18th February 1807
Reference Numbert18070218-1
VerdictGuilty; Not Guilty
SentenceDeath; Death

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171. JOHN HOLLOWAY , alias OLIVER , and OWEN HAGGERTY , alias EGGERTY , were indicted for the wilful murder of John Cole Steele .

THOMAS STEPHEN GERARD MEYER . - Mr. Alley. What business are you. - A. I am a distiller of lavender water.

Q. Are you any relation of the deceased Mr. Steele. - A. I am his wife's brother.

Q. Where was his town house that he carried on his business previous to his decease. - A. No. 15, Catherine street in the Strand.

Q. Had he any place near Hounslow heath. - A. He had a place at Feltham, a small house, and a lavender nursery.

Q. Do you recollect in the early part of the month of November, his leaving town for the purpose of going to Feltham. - A. He left town on the 5th of November 1802.

Court. At what hour. - A. It was on Friday in the afternoon.

Q. When was he to return. - A. He did not state any particular time as to his return.

Q. In consequence of his not having returned did you go to Feltham . - A. We understood the fact on the Monday or Tuesday; I went on the Wednesday morning to Feltham to enquire after him.

Q. Were you able to discover him yourself. - A. He was not at his house.

Q. Did you go to the barracks and procure assistance to search on the common for him. - A. Yes, I did.

Q. After you had searched the common did you discover any thing of him. - A. I first discovered his great coat.

Q. Be so good as to tell me where you discovered his great coat. - A. It was on the side of which his house was.

Court. Which side is that. - A. The south side.

Q. You had much better state whether it is the right or left going from Hounslow towards Stains. - A. It was on the left hand going from Hounslow to Stains; that was the side on which his house was.

Mr. Alley. What was the colour of that coat. - A. It was a drab colour.

Q. Was that the same coat that he had on when he left London. - A. It was.

Q. Where did you discover it. - A. In a gravel-pit with rushes over it; it was concealed.

Q. How far from the road was it that you found the coat. - A. About ten or fifteen yards; after I had found the coat I went to the barracks, and with the assistance of the officers and the rest of the men, they discovered it for me; it was on the other side of the road that a discovery had been made of the body, and I came up the moment after it.

Q. Whose body was it. - A. The body of Mr. Steele, I saw the flap of the coat thrown over him. I did not see his features at the time.

Q. You had an opportunity afterwards of discovering that it was his body. - A. Yes.

Q.Which side of the road was the body discovered. - A. Of the right hand side of the road, on the opposite side of the road; I suppose it might be two hundred yards distance from the road, the hat was brought up to me by Henry Mandy ; he brought me an old hat, I picked up a piece of the hat myself besides.

Q. Did you see any thing of a stick. - A. I saw a stick afterwards at Bow street.

Q. Had you an opportunity of knowing whether your deceased brother put any mark on the hat he had from the hatters. - A. He used almost to write his name in every thing he had, I cannot say whether he did in this hat, he used to write his name in full length.

Q. Soon after there was an advertisement in the paper, stating a reward for the persons that committed it of fifty-pounds; was that to be paid sir, and by whom. - A. It was to be paid by the family.

HENRY MANDY . - Mr. Gleed. Where did you live in November 1802. - A. I lived at Feltham.

Q. You were at that time inspector of the works belonging to Mr. Steele. - A. Yes.

Q. Did you recollect Mr. Steele being down there. - A. Yes, on Saturday the 6th of November 1802.

Q. What time did he leave Feltham that day. - A As near seven as posible.

Q. When he left Feltham, do you recollect in what manner he was dressed. - A. He had on a light great coat, and striped waiscoat, and half boots.

Q. What hat had he on. - A. A round hat.

Q. I wish to know whether you recollect whether the hat was new or old. - A. It had been wore a little while, it was not quite a new hat.

Q. What was Mr. Steele custom to do of a Saturday, was it not customary for him to come down of a Saturday to pay the workmen. - A. He never came particularly of a Saturday, he came on any day, I was the person that paid the men.

Q. I do not know whether you know whether he took any money away from Feltham that night or not. - A. Yes, twenty six or seven shillings.

Q. In consequence of some application made to you, you searched Hounslow-heath. - A. Yes.

Q. On what day was that after the accident happened. - A. It was on Wednesday following.

Q. Upon searching the heath did you find any thing belonging to Mr. Steele. - A. When we came to the heath, there were three of us, me,

Mr. Meyer, and another gentleman; Mr. Meyer and I went on the right hand coming from Feltham to town, the other gentleman went on the left.

Q. You went on the right hand side of the road coming to town. - A. Yes.

Q. Upon the right hand side of the road did you find any thing. - A. When we came to the third clump of trees, coming to the gravel-pit, I picked up an old hat, that was the right hand side; I picked the hat up, I brought it to Mr. Meyer.

Q. Your attention was drawn to the gravel-pit; in that gravel-pit did you find any thing, or did you see any-thing that was found there. - A. I saw the symptoms of a coat, he desired me to get it up; I put my hand under the flags in the water, I pulled up a great coat.

Q. Was the great coat nearly concealed under the flags. - A. Yes, under the water.

Q. Upon taking up the great coat, to whom did it belong. - A. To Mr. Steele, I hoped it on his back the night he left Feltham.

Q. Were there any marks on the great coat. - A. When we pulled the great coat up and unbuttoned it, we found a speck of blood upon the right shoulder.

Q. You have not answered that first question of mine, was there any particular mark, by which you are enabled to swear that it was Mr. Steele's coat. - A. No particular mark, I knew the coat well.

Q. After you had found the coat, what did you proceed to do next. - A. The other gentleman that went of the left handside of the way, Mr. Meyer, and I consulted together.

Q. Did you continue of the same side or go across. - A. We went across the road, and Mr. Meyer and I went to the barracks, and then we came back again; there was a great many people on the heath when we came back.

Q. All that you found was a great coat and a hat. - A. Yes.

MR. HUGHES - Mr. Gurney. In the month of November 1802 were you employed to search for the body of Mr. Steele. - A. I assisted in the search.

Q. Were you at or near the spot at the time the body was found. - A. I was, I was so near that I was the person that found it. I found it in the ditch by the clump of trees, it was laying in the bottom of the ditch with the bank pulled down which covered the body over.

Q. In what condition was the body. - A. The body was laying on the back, and the flap of the coat was over the face, with a strap round the neck.

Q. How was that strap round the neck. - A. The strap had at one time a buckle, the buckle was broken off and one end of the strap had a knife run through it, and the other end of the strap was drawn through, that it was very tight, the face was all over blood and dirt.

Q. Did you observe any injuries upon the head. - A. Yes, he had a violent blow upon the back part of the head.

Q. Did you observe any other blow on the head. - A. I did not.

Q. Did you see the great coat, hat, and shoes, that were found there. - A. Yes, I did.

Court. Did you find the shoes. - A. I did, I found the two shoes about fifty yards from the place where the body was; on the same side of the road, where the body was.

Q. Do you know to whom they were delivered. - A. I believe to Mr. Bacon the beadle.

Q. Did you see them delivered to him. - A. No, I have seen them since at Worship street.

Q. Was there any shoes on the feet of the person, whose body was found. - A. None.

Q. Had the body any hat on - A.No.

MR. HENRY FROGLEY ; examined by Mr. Alley. You are a surgeon. - A. Yes.

Q. Do you recollect after the body had been found on Hounslow heath, seeing the body of Mr. Steele. - A. I saw it at the Ship at Hounslow, on the 10th of November.

Q. You examined the body. - A. Yes.

Q. Did you examine the head particularly - A. Yes.

Q. Describe in what state you found the head A. I found on examining the head, a very large extensive fracture on the front of the head, with a laceration of the integuments, which appeared to me to have been given by a stick, or some blunt instrument; there was also a very large wound, a laceration of the integuments also on the back part of the head, but I did not perceive any fracture of the bone there on the back part of the head. Also there was much injury done to the neck, which was occasioned by the application of a leather strap, being put round it so tight, that this strap would have produced suffocation of itself.

Q. Did you make any other observations. - A. Likewise a very large blow on the upper part of the right arm.

Q. Did that blow appear to have been made by a blunt instrument. - A. A blunt instrument, it was such a blow as a stick would have made. My opinion was, that the blows he received on his head, was the immediate cause of his death.

Q. Were you before the coroner. - A. Yes.

Q. The deceased was there. - A. Yes, and there I examined him; I examined him first on the 10th, and I particularly examined him on the coroner's inquisition.

Q. You saw Mr. Nares. - A. I saw Mr. Nares but whether I saw him there, I do not recollect; I have seen him several times on this occasion.

[Mr. Gurney produced his Majesty's pardon of Benjamin Hanfield , alias Enfield, part of which was read in court.]

BENJAMIN HANFIELD . - Mr. Gurney. Attend to the questions that I ask you, give slow answers, be sure to speak the truth, and nothing but the truth - had you known the two prisoners at the bar. - A. Yes.

Q. How long have you known Haggerty. - A. About seven or eight years.

Q. How long have you known Holloway. - A. About six or seven.

Q. Have you known much or little of them. A. A good deal of them both.

Q. Have you been in their company much or little. - A. A good deal in their company.

Q. Was that the case before the month of November 1802. - A. Yes.

Q. At what houses had you used to meet them. A. At the Turk's head in Dyot street, the Black horse in Dyot street, and sometimes the Black dog the corner of Belton street.

Q. Do you remember being in their company in the beginning of the month of December 1802. A. Yes.

Q. Did any thing pass between you about going any where, and state what. - A. John Holloway came to me at the Turk's head in Dyot street; in the beginning of December 1802, he called me out and asked me if I had any objection of being in a good thing, I replied I had not; I asked him when and where, to which he replied it was low toby, meaning a fotpad robbery; I then asked him when and where, he told me he would inform me in the course of a day or two; upon which he came the day but one afterwards.

Q. Who came. - A. John Holloway , I saw him in the street, I asked him if he was ready for what he had proposed, he replied that he was, and that it should be done on the Saturday following; and he replied to me to meet him at the Black horse in Dyot street; I then asked him who was to be with us, he replied Owen Haggerty .

Q. Was it said where you was to go to. - A. Not at that time.

Q. Any thing more said at that time. - A. No more than our meeting afterwards.

Q. Where did you meet afterwards. - A. At the Black horse, as appointed.

Q. On the Saturday following who did you meet afterwards. - A. Owen Haggerty and John Holloway . Owen Haggerty informed me that it was to sarve a gentleman.

Q. What does that language mean. - A. That is, rob a gentleman on Hounslow heath, who he knew had property about him.

Q. How was he to know that that gentleman had property about him. - A. I do not know, it was John Holloway that found it out; we then stopped there till near the middle of the day, and from there we went to Hyde park corner.

Q. Before you went from the Black horse had you any liquor. - A. Yes, we had ale or beer, we had liquor, I cannot say what.

Q. You went away from thence towards Hyde park corner. - A. Yes; and then we proceeded upon the road towards Hounslow till we came to a public house on Turnham green, where we stopped, and had some porter, and from thence we went to Hounslow to the further end of the town, we stopped at the last house, a public house, with some trees before it.

Q. Do you remember the sign. - A. No, I cannot recollect; I have since seen it is the Bell.

Q. At what time did you leave the Bell. - A. As near as I can recollect it was past four o'clock; we then proceeded upon the heath till we came near the eleven mile stone towards Belfont.

Q. In your way there did any conversation pass upon the beginning of your going. - A. Nothing further than common discourse.

Q. Tell us what did pass. - A. Nothing more than we hoped to meet with a good booty.

Q. Was any thing said about how you were to do it. - A. Nothing; Holloway replied, that when we come near the eleven mile stone that that was their mark, but he thought we were too soon.

Q. Did you wait upon the heath any time. A. Yes, we struck out of the road upon the heath, to a place that is near a clump of trees (I have since pointed out the same spot); we waited there a considerable time, I suppose it was better than an hour, as near as I can say, not having a watch.

Q. Did you stay till after dark. - A. It was dark when we got to the clump of trees, or nearly so, but by the time that we had waited there the moon had arose; we walked out from the clump of trees on the left from here, and walked about half an hour, and then returned to the clump of trees.

Q. Which side of the clump of trees. - A. The left from here.

Q. Did you go beyond the eleven mile stone. - A. We turned down to the left just before we came to the eleven mile stone; at the time we were going to nigh where he died the moon was obscured.

Q. Did you observe any person coming across the heath; tell us what passed on the business that you went on. - A. We then came out of the clump of trees; Holloway said he thought he heard a foot, upon which we come out, and went along the road, upon which we could descry the figure of a man coming towards us.

Q. Which way was he coming. - A. Towards Hounslow.

Q. On which side of the road. - A. On the right hand side of the road going from there.

Court. On the right hand as you come to London. - A. Yes; he was near the road, on the path way by the road side, then on drawing near him I ordered him to stop, which he immediately did; Holloway walked behind him, between him and Belfont.

Q. How did he appear to be dressed. - A. He was dressed in a light coloured coat.

Q. Could you see whether it was a common coat or a great coat. - A. I did not observe whether it was a surtout coat or a close-bodied coat. I ordered him to stop and deliver his money, he replied he would willingly do that, and hoped we would not hurt him; Owen Haggerty went between me and the deceased, the deceased put his hand into his pocket, and gave Haggerty something, but what I know not, upon which Holloway asked whether he had delivered his book, I asked him whether he had a book and to deliver it, he replied he had not got any book, upon which Holloway insisted that he had a book, and if he would not deliver it he would knock him down, he replied that he had none, upon which Holloway knocked him down with the stick that he had in his hand.

Q. Could you see where the blow took place. - A. No, I could not.

Q. He was knocked down with a stick. - A. He was knocked down.

Court. Holloway was behind him at that time. A. Yes.

Q. You was before him. - A. Yes, and Haggerty too.

Mr. Gurney. Did the gentleman do or say any thing at that time. - A. I immediately took hold of his legs, and John Holloway stood over him, protesting, that if he said any thing he would knock out his brains.

Q. Did the gentleman say any thing. - A. Yes, he kept crying out, do not ill use me; Owen Haggerty proceeded to search as I described before; Holloway stood over his head, and the deceased made some struggle, and endeavoured to get up, upon which he struggled so hard that he got nearly across the road. He was very strong, it was as much as our main force could do to keep him down; upon which after he was down he cried out severely, after Haggerty proceeded to search him, and at the identical time, the sound of a carriage came near, upon which he made another violent effort to arise, upon which he could not succeed; upon which John Holloway said, I will silence the b - r.

Court. Holloway said that. - A. Yes.

Mr. Gurney. On his second effort to rise before Holloway struck him, he had got off the road, which side was he then, of the common side, on the right hand coming from London. - A. On the opposite side, on the right hand coming from London. Upon his crying out very violently, John Holloway said, he would silence the b - r, John Holloway gave him several divers blows on his head and body.

Q. What size stick was it. - A. I do not know the exact size of it, it was a large black thorn stick; on receiving which the deceased gave a very heavy groan, in the course of half a minute afterwards he gave a second groan, and seemed to stretch out lifeless; upon which stretching himself out, I was a armed for my own safety; I was on my knees holding of his legs, I arose and said, John, you have killed the man; upon which he replied that I told a lie, that he was only stunned; I made him for answer, that I would stop no longer, I should go on to London, he might overtake me; upon which I made the best of my way to London, and came on towards Hounslow, leaving Holloway and Haggerty with him.

Q. You had heard the sound of some carriage wheels, did that sound at all approach you. - A. Yes, it had gone on before, it went by nearly at the time that the deceased groaned.

Q. What carriage did it appear to you to be. - A. I could not make out what it was, it sounded heavy.

Q. Did it go like a coach or a waggon. - A. A coach, it appeared to me as if it was one of the heavy night coaches.

Court. How far were you from it. - A. I suppose we were near thirty yards from it.

Mr. Gurney. You were then thirty yards out of the road. - A. Yes, I cannot ascertain how far we were.

Q. When you quitted them, which way did you come. - A. Towards Hounslow.

Q. How soon did you see either Holloway or Haggerty again. - A. I saw them at the end of Hounslow, I was waiting there near an hour, I saw them near the public house we had been drinking at.

Q. Were you in the house. - A. No, I was waiting there, just opposite the road going to Bath, I was just opposite of that.

Q. Where was the spot that this first took place with respect to the barracks. - A. It was not on the same side of the road, it was beyond the barracks, on the opposite side of the road.

Q. How near do you take it to be to the barracks. - A. I cannot say, the barracks lay to the right of us, some distance behind us.

Q. Have you since pointed out the spot to any person. - A. Yes, to John Vickery and Mr. Hughes, as near as my recollection would allow.

Q. You say that you had waited at Hounslow for near an hour. - A. Yes, or more.

Q. After you had waited there that time, did you see either of them or how. - A. They both came up to me again at Hounslow, at the further end; then when they came they appeared to be out of breath, and John Holloway observed that they had done the trick; upon which I asked John Holloway whether he was in earnest; he told me he was, and as a token of that he shewed me a hat which he had brought away; putting a hat in my hand.

Q. Was that the hat that he had gone down with to Hounslow. - A. No, it was not, I could tell that by the feel, it was a better hat a great deal.

Q. What sort of a hat was that he went to Hounslow in. - A. It resembled a soldier's hat to me.

Q. Has that hat since been shewn you. - A. Yes, before the magistrates at Worship street, but I do not know whether that is the hat or no.

Q. His hat was a hat like it. - A. Yes.

Q. You described the hat before you saw it. - A. Yes.

Q. To whom. - A. To John Vickery .

Q. When Holloway put this hat in your hand, what passed. - A. I returned it to him.

Q. What did you observe upon this. - A. I observed and said it was a cruel piece of business, and I was very sorry that I had any hand in it.

Q. Did you make any enquiry after his own hat. - A. I did; he said he had left it behind, he had served it, meaning he had disfigured it or buried it

Q. Serving, means altering some way or other - A. Some way or other sir.

Q. Did you ask any other question at that time. - A. Haggerty interrupted us, and said that it was time to proceed towards home.

Q. In searching the pockets of the gentleman had you taken any money. - A. No, I did not, I did not attempt to search him.

Q. Who did. - A. Haggerty searched him while I held his legs.

Q. Where did you come to in town. - A. There is one thing to observe, crossing a field I asked him whether they had got the book; Holloway replied, as I had not shared in the danger, I should not share in the spoil.

Q. When you arrived in town you came to the Black horse in Dyot street, what time was it then. A. It was past twelve o'clock when we arrived there, the house was shut up, but they were not gone to bed, we had half a pint of gin there, drank that, and parted for that night.

Q. Did you see each other the next day. - A. Yes.

Q. You have said that when you were going down to Hounslow, Holloway had on an old hat, did Haggerty go down in boots or shoes. - A. He went in shoes, and he made this observation when he went out, that he did not think the shoes would last him there.

Q. Did you observe whether the shoes fitted him well. - A. I did not.

Q. Did he come back in shoes. - A. I do not know, I cannot say whether he did or not.

Q. You saw him again the next day. - A. Yes.

Q. Did any thing pass upon the subject. - A. Yes.

Q. Where did you meet the next day. - A. We met at the bottom of Dyot street; I was at the Turk's head on the next day, I saw them at the bottom of the street.

Q. What passed then. - A. I observed John Holloway when I came to him had a hat better than he usually wore, and that it was too small for him; upon which I asked him whether that was the hat that he had got the night before; he replied it was, and we appointed to meet the following day, which was on the Monday.

Q. Did you meet on the Monday. - A. We did, in the afternoon, I was at the Black horse, Owen Haggerty came to me and informed me that John Holloway was at the bottom of the street, I went to him and observed, that he had the same hat on he had the day before; I told him he acted very improper in wearing that hat, it might lead to a discovery, and I said I hoped he would get it done away.

Q. Did you see the inside of the hat. - A. Yes, upon which he took the hat off and gave it to me, and upon which hat in the inside was the name of Steele, upon which I pointed out the danger he was in by wearing it; he replied, that he would get the lining taken out; I told him there might be some marks about the binding or the buckle that might lead to a discovery, and I desired him that he would get it done away with; he replied that he should meet me again in two or three hours; accordingly he came again in the evening with another hat on, and something tied up in a handkerchief; he asked me if I had any objection of going to Westminster with him and Haggerty; we went into Parliament street together, I said I thought it was advisable to throw the hat over the bridge.

Court. What hat. - A. Mr. Steele's hat, the hat that he had worn in the day, he had got that hat in an handkerchief.

Mr. Gurney. You advised him to throw it over the bridge. - A. Yes, upon which he went on the bridge, and wanted to throw it over, I made an objection, I said it might swim; I went opposite to Astley's and filled the hat with stones; tied the lining over it, and we went on to the bridge to the Westminster side, where I throwed the hat over the bridge into the water.

Q. Now I would ask you in what manner were these two men dressed. - A. John Holloway had a short smock frock, a flannel waiscoat under that, and an old hat, apparently to me like a soldier's old hat.

Q. Was that a sort of dress he put on that day, or his usual dress. - A. His usual dress.

Q.What was he by trade. - A. He is of no trade to my knowledge, he had worked at Mr. Willan's at Marylebone, going with his team as a labourer. Haggerty's dress was a velveteen jacket, swansdown waiscoat, and velveteen breeches.

Q. What was he by trade. - A. He used to follow the bricklayers labourer's work, or plaisterers, or something of that kind.

Q. Was that the only day that he was dressed so or his usual dress. - A. His usual dress, sometimes he had the addition of a pair of blue trowsers on.

Q. You were sentenced to transportation, you were in Langston harbour; did the officer come down to you in November. - A. He came down to me in October or November, he brought me up in the Gosport coach.

Q. You came across Hounslow heath. - A. Yes.

Q. As you were crossing the heath, did you point out any thing to Vickrey. - A. I pointed out to the officer the spot where we first met him, I was going to speak but he silenced me.

Q. Had you told him before you came there, that you would give him a signal. - A. No.

Q. But you made some signal to him. - A. Yes.

Q. But you did not go on, why did he prevent you from speaking. - A. Because there was some people by us on the coach.

Q. Have you since been at the spot with Vickrey and Mr. Hughes. - A. Yes, and the beadle of Hounslow was there too.

Cross examined by Mr. Andrews. Hanfield, it is a long time ago all this that you have been stating. - A. Yes.

Q. How long ago was this. - A. In the year 1802.

Q.Did you make any memorandum of any thing that passed in the year 1802, so as to refresh your memory. - A. No, no other remarks than my own conscience.

Q. Then all that you have repeated to day, is from the mere result of your memory without the assistance of any memorandum. - A. Yes.

Q. When did you first make this discovery, or when did you first repeat this story. - A. At Worship street.

Q. How many months ago. - A. In September or October last.

Q. Then the first time you repeated this story was in 1806. - A. Yes.

Q. How came you first to tell this story. - A. It was by mere accident.

Q. What was that accident. - A. I was in this jail, we were talking of different robberies that had been committed.

Q. You were talking of different robberies. - A. I do not say myself, we were talking of different robberies, and this unfortunate affair came up, when I said that there were only three men in England that knew it, upon which there was a rumour in the jail, that I wanted to turn Nose, (i. e. to betray his associates), upon which I was obliged to vindicate myself in silence; it struck me forcibly that I was in danger from this accident, and I was sorry for having said it on my own account.

Q. You said it by accident, and was sorry for saying it, and so you were sorry for disclosing the truth. A. I was not sorry for saying the truth, I was only sorry for saying it in that place; I was afraid and thought myself in danger.

Q. Should you ever have disclosed it if it had not been for that accident. - A. I do not know that I might.

Q. Why did not you disclose it further. - A. I was in too much fear.

Q. At the time that this murder was committed, you thought it was a cruel thing. - A. I did.

Q. You took no part in this murder. - A. No I did not, no further then being present.

Q. All that you did was to hold Mr. Steele's legs. A. Yes.

Q. But none of the blows were given while you held his legs. - A. I did not say so.

Q. If you thought it was a cruel and savage thing, why did not you resist it. - A. I knew it was of no utility to resist; I did not go out with any intent to murder.

Q. Can you read. - A. Yes.

Q. Then the moment you saw this hat in your companion's custody, you advised him to conceal it. A. Yes.

Q. Though you thought this was a very cruel thing, and at the time you did not chuse to have a share in the murder, you did not go to complain of this murder that had been commited by your comrades. - A. I did not.

Q. What induced you to make this disclosure, when the gentleman, sir John Carter , came to you. A. Compunction of conscience.

Q. How soon did this compunction come on you. A. It came on me ever since it was done, from the first instance of commission.

Q. How happened it then that in the course of four years you did not go before any magistrate to state it. - A. I was too much to my shame, in the habit of vice to think any thing about it, unless when I was sober in bed, or by myself alone, then I felt it bitterly; I was obliged to fly to company, or to drink to dispel my wretched thoughts.

Q. Have you never heard there is a reward offered for the conviction of a murderer. - A. No.

Q. Did you ever hear of any reward being offered for the apprehension of those who murdered Mr. Steele. - A. Yes.

Q. Notwithstanding that you did not make any disclosure. - A. No.

Q. Do you know a person of the name of Wilson. - A.- Yes, I believe I do.

Q. And a person of the name of Welden. - A. I do.

Q. Do you not know Isaac Wise . - A. I do.

Q. Do you know Dalton. - A. I do.

Q. Have you had any conversation with these men concerning this murder. - A. After I was transported I had a conversation with them.

Q. Since last September had you a conversation with Welden, Wise, and Dalton, can you recollect what it was about. - A. No.

Q. You cannot recollect what it was about, was it not about this murder. - A. I cannot say.

Q. Will you swear that you had not a conversation with these men more than once on the subject. - A. I will not.

Q. Will you swear that you cannot recollect whether you had or not. - A. I will not swear that.

Q. But you will swear about this transaction in November 1802, and yet you cannot recollect this transaction. - A. No, I cannot.

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with any body that you had got a something that would put five hundred pounds in your pocket, - A. I said so to a man in the jail, a Mr. Shuter, that a grandfather had died and left me some money, and I thought I should not be able to get it.

Q. Did you never say that by discovering something you could put five hundred pounds into your pocket. - A. No.

Q. You never said, by discovering something you

could put five hundred pounds in your pocket, besides getting your liberty. - A. No.

Q. Then if any body comes forward and swears that they will swear falsely. - A. They will.

Q. It was only compunction of conscience that induced you to make this disclosure. - A. I will swear that.

Q. How often have you been within the walls of this prison. - A. I have been here often, I have been confined in the jail, and. I have been tried and convicted here.

Q. And you were under transportation at the time this discovery was made; what promise was made to you, to induce you to make this discovery. - A. No promise at all.

Q. You had no other motive at all but to unburthen your conscience. - A. I had no other motive.

Q. When you met Holloway, you urged him to go on with the robbery, he did not come to you. - A. He was come for that express purpose, I met him in the street.

Q. You were not at all intending to commit murder. - A. No.

Q. Though the murder was committed, and you knew that the murder had been committed, you did not think it right to go to a justice to get these men committed. - A. No, I did not.

Q. After Mr. Steele was knocked down he went to the other side of the road, partly by your dragging him, and partly by his own exertion; no blows had been given him but by Holloway behind. - A. No.

Q. And the moment you saw this murder done, you went towards Hounslow. - A. Yes.

Q. It was you that proposed the concealing this hat. - A. Yes.

Q.How often have you been a witness for prosecutions. - A. I never was but once before.

Q. How long is that ago. - A. I cannot say, it may be a year and a half.

Q. How often have you informed against persons for burglary to entitle yourself to reward. - A. Never.

Q. Will you swear that. - A. That I will swear.

Q. At the time that you speak of being a witness here, did you come in the character of an accomplice, as you came here to day. - A. I came forward as fellow servant of a man who had committed the crime.

Q. All this you have told is not from any memorandum. - A. I have no memorandums.

Q. What way of life were you in before you were sent on the hulks. - A. I was a hackney-coachman.

Q. How did you get your living. - A. Sometimes by thieving and sometimes by industry.

Q. Who did you drive for. - A. I had many masters.

Q. Do you mean that every day you had a new master. - A. I do not mean that.

Q. How many regiments have you been enlisted in. - A. Several.

Q. So many you cannot tell. - A. I do not know that.

Q. How old are you - A. Twenty-six.

Q. How many regiments have you been in. - A. I cannot imagine how many, I have been in a good many.

Q. Will you take the trouble to enumerate how many regiments you have been in. - A. I have been in the East and West London militia.

Q. That is two. - A. The twenty-sixth light dragoons, and in the twenty-ninth dragoons, and in the army of reserve.

John Vickery ; examined by Mr. Alley. You are an officer of the police office, Worship-street. - A. I am.

Q. Were you at any time directed to go to Cumberland Fort, Portsmouth, for the purpose of apprehending of Benjamin Hanfield , the last witness. - A. I was, I think on the 15th of November last; I found him there, where he was delivered to me by the Captain of the Hulks at Langston Harbour .

Q. On your return to town, when you approached Hounslow-heath, do you remember his having done any thing. - A. When we came to Hounslow-heath, near to a clump of trees, on the right side of the road, between the ten and eleven mile-stone, as we were coming up, he made an observation with his finger, and pointed to the place; we were riding on the outside, at the back part of the coach.

Q. Were there any other persons on the outside of the coach. - A. Yes, there were three or four passengers on the outside.

Q. Did he say any thing. - A. He was about to speak, I told him not to say any thing then, on account of there being passengers on the outside of the coach.

Q. Do you know a man of the name of Dunn. - A. Yes, Joseph Dunn , he was a parish officer for Paddington.

Q. I believe Holloway was apprehended by him. - A. The first time I saw Holloway was at Clerkenwell Prison.

Q. At that time had you communicated to him what he was in custody for. - A. I took him from Clerkenwell Prison to John-street, Bedford-row; when he was outside of the prison with me and Bishop, I read the warrant to him.

Q. You do not know how long he had been at Clerkenwell Prison. - A. Yes, I do, he had been there the night before.

Q. You then read the warrant that you hold in your hand. - A. Yes, that was the next day; the warrant charged him on suspicion of the murder of Mr. Steele, to this he said he was innocent, he said, Oh, Dear! I know nothing about it, I will down on my knees to you and the justice,

if you will let me go; this was in the presence of Bishop.

Q. Did you afterwards apprehend Haggerty. - A. I did, I took him on Saturday, the 29th of November, on board the Shannon frigate in the Downs, laying off Deal.

Q. Did you, at the time you apprehended him, communicate to him what you apprehended him for. - A. No, he was so unwell, he was obliged to be let down out of the ship into the boat; I was apprehensive that he would not live to come to London.

Q. Did you take him before the port-admiral. - A. I did, the same morning the admiral asked him how long he had been a marine, he said about two years; he asked him where he was three years ago, you could hardly hear him answer, he was so very unwell, he said he did not know, I believe that was the word; the admiral then said, pray where was you four years ago, upon that he made no reply, I saw his countenance alter, he would have fallen backwards if I had not have caught him; I then begged the admiral would let him have a little water and a seat to sit on, which was granted him.

Q. Did he answer where he was four years ago. - A. He did not.

Q. Did he give you any description of a hat and a stick. - A. No, he did not.

Q. Before the first examination did Hanfield give you a description of a hat and a stick. - A. He did.

Q. Have you since seen that hat and stick. - A. I have, he did not mention the stick, only the hat; the hat tallied with the description he gave as near as could be in the way it was mangled, it was cut in pieces when I saw it.

Q. Had you an opportunity of seeing Hanfield after you had seen the hat. - A. I think not, he was in the House of Correction, and an order for no one to see him without an order.

Q. Have you since you brought Hanfield to town, been in company with Hanfield to Hounslow. - A. Yes, I have.

Q. Was Mr. Hughes there also. - A. He was.

Q. Did Hanfield point out to you any particular place. - A. Yes he did, we went to the Bell, where we alighted out of the coach, he went on near to the eleven mile stone; when we went from the Bell, I desired him to go on as fast as he liked, and the way he pleased, he then pointed to the left hand side to the clump of trees; he was on the right going towards the powder mills, he turned round on the left, and said we were concealed in that clump of trees, or this I, cannot say which word he used.

Q. In point of fact he pointed out the place. - A. Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. Andrews. You say Haggerty was so ill he could hardly come up to town. - A. Yes, we were obliged to leave him behind at Deal hospital.

JOHN SMITH . - Mr. Gleed. You are a coachman. - A. Yes, I am servant to Mr. Waterhouse, Swan with Two Necks, Lad lane.

Q. In November 1802, what coach did you drive. - A. I was the driver of the Gosport coach.

Q. What time does that coach leave London. - A. At six o'clock.

Q. Did it leave London in November 1802, about six o'clock. - A. Yes.

Q. What time does it get to Hounslow. - A. I suppose about eight.

Q. Do you recollect the report of Mr. Steele being murdered on Hounslow heath. - A. I do.

Q. On that evening do you recollect any thing happening. - A. I heard a man groan twice.

Q. What time was it you left Hounslow. - A. At eight.

Q. How far had you got from Hounslow. - A. Betwixt the trees, and the eleven mile stone; I heard a man moan as though he was in distress, the groans and moans I heard twice; I supposed it to be a man.

Q. Was the first time louder than the second. - A. The first time was louder than the last; and the last more faint.

Q. Was it on the right hand side or the left the sound. - A. On the right hand side, and apparently behind.

Court The right hand side as you were going along. - A. Yes.

Mr. Gleed. Your mistress was a passenger in the coach. - A. She was.

Q. You drove on. - A. Yes I did, I remarked to the passengers, that I thought there was something amiss.

Q. Beside the groans, did you hear any voice. - A. I did not.

Q. How was it with respect to the night. - A. It was a moonlight night, but the moon was shaded at the time.

Court. It seems to me to be unnecessary to call any more witnesses to prove the fact; that Mr. Steele was murdered at that place, that is a matter of fact perfectly established. There is no doubt but the witness, Hanfield, had a hand in the murder; the question is whether the prisoners at the bar had, and whether they were the perpetrators of it or not, you need not call any other witness to corroborate what the coachman has proved, it appears to me to be a fact that cannot be denied. If, however, the gentlemen for the prosecution, are of opinion that any further evidence on this head may be necessary, I shall not pevent it.

ISAAC CLAYTON - Mr . Bolland. You are the beadle at Hounslow. - A. Yes.

Q. Were you so in the year 1802. - A. Yes, I was.

Q. Did you get any thing delivered to you, by a person of the name of Hughes. - A. I do not know whether it was Hughes or no; I rather think it was. I had a stick, a hat, and a pair of shoes they were given to me.

Q. What did you do with that hat, stick and shoes. - A. I brought them and laid them down before sir Richard Ford , at the Red Lion at Hounslow.

Q. Look at the prisoners at the bar, and tell me whether you saw them before to day. - A. Five or six years ago I saw Holloway and Oliver, I saw Holloway with a turnip team, with a man that had a wooden leg of the same name; they had been pulling turnips either at Hanworth or Isleworth in that part that comes towards Hounslow heath, I knew the old man thirty year before that.

Q. Where did you see Holloway. - A. I am not certain whether it was at the Bell public house, or the Tankerville arms; when I was ordered to bring the clothes to Worship street, I saw the prisoner come in the coach to the office, and when I saw Oliver, I thought I knew the man, I looked at him very hard, he said I know you, I says I know you very well, I know'd you at Hounslow, I saw you either at the Bell, or at the Tankerville Arms; I saw you with a man of the same name that had a wooden leg that came out of Buckinghamshire: the prisoner Holloway said, he knew me very well.

Q. Do you know how he was dressed at that time when he came out of the coach, when you saw him go into the public office. - A. I did not take particular notice of his dress, I took notice of his features.

JOSEPH TOWNSEND . - Mr. Gleed. You are a patrol of Bow street. - A. I am, I produce this bludgeon, a pair of shoes, an old hat and a strap.

Q. From whom did you receive them. - A. Of the late sir Richard Ford at the office of Bow street, I have kept them from that time to this.

Q.(to Clayton.) Are these the things that you laid down before sir Richard Ford . - A. Yes, I swear to the strap, shoes, and stick.

Q.(to Hughes.) Did you find these things on the common. - A. I did - not the body of the hat, only the two pieces of the hat, the bludgeon, and the shoes.

Q. Did you deliver them to Clayton. - A. I do not recollect the man's name that took them out of my hand.

WILLIAM BLACKMAN . - Mr. Bolland. Look at the prisoners at the bar and say whether you know them, point them out. - A. This is Owen Haggerty , (witness pointing to him.) I have known him six or seven years, and Holloway about a year and a half.

Q. Do you know Hanfield. - A. Yes, I have known him four or five years.

Q. Have you ever seen Hanfield in the company of Haggerty. - A. They have kept company together for these four or five years; I have seen them at the Turk's head and at the Maidenhead in Dyot street, and at the Black dog in Belton street.

Q. Do you recollect the time that Mr. Steele was murdered. - A. I do, about that time I saw Owen Haggerty , Holloway, and Hanfield together.

Q. How long is that ago. - A. About four years ago, I cannot say exactly as to the time.

Q. You cannot fix the time. - A. No, only about four years ago.

Court. That is only general evidence, it is no otherwise important than to prove a fact, which the prisoners have denied, he has stated his seeing them together, and that they were acquainted with each other.

Blackman. About four years ago, I cannot positively say to the month, I went into the Turk's head, Dyot street, Haggerty was there, he was drest in a velveteen jacket and breeches, and a new hat. I said to Owen Haggerty , you have been in a good thing lately, what are you at now, he said he was working in the country, serving the plaisterers. I said that is two to one.

Q. Did he say where he was working. - A. To the best of my knowledge he said at Hounslow. He said he had tied it up that is as much as to say he had left off thieving.

Cross examined by Mr. Andrews. He said he was working in the country, and had tied it all up. - A. Yes.

EDWARD CROCKER . - Mr. Bolland. You are a Bow street officer, tell me whether you know either of the prisoners. - A. I know Haggerty better than I know Holloway.

Q. Am I to infer from thence that you know them both. - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know Hanfield. - A. I do, I have seen Haggerty and Hanfield in company together several times.

Q. Have you seen them together in any public house. - A. Yes, the Turk's Head in Dyot street, St. Giles, and the Black horse in Dyot street.

Q. Do you remember about three or four years ago meeting them in any public house in Dyot street. - A. About three or four years ago I went into the Turk's head, Dyot street, Haggerty was there, he was drest in a blue jacket, all smeared with lime; he then said he had tied it all up, he had taken to work; he said he served the hawk for the plaisterers; I met with him several times in the street. I have frequently seen him with a stick, he had a lame ancle.

Q. What sort of a stick. - A. A black thorn.

Q. Was it a very large stick. - A. It was not a very large one nor a very long one.

CHRISTOPHER JONES ; examined by Mr. Gleed. What are you. - A. I am a Bow street officer.

Q. Do you know the witness Hanfield. - A. I have known Hanfield three years, Haggerty about five, and Holloway about six months.

Q. Have you seen them together. - A. I have seen Haggerty and Hanfield together in different houses, and in the streets; I believe about three years ago, I have never seen Holloway and Hanfield together.

RICHARD LIMBRICK ; examined by Mr. Gleed. What are you. - A. I am a Bow street officer.

Q. How long have you know Hanfield - A. I have known Hanfield about three years; I have

known Haggerty about five years, and Holloway it may be about two years, not more.

COLLIN M'DANIEL; examined by Mr. Gleed. What are you. - A. I am a publican, I keep the Black horse in Dyot street.

Q. Look at the prisoners, and tell me whether you know either of them. - A. I know one of them, Owen Haggerty , I have known him nine or ten years.

Q. Do you know a man of the name of Hanfield. - A. Yes, I have known him five or six years.

Q. Did you see him and Haggerty together at any time. - A. I have seen them in one box to get her in my own house.

Q. How long ago. - A. Three or four or five years ago.

Q. Have you often seen them there. - A. Not very often.

WILLIAM BEALE ; examined by Mr. Gleed. Where do you live. - A. I live at the Turk's head in Dyot street.

Q. Do you know either of the prisoners. - A. I know them all three; I know Hanfield and the two prisoners at the bar, I have known Haggerty about three years, Hanfield about two years, and Holloway rather better than a twelve month.

Q. Have you ever seen them together. - A. Never all together, I have seen Haggerty and Hanfield together about two years ago at my house.

Q. Do you mean in company or separate. - A. They were both in my tap room.

Q. Were they drinking together. - A. I never saw them drinking together.

JOHN PETERSON ; - examined by Mr. Alley. What are you. - A. I am porter at Billingsgate.

Q. Look at the prisoners at the bar, and tell me whether you have seen them any where. - A. I have known Owen Haggerty about five years, and Hanfield about three years.

Q. I want to know whether you have seen them in company together. - A. I have seen Haggerty and Hanfield together at Mr. Beale's house, at the Turks head, I have frequently served them with beer at that house.

JOHN SAWYER ; examined by Mr. Gleed. I live in Cumberland street, in the Strand, I lived at the Bell at Hounslow in November 1802.

Q. Just look round and tell me whether you know either of the persons of the prisoners at the bar. - A. I have seen this man about Hounslow, (pointing to Holloway); at what time, I cannot exactly take upon me to say; I have seen them two men about Hounslow.

Q. Have you seen Hanfield. - A. I have not the slightest knowledge; of him I left Hounslow in May 1803.

Q. It was before you left Hounslow that you saw the two prisoners. - A. Yes.

Q. When you saw the two prisoners at Hounslow, were they together. - A. I cannot say whether I saw them together or separate, nor do I know that they ever were at our house.

JOHN NARES , ESQ. - Mr. Alley. You are a magistrate of the county of Middlesex. - A. I am.

Q. You attended the several examinations at Worship street office. - A. Yes, I did. On the 8th of December last, the two prisoners were brought before me.

Q. Was the witness Hanfield examined in there presence. - A. He was not.

Q. I want to know Mr. Justice Nares, whether Hanfield gave any account of this transaction, and whether that account was read to the prisoners, or whether Hanfield gave any account of the transaction in the presence of the prisoners. - A. He did, I took it down in writing from him.

Q. In consequence of what he said, did you call upon the defendants to make any allegations, having previous to that read over what Hanfield said. - A. I examined the prisoners separate, I read the account of what Hanfield said to me, and what Hanfield first said in the presence of the prisoners; I examined them apart and took it down in writing, I told them afterwards they chused to sign a true account, that would be given in evidence against them they did not sign it.

Court. You should have told them whether they signed it or not, it would be adduced in evidence against them.

John Nares Esq. I asked Haggerty whether he ever saw Hanfield before, he said I never saw Hanfield to my knowledge before I went into the marines, I was a bricklayer's labourer at the time I enlisted, I had no work, I enlisted with serjeant Holmes in Belton street, I lived at that time in Dyot street, St. Giles'; I was in the habit of going to the Black horse in that street. I was in prison in Tothil fields in May 1802' and remained there till the last day of the session following.

Court. We ought not to regard that account unless it refers to something of this transaction; the account of a man's life may attend to other transactions. I would have the witness only to direct his attention to such parts as relate to the case. - A. This examination was to give an account where he was. -

"In November 1802 I was in prison in Tothil fields, and remained there till the last day of the sessions following, which must be July; work, he said, at that time was scarce, and in the winter I went to Mr. Smith's in Castle street, Seven Dials, he now lives in a court near Castle street, Mr. Humphries was the owner of the house, I believe; I worked for him all the winter; I never was in Dyot street, at the Black horse with Hanfield or Holloway in my life. Macdaniel, who keeps the house, knows me, and his daughter." Then he says -

"That he never was at or near Hounslow in his life. I generally dressed, when out of work, in a velveteen jacket and breeches; then he denies being at the Black dog or

Turk's head with Hanfield, or played with him at shove-halfpenny; then I asked him at another time as to Blackman and the other officers' evidence that they had given; he denied knowing any of the Bow street officers, and that he had ever worked at Hounslow, and that he never said to Blackman that he had worked for a plaisterer at Hounslow. That is all that is material, as to what Haggerty said. In consequence of what he said about working for Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith was sent for and examined in the presence of Holloway and Haggerty. Mr. Smith said he never worked for him at the time; and then the prisoner Haggerty said he would not say where he worked.

Mr. Alley. Did you pursue the same course with respect to Holloway as you had done to Haggerty. A. Yes, Holloway said -

"he knew Benjamin Hanfield , he had seen him three or four times in the street, but never was at any public house with him except after we came out of prison together in the year 1804;" when we went to the Buffalo's head in the New road, but did not drink with him there.

Q. Did he say any thing respecting Dyot street. A. He said -

"he knew Haggerty and had done so about two years and upwards, then he denies ever having been in the company of Haggerty and Hanfield; he said he never was in their company together in his life; I never have been at the Black horse above five or six times for sixteen years. I have not been there for the last five years."

Q. Did he say any thing respecting Hounslow. A.

"He denied ever having been at Hounslow in his life; he said I was never near Hounslow, or worked there in my life." Then when I enquired where he worked in November 1802, he said -

"that he worked for Mr. Rhodes and Mr. Stedman, and for different people." They were all examined in his presence, and they denied that he worked there at the time.

Q. This was Holloway. - A. Yes.

Q. This examination was particularly pointed to the month of November 1802. - A. Yes, and he gave different accounts of who he worked with at that time. I was particular to the month of November 1802.

A. And at each time he stated that during the month of November 1802, he had worked for different persons. - A. Yes, he mentioned several persons, and those persons denied it in all his examinations.

Q. He mentioned the different persons, in consequence of which you brought forward those different persons, and they denied it.

Holloway. The mistake that was made was this - I made a mistake in a year; the persons that I said I had worked for in the year 1802, I worked for them in the year 1803 and 1804.

Mr. Alley. (to Mr. justice Nares) Was that the mistake. - A. They said he had not worked at all for them in 1802, he had worked for them in different years.

THOMAS WALKER . - Mr. Gleed. What are you. - A. I am clerk to Mr. Rhodes, he lives in Hampstead road.

Court. Are you going through all these persons that the prisoner Holloway said he worked with in November 1802; not one of these facts goes to confirm the accomplice.

Mr. Gleed. I will just ask this one witness - you say you live with Mr. Rhodes. - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the person of the prisoner Holloway. - A. Yes.

Q. In the month of November 1802 did he work for Mr. Rhodes. - A. He came to work for us in September 1803, he continued working for us until the 3d of March 1804.

DANIEL BISHOP . - Mr. Alley. You are an officer of Worship street. - A. I am.

Q. Do you remember the different times upon which these men have been examined. - A. I do.

Q. After each day's examination, were they confined in two separate lock up rooms. - A. Yes.

Court. How often were they examined. - A. Seven different times.

Q. When were they taken before the magistrate. - A. The first time was the 8th of December; both of them were taken before the magistrate.

Q. Were they examined all together. - A. Both together.

Mr. Alley. These conversations were between each examination. - A. They were.

Q. You say that after the examinations they were confined to different lock up rooms, describe what sort of rooms they were. - A. There is a strong partition of strong quartering between them, and over that iron plate; they are behind the office.

Mr. Andrews. What are you speaking from. - A. The paper which I have in my hand, I wrote it with my own hand.

Q. That is not the original. - A. I have the original in my pocket.

Court. Then take that, that is the best to refresh your memory. Where was your situation when you heard them. - A. I was put in the privy, within four foot of the lock up room.

Q. Could you hear what they said in the lock up room. - A. When they spoke loud enough.

Mr. Alley. Was there any other person confined there. - No.

Q. Then the conversation that you heard must be the conversation between the two prisoners. - A. It was.

CONVERSATION, December 8, 1806.

Holloway. Owen, are you there; I never heard such a man in my life.

Haggerty. Did you tell them you know'd me. - Holloway. I denied it entirely, I told the justice's I never was in his company in my life. I was astonished when they come to take me. I told them I never was on Hounslow heath in my life.

Haggerty. So did I. Have you got any money - Holloway. No.

Haggerty. I will pay for any thing for you - Holloway. I thank you Owen.

Haggerty. I told them I know nothing of you. - Holloway. They will not take his evidence. I thought you had been saying something.

Haggerty. I do not know what day of the month it was.

Holloway. It is two years since I have seen you, where have you been. - Haggerty. I have been in the West Indies. I told them I had never seen you.

Holloway. He told them about public houses, where we had been, but they can't tell who comes in, or who goes out in the course of a day.

Bishop. That is the end of the first conversation;

the next examination was on the tenth.

Mr. Alley. I do not think that is important.

Mr. Andrews. Pray read a part of the tenth.

Mr. Alley. Begin with the tenth.

CONVERSATION, December 10.

Haggerty. What a villain that must be.

Holloway. - It will be of no use now. I wonder where they got that hat and shoes, they wont fit me. They wont take his evidence; you see they wont now.

Haggerty. It is not fit they should.

Holloway. What a villain; Mac Daniel said he saw you and him drinking together. I don't think they much approve of his evidence now, we shall have a good many hearings yet.

Haggerty. Where are the officers gone now.

Holloway. I do not know. They asked him if that was the stick; I suppose the bloody villain will swear it; what a gallows rogue.

Haggerty. They can't do nothing in it now.

Holloway. They wont take his evidence now; if I had wore half boots I should have left them behind. - Haggerty. Aye, to be sure.

Holloway. It will be of no use what he says, and they think they have found out something.

Haggerty. The murder was done four years ago, and he says he was in the House of Correction; how should he know any thing about it.

Holloway. No man can give a better account of himself than I do, can they. This job will not be settled yet.

Haggerty. Did you work for Stedman this time four years. - Holloway. To be sure I did, I worked for him eighteen months; I dont think they much agree in what he says.

Haggerty. They never asked me much questions at all.

Holloway. But they will before they have done with you. It is four years ago when I worked at Watford for Davis and Barker for five months; he is a gallows rogue; if I was at Stedman's at the time, we never shut up shop before twelve or one; for it seems to hang that way a good deal.

Haggerty. And was not you there.

Holloway. Yes, I was, and that will clear me. The justice asked him if he knew where I worked at that time, he did not know. He be damned, they can't do nothing I see. I am more satisfied with this hearing than I was with the last, an't you. - Haggerty. Yes I am.

Holloway. I think he will bring himself in it at last, if he don't mind. Oh Lord; he will be found out in a hundred lies; what a stick he has got, good Lord.

Haggerty. If they thought his evidence was sufficient, they would have committed us before now. I don't see any of the friends belonging to him come forward.

Holloway. They won't take his evidence before the magistrate at all, I don't think that any thing that he has said is of any use. - Haggerty. No.

Holloway. I will see if I can't get a bit of writing paper; he has contradicted to day a good deal.

Haggerty. Yes, he has.

Holloway. I was a good mind to tell Hanfield it would all fall on himself.

Haggerty. No, never mind that. He has deserted from the Tower Hamlets several times.

Holloway. Why had not you told him that.

Haggerty. No, I denied him.

Holloway. His word wont be taken; what is he to hang people? for you know more about these things than I do; they will be at great deal of expence about the business. I suppose they in the office are some of Mr. Steele's friends - I wont nor can't know any thing about it. I would not give an halfpenny for an evidence, for they can't do any thing without people come forward; what a pair of shoes they brought; if one is cleared we shall both get clear, he ought to know what clothes I had if he was with me.

Haggerty. Where is it you told them you saw me. - Holloway. At the top of Dyot street, you know I must say somewhere thereabouts. There is no proof of any thing yet, nor there won't be none; which way did he say we came over the back fields. - Haggerty. I don't know.

Holloway. I never saw such a stick in my life as he has brought, I have got a hat at home now I had in 1802.

Haggerty. What sort of man is Mr. Stedman. Is he a good man, did he like you. - Holloway. Yes, he did.

Haggerty. Was it in the winter you worked for him. - Holloway. It was.

Mr. Alley. Now the conversation on the 15th of December.

Hag. Any body there but yourself. - Hol. No.

Hag. What do you think of it now. - Hol. I don't know.

Hag. Did you hear him swear I knocked him down. - Hol. No; I don't mind it of a halfpenny, they may all kiss my a - e. They wont mind what Old Red-nose said; it is all dickey.

Hag. Did Hanfield say we took the body and buried it any where. - Hol. He did not say such a word as I heard.

Hol. It was done in November. - Hol. Yes.

Hol. (Singing a seasong.) That red-nose old thief said he saw me at Hounslow; they shall never do me in a thousand years.

Mr. Alley. (to Bishop.) The beadle of Hounslow (the gentleman with the red nose) was examined on that day. - A. He was.

Hol. Where is the man you worked for at Hounslow. - Hag. I never worked at Hounslow.

Hol. I have got a good story to tell them but said but little - all his swearing won't frighten me.

Hag. Don't you know what master you worked for. - Hol. I worked for Dove - they all know you, the traps.

Hag. That's being so much about.

Hol. The old beadle said afterwards he did not know me, for I never work'd where they said, they may laugh and swear as much about Hounslow as they please, but I don't know nothing about Hounslow; we shall have more hearing yet. Who the hell does he suppose to frighten, if they keep me lock-up for a hundred years it is of no use, they say I am honester than you, for you denied him. - Hag. I know him; what clothes did he say I had on, a great coat.

Hol. Yes; if he don't die for it I will be shot. I know that beadle told them what clothes I wore,

they or would never have known it, I was there but once over in Surry.

Hag. Next Monday it will be either one thing or the other. - Hol. Yes.

Hag. Oh lord! what do you think of it now? there is none of them can swear they saw us together at the time; if one is done all is done.

Hol, What all three. - Hag. Yes.

Hol. It is all nothing; if people come from the Bell, Hounslow, it is the same, they don't know us. I know they could not swear before they come, all is of no use, I don't mind not a halfpenny for being lock'd up so, I carries too good a face to be daunted on this suit, I am not afraid of suffering for it.

Hag. Nor I, for I have been very ill, but I am better now.

Hol. It wont be settled next Monday, I think. - Hag. Do you think not - how comeyou to think that.

Hol. I do not know, how it is to be settled when there is no evidences. - Hag. I do not know.

CONVERSATION, December 22.

Hag. What did they say to you.

Hol. There is strong information come against me from Kentish town. The magistrate told me there is nobody there that knows us at all. You know that old beadle, don't you. - Hag. Yes. I like it very well.

Hol. So do I better than ever I did, there is nether of us will suffer for it, he has not got his pardon yet; nor won't have it. - Hag. No.

Hol. They bother'd me so I was a good mind to tell them they might find out where I worked, I told Armstrong I was always singing where I was, it an't as they wish it nor won't be; there is nobody comes forward to say what he does, ten to one if he an't tried for it at last. - Hag. I hope to God he will.

Hol. I laugh always, I don't know whether you do.

Hag. How did I look when I was in. - Hol. I don't know. The people will be tired of coming, it is nothing at all.

Hag. It is all right now.

Hol. I wonder what they think now. I suppose they consult together while we are out, I wonder why they did not examine private to day, I think it will be knocked off very soon, I am damned if they won't clear all Hounslow, we shall be turned up and I will satisfy you for all.

Hag. You never had a better pal in your life than I am. - Hol. No. I never was there but that year; that red nosed old ram was quite behind day; as to you, you have acted very well, I told them, I could not answer for you, I don't care who knows me so as they don't bring me in it. I know very well they think we are innocent; it runs in my head, he stands the worst chance, they an't satisfied now about him.

Hag. No counsel will come for one guinea. - Hol. No, they won't, we shan't be fully committed

Hag. He knows the law so well he must either commit or acquit us.

Hol. I can't think were all them things come from, the hat and bludgeon. (Singing a sea song.) Where have you been. - Hag. To the magistrate.

Hol. What about. B - r them all of a heap, I say, I would sooner be in the middle of hell flames than be here, there is never noboby locked up here but you and I, I wonder where they put them. - Hag. I don't know, it is all right now, I can see that well, what do you think of it now.

Hol. I don't know.

Hag. They are getting very cool upon it I can see that. - Hol. An't they

Hag. Here's luck I wish you as much harm I do myself, why don't you gammon to be ill. - Hol. I would not care a d - for them if I had these irons off.

Hag. He asked me were I worked, I would not tell him, I worked at Gardner's near Bow street, and he has run away since. I can tell the very day and hour where I worked.

CONVERSATION, December 26.

Hol. How do you get on.

Hag. What do you think of it now. We are not com-mitted yet.

Hol. I don't care a damn about it.

Hag. He speaks quite different about it to what he did the first time. - Hol. He does; I wonder what the justice thinks of it.

Hag. I do not know, his evidence will never do; did not he mention that the shoes was yours at first. - Hol. Yes.

Hag. What sort of a head is yours, big or little.

Hol. Big. Mr. Hanfield is a very nice man, ant he.

Hag. Yes, they put words into his mouth.

Hol. He could not tell about a good many things, he said he was not sure; we shant be commited yet a while; it is read over to us to see how we looked. - Hag. Yes.

Hol. He said you and I stopped behind and he went forward. - Hag. Yes.

Hol. I thought there would be some people here to day, did not you. - Hag. So did I.

Hol. Justice Nares does not know what to think about it now. - Hag. No.

Hol. You have been robbing with him he says. - Hag. They cant prove it.

Hol. He is the man that will answer for it all. What was that bludgeon brought for. That made him a liar, I can produce a hat I wore in 1802 if I like at home. It is very odd he did not know what things he wore, I think. - Hag. Yes

Hol. He did not know what money he took from the bloody villain; that gentleman's servant behind was with the bricklayer that found him, I suppose he is going to be examined, ten to one if he don't say something contrary.

Hag. Dont make such a talking.

Hol. I shall tie my handkerchief round my head and gammon sick.

Hag. But not before the traps, for they will put them down.

Hol. If I get commited for this job, I will have a councel; I will have Alley; that is very well in there, but it wont do any where else; it ant very seldom you her of such a job as this from a fellow that is transported; they sent for us to day, to see what they thought of us; his word ant worth one halfpenny, if I was before the lordjudge of England, I should not be asaid of geting clear, lord it is all nonsense. - Hag. He must know the day of the month, and every thing else when he comes there.

Hol. Yes, I do not see why we should be committed upon his evidence. - Hag. Nor I neither, you mark my word if he has not somebody to back his evidence they won't find a bill. - Hol. No.

Hag. I know where I worked every day in November. I know the very street and house, but it

is no use talking here about it.

Hol. It is all nothing at all. - Hag. Yes. I dont see why we should be committed upon his evidence.

Hol. It is a very wrong thing if they let him swear at the Old Bailey.

Hag. Where is it he said we parted with him. - A. At Hounslow.

Hol. Where did he say we had the gin. - Hag At the Black horse.

Hag. We must have had the gin there.

CONVERSATION, February 5, 1807.

Hag. What do you think of it now, we must cheer up, never mind. - A. Hol. I don't know.

Hag. Never mind Holloway, we shall get turned up by and bye.

Hol. But I don't like it much.

Hag. Well Holloway, my boy, are you asleep, don't cast yourself down. - Hol. No, he is a d - d rascal.

Hag. I wonder what is their notion for keeping us here so long before we go before the magistrate. - Hol. They don't know what to do, they can't make head nor tale of his story.

Hag. The best way for us is to insist upon bedischarged or fully committed this time. - Hol. Yes. - What do you think of that fellow.

Hag. I don't know.

Hol. What do you think of it now, they dare not commit us now. - Hag. No.

Hol. That fellow's confession has done him. - Hag. Yes. (Both singing a song.)

CONVERSATION, February 9, 1807.

Hag. We shall go to Newgate now.

Hol. Hanfield has got his discharge, I must get a counsel; I suppose we shall go together to Newgate.

Hag. They have caught him out in a good many lies.

Hol. I should not wonder if they do not find a bill he is a d - d villain. Knapp is a d - d good one, he will bother some of them; Beale's will do more harm than good. I do not know about old Macdaniel, he is a very honest man.

Mr. Andrews. (to Bishop) How could you distinguish the voice of one from another. - A. I knew which rooms they were in

Q. You were four feet distant from them, and the partition you say is strong quartering, with iron plate upon it. - A. In the privy that I sat in there were two panes of glass out of the top.

Q. There was some conversation that you could not hear. - A. Of course I did not take it down.

JOHN ARMSTRONG . - Mr. Gurney. You have a hat in your hand, from whom did you receive it. - A. I received it from the hand of Mr. Humphries, no Thursday the 5th of February, in the presence of the prisoners.

Q. Was Mr. Manby there at the time. - A. I did not know Mr. Manby at that time.

MR. CHARLES HUMPHRIES - Mr. Gurney. From whom did you receive that hat. - A. From Mr. Manby.

Q. Was that hat put on either of the prisoner's heads at the office. - A. It was put on the head of Holloway, the stout man.

Q. How was it with respect to fitting of him. - A. It went quite down on the man's head at the time Armstrong put it on.

Court. Was it put on any other man's head at the office.

Mr. Gurney. This was done only to shew that it would fit him.

Court. And it would fit any other head of the same dimensions.

Mr. Gurney. (to Mr. Manby) Did you bring that hat to the police office. - A. Yes.

Q. Was that one of the late Mr. Steele's hats. - A. Yes, it is one that he had wore a good while, and the lining is out, and it is rather larger by being without the lining, and much worn by some other person; it is a hat of Mr. Steele's.

WILLIAM ROBINSON . - Mr. Gleed. You are a hatter. - A. Yes.

Q. You were a hatter to the late Mr. Steele. - A. I only made him one hat.

Q. Do you recollect the size and dimension of Mr. Steele's hat. - A. Perfectly well, I sold him a hat in March 1802.

Q. We are informed that the prisoner Holloway had this hat put on him; would the hat of Mr. Steele fit the prisoner Holloway. - A. I recollect the size of Mr. Steele's hat, I should have thought it would have fitted him tight.

Cross-examined by Mr. Andrews. How many years is it ago since you sold Mr. Steele a hat. - A. In March 1802.

Q. You never sold him but one. - A No.

Q. Can you remember from March 1802, what the size of Mr. Steele's hat or head must be. - A. Whenever I enter a gentleman's name in the book, I always put the size in the margin.

Q. This hat is rather larger than Mr. Steele's, you say it is an old hat. - A. That is the natural consequence of a hat being much worn.

WILLIAM BRITTEN. Mr. Gurney. I believe you made boots and shoes for the late Mr. Steele. - A. I did.

Q. Have you examined the size of the prisoner Haggerty's leg and foot. - A. I have.

Q. Are you able to say whether he could have worn Mr. Steele's boots. - A. I believe he might.

Q. Have the goodness to look to an old pair of shoes there, do they appear to have been worn by a person that they fitted, or that they had not fitted. - A. They appear to have been worn by a person that they were too long for.

Q. Have you compared them with the feet of Haggerty. - A. I have looked at these shoes, and I have looked at Haggerty's feet; they would be too long for Haggerty, I believe.

Cross examined by Mr. Andrews. There is no doubt, sir, that a shoe of a large man would suit a little foot. - A. They might wear them.

Q. Will you point out how you know that shoe has been worn by a person for whom it was too long. - A. By the toe not coming to the end, the toe is turned up, and the going in of the heel at the bottom.

Mr. Gurney. This is the whole of the evidence on the part of the prosecution.

Court. There is no evidence that Haggerty wore the boots, no boots whatever were found, only a pair of shoes.

Holloway's Defence. Please you my lord, I am brought here by the word of Hanfield, who is an entire stranger to me, please you my lord; I do not know any thing of the man whatever, I have seen the man in the streets, and that is all I know of him; and I think it very odd when he gave information of me, which was the cause of my being taken up, that he could not give the right name, which certainly he would have done if he knew any thing of me, my lord.

Haggerty's Defence. My lord and gentlemen of the jury, I stand here now a prisoner, I stand charged with an offence of which I know no more than a child unborn, although I stand here for it. I hope you will take it into consideration the former character of the witness Hanfield, who merely for the sake of getting his liberty, he has done all this and nothing else. I am perfectly innocent of the crime that I am charged with; it is clear and evident that he has contradicted himself in several places. When he was examined before Mr. Justice Nares, Mr. Justice Nares asked him what sort of a night it was, and what sort of clothes Mr. Steele wore; he replied it was a dark night, and he said he could not inform him of the colour of his clothes. My lord and gentlemen, Mr. Justice Nares is here, and he will inform you of the same.

Court. Would you have me ask Mr. Nares. - A. If you please my lord.

Q.(to Mr. Justice Nares) I am called upon by the prisoner to ask you whether Hanfield in the different examinations contradicted his account that he has given here, with respect to the night whether it was dark or not. - A. No further than he has said here that there was a cloud over the moon, it was dark at the time.

Haggerty. Upon the second examination there was a stick brought forth and a pair of shoes, and when the stick was taken up Mr. Justice Nares asked him if he knew any thing of that stick; he said yes, that was the stick; likewise the shoes were held up, he said them were the shoes that Holloway had; Mr. Justice Nares said to him, I thought you told me that Holloway wore high shoes, he replied no, he did not. Holloway said he never knew the stick. Mr. Justice Nares asked him if he knew any thing of the shoes, Oliver told him he knew nothing of the shoes, he never wore such shoes, that was very well. Upon the third examination Mr. Justice Nares examined the witness Hanfield again; he was asked with respect to what clothes he wore, and likewise his shoes, he told them that he supposed the shoes belonged to Haggerty, he said in reply as they will not fit Oliver, I suppose that they belonged to Haggerty.

Mr. Justice Nares. Hanfield denied knowing any thing of the stick.

Haggerty. Upon the third examination you asked him again, what sort of a stick it was that Oliver had, he made reply, a black thorn stick; upon his first examination he said that was the stick.

Mr. Justice Nares. My recollection serves me so well, I deny what he says about the stick.

JOHN SHUTER. - Mr. Andrews. Do you know Hanfield. - A. Yes.

Q. You are one of the head turnkeys of the jail, - A. I am one of the head turnkeys.

Q. Do you remember Hanfield being in your custody in this goal. - A. Yes, very well.

Q. Did you at any time have any conversation with Hanfield. - A. Yes.

Q. Did he ever make any confession to you. - A.We never had any conversation about this.

Q. Do you know any thing about his confessing any burglary, or any other crime for any purpose. - A. He never confessed to me.



First Middlesex jury, before Mr. Justice Le Blanc.

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