20th September 1797
Reference Numbert17970920-12

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495. JOHN BRIANT was indicted for that he, not having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the devil, on the 19th of July upon Jane Bell , spinster , did make an assault, and her the said Jane, against her will, feloniously did ravish, and carnally know .

JANE BELL sworn. - Q. How old are you? - A. I cannot tell exactly, I suppose, between fourteen and fifteen; I am servant to Mrs. Pollard.

Q. What is she? - A. In the milk business; I have been servant to her, I think, about nine months.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - A. Yes.

Q. When did you first see him? - A. The first time I saw him, was the night it happened, the 19th of July, about nine o'clock; I was putting my mistress's cows in the Green-Park.

Q.Had you put the cows in? - A. Yes; and was going to lock the gate again, when this man came up to me.

Q. How was he dressed? - A. He had a brown coat on; he was not dressed as he is now, he has changed his dress; he asked me if I was putting the cows in, I said, what was that to him; he said, he would go along with me, and I said he should not; he then took me by the two arms, and hauled me from the gate, into the Green-Park; when he found I would not go with him, and there was nobody near at the time, he took me under his arm, he stopped my mouth; I cried out, and he put his hand upon my mouth, so that I could make no noise; he carried me upon Constitution hill , and flung me down upon my back, just by the bason, near the rails.

Q. The upper bason towards Hyde-Park? - A. Yes, near the top of the hill; he flung me down in a hole, upon a slanting place, on the hill; then he sat down upon his knees, and loosened his small clothes; I got away from him, and he got hold of me again, and flung me down again; he took up my clothes, and entered my body.

Q. Though we all understand what is meant, you must tell us what he entered your body with; was it with his hands or with his legs? - A.From tween his thighs.

Q. Was it with his p-ep-s? - A. Yes.

Q. How long did he stay upon your body? - A.About a quarter of an hour.

Q. Did you push him off? - A. No; he had me so that I could not move; I cried out, and a lady and gentleman heard me; I cried out all the time I could, he put his hand on my mouth and hindered me, and I pushed it off again.

Q. Did you feel any thing come from him? - A. Yes.

Q.How came he to get off your body? - A. A gentleman and lady came and pulled him off.

Q. What did he say when they came up? - A. Nothing at all.

Q. Do you know what they said to him? - A. The gentlewoman said, she would not leave him till he was taken up.

Q. When did you see the man again? - A. The next morning, at Bow-street.

Q. Did you ever see him before? - A. No, not to my knowledge; I had never seen him before.

Q. You say, you think you are between fourteen and fifteen, but you do not know exactly? - A. Yes.

Q.Have you ever had any man in your body before? - A. No.

Q. That you swear positively? - A. Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. You are servant to that lady who is a milk-woman? - A. Yes.

Q. I believe your business is to sell milk in the Park? - A. Yes.

Q. You stand with some cows at the entrance of the Park? - A. Yes.

Q. Does your mistress attend you there to take care of you? - A. Yes.

Q. Always? - A. Yes.

Q. You never sit there to sell milk without your mistress? - A.Sometimes I do.

Q.How long have you been employed in the Park? - A. About nine months.

Q. What time do you generally go to the Park in the morning? - A.About six o'clock.

Q. And return about nine at night? - A. Yes.

Q. I take it you go out for the cows by yourself always? - A. Yes.

Q. And return the cows to pasture by yourself in the evening? - A. Yes.

Q. The first-time you ever saw this man, was upon the 19th? - A. Yes.

Q. And the first time that day was at the time he stopped you in the Park? - A. Yes.

Q. That you are positive of? - A. Yes.

Q. Take time, and recollect, whether you had ever before that time been in the company of the prisoner? - A. No, I had not.

Q. You know the nature of the oath you have taken; you have been sworn to tell the truth? - A. Yes; and nothing but the truth.

Q. And you know the consequence of telling a falsehood? - A. Yes.

Q. Tell me whether, upon any occasion before this night, you had ever seen the prisoner? - A. No, I never had.

Q.Has it ever happened at any time, that any man has assisted you to drive the cows to pasture in the Green-Park? - A. No; never.

Q.You are sure of that also? - A. Yes.

Q. Did it happen to you on the evening of the

19th, to have been in any public-house? - A. No.

Q. You are sure of that? - A. Yes.

Q. That you are positive and certain of? - A. Yes.

Q. Were you in Picadilly that evening? - A. No.

Q. Do you know Clarges-street, Piccadilly? - A. No.

Q. Were you ever at the Duke of York's arms, in Clarges-street? - A.No.

Q. I will tell you candidly, that I am instructed to call witnesses to prove the contrary of all this; - now I ask you whether you were not in a public-house, in Piccadilly, on that evening? - A. I am very sure I was not.

Q. Were you on any evening previous to this? - A. No.

Q. Then neither on that evening or any evening before that, were you in that public-house? - A. No.

Q.Had you ever been in a public-house, within a month or two before that, with any man? - A. No, I had not.

Q. All this you are satisfied of? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the Westminster Infirmary? - A. No.

Q. Then you have never been in the Crown public-house, opposite the Westminster Infirmary? - A. No, I have not.

Q. The days are now tolerably short, it begins to get dusk by seven o'clock? - A. Yes.

Q. You do not continue selling milk till nine o'clock? - A. No.

Q. How happened it you should be so late this evening as nine o'clock, before you drove your cows to grass-

Court. This was the middle of July.

Mr. Alley. I beg your Lordship's pardon, I did not observe that. - Was it between eight and nine, or near nine? - A. Just about nine.

Q. It was very light then? - A. We always put our cows in at that time.

Q. It was very light then? - A. Yes.

Q. And there were a great number of people in the Park? - A. Yes.

Q. Had you locked the gate when the man met you? - A. No.

Q. Did you lock the gate before he was done speaking to you? - A. I Never locked the gate at all.

Q.Was it in the Green-Park that the cows pasture, or in St. James's Park? - A. In the Green-Park.

Q. Did this gate communicate immediately with St. James's Park? - A. Yes.

Q.You know there is a gate which leads out of St. James's Park into a foot-way, upon which you turn to the left hand through the Green-Park, was that the gate? - A. No, it was a gate below that, which goes into the Green-Park

Q. Is it a lock that requires a key to be turned before it is locked, or does it lock itself? - A. It requires a key to be turned.

Q. He carried you in his arms to the top of the hill? - A. Yes.

Q. There is a path-way along the bason? - A. Yes.

Q.It was near the bason that he took you? A. Yes.

Q. What was the reason that you did not cry out till the people came up? - A. I could not, because he had his hand upon my mouth.

Q. Some people came up, and heard you crying out? - A. Yes; they came and assisted me.

Q. When the man first stopped you and took hold of you, did you cry out? - A. He stopped my mouth when he took hold of me first.

Q. You ran away from the man once? - A. Yes; and he got held of me again.

Q. What was the reason you did not run away sooner? - A. Because I could not, he was too strong for me.

Q.As he always had the same sort of strength; why did not you run away sooner? - A.While he was loosening his small clothes, I ran away from him.

Q. This was at nine o'clock in the evening, and a great many people in the Park? - A. There were a great many people in the Park walking about.

Q.This place is very near the public path, where the people are walking up and down, at that time in the evening? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you mean to say you cried out, and none of those people came to your assistance? - A. There were none there at that present time.

Q.Then what did you mean by telling me there were a great many people there? - A. They were walking about, there was not any body at the gate.

Q. There are sentry boxes there, are there not? - A. Yes.

Q.Very near this place? - A.Not very near.

Q.Could not those sentries have heard you if you had cried out? - A. I do not know.

Q. Do you mean to say that you cried out when he first laid hold of you, and yet nobody came to your assistance? - A.Nobody.

Q. You have told us that he put his hand upon your mouth, and you pushed it off, and he put it on again? - A. Yes.

Q.Why did you not push his hand off your month at one time as well as at another? - A. He held me that I could not.

Q. Did he carry you with both his arms up this hill? - A. He held me fast under his arm with his coat tail, and he held the other hand upon my mouth.

Q. Then both his hands were employed, one in carrying you, and the other upon your mouth? - A. Yes.

Q. Now I will put the question to you again-Have you never been in a public-house with the prisoner at the bar? - A. Never.

Q.You never met him before in the Park? - A. No.

Q.Then although this man was a total stranger, he attacked you in this manner, and carried you up the Park, for the purpose of doing what you have been telling us? - A. Yes.

Q.What is the matter with you now, you are unwell I think? - A. I am very unwell.

Q. I believe you have at this moment got the bad disorder? - A. Yes; I have been very ill ever since it happened.

Q. You have been very bad indeed, with lumps, and sores, and ulcers about your groin? - A. Yes.

Q. Those sores appeared upon you, I believe, the day after? - A.Two or three days after.

Q. You were not examined for two or three days after? - A. I was examined the next day after.

Q. Is the surgeon here? - A. Yes.

Court. Q. Now, my girl, you say, upon your oath, that no man had been with you before that? - A. No.

Q. And since that time you have had this soul disease in a bad way? - A. Yes.

Q. Has any man had to do with you since? - A. No.

JOHN SMITH sworn. - I was in the Green-park on the 19th of July.

Q.What are you? - A. A servant out of a situation at present.

Q. Were you out of place then? - A. I was.

Q. When were you in company with Sarah Scott? - A. I was walking with her towards Hyde-park.

Q. Do you remember seeing that child that was examined? - A. Yes; a little after nine o'clock.

Q. What led you towards the child? - A. I was walking across the Park, when I heard the cries of somebody, and she persuaded me to go up to her, and accordingly I did; I found this girl screaming, and the man down.

Q. How far were you off when you heard the cry? - A. Not a great distance; as I was coming along the grass I heard the screams of this girl.

Q. What man was it? - A. The prisoner at the bar.

Q. Are you positive as to the man? - A. I cannot say positively.

Q. Is it like the man? - A. Yes; I have reason to believe it is the man.

Q. You say he was down, how do you mean? - A. He was by the side of her.

Q. How by the side of her? - A. To the best of my recollection he was upon her.

Q. In what condition were his small clothes? - A.When I spoke to him he got up, and buttoned his small clothes; to appearance they were down.

Q. Did you say any thing to him? - A. I called him rascal, and asked him what he was about with the child, or something to that effect; he said, what was it to me, the girl belonged to him, he knew the girl; upon that he got up, and the girl was listed up by her arm.

Q. Who listed her up? - A.Sarah Scott; I asked the girl if she knew any thing of him; she seemed to hesitate, and said, she knew nothing of him.

Q. What was the hesitation? - A. She said, no, Sir, I do not know any thing of him; the man then ran away, and I followed him; there were several people passing and re-passing at that time towards Hyde-park.

Q. Were there many people passing and repassing where the child was crying? - A. No.

Q.Where the girl was down there were no people? - A. No People at all; I took him by the collar, and brought him back to the girl; and then, by the persuasions of the girl that was with me, I took him to the girl's mistress.

Q. And you took the girl there too, I suppose? - A. Yes; there I left him, and a constable was sent for, who examined his linen; his name is Bligh.

Q. Were you present? - A. Yes.

Q.Was the surgeon present? - A. No; not till we went to Bow-street, next day.

Q. Did you see his linen examined? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you observe any particular mark? - A. No, not any in the least.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. I understand you, that you were not quite certain whether he was by the side of her, or at the top of her? - A. I have every reason to believe, to the best of my recollection, that he was upon her.

Q. When you asked what he was about with that girl, he said he knew her? - A. Yes.

Q. She did not then say that she did not know him? - A. No; there was no answer made from her till after.

Q. You examined this man, and no sort of mark was found whatever? - A. Yes.

Court. Q. Was it a clean shirt? - A. Yes; it appeared as if it was put on that day.

Q. How long do you suppose he had worn it before you examined it; did it appear quite a clean shirt? - A. I should suppose it must have been put on that day, or the day before.

Mr. Alley. Q. And it was perfectely pure, free from stain? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you suppose, if a man had been connected with a girl for the first time, having a gonorthea upon him, it would not have left a stain? - A. I should think so.

SARAH SCOTT sworn. - I was walking with John Smith in the Green-park.

Q. You heard some cries of a child? - A. Yes; and the cries that I heard were shocking for any human species, almost, to bear it; I asked John Smith to go up; he rather refused it, and I went up myself, and immediately he followed me; I found the man's hands and the girl's hands spread upon the green grass, his hands were upon her hands, and his small clothes were down between the girl's knees; upon which, I asked him if he was not a rascal.

Q. What did he say? - A. He did not say any thing at all; I asked him if he was not a rascal for being connected with such a child; I told him there were plenty of unfortunate women that he might take his pleasure with, better than a child; he immediately got up, and I laid hold of him; I collared the man, and he told me that the girl belonged to him, not to me, and then he ran away; Mr. Smith pursued after him.

Q. Was he upon the girl? - A. He was down upon the girl.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. Are you a married woman? - A. Yes.

Q. How happened it you were in the Park at nine o'clock at night? - A. It was to meet Mr. Smith.

Q. Mr. Smith is not your husband? - A. No. Smith. I am a total stranger.

Q.(To Scott.) You were walking through the Park, at nine o'clock at night, with Smith a total stranger? - A. Yes; talking about family affairs between my husband and me.

Q. Is your husband in this country? - A. No.

Q. Where were you married? - A.At Lambeth church.

Court. Q. Do you know the prisoner? - A. I knew him by sight.

Court. Q. Can you speak to his being the man? - A. I believe him to be the man.

JAMES BLIGH sworn. - I am a constable; I took the prisoner into custody, on the 19th of July, in the evening, about half after ten, as well as I can recollect, at the house of Mrs. Pollard, in the Horse-ferry-road.

Q. Did you examine his linen? - A. Yes, I did, after I had taken him to prison; as we went up stairs, I had a light, and pulled his shirt out of his breeches; I desired Smith to come upto see it, I thought it was necessary; it did not appear to be stained.

How long did the shirt appear to have been worn? - A. Not more than a day or two at most.

Q. Did you examine his breeches to see if he had any cloth? - A. No, I did not.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. Did you see his p - e p - s at that time? - A; I do not think I did.

Q. Did there appear to be any thing in his breeches but his shirt? - A. I did not look into his breeches.

Q. He had not had an opportunity of changing his linen? - A. No.

Jury. Q. Did you examine his pocket to see if he had any handkerchief about him? - A. No, I did not.

Court. Q. You carried the man before a Magistrate the next day? - A. Yes; but I was not present at the examination.

Q.(To Smith.) You saw the man get up from the girl? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you observe anything then in his breeches? - A. Nothing at all; he buttoned his breeches, and then took to his heels.

Q. He did not appear to be putting any thing in order, any cloth, or any thing? - A. No, he did not.

Mr. WINTERBOTHAM sworn. - I am an apothecary: I examined the girl on the 20th of July, at Sir William Addington 's desire.

Q. What did you observe? - A. Upon taking up her clothes, I observed great marks of violence; she appeared to have been much tumbled upon the grass, and her clothes were coloured with the grass.

Q. What marks did you observe upon her body? - A. There seemed to have been a connection; to all appearance he had entered the body.

Q. Did it appear as if the body had been entered for the first time? - A. There was no lasceration, no blood; but there appeared to be human semen upon the private parts.

Q. Was the hymen broke? - A. There was no appearance of it.

Q. Did it appear as if she had been entered for the first time? - A. To all appearance.

Q. How should there be that appearance if there was no lasceration, and no blood? - A. From the smallness of the parts, and the appearance of violence, I could not suppose she had been a common girl; I cannot say, positively, that it was the first time; it is my opinion, that he had endeavoured to enter, and I observed the semen.

Q. Without supposing her to be a common girl, do you think she might have had any man with her before? - A. No, not in my judgment.

Court. (To Bell.) Q. Who has attended you since? - A. One Mr. Andrews.

Court. Q. Is he here? - A. Yes.

JOHN ANDREWS sworn. - I am a surgeon; The first time I attended the girl, was on the 10th of August, I was called to her assistance by Bligh, the constable; I examined her, I found a considerable swelling, a great deal of inflammation, and a considerable discharge, arising, apparently, from an intercourse with some male person or other.

Q. Did you perceive any appearance of lasce

ration? - A. The parts were so diseased that I could not tell; I cannot pretend to say that the disease was infectious; the same appearances might have arisen from violence, independent of infection.

Q. Then you do not undertake to say it was the venereal disease? - A. No.

Q. You have attended the child; has she now a venereal disease? - A. No; I do not call it a venereal disease; my brother has attended her as well as myself.

Q. You can now say, for a certainty, whether it is or not? - A. I am inclined to think it is, but I cannot positively say; the same appearances may have been produced by violence, merely; I treated it as venereal, in order to guard her constitution against any future attack.

Q. Then, if those appearances might proceed from violence, merely, could you judge from the parts whether there had been an entry into those parts? - A. I could not; the swelling was so considerable.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. If you had not heard any thing about a rape you would have thought it was venereal, should you not? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you observe upon the labia pudorus any ulcer? - A. No; a general inflammation.

Q. There is no doubt but recent inflammation will cause considerable swelling, and change the appearance? - A. Yes.

Court. Q. Is it more likely that a venereal complaint would have abated from your treatment of her, or a complaint originating merely in violence? - A. The complaint that originated in violence, provided she was kept pretty quiet.

SARAH POLLARD sworn. - I am the girl's mistress: She was brought home to me upon the 19th of July; I examined her about ten o'clock at night, there was a great deal of human nature upon her, and by the appearance of that, I thought she had been violently used.

Q. Did you take any care of her that night? - A. I got her some brandy, and she used some pomatum; she got up at six o'clock in the morning, and I took her with me to the Park, my business wholly depended there; she staid with me there till between ten and eleven, and then I took her to Bow-street; she was never out of my sight all that time, not yet out of the hearing of my voice.

Q. How did the girl behave before that? - A. She was a modest good girl, as ever came into a house; she used to put her cows in, and was almost always in my sight; she never had any followers, nor kept any company, I used generally to go with her to see her put her cows up.

Q. She did not go to ale-house then? - A. None at all; I have had her ever since this happened always under my care, and very rarely out of my sight; the farthest she has been out of my sight has been to Mr. Drummond's the bankers to get some water for my breakfast, I serve them with milk, it is only round the corner of Spring-gardens.

Q. And, when she has gone there, has she never staid an improper time? - A. No, she has not.

Q. How came you not to send for any body to attend her? - A. She walked lame, and was sick at her stomach, and I thought she might have overwalked herself, till I examined her, and found a swelling, and then I went to Mr. Bligh, and he got a gentleman to come; before this happened, she was as clean and fair a girl as ever sun shone upon, for I had examined her about the course of human nature, and she did not know what I meant, she was then perfectly clear.

Q. Has she had any of her menses since this happened? - A. Once.

Q. Had she had any before? - A. None before.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - A. I never saw him to the best of my knowledge, till he was brought a prisoner to my house; he is the person that damaged that girl, for a more virtuous girl never came into a house than she was before that, and a girl that I could trust with untold gold.

Cross-examined by Mr. Alley. Q. You have given this girl a very good character, how long has she lived with you? - A. About eight or nine months.

Q. Had you a character with her before? - A. Yes; from No. 13, Pimlico.

Q. That was where her aunt lived, was it not? - A. Where she lived servant, I had her character from.

Q. Has not she quarrelled with her aunt, and for that reason was turned out? - A. No; I have seen her aunt twice since.

Q. Has the aunt assisted in prosecuting? - A. No; I answer for the girl myself.

Court. Q. Have not the Justices directed the prosecution? - A. I have not asked any advice from any gentleman whatever.

Mr. Alley. Q. You know the prisoner at the bar, do not you? - A. I never saw him till that night.

Q. Is not he a milk-man? - A. His wife is a milk-woman.

Q. Has it happened that this woman and you have had a quarrel about the loss of a customer? - A. No.

Q. You never had any words with her? - A. Not concerning any business at all; never in my life.

Q. Never? - A. Not about my customers.

Q. What was it about then? - A. I met her coming past the Horse-ferry road, since this affair, and she asked what I intended to do; I told her it should take the law, and she behaved very insolent, and called me an old bawd.

Court. Q. Had you any quarrel with her be

fore this? - A. No; I had never spoke to her in my life, nor did not know her till after I had been before the Justices.

Mr. Alley. Q. Do you mean to tell me, that before this, you never had any quarrel with her about any customer? - A. Never in the universe, in my life, I never spoke to her.

Q. I tell you she is here? - A. I never spoke to her before.

Q. You have told us that this girl was generally in your presence? - A. She was.

Q. You go about the town with milk? - A. Yes.

Q. Does the girl go about with you, when you are going about the town? - A. Sometimes.

Q. Do not you most usually leave her in the Park? - A. No; I have another servant, and I generally leave her there, and my daughter; at six o'clock in the morning she gets up, and gets the cows out of the Green-Park, and I meet her on the milk walk; if she is out of my sight, there is another guard over her.

Q. This girl was a servant? - A. Yes.

Q. To do your business like other servants? - A. Yes; when she was in health to do it.

Q. I want to know whether it was not usual for her, as your servant, to go with the cows, and attend them herself? - A. No, she did not.

Q. Did you always go with her? - A. Or somebody else; there are three or four servants sometimes go together.

Q. How came she to go by herself that night? - A. It is very hard that I should be obliged to have one servant to guard another for four hundred yards for fear of that man.

Q. You have told us she never went into the ale-houses, you mean in your presence? - A.Nor out of my presence.

Q. You will swear that? - A. I will not swear that.

Court. Q. She was not that sort of girl? - A. No, She was not; she was always a girl very particular to keeping her time.

Prisoner's defence. The girl has been different times in my company before that evening.

For the Prisoner.

THOMAS WEBB sworn. - Examined by Mr. Alley. Q. I believe you are surgeon to the prison in which this man has been confined? - A. I am.

Q. Have you examined him, and can you state whether within any recent time he has had a venereal complaint? - A. When I examined him, he had not the least appearance of having had a recent venereal complaint upon him.

Q. Do you think it possible for such a girl to have the hymen ruptured and no lasceration? - A. No; there must have been a discharge of blood, and appearances of being ruptured by force.

Q. Does that depend upon the size of the girl, or upon her strength? - A. Upon her strength, and upon her youth.

Q. Then, if in a girl, the hymen had been ruptured, must it not have been discovered when she was examined? - A. It would be impossible for long a time after.

Q. But do you suppose it possible for the surgeon who examined her the next day, to have passed it by? - A. I should think impossible.

Court. Q. You were in Court at the time Mr. Winterbotham was examined? - A. Yes.

Q. He is not a surgeon, he is an apothecary; do you think it possible that he, not having much knowledge of the business, might overlook an appearance of that kind? - A. I should think it almost impossible for any person to have observed the parts but they must perceive whether the hymen had been ruptured, and whether such force had been used as to enter the body of that girl.

Q. Consider this girl's age; might not the hymen have been ruptured by some accident before? - A. Most assuredly.

Q. She was a hard working girl, and out early in the morning, supposing it to have been so, might she not have had those appearances, though it was only the first time of a man having been with her? - A. I do not conceive it possible for any man to have entered the body of a girl of that age, without causing a lasceration upon the parts.

Q. Mr. Andrews speaks of marks of great violence that appeared upon the 10th of August, might not those appearances be where a girl had been entered by a man for the first time, three weeks before? - A. Those appearances, I should have thought, would have taken place at least in the course of forty-eight hours.

Q. She was examined within fourteen hours after by Mr. Winterbotham? - A. She was then free from the inflammation which would increase in the course of two or three days.

Court. (To Mrs. Pollard). Q. How soon did you perceive any swelling? - A. I cannot say to a day, it might be between four and five days, that she could not be able to sit.

Q. You did not perceive any swelling the first night? - A. No; the first night about twelve o'clock, I carried her a bit of pomatum, and on her thighs I saw what was human nature upon her.

Q. You saw her courses coming? - A. Something of that nature.

Q. Did you perceive any thing of man's nature? - A. Yes, both; there was between two and three table spoonfuls of blood, or thereabouts, came from her; I gave her some hot brandy, and she said, help me, mistress, help me, mistress, for I am very bad.

Q. Did you consider that blood as her courses, or in consequence of violence? - A. Violence.

Q. Did it continue upon her? - A. No.

Q. You did not perceive any swelling till between four and five days after wards? - A. No.

Q.(To Mr. Andrews). Do you suppose such circumstances as Mrs Pollard has described, likely to appear from violence? - A. Very probable.

Q.(To Webb). What do you think of it? - A. It is certainly very propable.

JAMES KELLY sworn. - Mr. Alley. Q. Do you know the prisoner? - A. Yes.

Q. Have you known him any length of time? - A. Yes, sixteen years.

Q. Do you recollect when it was he was taken into custody? - A. On the 19th of July.

Q. Do you recollect seeing him at any time in company with any person? - A. On the 19th of July, I saw the prisoner at the York arms, in Clarges-street; I went in with Ann Croning to have a pint of beer.

Q. What time of day was it? - A. A Quarter before nine o'clock at night; we went in and called for a pint of porter, we sat down, when the prisoner at the bar and the young woman came in together.

Court. Q. What young woman, do you see her in court? - A. That is her, (pointing to the girl); I have seen her twice.

Q. Are you sure she was in company with him that night? - A. Yes; she had a blue coat and a beaver hat on; they called for a pint of ale; I said to Ann Croning , that is a man that I know very well; I asked him if he would have some porter, and he said, no, he was in a hurry; and they had a pint of ale, and drank it, and went to the bar, and had a glass of rum each; they went into the house about ten minutes before nine o'clock; I saw them afterwards in the Park going together towards the bason.

Q. Have you ever seen them together before? - A. Yes; on the 18th of July, they were discoursing together at the gate where they drive the cows in at, which goes into the Green-Park.

Court. Q. You followed them into the Park on the 19th of July? - A. Yes; because that was my way home.

Q. Did croning follow too? - A. Yes.

Mr. Alley. Q. How happened you to call in at that public-house? - A. I worked for my master at Knightsbridge, and I came along home through the Park; I live in Scotland-yard.

Q. You have seen him in company with her before? - A. Yes; on the 18th, but I did not speak to them.

Q. That was the day before? - A. Yes; much about nine o'clock in the evening, when I was coming home from my work.

Examined by the Court. Q. You saw this child and the prisoner come into the York arms about ten minutes before nine? - A. Yes.

Q. How long did they stay? - A Not above five minutes.

Q. Then you saw them go into the Park again? - A. Yes.

Q. Which way did they turn when they went into the Park? - A. They turned to the right towards the bason.

Q. The evening before, you saw him about nine o'clock? - A. Yes; he was standing within side of the gate where they put the cows into the Park.

Q. That was towards Buckingham house? - A. Yes; between Buckingham house and the King's palace.

Q. Where were you going then? - A. I was in the Park, within about one hundred yards of the gate.

Q. What way did you come into the Park? - A. At Constitution-hill, above the Ranger's.

Q. Did you speak to the prisoner? - A. No, I did not, that night, but that made me take particular notice of him the next night, seeing him along with this girl.

Q. What are you? - A.A smith by trade.

Q. Were you within the rail, or without the rail? - A. I was within the rail when I saw them first.

Q. How came you not to come down Constitution-hill, on the 19th? - A. I came down Picadilly with Ann Croning , or else I should have come that way.

Q. Why did you not speak to him? - A. Because I saw him talking with the young woman, I did not like to trouble my head with it.

Q. It was a child, was it not, not a woman? - A. I did not take notice.

Q. You cannot say, whether it was a child or a woman? - A. She looked to me as tall as some women.

Q. When you saw her the next night, at the Duke of York's-arms, had she the appearance of a woman then to you? - A. She had the appearance of a young woman to me then.

ANN CRONING sworn. - Examined by Mr. Alley. - Q. Do you know the prisoner? - A. If I saw him, I should know him again - that is the man.

Q. Was there any body in company with you? - A. Yes; James Kelly .

Q. When was it? - A. The 19th day of last July; I saw him in Clarges-street, Piccadilly, at a public-house, at the very tip-top of the street.

Court. Q. Not towards Piccadilly? - A. No; the upper part, the Duke of York's-arms.

Mr. Alley. Q. How came you there? - A. There was a first cousin of mine going to Bristol; I set off from Ratcliff highway to see him on the way.

Court. Q. Where did you meet with Kelly that night? - A.Between the Green Park-gate and the top of the street, out by Knightsbridge.

Q. What gate of the Green-Park? - A. By the bason; I was coming from Knightsbridge, whether Kelly was going towards me, or the other way, I do not know, for he came across me.

Q.Whereabout was that? - A. About twenty yards from the Green Park-gate, or thereabouts, as near as I can tell.

Q. He overtook you, did he? - A. I cannot tell whether he was before me or behind me; he came unawares upon me, and spoke to me; he asked me to have something to drink, and he took me to a public-house in Clarges-street, and we had a pint of porter.

Q. Where was your cousin? - A. He was gone off for Bristol, and I was returning home.

Q. Who did you see at this public-house? - A. The prisoner came in while we were there.

Q. What time of night was it? - A. As near as I can tell, about half past eight.

Q. Had you or Kelly a watch? - A. No; but there was a dial in the box, there were four boxes in the tap-room.

Q. Did any body come in along with the prisoner? - A. Yes, a young woman.

Court. Q. Was she a grown woman? - A. She was not so high as me.

Q. As high as your shoulders? - A. Yes, about that size, as near as I can tell; I took a great deal of notice of her; I wondered to see the little young body making so free, and so forward with that man.

Q. Do you see her here about? - A. That is not the woman, that is not the woman, but that is her, that fresh coloured girl, (pointing to Bell;) I will take my oath again, twenty times, that that is the woman that was along with the prisoner, they were drinking a pint of ale, and when they had drank it, they went to the bar, and called for a glass of rum, and they had a glass of rum each.

Court. Q. How long did they stay in the house? Not long; I was sitting and looking at them; what made me look more at them, was, that Kelly told me he had seen them the night before, and he said, see how forward that little body is, and I said, it was a pity; Kelly went to the bar and paid for the porter, we went away through the park, down Constitution-hill, and we saw them in the park.

Q. What time of night was it? - A. About a quarter before nine o'clock.

Q. What gate did they go in at? - A. By the bason, at a little gate that there is going in.

Q. Did they wait any time while the gate was opened? - A. They had just got into the park before us, I stopped for James Kelly to pay for the beer.

Q. How far were they from you when you went into the Park? - A. A dozen yards, as nigh as I can tell, they turned to the left-hand; directly as they got into the Park they were standing talking together, I heard the man say, will not you go with me; and she said, yes, sir, yes, sir, I will go along with you.

Q. Was that when they were in the Park? - A. Yes.

Q.Whereabout were they standing talking? - A. By the bason.

Q. And you were twelve yards from him? - A. Yes; and we left them laughing and talking together; what they did afterwards I do not know; if she was not willing to go with him she had no business there at that time of night.

Q. How long did they stay talking together? - A. We left them talking together.

Q. You did not see them go off? - A. No.

Q. Kelly heard her say she would go with him? - A. Yes; and he smiled and I smiled at it.

Q. What business are you? - A. A green grocer, in Ratcliff-highway.

Q. How was the child dressed? - A. In a little spotted dark gown, and a spotted handkerchief upon her neck.

Q. What had she upon her head? - A. A man's beaver hat.

ELIZABETH BURN sworn. - Examined by Mr. Alley. Q. Do you know the prisoner? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the prosecutrix? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you recollect, at any time, seeing the prosecutrix and the prisoner together? - A. Yes.

Court. Q.What person did you see? - A. The young woman.

Q. Where have you seen her since? - A. Every day, in St. James's Park.

Q.Do you know her? - A. Yes; she is here,(points to her).

Mr. Alley. Q. Had you any conversation with her about the prisoner? - A. Yes; as she was sitting with her cows in St. James's Park, on the 4th of this month, about ten minutes before three o'clock, the girl asked me how I did; and I said, how do you do, my dear.

Q. Had you ever seen her before? - A. Yes, frequently; I asked her what she meant to do; and she said, she did not know what to do; that she was to leave it to her mistress, her mistress was preparing to send her to the hospital; I asked her if she had not known the man before; she said, yes, I drank three times with him before; how came you to swear so, my dear; she said, I cannot tell what I swore; and she said, she came to her mis

tress without a character, and if her mistress would let it be she did not mean to hurt him; she said, she wished she had never come to her mistress, she had no clothes, and her mistress never gave her any thing; she said, if I wanted a girl she would be willing to come to me.

Q. Did she say she had applied to any man about a place? - A. Yes; she said she asked the prisoner to get her a place, that her mistress used her very cruclly; and she said, she would go if she got a shilling a week, for she had no wages.

Q. Do you ever recollect seeing the prisoner and this girl in company? - A. Yes; on the 15th of July.

Q. Where was it? - A. I was going to Squire Hickes's, at Buckingham-gate, on Saturday night, about ten minutes after nine; I saw her coming out of the Crown ale-house, in York-street, facing Westminster hospital.

Court. Q.Whereabout is the Westminster-hospital? - A. It is the Westminster infirmary.

Q. How far from Buckingham-gate? - A. About three minutes walk; I live in Great Peter-street, it is in my road to Buckingham-gate.

Q. Did you see them together at any other time? - A. Yes, on Sunday the 16th of July, between six and seven o'clock in the evening; I saw the prisoner and a child of three years old, and he went towards her, where she sold her milk at Springgarden-gate, he had a halfpenny worth of milk for the baby; I came by them, and they were in conversation for the space of ten minutes, and he saluted her, and went away.

Mr. Alley. Q. What do you mean by saluting her, do you mean kissing her? - A. No; she said, good by, Sir.

Q. Was any body with the girl at the time, attending the cows? - A. I did not take notice; I did not see any body with her.

Mr. Alley. Q. Did she say any thing about money at the time? - A. She told the prisoner she was willing to go with him.

Court. Q. When was that? - A. The 15th of July; I stood very nigh, and heard the conversation; I heard her say, I wish you would, if you hear of a place, let me know; he said he would; for, said she, my mistress uses me very cruelly; will you come and live with me; yes, I will; when shall I see you again; the next day, she replied; and they shook hands, and he went away.

Q. Did you see any person with him in Newgate? - A. Yes, yesterday; there were Mrs. Pollard and a young woman, Jane Scott, with him.

Q. Did you hear any thing about money? - A. Yes.

Q. Tell us what it was? - A. She came to tell him that he would not come to any hurt, that the girl did not wish to appear, and did not wish to hurt him, if he would make her recompence, and pay her expences; he said, no, he had nothing to say to her, he would leave it to the Gentlemen in Court; that he was not guilty, and he would leave it to the Gentlemen; she said she must not be a loser, she was under a forty pound penalty to appear, and she could not afford to pay that money unless somebody appeared, and if any money was paid she was willing to make it up.

Q. Have you ever known any quarel about Mrs. Pollard's losing any customers in selling milk? - A. Yes.

Examined by the Court. Q. When was that, before or after this happened? - A. After.

Q. Who are you; how do you get your livelihood? - A. I am the prisoner's housekeeper.

Q.Are you married to him? - A. No; I have been his housekeeper going on of five years.

Q. What way of life is he in? - A. In the milk business.

Q. Upon your oath you are not married to him? - A. No.

Q. Do you pass as man and wife? - A. No; I pass as his housekeeper.

Q.When was the first time that you saw the prisoner and this child together? - A. The first time that I saw them together was the 15th of July.

Q. Where were you at that time? - A. I was going to Squire Hicks's.

Q.Were you with the prisoner? - A. No; he was coming home from his work; he worked at Kensington.

Q.When was the next time? - A. Sunday the 16th, between six and seven o'clock.

Q. The first time you saw him speaking to her was coming from his work? - A. Yes.

Q. What time of the day? - A. About ten minutes after nine; she used to drive her cows into the Green-park every night; about that time he was coming from Kensington, and they came together from the Green-park.

Q. You saw them in the street together? - A. Yes; I saw them at the Crown ale-house.

Q. I thought you said you saw them in the street; how was he coming from his work if he was coming out of the ale-house? - A. They went in there to have something to drink, in his way from his work.

Q. Then the second time was when? - A. Sunday, the 16th of July.

Q.Did she know you? - A. Yes; for we are near neighbours, she only lives three minutes walk from me.

Q. And the child complained to you how ill she was treated by her master and mistress? - A. Yes; the 4th of this month.

Q. Did you say Mrs. Pollard had seen the prisoner any other time than when they were in prison together? - A. No, only that one time; I was there yesterday when she came in.

Q. You have not heard her speak to the prisoner, except yesterday? - A. No, I have not; I had spoke to her before, I have not spoke to her since; she ill-treated me very much.

Mr. Alley. Q. Did Mrs. Pollard threaten you at the time of that quarrel? - A. Yes; she said, if she had her will, she would hang the prisoner up, and cut him to pieces; and she would serve me the same, if she could.

HANNAH CUSAC sworn. - Examined by Mr. Alley. - Q. Are you a married woman? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the prisoner? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the girl by whom he is prosecuted? - A. The young woman.

Q. Do you know her? - A. Yes.

Q.Have you had any conversation with her about the prisoner? - A. Yes, a little.

Court. Q.When? - A. In the month of July, I cannot say rightly when.

Mr. Alley. Q. The beginning, or latter end? - A.Towards the middle.

Q. Had you any conversation with her after the middle of July? - A. Only hearing what she said to Elizabeth Burn.

Q.When was it? - A. The 4th of this month, coming through the Park from Spring Garden gate, about ten minutes before three; she was coming, with a short stick in her hand, walking very swift; as soon as she saw Elizabeth Burn , she began to limp; she said, her mistress persuaded her to go into the hospital, but she did not like to go; she said she had been in the company of the prisoner three times; she hung her head on one side, and said she hand drank with him three times.

Court. Q. She walked very well before? - A. Yes; very well indeed; I said to her, I have seen you these several days in the Park, about your business, walking as well as I could; with that she walked up as well as I could.

Q. That was towards the middle of July? - A. Yes.

Q.How do you get your livelihood? - A. I go a chairing; I work at Turner and Rosser's, in Harley-street.

Q.How long have you known the prisoner? - A.Seventeen years, since he was a lad.

Q. All that you know is, that she said to Elizabeth Burn , that she had been in the company of the prisoner? - A. That she had drank with him three times before; Elizabeth Burn said, my dear, you look very dirty; says she, that is because my master gives me no wages, and no clothes; how comes he to give you no wages; because he took me without a character; and he uses me very ill, sometimes beating me with a stick, and sometimes with his hat. After this was over, I heard her tell Elizabeth Burn, that her mistress told her, if she would swear she never saw the defendant before, she would let her have some clothes.

Q. Who did you understand by her mistress, Mrs. Polland? - A. Yes.

Q. Did she say any thing more? - A. No.

Q. Did she say any thing about the prisoner? - A. No; I came away with Elizabeth Burn .

Q. She said nothing more? - A. No; she said she had drank with him those three times.

Q. Nothing more was said about the prisoner? - A. No.

Q. Was any thing said about any body getting her a place? - A. No.

Bligh. I concieve it to be my duty to make an observation: Elizabeth Burn applied to me, and told me that she was the wife of the prisoner.

Q. Is it necessary for a woman to state that at Bow-street, before they can have admission to a man in jail? - A. I cannot say.

SARAH ROOKSBURY sworn. - I am a captain's widow: I have known the prisoner seven years, he is sober, industrious, and cleanly, and possesses so many good qualities, that I recommended him to a milk-walk.

JANE BELL called again. - Court. Q. You have heard what these people have said about your being at the Duke of York's arms; upon you oath, were you there or not? - A. I will take my oath that I never was any where with this man.

Court. Q.Do you know the Crown ale-house, York-street, Westminster? - A. No, I do not.

Court. Q. Did you ever come out of an ale-house with him, and meet Elizabeth Burn ? - A. No; I never did.

Q. Do you remember seeing Elizabeth Burn , on the 4th of September, and having a conversation with her? - A. No.

Q. Do you see Elizabeth Burn here? - A. Yes.

Q. You saw Hannah Cusack ? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever converse with either of them in St. James's Park? - A. No.

Q. Are you so positive, as to take your oath you never did converse with them? - A. Yes; I never did.

Q. Did you ever ask the prisoner to get you a place? - A. I never did, I never had an opportunity to ask him, nor I had not it in my thoughts.

Q. Did your mistress ever tell you to swear you never saw the prisoner before? - A. No; she never told me any thing, she never said any thing to me.

Q. Did she promise to clothe you as soon as the the business is over? - A. No, she did not.

Q. How were you dressed the night the man used you so? - A. I had a blue coat on, a boy's coat.

Q. And what hat? - A. A man's hat.

Q. Had you any handkerchief? - A. Yes; I had the handkerchief on that I have got on now.

Q. And the blue coat on over all? - A. Yes.

SMITH called again. - Q. How was the child dressed? - A. In a blue coat, and a man's hat.

Q.(To Sarah Scott .) How was she dressed? - A. In a blue coat, and a man's hat.

Mrs. POLLARD called in again. - Q.Had you been with the girl in the Park, on the 19th of July? - A. On the 19th of July, I was with her from between two and three, till nine o'clock.

Q. How much before nine? - A. As near nine as possible; we generally turn the cows off at nine, at that time of the year, and I had untied the cows myself with her.

Q. You generally turn out at nine, at that time of the year? - A. According to the weather, if it is fine weather we stay out till the last minute.

Q. Was that at Spring-Gardens? - A. Yes; she parted from me at Spring-Gardens, at nine o'clock.

Q. Had the child on a spotted gown? - A. She had the same spotted gown on that she has at present, and a handkerchief very much like this, but not this, she wore no cap at that time, she had nothing but a hat on her head.

Q. Had she any apron on? - A. Yes, a blue apron.

Q. You say you had a good character with this girl? - A. Yes, I had.

Q. Did she know you had a character with her? - A. Yes; she knew it, for I took her to the woman where she lived; and there have been people coming past, who had known her at Pimlico, and seeing her at the stall, have given her halfpence, because they had known her to be an honest girl; this woman in the dark gown, Mrs. Cusack, offered the girl five guineas, and a gown piece, not to appear, but what day of the month it was, I do not know; about three o'clock in the afternoon, I came up, and they were rioting the girl, and she stood a crying.

Q. Were you present at the time of the offer? - A. I came up at the very moment, when she told her, if she would not appear against him, she should have five guineas and a gown-piece, but if she swore against him, she told her she would be hanged, she said so upon the milk stall; I cannot justly say when that was.

Q. Did you hear her say so? - A. Yes; it was not a month ago; it was at a time she was discoursing with the girl upon the milk-stand.

Mrs. Cusack. It is false as God is true, I never offered the girl any sum at all; I met the mistress, and they all stopped with the cows and sat down, and had a pot of ale, and I came up and said, what a dreadful thing it is, about this affair; bless your soul, says she, come along, I can reason with you better than I can with any body else; with that, I went up to the wall with her, and she up and told me how it was; now, says I, it will be a scandalous thing, if you swear as you have done, to prosecute this man; if you can make it up, I think it would be much better, says she, I am bound under forty pounds; says I, that is nothing, you will not be bound to pay it; well, says she, I will enquire, and if I am not bound by penalty, I do not know what I may do.

Q.(To Bell.) Did Mrs. Cusack offer you any money? - A. Yes, in my mistress's presence, and my master was present to.

Q.(To Mrs. Pollard.) Did you give that girl any wages? - A. No; but I found her in wearing-apparel, both her shoes and stockings, and what I thought necessary; she would have had wages for her own jurisdiction before now, but I thought I had better lay it out for her.

Mrs. Cusack. I had a young baby of seven months old in my arms, and she said, that she wished that child in my arms might be ravished.

SAMUEL POLLARD sworn. - Court. Q. You are a husband to Sarah Pollard ? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever see Hannah Cusack ? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever hear her make an offer to that girl, Jane Bell? - A. I heard her say, that she should be put into prison if she swore against the man, but I did not hear of any money.

Q. When was it? - A. I cannot tell the day of the month, but it was in St. James's-Park upon my stand.

Q. Was your wife there? - A. No; but my daughter-in-law was, the girl told me so, I did not hear it; I heard her say, she should be put in Newgate, to be pillored.

Q.(To Cusack.) What do you say to this charge, did you tell the child she should be put in Newgate, and pillored? - A. I said, she was liable, if she swore false.

Pollard. She said, if you do swear against this man, you will be put into Newgate, and shall be put in the pillory.

GUILTY Death . (Aged 37.)

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Justice ROOKE.

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