29th May 1811
Reference Numbert18110529-70

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449. FRANCIS FERNANDEZ was indicted for that he, on the 21st of April , in and upon John Clare , a subject of our Lord the King, feloniously and wilfully did make an assault, and with a certain sharp instrument did stab and cut the said John Clare in and upon his left arm and right thigh, with intent to kill and murder him .

SECOND COUNT for like offence, with intent to disable him.

THIRD COUNT, to do him some grievous bodily harm.

ABRAHAM GOLE . Q. I believe the East India Company put you in the care of the lascar seamen that come on board their ships - A. The prisoner applied to the East India Company, and they put him under my care.

Q. Did you send him with other seamen to go on board an East India ship - A. I sent him down to the boat with others to go on board an East India ship under John Clare on the 21st of April, between nine and ten in the morning.

Q. Was he acquainted with Clare - A. Oh, yes, he saw him every day, he was one of my door keeper s.

He had been kept at my house by the East India Company a month, and maintained by them to be returned to his own country.

JOHN CLARE . Q. On the 21st of April were you sent by Mr. Gole to take the prisoner and other Iascar seamen, to take them in a boat and put them on board a ship - A. Yes, I took them to New Crane stairs, Wapping, where the Gravesend boats go from, and when Francis Fernandez got to the boat he ran away instead of getting into it.

Q. Did you pursue after him - A. No, I staid to take care of the rest. After I returned to Mr. Gole's premises in about a quarter of an hour the prisoner came in; Mr. Gole's premises is in the Back-road, St. George's in the East , I asked him why he ran from the boat when the boat was just going, he made no answer, he cut me in my left arm.

Q. Had you collared him, or laid hold of his person, to take him as a prisoner - A. No; my hand might have touched his clothes, as my left arm was up; I am not sure whether my hand did touch his clothes or not.

Q.What was he - A. In Mr. Gole's premises, in the yard.

Q. Had you shut any gate upon him - A. No.

Q. How far had he come in when this took place - A. About twenty or thirty yards.

Q. Are you sure that you had not collared him, or gave him the idea that you were going to stop him - A. I had not collared him nor stopped him when he ran the knife into my left arm. - I cannot say how deep the wound was; there was a great deal of blood came from the wound. After he had stabbed me in the arm he attempted to run out of the yard, I ran after him to prevent him from making his escape, as he got to the gate I got hold of him he stabbed me in the thick part of the thigh with a knife. It was a small wound, but I had a great deal of pain with it; it is not perfectly well now. It was a very small pointed knife.

Q.Have you once seen the knife - A. Yes.

COURT. Both cuts were done with a knife - A. Yes

Q. to Mr. Gole. When he was apprehended was the knife taken from him - A. Yes, by me; this is the knife.

Clare. That appears to be the same knife.

Q. Did he after having stabbed you in the thigh this way get away from you - A. Yes.

Q. Had he the knife in his hand when you first saw him - A. I did not see him take it out of his pocket.

Q.When you asked him what he had gone away for what did he say to you - A. He made me no answer.

Q. Did you tell him that you would take him on board - A. No.

Q. Did you advance towards him - A. No, he advanced towards me.

Q. Did you put out your hand with intent to take him - A. No, not then.

Q. What did you put out your hand to him for - A. To stop him to speak to him.

Q. You had spoke to him before - A. He stabbed me at that very instant in the arm, when I asked him what he left the boat for. I did not see the knife until after he had stabbed me in the arm.

Q. He had no time to open it, had he - A. No.

Q. There he must have it in his hand at the time what could be your reason for putting out your hand to stop him - A. To speak to him; he was walking on fast to the barrack-yard when I put out my hand.

Q. What did you mean to do with him when you stopped him - A. Nothing at that time; Mr. Gole was not at home, I wanted to ask him the reason why he ran away from the boat.

Q. How far was he from the house door at this time - A. Four or five yards; he was going towards the house; I did not lay hold of him.

Q. Had you any other Lascars in the house at the time - A. Yes.

Q. Did not you want to stop him to prevent the others from taking part with him - A. No.

Q. Were you under any apprehension that he might induce them to leave the house in a holly, or take part with him - A. No. I am certain I did not lay hold of his person before I received this wound.

Prisoner. That gentleman wanted to send me to the ship, I told him I did not belong to the Company at the time that he laid hold of my clothes.

Q. to Clare. Had you struck him, or had you any quarrel with him going down to the ship - A. No.

Q. Was this man permitted to go out of the house to take exercise - A. Yes, without any body in the care of him, and they are expected to return at a particular hour. This man was under no restraint in Mr. Gole's house. I and another man took nine or ten men from Mr. Gole's house to the boat they walked.

Q. Did you see this man leave the Company when they got to the boat - A. No,

Q. Had he got to Mr. Gole's house before you perceived it - A. No. I got into the house first, I did not see him in my way to Mr. Gole's house.

Q. In your way from Mr. Gole's house to the ship did you or any other man make use of any threats to force him on board - A. No.

Prisoner. There was another man with this man, they took hold of me.

Clare. There was another man with me, an acquaintance of mine who came to see me, he did not attempt to lay hold of him.

Prisoner. The other man pinioned me back by holding me.

Clare. That is not so, nor did the man lay hold of him.

JOSEPH OLIVER . I live with my father, a trimming manufacturer, No. 10, Wilson-street, Moorfields.

Q. Did you happen to be at Mr. Gole's on the 21st of April - A. Yes; I saw the prisoner come down the yard, I did not perceive the knife then, nor when Clare asked him what he ran away for from the boat; the prisoner made no answer, but directly stabbed him in the arm with the knife; I did not see Clare lay hold of him, if he had, I must have seen him; I was looking at him. I saw the

prisoner stab him in the arm, then he went directly towards the gate from whence he came. He was going into the barracks when Clare spoke to him, I and Clare followed him, and laid hold of him at the gate, and then he stabbed him in the thigh; then he came towards me to stab me, I hit him on the side of his head with my stick, then I got outside of the gate to stop him, and he made a strike at me; I struck him and he fell; that blow could not hurt him, and I got no mischief.

COURT. He stabbed at you did he - A. Yes, and after he got up again he held up the knife.

Q. You think he fell in consequence of some false step, and not in consequence of your blow - A. No, it was not my blow.

Q. Had not the other man a stick as well as you - A.No. Clare had not a stick.

Q. to Clare. Is there any mark on your arm now - A. Yes.

Q. to Oliver. Did Clare bleed a great deal - A. Yes, he did, and it was a small knife like that he cut him with. I could not swear to the knife.

Mr. Gurney, Q. to Mr. Gole. The prisoner was taken up the same day was not he - A. Yes, this was done about eleven.

COURT, to Clare. It was some where about eleven in the morning that you were stabbed - A. Yes.

Prisoner's Defence. There were two men got hold of me, one pinioned me, and the other hit me with a stick on the hand, and that is the way he got cut.

GUILTY - DEATH , aged 20.

Second Middlesex jury, before Mr. Common Serjeant.

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