GEORGE BAGLEY, GEORGE FORECAST, FRANCES BAGLEY.
8th September 1831
Reference Numbert18310908-11
VerdictGuilty; Guilty; Guilty
SentenceDeath; Death; Death

Related Material

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error
Navigation< Previous text (trial account) | Next text (trial account) >

Second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Justice Alderson.

1540. GEORGE BAGLEY , GEORGE FORECAST , and FRANCES (THE WIFE OF THE SAID GEORGE) BAGLEY , were indicted for that they, not having the fear of God before their eyes, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, and contriving and intending our Lord the King, and his people, craftily, deceitfully, feloniously, and traitorously to deceive and defraud, on the 22nd of July , at Christchurch , 3 pieces of false, feigned, and counterfeit money and coin, each and every of them to the likeness and similitude of the good, legal, and current money and silver coin of this realm, called half-crowns, falsely, deceitfully, feloniously, and traitorously did forge, counterfeit, and coin; against the duty of their allegiance, and against the Statute , &c.

MR. SCARLETT conducted the prosecution.

WILLIAM BRUMMITT . I am a potter, and live at Lambeth. On Friday, the 22nd of July, in consequence of information which I received, I went with Lawrence to Dean's-yard, Wentworth-street, Whitechapel; I do not know the number of the house - I saw the prisoner George Bagley there; Lawrence asked him if he had got any half-crowns - he said No, he had not got any half-crowns, but he said he would soon make him some, and asked how many he would like; Lawrence said twenty half-crowns and twenty shillings - Bagley said he would make him the twenty half-crowns and twenty shillings in an hour and a half or an hour and a quarter, if he would call for them; he showed us a pair of moulds, and he showed me a half-crown and a shilling - he said he must break the shilling up again, because it was not perfect; I looked at the pair of moulds, and asked if he made them himself - he said Yes, he did - I and Lawrence then left, and went to a public-house in the street; we met some officers there - I came back between six and seven o'clock in the evening, accompanied by some officers; I went up stairs, and saw Bagley at the top of the stairs, and in the room were two women and Forecast - Bagley stood at the top of the stairs; he asked me who that was coming up behind me - I said no one in particular that I knew of; he rushed by me, and went down stairs - I then went into the room; it is on the two pair of stairs; Lawrence was not with me the second time - I found forecast in the room with Frances Bagley and another woman - forecast was sitting down by the fire, putting some metal into a pot; it was apparantly from a pewter table-spoon, which was on the table, cut up; one pipe was in the fire, and another was in his hand - he was filling it: on my entering the room Frances Bagley had the moulds in her hand - she began to rub them together in her hand, trying to break them; I went up to her, and said, "Don't break the moulds," and took them out of her hand - they were quite warm: Forecast said, "Oh, don't break the moulds, there is no occasion for that;" I gave the moulds to Mr. Lloyd - Forecast got up from the fire, and said, "What do you want?" I said, "Is them things all right?" he directly jumped off his chair, and he had something between his legs in his lap: it seemed like chalk - he chucked it out of window, and said,"I don't live here, now I have done you:" he put himself in an attitude to fight - he took a mallet off the floor, and said to Lloyd, "If you don't let me go I will knock your brains out;" we had a bit of a skirmish - I took the staff out of my pocket, and we took them into custody - we found in the room some half-crowns, some pewter spoons cut up, and a band to put round the plaster, to form moulds with; I found on the mantel-piece two half-crowns, and a shilling - I believe in all twelve or fourteen half-crowns were found; I gave the two half-crowns and the shillings into Lloyd's hands.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. You are a potter, where do you live? A. At No. 1, Lambeth-butts

- the pottery is in High-street, Lambeth; Mr. Walter is the master - I am a journeyman; I did not work for him at the time I took the prisoners; he keeps a pottery, and makes pots; I do not know that I have worked for him above once before, and that was about two years ago - I am working for him now when I am at work, and I have worked for other masters; I did a day's work for Mr. Walter the day before yesterday - I have been taken into his regular employ since this affair; I have worked for Mr. Denew, in Ferry-street - it is four months ago since I was regularly employed there; I cannot say what month it was- I swear I worked for him in April as a regular servant; I think it is about four months ago that I left him, because he was slack of business - I had a guinea a week; I have a wife.

Q.What did you do for the two months before the 22nd of July, up to that day? A. I used to get jobs where I could - I worked for Dalton and Watts, in High-street, Lambeth; I did several days work for them between the time of my leaving Denew and going to the prisoner's - I had a whole week's work there, and I have worked at getting clay out of barges by the water side; I have supported myself by my own work as a potter - I was not in want of money, not to be distressed; I had money at home which I had earned by working as a potter - Lawrence is a fishmonger; I have known him in Lambeth, I suppose, six or seven years.

Q.How came you first to go with Lawrence? A. I was desired by Gollocker to assist in taking him - I expect nothing but my expences; I did not go for the purpose of making money by it - I have not been told any thing about what I am to receive, nor that I am to receive any thing; I do not expect to be paid more than for my loss of time -I was never in trouble myself; I was never at the place till Lawrence took me - I went with Lawrence; he gave the order for the money - I afterwards went and took them; Forecast was not there the first time I went - I saw Forecast put the metal into the pipe; I went to take them, not to entrap them.

ROBERT LAWRENCE . I live at No. 23, Lambeth-butts. I know Gollocker - he is a parish constable; he asked me to go to the prisoners' lodging - I said I would; I accompanied Brummitt on the 22nd of July - I had seen Brummitt twice before; when we got there we went up into Bagley's room, and I asked if he had any half-bulls, meaning half-crowns - he said No, and asked what I should want; I told him I should want a score of half-bulls and a score of garter-bobs, which means shillings, and a score of plain, which means plain shillings that have not got the garter round them - I asked him how long they would be before they were ready; he said he would have them ready in an hour and a half - we then went down, and went to the public-house at the corner of the street, where the officers were waiting; I did not go to the place a second time.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q.How long have you been a dealer in counterfeit coin? A.Since the 10th of June; I have been with Gollocker at times - I am not a dealer; I consider myself an honest, upright man - I have not given more than six or seven orders for counterfeit coin; I believe it is not more than five times - Gollocker is the person I principally go with when he calls on me; he never pays me, nor has any body else paid me - I expect to be paid for my loss of time, but as to any thing furthere I cannot tell; I do not get people to make coin, to entrap them, and then inform the Mint - if a person is introduced to me, I go and make a purchase of him; I never go myself, because I have no connexion with dealers in coin, except they are pointed out to me - Gollocker asked me to go to the prisoners'.

Q. He asked you as a friend of his? A. He and I have been together many years on the watch - he was a patrol, I was a private-watchman; I am a fishmonger - I live by that, and not by following Gollocker; I have never received a halfpenny for this, and as soon as I go from here I shall go to my employ - if a person is pointed out to me, I make it my duty to go, if I am sanctioned by an officer; it is my duty to go under the patronage of the officer, and detect them - I was not acquainted with coiners, so as to introduce myself to them - Gollocker was waiting in the street while I went in to the prisoners' - he had been with me previously to the same room.

Q. How came you to be acquainted with the terms? A. It is language I hear them make use of - I ordered a score of half-bulls, &c. in those words; I used those words when speaking to those sort of people.

Q. Did you not go there on purpose to betray them? A. I went to convince the world that they were the people they were represented to me; we knew of it a long time before - I do not entrap any one.

ANDREW LLOYD . I am an officer of Hatton-garden. I went to the prisoners' lodging, on the 22nd of July, with Brummitt, Hall, and Myers - I never saw Brummitt before that day; I followed Brummitt up stairs, and entered the room close after him - there were two men and two women in the room when I went in; Forecast was one of them - I cannot identify the other man or the woman, as I only took Forecast - I saw Forecast on entering the room, standing by a table by the fire-side; the instant I entered he threw something out of window in a handkerchief, and said,"Now, I have done you:" I seized him - he was in his shirt sleeves - he struggled very much, and with a mallet, which he had procured, he tried to strike me; he was then secured, after a very great struggle - Bagley was brought into the room by Myers; they were handcuffed together, and taken away - Myers had taken Bagley on the stair case; I searched the room, and found on the table one half-crown and one good shilling - Brummitt took some money up; I have a counterfeit half-crown and a good shilling, which I found on the table, and another counterfeit half-crown, which I found on the bed, and on the table I found two pieces of metal quite hot - I produce them; I believe it is called the get of a mould; it is the part which fills the channel of the mould - one of these half-crowns appears finished, and the other not.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q.Were you at the public-house on the morning of this day? A. No.

RICHARD MYERS . I am a tobacconist, and live on Newington-causeway. On the 22nd of July I went to the prisoners' lodgings with Brummitt, Lloyd, and Hall - I followed Lloyd up stairs, and after we got on the first floor I heard a man say, "Who have you got there?" and at that moment he rushed down stairs - when he came down I seized him on the

landing, and forced him into a room on the first floor; it was Bagley - when I got there another man was behind the door, and directly upon that the female prisoner and another man came round, and endeavoured to get him from me; I drew my cutlass, and said if he did not go up stairs I would cut him down - I forced him up stairs, and Forecast was sitting in the chair with Lloyd holding him; after he was secured, this tin dish was on the hob in the two pair of stairs room - there was a sharp fire there; two tobacco pipes were in the fire red hot, and full of metal - on the top of the ashes, under the fire, was this half-crown, which I picked up; it was very hot - on the table laid two pieces of metal, called gets; another get laid on the right-hand side of the fire place, and a three-square file and scissors on the table; a blue cloth on the right-hand side of the fire place on a chair, and on the table laid these pieces of new pewter spoons, cut up; on the bed by the side of a shawl lay these four half-crowns, finished - on the floor, by the side of a chair by the window, laid four more unfinished; in a cupboard, in the room, was this tin band, which they make the moulds with, and this knife with plaster of Paris on it - some wet plaster of Paris in a basin, and by the side of it a paper bag, containing a quantity of plaster in a dry state.

Cross-examined. Q. The room seems to have been nearly ready to receive you? A.It appears like it: Gollocker is here - Lawrence goes with us both if we want him; I cannot tell how much money I have received in two years from the Mint - you asked me yesterday that question on a trial, and I told you if you had asked me to bring my book, I would; I have not looked at it.

Q. Will you swear you have not had 100l. in the last two years? A. Not within twelve months; I will swear I have not had 150l. within the last two years - my business as a tobacconist is very good, but I do not depend upon that; I have landed property - I did this out of regard to the laws; I am entitled to my expences - I have been in the habit of going with Lawrence about twelve months; I should think it is nearly as long - he was at Maidstone, at the Spring Assizes, and you saw him there; I believe that was the first Mint case he had, but I have known him about twelve months - when we send him on this business we can trust him, and he never deceives us; he does not get people to make coin that I know of - I do not think I have been paid any thing by the Mint for these twelve months; I have done business for them for the last ten years, but do not think I have been paid above five years.

Q.Is there not one Perkins employed about coin? A. Yes, he came to us; I do not know of his having been convicted - I told you yesterday; I sometimes gave him a shilling or two - I will swear I never gave him 5l. - I mean to charge the Mint with what money I pay.

Bagley. Q. Did you not put out your hands to stop me from going out at the bottom of the stairs into the street? A.When I first saw him he was coming out of the two pair of stairs room - he rushed by the witness; I stood at the corner of the stairs, and as he came by I seized him with my left hand - he never got down the stairs; the staircase is very narrow and dark - I pushed you into the front room; another man and that woman came into the room, and gave me a drive towards the window - I drew my cutlass, and you surrendered; you said you did not live in that room - I seized him at the bottom of the second flight of stairs, coming down from his room, not near the street door - the female prisoner and another man came into the room to us.

WILLIAM HALL . I am an officer of Hatton-garden. On the 22nd of July I accompanied the officers to the prisoners' lodgings in Wentworth-street; Brummitt and Lloyd went across the yard first - Myers and I were following them; I saw something come out of the two pair of stairs window; it fell on the ground, and fell almost all to pieces; it was like chalk - I took it up, and have it here - it was quite warm at the time, and I picked up one half-crown close by it, that was quite hot, and another at a little distance off; one of the half-crowns had the get to it - I then went up stairs, and saw Forecast at the top of the stairs, endeavouring to get away from Lloyd; I assisted in getting him into the room, and after the two men were secured I took off the table three pieces of metal spoon.

Cross-examined. Q. You were not at the public-house in the morning? A. No.

ANDREW LLOYD . Here is a mould which I saw Brummitt take from the hands of the female prisoner; he gave it into my hands - it was quite hot at the time.

Frances Bagley . It was not taken out of my hands - it was the other woman. Witness. I am not sure it was her hand; there was another female in the room.

JOHN FIELD . I am inspector of coin to the Mint, and have been in the habit of seeing counterfeit coin for many years. I am acquainted with the materials coiners use - this mould is made of plaster of Paris; there are the two sides of a half-crown, of the date of 1817, impressed on it, here are also two pieces of what appears to be a plaster of Paris mould - it has part of the impression of the reverse side of a half-crown of 1817, the date is on it now - one of the half-crowns produced by Hall is finished, and the other has the get to it, as if just out of the mould; they are both counterfeits, and of the date of 1817 - I cannot say they are made from this mould, it being so broken; the two produced by Lloyd are both counterfeit, and dated 1817 - one is finished and the other not; the four produced by Myers are counterfeit, and dated 1817 - they are finished; here are four more produced by him, one finished and three unfinished; they are of the same date, but cast in a different mould to the others - they appear to me to have been cast in the mould which is perfect; in fact I have no hesitation in swearing so - there is an indented mark just under the chin of the whole four, and there is a corresponding mark in the mould; the moulds are made by inserting a good half-crown into the plaster of Paris - the unfinished ones merely require small particles of metal to be removed from them, which is occasioned by the mould not being closed; it is removed by a file or scissors - a spot or defect in the mould would appear in the coin; these are Britannia metal spoons, which is similar metal to the coin - a tin band is usually used to form the mould.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you call this half-crown entirely finished for circulation? A. Yes - aquafortis would entirely destroy it; I cannot say these smaller pieces of plaster of Paris have ever been a mould for a half-crown, because here is only part of the reverse side - whether the

obverse side was to it I cannot tell; I have no hesitation in saying it is the obverse side of a half-crown - part of the impression of this other mould is broken off on the outside- rubbing it together would produce that; the convex part of it is in a perfect state, but there are projecting parts in order that the mould might fit together in one place always, and those are off.

ANN SHEEN . I am the wife of William Sheen. I occupy the house in which the prisoners were apprehended; I live in the front parlour - the house is in a yard; Bagley and his wife occupied the second floor in the back house - they had been there about a fortnight, so that I knew them well; I have had some rent from both of them.

Cross-examined. Q. Forecast never lived in your house? A. No - they occupied the room where they were taken.

Frances Bagley . Q. Who took the room of you? A. You and George together.

Frances Bagley . We lived with you two months ago, and left in your debt - you said you would never let us a room again; you let us be in the house after that, but we never occupied one room together. Witness. They occupied that room only.

Frances Bagley . She keeps four brothels, and her house is open at all hours - she sits at her door till four o'clock in the morning, waiting for stragglers.

George Bagley 's Defence. One of the witnesses, you will remember, said I was an entire stranger to him, and at the same time he says I gave him a mould in his hand; is it likely I should show a stranger a mould, and give my life into his hands?

Forecast's Defence. I do not live there, but live in the same street - I went to the Star, and asked for a newspaper; they said it was out, and if I went to such a place I should get it - I went to this room, and asked two females for the newspaper; they said I should have it, and directly the officers came they took and threw me on the bed; a mallet laid there - I laid hold of it, and he said if I did not go up stairs he would cut me down with his staff - I did not see Bagley in the room when I went up; one of them says I threw the handkerchief out of the window; these men say they picked up the mould, but there was no handkerchief found - I believe Sheen can prove I was taken at the street door.

ANN SHEEN . I did not see him taken, and did not know it till the officers had him in the yard.

Frances Bagley 's Defence. Several girls have robbed men in Sheen's house - she is the mother of William Sheen, who cut his child's head off; she is inveterate against us, and said, in the street, she would hang any one she could for money.

G. BAGLEY - GUILTY - DEATH . Aged 22.

FORECAST - GUILTY - DEATH . Aged 21.

F. BAGLEY - GUILTY - DEATH . Aged 24.[Sept. 14.]


View as XML