Henry Stroud, Robert Cambell, Anstis Horsford.
3rd July 1771
Reference Numbert17710703-59
SentenceDeath > death and dissection

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494, 495, 496. (M.) Henry Stroud , Robert Cambell , and Anstis Horsford , were indicted for feloniously and wilfully, and of their malice a fore-thought, being present, aiding, abbeting, assisting, comforting, and maintaining, certain persons unknown; to murder Daniel Clarke , April 16 . *

Benjamin West . I am a weaver in Fleet-street; Clarke the deceased used to draw patterns for me: I saw him about twelve o'clock, the day he was killed, at his own house; he was coming with me up Half Nichols street, Spital-fields, to look at some work; we were attacked by two men, the people increased very fast; they called after him,

" There goes Clarke, that blood-selling rascal" or to that effect; he turned round to speak to them, and expostulated with them; I told him he had better come along; they threw stones at him; after he had turned up a little street, I saw two men knocking him down; we ran; I did not look behind me till I saw him upon the ground, after I came into Cock-lane.

Q. Which way did you run?

West. Strait forward; he turned up a little turning which leads into Cock lane: I saw him upon the ground: then he and I went different ways.

Q. But the way he and you went, both came into the same street again?

West. Yes, in Cock-lane; there I saw him down, with his hat and wig off.

Q. Was nobody with him when you saw him down?

West. I saw two or three men: I saw one man kicking him: I cannot tell what kind of a man he was; I saw Clarke get up, and he ran into Mrs. Snee's house: that is all I saw of him; then I came away.

Q. Did they follow him to Mrs. Snee's house?

West. I saw several people about the place.

Q. Where did you go?

West. I went to his house, and told the person he lived with, which I understand now is not his wife; that he was at Mrs. Snee's, that he had been attacked and lost his wig: I desired her to take him a wig.

Q. Did you desire her to carry any thing else to him?

West. I told her I thought it would be necessary to take his pistols, for fear he should be attacked again; he was desired by the justices to carry pistols in his pocket, for fear of being attacked.

Q. Did any of the stones hit him?

West. I cannot say.

Q. What o'clock was it then?

West. Between twelve and one.

Q. What time was from the time he was attacked till you went off?

West. Not above half an hour.

Q. What kind of weather was it, that day?

West. Scorching weather, afterwards I fancy it rained.

Q. What o'clock might it be?

West. Near one: it was half past twelve when we left his house.

Mary Snee . I live in Cock-lane.

Q. You knew Clarke, I believe?

Snee. Yes; I had seen him five times.

Q. Do you remember his coming to your house?

Snee. Yes.

Q. What time was that?

Snee. I thought about tweleve; my people tell me it was about one.

Q. Was your door open?

Snee. He opened my latch and ran in he was bloody: he was cut over his eyes, and had no wig on; I said Lord have mercy upon me what is the matter Mr. Clarke: he said, I beset; I said who has beset you? know says he: he walked about the house, we gave him water and washed him, he said when he came in,

"Lock the door, for God's lock the door." I did, and shut the inside shutters of my windows: he was very disconsolate. After he had been there some time, he desired me to send for his wife: he said,

"this is the finishing stroke; this crowns

"the work:" he desired me to send for his wife, for he had no wig, he asked me to let my daughter bring his pistols: my daughter went and met Mrs. Clarke coming in Shoreditch with his pistols; she brought them, he desired her to go back and fetch him a wig, and bring his powder box with his gun powder, which she did.

Q. How long was she before she returned again?

Snee. Half an hour, to be sure.

Q. In the mean time did you hear any noise at your door?

Snee. Yes, now and then; but they turned down the corner of the streets; and our door was pretty clear when she came the last time.

Q. Before that, did the people call out?

Snee. Yes; several times, they peeped thro' the window and said,

"D - n him,

"there he is: turn him out, let us hang him,

"or burn him, or any thing, let us do something

"with him."

Q. When the wife came, it was pretty quiet then?

Snee. Yes; and he came out then with his hands one in one pocket and the other in the other, upon his pistols; he went out with his wife.

Q. How long was he in the house, in the whole?

Snee. Upwards of an hour.

Q. Then he and his wife went out together?

Snee. Yes, and a little boy; they went a little way, not half a stone's throw, and when the mob saw the corners of the streets beset they came running round him; I was at my own door, I saw a great mob, then he run back again.

Q. With his wife and boy?

Snee. No; they came back no more.

Q. I suppose that was but a few minutes after they had left your house?

Snee. Yes, a very few minutes; then he stood at my door, he took his pistols out; a fellow coming up to him, he said,

"I will shoot you," the fellow took his stick and held it up to his face, and said,

"D - n you do." Mr. Clarke could not let the pistol's off, so he pushed into the house, and I shut the door and locked it.

Q. How many people might there be then?

Snee. I do not know; a great number of people.

Q. Were there some hundreds?

Snee. There were I believe, a hundred; I said, for God's sake what must I do; the outside shutters were not shut at all; they throwed a great brickbat at the door, and when they had done that, they throwed another and broke four panes of glass and the frame, and all of the windows. They said,

"D - n him, turn him out, and they would hang him, or burn him, or drown him, or do something or other to him; d - n him turn him out;" I asked Mr. Clarke whether he knowed them or not, that beset him, he said no I don't, but I know them that does. They kept knocking and beating at the door and window, I did not know what to do; he said,

"For God's sake do not open the door;" then he asked me if I had any cellar; I said, yes; he went down into the wash house, and then down into the cellar; when he was in the cellar, I opened the door, one of the fellows came in; as soon as he came in he pushed into the kitchen to me, and said,

"D - n you, where is he." I said he is not here.

Q. Look at the prisoners and recollect if you saw either of them there?

Snee. No; I was in a great fright.

Q. How came you to open the door?

Snee. I opened it to let a friend in; I thought he was a pretty safe in the cellar; the man ran up stairs and met my daughter and said,

"D - n my blood, if I don't kill all in the house if they don't find him;

"my daughter said, as I hope to be saved, he is not up stairs; (for he was then in the cellar;) he saw my daughter go over a garden wall, which put him in mind to do so; the poor creature heard the man swear he would kill all in the house. While he was in the kitchen, the deceased came out and got over the wall. Then they called out in the street,

"There he goes, there he runs;" then they left me, and run out into the garden.

Q. That is not a garden belonging to your house, I believe?

Snee. No; a great garden, belonging to a gardener; they all ran after him.

Q. Did they go over the wall too?

Snee. There is gates and places; they can go every way from the street.

Q. Did you hear a pistol go off after this?

Snee. I did not; I was so frightened I heard nothing more.

Q. How long had he been in your house; you say the first time he was in your house, about an hour; how long was it from the time he first came into your house, till he got over the wall?

Snee. About an hour, or upwards.

Q. Then the hour includes the whole time from his coming into your house till he finally went away?

Snee. Yes.

John Marsh . I live in Norton-Falgate; I had just dined and heard an extraordinary noise, which occasioned me to look out of my window; there I saw a man, which they tell me, was Clarke; I saw him at the corner of White Lyon street, at Mr. Woodrow's corner, surrounded by a number of people; I saw nobody strike him then; I went to my other window, and there I saw a man with a whip, like a carman's whip, there was a circle of people; I suppose the man was under; I saw the whip up several times; it seemed to strike at some object below, that I could not see; but it was within a few yards of where I had seen Clarke before; I saw no more, I know nothing of the prisoners; I did not go out of my shop; I live at the corner.

Q. How did he appear when you first saw him?

Marsh. He appeared a little dirty about the face, and in a confused frightened condition.

Q. Did you see any body strike him?

Marsh. No; he went on in a few minutes, I never went out to look after him.

Q. How long might this be?

Marsh. From first to last, not above five minutes.

Q. Do you know where Mr. Woodrow is?

Marsh. No; he has never been absent, he has been in his shop every day.

Q. When did you see him last?

Marsh. I saw him every day.

Q. Did you see him yesterday?

Marsh. Yes.

Q. Did he say he would come to day?

Marsh. No; he said he had had no subpoena.

Thomas Gibson . I live at Norton Falgate; I am a silk dresser.

Q. Do you remember seeing the deceased, Daniel Clarke, upon the 16th of April?

Gibson. Yes.

Q. What place did you first see him in?

Gibson. In Norton Falgate, the corner of White Lyon-yard, or street; it goes by both names.

Q. What time of day was it?

Gibson. After two o'clock.

Q. Describe what condition he was in?

Gibson. There might be a hundred people about him, or more.

Q. Which way was he coming?

Gibson. From towards Shoreditch; the people following him; he went and stood up at the corner, going to White Lyon-street, with his back against the wall; he dropt with his back-side upon the ground; a man came by with a dray, and said, Clear the way; he took a whip and began whipping of him.

Q. How long did he whip him?

Gibson. Perhaps a minute; I went away to my shop; I work in Blossom-street: he got up, how I know not; I lost fight of him then, I got fight of him again in about four or five minutes, in Wheeler-street, the next street to White Lyon-street; the people were pursuing him; they had got him up in a corner and were throwing dirt at him, and striking him, that was about one hundred yards from White-Lyon-street; then they went away down Quaker-street with him; he never seemed to try to get away, but seemed to go with them; he was in the middle of a great number of people: about the middle of Quaker's-street somebody came and gave him a blow, and said, D - n your blood: and Clarke fell down. I followed him to the Broad way.

Q. What was done there?

Gibson. He kept going before the mob; I saw nobody meddle with him there; he was before that in a very deplorable condition; his head was bloody: then they went to Hare-street: he was going down Hare-street; somebody came and asked me what was the matter; I stopped to tell him it was Clarke: they stopped him against the brew-house; there they stripped him; it is about the middle of Hare-street; I cannot say how much they stripped him; he had his breeches and stockings; then they went into the field, called, Hare-street field, that is at the end of Hare-street: I went into Hare-street field with the mob: when he came into Hare-street field , whether they knocked him down, or kicked him down, I cannot say, but he was down, and they were beating him upon the ground while he was down; some got hold of his legs; some his arms, and they dragged him along upon the ground; then they said,

"We will throw him into a pond, or a ditch;" one said, This is not deep enough; and another, This is not deep enough: at last they carried him into the Brick-field, where there is a pond, occasioned by digging out the bricks.

Q. What did they do with him then?

Gibson. They forced him into the water; whether they thrust him in by the back, or took hold of him by the arms, I cannot say.

Q. What distance might you be?

Gibson. One hundred yards, or farther.

Q. What number of people might be gathered together at this time.

Gibson. There might be two or three thousand; there were people out of number.

Q. How long did you stay after he was shoved into the pond?

Gibson. Till the very last of all. They kept pelting him with earth and brick-bats, and any thing they met with whilst he was in the water.

Q. How deep was this pond?

Gibson. Where he stood he seemed to be about three feet in the water: whether he stood, or kneeled down in the water, I cannot say.

Q. How high did the water come?

Gibson. About the middle of his belly.

Q. What kind of weather was this?

Gibson. It snowed at times as fast as I ever saw it in my life.

Q. How long did he continue in this pond?

Gibson. It was a considerable time; half an hour, or three quarters.

Q. How long did they continue throwing earth and brickbats at him?

Gibson. About half an hour; there was a parcel of boys and girls about him; I went, and said, You little brats you will kill this man, and some of you will get hanged for it. A man came up and assisted me, and we pulled him out.

Q. Was the water bloody at that time?

Gibson. I did not mind that then.

Q. What did they do with him then?

Gibson. I got hold of him; we dragged him four or five yards from the place; some of them said, He is one of his confederates or some such word, and pushed the man in and all; and they were going to push me in with him; I slipped away at a distance from the mob; some advised me to go home, and said I should get myself ill used; but I staid.

Q. Where was Clark at this time?

Gibson. About nine or ten yards from the water.

Q. In what condition?

Gibson. He was down upon the sand-heap, and they were throwing sand on the top of him.

Q. How long did this treatment continue upon the sand?

Gibson. It might be a quarter of an hour, or twenty minutes.

Q. What became of him at the end of this quarter of an hour, or twenty minutes?

Gibson. They made a sort of a hallo themselves, and then they came and throwed him into the water again.

Q. How high was the water then?

Gibson. He was crawling like upon his hands and knees, at times, striving to keep himself from drowning; they kept throwing brickbats and stones at him; brickbats were the chief; there was not many stones; I saw half a brick, as it appeared to me, come and strike him on the left side of his temple, and the blood poured out as fast as if he had been pricked with a lancet, and the water was discoloured with the blood.

Q. Did you observe Clarke do or say any thing?

Gibson. He put his hand upon his head, and wiped the blood off and said,

"Oh, gentlemen, you use me cruelly:" I went to get to the side of him to try to get him out of the water, but could not find any body to help me. Somebody cried, By and by; here is Justice Fielding's people coming; with that they drawed back. Somebody said, No, it is not; it is the keeper or White chapel prison. I saw a man coming, a turnkey, or something belonging to the prison; then they drawed back; there was another man there, one Clarke; I asked him to help me to get the man out of the water; he was going to take hold of him; Clarke refused him; whether he thought he was going to push him in further or no, I do not know; but we got him out the second time; that Clarke is a fisherman.

Q. When you had taken him out of the pond, what happened then?

Gibson. We got him out of the pond five or six yards, I put him down upon the ground; he got up upon his backside; there I left him; I got away from him; by and by I came up to him again; I think he was leaning down upon his elbow, sitting upon one side; somebody said, Get him to an hospital; I said, It is impossible without a coach; I will assist for one; I left him: soon after somebody came up again, and said, He is dead; I said, How can that be, I saw him just now.

Q. Did he speak after you took him out the second time?

Gibson. I don't remember hearing him speak.

Q. Did he groan?

Gibson. No; I thought he seemed pretty hearty.

Q. How were his eyes?

Gibson. He was pretty full in the eyebrows; his eyes were considerably swelled.

Q. Could he see?

Gibson. I did not perceive but that he could; I got in between the mob again, and

looked, and then he was laying straight upon the ground, with both hands out; I stood awhile, and saw him fetch breath: the mob were very strong; I got away again; I could not stand it: somebody cried out afterwards, He is dead: when I went to look again, I saw he was dead; we drawed him away from there to the sand house.

Q. How long was it after he came out of the pond the second time that you observed he was dead?

Gibson. I cannot tell; but it must be after four o'clock.

Q. Look at the prisoners at the bar; do you know either of them?

Gibson. Yes; I have seen them before, I believe.

Q. Which of them do you know?

Gibson. I believe I have seen them all, but I cannot say I know their names; I know their persons.

Q. Did you see either of them present at the time you have been speaking of?

Gibson. Yes; Campbell; I saw him there.

Q. Whereabouts?

Gibson. Near the pond side with the rest of the mob.

Q. When the deceased was in the pond?

Gibson. Yes.

Q. The first time, or the second?

Gibson. The second time, I believe.

Q. How was he dressed?

Gibson. I think he had a great coat on, what they call a bath coat.

Q. Had he any thing in his hand?

Gibson. I do not recollect that he had then.

Q. Did he do any thing then?

Gibson. No further than crowding about, as another person might be.

Q. Did he use any expressions?

Gibson. I did not hear him speak at all, as I know of.

Q. Did you observe him at any time do or say any thing?

Gibson. Never, all the time he continued there.

Q. How long might he continue there?

Gibson. I might see him a quarter of an hour, or twenty minutes; I cannot say the time.

Q. Do you know whether he was there about the time Clarke died?

Gibson. No.

Q. When you saw him before Clarke died, how was he dressed then?

Gibson. I saw him, I think, in his shirt.

Q. From the prisoner Campbell. Are you sure you saw me in my shirt?

Gibson. It was something white; I think it was his shirt.

Q. What was the colour of the bath coat he had on when you first saw him?

Gibson. A darkish coloured coat.

Q. Then some small time before Clarke died, you saw him in something white you took to be his shirt.

Gibson. Yes; I thought it was his shirt.

Q. from the Jury. We should be glad to know whether you are certain you saw Campbell there?

Gibson. To the best of my knowledge he was.

Q. Whether you saw him in white?

Gibson. Yes; I thought it was his shirt.

Q. Was there any other man so dressed?

Gibson. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Had you ever seen Campbell before?

Gibson. I cannot be sure.

Q. I think you say you was absent from the pond some little time?

Gibson. Yes.

Q. How long might you be absent from the pond?

Gibson. I was standing nigh, twenty or thirty yards under the shed; I might be there twenty minutes, or half an hour; that was to avoid the snow, because it snowed so very fast.

Q. The time you was absent for thirty minutes; was it between the first and second time he was in the water?

Gibson. When they were going to put him in the second time, I went under his place.

Q. When you first saw him; when he had the bath great coat on, you was asked if he had any thing in his hand; your answer was, Not then; did you observe afterwards, when he was in his shirt, as you suppose; that he had any thing in his hand?

Gibson. It appeared to me to be a bit of a hoop stick, or some such thing: that was while he was in his shirt.

Cross Examination.

Q. You don't speak with certainty as to the person of Campbell; when you saw him in a dark coloured coat there was a great croud of people; you took no more particular notice of one man than another, I suppose; do you mean to speak certainly that Campbell was the person you saw in the Bath coloured coat?

Gibson. I took no notice of one man more than another.

Q. Did you take more notice of the person of one man than another?

Gibson. No, I did not.

Q. Did you ever see Campbell before?

Gibson. No.

Q. Then are you sure that he is the man that you saw at the water side?

Gibson. I believe he was, to the best of my knowledge.

Q. Have you any doubt about it?

Gibson. No, I have not.

Q. Will you speak of the man you saw in the shirt; was that Campbell?

Gibson. I thought it was the same man.

Q. You are not sure?

Gibson. No, it snowed that I could not see.

Q. Was you a dozen or fourteen yards off at the time you saw him in the Bath coat?

Gibson. I was near then; I could have laid my hand upon his shoulder.

Q. Were there any people between you?

Gibson. No, not that I remember; we were both upon the edge of the water side.

Q. You cannot say whether it was his shirt or a white coat?

Gibson. I think it was a shirt, I will not swear that it was his shirt.

Q. How long was you there in the whole?

Gibson. I was there pretty near two hours from first to last.

Q. What was it o'clock when you saw him first?

Gibson. It was nigh three, or half past two.

Q. What was it o'clock when he went to the pond the first time?

Gibson. Near three.

Francis Clarke . I am a fruiterer in Grey Eagle-street; I don't recollect the exact time this riot happened, but I remember it; I stood at my own door; my house is in the middle of Grey Eagle-street, as near I can say; it is about one hundred yards from the broad way.

Q. What time did you come home?

Clarke. I cannot say; I saw a mob when I came home and had my dinner; when I first saw the mob they were in Quaker's street, at the corner; two men came towards me from the mob; I asked what was the matter; they said they had got Clarke that hanged the cutters.

Q. Did you know these men?

Clarke. I did not; I went to my wife and called her, and I ran to the mob; I saw a great mob, and the deceased in the middle; he had a great cut on one of his eyes, and his hat and wig were off: his coat very muddy; they drove him forwards; there was a mob on every side of him; he did not resist much against them; they hunched him down the street into Brick-lane, and then down Hare-street; I called Mrs. Hoe, who is to be the next witness; I followed the mob; when we went along to the brewhouse they stopped at one Mr. Green's; then I ran by the mob; a person asked me what was the matter; I said they had got hold of Clarke: while I was talking to him they stripped him; he was naked; when I saw him before, he had his cloaths on; I did not see them strip him.

Q. What did they do when he was naked?

Clarke. I saw one man throw a handful of grains in his face, and give him a stripe upon his back with his hand. Clarke was a lusty man, and had a good skin, so the mark of the man's hand was left upon his shoulders; when they came up to the field gate somebody said to Clarke,

"For God's sake think of your Maker, for you will never get out of this mob alive." I saw them dra gging him by his feet.

Q. How far did they drag him in that manner?

Clarke. Not far, a yard I suppose; I went by them again and they came up to a pond.

Q. Do you know Bethnall Green road?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. Did you see him at this time making towards Bethnall Green road?

Clarke. No; he was making down that way afterwards, and the people said,

"Do not go that way. the justice lives that way."

Q. When you got to Hare-field gate he made an attempt to go to Bethnall Green?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. How came it he did not go that way?

Clarke. The mob turned him the other way; they said,

"Don't go that way, the justice lives that way." Mr. Wilmot lives in the road.

Q. Did they say any thing else at the time they forced him to the pond?

Clarke. Not that I can remember; I ran round the field, and got over a place like a bridge; when I turned round I saw the man thrown into the water.

Q. You did not see him from the time he was upon his back till he was plunged into the water?

Clarke. Yes, I saw him coming along; they were striking and pushing him; when he was at the pond side some said,

"D - n your eyes, you had no compassion upon others," and such like; I was close to him then.

Q. Did you observe any body hold that talk to him?

Clarke. Not a soul that I know, upon my oath.

Q. Was you close by him at that time?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. Was that before he was put into the pond?

Clarke. No after Gibson had pulled him out.

Q. But was you by at the time he was put into the pond?

Clarke. No; I was round a little house they call a sand house, as far as to the end of the court; when I turned round he was in the water.

Q. What did they do to him when he was in the water?

Clarke. Pelted him with brickbats and stones, and such things.

Q. How near was you to any body that did that?

Clarke. I went on one side; I could not bear to stand by to see it; I stood on the other side of the pond.

Q. Who did you see pelt him?

Clarke. Not one in particular that I know; I saw several I people, neighbours, round the pond; but none that threw at him as I saw.

Q. How long was he in the pond before he was drawn out?

Clarke. Nigh half an hour. Mr. Gibson pulled him out; the last time I helped him.

Q. When he was pulled out where did they take him to?

Clarke. They left him near the side of the pond, about six feet off.

Q. It was at that time the people talked to him about hanging the cutters?

Clarke. Yes, and about Chevat; he made answer and said, Chevat is worse than me.

Q. Did they talk to him about any body else.

Clarke. He said,

"Let me go home, for God's sake; I will freely forgive you:" some of them said,

"D - n you, you said you would swear against twenty." Some of them said that to enrage the people the more, I believe; he said he would freely forgive them if they would let him go home, and shook his head; some of them d - d and cursed him; very saw was for him; all the mob were against him; I heard very saw people that were pitying of him; they said,

"He was a very bad man, and would swear peoples lives away."

Q. You must recollect as well as you can; you was ner him when he was pulled out of the pond?

Clarke. I ran, round the pond and stood close to him.

Q. How long?

Clarke. Till they throwed the piece of cord over his head and pulled him along.

Q. How long was it from the time you came round to him before the cord was flung over his head?

Clarke. Not many minutes.

Q. This was the first pulling him out of the water?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. It was during this number of minutes that this conversation was held; now you must mention the persons that you saw talking to him?

Clarke. I don't know them.

Q. Not any of them?

Clarke. Not one in particular, upon my oath.

Q. Do you know any of the prisoners at the bar?

Clarke. I know that woman.

Q. Do you know Campbell?

Clarke. No.

Q. Did you never see him before?

Clarke. I don't know that ever I did; never to speak to him; if I saw him it has been in passing of him in the street.

Q. You have seen him before?

Clarke. Not to my knowledge, only at Sir John Fielding 's.

Q. Did you ever see him before the 16th of April?

Clarke. I did not see him then that I know of.

Q. Can you recollect none of the persons?

Clarke. I saw the other man, Stroud; I took him to be a brick maker.

Q. When did you first see him?

Clarke. I saw him stand by the side of the house after the deceased was pulled out of the water.

Q. Did you ever see him before that time?

Clarke. I have seen him many times, but not to know his name.

Q. Did you see him that day before Clarke was pulled out of the water?

Clarke. No.

Q. Can you describe any of the people that you saw talking to Clarke before the cord was thrown over his head?

Clarke. The man that throw'd it was a slim man, like a lad; but looked like a man in years; and I saw a boy, in a green waistcoat, very active in striking him; and I saw a woman at the pond.

Q. I want you to speak to those persons you know?

Clarke. If I was to speak to persons I don't know, I might as well swear to you.

Q. You saw the cord put over him?

Clarke. Yes; but not to pull him much; when that was done I ran away; I could not bear to see the barbarity; I ran by Mr. Scott's house, and saw them take him round the sand house; when I saw him again his hands were tied.

Q. How long was it from the time he had the cord flung about his neck till he died?

Clarke. I cannot say.

Q. How far off was you when he was tied?

Clarke. The length of the pond.

Q. Who threw it?

Clarke. I know not.

Q. What did you observe when he was flung into the water?

Clarke. He was in the water, but he got up, and the cord hung by his hands; then he was pelted again with brickbats that came over the mob and every way; from the first to the last he was in the water about an hour and an half.

Q. When his hands were tied was there any huzza?

Clarke. There was a great noise all the time, but nothing particular more.

Q. How long was it from the time he was thrown in till he was taken out the second time?

Clarke. About an hour.

Q. Did any thing happen the second time?

Clarke. Not that I remember.

Q. Did any body go in?

Clarke. Not that I saw; I saw a man stand aiming at him; he seemed to me to be in his shirt.

Q. In what manner was he aiming at him?

Clarke. I thought he wanted to take hold of the rope.

Q. How far was he from him?

Clarke. Pretty close; he might kneel down and reach him.

Q. Did you see him touch him?

Clarke. Not that I know of; I thought it was to pull him out by the rope.

Q. Do you recollect that man in the shirt laying hold of him?

Clarke. I believe once or twice he touched his head.

Q. In what posture?

Clarke. He laid his hand upon his head, and endeavoured to bow it down (describes it,) but not so as to go under the water; he just put his foot towards him.

Q. In what manner did he put his foot towards him?

Clarke. With an intention to push him under the water, I believe: the deceased stood in the water, the man stood just by his side: he first put his hand upon his head to push him down, and then his foot to his shoulder.

Q. Did you see any other person in their shirt?

Clarke. I saw a man in a shirt, as I described to you twice; I will not say whether it was the same or not.

Q. You saw only one at a time, did you?

Clarke. No.

Q. Did you hear any out-cry at the water?

Clarke. Yes; come away: come away.

Q. Do you know whether the mob gave any reason to him for coming away?

Clarke. I cannot say that I did; I was much frightened.

Q. You say brickbats were thrown at him; did any hit him?

Clarke. Yes; there was a sad wound on the

back part of his head, he was all over bloody, I saw him dip his hand in the water to wash his head; a hundred times for what I know.

Q. Did you see any bricks in the hands of the man in his shirt?

Clarke. No; I saw a brick come by him; but whether from him or not, I cannot tell; when I helped to take him out of the water, somebody came behind me and put their knees under my backside and said throw him in for his namesake.

Q. Was this the first or second time of pulling him out?

Clarke. The last time.

Q. Where did you say you saw the woman?

Clarke. By the side of the pond; she never was out of my sight.

Q. Do you recollect the man in the shirt enough to know that you saw him dressed otherwise than in his coat; in any part of the day?

Clarke. Not that I know of.

Q. Did you see Horsford do any thing?

Clarke. No; I saw her all the time: she stood by the pond and wrung her hands. One said, What do you cry for, you see satisfaction; she said, What is that for the loss of my husband and for my fatherless children.

Cross Examination.

Q. from Campbell. Where was you a drinking upon the 17th of the same month the day following?

Clarke. I was called into Mr. West's.

Q. What did you talk about there?

Clarke. He asked me if I would be made a man of; he said, I need not carry fish any more; I might be made a man of for ever.

Q. Did he offer you any money?

Clarke. No; another gentleman offered me fourscore pounds; a gentleman that brought me the summons; he said, you know one Bob Campbell ; I said, I did not by name; he said, he would give me fourscore pounds; I was frightened, he said, I see you are a stranger; if you will but swear to the man I will give you fourscore pounds; I asked by whom I was to get it; he said, I was to go to Lincoln's-Inn-fields and get it of some clerk; the man is in Court now that offered it me.

Court. Call him then; what is his name?

Clarke. I do not know his name.

Court. The man that served you with a subpoena you say?

Clarke. No; a summons, to appear at Sir John Felding 's; it was on the Tuesday; I was to appear on Friday.

Court. How long was that after the murder?

Clarke. I believe I have the summons in my pocket; he asked me for one Sarah Scales , to appear at Sir John Fielding 's, to give evidence against the man. I said I could not read; asked him to read it to me; he took me up and alley; he said, you are the capital, or chief witness against the man; I said, what man: he said, Campbell, that was in prison; and said, if you will swear against him, you will have four score pounds, divided between you and the man that took him; I said, God forbid I should go to swear against a person I do not know, (the man is called into court.)

Clarke. This is the man.

Court to the Man. This witness says when you served him with a summons, you told him he was the capital evidence against Campbell; and if he swore against him, he should have fourscore pounds, divided between the man that took him and himself. What do you say to that?

A. I said no such words.

Q. Did you say any thing about fourscore pounds?

A. No; I mentioned no sum in the world.

Q. Did you mention that there would be any reward?

A. I mentioned nothing.

Clarke. Did not you stop and read the summons to me?

A. Yes; but I never said that.

Q. What are you?

A. A peace officer; a constable; I was employed at the Rotation office, Whitechapel; I was sent by the Bench to serve the summons on this man and another; that was my errand.

Q. And no more than that?

A. No.

Q. Did you know who was in custody?

Clarke. No.

Court. Let me see the summons?

Clarke. I have not got it; I will send for it,

Q. To the constable. What was the summons for?

A. I believe to appear before Sir John Fielding .

Court. By way of making enquiry into this matter?

A. I believe so. We were all summoned to appear before Sir John; Campbell was then in custody.

Q. How long was it after the murder being committed?

A. Four or five weeks.

Q. to Clarke. Who did you tell this story to of his delivering the summons first of all, before you told it here?

Clarke. Nobody in particular; I believe I told it to one or two of my neighbours; I said, it is a dangerous point to appear in: in Spitalfields and at Billingsgate where we get our bread, they are apt to reflect upon one and another.

Q. How long after the murder was this?

Clarke. Two or three weeks, as night as I can guess.

Q. Was it a great while before the time you went before Sir John Fielding .

Clarke. This was Tuesday; I went the Friday following.

Q. Then Campbell was in custody at that time?

Clarke. Yes; he was committed to Newgate that time; another man came out and said, D - n you, you know that prisoner Campbell I know, for I saw you wink at him.

Cross Examination.

Q. Who had the conversation with you?

Clarke. One West; it was the 16th day, a very snowy day.

Q. Did he point out any body in particular, who you was to swear against?

Clarke. He said, Bob Campbell .

Q. Was it this West that has been examined here?

Clarke. No.

Q. You say you was in the field?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. Did you say you remembered the squinting man at the bar being there, Stroud?

Clarke. Yes; he offered to carry the deceased to the Infirmary upon a brick barrow, but the man refused it; I said, is not that man's (Mr. Wolridge's) word sufficient for the safety of it; for they refused to put him in the brick-house.

Q. Do you remember that tall man, Stroud?

Clarke. Yes.

Q. How was he dressed?

Clarke. Just as he is now.

Q. Did you see him do any thing

Clarke. No.

Q. Did not he desire you, or offer his assistance, to pull the man out of the pond?

Clarke. Not that I heard; some man held one hand while I stooped down to reach him out of the pond; I took hold of the rope: I believe he was afraid I was going to pull him out to use him ill; he refused it.

Q. When you turned about and saw the man, do you remember seeing him desirous of giving assistance to the deceased?

Clarke. Yes; upon a door. I am sure that was the man that wanted me to go further in the field to take a door off, to carry the deceased upon to the hospital; that was before the man was dead.

Q. Did you see Stroud come into the field?

Clarke. I did not; I don't know I saw the man before he spoke to me; the people would not let us take a door off, Mr. Wolridge would have had him carried into a Sand-house for shelter, and the man refused; the people cried out to me, as I helped him out again, you will be shoved in yourself.

Q. Can you recollect when the man talked about fetching the door to carry him over the field to take him to the infirmary; did he speak as if he was in anxiety for the deceased?

Clarke. He appeared in as much anxiety as I was; and I could not help crying about it.

Q. Do you think as he is a remarkable man if he had done any thing at the pond to the injury of the deceased you should not have seen it?

Clarke. Yes, I think I should; I saw Mr. Wolridge there; he offered to give his word for the things in the sand-house, that they should not come to any damage.

Q. Did that man seem anxious for his safety?

Clarke. He did.

Q. You did not see him throw any thing?

Clarke. No; he seemed to be in too much trouble.

Council for the Crown. I asked you just now

when you was standing as close to the deceased as that little boy and heard people talk, whether you could or not make observation of any one person that spoke a single word; you told me could not?

Clarke. Not that I knowed.

Q. But can you describe them?

Clarke. The man that put the rope round his neck was a thin man.

Q. You saw many bricks thrown at him?

Clarke. Yes; I saw several persons throw, they were chiefly boys; it was a very bitter day, it was impossible to distinguish one man from another, without you was close to him.

Q. But several people might have talked to him, and throwed bricks at him, while he was upon the ground; yet you could not remember?

A. Yes.

Sarah Scales . I was at the pond. I saw several pieces of bricks thrown at the deceased; and some hit him on the head; but I don't know any of the people that throwed.

Q. Did you see him twice in the pond?

Scales. Yes; but I don't know who put him in.

Q. Don't be afraid in speaking what you know?

Scales. No.

Q. He got out the first time?

Scales. He grappled to the sides to get out, and then I saw him thrown in again; but I did not know-by whom.

Q. Did you see any thing done to him before he was thrown in?

Scales. Not to my knowledge.

Q. When he was thrown in the second time did they continue pelting him?

Scales. Yes.

Q. Did you see a man in his shirt there?

Scales. Yes.

Q. What did he do?

Scales. Put him underneath the water; he took him by the head and put him underneath the water, but I don't know the man; it was a short man in his shirt; but I don't know him; it snowed that day very much.

Court. Don't be afraid; you may give your evidence without being frightened?

Scales. I am not afraid.

Q. Did you see him to any thing else?

Scales. I think I saw him strike him on the back part of the head with a bit of a brick; I don't know the man.

Q. Did you say any thing to that man?

Scales. I called out, Savages and brutes, how could you use him so ill? but I don't know a child of eight years old that did any thing to him.

Q. Did you ever see that man in his shirt at any other time?

Scale. Yes, once.

Q. I ask you whether at any time, either before or after, you saw that man in the shirt that attempted to put Clarke's head under water?

Scales. No.

Q. Nor have not you seen him since?

Scales. No.

Q. Upon your oath?

Scales. I can't swear who the man was.

Q. Did you see more than one man in his shirt there?

Scales. No.

Susannah Hoe . I was by the pond side when Clarke was in the pond; I saw him twice in the pond.

Q. Did you see him before he was in the pond the first time?

Hoe. I did not see him after he passed by our house till I saw him in the pond, and they pelted him; I was at some distance.

Q. How did he get into the pond the second time?

Hoe. I believe they throwed him in.

Q. What did they do to him then?

Hoe. They pelted him.

Q. What else did you see?

Hoe. I saw a little man in his shirt put him under the water.

Q. Did you see that man before he took off his cloaths?

Hoe. No.

Q. Are you sure he was in his shirt?

Hoe. I thought so; he put his hand upon his head; but whether it was to put him up or down I cannot tell. His head popped down.

Q. Did you observe him do any thing to his feet?

Hoe. No.

Q. Should you know that man again?

Hoe. No the day was so bitter there could be no knowing a person without being pretty close.

Joseph Chambers . I was in the field, near the yard; they came down the first time near three o'clock; I saw Clarke standing upon a

sand hill; he was almost naked, not quite. I took him up in my arms and carried him over the ditch; the mob took him away from us and throwed him into the pond; after that they tied a rope round his neck and throwed him in again, and threw a great many bricks at him.

Q. Did you know any of the people that threw bricks at him?

Chambers. Yes; I marked one in particular.

Q. Look about, and see if you can see him?

Chambers. Yes, that is the man, Stroud; I saw him throw three or four bricks at him; one, in particular, hit him over the head.

Q. Did you see any man in his shirt?

Chambers. Yes, a shortish man; I should not know him again; I saw him put one leg in the water, up near to the knee; and with his hand popped his head under water two or three times.

Q. Have you any recollection of his face?

Chambers. No; I was at some distance.

Q. Where is your wife?

Chambers. I do not know. I have never seen her since she was at Sir John Fielding 's.

Q. Upon your oath don't you know where she is?

Chambers. No; I have been far and near and have heard nothing at all of her; upon my oath, if I had known where she was, I would have fetched her; she had been at Sir John Fielding 's, and came back with Mr. Green and me.

Q. Had she given her information before Sir John Fielding ?

Chambers. She had.

Q. And, upon your oath, you don't know where she is?

Chambers. No, I do not; if I had I would have found her before now.

Q. You don't know by what means she went away?

Chambers. She ran away with money in her pocket; and I heard next day she had been very fuddled at Billingsgate, and what became of her I have not heard since.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did you know Stroud before?

Chambers. I have seen him; I worked in the brick kiln; I gave a description of him; and told all the gentlemen if I saw him again I should know him; and so I did.

Q. Who got you to be an evidence?

Chambers. James Knight told me at first he knowed the man that threw the stones and every thing.

Q. Did he engage you to be an evidence?

Chambers. No.

Q. Who did?

Chambers. I told Mr. Wilmot and all of the gentlemen that I should know the man against; James Knight gave the first evidence against Stroud; as soon as I saw him at Sir John Fielding 's, I said, I know him.

Q. Did not James Knight say something to you about giving evidence against Stroud?

Chambers. He did.

Q. Did he talk to you about the reward?

Chambers. They said to me several times there was a tool, reward.

Q. Now did not James Knight describe Stroud when he talked about the reward?

Chambers. He said it was a lusty man, and a gardener; I never saw James Knight for six or seven weeks afterwards; a person came to my house and told me where one James Knight was.

Q. Pray do you know one Higgins?

Chambers. I cannot say I do.

Q. Do you know Davy?

Chambers. Yes.

Q. Had you any conversation with him about getting any share of the reward?

Chambers. No.

Q. Had you no conversation with him about thirty-pound?

Chambers. No; I will tell you the words I said; my wife had a shirt of his to wash; he sat himself upon a chair: I talked about the weavers; James Knight said he knew the man verywell, and said should be glad to know where he was, and I must find the man some where or another: I said, I was bound in forty pound for my appearance; he said, why then you ought to take him, or be hanged, for he has been a great villain by all report; he and I went to Lord Camden's head and had a pint of beer together; I went to Mr. Wilmot's that night and told him; he said, go down in the morning and see if you can find him: I did, I went down to Vaux-hall, and then I went and took him; James Knight told me at first he could not swear to him; I said, if it is

the same man I mean, I will be an evidence, and if I cannot swear to him. I will not.

Q. But you knew at that time whether you could swear to him.

Chambers. No; I had not seen, him at that time.

Q. Did you offer Higgins thirty pound?

Chambers. No.

Q. What are you?

Chambers. I follow the markets and sell fish.

Council for the Crown. Where did you find Stroud?

Chambers. He was in the garden by the work-house; at the top of Hare-street.

Q. Where did you find Knight?

Chambers. At Vaux-hall.

Council for the Prisoner. Did not you go into Mr. Wolridge's ground where Stroud was at work?

Chambers. Yes.

Q. I' ask you upon your oath if you know him?

Chambers. I did not see him to my knowledge if I did, he was low in the ground; I did not discern him; if he had been near me I should have known him.

Q. Where was he taken?

Chambers. I was not present when he was taken.

Q. Did you go into the ground with an intention to look for him?

Chambers. Yes.

Q. Was not that from the information of James Knight ?

Chambers. No; I had not seen Knight a good while; I went for some cauliflower plants.

Q. That was an excuse you made I suppose?

Chambers. Yes.

Q. Who sent you.

Chambers. Mr. Wilmot; I had no cauliflower plants, but some lettuces; I asked for one or two for breakfast; they said I might have them; I took four for breakfast.

Q. Who said that?

Chambers. Mr. Woolridge.

Council for the crown. Then it was Mr. Wilmot sent you to these gardens to see if the man you knew was there?

Chambers. Yes.

Q. You had told Mr. Wilmot you could swear to one man that had thrown some things at the pond?

Chambers. Yes. Davy gave me the hint and said he would come to the wall side, and show me the man, if I chose it.

Q. Did he come and show you the man?

Chambers. He did not. Mr. Woolridge, when I was in the gardens, I did not speak it before Sir John Fielding it went out of my head, said, Where is my Lord Stroud? three men turned back; one made answer and said, He is down at the bottom of the ground a hoeing. I returned, and told Mr. Wilmot of it directly.

Prisoner's Council. How long was it after this that Stroud was taken?

Chambers. The day after, I said, I will go to James Knight; because he could swear to the man down right at once.

Q. But if you could swear so sure to the man, why did you send for him?

Chambers. I was not sure it was the same man that Knight meant before I saw him.

Q. What time was it you went for the lettuces?

Chambers. About half an hour after seven in the morning, it was before eight, we came out again.

Justice Wilmot.

Q. The witness says he had directions of you to go to this place; is that so?

Justice Wilmot. Yes; when he gave the information against the people, he mentioned something of a tall, hard looking man; a man he should know again if he saw him. This was about a fortnight after the murder. On the Wednesday before Stroud was taken, he came to my house in the evening, and said he heard the man's name was Stroud that was at the pond, if he could see him, he should know whether it was the same person or not. I then said, Go to Mr. Woolridge, and desire him to give you two or three lettuces, and see if you know the man; if you know him, come back and you shall have a warrant. I saw him about nine o'clock; he told me he went to the garden, and Mr. Woolridge called for Lord Stroud, and said, I heard he was drunk as last night, and enquired whether the evidence wanted any thing; he said, No. He was not present; in the garden; it must be at the bottom of the garden, for he did not then see him. I desired him to go to the other people that gave an account of the name, and go and be certain whether it was the person or not. Before he was taken, he came back to me, and told me it was the

man. He was taken up and carried before Sir John Fielding . This evidence never saw the man, from the time he was at the pond, till after he was taken and carried before Sir John Fielding .

Q. Did he then swear to him?

Justice Wilmot. I was not there at the time when he first gave the information about such a man: I thought, and the person thought, that he had a blue, or a green apron, and thought he was a dyer. I sent them to several dyers in the neighbourhood, and some of the gentlemen dyers drew out their people, and showed them all.

Q. Do you recollect the description he gave of the man at first?

Justice Wilmot. I believe the information is here in court.

Prisoner's council. In what dress was it you described the man before Sir John Fielding ?

Chambers. I told them one man I marked out had a blue waistcoat in particular.

Q. You gave your evidence of one man in particular, and said you knew never another.

Chambers. I did not say that, I marked several.

Q. Did you give information of the man that threw the brick as having a blue waistcoat?

Chambers. I believe he had a blue waistcoat on, and a green or blue apron.

Q. Did you, or not, at Sir John Fielding 's swear Stroud had a blue waistcoat on?

Chambers. I did not mention his waistcoat; they did not ask me about his waistcoat.

Q. How was he dressed?

Chambers. I think he had a blue waistcoat on, and I think a blue, or green apron.

Council for the Crown. What coat had he over it?

Chambers. A lightish coat; I am positive to the prisoner Stroud's face; I cannot be so certain as to his dress.

Justice Wilmot. He told me Stroud was a hard looking man, at the first, and a man that he should know well; that he had a blue, or green apron; by that he suppose he was a dyer. I sent for some of the master dyers; we went with them, and drawed the people up, and shewed them.

Q. He did not challenge any?

Justice Wilmot. No.

Robert Baldwin . I was at the corner of Hare-street. I followed the mob as far as the brewhouse; I got up upon a post, and looked over their heads.

Q. Did you see the man that knocked the deceased down?

Baldwin. I cannot say; I saw his hand, but do not know who he was: some kicked him one way, and some another; some said, D - n you, get up again; as he rose up, they pulled all his cloaths off, some one way, and some another; they stripped him naked: Mr. Mosly was at his brewhouse gates; it was within two yards of him, as he stood at the gate.

Q. You did not see any of the people that tore his shirt or struck him?

Baldwin. No; they smeared him with some grains; sometimes he was down, sometimes up. When I got to the pond, I saw him in the pond about up to the waistband of his breeches; there was very little done to him at that time; he begged very hard to come out, they reeled back and he crept out upon all fours; there came a stout man and chucked him heels over head in again; he could hardly recover himself; he begged very hard to come out again, I saw Mr. Gibson help him over; I said, that man was doing good for evil; for he had told me the deceased had wronged him out of about two pound; he went about ten steps, somebody knocked him down; there was a report spread; somebody asked what he said they said, the deceased said, he would take off twenty of them; they buffeted him round a little house for about twenty-minutes, as nigh as I can guess, but when he was knocked down from that place where he was standing, a man came behind him with a cord it might be four yards long, about the size of a sash cord; Clarke was then facing me: the man came behind him and threw the cord over his head; it had a noose, he had him down upon the ground, and dragged him five or six yards; I thought he would never rise any more.

Q. Should you know that man again if you saw him?

Baldwin. I don't know; I have not seen him since, I am sure; they took the cord from his neck and wound it round his left hand; while he was doing this Campbell came up to him and asked whether he did not know

William Eastman . The deceased said, for God sake spare my life and I will hurt nobody; this was by the pond, then they cried out let us into the pond, again with him; I saw somebody seize his legs, and with a cord in their hand; I saw them wrap it round his legs. I went round and fixed myself in a little place, about ten yards off from him: they throwed him into the pond; he was not in long before he recovered himself; which way he got his hands loose I cannot say; in about two minutes time Campbell came stript in his shirt.

Q. How was Campbell dressed when he talked to him about Eastman?

Baldwin. In a lightish coloured drab.

Q. How was he dressed when he came to the pond again?

Baldwin. He had his coat off, and was in his shirt; he came running out from among the people into the pond, and came and seized him on the top of his head, and plunged his head under water several times; he stood by the side of the pond; he wetted his shoes a little I believe.

Q. Did you see him do any thing else?

Baldwin. No; but whilst he was doing this, the people about the pond, that I take it knew him well, cried out get away, get away, get away; you have no business there above any body; then he looked round and went out, and I saw him afterwards put his cloaths on, that is, I saw his hands raised up above the rest.

Q. How far were his cloaths from the pond?

Baldwin. About three yards from where the deceased lay; I went away then; that was about a quarter after four.

Q. How near was you to Campbell when you heard him talk to the deceased about Eastman?

Baldwin. About three foot; he said, don't you know Eastman; the deceased said, for Gods sake spare my life, and I will hurt nobody; I looked upon it as a kind of a jeer.

Q. Had you ever seen Campbell before?

Baldwin. Never to my knowledge.

Q. When did you see him the first time after that?

Baldwin. At the Brown Bear near Sir John Fieldings ; I said, that is the man, as I saw him coming along.

Q. Did you see any other man in his shirt besides this man?

Baldwin. No; nor did I ever hear of any other.

Cross Examination.

Q. You saw very little of it till you came out of this public house?

Baldwin. No.

Q. You say you saw Campbell come up to Clarke and say, don't you know William Eastman?

Baldwin. Yes.

Q. You was near him you say?

Baldwin. Yes; I took notice of his person, and I knew him as well when he was stript as when he was dressed; and should know him now if he was naked; I was behind him, facing the deceased; I could see the side of his face and his legs.

Q. But you had not a full view of his face when he was speaking to Clarke?

Baldwin. No, rather a side view.

Q. You said you looked at his legs, and should know him if he was stripped?

Baldwin. Yes; I should know him by his make among five thousand people.

Q. Without looking at his face?

Baldwin. I would see his face; though I know him, take him from head to stern.

Q. Whether do you mean to say that you know him by his face, or the make of his person; should you know him with his face hid?

Baldwin. I think I should; he is made like a man double jointed.

Q. You say he was in a lightish coloured coat?

Baldwin. Yes.

Q. You went into the public house about a quarter after four?

Baldwin. Yes.

Q. You was not in the public house from the time you first came out till after four o'clock?

Baldwin. No.

Q. What distance was he from you when he was in his shirt?

Baldwin. About six or seven yards; when he quitted him I saw the water bubble out of Clarke's mouth.

Robert Lloyd . I keep a public house in Hare-street.

Q. Did you see Campbell after the murder of Clarke that day?

Lloyd. When he was in my house the last time the report was that Clarke was dead; he was not in at all when the man passed by.

Q. What time might it be when he came the first time into your house?

Lloyd. Some time after the man passed by into the field.

Q. What time of day?

Baldwin. Between four and five in the afternoon; I keep the King and Queen by the fields; it might be four; I am not certain as to the time; it was some time after the man had passed by my house with the mob following him.

Q. What time was it when he came the second time into your house?

Lloyd. Not a great while afterwards; it might be about five o'clock; he was not a great while out before he came in again; it was said Clarke was dead before he came the second time; he did not stay long at my house either time.

Q. Did you make any remark upon his appearing in your house at either time?

Lloyd. Yes.

Q. Did you make any remark upon his appearing in your house the second time?

Baldwin. Yes; he had a linen thing or frock over his cloaths, such as sailors wear; I said you have got a different dress; he said, I am going to India, will you be my bondsman?

Q. Do you recollect how he was dressed when you first saw him?

Baldwin. In such coloured cloaths as he has on now; I took but little notice of him then.

Note he was dressed in a darkish drab coloured coat.

Q. How far is Virginia-street from your house?

Baldwin. But a little way.

Cross Examination.

Q. Was it half or a quarter of an hour before he came in again?

Baldwin. Half an hour I suppose?

Q. Did he appear at all confused?

Baldwin. No; not in the least.

Elizabeth Breech . I saw Clarke in the pond, I was a good way off in the mob I saw a great many stones and bricks thrown at him, but by whom I don't know.

Q. Did you see any body go into the pond to him?

Breech. No.

Q. Did you see a man in his shirt?

Breech. Yes; but I did not see him do any thing.

Q. Did you know the man in his shirt?

Breech. No.

Q. Was he a tall or a short man?

Breech. I don't know; I was standing on the other side of the pond.

Council. Don't be afraid, there can no harm happen to you for any thing you are to do here.* Did you see a man that afternoon dressed in a frock over his cloaths?

* The witness trembled, and seemed much frightened.

Breech. No farther than as I came along, I saw a man in a frock; a gentleman said That is the man that was oy the side of the pond.

Q. You don't know that man was the same you saw before in his shirt?

Breech. No.

Q. Was he a tall or a short man that was in his shirt?

Breech. I don't know; I but just saw the glimple of him.

Q. Did you see Clarke's head ducked in the pond?

Breech. No, nor where the bricks came from I don't know; I don't know who throwed them.

Q. Did you see Clarke attempt to get out of the pond?

Breech. I did not; I stood by Mrs Scales, I saw him come out once or twice, and they put him in again.

Q. When he was grappling to get up did you see him thrown back again?

Breech. Only when the mob brought him back to throw him in again.

The Fourth and last Part of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.

Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd July 1771
Reference Numbert17710703-59

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THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON; And also the Gaol-Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX; HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 3d, Thursday the 4th, Friday the 5th, Saturday the 6th, Monday the 8th, Tuesday the 9th, Wednesday the 10th, and Thursday the 11th of July, 1771.

In the Eleventh Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. Being the Sixth SESSION in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honourable BRASS CROSBY, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.



Sold by T. EVANS, No. 54, in PATER-NOSTER ROW.

[Price Six-pence.]


King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery, held for the City of LONDON, &c.

[Continuation of Stroud and Campbell's Trial.]

Q. I am speaking of that time you saw him crawling upon his hands and knees to get out of the pond?

Breech. I cannot say; I did not stand so near as to take so much notice.

Q. How did he get in again?

Breech. Some of the mob throw'd him in; I do not know them.

Q. Are you sure you never saw that man that day before you saw him in his shirt?

Breech. No, never to my knowledge; I only saw the glimpse of him as he went away.

Cross Examination.

Q. Was you there from the beginning to the end?

Breech. Yes.

Q. Did you see the woman prisoner?

Breech. Yes; but I did not see her do any thing.

Q. After Clarke was dead you went to carry him to the work-house?

Breech. Yes.

Q. It was there the man with the frock came up?

Breech. I saw a man there. Somebody said, That is the man with the frock; I made no observation upon it myself.

James Knight . I am a gardener.

Q. Where do you work?

Knight. At Mr. Pankley's garden, near Vauxhall: I was by the pond when Clarke was killed; I did not see him till he was at the pond.

Q. Do you know any body that was there that used him ill?

Knight. Yes, Henry Stroud ; that is the man; (pointing to him.)

Q. What part did he take in this business?

Knight. I saw a man shove Clarke under water; when he got up he pumped the water out of his mouth; it was a short man, about my size, in a brown cut wig; he was in his shirt. I don't think I should know him if I was to see him again. After that Clarke had thrown the water out of his mouth again, then Henry Stroud threw two bricks, and hit him on the side of his head, which caused him to bleed very much; each brickbat knocked him down in the water, and he got up again.

Q. How long was he in the water before he got up again?

Knight. He was very weak; he got up as soon as he could; as soon as he got his head above the water again then Stroud throw'd a second brick at him, and knocked him down again.

Q. Are you sure that was Stroud?

Knight. Yes; I have known him four or five years. I stood but two or three yards behind him. I have worked with him some years.

Q. How was he drest?

Knight. In an old blue waistcoat; he had the same coat or waistcoat, or such sort, as he has now.

Q. Do you know one Davy?

Knight. Yes; very well.

Q. What is become of him?

Knight. I have not seen him lately; he follows gardening.

Q. How long after the murder did you see Davy?

Knight. I cannot say to a day. Davy worked along with me at that time; I saw him the same day this murder was done.

Q. What time was it when you drank with him?

Knight. Four or five days, or a week afterwards. I drank with him at the Ax, in Hackney road; Stroud came in, and called for a pint of beer; I said, when he came in, D - n it, here is the man I have been after all day; I will take him up; he is the man that murdered Clarke, and I will have the hundred pounds reward.

Q. Where had you been looking for him?

Knight. I had not been looking for him; I spoke that out of a joke; I had seen him do it, therefore I was not afraid to say it; I spoke it in the open tap room.

Q. What did Stroud say or do upon that?

Knight. He said I was a foolish sort of a fellow. I asked him to lend me a shilling; he said he had no money; he did not stay five minutes after he came in.

Q. Did he understand you that you spoke in joke?

Knight. I do not know whether he did or not; he would not drink with me, but walked out of the house; I did not see him again, while last Friday se'nnight: then I saw him at Sir John Fielding's, in custody.

Q. How came they to find you as a witness?

Knight. I went to one Joe Chambers , and spoke there of what I had seen; I was that way about a week after the thing was done; I said there that Henry Stroud deserved hanging, for he had knocked the man down twice, with two brick-bats, which was a cruel murder.

Q. Did you tell him the name at that time, or only of the thing?

Knight. I did not mention his name.

Q. Did you describe him to Chambers.

Knight. No.

Q. Did you mention to Chambers that you had seen him at the Ax.

Knight. Yes.

Q. Did you tell him Davy, one of your company, was there?

Knight. I did not mention any thing about Davy.

Q. Did Davy know his name?

Knight. I dare say he did.

Q. He knew Chambers, did he?

Knight. I cannot say whether he knew his name or not.

Q. Pray did you tell Chambers that he was a gardener?

Knight. I did not tell him about his being a gardener.

Q. You said just now you knew Stroud, you had known him, I think, four or five years?

Knight. Yes.

Q. Did you know Eastman, that was hanged?

Knight. Yes.

Q. Was he any relation of Stroud's?

Knight. A brother-in-law.

Q. Eastman was hanged upon Clarke's evidence I believe.

Knight. Yes.

Cross Examination.

Q. Upon the sixteenth of April you was there?

Knight. Yes.

Q. What time did you come?

Knight. About four, or just before it, in the afternoon.

Q. About a week afterwards you saw Stroud at the public house?

Knight. Yes.

Council for the Crown. Who carried you before the justice?

Knight. Joe Chambers , and Mr. George.

Prisoners Council. How long was it after the sixteenth of April you saw Stroud at the public house?

Knight. Four or five days, or a week after the murder.

Q. After Stroud came in, did you ask to drink with him, or began talking of charging him and geting the hundred pounds?

Knight. I asked him to drink first; I said first, when I saw him coming, this is the man that killed Clarke, &c.

Q. What did he say to you?

Knight. He said nothing to me in no shape.

Q. Did not he call you a foolish fellow?

Knight. No not that I remember.

Q. You gave your evidence just now, that you charged him with being the man that killed Clarke; 'Stroud said I was a foolish of a fellow.'

Knight. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Did not you say so?

Knight. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Did not you tell him upon that day, If you will not give me a pot of beer, I will swear-it?

Knight. I said, if he would not, I would take him up at once.

Q. Did not he stay and drink his beer?

Knight. He was not there above five minutes.

Q. Did not you tell him, unless he would give you a pot of beer you would swear it against him, and take him up?

Knight. Yes; he staid and drank the beer, and out he went.

Q. Are you sure you was awake when he went out of the house, or drunk and asleep.

Knight. As sober as I am now, and awake.

Q. After he was gone you had some conversation with Davy, had not you?

Knight. Yes.

Q. You stayed till Stroud was gone, and Davy likewise?

Knight. Yes.

Q. What conversation had you about Stroud, when he was gone?

Knight. Nothing particular.

Q. Tell me, yes or no, whether you offered Davy, any part of the reward, that he should go marks if he would swear against him?

Knight. I never offered him any such thing.

Q. He is here.

Knight. I am not afraid to face any man.

Q. Did not you say you wished you knew any body that would swear any thing against Stroud?

Knight. I did not say any such thing.

Q. Did not you say, if you had seen any thing of him yourself, you would go and inform against him?

Knight. I did not say any such thing.

Q. How long was it after this conversation before you made any information?

Knight. I made no information against him, till I was fetched out of the ground last Thursday.

Q. Who fetched you out of the ground?

Knight. Joseph Chambers , and Thomas George .

Q. Joe Chambers sent for you?

Knight. The man came into my master's yard.

Q. What did he say?

Knight. He said I must come along with him, and speak the right truth concerning this murder.

Q. When you told Chambers that you knew a man that committed the murder, did you or not tell him his name was Stroud?

Knight. I never mentioned the man's name.

Q. You knew his name?

Knight. Yes; because I had worked with him some months before.

Q. Pray did Chambers know where you worked till the time he fetched you?

Knight. No; I believe not.

Q. You had some conversation with Chambers, but made no information yourself.

Knight. No.

Q. What was your conversation with Chambers?

Knight. I told him I knew the man that threw two brick-bats and knocked Clarke down twice; that was all the conversation I had with him.

Q. You say, upon your oath, that you did not say to Davy, if you had seen Stroud do any thing you would have sworn it, and wished you could get any body that could?

Knight. No; it was the last of my thoughts to trouble the man in any degree; I would not have hurt him if I could have helped it.

Q. I ask you, upon your oath, whether you told Davy that you came too late to see any thing, or you would have got a hundred pounds?

Knight. I did not say any such thing.

Council for the Crown. If Chambers had not found you out at the garden, and so carried you to the justice of the peace, was it your own intention to interfere in the matter, and give evidence against Stroud?

Knight. I never would have troubled myself about it, nor have given any information: I have worked and drank many a pint and pot of beer with Stroud.

Court. I understood you first that you spoke it in jest, when you said you would take him up and get a hundred pounds reward?

Knight. Yes. I believe that is the man (pointing to Campbell) that I saw shove Clarke under the water.

Q. Have you never seen him from that time to this?

Knight. No.

Q. Have you ever seen him before?

Knight. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Have you any memory of his countenance?

Knight. Not much, he was about my size.

Q. How near was you to the deceased; was you there at the time he was ducked?

Knight. About four yards from the edge of the pond.

Campbell. He said the person that did that was a person much of his own stature.(Knight goes and Stands by Campbell, he appears to be the head.)

Q. Do you give that opinion still?

Knight. It is the man, as high as I can guess; I think it is the man.

John Jackson . I was near the pond while Clarke was in; I saw Mrs. Horsford there; I am sure that is the woman; she had a black, or a dark grey gown on. I did not care to take much notice of any body, for I was frightened.

Q. Did you hear her say any thing?

Jackson. Yes; I heard some people say, You had better go away; she said she would not go away. I saw her take up a piece of a brick, and run towards the pond.

Q. You have seen her since, I believe?

Jackson. Yes.

Q. Did you know her as soon as you saw her again before the justice?

Jackson. Yes.

Q. Did you see her more than once at the pond?

Jackson. I don't know that I saw her after that. I saw her come into the field; I heard her say she jumped out of the loom as soon as she heard the mob: I went another way, and did not take notice of what she did.

Ann Jackson . I was at the pond when Clarke was in it. I saw Mrs. Horsford, the prisoner, there: I stood upon a hill just by the pond; a woman was crying and tearing by the pond: I ran from the hill; What is the matter, I said; there is Mrs. Horsford; somebody said they wanted to drive her away; she said she would not go away; she took up a brickbat, and said she would as soon die as her husband; she throwed the brickbat at Clarke; who was in the pond; it went into the pond: about an hour afterwards, they said he was gone.

Q. Did the brickbat hit Clarke?

Jackson. I cannot say; I saw it go into the pond; I cannot be positive whether it hit him or not; there were other people throwing as well as she: then they made a hollowing.

Cross Examination.

Q. You and your husband were standing together upon the little hill?

Jackson. He was not with me then.

Q. Who were those people along with her that were advising her to go?

Jackson. I saw nobody but a weaver that advised her to go home.

Q. You say you saw her throw, but did not see it hit Clarke?

Jackson. No; it fell down by his side; she said this was the man that was the ocsion of her husband's death; she said her poor husband lost his life by this man in the pond; she was crying shockingly.

Q. Did she seem to be of such a temper of mind as to be able to know what she said?

Jackson. She was not in liquor; she looked very bad, and, by all account, had just come out of her sick bed; she looked as it she took on upon something or other.

Council for the Crown. When did you first give evidence of this; how long after it happened?

Jackson. I cannot tell; my husband can, I believe.

Judith Morris . I was in the field when Clarke was in the pond. I saw Mrs. Horsford there.

Q. Did you know her before?

Morris. Yes; seven years.

Q. You are well acquainted with her?

Morris. Very well.

Q. Did you see her in the field before Clarke was in the pond the last time?

Morris. Yes; he was almost dead then.

Q. Did you see her do or hear her say any thing when she came into the field?

Morris. I was going home; I met her upon a little narrow bridge; I put my hand under her arm, and said, Mrs. Horsford, come home, for you are a woman, that will be remarked here; I beg you will go home with me: she said she would go and look at him; I turned back, and followed her; I kept as close to her as ever. I could; I went and stood by Frank Clarke ; she and I together: I don't think she was out of my sight during the time. I came home with her, and parted with her by Bethnal-green work house; she was not above a few yards from me all the time she was there.

Q. How long did she stay there after she said she would turn back and look at him?

Morris. About three quarters of an hour. I saw her go to the pond, and speak to him; she said, Clarke, Clarke, I am left a widow; my child is fatherless on account of you, and more of your companions.

Q. Did she say any thing else?

Morris. I cannot recollect any thing particular of the words she said; I believe she said Do you remember poor William Eastman ? Clarke was naked in the pond, begging for mercy, and praying to God, as I thought, by his motions.

Q. Did you see any thing in Mrs. Horsford's hands?

Morris. Nothing at all.

Cross Examination.

Q. Was you so near that if she had done any injury to Clarke you must have seen it?

Morris. Yes.

Q. You had your eyes upon her all the time?

Morris. I moved my eyes about; she was not out of my sight or hearing all the time.

Q. Did you leave her there?

Morris. I staid till Clarke was dead.

Q. Did you lay hold of her arm upon any occasion?

Morris. Yes; when I met her in the field I put my hand under her arm; I thought I would keep her from going to see him, as she was an injured woman.

Q. As you stood by the pond had you occasion to put your hand under her arm?

Morris. Not that I know of.

Prisoner's Council. Was not she in a very weak, sickly condition at that time?

Morris. She cried.

- Gibson. I was standing by the pond side; I saw her a coming. Knowing she had lost her husband, I said to the people, if any of you know this woman, and have any value for her, take her away; she came flying to the pond in great agony; she did not do any thing, to my knowledge; she looked as if she was out of her senses, and looked wild.

Stroud's Defence.

I am as innocent of the affair as ever was a child in the world. I neither handled brick, stone, tile, nor anything, so help me God.

Campbell. I should be glad to have asked Baldwin what time of day it was he saw me at the pond?

Q. to Baldwin. What time did you first see Robert Campbell there?

Baldwin. As near as I can guess about four o'clock; I could not see any dial; it snowed hard.

Campbell. How long did you see me at the pond?

Baldwin. About two minutes, when you was going to throw him in.

Campbell's Defence.

In my defence I have got this to say. I had been all that day in the city looking for work. I am a weaver , and sometimes a seaman. I went to Mr. Wilkinson's warehouse, in Friday-street, and staid till about two o'clock; I then went to Mr. Holmes's, in Milk-street, Cheapside; I went into the alehouse, and seeing some friends, they asked me drink; I had a person with me; they asked him first, and then they asked me; I did not know

their names; I knew them by sight. It is the Dolphin, I understand, that I went to; I did not know the sign till lately; it is the corner of the market; the person that was with me advised me to go over to Mr. Holmes's, and ask if he had had any work to give out, which I did. I staid in the passage of the house half an hour; when I found an opportunity I went into the warehouse, and asked the foreman if he had any work to give out; he said, No; a person that was there stiad I was a good workman in the black branch; he said, I wish I could relieve every one that comes, for plenty are out of work; I have got nothing, I assure you. I came back to the same alehouse again, and met my friend, and several more; I told them I was out of work, and had been down to the water side: I used to go on board ships, to rig them, as I understand it: my friend said, after we had drank four pots of purl and two pints of beer, I would advise you to go and ask at Mr. Rimmington's warehouse, in the said Milk-street, lower down in the street; I went and asked there; Mr. Rimmington's foreman said there was not any work; I said, You promised me, if you had any, that you would let Mr. Jones know it; he said, I have not any; I am sorry for it; I have heard you are a good workman: he said he would take the first opportunity to take me in. I came back to my friend again; he had some little company, and was drinking; while he staid, I staid; I did not mind the time, how long it was; we left the place after we had drank several pints of beer: upon that, I said to my friend, Let us go away, if one thing will not do I must see and get another; he said, Where will you go? I said, Towards the India House; he said, Have you a mind to go that way? I said, Yes; what signifies my standing here; I have sold and pawned every thing I can do, and it will not do or me to stand here; I will therefore go to the East or West Indies, if I can find a good captain of a West India ship; I was once steward of a West Indiaman, if that ship is come home I will go on board her in the same station. Two or three days before, I had been enquiring after that ship, but it was not come home; my friend and I came along the city, till we got to the India House; I said, Go into the White Swan, and I will come to you presently; I went down a turning that comes from the White Swan, went into the India House, pushed open the pay-office door, I saw nobody there but two or three runners belonging to the house; I said, It is all over with me to day. I came to my friend, who was drinking at the White Swan, Leadenhall-street; I found him, in company with one Mr. Touchit: the gentleman, seemingly, looked like a seaman; I found him afterwards to be such; they were talking about some affairs of their own, I don't know what: after a little time he asked me to drink; so I drank: presently after he said, Mr. Touchit, Here is a poor man has got four small children, and two or three sick; his intentions are to go to sea, and if you could get him a West India voyage, it would be better than an East; he said, To be sure it would; but how do you know where the man's mind is bent to? His mind is bent to go any where, said my friend: the gentleman said, If I was a seaman, I should be accepted of; if, he said, you will meet me at the Blacksmith's Arms tomorrow morning, I will speak to a West India captain; I have, for my own part, left off the sea, and have bought three estates. I thanked him, so we had three or four pints of beer, and spent some time in drinking it, and talking together; I said to my friend, Let us go home and tell my wife what news we have heard. We steered towards home; we went along Leadenhall-street, into Whitechapel, till we got into Rose-lane; there I left my friend at the same house were I first met him; he said to me, If you will call on me in an hour's time, I will go with you to another warehouse and speak for you. I went with him up the remaining part of Rose-lane, till I came to Christ church, Middlesex, which is called Spital-fields church. I went up Church-street, into Brick-lane; just at the Seven Stars there is a horse ride, which is the back part of some master weaver houses; they have doors come into that place where their work people are served; I saw a young man coming out of the house, one Mr. Halley, with silk; I said, You have work, Sir; he said, Yes; have you got work? I said, No; (I believe he is here) said he, What do you think of doing? I said, I don't intend to look out for any more now; my intention is solely to go to sea; I will go and be impressed on board, if I can't get a bondsman; I said, when I came home, I could do better at sea than as at present, getting sometimes a shilling a day, and sometimes nothing: I met one Bateman, that was along with this Mr. Proctor; I did not know him; we spoke together; I had a little knowledge of him; we went to the sign of the Phoenix, in Phoenix street, and had two pints of beer there along with this Proctor, and one Mr. Bacon; when we came out of the house, it was half past three o'clock and better, as Mr. Holley tells me, when he left his master's house, because the quarters at Christ church had gone; he said it was half an hour after three, or better; he has told me so since: after that I had two pints of beer at the Phoenix; we heard somebody say that the people had got Clarke: then I went to Mr. Lloyd's, that was the first time; I just went to the edge of the ground, and no farther, and returned with this Bateman and Proctor: I then went home to my wife: I said, I will go down, and see if the Gravesend boats go away, and will go there, and ship on board and receive the bounty and impress money at once on board the ship: I put on my jacket and frock; Nancy said I, I will go on board; she said, God bless you, I wish you luck. I went to Mr. Lloyd's to look into the paper; I called for a glass of gin at the bar; the landlord of the house said, Where are you going? I said, I am going to Gravesend. Then I saw one Mr. Hurd; he said, So Campbell, where are you going to night? I said, To Gravesend; Well, says he, we will drink a pint of beer together; he called for a pint of twopenny, and we drank it together. I went away towards Billingsgate; I thought it was better, as it was a late tide, not to go on board; it must have been early in the morning before I could have got down, so had better go in a morning tide, for my affairs were so bad I did not know what to do to get a little money to support my family.

For Stroud's Character.

John Rutter . I am a labourer; I know something of Stroud.

Q. Was you ever at Mr. Lloyd's drinking with him?

Rutter, Yes; at Mr. Lloyd's the King and Queen, when Stroud and the man was going by; I and one Cole were drinking together about a quarter of an hour after; Stroud and I went together to see what was the matter.

Q. You are not weavers either of you?

Rutter. No; we went down to the pond, and we saw Clarke was in the pond.

Q. What did Stroud say or do, upon that occasion?

Rutter. Nothing about it, only shook his head and said, he was a sad man.

Q. Who?

Rutter. Clarke was a sad man; so he was by every bodies account.

Q. Did you stand by him?

Rutter. Yes, all the time; not above a yard and a half off, and never saw him sling any thing, a great mob of people did; but I did not see him.

Q. If he had thrown any thing you must have seen it?

Rutter. Yes; he never offered such a thing.

Q. You were at Lloyd's with him a second time?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. What was done then?

Rutter. They were pulling him out of the pond.

Q. Stroud came back with you the first time?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Did you stay by him all the time?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Did he throw any thing upon your oath?

Rutter. He did not.

Q. Did you see the man that pulled him out of the pond to assist him?

Rutter. There were a couple of men, I did not know who they were.

Q. Did you see by this man's behaviour that he shewed a desire to assist this poor man?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. How did he show it?

Rutter. He strove to get hold of him, to pull him out.

Q. Did you go back with him again to Mr. Lloyds?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. There has been a man here has said, he saw him throw three or four brickbats?

Rutter. If he did, I did not see him.

Cross Examination.

Q. Where do you live now?

Rutter. In London.

Q. Whereabouts?

Rutter. In Fleet-street.

Q. Whereabout in Fleet-street?

Rutter. The man's name is Jemmy Dowlam.

Q. How long have you lodged there?

Rutter. About a quarter of a year.

Q. Constantly?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. What have you been employed in during that time?

Rutter. I have been a labourer in the brewhouse.

Q. At what brewhouse?

Rutter. Trueman's.

Q. The whole time?

Rutter. No; I have not been there long.

Q. Where was you at work when this happened?

Rutter. At Mr. Woolridge's garden.

Q. How long did you continue there?

Rutter. Five or six weeks.

Q. Lodging all the while in Fleet-street?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. How long had you been at work there, before this happened?

Rutter. It might be a month.

Q. And worked five or six weeks afterwards?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. You worked nine weeks in all?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Did you work there every day?

Rutter. When it was fine that we could work.

Q. Did not you work there every day?

Rutter. We could do no work when it rained.

Q. What did you do then?

Rutter. No work at all.

Q. So you went to this alehouse and went along with Stroud to the pond?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Did you stand quite still the whole time?

Rutter. No; we kept going round the mob and such like, the mob kept crowding, so we could not stand still.

Q. Did you see no stones thrown?

Rutter. Yes, a great many; by different people; I don't know any one of them.

Q. The mob forced about very much?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Was you present at the time when they said, the justices people were coming?

Rutter. I did not mind that.

Q. Did you mind when the mob huzza'd and ran away from the pond?

Rutter. Yes; then the man was out.

Q. Then there was a great confusion at that time; how many people do you think was there?

Rutter. Abundance.

Q. How far did they run back?

Rutter. Twenty yards from the pond.

Q. Was you in the inside or on the outside at that time?

Rutter. On the outside.

Q. So you knew nobody that did it?

Rutter. No; several threw at him, and the blood ran all down.

Q. So you stood to see that and did not help him?

Rutter. I thought it a sad thing a poor man should be served so ill.

Q. Did you hear many other people besides Stroud say he was a sad fellow?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Was it a common cry?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. Some people that said so threw stones I suppose?

Rutter. Yes.

Q. So they all agreed with Stroud that he was a sad fellow?

Rutter. Yes.

John Winterson . I am a gardiner; I worked for Mr. Woolridge at this time.

Q. Did you see Stroud that day?

Winterson. Yes.

Q. Was you at the pond?

Winterson. Yes; I saw a great quantity of people,

"I thought they dropt out of the clouds;" somebody said, it was a Jew's burying, so we ran out; I saw Stroud when I came there, but did not see him meddle or make; Stroud was out before me.

Q. How long had he been out?

Winterson. A dinner time.

Q. What time did you go?

Winterson. About ten minutes after three; I went to the pond, and looked and saw a man

upon his knees in blood, with his head bruised very much; I saw Stroud one of the first I saw that I knew.

Q. How long did you stay?

Winterson. About fifteen or twenty minutes.

Q. Was he at all active in the business?

Winterson. I did not see him; he did not throw any thing while we were there; I thought they were all boys.

Council for the Crown. Why did not you drive the boys away.

Winterson. It was very cold and began to snow; and I was ready to perish.

Q. Would you stand by and see a man pelting to death by a parcel of boys and not drive them away?

Winterson. I could see the things come, and thought it was done by boys.

Q. Why did not you drive them away?

Winterson. There was a numerous sight of people, and I did not chuse to meddle or make; it snowed hard, and I had a good many cucumbers to take care of.

Q. So the cucumbers were the reason of your not protecting this man's life?

Winterson. If I had gone my master's business might have suffered two or three hundred pounds.

Court. Then why did you leave your master's business to go to see this thing at all?

Winterson. I thought they dropt out of the cloud.

Q. Was you present at Mr. Woolridge's when Chambers came there?

Winterson. I believe Stroud was not far from him, but can't recollect.

Council for the Crown. Do you know where Chamber's wife is?

Winterson. I heard she ran away.

Q. Were there many people in the same way as you about the pond that did not seem to have any desire to hurt the man?

Winterson. There were two or three thousand people there I suppose, and I did not see any body meddle or make.

Q. What people that were innocent?

Winterson. The greatest part of them, I believe.

Q. What and let these boys knock the man on the head?

Winterson. They were afraid to meddle or make; a man would not venture himself among the mob.

Court. Yet these two or three thousand were all peaceable, and these boys did the mischief?

Winterson. I could not swear to any man; Stroud I knew; every man would be afraid of coming into a hobble.

John Bailey . I work in Mr. Woolridge's gardens.

Q. Do you remember Stroud's being at work that day?

Bailey. Yes; I did not see the mob pass by; I saw them all of a body at the pond; I could not imagine where they all came from. I went down to the pond; Clarke had got about three yards from the pond; his cloaths were very heavy; he was soon in the pond again; I did not see Stroud at that time; I did afterwards.

Q. Did you see bricks and other things flung at the deceased?

Bailey. Yes, and it was impossible to see who they came from.

Q. Did you see him fling any thing at all?

Bailey. I did not; I have worked with him seven years.

Q. So you think he is a man of a cruel disposition, capable of being concerned in a thing of this kind?

Bailey. He is a peaceable man; I hardly ever heard him have a word with a man in his life.

Mark Cole . I went out of the house into the street at the beginning of the disturbance; I went into Hare-street; the mob were running into the field; I went into the King and Queen, Mr. Lloyd's; I saw Stroud sitting over beer.

Q. Was nobody with him?

Cole. I cannot say.

Q. Did he go out?

Cole. I was there all the whole time and never missed Stroud, to the best of my knowledge, above half an hour.

Q. What time was it when you first saw him?

Cole. About three.

Q. Do you know when he came in again?

Cole. The first of my seeing him was about half after three; when he came in again.

Cross Examination.

Q. You was so near this place you probably heard of what was passing, though you did not see it?

Cole. Not a word.

Q. Not hear of it at Lloyd's; being so nigh

the field you would hear what was going on there?

Cole. I heard they had got a man in the field, and were using him ill; therefore I would not go in.

Q. What do you mean by saying no, not a word.

Cole. I heard people talking about it.

Q. What did you mean by saying you was by?

Cole. I was in the house.

Q. You never missed Stroud but half an hour, and he returned about half after three.

Cole. Yes, he sat down about three quarters of an hour before Clarke died.

Q. Then he could not be present at the pond side when Clarke died?

Cole. No, he sat at the same box with me when people came in and said the deceased was dead.

Q. Then he could not be present when Clarke died?

Cole. No.

Council for the Prisoner. As you was not at the pond you cannot be certain when the man died, only what the other people said?

Cole. No.

- Lloyd. I have been examined before. I keep the King and Queen; the prisoner Stroud came to my house that afternoon, and had a pint of beer; and when there was a noise, that a great number of people were coming up the street, I went to the door to see what was the matter; seeing a great many people I bolted my door, and would not let any body in and out; so he was in for some time; he went out; I did not miss him long; I cannot say for how long.

Q. Was the mob gone by a good while before he went out?

Lloyd. Some time.

Q. Who was along with him?

Lloyd. I cannot rightly recollect; there were several people in the house.

Q. Do you know the gardener, the man that stood up just now?

Lloyd. I have seen him at my house.

Q. Did he go out and return back with him?

Lloyd. I cannot be sure whether he did or not; I don't remember; I have known Stroud four or five years.

Q. What is the general character you have heard of him.

Lloyd. A quiet, honest, civil man. I never saw him enter into any quarrel or dispute with any body in my house; and he has been there a good many times.

Cross Examination.

Q. I think you said you do not recollect the time exactly; that it was very soon after the mob went by the first time?

Lloyd. The people came to the door and wanted to come in; I bolted the door; the house was filled up with people; I was not certain when he went; in a little time again I remember serving him with some more beer; I cannot tell how long he was out.

- Bath. I live in Hackney-road; I am a gardener; I live with my father.

Q. Do you know James Knight ?

Bath. Very well; the day Clarke was killed, he and my father and I went down to Spital-fields to Mr. Warren's warehouse; in going along a young man asked us if we were going to see the deceased ducked; Knight was along with me; he set out with us from our house.

Q. Where do you live?

Bath. At Hackney-road, between the Nag's head and the turnpike at Cambridge heath.

Q. What time was this?

Bath. About half after two; we saw a young lad in the Gibralter field, Mr. Walton's apprentice, he asked us if we were going to see the deceased ducked; we told him no, we were going down to Mr. Warren's warehouse for some baskets; when we came the baskets were not there; we went to Mr. Atkinson's house, adjoining to Mr. Woolridge's, he is a gardener; we found the baskets; we took up two loads of them, and came away to Mr. Woolridge's ground.

Q. How far is it from Cambridge-heath to Mr. Warren's?

Bath. Pretty near two miles.

Q. You did not set out till after two.

Bath. Half after two I believe.

Q. What time did you meet that boy?

Bath. Wanting a quarter of three.

Q. What time was it when you got to Mr. Atkinson's?

Bath. About a quarter after three; we took up our loads and went to the King and Queen and there pitched; it was then pretty near half an hour after three; we saw two young men coming along, one asked the other if

the mar was in the pit; he said, Yes; the other said, he says he shall not come out any more; I said, we will go and see him; Knight and I went together, we took up the two loads and carried them rather better than half way; we pitched them down and my father stood to take care of the baskets; Knight was in my company all the time.

Q. Knight went away with you?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Where at that time did you leave Clarke?

Bath. Between the sand house and the pit, upon the ground, lying upon his back; dying, as I suppose.

Q. What time of day was that?

Bath. Better than half after three; we went home, and got there before four.

Q. And Knight was in your company the whole time?

Bath. Yes.

Cross Examination.

Q. What became of Knight after he got to your father's house?

Bath. He went away from my father's house.

Q. What are you?

Bath. A gardener.

Q. Is your father a gardener?

Bath. Yes.

Q. How long have you known Knight?

Bath: Better then four years.

Q. Where did you work upon the 16th of April?

Bath. At my father's.

Q. How do you know the time?

Bath. We go to dinner at one, and come away at two.

Q. Now when you were at the pond was there a great number of people about?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Did you get near to him?

Bath. Yes; within a yard, I dare say of him.

Q. And Knight was along with you all the time?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Then there was not a great throng of people, it was easy to get along?

Bath. Not a great throng; we pushed thro' with much ado.

Q. Who did you see by at that time?

Bath. Nobody, that I know of.

Q. Do you know the prisoner Stroud?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Did you see him throw any thing?

Bath. No.

Q. Did you see no stones thrown at all?

Bath. No.

Council for the Prisoner. The man was upon his back a dying, when you came there.

Bath. Yes.

Council for the Crown. The place you saw him at was upon the sand, between the sand-house and the pond.

Bath. Yes; there we found him, and there we left him.

Q. That is the place he was first taken to.

Bath. He died there, by all account.

Q. How long was it after that before you got home?

Bath, About a quarter of an hour.

Q. So you heard that this man was going to be knocked on the head, and your father heard it.

Bath. Yes.

Q. Did your father say nothing about your going to help him?

Bath. No.

Q. He had no objection then to his being knocked on the head no more than you?

Bath. It was out of our power to help him.

Council for the Crown. If your lordship pleases to call Knight, and see what he will make of this story. (Knight is called.)

Q. Have you been present while this man has been examined?

Knight. Yes.

Q. What do you say to it; was the man brought to the same place when he died, he had been brought to before when taken out of the pond the first time.

Knight. When I first went, I saw a man go to him, and shove him under water.

Q. How long was you there with Bath?

Knight. From a quarter before four, 'till almost half an hour after.

Q. Was Bath with you at that time?

Knight. Yes; there was a very great crowd, we were not together all the time.

Q. The account he gives is, that the man was dying when you came away together.

Knight. I stood there while the man was pelting in the pond, and stood by Stroud, and saw him knocked down.

Bath. We were not above ten minutes at the pond; I will take my oath of it.

Council for the prisoner to Knight. Did you pitch the baskets, and leave them in the care of old Mr. Bath.

Knight. Yes.

Q. How long did you stay at the pond?

Knight. From about a quarter before four, till near half after.

Q. Then you was there three quarters of an hour?

Knight. Yes; I believe I was.

- Bath. The last witness is my son.

Q. Did you send your son and this Knight, the witness, for some baskets to the warehouse in Spitalfields?

Bath. Yes; and I went with them; they went afterwards to Mr. Atkinson's.

Q. As you was going from the King and Queen you heard of this mob at the pond?

Bath. Yes; they pitched the baskets, then they took them up again, and carried them almost to the pond.

Q. Do tell your story, how long it was before they came back and went home?

Bath. I fancy it was near four o'clock when they pitched the baskets; I took care of the baskets.

Q. How long was it before they came back?

Bath. Not above ten minutes, or a quarter of an hour.

Q. How often did they pitch their baskets before they came to the pond?

Bath. Once before, and once when they came there.

Q. What time was it when you got home?

Bath. I cannot say.

Q. You say it was near four o'clock when they pitched the baskets down?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Now I ask you what time it was when you got home?

Bath. I think it must be between four and five o'clock.

Q. Do you think a quarter, or half after four?

Bath. I cannot say.

Q. Could you be positive to say, upon your oath, that from the time they left you at the pond was not three quarters of an hour?

Bath. I could take an oath of that; I don't think it was above a quarter of an hour in all.

Q. Did you meet, going home, a man that is called Davy Higgins?

Bath. I don't remember; I will not say.

Cross Examination.

Q. You heard before these people went away that they were going to see this man murdered?

Bath. We heard the man was going to be ducked; the mob told us he had been in the field about an hour.

Q. How came you not to go yourself to see such a sight?

Bath. I had other business; I was to mind the baskets.

Q. Then you had the curiosity, I suppose, to enquire what they had seen when they came back?

Bath. They told me the man was dying.

Q. Was that all the story?

Bath. Yes.

Q. Had not you the curiosity to ask how the man came by his death?

Bath. No.

Q. Then upon their coming back and telling you the man was dying, you was satisfied, took your baskets up, went home, and thought it very well?

Bath. I did not think any thing about it:

Q. You thought a fellow creature being murdered was of no consequence; did you know then that he had been pelted to death with bricks.

Bath. I heard so.

Q. Did you hear so at that time?

Bath. Yes.

Q. From whom?

Bath. James Knight and my boy told me so.

Q. Who did they say pelted him to death?

Bath. I don't know.

Q. Where did they say the bricks hit him? did they tell you that he was in the pond?

Bath. My boy said he was out of the pond.

Q. Who told you that he was dead?

Bath. My boy, and a great many others.

Q. I ask you how he told you he came by his death?

Bath. He told me the man that was ponded was dying.

Q. The question I ask you is this, who told you of the manner of his coming by his death?

Bath. My boy, and James Knight .

Q. What did they say was the manner of his coming by his death?

Bath. They said he was pelted.

Q. Did they tell you of any wounds he had?

Bath. No.

Q. Did they tell you he was ducked?

Bath. Yes; they said he was ducked.

Council for the Prisoner. Did either James Knight , or your son, say they either saw him pelted or ducked?

Bath. I did not hear them say either.

Q. Upon your oath, what were the words used by them?

Bath. They said he was pelted to death, and lay dying.

Q. Did either of them say they saw him pelted, or ducked?

Bath. They did not say that.

Q. Did they tell you they did not see him ducked?

Bath. They told me so then, that they did not.

Court. How came they to tell you they did not see him?

Bath. They told me about the other things; we never talked about it after we got home, for James Knight took his money, and went about his business.

Q. from the Jury. Does Knight still work for you?

Bath. No; he worked with me then.

Q. He has not worked for you since?

Bath. He did work a while afterwards, but not long.

Q. Do you still employ him when you want a man?

Bath. No.

Council for the Crown to Cole. Do you know Mr. Pagett?

Cole. Yes; I saw him in Goodman's-fields this morning.

Q. Was that the first time?

Cole. I saw him when he came to that gentleman's (meaning Mr. Woolridge.)

Q. How often had you seen him before?

Cole. I cannot tell.

Q. Do you know what business he is?

Cole. No; no further than when he came to arrest that man one morning.

Q. Don't you know he is a constable?

Cole. I did not know he was.

Q. Did you never meet him in this part of the world were Clark was killed some time ago?

Cole. Never, to my knowledge.

Q. Did you never hold any conversation to him about that, and said he had given an alarm in the neighbourhood, by coming there?

Clark. Never, to my knowledge.

Q. Did not you meet Pagett once, and tell him he put the neighbourhood in a consternation by coming there; that they thought he came for the gardener, Stroud, for he was as much concerned in the murder as any body.

Cole. I saw him once, he came to arrest Winterson: they said the weavers were all out of the windows: I said, Who are you come after? he said, I am come after your great, big, man in the ground; I took it for Stroud, because he is a stout man; I thought he was come to arrest him: I was going up to my work; he called a boy to fetch a pot of purl, and I drank with him; I thought he was coming to arrest Stroud.

Q. For what?

Cole. For debt.

Court. I thought you did not know Pagett was an officer.

Cole. No; I knew he was a bailiff.

William Atkins . I am a gardener.

Q. Do you know Bath the elder, and younger.

Atkins. Yes.

Q. Do you know Knight?

Atkins. Yes; I went a shorter way to the pond than the Baths.

Q. Did you go to the pond yourself?

Atkins. Yes; I did; my maid said they were ducking Clarke; I said, What Clarke? she said, Clarke that hung the cutters. I went there, and saw the man lay upon the ground; I turned about and went away.

Q. In what condition was he when you saw him?

Atkins. A dying.

Q. How long was you out?

Atkins. Not above ten minutes.

Q. Where was he?

Atkins. A lying by the edge of the water, by the sand house; I went to the malt-distillers; a man came in about five minutes afterwards, and said, The man is dead.

Q. Was it possible for them to get to the pond before the man was dead?

Atkins. The man must be out of the water before they came; he was lying upon the ground when I came there, and I came a shorter way than they.

Q. How long have you known Stroud?

Atkins. Five or six years.

Q. What was his behaviour?

Atkins. A very serious, good-natured, humane man.

Cross Examination.

Q. What relation is he to Eastman?

Atkins. I believe Eastman and he married two own sisters.

Q. Have you ever heard him say any thing about this Clarke?

Atkins. I never heard him mention any things.

Prisoner's Council. Do you know whether he ever quitted Mr. Woolridge's service till he was taken up?

Atkins. No.

Court. Why he must have been dead before the Baths could reach him.

Atkins. Yes.

Q. from the Prisoners Council. Can you tell in what posture he lay upon the ground?

Atkins. There were so many people about, I cannot tell whether he lay upon his face, or his back.

David Higgins . I was at the Axe when James Knight and Stroud were together talking about this murder: Watts and Knight and I were together.

Q. How long was that after the murder?

Higgins. It might be two or three days; Stroud seeing us sit there came in and called for a pint of beer; James Knight jumps up and says, G - d d - n my blood, you are the man I was looking for; says Stroud, Looking for me, you fool; what was you looking for me for? Why, said Knight, if you don't give me a pot of beer, I will take you up for murdering the man, and I will swear it. The house was full of people at the time; Stroud said, James I will give you a pot of beer at any time with all my heart, but not upon such an account as that. He drank out of his own pint, and neither of us drank with him. He went out of the house, and Watts with him.

Q. After he was gone, had Knight any conversation with you about this Stroud?

Higgins. No; I left Stroud in the house, and went to my lodgings.

Q. How long did you stay in the house?

Higgins The value of half an hour.

Q. Stroud went away before you?

Higgins. Yes.

Q. He went immediately I suppose?

Higgins. He stay'd and drank his pint of beer.

Q. Are you the man they call Davy?

Higgins. Yes.

Q. Had you any conversation with Knight about the baskets and people he saw?

Higgins. I was comming out of my master's ground; I met my old and young master, and him along with them with the baskets upon their heads. He said, Where are you going? I told him it was so cold I could not stand to work. Immediately we went to the Nag's Head; I told Knight we were going there: he said he would follow us. When he came home, he told us that he saw the man lie dying upon the bank, and that he did not see any body throw at him, but saw him when he was dying.

Q. Did he give you any particular account that he had seen any thing happen, or only a general account?

Higgins. He said he did not see any body throw any thing, but if he knew any body that could swear it, he would take him up; but he could not himself, because he did not go soon enough.

Q. Did he tell you in what condition the deceased was when he came up with young Mr. Bath?

Higgins. He said he lay upon the bank when he came up, and gave a groan.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did you at the Axe tell him that he told you before he saw no body?

Higgins. I kept nunging him all the time to hold his tongue. I did not say any thing.

Court. When was the reward offered?

Higgins. The Saturday night, the twenty-seventh of April, eleven days after the time.

Q. Have you heard him talk about the reward since?

Higgins. In the ground a great many times.

Chambers again.

Q. from the Jury. What passed between Higgins and you upon this affair?

Chambers. The first of it, Davy came to my house; my wife had a shirt to wash for him; he sat down in a chair, and brings up James Knight. I said, I wished I knew where the son of a b - h was, for I had not seen him for seven weeks, and had been two or three days a-looking for him, but could not find him. He said he was at Vauxhall. I said, he told me he knew a man very active in killing Clarke. Davy said, That is Stroud. He wrote down the name himself, and carried it to Mr. Wilmot's.

Higgins. When I went to this man's house, he was talking about Knight. I said, I had left him at work; he said, Where is he, for he wanted him on particular business. I said, Does he owe you any thing? He said, No, he did not want him upon that account. One thing brought up another. I mentioned the words he said about Stroud at the Ax. Chambers said, Did you know Stroud? I said, I did know him. He said, he saw a man throw very much at the pond, in a frock, a very little man. Chambers said, he thought it was Stroud. I told him it was not him, for Stroud was a great man, and cross-eyed. He asked me if I knew him; I said, Yes. He said, Would I tell him where he was; I told him where he was, and then he said Mr. Wilmot had bound him in a forty pound bond to find somebody that had been concerned in the murder, and he must take up somebody, and he would be obliged to me to tell him. I told him I saw nothing of the affair, and could say nothing at all about it.

Council for the Crown. You offered to shew him the man at the pails?

Higgins. He said he did not know the man if he saw him.

Q. You say you told him what Knight had said at the Ax; did you tell him what Knight had said at the Nag's Head?

Higgins. No, I did not say a word about that.

Q. How came you not to say what he had said at the Nag's Head?

Higgins. It did not come into my head. I said, that James Knight could not swear it, because he did not see him, only when he was on the bank: all that he wanted was to find James Knight .

Court. Let me understand you about the conversation you had at the Nag's Head. Are you positive that he told you that he must take up any body, if he could prove it upon him?

Higgins. Yes.

Q. Was that at the Nag's Head?

Higgins. Yes.

Q. And what was that for?

Higgins. Mr. Wilmot offered 10 l. 10 s. and that he said the same night at the Nag's Head.

Court. That was before the reward could be offered.

Higgins. No, it was the next day after the murder was done he said he would take him up for the reward.

Court. For what reward?

Higgins. I am not certain it was the next day.

Q. Was it two days then after the murder?

Higgins. I cannot say.

Q. How many days conversation had you with him about it?

Higgins. He said so every day we were at work.

Q. Did Knight say, every day you was at work, that he would take up Stroud for the reward?

Higgins. Yes, almost every day.

Q. Where was you at work?

Higgins. At Mr. Bath's.

Q. How far is that from Mr. Woolridge's?

Higgins. A good way; there is a field and a workhouse between.

Court. You told me that he would take up any body for the reward; now you say Him, or any body. Did he talk the next day about taking up Stroud?

Higgins. I am not positive in that. As soon as ever the reward was offered in the papers, he said he would do it for the reward.

Q. Who was by at the time of this conversation?

Higgins. Will Watts, and a man that lives at Walthamstow, and a man that works in Mr. Bath's ground now, and me, and Jemmy Knight.

Q. Did Chambers talk to you about offering any money, if you would assist in evidence?

Higgins. He said I should have 30 l. if I would take him up, because he did not know him. I told him I would not be seen in the affair.

Council for the Crown. Did he offer you 30 l. after you had told him you would shew him Stroud?

Higgins. Yes.

Q. Why did he offer 30 l.

Higgins. It may be he was afraid to take him up himself.

Q. Did you understand that he was to take him up himself, with his own hands?

Higgins. I could with an officer.

Q. And don't you think Chambers could with an officer, as well as you?

Higgins. I don't know but he might be afraid of it.

Q. For fear of what?

Higgins. For fear he might be hurt, or something.

Q. So he would give you 30 l. to take up Stroud, after you had shewed him to him?

Higgins. He wanted me to take him up.

Mr. Wilmot again. Upon Tuesday I happened to be at Hicks's Hall all day. When I came home, about eleven o'clock, I received a letter from a gentleman, giving an account of this cruel murder. I enquired of my people where it was committed; I found nobody had been to let them know any thing of it. When I enquired farther, I was told it was within about three hundred yards of my house. I immediately sent for the constable of the parish, and went down to Mr. Lloyd's. a public house, between eleven and twelve, with my servant, the beadle, and the constable of the parish. I ordered the door to be shut; I examined the people in the house; about twenty-four or twenty-five people were in the tap-room drinking; I examined them one by one; I could not find that any of them were guilty of this murder. The next morning I found that they went by the workhouse in my own parish. Some of my officers happened to be there: I sent for Mr. Woolridge, who is here; I begged he would give me an account as he was present; Mr. Woolridge called out to some people, and said, Let us be weavers; give me one of your aprons; I will be a weaver myself. The next day, Thursday, I advertised ten pounds reward myself for apprehending any person concerned in the murder; as to any body being bound over, there was no such thing as being bound over to find any body; Chambers was bound over to give evidence against Campbell; that was a long time after.

Q. from the Jury to Knight. When you returned home that evening, your master discharged you?

Knight. No; I worked there some time afterwards.

Q. Was there any thing of this sort the reason of his discharging you?

Knight. Not at all; I went away unknown to him.

For the Character of Stroud.

James Cook . I live in Covent Garden. I have known Stroud about ten years; he had a stand at my door when he was a master gardener: he was an honest, just man.

Q. Do you mean to say you never heard any reflection on his humanity before?

Cook. Never in my life.

Q. Did you never hear of his being at this bar before?

Cook. Never, to my knowledge.

- Watts.

Q. Do you know a man called Davy?

Watts. Yes.

Q. Do you know Knight?

Watts. Yes.

Q. Do you remember seeing Knight at the Ax, a public house.

Watts. Yes.

Q. When was that?

Watts. I cannot positively tell the day.

Q. How long was it after Clarke was killed?

Watts. Sometime afterwards; Stroud was there; Knight laid his hand upon the table, and swore he would take him up for the king's reward: there were very few words passed; I was there the whole time; I went out with Stroud.

Q. Did you go in with Stroud?

Watts. No; he came in after me; Knight and I went in togther; when Stroud came in Knight struck his hands on the table, and said he was the man he was looking for to take up and get a reward of one hundred pounds; after that, says he to Stroud, Will you lend me a shilling? Stroud said, No; then he said, if he did not give him a pot of beer, he would take him up.

Q. Can you recollect the time?

Watts. No.

- Dawson. I keep the Angel in the city road. I have known Stroud about two years; he worked for me about two years; his general character is very good; he is as humane a man as any I know in the world.

William Townsend . I live in Little Pater-noster row, Spitalfields. I have known Stroud eight or ten years; he dealt with me, and his mother before him; he was always a hard working, honest man.

Q. Did he always behave well?

Townsend. Yes.

Q. A man of humanity.

Townsend. I never knew any thing to the contrary, for the time I have known him.

John Woolridge . Stroud has worked for me, and in my neighbourhood, upwards of five years, three of which have been for me; I never saw any impeachment of his humanity, or saw him quarrel, or given to quarrel, in my life.

Nicholas Deadrow . I have known Stroud seventeen years, he is a very hard working, honest man.

Q. A quiet man?

Deadrow. As far as I know.

Council for the Crown. We beg to call Pagett to discredit Cole's evidence.

John Pagett .

Q. You know Cole?

Pagett. Yes.

Q. You heard him give his evidence?

Pagett. I did not; I was not in court when he gave his evidence; I know what he declared to me.

Q. What have you heard relative to Stroud?

Pagett. I am an officer; I had a writ against Winterson, that stands there, I think that is his name; I went in order to arrest him in Mr. Woolridge's ground, about five weeks ago, some time after the murder: the man was in the ground; he bid me defiance: there was eight or nine of them together; and they bid me defiance; I was obliged to retreat, for fear the plaintiff should fix me with the debt, if I made a caption, and he got away. I got up about two o'clock the next morning; he heard of my being there, and got away then: I waited then till seven in the morning: at six o'clock I fell in company with Cole; I said, It is very cold, will you have any purl? I will treat you with a pot: he enquired into my business, and said, We never thought you came after Mr. Winterson, but after Stroud; then I began to enquire what they should think I wanted Stroud for; said he, the street was all of an uproar when you came down yesterday; I knew it was in arms; a good many knowed me, says I; what, is it about Stroud that he is wanted upon? Why, says he, they thought you was come to take him about Clarke's murder; Why, says I, was he there? Yes, says he, he was there, and more in it than any weaver that was there.

Q. Are you sure he made use of that expression?

Pagett. Yes; I am upon my oath; I told Mr. Woolridge of it: here is another gardener here works in the ground with the same man; I asked him his name; he would not tell me.

Q. What is his name now, Sir?

Pagett. John Bailey .

Q. What have you to say about him?

Pagett. I went in the morning betimes, about five o'clock, I cannot recollect, it was on Friday morning after the murder, the same morning I had the conversation with Cole: I went into the ground, and waited at Mr. Woolridge's, expecting Winterson would come; this man fell into discourse, and said, What do you want; are you come to rob the ground? I said, No; to do my duty; I said, I will do that; he said, You will get your head cut open presently: I said, Very well; I wish I could see the man that should do it; says he, He is a resolute man you are after; he said, We did not think you had come to arrest Winterson, for he has not lived this way a great while; we thought you had come after my fellow servant; I said,

What has your fellow servant done? he said, I suppose you have heard talk something of that affair of the pond, said he; I was there at the time, and there is a very infamous fellow that is in our ground, and he has a right to be taken up; and if any body will give evidence, I will appear against him.

Q. But named no name?

Pagett. I was not so particular as to ask him about the name; I told Mr. Woolridge of it on Saturday morning.

Cross Examination

Q. Did Cole ever tell you that he was at the pond?

Pagett. I don't remember that he did.

Q. Then how could he tell you whether he was guilty or not?

Pagett. I can only swear to the man's words.

Q. He never told you he was there?

Pagett. I will not say as to that.

Q. Are you not to have a share of the reward?

Pagett. Well, what I have I shall keep.

Q. to Cole. Is this story true or false?

Cole. It is false as God is true.

For Campbell.

John Homewood . I live in Wood-street, close to Bethnall Green church.

Q. Do you know Campbell?

Homewood. Yes.

Q. Do you remember the day Clarke was killed?

Homewood. Yes.

Q. Did you see Campbell that day?

Homewood. Yes; about five o'clock.

Q. How was he dress'd?

Homewood. He had on a sailor's frock.

Q. You had not seen him before that day?

Homewood. No.

Q. How long was it before you saw him afterwards?

Homewood. I drank part of a pint of twopenny, and then went away.

John Holley . I live in Pelham street, Mile-end. The day Clarke was killed I met Campbell about three or a little after, as I came out of my master's warehouse. I asked him if he had got any work; he told me no, nor did he intend to look any further, for he was determined to go to sea. I was in his company five minutes; I parted with him at the corner of Booth street.

Q. How far is that from where the pond is?

Holley. A quarter of a mile.

John Thompson . I lodge at the Hare, the corner of Hare street: I was drinking in the house; the soldier, Robert Baldwin , was drinking there at the same time.

Q. What time of day was it?

Thompson. Three o'clock, the day Clarke was killed: he went out of the house with the rest of the company; he staid out about three quarters of an hour, then he came back again, and did not go out till seven minutes after five.

Q. Do you know the time he went out first?

Thompson. Exactly at three o'clock; he came in again at forty-five or fifty minutes.

Q. Did he go out after the news was brought in of Clarke's death?

Thompson. Yes, that was the second time of his going out; he had been out before; he went out at three o'clock, the second time was seven minutes past five; I know that, because he offered to lay me a gallon of beer that they would leave Clarke in the pond all night.

Cross Examination.

Q. So he went out in order to see after the pond?

Thompson. Yes.

Q. What was the wager?

Thompson A pot of beer, or half a gallon of beer, that they kept him in the pond all night.

Q. What did you look at the clock for?

Thompson. They said he had been in two hours.

Elizabeth Bonney . I live at the corner of Hare-street, facing the Coach and Horses. I don't know Campbell; I saw him that day he went to Sir John Fielding 's, but never before.

Q. What do you know about this affair?

Bonney. Nothing, only about Baldwin's goods being appraised.

Sarah Stock . I was in the field when Clarke was killed. I went out; I was not out above a quarter of an hour. I never saw Baldwin in the fields till after Clarke was taken out of the water. Clarke was at the edge of the pond then; a little time after that, somebody drew him out of the water. Mr. Baldwin came past me, and said, How does it go? Why, says I, he is not dead yet. Says he, I will go and have a look at him. He has declared to other people -

Q. Has he to you declared any thing?

Stock. He said in my room, he would do any thing rather than work, for he was sick of it: this was before the accident happened. There was like to be a war, and he said he would turn kidnapper.

Elizabeth Woodward . I know Baldwin has declared he would turn any thing for money, before this affair happened. He did declare last summer, that if press warrants took place, he would turn kidnapper but that he would get a living.

Q. Did you hear that yourself?

Woodward. Yes.

Joseph Driver . I know Campbell very well.

Q. How long have you known him?

Driver. For eight years.

Q. What is his general character?

Driver. I never heard any thing amiss of him.

Q. Is he an industrious man?

Driver. He kept his family well.

Q. And he was well believed was he?

Driver. Yes.

Here the evidence was closed on both sides, and the judge summed it up to the jury, after which Campbell asked leave to call some more witnesses.

As their names had not been inserted in the list of witnesses given on both sides, at the beginning of the trial, when the witnesses were taken out of court in order to be examined separately, the council for the crown had a right to object to their examination; but they generously declared that they had no objection to his calling whatever witnesses he thought proper, though their names had not been before given into court.

Upon which Campbell called.

William Westman .

*** The remarkable circumstance of Stroud's declaring his innocence of the murder of Clarke, to his last moments, has occasioned several letters to the Publisher hereof, desiring the trial may be printed without any abridgement, that the public may be able to form a proper judgment; on which account he has given it at large; so that it is hoped our Readers will not be offended that our compliance with their request has rendered it impossible to include the whole Proceedings of this very long Sessions in less than five parts.

The last Part will be published in a few Days.

Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd July 1771
Reference Numbert17710703-59

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THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON; And also the Gaol-Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX; HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 3d, Thursday the 4th, Friday the 5th, Saturday the 6th, Monday the 8th, Tuesday the 9th, Wednesday the 10th, and Thursday the 11th of July, 1771.

In the Eleventh Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. Being the Sixth SESSION in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honourable BRASS CROSBY, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.



Sold by T. EVANS, No. 54, in PATER-NOSTER ROW.

[Price Six-pence.]


King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery, held for the City of LONDON, &c.

[Conclusion of the Trial of Stroud, Campbell, and Horsford.]

WILLIAM Westman . I am a journeyman weaver.

Q. How long have you known Campbell?

Westman. Three or four years; I never heard but that he was a very quiet, peaceable man.

Q. He bears a good character?

Westman. Yes.

William Hilbery . I am a journeyman weaver. I have known him about three months.

Q. What is his general character?

Hilbery. I never heard any thing but that he was an honest man.

Q. Was he a peaceable man?

Hilbery. Yes; a very peaceable man.

Richard Green. I live in Bethnal-green.

Q. What business are you?

Green. I am a weaver.

Q. How long have you known Campbell?

Green. Twenty-two years.

Q. What character does he bear?

Green. He is a very honest, industrious man; he always behaved well.

James May . I am a weaver.

Q. Do you know Campbell?

May. Yes.

Q. How long have you known him?

May. I have known him nine or ten years.

Q. What is his general character?

May. I never heard any thing of him but what was just and honest; he is a peaceable, quiet man.

Both guilty , Death .

See Stroud tried in December Sessions, 1750, No. 75, in Mr. Alderman Cockayne's Mayoralty, for the murder of Richard Chamberlain . - Probably as few of our readers are possessed of the trial, we have taken the liberty to give the following abstract of it.

" William Barnwell , the first witness, deposed,

"that he lodged in the house of the

"deceased Richard Chamberlain , in Kingsland

"Road; that on the first of December,

"about nine at night, the deceased and he

"sat down to supper together; that the deceased

"appeared to be disguised with liquor;

"that words arose between the deceased and

"his wife, but he did not know the occasion;

"that the deceased threw a candlestick at her;

"that he then got up in a violent passion, and

" knocked her down, and then knocked her

"daughter down; that Stroud came in at

"that time, and endeavoured to prevent the

"deceased beating his wife; that the deceased

"struck him several blows with his fist, and

"tore his coat; that Mr. Fishook, who is

"brother to the deceased's wife, and lived

"next door to him, came in, and struck the

"deceased upon the eye, and then went

"home; that the deceased stripped, and went

"to Fishook's house to fight him; that

"Fishook's wife desired the deceased not to

"Strike her husband, as he had already a

"wound upon his head, that he had received

"two or three days before; that then Stroud

"came in and said, Dick, you have hit me

"several blows, now I have a great mind to

"hit you one; that he then struck the deceased

"upon the breast two or three times, with

"his fist; upon which the deceased fell, and

"never spoke more.

" Martha Harris deposed, that she was up

"stairs at Fishook's; that the heard a scuffle

"below, and heard Fishook did the deceased

"get away; that she went and stood upon the

"stairs, and saw Stroud come; in and swing

"the deceased out of Fishook's arms, and

"said, If you can't manage him, I can; that

"he clapped him up against the closet door,

"and going to strike him, the deceased ran

"his head into Stroud's bosom; that Stroud

"gave him one blow, and he fell down


" Mary Chamberlain , widow to the deceased,

"confirmed the above witnesses, and

"said, that she did not see, either the prisoner,

"or her husband, give any blow; and

"that she believed there was no malice between

"them, or any design for mischief.

" Mary Wake , Elizabeth Millet , and Hannah

"Perry, deposed, that Stroud interposed

"in order to make peace, but neither of them

"saw any blows given.

"Mr. Simson, the surgeon, deposed, that

"upon examining the body of the deceased,

"he observed several bruises on his head and

"face, but nothing of consequence; that he

"examined the nober parts of the body, but

"could not find any bruise or contusion that

"could be the cause of his death, said that it

"must be something internal, and that the

"blood might, by his receiving a blow on the

"stomach, be driven into the brain, and

"cause an apoplexy; but that it was impossible

"to be certain about it.

"The prisoner in his defence said, that he

"went to prevent the deceased's beating his

"wife; that the deceased struck him several

"times, and tore the cuff of his coat almost

"off; that Fishook laid the deceased upon the

"table, and then he, Stroud, fetched a pot

"of beer, and they drank together; that he

"then went to Fishook's, but hearing the

"deceased make a notice, he returned; that

"the deceased struck him, and in that scuffle

"he did strike the deceased, but there was

"no malice; that they had often worked

"and drank together.

"The jury brought in their verdict guilty

"of manslaughter, and he was branded in the


Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd July 1771
Reference Numbert17710703-59

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ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON; And also the Gaol-Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX; HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 3d, Thursday the 4th, Friday the 5th, Saturday the 6th, Monday the 8th, Tuesday the 9th, Wednesday the 10th, and Thursday the 11th of July, 1771.

In the Eleventh Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. Being the Sixth SESSION in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honourable BRASS CROSBY, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.



Sold by T. EVANS, No. 54, in PATER-NOSTER ROW.

[Price Six-pence.]


King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery, held for the City of LONDON, &c.

Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd July 1771
Reference Numbert17710703-59

Related Material

ActionsCite this text | Print-friendly version | Report an error

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON; And also the Gaol-Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX; HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 3d, Thursday the 4th, Friday the 5th, Saturday the 6th, Monday the 8th, Tuesday the 9th, Wednesday the 10th, and Thursday the 11th of July, 1771.

In the Eleventh Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. Being the Sixth SESSION in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honourable BRASS CROSBY, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.



Sold by T. EVANS, No. 54, in PATER-NOSTER ROW.

[Price Six-pence.]


King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery, held for the City of LONDON, &c.

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