24th February 1896
Reference Numbert18960224-260
VerdictsGuilty > unknown
SentencesImprisonment > penal servitude; Imprisonment > penal servitude

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260. JAMES SAUNDERS (38) , indicted for burglary in the dwelling-house of Lady Blanche Hozier, and stealing a kettle and other articles; and with THOMAS REDFEARN (67) for receiving the same.

MESSRS. C. F. GILL and A. E. GILL Prosecuted; MR. HUTTON appeared for Saunders, and MESSRS. GEOGHEGAN, ROOTH and NOBLE for Redfearn.

GEORGE ROLPE . I am a carpenter, of 110, Argyll Road, Netting Hill—last April I was in charge of work going on at 97, Cornwall Road, Bays-water—on Saturday, April 6th, I left those premises about 1.20, having locked them up—I hung the keys up in my employer's workshop—I returned on Monday, 8th, about 8.30 or 9—as I went upstairs I saw several servants' aprons that had been pulled out, and scattered on the floor—I did not know exactly where the plate was kept—I went through into the dining-room, and there saw the window open—that window is at the back of the house, where there is a long garden—the ladders we had been using in our work were lying in the garden—Mrs. Burkiss, the caretaker, came in about 9.20—I did not direct her attention to this condition of things.

FRANCIS EDWARD LOWLESS . I am chief clerk at the West London Police-court—I was there on 3rd May, when James Saunders was charged with the larceny of a silver kettle, and other things, the property of Lady Hozier—on the hearing of that charge, Redfearn was called as a witness, and gave the evidence in this deposition; it was not read over to and signed by him because the prisoner was discharged; he said: "I live at 330, Edgware Road, and am a jeweller; I produce a soup-ladle and other articles, bought by me on 8th April from a man for 7s., about twelve noon. I do not recognise the prisoner; the man was much younger than the prisoner; there was also a grog-kettle and stand that I left on the counter after the man had gone, and it was stolen soon after I purchased it"—there was a remand, and ultimately Saunders and another man were discharged, as there was not sufficient evidence of identity.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. Burkiss gave evidence on May 3rd and 10th, I think.

HARRIETT BURKISS . I am the wife of John Burkiss, of 21, Convent Gardens, Netting Hill Square—last April I was acting as caretaker at 97, Cornwall Road, the residence of Lady Blanche Hozier, who was away—I was supposed to go there in the morning to see if there were any letters to forward to her ladyship—on Monday morning, April 8th, I went, and, going into the pantry, I noticed one of the drawers open, and I opened another unlocked drawer in which the silver was kept, and found all the silver was gone from the drawer—to the best of my belief this is the kettle that was taken—the window of the back room was open; it is the drawing-room, but it is used as the dining-room; the window looks into the garden.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. Her ladyship told me on the 8th not to go to the house again, but said that she would come round to my house that night—she did not come round, and I did not go to the house again.

GEORGE BURKISS . I am a sailor, and am a son of the last witness—I had nothing to do with 97, Cornwall Road, of which my mother was caretaker—in April, 1895, I heard of the robbery—I was then living at home—I did not know Saunders—I first came to know him on the Monday after the robbery, April 8th—I was told that somebody wanted to see me in the Admiral public-house, in Church Street—I went there, and saw Saunders—I asked him if he wanted to see me; he said, "Yes," and he paid for some drinks there, and we went to the Green Man public-house, in the Edgware Road; he paid for something, and told me to stop there for a little while, as he was going out for a few minutes—he did not say where he was going—he came back in from ten to fifteen minutes, and gave me 4s.—I asked him what he gave me it for—he said, "I will tell you in a minute"—I said, "I do not want it; I don't know what it is for"—he would not take it back, so I put it on the counter and spent it in beer—he told me he had been along to the old Jew's to sell the spoons and forks, which were no good, which he got from 97, Cornwall Road—he said he got in there through the back window—I said, "I expect my mother will get the sack now"—he said, "Oh, no, she won't; that will be all right"—he said he got the things out of the drawers—I said if I had known they had been going to do it I would have stopped them—on the previous Friday, about 5.30 or 6, I had seen Saunders in Kensington Park Road, drinking at the Grasshopper public-house—I was with some chaps outside, and he passed by two or three times—I did not speak to him—I have known Mott about twelve months—I never saw him with Saunders—Saunders did not mention the name of anyone as being with him when he got these things out of 97, Cornwall Road—after the Monday I did not see Saunders till I saw him charged at the Police-court on May 3rd—he was charged alone—I gave evidence there—Tom Putt came and told me to go to the Admiral; he was one of the men there—Mott told me on the Friday who he was—when I got to the Admiral on the Monday I recognised him by some sores on his neck as the man I had seen, at the Grasshopper on the Friday—I was told he would be in the Admiral—Mott told me on the Monday morning where he was

and I went up to him and said, "Do you want to see me?"—he said, "Yes"—I asked him what for, and he said, "I will tell you presently"—I do not know where Redfearn's shop is—I did not drink the beer—I spent the 4s. in beer to get rid of it.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. I don't know how many quarts I got for the 4s.; I did not want the money—about a dozen men were there; none of those men are here; I do not know their names—I have no one to corroborate my story about seeing Saunders in the public-house—I understood him when he told me he had committed a burglary in the house in which my mother was caretaker; he told me after giving me the 4s.—I put the 4s. all down together, and asked for four shillings-worth of beer—I took no notice how many pots, they gave me—no one is here from the public-house—Saunders paid for a drink when we got to the Green Man—it was in the Green Man he made the statement to me—when I came out of the Green Man I went towards home; I saw two or three policemen, going towards home; I did not tell them about Saunders because I did not know if anyone was following me; I might have got my head bashed in, or something of that sort; that was my only reason for not telling them, I swear—I did not swear at the Police-court my reason, because my mother would get the sack—I had worked at 97, Cornwall Road—I never went to the drawers in the pantry—I have been in the pantry—I knew there was plate in the house; my mother told me that—I had not been in the house for about a fortnight before the 8th—I had been there once when the painters were there—I worked in the house while Lady Hozier was at home—I had been in all the rooms of the house—I knew there was plate in the drawers in the pantry—I have helped my mother to clean it—I cannot say when I last helped to clean it before the 8th—I bad been away for a fortnight, if I recollect—I had last been in the house to fetch letters when the painters were in the house, about six or seven days before the burglary—I am quite sure I never told anybody that the plate was in the, pantry—I never asked the man in the public-house any question a—Sergeant Wheatley came and questioned me—I was not frightened of being taken into custody for this burglary myself—I did not know he was coming—I have never been in trouble—I have been on a merchant ship for nearly three months; I left it last Thursday—I have my discharge—when the burglary took place I was living at home with my mother; I was not doing anything—soon after I went away on a barque to Algiers—I had been out of work in April, since Lady Hozier went away—on the Monday I met Mott, and he said, "You go up to the Admiral, in Church Street, and you will see a man there with some lumps behind his ear; he wants to see you"—I did not ask what he wanted to see me about—I had known Mott for twelve months—I saw him on the Sunday, outside a public-house in Kensington Park Road—I did not speak to him—I knew him when he worked for Dr. Potter—I did not know he had been in trouble or convicted—I have seen him in public-houses—I never drank with him—I saw him on Friday, April 5th, in a public-house—I swear I did not see him on the Saturday—I saw him on the Sunday in the Kensington Park Road—we spoke together for two or three seconds; we did not go into a public-house—I do not know when the burglary took place; Saunders did not tell me—Mott was not in the

public-house when I bought four shillingsworth of beer—Wheatley came to me about five a.m. on May 2nd—between April 7th and May 2nd I had done odd days' work—I was taken to the station, and was in the billiard-room till about ten o'clock; I was told not to leave—I made my statement to Wheatley when he came to my house and woke me up—policemen were playing billiards in the room while I was there—I gave before the Magistrate evidence similar to what I have given to-day—the Magistrate dismissed the case.

Re-examined. I am eighteen—I have been in two ships during the last nine months—I was wrecked off the Spanish coast.

WALTER MORRIS SMITH . I live at 109, Coleshill Buildings, Westminster—Redfearn was my employer, at 330, Edgware Road, from the end of February, 1895, to January 4th, 1896—the Green Man public-house is about twenty yards from 330, Edgware Road—I know Saunders as bringing things to sell to Redfearn—I saw him first in April—I saw him in the shop ten to twelve times between April and July—I did not see him after July—the first time I saw him was Monday, April 8th, I believe; it was two days before Sergeant Wheatley came—I saw Redfearn pay Saunders some money that day—before that I saw this silver kettle at the back of the shop—I first saw that kettle on April 8th—I believe Redfearn said to Saunders the stuff was only plated, and he gave him the money—Redfearn asked my opinion about the kettle before Saunders came in—I examined it, and was dubious about its being silver at first—I believe it is not hall-marked; it is of foreign manufacture—I applied a test which showed it was silver of poor quality—Redfearn was present when I tested it; he said it was silver, and he could understand me not believing it was silver in the first place, because of the quality—he agreed it was silver, though of low quality—I did not price it—Redfearn did not say at the time where he got it from; some weeks afterwards he told me Saunders was the man he had bought the kettle of—I was present on the 10th, when Wheatley came and asked me if we had bought a lot for 7s.—I said I did not know—I called Redfearn in, and he produced this kettle, a soup-ladle, two sauce-ladles, some spoons and forks—Wheatley said he would have to produce them at the Police-court on his finding the thief—the things were left on the counter, and we expected the police officers back—Redfearn afterwards told me that the kettle had been stolen from the counter, and he sent a note to the police to that effect—I saw the kettle again in August at the shop, among the stock—Redfearn asked me if I would try and sell it—I believe it to be the same kettle—its weight is 41 oz.—I asked him no questions about it—its value as old silver, if melted down, would be between £4 and £5, I should say—I tried to sell it, but returned it to Redfearn, as I could not get enough for it—I was not at the Police-court in May—I submitted it to Mr. Arrowsmith, a private gentleman—he would not buy it—subsequently Mr. Sandheim had it—this postcard was written to him by Redfearn (staling that he was willing to submit the kettle to him)—Mr. Sandheim took the kettle away and brought it back—I was Redfearn's manager—we kept the ordinary sale books—when we bought things they were entered on a slate, from which we entered the gross amount in a bought book—no details were entered there of articles purchased—I

believe I asked Arrowsmith £25 for the kettle—a silver article made abroad would not be so valuable as one made in this country.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I was born in the jewellery trade—I have no knowledge of foreign hall-marks—I have seen marks something similar to those on the kettle, but I should not know the originality of them; they would not convey to me that the kettle was silver—I have seen kettles with stands, not like this, but similar to it—I could not say where it came from—Redfearn has a plate licence—purchases are entered on the slate, and then their total is entered in the book—I was asked to resign on January 4th—I said before the Magistrate, "I believe Mr. Redfearn was in doubt as to its being silver"—I told him that I thought at my first look it was plated; that was before I tested it—after testing it he said it was silver of very low quality—I believe, when Wheatley called, the kettle was referred to as a plated article—Mr. Redfearn had two other assistants—the kettle, after being shown to Wheatley, was placed on the end of the counter; then Redfearn went out—I believe it was on the counter when he came back—I understood Wheatley was coming back for the articles in a short time, and they were kept on the counter for him—I went to dinner when Redfearn returned, and when I came back he told me the kettle was miming—I never remember anything else being stolen from the counter—I only know Inspector Conquest in connection with this case—I was asked to resign on January 4th—before Redfearn's arrest I saw Conquest in the Edgware Road, and he spoke to me; I did not know him before that—that was some long time before I resigned—I had never been to Scotland Yard before January 4th, or had a statement taken from me—I knew on January 4th that this kettle was in the window—I should not have said that it was concealed from view; any person coming into the shop could see it—I have seen Saunders about twelve times—he has sold small pieces of broken silver and plated spoons and forks—I believe there are large dust-heaps on the canal banks near 330, Edgware Road—I have not seen them.

By the COURT. I mentioned £25 to Arrowsmith, because Redfearn entered it in the book at that price when it was entered out on approval to me to submit—the slate is kept for three or four days and then rubbed out—he had no stock book that I know of—Wheatley came on April 10th, the first thing in the morning—the police list arrived about nine o'clock; I do not know on which day; after we bought the kettle, I believe—I do not think that Redfearn knew the things were in the nine and Cry when he bought it—he could soon have found out if he had looked.

DAVID SANDHEIM . I am a partner in the firm of Sandheim Brothers, jewellers and curiosity dealers, of Ladbroke Grove—I have occasionally made purchases from Redfearn—in August last I saw this kettle in his shop—he told me it was a very fine kettle, and asked me 12s. 6d. an ounce for it, and wanted me to purchase it—I refused to buy—he then wanted me to take it on approval—I told him it was useless my taking it, as we had no customers in town in August for that class of article, but that if he had it later on in the season I did not mind showing it—he said that the people from whom he had it thought very highly of it—he described it as weighing 42 oz.—I subsequently gut a postcard from him,

and I had the kettle and stand on approval at 10s. an ounce to me—I had no doubt about its being silver—I did not recognise the foreign hall-mark or test it, but I was satisfied it was silver without testing it—I was inclined to think it was Norwegian, but I did not think it was Dutch—it is all hammered—I don't know if it is Dutch—an article of this kind is never made in white metal.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. As far as I know, it is unique—I deal in old silver and curios, among other things—I never before saw an article like this—I never saw marks before like those on it—I cannot say where it came from—the value of such an article would depend on its history and on the buyer's appreciation of it, and on its being a fine specimen of its school—it only appeared to me as a fine specimen of hammered work, not as belonging to any particular school—to a collector it would not matter whether it was cleaned; both the kettle and the stand are silver.

Re-examined. It was cleaner when I saw it than it is now.

GEORGE WHEATLEY (Sergeant F). I received some information about this burglary, and a description of the stolen kettle—it was put in the police list—on April 10th I went to Redfearn's shop with another officer at 10.30 or 10.45—Redfearn knew me—I asked him if he had bought any plated forks and spoons, and a kettle from a man on 8th (that would be the previous Monday) for 7s.—he hesitated a moment, and then said, "Yes, I bought some odd stuff"—he went into the back shop, and brought out the kettle and stand, two sauce ladles, two tablespoons, five small forks, a pickle fork, a small bottle stand, and a soup ladle, etc.—I looked at them and said, "Is not this kettle silver?"—he said, "No, it is only plated, and of no value"—the other articles I knew were plated—I examined the kettle, but I could see no lion stamp on it—I said, "Did you buy any more property of the man?"—he said, "No"—the list in which was a description of the kettle would reach him in the morning of the 10th—I had another list, in which all the property was mentioned; I showed him that as well—the list he received was the pawnbroker's list; it should have reached him about 8 a.m., or before—this other is the police information; it included the toast-rack, and soda-water bottle stand—I drew the prisoner's attention to the fact that the kettle was in the list, and that it was described us silver; that the things were part proceeds of a burglary, and that no doubt I should arrest the thief shortly, and then he would have to produce them in the Police-court, and that I would call back and let him know when to do so—I asked him to put them away in a place of safety, as they were stolen property—I asked him if the man who sold them had given his name and address; he said no, that the man told him he had bought them at a rummage sale, and wanted to get rid of them; and that he had given him 7s. for them, though he would have been satisfied with 5s.—I asked him if he would know him again; he said yes; and he described his age as between 30 and 40, 5 ft. 5 in. or 5 ft. 6 in. high, with dark moustache, and the appearance of a dealer—I asked if he had any entry of this transaction in his book; he said No; but that he had on the slate—he took down the slate, which was hanging at the back of his shop; there was a list of the articles in question on that slate; it did not contain the toast-rack or soda-water

bottle stand—he made a rough list for himself at the time—I went away, and endeavoured to find the thief—the next morning a note was left for me at the station; it was on one of Redfearn's bill-heads: "Awaiting your promise to return yesterday that kettle got stolen off the counter. Please have it put in the list"—it was in the list already—I called at the shop immediately, but did not see him—I called again in the evening, and saw him, and asked for an explanation—he said his assistant had removed it from where he had placed it, and put it on the counter without his knowledge, and during his absence—I told him it was very strange, after being informed by the police, that he had not taken greater care of it, and that I should inform the Magistrate of the facts—he said, Very well; he had done all he could—subsequently Saunders was in custody—about five a.m. on May 2nd, I was sent for, and found Saunders detained in custody, and I told him he would be detained on suspicion of committing this burglary, and that I should get witnesses—I went to Burkiss's house shortly before six, and saw the son, and from what he said I got him to accompany me to the station—when Saunders was charged, he said, "I don't know anything about it; if you knew it was me, why had not you got me before? I have been about here. You will have to prove it"—I received this memorandum of the things from Redfearn on that afternoon; the kettle, toast-rack, and soda-water bottle stand are not on it—in the afternoon, when Saunders was brought up, Redfearn said the man was not there that he bought the property from—Saunders was placed with others—subsequently he gave evidence before the Magistrate—Mott was arrested, brought up with Saunders, and they were both discharged—there was no evidence against them except that of the boy—the Magistrate ordered the things to be given up 'to Lady Hozier—after that we received information, and we went to Redfearn's shop on January 10th—I was present when the kettle was found; I identify it as the same kettle.

Cross-examined by MR. HUTTON. Burkiss first saw Saunders at the station, where he was placed with a number of other persons about 11.30—Burkiss had been at the station from 7.15 or 6.30—later on he was allowed to go home—when Redfearn saw Saunders at the Police-court he repudiated all knowledge of him; the Magistrate asked him whether he knew him in connection with other transactions, and he said he did not know him at all.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. The kettle was not quite so tarnished when I saw it—I have seen a lot of silver, the proceeds of burglaries, and other things, and old plate—I took this kettle for plated when I first saw it, because I was told so by Redfearn—the pawnbroker's list did not come to his shop till 1.10; in that list there are two kettles; only one was found at his shop—it is described in the list as Dutch.

PERCY BUTTON BARBER . My house was broken into on the night of October 8th, and about £100 worth of plate and silver and other things were stolen—they got in by cutting away the shutters of the kitchen window, and they got into the dining-rooms and took the things away—among the articles stolen was a lobster pick exactly similar to this.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Of the £100 worth of things stolen this lobster pick, value 10s., is the only thing identified—this is a common pattern, but it is silver; they are usually plated.

LADY BLANCHE HENRIETTA HOZIER . I live at 97, Cornwall Road, Notting Hill—in February last I left my house shut up, and I left the keys with Mrs. Burkiss—during my absence from London some repairs, were done to my house—on April 8th I got a telegram which brought me home—I missed a number of silver and plated articles; among them this silver kettle, toast-rack, and soda-water bottle stand—information was at once given to the police—I called at Redfearn's shop with Wheatley in April, and heard Redfearn tell Wheatley that the kettle had been stolen—at the beginning of this year Conquest came and made a statement to me, and I went with him to Redfearn's: while looking about his shop I recognised this toast-rack and soda-water bottle stand, and Conquest subsequently found this kettle, which has been in my possession since 1878; it was given to me—it was bought at Dicker's, in Vigo Street.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. The toast-rack and soda-water bottle stand are plated; I am sure they are mine; the stand was specially made for me—the toast-rack was given to me—I do not know what country the kettle comes from.

Re-examined. £40 was asked for the kettle, and between £36 and £40 were given for it in 1878—I have had the soda-water bottle stand about four years; I wanted one rather stronger than usual; I have no doubt it is mine.

WILLIAM WHITE . I am a retired builder, of 66, Cambridge Gardens, Notting Hill—these mathematical instruments and teaspoon and jam-spoon are mine—I missed them on the morning of 5th July, 1895; they were safe the night before—the mathematical instruments were in a case—on the morning of the 5th I found that the house had been broken into during the night; the library window had been forced up—I lost about £15 worth of property.

Cross-examined by MR. ROOTH. One of these instruments I bought specially from another shop—the case was left behind—I have not the slightest doubt these are my property—a good many of the things I missed have not been found, some of the silver articles.

ALICE CLARA DAVIS . I live at 5, Colville Square, Bayswater—I recognise these two plated tablespoons, with my husband's initials, "T. B. D.," and this toast-rack—I missed them in July—the drawing-room window had been opened, and a man had got into the dining-room and taken all the things from there into the drawing-room, and then the drawing-room had been fastened so that we could not open it.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. We missed other property, £12 worth in all; these which we have recovered are worth about £3.

REBECCA JAMES . I am the wife of Walter Culmer James, of 15, Marlow Road, Kensington—I recognise these articles: eight ivory-handled fish-knives, seven forks, six pearl-handled dessert knives and forks, a plated fish-service, plated fruit-spoons, plated milk-jug, six plated coffee-spoons, and a pair of plated salad-servers—we missed them on Saturday morning, August 31st; the house had been broken open, and this property stolen.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Altogether about £25 worth of property was stolen, including a lot of silver, which has not been recovered—the value of these things is about £5—there is no crest or mark on them.

JAMES WOODWARD . I am a gunmaker, of 40, St. Charles Square, Kensington—on the night of December 23rd my house was broken into, and a quantity of silver spoons and forks were stolen; these two spoons are part of them—one of them bears my initial—I communicated with the police.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I estimated the value of what I missed at £25—these two spoons are worth about £1; I do not think I should get that for them if I sold them.

JOHN CONQUEST (Inspector, Scotland Yard). On January 10th, at 3.38, I went with Lady Blanche Hozier to 330, Edgware Road—I said to Redfearn "Do you remember this lady identifying some spoons and other articles stolen from Cornwall Road by housebreaking?"—he said, "Yes, I remember"—I said, "I am a police officer; have you seen anything of the kettle which was stolen from your counter? You know the one I mean"—he said "No, I have not seen it since"—I said, "Are you sure, as I have reason to believe you have that identical kettle on your premises now?"—he said, "No, I have not seen it since"—Lady Hozier them noticed this toast-rack and soda-water bottle stand on a shelf in the window at the back part of the shop—I asked the prisoner to get them down; he did so—she said she was sure they were her property—I looked about for the kettle, and again said to him, "I still believe the kettle is on your premises"—he said, "No, I can assure you it is not here"—I then called in Wheatley and Collins, who were outside—I said "These are police officers as well as myself, and I am going to search your premises"—I ultimately got on a stool, and, looking round his shop, I saw this kettle and stand separate in the window, and behind a kind of picture clock, quite out of sight—no one could see it from outside or within—I brought it down and showed it to the prisoner—her ladyship immediately identified it—I said, "You hear what this lady says"—he said, "Yes, I hear what she says, but I did not know that was the article you were referring to"—I said, "You will now be charged with feloniously receiving this kettle and other property stolen from this lady, well knowing it to have been stolen"—he said, "I have an explanation to give"—I said, "How did you come by it?"—he said, "I don't know how I came by it"—I searched the premises, and in the fireplace of a bedroom on the top floor I found this apparatus for smelting gold and silver with two crucibles and two moulds—it would be used with gas—on lifting up a board I saw pipes, communicating with the meter in the basement which could be attached to the apparatus—there was an arrangement in a cupboard by which the burners could be lowered, and so more pressure got on the gas for the apparatus—I also found a considerable quantity of broken silver, consisting of the tops of pepper-boxes, scent bottles, cases of watches, and all sorts of articles-everything that bore a crest or monogram could be readily melted down; this is as large a smelting apparatus as I have ever seen—I never saw a jeweller have one like it; refiners have them—I did not find any articles from which the prisoner could have made silver jewellery after melting these things down—I found these mathematical instruments in a drawer in the shop, wrapped in paper—these two silver spoons I found in the prisoner's safe—the toast-rack and plated spoons with the initials J.B.D., and this lobster pick I found in a cheffonier in the prisoner's dining-room—the articles

spoken to by Mrs. James were in the window, wrapped up separately in paper, quite hidden from view—these other spoons were in his bedroom—I found all the articles which have been shown to be stolen in various parts of his premises—they have been reported to the police, and have been in the pawnbrokers' lists from time to time in the usual way—those lists are also sent to jewellers.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Some of this silver in the box is cuttings; a very small portion—there are several thimbles—some of the pieces bear crests and monograms; this is the back of a watch—none of the pieces have been traced to any burglary—I find on the crucible the name of T. Fletcher, Warrington—I don't know that Messrs. Pringle and Co. sell crucibles like it; this catalogue contains an illustration very much like it—before I went to Redfearn's I had seen Smith, and had a conversation with him—I did not know where to find the kettle—you could not see it from outside the shop—I was in the shop half or three-quarters of a hour before I found it, and then I did so by getting on a stool—he told me he had been for forty years a jeweller in the Edgware Road; that is not true—he has been there fifteen years—I never searched a jeweller's premises before—most manufacturing jewellers are refiners; they would have a larger apparatus, but they might have one like this—Redfearn was not a manufacturer, but only a retail dealer in old and new plate—this apparatus is not large enough for a refiner.

Re-examined. On January 25th I found Saunders at Marylebone Police-court—I said to him, "Since you were arrested for the burglary at 97, Cornwall Road, a man named Redfearn, a jeweller, whom I believe you know, has been arrested for receiving this silver kettle; you will now be charged with being concerned with Redfearn, well knowing it was stolen with other articles"—he said, "Why, does the old man say I sold it to him? I can prove I did not sell it. Why, he said it was stolen from his shop. I can bring witnesses to prove I did not sell it to him"—Redfearn had given evidence at the Police-court to the effect that the article had been stolen from his premises, and Saunders would have heard that—I took possession of several books at Redfearn's place, among them a bought book—there was no entry of a purchase of a kettle in April—there appears every month an entry of the purchase of so many ounces of old gold and silver, with the price, without details—on April 13th the amount is £14 4s.—the lists were left by different officers during all this, time.

By MR. GEOGHEGAN. The toast-rack and soda-water bottle stand were not concealed—some articles had to be behind others—the shop is well stocked—I only took away what I thought might be identified; I left the bulk behind—I went to Smith, not in consequence of this matter; I thought he might tell me something—I purposely met him in the Edgware Road in October, after seeing him come out of the shop—I had a conversation with him in January—I questioned him about the kettle, and learnt what he has deposed to—I then had the kettle, and Redfearn was in custody—I should think it was not in consequence of anything that passed between me and Smith that he was discharged from his employment—Saunders was in custody before he was charged with this.


SAUNDERS then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction of felony in February, 1892, at this Court in the name of James Andrews . He had been convicted on nine other occasions, and had twice been sentenced to Seven Years' Penal Servitude.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

RED-FEARN had been convicted of bigamy.— Three Years' Penal Servitude. There were other indictments against the prisoners.

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