Browse - Central Criminal Court

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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend10" type="defendantName"> RICHARD TIDD
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend12" type="defendantName"> JAMES WILLIAM WILSON
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend14" type="defendantName"> JOHN HARRISON
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend16" type="defendantName"> RICHARD BRADBURN
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend18" type="defendantName"> JOHN SHAW STRANGE
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend20" type="defendantName"> JAMES GILCHRIST
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<persName id="t18200416-1-defend22" type="defendantName"> CHARLES COOPER
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend22" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> were indicted for that
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-off1" type="offenceSubcategory" value="treason"/> they, being subjects of our Lord the King, not having the fear of God in their hearts, nor weighing the duty of their allegiance, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, as false traitors against our said Lord the King, and wholly withdrawing the love, obedience, fidelity, and allegiance, which every true and faithful subject of our said Lord the King should and of right ought to bear towards our said Lord the King; on the fifth day of February, in the first year of the reign of our said present Sovereign, Lord
<persName id="t18200416-1-victim23" type="victimName">George the Fourth
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<join result="offenceVictim" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-off1 t18200416-1-victim23"/> </persName> , by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, and on divers other days and times, as well before as after, with force and arms, at the parish of
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<join result="offencePlace" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-off1 t18200416-1-crimeloc2"/>, in the county of Middlesex, maliciously and traitorously, amongst themselves and together with divers other traitors, whose names are unknown did compass, imagine, invent, devise, and intend to deprive and depose our said Lord the King of and from the style, honour and kingly name of the Imperial Crown of this realm; and the said compassing, imagination, invention, device, and intention did then and there express, utter, and declare, by divers overt acts and deeds hereinafter mentioned </rs>. That is to say,
1. Conspiring to devise plans to subvert the Constitution. 2. Conspiring to levy war, and subvert the Constitution. 3. Conspiring to murder divers of the Privy Council. 4. Providing arms to murder divers of the Privy Council. 5. Providing arms and ammunition to levy war and subvert the Constitution. 6. Conspiring to seize cannon, arms and ammunition to arm themselves, and to levy war and subvert the Constitution. 7. Conspiring to burn houses and barracks, and to provide combustibles for that purpose. 8. Preparing addresses, &c. containing incitements to the King's subjects to assist in levying war and subverting the Constitution. 9. Preparing an address to the King's subjects, containing therein that their tyrants were destroyed, &c., to incite them to assist in levying war, and in subverting the Constitution. 10. Assembling themselves with arms, with intent to murder divers of the Privy Council, and to levy war, and subvert the Constitution. 11. Levying war.
SECOND COUNT, That they, the said prisoners, being subjects of our said Lord the King, not having the fear of God in their hearts, nor weighing the duty of their allegiance, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, as false traitors against our said Lord the King, and wholly withdrawing the love, obedience, fidelity, and allegiance, which every true and faithful subject of our said Lord the King should and of right ought to bear towards our said Lord the King, on the fifth day of February, in the first year of the reign aforesaid, and on divers other days and times, as well before as after, with force and arms at the said parish of St. Marylebone, in the said county of Middlesex, maliciously and triatorously, amongst themselves and together with divers other false traitors, whose names are unknown, did compass, imagine, and intend to move and excite insurrection, rebellion, and war against our said Lord the King, within this realm, and to subvert and alter the Legislature, Rule, and Government now duly and happily established within this realm, and to bring and put our said Lord the King to death.
1. Conspiring to devise plans to subvert the Constitution, and depose the King. (Here follows ten other Overt Acts, precisely the same as those set forth in the first Count.)
THIRD COUNT. That the said prisoners being subjects of our said Lord the King, not having the fear of God in their hearts, nor weighing the duty of their allegiance, but
*** The Sessions commenced on the 12th of April, agreeable to adjournment, and the trial of
<persName id="t18200416-1-person24"> Arthur Thistlewood
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person24" type="given" value="Arthur"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person24" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , and others, for High Treason, began on the 17th, the anxiety expressed for the Report of the same, will, it is trusted, be deemed a sufficient apology for publishing it out the regular routine.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160002"/>being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, as false traitors against our said Lord the King, and wholly withdrawing the love, obedience, fidelity and allegiance which every true and faithful subject of our said Lord the King should and of right ought to bear towards our said Lord the King, on the said 5th day of February, in the first year of the reign aforesaid, and on divers other days and times, as well before as after, with force and arms, at the said parish of Saint Marylebone, in the said county of Middlesex, maliciously and traitorously amongst themselves, together with divers other false traitors, whose names are unknown, did compass, imagine, invent, devise, and intend to levy war against our said Lord the King within this realm, in order by force and constraint to compel him to change his measures and counsels, and the said last-mentioned compassing, imagination, invention, device and intention, did then and there express, utter and declare, by divers overt acts and deeds hereinafter mentioned, That is to say,
1. Conspiring to devise plans, by force and constraint to compel the King to change his measures and counsels. 2. Conspiring to levy war. 3. Conspiring to murder divers of the Privy Council. 4. Providing arms to murder divers of the Privy Council. 5. Providing arms and ammunition in order to levy war. 6. Conspiring to seize cannon, arms, and ammunition, to arm themselves and to levy war. 7. Conspiring to burn houses and barracks, and to provide combustibles for that purpose. 8. Preparing addresses, &c., containing incitements to the King's subjects to assist in levying war. 9. Assembling themselves with arms, with intent to murder divers of the Privy Council, and to levy war. 10. Levying war.
FOURTH COUNT. That they the said prisoners being subjects of our said Lord the King, not having the fear of God in their hearts, nor weighing the duty of their allegiance, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, as false traitors against our said Lord the King, and wholly withdrawing the love, obedience, fidelity and allegiance which every true and faithful subject of our said Lord the King should and of right ought to bear towards our said Lord the King, on the 23d day of February, in the first year of the reign aforesaid, with force and arms, at the said parish of Saint Marylebone, in the said county of Middlesex, together with divers other false traitors, whose names are unknown, armed and arrayed in a warlike manner (that is to say) with guns, muskets, blunderbusses, pistols, swords, bayonets, pikes, and other weapons, being then and there unlawfully, maliciously, and traitorously assembled and gathered together against our said Lord the King, most wickedly, maliciously, and traitorously did levy and make war against our said Lord the King within this realm, and did then and there maliciously and traitorously attempt and endeavour, by force and arms, to subvert and destroy the Constitution and Government of this realm as by law established, and to deprive and depose our said Lord the King of and from the style, honour, and kingly name of the Imperial Crown of this realm, in contempt of our said Lord the King and his laws, to the evil example of all others, contrary to the duty of the allegiance of them the said prisoners, against the form of the statute in such case made and provided, and against the peace of our said Lord the King, his crown and dignity, That is to say, Levying war.
To which indictment they the prisoners severally and separately pleaded Not Guilty, except Wilson, who pleaded a misnomer, stating his name to be Jame Wilson only; another bill has since been preferred and found against him by that name.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. My Lords, as the prisoners intend to sever their challenges, it will be necessary that they should be tried separately, and with permission of your Lordships, we will proceed to the trial of
<persName id="t18200416-1-person25"> Arthur Thistlewood
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person25" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> on Monday.
COURT. Be it so.
MONDAY, APRIL 17,

<persName id="t18200416-1-defend27" type="defendantName"> ARTHUR THISTLEWOOD
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend27" type="surname" value="THISTLEWOOD"/>
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<persName id="t18200416-1-person28" type="jurorName"> Alexander Barclay
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person28" type="surname" value="Barclay"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person28" type="given" value="Alexander"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person28" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Teddington, gentleman and grocer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person29" type="jurorName"> Thomas Goodchild
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person29" type="surname" value="Goodchild"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person29" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person29" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , North End, Hendon, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person30" type="jurorName"> Thomas Suffield Aldersey
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person30" type="surname" value="Suffield Aldersey"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person30" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person30" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Lisson-grove, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person31" type="jurorName"> James Herbert
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person31" type="surname" value="Herbert"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person31" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person31" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Isleworth, carpenter.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person32" type="jurorName"> John Shooter
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person32" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person32" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , North End, Hendon, gentleman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person33" type="jurorName">Samuel, Granger</persName> , Blackwall, lighterman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person34" type="jurorName"> George Dickenson
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person34" type="surname" value="Dickenson"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person34" type="given" value="George"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person34" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Colt Street, Limehouse, builder.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person35" type="jurorName"> John Edward Shepherd
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person35" type="surname" value="Edward Shepherd"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person35" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person35" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Eden-grove, Holloway, gentleman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person36" type="jurorName"> John Fowler
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person36" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person36" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , St. John-Street, iron-plate-worker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person37" type="jurorName"> William Gibbs Roberts
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person37" type="surname" value="Gibbs Roberts"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person37" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person37" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Rope-maker's Fields, Limehouse, cooper.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person38" type="jurorName"> John Dobson
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person38" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person38" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Felix-place, Islington, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person39" type="jurorName"> William Cooper
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person39" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person39" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Grove-street, St. Pancras, gentleman.
The Prosecution was conducted by the ATTORNEY and SOLICITOR GENERAL, and MESSRS. GURNEY, LITTLEDALE, and BOLLAND.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL stated the case to the Jury, after which the following evidence was called -

<persName id="t18200416-1-person40"> ROBERT ADAMS
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person40" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I lived at No. 4, Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market, and am a shoemaker; I was in the Royal Regiment of Horse Guards; I left that service eighteen years ago - I know the prisoner, Brunt.
Q. When did you first become acquainted with him - A. At Cambray, in France, in 1815; he then went by the name of
<persName id="t18200416-1-person41"> Thomas Morton
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<interp inst="t18200416-1-person41" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> - I also know Thistlewood; I first became acquainted with him on the 13th of January last, he then lived in Stanhope-street, Clare-market, in the front room on the second floor. I was introduced to him by Brunt and Ings.
Q. Now, will you tell us what conversation passed on the 13th, when you saw Thistlewood - A. I was introduced into the room by Brunt - on going in Brunt said to Thistlewood,
"This is the man I was speaking to you about" - Thistlewood said,
"You was once in the Life Guards?" I said, No, I was not, but I originally belonged to the Blues. He said,
"I presume you are a good swordsman?" I said I could use a sword to defend myself, but I could not say I was so good a swordsman as I was some years ago, not having used a sword or other arms for sometime. On this he began to allude to the gentry of this country, doing all he could to make them mean and contemptible, saying there was no person worth 10 l. that was worth any thing for the good of his country; and as for the shopkeepers, they were a set of Aristocrats altogether, that they were all working under one system of government, and it would be his glory to see the day when all the shops would be shut up and well plundered. The discourse then turned on Mr. Hunt - Thistlewood said
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160003"/>Hunt was a d - d coward, and no friend to the people, and he had no doubt that if he could get into Whitehall he should find his name on the Government books as a spy for Government. He next said that Mr. Cobbett and all his writings were no good to the country, and he had no doubt but he was a spy equally with Hunt himself - that finished the discourse at that time, as far as I can recollect exactly.
Q. Were you afterwards confined in Whitecross-street prison for debt - A. Yes, on the 17th of January. Some other interviews took place between me and Thistlewood before that; I had an interview with him on Sunday, the 16th, at the White Hart, public-house, in Brooks-market, in a room in the back yard Ings, Brunt, and Hall, and before it broke up Tidd was present. I remained in prison till Sunday, the 30th of January.
Q. After you came out did you see Thistlewood - A. I saw him on Monday evening, the 31st, in the back room on the same floor on which Brunt lives, in Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane, I cannot exactly tell the number. Brunt, Ings, Hall, and Davidson were present; I cannot charge my memory with anybody else. Nothing particular took place on that night. To the best of my recollection I met him next on the Wednesday; Thistlewood, Brunt, Davidson, Harrison, and Edwards were there. On going into the room I saw a number of pike-staves; Thistlewood was anxious to have them ferrelled, and expressed himself surprised that a person named Bradburn, the prisoner, was not come; I do not know his trade. Davidson in particular began to express himself dissatisfied, and gave a hint that Bradburn was supplied with money to purchase ferrels to put on the staves, and that had not been done. The staves were in the room at the time - they were quite green, and appeared as if they had just come from the country.
Q. Tell us any thing further that passed that evening - A. After Davidson expressing himself dissatisfied about Bradburn not coming forward, Thistlewood said he would not give a d - n for any man that would suppose he had spent the money. These meetings were held twice a day, from the time I came out of prison till the 23d of February.
Q. Who hired the room - A. I heard Brunt say he hired it for Ings; he did not say for what purpose. There was no furniture in it except a stove, which was fixed.
Q. You have told us of the meeting on Wednesday, when did you go there again - A. I cannot be positive, but I recollect one circumstance in particular, which struck me on one evening. Nine or ten days before the funeral of the late King I went up to the room, Thistlewood and Harrison were sitting by the fire in deep discourse - there were two chairs, they made room for me to sit down, and began to tell me the discourse they had been about. Harrison was telling Thistlewood that he had met one of the Life Guards, who had told him that all the horse and foot soldiers who could be spared would be at the funeral of the King, and pretty well all the police officers, and Harrison said it struck him that it would be a favourable time for what they had in view, as the soldiers would be mostly out of town and the Life Guardsmen, and it would be a good time to kick up a row, and see what could be done. Harrison stated this to Thistlewood.
Q. What did Thistlewood say - A. It quite met his approbation; he said it certainly would be a good opportunity, and he thought provided they could take the two pieces of cannon from Gray's Inn-lane, and the six pieces from the Artillery Ground, they would have the means of getting possession of London before morning.
Q. What further passed - A. Thistlewood quite agreed in the plan, and said if once it was began, and if a communication went from London to Windsor that they were round London, the military would be so tired, that when they got to London they would be too fatigued to do any thing. He said he had been informed, that after they got the cannon they might get to Hyde Park, and prevent any communication between London and Windsor. In the next place, he thought it would be highly necessary to go to the Telegraph over the water, and get possession of that, to prevent any communication being made with Woolwich, and he thought by this time we should be able to form a Provisional Government, and that we should send to the sea-ports to prevent any gentlemen from passing out of this country without the passport of the Provisional Government. He particularly mentioned Dover, Brighton, Ramsgate, and Margate, and at last he thought Brighton would be the most particular of any, and it would be necessary to take a force to get possession of it, not that he thought the new King would be there, or even at the funeral of his father. That it was no use for the new King to think of wearing the crown of England, for the present family had inherited it long enough.
Q. You said Harrison, Thistlewood, and yourself were there, did any one else come in afterwards - A. Brunt and Ings came in afterwards - Thistlewood got up, and communicated to them Harrison's idea respecting what might be done at the funeral of the King; they heard it, and both of them declared that there was nothing short of the assassination which they had in view would satisfy them.
Q. The assassination of whom - A. Of the ministers.
Q. Had any conversation taken place before - A. Yes, at a former meeting I asked them frequently for the plan; Brunt told me two or three of them had drawn out a plan, with a view to assassinate the cabinet ministers at the first cabinet dinner they had; they scarcely ever met without that being the subject.
Q. You saw some pike staves in the room, was any thing else ever carried into the room before the meeting at which the funeral of the King was spoken of - A. After that meeting I saw things carried in.
Q. Come to the 19th of February - A. That was on Saturday. I went there between eleven and twelve o'clock in the morning to Fox-court, and saw Thistlewood, Davidson, Harrison, Ings, Brunt, and Hall there. On my going into the room they all sat round the fire, they seemed in confusion and deep study; I had scarcely been there a moment before they all got up, saying,
"Well, it is agreed we are come to the determination that if nothing takes place between this and next Wednesday night we all go to work;" it was said they were all so poor that they could wait no longer. Thistlewood immediately proposed that a committee should meet on the morrow morning, Sunday, at nine o'clock, in order to draw out a plan to go by. Thistlewood said to Brunt,
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160004"/>" You had better go round this afternoon, and collect what men you think you can bring forward, in order to mention it to-morrow." Brunt said he had some work to finish, and did not think he had time, but he might get up to-morrow morning, and tell a few, and he did not want many to be at the meeting. Brunt appeared as if he was leaving the room, Thistlewood recollected himself and said,
"Oh, Brunt, it will be highly necessary for all who attend the committee to-morrow morning to bring arms with them, in case any officers should come up" - on this Brunt said,
"D - n my eyes, if any officers come here I would run them through, and take care of them afterwards, that nothing should be found out." This, to the best of my recollection, finished what I saw on Saturday - in the evening I did not go up.
Q. On Sunday - A. On Sunday I went about eleven o'clock. On entering the room, what with the fog and the thickness of the snow, the room was completely dark; I could scarcely see who was in the room, till Tidd said
"How do you do, Adams?"
Q. Did you afterwards collect from the conversation; and on looking round, who was there - A. Yes. Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Hall, Davidson, Harrison, Cook, Bradburn, Edwards, and Wilson. I found the business had not been entered into; Thistlewood on looking round and counting the heads, said,
"I think it is high time we should begin; there are twelve in the room, and that is enough to form a committee" - he proposed that Tidd should take the chair. Tidd took the chair, and sat with a pike in his hand. Mr. Thistlewood standing on his left, and Brunt on the right. Thistlewood began, and said,
"Gentlemen, I presume you all know what you have met here for," turning his head to the door, with an allusion that he would not mention the names of the Ministers, but said,
"The West End job." Brunt perceiving this, said,
"Never mind, mention their names, what occasion have we to fear officers?" - he was called to order by the chair. On this Thistlewood spoke, and said,
"Gentlemen, we have all come to this determination, and are all tired of waiting so long to do this job we have been talking of so long; and finding there is no probability of their meeting altogether -
Q. Whose meeting altogether - A. The Ministers. He said,
"If in case they do not all dine together between this and Wednesday night, we are come to a determination to take them separately at their own homes - and if we take them separately we must content ourselves with taking them three or four together; as we can get them. I suppose it will take as many as forty or fifty men to do the West End job, and I propose that the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, and the six pieces in the Artillery-ground shall be taken at the same time." He named Cook to take the lead and command in taking the six pieces of cannon in the Artillery-ground, and when they were taken they were to take the Mansion House as a seat for the Provisional Government; they were then to make an attempt on the Bank of England. He directly proposed that Mr. Palin should be the man to set fire to different buildings in different parts of London.
Q. Was he to do this by himself - A. To the best of my recollection. This pretty well finished Thistlewood's plan that morning, and he said there was time enough between that and Wednesday night to settle what time we should begin, and he should drop the subject at present, as Brunt had a proposition to make to them respecting the assassination of the ministers, how it was to be done. On this Brunt was coming forward to state his plan, but Thistlewood said,
"Stop! this proposition I have made had better be put from the chair, to see whether all are agreeable to what has been said." Thistlewood said to the chairman,
"You had better, before you put the question, ask them all round if they are agreeable." The chairman asked them if they had any thing to say respecting it? Nobody speaking, it was put from the chair, and carried unanimously, Mr. Brunt now came forward with his proposition - he proposed that as many of the ministers as they could form an idea that they could assassinate, it should be done on the Wednesday night, without waiting an opportunity for their dining together; that the men should be divided into separate lots, and after the men were lotted there should be a man drawn out of each lot for the sole purpose of assassinating the party they were to have, and that whoever it fell upon, that man should be bound to do it or be murdered himself; and if he attempted the deed, and failed in it, he swore by all that was good, that that man should be run through on the spot. On this I got up myself, and said to Brunt,
"I wish to ask a question on the few words which have been dropped," and said,
"Do you suppose that it is not possible for a man to go to do a thing. and not to fail in it? and do you mean that man for so failing shall be run through on the spot?" He said No, certainly not, unless the man who attempted it, should fail in it through cowardice, then that man should be run through. He here dropped his discourse for the present; it was put from the chair, and agreed to. A few minutes before any thing else occurred, Palin, Potter, and Strange came in; they were asked to sit down by the fire, being wet and covered with snow - Palin came and sat down by me. Thistlewood then told them of the two plans which had been drawn up, and settled, but as they were not in the room, he thought it right the plans should be stated to them. Thistlewood related his plan, and Brunt his; they agreed to them the same as the rest had done. After this was gone through, Palin got up, and said,
"Mr. Chairman I have a few words to speak. Agreeing, as I do, with the plans which have been proposed, and have held up my hand to assent to them, there is one thing I want to know. There are so many objects you propose to be done at one time, which, if they can be done, will be a great acquisition to our view; but this is what I want to know. You talk of taking from forty to fifty men for the West End job, I should like to know where you are to find the men to take the cannon in Gray's Inn-lane and the Artillery-ground - where are these men to come from? No doubt you know your own strength better than I do, but I can give no answer at present what men I can bring forward. Before I go round to the men I want to collect this afternoon. I want to know whether I am commissioned to communicate what is to be done, then I shall know better how to act. Am I at liberty to tell them in part or full what is to be done, and when they will be wanted." The chairman turning his
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160005"/>head to Thistlewood and Brunt, said,
"I suppose Mr. Palin knows what men he has to depend upon, and might state to them what is to be done, and when wanted, if he can depend on the men; it was agreed to by Thistlewood and Brunt for Palin to have that liberty, and so he sat himself down seemingly satisfied. This finished the business of the chair. To the best of my recollection nothing was transacted regularly after that, but they began to be in a bustle, saying they must go home to dinner, in order to call on the men in the afternoon. All of a sudden Thistlewood turned round, and said,
"Oh Brunt! that is well thought of, now Palin is here I would have you take him here just by, and ask him whether he thinks that can be done."
Q. What was that - A. That was to go to the New Furnival's Inn, and see if he thought it practicable to clap fire to it.
Q. In consequence of this did they go out - A. Brunt said,
"As it is not far, I and Palin can go, and give our report here." They went, returned in about ten minutes, and Palin gave it in that he thought it was very easy to be done, and would make a d - d good fire. On this they began to depart, but before they left the room, Thistlewood said he thought it highly necessary on Tuesday or Wednesday to get what men they could together, and give them a treat, but he did not know how this could be accomplished, as we are all so poor. Brunt said,
"D - n my eyes! I have got a 1 l. note which I have reserved for that purpose, and I am d - d if I don't spend it on the men I have got." Thistlewood said.
"Where are we to take them to? I suppose we might have the room up stairs at the White Hart." Brunt said,
"I don't know, I don't like to go to that room, but never mind, I think we need not fear the bl - dy traps, for if they come into the room they shall not go out again, and he thought he could send his apprentice and the boy out of the way by giving them a holiday, and have the men there, but nevertheless he should call and see what Hobbs, the landlord of the White Hart might have to say." Thistlewood said he thought he could take some of them up to his room, but then said,
"No, that won't do, as there is an officer lives opposite me, and if he saw men going backwards and forwards it would give suspicion that something was at hand." I believe this finished the Sunday morning's business.
Q. When did you meet next - A. On the Monday morning, but I beg to state a circumstance that occurred between the Sunday and Monday. I called on Hobbs -
Q. What took place on Monday morning - A. I went into the room about ten o'clock, the prisoner, Thistlewood, was there at the time, also Brunt, Harrison, Hall, and Ings; I cannot charge my memory with more. They asked me if I was well? I said I was rather unwell, and said,
"Gentlemen, I have something to communicate;" they all turned their eyes on me directly. I told them that Hobbs, the landlord of the White Hart, had told me the evening before, that there had been a couple of officers, one from Hatton-garden, and one from Bow-street, to ask him if there was not a Radical meeting held there, for there was information at Bow-street, and at Lord Sidmouth's office that there was a radical meeting held at his house. Harrison turned round on me like a bull-dog, and said,
"Adams! you have acted d - d wrong" - Brunt turned on me, and said I had acted wrong. I said I did not know that I had. He said,
"If you have heard any thing it is your duty to communicate it to me or Mr. Thistlewood." I said I did not conceive it, and that I thought it my duty to communicate it to all, as it concerned all. They swore at me again, and said I had no business to communicate it to any but them two.
Q. What was said in answer to that observation of yours - A. He said I had no business to communicate any thing of what I heard out of doors but to them. I said,
"What would you have said if I had heard of this, and suffered it to be kept to myself, when I could have prevented it?" They then proposed leaving, saying they had a number of people to call on, and must go to them, and that they had to attend a meeting, which they called the Marylebone Union.
Q. Was anything proposed by either of them respecting that - A. Brunt said he must call at the Marylebone club, and several of them said they should attend.
"I shall call there" said Brunt,
"for I want some money." It was asked by one in the room whether it would be of any use to call there on that speculation? Brunt answered, Yes, it would.
Q. Before you parted was any arrangement made where you were to meet that evening - A. Yes, I was appointed to be at the room in Brunt's house, that was proposed by Thistlewood; I was to attend in case any one should come that was not there in the morning, as they all agreed to be at the Marylebone club that night. I went to Brunt's room; Potter called there, he was wet and cold, and he and I went to the White Hart. Palin and Bradburn came there to me.
Q. On the next morning, Tuesday the 22d, did you go to the room - A. Yes, I did. Brunt, Thistlewood, Ings, Hall, Davidson, Harrison, Wilson, Palin, Potter, and Bradburn were there. While we were there Edwards came in, went to Thistlewood, and told him there was to be a cabinet dinner on Wednesday night, which was the next day. Thistlewood said,
"I don't think that is true," and proposed to send for the newspaper, which was brought. The paper being brought, Thistlewood read out that the Cabinet would dine at the Earl of Harrowby's, in Grosvenor-square, on Wednesday evening. Brunt walked towards the window, and said,
"Now I will be d - d if I don't believe that there is a God. I have often prayed that these thieves might dine altogether, in order that I might destroy them, and now God has answered my prayer." On this Thistlewood proposed that a committee should sit directly, and I was put into the chair.
Q. On this was any proposition made - A. Thistlewood, after I had called to order, began to speak, and proposed that a committee should sit directly, to form a fresh plan, regarding the assassination; he was proceeding, but I interrupted him, and said,
"Gentlemen, after what fell from my mouth yesterday, I hope you have all given it a due consideration." Thistlewood walked backwards and forwards in the room; they were all in a state of confusion, more like madmen than any thing else, and Harrison swore that the first man who dropped a word to throw
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160006"/>cold water on the deed they were going upon, he would run him through with a sword directly; in a few minutes I was put out of the chair, and Tidd put into it. Thistlewood wanted to proceed in the business, but Palin said,
"No! Stop! I want to be satisfied about what passed from Mr. Adams, yesterday, before the business proceeds any farther." Brunt moved, in order to do away with any suspicion, that there should be a watch set at the Earl of Harrowby's house that night; two men were to be set to watch to see if any men or soldiers went into the house, in order to waylay them; this was approved of. The watch was to be set at six o'clock until nine, and from nine to twelve, and to commence again on Wednesday morning, at four o'clock. This was carried, and the watch ordered.
Q. What did Brunt say after that - A. I cannot charge my memory. Thistlewood came forward and said,
"Now from what has fallen from Brunt's mouth I hope you will all be satisfied, and if no one such as officer or soldier is found to go into the house, it is determined to do what we talk of to-morrow evening."
Q. What was talked of then - A. The plan was altered altogether about the assassination. Thistlewood thought it would take forty men, but more if we could get them.
"It will answer our end," said he,
"much better to take them altogether, than at their houses separately - in doing that we could not command more than three at most, but as there has not been a dinner so long, there will be fourteen or sixteen, which will be a rare hawl to murder them all. I propose to go to the door to present a note to Earl Harrowby, and when the door is open, for the men to rush in directly and seize the servants who are in the way, present a pistol, and threaten them with instant death in the event of making a noise." This being done, a party were to rush forward to take command of the stairs; one was to have fire-arms, and another with a hand-grenade - another was to take possession of the top of the stairs leading to the lower part of the house; these two men placed at the end of the stairs were to be armed in the same manner. If any servants attempted to make a retreat, these men were to clap fire to the hand grenades, throw them in among them, and destroy them altogether. Two men were to be placed at the area, one with a blunderbuss and one with a hand-grenade - if any attempted to retreat that way they were to set fire to the hand-grenades, and set fire to them at the time. The men who were to go into the room were to rush in directly after into the room where their Lordships were, and to murder all they found in the room, good or bad; and if there were any good ones they would murder them for keeping bad company. Ings volunteered himself to enter the room first, with a brace of pistols and his cutlass, and his knife in his pocket, with a determination to cut every head off that was in the room, and the heads of Lord Castlereagh and Sidmouth he would bring away in two bags which he provided for the purpose; and as soon as he entered the room he should say,
"Well, my Lords, I have got as good men here as the Manchester Yeomanry; enter Citizens, and do your duty!" On this word of command two swordsmen were to enter first, to be followed by the rest with hand-grenades, pistols, swords, cutlasses, and what not, and to fall to and murder all as fast as they could.
Q. Who did Thistlewood fix for the swordsmen - A. Harrison and I, as being the two men most used to it. Harrison had been in the Life Guards. On his being proposed to go into the room, Thistlewood turned to me, and said,
"Adams, won't you go in?" Seeing no chance of escape, and knowing my life was in danger, I agreed to it.
Q. Did Thistlewood propose any thing else to be done - A. After the assassination at Lord Harrowby's house, they were to leave as quick as possible, and Harrison was to go to King-street barracks, where the horse soldiers are, and to take one of the fire-balls to fling into the straw-shed to set fire to the premises - he was to be supported by Wilson. The rest of the party were to proceed from Grosvenor-square to the City Light Horse barracks, Gray's Inn-lane, for the purpose of meeting a party of men who had been appointed there; and if they found themselves not sufficient to take the two pieces of cannon, they were to wait their arrival to assist them. They were to proceed from there to the Artillery Ground, where Cook was appointed, in order to lend him a hand, if he was not sufficiently strong.
Q. To what place were they to go then - A. Cook was to wait there for the arrival of Thistlewood, and to bring the cannon loaded into the street, to fire on the people if they attempted to hinder them; but if he found himself strong enough to proceed he was to go to the Mansion House, and divide the six cannon into two divisions; to take three on the Bank side of the Mansion House, and three on the Poultry side; then he was to demand the Mansion House - on a refusal he was to fire at both sides, and it was thought that in doing that they would soon give it up.
Q. Did he say what use was to be made of the Mansion House - A. It was for the Provisional Government to sit in. The Bank was the next place to be attacked, and to plunder it of all that could be found, but not to destroy the books if it could be prevented, for by preserving them it would enable them to see the villainy that had for years been practised. The further proceedings were to be left till Wednesday. It was particularly mentioned that Palin's plan should be proceeded in, but they came to no decisive time; that was to be discussed on Wednesday.
Q. Was any watch set at Lord Harrowby's house that night - A. I wish to state, that after the chair was left, there was a bustle about the room, Harrison proposed there should be a countersign, and those that were to go round to the men should communicate the countersign to them - the first man that came up was to say BUT, and the man in waiting to receive him was to say TON, making the word button, which was a token that the man was one of the party. The man was to stand at the end of Oxford-road, to communicate to any one that came up to him in this way the place of meeting, which was settled.
Q. In the course of the evening did you go on the watch at Lord Harrowby's - A. I did. I wish to state, that in the afternoon after I had left in the morning, I went to the room again, and perceived a strange smell in the house;
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160007"/>I found Edwards, Ings, and Hall there - Edwards was making fusees to put to the hand-grenades; Ings was dipping some rope-yarn into stuff in a pot to make the illumination or fire balls; Hall was laying sheets of brown paper on the floor to wrap them up in after they came from the pot. I left in a few minutes, called again in the evening, and found two strange men in the room - I afterwards found one of them to be Harriss; Brunt and Thistlewood were there also - nothing particular transpired. Davidson was on watch at six o'clock. About half-past eight Tidd came into the room, saying he was disappointed in a man he was to have met, and on this Tidd and Brunt being appointed to go on watch at nine o'clock they started and in less than five minutes Brunt returned; they had called at a public-house, and said Tidd could not go, for he had met a man he expected would be of great service to them. I went with him, and just as I was going out in came Edwards from the watch. I asked him if any thing had been seen there? he said,
"Whatever has been seen I shall communicate to Mr. Thistlewood." I thought that was a hint for me, and I went on the watch.
Q. When you got to the square who did you find on the watch - A. I found Davidson and another man, who he was I cannot say. Before I went to the square I intimated to Brunt that I was faint, went to a public-house, and got some bread and cheese and porter, directly at the back of Lord Harrowby's, at the corner of the mews - a young man sat there, Brunt played at dominos with him. We kept walking in the square till eleven o'clock; I got ashamed of it, and walked at the back of the square. I met him again at twelve o'clock, he and I then went away home.
Q. Next day did you go to Fox-court - A. Between two and three o'clock in the afternoon - I found nobody there but Brunt in his own room. Strange came in alone; two more came in in five minutes; I turned my head and saw them. Brunt, in consequence of this, proposed to go to the back room, where we usually met.
Q. Before that was any thing done with the pistols - A. We handled them, and Strange and another person tried the flints. They unlocked the door, and we went into the back room. On entering the room I saw a blunderbuss, a number of cutlasses, several pistols besides, and the pistols that were in Brunt's room were brought into this room; they placed themselves down, and the two strangers in particular put the flints into the pistols. We had not been long in the room before Thistlewood came - Ings and Hall entered afterwards. On Thistlewood's coming in he looked round, and said,
"Well, my lads, this looks something like as if something was going to be done." He clapped his hand on my shoulder, and said,
"Well, Mr. Adams, how do you do?" I said,
"I am very unwell and low in spirits, I have had nothing to drink to-day." He said,
"You shall not be without any thing long." Brunt sent for some gin and beer, which was fetched. Before the beer came Thistlewood said he wanted some paper the size of a newspaper, in order to write some bills on, and asked who would fetch it? Brunt said, either his boy or apprentice should. He put his hand into his pocket, and gave Brunt a shilling to fetch six sheets of cartridge-paper, which was brought, and a table and chair fetched out of Brunt's room, for Thistlewood to sit on, and the table to write on. He sat down and wrote three bills to stick against the different buildings which were to be set on fire, to acquaint the public what deeds had been done. He wrote and read the bills, to the best of my recollection these were the words: -
"Your tyrants are destroyed! the friends of liberty are called upon to come forward. The Provisional Government are sitting.
<persName id="t18200416-1-person42"> James Ings
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person42" type="surname" value="Ings"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person42" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person42" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Secretary. February, 23, 1820." He wrote three of them. In writing the last I perceived Thistlewood to be extremely agitated, he could not write; he expressed himself very tired, and did not know what was the matter with him, but he could write no more.
Q. Was any thing else written - A. Three other bills were proposed to be written - one was drawn up in part; it was to make an offer to the soldiers. In consequence of Thistlewood's hand trembling he proposed that Hall should take the pen, he refused. Another man, whom I never saw before, was proposed, he objected, but afterwards sat down and took the pen - Thistlewood dictated to him what to write. The last time I saw the papers was one in the hands of Thistlewood, doubled up, and another in the hands of Ings; I do not know what became of them.
Q. Was that paper completed - A. It was not, for the man who was writing it and Thistlewood together could not come to any particular terms respecting the wording of it, and it was dropped. Thistlewood expressed great dissatisfaction, saying he spoke to a man a fortnight ago to draw them out, and he had not seen him since. While the bills were writing Ings was preparing himself in the manner in which he was to enter the Earl of Harrowby's house; he put a black belt round his waist, and another over his shoulder, he also put on two bags like soldiers' havesacks, and then pistols in his belt. He afterwards looked at himself and said,
"D - n my eyes! I am not complete, for I have forgot my steel." He took out a large knife, brandished it about, and swore he would bring away the heads of Lord Castlereagh and Sidmouth, in his bags, and the hand of Lord Castlereagh he would cure (preserve), as it would be thought a good deal of hereafter. The knife was about twelve inches long with a rough handle, round which there was wax-end, which he said was to prevent its slipping when he was using it.
Q. What were the rest doing - A. They were equally busy in equipping themselves - Palin came in about half-past five o'clock. Thistlewood and Brunt left the room; Palin addressed those who were present, and said,
"Gentlemen, I hope you are all aware of what you are going to do, you ought first to think within yourselves whether you are going to do your country a service or not, you ought to think whether the assassination of the ministers will be countenanced by your country; if you think the country will approve of it you ought to make a resolution that the man who flinches should be run through on the spot, unless you come to this determination it will be of no good." A tall man in the room said,
"You speak as if we all knew what we were going about; I should like to know what you are going after" - I had not seen this man before. He said to Palin,
"I can pretty well see the meaning of what you say; I am not afraid for myself, nor ought any man to be afraid who once enters into a concern like this."

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160008"/>Q. How long was it before Brunt and Thistlewood returned to the room - A. I do not recollect seeing Thistlewood after that. When Brunt came into the room, he perceiving an alteration, as he thought, in the countenance of the meeting, he enquired the reason, and was told by that tall man, some in the room wished to know further of the plan they were going upon? Brunt said that was not the room for them to be told what they were going about, but they were to go with him to the room in the Edgware-road, and they should be told; he directly began to wish to put them into movement to go, and said he would take good care that all who went with him should have something to drink, to put them in spirits; the tall man said,
"I hope you are not going to encourage drunkenness, for that is of no service to a man in a thing like this, for the only service in it is to run himself into the hands of his enemies." Brunt was on the move, I went out of the room first, Strange, this tall man, and other strangers, whose names I do not know, were to follow; it was agreed they were to walk two and two in the street, and not close to each other, to prevent suspicion. I started, and in going up Holborn I had a tap on my left side, and was called by name - it was a man who had been at the meeting. I cannot swear to him.
Q. You are now got out of the room, I want to ask you was there any cupboard in the room - A. Yes; different things were kept in it that were brought to the room, such as swords, hand-grenades, and flannel bags, which were made for the sole purpose for the cartridges for the cannon. I only saw one filled.
Q. You told us there were some poles and ferrels fixed to them; where was that done - A. In the back room.
Q. Were all the arms and ammunition kept in that room - A. No, the depot was at Tidd's, who lived in the next room to myself in the Hole in the Wall-passage. I found out that was the depot, and Thistlewood was always in a hurry when any thing was ready for it to be taken away to the depot, in case anybody, such as officers, should come up, and if they saw these things they might suspect something was in hand more than they were aware of.
Q. Had you any arms when you went out - A. I had a brass-barrelled blunderbuss; being tall, and having a great coat, it was given to me to sling over my shoulder, under my coat, so that it should not be seen. Brunt had a broom-stick, which was given to me for a walking-stick - it was for a bayonet.
Q. Were there any pikes for the staves - A. Yes. The generality of them appeared to be made from old files and old bayonets.
Q. Did Brunt go with you all the way, or did he leave you - A. When this man came he told me to slacken my pace, for Brunt had gone back for something. I went on to the top of Oxford-road, crossed the road under the dead wall, and turned to see who was behind me. I found none of the persons who accompanied me were in sight. I turned back, walked to the end of Park-lane, and met Brunt afterwards somewhere below the end of Park-lane. He said,
"Halloo! Where are you going?" I said I was going home, and did not know where to go, for I had been walking about until I was tired - another man was with him. I at last turned back with him along the Edgware-road, and met the prisoner, Thistlewood. We all four went on to a stable in Cato-street.
Q. Who did you see at the stable-door, or near it - A. As I went under the archway I was behind them, and saw Brunt enter; Thistlewood followed and this other man. I staid behind; Harrison came up, and said,
"Come, go in!" which I did, and in the ground floor I saw Davidson sitting down, and Wilson standing up - they appeared to me to be doing something to the pikes. I went up the ladder, and found Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Hall, Bradburn, Strange, Cooper, this tall man I alluded to, and several others, whom I did not know by name. At the conclusion of it there were eighteen in the room, and two down stairs.
Q. Did you see a carpenter's bench in the loft - A. Yes, and on it were arms of different descriptions - one candle was alight. There was a chest at the end of the bench, under the window.
Q, When you first went in, what were they doing - A. Preparing different arms; there was some beer standing on the bench. I did not see Tidd in the room until twenty minutes before the officers came up.
Q. Before Tidd came, what passed between Thistlewood and Brunt - A. Thistlewood proposed going to the square to see if the ministers had arrived to dine at Lord Harrowby's. He was gone sometime, and on his returning, as I sat in the loft, I heard a great deal of talking down stairs. I went down, and found Thistlewood, Brunt, Davidson, Harrison, and Wilson talking very closely together. As soon as they perceived me, they turned sharp on their heels, and said, what good news they had got. I said,
"What good news?". Thistlewood said,
"We have just got news from the square that the carriage are arriving as quick as possible; there are no less than six or seven carriages there already." Brunt said,
"D - n my eyes, what a hawl we shall have to night!" We went up stairs by Thistlewood's desire. I then saw Thistlewood and Brunt together, very much agitated, talking about Tidd. On Thistlewood turning away, it was seen there was something the matter. Ings said,
"D - n my eyes! don't think of dropping it now, or I shall hang myself - I shall be mad." It was said round the room that Tidd would not come, but he did come very soon after.
Q. Without going through all this, was any thing said by Thistlewood to move them aside to see what should be done - A. Thistlewood said he hoped they would not give up what they had met there for, for if they did it would turn out another Despard job. On this he began to count the number of men in the room; he said,
"There are eighteen here, and two down stairs - you think there are not men enough to go, but I think there are plenty." He proposed that fourteen would be sufficient to go into the room, and the other six would be sufficient to take care of the servants of the house. The fourteen men were set apart on one side of the room, for the purpose of going into the room. Brunt produced a gin-bottle from his pocket, and passed it to them.
"Now" said Thistlewood,
"I conceive this number of men is quite sufficient. Suppose Lord Harrowby should have sixteen servants in the house, they are not prepared and we are; we can enter the house, and do what we propose in about ten minutes
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160009"/>time." I do not recollect any thing particular dropping from Thistlewood afterwards.
Q. Did you hear any disturbance below - A. Almost directly after we heard a pistol fired below, and all of a sudden there was a call at the bottom of the ladder,
"Halloo! shew a light." Upon this Thistlewood took the candle off the bench, and held it down to see who it was, then sat the candle on the bench quite confused. At this instant the officers ascended the ladder, and took command of the room at the head of the ladder.
Q. What do you mean by taking command of the room - A. Got into the room. Two stood at the top of the ladder with small pistols in their hands, and presented them, saying,
"Halloo! here is a pretty nest of you. Gentlemen, we have a warrant to apprehend you all, and as such we hope you will go peaceably." At this instant of time, one of the officers that was behind, on the ladder, said,
"Let me come forward." (This was the man that was murdered). The two officers at the head of the ladder opened to make way for him, and at this instant, a group of those who had got into the little room before the officers came, came forward; among the group I saw an arm rush forward, and at the same time I saw another arm with a pistol, which was fired; the man fell, and out went the candle. I cannot give an account of what passed afterwards.
Q. Did you get away - A. I did. After the officers left the room I went down the ladder, through the stable, and into the street, gave the alarm of murder, and went away straight home.
Q. How soon after was you apprehended - A. On the Friday, at my own lodgings, and have been in custody ever since.
Q. Look at the prisoners, and tell us their names - A. There is Thistlewood, Davidson, Wilson, Brunt, Ings, Cooper, Harrison, and Tidd. I know the others by sight, but not by name.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. You went with the full determination of assassinating his Majesty's ministers - A. Not with the full intent.
Q. What carried you there - A. My legs.
Q. What intention carried you there - A. Why, I certainly cannot tell, but that I went there with that pretension, to outward appearance.
Q. What was your inward intent - A. Entirely against the plan that was proposed.
Q. You attended many meetings where the plan was debated - A. Yes, and one morning I was chairman.
Q. How came you to join them again if your intention was against it - A. There had been threatening language held out by Brunt, that if any man withdrew himself he should be marked out - fear kept me to them.
Q. Had you quitted the army for some time - A. Yes. Since that I have been principally in trade as a shoemaker. I went to France to follow my trade - I had no other particular motive for leaving England.
Q. Were you ever trustee to a benefit fund - A. No. I carried between 30 l. and 40 l. to France. I conceived it to be all my own.
Q. Some persons conceived it to belong to other people - A. I do not know; I was never charged with carrying money away that did not belong to me.
Q. For what purpose did Brunt introduce you to Thistlewood - A. For the purpose of assassinating the ministers - this was proposed to me by him before I saw Thistlewood, and I agreed to be introduced to Thistlewood for that purpose.
Q. And joined a variety of meetings for that purpose till you were apprehended - A. Yes. I was selected for my adroitness at the sword. I and Harrison were to go into the room with swords. The first account I gave of this was on the Saturday after I was taken. I did not give it under the idea that I was to become an evidence.
Q. What, it was from the freedom of your own breast, and not out of any regard for your own neck - A. My conscience accused me of acting wrong. I laid it to heart, and made a solemn vow that if God would spare me I would disclose all.
Q. You had rather thirteen men should be hung on your evidence than that you should be hung yourself. You had none of those feelings till after you was in custody - A. Yes I had prior to that - I had them before I entered the room on that day, but after the man was murdered they were worse; I was much shocked at it, and went down stairs with the sole intention of surrendering myself to the officers, but finding no officers I went home, and did not get out of the way.
Q. Did you think of surrendering yourself the next day - A. I did not think of surrendering myself, or of getting out of the way; I agreed to wait the event.
Q. How many were the most that you think were that night assembled - A. On the 20th of February, in the morning, there were about fifteen - they were all poor men.
Q. Was not the money for the newspaper rose by a subscription of a halfpenny each round the room - A. No, Thistlewood produced it from his pocket.
Q. What was the largest sum of money you ever saw - A. I saw Brunt produce 15 s.
Q. It was proposed not only to murder the ministers, but to take the two guns in Gray's Inn-lane and six in the Artillery Ground, and to seize the Mansion House, where were the forces to come from - A. That I cannot tell. The depot of arms was at Tidd's, kept in a box under his window. I do not know where the grenades or the pike-staves were put. I saw no cannon-ball.
Q. What was to be done with the cannon - A. They intended to put a cartridge into the cannon, and to take a sledge-hammer with them, and knock off the top iron railings of the areas, as they would act better than balls - this was the proposition of Thistlewood. I do not know where the men were to come from.
Q. When did you last see Edwards - A. I have not seen him since the 22d. He was as active as the rest, and seemed to be more close in communication with Thistlewood and Brunt - he communicated the news of the cabinet dinner. The New Times was fetched.
Q. You have given a confused description of what happened in the loft. The unfortunate man that was killed was the man who said,
"Make way! let me come forward" - A. Yes. I saw an arm, but no sword in it. I was at the end of the room, near the bench.
Q. Was not your own arm within sufficient reach to have done that mischief yourself - I do not ask you if you did do it - A. I might have done it with a pistol but not.
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160010"/>with a sword. I was not near enough to do it with a sword. I have no recollection whether the candle was blown out, or whether it went out by the report of the pistol - it was out instantly.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. When you was at Cambray were you carrying on trade among the English officers there - A. Yes. Adjourned.
SECOND DAY, TUESDAY, APRIL 18.
Examination continued.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person43"> ELEANOR WALKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person43" type="surname" value="WALKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person43" type="given" value="ELEANOR"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person43" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am servant to Mrs. Rogers, who lives at No. 4, Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane. Brunt occupied two large and one small room on the second floor - they were front rooms.
Q. In the month of January was there any two pair back room to let - A. Yes. The lodger came in January - he was introduced by Brunt.
Q. How long was this before Brunt was taken up - A. Four or five weeks.
Q. Did Brunt say what he was - A. He said he came from the country, and wanted a room to live in.
Q. Did you find out his name - A. No. The rent was 3 s. a week, unfurnished. He said he should not bring in his goods for a week or better, but never did to my knowledge.
Q. Should you know him again - A. No. I do not remember hearing him called by his name. It was a two-pair back room.
Q. While this person occupied the room did any persons go up and down - A. I have never seen but have heard them.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person44"> MARY ROGERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person44" type="surname" value="ROGERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person44" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person44" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I live in Fox-court, Brunt lodged with me;
<persName id="t18200416-1-person45"> Eleanor Walker
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person45" type="surname" value="Walker"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person45" type="given" value="Eleanor"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person45" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> is my niece and servant.
Q. Did you ever ask Brunt the name of your lodger - A. After he had been in the house about a week I said to him,
"You have brought me a lodger, I hope he is a good one;" he said,
"I have no doubt but he will always pay the rent - I saw him at the public-house enquiring for a lodging." He said he was a butcher. He never slept there. He paid me for four or five weeks.
Q. While he was there did you observe any persons going up and down stairs - A. Yes, when I was putting the children to bed. I have a little door that looks on the landing-place, and I saw them go up.
Q. Have you seen at other times a man going up - A. Yes. I am seldom at home.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person46"> JOSEPH HALE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person46" type="surname" value="HALE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person46" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person46" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am an apprentice to Brunt, and have served him upwards of two years; I lived with him in Fox-court.
Q. Do you remember any person taking the back room in January - A. I do; his name was Ings, a butcher. Brunt and him looked at the room together - Brunt said,
"It will do, go and give them a shilling." Ings after that time came to the room.
Q. Who kept the key of the room - A. It was mostly in Brunt's room; when he wanted to go into the room he came to Brunt's room for it.
Q. From that time till your master was taken up were there any number of persons coming to that room - A. Yes, every evening. I have seen Ings, Tidd, Thistlewood, Edwards, Brunt, Hall, Potter, and Strange.
Q. Do you remember a man of the name of Adams - A. He came, and Davidson, a man of colour. Others used to come, whose names I do not know; they generally staid two hours. I saw no furniture in the room. They used to bring chairs out of Brunt's room. They used to call Thistlewood sometimes T. and sometimes Arthur.
Q. Have you seen poles there - A. I have seen long poles there; they were like branches of trees cut in their rough state, there were about twenty.
Q. Did you at any time hear work going forward in the room - A. Yes, hammering and sawing. On Sunday morning, the 20th of February, there was a meeting in the room. There was more than the usual number of men at it.
Q. Were all the persons you have named there on that day - A. Yes. After the meeting had broken up I saw Strange in my master's room.
Q. Was there any meeting on the Monday evening - A. Yes, and on the Tuesday evening. On Wednesday there were several persons in and out - some of them came into my master's workshop.
Q. They had got some pistols, and were putting new flints into them - A. They had five or six.
Q. Did they finish them there - A. No. Brunt said the people on the opposite side were looking at him; he, Strange, and another man, whom I do not know, went into the back room.
Q. How many did you see in the back room - A. Several, but I cannot say how many. I saw Thistlewood there in the course of the afternoon. He asked me for a sheet of writing-paper, and gave me 6 d., with which I fetched it, and gave him a sheet - he took it, I believe, into the back room. After that a person came out of the back room, and gave me an order to get six sheets of cartridge paper. He gave me 6 d., and I went and bought it, gave it to my master, and he took it into the back room - this was between four and five o'clock in the afternoon. I heard them going away between five and six o'clock - I did not see my master after six - a man went away with him, but not one that I have seen there. I went to the back room to fetch the table for tea, knocked at the door, and Potter gave it to me - there were about four or five persons in the room.
Q. After your master was gone did you see Tidd -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person47">A. </persName> Yes, about seven or eight o'clock, nearly eight. Mrs. Brunt called him, and he went into her room; she took him to a cupboard, shewed him a pike-head and a sword, and asked him what she should do with them? she gave them to him, and I believe he took them into the back room. After that I heard a person go down stairs - a person came into Brunt's room, and left word that if any one came, to send them to the White Hart. Some persons came, and I went and showed them the way.
Q. Did any person come that knew the way - A. Yes, Potter, he knew the way - the others I showed to the White Hart.
Q. Was there any person with Potter - A. Yes. My master came home that night about nine o'clock. He was dirty, and seemed confused. He said to his wife,
"It is all up," or words to that effect. He said that where he
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160011"/>had been there were a great many officers came. He said he had saved his life, and that was all, Just as he had said that, another man came in, but I do not know his name - Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had informed against them? he said No. Brunt said he had a dreadful blow on the side, and was knocked down - he said there was something to be done yet, and after that they went away together. After they were gone I and Mrs. Brunt went into Ings' room at the back; I saw a pole, several rolls of paper with tar in them, and cartridge paper tied up - there were some parcels with string round them. I also saw a large iron pot, which he used himself.
Q. About what time did your master come home on Wednesday night - A. About eleven o'clock; he told me to get up in the morning, and clean his boots, they were very dirty. He called me up about half-past six o'clock, and asked me if I knew Snow's-fields, Borough? I told him no. After this we went into the back room; he told me to go for a basket, and put the things into it, which we did. He told me it was to go to Potter's, in Snow's-fields - one of the baskets was put into a blue apron - it was Mrs. Brunt's apron.
Q. What use had been made of that apron before - A. It was put up as a curtain in Ings' room - the other basket was not covered. We went into Brunt's room to look for something, when two officers came in, took him into custody, and searched the room.
Q. Where did Tidd live - A. In the Hole in the Wall-passage - Adams lived next door to him - I have been to both their houses.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Is your master a journeyman - A. No. Tidd is a shoemaker, not in very poor circumstances. Ings had the parties there, I believe, every night - the most was on the Sunday morning; there were about twenty. I saw them go up, and knew some of them.
Q. Do you know Strange - A. Yes, he sells shoes in a shop. Edwards was there very often - he is an artist. I do not know any thing more of him than that he was an artist. He was there more than Adams, but I cannot say how often. Edwards was there almost every day. I know Hall, he is a tailor.
Q. How many have you seen there together - A. Not more than four. The baskets were common rush baskets - they were filled; there were nearly twenty branches in a green raw state. I do not know how they were brought in - there was but one left in the morning. There was a fire in the room, but I do not know whether they were cut up for the fire.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person48"> THOMAS SMART
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person48" type="surname" value="SMART"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person48" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person48" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a watchman of St. George, Hanover-square. I was on duty on the 22d of February - my duty lies on the south side of Grosvenor-square; I go on duty at eight o'clock. Soon after I was on the watch I saw four very suspicious persons walking about the square; one was a tall man, and the other was a black man. I watched them - they were looking down the areas. Blissett was on duty at the same time.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. It is very common to see suspicious persons - A. Yes.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person49"> HENRY GILLON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person49" type="surname" value="GILLON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person49" type="given" value="HENRY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person49" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 16, Mount-street, Grosvenor-square; I am servant to Mr. Whittle, who is an apothecary. I used to go to the Rising Sun, public-house, in Charles-street, leading from Mount-street to Grosvenor-square, at the corner of the mews. I remember being there on Tuesday, the 22d of February. I saw Brunt there - a tall man was with him.
Q. Did they take any refreshment - A. Yes, bread, cheese, and porter. Brunt challenged me to play him at dominoes, and I played two games with him. I left the house first, a little before ten o'clock. I left them there.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person50"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person50" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person50" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person50" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a journeyman cutler to Mr. Underwood, Drury-lane. About Christmas a man brought a sword to my master's shop - it was on Christmas Eve.
Q. How was he dressed - A. He was dressed like a butcher. He asked me if I ground swords? I said Yes. He left it for me to grind and set, particularly the point; he brought it without a scabbard, under his frock. I asked him what name, he said Ings - he called for it in about three days. He called in about a fortnight with another - it was a very long one a cavalry sword. He said he wished it to be ground the same as the other, and it was ground for him. (It was the prisoner, Ings). It was the sword shewn to me by the officer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person51"> EDWARD SIMPSON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person51" type="surname" value="SIMPSON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person51" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person51" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am corporal major in the second regiment of Life Guards. I know a man of the name of Harrison; he was in the same regiment. He was discharged in the year 1814.
Q. At the time he was in the regiment had he an opportunity of knowing King-street barracks - A. He had an opportunity of knowing them. One part of the barracks looks into the mews; there are five windows in the loft, where there was hay and straw - I have seen Harrison in the loft. The windows were stopped up soon after the affair in Cato-street.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. How many men are there at the barracks at Knightsbridge - A. About three hundred. I do not know a man of the name of Adams.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person52"> JAMES ALDOUS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person52" type="surname" value="ALDOUS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person52" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person52" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a pawnbroker, and live in Berwick-street. I know Davidson by his pledging goods at my shop. On the 23d of February, in the morning, he came and took out a blunderbuss.
Q. What sort of one was it - A. It was a brass-barrelled one.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person53"> THOMAS HIDON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person53" type="surname" value="HIDON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person53" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person53" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . Q. What are you - A. I am a milkman - I have been a cowkeeper. I was formerly a member of the Shoe Club.
Q. Do you know the prisoner, Wilson - A. Yes. I saw him a few days before the 23d of February; he made propositions to me to make one of a party to destroy his Majesty's ministers - he told me they were waiting for a cabinet dinner, and all things were ready. He said they had got such sort of things as I never saw - he called them hand grenades; he said they depended upon me to be one, and said that Mr. Thistlewood would be glad to see me if I would be one.
Q. Did he tell you how they were to be used - A. He told me the hand grenades were to be lighted by a fusee, and thrown into the room, and those who escaped the conflagration were to die by the sword, or some other way; he said they meant to light up a few fires, and that would
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160012"/>keep up the alarm for a few days until it became general. He mentioned some particular houses.
Q. What houses did he mention - A. Lord Harrowby's, Lord Castlereagh's, Lord Wellington's, Lord Sidmouth's, the Bishop of London's, and some others, which I do not remember. I told him I would be one.
Q. How many days was this before the discovery at Cato-street - A. Four or five days. I went to Lord Harrowby's house to give him information, followed his Lordship into the Park, and gave him a note; on Wednesday, the 23d, I saw Wilson again between four and five o'clock. I saw him again in Manchester-street, Manchester-square; when he met me he said,
"You are the man I want to see, for there is going to be a cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby's in Grosvenor-square." I asked him where I was to go to? he said, to the Horse and Groom, public-house, in Cato-street, or I was to wait at the corner till I was shown into a stable close by. I asked him what time? he said between five and six o'clock. I asked him how many there were? he said about twenty or thirty.
Q. Did he tell you if there was another place - A. He said there was another party in the Borough, another in Gray's Inn-lane, and another in the City, or Gee's-court, Oxford-street, I am not certain which; he said all Gee's-court were in it, and they were chiefly Irish, but they would not act till the English began, for the English had deceived them before. He told me that there was a gentleman's servant who had supplied some of the party with money, and he said if they would act upon the subject he would give a great deal more. He asked me if I had a gun? I said Yes, but it was a rubbishing one - he said they would provide me with a gun. He told me there were two cannons in Gray's Inn-lane, which they could get by breaking in at a small door.
Q. Did he mention any place in the City where there were cannon - A. He said there were four pieces of cannon in the Artillery-ground, which they would get by killing the centinel; he further said, that after doing the grand thing in Grosvenor-square, they were to retreat, and meet somewhere near the Mansion House. He told me to be sure and come to my time, or the grand thing would be done before I came.
Q. Did you go to John-street - A. Yes, about seven o'clock. The entrance from John-street to Cato-street is under a gateway - when I got to the gateway I saw Davidson and Wilson.
Q. Had you seen Davidson before - A. Yes.
Q. Did Davidson speak to you - A. He said,
"You are come." I said, Yes, but I was behind my time. He asked me to go in, but I said I could not, as I was going for some cream; he said if I would Mr. Thistlewood was there. Davidson has called at my house, and I have been denied to him - he has called with three or four friends. I asked him what time they should leave there? he said about eight o'clock.
Q. Did he tell you what to do if you came after your time - A. He told me if they were gone to come to the fourth house down Grosvenor-square, and there I should find them - he told me the bottom part, near Bond-street.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. How many days before the 23d - A. About three or four days.
Q. Was it before Sunday - A. I am not certain.
Q. After that time when did you see him - A. I saw nothing of him till the 23d. I never went with him anywhere. I went to Lord Harrowby's house, and gave information.
Q. How long after you gave information was it that you saw Wilson - A. About two or three days.
Q. All this communication was made to you as you walked up and down Manchester-street - A. Yes, and by the barracks.
Q. How long were you together - A. We were about three-quarters of an hour together.
Re-examined by MR. GURNEY - (a letter shewn to the witness) Q. Is that the letter you gave to Lord Harrowby - A. Yes, it is.
A JUROR. Q. Is it your writing - A. Yes.
MR. GURNEY. Q. Why did you go to Lord Harrowby - - A. Because I could not find Lord Castlereagh at home. I went two or three times. The words
"His Majesty's ministers" were used.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person54"> LORD HARROWBY
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person54" type="surname" value="HARROWBY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person54" type="given" value="LORD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person54" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Grosvenor-square, on the south side, near Charles-street, next door to the Archbi-shop of York.
Q. Is your Lordship a Privy Counsellor - A. I am.
Q. As well as one of His Majesty's ministers -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person55">A. </persName> Yes. I remember in the month of February intending to give a cabinet dinner on Wednesday, the 23d. At a cabinet dinner no person is invited but those who compose the Cabinet.
Q. Do you know what day the invitations were issued - A. I think the latter end of the preceding week, but my servant will be better able to speak to that.
Q. What noblemen and gentlemen compose the company - A. Lord Liverpool, First Lord of the Treasury; Mr. Vansittart, Chancellor of the Exchequer; Earls Bathurst, Sidmouth, and Lord Castlereagh, the Secretaries of State;
<persName id="t18200416-1-person56"> Earl Westmoreland
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person56" type="surname" value="Westmoreland"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person56" type="given" value="Earl"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person56" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , Privy Seal; Lord Melville, First Lord of the Admiralty; the Duke of Wellington, Master General of the Ordnance; Wellesley Pole, Master of the Mint;
<persName id="t18200416-1-person57"> Earl Mulgrave
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person57" type="surname" value="Mulgrave"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person57" type="given" value="Earl"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person57" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , and Mr. Canning.
Q. Are all these noblemen and gentlemen Privy Counsellors, and are they employed in the administration of the Government, and called his Majesty's ministers - A. Yes.
Q. Does your Lordship remember any day previous to the intended dinner receiving a letter - A. I was riding in the Park about two o'clock on Tuesday; as I came near Grosvenor-gate a person came up to me, and asked if I was Lord Harrowby? I said I was. He said he wished a letter to be given to Lord Castlereagh, which very much concerned his Lordship and myself - he gave me a letter.
Q. Is that it - A. Yes. I asked him if he had put his name and address to it? he said No, and gave me a card of his address - (this is the card). After some other conversation with the man he left me.
Q. Is the last witness the man - A. Yes. I saw him by appointment on Wednesday morning in the Park.
Q. Did the dinner take place on Wednesday - A. No, it did not. The noblemen and gentlemen did not come, but all the preparations went on. I wrote a note to Lord Liverpool, &c.
Q. About what time would they have met - A. Between seven and eight o'clock.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160013"/>Cross-examined. Q. Does your Lordship know a man of the name of Edwards - A. No, I never saw him.
Q. Had your Lordship any knowledge of it before - A. For sometime; three or four weeks before we had suspected something.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person58"> JOHN BAKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person58" type="surname" value="BAKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person58" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person58" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am butler to Lord Harrowby. I remember a cabinet dinner was intended to be given on the 23d at Lord Harrowby's. In consequence of the late King's death the cabinet dinner had been suspended.
Q. How long before the 23d had cards been issued - A. On the 18th or 19th - I think Saturday, the 19th.
Q. On Wednesday, when the dinner was to have been, were the preparations made as usual - A. Yes; I heard there would be no cabinet dinner there about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. Does the Archbishop of York live on one side of Lord Harrowby - A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any carriages there - A. Yes, about seven o'clock driving to the door.
JOHN MONUMENT. I am a shoemaker, and live at No. 8, Garden-court, Baldwin's-gardens, I am now a prisoner in the Tower. I remember meeting Thistlewood at a person's of the name of Ford. About two months before the 23d he called on me at my lodgings, Brunt was with him. After he had been there five minutes he said he wished to speak with me, and I went out of the room with him. My mother and brother were in the room.
Q. Did you, in consequence of that, go out of the room with him - A. Yes, I did; Brunt staid behind. Thistlewood said,
"Great events are at hand, the people are every where anxious for a change." He said he had been promised support by a great many who had deceived him, but now he had got men who would stand by him. He then asked me if I had any arms? I said No, I had not - he said that every man ought to be armed. He said some had got a pistol, and others a pike or sword.
Q. Who did he mean - A. Those that would stand by him. He said I might buy a pistol for 4 s. or 5 s.; I said I had no money to buy pistols with, he said he would see what could be done. That was all that passed at that time. Brunt called about two or three days afterwards, but nothing particular passed; he said he had several others in our trade to call upon. I remember Brunt calling on me on the 22d of February - I believe that was the next time, it was on that day, he was accompanied by Tidd.
Q. What was said between you and Tidd - A. I said I thought I had lost him, and asked him the reason why he staid away so long? he said the death of the King had made an alteration in their plans. I asked him what plans? he said you will know at the meeting that is to take place. I asked him where this meeting was to be held? he said at Tyburn turnpike. I asked him if I saw any person there how I was to know them? he turned round to Tidd, and asked him if he should tell me the word? he said Yes, he supposed there was no danger; upon this Brunt said, if any persons were about I was to say B. U. T, and if friends they would answer T. O. N. He said he should call on the following morning, and tell me more particulars then. Brunt called next day between four and five o'clock; he called me down stairs, and asked me if I was ready to go with him? I said I had some work that must be done - my brother was then in the room. When I told him I could not go till the work done; he asked me when that would be? I said six o'clock. He said he could not wait for me, but I must go to Tidd's; he told me he lived in Hole in the Wall passage; he told me no more, but not to be later than six o'clock, for Tidd had more men to take with him. I went to Tidd's house about half-past six, he was at home. Tidd said that several of the men that had promised to come were not as good as their word, and he should not wait longer than seven o'clock. We waited till seven, and no other persons having arrived, he went to the corner of the room to a trunk, took out a pistol, and put it into a belt that was round his body, also six or seven pike heads in a brown paper, and a staff about four feet long, with a hole in it fit to receive any thing - the pistol was under the great coat he had on. I went down stairs with him, through Brook-street, Holborn, and Oxford-street. I asked him where we were to go to? he said to a mews in John-street, Edgware-road. When we got into Holborn he gave me the pike-staff, and told me to take it; I asked him what it was for? He said I should know all about it when I got there. I asked him if we were going to the House of Commons? he said No, there were too many soldiers near there. I then asked him where we were going to? he said Grosvenor-square. I asked him if there were any particular persons living there? he said there was to be a cabinet dinner there that evening - we then went up Oxford-street, Edgware-road to Cato-street. When we got to the gateway leading to Cato-street we met two men whom Tidd seemed to know, and after a few moments we went into the stable. We went up stairs - there were in the stable and loft about twenty-four or twenty-five persons; it was proposed to count them, but Thistlewood said it was not necessary for there were twenty-five. While I was there a man was sitting on the bench with two pistols in his belt - he was a tall thin man with a brown great coat. He spoke of the impropriety of going to Lord Harrowby's with so few men, but Mr. Thistlewood said there were quite enough for he only wanted fourteen men to go into the house, and even if there were sixteen servants that would be enough. The man in the great coat said when the thing was done there would be a crowd collected, and how were they to escape. Davidson told this man it was not right to throw cold water on it for if he did not like it he might go, and they could do without him. Brunt said that sooner than give up the business he would go into the room and blow them up if he perished with them, for we knew they had the thing that would do it. The man said although all things were not right he would not be against it as they were all for it; he then proposed that they should put themselves under the order of Mr. Thistlewood, to which Thistlewood said that every one should have the same honour as himself; he then proposed that fourteen men should volunteer to go into the room. Twelve or thirteen of them in the room did volunteer, and arranged themselves in a few minutes on the side of the small room - there was nothing said about the rest. Tidd spoke to me about choosing my place, but Thistlewood said, putting him back,
"You all know your places." After Thistlewood had gone out for a few minutes he returned, and said they had received information that Lords Sidmouth and Wellington had arrived. I do not recollect
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160014"/>any thing else passing till the officers came up. I was taken into custody in the room.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. You never spoke to Thistlewood before the time I saw him at Ford's - A. No. I attended the Finsbury meeting.
Q. Do you know when the meeting in Finsbury Market-place was held - A. I think it was before Christmas.
Q. Was the meeting about the Manchester business - A. I do not know. I had no particular acquaintance with Thistlewood; I never saw Brunt before Thistlewood brought him to me - I do not know Edwards. There was a great while passed between the times of my seeing Brunt - I thought I had lost him. I was to say on meeting the man
"BUT" and he would answer
"TON." There were twenty-five in the room where we were - the ceiling was as high as I can reach; there was a carpenter's bench in the room - no one could stand on the bench. The man in the brown great coat was not Adams - I saw him at Hicks's Hall - I did not go much about the room; I stood near the bench most all the time. I do not know whether there was any other tall man; they were eating bread and cheese, and drinking porter - I cannot remember whether Adams was there; I am not sure that he was not there - I have not the least recollection of seeing him. I saw the prisoners, Davidson, Thistlewood, Tidd, and Brunt; I saw Strange as I was standing by the side of him. I have told all; I cannot tell any thing about Adams. If any person had spoke like the man in the brown coat I should have heard him; the room would not hold twenty more, but it would ten - I should have heard if any body had spoken; I had quite lost Tidd until the 22d. The conversation between Thistlewood and the man in the brown coat was loud enough to be heard.
Q. You are honourably attended I see - A. Yes. I was taken on the spot; I made no resistance, nor had I any arms.
Re-examined by MR. GURNEY. I was one of the last that went into the room, about half an hour before the officers came. I know no more of the prisoners except as before stated - it was candlelight.
Q. What was there on the bench you have been speaking of - A. A great many pistols and blunder busses Strange was taken into custody with one - there were four in the room. When I was going to be examined before the Privy Council I was hand-cuffed to Thistlewood; he told me that when I was examined by the Privy Council to say that it was Edwards who took me to the meeting. I asked him how I could tell such a falsehood when I had never seen the man? He laughed and said, that was of no consequence, I was to say that he was not much taller than myself, that he had a sallow complexion, and dressed in a brown great coat.
JURY. Q. Have you since your apprehension had any conversation with a man of the name of Adams - A. No, nothing relating to this business. I have never seen him only when he has been up as a witness.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person59"> THOMAS MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person59" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person59" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person59" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am brother to the last witness. I remember Thistlewood calling on my brother. I know Brunt - Thistlewood brought him with him; they did not stay above five or ten minutes - there was some conversation. Thistlewood asked if he might be permitted to speak to him, and they went out of the room together; they did not remain out of the room more than two or three minutes, then returned, and Thistlewood and Brunt went out together. On the Tuesday before the Cato-street business he called on my brother with a man of the name of Tidd. When they came into the room my brother said,
"Brunt I thought I had lost you, I have not seen you for some time." Brunt said that was in consequence of the death of the King, and they had made some alterations in their plans. My brother asked them what those plans were? he said they had different objects in view. Brunt asked my brother to meet him at Tyburn turnpike next evening, which he agreed to. Brunt said to Tidd,
"Suppose we give him an outline of the plan, then said, if he would come to Tyburn turnpike they would tell him, and if any of their party was there he was to say B.U.T. and if they were friends they would answer T.O.N. They did not press me to go, it was to my brother he spoke - I did not go. My brother went out about seven o'clock; Brunt called about five o'clock, but he was busy and could not go. He told him to call upon Tidd who lived in Hole in the Wall-passage. About seven o'clock my brother went, but I did not.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. You was in the room when the conversation passed - A. Yes. I never saw Brunt before that evening - I know nothing of any of them. I had no idea what the meeting was for, nor did I ever ask.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person60"> THOMAS DWYER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person60" type="surname" value="DWYER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person60" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person60" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Gee's-court, Oxford-street. In the month of February I became acquainted with Davidson; I saw him twice before the 23d - he introduced me to Thistlewood. We went to a house in Molineux-street, at this end of Cato-street; It was Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, about the 9th, 10th or 11th. Thistlewood said he had been in five or six revolutions. He said that Ireland was in a disturbed sate, and that he had a great many of my countrymen to join him. I saw Davidson in the afternoon of the 22d of February - he said he was going on centry - he did not make any appointment with me for the 23d. A person called on me, and we went to Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane, it was Harrison - he had a bundle wrapped up in paper. We went to the two pair back room,; the room door was locked then, I believe. He knocked at the front door, and a woman gave him the key - there was an old chair in the room; I afterwards saw a ball wrapped up in rope-yarn. Harrison told me it was a hand-grenade, but did not tell me what was to be done with it. Thistlewood, Davidson and a few other persons came in; Davidson had a blunderbuss, a pair of pistols, and a bayonet in his side pocket - other persons came in, whose names I do not know. After Davidson had shewn the pistols he said he had given 12 s. for them; Brunt said he would go out and by a pair. Thistlewood said that some of the hand-grenades were to be thrown into the horse barracks, and some into Lord Harrowby's house to set it on fire and blow them up. Thistlewood asked me how many of my countrymen I could muster? and said he should want them at half-past eight o'clock that evening. I told him twenty-six or twenty-seven. He told me I was to muster at the Pomfret Castle, public-house, in Wigmore-street, that is a house a great deal frequented by Irishmen. He told me I was to take some of the best of them to the Foundling Hospital, knock at the porter's lodge, put a pistol to his head, and at the other lodge we should find
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160015"/>twenty-five or twenty-six stand of arms; at the same time another party would seize the cannon at the riding school of the London Light Horse, Gray's Inn-lane. He said some would go on to Finsbury-square, that there was to be a cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby's, and they were to attack his house.
Q. After that did you see a bundle taken out of the cupboard - A. Yes, it contained gunpowder, it was measured into bags; there were several of them - Harrison did it. I heard Thistlewood speaking generally to them all; he said that twelve pike heads were to be taken to Marylebone, some to Finsbury, and some elsewhere. I was asked to take some which I refused - they were not in the room. I saw the powder and grenades put into the bags, and taken to the Horse and Groom, Cato-street, by Harrison; the grenades and powder was put into a sack.
Q. About what time did you leave the room - A. I got to my place about twelve o'clock. I told a gentleman of the name of Major James what I had heard, and in consequence of what he said I went to the Secretary of State about half-past two o'clock.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. What are you - A. A bricklayer. That was the first time I saw Davidson, it was about the 9th. I never knew any of the party before.
Q. They never knew you, yet they let you into the secret - A. Yes.
Q. And that at an accidental meeting - A. Yes. I do not know what was the meaning of their telling me about it. I agreed to get twenty-five or twenty-six men. I was to go to the Foundling Hospital and get some arms. I I agreed to go, but I did not intend to go. I do not know a man of the name of Hucklestone. I never was here only as a witness. I was in Ireland at the time of the rebellion, but was quite a boy.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person61"> GEORGE CAYLOCK
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person61" type="surname" value="CAYLOCK"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person61" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person61" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 2, Cato-street. On the 23d of February I saw Harrison - I knew him before - I saw him standing against the stable door in Cato-street, with a candlestick in his hand. I asked him how he did - he said very well; he said he had taken two chambers there, and was going to clean them up - this was about five o'clock; in the evening I saw from 20 to 25 persons go in and out between five and seven o'clock.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person62"> RICHARD MUNDAY
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person62" type="surname" value="MUNDAY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person62" type="given" value="RICHARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person62" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 3, Cato-street. I remember in the afternoon of the 23d of February, about twenty minutes past four o'clock, seeing Davidson walking in the archway - I knew him, having seen him at Firth's. I saw Harrison about six o'clock open the cow-house door, and shut it again; in coming home again from the chandler's shop about five, I saw Davidson again in the archway - he went to get a light from a woman - he had another in his hand. On his opening the door I saw a bundle, which I thought was a quartern loaf, two pistols in his belt, and a sword; Harrison opened the door and let him in. There were several persons going in and out - and when the door was half open I saw seven or eight. It formerly belonged to General Watson, Mr. Firth turned it into a cowhouse, and kept five cows in it; there is a loft above - one of the rooms is a small dark bed-room, with a fire-place near the window. The place was cleaned out about five or six weeks ago. There was a kind of hempen sack at the window, and over the door likewise; I saw it up at the window at three o'clock.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person63"> ELIZA WESTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person63" type="surname" value="WESTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person63" type="given" value="ELIZA"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person63" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I live at No. 1, Cato-street. On the 23d of February, as I was standing at my door, I saw a man with a bag in his left hand, and a key in his right - he unlocked the stable-door. About six o'clock I had occasion to go out on an errand, I passed the stable, and saw a man of colour standing at the door; I returned in about ten minutes, and saw him standing at the same place, at which I was frightened, as the stables had been shut so long. After I had been in a short time there was a knock at the door, which I opened, and the same man asked me to give him a light, which I did - he had two candles, one of which he lit, and went into the stable.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN. I am a constable of Bow-street. I went in consequence of information to Cato-street - three or four others I knew would meet me there. When I arrived I found our party amounted to about twelve. I went into a stable, and saw a man with a blunderbuss and a sword, this was about half-past eight o'clock - (I am not certain that I saw more than one) - the whole party followed me into the stable. When I saw the man with the blunderbuss, I told some of the party to secure him. I then went up a ladder; nothing was said by the man, for it was not a minute before I was up the ladder. I saw in the loft several men, and heard the clattering of arms, pistols and swords; three or four were with me. Ellis and Smithers were there, but I am not certain who else were with me. I thought, from the slight view I had of the parties, there were about twenty-four or twenty-five. The room is fifteen feet five inches by ten feet ten. There are two rooms, which communicate with each other by a door. On going into the room I said,
"We are officers, seize their arms!" I saw Thistlewood in the room, I have known him four or five years; he was standing on the right-hand side of the table, near the little room. He looked up, took up a sword, and then retreated towards the little room - the sword was drawn at the time he seized it; it was a very long one and bright. He retreated into the little room, and stood fencing, to prevent any person from coming to him. Smithers approached him, he trust his hand forward and stabbed him - Smithers fell, and in falling cried out
"Oh, my God!" The lights were put out, and some person near the spot where Thistlewood was standing said,
"Kill the b - rs, throw them down stairs!" There were about eight lights. When we were in the dark I heard a rush towards the ladder, and a cry of Kill them! I then went into John-street, and met the soldiers. There were about twenty shots fired, some of which were from the window. On my return I saw Tidd lift up his hand as if to fire; I seized his right hand, we fell, and the pistol went off; the soldiers then came up and I secured him. I searched him, and found a buff leather belt, I also found two ball cartridges in his pocket - this was at the Horse and Groom. I also searched Brunt, and round his waist I found a string which went several times round, to answer the purpose of a belt. He had six ball cartridges and three loose balls, on him. Davidson and Wilson were then brought - I did not search them. Davidson said,
"D - n the man that would not die in liborty's cause," and sang part of
"Scots wha hae wi' Wallace bled. When I went again to the loft I found it in possession of the soldiers and some of the officers. I there found Strange, Cooper, Monument,
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160016"/>and Gilchrist on my going into the room - I told the officers to search the rooms, and each take care of what he found. I found two swords, ten hand grenades of one size, and two parcels of tow, as it appeared to me; one of them was nearly as large as my hat - they were taken to Bow-street, and are now in the possession of an officer; I have seen them at Bow-street, they are the same. Before I went to the stable I went into the Horse and Groom, public-house; I saw three or four persons come in, Cooper was one and Gilchrist another; Cooper brought a stick with him, it was a mop-stick or a broomstick, it was left in the room. Gilchrist came again after it, but it had been removed by the boy belonging to the house - it was cut as if to receive a socket. Next day I had a dirk stick brought to me.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. How long have you known Thistlewood - A. Ever since the trial in 1817. I do not know how long he has been out of Horsham gaol. Within the three weeks previous to the 23d I saw him five or six times. We have four or five persons of the name of Edwards in our office. I have been employed to look after Thistlewood. I do not know any other Edwards.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person64"> JOHN ELLIS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person64" type="surname" value="ELLIS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person64" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person64" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the conductors of the patrol at Bow-street. On the 23d of February I went with the other officers to Cato-street. I go to the stable about half-past eight o'clock, as near as I can guess, and on going into the stable I observed two men - the first man nearest to me had a white belt over each shoulder, they were cross-belts, and on his right side he had either a carbine or short shoulder-piece, and in his left hand, or by his left side, a large sword. On coming close to him I took him by the collar, and turned him half round - I observed he was a man of colour. The other person was between the foot of the ladder and the manger, in the stall nearest to the ladder. I followed Ruthven up the ladder as close as I could walk. When we were going up the ladder, I think it was before I gained the first step of the ladder, I heard the black man give notice to those above; the last word he said was men - I did not distinctly hear the other words. On my going to the top of the ladder I observed a number of men falling back from the carpenter's bench close against the wall. As I entered the loft I heard a noise of swords clashing, like two people fencing - there might be from twenty to twenty-five men in the room as far as I can guess. On gaining the top of the ladder there were three or four men attempting to gain the little room the farthest from the ladder, which looked into the street. The moment I gained the top of the ladder Ruthven called out,
"We are officers, surrender your arms," or
"seize their arms," I cannot recollect which.
Q. Did you observe Smithers doing any thing - A. Not immediately. Previous to that, Thistlewood, whom I now know and am perfectly satisfied he is the man; he held his sword in a threatening attitude, I held out my staff at him, I was about five feet from him - he still menaced me with his sword; I held up my pistol in my right hand, and desired him to desist or I would fire. At that moment Smithers had gained the top of the ladder, and rushed forward towards the little room - Thistlewood and the other men who were in the room, got backwards some feet into the middle of the room, and on Smithers going to the door Thistlewood rushed forward, and stuck him with the sword near his right breast; on that I saw Smithers' arms extended, he said,
"Oh my God!" and staggered against me; on seeing that I immediately fired my pistol towards Thistlewood, but without effect. At the moment I fired, Smithers staggered against me and fell dead. The last light I saw was the flash of my own pistol - the candles were put out. At that moment I was forced down the ladder by the rush that was made. I went to the doorway in Cato-street; several shots were fired from some part of the stable; at that time one or two men passed me at the door. I saw one shot fired by a tall man who stood under the ladder.
Q. Were any shots fired out of the little room - A. Yes, some were fired out of the window of the little room; they were apparently fired towards the door of the stable.
Q. Did you pursue a man down Cato-street - A. I heard a cry of Stop him! and saw a man running with his belts on towards Queen-street, I pursued and took him about seventy or eighty yards from the stable; it was Davidson, the man of colour; he had a carbine in his right hand, and in his left hand was a long sword - I believe him to be the man I first saw in the stable. I assisted in securing four others in the loft; I am not certain who they were - I recollect Monument to be one.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. What situation do you hold - A. I am conductor of the patrol; Ruthven was the principal officer - I had the warrant.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person65"> WILLIAM WESTCOAT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person65" type="surname" value="WESTCOAT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person65" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person65" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the conductors of the patrol at Bow-street. I went with the other officers to Cato-street, Edgware-road, on the 23d of February.
COURT. Q. Are you a constable also - A. Yes, my Lord, we are all sworn in as constables at Bow-street. I am sworn in, and so were Ruthven, Smithers, and Nixon.
MR. GURNEY. Q. Did Ruthven, Ellis, and Smithers go first up to the loft - A. I heard fireing in the loft. I remained in the stable the whole of the time, and observed Ings in the stable.
Q. What did Ings do or attempt to do - A. He attempted to run out, but I collared him, and he and I had a contest against the wall. There was terrible confusion in the loft and a great bustle - some came tumbling down the ladder, and some came singly.
Q. Did you observe any of those whose faces you knew - A. I did, it was Thistlewood - there was a light in the stable at the time. He came down, and turned round, presented a pistol at my head, and fired at me - the pistol was fired a few yards from me, the ball went through my hat - there are three holes in it; I afterwards made a rush towards him, and received a blow on the right side of my head. I do not know whether the blow was given with a weapon or a fist. I fell down, and Thistlewood made a cut at me with something like a sword, and went out of the stable-door; I attempted to follow him, he got out of my sight directly, and I was wounded by a ball in my wrist.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person66"> LUKE NIXON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person66" type="surname" value="NIXON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person66" type="given" value="LUKE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person66" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the Bow-street officers. I went to Cato-street on the 23d of February, when I first got to the stable I saw a light at the top of the door, by the ladder, Ruthven, Ellis, Smithers, and Gibbs went up, I followed them - by the time I got up the lights were
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160017"/>all out. I remained for half a minute, and saw Ellis fire a pistol into the little room; I thought it was them fireing at him. Another pistol or two were fired from the little room, then there was a rush, and I fell backward, and hit my leg against something, I cut it, hit my head, and fell down to the bottom of the stairs. There came a rush of persons down, one of whom I saw present a pistol, I really believe it was Thistlewood. He presented it against Westcoat, but having only a side view of him I could not distinctly see.
Q. At that time had Westcoat apprehended anybody - A. He had Ings in custody, but he got away from him afterwards, and I pursued him. He was brought back again, and taken by Wright, I believe.
Q. Some time after did you go to the stable - A. Yes, and found a sword there, went up again to the loft, and found a bayonet; I saw Ruthven find a bag, which on being opened contained a quantity of ball. As I was going down stairs with the combustibles I found a tin can wrapped round with paper; I found about 7 lbs. or 8 lbs. of powder in it, and gave it to Ruthven.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person67"> JOHN WRIGHT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person67" type="surname" value="WRIGHT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person67" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person67" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a patrol of Bow-street, and was one of the party of officers that went to Cato-street. I went to the Horse and Groom, public-house with Ruthven; Cooper and another came in and had a pint of porter. Cooper brought a stick and left it behind him - it was like a broom-stick. I afterwards saw it in the custody of Ruthven.
Q. Did you afterwards accompany the party to the stable - A. Yes, and after we had got three or four steps up the ladder we were driven back again. I turned round, and observed a stoutish man in the further stall - he had a great coat on; I observed something shining under his coat, took it from him, and found it was a sword; I also took a butcher's knife from his side - the handle was tied round with wax-end.
Q. Did you take that man into custody or did he escape - A. I was knocked down, and he escaped. The moment I was knocked down I received a stab in my side; I got up and went out. Shortly after the soldiers came down, and stopped me, but I told them I was an officer; Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person68">Fitzclarence</persName> went into the stable, and Wilson and Bradburn were brought out. I searched Wilson, and found some ball cartridges in his pocket, and a haversack suspended across his shoulder and hung on his right side; there were about two dozen ball cartridges in it, a pair of scissors, and a gun-flint or two.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person69"> WILLIAM CHARLES BROOKS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person69" type="surname" value="CHARLES BROOKS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person69" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person69" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the Bow-street patrols. On Wednesday evening, the 23d of February, I had just turned into the corner of John-street, Edgware-road, and asked a coachman some questions respecting some men, when Mr. Birnie came up to me, and said,
"Run Brooks!" and pointed over the way. I saw Ings and another man before him with a cutlass, but I could not then distinguish whether the man with the cutlass was one of our party or not. I saw Ings with a pistol in his hand; he presented it at the other man, then turned round, presented it at me, and said,
"I will shoot you," fired, and the shot passed through my great coat, close coat, and waistcoat, grazed my shoulder, and I believe went out at the back of my neck.
Q. After he fired what did he do - A. I staggered into the road, and he also came into the road to avoid the other man, as I suppose, and went into Edgware-road - John-street leads into Edgware-road. I pursued him, and just as he turned the corner, he flung the pistol from him; I called out to stop him, and he was stopped by Moye, the watchman. I saw him lay hold of him about a second before I did. I said to him,
"You rascal! why did you fire at me, a man you never saw before?" He swore at me, and said,
"To kill you, and I wish I had done it, for I know I shall be hung for what I have done."
COURT. Q. Are you quite sure those were his expressions - A. Yes.
Prisoner INGS. It is false.
COURT. You are not now upon trial.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person70"> WILLIAM CHARLES BROOKS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person70" type="surname" value="CHARLES BROOKS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person70" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person70" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> (in continuation). We took him down to Marylebone watch-house. I said,
"If you offer to put your hand into one of your pockets I will knock you down." He said, Well, I might as well knock his brains out then as bye-and-bye. I searched him at the watch-house, and found two haversacks, one over each shoulder, under his great coat, and slung under his arms. I found a belt buttoned round him, apparently to hold two brace of pistols on each side; I pulled a tin can from his right-hand coat pocket about three parts full of powder; I saw Champion pull three slugs from his pocket, and a knife-case was found on him about a foot long. He was confined, and I returned to the stable.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person71"> GILES FRANKLIN MOVE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person71" type="surname" value="FRANKLIN MOVE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person71" type="given" value="GILES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person71" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a watchman. On Wednesday, the 23d of February, I was on my beat in the Edgware-road, and heard a discharge of fire-arms. I immediately went down the road, and as soon as I got to the end of John-street I saw a man come out of that street, and fire either a carbine or pistol. I saw Brooks, the last witness, stagger; another man called out Stop thief! and I stopped him. He caught my stick in his hand; I took him into custody, and kept him till Brooks came up - he was searched. I found some powder in a tin can on him, two bags under his coat, and a knife-case, also a belt on each side to hold pistols.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person72"> JOSEPH CHAMPION
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person72" type="surname" value="CHAMPION"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person72" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person72" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the Bow-steet officers. I accompanied them to Cato-street on the 23d of February - Ings was the first man I saw in the stable - I did not know him before. On the other officers going up the ladder Ings held up his head, and said,
"Look out above there!" as a signal; he was standing with his back against the wall facing the ladder - he was afterwards apprehended. I took out of his jacket pocket the case of a knife, four pistol-balls, and the key of a pistol, at Marylebone watch-house.
Q. After the officers were driven down the ladder did you see any persons escaping - A. I saw nobody in the stable. I saw Thistlewood in Cato-street with a sword in his hand, which he moved twice or thrice across his body, though no person was near him.
CAPTAIN FITZCLARENCE. I am Lieutenant of the Coldstream Guards. I recollect on Wednesday, the 23d of February, going with a piquet to John-street; I was desired to attend by Mr. Birnie. I got there about eight o'clock or a quarter past; directly after I got there I
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160018"/>heard a pistol shot, which appeared to come from Cato-street. I brought the piquet forward to Cato-street.
Q. There is an archway over the entrance to Cato-street - A. Yes; on my getting to the arch I met a police officer, who hallooed out Soldiers, soldiers! to the doorway - the stable. I went towards the stable, and was met at the door by a man on my right, and another on my left; the man at the stable door cut at me with a sword, and the man on the left presented something at me. The man in the doorway seeing the piquet coming on ran into the stable - he was the man who cut at me - we exchanged several cuts before he went in; the other man I could not see afterwards, for the moment he presented the pistol the other man cut at me - there was a scuffle between him and Sergeant
<persName id="t18200416-1-person73">Legge</persName> . I followed the man into the stable, ran in, and felt somebody inside the stable - it was dark; he said,
"Don't hurt me, don't kill me, and I will tell you all." I gave him over to the piquet, and ran again into the stable; I do not know the man, for it was dark. I then ran into one of the stalls, and secured another man - the soldiers took him away. I called to the file of Guards to follow me up the ladder. On going up stairs a light came from the bottom, and up stairs I secured three, four or five men - I rather think it was four. I fell against the body of poor Smithers, which laid at the top of the ladder. I saw several arms in the loft.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person74"> SAMUEL HERCULES TAUNTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person74" type="surname" value="HERCULES TAUNTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person74" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person74" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street officer. On the morning of the 24th of February I went to Brunt's lodgings with a warrant. On going up stairs I went into the front room on the second floor - I searched three rooms, but found nothing there material. I went into the back room, and found two rush baskets, one tied up in an apron, and the other not tied up. Brunt was in the front room, I asked him if he knew anything of the baskets - he said he knew nothing about them. I took him into custody in the front room, he said he did not belong to the back room, it was not his apartment.
COURT. Q. Did he say he knew nothing of them - A. Yes, my Lord, and said the room did not belong to him - there was a pike-staff found in the room with an iron pot. There was some tar at the bottom of it.
Q. Did any conversation take place as to whom the room belonged - A. I sent for Mrs. Rogers, the landlady, and asked her, in Brunt's presence, who the apartment belonged to - she said her niece,
<persName id="t18200416-1-person75"> Eleanor Walker
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person75" type="surname" value="Walker"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person75" type="given" value="Eleanor"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person75" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> , had let it to a man in the presence of Brunt. I asked Brunt who the man was - he said he did not know his name.
COURT. Q. What did the landlady say - A. She said her niece had let the room to a man when Brunt was in his company. Brunt said it was a man at the public-house, but he did not know his name.
Q. What did he mean - A. He said it was some man at the public-house that with was him when the lodgings were taken.
Q. After searching the place, did you go to Tidd's - A. Yes, that was at No. 5, Hole in the Wall-passage, Gray's Inn-lane, and found a box about two feet and a half long, full of ball cartridges. I counted them - there were 965. I also found ten grenades, and a great quantity of gunpowder. I also found in a haversack 434 balls, 171 ball cartridges, 69 ball cartridges without powder, about three pounds of gunpowder in a paper, the ten grenades which I spoke of before, they were in a brown wrapper, tied up, eleven bags of gunpowder, each containing one pound, which were in flannel bags, and ten flannel bags, empty; a small bag with a powder flask, sixty-eight musket balls, four flints, and twenty-seven pike-handles, all of which are here.
Q. You took two baskets at Brunt's - A. Yes, they contained nine papers with rope yarn and tar in different papers, and some steel filings; in another basket there were four grenades, three papers of rope yarn and tar, two flannel bags of powder, one pound each, five flannel bags, empty, one paper with powder in it, and one leather bag with sixty-three balls in it - this was all that was in the basket; an iron pot and pike handle, which I mentioned before - they are all here.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. When was it that you found all these things - A. On the 24th of February, Brunt was present.
Q. Tidd had been away since the day before you found the things at his house - A. Yes, I found them at half-past eight o'clock on Thursday morning.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person76"> DANIEL BISHOP
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person76" type="surname" value="BISHOP"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person76" type="given" value="DANIEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person76" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am an officer of Bow-street. On the morning of Thursday, the 24th of February, I went with other officers to apprehend Thistlewood, between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning, at No. 8, White-street, Little Moorfields. One Harris kept the house.
Q. After searching different rooms, did you receive a key - A. I received a key from Mrs. Harris of the room on the ground floor. I opened the door, and saw Thistlewood in bed - the shutters were shut, but there were holes in the shutters to admit light enough for me to see, he put his head up from under the clothes - I had a pistol in one hand and a staff in the other - I told him my name was Bishop from Bow-street, I had a warrant against him, and threw myself on the bed. Thistlewood said I shall make no resistance. I and my brother officer secured him; he had his breeches and stockings on in bed - his coat and waistcoat laid on the side of the bed. I searched his waistcoat-pocket, and found three leaden balls, two flints, one ball cartridge, and one dry cartridge, also a small silk sash. I saw Lavender take from his coat-pocket a black cloth belt, with a place to put pistols and a sword in.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Did a man named Edwards go with you - A. No, nobody but the patrol and officer went; no person went to point out the house to us.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person77"> STEPHEN LAVENDER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person77" type="surname" value="LAVENDER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person77" type="given" value="STEPHEN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person77" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I produce the belt I found in Thistlewood's pocket.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person78"> GEORGE THOMAS JOSEPH RUTHVEN
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person78" type="surname" value="THOMAS JOSEPH RUTHVEN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person78" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person78" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> here produced the several arms and ammunition referred to in the evidence, of which the following is an inventory: -
3 blunderbusses; 6 swords; 25 hand-grenades; 5 belts; 286 ball cartridges; 63 balls; 3 loose ditto; 5 bayonets; seven pistols; 6 flints; a knife and sheath; 2 haversacks; a worm for drawing cartridges; 2 prickers; a gun or pistol-screw; 2 carbines; a rope ladder; two cross-belts; a cartridge-box and bayonet-scabbard; 8 sword-sheaths; 40 pike-handles; 19 bayonet-spikes; a quantity of pike-heads, some of which were files sharpened, and some old bayonets, all having screws put on them to fasten to the staves; a pistol-key; 508 loose balls;
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160019"/>a tin case with powder, a blue belt, and a flask; a firelock and bayonet; a box containing 965 more rounds of ball cartridges; 12 fire-balls; 13 bags of powder, of 1 lb. each; 15 empty bags; a small bag, with powder; a flask with 3 lb. of powder; a leather bag; and an iron pot, with tar in it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person79"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person79" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person79" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person79" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. (looks at the sword) - it is the one I sharpened for Ings, I am quite sure of it by the mark on the edge, and also by the polishing of it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person80"> EDWARD HARRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person80" type="surname" value="HARRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person80" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person80" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a sergeant in the Royal Artillery. I have examined one of the grenades produced at Bow-street; it is a tin case about three inches long brazen on; there is a tin tube with composition in it - the tin contained 3 1/2 oz. of gunpowder.
Q. What is the priming in the tube - A. A composition of saltpetre, gunpowder, and brimstone; the end of the tin is pitched. Next to the tin is a body of oakum about an inch thick, and cemented together with tar and rosin; it is all wrapped round with rope-yarn tarred. The first I opened had twelve pieces of iron, planted round in different directions.
Q. What time would it take from the lighting the fusee till the explosion took place - A. About half a minute, or scarcely so much.
Q. If one was to explode in a room where there were a number of persons, I suppose it would be very destructive - A. It would; the iron would fly about like so many bullets.
Q. Look at the grenades found in Cato-street, do they seem similar to the one you opened - A. Yes - (here the witness opened one). Here are two old stockings wrapped round the tin, and five cart-tire nails fastened tightly round it by the rope-yarn tarred; the tightness of the rope-yarn increases the force of the explosion. The tin contains very good gunpowder.
Q. Now examine one of what are called fire balls - A. It is oakum, tar, brimstone powder, and rosin.
Q. If one of them was lit and thrown into a house, would it be likely to set it on fire - A. If it fell on wood, straw, or hay, it would be sure to set it on fire - it would burn three or four minutes.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. My Lords, here ends the case on the part of the Crown.
MR. CURWOOD addressed the Jury on the part of the prisoners, and called the following witnesses:

<persName id="t18200416-1-person81"> MARY PARKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person81" type="surname" value="PARKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person81" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person81" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am daughter of the prisoner,
<persName id="t18200416-1-person82"> Richard Tidd
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person82" type="surname" value="Tidd"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person82" type="given" value="Richard"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person82" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , and lived with him. I remember the officers coming on the 24th of February, at half-past eight o'clock in the morning and finding some things.
Q. How long had those things been in the house - A. About a quarter of an hour; they took a box away - I do not know what was in it.
Q. Did they take any thing like those pike-handles - A. Yes, they were brought that morning, I do not know by whom. I know Adams and Edwards, and have seen them often at my father's before he was apprehended.
Q. Had you seen the things there before the day on which the officers came - A. I had seen similar things before; I should think they were the same. Edwards took part of them away on the Wednesday.
Q. Did he take away the box or the staves - A. He did not take away any box - that was not taken.
Q. What were taken - A. Some things which I have since understood were grenades and powder. The box was put there a day or two before my father was taken up, and remained there but was never uncorded. I do not know who brought it.
Q. Were any of the grenades of different sizes - A. Yes, one was larger than the others; Adams brought it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person83"> EDWARD HUCKLESTONE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person83" type="surname" value="HUCKLESTONE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person83" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person83" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . Q. Do you know a man named Dwyer - A. Yes, I have known him for years, but within the last year I have used the same public-house as he did. I do not think he is to be believed on his oath.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. You have known him by meeting at a public-house - A. Yes, I have seen him with a great deal of money, and it is very seldom that he works. I wondered how he came by the money, till one day he asked me if I had any money? I said No. He said,
"Come along with me, I can put you in possession of many a bright pound." He took me to Hyde Park, and told me to keep behind, and he would go out there and watch a man out, and say he was an unnatural man; then I was to come up as an officer to take him into custody and get money from him - at that I was borror-struck and shunned of his company. He said he got 70 l. at a time by those jobs.
Q. When was this - A. About three months ago. He said he got 70 l. from a gentleman in St. James's-street, by only touching him on the collar and accusing him.
A. Where did you meet with him - A. At the Rodney's Head. I have met him frequently since, but I would have no more doings with him. I told him the dangerous consequences of it, and also that his brother was transported from this bar for that offence. He said, as for that, his brother did not know how to do it as he did.
Q. When did you mention this to a magistrate - A. Why, Sir, I ought to have done it, but I was afraid, because there are a great many Irishmen about our place; I was afraid I should fall a victim to them, and thought I had better shun his company.
Q. You was in his company afterwards - A. No, only by meeting him in the street, and saying how do you do?
Q. What are you - A. I was brought up a shoemaker, but am articled to a cow-doctor. I live at No. 15, Portman-street - his name is
<persName id="t18200416-1-person84"> Edward Skelly
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person84" type="surname" value="Skelly"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person84" type="given" value="Edward"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person84" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , No. 4, Newman's-mews.
Q. You was afraid to tell a Magistrate, when was it you assumed courage enough to mention it to any one - A. I told my brother about a week ago. I saw the name in the paper among the witnesses, and said I knew that man to be a bad character, and they subpoened me here to give evidence.
Q. Are the same Irishmen living in the neighbourhood now - A. No, some of them are gone away, and so I mustered up courage to speak of it.
Q. How long age is it since this communication was made to you by Dwyer - A. Two or three months ago, I cannot say which - I had other business to attend to.
Q. You did go with him to the Park - A. Yes, but when he mentioned it I walked back directly horror-struck.
COURT. Q. He mentioned it first to you at the public-house - A. Yes; I went to the Park with him that same night.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person85"> JOSEPH DONNE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person85" type="surname" value="DONNE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person85" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person85" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am called Court Reporter, and give communications of the intended removals of people of
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160020"/>rank and cabinet dinners I send to six newspapers - the New Times is one. I send them to all the papers at the same time.
Q. There is an announcement in the New Times of the 22d of February, under the head of Court Intelligence, did you furnish it - A. As far as relates to the Royal Family I did. The next article is,
"Lord Harrowby will give a grand Cabinet dinner to-morrow." The impression on my mind is that I did not send that article, for I never use the word grand, as I know all Cabinet dinners are alike.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person86"> ANDREW MITCHELL
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person86" type="surname" value="MITCHELL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person86" type="given" value="ANDREW"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person86" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am printer of the New Times; I have the manuscript of that article.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person87"> JOSEPH DONNE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person87" type="surname" value="DONNE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person87" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person87" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. It is not my writing, and does not come from me.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person88"> ANDREW MITCHELL
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person88" type="surname" value="MITCHELL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person88" type="given" value="ANDREW"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person88" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. I received it from a person of the name of Lovel, who is in the same line with Mr. Donne.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person89"> JOHN WHITAKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person89" type="surname" value="WHITAKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person89" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person89" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I have searched all the newspapers published on the 22d of February; I have searched all the daily papers published from the 17th to the 22d, at Peele's coffee-house - I went there for that purpose, and found no announcement of the Cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby's in any paper but the New Times.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person90"> THOMAS DWYER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person90" type="surname" value="DWYER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person90" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person90" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined by MR. GURNEY. Q. When you was here before you was asked if you knew Hucklestone, and you said No - A. I do not.
Q. Look at that man, (pointing to him), and say if you know him - A. Yes, I have seen him, but did not know his name was Hucklestone. I have often seen him in Oxford-road in the street, but never saw him in any house that I know of.
Q. Did you ever propose to him to go and charge a man with an unnatural crime in the Park, with a view to get money - A. Never, I solemnly swear it. I never went out with him in my life.
Q. In January or February last were you out of your regular work - A. Yes, and then went to work at Mr. Elwell's, before that I worked at the parish mill for two or three weeks. I have a wife and three children.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. On your oath when you came into this place just this moment did you not look at him, and say,
"Oh, Hucklestone!" - A. I did not. I have seen him at the top of James-street, where he used to resort with a parcel of chaps.
Q. Did you never see him any where but in the street, on your oath - A. I have seen him in Hyde Park. I used to resort to the Rodney's Head, public-house, in Chandler-street, but I never knew him to resort there. My countrymen in general resort there.
Q. Will you say on your oath that you have not repeatedly met him in a public-house - A. I will say I have not repeatedly met him.
Q. Will you swear you have not seen him at a public-house - A. That is a hard thing - I have not lately.
Q. Will you swear you have not seen him at the Rodney's Head - A. Yes, I can; it must have passed my recollection if I ever saw him there. I will swear I have not been there with him within the three last months.
Q. Will you swear to four months - A. I cannot. He might have been there, and I not notice him, but I am positive I never walked from there with him.
Q. On what occasion did you see him in Hyde Park - A. On Sunday, in the middle of the day.
Q. What made you fix so readily on seeing him in Hyde Park - A. I have no particular reason for it; that might be before Christmas or after - nothing at all passed between us. I then worked for Mr. Smith, No. 22, Mortimer-street, Cavendish-square for thirteen years, and several other gentlemen. Adjourned.
THIRD DAY, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 19.
MR. ADOLPHUS addressed the Jury on behalf of the prisoner, in which he contended that the object was the assassination of His Majesty's Ministers, and afterwards to create a riot for the purpose of plunder, but not to depose the King and subvert the constitution, or levy war.
LORD CHIEF JUSTICE ABBOTT recapitulated the evidence to the Jury, who retired at five minutes before five o'clock, and at a quarter past five returned and found the prisoner,

<rs id="t18200416-1-verdict3" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t18200416-1-verdict3" type="verdictCategory" value="guilty"/> GUILTY </rs>.
On the Third and Fourth Counts only.
Before Lord Chief Justice Abbot, Lord Chief Justice Dallas, Lord
<persName id="t18200416-1-person91" type="judiciaryName"> Chief Baron Richards
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person91" type="surname" value="Baron Richards"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person91" type="given" value="Chief"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person91" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , Mr. Justice Richardson, and Mr. Common Sergeant.
TRIAL OF
<persName id="t18200416-1-defend93" type="defendantName"> JAMES INGS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend93" type="surname" value="INGS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend93" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend93" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> .
The following Jury were Sworn,

<persName id="t18200416-1-person94" type="jurorName"> Charles Farmer
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person94" type="surname" value="Farmer"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person94" type="given" value="Charles"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person94" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , St. John-street, Clerkenwell, hardwareman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person95" type="jurorName"> George Smith
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person95" type="surname" value="Smith"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person95" type="given" value="George"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person95" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , St. John-square, Clerkenwell, japanner.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person96" type="jurorName"> William Moore
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person96" type="surname" value="Moore"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person96" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person96" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Union-street, Limehouse, bricklayer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person97" type="jurorName"> James Ede
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person97" type="surname" value="Ede"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person97" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person97" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Lampton, farmer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person98" type="jurorName"> Thomas Beachamp
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person98" type="surname" value="Beachamp"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person98" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person98" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Bedfont, turner.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person99" type="jurorName"> Benjamin Blyth
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person99" type="surname" value="Blyth"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person99" type="given" value="Benjamin"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person99" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Isleworth, organ builder.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person100" type="jurorName"> John Beck
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person100" type="surname" value="Beck"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person100" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person100" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Golder's-green, Hendon, gentleman and seedsman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person101" type="jurorName"> William Percy
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person101" type="surname" value="Percy"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person101" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person101" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Cleaveland-street, Marylebone, plasterer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person102" type="jurorName"> Benjamin Rogers
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person102" type="surname" value="Rogers"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person102" type="given" value="Benjamin"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person102" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Lampton, farmer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person103" type="jurorName"> John Young
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person103" type="surname" value="Young"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person103" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person103" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Frederick-place, St. Pancras, gent. and scale-maker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person104" type="jurorName"> James Cary
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person104" type="surname" value="Cary"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person104" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person104" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Wade-street, Poplar, joiner.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person105" type="jurorName"> William Edgcombe
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person105" type="surname" value="Edgcombe"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person105" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person105" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Wade-street, Poplar, joiner.
The Jury being charged with the prisoner, Mr. Solicitor General opened the case, and called.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person106"> ROBERT ADAMS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person106" type="surname" value="ADAMS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person106" type="given" value="ROBERT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person106" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . Q. Are you now a prisoner in the Tower - A. Yes. Before that I resided in Hole in the Wall-passage, near Brooks-market. I was acquainted with a person named Brunt - the first of my acquaintance with him was at Cambray, in France in 1815; he then went by the name of
<persName id="t18200416-1-person107"> Thomas Morton
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person107" type="surname" value="Morton"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person107" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person107" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> .
Q. I believe some years ago you was in the Oxford Blues - A. Yes, about eighteen years ago. I was discharged through illness, since which I have been chiefly employed at shoemaking. When I was in France I was pursuing my trade with the English army there.
Q. After you returned when did you resume your acquaintance with Brunt - A. Some few months after I returned; he lived in Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane. I first became acquainted with Thistlewood on the 12th of January
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160021"/>last; it was on a Wednesday as Sunday was the 9th - Brunt and Ings introduced me to him; I had known Ings five or six days before that. I was introduced to Thistlewood at his lodgings in Stanhope-street, Clare-market. I had conversation with him in the presence of Brunt and Ings.
Q. Tell us what passed on that occasion - A. On Brunt introducing me into the room he said,
"Here, Mr. Thistlewood, is the man I was speaking to you about." Thistlewood said,
"Oh! is this the man? You belong to the Life Guards, do you not?" I said No. I told him I belonged to the Blues once, but the proper name of the regiment was the Royal Horse Guards. He said he presumed I could use a sword well, and was a very good soldier. I told him I once was a good soldier, and once could use a sword well; I told him I could use a sword sufficiently to defend myself if occasion required it. Upon that he turned his subject upon the different shopkeepers in London, saying they were all a set of Aristocrats, and under the same system of government, and he should glory to see the day when the shops were all shut up, and well plundered. He next turned his discourse on Mr. Hunt, Saying that Hunt was a d - d coward, and no friend to the people, and no doubt if he could get into Whitehall he should find his name on the books as a spy of Government. He next turned his discourse on Cobbet, saying he had no doubt but he was equally as bad, and with all his writings was not a man for the good of the country. Nothing more passed in particular, further than Brunt saying he had two men to call on in Carnaby-market, and asked Mr. Thistlewood to walk with him to see this man. Thistlewood declined, and on that we left the room with Brunt and Ings.
Q. I believe you went to prison for debt on the 27th of January, between that and the interview on the 17th had you other interviews with Thistlewood and the prisoner - A. I had an interview with him on Sunday, the 16th, at the White Hart, public-house, Brooks-market; we first met there in the taproom, and proceeded to a room at the back of the house, in the back yard on the ground floor - Thistlewood, Ings, Hall, Brunt, Tidd, and myself were present. The next day I was taken to prison for debt, and remained there until the day after the death of the late King.
Q. That was the 30th of January, when did you next meet Ings - A. I saw him the day after that, which was the 31st, at the White Hart.
Q. Did you go with him to any place - A. I saw him at Brunt's lodgings (he occupied the front room, second floor) in the room that was taken for the men to meet in, which was the back room on the same floor.
Q. Can you recollect who were at Brunt's room on the night of the 31st when you went there - A. It was between six and seven o'clock in the evening, and the first time I was ever in that room. As far as I can recollect I saw Ings, Hall, Harrison, Davidson, Thistlewood Brunt and Edwards there - there was a conversation between them respecting the proclamation and indisposition of the new King. They had a few words to say about that.
Q. Did you see any thing there that evening - A. I saw some pike-staves; Thistlewood said he wished they were all ferrelled, and holes bored in order to admit the pikes, that they might be taken to the place of safety, as he did not think they were safe there, which place of safety they called the depot. I did not then know where that depot was, but I afterwards knew.
Q. Where was it - A. At Tidd's house in the Hole in the Wall-passage, in the house adjoining to where I lived myself. Thistlewood left word with Brunt, that he hoped they would be taken there when they were done - they were quite green, and very stout. Ings said he brought them from the other side of the water.
Q. Do you remember any thing more passing that evening - A. This I have since called to my recollection, there was a conversation respecting the new King, thinking he would die. Thistlewood remarked that he hoped he would not die, from the circumstance of the Duke of York coming to the crown - he said he would rather the new King would live a bit longer, as they did not intend he should wear the crown. Ings said the people were a parcel of cowards, for he himself went into the Park the day the new King went to open Parliament, and took a pistol in his pocket with intent to shoot him. Ings said so, and in saying so he took a pistol from his pocket, and said,
"There is the pistol I took with me."
JURY. Q. On what evening did this conversation take place - A. On the same evening, 2d of February.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. Well - A. He regretted that he had not had an opportunity of doing it, saying he did not care a d - n for his own life. I cannot bring any thing else to my recollection that transpired that night.
Q. How often did you meet at this room - A. The appointed time was twice a day, at eleven o'clock in the morning and seven o'clock in the evening. There was no furniture in the room except a stove, which was fixed - I learnt that the room was taken for Ings, but for what purpose I cannot say.
Q. Did you attend many of those meetings between the day you have mentioned, and Saturday, the 19th of February - A. Yes, I attended some few times, but not so regularly as after. I saw Ings at every meeting I went to.
Q. Do you recollect any meeting in the interval between the the 2d and the 19th, before the King's funeral - A. Yes, I found Thistlewood, Davidson, and Edwards in the room - Harrison, Brunt, Ings, and Hall came in afterwards. Thistlewood began to tell me that Harrison should say he had seen one of the Life Guards, who had told him (Harrison) that on the night of the funeral of the King, every man of the Life Guards who could be mounted were to attend at the funeral of the King, and all the Foot Guards and police officers as well, that could be spared from London, and that after Harrison had left the guard it struck him that would be a favourable opportunity to collect the men together for the sole purpose of having a riot in London that night, and to put themselves in possession of the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn, lane and the six pieces in the Artillery Ground, and it was thought by the time they had got this cannon they should be able to proceed, by means of the people that would turn over to them, and he thought it would be best to send a party of men to Hyde Park Corner, in order to prevent any orderly men from proceeding to
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160022"/>Windsor to give notice of what was passing in London. At the same time it was proposed that the telegraph on the other side of the water should be seized, to prevent any communication with Woolwich; at the same time it was thought necessary to dig entrenchments in the different reads in order to prevent the Artillery or soldiers from entering London.
Q. Was any thing more said - A. It was thought best by Thistlewood, as well as Harrison, that if the soldiers got any account of what was doing in London, they would be so tired that they would not be fit for duty. During this discussion Brunt and Ings were not present, but they came in just at the conclusion of it. Thistlewood went to them and communicated to them the plan Harrison had proposed and what he thought might be done. He communicated to them what I have stated.
Q. What did Brunt and Ings say to that - A. They said nothing short of the assassination or murder of the ministers should satisfy them.
Q. Before that had you heard that there was an intention to murder or assassinate His Majesty's Ministers - A. Yes. I had heard it from Brunt and Ings.
Q. Do you remember any thing more passing - A. I recollect one thing passing between then and the 19th.
Q. What was that - A. Ings was in the room; his blood was all in a boil, and he said that we must have the ministers before the Parliament was dissolved.
Q. On Saturday, the 19th, were you at Brunt's room - A. I was, between eleven and twelve o'clock in the morning, and saw Thistlewood, Wilson, Davidson, Harrison, Ings, and Hall. On my entering the room they seemed in a deep study among themselves, and all of a sudden they got up, saying it was agreed on, that if nothing occurred between then and the Wednesday night (that was the night agreed on) they were to go to work, for they were all so poor they could wait no longer. Thistlewood proposed that there should be a meeting on the following morning at nine o'clock, in order to form a committee to draw up a plan to act upon. On this they were going to separate, but Thistlewood all of a sudden said,
"Oh, Brunt! if you go round to any of your men, give them orders to come armed." Brunt turned round, and said,
"D - n my eyes! are you afraid of any officers coming into the room, if any enter the room now the time is got so near, I will take d - d good care they shall not go out alive."
Q. In pursuance of this proposition did you go there again on Sunday morning - A. I did, just at eleven o'clock. I found Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Harrison, Davidson, Hall, Bradburn, Wilson, Cook, Tidd, and Edwards there. I had not been long in the room before Thistlewood thought it highly necessary, as there were twelve in the room and enough to form a committee, that they should enter on business, and proposed Tidd to take the chair, which he did with a pike in his hand, Thistlewood stand-on his right hand, and Brunt on his left; Thistlewood said, as they had been waiting so long, and were all out of patience from the ministers not dining together, and finding there was no chance of their meeting together, it was agreed, that if nothing occurred between then and Wednesday night, they should be taken separately at their own homes. He said in doing this they should not have so good an opportunity as by destroying them together, but they must put up with it - he thought three were as many as they could take together. He proposed that this should be attempted on the Wednesday night, but the hour was not then fixed; it was also proposed that at the same time the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane and the six pieces in the Artillery Ground should be taken; Cook was proposed to be at the head of the party to take the six pieces of cannon in the Artillery Ground; after he had got them it was proposed that they should be loaded on the ground, before they were brought out, and if any one interrupted them when they were brought out the cannon was to be fired on them directly; but if Cook found himself enabled to make a movement, by people coming over to him, they were to move to the Mansion House, which was to be beset on both sides - the six cannons were to be divided into two divisions, three on each side. Cook was to go to the Mansion House and demand it, and if it was refused he was to go to the cannon, and give orders to fire on both sides, and they would then give it up to them.
Q. What was to be done then - A. The Mansion House was to be the seat of the Provisional Government. After they had taken the Mansion House, it was said, with the other two pieces of cannon, which were to be brought from Gray's Inn Lane, they might take the Bank, and to plunder it, if they succeeded, which they made no doubt of; but did not intend to destroy the books - said that it was necessary to keep the books, as they would be the means of bringing to light some of the proceedings of Government that they had not yet got possession of. Palin was not present, but Thistlewood said he was to be the man who was to set fire to the different buildings which were proposed. Thistlewood said they would fix no particular time at present, and it was not necessary to fix the time, as it could be done afterwards; he said he had nothing more to propose, but that Mr. Brunt had a proposal to make respecting the assassination of Ministers, how it was to be done. On this, Brunt came forward to state what he had to say, and was beginning to speak - Thistlewood said, stop! you had better let the proposition I have made be put from the chair, and see if every one is agreeable to it - it was put to the men, that if any of them liked to speak on what had been proposed, they might speak. The proposition was put from the chair, and assented to by all present.
Q. Did Brunt say anything - A. Brunt came forward, saying, the proposal he had to make was, respecting the assassination of Ministers; he said, it should be done in this way, that so many men as could be got together for the job, should be divided into as many parties as different Ministers they had to kill; he said, after the men were so lotted out, there should be one man selected from each lot, and the man that it fell on should murder the gentleman or nobleman they had to kill, and if the man that was appointed made the attempt, and there was the least sign of cowardice seen in him, and he did not do it, that man was to be run through on the spot, which proposal was agreed to.
Q. After that, do you remember any one coming into the room - A. Yes; Palin, Potter, and Strange. Thistlewood
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160023"/>communicated his plan to all three, and Brunt communicated his, they agreed to it. Palin got up, and said,
"Mr. Chairman, I wish to speak a few words respecting what has been dropped from Mr. Thistlewood and Brunt. I paid perfect attention to what has been said, and have been one that has assented to it, and agreeing as I do in the propositions that have been made before they can be carried, I consider it to be a great acquisition to what we have in view, but this is what I want to know; you talk of from 40 to 50 men for the West-end job - you talk of taking the two cannon in Gray's Inn Lane, and six in the Artillery Ground, and all this to be done at one time. I want to be satisfied how it is to be done. You ought to know better than I do what men you have to depend on; for my own part, I can give no satisfaction respecting the men I can bring forward, unless I can be entrusted from the Committee to communicate to them in part, if not in full, what are your plans, and what you are going to do, and when they shall be wanted." It was thought that Palin knew what kind of men he had, and whether he might trust them, this passed between Tidd (who was in the chair), Thistlewood and Brunt, they saw no harm in his having liberty to communicate it. On this, the chair was left, and soon after there was a move. Thistlewood all of a sudden turned about in the room, and said,
"Well thought of, Brunt! now Palin is here, you may as well take him to the new building (Furnival's Inn), just here, and let him pass his opinion on it, and see whether he thinks it can be done." Palin and Brunt went away together, and were absent about ten minutes; on their return they gave in to the Committee that Palin thought it a very easy job, and would make a good fire. On this, Brunt resumed the subject of the assassination again; he said, he had no doubt in his mind that there would be no difficulty in drawing the person to murder the different parties. Ings said,
"Whoever has the lot to murder Lord Castlereagh, I am the man to turn out to murder that thief!"
Q. When did you meet again - A. On Monday morning. I went there about ten o'clock; to the best of my recollection I found Brunt, Harrison, Thistlewood, and Ings there; I cannot recollect any more being there then, there were more in the course of the morning.
Q. What passed on your going into the room - A. They seemed rather cast down. I communicated to them that there had been two officers at Hobb's (who kept the White Hart), one from Hatton-garden, and one from Bow-street, signifying there was information of what was going on, both at Bow-street and at Lord Sidmouth's Office. Davidson turned himself round on me, and said,
"You have acted d - d wrong." I said, why? Brunt turned round directly, and said,
"You have acted wrong, if you have any thing to communicate; whatever you hear out of the room, it is your place to speak to me or Thistlewood." I said I did not think I had any right to speak to him or Thistlewood. I thought it my duty to communicate it to the whole, as it concerned the whole; they began to think about separating, and calling on their different men, and on the Mary-le-bone Union, there was to be no meeting there that evening.
Q. On the next day (Tuesday morning), did you go again to Brunt's - A. Yes, about ten o'clock; they began to meet earlier after the 19th - I found Thistlewood, Brunt, Tidd, Ings, and Hall in the room. I had not been in the room long before I saw Ings pull three daggers out of his pocket; he was asked the intent of these daggers? he took one in his hand, made a rush, and said, with a view to run into their (using a bad expression) bodies. These were handed about, and put into his pocket again. Just after, in came Edwards, who went up to Tidd, and told him he had seen it in the paper that ministers were to dine together on Wednesday evening at Lord Harrowby's.
Q. On that being communicated was any thing done - A. Thistlewood rather disputed it, and proposed that the paper should be sent for - it was sent for, and on being brought the paragraph was read by Thistlewood himself, and believed to be true. Brunt jumped about the room, and said,
"Now, d - n me, I believe there is a God - it has often been my prayer that these villains might be brought together, and now he has answered my prayer." Ings was equally as pleased, and said he should have a better opportunity of cutting off Lord Castlereagh's head. Thistlewood proposed that there should be a committee sit to settle another plan to assassinate the ministers altogether. The committee was formed, I was asked to take the chair, which I did, and called to order. Thistlewood was going to proceed to business; I having something to say, stopped him, and said I hoped every man who heard what fell from me on the morning before, had given it a due consideration.
Q. What passed on that - A. They were all like a set of mad devils more than any thing else. Harrison walked about the room, looked at me as fierce as a lion, and said that the first man who attempted to throw cold water on the deed they were going on, he would run that man through directly with a sword. I was considered unfit to keep the chair, and Tidd was put in. Tidd was going to speak, but Palin said
"No, as something fell from Mr. Adams yesterday morning, and as he has alluded to it today, I wish to know what it is before we proceed to business." On this Brunt jumped up, and said,
"D - n my eyes! I will tell you what it is" - He told Palin what I had communicated to them, and proposed that there should be a watch set on Lord Harrowby's house at six o'clock in the evening to a moment. They were to take particular notice who went into the house. If any one went in, having the appearance of a soldier or police officer, it was to be communicated to the committee.
Q. What was said - A. This was agreed to, and Brunt said if nobody was found to enter the house likely to give us any obstruction, the business should be proceeded in. It was settled who should go on the watch; then Thistlewood came forward and said,
"It is a more favourable opportunity by ministers all dining together, than to take them separately at their houses, for then we should only be able to take three or four, and by taking them at dinner there may be fourteen or sixteen, and there will be a rare hawl - thirty or forty men will be sufficient. I will go to the house with a letter for Lord Harrowby, telling the servant I must have an answer." On his going in he was to be followed by men supplied with pistols, swords, pikes, and different things to be presented at the servants - if they made the least resistance they were to be shot on the spot; and when this was done the men that were to take
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160024"/>care of the house were to rush in after Thistlewood, and two were to take possession of the stairs leading to the upper part of the house, and two at the lower stairs, each of these men were to have a hand-grenade in his hand, to prevent any one from retiring from the upper or lower part of the house; if they attempted it the men were to clap fire to the hand-grenades, and send them in among them to destroy them altogether. Two men at the same time were to take command of the area, one with a blunderbuss and the other with a grenade, and if any one attempted to escape from the area they were to be served the same way. After the servants were secured, the men who were to enter the room were to proceed, led by Ings, at his own proposal.
Q. What did Ings say - A. He said he would go up to their Lordships' door, and particularly mentioned the description of the things he would take for his defence. He said he would have a brace of pistols and a knife, which he had prepared for the sole purpose of cutting off their heads as he came to them - the heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth he was determined to bring away in two bags he brought for that purpose, and one hand of Lord Castlereagh he was to bring away, to preserve it for a future day, and then it would be thought a good deal of.
Q. What was he to say on entering the room - A. He said he should say,
"Well, my Lords, I have got as good men here as the Manchester Yeomanry - enter, citizens, and do your duty." He was to be followed by two swordsmen appointed for that purpose, which was Harrison and myself.
Q. What was to be done after this was accomplished at Lord Harrowby's - A. They were to retreat from the house as quick as they could, and Harrison was to go to the horse barracks in King-street, with an illumination ball, to put in at the window where the straw was kept, to set it on fire. The others were to proceed, after they left the house, to Gray's Inn-lane, and if they met anybody that offered to interrupt them, they were to be shot or run through with the pikes that they had. The two pieces of cannon there were to be taken, and the six in the Artillery Ground - Cook was appointed to take the latter. Ings repeatedly stated the satisfaction he felt at having an opportunity of cutting all the ministers' heads off.
Q. Harrison was there - A. Yes. After this Harrison proposed that there should be a countersign to be communicated to the men that were to come forward - it was the word button. The man was to be stationed at the top of Oxford-street; the men who were to approach him were to say BUT, the man who was in waiting was to say TON. He was then to be taken to the place which was afterwards to be appointed by Harrison to meet at.
Q. Did you go to Brunt's again that day - A. I did. I called about three o'clock in the afternoon - in going up I perceived a strange smell, and on entering the room I saw the cause of it. Ings, Hall, and Edwards were there - Ings was making the fire-balls for the purpose of setting fire to the different buildings; Edwards was making fusees for the hand-grenades, and Hall was laying sheets of paper down to catch them as they fell from the iron pot, to prevent their sticking to the hand. I went away almost directly, and called again at Brunt's between six and seven o'clock in the evening, and found Thistlewood in the room with two men whom I had not seen before - the name of one was Harris; I did not know it then. Tidd came about half-past eight; he had been appointed to go on the watch with Brunt at nine o'clock at Lord Harrowby's. Tidd, on entering the room, expressed himself dissatisfied at not meeting a man he expressed to meet that night. Brunt said it was time we should go to watch, and relieve the men in proper time. Brunt and Tidd went away for the purpose of going there. In about five minutes Brunt returned alone, saying he had called at a house where he expected to find a man who was likely to be a great acquisition to us, and as such Tidd would not go with Brunt, and they must have another. Brunt looked round the room, and said
"Adams, there is nobody can go except yourself" - I consented, and just as we were leaving the room in came Edwards, who had been appointed to go backwards and forwards, to see that the men were on duty. I asked him if any thing had been seen? He said,
"What I have seen or heard I shall communicate to Mr. Thistlewood." I and Brunt went to Grosvenor-square, and when I came there I saw Davidson, with another man; we relieved them. We then went to refresh ourselves at a public-house at the corner of the mews, directly at the back of Lord Harrowby's.
Q. While you were there, did anything happen - A. Nothing occurred except that Brunt played at dominos with a person there. We stopped there till very near eleven o'clock. I went out twice at intervals to watch - Brunt remained there, and staid in the neighbourhood of Grosvenor-square till twelve o'clock, which was the time appointed to leave. I then went directly home. At four o'clock in the morning Ings and Hall were to go on the watch.
Q. The next day was Wednesday, the 23d, at what time did you go to Brunt's then - A. I called very early in the morning; I did not stay, but went again at two o'clock in the afternoon, and found Brunt in his own room - his wife got in just before me; Strangeand two or three others came in soon after, whom I do not know, not having seen them before; there were several pistols lying in a drawer, and some on the top of the drawers, but the exact number I cannot say. They began to handle the pistols. On the strange men coming into the room Brunt proposed going into the back room. They were putting leather to their pistols.
Q. What did you see on going into the back room - A. I saw arms of different descriptions, cutlasses, pistols, and a blunderbuss with a brass barrel. Tidd came into the room, and not long after Ings and Hall; and very soon after another strange man came in; they began to prepare themselves with different arms to take with them, such as fixing flints to the pistols, and slings to the cutlasses. On Thistlewood coming into the room he looked round, and said,
"Well, my lads, this looks something like, as if we were going to do something." He laid his hand on my shoulder, and said, Well, Mr. Adams, how do you do? I said I was very low, and wanted refreshment, as I had had nothing to drink that day - he sent for drink, which was brought. Thistlewood proposed to send for some paper to write some bills; he said he should like the sort
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160025"/>of paper that newspapers were printed on. I said,
"As you don't know the name of the paper, you had better send for cartridge paper, which will answer your purpose as well." Brunt said he would send either his apprentice or boy for it. Thistlewood gave Brunt the money, and he went out of the room; the paper was brought into the room, but I do not know who by. Thistlewood wrote three bills on it. In writing the last bill he expressed himself to be very tired, and said he did not know what was the matter with him, but he could not write any longer.
Q. Were the bills read - A. He read them aloud himself. I afterwards saw one of them in Ings's hand, and another in Thistlewood's hand. This was the last I saw of them.
Q. Now tell us what he read - A.
"Your tyrants are destroyed, the friends of liberty are called on, as the Provisional Government are now sitting.
<persName id="t18200416-1-person108"> James Ings
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person108" type="surname" value="Ings"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person108" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person108" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Secretary. 23d of February, 1820." Hall was called on to write a fourth bill, he refused, another person also refused, but afterwards consented; Ings was in the room at this time - he was very busy preparing himself for action; he put a black belt round his waist to contain a brace of pistols; another black belt hung over his shoulder for a cutlass. He next hung a large bag across each shoulder, in the form of a soldier's haversack. After doing this he said,
"I am not complete yet, I have not got my steel." He said
"never mind," and produced a knife from his pocket, brandishing it about, and said,
"This is the knife I prepared to cut the head of Lord Castlereagh off, and the rest, as I come to them." I asked him what intent he had the bags for, he positively said he intended to bring the heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth away in them. The knife was a large one, and the handle covered with wax-end; he said that was to keep it from slipping when he was at work.
Q. After this, did any of the persons go into the room - A. Thistlewood and Brunt went out. Palin came in, and perceiving Thistlewood and Brunt were not present, he took upon himself to address those that were there; he said he hoped all in the room knew what they met there for, and he hoped they would give it a proper consideration and see whether the assassination was likely to be approved of by the country, and whether the country were likely to turn on their side.
Q. Was any thing said in answer to that - A. A tall man in the room said,
"You seem to speak as if all in the room knew what was going to be done, that is what some of us who are here wish to be satisfied of. I, for my own part, am not afraid of myself, nor do I conceive that any man who turns out in such a case as this ought to value his life." Just at the conclusion of this Brunt entered the room again, and seeing an alteration in the countenances of those in the room he wanted to know the cause. The tall man told him that some in the room wanted to know what they had met there for. Brunt said,
"This is not the place where you are to be informed, go along with me to Edgware-road, there you shall be informed what you are going about, and all who go along with me I will take care they shall have a drop of something to drink to put them in spirits." A blunderbuss was fixed with a brass belt round my shoulder, slung to it, and fixed under my great coat for me to carry it to Cato-street; after that there was a broom-stick, which had been prepared for a bayonet to be fixed at one end, this was Brunt's. I was to take it as a walking stick. Nothing further was done in the room more, than that Brunt said it was necessary to begin to prepare ourselves to go, as the room where we were would be wanted for the meeting of Palin's men, after we are gone.
Q. You told us some pike-staves were prepared, and were to have ferrels put on them - A. Yes; I saw a dozen of them ferrelled by Bradburn; there is a cupboard in the room, which was used for the reception of swords. I saw some tallow, pitch, and some small hand-grenades there. I have seen gunpowder, balls, and muskets. I saw powder put into hand-grenades; the powder was brought in a brown paper bag. I have seen Brunt take a bag to carry the hand-grenades from there.
Q. What time did you leave Brunt's to go to Cato-street - A. As near six o'clock as I can recollect. I went by myself, and was to be followed by Strange and this tall man whom I spoke of, and Brunt. I met Thistlewood, Brunt, and a strange man in Edgware-road, and went with them to Cato-street. I entered a kind of stable under the arch-way, it is the first building on the right-hand side. I found Davidson sitting, and Wilson standing up in the stable - they appeared to be doing something at the pikes - I passed them, and went up the ladder into the loft above, and found Ings, Hall, and Bradburn, and the tall man whom I did not know, they were handling different arms which laid on a bench in the loft. Tidd was not there when I arrived. Thistlewood began to be rather agitated, for fear Tidd should not come. Brunt seeing the men rather confused said, there was no occasion for any uneasiness about the arrival of Tidd, for he would venture to forfeit his existence if Tidd was not forthcoming. About this time Ings began to shew himself mad; he stamped and swore, and said,
"D - n my eyes, if you think of dropping it now, I will either hang myself or cut my throat." Thistlewood said to the men,
"For God's sake, do not think of dropping the affair; if you do, it will turn out another Despard job." Thistlewood looked round, and said,
"You seem to think there is not sufficient men present, there are 18 here, and two below make 20; it is quite sufficient, supposing Lord Harrowby has 16 servants, they are not armed; we shall go prepared, and it will not take us from our entering the house to coming out above 16 minutes." He proposed that 14 men out of 20 should enter the room; he thought six would be sufficient to take care of the servants. Tidd came in about 20 minutes before the officers came. I did not see him enter the room, but I saw him there.
Q. Thistlewood proposed 14 men should enter the room - A. Yes; Tidd was in the room at that time, and I said
"Don't you think this is a pretty set out - do you think this is sufficient to do what we are talking about?" Tidd shook his head, and said, never! Fourteen were selected to go into the room; it was first proposed to be put to them, to see if they were all willing to go. This was put and agreed to, and the 14 men called out separate from the rest, and Brunt pulled a gin bottle from his pocket.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160026"/>Q. Was the prisoner one that was picked out - A. He was; and I was one, and
<persName id="t18200416-1-person109">Harrison</persName> another, and this being done, they thought of preparing themselves to go. Just about this time I heard somebody in the stable. I heard a person call out, and directly after the words Halloo! shew a light! Thistlewood took a candle from the bench and went to the head of the ladder, and seeing who were coming up, he turned round, set the candle on the bench in quite a confused state. I never heard him speak. Two officers directly entered the room; Thistlewood sided off from where he was into the little room, which room I had not noticed before. Ings, Brunt, and Harrison, went in also. On the officers coming up, they stood at the top of the ladder in the room, with a small pistol presented, saying,
"Halloo! here is a pretty nest of you!" and looking round, and seeing the arms on the bench, and arms about them, they said,
"Gentlemen, we have a warrant to apprehend you all, and hope you will surrender quietly." Smithers said,
"make room, let me come forward." He came up between the two officers, who made way for him, and at the moment a group of those in the little room made towards the door, and I saw a hand rush forward from the group, and another hand presented itself with a pistol; it was fired, and out went the candle, and I could not see what passed afterwards. I did not see Smither's fall - there was great confusion in the room - the officers, as soon as they saw their brother officer was murdered, ran down, and gave the alarm of murder! I went out of the room down the ladder, and through the stable, under the archway and escaped. As I got out into Cato-street I turned my head aside, and a pistol was fired from the window at me. As I was under the archway the soldiers were coming up; I was apprehended on the Friday, and have been in custody ever since.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Where were you born - A. At Ipswich in Suffolk. I was educated a Christian, and profess that religion now.
Q. Did you ever cease to profess it - A. Yes; I was what they term a Deist. I always believed in a God.
Q. How long have you ceased to be a Deist - A. Since I conceived myself to be wrong, which is since I was apprehended. I became a Deist in August last.
Q. Did you ever deny your belief in God - A. I never denied my belief in a God, though I was brought by that cursed work of Paine's to deny Christianity.
Q. How long did you serve your King - A. Five years I served in England, and left 18 years ago, on account of illness. Since last Monday I have been in the House of Correction, and have had communication with nobody but those who attend me; I have had no writing or printing conveyed to me. I heard before I went home, on the day the Jury gave their verdict, that Thistlewood was found guilty. I have heard no observation that was made on my evidence.
Q. I will tell you why I ask. You have altered your evidence a great deal - A. I do not know that I have.
Q. From the time you begun to hold communication with Brunt, Ings, and Thistlewood, was it your intent to execute the project they proposed, or was it to give evidence - A. No; I was in hopes, and wanted the opportunity, to creep out of it, but was hindered from threats that were held out; nor was I disposed to plunder the shops, or any thing of the kind.
Q. You was in a society, which said that was their object, and you had the benefit of fourteen days consideration in prison - A. The threats were held out before that. On the very day before I went to prison, I asked Brunt, in the presence of Thistlewood, for the plan that was drawn up; I wanted to see it. Brunt said, nothing would be communicated till the day of action. Thistlewood said,
"By no means, there shall be nothing given; and the very day we think of going to work, we will have the men all together, give them a treat, and tell them what shall be done, and then we will never lose sight of them." Brunt said he would take d - d good care there should be no writing, but if he suspected any man had given information, he should be run through. I was imprisoned for 23 s. 8 d. Before that I had met Brunt and Ings several times at the public-house.
Q. When was the first time you heard any threats - A. On Friday, the 18th, at the White Hart.
Q. That so intimidated you, that when you came out of prison you sought them directly - A. I had reason to be intimidated from what Ings said - his whole soul was bent on murder. The room at the White Hart had been given up while I was in prison, which I did not know until I met them.
Q. The other day when you was examined, did you tell us about Ings producing a pistol, and saying he hoped the King would not come to the crown, and so on - A. I did not; I told as far as my recollection went; the reason I did not say it was on Monday was that it did not come to my recollection. I have not mentioned to-day about taking the sea-ports as I did not recollect it.
MR. GURNEY. We studiously passed over certain parts of his evidence for the purpose of shortening it.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. You have told us to-day about digging entrenchments - A. I did not recollect that on Monday, and I can tell you now things which I forgot even to day - if more comes into my head at another time, I shall state it. I cannot say whether I stated about the cannon being loaded on the ground.
Q. Now we will come to the meeting on the 22d, was that the time Ings pulled the daggers out - you did not state that on Monday - A. If I was to state every thing I could, but when I am called on to select one thing out of many, it confuses me; if I had thought of it at the time I should have mentioned it. I did not conceive, according to the dictates of the counsel who examined me, that I was to state every thing; there are things that transpired on the 22d which I have not stated either on Monday or to-day.
Q. Are you certain that when you came to Cato-street there were eighteen up stairs and two below - A. That is what Thistlewood gave out. I never saw Monument, to my recollection; at the time the murder was committed I was at the end of the room farthest from the door - I never observed the little room until the party went to it. To the best of my recollection the door of the little room is about the middle; the door of the loft is on the side, and the bench stood in the middle. I only noticed one candle in the room, but I will not say there were not more.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160027"/>Q. If any man swore there were eight candles it would be false - A. I should say he was a false man.
Q. You are sure one of the officers said,
"Here is a a pretty nest of you. Gentlemen we have a warrant to apprehend you" - A. Yes, words to that effect were used but it is not possible to be answerable for every word that passed. I afterwards found Edwards very deep in conversation with Brunt and Tidd.
Q. You did not tell us last time of a pistol being fired at you - A. I did not think of it, nor when it was fired did I know it was fired at me, but there was a hole in my coat. I do not wish to fix the guilt of any other man on the prisoner. The coat is in the room that I slept in last night.
Q. Did you ever call on a person named Chambers, in Heathcock-court, in company with Edwards, about four days before this affair took place - A. Never in my life, that I swear. I know know such person.
Q. Did you call on any person, and wish him to assist in assassinating His Majesty's Ministers, and say you would have blood and wine for supper - A. Never in my life. When I was at Cato-street Hall brought me a pistol, and gave me five round of ball cartridges; I handled the pistol, and laid it on the bench where it was when the officers came; I threw the cartridges away before I left the room. I never had the large hand-grenade in my hand - I never carried any ammunition from Cato-street to Brunt's, but I carried some pikes from Brunt's to Tidd's - I saw Edwards making touch-paper for the fusees, he never had much to say, and what he did say was always in a whisper to Thistlewood, Brunt, Harrison or Tidd.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person110"> ELEANOR WALKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person110" type="surname" value="WALKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person110" type="given" value="ELEANOR"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person110" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am niece and servant to Mrs. Rogers, Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane; Brunt lodged in the house near twelve months - he occupied two front rooms on the second floor. In January he introduced a man, whose name I afterwards found to be Ings, to take a lodging.
Q. Is that the man at the bar - A. He appears something like him, but I cannot swear to him. He took the back room, on the same floor as Brunt, at 3 s. per week, he had it a month or five weeks. He said perhaps he might bring in his goods in a week or better, but he never did.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. What part of the house do you occupy - A. The bottom part. The staircase door is always shut.
Q. Could ten or twelve men go up once or twice a day without your knowing it - A. I have heard people go up, but cannot say how many.
MR. GURNEY. Q. Is there a door that people may go up without going through your shop - A. Yes, there is a private door in a passage leading to the staircase. There is also a back door which lodgers come in at and go up stairs without coming to the shop.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person111"> MARY ROGERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person111" type="surname" value="ROGERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person111" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person111" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> .
<persName id="t18200416-1-person112"> Eleanor Walker
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person112" type="surname" value="Walker"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person112" type="given" value="Eleanor"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person112" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> is my niece and servant. In January I let a back room on the second floor; the prisoner occupied it four or five weeks - he paid for four weeks, and left one unpaid; the lodgings were kept till Brunt was taken up. I asked Brunt who the lodger was? he said he was a butcher out of employ, and he knew nothing more of him, only by seeing him at a public-house, and hearing him enquire for a lodging. One evening as I was putting my child to bed I saw three men go up stairs, the middle man was a man of colour, but I did not take sufficient notice of him so as to be able to speak to him.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person113"> JOSEPH HALE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person113" type="surname" value="HALE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person113" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person113" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am apprentice to Brunt, and lived with him in Fox-court; he had two front rooms on the second floor, one to live in and one to work in; I remember the prisoner, Ings, taking the back room on the same floor. I had seen him in Brunt's workshop about a fortnight before he took the room - I think I saw him once before. Brunt looked at the room with him. When they came out I heard Brunt say to Ings,
"It will do, go down and give them 1 s." - this was on a Monday. Ings came there that evening with a man named Hall; Ings came and asked Mrs. Brunt for the key, and I believe she gave it to him. He and Hall went into the room; several others came - they used to come every evening till my master was taken up.
Q. Can you give us the names of the different persons who used to come to these meetings of an evening - A. Yes. Thistlewood, Ings, Davidson, Bradburn, Tidd, Edwards, Adams, Hall, Potter, and Strange. There was no furniture in the room - they used to borrow Brunt's chairs to sit on; my master used to be in the room with them, and I have also seen some of them in my master's room. They sometimes called Thistlewood T., and sometimes Arthur.
Q. Do you remember ever seeing the room door open, and observing any thing in the room - A. Yes. I saw some long poles like branches of trees; I have heard hammering and sawing going forward in the room. My master was taken up on the 24th of February.
Q. On the Sunday before that was there any meeting in that room - A. Yes, the persons I have named were present with others - it was a larger meeting than usual; they went away one or two at a time - my master was with them; after the meeting was over I saw Strange in the room with my master - he had been at the meeting.
Q. On Monday evening was there a meeting - A. Yes, and on Tuesday evening. On Wednesday several persons came at different times, some in the morning and some in the afternoon.
Q. Do you remember any of them coming into your workshop - A. Yes, Strange and a man whom I do not know - this was about two o'clock; they were flinting five or six pistols. One of them said there were persons overlooking them from the opposite house, and Brunt told them to go into the back room, which they did - Brunt was in the back room several times in the course of the day. I saw Thistlewood there about four o'clock, he came to me for a piece of writing-paper, which I gave him, and he took it into the back room. After that Brunt came out, gave me 6 d., and told me to go and get six sheets of cartridge-paper; I went and bought six sheets, gave them to him, and he took them into the back room - my master went away about six o'clock. Before he went away a man whom I do not know came into our room.
Q. After Brunt was gone did you do any thing respecting your mistress' tea - A. Yes. She wanted a table out of the back room, and by her desire I knocked
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160028"/>at the back room door, asked for it, and Potter gave it out to me. I saw four or five men there then, and a fire in the room.
Q. In the course of the evening did you meet Tidd - A. He came to Mrs. Brunt's room; she took him to the cupboard, shewed him a pike-head and sword, and asked him what she could do with them? he said he would take them away, he did so - this was between seven and eight o'clock. He went into the back room after that. I heard some persons going down stairs - a person came and told me if any persons came and enquired they were to go to the White Hart. Shortly after three persons came, they did not know the way, and I shewed them. I returned, and as I stood at the door Potter came; I sent him there, and he went.
Q. About what time did your master come home - A. About nine o'clock - his boots and the tail of his coat were very muddy, he seemed rather confused. He told his wife it was all up, or words to that effect, and said where they had been a lot of officers came in, and he had saved his life, and that was all. Just as he said this another person came in, Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had informed? he said No. The man said he had a terrible blow on the side and was knocked down - they spoke as if they had been together. Brunt said there was something to be done yet, and they went away together. My mistress and I then went into the room, there were several things in the cupboard, a large pole in the corner of the room, and several rolls of brown paper and tar in the cupboard, and some round balls made of string and tar over them - I have since heard they were called hand-grenades; the officers found them there next morning. There was also an iron pot and some flannel bags, two of them full of something, they were left there. My master came home about eleven o'clock, and told me to get up early in the morning, and clean his boots.
Q. In the morning did you do so - A. Yes, and he asked me if I knew Snow's-fields? I said No. He then directed me how to find it, and told me to go to Potter's, in Kirby-street, Snow's-fields. He took me into the back room, told me to take a rush basket up, and he took another - he told me to put the things into them out of the cupboard which I saw there the night before, I did so. One of the baskets was tied up in a blue apron of Mrs. Brunt's, which had been used as a curtain to the window of the back room. Brunt went into his own room to look for something to tie the other in, but two police officers came in and apprehended him.
Q. How many do you think met there on the Sunday - A. About twenty.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. You told us on Tuesday that you found a piece of cartridge-paper in the cupboard - A. Yes. I was not particularly surprised at their meetings. I did not know what they were about. I never saw many arms. I was never in a Court of Justice before, nor ever before a Magistrate, except about this business.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person114"> THOMAS SMART
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person114" type="surname" value="SMART"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person114" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person114" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the watchmen of St. George, Hanover-square. On Tuesday night, the 22d of February, I was on the watch in Grosvenor-square, and saw four very suspicious characters about half-past eight or a quarter before nine. One of them was a man of colour, a tall man was with him - they were looking down the areas, and lurking about as if they were after no good.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person115"> CHARLES BISSEX
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person115" type="surname" value="BISSEX"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person115" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person115" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the watchman of St. George, Hanover-square. On the 22d of February, I was calling half-past eight o'clock - it wanted then a quarter to nine - two men passed me, one was a man of colour; he said,
"Watchman, is it almost nine o'clock?" I said
"No, it wants a few minutes to it."

<persName id="t18200416-1-person116"> HENRY GILLON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person116" type="surname" value="GILLON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person116" type="given" value="HENRY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person116" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Mount-street, Berkeley-square. I was at the Rising Sun, public-house, at the corner of Charles-street and Adams'-mews, on Tuesday night the 22d of February, and played at dominos with Brunt for about half an hour. I first saw him there between nine and ten o'clock, another man was with him - they had some bread and cheese and porter. I left about ten o'clock, leaving them there. I was there before they came in.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. How do you knew it was the 22d of February - A. By a list which I have when I carry out medicine.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person117"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person117" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person117" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person117" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am journeyman to
<persName id="t18200416-1-person118"> Henry Thomas Underwood
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person118" type="surname" value="Thomas Underwood"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person118" type="given" value="Henry"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person118" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , who is a cutler, and lives in Drury-lane. On Christmas eve the prisoner, Ings, brought a sword to be sharpened, he was dressed like a butcher. He called for it about three days after, and paid 9 d. for grinding it.
Q. Did he give any direction about it - A. To grind the point particularly sharp, and to make it cut both back and edge - it was a very short sabre. He gave me the name of Ings, as near as I can recollect. He afterwards brought another very long sabre, and told me to grind it in the same manner as the first.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person119"> EDWARD SIMPSON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person119" type="surname" value="SIMPSON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person119" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person119" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am corporal-major of the second regiment of Life Guards - the prisoner, Harrison, was formerly in that regiment; he has been on duty at King-street barracks - his duty would make him perfectly acquainted with every part of them. The barracks join Gloucester-mews. There were some windows which looked into the mews; they were stopped up three days after the affair in Cato-street; there was hay and straw opposite the window in the mews. If fire was thrown in, and it communicated with the straw, it would undoubtedy destroy the barracks.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person120"> JOHN ALDOUS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person120" type="surname" value="ALDOUS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person120" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person120" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a pawnbroker, and live in Berwick-street, Soho. The prisoner, Davidson, pledged a brass-barrelled blunderbuss with me; he redeemed it on the 23d of February, in the morning - I have since seen it in the possession of Ruthven.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person121"> THOMAS HIDEN
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person121" type="surname" value="HIDEN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person121" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person121" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I have carried on business as a cow-keeper and dairy-man, in Manchester-mews; I have known the prisoner, Wilson, some months before last February.
Q. Shortly before the 23d of February did he make any proposition to you - A. He did. He met me, and asked if I would be one of a party that was going to meet to destroy his Majesty's ministers? he said they had got such things as I never saw, that they were made of tin, wound round with tarpauling and tarred, and were very strong, so that if they were set fire to they would blow up one of the walls of the houses where we were walking. He said they were to destroy his Majesty's ministers, that they had
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160029"/>got every thing ready, and were waiting for a cabinet dinner, and when there was one he would let me know, and that they were going to light up several fires - he mentioned the houses of Lord Harrowby, the Duke of Wellington, Lords Sidmouth and Castlereagh, the Bishop of London, and another which I do not remember. He said I had no occasion to be afraid, for there was a gentleman's servant who had supplied them with a certain sum of money, and if they would act on the subject he would give them a considerable sum more. He told me, that by lighting up the fires it would keep the town in confusion for a few days, and then it would become general. He said the things were to be lit by a fusee, and those who escaped the explosion were to die by the edge of the sword or some other way.
Q. Did he offer to introduce you to any person - A. He said, if I would make one of the party, which they depended upon, that Thistlewool would be glad to see me - I said I would make one.
Q. Before the discovery in Cato-street did you give information - A. I wrote a letter to Lord Castlereagh two or three days after I had seen Wilson. I could not see his Lordship, and delivered the letter to Lord Harrowby at Grosvenor-gate, in Hyde Park. I do not remember the day.
Q. On the day of the discovery in Cato-street did you see Wilson again - A. Yes, he met me in Manchester-street, as I was going along with my little girl in my hand, he said,
"You are the very man I want to see." I said,
"Wilson, what is there going to be?" he said,
"Tonight there is to be a cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby's, in Grosvenor-square;" and I was to be sure to come. I was to come, he said, to John-street, to the Horse and Groom, or stop at the post in Cato-street till I was shoved into a stable close by. I was to meet him at a quarter before six o'clock, or by six. I asked him how many there were going to be? he said twenty or thirty. I asked him if that was all? he said that was not all, there was a party in the Borough, another in Gray's Inn-lane, and another in the City, or Gee's-court. I am not certain which. He said all Gee's-court were in it, but they would not act unless the English began first, for they had been deceived so many times - I believe Irishmen lived in Gee's-court. He said, after they left Grosvenor-square they meant to retreat towards the Mansion House, for that was where all the parties were to meet.
Q. Did he mention any thing that was to be done at other places - A. He said there were some cannon - they could very easily get two pieces in Gray's Inn-lane, and six more from the Artillery Ground, which they could get by killing the centinel. I said I would be sure to come; I would be there by six o'clock, or a quarter before. I went between six and seven, I was behind my time - I think it was near seven. I saw Wilson and Davidson standing at the corner of the court by Cato-street - I had known Davidson a long time before. Davidson asked me if I was going in, saying Mr. Thistlewood was there. I said I could not go in, for I must go to fetch some cream, and asked him what time they should go away from there? he said about eight o'clock, and if they were gone away I was to follow them to Grosvenor-square, at the bottom of the square; I should find them at the fourth house at the further corner. The last words he said were,
"Come, you dog, come! it is the best thing you ever was in in your life."
Q. Is this the letter you delivered to Lord Harrowby - A. It is - (looks at one.)
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Is it your own writing - A. It is. I have been a cow-keeper four years and a milkman five. I was brought up to the farming business, and have been a gentleman's servant; the last place I lived in was with Colonel Bridges, in South Audley-street, I believe it is No. 67 - it was about six years ago, it might be seven years. I did not live there above two or three months - it might not be a month.
Q. Was it a fortnight - A. More than that, and it may be more than a month. I lived with Major
<persName id="t18200416-1-person122">Dine</persName> , in 1810, in Tavistock-street, Bedford-square, for fifteen months, as footman. I have lived in Manchester-mews three years.
Q. Have you lived there the whole of that time - A. My family have. I was from home three or four months.
Q. Where do you live now - A. I am over in the Bench now. I am not ashamed of the place. I am in the Marshalsea prison.
Q. Did you not say you were in the Bench - A. I said I was in the Marshalsea; I do not think I said I was in the Bench. I was taken in execution for 18 l. 2 s. due to Mr. Powell. I went to prison last Saturday - he sued me some time the beginning of last Summer. I was out of the way in June, July, and August.
Q. Was it not October - A. I do not think it was. My wife and daughters carry on my business. They lived in Manchester-mews till last Saturday.
Q. Did you not say on Monday last that you lived in Manchester-mews - A. My family do, and are there now for what I know. I saw my sister to-day, and she told me they were there now, and go there two or three times a day. I have known Davidson three or four months.
Q. Do you know a Mr. Edwards - A. I do not.
Q. Try to recollect yourself; do not you know any person of that name - A. I know a person of that name - he lives two or three hundred miles off; I should not suppose you meant him.
Q. Do you frequent the Scotch Arms - A. I have been there twice - it is in a small court in the Strand. I attended what they call the Shoemaker's Club twice there. I went with a friend named Clark, a master tailor.
Q. It was not a Radical meeting, was it - A. I do not know.
Q. Were politics or the reform of the State the subjects of debate - A. I do not know - it was eight or nine months ago; I will not swear whether it was or was not. I had some conversation with Davidson at the door, in Cato-street.
Q. Had you any other conversation with him respecting this particular affair - A. Yes, about a week or a fortnight before. I was never at any meeting in Fox-court. I knew nothing of the affair till Wilson told me.
Q. The cream was a thing of great profit to you - A. It was; I should get two or three shillings for it. - it was for a family in Princes-street, I do not know the name; I believe it is No. 6. I have served them for three or four
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160030"/>years. My wife gave me the order; I did not go to the house - I do not serve them myself.
Q. Were you ever at the house yourself - A. Many a time.
Q. It is very probable that I shall send there before tomorrow morning, now, how much cream was ordered - A. I cannot say; I could not get it. I do not know the name of any person in the house. I always get my money without any trouble.
Q. Was it the first or second time you met that he said
"You have no occasion to be alarmed, for a gentleman's servant will supply money" - A. It was the first time. He repeated it more than once or twice. I have known him a great while. He mentioned it both times. He said the servant's master was a ministerial man. I never went into Cato-street. I went no further than John-street.
MR. GURNEY. Q. Did you continue to carry on business as a milkman till Saturday last - A. My family did, and have the premises now. My wife generally serves the house in Princes-street. I think it is the first door out of Cavendish-square on the right-hand side.
THE RIGHT HON.
<persName id="t18200416-1-person123"> LORD HARROWBY
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person123" type="surname" value="HARROWBY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person123" type="given" value="LORD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person123" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of his Majesty's Privy Council. It is usual for the members of the council who form the cabinet to dine at each others' houses. The dinners had been interrupted by the death of his late Majesty.
Q. Did your Lordship cause cards to be issued, inviting the members of the cabinet to dine with you on Wednesday, the 23d of February - A. I did, on the latter end of the preceeding week. If nothing had occurred the dinner would have taken place.
Q. Will your Lordship have the goodness to enumerate the company that would have been assembled -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person124">A. </persName> (Here his Lordship stated the names of the cabinet ministers as on the former trial) - there would have been fourteen besides myself - they are all members of the Privy Council. My house is on the south side of Grosvenor-square, next door to the Archbishop of York's.
Q. On Tuesday, the 22d of February was your Lordship riding in the Park - A. I was, and was accosted by a person, whom I now know to be Hiden. He delivered this letter to me, addressed to Lord Castlereagh, and spoke of it as business of material importance to Lord Castlereagh, myself, and others, and begged of me to deliver it to Lord Castlereagh. I was then going home to dress for the council at
<persName id="t18200416-1-person125"> Carlton Palace
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person125" type="surname" value="Palace"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person125" type="given" value="Carlton"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person125" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , and not finding Lord Castlereagh there I dispatched it to him with a note from myself.
Q. Did Hiden, at your Lordship's desire, give you his card - A. He did, and I met him next morning in Hyde Park in the plantation, by appointment; he made a communication to me respecting a plan for attacking the ministers at my house, in consequence of which the dinner was given up, and I dined at Fife House, but the preparations were carried on precisely the same as if the company were to dine, until I dispatched a note to inform the servants that the cabinet would not dine. I believe that note must have reached my house about eight o'clock - I had concealed it from my servants.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. I believe your Lordship had some intimation of this before the letter was delivered to you - A. I had intimation at a period considerably antecedent to this of a design of this nature.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person126"> JOHN BAKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person126" type="surname" value="BAKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person126" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person126" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am butler to Lord Harrowby. By his Lordship's desire, on Friday or Saturday, I issued cards of invitation for a cabinet dinner; the preparation for dinner went on till about eight o'clock. I received information from his Lordship about eight o'clock or ten minutes past, that the dinner would not take place. Down to that period neither myself nor any of the servants knew that it would not take place.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person127"> JOHN MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person127" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person127" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person127" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am now a prisoner in the Tower. I remember meeting Thistlewood at the house of one Ford two or three months before the meeting in Cato-street. He called on me about a fortnight or three weeks afterwards in company with the prisoner, Brunt - my mother and brother were in the room; Thistlewood was in the room about five minutes, then called me outside the door, saying he wanted to speak to me - I went out with him, and Brunt remained in the room. He said great events were at hand, the people were every where anxious for a change, and he had been promised support by many people who had deceived him, but now he had got men who would stand by him. He asked me if I had any arms? I told him No. He said no one should be without arms, and every one they belonged to had got arms; some had a sabre, some a pistol, and some a pike, and that I might buy a pistol for 4 s. or 5 s. I said I had no money to buy pistols - he said he should see what he could do. We returned to the room, and Brunt and Thistlewood went away together.
Q. After this did Brunt call on you by himself - A. He did, two or three days after; he said he was in a hurry, for he had several people waiting for him down stairs, and he had to call on several people in our trade.
Q. Do you remember Brunt calling on you on the 22d of February - A. Yes, he called in company with Tidd between two and three o'clock. I said,
"I thought I had lost you." He said the King's death had made an alteration in their plans. I asked him what plans? he said there would be a meeting on the following evening at Tyburn turnpike, where I should know all the particulars. He turned round to Tidd, and asked him if he should give me the word; Tidd said Yes, he supposed there was no danger. He said if I saw people about I was to go to them and say B. U. T., and if they were friends they would answer T. O. N., making the word button; he then said he would be at our house the following morning, and tell me farther particulars - he and Tidd then went away.
Q. Now, on Wednesday did Brunt call - A. Yes, between four and five o'clock alone - he called me down stairs - my brother was up stairs. He told me he wanted me to go with him for half an hour. I told him I could not, for I had got some work to do which must be finished, and I could not go at that time. He asked me what time my work would be done? I said not till six o'clock. He said I must go to Tidd's, and told me where Tidd lived, in Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market - he then went away. I went to Tidd's about half-past six o'clock, and found him at home; he said he was waiting for some more men, but they had not come, and he would not wait longer than seven o'clock. Nobody came, and he and I went to a box in the corner of the room, and took a pistol,
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160031"/>put it into a belt, and put it round his body under his great coat; he took a bundle of pike-heads, I suppose about six or eight, and wrapped them in a brown paper, and took them in his hand. He also took a staff about four feet long; it had a hole at one end to receive a pike-head, as I suppose. I accompanied him through Brook-street up Holborn, where he gave me the stick to carry, and as we were going along Oxford-street I asked what we were going about? He said I should know when I got there. I asked him if we were going to the House of Commons? He said No, there were too many soldiers about there. I asked him again, and he said they were going to Grosvenor-square. I asked him if anybody in particular lived there? he said there was to be a cabinet dinner there that evening - nothing farther passed. He took me to Cato-street through a gateway, and on the right-hand side of the way there was a stable.
Q. When you got there what happened - A. There were two people standing there whom I do not know - he said a few words to them, and we entered the stable; three or four men were there and a light. He asked if Mr. Thistlewood was up stairs? they said Yes, and we went up stairs; there were about twenty-two or twenty-three people there, according to what I could tell - Thistlewood was one of them; there was a carpenter's bench, and a great many swords and pistols on it. There was a man in a brown great coat sitting on a box by the bench; he spoke of the impropriety of going with so small a number of men as twenty-five to Lord Harrowby's, and Thistlewood said there were quite sufficient, for supposing Lord Harrowby had sixteen servants, fourteen men would be quite enough to go into the room. The man said what should they do when they came out of the room, for most likely a crowd would be about the door, and how should they escape?" Thistlewood said to him,
"You know this is the smallest body, and the largest is already away." The prisoner, Davidson, told the man in the brown coat not to throw cold water on their proceedings, for if he was afraid of his life he might go. Brunt then said that sooner than leave the business they were going about he would go into the room by himself, and blow them all up if he perished with them. He said we knew we had that which would do it, or words to that effect. The man in the brown coat said he did not like their going with so small a number, yet if they were all for it he would not be against it. He then proposed that they should put themselves under the orders of Mr. Thistlewod. Thistlewood then said that every man engaged in this business would have the same honour as himself; he then proposed that the fourteen men to go into the room should volunteer themselves from the rest. Twelve or thirteen persons then arranged themselves on the other side of the room, and one of them, Tidd, came out to speak to me, on which Thistlewood came forward, and said,
"You all know your places." I do not recollect any thing particular passing afterwards - the officers came up in about five minutes; it seemed that two or three got up before those in the room knew it. One of them said they were officers, told them to surrender, and said there was a guard of soldiers below - I was taken into custody in the room, and have been in custody ever since.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Thistlewood side every man would have equal honour with himself, what was to be your post - A. I do not know; fear led me there. Brunt said the day before that every one who had engaged in it, and did not come forward, should be destroyed.
Q. Did you go to a place to do you knew not what - A. Why, I was foolish, I was afraid they were going after something bad by his taking pistols.
Q. I think you said last Tuesday that he said there was to be a cabinet dinner, and then you fully understood what they were going about - A. I said I asked no questions when they said there was a cabinet dinner, because I was certain they would be going about nothing but to destroy the persons there assembled. I went to none of the meetings. I believe I saw Thistlewood before I saw him at Fox's. I was at the Finsbury meeting.
Q. What prevented you from going to a Magistrate, and telling your fears - A. I should not have liked to have done that.
Q. When you found yourself in custody your concience struck you - A. I never intended to do anything - I meant to get from them when they got out.
Q. Thistlewood told the man in the brown coat to go away for they would have no cowards there, why did you not go then - A. I wished at the time that they had said that to me. I joined them from fear, and certainly have acted very foolishly. I did not know their intention.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person128"> THOMAS MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person128" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person128" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person128" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am brother of the last witness I remember Thistlewood calling at our lodging, and bringing Brunt along with him, they remained in the room between five and ten minutes, then Thistlewood asked my brother if he could speak to him - they went outside the door, and in about five minutes returned into the room again. On Tuesday, the 22d of February, Brunt called upon my brother, and brought a man with him named Tidd. My brother said to Brunt,
"I thought I had lost you." There was something said about the King's death. Brunt said it had made some little alteration in their plans. My brother asked what plans? Brunt said they had different objects in view, and then said to Tidd,
"Suppose we give him the outline of the plan?" I did not bear Tidd say anything to that. Brunt then told my brother to meet him up at Tyburn turnpike the next evening about eight o'clock, which he agreed to do - they then gave him the pass-word B. U. T, and said if he met any of their party the answer would be T. O. N. Brunt called about five o'clock the next evening, and asked my brother if he was ready to go? he told him he was not, that he had to finish some work. Brunt told him to call at Tidd's house, in Hole in the Wall-passage, and he would take him. My brother went a little before seven o'clock; I did not see him again until after he was in custody.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person129"> GEORGE CAYLOCK
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person129" type="surname" value="CAYLOCK"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person129" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person129" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 2, Cato-street. I know Harrison - on the 23d of February I saw him in Cato-street going into the stable, and asked him how he did? he said very well. He said he had taken some chambers there, and was going to clean them up. I saw several persons going in and out of the stables from five till seven o'clock.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN. I am an officer of Bow-street. I went to Cato-street on the 23d of February about six o'clock in the evening, and went to the stable about eight
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160032"/>o'clock, I entered the stable about half-past eight, and observed a man with a gun on his shoulder, marching as a centinel - I told some of our party to secure him. I went up a ladder into the loft, and observed several men standing round a carpenter's bench, I think about twenty-four or twenty-five. I heard the clattering of arms, saw several swords and pistols; I was followed up by three or four of our party, and am sure Ellis and Smithers followed me up. When I got up to the loft, I said
"We are officers, seize the arms;" I do not recollect anything being said before. Thistlewood was standing by the side of the carpenter's bench, he turned himself, took a sword off the bench, and drew back into a little room - the sword was drawn at the time he took it up; it appeared a very long sword, and was very bright. I knew Thistlewood before. I did not hear Ellis say anything. Smithers passed me, and approached the door where Thistlewood was, who was fencing with the sword; on Smithers approaching Thistlewood stabbed him. A pistol was fired almost the instant that Smithers was stabbed, the lights put out, and a great rush made towards the staircase - somebody called out,
"Kill the b - g - rs, throw them down stairs!" I said,
"Ah, kill them, throw them down stairs!" I rushed through the stable, got into John-street, and met the soldiers. I returned, and on my return I saw Tidd coming out of the stable door - the door was open - he was going in a kind of shuffling, neither walking or running. I saw somebody following him, and called to him to take hold of him; I saw Tidd lift up his arm with a pistol in his hand, and appeared to be going to fire it, I caught hold of his arm, had a scuffle, fell upon a dunghill, he fell upon me, and the pistol went off - Sergeant
<persName id="t18200416-1-person130">Legge</persName> came up, and secured him. We took him to the Horse and Groom, at the corner of Cato-street, searched him, and found two ball cartridges in his breeches-pocket; he had a belt round his waist. Bradburn was brought in while I was there - I searched him, and in his breeches-pocket I found six ball cartridges and three bullets; a string was twisted six or eight times round his waist, to answer the purpose of a belt. Davidson was brought in, and began to sing
"Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled, &c." and d - n - d the man that would not die in liberty's cause - he gloried in it. I did not search him. Wilson was brought in - I did not search him. I returned to the loft, found several soldiers, four of the prisoners, and some of the officers in the room.
Q. When Smithers received the thrust with the sword what took place - A. He said,
"Oh, my God!" or
"I am done!" I do not know which. I afterwards went to the stable and found the arms. (Here the witness produced the several quantities of arms and ammunition taken from the prisoners or found at Cato-street, the same as stated in the former trial.)
Q. Before you left the public-house did Wilson say any thing - A. He said he did not care a d - n, he knew it was all over, and they might as well kill him now as at another time.
Q. Before you went into the stable did you go to the Horse and Groom - A. I did, and while I was there Cooper and Gilchrist came in - Cooper had a broom-stick, which he left in the house, I took possession of it that night. Gilchrist came back for it, but did not get it. It was cut round at one end, as if to receive the socket of any thing.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. How many lights were there - A. As near as I can tell, in the two rooms, there were about eight. I think there were four in the loft and four in the little room - but that I guess from the blaze. All I said was,
"We are officers, seize their arms!"

<persName id="t18200416-1-person131"> JAMES ELLIS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person131" type="surname" value="ELLIS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person131" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person131" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the conductors of the patrol of Bow-street. On Wednesday evening, the 23d of February, I went to the stable in Cato-street, John-street. I entered the stable as close to Ruthven as possible. There was a light in the stable; I found the men there. The first man I observed was standing about half-way between the door and the ladder, at the end leading to the loft - I believe it to be Davidson. I took him by the collar, turned him half round, and believe it to be him. He had a short gun or carbine on his right side, and in his left a long sword, and two white cross-belts across his shoulder. I took him him by the collar, turned him half round, and desired some of the others close by to secure him. I then observed a man before me at the foot of the ladder, in the further stall of the stable; he appeared to be a short man, and had a dark-coloured coat on. I took very little notice of him, but followed Ruthven up the ladder, and heard a man from below call out,
"Above, men!" I cannot be positive as to the words, but I understood it to be a signal to those above. Smithers followed me up the ladder, I heard a rattling of swords when we came to the top. Ruthven called out,
"We are officers, seize their arms!" or
"surrender your arms!" - it was to that effect. There were three or four lights in the loft, but how many I cannot say; there were other lights in the little room. The candles were placed on the bench which stood across the room. The moment I gained the top of the ladder I observed a number of men retreating to the top of the room towards the wall. I saw Thistlewood and two or three others between the end of the carpenter's bench and the little room, and immediately on my going to the top of the ladder Thistlewood shook his sword at me, as if to make a stab, I desired him to desist or I would fire at him. I had a pistol in my right hand, and a constable's staff in my left, which I held out at him, on this he retreated, backing into the little room. At that moment Smithers, having gained the top of the ladder, rushed forwards to enter the door of the little room. The moment he gained the door Thistlewood stabbed him in the right breast. Smithers held up his hands, exclaiming,
"Oh, my God!" and fell almost immediately; upon this I fired my pistol at Thistlewood. The lights were all put out the moment I fired. The flash of my pistol was the last light I saw. Great confusion took place - a rush was made against me, and I was thrown down the ladder.
Q. Were there any other shots fired - A. Several were fired in the loft while I was on the ladder. I recovered myself in the stable, and got to the door - two shots were fired and passed me in the doorway - a third was fired, but I could not exactly tell from where. Another shot was fired in the stable by a man who stood there, and when I got to the door some shots were fired from the window of the little room above, which looks into Cato-street. I heard the cry of Stop thief! and saw a man running away down Cato-street, towards Queen-street - I saw he had white cross belts; I pursued, and caught him in Cato-street - it
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160033"/>turned out to be Davidson, the man of colour. On my laying hold of him he made a cut with his sword, which I believe was intended for me. Gill and Champion, my brother officers, came up, and assisted in securing him. I left him in their custody and returned to the stables - I found the soldiers there, and four of the prisoners in their custody in the loft. Monument was one, and I believe Strang and Wilson were two others. I fetched Davidson to the loft, and they were taken to Bow-street.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person132"> WILLIAM WESTCOAT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person132" type="surname" value="WESTCOAT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person132" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person132" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a conductor of the Bow-street patrol, and accompanied Ruthven and the other officers to the stable in Cato-street. I did not go into the loft at first. When they got up I heard a confusion and a noise of firing in the room. I observed the prisoner, Ings, in the stable - he rushed towards me, as if to get out of the stable; I seized him by the collar, and shoved him back against the wall at the foot of the ladder. He was going to put his hand to his right side, as I thought to get a weapon; I hit him one blow on the right side of his head and knocked him down.
Q. What then - A. The officers came tumbling down the ladder. I heard firing above stairs, and saw a flash of a pistol from the ladder, it appeared to be fired into the stable. I then observed Thistlewood came down the ladder into the stable - I believe him to be the man who fired the pistol; when he came into the stable he turned round, presented a pistol at my head, and fired. I put my left hand up and found myself wounded in my hand, the ball went into my hat, for I found three holes in it. I left Ings to defend myself, and then received a blow on my right side and fell. The shot went right through the sleeve of my coat.
Q. As you fell did you observe Tidd do anything - A. He made a cut at me with his sword, and rushed out at the stable door. When the officers went up the ladder I heard somebody say something, but I cannot say what. Ings escaped.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person133"> LUKE NIXON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person133" type="surname" value="NIXON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person133" type="given" value="LUKE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person133" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I went with the other officers to the stable in Cato-street, and saw Westcoat in contact with Ings. I saw Ings leave the stable, and made a snatch at him to catch him - he got out. I do not think Thistlewood had got away then. I ran after Ings up John-street, heard a pistol fired in John-street, and found him in custody of Brooks and Champion.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person134"> JOSEPH CHAMPION
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person134" type="surname" value="CHAMPION"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person134" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person134" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I went to Cato-street on the 23d of February, and followed Ruthven up the ladder - I was the sixth or seventh man behind him. I saw Ings at the foot of the ladder, he held up his head towards the loft, and said,
"Look out, look out above!" Westcoat was endeavouring to secure him, and struck him a violent blow - he fell. When I returned from the ladder Ings was gone. I afterwards found him in custody of Brooks and the watchman. I took him, searched him, found four pistol balls, the key of a pistol, and a knife-case, made of blue cloth, for a large knife - the knife produced fits the case - he had no knife on him when we searched him; the knife has wax-end round the handle. I saw Brooks find two haversacks slung under his great coat, in one of them was a tin case, containing a quantity of loose powder; he had also a cloth belt round his side for pistols - it was adapted to receive pistols. That is all that was found on him, except a paper.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person135"> JOHN WRIGHT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person135" type="surname" value="WRIGHT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person135" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person135" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol, and was at the stable on the 23d of February. I went to the foot of the ladder, and saw a man in the further stall of the stable - it was a man of the same size and appearance as Ings. I cannot say it was him. I took a knife from him with wax-end round the handle, and a sword about three feet long, with a brass handle.
Q. After you took these things from him, what happened to you - A. I received a blow, was knocked down, and received a stab in my side; on recovering I found the man was gone. I searched Wilson - he said nothing that I remember.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person136"> WILLIAM CHARLES BROOKS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person136" type="surname" value="CHARLES BROOKS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person136" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person136" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the Bow-street patrol, and was in John-street. I saw the prisoner, Ings, running up the street as I crossed the way - one of my partners was before him with a cutlass. Ings presented a pistol at me, said he would shoot me, and fired. I snatched at the pistol, the powder scorched my hand, and the ball went through the sleeve of my great coat, through my collar, and out at the back of my neck - it bruised my shoulder - this threw me into the middle of the road, Ings also came into the road, and turned into Edgware-road - at that moment he threw the pistol away; Moye, the watchman, laid hold of him, and I caught hold of him at the same time - I never lost sight of him. I said,
"You rascal, why did you fire at me, a man you never saw before?" He said,
"To kill you, and I wish I had done it." He repeated it to me, and told the soldiers so also.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person137"> WILLIAM LEE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person137" type="surname" value="LEE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person137" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person137" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I went to the Horse and Groom in the evening of 23d of February; before the officers went to the stable, I saw Cooper and Gilchrist go into the public-house - they were taken up that night, and taken to Bow-street.
CAPTAIN FITZCLARENCE. I am a Lieutenant of the Coldstream Guards. I was applied to on the 23d of February to go to Cato-street, with a piquet. I arrived and entered the stable three or four minutes after eight o'clock; under the gateway leading to Cato-street, I saw a police officer, who cried out,
"Soldiers, soldiers, the stable door - the stable door." On getting to the stable door I saw two men, one of whom presented a pistol at me, and at the same time a man with a sword made a cut at me, which I parried. On seeing the piquet coming up he ran into the stable; I followed him, and the moment I got in I ran against a man, who surrendered himself, saying,
"Don't kill me, and I will tell you all." I gave him over to the piquet, and ran forward into the stable, went up to one of the stalls, and took another man out, who I gave to the piquet also. I then ran up the steps into the loft - I headed the men. There was only sufficient room for one to go up at a time; the first thing I fell over was the body of Smithers. I secured three, four, or five people in the room, and went down.
Q. Did you see any arms in the loft - A. A large quantity, consisting of blunderbusses, swords, pistols, and pikes. The soldiers picked up some arms in the stable.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160034"/>
<persName id="t18200416-1-person138"> WILLIAM LEGGE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person138" type="surname" value="LEGGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person138" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person138" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am sergeant of the second battalion of Coldstream Guards. I went to Cato-street with a party commanded by Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person139">Fitzclarence</persName> . I directed the party to advance in quick time. I got to a gateway - just before that I heard the report of pistols, and saw a man standing against the wall by the stable in Cato-street, he had a pistol in his hand, which he levelled at Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person140">Fitzclarence</persName> - it was turned away by me; I then seized the pistol with my left hand, and a scuffle ensued between the prisoner, Tidd, and me - the pistol went off as we both held it; he held the trigger end - it tore my coat. I delivered Tidd to one of the police officers. I kept the pistol. After going on to the left I saw Cooper, Monument, and Gilchrist, who had surrendered.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person141"> SAMUEL HERCULES TAUNTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person141" type="surname" value="HERCULES TAUNTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person141" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person141" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I belong to Bow-street office. On Thursday morning, the 24th of February, I went to Brunt's lodgings, and apprehended him there. I searched, but found nothing in the front rooms; I went to the back room, and found two rush baskets, both packed up, one was tied in a blue apron; there was nothing in the room but two baskets and a pike handle; he said he knew nothing about them. They were in his presence when I asked him.
Q. Did you afterwards open them - A. I did, and found one basket contained nine papers of rope yarn, tar, and other ingredients, in separate papers - they are calculated easily to take fire; I tried some in the fire and it burnt. I also found some steel filings in the basket. The other basket contained four hand-grenades, three more papers of rope yarn and tar, and two bags of powder, 1 lb. each, they were whole flannel bags, about six inches long, and five flannel bags, empty, of the same sort; one small paper of gunpowder, and a leather bag containing sixty-three bullets. I also found an iron pot in the room, which appeared to have had far very recently boiled in it. and a pike handle with a ferrel at the end, with a socket.
Q. Did you afterwards go to Hole in the Wall-passage to Tidd's - A. Yes, in about three quarters of an hour - it was about nine o'clock in the morning. I searched his apartment, and found 434 bullets in a haversack, 171 ball cartridges loose, 96 ball cartridges without powder, a brown paper parcel containing 3 lbs. of gunpowder; in a brown paper wrapper were ten grenades, eleven bags of gunpowder of 1 lb. each, the same sort of flannel bags as those found at Brunt's, and ten flannel bags empty; a small linen bag with powder in it, sixty-eight bullets, four flints, twenty-seven pike-handles, of the same description as I mentioned - they were rough sticks with ferrels and stocks at the end. I also found a box there, containing 965 ball cartridges.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Have you searched for Palin - A. Yes. There was a reward offered for his apprehension. I have not searched after Potter and Cook.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Has Palin absconded - A. Yes. The reward was to apprehend him for the part he took in this business. - Adjourned.
FIFTH DAY, SATURDAY, APRIL 22.
Examination resumed.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person142"> DANIEL BISHOP
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person142" type="surname" value="BISHOP"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person142" type="given" value="DANIEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person142" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I apprehended Thistlewood on the 24th of February, between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning, at No. 8, White-street, Moorfields, in the apartment of a Mrs. Harris; he lived in Stanhope-street, Clare-market. I found him in bed with his stockings and breeches on. On my entering the room he raised his head from under the bed-clothes - I had a pistol in one hand and my staff in the other. I threw myself on the bed, and said,
"Mr. Thistlewood, my name is Bishop, an officer of Bow-street, I have a warrant against you" - he said,
"I shall make no resistance." His coat and waistcoat were by the bedside; in the pocket of the waistcoat I found three leaden ball, a ball cartridge, a blank cartridge, two flints, and a small silk sash. I took him into custody, and conveyed him to Bow-street.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. How did you find out where he was - A. In consequence of information which came to me from an officer - it was not from Edwards; I know no such person.
RUTHVEN here produced the whole of the arms, &c.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person143"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person143" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person143" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person143" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. This is the sword I first sharpened for Ings - (looks at the sword). Since I ground it it appears to have been sharpened on a stone, to help the keenness of the edge.
(TAUNTON here produced the two baskets and ammunition, found at Brunt's, with their contents, as stated in the former trial; also those found at Tidd's.)
G. T. J. RUTHVEN re-examined. Q. Were the firearms found at Cato-street loaded - A. Most of them were loaded with ball - one or two had been fired off.
S. H. HANSON. I am a sergeant in the Royal Artillery - (examining the fire-balls) - they are composed of oakum, tar, and rosin. If they were thrown into any building they would be sure to set it on fire - they would set wood on fire if they were thrown on a floor; they would set a house on fire, if thrown into a hay-loft; some of them would burn three or four minutes. The flannel bags of gunpowder are cartridges for a six-pounder. It is the way powder is made up for loading cannon.
Q. Now, take one of the hand-grenades to pieces, and shew us what it is composed of - (he does so) - A. The exterior is a tight binding of rope-yarn and tar, which would make the explosion much greater - if loose it would not have half its effect. Under it is a binding of woollen cloth or stuff, cemented on very fast, and this encloses cart-tire nails; under this is a tin case, containing 3 1/2 oz. of powder, which is lit by means of the fusee. It would explode, and disperse the nails about like so many shot - the binding would make the explosion much stronger.
JURY. Q. Could anybody manufacture them without being connected with the army - A. Yes. It is nothing like our army grenade - it is not made like it by any means. The effect would be very dangerous; the nails would fly about, killing and maiming those in the room. There is a piece of blanket round. The fusee is brazed on, and each end brazed in. It is very good gunpowder,
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160035"/>and has rather more powder than we put to burst a nine-inch shell.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. My Lords, this is the case on the part of the Crown.
MR. CURWOOD rose, and addressed the Jury on behalf of the prisoner, and called

<persName id="t18200416-1-person144"> THOMAS CHAMBERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person144" type="surname" value="CHAMBERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person144" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person144" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 3, Heathcock-court, Strand, nearly opposite the Adelphi. I have seen a man named Adams in company with Edwards; it was about a week before the Cato-street business took place. I saw him in my room.
Q. Who were there - A. Myself, Edwards, and Adams - they came together, and made a proposition to me to join a party to assassinate His Majesty's ministers. Edwards asked me to go with them, I refused. Adams said they were going to kill the ministers, and they would have blood and wine for supper.
Q. Did Adams and Edwards come to you again at your lodgings - A. On the Monday night of the week the Cato-street business took place, they came with a large bag, and wanted to leave it.
MR. GURXEY. Q. What are you - A. A bootmaker. I do not know Ings - I may have seen him but not to know him.
Q. How long have you known him - A. Why, I cannot say. I do not suppose I have been in his company above two or three times. The first place I saw him to speak to him was at a pamphlet shop at the corner of the court near where I live.
Q. Is that where the Black Dwarf and Medusa are sold
<persName id="t18200416-1-person145">A. </persName> - Yes. It is kept by Watling I believe. I cannot state where else I have seen him, I am sure I cannot.
Q. I will help your memory. Do you know the Scotch arms - A. Yes, it is in Round-court, Strand, I never saw him there. I have been there three times - it was before Christmas.
Q. Who was in the chair the first night - A. There was no chair in the room.
Q. There might be a chairman without that - A. But there was not, it was in the tap-room.
Q. Do you know the Black Dog, in Gray's Inn-lane - A. I have been to a public-house, which I have since heard was the Black Dog; there was no chair there - it was on a Sunday night; there were seven persons there.
Q. Tell me the names of some of them - A. I was invited there by one Bryant, who was going to the Cape of Good Hope. The parties were all strangers to me except Thistlewood. Brunt was not there while I was in the room. I do not think I saw Palin there.
Q. Did you attend the meeting at Smithfield in December last - A. Yes, I attended all the Smithfield meetings.
Q. Who carried the black flag - A. I cannot say.
Q. What flag did you carry - A. I carried one at the last meeting. I have carried two flags.
Q. What flags - A. Let me see. There was inscribed on it,
"The Manchester Massacre."
Q. Did you carry the flag,
"Let us die like freemen, and not like slaves" - A. No, I never saw such a flag.
Q. Did you carry a flag at Hunt's triumphal entry - A. Yes,
"The Manchester Massacre and Trial by Jury." I have not much knowledge of Tidd, except when he comes to our meetings on trade affairs.
Q. Do you know Wilson - A. Yes, and Harrison, and Bradburn, and Cooper; I do not know Strange or Gilchrist.
Q. How long have you known Thistlewood - A. Ever since Mr. Hunt's triumphal entry.
Q. I dare say you was extreemly shocked at the proposition for assasinating the ministers - A. I was so shocked that I would not go. I did not lay information at Bow-street.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did Edwards or Adams know of your acquaintance with the prisoners - A. I cannot say how they came to know it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person146"> MARY PARKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person146" type="surname" value="PARKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person146" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person146" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am daughter to the prisoner Tidd. Edwards brought some of the grenades to our house.
Q. Did he bring them the morning they were seized - A. No, before. They were taken and returned. Edwards took some of the grenades and powder away on the morning of the 23 - they were not brought back. There was one very large one which Adams brought - it. was not brought back again.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. How long had the box been there - A. It might have been there three or four days - it was never taken away. The grenades might have been there a fortnight.
MR. CURWOOD. Q. Was the box corded - A. Yes, it was never uncorded while it was there to my knowledge.
MR. ADOLPHUS then addressed the Jury on behalf of the prisoner, who made the following,
Defence. My Lords and Gentlemen of the Jury, I am a man of no education and very humble abilities, if you will hear me with patience I will detail to you the particulars. I came to London from Portsea in May 1819 with my wife and family; I had no probability of supporting them there; I thought I should get employ in London, but could not, knowing nobody here - I tried every means I could. I had brought a few pounds with me, which I found were going very fast, and did not know how to act. I have been in business, and lost a considerable deal of money, but not through drinking or gambling. I sent my wife back to Portsea, and I myself set up a butcher's shop in Baker's-row; I stopped in it from Midsummer to Michaelmas, and the summer being hot it was very much against me, and I lost a considerable deal of money. I then took a house in Old Montague-street, and turned it into a coffee-shop, but it did not turn out to my expectations. A man frequently came to take a cup of coffee who used to enter into conversation about Government and the Manchester massacre, I took very little notice of him suspecting him to be an officer, and I had nothing to do with politics. After I had left the coffee-shop I was in Smithfield looking for work, and met this man. He said I ought to stand treat as he had often been to my house; I said it was not in my power as I had no money, and if I did not get work I must sell my few things. He asked me what I had to sell? I said a sofa bedstead, and various other articles. He asked me what it was stuffed with? saying he should like to buy it. He went to my lodgings, looked at it, and said it did not suit him - this was early in January. In a few days I met him in Fleet-market; he said he had a friend who would give me more for the bedstead than anybody else, and took me to his friend near my lodgings, but he would not
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160036"/>buy it, so we went back to Fleet-market, and he told me there was something to be done, and asked me if I would make one? I said I did not know what was to be done. He said no good man wanted to know what was to be done till it was begun, he then took me to the White Hart, and introduced me to my fellow prisoners, He told me that his name was Williams, but I never knew the particulars of what they were going to do, because they did not wish to trust me as a stranger, and I meerly went there for food. On that very day I carried a sword to be ground for him, and left it in my own name. If I thought any thing had been going on do you suppose, Gentlemen, that I should have left a sword in my own name. Is it reasonable! I had no idea at the time that any thing was going on. I met him frequently afterwards, and kept him company, as I got victuals and drink in the room, and there was a fire. On the 23d he came to me at my lodgings in Primrose-street, but did not find me there. I met him in Bishopsgate-street that morning. He said,
"Something is going to be done, if you come up the alley opposite Mrs. Carlisle's, about six o'clock, I shall be there." I went to the room in the course of the day, and got some bread and cheese, and about six o'clock I went to the alley where he was waiting for me - I understood that he lived at a side door in the alley. He gave me a couple of bags, a belt, and a knife-case, and asked me to come to the room in Fox-court, which has been mentioned, and he and I went away together. He told me the bags were to put some gin in that had been got by the sly, which was the reason I put them under my coat that the people might not stop me, and discover where I got the gin. I went up by St. Giles's Church where we were to get the gin, but he said it was not there, We went up Oxford-street, and about half way up he turned round, and told me to wait there for him. I waited for him near an hour, he then came back, and took me to John-street, to the stable where the arms were; he said he was going to call on a friend, and told me to stop there a moment. When I came under the archway I saw Davidson, who took me into the stable, and he went up the ladder. I heard great confusion in the loft and kept down. I declare positively that I was never up in the loft. I waited below about five minutes when the officers came in - Mr. Ruthven and somebody came in, and two went up to the loft, a third collared me, said
"You are my prisoner," and began beating me about with his staff till my head was swelled dreadfully. I heard the report of a pistol, upon which he let me go, ran out, and I followed him out into the street - an officer followed me, and I ran off. I met a man in the street with a stick, who hit me violently on the head, but I got from him, ran round another way, and the watchman stopped me - I was taken to the watch-house. This is all I know of the meeting, but the man who got me there has been at all the meetings, and planned everything that has been done. He has not been called, and I am sold like a a bullock in Smithfield, depend upon it. The Attorney General knows the same, and knew all these plans for two months before. I heard a gentleman say, when I was before Lord Sidmouth, that his Lordship knew of this four or five weeks ago. I consider myself murdered if this man is not brought forward, but he is put on one side. I am ready and willing to die with him if he will die with me, for he was guilty of every thing, and the inventor of the plot, if it be a plot. I do not value my life if I could get a living for my family, for I have a wife and four children. I was drawn into it. I cannot describe my feelings to you for my wife and family, and I hope before you return your verdict you will have this man brought forward, or I shall consider myself a murdered man. Edwards is the man who came to my house - he came to get acquainted with me; I never was at any meeting. I am accused of being at a public-house, I never was at any except the house in Brooks-market. I attended no meeting since Christmas. I never was at any of the Radical meetings in London. I hope you will weigh it well in your minds before you return your verdict. The evidence planned all this to get out of the halter themselves; they would hang their God I believe - Adams would; but sooner than I would be the instigation of hanging a man I would die if I had five hundred lives.
The Jury retired at twenty minutes past eight o'clock, and at a quarter before nine returned and found the prisoner

<rs id="t18200416-1-verdict4" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t18200416-1-verdict4" type="verdictCategory" value="guilty"/> GUILTY </rs>. -
<rs id="t18200416-1-punish5" type="punishmentDescription">
<interp inst="t18200416-1-punish5" type="punishmentCategory" value="death"/>
<join result="defendantPunishment" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-defend6 t18200416-1-punish5"/>
<join result="defendantPunishment" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-defend93 t18200416-1-punish5"/> DEATH </rs>.
On the First and Third Counts.
Before Lord Chief Justice Dallas, Lord
<persName id="t18200416-1-person147" type="judiciaryName"> Chief Baron Richards
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person147" type="surname" value="Baron Richards"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person147" type="given" value="Chief"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person147" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , Mr. Justice Richardson, and Mr. Common Sergeant.
TRIAL OF
<persName id="t18200416-1-defend149" type="defendantName"> JOHN THOMAS BRUNT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend149" type="surname" value="BRUNT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend149" type="given" value="JOHN THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend149" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> .
The following Jury were Sworn,

<persName id="t18200416-1-person150" type="jurorName"> Alexander Barclay
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person150" type="surname" value="Barclay"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person150" type="given" value="Alexander"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person150" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Teddington, gentleman and grocer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person151" type="jurorName"> Thomas Goodchild
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person151" type="surname" value="Goodchild"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person151" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person151" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , North End, Hendon, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person152" type="jurorName"> Thomas Suffield Aldersey
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person152" type="surname" value="Suffield Aldersey"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person152" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person152" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Lisson-grove, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person153" type="jurorName"> James Herbert
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person153" type="surname" value="Herbert"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person153" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person153" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Isleworth, carpenter.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person154" type="jurorName"> John Shooter
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person154" type="surname" value="Shooter"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person154" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person154" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , North End, Hendon, gentleman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person155" type="jurorName"> John Wilmot
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person155" type="surname" value="Wilmot"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person155" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person155" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , of Western-road, Islewort, milkman and gardener.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person156" type="jurorName"> John Edward Shepherd
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person156" type="surname" value="Edward Shepherd"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person156" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person156" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Eden-grove, Holloway, gentleman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person157" type="jurorName"> John Fowler
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person157" type="surname" value="Fowler"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person157" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person157" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , St. John-Street, iron-plate-worker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person158" type="jurorName"> William Gibbs Roberts
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person158" type="surname" value="Gibbs Roberts"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person158" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person158" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Rope-maker's Fields, Limehouse, cooper.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person159" type="jurorName"> John Dickenson
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person159" type="surname" value="Dickenson"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person159" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person159" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , of Colt-street, Limehouse, builder.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person160" type="jurorName"> John Smith
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person160" type="surname" value="Smith"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person160" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person160" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , of John-street, Oxford-street, undertaker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person161" type="jurorName"> John Woodward
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person161" type="surname" value="Woodward"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person161" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person161" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Upper-street, Islington, gentleman.
The prisoner was given in charge of the Jury, and the following evidence called: -

<persName id="t18200416-1-person162"> ROBERT ADAMS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person162" type="surname" value="ADAMS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person162" type="given" value="ROBERT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person162" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am now in custody. Before I was apprehended I lived at No. 4, Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market. I was a shoemaker. I was in the Royal Horse Guards eighteen years ago. I know the prisoner, Brunt; I first became acquainted with him at Cambray, in France, in 1815, he then went by the name of
<persName id="t18200416-1-person163"> Thomas Morton
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person163" type="surname" value="Morton"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person163" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person163" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> ; the British army were then quartered there - I followed my trade among them.
Q. Do you remember calling on Brunt early in the present year - A. Yes, at his lodgings in Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane; he is a boot-closer. He introduced me to Thistlewood on Wednesday, the 12th of January, at Thistlewood's lodgings, in Stanhope-street, Clare-market - Brunt and Ings went there with me. Brunt said,
"Here is the man I was speaking to you about." Thistlewood said,
"You belonged to the Life Guards formerly, did you not?" I said I did not, I belonged to the Oxford Blues.
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160037"/>He said,
"No doubt you are a good soldier." I said I once was. He said,
"You can use a sword well?" I said I could sufficient to defend myself, but not so well as I originally could, as I had not used any arms for a long while. On this he turned the discourse to the shopkeepers of London, and said they were a set of Aristocrats altogether, all acting under one system of government, and he should glory to see the day when they should have all their shops shut up and well plundered. He next turned his discourse on Mr. Hunt, saying Hunt was no friend of the people, and he had no doubt if he could enter Whitehall and look at the books, but he should find his name there as a spy for Government - that Cobbett, with all his writings, was no friend to the people, and he had very little doubt but he was a spy the same as Hunt. Brunt said he had a couple of men to call on towards Carnaby-market, and asked Thistlewood to walk with him to see the men, but he did not go. A few words dropped from Brunt to Thistlewood about attending a raffle for a brass-barrelled blunderbuss - I do not recollect that Thistlewood said he should go. Brunt and Ings came away, leaving Thistlewood there.
Q. I believe sometime after this you was imprisoned for debt in Whitecross-street prison - A. Yes. I came out of prison on Sunday, the 30th of January, and saw the prisoner on Monday (the next day). I first saw him at Hobbs's, the White Hart - I saw him in the evening in the room where he was taken, on the same floor on which he lived - I had heard him say that he took that room for Ings. I attended several meetings in that room.
Q. Up to what time did you attend these meetings - A. Up to the 23d of February, from the time I came out of prison, they were held twice a day.
Q. Who usually attended - A. Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Hall, Harrison, (who had been in the Life Guards,) Davidson, Edwards, Wilson, and Tidd, who lived in the next house to me in Hole in the Wall-passage, he is a shoemaker. I saw Palin there on Sunday, the 20th of February, but not before. I saw Potter there before that. Hall is a tailor.
Q. After you came out of prison what passed at these meetings - A. I called on the Monday evening; several of them were there. Nothing particular passed then. On the Wednesday following I attended a meeting in the back room - Thistlewood, Brunt, Davidson, Harrison, and Edwards were there. I saw a number of pike-staves there. There was no furniture, except a stove, which was fixed, the chairs were brought from Brunt's room. The staves were rough and quite green, as if they had just come from the country. I saw Bradburn, who was there, cut the ends of the staves off, and putting on the ferrels - he cut off one end of each pike-stave - there were a dozen of them. It was considered that the ferrels were too small for boring the holes, and the pike-staves would not be strong enough to support them. They were cut off again, and larger pike-staves put on. Bradburn had instructions to buy the ferrels, but did not; Brunt brought them afterwards and put them on - they were larger and deeper.
Q. Do you recollect being there a short time before the funeral of the King - A. Yes. I found Thistlewood, Harrison, Davidson, and Wilson there. Harrison told Thistlewood that he had seen one of the Life Guards, who told him all the Life Guards that could be mounted were to attend the funeral, as well as all the Foot Guards and police officers that could be spared - Harrison had been in the Life Guards. He said that after the Life Guards had left, it occurred to his mind that it would be a favourable opportunity to collect what men they could besides themselves, and kick up a row in London, as he thought all the officers, soldiers, and what not, would be out of London, and that there would be none left in London to protect it. On his coming into the room he communicated his thoughts to Thistlewood, and it meeting with his ideas, he proposed that the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, and the six pieces in the Artillery Ground should be taken the same night, and after this was done they thought it highly necessary to send a party to Hyde Park, to prevent any orderly man being sent from London to Windsor, to communicate what was going on in London. At the same time the telegraph over the water was to be taken, to prevent any intelligence being sent to Woolwich as to what was going on - he thought at the same time it would be necessary to cut entrenchments across the road, to prevent any cannon being brought from Woolwich to London.
Q. Who said all this, Thistlewood - A. He said that the soldiers would be so knocked up, and have to come so far, that they would not be able to do any thing in protecting the country. Here Thistlewood, for the first time, (which I can vouch for,) said there must be an offer made to the soldiers, in order to bring them over. If the soldiers refused to accede, and determined to act against them, Harrison proposed they should enter the houses, and fling hand grenades into the streets among the soldiers, to destroy them as fast as possible. Thistlewood proposed that men should be sent to the different sea-ports, such as Dover, Brighton, Margate, and different places, with an express order that nobody should leave the country without an order from the Provisional Government, or their towns should be blown down over their heads. He mentioned particularly, that as soon as they could collect force enough (which he had no doubt they should) to send a large force down to Brighton, in case the new King should be there after the riot was kicked up, which he did not suspect he would, on account of his indisposition.
Q. What was to be done at Brighton - A. It was to be plundered; and then Thistlewood said, as to the King being crowned that was all nonsense, as he did not intend that should be. After that Ings and Brunt came into the room, Thistlewood told them the conversation that had passed. Brunt and Ings both declared together that nothing short of the assassination of ministers would satisfy them.
Q. Had Brunt before told you of any plan to assassinate the ministers - A. Yes, he told me of it in his own room on the 2d of January, before he introduced me to Thistlewood. He said it was to be done the first time they met together at a cabinet dinner.
Q. Did anything farther pass on their declaring that nothing short of the assassination of his Majesty's ministers would satisfy them - A. That was the night when Ings said he had been to the Park with the sole view to assassinate the Prince Regent, when he went to open Parliament.
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160038"/>He produced a pistol from his pocket, held it out, and said,
"D - n my mortal eyes! that is the pistol I took."
Q. Do you recollect a meeting that took place on Saturday, the 19th of February - A. Perfectly well. I saw Thistlewood, Brunt, Harrison, Wilson, and Ings there - it was between eleven and twelve o'clock in the morning. I cannot say whether Davidson was there. On my going into the room they sat with their heads together, as if they were in consultation about something; I soon found out what it was. They got up all of a sudden, and Thistlewood said,
"Well, it is agreed, that if nothing transpires between this and Wednesday night, we intend to go to work, as we are all so poor we cannot wait longer." He proposed directly that a committee should be appointed to meet on the following morning (Sunday,) at nine o'clock, to draw up a plan to act upon - this was agreed to, and he gave orders to Brunt to tell all the men that came that it was necessary to come armed. Brunt said,
"It is a parcel of nonsense for any officers to come here, and d - n it if they do they will be murdered, and I will take good care to secure them afterwards that they shall never be found out.
Prisoner. Can that man look me in the face, and state that with a clear conscience - A. I can.
MR. GURNEY. Q. Look at the prisoner and the Jury, and say if what you have said is true - A. It is a fact. I had left them in the room. I had seen a sword and hand-grenades in the room previous to this, some of which were made in the room, and I have seen pistols pulled from their different pockets - they were moved from there to Tidd's lodgings, which was the depot; Thistlewood wished them to be removed there, that they might be safe, that if any one should come into that room they should have no suspicion what they were there for. As Brunt is the man that has denied what I have said, he is the man that carried the principal part of the hand-grenades there. I followed him myself into Tidd's room, saw them with my own eyes lying on the floor, and saw Tidd's daughter put them into the box under the window.
Q. Did the meeting take place on Sunday - A. Yes, Thistlewood, Ings, Hall, Brunt, Harrison, Davidson, Edwards, Bradburn, and Cook were there, three others came afterwards, there were twelve in all. Thistlewood looking round, and seeing there were twelve in the room, said,
"Well, gentlemen, we may as well proceed to business, here is enough to form a committee." Tidd was proposed to take the chair.
Q. Was he there when you first went in - A. Yes; I might not have mentioned him, but I recollect he was present; he took the chair, and order being called for - Thistlewood stood on the right of Tidd, he said,
"Well, gentlemen, as we are all met here (turning to the door), there is no occasion to mention names, you all know what you have met here for, and as there is no likelihood of their meeting together, we are come to the determination, if nothing occurs between this and Wednesday night, to take them separately." He then proposed that at the same time that the West End job (as he called the assassination), was done, the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, and the six pieces in the Artillery Ground should be taken, and that Palin should take the command of another party, in order to set fire to the different buildings. Cook was appointed to head the party who were to take the cannon from the Artillery Ground - he was at the meeting. Thistlewood said there would be sufficient time between this and then to fix the time, and he thought forty men would be enough for the West End job, but more if they could get them; and as to the farther particulars of the plan it would do at another time, as Brunt was coming forward with a motion respecting the assassination, how it was to be done. Brunt came forward, but was prevented by Thistlewood's saying his motion should be put from the chair, and if any person should wish to say anything upon it he should speak. The motion was put and agreed to by all in the room. Brunt came forward and proposed, that as there was no prospect of their taking them altogether, that they should be taken separately, and it was to be done in this manner: - As many men as could be collected were to be divided into as many parties as there were persons that they would assassinate. When these men were so lotted, he proposed that a man should be drawn from each lot for the purpose of assassinating whoever they might be appointed to, and if the man did not execute his duty from any appearance of cowardice, he should be run through on the spot. Upon this I got up, and asked him if he thought it not possible for a man to attempt to do a thing like this and fail, and did he mean that man to be run through on the spot? He said Certainly not, unless there was a proof that that man was a coward - I then sat down. The motion was put from the chair, and carried in the same way as the other. Directly after, Palin, Potter, and Strange came in, and what had passed was communicated to them; after Palin had consented to the plan he got up, and addressed himself to the chairman, saying,
"Agreeing as I do with what has been said, I wish to know how the thing is to be done, as you talk of so many objects at one time. If they can all be carried I think it would be a great acquisition to what we have in view, but this is what I want to know. You talk of forty or fifty men for the West End job; the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane to be taken, and the six in the Artillery Ground; and you propose to me and my men to set fire to the different buildings - you ought to know better than myself what men you can command. I for my own part can give no satisfaction as to what men I can bring forward, unless I am entrusted by this committee to state to them what has passed in this room this morning. If I can tell the men what they are going about and when they will be wanted I shall know better how to act." It was agreed by Thistlewood, Brunt, and Tidd that if he thought he had men he could have confidence in, they did not see where the harm could be in making the communication. On this Palin sat down satisfied - nothing more particular passed while he was in the chair. After the chair was left Thistlewood turned round and said,
"Oh Brunt! now Palin is here you can take him to that place just by, and let him see whether that thing is practicable or not." Brunt and Palin went out together to examine the place whether Palin thought it was practicable to do it. They returned in about ten minutes, and Palin gave in word that it was a very easy job, and would make a good fire - it was Furnival's Inn. I had heard Brunt tell Thistlewood before that, that he
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160039"/>and Tidd had found that place out to set fire to - the building was then going on, I believe the back is not yet finished; Fox-court is very near the back. Some of them began to separate, saying they had men to call on to tell them when they would be wanted. Thistlewood said,
"Brunt, I think you had better, between this and the time of going to work, collect together what men you can, and give them a treat." Thistlewood said he did not know how it was to be done for they were all so poor. Brunt said,
"D - n my eyes! I have a 1 l. note which I have saved from work, and reserved for the purpose of treating my men, and I will do it." Thistlewood said he did not know where they could take them to, and said he supposed they could have the room up stairs at Hobb's, (which is the White Hart), where some meetings had been held before they had the room at Brunt's. Brunt said he did not like to go there from what had dropped from my mouth as to the communications I had made, then said,
"Never mind, as time gets so near I don't see what we have to fear. If any officers come into the room I will take care of them" - we separated shortly after. Another meeting was held on Monday and on Tuesday morning.
Q. What time was that - A. About ten o'clock. The prisoner was there, and Thistlewood, Ings, Hall, Wilson, Harrison, Edwards, Bradburn, Palin, Potter, and myself - after they had met Edwards came in, and communicated to Thistlewood that there was an account of a cabinet dinner in the paper to be on Wednesday night (the next night), at Lord Harrowby's, in Grosvenor-square. Thistlewood said he had seen a paper that morning, and saw no account of it, but in order to satisfy the meeting he proposed that the paper should be fetched. Hall fetched it - it was the New Times, and it turned out as Edwards had said. It was then proposed by Thistlewood that a committee should sit directly to alter the plan of the assassination which was proposed on Sunday; Harrison and Davidson came into the room at this interval; Davidson brought in a bag of musquet balls, and
<persName id="t18200416-1-person164">Harrison</persName> some powder. While the paper was sent for, Ings pulled out three daggers, and said he had prepared them for the sole purpose of assassinating the ministers by themselves, and taking it in his hand he said how he intended to do it (using a very coarse expression). Thistlewood proposed me to take the chair.
Q. Before you took the chair do you remember Brunt saying any thing after the paper was brought - A. Yes. On the news being communicated he said,
"D - n my eyes! now I believe there is a God, in calling these thieves together; it has often been my prayer that they might all meet together, and now God has answered my prayer."
Q. Then Thistlewood proposed a committee, and that you should take the chair - A. Yes, I did, and Thistlewood came forward to propose a plan. I called to order, and said,
"Gentlemen, before you proceed any farther I hope you have given a due consideration to what fell from my mouth on Saturday morning" - I had informed them that Hobbs at the White Hart had told me that two officers had been there, saying there was something in hand more than there ought to be, and that they had information of it at Bow-street and Lord Sidmouth's office. Palin said he wanted some explanation of it. On that Brunt got up, said they should have an explanation, and communicated to them nearly the same as I had. After that he proposed that in order to do away with this, there should be a watch set on Lord Harrowby's house; two men were to go on the watch at six o'clock, and stop till nine, then to be relieved by two others who were to stop till twelve; the watch was to commence again next morning at four o'clock, and to continue till the evening when they intended to go to work. The watch was to see who entered Lord Harrowby's house, and if any soldier or police officer entered they were to communicate it to the committee, and if no one was seen to go in it was determined the work should be done to-morrow night. On this being done Brunt picked out the men for the purpose, but I cannot state who they were. Davidson and another were the first to watch, and Brunt and Tidd were to relieve them from nine to twelve o'clock. On this Thistlewood came forward, and said if there was proof that no soldiers or officers entered the house, he proposed a plan to take them altogether. He proposed that he himself should enter Lord Harrowby's door with a note in his hand to deliver to the servant, saying he must have an answer to it; the others were to rush in directly afterwards, and seize the servants, present a pistol at them, and threaten them with instant death if they made any resistance. Two were to go and take command of the stairs leading to the upper part of the house, and two those leading to the lower part; each were to have hand-grenades, pistols, and cutlasses, and if the servants attempted to escape the hand-grenade was to be thrown in among them - one with a blunderbuss, and another with a grenade were to be placed at the area. After they had secured the servants, Ings proposed himself to enter the room first, to be followed by two swordsmen, I was one and
<persName id="t18200416-1-person165">Harrison</persName> another. Ings said that on going into the room he should say,
"Well my Lords! I have as good men here as the Manchester Yeomanry, enter citizens and do your duty!" On this they were to enter the room, Ings having his large knife, and swearing he would cut their heads off as fast as he came to them.
Q. Did he mention the heads of any persons in particular - A. The heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth he was determined to bring away in two bags that he had provided for the purpose, and one of Lord Castlereagh's hands, which he intended to cure (preserve), as it would be thought a great deal of at a future day. I wish to state one circumstance for fear it should slip my memory. Ings said that when he had got the heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth he would exhibit them on a pole about the streets. Thistlewood improved this plan; he thought it would be better to put them on a pike, and place them behind the cannon, and carry them about the streets, as they would terrify the people. Bradburn said after they had been exhibited he would enclose Lord Castlereagh's in a box, and send it to Ireland.
Q. After they had done at Lord Harrowby's what was to be done - A. Harrison was to go to the barracks in King-street, and set fire to the straw with a ball which was prepared for the purpose - Wilson was to go with him; from there they were to proceed to Gray's Inn-lane to the
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160040"/>City Light Horse barracks, and take the two pieces of cannon there - they were to meet a party there; they were then to proceed to the Artillery Ground, unless any thing occurred to the contrary, meet Cook there, and take the six pieces of cannon that were there, load them and bring them into the street, and if Cook found himself strong enough, by people joining them, he was to proceed to the Mansion House, and take it as the seat of the Provisional Government. The cannon were to be arranged three on each side, and if they refused to give it up, they were to fire into it on each side. The Bank was to be attacked and taken if possible, and plundered, but Thistlewood said the books were not to be destroyed that they might be able to see some of the proceedings of Government that they were not in possession of. Thistlewood and Cook agreed among themselves that if Cook found himself able to go to the Mansion House, he was to send an orderly man to St. Sepulchre's church, to wait the arrival of an orderly man from Thistlewood at the west end of the town, and they were to return to their separate parties, to give instructions to each other how they were situated.
Q. Do you remember Harrison saying any thing about a countersign - A. He proposed that there should be a countersign agreed on for the men who were to go round to the different persons to communicate to them that they would be wanted on Wednesday night. The party were to go up to a man who was to be stationed at the end of Oxford-street, and say B.U.T.; he was to be considered one of the party, and the man was to answer T.O.N., and inform them where the place of meeting was, (which Harrison was to procure), and they were to be conducted to that place.
Q. Did you go to Fox-court again in the afternoon of that day - A. I did; and on going up stairs I perceived a strange smell, and on going into the room I saw Ings, Hall and, Edwards - Edwards was making fusees for the hand-grenades; Ings was dipping the stuff for the fire-balls into a pot of ingredients for that purpose; and Hall was laying a paper on the floor to receive the balls after they were dipped into the pot. I left the room, and called again in the evening, I found Thistlewood there and two strange men whom I had not seen before. In the course of the evening they were pretty well all there.
Q. Davidson was to go on the watch at six - A. Yes; and Brunt, and Tidd, started for the watch at nine. They called at a house where Tidd expected to meet a man, and finding him there, he went with Brunt, and Tidd staid there. When I got to Grosvenor-square, I found Davidson on the watch, and relieved him. Brunt and I went into a public-house at the corner of a mews directly at the back of Lord Harrowby's, and staid there from about a quarter-past nine o'clock till about eleven. Brunt played at dominos with a young man who was there - about eleven o'clock we returned to watch at the square, and left at twelve. I had gone out of the house twice to watch.
Q. Now on Wednesday did you go to Fox-court - A. I did about two o'clock, and went into Brunt's room, and found him there; Strange came in first, and two or three more whom I do not know. I saw pistols in the room; they began to put flints into them, and on the strange men coming in Brunt proposed to go into the other room, which they all did. I saw pistols, cutlasses, and a blunderbuss there. Thistlewood came in just after; he looked round and said
"Now, my lads, this looks something like, and looks as if something was going to be done." - He clapped his hand on my shoulder, and said,
"How do you do, Mr. Adams?" I said I was not very well, and was very low in spirits. He said
"What is the matter, you are not low in consequence of what you are going to do?" I said I wanted refreshment. By order of Thistlewood Brunt sent out for some gin and beer - Ings, Hall, and other strangers came in soon after. Thistlewood said he wanted some paper such as newspapers were printed on, to draw up some large posting bills, but he did not know the name of it. I proposed cartridge paper, and he gave Brunt money to fetch it. Brunt sent out for it, and it was brought. Thistlewood sat down to write, after a table and chair was brought from Brunt's room. He wrote three bills and read them as follows:
"Your tyrants are destroyed, the friends of liberty are called upon as the Provisional Government are now sitting. -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person166"> James Ings
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person166" type="surname" value="Ings"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person166" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person166" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Secretary, 23d February, 1820." They were written in large letters. In writing the third bill he said he was tired, and appeared rather agitated; they were to be stuck up by the buildings that were to be set fire to, to let the people know what was to be done. Thistlewood proposed that Hall should take the pen, he refused, another man took it; he wrote something, which Thistlewood dictated, but it was not finished.
Q. Before that did Ings do any thing - A. He first put a black belt round his loins to contain a brace of pistols, then hung one on his shoulder for a cutlass; he put a bag across each shoulder like a soldier's haversack. On viewing himself he perceived he had not got his steel, and said he thought himself not complete; he produced a large knife with a very broad blade, the handle had waxend bound round, which he said was to keep his hand from slipping; but he had prepared the knife for the sole purpose of cutting off the heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth.
Q. Did the others in the room do any thing with the weapons that were there - A. They all took an active part in preparing themselves with cutlasses, pistols, and different things. Thistlewood and Brunt left the room about five o'clock. Palin came in and said he hoped all present knew what they had met there for; he hoped they had considered what they were going to do, and wished them to inform themselves whether the assassination of ministers was likely to benefit the country - and if they thought so, and that the people would come over to them in consequence of it, they ought to come to a determination to stick one to another, and if any one was in danger to assist him. He said if any flinched that man ought to be run through. He was here interrupted by a tall man in the room, who said
"I can see pretty well the meaning of your speech, but you speak as if all in the room knew what you were going to do; that is what I and some others want to know." I am not afraid of myself, nor ought any man to be afraid of his life who turns out in a thing like this. Palin was going to speak but Brunt returned to the room, and seeing an alteration in the countenances of the men wished to know the cause - he asked what was the matter? The tall man said that himself and others wanted to know further what they were going to do. Brunt said
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160041"/>this is is not the time for you to know, if you will go with me to a room in the Edgware-road there you shall know; and I will take care that all who go with me shall have something to drink to put them in spirits. The tall man said he hoped no man going on such business as this would get drunk; as by so doing he placed himself in the hands of the enemies.
Q. Was there any cupboard in the room - A. There was: I have seen a sword in it, and tallow, and pitch, and oakum, and materials for the fire-balls; the hand-grenades were kept there till they were removed.
Q. Who did you go away with - A. I went down stairs by myself, and was followed by some strange man. I took a blunderbuss, and a broom stick which had been prepared for a bayonet, this was Brunt's. I met Thistlewood and Brunt in Edgware-road, they took me to the stable in Cato-street. I found Davidson there sitting down, and Wilson standing up. I went up to the loft and found several men there. The stable is the first building in Cato-street, which is a little street turning out of John-street, under an archway; at the further end of the stable is a ladder which leads to the loft, and in the loft was a carpenter's bench, with pistols and cutlasses on it. There was one candle on the bench - I laid my blunderbuss on it. On Thistlewood looking round he said there was another room, and one below. Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Hall, Bradburn, Davidson, Wilson, Harrison, Strange, Cooper, Tidd, and others were there. Tidd was not there at first - they were all arming themselves. Thistlewood went down stairs, and I went after that, and found in the stable Thistlewood, Brunt, Davidson, Harrison, and Wilson - I am not certain of Ings. When they saw me coming down the ladder they turned round, and said what good news they had got, there were six or seven carriages arrived already at Lord Harrowby's; and Brunt said
"What a rare hawl we shall have to-night!" He proposed that a double sentry should be put at the stable-door, and nobody admitted up unless he gave the countersign. He went up to the loft, and Brunt perceiving that some fear was expressed at Tidd's not coming, he said
"There is no occasion for any fear, and I will venture my life that Tidd will come." Ings said he would cut his throat or hang himself if they thought of dropping the concern now. Thistlewood said he hoped they would not drop it, for if they did it would turn out another Despard job. Soon after I found Tidd in the room, but I did not see him enter the room. Thistlewood had some conversation with him, he went to the table and said,
"Suppose Lord Harrowby has eighteen servants, what is that, they will not be prepared and we are. There are eighteen in the room and two below stairs, which is twenty in all." He proposed fourteen men should be picked out of the twenty to go into the room. Thistlewood and Brunt began to pick them out. On this being done, Brunt introduced the gin-bottle, offered me a glass, and called me among the fourteen. Some time before that Brunt finding the men rather apprehensive that they had not strength enough, he said
"We have got things here that will blow the house down over their heads." So bent am I on doing the job that if there are only eight or nine men I am determined to go and do it; even if there were only five or six to go I will be one; and if I find myself in danger I will set fire to the things and blow the house down over their heads." After the men were picked out and the gin gone round, I heard a noise below and some one at the bottom of the ladder cried out Halloo! shew a light. Thistlewood took a light from the bench, and looked down to see who they were; turned himself round, set the candle down, and seemed rather confused. The officers ascended the ladder and came to the loft. To the best of my recollection the first words were
"Here is a pretty nest of you; gentlemen we have got a warrant to apprehend you all, and as such hope you will go peaceably." Another officer, who was on the ladder behind the two which were on the top cried
"Let me come up." He came forward. Those who were on one side of the loft sidled into a little room. On the officers coming into the loft, the others in the room rushed towards the doorway. Thistlewood was in the room. I saw an arm rush from the crowd; and at that moment I saw a pistol fired off - the candle went out directly the pistol was fired. There was a great deal of confusion. I went down the ladder into the stable and got away; I went home to my lodging directly. I never left it until I was apprehended on Friday morning, nor ever laid my hand on the latch of the door.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. I think you said the last time you came here, that you went home and repented of your iniquities - A. I did: and before that my mind was convinced I was wrong; and after the murder the conviction was stronger.
Q. You once did not believe in Christianity -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person167">A. Till I</persName> received that cursed publication from Tidd I was as particular as most people about religion. That book and the principles the prisoner endeavoured to instil into my mind made me a Deist. His intent was to knock down the pillars of Christianity.
Q. And you helped him to knock down the pillars of Christianity - A. To my shame I did. I am between forty-six and forty-seven years of age. I feel a satisfaction at making an atonement to my Maker.
Q. Did you feel a satisfaction at murdering sixteen individuals in cold blood - A. I can appeal to God that my mind was always against it - I thought it inconsistent to reason altogether. I had a doubt in my mind whether Brunt was as he ought to be, for I was once going with Thistlewood and him to Carnaby-market, and he told me that he met a man who shook hands with him, and filled his hand with seven 1 l. notes. Brunt told me on the 2d of February, in the street, of the design to murder the ministers. I went once with three others with the sole intent to put a stop to it - Palin was one. I never saw him till the Monday.
Q. Edwards was there very regular and constant - A. Yes. I saw him pull two pistols out of his pocket, and I saw him manufacturing the grenades. There was no regular committee on Sunday morning. We went by no particular name.
Q. Why not put a stop to it by making communications to proper persons - A. I did not wish to put them to any danger.
MR. GURNEY. Q. What perverted your mind - A. Paine's Age of Reason, and the publications of Carlisle.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person168"> ELEANOR WALKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person168" type="surname" value="WALKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person168" type="given" value="ELEANOR"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person168" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am niece and servant at No. 4, Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane; the prisoner lodged there
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160042"/>twelve months, in the two front rooms on the second floor. He introduced Ings to take the back room on the same floor, Ings said he might bring his goods in in a week or better, but never did. The lodgers enter in at the side door, and go up and down without us knowing it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person169"> MARY ROGERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person169" type="surname" value="ROGERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person169" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person169" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I live in Fox-court. I remember a man taking the back room at 3 s. per week, and afterwards found his name to be Ings. He paid for four or five weeks, and left one unpaid. One night when I was putting the children to bed I saw three men go up, one of them was a a black man. Brunt said he knew nothing of Ings only from seeing him at a public-house, and hearing him enquire for a lodging. I understood him to be a butcher - he never slept there.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person170"> JOSEPH HALE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person170" type="surname" value="HALE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person170" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person170" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am apprentice to Brunt, and lived with him in Fox-court; he lived in one room, and the other was the workshop. Ings came and took the back room; Brunt looked at it, told him it would do, and to go down and give 1 s. I knew Ings for a fortnight before that. I have seen him with Thistlewood in Brunt's room. On the evening the room was taken Ings came and asked Mrs. Brunt for the key of the back room, which she gave to him, and he went in with Hall, who was a tailor. In the course of the evening I heard persons go up stairs, and into the room. The meetings were held there from this time till my master was apprehended.
Q. Can you name some of the persons who visited there - A. Thistlewood, Ings, Tidd, Hall, Davidson, Brunt, Bradburn, Strange, Edwards, Potter, and Adams. There were others at different times - my master was generally with them. Once when I passed, the room door was open, and I saw about twenty long poles like the branches of trees, rough cut, and with the bark on them - the meetings were mostly in the evening. I have heard hammering and sawing going on in the room more than once. They called Thistlewood T., and sometimes Arthur.
Q. On the Sunday morning before your master was taken up was there a meeting - A. Yes, it was rather larger than usual; all those I have named were there. They went away one or two at a time - my master was with them; I saw Strange in my master's room after the meeting was over. There was another meeting on Monday and Tuesday.
Q. In the afternoon of Wednesday was there another - A. There were several people up there; some of them came into the front room; I remember Thistlewood and Ings coming in. Strange was there about two o'clock, and some persons with him. They first went into the prisoner's room that he lived in, and then into his workshop, and there they were flinting five or six pistols. They did not finish them there, for one of the men said persons were overlooking them on the opposite side. Brunt told them to go into the back room, and they did. In the course of the afternoon Thistlewood came out and asked me for a piece of writing-paper, which I gave him, and he took it into the back room. After that Brunt came out and sent me for some cartridge-paper, and gave me the money. I fetched it, and gave it to Brunt, who took it into the back room. About six o'clock Brunt left the back room, and came into his own room - another person was with him whom I do not recollect; they went away together - I had heard others go down stairs before that. After my master was gone my mistress told me to go and fetch the tea-table from the back room; I knocked at the door, Potter opened it, and gave it out to me. I saw four or five others in the room, and there was a fire.
Q. In the course of the evening did Tidd call - A. Yes, he came into my master's room, Mrs. Brunt took him to the cupboard and shewed him a pike-head and a sword, and asked him what she should do with them? he said he would take them away, and did so - he took them into the back room. Between seven and eight o'clock I heard some persons go down stairs, and after that a person came in, and told Mrs. Brunt that if any person called they were to be sent to the White Hart public-house. Potter came with some others soon after, and I sent them there - they knew the way. My master came home about nine o'clock, his boots and great coat were very muddy - he seemed rather confused, and told his wife that it was all up, or words to that effect, and said where he had been a lot of officers came in, and he had saved his life, and that was all. Another person came in soon after, I do not know his name; Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had informed? the man said he had had a dreadful blow on the side, and was knocked down - they spoke as if they had been together; Brunt said there was something to be done yet, and they went out together. My mistress went to the cupboard in the back room, and found several rolls of brown paper with tar and oakum, four large balls made of string and cord, which I have since heard called hand-grenades, and an iron pot which belonged to Brunt; I found some bags made of bits of flannel, and two of them were full of something - there was also a large pole in the room. My master came home about eleven o'clock, and told me to get up early and clean his boots - I did so. He then asked me if I knew Snow's Fields? I said No, and he directed me to Kirby-street, Snow's Fields, to a person of the name of Potter, and said he had something in the back room for me to take there; we went into the back room, took each a rush basket, and he told me to put the things that were in the cupboard into the basket; they were all put in except the pole and iron pot. One of them was tied up in a blue apron of Mrs. Brunt's, which had been used as a curtain to the window of the back room. We went into Brunt's room to look for something to tie the other in, when two officers came in and took him and the things.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person171"> THOMAS SMART
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person171" type="surname" value="SMART"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person171" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person171" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a watchman of St. George, Hanover-square. On the 22d of February I was on duty in Grosvenor-square, and saw four men about. I thought they were after no good - one of them was a man of colour.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person172"> CHARLES BISSETT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person172" type="surname" value="BISSETT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person172" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person172" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a watchman of St. George, Hanover-square. I was in Grosvenor-square on the 22d of February; when I had called half-past eight o'clock - (it wanted a quarter to nine), two tall men passed me, taking particular notice of Lord Harrowby's house, or else standing at the corner of the square - one of them was a man of colour.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person173"> HENRY GILLON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person173" type="surname" value="GILLON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person173" type="given" value="HENRY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person173" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Mount-street, Berkley-square. On the 22d of February, at night, I was at the Rising Sun, public-house, at the corner of the mews and Grosvenor-square. I saw Brunt and Adams come in; they had a pot of beer and some bread and cheese. Brunt challenged me to play at dominos with him - we played two games. I left them about ten o'clock.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160043"/>
<persName id="t18200416-1-person174"> EDWARD SIMPSON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person174" type="surname" value="SIMPSON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person174" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person174" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am corporal-major of the Life Guards. Harrison was once in that regiment, and was in King-street barracks - they are only barracks for horses, not for men - he was perfectly acquainted with them. There were windows which looked into Gloucester-mews, which have been stopped up since the affair in Cato-street. Fire could easily have been thrown into them. There were two or three loads of straw within four feet of the window.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person175"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person175" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person175" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person175" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am journeyman to Mr. Underwood, cutler, in Drury-lane. On Christmas Eve last Ings brought a sword to be ground; it was a small scimitar; I have seen it since in the officer's possession. He ordered it to be ground sharp from heel to point, and also at the back. He called for it about three days after, and approved of it. About a fortnight after he brought me another sword, much longer than the first. He said the first was ground to his liking, and I was to grind this in the same manner. He left it in the name of Ings, as I understood him - he came for it himself.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person176"> JAMES ALDOUS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person176" type="surname" value="ALDOUS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person176" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person176" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a pawnbroker. The prisoner, Davidson, pledged a brass-barrelled blunderbuss with me in January, and redeemed it on the 23d of February. I have since seen it in the possession of Ruthven.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person177"> JOHN MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person177" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person177" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person177" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a prisoner in the Tower. I lived at No. 8, Garden-court, Baldwin's-gardens, near Brooks-market. About three months before I was apprehended I saw Thistlewood at a person's room of the name of Ford. He called on me about a fortnight after, in company with Brunt - my mother, and my brother,
<persName id="t18200416-1-person178"> Thomas Monument
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person178" type="surname" value="Monument"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person178" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person178" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , were with me. After they had been in the room sometime, Thistlewood said he wished to speak to me, and I went out of the room with him, leaving Brunt in the room with my brother. Thistlewood said, great events were at hand; the people were everywhere anxious for a change. He had been promised support by a great many men, who had deceived him, but now he had got men who would stand by him. He then asked me if I had any arms? I said No. He said,
"Every one ought to have arms - all of us have got arms. Some have a pistol, some a pike, and some a sabre, and you may buy a pistol for about 4 s. or 5 s." I said I had no money to buy pistols. He said he would see what he could do. He returned to the room. Thistlewood and Brunt went away together. On Tuesday, the 22d of February, Brunt and Tidd called on me, my brother was with me. I said,
"I thought I had lost you!" He said,
"The King's death has made an alteration in our plans." I asked what plans? he said there was to be a meeting on the following evening at Tyburn turnpike, where I should hear all the particulars. He then turned to Tidd, and asked him whether he should give me the word? Tidd said Yes, he supposed there was no danger. He told me, when I came to Tyburn turnpike, if I saw people about, I was to say to them B.U.T, and if they were friends they would say T.O.N. He said he should be at our house again in the morning, and tell me more about it, and at what time it was to take place. He did not call next morning, but came about half-past four o'clock alone. He called me down stairs, and told me I must go with him in half an hour - I said I could not go so soon; he asked why? I said I had some work that must be done. He asked what time I could go? I said at six o'clock. He said he could not wait so long, and I must go with Tidd, the person he brought with him the day before; he said he lived in Hole in the Wall-passage, leading into Brooks-street. I went to Tidd's about half-past six o'clock, and found him at home. He said he had been waiting for some more men to go with him, whom he expected to be there, but if nobody came before seven we should go together - nobody came. He went to the corner of the room, took a pistol, and put it into a belt which he had under his great-coat; he wrapped up eight pike heads in a piece of brown paper, and took a staff about four feet long, which had a hole at one end, adapted to receive a pike-head. We went out, and along Holborn into Oxford-street. When we got into Holborn he gave me the pike-heads to carry, and in Oxford-street I asked him to tell me where we were going? he said I should know when I got to the place - I had asked him before we left the room, and he said we were going to Tyburn turnpike, to a mews by the Edgeware-road. I asked him if we were going to the House of Commons? he said No, there were too many soldiers there. I then asked again where we were going to? he said to Grosvenor-square. I asked if any one in particular lived there? he said there was to be a cabinet dinner there.
Q. Did you go under the archway - A. Yes. Two persons were there - Tidd was a few steps before me, he spoke to them. I went into the stable, three or four men were there - Tidd went in with me; there was a light below. I went up the ladder; at the further end of the loft I found twenty-two or twenty-three people. Some one asked Thistlewood about counting them, he said there was no occasion, for there were twenty-five. There was a quantity of swords and pistols on the bench. I observed only one light there. A man in a brown coat, who sat on a chest at the end of the bench, was speaking of the impropriety of going to Lord Harrowby's with so small a number as twenty-five men. Thistlewood said that number was quite sufficient, for he only wanted fourteen men to go into the room; and supposing Lord Harrowby had sixteen men-servants, that number was quite sufficient. The man in the brown coat said,
"When we come out there will be a crowd about, how are we to make our escape?" Thistlewood said,
"You know the largest party are already gone." Davidson told him not to throw cold water on the proceedings, for if he was afraid of his life he might go, they could do without him. Brunt said, that sooner than they should go from the business he would go into the house by himself, and blow them all up if he perished with them. He said
"You know we have that which will do it." The man in the brown coat said, that though he did not like going with so small a number, yet as they were all for it he would not be against it. He proposed that they should put themselves under the orders of Thistleword. Thistleweod said, every one engaged with him should have equal honour with himself. He then proposed that fourteen men should volunteer from the persons present to enter the room. Twelve or thirteen volunteered to go, and went to the other side of the room.
Q. Give us the names of some of those that volunteered - A. Tidd, Brunt, Davidson, and Wilson were among them. Thistlewood stepped down stairs, came up again, and said they had received intelligence that the Duke of
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160044"/>Wellington and Lord Sidmouth were just arrived. I do not recollect anything more passing. Two or three officers came to the top of the ladder and told them they were officers, and desired them to surrender, saying there was a guard of soldiers below. I was taken into custody in the loft.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. I suppose you read Paine's Age of Reason - A. Yes: it did not drive me from Christianity because the Bishop of Landaff's answer was with it. It rather shook my faith, but the answer made up my mind.
Q. How long have you known Brunt - A. I never saw him till Thistlewood brought him. I never saw Thistlewood but once before, except at a public meeting. I did not know what they were going about. I thought they were going to attack the House of Commons.
Q. To murder the members - A. I do not know.
Q. Did you not say before this they told you there was a cabinet dinner, and then you was fully convinced what they were going about - A. Yes: I certainly thought it was to destroy the persons assembled. I was forced to join them from fear.
Q. Why not retire when they told the other man he might - A. I should have been loth to take him at his word.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person179"> THOMAS MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person179" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person179" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person179" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am brother of the last witness. I remember Thistlewood coming to the house one evening with Brunt. Thistlewood asked if he could speak with him. He and Thistlewood went out of the room, Brunt remained behind. In two or three minutes they returned to the room. Brunt and Thistlewood left together. On the 22d of February Brunt called again in company with a man named Tidd, my brother said
"I thought I had lost you." Brunt said the King's death had made an alteration in their plans. My brother asked what plans? he said they had different objects in view. Brunt asked Tidd if he should give us the plan; I do not know whether Tidd made any answer, but Brunt gave us the pass-word. We were to go to Tyburn turnpike the next evening, and if we saw any men about we were to say B.U.T. and if any of the party were there they would answer T.O.N. I was asked to go. I neither refused or consented. I suppose they expected me but they chiefly directed their discourse to my brother. Next day Brunt called again between four and five, my brother said he could not go just then. Brunt told him when he was ready to call on Tidd, at Hole in the Wall-passage. He left, and my brother went out about seven o'clock, I never saw him after.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person180"> JOHN MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person180" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person180" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person180" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. Q. Do you remember being at Whitehall - A. Yes: I was handcuffed to Thistlewood. Brunt was in the room, and the other prisoners, waiting to be examined. Thistlewood said
"When I came to be examined before the Privy Council to say that it was Edwards that led me to the meeting, and that it was through Edwards that I came there." I said how could I tell that falsehood when he knew I never saw the man. He said that was of no consequence, if they were to ask what sort of a man he was, I was to say he was not much taller than myself, and a sallow complexion, and dressed in a brown great coat." We were seated round the room. Thistlewood told me that Edwards was the person who betrayed them, and to pass it round the room to the other prisoners. I said I should be noticed, and he leant over to Bradburn who sat next to me, but Bradburn took no notice of what he said. He then leant over the other way to another, and spoke to him. I never saw Edwards.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person181"> THOMAS HIDEN
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person181" type="surname" value="HIDEN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person181" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person181" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I have carried on business as a cow-keeper and dairyman in Manchester-mews. I am now a prisoner for debt. I was arrested a week ago last Saturday. I know the prisoner, Wilson, perfectly well.
Q. Did he make any proposition to you - A. He met me a few days before the 23d, and asked if I would be one of a party to destroy His Majesty's ministers at a cabinet dinner; he said they had got all things ready, and were waiting for a cabinet dinner, and that they had got such things as I never saw. He said they were large things bound round with tarpaulin and cords, and filled full of nails, iron, and other things; and that they were very strong. If they were set fire to they would heave up one of the walls of the opposite house in the street we were walking in; that they meant to light up a few fires by setting fire to some houses, and by keeping the town in confusion for a few days it would become general. He said these things were to be put into the room where the gentlemen were at dinner, and all that escaped the explosion were to die by the edge of the sword or some other way.
Q. Did he mention any houses they were to set fire to - A. The Duke of Wellington's, Lords Harrowby, Sidmouth and Castlereagh's, and the Bishop of London's, and one more which I cannot remember. He said they should depend on me to make one, and I said I would.
Q. Before the 23d did you write to Lord Castlereagh - A. I did; and went to his lordship's, but could not get access to him. I watched about Lord Harrowby's house two or three times, and at last saw him come out of his house. I followed him to the Park and delivered him the letter I wrote to Lord Castlereagh. This is the very letter (looking at it).
Q. Next day who did you see - A. Between four and five in the afternoon I was going up Manchester-street with one of my little girls and met Wilson, he said
"Hiden you are the man I want to see." I said Wilson,
"What is there going to be?" He said
"There is a cabinet dinner tonight at Lord Harrowby's in Grosvenor-square." I asked where they were going to meet, he said I was to go up into John-street to the Horse and Groom public-house, and stop there or at the corner of the post till I was shoved into a stable close by. He said I was to meet them at a quarter before six or six o'clock, and if I did not make haste the grand thing would be over before I came. I asked how many were coming? He said about twenty or thirty. I asked if that was all? He said there was another party in Gray's Inn-lane, another in the Borough, another in Gee's-court in the City. I do not know which. He said I had no occasion to be alarmed, for all Gee's-court were in it. I believe that court is inhabited by Irish people - it turns out of Oxford-street. He said the Irish were all in it but they would not act till the English began, as the English had so often deceived them.
Q. Did he mention what place the party were to go to - A. He said a party were to go to Lord Harrowby's, and do the grand thing, then all parties were to meet in
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160045"/>in the neighbourhood of the Mansion House. He said there are two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane which could easily be taken by knocking in a small door; and that there were four more pieces in some artillery ground, which were easy to be got at by killing the sentry. I then left him.
Q. Did you go to John-street that evening - A. I did, between six and seven o'clock; I take it to be near seven. When I came to the gateway by the Horse and Groom I met Wilson and Davidson. I knew them before and had conversation with them. Wilson said
"You are come." I said yes; but I am behind the time. Davidson said
"If you are going in Thistlewood is there." I asked at what time they meant to go away from there, as I must go and get some cream. He said they meant to leave that place about eight o'clock, and if they were gone before I came, I was to follow them down to Grosvenor-square. I parted from them at the fourth house from the corner.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. How long had you known Wilson - A. Five or six months; I was a good deal with him at a master tailor's. I went twice to the meeting of the shoemakers' club; I was introduced there by my friend Clark - it was on two Sunday evenings.
Q. You never attended their private meetings - A. Never. I know a man named Burt, but I never persuaded him to attend a meeting. When my friend Clark called on me, I said I dare say Mr. Burt would go. He knew Clark as well as I did.
Q. Did you not invite him to go to attend this club, and tell him that something was to be done for the good of his country - A. I cannot say that I did.
Q. He will be called to contradict you, did you not say so - A. I cannot say that I did. I asked him to go, but cannot say that I said anything more. I did not know of the meeting at Cato-street till the 23d, when I met Wilson. I made a communication to Lord Harrowby before that.
Q. Did you not inform his Lordship the place where the meeting was to be - A. I did not. I wrote the letter myself.
THE RIGHT HON. THE EARL OF HARROWBY. I am one of the Privy Council, and one of His Majesty's Ministers. (Here his Lordship named the Honourable Personages composing the Cabinet).
Q. Do these noblemen and gentlemen hold what are called cabinet dinners - A. They do. In consequence of the death of His late Majesty the dinners were suspended. I intended to give a cabinet dinner on the 23d of February, and ordered cards of invitation to be issued on the Friday or Saturday preceeding.
Q. Before the 23d of February did your Lordship see Hiden - A. I saw him in the Park on Tuesday, the 22d of February, I believe between two and three o'clock in the afternoon. He gave me a letter directed to Lord Castlereagh - this is it - (looking at it) - I had some conversation with him, and asked him if he had put his name and address in the letter? he said he had not, and gave me a card of his name and address. I saw him by appointment next morning in the ring in Hyde Park; as he seemed fearful of continuing in conversation with me at Grosvenor Gate, I passed him at Grosvenor Gate, told him to go in, and I would meet him at the ring, which I did.
Q. Was the dinner held at your Lordship's house - A. It was not, but the preparations were carried on as if it was to take place, and between seven and eight o'clock I wrote to the principal servant, from the Earl of Liverpool's, informing him that the cabinet would not dine there. The persons I mentioned are Prime Ministers, and employed in the administration of the affairs of Government - they form the Cabinet Council.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person182"> JOHN BAKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person182" type="surname" value="BAKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person182" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person182" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am butler to the Earl of Harrowby. By his direction I sent out invitations to a cabinet dinner to be held on the 23d of February. I issued cards on Friday or Saturday, the 18th or 19th - I believe it was on Saturday. On Wednesday evening, about eight or ten o'clock at night I received intimation that the cabinet would not dine - up to that time the preparations went on. I believe some carriages arrived at the Archbishop of York's, which is next door, between six and seven o'clock.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person183"> RICHARD MUNDAY
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person183" type="surname" value="MUNDAY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person183" type="given" value="RICHARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person183" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 3, Cato-street; I know the stable in the street. On the 23d of February, about three o'clock in the afternoon, I saw Harrison go into the stable. I came home about twenty minutes past four o'clock, and saw Davidson walking up and down by the archway for some time. I got my tea, came out, and went to the chandler's shop, then went to the public-house, came out for a necessary purpose, and saw Davidson pass me with two candles in his hand; it might then be ten minutes past six o'clock - he lit one of the candles at a woman's, at No. 1. I saw two persons go into the stable and three come out in the course of the afternoon. Before Davidson went in I saw three go in, and then saw one go in to him. When I came home in the afternoon, I heard a knocking over the stable door - they were nailing some sacking over the window, which would prevent people from seeing into it - the stable had been unoccupied since Christmas.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person184"> GEORGE CAYLOCK
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person184" type="surname" value="CAYLOCK"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person184" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person184" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 2, Cato-street. On the evening of the 23d of February I saw Harrison in Cato-street; I knew him before - I saw him go into the stable. He said he had taken two chambers there, and was going to clean them up. I saw from twenty to twenty-five people going in in the course of that evening.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN. I am a constable of Bow-street. On the 23d of February I went to Cato-street. I got there about half-past six o'clock with three officers, and was afterwards joined by more. I went to the Horse and Groom, and while there Cooper and Gilchrist came in; Cooper brought a mop-stick and left it there, which I took away, and have had ever since. I entered the stable about half-past eight o'clock, and observed a man with a gun on his shoulder, and a sword by his side, walking backwards and forwards, apparently as a sentinel - I do not know who he was; I called to the party who followed me to secure him. I went up the ladder, and on entering the loft I found several men; I saw a bench with arms, swords, and pistols on it, and heard the clashing of arms. Ellis and Smithers went up with me; I saw Thistlewood in the room - he stood on the right side of the bench as I went up - I knew him before. On my going into the loft I said,
"We are officers, seize their arms!" Thistlewood
<persName id="t18200416-1-person185">drew</persName> a sword from the bench, and retreated aside to the small room; there was a light in the loft, and in the little room he stood fencing with the sword. Smithers advanced towards him, when Thistlewood put his arm forward and
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160046"/>stabbed him. Smithers fell back, exclaiming,
"Oh God! I am done," or
"I am killed." I do not know which - he died immediately. A pistol was fired, and the lights put out immediately. In the corner of the room where Thistlewood had retired to, I heard a voice say,
"Kill the b - g - rs! Throw them down stairs!" There was a rush towards the stairs; I joined in the cry, and got down with them. On going out I met the soldiers in John-street, returned, and saw Tidd about eight or nine feet from the stable door - he appeared to be endeavouring to get away. I told somebody to seize him, and he lifted up his arm as if to fire. I saw a pistol in his hand, laid hold of the arm in which he had the pistol, and swang him round, fell upon a dunghill and he upon me; the soldiers came up directly - the pistol went off, and he was secured. I searched him in the Horse and Groom, and found a leather belt round him and two ball cartridges in his pocket. Bradburn was brought in, and I searched him; he had a string round his waist four or five times as a belt; also six ball cartridges and three loose balls in his breeches pocket. Davidson and Wilson were brought in and searched, but not by me.
Q. When Davidson came in what passed - A. He d - d and swore at any man who would not die in liberty's cause - he gloried in it. He also sung part of the song
"Scots wha hae wi' Wallace bled, &c." Wilson said he knew it was all up, and they might as well knock him on the head now. I returned to the loft, found several soldiers, some of the police officers, and four of the prisoners.
Q. After the candle was put out in the loft was there any firing - A. Yes, I should think twenty or thirty shots were fired in the loft; some of them were fired out of the window - there is no doubt but they proceeded from the party in the loft, they were not from other parts. I am not aware that any of us had gained the top, except myself, Ellis, and Smithers. I attempted to fire, but my pistol missed. Ellis fired once. Smithers did not fire.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person186"> JAMES ELLIS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person186" type="surname" value="ELLIS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person186" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person186" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am conductor of the Bow-street patrol. I went with Ruthven to Cato-street, and was close to him. On entering the stable I saw a man between the foot of the ladder and the door - he had two white belts across his shoulders, in his right hand a carbine, and in his left a long sword. I took him by the collar, turned him half round, and observed he was a man of colour - he was tall and stout. I believe it to be Davidson. There was another man between the manger and the foot of the ladder, in the further stall, he had a dark-coloured coat on, and appeared shorter than the man of colour. Ruthven mounted the ladder, I followed him, and heard some person below say
"Above, men;" as I thought, but I heard the word men. On getting to the top of the ladder, I observed a number of men falling back from the bench towards the wall. I observed lights on the bench, and some arms. I saw Thistlewood in the loft, at the end of the bench, with two or three more, between that and the door entering to the little room; he had a sword in his hand, which he held at me, and shook it in a threatening attitude. I desired him to desist or I would fire; at the same time I presented a pistol, he backed into the little room. Smithers followed me up the ladder, and by the time I gained the top of the ladder he went forward towards the door, Thistlewood made a push with his sword, and stabbed him in a near the right breast, he staggered, exclaimed
"Oh my God!" and fell. I instantly fired at Thistlewood, but without effect. The moment I fired the lights were put out, and a rush made towards the ladder. I was forced down stairs, and went to the door - two shots were fired from some part of the stable, and passed me in the doorway. I saw a man fire from the ladder towards the manger - I do not know who it was. There were some shots fired from the window towards the door where I stood, as if they were pointed downward at those who came out of the door. I heard a cry of stop him, and saw a man of colour running, pursued, and took him a direction towards Queen-street - it was Davidson; he made a cut at me just as I closed with him, but not after; he had a carbine in his hand, and a sword by his side. I found three or four of them in the stable, Wilson and Monument were two, the others I do not know.
WM. WESTCOAT. I am a Bow-street officer. I accompanied the other officers to Cato-street; Ruthven, Ellis, and Smithers went up the ladder. I observed Ings at the further end of the stable, I had a contest with him - while this was taking place I heard a firing and confusion in the loft. The officers came tumbling down; after this I saw Thistlewood come down, he presented a pistol at my head and fired. I put up my left hand, and the ball went through my coat, grazed the skin of my arm, and went through my hat. I made a rush to lay hold of him, received a blow on my head, and fell - he rushed out of the stable door and escaped. I afterwards went up, and found Smithers dead.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person187"> JOHN WRIGHT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person187" type="surname" value="WRIGHT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person187" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person187" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I accompanied the other officers to Cato-street, and afterwards assisted in securing Ings. I had a conflict with him in the stable, and took a butcher's knife and a sword from him - the handle of the knife was wound round with wax-end. I was knocked down and received a stab in my side, and he escaped - he was taken soon after.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person188"> JOSEPH CHAMPION
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person188" type="surname" value="CHAMPION"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person188" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person188" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I was at Cato-street on the 23d of February, and saw Ings standing at the foot of the ladder; he called out
"Look out above!" Westcoat was endeavouring to secure him. After I came from the ladder I heard a noise, and on looking down I saw part of a man's body in the hay-rack. I went to the rack, and made the person get into the loft again - I do not know who he was. Several shots were fired from up stairs. I saw Thistlewood running up Cato-street, waving his sword as be went along - during this time Ings had escaped; I pursued him into the Edgware-road, found him in the custody of a watchman and Wright. We took him to Marylebone watch-house, searched him, and found two haversacks slung under his great-coal, one under each arm. I found a tin case of gunpowder, and in his pocket four pistol-balls, a pistol-key, and a cloth case for a large knife.
CAPTAIN FITZCLARENCE. I am a Lieutenant of the Coldstream Guards. On the 23d of February I was applied to, and went with a piquet to Cato-street. I got to John-street about six o'clock, and met a police officer, who called out
"Soldiers! soldiers! the door-way, the stable." I went on, and met two men at the door, one of whom presented a pistol, and the other cut at me - I parried his cut, we exchanged several cuts. He, seeing the body of the
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160047"/>piquet coming up, ran into the stable; I followed him, and on entering the stable I ran against a man, who cried out,
"Don't hurt me, and I will tell you all." I gave him over to the piquet, and ran up into one of the stalls of the stable, where I took another man and gave him to the soldiers. I then led the men up the ladder into the loft, where I found three, four, and five men, and a quantity of arms - the soldiers came up and took them into custody. The body of poor Smithers laid on the floor.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person189"> SAMUEL HERCULES TAUNTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person189" type="surname" value="HERCULES TAUNTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person189" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person189" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a police officer of Bow-street. On Thursday morning, the 24th of February, I went to Brunt's lodgings, and apprehended him between seven and eight o'clock in the morning, in the front two pair of stairs room. I left him in custody of another officer, and went and searched the back room. I found a quantity of fire-balls, grenades, and other things in two baskets. I returned to the front room and questioned him about them, he said he knew nothing of them. I sent for Mrs. Rogers, the landlady, and enquired who occupied the room? she said some man took it in company with Brunt. I asked Brunt who that man was? he denied any knowledge of him, only from seeing him once at the public-house. We then proceeded to Tidd's, and found more grenades, cartridges, and balls.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person190"> DANIEL BISHOP
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person190" type="surname" value="BISHOP"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person190" type="given" value="DANIEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person190" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am an officer of Bow-street. I apprehended Thistlewood on Thursday morning the 24th of February, between ten and eleven o'clock, at No. 8, White-street, Little Moorfield's, at the house of Mrs. Harris. He lodged in Stanhope-street, Clare-market. His wife and son lived there. Adjourned.
SECOND DAY, TUESDAY, APRIL 25.
Examination resumed.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN produced the several quantities of arms and ammunition, &c. found in the stable and loft in Cato-street, and on the persons of the different prisoners, with the butcher's-knife, which exactly fitted the case found on Ings.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person191"> JOHN HECTER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person191" type="surname" value="HECTER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person191" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person191" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> MORRISON. Here is the sword I first ground for Ings among those produced.
S. H. TAUNTON produced the two baskets found at Brunt's, with their contents, as produced on the former trials; also with the ammunition, &c. found at Tidd's.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN re-examined. The arms were for the most part loaded when I found them at Cato-street. I
<persName id="t18200416-1-person192">drew</persName> the charges before I brought them here. They were all loaded with ball, except a gun, which was loaded with shot.
S. H. HANSON. I am a sergeant in the Royal Artillery. The powder bags are in imitation of a cartridge for a six pounder. There is exactly a pound of powder in each, and very fine powder. Our artillery bags are made with serge and not flannel, but these would answer the same purpose. The fire-balls are composed of oakum, tar, rosin, and brimstone. If thrown into a building a light, they would set it on fire. They would burn three or four minutes. It would produce a conflagration in the barracks. The steel filings are part of the composition for the fusee. The hand-grenade is a composition of rope-yarn tared, wound round a tin-can, containing three and a half ounces of powder, which is more than sufficient to burst a nine-inch shell. Our military grenades are made of metal, but these would answer the purpose. The harder they are bound the stronger the explosion would be (here the witness dissected one). This has twenty-five pieces of iron intermixed with the binding. They would fly about the room like so many shot, and if thrown into a room with fifteen gentlemen at dinner would prove destructive to the lives of many. The explosion would take place half a minute after lighting the fusee.
Messrs. CURWOOD and ADOLPHUS addressed the jury on behalf of the prisoner, who made the following
Defence. My Lords and Gentlemen of the Jury, I have a few observations to make respecting the evidence, particularly of Monument. It is quite useless for me to deny being in the room in Cato-street. I do not intend to deny it, but immediately on the arrival of Monument he approached me when he saw the arms, and asked
"What was going to be done?" I replied that I was not aware that any thing was going to be done, for that Edwards had not brought so many men by thirty as he stated he could bring, and it was not my intention to endeavour to do anything with so few men. Monument betrayed a great deal of fear, and I persuaded him to go away. There has been a considerable stress laid upon a number of men volunteering to go to Lord Harrowby's, this I totally deny. I will admit when Thistlewood addressed himself to the few men there, he said they would not act; he urged the necessity of going to act or it would be a Despard job. Then some few men went into a small room, but they never came to the determination to go the house. They were endeavouring to find fourteen or fifteen men desperate enough to go to the square, which I am certain they could not have done. I am not so far desperate as to go to meet instant death. On the other hand I wish to call your attention to two other circumstances: first, Adams states, in order to implicate me more deeply than any other (except Thistlewood), that I said if there was only eight men I would go to the room and blow the house about their cars. This is, my Lords, false. Then Monument comes forward and declares I said I would go by myself and bury myself in the ruins. Is this consistent? Is this sufficient evidence, my Lords, to deprive a man of life - a son of a father - and a wife of a husband? I wish to advert to another circumstance while a prisoner in Coldbath-fields; when I came out of my room to the fire, I saw Monument, Strange, Cooper, and Bradburn, Monument came slyly to me, sat himself down by my side, and whispered these words:
"What did you say when you was before the Privy Council?" I said I knew nothing of the matter. This induced me to ask him what he said.
"I could say nothing," said he,
"You told me nothing. Why did you not tell me more?" I said,
"Was it possible for me to tell you what I did not know myself. You know very well that when it was declared that every man should go into small room that would go on this desperate affair, I declined." Adams was the man that wanted to go to the house; (and him, among the rest) a man whom I know to be a villain, and who
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160048"/>has come to my house two or three times. I am no traitor; I was determined that rather than betray a fellow-creature I would be racked on the wheel. Now, my Lords, I will advert to a circumstance that occurred to me at Cambray, my life is placed in the hands of twelve honest men, it becomes me to state every thing beneficial to myself and my fellow-prisoners. While I was in France I met Adams - I was a boot-closer - I assisted in closing boots for him, and learning him what I could, he became jealous of me, and threatened to take my life; and declared to his wife that if she did not make an open declaration that if she spoke to me her life was in danger; he would murder her - this she did. If enquiry was made, nothing treasonable will be found against me while I was in the Coldstream Guards. I went from Cambray to Lisle, where I had worked for eighteen months together with a Mr. Pulsford. I obtained a little money there and came to England. My wife heard that me and my son were assassinated in France, and she lost her senses. After I returned she came out of St. Luke's, and I obtained work from a master who turned out to be a relation of my apprentice, who has come here to take my life, he is held up as a respectable witness. I will advert to some circumstances concerning his family; it must be well recollected that
<persName id="t18200416-1-person193"> John Hale
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person193" type="surname" value="Hale"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person193" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person193" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , the brother to the very man who apprenticed the boy to me, who had a warehouse in Ironmonger-lane; and under false pretences swindled the merchants of London out of 100,000 l. and it was by a chain of circumstances I knew of what descendants the boy is. I can prove he has been a villain to me. The relation of his whom I worked for asked me to take him apprentice. I had him on liking and could not avoid taking him, as my bread depended on it, or I wished not to take him. I was promised seven years work with him, but shortly after he was bound I was thrown out of work, by his relation reducing my wages twice, and I would not put up with it. I went to live in Fox-court, and as fast as I got work this boy spoilt it purposely. About eighteen months ago my wife was not very well and I took a lodging a little way out of town, and this boy robbed me of a book. He was in the habit of going about thieving. I can bring two boys to prove that he stole a steel from a butcher's shop. He was charged in Gray's Inn-lane with robbing a gentleman of his watch, and was taken to a public-house who knew me, and said the gentleman must be mistaken, for he knew his master well, and he was liberated. I do not know that it is altogether to the present question, but two years and a half ago he had a brother under sentence of death in this very prison. He sold the steel for 3 s. 6 d., and told me he sold it for 2 s. 6 d. I hope the Jury will well weigh his evidence. I know nothing of Hiden. I wish to advert to Edwards, who was the first individual who drew me into it. This Edwards I first saw in company with Thistlewood at the White Lion, in Wych-street, he shortly afterwards called on me at my lodgings in Fox-court. I was short of work. He called on me two or three times a day, long before the room was taken. When he called, if I was not at home he would call again, and if I was gone to a shop for work he would come after me and wait outside - (this was the case at a person's house named Scott. who saw him outside, and said,
"Why does be not come in?") This man harrassed me, and even at times supplied me with money. I can bring evidence to prove that he has endeavoured to drag them into the plot, and told them he had a great opinion of me; but I am no traitor, my Lord. He considered me as a man capable of being drawn into a plot, and as such the more fit to be betrayed. He has called with me, and treated people at public-houses. This was his constant practice from day to day, for two months, till the day I was apprehended. I declare before God he is the individual who drew me into it, and not Thistlewood. From the different favours I received from him I certainly had a good opinion of the man. When the officers came to Cato-street I made my escape the best way I could, though not as a coward or a traitor. I did not desert my companions. I went to Grosvenor-square, where this villain (who will probably be the means of my being sent into another world) was - I told him what had happened, he seemed surprised, and left the square with me. Shortly after up came Thistlewood and another person, who was in the room - he has not been taken nor ever will. We left the square - he took us into several wine-vaults to drink, merely, as I suppose, to identify us. I had not long been in my room before a man came in and said he had received a violent blow on his side, but my apprentice forgot to state that Edwards came on the stairs and called us out again. We then went into Holborn, and met Palin, and then went to a wine-vaults opposite St. Andrew's church, Holborn; Edwards paid for three glasses of gin, and we came out. Edwards called me aside, and said he wished to speak with me. He began to find fault with me for drinking with Palin, and declared he was the man that had betrayed us all, and that he was unworthy to live. He declared that he had prevented ten or twelve men from coming to Cato-street, whom he had depended on, and that he sent Potter to wait in Grosvenor-square. We walked as far as Little Britain, and when we came to a dark place, where he said Cook lived, he again urged me respecting Palin, who was very much intoxicated. He said the safest way would be to put Palin out of the world, and urged me to assassinate him. He put his hand in his pocket, and pulled out a brass-barrelled loaded pistol, and offered me a sword-stick, and said if we put him out of the world every thing would be safe. He shewed me a constable's staff, and said,
"I will act in the same capacity as I did in Grosvenor-square. If any alarm should be raised I will act as an officer, and nothing shall happen." I said,
"If you are convinced Palin is a villain, the weapon is in good hands." Finding he could not prevail on me, he said,
"I must wish you good night, for I am going to conduct Mr. Thistlewood to a secret place." As he had been intimate with Thistlewood I thought him the most proper person. I was determined not to know where they went to, and wished him good night, but not without receiving an admonition from him. He came and whispered to me, and told me that Palin and Potter had done nothing that was entrusted to them, and that the things were taken to the back room in my lodgings, and asked me to have them all tied up in the morning, and to send my boy with them, part to Palin's and part to Potter's, in the Borough, with intent (as I have no doubt) to take their lives. I tied them up, as my apprentice said, but afterwards altered my mind, thinking that if they wanted them they might send for them. This
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160049"/>is all I know of the plot. Edwards is the man who went about to different old-iron shops to buy swords and pistols, and procured money to purchase the ammunition. This I declare before that God, in whose presence I shall shortly appear. Monument is a spy for Government. But if I die, I will not die unworthy the name of an Ancient Briton. Sooner than I would betray a man I would suffer a thousand deaths.
The Jury, after twenty minutes consultation, found the prisoner

<rs id="t18200416-1-verdict6" type="verdictDescription">
<interp inst="t18200416-1-verdict6" type="verdictCategory" value="guilty"/> GUILTY </rs>. -
<rs id="t18200416-1-punish7" type="punishmentDescription">
<interp inst="t18200416-1-punish7" type="punishmentCategory" value="death"/>
<join result="defendantPunishment" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-defend8 t18200416-1-punish7"/>
<join result="defendantPunishment" targOrder="Y" targets="t18200416-1-defend149 t18200416-1-punish7"/> DEATH </rs>.
On the Third and Fourth Counts.
Before Lord
<persName id="t18200416-1-person194" type="judiciaryName"> Chief Baron Richards
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person194" type="surname" value="Baron Richards"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person194" type="given" value="Chief"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person194" type="gender" value="indeterminate"/> </persName> , Mr.
<persName id="t18200416-1-person195" type="judiciaryName"> Baron Garrow
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person195" type="surname" value="Garrow"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person195" type="given" value="Baron"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person195" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Mr. Justice Richardson, and Mr. Common Sergeant.
TRIAL OF
<persName id="t18200416-1-defend197" type="defendantName"> RICHARD TIDD
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend197" type="surname" value="TIDD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend197" type="given" value="RICHARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend197" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> AND
<persName id="t18200416-1-defend199" type="defendantName"> WILLIAM DAVIDSON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend199" type="surname" value="DAVIDSON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend199" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-defend199" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> .
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26.
The following Jury were Sworn,

<persName id="t18200416-1-person200" type="jurorName"> William Percy
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person200" type="surname" value="Percy"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person200" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person200" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Cleaveland-street, Marylebone, plasterer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person201" type="jurorName"> John George Holmden
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person201" type="surname" value="George Holmden"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person201" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person201" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , St. James's-walk, Clerkenwell, fusee-cutter.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person202" type="jurorName"> John King
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person202" type="surname" value="King"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person202" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person202" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Islington-road, gentleman.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person203" type="jurorName"> Charles Elton Prescott
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person203" type="surname" value="Elton Prescott"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person203" type="given" value="Charles"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person203" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Colney-hatch, Esq.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person204" type="jurorName"> Benjamin Rogers
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person204" type="surname" value="Rogers"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person204" type="given" value="Benjamin"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person204" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Lampton, farmer.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person205" type="jurorName"> George Golding
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person205" type="surname" value="Golding"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person205" type="given" value="George"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person205" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Jamaica-place, Limehouse, surveyor.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person206" type="jurorName"> Charles Page
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person206" type="surname" value="Page"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person206" type="given" value="Charles"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person206" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , of Crouch-end, Esq. and merchant.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person207" type="jurorName"> John Young
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person207" type="surname" value="Young"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person207" type="given" value="John"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person207" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Frederick-place, St. Pancras, gent. and scale-maker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person208" type="jurorName"> William Butler
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person208" type="surname" value="Butler"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person208" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person208" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Hounslow, baker.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person209" type="jurorName"> Joseph Sheffield
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person209" type="surname" value="Sheffield"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person209" type="given" value="Joseph"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person209" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Penny's-field, Poplar, Esq. and ironmonger.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person210" type="jurorName"> William Churchill
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person210" type="surname" value="Churchill"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person210" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person210" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Hedge-row, Islington, gent. and wine-merchant.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person211" type="jurorName"> Samuel Granger
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person211" type="surname" value="Granger"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person211" type="given" value="Samuel"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person211" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Blackwall, lighterman.
The prisoners were given in charge of the Jury.
MR. GURNEY stated the case, and called the following evidence:

<persName id="t18200416-1-person212"> ROBERT ADAMS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person212" type="surname" value="ADAMS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person212" type="given" value="ROBERT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person212" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a shoemaker. Before I was in confinement I lived at No. 4, Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market. I was in the Royal Horse Guards. I left the army eighteen years ago. I first became acquainted with Brunt at Cambray, in France, in 1815 - the English army were at that time there - I followed my trade among them. I saw Brunt early in the present year at his lodgings in Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane - he was a boot-closer. He proposed to introduce me to Thistlewood, in consequence of which, on Wednesday, the 12th of January, I accompanied him and Ings to Thistlewood's lodgings. Brunt said to Thistlewood,
"This is the man I was speaking to you about." Thistlewood said,
"You were in the Life Guards?" I said No, I was formerly in the Oxford Blues. He said,
"I presume you are a good soldier," and after that,
"a good swordsman." I said I once was, and could use a sword now to defend myself, but it was a long while since I had used a sword, or arms of any description. He turned his discourse on the different shopkeepers, saying they were a set of Aristocrats altogether, and were working under one system of government, and he should glory to see the day when all the shops would be shut up, and well plundered. He then said Mr. Hunt was a d - d coward, and no friend of the people, and he had no doubt, if he could get into Whitehall to see the books, he should find his name in them as a spy for Government; and that Cobbett, with all his writings, was of no good to the country, and that he had no doubt he was a spy equally with Hunt. Brunt said he had to call on two men in Carnaby-market, and wanted Thistlewood to to go with him - Thistlewood refused. Brunt spoke to Thistlewood about a blunderbuss that was to be raffled for, and asked him if he should be there - to the best of my recollection he said he should. On this we left.
Q. Had Brunt at any time stated to you any plan - A. Previous to my going to Thistlewood Brunt told me there was a plan drawn up by two or three, and he had no doubt if I would consent to join them, that it would meet my approbation. The plan was to assassinate the ministers the first time they met together to dine. He also said,
"We have got good information where the thieves keep their money, which amounts to upwards of three millions, all in hard specie, and after we have done this we intend to go to that place, and well plunder it." Sometime after I was in Whitecross-street prison for debt, and came out on Sunday, the 30th of January.
Q. After you came out of prison, did you go to a meeting in Fox-court - A. Yes, on Monday evening, in a back room on the second floor, on the same floor in which Brunt lived. I heard Brunt say he hired that room for Ings - there was nothing in it but a stove which was fixed. We continued to hold meetings there twice a day, except on Sunday evenings, up to the 23d of February.
Q. Who usually attended these meetings - A. Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, Hall, Davidson, Harrison, Wilson, Bradburn, and Edwards, and Tidd, occasionally. I do not remember any more at this moment.
Q. Can you tell us what passed at the meetings - A. On the Wednesday night after I left prison I went to the room, and saw Thistlewood and Harrison, and in the course of the evening Ings, Tidd, Wilson, and Edwards were there. When I went in Thistlewood and Harrison had been in deep discourse about information which Harrison had received. They said he had met a Life Guardsman who told him that all the Life and Foot Guards that could be mounted were to attend the King's funeral, as well as the police officers, and he said that after he left the Life Guardsman it came to his mind that it would be an excellent opportunity to kick up a row in London. Thistlewood agreed to the plan, and proposed that it should be done by collecting what men they had among themselves and taking the cannon in Gray's Inn-lane and the Artillery Ground, and fire balls were to be made use of to set fire to the different buildings, thinking it would be an excellent opportunity, as what police officers and soldiers were left in London, would not be sufficient to protect it. Thistlewood said it would be necessary to send a party to Hyde Park Corner to prevent any orderly man leaving London for Windsor to communicate what was passing. He also proposed that the telegraph over the water should be taken to prevent any communication being sent to Woolwich; the plan met the approbation of those who were assembled. After that Brunt and Ings came in, and Thistlewood communicated the plan to them. Brunt and Ings declared that nothing short of the assassination of the ministers which they had in view should satisfy them. In consequence of this the project was given up.
Q. Now, do you remember a meeting which took
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160050"/>place on Saturday, the 19th of February - A. Yes. Thistlewood, Harrison, Brunt, Ings, and Hall were there. On my going into the room they seemed in a study among themselves. They got up, and Thistlewood said,
"Well, it is agreed upon, that if nothing happens between this and Wednesday night, on that night we will all go to work, as we are all so poor we can wait no longer." He gave instructions that a committee should sit the next morning at nine o'clock to draw up a plan how to act. I left them there, and went to the meeting next morning, which was larger than usual; the prisoners at the bar were both there - I got there about eleven. After being in the room a little time Thistlewood said there were twelve of us, and it was time to proceed to business. He proposed that Tidd should take the chair, which he did with a pike in his hand. Thistlewood began, by stating that they were come to a determination that if nothing happened between that and Wednesday night they were determined to go to work, for they had been waiting so long expecting the ministers to dine together, and if they did not dine together between that and then, they would take them separately. On this he began to propose that the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, and the six in the Artillery-Ground should be taken, and Palin was to take on himself to set fire to the different buildings - he was to be assisted by men that he was to collect himself. This Thistlewood said was the outline of the plan, and as Brunt had something to propose respecting the assassination, he should leave him to speak. On this Brunt came forward, but Thistlewood stopped him, saying let my plan first be put from the chair, and if any one has any thing to say respecting it let him speak - it was then put and agreed to by all present. Brunt came forward and said,
"As we cannot get the ministers altogether, and it is agreed to take them separately, I propose that we shall get as many as we can collect, and they should be separated into different parties, and from each party a man should be drawn to do the deed, or murder, and if the man the lot fell to attempted it and did not do it, if there was any sign of cowardice, that man should be run through directly. On that I got up myself, and asked him if he thought it not possible for a man to attempt a thing of that kind and fail, and was he to be run through on the spot? He said No, unless there were signs of cowardice; this motion was put from the chair and agreed to. Directly after this, in came Palin, Potter, and Strange; what had passed was communicated to them by Thistlewood and Brunt, and they agreed to it. Palin got up and addressed himself to the chairman, saying.
"I wish to say a few words. I have paid attention and agreed to what has been proposed, but I should like to know how the things are to be done, as so many things are to be done at one time. You talk of the West End job taking from forty to fifty men." (Thistlewood had mentioned from forty to fifty men to do it).
Q. What was the West End job - A. The assassination of the ministers.
"You talk" said he,
"of taking the two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, and the six pieces in the Artillery Ground, and my taking my part with the fire party; I want to know how this is to be done, you ought to know what men you can depend on better than I do, but I can give no satisfaction what men I can get at. I wish to know If I may have instructions from here to communicate to the men what has passed this morning." It was agreed between Thistlewood, Brunt, and Tidd, that if Palin could depend on his men he was at liberty to communicate to them what he thought proper - on this he sat down satisfied; the chair was then left, and they were pretty well all standing, when Thistlewood suddenly turned round, and said,
"Oh Brunt! well thought of, now Palin is here you may as well take him to that spot close by, and see whether it is practicable." (It was Furnival's Inn), the back part of it is not finished yet - the back is by Fox-court. They went out, returned, and Palin gave in word that it was a very good job, very easy to be done, and would make a good fire. Thistlewood said it was highly necessary to get the men together and give them a treat, but then said he did not know how it was to be done for they were all so poor. On that Brunt turned round, saying he had a 1 l. note which he had reserved for the purpose, and though he had done little or no work lately he would be d - d if he would not spend it on his men. Thistlewood said,
"Where shall we take them to, I suppose Hobbs will have no objection to let us take them up stairs." Brunt said he did not like that, in consequence of what had fallen from me, but then said,
"Never mind, we can go there as our time is getting so short; I don't see what we have to fear from the traps." Meetings had been held at the White Hart before I went to prison. On second recollection Brunt said he could give his apprentice and boy a holiday, send his wife out, and have what men they could collect, at his lodgings.
Q. After that you separated, now tell us if you had seen any arms in that back room at different periods - A. Yes, I had seen pike-staves in their rough state, the ends were just cut; Bradburn sawed the ends of them off, and put ferrels on - holes were bored in them for the pike-heads. After the ferrels were put on, it was thought the staves would be too weak to support the pike, they were again cut, and larger ferrels put on. Some hand-grenades were brought there ready made, and some were made in the room. I have seen Davidson and Harrison making them. There was a tin case and some pitch melted in an iron pot, and wound round with nails. They were afterwards carried to Tidd's, which was called the depot.
Q. Who suggested that they should be removed - A. Thistlewood said nothing should be kept in that room, that if any one came into the room it might not give any information of what was going on, and so they were removed to Tidd's.
Q. Do you recollect a meeting on Tuesday morning the 22d - A. Yes, a meeting was held in the same room, about ten o'clock, Thistlewood, Brunt, Ings, and Hall were present, and just after Edwards came in, and stated that there was an account in the paper of a cabinet dinner to be held on the next day, Wednesday, at Lord Harrowby's in Grosvenor-square; in consequence of this Hall fetched the newspaper, by which it appeared the information was true; upon this Brunt said,
"Now, d - n my eyes, I believe there is a God, I have often prayed that these thieves may be collected together, that I might destroy them, and now God has heard my prayer." Ings was equally alive to it. On this Thistlewood proposed
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160051"/>that a committee should sit directly, to alter the plan of assassination that had been agreed to on Sunday, Thistlewood proposed that I should take the chair; I did so, and called to order. Thistlewood was going to speak, I interrupted him, and said,
"Gentlemen, I hope you have given a due consideration to what fell from my mouth on Saturday." That was the communication I had made about Hobbs. On this Brunt and Harrison threatened that the first man that attempted to throw cold water on the proceedings, they would run him through on the spot. On this I opened my coat, and said,
"Harrison, if you think I am not a friend to you, or any man in the room, you may do it now." On this Palin got up, surprised at what I had said. Hall and Potter were in the room. Palin insisted on some explanation being given to what I had said before the business proceeded. Brunt got up and said, he would tell the whole; he communicated to them what I had said, and proposed that Lord Harrowby's should be watched. Davidson was to go on the watch at six o'clock with another, Brunt and Tidd were to relieve them at nine. The prisoners were both in the room at this time. The watch was to see if any police officers or soldiers entered the house, and if so to report to the committee - if none were seen to go in, Brunt insisted that the business should be done that night. This was settled, and Thistlewood proposed that Tidd should take the chair, in consequence of my interruption to the business - he took the chair. Then Thistlewood came forward, and proposed that himself should go to Lord Harrowby's door with a note in his hand for Lord Harrowby, telling the servant he must have an answer; the others were to rush in after him and secure the servants, present pistols at their breasts, and threaten them with instant death if they resisted. They were to take the command of the stairs leading to the bottom and top of the house, and two were to be stationed at the area. These men were each to have a hand-grenade, and if any servants attempted to make their escape, a hand-grenade was to be thrown in among them to destroy them. Ings proposed himself to take the lead in the room, and as soon as he entered he was to address their Lordships by saying,
"Now, my Lords, we have got as good men as the Manchester Yeomanry - enter, Citizens, and do your duty." The two swordsmen were to follow - I was one and Harrison, who had been in the Life Guards, the other; they were to be followed by other men. Ings declared he would cut off every head as he came to them - (he was a butcher.) He proposed also to cut off one of the hands of Lord Castlereagh, and bring it away with the heads of Lords Castlereagh and Sidmouth, and said he would preserve the hand, as it would be thought a good deal of at a future day. Harrison proposed that he himself should go to King-street barracks, and set fire to the shed where the straw and hay are kept.
COURT. Q. Was any further use to be made of the heads - A. Ings proposed that they should exhibit them about on a pole. Thistlewood said the best way would be to put them on a pike-head, and carry them behind the cannon to terrify the people, and make them believe there was something of more consequence than they were aware of. Bradburn said, after Lord Castlereagh's head had been exhibited for two or three days, he would make a box, and send or take it himself to Ireland.
Q. Well, Harrison was to set the barracks on fire - A. Yes, he was to be supported by Wilson - the others were to go to Gray's Inn-lane, and if any persons interrupted them they were to run them through. They were to take the cannon, and then proceed to the Artillery Ground and take the six pieces of cannon, headed by Cook, who was to load them and bring them into the street, and if he was interrupted he was to fire on the people; but if he found himself strong enough by people joining him, he was to proceed to the Mansion House and demand it, and if it was refused he was to fire on both sides. Thistlewood proposed that the Mansion House should be the seat of the Provisional Government.
Q. Cook was not to be of the party at Lord Harrowby's - A. No. After they had got the Mansion House they were to attack the Bank and plunder it, but to preserve the books, as Thistlewood said they would communicate something more than they were aware of. That was all that passed material. Davidson went on the watch at six o'clock. It was proposed that those assembled should go round to the different men to communicate the purpose they had in view. Harrison proposed the word Button should be a countersign. A man was to be stationed at the end of Oxford-street, and the men were to go up to him, and say B.U.T - the man in waiting was to say T.O.N, which would shew they belonged to the party. Davidson and the other man went on watch at six o'clock, Brunt and Tidd set off to go on the watch at nine. Brunt returned in about five minutes, saying Tidd had called at a house where he expected to find a man, and he had met him; that he was a man of too much consequence to be neglected, and Tidd must stop with him, and I must go with Brunt instead of Tidd. I saw Davidson there. We continued on the watch from nine till twelve o'clock - we were not in the square all the time. We went to a public-house in the neighbourhood, at the back of the square, at the corner of the mews. Brunt played at dominos with a man there. We went out about eleven o'clock, and stopped about the square till twelve, and went home directly. We found all quiet.
Q. Do you remember going to Fox-court that afternoon - A. I did. I was going up stairs, and perceived a strange smell. I found Edwards, Ings, and Hall in the room, making the illumination balls - Edwards was making touch-paper for the fusees; Hall was laying paper on the floor to receive the balls, as Ings took them out of the iron pot. I went away almost directly.
Q. Next day (Wednesday) you did not go very early to the room - A. No, I went about two o'clock, and found Brunt in his own room. Strange came in alone, and afterwards two or three others whom I did not know. Some pistols lay on or in the drawers; they were endeavouring to fix the flints to them. On the last two coming in Brunt proposed that they should go into the other room, which they did, and I went also. Ings came in in the course of the afternoon. The different persons were busy in fixing flints to the pistols and slings to the cutlasses. Thistlewood came into the room, looked round, and said,
"This looks something like, as if you were going to work." He clapped his hand upon my shoulder, and asked how I did? I said I was very unwell, and very low in spirits - he sent for something to drink. Shortly
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160052"/>after this Thistlewood proposed that paper should be sent for, as he wanted to draw up some bills. He said he wanted such paper as newspapers were printed on, but he did not know the name. I proposed to send for cartridge-paper. Thistlewood gave Brunt the money, and he said his apprentice or boy should fetch it - he went out for the purpose. The cartridge-paper was fetched, a table and chair were brought out of Brunt's room, and Thistlewood sat down and wrote these words: -
"Your tyrants are destroyed; the friends of liberty are invited to come forward; the Provisional Government is now sitting. -
<persName id="t18200416-1-person213"> James Ings
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person213" type="surname" value="Ings"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person213" type="given" value="James"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person213" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , Secretary. Feb. 23, 1820." As he wrote the third bill he appeared much agitated, said he could write no more, and proposed that Hall should take the pen, he refused - another strange man was proposed, who afterwards took it. The bills were to be stuck up near the different buildings that were to be set on fire, to communicate to the public what had been done.
Q. When the bills were wrote what was done - A. Ings equipped himself; he put a black belt round his loins, another round his shoulder, and a couple of bags like soldiers' haversacks, under his great-coat. The belt round his loins was to contain a brace of pistols, and the other the cutlass. On viewing himself he found he had not got his steel. He had a large knife, with wax-end round the handle. He was asked what it was for? he said it was wound round to prevent his hand from slipping at the time he was cutting their heads off - he said he prepared it for that purpose. About this time Bradburn came up, and wished Thistlewood to send some person to the men he had collected together, to send them to the spot where they were to meet Tidd, as appointed; he was not willing to go, and said as they were Irishmen he thought one of their own country would be better than an Englishman; he at last consented. Brunt and Thistlewood left the room. Palin came in, and seeing they were out of the room he said,
"Gentlemen, I hope you all know what you have met here for, and hope you will consider, and ask yourselves whether the assassination of ministers will be a matter of consequence to the country, if so you ought to come to the determination to stick true to each other, and that man that shews the least sign of cowardice ought to be run through on the spot." A tall man in the room said,
"I pretty well see the meaning of this speech, but you speak as if every one knew what we are met here for - that is what some of us wish to know. I, for my own part, am not afraid of myself, nor ought any man to be afraid of his life who turns out in such a thing as this. I am the first to run that man through who is afraid." On this Brunt came in, and perceiving an alteration in the countenances of those in the room, he wished to know the cause, and was told that some in the room wished to know what they were met there for. Brunt said,
"This is not the room where you will be informed; go with me to the room in Edgware-road, and I will tell you; and every man that goes with me I will take care to treat them with something to drink to put them in spirits." The tall man said,
"I hope nobody is going to get drunk, for a man doing so runs himself into the hands of his enemies." Brunt then began to make a move to go, saying that Palin wanted that room for his men to come to.
Prisoner DAVIDSON. Q. Was I at the meeting in Fox-court - A. I never said he was. He was not there that afternoon.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. Was he frequently at the meetings which took place previous to the 23d of February - A. He was at several, and was there on Sunday when the committee sat, and arranged the plan. The first knowledge I had of him was on the 10th of January, before I went to prison.
Q. After this took place did you go up Oxford-street - A. I did, and met Thistlewood in the Edgware-road; Brunt and another man were with me at the time - we all went together to the stable. On going in I saw Davidson sitting and Wilson standing in the stable, apparently doing something to the pikes. I went up to the loft, and found six or seven men assembled when I first went in; there might be more; on a carpenter's bench in the room there were pistols and cutlasses - more men came in in the course of the evening. Thistlewood counted them, and made eighteen in the room, and two below, but there appeared to be more. On my going into the room I had a blunderbuss, which I laid on the bench, and a broomstick, which had been prepared for the reception of a bayonet for Brunt - he was in the loft; Tidd was not there then. Thistlewood and Brunt were talking together, and Thistlewood appeared rather agitated, fearing Tidd would not come. On Brunt and Ings perceiving an alteration in the countenances of the men, Ings began to stamp and swear, saying he hoped they would not think of dropping it, for if they did he should cut his throat or kill himself. Brunt turned round, and said he would venture his life that Tidd would come, he was confident of it; shortly after Tidd came into the room, and I saw him talking to Thistlewood - they both appeared agitated. Tidd saw me looking at them, and came to me; I said to him,
"Tidd, don't you think this is a pretty set out? do you think it possible for these men to do what is talked of?" He said No, it was impossible. Thistlewood addressed the men in the room, saying,
"I hope for God's sake you will not think of dropping the concern now, for if you do it will turn out a second Despard job. There are quite enough in the room, and you think there is not strength enough; suppose Lord Harrowby has sixteen men-servants in the house, they are not prepared and we are; from going into the house to coming out will not be more than ten minutes" - he said fourteen men would be enough to go into the room, and fourteen men were picked out and separated from the rest, to go into the room to do the murder. The other six were to secure the servants at the stairs and area.
Q. When the fourteen men were separated was any thing said - A. The men stood where they were, and Brunt introduced a gin-bottle.
Q. Who were the men that were separated to go into the room - A. Thistlewood, Ings, Brunt, Hall, Wilson, Bradburn, and some others. Davidson was proposed, but he was below stairs. They were separated to a different part of the room.
COURT. Q. Did Thistlewood make any address to them - A. Before Thistlewood spoke Brunt said,
"You seem to think there are not enough, if there are only eight or nine men I myself will go, and if there are only five or six I will go, for we have things here which some of you do
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160053"/>not know of, that will blow the house up, and if I go, and find myself in danger I will clap fire to it, and blow them all up.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. You heard a noise below - A. Yes, a kind of a bustle, and directly after, at the bottom of the ladder, I heard a cry of,
"Halloo! shew a light." Thistlewood took a candle from the bench, and looked down, turned round, sat the candle on the bench again, and then began to sidle into the little room. The officers came up the ladder, took command of the room, and presented a pistol. Smithers was killed, the lights were put out, and I escaped.
Q. Was Tidd in the room when the fourteen men were picked out - A. He was, but I am pretty well sure he was not one that was to go into the room; he was in the room when Thistlewood proposed that they should go on with the measure, and when Brunt made the speech I have stated.
Q. Was Brunt's speech after you made the observation to Tidd about accomplishing the plan - A. Yes, and Thistlewood spoke after - Tidd continued in the room. I was apprehended on the 25th, and when I went home I did not leave my room until I was taken out by the officer. I was examined at Whitehall with the others.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. As some of the Jury have not heard you before, just tell us whether among other virtues, at the age of forty-five, you renounced Christianity - A. Yes; I call myself a Christian now. I came back to that belief about the 24th, but I was convinced of its truth before.
Q. The fear of the halter brought you to this belief - A. It might have had some effect. I have had communication with nobody since I was here last; I never joined any political society before this. I consented to be introduced to Thistlewood ten days after the assassination was proposed to me, and attended the meetings till the 23d of February.
Q. You was once chairman of the committee of assassination - A. Yes. The twelve that met on Sunday were regular committee-men, except Cook. That was the first time that the committee met; the largest number that ever met was in Cato-street. There was a talk of a vast number more. I could bring none forward.
Q. Were not the same party that were to go to Lord Harrowby's to seize the cannon - A. They were to proceed from there to Gray's Inn-lane to Cook; Palin and others were to fire the town. The three bills that were written received the approbation of all in the room - I do not know who was to stick them up.
Q. Do you know
<persName id="t18200416-1-person214"> Thomas Chambers
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person214" type="surname" value="Chambers"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person214" type="given" value="Thomas"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person214" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> - A. I do not - I do not know that I was acquainted with him. I never wanted him to join in killing His Majesty's Ministers, nor did I ever tell him I would have blood and wine for supper - I positively deny it.
Q. On the night of the 23d did you and Edwards call on that man, and desire to leave some arms with him - A. I did not - I swear it.
Q. You have omitted to state about messengers being sent to the sea ports to prevent any gentleman leaving the country - A. That was mentioned; Brighton in particular was to be plundered if they did not obey the order. I do not know where the force was to come from; it was expected that the people would come over to them. My object was purposely to search into the principles of Brunt.
Q. And so you joined in a plot to murder sixteen ministers individualy, to fire a great city, and to overturn an empire - A. No number of men were mentioned.
Q. Did not Tidd tell you in the loft that he had been deceived in what was to be done, and finding what it was he determined to have nothing to do with it - A. No, he did not; all that he said was,
"No, I think it cannot be done."
Q. Was Davidson armed in Cato-street - A. I have not said he was - I do not recollect seeing him armed. I saw him in the stable and loft.
Q. If he had been armed you must have noticed it - A. If he had them about him so as to be visible. When the officers came up the principal part of the arms were on the bench.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. Do you remember any person bringing any bullets to the room - A. Yes, Davidson; he stated the number to be about five hundred. This was on Tuesday morning - he had a hand-saw in his hand.
Q. What led you to disbelieve the Christian religion - A. The works of Paine, which Tidd himself put into my hands. Neither Palin, Potter, or Cook were in Cato-street. Palin and Cook had parties of their own.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person215"> ELEANOR WALKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person215" type="surname" value="WALKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person215" type="given" value="ELEANOR"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person215" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am niece and servant to Mrs. Rogers. No. 4, Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane. Brunt lodged there, and occupied the two front rooms on the second floor. In January last he introduced Ings to take the back room on the same floor, at 3 s. a week, unfurnished: he did not say who or what Ings was. Ings said he should bring his goods in in about a week, but never did.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person216"> MARY ROGERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person216" type="surname" value="ROGERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person216" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person216" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . In January last I understood by niece let the two-pair back room to Ings; he occupied it four or five weeks, paid for four weeks, and left one unpaid. I asked Brunt what Ings was, he said he was a butcher, and that he knew nothing more of him than seeing him at a public-house, and hearing him enquire for a lodging. He never brought any furniture in. I remember on one evening while he occupied it, seeing three men go up stairs - the middle man was a black one.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person217"> JOSEPH HALE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person217" type="surname" value="HALE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person217" type="given" value="JOSEPH"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person217" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I was apprenticed to Brunt, who has been tried. I lived with him in Fox-court - he had two front rooms; he lived in one, and worked in the other, where I slept. The back room on the same floor was looked at by him and Ings in January; I heard my master say to Ings,
"It will do, go down and give them a 1 s." Ings went down. I had known him before; the first time I saw him was a fortnight before, he was in Brunt's workshop with Thistlewood. I do not remember seeing him above twice before he took the room.
Q. The same evening that he took the room did you see him there - A. Yes, he came with Hall, and asked Mrs. Brunt for the key; she gave it to him, and they went into the room. I believe more persons came that night; from this time until the 24th of February, when my master was taken up, meetings were held at the rooms - they were mostly held about seven o'clock in the evening.
Q. Give us the names of the persons you have seen
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160054"/>there - A. Thistlewood, Ings, Davidson, Brunt, Bradburn, Adams, Strange, Palin, Hall, Edwards and Tidd. I knew Tidd before he attended the meetings, he used to come to my master. I was once at his lodgings in Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market.
Q. On any occasion when you passed the room, was the door open - A. Yes, and I saw about twenty long poles like the branches of trees, cut rough as they came from the trees. I have heard hammering and sawing going on in the room.
Q. On the Sunday before your master was taken up, was there a meeting there - A. Yes, in the morning, it was larger than usual - the persons I have named were all there. Tidd and Davidson were there. They went away one or two at a time. My master was in the room with them. When the meeting broke up Strange came into my master's room with him. Meetings were held on the Monday and Tuesday.
Q. Do you remember any persons being there on Wednesday about two o'clock - A. Yes, Strange, and a person whom I do not know; they came into the workshop, and were flinting five or six pistols, the stranger observed that persons on the opposite side of the way were looking at them, and Brunt told them to go into the back room - they did so. There were several persons there in the course of the afternoon. Thistlewood came out and asked me for a piece of writing-paper, which I gave him, and he went into the back room with it. After that Brunt told me to go and fetch six sheets of cartridge-paper, which I did, and gave it to him - he took it into the back room. This was on Wednesday.
Q. What time did your master go out - A. About six o'clock. After that my mistress wanted the table, I went and knocked at the back room door for it - Potter opened the door and gave it to me. After that Tidd called, and came into Mrs. Brunt's room, she showed him a pike-head and a sword which remained in one of the cupboards; he said if she would give them to him he would take them away - he took them into the back room. I then heard persons go down from the back room. After that a person came into the front room to my mistress, and told her if any person came she must send them to the White Hart, close by. Shortly after three persons did call - they did not know the way and I showed them. I returned, Potter came to the door with some persons, I directed them there, but did not go with them, as they knew the way. My master came home about nine o'clock, the tail of his coat and his boots were very muddy. He told his wife it was all up, or words to that effect; he appeared confused, said he had saved his life, and that was all. A man came in whom I did not know, Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had informed - the man said he did not know: from their manner of speaking, they appeared to have been together. The man said he had received a dreadful blow on the side, and was knocked down. My master said something more was to be done, and both went out together. Mrs. Brunt and I went into the back room, and saw in one of the cupboards a lot of rolls of brown paper with tar in them, and four large balls, about as big as my two fists, made of string tarred. I have since heard them called hand-grenades. There were also some flannel bags, two of them full of something, some cartridge-paper, and an iron pot, which belonged to Brunt - we left them there. My master came home about eleven o'clock and ordered me to get up soon in the morning and clean his boots - I did so. He then asked me if I knew the Borough - I told him Yes. He then asked me if I knew Snow's Fields - I said No. He told me to go to Kirby-street, Snow's Fields, to Potter's, and said I must take the things that were in the back room there; he took me into the back room, we took two rush baskets with us - he told me to put the things into them out of the cupboard - I did so. He tied one of the baskets in a blue apron of Mrs. Brunt's, which had been used as a curtain to the back room. My master went into his own room to look for something to tie the other in, when two officers came in and took him into custody. They took the two baskets and the iron pot. They sometimes called Thistlewood Arthur, and sometimes T. The others were called by their own names.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Did you know Dwyer - A. No; I knew Edwards - he and Adams were frequently there. They sometimes called Thistlewood by his surname. Edwards was oftener there than Adams.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person218"> THOMAS SMART
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person218" type="surname" value="SMART"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person218" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person218" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a watchman. On the 23d of February I was watching in Grosvenor-square, about half-past eight o'clock, and saw four men, who created my suspicion - they were looking through the palisades by Mr. Maberly's house - they were looking about; I went up to see what they wanted. They asked me what o'clock it was? I said it was near nine. One of them was a man of colour. I called Bissex to notice them.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person219"> CHARLES BISSEX
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person219" type="surname" value="BISSEX"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person219" type="given" value="CHARLES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person219" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am one of the watchmen of Grosvenor-square. On the 22d of February I was with Smart, and saw two men there, which created my suspicion; they passed us, and asked what time it was - I told them it was very near nine. They took particular notice of the houses in the square, and of Lord Harrowby's. One was a man of colour; he had a stick in his hand longer than is carried by persons in common.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person220"> HENRY GILLON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person220" type="surname" value="GILLON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person220" type="given" value="HENRY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person220" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Mount-street, Berkley-square. I frequent the Rising Sun public-house, and was there on the 22d of February. It is at the corner of Adams'mews. Between nine and ten o'clock at night, Adams and Brunt came in, I played two games of dominos with Brunt. They had some bread, cheese, and beer. I left them there about ten o'clock.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person221"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person221" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person221" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person221" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am journeyman to Mr. Underwood, a cutler in Drury-lane. On Christmas Eve Ings brought a sword and wished it to be ground sharp from heel to point, also the back to be ground sharp. It was done for him. He fetched it away; and afterwards brought another, and told me to do it the same way.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person222"> EDWARD SIMPSON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person222" type="surname" value="SIMPSON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person222" type="given" value="EDWARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person222" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am corporal-major in the second Life Guards. Harrison was in that regiment five years, and more, his duty would make him acquainted with King-street barracks. There were five windows looking from the hay-loft into Gloucester-mews, they have been stopped up since this affair. A fire-ball could be thrown into the window. One window is opposite where the straw was lodged. There were two or three loads there at the time.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person223"> JOHN ALDOUS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person223" type="surname" value="ALDOUS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person223" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person223" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a pawnbroker. I knew Davidson two or three years. He pledged a brass barrelled blunderbuss
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160055"/>with me, and redeemed it on the 23d of February, in the morning. I have seen it since in possession of Ruthven.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person224"> JOHN MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person224" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person224" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person224" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a prisoner in the Tower. I am a shoemaker, and lived in Garden-court, Baldwin's-gardens, near Brooks-market. About three months before the 23d of February, I saw Thistlewood at the house of one Ford. About a fortnight or three weeks after he and Brunt called on me, my brother and mother were in the room. In a short time Thistlewood said he wished to speak to me. I went out of the room with him, leaving Brunt in the room with my brother. He said great events were at hand, the people were everywhere anxious for a change; that he had been promised support by a great many who had deceived him, but now he had men who would stand by him. And asked if I had any arms. I said no. He said
"You should have arms, all of us have arms; some have a sabre, some a pike, and some a pistol;" and that I could get a pistol for four or five shillings. I said I had no money to buy pistols. He said he would see what he could do. He said the person that he had with him was of the same business with me, and lived in Fox-court, Gray's Inn-lane. We returned to the room. He and Brunt shortly after went away. I lit them down stairs, and in going down Brunt told me his name was Brunt, and he lived at No. 4, Fox-court.
Q. On the 22d (Tuesday) did Brunt call on you - A. He did in company with Tidd. My brother was present. I said to Brunt
"I thought I had lost you." He said the death of the King had altered their plans. I asked what plans? He said there was to be a meeting on the following evening at Tyburn-turnpike, where I should hear all about it. He then looked at Tidd, and asked if he should give me the word. Tidd said yes; he supposed there was no danger. On which Brunt said, when I got there if I saw any people about I should say to them B. U. T. and if they were friends they would answer T. O. N. He said he should be at our house next morning to tell me all about it, and what time it was to take place. They went away, leaving me and my brother in the room.
Q. Next day did he call - A. He called alone about half-past four in the afternoon, called me down stairs, and said he wanted me to go in half an hour. I said I could not as I had some work to finish, and it would be done about six o'clock. He said he could not wait so long, and I must go with the man he called with before. He told me his name was Tidd, and that he lived in Hole in the Wall-passage, Brooks-market. I left him with an impression on his mind that I should go. I went to Tidd's about half-past six o'clock, and found him at home. He said he was waiting for some more men to go with him, and if none came before seven o'clock he would wait no longer. Nobody came. I asked him where we were going, he said to the mews in Edgware-road. He went to a box in the corner of the room, took a pistol out, and put it into a belt which was round his body. He also wrapped six or eight pike-heads in a piece of brown paper. I did not particularly look at them; they seemed to me to be three-square, like a bayonet. He then took a staff with a hole at the end of it, as if to put a pike-head in. We went into Holborn up Oxford-street. As we were going along, I asked him what we were going to do? He said I should know when I got there. I asked if we were going to the House of Commons. He said there were too many soldiers near there. I asked again where we were going. He said to Grosvenor-square, and that there was going to to be a cabinet-dinner. I then understood what he meant and did not ask him any more. When we came to the archway leading to Cato-street, two men stood there. Tidd was a few yards before me, and spoke to them. We passed them and went into a stable, three or four men were there. At the end of the stable is a ladder. I went up after Tidd, there were twenty-two or twenty-three persons in the room, and a carpenter's bench, with swords and pistols. Thistlewood was there. A man in a brown coat, who was sitting on a little bench by the side of the carpenter's bench, was speaking of the impropriety of going to Lord Harrowby's with so small a number of men. Somebody had asked Thistlewood how many men there were. He said there was no occasion to count them as there were twenty-five. I saw Davidson in the loft after I got there. I had seen him before at one or two public meetings in Smithfield. I am sure of his person. I never heard him speak at a public meeting. I saw him the day we were taken to the Tower.
Q. Well, the man in the great coat spoke of the impropriety of going to Lord Harrowby's - A. Yes; Thistlewood said he only wanted fourteen men to go into the room; and supposing Lord Harrowby had eighteen men servants, that number was quite sufficient. Then the man in the brown coat said,
"When we come out of the house of course there will be a crowd about the door, how shall we get away?" Thistlewood said
"You know the largest party is already gone." On which Davidson told the man in the great coat not to throw cold water on their proceedings, for if he was afraid of his life he might go, for they could do without him. Brunt said sooner than they should go from the business he would go into the room by himself and blow them all up, if he perished with them; and said
"You know we have got that which will do it." The man then said as they all seemed for it he would not be against it, and proposed all persons should put themselves under the orders of Thistlewood; and Thistlewood said, every one engaged in the business should share the same honour as himself. Thistlewood proposed that fourteen persons should volunteer from those in the room, and place themselves on one side of the room. Twelve or thirteen then separated from the rest. Tidd, Brunt, Davidson, and Wilson, were among them. Thistlewood went down, came up again, and said he had received intelligence that Lord Wellington and Lord Sidmouth had arrived at Lord Harrowby's. Soon after I heard a noise, and saw three officers at the top of the stairs. They said they were officers, and told them to surrender. I was taken into custody in the room. One of the officers was killed.
Q. You was examined at Whitehall - A. Yes; twice. Both times that I went I was handcuffed to Thistlewood. He said if I was asked who it was that led me into it and took me to the meetings, I was to say it was a man of the name of Edwards. I said
"How can I tell such a falsehood, when you know I never saw the man in my life?" He said that was of no consequence, for if I was asked what sort of a man he was I was to say he was not much taller than
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160056"/>myself, of a sallow complexion, and dressed in a brown great-coat.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. You joined in a plan to assassinate his Majesty's ministers - A. Unwillingly; I consented to it through fear - I was afraid if I did not go it would be worse for me, for when Brunt called in on the 23d he said if any one was in any way concerned with them, and did not go, he should be destroyed. I knew nothing of their schemes or plans. I have told all I know.
Q. When you were in the loft did not Tidd tell you he was deceived, and persuaded you to leave the party - A. No; I wish, for his own sake as well as mine, he had.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person225"> THOMAS MONUMENT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person225" type="surname" value="MONUMENT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person225" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person225" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am brother of the last witness. I am a shoemaker, and lived with my brother. I remember Thistlewood and Brunt calling; Thistlewood asked to speak with my brother, they went out of the room together, were absent a short time, and then returned to the room. Brunt and Thistlewood went away together. On the 22d of February Brunt called with Tidd; my brother said
"I thought I had lost you!" Brunt said the death of the King had made an alteration in their plans - my brother asked what plans? he said they had different objects in view. Brunt asked Thistlewood if he should give him the outline of the plan? I did not hear the answer, but Brunt said we were to meet the following evening at Tyburn turnpike, and gave us the pass-word. We were to say B. U. T. and if the people were friends they would answer T. O. N. Brunt said he should call next day, which he did between four and five o'clock in the afternoon - my brother could not go with him. Brunt said then he must call on Tidd at Hole in the Wall-passage, and he would take him. My brother went out before seven o'clock, and I did not see him again.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person226"> THOMAS HIDEN
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person226" type="surname" value="HIDEN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person226" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person226" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I have carried on business as a cow-keeper and dairy-man, in Manchester-mews. I was imprisoned for debt a week ago last Saturday. I knew the prisoner Wilson, perfectly well. A few days before the 23d of February he asked me to be one of a party to assassinate his Majesty's ministers at a cabinet dinner - he said they were waiting for a cabinet dinner, and had got every thing ready, and that they had got such things as I never saw; that they were bound round with tarpaulin, and filled full of iron and other things; made of tin, and that they were very strong, and if set fire to they would leave up the walls of the houses in the street in which we were walking. They were to be lit with a fusee, and put into the room where the gentlemen were at dinner, and all that escaped the explosion were to die by the edge of the sword, or some other weapon. After that they were going to set fire to the houses of Lords Harrowby, Castlereagh, and Sidmonth, the Duke of Wellington, and the Bishop of London, and one more, which I do not recollect, and by so doing, he said, it would keep the town in confusion till the thing became general. I asked him how many there were going to be? He said I had no occasion to be afraid, for a gentleman's servant had supplied them with money, and if they would act on the subject, he would give them a considerable sum more. I said I would be one.
Q. After you told him that did you write a letter to Lord Castlereagh - A. I did, and went to his house two or three times but did not see him. After that I watched Lord Harrowby from his house to the Park, and gave him the letter I wrote to Lord Castlereagh - this is the very letter - (looking at it.) I saw his Lordship next day in Hyde Park by appointment, and on the following day (Wednesday, the 23d.) I saw Wilson again between four and five o'clock in the afternoon - I met him as I was walking up Manchester-street. He said,
"You are the very man I wanted to see." I said,
"What is there going to be?" he said,
"There is a cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby's, in Grosvenor-square, to-night." I asked him where I was to come? he said I was to come to a public-house, the Horse and Groom, in Cato-street, or to stop at the corner by the post till I was shewn into the stable close by. I was to meet them at a quarter before six or at six. I asked him if that was all that was going to be? He said there would be four parties; one in Cato-street, another in Gray's Inn-lane, one in the City, or Gee's-court, I am not certain which, and one in the Borough. He said I had no occasion to be alarmed, for all Gee's-court were in it - (I believe that court is chiefly inhabited by Irishmen.) He said the Irishmen were all in it, but they would not act till the English began, as the English had so many times deceived them. He said there were two pieces of cannon in Gray's Inn-lane, that were easily to be got at by breaking in at a small door. He said a party were to go to Lord Harrowby's house in Grosvenor-square, to do the grand thing, which was to destroy all the cabinet ministers, and that there were four more pieces of cannon in some Artillery Ground, which were easily got at by killing the sentry; and that after the grand thing was over, all parties were to meet at the Mansion House, and said I was to be sure and come early, or the grand thing would be over before I came.
Q. Did you go to John-street that evening - A. I did, between six and seven o'clock - I think it was near seven. When I got into John-street, at the corner by the post, I saw Wilson and Davidson, the man of colour, whom I had known a long time before. Davidson said,
"You are come!" I said, Yes, I was, but I was behind my time. He asked me if I was going in, for Thistlewood was there? I told him I could not go in, as I had some cream to get, and must get it if possible. I left him, and did not go in.
COURT. Q. Did you ask them what time they should go from there - A. Yes; they said about eight o'clock, and if they were gone from there, I was to follow them into Grosvenor-square, to the fourth house from the corner, and there I should find them. Davidson said,
"Come, you dog, come! it will be the best thing you ever was in in your life" - these were his very words.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. I dare say you expected a good deal of plunder, did you not - A. No, I did not intend to go. I have seen Wilson very often at my friend's, Mr. Clark, and one evening Davidson came in and said,
"Hiden, you don't come forward like the rest of the men to support the meetings." I said,
"No, I don't, for my business prevents me." (I have often been denied to them when I was at home.) He told me that the men who had promised to support the cause and did not, would be the first they would murder; and when I met Wilson I told him I would come forward, for my own safety.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160057"/>Q. You kept away from them as much as you could - A. I did. I never went near them, except twice, which was at the Shoemakers' Club. I knew nothing of their intent, except from what Wilson told me. He told me nothing but what I have stated.
Q. Last time you admitted that you knew Bennet - A. I did. I never did ask him to attend a private Radical meeting.
Q. Did you not tell him he might speak or not speak, just as he liked - A. I believe I did.
Q. I thought you never invited him - A. I never said a Radical meeting. I said nothing to him about being called on to take up arms, to the best of my recollection. I do not think it possible that I could say so.
MR. GURNEY. Q. You had been to the Shoemakers' Club - A. Yes, twice with Mr. Clark, who had lived in the same house with me. I saw Davidson, Wilson, and Harrison there. It was held at the Scotch Arms, in some court in the Strand - it was on a Sunday evening - Clark asked me to go. I said I supposed Bennet would go, and another man whom I had seen with him. This was four, five, or six months ago.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person227"> JOHN BAKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person227" type="surname" value="BAKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person227" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person227" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am butler to the Earl of Harrowby. On the 18th and 19th of February I issued cards of invitation for a cabinet dinner on the Wednesday following - this was the first dinner after the death of the late King; they had been suspended on that account. On the 23d of February the preparations went on for the dinner till after the regular dinner hour, which was seven o'clock. About eight the dinner was countermanded by a note from his Lordship. The Archbishop of York lives next door. Carriages were taking up and setting down there between six and seven o'clock.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person228"> RICHARD MUNDAY
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person228" type="surname" value="MUNDAY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person228" type="given" value="RICHARD"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person228" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 3, Cato-street. On the 23d of February, in the afternoon, I saw Davidson walking to and fro under the gateway; I afterwards saw him again in the evening, go in and light a candle at a shop, about a quarter past six o'clock. I saw him go to the stable-door, push it open, and go in - Harrison was at the door at the time. Davidson's coat flew open, and I saw two pistols, a cross-belt on each side of him, and a belt round his body. As he stooped down a sword appeared to stick out. The pistols hung on his left side. In the afternoon I saw a person nailing canvas or sacking over the railing of the door, I thought it was to keep the place warm - it would prevent any one from seeing into it. The stable had been empty since Christmas. I saw three persons go in, and one come out, in the afternoon, as I was passing to and fro.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person229"> GEORGE CAYLOCK
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person229" type="surname" value="CAYLOCK"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person229" type="given" value="GEORGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person229" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live in Cato-street. On the 23d of February, in the afternoon, I saw Harrison in Cato-street; I knew him before. I saw him go into the stable - he said he had taken two chambers there, and was going to clean them up. I saw from twenty to twenty-three people going in in the course of the evening.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN. I am a Bow-street officer. On the 23d of February I went to Cato-street; I got there at six o'clock. I went into the Horse and Groom, and saw Cooper and Gilchrist there. Cooper had a mop or broomstick, which he left there. Gilchrist came back for it, but did not get it - I have it here. At the end of it is a place cut, as if to receive the socket of something. I went to the stable, Ellis, Smithers, and others were with me. On entering the stable I observed a man with a gun on his shoulder and a sword by his side, with cross-belts - I do not know who he was. I went up the ladder into the loft, and found from twenty to twenty-five men, with arms on a bench, and heard the clashing of arms. I said,
"We are officers, seize their arms!" Thistlewood stood on the right-hand side of the bench; he
<persName id="t18200416-1-person230">drew</persName> a sword from the bench, retreated into a little room, and stood fencing with it, endeavouring to keep any one away who approached him. Smithers advanced towards Thistlewood, and he stabbed him - he fell dead immediately after. A pistol was fired, I do not know whether by our party or not - the lights were put out. I heard a voice from the corner of the room where Thistlewood had stood, say,
"Kill the b - g - rs! throw them down stairs!" I joined in their cry, and got down into John-street, met the soldiers, and returned with Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person231">Fitzclarence</persName> , and saw Tidd endeavouring to get away from the stable-door. I told somebody to lay hold of him - he lifted his hand, and I then saw a pistol. I then laid hold of him, twisted him round, and fell on a dunghill struggling with him. The soldiers came up, and his pistol went off.
COURT. Q. Did it go off while it was in his hand - A. I am not certain - he was secured. I took him to a public-house, searched him, and found a leather belt round his waist, and two ball-cartridges in his pocket. Before I had finished searching him Bradburn was brought in; I searched him, and found a string twisted four or five times round his waist, three or four loose cartridges, and six loose balls in his coat-pocket. Wilson and Davidson were also brought in; I did not search them. Davidson swore, and said,
"D - n the man who would not die in Liberty's cause, I glory in it," and sung part of
"Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled." Wilson said he knew it was all up, and he did not care a d - n, they might knock him on the head now. I returned to the loft; several soldiers were there, with four of the prisoners, Strange, Cooper, Gilchrist, and Monument. I found two swords and some pistols there, a gun or two in the loft, also ten hand-grenades in a bag, one large one, and two fire-balls - they are here.
Prisoner TIDD. Q. On searching me you found nothing, and said,
"D - n me, here is nothing but a tobacco box!" - A. No, I did not.
THE RIGHT HON. THE EARL OF HARROWBY. I am one of his Majesty's Privy Council, and one of his Majesty's Ministers. Cards were issued for a cabinet dinner on the 23d of February, by my order; they were issued on the preceding week. (Here his Lordship enumerated the different personages composing the cabinet, with their offices). They form his Majesty's Council; there are fifteen men in all. In consequence of his late Majesty's death the dinners were suspended for some time.
Q. Does your Lordship remember, the day preceding the dinner, riding in the Park. - A. Yes, and saw Hiden near Grosvenor Gate; he accosted me, and gave me a letter - this is it - (looking at it) - it is directed to Lord Castlereagh. He said it contained matters of great importance to his Lordship as well as myself, and desired
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160058"/>that I would send it to Lord Castlereagh; he expressed a wish to have some further conversation with me. I asked him if his name and address were in the letter? he said, No, and gave me a card with his name and address. When I knew what the contents of the letter were I appointed to meet him on the following day in Hyde Park, and met him in the young plantations near the Regency. I appointed that spot as a private place, as he appeared extremely apprehensive of being seen in my company when I saw him the day before.
Q. Did the dinner take place at your Lordship's house - A. It did not, but the preparations went on, till they were discontinued in consequence of a note which I wrote from Lord Liverpool's, about seven o'clock; it must have reached my house about eight. That was the first intimation I gave of its not taking place.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person232"> JAMES ELLIS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person232" type="surname" value="ELLIS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person232" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person232" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a conductor of the patrol of Bow-street. I went to Cato-street on the 23d of February last, with Ruthven; I went into a stable there, as near as I can guess, about half-past eight o'clock. On entering the stable I observed Davidson, I believe, between the foot of the ladder and the stable door. He had a carbine in his right hand, and on his left side a sword - he appeared as if he had been walking sentry; he had white cross belts on. There was another person in the further stall, nearest to the ladder, but I cannot say who it was - it was a short man in a dark coat.
Q. You say you believe it was Davidson, did you observe him - A. I did, I turned him half round, and observed that he was a man of colour. I took him into custody about five or six minutes after; he was in the same dress exactly as when I saw him in the stable. He had a carbine and sword when I apprehended him.
Q. Did you go up the ladder - A. I followed Ruthven up, and when I got up to the loft I observed a number of people retreating to the back of the room - there were twenty-four or twenty-five persons - three of them attempted to enter the little room, and as I went up Thistlewood brandished his sword at me, and was advancing towards me, when I desired him to desist or I would fire, at the same time holding up my pistol in one hand and my staff in the other; he retreated just beyond the door of the little room. Smithers immediately followed me, and on gaining the top of the ladder he attempted to enter the little room; at that moment Thistlewood stabbed him in or near his right breast. His hands went up, his head fell back, and he exclaimed
"Oh my God!" staggered against me, and fell - I immediately fired at Thistlewood, but without effect. A general rush and confusion took place, in which I was pushed down the ladder into the stable, and at the doorway a few shots were fired by persons in the stable, but they passed me; another was fired by a tall man in a dark coat, at some person apparently at the corner of the stable. I attempted to go outside the door; some shots were fired from the window of the little room towards the door of the stable - the window was not immediately over the stable door. At that time I heard the cry of Stop him! and observed Davidson running along in a direction from the stable towards Queen-street. I pursued, came up with him, and took him by the collar; he made a cut at me but without effect. Hill and another came up, and assisted me in disarming him - he made no resistance afterwards - he had a carbine and cross belts on then. I left him in custody, and assisted in securing three or four more in the stable.
Q. Did you take him into a public-house - A. I took him into a private house first, but he was afterwards taken to a public-house.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person233"> ROBERT CHAMPION
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person233" type="surname" value="CHAMPION"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person233" type="given" value="ROBERT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person233" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol, and went to Cato-street on the 23d of February. I, and Lee the patrol, were at the Horse and Groom, public-house, and saw three men come in, they were Davidson, Cooper, and another whom I cannot identify, but I believe it to be Gilchrist; they stood observing us over the railings for sometime - we were on the threshold of the door. Two of them passed us and went into the public-house; they were Cooper and the other man whom I believe to be Gilchrist - Davidson had a dark great coat on, which covered him all over. We passed on to Molineux-street, and observed them going backwards and forwards, and going into the stable. As Cooper passed us at the public-house door he said he should go in and have some beer - he looked me full in the face. I afterwards went round to Queen-street, which is at the end of Cato-street, and heard the report of a pistol. I ran up Cato-street - persons were running very fast out of the stable, and there was firing; two men were running away, and I pursued them. I heard a piece go off, turned round, and somebody cried out Stop him! I observed a man running down the street with his hand up, and I went to lay hold of him, but he struck at me with a sword and stumbled. Ellis came up, collared him, and I seized him; he had a carbine also - it was Davidson; he had no great coat on then. I handcuffed and searched him; he had two cross-belts on, and one round his waist. I found two pistol-flints in his pocket.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did you go into any public-house with him - A. No, I kept him in my custody till I took him to the stable; I believe he had the carbine when I took him. Ellis came up, struck him, and I believe took it out of his hand, but I cannot say.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Q. You took him into a chandler's shop, then back to the stable, into the loft, and there you gave him up - A. Yes, but what became of him afterwards I do not know.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person234"> WILLIAM LEE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person234" type="surname" value="LEE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person234" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person234" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. On Wednesday evening, the 23d of February, about half past six o'clock, I went with Champion, and saw Davidson, Wilson, Gilchrist, and Harrison; after waiting there some time I walked away. Thistlewood followed me and spoke to me - he looked me in the face. I said it was very rude to look us in the face. Champion said he supposed the gentleman thought he knew us. Thistlewood said,
"Oh! it is a mistake," and turned off towards Cato-street; we had been sent first as officers less known. I afterwards went round, and came to Cato-street, then saw Davidson leave the stable, and come to the corner - Gilchrist and Cooper were under the gateway then, and Harrison came up to them soon after.
Q. At half-past eight o'clock did you and Ellis enter the stable with a party - A. Yes. Ruthven, Ellis, and two or three more went up the ladder. The lights were put out, there was a great confusion, and we came down - several shots were fired down the ladder. I left the stable
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160059"/>by Ruthven's order, and stopped under the gateway; shortly after the military came up - some shots had been fired from the window of the loft. The soldiers entered the stable.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person235"> BENJAMIN GILL
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person235" type="surname" value="GILL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person235" type="given" value="BENJAMIN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person235" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a horse-patrol of Bow-street. I was one of the party that went to the stable; Ruthven, Ellis, and Smithers were before me - there was a light in the stable. I saw a man standing at the bottom of the ladder; he had something, but I cannot say what it was - he was a short thick stout man, of a dark complexion. Ruthven and the rest went up the ladder; I followed Nixon up, who was near the top of the ladder. Before I got to the top I heard the report of a pistol, and Ellis came tumbling down the ladder as if he had been knocked down; he knocked down Nixon who fell upon me, and there was a rush from the loft. I got up near the door, and was pushed suddenly into Cato-street. I observed Davidson coming out of the door with a carbine which he discharged at me, and passed; after he had passed me I saw that he was a man of colour - he had a large sword in his hand. I ran after him, and cried out Stop him! He made a short stop, and made a back cut at me with the sword, then advanced forward again, and Ellis stopped him. I came up and gave him several blows on the wrists with my truncheon. He said he was lame in his hand - I said I would cut his hand off. I made a grasp at his sword, but felt it cut sharp, and let it go, I rather think the sword was twisted round his hand with a string, or I should have knocked it out of his hand. It fell at last on the ground and I picked it up. I took the carbine out of his other hand.
Q. What position was he in when you picked the sword up - A. Ellis laid hold of him. I never lost sight of him after he cut at me. We took him to a little shop in Cato-street, and there left him in charge. The carbine and sword are among the arms.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person236"> JOHN MUDDOX
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person236" type="surname" value="MUDDOX"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person236" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person236" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a soldier in the Coldstream Guards, and one of the party that went to Cato-street. I saw a man standing by the stable-door, and saw him next day at Whitehall. That is the man (pointing to Tidd). He presented a pistol at Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person237">Fitzclarence</persName> and fired it off. Sergeant
<persName id="t18200416-1-person238">Legge</persName> secured him soon afterwards. I went towards the stable-door and saw a person at the door make a cut at Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person239">Fitzclarence</persName> , and afterwards Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person240">Fitzclarence</persName> attacked him, and he went in at the door. I followed him, and in the centre of the room Wilson presented a pistol at my breast, it flashed in the pan, but did not go off. I made a stab at him with my bayonet and secured him, took him to the public-house, and saw him by the light. He is the man.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person241"> WILLIAM LEGGE
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person241" type="surname" value="LEGGE"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person241" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person241" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am Sergeant in the Coldstream Guards, and went to the stable under the command of Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person242">Fitzclarence</persName> . I observed a man standing near the stable with his back against the wall, between the gateway leading out of Cato-street and the stable-door. He had a pistol in his hand which he levelled at Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person243">Fitzclarence</persName> . He was about a yard and a half in front of me. I knocked the pistol aside with my pike, and seized the muzzle with my left hand. A scuffle ensued between us which should have the pistol and it went off in the middle of it. I did not pull the trigger. I had hold of the muzzle end, he had it by the other end. The ball went through the sleeve of my jacket on the right arm. As soon as the pistol went off he struggled no longer for it, but let go. I secured the man and delivered him over to the police officers - it was Tidd. I went into the stable, and up into the loft; the persons in the loft surrendered to the piquet.
CAPTAIN FITZCLARENCE. I am Captain of the Cold-stream Guards. On the evening of the 23d of February, I accompanied a piquet to Cato-street. When in John-street I heard the report of fire-arms, and brought the piquet forward towards Cato-street. On getting to the archway I met a police officer, who cried out
"Soldiers! soldiers! the doorway." I went to the stable-door and met two men, one of whom presented a pistol, and another struck at me with a sword; we exchanged several cuts, and seeing the piquet he run into the stable. I ran and fell over a man. He said
"Do not kill me, and I will tell you all." I gave him over to the piquet, and took another man in the stable and gave him to the piquet; and went to the loft and found three, four, or five men there, with a quantity of arms, blunderbusses, pistols, swords, and pikes. The body of poor Smithers was on the floor. I assisted in securing them and the arms. Sergeant Legge was of the party. I did not see him secure the men, my attention was directed to the man who cut at me. I had a scuffle and the pistol went off.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Did you accompany Davidson from the loft to Bow-street - A. Yes; he was brought into the stable. I am not sure whether he was not taken to the Horse and Groom or not, as two or three prisoners were. Tidd and Wilson were, I rather think Davidson was not.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person244"> WILLIAM WESTCOAT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person244" type="surname" value="WESTCOAT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person244" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person244" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I went to Cato-street on the 23d of February. On going to the ladder I saw the prisoner Ings at the foot of the ladder in the stable.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person245"> JOHN WRIGHT
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person245" type="surname" value="WRIGHT"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person245" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person245" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. I went up to the foot of the ladder in the stable in Cato-street, and saw a stout man standing at the foot of the ladder. I took a butcher's knife and a sword from him. The handle of the knife has wax-end round it. I was knocked down immediately. and received a stab in my right side - the man escaped. Ings was afterwards taken into custody.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person246"> JAMES CHAMPION
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person246" type="surname" value="CHAMPION"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person246" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person246" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. On the 23d of February I was at the stable in Cato-street, and saw Ings at the foot of the ladder. He said
"Look out above there!" and afterwards made his escape. He was brought back in the custody of Brooks and Maze. I came up to him in Edgware-road, found him in custody, and took him to Marylebone watch-house. I found two haversacks slung like cross belts under his great coat, and a tin case nearly full of powder, three pistol balls, and a blue cloth knife case for a large knife. The knife produced fits it exactly.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person247"> WILLIAM BROOKS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person247" type="surname" value="BROOKS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person247" type="given" value="WILLIAM"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person247" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street patrol. On the night of the 23d of February, I met a man running in John-street, he presented a pistol at me and fired, the ball went through my clothes, bruised my shoulder and grazed my neck. I staggered into the street and he ran on. I pursued him, he was afterwards taken by Moye. We both seized him at the same time; it was Ings. I took two haversacks and a belt from round his body, and a tin case nearly
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160060"/>full of powder from him at the watch-house. Champion took the knife-case from him. I said
"You rascal, why did you fire at me, a man you never saw before?" He d - d me, and said
"To kill you; and I meant to do it - I wish I had."

<persName id="t18200416-1-person248"> SAMUEL HERCULES TAUNTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person248" type="surname" value="HERCULES TAUNTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person248" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person248" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am an officer of Bow-street. On Saturday morning, the 24th of February, I went to Brunt's lodging to apprehend him, and took him in the two-pair front room. I searched the back room on the two-pair, and found two rush baskets, an iron pot, and pike staves. I asked him about the room, he denied it being his apartment. I called up the landlady. She said, in his presence, that the lodging was let to a man in his presence. I then asked Brunt who the man was. He said he had seen him once at the public-house. I then went to Tidd's, in Hole in the Wall-passage, about nine o'clock, and found a quantity of things there. Brunt denied all knowledge of the baskets.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person249"> DANIEL BISHOP
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person249" type="surname" value="BISHOP"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person249" type="given" value="DANIEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person249" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I am a Bow-street officer. On Thursday morning, the 24th of February, between ten and eleven o'clock, I apprehended Thistlewood at Mrs. Harris's, No. 8, White-street Moorfields, in bed, with his breeches and stockings on. His coat and waistcoat were by the bed-side. In his waistcoat pocket I found three leaden balls, a ball cartridge, a blank cartridge, two flints, and a small silk sash. I took him to Bow-street.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Do you know a man named Salmon - A. I knew an officer of that name; he, Lavender, and Ruthven, were present when I apprehended him. We surrounded the house before we entered.
(Adjourned.)
SECOND DAY, THURSDAY, APRIL 27.
Examination resumed.
G. T. J. RUTHVEN here produced the arms, amunition, &c. found at Cato-street, and taken from the different prisoners, as stated in the former trials.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person250"> JOHN HECTOR MORRISON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person250" type="surname" value="HECTOR MORRISON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person250" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person250" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> re-examined. The first sword I sharpened for Ings is among those produced. It appears to have been sharpened upon a stone or steel since.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person251"> HENRY GILLON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person251" type="surname" value="GILLON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person251" type="given" value="HENRY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person251" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . Here is the carbine and sword which were taken from Davidson. I saw him discharge the carbine. The sword has a string attached to it.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person252"> JAMES ALDOUS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person252" type="surname" value="ALDOUS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person252" type="given" value="JAMES"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person252" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . The blunderbuss which Davidson redeemed is among those produced.
DAVIDSON. Q. Do not you remember when I pledged it that I said it was not mine? You said you would lend me 7 s. on it as you knew me, or you would not have taken it in - A. I do not recollect it, he might have made the observation.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person253"> SAMUEL TAUNTON
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person253" type="surname" value="TAUNTON"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person253" type="given" value="SAMUEL"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person253" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> here produced the ammunition found at Brunt's and Tidd's.
SERGEANT HANSON here deposed pecisely the same as on the former trials, as to the composition of the hand-grenades.
MR. CURWOOD addressed the Jury on behalf of the prisoners, and called

<persName id="t18200416-1-person254"> MARY PARKER
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person254" type="surname" value="PARKER"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person254" type="given" value="MARY"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person254" type="gender" value="female"/> </persName> . I am daughter of the prisoner Tidd. I knew Edwards and Adams. About a fortnight before the affair in Cato-street, Edwards left the things which I have since heard called hand-grenades and some powder; one was larger than the others. Adams left word that they were to be called for again. Edwards took them away, and said
"He should get them finished." He brought them back afterwards, about a week before the Cato-street affair.
Q. Were they ever taken away again - A. They were on the 23d, by Edwards.
Q. Were they brought back again - A. Some were brought back on the morning of the 24th, about a quarter of an hour before the officers came. I do not know who brought them. I saw the person, he was an entire stranger to me.
Q. There was a box that was left at the house - A. Yes; it was corded when it was brought, and never uncorded to my knowledge; that was not taken away till the 24th, when the officers took it. I do not know the contents.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person255"> THOMAS CHAMBERS
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person255" type="surname" value="CHAMBERS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person255" type="given" value="THOMAS"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person255" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 3, Heathcock-court, Strand. I knew the witness Adams; he called on me twice before the men were apprehended in Cato-street. He first called about a week before in company with Edwards. Edwards first asked if I would go with them? I asked where? He said
"Why you are not such a fool as not to know what is on foot." I said I knew nothing that was on foot.
"Why," said Adams,
"We are going to kill His Majesty's Ministers, and we will have blood and wine for supper."
Q. Are you sure of the expression - A. Yes; Edwards replied,
"By G - d, Adams, you are right, it shall be so."
Q. Did Adams call on you the night before he was taken up - A. No; he called on the Monday before with Edwards with a bag, he asked me to let him leave it. I asked what it contained? He said
"Only a few pistols and such like." I said they should not leave it or any thing else - they went away. A man named
<persName id="t18200416-1-person256"> William Tunbridge
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person256" type="surname" value="Tunbridge"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person256" type="given" value="William"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person256" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> was present.
MR. GURNEY. Q. What book were you sworn on - A. I do not know; I never took an oath before I came here, it is the prayer-book I suppose.
Q. Do you believe in Christianity - A. Yes. I never saw Paine's Works. I knew the prisoner, Davidson, ever since Mr. Hunt's procession. I only knew Tidd by seeing him. I cannot say how long I have known him.
Q. Where did you have conversation with him - A. It might be at the Smithfield meeting. I attended them all, and carried a banner. I knew Ings, Brunt, and Harrison; I do not think I knew Strange.
Q. Did not you and Wilson go together to the Smithfield meeting - A. He might, but I cannot say; I carried no weapon there. I have known Thistlewood ever since Hunt's procession; I carried the flags from there to my house, and he came to my house to fetch them away.
Q. Have you ever seen him anywhere else - A. At the Black Dog, public-house, Gray's Inn-lane. I know the White Lion, Wych-street. I have not attended there along with him.
Q. What was the name of the society that used to meet there - A. They called themselves Reformers, that was all.
Q. Were Harrison, Davidson, Palin, and Thistlewood at all the meetings - A. I cannot say; I saw Thistlewood
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160061"/>there when Harrison was in the waggon - I was always in the waggon. I did not see Davidson there the day that Hunt took the chair. I do not know that I saw him in the waggon on other days - there might be more than one man of colour in the crowd. I do not think that I did see him there.
Q. When Edwards and Adams called on you and made this proposition, you thought them a couple of furious monsters, I suppose - A. Yes, but I never thought they would get fools enough to do such a thing. I consider myself a fool, but never thought they would get bigger fools than I am.
Q. Did you not go and give information of such a thing - A. No. I never heard a man say a word against his Majesty's Ministers, except drunken men and Edwards and Adams.
COURT. Q. What was it you thought they could not get a fool to do - A. To go with Adams and Edwards to assassinate the ministers.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. You never heard any man say any thing against his Majesty's Ministers except Adams, Edwards, and drunken men - A. No. I attended the Smithfield meeting; I never heard about killing the ministers there. I never heard more at Smithfield than has been in the public papers.
Q. You said before, that you first met Ings at a shop near you, where the Black Dwarf and Medusa are sold - A. You said so, but I did not.
Q. The little pamphlet shop in which you first met Ings - A. Yes, and I will tell you all the books I received - they are Cobbett's. I read nothing else.
Q. You only read Cobbett, and supposed you have been sworn on the prayer book - A. Yes, I never read anything but Cobbett. I have plenty of them in a drawer at home.

<persName id="t18200416-1-person257"> JOHN BENNET
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person257" type="surname" value="BENNET"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person257" type="given" value="JOHN"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person257" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> . I live at No. 4, Park-lane, New-street, Marylebone, and am a bricklayer. I know a man named Hiden; he called on me, and asked me to accompany him to a private Radical meeting.
Q. Did he use the expression
"Private Radical meeting" - A. Yes, he used that expression at my house.
Q. Has he endeavoured to persuade you to accompany him once or twice - A. Yes, and ten times, and more than that - he said I might sit and hear, and say nothing without I chose. I never attended any public or private meeting.
MR. ADOLPHUS here addressed the Jury on behalf of the prisoners.
DAVIDSON'S Defence. I wish to call your Lordships' attention to a few particulars. From my life upwards it has always been my study to maintain the character of an industrious and inoffensive man. I have no friends in England, but depended upon my own exertions for support. I have a numerous family, and for their sakes alone is my life of value to me. As to the charge which has been brought against me, I can lay my hand upon my heart, and in the presence of that God whom I revere, say I am not guilty of it. As to how I came by the blunderbuss I will state. I had a friend whose name was Williamson, who told me that he had bought an old blunderbuss that was all over rust - he was going to the Cape of Good Hope, and gave it to me to clean. He said he bought it with intent to take it to the Cape, but it would cost too much to repair it - I took it home with me with intent to raffle it. I met Edwards whom I knew nothing of till I dined at Mr. Hunt's procession, that was the first time I ever went into public in my life. Edwards said he would take me to a place to have the blunderbuss raffled for, and promised to bring a number of people at 1 s. each. When I went to the place I saw Thistlewood for the second time, I had previously seen him at Mr. Hunt's dinner; I saw Mr. Adams there, whom I also knew by seeing him before, but I knew none of the others. Mr. Edwards proposed to commence raffling for the blunderbuss, but as no money was tendered I would not agree - I then received a great deal of improper language, and went away. I went to Mr. Williamson, who was waiting to know the result, and told him what had passed. He then said he wanted to get some money, and I proposed pledging the blunderbuss at a pawnbroker's. He agreed to it, and requested me to take it for him, which I did to Mr. Aldous, and told him it was not my own, but the man wanted 7 s. on it; he said he would lend but 5 s., but as he knew me he gave 7 s. - the money I gave to Mr. Williamson. I afterwards went to Mr. Williamson on board the Belle Alliana, which was about to sail for the Cape of Good Hope, he gave me the ticket. On the 22d of February Edwards called upon me, and said he had been to see Mr. Williamson, and had given him a trifling present, and that Mr. Williamson had told him to get the ticket of the blunderbuss. I gave it to him, but told him he gave it to me. He saw that I was not pleased, and said,
"I am going to sell it, and if I get 7 s. by it you shall have part." The same evening, the 23d of February, he called about eight o'clock, and said perhaps the person would object to let him have it, and gave me 7 s. 2 1/2 d to get it out. He told me to meet him at the corner of Oxford-street, and if I did not find him there, I should see him in Fox-court - I took it there. He said,
"Won't you walk in, and have a glass of something with a countryman of yours?" I said,
"What do you mean by a countryman of mine?" He said a man of colour - I never associated with men of colour, although one myself, as I was very well brought up, and always found most of them so very ignorant - I did not go. I now pass over that to the sword concern - I shall state the truth. On a Monday after the Manchester massacre I met one
<persName id="t18200416-1-person258"> George Goldworthy
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person258" type="surname" value="Goldworthy"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person258" type="given" value="George"/>
<interp inst="t18200416-1-person258" type="gender" value="male"/> </persName> , to whom I had been apprenticed in Liverpool. He expressed his surprise at seeing me in London. I told him I was out of employment, and that there was nothing worse than being a small master, as all the rest of the trade, from jealousy, had set their faces against me. He said he had set up a little business himself, a few miles in the country, and that he would employ me if I would go. I asked 33 s. a week, he offered me 30 s., but said if I would go to the Horse and Groom, public-house, on Wednesday, we could talk about it. I did not know that Goldworthy was intimate with Edwards, but now I find that they lodged in one house. On Wednesday evening, however, I went to the Horse and Groom, and looked into the house, but did not see Goldworthy there. I stopped at the corner to wait for him, which your Lordships and Gentlemen must know I should not have done, being so conspicuous a character, if I was about any thing improper. I saw several
<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160062"/>persons going in and out of the house, but still Goldworthy did not come. A little after eight o'clock, while I was in Edgware road, up came Goldworthy. He asked me if I was not surprised he did not come? I said I was. He then said he was going to call upon a friend; he gave me a sword, and a bundle tied up; I do not know what was in it. I said
"What, are you going to cut my head off?"
"No (said he,) I got it for self-protection, as we have many thieves about the country." At this time I had not the least knowledge of anything directly or indirectly concerning the business in Cato-street. I went down the street and when I got to the corner of Cato-street, I heard a pistol fired. I went to see what was the matter and attempted to go away. Two or three pistols were fired at me. I turned round to see what was the matter, and again attempted to go away. I heard a cry of
"Stop thief!" I was seized and taken to gaol. I never
<persName id="t18200416-1-person259">drew</persName> the cutlass nor offered to strike, but gave myself up. I had no belts on, this was merely to catch me. If the gentlemen wish my life they may have it. I have ventured my life fifteen times for my country and my King, and I ask you, Gentlemen, if it is to be supposed that I should be so vain as to attempt to join a few weak men to trample down the British Constitution, in which this country has so much reason to glory. It is not likely - I would scorn such an act. I do not deny being apprehended in Cato street, but the carbine was not in my possession; it was picked up. I was asked if it was not mine, I said no. Another gentleman said
"What did you ask him for, you know it is." I was searched and nothing found on me. I was never carried into any public-house as the officers swore, but Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person260">Fitzclarence</persName> has cleared that point. The officers said that I swore at the man who would not die for liberty's cause, and I appeal to Captain
<persName id="t18200416-1-person261">Fitzclarence</persName> whether he did not take me directly to Bow-street. I do not pretend to say there was no plot, but I knew nothing of it. I was accidentally drawn into Cato-street in the way I have said, but knew nothing of a plot to plunder, burn, or massacre. I did not know that any such plot was in existence. I am not such a man, if my colour be against me. I am not void of all feeling, and would not act the murderer or the brute. I will now, my Lords and Gentlemen, give you an instance where one man of colour may be mistaken for another, as must have been my case. My leisure time I employed as a teacher in a Sunday School; there a similar mistake was made. A person (a man of colour) insulted one of the female-teachers in Walworth-road, the young lady said it was me, and made a complaint to the committee. As I found I was slighted, though nothing was said, I sent a letter - in consequence of it, the whole committee waited upon me in a body, and expostulated with me on the impropriety of my conduct. It struck me with such horror I had nothing to answer, and let them go away without making any defence. I afterwards, however, set myself to work, and actually traced out the person who had committed the offence, and brought him to the committee. He apologized and acknowledged it, and begged the young lady's pardon. The young lady could not look me in the face, knowing how she had injured me. She came with her handkerchief over her face, held out her hand as a token of her regret, and asked my pardon. Now, my Lords and Gentlemen, if any thing I could say could wipe away this impression I would do it, but I would as soon be put to death as suppose that you, my Lords and the Gentlemen of the Crown, should think me that monster that would for a moment harbour a thought to massacre any person, directly or indirectly; I hope your Lordships will not shew me the least mercy if you think so. I can stand before my God as I do now, and shall stand hereafter to acquit myself. I am not that guilty man. I have very few words more to say. As to politics I never troubled my head with them. I have a very numerous family, and a wife that never earned me a penny, and all my distress arises from the consideration of the helpless state of my family; where it not for that I should not speak for myself. But should feel like Isaiah;
"who, though persecuted, he opened not his mouth." As a father I must feel, and I wish to discharge my duty; for them I wish to live, and for their sakes I wish, if possible, to clear up the black charge which has been laid against me. First of all, Mr. Adams positively swore that he never saw me in any warlike appearance, and that I was down stairs. And then comes Mr. Monument, who said that I addressed the congregation, and told them that were afraid of their lives to walk out, and in a few minutes the officers came up. You must see that that this is an exaggeration, and in fact altogether an invention, or would not these men who were present at the same time have agreed in the same story? I admit I was in Cato-street; and even admiting this what does it amount to? I very well know since that Mr. Goldworthy was an accomplice of Edwards, but never thought he would entrap me into this snare. As to myself, my Lord, I have served my country, and done all that I could do for it. I have supported my family by honest industry, and can appeal to fifty people that they never knew me associate with any person at public places, except one meeting at Smithfield, which I attended from curiosity as a common spectator. I have seen Thistlewood, but not on that night, or I might have supposed something was going on. I know no nothing of these men. I have no knowledge of these plots. I do not blame the Gentlemen of the Crown, I have nothing to lay to their charge. I admire the way they have pursued; they have done no more than their duty according to the evidence which has been brought brought before them. But I say the witnesses as far as regards me are altogether false sworn. I have selected a few passages from the Bible, which I wish to read on the subject, and these I offer not for the purpose of insulting the Court. The indictment says, that I did certain things not having the fear of God before my eyes. Now I always had the fear of God before me, and always cherished the feelings of virtue and humanity. I always subscribed to the beautiful lines of Pope -
If I am right, thy grace impart Still in the right to stay;
If I am wrong, Oh! teach my heart To find the better way.
Teach me to feel another's woe, To hide the faults I see;
The mercy I to others show That mercy show to me.

<xptr type="pageFacsimile" doc="182004160063"/>These verses I always admired. (Here the prisoner recited from the 15th to the 22d verses of the xixth chap. of Deut.) These words, Gentlemen of the Jury, I wish to impress on your minds. I am a stranger to England by birth, but I was educated in England; my father was an Englishman, my grandfather was a Scotch-man. I have not a friend in England. I have not a relative. I have supported myself to this hour spotless, and it is hard to have my life taken away when I knew nothing of any plot. Gentlemen, when I think of this it unmans me; I am no plotter - no assassin - no traitor. Look well to the evidence, and to your own hearts, before you pronounce the fatal verdict of guilty. Gentlemen, the Earl of Harrowby I have known for years, I have worked on his Lordship's estate in Staffordshire. Gentlemen, I knew him and respected him. Had I known that this plot existed I would have been the first man to warn his Lordship of his danger, but I declare solemnly that I knew not of such an intention. I knew nothing of these dark and bloody projects - Gentlemen I have now done. I repeat I will readily submit to death if you think me capable of harbouring an intention to commit the crime of high treason; if that is your persuasion pronounce your verdict accordingly. I hope my death may prove useful to my country.</

The Proceedings of the Old Bailey

London's Central Criminal Court, 1674 to 1913

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