<!-- © 2003-2008 Old Bailey Proceedings Online -->
<TEI.2>
<text>
<body>
<div0 id="t19110425" type="sessionsPaper" fragment="yes">
<div1 type="trialAccount" id="t19110425-75">
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250091"/>
<xptr type="preceedingDiv" divtype="trialAccount" id="t19110425-74"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75" type="uri" value="sessionsPapers/19110425"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75" type="date" value="19110425"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-1" targOrder="Y" targets="def1-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-1 t19110425-75-verdict-3"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-2" targOrder="Y" targets="def2-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-1 t19110425-75-verdict-3"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-3" targOrder="Y" targets="def3-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-1 t19110425-75-verdict-3"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-4" targOrder="Y" targets="def4-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-1 t19110425-75-verdict-3"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-5" targOrder="Y" targets="def1-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-75-verdict-1"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-6" targOrder="Y" targets="def2-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-75-verdict-1"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-7" targOrder="Y" targets="def3-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-75-verdict-1"/>
<join result="criminalCharge" id="t19110425-75-charge-8" targOrder="Y" targets="def4-75-19110425 t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-75-verdict-2"/>
<p>
<persName id="def1-75-19110425" type="defendantName">
<interp inst="def1-75-19110425" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="def1-75-19110425" type="age" value="24"/>
<interp inst="def1-75-19110425" type="surname" value="DUBOF"/>
<interp inst="def1-75-19110425" type="given" value="ZURKA"/>
<interp inst="def1-75-19110425" type="occupation" value="painter"/>
<hi rend="largeCaps">DUBOF</hi>, Zurka (24, painter)</persName>,
<persName id="def2-75-19110425" type="defendantName">
<interp inst="def2-75-19110425" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="def2-75-19110425" type="age" value="24"/>
<interp inst="def2-75-19110425" type="surname" value="PETERS"/>
<interp inst="def2-75-19110425" type="given" value="JACOB"/>
<interp inst="def2-75-19110425" type="occupation" value="tailor's presser"/>
<hi rend="largeCaps">PETERS</hi>, Jacob (24, tailor's presser)</persName>,
<persName id="def3-75-19110425" type="defendantName">
<interp inst="def3-75-19110425" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="def3-75-19110425" type="age" value="26"/>
<interp inst="def3-75-19110425" type="surname" value="ROSEN"/>
<interp inst="def3-75-19110425" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="def3-75-19110425" type="occupation" value="hairdresser"/>
<hi rend="largeCaps">ROSEN</hi>, John (26, hairdresser)</persName>, and
<persName id="def4-75-19110425" type="defendantName">
<interp inst="def4-75-19110425" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="def4-75-19110425" type="age" value="23"/>
<interp inst="def4-75-19110425" type="surname" value="VASSILEVA"/>
<interp inst="def4-75-19110425" type="given" value="NINA"/>
<interp inst="def4-75-19110425" type="occupation" value="cigarette maker"/>
<hi rend="largeCaps">VASSILEVA</hi>, Nina (23, cigarette maker)</persName>
<rs id="t19110425-75-offence-1" type="offenceDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-offence-1" type="offenceCategory" value="kill"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75-offence-1" type="offenceSubcategory" value="murder"/>. First indictment: Dubof and Peters, wilful murder of
<persName id="t19110425-name-416" type="victimName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-416" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-416" type="surname" value="TUCKER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-416" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>
<join result="offenceVictim" targOrder="Y" targets="t19110425-75-offence-1 t19110425-name-416"/>Charles Tucker</persName>; (second count) Dubof, Peters, and Vassi
<lb/>leva, feloniously harbouring felon guilty of murder.</rs>
<rs id="t19110425-75-offence-2" type="offenceDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-offence-2" type="offenceCategory" value="theft"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75-offence-2" type="offenceSubcategory" value="theftFromPlace"/> Second indict
<lb/>ment: All conspiring and agreeing together and with others unknown to break and enter the shop of
<persName id="t19110425-name-417" type="victimName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-417" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-417" type="surname" value="HARRIS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-417" type="given" value="HENRY SAMUEL"/>
<join result="offenceVictim" targOrder="Y" targets="t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-name-417"/>Henry Samuel Harris</persName> with intent to steal his goods; (second count) conspiring and agreeing together with the same other persons feloniously to steal the goods of
<persName id="t19110425-name-418" type="victimName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-418" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-418" type="surname" value="HARRIS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-418" type="given" value="HENRY SAMUEL"/>
<join result="offenceVictim" targOrder="Y" targets="t19110425-75-offence-2 t19110425-name-418"/>Henry Samuel Harris</persName>.</rs> </p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin, Mr. Travers Humphreys, Mr. Boyd, and Mr. Stanley Crawford prosecuted; Mr. J. B. Melville and Mr. Cairns defended Dubof; Mr. J. B. Melville and Mr. J. L. Pratt defended Peters; Mr. Arthur Bryan and Mr. H. Hickman defended Rosen; Mr. Walter Stewart and Mr. Lionel Leach defended Vassileva.</p>
<p>The trial of the first indictment was proceeded with.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-419" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-419" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-419" type="surname" value="POOLE"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-419" type="given" value="WILLIAM HENRY"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WILLIAM HENRY POOLE</hi> </persName> and Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-420" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-420" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-420" type="surname" value="BAYLISS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-420" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">GEORGE BAYLISS</hi> </persName>, City Police, proved respectively plans and a model for use in the case.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-421" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-421" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-421" type="surname" value="WEILL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-421" type="given" value="MAX"/>MAX WEILL</persName> </hi>, importer of fancy goods. I carry on business and live at 120, Houndsditch; the back of that house looks towards the back of Exchange Buildings. On December 16 about 9.45 p.m. I heard a boring and drilling noise against the side of my back wall. I com
<lb/>municated with the police; Police-constable Piper and Sergeant Bentley came in and listened against the wall. Five minutes after they left I heard shots.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-422" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-422" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-422" type="surname" value="PIPER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-422" type="given" value="WALTER"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WALTER PIPER</hi> </persName>, City. On being spoken to by Weill I went into his premises and heard a rough drilling and scraping noise. It seemed to come from the back of Harris's shop, 11, Exchange Buildings. I walked round there and knocked at the door; it was opened by a man in a very suspicious manner. I asked him if the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250092"/>
<p>missus was in; he said, "She has gone out." This man I afterwards identified as Gardstein. On leaving Exchange Buildings I passed through Cutler Street. I saw a man there looking down Exchange Buildings; I believe it was Dubof, but I am not definitely sure. On my reporting the matter at the station a number of officers were col
<lb/>lected and the place was surrounded. I was stationed in front of Harris's shop. Bentley and other officers went round to Exchange Buildings. Almost immediately I heard several shots. I ran into Cutler Street and saw Police-constables Strongman and Smoothy assisting Sergeant Tucker, who was lying wounded on the ground. I went for the ambulance.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Melville. Cutler Street was very well lighted. I said at the station the same night that I could not identify the man I saw, and I failed to positively identify Dubof when he was placed in a row with others.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bryan. When I knocked at 11, Exchange Buildings I saw nobody but Gardstein.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham here stated that he had read the depositions and listened to Mr. Bodkin's opening, and had formed the view that there was no evidence that Dubof or Peters actually took part in the shooting of the policemen, and that it was undesirable to proceed with the first count of the indictment.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin, after this expression of his Lordship's opinion, with
<lb/>drew the charge of wilful murder (a verdict of Not guilty being entered), and the trial proceeded on the second count.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-423" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-423" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-423" type="surname" value="MARTIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-423" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JAMES MARTIN</hi> </persName>, City. With other officers I accom
<lb/>panied Bentley to 11, Exchange Buildings. Bentley knocked at the door, and it was opened by a man; Exhibit 3 is a photograph of that man (Gardstein). Bentley exchanged a few observations with the man, who then went inside, leaving the door a little open. After a short interval Bentley pushed the door open and slipped into the passage. I was standing in the carriage way, facing the street door. I saw the door at the back open, and through it a man's arm holding a revolver; I saw and heard a shot from this revolver and simultaneously another revolver was fired from the stairs. Bentley and Sergeant Bryant were shot and fell; the latter knocked me over as he fell. Then I saw a hand come out of the doorway, firing a number of shots in the direction of the other officers. When I got up I found Bryant holding his hand, wounded; Bentley was lying in the doorway; Woodhams, Choate, and Tucker were also lying in the street. I was lying in the gutter for only a few seconds. There must have been 20 or 30 shots fired.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. It would be just after midnight when I finally left Exchange Buildings; the shooting occupied perhaps 15 or 16 seconds.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-424" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-424" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-424" type="surname" value="BRYANT"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-424" type="given" value="WILLIAM THOMAS"/>WILLIAM THOMAS BRYANT</persName> </hi>, City Police. On December 16 I was a sergeant; I am now an inspector; I have had to leave the force in con
<lb/>sequence of injuries received while on duty. I was with Bentley's party on this night; when he pushed the door open I was with Tucker in the roadway outside. The ground floor room was lighted and I could see there the man Gardstein; I also saw the lower part of a man at the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250093"/>
<p>back staircase; both men fired revolvers; I was shot and fell in the roadway; I was wounded in the cheat and in the hand.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-425" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-425" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-425" type="surname" value="STRONGMAN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-425" type="given" value="ARTHUR"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ARTHUR STRONGMAN</hi> </persName>, City. I was with the party accompanying Bentley. After Bentley and Woodhams had been shot down, a man came out of the doorway and fired in the direction of Tucker and myself; Tucker being hit I supported him round towards Cutler Street; looking over my shoulder I saw the man following us up, still firing rapidly. Afterwards I saw at 59, Grove Street, the dead body of Gardstein; this was the man I saw firing at Exchange Buildings. Exhibit 2 (found near Gardstein's body) is similar to the pistol I saw him firing.</p>
<p>Evidence was given of the finding of a spent bullet and two cart
<lb/>ridge cases in the neighbourhood of Exchange Buildings.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-426" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-426" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-426" type="surname" value="LEVY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-426" type="given" value="ISAAC"/>ISAAC LEVY</persName> </hi>, 271, Brunswick Buildings, Goulston Street, E. I am manager of Salmon and Gluckstein's branch at Walthamstow. On December 16 I left there by a train arriving at Liverpool Street at 11.29 p.m. Walking homewards, when I got out of Devonshire Square into Borers Passage I heard the sound of firearms. I at first thought that somebody who had been at a rifle range, which is there, was firing in the air. As I went up the passage three men were coming towards me; they seemed all huddled together and rather excited; the one in the centre was held up by the arms by the other two, and I thought he was drunk; a woman was running up behind them. As they came up towards me the two outside men stopped and held revolvers in my face; one said, "Don't follow us"; the other said, "Don't follow"; the woman was then about two yards behind them. I stopped, and the four passed me, running through Arrow Alley. I noticed the woman's face, and also that she had a kind of a fur and a muff; the night being very windy, the flap of the muff blew up towards her face; she was about 5 ft. 5 in. or 5 ft. 6 in. I walked through Cutler Street to get into Houndsditch. At the opening of Exchange Buildings I saw four policemen lying on the ground. I ran to Bishopsgate Police Station and reported what I had seen. On the 18th I saw at the mortuary the dead body of a man; Exhibit 3 is photograph of him; I identify him as the centre of the three men I saw on the 16th. On December 23 I went to the police station and from a row of 15 or 20 men picked out Dubof and Peters as the two other men I had seen. On February 8 I picked out from about 15 women Vassileva as the woman I saw with the three men.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. When I heard the shots I hesitated for a moment and then walked on. I did not say at the police court, "I heard shots in the direction of Exchange Buildings and I rushed in that direction: as I was rushing the three men faced me." As a fact I ran down the steps in the direction of the rifle range, and then hesitated and walked along in my ordinary way. When the men pointed revolvers at me I was not frightened; I thought they were showing me how they had been firing in the air; I thought they were students out for a lark. I said at the police court that I was upset and ran away; I was not upset, nothing out of the ordinary; I did not run away;</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250094"/>
<p>I walked in a fairly cool manner. I thought at the time it was best for me to get away as the police might arrest me if I was found close to the men; I did not then know of the shooting at the policemen; I mean I thought I might be arrested as one of the party for dis
<lb/>charging firearms in the open street. When I got to the police station I did not tell the inspector that I had seen two men with revolvers; the reason was that my wife had just been confined and I thought that if I started opening my mouth I might be detained for some time; which would have upset my wife. It is not the fact that I was so excited and terrified that I did not know what I was doing. The men were in my view between two and three minutes; they were walking rather sharply. When I got to the police station I did not make a statement; I just told them to send on an ambulance and men as soon as possible. The next day I made a statement. I then said that I could not give a description of the men, except as to their height. I do not think I said they were Russians; I said they spoke broken English. On the occasion of my identifying Dubof and Peters I knew that the men who pointed revolvers at me were foreigners; I picked out the accused from a row of about 15 men, five of whom in all were foreigners; I cannot remember whether the other three foreigners were young or old or were wearing hats. I gave a description of the men to a constable on December 18; it was taken down in writing. (The statement was called for; Mr. Bodkin said the Treasury had never had the statement; he believed the witness was inaccurate.) I gave their height, and said that one had a short moustache and was rather fair. I am sure I made this statement on the 18th, after identifying the dead body of Gardstein. (Mr. Bodkin repeated that there was no statement by the witness; there was only a report made by a detective of what witness had said to him on that day; no statement was signed by witness until the 23rd. Mr. Melville called for the detective's report; Mr. Bodkin declined to produce it.) I had never seen either of the three prisoners before this occurrence. I cannot be certain how the men were dressed; I think one wore an overcoat. I saw them for two or three minutes; they deliberately stopped and stared me in the face and pointed the revolvers at me.</p>
<p>(Tuesday, May 2.)</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham said that after the cross-examination of the witness Levy he thought it right to say that, having gone very carefully through the evidence—and the prosecution had no other evidence of the identification of Dubof and Peters as the two men who were carry
<lb/>ing Gardstein that night—the evidence to his mind was so unsatisfactory that he could not allow any jury to find the prisoners guilty on such evidence of identification. Therefore his suggestion to counsel for the Crown was that, with regard to the charge against Dubof and Peters of being accessories after the fact to the murder, there was not sufficient evidence to justify the Crown in pressing the case. As to the woman</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250095"/>
<p>the position was somewhat different. He thought there was other evi
<lb/>dence which to some extent would confirm Levy that she was the woman who was walking behind the men who were carrying Gard
<lb/>stein. There were other facts showing that she was a great friend of Gardstein's, and in these circumstances there might be reasons why she should follow the wounded man and yet have had no part in the murder. Therefore, it would not be wise for the Crown to press the charge against her of being an accessory after the fact to the murder. There was another difficulty which had arisen which he did not think the Crown were able to meet, and that was—assuming that these two men and Vassileva were the three people who were carrying Gard
<lb/>stein, were the Crown in a position to show that they knew that the murder had been committed? The law was that it must be shown that the persons charged with being accessories after the fact knew at the time that the murder had been committed—mere wounding would not do. It seemed to him that the Crown would not be safe in going on against the prisoners on that charge.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin said that the learned Alderman, after a very full investigation, having committed upon all the charges, it was con
<lb/>sidered right that they should all be submitted to the judgment of the court. It would not have been right or fair to the prisoners to select for trial a misdemeanour charge while there were on the file such serious charges of felony. Therefore he had opened to the jury the whole of the facts; but from those representing the Crown there would be no word in any way antagonistic to what his Lordship had just said. He did not gather that any suggestion was made against the good faith, honesty, or respectability of Levy. He was a witness who was entirely unconnected with any phase of this case—a mere citizen in the street happening to be there at the particular time—but it was, of course, possible that he might not be accurate in the evidence which in his heart he believed. In these circumstances he very respectfully acquiesced in the view Mr. Justice Grantham had taken, and would proceed with the misdemeanour charge of conspiracy to break and enter the premises of Mr. Harris.</p>
<p>Mr.
<hi rend="smallCaps">MELVILLE</hi> said that on behalf of Dubof and Peters it was only fair to say that before they were arrested, and as soon as the police came to them to make inquiries, they gave the police every information and assistance in their power, and told the police everything they were able to tell them. On the prisoners' behalf evidence was called at the police court, and was available at this court, to show that at the time Levy said they were at the end of Exchange Buildings they were at their own homes.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham added that, although they had come to a somewhat sudden conclusion as to these two charges which were for
<lb/>mulated by the Crown, and as to which the prisoners were committed for trial by the Alderman, he thought that no case had ever been brought before him that was so difficult to manipulate and manage by the presiding Alderman in the court before which this case was brought and the evidence given, and that there was no other course</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250096"/>
<p>open to the Alderman than that which he took. He thought that the case reflected very great credit on the Alderman for the way in which he investigated it and on the police in the efforts they made to trace the various persons implicated in this tragedy and also in the Sidney Street tragedy which followed it. He said this lest it might be thought by those who did not understand the drift of his observations that it meant any reflection on the way the case was got up or managed or on the Alderman who committed the case for trial. It was quite right that the prisoners should be committed for trial in order to have the charges properly investigated in this court.</p>
<p>A verdict of Not guilty was returned as to Dubof, Peters, and Vas-sileva on the second count of the first indictment. Rosen was then brought up, and the trial proceeded on the second indictment.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham. There is a statement I wish to make for the benefit of the jury. Having gone very carefully through the whole of the evidence in this case, I am strongly of opinion that the three men who were really the chief murderers—at any rate, the men who, we know were shooting—have each of them met his doom. That is my view; I may be wrong. One of them—Gardstein—was clearly one of the men shooting at the policemen. In my view the other two men who were in the house were the two men who were burned in Sidney Street. There is no evidence to show that the man who was called "Peter the Painter" was one of the murderers. I may be wrong, but that is my view. It is rather satisfactory to know that at any rate the three chief men engaged in it have met their doom, though perhaps not in the way some of us would have liked. There is strong evidence that these were the three men who were guilty of the murders, although there were others with them.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin briefly opened the case.</p>
<p>Police-constables
<hi rend="smallCaps">POOLE</hi> and
<hi rend="smallCaps">BAYLISS</hi> repeated their evidence.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-427" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-427" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-427" type="surname" value="HARRIS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-427" type="given" value="HARRY"/>HARRY HARRIS</persName> </hi>, son of and assistant to H. S. Harris, jeweller, 119, Houndsditch. Our premises are closed on Friday evening about seven and opened again on Sunday morning. On the ground floor is the shop with a small room behind, in which there is a safe. Nobody sleeps on the premises. There is a light burning all night over the safe. There is generally about £7,000 worth of jewellery in the safe.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-428" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-428" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-428" type="surname" value="WEILL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-428" type="given" value="MAX"/>MAX WEILL</persName> </hi> repeated his evidence.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-429" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-429" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-429" type="surname" value="PIPER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-429" type="given" value="WALTER"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WALTER PIPER</hi> </persName> repeated his evidence.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. When I first went to 11, Exchange Buildings, I knew there was a woman living with the man there; I had gone to No. 12 and asked Mrs. Abrahams there who was living next door, and she said, a strange man and woman who had been there about three weeks. I did not ascertain that the man went by the name of Maurenitz. I saw no sign at this time of the presence of a woman at No. 11.</p>
<p>Inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-430" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-430" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-430" type="surname" value="BRYANT"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-430" type="given" value="WILLIAM THOMAS"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WILLIAM THOMAS BRYANT</hi> </persName> repeated his evidence.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-431" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-431" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-431" type="surname" value="MARTIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-431" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JAMES MARTIN</hi> </persName> repeated his evidence.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250097"/>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. I was in Exchange Buildings from the time the firing commenced till after midnight; I never saw a woman leave No. 11.</p>
<p>Re-examined. I saw nobody, man or woman, leave the house. I tumbled down, and when I got up the shooting was over; it did not last more than 20 or 25 seconds. I did not see the witness Levy. Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-432" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-432" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-432" type="surname" value="STRONGMAN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-432" type="given" value="ARTHUR"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ARTHUR STRONGMAN</hi> </persName> repeated his evidence.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I did not leave Exchange Buildings until 20 minutes after the firing commenced; I saw no woman; if there had been one there I must have seen her.</p>
<p>Re-examined. I did not see Gardstein leave the house; he must have come out while I was assisting Tucker; so might a woman or any-body else.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-433" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-433" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-433" type="surname" value="SMOOTHY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-433" type="given" value="FREDERICK"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">FREDERICK SMOOTHY</hi> </persName> spoke to assisting Tucker on his falling.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-434" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-434" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-434" type="surname" value="LEVY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-434" type="given" value="ISAAC"/>ISAAC LEVY</persName> </hi> repeated, substantially, his evidence given yesterday. Mr. Melville was proceeding with his cross-examination, when Mr. Justice Grantham intimated that, in his opinion, the evidence of this witness with regard to the identification of Dubof and Peters was unreliable, and he did not think it worth while to cross-examine him at the same length as he had been previously cross-examined.</p>
<p>Mr. Melville said that, after that intimation, he would not cross
<lb/>examine further.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham added that his remark did not apply to the witness's identification of Vassileva, as there was other evidence in support of that.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. When the men stopped and faced me the woman ran up and also faced me. On having the two pistols pointed at me I am not going to say that I did not feel a little bit out of the ordinary, but I was not to mad that I did not know what I was doing. Prior to my picking out Vassileva on February 8 I had read some descriptions in the newspapers.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-435" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-435" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-435" type="surname" value="BIGGAR"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-435" type="given" value="BENJAMIN"/>BENJAMIN BIGGAR</persName> </hi>, house surgeon, St. Bartholomew's Hospital. In the early morning of December 17 I saw Sergeant Bentley. He died from the two bullet wounds, one in the front of the right shoulder joint and the other on the right side of the neck. I extracted these bullets (Exhibits 122 and 123). Exhibit 122 was found in the back near the spine; it had gone through the body. Exhibit 123 was just under the skin behind the neck. Their direction was from right to left, not down; the man must have been firing from straight opposite.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-436" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-436" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-436" type="surname" value="RAINLEY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-436" type="given" value="EDWARD HOLMES"/>EDWARD HOLMES RAINLEY</persName> </hi>. On December 16 I was house surgeon at the London Hospital. Police-constable Choate was brought in on that day with six bullet wounds altogether; he was dead; I found these bullets and portions of bullets in the body. (Exhibits 124, 125, 126, 127, and 128.) On the same night Sergeant Tucker was brought in dead, shot through the heart and stomach. I extracted these two bul
<lb/>lets. (Exhibits 129 and 130.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-437" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-437" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-437" type="surname" value="SCANLAN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-437" type="given" value="JOHN JAMES"/>DR. JOHN JAMES SCANLAN</persName> </hi>. In December last I was assisting Dr. Bernstein, 53, Commercial Road. At 3.30 a.m., on December 17 two women, whom I now know to be Trasajonsky and Milstein, came. I</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250098"/>
<p>accompanied them to 59, Grove Street, where lying on a bed in the front room on the first floor I saw Gardstein. I found a bullet lodging in the front of his chest; the entrance wound was at the back. I did what I could for him and went away. I returned at about 11 a.m., when I found him dead. On the next day I made a post-mortem examination. On the first finger of his right hand there was an abrasion, which might have been caused by shooting with a revolver. I extracted this bullet (Exhibit 75.)</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. One of the women had a hat and the other a shawl. I cannot remember what the hat was like. They were both middle height and one of them was of a somewhat slim build. I cannot say the colour of their eyes. I do not think either of them was wearing a dark blue three-quarter jacket. One of them had a pleasant face; I was an hour with her altogether. I subsequently identified Trassjonsky. (To the jury.) I should think a man wounded as this man was would be able to hold up his head for about half a minute after he was wounded.</p>
<p>Re-examined. When I subsequently saw Milstein I thought she might be the other woman who accompanied Trassjonsky. These are photographs of them. (Exhibits 142 and 143.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-438" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-438" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-438" type="surname" value="BENNING"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-438" type="given" value="HARRY"/>HARRY BENNING</persName> </hi>. In November and December last I was manager to Messrs. Millard, of Houndsditch. Nos. 9, 10, and 11, Exchange Buildings belonged to them and I looked after them. From November 21 to the beginning of December a man named Silsteanu was the occu
<lb/>pier of No. 10. I have not the rent book with me. About the third week in November No. 9 was vacant. A man giving the name of Levi came about it; he was dark, clean shaven, had thick lips, a slight turned-up nose, and his face was slightly pimpled. I took him to be a Russian. He was given over to Norris to be shown over the premises. He agreed to take them at a rental of 10s. a week; he paid on November 21. Just about that time No. 11 became vacant and it was offered to Levi. Norris showed him over and he became the tenant on November 30. On December 12 he came and paid a second amount for rent. I never saw him again after that. On December 5 a man of about 5 ft. 10 in. and fair, wearing a trilby hat and a dark overcoat came about No. 9, which was then vacant. I should take him to be a Russian. Norris showed him over. He agreed to take it at 12s. a week and paid a deposit of 5s. On December 12 a man named Goldstein paid the rent; he was a short, dark man with a dark moustache. Exhibit 3 is a photo of the man (Gardstein). He was not the man who had taken the pre
<lb/>mises; he said he called on behalf of his friend. I never went to Nos. 9 and 11 from November 20 to December 16.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. Norris might possibly have been longer with the man who called on December 5 than I was. If Norris says that he was dark and about 5 ft. 6 in. in height with a sallow complexion I should say he was wrong.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. The man who took No. 11 wanted it papered and the man who took No. 9 made no such requirement. No. 9 was in a better condition than No. 11.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-439" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-439" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-439" type="surname" value="NORRIS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-439" type="given" value="BENJAMIN WILLIAM"/>BENJAMIN WILLIAM NORRIS</persName> </hi>. I am in the employ of Millard Brothers. Last November I was sent to show somebody over No. 9,</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250099"/>
<p>Exchange Buildings. He was a foreigner. Later on I showed him over No. 11, which he took. Subsequently I showed a man over No. 9. He did not take it. I took him to No. 10 and showed him over that. I am not well to-day. It was the second man who took No. 9. After the time I showed him over there was no furniture there; the shutters were always up. On December 13 a man and boy brought a box, which they took in there; they opened the door with a key. After No. 11 was taken I saw a woman there. I should recognise her if I saw her. I do not see her here.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. The man whom Mr. Benning asked me to show over No. 9 at the end of November was dark and he had a sallow com
<lb/>plexion.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I never had an opportunity to see what furniture was put into No. 11. I never saw a woman go into No. 9. (To the Court.) The man who took No. 11 was named Levi; he was clean shaven; had a sallow complexion with pimples. I never saw the tenant of No. 9 in the place at all.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-440" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-440" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-440" type="surname" value="MALATESTA"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-440" type="given" value="ENRICO"/>ENRICO MALATESTA</persName> </hi>, engineer, 112, High Street, Islington. I have a workshop at 15, Duncan Terrace, where 1 keep various kinds of tools and a furnace. This photograph (Exhibit 3) is of a man who worked there. I did not know his name; I know now that he was Gardstein; I called him "The Russian," as he came from Russia. I first saw him about fifteen months ago; I met him in a club in Jubilee Street; it was a working men's club—an Anarchist club. He asked me if I could give him the use of my tools because he had an invention to develop. He used to turn and file pieces of metal, but I did not see him often as I was not working in the workshop much then. I did not pay him anything nor he me. He could only speak a few words of English or French, so we talked very little. I used to leave the key with my landlord to give him. Some time before December 16 I had the idea of brazing metals by means of oxygen. I may have had a few words with Gardstein about it. For the purpose of my experi
<lb/>ments I bought a cylinder of oxygen, a pressure gauge, a spanner, an adaptor, and a pair of goggles from Messrs. Broadhurst. I bought at first a 6 ft. cylinder and afterwards a 40 ft. cylinder. On Decem
<lb/>ber 14 a man came and asked me where he could buy a cylinder of oxygen as he had a dynamite shock to make. I agreed to sell him all the things I had bought for £5. I wrote to Broadhurst's, asking them to fetch the 40 ft. cylinder and fill it with oxygen, which they did. This man paid me £1 and the man who fetched (about 4 p.m. on December 16) the things paid me the balance, £4. I think Gardstein was there on the morning of that day. I have since identified the things that I sold.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-441" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-441" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-441" type="surname" value="CRAIGIE"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-441" type="given" value="EDWARD JOHN"/>EDWARD JOHN CRAIGIE</persName> </hi>, secretary, British Asbestos Company, 132, Commercial Street. Amongst the goods with which we deal are slabs of asbestos which can be used as fire-proof partitions to shield a person from intense heat. On December 10 a man called, I should say he was a Russian. He did not know exactly what he wanted. I eventually sold him these two sheets of asbestos (Exhibits 5a and 5b),</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250100"/>
<p>for which he paid me 9s. 6d. On December 23 I was at Bishopsgate Police Station where I saw some men, amongst whom I saw Peters; he reminded me very much of the man who came in.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. It was about 12.45 p.m. when he called. I described him as "a Russian; about 5 ft. 6 in. or a little over; sallow; somewhat dark; sandy coloured moustache; about 26; high cheek bones; pimples on the face." I will not swear positively it was Peters.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-442" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-442" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-442" type="surname" value="JONES"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-442" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>THOMAS JONES</persName> </hi>, case maker, Bethnal Green. On December 10 foreigner asked me to make a box and I made this one (Exhibit 6), and it will just take this cylinder (Exhibit 10). I do not positively recog
<lb/>nise Exhibit 3 as his photograph, but it is very like him. He paid me 2s. 9d. for the case.</p>
<p>[It was arranged that the jury should be taken to the neighbour
<lb/>hood of Exchange Buildings. The jury went there several times in the course of the case.]</p>
<p>(Wednesday, May 3.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-443" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-443" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-443" type="surname" value="SMITH"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-443" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>GEORGE SMITH</persName> </hi>. On the night of December 16 I was employed flushing gullies in Cobb Street. It was a very windy night; I heard sounds as if boards were being blown down. About 11.40 I saw four men, foreigners, coming from the direction of Arrow Alley; one was being helped along by two of the others. Walking very fast they turned into Short Street, and then into Wentworth Street. Exhibit 3 is a photo of the man I saw being helped along.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. It was five or ten minutes after I heard the sounds that I saw the men; I saw no woman.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-444" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-444" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-444" type="surname" value="RICHARDSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-444" type="given" value="JOHN"/>JOHN RICHARDSON</persName> </hi>, a man who was working on the roadway in Wentworth Street, said that about 11.40 he saw four men going sharply up Goulston Street, one of whom he thought was drunk; they had their backs to witness.</p>
<p>Superintendent
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN OTTAWAY</hi>, Detective Department, City Police-About midnight on December 16, having heard of these occurrences, I went to Exchange Buildings; the wounded officers had been removed, but the place was surrounded with police. I went into No. 11; in the ground floor room the gas was alight, a fire was burn
<lb/>ing brightly, and on the table were some eatables, as if some persons had been eating there; there were an armchair and three ordinary chairs and a couch in that room. In the first-floor room there were a bed with bedding, a table and a chair; the second-floor room was quite empty. In a cupboard under the stairs I found the two bottles (Exhibits 104a and 104b). I went into No. 10; the house was quite empty; in the yard was a kind of stall board, like the top of a coster's barrow. The separating wall between 9, 10, and 11 was about seven feet high; on the top of the wall there were signs of persons having clambered over from 11 to 10, and from 10 to 9; the stall board would assist in that purpose. I went into No. 9; there was no furniture in it. On the street door there were two locks, one new and</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250101"/>
<p>one old. In the front room was a coil of 63 feet of india rubber piping (Exhibit 4); this tubing was just sufficient to go from the gas bracket in the room at No. 9 to the safe in Harris's back room. I also found four sheets of asbestos fibrous plaster (Exhibits 5a and 5b); two boxes (6 and 8); a carpenter's bit (7); a bag of sand, and some mortar recently mixed; a 40-feet gas cylinder (10). In the closet at the back of No. 9 there was on the seat some brown paper spread on which was a quantity of brick rubbish and some tools, drills, crowbars, etc. Against the seat of the closet there was a large opening in the brick
<lb/>work of the dividing wall between the yard and the back of Harris's shop. I found later that the new lock on the door of No. 9 (Ex
<lb/>hibit 39) could be opened from the outside; Exhibit 38, the key of that lock, was found on the body of Gardstein. I afterwards went to 59, Grove Street; there were there some chairs similar to those found at 11, Exchange Buildings.</p>
<p>To Mr.
<hi rend="smallCaps">MELVILLE</hi>. None of the exhibits I have mentioned were found on the persons or in the homes of Peters or Dubof. They are indicted together with Gardstein, Fritz, Josef, Hotf
<lb/>man, Levi, and others. Gardstein was found shot at 59, Grove Street; Fritz lived at that place with Millstein; Peter the Painter had a room there. The bodies of Fritz and Josef were found burnt at 100, Sidney Street, on January 3. Since December 16, Peter the Painter has never been seen. 36, Lindley Street was the lodging of Hoffman. I know that Marx went to 59, Grove Street on the night of Decem
<lb/>ber 16; he has not been found; we think he is abroad; we never dis
<lb/>covered where he had been living. No firearms or ammunition of any sort have been found in the possession of Dubof or Peters. About the 19th or 20th of December an official description was circulated of Dubof. We found him at his lodgings on the 22nd. Marx was a Russian. The photograph produced (Exhibit 144) has been identified as of him. Dubof was traced to 22, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush, by his name and address being found at 59, Grove Street, also by a picture found there signed "Zurka," dated" 15th December, 1910." (Exhibit 55.)</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I understand that Josef used to visit 11, Ex
<lb/>change Buildings. The furniture in the rooms at 11, Exchange Buildings was such as is characteristic of any poor tenement. In order for anybody to obtain access by the back from No. 9, to 11, Exchange Buildings, or vice versa, it would be necessary for him or her to climb first of all over the seven-feet retaining wall; in the yard of No. 9 there is also a cistern, but there is sufficient room for a person to pass between the wall and the cistern. When I gave eidence before the Coroner on February 3, I said that no finger prints of any value to the police had been found. The bottles produced to-day had then been found, but the marks had not then been identified as finger prints. We have made the fullest inquiries as to Vassileva; she has never been in trouble in England before. She came to England about four years ago, then being about 19 years old. I know that about that time there was a large incursion to this country of Russian Jews; I do not know anything about political or racial</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250102"/>
<p>persecutions in Russia; no doubt the immigrants are of the respectable class as well as otherwise. Vassileva earned her living for some time as a cigarette maker in a tobacconist's establishment in Commercial Road, and other establishments. I do not know that she is the daughter of a chef who earns his livelihood in the Palace at St. Petersburg. I do not know what wages she earned; I suppose she was just a poor girl without superfluous goods. I was not aware that she had been the mistress of a man.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-445" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-445" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-445" type="surname" value="COLLINS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-445" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>CHARLES COLLINS</persName> </hi>, Chief Inspector of the Finger Print Department, New Scotland Yard. I have had 10 years experience in finger-print work, and have had hundreds of thousands of finger-print impressions; I have never met a case in which the finger impressions of two different persons have corresponded. On December 17 I received the two bottles (Exhibits 104a and 104b) and took photographs of finger-print marks upon them. On February 15 I took finger impressions of Vas
<lb/>sileva. I produce enlarged portraits of these, which enables me to say that the marks on the bottles correspond with the impressions of Vassileva's finger prints.</p>
<p>Police-constable
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN GRIMES</hi> deposed to finding at 11, Exchange Buildings on the night of December 16 a blowpipe, a pressure gauge, a screwdriver, a file, clothes brush (Exhibit 23), a right-hand glove (Exhibit 24), an electrical pocket lamp, some wax candles, a paint brush and some knives and forks and spoons.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-446" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-446" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-446" type="surname" value="KATZ"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-446" type="given" value="LIZZIE"/>LIZZIE KATZ</persName> </hi>, wife of Mark Katz, 59, Grove Street. In the first week of November two men called upon me and I agreed to let them the front and back rooms on the first floor. One man was named Fritz, the other gave no name; Fritz occupied the back room, the other man the front. I gave to Fritz a door key (Exhibit 113). A woman called Luba Millstein lived with Fritz in the back room. They continued to live there till December 16, after which I did not see the two men again. I did not know anything of what had happened at my house until the police came the next morning. I was then shown a man's dead body. I had seen that man once or twice before going up stairs to see my lodgers. Dubof and Rosen also visited there. Dubof, I think, came to see Fritz; it was a long time before December 16 that he came. I saw Rosen there about a fortnight before December 16. A woman called Trassjonsky used also to come.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. Other people called besides Dubof and Rosen, among them Gardstein and Hoffman.</p>
<p>Detective-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-447" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-447" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-447" type="surname" value="THOMPSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-447" type="given" value="ERNEST"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ERNEST THOMPSON</hi> </persName>. Trassjonsky was detained by the police on December 17; Millstein on the 18th. On the morning of the 17th I went to 59, Grove Street, and found the dead body of Gardstein. Sergeant Richardson examined the man's clothing; on it were found 30 cartridges (Exhibit 37), a key of the new lock to 9, Exchange Buildings (Exhibit 38), and a drill; there was an overcoat on the bed with a bullet hole through it; in one of the pockets were seven cartridges in a carrier; under the pillow was a Dreise pistol; two left-hand gloves, a pair of gas pliers, a door key of 59, Grove Street. We also found another magazine with six cartridges in it,</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250103"/>
<p>another with seven cartridges unexploded. On the table was a cloth cap and in it 13 loose cartridges and some rifle bullets, a card-board box with 50 cartridges for a Mauser pistol, a cartridge belt, a dagger, a violin, a tambourine, a mandoline, a water-colour drawing signed "Zurka 15/12/10" (Exhibit 55), a piece of paper (Exhibit 56) con
<lb/>taining the name of "Y. Dubof, 20, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush." In the front room were two upholstered chairs, en suite with those found at 11, Exchange Buildings. In the back room I found Trass
<lb/>jonsky burning papers at the grate, including some photographs, one of Luba Millstein. I afterwards went to Trassjonsky's room at 10, Settle Street, and there found a pawnbroker's contract (Exhibit 120). On December 22 I saw Dubof write something (Exhibit 121); the writing on Exhibit 120 is the same as that on Exhibit 121. The watch is pawned in the name of Charles Somerfold, 40, Gould Street. At 59, Grove Street, I found in the front room a greenish bag (Exhibit 94).</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. The violin, tambourine, and mandoline I found in the front room; that was the room occupied by Peter the Painter; in the same room I found the picture (Exhibit 55) and Exhibit 56. I got to 59, Grove Street, just after 1 p.m. on the 17th; the burglarious exhibits were all found in the front room; the room seemed in a state of disturbance, with things scattered about. When I asked Dubof for a specimen of his writing he made no objection to writing Exhibit 121. I have not before been called to give evidence as to similarity of hand
<lb/>writing; I was asked to make the comparison here because Exhibit 121 was written by Dubof in my presence. I have had no opportunity of seeing the writing of Peter the Painter, or Fritz, or Marx, or Gardstein.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-448" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-448" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-448" type="surname" value="GOODWIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-448" type="given" value="ERNEST"/>ERNEST GOODWIN</persName> </hi>, of Ely Brothers, Edmonton. I have had con
<lb/>siderable experience in examining different kinds of pistols. Exhibits 63 and 66 are Mauser auto-pistols of 301 calibre; they are of German make. The barrels are rifled with four lands. These bullets, Exhibit 31, 32, 84, 86, 126, 127, and 131 have been fired from them. Ex
<lb/>hibit 115 is a Browning automatic Belgian pistol rifled with five lands, the calibre being 7.65 millmetres. Exhibit 75 has been fired from it. Exhibits 122, 123, 124, 125, 129, and 130 are bullets which could have been fired from Exhibit 2 which is a Dreise magazine pistol rifled with four lands. This box (Exhibit 50) contains cartridges which are suitable for Exhibit 63 and 66. Exhibit 77 is another Browning automatic Belgian pistol rifled with six lands. I have seen no bullets that could be fired from such a pistol. The bullets carry over 1,000 yards. Brownings and Dreises are dangerous up to about 550 fyards.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-449" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-449" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-449" type="surname" value="RICHARDSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-449" type="given" value="GEORGE LILYCROP"/>GEORGE LILYCROP RICHARDSON</persName> </hi>, 8, Hopwood Street, Shepherd's Bush. Last year I was in the employ of a rubber company in Chis-wick. One day last October I was looking in a shop in Uxbridge Road when Dubof came out and knocked into me. I had not seen him before as far as I know. He turned round and apologised, say
<lb/>ing, "Accident, accident." I believe he was reading a paper or a</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250104"/>
<p>letter. I saw him on several occasions afterwards in the neighbour
<lb/>hood. In the middle of November I went into the employ of Mr. De Yong, a wholesale warehouseman, and I lived at his private house with my wife; he occupied 156, Houndsditch and also No. 16. No. 156 is on the left-hand side coming down from Bishopsgate. I first lived at No. 16 and then at No. 156. I had to open the premises at No. 16 and lock them up again. I would then go to help at No. 156, where my employer then came to live as well. My wife used to get the keys of No. 16 from Mr. De Yong and at night time I would return them to him. On the night of November 30, I think it was, he was away at a police boxing competition, and I was unable to get the keys from him to lock up No. 16, and I had to wait there; George Crooks was with me. I heard the clock strike 12 and I went out to see if I could see my employer. As I was at the door a man whom I know now to be Gardstein, said, "Good night." I said, "It's a fine night, too." He thereupon came back and inquired what was the matter with the night. I replied that it was morning. We had some chaffing talk and we began talking about the jewellery line. He asked me what sort of business Myers, who was a few doors down, had, and the conversation came round to Harris's shop. He said Harris was the best jeweller in Houndsditch. I said I did not know Harris's. He said he believed he lived on the premises; I said I did not know and that he had better go and ask him. He then went away. I had seen him twice before. The first time was a few days before this. He was just by Stoney Lane with Vassileva and Peter the Painter; it was between one and two p.m. I did not know their names at the time. The second time I saw Gardstein before November 30 was midday in Houndsditch with Peter the Painter and Trassjonsky. I subsequently identified Gardstein's body. About 12.30 p.m. on December 12 I saw Gardstein with Peters, Dubof, Federof, and a tall man in "The Three Nuns "Public-house. Gardstein nodded to me. I saw him subsequently coming from Gar
<lb/>diner's Corner, Commercial Road. In the course of my duties I generally go out between 8.10 and 8.20 a.m. to shop with Mrs. De Yong; I used sometimes to go through Cutler Street. In about the middle of the first week in December I was going out in this way when I saw Rosen and Dubof coming out of Exchange Buildings; Rosen was carrying a green canvas bag and I believe Dubof a brown bag. Exhibit 94 is similar to the green canvas bag. Vassileva, who was at the corner of Exchange Buildings, appeared to be seeing the men down the street; they were in front going towards Houndsditch. I was going the opposite way. I had never seen Rosen before this day. The next time I saw him was in that same week; I was standing in Middlesex Street and he passed me. You can get there by going down Cutler Street. He was alone and was carrying two bags, one of which was the green canvas bag I had seen on the first occasion, and the other bag was similar to the one I had seen Dubof carrying. I saw him the next day in Stoney Lane carrying, I believe, the same canvas bag. In the early part of February I identified him at the Bishopsgate Police</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250105"/>
<p>Station. A few days after I had seen Dubof with Rosen and Vassi
<lb/>leva at Exchange Buildings, I saw him with Federof and Peters, I believe, by Aldgate Church. On the first Sunday in December, I think it was, I saw Vassileva with Trassjonsky turn down Stoney Lane; I know it was after November 30. The first time I saw her she was wearing a three-quarter blue coat, similar to Exhibit 92, and I believe a white blouse; her hair seemed to be dark brown—darker than it is now. I identified Peters and Dubof. I pointed out Vassi
<lb/>leva in Buross Street.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. It is true thai I said in my evidence on Feb
<lb/>ruary 14 that Dubof when he ran into me was "clean shaven then as he is now"; I (believe his face is similar now to what it was then. I am absolutely positive that the man who ran into me was the same man I saw later. It was some time about or before the middle of October when he ran into me. I was still in the employ of the rubber company. On about October 18 or 19 I moved from Hopwood Street to Maida Vale; I had then left the rubber company. No. 16 and 156 are both wholesale houses; but Mr. De Yong lives on the premises. About 30 men are employed at No. 16. I identified Federof, who was eventually discharged. I saw him, I believe on two occasions. The second occasion I saw Dubof was not Decem
<lb/>ber 12; it was about December 12. The third occasion I saw him was in "The Three Nuns"; I have only seen him on three occasions. It was in the early part of the evening that I saw Dubof with Peters and Federof outside Aldgate Church; it may have been between 10 and 12 p.m. I remember now it was late in the evening. I cannot say the date when I identified Dubof, Peters, and Federof; I identified them all on the same occasion; it may have been Decem
<lb/>ber 23. I should say most of the people from whom I picked them, 16 or 17 in number, were foreigners; there were not many English
<lb/>men. Mr. De Yong discharged me because he said I was not suited for the situation.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I cannot fix the first time I saw Rosen nearer than it was at the beginning of December; it was about December 12. As far as I saw he was wearing dark clothes and a dark cap. It was the first time I had seen him and I identified him two months later. I do not say that I could identify all the people I saw that morning; but I had cause to remember him; you do not see many people like him walking about London. When I saw him the next day it was about the same time in the morning. He was still wearing a cap; I do not think he had a bowler hat. I may have seen the photographs of Fritz and Rosen; I have seen 150 photographs. It was a police-in
<lb/>spector who first came and asked me to identify Rosen. He may have shown me a photograph and asked me whether I recognised it. When Inspector Newell was giving evidence on February 15 I was sitting by someone, but I do not know who it was; I do not remember asking Mrs. Goodman if she had ever seen a photograph of Rosen, nor saying that I had done so. I know Mrs. Rosen by sight. She may have been sitting the other side of me.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250106"/>
<p>To Mr. Stewart: I saw a good many photographs before I went to Buross Street, and identified Vassileva. I think this is the first time I have seen this photograph of Millstein, which is handed to me. I have identified Trassjonsky, but not Millstein. I left the Rubber Company without notice after being there about six weeks; no notice was necessary. I can state the reason if desired. I was then for three or four weeks out of employment. I was again out of employ
<lb/>ment at the end of January. I have never spoken to Vassileva. If a number of witnesses come forward to say that Dubof was working miles away at the time I saw him, I still say I am not mistaken. I first gave a description of Vassileva, on December 17; I described her as being 28 or 30 years of age; I have not heard that she is only 23. I said she was well built. It was on the second occasion when I saw her that she was wearing a shawl over her head; I passed right close to her. The shawl was over her ears. When she turned round I saw her hair; the shawl went a bit back. I do not know if I have said before that the shawl went a bit back. Crooks and Solly Abrahams were with me the first time I saw her; they were fellow
<lb/>employes. I believe on the two other occasions I saw her she was wearing a black felt hat; it may have been velvet; I think it was a kind of miniature "merry widow" hat. I know what a toque is; it was not a toque. It was trimmed with some black material. I do not say that it was one of those immense "merry widow" hats; it was medium size. The police came to me from time to time between December 17 and February 14 and asked questions. (To the Jury). I was shown photographs before I went to identify scertain people.</p>
<p>(Thursday, May 4.)</p>
<p>
<persName id="t19110425-name-450" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-450" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-450" type="surname" value="RICHARDSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-450" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">GEORGE</hi>
<hi rend="smallCaps">L. RICHARDSON</hi> </persName> (recalled). Cross-examination continued by Mr. Stewart. In nine cases out of ten I could remember a man who jostled me in the street. Dubof carried the green bag on one occasion and Rosen on the other. On the occasions when I saw Vassileva she was with men, one of whom was believed to be Peter the Painter. The picture (Exhibit 146) is that of the man I saw walking on two occasions with Vassileva.</p>
<p>Re-examined. Before I picked out Rosen, Dubof, Peters, and Vas
<lb/>sileva, I had never seen photographs of them. After Dubof jostled me I saw him many times in Shepherd's Bush. On the occasion when I saw Vassileva wearing a blue three-quarter coat she had a black hat on with velvet round the rim.</p>
<p>Detective-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-451" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-451" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-451" type="surname" value="WILLIS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-451" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN WILLIS</hi> </persName>, City Police. On December 27 I went to 44, Gould Street (Gardstein's lodgings) and saw Mr. and Mrs. Kempler there who pointed out Gardstein's room; the back room on the ground floor. I found in that room a six-grooved Browning pistol (Exhibit 77); about 150 loose Mauser cartridges; a bullet (Ex
<lb/>hibit 78); and another 150 Mauser cartridges. I found a number of rifle cartridges similar to those found at Sidney Street. A dagger (Exhibit 79); a butt for a Mauser pistol (Exhibit 80); and a quantity</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250107"/>
<p>of documents. I had control of the identification. Dubof, Peters, and Rosen said they had no complaint to make with regard to the identifi
<lb/>cation. On the occasion of Vassileva's identification the same pro
<lb/>cedure was adopted, and on one occasion one of the witnesses picked out another women standing by the side of Vassileva as being the woman he had seen in Exchange Buildings.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I am not able to say definitely that an official description of the men wanted was published on the Monday after the murder; the descriptions published were those of young men, Russians. I had nothing to do with it. We had two different solicitors and a representative of the Russian Consulate on more than one occasion at the identification, and they expressed great satisfaction with the fair
<lb/>ness of it. The prisoners were not put in a room where people would have an opportunity of looking through the windows at them. Peters and Dubof were told that they were to be identified on a charge of murder. It is usual for police officers in charge of the case to stand in the room when identification is being carried out.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I do not know whether any of the persons who identified Rosen had previously seen a photograph of him.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. The procedure adopted in the case of the identification of Vassileva was exactly the same as in the other cases. Richardson was taken to Buross Street, where Vassileva lived, to identify her. I had not heard of Peter the Painter before Decem
<lb/>ber 16. His description was circulated shortly after.</p>
<p>Superintendent
<persName id="t19110425-name-452" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-452" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-452" type="surname" value="OTTAWAY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-452" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN OTTAWAY</hi> </persName> (recalled) further examined. At the time Dubof and Peters were, arrested, and when they were identified by the witnesses, I was not in possession of any photographs of them; it was not until they had been before the Alderman and identified. At the time Vassileva was arrested and charged I had no portrait of her. I had Rosen's portrait at the time of his arrest; I gave it to Inspector Newell. I have it now.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. The police did not have a photograph of Fritz. I have a description of Fritz which is a fairly good description of Rosen.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. Prior to December 16 the City Police had no information with regard to Peter the Painter. His clothes are detailed in his description.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-453" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-453" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-453" type="surname" value="CROOKS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-453" type="given" value="GEORGE FREDERICK"/>GEORGE FREDERICK CROOKS</persName> </hi>, warehouseman, 12, Trident Street, Rotherhithe. I was in De Yang's employ for five years at 16, Houndsditch. Mr. De Yong went to a City Police boxing competi
<lb/>tion on November 30; I waited with George Richardson for the keys; he was at the door and I was about 12 yards away. Someone came and spoke to him; then walked on a couple of steps and came back; he asked him about the warehouse and what wages he got a week. They had some conversation about jewellery. The stranger asked who was the richest jewellers in Houndsditch—if Myers was Richardson said, "Oh, no, they are only tuppenny ha'penny jewellers"; the man coitinued, "Harris's must be the richest jewellers, then?" Richardson said, "Oh, they are high-class jewellers"; the man said, "Did Mr. Harris live on the premises?"</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250108"/>
<p>Richardson said, "You had better go and find out if you want to know." The man went away within two or three minutes after that. In December I went to the City Mortuary and saw the dead body of the man who had spoken to Richardson. Exhibit 3 is a photograph of the man I saw. I saw him two or three nights afterwards with other people in "The Three Nuns," Aldgate; afterwards in Houndsditch with Peter the Painter and Vassileva about midday. I next saw Vassileva at Bishopsgate Police Station with other people when I went there for the purpose of identification.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I identified Vassileva about a fortnight after I had seen her in the street with the man. I met Richardson and Abrahams in dinner times and tea times. Peter the Painter was a superior looking man. I have seen the portraits of Peter the Painter, which were circulated broadcast in London; after December 16 his name was known all over the East End of London.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-454" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-454" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-454" type="surname" value="SMOLINSKY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-454" type="given" value="ABRAHAM"/>ABRAHAM SMOLINSKY</persName> </hi>, Hebrew teacher, 35, Newcastle Place, Aid-gate. On August 29, 1910, I had a lodger of the name of Tracom-chik; he left on October 21. Luba Millstein stopped with him. Trass
<lb/>jonsky used to come with "Peter." Gardstein, Federof, and Rosen used to visit him. Tracomchik once said, "Rosen is my brother." Mrs. Goodman lived on the second floor.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. Tracomchik was Fritz; he had a large circle of acquaintances, amongst whom were Federof, Luba Millstein, and Hoff
<lb/>man. Rosen resembled Fritz. Fritz played the mandoline. I do not know whether Tracomchik and Rosen used to play together.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-455" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-455" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-455" type="surname" value="GOODMAN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-455" type="given" value="ESTHER"/>ESTHER GOODMAN</persName> </hi>, wife of Mr. Joseph Goodman, 35, Newcastle Place, Aldgate. I live on the second floor and was there all last year. On the floor below a man named Tracomchik came to live, and was afterwards joined by Luba Millstein. The man in Exhibit 3 (Gardstein) came very frequently, letting himself in with a key, or sometimes knocking. Trassjonsky used to come there, also Rosen and Dubof. There was not much furniture in the room. In January I went to 11, Exchange Buildings, and afterwards to 50, Grove Street, and recognised the things there as having been at 35, Newcastle Place. To Mr. Melville. I think Fritz and Luba Millstein left Newcastle Place before the end of October. I said at the police court I had seen Dubof call at the house more than once, but I have never seen Peters. Trassjonsky, Hoffman, and Federof also called.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. Rosen occasionally visited Fritz. A man named Richardson did not show me a photograph of Rosen when I was at the Guildhall Police Court.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-456" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-456" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-456" type="surname" value="KEMPLER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-456" type="given" value="POLLY"/>MRS. POLLY KEMPLER</persName> </hi>, 44, Gould Street, Stepney. Exhibit 3 is a photo of a lodger I had at 44, Gould Street, named P. Morrin. He had a key of the street door (Exhibit 112). I last saw him on the morning of December 16.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I did not know his name was Gardstein, only P. Morrin.</p>
<p>Detective-sergeant
<hi rend="smallCaps">GEORGE WESTON</hi>, H. Division;
<hi rend="smallCaps">RICHARD GANDER</hi>, fireman;
<hi rend="smallCaps">ALFRED HENRY COLEMAN</hi>, fireman; and Police-constable.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250109"/>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-457" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-457" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-457" type="surname" value="BURRAGE"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-457" type="given" value="FREDERICK"/>FREDERICK BURRAGE</persName> </hi>, H. Division; proved finding in the ruins of 100, Sidney Street Exhibit 112 and 113; 63; 66; 115.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-458" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-458" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-458" type="surname" value="GERSHON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-458" type="given" value="BETSY"/>BETSY GERSHON</persName> </hi>. I used to live at 100, Sidney Street. My hus
<lb/>band is a Russian and has been there two years. On the evening of January 1 Josef and Fritz called on me. On the 2nd they came and stopped the night.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. Some people in Russia carry firearms. I did not know Peter the Painter. I did not know that Josef and Fritz were going to stay the night of January 2.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-459" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-459" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-459" type="surname" value="ABRAHAMS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-459" type="given" value="SOLOMON"/>SOLOMON ABRAHAMS</persName> </hi>, 12, Exchange Buildings. Last year I was in the employ of Mr. De Yong learning to be a salesman. I there knew Richardson and Crooks. I rememnber Nos. 9, 10, and 11, Exchange Buildings being empty. No. 9 was occupied first for about two weeks; then No. 10; I do not know who lived there; then No. 11. No. 9 became empty five or six weeks before December 16. No. 10 was taken by three men, but became empty after No. 11 had been taken a week, about three weeks before December 16. I used to see a man I now know to be Gardstein about 8.15 of a morning as I was going to work. I met him the week of the 16th up to the Wednesday I saw some furniture being taken into No. 11 by a man while Gardstein stood in the doorway—some chairs, a looking-glass, and a couch. One day, while playing ball, it knocked at the door of No. 11, which was opened by Trassjonsky, but I never saw her again there or any other woman. I saw Dubof and Rosen go to No. 11 About a week before No. 11 was occupied I saw Dubof walking up and down the street noticing the houses. I next saw him at three o'clock in the afternoon on the Sunday before the 16th. I saw Rosen with Gard
<lb/>stein the day the furniture was moved in and I have seen Rosen going to No. 11 by himself. I have seen Dubof, Vassileva, Gardstein, Trassjonsky, and Peter the Painter in Houndsditch. I have been with George Richardson and Crooks when I have seen them. The last time I saw anybody going in or coming out of No. 11 was on the Wednesday before the 16th, when I met Gardstein, who spoke to me. I was at home on the 16th after nine o'clock and heard the shots. I went the next day to 59, Grove Street and saw the man's dead body and on the ground floor Trassjonsky.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I have not said I saw Vassileva with Dubof. Gardstein was a rough kind of man; Peter the Painter smart look
<lb/>ing. I have seen Trassjonsky, Gardstein, and Peter the Painter together. I have seen Vassileva with Gardstein and another man I did not properly catch sight of. I have not seen Vassileva in Cutler Street or Exchange Buildings, but in Houndsditch. I have seen Rosen with Peter the Painter. I have never seen any woman going in or coming out of No. 9. There is an incandescent light between No. 11 and No. 12.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I first saw Dubof walking up and down Exchange Buildings about a week before No. 11 was occupied. I could not say what time in the day. I saw him on a Sunday and on a week-day; the first occasion was a week-day. I did not say at the police court, "I am not sure whether it was a Sunday." I said, "I am not sure what</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250110"/>
<p>time it was." The third time I saw the man was in Houndsditch before the Sunday. At the time I saw Dubof in Houndsditch I was employed at De Yong's. I do not recollect the date I left there; I cannot remember dates; I do not say it was the 9th. I left De Yong's about a week before the murders and worked at a barber's shop from the Tuesday to the Friday.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I saw Rosen on two occasions before I identified him, going into Exchange Buildings once by himself and once with Gardstein; on the second occasion he was alone. The man I saw with Gardstein and Vassileva was not Rosen, but someone who re
<lb/>sembles him. I first saw Rosen with Gardstein and then with Vassi
<lb/>leva. It was two months later when I identified Rosen. I have seen photographs of Peter the Painter and Gardstein, but not of Rosen or the other prisoners. Inspector McLean took me to the station to identify Rosen; he did not show me a photograph of him. I made a mistake at the police court with regard to the second occa
<lb/>sion of seeing Rosen. I only saw him twice before identifying him two months later; he was wearing a dark suit and a cap. I cannot remember the dates. The first time I saw him with Gardstein was about 8.15 in the morning.</p>
<p>(Thursday, May 4.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-460" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-460" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-460" type="surname" value="JACOBS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-460" type="given" value="BESSIE"/>BESSIE JACOBS</persName> </hi>, 5, Exchange Buildings, E. I was living at my pre-sent address in last December. No. 11 is on the opposite side. For about two weeks before December 16 I noticed Vassileva between 11 and 12 a.m. taking down the shutters there; I cannot remember when I last saw her before the 16th. I did not see her at all on that day. I also saw at No. 11 a clean-shaven man; Exhibit 3 is not his photo-graph; it is the photograph of a man I saw about two weeks before the 16th doing something to the lock of No. 9. He said to me, "Good morning, Baby." I did not afterwards recognise or see any picture of the clean-shayen man. I cannot say whether Vassileva was there when I saw him. Some weeks after the 16th I identified Vassileva at the police station.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I do not know whether the "Merry Widow" hat is not the kind of hat best calculated to display the hair. I do not know Trassjonsky. I know Solomon Abrahams; I see him in the mornings sometimes. When I was first taken to the station I failed to recognise anyone; I was taken to recognise a man, not a woman. I picked out Vassileva from 15 or 20 people. She looked ill. I do not know whether any of the others looked ill; I did not look at them. The last time I saw her was three or four days before the 16th. I saw her nearly every morning before then, and then I did not see her at all for three or four days before the 16th, although I was there as usual. I daresay a person on the first floor on my house looking down could see through the space above the windows of No. 11.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-461" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-461" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-461" type="surname" value="COSTA"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-461" type="given" value="JOSEPH DA"/>JOSEPH DA COSTA</persName> </hi>, 13, Ely Terrace, Stepney. I am employed by Mr. Marks, a secondhand clothes dealer, of No. 1, Exchange Building, and was so employed last November and December; I worked from</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250111"/>
<p>8.15 a.m. till about 5 p.m. On December 23, at Bishopsgate police station I picked out Peters and Federof from among 20 men. On December 14 I saw them outside No. 2, Exchange Buildings. Federof went across the road to No. 9, leaving Peters standing outside No. 2. Peters walked up and down and then went across to No. 9 and waited. Federof then came out and they waited. A man named Levi then came out of No. 11 and went to the top of the street. They followed him. This was the last time I saw them, but I had seen them together many times before when I have been at my business at No. 1. I used to see Peters about 2 p.m. It was mostly about 9 a.m. that I saw them together. I have seen Peters on three or four occasions. One went into No. 2 and one went across the road to No. 9. I have seen Peters on his own once, when he went into No. 11. On February 8 at Bishopsgate Police Station I recognised Vassileva as the woman I had seen at No. 11 taking down and putting up shutters. I did not see furniture being moved into No. 11. The day after it became occupied she asked me to clean the windows of No. 11, and I refused; this was about three weeks before the 16th. I saw her for the last time on the 15th. I have seen Rosen at No. 11 about three times. On one of the occasions he was with Vassileva when she asked me to clean the windows and on another occasion I saw him going out of No. 11 in the afternoon with two bags, one of which was similar to Exhibit 94. Vassileva's hair was dark then. (To the Court.) I saw Federof take a handle out of his pocket with which he opened the door of No. 9, while Peters was standing opposite. Whenever Federof went in No. 9 he did that.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I identified Federof, but he was afterwards dis
<lb/>charged. I saw him and Peters about two days after they moved into No. 9. I generally saw Peters on week days, some time after break
<lb/>fast. I could be sure which of the men I saw go into No. 9 on the first occasion I saw them if I had both men here. (Peters stood up.) It was the other one (Federof) that went inside. I saw Federof a lot of times; I always saw him with Peters. The second occasion I saw them Federof walked across the road and went into No. 9 and Peters walked up and down. On all occasions I saw them it was some time after breakfast. There were three or four occasions., It is true I said at the police court that I had seen Federof seven or eight times standing outside No. 2 always in the morning. There is no doubt that every time I saw Peters I also saw Federof.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. The first time I saw Rosen was when he was with Vassileva; it was about three weeks before the 16th, at about 11.30 a.m. I cannot remember how he was dressed. A couple of days after
<lb/>wards I saw him go into No. 11 in the afternoon. The third time was in the evening; it might have been a day or two after. I do not remember how he was dressed then. I have never seen his photograph. I have also seen Fritz in Exchange Buildings; I cannot say if he resembles Rosen. I have seen Fritz go into No. 11 as well, but not with Rosen.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250112"/>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. From the first floor of our premises you can see into the windows of No. 11. I was never asked by anybody to clean the windows of No. 9. Vassileva showed no desire to escape obser
<lb/>vation. The man I saw some out of No. 11 was about 5 ft. 9 in., with a sallow complexion, but a clear skin; he was clean-shaven. I should say he had dark eyes. He always wore a light overcoat. I am posi
<lb/>tive only one man went in No. 9 when I saw Federof and Peters for the first time.</p>
<p>Mr. Stewart was about to put to the witness his depositions to show that the evidence he had given before did not coincide with his present evidence, when Mr. Justice Grantham stated that it was very unusual for counsel to cross-examine on a point which had nothing to do with his own client and which had already been dealt with by counsel for other prisoners.</p>
<p>Mr. Stewart stated that he wished to test the witness's recollection, but that he would not continue further.</p>
<p>Further cross-examined by Mr. Bryan. I do not remember say
<lb/>ing at the police court that the third occasion on which I saw Rosen was on the same day as the second occasion; they were not on the same day.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-462" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-462" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-462" type="surname" value="COHEN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-462" type="given" value="RICHARD"/>RICHARD COHEN</persName> </hi>, manager, "Cutler's Arms," Cutler Street. I re
<lb/>member a Mr. Cohen, who used to live at 11, Exchange Buildings. About two weeks before December 16 I saw the newcomers, one of whom was Vassileva. The other was a man; I should not recognise his photograph. I saw Vassileva about twice sweeping from the kitchen into the street. On February 8 I identified her at Bishops-gate Police Station. Her hair was a lot darker when I saw her at No. 11. I was at the public-house on the night of December 16. The pendant lamps outside were alight at 11.30 p.m. Both bars look out in Cutler Street; and a side exit into Exchange Buildings. All the lights would shine into Cutler Street.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-463" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-463" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-463" type="surname" value="BENJAMIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-463" type="given" value="ISAAC"/>ISAAC BENJAMIN</persName> </hi>, general dealer, 42, Medhurst Road, Bow. From 11 to 4 p.m. on the Monday and Wednesday in the week in which the murders occurred I was standing outside Mr. Isaac's premises, No. 1, Exchange Buildings, selling goods. I noticed on both occa
<lb/>sions Rosen standing round me with others; he stood for two or three minutes. I subsequently identified him.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I saw him only once looking on when I was selling goods; it was on the Monday. I did not notice particularly how he was dressed. I do not think he wore a cap. I did not see him on the Wednesday. I cannot fix the time more definitely when I saw him on the Monday than that it was between 11 and 4. I had never. seen him before. He did not speak to me.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-464" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-464" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-464" type="surname" value="ISAACS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-464" type="given" value="HENRY LEWIS"/>HENRY LEWIS ISAACS</persName> </hi>, tailor, 2, Tenter Street, Spitalfields. About the middle of last November, about three p.m., I saw the man of whom this is a photograph (Exhibit 3) at the Corner of Berners Street and Commercial Road, with six or seven other persons, two of whom were, Peters and Vassileva; they were standing talking. About 9.15 on a day in the beginning of December I saw Gardstein again with others,</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250113"/>
<p>among whom were Peters and Vassileva. Her hair was a little darker then than it is now.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I saw Federof also on both occasions. I said at the police court thai the second occasion was on December 1; that is correct. I cannot quite swear to Peters.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-465" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-465" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-465" type="surname" value="LYONS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-465" type="given" value="HYAM"/>HYAM LYONS</persName> </hi>, clothes repairer, 4, Stainers Road, Mile End. The course of my business takes me into Exchange Buildings. On Feb
<lb/>ruary 8 I identified Vassileva as the woman I had seen putting the shutters up at No. 11 a few times. The last time was between three and four p.m. on the Wednesday before December 16.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-466" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-466" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-466" type="surname" value="ABRAHAMS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-466" type="given" value="BENJAMIN"/>BENJAMIN ABRAHAMS</persName> </hi>, son of the licensee of the "Cutler's Arms." On December 23 I identified Dubof and Federof as being two men I had seen in No. 11, Exchange Buildings. I saw Dubof go in and come out several times about a week before the 16th.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I saw Federof go in and out of No. 10 several times; I am certain it was No. 10. I have never seen Dubof go into No. 10. There is a door leading out of the "Cutler's Arms" into Exchange Buildings. I do not think the frosted glass on it comet more than half-way up. I should not like to say that it would no; be impossible for me standing in the oar to look through the door into Exchange Buildings. We should have the door kept shut in Decem
<lb/>ber. I could see anybody going into Exchange Buildings, though not anyone in the street. I know I saw Dubof on December 10, but I cannot recollect the time of day; I saw him on several occasions in the week following the 10th, but I do not know the times. It was not from behind the bar that I noticed Federof and Dubof. I may have been walking up and down the street when I saw them. I was not exactly the barman at the "Cutler's Arms.' I always left some
<lb/>body in charge when I left the bar to go into the street. These murders were the common topic of conversation in the bar after the 16th, but I did not take any part in it as I was too busy.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-467" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-467" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-467" type="surname" value="ABRAHAMS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-467" type="given" value="PHILIP"/>PHILIP ABRAHAMS</persName> </hi>. I have lived at 12, Exchange Buildings, 27 years, the longest time of anybody. Most of the tenants are Jews. On December 23 at Bishopsgate Police Station I identified Dubof as the man I had seen at midday on December 11 coming down Exchange Buildings. He spoke to a man who was standing opposite No. 11. They stood for some moments and the door then opened and they went in. I did not see them come out. Dubof was wearing an ordi
<lb/>nary brown suit of clothes with rather a stripe. Exhibit 3 is a photo
<lb/>graph of the man he spoke to; that is the only time I can swear to having seen him.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. When I went to the police station on Decem
<lb/>ber 23 I did not know the nationality of the men that were wanted. I read the papers, but I do not think they stated that Russians were wanted; I do not think at that time there was any official description given. Before identifying Dubof I was put in a room with some others. I there saw Isaac Levy, whom I knew. I did not talk with him about the affair. I cannot say if my son was in there as well. Da Costa, whom I know, may have beep. We did not all talk about it together; I do not think they allowed us to speak.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250114"/>
<p>Re-examined. I did not know who was in custody when I got to the police station. I did not see Dubof in any part of the police station on that day before I picked him out.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-468" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-468" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-468" type="surname" value="GORDON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-468" type="given" value="ISAAC"/>ISAAC GORDON</persName> </hi>, paperhanger, 11, Buross Street, E. In April last year Vassileva came and took the back room on the ground floor. She was a cigarette maker and she used to go out about 7.30 or 8 a.m. and return at 8 or 8.30 p.m. She also used to work in the evenings till 12, she said, for customers. Generally on Sundays she stayed indoors, but sometimes she might go out. On Sundays, amongst others, Rosen and Dubof used to come and visit her. I knew Rosen as "The Barber" and Dubof as "Yoorka." Two years ago Dubof worked for me for about a fortnight; he left, and I did not see him again until last summer. When visiting Vassileva Dubof said that he called for cigarettes. I cannot say if he came on any other day but Sunday as I used to go out to work. Rosen started coming a long time ago; he used to come regular; sometimes once a fortnight and sometimes every Sunday. Gardstein has been to the house two or three times. Vassileva's hair was brownish flax; the colour of it now is nearly as it was then. About six or seven weeks before Christ
<lb/>mas she left the house saying she was going to a friend named Masha at 40 or 42, Broomhead Street, who was not well. She was away three weeks, but sometimes every day and sometimes once in every two days she used to come back for a blouse or a handkerchief. She returned one Sunday and went away again the following morning, saying she must go as the manager at the place where she worked was ill. She remained away three weeks. She returned on the evening of December 17. I did not know she had come back; I went to drop a penny in the gas meter in her room at about 8.30 p.m. I did not recognise her as her hair was black. She was tearing up papers and throwing them into the fireplace. I said, "What is the matter with you? I did not recognise you." She said, "The guvnor's wife—the missus—is an old woman and she painted her hair, so I also painted mine." My wife passed by into the yard and I called her in and said, "Lena is here." She came into the room and I went out; I did not hear what she said. Before she came in I asked Vassileva why she was burning the papers. She said, "Did not you hear what has taken place? They will come and search everybody. I will give you some other papers to hide, but you should not keep them in your own possession"; I said, "I will take it to my children and they will hide it properly. (Mr. Stewart submitted that evidence as to these papers was inadmissable until it was proposed to be shown that they were connected with the conspiracy. Mr. Justice Grantham held that it was admissible under any circumstances.) My eldest child is 42 years old. At 10 the following morning I knocked at Vassileva's door. She opened it and gave me the parcel. She said she was ill. She shed tears over the photo of Gardstein in the paper. She said, "Do you know what a man he was "; she said he was her lover or her young man. She said, "A friend of Gardstein's unintentionally shot him." I do not remember anything more happening, my wife came into the room and Vassileva handed her three photos, which I added to the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250115"/>
<p>parcel. I then went to my son-in-law and we went to the police station with the parcel. Later that day some police officers came and saw Vassil-eva. I do not remember anyone else besides those officers coming in the evening. On the Monday morning I knocked at her door and went in. She was in bed. She asked me as a favour to go to a doctor who lived at Whitechapel. I asked her what she wanted him for and she told me to ask him to be good enough to come to her. I said, "Why do you want the doctor here! Cannot you go to the doctor's placet" She said that he was a good friend of hers and she wanted to ask him whether he would undertake to say that she was there at his place a few days—several days. I did not go and she went herself. After two or three hours she returned, and said, "There is no more good friends for me"—he had chucked her out. Oh the next day, Tuesday, she packed up a small parcel and called in my wife and said, "I am going to Paris"; this was about 10 a.m. She returned the street door key and said, "What is due to you in respect of money I will send you on and the rest of the articles that remain here I will leave to you." She left taking the parcel with her. She returned at bout 9 p.m. I asked her why she had come back, and she said, "It is very unpleasant. I am watched every footstep. I cannot leave this country; I must remain here." She remained with me till she was arrested. At first she did not go out and at night time she kept always washing her head with spirit vinegar soda. She used to go out mostly in the evening. On one occasion I came into the room she burnt a blouse and a hat. The hat was already burnt with paraffin when I came in; I do not know if it was black or red. This was on a Wed
<lb/>nesday; the next time I see her burning was on Saturday, when she was burning the blue stuff of a skirt. When she came back on the Tuesday evening after she had left saying she was going to Paris I do not remember exactly what was said, but something was spoken, and I said, "However, the Almighty will make we will have to take for good," and she said, "Oh, don't speak about the Almighty." She said, "If I get two weeks here it would not be so bad, but if I am sent back to Russia I will get hanged."For three weeks after burning the skirt she did not go out at all; afterwards she started going out for a little while and coming back again; and in the evenings she used to go out and come in; up to the time she was arrested she always slept in the house. I remember now she was away the week before she was arrested. She left saying she was going to a good friend. She re
<lb/>turned on the day of her arrest, Tuesday. I had no opportunity to talk to her. When she returned on the night of the shooting affray she told us everything where she was; she said she was down there but she was not at the shooting; she left that place at five o'clock.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I said at the police court that Dubof had been to see Vassileva about four times. I saw him for the last time last summer.</p>
<p>On Mr. Bodkin inquiring, counsel for the prisoners stated that they did not desire to put any questions to Chief Inspector Hayes or the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250116"/>
<p>inspector who was on duty at Bishopsgate Police Station at the time of the identifications. (Friday, May 5.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-469" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-469" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-469" type="surname" value="GORDON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-469" type="given" value="ISAAC"/>ISAAC GORDON</persName> </hi>, recalled. Cross-examined by Mr. Bryan. Rosen sometimes visited Vassileva at Buross Street. I employed a man named Carl Hoffman at Buross Street; he used to call with reference to work and to see Vassileva. I do not know that Hoffman and Rosen were friends. Hoffman came to my house sometimes with Rosen. Rosen and Hoffman used to go into Vassileva's room occasionally. Rosen sometimes went on a Sunday in the middle of the day and the evening.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. No. 11, Buross Street is a perfectly respectable house. Vassileva was a perfectly respectable and well behaved young woman; friendly towards me and my family, and quiet. She said she earned 30s. a week and sometimes made cigarettes in the evening as well. As far as I know that was the only work she did. She used to leave at 8 and half-past 8 a.m. and return at 8.30 p.m. She paid 4s. for her room and 3d. for the cleaning. For two or three weeks she had dinners at my place; then she provided her own food. She used to go out sometimes in the evening but returned immediately. She usually spent her Sundays at home and the Saturday afternoons. I do not know the name of the man (Exhibit 3), but he was not called "Gardstein." I have not seen Peter the Painter. I do not know people named Pearlman with whom she used to live. I do not know men called Bifstek and "The Captain," or if they came to buy cigarettes. I know a woman named Masha, a friend of Vassileva's. Vassileva's is the right-hand figure in Exhibit 98. I have never seen Masha's sister. In the photograph of Masha's sister she has a fur muff and stole. Vassileva paid me the rent for the three weeks she had been away when she returned on the Sunday and said that she would have to go away again, and after, when she returned, she had no money at all. We had the keys and could have gone into her room at any time; there was no attempt at concealment. If she wanted to touch anything in the room she could. Inspector Wensley was in the room on Sunday, December 18, for an hour and a half. I gave the police the bundle which Vassileva handed to me. The police took away a bottle from Vassileva's room with other property. I have only spoken to the police once, when I attended to hand over the parcel on the 18th. The police watched my house from the 18th, watching for Peter the Painter, I heard. My girl read the paper to Vassileva about Peter the Painter; she seemed very anxious, and when it was said that Peter the Painter had gone to Paris, she said, "They do not know what they are looking for; Peter the Painter was never in existence "; she wanted me to believe that Peter the Painter was not amongst the lot. She was dreadfully grieved and crying; ill. She asked me that I should go and call the doctor. I asked her, "What do you want the doctor for?" so she said, "You go to him and tell him, as he is a good friend of mine, that I want him, and he will come"; I did not</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250117"/>
<p>go, she went herself. She said she wanted somewhere to stay for a few nights. I do not know where she went, but when she came back I asked what the doctor said and she replied, "There is no more good friends; I was a good friend to everybody." I remember giving evidence at the Guildhall when I said she told me "she should not come to him because she would bring trouble." On the day she said she was going to Paris she said." London is no good for me "; this was on the Monday, not the Tuesday. She told me if she went to Russia she would be hanged. I do not suggest she was guilty of any crime in Russia. I do not know if she made a blouse out of her blue skirt. Masha called on Saturday evening, December 17, 10 minutes before Vassileva came in, and asked whether a parcel had arrived for Vassileva. After the shooting' affair I used sometimes to be in Vas-sileva's room; she was all day there. In the two or three weeks after the washed her head she used to go out for two or three hours after dinner; sometimes she returned at sunset. I should not say that on the occasions when she had been out she came back and found me in her room. I said before the Alderman "we were altogether; we used to go in her room and my room." After the shoot
<lb/>ing affair she was very tired, not well, and she asked me to come in her room to assist and sympathise with her. On the Sunday I told her not to burn any more papers, but to give them to me to keep for her. She said, "All the foreigners will be traced; I do not want it; you will keep it as well"; I told her I would take it to my children. I took it to the police the same day. The police paid me money for the Guildhall, but nothing else; 10s. 4d. Apart from that I have not received any money for looking after Vassileva. I have not received 15s. a week in reference to this case; neither 15 farthings.</p>
<p>Re-examined by Mr. Bodkin. On the Monday after the Saturday Vassileva said that she was going to the doctor's to ask him to do her a favour; to say that he has kept her several nights. There was a bottle in her room (Exhibit 99) containing some spirit with which she washed her head, and a sponge (Exhibit 100).</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-470" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-470" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-470" type="surname" value="GORDON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-470" type="given" value="FANNY"/>FANNY GORDON</persName> </hi>, wife of Isaac Gordon, 11, Buross Street. Vassileva came to lodge with me about 12 months ago; she was there eight months. At the Guildhall I saw a man I called the Barber, and Zurka, who used to visit her. (The witness went near the dock and pointed to Dubof and Rosen.) They used to come sometimes on Sundays; some-times in the middle of the week. Hoffman used to come sometimes. Seven weeks before Christmas Vassileva stopped away from home; she said she was going to her friend Masha, who was ill; she was away three weeks. She returned on a Sunday, paid me three weeks' rent, and said she was going away for another few weeks. She said she had to go to her guvnor's, who was ill, to manage the place. On the Monday she made up a parcel of clothes and went away. I did not see her for three weeks till the day after the shooting, at half-past eight in the evening in her room at my place. I noticed she looked with black hair; it was flaxy colour before she went away. I asked her what was the matter with her hair, but she did not answer. She never</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250118"/>
<p>gave any reason for the change of colour at first, but afterwards she said she dyed her hair, but did not give any reason for it. We heard of the shooting on the Saturday and spoke to her about it. I asked her if she had heard what had happened in London, and she replied that she had heard nothing of it in the country. She did not say what part of the country she had been in. On the Sunday Vassileva lay in bed till the afternoon. Masha called to see her on the Satur
<lb/>day night and Sunday morning. The Barber came on the Sunday evening and was there for about an hour. About 10 or 15 minutes after Rosen left the detectives came. My husband had a conversation with Vassileva on the Monday; she went to the doctor. On the Tues
<lb/>day we saw a parcel in her room; she said she was going to Paris; she gave me the key of the street door, and said she must go away. She came back about eight o'clock and said "It is impossible to go away; I am being watched." She said "As I cannot leave England I will have to stay in London, and what will happen let happen." She was white and very much agitated and nervous. When she came back she used to lay out the cards and guess on them. She used to wash her hair with spirits. For three weeks she did not go out only to buy spirits and soap; she was five weeks indoors, and then on the Monday she went away after supper and returned on the following Tuesday week, when she was arrested at the corner of Sidney Street; I was with her. When she came back on Saturday, the 17th, she burnt some dark blue stuff like the stuff of a skirt. I think Vassileva had a white hat and a coloured one. On the Saturday after the murders I noticed on the top of a box in her room a fur muff; the following week we had a conversation about it. I told her I could not wait for the money she owed me, and she replied "take that fur muff which cost me £3, and take it to the pawnshop; you will, I daresay, get 25s. or 30s. in the pawn, then you will have some money." Afterwards she said Masha had bought it as a present for her. I gave evidence twice at the Guild-hall. I kept the muff and stole as she told me to; she said, "If I will be lucky and won't be arrested I will go to work and will take it away from you." I think it was February 27, when I gave the muff to the police.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I said at the police court "The last time I saw Dubof at the house was last summer. I cannot say when." He called on Vassileva for cigarettes.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. Hoffman was employed at my house; he was a friend of Rosen. On Sunday, 18th, Rosen called alone in the even
<lb/>ing. I found the barber, Nina, and Masha in Nina's room on the Sunday before the detectives came. I do not know how long Rosen was with Vassileva; he did not tell me he had come to see Hoffman.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I cannot read Russian. I gave evidence three times at the Guildhall. I there said what Vassileva had said, "If I am lucky and am not arrested I will take them back." I said it at the Guildhall and told the detectives the same thing. Nobody has given me any money for taking care of Vassileva. I have not been (paid 15s. a week since December 18; prisoner owes me nine weeks rent and five weeks food. Nina once took me to the Jubilee Street</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250119"/>
<p>Club; there were a number of Russians there, but I could not say who they were; music and dancing took place and speeches. I did not know the names of the men who called at the house till they appeared in the paper. Zurka called perhaps three times. I heard my girl read the papers to Vassileva, but did not understand it; she is 12 years old. I do not know Peter the Painter; I saw the picture of the man who was shot in the papers; I know now his name is Gard-stein. Masha wore furs like those Nina had in her room. The detec
<lb/>tives were in the room about an hour and a half. Nina said Masha was a good friend of hers, and, as she was ill, she was going to attend her. Vassileva did not say Masha gave her the furs for her kindness. Two or three weeks after the detective called somebody knocked at the door for money for the furs; Nina said, "I cannot understand the man calling here for money; Masha bought it and Masha will pay."</p>
<p>Re-examined. The friend she went to nurse was Masha; up to that time I had never seen Vassileva with furs; she told me they were a present from Masha.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-471" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-471" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-471" type="surname" value="GORDON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-471" type="given" value="POLLY"/>POLLY GORDON</persName> </hi>, daughter of last witness. Vassileva went away seven weeks before Christmas; she said she had been nursing a sick friend, Masha; the second time she said she was going to the gover
<lb/>nor's to be manager as he was ill. She was away for three weeks and came back on the Saturday; I saw her and noticed her hair was a different colour; when she went away it was flaxen, but that night it was brown. I went into her room and she asked me to read about the Houndsditch affair in the paper. She understands English. There was a description of a woman in the paper—height, 5 ft. 8 in. After reading it Vassileva seemed very miserable; she measured herself with a yard stick and said she was exactly the same height as men
<lb/>tioned in the paper. I did not see her do anything in regard to her clothes. I read to her the description of the woman's clothes; it said a woman with a three-quarter jacket and skirt; I believe it was blue. I do not remember Vassileva saying anything about the dress.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. The paper I read was the "Evening Times" 6.30 edition. Vassileva does not wear shoes; she wears black boots. When she came back on the Saturday she wore the same clothes as when she went away. I do not remember reading about Mr. Cohen, of 10, Cutler Street, telling the Press Association that the police had found in 11, Exchange Buildings enough dynamite to blow up the whole of Houndsditch. I do not remember reading "Mr. Cohen believes that the woman was a man disguised." I read all except the latest news. I read the description of the men wanted. I saw the picture of Gardstein in the paper. Vassileva put on her hat.) Nina did not wear that hat before the murders; she wore a white hat. I do not remember her wearing it; she wore a white hat right up to December.</p>
<p>(Friday, May 5.)</p>
<p>Detective-Inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-472" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-472" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-472" type="surname" value="WENSLEY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-472" type="given" value="FREDERICK"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">FREDERICK WENSLEY</hi> </persName>, Metropolitan Police. I had certain information with regard to the Houndsditch crimes on December 18. I was in Arbour Square police station when Gordon</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250120"/>
<p>came in and handed me this bundle of papers and photographs (pro-duced). He made a communication to me, and at 10.30 p.m. I went with two other officers to 11, Buross Street. I had not heard of Rosen or Vassileva before. Vassileva was in her room; her hair was hanging down her back and had obviously been dyed. I said to her "Do you understand English?" She said, "Just a little." I said, "We are police officers, and I want to speak with you. Do you under-stand me?" She said "Yes, if you don't speak too quick." I said, "What is your name, where do you come from, and what are you?" She said, "Nina Vassiley (as I understood it). I am a Russian, and I make cigarettes." I said, "We have been told that you were a member of the club at Jubilee Street." She said, "I used to go there sometimes." I said, "Do you know that some police officers were shot at Hounsditch on Friday night?" She said, "I heard of it." I said, "Some of the men who were engaged in the shooting are said to have been members of that club. Do you know them?" She said, "Per-haps I do; perhaps I don't." I then said, "We have been told that you have been away from home this three weeks, and only came home yesterday." She said, "It's a lie; I have always been here." I then said, "I am also told that you have some bullets and cartridges here." She said, "I have not; you can look, gentlemen, if you like." We found nothing there. I showed her photographs that Gordon had given me, one of which was a group in which was Gardstein, and asked her whose photos they were. She said "I do not know." We then left. Observation was then kept on the house. I reported the matter to the City Police, and as far as I know they watched the house from the following day. I only looked for ammunition. I took possession of no
<lb/>thing. I did not know at that time that any importance was attached to a muff or furs. I attached no importance to finger-prints. (Chief-inspector Willis here produced a photograph of Gardstein when alive (Exhibit 76), found by him at 44, Gold Street.).</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. Gardstein was a good-looking man. I cannot dis
<lb/>tinguish Vassileva's photograph in this group (Exhibit 103a). I see in it nobody connected with this case. If Federof is here, it would be the man with the moustache. Vassileva did not seek to conceal her address from me. She speaks English very imperfectly. Since December 18 I have made as many inquiries as possible in the limited space of time as to her antecedents; I do not suggest she has a criminal record of any kind. I cannot translate the names of the books Gordon handed me. I should think we were 45 minutes with her. I did not see a bottle. I know one was found in her room, I presume about Feb
<lb/>ruary 17. The Jubilee Street Club is a club to which a large number of Russians went. I should say some of them were respectable; there are many clubs in the East End where it is not etiquette to ask the name of a fellow member. It depends upon circumstances whether we leave a woman at liberty to watch if men who are wanted come and see her. (Mr. Justice Grantham ruled the question as to whether this pro
<lb/>ceeding was adopted in this case as inadmissible, as it would be contrary to the public interest for the witness to answer.) At this time we</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250121"/>
<p>were watching for, amongst others, Peter the Painter. The reward of £500 was first published, for information as to Peter the Painter, Fritz Svaars, and a woman, as far as I remember, on December 22. Peter the Painter, Fritz Svaars, and Luba Millstein were then living at 59, Grove Street. Svaars died at Sidney Street, Millstein was liberated, and I have heard that Trassjonski since her release has been sent to an asylum. To my knowledge it was not reported that Peter the Painter went to Paris shortly after these occurrences. The last place we heard of him was in the east end of London.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-473" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-473" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-473" type="surname" value="BEAVER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-473" type="given" value="CHARLES HENRY"/>CHARLES HENRY BEAVER</persName> </hi>, assistant, I. Layman, Limited, 31, White
<lb/>chapel Road, E. We take in about 100 pledges a day. On Decem
<lb/>ber 16 we took into pledge a gold watch, on which we advanced £4 in the name of "Charles Summerfelt, of 42, Gold Street." Exhibit 120 is the counterpart of the contract signed by the pledger. I can tell from the number it was pledged about midday. As far as I remember, it was a fair man, respectably dressed, and aged about 20. This is the watch. (Produced.)</p>
<p>To the Jury. I saw him sign the contract note, but the description I have given is as far as I can remember.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-474" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-474" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-474" type="surname" value="TOCKMACOFF"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-474" type="given" value="NICOLAI"/>NICOLAI TOCKMACOFF</persName> </hi>, seam presser, 47, Broomhead Street, E. I am in the employ of Mr. Solooski, of 20, Spital Square, I knew the Anarchist Club in Jubilee Street. Eight months ago I first met Fritz Svaars there. I play the balalaika. After I got to know him he called upon me, and I called upon him at 59, Grove Street, where Trassjonsky lived with him. Peter the Painter lived in the front room. I recognise Dubof, Peters, and Rosen, whom I knew as "The Barber." I first met Dubof when he came to my lodgings at Broomhead Street; Fritz introduced him to me; he said, "He is a painter." I first met Peters at the club, and I have seen Rosen at 59, Grove Street. Fritz told me he was a barber. The first time I met Josef was on December 16, at Grove Street. I knew Gardstein. On December 16 I saw Fritz had a pistol similar to Exhibit 66, and bullets for it; this was at Grove Street. A fortnight before he came to my lodgings and showed mo a Browning pistol similar to Exhibit 2. At 12.45 p.m. on December 16 I went to 59, Grove Street; I used to go there every day. I learnt Fritz to play the mandolin. In the large room in the front I saw 12 people, amongst whom were Peter the Painter, Fritz, Rosen, Josef, Federof, Millstein, Marx, Gardstein, and Hoffman. Peter and Rosen played chess, Marx and Fritz made up paint, and Josef, Federof, Dubof, and myself stood by the bed. I stayed there an hour. I do not remember what was spoken about. I then left. Nobody went before I did. I left the mandolin behind me, and I went back the next day to get it, as I wanted to go to Shepherd's Bush to Dubof on the Sunday to play it. The police arrested me when I got there.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. Englishmen go to the club as well as Russians. I have not seen any recreation hall there, but there is a concert-room; there is also a refreshment-room, and a library. When I saw Peters there there was a concert going on. I am not an anarchist. On</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250122"/>
<p>December 16, at Grove Street, I saw no picture painted by Dubof. Dubof said that he knew of a factory where he would ask for work for me. I saw absolutely nothing suspicious there. It might have been one or two o'clock when I got there. Gardstein, Federof, and Josef arrived after I did. I should not like to deny that Dubof came after two o'clock. The police took from me a pocket-book in which were Peters' and Dubof's names and addresses. I never told them that Peters was Svaars' cousin.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I have only seen Rosen once at Grove Street. He resembles Fritz; I always thought they were brothers. Fritz did not tell me that Rosen played the mandolin.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I do not know if Peter the Painter was a political malcontent. I did not notice if Trassjonsky and Millstein opened the door and immediately withdrew.</p>
<p>Re-examined. I have nothing to do with Anarchism.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-475" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-475" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-475" type="surname" value="BROWN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-475" type="given" value="WOLF"/>WOLF BROWN</persName> </hi>, drapery dealer, 36, Lindley Street, E. Fritz Svaars with Millstein used to come to my house now and again. I knew Gardstein, though not by name; he also used to call. Rosen used to come alone very often, as also did Dubof. They came to see my lodger, Hoffman. I have seen in his room together Hoffman, Fritz, Gardstein, Rosen, and, I think, once or twice, Dubof.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I knew Hoffman also as "Masias."</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-476" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-476" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-476" type="surname" value="GOTTS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-476" type="given" value="ADELAIDE"/>ADELAIDE GOTTS</persName> </hi>. I have lived at 42, Gold Street, 12 years and I let one room. I have never had a lodger named "Summerfelt." The lodgers I have now are named Donovan, and they have been with me about five months. For five months previously to that my lodgers were named Mott.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-477" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-477" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-477" type="surname" value="PILERAS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-477" type="given" value="CASIMIR"/>CASIMIR PILERAS</persName> </hi>, interpreter, Thames Police Court. I was present at Bishopsgate Police Station when, on December 24, Federof, Peters, and Dubof were charged with, amongst other things, conspiracy to break and enter 119, Houndsditch. I interpreted the charge, Federof acting as spokesman, said, "We deny all knowledge and we are not guilty"; the others repeated the words. Two days previously I went with police officers to 48, Turner Street, where Peters was. Acting on instructions, I said to him, "These persons are police officers making inquiries about the Houndsditch murder." He said, "I do not care; I cannot help what my cousin Fritz has done. I know nothing at all about it." On the way to Old Jewry he said, "I expected this every day. If the police want to know what happened that Friday night, they may call my landlord's attention that on that particular evening I was engaged in mending or setting a mousetrap. After I left work I went to a provision shop facing Turner Street, bought food here, brought it home, and never went out again. I went to bed about 12 o'clock." At the police station I cautioned him, he having said that he was quite willing to answer all the questions that were put to him. He made a statement which I interpreted and In
<lb/>spector Collinson wrote down. (The statement was read.)</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. He gave us every information quite freely. He was detained for inquiry on December 22, and I was careful to explain to him that he was not under arrest. Something was mentioned about</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250123"/>
<p>a dead man being found in Fritz's room. I know that he handed some officer some cards of membership of different societies, but I cannot remember to whom.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. The titles of these books are as follows: "History of the Revolutionary Movement in Russia." "On Revolution and on Revolutionary Government," "A Tale About an Unrighteous Czar," "The Government: Its Role in History," "Positive Science," etc.; they are all revolutionary books. (These were the books handed by Vassileva to Isaac Gordon.)</p>
<p>Detective-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-478" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-478" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-478" type="surname" value="COLLINSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-478" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN COLLINSON</hi> </persName>, City Police. On December 22 I saw Peters at 48, Turner Street. I took him to the station, where he was charged with murder and with conspiracy to break and enter. I wrote Exhibit 67, which is a statement he made, interpreted to me by the interpreter.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. He was charged on the 24th. He showed me cards of membership of various societies to which he belonged, one of which is "Rules of the Shoreditch Social Democratic Working Men's Club and Institute." I found that he had been working regularly since the previous July; I did not go back further than that. He was working from eight to eight, and he never missed a day up to the time of his arrest.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I cannot say if Exhibits 104a and 104b were in the possession of the police as early as December 17. I have not read any information as to where Peter the Painter is.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-479" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-479" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-479" type="surname" value="BERGER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-479" type="given" value="MAX"/>MAX BERGER</persName> </hi>, tailor, 10, Settles Street, E. From September till December 17 last year Trassjonsky was my lodger. She had women friends come to see her. Some days before December 16 I saw Vassileva with her in the street, but I have never seen her at my house.</p>
<p>Detective-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-480" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-480" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-480" type="surname" value="NEWELL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-480" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WILLIAM NEWELL</hi> </persName>, City Police. On Decem
<lb/>ber 22 I went to 20, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush, where at 2 p.m. I saw Dubof. I spoke to him in English and I think he under
<lb/>stood. I told him who I was and said, "I am making inquiries regarding the Houndsditch murders." Mrs. Petter, his landlady, who was present, spoke his language and English. There was then some conversation between her and Dubof in his own tongue. She spoke to me in English, and I had written a portion of the statement down when I said that he had better come to the Old Jewry Police Station. He said, "You make a mistake; I will go with you." At the station he made a further statement in broken English, I having cautioned him first. I wrote it down at the end of what I had taken down from Mrs. Petter. Exhibit 68 is the statement which he signed. (The statement was read.) On February 2 I went to Wells Street, Hackney, a hairdresser's shop, where I saw Rosen. I told him who I was, and he said, "I know you have come to arrest me." I said, "I want you to accompany me to the City as I have reason to believe that you can give me some important information respecting the Houndsditch murders." He replied, "I will come with you." I took him to Old Jewry where he was cautioned. A statement was</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250124"/>
<p>taken from him which he signed. He made the statement without the aid of an interpreter. (Exhibit 88 was read.)</p>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-481" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-481" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-481" type="surname" value="WOODWARD"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-481" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JAMES WOODWARD</hi> </persName>, 316, City Police. On Feb
<lb/>ruary 6 I was at Bishopsgate Police Station keeping observation on Rosen when he came to the cell door and said, "What will they do with me if I know something and do not tell them?" I said, "Do you know anything about this affair?" He said, "I could show you where a woman and a man who was concerned in it—where they lived when I was brought in here." He turned away from the cell door and then turned back again and asked me the meaning of the word "frequently" and "urgent." I explained the meaning to him. He then said he would like to go to Old Jewry to make a statement, and the authorities were communicated with.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-482" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-482" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-482" type="surname" value="OTTAWAY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-482" type="given" value="JOHN"/>JOHN OTTAWAY</persName> </hi>, recalled. I was present when the statement was taken from Rosen in continuation of Exhibit 88. It is Exhibit 89. It was further continued in the form of Exhibit 90. (These state
<lb/>ments were read. He stated therein that the statement he had pre-viously made was false, and that as to Vassileva two or three days after the Houndsditch affair he called on her without any special object, and discovered her washing her hair; that she asked him if he had brought trouble with him and he said he did not know; that he asked her what was the matter with her head as her hair was not all one colour, and that she said that she was the woman who had been living at Exchange Buildings, and he understood her to say that she had dyed her hair but as it was not good she was washing it out again; that she asked him not to go there again as he might bring trouble; that she told him she took and lived in a room in Exchange Buildings but that she left when all the men went in, by which he understood her to mean that she left there when they went in to commit the crime; and that he then left after having remained there 15 minutes.)</p>
<p>(Saturday, May 6.)</p>
<p>Inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-483" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-483" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-483" type="surname" value="NEWELL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-483" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WILLIAM NEWELL</hi> </persName>, recalled. When I went to Dubof's lodgings on December 22 I told him I was making inquiries about the Houndsditch murders. I should hardly say he was in custody then. He then made part of the statement (Exhibit 68). That part was translated by his landlady. He was then taken to the police station and kept under detention; I should not say that he was at that time under arrest; if he had attempted to leave no doubt be would have been stopped. Dubof told me that on December 10 he had sent money to his sister in Russia; when searched we found on him the Money Order produced, for £1 1s. 6d.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. Rosen's first statement was made on February 2; he speaks broken English; I think he understood all that was said to him. Before arresting him I had made inquiries about him. I showed his photograph to (among others) Mr. Greenberg; he would know that I was making inquiries about Rosen in connection with the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250125"/>
<p>Houndsditch murders, but I should not tell him that Rosen's arrest was contemplated. Rosen did not say, "Have you come to arrest me"; he said, "I know you have come to arrest me." I showed his photograph also to Miss Campbell, to whom he was then engaged, and whom he has since married. When I called upon her she voluntarily gave me Rosen's address. I have made inquiries about Rosen's past history.</p>
<p>Re-examined. On February 7 about 8.15 p.m. I went with another officer and with Richardson to Sidney Street. In Buross Street I saw Vassileva with Mr. and Mrs. and Miss Gordon. I went up to Vassi
<lb/>leva and told her we were police officers and were going to arrest her on suspicion of being concerned in the Houndsditch murders. She appeared to understand what I said; she made no reply. Afterwards I went to 11, Buross Street, and there found a bundle of newspapers, Exhibit 91; some clothing, including Exhibit 92, a woman's three
<lb/>quarter length blue jacket. On February 9 Vassileva was at Bishops
<lb/>gate Police Station, and I had a conversation with her, which was interpreted by Mr. Timotheiff. I told her that she had been identified as the woman who had been living at Exchange Buildings during the fortnight preceding the murders; she said, "I did not live there." I told her that the witnesses alleged that she was seen taking down the shutters there; she said, "I do not know the place." I told her she had been identified as the woman who was with Gardstein, Dubof, and Peters in Cutler Street immediately after the murders. She said, "I do not know the names." I told her it was about 11.30 p.m. on December 16. She said, "I was not there: I was at home." She was then charged with conspiracy to break and enter and steal the goods of Mr. Harris, and with being an accessory after the fact to the murder of Tucker by Gardstein. Her reply was, "I do not know either of those persons or either of those places; it is a false accusation; who accuses me! it is all lies." At this time I did not know anything about the muff afterwards found at 11, Buross Street. It was on February 14 that Levy gave his evidence in regard to Vassileva. When she was arrested her hair was much darker than it is now.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. As to the muff and stole, if they were in Vassi
<lb/>leva's room on December 18 I think I should have found them. The Gordons have relatives living in Sidney Square; I do not know that Vassileva had been watched continuously from December 18 till the time of her arrest. In some of the newspapers in the bundle, Exhibit 91, Peter the Painter is mentioned. I do not suggest that there is no such person as Peter the Painter. It was supposed that he had come from Paris two months before these events, and it was rumoured that he had gone back there.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-484" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-484" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-484" type="surname" value="TIMOTHEIFF"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-484" type="given" value="VASIL"/>VASIL TIMOTHEIFF</persName> </hi>, 26, Tollington Square, spoke to interpreting at Bishopsgate Police Station the conversation between Vassileva and Newell.</p>
<p>Detective-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-485" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-485" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-485" type="surname" value="MCLEAN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-485" type="given" value="HUGH"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">HUGH MCLEAN</hi> </persName>. On February 17 after Vassi
<lb/>leva's arrest I went to 11, Buross Street, and received from Mrs. Gordon the muff and fur produced.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250126"/>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. In the statement made by Federoff when he was charged, he said, "According to what I saw and heard, and informa
<lb/>tion received, I thought I knew Peter the Painter; according to the description I know him."</p>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. After Rosen's arrest I went to his place in Well Street and found there a grey tweed cap.</p>
<p>Inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-486" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-486" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-486" type="surname" value="OTTOWAY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-486" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">JOHN OTTOWAY</hi> </persName>, recalled. In the room on the first floor of No. 11 Exchange Buildings there was a double bed sufficient for two to sleep on; there was a palliasse and two feather pillows, and a table cloth on the bed; there were no sheets or blankets; the bed-quilt was on the table downstairs.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. The absence of proper bedclothes is a common incident with the wretchedly poor people in the East End.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. On the paper handed to me is the name of a firm of London shipping agents doing business with Russia. I have inquired, and found that on November 19 a receipt was given to that firm by P. Morrin for £31 12s. That money had come by telegraph order from Russia. The photograph of Gardstein was taken to the firm, and there is no doubt that Gardstein was Morrin. Of course, the actions and movements of Gardstein from November 1 were of im
<lb/>portance. I do not think this information was given to the Treasury or to the solicitor for the defence. I have conscientiously produced everything that could tell either for or against the prisoners; I have kept nothing back so far as I am aware.</p>
<p>This closed the case for the prosecution.</p>
<p>Mr. Melville, Mr. Bryan, and Mr. Stewart submitted that there was no case to go to the jury as against their respective clients.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham held that with regard to each of the accused the case must go to the jury.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin said that he quite appreciated there was a distinction in point of evidence, or quantum of evidence, between the case of Dubof and that of Peters.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham said he would take care to point out the difference to the jury, but he thought the proper course would be to let the whole case go to the jury.</p>
<p>(Monday, May 8.)</p>
<p>(Defence of
<hi rend="smallCaps">PETERS</hi>.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-487" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-487" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-487" type="surname" value="PETERS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-487" type="given" value="JACOB"/>JACOB PETERS</persName> </hi> (prisoner, on oath). I was born in 1886 in Brinken
<lb/>skia, Courland, Russia. Up to 1905 I was employed as grocer's assis
<lb/>tant in Libau; I then worked as a dock labourer and in a butter fac
<lb/>tory. I became an active member of the Lettish Social Democratic Party, and for about seven years undertook propaganda work in the Army and among the working classes, unpaid; I was brought before a court-martial in Riga, detained for 18 months and acquitted on September 1, 1908. I was still engaged in propaganda work and heard that the police were going to visit me in connection with articles I had</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250127"/>
<p>written in a democratic paper, so I went to Germany, intending to go to the United States, but had not sufficient money. I saved some money, went to join a comrade in. Denmark, and not getting work there, came to London in October, 1909, and lived with my cousin, Fritz Svaars, at 29, Great Garden Street, Whitechapel. Many Russian refugees lived there. I found Fritz had changed in character and I removed to another address, which I have forgotten. On January 26, 1910, I went to learn to be a tailor's presser, working for Muller, 1, Cobbold Road, Mile End, living at Cook Street, Commercial Road. Having learned the trade I worked for Kannenbaum; in July, 1910, went to work for Landau, 2, Steward Street, Spitalfields, and re
<lb/>mained with him in constant work up to the date of my arrest. I went under the name of Kolmin because I was known by name as the secretary of the Lettish Social Democratic Federation and a member of the Working Men's Federated Union, which has branches all over the world, and employers would object to employ me. I was lodging at 236, Brick Lane and afterwards moved to 48, Turner Street, where I was arrested. At my lodgings I always gave my own name. From November, 1910, I attended the London County Council Evening School to learn English. The first night I went to my new lodgings in Turner Street—November 25—I went to a concert at 107, Charlotte Street and adept with a friend, a Mr. Gordon, who lives in the first street on the left-hand side of New Road; I forget the name. Till about 11 p.m. on December 10 I was at the Albert Hall at an Inter
<lb/>national Anti-War Meeting, returning to my lodgings at one a.m. I had told my housekeeper (I forget his name) not to bolt the door so that I should be able to get in with my key. As regards the other evenings, I used to come home regularly from work, and when I was not at the Russian Library at 106, Commercial Road or at the evening school, I used to read at home. On December 16 I went out, as usual, just after seven a.m. and I finished work at 7.30 p.m. I waited for an hour for my wages, as the girls and the Jews were paid first. I think Mr. Landau and the two managers were present, as they gene
<lb/>rally were, when I was paid. On my way home I went to a provision shop facing Turner Street, where I bought some food. I arrived home about nine p.m. I saw my landlord three times that evening. He was going out when I went in. I sat down and read. After a little time I opened the door to him. On the third occasion I saw him he brought in a mousetrap; I believe it was that very evening that I had told the missus about the mice getting at my food and she said she would see to it. We prepared the mousetrap. I then continued reading and went to bed at about 12—my usual time. I got up the next morning at my usual time, and from then I continued working as usual until December 22, when, on returning to my lodgings, I was arrested. I told the police officers I knew nothing of the affair and that I believed that one of the people must be my cousin, because I heard that a dead man was found at his lodgings. I was then taken to the photographer to look for Fritz's photo. On the following day Dubof and I were taken in a cab to Bishopsgate Police Station, where we were placed in a room. (Mr. Bodkin stated that he would not object to this</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250128"/>
<p>evidence, provided he was allowed to call Chief-inspector Hayes and Detective-inspector John Collison, to whom he had understood counsel for the prisoners had stated that they did not desire to put questions. Mr. Melville said he would not carry it further.) The first time I saw Dubof was at the police station. After Fritz and I separated in Great Garden Street I saw him in the street, but I never spoke to him. We never visited each other as we did not know where each other lived. I have been to 59, Grove Street twice, once at the end of November, and again shortly afterwards. I might have seen Gardstein, but per
<lb/>sonally I never knew him. It was Fritz I went to see at Grove Street, as I had a letter from my sister telling me that his mother was very anxious to know about him. Apart from my wages at Mr. Landau's, which was 24s. a week, I had no other money. I do not know where Exchange Buildings is; I have never been there. I was in no way concerned with the conspiracy to break into Harris's shop; the first I knew of it was when a Lettish girl, who worked at my place, was arrested on the Monday. I have never been in a public-house in England. Federof, Dubof, and I never went out together. I only knew Federof once when he visited me at my lodgings.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Leach. I never saw Vassileva at 59, Grove Street. As far as I know, Peter the Painter was never a member of the Social Democratic Party of the Russian Refugees. He may have been a member of the English Association, but I cannot say. I saw him once at Fritz's lodgings.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I am 24 years of age and 5 ft. 6 in. in height. Sometimes I have spots on my face and sometimes not. My moustache was like it is now all the time I was working at Landau's. In winter I wore a coat with a velvet collar. On work
<lb/>ing days I wore a cap and on Sundays a green trilby hat; I have never worn a bowler hat. I was a shop assistant in Russia and then I worked in the docks for a month. I left the shop in 1905 in order to propagate for the Social Democratic Party amongst working men; our theory is not that the proceeds of everybody's work should be shared but that everybody should be paid for his labour. Fritz called himself an anarchist, but he did not know anything about it; I did not say in my statement to the police that he had committed a robbery at a Government wine shop: I said he had done damage there; I was not correctly interpreted. The society of which I am secretary is composed of Letts only. Hoffman is a Lett but he is not a member. Millstein and Trassjonsky and Federof are not Letts. I do not know Josef. I possibly may have met Marx, but I do not know him. Russians have not such a name as Marx. Exhibit 76 is a photo of Gardstein. I think I have seen him at 29, Great Garden Street; he lived with Fritz; but they did not live there when I was living there. I do not know him. I have not seen this man (Exhibit 144, Marx). In this group (Exhibit 114) there is a man similar to Peter the Painter, but he had no beard; he lived with Fritz. I do not know the name of my landlord at 28, Turner Street; I took no interest in him; I spoke to him very little. I did not notice his name when he was called at the police court. I told him on the first night</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250129"/>
<p>I was at his house, November 25, that I was going to a concert and ball, but I do not remember whether I told him where it was going to be. I do not know Toynbee Hall. I asked him on that night not to bolt the door; that and the night of December 10 are the only times I have done so. I first heard of the Houndsditch shooting on the Saturday night, I think. I did not speak to my landlady, Bluma Abrahams, about it. I remember Philip Abrahams saying at the police court on March 5 that his wife could not come and give evidence; I think he said it was because she was not well. It may be that he said she had gone out shopping that very morning, but the shop is only just opposite. Before I was identified each time I stood in the row where I pleased as I was told I might do so. I was not asked afterwards whether I had any complaint to make as to the manner in which my identification had been conducted. It was not three o'clock in the morning when we arrived in a cab; there were plenty of people in the street and on the pavement, but I did not notice who they were. There were also plenty of people in the passage—men and women. I do complain about my identification; our clothes were dirty, our hair uncombed, our faces unwashed, and we had no clean collars, and everybody could recognise the place where we had come from. There were two classes of people, one dressed very nicely and the other dressed ordinarily with handkerchiefs round their necks. I had nothing round my neck. The half day that I missed work at Landau's was August Bank Holiday, but I do not remember the other half day in August; I was ill-that afternoon. I did not get my full money. I do not know whether a time-sheet was kept at Landau's; there is a manager there who would know whether I was at work or not. For overtime we got paid the same day; if we missed half a day it would be deducted at the end of the week. I was known as "Kolnin" there. At the L.C.C. school I gave my name as Peters; I cannot help it if the people there spelt it as "Pitter." When working for my party in Russia my name was "Svornoff."</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I have never seen Peter the Painter. I was never at the Jubilee Street Club.</p>
<p>Re-examined. In Russia when you work among the party it is well known you have many names. I never bought any asbestos from a man named Craigie.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-488" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-488" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-488" type="surname" value="GOLDSTEIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-488" type="given" value="SIMON"/>SIMON GOLDSTEIN</persName> </hi>, teacher, L.C.C. Evening Schools, Commercial Road, E. In my register (Exhibit 137) produced I have the name of "Pitter" as attending the English class on Wednesday, November 2. He continued to attend on Mondays, Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thurs
<lb/>days until December 6." Pitter" is Peters; I mistook his pronuncia
<lb/>tion of his name. On December 1 he was present from 8 to 10 p.m.; he must have been there at least from 8.15 p.m. to be on the register; there are two marks; if he had gone before 10 he would have lost his second mark. He attended regularly with the exception of Novem
<lb/>ber 28, when he did not attend.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250130"/>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. He started in the lowest class, and then went on to the second. They are mostly Jews who attend; they are free classes and mostly foreigners attend. If a pupil wanted to go before the end of the lesson he would tell me.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-489" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-489" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-489" type="surname" value="ABRAHAMS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-489" type="given" value="PHILIP"/>PHILIP ABRAHAMS</persName> </hi>, 48, Turner Street, E. Last Monday my wife had a baby and she is unable to come here. Peters lodged at my house for a month before December 22, occupying the front room on the ground floor. I occupied the back room. He went out about 7.30 a.m. and returned at 8.30 p.m. The first night that he came and took lodgings, November 25, he said he would be sleeping out; he did not ask me to do anything about the door. Generally when he came home he used to read the papers; sometimes he went out, but he was always in before 11. On one night he told me not to bolt the door as he would be out late. On the night of December 16 I left the house at 10.5 p.m., leav
<lb/>ing him reading. He had gone to work that morning as usual at 7.30 a.m. and returned between 8.30 and 9 p.m. I was going to the Christmas Club when he came home, and I saw him again on returning home.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I remember I said at the police court on March 15 that my wife was just about to be confined and could not come and give evidence, and I remember saying that she had been out that day and the day before. I know she made a state
<lb/>ment to the police on December 23, and what she said. I did not talk to her about where Peters was on the 16th. I first heard of the Houns-ditch murders on Sunday, December 18, I think. I talked about it to Peters on the Sunday, but not after that date. After his arrest I and my wife talked together about the time he came home on the night of the 16th. My wife is up and goes about the room, but she is very weak. She went out very seldom before the baby was born. She could not come and give evidence on March 15. It is true that she went out shopping on that day, but the shop is just opposite. She told me on the 23rd that Peters came home about 8.30 or 9 p.m. on December 16. I remember December 16 because I withdrew money from the Christmas Club; I only do that once a year. I produce a notice saying that money will be shared out on the 16th. I have thrown away the book where it says I withdrew the money. On November 25 Peters said he was going to a club; I believe he said Toynbee Hall. I left the door un
<lb/>bolted for him then, and he came in at 2 a.m., but I never heard him. He came home the night that he said he was going to a concert and ball; he never told me that he slept with a friend. I do not know that he went to the Albert Hall on December 10; I do not know what time he came in that night. I always bolt the door. I spent the night of December 16 in a public house with Koblinski.</p>
<p>Re-examined. My wife has been in an asylum, and I had some anxiety during the period she has been passing through.</p>
<p>
<persName id="t19110425-name-490" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-490" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-490" type="surname" value="JONAS"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-490" type="given" value="LOUIS COLEMAN"/>Louis
<hi rend="smallCaps">COLEMAN JONAS</hi> </persName>, manager, Landau and Sons, wholesale tailors, 1 and 2, Stewart Street, Spitalfields. Peters had been employed by my firm as a presser since the middle of July last, his hours being from 8 a.m. to 1, and from 2 to 7.30, and on Saturdays from 8 to 2. He</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250131"/>
<p>has missed two afternoons from the time of his entering our employ until he was arrested on December 22. This wages book (Exhibit 138) bears that out; he missed one half-day in the week ending August 19, and he missed again in August. We found him a very good workman.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. The list of money at the side shows that he missed in the week ending the 19th. I see that there is the same money, too, for two weeks before. It may be later on; I have not examined the book carefully. The book is not of much importance; the wages are entered in it only to carry over into the cash book. It may be that Peters's name is in it for three weeks after he was arrested, and it is possible that money that he should have received was put against his name on two of those weeks because there is nobody there to inform the lady clerk that he was not in. It is generally entered up on the following Monday. I do not keep any time-sheets. If workmen miss in the afternoon they bring it down to the following Friday; a Miss Marks, another young lady, does that. She is not here. I cannot say that I have any pieces of paper from which Peters's times were entered in December.</p>
<p>Re-examined. Overtime is paid on the same night. This is the best evidence I can produce as to the wages paid to the men. We employ 80 or 90 men, and we regard this book as an efficient test as to the attendance of the men.</p>
<p>(Tuesday, May 9.)</p>
<p>(Defence of Dubof.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-491" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-491" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-491" type="surname" value="DUBOF"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-491" type="given" value="ZURKA"/>ZURKA DUBOF</persName> </hi> (prisoner, on oath). My proper name is Zurka Laiyyn; I am a political refugee from Russia; for that reason I changed my name. I am 24 years of age, and the son of a small farmer; and I worked on the farm till I was 18 years of age and then I went to Riga to learn the painting trade; I stayed in Riga till the autumn of 1905 and then returned to the farm. I was a member of the Lettish Social and Dramatic Working Organisation; I was arrested in connection with this agitation and was punished with nagiakas, or Cossacks' whips. I came to this country in June, 1907, and stayed at 505, Commercial Road; I only stayed in London four days and then went to America; I stayed there a fortnight and then went to New Jersey; I came back to England in April, 1909. On that occasion I went to live with my brother in Whitechapel. In June, 1909, I went back to Riga; I returned to England again in January, 1910, and went to live at 72, Wellesley Street, Steney. I found work on this occa
<lb/>sion and met Beckov at work; the work came to an end, and I went to Switzerland and returned again on September 20. I went to live at 20, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush, where I lived till my arrest. At this time I was working for Messrs. Turpin, 17, Berners Street, as a painter on a job at the Savoy Hotel; my landlord, Mr. Petter, and Beckov were working on the same job; I worked there all days of the week including Sundays; that job came to an end on October 19.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250132"/>
<p>I was next employed on regular work at the Dieudonne Hotel about November 15 or 16; after finishing at the Savoy, and before I. started at the Dieudonne, I assisted my landlord painted signboards. I finished at the Dieudonne on December 12 with Beckov as we had no work to do. On Saturday, December 10, I was working at the Duidonne till one o'clock; after leaving work I went to a post-office and remitted one guinea to my sister in Russia; then Beckov and I went to have dinner; after dinner we went to the British Museum; we went to Tottenham Court Road station, and there we separated. I got home after four; I remained at home that evening; Beckov came home about nine, and remained at home the rest of the evening. I remained at home on the evening of Monday, 12th; I remember Mr. and Mrs. Schaffer and Mr. Scheurig calling that evening. The next day Beckov and I went to the Millwall Docks on a Russian steamer to see Tchukst, the cook, on board the steamer Irkutsk; all three of us went to a public-house near by; we left Tchukst at 11 o'clock. I left Beckov in the afternoon and went to 59, Grove Street; I went there to meet Peter the Painter with regard to painting some decora
<lb/>tions at a balalaika performance which they were going to give. I left Grove Street some time after five and went back to Millwall Docks and saw Tchukst; I left him at about 10; I had had a good bit to drink and my head was aching, so I went back to Grove Street and stayed there all night. I got to Shepherd's Bush the next morning about nine; I did not go out at all that day, I was painting pictures; I slept at home that night. On the Thursday I was painting the picture produced (Exhibit 55); I did not go out that day; on the Friday I was engaged in finishing this picture and sticking it on that board; I had dinner at home that day. I went out about quarter to two and went to Grove Street to see Peter the Painter with regard to the decoration work, and also with regard to some other work; Peter the Painter had told me that he would have some other painting work, to paint a certain house. When I arrived at Grove Street I found there Luba Millstein, Fritz, Peter the Painter, Rosen, Hoff
<lb/>man, Federof, Josef, and Marx; I stayed till four o'clock; I was not in the house all the time; I went with Millstein to help her carry some linen to the laundry; I was out for about seven minutes. After I left Grove Street I went home and did not go out again that evening; I went to bed about half-past 11. I have never been in Exchange Buildings; I have never been in "The Three Nuns" public-house with Gardstein; or at Aldgate with Federof and Peters; I have never been in Cutler Street with Vassileva. I know Hoffman, and have been to his rooms; I have never seen Gardstein there. The time-sheets produced bear my signature; I make the time-sheet up, and it is countersigned by the foreman. I have never seen Richardson to my knowledge till I saw him at the police-court proceedings. I have never had a gold watch or pawned one; the black watch produced is my watch; the pawn-ticket signed "C. Somerfold" is not in my hand
<lb/>writing. I did not know of any conspiracy to break into Harris's shop. I first knew I was wanted in connection with the Houndsditch</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250133"/>
<p>murders through the newspapers on December 21 or 22; I was going to take some work on the 23rd, but Petter told me I had better stop at home as the police looking out for me might go to the place where I was working.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I know the East End of London pretty well. I gave a statement in English to the police officer, but he did not understand me and I did not understand him. I became acquainted with Fritz about two years ago; he came to where I was lodging to visit a man named Alprosit; I have met him from time to time since, but not very often. When I was arrested Mrs. Petter acted as interpreter; I did not say through Mrs. Petter that I had never been to Grove Street; I said I had been to Grove Street; I did not mention the names of Frits and Peter the Painter; I saw the inspector writing something down as Mrs. Petter was interpreting. I made another statement at Old Jewry; I said then I did know Fritz and Peter the Painter; the game inspector took down what I said; he did not understand me and I did not understand him; I asked three times for an interpreter but I was not given one. It is not true that I only went to Grove Street once before and then could not get in. To-day is the first time I have ever said that I slept the night of the 13th at Grove Street in Peter the Painter's room. On Friday, 16th, I went out with Luba Millstein to the laundry at about quarter past three; if Luba Millstein says she went to the laundry-at half past one she is mistaken; it is not true that we parted at the laundry and she got back about two o'clock, or that Dubof returned shortly after her; he came before her. The laundry is in Commercial Road; I do not know Whitechapel; I do not know Laymans', the pawnbrokers in Whitechapel Road; I do not know how long it would take from the laundry to Whitechapel Road. After I left the laundry I went to a place near Grove Street to get some cigarettes and then went straight back to Grove Street. I know Trassjonsky; I cannot explain how that pawnticket came to No. 10, Settles Street, where she was living. On December 16 I was in the back room at Grove Street with her, Hoffman, Rosen, and Federof having tea; Gardstein was there that afternoon; I met him in a club in Jubilee Street two years ago; I do not know who he is or. what he is; I have seen him about twice since I returned from Switzer
<lb/>land; I cannot say how long he stopped there for. I know Newcastle Place; I have seen Fritz there two or three times. I do not know that the furniture from Newcastle Place went to Grove Street; I did not notice it when I slept there that night. I know Mr. Woolf Braun; it is not true that he has seen Fritz, Gardstein, Rosen, and myself at his house together; I have not seen Gardstein at that house at all; I have seen Luba Millstein at other times but not together. I have known Vassileva for about a year and two months; she used to live in the same street as I did, Wellesley Street; I knew her in Buross Street; I have been there two or three times to buy cigarettes. I have had this suit of clothes two years; it is from Russia. It is not true that I was in Exchange Buildings on the Sunday before the 16th.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250134"/>
<p>I do not know whether Fritz, Vassileva, or Trassjonsky have been to Exchange Buildings. I do not know Peters; I may have seen him a year ago at the Russian Library; I did not know he was a cousin of Fritz. On December 11 I did not work; I stopped at home; it was Sunday; I worked on Monday, 12th; I did not work on Tuesday, 13th. Mr. Scheurig used to come to the Petter's house twice a week and the Schaffers as well. I know Beckov, we were not great friends; we worked together. I know Shepherd's Bush a little; I know Uxbridge Road; I do not know if there is a large colony of foreigners there; I do not read an English newspaper; there is a shop in Uxbridge where foreign newspapers are sold, but Russian newspapers cannot be obtained there. I can speak a little German but cannot read German; I have never bought any newspapers. I do not know Houndsditch. When I was out of work from October 19 to November 15 I was in the neighbourhood of Shepherd's Bush; I never went out only to buy tobacco. I do not recognise the bag produced; I do not carry a bag in England only when I go from one station to another. I have known Rosen for more than a year; I did not go about with him at all. I have been in the street once with Fritz but not with any of the others. None of the time-sheets produced of the Dieudonne are in my hand
<lb/>writing; some of the writing on the time-sheets of the Savoy job is in my writing; the words "Shepherd's Bush" is my writing; the "s" in Shepherd's Bush and the "s" in Somerfold on the pawn
<lb/>ticket is similar to mine, but I did not write it; I have never pawned anything in England except a guitar. The gold watch (produced) is not mine, I have never seen it before.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. I have seen Vassileva in two different places—Wellesley Street and Buross Street. I made her acquaintance by constantly buying cigarettes off her. Pearlman was the landlord at Wellesley Street. I recognise in this group produced to me the photographs of old Mr. Pearlman, Miss Pearlman, and Gard-stein, whom I knew as Morountzeff. Written on the back of it is "To dear Nina from the 'wicked' Fenia." Miss Pearlman was called "Fenia." In Russia it is dangerous for it to be known that you are in communication with political refugees. The speeches at the Jubilee Street Club were mostly on astronomy and other things. I never heard Peter the Painter make a speech there. I do not know any
<lb/>body who used to visit the club. I cannot say if Vassileva was a girl who was very much distressed concerning the position of poor people in Russia; I did not speak to her much. I do not know that the Pearl
<lb/>man's lived at one time in Great Garden Street. The club is called "The Working Men's Club," and it is also called "The Anarchists' Club." Fritz had a suit which was similar to mine, and I think Peter the Painter also wore a brown tweed suit with broad dark stripes, which I do not think were more visible than those in mine.</p>
<p>Further cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I lived at the Pearlman's house in Wellesley Street for over a month. Gardstein, Dubof, Hoff
<lb/>man, Rosen, and Vassileva did not frequent the house. I have seen Gardstein twice only at the club, and later on at Grove Street. I was living with the Pearlman's at the time I met Gardstein at the club.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250135"/>
<p>I did not meet Peters at the Pearlman's; Vassileva lived there; Rosen visited the landlord there twice; Masha and Millstein did not come there.</p>
<p>Re-examined. It is not true that when the police officer came he said, "I am a police officer, and am making inquiries about the Houndsditch murders"; at the time he came I was in the kitchen and he was talking to the landlady. The landlady then had a conversation with me. I have only lived in the East End about 3 1/2 months altogether.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-492" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-492" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-492" type="surname" value="SCHAFER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-492" type="given" value="FRANZ"/>FRANZ SCHAFER</persName> </hi>, 36, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush. I knew Dubof as a lodger at 20, Galloway Road. Between six and 6.30 p.m. on December 10 I went there with Scheurig to see Mrs. Petter. I saw her, her husband, and Dubof. My wife was not with us. We stayed till about 11.30 p.m. Dubof did not go out while I was there. Beckov came in about nine. We all had supper when my wife and Mrs. Petter returned from shopping. Dubof was there when we left. On the following day, Sunday, I had a visit from a friend named Gertz at Woolwich and I did not go round to the Petter's; I do not remember what sort of day it was. On the next evening Scheurig and I were working late and we did not get home till nine p.m. We went round to the Petters' about 9.30. We saw the Petters and Dubof. It was on the Sunday after this that Mancini called upon me.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. Scheurig is in the same electrical company as I. For the last eight weeks I have been calling at the Petters' house four or five times a week in company with my wife; I was not calling frequently in December. The reason why these evenings are impressed on my memory is that I was working late nearly every evening for a Mr. Zobodski, giving him a hand with his business, and I was very seldom round at the Petters' as I had not got time. The reason I can fix the 10th particularly is that on the 22nd or 23rd Inspector Newell called on me and asked me what I knew about Dubof, and I could fix the date by going back. Mr. and Mrs. Scheu
<lb/>rig, Newell and I talked the matter over. If I went round to the Petters' on December 11, it was only for a few minutes, but I was not there to my knowledge. I am giving the times of day I went to the Petters' entirely from memory.</p>
<p>Re-examined. Newell told me he had come about the Hounsditch murders and that caused me to think of all the times I had seen Dubof.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-493" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-493" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-493" type="surname" value="SCHAFFER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-493" type="given" value="MARIE"/>MARIE SCHAFFER</persName> </hi>, wife of last witness, corroborated her husband's evidence as to seeing Dubof at the Petters' house on the evening of December 10, and added: At 8.30 a.m. on December 16, I went round to the Petters' house for breakfast, and there saw Mrs. Petter, Dubof, and I think, Beckov. I left and went there again at 11 a.m., and gave her the key to my house so that she should look after my baby, whom I had left alone in the house while I was going to the school to see my children. I came back to her at about dinner-time, 12 o'clock, to fetch the key, and I saw Dubof. I remember him asking Mrs. Petter for some white paint.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250136"/>
<p>Cross-examined. When I returned to Mrs. Petter for the key, I stayed about 10 minutes. I do not think I saw her again that day. I see her nearly every day; we are only a few doors apart. For more than six months I have been intimate with her. On December 11 there was a party at the Petters', to which my husband and I, Mansigny Dubof and, I think, Beckov went. I left before my husband.</p>
<p>Re-examined. When calling on the Petters I saw Dubof a lot of fstimes.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-494" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-494" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-494" type="surname" value="GEISSLER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-494" type="given" value="JACOB"/>JACOB GEISSLER</persName> </hi>, grocer, 143, Greyhound Road, Fulham. Every Friday and Monday I call on Mrs. Petter for orders. Between 11 and 12 a.m. on Friday, December 16, I called and Mrs. Petters told me to go into the kitchen. I there saw Dubof smoking a pipe; I had seen him about three times before. The next day for calling, Mon
<lb/>day, I called and saw him again.</p>
<p>Cross-examined. I have been calling regularly for 12 months past. I remember it was the 16th that I saw him, because it was on that night that the outrage happened.</p>
<p>Re-examined. That was the first time I had seen him for several weeks. A few days after I saw in the papers that he was one of the men who were arrested.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-495" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-495" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-495" type="surname" value="RAMSDEN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-495" type="given" value="ETHEL"/>ETHEL RAMSDEN</persName> </hi>, 18, Galloway Road. Since the February of last year I have known Dubof. On the night of December 16, at about 7.30 to 8, I was standing at my door when Mrs. Petter opened her door with the key, and as the door opened I saw Dubof going up
<lb/>stairs. I said "Good evening." Mrs. Petters remarked what a windy night it was. Two or three days after I heard he had been arrested. My house is next door to the Petters' house.</p>
<p>Cross-examined. In these houses you can open the front door with your foot on the bottom stair. I was standing at my gate, which is about four or five feet from the door, and as Mrs. Petter opened her door wide I could see through it. I am sure it was Dubof, because he turned round as I said "Good evening"; he did not answer because he does not speak English very well.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-496" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-496" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-496" type="surname" value="SCHEURIG"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-496" type="given" value="PAUL"/>PAUL SCHEURIG</persName> </hi>, 36, Galloway Road, who stated that he had known Dubof two months before December, corroborated Franz Schaffer's evidence as to Dubof being at the Petters' house on the night of December 10, and added: On the evening of December 16 I came with Schaffer from work at about 10. We had dinner, and then I went to buy some bottles of beer. Petter's dog followed me, and after I had got the beer I went to Petter's door, and knocked. Beckov opened the door and I let the dog in. I saw Dubof and Petter wash
<lb/>ing in the scullery. I saw him again on the 18th, but not after that. I first learnt that he was arrested on the Wednesday or Thursday.</p>
<p>Cross-examined. I must have seen him washing several times. The dog always follows me in the street. I often went to the Petters' house, but I never went before seven or eight.</p>
<p>Re-examined. I have not knocked at the door at that time other nights. I do not bring the dog home in this way very often.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250137"/>
<p>(Wednesday, May 10.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-497" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-497" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-497" type="surname" value="PETTER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-497" type="given" value="CHRISTIAN WILHELM"/>CHRISTIAN WILHELM PETTER</persName> </hi>, painter, 20, Galloway Road. In the early part of 1910 Dubof worked with me at the same firm; he was introduced me as Bechov. Beckov and Dubof worked with me on a job at Claridge's Hotel for three or four weeks. He went away to Switzerland and came back in September; he was then on a job with me at the Savoy Hotel up to October 19. He came to live with me at 20, Galloway Road, sharing Beckov's room. After the finish of the Savoy job I carried on private work on my own; Dubof gave me a hand on November 10, 11, and 12. He did signboards at home for me. From November 15 till December 12, Dubof, Beckov and I were working regularly on a job at the Dieudonne Hotel. We nearly always left home together, and came home together. On December 12 Dubof was discharged because the plasterers were not ready for the painting work to be gone on with. I continued on, and when I got home at night I always used to find Dubof at home. On December 10, a Saturday, I came home by myself at one o'clock, midday; Dubof and Beckov went off somewhere together. Dubof came back at four or five. Later on Mr. and Mrs. Schaffer and Mr. Scheurig came, and the whole lot of us were together until late that night. On December 11 Dubof did not go out at all; it was foggy weather; Mr. Mancini came about dinner-time and stayed till II. I remember the night of December 16. I met Dubof about 8 or 8.15. That day I went to Chiswick to fetch an overcoat from my tailor's. I produce my tailor's account with that date marked on it. I got home at a quarter past eight, and found there Dubof and Beckov and my wife. The Schaffers and Mr. and Mrs. Scheurig came in. We all had supper; Dubof was at home the whole of that night. On December 17, I think, Dubof went out in the afternoon. On Monday the 19th I went to work as usual; coming home, I saw the name of "Zurka" on the placards, and something about the Houndsditch affair. Always calling Dubof "Zurka," I was surprised, and I bought a paper. When I got home I told Dubof about it, and he asked me to read the paper to him. He was to have gone to work again at the Dieudonne on the 20th; we talked it over, and decided that in case the police might want him he should stay at home. He wanted to go himself to the police. I noticed no difference in Dubof after the murders Between September 26 and October 19, on the Savoy job, he would be working 10 hours a day or more—sometimes very late at night, and on Sundays. I do not think he would have had any chance to go down to the East End. The same thing applies to the period between November 15 and Decem
<lb/>ber 12.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I never heard Dubof mention the names of Fritz, Gardstein, Rosen, Morountzeff, Vassileva, Millstein, or Trassjonsky; I do not know that he knew anybody at 59, Grove Street. His usual language with me was Russian; he cannot speak much English.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250138"/>
<p>Re-examined. I only remember Dubof staying out all night on December 3, his birthday, and on the 13th.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-498" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-498" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-498" type="surname" value="MANCINI"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-498" type="given" value="HENRY"/>HENRY MANCINI</persName> </hi>, hat manufacturer, 44, Spencer Street, Goswell Road, confirmed Petter's statement as to the party on December 11; the witness saw Dubof at the Petters' the whole of that evening.</p>
<p>Mrs.
<hi rend="smallCaps">PETTER</hi> corroborated her husband's evidence. She said that on December 15 Dubof was at home painting the picture (Exhibit 55). On the 16th he was in his room and about the house all the morning; after dinner, about two o'clock, he went out, saying he was going to take his picture to a friend; he came back between six and half past, and did not go out again. The witness had seen Dubof with a black watch, never with a gold watch; she had never seen him with a revolver or cartridges.</p>
<p>Cross-examined. We keep pretty regular hours. One day is very much like another; the visits of the Schaffers and the Scheurigs to our house are pretty frequent. When Dubof stayed away on the night of December 13 he told me he had slept with a friend; he did not say where. In my statement to Inspector Newell I am taken down as saying, "On Saturdays after returning home from work, he washed and dressed himself, and went out usually from five to seven, and on several Saturdays he did not come home all night." This is a mistake. He only stayed out twice whilst he was at our house. On the occasion of Dubof's arrest on the 22nd I translated between him and Inspector Newell; Dubof said, "I have never been to 59, Grove Street; neither do I know Fritz or Peter the Painter."</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-499" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-499" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-499" type="surname" value="BECKOV"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-499" type="given" value="HANS"/>HANS BECKOV</persName> </hi>, painter, 20, Galloway Road, Shepherd's Bush, corro
<lb/>borated generally the evidence of Mr. and Mrs. Petter as to Dubof's movements.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-500" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-500" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-500" type="surname" value="MILLSTEIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-500" type="given" value="LUBA"/>LUBA MILLSTEIN</persName> </hi>, 6, North Place, Buxton Street. I was charged at the Guildhall with Fritz, Petters, Rosen, Vassileva, Hoffman, and Federof, and I was acquitted; I was then called as a witness for the defence. In December I was living at 59, Grove Street. On the 13th, I think, Dubof' slept there in the front room with Peter the Painter. He was then drunk. On December 16 Dubof, Rosen, and Hoffman came to the house. Dubof had with him Exhibit 55. Tocmakoff, Fritz, and Peter the Painter were there. In the afternoon they were playing chess and music. I had to go out with some washing; I told Fritz I could not carry it; he asked Dubof to assist me, and Dubof and I went to the laundry together. I had to wait at the laundry, and Dubof left me there. When I got back to No. 59 Dubof was there; I cannot remember what time he left. Later that night Trassjonsky and I went to see some living pictures. On re
<lb/>turning she and I were staying in the back room; Fritz and Trass
<lb/>jonsky lived there together. About midnight I heard two people coming upstairs. On my going to the front room door and knocking Fritz told me I must not come in. A little later the men left and I went with Trassjonsky into the front room and there saw the body of Gardstein lying on the bed. I heard a conversation between Fritz and Trossjonsky. Fritz told her that Morountzeff was wounded</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250139"/>
<p>and asked her to put cold water to his side. Shortly afterwards I went to Hoffman's room in Lindley Street. Fritz and Federof and Peters were there. I heard Fritz say that he carried Gardstein like a baby; also that he wanted to leave him near Commercial Road, but he started screaming. I saw a revolver in Federof's hand; I had seen no other revolvers that night.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. I have known Vassileva for some time; she used to go to the club in Jubilee Street; Peter the Painter used to go to the club, and there were political speeches there. I never saw Peter the Painter with firearms. (Shown the photograph (Exhibit 103a) of the girl Masha.) I never spoke to her; but I have seen her at the club; I have seen her wearing a collar and muff and scarf similar to these produced. Peter the Painter had a key to 59, Grove Street. Besides Fritz, Marx, Federof, and Morountzeff I saw no one else come to the house on the night of the 16th.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I have been seeing Vassileva for about two years; I never saw her in company with Peter the Painter and I never had any conversation with her. At one time I lived at Newcastle Place with Fritz; Dubof came there a little; Rosen used to come often; Gardstein and Hoffman also called there; I have seen Vassileva in conversation with Fritz; Dubof used to call a little at 59, Grove Street, after eight o'clock at night; I think he came to see Fritz, also Peter the Painter. Trassjonsky never went out with any of the men who came to 59, Grove Street; so far as I know she did not know Vassileva. When I went out with the washing I think it was about two o'clock; in my evidence at the police court I said I thought about 1.30 that I went out and that I got back about two. I am sure I saw him in the house before I went to the laundry; he was in the room with Rosen, Hoffman, Fritz, Peter the Painter, Tocmakoff, Marx, and Josef. In my statement to Inspector Thompson I said it was about 12.30 that I first went into the back room where Dubof was with the others; so that Dubof would be there an hour or so before he and I went out. Before December 16 I had never seen a pistol or dagger in the place. I know that on the 17th, when the police came, they found a quantity of cartridges, iron bars, and so on in the room. I cannot say how they came there. I remember Marx about three o'clock that afternoon bringing in a long narrow packet done up in paper; I should think Dubof was there then. At the end of July Fritz and I became bad friends, and he left me; in a fortnight he came back; he then had several watches; Gardstein gave him another watch; Exhibit 155 is the watch Gardstein gave Fritz. Fritz gave me a watch which I let him have back to pawn; that was shortly before December 16. If the watch was found in Vassileva's possession I cannot explain how it got there. As to the pawnticket being found upon Trassjonsky, Trassjonsky told me that Gardstein gave her the ticket when he was lying wounded. Rosen usually came to 59, Grove Street, in the evening.</p>
<p>To Mr. Leach. It was after our quarrel that Fritz gave me this watch; I never saw Vassileva wearing this watch.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250140"/>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-501" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-501" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-501" type="surname" value="BACKX"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-501" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>JOSEPH BACKX</persName> </hi>, job foreman, Turpin and Company, 17, Berner's Street, W. Dubof was employed by my firm at work on the Savoy Hotel in the autumn of last year. I produce his time-sheets (Exhibit 140) for that job from September 26 to October 19. They are made out by him and countersigned by me and I send them to the office. I make out separate time-sheets myself to check his. We start work at 7 a.m. and I have to see that all the men come in and if he comes late to book him late. There is an hour's interval for dinner. He left work at 6 p.m. Exhibit 140 shows that he worked 15 hours on October 1 and 16 hours on October 2 and on the following Saturday and Sunday we worked 15 hours each day. The second half of Exhibit 140 are the time-sheets made out by him for the Dieudonne job and show that from November 15 to December 12 he was con
<lb/>tinuuously at work except Sundays and that he left work at 1 p.m. on Saturdays. Exhibit 141 are the time-sheets I made out myself for that job, and neither Exhibit 140 nor Exhibit 141 show that he was absent at any time. We found him a steady, good workman. We asked for him on December 18, but found he had been arrested. He left work on December 12 because we had to wait for the drying time up of the premises; the work was behind time.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. The only three Sundays he worked were October 2, 9, and 16. It is true that the time-sheets only give the number of hours he has worked and not the times he started and left off work, but I was there to see the men did not arrive late or leave work before the proper time. They never worked all night although there may have been a few hours' overtime. If a man worked at night he would not come on so early in the morning; he would be booked in next day and might make his 10 hours up although he did not begin at seven. The 15 1/2 hours on the Wednesday does imply that he started work at seven.</p>
<p>Re-examined. The ordinary time is 10 hours a day. If a man works overtime he is paid according to the time; he is paid time and quarter from six to eight and so on; so he really works less time than appears on the time-sheets. It is my duty to see that the men come and leave at the proper time. Dubof always attended regularly.</p>
<p>(Defence of Rosen.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-502" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-502" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-502" type="surname" value="ROSEN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-502" type="given" value="JOHN"/>JOHN ROSEN</persName> </hi> (prisoner, on oath). I understand English a bit, but not much. I am a hairdresser and reside at 112 Well Street, Hackney; I was born at Riga; I am 26 years old, and my father's name was Tzelin. I came to this country in January, 1909, adopted the name of "Rosen," and entered the employment of a hairdresser named Strosch at High Street, Poplar. I was there about 10 months. I then went to live at 29, Great Garden Street, where I stayed about two weeks. I then went to 27, Dockhead, Bermondsey, where I entered the employ of Weinberg, a hairdresser. I remained there until about August last year. Whilst working there I returned several times to my lodgings at Great Garden Street, where I was friendly with the</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250141"/>
<p>family. I became acquainted in this way with Fritz, Hoffman, and Peters. Fritz is no relation of mine, and I bad never seen him before I saw him there for the last time just after Christmas, 1909; I next saw him last summer in Hoffman's room at 36, Lindley Street; I sometimes visited him after that at 35 (or 39), Newcastle Place, and also at 59, Grove Street. I visited Hoffman at Lindley Street also, when I used to see him in company with Fritz, Wolff, Braun, and many others; I have seen Fritz there two or three times; he used to play the mandolin, which I also could play. I think he is an actor, I have seen him sing at the Union Club. I knew him to be a kind man; I did not know that he was engaged in criminal practices. After leaving Dockhead in August, 1910, I went to manage a barber's shop for Weinberg, who had bought another business at 112, Well Street, Hackney; I took all the receipts; the shop was not in very good order, and I went there to work it up. For about four months a boy was working with me; I do not know his address; he left about six or eight weeks before Christmas. The premises consist of the shop and a small room at the back in which I slept. From the time I went there until I was arrested I never slept anywhere else. Weinberg sold the business to Wilcin on December 5, and on December 12 Wilcin came to live there. In the first week in December I was living there alone, with a boy to help in the evenings. I was never out as early as 8 a.m. because I was working late; I was never in Houndsditch during that week, or in any week as early as 8 a.m. I opened the shop at 8 a.m. every day. Between 10 and 11 a.m. on December 5, Wilcin came and stayed till dinner time, when he went out for an hour or so. He then came back and stayed till I closed the shop. The rent collector also called between 11 and 12 a.m. I did not leave the shop at all that day; I sent to a coffee shop for my food. I do not think I was out any evening that week except Thursday. I usually went out on Thursday evenings, because I closed my shop at 2 p.m. and went to see Miss Campbell, who is now my wife. I was with her this evening until about 11 p.m., and I then came home. On December 12 I opened the shop at the usual time and closed at 9.30 p.m. I did not go out at all that day. The rent collector came in the morning, and then just after dinner came an old man from Weinberg's son to fetich his bed away. Between 4 and 5 p.m. Wilcin came. I was not in Houndsditch at all that day; I have never seen the place. I never saw Dubof or any of the other people on that day. I did not go out at all on the following day, the 13th. In the afternoon Janson came with two other men, and about 5 p.m. Wilcin came there to stay; he slept in the same room as me, and continued to do so from that day. I did not go out at all on the day he came, neither did I go out the following day, the 14th, because on that day I stopped in bed nearly all day because I was not feeling very well. Wilcin was there all that day. On the next day, the 15th, I felt still queer and did not work. I did not leave the house; I got up about 1 or 2 p.m. In the evening I went to see Miss Campbell; I married her two days before I was arrested. Whilst with her I met none of the people said</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250142"/>
<p>to be concerned in this affair. I left her shortly before 11 p.m. and went home. I did not leave home again that night. Just after 1 p.m. on the following day, the 16th, I went out and met Hoffman in Com
<lb/>mercial Road, and, in consequence of something he said, I went to 59, Grove Street, arriving there about 2 p.m.; Hoffman said he was going to see Fritz, and as I knew Fritz also I went with him. I saw there Fritz, Peter the Painter, Millstein, and Trassjonsky. As far as I know the others arrived afterwards. I am not sure about Tocmakoff. I played chess with Peter the Painter. There was no discussion in my presence about a robbery at Exchange Buildings; I never heard such talk in Fritz's room. I left about 4 or 5 p.m. and went with Hoffman to a picture show in Whitechapel Road; Hoffman is the man I refer to in my statement as "Masais." I left him at his door in Lindley Street at about 9.30 and went home. I did not go out again that evening except to go across the road to a fish shop to get some food I slept as usual with Wilcin. I did not know that anybody contem
<lb/>plated committing a robbery that night. I have never been in Exchange Buildings, and do not know where they are. I have never worn a cap in England. I have never carried a bag in Houndsditch, and I have not see the two bags (produced) before these proceedings. I made two statements to Inspector Newell, the second of which was true. I have never walked with Gardstein or Vassileva in the street, and I have never gone with Gard
<lb/>stein or Dubof to see her in Buross Street, although I have been several times with Hoffman. I did not go to see anybody especially. Fritz was a fellow-countryman of mine, and in the autumn I used to visit him at Newcastle Place, sometimes once a week and sometimes not for two weeks. When he left there to go to 59, Grove Street I saw him four or five times there. I never agreed with him or anyone else to commit a robbery. I have never been a member of any Anar
<lb/>chist club, but I went two or three times to the Jubilee Street Club the first year I was in England; I have never been since. In Russia I was a member of the Social Democratic Party, but since I have been in England I have belonged to no such party. I know Sanson. He has made a statement to me about his absence. Greenberg had pro
<lb/>mised to be present at my marriage, but he was not there.</p>
<p>Gross-examined by Mr. Melville. I have never while in Hoffman's rooms seen Gardstein and Dubof together. My first statement was made, I believe, two days after my arrest; I was for six days at the police station and I was questioned every evening; I answered and then came the statement. I was defended by nobody at that time. I know Dubof came to 59, Grove Street on December 16 after I had arrived; I arrived at two p.m.</p>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Leach. Hoffman was friendly with the landlord of 59, Grove Street and used to call often. I heard Bessie Jacobs state at the police court that she had seen Vassileva take down the shutters at 11, Exchange Buildings. Trassjonsky then exclaimed, "I am the woman, not her." I never saw Peter the Painter at the Jubilee Street Club).</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250143"/>
<p>Cross-examined by Mr. Bodkin. I cannot see the smallest resem
<lb/>blance between Vassileva and Trassjonsky. I remember Police-con
<lb/>stable Woodward looking after me at Bishopsgate Police Station on February 6 and having a talk with him. I did not say to him, "If I know something and do not tell them, what will they do with me?"; I do not think he understood me very well. His account of the conver
<lb/>sation we had is not very correct; I did not tell him that I could show where a man and woman who were concerned in it lived. On Feb
<lb/>ruary 2 I made an untrue statement as to not having known Fritz and then I made the true statement to Inspector Ottaway two days before I had this conversation with Woodward, and what I really asked was if it meant something bad for me because I had made an untrue state
<lb/>ment at first. The reason why I said that I did not know Fritz, Peter the Painter, Peters, Federof, and all the rest was because I knew those persons were committed with the Houndsditch murders, and I did not like to be committed with them; I did not want to be implicated in their affair. It was not a surprise to me to be arrested, because I had been told that Inspector Newell was at various places looking for me. I thought if I said I knew nothing of these people perhaps he would not keep me at the station; I had been married only two days before and I was thinking about my living. I first met Dubof at 74, Wel
<lb/>lesley Street on about March 10. I think I saw him once at Wolf Brown's. I was at Brown's house several times, because Hoffman, whom I am very friendly with, lived there. I was also friendly with Brown and I used to go and play chess with him. Hoffman was called at the police court. I used to see him in his room at Brown's in com
<lb/>pany with Fritz, Gardstein, but not Dubof. I never had a little brown bag. The reason I went to Vassileva on December 18 was that I had found Hoffman out and I thought he might have gone round there. I did not understand her when she asked me if I had brought trouble with me and I said, "I do not know." I did not ask her what she had been doing in Exchange Buildings on her telling me she had been there. It was about half an hour after I arrived at 59, Grove Street on the 16th that Dubof came; that was the first time I had seen him that day.</p>
<p>(Thursday, May 11.)</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-503" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-503" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-503" type="surname" value="ROSEN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-503" type="given" value="JOHN"/>JOHN ROSEN</persName> </hi>, recalled, further cross-examined by Mr. Stewart. Bifstek was a sailor living at 11, High Street, Poplar, where I once lived. I afterwards met him with his landlord's daughter (Miss Pearl
<lb/>man). At his invitation I visited him at 29, Great Garden Street, where Fritz and Peters were living. Old Mr. Pearlman moved to 74 or 76, Great Garden Street. I know Hoffman as "Maises" and Gard-atein as "Buika." After a time Hoffman left Wellesley Street and went to 36, Lindley Street. I did not know anything against Hoffman. Peter the Painter was sometimes at that address; he was friends with Fritz. I cannot say Peter the Painter had plenty of money; he was well dressed; he had the appearance of being better off than the rest of us. I also saw Gardstein at 36, Lindley Street. I have never seen.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250144"/>
<p>Vassileva at 59, Grove Street; I made her acquaintance at 29, Great Garden Street, and believe I saw her at 74, Wellesley Street, where Vassileva afterwards went to. She came sometimes into the landlord's room, and I learnt from him that she was his lodger and made cigar
<lb/>ettes; I bought some from her before the murders, but not after. I knew from the papers that Gardstein had been shot on December 16. I cannot say whether Gardstein and Vassileva were great friends.</p>
<p>Re-examined. I knew on February 2 that my arrest was contem
<lb/>plated, because I heard that Inspector Newell was asking for my photograph and wanted me for the Houndsditch murders. I told Newell everything I knew about these people. I was a frequent visitor at Hoffman's lodgings and there saw Woolf, Fritz, and Peter the Painter. I saw Vassileva at Buross Street on the Sunday after the murder. I have never been to Cutler Street, Middlesex Street, or Stoney Lane.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-504" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-504" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-504" type="surname" value="WEINBERG"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-504" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>SAMUEL WEINBERG</persName> </hi>. I am a hairdresser at 27, Dock Head. Ber-mondsey. Rosen was with me there from Christmas, 1909, till last August Bank Holiday, and afterwards at Hackney; he slept in the parlour. I sold the Hackney business to Willcin on December 5. I have never seen Rosen wearing a cap.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bodkin. Rosen never had a bag in my place. He was in sole charge at Well Street for a time.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-505" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-505" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-505" type="surname" value="BALL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-505" type="given" value="ALFRED"/>ALFRED BALL</persName> </hi>, 106, St. George's Street, Shadwell. I saw Rosen at Well Street on December 12, between one and two. I went there for Mr. Weinberg to fetch a bed and bedstead.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-506" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-506" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-506" type="surname" value="WILLCIN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-506" type="given" value="FRED"/>FRED WILLCIN</persName> </hi>, hairdresser, 112, Well Street. I bought the business on December 13 last from Weinberg; Rosen managed it. I saw him there on Monday, 5th, at nine in the morning and half-past seven at night. Rosen worked for me till February 2. He did not go out on he evening of December 13 or the next day. On the 15th he went out after the shop was closed. On the day of the murders he went out between twelve and one and returned about ten o'clock: he did not go out again; we went to bed at 12 o'clock. I have never seen him with a cap.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bodkin. I cannot remember when I first heard about the finding of Gardstein's body; I never spoke to Rosen about it. I read in the papers about the murders; I cannot remember whether I read it to Rosen. On February 7 I made a statement to Inspector McLean, in which I said that I read an account of the murders to Rosen and as he did not appear to understand it I explained it to him. He said he did not know the photo of Gardstein. Rosen asked me where Grove Street was; I showed it to him on a map. He said he did not know any of the people in custody. I do not know what Rosen did at nights at Well Street prior to my living there; he was in sole charge. Exhibit 161 has my signature on it; when I made that state
<lb/>ment I was under the impression that Rosen never left the shop on the 16th, but I remembered afterwards that he was out. Rosen and I discussed the Hounsditch crimes: he never said he knew any of the persons mentioned in the paper.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250145"/>
<p>To Mr. Bryan. I made a mistake when I told Newell that Rosen did not go out on the 16th. I was not called at the Guildhall as a witness.</p>
<p>Mrs.
<persName id="t19110425-name-507" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-507" type="gender" value="female"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-507" type="surname" value="ROSEN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-507" type="given" value="ROSE"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ROSE ROSEN</hi> </persName>, wife of prisoner Rosen. I was married on January 31. We became acquainted when he lived at Dockhead. I received a letter from him on December 14 and met him on Thursday, the 15th, between half-past five and six and left him about eleven or after. I next met him on Sunday, 18th; he was in his usual condi
<lb/>tion. He only mentioned two of his friends to me; one was Hoffman. I have never seen him wearing a cap. Before my husband's arrest a detective called on me and showed me his photo; my husband told me if they called again to send them to Hackney. To Mr. Bodkin. At the time the police came we were not mrried.
<persName id="t19110425-name-508" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-508" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-508" type="surname" value="WILLIAMSON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-508" type="given" value="ROBERT"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ROBERT WILLIAMSON</hi> </persName>, rent collector, 5, Cassland Road, Hackney. I collected the rent of 112, Well Street, Hackney, between August and December 5 last year from Rosen on Mondays, generally between eleven and one. I am positive Rosen paid me on December 5 and 12.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-509" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-509" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-509" type="surname" value="GREENBURN"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-509" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>CHARLES GREENBURN</persName> </hi>, locksmith, 77, Whitehorse Street. A detec
<lb/>tive showed me Rosen's photograph and made inquiries about him. As a consequence I did not go to Rosen's wedding as I had promised.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-510" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-510" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-510" type="surname" value="NEWELL"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-510" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>WILLIAM NEWELL</persName> </hi>, recalled (to Mr. Bodkin). I arrested Vassileva on February 7 and found in her possession a watch (Exhibit 155).</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. The watch has been in the possession of the police since February 7 and was at the police court ready to be produced. I believe the Treasury knew it was in the possession of the police. The watch was not produced when Millstein was giving evidence.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin said in view of the cross-examination of the witnesses as to apparent unfairness or irregularity in the identification he pro
<lb/>posed to call the officers who were in charge.</p>
<p>
<hi rend="smallCaps">
<persName id="t19110425-name-511" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-511" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-511" type="surname" value="COLLISON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-511" type="given" value="JOHN"/>JOHN COLLISON</persName> </hi>, recalled. About six o'clock on December 23 I received instructions to prepare for an identification at the Bishops-gate police station I arranged to use the chief inspector's room. The witnesses arrived between-a quarter to seven and a quarter past. Chief-inspector Hayes was the officer on duty. Peters and Dubof arrived between half past seven and a quarter to eight. It was arranged that they should come through New Street and Rose Alley, so that they should not be seen by any of the witnesses. I took no part in bringing any of the men in who stood in the row; that was done by other officers.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I do not know who the officers were. I do not know that Peters has been asked whether it was three o'clock in the morning. I was in the muster room when prisoners came in. I took no part in the identification. There were no other people in the cor
<lb/>ridor when they came through.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I do not remember Isaac Gordon saying at the Guildhall, "On the Monday Vassileva asked him to go to a particular friend of hers, a doctor, and ask him if he could let her stop at his house." I did not speak to the prisoners at the police station on the 23rd.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250146"/>
<p>Re-examined. It was arranged that the prisoners should be brought to the station at dusk, owing to the people about the station and to avoid the witnesses seeing them.</p>
<p>Chief-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-512" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-512" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-512" type="surname" value="HAYES"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-512" type="given" value="DANIEL GEORGE"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">DANIEL GEORGE HAYES</hi> </persName>, City Police. On Decem
<lb/>ber 23 the witnesses arrived in batches from a quarter or twenty minutes to seven to a quarter past; Dubof and Peters were brought in some time later. Entry 592 in the charge-book was made under my direction and it records the time—8 p.m.—as the time when the prisoners came. Several officers were sent to get men in from the street to stand up far identification; all the men brought in were not accepted. I told the prisoners they were to be identified and to place themselves anywhere they liked in the row, which they did; after each identification they were asked if they wished to change their positions; they did so. Each witness was brought from my room into the office; then there was another door which was shut; then they came through another door which was shut; they were then told to examine the rank, and, after examining, those who iden
<lb/>tified were sent to one part of the station, those who did not to another. At the end the prisoners said they were satisfied with the identification.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. Police-constable Piper is the officer who nearly identified Dubof. He was the only officer in the room where the wit
<lb/>nesses waited prior to seeing prisoners. It is not usual to prevent witnesses talking together before they go in to identify. The instruc
<lb/>tions to the officers were to get some men to stand in a room for wit
<lb/>nesses to identify. I do not know if Woolf Braun was one of the people. I do not know if Isaac Levy and Craigie swore there were only five foreigners in the row—two besides Peters, Dubof, and Federof. I did not hear Peters say that he made a complaint. I cannot say whether the prisoners were brought there unwashed and unshaven. I do not think there was a description of the men wanted on the station. The witnesses were warned by officers to come to the station. There were five or six officers in the room at the time of the identification.</p>
<p>To Mr. Stewart. I was not in charge when Isaac Levy purported to identify the girl as the girl with Gardstein on the 16th.</p>
<p>Chief-inspector
<persName id="t19110425-name-513" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-513" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-513" type="surname" value="SEATON"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-513" type="given" value="PETER"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">PETER SEATON</hi> </persName>, City Police. On December 29 a number of persons were got from the street and placed in the yard at the back of the Guildhall Police Court, among whom Peters and Dubof were put. The men were selected for their resemblance to prisoners. Mr. Robert Humphreys, solicitor, and a gentleman from the Russian Consulate were present. The prisoners were asked after the identification if they were satisfied with the fairness of it, and they said they had no complaint. Mr. Humphreys and the Russian gentle
<lb/>man also expressed themselves satisfied.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. No doubt I saw sketches and descriptions of prisoners in the papers. I do not know if there were any foreigners in the row at the Guildhall.</p>
<p>To Mr. Bodkin. Mr. Humphreys told me he represented all the prisoners at the direction of the Russian Consul.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250147"/>
<p>Police-constable
<persName id="t19110425-name-514" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-514" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-514" type="surname" value="PIPER"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-514" type="given" value="WALTER"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">WALTER PIPER</hi> </persName>, recalled. I was at Bishopsgate Police Station, when Federof, Peters, and Dubof were brought to be identified. I was there as a witness.</p>
<p>To Mr. Melville. I knew yesterday that there was a question as to the identification of these people. The witnesses were in the room about a quarter to seven and the examination was not over till nine.</p>
<p>Mr. Stewart, on behalf of Vassileva, called only a witness to cha
<lb/>racter,
<persName id="t19110425-name-515" type="witnessName">
<interp inst="t19110425-name-515" type="gender" value="male"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-515" type="surname" value="MALMSKY"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-name-515" type="given" value="ABRAHAM"/>
<hi rend="smallCaps">ABRAHAM MALMSKY</hi> </persName>, manager to Messrs. Millhoff, who said that Vassileva had worked for the company and her character was very good. Her average earnings were 25s. a week.</p>
<p>Mr. Bodkin asked for a ruling as to the order of speeches. He submitted that if a counsel representing a defendant as to whom no witnesses are called puts any questions and elicits facts from witnesses called by other defendants, he makes those witnesses his witnesses; putting those questions, not in cross-examination, but for the purpose of eliciting facts from witnesses called for the other defendants, is in fact the giving of evidence on behalf of the person he is representing. Further, the rule had been followed on many, many occasions, especially in charges of conspiracy, that where the cases of different defendants are intimately involved the Crown has a general right of reply. Mr. Bodkin contended that the questions put by Vaasileva's counsel to Peters, Dubof, Millstein, and Rosen were in the nature of eliciting facts on Vassileva's behalf.</p>
<p>Mr. Stewart said he was unaware of any case that had been taken to the C.C.C.R. or the C. Cr. App. in which Mr. Bodkin's proposition had been main
<lb/>tained. If counsel for one prisoner finds in the witness-box witnesses, called either by the prosecution or by other prisoners, who give evidence concerning his client, it would be a monstrous hardship and a reversal of well-established practice to say that, because counsel availed himself of the opportunity to cross-examine those witnesses, he should be deprived of the last word, to obtain which (or largely so) that counsel had refrained from calling evidence.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham said that as a matter of strict law he was of opinion that Mr. Bodkin was right in his submission. Unquestionably Mr. Stewart had made these witnesses his witnesses; in the course of cross-examining them he had repeatedly stated, "I must get out these facts for my clients." Strictly, therefore, the Crown was entitled to the last word. But in a case of this gravity his Lordship did not wish it to he said that anything had been done having even the semblance of injustice to the prisoners, and, under the circum
<lb/>stances, the usual course must be followed where one counsel did not call wit
<lb/>nesses and others did, namely, that he had the right to wind up, and counsel for the Crown must speak before him.</p>
<p>Accordingly the order of addresses to the jury was: Mr. Melville, for Dubof and Peters; Mr. Bryan, for Rosen; Mr. Bodkin, for the Crown; Mr. Stewart, for Vassileva.</p>
<p>(Friday, May 12.)</p>
<p>Verdict, Peters, Dubof, and Rosen,
<rs id="t19110425-75-verdict-1" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-1" type="verdictCategory" value="notGuilty"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-1" type="verdictSubcategory" value=""/>Not guilty</rs>; Vassileva,
<rs id="t19110425-75-verdict-2" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-2" type="verdictCategory" value="guilty"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-2" type="verdictSubcategory" value="withRecommendation"/>Guilty; the jury recommended that she should not be deported.</rs> </p>
<p>On the indictment against Dubof, Peters, and Vassileva charging them with feloniously harbouring, comforting, assisting, and main
<lb/>taining George Gardstein, knowing him to have, with a loaded pistol, feloniously shot at Robert Bentley with intent to murder him, Mr. Bodkin
<rs id="t19110425-75-verdict-3" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-3" type="verdictCategory" value="notGuilty"/>
<interp inst="t19110425-75-verdict-3" type="verdictSubcategory" value="noEvidence"/>offered no evidence and they were formally acquitted.</rs> </p>
<p>*
<hi rend="italic">Cf</hi>. R. v. Jarvis and others, Sessions Papers,
<hi rend="largeCaps">CLII</hi>., p. 34; see also the cases collected in Archbold's Criminal Pleading, 24th ed., p. 223.—H.D.R.</p>
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="191104250148"/>
<p>It was stated on behalf of Vassileva that she was a political refugee from Russia, but that she had always borne a good character; she seemed to have come under the influence of Gardstein, with whom she was living, and his associates.</p>
<p>Mr. Justice Grantham, remarking that without the jury's recom
<lb/>mendation, he should certainly have deported her, and that he regarded this as a serious case, sentenced Vassileva to
<rs id="t19110425-75-punishment-74" type="punishmentDescription">
<interp inst="t19110425-75-punishment-74" type="punishmentCategory" value="imprison"/>
<join result="defendantPunishment" targOrder="Y" targets="def4-75-19110425 t19110425-75-punishment-74"/>two years' imprisonment.</rs> </p> </div1></div0>
</body>
</text>
</TEI.2>

View as Text