Stephen Macdaniel, John Berry, Mary Jones.
3rd June 1756
Reference Numbert17560603-16
VerdictGuilty
SentenceDeath > respited

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256, 257, 258. (M.) Stephen Macdaniel , John Berry , and Mary Jones , widow were indicted for the wilful murder of Joshua Kidden , in maliciously causing him to be unjustly apprehended, falsely accused, tried, convicted, and executed, well knowing him to be innocent of the fact laid: to his charge, with an intent to share, to themselves the reward, &c. Feb. 4. 1754 . *

The witnesses on and side were ordered out of court, and called by one at a time.

John Palmer . I live at Newington Green. I know Berry, and Thomas Blee the evidence; I can't say I know, Macdaniel. I think I have seen the woman at the bar once before.

Q. When was that?

Palmer. On the 6th of January 1754, I went to buy an uncle II Woolar, and on the 7th I came home. In Kingstand road about seven at night I heard a little noise; I had a brother of mine with me, to whom I said, stand still and listen. We did, and I heard a man say, don't haul me, don't pull me. I found it was over the way at Mr. Adams's at the Swan. I said to my brother I'll go over and see what is the matter. We went, and I call'd for half a quartern of brandy; I saw two men in the house, and I ask'd what was the matter. They said they had taken up a man for a robbery committed at Tottenham. Seeing the man, I ask'd him what his name was, he said Joshua Kidden ; then I ask'd him if he had any friends to speak for him, he said he had a fat her lived at Islington; I ask'd him what business his father was, he said a watchmaker; I ask'd him if he knew any body else at Islington, he mentioned three or four people whom I knew very well; I ask'd him if his mother was dead, he said she was; I ask'd him if he knew this and the other person; what he told me I knew to be truth. After that one of the two men, which I can't say, said gentlewoman will be here presently.

Q. Did he call her by any name ?

Palmer. No, he did not. He said she would tell whether he was the man that robbed her or not. When she came, which was at about four or five minutes, she look'd him full in her face (to the best of my knowledge the woman at the bar is the same person ) and said to him, you are the man that put he knife to my throat, and said, d - n our blood you bitch, if you don't deliver your money I'll cut your throat. Then the poor unhappy men put up his hands and said I never wrong'd man, woman, or child, it never was in my thoughts in my life, and cried sadly. Then the two men d in a very great hurry to get him before the justice. My brother pull'd me to come out o f the house, are when; I came to the door, he said I don't men, I don't like the looks of them. Berry to be a lame man, he seem'd to limp.

Q. Did you ever see the man they accused after that time?

Palmer. No, I never did.

Q. from Berry. Whether she charged him with taking the money from her ?

Palmer. That I can't say. She said he put a knife to her throat to rob her.

Q. What is your brother's name ?

Palmer. His name is Henry.

Q. from Berry. Did we search him?

Palmer. I did not see him searched

Council for the Prisoners Were Berry and the other man both in the house with the man before the woman came in ?

Palmer. They were.

Q. How did she come then?

Palmer. She came in a chaise besiesit, there was a chaise at the door when I went out

Henry Palmer . I was with my brother on the 7th of January. In the evening, coming from Woolwich, just before we came to the Swan, we heard a little noise upon the road, and presently. I heard a man say, Don't pull me, don't haul me, I will go along with you. Just as we came to the Swan door they had got him in; my brother was for going in, but I was not. There were two men in the house with the poor man, who said he had rob'd a woman in a chaise near Tottenham. The poor creature said he never rob'd any body in his life. My brother asked him if he had any friends, and he said he had a father at Islington. My brother said, I know Mr. Kidden, if he is your father. He then asked him if his mother was dead, and he said she was. He also asked him if he knew the man at the Thatch'd house; he said he did, and named his name. The two men said, a gentlewoman will be here, who will tell you whether you are the man that rob'd her or not. Presently the woman came in. and said, that is the man that clap'd the knife to my breast and said, '' D - n your blood, you '' bitch, if you don't deliver your money I'll cut '' your throat.'' The poor creature he'd up his hands and said; Fie, Madam, I never wrong'd man, woman or child in my life. I pull'd my brother by the coat, and said, you shall not stay here any longer, I don't like the looks of the men. So we paid for our brandy, and away we came. It was dark, and I did not take such particular notice as to be sure that the woman at the bar is the same woman, but I believe it to be her. I believe the two men at the bar are the same I saw there; one of them was lame, yet limp'd about the house very briskly.

Q. Which do you take that lame man to be?

Palmer. I take that to be Berry. Both the men were better dress'd than they are now, I think they had both horsemens coats on.

Q. Did you hear either of their names mention'd in that house?

Palmer. No, I did not. The poor creature they accused let the tears run down his face, and said that such a thing was never in his thoughts.

Mary Adams . My husband keeps the Swan in Kingstand road. I can't say I know any of the prisoners at the bar.

Q. Do you remember two men coming with a man to your house on the seventh of January, 1754 ?

M. Adams. I do, there was a woman with them; they charged a man with a robbery.

Q. What was the man's name?

M. Adams. His name was Joshua Kidden .

Q. Who charged him with a robbery?

M. Adams. Mrs. Jones did.

Q. Did they call her Mrs. Jones then?

M. Adams. Yes, they did. She said, as I understood, that the man held a knife to her thro' and said if she stir'd he would cut her throat. I asked him how he could go to do such a thing; I he never did, and cried.

Q. Did they charge him with doing it denied it?

M. Adams. Yes, they did.

Q. Who took her from your house chaise ?

M. Adams. The two men and she went before the justice with the poor man.

Q. Who was at your house at the time?

M. Adams. John Palmer was, and his brother too.

Q. Can you or can you not say this woman at the bar was the person?

M. Adams. I do think she was. I asked her how she came to be no more frighten'd, and said, if it had been my case I should have been frighted out of my wits.

Q. Did she seem to be frighted?

M. Adams. She did not seem at our house to be frighted at all.

James Warriner . I am clerk to justice Withers.

Q. What happen'd on the 7th of January, 1754, about a person brought before your master?

Warriner. On Monday the 7th of January, 1754, the two men at the bar, whom I have known a great many years, came with a woman in the name of Mary Jones , but I can't say I know the woman; it was about 7 o'clock, when they brought Joshua Kidden, and told the justice he had rob'd the woman on the highway. I said to Macdaniel, It is a very surprising thing a robbery should be committed at that time and place. He said, he was not at the robbery. I asked him how he came to take this man. He said, I was doing business for a very good client of mine at Newington at the time (he was then a marshal's court officer ) the poor unhappy man cried, and told this story; That he was hired to go and take some goods away at Tottenham, by one Blee, who belong'd to a gentleman under misfortunes, and was to have a crown or three half crowns for his trouble; that Blee had taken him to Tottenham, and amused him all day, and that he told him it would not be done till the evening, and when the evening came he said, Now I'll step over, and see if the gentleman is ready to have his goods convey'd away; he came back, and said somebody was watching him, and the goods were

not to be removed till the next evening; that they drank a mug of beer at Tottenham, then came away towards London, and overtook Mary Jones ; that he bid him walk on, which he did, but he presently came after him and said, I have got a guinea and half-a crown, and offer'd him part of it; he said he would not take any of it for the world; then the other got over a gate, and left this poor man alone; that accidentally there was this Macdaniel and Berry, who took hold of him, and brought him to the house.

Q. What did they say by way of answer to this relation?

Warriner. The woman charged him with assault ing her in company with a person unknown, and robbing her on the highway.

Q. Did Kidden name Blee in their hearing ?

Warriner. Yes, he did.

Q. Did they insist upon his, being guilty of the robbery?

Warriner. In general they did insist upon it, and the woman swore it absolutely. The poor fellow cried terribly, talk'd much of his innocency, and protested to it all along.

Q. Was you there all the while?

Warriner. I was.

Q. Did he never own himself guilty?

Warriner. He never did.

Q. Who were bound over to prosecute?

Warriner. Mary Jones , of Long Acre, in the parish of St. Martin in the Fields, broker, d the prisoner John Berry .

Cross examination.

Q. Are you certain he said he had been employed to move household goods?

Warriner. He often said so.

Council for the Crown. Did any thing happen, to shew that Berry and the woman were acquainted together ?

Warriner. As to Berry and the woman they seem'd to be old acquaintance. When I took her name down, I said what is your name, she said Mary Jones; said I, where do you live; said Macdaniel I can tell you that, I have known her many years, I knew her in her husband's time; and she said Macdaniel knows where I live as well as I do myself; and I took it down from his mouth.

Council for the Crown. As Blee was often mentioned, did any of them say they knew such a man?

Warriner. They neither of them said any thing about him.

Q. from Berry. Do you remember I ask'd him where he lodged, Did he not answer and say in Black-boy Alley?

Warriner. I don't remember he said so.

Council for the Prisoner. Did you take down all that put ?

Warriner. No, I wrote the commitment. I said after he was committed the poor fellow was brought only for a sacrifice; I have said it many a time.

Council for the Crown. Why was you not here at his trial ?

Warriner. His father did propose to subpoena me, but never did.

Council for the prisoner. Was the information of Mary Jones and Berry taken in writing?

Warriner. No, there was none taken, but it was so particular I could not but remember it.

Council for the Prisoner. Do you remember whether either of them said any thing as to Blee when he was named ?

Warriner. Berry and Macdaniel said they knew nothing at all of the man.

Council for the Crown. Did the woman swear positively that Kidden robbed her?

Warriner. She did.

Q. from Macdaniel. Did I say any other than this, that I knew she was a broker in Brokers Alley ? for I kept a publick house just by the place once.

Warriner. Yes, he said as I mentioned before.

Thomas Cooper . I was headborough at the time. I had the unhappy Kidden in my custody, in January, I believe the 7th, 1754 I was charged with him by the prisoners, and carried him before Esq; Withers.

Q. What was the charge upon him?

Cooper. It was for robbing Mary Jones , somewhere near the Seven sisters.

Q. Do you know them all now?

Cooper. I know them all three very well.

Q. What did Kidden say?

Cooper. He said he never committed a robbery in his life, nor never wrong'd man, woman or child in his life. He cried almost all the way he went along to the prison, and spoke very sorrowful.

Q. Was any mention made of one Blee?

Cooper. Yes, Kidden said he was along with him that day, and what he had been about, and that he could find him at the Castle, near Chick Lane. After the committment was made, I charged Macdaniel and Berry to assist me to carry Kidden to prison. I said to them, it will be the best way to take Kidden round by Click-Lane, he knowing

Blee, and secure him. Berry said he was very lame, and could not go, so he went home, and Macdaniel along with me. He opposed going to see for Blee first, and said, let us first go and secure the prisoner in the goal, for he thought he was a desperate sort of a man, and he was afraid of a rescue; so we went to New-Prison. There I told the keeper of one Blee, and where he used, and desired he'd go with us to take him; so he and Macdaniel went with me I told the people of the house I was informed a man we wanted used there constantly. They would not let us go up stairs.

Q. Was you present after the conviction of Kidden, when the reward was divided ?

Cooper. I was. The money was divided at the Gentleman and Porter in Newgate-Street.

Q. from Berry. What money had you?

Cooper. I had 4 l. 10 s.

Q. from Berry. Who took the rest?

Cooper. You took most of the money; there was you and Mrs. Jones there.

Cross examination.

Q. What reason was given at the Castle why you should not go up stairs?

Cooper. The woman told me there was a club up stairs.

Q. Who proposed to go up stairs ?

Cooper. Macdaniel did, or else he said he'd have their licence taken away.

Q. Did Kidden describe Blee to you?

Cooper. He said we might find him by his dress, that he had got a blue apron on like a gardener, a blue coat, and a carroty beard.

Macdaniel. If he had mentioned him by the name he went by I should have known him very well, he always went by the name of My Lord Dockham.

Mr. Withers. The unfortunate Kidden was brought before me, I believe by Mr. Cooper. I can't say any thing to the prisoners. There were two men and a woman, but whether these at the bar are they I can't say.

Q. What was he charged with?

Mr. Withers. He was charged with committing a robbery on the woman that came with the two men, who called herself Mary Jones, near the Seven Sisters in Tottenham Road.

Q. Did she swear that ?

Withers. She absolutely swore it.

Q. Did Berry swear it too ?

Mr. Withers. He did not swear it, but he was bound in recognizance to prosecute; upon that I committed the man.

Q. Did the man own the fact before you?

Mr. Withers. He confessed nothing at all in my hearing.

John Lingley . I know Macdaniel and Berry. I believe I saw the woman at the bar once, but can't swear to her, she was then in another dress.

Q. When was it you saw her?

Lingley. I was going up Chick-Lane on a Monday night in 1754.

Q. What time ?

Lingley. I am not certain.

Q. Was it before or after Christmas?

Lingley. It was after Christmas three weeks or a month. I met with Berry, who spoke to me; I went past him a little way, and he called to me.

Q. What time of the night was it?

Lingley. It was between 9 and 10 o'clock. He said, have you seen any thing of my lord Blee; I said I had not, nor I do not know where he is; he said, Jack, I'll give you a halfpenny worth of gin, if you'll go and see if you can find him at the Castle.

Q. Who keeps the Castle alehouse ?

Lingley. Mr. Jones does. Berry gave me a halfpenny, I went in and call'd for a halfpenny worth of gin, and said to Mr. Jones, is my lord Blee here? he said, go and see if he is backwards; I went and saw him sitting with a pipe in his mouth smoaking, and a pot about half full of beer; I said he was wanted at the door. He asked who wanted him; I said Mr. Berry. He went out to him, and Mr. Berry said with an oath, what do you do here?

Q. Was there any body with him?

Lingley. There was a woman with him, with a red cloak, a black cloak, and a black bonnet on. At first I saw her stand at a distance, but did not know whether she belonged to him. What my lord Blee said to him I can't tell, but they all three went up Saffron-Hill together about that time. I was out of work, and went to Berry's house, where were he and Mrs. Turner, who went by the name of Perry. I had a silk handkerchief, and wanted to sell it to him. He ask'd her what he must give me for it. She said three shillings, so he gave it me. She said I should give him a pot of beer out of it. Berry ask'd me to sit down, after he had sent Blee for the beer, and began to tell me he had been out with a gentlewoman to Tottenham or Edmonton, I can't say which, and coming back again pretty late he got out to make water, just by the Black Bull at Tottenham, that there wa s a young horse in the chaise, and he believed the crupper had touch'd his tail, and he had been lately dock'd; that there came two fellows up, and when he came to the chaise the gentlewoman said she was rob'd. He got up into the chaise,

Macdaniel was along with him, and rode as far as the turnpike, and ask'd if any body was gone along, and they told him one was gone along in a ragged blue coat; that they went on, and just by the Cock in Kingstand Road they got sight of him; that they cry'd stop thief, and Macdaniel jump'd over a place and knock'd the man down that they pursued after.

Q. Did they name his name?

Lingley. No, they did not. He said he did hear it was my lord Blee that was along with him, but he said, d - n him he has not heart enough, and he was in bed in my hay lost at the time.

Q. Was you in Newgate lately, to see if you could find out the woman?

Lingley. I was. I did see a woman, but it was at night, and I could not know her.

Q. Has any body been with you since about not appearing here?

Lingley. Yes, there was a man, but I can't say I should know him again.

Q. from Berry. Did you ever see Blee wear a coat?

Lingley. I have seen him with a blue, and also a red coat on.

Q. from Berry. What day was it I bid you call him out?

Lingley. I believe it was the 7th of January.

Q. from Berry. What business do you follow? I had taken you up twice for robbing on the highway before that time a good while?

Lingley. I follow grinding and polishing.

Berry. He is a common pick pocket now.

Q. from Berry. Did you see me speak to the woman you say you saw me with ?

Lingley. No, but when Blee came out you went all three up Saffron-Hill together.

Q. from Berry. Who is your wife?

Lingley. She that was servant to your wife as you call'd her, but she went by the name of Turner.

Richard Jones . I keep the Castle at the bottom of Saffron-Hill.

Q. Do you know the prisoners at the bar?

Jones. I know Berry and Macdaniel, I don't know the woman.

Q. Did you know Joshua Kidden ?

Jones. On a Wednesday at the latter end of Christmas, about two years ago, a poor ragged sort of a man came to enquire for business, whose name was Joshua Kidden . Blee was at my house, Blee and he drank together, and Blee told him he could help him to a job at Tottenham, and said if he did not like the job he should be paid for his trouble.

Q. Did you hear him say what sort of a job it was ?

Jones. I did, it was to remove some goods. Blee said it was too late to do it then, but on the morrow he'd tell him when it should be done, saying, the gentleman was going to move by night. They met again on the Sunday, when he told him he thought it would be done on the Monday morning. On the Monday morning Blee came again, and ask'd if that man was come that he told of doing a job; presently the poor man came, and after a little time they set out together to do the job. Blee returned again that night and call'd for a pint of beer. We had a club that night. Presently came in Jack Lingley , and call'd Blee out. They went away, and Blee left part of his beer behind him. I stept to the door, and saw Berry and a short woman with him.

Q. How was she dressed?

Jones. I believe in a black bonnet and a red cloak. Berry seem'd to check Blee, and they all three went away up Saffron-Hill together.

Q. Can you tell the day of the month this happened ?

Jones. I cannot, I know it was on a Monday, and the very day after I heard of this robbery being committed. After poor Kidden was tried and condemned, I was going by Newgate one day, and I had the curiosity to go in to see him, when I found it was the very same man that went out of our house with Blee that day. After Berry, Blee and the woman were gone up the hill, in came Macdaniel, the keeper of New Prison, and Mr. Cooper.

Q. How long after?

Jones. It was about 3 or 4 minutes after, 5 was the very outside. Macdaniel used my wife very ill, and insisted on going up stairs, after I said we had none but civil company there.

Q. from Berry. Had the woman any other cloak over the red cloak ?

Jones. No, nothing at all over it as I saw.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did Macdaniel come there as if he wanted to find Blee ?

Jones. He said he came with a warrant to search the house.

Q. Did not Mr. Cooper or any of them tell you who they wanted?

Jones. No.

Council for the Crown. Did Macdaniel know Blee!

Jones. He knew him very well, I have seen them together many scores of times, and Berry and

Blee the same; I live just in their neighbourhood.

Q. Whether your wife or you did not say there was no such person in the house ?

Jones. They never inquired of me after him, by name.

Q. from Berry. Was not Blee at your house several times after this ?

Jones. Yes, I have seen him several times after that; but afterwards, when the affair of Kidden came to be talk'd of, I forewarn'd him my house.

Berry. I took a thief out of this witness's house; there have been ten people taken in his house.

Elizabeth Jones . I am wife to the last witness. We live at the Castle in Field-Lane. I know Macdaniel very well, and have seen Berry go by many times; I know nothing of the woman, but I saw much such a sort of a woman go up the hill with Berry and Blee.

Q. Do you remember seeing Jack Lingley come to your house with a message to Blee?

E. Jones. I do. Blee was at my house, when Lingley came in, and Blee got up directly, and follow'd him out.

Q. Did you hear any words pass?

E. Jones. I believe Lingley said, D - n you, Tom. come along. He went out and crossed the way, and a lusty man in a surtout coat came and clap'd him on the shoulder. I said, poor Tom is arrested. They went away, and presently I look'd after them, when they were laughing and playing with one another; a woman came up to them, and away they went together up Saffron-Hill.

Q. How was she dress'd ?

E. Jones. She had a red cloak and a black bonnet on. I remember that the constable and the keeper of New-Prison came to our house presently after they were gone, and called for some ale and an orange; it was on a Monday, our club night, and my husband was backwards and forwards. They said, have you not a club here; I said, yes; they said, have you not a breeches-maker here from towards the Minorities; I said, no; then Macdaniel said, I will go up and see. I thought he look'd like a batliff, and said he should not.

Q. Which of them asked you for a breeches-maker?

E. Jones. I don't know. I told Macdaniel, if he would give me the name of the person he wanted I would go and call him down. He push'd against me, and insisted on going up. I said I did not like him, and he should not.

Q. Did they name any body ?

E. Jones. No, they did not.

Q. What time was this?

E. Jones. I believed it was near eleven. A young man, about 18 or 19 years of age, my husband's countryman, who had not been three weeks in London, came down stairs last after the other gentlemen of the club. Macdaniel look'd at him and said, what, my gentleman, art thou here at last? The young man said, I know nothing of you. Said Macdaniel, it is not the first time I have had you in hand, don't you remember when I took you up for picking of pockets on Tower-Hill ?

Q. Did not they ask for Blee by name?

E. Jones. No, they did not.

Q. How long did they stay?

E. Jones. They came between nine and ten, and went away before twelve. I can't say the exact time.

Q. Was it after eleven?

E. Jones. Yes, it was.

Cross examination.

Q. Did you know Blee before that time?

E. Jones. I did.

Q. What trade is Blee?

E. Jones. He said he was a breeches-maker.

Q. Where did he say he lived?

E. Jones. He said he lived with Berry, and look'd after his horses.

Q. Did you never hear of his living in the Minories?

E. Jones. No, never.

Ann Watson . I know all the three prisoners; I lived housekeeper to Mr. Berry about Christmas 1733.

Q. Have you ever seen Mary Jones there?

A. Watson. Yes, I have twice.

Q. When did you see her there the first time?

A. Watson. I never saw her there before it was said she was rob'd.

Q. Do you know Blee?

A. Watson. Yes, he used to lie in Berry's hay-loft, and used to be backwards and forwards there.

Q. Did you see Mrs. Jones there at the time the chaise came home?

A. Watson. No, there was a little short man took the horse out of the chaise nam'd Pack; Blee was there and helped to put the horse in the stable afterwards.

Q. Do you know any thing of Blee's ever lodging in the Minories?

A. Watson. No, never.

Q. from Berry. Was not you in the hospital for the pox at the time you mention?

A. Watson. I was not, that was a great while before that time.

Q. from Berry. What time did you go from my house?

A. Watson. I went from his house in the winter; this robbery was talk'd of two years ago. I remember one time Mary Jones was there, and I left her in the house, and the door was lock'd, while I went out with oisters to sell.

Council for the Crown. What Mary Jones do you speak of?

A. Watson. The woman that stands there [pointing to her.]

Q. How was she dress'd?

A. Watson. In a black bonnet and a scarlet cloak.

Q. Was this the day that the chaise came home, as you spake of before?

A. Watson. No, this was after that.

John Stevens . I know Berry and Mary Jones ; I don't know Macdaniel. I was here on the trial of one John Smith , at the December Sessions, 1753. Mr. Berry call'd on me at the Bishop's head in the Old Bailey, and ask'd me to bring a bundle of things into the court here, which he said a friend of his had been rob'd of near Saffron-hill, and a woman had bought the things of a prisoner, whom they were going to prosecute. There was a man that he call'd Eagan, || he went out to fetch the woman that bought the goods from the sign of the George: she came, it was the same woman that is now at the bar. I refused to carry the goods into court, and said, here is your man Blee, send him, Berry said, he is so ragged that I am ashamed to let him carry them into court; and, after the trial as over, I heard Berry say, d - n it, they have acquitted him of the burglary, and found him guilty of felony, and I shall be all this money out of pocket; he also said, I was a fool that I had not taken a horse-stealer at Westminster, and then I should have had a Tyburn ticket (whereas I never have had any thing.)

|| Otherwise Gahagan, one of the four, since dead. See the trial of Christopher Woodland, No. 30. in the Mayoralty of Mr. Alderman Rawlinson.

Q. Was Blee in their company?

J. Stevens. He was in their sight, but not in their company.

Cross examination.

Q. Had Mrs. Jones any concern about the horse-stealer that Berry and you talk'd about?

J. Steven. No, she had not.

Q. Which room was you in?

J. Stevens. We were in the fore room, and the man that kept the house then had but one eye.

Q. Was Mrs. Jones part of your company?

J. Stevens. She was.

Q. Did Blee and Mrs. Jones speak to each other?

J. Stevens. I can't particularly say, that he spoke to her, or she to him.

Council for the Crown. Did you at any time go to Newgate to see Mary Jone ?

J. Stevens. Yes, I did, about a month or five weeks ago, up in an upper room, and I went and laid my hand upon her.

Q. How came you to lay your hand upon her ?

J. Stevens. Because I was bid to shew the woman.

Council for the prisoner. Did any body point her out to you?

J. Stevens. No.

Francis Ornel . I know Macdaniel and Berry. I can't particularly say I know the woman.

Q. Do you know Thomas Blee ?

Ornel. I do. Last January was two years, to the best of my remembrance, the three prisoners and Blee were all in company together. I know it was on a Monday morning, about nine o'clock.

Q. Do you know the day of the month ?

Ornel. I do not.

Q. Where were they?

Ornel. At the Queen's-head, at the end of Hatton-wall.

Q. How was the woman dress'd?

Ornel. She had a black bonnet and a black cloak on.

Q. Did you hear of a robbery committed upon one Mary Jones thereabouts ?

Ornel. No, I know nothing at all about that.

Q. from Berry. What cloaths had I on?

Ornel. I can't say in particular; sometimes he used to have a blue coat, sometimes a witish coat.

Q. How long have you known Berry ?

Ornel. I have known him 3 or 4 years.

Q. from Berry. Where do you live ?

Ornel. I lived then at Hatton-wall. and work'd at a house opposite where Berry liv'd.

The Second Part of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.

Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd June 1756
Reference Numbert17560603-16

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THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commissions of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON, And also the Gaol Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Thursday the 3d, Friday the 4th, and Saturday the 5th of JUNE,

In the Twenty-ninth Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. NUMBER V. PART II. for the YEAR 1756. Being the Fifth SESSIONS in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honble SLINGSBY BETHELL, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.

LONDON:

Printed, and sold by J. ROBINSON, at the Golden-Lion, in Ludgate-Street. 1759

[ Price Four-pence.]

THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE

King's Commissions of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery held for the City of LONDON, &c.

Cross examination.

Q. SUpposing the woman had had a red cloak on over a black one, you must have observ'd it, should you not ?

Ornel. I must, but I saw nothing of a red cloak then.

Mr. Frances produced the bill of indictment which was prefer'd against Joshua Kidden, and found by the grand jury at Hick's-hall, upon which he was tried at the Old-Bailey in January sessions, 1754. Which was read in court.

Then he produced the copy of the record of his conviction upon that indictment. Which was likewise read.

Thomas Gurney . I was in court in the January sessions 1754. and took the minutes of the trial of Joshua Kidden. (I have them in my hand)

Q. Do you know the prisoners at the bar?

Gurney. I do, all of them.

Q. Did you see Mary Jones sworn ?

Gurney. I did. and Berry too.

Q. Are you certain you know the woman at the bar?

Gurney. I am, and believe she has been in this court before the trial of Kidden.

Q. What was the evidence she gave on that trial?

Gurney. After the indictment was read, in which Kidden was charged with robbing her on a guinea, and 4 s. 6 d. in money, she deposed as follows: Last Monday was se'nnight in the morning. I went to Mr. Berry, and ask'd him to go along with me to Edmonton. She was then ask'd where she liv'd? She said, she lived in Broker's-alley, Drury-lane. Then she proceeds; we went in a chaise; we set out about twelve or one at noon from Hatton-garden, and went to Edmonton to the Bell, and staid there some time; being ask'd how long, said, very near three hours, to enquire for a man that I wanted to see; coming from thence we set out between 5 and 6 o'clock. I got out at the Plough at Tottenham, by reason the horse kicked very much, and we had two pints of hot ale and rum. Mr. Berry desired me to walk a little, to see how the horse would go, and I walked I believe about a quarter of a mile; then he called to me and said, the horse goes very well, you may get into the chaise; and as I was going to get into the chaise, two fellows came round me, and said, you shall not go in, we must take what you have; one of them held my arms, and took a great knife out of his pocket.

Q. Did she say a great knife?

Gurney. She did. And said he'd stick me and the fellow in the chaise too, if I spoke a word; and the other took my pocket. She was then ask'd what was in it; she said, there was a guinea, half a crown, 2 shillings, and a trifle more; then they ran away. I stood by a pot, and could not stir for some time. She was then ask'd, how near this was to the chaise? She answered, it was just by the chaise. She is ask'd, why she charged the prisoner? her answer is, he is the man that held the knife to me, and said, You old bitch, if you say a word, I'll run you through and the man too. She is then ask'd, if she saw his face? she answered, I had time enough to see his face. She was then ask'd, if it was light or dark? she said, it was a very fine moon-shine night, it was as light as day. She was ask'd, if she ever had seen the prisoner before? she said, no, never to my knowledge. She then was ask'd to describe his dress; she said, he had a white waistcoat, no coat, and a flannel cap on; and the other man had a blue coat, and a great touch'd hat on. Then she said, Mr. Berry called to a man that was coming by, and desired him to help her into the coach, so she call'd it. I got it, and we then went on to the Cross keys, where we had a glass of rum; and at the turnpike like we were

told, that two men had run through there as fast as they could, and that they had been about there for two or three nights. Mr. Berry pursued as fast as he could to Newington, where he enquired after such men, and the patroles answered, that two men had ran by, and they were running along as fast as they could; they were then in my sight; he desired the people to stop them; one of them jumped over the ditch, and got away, and the prisoner was taken. She was asked where the prisoner was taken; she said, at the farther end of Newington, and we took him to a public-house a little way from the town. She was asked, if he was in the same dress as he had on when she was robbed? she said, he was. She was asked, what the prisoner said for himself? she said, he owned every thing but this, he said he did not take the money, and that another man brought him that way, but he did not know for what. She was asked what she charged him with; she said, with holding me by the arm, and pulling out a knife upon me, and he said, he did. She was asked to mention the words she made use of; she said, did not you pull out a knife upon me? he own'd he did. Upon her cross examination she was asked what was her business at Edmonton; she said, I went there to enquire for a man that owed me money. Then she was asked how long she had been acquainted with Mr. Berry; she said, many years. She was asked if Mr. Berry did not give her that money just before she was robbed; she said, no, he did not. She was asked what time the robbery was committed; she said, betwixt five and six o'clock. She was asked if she was ever robbed before; she said, no, never in her life. She was asked what the prisoner said before the justice; she said, he confessed the same there as he did before. Being asked the justice's name; she said, she did not know, but he lived in Shoreditch. John Berry , the prisoner, was next examined; who said, last Monday was se'nnight Mrs. Jones came to me, and desired me to go with her to Edmonton, to see for a man that owed her about 9 l. We went there to see for the man, and set out from thence I believe about six o'clock; in coming back the buckle of the strap had got through, and the horse fell a kicking up much. I desired her to get out; this was near the Plough at Tottenham, we drank two pints of rum and ale, she, I and another man. I desired her to walk a little till I saw how the horse would go, she walk'd about a quarter of a mile, then I said you may get in now, the horse will go. As she was geting in two men catch'd hold of her, the prisoner was one of them, his garters were tied below knee, and he had a white waistcoat on, if he'll open his coat I believe that is the same waistcoat he has got on now. [I remember poor Kidden did open his coat, and Berry said, that is the very same.] She call'd out to me, when one of them held a knife to her, and said, you old bitch, if you make a noise I'll stick you and the man in the chaise too. They took her away; and one said he'd stick her if I came out. He was asked who held the knife to her; he said, I believe the prisoner held the knife; this was just facing the seven trees called the Seven Sisters: I being lame could not get out of the chaise; they took her money, and ran away as fast as they could. He was asked if he saw them take her money; he said he saw them put a hand to her pocket. He was asked, if he knew she had the money mentioned about her; he said he knew she had that money about her when she came out of the house. I got a man to help her into the chaise, we call'd at the first house on the left hand, and had half a quartern of rum. I drove along and enquired of every body, and at Newington. I called at a house and told them how we had been served, a man came out and went along with me; I ask'd the patrole if they saw two such persons, and at about twenty yards distance I saw them both running. Being asked whereabouts this was, answer'd, it was before we came to Kingsland turnpike, the other man got over a ditch, and the prisoner was taken. I could not get out of the chaise, being lame. We carried him to a house on this side the turnpike, where are some shells up against the wall. I said to him, how could you take the money from this poor woman? he said he did not take the money, but only stood by. We then had him before justice Withers, there he said his name was Joshua Kidden , and that he lived in Black-boy Alley. Being asked how he was dressed; he said he had on two waistcoats and a cap, and he cried very much at first. On his cross examination he was asked how many people he had prosecuted here; he answered, I believe I prosecuted a man about 8 or 10 years ago, he stole horses, and I stop'd him, that is the only case I have been concern'd in as prosecutor in my life. He was then ask'd what was the man's name that took the prisoner; he said it was the officer that went with us to take the man at Edmonton, he is a marshal's court officer. Being ask'd again what the man's name was; he said, his name is Macdaniel. Upon this name coming out with much reluctancy, I began to suspect it was a bad affair; so I took care in the transcribing it for the press to curtail the evidence as little as possible.

Q. What did the prisoner say ?

Gurney. He said he knew nothing of any robbery, and cried exceedingly.

Robert Beals . I keep the turnpike at Stamford-Hill.

Q. Do you remember whether you was at the turnpike on Monday the 7th of January, 1754?

Beals. To the best of my remembrance I was at the turnpike from Sunday night the 6th, to Tuesday night the 8th.

Q. Do you remember any thing of a robbery being committed on the 7th?

Beals. No, I do not at all.

Q. Did you give Berry and Mrs. Jones information that night, that you saw two men run through the turnpike.

Beals. No, I did not. A gentleman and woman came in a chaise, and ask'd me if I had seen any body go by; I said I had seen three or four men go by about a quarter of an hour before.

Q. Who attended the turnpike with you ?

Beals. William Robertson did; when one comes on, the other goes off, there's always one of us there.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did you say, or your partner in your hearing, there had two men ran through as fast as they could, and that they had been lurking about there for two or three nights.

Beals. My partner call'd me, and ask'd me if I had seen two men come that way; I said I had heard of two or three men being seen about the gate, and I wished they were taken.

William Robertson . I am partner to Robert Beals at Stamford-Hill turnpike. I remember I went to demand the toll or ticket of a man and a woman in a chaise, they shewed me the ticket, and told me they had been rob'd near the Seven Sisters by two men. The woman ask'd the man if he had got any halfpence to give the man that led the horse up to the gate, to buy a pint of beer. She having felt, in one pocket and had none, then she felt in the other pocket, and said, Lord bless me, I have got half a crown and some halfpence that I knew nothing of. We discoursed together some time, then I call'd my partner Beals.

Q. Did the man or woman ask you if two men had run through the gate ?

Robertson. I never heard such a word as two men running through.

Cross examination.

Q. Were not there such words mentioned as two men going through ?

Robertson. Not a syllable to my knowledge.

Q. After your partner came was there nothing mentioned in your hearing of that?

Robertson. Nothing as I know of.

Q. Did you hear your partner say there had been two or three men lurking about there two or three nights?

Robertson. I heard there were two or three men lurking about, but I don't remember it was near the gate. My partner said this to me just after they were gone, I did not hear him say so to them.

Q. to Beals. Was this discourse betwixt you and the man in the chaise, or you and your partner?

Beals. It was to Robertson a little before the chaise went off. I said there had been three or four men gone by, and my partner and I talk'd of it afterwards.

Q. to Beals. Are you sure the chaise was not gone off when you said this ?

Beals. To the best of my knowledge it was not.

Q. to Beals. Was not this in consequence of what they said to you?

Beals. It came fresh into my mind after they told me they had been rob'd. Then I said I heard of two or three men being seen in the road, and wish'd they were taken.

Q. to Beals. Do you know the man and woman who they were?

Beals. I don't know any thing of the people.

Q. to Robertson. Do you know who they were ?

Robertson. No, I do not.

Q. Have you not a book to know the time each of you attend at the gate?

Robertson. We have a day book, and we sign the man's name that attends each day.

Q. Whose name was in the book for attending on Monday the 7th ?

Robertson. Mine was.

Richard Gwinnet . I am one of the patrole belonging to Newington road. I can't tell any particular day of the month, but I remember the day this pretence was that Kidden had rob'd a woman in a chaise, that very night I was on the patrole.

Q. Did you see a man and woman in a chaise?

Gwinnet. No, none at all.

Q. Was you asked by any man or woman in a chaise after any men ?

Gwinnet. I saw no chaise, we did hear a man was taken.

Q. Do you know either of the prisoners?

Gwinnet. No. I do not.

Q. Did you tell any body there were two men run along ?

Gwinnet. No, I did not.

Q. How many are there of you in this patrole?

Gwinnet. There are only three of us, and we always go backwards and forwards.

Q. What are their names?

Gwinnet. Richard Man , Henry Smith, and myself.

Richard Man. I am one of the patrole on Newington road, and have been these six years. I remember the talk of a robbery being committed on Mary Jones , I was on the patrole that night.

Q. Was there any complaint made to you of any robbery?

Man. No, none at all, till we saw the people at the Swan, the house they took the poor man into, there I saw the person accused. I saw no chaise till we came there. We did not meet the people in the chaise for we were coming to London and were behind them; when we came to the Swan; we were told there was a highwayman taken, and we went in and saw him.

Q. Where does your patrole go to?

Man. It goes to the Three Crowns at Newington, and back to Shoreditch.

Q. Are there any other patrole upon that road besides you and your two partners?

Man. No, there are not, I am the first that began it.

Henry Smith . I am one of the Newington road patroles. The night that it was said Mary Jones was robbed, I saw a man that was taken at Adams's house, the Swan in Kingsland road, I was on the patrole with my partners.

Q. Had you heard any enquiry made of any suspicious people running away?

Smith. No, I had not, nobody ask'd me any such thing.

Q. Who are your partners ?

Smith. They are here and have been examined, I have no others.

Q. When you had seen a man taken up upon a a robbery if you had seen any such people you should have said so, should you not ?

Smith. We saw none, neither did any body ask us such a question.

Thomas Blee . On the latter end of November, 1753, Berry ask'd me -

Council. Before say nothing but the truth, don't add more guilt to what you have done.

Blee. I nothing but the truth. Berry ask'd me if I would be concern'd in an affair about a robbery and order'd me to go and get one Christopher Woodland , after which, he sent me to Macdaniel's house, in the Buck-lane, Rag-Fair, next door to the Prince Frederick's Head. That was the first time I ever spoke with Macdaniel. His company keeper got up and ask'd me what my business was. I said, I came from Mr. Berry. Then Macdaniel said, let him in. I went in, and he ask'd me if I would drink a dram of gin. I said, I never drank any. He bid me go to a publick house, which one Sergeant keept, at the next door, where I call'd for a pint of purl, and staid 'till Macdaniel. had put his cloaths on. He went with me to Berry's house and we all three talk'd about this affair of Christopher Woodland . There was to be a man procured, a butcher in Rag-Fair, an Irish man, to be the person rob'd upon the highway. I think it was the 29th day of the month. I was to go and buy some oranges to fling at, and go to a fair, and Macdaniel and Berry were to take Woodland, and so we were to have the reward. I took Woodland to the fair, but neither Berry nor the butcher came. I went home, and the next day Berry with an oath said, it will not do, for he never came; you must get something else: and said, there is Eagan, or Gahagan (I don't know which he call'd him at that time) I'll take a house for him on Saffron-Hill, and go to Mary Jones , in Brokers-Alley, and we'll put some goods in the house; accordingly, he took the house, and got of her two-smoothing irons, four pewter plates, two brass candlesticks, two iron candlesticks, and some other things, which were put into, the house, and hung a padlock upon the door, with the staple of the padlock not quite push'd in. I was to bring Woodland by night, and take the padlock off, and we were to take the things, and they were to swear Woodland broke the house open and stole them. I and Woodland, were to take the things to Mrs. Jones's house to sell, which we did, in a bag which I had out of Berry's stable. She gave us one shilling and six pence, and bid us come next morning to a house in Long-Acre, and she'd come to us. We went thither, and then I went to the White-Horse in Drury-Lane, where there came in Macdaniel, who gave a sort of a wink to me to go out of the house. I went out, and there stood Berry at the corner. Said he, make the best of your way, I'll act as constable. They took this Woodland before justice St. Lawrence, who committed him to the gatehouse, and he was tried in December sessions, 1753, for the fact, but was acquitted of the burglary, and found guilty of the felony only. I remember there was one Stephens, whom Berry desired at the Baptist-Head in the Old-Bailey to carry the goods into court on the trial. Stephens said, why can't my lord Blee carry them in? said Berry, because

he is to ragged. Said Stephens, I will not have any concern in it. Then they began to talk about a prosecution of a man, for horse stealing. Berry with a wicked oath said, he had been all that money-out of pocket and said we must have something that will do better. After Gahagan was gone, Berry and I consulted to have a robbery done on the highway. Berry said, Mary Jones had got a very rich son-in-law, a silk mercer, and we need not be afraid of any thing staining her character. The next day he sent me to Macdaniel's house again, who came, and Mary Jones was there. We consulted together and this was concluded upon. I was to get one or two persons to rob upon the highway, to entitle them to get the subscription money by the parish, besides the money given by act of parliament. Mary Jones said, she did not know how to do it. Berry said, it would be twenty pound in her pocket. Soon after that, Joshua Kidden came to the Castle, at the bottom of Saffron Hill, and call'd for half a pint of beer.

Q. What day was this on?

Blee. I believe it was on a Thursday. I said to him, what makes you call for half a pint of beer? I suppose you are dry. Said he, because I have not money enough to call for more. I said, call for a pint and I'll pay for it. He did so, and he and I drank it. He was complaining for want of work, and I told him I believ'd I could help him to a job. He complained he had no money to pay for his lodging. I gave him two pence, and told him to meet me there the next morning, which he did. I went with him up to the Prince-Fredrick's-Head, in Leather-Lane, near Hatton-Garden, and bid him stay till I came back, and said I would go to the gentleman that he was to do the job for; for I told him, that a gentleman that lived at Tottenham wanted to remove some household goods (but there was no job to be done at all) I went to Berry's house, in George-Yard on Saffron-Hill, and left him there. I told Berry I had found the man. He said, my lord, got back to him again, and I'll come and call for a penny worth of purl (this was to have a view of him, to see whether he would do or not.) He came and call'd for the put then went out, and I followed him, with presence to go to see if I could and the gentleman again. I said to Berry, what do you think of him? he said, d - n him, he'll do very well, he is big enough, and said, Tom, do you want any money? I said yes, and he gave me a shilling. Then it was agreed that I should get this Kidden to go and remove the goods (as he thought.) Kidden came to me again at the Castle, according to appointment, on the Monday morning following, the 7th of June.

Q. Did any-body heary on talk to Kidden about moving of household goods?

Berry. I don't know, but Mr. Jones, who keeps the Cattle, heard me tell him of moving some houshold goods, he was very thankful. We went to the Prince-Fredrick's-Head. I lost him there, and said I would go to the gentleman, but I went to the Queen's Head Hatton-Wall, where were Berry, Macdaniel, and Mary Jones then we went to Berry's house. He said, Tom, go and buy a penknife, and gave me six pence. I went into Holbourn and bought one for two pence and gave him the groat I had for change. He took a pair of pincers and broke the point of it off, that Mary Jones might swear to it.

Q. Did he tell you that was the reason of his breaking it?

Blee. Yes, he did. Then he said to me, go to the man again, and call for another pint of beer, and come to me again presently. I went to Kidden, and told him the gentleman that wanted to have his goods moved was not at home, but he would be there in a quarter of an hour. After a little time I went away to Berry's house again, when Berry had got a letter directed on the outside to some gentleman, Esq; at Tottenham, I can't tell the name there were two people saw him give it me. (But there was nothing wrote within side,) Berry gave me also five shillings, and we had salt beef and carrots for break-fast at his house, but Mary Jones eat none. Then they order'd me to get away with the man to Tottenham as fast as I could; accordingly I went to Kidden, and shew'd him my letter, seal'd with a water. Kidden, ask'd me if I had got a knot or a rope. I said we did not want any. I ask'd him if he would eat any breakfast. He said, he did not care if he did, so I bought a pound of pork-steak, and had them dressed at Newington-Green, as we went along. The woman black'd them, and I finding fault she charged two-pence for dressing them, but seeing us poor people she did not take the money. We had there a full pot of beer, and went to Stamford Hill, where we drank again, and from thence to the Plough at Tottenham, where was an elderly grey headed man, and a parcel of sheets hanging round the fire (they having been washing) who did not like our company, and would not draw us any more beer, saying he thought we had had enough. Then we went to a house opposite, and call'd for a pint of beer. We drank that, and I call'd for a pint of half in half. Then I said to Kidden (I then did not know his name) I'll go and see if the gentleman is at home. I went out, and

saw the chaise coming, with Berry and Mrs. Jones in it. I step'd up to the chaise, and said, Sir, your horse has got a stone in his foot, so he stop'd. Berry said, make haste back, we'll go to the Plough. I went back to Kidden, and call'd for another pint of half in half. The landlord drank along with me. Macdaniel came in and call'd for a two-penny glass of brandy, which the landlord's daughter or maid serv'd in a large glass. (I should know her again.) He went out, and after that I went to him. He said, I'll come and give you private notice when the chaise goes out. He came in again in the evening, and said make haste, for the chaise is going, (but not in Kidden's hearing.) I paid for the liquor, and ask'd Kidden if he would have a dram. He said no. I told him the goods were not to be removed to day, I am to meet the gentleman at the Fox, and he should be paid. We walked on, and I saw Mary Jones , and amongst a parcel of trees Macdaniel near the wall. About forty yards before we came to the Seven-Sisters, what they call a robbery was done, but there was no robbery at all. I had said to Kidden, walk on, which he did. I said to Mrs. Jones, are you bound to London? She had the things in her hand ready, and gave me half a crown, a pen-knife, and a halfpenny.

Q. Where was Kidden?

Blee. He then was beyond the Seven Sisters. Then I went on, and when I came up to Kidden he ask'd me what I had been doing; I said I had pick'd that old devil's pocket of half a crown. He was very much frightned, and ask'd me how I could do such a wicked thing? I said come along, and ask'd him if he would drink; he said, no, he would not. We went on to the Bird Cage at Stamford-Hill, where we had a pint of beer. It was a very bright moonlight night, I could see to pick up a pin, and there was I believe at the time twenty people passing and repassing. We went on towards Newington, and he wanted to go cross the fields towards Islington as we came, but I was directed by Macdaniel and Berry to keep the road to Kingsland, the house appointed for them to come and take him being the Fox alehouse. When we had got on the other side of the Cock at Kingsland, I heard the chaise coming along, and saw Macdaniel with a stick in his hand. I bid Kidden walk on, and jump'd into the ditch; Macdaniel walk'd by me as fast as ever he could and seiz'd him. I jump'd over a gate into a cowlare. After that I saw Berry jump out of the chaise and seize him, Mary Jones was then in the chaise. Then I went cross the fields to a house called the London Prentice, where Berry ordered me to go and stay for the chaise coming, and take it home; I staid there some time, but no chaise comeing, I went to Berry's house, where I saw the chaise stand in the yard. I said to the maid, I'll go up to Mr. Smith and desire him to put the chaise in; and for fear somebody should steal the seat out of it, I took it out and put it in the house. After that I went to the Castle on Saffron-Hill, and called for a pint of beer. I believe I had drank about half of it, when John Lingley came in and ask'd if my lord Blee was there; somebody told him I was backwards in the kitchen. He came and told me there was one wanted me at the door. I went to the door, and there was Berry and Mary Jones ; Berry said, you son of a bitch what do you do here, there's Macdaniel and the constable coming to take you, and I suppose they'll bring Pentelow the keeper along with them. I left my beer and went along with them up to Hatton-Garden, where Mary Jones and we parted, and Berry and I went and drank together, and then went home to his house. I lay in his hay lost at that time. He said to me the next morning, Tom, don't be afraid, nobody will have a suspicion of Mary Jones , she is a woman that has such good friends; we'll keep you out of the way till the man is hang'd, and then d - n him, he can tell no tales.

Q. Did any body come to take you ?

Blee. There came Watts and Bath (the last is since dead) after me. After that I went by Berry's direction and took lodgings in the Mint, and told the people I was afraid of being arrested.

Q. How was Mary Jones dressed?

Blee. She was in a black bonnet, and a black silk cloak, and had something tied up in a handkerchief when she went out, and when she came home she had a red cloak over a black one.

Council. Did Kidden commit any robbery ?

Blee. No, he did not, no more than I do upon you now; he went on purpose to get a job, to earn something by hard labour.

Q. Can you tell what money was paid, as the reward for taking this man?

Blee. I can't tell what money was paid. Mr. Gardner paid the money at the Salutation tavern just through Newgate, at the rate of 40 l. only the poundage was deducted; they gave me about 6 l. out of the money. Macdaniel and I went to Tottenham. He, Berry, and Mrs. Jones, always told me they did not receive the money there. They never gave me a halfpenny of that, but Macdaniel's wife told me they did receive 20 l. at the White Hart.

Q. When did you make a discovery of this affair ?

Blee. I made a discovery of this before justice Bell at Greenwich, when I was first taken up by

Mr. Cox, the high constable of Deptford, and Mr. Warrin; I told them the same I do now, and the other account about Ellis and Kelly.

Cross examination.

Q. When did you first know Macdaniel ?

Blee. Not before November, 1753.

Council. You would have it be believed that you went to a man, quite a stranger to you, to draw him into a robbery for the sake of the reward.

Blee. Berry sent me.

Q. When did you first know Mrs. Jones?

Blee. Never till Woodland's affair, in December 1753, when this affair was concluded upon, we agreed that she should be the prosecutrix, and Berry and Macdaniel thief-takers.

Q. Is she a very weak woman ?

Blee. I think she is a woman of very great understanding. I don't think this was the first time, because she prosecuted Woodland. I was afraid of the prisoners, and did not know how to get out of the scrape, they always used to be threatning of me, and I was afraid they would hang me.

Q. What were the signs you went to at Tottenham ?

Blee. We went from the Bell to the Plough.

Q. How far was Kidden before you when you spoke to Mrs. Jones ?

Blee. I believe about forty yards, I can't say to a yard.

Q. What did you say to Kidden when you gave him the half crown ?

Blee. I said, give me the shilling that you have got, and I'll buy some steaks with it, for that my pockets were bad.

Q. Had you any reason at the time you told him you had pick'd a pocket, but to think he would have brought you to justice for it?

Blee. He was very much frightned, and wanted to get away.

Q. Had you never any talk with him about committing a robbery ?

Blee. No, I never had.

Q. Could Kidden hear what Mrs. Jones said ?

Blee. No, he could not. She had got the money ready in her hand.

Q. What was your reason to ask her if she was bound to London ?

Blee. There were people passing and repassing at the time.

Q. Did any body see her give you the money ?

Blee. I don't know that any body did.

Q. Where was this consultation held amongst you all?

Q. At Berry's house, the day that I went to fetch Macdaniel.

Q. Was it agreed upon that she should give you the money?

Blee. It was, by all four of us.

Q. Who was Berry's servant at that time?

Blee. Her name was Ann Watson , they used to call her little Nan.

Q. Did she see you there that day ?

Blee. She did not, she was at-market at Billingsgate; and Berry's wife or company keeper was out of the way, he was so say as that.

Q. Did Ann Watson ever see Mary Jones there?

Blee. Yes, she has, at other times.

Q. from Berry. What time were we at the Queen's Head together?

Blee. It was in the morning, I believe about nine o'clock.

Q. from Berry. Where had I my pincers from to break the knife?

Blee. From out of your half-peck measure.

Q. Have you never said Kidden was near you at the time this robbery was committed?

Blee. I don't believe I ever said so, he never stood by me.

Q. Is this the first or second information you made?

Blee. It is the second, the first was chiefly about Ellis and Kelly, before justice Bell.

Berry. I had but 7 l. 4 s. myself; he says I gave him 6 l. and he swore in this court that I paid it at 6 d. and 1 s. at a time.

Q. Where did you make your second information ?

Blee. Before justice Spurling in Covent Garden.

Q. Was the account you gave to Mr. Bell the same you gave to Mr. Spurling after wards, and the same you say now ?

Blee. I don't think I have said one word now but what I spoke then.

Q. Did the information you made before Mr. Bell take in Kidden's affair?

Blee. I made two informations before Mr. Bell.

Macdeniel. So many desperate men as I have taken in my life, can it be imagined I would trust my life in such a fellow's hands as this is ?

Berry. It is a wonder they have not subpoena'd the woman at the house in Leather-Lane.

Council for the Crown. What is become of the penknife that was broke?

Blee. I flung it away, and did not give it to Kidden. It was intended, if it had been found upon him, she should swear to it.

Council for the Crown. Why did you not give it him?

Blee. He seem'd scrupulous in taking the money, so I did not offer the knife to him.

Council for the Prisoner. When did you fling it away?

Blee. That night going along the road. I had never a pocket about me, having nothing but an old blue ragged coat on.

Council for the Prisoner. Had you not a waistcoat on?

Blee. No, I had not, and my breeches were very ragged.

Q. What did you do with the crown which you said Berry gave you?

Blee. I put it in a handkerchief and tied it up.

Q. from Berry. What colour'd apron had you on?

Blee. I believe it was a blue apron, I have worn divers sorts.

Council for the Prisoner. When Kidden was taken, and you had told him you had pick'd an old woman's pocket of a knife and money, how came you to go to that house on Saffron-Hill; had you no suspicion Kidden would declare what you had told him?

Blee. He did not know my name otherwise than as he heard people call me by going along. I went and call'd for a pint of beer.

Council. That is not an answer?

Blee. Because it was the house I generally used to go to. I was under no apprehension of Kidden's telling where I was to be found, and I knew the prisoners would not suffer me to be taken up; if I was, they had promised me they would not appear against me. I not being before the justice did not know what gaol he would be committed to.

Council for the Prisoner. Did Pentelow know your name?

Blee. He did. He has been at Berry's to take me when I was in the house.

Council for the Prisoner. Is not the gaol that Pentelow is keeper of, the common place where people are committed for robberies in Middlesex ?

Blee. Sometimes they are carried to Bridewell. Berry and Macdaniel have carried several there for the highway; and sometimes they are committed to the Gatehouse, Woodland was committed there.

Council for the Crown. Did Macdaniel know your name?

Blee. He did, as well as any body in the parish of St. Andrew, Holbourn. I have been lock'd up in his house on days, and used to go home to Berry's on nights; he used to leave the key for me at his next door neighbour's.

Having given his evidence he was ordered out of court by the council for the crown.

Hannah Chittey . My father kept the Plough at Tottenham in the year 1754. I remember we were washing and airing of sheets by the fire when two men came in.

Q. How were they dressed?

Chittey. I can't describe that, they were indifferently dressed.

Q. What liquor did they drink?

H. Chittey. They had nothing but beer. I believe it was in the forenoon; my father not liking them would not draw them any more beer, but desired them to go about their business.

Q. Do you know either of them?

H. Chittey. Blee was one of them.

Q. Did you ever see him before ?

H. Chittey. No, I never did.

Q. After they went from your house where did they go to?

H. Chittey. They went to the sign of the Ship.

Q. Did you see them there?

H. Chittey. I don't know that I did.

Q. Do you remember the chaise coming to your father's house?

H. Chittey. I do. There was a woman and two men, but I don't know how they came; I know they were there a great while.

Q. Look at the prisoners at the bar.

H. Chittey. I can't swear to their faces.

Q. How long were they there?

H. Chittey. They were there two or three hours, and staid till candle-light.

Q. What time did they come?

H. Chittey. Some time in the afternoon, I can't exactly say the time.

Q. How was the woman dressed?

H. Chittey. I can't tell.

Q. Did they both stay at your house?

H. Chittey. One of the men went cross the road to the Ship.

Q. Do you remember whether he and Blee were together ?

H. Chittey. I saw one of the two men that were with the woman go over to the Ship, and talked with one of the others, I believe it to be Blee, at the rails before the door.

William Davis . I liv'd at Tottenham at the Ship over against the Plough, in the year 1754. I can't say the day of the month, but I remember this robbery was on the same day two men were at our house between four and five hours; by all descriptions I could get of them they were the poor unfortunate Kidden and Blee; they had 4 or 5 pots of beer, half-beer and half two-penny. I can't say whether I drank with them or not. I know they ask'd me to drink with them.

Q. What was their business?

Davis. They pretended they were going to take some household goods, but I can't say in what method it was.

Q. Do you know which house they came from when they came to yours?

Davis. I can't say that.

Q. Do you remember seeing a chaise come to the Plough that day?

Davis. No, I do not.

Q. What time did they go from your house?

Davis. They went away just about candlelight, it was dusk.

Cross examination.

Q. Might they be other two men for what you know?

Davis. I speak by the description I had of the men that did the robbery.

Q. Should you know Blee if you was to see him ?

Davis. I should, for I have seen him since, and am sure he was one of the men. I knew him in St. John's-street.

Elizabeth Davis . I live with my father the last witness at the Ship; I remember serving a two-penny glass of brandy in a large glass that day, but I can't tell to what man.

Sarah Boynton . I live at Newington-green; I remember in January was two years two men came to our house about 11 o'clock one morning; they brought some pork steaks along with them, and desired me to dress them; they were very difficult, and desired me not to burn them. When they call'd to know what was to pay, I charged 2 d. for dressing the steaks; they said they did not pay for dressing a steak when they called for liquor, so I did not take for dressing. I remember I did not like the men, and was glad when they were gone.

Thomas Sergeant . I live at the Prince of Wales's-head, at the corner of Wellclose-square, Cable-street. Macdaniel was a tenant to me, and Blee lived with him as a servant; he has come to me many a time for beer for him. At the time this robbery was talked of, Macdaniel used to leave the key at my house for him.

Macdaniel. I don't deny but Blee has been at my house.

Joseph Cox . I live at Deptford in Kent; I being chief constable of the lower half hundred of Black-heath, and having, as I thought, discovered the practice of the thief-takers, on the 9th of August, 1754, I very fortunately took Blee. I received from him that day and the next the whole of the affair of the unfortunate Kidden. I took him on the Thursday, and on the Sunday after I went to Tottenham to enquire into the truth of this transaction. On the 15th I took the two prisoners at the bar up at Maidstone; they both, upon their being ask'd if they knew Thomas Blee , denied they had any knowledge of him, and both desired to be admitted evidence. In about a week after that I made enquiry after Mary Jones , but was told by people that she kept herself concealed, or was fled; and I think, at the latter end of last January, I received a letter from a gentleman by the hands of Mr. Baterson, informing me that Mr. Baterson could tell me where she was concealed, and advised me to take the advice of Justice Spurling, which I did; and, on his re examining Blee, he was pleased to grant a warrant to take Mary Jones. This was on a Friday, and on Sunday the 1st of February I met Blee, Mr. Baterson, and a friend of his at Turnham-green. Then Mr. Baterson told me she was at the house of Mr. Swan at Twickenham. We had Blee along with us, because he was the only person that knew her.

Council. First give an account of what Blee told you as to this robbery.

Cox. He told me the next day after he was taken, that Macdaniel, Berry, and Mary Jones , had ordered him to look out for a person to go upon the scamp, to go and rob, or be present when a robbery was done, in order to get the reward, and he happened to meet with Joshua Kidden at the Castle at the bottom of Saffron hill.

Q. Have you heard Blee give his evidence here in court?

Cox. No, I have not, I have been out of court all the time.

Court. Proceed.

Cox. He said Kidden was complaining he wanted work, Blee said he could help him to a job, to go to Tottenham to move some goods for a person that was afraid of his landlord, and that he drawed him into a public house, and Berry had a sight of him; and, on the 7th of January, Berry and Mary

Jones went out in a chaise to the Bell at Edmonton, and Macdaniel walked there, and they returned to the Plough at Tottenham. During that time he took Kidden out of London, under pretence to do this job, and gave the particulars of the places they stay'd at; that they breakfasted at the Golden-lion at Newington green; that they had pork steaks for breakfast, and some dispute with the landlady about dressing them; and went afterwards to the Plough at Tottenham, and there drank till the master of the house would not let them have any more liquor; then they went to a house right opposite, and waited there till the chaise returned from the Bell, and Macdaniel gave him proper notice when the chaise set out to go for London; and that he returned and told Kidden, he had seen the gentleman whose goods he was to remove, and he did not think to remove them that night; then they set out for London; he said it was agreed upon to say the horse kicked, and Mrs. Jones was to get out and walk; that they set out after them, and followed the chaise; and a little before they came to the Seven Sisters, they saw Mary Jones walking on the causway, and Berry was in the chaise just by, and Macdaniel was amongst the trees opposite them; and it was so moonlight a night he could plainly see them; and when Kidden and he overtook Mary Jones , he bid Kidden go forwards, and when he was gone along, he held his hand-out, and Mary Jones put money into his hand (but he said no guinea was ever taken, as the indictment expresses) she only gave him half a crown, a half-penny, and a pen-knife, and then he went on, and overtook Kidden in about fifty, sixty, or a hundred yards; and in order to bring Kidden in, in some measure, he said Kidden had got a shilling left, (that I should have mentioned before; he said Berry gave him five shillings, and he was to tell Kidden he had never a pocket, and he was to get Kidden to put it into his pocket, which he did, in order to induce him to take what he took from Mary Jones ) so he took the shilling Kidden had got left, and gave him the half crown and things, and said he'd find something for supper; he said he had just taken it out of the woman's pocket; I asked him how Kidden liked that; he said, not at all; but still they walked on to the Bird-cage; there they had a pint of beer, and walked on to Newington; Kidden wanted to cross the fields to Islington, but he said he was directed by Berry and Macdaniel to keep the main road; and he desired Kidden so to do; and they kept on till they came near Kingsland; that he bid Kidden walk on, and he staid, and Macdaniel seiz'd Kidden, and he jumped over a rail into a cowlare, and went over the fields to the London 'Prentice in Old-street, to wait for the chaise coming; but the chaise was not brought there, and he waited a little time, and then went to Berry's house, and lay down in the hay-loft, and between 9 and 10 he got up, and went to the Castle at the bottom of Saffron hill, and had a pint or part of 2 pints of beer, and then in came John Lingley and called him out, and he went out without drinking his beer; there was Berry at the door, who with an oath said, what do you do here? here is the constable and Macdaniel coming, and I suppose they'll bring Pentelow || along with them, and they'd certainly have taken you, if I had not come to put you out of the way; and that he went with him, and Mrs. Jones who was with him, as far as Hatton-garden, and there Mrs. Jones took her leave and went home, and Berry and he went to a public-house (the sign I have forgot now.) He was very particular, I spent five or six hours in examining him, and taking it down.

|| The keeper of New-Prison.

Q. Did you go to enquire into the truth of what he told you?

Cox. I went to all the places he gave an account of, to enquire into the truth of it some time before it was laid before the government.

Q. Whether all these circumstances tallied?

Cox. I found every thing in a surprising degree to tally, I could not help wondering at it; but Blee had a very strict charge given him to say nothing but the truth. I inform'd him, if he told ninety-nine truths and the other a falsity, that would over-set the whole. I examin'd him over and over again, and from the beginning to the end he kept uniform. I took a good deal of pains, and never found him vary in any thing material.

Q. Was you present when he was examin'd before justice, Spurling?

Cox. I was, and when the written examination was taken.

Q. Did you see Mr. Spurling sign it?

Cox. I believe I did.

Court. Now go on with the apprehending of Mary Jones ?

Cox. Whe we came to Twickenham, and had taken a view of Mr. Swan's house, we found there was a long walk with two hedges up to the house, with one other house only; we thought that if we all went up that walk together they would perceive us, not knowing what opposition we might meet with, but it happen'd Mr. Swan's family was not there that day (but we did not know that) we agreed for

the constable and I to go up first, and Baterson, his friend, and Blee were to go up after us. The constable said he knew. Mary Jones , and that she went by the name of Fanny. Just as we got to the corner of the hedge I saw Mrs. Jones, but upon the constable's stepping into the house, and saying to a woman, how do you do Mrs. Fanny, made me neglect the woman in the garden and go into the house. I said, is your name Jones? no, said she. I said, is she at home now? She said no. Where is she gone? To Hampton-Court. When will she come back? Not this fortnight, as ready as if it had been true. During that time, Blee and Mr. Baterson, and his acquaintance were coming up the walk, and perceiv'd by the woman at the next house, who came running to me in a great fright, and said, don't frighten us, we are only a parcel of women. I said, we only want to speak to Mrs. Jones. She said, if you will not frighten her, you shall see her at my house. She did this to draw us from Mr. Swan's house, that Mrs. Jones might make her escape. When I came to her door, she said what is your business. I said, I shall not tell you, madam. She said then you shall not see her. During that time Blee came, and said he heard some body at the bottom of the garden calling out, who is that breaking down my pales? which confirmed me that was the woman that I saw coming down the garden, and I order'd Blee to pursue her down the garden. Presently the constable and I went, and at the only house where we thought she must go thro' the people were against our coming in, but at last I got admittance, and in searching about I open'd a cellar door, and thought I heard some body out of breath. I call'd for a candle, and in this deep dark cellar I found Mrs. Jones upon the ground. I took hold of her hand, and handed her up. When I brought her to the top of the stairs, Blee call'd her by her name. Then I knew I was right. I ask'd her if she knew him. She said, no; she never saw the fellow in her life. I ask'd her if she knew Mr. Berry. She at first denied it, but at last fully own'd it. I ask'd her if she knew Macdaniel. She said, no. I ask'd her if she knew Eagan or Gahagan. She positively denied she did. Then I ask'd her whether she should chuse to be carried before a justice of the peace in that neighbourhood, or to London. She said to London. She desired to be carried to Mr. Swan's house first, for some things to put on; she was indulged in that, while a coach could be got to carry her to London. There she in a great rage burst out, and said she would hang Berry; at another time she said she would hang them all. She was examin'd before justice Spurling the next day.

Q. Do you know of a confession of Blee before justice Bell of this affair ?

Cox. There was, it was annex'd to another offence.

Q. from Berry. Did not I come to Greenwich. to enquire if Blee was taken?

Cox. Berry, Macdaniel, and Ralph Mitchel were at Greenwich, making all the enquiry they could, to know if Blee was taken, but did not enquire of me.

Berry. I know you-took him in Newgate Street.

Cox. Berry did not know it then; Mr. Warrin is here, and he will give a particular account of their behaviour at Greenwich; they mistrusted he was mistaken.

Macdaniel. I went to Mr. Cox's house.

Cox. He never was at my house to my knowledge.

Cross examination.

Q. Did Blee in his first confession say he had given the five shillings to Kidden before he went out of London?

Cox. I believe he did and told him he had no pocket of his own.

Q. Did he tell you any thing of his speaking to Macdaniel when he went by him to take Kidden?

Cox. He said he made a motion to him.

Q. Where was he when be made that motion?

Cox. I believe a very few yards behind Kidden upon the causway.

Q. Did he tell you so ?

Cox. I think he did, but he said he jump'd over the ditch, immediately and went cross the fields.

Q. How many informations did he make before justice Bell ?

Cox. There was one made in August, relating to Kelley and Ellis, and a short one upon Kidden's affair; but there was no intention then to go upon that, so it was taken very short.

Q. Have you that here?

Cox. No, I have not.

Q. You say Blee told him he had no pocket, do you apprehend that was only a pretence, or that he had no pocket?

Cox. I thought it was only a pretence.

Q. Did he mention any circumstance of a knife ?

Cox. He said Berry sent him, that morning they set out, to buy a knife, and that Berry broke the point of it off.

Q. Did he tell you what he did with the knife?

Cox. He said he bought it for two pence, and gave it to Berry, to give to Mrs. Jones; and I think he said he give half a crown, a halfpenny and the

knife, to Kidden, after she had given them to him, but I am not sure of that. I know he said Kidden had no knife, except that knife he gave him; whether or no he did give it him, I am not sure.

Q. What did he say when he took her money?

Cox. He said, he and Kidden and Mrs. Jones walked some yards together on the causway, till he bid Kidden go on.

Council for the crown. Are you certain what Blee did with the knife at last?

Cox. I am not.

Mr. Spurling. This is the information (holding a paper in his hand) taken before me, and sign'd by Blee, read over word for word at the same time.

It is read in court to this purport:

' Middlesex. The information of Thomas Blee , ' of the parish of St. Andrew, Holbourn, breeches-maker, ' taken upon oath before me, one of his majesty's ' justices of the peace for the county of Middlesex, ' &c.

' This informant faith, that in the month of December, ' 1753, and beginning of January, 1754, ' Stephen Macdaniel , and John Berry , now prisoners ' in Newgate, and one Mary Jones , late of ' Brokers-Alley, Drury-Lane, widow, and himself, ' agreed together that he should get into company ' with one or two persons to go with him, and be ' present at a robbery on the highway, and cause ' the said person or persons to be apprehended and ' convicted for the same; and this informant farther ' faith, that he got acquainted with one Joshua ' Kidden, at the sign of the Castle, at the bottom of ' Saffron-Hill, of which he acquainted Berry, Macdaniel, ' and Mary Jones , and it was agreed that it ' should be done in Tottenham-Road, in order to ' entitle them to the reward offered there, &c. and ' that he persuaded him to go with him on or about ' the 7th of January, 1754, and they saw t he said ' Mary Jones walking by herself upon the road, as ' agreed upon between them before, in order to induce ' this informant to rob her; and he took from her, ' without the said Kidden's consent or assistance, two ' shillings and six pence in silver, one halfpenny, and ' a clasp knife, and then he and the said Kidden ' kept on the high road according to agreement, and ' when they got near Kingsland, Macdaniel appear'd ' in sight; then this informant withdrew, under pretence ' to case himself, and Macdaniel and Berry ' caused the said Kidden to be apprehended, and he ' was tried, cast, and executed for the same robbery ' in the February following; and that Berry, Macdaniel, ' and Mary Jones , did receive twenty pounds ' and forty pound as a reward for apprehending the ' said Joshua Kidden , and he received about six ' pounds of it for his share thereof. Sign'd, Thomas ' Blee.''

The Rev. Mr. Taylor. I remember Joshua Kidden being tried in this court for a supposed robbery on the person of Mary Jones .

Q. Was he executed?

The Rev. Mr. Taylor. He was. I attended him at the place of execution.

Mr. Gardner. In the month of February, 1754, I was ordered to give notice to the several claimants to the rewards, upon convictions at the Old Baily, and this of Joshua Kidden was settled among the rest. On March 1, 1754, at the request of the claimants in this particular reward, I attended them at the Salutation in White-Friars, there were Mary Jones , Stephen Macdaniel , John Berry , and Thomas Cooper ; I paid the 40 l. and they sign'd this receipt that I have in my hand.

Q. What was the reward?

Gardner. Fifteen pounds to Mary Jones , 12 l. to Macdaniel, 8 l. to John Berry , and 5 l. to Cooper the constable.

The receipt read to this purport.

'' Received March 1, 1754, of Mr. Henry '' Gardner, the sum of 40 l. in full of our respective '' parts and shares, allowed us for the conviction of '' Joshua Kidden for a robbery on the highway; '' and we do hereby authorise and desire the sheriffs '' of London to pay the said 40 l. to the said '' Henry Gardner .

'' Witness our hands, '' The Mark of + Mary Jones, '' Stephen Macdaniel , '' John Berry , '' Thomas Cooper . ''

Mary Jones 's defence.

I am very innocent, and know nothing of the affair, I trust to my council to speak for me.

Court. In a charge of this kind, your council are not at liberty to say any thing for you as to matter of fact, as to matter of law that may arise they may be heard, therefore you must make your defence as to the merits of the case, as well as you can yourself.

Mary Jones . I know nothing at all about the matter.

Berry's defence.

This Blee had rob'd my stable, and I went over the water to see for him, but could not find him. I saw Mr. Cox take him up in Newgate Street, then I went to justice Bell's on purpose to charge him, and I could not find him. They kept him incog.

Macdaniel's defence.

When I heard Blee was taken, I went to Ralph Mi at Deptford, who went with me to Mr.

Cox's house, but he was not at home. Then I went to the coffee-house, and enquired for colonel Bell; he was not there; I then went to his office, but he was not at home. I saw his clerk, and told him that I heard Blee was taken, but he really said he was not taken.

Berry. I had four witnesses, but they are all dead. Hine and Buck were two of them. We have been kept 20 hours out of 24 in darkness, so that I had no opportunity to send for any other witnesses.

For Mary Jones .

Mary Davis . I have known Mrs. Jones almost 14 years, I live in Brokers Alley, and she did live in the same. She came to me about 9 or 10 o'clock one night, and said she had been rob'd of her money that very night, and look'd very much frighted. I have often heard her say there was money owing her in the country, and if she could not find the man out she should never recover it, but I don't know what man it was. She lived there and appeared publickly for about a year after that time, till she went to live with Mr. Swan. Sometimes indeed she was afraid of being arrested. She was bound for a woman for 9 l. and was obliged to pay the money.

Q. What sort of a character did she bear?

M. Davis. Our neighbours are very spightful, they are indeed, they will give no good character to any body.

Council. I hope they'll give you a good one?

M. Davis. I shall never go to them for a good character, I know where to have a good one.

Q. How long did she stay in Brokers Alley after this robbery?

M. Davis. It was above a year and a half after that.

Council. Consider.

M. Davis. It was above a year I am sure. She went to Mr. Swan's after that but she was to and fro at my house at times.

Council. I don't doubt but you have denied her when she has been at your house.

M. Davis. I don't know but I have.

Ann Davis . I am fourteen years of age next 20th of October. I am daughter to the last witness. I saw Mrs. Jones the night she was rob'd; she came in pretty late, but I don't know the exact time, and she seemed very much frightened. When she went to live at Mr. Swan's country house at Twickenham, I went with her, she was there open to all company, and went publickly about all hours of the day, and by water, but I remember two or three times she did not care to be seen for a debt.

Cross examination.

Q. What time did she come home that night she said she was rob'd?

A. Davis. It was past ten I am sure.

Esther Cope . I live in Brokers Alley, and have known Mrs. Jones about 6 or 7 years. She told me she was rob'd about two years ago, I can't remember the exact time; she lived about a year in Brokers Alley after that. She was afraid of being arrested, which made her keep up sometimes.

Q What is her character?

E. Cope. A very honest woman as far as I know.

Margaret Wilson . Mrs. Jones came and told me she had been rob'd, but I can't tell the time punctually. She said they had got a guinea of her, and to be sure she was frightned sadly.

Mr. Swan. I have known Mary Jones about 14 years. She told me in my house she had been rob'd of a guinea and some silver, and came to ask my advice whether she should prosecute the thief. My opinion was to prosecute by all means. She ask'd me if it was a crime to do it; I told her no, it was not she that hang'd the man, but the law, if guilty. She said they threatned to charge her with compounding felony if she did not. Who they were I don't know, whether Berry or who? She took my advice. She came to live at my house last Summer, but was backwards and forwards at times, and looking upon her to be an honest woman I left her in charge of my house in my absence. She attended my wife when sick for a whole month, and had the care of my plate and jewels. I never found the least thing amiss of her in regard to her honesty, and was she at liberty now, I should chuse her before any woman to trust in my house. My wife's father married her, and my wife has a great regard for her. I gave a thousand pounds bail for her appearance, and she has been intirely at liberty since. When I took her from my lord mayor's house I set her down, and bid her go where she pleased. I really never did think her guilty.

Cross examination.

Q. What made her so tender to prosecute?

Swan. You know some women have tender consciences, they are afraid to take away a man's life though guilty. When she made her escape out of the garden, she thought they were officers come to arrest her.

Robert Bugg . I have known Mary Jones 7 or 8 years. I never heard of her being out of the way

till about three or four months ago. She was a visible person during the time she kept shop in Brokers Alley. I never knew any thing ill of her before this affair.

Jane Souden . I live at Twickenham, and have known Mary Jones upwards of three years. I have been told she was afraid of being arrested for a debt. I believe she had the sole command of Mr. Swan's house when they were out.

Charles Slaughter . I have known her three years and a half. I live at Twickenham. She had all the goods and plate in her care at Mr. Swan's.

George Marshall . I keep the Ship at Stamford Hill. At the time of the robbery there was a man and woman came to my house in a chaise, and had half a quartern of brandy; the woman said she had been rob'd; it was dark, and she seem'd to be much surprised, but whether she really was I can't tell. I don't know whether the woman came in the chaise or not, for she was out of it when I first saw her. I can't say I should know them again.

Thomas Edrington . I know Mary Jones , she was in my debt about January or February last, I got a writ against her, and sent an officer to Twickenham to arrest her about three or four days before she was taken up, but the officer did not find her.

Cross examination.

Q. Do you remember what she said to you about Berry and Macdaniel?

Edrington. She sent for me about 14 months ago, and said she heard Berry and Macdaniel were gone to Newgate, and she did not care to stay in my house any longer, for they would not value to swear away her life; and I can't say I ever saw her in her apartment afterwards.

Council for the Prisoner. What is her general character ?

Edrington. I never knew any ill of her, but there is a great deal said of her since this affair. Some have said she kept a bawdy-house where she lived before.

Ann Hudson . I live at Twickenham. When Mary Jones was taken up, she came to conceal herself in my house, and said she was afraid of being arrested for a debt. She never was in my house before.

Samuel Simplon deposed he had known her six or seven years. Mr. Cusworth five or six, Elizabeth Hyate six or seven, Elizabeth Sparks about six, James Fletcher about five, John Shooter sixteen, Richard Franklin seven, William Williams about three, Mr. Jones about seven, Joseph Brooks about twelve, and all gave her a good character.

For the Crown.

Elizabeth Harsnop and Mary Cornelus, being asked what was her general character, said, they had heard she once kept an house of ill same in Phoenix Alley.

Q. to Mr. Ford, Clerk of the Arraigns. Where is the Old-Bailey in London or Middlesex?

Mr. Ford. It is in the suburbs of the city of London.

Q. Where are all indictments for felonies tried?

Mr. Ford. Here in this place. If a perjury is committed here, it is tried here.

Q. Supposing a conspiracy and perjury, where is it tried?

Mr. Ford. The judge in that case has a power to try it in this court. Facts committed in Middlesex are constantly tried at the Old-Bailey, after the bills are found at Hicks's-Hall, and facts committed in the city of London are constantly tried here.

All three guilty . Death .

The jurors farther say, that Justice-Hall in the Old-Bailey is situated within the country of the city of London, and that felonies committed in the country of Middlesex have from time immemorial been accustomed to be tried there.

Old Bailey Proceedings front matter.
3rd June 1756
Reference Numbert17560603-16

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THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commissions of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON, And also the Gaol Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Thursday the 3d, Friday the 4th, and Saturday the 5th of JUNE,

In the Twenty-ninth Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. NUMBER V. PART II. for the YEAR 1756. Being the Fifth SESSIONS in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honble SLINGSBY BETHELL, Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.

LONDON:

Printed, and sold by J. ROBINSON, at the Golden-Lion, in Ludgate-Street. 1759

[ Price Four-pence.]

THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE

King's Commissions of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery held for the City of LONDON, &c.


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