MATHEW ROME, JOE ZUBESKY, SYMON OBOLNICH, ADOLPH ZIEKEL.
15th December 1902
Reference Numbert19021215-109
VerdictGuilty > pleaded guilty; Guilty > unknown

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109. MATHEW ROME (47), JOE ZUBESKY (27), SYMON OBOLNICH (31), ADOLPH ZIEKEL (50) , having in their possession three forged Bank of England notes for the payment of £50, £10, and £5, knowing them to be forged, and without lawful authority or excuse, to which ROME PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. CHARLES MATHEWS and MR. LEESE Prosecuted; MR. DOHERTY appeared for Zubesky; MR. BRAY for Obolnich, and MR. SIMPSON for Ziekel.

WILLIAM JAMES FLYNN . I am an agent in charge of the United States Secret Service Department, New York—that is a division of the United States Treasury Department—on January 22nd, a man giving the name of Jacob Stern was arrested on a charge of attempting to utter £155 worth of counterfeit Bank of England notes at the State Bank of New York—there were nine notes, some of the value of £50, some £10, and some £5 (Produced.)—the man was subsequently released, as he claimed that he had found the notes and did not know they were counterfeit—we did not believe him, but we could not prove otherwise.

Cross-examined by MR. SIMPSON. I cannot say that I have ever seen the informer Schmidt before—I do not think I have.

Cross-examined by MR. DOHERTY. I have heard that Schmidt lived in America for some years—I do not know that the American police were looking out for him.

JOHANN SCHMIDT (Not sworn). I am a German, and an engraver by calling—I have been resident in England about four years—for three years I have been acquainted with Soloman and William Barmash—I first met them at their house at 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham, and afterwards at a house in Brady Street, where some people named Samuels were living—at Brady Street the Barmashes and I arranged that I should undertake the manufacture of forged Bank of England notes—I commenced by making some samples to show my skill—I showed the samples to the Barmashes, and I was instructed to proceed with the work—at first I was employed on £10 and £5 notes—on July 1st, 1901, William Barmash took a house at Southsea, where I went and carried on the same work in reference to the £10 and £5 notes—later I received instructions to manufacture notes of £50 face value, which I did—these six notes (Produced) are my manufacture, and also this one for £10—I believe I made about 400 £50 notes in all, but about half of them were spoiled and not delivered—I made about 200 tens, about fifty of them were spoiled—I endeavoured to bring out about 300 fives, about 100 of them were spoiled—I do not know what were done with the spoiled ones—I have not seen the spoiled ones—I gave them to the Barmashes in good condition, and they spoiled them by keeping them too long in chloride of lime—that was to whiten the paper—the Barmashes supplied me with the paper—I believe they got it from Wiggings, Teape and Co., in Aldgate—it was bond paper—I believe I made the water-mark on forged paper to the extent of about 600 fifties and about 300 each of tens and fives (£34.000)—I made the paper look like bank note paper—I did not know Philip and Hyman Bernstein—I had never done this to Bank of England notes before—I had forged things before in England, not in Germany—the whole of the work was finished by January last—we commenced in 1901—I received 30s. a week while I was employed, and I was to receive 7 1/2 per cent on the face value as the notes came back—I do not know where they were to come from—in January I pressed for money, and I received about £40 on percentage from Solomon Barmash—I learnt from him that William Barmash had left this country, and there was some question of money from Solomon Barmash to me for the purpose of bringing William back—I did not accede to his request, and I have never spoken to either of them since—we did not exactly quarrel—we had an argument—in July I saw an advertisement in the newspapers with regard to the forgery of bank notes—I read of the trial at this Court of a number of people charged with uttering a number of forged bank notes.

(Devenport and others, Vol. CXXXVI, page 581.) It was after that trial that I read the advertisement—in September I went to Messrs. Fresh field, the solicitors to the Bank of England, and saw Mr. Edwin Freshfield—he referred me to the police—I saw Mr. Edwin Freshfield again, and he again referred me to the police, and some time in September I made a

statement to Detective-Inspector Ottaway—I do not remember the date—I have known Zubesky about four years—he is supposed to be a carpenter—he very seldom works—he is a Russian Jew, I suppose—he does not come from the same place that I do—I have known Obolnich about four years—as far as I know he is a tailor and presser—in September last he was living at 59, Nelson Street—he is a Russian Jew—when I spoke to Obolnich and Zubesky we spoke in Yiddish—I did not know Ziekel before last September, and I have known Rome about the same time—I went about with Zubesky last August—I made two statements to the police quite close one upon the other—I cannot give the dates—after that I acted in accordance with their instructions—about the time I was making statements to the police I went to 59, Nelson Street and saw Obolnich—we talked on general matters first, and finally he asked me if I could supply him with some Bank of England notes—that was just before I went to the police—he meant forged notes, he knew I was in this sort of line—I said, "I will see about it"—he said if they would be as good as the ones he had handled before, he could buy any amount—he meant some he had had from the Devenport gang—I said, "I will see," and he said he would like to see some samples before he went into it—I told him the amount I could supply him with would be £10,000 face value—then I learnt the amount would be £13,000—after I had seen the police I saw Obolnich again, when the larger amount was mentioned—I afterwards had a conversation with Zubesky, and he told me that he had learned from a man, who I subsequently learned was Rome, that the Barmashes had a parcel of notes, and they were going to send the man abroad with it to dispose of—I suggested to Zubesky the idea of getting some samples and trying to sell them here instead of abroad—he was to get them from Rome, and Rome was supposed to get them from the Barmashes—I saw Zubesky again, and he said if I wanted to have the samples I must make an outlay or somebody else must do so to get them from abroad, and that he would require £2 13s. for the passage—he had learnt that the notes were abroad from Rome—I saw Zubesky again—I do not remember if it was the next day at the Whitechapel Library—I do not know if the police were there—we went inside—I received £3 from the police for the expense of bringing the notes from abroad—I did not give Zubesky the money—he said the notes would be over here in a day or two—I knew the police were keeping me under observation at this time—one evening about eight o'clock I went with Zubesky to the Lord Nelson, at the corner of Philpot Street—Nelson Street, where Obolnich lived, is in the neighbourhood—I left Zubesky and went to 59, Nelson Street—Obolnich was not at home—I went into the street and afterwards saw him in the street—I said I had some samples for him, and that there was a man waiting at the Lord Nelson with them—he said, "All right, I want to see them at my own house"—we went to his house and I left him and went to the Lord Nelson, where I saw Zubesky—I got samples of a £5, a £10, and a £50 note from him—I showed them to Inspector Davidson, who was not far off—he was away with them for a short time—he returned to me and I went to Obolnich's house with them—I looked at them myself and recognised them as some of

those I had made for Barmash—I showed them to Obolnich—he said, "All right; I must see a friend of mine, I must see somebody else"—he gave them to me back, and we went into the street—he parted from me and found the man he wanted—he afterwards rejoined me with Ziekel—in the meantime I had given the notes to Zubesky—then Obolnich, Ziekel Zubesky and myself went to Ziekel's house in Philpot Street—Zubesky produced the samples—Ziekel looked at them—I do not think he made any remark—he gave them back to Zubesky, and then said he wanted to compare them with a genuine note—Zubesky would not allow him to have them—we met the following day at the Three Nuns Hotel in Aldgate, between 3 and 4 p.m.—I then left them, and had some communication with the police—next day I went to the Three Nuns—I met Zubesky coming away from there—he said I was a little late and that Ziekel had been there but had not brought the genuine notes—later that day I had an interview with Zubesky, Obolnich and Ziekel at the Clyde public house—before that I had told Obolnich that the face value of the forged paper was £135,000, and at this interview Ziekel offered £300 for the £135,000—Zubesky had told me that at least 7 per cent of the face value was required by the Barmashes—I stated that in the presence of Obolnich and Ziekel—on' the following day I had a meeting with Zubesky and Rome, when it was agreed that Rome should tell the Barmashes that they would get the 7 per cent in order to get the parcel out of their hands—when it was taken out of their hands they were not to be given anything—it was to be sold to Zubesky and Ziekel for the £300—that could not be worked because one of the Barmashes wanted to be present at the deal—I remember one day going to the Lord Nelson and Zubesky handing me a sample £5 note for me to take to 59, Nelson Street, and show to Obolnich—on my way there I showed it to Inspector Davidson—he kept it a short time and then returned it—I went to Obolnich's, but did not find him there—I afterwards saw him in the street with Ziekel and went with them to the Lord Nelson—I told them I had a £5 sample note—they said it was no good to look at it if I could not show them samples of the £10 and £50 notes—next day I went and saw Rome and had a conversation with him, in consequence of which I got a sample of £50, £10 and £5 notes—I went to the Lord Nelson with Zubesky—I left him there and went with the notes to Obolnich's—I produced the notes—I believe Ziekel was there—they took the samples in their hands and looked at them—they said they must keep them to compare, and Obolnich retained them—I then went out with Obolnich—I borrowed half a sovereign from Obolnich for Zubesky—I did not show the notes to the police on that occasion—the notes were supposed to be returned" to me next morning but I did not get them from Obolnich until the second night—he did not say if he had compared them—I gave them to Zubesky, who was supposed to give them to Rome for the purpose of returning to the Barmashes—the attempted deal with Obolnich and Ziekel went off because one of the Barmashes wanted to be present, and because Rome got a little suspicious about the samples being kept so long.

Cross-examined by MR. DOHERTHY. I was never known as Jacob

Liebermann—when I was in Russia I was known as Schmidt—I was not born in Kovno—I lived there about five years—I left because I wanted to travel—I did not escape from prison there—I was never charged there with having stabbed a man—I went from there to America—I have been here four or five years—I have spent about a year doing honest work—I travelled for a tea merchant for three months—I received 18s. a week, and I was engaged for three months at a factory in Gray's Inn Road—I married while I was out of employment—I thought that was a convenient time—I borrowed money from a man who is now in prison—I know a man named Noek—he lent me money—I was not connected with these forgeries for nearly twelve months before I met Zubesky—he had no hand in these forgeries when I was at Southsea and Edmonton with the Barmashes—I will not say he had no knowledge of them—he knew I was engaged in something—he was introduced to me as a man who handled forged money in Russia—he knew I was an engraver—he could not say whether I was honest or dishonest—I have had some experience in connection with the forging of Russian notes and stamps—Zubesky had connection with forgeries of that kind—I do not know if he was charged or not—I have not been charged before—I had no money when I saw the advertisement of the reward of £1,000 for the discovery of the men who forged the notes—I was determined to get it, but it was conditional upon my securing the conviction of certain men—I did not entrap Zubesky; he entrapped himself—he had not the forged notes in his possession in September—the other prisoners have seen the notes in his possestion—I got £3 from the police to give to Zubesky to get these notes from abroad—I had no means at that time myself—I put the money in my pocket, because this came forward without it.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. I did not mention Obolnich's name when I went to Messrs. Freshfield, or when I went to the police the first time—I went to Zubesky before I went to Obolnich—I was to get the notes from Zubesky to give to Obolnich—I do not know the first day I went to 59, Nelson Street—it was in the evening—I saw the landlord's daughter—Obolnich was supposed to be at work—I did not say what I wanted to see Obolnich for—when Obolnich took the £5, £10 and £50 notes from me we were in his house—no one else was present the first time—he examined them—he did not keep them—he did not see the £5 note that I offered to show him because he said he did not care to see it unless he had the other two samples—I do not know why he should not want to see it—I might say they had somebody else behind them—all the notes were the product of my forgery—Obolnich never offered me any money in respect of the notes—I never saw him in the presence of Rome—Obolnich came to me once—it must have been 2 1/2 years ago—that was in connection with this matter—I went to him—he asked for my address, but I never gave it to him.

Cross-examined by MR. SIMPSON. I left Kovno between 1888 and 1889 and went to America—I did not say I went direct—Kovno is in Russia—I never said I left Germany for America—I was fifteen when I went to America; I am thirty now—I did not go from Kovno to America—I did

not return from America to Germany before I came to England—I left America for London because I was advised by a friend of mine to come here to start in business—it was not the same business which I was carrying on in America—the business in America was not forgery—I do not remember what boat I came over in—I might swear I landed in Liverpool—I might have sworn before the Alderman that I landed in London, but I did so by train—I did not know Ziekel until I went to find other purchasers for the notes—I saw him about four times—the first time I saw him was on the night of his seeing these three notes—I do not remember the date—I suppose it was September—the second time I saw him was in the Clyde public house—the third time was in the street, and the last time in the Lord Nelson, I believe—I never gave him these notes—I never saw them in his hands—when I told the police that I had given the notes to the prisoners they did not search me—I do not know if they took any steps to see if I had given them up—the whole of my acquaintance with Ziekel lasted about fourteen days—he offered me £300 for the notes, and Obolnich, Zubesky and I agreed we should tell the Barmashes it was £600—Ziekel did not know anything about that.

Re-examined. The three first notes were given back to Zubesky, because they were not allowed to be retained for comparison—Rome and Zubesky represented the agents of the sellers in the matter—Obolnich and Ziekel I understood to be the agents for the buyers—Obolnich made me no offer, but he was present when the £300 was offered by Ziekel—I never gave the notes into the hands of Ziekel, and I do not think he was present when they were handed to Obolnich—I was convinced Ziekel knew of the negotiations, because when I should have got the notes back I met him in the street, and he said he could not give them to me then because he was hunting someone else up, and I must wait a few hours more—he was always looking for things in my line.

JOHN DAVIDSON (Chief Inspector, City.) Schmidt was sent to me on September 5th by Messrs. Freshfield—the first statement I had from him was on September 26th—after that, police observation commenced on the prisoners and on Schmidt—on September 27th I was in High Street, White-chapel—I saw Rome—I had followed him from West Ham—I saw him meet Zubesky outside the Whitechapel Library—on September 29th I gave Schmidt £3—that did not come back—on September 30th I was near the Lord Nelson at 8 p.m.—I saw Schmidt with Zubesky go into the Lord Nelson—Schmidt came out—I spoke to him in Philpot Street—I then followed him to 59, Nelson Street, which turns out of Philpot Street—after he had left Obolnich's house he joined Obolnich in the street—they remained in conversation, and went into Nelson Street—they retraced their steps and went into the Lord Nelson—Obolnich came out first and ran across to his house—then Schmidt came out with Zubesky—he left him and I followed Schmidt, who handed me what purported to be three Bank of England notes—I know now that they were forged—I took them to Inspector Dinney, who was close by—we examined them—one was a £50 note N/50 02077, one for £10 L/50 65040, one for £5 J/61 43540

—we did not take the date of making—I returned to Schmidt and handed the notes back to him—I then followed him to Nelson Street—he knocked at 59, entered, and remained some time—he came out and joined Zubesky, who had been standing in the street—they remained in deep conversation and then parted—I then joined Schmidt—on October 1st, about 4 p.m., I was close to the Three Nuns with Inspectors Dinney and Ottaway and Constable Landley—I saw Zubesky and Ziekel in Aldgate High Street—Schmidt arrived shortly after they had passed and followed in their direction—on October 4th I was outside the Lord Nelson at 10 p.m.—I saw Schmidt and Zubesky—they went to the Lord Nelson together—Schmidt came out and brought me what purported to be a £5 Bank of England note—I took it to Dinney and examined it—the number was J/59 24383, dated September 13th, 1901—I gave it back to Schmidt, who went to 59, Nelson Street, knocked at the door and went in—he came out almost immediately, went into Philpot Street, and met Ziekel and Obolnich—they all remained in conversation, and then all crossed the road and joined Zubesky, who was outside the Lord Nelson—they all went in—when they came out Obolnich and Ziekel went away together and Zubesky and Schmidt together—on October 5th Schmidt made a statement to me, in consequence of which, about 7 p.m., I went to the Whitechapel Road with other officers—I saw Schmidt, Zubesky, and Rome together at the corner of Osman Street, close to the library—they walked up Osman Street, followed by Landley and Atkins—about 7.15 I saw Schmidt and Zubesky in Whitechapel Road—I followed them to 59, Nelson Street—Schmidt knocked at the door and entered, leaving Zubesky outside—he came out shortly and joined Zubesky—they both stood outside No. 59 for some time, and were joined by Obolnich—they all went into the Lord Nelson, where they remained some time talking and drinking—when they came out Schmidt and Obolnich left Zubesky, walked down Philpot Street and stopped on the footway in conversation—Schmidt took something from his inside jacket pocket, handed it to Obolnich, who put it into his inside jacket pocket—it was something white, and, from the distance I was standing at, looked like paper, about the size of an envelope—I then saw Obolnich place his hand in the pocket at the back of his trousers and take something out, which he handed to Schmidt—both walked away together and joined Zubesky in Commercial Road—Obolnich then left Zubesky and Schmidt and went towards Nelson Street—about 9 p.m. that night I saw Schmidt again, and he made a statement to me—I did not see any notes that day—on October 6th, at 1 p.m., I saw Schmidt with Ziekel in Commercial Road—Ziekel left Schmidt and got into a tram going west, followed by Detective Fitzgerald—I had another conversation with Schmidt—at 2.40 p.m. I saw Schmidt with Rome—they went to the Lord Nelson and remained there some time—Zubesky arrived, and went in also—at 4.30 p.m. I saw Schmidt come out and go to Ziekel's house at 9, Philpot Street—Ziekel and Schmidt came out and went to Obolnich's house—I saw them standing in the passage of the house in conversation with another person—I do not know who he was—shortly after 9 p.m. I saw Schmidt and Zubesky in the Lord Nelson—Ziekel

entered the same house—Schmidt came out and in several times going to Philpot Street and Nelson Street—about that time Rome and Zubesky came out and went to a Jewish restaurant at 2. Bedford Street, Commercial Road—at 10.15 p.m. I saw Zubesky, Schmidt, Ziekel, and Obolnich in Philpot Street—I followed them to the Lord Nelson—they remained there some time, came out together, and walked to Nelson Street—I did not arrest any of these prisoners.

Cross-examined by MR. DOHERTY. These men appeared to know each other—I do not know if Schmidt treated them—I do not know if he had any money in his pocket—he had to see me from time to time—I took care he did not concoct anything because I had other people watching him—when he made a statement to me I knew if he was telling the truth or not, because I had him watched—I do not think he knew he was being watched at first—he did later—he knew me, but he did not know the other officers—he told me he had given the £3 which I had given him, to Zubesky for the purpose of bringing the notes to the country—I do not know if he gave it to Zubesky or not—if he says he did not give it to Zubesky he has deceived me—I believed him when he said he had given Zubesky the £3—I do not admit any smartness on his part—I did not put on an old woman's garb to find out for myself what he did—I was dressed as a costermonger, a seaman, or a coalheaver—I just suited myself to the neighbourhood I was in—when I saw something white passing between Schmidt and Obolnich I was about twenty yards away—I did not entirely rely on Schmidt's statements—I never saw notes in Zubesky's possession—I do not know if he ever saw one of them.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. I watched Obolnich very closely from September 30th to October 6th—he was then in honest employment, I believe, somewhere in Finsbury—he is called "Symon the presser"—I did not arrest him—I did not inquire how long he had been at 59, Nelson Street—when I went into the public-house on September 30th I did not go in with Obolnich and Zubesky—I was not in the same compartment—I could see into their compartment—I did not see anything pass—I could not hear what was said—I do not know if Obolnich was at work till 8 p.m.—he may have been under observation by other officers during the day—Schmidt said that Obolnich was working—I should think that the conversations between them went on after Obolnich had finished work—I did not see anything passed on October 4th, I did on the 5th—that was between 8 and 9 p.m.—it was quite dark—there were not many people about—I saw Obolnich take something out of his hip pocket and give it to Schmidt—I was told afterwards by Schmidt that that was ten shillings—he told me it was not the consideration for the note—I did not follow Obolnich any further that night—I cannot say from my own knowledge whether he met Ziekel or not—I never saw him in Rome's company between September 30th and October 5th—Obolnich, Ziekel, and Zubesky were neighbours—I did not attempt to arrest Obolnich on October—5th.

Cross-examined by MR. SIMPSON. I do not know where the £50 note has gone—the only information I have about the £10 note is Schmidt's word

that he gave it to Males—I never saw Ziekel in Rome's company—I have not seen the prisoners together before September 27th—it is not in my district—whilst I had them under observation I consdered their conduct suspicious—I knew Zubesky was going backwards and forwards to the Barmashes, whom we had had under observation for some months—we knew of some facts before Schmidt came to the police—if I had not known what Schmidt was I should not have bothered my head about the prisoners at all when he was with them.

Re-examined. Zubesky lived somewhere in the East End at a lodging-house.

By the COURT. We suspected the Barmashes of being concerned in forgeries of bank notes before Schmidt came to us—my officers followed them and reported that they had met Schmidt—Zubesky was called the Great Pearl Street man and Schmidt was called the Brady Street man—we did not know their addresses—knowing that Schmidt had met the Barmashes, when he came to us I was inclined to investigate and find out what he could tell us—he mentioned certain facts, so I knew at once he knew what he was talking about.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. Previous to Schmidt coming to us I had not watched Obolnich.

----DAVIS (City Detective.) Between July 20th and August 15th I saw a man who I now know to be Rome going several times to 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham, which I have since discovered was occupied by the Barmashes.

CHARLES ATKINS (City Detective.) From July 20th to August 15th I kept observation on Zubesky and Schmidt—I saw them together on several occasions—Zubesky went to 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham, almost daily—I next kept observation on September 29th, when I was in Whitechapel Road, at 4.30 p.m., I saw Schmidt there with Zubesky—at 8.5 a.m. on September 30th I saw Zubesky come out of his house, 1, Old Montague Street, and go to Rome's, at 114, Harcourt Road, West Ham—he shortly afterwards came out with Rome—about 11.30 a.m. the same day I saw Zubesky go to Schmidt's house at 17, Brady Street—he stayed there a short time, and then went away—on October 1st, at 11.50 a.m., I saw Rome and Zubesky meet at the Whitechapel Library, and about 1.30 p.m. I saw Schmidt and Zubesky go into the London Distillery public-house—at 4 p.m. I saw Zubesky leave the Whitechapel Library and meet Ziekel—they went to the Essex Tavern, in Aldgate High Street—Zubesky came out and went to the library again—he met Schmidt outside—Zubesky said to Schmidt, "You are late"—they went to the Princess Alice in Commercial Street, and about 5 p.m. to 59, Nelson Street—Schmidt went in, Zubesky remained outside—after a short time Schmidt rejoined Zubesky—they met Obolnich in Church Street and had a conversation there—they left him and went to the Whitechapel Library and then to Nelson Street—they met Obolnich again in Philpot Street shortly afterwards—on October 2nd, at 2 p.m., I saw Schmidt and Zubesky outside the Whitechapel Library,—and at 8.10 p.m. I saw Schmidt and Obolnich in the Commercial Road—on October 3rd, at 4.15 p.m., I saw Zubesky go to 59, Nelson Street—he

was met at the door by Obolnich—Schmidt shortly after joined them, and they all went to the Seven Stars—on October 4th, at 5.50 p.m., I saw Zubesky leave the Whitechapel Library and meet Rome outside—he then left him and met Schmidt—they went together to 59, Nelson Street—Schmidt went in and came out with Obolnich—they joined Zubesky, who was in the street, and all went to the Lord Nelson—while they were inside I saw Ziekel standing opposite the Lord Nelson—the three men inside came out and parted—at 8 p.m. Rome and Zubesky met at the Anchor restaurant, 31, Commercial Road—they came out at 8.15 and parted at the corner of Commercial Street—Zubesky got on a tram and then Rome went down after him to Tottenham—they parted at the terminus—Rome went to 25, Broad Lane, at 9.20; Zubesky stayed at the terminus—Rome came out at 10 p.m. and joined Zubesky at the terminus—they walked up Stamford Hill, when I saw Rome take something from his inside coat pocket and hand it to Zubesky, who looked at it and put it into his inside jacket pocket—it looked like a small piece of white paper—they parted on the hill—on October 5th, at 2.25 p.m., I saw Schmidt and Zubesky outside the Whitechapel Library—at 6.50 I saw Schmidt, Zubesky, and Rome outside the library—at 7.30, Zubesky and Schmidt both went to 59, Nelson Street—at 8.30 Zubesky, Schmidt and Obolnich came out of 59, and went into the Lord Nelson—they remained in there some time and came out and parted—I did not see Ziekel then, I saw him later with Obolnich in the Commercial Road—on October 20th, at 2.15 p.m., I arrested Zubesky in he Whitechapel Library—I searched him, amongst other things I found an envelope addressed "Mr. H. Morris, 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham"—this piece of paper was inside it (Read.) "I am glad it is all over in good shape and order, will see you soon, Monday"—I cannot say whose writing that is in.

Cross-examined by MR. DOHERTY. I have seen Zubesky with Schmidt, Rome, and others on many occasions—I have never seen anything in his conduct to connect him with these forgeries except on that Saturday when Rome gave him the piece of paper at Tottenham—I do not know if he is a carpenter—all the time I have been behind him he has done no work—I was behind him for a few weeks only—if he told me he was at the Barmashes mending furniture I should be surprised—I do not know what the paper was which Rome took from his pocket and gave to Zubesky—I was not surprised that Schmidt, Zubesky and the others should be talking in the Lord Nelson—I was looking out for something suspicious—it is rather unfortunate I could not speak Yiddish—I should not expect to hear any thing about the forgeries—I simply went to see what they were doing.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. I have not made any enquiries with regard to Obolnich's employment—I believe he was employed all this time—I do not know how long he lived at 59, Nelson Street—I never saw anything pass between him, Schmidt and Zubesky, or heard their conversation—I do not think that Obolnich ever went to Schmidt during my supervision of Schmidt—I think Schmidt always went to Obolnich—I never saw Obolnich in Rome's company—I never saw anything which would lead me to suspect that Obolnich had ever been in communication

with the Barmashes, except the fact of Zubesky and Rome going down to Tottenham and going back and joining Schmidt, and then going to Obolnich's house.

Cross-examined by MR. SIMPSON. I saw Ziekel meet Zubesky on October 1st—they went into the public house—I saw them on October 4th standing outside the public-house—I did not see anything suspicious—between July 20th and October 4th I did not see anything to arouse any suspicion in Ziekel's conduct except in the meetings—it was Schmidt's presence which made me suspicious.

JOHN OTTAWAY (City Police Inspector). I watched the movements of Schmidt and others after September 27th with other officers—on October 22nd at 9.15 a.m. I saw Rome go to 25, Broad Lane—I saw him about 3 p.m. at the Whitechapel Library, when he left Schmidt and Zubesky—on that day I saw Rome tear a letter card to pieces which I picked up and put together—(Read)—"Dear friend, very considerably surprised you did not come to my place to-day as arranged. Please be at my place not later than 10 o'clock to-morrow morning; don't fail."—it is addressed, "Mr. Rome, 114, Harcourt Road, West Ham, Essex."—Post mark, "September 30, London, W.C."—that is in William Barmash's writing—Rome threw it into the street as he left 2, Bedford Street, Commercial Road, where Zubesky was then staying—this letter addressed to H. Morris, 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham, which is a name under which William Barmash went from time to time, is in Rome's writing—on October 3rd Rome met William Barmash in Stratford High Street—on October 4th, between 4 and 5.30 p.m., I saw Rome meet William Barmash in Bishopsgate Churchyard—they walked about together and amongst other places they went to Artillery Passage—as they were walking through the passage their coats were buttoned—I saw their coats unbuttoned, and a movement towards each other as if something was being passed—immediately afterwards I saw Rome go to the Whitechapel Library and meet Zubesky—they remained there a few minutes—they walked away and parted, and Zubesky returned to the library—I arrested Rome and Ziekel—Ziekel made no reply to the charge—I arrested Obolnich—he said, "I suppose you have someone who has given information, but I know nothing about it"—I found this newspaper cutting on him—(This was the report of forgeries on the Bank of England, and stated that some hundreds of Bank of England£5 notes have been put into circulation.)—I had Rome under observation on October 5th—I saw him go to 25, Broad Lane—some documents and books were found on Rome, in one of them I find the entry, "Sal. £2 from Joe Zubesky, 4, Bedford Street, Commercial Road," and "1, Old Montague Street"—that was another address of Zubesky's—I also found the entry 63, Slater Street; that was an address of a man named Salisbury—I also found a document addressed, "Mr. Henry Morris, 25, Broad Lane, Tottenham"—and this telegram, dated October 15th, with the Stratford stamp upon it, "Rome, 114, Harcourt Road, West Ham. See me at once, home; waiting, bring"—also a number of envelopes containing letters signed "W.," and some post cards—the letters are in William Barmash's writing

—one dated October 4th from William Barmash,"Dear friend, please excuse me not calling upon you as promised. Please call upon me not later than Wednesday, without fail, yours"—there is no initial to that.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. Schmidt made his original statement to me; he did not mention Obolnich's name then—I was not watching Obolnich on October 5th—between September 30th and October 5th I did not see anything pass between Obolnich, or Obolnich and Zubesky, or Obolnich and Ziekel—I never saw him in conversation with Rome or the Barmashes—he was employed at Brice, Palmer and Co.'s for, I think, a few months—he has been living at 59, Nelson Street for some years.

Re-examined. When I arrested Obolnich I found on him several small stones that had been taken from rings or pins—I said, "Where did you get them from?"—he explained he dealt in various properties, and bought, as a dealer, things he could raise money on, and these were some of the things he had bought.

WILLIAM FITZGERALD (City Detective). On October 8th, about 9.10 p.m., I saw Schmidt, Zubesky, and Obolnich come into the Clyde public-house, talk together a little time, and then part—about 7.45 that evening I had seen Obolnich and Ziekel together in the Commercial Road—on October 15th, about 10 p.m., I saw Schmidt, Obolnich and Ziekel together near the Commercial Road—after meeting Ziekel and Obolnich at the Clyde, I saw Schmidt with other people after that.

Cross-examined by MR. BRAY. I was eight or nine days watching the prisoners—I saw nothing pass between them—I did not hear their conversation.

Cross-examined by MR. SIMPSON. They only aroused my suspicion by the way they looked about.

ALEXANDER GOODGE . I am an Inspector in the Bank Note Department of the Bank of England—the nine notes produced are all forged—no genuine notes for £10 were ever issued by the Bank with the serial No. L/50 65040, nor £50 notes with the serial No. L/50 02077—a £5 note dated October 19th, 1901. with the serial No. J/61 43540 was issued on October 14th—that was received back into the Bank on January 28th, 1902, therefore the note of September 30th,. 1902, could not have been genuine—the £5 note with the serial No. J/59 24383 of September 13th, 1901, does not tally with any note issued upon that day.

JOHANN SCHMIDT (Re-examined). I last saw the water-marked paper representing the face value of over £38,000 in the possession of one of the Barmashes, I cannot say which, at Broad Lane.

Zubesky in his defence on oath said that he had no connection with the forgeries; that he never had forged banknotes in his possession; and that he knew Schmidt through being engaged to his sister,' but had no other connection with the prisoners than in business or casually meeting them at public-houses.

Obolnich, in his defence on oath said that he met Schmidt in a restaurant, and that he afterwards came to him about the employment of a tailor's

machinist; that Schmidt never mentioned forged notes, and no transaction took place between him and any of the prisoners with regard to forged notes, but only with regard to business; and that he did not know Zubesky, although he might have seen him among other men at a public-house.

GUILTY .

ZIEKEL then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony on July 26th, 1900, at this Court. (See next case.)


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