Old Bailey Proceedings.
18th September 1848
Reference Number: t18480918

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error
Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
18th September 1848
Reference Numberf18480918

Related Material






Taken in Short-hand





33, Southampton-street, Strand.







On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,



The City of London,





Held on Monday, September 18th, 1848, and following Days.

Before the Right Hon. JOHN KINNERSLEY HOOPER, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; Sir William Erle, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir Thomas Joshua Platt, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir Edward Vaughan Williams, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir John Key, Bart.; Charles Farebrother, Esq.; William Taylor Copeland, Esq., M. P.; Sir John Pirie, Bart.; and Michael Gibbs, Esq., Aldermen of the said City: the Rt. Hon. Charles Ewan Law, M. P., Recorder of the said City: Thomas Challis, Esq.; Thomas Sidney, Esq., M. P. Thomas Quested Finnis, Esq., Aldermen of the said City: John Mirehouse, Esq., Common-Serjeant of the said City; and Edward Bullock, Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and Gaol Delivery of Newgate holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.

WILLIAM CUBITT, Esq., M. P., and CHARLES HILL , Esq., Sheriffs.

THOMAS FRANCE, Esq., and DAVID WILLAMS WISE, Esq., Under-Sheriffs.


First Jury.

Stephen Watson

William. Atkins

Joseph Watson

Edward Pratt

John Burton

Charles Paulet

Henry Nathan

Thomas Baughan

John Offer

Charles Rotherbam

Henry Charles Rattenbury

Alexander Grant

Second Jury.

Charles Brooke

Thomas Price

John Pickworth

John King

Frederick Bond

Edward James Peacock

John Jackson

Charles Ritchie

John Reed

Watson Burrows

John Benthall

Thomas Mills

Third Jury.

William Albert

Richard Olliver

Charles Ogle

Alfred Naish

Frederick Richards

Samuel Mullett

Alexander Wilson

Joseph Peppercorn

Joseph Relph

Charles Burdett

John Atterbury

Thomas Richard Press

Fourth Jury.

Thomas Paine

John Ryan

William Pembrooke

James Mardock Warterhouse Morris

George Robinson

Samuel Brewster Parker

Richard Randle

Henry Nichols

William Meres Newton

Edward Stanton Meyrick

William Smith

John Ridge

Fifth Jury.

Thomas Henry Bowditch

James Olivier

Henry John Owen

John Page

Joseph Orpwood

Thomas Parkinson

William Adamson

John Smith

John Buxton

Edward Harding

William Phillips

Edward Dyer

Sixth Jury.

Richard Waterman Newsham

Diggory Reed

John Mann

James Smith

John Prosser

Adam Murgatroyd

Charles Mahew

James Potter

John Robertson

Charles Bart

Joel Spiller

Thomas Redpath

Seventh Jury.

Charles Brooks

John Pickworth

John King

John Jackson

John Reed

Watson Burrow

John Benthill

Thomas Mills

Frederick Bond

John Ryan

Edward Stanton Merrick

Diggory Reed

Eighth Jury.

Thomas Payne

John Ryan

James Murdock Waterhouse Morris

Edward Ranson

George Robinson

Samuel P. Parker

Ricbard Randall

William Mears Newton

Edward Stanton Merrick

William Smith

John Ridge

William Peacock



A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—Two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—An obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.


OLD COURT.—Monday, September 18th, 1848.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald. GIBBS; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; and Mr. Ald. SIDNEY.

Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2069
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

2069. ARTHUR BLACK was indicted for unlawfully threstening to publish a libel, with intent to extort money from Edward Blackett Beaumont; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 32.— To enter into his own recognisances in 200l. to appear and receive Judgment when called upon.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2070
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceMiscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

2070. EBENEZER TEARLE , for a forcible entry and a riot.

MESSRS. BODKIN and HUDDLESTON conducted the Prosecution.

ANN MOTT . I am the wife of Charles Mott, a confectioner. In July last I was placed in charge of No. 5, Goldhawk Cottages, Shepherd's-bush—on 22nd Aug., about half-past three o'clock, I heard a knocking at the door, went to the window, and saw four or five men getting over the front railings—I heard others breaking the kitchen-window—I was very much alarmed, and locked the street-door, and locked myself and child in the dining-room—I opened the window and called "Police!" five or six times——the men got in; I heard them breaking the doors open, and the staircase-mndow—they hammered at the door where I was—I begged them not to break it—I opened it; they took the keys from behind the door, and said they had got them and would keep them—Tearle seemed to have the command—he told the others I was to go out directly—one of them took hold of my arm, and said he must very politely hand me into the street—I went out.

THOMAS WALKER . I am a gardener, of Kensington. On 22nd Aug. Tearle came to the Black Lion—he spoke to several cabmen there, and said he was going to break into a house—eight men and bis lawyer, who had come in an omnibus, followed him—I went behind—they stopped at the Mail Coach, and then went on to the house—Tearle got over the gate, broke the kitchen-window with his stick, and got in—they all followed him—one of them had a chisel or crowbar—I told Mr. Wells.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How long were you there? A. Not five minutes—Tearle gave them beer—Mr. Wells has paid me four half-crowns for my attendance.

WILLIAM HARMES . I am a cab man. On 22nd Aug. I was in the Black

Horse—Tearle came in, and hired me and seven others—we all went to the Mail Coach, and had some drink and a smoke—he paid for it—a gentleman, who Tearle said was his lawyer, came in an omnihus—we went to the house—Tearle broke the window with his stick, broke the shutters, and we got is—they wrenched the door open—I saw a crowbar—the lawyer knocked at the door where the woman was, and asked her to open it—she refused, but afterwards did so, and we went in—I received 5s.

Cross-examined. Q. What has Mr. Wells given you? A, Only two days' expenses.

MR. WELLS. I am the freeholder of this house—it was to let in June and Tearle proposed to take it—the rent was 60l.—I agreed to take 50l.—he brought this paper, ready written—I signed it on the 7th July—the fixtures were to be scheduled and attached to it—I considered it was not finally settled until I had inquired of the references—Mr. Tozer told me something, and I abandoned all notion of taking Tearle as a tenant—on 24th July I was on the premises, bottling some wine—Tearle came, went up stairs, threw down a handkerchief on the carpet, left it there, locked the door, and said, "I have taken possession"—there was 70l. worth of furniture there—I said I was not satisfied, and wanted further references—I said I had fond that he was a swindler and everything that was bad—he said that had nothing to do with it, he had got possession, and I had signed the agreement—he went out, and returned in half an hour, with a man named Chopping and consulted with him—they left, and 1 went to my agent's—as I refund, Tearle was at a public-house near—I went to the house—Tearle came with Chopping and Williams—I would not let Williams in—they were very tipsy—they asked for some wine, I gave them some—I left the house in Mrs. Mott's charge—I afterwards went, and found the kitchen window broken, a caiman was sitting on the balcony railing, and others lying on the drawing-room floor—I did not go in, but went to my solicitor—I afterwards found the locks broken, the keys gone, a quantity of stones and a hammer lying in the drawing-room, and some stakes from the trees in the garden—5l. damage was done, and my tenants on each side were in a state of alarm.

Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. I keep a beer-shop—the house is in Hammersmith parish—he referred me to a Mr. Cadman, of Bayswatetr and Mr. Chappel—Mr. Tozer is a law agent—I did not give Tearle up the key of the street-door—I gave him a key to get rid of him; I believe I said is was the key of the street-door—he then left—I did not ask him to have the wine to complete the bargain—I have made no offer of compromise—13l. was to be paid for some furniture—it was never tendered to me.

GUILTY . Aged 29.— To enter into recognizances to appear and receive Judgment when called upon.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 18th, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq., and the Fifth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2071
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2071. JOHN LOONAR , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 4s. 6d.; the goods of Thomas Poorah, from his person; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2072
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

2072. GAFFEE JONES , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Robert William Kinnaird and others, and stealing 1 20l. Bank-note, and 20 sovereigns, and other moneys, their property; to which he pleaded

GUILTY. Aged 22.— Judgment Respited.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2073
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2073. WILLIAM BERRY , stealing 9lbs. of silk, and 8 gross of gimp, value 9l. 10s. 6d.; the goods of Hugh Jones, his master.

HUGH JONES . I am a silk fringe-manufacturer, in Red Cross-square. The prisoner was in my employ to make up fringes—on 16th or 17th Aug., I delivered him nine pounds of silk, eight gross of gimp, and some bobbins, to make up into fringes at his own place, and to return it in the course of the following week—he did not come—I did not see him till he was in custody, about 4th or 5th Sept.—I have not seen the materials since.

GEORGE TEAKLE (police-sergeant, H 8). I took the prisoner in Much Park-street, Coventry—I told him I wanted him to go to London with me about that affair—he said, "Very well; I must go with you."

WILLIAM BAIRD . I live in Collingwood-street, Bethnal-green. The prisoner lodged with me—he absconded on Wednesday or Thursday, the 18th or 19th Aug.

Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Did he pay you your rent? A. No.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2074
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2074. WILLIAM ATKINS and HENRY KING , breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Susannah Durman, and stealing 1 looking-glass, value 40s.; her goods.

THOMAS DURMAN . I live with my mother, Susannah Durman, at the Oval, Hackney-road. On Saturday morning, 19th Aug., a little before eight o'clock, I saw the looking-glass safe on the mantel-piece in the front parlour—the bottom sash of the window was down, but not fastened—the top sash was a little down—this is the glass—it is my mother's, who is a widow.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. When did you miss it? A. About half-past eight o'clock in the evening.

JOHN BATES . I live at No. 11, in the Oval, at Hackney, opposite Mrs. Durman's. About eight o'clock in the morning of 19th Aug., I was in. our front parlour, and saw the prisoners walk up to Mrs. Durman's window—they looked in, and pushed it up from the bottom, then walked away and returned—Atkins got in and handed the looking-glass out to King, who ran off towards Hackney-road, and Atkins ran the other way.

Cross-examined. Q. Was your window open? A. No—I saw them through the glass—I was not near enough to the window for them to see me—I did not know them—King had a blue frock-coat with a velvet collar, and drab trowscrs—Atkins was dressed as a bricklayer, all in drab—he wore a cap—I saw them again at the Police-court—the policeman called and told me they were there.

EBENEZER ORRIS DURMAN . I am a son of Susannah Durman; I live with her. On 19th Aug., about eight o'clock, I missed the glass, and went out—a little boy was bringing it back.

WILLIAM FOY (police-sergcant, N 5). I took Atkins—I told him it was for stealing a glass—he said he knew nothing about it.

JAMES WOOD (policeman, N 277). I took King—I told him it was for stealing a glass—he said he knew nothing about it.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2075
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2075. CAROLINE BROWN , stealing 1 breast-pin, value 2s., 6d.; the goods of Stephen Stacy, from his person.

STEPHEN STACY . On 26th Aug., between nine and ten o'clock in the evening, the prisoner stopped me near York-gate, Regent's-park, and asked me if I was good-natured—I made no answer—she put her arms round me and then said, "Here comes a policeman"—she went off in haste—I missed my pin, turned back and caught her talking to another man on the foot-path, about—100 yards off—I accused her of taking my pin—she said what pin?"—I said, "A sort of half-mourning pin, and if you don't give it to me I shall give you in charge"—she said, "Stop a bit," and took off her bonnes.—in the back bow of it I saw my pin—I took it out, and said, "I have a great mind to give you in charge for fear you should go and rob some other man"—she doubled her fists and gave me three blows on the side of my head—this is my pin—no one else was near me when I lost it—I followed her—the policeman came up and took her.

JOHN SETH ALLEN (policeman, A 350). I took the prisoner.

GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2076
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2076. JOHN WARD , was indicted for embezzlement.

GEORGE HILLS . I am a publican of Hillingdon. The prisoner was in my service to take out beer, receive money, and account for it—he did not account to me for 1s. 2d. received from Mr. Dainty on 24th July, nor 1s. 2d. on 31st July, nor 1s. 2d. on 7th Aug.

MARY ANN DAINTY . I am the wife of John Dainty. He deals with Mr. Hills for beer—on 24th July, I paid the prisoner 1s. 2d., on 31st 1s. 2d. and on 7th Aug. 1s. 2d., for his master.

RICHARD ROADKNIGHT (police-sergeant, T 11). I took the prisoner—he said he had received the money, and had offered his master part of it, and he would not take it.

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, September 19th, 1848.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2077
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2077. THOMAS BROOKS , was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.


NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 19th, 1848.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2078
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2078. WILLIAM GAY , stealing 6 cruets, and other articles, value 1s. 3d.; the goods of Abraham Davis, his master; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2079
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2079. JOHN STEPHENSON , stealing 17 books, value 23s.; the goods of Edward Hogg Fry; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined One Week .

(The prosecutor stated that the prisoner was in a state of the greatest poverty.)

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2080
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2080. ALFRED TAYLOR , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s.; the goods of William Franks, from his person; having been before convicted; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2081
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2081. ELIZABETH SANS , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MRSSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH JONES . I am in the service of Mr. Lambert, of Devonshire-street, Portland-place. On 6th July the prisoner came for 2d. worth of lint, and gave me a shilling—I told her I had only a 4d.-piece, and two 1d.-pieces, and she said she would take 6d. worth—I gave her the sixpence, and she went away—I took the shilling directly to Mr. Lambert, and it was found to be bad—I put it into a little box, on a shelf, apart from all other money—it remained there till the 20th, when the prisoner came again—my master attended to her—I came into the shop, and remembered her at once; she was given into custody—I marked the shilling, which I took out of the box, and gave it to the policeman—this is it (produced).

HENRY WILLIAM LAMBERT . I am the master of Jones. On 6th July she brought me a bad shilling—I gave it her back—on the evening of 20th July the prisoner came, and asked for the smallest quantity of essence of pepper-mint that could be made—I told her it was 4d.—she gave me a bad shilling—I noticed that it was bad, and asked if she had smaller change—she said she had no more money—I said I would get change—I directed my servant to get a policeman—I put the shilling into my pocket—I asked the prisoner where she lived—she said that was nothing to me—I said it was, and she had been at my house before, and passed bad money—she denied it—I called the servant in, and said she had passed a bad shilling to her—she said, "You did not tell me it was a bad one"—I gave her into custody, marked the shilling, and gave it to the officer.

CHARLES CHAMBERLAIN (policeman, D 96). I was called to Mr. Lambert's, and found in the prisoner's hand a shilling, a sixpence, and three halfpence, all good.

CALEB EDWARD POWELL . I am solicitor to the Mint. These shillings are both counterfeit.

GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Five Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2082
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2082. JOHN CASEY , was indicted for a like offence.

CAROLINE CHARLOTTE ROSS . I am the wife of William Charles Ross, a tobacconist, of Marylebone. On the morning of 2nd Sept the prisoner came for a quarter of an ounce of common shag-tobacco—it came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me a 4d.-piece—I gave him change, and he went away—my husband came, and took the 4d.-piece—he found it was bad—he then pursued the prisoner, and brought him back.

WILLIAM CHARLES ROSS . I was standing at the parlour-door when the prisoner came—I saw my wife serve him—when he went out I took the 4d.-Piece from my wife, pursued the prisoner, and took him about thirty yards off—I asked if he had any more 4d.-pieces—he said, "No"—I took him back, searched him, and found in his waistcoat-pocket another 4d.-piece—I marked them, and gave them and the prisoner to the policeman.

WILLIAM WEST (policeman, D 132). I went to Mr. Ross's, and took the prisoner into custody—I found on him a knife, a tobacco-box, full of tobacco, and two pieces of tobacco, in different papers—these are the two 4d.-pieces.

CALER EDWARD POWELL . These are both counterfeit, and cast in the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I picked them both up that morning, as I was going from breakfast.

GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Six Months .

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2083
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2083. JOHN MALONEY , was indicted for a like offence.

EMMA CLEOBURY . I am servant to Mr. Durman, a tobacconist. On 27th Aug. the prisoner came to the shop—my mistress served him with 1 1/2 d. worth of tobacco—he put down a shilling—I gave him the change, and put the shilling into the till, where there was only a 4d.-piece—my mistress afterwards showed the shilling to me—it was bad—it was again put into the till, then taken out, wrapped in paper, and put on the mantel-piece—the prisoner came again in the evening for two cheroots, and produced a had half-crown—I suspected it was bad—I took it to the public-house—it turned out to be bad—I took it back, and told the prisoner that it was the second time he had offered bad money that day—he said he had never been in the shop before—he went away, and left the half-crown—my mistress went after him, and he was brought back with an officer—I gave the half-crown to the officer.

SARAH DURMAN . I was in the shop on 27th Aug. I saw the prisoner give Cleobury a shilling—I served him with half an ounce of tobacco—I am sure he is the man—there was no other silver in the till I but a 4d.-piece—I took the shilling out of the till in about half an hour afterwards—I found it was bad—no one had been in the shop in the mean time, and no other money had been put into the till—I was there when the prisoner came the second time, and gave Cleobury a half-crown—she went out with it, came back, and told him it was the second time that day he had given her bad money—he said he was never in the shop in his life—he then left, and I followed and gave him into custody.

JAMES COKER (policeman, D 288). I took the prisoner, and receives this half-crown and shilling.

CALEB EDWARD POWELC . These are both counterfeit.

Prisoner's Defence. I had never been in the shop in my life before I handed the half-crown; I did not know it was bad.

GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2084
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2084. HENRY THOMAS , was indicted for a like offence.

JOHN SMITH . I was waiter at Mr. Stevens' booth, at Barnet races, On 30th Aug. the prisoner came for 2d. worth of gin—he gave me a half-crown, which I gave to my mistress—she found it was bad, and passed it to Carey; he passed it to me—it was never out of my sight—the officer came up and took the prisoner.

MARY ANN STEVRNS . I am the wife of Charles Stevens—he had a booth on Barnet Race-course-—the prisoner came to my bar—I received from Smith a bad half-crown, which I gave to Carey to look at—he gave it me back, and 1 gave it back to Smith, who gave it to the prisoner—he said if I did not like it he would give me another—he gave me a second bad one—I passed it to Smith, who gave it back to the prisoner, and he gave him a good one—the policeman came up and took him.

GEORGE CAREY . I was attending as a waiter at Mr. Stevens' booth, I remember the half-crown being given to Smith—he gave it to my mistress—she gave it to me—I gave her the same half-crown back, and likewise a second half-crown.

THOMAS BRETT (policeman. S 141). I was near the booth in plain clothes—I took the prisoner, and found two half-crowns in his hand—in going to the—

station he said he got them in change for a half-sovereign in Finchley-road—coming along the road he pointed out the King of Prussia public-house—an old man came out there—I asked him if that was the man he took them of—he said he thought so—I asked the landlord if he knew anything of the prisoner—he said, "No"—I found two good shillings and some coppers on him.

CALEB EDWARD POWELL . These half-crowns are both counterfeit, and cast in the same mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware they were bad.

GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2085
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2085. ELLEN KENNEDY , stealing two blankets, value 15s., and 2 sheets, 10s., the goods of Edward Fuller, her master.

EDWARD FULLER . I am a solicitor, in Hatton-garden. The prisoner was employed by me as charwoman—I have missed two blankets and two sheets—these are them.

JOSEPH WOLSTENHOLME . I am a pawnbroker. I took in these blankets and sheets of the prisoner on 3rd June.

ALEXANDER TURNER (policeman, G 56). I took the prisoner.

Prisoner. I was in great distress; I meant to return these as soon as I could.

GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Four Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2086
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

2086. JAMES AVIS and JOSEPH ADAMS , stealing 1 sack, and 4 bushels of oats, chaff, and beans, value 4s.; the goods of John Pickering Peacock, the master of Avis; to which

AVIS pleaded GUILTY . Aged 32.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Three Months.

MR. PARNELL conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY BARNES (policeman, K 256). I was employed to watch at the Bell and Mackrell, in Mile End-road—at half-past six o'clock in the morning, on 31st Aug. I saw the prosecutor's wagon; the two prisoners were standing in close conversation by the side of it—Avis then got on the shft, put his arm across the copse, took an empty sack from a full one,. and threw the full one down—he got down, took it up, and both the prisoners went into the shed—the bolt of the shed was out, and Adams could not pull the door quite close—I went up and opened it—the prisoners were untieing the sack—there was no one else in the shed—Adams saw me—he knew me very well, and he rushed out, I caught him by the collar, and never let him go—he said he only brought it in here to mix it up—I examined the contents of the sack, and it was chaff, beans, and oats, already mixed—there were thirteen sacks, some full, and some half-full—some were marked,——I took Adams to the station—he said, "The landlords ought to be brought here as well as us, for they make us pay such a heavy rent we are obliged to thieve; if we did not thieve we should not be able to pay our rent; I have jo pay 10s. a week"—this is the sack, and a sample of the mixture—I went tack to the wagon, and found in it another full sack, and a sack half-full was by the trough where they were feeding the horses.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Who was present when Adams said what he paid? A. The acting inspector and Smith the officer—I thought what Adams said about paying 105. a week was the truth.

JOHN PICKERING PEACOCK . I am a farmer, and live at Longbridge farm, at Barking—Avis was in my employ—I directed the officers to watch.—I can swear the sack is mine, and the mixture is like mine—Avis was not to take out more than one sack of mixture, and the nose-bags full.

Cross-examined. Q. How many horses were in the wagon? A. For they went out sometimes three times a week, and sometimes twice.

WILLIAM SMITH (policeman, K 220). I was with the officer Parker, and saw what he has stated.

ADAMS— GUILTY , and received a good character. Aged 27.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2087
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2087. GEORGE CLARK , stealing 1 pad and 125 herrings, value 7s. 6d.; the goods of Thomas Young.

THOMAS YOUNG . I am a dealer, and live at Romford. On 30th Aug, about nine o'clock, I purchased at Billingsgate a pad of herrings—I put it in my cart—I lost it in about four minutes—I cannot swear to the herrings—the pad is similar to the one I purchased.

CHARLES FISHER . I went after the prisoner—I stopped him on Tower-hill, with this pad of herrings on his shoulder—I asked him to come back with me—he said he would, but when we got to a tree he clung to it, and would not go with me—when the policeman came he ran, and left the pad of herrings with me—I believe it to be the same basket that was in the prosecutor's cart.

Prisoner's Defence. There are hundreds of baskets alike; on the Tuesday evening I went to my mother's; I asked her for money to go to market; I got 7s. 6d. of her; I went to market the next day and bought a pad of herrings of Mr. Huggins, and this man came and said I stole them; I said no, I bought them and paid for them.

MARIA RICHARDSON . My husband works at a tallow-chandler's—the prisoner is my son by my first husband—he came to me on Tuesday night, and asked if I would lend him some money—I told him I had none, and I went and pawned my husband's coat for 8s. and lent him 7s. 6d.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2088
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2088. JOHN SMYE was indicted for embezzlement.

JAMES SHERMUR . I am a boot-maker, and live in St., George's-in-the-East—the prisoner was my apprentice. On 26th Aug. he came to my bed-room before I was up—he said he had sold a pair of boots for 22s., and asked me if that would do—I asked if the man were gone—he said, "Yes"—that caused some suspicion—I tried to find the party who had bought the boots, but could not.

FREDERICK ELLIS HARRIS . I am apprentice to Mr. Sherman. I saw a gentleman come on 26th Aug. and buy a pair of boots for 24s.—he gave the prisoner a sovereign and a half-sovereign—the prisoner went out and get change for the half-sovereign—he said he should give his master 22s., and he went up to him—I did not see what change he gave the gentleman.

ELLEN WARREN . I am sen-ant to the prosecutor. I saw the gentleman hand the prisoner some money—I do not know how much—he went out and got change, and then went to his master.

JOSEPH BLACKLEY (policeman, H 57). I took the prisoner into custody—he asked me what I was going to take him for, and then he said directly, "I know it is for selling a pair of boots for 24s., and keeping 2s. of it.

Prisoner's Defence. The man asked me the price; I said 24s.; he said "I will give you 22s.," and I said, "That will do;" I got change, and took 22s. to my master; he said the boots might be sold for 1l.

JAMES SHERMUR re-examined. I do not allow the prisoner to sell anything out of my shop without telling me or the foreman—he ought to have

come to me before the boots were sold—there was a pair of boots that was damaged, and I said they might be sold for 1l., but not this pair.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2089
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2089. JAMES SMITH , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 3s. 6d.; the goods of Alexander Aberdeen, from his person.

ALEXANDER ABERDEEN . I am a seaman. On 25th Aug., about half-past two o'clock in the day, I was going along Tower-hill—there was a man selling paste to make brass look lite silver—I looked at it, and felt a tug at my pocket—I did not miss my handkerchief, but just as I was going away I was told something—I went after the prisoner, and he hove my handkerchief aside the Tower rails—I took it up and gave it to the policeman—this is it.

(The prisoner's sister gave him a good character.)

GUILTY . †— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2090
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2090. JOSIAH ETHERIDGE , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s. 6d.; tie goods of Octavius Woodthorpe Bousfield, from his person; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2091
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2091. PHILIP RATCHFORD , stealing a machine for sweeping chim-neys, value 30s.; the goods of James Newell; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Three Months.

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, September 20th, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the Third Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2092
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2092. MARIA MURRAY , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edward Gribbin, and stealing therein 1 pair of boots, I candlestick, and 4lbs. weight of flour, value 10s.; His property; to which, she pleaded

GUILTY . † Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.

Before Mr. Justice Erle.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2093
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2093. THEODORE PIEDFORT , for a rape on Rosa Harris.

GUILTY . Aged 41.— Transported for Twenty Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2094
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2094. WILLIAM STENNETT , stealing a post letter, containing 1 half-sovereign, 2 fourpenny pieces, and 4 postage stamps; the property of the Postmaster General; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 56.— Transported for Ten Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2095
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > fine; Miscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

2095. JOHN SHAW was indicted for unlawfully making a seditious speech, and for attending an unlawful assembly.


conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES WHITE . I am a short-hand writer On Friday evening, 28th July I was at a meeting, in the Theatre, in Milton-street, City—I got there about a quarter to eight o'clock—the defendant was appointed chairman of the meeting—there were then about 500 persons present—they increased to upwards of 1000 in the course of the evening—they were composed principally

of the poorer classes, mechanics, principally Irish—the chairman and speakers addressed the meeting from the stage—I took notes of the defend ant's speech—(reads)—" Friends, you have placed me in rather a responsible situation to-night; however, I obey the call with alacrity, and with pleasure to myself, and I trust any despotic conduct of mine, or on my part to-night ill be excused by you, because I believe you have all assembled here for the same good and religious purpose that I have been induced to attend here for I will just read you the bill calling this meeting. I believe the meeting was only agreed on to-day; I was not privy to any of the arrangements, and therefore, however I may express my ignorance of the arrangements that are made by the conductors, I trust you will excuse it on the score of ignorance. It is as follows, 'Is Ireland up V That is a most important question to me, 'A great public meeting will be held to-night, Friday, July 28th, at the Milton-street Theatre, Cripplegate, to take into consideration the momeatous crisis in Ireland. Chair taken at eight o'clock. Several talented patriots will address the meeting. Englishmen, Irishmen, attend! attend Admis-sion, pit and gallery, one penny; platform and boxes, twopence.' I believe it is not the intention of the conveners of this meeting to shut any poor man out, be he Englishman or Irishman, for want of the means; therefore if there are any of those persons outside, I trust, as your chairman here to-night, that the managers of this meeting will announce the same to them, and give free admission to every poor man. (Applause.) My friends, let the police all com in—let the walking telegraphs come in if they please—let the living telegraphs, that are placed over you to watch over your every act, come—make room for them all if you can convert them, if there is the slightest probability of making honest men of them at all, let them all in: however, I despair of any great utility arising from any such task as that. My friends, I was about to say, I rejoice to think, and I verily believe it, that Ireland is up! (Cheers.) Not-withstanding the garbled reports that we receive continually day by day, and every express that arrives, in order to delude and deceive the people of this country, I believe sincerely that Ireland is up, (cheers,) and I believe that Ireland will do its duty to itself. The time has now arrived when it is too late to mince the matter; the time has now arrived that both Englishmen and Irishmen should be up to do their duty. (Cheers.) I will tell you a little bit of intelligence that was conveyed to me about half an hour ago, intelligence that I deeply deplore; our worthy, patriotic, straightforward, indomitable friend Patrick O'Higgins, is apprehended on a charge of high treason, (Groans). Now, there is no question in my mind, that every other honest and patriotic fellow, both in England and in Ireland, will be pounced upon by the same ruthless hands, as soon as there is an opportunity. My friends, Patrick O'Higgins is in durance vile, I have every reason to believe; and as soon as ever the government are prepared to arrest your indomitable champion, Smith O'Brien, they will serve him precisely the same. However, I am glad to think they have not got him yet; (cheers;) and I do hope they will have something to do to take him too. While Smith O'Brien is surrounded by 100,000 brave Irish hearts, the government will have something to do to shop him. They say that he carries a brace of pistols with him Now, these things perhaps ought not to be indulged in by a public meeting like this; but I sincerely hope to God that such is the fact, and the first dirty fingers, be it a policeman in his own uniform or otherwise, that lays a hand upon Smith O'Brien, or any other man who dares to viadicate the rights of his country, I trust that—(cheers)—I dare scarcely trust myself for our respected friends here, on my right and on my left, are sent here for

the purpose of performing a professional duty; and I do hope and trust you will excuse them in the performance of their duty;"—that alluded to myself and Mr. Bennett, who accompanied me—" they are but men, and they must perform that duty for which they are sent here, faithfully, and in accordance with the employ under which they labour. Is Ireland up? (Cries of 'Yes.') I should like to answer that in a very Irish method practised by this country, by patting another question—Is England up? (' No, no; it soon will.') I trust we are up; at all events, my friends, we are up this night, to listen and be advised by those gentlemen who will presently address you. This is a very critical period of our history, both for England and for Ireland. I believe, and I do hope and trust, that we are up in this way, that we shall calmly discuss the subjects that may from time to time be brought before us, and that when this meeting concludes, that we will give no possible pretext to the common foe to pounce upon any man; no processions, no row, or anything of that sort publicly made, so as to enable them to lay hold of you and your friends to-night; but every one will leave this Theatre, and he will pursue his own quiet and calm way on again, and reflect on what he has heard. I hope, nevertheless, that you will agree with the sentiments that will be uttered here to-night. I do not believe that there is one man that will address you to-night, but are your best friends; consequently, they will give you no bad advice: but, at the same time, I think it is the duty of every man here to register a vow in heaven, that he will never rest contented till both England and Ireland are in possession of their rights. (Cheers.) I think, my friends, that it is a duty incumbent upon all; and it is of no use for Mr. John O'Connell, or any other sham patriot, threatening me, or Irishmen, or Englishmen either; that if the people do not agree with his advice, and will not act upon it, he will walk his body away, and take his father's bones with, him. (Cries of, 'Let him go, in God's name.') If he should, my friends, carry his threats into execution, I do not think it will be any great loss to his country at all. (Cheers.) My friends, I shall presently introduce Mr. Dwaine to your notice, to move the first resolution. (Cries of,' Let the dead rest!') In reply to that, I am sure I have not the slightest disposition to disturb the bones of Daniel O'Connell, or any other dead man; but I think when we are threatened by the man who has taken that illustrious man's place in the affections of Ireland, when he threatens to deprive us of such a valuable blessing as that, namely, the bones of the late Daniel O'Connell, I think we ought to pass ouropinions on his advice and conduct. I will not address you at any further length to-night, my friends; but I have this request to make, that those gentlemen who are inconvenienced towards the entrance of the pit, will be allowed to move on here." Dwaine, Collins, and Wad-dington spoke subsequently; and directly after Waddington, the defendant spoke—(reads)—"Friends, the veteran Waddington has alluded to petitioning I believe; and I merely mention this fact to put this meeting to rights, that it is not the intention to petition that House any more—I believe so. The next petition (and this is open and advised speaking, recollect) I hope and trust that you will present, every man will be prepared with his own petition. (Great applause.) I hare no patience with these set of rapscallions. See how the Irish nation was treated last Saturday, when Lord John Russell, in reply to one of the noble and bold fellows; (and there are very few of them indeed that dare stand before that House, and advocate the rights of the poor man;) mark how significantly and how derisively Lord John Russell handed over to Feargus O'Connor the oath of allegiance. I can have no allegiance for any such abuses. I am no M. P. I never took the oath of alleginance, and I declare to you, (and it is in the presence of the reporters,)

now, if I was to be sacrificed this very night, I am an alien to any such damas. able abuse. (Cheers.) I hold no allegiance to either Queen, Lords, a Commons that would do these things. I cannot owe allegiance to any such damnable doings as these! When I recollect that there are upwards of a million of my fellow-beings, called Irish, that have been treated worse then the pigs that they fatten for English eating—I say, when this comes to my knowledge, and I have no reason to doubt it, because, according to the very best statisticians, there are upwards of a million who, in sixteen months, hare been sent to untimely graves by such misery, I can hold no allegiance to such damnable doings! We have no intention to petition; it is our intention to make known our wishes to that government, and if they are still regardless of our feelings and wishes with reference to the Irish nation and people, let them drive the Irish people to rebellion, as they are doing; let the blood fall upon their own heads. The English people are not accountable for this The English Chartists have been, from time to time, warning well the govern-ment, all the time that they have been trampling upon the liberties, of what the ultimate consequences must be; and I do hope and trust—(and here is open and advised speaking again)—I hope and trust that Irishmen will at: be satisfied, and that Englishmen will also fraternize with them; not going for a simple repeal of the union, but that they will never rest satisfied until they cry out with one thundering voice, 'Republic for ever!' (Great applause and waiving of hats.) Gentlemen, I am not one of the maudlin royal loyal repealers. I do not wish the Queen to visit Ireland, and yet I would not wish to see a hair of her head injured. I have no personal animosity to the Queen; but I declare myself now, and in tit presence of this meeting that—would to God the noble and valiant field-marshal, her husband, was here to hear me, I should to his teeth, and to Lord John Russell's too, express my unqualified opinion in this way—that the sooner we throw off these trammels the better; I am a Republics (Cheers.) My friends, we can bear this no longer; and would to God that every Englishman and Irishman would shake hands, as has been recommended—(cries of 'We will')—every man be armed to the teeth, I say, sooner than submit to this abominable oppression and misrule. I am not recommending you to arm, decidedly not; I want you to arm morally, and be prepared to combat and battle your own opinions against their abuses; and depend upon it, as was very justly observed by Mr. Dwaine, as soon as ever they see you prepared, they will grant you both the Repeal and the Charter, and they cannot help themselves. (Cheers.) My friends, I will just read you the resolution that is expressive of the opinions of this meeting"—(there was a slight disturbance, and a person was turned out of the meeting)—"I conjure you all, both Englishmen and Irishmen, for your own sates, for the sake of the noble and glorious cause in which you are all engages, that no tumult will take place. I tell you that there are spies amongst you, and you must expect to meet with them. Let them alone, treat them with that disdain which they deserve for their filthy and their abominable employment; treat them with that scorn that their servile, degrading services deserve at your hands. Be as temperate and as calm as you can under the circumstances; because, I can assure you, that the Government have taken such precautions; the City authorities, also, they are in constant communi-cation; and I alluded before to the living telegraphs, the working telegraphs, that are at the corner of this street, and perhaps at the corner of every street and are taking to the proper quarter every sentence that may be uttered from time to time; but do not lay yourselves open to any such charge as creating?. riot; you will involve yourselves, depend upon it, and every man him

upon this platform, if you unwisely come in contact with the police; tolerate their presence, for they are prepared for you. I have been informed to-night that they have got a new sort of sword, and these are the means, depend upon it, that they will put you, a defenceless, unarmed people, down with, if you unwisely come in contact with them. My friends, I will just read you the resolution; it is as follows:—'Resolved—That the alarming state of Ireland, at the present crisis, demands the strictest investigation of all true philanthropists and well—wishers to the British empire; and this meeting comes to the conclusion, that continuous misrule on the part of Great Britain has produced these disastrous results.' My friends, all of you, who are of that opinion, signify the same by holding up both hands.—Carried unanimously."

Q. Did other persons speak afterwards? A. Yes; the man who was turned out of the meeting, named Nash, spoke next; and then Bezer, O'Sullivan, and Wilson—Nash's speech was in allusion to his being ejected from the meeting—I was there from a quarter to eight till twenty minutes to eleren o'clock, I should think.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You have no doubt that is a correct note of what took place? A. I believe it to be strictly and literally correct—I went to the platform, that was the highest price; I paid 2d.—no objection was made to the receipt of the money—I told the party at the door who I was, and that I came for the purpose of taking down all that passed, as a gentleman employed by Government; that was not announced to the meeting at any time, otherwise than it may have been by Mr. Shaw—there were a great many respectable people in the boxes—they were filled with ladies and gentlemen; there were not many ladies; there were well-dressed persons—I was otherwise engaged, and did not see whether the boxes applauded Shaw's speech—it was in all parts of the house—I presume it came from the respectable portion assembled in the boxes—I saw ladies in the pit waring their handkerchiefs—I was close to the pit—I have not been at large meetings at Exeterhall; I have been at other public meetings—they were not charged to be seditious or illegal meetings—the indications of applause to Shaw's speech were precisely as I have read them—I have been present many tines when the defendant has spoken at other meetings—I can hardly tell at how many I heard him speak, but about every other day during the whole time the Convention sat—I think the only occasion on which I took a speech of his was one night at John-street, at the Convention; but it was not a Convention-meeting—when the attempt was made to eject Nash, Shaw did all in his power to prevent the meeting from showing dissatisfaction and ejecting him—I have his words.

(The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that the witness could not give evidence of anything that the defendant had said prior to this meeting to prevent a breach of the peace. Mr. Parry called the attention of the Court to the case of Home Tooke, in which similar evidence was given. The COURT decided that specific facts of good conduct were not evidence that specific acts of guilt were not true.)

Q. You have been present at other meetings which the defendant was at; did you see anybody excluded from the meeting? A. No; there appeared to be no secresy whatever in any of the proceedings—Shaw said, "I trust that any despotic conduct of mine, or on my part, to-night, will be excused by you"—he did not say, "I trust that any despotic conduct of mine, as chairman, in order to quell a tumult or disturbance, will be excused by you"—I have literally what he said.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Was the defendant Chairman when Willses spoke? A. Yes; this is what Wilson said—(reads)—" Mr. Chairman and brother Chartists, I rise to support the present resolution, that we do assist the Irish in Ireland to the best of our abilities as far as we possibly can-at the same time I hope and trust that the Chartists of England will not lav so lose idle as the New York Herald anticipates that they will do so; that is for five as six weeks. In the event of Englishmen standing idle and looking on for five or six weeks, I believe that there would scarce be an Irishman or a Repealer left in Ireland. I hope and trust, Mr. Chairman and brother Chartists that it they really are up in Ireland, that we really too will be up in England—(chess)—I hope and trust that if to-morrow's news brings it authentic that they are up in Ireland, I hope and trust that there will be something like 50,000 to 100,003 meet on Sunday in some part of London—mind when I say I hope we will be up, I do not mean physically up, but I mean to say I hope we shall be morally up and doing, to assist our brethren in Ireland, so that we can keep the soldiers away from there. (Cheers.) Let us agitate, but let as keep good agitation up in England, and that is sufficient for us to do; if any thing suggest itself further, you will be best able to judge what is the new step to do. We know very well that on the 10th April we had no blows struck, and yet how panic-stricken the Government were; they wanted the whole of their disposable force in London: that was only a moral agitation, and that is all that we want now. You assembled 50,000 or 100,000 strong in Trafalgar-square, or in some other part near the House of Commons morally they are determined to sympathize and to assist your brethren in Ireland; then I say that Lord John Russell and the Whigs will not be able to spare one single soldier from England to go to Ireland. (Cheers.) You must show yourselves determinedly resolutely to assist the Irish in any struggle by any or every means at your command. It will not do, as I said before, to let the thing go on week after week, and waiting for this day's paper or the next day's paper, and to know whether this report is true or false; but as soon as you can ascertain the authenticity of the fact that they are up in In land, I say that we must be up in England. (Loud cheers.) I hope you will not lose sight of it, and that we shall not meet day after day merely to hear long speeches made, and to end in that, I hope not. I hope as Mr. Meagher and Mr. Smith O'Brien stated, that in Ireland speech-making now is all over; now is the time for action—now is the time to be up and doing, and if we are not up and doing now you may rest assured that our chains will be fixed far more tighter than ever they were. With these few observations I bid you a very good night, hoping and trusting you will look out for the earliest new when it makes its appearance tomorrow, and if there is anything of the kind in Ireland, that you will not forget on every man's holiday to have a grand holiday too."

MR. PARRY. Q. Did you hear the defendant caution the speakers as regards using inflammatory language? A. I have no recollection of anytthing of the kind—there are observations of the Chairman interspersed, which as very short—I can read them in one minute if necessary.

THOMAS COPE . I am publisher of the Times journal" On 28th July then were rumours in London of a rising in Ireland on the 27th, and also that the troops were disaffected and worsted.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 41.— Confined Two Years, fined £50, and to enter into has own recognizances in £100, and find Two Sureties of £30 each, to keep the Peace for Fire Years.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, September 20th, 1848.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2096
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2096. CHARLES KENT , stealing 1 coat value 4s.; the goods of william Chambers; having been before convicted; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2097
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2097. FRANCIS FREELAND , stealing 4 half-crown, and 3 shillings; the moneys of Thomas Wood his master; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . * Aged 15.— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2098
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2098. WILLIAM RUSSELL , stealing 1 Bath chap, value 3s.; the goods of William Batten; to which to pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined One Month.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2099
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2099. ANNA SMITH , stealing 1 handkerchief, 2 yards of cloth, I bracelet and other articles, value 3l. 18s.; the goods of Francie Harriett Eden, her mistess.

SARAH WRIGHT . I am housekeeper to Lord Auckland, at Kensington, The prisoner was Miss Francis Harriet Eden's; I swear to some of them—I saw this handkerchief on New Year's-day, 1847—I swear to this decker muslin handkerchief—this is Lord Auckland's miniature—I saw it in 1847—the prisoner left last Nov.

SUSANNA NEVILLE . The prisoner lodged with me—she left some boxes At my house last Nov., and gave me the keys—I showed them to the officer.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did you send for the officer? A. No—the prisoner lent me 50l.—when she went to prison I asked her if she wanted her money—she said, "No; if I do I will send for it"—she, afterwards sent for 40l.—her boxes were not broken open while at my house.

WILLIAM CROW . I am shopman to Mr. Greygoose, a pawnbroker. This bracelet was pledged with me on 10th Aug., by a female.

JOHN HAINES (police-inspector). I found this inkstand at the prisoner's lodging.

JOSATHAN WHICKER . I am one of the Detective-police. I took the prisoner, and found this property at Richmond, in a box, at Mrs. Neville's.

Cross-examined. Q. How did you happen to go there? A. From information from Mrs. Robinson, of Brixton.

(The prisoner received a good character.)


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2100
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2100. ANNA SMITH was again indicted for stealing 2 plates and 31 towels, value 32s.; the goods of Edward Smith, Earl of Derby.

CATHERINE TRIMBLE . I am housekeeper to Lord Derby; he is paralyzed. These towels and plates are his, and have a coronet and "D" on them—on 2nd Oct., Miss Eden came on a visit—the prisoner came with her as servant—I missed the things after she left.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Can you swear to these plates? A.—No; we had such—the mark has begun to be picked out of one towel—only identify these twelve—they have a private mark, two little dots on them—they were new last year—a Mrs. Fletcher lived at Lord Derby's before I went there.

SUSANNAH NEVILLE . The prisoner lodged at my house, 2, George-street Richmond—the boxes given to the officer were hers.

Cross-examined. Q. When did she leave them with you? A. When she went to Miss Eden's—they have been there more than three years—she late the keys with me—Mrs. Robinson visits me about once in three or four months—I believe she gave the information to the police—a person applied to me to give up the boxes—I said, by way of bringing the prisoner to me, that I could not deliver them until they were searched by the proper authorities, unless she gave me a receipt for the money due to me—the keys were kept in a looking-glass drawer, which was open—Mrs. Robinson and I only looked into the boxes once; that was about six weeks ago, because I had missed things—I have always had the same key, never a new one—I pur-chase linen occasionally of the housekeepers of people of rank—there is no impropriety in that—the prisoner has been to the box several times sins Christmas—I never bought any of these things.

JONATHAN WHICKELER . I found these things in a box which Mrs. Neville showed me as the prisoner's—I took her, and said it was for stealing a quantity of towels of Lord Derby—she said she did not steal them; she bought them of Mrs. Fletcher, eight years ago—I asked where Mrs. Fletcher lived—she said she was dead.

GUILTY of stealing Twelve Towels. —Aged 25.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2101
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2101. NICHOLAS LOCKE , stealing 36 pairs of stockings, 24 hand-kerchiefs, and other articles, value 6l.; the goods of Edward Boyle, his master; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 32.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Nine Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2102
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2102. GEORGE VICKERS and GEORGE DAVIS , stealing 1 watch value 5l.; the goods of John Trimley, from the person of Mary Trimleys; both having been before convicted.

WILLIAM OAKS . I did live at the Model Lodging-house, at Westminster, but am now living at Manchester. On 23rd Aug. I was going along Orchard-street, about ten minutes before four o'clock in the afternoon—I saw a lady coming towards me—I saw the prisoner Vickers come behind her—he came by her side, snatched something away from her side, and ran off—Davis was standing within twenty yards of him, and when Vickers ran, he ran in the same direction down the street—I followed—I saw Vickers band something over to Davis—they went into a house, and the door was immediately shut—the lady came to the house, and went in, I did not; I went away—in abort three-quarters of an hour afterwards I was going over Westminster-bridge, I saw the two prisoners, and told the police.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. What are you? A. A size maker at Manchester—I came to town to seek for a situation, last Sandy night—I did not get one—I have not been begging in London—I never went. begging—I called at several places for employment—I did not describe the man who took the watch as having light hair—I said it was dark brown—they brought forward a man with light hair, and I said that was not the man it was a man with dark brown hair.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. You had not seen either of the prisoners before? A. No—I did not say I saw a watch taken—I said I saw something taken by a man in shirt sleeves—I was looking about me—I saw the prisoners two or three minutes before this was taken—Vickers was in his shirt sleeves.

MARY TRIMLEY . I am the wife of John Trimley, of Cowley-street, Westminster. I was in Orchard-street, on 23rd Aug., a little before four o'clock—a man came behind me and snatched my watch from my side—there was a chain to it—the snatch nearly pulled me down—part of the chain was hanging" to my neck—the person that did it ran away; I ran after him—he ran into a house in St. Ann-street—he was in his shirt sleeves and without a bat—I got into the passage of the house and saw the man in shirt sleeves going out at the back—he got away—my watch was worth about 5l.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. You do not at all know the man that took your watch? A. I could not swear to him—I might have seen Oaks, but I was so agitated I cannot tell.

ELIZABETH SARAH RIDER . I am twelve years old, I live in Wood-street. On 23rd Aug., I was going down Orchard-street—I saw the lady there—I was by her side—I saw Vickers steal her watch from her—I had seen him in Orchard-street three or four times before—he ran out of the street.

Cross-examined by MR. PREXDERGAST. Q. Are you sure you knew Tickers before? A. Yes—I have seen him at a rag-shop in Orchard-street—he does not keep the shop—he was without his coat and cap on this day.

CHARLES TAFFEE (policeman, B 48). I received information and took Vickers—I saw him first in Holborn at a quarter before twelve o'clock on Tuesday the 28th—when he saw me he ran away, and I lost him—I took him afterwards in Short's-gardens—he saw me and ran away, and came out of the next house—he ran and I took him—he said he would not be taken, and he resisted very much—I told him the charge.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. Did he not say he was inno-cent? A. Not to me.

MARK LOOME (police-sergeant, B 11). I took Davis at No. 36, Ann-street, Westminster—I told him what for—he said he knew nothing about it.

Davis's Defence. When the lady got to the house she saw Vickers and nobody else.

THOMAS PRONGER (policeman, A 237). I produce a certificate of the conviction of the prisoner Vickers by the name of John Long—(read)—Confided Dec, 1848, confined six months)—he is the man.

JAMES THORN (policeman, T 48). I produce a certificate of the prisoner Davis's former conviction—(read—Convicted Feb., 1847, Confined nine months)—he is the person—he had been summarily convicted before.



Transported for Ten Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2103
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2103. WILLIAM M'GINNIS , stealing 1 watch, value 30s.; the property of John Howard, in a vessel on the Thames.

JOHN HOWARD . I am mate of the Medora, which is in the Thames. The prisoner belonged to that vessel—on 21st Aug., he left, which he ought not to have done, and I missed my watch—this is it (produced).

JOHN GILBERT COX . I am a pawnbroker. This watch was pawned with me I cannot say, by whom, but a lad about the prisoner's size came to have a second ticket on it—this is it.

ANN DUFFY . I am the wife of James Duffy. On a Saturday in Aug., My husband bought this ticket of a watch of the" prisoner—I went with it to Mr. Cox-and he would not show me the watch—this is the ticket.

WILLIAM FLSSING (City-policeman, 565). I took the prisoner—he said he ran away from the ship, and stole the mate's watch, and sold the ticket.

GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2104
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2104. FREDERICK AUGUSTINE MOORE and JOHN MOORE , feloniously extorting 5l. from Thomas Phillips, by threatening to accuse him of an indecent offence.

MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS PHILLIPS . I am living with my wife at Bethnal-green, I live entiroly on my means. Before and in the year 1846 I had been in the habit of frequenting a warm-bath kept by the father of the two prisoners—I was attended there by John Moore—I never behaved indecently to him or to anybody else, or did any act of indecency—in 1846 I first began to part with money on a threat of charges of this sort by Frederick Augustine Moore—he had made numerous applications to me previous to the 1st March, 1847—he said he could bring charges of my having exposed myself to his brother John, and unless I gave him money he would make it publicly known—from the period this first began till the 1st March, 1817, I parted, according to his own admission, with about 70l., in sums of 5l., 1l., or 3l., at a time—on 1st March, 1847, I was in Paul-street, Finsbury—I was overtaken by the two prisoners—Frederick spoke tome—he said he had a situation, he was going to Ireland, and he must have some more money or he should inform Mrs. P.—when he said that, he expressly named the sum of 5l.—John was with his at the time—I proposed a memorandum myself—I said, "You are present now," and John said he wouldsign it—it was a memorandum of my having given the money to his brother—I went with them to the Fox, in Paul-street, and there Frederick drew out a receipt, and his brother John acknowledged it at the Paul's Head, at the corner of New North-street—this is the memoran dum that they gave me on my giving them the 5l., "Received of Mr. Phillips. the sum of 3l. F. A. Moore. Witness, J. Moore, this 1st of March, 1847."—the so charges continued to be made after this transaction—I see "J. Moore" to this memorandum (looking at one)—this signature is John Moore's—I do not know who wrote the body of the paper, but Rickman Moore brought it to me a day or two after the 18th March (read)—" I, John Moore, late attendants: St. Agnes le Clair baths, Tabernacle-square, doth hereby declare that the whole my brother, F. A. Moore, has asserted respecting Mr. Thomas Phillips and myself. is false. Signed, J. Moore. Witness, R. Moore. To Mr. Thomas Phillips, Bethnal-green."

ALEXANDER STKWART . I was a policeman, K, No. 338. The prosecnter gave Frederick Augustine Moore into my custody on 15th July, outside the police-court in Worship-street—I told him what he was charged with—he said he wanted to be locked up, and he was glad—I took John Moore since the last sessions—I found him in Mansfield-street, I think on the 13th Aug—I told him what he was charged with—he made no answer. (The statement of T. A. Moore before the Magistrate was read as in page 629.)

WILLIAM WADHAM COPE, ESQ . I am governor of this gaol. After Frede-rick Augustine Moore had been tried he handed a paper to me, which I handed to the solicitor for the prosecution. (This paper being read, stated that the charges made against Mr. Phillips were utterly false, and that the sentence-passed upon himself was just.)

F. A. MOORE— GUILTY , (see page 629). J. MOORE— GUILTY Aged 19.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2105
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2105. RICKMAN MOORE was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS PHILLIPS . In 1846 Frederick Augustine Moore made a chages

against me, and threatened to expose the circumstance if I did not give him money—he went on with this till July in this year—in the course of that time I have lost 70l. by it. On the 6th July, when I came home, about three o'clock, I saw Frederick Augustine Moore waiting about the street (he bad before pledged himself not to torment me any more)—I told him that 1 had received a note from Rickman—after I got home I went out again and met Rickman and Frederick together on the north side of Bethnal-green—Frederick observed, in the presence of Rickman, that he would have 10l., for he was going to Australia, and his brother Rickman would witness any paper that I chose to draw up—I said I would not give 10l., I would give 5l., and they appointed to meet me at the Greyhound at six the same evening—in the interval I drew up this paper (looking at it)—at six I went to the Grey-hound—I found Rickman Moore there, and in a minute or two his brother Frederick came—I offered Rickman 5l.—he said he would not sign any paper without he had 10l.—I gave Rickman the paper to read, before I offered him the 5l., and then he said he would have nothing to do with it, and would not sign it unless he had 10l.—I at last consented to give them 10l.—I gave the money to Rickman—before I gave the money, both Rickman and Frederick had signed the paper—after I had given them the money, Rickman wrote something on the back of the paper in my presence, and said I must sign it—I read it and signed it, and they also signed it—when Rickman had got the money, Frederick seized the paper and left the house—I was alarmed, but Rickman said he would be back shortly—he did come back, and then I signed the paper (read as in page 629).

Prisoner. Q. Did you not see me in March 1847? A. I did—you called at my house, and said you understood your brother had had some money, and asked if it were true—I said it was—you said it was a very great pity, and you would stop it—next day you overtook me, and went to a public-house—you showed the paper where John stated that what he had said was false—this is the paper—I did not acknowledge my guilt to you—I went to Goswell-street on 6th July and saw Mrs. Moore—I said I had received a letter from you—I said it would be advisable to draw up this paper to stop it—I received this letter from you (looking at it)—it is my writing, I wrote it in consequence of a letter you sent me to meet me after the receipt of the 10l.—it was the week following.

Prisoner's Defence. I had nothing of the money; I stopped it in March, 1847; I found how my brother was going on, and I said to John Moore, "Do you know where Frederick gets his money?" he told me he got it from Mr. Phillips; I went to Mr. Phillips, and he said he had had money to the amount of 70l.; I said what a pity it was; he said he did not know how to stop it; I said I would; I sent to both my brothers; I then made John Moore give me that paper, and I took it to Mr. Phillips; I never saw any more of Mr. Phillips till the 6th of July; he came to Goswell-street to my wife, and stated that he particularly wished to see me; I went to his house; he was out; I told the servant I would call again; I saw my brother Frederick standing about; Mr. Phillips came, and appointed to meet us at six o'clock; he brought a 5l. note and five sovereigns; my brother snatched the paper up and said to him, "There is the money;" but my brother came back, and then it was given him; I saw no more of my brother till the Monday. when he abused me.

GUILTY of robbery. Aged 37.— Transported fur Fifteen Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2106
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2106. MARY BURROWS , stealing 2 cloaks, 2 dresses, and other articles, value 10l.; the goods of Harriet Ainslie, her mistress, in her dwelling-house.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET AINSLIE . I reside in Mansfield-place, Kentish Town, and am a widow—I took the prisoner about March, out of charity—I had no satisfacetory character with her—she was with me a month, and left me, by getting up in the morning and going out, leaving the street-door open—I missed two cloaks and other articles—this table-cloth and cloak are mine—these are the only articles that are produced.

Prisoner. She did not take me out of charity; she has a husband living at Lewisham, with Dr. Holland. Witness. I do not know that be is—I have not heard from him for a long time.

COURT. Q. When did you hear from him? A. Perhaps not for six months—I heard he was in France—he has not been with me for seven years.

(Mr. Robinson here withdrew from the Prosecution.)


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2107
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2107. MARY BURROWS , again indicted for stealing 1 pair of sugar-tongs; the goods of James Brooks, her master.

JAMES BROOKS . I live in Camden Town. The prisoner came into my service on 13th Aug.—she remained a week all but one day—she was taken at my house, and the next day I missed a pair of silver sugar-tongs; these are them—they have my mark on them.

Prisoner. I was not a servant to Mr. Brook; I went to oblige Mrs. Brook, while she was in her confinement; Mr. Brook had a lodger, who was in the habit of getting intoxicated; Mrs. Brook asked me to pawn a pair of sugar-tongs; I said I did not like it; she gave me a black silk dress, which I pawned for 7s., and gave her the money. Witness. There is no truth in this statement—I have another pair of sugar-tongs, to which she is alluding; not this pair.

JAMES MARLOW . I am assistant to Mr. Castles, a pawnbroker. I have this pair of sugar-tongs, which were pawned by a woman, on 18th Aug., in the name of Thompson—I have no doubt it was the prisoner.

HENRY EDWARDS (policeman, S 128.) I took the prisoner on Mrs. Ainslie's charge—she said she never lived in Kentish Town.

Prisoner's Defence. Mrs. Brook gave me, as she said, six tea-spoons; I counted them, and there were seven; I gave her one back; she locked it up in a box, and in that box was a pair of sugar-tongs; not this pair; these I never saw.


OLD COURT.—Thursday, Sept. 21st, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the Fourth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2108
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2108. JOHN SMITH , feloniously uttering a forged order for the payment of 30s., with intent to defraud Thomas Vesper and another; to which he pleaded

GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2109
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2109. JAMES HASLAM , feloniously cutting and wounding John Rutherford, on the forehead, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

JOHN RUTHERFORD . I am chief officer of the Nautilus, now at Liverpool. she was in the Thames on the night of the 6th Sept. I was in the Blue Anchor, near the London Docks—there was another person there, with whom tad some words—the prisoner came up behind me, turned me round by my shoulders, and stabbed me over the right eye, with a knife with a sharp point—I had never seen or spoken to him before—there was a young woman there at the time—I was laid up for several days—this is the knife (produced)—it is such a knife as sailors generally carry.

Prisoner. You said you did not know what it was done with; I saw you with it, and saw you open it.

CHARLOTTE WEBB . I live at 5, Brown Bear-court. On this night I was at the Blue Anchor. I saw the prisoner strike the prosecutor—blood came from his eye—there were five or six people there—the prosecutor had not said anything to the prisoner—he had his back to him—the prisoner was drunk.

Prisoner. Q. Where did I strike him? A. Over the right eye—I was on the landing, by the side of the bar—he did not hit you in. the mouth.

JOHN HEWITT . I am a surgeon, at Well-street, Wellclose-square. About eleven o'clock in the evening of 6th Sept. I examined the prosecutor, and found an incised wound over the right forehead—I should say it could have been made with the point of such an instrument as this knife.

Prisoner's Defence. The prosecutor was going to hit one of my shipmates, and I said, "I am nearer your equal; hit me;" he turned round and struck me in the mouth, and I struck him; my knife was hanging round my neck ready for use; I did not stab him; my ship has sailed, and my witnesses are gone.

GUILTY of an Assault only. Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.

Before Mr. Justice Erle.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2110
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2110. GEORGE HOLDEN , feloniously cutting and wounding William Payne, on the head, with intent to murder him: 2nd Count, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL MEAD . I am in the employ of Joseph Holding, a gardener, at Bromley. William Payne is in his service, and the prisoner also. On 22nd May they were at work together—Payne was picking out celery—I believe he was stooping—I saw the prisoner hit him over the head with a rake, and he fell to the ground, and I and Pitman picked him up—he was bleeding from the head, and kicking, as though in convulsions—the prisoner walked away.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You were some distance off? A. Yes—I did not hear any conversation between them—I did not see the prisoner give him a slap with his hand—I was in the stable, and happened to come out just-as the rake was used, without seeing or hearing anything that had been done—I cannot say whether there was an iron dibber on the ground, or whether he was stooping to pick it up, he was such a distance off—there had been some words with them on the Saturday night—the boy was not in the habit of tattling—the prisoner said the boy was not hurt, he was only making a noise, and then walked out of the gate—he was taken the same evening.

WILLIAM PAYNE . I was in Mr. Holding's service. On the morning of 22nd May, I was at work with the prisoner—my rake was not right—I put my rake into the prisoner's hand, and went to another bed five or six yards of—he came up and said, "Why don't you come to your own bed?"—I said,

"It don't matter to me what bed I go to, it is all in my day's work"—I outing to have worked at the one I had left, but I saw him working on it and I went on to the other—I chucked my rake down—he said, "Bill, what have you been telling these lies about me for?"—I said, "It is no lies, George—he hit me a slap on the head with his hand—I said, "Do not hit me again because I am not hit by my father, and I am not going to be bit by you"—he ran at me twice with the rake, and I went on to my own bed, and as I was. stooping down he hit me at the right side of my head near the top with the Take—that was the only blow he hit me—I fell back, and turned over—I was seen by a surgeon.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner ask you what you had been saying about him to Mead? A. No—he said, "If you tell any more lies about me I will hit you with the rake," and then I said, "I told no lies, George; I said nothing but the truth"—there was an iron dibber there, which I was stooping down to pick up at the time I was hit—we had been very good friends before—he was kind to me, and I to him—I did not tell him after he bit me the slap that he had better mind what he was about, and if I did not do it myself I had somebody else on the look out—I did say I was not hit by my father, and would not be hit by him—he got very angry on my insisting that what I had told was the truth.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. How far was the dibber from where you were strati! A. Close by—it was to plant the celery with—I was planting celery at the time.

JOSEPH PITMAN . I am in the service of Mr. Holding. On 22nd May, we began to work at five o'clock in the morning, and soon after I saw Holes hit Payne at the side of the head with his hand—I was about forty or fifty yards off, so that I could not hear the conversation—a few minutes after I heard a blow struck with a rake—I looked up and saw Payne down, and the prisoner threw the rake out of his hand—I immediately went towards Payne, and met Holden in the path, and said, "What have you been doing to the boy, now?"—he stood back for a moment and said he was not hurt—I helped to carry him to the doctor's—the prisoner walked away as soon as he had struck him—there was a great deal of blood running from a hole in the boy's head and a great deal on the ground.

JOHN MARSHALL . I am in the service of Mr. Holding. On 22nd of May I was at work with the prisoner and prosecutor—I heard the prisoner say to the boy, "You d----young scamp, what lies have you been telling of me now?"—he said, "I have not told any lies about you, George; what I said was the truth, and you can't deny it," and I saw him hit the boy on the side of the head with his hand and said, "You d——young scamp, if you speak any more I will lay you to the ground," and hit him—I heard a blow—I looked up, and saw the boy fall down—the prisoner was about a yard and a ✗ from him, and the rake in his hand—I went to the boy and found him bleeding very much from the head—I asked what was the matter—the prisoner said the boy was not hurt, and went away.

PETER M'WILLAN (policeman, K 375). I took the prisoner on 22nd May—I said, "You are a prisoner"—he said, "I am well aware what I am taken for; I am very sorry for what I have done; he is a boy I was very fond of; I did not think I struck him quite so hard, and it was done in the heat of passion."

HENRY JAMES WOKDSWORTH WELCH . I was house-surgeon at the London Hospital—Payne was brought there on 22nd May—he was suffering from a

contused and lacerated wound of the scalp, two and a half inches in length, and he was bleeding from the scalp at the time he was brought—it was a very dangerous wound—he had to undergo an operation with the trephine—he was in danger six weeks or two months, and is at present an out-patient—I think it is likely to have a permanent effect upon his health—it is such a wound as a rake would be very likely to produce.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY of an Assault. Aged 42.— Confined Nine Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2111
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2111. WILLIAM JOSEPH BAILEY , feloniously cutting and wounding John Payne, on the arm, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. MELLER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN PAYNE . I am a labourer. On Monday, 21st Aug., I was at Mr. Holford's beer-shop, and saw the prisoner there—he abused Mrs. Holford very much—I interfered, caught hold of him, and put him down on the settle—he asked me what I had to do with it, and abused me—I said I had very little to do with it, but he might as well be quiet—he asked me to strike him—I then struck him with my hand, I think, on the chin, not a very hard blow—he stood up a little while, and then sat down, and continued sitting ten minutes—he then jumped up, pulled his jacket off, went to the table, and took a knife—I did not see him take it—he then came to me, and stuck the knife in my arm—I thought he was going to hit me, and put my arm up to save the blow, and received the knife—he said afterwards he wished he had killed me—it was a very severe wound—I fell down, and a surgeon was sent for—the prisoner had had some beer, but was not drunk.

COURT Q. To what part of your body was the blow directed? A. I cannot say—the wound was on the upper part of my arm—I saw him coming to strike me—I put my arm to defend myself—he walked up to my side with the knife in his hand, but I did not see it—I had not seen it on the table—it is what is called a hog-killing knife.

WILLIAM HILLIER . I live at Ruislip. I was at Mr. Holford's when the quarrel was going on between the prisoner and Mrs. Holford—the prisoner was stopping to hit the landlady, and Payne put him down on the settle, and said, "Joe, you ought to be ashamed of yourself to call a woman like that"—he had called her a b—y whore—the prisoner told Payne it was no business of his, and he said he would make business with him; he should not kick up a row there—after that, Payne hit him, but not to hurt him—it scratched the skin off his upper lip—the prisoner then sat down for ten minutes I suppose—he then got up, caught a knife up off the table, went across the room, and stabbed Payne with it in his left arm—not a word had passed between them after Payne had struck him—the prisoner carried the knife back-handed, and struck the blow downwards—it was a hog-killing knife.

COURT Q, Can you tell where the knife would have hit if Payne had not removed his arm? A. It would have gone down on his side, near his left breast.,

WILLIAM HOLFORD . I keep the beer-shop. On 21st Aug. my wife retust the prisoner for a pot of beer—he said he thought he could be trusted, as he had paid her a good deal of money the week before for eating and drinking, and he called her a liar—Payne said, "You have no business to abuse this woman; you take and sit down, or else I shall sit you Gown, and pushed him down—he got up again directly—Payne told him to be quiet, or he would hit him—they had a few words, and Payne struck him

with his fist—I cannot say whether it was a hard blow—I did not see my blood from it—they then stopped about five minutes, or more and she that the prisoner caught the knife up off the table, and struck Payne with it; but I did not see him—I tried to get it away from him, and said, he drop the knife, for God's sake"—he then dropped it, and my wife picket-up and carried it away—it is a very sharp knife, and used for killing pigs—the prisoner might have had something to drink—I do not know how much—I sell nothing but beer—after he had struck the blow he said he wished he had killed him.

Prisoner. Q. Was not I tipsy? A. I cannot say—you could walk straight—you might have been fresh.

ROBERT HENRY TITE . I am a student of medicine. I saw Payne on 21st Aug., and found an incised wound on the upper part of his left arm, about three inches in length, and the same in depth—a portion of the muscle, and a small branch of the artery had been divided, and blood was flowing from there—he fainted three times from loss of blood—it was not a dangerous wound—it was such as would be inflicted with a knife like this—I only saw his that night and the next morning—he has been under Mr. Rayner's care sins,

WILLIAM RAYNER . I am a surgeon, at Uxbridge. I attended Payne on the day after this occurred—I found him exceedingly faint from previous loss of blood, and in a very weak state—I examined the wound, and found it about three inches in length—I have attended him up to the present time—it was not by any means a dangerous wound—it was a flesh wound.

Prisoner. I hope you will have mercy on me.

GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Ten Years.

Before Mr. Justice Williams.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2112
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2112. ROBERT WHALLEY , feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 10l., with intent to defraud Frederick Roundtree.

MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK ROUNDTREE . I keep the Crown and Sceptre at Poplar. The prisoner used to deal with me, and has occasionally borrowed money of me—when he left my neighbourhood about three years and a half ago, he owed me 3l. 10s.—on Saturday, 23d Aug., between six and seven o'clock, he came to my place, and presented me this check for 10l. (produced)—he said he was too late for the London Joint-Stock Bank, and would I advance him 2l. till the Monday morning, and he would then pay me 1l. or 30s. off the old debt—I advanced the 2l.—he left the check with me—I asked him how he came by it—he said it was the share of some property lately sold, belonging to his deceased aunt, and in three weeks or a month's time he was to have some more money—he said he got the check from "P. Kealey, 3, Elm-conr, Temple," and I wrote that address on the check, and likewise his address, "Mr. Whalley, 26, Red Lion-court, Holborn "—he put his name at the bank of it—I went, on Monday morning, to the Joint-Stock Bank, and did not get it paid—I afterwards found the prisoner, and asked how he came to get hold of a forged check, and rob me of 2l.—he said if I chose to present it at Elm-court. Temple, the party who gave it him would pay it—I sent Mr. Johnson.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. How long had you known the prisoner? A. About five years and three months—I do not know his age I do not know that he is the son of a deceased physician—he is a married man, and has two young children—he was not tipsy when he came—he was given to habits of intemperance, but I had not seen him for two years and a half—he never used my house until lately—I have seen him tipsy—When I

went to him on the Monday morning, at a quarter-past nine, he was very tipsy—hex had proposed to accompany me to get the check cashed, but I said I should not like to be seen with him, he was too drunk to go—if he bad asked me to deduct my debt, and give him the balance of the check, I should have done it—I believe he has been to sea, as a midshipman—he has not been brought up to any business.

RICHARD PRESTON . I am cashier at the London Joint-Stock Bank. We had no such account as this at the time this check bears date—the check was issued to Thomas Burnell and Co., on 27th Jan., 1845, who had an account with us at that time; it was closed sixteen months ago.

EDWARD JOHNSON . I am a printer, and know Mr. Roundtree. At his request I went on Monday, 21st Aug., to the Temple, to make inquiry for the firm of Keeley and Co.—I could not find or hear anything of them.

JOSEPH PUDDIFORD (policeman, K 276). I took the prisoner into custody on 21st Aug.—I made inquiry at 3, Elm-court, Temple, for the firm of Keeley and Co., and could learn nothing of any such firm—going to the station with the prisoner, he said, "I have got myself into a nice mess now "—he was drunk at the time—after he had slept two or three hours at the station I told him what I took him for, and he said a young man named Nicholas Baker, in East-lane, had given him the check, and told him to do as he liked with it.

Cross-examined. Q. He was in a helpless state of intoxication? A. Yes; quite drunk. (Check read—"London, 19th Aug., 1845. London Joint-Stock Bank, Princes-street, Mansion-house. Pay to Mr. Whalley or bearer, 10l. P. Keeley and Co.")

(Joseph Gear, proprietor of the Mitre Tavern, Temple, gave the prisoner a good character.)

GUILTY of Uttering. Aged 26.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Transported for Seven Years.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, Sept. 21st, 1848.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2113
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2113. GEORGE MASON , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s.; the goods of Edmund Crouch, from his person; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2114
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2114. JOHN ROBINSON , stealing 1 picture, value 8l.; the goods of Pierre Deurbroncq, in his dwelling-house; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 45.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2115
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2115. JAMES MORGAN , receiving 6 weights, and 27 pieces of brass, value 10s. the goods of Charles Borham Warner and others.

MESSRS. COOPER and WILDE conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD SLAUGHTER (policeman, G 231). On 28th June I saw the prisoner in Aylesbury-street, about twelve o'clock at night—he dropped something—I asked what he had there—he produced a weight, and said he had found it in St. John's-square—I asked if he had got any more—he said

he had not—I found on him five more weights—I took him to the station and found on him twenty-seven brass castings and three bars.

THOMAS CURTIS . I am foreman to Charles Borham Warner and other—I saw these weights on 25th May, and this brass on 6th June—no founders shop in London would sell them in this state—I identify them as my masters. by marks on them.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How many persons were in your master's employ? A. About 150.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2116
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

2116. JAMES RUSSELL and GEORGE GREEN , stealing 6 ounces weight of cheese, value 5d.; the goods of Charles Hull, their master; to which

GREEN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Month.

HENRY CHAMPION (policeman, F 107). On 27th Aug., about two—o'clock in the morning, I was sent by the Inspector to Mr. Hull's, Clement'sinn-passage—I stopped till between eight and nine, then there was a ring a the shop-bell, the maid came down, let in Green, and went up stairs—Green went to the egg-box—Russell then came down—he lives in the house—he said to Green, "There you are Bill," or words to that effect, and went: round to the left of the counter, took this piece of cheese, handed it over the counter to Green, who put it into his pocket—Russell then took the nose-bay, and went up stairs after the corn.

CHARLES HALL . This piece of cheese is very much like mine.

Cross-examined by MR. CHARNOCK. Q. What did you give Rasseill! A. 4s. 6d. a week, and board and lodging.

(Russell received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 17.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Seven Days.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2117
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2117. GEORGE BRINKWORTH , stealing 1 metal tap, value 1s. 6d.; the goods of William Lewis, having been before convicted.

MARY ANN LEWIS . I am the wife of William Lewis. We lost a brass tap on 9th Sept.—this is it (produced)—it had been fixed against a wall at the back of the house—it was safe on the 8th.

WILLIAM FITZPATRICK (policeman, N 202). On 9th Sept., at half-past three o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Hackney-road, and stopped the prisoner with a bundle on his shoulder, and another in his hand, about 100 yards from Mr. Lewis's—I said, "What have you here?"—he said a man on Haggerstone-bridge gave him them to carry—I found in the bundle a quantity of lead pipe, and a number of taps, and amongst others the one produced.

DAVID CRIPPS (policeman, N 340). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(read, "Convicted Aug. 1847, having been before convicted, confined one year")—he is the man.

GUILTY . Aged 18.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2118
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2118. THOMAS PYLE , stealing hammers and other tools, value 7l.; the goods of Thomas Jackson, his master.

DANIEL MORRIS ILFORD . I am superintendent to Mr. Thomas Jackson a builder, at Pimlico. The prisoner was foreman of the smiths—on 22nd or 23rd Aug. he had under his charge the whole of the tools—some of them were in the shop, but the small ones were under lock and key in the smiths'

shop—they had no business at the prisoner's lodging—several tools were missing I gave the prisoner notice, on the 23rd, to leave on the Saturday week following, and told him to deliver up his things, to get his work square—on 2nd Sept. I asked him for some hammers which we bad given instruction to be made, and also for a ratchet-brace—he said he would get them presently—about two o'clock the same day I went to the nail-room—he came to me, and said he was very sorry, but he had taken part of the ratchet-brace home—I asked why he did so—he said, "I thought to ask you to give it me several times, but I neglected to do so; the reason I took it home was, it would be a very useful article to me, as I intended to set up in business for myself"—I went back into the smiths" shop—I again asked him for the hammers and tools—he did not produce them—he had opportunity to go home if he liked—I then asked him for the key of the box, and looked in the box, and found several things, but not the hammers—I then fetched a police-man, went with him to the prisoner's lodging, and found a number of tools in a tool-box, worth about 7l.

JOSEPH SMITH (policeman, 40 R). The prisoner was given into my custody—he said, "It is no use for me to deny it; I had better acknowledge it"—after he had gone a little farther he said, "I was going to leave to-night—I was going into business for myself; I was preparing these tools in order to set me on"—the tools have been in my possession ever since—they are not all finished.

JOHN CRAIG . I am store-keeper to Mr. Jackson. On Saturday, 2nd Sept., I heard llford request the prisoner to deliver up some tools—he produced several from a box—he was asked if they were all—he said they were—Ilford asked the men if they were all—they said there were several dozen more—llford asked the prisoner again, and he said there were all that bad been prepared within the last three months—I went with him to his lodging at Pimlico, between three and four o'clock, after Mr. llford had gone for the policeman—he asked me to take the ratchet-brace to Mr. llford to induce him not to fetch a policeman—I asked him to give up all the tools, and then to go to Mr. llford and tell him, and that might perhaps induce him not to send for a policeman—he opened a cupboard and gave them up—the policeman was at the yard—the prisoner went to the yard, to make that representation—he acknowledged taking the whole of them.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did not he say, "I am about commencing business, and that is why I took the tools? A. It was words to that effect.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2119
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Transportation

Related Material

2119. WILLIAM POPE and THOMAS NEALE , stealing 1 truck, value 30s.; the goods of Charles Prescott; Neale having been before convicted.

ALFRED FRANKLYN . I live in Victory-row, Stepney. I hired a truck of Mr. Prescott—I left it fast to another truck at my door, on 24th Aug.—I missed it next morning.

CHARLES CARLEY . I live opposite Mr. Franklyn. On 25th Aug., I was looking out of the window, at five minutes past six in the morning—I saw a person like Neale cut the string of the truck—Pope wheeled it away.

JOHN RINGROVE . I live in Grove-road, Bethnal-green. I know Mr. Prescott's truck—on 25th Aug., I saw Pope go past our door with it between Six and seven.

JOHN NEWELL (policeman, N 102). On 1st Sept., between six and seven in the evening, I met Neale riding on the truck in question—I took him to

the station—he was not identified—I sent the truck home by his brother—it had on it "Thomas Neale, 15, Bath-street"—it has been altered and fresh lined, and there were new works on it—I told him I took him on a charge of stealing a truck with Pope—he said he had not seen Pope for some time, I think he said three months—he said he had built it a month ago at Mr. Norris—I went there and found it was incorrect.

CHARLES PRESCOTT . This truck is mine—it has the name of Neale on it—it has been altered, the top taken off and shafts put to it for a donkey—there is a mark on it now which I put on it myself, and there is a split in the block under the spring that was on it when I lent it to Franklin.

GEORGE NEWBERRY . I made this truck for Prescott—I am quite sure it is the same—I know my own work, and everything about it—the handles have been scalloped out, and shafts put over them.

Neale. It is one of my own make; one side is thicker than the other; there is no mark about it except where it is ground by the wheels.

JOHN NEWELL re-examined. I produce a certificate of Neale's convistion—(read—Convicted June, 1847. having been before convicted; Confined one year)—he is the person.

(Pope received a good character).

POPE— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Six Months. NEALE— GUILTY . Aged 25.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2120
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2120. JAMES SALMON , stealing 3821bs. weight of lead, value 2l. 6s. the goods of Edward J. Anson, fixed to a building.

MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.

PETER MOORE . I am a labourer, and live at Percy-passage, Rathbone-place. On 12th July the prisoner asked me if I wanted a job—I said did—he took me to 3A, Cleveland-street, opened the street-door with a key, took me into the area, and asked me to cut the lead out of the cistern—I got some tools, and did so, and brought it into the passage—he asked me if I knew where they bought old lead—I said, "Yes"—he told me to get a came—I did so, and took the lead to Mitchell's, in Tottenham Court-road—I remained outside—the prisoner went in—he gave me 2s. 6d.

JOHN THOMAS SIMS . I live at 2, Cleveland-street. I saw Moore in the cistern, cutting the lead—I told Mr. Wilding to watch him.

HENRY WILDING . Mr. Sims told me to watch—I saw Moore in the passage—there was a cart at the door—the lead was put into it, and taken is Mitchell's.

WILLIAM MITCHELL . I am a plumber and glazier, at Tottenham Court-road. Moore called on me and said he had been cutting a cistern out, and wanted to know what I gave for lead—he afterwards brought it, and I gave him 13s. 6d. per cwt., 2l. 6s. altogether—I had known him for years.

Cross-examined by MR. WILDE. Q. Was the lead old? A. Yes.

EDWARD ANSON . No. 3, Cleveland-street, belongs to my father—it was occupied by Laurence Salmon, the prisoner's brother—three quarters rent is due at Michaelmas—no one had a right to take away lead.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2121
VerdictNot Guilty > no evidence

Related Material

2121. JAMES SALMON was again indicted for stealing 2 iron bass, 2 iron brackets, and 8 iron weights, value 7s.; the goods of Edward J. Anson, fixed to a building.

(MR. BALLANTINE withdrew from the prosecution.)



Friday, Sept. 22nd; Saturday, 23rd; and Monday, 24th, 1848.

PRESENT—Mr. Justice ERLE; Mr. Baron PLATT; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. GIBBS; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.

Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the Third Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2122
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2122. JOHN LAURENCE , unlawfully assaulting Susan Clemmerson, with intent, &c.; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 59.— Confined Twelve Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2123
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2123. WILLIAM FRASER , forging and uttering an order for payment of 9l. 16s., with intent to defraud Samuel Morris: also, stealing 6 shirts, 2 pairs of gloves, and 6 handkerchiefs, value 3l. 7s. 6d.; the goods of William Morgan: also, 2 yards of cloth, 1 yard of velvet, 3/4 yard of cashmere, 2 1/2 yards of doeskin, value 2l. 8s. 3d.; the goods of Thomas Williams, and another: also, 6 shirts, and 6 handkerchiefs, value 2l. 15s. 6d.; the goods of James Joy; having been before convicted; to which he pleaded

GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2124
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceTransportation; Imprisonment

Related Material

2124. ISAAC NORCOTT and CHARLES GIBSON NORCOTT , stealing, in the dwelling-house of Joshua Frederick Denham, clerk, 1 watch, 1 bill-case, and 1 cash-box, value 3l. 2s.; and 3 sovereigns, 20 shillings, and 16 sixpences, his property; and burglariously breaking out of the said house.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

REV. JOSHUA FREDERICK DENHAM . I am the rector of St. Mary-le-Strand, and reside in chambers, at 1, New Inn, St. Clement Danes. On Tuesday evening, 5th Sept., before going to bed, I placed my gold watch on a watch-stand, on a little bracket, in my study—I had in a cupboard a deed-box, containing a cash-box, and an empty bill-case—I must have left my keys on my table, for I found them there next morning—in a money-box, on the cheffoneer I left three sovereigns, 20s., about sixteen sixpences, and about 9d. in copper—the box was locked—I came down next morning, between five and six o'clock, and my watch was gone, and the gold and silver from the box; nothing but the pence remained—the box was locked, apparently as it had been the previous evening—the cash-box was gone—I found the outer-door unbolted inside—the prisoners were in the habit of coming to my chambers to see my housekeeper, who is their aunt, and has been with me twelve years—they have had an opportunity of seeing where I kept my money; they have seen me take money out to give to one of them.

Isaac Notcott. Q. Can you swear the bill-case was in the box? A. Yes—I believe I have not given you any money for the last three years.

JANE BLAKE NORCOTT . I have had charge of the prosecutor's chambers for twelve years—there was no other servant—the prisoners are my nephews, and have been in the habit of visiting me at Mr. Denham's—they have seen Mr. Denham take money out in my presence—on the 5th, Charles came to see me, about eight or half-past eight, and remained till ten o'clock—after he had been there a short time he asked me for the key of the water-closet—I heard a noise, as he was going out—it was dark, and I thought he could not

find the door—he returned in five or six minutes—he and I went out together at ten—he wished me good night, in Wych-street, and I came back directs and went to bed about half-past eleven, about the same time as my master—I believe I bolted the out and inside doors of the chambers, as usual; I will not be positive—there is only one outside-door—next morning I saw a good many brown lucifer-matches on the mat, by the door of a little room, next to the parlour; not like those used in the chambers—they were not there the night before—when I came back from Bow-street I missed the keys of the outer and inner-doors, they were safe the day before.

WILLIAM JAMES THOROGATE . I am one of the gate-porters of New-inn, I went on duty, at the gate, on Tuesday evening, 5th Sept., at ten o'clock, and remained there till seven next morning—the gates are closed during that time—I saw the prisoner Isaac come out of the gate about a quarter-past five—I said nothing to him, knowing he was Mr. Denham's housekeeper's nephew—he came in a direction from Mr. Denham's chambers.

THOMAS HENRY PROSSER . I am chief constable at Coventry. From information, on 16th Sept., I took the prisoners into custody in Wells-street, Coventry—I took from Isaac's pocket this gold watch (produced)—I told them I apprehended them both, on suspicion of Mr. Denbam's robbery in the Strand—I opened the watch, and told them it was Mr. Denham's—they said nothing—I found a carpet bag in the room, which they said was then—I found in it a quantity of wearing-apparel, and this bill-case (produced)I found 10s. 6d. on Isaac, and an old silver watch on Charles.

Isaac Norcott. Q. Who pointed out the carpet bag? A. Your uncle—you said it was yours, and put the key in yourself.

REV. JOSHUA FREDERICK DENHAM re-examined. This watch is mine, but not the chain—this is the bill-case that was in the box.

Isaac Norcott's Defence. On the night of 5th Sept. I came, with my brother, from Horsleydown, and left him by St. Clement's Church; he said is was going to his aunt's; I went to the theatre; I picked up a few acquittances, and going home, about six o'clock in the morning, met my brother in Tooley-street; I asked him if he had told his aunt he was going to Covenkey—he said, "No"—I said, then we would return, and go to Coventry that morning; we returned; I left him in the churchyard, while I passed up towards the Angel; I passed in at the gate, and saw the porter, and as I went round the staircase of the inn 1 met another porter; I said, "Good morning," and he said the same to me; I passed up-stairs, and hearing the chimes go a quarter to six, I altered my mind, and returned to my brother, who was out-side; we then proceeded over Waterloo-bridge, and I picked up the gold watch; it is not the first time I have done so, for I picked one up a few years ago, and advertised it, as I did this, to see if I could obtain a reward for it; the bill-case had been in my brother's possession a month, and there is sewing about it which I did myself.

Charles Gibson Norcott's Defence. On the night of the 5th I went to see my aunt, and was there two hours and a half; I went out with her for her beer, and bid her good night in Wych-street.

REV. JOSHUA FREDERICK DENHAM re-examined. I am quite sure the bill-case was in my possession within two or three days of the robbery, and I believe, the day before.

ISAAC NORCOTT— GUILTY . Aged 23.— Transported for Seven, years ,.

CHARLES GIBSON NORCOTT— GUILTY. Aged 20.—Recommends to mercy by the Prosecutor and Jury ,— Confined Tweleve Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2125
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2125. JOHN NICHOL and MARY ANN GREEN , for a robbery on Eliza Osborn, and stealing 6 shillings, and 4 pence; the moneys of James Osborn.

MR. LAW conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZA OSBOKN . I am the wife of James Osborn, of 4, Paradise-row, Brewe's-green, Westminster. On 20th Aug., about nine o'clock in the evening I was in Little Chapel-street—I saw the prisoners together—Green came up, and said, "This is the b——mare I want," and struck me in the face, and tore my bonnet—I put up my hand, to try to prevent her, and Nichol came and held me by the neck, and said, "You b——mare, I will give you"—I put up my hand—Green put her hand into my basket, and I saw her take out 6s. 4d.—she said to Nichol, "Come on, we will give it to the b——mare another time"—they made away, and I went and gave information at the station-house—I do not know what she insulted me for; I never insulted her—I have seen her several times, and she always insulted and threatened me—I never saw the man before, but am certain he is the person—I saw him again on the 14th Sept., when I gave him into custody—my husband was with me—he is not here.

Nichol. Q. You do not know whether I robbed you or not? A. No—I was not fighting with Green—I do not know what you came up for—I did not call Green a nasty hussey or wh—.

JAMES JOHNSON (policeman, B 106). I took the prisoners on 14th Sept.—the prosecutrix charged them with assaulting and robbing her in Little Chapel-street, six weeks before—they admitted assaulting, but not robbing her—Nichol said they were both fighting, and he came to part them.

Nichols Defence. I know nothing of the robbery; I only went to part them.

Green's Defence. I have know the prosecutrix seven years; my husband left me to, live with her, and the next time I saw him he was with her; I then assaulted both of them; I called her a wretch.

(Nichol received a good character.)

NICHOL—Aged 20.

GREEN—Aged 20

GUILTY of an Assault.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2126
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2126. JAMES CLARKE and THOMAS WATTS , for a robbery with violence, on John Hood, and stealing from his person 1 jacket and 1 handkerchief, value 1s.; his goods.

JOHN HOOD . I am a seaman. On the night of 12th Sept. I had been drinking—I went home, to the Model lodging-house; the prisoners, and a number of people were there—as I went in at the door they switched the handkerchief from off my neck—Clarke and several others hustled me to the end of the room, threw me down on my back, and knelt on me till the blood came from my stomach and nose—they took the clothes off my back—I saw both prisoners there.

Clarke. I never was in your company. Witness. You were, and you had drunk with me at the King and Crown.

SAMUEL DAMEREL'L (policeman, H 140). I took the prisoners at the Model lodging-house—they said they knew nothing about it—Clarke was not sober.

WILLIAM SCOTT (police-inspector). I took the charge—Watts admitted being with Hood, and taking him home.

CLARKE—Aged 21

WATTS—Aged 17

GUILTY of an Assault.— Confined Six Months.

Before Mr. Justice Erle and the Third Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2127
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2127. WILLIAM DOWLING was indicted for that he with others feloniously did on 16th Aug. and divers other days, compass, imagine, devise and intend to levy war against the Queen, in order by force and constraint to compel her to change her councils, and that they did evidence that compass. ing, &c, by divers overt acts, set forth in the indictment: 2nd COUNT for a like compassing with intent to depose the Queen from the style, honour, and dignity of the Imperial Crown.


JOSEPH THOMPSON (police-sergeant, F 11). On the night of 20th Aug, in consequence of information, I apprehended the prisoner in Lambeth-walk—I told him I took him on a charge of felony, and mentioned a portion of the charge, but did not recollect it all—I asked him if that was sufficient—he said, "Yes," and asked if I had a warrant against him—I said, No; it was felony, and there was no necessity for a warrant—he said his name was William Dowling—I said, "You live at No. 5, Nassau-street"—he said, "oh, that is of no consequence you know, as I am going to leave there I give! the Pratt-street address, that will do, it is quite sufficient"—I took a pocket book from him, and this letter (marked No. 1,) which was folded up, but not sealed—he said, "you will not take that letter, I suppose; it is only a private letter to a friend"—I had been to 5, Nassau-street the day before, and ties found some papers in the back-room, second-floor, which Mrs. Dorothy Jarvis pointed out to me, and I there found all these books—among other things there were two receipts for making gun-cotton—(producing the letter marked book marked 2; paper, 3; list of members of the Davis Confederation Club, 4; a number of cards of admission to that club, 5; appointment of collectors to that club, 6; a book, entitled" National Defence Fund," 7; a list of subscriptions to the club, and a fund for Mrs. Mitchell, 8; a paper headed "Defence Fund Account," 9; and a letter from a person named M'Manns to the prisoners taining an account of expenses attendant on the defence of Frank Looney and others.

Cross-examined by MR. KITSEALEY. Q. Did you attend any of the meetings of that club? A. No, I was very anxious to get the prisoner into custody—I shall not tell you when I received information that he was at Lambeth—it was from some conversation that I had with some of the police—Sergert West and Constable 144 were with me when I apprehended him—I do not. know Sergeant Kennell, a sergeant of the F division—I know Sergeant Co" of the F division—it was not him that told me where the prisoner was to be found—I did not offer twenty guineas or twenty shillings to any person who would inform me where he was to be found—he did not resist in any way—I do not know positively what the word "Defence Fund" refers to.

DOROTHY JARVIS . I am the wife of the landlord of No. 5, Nassau-street, Middlesex Hospital—the prisoner ocenpied an apartment in our house for about twelve months before 18th Aug.—I know Thompson, who came there to search on the 19th—the room I pointed out to him, the second-floor back room, was the one the prisoner occupied—I saw Thompson find and take away these books and papers.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you opportunities of knowing the prisoners character? A. Yes—he was a particularly quiet, inoffensive man—I never herars him express any sentiments disloyal or in any way against the Queen, or way sentiments relative to war or fighting.

CHARLES FREDERICK CHUBB . I am an attorney, residing in Gray's Inn. I have known the prisoner about a year and a half—I have occasionally corresponded with him—I have never seen him write, to my knowledge—I believe this to be his writing (looking at letter No. 1)—there is a difference in the writing in this book (No. 2)—I can point out what I think to be his writing—this entry of 12th June, I believe to be his—this of 14th June appears to be a very different writing from that—the first three and a half lints of June 12th I have no doubt are his—I do not think the first four linos on 14th June arc his—I have seen this book before, but very cursorily—I think the whole of the entry of the 16th is his writing, except the last four lines—there is a peculiarity of style about his writing, he generally wrote in a large hand, but the very small hand I cannot detect—I have no doubt that this Monday, 3rd July, is his writing, and the whole under that head—the whole under 10th and 12th of July, and I believe 14th, 17th, and 19th—that is the whole of the page—I have not read any part of it—I have only looked at different words—I believe this under the head of meetings 15th, 17th, 19th of May is his writing, and that of 3rd of May also—the whole of book No. 6, I believe to be in his writing.

Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. About a year and a half—he is the son of a respectable solicitor—he is a portrait painter of very considerable talent—I have known him intimately for the year and a half—during the time I knew him he appeared a perfectly loyal subject of the Queen—I always believed him a very inoffensive man, and I did not believe he had any particular view on any political subject—he was a person of very mild demeanour—he has always expressed and conducted himself as a peaceable subject.

(The following entries were read from book No. 2: "May 12th. Committee meeting. Mr. Dowling in the chair. The minutes of the last meeting were read and passed. The Secretary called the attention of the members to the necessity of procuring new members to the club. Notice of the following motion: "That a committee of seven be appointed to consider the most effectual node of organizing the Irishmen in"—(a word scratched out, and the word "Heaven" put in)—" so as to form a National Guard Brigade, or any other name that may be thought proper.—Notice of motion by T. O'Mahoney,' that the club take the earliest opportunity of holding a public dinner, to which to invite the prosecuted patriots, Messrs. Meagher, O'Brien, and Mitchell, &c.'—"Friday, 16th June. Mr. Kenealey moved the following resolution: 'That this club disclaims all connection with pikes, daggers, and pistols, and will use none other than legal and constitutional means for accomplishing the object it has in view.' Mr. Dowling moved an amendment, 'that it be postponed to the day of judgment;' which was seconded, and supported by—Messrs. Nowlan, Barry, English, and others. Mr. Kenny moved a second amendment, which was seconded, and after a protracted and stormy discussion, the first amendment was carried almost unanimously."—" 12th July. A resolution was moved by Mr. Dowling, and seconded by Mr. James Barry, tendering the allegiance of the club to the Irish League' Mr. Crowe spoke to the resolution; carried unanimously."—" 14th July. The Secretary gave notice 'that on Friday next he would move the dissolution of the Davis club and the formation of a league club, or such other body as may he deemed advisable.' "—Several other extracts were also read. (Letter marked "No. 1"read—"London, Sunday. My dear Ann,—This has been an eventful week in my history. It was only last Monday that I had made up my mind to abandon politics for a while, and retire into the quiet neighbourhood

of Gloucester and Wiltshire, and recruit my health and purse—it has so happened that almost all my connection in London has come from these parts, and these have fathers, and mothers, and brothers there, who as all anxiously awaiting for a visit from me, which I have been for the last twelve months promising, to paint their portraits a nice connection ready cut and dried, to my hand. My friend William Chubb went down last week to spend a month with his father, who is a Magistrate, and solicitor to the Corporation of Malmsbury, and he wrote to me on Thursday, inviting me down, and requesting me to fix the day. Previous to my receiving his letter the events which I wrote of to John, occurred. On Friday evening 1 was informed that the secretary of the Felon-club was arrested, and I knew immediately that my turn was next; I accordingly resolved not to return home till late, and to start for Malmsbury next night. I spent the night in bidding farewell to some quiet English friends, who abominate Chartism, and where I was obliged to act the hypocrite, which I am pretty well used to now; and after midnight I made for home, reconnoitering cautiously as! went along. As I drew near to my own street, I perceived a figure watching me sideways, I strove to avoid him, but he walked up to me, it was a friend; he gave me a sign to keep quiet, and we proceeded quickly in another direction, when he told me he had discovered, through a friend is the police, that there was a warrant out for me, and that there were two policemen, in plain clothes, waiting opposite my own door, he and another friend had posted themselves at either end of the street, outside the police, so as to prevent my falling into their hands at either side; it was, however a very narrow escape; for the, police had noticed their movements. I went with my friends to the private residence of one of the foreign ambassadors, where I supped, slept, and breakfasted next morning; not with his excelled, however, for he was not in town; but with his landlord, a jolly old brick who seemed quite pleased with the mystery. I was introduced to his wife and daughter, as a Mr. Robinson, and I was near getting into a little hobble by forgetting my new name" (an erasure was here made) "I scratch this out for fear of this letter being opened. When I went out I learnt that two of my friends went to my lodging, and burned or carried away every paper that had any allusion to political matters before four o'clock on Saturday; they were scarce gone when the police arrived, and carried away everything they could find, and among the rest Wm. Chubb's letter, which gave them a club to my intended route, and of course compels me to forego all my connections and wander somewhere where I have no friends; I am now an outlaw, and there's no use in bilking the question, my neck is in danger if I am canght—however, I am in excellent spirits, and the only thing in the world that frees me is the bad opinion that will be formed of me by Wm. Chubb and a few other English friends, whose good opinion I valued. However, my consciences is quite at rest: I calculated the risk before I entered upon this business, and I am content to abide the consequences. I must write very little to and-you for a while, and that little will come to you with the London post-mark As long as I am silent you may be sure I am safe, as I will write the moment I am arrested, if I am so unfortunate. My friends are all astonished that am so little uneasy, but I only laugh at them; it is, however, most strange for it has always happened with me that even trifling misfortunes have preyes upon my spirits; but this utter wreck of my prospects has produced a kind to reckless levity, that seems almost unnatural. I have met with the greates. kindness from parties from whom I could not have expected it, but it is only in adversity that you can know who arc your friends. Whenever an of you)."

want to write to me, seal up the letter, without any direction except the word "forward" on the upper left-hand corner, and inclose it, under cover, to Mr. J. Lawler, 17, Pratt-street, Lambeth; and in writing be cautious to say nothing that will give any clue to them if they should open it. I will adopt my mother's name, but do not endorse it on your letters, Mr. Lawler will do that. Write very soon. God bless you all. I was delighted that you wrote to me. Ask Margaret to write to me, but you must not expect answers for some time. Give my love to Mrs. Johanna Kennedy and Mary O. B.—O'Bother, I mean. Mrs.----; faith, I forget her name. Yours ever, Roderic Vich Alpine Dhu. Mind always to both wafer and seal your letters. seal both inclosure and cover, so that Mr. Lawler may know if they have been opened. I should have mentioned that it was one of the Chartists, a fellow named Johnson, his real name being Powell, who betrayed us. W. D. To Miss Dowling, M'Connel-buildings, 36, Jervis-street, Dublin."

THOMAS POWELL . Early in the present year I became a member of the Chartist Association. I believe it was between April and May; after 10th April—I continued to attend the meetings of the Association from time to time down to June, July, and Aug. last—I have always understood there are district associations of the Chartists—I was a member of the Cripplegate locality—there was a council of management consisting of five persons—it was appointed after I joined them—it consisted of Mr. Battice, Mr. Fowler, Mr. Carter, Mr. Owen Jones, and myself—I entered by the name of Johnson, and was known in the Chartist Association by that name—the council had. the general superintendence of the business of the Association—they usually net in the front long-room up stairs, at Cartwright's Coffee-house, in Red Cross-street—about 20th July a committee was formed to meet at the Black Jack public-house, in Portugal-street, Lincoln's-inn-fields—it was called the. Secret Committee—I was elected by the Council as a delegate—I attended a meeting of that committee on Thursday, 20th July, at the Black Jack—there were about fourteen persons present at that meeting—I have notes which I made, not the same day, but the next—the notes were made by myself—referring to them)—Mr. Payne, Mr. Brewster, Mr. Rose, Mr. Mullins, Mr. Bowling, a delegate from Greenwich, myself, Mr. Battice, and another Confederate delegate, a Mr. Allnutt, of another locality, and two strangers, whose names I do not remember—each of those fourteen attended, like myself, as delegates from different districts—Mr. Dowling attended as one of the Irish Confederates; I was informed so that evening—there was also another person, a stranger, who represented himself as a delegate from the Confederates—I have no note of the transactions of that meeting, but I can remember them—verbal reports were given in of the state of feeling of the members of their respective localities with regard to the physical force movement, and each delegate returned the number of men he could depend on, and were willing to fight—a committee was appointed for the purpose of drawing up five plans of action—Payne, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, and the prisoner Dowling were appointed on that committee—the meeting commenced at nine o'clock, or a little alter, and lasted till about ten minutes after twelve—Battice was present the whole time—he had been requested by the Council to accompany me to witness the proceedings—we were to meet again at Dennis's Coffee-house, Great St. Andrew-street, Seven Dials, on the next Sunday morning, 23rd—when I went to the Black Jack, on the Thursday, I was asked to produce my credentials, and I produced a paper which I had procured from a Mr. Bezer on my way to the meeting—Battice was with me at the time received it, and Bezer said in his presence they were going to get up

a bloody revolution-—on Sunday morning, 23rd, at ten o'clock, I attendee at Dennis's Cotiee-house'—I found the prisoner and Rose, Mullins, Brewest-and Payne accompanied me—we were together about an hour before any one else joined uu—during that hour Mullns laid a pocket-book on the table with a map of London unfolded, and the whole of the persons present had papers in their hands—there was also a pen-and-ink sketch of various pars of London, belonging to Mullins, and a portion of it marked Seven Dials—I did not see either of the other four plans—the prisoner told Mullins that he thought it was difficult for him (Dowling) to undertake the management of the Seven Dials—in the course of the evening Payne, who occupied the chairs said, "Gentlemen, our object is to destroy the power of the Queen, and if possible, to establish a republic," and there was a general acquiescence; in that—I do not remember the words they used—there was some conversation about vitriol, and assassinating the police—I can't exactly remember the purport of it—Rose said, "We must first assassinate the police, burn down the station-houses, and build barricades"—that appeared to be generally receive:—at the end of the hour Allnutt, a member from Greenwich, and another Confederate leader, came: there were ten persons present—I do not know anything of this paper (looking at a plan)—I can almost swear this paper (marked A) is the one I saw in Mullins's possession—I saw him put it into his pocket-book, and put the pocket-book into his pocket—I never saw anything of these others (looking at others), but 1 believe I my safely swear to this, I was so impressed with the first sketch of it—the; is no particular mark on it, but I will explain how I am so positive of it—I had a view of it, and I observed this drawing and also these pencil-marks for barricades—there was some conversation by Brewster about the barricades being half-way down some street in Oxford-street, leading to some square—after the others came in, Mullins said he was sorry they had not quite ma-tured the plans for their inspection—Payne left about half-past eleven, and the meeting soon after adjourned, and it was arranged they should meet at Cartwright'son the same evening—we met there—Payne, Mullins, Brewster, and Rose, were there—Dowling was not—they went into a back room-1 did not accompany them—I next met the same parties on Wednesday, 26th July, at Hopkinson's Coffee-house, Saffron-hill—that had been arrange: on the Sunday morning—there were eighteen present, Dowlin, Rose, Mullins, myself, a delegate from Greenwich, Brewster, Ferdinando (this was his first appearance), a delegate from the Green Gate, Hackney-road whose name I do not know, Flanagan, Allnutt, and others—I sometimes made my notes when I got home the same night, and sometimes the next day—as regards this particular meeting, I must have made the note soon after I got home at night, or early in the morning—a return was given of the number of new delegates—there was nothing at all in writing, it was all done as matter of confidence one with the other—reports were given of the feelings of the members of each locality, and the number of men they could depend—on as fighting men—there was a motion made respecting an advertisement to be put in the Northern Star, calling on every Chartist and Confederate locality to send two delegates to meet on the following Tuesday, at the Dispatch coffe-ehouse, Bride-lane, Fleet-street—that was adopted—there was nothing further of any consequence transacted that evening—they adjourned to the same place on the Friday, the 28th—there were fourteen persons-present then—there were two new delegates—there were reports made of the feeling of their localities, and the number of fighting men—each new delegate made a similar report with respect to his own locality—a resolution was passed that

the sum of 10s. should be sent by the delegates of each locality, for the purpose of carrying out the object of the committee—we adjourned, to meet at Cartwrght's on the 30th—I attended there—there were twenty-eight persons present—they were Payne, Dowling, Erewster, Rose, Mullins, Bassett (his first appearance) Stevenson, a new delegate, myself, Ferdinando, Fay, and others—there was a return made from the new delegates of the feeling of the members of their localities, and also the number of fighting men that they could depend on—I believe that afternoon there was a resignation of the committee that met at the Black Jack, on account of the charges brought against Rose and Mullins, as being spies—a new committee, called the Ulterior Committee, was then appointed, composed of Payne, Rose, Mullins, Bassett, and the prisoner—that was the same Rose as it had been suggested was a spy—there was a talk about his election—the person who charged him as being a spy was not left out (I judged it was Brewster)—he was elected, after discussion and an explanation—it was not stated what the Ulterior Com-mittee were to take into their consideration—it was generally understood what they were appointed for—a resolution was passed that the delegates should meet, if necessary, at Cartwright's, on the following Monday evening—there was no meeting that evening—the next meeting was on Tuesday, 1st Aug.—that was the meeting which I alluded to, that was to take place at the Dispatch coffee-house, Bride-lane—there were thirty-four persons present, all delegates, or representing themselves as such, Payne, Rose,. Mullins, Brewster, Dowling, Bezer, myself, Fay, Thompson, Donovan, Lynch, Fuzzon, Warry, Allnutt, Ferdinando, Raymond, and others—a report was given in by the new delegates the same as before—(there had tan a resolution passed at Cartwright's, on July 30th, that four more should be added to the Ulterior Committee, to make it nine)—I do not think I saw this paper there—I might have done so—Bezer gave in his return of fighting men as fifty—he came from our district, Cartwright's—I cannot say what number the others returned—it was taken down either in pencil or ink—the Irish Felon Society was held in our locality, and the Star Society—there was also a club called the Davis' Club, the Emmett Brigade, and the Tom Paine's locality, and various others—there were delegates from each of those localities at the meetings I have mentioned—there was a jealousy that there were not enough Irish on the Ulterior Committee, and four more were added—they were Thompson, Lynch, Fay, and Donovan—there was a discussion on the propriety of sending a person to some part of Limerick or Cork, to ascertain how they were getting on—I do not know who proposed it it was not adopted—the reason stated was because it was not likely they could get any true intelligence of the state of the country—a proposition was made by the prisoner that there should be a demonstration on Sunday, 6th Aug., at two o'clock, of Chartists and Confederates, on Primrose-hill, to ascertain the strength and numbers of the people—it was lost by a majority of five—a resolution was carried to the effect that every delegate should return to his locality, and ascertain how the members were for regularity of preparation, and ready to be called out at an hour's notice—I do not know that that was a substitute for the Primrose-hill meeting—it was after that had been disposed of—a resolution was passed that they should meet at Cartwright's on Friday, Aug. 4th, at eight o'clock—Mullins stated he had seen Mr. Kydd that day, 1st Aug., and that Mr. Kydd had said, if the people came out for physical force, he would not be backward in heading them; but that he, Kydd, had entered on the executive as a moral-force man, and had taken the office only on that ground—that was what

Mullins remarked on Kyiid's statement to him—that was received with a degree of belief—Kycid was one of the executive of the council of the Chartists, of the convention that sat in John-street—I know out Cripplcgate-street district was in communication with the executive in John-street—we next met at Cartwright's on Friday evening, 4th Aug—there were thirty-two present—Mr. Payne was in the chair—Rose, Brewester Gurney, (his first appearance,) Mullins, Bassett, (his second appearance' Cuffey, Donovan, Lynch, Dowling, myself, Thompson, and others—the committee had met previously at three, before the whole body—the prisoner was present in the evening, but I will not say he was present at the committee—the committee sat half an hour or an hour, before the rest of the body joined them, and there was a discussion about what scarfs were to be worn as a sign of officership—a red scarf was mentioned; and it was determined that they should have red scarfs—I was present, and Brewster also a report was given in that evening by the new delegates of the number of men, the same as before—I should tell you that the committee who were sitting, Payne, Rose, Brewster, Mullins, and Bassett, had some converse I tion about a circular that Mr. Kydd had received, stating that they were desirous of knowing how far the committee of delegates then sitting in London were disposed to send a delegate to Manchester—it was decided to do so—Mr. Lacey's name was mentioned, and Bassett was deputed to want upon him, and Rose gave Bassett money that Lacey might go on the following morning (Saturday)—a resolution was passed that evening, to the effect that the delegates should submit to the determination of the ulterior committee, whatever it was—the thirty-two were then present—a resolution was passed that the delegates should call on the members in their localities to meet at half-past two on the following Sunday, the 6th, at their localities, and to prevent if possible the members attending the meeting on Kenningtion' common; to wait there till their delegates returned from Kennington-commes—there was a meeting advertised to take place at Kennington-common that day, called by Mr. Dwaine—to the best of my belief it was to be at three o'clock—each delegate, in his particular district, was to have his members—their place of meeting, to keep them from going, till the delegates retuned from the Dispatch Coffee-house—it being an unlawful meeting, many of the members would be brought in contact with the police, and they were desirous I of preventing it—there was a resolution passed that we should meet on the following Sunday at the Dispatch Coffee-house—there was also another resolution passed for every delegate to select four men, to appoint then as telegraphs on the Sunday, and to station them from Fleet-street to Ken-nington-common—the delegates were to be at the Dispatch Coffee-house, and thus communicate with the persons at Kennington-common—I attended the meeting on the Sunday—there were from twenty-five to thirty persoss present—I do not recollect that the prisoner was present—the arrangement was carried out of having men placed between the Despatch Coffee-house and the Common—I was appointed as one of the lookers-on, to see that!" the telegraphs should be stationed—a resolution was passed that they should meet at Dennis's Coffee-house on the Monday evening—I attended it-there were about thirty present—it began at eight—the prisoner was there—Ritchie and Cuffey, and the whole nine of the ulterior committee were there and others, amounting to thirty—that night the ulterior committee resignes—on account of the reports in the papers of the arrest of Smith O'Brien in Ireland, and Mullins explained that he had no confidence in the other ✗ who were selected on the committee, that he had not seen their plans—he

alluded to the four new Irishmen that had been added—one or two of the other made the same statement—there—was a fresh election—Messrs. Rose, Mullins, Brewster, Payne, and Bassett were elected, and were called the ulterior committee—a resolution was passed that there should be a president, and that the one who had the lowest post on the committee was to retire when the pre-sidcntcame in—this was a visionary president—he was not named—there was some remark made by persons present that he was somebody and nobody—he was somebody to be talked about, and nothing more—a resolution was then passed that the sum of three-farthings should be levied on every member of evey locality for the purpose of paying this president, to supply him with a salary—no time was specified for the payment—every delegate was to make the statement to the members in his locality—a letter was read by Mr. Payne, which I can only explain in this way, as he read it, that trade, was very good, and we should soon have a good order—he stated that the letter came from Mr. Lacey, who had been sent to Manchester—there was some degree of satisfaction expressed by many of the delegates present—they were glad to hear Lacey was going on well—a resolution was passed that they should meet on Wednesday, Aug. 9th, at the Lord Denman beer-shop, in Suffolk-street, Blackfriar's-road—Messrs. Payne, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, Doffling, myself, Gurrney, Donovan, Bassett, and others, twenty-eight in all, were present—reports were given in by the new delegates of the feeling of their localities, and the number of fighting men, and the state of preparation they were in—I do not think anything was said about ball-cartridges, or anything of that sort; merely about preparation—Payne was in the chair, but Mullins acted as chief speaker—he was vice-chairman, and sat at the other end of the table—he called on all the delegates to declare their allegi-ance and determination to abide by the decision of the committee for the good of the people—they did not swear, but some declared solemnly, and some said they were determined to risk their lives, and abide by the deci-sion of the committee—Payne read another letter from Lacey, stating that all was going on well, that he was still at Manchester or some other part of the country, and there was a question asked how long he was to con-tinue there, and Payne said he was to remain there as long as necessary—a resolution was passed that they should meet at Perry's coffee-house, Church-street, Bethnal-green, or Shoreditch, on the following Friday, 11th, at eight o'clock—I went, but found no meeting—I was informed that the police had been to Rose's bouse, and had seized his papers, and that all was up—I then went borne—I heard on the following Sunday that there was to be a meeting on the following Monday night, 14th, at the Orange Tree beer-shop, Orange-street, Red Lion-square—I attended it, and I was asked why I was not at the other two meetings that bad taken place since Wednesday—I found, I should say, twenty-five there—I have not got their names, but I think I can tell them—there was Cuffey, Brewster, Payne, Mullins, Gurney, Fay, Ritchie, Scurry, myself and others—Dowling was not there, at least I did not see him there—wumey asked me how it was I did not go to the meeting at Perry's coffee house—I said I did go, and there was none held—he said there was, and then he told me where it was held—Payne was in the chair at the Orange Tree, but Mullins was the spokesman, and he was chief spokesman on all occasions—he called on us to give a return of the number of ball-cartridges that each delegate and his members had prepared—each delegate gave in his return of half-cartridges that he had prepared, and also what the members of his parti-cular district had prepared—I did not take any note of the number—I think it was somewhere about 500 or 600—there was a return given in of the number

of fighting men—Mullins stated that there were nearly 5000 fighting men of the Chartists alone—a return was also given in from the Confederates—I can not remember the number of them for a certainty, but I think it was something bordering upon the same number—it was a considerable number—✗ said the time was near at hand—he said, "Gentlemen, the next business is that I want every delegate to select four or six men, or more, as many as the can select iron; his locality"—there was a question asked what they were for-J do not know by whom—Cuffy answered, "To fire houses, railway premises trains, or anything"—I did not put anything down at the meeting—I was obliged to be cautious not to put any thing down—Mullias looked up at the gas which goes along the ceiling, and said "If I look up at the gas, you will at know what I mean"—I was asked how many men 1 thought I could select and I said two, and the other delegates right round gave in a return also—it was said they were to be men who could be depended on, who would do any-thing and everything—in the course of the evening there was a propositives made and carried, to send a deputation of two persons to have an interview with some of the North-Western Railway engineers, and ascertain what then feelings were, and whether they were willing to come over and assist the Chartists—Ritchie and Scurry were proposed and unanimously carried the purpose—I was not aware till that evening that there had been a def-erence between the engineers and the company—it was mentioned then because it was requested to know what they were going for—is. 6d. was voted to defray their expenses for refreshment—they left forthwith on lie: mission—they were not present when the other resolutions were passed-! did not see any more of them that evening—there was a resolution passed that we should meet at half-past seven at the Lord Denman on the following Tues-day evening—I went—Payne, Brewster, Mullins, Cuffey, Dowling, Allnutt, Fey Gurney, Lacey, Ritchie, Ferdinando, and others, in all about forty, were there-Lacey was there when I got there—he entered into conversation with several of us, and told us that the men of Birmingham and Manchester, and I think he said Liverpool, but am not certain, were up and were doing, or would be doing that night, and he had been watched all day by the police, and as he was coming out of his street-door, a boy came up and told him that he was watched by the police—I had never seen Lacey before, I had only heard of him—he said he had been to Birmingham and Manchester, and other places, but I do not re-member for a certainty what those places were, and he had also been watched for two hours, and he gave the police the double, and had reached the place safety—about three quarters of an hour after that, there was a distributee colours by Brewster—they were twisted plaited ribbons, and were gives a the delegates so that they might be recognised as the leaders of the people—Brewster stated so—they were to be put on the left arm—they were three colours, red, white, and some other—I received one—Mullins was prcsent as their distribution, and after that some of the committee came in—they were not-all present, at least I did not see them, but one or two of them spoke, are told Lacey they had better retire and consult—the room up-stairs was ✗ pied by a sing-song, and we had the lower room—Lacey said, "If yes will wait a while I will go and see at a neighbour's coffee-house, whether we cannot have a room"—he went out, returned, and said "All right, or some such word-, and the committee went out with him—I did not go—they were gone about three quarters of an hour, or it might have been an hour—the delegates remained till they returned—they went away, to consult to gather-when they retured, Cuffey said, "Now, Mr. Chairman, you has better give the; instructions as quick as possible"—Mullins was acting-as

chairman—Laccy went with them when they went out—I did not see him return with them, and was surprised at it—Cuffey was secretary; I was informed he was chosen secretary by the committee—Mullins said, "Gentle-men, as you are aware, the committee have retired, and come to certain reso-lutions and decisions; they have directed me to give you the following instructions; and as our friend, Mr. Lacey, has informed us that the men of Birmingham and Manchester are up, and will be doing to-night, and we have no reason to doubt the correctness of his statement, therefore, gentlemen, to-morrow night you must come out to fight and strike the blow; and it is necessary, gentlemen, that you should speak out honestly and boldly, for there must be no flinching in the matter"—Cuffey stood by the fireplace, and said, "You had better put it round, Mr. Chairman, to every one present; let them answer, 'Yes' or 'No'"—Mullins on that appealed to a delegate sitting by me, and said, "Will you come out to fight?"—he said, "Yes"—he said to me," Will you?" and I said, "Yes"—then he said, "Will you?" addressing each in turn, one by one, round the room, till he came to Mr. Ferdenando, who made a bit of a speech, and explained his reasons that he could not conscien-tiously say "Yes" to coming out—he objected, he was not agreeable; in fact, he said, "No"—he gave his reason, and then said, "No," and sat down—there was one more of the same opinion—I do not know his name—he was companion delegate, I understood, to Allnutt, who sat by his side—with the exception of those two, the answer from the rest was, "Yes"—after that Mullins said, "Gentlemen, you must understand we shall take up four positions: Clerkenwell-green will be taken by Mr. Brewster; the Tower Hamlets will be taken by Mr. Payne;" and the Seven Dials, and the Broadway, Westminster, were the other two positions—Basset and Mullins were to take those two—I do not know which was to take each—Mullins said, after giving the instructions in that manner, "Gentlemen," every delegate must assemble the members of his locality, for them to communicate to their locality at eight o'clock precisely"—it was to be the next night—there was a question asked by a delegate, I do not know who, how they were to get there with their pikes and poles?—Mullins said, "I can only say they must get them there the best way they can," (some of the poles were ten feet long), "and at twenty minates past nine, to a second, every delegate must be with his men at their respective positions"—the delegates were to come armed—Mullins proposed, and it was carried unanimously, that Ritchie was to superintend and direct those men that were to be selected for the purpose of firing houses, railway premises, trains, or anything—Ritchie undertook it—the Orange Tree was to be the place of meeting—a question was asked, how Ritchie was to know these men, and some person said, "I propose the password to be, 'Frost and Mitchell'"—Allnutt proposed the word "Justice"—it was put, and carried unanimously; so that when these men entered the room Ritchie might ask them, "What do you want? who do you want?" and they would make reply, "Justice;" and then he would know them—Mullins said to Payne, "Just take a list of the number of men;" and he put them down; but he made a mistake, and there was some little confusion with the delegates—he went round the room again, and the number was reckoned forty-six—he applied to the person who sat next to me first, and then to me, and I said, "Two," but I could only depend on one—he went round to every delegate, and in that way forty-six was made up—Gurney was there at the time, and when—I said I could select two, he said, "Oh, nonsense, you can select more than that, half a dozen, I know" I Was rather put out at his taking on himself to judge upon it; in fact, there Was but one man that I could depend on for the purpose—Gurney

was one of the wardens before I was elected on the council—each warden has 100 men under him, according to the rules of the Society—after the number of men was taken, the last words Mullins uttered were, "May the bitterest curse of God hang on the soul of that man that shall betray any one of us"—it was such a colour as this (produced) that was to be tied round the arm—nothing more took place that I remember—I came away—the prisoner was there that night, and sat nearly opposite me—I attended a meeting on the following day, 15th—it had been arranged on the Tuesday evening at the Lord Denman, that our locality, the Finsbury, City, and Clerkenwell localities, were to meet Brewster at twelve o'clock, at the Crispin, in Milton-street, Cripplegate, to receive the delegates from each locality—I went, but did not arrive till a quarter to one—I found Brewster, Gill, Gurney, and I believe Fay, and others, eight or nine altogether—I have not made a note—Brewster said it was his intention to attack the Artillery-ground, and, if possible, to take it, and he should have to fight b——y hard, and that we should know by four o'clock in the afternoon whether the Government had received any intimation of what was going on—there was another person with him at the time; in fact, it was the man who told me at Perry's coffee-shop that there was no meeting there, and that it was all up with Rose—Brewster pointed to this person, and said, "Wait on me at Clerkenwcil-green when you are all there"—Brewster said, "Don't be afraid because you do not see the signals for a little while; you might not see the signals for half an hour, but wait a bit"—it had been arranged at the Orange Tree that there were to be bonfires—the men who were selected, were spoken to on that same evening, for I spoke to my men—Brewster also said, "Ritchie swears, so help his God, he will shost the first person dead that flinches from his duty."

Cross-examined by MR. KENEALEY. Q. Have you attended many of the Chartist meetings at Kennington-common and other places? A. I believe only one on Kennington-common; that was on a Sunday—I went with son of mine out of curiosity—I should think that was not above five months ago—per-haps more, but I think it was under that—I do not know whether it was before or after I became a delegate, but I rather think it was before it—that was the only one I attended—I did attend at Bishop Bonner's-fields twice or three times when the meetings were on Sundays—I attended a public meeting at Milton street for a short time—I think five or six is all I have attended—I cannot say how many I attended before became a delegate—I entered the Chartist Society after 10th April—I cannot say how many public meetings of the Chartists attended before I became a member—I cannot say whether I attended any—I cannot recollect it—it was not by attending these meetings that I gat acquainted with their principles or with them—I went to Kenmngton common on 10th April—I believe that was the first meeting I attended—it was some time after that that I became a member—I never saw the prisones at any of the Chartist meetings—I never considered him a Chartist only a Confederate—I do not know that I have heard him say he was not a Chartist—I do not recollect his saying that the Charter was not worth fighting for, and that it would be obtained peaceably in two years he might—I will not swear he did not say so in my presence—I should not have been surprised if he had said so—he was a very quiet speaking man, and never took an active part—I always took him to be inoffensive and quiet—I consider it would 'nave been in accordance with his principles if he had said—I do not recollect his saying that he was perfectly loyal to the Queen, and he considered her as one of the best sovereigns that ever was in England—I have met him another places besides at the committee meetings—I never heard his

say a word about the Queen—there were about forty delegates present at the meeting at the Lord Denman, when Mullins was in the chair, and when he asked them all if they would come out and fight—the prisoner sat nearly opposite me, on the other side of the table, at that meeting—I had a full view of him—I will positively swear he was not one of the two who refused to fight or to say, "Yes"—I positively swear that I heard him say, "yes"I have not got the credentials which I got from Bezer—it was the leaf of a book which was handed by me to Payne, who compared it with his book—it corresponded, and he said, "That will do"—there was no writing on it, it was a plain leaf out of a book—at the latter part of the time persons were allowed to sit among the delegates without producing cre-dentials—there was a great deal of imprudence in doing so—it was not allowed when I first went among them, no person then could possibly have been allowed there unless he was a delegate, and produced credentials—I do not remember that the chairman at the Lord Denman said, "Oh, that is all right "—the first meeting that I recollect seeing the prisoner at was on 20th July, at the Black Hart—that meeting consisted entirely of delegates and persons who delivered credentials—one person was admitted without credentials; but I objected to it, and he was not allowed to stop—I do not recollect that there was some conversation at that meeting about Dowling having no credentials—Dowling was there before I got there—five persons were proposed and carried, to draw out five plans of operation, and the five plans were to be produced on the next morning at Dennis's Coffee-house—they were to be inspected by all the delegates present, and the best was to be decided on—it was usual to produce credentials as the persons came in—the chairman was in the chair at the time—I did not see Dowling produce any credentials.

Q. What induced you first to join the Chartist body? A. Two things, curiosity and for the purpose of obtaining information and giving information to the authorities—I joined them of my own will—I found as soon as I bad been to—the place once or twice that they were a rum lot; I did not know before I joined them that they were rather a rum lot—I found it as soon as I entered—I went to the place before I joined them—I thought perhaps they would do something to me—nothing about money, but something worse than money—I should say a bit of steel was worse than money—I judged that these parties would be inclined to put a bit of steel into me—I did not give them any provocation—I judged so from the conversations I heard—it was not conversations relative to myself—I considered they were of that class of persons that would not be scrupulous of doing anything—that was before I joined them—there were many men that I thought would do anything or commit any kind of deed, and my impressions have been confirmed—the. phrase "anything and everything" is not a favourite one of mine—I should say these men would have had very little hesitation in putting steel into me, and particularly now—they would not have minded doing it before if they found it was necessary—I am a carpenter by trade—I live partly on property which I nave, and partly upon my hand labour—that was sufficient—I am like every-body else, anxious to get more if they can—my object in joining the Chartists was not to make money by betraying them, it was for the good of my country swear that I had no pecuniary object in giving information against these persons—I did it merely to do my country service—I put myself in commun-ication with the police almost directly I had become associated with these men—I introduced myself to these men—I visited Cartwright's, and ultimately become a member—I did not tell them anything particular when I first visited them—I mixed with them of course—I do not think I ever shouted for the

Charter—I did not do so at Kennington-common—I cannot tell you five amount of money the General Delegation had in their coffers from begining to end—the money was appropriated in various ways, the secretaries managed that—they could tell from their books—I should say they had a good deal more than 5l. or 6l.—I cannot tell how much they had, not 1000l.—I should say what they collected from beginning to end would amount to a good deal more than 20l.—I cannot tell you the amount, I was not secretary, I had very little to do with the books—when I put myself in communication with the police they did not tell me to take notes of all the meetings I attended, that was my own suggestion—I have never shown my notes to any person—some of these notes were made when I got home after the meeting, and some were made next day, but I swear none were made later than a day after, and the latter part of it I can positively state when I did it—I was at work at this time—I did not make any gunpowder—I made ball-cartridges, at least I have filled ball-cartridges for Gurney, our warden, and I occasionally cast bullets and delivered them to him—I suppose I have cast fourteen or fifteen doses for Gurney—I filled no cartridges except sixty-eight, which I had from him out of his cupboard, and I still have them in my possession—I did not make any fire-balls, or any other combustibles—I confined myself to bullets and cartridges, according to Gurney's directions—I did not make any pike-handle or any other implements for fighting.

Q. I believe you thought these men were not going quick enough to work, and you suggested that they ought to procure larger quantities of powder A. I suggested what I declared according to the resolution come to at the delegate meetings—I did not suggest to them to make quantities of carbides and bullets—I am speaking of Gurney—I did not suggest anything to Gus-ney—that was merely a word that fell out—I did not say at Bow-street that I stimulated these men to cast these bullets—I never gave any powder of bullets to any mortal being save Gurney—he is now in custody—I know man named Dennis Dwaine—I do not remember having any converstion with him about the absurdity of his moral force doctrines—I do not know him personally, I do not think I ever spoke to him.

Q. Where have you been living since this? A. That is a question I do not know that I ought to answer—I have been partly living at Her Majesty's expense, I suppose—I do not know that it has come from Her Majesty—there is not a great contrast between the style of my dinner since I betrayed these men to what it was before; in fact, I lived better before—I am paid badly—I am receiveing money for my support—my life has been threatened—I am not receivings much as when I was a journeyman—I am receiving only a pound a week—I am, not to get a farthing if I convict these men, I positively swear that—no one has told me so—I only judge so—such a thing has not been broached—I do not entertain any hope of getting any money for it, I look for protection from person danger, and that is all—I do not look for any promotion or pecuniary reward of any kind—I never told these men to set fire to any places—I have bait spoken of—I never told them that I did not approve of the slowness a tediousness of their proceedings—I have said I was sick of their talking, they evinced so much talk, and that was all that would be done with them—I might have said such words as those—I do not remember saying that I was sick of their talking and doing nothing; I might—I cannot tell you what I meant by saying I was sick of their talking—words may have been spoken by me at times which I really had no meaning to—I do not remember whether it was at any of the delegate meetings that I told them I was sick of their talking—I believe 1 have stated all that I repeated myself—I do not remember saying

was sick of their talking, and wanted them to go to work—I did not say that I told them I was sick of their talking—I may have said so, but I am not—sure—I will not say I did not say so—I did not tell them they were going too slow to work, and the best way to get their rights would be to set fire to London—I do not believe any such words were ever uttered by me, or any-thing to that effect—I did not in any way stimulate them to get bullets and gunpowder; once I was told to speak at a meeting about making preparations, or something of that sort—what I stimulated them in was in giving Gurney the gunpowder—I did not cast bullets for anybody but him—I considered that was stimulating them—(The witness's deposition being read, stated, "I stimulated them on in some respects—I gave some of them bullets and powder—I gave Gurney some bullets and powder only, and not anybody else")—I meant Gurney only—I swear positively I never gave powder, bullets, or paper to any other mortal being save Gurney—I do not think I said at Bow-street, in answer to Mr. Macnamara, that I stimulated the people on—I meant that I stimulated Gurney—I meant to confine it to him—I used no stimulation to him, except that he asked me to get some lead and powder, and such like for him to make the cartridges, and I did so—he said the cartridges were for use—I expected what they were for—he knew what was going on—I believe of course he intended to use them on a future occasion, I suppose in fighting.

Q. Against the Queen? A. I do not know about against the Queen, but if a collision took place between the Chartists and the police of course he would have used them, I suppose so—I made them at his desire, it was his suggestion, not mine—he had been a long time making these things—I am aware that Gurney is to be tried—there was a suspicion of spies—they suspected me as a spy—I can hardly tell you what I was suspected for at first—am I bound to say how they came to suspect me?

COCRT. Of course you are. A. Then I will tell you how it was—a person, named Rowland, who is a carman to a brother-in-law of mine, is a Chartist, and had been for years, and I was in communication with a certain party; that party called at my brother-in-law's premises, he saw this party and knew him, and he came to our locality and charged me openly with it: I vindicated myself as much as possible, that was how I was charged, but I cleared the matter up then, and the party that charged me was bundled neck and heels out of the place.

MR. KENEALEY. Q. Why not tell me that first? A. It was a matter that re-quired concealment, and I of course kept it concealed, and I did not answer the Question till I was bound to—in fact I have not given you the whole yet—I have told you how I was suspected, and that is all—Rowland charged me with being a spy—I was not charged as a spy by any delegate—Rowland was not a delegate—none of the delegates were present when I was charged with being a spy—the delegates did not suspect me—they knew nothing at all about my naving been alleged to be a spy—I had some conversation about it now I remember, with Mr. Mullins, at the Milton-street meeting—he was on the platform, and I told him that some time ago I was charged with being a spy, and he himself was charged—there were such foolish suspicions in the minds of the members of the locality, I was surprised to find they were suspecting most of the members as spies.

Q. Were you surprised to find that they were such fools as to suspect you as a spy? A. well certainly, if I am to use such a vulgar epithet, they were fools not to know the difference—they did not suspect me.

Q. How did it happen that they admitted you among these delegates, and to all their secrets, when you had not become a member of the Chartist

Society before? A. Because I was elected by the Council, and went there—I cannot say why I was elected by the Council—the fact was the others were afraid to go—the Council consisted of Fowler, Owen Jones, Car-myself, and Battice—Mr. Battice accompanied me that night, and was afraid to go to any other meeting—some stranger in the room asked me whether I had any objection to stand as one of the Council—I said no; and I was proposed—I never asked him to propose me—I did not suggest it to him—I do not knew who the stranger was—I cannot tell what made him suggest it—he gave me no reason for asking me to join the Council—he did not say, "Powell, yen are a great Chartist, a determined fellow, and ought to be on the Council"—no one knew me by that name—he did not say, "Johnson "—I do not think I had ever seen that stranger before—I do not think I ever saw him before that night—I cannot say whether I have ever seen him since—he was sitting by my side, and proposed that I should be on the Council—he may have seen me before—I was not very much inclined to go on the Council—I never put myself forward, for they were very inattentive to these matters; they was not careful—they did not know where I lived, nor what I was, and scared: knew my name—I did not say I did not wish to be on the Council—I not put myself forward—I had no particular wish not to be on the Council if I was elected I should have gone in; and I was elected, and did go in I knew I should have a better opportunity of getting information if I was on the Council—I was not pressing for it—I wished it to a certain extent, but not to force myself in.

Q. You wanted to dive gradually into their councils? A. Of course I did and to be unsuspected, for the purpose of betraying them with the greaters ability—I cannot remember how long I was on the Council before I was made a delegate—I think it was a short time after Mr. Williams was secretary—I cannot say to a certainty how long it was, it may have been above ft: months—I could tell if I had the books the time I entered, but I really cannot now—I kept no note of it when I entered—I did not keep a diary of my transactions, only this produced—I kept this on purpose that it should improve my memory in giving an account of every transaction that occurned—my memory is pretty good in some things, and bad in others—it is goo: so far as to know what did take place, and no more—it was the men who went to the Orange Tree that were to use the word "Justice"—every delegate knew the word, and was to communicate the pass-word to every man that he selected for that particular purpose, so that no man could enter the room or know what was going on at the Orange Tree, unless he made use of the word "Justice "—only one delegate was to be there, and that was Ritchie the firemen were to come there and use the word "Justice," and he would know them—it was understood that no other person was to go there no others person had any right to go there except those men for that particular put pose—these were books kept by the delegates on two occasions—I saw them on the table—the leaves were torn out the first night of the meeting, 20th July—I cannot tell whether any of those books have been used by the Crown—I have seen a person named Luke King—I was present at a meeting on 20th—July when King came—he said, "if I have been rightly informed, you, the Secret Commitee, have been sitting day and night for some time past; is that true or not?"—Mr. Payne said, "There is some truth in it"—they were very cautious what they did in King's presence—he was very much out of temper and left in a very hasty manner, and went down stairs—I do not believe said a word—it was the first night I was there—I did not deny that there were any secret meetings held—how could I, I did not know it—that was the only

meeting that King was at, that I know of—I did not get up meetings for the-purpose of getting money together—Mr. Owen Jones was one that got them up—I never got a farthing of the money at the meeting on 30th July, at Cartwright's coffee-shop—I do not recollect any money at all being paid that evening—Payne was in the chair; I believe it was Payne—it was very seldom that Mullins took the chair.

Q. Did you hear Dowling say that evening that the plans of the committee had been concocted in his absence and he did not understand them, and as far as he did understand them he disapproved of them altogether? A. He might have said such words; I do not know whether he did—on my oath I did not hear him utter such words—if he had I should have heard it—I do not suppose he did use them at all—he resigned that night, but he was re-elected—I do not know that he gave that as a reason for resigning—if he did I should have heard it—it is very likely he might have said it—I do not know that he gave any reason for resigning; I do not recollect that be said anything about it—there was a charge brought against Mullins and Rose about their being spies—that occasioned a great deal of confusion, and the committee resigned—no other reason was given—there was another resignation, on 7th Aug., in consequence of Smith O'Brien's arrest; that was not on 30th July—I was present at the discussion relative to the accusation—I told them I had heard so much in our locality that I myself had been accused of being a spy, and that it was so much trash, to put it aside altogether—I believe those were the very words I used—they did not suspect me of being a spy—I mentioned to Mullins, at the Milton-street Theatre, that I had been suspected as a spy, and that was the only night I mentioned it to him—I also men-boned it at the time of the discussion—I indignantly repudiated the notion of my being a spy; I did not positively assure them that I was not a spy—I did not do either one thing or the other—I never gave them to think I was or was not, I let the matter pass—I spoke to my men, to be ready on the Tuesday night—I spoke to two men to be ready for firing; one was Abel, who was taken at the Orange Tree; I do not know the name of the other man—I knew the man; I have known him perhaps four or five years—I told him that I was delegated by the resolution come to at the meeting, to find four men for the purpose of firing houses and premises, and I called him on one side, and spoke to him on the subject, and he appeared to be disposed for the purpose—I was in conversation with one of the men about a quarter of an hour, and with the other about the same time, and told them for what purpose it was.

Q. What object had you in persuading those two men to join you in this. firing expedition? A. It was a resolution come to at the meeting to select, four men each, and I did not know any more, except those two men—one man was disposed, and Abel, when I left him, did not seem disposed, and I never took any further notice of him—I felt bound to carry out the resolution of the delegates, or I could not have led them to feel I was discharging my duty—the other man I spoke to was not a delegate—I did not want to entrap him into this—I spoke to him on the subject, and left it to his own option—was doubtful whether he would do it, and although he told me he would go to the Orange Tree I did not believe him, and he did not go—I did not use any effort to persuade him to join in firing the houses—I told him what it was for, and said, "Consider it"—I did not endeavour to entrap the men; it was just to carry out the resolution—if he had fulfilled the resolution, it would certainly have entrapped him; but unless I had spoken to him I should not have fulfilled that which was expected of me—I did not feel bound

to carry out the resolution to the extent required, but merely just to speak to the men—it was never my intention to get them to do such a thing—if they had consented to fire houses I should not have dissuaded them; but it was not my intention they should do it, for all that.

Q. When did you first begin to communicate this affair to the Government? A. Soon after 10th April—the Secret Committee sat the very next day after I attended the first meeting—that was on 20th July—I was not in communication with the Government before that—I first put myself in communication with these parties very soon after 10th April, very soon after I joined the Chartists—I communicated every movement that I knew of, from time to time; they knew everything—I saw something illegal in the council when I first joined them—I knew that there was a rising; that was before I put myself in communication with the Government—the parties with whom I communicated did not persuade me to continue among the delegates—they did not tell me not to do so; I did it of my own accord—I saw them, often, I did not see them regularly once a week—I do not know what has become of the man I wanted to fire the houses—I went to none but the two, I never spoke to a soul besides—I did not tell him anything about firing railways—I said it was for firing houses and premises—there was not a word said about killing the police on that occasion—if I bad received orders from the delegates to get any one to kill the police, I should not have considered myself bound to carry them out; I merely did what I was desired, with reference to firing houses; I merely spoke to him—I never said they were not to consider whether there were people in the houses—this is the only occasion on which I have got people to fire houses; the only occasion on which I was asked to go—if I had been asked on other occasions I should have done so—I should not have fired any houses—I only heard the men talk about a Republic once—Dowling was present then—when Payne spoke of destroying the power of the Queen I said nothing, I was not on the Committee, and was surprised that they allowed me to be present—Rose spoke about assassinating the police—I was in communication with the police then—I offered no remarks on the subject, as I had no right to be there while they were sitting—it was business which ought to have been transacted by the committee alone—as delegate ought to have been present—I was present on one or two other occasions—they generally met before the general body of delegates, and before the delegates left they consulted together—that was the meeting where they produced plans, and talked about barricades—it did not occur to me that it was a curious thing that such important things should be communicated at a meeting at which I had no right to be present—nothing was said about my presence—there is no doubt there were many propositions made that were not made known to the general body of the delegates—I saw a plan; to the best of my knowledge this is it (produced)—on my solemn oath the word "fighting men" was used—the very first night Mullins asked us to give in out returns of the number of fighting men, those were his words—it was proposed, I think, by Donovan, to send a delegate over to Limerick or Cork to know how things were, in consequence of the difficulty of getting information at the time the excitement was going on—I do not remember Dublin being mentioned—I never heard of any communication between the delegates and the people of Cork or Limerick—when Mullins said, "May the bitterest curse of God hang on the soul of the first man who betrays any one of us," I did not think he meant me, because he did not know I was in communication—I have been a carpenter for the last ten years—I was a bed-pillar carver before that—I have made more by carpententry

than by spying—the "Ulterior Committee" is the only name that I am in possession of as the name of the Committee—I do not remember saying there was a plotting committee—I may have called it so—I have heard it called so—I do not know by whom, but the name was the "Ulterior Committee."

JOSEPH THOMPSON re-examined. On 11th Aug. I searched Rose's premises—he was with us, and showed us the place—I found this plan, marked "A;" this map of the City-road, "B;" a map or sketch of Seven Dials, "C;" blank forms for plans to be filled up; one of Seven Dials; and the other, beaded "Clerkenwell;" three recipes for gun-cotton, and these two lists of numbers—I found this cipher (produced; No. 11).

WILLIAM CHUBB re-examined. I believe this (No. 11) to be the prisoner's writing—(This being read, contained various marks and figures, with names and words attached to them, among which were "Pikes," "Rifles," "Killed," "Shot," "Barricades," "Victory," "O'Brien," "Doheny," "Tipperary." "Poison," "Fire," "English," &c. The papers found at Rose's being read, contained a variety of names contracted, with numbers placed against them, signifying the various localities, their number, and names of the leaders, among which were the following: "Wall. 80; Bass, and Nas.—Lamb, lo 150 Ped.—Ber. 50; Dean. 250; Cuff. Thom.—Star. 50; Pear.-War—Irish, 50; Ritch.—St. Gils. 100;—Carts. 50; Fel. 100; Mitch 30; W. Ty. 20;—Fuzz. Fa., &c."

CHARLES TILDEN . I am a brass-chaser, of 26, Little Earl-street, Sevendials, and work for Martin and Gracy, of Rathbone-place. On 27th May I became a member of the Chartist club in Dean-street—Cuffey was the class-leader—each class-leader has nine men under him, and gives orders to them—he gave me orders to get gunpowder to make ball-cartridges to fire on the police—he said the time was close at band"; that was about the middle of June—I said I had not got a gun or a musket—he said, "Never mind that, make the cartridges up, and when the time arrives break into the gun-shops and get them"—some time afterwards I met him in Wardour-street, and asked him how to make the cartridges—he gave me directions—about a week afterwards I went to his lodgings—he showed me a pike, which he said was Mitchell's pattern, and asked me to sharpen it for him, but I did not—I saw this pike-handle as well (produced)—I went again, and found him casting talks from letter-type—I saw about a dozen—he said they were to make up into cartridges—he said So-and-so had got some ginger-beer bottles with pieces of ragged iron in them, and that the wives of the Chartists were to chuck them out of the windows on the police, while the husbands were fighting with the police in the streets—he said the soldiers would soon be drained away to Ireland, and London would be in our hands—I have seen Dowling at the Davis club—he was the Secretary.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you enter into communication with the Government? A. About a month after 29th May, when I became a member—joined as a moral-force Chartist, not for the purpose of giving information to Government—I gave information for the good of the public and myself—I believed it to be my day I did not broach the subject of the ginger-beer bottles I said So-and-so had got ginger-beer bottles, with pieces of ragged iron in then, and bits of tow round them, and he said they were very good things to chuck out of windows—I said nothing about gunpowder, in reference to ginger-beer bottles, till Cuffey mentioned it to me—I did not ask him to eatrap him-but to see if I could escape any plot being laid, as I suspected Plot then—he thought I was one of the right sort—I allowed him to continue in that belief till he was taken up, I played the traitor all the time—I

did not tell him would join in the attack on the police—I may have broached the subject of attacking the police, three times—it was not four—I did not commence the conversation, only about the finger-beer bottles—I did—not say a word about the police—I commenced the conversation with reference to destroying the police, three times—Dowling was not a member of the club I was in—I have not been in the pay of the police—I have received no Government pay, and do not think I shall—I have received nothing for the evidence I am giving, and do not expect to.

MR. ATTORNLY-GENERAL. Q. What was said in the conversation with Cuffey on Sunday morning, '? A. He asked if I had heard of any orders, and gave me orders to get 2lbs. of gunpowder.

THOMAS BARRETT . I am a shoemaker, of 17, Charles-street, Lisson-grove. On Whit-Sunday I became a member of the Emmett Brigade, which held its meetings at Morgan's beer-shop, in Praed-street,. and one branch in Shouldham-street, kept by Broaden—I know a man named Mullins—I have heard him address meetings of Chartists and Confederates, at Breaden's, on several Sundays, and on Sunday, 13th Aug. I heard him say it was necessary for each man to prepare himself for the crests that was coming, and it was necessary for each man to make a small sacrifice to aid the Committee of Progress in their undertakings, and they would judge by the exertions they made whether they were prepared or not—at a meeting there on Tuesday, 15th Aug., between thirty and forty Chartists and Confederates were present—at one time there were forty—it was staled that they were waiting for delegates from the Committee of Progress—on Wednesday, 16th Aug., about eight o'clock, I went to the Chartist meeting-house in Praed-street—about twenty of the Emmenet Brigade were assembled—it was said that they were waiting for orders; they did not say for what, but it was generally understood for an outbreak—I went from thence to Breaden's, I got there about half-past eight or a quarters to nine, and found thirty or forty persons of the same class—Mullins came in and a man named Smith clapped him on the shoulder, and said, "My boy, I was afraid you were taken"—he said, "No, they only take me with my life'—he retired, and a man named Cruickshank came in and placed a musket on the table—I had seen him there once or twice before—I do not know what branch he was a member of—there were two pistols, and several pikes and pike—heads, in the room—I heard the question put whether they were prepared, and whether they had got their toothpicks, which was the name they gave them—Mullins and others retired into another room—when they came back I was sitting in the angle of the room, and saw Mullins look into the room, and withdraw out of my sight—Smith said to me, but I cannot swear whether it was in Mullin's presence, that they were to be in readiness to meet their leader at Crown-street Soho-square, and the Seven Dials, at ten o'clock—the leader's name was not mentioned—a cab, which I was informed—had brought Mullins, drove up to the door, and he went away in it—I believe there was a question asked how they were to take their arms—the answers in the best way they could—I went to Crown-street, Soho, walked down to the bottom, and recognied about thirty persons whom I had seen in the room.

Cross-examined. Q. What is Mullins? A. I believe he is a surgess—he seems to be a man of education—I think he said crisis, and not cress—was, not in communication with the police when I heard Mullins speak—I am a moral-force Chartist—I think it is not physical means that will carry out moral force.

CHARLES BALDWINSON . I am a tailor, of Webber-street, Blackfrairs. I became a Chartist last May, and was elected a class-leader about three weeks

afterwards, in June—I had nine men under me—the usual place of meeting was Chartist-hall, Webber-street—Morgan was a class-leader in the same district—I attended at the South Lambeth Chartist-hall—I know Pedley well—he was a class-leader at one time, but gave it up—he used to attend the same meetings—on Tuesday evening, 15th Aug., I went with Morgan to a Chartist meeting at the Peacock, Francis-street, Westminster-road—as we went he told me that during my absence something was going on which I was little aware of, but when I got to the Peacock I should hear something by Mr. Pedley, that something was close at hand—I had not been there for nearly a fortnight—about half an hour after we had been at the Peacock, Pedley came—he said there was a general rising in the North, that a delegate had come from Manchester, and that we were to meet at the Peacock next evening, and bring our men with us armed, and those who were not armed were to be put in a position to get arms—my party was to go to the Broadway, Westminster—Clerkenwell-green, the East end of town, and Seven-dials were also mentioned—Pedley produced some different-coloured ribbons, which the leaders were to wear that they should be known by the men—this is one of them (produced)—next morning I went, and told some of the men what was going to take place—at nearly nine o'clock in the evening I went to the Angel, in Webber-street—Prowton, Con way, Johnson, and Pedley were there—I believe we got there before Pedley—when he came I saw him load a pistol—I saw some cartridges, which he made up at the Peacock on Wednesday night—he gave me one—he left, and the police arrived in about three minutes.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you any arms that night? A. A pike—head and a small pocket-pistol—I knew the men were to be arrested—I took the pistol and pike—head, to take off the appearance of a traitor you may call it—I did-not offer the pistol to any man in the meeting that night—Con way had the pistol in his hand, and was cutting a ball to go into it—he went out for some percussion-caps, but I do not think he had it when be went out—I told my class to meet at the Peacock at eight o'clock, that something was to lake place—I had given information then; I gave them instructions before I gare the information, but I believe not afterwards—they did not suspect me "hen I ceased to do so, as I had none to give, Pedley had to give them that night—I understand they did not think me a spy or a traitor till they were arrested—I told them to come armed if they had them, and if they had not they would be put in the way to get them—I did not know they were to be arrested then—I did not give information till the same evening.

MR. CLERK. Q. You gave information between two and three o'clock? A. Yes—I had not given the least information before that.

NICHOLAS PEARCE . I am superintendent of the F Division of Police. On 16th Aug;. I went to the Orange Tree public-house with about twenty men—we arrived a little after five o'clock, went into a room in the upper part of the house, and found eleven persons sitting round a table apparently in conversation—I requested them all to keep their seats—I do not think anything was said. but a great many of the constables rushed into the room—more than one attempted to get away—I had a pistol with me—we secured them all—I found a handkerchief under the bench they were sitting on, a little to the left of Ritchie, containing three balls, with tow on the outside tied round, one with a string, some rag and tow saturated with turpentine—I cut one 'ball open, and found some printer's type in the middle—the things all smell of turpentine—found two knives in Ritchie's pocket—I examined him more minutely at me station—his dress and hat smelt of turpentine—he declined giving his address—he told me afterwards he had lately returned from France—the eleven

men were Ritchie Gurney, Sheppard, Abel, Richardson, Burn, Greesskes Scading, Snowball, Martin, and Small

Cross-examined. Q. Did any person come out of the Orange Tree who gave information before you went in?. A. No—the men did not attermpt to make any resistance, they quietly surrendered—it was a lone bench that I found the handkerchief under—several persons were sitting on the bench—it was in the middle of the room, nearly under the centre of the bench.

JOSEPH THOMPSON re-examined. I accompanied Pearce to the Orange Tree on Wednesday night, and found this paper (marked 18) in the room—Greenslade said, "That belongs to me"—I said, "What is your name?"—he said, "Greenslade"—I saw it corresponded with his name, and kept it—(read—"This is to certify that George Greenslade and William Burn were duly elected to represent the Thomas Paine brigade at the delegate meeting to be held at the Orange Tree. Red Lion-street.W. HAMMETT, Secretary.")—after the prisoners were taken, in consequence of information, I went to 2, Cross-court, Russell-court, Drury-lane, where Ritchie lived—I knew Mr. Groves, the landlord—I was shown by his daughter into a room there, and found a hundred and seventeen ball cartridges, four bullet-moulds, four bullets, three constable balls, one powder-horn three-parts full of powder, a three half-pint bottle three-parts full of gunpowder, a bayonet, a ladle for melting lead, a piece of lead, several percussion caps, some shot, a quantity of tow, and the tricoloured band—(all produced)—this combustible ball has powder and pieces of iron in it—in Ritchie's room I found two books about the Charter, and this paper (marked B), written in pencil—(read—" This is to certify that Joseph Ritchie and Philip Martin hate been duly elected as delegates to this locality—Seven Dials and Drury-lane.")

JAMES DOWSETT . Ritchie used to live in the same house with me a little time ago. On 16th Aug. he lived in the underground kitchen, 2, Cross-court, Drury-lane—I saw Thompson find the things in that room.

SAMUEL BOHLIN . I am an undertaker, of Beech-street, Barbican. On Tuesday, 10th Aug., I was put in possession of the Orange Tree—I got then about a quarter to eleven o'clock in the morning—next day, about a quarter to three, a man came and asked if there was a room empty up stairs, as some of his shopmates were going to meet there—the landlady let him the room—two men came about a quarter to four; eleven came altogether—before five they asked me to put the bagatelle-board up—I asked one of them to lend me a hand—we put it up—they asked me for the balls—I said I did not know anything about them; the landlady said they were stolen—one of them took a round bit of chalk from the mantel-piece, and it went into No. 5 hole, which was red—he said, "Red ball, fire, by God, to-night!"—I left the room—they were together about twenty minutes before the police came—they had been talking together, but would not let me hear them; they talked low—on the following morning I found this card in the room—no one had been in the room between the police taking the men and my finding it (this was a card, certifying that Henry Small was entered as a member of the National Chartist Association on July 7th, 1848. Signed, James Snowhall)

ANTHONY RUTT . I am superintendent of the L division of police. On 16th Aug., from information 1 received, I went with several constables to the tap-room at the Angel, Webber-street—we found Winspere, Irons, Prowton, Conway, Alexander Harby, Taylor, Cox, Poole, Gibbs,. Herbert, Norton Samuel Harby, and Morgan, there, and took them in charge—we had pistols and cutlasses—I saw this pike—head found on Conway (produced)—I only saw one in the confusion—one was found under his coat.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Baldwinsio before you went into the

Angel? A. He came out, and went in—no communication passed between us—I had a communication from another party, who saw him come out.

WILLIAM COCKERILL . I was with Rutt, and searched Conway, and found these two pike—heads on him (produced.)

SAMUEL HARRISS (policeman, L 6). I accompanied Rutt on 16th Aug., and took Herbert—I saw a bundle under where he sat, containing seventy-fire rounds of ball cartridge (produced).

ROBERT SMITH (policeman, L 21). I accompanied Rutt—I took Winspere, searched him, and found this breast-plate under his waistcoat, over his shirt—this dagger was under his seat, and a sword, just outside the door, in the corner, by the urinal.

HENRY BAKER (policeman, L 111). I was one of the party at the Angel—I took Prowton, and found this dagger in bis left trowser's pocket, and this pike between bis waistcoat and jacket, this pike-guard in his hat, and this screw-wrench, to screw on the nut of the pike—head, in his pocket (producing them).

JOHN COLLINS (policeman, L 184). I took Morgan at the Angel, and found fifteen ball-cartiidges and a pike—head on him (produced).

THOMAS ROGERS (police-inspector). I was at the Angel—after the prisoners were taken, I went to Morgan's, 1, York-street, Market-street, Borough—I was shown into a room by Mr. Savage, the landlord, and found an old sword, a chair-leg, loaded with lead, outside and inside, and two cards.

ABSALOM ARNOLD (police-inspector, L). I went to Poole's, 8, Northampton-place, Walworth, and found this sword (produced).

JOHN HAYNES (police-inspector). On Wednesday, 16th Aug., between nine and ten o'clock, I went to the Charter coffee-house, kept by Lacey, in Strutton-ground, Westminster—I went over the house, and into the club-room, with Lacey—the Wallace brigade branch of the National Chartist Association met there—I found a list of members, the treasurer's-books, the Victim Fund-book, and a contribution-book—I found Thomas Jones in a room down-stairs—he was searched in my presence, and two old pistols were found in his pockets, a bayonet in his breast, a one-pound canister of gunpowder in his hat, and a box of gunpowder in his pocket (produced)—here are some ball-cartridges for pistols, and another bos of ball-cartridges.

EDWARD KENDALL . I am a sergeant of the Detective Police. I searched Jones, and found these things—I went to his lodging, and saw Inspector Walker find a cup, containing about seventy bullets, and a stick two feet long, with part of a bayonet on it—I found three pounds of lead and a quantity of metal, apparently pewter-pots melted down; that would make bullets—here is the handle of a pewter-pot in the lump.

JAMES RUSSELL (police-inspector). On 16th Aug., I went to 4, Blue Anchor-yard, Westminster, and met Young in the yard—I said I wanted to search his house—he demanded my warrant—I said I had none, but would give him my name—I heard a noise up-stairs, as if things were being put away—I went up, but did not find anything—on my return I found this pike under the window, as if it had been thrown out—I ordered Young to be detained—I found in the workshop five small bullets, and one flattened, as if discharged; a canister of powder, and several truncheons; and in the cow-shed, at the bottom of the yard, this pistol; and under a window, in the adjoining yard, some combustible balls—this truncheon is loaded with lead found this canister, with forty-six bullets in it, in a cupboard in his bedroom (producing the articles).

JANES LEWIS ASHMAN (policeman, F 1). On 17th Aug., about one o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Bow-street, and saw two persons

pass—one was Argue—I took him, and asked what he had under his coat—he said it was an umbrella—I found it was this gun (produced)—it was not loaded—I searched him at the station, and found twenty rounds of ball-cartridge, and this card of the Irish Felon-club, with his name on if.

JOSEPH THOMPSON re-examined. On 18th Aug. I went to 11, Hollings-street, Wardour-s'treet, and took Cuffes—I said he must consider himself in my custody, and told him a portion of the charge—he said, "That is quite sufficient, as I am a Chartist "—Sergeant West was with me, and began to search the room—Cuffey went to a drawer, and took something from it—we had a scuffle—it was an old pistol, loaded with ball, and primed (produced)—he tried to secrete it—his wife was there—I took the ball out by the Magistrate's orders—I also found a banner.

WILLAM WEST (policc-sergrant). I went to Cuffey's, and found this pike-handle in the cock-loft, close to a trap-door—this is the banner (produced, inscribed "Westminster District.")

GEORGE WILSON . I am landlord of the Black Jack, Portsmouth-street At the end of July, Rose engaged a room at my house for the Thursday following, for a meeting of the Trades' Committee—I was bound to let him have it, they are in the habit of meeting at my house—on the Thursday, ten or twelve people came—none of the Trades' Committee were there, to my knowledge—they came about nine o'clock, and went away about eleven—Rose said they came from a distance, and one came from Greenwich, and the meeting was rather late on that account—I knew no one but Rose.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know all the members of the Trades'Committee? A. Yes; there was a fresh committee every six weeks—I knew them after the first night, and can swear none of them were at that meeting.

THOMAS PRONGER (policeman). On loth Aug. I was appointed by my inspector to watch Laccy's movements—about five o'clock 1 saw him come from his house, and go to Constable's shop close by—he left, and a boy from Constable's went after him and spoke to him—the boy knew I was policeman—I was in plain clothes.

JEMIMA HEATH . My husband keeps the Temperance coffee-shop, Great Suffolk-street, Borough. I have known Lacey some time—he came to my house I think before the day the police came, but he came so often, I cannot recollect—one or two others were with him—I supplied them with four cups of coffee, I believe Lacey ordered them—they had it in the coffee-room upstairs—they were there a quarter or half an hour—I said there was a club met there at eight o'clock, and they went directly—I saw Lacey there after the others left, bitting in the coffee-room for an hour or half an hour.

WILLIAM THOMNS (policeman). About half-past eight o'clock, on the night of the 13th, I was near the Lord Denman beer-shop, Borough, and saw Lacey and another man go in—Lacey left almost immediately afterwards and others with him—I did not notice where they went.

JOHN JENKINSON (policeman).—On the evening of 16th Aug., about half-past eight o'clock, I was in plain clothes in front of Cartwright's coftee-shop?—I had been at Chartist meetings there, and knew it was the place of meeting of the Cripplegate locality of Chartists—I found about forty people in front of the house, mostly Irish labourers and the poorer class of people—about midnight I saw Payne coming in a dirceion from Cartwright's, with one of the people like lish labourers—I followed and watched him talking to a number of them for about ten minutes—he went away with two others.

JOSEPH HONY (policemen). I am on the Seven Dials beat. On wednesday evening. 16th Aug., I was on my beat, and saw a number of persons about in small parties in unusual numbers—must of them were strangers—

there were about twenty at first—they increased to about fifty or sixty—it was then a quarter past nine o'clock—I reported to superintendent Pearce, and an inspector was sent.

WILLIAM ROBERT BLACK (police-inspector). On Wednesday, 16th Aug., I went with a body of police to Seven Dials, about half-past nine o'clock, and found a hundred or a hundred and fifty people of the labouring-class—I knew the neighbourhood—the principal part were strangers, standing about in twos and threes, talking—I dispersed them.

Cross-examined. Was that an unusual thing in that neighbourhood. A. Yes, to see so many strangers.

HENRY JONES (policeman). On 17th Aug., about half-past four o'clock in the morning, I searched in Clerkenwell churchyard, and found this basket, containing about 200 ball cartridges—about 180 were finished, and some had ball in them and no powder, about half a pound of powder, and some percussion caps.

THOMAS MOLLISON . I am a labourer at Shouldham-street, Bryanstone-square, next door to Breadon's coffee-shop. I can see into Breadon's from my room—on 16th Aug., about half-past seven o'clock, I was at my window, and saw ten or twelve people about Breadon's door—they came in fours and fives, and increased to eighty or a hundred, walking backwards and forwards—I saw the room crowded with people—there were about forty—I saw a bright instrument forced up above their heads—I could only see about four or five inches of metal, as a man's shoulder prevented me—it was a steel blade—I went to the Police-office, and gave information.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there anything unusual in seeing that room full of people? A. I had never seen it so full before.

JOHN BAMBRIDGE (policeman). On 16th Aug., about nine o'clock in the evening, I was in Shouldham-street. I went into a yard, and on to a roof, from which I could see into the back of Breadon's beer-shop, and saw fifteen or sixteen working-men standing round the table—one was keeping the door—the window was opened while I was there—one person addressed the others, and told them to come themselves, and bring as many of their friends as they possibly could.

SAMUEL EVANS (police-inspector). I searched Mrs. Heath's, the Temperance coffee-house, on 16th Aug.—it is in the same street as the Lord Denman.

WILLIAM RANDALL . I am in the employ of Mr. Darby, an artist in fireworks. I have examined these balls—I opened one, and found it to contain about two or two and a half ounces of gunpowder, and some old nails this attached to it seems to be a slow-match—if a light were applied to that match it would be some time before it exploded—if it exploded in a crowd, probably the old nails would wound people's legs, and if thrown into a room there would be a great smoke, and it would probably set fire to the room—but if thrown in an open place it would be quite harmless—the slow-match enables a person to hold it in their hand to light it, and then it any where—I should say this match would probably burn half a minute—the outside is made of paper, with a sort of wax—if it was more confined it would be more destructive.

NICHOLAS PEARCE re-examined. I was present when the prisoner made a statement before the Magistrate—this is Mr. Henry's signature to it—(read—The prisoncr says, "I do not wish to stand here as an English factionist, but as an Irish nationalist; my object was, not to disturb English sowty, but to free my own country; I feel very well my position, and I

mean to abide by the consequences; I carried on the business of 3 portriat-painter at Nassau-street, Middlesex-hospital.")


JOHN ENGLISH . I know the prisoner—this paper of hieroglyphics (No. 11) is not my writing, but it is an exact copy of the original, which I wrote—I wrote it without any reference to the Charter—I and the prisoner agreed to hold a correspondence in hieroglyphics, and I gave this cipher to the prisoner for that purpose, as a short-hand means of correspondence—there was no use made of it at all with respect to the Charter—I gave it him without any solicitation on his part—my letters had been opened by the Post-office, and this was a plan I thought of, to write—it was more as a pastime, or a little amusement—I am not a Chartist, and I do not believe the prisoner is—I gave him the paper for no other purpose than my own private correspondence.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. What are you? A. lithographic printer, and live at 18, High-street, Marylebone—I have lived there a week or two—before that, I lived at 27, East-street, Manchester-square, for a week or so—before that I was in Ireland for about five weeks—I gave this paper to the prisoner the day before I went to Ireland—I went to Tipperary, Dublin, Kildare, and other parts of the country—I was not at Slievenamon—I know the name of it—I have the honour of being an Irish-man, but was born in London—I am a Confederate—I believe the prisoners was one, but I cannot say—I know the Davis Club, and was a member of it: the prisoner was secretary—persons must be Confederates to be members of the Davis Club—I did not go to Ireland to take views for the Illustrated London News; I went to see my friends—they live in Tipperary; some in Ceshel some in the town of Tipperary, and so on—I believed my letters have been opened at the Post-office—I am not a suspected person—I saw a letter, when I went to Ireland, that had evidently been opened; there was a receipt in it of a subscription to St. Ann's Society, directed to a gentleman in the "York-road, Westminster, which could not have got into my letter unless it had been opened—I had not been to Ireland for some years, and went to see my friends.

Q. I want an explanation of a few of these words—"Pikes," "Rife," "Killed," "Barricades," "O'Brien," "Mahoney," "Doheney," "Tippenry," "Poison," "Fire," "English:" what did you want these words for to correspond with your friend in London? A. I believed, from reading the papers here, that Ireland was in a state of insurrection, and it was necessary to use all these horrible words if I wished to give my friend a correct account of the state of things in Ireland—I intended making a list afterwards; in a dictionary perhaps—I wanted to make a short-hand of my own—it was shorter to write in cipher instead of putting the words in full—I bad a dislike to having my letters read at the Post-office, and 1 did it that they might not be read, and also that it might be shorter—it was purely for the purpose of giving the prisoner an account of the state of affairs in Ireland, and it is a sort of satisfaction to baffle persons who read your letters—this is the prisoner's handwriting—it is an exact copy of the one I wrote—I cannot read the short-hand which is at the bottom: it is a little scribbling—I did not see Doheney when I was in Ireland—I was living-at 88, Long Acre, before 1 went, for a few months before that in Milton-credent, Euston-square—I was in the employement of Mr. Moody, a lithographic printer, at 257, Holborn, and am so—I was an articled pupil to him, and have been with him nearly four years—I do not know Mullns—I never lodged with him; I have seen him—I did not go away with him—I did not see him when he was away, avoiding his arrest.

MR. KEVEALEY. Q. On your oath, bad you any disloyal purpose in giving that paper to the prisoner? A. No; it was merely for the purposes of correspondence—I perhaps should not have done it bad my letters not been opened.

JOHN ATKINSON . I am a law-stationer, of Chancery-lane. I have known the prisoner twelve or thirteen months—during that time I have had reason to believe him to be a perfectly loyal subject of Her Majesty—I never beard him express any seditious or disloyal sentiments.

JAMES GILBERT . I am a sculptor. I have known Dowling nearly ten years—I have had opportunities of knowing his sentiments on political subjects—I know no person who could have a better opportunity—we lived in the same room together—I never believed him to be a Chartist—I have heard him say be never agreed with the Charter—if he had I should have known it—I never heard him use disloyal language in private—I cannot say in public—I have very seldom heard him speak in public—he was a very quiet, retiring, reserved young man.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Do you know that he was the secretary of the Davis Club? A. Yes—I know him to be an Irish Repealer—I used to pay a subscription to the Irish Repeal Association—I have heard him speak in public—I never heard him use disloyal language—three times is the very most I have heard him, and that was in one place, and daring those three times I never heard him utter anything disloyal or seditious—I meant by private when I was sitting in his company—I never beard him in public or private say anything disloyal.

JAMES BARRY . I have known Dowling about fifteen months—I am a member of the Repeal club of which he was the secretary—that club never appointed a delegate to the Chartists—I was a member of the Davis Club—the rules of that club were settled by two eminent lawyers, Sir Colman O'Loughlin and Sir Robert Holmes, and revised by Mr. Anstey, M. P. for Youghal, who was a member of the club—that club was dissolved for the purpose of being incorporated with the Irish League on the motion of Dowling—I can swear that body was for moral force—Dowling introduced a resolution approving of the principles of the Irish League—that club was bound to legal agitation.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. How long were you a member of the club? A. About fifteen months—I remember Mr. Doheney being there, and addressing the meeting—it was the Confederation at that time—that is the same Doheney we now hear of in Ireland—I do not think he was a member of the Irish League—he was not of the Davis Club—he was there as a visitor—he came from Ireland—I cannot say whether he came as a deputation—he was received with great approbation—I do not know whether Dowling was there—he was not secretary then—he became so about 2nd—May—a person named Crowe was a member—I was present last Session when he was convicted—I was present at the meeting when he delivered the speech on which he was convicted—I do not recollect whether Dowling was there—it was alleged that Crowe was present when somebody read a paper with the expression, "to hell with the Queen "—it was I that read that.

MR. KENEALEY. Q. Now explain it. A. I was reading the last accounts from Ireland in the Evening Express, and there was a report of a man who was taken up in Limerick on a charge of being drunk and using seditious language, and with saying, "To hell with the Queen "—some persons laughed when it was read, but there was no cheering or any manifestation of applause I was in Court when those words were proved—Mr. Parry called

no witnesses—I was prepared to swear Crowe never uttered those words—my reading them was brought in evidence against Crowe.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. What are you? A. I am a tailor, and have lived at 18, High-street,—Marylebone, about a fortnight—before that I lived in East-street, Manchester-square, I lived there four or five months—before—that I lived at 83, Wells-street, Oxford-street, with a man named Dempsey—I have not been in Ireland for eight years—I am not a Chartist—I went to the Repeal meetings—the Repealers held their meetings at the same home as the Chartists, but on different nights—there was no connection between the two bodies—they never communicated with each other to my knowledge—I was not present in Dean-street when Looney was sent as a deputation; to the Chartists—he was a member—he was convicted last Session—I was present at his speech which they called seditious—I did not go to the police and tell them seditious speeches were being made—I did not consider myself a judge of a seditious speech—I never heard of Looney going from the Davis Club to the Chartist's hall, Lambeth—he did not belong to Dean-street—I never bought arms in my life—I raffled a musket a month or it weeks ago—Mahoney won it—my brother gave it me—he said it was unless to him, and I could raffle it if I thought proper—he is a tailor, and lives at 37, Lark-street, Manchester-square—I raffled it to get rid of it—it was quite useless to me—twenty-eight people put their names down—that would be 28s.—they were not Confederates—I do not believe Mahoney is a members of the Davis Club—he was not a member of any club that I am aware of—I know nothing of the Felon Club or where it held its meetings—I think Mahoney is a tailor, and that his name is Timothy—I do not not know when he lives—I know several of the persons who raffled—there was a gentleman named Sturgeon, and John Callahan, and my brother—they used to go to the Three Tuns, in Moor-street, Seven Dials—the Confederates never met there that I am aware of—it is kept by Naigle—I believe Callahan is a printer—he was a member of the club—I do not know that Sturgeon was; I do not know his Christian name or where he lives, I have seen him in the club—there was a man named Fox, I do not know where he lived, and a man named use-Carey, who lived, I think, in Cleveland-street, Fitzroy-square—he is a printer, and was a member of our club.

MR. LE PLAISTERER . I am a watch-maker, of Chancery-lane. I have known Dowling about eleven months—I have never heard him espress any seditious or disloyal language—I have seen him six or eight times.

GUILTY . Aged 24.— Transported for Life.

NEW COURT.—Friday, Sept. 22nd, 1848.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2128
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

2128. JOHN SPENCE and JOSEPH CHEVERALL , stealing 1 hand-kerchief, value 2s.; the goods of John Simon Haggett, from his persons Spence having been before convicted; to which

SPENCE pleaded GUILTY . Aged 13.— Confined One Year.

CHEVERALL pleaded GUILTY . Aged 14.— Confined Six Months

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2129
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2129. HENRY HASSALL , embezzling 1l. 15s. 6d., the moneys of John Whitmee and another; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2130
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2130. THOMAS HENLEY , stealing 5 work-boxes, value 17s.; the goods of William Thomas Leek, to which he pleaded

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2131
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2131. EMMA GILES , stealing 2 shirts, value 10s.; the goods of John Gould, her master, to which she pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2132
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2132. MARY ANN CHAPMAN , stealing 4 sovereigns, I half-sovereign, 2 half-crowns, and 8 shillings; the moneys of Jonathan Chapman, Jan., in the dwelling-house of Jonathan Chapman, sen., to which she pleaded

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2133
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2133. CHARLES THOMAS BEST , stealing 1 pistol, value 15s.; the goods of Isaac Jacobson.

WILLIAM COX . I am groom to Mr. Isaac Jacobson of 315, Oxford-street. I have known the prisoner about three weeks—he has been employed at an exhibition next door to us—he spoke to me about a pistol that was in a glass-case, and said if I got it for him he would give me half-a-crown down, and sixpence a week afterwards—I told the shopman of it, and he acquainted Mr. Jacobson—in consequence of Mr. Jacobson and the shopman's permission, I took the pistol and put it on a box in the yard—I told the prisoner there was the pistol, and he took it—he gave me a shilling, and he was taken in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. Is this the first time you have had anything to do with things of this sort? A. I was once convicted—I am twenty-two years of age—I was not tried for felony, I was accused of taking an order written by another young man, and obtaining some cloth—the other young man got clear away—I "had six months—I have not been taken up for anything else, only for being intoxicated—when the prisoner was taken I think he took the pistol from his pocket—he did not say that I had told him the pistol was my own—he said he wanted a pistol to give to his father—I swear I did not tell him it was my own and I wanted to sell it—he gave me a sixpence and two fourpenny-pieces—I do not know how he came to make this proposal to me—my master had an excellent character with me from a gentleman in Dover-street—I left prison last Nov.—I then went into the employ of a potato-salesman in Newport-market—I then went to a gentle-man in Dover-street, who is President of the College of Physicians—I took the footman's place there—I left because I was not big enough to go behind the carriage—I then went to Mr. Jacobson—I am not much in the shop—I am out with the horse and cart.

JOHN SMITH (policeman, C 126). I took the prisoner in custody as he was leaving the gate-way, for inciting Cox to commit felony—he pointed to Cos and said he gave him the pistol—I found on the prisoner three pieces of old metal, a life-preserver, and three dressing-case fittings.

JACOB MYERS . I am shopman to Mr. Jacobson. Cox spoke to me, and took this pistol from a glass-case and carried it into the stable-yard by—Mr. Jacobson's direction—there is another pistol which with this forms a pair.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2134
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2134. CHARLES THOMAS BEST was again indicted for stealing 1 life-preserver, 3lbs. metal, and other articles, value 5s. 6d.; the goods of Isaac Jacobson.

JOHN SUNN (policeman, C 126). I took the prisoner—I found on him this life-preserver. these pieces of metal, and three dressing-case fittings.

WILLIAM COX . On the Saturday morning these things were put up in a lot in the stable, to be sent off to be sold by auction—I know nothing about—the life-preserver—these brass pieces belong to a hall-lamp—I do not know how these things got out of the stable—I did not band them to anybody—they were not to be sold on the premises.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. Were they put with the the pistol? A. No, they were in the stable—I found them there when I went—that stable is not my department as groom; it is for goods—no one can get to it unless they went down the stable-yard or through the shop—the prisoner's master had his dog and sheep in the adjoining stable.

JACOB MYERS . I saw these things in the stable in the morning, and in the evening when the prisoner was taken they were found on him—I knew this life-preserver by a mark—it had been hanging in the shop—these fitting were in the stable piled up—they may be odd ones—they are of little value—these pieces of brass are part of an ormolu candlestick—I saw it as a candlestick a week before it was taken.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you break it? A. No—I do not know whether the prisoner did—his mother keeps a marine-store shop—it was his duty to be in the stable, but I never saw him in the part where these thing were.

GEORGE JACKSON . My father is a carpenter, he was at work at Mr. Jacobson's—I did not give this life-preserver to the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not give it him? A. No, he snatched it out of my hand—he said, "This will do for me to call my customers this evening"—he did not tell me I was knocking the pictures about with it—I did not know but he would return it—I did not tell the shopman—I thought he saw it—he was about a yard from me—I think he must have heard what the prisoner said.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2135
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

2135. JAMES HUDSON , was indicted for embezzlement.

THOMAS ABBOTT . I live in Pound's-place. I paid the prisoner 6s. on 28th Aug., for the caravan which he drove—he had four horses.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You employed Mr. Shaw to do the job and the prisoner drove the van? A. Yes.

HENRY SHAW . I was employed to remove goods from Walworth to Hoxton by Mr. Abbot—I hired a horse and van of Mr. Eyke, and the prisoner went with it.

JOHN EYKE . I am a carman in Middleton-street. The prisoner was in my employ—he has not accounted to me for 6s., received from Mr. Abbott—he ought to have told the clerk, that he might enter it, and have paid the money to him—a person came to inquire who took the goods, I referred to the bock and it was not entered—I then referred to the order, and found it was the prisoner—I sent for him and said, "Did you do a job for Mr. Shaw on Monday?"—he said yes, and he was two hours and a half about it—he said "He only gave me 3s. 9d."—I said, "Why did you not pay that in?—he said, "I don't know"—I said, "Where did you take these things to?—he said, "I shan't tell you, you may find it out."

Cross-examined. Q. Did you pay him his wages? A. Yes he had 15s. a week—he would have received it on the following Saturday.

JOHN TORBOCK . I am clerk to Mr. Eyke. The prisonex did not acount to me for this 6s.

Cross-examined. Q. Were not moneys sometimes paid several days after they were received? A. Not to my knowledge—I have been clerk there

about six months—I am away to my dinner and tea, but there are two other clerks—I was there on the evening in question from six till nine.

(The prisoner received a good character.) GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor and Jury.— Confined Two Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2136
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2136. SAUNDERS ROSENBURG , stealing 1 watch and 1 guard-chain, ralue 10l., the goods of James Sutton, in his dwelling-house.

MR. PREXDERGAST conducted the Prosecution.

EMILY SHAPJCAND SUTTON . I am the wife of James Sutton—we live in Richmond-terrace, Dalston in the parish of St. John, Hackney. The prisoner came on 5th May, and took a lodging for eight weeks—I was to board him—he gave the name of Parry, said he was a merchant just come from Bourdeaux, and lad a great many goods at the Custom-house—he showed me several samples—on the next Wednesday he borrowed 3s. 6d. of me, and afterwards got 6l. from me, to make up some money to pay the Custom-house duty—he said he bad 195l. to pay, and would I lend him 6l. to make it up—when he had got the 6l. he left the house—I received a note the same evening, not in his writing, but the signature to it was his—I did not see him again till I saw him at Worship-street—I did not miss anything on the day he left, but the nest day I missed a gold watch and chain, and pocket-book—he had seen me put the watch and chain into my writing-desk on the sideboard, on the Wednesday evening—the watch was out of repair—it wanted something, which the prisoner said he could do—he had done something to a kitchen clock, and put, that to rights—I never saw the watch again till I was at Worship-street—I went with my husband and a gentleman to the Custom-house—we made inquiries, but there were no goods, and no such person known—we gave information to the police.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did he say he would repair the watch? A. No, he said he would look at it—he said he understood watches, and my Geneva watch was out of repair—I did not give it him—he took it in his hand, and placed it in my hand again, and I placed it in my writing-desk—I remember the day he went—I did not say on the day after, "Dear me, how stupid it was of me to give him my watch to repair!"

FREDERICK FOX . I am a pawnbroker, in Old-street-road. This watch and chain were pawned by Richards, about the 24th May, with a metal watch, for 3l. 10s.—the watch is worth about 3l., and the chain about 30s.

JANE RICHARDS . I am the wife of John Richards—we live in King-street, Finnsbury. The prisoner came to my house on Thursday, 11th May—he said he was a foreign merchant, and dealt in silks, velvets, champagne, and other rones—he said he had 4000l. worth of goods at the Custom-house, and 300l. was due to him for goods which he had sold on a former occasion—he hired two rooms of me, and was to pay weekly—I asked for a reference—he took out a well-furnished purse, and said his money was his reference, he would pay beforehand, and he said he paid for everything as he had it—on the Monday afterwards he said he had 300l. to pay for goods, and he was 8l. short if I would lend him that he would leave the two watches on my table I lent him the 8l.—he went away, and I never saw him till he was at Wrohisnip-street—he told me he had property in one of my cupboards, which he left locked—we found the key in his bed-room, we opened the cupboard, and there was nothing there—I pawned the watches a few days afterwards—these are them.

HENRY TATE (police-sergeant, G 2). I took the prisoner in Featherstone. street.

MRS. SUTTON re-examined. This is my watch—I have had it four years—it cost fifteen guineas.

(HERMAN GASLING, a tailor, of Leadenhall-street; and Mrs. Cantor, of the Minories; gave the prisoner a good character.)

GUILTY of Larceny. Aged 60.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2137
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2137. ADOLPH VON ZWEHL , stealing 1 electrical machine, and other articles, value 8l. 9s. 6d., the goods of George Simpson.

MR. CHARNOCK conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE SIMPSON . I am a chemist, and live at Kennington. On 21st Aug. I saw the prisoner at Mr. Nesbitt's, and after I got home he Came to me, and said, "I have just come from Mr. Nesbitt's; I might as well have walked over with you; I want an electrifying machine, and some other things, for a friend at the Cape of Good Hope, and Mr. Nesbitt sent me to you"—I sold him an electrical galvanic coil machine, for five guineas, and this electrifying machine—they were ordered to be put up, and sent on the Wednesday, as they were wanted for shipment on the Thursday—he said he thought his friend knew as little as he himself did of what the things were—he directed me to pack them, so that they would go without damage—he said, "If you send them on Wednesday, before twelve o'clock, I shall be at home, and will send back the money"—I was to send a receipt, and he engaged to send back the money—I sent Butt on the Wednesday, and told him to bring back either the goods or the money, and not to deliver them without being paid—I sent, an invoice with them, and a blank stamped receipt—this is the invoice, 9l. 1s. 6d., the discount of 1l. having been allowed, as they were required for exportation—Butt returned without the goods or the money—I went on the Thursday morning, but did not see the prisoner—I saw him about half-past eleven o'clock—he apologized first for not sending the money back, and not meeting me at Mr. Nesbitt's—he said, "I have a German bill here, can you give me the difference out?"—I objected—he said he would meet me at his agent's, at No. 14, London-street, at half-past four o'clock, and he went away—I went there—he did not come—I went to his house—he was not In—I waited, and he came—he appeared surprised, but said if I would walk out with him he would explain it—I objected to walking out, and walked into the parlour, having previously seen the empty case of the instruments, and this ivory plate, having my name on it, having been reversed, the wrong side turned out and polished—I said to him, "Have you pawned those things?"—he said, "No, I have taken them to a private friend, to show me how to use them"—I said, "But you said they were to be shipped to-day"—he said he had been disappointed in shipping—I then asked him to tell me who his friend was where the things were; and, after some hesitation, he said he lived in Holborn, but he did not know the exact address; he was in apartments—I said, "Is it too late, can we see him to-night?"—he said, "I am afraid it is too late"—a cab was obtained, we got into it; and when we got to Holborn-bridge, I said to him, "If these things are pawned, it is no use playing the fool with me to take me further"—he said, "They are, this is the duplicate"—this is the electrifying machine—the ivory plate has been taken out and turned—I never intended to part with these things without the money—those were my express directions, and that was my bargain with the prisoner.

Prisoner. There was no bargain made. Witness. He said, "Send the goods, and I will send back the morney"—I am sure he used those words.

EDWARD NORTHWAY BUTT . I took these two articles on 23rd Aug. to the prisoner—my directions were, not to leave the goods without the money—I saw them packed in packing-cases, and the name was on the plate—when I the to the prisoner's house, he asked me if I had brought the things from Mr. Simpson's, and if I had brought the bill and receipt—I said, "Yes"—he said he had a German bill, could I give him the change out—I said, I could not say anything about that, he had better speak to Mr. Simpson—I said, I was to take back the money or the goods—he said he should see Mr. Simpson at Mr. Nesbitt's—he said he should want some more things, and he would speak to Mr. Simpson—he asked me what time Mr. Simpson would go to Mr. Nesbitt's—I said, "About nine o'clock.

Prisoner. After I offered you the German bill, I said, if you liked to take the goods back, you might, and I added, it was immaterial to me whether I had the things at that time or afterwards. A. Yes; you did—you said you were going to meet Mr. Simpson, it could not make much difference—I did not see the German bill.

GEORGE WEBB . I am a pawnbroker, of Holborn. This machine was pawned at my shop, by the prisoner, on 23rd Aug., I think, between six and seven o'clock, for 35s.

JOHN COLLIS NESBITT . I know the prisoner—he was formerly a teacher of German in my school. On 21st Aug. Mr. Simpson called to see me, and while he was there the prisoner called—I had not seen him for perhaps four years—I requested him to sit down while I spoke to Mr. Simpson, and during that time I asked Mr. Simpson to come to supper on the Wednesday evening—I did not invite the prisoner—after he was gone, the prisoner said lie was a merchant in Hamburgh, and be wanted some electrical apparatus to send to a friend at Malta; would I be so good as to tell him where he could get them—I said at several places, and amongst others, Mr. Simpson's. Egbert Ford (policeman, N 188). I took the prisoner.

Prisoner's Defence. I wanted them for myself, though I stated they were for exportation, to get them cheaper; I took the electrifying machine to a shop in Holborn, where I found it was too small for operating; at the same time a larger one was offered me, for twelve guineas, which I refused, and not being willing to take the other back, I put it in pawn; I fully intended to pay Mr. Simpson.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2138
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2138. ADOLPH VON ZWEHL , again indicted for stealing 1 coat and other wearing apparel, value 3l. 15s.; the goods of James Macken.

WORTHINGTON STRINGER LODGE . I am foreman to Mr. James Macken, a tailor, of Little Knightrider-street, St. James's. I saw the prisoner on 31st July—he told me he was going to Osborne-house, to be presented to the Queen and Prince Albert—he had before sent a letter, saying that he required a Court dress, to go to Osborne-house, and I saw him on the subject of the letter at 20, Duncan-terrace, Islington—he hired these things, he did not buy them—I let him have them, and he was to return them in two days from Osborne-house—he was to pay his respects to the Queen as a clergyman, in the name of the Rev. Mr. Liebaiel—I sent him the things, a black coat, waistcoat, and breeches; a cocked-hat, and shoes, and knee-buckles, and a white stock—he said he would return them by a Queen's messenger, he could get them sent to Buckingham Palace for half-a-crown, and then they could he seat to us—he was to pay three guineas for them—we never got the things back—we sent to Osborne-house, and he was never known there.

WILLIAM ATLEE (policeman, L 110). I went to 20, Duncan-terrace where I found this card-plate and some cards, "Rev. A. C. Liebaiel, Bombay"

GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years on the first indictment.

(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2139
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2139. JAMES SMITH was indicted for embezzlement.

ELLEN PEARCE . I am cook to Mr. Hogg, a tailor, of 40, St. James's-street—he deals with Mr. Bond for milk—I gave the prisoner a check of my master's, on Glyn's, for 5l. 16s. 6d. in Jan. last, for a bill for milk—this is the check (produced).

THOMAS SMITH . I live in Carlton-chambers, Regent-street. I take is milk of Mr. Bond—I paid the prisoner one shilling on 24th June.

GEORGE BOND . The prisoner was in my employ—he did not account to me for this check of Mr. Hogg's, nor for the shilling from Mr. Smith—he has lived with me five years—I had great confidence in him.

Prisoner, The money very frequently went six days without booking Witness. Never, nor four days—a large number of bills which I thought were due were found on you.

Prisoner's Defence. It was my duty to take all moneys of the customer I served, and to take it home every night, which I did; my master was frequeutly out of the way, sometimes for four or six days; it is a rule to court my money on the table; if my mistress is in the way, she takes it, and if not, the servant-maid; I left the check at home; I cannot recollect with whom.

GEORGE BOND re-examined. I have no one in my house but my wife and myself—I have a little girl, but she takes no money.

JOHN SIMONS (policeman, E 111). I took the prisoner—I have produced the check which has been returned to Mr. Hogg, from his banker's.

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, September 22nd, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the First Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2140
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2140. WALTER KING , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Hawkins, and stealing 1 chest and 81lbs. weight of tea, value 17l. 19s. 8d., his goods; and 1 coat, 2 waistcoats, 4 aprons, and 11 shirts value 1l. 8s. 6d., of Henry Jacobs.

EDWARD WIGLEY (policeman, H 141). On 2nd Sept., about two o'clock in the morning, I saw the prisoner and another man coming out of Buckle-street into Plough-street—the prisoner was carrying a bag; I crossed over to him—he threw it down and ran away—I followed him, springing my rattle—he was stopped by Gray—I had only lost sight of him for half a second, a he turned a corner—I went back, and found a bag of tea and pepper where he had dropped the bundle, and a bundle of clothes a few yards off—I went to where the other man had stood, and found a chest of tea and a dark lantern—I found 3s. 3 1/2 d. in copper and some lucifers on the prisoner.

Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Did you find a pipe on him? A. I think not; I found some tobacco—I saw no bundle when they were in

Buckle-street—I was about forty yards from him then—a female came from them in Red Lion-street, as if she had been talking to them, and I found the chest of tea there, on some ruins—seven or eight minutes elapsed between my seeing him in Buckle-street and in Plough-street—I had been down Nelson-street in the time—his face was to me when he threw down the bundle—he was ten yards from me.

JOSEPH BRAT (policeman, H 43). On 2nd Sept. I saw the prisoner in Leman-street, Whitechapel—a policeman caught him—he got away—I caught him—he got away twice—I caught him a third time, and he dragged me several yards.

HENRY JACOBS . I am in the employ of John Hawkins, a grocer, of Half-moon-passage, Whitechapel—this package and chest of tea and pepper are his—they were safe at nine o'clock, when I locked up the warehouse and left it secure—next morning, about a quarter to eight, I found the skylight open and propped up—the things must have been taken that way.

Cross-examined. Q. Had your master been there before you? A. Yes—he has three or four porters.

JAMES CHAPMAN (policeman). I found a loop-hole open at four o'clock in the morning, and a piece of rope lying on the stones—I had seen the premises safe that night.

Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner appear to have been drinking? A. Yes.

THOMAS KYLEY (police sergeant). I found this iron hook, and traced marks of it all up the house to the skylight—it would fasten to the skylight, and they could get up.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY of Stealing only. Aged 25.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Twelve Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2141
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

2141. JOSEPH WARD was indicted -for embezzlement.

THOMAS TERTIUS FLATHER . I am an oilman, of Queen's-buildings, Knigbtsbridge—the prisoner was in my service, to obtain orders and collect money, which he should enter in a book, and pay to me or my foreman, who would sign the book for each sum—this "Joseph Ward" on these bills of Mrs. Wherry are the prisoner's writing—they are for 1l. 16s. on 2nd Aug., 1l. 17s. on 23rd Aug., and 1l. 16s. on 13th Sept.—I received this bill from Mrs. Mealing for 1l. 3s. 9 1/2 d., on 5th July—this "Received, J. Ward" is the prisoner's writing—there is no receipt of money from Mrs. Mealing entered in the book that day—he did not pay me that or these of 15s. 0 1/2 d. and 3s. 9 1/2 d. from Mrs. Mealing on the same day—here is in the book 10s. instead of 18s. 10d.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did not you have a very good character with him? A. Yes—his brother made me no direct offer to pay the money.

MARY ANN WHERRY . I am the wife of James Wherry—I paid the prisoner 1l. 7s. 6d. and 1l. 16s. for Mr. Flather—he gave me this receipt.

MATILDA MEALING . I paid the prisoner 18s. 10d. and 1l. 3s. 9 1/2 d. for Mr. Flather—these are the receipts he gave.

WILLIAM PHELP'S (policeman, A 242). I took the prisoner, and told him the charge—he said he was very sorry for it; he hoped Mr. Flather would furgive him.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say he knew he had done wrong? A. Yes, on the way to the station.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 35.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Four Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2142
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2142. DANIEL BROWN , stealing 2 brooches, 3 shawls. I Victorine and other articles, value 1l. 18s. 6d.; the goods of Frederick Crayder; having before convicted.

MARY CRAYDIR I am the wife of John Frederick Crayder. On 29th March I was at my stall; my little girl fetched me—I saw the prisoner, and took him to some houses, which I had the keys of; he is the landlord's son—I left him in my parlour, to wait till his father came—I went to my stall, and sent my litle girl home—I afterwards went back, and the prisoner went away—next morning I missed these articles stated from a box in my bed-room—it was locked, but was broken across the middle—I have not seen them since; I also missed an image from the parlour shelf—they were my husband's.

MARY CRAYDLR . I am eight years old, and live with my mother. I was at home by myself—the prisoner came and asked for the key of the empty houses—I gave it him, and went to my mother—he afterwards asked me where my father's best clothes were—I said I did not know—he went to the box, and said there was not room enough in it, he took a bundle of clothes down stairs, and sent me out for a basket—I got one—it would not do, and he sent me out again—he said he should be up the court—he came back again, and gave me 3d. for me and 3d. for my sister, who was there, and went away loaded.

ELIZABETH ANN MALAN . I am the wife of James Malan, of Cumberland-place, Eethnal-green, and lived nearly opposite Mrs. Crayder's. On 29th March, between two and three o'clock, I saw the prisoner go to her house—I knew him—he had nothing with him—he asked me if I had a basket to lend him, as he had purchased some crockery at Mrs. Crayder's stall—I offered him a currant-sieve, but he said he wanted it dose—I afterwards saw him up at Mrs. Crayder's window—about five o'clock he came out with a cape on, and a bundle under each arm.

THOMAS CARDNO (policeman, K 109). I was on duty in Orchard-street, heard a cry of "Stop thief!" saw the prisoner running, and stopped him—his father came up, and told me to take him to Mrs. Crayder's.

JOHN POULTER . I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(read—Convicted Aug., 1847, and confined three months)—I was present—he is the person.

GUILTY . Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2143
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2143. THOMAS HARLOCK , stealing 1 sash-frame, value 7s.; the goods of William Barratt; having been before convicted.

WILLIAM BARRATT . I am a builder, of Albion-place, Ratclifie. This sash is mine—I saw it safe on 11th Sept., at seven o'clock, and missed it at eleven.

THOMAS CARDNO (policeman). On 11th Sept., about half-past ten o'clock, I stopped the prisoner with this sash—he said he bought it of Larry, in Butcher's-row, and was taking it to Bethnal-green—he then said he bought it of Mr. Foster—I took him in charge.

ABRAHAM EAREE . I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(read—Convicted June. 1843, and confined two months)—I was present—he is the man.

GUILTY . Aged 42.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2144
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Not Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2144. CHARLES HOOPER and JOHN HOOPER , stealing 2 tame fowls, value 2s. 9d.; the goods of Richard Harper; John having been twice before convicted; to which

JOHN HOOPER pleaded GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.

EDWARD WILKIS (policeman, H 113). On 16th Sept., about half-past five o'clock in the morning, I saw the prisoners running in Brownlow-street, Bethnal-green—each had something in his hand—I ran after them, but could not catch them—John dropped a basket—I picked it up—it had this fowl in it (produced)—I took him next morning, at his father's, and found a dead fowl in the yard.

WILLIAM BULL (policeman). I took Charles at his father's—he said he had nothing to do with stealing it; his brother and another boy stole it.

FRANCES MARY HARPER . I am the wife of Richard Harper. This fowl is his, and so is the dead one—they were safe on the 18th, at eight o'clock in the evening.

Charles's Defence. I was asleep.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2145
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2145. SARAH ERRINGTON and ELIZABETH WESLEY , stealing 5 shillings, the moneys of Henry Thomas Janes, from his person; Wesley having been before convicted.

HENRY THOMAS JONES . I am a clerk, and live in Chapel-street, Westminster. On 17th Sept., between twelve and one o'clock in the morning, Errington came up to me in King-street, Westminster—Wesley followed about a hundred yards behind—when I got to St. Ann-street, Errington said, "Now you have brought me all this way, I am determined you shall give me something"—I said, "You came of your own accord"—she said, "If you don't, I will knock your brains out"—two men popped from a court, and stood on each side of me—I gave Errington 6d. to let me go—I then felt 6s. in my pocket—she asked Wesley to see if it was a good one, and said, "That won't do for me, I must have more"—I said, "I can't give you more; if you do not let me go I shall call the police"—she collared me, rent my coat open, put her hand into my pocket, took 5s., and they all ran away—I called a policeman, and described them—I afterwards found them at the station—I am sure of them—I was quite sober.

WILLIAM WARD LOW (policeman, A 238). I met Jones in Orchard-street—he was perfectly sober—he described the prisoners—I gave the description to another constable—and they were taken—they both denied all knowledge of it, and declared they had had no money in their possession the whole night, 2nd had been over the water the whole evening.

WILLIAM NOWLAN (policeman, B 56). I produce a certificate of Wesley's conviction—(read—Convicted Oct., 1847, and confined six months)—she is he person.



Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2146
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2146. JOSIAH MUMFORD was indicted for embezzlement.

JANE BRYAN . I live in Victoria-street. I owed Mr. Hickman 1l. 15s.—on 6th Sept. I paid the prisoner 2s. 6d. for him, in part payment.

CATHERINE HAYES . I live in Hungerford-street. I owed Mr. Hickman 2s.—I paid the prisoner 1s., and produce his receipt.

BENJAMIN BOURNE HICKMAN . I am an undertaker, the prisoner was in my employ. He did not pay me 2s. 6d. from Mrs. Bryan, or 2s. from Mrs. Hayes—I did not send him for the money—I had sent him for it on the Wednesday, but he was not authorized to go on this evening—he was not my servant on this occasion.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2147
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > pleaded guilty
SentencesImprisonment; Corporal > whipping; Imprisonment

Related Material

2147. EDWARD STEEDMAN , stealing 1 coat, 1 pair of trowsers, and 1 waistcoat, value 3l. 16s., the goods of Charles Sleetlman; and GEORGE SIMMONS receiving the same; to which

SEEKDMAN pleaded GUILTY . * Aged 14.— Confined Eight Days, and Whipped.

SIMMONS pleaded GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2148
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2148. JOHN PAPPS , stealing 1 watch, value 10/., the goods of Joseph Christopher Paul, in his dwelling-house; and JOHN HASWELL felonious; receiving the same.

JANU PAUL . I am the wife of Joseph Christopher Paul, of New-stree, in the parish of St. Dunstan, Stepney—it is his dwelling-house. Last Thursday three weeks he left his watch on the kitchen mantel-piece—I saw it safe there at eleven o'clock—Papps, who lodged in the house, came into the kitchen about one—he went out, and I missed the watch in about a quarter of an hour—it is jewelled in ten holes, and worth ten guineas—I afterwards found Papps nt the Cricket-ground at Bow, and gave him in charge—on the Saturday Haswell came, and asked me to give him Papps' shirt—I asked who told him Papps was in prison—he said a tall man—I told him to come for the shirt in the evening—he came, and I gave him in charge.

WILLIAM WOODHURST . I am a willow-worker, of 10, Lonas-huildings. I saw Unwell at Mile-end-road—he said he was about to emigrate to Sidney—I asked why—he said he wished to leave the country through fear about a watch which had been stolen, but he was innocent of stealing it—I asked why he was afraid—he said, "To tell you the truth I received it, and soldi'. to a Jew in Petticoat-lane for 2l. 10s.;" that he had got 30s. at home In his box, and had bough: those clothes with the remainder—I went with him to Clerkenwell prison, left him outside, and gave information.

JOHN CLOVER (policeman, G 156). I took Haswell—he said he shouli speak the truth, he received the watch of Papps, and sold it to a Jewc in Petticoat-lane for 2l. 7s. 6d.

THOMAS SHOVE . I live in Green-street, Bethnal-green. I was at Bow Cricket-ground—Papps came there about ten minutes to two o'clock—a young man came, and they both went away together—Papps came back by himself, and was taken—he had asked me at ten that morning if I wanted to buy a watch, and said he had it at home in his box—I said, "No," and asked why he did not wear it—he said it had stopped.

JOHN LORTO BAKER (policeman, K 29). I took Papps on 31st Aug.—he was told Mr. Paul's watch was gone—he said, "Is it though?" turning very pale; "I saw the watch-case, "—I went with Haswell to show me where he had sold it; he said he had thrown the case away.

Papp's Drfence. My father, who is a captain, was going to sea, and promised me some money, but gave me a watch instead; that was the one I gave Haswell to sell, as he wanted me to lend him 10s.; it was jewelled in four holes, and was not the one in question.

Haswews Defence. I asked Papps to lend me 10s.; he could not, but asked me to pawn the watch; I sold it.

PAPPS— GUILTY . Aged 20.


Confined Twelve Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2149
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

2149. WILLIAM SERJEANT , stealing 4 half-crowns, 15s., and 36 sixpences, the moneys of William Masters, his master.

WILLIAM MASTERS . I keep the Bricklayer's Arms, Hackney-road—the

prisoner was in my service. On 18th Sept. I had a quart-pot with 2l. in silver, and 11d. in copper in it—Skeggs told me something about five o'clock, and I missed all the silver—there were four half-crowns amongst it—the prisoner had left the house without leave—I gave information.

Prisoner. The money was in my possession; I had not given it up to you. Witness. You had.

ROBERT SKEGGS . I am twelve years old, and am pot-boy to Mr. Masters. On 18th Sept., about half-past three o'clock, I saw the prisoner in the kitchen with a pint pot with silver and copper in it—he turned it out on the copper-lid, and put the coppers back—I did not see what he did with the silver.

EDWARD BRISTOW (policeman, K 122). About half-past eleven o'clock, on 18th Sept., I took the prisoner, and found 21s. in silver upon him, and 2 1/2 d. in copper.

Prisoner's Defence. I have to take out beer, and settle for it weekly; I put the money in the bar, and tike change when I want it; I found I was short, and went out to receive some money; I should have returned to settle with my master.

WILLIAM MASTERS re-examined. When the money was put into the pot he had no right to touch it—his work commenced at eight o'clock, but he did not come back.

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Four Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2150
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2150. MARY BROWN SMITH , stealing two sovereigns, and 1 half-sovereign, the moneys of John Turnbull, from his person.

JOHN TURNBULL . I am a seaman, and live at Dean-street, Sbadwell. I was at the Old Rose with the prisoner, her sister, and another woman—we all drunk there till twenty minutes past twelve o'clock—they disappeared all of a sudden, and I missed two sovereigns-and a half, and some silver from my left waistcoat pocket—it was safe when I paid for some drink—the prisoner would not keep off me—I could not smoke my pipe, she came so close on my left side—the others were some distance off—I knew her sister three years ago—I went there in a cab and told the policeman—I think the prisoner gave a young man some money who spoke to her.

WILLIAM SPEARY (policeman, K 343). I took the prisoner at the Hermit—she said she knew nothing about it—I know where she lives.

HUGH BROSNAHAN (policeman, K 261). Speary showed me the prisoner's room—I found a sovereign there between the sacking and the mattress.

Prisoner's Defence. He lent two of his shipmates some money; another girl sat on his left, and not me.


NEW COURT.—Saturday, September 23rd, 1848.

PRESENT—Sir John Key, Bart., Aid.; Mr. Aid. GIBBS; and Mr. Aid. Fikms.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Eighth Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2151
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation
SentenceNo Punishment > sentence respited

Related Material

2151. CHARLES ABELL , stealing, I cask and 18 gallons of beer, value 32s., the goods of Sir Henry Meux and another, his masters.

MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD LATJMER . I am clerk to Sir Henry Meux and another—the prisoner was their carman. On Saturday, 9th Sept., I gave him two delivery-notes for a kilderkin of single stout, and five barrels of porter, to take to

Red Lion-wharf, Thames-street—that was all he was to take, except as empty cask—I afterwards saw them on the dray—there was one cask more than I had given him orders for—I told Mr. Jenkins.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. How many clerks are there besides you who give orders to draymen? A. Two; but there was nobodv else on that occasion who interfered with the loading—these are the deliverv-notes-between the lime I gave them to the prisoner and the time 1 saw the kill-derkin, a quarter of an hour miirht have elapsed—the dray had been draw. from the loading-place to the middle of the yard; all the men could see it-Karr is in our employ—he is a labouring man—he has no power of giving orders, except as a messenger—I have no doubt I have suit Firr with a message to the prisoner—the prisoner has said that Farr told him to take this kilderkin—if he had, the prisoner ought to have come to me for a note—I do not know of beer being delivered to a customer without a delivm-note—it may have been the case by accident.

MR. CLARKXON. Q. Did the prisoner know that it was his duty not to take beer without a delivery-note? A. Yes—Farr was taken the same day—Jenkins might have given orders—Dove was not in town.

CUTHBERT FOTTS . I am a cooper, in the employ of Sir Henry Meux And Co. On Saturday, 9th Sept., I saw the prisoner, about eleven o'clock, rolling a cask of double stout across the yard to his dray—he and Edwards loaded it—(the delivery-note is for a cask of single stout and five barrels of porter—the men cannot possibly know whether the person who is taking tie beer to the wagons has a delivery-note)—there was at that time one kilderkin of single stout and five barrels of porter in the load, and an emptv kilderkin—I told Mr. Jenkins what I had seen.

Cross-examined. Q. How long has the prisoner been in the employ? A. Seven or eight years—there were a great many people in the yard—he had to roll the cask eight or ten yards.

HENRY BATEMAS JENKINS . I am storehouse-clerk to the prosecutors. On 9th Sept. I saw the prisoner with his dray—I noticed five barrels of porter and one kilderkin of single stout, an empty kilderkin, and one kilderkin of double stout on the dray—I gave directions to Mr. Merritt, and he and I intended to follow prisoner, but we lost sight of him—we had a customer named Diggs—he had been a licensed victualler, but lost his licence.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever ordered this man to go to Diggs before? A. I dare say I have, when I have fulfilled the duties of loading-clerk—there is only one who is strictly a loading-clerk—there are three clerks connected with the stores—it is constantly the habit of the clerks connected with the storehouse to give him orders—Mr. Lattimer is superannuated, but acts occasionally—Mr. Dove is the other—he was out of town.

WILLIAM ENSOK THORMAN . I am clerk to Messrs. Todd and Co., wharfingers, of Upper Thames-street. On 9th Sept. the prisoner came, with another man, to our wharf—he delivered two delivery-notes for five barrels of porter and a kilderkin of single stout—he was to deliver the kilderkin to us, and the five barrels at another place—he went away; after he was gone Mr. Berridge came, and after he had been, the prisoner came back with two kilderkins on the dray—he delivered one of them at our wharf, and said, "1 have delivered an empty kilderkin"—I said, "That is the empty kilderkin on your dray"—he said, "No; it is a kilderkin of stout which I am going to take over the water"—I said, "We have some empty casks"—he said, "I can't take them; I must deliver this."

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not say he was going to deliver this to

Diggs? A. No; my question confused him, and in his confusion he told me the truth.

RICHARD BERRIDGE . I am clerk to the prosecutor. On 9th Sept. I saw the prisoner leave the Red Lion-wharf, with a dray, with a kilderkin of double stout on it—that was after he had delivered what he had to deliver at the two places—he went very fast over London-bridge—a man named Wilkins was with him—he went to Diggs, and delivered this kilderkin of double stout into the passage of the public-house—I got the assistance of the police, returned to the house, and found him standing before the bar drinking—the kilderkin was to the left of the bar, covered with a mat—I asked what he did there—he said he was delivering beer—I asked if he had a delivery-note—he said, "Yes"—I asked him to produce it—he gave me the notes referring to the beer delivered at the Red Lion-wharf—I said these did not refer to the beer he had been delivering there, and I should give him into custody, and Wilkins, and the beershop-keeper—he still asserted he had a delivery-note, and had acted according to orders—I gave the men into custody—Digas, who was about a yard from him, said the man had asked him to leave the beer there, having to go a greater distance, and he would call for it on his return—the prisoner did not make any reply to that, but still said he had a deli very-note—the policeman took the two men, and took Diggs's word that he would follow to the station—he never came—we returned to the house, and they said he was just gone—I have not seen him since.

Cross-examined. Q. Was Diggs behind the bar? A. Yes—I was just before the bar—I have no doubt whatever that the roen must have heard what Diggs said—the prisoner was very cool, much more so than I could have expected—the prisoner did not deliver his papers voluntarily, without being asked for them—I found they did not refer to this stout—he then said, "Farr gave me instructions to deliver this stout here."

WILLIAM HUMPHREYS (policeman, M 127). On 9th Sept. I took the prisoner and Wilkins, and took charge of a cask of double stout—Diggs was behind the bar—I saw Mr. Berridge there—the prisoner said a man named Farr sent him with the beer—Diggs said he had nothing to do with it, but he had been asked by the prisoner to leave it there, as he was going farther, and would call for it—I could not take them all three to the station; I took Diggs's word that he would be up there directly—he did not come—I have lieen looking for him since.

GUILTY. Aged 28.—Recommended to mercy by the JuryJudgment Respited.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2152
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2152. MONTAGUE DOUGLAS SCOTT was indicted for stealing 2 sauce ladles, and other articles, value 47l. 15s.; the goods of Jonn William Thomas and another; and 12 spoons and other articles, value 12l.; the goods of Henry Holmes Dobson and another; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 24.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Nine Montlis.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2153
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2153. ANDREW SCHENK , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Conrad Buhler, with intent to steal.

MR. CHARNOCK conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN CONRAD BUHLER . I keep the City of Norwich, Wentworth-street, Spitalfields. On 23rd Aug., I and my wife were the last persons up—the cellar-flap was shut, but not fastened—at twelve o'clock I went to bed in the bar-parlour, as I had lost money before—I heard a noise, got up, opened the door, and saw the prisoner with a light in his hand—I kuew him; he had been in my house before, and he was there till ten o'clock the same night—I

was frightened, I thought he had a knife in his hand—I cried out twise "Murder!"—he ran down into the cellar—I ran into the yard; the cellar-flap was open; I put it down, and put a great stone on it—I then fetched an officer, who wont into the cellar, and the prisoner was gone—I went into the—yard, and he had forced the frame and all the flap open.

WIMJAM DARNELL . I live in Angel-alley. Whitcehapel. I was at Buhler's—the prisoner asked if I could accommodate him with a lodging—I took him home—he said he could not stop—he went away, and came home at two o'clock in the morning, very dirty, out of breath, and could not sneak.

JOSMH CHAPLIN (policeman, H 124). I took the prisoner on 24th Aug.—I found on him a sixpence, a piece of candle, and a lucifer—I went to Ruhler's, and saw the cellar-flap—it had been wrenched open—this iron had been wrenched out—the house is in the parish of Christ Church, Spitalme.

Prisoner's Defence. From Darnell's house I went to the Brown Bear, and played at nine-pins till it was dark; they told me to fetch a piece of candle; I was not the person who was in the house.

GUILTY . Aped 23.— Transported for Seven Years.

(The prosecutor stated he had been robbed three times within three week, and that the prisoner was in the habit of coming to his house all that lime.)

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2154
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2154. ISAAC HARDING HARRIS, alias JOHN PHILIP PHILLIPS , was indicted for unlawfully obtaning 2 half-crowns, the money of John Carte;, by false pretences; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 34.— Confined One Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2155
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

2155. JAMES HAYCOCK and JAMES DOYLE , feloniously harbouring John Mulloy, knowing him to have committed a robbery upon Edward Preston.—(See page 607.)

MR. PARNELL conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD PRESTON . I am a plane-maker, of Wood-street, Westminster. On 18th July, about two o'clock in the morning, I was going up Dean-street—I met two females, and went with them to a house in St. Ann's-court—one of them, named Flynn, went out for some gin—I was left in the room with Jones—she took my watch, and snapped the silk guard—I laid hold of her—a man named Mulloy, and Flynn, came and knocked me down—Jones escaped—I rushed to the door, and Mulloy stopped me—the two women got away—I held Mulloy, and struggled with him down to a room on the first-floor, and burst the door open—I cried "Murder!" and "Police!'—the prisoners came in, knocked me down on the bed, and rushed down stair; but Doyle being the last I caught hold of him—he dragged me down to the bottom—he got away—I got up. and pursued him—he went down St. John s-buildings, and was going into 20, St. Ann-street—I seized him—Haycock and Mulloy came up again—Doyle knew Mulloy; he had been with him to the theatre that night.

WILLIAM NOWLAN (policeman, B 56). On 28th July I heard a cry of "Police!" from 20, St. Ann-street—I went to the spot, and saw Doyle running through Jones's-buildings into St. Ann"s-Iane—I ran after him, butlost sight of him—I found this hat leading to 20, St. Ann-street—it is Doyle's; I have seen him with it—I went into the street; Haycock was pointed out to me—I took him—I was before the Magistrate when the prisoners were examined—after the evidence was taken they made a statement—it was taken down; they signed it—this is it—I was present when Jones, Flynn, and Mulloy, were tried.

(The statements of the prisoners tccre read as in page 610.)

Doyles Defence. I am entirely innocent; I went to the door of the room where the prosecutor and Mulloy were struggling; I should not have done so, but I heard the cries of "Murder!" and "Police!" while, I stood at mv own door; I had not the least knowledge of any robbery—I am entirely innocent of any knowledge or participation in any robbery; I have a wife and child dependent on me.

HAYCOCK— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Covfined Six Months.

DOYLE— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Two Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2156
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2156. ELIZABETH BAKER , feloniously stabbing John Baker, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. MELLER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN BAKER . I am a watch-maker, of St. Peter's-court, Aldgate. The prisoner is my wife—on 8th Sept. we were both drunk—I received a blow, but whether I fell down and did it, or took the knife myself, I do not recollect—I believe I did it myself—I do not believe the woman is guilty—I found myself bleeding from an injury in the head—the officer took me to a doctor.

WILLIAM PERRY . I am beadle of Aldgate. On Sth Sept. I was at the corner of Peter's-court—I saw the prosecutor come staggering to the door, bleeding from his head—he said, in the prisoner's presence, "She has done for me at last "—she said, "Yes, I wish I had stabbed him to the b----y heart"—I took him to the doctor, came back, and took the prisoner—I asked her what knife she did it with—she said, "The bread-and-butter knife," which 1 found covered with blood—the prosecutor and prisoner were both drunk—in fact, I never saw them otherwise.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did not he say she stabbed him, and she say he had stabbed her? A. Yes—I saw a scratch on her hand.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2157
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentencesTransportation; Transportation; Imprisonment

Related Material

2157. WILLIAM EDWARDS, THOMAS NORMAN , and JAMES PIDDICK , feloniously breaking and entering the counting-house of the London and North-Western Railway Company, and stealing 2 sovereigns, 1 half-sovereign, 1 crown, 1 half-crown, 3 shillings, 3 sixpences, 1 penny, and 2 5l.—Bank-notes; their property: and 1 shilling; the property of David Stevenson: and JOSHUA WILLIAMS feloniously receiving the said notes, and harbouring Edwards and Norman, knowing them to have committed the said felony.

MESSRS. CLARKSON and BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS MEREDITH . I am in the service of the London and North-Western Railway Company. On 5th Aug., about half-past eight o'clock in the morning, I went into Mr. Mills's office, at the station—it was my duty to open and clean it—a table-drawer had been broken open, and the papers all strewed about.

DAVID STEVENSON . I am the goods manager's assistant at the London and North-Western Railway. I received information from Meredith, and went into Mr. Mills's office—I have two drawers there—one of them was broken open, and a shilling had been taken from the other, in which the key tad been left—the window had been broken, and raised up—the shutters had been forced, and the blind cut—that would enable a person to get in, and go to the room above, where my drawers were—I found a razor and chisel one floor amongst the papers—I gave them to Mr. Barker, and saw him give them to Mr. Thompson—I had left at seven o'clock in the evening—the station is in the parish of St. Pancras.

Cross-examined by MR. MEITEK. Q. Are there policemen about there? A. Yes; I think there are a dozen or two on the station, which is about thirty-seven acres—they do not patrol about—some are in the pates and others at point—they cannot have a view of all the premises—I should and think there were any within forty yards of the place that was broken—that spot is not lighted up with gas—business is carried on all night in different parts, but not near there.

THOMAS CUKSTON MILLS . I am goods manager at the Camden-town station. This office was appropriated to me—on 4th Aug. I left between five and six o'clock in the afternoon, leaving 14l. 2s. 1d. in my table-drawer—there was one 5l. note, and I believe a second, but I am not certain; also gold and silver—I went next morning about nine—the money was all gone but one sovereign, which I found amongst the papers on the floor—Edwanis was the Company's servant fifteen or eighteen months, from the commence. ment of 1847—he knew my office—I always kept a small sum of money there for the payment of petty disbursements.

Cross-examined by MR. MELLER. Q. Whose property was it? A. The London and North-Western Railway Company's—my table has a drawerm on each side—the left-hand drawer was broken open by the wood being broke: away from the lock—a window was broken in the lower office.

GEOKGE LE PLA . I live at 8, Wellesley-street, City-road. I am out of employ—on 4th Aug., I saw Edwards and Norman against the Stanhop; Arms, Camden-town, about a hundred yards from the goods-station, abort eleven in the morning—they were talking—I knew Edwards by the name of Hocker—I heard him say to Norman, "Tom, I know where we can get some money to-night, if you have a mind to come"—Norman said, "Whereabout is it?"—Edwards said, "In the Company's office, at Camden-town; at the station"—Norman said, "Very well"—Edwards said, "Tom, you have get some tools at home"—Norman said, "I have"'—Edwards left him, and said he would see him about eight, down at the Oxford Arms; that is about two hundred yards from the Stanhope Arms—they parted—I was at the oxford Arms about eight that night, and saw them again—Edwards asked Norman for the tools—Norman said, "Here they are," and gave him an old chisel and a razor—Edwards said, "I will see you up at the Stanhope Arms bye-and-bye"—Norman said, "Very well"—I remained till about half-past ten; I then: went up to the Stanhope Arms—I saw Norman come out of the gates of the Camden-station—he asked me if I had seen Hocker—I said, "No"—I then went into the Hampstead-road, and saw Edwards coming over the bridge-Norman met him there—I went with them down the Hampstead-road—we met three girls, and all went to a public-bouse on the left-hand side, and had some beer—Edwards paid for one pot with a sovereign which he got changed—Norman then called for a second pot, and paid for it with a sovereign which he got changed—we came out, and Norman said to Edwards, "Hocker, you had better give me them notes, and I will put them away for you"—Edwarcs refused—I had seen the notes—just as we came over the bridge Edward showed them to Norman and to me, they were two 5l.-notes—Edwards said-to the girls, "Do you know where we can put these notes away?"—one of them said she would put them away for him to-morrow morning—we then all went to a house in the New-road, and remained there all night—nextmornicc we went to a coffee-shop down a turning on the left-hand side, in Tottenham Court-road, and had breakfast—after remaining there about half an hour, Edwards came out and said, "Come, let us go and get rid of these notes—

the "iris said, "Yes, let us all go down Drury-lane"—we went up a court on the right-hand side in Drury-lane—Edwards and one of the girls went into a barber's-shop, kept by Williams—Norman and I and the other girls were outside—in about a quarter of an hour Williams and the girl and Edwards came out, and began talking—Williams then went into his own house, and fetched a young man down, and they all four began talking together—I believe Edwards asked Williams if he could change the notes—he said he could not, but he would take them to somebody that could—I saw them in Edwards's hand—Edwards and the young man then went to some other place—Williams went back into his own house, and Norman and I and the girls went to a public-house and had some gin-and-water—Edwards and the young man returned—Edwards paid for the gin-and-water with a shilling—the young man showed me 9s.—he said, "That is all I have got for my trouble, so I have not robbed him much"—the young man then quitted, and I, the girls, Edwards, and Norman went up to Bloomsbury-strcet—Edwards gave Norman one sovereign—he said, "I am not going to have this," and Edwards gave him another, and then gave the girls one sovereign between them—he then offered me 1s. 6d. I would not have it—he said to Norman, "Tom, I will meet you down at the Brill to-night, at Somers-town"—we then all separated—I went with Norman—he asked me how much Edwards had given me—I told him he had offered me 1s. 6d.—I went with Norman to the Great Western Railway, and down by the train to Uxbridge—we stopped there about an hour and a half—we found a woman there—Norman said to her, "If any one should come after me, or inquire after me, tell them I was down here at nine or ten o'clock last night"—Norman and I then came to town—when I first met Edwards, he said, as he was going over the Hampstead-road bridge the policeman asked him where he was going, thinking that he was working on the premises; that he told him he was going to supper, and the policeman said it was all right—Edwards afterwards said he had got 7l. 10s. for the notes—on the Monday-after the robbery, I saw Edwards and Piddick at the Stanhope Arms, Camden-town—Piddick said to Edwards, "Are you going to stand any beer?"—Edwards said he was not—Piddick said he should split upon him—Edwards said, "You may split if you like, for I want to get out of this country"—he said if I said anything about it, he would knock my head off—he gave me 2s. as my share—this is like the razor (looking at it) which one of the prisoners gave to the other—Norman told me he saw a man go by, and got inside a hamper to conceal himself, and that at the time of the robbery he was inside the hamper outside the window—Edwards said he pulled open the shutters, and cut the blind with the razor, and then put his band up to the latch, undid it, got inside and opened two or three drawers, but found nothing in them—I believe he said he got the notes out of a drawer, I am not quite sure—I made communication to Thompson.

Cross-examined by MR. MELLER. Q. Did you see the notes? A. Yes; I swear they were 5l. notes—I was never in prison—I believe I have always been honest, and borne an honest character—I was out of work about six weeks before the robbery—my father kept me—he is a brewer at Whitbread's—I had been away from my father two days when this robbery took place, looking after a job—I was charged with stealing on the Eastern Counties luilway—they said I had lost a box of candles off my van—they did not exactly charge me, but one of the Eastern Counties policemen took me about tutry to find it—we did not find it—I was dismissed—I have never been charged with stealing pork—I was four or five months in the service of the Railway; before that I was in the employ of a carrier in the Wharf-road, for

nine or ten months—I was discharged for slackness of work—there was a charge of stealing a fourpenny-piecc—I was charged with taking tworint:. Whitecross-street—I have never been convicted before a Magistrate, or take before one, till I was up here—I had no participation in this robbery funfcj than I have related—I knew a robbery was to be committed at that statioi—I was not inside the station.

Edicards. Q. You said before the Magistrate I gave you 2s.? A. Yes; that was the night the robbery was committed—you next day offered me 1s. 6d., and I would not take it.

JOSEPH BORTOS . I live in Rose-street, Camden-town, and know the prisoners. On 2nd Aug. I saw Piddick and Edwards come to the Southampton Arms—they were talking for a quarter of an hour—I came out; Piddick followed me, and asked if I knew what Edwards and he had been talking about—I said, "No"—he said Edwards and he had been proposing breaking into Mr. Mills's office, and asked if I would go with them—I said no, I won!: have nothing to do with it—I saw Norman again on 10th Aug., against ti Stanhope Arms—we went to Paddington together—coming home he said to me, "You know all about that robbery"—I said, "No"—he said, "You were asked to go and would not"—I said, "No"—he said Edwards sold two 5l. notes for 5l. 10s.—I went to the Police-court and gave evidence against Piddick and Edwards—Norman was not then in custody—I saw him on tie 15th, at Camden-town—he said, "How came you to mention my name ate these two 5l. notes?"—I said, "I told the Magistrate just as you told me"—he said he was going out till Thursday morning, and then if Thompson took him he should tell all about the robbery—he said he had seen Edwards, asd wanted him to give him 3l. to get out of the way, and Edwards would not.

Cross-examined by MR. MELLER. Q. Who was present when Noraa spoke about the two 5l. notes? A. Several persons were close by, but I called me on one side—I did not ask him about his having any participate: in the robbery—he told this on Monday, the 14th—I mentioned the conversation to Thompson when he came to me—he did not tell me there was something to be made by giving evidence—he said, if I did not tell what I did know about it, I should get locked up—he did not charge me with beings a participator—I do not expect to make money by this—I knew I should be a witness—I do not know that witnesses are paid—I swear I did not expect to receive any money from my knowledge being made public—I was employed by Mr. Goodwin, who keeps horses in James-street, Camden-town—I lei: him, because a horse fell lame—I believe it was through being shod—my master said it was my fault—before that, I was in the employ of Mr. Pickford, the carrier, for seven years and three-quarters—I left about sixpence—I was not charged with stealing it—I have never been charged with theft.

DECIMUS KNOWLDEN . I am a watchman at the London and North-Western Railway. On 4th Aug. I was at Camden-station gate—I know Edwards very well—I saw him come out of the gate that night, about a quarter or twenty minutes past ten o'clock—that is near the Railway bridge, and about two hundred yards from Mr. Mills's office—I asked if he was going to supper—he said, "Yes."

Edwards. Q. You have seen me pass out of that gate many times.? A. Yes.

THOMAS HENRY THOMPSON . I am a constable of the London and North-Western Railway. On 17th Aug. I found Norman in the kitchen of 3 house in Augusta-street, which leads out of the Hampstead-road—I said, "Tow, I suppose you know what I want you for?"—he said, "Yes"—I brought him

away—as we went along I took this razor from my pocket, and said, "Do you know this razor?"—he said, "No"—he looked at it again, and said, "Yes, I do, I lent it to Hocker; he asked me to lend him a knife, and I lent him this on the afternoon or evening of the 4th"—in going across the bridge, he said that Hocker met him on the bridge, and asked him to go and change two 5l. notes for him, he said he would, they went to the Oxford Arms, and Hocker met some girls, and they went home with them—that Hocker told him he had got a heavy job, and he (Norman) asked him if he wanted a cart and horse, Hocker said, "No, we can carry it in our breeches-pockets"—I took him to Euston-station—he there said that Hocker asked him to be in the robbery at the Railway-station, and he refused, that he parted with him about half-past ten o'clock at night—when Piddick was in custody, I received a message from him, and went and saw him in the House of Detention, in a turnkey's presence, I said I had been sent for to see him through the means of his mother, and that whatever he told me I should offer in evidence, for or against him—he said it was a pity for him to suffer, he was not guilty that Hocker and he were in the Stanhope Arms, and Hocker said, "Tom, it is a pity or a shame for us to starve here; I know where there is a chance"—he said "Where?"—Hocker said, "At the station"—he said that he refused, and came out, met Borton, and asked him whether he knew what Hocker had been saying to him, he said, "No," he said he told Borton that Hocker asked him to be in a robbery, and would he be one of them, and Borton refused, saying he never was a thief yet, and he would not make one—I took Williams into custody in Short's-gardens—I told him it was on suspicion of receiving two 5l. notes—he said he knew nothing about them—the next morning he said he did not have the notes; he did not know what to do.

Cross-examined by MR. MELLER. Q. On what day of the month did you see Norman? A. On the 18th or 20th—it was some time after I had seen Borton on the subject—I showed him both the razor and the chisel—he denied having lent him any chisel at all.

JAMES FELL . I am chief clerk at Marylebone Police-court—the prisoners were brought before Mr. Brooks, the Magistrate—they made a statement, which I took down—(reads—Norman says, "It is all true that I have stated, two or three heard what he said to me and what I said to him"—Williams said, "I am innocent; I never saw the notes—I was in needy circumstances, and was asked whether I could get two notes changed—I said I could—I thought I should get a trifle by it—I went and fetched a young man, knowing him very slightly, and he went with this man (Edwards)—I never saw the others before."—Piddick said, "I was at work on Thursday night and Friday night at Pickford's—I did not ask Horton to be one, but I told him he might be one if he liked."

Piddick's Defence. On the Monday morning I was at home from half-past eight to half-past ten o'clock.

EDWARDS— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Ten Years.



Transported for Ten Years.

WILLIAMS— GUILTY . †— Confined Two Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2158
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2158. JAMES CRABB , feloniously cutting and wounding Joseph Bools, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH BOOLS . I live at 11, Cannon-street. On 29th Aug., about eleven

o'clock in the morning, I went to Mr. Williams's, 5, Back-road, St. Georger's, where the prisoner lodges, and asked him if he was satisfied, as he had paid his bill—he said * * * and said I had nothing to do with it—he challenged me to fight—he pulled his jacket off, put it on again, and case and put his fist in my face—we had a round, and then we both sat down—said, "I don't want any more of that"—I considered it was all over-then heard the rushing of his feet, and saw him coming towards me, saying he would; run me through—he made a blow at me—I parried it with my left hand:; and hold of him with my rijjht—I took the hand that had the knife in it—he made a rush, and cut my other hand—it bled much—I got the knife fc-him, and threw it to a party that was standing by—I went to the surjer and after my hand was dressed I gave the prisoner into custody.

WILLIAM HIGGINS . I work for Mr. Williams. I was present—Boch was sitting down—the prisoner was standing up—he took a knife out of his right-hand pocket, and said, "I will stab you"—he went towards Bools, vis got up—the prisoner made a stab at him towards his breast—they strewn together—I got the knife, and fetched the policeman.

MARK BROWN GARRETT . I am a surgeon. On 29th Aug. Bools came me with his hand bleeding—it was a long incised wound, between the fee. finger and thumb—it bled very profusely—the arteries are in that situation—it is healing—it was likely to have been produced by a knife.

JOSEPH SMITH (policeman, K 336). I took the prisoner—I asked him why he had done it—he said Bools had knocked him down—I said to must come with me—he said, "Very well, I don't mind a month"—thisi the knife.

Prisoner's Defence. The prosecutor and I had a few words; I had aksii in my hand; he tried to take it from me, and cut his own hand.

GUILTY . Aged 38.— Transported for Seven Years.

THIRD COURT.—Saturday, September 23rd, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the Second Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2159
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2159. ELIZABETH KINGATE was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2160
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2160. WILLIAM PARSONS , unlawfully assaulting Ann Hill, viifc intent, &c.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2161
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2161. JAMES DONOGIIUE , lor a common assault.

GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Two Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2162
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Imprisonment; Imprisonment

Related Material

2162. DANIEL FITZGERALD, DENNIS FITZGERALD, MICHAEL NAIGLK , and WILLIAM DOWNING , unlawfully assaulting Gears Osborn, Peter Collett, and James Mams, constables, in the execution of their duty.

MR. PRERNDERGAST conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE OMIORN (policeman, K 129). On 6th Sept., about half-past twelve at night, I was on duty in Green Man-lane, Poplar—a number of persons were making a noise—on my speaking to them, they went away, except five or six, who remained, hooting and shouting—Daniel Fitzgerald and

were among them—I told them to go away, and get into their houses, or I must take them to the station—they went in, and 1 was going away, they opened their doors, and stones were thrown—when I got to the top of the lane, Dennis Fitzgerald came out and asked what business I had to order his brother home—I told him to go home, or I should take him—he gave me a punch with bis fist, and took hold of me by my chin with both hands—I snrang my rattle—Sergeant Hams came, and told him to let go—he would not—Hams struck him, and he let go with one arm—Hams got hold of him, pulled him oft me, and helped me to take him to the station—as we were going, Daniel Fitzgerald came up, and said, "You b----b----, you shall not convey us; we are all b----Chartists"—Sergeant Hams was afterwards brought to the station, covered with blood—I saw Collett on the ground, and two of the prisoners on the top of him.

Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Who assisted you to take Dennis to the station? A. Hams—after he had been treated in this way I took Dennis by myself—he got one band in my neck—I did not lay hold of him to take me till he struck me—while he had hold of me by the collar, my hand was in bis collar, and his in mine, but his handkerchief was loose, and I had not so pood a hold of him as he had of me—I sprang my rattle during the struggle, which lasted five or six minutes before Hams came—I was being strangled all that time, and should have been, if Haras had not arrived just as he did—I could not have taken Dennis to the station—I had a staff—I was struck on the lip—I had gone about twenty yards from where the men were, before I felt any stones—Collett was then with me—I was not hit—the stones were of this sort (produced)—they fell about my legs—there were a great quantityof them—there were women in the crowd—when I first went up, they wanted to get up a fight with two sailors, and said, "Well, we don't mind having a round with you;" I cannot say which of them said that—there were twenty or thirty men—the sailors are not here—Collett was not there then—I did not tell the men 1 would take them into custody, before Collett came.

PETER THOMAS COLLETT (policeman, K 283). I received information, and went to Osborn's assistance—I saw five people in Green Man-lane—we desired them to go away—they all went in-doors—they came out, and stones, brickbats, and earthenware, were thrown—Dennis struck Osborn, and struck me twice on the head—I recovered myself—he struck me again, seized me by the * * *, and struck me on the head—I fell—he then seized Osborn by the collar with both hands—I got up, and was knocked down by Naigle, and kicked by him and Downing while down—Penn came up, pulled Naigle off me, and assisted me up—Downing struck me again—I should have falled, hut I seized him, and he kicked me in the legs—with some struggling, I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear a rattle? A. No; I was not struck by the stones—Dennis Fitzgerald asked why we interfered, in sending his brother home—no one was with him then—his brother came up almost immediately, and must have heard him—I tried to strike Dennis—before I could do so he struck me twice—I had not my staff out—I was braised and swelled a good deal on my bead—I was trying to take Dennis—I was knocked down on my back—my cape was torn.

JAMES HAMS (police-sergeant, K 21). I heard a rattle spring, went to the top of Green Man-lane, and saw Dennis holding Osborn against the front of a house, with his knuckles in his throat—Osborn spoke to me as well as be could, and said, "For God's sake, make him let go, or I shall be strangled'—I told him to let go, he would not; I struck him on the arm with my

staff, he did not let go; I struck him again, and made him let go with him right hand, got him off, and was taking him to the station—there was a great crowd hallooing and yelling—Daniel came up and said, "Let him go you shan't take him; we are Smith O'Brien's men"—he struck me in the breast and kicked me on the legs—I struck him with my staff—he leaped from the pavement into the road, pulled off his shirt, and returned with only his drawers on, with a brick in his hand, knocked off my hat, and struck mecj the head with a brick—I let go of Dennis—Daniel kicked me, and struck two or three times with the brick—I had my staff up to strike him; some one behind pinioned my arms, kicked my legs from under me, and I fell—Daniel stooped down and struck me severely with the brick in his hand—several persons kicked me, and I lost my senses—I bled from the ears, no;-and mouth until six o'clock next morning, and have frequently since, I am afraid I shall never have my health again.

Cross-examined. Q. Did Daniel throw the brick at you? A. No; he kept it in his hand till I lost my senses—I used my staff before I sawtb brick—I have not heard that Daniel's finger was broken.

JKSSE PESN (policeman, K 350). I saw Dennis holding Osborn by the collar—he said, "For God's sake, take him away; he will choke me"—Serger: Hams assisted him—I saw Downing and Naigle kneeling on Collett, and Daniel kicking him—I pulled Naigle off—he picked up three parts ofabrid and threw it at Collett—it did not strike him—I took him to the state, came back, and met Sergeant Haras being brought to the station by Bell, with his face covered with blood—I found Daniel sitting on a door step, in Queen-street, with nothing on but his drawers—he said he only came out to see his brother righted—I took him to the station.

Cross-examined. Q. How far was the station? A. About a quarter of mile—there were about 100 persons when I first went—part of them followed me—I was not struck—I did not see Hams hit Dennis—I believe I hit him first—that did not make him let go his hold.

ARTHUR BELL . I am a green-grocer. I was at the corner of Wade-street, and saw Hams knocked down insensible—I have lost my right arm, and could not assist him—three midshipmen rushed at him and said, "For God's sake, let us holloa, or you will be murdered"—they decamped—Sergeant Hams was bleeding from the nose, ears, and mouth—I saw Daniel strike Hams with his clenched fist on the back of the head—I saw persons with something in their hands, but I could not see what.

Cross-examined. Q. How many policemen were there when you went? A. Three, I think—I was there about two minutes after the rattle sprung—I saw Daniel jump into the road and pull his shirt off—there was hard fighting on both sides—I saw blood coming from Daniel's head before Hara ss knocked down—it was from a blow from a policeman's staff.

GEORGE OCGHTON . I keep a beer-shop, at Poplar. I saw Collett taking Downing to the station—he told me to go up, for they were murdering Hams—I went about fifty yards, met a policeman, and saw Sergeant Hams knocked down, and two or three men kicking him—Daniel struck him tffiw, kicked him in the ribs, and was hitting at his jaw with his left fist as hard as he could—I took hold of his ham!, and asked if he had murdered the man—he ran away—Hams was bleeding from the head and nose.

RONALD ROHEHTSON . I am a surgeon. I saw Serjeant Hams; he was bleeding from the nose and mouth—he had severe bruises on the head and different parts of his body—his hand was hurt—he is not under my carenow—he was almost all over bruises.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you surgeon to the police? A. Yes—he would hare come to me if he had had any ailment—there were no wounds on his head and face, only bruises—he was incapable of doing duty for a week.

(The prisoners received good characters.)


NAIGLE—GUILTY. Aged 25.— Confined Nine Months. DOWNING— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2163
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2163. WILLIAM CHOLES unlawfully assaulting Skelton George Rowley and James Moseley, policemen, in the execution of their duty.

MESSRS. CLERK and ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

SKELTON GEORGE ROWLEY (policeman, H 159). On 5th Sept., at nine o'clock at night, I went into the parlour of the Ben Jonson public-house, Spitalfields, in plain clothes, to meet a party on business—I was on duty—I staid there till half-past ten—I played with the prisoner's brother at bagatelle for a pint of beer—soon after the game was over, the prisoner came in, stopped a minute or two, went out, and came back with four or five men—he made some remark, and I received a violent blow on the nose from a person not in custody—I was driven to the further end of the room and knocked down—the prisoner and two or three more struck me over the right eye—the prisoner struck me two or three times while I was endeavouring to defend myself, and while I was down—there were four or five on me—I had given them no provocation—I had taken Shaw, the Chartist, who was convicted this Session—there are nothing but Chartists in that neighbourhood—the men we strangers to me—they said I was a policeman—they said nothing about Chartists—the prisoner's brother jumped up and ran out of the room—I went out and saw the prisoner in the bar—he ran into a dark room—I ran after him and took him—he said it was not him, it was his brother—I was quite sober—I went to a surgeon—Moseley came in a few minutes after me—I am on the sick list now.

Cross-examined by MR. PARNELX. Q. Did you have anything to drink? A. Perhaps two glasses of porter—that was in the execution of my duty—the head of the bagatelle-board was not broken by me—the landlady did not complain of it—the prisoner was not pointed out as the person who told the landlady, to my knowledge—that was not the beginning of the disturbance—one game was played before I played—I struck the man who struck me—I did not say, "Man for man"—there were five or six men there, and some more came after the row was over—Moseley was sitting on the other side—he did not play with me—he was in plain clothes—he came with Molloy, a policeman, who is not here—he went out for assistance at the commencement.

JAMES MOSELEY (policeman, H 117). I met Rowley at the Ben Jonson—I was sitting in the parlour with him—I did not see the prisoner come in the first time, I did the second, and other people rushed in after him, and said something to Rowley, which I did not understand, and a man struck him in the face with his fist—it was like a quarrel with Rowley about the game—he could not have been playing with the prisoner—it was like a Murderous attack—the prisoner said something about the bagatelle-board—I did not see Rowley thrown down—as four or five of them attacked me some one called out, "Give it to the b----, he is a policeman, and one

that goes after the Chartists"—the prisoner struck me several times, and so did others.

Cruss-rxnmincd. Q. How long were you thore? Twenty minutes or half an hour—I did not drink half a pint—I was in the execution of my duty—we are always supposed to be so—I looked on and saw the game, but dig not play—I uaj at the head of the hoard, but did not see that it was bro was only laid up two days, being very busy just then.

MR. CLIRK. Q. Did you hear any complaint about the board being broken? A. No, but the room was in a state of confusion—the prisoner—came in and muttered some words—he has an impediment in his speech—I was on my regular duty—Rowley ordered me there.—I am assistant to the police-surgeon. I saw Rowley between eleven and twelve o'clock that night—he was quite sober—he was severely bruised on the nose and face—his right eye was quite closed and left nearly so—he had several small wounds about the face.

Cross-examined. Q. He presented the appearance of a man who had been fighting? A. Yes.

MR. PARNELL called

CATHERINE HARRIS . I was at the Ben Jonson—I took the bagatelle-balls into the room about half-past ten o'clock—the two prisoners and a person I did not know were there—I saw that the bagatelle-board was uninjured—the prisoner pointed to the gentleman—the prisoner has an impediment in his speech, and I could hardly understand him—I went in with Mrs. Jones and her brother—the brother said, "Who has done it?"—the prison: pointed to Rowley—Moseley was lying across the form at full length—he got: over the bagatelle-board, and a truck the prisoner with bis fist—there was a disturbance, and I went out.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How many people were there; when he was struck? A. Six or eight—I did not see any blood on the prisoner's face—Moseley struck him with his double fist—the prisoner in not a Chartist—he was in the room full half an hour before any blow was struck.

ANN JONES . My husband keeps the Ben Jonson. On 5th Sept. the prisoner came to my bar, and made motions—I went into the parlour with him—he pointed to the head of the board—it was broken—he then pointed to Rowley—I said nothing, but left the room, as no one but mewasinlhe house—the disturbance went on for five or ten minutes afterwards—I have known the prisoner a good many years, and never saw him in a row in my life—the prisoner and his brother frequent my house—no Chartists have been apprehended there.

HENRY CHOLES . I am the prisoner's brother. I was in the bagatelle-room, and played with Rowley—he chucked down the cue, and broketh; head of the board with it—my brother was in the house, but had only bee; in the room two or three minutes—he went out, returned with the landlord and two or three females, and pointed to where the board was broken—Mis. Jones asked who had broken it, and said what a shame it was—there was a knock at the door, and she left—directly her back was turned, Moseley said "That is the b----that went and told," and directly punched the prisoner-Rowley struck me on the ear, and said, "Man for man"—there is a warrant out against me—I admitted that I struck the constable.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2164
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2164. CHARLOTTE BINDER , unfawfully endeavouring to conceals the birth of her child.

GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Four Months.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 25th, 1817.


Fifth Jury, before Mr. Recorder.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2165
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2165. WILLIAM DARVILL , unlawfully assaulting Julia Hervin, with intent, &c.

GUILTY of an Assault. Aged 45.— Confined Two Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2166
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2166. SOLOMON COWAN , feloniously receiving 9724 cards, value 4l., the goods of John Dickinson and another, knowing them to have been stolen.

MLSSKS. CLARKSON and BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE WABDLE (City-policevian, 25). On 8th Aug. I went to the prisoner's premises—I told him who I was, and that I took him on suspicion of receiving a quantity of cards stolen from Messrs. Dickinson, in the Old Bailey, and said he had better give me what cards he had to save me the trouble of ransacking his premises—he pointed to a shelf, and said these were all he had—I took them oft the shelf, and I produce them—I asked if he could account for who he bought them of, and if he had any receipts to show—he said he had no receipts, and he either bought them of a person of the name of Sharp, or some name I could not exactly understand—some of these cards were in the window, and some at the door—I took him to the station, and there I asked him who it was he said he bought them of—I believe he said it was of no consequence.

JOHN NICHOLAS . I am assistant to Wilson and Sons, of Cheapside. I know the prisoner, and have at various times purchased cards of him—the last I bought were on 3rd Aug.—I produce part of them—I purchased eleven gross of large cards, and ten dozen of small ones—I knew them to be Dickinson's by their general appearance—they are well known in the trade—I paid 48s. a jtoss for the large, and 2s. 6d. a dozen for the small—I paid him on that day—(26l. 6s. altogether—we print on the cards.

Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Had you any other transaction with him? A. Yes, I have known him fifteen years—I have bought occasionally of him—he keeps an open shop in Goswell-street, I believe—I never went there—I have frequently seen him at sales years ago, and buying paper—I never knew of Dickinson's cards being sold at sales—stationers sell off their stock when they have been bankrupts, but paper is frequently sold at grocer's and other sales.

THOMAS PATRICK . I have been in the employ of Messrs. Dickinson about eighteen years. These cards produced by Mr. Nicholas are Messrs. Dickinson's make—the nett price of these large cards to the trade would be about 61s. 3d. the gross, and the small ones about 38s. 3d.—they are never sold from us at a lower price—we have lost a considerable number of cards of this description, perhaps 1000l. worth in the last twelve months—I never heard but of one sale in which our cards were sold, and that was one half-gross—there are persons in our employ who would have access to these cards, and have opportunities of taking them—some persons have been charged with it, and have been found guilty.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there a mark of Messrs. Dickinson's on the cover? A. Yes, just as we send them out—we sell them to the trade for them to sell again—we sell them in London—we do not employ any agents.

COURT Q. Then the retail-dealers do not get their cards of Messrs. Dickinson, but of the persons to whom they have been previously sold by.

Messrs. Dickinson? A. Yes—probably 7000l. or 8000l. worth have been sold by Messrs. Dickinson during the last twelve months.

WILLIAM BAKE IT HINE . I am in Messrs. Dickinson's employ. Two or three days before 27th July I marked some cards by Mr. Patrick's direction—I marked twenty cross of large ones, and twenty gross of small, on the wrappers, in addition to the ordinary mark—they were put on one side, and on 27th July they were delivered to the wagoner to take to the Old Bailey.

THOMAS PXTRICK re-examined. On 27th July I received forty gross of those cards, which had been marked—they were put into stock, some we.-; stolen, and some sold, in the usual way—I was present at their sale, in mose cases—rather more than half were sold—five gross were sold between 27th July and 1st Aug.

----WIGGINS. I am a clerk in the house of Wiggins and Co. We bought cards of the prosecutors between 27th July and 1st Aug., but not in such large quantities as a gross.

JONATHAN CROCKER . I am a clerk to Mr. Batty. On 27th July I sent to the prosecutors for a gross of cards—I sent one half-gross into the country.

----MORGAN. I am assistant to Messrs. Morgan. On 28th July I sent an order to the prosecutors for one gross of small cards—I sold five dozen the same day—I never heard of Messrs. Dickinson's cards being sold at a lower price in the market—I have got some of the cards—we have sold a great many at 3s. 9d. a dozen—the wholesale price is 3s. 2d.

ARTHUR WILLIS . I am a stationer, at 8, Newgate-street. On 23rd July I went to the prisoner's shop, in Goswell-street—he is a general dealer, and deals in ironmongery, paper, and other things—I first saw his sister—lai him on 1st Aug.—I inquired what cards he had for sale—he said ten or twelve gross—I asked his price, and took two packets of cards with me a samples—I wished him to call on me for an answer whether I would have them or not—he mentioned 48s. a gross for the large cards—he called on me about twelve o'clock the same morning—I declined purchasing them, and gave him back the two packets—I asked him whose cards they were—he said Dickinson's.

COURT Q. He did not appear to make any secret about it? A. No—I communicated with Mr. Penny, in the Old Bailey.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been acquainted with the prisoner? A. No, only by seeing him at sales, buying stationers' stock—there were books and paper, and other things, exposed for sale, in his shop—there we single packets of cards at his door with the price on them—he knew me—I had never had any dealings with him for cards—he came to me to know if I was a purchaser for a book binder's-press.

MR. BALLANTINE here withdrew from the Prosecution.


(There were two other indictments against the prisoner, on which no evidence was offered.)

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2167
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2167. FREDERICK WILLIAM SOUTHCOMB , feloniously forging and uttering an acceptance to a bill of exchange for the payment of 7l. 10s. 6d. with inteit to defraud Henry Hems.

MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.

HENKY HKMS . I am an ironmonger, at 39, High-street, Islington. On 23rd Feb. the prisoner came to my shop for some goods, and looked out a quantity—he then said he wanted me to make him some tin saucepans, with copper bottoms; but before that he said he supposed I should want a reference—I said, "No." what he had looked out I expected he would pay for—he

said he could not pay for them, but he would give me a bill at a month—I asked his name—he said Frederick Corking, and be said he would refer to his father, who was living in Mexican-terrace, Caledonian-road—I got this bill of exchange, for 7l. 10s. 6d., from the prisoner (produced)—I saw him write this acceptance to it—I was not satisfied with the acceptance, and he took the bill away, and brought it again, with this indorsement on it—it does not appear to be the same writing as the acceptance—I parted with my goods on this bill—he got goods to that value—three or four days before it became due, I was given to understand he was removing, and I went to 17, Greenman's-lane, which is the address on the bill—I did not find him there—I vent a second time, and found him removing—I went to Mexican-terrace, to give notice of the bill being due—I afterwards saw my goods at Mr. Walton's, a pawnbroker's.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSOX. Q. You found the name of Corking over the door of the baker's-shop, in Greenman's-lane? A. I did—I did not agree to give him the credit he asked for, on inquiring of Mr. Smith, entirely—I found he had taken a house—he gave me the name of a neighbour, who had supplied him with goods—I found that to be the fact, and then agreed to supply him—I never asked him for his father's indorsement; it was his own offer.

JOHX POWELL (policeman, G 53). I was present at the prisoner's examination—I heard the clerk ask bis name—he said, "Frederick William South-comb."

CHARLES COX . I know the prisoner. I first saw him in the beginning of June, this year—he gave me the name of Frederick Whittingham.

JAMES BURGON . I am a carman. I have known the prisoner about ten years—I have known his father and his family—his name is Frederick Whittingham.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known him latterly? A. Yes; I saw him about ten or three months back.

GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Seven Years.

MR. PARKY stated that there were seven other charges against the prisoner, and that he had defrauded about thirty tradesmen.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2168
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2168. WILLIAM ROBERTS , feloniously cutting and wounding Osborn Atterbury on his back, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. PKENDERGAST conducted the Prosecution.

OSBORX ATTERBURY . On 23rd Aug. I was going down Long-alley, about half-past ten o'clock at night—I saw some persons standing round a house, and many of them were breaking windows—I said it was a shame to break the windows—I no sooner said it than I received three blows with a fist—I was then making my way home, when I was attacked by a young man who I was told was the prisoner's brother—I was struggling with him, when the prisoner came up and stuck a knife into me—I did not see him then—I can swear I had seen him in the mob—I immediately fell, and the person 1 was encountering fell upon me—I was picked up—I was not able to do much work for four or five days.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How did you happen to be there? A. I was going from my shop—I had nothing to do with the house—I was not otic of the parties who came to take possession—I am a shoemaker—I never was accused of breaking into a house to get possession—I know Jones, the milkman—he was not concerned in this matter, to mv knowkdge—he and

M'Clean, and my brother and I, did not go and knock at the door of No. 31, Christopher-square, ami break in and throw the woman's furniture in the struct—I never saw the woman who lives at No. 31, Christopher-square, before the night in question—I and M'Clean did not rush into the house—I never was employed to get possession of a house in my life—I did not come out of the house in my shirt sleeves, and threaten the people outside that if they would not let me shut the shutters I would do for some of them—I did not, when the prisoner was speaking to M'Clean, come up and say, "You b----r, will you fight?"—I did not strike him—I and the party with me had not got sticks and crow-bars—I cannot say whether my brother was one of the party—I was not there to see—I went to Songhurst's, but I did not accuse him of stabbing me—I did not know who it was—I did not say, "Never mind, I am not hurt "—I did not say to one of the witnesses that I would lag them if they came against me.

MR. PKLNDERGAST. Q. You had something in your hand? A. My basket; I had beard at half-past seven o'clock, that a house was to be take: possession of—it was in my way home—I live in the next turning.

FRANCIS ATTERHURY . I live in King's Head-court. I saw some persons round Mrs. Charlton's house, and some were breaking windows—I saw the prisoner and his brother come and strike my brother—I saw the prisoner drop his two hands, and go through the motion of opening a knife—he raised his right hand up, and stabbed my brother down the back—I saw something glittering by the light of the gas—my brother was quite engaged with the prisoner's brother and another man also.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been in Mrs. Charlton's house before? A. Yes; and M'Clean and eight or nine more—we had no crow-bars or sticks—it was a trespass—it was not Mrs. Charlton's goods that were thrown out—I once appeared on a trial at Guildhall, and I was indicted here by the defendant in that case for a conspiracy—I was honourably acquitted, and had 25l. for being here—I brought an action against him for false imprisonment—nobody rushed into Mrs. Charlton's house, the door was open—we have-got possession of the house now—it was by a warrant from the Magistrate.

COURT Q. Had your brother done anything to this man when he received the stab? A. Nothing at all.

ROBERT JONES . I was in Christopher-square, Long-alley, and saw the prosecutor in contention uitli the prisoner's brother, who gave him a blow—they were fighting, and another man was upon him also—I saw the prisoner behind him, and saw him give him a blow with his right-hand, and there was something that glittered in his hand like a short knife—the prosecutor bad not given him any offence, no further than complaining of the windows being broken.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you ever been charged with anything? A. No; it was dark—I was two or three yards from them—the man fell down with the blow.

PETER GOWLAND . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital. I examined the prosecutor—he had an incised wound in the back—it had been given with a knife—it was two inches deep—it was not a serious wound—if it had been a little forwarder, it would have penetrated the lungs—he was under rnv care as an outdoor-patient for about a week.

LKN'MIN ATTKKDURY re-examined. After I had had my wound dress I went back to the house—I did not fight after that—the prisoner was taken in custody a week afterwards—I could not see him before—I did not know him but my brother was with me—he came forward on a summon.

HENKY HAVNES . I was in company with the prisoner on this night—a number of persons were collected—I saw M'Clean—the prosecutor came out of the house where the unlawful seizure was, with a basket—I saw the things turned out of the window, a great many were broken—they could have brought them out at the door—I was giving M'Clean a very good character of a person, the prisoner came up and said, "You know a deal about it; you don't know so much as I; he don't pay me my wages"—Osborn Atterbury said to the prisoner, "Do you want to fight?"—the prisoner said, "No"—Osborn Atterbury struck the prisoner in the mouth, and knocked him down—the prisoner got up as soon as he could, and he and I walked home—he went to bed—I saw him to his door, and saw him up-stairs—he had used no knife to the prosecutor, if he had I must have seen it—I was alongside of him.

Cross-examined by MR. PRERNDERGAST. Q. You did not see the prosecutor knocked down? A. No, I did not see the prisoner put to bed—I saw him go upstairs—I went home—I do not know whether he went out afterwards—when I saw him hit, I tried to help him—I did not hit anybody—I tried to help by persuading them away.

MR. PAYNE. Q. Had those persons who came out of the house anything with them? A. A great many of them had sticks and truncheons—the neighbourhood was greatly alarmed.

MARY SONGHURST . I am married; I lived at 31, Christopher-square—I occupied the whole house—I had furniture in it—both the Atterbury's came there on the evening of 23rd Aug. with twelve or fourteen persons—they had crowbars and truncheons—they threw all my furniture out of the window, and broke a great many things—Jones was there—I saw Osborn Atterbury there from half-past eleven to twelve o'clock—he came into my house about half an hour after he had been stabbed—my husband had been to Featherstone-street station to get assistance—they had ejected me from my house—I got in again by the assistance of the mob—the prosecutor rushed up stairs, seized my husband, and said to him with an oath, "You b—r, you have stabbed me"—my husband said, "Unhand me, I have been to Featherstone-street station; I have been talking to Brannan"—the prosecutor said, "If it was not you, it was your son"—I said, "I have no son"—they had no right to turn me out—they produced no warrant, only a letter from an old lady—it was a fictitious authority altogether, and I made answer that a woman could not be a sheriff.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure your husband did not stab him? A. Yes—he was not at the place at the time—he was at Featberstone station.

----MARTIN (policeman, G 245). I was on duty that night—I saw both the Atterburys come out of the house about half-past ten o'clock, and I counted sixteen others—there was a great disturbance; some hundreds of people were round the house, and stones were throwing—I went away and returned with four other officers—I went up to the door, and several people rushed from the house—several had cuts, and one or two had black eyes—I asked to see M'Clean—I knocked some time, and he came to the door—I said to him, "I shall hold you responsible if there is any more of this"—I remained till the two Atterburys, M'Clean, and another man came out—I then heard that one man had been stabbed—I went and found the prosecutor, and asked him whether he knew who did it—he said, "I do not; I wish I did"—I then spoke to his brother, and he said he did not know who it was; he had not the slightest idea.

Cross-examined. Q. How came you not to go before the Magistrate when

a man had gone and sworn to the identity of the person? A. I never knew That any proceedings were taken till the night after the prisoner was committed.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-12169
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

12169. JAMES M'CABE , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George Grey, and stealing two quilts, value 5s.; 1 sheet, 2s.; and 3 hoots, 25s.; his property.

MARY GKEY . I am the wife of George Grey, of 26, Upper Rosoman-street—it is our dwelling-house, and is in the parish of St. James, Clerkenwell. On the night of 16th Sept. my husband was not at home, and I went out to market at eleven o'clock—I locked my room door alter me—I took my little girl, nine years old, with me, and left another little girl in the cradle asleep—I returned about half-past eleven—my street door was open, and a man stood partly behind it with a bundle in his arms—I put my key into my own door, and it was open—the man went out—I ran after him, and called, "Stop thief!"—he ran into Garnault-place and was stopped—I am quite sure the same man was stopped that ran out—the bundle was found—it contained all the articles stated but the boots, which were found in the morning—they are all my property, and were safe when I went out.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. What house do you keep? A. We have only an apartment—I got on the step of my door before I observed this—the door opens inside—I only saw the man's hand, and then he bolted out—I saw him all the way he ran till he was stopped—I did not tell M r. Wooden that the man had. black whiskers, and was a dark-looking fellow—I was not five yards from the prisoner when he was running—I had never seen him before that night—I saw him at the station on the Monday.

COURT Q. You followed him immediately he came out of the house? A. Yes; he ran about a hundred yards before he was taken by Mr. Adams—I never lost sight of him—I followed him closely—I saw him when Mr. Adams took him—there was no other man running from the house.

GEORGE HENRY ADAMS . On Saturday night, 16th Sept., about ten minutes before twelve o'clock, I was going along Garnault-place—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner running—I saw him throw the bundle over the railings of a house in Garnault-place—he ran about twelve yards; then he walked along—I seized him, and told him I was a constable, and he was my prisoner—he said, "Let me go, I am not the man"—I said "You are"—he said, "You will find you are mistaken, '—the prosecntrix came up and gave him into custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Was there not another man near you? A. There was no one near till I had got the prisoner in custody—I am a hair-dresser and a special constable—when I heard the cry of "Stop thief!" I was about thirty yards from the prisoner, walking towards him, he was near the area where he threw these things—there was nobody there but him.

Prisoner's Defence. I went to get shaved; another man passed by me, and the officer took me.

GUILTY . * Aged 40.— Transported for Seven Year.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2170
VerdictsGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2170. JOSEPHINE RAOUL , stealing 57 yards of silk, value 16l.; goods of John Walter Pugh, in his dwelling-house, and ALPHONSE LOUIS EUGENE PILON , feloniously receiving the same.

MR. D. T. EVANS conducted the Prosecution.

The prisoners being foreigners had the evidence interpreted to them.

JOHN KINGSLAND . I am assistant to Mr. John Walter Pugh, of Regent-street. On 31st Aug., about three o'clock, Raoul and two other French

women came to the house—they asked for some silk—I showed them some, and one of the women bought two yards and a half, and gave me a sovereign—I turned my back to get change—they went away—they had remained a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—next morning I missed a piece of silk from the counter, fifty-seven yards, worth about 16l.—it had lain so that Raoul could have command of it—I was in the shop the whole time—there was no other customer in the shop during the time of the supposed robbery—this is part of the silk (produced)—I think the whole fifty-seven yards are here within a yard or two.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ever see Raoul before? A. No—one of the other women was taller than her, and the other shorter—one of the others conducted the active part of the purchase—Eaoul had conversation with one of the other young men—I saw Raoul again about a week afterwards—I went to No. 26, Rupert-street, Haymarket—the interpreter took me into the room—Raoul and two other females were there—the policeman did not go in then; he went at another time, merely to search the house—the policeman went about three days afterwards—we took Raoul in custody in the street—I am prepared to swear that she is the woman—I have not the slightest doubt of her—she has a particularly thick nose—I should know her from a thousand by her features altogether.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you know Pilon before? A. Yes, it was through him we recovered the silk—I believe he informed the interpreter—when I went in the room I did not say I could not recognize Raoul—I looked round and said, "I know you, Madame"—I said it was her immediately.

GEORGE MARTIN . I am assistant to Messrs. Carter and Co., silk-mercers, in King-street, Cheapside. This silk is what we supplied to the prosecutors—here is my writing on the paper.

----CLOVER. I remember Raoul corning with two other women to the prosecutor's shop on the 31st Aug.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What were you doing in the shop? A. Nothing—Raoul was there about a quarter of an hour—I was near the door when she entered—there was nobody in the shop but them—they bought two yards and a quarter of black silk—Raoul asked me to go to another part of the shop for patterns.

JOHV GRAY (police-sergeant, C 10). In consequence of information I went to Mr. Young, a pawnbroker, in Princes-street, on Saturday, 9th Sept.—I found the prisoner Pilon in one of the boxes—I asked him if his name was Alphonse—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he bad pawned any silk at Harrison's, in Wardour-street—he said he had—I asked him where he got it from—he said from Madame some one, using some French name that I did not catch—he said she gave him things to pawn, and he returned her the duplicates and the money—I said, "It was stolen silk—you must go with me to the station"—I asked him where he lived—he said, "At No. 26, Rupert-street"—I went there, and in a chest of drawers I found two yards of this silk—I returned to the station and asked him where he got this silk from—he said a Frenchman had brought him twelve yards, and he had sold ten to Madame Antonio, and these two he kept for himself—I searched him and found on him eighteen duplicates, three of which refer to this silk, and ten to other silk—he afterwards said he was introduced by Madame Raoul to two Frenchwomen, and he received the silk from one of them at No. 13, Panton-square, to pawn, but he had never pawned but three times—these are the three duplicates which refer to the prosecutor's silk—on Monday week I

apprehended Raoul in Rupert-street—she said, "I know you, I will go with you, I am innocent, I know nothing about it"—I received ten yards of silk from Madame Antonio.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. What Pilon said you found to be correct? A. Yes—the Magistrate agreed to accept bail for him, but in consequence of what occurred afterwards he refused it.

ALFRED HEATH . I am assistant to Mr. Young, a pawnbroker. Pilon pawned fifteen yards of silk with me for 1l. 10s.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. You knew him very well before! A. Yes—he came on the 31st Aug., about five or six o'clock—I should say from the things that he had brought, that he had been in the habit of pawnir? things for ladies for about four years—as far as we know the things he has pawned have been all right—we know of no charge.

MR. EVANS. Q. In what name did he pawn? A. Alpbonse, not Pilon—he has redeemed pledges from our shop.

WILLIAM PENTECOST . I am assistant to Mr. Harrison, a pawnbroker in Wardour-street. On 31st Aug., between six and seven, Pilon pawned these twelve yards of silk for 1l. 10s. in the name of Alphonse—our house is about a hundred yards from Mr. Young's.

ARTHUR JOHN NORTH . I am assistant to Mr. Lorton, a pawnbroker in Green-street, Leicester-square. I have some silk pawned by Madame Deserry on 1st Sept.—I gave this duplicate to the person who pawned it.

ANTONIO CALLIGNE (through an interpreter). I live at No. 5, St. Martin's-street. I have known Pilon about fifteen months, and have been in the hahit of buying goods of him—about a fortnight ago he brought me ten yards of silk—this is part of it—I bought it at 6s. a yard—I was to pay 3l. for it—I paid 1l. down, and was to pay 10s. a week afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Had you known what Pilon was A. He sold me lace and soap, and other things—I had always the greatest confidence in him—I am a workwoman—I never pawned anything—Pilen has pawned jewellery and different things for me—I came to this country very ill, and wanted it.

(The prisoners received good characters).



Confined Nine Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2171
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2171. ALFRED HAY , stealing 9 shillings; the moneys of George Smith; having been before convicted.

GEORGE SMITH . I live in Holborn-buildings. On 14th Sept., I gave the prisoner nine shillings to go on an errand for me—he did not return.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. What did you give it him for? A. To go and fetch a donkey from Watford—that is ten or eleven miles from Uxbridge—I was to give 12s. for it, and I gave the prisoner 9s., and goods to the amount of 4s. 6d., that he might pay for the donkey, and get himself a day's work out of it—I said, if he did not sell the herrings I gave him to get the don key, he was to bring the money back that night—I left London that morning, and went down by the railway—I have employed the prisons before—he did not come to me, but I saw him, and said, "Where is the money?"—he said he had got drunk, laid down in the field, and lost it.

JOHN DENT (policeman, T 141). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction at this Court—(read—Convicted Jan., 1846; confined six months)—he is the person.

GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2172
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2172. JOHN WELLS , stealing 1 pair of boots, value 7s.; 1 sheet, 3s.; and 1 knife, 1s.; the goods of Nicholas M'Grath.

NICHOLAS M'GRATH . I live at No. 3, Helen's-place, St. George's—I am a cooper. I had these boots, and other articles, in the room I sleep in—I left them safe on the morning of the 11th of July, and went out to work—I left the prisoner there in bed—I returned, and the prisoner and the articles were Gone—I have not seen them since.

JOHANNA MULLER . I keep the house. I remember the prosecutor going away—the prisoner was there, and no one else—he came down with a bundle, went out, and I never saw him again—no one could have gone into that bedroom but him.

GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Three Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2173
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2173. JAMES CLEMENTS , stealing 1 spoon, value 2s. 6d., the goods of Frances Ward Thorpe.

FRANCES WARD THORPE . I live at Bedfont. I had a silver spoon safe on 20th Sept., about two o'clock, in a drawer—I missed it about four o'clock—the prisoner was there at three—this is the spoon (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. How do you know it? A. By the initials of "T. F. T." on it—I keep a beer-shop—I had no customer there that day from when I saw the spoon safe till I missed it—it was in a drawer in the room I occupy—I am a widow.

THOMAS BRAY (policeman, T 200). I took the prisoner—I charged him with the robbery, and this tea-spoon dropped from him on the floor.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

THIRD COURT.—Monday, September 25th, 1848.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the First Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2174
VerdictGuilty > with recommendation

Related Material

2174. JOHN FRANCIS GOLDING was indicted for bigamy.

JOHN MOPFATT . I live in Baker's-court, Baker-street. On 11th June, 1830, I was at St. Nicholas's Church, Liverpool, and gave away my sister, Matilda, to the prisoner—she is here now.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. What are you? A. A painter and glazier—my sister has been living in Liverpool—I have lived in London for the last eight years—about three months ago I got information, went to the prisoner, and asked him for 5s. a week for my sister—he said he would not give anything until he had seen her—I got my sister up from Liverpool, and went to him again in a fortnight or three weeks, with my brother, and demanded 8s. a week for my sister—I did not say a word about 8l. for my brother—I took my brother to make him come to a compromise with my sister—if I bad got the 5s. a week I should not have been here to-day—I said, "If you won't give me 5s., give me half-a-crown"—when that was refused I did not ask for 18d.—8l. was never mentioned—my brother is a painter and glazier—the prisoner and my sister lived together seven months, and then separated—I produced my sister and a policeman to the prisoner together, and gave him in charge—I have been in prison for shooting at a man—it was in self-defence—I was acquitted.

SARAH MASSEN . I am single, and live in Silver-street, Clerkenwell. I

was present on 4th April, 1836, at St. Mary's Church, Newington, when the prisoner was married to my sister, Elizabeth.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you see her last? A. Last night—the prisoner has kept two of my children for me, but one is dead—I may have told the Magistrate my name was Davis, and I was married.

JOSIAH BLACKLEY (policeman, H 57). The prisoner was given in my charge.—I produce two marriage certificates, one from Liverpool, and one from Newington, which I have compared with the register.

GUILTY . Aged 42.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined One Month.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2175
VerdictsNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2175. JULIA LEONARD , for a robbery on William Ebblewhite, and was stealing from his person I watch, 3 seals, and 1 ring, value 2l. 10s.; 4 sovereigns, and 1 shilling; his goods and moneys: and JAMES FURLONG , as an accessary after the fact.

WILLIAM EBBLEWHITE . I live at Nottingham-place, Commercial-road On 8th Sept., in the evening, I was going into Fieldgate-street, and was accosted by some one—I turned suddenly round, and was struck on the back of my head with a blunt instrument—I called out, "Murder!" and fell insensible—I recovered, and missed my watch and seals, and found my pocket which had had four sovereigns and one shilling in it, turned out—they were safe five minutes before—the guard was left round my neck—Benjamin came up, and gave me my watch, without the seals—this is it (produced).

BENJAMIN BENJAMIN . I live in Emmett-street, Brick-lane. I was in Fieldgate-street, and saw Leonard and two others follow Ebblewhite, as he left a public-house—they tried to knock him down at the corner of a court, with a kind of life-preserver, but he caught bold of the railing—he tried to strike Leonard with his umbrella—a woman with a baby then ran to one side of him—Leonard was on his other side, and a man behind him—the woman with a baby took four sovereigns from his pockets, and gare the others one a piece—Leonard took a white-handled pen-knife from her pocket, cut the ribbon, and took his watch and seals—he called "Murder!"—the three ran towards the Commercial-road—Leonard ran towards Black Lion-yard—she was stopped—I took a watch from her, which I gave to Ebblewhits, and saw him safe home—I knew them all before—I saw Leonard 3nd Furlong about an hour afterwards, in the Rose and Crown—Ebblewhite had been there before the robbery, to get change, to pay a cab man for a pane of glss which he had broken.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What time was it? A. About seven o'clock—the woman with the baby knocked me down—Sergeant Kelly has not told me what to say—I have never been accused of any offence—I never had a quarrel with Leonard.

BENJAMIN SOLOMON . I live in Gravel-lane, Houndsditch. I saw Leonard knock Ebblewhite down—a young girl took four sovereigns out of his pocket—Leonard cut his guard with a knife, and got his watch—they all ran away a gentleman caught her, and got the watch—I gave information—I knew them all before.

Cross-examined. Q. Have not you said you knew nothing but what Kelly made you come up to swear? A. No—I am a cigar-maker.

THOMAS KELLY (police-sergeant, H 2). Benjamin told me something"at the station—I went with him to several public-houses, and saw the prisoners come out of the Angel and Crown—I took Leonard, and said she was charged with the robbery—before she answered, Furlong said, "The boy must be mistaken, for she has been in my company all day"—further on she said "What robbery?"—I said, "For assaulting Mr. Ebblewhite; he is in

dangerous state"—she resisted, and tried to drop something several times—I took her to the station—next morning, before the Magistrate, Furlong said, "I deny the charge; I was drinking with her, but know nothing of the robbery"—I had often seen them together before.

Cross-examined. Q. Does not she drink? A. Yes, and has very severe cuts on her head—I bad a person in custody for stabbing her on the head.

ELIZABETH CULMER . I am the wife of John Culmer, a policeman. I searched Leonard—she took this white handled knife (produced) from her pocket.

Furlong's Defence. I never saw Leonard before I was taken with her.


LEONARD— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2176
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2176. JAMES FURLONG was again indicted for a common assault.

BENJAMIN BENJAMIN . When the prisoner and Leonard were taken, I was standing by the public-house door—the prisoner struck me over the head with a walking-stick, with a knob to it—I had done nothing to him.

Prisoner's Defence. I never touched him.

GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Two Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2177
VerdictNot Guilty > fault

Related Material

2177. STEVEN SURTELL , stealing 1 handkerchief, value 2s. 6d.; the goods of William Drury, from his person.—2nd COUNT, of a man unknown; Laving been before convicted.

MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES WILLIAM CROUCH (policeman). I was a cooper. I was on London-bridge, between four and five o'clock, and saw the prisoner loitering about—he tried two or three pockets—he took a handkerchief out of a gentleman's pocket—I told the gentleman—we followed the prisoner, took him, and found the handkerchief under his waistcoat—the gentleman said it was his—I gave it to a constable—the gentleman went before the Magistrate next day, and I believe he is now gone to America.

GEORGE WILD (policeman). The prisoner was given in my charge with the handkerchief—the gentleman was examined before the Magistrate, and said his name was Drury.

ROBERT PEARSON (City-policeman.) I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(read—Convicted Nov., 1847, and confined four month)—he is the person.

GUILTY on 2nd Count. Aged 20.

The COURT considered that the prosecutor's name teas known, and ordered the prisoner to be DISCHARGED.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2178
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2178. JOHN RICHMAN , feloniously cutting and wounding Caroline Richman, with intent to murder her.—2nd COUNT. with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

CAROLINE RICHMAN . I am the prisoner's wife—I lived at Church-lane, Liraehouse, away from him, for about a fortnight. On 16th Sept. I met him, at his request, at a friend's, in the East India-road—he seemed very glad to see me, behaved very kindly, and begged my pardon for what had taken place—in the evening I met him at his sister's, by appointment—when I got into the shop he shook hands, embraced me, led me to the side of the counter, and said he had parted with me in the morning, but did not intend to part iih me any more—he sat by me, put his left arm round my neck, and with

the other seemed to take something out of his pocket—I felt a knife on my, throat, and called out, "A knife! a knife!"—I put my hand up, and my thumb was cut—the blood flowed from my neck, not a great deal; it was not a bad wound—I got hold of the handle—it appeared to be a knife—he was pulled away from me, and ran away—I was taken to a doctor—my throat is sore now—I have not yet got the strapping off it.

GEORGT. RICHMAN . I am a son of Isaac Ricbman, of Robin Hood-lane The prisoner was sitting in the shop, waiting for his wife—she came went round the counter, and sat down by his side—he spoke to her, andkissed her; then put his left arm round her neck, pulled her head back with his face on hers, and drew something across her throat—she hallooed out, "He has got a knife!"—I saw blood come from her throat—she ran away—he had been in the shop five or ten minutes before it happened—they were talking as if they were friends.

JAMES CAFFELL . I am a broker, of St. Ann's-place, Limehouse. I went with. Mrs. Richman to meet her husband—he was very happy to receive her shook hands with her, took her to the other side of the counter, and sat down next to her—her sister and brother-in-law were on the other side of him—all at once, after kissing her, he put his left arm round her neck, and pulled her towards him—I heard her sing out, "A knife! a knife!"—I saw no knife in his hand—the boy got hold of his hand, trying to get him away—I got between them, and got her out of doors—she was wounded on the throat and thumb—I saw the prisoner pass the window, and followed him—he said, "It is a pretty job now"—I said, "Yes," and gave him in charge.

RONALD ROBERTSON . I am a surgeon, of High-street, Poplar. I was called to the station, and found Mrs. Richman with an incised wound two inches long on the throat—it was very slight, and merely divided the skin—it would have done grievous bodily harm if it had been deeper—she also had a wound on the right thumb—she is perfectly recovered now.

ROBERT SHEEN (policeman). Cafiell gave the prisoner into my charges—he had been drinking, but was partly sober—going to the station be said, "I done it with a small knife, I am sorry for it; I threw the knife away, but where it is I do not know."

Prisoner's Defence. My senses were gone; I did not know what I was doing; if Caffell bad not come in with her it would not have happened.

GUILTY on 2nd Count. Aged 49.— Transported for Fifteen Years.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2179
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2179. JOHANNA MULLINS , stealing 2 plates, I towel, and other articles, value 3s.; the goods of Samuel Debenham, her master.

SALOME DEBENHAM . My husband's name is Samuel. The prisoner was in our service—she left six or eight weeks ago—I missed a great many articles—these things produced are mine—Mrs. Galvin had them—next day I went to the prisoner's house, and gave her in charge—Mrs. Galvin washed for Mr. M'Dermot, who lived in my house.

MARY GALVIN . I washed for Mr. M'Dermot—about two months before I was before the Magistrate the prisoner gave me two plates, a piece of carpet, and a piece of ribbon—she said Mr. M'Dermot gave them to her, and I might as well have them.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not give her the plates; I found the carpet on the dust-bin.

MRS. DEBENHAM re-examined. The things do not belong to Mr. M'Dermot, but to me—there is my mark on them—the carpet was in the kitchen.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2180
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2180. THOMAS SAUL and RICHARD BAILEY , stealing 180 rabbit-skins, value 2l. 5s.; the goods of Johan Heinrich Heckmann; both having been before convicted.

JOHN' NEIDERMAN . I am a fur skin-dresser, of Whitechapel. On 2nd Sept. I received twelve dozen rabbit-skins to flesh from "Wilhelmig, Mr. Heckmann's foreman—I took them to my sister's, 4, Cross-street, Brick-lane, and began to work on them with my sister—I left them in the shed, in the yard, with other skins—there was no door to the shed—I missed fifteen or sixteen dozen skins next day—they were all Mr. Heck nann's—I gave information, went to Petticoat-lane, and saw Saul and a person with him—they ran away—I ran after Saul, but could not catch him—I saw a bundle on the ground, but do not know who dropped it—I afterwards saw him at 5, Thrall-street—he said, "How about those skins?"—I said, "How about them? I want my work back"—he said he knew nothing about them—I said I knew better, for he was the man I followed, and if he did not bring them back, I should give him in charge—we found twelve dozen and eleven rabbit-skins in the bundle—I can swear to this one (produced)—I cut it—it is one of those I lost from the shed.

Cross-examined by MR. BRIARLY.Q. Had you ever seen Saul before? A. No—I am sure of him.

WILLIAM MOLLERHAUSEN . I am a flesher. I work for Neiderman—on 2nd Sept., between eight and nine o'clock in the morning, I took nine dozen and eleven skins to the shed—I afterwards missed them.

GEORGE NEIDERMAN . I am a skin-dresser, of Thrall-street, Spitalfields. On Sunday morning, 3rd Sept., about ten o'clock, I saw the prisoners in Petticoat-lane—Bailey had a bundle under his arm—I did not know him—he looked at me, dropped it, and ran away—I ran after him a little way, and picked up the bundle—it was three rabbit-skins—I met Saul in Princes-street about half-past twelve—I asked him for the skins—he said he knew nothing of them—I knew him before, but will not swear it was him I saw with Bailey.

JULIA ISAACS . My husband is a furrier, of Petticoat-lane. On 3rd Sept., about ten o'clock, Bailey came and asked if I would buy some skins—I said, "Yes"—he asked what I would give a dozen, and showed me one from his pocket—I said I could not tell till I saw them all—he said he bad twelve or thirteen dozen, and would go and fetch them—he left, and Neiderman came—I saw Bailey in the street, coming towards the house with some rabbit-skins in a bundle—Saul was walking by his side—he saw Neiderman, dropped the bundle, and ran away—I saw one of the Neidermans pick it up.

Cross-examined. Did you see what was in it? A. Some skins.

JOSEPH WILHELMIG —I am foreman to Johan Heinrich Heckmann. On 2nd Sept. I gave John Neiderman twelve dozen rabbit-skins—I know two of these skins produced to be Mr. Heckmann's.

GEORGE KING (policeman). At two o'clock on Sunday afternoon Saul was given into my charge—Bailey said at the Police-office he should have known nothing of it if it had not been for Saul—Saul said that Bailey knew nothing of the stealing.

ROBERT GIFFORD (policeman). I took Bailey—he said he knew nothing about it.

PATRICK MADDEN (policeman). I produce a certificate—(read—Thomas Saul convicted Dec, 1846, and confined six months)—Saul is the man.

JAMES EVES (policeman). I produce a certificate of Bailey's conviction (read—Convicted Jan., 1847, and confined one year)—I was present—he is the man.

GUILTY .—Both Transported for Seven Years.


Monday, Sept. 25th; Tuesday, 26th; Wednesday, 27th; Thursday, 28th; Friday, 29th; Saturday, 30th; and Monday, Oct. 2nd.


Before Mr. Baron Platt and the Seventh Jury.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2181
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2181. WILLIAM LACEY, THOMAS FAY , and WILLIAM CUFFEI , were indicted, for that they, with others, feloniously did compass, imagine,. devise, and intend, to levy war against the Queen, in order by force and constraint to compel her to change her councils, and that they did evidence that compassing, &c., by divers overt acts set forth in the indictment:—2nd Count, for a like compassing, with intent to depose the Queen from the style, honour, and dignity of the Imperial Crown, &c.


(Upon the application of the Counsel for the prisoners, the whole Jury panel was read over. As the first Juror was about to be sworn, MR. BALLANTINE (for Lacey and Cuffey) challenged him, alleging as cause that he did at stand indifferent between the Crown and the prisoners. The ATTORNEY GENERAL having pleaded issue was joined, triers were appointed, and each Juror was then sworn and examined on the voire dire, MR. BALLASTINE asking him whether he had expressed any opinion as to the guilt or isscence of the prisoners, or any wish as to the result of the trial. Authorities referred to; 1 Coke on Lit., pages 158a & 287; Chitty's Criminal Lar, page 550; Townley's case, reported in Foster; & Layer's case.

WILLIAM BROOM CROSS (police-sergeant, G 8). I was present at the apprehension of the prisoner Fay on Friday, 18th Aug. I rode in the same cab that brought him to Bow-street—on the way he told me he had been secretary to the confederate club, likewise to the Chartist club held at Cartwrights Coffee-house, but he had resigned the books on the Saturday previous.

JOSEPH THOMPSON (police-sergeant, F 11.) From information I received I went to 11, Hollins-street, Wardour-street, Soho, on the evening of 18th Aug. last, at eight o'clock, to a back room on the third floor—I there found Cuffey, and took him into custody—I told him he was charged with felony—he said, "Have you got a warrant?"—I said, "No, it is not necessary"—I told him he was charged with others with wilfully and unlawfully combining against her Majesty—he said, "Oh that is quite sufficient; I am a Chartist; I understand it"—West was with me—I commenced searching the room—I saw him go to a drawer, fumble about, and apparently take something ont—I went and caught hold of his hand—we had a scuffle, and in the scuffle he tried to pass this pistol to his wife—it fell on the ground—he said it was loaded—I picked it up—it was loaded with powder and ball, and primed—I also found this banner with "Westminster district" on it (produced).

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Did he say that the banner had been used on various occasions. A. Not then; he said before the Magistrate that it had been used on 10th April, and also in Hertfordshire, at some land association of Mr. O'Connor's—I did not take Mrs. Cuffey into custody—she was rather active, as most wives are—this was a small room at the top of the house—it was not a wretched room, for a garret it was a little better

than usual—I read over the charge to him when I took him—it had been written for me by Mr. Burnaby, the chief clerk at Bow-street—other men had previously been apprehended on a charge of being connected with this offence.

WILLIAM WEST (police-sergeant, 7.) I accompanied Thompson when he apprehended Cuffey—I went to the house between ten and eleven o'clock next morning, and found this pike-handle (produced) in a cock-loft, the entrance to which was close to the door of Cuffey's room.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. How do you know this to be a pike-staff. A. It resembles those I have seen with pikes on them—the loft is above the garret—I did not search the loft on the first occasion, I overlooked it—I did not know there was a loft, no one told me there was one—I went back of my own accord—I found the outer door open, and went up—I do not know where the witness Powell was at that time—I did not know him at that time—it was a trap-door that led to the loft—I did not see it on the first occasion—Mrs. Cuffey was down at the office at that time—I did not produce this at the Police-court—I had it there, but I gave no evidence—I told the solicitor to the Treasury that I had it.

THOMAS PRONGER (policeman, A 237.) On 18th Aug. last, I took Lacey into custody at his own house, the Charter coffee-shop, 32, Strutton-ground, Westminster—I found this card in the club-room, on the first-floor, where they met—I know it was the room in which they met, because I have been there several times during their meetings—the Wallace Brigade met there—(This card being read, the name of William Lacey appeared as Sub-Secretary)—I also found on a shelf, in a book in the sitting-room behind the coffee-shop, this receipt for the hiring of the Milton-street theatre for a meeting—(This was dated July 5, 1848.)

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Then you have attended these meetings? A. Yes, in plain clothes—I did not require any ticket or sign to be admitted—I was allowed to go in—the discussions were then going on—I then learnt that the name was the "Wallace Brigade"—the door was closed against us at times—I do not mean when I was in uniform, but when I was in plain clothes—I was refused admission after 26th June—I did not go in afterwards at all—they had found out before that I was a policeman—I was admitted at times, though I was known to be a policeman.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did you know Powell before 15th Aug.? A. I never knew him at all till I saw him at the Police-court.

CHARLES TILDEN . I am a brass-chaser, living at Little Earl-street, Seven Dials; I work for Mr. Martin, of 18, Grezert-street, Rathbone-place—I became a member of the Chartist Association on 29th May—I belonged to the Dean-street locality—the prisoner Cuffey was my class-leader—according to the rules of the Association, each class-leader has nine men under him—it is his duty to give orders—I never saw the rules in writing at the society—I learnt them from the delegates—they were not printed—I have received orders from Cuffey—in Aug. last, Cuffey told me to get some gunpowder, to he made up into cartridges—he did not give me any money; he said it would be 10d.—he said they were to fire on the policemen—I said I would get the powder, but as I had not got a gun, it was no use getting the powder—he said never mind, when the time arrived, we should break into the gun-shops—about a week afterwards, be came to me one Sunday morning, and asked me whether I had got the powder—I told him yes, and that I could not get it under 1s., but I had got it—about a week after that, I met him in Wardour-street,

and asked him the way to make the cartridges, and he explained that it was twisting paper round a bit of wire or anything round—about the middle of June, I saw him at his lodgings in Hollins-street, and he showed me a pike—head—I said it was very blunt, and was of no use, and I told him I would sharpen it for him—he said very well, and he got down the pole, which was about twelve feet long, and put himself in an attitude to make an attack—he likewise showed me a screw-hole on the top of the pole, and there was a screw tied on to the pike, so that it could be ready at a minute's notice—this is the pole (produced)—I know it by some marks in the centre, and by the turning—he said it was Mitchell's pattern—about a week after that, I saw him at his own place, casting bullets from letter-type—he said they were to be made up in cartridges, to fire on the police—I said I had seen So-and so and he had been telling me about ginger-beer bottles, and I told him what was in them, ragged pieces of iron-nails, gunpowder done round with tow, and dipped in turpentine—he said they would be very good things, they were very good for the wives of the Chartists to be chucking out of windows, while their husbands were down in the street fighting with the police—I recollect the time when the news came about the rising in Ireland—about that tin:; Cuffey told me that the soldiers were being drained away, and that London would soon be in our hands—he said he hoped I should not flinch in coming out, and I said I should be at my post whenever he should call me, if it was in the middle of the night.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. When did you first see Cuffey about these matters? A. The beginning of it was after he was my class-leader, about a fortnight after I joined—I had seen him many times before that—I made the application to be put under him—I was ambitious of being one of his officers—I was a private—I expected promotion—if the thing; succeeded, I was to be made a general, or something of that—I was not to be made King—I expected to be made President of the Commonwealth—I was a Chartist before I joined the Association—I was at work at that time—I have not been in any difficulty to speak of—I bad been locked up merely for getting drunk—I was had up once, seven or eight years ago—I was waiting for a companion of mine in Whitehall-gardens, to go to Putney races, and was standing looking at James I., it being my trade to cast those figures, and I was looking to see whereabouts it was put together, when a constable came up to me, and said I had no business to stand there, and desired me to move on—I thought he exceeded his duty, and did not like his manner of speakiag to me, and thought I would be obstinate, and there I stood all day from nine in the morning till five in the evening, when I was taken up, and taken to the station in Gardener's-lane—I was taken to Bow-street, it was too late, so they took me back again—I was not charged with picking any One's pocket—they searched me, I suppose to see what they could find—I was ordered to find bail for six months—I did so—I remained in prison three weeks—I am sure that is the only time I have been in prison—I have been in a court of justice, merely as a witness, not for the police, but on a private affair—I have been working at my own trade.

Q. I suppose, at the time you joined the Chartists, you were in earnest, and did not mean to inform against them? A. I did not know what their principles were—I joined as a moral force Chartist—I told Cuffey I had bought 1s. worth of powder, but I had not—I did not get paid for it—I told him I had bought it for the purpose of seeing whether I could find out anything to stop it—I was looking for an opportunity to stop it—I intended to

go on with them as regards moral force, but not to have any movement in the physical force, because I thought it was not a right thing—I should think the gunpowder cartridges and ginger-beer bottles were for physical force—I did not fill any of the ginger-beer bottles—I reminded Cuffey of them, because another man told me of them; it was not Powell, it was a man named Peter Cashel—I merely told Cuffey about it to see what he would say, I whether there were any fresh orders coming—he might not have told me without—it led him on to think I was sincere—I was not sincere in the physical force movement—I meant to stop the progress of it, if any attempt was made—I did not mention to Cuffey the way in which the ginger-beer bottles were to be used—Cuffey said they were very good things for their wives to chuck out of the windows on the police—I did offer to sharpen the pike—head—I did that from the same motive—it was not to lead him on, and then to betray him; that was not leading him on—I meant to stop the physical force movement, that was why I offered to sharpen the pike—head—I was in communication with the officers of the Government—I was not employed by them—I first communicated with them about a month after I joined the Chartists, some time in June—it was after that that I offered to sharpen the pike—head—it was said, merely to see what I could get out of him, to see what movements were on—it was not to see how far I could get him to go—I could not get him to go at all myself—he had orders from the wardens who were above him—from time to time during June I communicated what was going on—I was not associated with Powell—I did not know him till I saw him on this trial—I did not know he was employed—there was nobody associated with me—I do not expect to get anything for this—I do it for the good of the public, and likewise of myself—if they succeeded in burning houses they would stop trade and put me out of work, and I have a wife and family—they were to set fire to people's houses, and if anybody opposed them they were to knock them on the head—that would of course stop trade, and cause me to loose my work—that was the good I contemplated to myself by turning spy and informer—I swear that—I was not examined before the Magistrate—I was not examined at all till Saturday, on Dowling's trial—I heard of Cuffey's being taken into custody when I went to his house, about a quarter of an hour afterwards—I did not know he was to be taken—he was taken on the evening I went to his house—I had been before he was taken, and I went after—I went alone the first time—I did not go into his room, I might if I liked—he lives in a garret—I never noticed that there was a cockloft there, or a loft at all—I now know there is one from what I have heard—I did not know it before—I have been into his room several times—about twenty-four times—I never noticed a trap-door there—I did not know there was one—I did not put the pole into it—I merely went to the house to get information from Cuffey—I did not know he was apprehended till I went the second time—I did not get the information I wanted—I knew he was taken, because I saw his son at the door of his house—I believe it to be his son—he is about twenty-seven years of age—I ascertained from him that he was taken—I was not in communication with West, the policeman, at that time, I did not know him then—I am now living by my work; that is the only mode I have no other means—I am in regular work with Mr. Martin, of 18, Grezert-street—I get 28s. a week, sometimes less sometimes more—I have been working for him off and on thirteen years.

Q. Then do you mean that you were in respectable employment at the time you were carrying on this additional business of a spy? A. Yes—I

could live without being a spy—on my solemn oath I have no other means a living, except by what I am earning by my labour—I have received nothing else—I do not receive anything from the prosecution, only my dinner—I have received no money, expect my dinner-money, 18d. a day, which I have had since I have been here—I have not received anything else from Government—I do not expect to receive anything else, except the 18d. a day for my dinner while I am attending here—I have not asked for anything elseI expect to be paid for my time while I am here, not while I am at work—I expect my regular day's money—I only expect to get my expenses, nothing more—I never refuse anything—I should not be in the least ashamed of taking anything from the Government—I lived at 1, Phœnix-street for a year and a half, up to 12th Aug.—from there I went to 26, Little Earl-street, and I live there now—I was to get llb. of powder for the 10d.—I was to make that up into cartridges—I found Cuffey casting bullets up in his garret—his wife was not there, nor any of the little Cuffeys—he had no cauldron—he had a tobacco-pipe—he had a pair of pliers and a mould—he had not much lead—he was using letter type—he had thirty or forty letters—they were not capita-letters, but small ones.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You said when you were lootings King James, you were thinking of going to Putney races? A. I did not say that I was thinking of going, but I went there for the purpose of waiting for a companion of mine to go to Putney races—I had not been at Putney races before, nor to any races—I have not been since—I swear that—it was a boat-race, not a horse-race—I do not know Powell—Peter Cashel is not a police man.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Do you recollect the day you were takes up, was it 5th July, 1843? A. That was about the time—it was just after Mr. Drummond had been shot—the charge against me was for loitering about Whitehall-gardens during the day, and not giving a satisfactory account of myself.

COURT. Q. What was the name of your companion you were waiting for? A. I forget his name, but it was the one I lodged with—he had lodged with me about twelve months—I did know his name, but it is seven or eight years ago, and I forget it—he was a tailor.

MARTHA TILDEN . I am the wife of Charles Tilden—I know Cuffey—I saw him last on 13th Aug.—I had seen him twice before—on 13th Aug. I told him he was not to come to my lodgings—I had removed the day before, because I would not allow him to come to our lodgings, and my husband was too ill to be seen—he said he wanted to see him just for half an hour up at his own house—I said he could not see him for five minutes he was too bad to be seen, by the doctor's orders—he asked me where we had moved to, and I told him to Earl-street, but did not tell him any number or any other place—I was going out to work at the time, and could not stop to talk to him.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Who does your husband wore for? A. Mr. Martin, to whom he was apprenticed—I have two children.

THOMAS POWELL . I am a carpenter. Shortly after the 10th of April I joined the Cripplegate locality of the Chartist Confederation—I was appointed one of the Council—our place of meeting was the front long-room, at Cartwright's coffee-shop, Redcross-street, Cripplegate—I was a member down to Aug.—I attended meetings of the same body at other places, and made notes of what occurred, sometimes the next day, and sometimes the day after, and

on one or two occasions, if not three, immediately I got home—they are very short—I speak principally from my memory (looking at his notes)—the first meeting Fay was at, was on Friday, July 28th, at Hopkinson's coffee-shop, Saffron-hill—(it was held by adjournment from a former meeting at the same place—I was present at the adjournment)—on 28th, fourteen persons were present—Ferdinando, Mr. Page, from Tothill-street, Westminster locality; Brewster, Rose, Mullins, Payne, myself, Hopkinson, an Irish Confederate,: Mr. Home, (his first appearance,) Flannagan, Fay, and others—a return was given in of the number of fighting men, and the feeling of the members of the respective localities, by the new delegates that came there on that evening from localities in the metropolis—I was then acting as a delegate for Cripplegate locality—I cannot say bow many fighting men they returned—Mr. Payne was chairman, but Mullins was spokesman—a resolution was passed that each member should bring 10s. as soon as possible, to defray the expenses incurred by the committee—the meeting was adjourned to meet at Cart-wright's, on Sunday afternoon, July 30th—Payne, Dowling, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, Bassett, (his first appearance,) Stevenson, myself, Ferdinando, Fay, and others, were present, twenty-eight in all—I got there between three and half-past three o'clock—returns were given in, the same as before, by the new delegates, and the ulterior committee resigned—that consisted of five—there was some conversation about increasing them to the number of nine, and some charge was brought against Mullins and Rose, two of the five, as being spies—Payne, Rose, Mullins, Bassett, and Dowling, were elected—it was confined to five, but a resolution was passed that four others should be elected at the next meeting—I never was proposed—I said I bad heard that some charge had been brought against Rose and Mullins, and I thought it was better to set aside such trash, and have nothing more to do with it; and they were elected—I also made some remark that it was impossible for them to do anything in our movement, unless they could produce a spirit of subordination among the members—I believe that was after the allegation made against the two men as spies—it was resolved that they should meet at Cartwright's, at six on the following Monday evening, if necessary, but there was no meeting—they met next at the Dispatch coffee-house, Bride-lane. Fleet-street, on 1st Aug.—Rose, Mullins, Brewster, Dowling, Thompson, Donovan, Lynch, Warry, and others, thirty-four in all, were present—Payne was in the chair—Fay was there—I do not remember seeing the other prisoners—Bezer was there, it was his first appearance—he gave in a report of fifty fighting men from Cartwright's, for which locality he was secretary—he was not a delegate—there were other returns made—Fay, Thompson, Lynch, and Donovan, four Irishmen, were elected on the committee—their club belonged to the Irish Confederates at one time, but they altered the name to the Irish Felon-club—I am not certain which it was called at this time—Fay was secretary—they used to meet at Cartwright's—the reason given for adding four Irishmen to the committee was, that a feeling of jealousy existed—the whole of the four spoke that evening, and stated that they thought there was not a sufficient number of Irishmen on the committee, and in consequence of that they were added—there was some discussion on the propriety of dispatching a party to Limerick or Cork—I forget who brought that forward; it was discussed, and lost, at the voting—(The witness here requested that every witness subpoenaed to speak against his character might be ordered out of Court)—during the discussion it was said that it would be a waste of money, and there would be no possibility of getting a correct account of the state of affairs in Ireland; that was said by both sides—a report was given in from the

delegates the same as before—nothing more was said about the Irish messenger—Dowling moved that there should be a demonstration on the following Sunday, 6th Aug., at two o'clock, on Primrose-hill, of Chartists and Confederates, to ascertain their number and strength; that was lost by a majority of five—a resolution was passed that every delegate should return to his locality, and ascertain how the members were prepared for regularity of preparation, and ready to be called out at an hour's notice, and to bring friends to the committee on Friday, Aug. 4th—Mullins stated that he had seen Mr. Kydd that day, and that Mr. Kydd, if the people came out for physical force, would not be backward in heading them; but that Mr. Kydd had entered on the executive only as a moral force man, and that he took the office on that ground—Kydd was one of the executive of the National Convention—the executive had to pay attention to the localities, to look after them, and receive names from them—they were in connection with the localities—that communication was received with a degree of satisfaction and surprise by the delegates—the meeting then adjourned to meet at Cartwright's on Aug. 4th—I attended—there were thirty-two present—Payne was in the chair on all occasions—Cuffey was there for the first tide, and Rose, Brewster, Gurney, Mullins, Bassett, (his second time,) Donovan, Lynch, Dowling, myself, Thompson, and others—I have not Fay's name-there were new delegates present; they gave in a report of the number of fighting men; I have no numbers—money was paid by the new delegates, and by some of the old, to Rose, as secretary—there was a discussion about what scarfs were to be worn, as signs of leadership, and it was decided that they should be red calico sashes—there was a conversation in committee between Payne, Bassett, and Mullins, about a communication that had been received from Kydd, and of a circular he had received, desiring to know how far the delegates then sitting in London, were desirous of sending a delegate to Manchester—I believe Bassett communicated that to the meeting—Payne made some remarks about his sleeping two or three nights at Lacey's house, and Lacey was proposed as a proper person to go to Manchester as a delegate, and it was agreed to—Bassett was proposed to wait on Lacey, who was not present, on the subject, and Mullins gave him money for the purpose—he went off, and I saw no more of him that evening—a resolution was passed by the general body of delegates that they should submit to the determination of the ulterior committee, the committee of nine—it was resolved that the delegates should call on their respective members to meet at half-past two on the following Sunday, at their localities, and they were not, by any means, to leave there, or visit Kennington-common that day—there had been a meeting at Kennington-common advertised in the newspapers, which was not called by any of the Chartist or Confederate bodies, and they were not to go for fear of coming into collision with the police and the authorities—a resolution was passed that every delegate should select four men, or more, for the purpose of placing them as telegraphs from the Dispatch coffee-house, Bride-lane, to Kennington-common, to communicate information to the delegates sittings the Dispatch coffee-house—it was resolved that they should meet at the Dispatch coffee-house, at half-past two o'clock on the following Sunday—I attended there, and was appointed as one to see the persons stationed as telegraphs—I returned to the meeting of delegates just at its close, and found Payne, Brewster, Mullins, and others, there—I have no names—Cuffey was there when I returned, and 1 saw him there before the business commenced—the resolution as to stationing persons was carried out—I saw every man placed—the meeting separated about a quarter of an hour after I returned—I

have no note of what took place, but my memory furnishes me—when I returned, Page, of Tothill-street, Westminster, was speaking on the subject of giving Mr. Bund Hughes, the Government reporter, a sound thrashing for what he had been doing—Page was a delegate—they met again on Monday night, 7th Aug., at Dennis's coffee-house, Great St. Andrew's-street, Seven-dials—there were thirty persons present; Cuffey, myself, Brewster, Mullins, Rose, Allnutt, Donovan, Dowling, Fay. Lynch, Thompson, Bassett, Ritchie, and others—the Ulterior Committee resigned that night, in consequence of the rumours of Smith O'Brien's arrest, and partly from a want of confidence that five of the committee had in the new four that had been added, and the four new ones complained that they had not seen the plans of the other five, and the five gave a similar explanation of not seeing the plans of the others—a new committee was appointed, consisting of five only, Payne, Rose, Mullins, Bassett, and Brewster—it was arranged, after some discussion, that there should be a visionary president, and that one of the committee who had the lowest votes should withdraw to make room for him when he entered on the seat of presidentship, some one asked who this person was, and one of the delegates said he was neither in London, nor out of London, and that was my meaning in saying a "visionary president"—Bassett had the lowest amount of votes—it was resolved that each member of every locality was to pay three farthings a head, as a salary for the president—each delegate was to make that known, and was to collect it—Payne, who was in the chair, read a letter, which he said he had received from Lacey, and part of it was in these words, "Trade is very good, and you will soon receive a very good order"—that was received by the meeting with satisfaction—we then adjourned, to meet on the following Wednesday, Aug. 9th, at the Lord Denman beer-shop, Suffolk-street, Borough—I attended—there were Payne, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, Dowling, myself, Gurney, Donovan, Bassett, and others, in all twenty-eight present—as I was going in, I met Cuffey in the passage, going away—the meeting had begun before I got there—I shook hands with Cuffey, and asked him bow be was—after I arrived reports were given in of the feeling of the members of the localities, and also a return of fighting men—Gurney gave in his return, either 100 or 120, but I think it was 100, from our locality—Gurney was formerly in the Artillery—his duty, as wardsman, was to look after his 100 men—each wardsman had 100 men under him, and each class-leader had nine under him, I often heard that said at Cartwright's—I do not remember the numbers mentioned by anybody else that night—a resolution was passed that each delegate should be called on to declare his allegiance, and determination to abide by the decision of the Ulterior Committee, and they stated, all except one, that they would abide by the determination of the committee—I am not sure who that one was—I think his name was Horne—he gave a reason for it, but I forget it—he came in nearly at the close of the business—Payne read another Utter from Lacey, and, in answer to some questions, he stated that Lacey was still at Manchester—some of the delegates present asked how long he was going to continue there, and Payne replied, as long as was necessary—I think, but am not sure, that there was a return given in at that meeting of the number of cartridges that were prepared—I have no note of it, I go from memory—a resolution was passed that they should meet at Perry's coffee-house, Church-street, Bethnal-green, on Friday, Aug. 11th, at eight o'clock—I went, and found no meeting—when I entered the coffee-room, I saw a person busy in packing up some chairs—he knew me, and said there was no meeting; that it was all up; that the police had been to Rose's house, and seized his papers—

the same person who told me that had been stationed on the Sunday as one of the telegraphs—the next meeting 1 attended was at the Orange Tree Orange-street, Red Lion-square, on Monday night, 14th—I went up stairs—I have not kept a memorandum of the persons who attended, but, to the best of my belief, there were twenty-five persons there—they were Mullins Brewster, Payne, Gurney, Fay, Ritchie, Scurry, Cuffey, and others, whose faces I knew, but not their names—a report was given in from some new delegates of the state of their localities, and of the number of fighting men the number of ball-cartridges that each delegate himself had prepared, and also the members of his locality—the number was 5000 fighting men of Chartists alone, and the number of cartridges was between 500 and 600—a question was asked about the number of Irish Confederates, and Mullins said they were about the same number as the Chartists—a resolution was proposed, I think by Mullins, and carried, that a deputation of two, Ritchie and Scurry, should wait on the North-western Railway engineers, to ascertain what were their feelings, and how far they were disposed to come over ad join the Chartists in their movement—they were to ascertain that if possible, and they were requested by no means to give them the least ides what was their purpose in going there to wait on them—it was mentioned that there was a dispute between the company and the men—I did not know of that till that evening—Mullins proposed, and it was resolved, that each delegate should select four or six men, or as many as he could get, men whom he could depend on, that would do anything and everything—some one asked what purpose they were for; and Cuffey said, to fire houses, railway premises, trains, or anything—Mullins then looked up as the gas. which was burning at the time, and said, "If I look up at the gas you will all know what I mean"—neither Ritchie or Scurry were present when that was resolved—they had left on their deputation, and the sum of 1s. 6d. had been voted to defray their expenses in the way of refreshments—I am not certain it was put to the vote, but I know 1s. 6d. was paid—they were not present when the last part of this occurred—Cuffey was secretary to the Ulterior Committee at this time—he stated so himself that evening—Brewster's conduct was not altogether becoming, and Cuffey said, "As secretary I have a right to rebuke you," or something to that effect—the meets; adjourned to the Lord Denman on the next evening—I went about eight or a little before, accompanied by Gurney—Payne, Mullins, Brewster, Cuffey, Dowling, Allnut, Fay, Gurney, Lacey, Ritchie, Page, Ferdinando, and others in all about forty were present—I saw some new faces, and I believe tier were delegates, and there were one or two that I knew were not delegates—Lacey stood with others near a window, and he began to tell us about the people in the country—he said that the men of Birmingham and Manchester, and I think he said Liverpool, were up and doing, or would be doing that night—that he had been watched all day by the police, and that on coming out of the door a boy came up to him and told him that he had been watched by the police for two or three hours, and he said he had given them the double and reached the place in safety—I had never seen him before—I asked him his name, and he said Lacey—about half an hour afterwards Brewster distri-buted coloured wristbands, exactly such a one as this (produced) was given to me—Mullins was present, and I also think he distributed some—Brewster—said they were for the delegates to wear on their left wrists that their members might know them—about half an hour after the distribution, as far as my memory furnishes me, Fay came in and brought a person of the name of

Donaldson, a member of our locality, who had no right to be there—I believe Fay had not been there before on that evening—Donaldson not being a delegate, had no right to be present—he went by the name of Donaldson—he bad not been long seated before they called for a pint of porter—some of the ulterior Committee, I believe Cuffey and Payne, came in shortly after—I had not seen them before—before Fay came in there was a question asked where the Committee should retire to, as the room up stairs was occupied by singing—that was after the distribution of colours—there was a talk of the Committee going somewhere else, and Lacey said, "There is a neighbouring coffee-shop, kept by a person I know; I will go and see if we can have the room"—he left for that purpose—he came back directly, and said he had engaged the room—Payne, Brewster, Mullins, Cuffey, and Lacey then went—they were away half or three-quarters of an hour—Lacey did not return with them—I did not see him again that evening—they returned after Fay had come into the room—Mullins acted as chairman and spokesman—Cuffey said to him, "Now, Mr. Chairman, you had better give the instructions"—Mullins then said, "Gentlemen, as you are aware the Committee have retired and come to certain resolutions and decisions; they have requested me to give you the following instructions. Our friend Mr. Lacey has informed us that the men of Birmingham and Manchester are up and doing, or will be doing to-night, and we have no reason to doubt the correctness of his statement, therefore, Gentlemen, to-morrow night you must come out to fight, and strike the blow: it is necessary you should speak out honestly and boldly, for there must be no flinching in the matter"—Cuffey said, "My time is short, my men are waiting; I take the western division; you had better put it round the room one by one, and let them answer yes or no"—Mullins then asked the man on ray right, "Will you come out to fight?"—he said, "Yes"—he-appealed to me, and I said, "Yes"—he then went round and put the question to every delegate till he came to Ferdinando, who stood up and spoke, and gave some reason why he would not come out—he said, "No"—the companion delegate to Allnutt, whose name I do not know, also answered, "No"—he did not give any reason—those were the only two exceptions—at this time all those I have named were present except Lacey—Mullins then said, "We shall take up four positions: Clerkenwell-green; the Tower Hamlets; Broadway, Westminster; and the Seven Dials"—Brewster was to take Clerkenwell-green, Payne the Tower Hamlets, and Mullins and Bassett the Broadway and Seven Dials, but which each was to take of the two I cannot say—Mullins then said, "Gentlemen, every delegate must assemble the members of his locality armed at their localities at eight o'clock to-morrow night precisely"—some delegate asked how they were to get there with their pikes—Mullins said, "I can only say get them there the best way you can, and every delegate must be with his members at their respective positions at twenty minutes past nine to a second"—he then went on to say that the different localities that were divided into different districts were to meet each of the four leaders, who were to have charge of the four districts—Brewster was to have Clerkenwell; and the City, Cripplegate, and Finsbury localities were to meet Brewster at Clerkenwell-green—there were different districts assigned to the four positions—Mullins, I believe, proposed Ritchie to be the man to superintend and direct the four or six men for firing that I have spoken of before—that was carried—I think Mullins mentioned firing that evening, because there were some new delegates came in, that did not understand—they were to meet at the Orange Tree, at five o'clock the next evening—the number of firing-men amounted to forty-six altogether, and they were to meet Ritchie at the Orange Tree—a question was asked how they

would know Ritchie without a pass-word, and some delegate proposed the words "Frost and Mitchell," as a pass-word—Allnutt proposed the word, "Justice" instead—that was carried; and when each man went and opened the door at the Orange Tree, Ritchie was to ask him, "Who do you want? what do you want?" and the answer was to be the word "Justice," and by that Ritchie would know them—I was asked among the others how many firing-men I could bring, and I said I had spoken to two, one of those was included in the number forty-six—Gurney said, "Oh, nonsense, you can find six or eight, I can find more."—I was rather struck with his taking me up so soon and I said, "I know best"—I knew I can only speak to these two men—I did not mention their names—the others were asked the same question—the delegates had put the colours in their pockets I suppose, there might have been colours given to those who came in subsequently, but I did not see any—I received one that night—I kept it till I gave it up to the party I was in communication with—I showed it to a person in authority about two hours after I left the Lord Denman—I remember attending a meeting on 20th July last, at the Black Last or Jack, I am not certain which, in sow street in Lincoln's-inn-square—I do not know the name of the street—it is a house that lies rather in the corner of some street—I can hardly describe it—I do not think I have been in the neighbourhood before or since—when I attended on the 20th, there were fourteen people present, Payne, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, Dowling, a delegate from Greenwich, myself, Battice, another confederate, Allnutt, and one or two strangers—I do not know the name of the delegate from Greenwich—his name was mentioned, but it has escaped my memory, it was his first time of attendance—the meeting commenced about nine o'clock in the evening, or it might be a little later—it lasted until twelve, or ten minutes past—it was in a longish room, with a very high ceiling ornamented at both ends with a sort of canopy—it had the appear-ance of a club-room—that was the first meeting of delegates I attended—I was asked for credentials, and produced the leaf of a book which Bezer had given me—when he gave it me he made a statement—I gave the leaf to Payne, who was chairman—he compared it with his book, and then said, "That will do "—there was no writing on it—it appeared to match with what was left in the book—at that meeting a Committee of five was appointed, to draw up five plans of action; Fay, Brewster, Rose, Mullins, and Dowling—I attended a meeting on 23rd July at Dennis's coffee-house, Great St. Andrew-street, Seven Dials—Dowling, Brewster, Rose, and Mullins, were there, and Payne accompanied me there—there was on that day a meeting of the Committee before the meeting of the general body of delegates—some plans were produced—this (produced) is the very identical plan that Mullins produced—Dowling said he thought he should not be able to undertake the management of the Seven Dials—the Seven Dials is shown in this plan—I afterwards saw Mullins put this plan into his pocket-book, and put it into his pocket—before that it was handed to three or four of them—I noticed there was something spoken about barricades—these lines where the crosses are were pointed out as barricades—Brewster said that to buss barricades you must build them halfway down the street—this was matter of conversation among us—there was no decision come to—a map of London was produced—they each had papers in their hands, but I did not see what they were—this is the one that was discussed and talked about—after the meeting of the Committee the delegates were admitted—there were ten persons present—Payne took the chair—he made a statement previous to the delegates coming in.—(MR. BALLANTINE objected to this statement being

given it being made privately in the Committee, and not in the presence of the delegates. The COURT expressing a doubt of its admissibility, it teas not pursued.)—After the delegates came in, Mullins, who was vice-chairman, said he was sorry that the plans were not sufficiently matured for their inspection.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. I believe you went by the name of Johnson at these meetings? A. I did—that was the only name I went by, but there was a person that called me Robinson one evening at Cartwright's—I said, "Call me anything you like; it is all the same"—that was the only night I went by the name of Robinson; that is the only name I have ever gone by, except my own—I am thirty-three years of age—I do not remember going by any other name; I cannot at this moment say positively—I never went by any name but Johnson among the Chartists—I have gone by the name of the Welch Novice, but not by any other surname—I joined this Association soon after April—I did not take notes of the meetings at Cartwright's locality—I made notes of the meeting of 20th July, about two days after, in this book—it did not exceed two days—I did not take those notes by the desire of anybody; I took them of my own accord—I did not show them to anybody after I had taken them; I am certain about that—I do not think I took notes of the meeting on 23rd; I cannot remember—I have not destroyed any of the notes I made—I know these notes were taken either the next day after the meeting or the day after—these are the only notes I took (handing them to the Counsel)—all I put down on July 23rd was the names of the persons present—what I have stated is partly from recollection and partly from the book—what is down I put down, and I have remembered the rest—I did not put it all down at the same time—the memorandum of 23rd July was all put down at the same time, and with the same pen—sometimes I wrote it at different periods of the same day—I may have put down a part on 23rd, and forgotten a part, and put that down next day—that was not the case on each of the occasions; it may have happened on other occasions—I communicated to the police from time to time what was going on—I never showed them my notes; they never asked me—I never showed my notes till I went before some of the authorities—I think that was before the prisoners were taken—I do not remember showing my notes to any one as early as 5th Aug.; I will not swear I did not—I have never altered them since they have been shown to the authorities; I forget when they were shown to the authorities—by the authorities I do not mean the Magistrate, but another party; I am not bound to state his name—I did not show that person my notes—I joined this Asso ciation for the purpose of gaining information and giving information to the authorities—I am a carpenter—I have always had plenty of work to do—I make about 27s. a week—I have a wife and family, and have a little property coming in—I was not driven by poverty to join these people; I did it from a desire to communicate their proceedings—I did not communicate that desire to anybody before I joined them—I entered of my own accord—I was not desirous of having the name of "spy," but I was determined to acquaint the authorities with what was going on—I went in for that purpose; not to betray them, but to communicate what was going on—I do not like the word "betray" any more than I do the word "spy"—I considered that there were parties there that were not scrupulous of what they would do—I did it for the public benefit, and nothing else—I did it for the good of my country—I did not expect to get anything by it; I was not in a position to be necessitated—I have received 1l. a week since I have been obliged to be kept out of the way from personal danger—there is nothing else to come; I do not expect a farthing—it is not as good as carpentering—I have been a carpenter

for the last eleven years—before that I was a bed-pillar carver—I have been connected with the turf, and been rather a sporting man, as a pedestrian—it was then I was called the Welch Novice—I am a descendant of Welchmen—I ran a race; I did not lose it or win it—I did not get persons to back me—I went out for my own amusement to the place, and I was asked to run to amuse the party; it was merely for a draw to a public-house—that was not the only sporting matter in which I have been concerned—it was announced in the paper by a party who I knew nothing of, that there was to be a celebrated runner—I went there out of curiosity; it was only done to draw custom to the house—I professed then to be a bit of a runner, and I profess to be so now—I was not a celebrated runner—I was also at Wimbledon once for the same purpose—the other was at Hounslow—I have also run at Croydon, still as the Welch Novice—that was merely for a day's amusement, and for which I was well remunerated—I believe those are all the sporting matters in which I have been engaged—I know what thimble-rig means—I was never in that line; I swear that—I was never with a thimble-rig table at races; I have looked on at a table—I do not exactly know what a decoy is—I have played at a table—I neither won nor lost—I was paid so much a day for playing at the table; it was not at a thimble-rig table, but a marquee-table, where they play with balls—I expected you would ask me about this, and I am willing to state everything, and all I know of the affair—that was the only time I was ever at such a place—I received 30s., and it was on account of my master that I went there—it was to stand at the table, take the money, and pretend to bet—I was young, and quite ignorant of the nature of these proceedings—it was just before I was out of my time; I was nearly twenty-one—I went more for a holiday—my master had a relation named Durdon, and my master's brother was in the habit of attending the races with Durdon, and my master said to me, "Tom, how would you like a holiday?"—I said, "Very well, master"—he said, "Well, I can get you one if you like to go, you must not let the old man know anything of it; if you like to go with Durdon to the races, you can, and you shall be paid 30s. for your time, and your expenses," and with that I went with my master's brother, who was a door-keeper; and that was the only time in my life that I ever did anything of the sort—I knew that I was not in reality betting—I did not consider myself a cheat—of course I was pretending to bet, in order to deceive people—I do not deny that—I never swindled persons—I never had a farthing—I do not know who did—I do not know whether there was any money won or lost—I swear that—I do not think I was in there the whole three days—it was a three day's race—it was at Ascot races—I kept running in and out of the marquee to see the races more than to stop there, and there was a great disturbance with one of the parties about my going out—I was never at any other rovlette-table than that—I never played at a thimble-rig- table, and never associated with those sort of men—I know Richard Pennell—I never told him that I had walked a match against Townsend, the pedertrian, and sold the parties who backed me, because I could get more money on the other side—I never walked for any money, I am certain of that, merely to draw custom to the house—I was once a witness at this Court, about eight years ago, in the case of a party for picking a gentleman's pocket.—I happened to see it—I never said to any one on that occasion, that I Was frightened about being asked about my thimble-rigging—my father is dead—I have been in the employment of my brother-in-law, Mr. Smith—I have only been engaged a week for another party within the last eleven years—Smith keeps many men—I do not think those men knew that 1 was at all connected with this matter—I never persuaded a man to join it—they are quite capable

of joining it without my persuasion—James Paris is Mr. Smith's foreman—I never told him that I was employed by thimble-rig men, nor anything of the kind, nor that I was employed by the police against the thieves—I never said to him that I had been a witness at the Old Bailey, and was afraid the Counsel would question me about having communication with a thimble-rig man, and I would never appear again—I have occasionally talked to Paris about religions natters—I never expressed my entire unbelief in a God, or in the Scriptures, or in our Saviour, nor anything of the kind; I always have believed, and do believe now—I told Paris that it was likely he would hear something remarkable—I do not think I told him I expected there would be a rising—he has not taxed me directly with being a spy—he has said something like it—I thought that he threw out hints, but I took no further notice of it—I once got about 1lb. of lead from Mr. Smith, my brother-in-law—that was for the purpose of casting bullets for Gurney our warden—he had asked me on several occasions for bullets—he was casting them himself, and made cartridges himself—I got the lead because he wanted to get as many made as possible for him to take care of for the day of rising—I cast the bullets at my own house—one of my boys, about ten years old, was present—he did not know what purpose I had the bullets for—he asked what I was doing them for, and, of course, I made him no answer—I took care of the bullets after I had cast them, and gave them to Gurney—I think those were the only bullets I cast—I received 4s. from our locality for the purpose of buying cartridge-paper and powder, and Gurney had received 5s. 8d. for that purpose on a previous occasion—he did not employ me to get that—the 4s. worth is all that I have bought—I am not aware that I had any nickname among my fellow-shopmen—I do not remember that I was called "Lying Tom"—I should say it was not likely—I never heard it—I never had it put to my face—if they did call me so, it was unknown to me—this is the first I have heard of it—if they had said such a thing to my face I should have resented it, and that they knew well enough—a person named Thomas Osborne worked for Smith—I never told him that there was to be a Chartist rising, and never urged him to join me; or others of the men in his presence—I do not remember doing such a thing—I will not swear I have not—I may have done it and forgotten it—I cannot remember pointing out to Osborne a man who would make him a pike—I remember being at a meeting at Birdcage-walk, and a person named Hook was there, and there was a person there who was a blacksmith and I. think I did speak about such a thing then—I think I have some recollection of pointing out to Osborne a man that would make him a pike—I believe I did—I do not know what the pike was to be for—I will explain how it was—there was a meeting at Birdcage walk one Sunday morning, and Osborne came up to look on out of curiosity, and he entered into conversation about Pennell having slandered his character, and what a disturbance Pennell bad caused in the Carpenter's Society—we fell into conversation on Chartism, and Hook spoke to this blacksmith to make a pike for him, and I believe I did mention, "If you want such a thing there is a blacksmith can make it"—that was bow it took place—I think it was to Osborne I said this, but I am not certain—I do not know whether he meant to have one, or if he had one what he would do with it—I had no idea.

COURT. Q. What made you imagine that Osborne wanted one? A. Why the conversation came up about one thing or another, and Osborne began his joking and talking about his being a Chartist, or something of that sort, and I dare say I did say that—I do not deny it.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do you know Alfred Carr? A. I do—I never old him if I could get a chance in a crowd I would rip the police's

b----guts up with a chisel, nothing of the kind—Carr was in my brother-in-law's service about six years ago—I believe my father was alive at that time—Carr caused great disturbance in our house through his conduct my father and I have had one or two quarrels; I never struck him, I pushed him—he came and struck me a violent blow, and I was so hurt in my feelings that I of course turned round and put my hand on his collar and struggled with him to kepp him away from me—I never pushed him down—I did not say to him, "You old b----, I will murder you"—no such words ever cars out of my lips—I struggled with him—my brother-in-law came and separated us—my father was about sixty-two or sixty-three at that time—he was a strong, able-bodied man—he died about two years and a half after that—I had an uncle; I had had quarrels with him, I have been bound over to keep the peace towards him—I may have spoken to Pennell about my father—I never told him that I hoped my father's soul was in hell, nor anything of lit kind—I do not think I have ever spoken to Pennell about the Government—he is a man that is well known, he has caused a great deal of disturbance in the shop from time to time—he is not in the shop now—my brother-in-law discharged him—I never told Pennell that the Government was a weak and b----y Government, and I would send Lord John Russell and Sir George Grey to the devil in a short time—I never said anything of that kind to him about a fortnight before 10th April—I do not think I saw him anything near that time—I do not believe I have seen him above twice for this six or seven months—he has been discharged a long time—the only time I can remember was, meeting him one night in Pitfield-street, as I was going home—I swear I did not meet him about ten minutes past six one morning, about a for night before 10th April—I do not believe I did, I cannot swear it—I did not stop him, and ask him if he was a member of the Chartists—I do not believe I ever asked him such a question; if I did, it was while he was in mv brother-in-law's service, not since—he never asked me to propose him as a member, nor did I tell him that delegates would be chosen in about a fortnight, to agitate the country—I never told him that I should get from 2l. to 3l. a week, which would be far better than working at Smith's—I never asked him to go to Cartwright's—he did not say that the Chartists would never get the Charter in the way they were going on—I did not say to him, "Look at the Queen, with her hundreds of thousands a year, spending in waste and idleness, while we are obliged to work from morning to night to get a mouthful of bread"—I never spoke to him about the Queen—I may have done so when we were at work, six or seven years ago—I do not believe I ever said such a thing—I never said I would blow her and the b----y foreigner to hell—I never used such words to any person whatever, nor any expressions of that kind—I never asked him to call at my bouse on the Sunday morning, and I would show him materials sufficient to blow London to hell in half an hour—I never saw him to ask him such a question—I do not remember showing him any printed bill—I know James Bennett, a shoemaker, living at Leonard-square, Shoreditch—I do not think I saw him two or three days or a week before 10th April; I might, it is very likely I did; I cannot say whether it was two or three days, it might have been a fortnight before—he was in the habit of mending shoes for me and my children, and very likely I may have seen him about: job to do to my shoes—I do not remember speaking to him about 10th April—I was not intimate with him, and never knew he was a Chartist until 10th April—all I knew of him was, that he used to mend my shoes and my children's—I do not think I asked him what he intended to do on 10th April—I cannot swear I did not—I do not think he told me he was going to Kennington

Common—I do not believe I asked him if he intended to go armed—I will not swear I did not—I do not remember his replying, "Certainly not"—I cannot swear he did not—my belief is, that no such conversation at all passed—I think I saw him here on Saturday—I swear I did not say to him, "You are a b----y fool if you do not, as I shall go armed"—I am quite certain of that—I swear that no words of the kind passed—to the best of my belief, I never had a word with the man about going armed—I believe I had said to him, that I had been making hand-grenades that would go halfway through an inch board; that was one night, coming from a meeting in Holborn—I cannot remember what night it was—it was not since these meetings have taken place—it was not so recently as Aug.—it might have been between May and June, but I do not know; you confuse me rather in going from one thing to another; I will answer any question as far as my memory will enable me—I do not think it was before 10th April; I cannot say it was not, I do not know when it was—I had not been making hand-grenades—it came up in conversation between Watson and him—Watson had a brass-barrelled short gun with him, and it came up in conversation about grenades, and the ink-bottles, and such like; and I remember speaking to him about it, but 1 never had such a thing, or made such a thing—I said so for talking sake—I do not often indulge myself in that way—he was telling me many things that I considered were stupid and untrue, and I thought I would do the same—it was merely pastime—I did not tell him how they were made, he knew that—I believe I did say how I made them; it was all a lie—I was never called "Lying Tom" to my face—I never made a hand-grenade in my life—I told Bennett that I made them by putting powder into a small ink-bottle, and putting a sort of fizgig gap to it—I never filled bottles with stout nails, and I do not think I ever said so—I am sure I did not—I did not say that anything was to be done with these hand-grenades—I dare say we were all busy talking about their being thrown among the police, I think it was so—I dare say I said to Bennett that a blacking-bottle was as good as anything, half-filled with powder, and well mixed with stout nails—there were many things said by us all in the course of conversation—I do not think I said that by lighting the fusee, and throwing it among the police, it would break the b----'s legs—I went to Kennington-common on 10th April—it was the first meeting I was ever at in my life—I did not go armed, I swear that—I had nothing with me whatever—I do not remember meeting Bennett in Chiswell-street, about a week after the conversation I have referred to—I do not remember meeting him at all in Chiswell-street, or meeting him at all shortly after that conversation—I never told him that I had got ten men, and that with four or five more I could easily take the Artillery-ground—I never told him any such thing—I never told him that I had prepared a plan, or said anything to him about a plan or map, nothing of the kind; nor that my men knew how to spike the artillery—I have seen Bennett at Cartwright's—I do not know a person named John Westmoreland, a master-lor, of 75, Watling-street—I do not know Thomas Antill—(Antill was here called in)—I know that man well, but I do not know his name—he is not a member of our locality—I do not remember asking him whether he had seen the Northern Star; I will not swear I did not—I do not recollect saying to him that O'Connor was a b——coward, for he recommended peaceable means, and that the National Assembly should be postponed—I will not swear I did not; I might have said it, I do not think I did—I do not remember Antill asking me what I meant by that, nor do I remember asking him whether he was prepared—I never recognized him as a member, and

never knew his name—I have seen him in and out of Cartwright's, and that is all—I did not tell him to procure arms as soon as possible, and if all working men were prepared as I was they would soon upset the b----Government—I swear no such words were ever uttered by me to him—I never spoke to him above twice—I never said anything to him about the b----Government—I never told him, if he wanted gunpowder, I would supply him with it; nor did he say he was a peaceable and quiet man, and would have nothing to do with it—I never had any such conversation with him—he was turned out of one of our meetings at Cartwright's locality—the first time I ever spoke to him was when he impudently came into the secret meeting there, and he said, "Why am I not allowed to be here? I have a much right as that man," pointing to another individual; and there was great confusion at the time, and astonishment at his impudence, in wanting to she there, without being a member of the locality—he came into the secret meeting—anybody could come in, if they liked to have the impudence to come, through Cartwright's back place—he was a man that had impudence enough to come, and he was turned out by force; in fact, it was with some difficulty they got him down stairs—that was not in April—if you will lend me my book I will give you the date—I think I can refer to the very meeting (referring to his book); it was on Sunday afternoon, 30th July—I swear 1 had no such conversation with him in April as you have referred to—I do not know George Thurston by name—there are many persons whose faces I know, but not their names—I do not know this, (looking at a plan); I never saw it before, it is not my drawing—I do not know Westmoreland—I never gave such a thing as this to anybody, and never drew a thing like it—I have drawn plans, to ascertain what the plans were which I heard of among the different members of the locality—I heard that there was a secret meeting sitting, and that there was a plan they were going to operate upon, and I drew out a plan for the purpose of ascertaining whether there was plan of the kind—I believe that was about June or July—I drew a plan of one circle—I had heard that there were to be four or five mock meetings and sham demonstrations at Bishop Bonner's-fields; and, hearing of that, and also that there was to be an assassination of the police in the night, I was determined to try and find out what this secret meeting was, and what plan it was they had got in operation—that was why I drew the plan—I showed it to person named Mayne, and tore it up by his direction—he said, "I would not have you get yourself into danger, you had better tear it up"—he is a person who is frequently at Cartwright's—it was not before the affair in Bishop Bonner's-fields that I showed it him; that was the only one, and that I showed to three or four at Cartwright's, on purpose to ascertain what was going on—I do not remember saying to anybody that I should want him, and that he must bring something with him—I had a pair of pistols—I did have them on 13th Aug.—I exchanged them for another pair in Holborn, or the Strand, and paid 2s. 6d., I forget when—(George Thurslon was here called in)—I do not know that man by name, I know him by sight—I have no recollection of asking him if he was a Chartist—I will not swear I did not—I do not think I ever offered to sell him a pair of pistols for 6s.—I will not swear I did not—I swear I did not offer to do so on 13th Aug.—I do not believe I offered to do so some time in Aug.—I will not swear I did not—I swear not offer them to him after 13th Aug., because I think I had not had then for two months before that time—I did not offer that if he would buy the pistols, I would give him half-a-pound of powder into the bargain—I never offered him any powder, or any one; and never gave or offered any one any

powder, except Gurney—I was never a member of the Wat Tyler Club—I have heard of it, but do not know where it exists—I never attended any of their meetings—I do not know where it is held—I know a public-house at Hoxton—I am not a member of any club held there—I have attended meetings there—it is a beer-shop—I do not know the sign—I have only attended one meeting there that I remember—it was of Chartists—I do not know when it was—it was some time ago—I believe it was after April—I cannot say whether it was May or June—I do not know Henry Green, a working-man—I recollect the meeting at Bonner's-fields—I cannot say whether it was on that day that I attended the meeting at the public-house at Hoxton—I have attended perhaps two or three meetings at Bonner's-fields—I cannot say whether I attended one on Sunday, 23rd April—I know Dennis Dwaine by being at Cartwright's—I never was intimate with him—I do not think I said of him that he was a b----Government spy—I do not think I ever uttered such words, I cannot swear I did not—I do not believe I ever said he was a b----Government spy, a milk-and-water moral-force b----, and ought to be kicked out—the man gave me offence—I do not believe I ever used such words of him—I will not swear anything of the kind, I believe I did not—I was not likely to use such words—my memory is Dot sufficient, I may forget it—it may have come out of my mouth, but it is not likely, I do not think it was uttered by me—there were extraordinary characters at Cartwright's—it is a complete den of infamy, and the characters there would surprise any moral man—I noticed them with astonishment, from my being a moral man—(Westmoreland was here called in)—I knew that man in that locality—I did not give him this plan—I have talked to him about a plan—I showed him the plan which I tore up—it was not the same size and shape as this—it was a large plan—I swear I did not sketch this very plan in Westmoreland's presence—I never saw it till you produced it—I have not seen a plan about the same size and shape—I do not know what it means, I have no idea—it is done with black lead pencil—I have seen nothing like it—I can hardly recollect now what mine was a plan of—it was a circle with a ring in it—nothing was in the ring—it was not filled up at all, only some dots which were to represent people standing in the circle—I do not know what points they were to stand at, it was merely a rough thing sketched by myself, just the idea which presented itself to my mind, because I heard they had got plans and were going to have meetings, and I drew the plan just to ascertain what their plans were—mine was only a piece of paper just to see if there were any plans in preparation—the dots in the centre were not to represent Chartists particularly, or policemen, they were merely people in a circle—it was for no other purpose—I did not fill up the whole circle with dots, only just a few—there was nothing written on it—lean hardly recollect whether any lines, except the circular line, were drawn on it—it was torn up—I have given as far as I am able about it—I do not remember any lines, my memory is so bad—I did not show Westmoreland the large plan and take a pencil and sketch this small one from it—I do not remember seeing any lines at all on my large plan, there were no lines at all—I know John Collins—he is a very noisy and desperate character in the locality—he does not want much encouragement to go on—I have not informed against him—I did not tap him on the shoulder one day and tell him there was a grand meeting, and no one was to attend but those prepared to fight for their rights—I do not remember saying to him in my life, "Are you coming up stairs to-night? there is a grand meeting, and no one is to come but those prepared to fight

for their rights"—I will not swear such words were not uttered by me—I do not recollect saying to him, "Are you prepared," or his answering, "I do not know what you mean, Mr. Johnson"—I might have said such words—I swear I never said to him, "I have a very handsome dagger, which I will make you a present of, to keep against you want it"—I am sure of thatI never had a dagger, and never said I had one—I never said, "If you and others will join me, I will lead you, and show you the way to over throw the b----Government"—I saw him on 16th Aug. outside Cartwright's—I did not see him inside—I do not know whether he was drinking a cup of tea—he was standing on the pavement—I did not say to him, "Don't be in a burry to go away from here to-night"—I swear that—he did go away—I did not ask him to stop—he did not say, "I am in no more hurry to-night than any other night"—I said, "Is there to be a meeting to-night up stairs? there are a great many strangers round," and he said, "No, I do not think there is"—I of course knew that at eight o'clock the members of the locality were to be assembled—I merely asked Collins that out of curiosity, on the spur of the moment—I did not want to know—I did not ask anybody else—I may know a person named George Medlock—(he teas here called in)—I knot his face—I may have seen him at Cartwright's on Monday, 14th Aug.; I cannot recollect—I have no recollection of saying to him, "Ain't you going up stairs?" nor of his replying, "No, I believe the room is engaged by the cigar-makers for a trade meeting"—such a thing might have passed—I forget whether the room was engaged for such a purpose on 14th Aug.—I do not think I went up, saying to Medlock, "I will soon have them out"—I do not recollect seeing or speaking to the man at all that night—I will not swear I did not say so—I do not recollect returning and saying, "I will serve out those moral force b----rs; there is Gill and another moral force b—"—I do not think such words were ever uttered by me to that chap—I will not swear I did not say so—I may have said it, and forgotten it—I know Gill—I was at Cartwright's on the 14th; Fay and I went there together—our business was when we left the Orange Tree meeting to make arrangements for the men for firing, and we went into Cartwright's back-place—Gill, Donaldson, Carter, and two or three others were there, and I was ties accused of being a spy—Carter asked me how it was that I went by the name of Johnson, and not by my right name, Powell—Gill said, "I have looked at the books, and I don't see either the name of Johnson, Robinson, Powell; it is very strange; you should clear this matter up"—there was some talk between us, and it was arranged that Fay and Donaldson should inqnire into where I lived, and what was my right name, and be satisfied upon it—I believe that was all that transpired that evening, and I went home shortly after—I do not know who it was that charged me with being a spy—I did not admit it—I said, "If you have any reason to doubt that I am not what I am, go and make inquiry at my place of work; my real name is Powell, but I have gone by the name of Johnson, so that my brother-in-law and friends should not know that I have entered the Chartists at all"—I do not know Henry Green by sight; I know him by name—I know Bryant—I was standing outside Cartwright's early on Wednesday evening, 16th Aug.—I do not know that Bryant saw me there, and asked what was the matter—I never saw Bryant there at all that night, to my recollection; I am sure I did not—I did not say to him, "Don't take any notice of me; I think it is a botched job by these milk and water b----s"—I do not recollect savin; such words—I will not swear I did not—I never saw Briant there that

evening—I do not remember saying to anybody, "We expect to have a turn out to-night," or saying that a signal rocket was to be fired between nine and ten o'clock, and the people were to be turned out—I do not believe I mentioned such a thing as the word rocket, or anything that night, for I was very much alarmed for my own safety—I will not swear I did not say so—I do not think I said, "These bl—st—d milk and water b----s must have sold the job, and I think the delegates must have been nailed in Orange-street"—I do not think I uttered any such words to any living being, because I was desirons of screening my person from being seen as much as possible—it is not likely I should say so—I do not remember it—I will not swear I did not—I may have said it, and forgotten it—I know a man named Briant," who keeps a coffee-house—I think I walked up Chiswell-street and into Finsbury-stjuare on the night of 16th Aug., between ten and eleven, with a person, and 1 believe it was the man I spoke to on the subject of firing—I do not know Ms name—I showed him sixty-eight ball-cartridges—I did not say to him that I bad 200 fire-balls to throw into people's houses—I believe I produced. a small tin box from my pocket—I am not quite sure—there were not some small paper parcels in it—they were percussion caps—I have them at home now—I did not tell him they were band-grenades, and that I had 200 more of them—I pulled out a pistol, and showed it him—I had a sword in my coat-pocket, at the side—I showed him the handle of it—I did not pull it out—I might have said, "You see I am well prepared for them; are you?"—I do not believe I did—he wanted to have them from me, to load them—I had this pistol and sword by me for the purposes of safety, and the cartridges too—I put the cartridges into my pocket, so that nobody should see them or get hold of them, and the sword I carried about with me for my own-safety, to defend myself if I was attacked, because I suspected I was found out—I carried the pistol in my pocket—it was not loaded—I carried that to take care of it—I showed them to this man merely for pastime, nothing else—I did not know that the men were then at tie Orange Tree—I knew that they were betrayed—this man was to have been at the Orange Tree for firing, but he would not go—that bad been arranged on the night previous—I did not want him to go—I had given him the orders the night previous to go—I knew that the men were taken when I was with him—I know Daniel Byrne—(he was here called in)—I suppose he is a working man—I have heard that he is something in the coach way—I do not think I ever showed him any pistols; I did not show fan any on 10th April—I do not think he has ever seen any pistols belonging to me—I do not believe I ever showed him any pistols; I will not swear I did not—I will swear I did not do so on 10th April, before going to the Ken-nington-common meeting, or a weapon of any kind—I do not believe I did at any time; I will not swear I did not—I did not generally carry cartridges about me—I do not think I ever did, unless I carried them to give to Gurney—they were cartridges made by Gurney, and given to me to fill with powder—they were the only cartridges I ever had in my possession—I will swear I. never said to Daniel Byrne, and to others in his hearing, that I wished the people would assassinate the police and fire the houses; I do not remember such words being used—I will swear I never said any such thing to him—I do not believe I said it to anybody; I will not swear I did not—I do not think I ever said that I wished the people would assassinate the police—I swear I have not said it a dozen times, or half a dozen—I do not believe I have said it three times—I might have said it, but I do not think I did—I

was always rather as a friend to the police, and I believe that was generally known—it is possible I might have said it to Byrne, but I feel quite sure I never did; it was not likely I should—I was at a meeting at the Milton-street Theatre—I did not, some time before that, show Byrne a pair of pistols—I never showed him a pair of pistols in my life; I swear that, nor yet one pistol I think; I will not swear I did not—I never said to him that I wished to see all the police assassinated, and to have some good fires in London—I never said any such words in my life, nor did I say, showing the pistols, "These are the things that will do for them;" nothing of the kind—I do not believe such words, or that any conversation passed with him or in his presence; I will not swear it did not—I know a man named Carter—I do not remember saying to him that I should want four desperate men, who would do any kind of work; yes, I think I did; it was at the meeting in the back-room, at Cartwright's, on the Monday night, if that was the time I was charged with being a spy—I will not swear it, but I think I did—that was the order I had given to me at the Orange Tree meeting, to speak on the subject of firing—I think I did say it—Carter may have said, "You won't have me"—I do not believe he did; I never asked him—it was a sort of order given to me, and I was obliged to tell those who were assembled in the room—Fay was present—it was spoken privately among ourselves, among the council—I do not remember showing Carter a plan of London; I will not swear I did not—if I showed him any plan it was that plan of the circle and the small circle in the middle—I never showed him a plan of London; I might have showed him that small plan for the purpose of ascertaining who the parties were that were drawing up some plans—I cannot recollect when I showed it him—it was not on 16th Aug., or 15th, or 14th—I do not think it was any time in Aug.—I do not know a person named Goodfellow, a tailor—I did not meet a young man on 14th Aug., and tell him that I was going to Australia and wanted an outfit—(Goodfellow was here called in)—I never saw that man before in my life—I did not tell him that I was going to Australia; that I wanted an outfit, and that he was to come to the Orange Tree on Wednesday, 16th; nor did I give him a half-crown as earnest money; nothing of the kind occurred—I never had any such conversation with anybody—(a small piece of wood, with a nail in it, was here shown to the witness) I have seen such a thing as this, of my own making—I expected this would be produced—I made one like it, and lent it to a person named Mayne—this appears to be the same—I will explain how it was—at a meeting at Cartwright's Brewster showed two articles of this description, and I suspecting that some such articles were being made at Cartwright's, made one—those that Brewster produced were twice as large as this—I asked who made them, and Brewster told me he made them himself, and told me they were made for the purpose of crippling the cavalry—I asked him to show me the action of then—he showed me the action by throwing them on the floor—there is apiece of lead in them, which, if thrown on the ground, will always cause the point to be presented upwards—I have a similar thing in my pocket, which I wish particularly to produce (producing it)—this was lent by me to Mayne, and he never returned it—I made this last one within the last two months, since the other has been kept away and not returned to me—it is made on a similar plan, expecting that this would be produced, and it is produced—I swear positively those are the only two I made—I made them in order to ascertain whether they were making such things at Cartwright's—I showed it to several persons at Cartwright's, and have thrown it on the ground and on the table.

COURT. Q. How could your exhibiting that at Cartwright's enable you to discover whether they were making them or not? A. Because I expected there would be some produced like that.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You did it for a trap then? A. I did it to detect tie parties, if I possibly could, who were making these sort of things, to find out who they were—I did it knowing the solemn position I placed myself in—I do not think I ever said, "These are the things to throw among the troops of the b----Government"—I do not think the word b----was used at all—I do not believe I said "the troops of the Government," or "the mops of the Queen"—I might have said, "They would do to throw among tie troops," I do not say I did say so—I said that I had a large quantity at home—that was false—I wish to speak the truth now, and confess what I have done—I dare say I told several falsehoods in the course of these proceedings—Gurney is in custody; I went to him in his cell, one of the turnkeys let me in—I believe I said to Gurney, that if he would inform it would be better for his wife and children—I believe I did say those words—I am not exactly positive, I am rather confused with so many questions—I cannot say whether any policemen were waiting outside—there were lots of police-nea in the yard—I did not, as I came out of Gurney's cell, say to a police-P nan, "It is no go," or "It won't do"—nothing of the kind—I never spoke to say policeman coming out—I do not believe I said so to the turnkey or to anybody—I believe I said to Gurney that he, his wife, and family would all be made comfortable for their lives if he would inform, and I told him to speak the truth, all he knew about it—I had no authority whatever for saying that—it was untrue—it was done for him to state all he knew, and for him to tell me what he knew of it—I did not mean to get all I could out of him, and then tell it—I did not tell all that he said to me—I wanted him to tell all he knew about it, because I thought he would be telling the truth and getting himself out of a scrape—I cannot tell what made me think so—I was not sent in—I was not requested to go—the turnkey let me in—I told him what it was for; that I thought he would confess, and tell all about it—I do not think that 1 said when I came out that it was no go, but I will not swear—it—Gurney was put into a separate cell for me to speak to him—he was by himself when I saw him.

Q. Have you been in England all your life? A. Except about three months, about thirteen years ago—I went over with a friend, named Rodder, to New York, and stayed there I think about a month—I was certainly not away four months altogether—my father was alive at that time—I did not know that he had any money at the Savings' Bank—there was no charge against me about that before I went to America—I was married at that time—I did not take my wife—I had but one child—I only let two or three persons know that I was going—my father never made any complaint of some money having been taken out of the Savings' Bank—there was money of my own, which I drew out of the Funds—it was in my own name, and I used my own name to get it out—I signed nobody else's name—it was money that had been given me by my father, and put into the Stock-broker's hands in my name—I went to America a few days after I drew the money out—my father was very cross that I left my wife—when I came back I gave what money I had into my father's hands to take care of—I got back every farthing of it from him—his name was Howell Powell.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You say this was about thirteen years ago? A. I think so—I think I had been married about eighteen months at that

time—there had been some family differences, and it prayed upon my spirits.—I went wholly and solely to recruit my health—at the time I met Collins at Cartwright's, on the evening of the 16th, I knew that the parties at the Orange Tree had been apprehended—the people were talking about it all over the neighbourhood—I have not seen Carter here to-day—he did live in Moneyer-street—I have not seen Gill here—he is a shoemaker—I do not consider him a moral force Chartist—Fay was present when I said I should want four men or more to fire the town—Carter lived at 32, Moneyer-street East-road, Hoxton; and Donaldson lodged with him—Carter is a Chartist-. Owen Jones was present at that time; he is a tailor, and lives at 5, Hoare-lane—I cannot remember whether it was on 23rd April that I pointed out to Osborne a man who would make a pike—it was most likely that there was a meeting on 23rd April at Birdcage-walk, but I cannot remember.

JEMIMA HEATH . My husband keeps a coffee-shop in Great Suffolk-street, Blackfriars-road. I know Mr. Lacey—I remember the police searching my house—I will not be certain whether Lacey was there the day before that—he has frequently called—he did not come for anything particular—some persons came with him, I do not know how many—they had four cups of coffee—they went up stairs into the public coffee-room—it was about eight o'clock in the evening—they stayed about a quarter or half an hour, tin then left—I do not think Lacey left with them, but I will not be positive—I saw him sitting down in the room down stairs—I cannot say how long is stayed after the others left—it might be half an hour, or longer—I cannot say whether this was on the day before my house was searched—it might be two or three days before—I really do not know—it was on a Tuesday, I believe—Lacey did not come to our house on the following morning that I know of—I did not give him some pistols out of a cupboard in my house that day—I never had any pistols in my house—I did not put them into a basket for him—there were three pistols in the house, but Mr. Lacey never had any—they were my sister-in-law's—her name is Simmons—I took them to her a long-time ago, before Lacey and his party came—I do not know whether Lacey came on the Wednesday or not—he was so frequently in the habit of coming, that I did not take notice—there were not three powder-flasks there—there was only one, and that is there now—I dare say the policemen saw it when they searched the house—it is an old one belonging to my sister-in-law—the lot was not sold for 10s. 6d.—I told several persons that she wanted to sell them, as they were no good to her, but she did not sell them—I to three or four constables' staves at my house—a young man who lodged with me had them to paint for a gentleman named Alsop two or three months ago—he left them there, and they are there now—they were for special constables—my sister-in-law lives in Church-street, Bermondsey—she is a widow—her husband has been dead above two years.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. What was her husband? A. He once had belonged to a ship, and then worked at the London Docks as a lumper—he bought the pistols when he was on board ship, and that was how my sister-in-law became possessed of them—I know she has had them for ten or twelve years.

Nicholas Pearce, superintendent of police, and James Dowsitt, gate the same evidence as in Dowling's case (see pages 747—8.)

JOSEPH THOMPSON (being re-examined, produced the articles found by him at Ritchie's, as in page 748.)

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. I believe you searched Cuffeys

garret? A. Yes—I have not produced all I found there—I have some papers, but they are quite irrelevant—they are here somewhere—I have not judged of their relevancy—I have not kept them back—the landlord of Ritchie's room came in while I was searching it—it was the front kitchen—I believe he did not occupy any other part of the premises—the landlady is here—somebody showed us the room, and the landlord came down afterwards—I think it was about half-past six o'clock in the evening of the 16th that I searched, after he had been apprehended, at the Orange Tree—I did not know Powell at that time—I knew nothing of him—the landlord took up a bottle that was there—it was not on a little shelf near the powder-flask—I believe it was on the sideboard, but I will not be positive—it was where all the things were, standing on a shelf by the cupboard—I found that the first time I searched—I am sure of that—I went again next morning, and found some tow and the little band that has been produced—it laid among some rags—I am sure I did not find the bottle the next day.

MR. CLARKSON. Q. The bottle contained the powder, and that you brought away when you first went? A. Yes.

COURT. Q. What did you find next morning? A. That band, a piece of paper and one of these small books, apparently the same that the cartridges are made of—it is not cut—I found the tri-coloured band against the window where he slept, amongst some old rags and a filthy flannel shirt covered with termin—I looked at it over night, but next morning 1 examined it more minutely—it was a very dirty, miserable place.

Samuel Bohlin, Anthony Rutt, William Cockerill, Samuel Harris, Robert Smith, Henry Baker, John Collins, Thomas Rogers, and Edward Kendall, repeated the evidence given by than on Bowling's trial. (See pages 748, 9.)

THOMAS SLAYMAKER (policeman, L 124.) I went to the Angel, in Webber-street, with the superintendent, and the rest of the police—I searched George Cox, and found this card in his coat-pocket—(this certified the entrance of George Cox as a member of the National Charter Association on 3rd April, 1848.)

JOHN HAYNES (police-inspector), gate the same evidence as in page 749, and produced the books and papers found at Lacey"s, from which several extracts we read referring to the bye-laws and regulations of the Wallace Brigade branch of the Chartist Association; also a bill printed by Austin, of Strutton Ground, announcing a Sunday evening lecture at the Wallace Brigade branch, held at the Charter Coffee-house, Strutton Ground; with blanks for the name of toe lecturer, and the subject of the lecture; some ladies' visiting-cards cut in halves and sealed—a list of candidates for the Central Election Committee among were the names of Dr. M'Douall, Ernest Jones, Samuel Kydd, Feargus O'Connor, Vernon, Sharpe, Shaw, Lacey, Bassett, Fussell, Cuffey, Burn, Donaldson, Reynolds, and others—a printed paper, containing resolutions passed in favour of the Charter at a meeting at Southampton on 14th March, 1848, the Mayor in the chair—and a letter addressed to Lacey from the chartists of Lower Worley, complaining of the arrangements made for the. defence of the Yorkshire prisoners, who they were informed were to be defended by Mr. Roberts for £250, and recommending that all the Chartist prisoners should be defended from one fund.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Where were all these books and Papers found? A. In a box in the club-room—when Jones was taken he was talking to a man named Frederick Stokes, who was remanded and discharged—nothing was found on him.

CHARLES WALKER (police-inspector, V). I was at the Charter coffee-house at the apprehension of Jones—I saw him put his hand into his lefthand pocket, and take out a pistol—I immediately seized hold of his hand and took it from him—I afterwards went with Kendall to his lodging, at 20. Grey Coat-street, and in a cupboard found four perfect pistol ball-cartidges.

JOSEPH THOMPSON re-examined. I produce some papers, which I found at Rose's house on 11th Aug.—this plan was amongst them—(this was the plan spoken to by Powell).

EDWARD HENRY EAGLE . My father, is collector to the Chartered-Gas-light Company. I know Mullins by sight—I do not know what his profession is, ray father has corresponded with him on the subject of business—I have always seen his letters, and have formed an acquaintance with his hand writing.

MR. PARRY. Q. Is by sight, the only way you know him? A. The only way; I have communicated personally with him respecting business when he has called at our house; he lived somewhere in the neighbourhood—I have spoken to him several times—I have spoken to him about the letters I have received.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Look at that plan, and tell me if you believe that to be the hand-writing of Mullins? A. To the best of my belief it is his hand-writing.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You have never seen him write, I believe? A. I have not; I only believed the letters I received to be in his hand-writing by his coming on that subject.

COURT. Q. He has corresponded with your father, and you have spoken to him on the matters contained in those letters? A. Yes; to the best of my belief this is the same hand-writing as those letters were.

(These being put in, were five plans; the first was that spoken to by Powell with marks across the streets denoting barricades; one was a rough plan of the Seven Dials, one of Clerkenwell, and two blank sheets headed, "Seven Dish" and "Clerkenwell." The others were the two papers with the first syllables of names and numbers against them, as in page 745, and two receipts for gas cotton.)

THOMAS BARRETT . I am a shoemaker, and live at 17, Charles-street Lisson-grove. I am a member of the Chartist Association—I belonged to the Robert Emmett Brigade—I joined it last Whit-sunday—they held their meetings at a beer-shop kept by Morgan, in Praed-street, Paddington, and at a beer-shop kept by Breadon in Shouldham-street, Edgware-road, Marylebone—I know Mullins, and have heard him on more than one occasion address the Chartist meetings at Breadon's—there were Chartists and confederates present—I heard him address a meeting on Sunday, 13th Aug., I heard him address meetings once or twice before on Sundays—at Breadon's—on 13th Aug. I heard him tell the men to prepare for the crisis that was coming, and that it was necessary for each man to make a small sacrifice to aid the Committee of Progress, and that they would judge by their actions, by the way they contributed, how to act—I recollect a meeting at the same place Tuesday, 15th Aug., about eight o'clock—Mullins did not speak then—there were about twenty people, Chartists and confederates, assembled there—I went from there to Morgan's, and there were about twenty persons assembled there—they were waiting for the delegates to return and give instructions and orders, it was so stated at the meeting—the delegates did not arrive while was there, and a man named Smith took a cab and went to Kensal-green—I

did not go with him—on Wednesday, 16th Aug., I attended a meeting at Morgan's, in Praed-street—I went about eight—there were between twenty and thirty of our brigade present—they were waiting for—some delegates to come and give instructions—it was not mentioned exactly what for, but it was generally understood—there were several things mentioned, such as "a break out"—I went merely to see what was going on—I went from there to fireadon's in Sliouldbam-street, and got there about a quarter to nine—I found about thirty people assembled there—Mullins came into the room while I was there—he was not there when I first got there—when he came in, Smith, who had gone away in the cab on the Tuesday, was there—he clapped Mullins on the shoulder, and said, "My boy, I was afraid you were taken."—Mullins said, "No, they will only take me with my life."—Mullins then nentaway—another man, whose name I believe is Cruikshank, came into the room, and laid a musket on the table—I had seen him before on several occasions—I also saw two pikes and two pistols in the room—I saw no pike-handles—I heard orders given by Smith to the men to prepare and go to Seven Dials, and Crown-street, Soho, at ten that night, and their leaders would meet them there—a question was asked how the men could take their arms, and the reply was in the best way they could—the word "arms" was used, and "tooth-picks" as regarded pikes, there was an inquiry whether they had got their tooth-picks ready—Mullins had retired when he first came into the room, after what had passed between him and Smith—after a while, Malhins came and looked into the room, and then Smith ordered the people to go to Seven Dials—Mullins had looked into the room just before—this was after he had gone away as I stated—I did not see Mullins go away finally from the place—I do not know how he went away—he did not come in a third time—I saw a cab come there when he first arrived—the cab remained at the door—I do not know who went away in it—on the direction being given to go to Crown-street and Seven Dials, the people went away, in twos, threes, and fours, at short intervals—they did not go in procession—I went to Crown-street with one or two more, but I do not know their names—when I got there, I saw about thirty persons, about half, I think, of whom I had seen at Breadon's—I recognised them—I cannot tell the precise number.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. Yes—not against these men, but at the committal of Mullins—I am a journeyman shoemaker—I have been working lately at my own house—I have been employed partly by a master, and partly on my own account, making up goods and selling them—I was employed by a master the week before last—I have always been working at my trade, before Whitiunday and since—I joined the Emmett Brigade as a sincere moral force Chartist—I did not join it for the purpose of betraying the people I joined—it first came across my mind to betray them when I found the villainous part they were acting—I first began to betray them three weeks or a month ago, I cannot exactly say the day—I acted with them without intending to betray them up to 16th Aug., at least I attended their meetings, but took no Part in their proceedings—I did not communicate with the police or the authorities before the beginning of this month—it might be before, but I exactly say the day—I swear that before the 16th Aug, I did not communicate with the police—I cannot exactly say whether it was before 16th or after—I went as a volunteer, for the good of society, that was my only motive—I have not received anything for my information, only for my trouble attending here, and my loss of time since I have been attending here—I

have only received something for my trouble of attending since last Tuesday week, and that is all I have received—it was a little to maintain me—it might have been to the amount of 2l.—I am not married—I lived at 17, Charles-street, Lisson-grove, till Tuesday last—I lived there about a year and nine months—I swear no application was made to me—I do not know Powell—I saw him last Tuesday at How-street for the first time—I had heard before 1 went that he had given evidence and turned spy—I had not seen him before I was at Bow-street—I gave information to Inspector Williams—I was in a little trouble four years ago—I was charged, I believe, with felony, but I am not a certain whether it was felony or misdemeanor—it was only a drunkes spree, with three more, taking some bread from a baker's-cart—it was throws over a fence—the others ran away, and I was taken, and had to suffer for it—I had four months imprisonment—I was charged with stealing, I think. three half quartern loaves, I am not certain—I was not at the same time charged with having been before convicted—I was committed bv a Masisfcj for a month for poaching or trespassing—trespassing, I believe—it was in search of game—it was in Berkshire—I was an apprentice then—I had not a gun in my hand—it was about seven o'clock in the morning—I was not tried at the assizes—I was eighteen or nineteen years old then, I am not exactly sore, I might have been twenty; I was not twenty-one—I was not out of my tic—I am twenty-eight years old now—I was tried at the Middlesex session for the bread—I was not charged with having previously committed felony—I had not previously stolen anything—since then I have been in trouble—I think it is about seven or eight months ago—it was for having unlawful possession of a pint pot—the policeman charged me with stealing it, but not the owner—I was returning it to him—the owner was Mr. Thorne—I went before a Magistrate and was committed for a month—Mr. Thorne appeared against me on the first occasion, and I was remanded for Mrs. Thorne to appear—I am not certain whether it was in last March, it might be—if I had a month in March I came out in April—I cannot exactly say how soon after I came out of prison I joined the Emmett Brigade—I cannot remenber whether I had been out a month or six weeks—it might be two months, or it might be six weeks—I cannot exactly remember—I know a person named Robert Russell, who used to live at 14, Devonshire-sreel. Lisson-grove—he never charged me with stealing a coat from him, or the cape of a coat, or the cape of a woman's dress—I have never ben charged with stealing any such thing—I did sell the cape of a cloak for sixpence—I was not charged with having unlawful possession of it—I do not know whose it was, I did not inquire, I did not trouble myself about it; I found it going up the stairs of the Princess' Theatre in the crowd—I have never been so lucky before as that, or since—I do not exactly recollect when it was it might be nearly two years ago—I do not remember Mr. Russell claim that cape, or anybody belonging to him—I never spoke to Mr. or Mrs. Russell, was never charged with it; neither of them spoke to me on the subject—I know Charles Jones, of 2, Salisbury-street, Portland-town—I have known him about four years—I never had the care of Mr. Russell's rooms during his temporary absence—I do not remember Jones finding a handkerchief on me that belonged to him—Jones did not meet me and find a handkerchief on me which he chimed, and I did not take it off my neck and give it him—nothing of the kind ever occurred—I believe Jones had charge of Mr. Russell's rooms—I lived in the house at the time—I mean to adhere to my statement that Jones did not find a handkerchief on me, which he claimed as his—I Post tively swear it never occurred—I have not been taken to a station-house for

any other offence—the stealing of bread took place at Wilsden, where I lived—I was carrying on the shoe-making trade there—the three men who were with me were not shoemakers—I do not remember being found in a wine-cellar at Wilsden, under rather suspicious circumstances—I do not recollect anything of the kind—I was a moral force Chartist—I never meant to employ physical force, I swear that—I do not remember inducing anyone else to employ physical force—I solemnly swear I have never persuaded anyone to arm themselves, or to join the physical force movement—I have never offered any one arras, I swear that positively—I know William John Garrett, I believe he is a shoemaker—he resides at 14, Linton-place, Edgeware-road—I sirear I never offered him any arms, or any one—I remember meeting him on Tuesday, 15th Aug., about dusk—I did not want him to go to a meeting at Seven Dials—I swear I never said anything about it—I know he is here—I did not know there was to be a meeting on 15th Aug., at Seven Dials, I swear that—I showed Garrett a pistol on Tuesday; that day—I was a moral force man—a pistol is not a moral force weapon—I had oaly one pistol about me then; I had had two just before—I wish to explain—I was met in Great James-street by a man with a handkerchief and two pistols and three gross of bill cartridges, as he stated—he asked me to take them to my house, as they were afraid that the police had found out they had been making these cartridges—I took them to my house, and left one pistol and the cartridges there—the other pistol I put into my pocket, and went to Linton-place, Edgware-road, where Garrett resides—I saw him there, and showed him the pistol—I then went to William New's house, in Linton-place—he is a moral-force Chartist, and would not believe they were so physically prepared, and I went and showed him the pistol and cartridges to convince him—I took a dozen cartridges with me, tied in a bundle—I was well acquainted with the man 1 met in James-street—I showed Garrett the pistol and the ball cartridges—I do not believe that I told him I made them—I may have told him so, but I am not certain—if I did tell him, it was a lie—I might have told that lie, and forgotten it—I am not certain—I told him that they expected a break-out that night; I meant the Chartists—I will swear the words I used were not, "We expect a turn-up with the police this evening"—I did not tell him, to my knowledge, that I had been engaged all day making ball-cartridges—I think I did not tell him any such thing—I will not swear I did not—I might have said it and forgotten it, but I believe I did not mention any such thing—I did not ask him to go with me—I think the words were, "Will you be there?" or, "Will you go?"—I did not know where at the time—I did not ask him to go to Seven Dials, and he did not decline to go—I never asked him—I know William New—I know he is brought here as a witness against me—this is my writing (looking at a paper)—I gave it to William New one day this week, I think Monday—(read)—"Mr. New, I know not what treachery is brewing now; but, for your own safety, do not put yourself forward in anything, for there are orders to take any of you; and you are all marked. After I get my liberty, there will a thing appear that will astonish the country. Dear friend, I am a coward, and seek my own safety; but do so no more now."—I gave that to him when about twenty persons were congregated outside, laying their heads together, and constantly holding up their fists, and shaking their fists, to intimidate me—I wrote it as I stood, and saw them in the waiting-room among the other witnesses, as I stood at the window—I was not taken up, but 1 did not consider I was at liberty to go among them for my own safety—I am attended by a policeman, so that no one can injure me—there is only one at

a time—there might be one or two near me when I walk out—I am not allowed to go out without being attended by a policeman—that is what I meant by "after I get my liberty'—I could do it now if I wished—I did not give New this letter to prevent his giving evidence against me—it was to prevent him putting himself forward in any assault, as they were continually holding up their fists to me, and insulting me, as I stood in the waiting-room—all the witnesses for both sides did not stand in the same place—I did not know that William New was to come as a witness against me at the tine I wrote it—I knew it since—I saw New the night Mullins was apprehended—I am not certain when that was—it was the evening I appeared at Row-street—I called on him—I did not happen to have much money about me then nothing but what I had sold my boots for, that I had in hand—I do not know that I was rather flush of money—I might have had 10s. or 12s.—New is a shoemaker—I told him he might have some of my goods, a few worthies articles—I did not tell him that I was not going to work again—I did not give him some unfinished work to do for me—I gave him some upper leathers of boots, under an understanding that I was to have the worth of them fro him—it was a job I had to do on my own account—it was not for any particular order—I had the leathers, and he was to have them, and to make it up to me in some way or other—I did not say to him that I was not going to work again, and did not then give him some unfinished work of mine to do—I had begun to work on these upper leathers—I did not state that my uncle had sent me some money—I stated that I was going to Southampton—I did not state that my uncle had given me some money, and that I was to have 1l. a week as long as I lived—I stated that I was going to Southampton, where I was in hopes 1 should soon get into work, and be able to earn 1l. a week; but nothing concerning as long as I lived—two gentlemen did not come for me while 1 was talking to New—one man came—he did not take me away-l did not go away with him directly—I afterwards went, and met him in the street—I suppose he was watching for me—he was a person in plain clothes—he came into New's house.

MR. CLARKSON. Q. What did you do with the pistols? A. I took them and the cartridges to the man who gave them me on the evening of Wednesday—they were distributed round among a number of men, at the Hope and Anchor public-house, Lisson Grove—the man went by the nick-name of Hell-fire Jack—he was a well-known man in the neighbourhood—they called him Young Bombshell, or Hell-fire Jack—he was a Chartist.

GEORGE DAVIS . I am a shoemaker, of 5, Straite's Mouth, Greenwich. I joined the Wat Tyler brigade of Chartists, which was held at the Druids' Arcs, Straite's Mouth, Greenwich on 24th May—I was accepted as a delegate, to attend a meeting that was formed at the George, in the Old Bailey—thirteen persons met there; Mullins, Rose, Payne, Lacey, Smith, and others, whos names 1 do not know—they first met on the day of Ernest Jones' trial—Mullins asked if there were anv members of the old delegate committee wbis was formed on Whit-Monday there—I was one, and said, "Yes"—he asked them to retire on one side of the room, and those that were not delegates, to the other—they did so, and consulted together, and said that it was a shaffi the prisoners should go to gaol without one struggle to release them—it was stated that the route taken from Newgate to Cold Bath-fields would be through Cow Cross, and that would be the best place to attack them, for they would find a friend there that would lead the Iribh out of their localities, (meaning Daley)—a motion was made with regard to calling the delegates

together from every locality—I attended meetings of the Committee up to 16th Aus., and within two hours after every meeting, made communications of what took place to Inspector Marks—he wrote down what I said, from my dictation, read it over to me, and I signed it—this paper, signed by me, was written by my dictation, and is an account of the meeting of 15th Aug.

KINGSTON MARKS (police-inspector, R). I was in communication with Davis, at Greenwich—he made reports from time to time of what occurred at the different meetings which he attended—I took it down in his own words—I read it over to him slowly and carefully—he approved and signed the whole of them—these are the reports (produced)—I sent copies of them forthwith to the authorities.

GEORGE DAVIS continued. I have kept no note or minute of what occurred—I have no means of speaking with accuracy of what occurred, without referring to the notes taken by Marks—on 16th Aug. I was present when the people were apprehended at the Orange Tree—the night before that, I attended a meeting at the Lord Denman, Suffolk-street, Blackfriars—about twenty-six or twenty-seven people were present—Mullins was in the chair, and Payne, Erewster, Allnutt, Fay, Cuffey were there, and Lacey for a short time—I understand be went away with the Sub-committee, to a coffee-house, a few doors higher up—there were others there.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Have you any recollection except from the note? A. I can recollect the main substance, but not the dates—I refer to the notes ii. to refresh my memory as to the dates and who was present—they have not been read over to me lately—I have not read them myself—I can read and iv. write, but not very well.

(The ATTORNEY-GENERAL proposed to put this paper into the witness's hands, that he might refresh his memory by it. Mr. Ballantine, (fallowed by MESSRS. PARRY, PARNELL, and METCALFE,) objected to this being done; the paper being written by another party, and not by the witness himself, who could nal touch for its accuracy. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL referred to two cases, in the one where Mr. Baron Parke had allowed a witness to refresh his nmory from the notes of the learned Judge himself, and in the other where Mr. Baron Alderson had permitted the notes of counsel to be used for the sane purpose. The COURT was of opinion that, in strictness, this course was admissible, if the witness, after looking at the paper, spoke only from his recollection, and not from the contents of the paper. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, after some discussion, slated that he would endeavour to pursue the examination, if possible, without referring to the paper.)

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Who were present at the Lord Denman the night before the people were apprehended at the Orange Tree? A. Mullins the chairman, Payne, Brewster, Lacey, Fay, Cuffey, Allnutt, Ferdinando, and a person named Simmonds part of the evening, Ritchie, Johnson, and others; in all twenty-seven—Lacey was there a very short time—Lacey did not come back with the sub-coraraittee—Mullins, Lacey, Payne, Brewster, and Cuffey, went out with the sub-committee—they all came back, except Lacey—they were absent about three-quarters of an hour, or it might be an bur—Mullins said they had come to a resolution that they would have an outbreak on the ensuing evening (Wednesday)—that he himself meant to take the fceven Dials, Brewster was to take Clerkenwell, Payne the Tower Hamlets, and Busbctt, I think, was to take Strutton-ground, including the south of London—Brewster distributed tri-coloured bands, to be worn on the right arai, for tite delegates, to appoint them as leaders—I myself received two

from Brewster, one for myself and one for a delegate that ought to have attended with me—they were to meet at twenty minutes past nine and to bring what arms they could get—a motion was made as to where the localities should meet on the Wednesday—one was appointed to meet, at the Peacock, Westminster-road; another, at the Crispin, in Milton-street, Cripplegate; another, at Breadon's beer-shop, Shouldham-street; and the fourth, I think, at the Buck's Head, somewhere about Bethnal-green-road, or Hackney-road—a motion had been made the night before that the delegates select four men that were willing to risk anything and everything to attend where Ritchie should appoint them; it was merely a conversation—they were appointed to meet Ritchie at the Orange Tree, from five to seven—they were called luminaries by Mullins—there was to be a pass-word—Ritchie was to say to them, when they came in, "Do you want me?" and if they answered "Justice" he would know they were the men sent by the delegates-nothing was said about what Ritchie was to provide, but that he would give instructions to these men; but each man was advised to come armed, if he could—we met at the Orange Tree, Red Lion-square on the 14th—there wert between twenty and thirty present—Mullins, Payne, Brewster, Ciiffey, Ritchie, Crookshank, Allnutt, Fay, Johnson, Pearce, Simmons, Fleming, two Granshaws, (brothers,) and a person named Ford; he was not a delegate, but was bail for Ernest Jones, he brought 6s. 1d. from a new localto started at Knightsbridge—I do not know where he lived; I understood th; he came from Knightsbridge-district—at the same time he came, Mr. Reank, the editor of the Northern Star, came under the pretence that he was seit the meeting; but there had been reports that he was a Government spy, ana they would not go on with the business till he left the room—he was asked to go down stairs—it was moved by Mullins, at that meeting, that each delegate should go back to his locality and pick four men out, who were willing to do anything that was required of them—some one asked what they meant by it, and be said be would point to the gas, and they might take by his pointing what he meant; and Cuffey said it was no use to mince the matter, they wanted them for firing, or anything that might be required of them; for it was no use to mince the matter now, they knew their necks were in jeopardy; in fact, the halter was round their necks, and it was co use to say it in half words; that they wanted men to fire station-houses, or warehouses, or anything that might be required of them—a motion was made that two delegates should be sent to the meeting of the engine-drivers of tie North Western Railway to know what iheir opinions were; not to compromise themselves too much, by stating their views, and getting them to join the Chartists, but to hear the opinions of the drivers first; and if they found they were agreeable to close with the Chartists, they were to bring them to tie meeting, or delegates from their body, on a future night—Crookshank and Ritchie were appointed to go, and 18d. was allowed them for expenses—a remark was made that they wondered Lacey had not come that night—they waited for him till half-past eight, and then adjourned to the Lord Denman-there was another meeting that night of Confederates, at Nagle's; I did not attend it—Johnson attended both these meetings—I did not, at that time, know that his name was other than Johnson—I did not know he was in communication with the police; in fact, he was the last man I should hm thought of—I have not had any communication with him since, except one word as I stood in Court, now—the meeting before that at the Orange Tree was held, I think, at Breadon's—I remember two or three meetings at Hopkinson's

coffee-house, Saffron-hill—the last meeting I attended there was on the Sunday morning before the apprehension of the parties—there were not many delegates present—Mullins, Payne, Brewster, Fuzzon, Allnutt, Ritchie, and others, were there; I did not see Johnson—I had received a letter from Mullins on the Saturday, calling the meeting—a resolution was moved by Jluliins that the meeting should be adjourned till the afternoon—a few of us had a consultation down stairs, and they invited us up to the locality meeting, which was held every Sunday morning—when I went in there was a motion on, whether the district of Clerkenwell should turn out for physical force or not—it was put to the vote and carried that they should turn out—mention was made that a person of the name of Meriman had made a report that two nen at the head of the movement were in the pay of the Government, and communicated to the police the whole of the proceedings—there was a long discussion upon it, and two delegates were appointed to wait on Meriman, to know the truth or falsehood of the statement; but I understood they could not get an interview with him—the meeting adjourned till three in the afternoon, and met at Breadon's beer-shop, in Shouldham-street—there were about thirty present—Cuffey was there, and was appointed secretary to the subcommittee at that meeting—there was a letter read from Lacey. I understood, from Manchester, stating that trade was very brisk there, and he was surprised that he had not received the order that he sent down, which we inferred meant the money that he had written for; trade was very good, and he expected a very large order—an order was wanted to be sent down by the Monday night, by the last train—the letter did not mention when he expected to be in town—a stranger, whose name I do not know, and—who I never saw before, stated that the Irish brigade in St. Giles's had provided themselves with a musket each, and so many rounds of cartridge, and were willing to assist in whatever resolution the Chartists might come to—the meeting broke up between five and six—I remember going to attend a meeting at Perry's coffee-house, Shoreditch, and no meeting took place, because the police had seized some papers from Rose's at eight the same morning, (Friday); some persons there told me so, I do not know their names, one was Donnovan; a person who was there purposely appointed, told me so—they were playing at cards down stairs—I did not go up—I went away with Pedley, to Rose's house, to ascertain if it was true, I found it was so—the meeting that I attended before that was either at the Lord Denman or the Orange Tree—I think it was on the Tuesday or Wednesday before—Wednesday was the 9th—Mullins, Payne, Brewster, Cuffey, Nash, Rose, Pedley, Johnson, Donnovan, Fuzzon, and Allnutt, were there—something was said about M'Douall, but it was a private conversation—Rose is a carrier by trade, and was secretary to the sub-committee—Mullins was treasurer—they in general inquired whether anybody had brought any funds, and the delegates made reports of the state of their localities, and how many men they could depend on that would turn out to fight in case of an outbreak they did not do that at all the meetings, but at three or four of them—I think the number was mentioned as 1500 at one meeting, and above 2000 at another—they reckoned that the aggregate number mustered about 3000, and Mullins remarked that it was not those they depended on; they did not depend on the organised Chartists, but they reckoned there were about 30000 thieves and vagabonds about London who would co-operate with and assist them—on the Sunday morning before that, we met at Dennis's coffee-jouse, Great St. Andrew's-street, Seven Dials—Mullins, Payne, Brewster, ttose, and Thompson, were there—I know Lynch; I will not be certain whether

he was there, and I will not ho certain whether Fay was there—there were not above nine—I do not believe Cuffey was there—it was proposed, I think at that meeting that each delegate should bring up 10s. to form a fund—I was present at a meeting when the committee resigned, and a fresh committee was appointed—I think that was on Monday evening, the 7th, at Dennis coffee-house—the committee consisted of Fay, Mullins, Bassett, Donnovan Payne, Brewster, Lynch, and Dowling; I do not think Cuffey was a member—there were three Irish on it beside Dowling; Lynch, Fay, and Donnovan—they resigned on account of the news coming from Ireland that the rebels had been defeated, and there was some remark about Smith O'Brien, bull forget it—the Irishmen had been added to the committee in order that the; Confederates should be fairly represented as well as the Chartists—a new committee of four was then formed, with ore prospective, who was to be president—his name was not mentioned, but it was understood from Mullies that it was Churchill, who was then in France—the four were Brewster Mullins, Payne, and I will not be certain about the other; but 1 think it Cuffey—I know Bassett, the president, was to take the command of the whole committee; and it was proposed, by a person named Warry, that a farthing should be paid by each person in each locality to support the president—at the meeting at the Dispatch coffee-house, Dowling made a motion that the Confederate's and all the Chartist's localities should meet on Primrose—the Sunday; but when it came to the vote it was not carried: they hthougt it was premature—there was a meeting previous to this at the Dispatch coffee-house, I think, on the Wednesday—the Sunday meeting was at two in it afternoon—I think it was at the latter end of July—there was a meed; proposed to be held on Kennington-common on that same Sunday—we held a meeting that day at the Dispatch coffee-house, and had messengers from there to Kennington-common, to communicate any outbreak that might place—it was to be passed along on a bit of paper, written in pencil—persons were stationed every two hundred yards—it was supposed to be a meeting of Chartists; it was called by advertisement, by a person named Dwaine, of Cartwright's locality—the men were stationed between the common and the coffee-house; that had been agreed on before—I do not know who was employed to superintend them—Johnson was very busy over them-a meeting did take place at Kennington-common, but there was only a politic! sermon preached, I believe—there were reports that everything was quiet, except that two or three policemen in plain clothes were attempting to get up a disturbance—nothing further was done, that I am aware of—I forget at what place we met before that Sunday—I was taken so suddenly in coming forward to give evidence that I cannot recollect, for I did not think of comb; forward to give evidence in this ease up to ten this morning—I have only just come from Greenwich—I attended several other meetings before that—there was one meeting at Hopkinson's coffee-house, and I saw plans, and like weeks a map of London there—I think Payne had possession of them, and Hose, Mullins, Brewster, Thompson, and myself, were there together—I cannottd. when that was; it was before the meetings I have poken of; it was is forepart of the evening when the plans were produced—Johnson was there afterwards—those plans were just marked out, similar to a map on a piece oi paper—they were rather small—Mullins explained it, and pointed out thati. was to erect barricades from Clerkenwell down to Seven Dials, and from Seven Dials down Drury-lane to St. Mary's Church, in the Strand, by Somerset-house, and right along the Strand to Temple-bar; that would form

a good barricade, and from Temple-bar down Fleet-street, and by the water-side, and they were to make sure of Chaplin and Home's premises—I should know the plan if I were to see it—this is not it (looking at the one identified by Powell)—there were not so many figures on it; it was very plain indeed V—this is not it (looking at another)—they were to make a circle round from Holborn till they got to St. Martin's-le-Grand, and down there till they got to Clerkenwell-green and Aldersgate-street, and they were to take possession of St. Paul's Church—this is not the plan (looking at another)—it was merely in the centre of the paper, scribbled out, a rough plan—I attended a meeting at the Black Jack; that was not my first attendance as a delegate; I first attended as a delegate on Whit-Monday—I attended of my own accord at the Black Jack, for Greenwich—I merely went to get information—Mullins, Payne, Rose, and Dowling, were there—Johnson came in afterwards—Dolling said he attended the meeting, not being elected as a delegate, but at the invitation of Mullins—Dowling was a confederate, and secretary of the Davis-dub—a sub-committee, consisting of Rose, the secretary; Payne, the chairman; Mullins, the Treasurer; Dowling and Brewster were appointed for the purpose of drawing out plans to attack the police and soldiers—it was not said how many plans were to be drawn out—I attended other meetings.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. I understood you to say, in answer to the Attorney-General, that you were not a Chartist? A. I was not when I first gave information to the police—I have become so since—I do not mean a genuine Chartist, but a member of the Chartist Association—I am not a Chartist in principle, merely for the purpose of gaining information—you may call it for the purpose of trickery—I was desirous of finding out their secrets, and then betraying them—I was not desired to do so.

Q. Have you carried on the business of a spy long, or was this your first start in that vocation? A. I have carried it on since 12th March—I am not. attached to the Government, or to any division, nothing of the sort—I never was employed as a spy at all—I employed myself—it was my own private speculation—I did not want to turn it to anything—it was merely to save destruction of life and property—that was my sole object—it was with no object of emolument to myself—I had no desire to gain anything by it—when I gave information I did not require anything for it, nor had I any desire for anything of the sort—I did not expect to gain anything by it—I offered to give it up several times, and wanted to retire—the superintendent and inspector begged me to keep on with it, and I did so—I did not give the superintendent my notes at the end of every meeting—I saw him at the end of each meeting, and told him my story—I have been paid nothing for this job—I have been at wort, and have been living on that—I employ men—I have other means of living without being a spy—I keep a shop, and have for seven years, at 5, Strait-mount, Greenwich—I am married, and have three children—when I first gave information, I did not expect to get anything by it—I now expect to be remunerated for the loss of what trade I shall be compelled to lose—I have not made any bargain about what I am to get for the loss of my trade—I trust entirely to the generosity of the Government—they have not agreed to give me one farthing—I mean to apply to them for compensation for what I have lost in my trade—I have lost something in my trade at present—people have suspected me of being a spy for the last month past—I have found myself pointed at—I have not found all the honest and respectable people in the neighbourhood endeavouring to avoid me—I communicated with the police previous to enrolling myself—it was not by agreement with them that I enrolled myself—I thought I could learn more—Robinson,

a member of the Chartist Association, solicited me to join them—he is not one of the persons I have betrayed—he is a Chartist—I was not here yesterday at Dowling's trial—I was not before the Grand Jury, or before a Magistrate—the prisoners have not heard one word that 1 had to say against them.

Q. When did you first know you were required as a witness? A. I did not know I should be required at all—no application was made to me—I came of my own accord, at eleven o'clock to-day—I was not sent for—I applied myself, to be made a witness—I am not brought here by the Crown or under any subpœna—it was a voluntary act of my own—the Government have been in possession of my papers, and they applied to me to go as a witness, and I refused—I cannot tell the exact day they applied to me; it two or three days after the arrest at the Orange-Tree took place—I had not made any bargain with the Government that I was not to appear—I have sworn it, and repeat it, that I came of my own accord to-day, having refuse: previously.

Q. Plow came you to alter your mind? A. Through reading the newspaper this morning, and seeing the character the witness had yesterday, and 1 knew no one could bring such charges against me—it was from reading the account of the cross-examination of Powell—it occurred to me that he bore rather a bad character, and cut rather a bad figure—I did not want to bolster him up—I came to give the light evidence, because I thought the Jury would not believe Powell's statement to be true, as he bore such a bad character.

Q. And did not you know that if there was a verdictof acquittal, you would lose all your payment for this job? A. I did not think anything at ail about payment—on my solemn oath, I did not believe that if there was a verdict of acquittal, I should lose all the remuneration that I might otherwise get—I read Powell's examination nearly through, not very carefully.

Q. I dare say, from what you saw of it, you would hardly believe him on his oath? A. I do not know; I would with regard to that, because he told the truth—I carried a couple of loaded pistols for my own protection—I have never got up any meeting—I have never said I had fighting-men at my command—I saw Marks, the inspector of police, at Greenwich, this morning, at his own house—I went to him—I did not come up here with him, I came by myself—I asked his advice whether I should come up—he communicated with the superintendent, and decided, if I came, they would be in attendance here for me, and I came.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You say you saw the examination in the paper this morning? A. Yes; in the Morning Advertiser—it was the cross-examination, where he was asked whether he belonged to the thimble-rig—on reading that cross-examination, I went to Inspector Marks, to ask his advice, whether it was requisite that I should come up, whether he thought it would do any good—I was unwilling to come as a witness.

CHARLES BALDWINSON . I live in Webber-street, Black friars-road, and am a tailor. I became a member of the Chartist Association, of the Lambeth locality, about the middle of May—their place of meeting was Chartist-hall, Webber-street—I became a class-leader about three weeks after, and had nine men under me—on the Monday night before the men were arrested at the Angel, in Webber-street, I remember meeting Morgan, who was taken up there—on Tuesday, 15th, I mot him again, at the Queen Victoria beershop, at the corner of New-street, in Short-street, between seven and eight o'clock in the evening, and went with him to the Peacock, in Francis-street,

Westminster-road—we found the class-leaders of the Lambeth district thera—a person named Pedley, a delegate belonging to the council of the Lambeth locality, was there—I was there that evening about two hours and a half—Pedley said there was a delegate coming from Manchester, and that they were up and doing in Manchester and the North of England—Pedley told us all to sit down, and he asked us all if we were prepared to fight—one man smiled, and said, "You don't mean it?" and Pedley said, "We do mean it;" and then he said, "Then we are ready to come out"—he told us to tell our men to come there the next night, at eight o'clock, with arms, and those who had not arms would be put in the way to get them—we were to meet at the Broadway, Westminster, where we should meet the Dean-street locality—we were to come to the Peacock first—he mentioned that the other localities were to meet at the Seven-dials, Clerkenwell-green, and at the east end of the town—in pursuance of those directions, I went, about one o'clock, next day, and spoke to six of my men, I think—Conway, whowas taken at the Angel, was one, and Prowton another—I told them what Pedley had said—I went to the Peacock by myself, I believe, at eight o'clock, and met Morgan, Pedley, Conway, Chester a class-leader, and Winspere, there—Pedley brought a paper, with some coloured ribbons in it, which he said the delegates were to wear, that tie men might know them; and another paper with some powder, with which he filled up some ball-cartridges—I had a pike—head, and I afterwards fetched my pistol—Pedley gave me a ball-cartridge to load the pistol—this is one of the ribbons (the one produced)—in consequence of something that the landlady said, I went to the Angel, in Webber-street—I left Pedley behind, but he came afterwards—he left about three minutes before the police came—I had given information to the police between two and three o'clock in the afternoon—I saw Pedley load a pistol at the Angel for a man, whose name I forget—he did not take it away.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Am I to take it that up to 16th Aug. you were a party in this transaction? A. Yes, up to the 16th—I had left them for about a fortnight previous to that—I mean I had not attended any meeting for a fortnight up to 14th—I had not been in communication at all with the police before—I knew of the meeting of the 16th—it was of that meeting that I gave information—I was at the meeting, and was taken into custody—I then had a loaded pocket-pistol on me—I am a journeyman tailor by trade—I gave a pike—head to Conway to take care of; and it was found on him—I bought it, I cannot tell when—it was somewhere about July, or the latter end of June—I had it to take off suspicion, that the parties might not know I had informed—I carried it inside my coat—I showed it to them, and the pistol too—I never took the pike—head to the meeting before the 16th; yes, I beg your pardon, I did once—I was not examined before the Magistrate—the prisoners have never had an opportunity of hearing what I had to say against them—I did not go before the Grand Jury—I knew last week that I was to be examined as a witness—I have never been in any trouble.

MR. WELSBY. Q. Were you examined last Friday in Dowling's case? A. Yes.

(George Wilson, Thomas Pronger, Samuel Evans, William Thomas, Thomas Mollison, John Bambridge, Joseph Hoyle, William Robert Black, John Johnson, and William Randall, gave the same evidence as in pages 750 and 751.)

HENRY JONES (policeman). On 17th Aug. I was on duty on Clerken-well-green—about half-past four o'clock in the morning I went into the

churchyard, and found this basket, containing ball-cartridges (produced)—here are 280 perfect, and about fifty unfinished—it was close adjoint. Clerkenwell-green—the churchward is inclosed in a railing—there is a passage in it leading to some old houses—any one can go in at all hours of the night—I found it in a dark corner, opposite a bookbinder's, shop—any one into the churchyard to put them there—the gate is always open.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE Q. Did you expect to find them? A. No; I found them by accident.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Had you been in the churchyard the morning before? A. Yes, the 16th—I go into the churchyard at all times—I went in every quarter of an hour while I was on duty there—on on the night I found these I was on duty four hours, from two o'clock in the morning till six—I do not know who had been on duty before me—two o'clock is not say regular time to come on duty, but I was kept on reserve that night—I was ordered to stop at the station till I was ordered on duty—that was at two o'clock—I had not been out on special duty the night before, or the night before that, hut the night after I went out regularly—that is my regular status—it is something out of the usual way to go at two in the morning—after I went round my beat as usual—that part of the churchyard forms part of my beat—I did not go with any intent to find anything, or discover anything—I had not been there the morning before at that time, nor the morning before that, nor did I go the morning after.

MR. BODKIN. Q. At what hour do you usually go on your beat? A. At nine in the evening, but on 16th Aug. a reserve force was kept till two o'clock and I did not go on duty till two, in consequence—I did nothing else than obey the orders of my principal when I went on duty that night—at a quarter past four, just at daylight, I found the basket—I do not go through the churchyard—there is a passage, with pallisades on one side, and tombstones on the other, and three houses on the right-hand side, and on that side there is a sort of nook, this basket was set there, and this handkerchief laid over is and the unfinished cartridges sticking up in it—the handkerchief enabled me to discover it, by its being daylight.

JOSIAS CHILTON . I live in Crawford-street, Bryanston-square. I know Breadon's beer-shop, in Shouldham-street—I went into the tap-room there an 16th Aug., between eight and nine o'clock at night—there were eighteen or twenty people there, chiefly Irish—I heard Crown-street mentioned—I took it to be Soho—I did not hear Soho mentioned—they were to meet there—I saw a gun unfolded from a wrapper—it was in pieces, but it was put into the stock—I saw something similar to a sword on the table near the door, with a rough handle, made of wood—the people dispersed about two at a time I was there nearly an hour and a half, till they had all gone.

ROBERT WARRINGTON . I am an operative chemist, attached to Apothecaries' Hall. Here are some forms of mixtures on this paper (found at Rose's)—they could be applied to purposes of spontaneous combustion—they become explosive by mixture with themselves—here are three ditierent spontaneous explosive compounds—this is a common lecture experiment, illustrating a case of spontaneous combustion—it is nitrate of copper wrapped up in tin-foil, and in five minutes it ignites, and becomes perfectv red-hot, or in three or four minutes; it depends on the quantity of water used—the next is a mixture of a portion of steel-filings and sulphur, which I presume are to be made into a paste; that is, a mixture which gives out a great deal of heat, but it does not inflame—the next mixture is woollen rags

steepped in a mixtuie of three parts of nitric acid and one ounce of sulphuric which is a very powerful explosive compound—when I say explosive, I mean calculated to ignite very shortly—I cannot make out the last item on the paper, it is nitrate of silver inclosed with pebble stones—this ball I have not looked at, it seems to be a packet of gunpowder—here are some nails in it and a piece of cotton which attaches the paper together—I do not know whether it is a slow match.

MR. PARRY to William Broom Cross. Q. Did you apprehend Fay? A. Yes—he was not searched—I took him to Bow-street station—he has been in custody ever since—I do not know that he has been searched at all—I took him at 14, Knight-street, Milton-street—I believe it was his residence—it was a private house—I believe there was no name—he was at work there with his father—the house was searched by Serjeant Grey—we found nothing—the father said Fay was his son—I saw him on a seat there at work with a person who he called father, and who called him son; but at first be denied his name being Fay—I do not think I have said that before—tins was on the 18th—Powell was being examined when I was at Bow-street with Fay—Brannan and Grey pointed Fay out to me—I did not consider him in my custody.

JAMES BRANNAN (police-sergeant, G 20). I took Fay—I know that he lived at 14, Plough-court, Milton-street—he said, "My name is not Fay"—I said, "It is, you must come along with me."

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. "Was it his father's house? A. His father lived in the top room, he is a boot-closer—he was sitting at work—he knew me before—I knew where he resided, and knew him—I had not bees in bis company, more than seeing him—I have done duty there many years—I should say he knew me very well—we have spoken together—I do not wear uniform—I have not the slightest doubt that he knew me, and his father also.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JAMES PARIS . I am foreman to Mr. Smith, a master builder, of Taberaicle-row, Finsbury. Thomas Powell is his brother-in-law—I have worked in the same shop with him seven or eight years I believe—I have known him about eleven years, but only about seven years intimately—he is not a man who I would believe on his oath.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You are a Scotchman? A. Yes—I have seen Powell this morning—I did not talk to, or. shake hands with him—I was not within reach of him—I never heard him examined as a witnes, and have never heard him sworn—I would not believe him on his oath, because he is in the habit of telling so many lies—he once said Lord John Russell committed suicide by cutting his throat, and that a thief took a side of pork from Mr. Rowland's bhop; and that two or three policemen went in search of him; and Mr. Rowland's wife went and made inquiry, and there was no truth in it—at another time he told me that Mr. Hudson, a neighbour, was dead; it turned out not to be so—these things were not long ago—I have had this opinion of him for two years—I worked with him up to the time he left—I do not recollect seeing him last Friday—I did not shake hands with him, and say I hoped Government would take care of his wife and children—I said I was sorry for his children for what he had done—I would not shake hands with him, because he has told so many lies—I believe I am not a Chartist—I do not know what Chartism is—I belong to no public body or association whatever.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Have you been Mr. Smith's foreman eight or nine years? A. Not all the time, I was a journeyman before that;. I was foreman

two years—I left, and was away two years and a half—when I said I was sorry for him and his children, I referred to his becoming an informer—I do not remember hearing him called "Lying Tom" in his presence.

THOMAS OSBORNE . I am a workman at Mr. Smith's. Powell worked there—I believe he is a relation of Mr. Smith's—I have known him three years and five months, and from what I have known of his character I would not believe him on his oath, if he was on his dying bed—I have heard him talk very little of Chartism—I was not in the shop much lately—about two months ago he told me there was to be a Chartist rising, no one else was present—he asked me to join three or four months ago, it might be three weeks after the Kennington-common meeting on 10th April, not more.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Did you go to the Kennington-common meeting? A. No, I was at Bishop Bonner's-fields but a: no meeting—I was there on the Sunday when people were collected, not during the evening—I was there on the day the police were attacked—I was there when the church windows were broken, but did not see them—I did not hear Ernest Jones speak—I do not know him—I was at a meeting at Birdcage-walk—I cannot say if it was on 22nd April—Powell pointed out a blacksmith to make a pike if I wanted one—he asked whether I had joined—I said, "Yes"—that was a lie, but I would not believe him on his oath, because I have found him out in so many—I heard him examined here on Tuesday—I was here to speak the truth—I was subpoenaed—I did not hear the witnesses ordered to leave the Court, but as soon as I heard there were orders, I left—that is the only occasion I have heard him examined—he came in one day as if he was frightened, and said Lord John Russell had committed suicide—two or three days before he gave information, he was sharpening a saw, and broke one of the wings of the nut which it was fixed with, he said there was no man at that end of the shop but me, I must get another—I said, "You can get one for 1d.," and gave him one—he went out, I said to one of my shopmates, "Depend upon it it be will say it cost 2d.," and accordingly he did so, but a man in the countint-house said he gave it to him—I did not deny breaking it—none of the other belived and it was the same with me—I did not attend Chartist meeting before 10th April—I attended a meeting at Birdcage-walk, it was quite accidental—I went two or three times, on two or three Sunday mornings—it was in some ruins where houses had been built—several persons spoke—May was one—no one went with me—I did not hear there was going to be a meeting on 16th Aug. not till next morning—I was never taken up—I did not take Powell's advice and get a pike—I am not at regular work—if Mr. Smith wants me, he employs me—I sometimes earn more than 30s. a week, sometimes less—I went to the meeting because it was proposed that as so many carpenters were out of employ, and their tools were all popped, and if they would subscribe something to get them out of, pawn, they could go to work, and be able to be a great help to the cause—I did not subscribe, I went to oppose him—I spoke—May had put the proposition at a former meeting—he was a perfect stranger to me—I did not go the next Sunday—if it was brought forward, I should have told the parties he was doing it for his own self—I do not think I went four times—I have done jobs with Pennell-there was a little difference between us—I am not aware that he charged me a with taking some wood—he never did to my face, and I never heard of it—I worked at Bishop's Stortford, in Hertfordshire—I left there about a low affair, which my parents were against me in—I brought her to London—I married her first—I never heard Powell examined on oath.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Why did you tell Powell you had joined the

Chartists? A. Because I was always afraid of him ever since I knew him—if any of us offended him, he would not tell us of it, nor seek revenge at the moment, but would Jet it go over five or six months, and then seek revenge, not on us, but on our tools—I cannot say that he has done so.

RICHARD PENNELL . I am a carpenter and joiner, and work for Mr. Hill, of Turner-street, Whitechapel—I have known Powell twelve or thirteen years—I have worked in the same shop with him for a number of years—from what I know of him I would not believe him on his oath—I have heard him called "Lying Tom" to his face, thousands of times, in Mr. Smith's shop—I once heard him say he would send Lord John Russell and Sir George Gray, the Queen, the b—y foreigner, and all the family, to the devil within a month—about a week or ten days before 10th April be wished me to attend at Cartwright's to be proposed a member of the society—I said I did not like the proceedings, and I did not think they would gain the Charter in the way they were going on—he said they would gain it, and would not be long about it—they would have it within a month, or a fortnight—he wished me to propose him as a delegate if I joined, as he was not known in the Society, and said he could get 2l. or 3l. a week, and that would be better than humbugging about for old Smith, his brother-in-law, the builder—I asked, "How are you going to get the Charter? what do you think the Government will be about?"—he said, "We have got a weak and a b----y Government—look at our present Queen, with her hundreds of thousands a year, and you and me are working at our benches from morning to night for the sake of a bit of bread"—he said if I would come to his house on Sunday morning he would show me materials enough to blow London to hell in half an hour—I went a portion of the way, but not liking his character prevented me going further—some years ago he gave me a printed bill about Socialism.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Did you ever work for Mr. Smith? A. Yes—I was dismissed through shortness of work—that was the only reason—he did not tell me I never should have work there again—I have never required it since—I left I suppose seventeen months ago—I never heard Powell examined on his oath, but I have beard him swear openly in the shop times out of number, so help his God, be would swear anything if he could get paid for it—I do not mean to say he would speak out openly to every one in the shop; he did not like the foreman to know what was going on at all—he has told me of instances when he has been brought to the Old Bailey as a witness, and has said be would swear anything that he could get paid for—I heard him called "Lying Tom" in presence of Osborne and Goner, a carpenter and joiner, but not of the foreman—I have seen him take the Scriptures in his hand, and when he came to a place where Christ was named, he would break it off, and say, "We will bum that b----r, and put it into the fire"—Carr and me were present—he tore out a leaf—I have seen him break out the name of Christ's disciples—when he came to a certain part, he would say, "Here is Christ, we will burn him," he would break the portion off, and when he came to the disciples, he would say, "Here are villains, here are some of the scoundrels," and would burn them; but when he came to the name of Judah, he said he was the best fellow of the lot, he did get paid for his job, but he (Powell) would have done it for half the money—I have only seen him burn the paper once—I did not mention this to the attorney who examined me—I did not think of it—it would not have done for me to have told Mr. Smith—I was shocked—I never spent an hour with the man in my life—I continued to work at the next bench to him—I never saw him reading the Scriptures to get any good out of was only to pick out and damage it—I suppose it was his own book—the

leaves were partly missing—it was about five years ago—it may besix—I do not think Carr was present when he spoke of Judah—I cannot tell whether it was summer or winter—I think it was between four and five years ago—there was a fire in the shop—it was breakfast time—we boil the coffee there;—sometimes there were five or six sitting round the fire some times two—Powell and me were the only men that breakfasted in the shop at that time—Carr was present when he spoke about Judah and the disciples—I have heard him express himself about Scripture scores of times, and have told him he ought to be ashamed of himself—Carr might be present—I have never been a Cnartist—I attended meetings at Bishop Boiiner's-fields—I have been to no other Chartist meetings—I have never been to Cartwright's—I never saw him but twice in my life—I never saw the prisoners—I do not know the man's name who found me out—it was a carpenter and joiner worked for Mr. Smith—I have not seen him these three weeks—I should know him if I saw him—he called on me one evening, and told me to go to Dalston, and gave me a card of a boot and shoemaker, whose name I do not recollect—I went—it is in a street in the Queen's-road, just over the bridge—I have lost the card—I saw the man twice—it was a few days or a week after the Chartists were taken—he asked if I knew anything about Powell, and I told him what 1 knew of him—I did not write a letter to the Northern Star—I have lived at 51, Molyncaux-street, Hoxton, three years next March—I have never had any meeting of the witnesses there—I do not know Collins—a man nans Reynolds lived in the house with me, and a man named Rooney, and an old lady who has only been there a few days—I know Thomas Osborne—there is no angry feeling betueen him and me, no more than I discharged him when I was Mr. Hill's foreman—before I went to Mr. Smith's, I worked at St. George's Hospital—I come from Wiltshire—I hive not been in London ever since—I was in Wiltshire and Dorsetshire again, about three years and a half—that was six years ago—I did not know there was going to be a rising in London except from the papers—I heard nothing of the meeting of 15th Aug.—I was not at Cartwright's that night—I have only been there twice in my life—I have never seen Powell there—I dropped in there one Sunday evening for a cup of coffee three years ago, and again last Sunday week—I did not stop there two minutes.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Was it in consequence of your knowledge of Powell's character that you were asked to say what you knew of him? A. Yes—I saw the statement which I made reduced to writing by the master shoemaker, and I put my name to it—I afterwards saw it in the Northern star—that was a statement of all I knew of the character and conduct of Powell except about his being the murderer of his father, but I always thought it was robbery—the conversation about the Scriptures has occurred scores of times. not a day in the week but he would bring it up, but I only saw him burn a portion once—Carr was present once when he said Jesus Christ was a thief and has been there scores of times when he used such expressions—the person who came to me with the card was in Mr. Smith's employ, and a member of the Trades society—I saw by the papers that Powell was a witness—I can not mention half the shopmates that have heard him speak so.

COURT. Q. Where was the book kept that was torn? A. It was part of the New Testament—it was kept in his chest, in the shop—he was not much in the habit of reading the Scriptures—on rhis occasion lie merely took hold of a leaf and said, "See, here is a history of Christ," and so on—I only saw him do it once, but he broke out several portions on the same occasion but when he came to Judas, that betrayed Christ, he would not bum that—sometimes read the Testament of a Sunday, but generally read the newspaper

on a working day—he took out several parts of one leaf, or it may be another leaf—I cannot say how many leaves he broke—he broke up a number of pieces but whether all out of one leaf I cannot say.

ALFRED CARR . I know Thomas Powell well—I worked with him at Mr. Smith's three or four years, part of 1838, 1839, and 1840—I met with him once since, at a coffee-shop—from what I have known of him during that time, I would not believe him on his oath, not a bit of it.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You have only met him once in a coffee-shop for the last eight years? A. It may be seven years—that Was about two years ago (looking at a paper)—1842 was the last time I worked with him—I did not make this paper—I asked a party named Bennett, in Mr. Smith's employ, whether it was right—I do not know whether he was the man who went after Pennell—this "March, 26, '42" means when I left that employ—this "Feb. 9, '40" means when Powell attempted to murder his father—I tad this to refresh my memory—I worked for Powell's father six or seven years ago—I have only worked with Powell at Mr. Smith's—I would not believe him' on his oath, because I have found him out in so many base lies, and he pulled Scripture to pieces so often—he had an old Bible, and would stand up when the shop was a little cleared, and begin reading it, and when he came to particular passages he would say Jesus Christ was a b----, and the Virgin Mary was the biggest w----that ever * * *—it was his continual study to tear the Bible to pieces—I have seen him cull it to pieces—at one time he brought a part of the book of Genesis, picked it to pieces, and pitched it into the fire—I cannot say what it was, or whether our Saviour was mentioned—he said, "God said let us make man," but I cannot swear to the words—he pushed the pieces into the fire and said they would contaminate a bawdy-house—Pennell was not there—I do not think there was any one but me—I do not belong to the Chartists—I was subpoenaed nearly a fortnight ago—directly I had it, I went to Pennell's house—I have seen Powell destroy tools—I never destroyed his or my own, or any of them, or any one else's—this paper was put into my hand about eleven o'clock to-day—I was talking to a party yesterday named Daniels, to refresh my memory—I do not know whether it is his writing—he is here—I had it just to jog my memory, and refer to other little things—I did not hear Pennell examined—I never attended any Chartist meeting—I heard of these meetings in the paper—I have attended no Chartist meetings since 1839, when Powell wanted to betray me—that was in Ship-yard, Templebar, on the first-floor, on the right—I was on good terms with Powell when I left but when you were on good terms with him, it was the very time he going to betray you—after be tried to murder his father, he tried to spite in everything.

MR. METCALFE. Q. What does this "Feb. 9, '40," refer to? A. It was when Mr. Powell died—Powell drew me to the meeting in 1839—he wanted to get me into trouble and leave me in a mess—he has talked about ripping policemen's guts—I attended from four to six meetings—I was never enrolled as a member—I took a card at the Lord Denman in 1839—I did not stay, because 1 found the peaceable way was the best—I was employed to keep the peace on 10th April.

JAMES BENNETT . I know Powell—I worked with him about four years ago—since then I have repaired boots and shoes for him—about 3rd April, 1848, I met him at the National Hall, Holborn—he asked what I intended to do on 10th April—I said I intended to go to Kennington-common—he asked me in what way—I wanted to know what he meant by it—he asked if meant to go armed—I said, "Certainly not; the executive would

have better cause to attack us, and I would advise working-men not to go armed on any account"—he directly said I was a b----fool if I did not go armed.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Were you at the National Hall meeting? A. Yes, and at the Kennington-common meeting and likewise at another at Kennington-common—I was not there on 6th Aug.—I was not aware that there were men stationed at certain distances along the road to give notice at the Dispatch coffee-house, if any disturbance of the peace took place on 6th Aug.—I never heard of it—I was not then myself, I was on 10th April—I attended one meeting at Bonner's-fields—I think it was on a Sunday evening—I was not there till the meeting was over—I think the police broke a few heads that day—I do not know that the police themselves had a few heads broken—I think that was the day the Church was attacked—I did not Lear anybody speak, the meeting was over—I was not at the row—I was not there when the windows were broken—I was there when the police were dispersing the people—I was not present at the trial in this Court of the persons for that disturbance—I did not see the windows broken—I heard of it—I did not see it when I got there, I did go near enough—I was not at the place of meeting—the meeting was dispersed before I got there—I attended one meeting at Clerkenwell—I cannot tell you when it was, I should say it is perhaps three months ago—that was not the night the people walked through London—it was eight or nine days before—I was not at the meeting at Trafalgar-square—I think the meetings I attended were at Bonner's-fields, Kennington-common, and Clerkenwell-green—I was not at above four meetings—I was not in the procession on 29th, I did not see it—I have never been in any procession—I have sat been at any meetings at private houses—I was at Cartwright's on 10th April—I belonged to the Whittington-and-Cat locality, in Church-row, Betbsjl-green—I had no class-leader—I do not know who was the warden of the district—I am not a class-leader—I never had any directions—I have not get; my card—I belong to the National Charter Association—I do not know what you mean by a class-leader—there was no one over me—I believe there was a secretary to the society—his name was Lefevre—I cannot tell you who where the delegates for our locality—I do not know whether there was a delegate—I never had a pike myself; I swear that, or a gun, or pistol, or anythingcf of the sort—I was only at Kennington-common once.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you countenance physical force at all? A. I did not, as a Chartist.

COURT. Q. I think you say Powell asked you whether you intended to go armed to Kennington-common? A. He did; and the reason I did not go armed was, because the notice was not to go armed—if the notice had been to go armed, I certainly should not have gone armed—he told roe at that time whether he should go armed; I am certain of that; and more than that I searched his pockets in Cartwright's, to see that he had no grenades about him, before I went out of the room with him—he said he had been making grenades all the previous Sunday—we had not been talking about cornbastibles—I did not find any grenades in his pocket, or I should not have walked with him, because I should have considered him a very dangersman if he had been armed.

JOHN WESTMORELAND . I am a master tailor, at 75, Watling-street. I am a real out and out moral force Chartist, and have been so for forty years—I think I should recognize Powell if I were to sec him—I did see him here slightly—he is a perfect stranger to me, but I think I could recognize him—I

believe so, from the description of his person and dress given me by the parties attending Cartwright's coffee-shop, who were personally acquainted with him—I just got a glance of him in Court the other day, when I was called in to be recognized—I think he was then standing in the witness-box—that was the very man 1 had seen at Cartwright's—I remember some time ago his coming into the box at Cartwright's where I was sitting—I had very little conversation with him—while he was in the box he sketched this piece of paper (looking at the circular plan produced to Powell) with a pencil—that was the only paper produced at that time—this was his project of organization—I think it might be about two months ago—it might be about the end of July or beginning of Aug., I am not positive—it was before these men were taken into custody—he gave me this sketch at the time he made it, and it appears that I kept it, but I was astonished to find that I had it—I did not know that I had it until I found that he had turned traitor, and then there was an agitation whether I knew the man or not—this is the same piece of paper—I saw him again at Cartwright's, I think about a week after, and he showed me a similar plan, done on a larger sheet of paper—it was very different to this in point of finish—it was highly finished, neatly done, and properly executed, on a beautiful clean sheet of paper—he put it into my hands for a few minutes, and I asked him if he could spare it—he said, "No"—I had no acquaintance with him, and never spoke with him till be came into the box where I was sitting, and sat down by my side, and began to talk about organization.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You have been in the habit of attending Cartwright's pretty much? A., I have for the last four years—I speak there very frequently in the large room—I am a moral force Chartist by all means—I have been a moral force man all my life, not only in chartism but in religion, and everything else—I am not a member of the Irish Felon-club—I am not an Irishman; I was born in Yorkshire—we have discussions at Cartwright's twice a week, Monday and Thursday nights, and sometimes I take part in them—I do not know a man named Carter—I know Mr. Kydd by sight, and by hearing him lecture occasionally—I do not know that he is here—I do not think I know Donaldson—I do not know Fay personally; I may have seen him—I saw an account in the paper of the men being taken at the Orange Tree—I cannot say whether I was at Cartwight's the night before—I am there every night—I go merely for the purpose of looking at the paper, and on discussion nights—I cannot say whether I was there on Tuesday night, the 15th—I have no means of knowing—I do not think I heard of their being taken the same night—I think it was the night after, at Cartwright's—I do not know Mullins—I may have seen him, but not to my knowledge—I do not know him by name—I did not hear talk at Cartwright's of the persons being about to turn out on the Wednesday night—these physical force proceedings were quite foreign to my principles—I did not know that anything of the kind was going on, only from what you say—I took no interest in the movement—I did not know there was a movement—I never gave heed to anything of the kind, but denounced it whenever it came in my way—I have at Cartwright's repeatedly denounced physical force.

Q. I am afraid it was not very well received, although you are a popular orator? A. I do not care about the reception; I spoke the truth—I speak as I feel the conviction of my mind—I do not know whether it was well or "'received; how am I to know?—I never heard any applause—I was not

very popular I must confess, for I was not at all applauded—I have met with persons who were opposed to my doctrines, but they found it was not their while troubling themselves with me on that point—without presumption I hope I am considered by every one that knows me, to be a highly quiet and peaceable man—I was determined to act on nothing but moral force; that was, to get all the people I could on the register-list.

GEORGE THURSTON . I have been out of Court during this trial—I have not been sitting in the gallery; I will take my oath of it—I am a cabinetmaker, and live in Milton-street, City—I know Powell—I have seen him frequently at the coffee-shop in Redcross-street—I saw him about a fortnfe before 16th Aug.—he told me he could sell me a pair of pistols for 6s. I did not see them—I believe he said he bad got them at home—he said he would give me half a pound of powder if 1 took them, but I thought I would have nothing at all to do with them—I am a moral force Chartist, and have been enrolled.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Were you at Cartwright's the night the men were taken up? A. No, I was the night before—there were not a great many persons there, about the number there is generally—I do not know Carter—I am not aware that there were some persons sitting in the back room down the passage—I believe there is such a room—it is a sort of kitchen—I was never there—I will take my oath I never was in this gallery in my life—I beard that there was to be a meeting next day—I did not hear where—I heard nothing said about the Orange Tree—I do not know how many districts there were to be—I never heard about our locality going anywhere—I belong to the Cripplegate locality—I had no class-leader that I am aware of—I have not often been there—I know Gurney—I do not know that he was my warden—I never spoke to him—I do not know that there was a warden at all—it was on Tuesday evening, the 15th, that I heard talk of there being a meeting next day; I was in at Cart-wright's, and 1 heard there was going to be a something, I did not know what it was—I know Fay—I saw him there that night—I do not know whether Johnson was there or not—I was at home on the Wednesday night—I did not go to Cartwright's—I was not out at all on Wednesday.

Q. Did you attend any of the open-air meetings? were you at the meeting at Kennington-common? A. On 10th April, I heard there was a meeting there, and I took a walk there like any one else—I did not form in procession to come from that meeting—I went to one in Bishop Bonner's-fields, I think on Whit-Monday, but 1 saw there was a great quantity of police there, and I walked back again—that was the only other meeting I went to—I do not remember another meeting at Kennington-common on Sunday—I have heard say that Johnson went by two or three names, but I was not acquainted with any name besides Johnson.

MR. PARNELL. Q. Did you see a number of nags and banners at the meeting at Kennington-common on 10th April? A. I did—(looking at the one found at Cuffey's) I do not remember seeing that there.

THOMAS POWELL re-examined by MR. PARRY. I do not think I ever saw that man before in my life—(looking at Henry Green) may I be allowed to make a remark: I was in such a state of exhaustion after my examination having been in the witness-box eight hours, that at the latter part 1 scarcely knew what questions you put to me—I was in such a state, bodily and mentally, that I was really not myself—I have been at meetings at Birdcage-walk—I do not remember whether I was there on Sunday,—23rd April last

it is very likely I may have been—I do not remember at any meeting about that time busying myself in asking questions among the parties present—I do not remember saying to Green, "Have you got any arms?" or his saying, "No, that he did not know the use of them"—I have no recollection of saving to him, "You are not worth a d----as a Chartist, unless you have got arms"—I will not swear I did not say that to him, I might have said such a thing—I do not know whether I then went among the crowd and asked others the same questions—I will not swear I did not.

HENRY GREEN . I am a ship felt-maker. I am a Chartist—I know Powell—I remember a meeting held on Sunday, 23rd April last, at Birdcage-iralk, Bonner's-fields—I saw Powell there—I was in conversation with two other gentlemen, I believe two weavers, and Powell came and asked me whether I was provided to obtain my rights—I asked what he meant—he asked whether I was possessed of arms—I told him I was not possessed of any except what I had on my body—Powell then said I had no right to speak a word about the Charter, unless I was possessed of arms, and determined to maintain my rights—he asked me if I had got a pistol first, and then if I had a sword—I said I had not—he then asked where my residence was—I did not tell him—he said, "You are not worth a d----as a Chartist, unless you have got arms"—I told him if he said anything more to me about those sort of arms, I would get out of the society altogether—he then left me—I did not see him go among the crowd—I saw no more of him that day.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. What locality do you—belong to? A. I belong to no locality; I am a Chartist, but I have not been possessed of a Chartist card, or belonged to any locality, since the night I and Powell joined the Wat Tyler Brigade—that is' the only night I was in his company, and he knows that perfectly well—I am not acquainted with the exact night, but it was some time after 23rd April—I had often been to Cartwright's at my meal-times, but I never joined in the locality there—the Wat Tyler Brigade used to be held at a beer-shop at Hoxton, but it is broken up—I do not know the sign of the house—I remember the night the parties were apprehended—I was at Cartwright's that night with Powell, and went along with him up part of Golden-lane, and he showed me the arms he was possessed of, and asked whether I would tell him where I lived—I am speaking of the 16th—I went with him as far as the top of Old-street-road—he showed me part of a sword, and said, "You see I am prepared for the Government, and if you tell me where you live, I will bring you a dagger?"—he had seen me the night before in Old-street-road: Fay was not there—I was at Cartwright's the night before, but did not see Fay there, I do not know whether he was there or not, but I never saw him—I may have seen him, bat not to swear to him—(looking at the prisoners) I believe I know every one of these gentlemen on looking at them, but before you told me their Dames, I did not know them—I did not see any of them at Cartwright's on the night of 15th—I do not know Abel—it was the night before the Chartists were apprehended, that Powell spoke to me—he did not ask rue to go to the Orange Tree—he asked me whether I was prepared to come out and fight at eight o'clock that night—this was before the committee was postponed, before the case was postponed—I do not know when the case was postponed to; he did not tell me, but he said it was postponed for that night—I met him twice that night, first about a quarter to six, as I was going home, and again between eight and nine, when he told me it was postponed till the next night

at nine precisely—he told me that as I was not possessed of any arms, I must either join the Seven Dials or the Tower Hamlets party, as there were several gun-shops that were to be broken into, and there I might provide myself with arms—he did not tell me where I was to get gunpowder—I had no leader but Powell—I believe he was the chief leader that I knew anything at all about—the Tower Hamlets and Seven-dials would have been strange places to me, but according to what he told me, I was only to mix up with the mob that was to be assembled there to get what arms I could—I went home to my bed along with my wife the night the fire was to take place—I am a regular physical force man, but I would rather be at home with my wife than fighting—I did not say I was a regular physical force man, because I opposed Powell's motion as to physical force—I should have been on the committee, only for opposing Powell as a physical force man—I did not hear other persons besides Powell talk of the meeting that was to take place on the Wednesday—I did not listen to any one, and did not inquire—I had the advice of men before me, who knew very well what the case was, and I took their advice, and took care that no man should ensnare me—it was nothing else but reading the Northern Star that led me to be what Iwas—I was determined not to be ensnared—although Powell tried all he could, be never could find out ray residence—he asked me three nights running before the job was to take place, where my residence was, that he might provide me with arms.

Q. Then the job was to take place? A. I do not know that: that was Powell's assertion—there were not many persons at Cartwright's the night before the Chartists were taken; not when I was there—I believe I was there the firs time about a quarter-past six o'clock, and the last time about a quarter-pal eight, and I do not think there were more than seven or eight—I do not know Payne or Carter; I know Cuffey perfectly well—I did not see his there; I have never seen him at Cartwright's—the only time I have ever seen him was at the institution, in John-street—I only recollect seeing; Lacey once in my life, and where that was I cannot recollect—I believe I have seen Fay several times, but where I cannot recollect.

DANIEL BYRNE . I did reside at 8, Willow-gardens, Shoreditch, but have shifted from there—I now reside at 1, Charlotte-place, Charlotte-street, Willow-walk—I am a sofa-maker—I am a Chartist—I know Powell; I have seen him at Bryant's coffee-house, Wyndharn-street, Finsbnry-square; at Cartwright's, and at Milton-street Theatre—about the beginning of April last he was in the habit of coming to Bryant's coffee-house, and occasionally entering into conversation with the working men there—on the morning of 10th April he showed me a pistol, ontsise the door, in the street, and asked me if I was prepared—he said he was going prepared—I said I was not, and did not intend to take such things he—he did not say what he was going to do with it—I have repeatedly heard him say he would assassinate the police and set fire to the houses in London; that was before or after April; but I cannot recollect dates—at the latter end of April, or the beginning of May, Powell showed me two pistols in Tabernacle-square, between ten and eleven o'clock at night—I only saw the muzzles—we were talking together, and he pulled them out to show me that he was prepared—he was continually urging me to be prepareu—he said he wished to see all the police assassinated, and to have some good fires in London—I afterwards went with him to the Milton-street Theatre—I had formed the opinion that he was a dangerous man, and

went to inform persons of that—it was on 28th July—I saw him at the back of the platform, speaking to Mullins, Rose, Shaw, and several others—I cautioned them of him.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL,. Q. Where do you live? A. 1, Charlotte-place, Charlotte-street, Willow-walk—I did live at 8, Garden-row—I never said it was No. 19—I am a Chartist, but am opposed to violence entirely—I agree with the six points of the Charter, but not in the sense that the press of this country represents it to be—I go to meetings occasionally, but always leave when I hear violent language—I was at Kennington-common, but did not go with arms—I understand others did, which was quite against the instructions—I saw two parties give up their arms on the common, when they were ordered by they executive—there were some delegates to the Convention, who were strangers to me—it was proposed that persons who had arms had Better give them up, as it was against the instructions; and they did so instantly—there was a caution issued before the meeting that they should not go armed—I have attended several meetings since—I was at Bonner's-fields on Whit-Monday—I was not there on the day of the collision with the police—I was at Clerkenwell and Finsbury-square, but did not walk in the procession—I did not go to New Holborn when I left Finsbury-square; I went into Bryant's coffee-bouse, and was there reading the newspaper—I am an unenrolled Chartist—there are a great many enrolled, and a great many unenrolled—I do not belong to any association at present; I did belong to Dean-street as months ago—I had no class-leader there; I have heard of such a thing, bat do not know the fact—I am a land-member—I am not in the least, shaken in it—I am prepared to pay in as much as I can get—I am satisfied with what money I have paid in; I have paid 32s.—I entered for a fonr-acre share; that is 5l. 8s., but being out of work for a length of time I have not paid the remainder—I have not been to Kennington-common again, as I was stopped going to my residence by the police, at Blackfriars-bridge—I was caught in the trap—I consider I had a right to go over the bridge—I cannot mention all the meetings I have been to since—if I was aware, I would have had notes to meet your questions—I could bring a great deal against Powell if I had been prepared—there are many things I have heard that I cannot bring to bear, and shall not attempt to specify—I was not at Cartwright's on the 15th—I have been there to have a cup of coffee occasionally—I have known the house two years—I live in Drury-tone, and work in Mark-street, Fore-street—I was in the habit of going there—I was not there the night the people were apprehended, or the night before—on the 16th, as far as I recollect I was at work in the day time, and went to the Magnet, in Drury-lane, to have a cup of coffee, and heard they were taken the same night—the people said they were taken to Bow-street—it is about twelve months since I have done any work for Mr. Hill—since that, I have been jobbing about, doing a little on my own account—I worked for Mr. Hill nearly two years—before that I worked for Mr. Murray and Mr. Holland—I have just made a sofa-bedstead to order on my own account—I have two rooms—I do not know Burn, who is in custody—I have known Powell since the latter end of March, or the beginning of April—it was before the 10th April—I did not know him before he used to go to want's coffee-house—I did not know him before March—I always knew mm by the name of Powell, and never heard him answer to any other name, but when I cautioned Mullins, on 28th July, at Milton-street, to be careful of him he said, "That is not Powell, that is Johnson"—I said, "I deny it, his name is Powell "—he stood right opposite, and did not say a word.

WILLIAM GARDNER . I am a carpenter, of 39, Ashley-street, Hoxton. I am not a Chartist, or a member of any Chartist Association—I knew Powell who worked at Mr. Smith's between six and seven years—I know the reputation he bears, and certainly should not believe him on his oath.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You have not known him for six or seven years? A. No; I have met him once or twice in the street, and walked with him a few yards, as he was going to his work and I was going to mine—I never heard him examined on his oath; I would not believe him on his oath, from the reputation he bore in the shop as a man guilty of lying, and different circumstances which have taken place in the shop; I was on my guard that he was a notorious storyteller—I have heard him say that the Bible was a tissue of falsehoods, openly, in the shop—Carr was there, and Pennell, and a young man named Webster—Paris was not foreman-while 1 was there—he seemed to be acquainted with the Scriptures, from mentions: 'different instances; but I do not consider myself a judge—I should not consider him better read in Scripture than me; perhaps as well—he explained incidssa and circumstances which I was not familiar with before, by comparing one portion of Scripture with another portion to contrast it—I took no notice of it, but kept on with my work—he did it offhand, without the book, from his apparent knowledge of the subject—I have never been a Chartist—I was subpoenaed by a man who I do not know—I do not know how they found me out; I made no communication since my deposition was taken by Mr. Roberts, about a week since—I went to him—he was a perfect stranger to me till then—he came to my house, and I went with him to his cbambers-Nicholls went with me—I had not seen Pennell on the subject.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. What was Powell called in the shop? A. I knew him by the sobriquet of "Lying Tom"—that was used in his presence and hearing—I have heard an apprentice call him so—he would say, "It is nonsense, Lying Tom, I won't believe you "—I have beard little Jack say so to his face.

HENRY WATSON . I am a bricklayer, of 5, Garden-court, Hoston Old Town. I have known Powell from his boyhood up to this time, except losing sight of him for about two years, thirteen or fourteen years ago—I went to school with him—from what I know of him, and of the reputation he bears, I would not believe him on his oath.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You have not worked with him in the shop? A. No, but I have worked at jobs with him—I have not heard him examined, or make any statement on his oath—I have heard. him swear that if he had his will, he would pull his b----y old father out of his grave, arid strew his b----y old bones about the street, for not leaving him the money—he swore that Lord John Russell had cut his throat—that was at the bench, and I heard it—he said, "Lord John Russell, by God, has cut his throat"—I said, "I don't believe you, you are such an infernal liar"—that is what I call swearing, if a man says, "by God"—I considered he was perjuring himself by saying that—one day he said the Duke of Wellington was dead—he came in once, and said, "I was with a woman, and told her Mr. Donald had dropped down dead; won't his old woman be in a way when she goes home and tells her?"—one morning he said, "Harry, We are going to Kennington-common"—I said, "What is there to do there?"—he said, "There is a general rising there, I shall go armed to it"—I said I should not—he said, "You are not doing your duty as a man if you do not; you can get a little short knife; get it ground up; and the first policeman that strikes you, stick it into his belly, and he won't give you another stroke"—I

cannot remember any other reason for not believing him—I did not go to Kennington-common, to any of the meetings—I signed a paper, which was put into the Northern Star—it was to have been given to the prisoner's Counsel—an individual I did not know left a bit of paper, saying that I was to so to a street in the Queen's-road, Dalston, I went there to a master bootmaker, I do not know his name, but I can take any one there—the paper said he wanted me in a case that Powell had been doing—the master shoemaker wrote the paper, but be made a mistake in the date, and made me a carpenter—I did not discover that till I signed it—I did not read it before I signed it—he read it over, but did not read my profession—the date was put on it, but I forget it—Gill and Nicholls came to me to go to Mr. Roberts—I suppose they are bis clerks, by the questions they asked me.

CHARLES GOODFELLOW . I am a tailor, of 5, Half-alley, Buckingham-street, Strand. I work for Mr. Taylor, of Dow-court, Old Jewry—I am a Chartist in principle—I believe the principles of the people's charter to be correct, and from conviction I am a Chartist—I am not connected with clubs or associations, and have not been for five or six years—I am not enrolled now—I was once—I knew Powell in the Chartist agitation in 1839 by attending many of the meetings—on the Monday night previous to the arrest, he came into the Coach and Horses, High Holborn, with another man while I was sitting there—he nodded to me, I returned it; he came across, and said, "Well, have you got any work now?"—I said, "No"—he asked if I would make him a coat, as he and another who were going to Australia wanted some clothes made, and he could give them me to do if I could make them as cheap as he could buy them at a shop—I agreed to make them, and he gave me half-a-crown to come to the Orange Tree on Wednesday, between five and six o'clock, to measure him for a coat, when he would give me the money to purchase the cloth, as I said I could not do so, for I had not got it—I got there about half-past five, I was not particular to five or ten minutes, and saw the police going round, across Red Lion-square—Powell knew me by sight, I cannot say whether he did by name.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You saw the police running across the square, were you in the square at the time? A. Yes, I could see Orange-street, but not the Orange Tree—I went on, and waited outside the Orange Tree, according to my appointment—I was to have gone in, but did not, because the police went in and shut the door, and would not let any one in—I spoke to no policeman—I spoke to persons there, but cannot name any one—I waited about twenty minutes to see what was the matter, and found out that they took some men away, but I did not know what for—I went in the evening to the Dean-street locality, because I had been in the habit of going there—I am an unenrolled Chartist, a Chartist in principle—I have attended the meetings—I found many persons at Dean-street, but not so many as usual—I do not know who they were, I am not acquainted "with their names—it was a public meeting, and I went to it—there was talk there' of the people being taken up—I cannot say whether I went straight there from the Orange Tree—I went alone—I went home first to have my tea—I staid at home half an hour—I did not leave anything at home—I went to Dean-stoet, and then wrote a letter, stating what I had seen there, because I was endeavoured to be entrapped—I found it was a plot laid against me—I wrote it, in case that, after coming home from the meeting, anything should be done to briny me into the plot; that it should be seen how I was served—I Destroyed it the day after, because it was of no use then—I did not know that I should not be taken up then, but I did not want to have any more to

do with it, I thought I would not have any connection with it, any more whatever, because I felt convinced it would be hurtful to me even to come here tell this statement, and I thought I should have no further use for it—I wrote it on the impulse of the moment, and felt I had no further necessity for it when I came to consider my own actions—I found a party had been inquiring for me, and wanted to speak to me on this trial—I had my work to attend to and could not support my wife and children, unless I attended to it, last Monday I met a man who I do not know—he gave me a subpoena to come here—I did not offer myself, not to that party—I said when I found I was wanted, I would come forward rather than see the men sacrificed—I was at Kennington-common meeting, but not at Clerkenwell, or Finsbury-square, or when they marched round London—I have been at meetings at Bonner'-fields—I have been at Dean-street three or four times—I know Barry—I was not at a meeting when a paper was read, "To hell with the Queen"—I did not hear Crowe speak or Looney—I do not know whether the people that met at Dean-street were Chartists or Confederates—they talked of the affairs of both Irish and English—I saw Cuffey outside the door at the meeting at Dean-street on the Kith Aug., not in the meeting—I did not see him lock the door—I did not stay till the meeting ended—he was there two or three minutes—I did not speak to him—I had known him three, four, or five years—I hare never seen Fay or Lacey—Cartwright's was my place—I was at home on the night of the 15th—I did not go to Cartwright's, or Dean-street, or to any; meeting—the last time I was at Cartwright's before the 16th, was one Sunday night, about three weeks before this arrest—I do not know Carter, or Gill by name, nor Donaldson—the only public meetings I have been to, are Kenning-ton-common and Bonner's fields—I have attended public meetings, Anti-Con law, Poor-law, and so forth, but none since 10th April, except Cartwrigii's—a meeting was called by one of the speakers at Cartwright's, inviting parties to come forward and join the association, and by doing so they would be benefiting the cause of the Irish Confederation, and those who did not join they considered ought not to mix themselves up with the affair, unless they brought members—Dwaine was there—I got up, and asked if their object was peaceable, legal, and constitutional—the consequence was that I was cried down by the parties—Powell, who was there, said, "That is a b----y moral-force coward"—he pointed me out, cried me down, and those that were in connection with him—three or four made themselves very busy—about 100 were there—I do not know their names, they were strangers, I never made it my business to ask names, because I was suspected, not being a member, of being at different meetings to be inquisitive—I cannot say whether it was 4th Aug.—it was on a Sunday, a fortnight or three weeks before the arrest—I do not know Mullins, Dowling, Rose, Payne, or Bassett.

WILLIAM JOHN GARRETT . I am a shoemaker, of 14, Linton-place, Edgeware-road. I am a Chartist—I know Barrett—I saw him on Tuesday evening, 15th Aug., about dusk—he wanted me to go to Seven Dials—he showed me a pistol and a lot of cartridges, and said he had been engaged all day making ball-cartridges—I declined to go with him.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. To what division do you belong? A. To Marylebone—we meet at the Coachmakers' Arms—I have been a A. Chartist about thirty years—I attend puplic meetings, as well as at the localities—I know Cuffey—I do not know where he lives—I was not at Cartwright's—I went to Kennington-common with William New—I was at Dean-street one evening, twelve months ago—I was not at any of the meet-ings at Bishop Bonner's-fields—I do not know Breadons or Shouldham-street

or Clerkenwell—I mistake, I was at Clerkenwell at the first meeting that was ever held—it was five months ago—there was no procession then—I never attended any procession—I cannot exactly say who I heard speak at Clerkenwell—I think it was Sharpe, the man who is convicted, I suppose—on Wednesday evening, 16th Aug., I was at home—I was not out of the house Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday—I attended no committee, or anything else—I am not a member or warden of any committee—I have taken no office—I never attended a Confederate meeting—the Confederates very seldom come down to the Chartists—I think it is three months since I attended a Chartist meeting—on 10th April I was stopped by the police, at the bridge, as I was coming to London—there were not many of us—we went into a public-house to get some refreshment, close to Kennington-common, about three o'clock—there were only four or five in my company—when we got to the bridge we were stopped by the police—several persons went into that house to have refreshment—I was not in a crowd of many thousands—I and my friend could not pass the bridge—we left Westminster, and went to see if we could pass over Vauxhall-bridge—I only knew New, there were people coming from the meeting—I do not know who was with me—I never did—I knew they were Chartists, but did not know what locality they belonged to—I called them. friends, because they were acquaintances of the meeting—I had been with them to the meeting—there were several thousands there—I staid there about an hour before I went for refreshment—we waited to hear the result of the national petition—I cannot tell who was in the chair—I was on the opposite side of the Common—New was the principal person I went with—there were several others belonging to our locality—we met at the locality first, about ten in the morning, and then went to Kennington-common—Thacker was with us, I do not know the name of any other—there might be twenty there—we did not march together—we walked—we did not go in procession—we went three or four abreast, and arrived about eleven o'clock—a great many of them left the locality before me—we stood round when we got to the Common—we were on the opposite side to the Horns for some time, and then went to a public-house in the neighbourhood—four persons went with me for refreshment, no more—I do not know what became of the other sixteen—I can read—I had seen printed bills, before the meeting, warning all persons not to attend—I cannot say that I saw them as we walked from the locality three or four abreast—I did not see bills all about the houses, to my knowledge—I had seen them before, and determined to go notwithstanding—I saw no one armed there—I did not have a struggle with the police to pass Westminster-bridge, nor did any of ray party—we never interfered with them by word or act—I endeavoured to go over Vauxnall-bridge, and found it blockaded with police—we did not go as far as Vauxhall, but I was informed so by persons we met—we did not turn back, it came on raining very hard, and we went and had a pot or two of beer, down by the side of the Thames—the four did not go with me—I lost them—there was a class-leader to my locality—if I am obliged to answer, I think it was a man named Taprell—I think there were nine men under his control—I cannot tell you who the different officials were, for I did not attend regularly—I did not see Taprell on 10th April—he did not come to the locality—I fell in with the procession somewhere about Red Lion-street—that was some-where about one of the places appointed—I think I fell in with it, at the place appointed—I did not want to be told where to meet, as I was at the locality on the Sunday night before—I had no particular orders—I had no further orders than to be there, to attend the meeting before ten—an order was

issued, it may be by the class-leader, that we were not to go armed—there might be six or seven class-leaders besides Taprell, I cannot tell you exactly—I cannot tell the names—my locality consisted of sixty or seventy—I have known men to be delegated—the last delegate appointed was Mr. Savage—I do not know whether he went to Kennington-common with us, I did not see him that day at all—I knew the delegates from other men, because I knew them personally—I do not recollect their names—I knew them at the time—I do not think I ever had the rules of the locality—I have not got them, I do not think I ever had them—I do not think I could have had them and forgotten them—I never did have them—there were not fifty or sixty people assemble at the locality on 10th April—there were not more than twenty, and those I lost before I got to Holborn, as they walked so fast, I could not walk with them—when I joined the procession, we went arm-in-arm—New walked with me, but I lost my locality, and do not know what locality I got into—they were entire strangers to me—I did not know them, or where they came from—I do not think that locality had banners—I saw the banner of my own locality—I cannot inform you what was on it—I did know—I do not think we had above one or two—I was never at a public meeting where banners were displayed, except on 10th April—I do not think I was—I have not often attended public meetings—I cannot tell you who carried the banner, because I was not with my locality—it was not opened in the room—Abraham Dodd was our secretary—I never saw tickets referring to a house in Hatton-garden, where a man might buy a pike, gun, or pistol, cheap—I do not know the number of the house—I never heard of such a place and never saw such a card in our locality, or any other, or in any Chartist's hands—I never saw such a thing before—our warden was named Crispin—whether there was another, I do not know—I never saw this card of the London Life and Property Protection Society before (produced)—I was never at the Orange-Tree, orthe Angel—I first heard the men were taken into custody, a few days after they were taken—I do not know a coffee-shop in Charles-street, Hatton-garden—I did not see the wardens on the morning of 10th April—the best part of the people were gone when I arrived at the locality, I got there late—there were not above twenty went away with me—we all arrived late—we heard as we went along that the others had gone before us—that might be the majority of the locality, fifty or sixty—I went on with the rear, about twenty, and then I lost before I got to Tottenham-court-road.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Had you arms with you on that occasion? A. No—I have never had arms in my possession from the commencement to the conclusion.

MR. BALLANTINE to GEORGE DAVIS. Q. Have you ever sold guns? A. Yes—I have sold two within the last six months—I have sold no pikes or pistols—I know a person named John Stanton, formerly a policeman of the R division—I did not press him to join the Wat Tyler locality of Chartists at Greenwich—I never asked him to do so—I never offered to sell him a pike fur 3s. 6d., or at all, or any others—I did not offer him a brace of pistols—I had a brace of pistols to sell for 12s.; not my property—I do not recollect that I offered to sell them to him directly, I have offered to sell them to anybody for 15s.—I gave 12s. for them—I have been asked the price of them. and have asked 15s.—I may have offered to sell them in his presence—I am boot-maker, but I keep a broker's shop, and deal in second-hand books as well—I am a general dealer in everything, old books, shoes, furniture, or anything that is for sale—I attend sales—I bought the guns at a sale at Mr. Toolins'—I am not a marine-store dealer—I did not say I had powder and

shot and could supply Stanton with it, neither powder nor shot, not to any one nothing of the kind—I never told Stanton if he would buy them he could pay so much a week in the best manner he could—I was attending Chartist meetings at the time I offered the pistols for sale—I never told Stanton the police Intended to arrest all the Chartists, and he had better have a pike to defend himself—I have had very little conversation with him—I did not tell him the police intended to arrest all or any of the Chartists—I never advised him to have a pike—I never had but two guns, two swords, and a pair of pistols, in my possession—I have got one old sword at home now—I have not shown them to a great number of the labouring classes—they are exposed for sale in the shop, and the pistols I have got now—I never said, while they were lying on the counter, to different people, that I wished I had a place where they could practise firing them, that they might serve out the b----blue devils—I understand Stanton once met me coming-out of the police-station at Blackheath hill, I did not see him—he did not speak to me—he never has done so, I am certain—I did not tell him I had been there to repair the inspector's boots—I have called and showed one person a pair of boots I had to repair for the inspector, but not at the time he said I came out of the station-house—I know Joseph Munday—he might be present when I tried to sell a musket to a man named Sheedey—I did not hear Munday persuade him not to buy it—I did not turn round and say Munday ought to be ashamed of himself, as he knew the Chartists were arriving in London—I never made use of the expression—I saw Munday at the Druids' Arms in June, I do not remember any particular night—he is a Chartist and a Confederate—I offered to sell him a brace of pistols for 16s., having a pair to dispose of—I cleaned them, having served for years to the gun-making trade—I was to give 12s. for them, whether I sold them or not—he wanted to buy a pair, I offered him them for 16s., he thought it too much; and I told him who I bought them of, and how much I was to give for them—I never said they were good ones to fire—I never let them off—he did not ask me if they were good ones to fire, and I did not say I should like to have the b----old Duke of Wellington before me to try them—he refused to buy them at 16s.—when the Duke of Wellington has been blamed, in the Druids' Arms, as a bad general, I have supported him—I know Henry Heath—he carries on business, in the same street with me—I had a room in his house—I left about 4s. or 6s. rent owing, but I left two tea-caddies or work-boxes as security for it till I could recover myself—it was between six and seven years ago—I swear there was not 3l. 4s. owing, or 1l.—there was nothing in the tea-caddies, to my knowledge—he afterwards agreed to keep them for the amount I owed him—one was brass-bound—I did not call on him, I to my knowledge, about twelve months ago, and ask him to help me in forming a Chartist club in Greenwich, for it was formed before—I swear I never asked him, or any other man, to join a Chartist club—I may have asked him to come up to the meeting for the benefit of the landlord, that is all—I may have asked 100 or 150 to do so in the course of my time—I swear I have not asked 500—I think Heath declined; I am not certain—I never saw him there—I do not know that he refused—I will not say he refused, or said he would come—he never did come—my interest or the landlord was because he was a young and inexperienced man from the country, when he took the house it cost him more money than the house was worth, and I knew it, and took it in hand to get customers for the house; and if a deputation came down from London, I considered they should have their Private meetings there—I secreted myself, heard their conversation, and

reported to Mr. Mallilaew, the superintendant of police, what was being formed in the town—he advised that the meetings should be allowed to be held as long as nothing was going on—he said he would send policemen there, and he did—I did not advise the people to come to the meeting—I took people there for the landlord's benefit, as the house was doing nothing—the persons applied to the landlord for the room, but not in my presence—the landlord has paid me for soliciting custom to the house—I was paid for my friendship if I wanted half-a-sovereign or five shillings, the landlord has given it—there was no stipulated mode of payment—I never showed Heath some and said I brought them down from London, and was going to take them to the Druids' Arms—he did not say that no sensible man would talk in that way—I never begged him to go to the Druids' Arms, as he would there hear arguments that would convince him—I only advised him or any one to go for the sake of what they would spend on the landlord, and not for any good to the;. selves—I did not say they would benefit by the speeches—I considered just the contrary—I do not know that it would do them harm—the speeches. I am confident, would do nobody any good—I do not particularly remember the birth of Her Majesty's last child—I did not allude to it to Heath—I never used any disrespectful expressions about that child to him—I never said to him, "Now you will see what we can do, we shall soon all be ready," or words to that effect—I told him I had joined the Chartists—I did not say I was one—Heath was not a Chartist—I do not believe he ever attended any meeting, for the benefit of the landlord, or any other party—I know parish—I do not know his Christian name—I do not know that I told him I had got up a Chartist association at Greenwich—he is a Chartist—he belonged to it before I did—I never told him so—I told him I had bought two guns at a sale, and had got them cheap, which I had—I did not say, "You shall have them cheap, as guns are wanted"—I said I had bought them cheap, and should sell them cheap—I did not say "As guns were wanted"—I saw his on 16th Aug., on Blackheath-hill, between one and two o'clock—I may have said, "You are the very man I want to see," or something to that effect—he said, "What's up? "or something to that effect—I believe I said that was the night the blow was to be struck—I did not ask him if he would come up—I asked him to wait at the Druids' Arms till I came down from London at eight o'clock—he was then going to his dinner—that was to keep him out of mischief—I did not put my hand to my breast and say, "I am ready" nothing of the kind—I never carried any thing in my breast-pocket—I thought you inferred I had something there, that is why I say that—I know William Robinson of 1, Green's-cottages, Skilton-street—I did not see him on Sunday 9th April, to my knowledge—I saw him the Thursday before—I will not be certain whether that was the last time I saw him before the 10th, for I was ill at the time—I did not then propose to him a meeting at the Druids'Arms on the following Tuesday—I did afterwards—I did not belong to the Charts then, and did not know what their principles were—I did not offer him a pair of pistols to go up with to the meeting that was to be held on Whit-Monday—I offered him a pair of pistols, or any one else who would buy them for 16s.—they were in my window—I carried them with me when I went to the meeting have never offered them for sale—I took them to the meeting, I have told them of them, but never offered them—I carried them in my breeches pocket loaded both in one pocket—they were pocket-pistols—they are at Greenwich—I did not succeed in selling them—I would have, if I could—I told the Jury yesterpay or the day before that I needed them for my protection—if I had sold them 1 should have brought another pair for my protection, and got some

thing for profit—I should have taken the chance in the meantime—I do not Remember telling Robinson I had been a witness in the County Court at Greenwich, it was well known—it was an action for assault—I know John Ward—he is a farrier, or smith—I never asked him to attend Chartist meetings—he is leader of the Confederates—I never told him physical force was the best thing—I never advised it to anybody—I told him, for the sake of his family, to be careful what he was about, in case he should get into trouble—I never advocated physical force—I knew the man, and did not wish to see him throw himself away—I knew if he said anything I should report it—I did not say to him "Physical force is the only thing," or words to thai effect—I believe I asked him on Whit-Monday if he was going to the meeting at Bonner's-fields—I did not tell him I was going armed, or advise him to go armed; I advised him to stop at home—I told him I was going, but it was not worth his while to lose his work to go to the meeting, and he had better stop at home—I did not get up a raffle for arms—the pistols were attempted to be raffled, but they were not, because I returned the money—I originally proposed it, but there was not a paper drawn—there were to be sixteen shilling chances—a person named Brewerton gave me 1s., that was the only one, I returned it him, as it never came to a raffle—it was at my shop—I told Ward, and a good many people, there was to be an outbreak in London—that was to keep them away—I told them to keep away, for they would never get the day—I told Ward and Sheedey so—I did not tell Ward I was going to reconnoitre the town, or examine the town, to ascertain the point of attack; nothing of the kind—I said I would get up early with Bligh, to see if there was a chance of a riot taking place, and if there was, we would get out of danger—that was why I went to Bonner'sfields—Robinson very likely saw me tear the covers off some old books, I do not remember his seeing it—I said I should give them to Blagden, the landlord of the Druids' Arms, for wadding, as he was going into the country to shoot—I do not remember whether that was to Ward or Robinson—I dare say Blagden could show you the best part of it now—I recollect Ward and Robinson proposing to dissolve the association—I cannot tell you the date—it was on a Sunday evening in July or Aug.—it was through a speech made by Bligh—I opposed it—I never addressed a meeting in my life—I merely said in private conversation with three of us, "Why should you wish to break the meeting up?"—Bligh commenced it by asking the members to support Looney's wife, and said the club would receive their money—I opposed a dissolution, because I thought it would injure the landlord if the trade was to go away from the house—I did not say they were a parcel of cowards, to my recollection—I cannot remember every word that took place three months back—I may have made use of the word coward on account of being frightened at Bligh's stating that the officers of the club were ready to receive subscriptions for the support of Looney's family—I used the word "coward" to prevent them dissolving the club—the club broke up then, notwithstanding my calling them cowards—I did not then pull out my pistols and say if anybody attempted to take me I would blow their brains out; never in my life—I had not the pistols with me—I never said what 1 would do if anybody had a disposition to arrest me—nothing was said about arresting, or attempting to arrest, to my knowledge—I do not believe I said if anybody attempted to arrest me, I would blow their brains out—to the best of my knowledge I never made use of the term—I do not believe I said it—I have used a great many expressions—I cannot swear it—I possibly made use of the expression—it was merely to throw them off their guard, but I forget it if I did-there are not billiards at the Druids'

Arms; there is bagatelle and dominoes—I played every night, or nearly so—very seldom for money, but for liquor—sometimes there was a bet on it.

MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Did you, from time to time, report to Inspector Marks what had occurred at the Druids' Arms, as well as other places? A. I did; it was taken down by him; I signed it—I have carried on the business of a broker and shoemaker near on twelve months—I was a shoemaker when I had a room at Heath's, seven years ago—I was not well off when I went there but through working early and late I saved 2s. or 3s., and got the shop—I only went in with two or three shillings—I have been thriving since—I have been at the shop seven years next April—it was at a sale three months ago of Mr. Toolm's, a large auctioneer in London-street, Greenwich, that I bought the gun, pistols, and sword—I bought the two guns and sword for 4s. 6d., and the pistols for 12s.—I did not have the old iron sword at the sale that was bought at the Druids' Arms—they were at my door and window for sale and were sold in three or four days—Stanton was formerly a policeman-! did not know him as one—I have known him four or five years—Le came to see people that worked for me, and told me he was one—that was before the time I had conversation with him—he was not a Chartist to my knowledge then—I believe he is not now, but they would not let him work as asssistant grave-digger at the parish church if he went into that house—he is assistant grave-digger, merely a jobber—Munday is a Chartist, and I believe a Confederate, but I will not be certain; he is a shoemaker—Heath is not a Chartist, he keeps a shop now; he did not when I first lived with him—he is a boot-closer—there is a little animosity between Wright, who works for me, and him, because Wright had a boy apprenticed to him—Parish is a Chartist and Confederate, I have known him, I suppose about a month—he is a blacksmith, working for Mr. Mackie at Blackheath-hill—Robinson is a shoemaker, and a very violent Chartist—Bligh made a very violent speech at a meeting, and at the conclusion called on the persons present to contrite to the support of the wife and family of Looney, who is in confinement, and said the officers of the club were ready to receive the money, and his fried Mr. Ward—Ward was a Chartist and Confederate—he had a good situation in Greenwich, in constant work, and he thought by being called an officer of the club, he should be arrested and loose his work, and his family would be starving—he found fault with Bligh for using that term, knowing there was no club formed, and Bligh said, "You know there is no club, you cannot be hurt for it;" and I said, "You must be cowards to leave it in that way"—the club was never dissolved—some kept away, and some came—no officers were appointed to the club—we used to meet and read the newspapers, and sometimes make a speech, but Bligh was the principal spokesman, with the exception of when Looney came down from London—he came several times, and other persons—M'Manus, and the two Barry's, and Bailey, were there—those are all the names I recollect—they were Confederates, I understand, from the Davis Club—Looney was not at Greenwich, to my knowledge, when the people walked round the town, he might have been the Sunday before.

JOHN STANTON . I am a labouring man. I was fomerly a policeman of the R division—I have known Davis for the last two years—about three months ago, he asked me to join the Wat Tyler Division of Chartists at Greenwich—he offered to sell me a pike—head for 2s. 6d., and handle it for 3s. 6d.; and if that would not suit me, he had a brace of pistols, and plenty of powder and ball—he did not show me the pike—head; he said he would go to London and get it for me—I was to pay for it by instalments in the best manner I could, as I was out of employment—he said he had a place in London

where be could purchase such tilings—he said the police were going to arrest all the Chartists, and I had better have a pike to defend myself; he expected perhaps the police might drop in on us some time when we were little aware of it; that he had powder and shot in his possession, and he could supply me or any of us that wanted it, up-stairs in the club-room at the Druids' Arms, that he wished he had a place where they could practise firing, as they would serve out those b----blue devils, only he said he thought it would annoy tie neighbours—he held a long fowling-piece in his hand—I did not speak to him or he to me when he came out of the Blackheath station; he took care of that, for he ran away like a dog with a tin-kettle tied to his tail.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. He did not want you to see him come from the station? A. Of course not, he was my class-leader, as he termed himself—I was a Chartist at that time, under him—I hare been assistant grave-digger—I have a wife and family to maintain—I was never in the P division of police—I joined the R division when it first went to Greenwich—I was in the service five years and a half—I gave up my clothes, because I took work on the Greenwich Railway—I got 18s. a week for that—I had 19s. a week in the police, but I had not so many masters over me as I had in the police—I was not discharged from the police for taking improper liberties with the wife of one of my fellow-constables—I was not discharged, I gave in my resignation, and gave my clothes up to the sergeant Imuse I bad a better situation to go to, I had not such an eye over me as I had in the police—in the police I paid 2s. a week for my clothes, and 1s. for my lodging—my money was 1l. 1s. a week, 2s. was stopped, which left 19s., and single men living in the station have to pay 1s. a week for their lodging—I had 19s. a week and my clothes—I had clothes every year—as far as I can say, I had had the clothes which I gave up three or four months—we generally received them in May—Mr. Philpot sent sergeant Mallilaeiv to take my clothes—the sergeant went with me to my house—I gave up my clothes within the next week, and received the balance of wages due to me—I was at work six days last week at Greenwich Iron-works, earning 1l. 1s. a week—the week before that, I was lumping, unloading a ship, for three days—this-week I have been at work at Blackheath—I worked Tuesday and to-day, when I was called on to come here, for Mr. Robertson, the wheelwright—I suppose I have been a Chartist nearly five months—Davis first asked me to join them, five or six months ago—he said it would he a benefit to me and my family—it was with his wishes and proposal—he made me such good promises, and said bricks were made all in a minute—I saw the pistols in his hand at his shop—he did not take them out of the window—I saw three guns in his shop, but it did not matter what it was I wanted, gun, pistol, or anything, if I had money to have purchased it, and he would have furnished me with powder and shot as well, if I had been destitute—he said he had guns at 6s. 6d., 7s., 6d., and different prices—he had a large fowling-piece and a soldier's musket—he took up the gun at his shop-door, and said, "What do you think of this? do not you think this would do if it was loaded, to shoot the b----y blue devils?"—I went over to the Druids' Arms—he came over soon afterwards—there were three men with me—John Matthews was one—I cannot recollect the names exactly now—a gentleman named Ward, of Blackheath, asked me questions, and said, "You are wanted at the Old Bailey to speak the truth"—I told him what I knew, this morning before I started—a gentleman who was with him, wrote down what I said—I do not know who that was—I saw Ward last evening coming

out of the shop where he was at work—we did not talk about this—he did not say a word to me about Davis—I had not been in the habit of topping to him—I said, "There you are John," and away I went—he is a Chartist—he is chairman of the Confederates' Club—I was not a Confederate—I did not go to the meeting of 10th April—I only went to one on Blackheath—I hered several persons speak, I did not hear Looney—I have heard him speak in a room—I have heard Ernest Jones speak there—I heard Sharpe speak at the Three Crowns one night—I have heard Vernon speak on the Heath—the prisoners are all strangers to me, I never saw them—I am a lucky man that I am not in the same situation.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You have a wife, and how many children? A. Four—I left the police because I wanted to go on the railroad—I had over time on the railroad, and was paid for it—I had overtime when a polices—I could earn 26s. or 27s. a week at the railway, and have my Sunday to myself, and my night always in bed—I was at work this morning when I was subpoenaed—I have never attended Reform or Anti-Corn Law meetings and never went out of Greenwich to see anything of the kind—I have heard a good many people speak.

HENRY JOHN HEATH . I am a master boot-maker. Davis had a room a my house six or seven years ago, as near as I can recollect—about twelve months ago, he asked me to join a Chartist club—he showed me some guns which he said he had brought from London, and was going to take to the Druids' Arms—he had pistols at one time, and afterwards a gun—is said he was in the habit of going to London, and purchasing arms to supply the Chartists with—I said to him that no sensible man would talk in the way—he advised me to go to the Druids' Arms, where I should hear arguments to convince me—after the birth of Her Majesty's last child, Davis something disrespectful in reference to its birth—about six days before 16th Aug., the 11th as near as 1 can recollect, he said to me, "Now you will soon see what we can do; we shall soon all be ready "—he said he was a Chartist. and asked me to join them—I am not one—I refused, and ridiculed him.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. It is your brother that is a Chartist? A. I do not know—Davis said he was a Chartist, not that had joined them—I mentioned what I could state, to Mr. Roberts yesterday, after nine o'clock at night—Mr. Bellus, who I know, sent Holmes to me, who was a stranger to me—I had told Bellus on Saturday that Mr. Davis, the great Chartist leader at Greenwich, was supposed to be a spy; that he had tried to make me one of himself, but being such a character I could not place any faith in him, provided my principles laid that way—that was why Bellas Holmes to me—Bellus is not a Chartist that I know of—I was not afraid Davis was coming as a witness—I said he was a spy, because it was reported in the neighbourhood for some weeks—by a spy, I mean a man to deceive another—I was not mixed up with the Chartists—Frederick Martin, a carpenter, came into my shop, and said he would have a word about Davis respecting this spy, and Davis said be would give him 2s. worth—that was the first I heard—I knew Davis as a Chartist by his words and actions—I never saw him at the Druids' Arms—I never was at a Chartist meeting, only public meetings—only one where Chartists were mentioned—that was at the Lecture-hall, Greenwich—I know Wright—he works for Davis—he has never had me up for illtreating an apprentice—I have an apprentice, who is a foster child of Wright's wife, and is a cripple—he was sent to the hospital from my bouse—Nature is not favourable to everybody, it was no fault of mine—he

was hump-backed when he was apprenticed to me—that was all that was the matter with him—he went to the hospital for a pain in his side—no one took him from my place—he went up himself several times and got advice—Wright's wife has not threatened me for ill-using him—I never spoke to her in my life—Wright has never complained to me nor anybody—it is only the boy's own temper—he has accused me of his hump-back—he has not accused me of kicking him in the side, or striking him, or shoving him down stairs—I have a greengrocer's shop and a coal-shed—some nuts had been stolen, and I met the boy cracking them—I shoved him over some coals there—he never complained, but since that he has been trying to make out that the hump-back was caused by it—he tried to raise that three months ago—there has been no illwill between Wright and me—we have always been nn good terms; only while the boy was in the hospital, he wanted me to bear all the expense of it, and to find him in everything—everything has gone on right, and at the last conversation I had with him he advised the boy to behave better—the boy fell on the coals on his hands—I was rather in a passion, and cannot say whether he fell sideways or backwards—his face was towards me when he ell, but he never went plump down, as the wall kept him up—befell over a heap of coals, and partly of wood and rubbish, which had been swept up in one corner.

MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. What relation was he to Wright? A. None Whatever—a woman had had five bastard children, Mrs. Wright was in the habit of nursing them, Mr. Wright was in the habit of fetching her back-wards and forwards and one child was apprenticed to me under false pretences—I sell firewood and greengrocery, but not coals—I have given up the shoe-making two years and a half—when this happened to the boy, a partition went across to part off the place where I carried on the shoemaking—he had nothing to do with the greengrocer's shop—he was apprenticed to me as a boot-maker—I caught him in the greengrocer's shop, and found some nuts in his mouth—I came on him suddenly—I had missed nuts before, and money—no complaint was made by the boy or his friends for two years—I had to complain of him in the meantime—I had complained to Wright plenty of times of his idleness before he brought the charge against me—he merely said when he had been vexed—if you had him here he would say I did not do it—when he complained of bis back, I gave him leave to go to the hospital—the people there thought he had better go into the hospital, and I allowed him—it was about a month ago—the only quarrel between me and Wright was because he wanted me to pay part of the expenses—I gave the boy 1s. while he was there, and took him apples and pudding, and did his washing—his friends never took him a halfpenny.

COURT. Q. I suppose, by the indentures, you were bound to keep him? A. Yes—Wright said I ought regularly to supply him with tea, sugar, and refreshments—I said he should want for nothing, but I thought his friends ought to do something for him, as he was doing no work for me—Holmes introduced himself to me as a friend of Bellus, whom I knew—Mr. Roberts, the attorney, came and took down my evidence—I told him what I have told you to-day.

JOSEPH DUNN . I am a hat-manufacturer, of 128, London-wall—I have lived there about a year and a half—before that, I lived at 82, Chiswell-street, finsbury, and carried on the same business. I am a Chartist—up to Aug., 1846 I was a member of the National Charter Association—I am not so now—I have attended meetings lately—I was not a member in 1848—a similar card

to the one produced was used in 1846—this is not exactly the same plan of organization as was used in 1846—it has been revised since—I do not see any very important difference—the plans of organization are similar to those which existed in my time—I was a member about six years, from the foundstion up to 1846, and took an active part up to that time—I held of be—I was president of the City of London branch, and treasurer—I always considered the object was to obtain the Charter by peaceable and constitutional means, otherwise I should not have mixed myself up with it—I never witnessed any secret proceedings in the society—there were none in ray department—there were delegates at that time—the plans for class-leaders were laid down, but not acted on.

WILLIAM DIXON . I am a collier by trade—at present I am one of the Directors of the National Land Company, and live at 144, High Holborn. I am a Chartist by political sentiments—I have been a member of the National Charter Association eight or nine years—(looking at one of the cards produced) this is a card of membership used by the National Charter Association—I never understood that its object was otherwise than to obtain the people's Charterer peaceable and constitutional means—there is something about class-leaders on this plan of organization (produced)—I do not see anything about delegates—this is the plan of organization now recognized—there have been revisions of it—there is nothing connected with the Association, or the means which it employs illegal, unconstitutional, or otherwise than peaceable—there is nothing about arms in this paper—there is nothing about arms connected with the Association—it is not a secret association, club, or confederacy—any one may join it, on the condition that he enters his name on the books, and subscribes to the six points of the Charter—to my knowledge, it has no secret correspondence with any other association—it was not formed for the purpose of raising insunecte or rebellion in this country.

Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GESERAL. Q. Did not you attends a Delegate to the Confederate Club on 10th April? A. No—I was a delegate on 10th April—I never attended the Confederate meetings, or the Davis' Club, or any of them—I was at Clerkenwell-green, at an outdoor meeting when members were elected for the Convention.

MR. PARRY. Q. Have you seen the banner used? A. Yes, on several occasions—the first time was at the Land Demonstration at O'Connor Ville, Hertfordshire, on 17th Aug., 1846, at the anniversary of the commencement of the society—that was a perfectly peaceable meeting.

LACEY— GUILTY . Aged 38.

FAY— GUILTY . Aged 20.


Transported for Life.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2182
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty

Related Material

2182. JOSEPH RITCHIE was indicted for the like offence; to which he pleaded

GUILTY . Aged 42.— Transported for Life.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2183
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Not Guilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment; Miscellaneous > fine; Miscellaneous > sureties; Miscellaneous > sureties

Related Material

2183. ALFRED ABEL, WILLIAM GURNEY, JOHN SHEPHERD, JAMES SNOWBALL. JAMES RICHARDSON, GEORGE GREENSLADE, HENRY SMALL, EDWARD SCADDING, WILLIAM BURN. PHILIP MARTIN, CHARLES YOUNG, HENRY ARGUE , and THOMAS JONES , were indicted for unlawfully conspiring to excite insurrection and riot, and to obstruct by force the execution of the laws and preservation of the public peace, and to procure arms and ammunition for that purpose to which the following prisoners pleaded GUILTY :

ABEL; aged 23.—GURNEY; aged 42.—SNOWBALL; aged 32.—SCADDING; aged 28.—MARTIN; aged 45.—JONES; aged 39.—ARGUE; Aged 23.—And YOUNG; aged 38.— Confined Two Years, fined 10l. each , and to enter into their own recognizance in 20l., and find two sureties of 10l. each to keep the peace for five years.

SHEPHERD, RICHARDSON, GREENSLADE, SMALL, and BURN, who pleaded Not Guilty, entered into their own recognizance in 50l. each, to appear and take their trial upon this indictment when called upon.

(None of these defendants were called upon to plead to the indictment for felony.)


Before Mr. Recorder.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2184
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2184. WILLIAM BOWCUTT , stealing 70lbs. weight of rope, value 12s.; the goods of Benjamin Green.

EDWARD EAGAN . I am in the employ of Benjamin Green. On 19th Aug. I went to Plaistow, and missed some rope, which I had left in a basket the week before—this is it (produced)—I made these knots—it is Benjamin. Green's.

RACHAEL RAYNER . I keep a marine-store shop, at Stratford. The prisoner and another brought some ropes in a bag—they weighed 1/2cwt. and 7lbs.—I paid the prisoner 4s. for them—these are part of them—I knew the other nan, but had not seen the prisoner for twelve months.

GEORGE HAREISSON (police-sergeant K 15)". On 23rd Aug. I went to Mrs. Rayner's, and saw Mr. Green identify the rope.

JOSEPH BENTON . I took the prisoner—he said a man gave him 6d. to help him carry it to Mrs. Rayner's, which is two miles and a half from Mr. Green's.

GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Three Months.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2185
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2185. THOMAS BENNETT GODDARD , stealing 2 razors, 1 pair of scissors, and 1 curling-iron, value 2s.; the goods of William Ashelford; having been before convicted.

WILLIAM ASHELFORD . I am a hair-dresser. On 9th Aug. the prisoner came to me—after he left, I missed these things (produced)—they are mine.

ELEANOR CORNE . The prisoner lodged with me—he brought home these razors about four o'clock on Thursday, and said he had bought the lot cheap—I put them away, lest my children should get them—I gave them up to him when he left.

THOMAS FORESTER (policeman). I took the prisoner, and found these tilings where I was told he lodged—I asked him if he lodged there—he said, "Yes," and he wrote his name on the razors—there was a name on them.

Prisoner's Defence. I left my shoes at Mr. Ashelford's, to be mended, and fetched them next day, which I should not have done if I had committed a robbery there, and I told him where I lived.

WILLIAM KING (policeman, H 85). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(read—Convicted Oct., 1847, and confined six months—I was present—he is the man.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2186
VerdictGuilty > unknown

Related Material

2186. THOMAS BENNETT GODDARD , was again indicted for stealing-1 pair of stockings, value 8d.; the goods of Charles Corne.

ELEANOR CORNE . My husband's name is Charles—the prisoner lodged with us—I missed a pair of stockings—these are them (produced).

THOMAS FORESTER (policeman, K 229). I took the prisoner, and found these stockings on his legs.

Prisoners Defence. She packed up my things, and must have given me hers, and kept mine.

GUILTY . Aged 52.— Transported for Seven Years ,

(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)

Before Edward Bullock, Esq.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2187
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2187. ELIZABETH BRADY , stealing 1 3d.-piece, 3 pence, and 5 halfpence; the moneys of Charles Atkin, her master.

CHARLES ATKIN . I keep a beer-shop, at Forest-gate. The prisoners was in my service nearly three weeks—on the 8th Sept. I came down stairs before the prisoner, at twenty minutes past six o'clock—I went to the till, and there were then two 3d.-pieces, four 4d.-pieces, and 2s. worth of copper—it was not locked—I went up stairs for about two minutes to get the key, and then went to the till to lock it—no other person had come down—I missed a 3d.-piece—I called my wife down—she counted the copper in my presence, and there was 7d. missing—I spoke to the prisoner about it—she denied it, and said if I wanted to make her a thief I might, but she was not—I said I had detected her before, and could not be robbed any longer—she said she did not care how many policemen I fetched, she was no thief.

CHARLES ROWBERRY (policeman, K 347). I was sent for to the prosecutor's—the prisoner was not there—I afterwards met her with Mrs. Atkin, who in her presence gave me a 3d.-piece, three pence, and five halfpence, which she said she had just brought from Mrs. Gilson's—I took the prisoner—on the way to the station, she said she took the money to Mrs. Gilson's just after dinner.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2188
VerdictsGuilty > lesser offence; Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2188. WILLIAM ARMITAGE , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Fenton, and stealing therein 2 coats, I shawl, and 1 pair of boots, value 2l., his goods; and ANDREW POWELL , feloniously receiving the same.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN FENTON . I am a linendraper and smack-owner, of Barking—Armitage was my apprentice. On 23rd Aug. I fastened up my house, and went to bed—the prisoner did not sleep in the house that night; he had absconded a fortnight before—I came down next morning, and found the kitchen window-shutter taken down—I missed three coats, two pairs of trowsers, and other articles—on 14th Sept. Armitage was found in a cupboard in the kitchen, covered over with pieces of wood—I gave him in charge—some property was shown me by the police, which was mine—I went with them to Rosemary-lane—Powell was sitting at a door there—Armitage said, "That is the man I sold the things to"—the policeman searched Powells house, produced two great coats, a pair of trowsers, and a shawl, which are mine, and these boots also.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Armitage was an apprentice to a Barking smack? A. Yes; for three or four months—he went several voyages before he was bound, and, I think, two since, and then he ran away—I cannot tell what time he got into the house that night—I have had these cow six months—(putting one on)—this one fits me—they were lying across Powell's counter—the shawl was concealed in a box—the police took seme silk away, which I found was not mine.

BENJAMIN TBAWN (policeman). On 14th Sept. I was called in to Mr. Fenton's, and found Armitage secreted under a dresser, with pieces of wood covered over his breast—he said he had committed the robbery, and had got through the hole in the former part of the night—there was a hole in the ceiling in the back house—I went with him next day to Powell's, in Rosemary—lane—he was in his shop—Armitage said, in his hearing, "He is the man that bought the articles"—I searched, and found three coats.

HENRY BARNES (policeman, K 256). I went to Powell's on 15th—directly we got in Armitage said, "That is the man I sold the articles to, which I stole from Mr. Fenton"—I asked Powell to allow me to see them—he said, "I never bought any coats"—I said, "Then allow me to see the slops; is that one laying on the counter?"—he said, "Yes; I did buy a slop"—I took him, searched, and found another slop—I put my hand on a box—he said, "Those are my wife's clothes"—the wife said, "Those are all my clothes"—I found this shawl in a blanket, in the box—Mr. Fenton claimed it.

Cross-examined. Q. What did you ask him? A. I said, "Let me see tie slops you bought of him"—he said, "I bought two of him," and pulled a yarn frock from the window-board—I said, "Let me see the other"—he said, "I bought no more of him"—I did not search any other shops in Petticoat-lane.

GEORGE BEST (policeman, K 333). On 15th Sept. I found these women's boots, wrapped up with some linen in a box, at Powell's—I had asked him what the box contained—he said, his wife's linen.

MART ANN FENTON . I know this shawl—I have had it three years—I wore it on the Sunday before it was taken.

ARMITAGE received a good character.

GUILTY of Larceny. Aged 16.—Recommended to mercy.

POWELL— GUILTY . Aged 44.—Each confined Twelve Months.


Before Edward Bullock, Esq.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2189
VerdictGuilty > lesser offence

Related Material

2189. REDMOND GEARY , assaulting Bridget Winiford Artnell, with intent, &c.

GUILTY of an Assault. Aged 41.— Confined Nine Months.

18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2190
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown

Related Material

2190. SARAH HICKLEY, WILLIAM HICKLEY , and JOHN HICKLEY , stealing 1s.; the moneys of Edward Winch.

JOHN CARPENTER (policeman, R 84). On 9th Sept., between six and eight at night, I was at Deptford-bridge, watching the prisoners—Sarah went into a great many shops, the others waited outside, sometimes twenty and sometimes thirty yards off—she went to Mr. Winch, Trafalgar-row—I saw a bottle of ginger-beer put on the counter—she laid down a shilling—the landlady took away the ginger-beer, and she took up the shilling—they had some conversation—Mrs. Winch put up a glass of ale, which she drank—Mrs. Winch gave her some money from the till, and she left—I inquired, came out, and followed the prisoners to another public-bouse, and then to the railway, where I took them—I told them they were charged with obtaining money at various shops by false pretences—they said they did not knowwhat I meant—I repeated it—Sarah said, "The shopkeeper was a great fool if she did not get the shilling"—I searched John and found a number of aricles.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was it dark? A. It was just dusk—I looked in at the door—I was in plain clothes—the others were thirty yards from me—it was not fifty.

MART WINCH . I am the wife of Edward Winch, who keeps a beer-shop at Trafalgar-row, Greenwich. On 9th Sept. the female prisoner came and asked for a bottle of ginger-beer—I served her—she laid down a shilling and asked if I had a fourpenny-piece—I said I had not, and gave sixpence and fourpence—she said she wanted penny beer—I said I did not tell it—I missed the shilling, and gave her another, supposing I must have takenit—she said she would have a glass of ale—I gave her a glass and tenpenee—she gave me a shilling—I afterwards found I was a shilling short.

Cross-examined. Q. That was when the policeman came? A. Before that—I was telling my husband as the policeman came in.

JOHN WHITE (policeman, R 180). I took William, and said he was charged with receiving money of the woman—he said he had a right to receive what he liked from his wife—I found on him two sovereigns, sixteen shillings., twenty sixpences, thirty-two fourpenny-pieces, fourpence-halfpenny, and two ginger-beer bottles.


18th September 1848
Reference Numbert18480918-2191
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

Related Material