4th May 1891
Reference Numbert18910504-434
VerdictNot Guilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown; Guilty > with recommendation
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour; Imprisonment > hard labour

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434. RICHARD GOATLY , ERNEST SLADE , EDWARD RUDMAN (20), and HARRY RUDMAN (22) , Stealing 178 gross of umbrella ferrules of James Leslie "Wright and another; other Counts, for receiving.

MESSRS. GRAIN and WARBURTON Prosecuted, and MESSRS. FORREST FULTON and MUIR appeared for Goatly and Slade.

JAMES LESLIE WRIGHT . I am in partnership with my brother, as Wright and Harrington, umbrella furnishers, at Birmingham—on 1st April, 1890, we entered into an arrangement with Goatly—the bulk of the agreement was put down on paper; these (produced) are the two letters; they were made out about the same date, one for ourselves to sign, and the other for Goatly to sign. (One of these stated that Goatly teas to enter the prosecutor's service as an agent, at 2 1/2 per cent, commission; the other teas from the witness accepting the terms; three months' notice to be given on either side, the agreement to continue in force for five years)—the sole remuneration was 2 1/2 per cent, on the sales; he was afterwards allowed to act as agent for two other manufacturers, but not in umbrella furnishing, only umbrella sticks and ribs—Goatly introduced Slade to me, and he was ultimately engaged to assist Goatly in the London warehouse, but he was in our employment; we paid his salary—Goatly had no power to endorse cheques; he had to send them to us in course of post—hard cash we allowed him to retain and pay Slade's wages, fifteen shillings a week, and his petty expenses, and the boy's wages, and to account every month, but he had to advise us every night of money received—he had a duplicate day-book (produced)—this shows the name of the customer, and the goods sold, so that if the thing was regularly carried out we should have a duplicate set of books at Birmingham—on 1st April I sent up a considerable stock to start Goatly with, and we were constantly receiving requests from him for more goods—I have about a dozen letters, as specimens—these are some of them. (These requested more stock to be sent, as he must be fully prepared to execute certain commissions)—these letters are principally in answer to charges made by us, copies of which we have—Goatly took stock on 31st December, and I came up and took stock about 20th March, unknown to Goatly or Slade—I had with me the quantity of goods that had been dispatched, showing what ought to be in stock, and the result of my examination was that there was a very large deficiency—we have a book at Birmingham called the Dispatch-book, in which are entered all goods dispatched for London, and sale-sheets showing the exact amount and description of the goods sold; and by making a calculation between the two we could ascertain exactly what we ought to have in stock—acting upon that basis I found a very large deficiency of stock, in grosses and dozens, amounting to

about £500—I had separate interviews with Goatly and Slade—I first asked Slade to give me an explanation of the large quantity of stock which was deficient—he said he did not know at all what I was talking about, and would throw no light on the matter—Goatly was out then; when he came in I said, "I want you to give me an explanation of this large quantity of stock which is deficient"—he said, "I don't know what you are talking about, Mr. Wright; you must be mad"—I said, "Do you mean to say that you know nothing of large quantities of our goods being sold round the trade at ridiculously low prices?"—he said, "I have heard it"—I said, "Then why on earth did not you tell us about this, when we have written you all these letters, asking for an explanation of deficiencies, and telegraphed to you to come to Birmingham and give us information where our stock is going"—he said, "I did not like to worry you, Mr. Wright"—I said, "Where are Osborne's stock?"—he took me across the load to an outside warehouse, and drew open a drawer, and said, "Here they are"—I glanced at them, and perceived that they were all right—when He took over the agency there were ten dozen of those sticks brought there by my orders; Goatly has never returned me any portion of them as having been sold; they are silver plated—just before we took criminal proceedings I examined the quantity of sticks in that drawer, and found only thirty-five; I cannot find any trace of any of the others in any of our books—Goatly has never accounted to me in any shape or form or the missing sticks; they are peculiar, they are made in America both handles and sticks; we are the sole dealers in them for the whole of the United Kingdom—I dismissed Goatly and Slade the following day, and took possession of the warehouse and its contents—it was our warehouse—we paid the rent, they had nothing to do with that—I knew nothing about the Rudmans until I made inquiries of the police—prior to seeing Goatly on 20th March, I had received anonymous communications about him, which "brought me up to London—I communicated with the police, and in the result the four prisoners were given into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. My previous agent was Corder, he stayed up to 1st April, 1890, when I engaged Goatly—this document, containing the terms of the hiring, has not been executed by Goatly; I drew it up, and brought it to London, but it was not signed, as in consequence of what I heard in reference to Goatly I refused to sign it—I called on Mr. Cuzner, a stickmaker, who was also represented by Goatly—he informed me that Goatly was trading in his own name, and selling sticks; I came straight to the office and charged Goatly with carrying on business of his own, which he denied—I said, "I am very sorry, Goatly, that before you have been our representative a month or two you should break faith with us, because I have found that it is true"—he then admitted it—I said I could not allow it—he said it should be forthwith abandoned, but I did not require him to sign the agreement, because he had broken faith with us, and it was for five years—we did not take stock when he went in on the 1st April, and I have no means of knowing the amount of stock which he took over from Order—it would take us two or three days to remove the stock—I cannot give the jury any idea of the amount of stock he took over—the ferrules are made up in small packages, and they are packed in pigeon-holes about two feet deep—whether the pigeon-holes are entirely filled depends on

the quantity of stock—they might not be entirely full, because each hole is kept for a different size—we pack from back to front, and if a person did not look behind the front tier he could not see if the back tier had gone—we have about one hundred pigeon-holes—our stock consists of ferrules and umbrella-handles, which were in boxes with sliding lids—the boxes are also placed in pigeon-holes, and unless the lid is taken off it might be empty without a person knowing it—they were also packed from back to front—we have some tip-caps in stock; they are not missing—we took over Osborne's sticks with his other stock—Corder was not agent for Osborne at the time he was agent for us—when we took stock on April 1st we made our calculation at Birmingham, but Goatly took stock at Christmas—I looked at our books to see what stock had been forwarded to Goatly, between April 1st and December 31st, and then compared the amount of sales between the same dates, without taking any account at all of the stock on the premises on April 1st; what that was I do not know—the total number of ferrules consigned between April 1st and December 31st was about 1,735 gross, but I can give you the figures of which that amount is composed—I took stock again about April 1st, 1891, and there was a deficiency of 811 gross—I have no record of the total number—I have no record of the sales between 1st January and 30th March; I only have the result—I cannot remember making any inquiry about Goatly's character, but I feel certain we did—when I dismissed him on 21st March, I do not remember saying, "You have been disposing of these goods to various persons, and we nave every proof "—my solicitor was with me; he did not, I believe, say so—I do not believe I said then, "We shall apply for warrants for your arrest," but I certainly told him se afterwards—I do not remember his saying, "I heard some time since that there were a few goods offered for sale in the market at lower prices, and endeavoured to trace where they came from, or whether I was told so by others—I inquired of Mr. Mellish, Mr. Harlow, and several others—I employed Mozer, a private inquiry agent, and went with him on Monday, March 23rd, to our office—Goatly had been discharged on the Saturday, and I do not remember seeing him that day—he did not say, "I know nothing of the missing stock; we are anxious that the matter should be cleared up, as our reputation is of greater value than the missing stock"—my brother is not here—I applied for warrants, but they were not granted—I was told to give them in custody, but did not do so till April 6th—I have been served with a writ for slander, but I have never opened it.

Re-examined, On March 21st, when I made the discovery, I immediately communicated with my solicitor, and Mozer was employed—I went to Guildhall on 21st March and swore an information against the four prisoners, and applied at once to the Alderman for warrants—I then communicated with the City Police, and Mr. Davidson, from the Old Jewry, was appointed to conduct the case—he thought some inquiries were necessary—Messrs. Michael Abrahams and Co.'s name is on the writ—I have heard no more of it—when I came up on 20th March I brought up certain papers by which I could check the stock, and the total consignment of stock was brought up afterwards—I had extracts from the books showing the total return of sales by Goatly, and arrived at the result I have told you—I was very

careful, but we can never tell the full extent of our loss, because we did not know the full amount of Corder's stock, but I have given in over and above the amount of it—I only go upon the amount of stock sent up—if Corder's stock is there, so much the better for us, but it does not lessen the deficiency.

JAMES PHELPS . I am an umbrella and walking-stick manufacturer, of 137, St. John's Road, Hoxton—I kept a shop a month before Christmas, but do not now—about October, 1890, I saw Edward Rudman at my shop, Pimlico Walk, Hoxton—he brought about half a dozen samples of metal handles similar to these, and said they were his own—I did not buy any—he did not give me his address—he came again three or four days afterwards with samples of handles, but I did not purchase any; and again a few days after that—I told him I was buying them cheaper somewhere else—he then called with ferrules done up in packets similar to these—there was no label on the first lot—I purchased twenty-three gross at 4s. a gross, and took this invoice. (Dated 19.11; 23 gross assorted ferrules, at 4s., £4 11s. 5 per cent, discount)—I saw him write that and receipt it, "G. White and Co., 3, Morland Street, Goswell Road"—on 20th November he came again alone; I had not seen his brother at that time—I had another deal with him, "36 gross assorted ferrules, at 1s. a gross, £1 16s.—G. H. WHITE "—he called again alone, and I had another deal, "2 gross and 4 dozen assorted handles, at 2s., £2 16s.—Received, H. WHITE"; and again on the 28th, "80 gross ferrules, at 1s.—Paid, H. WHITE"—on 12th December here is a bill of H. White for forty-four gross, of ferrules—those are all the receipts I produce, but I have had dealings with him in the same articles; altogether I have had six or seven hundred gross of ferrules, and two gross and four dozen handles—my last dealing with Edward was about a month before the case came on—about a month after I first saw Edward, Harry came with him, and they were nearly always together afterwards—Edward did all the bargaining and wrote the receipt and took the money, he was generally the spokesman—the third lot had a label on them, "Wright and Harrington," and I said, These come from the firm of Wright and Harrington—he said, "Yes, that is right, they are my own goods, I bought them; there is nothing to fear, it is all right"—I knew the name, but I did not know the firm—when he came again I said, "It is curious you can sell them so cheap"—he said, "The manager at Wright and Harrington's is my brother, and I get them cheaper than anyone else"—I did not feel satisfied with that answer, and sent my card to Wright and Harrington's by a man named Artis, at Bartholomew Lane; he knew the address; he came back in the evening and saw me—after that I had another deal, and the label was on again—Edward said to me, "You was a fool to send in your card, I told you it was all right, and there was nothing to fear; I have sold them at lots of places in the City"—I said, "I have not received the answer yet; they are going to send me a price-list, but they have not done so"—he came again and brought goods with labels on, and said, "You sent a man into the City to sell these ferrules near where they came from; the firm your man went to have wrote to the firm about it"—I said, "You did not tell me not; you said they were all right, and he could go where he liked"—I had sent a man to sell them, Barnett—Edward said, "You did not ought to go near the firm to sell them"—I said, "I don't care where

he sells them if he buys them of me; it seems funny you don't want me to go to the City to sell them"—he said, "Well, I buy them off Goatly and Slade, and it is all right," so I did not think much more about it after that, but if I wanted any I bought them—I did not get a price-list—Edward said that Goatly was his brother and the manager—I asked Harry if that was right—he said, "It is a lie; Goatly is the manager, but he is not my brother"—I have never spoken to Goatly or Slade in my life—it never occurred to me to go to the warehouse and get a price-list for myself—I recollect being seen by a police officer, and a night or so before that Edward Rudman called at my house at Hoxton, and said, "I have come to tell you that there is a bother about the ferrules; Mr. Wright has come to London, and has been into his firm in the City to inquire about the loss of these ferrules, and I have come round to tell you about it; if you have any I will take them off your hands myself to save you from getting into trouble, as I have got a shop now where I can take them"—"I said, "What I have bought I shall keep; I have only a few left; as I have paid you for them I shan't give them to you back again"—he said, "Will, you trust me with half a gross-of walking-sticks to put in my shop?"—I refused—he said I was not to be surprised if Mr. Wright and the detective called on me that night, as he had seen them going up Pimlico Walk, where I used to live, and he had been in an umbrella shop that afternoon, Mr. Bunn's, in Brick Lane, and Mr. Wright and the detective had called there, but did not know him, and he left to give the other ones the tip, and mentioned Small and Curney and Mr. Bull, of the City Road, and Bignell, and said, "Whatever becomes of this case I will never bring Goatly or Slade into it"—Harry Rudman was present at that time—Brown was at my place for about two minutes—he is a stick-seller—I knew before they came that all the articles I was buying were very much under the price—I knew Bunn—I I have only seen the boy, John Rudman, once.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I never saw Goatly or Slade—I never went to 53, Aldermanbury to make inquiries—Rudman said, "I can supply you myself; the manager is my brother, and I can get them cheaper that anyone else at certain times; parcels are made up for me, and I call for them in the morning or at dinner-time, and they are given to me"—when he found fault with me for disposing of them so near the place of business of the firm, I thought of going to 53, Aldermanbury, but he said, "It is all right, don't you trouble"—his words were, "Whatever comes to pass I will not bring Goatly or Slade into it; I would suffer death first"—he said that Goatly was a gentleman—I knew that the two Rudmans had a brother in the service of Goatly and Slade; he came to me once, he is about sixteen—about thirty gross of ferrules were brought on that occasion; I cannot say whether he carried any of them—Rudman said, "This is my brother"—he is a witness for the prosecution—I did not say to him, "Is this done with the authority of the firm?" I never spoke to him; he only came with his brother, and I had no occasion to ask him; what could I do more than send in my card?

Cross-examined by Edward Rudman. I also bought goods of Bunn—about a month after I knew you you introduced your brother—you sold the thirty-six gross on 20th November at ninepence, and I asked you to make the bill out at a shilling—I entered a false amount because you

said they would sell better—I do not remember asking you to make out the bill for double money; I did not ask you if the goods were to be kept quiet; that is a get up, no such thing—there is a bill and receipt made out at six shillings a gross, and I paid you three shillings a gross; you suggested that—I did not say to you, "Give any address"—I authorised my wife to pay you two shillings a dozen for the handles, not a shilling; I have not bought anything of you this year—I hare fire receipts here, but through moving I have mislaid five or six others—I did not tell you not to fear, it was not you the police wanted—I sent my card to the firm for a price-list—you asked me for two or three cards, and went round and said you were selling for me—I moved from Pimlico "Walk in February; I had, I think, two transactions with you at St. Joints Road—you left some silver-mounted sticks about a month ago when I was out, and I would not have anything to do with them—I bought goods of you three weeks before you were arrested; you say I owe you £8, but I do not; you told me you were starving, and I gave you a half-crown; you said that you walked the streets for two nights—I never owed you anything; you took good care of that.

Cross-examined by Harry Rudman. You did not give your name as White, but your brother did—I never saw Goatly and Slade till this case came on, but your brother mentioned their names several times in your company, and you mentioned them also—I swear you were present when your brother had a conversation with me about Mr. "Wright.

MARK BARNETT . I am a stickmaker, of 247, Cable Street East—I have known both the Rudmans since the Saturday before Good Friday—I was with Phelps taking a ramble round Hoxton, and the two Rudmans came along; Phelps spoke to them first, and went into his own house; I waited outside, and the two Rudmans waited some distance from me; I did not speak to them—I had no ferrules in my pocket, but I had received some from Phelps and a man named Bunn—I have none now; I only bought them to sell; I sold them all—I met the two Rudmans a few yards from the Robin Hood, and went in there with them and Phelps—I told Edward I was surprised he could get so many ferrules as he did—he said, "My brother is employed there"—I said I had looked for him on several occasions—he said, "Where?"—I said, "When I was in the neighbourhood of Aldermanbury; I looked outside White and Harrington's firm to see whether I could see you, but not knowing you I did not know who to look for; if I had seen anyone come down with a parcel I should have put it down as you"—he said he saw me outside, and took me for a policeman—I said, "I do not think it is possible for your brother to bring out large parcels like that"—he said, "It is generally done at dinner-time"—I said, "Somebody must have known something about it besides your brother"—he said he would sooner suffer ten years' imprisonment than he would bring Goatly into it; Goatly was a gentleman; he took an oath and said Goatly knew nothing about it—I told him I tried to sell some to Bignolles—he said he had sold them hundreds of gross; they had had more than anybody—they are umbrella manufacturers—he asked if I had sold the goods in my own name—I said yes—he said I was a fool to do so—I said I cannot alter my name, as I had been doing business with the people some years—he asked me if I had a receipt for the ferrules; I

said no—he offered to make one out, which I declined—I had not bought any of him; I never made any purchases of him in my life; I never saw him before that night.

By the COURT. I had between 150 and 200 gross of ferrules from Phelps and Bunn—some had the name of Wright and Harrington on then, and some had not.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I thought the ferrules might have come from some long firm, who obtained them on credit, and that I might buy them of the people who sold them to him a little cheaper—when Edward said, "My brother is employed there," he did not say John—I do not know whether John Rudman was left there at dinner-time—he said God strike him blind he would sooner die than bring Goatly into it, and would rather suffer ten years—I never heard Blade's name mentioned.

Cross-examined by Edward Rudman. You were in my company about three hours, from ten o'clock till the public-houses shut—I left you outside at 12.30.

Re-examined. Seeing the goods marked Wright and Harrington I thought I would watch the premises—I saw the boy John Rudman before the Alderman.

HENEY CURLEY . I am an umbrella-maker, of 15, Hoxton Street—I know Edward Rudman as White—I saw Harry in his company once, but know nothing of him, or of Goatly or Slade—about the end of February Edward Rudman came to my shop alone, and asked if I could do anything with ferrules—I knew there were a lot in the market, and I told him I had already ordered a lot, and said, "I know who you are from: Phelps"—he said, "I am travelling for Phelps"—he was a man I bought of—he asked me what I would pay for them, and asked me one and twopence a gross for these ferrules, and then brought them down to ninepence per gross, and I gave him an order for ten or twelve gross—a fortnight afterwards he brought me twenty-five gross, which I took—these are some.; I have the others at home—they were in packets, with Wright and Harrington's label on them—he gave me the name of White when he came—I don't think I took any invoice; he gave me no receipt—that is the usual way I do business—a few days afterwards he called again, and asked if I could do with anything else; I said I had been round and could not get any more orders; it seamed that everybody was full up with them—I had been with them to Mr. King's and other shops, and tried to sell them, and found they were well-stocked with that article—I told him to call again—after he had gone away I saw Barnett in Lombard Street (where I stand with walking-sticks and umbrellas), and I had a conversation with him about White—when I got home I found a parcel of thirty gross more, with Wright and Harrington's labels on them; they had been left with my missus, no written message was left with them—Barnett took them away, and sold them—Edward Rudman waited till I came home; he told me there were thirty gross, and I paid him sixpence a gross: fifteen shillings—I had told him previously I could not take any more, but I had found a market in the meantime through Barnett—I took this receipt from him. (The receipt was dated 22nd February, 1891, and was for sixty gross)—he made out the receipt for sixty, and I gave him level money—the receipt is supposed to be for the two transaction, the twenty-five and thirty; the

price is put at one shilling a gross, because I told him the market was full up and I could not sell them, and giving him 9d. a gross for the first twenty-five, he said, "I will give you a receipt for 1s."—I paid 6d. a gross for the second lot—I did not look at the receipt—it was altered to 1s. because I might get a better market for them and get 1s. back—I thought it an honest transaction—I asked him where he got them, and he told me he was a traveller from Phelps, and I asked no further questions—I did not know they were very much under the price, and they are not under the price I am sure; I am in the line.

cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have never seen Goatly or Slade, or had any transaction with them, or any knowledge of them—I never saw John Rudman with his brother—until I saw him at the Police-court I knew nothing about him—I did not know he was employed at Wright and Harrington's.

Cross-examined by Edward Rudman. I saw you on the Saturday before you were arrested—I saw Phelps give you 2s. 6d. in a public-house; not 10s.—there was an arrangement about money he owed you; I went away—I cannot say I remember advising him to give you 10s.—I cannot say if he owed you several pounds; you were in deep conversation with him; I don't know what it was about.

JOHN EUDMAN . I am sixteen, and the brother of the two Rudmans, the prisoners—I live at home with my mother and father at 328, Compton Buildings, Goswell Road—before I went to Wright and Harrington's I was at Moore and Company's, Westmoreland Buildings, Aldersgate Street, umbrella makers; Slade was in their employment—I left Moore and Company at Christmas, 1889—about April Mr. Moore told me to go round to Wright and Harrington's—I saw there first Slade, and afterwards Goatly—I was taken on there as parcels boy on the following Monday—I had to run errands and clean up the place, and nut it to rights—there was only one entrance-door to Wright and Harrington's premises, which are all on the first floor; it does not communicate with other premises—other people are in the building, but Wright and Harrington had the first floor, and there is one entrance-door from the landing, and when that is locked there is no means of getting into their premises without breaking in—Goatly generally kept the key when the place was locked up at night; sometimes I took it—if I got there before them in the morning I had to wait—Slade sometimes took the key—during part of the time I was with the prosecutors my brothers lived at homo; I cannot say when they left and lodged elsewhere—Goatly and Slade were sometimes out together in the dinner-hour, so that I was left alone in the warehouse—during the other part of the day either one or the other would be in to receive customers; once or twice they were both out in the afternoon, leaving me alone—I had nothing to do with the books except a parcels book that I took out—I have never seen either of my brothers at the warehouse or outside it—I have never, when I have gone in in the morning, found any disturbance of the stock, or any sign of the stock having been pulled about or altered since the warehouse had been locked up the previous night—I have never taken out parcels of goods belonging to Wright and Harrington and given them to either of my brothers—I have never taken out any parcels except those I was ordered to take out by my master, or by Goatly or Slade-soon after I began work at Wright and Harrington's Goatly did

not tell me to go over to Corder's for some sticks—either Mr. Osborne or Mr. Wright sent me over, and I fetched a bundle of ten dozen sticks to the warehouse—about 20th March Mr. Wright came to the warehouse, and took me into the office, and spoke to me—Goatly and Slade were not there—I was not present when Mr. Wright spoke to Goatly or Slade afterwards—when Mr. Wright came up on that occasion I was putting some of Wright and Harrington's ferrules on to some sticks—Slade had told me to do that—after Mr. Wright had taken me away and talked to me, and I came back, those ferrules had been taken away—I afterwards saw them in a box with some other odd things—I took them out of the box and showed them to Mr. Wright—it was talked about in the warehouse that Mr. Wright was coming up, and when it was said he was coming up, sometimes Goatly and sometimes Slade asked me to put Goatly and Slade's sticks away—sometimes I had done something to those sticks, sometimes not—I know Abel; his place is close by Aldermanbury—at different times I have received instructions from Goatly and Slade to take sticks on which I had put ferrules from Wright and Harrington's stock to Abel's to finish; that was his business.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. Goatly and Slade were carrying on a business of their own in selling sticks, their own property—I cannot say how many sticks I took to Abel's, more than one hundred, not one thousand—I took the ferrules from those on Wright and Harrington's premises—I knew my brothers lived in lodgings at 83, Morland Street, City Road—I gave my evidence at the Police-court before Mrs. Gaverston was called; it was read over to me, and I said it was correct—I said, "I have never been to Mrs. Gaverston's, of 83, Morland Street—I have been there, but not inside; I have been two or three times to see whether my brother was in, and he was not—I have never put my foot inside the door once—I heard Mrs. Gaverston give evidence, and say, "The witness Rudman I have seen there every night," and that I was with my brother there every night—that is untrue—I was never there—when I was left last at Wright and Harrington's I took the key and let myself in in the morning—I was not very often left last to take the key home—sometimes for four or six months I have not had the key—I don't know how many times I have had it—sometimes I left at half-past six or seven, sometimes late—generally we all left together, but not always—I only had the key once in the last four or six months—I cannot say when that was—T don't know the date of my discharge—for about six months before my discharge in March I had only had the key once; I cannot say in what month I then had the key; I was not the last person on the premises, to take the key once a week, I swear that—every day I was the only person on the premises in the dinner-hour—sometimes, but very seldom, Goatly would have his dinner there, but the rule was that every day I was left for the dinner-hour—Goatly and Slade would go out between one and two, and be away for half an hour or more sometimes—it might have been a little more than an hour sometimes; sometimes I would have the key once a week, and then not for a long time—I do not know when my brothers left home, or why they left; they never came home again, but' I have seen them two or three times since—my sister told me where they lived—I live with my mother—I know Phelps; I never went to him with my two brothers, and never carried him ferrules

to sell—I heard his evidence before the Magistrate two weeks ago, but not here—I had not thirty gross of ferrules to sell; it is not true—on 20th March Mr. Wright asked me if I had heard anything of the robbery—I said, "No," and that Mr. Arbour had come and said that the goods were being sold about, and they had been to his place—I was not present when Goatly asked Arbour to allow a detective to be put in—Mr. Wright asked when it was—I said, "Some time ago"—he did not ask me whether I had anything to do with the robbery, but he did afterwards, and I said, "No"—he did not say, "You had better make a clean breast about it, and you can be called as a witness"—I saw Morgan on Saturday, the 21st, and perhaps half a dozen times—I knew he was a detective—I never heard that statements had been made that I supplied my brothers with the ferrules—I did not hear Mr. Barnett examined at Guildhall; I heard Mr. Phelps once—I never saw my brothers in company of Goatly or Slade; as far as I know, neither of them knew my brothers.

SARAH ANN GAVEBSTON . I am the wife of John Gaverston, of 83, Morland Street, City Road—at the end of last August Edward Rudman came to me about lodgings, and said he wanted his brother to stay with him two or three days, but the two stayed with me from August to November—they only had one room and one bed—Edward told me he had a firm in the City, and his business was umbrella handles, and he had a firm of his own in Birmingham, but they had failed—I saw nothing come in; I had my family to attend to, but I saw them take leather bags out and stick handles—they were in bed during the day, and rose about twelve, two, three, or four in the afternoon, and went out, and were out at night—they had a black bag, a box, and, I think, a carpet bag—Edward told me that during his holidays last year they had employed a fresh boy at the firm in the City, and he labelled the parcels wrong, and Edward Rudman had to relabel them—I saw some of' the parcels, but my sight is very bad, so I never looked to see what the letters were—I did not notice that they had been so re-labelled—they were always carrying out the same bag—I did not see them bring them in; they had a key each—they came in from nine at night to three or four a.m.—Edward asked me if letters came in the name of White to take care of them, but I saw none—Edward Rudman put a tip on my daughter's umbrella; this is the handle (produced)—a young man named Cartwright was there.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have seen their brother John there too many times, Sundays and all nights—he came and ordered bread and butter, eggs, tea, and bacon, and never paid for them, nor did his brothers pay—he did not sleep there to my knowledge—it is not true that he only came three times, and asked for his brothers when they were not at home, and that he never entered my door; he has been down in my kitchen.

Cross-examined by Edward Rudman. Your brother carried the bag out, but you always carried something out—Tom Cartwright used to carry the bag—you were not always there when your brother came—John was there sometimes early in the morning before we were up.

By MR. FULTON. I have not seen John taking bags out—I never saw Goatly or Slade there, but they might have been there without my seeing them.

CATHERINE MATILDA SCHNIDER . I am the wife of George James

Schnider, a billiard-marker, of Fairbank Street, New North Road, and let rooms—in the first week in February I let a bedroom to Edward and Harry Rudman at 8s. a week—they sometimes got up at one o'clock, sometimes at three, and sometimes they laid in bed till 8 p.m.—they went out at night and came back at all hours, sometimes between 3 and 4 a.m.—I gave them two latch-keys—they brought in parcels of sticks, and bundles of umbrellas, and ferrules, handles and sticks with metal mountings, which were placed on the bed for a quarter or half an hour, and then taken away—I saw green paper on the sticks with names beginning with "W. and H."—I do not recollect what the names were—they took the umbrellas out of the brown paper with the green label, and put them into brown paper without a label, and as they passed downstairs Edward used to say, "Will you take those papers out or my room to be thrown away?"—the eldest one said that he had been in the fur line, and had not been successful, and had taken up the umbrella and stick line—I have seen them bring in and take out seven or eight parcels altogether—they left on March 21st—on the last day they were there I gave Edward notice to quit, and he told me there was a warrant out for him, and he expected to be arrested, and if he was caught he should get five or ten years, because he had been buying stolen, property, and did not know it was stolen, and he had had his beard shaved off so that nobody should know him—young Rudman was not present then—they both went off that night—Harry used to bring in the sticks, and Edward the ferrules.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. Other persons came to their room, but I did not always see them—the boy John generally came on Saturdays and Sundays, and waited a little time and went away again—they were at my place between five and six weeks from February to 23rd March, a very few days before they were taken in custody.

Cross-examined by Edward Rudman. A Mr. Murray brought a parcel once.

Cross-examined by Harry Rudman. I came up once and saw you doing a parcel up—I saw you bring in a bundle of sticks, and you have comedown and asked for a little whitening to clean them up.

ALBERT STAR . I am an umbrella dealer of 3 and 4, Hyde Park Corner; I have bought goods of Edward Rudman—about six weeks before Christmas ho showed me some metal stick handles done up in tissue paper and in a black bag—he said he had been selling a great many about London, and was recommended to me by my brother, who is in the same business—I asked him where they came from; he said, "From Birmingham," and I understood that he was the manufacturer—I bought 2 1/2 dozen at 18s. a dozen, and for these (others) 9s. all round—I did not take any receipt, and made no entry in my books.

J. L. WRIGHT (Re-examined.) These ferrules and sticks are our goods—I can help Mr. Fulton in making up the deficiency.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have looked it up; the amount of ferrules sent up between April 1st and the end of the year was 428 gross, and the amount sold 225 gross; there ought to be 233 gross in stock, the deficiency is 91 gross—I do not know whether there were 112 at Christmas; this is Goatly's return—we sent up 781 gross of ferrules, sold 567, and the balance should be 274; stock made out 107; deficiency 137—Goutly's account readied us early in January, and we could have seen that

the stock was deficient by 91 gross; but we did not find it out till April—we knew enough to arouse our suspicion, and we wrote to Goatly, but did not say that there was a deficiency of 91 gross—early in February we telegraphed to Goatly to come down to Birmingham—I wrote several letters asking where the stock was gone, and what small quantities were being sold—I came up to London in March, when I came back from America, and told him so.

By the COURT. We sent up of size 5-7 1/2 816 gross; sold 575 gross; balance remaining 241; stock taken by Goatly, 192; deficiency, 49 gross; of size 9, 147 gross sent up; sold 105 gross; balance, 40 gross; stock at Christmas, 15 1/2 gross; deficiency, 24 1/2 gross; of size 9 1/4, sent up 150 gross; sold 100 1/2 gross; 49 1/2 gross balance; stock returned by Goatly, 39 gross; deficiency, 11 1/2 gross, and I have other deficiencies; there is 1/2-inch steel end ferrules 23 gross, and steel end ferrules 53 gross—that is all I have here.

By MR. FULTON. Goatly's remuneration was 2 1/2 per cent, commission and no salary—Slade got fifteen shillings a week and no commission—Goatly's commission came to £75, £80 or £85 between 1st April and March, but he has received more: he owes us money—I seriously suggest that I believed he had no other business, but he had another agency—we gave our sanction to two other agencies, Couffman and Ward, one for sticks and the other for ribs.

Re-examined. When we commenced sending goods to Goatly we made out a sheet of the goods we sent up; that was copied in a letterpress copybook—it was his duty to put them into stock, and keep a record of them; and when he sold goods he kept a record, and sent us a copy—when we received his sheet in January we accepted it as correct; but after we began to look into the matter we discovered irregularities, and sent for him—I was away in America in December and in the New Year—after I had seen him in Birmingham I prosecuted further inquiries, and came up on March 20th—I commenced taking stock on April 1st, according to his stock list, and subsequently I compared the sheet of goods remitted with the goods sold, and the result came out as I have told you.

JOHN DAVIDSON (City Police Inspector). On 7th April, about 7.30, I saw Edward Rudman at the City Police Office, Old Jewry, detained by Detective Austin—I said, "I am a police officer; you have been identified as a person who with another young man has sold a large quantity of umbrella furniture, the property of Messrs. Wright and Harrington, of Birmingham and 53, Aldermanbury; the property has been stolen from 53, Aldermanbury; you have been selling it in the name of White"—he said, "I have sold it, I bought it of a man named White, that is the reason I sold it in the name of White. I have sometimes got a profit from what I have sold, and other times I have sold it for less than what I gave for it. Why don't you take the people in custody who bought it of me? they knew the value, I did not; I think I can find White, I believe he lives in King's Square, Goswell Road; I think I shall find him at Brighton, he told me he was going there, as it was too warm for him to stop here "—I took him to Moor Lane Station and charged him with being-concerned with Goatly and Slade, in custody, and another person not in custody, in stealing and receiving a large quantity of umbrella furniture, value £500 and upwards, the property of Wright and Harrington—he said, "It is a lie to say I stole it "—the inspector asked his

address; he said, "I have no fixed address; I was turned out of 19 Fairbank Street about a week ago because I could not pay the rent"—in answer to a question, he said, "I do not know the other man who was with me"—I said, "Where did you sleep last night?"—he said, "I don't know; it was with a woman"—he was charged; nothing pertaining to the cheque was found on him—on April 8th I was with Detective Holmes in Goswell Road, and saw Harry Rudman; I said, "I am a police-officer; your brother is in custody charged with being concerned with two others in stealing a quantity of umbrella furniture"—he said, "Umbrella furniture? I don't know what you mean "—I said, "You have been present when your brother has sold quantities of ferrules and umbrella handles in the name of White"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I said, "You were present when receipts were made out in the name of White; do you know Mr. Phelps?"—he said, "I have heard the name"—I took him to Mr. Wright, who was close by, and we went together to Moor Lane Police-station, where I confronted him with Phelps, and said to Phelps, "Do you know this man?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Is ha the young man who has been present with the other young man, when you have purchased umbrella fittings?"—he said, "Yes "—I said, "Has he been present when the receipts were made out in the name of White?"—he said, "Yes"—Harry Rudman said, "How can you say that, Mr. Phelps?"—he was then charged—on April 6th I took Goatly and Slade, at 109, Mildmay Grove, Mildmay Park; they occupied apartments there—I said, "I am a detective officer of the City Police; you must consider yourselves in custody on a charge of being concerned with others not in custody, in stealing and receiving large quantities of umbrella furniture, the property of Messrs. Wright and Harrington, of Birmingham and Aldermanbury, and you will have to accompany me to the station"—Slade said, "I can only say we are innocent of this matter"—Goatly made no reply.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I understood Slade was speaking for both.

Goatly and Slade received good characters.

Edward Rudman's Defence. The ferrules were given to me to sell last November by a friend of Mr. Phelps, who gave me the address where to go, and the money I took for the goods I brought to him in Phelps' company. My brother was not with me; he had nothing to do with it. I deny ever mentioning the name of Goatly or Slade. If Mr. Barnett was there so often, why did not he see me? Because I was never there. I never denied having the ferrules, but I deny having the quantity they say.

Harry Rudman's Defence. The evidence of Phelps is utterly false. I have only been in his company two or three times with my brother in a public-house. I have never been in his house at all. He bought large quantities of these ferrules much under cost price, and he is trying to get an innocent person into prison. I have never disposed of any goods or done business with anybody. I never mentioned Goatly or Slade to Phelps. I never knew their names till this case commenced; as to my being present when my brother wrote the receipt, I never mentioned anything of the kind, it has been made up since we have been in prison. I have been in prison five weeks, and know nothing whatever

about the charge. I have been brought into this mess through going to live with my brother.

Witness for Rudman's Defence.

EMILY RADFORD . I am the mother of the two Rudmans by my first marriage, and live in Compton Street, Goswell Road—my husband is a clerk—my business is swann trimming—Harry assisted me in my business and took out parcels for me, and he brought his dirty linen home and took clean away—those are the parcels Mrs. Schnider mentions.

GOATLY and SLADE— NOT GUILTY . EDWARD RUDMAN— GUILTY of receivingEighteen Months' Hard Labour, HARRY RUDMAN— GUILTY of receiving.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Nine Months' Hard Labour.

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