JOHN EDWARD BARGE.
10th September 1883
Reference Numbert18830910-847
VerdictGuilty > unknown
SentenceImprisonment > hard labour

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847. JOHN EDWARD BARGE (20) , Unlawfully mutilating a certain book, and omitting certain material particulars from the said book, with intent to defraud the Army and Navy Co-operative Stores, his masters.

MESSRS. POLAND and FULTON Prosecuted; MR. GRAIN Defended.

CHARLES HENRY BARSTOW . I am manager of the Stationery Department of the Army and Navy Co-operative Society, Victoria Street—the prisoner was a counterman in that department in August and September last year, and at the same time Rhodes was employed there as cashier—

there were two cashiers at desks A and B—desk A was Dawson's desk—I do not know that a customer from the prisoner's counter would go to desk A—a member would go to the counterman and ask for the goods, they would be submitted for approval, selection would be made, and bills made out in triplicate—this (produced) is one of the books of our department, and contains 200 pages of bills in triplicate—the counterman would make out the bill—two pieces of carbon paper are inserted in the. book for the purpose of producing three impressions by the act of writing out the first first bill—the first two of each three bills are perforated, and are torn out by the counterman: the third leaf, which is not perforated, should remain in the book, and would be a record of the particular transaction with a particular customer—on each bill ought to be entered the goods sold, the number of the ticket, the name of the customer, the counterman's number and initials, and date—the foreman checks it generally, to see if the amount is correct, and puts his initials on it—the two bills torn out are given to the member, who takes them to the cashier—the large letter, A or B, on the bill indicates (which desk the member should go to—he gives the money and two bills to the cashier, who stamps one of them and returns it to the member as his receipt, and retains the other one—the customer takes the first bill back to the counterman, gets the goods, and goes away—at the end of the day each cashier makes a summary of the day's sales, on a form used for that purpose—it should contain the amount of each transaction throughout the day, if it was done correctly, and then it is added up—the counterman should write it himself, but sometimes when they are busy he would dictate it and another one write it—the counterman is responsible for the accuracy of the total record of the transactions—the cashier would enter in his cash-book from the two bills the name of the customer, and amount and number of the bill, for the purpose of referring to the counterman's slip—at the end of the day the cashier adds up the total of the day's transactions—the check that he has correctly accounted for all the money received during the day, is that the foreman makes a summary from the counterman's slips, and if they correspond the counterman goes home—the slip is made out from the counterman's book—the foreman only checks the total, and not with the counterman's book; we do that now—book 63, page 14263, bears the prisoner's initials at the bottom—the date is 25th August, 1882, and on it is "7d.," then 7, the counterman's number, "26/8/82, J. E. B."—that is written in pencil by the prisoner; it is his signature—there is omitted from that page the member's number, name, and a list of the goods sold—page 14288, 28th August, 1882, bears Barge's signature also—the description of the goods is omitted—the name of the customer is S. Winter, Esq., and the amount 8s. 4d.—page 14300 is on 29th August, 1882, for 3s. 9d.—the member's name and ticket number are omitted (the ticket number is 41025, on 28th August)—in these two instances as well as the first, the entries are in pencil, and not the impression left by the carbon in book 64—an entry on page 25945 is also the prisoner's, and bears his name; the ticket number, the name of the customer, and the goods are omitted from that—the date is 2nd August, and the amount 9d.—that is in pencil—in 25964, on 3rd August, there is omitted the ticket number, the customer's name, and the description of the goods—the amount is 3d.—25995 on 5th August has omitted also ticket number, name of the customer, and the description of

the goods—the amount is 8d.—those entries are also in pencil—I have examined the cashier's book relating to these dates in one or two instances, not in all—in book 63, page 14210 is gone—all three are gone—pages 14243, 14308, 14340, and 14354 on 1st September are also gone; 14382 on 4th September is gone, 14383 on the same date is gone, also 14388, 14397, and 11399, all on September 6th—there are other leaves left in the book in his writing on the same day—the whole of the book is in the prisoner's writing—no one counterman has any right to use the book of any other counterman—in book 64, 39972, on 11th September, is missing—39973 on the same day is also missing—there are pages in the prisoner's writing on the same day before and after those—39938 on 13th September, 39813 on 7th September, and 39821 on the same day are missing—where the leaves are left in the book the impressions are principally carbon, here and there touched up, but there is always a mark of carbon—where there is the full bill in page 14336 is in his writing—that remains; it is in carbon, and is made out in the name of Sworder, ticket number 38735, 5s. 3d. for a lock purse on 1st September—I cannot say whose writing the daily summary is in, the figures look like the prisoner's; I could not swear, but I believe they are his.

WILLIAM CHAMBERLAIN (Police Inspector). I arrested the prisoner on 25th June on a charge of conspiring with others and embezzling various sums of money—he said "I can't see how you can charge me with embezzlement when I did not receive the money"—I said "You are charged with conspiring with one who did receive the money;" he made no reply—I showed him slips R and S, the daily summaries for 1st and 2nd September—he said "The whole of the figures are not in my handwriting, but the total figures are in my writing; they are the figures of some one else, I cannot say who; sometimes another clerk calls them over, sometimes one and sometimes another, and then I told them up and put the figures to the total."

Cross-examined. He looked at the summaries, and said he did not write any of the figures of those I showed him except the totals—I charged him, and he was charged at the police-court with conspiring with Lisle—he is not one of the defendants—I was told afterwards it was my mistake—I told him he was charged with embezzlement—he is charged here to-day with embezzlement in respect of two sums, one of which is this 5s. 3d., and the other 10s.—I cannot say if these are the only charges of embezzlement on the files of the Court, I have not seen the indictment—I can't say if there is only one indictment for embezzlement—I was before the Grand Jury—I believe there were two or three indictments before them.

CHARLES HENRY BARSTOW (Continued). The prisoner is responsible at the end of the day for the fact of his sheet corresponding with the cashier's sheet, and he alone, and he is not permitted to leave the stores until it is made right—on slip R the 5s. 3d. appears as 3d.—I have compared it with the others for that day; with that exception they are all right—14357 is in the name of Taylor, ticket number 14869, 10s. 6d.—there is no other entry on that page—that is entered on the cash summary as 6d.—14340 and 14354 on 1st September which were torn out appear on the daily summary for 5d. and 7d.—I see the amounts before and after them—14354 is the last amount on that day—I have been through the daily summary and the book, in all cases where leaves are torn out—

the amounts entered on the daily summary are small, 14382, 5d.; 14383, 8d.; 14388, 6d.; 14397, 10d.; 14399, 2d.; 39972, 5d.; 39973, 1d.; 39978, 4d.; 39918, 1s.; 39919, 3d.—if a leaf was torn out of a book by accident it would be the counterman's duty to report it to the foreman—the books remain in the counterman's place till they accumulate, and then they are carried away—I believe the summaries for August have been destroyed; we don't keep them long—the September ones are complete.

Cross-examined. I am manager of the stationery department, and I think ail the departments are worked on the same principle—there are a permanent and a relief cashier to each counterman—I think Rhodes was the prisoner's permanent cashier—if I have said that customers, from him would go to Dawson's desk that is right—I was told the cashier was Dawson at that date, I don't know from my own knowledge—the relief cashier would take the post of cashier for the dinner hour—I believe a special relief cashier was told off for days or weeks, as might be—the customer would give the relief cashier the two invoices, and he would keep one and give the other back—the relief cashier would give an account before he leaves to the cashier, who would have to account at the end of the day—I don't know how the relief and permanent cashiers settle it—at the end of the day the foreman checks the totals of the cashier's and counterman's summaries, not the accounts, only the totals—he has other duties—he does not add it up—it is no check if the men like to conspire—if a man made a mistake and the other found it out that would not be a check—the counterman adds up his own castings—the castings and the totals in the cashier's book are checked in the chief cashier's office on the following day, the summaries were not checked at that date—the counterman's totals are only checked by the foreman—the counterman's and cashier's summaries were not checked by anybody, the foreman looked at the figures at the bottom to see if they corresponded—no one checks the cashier's and counterman's summaries with the counterman's book—with reference to these entries in pencil instead of carbon we charge the prisoner with falsifying the books, I believe—it should have been written in carbon; the members' names and numbers and description of goods should have been given—the figures in every case are put at the bottom, purporting to be the amounts received by the prisoner for goods sold and delivered, and every one of those amounts has been carried into his summary and also into his cashier's daily summary, and subsequently into the cashier's book—I have been carefully through this book, and I believe I have given you every instance where he has used pencil instead of carbon—14299 in book 63 is in pencil, I have not given that, it is a complete bill, Larkham, Esq., a letter-balance, pen, &c.; it is with pencil—he may have had some reason to fill it in afterwards—there are not dozens of cases in these books where pencil has been used—the next one, 14300, is in pencil; that is charged in the indictment—he has there given particulars of the goods, and cast them out, but omitted name and number, and we have no means of checking it; if the name of the ticket-holder had appeared there I would have undertaken to check it—each ticket-holder's name and number is registered—I am not aware that scores of people use the ticket of one person; they may lend them—people are supposed to produce their ticket, and we refuse them if they have not one; a

notice is up, and has been for months—I cannot say how many in a thousand are asked to show their ticket; sometimes we have special orders for a certain time to ask for them—it is a practice for persons who hold entirely different names to that of the registered number, to go and buy goods under that ticket, but not in scores of cases—if Snooks had gone in the name of Brown we should have known to whom the ticket was given and have gone to him; if he said he gave it to many persons we should have gone to each one; we could easily find who it was—if you came and bought goods under the guise of No. so-and-so we should not find fault with you afterwards if we found it out—the chief grounds on which I suggest we have been defrauded is that the amounts are very small—the number of leaves torn out from the book are 15, I think, altogether—I say that the Stores have been defrauded in the case of this bill where the goods and the amount are mentioned, and the amount entered in the counterman's and cashier's daily summaries and in the cashier's book, because the bill is imperfect and we have no means of checking it; that is the chief reason—we find a few discrepancies which we are able to check, and so we pick these out as well—the third leaf is not perforated—I do not know whether Mr. Winter was a ticket-holder; I find in the invoice, "Ticket 14025, S. Winter, Esq., 8s. 4d."—no goods are mentioned—when a person becomes a member we take his name and address—I have not communicated with Mr. Winter to know whether he did pay 8s. 4d. on that day, it was not my business; I simply say this bill has been tampered with—he has accounted for the 8s. 4d. for the incorrect entry—I cannot say that is the amount he received from Mr. Winter—I had the means of testing the account if the particulars were correct—we have a shareholder's register, in which the number of each ticket is registered, but I don't think it is here—August and September is the time when we are preparing for the Christmas cards—it is not the prisoner's department, but he might be one of the men sent to mark the cards off—he would be taken away from his counter till evening—his book would remain on the counter—the men who remain would put down in their own books what they supplied customers with, and account to the cashier—if we wanted him he would be sent for from upstairs if there were not sufficient men to serve—I have tested "Sworder, Esq.," and believe it is the proper name—the 10s. 6d. on the bill agrees with the bill the member took away; the member says that he paid the same amount—I am not aware that anybody is here who made these figures—I cannot tell anything about sheet "R."

Re-examined. If the daily summary agrees with that of the cashier, that is. supposed to be the check, and if they both did their duty it would be—it was not considered necessary to compare the daily summary with the accountant's book—with the exception of Winter's accounts, we have no means of telling the true amount received from the counterman—those amounts are carried into the cash book so as to agree—in the other instance, where the leaves are destroyed, all I can say is, the amount agrees with the amounts the prisoner has put down on his slips.

HENRY JOSEPH RHODES . I was employed until November at the Army and Navy Stores, Victoria Street—I was convicted on my own confession and sentenced to three months' imprisonment for embezzling the money of my employers—I came out of prison on 17th March, this year, and

after I came out, acting under advice, I made a communication to Mr. Dutton, the solicitor—I was employed as a cashier in the stationery department—I was stationed at desk "B"—the cashier at desk "A" in August and September last year was named Dawson—the relief cashier was named Canning—during August and September the prisoner was a cashier in the same department in the room I was in—his customers, in the ordinary course of business, would have to go to desk "A" to pay their money—at the end of June, or the beginning of July, last year, I met Barnes in a public-house in Rochester Bow, in the evening—I cannot fix the date nearer than that—I can't say the exact words, but I made arrangements with him to embezzle money in the Stores—I asked him if he would help me work the bills in the stationery department, and he said, "Would there be any chance of getting found out?"—I said no, if we were very careful it would be almost impossible—he said he would try, and he would have another conversation with me—I explained the system if his bills were to to paid at my desk—I told him if he was to place his carbon so as to leave the third bill blank, I could detain the first two bills which were paid into my desk, and destroy the bills; and he could enter any amount agreed upon on the blank third sheet—that would to the odd pence; but if it was 11s., he would put down 11d.; and if it was 11s. 3d., he would put down 3d.—I said if be could send the bills to my desk, I would enter the amount of pence we agreed upon, and pay it to the cashier at the other desk. I arranged some names—"Day," "Martin," "Wilson," "Bird," and "Hewett"—I don't remember the name of "Gordon"—we did not always keep to those names—sometimes we would enter a name agreed upon the slip of paper—I would enter the amount on paper, and pay it to the other cashier; I was bound to pay in something—I was to destroy the bill; but sometimes the customer would take one bill away—I generally tried to get both bills to destroy—I ought to have filed one and given him one back—in the case of an accident in packing up and the customer coming back, they would not know which counterman served him—we afterwards went to a music hall together, and the matter was again discussed between us—we arranged it—I commenced these operations on the bills at the end of June or the beginning of July—I was not the cashier; I was at desk "B"—this was done at any part of the day I was able to get the bills—when a customer brought me a bill it would have a letter on it—when a bill came to my desk with "A" on it, and it was marked with Barge's number, I should look to him for the sign which we had previously arranged; if the bill was to be embezzled he would take his handkerchief out and wipe his face; and if not, he would scratch his head—sometimes he would nod his head, and use his handkerchief at the same time—after that sign was given I would act in the manner I have detailed—that practice continued up to the beginning of October, last year—the money would be divided between me and Barge in the evening, after business hours—I should take the money—altogether, I should think the total amount divided during that period would be over 50l.—I see that page 14210 in book 63 is missing—Barge told me how the leaves could be torn out of his book—he said if in any case he omitted the blank paper under the carbon, and I got that bill, he would tear the leaf out in every case where we had embezzled the money—he told me that several days after we had arranged to do it—I came out of prison on 17th March—

after I came out, I met Barge in Rochester Row, about the beginning of may—I was with my landlady, Mrs. Kettringham, when I met him—he came up and said "How the devil are you?"—I told him I was all right, and promised to meet him in a quarter of an hour—I went in with him and promised to go round to his place to see him—he was living at Mrs. Flirt's, 4, St. John Street, Westminster—I went there, and he asked me how I had been getting on—I spoke to him, and he said, "I have been chaffed by several of the countermen at the time of your arrest, saying that I shall be the next taken"—I said, "You need not have any fear, as I have said nothing concerning it"—he said, "I think it is all right now, as I don't think there are any bills left, but there may be one; I have destroyed the best part of the bills"—I went about four times to his rooms.

Cross-examined. I was indicted with two others at the Middlesex Sessions—we were all charged together, and we all pleaded guilty—the others were Lloyd and Dickson—Dickson received the same as I did; Lloyd received nine months—he was a counterman—before I was sentenced I was not asked to make a statement with reference to anybody else in the Stores—I was not written to about making a statement, by my fellow-clerk in the Stores, before I was sentenced—I was not recommended to mercy by the Stores—the Judge said it was on account of his age that he gave Lloyd nine months and me three months—Lloyd suggested my doing it in the grocery department, but I had before embezzled money in the stationery department with Barge—I went from the stationery to the grocery—Lloyd did not know that I had embezzled money before—I had not done so before I came in contact with Barge—I first suggested it to Barge, knowing he had a friend who was embezzling money at the same time—I learnt all the details as to how I was to embezzle from a man named Moore; he told me how he was carrying it out—I swear I had not embezzled money before that—Moore has, I think, absconded—I suggested several plans to Barge, and he fell into my views—I think I told him how to do it—I first suggested it to him—I am speaking now of the particular offence charged previous to Lloyd's case; Lloyd's was afterwards—I had not embezzled anything then, and I had not taken anything improperly from my master—I have an uncle, with whom I am now living—he is in a respectable position—I was not living with him at this time; I was on friendly terms with him—I have no father and mother—I did not consult my uncle upon what Moore said to me, but after I heard what he said I went and suggested that a fellow-workman and I should embezzle money together—Barge agreed to it within a very few minutes—we had another talk at the music-hall afterwards, to see how it was to be carried out—Barge said "I will have a try with you; we must have another meeting and arrange it properly"—I said "All right"—I was quite willing—I was 18 at that time—the words were used in the bar of a public-house in Rochester Row; I don't know the sign—the landlord is Mr. Chapman—I left the Stores about 6.15—there were no other persons in the compartment, but we did not specially select it—this was at the end of June, 1882—I had been in the Stores 17 months when I was convicted—I was put back for judgment in December and sentenced in February—it came on for trial about six months after this alleged conversation with Barge—I said at the police-court "It was four or five months after I entered the service I commenced robbing the Stores"—that was with

Barge—the first time I started was with Barge—I had not robbed the stores before I entered into conversation with Barge in July, 1882—when I said that it was four or five months after I entered the Stores that I commenced robbing the Stores, I might have made a mistake—the first time I began to rob the Stores was with Barge—I have had cause to think over my robberies from the Stores since I was convicted, but I cannot give the first sum I defrauded the Stores of in conjunction with Barge, or any details—I have no memory of the first sum—I cannot give the amount, not when we first started, or who the customer was—lean give one transaction, either in August or September—it was nearly the last bill we had, 10s. 6d.; it was paid in on Saturday morning by two ladies—I think the article was a scrap album—I entered the sixpence on paper, and paid it in to the other cashier—I cannot swear that that is the bill I allude to (produced); I think that it is the entry—this is properly entered, "Mrs. Taylor," the number of the ticket, the description of the goods, and the right amount paid—I have been spoken to about this case by the solicitor for the prosecution, Mr. Dutton, and my uncle has strongly urged upon me that I should give evidence—this very entry was shown to me by Mr. Dutton with all these particulars, and then I made a statement about this one—I cannot think of the customers in any transaction which Barge and I had together, and which is not entered in this book—we had a bill for 1l. 13s.,. 10d.—I received the money and paid it to the other cashier at the other desk; it was 2s. 10d. or 1s. 10d., I cannot tell exactly—that was several weeks before this amount of 10s. 6d., and I asked him at night, what he had done with the bill, and he said he had destroyed it—one item was an ink well for a lady—I cannot refer to the entry in the book, because if the bill is torn out I should not know where it is, but I think it was in August—I entered either 2s. 10d. or 1s. 10d., some very small amount—Barge would enter that in his book—I am quite sure I entered it so that either it would appear as 1s. 10d. or 2s., 10d.—I entered it on a slip of paper, and I handed it to the other cashier—if I had his bills, he would nod his head and wipe his face if I embezzled—if he scratched his head I should know that I was not to do that particular bill—that was the sign between us—the counterman is behind the counter, and I am in a little box, but he could come up to my end of the counter—he could serve the other part of the counter if he liked—he did not move up to the part of the counter nearest me every time he intended to embezzle, and he was not generally at the end of the counter nearest to me when he did embezzle—the nod. was to embezzle a bill—a great number of people were passing between the prisoner and me—there is one counter on one side and one on the other—there was no trouble whatever to see the prisoner—I could very easily see him, but in some cases I could not see whether he was going to embezzle a bill till I got it to my desk—sometimes when the goods were sent I would do it, but I had no right to take the other cashier's bills, except when he was absent from his desk—a great many of the customers run away without taking the bill, and sometimes they say "Will you keep the bill?" and I say "Yes"—a great many customers are careless of the bills, and don't take them—I think I destroyed the 10s. 6d. bill, but I cannot swear it—I destroyed one of the bills—I think the lady threw it on the floor—I might on one occasion have beckoned to customers with the idea of getting them myself, to rob the Society—I

have frequently beckoned customers—Barge would not give me the sign till I had received the bill—sometimes I would wait till the customer had gone—in the case of the 10s. 6d. Barge was standing close to my desk, and he nodded—I was not quite confiedent, and went down and asked him if I should do that particular bill, and he said "All right"—if I saw it was Barge's customer I would say "Pay at this desk, Madam"—I have asked them to come to my desk, whereas they would have gone to the "A" desk, which stands in the centre of the room—I did not say at the police-court in reference to this 10s. 6d. "Barge made no sign at all"—I said he nodded, and I did not know whether he was going to do that particular bill—I was not certain about his sign, or I should have gone—he was not in conversation with a lady; I was—I went to a public-house afterwards with Barge—this conversation, with Barge after I came out of prison, was in his bedroom at St. John Street—the first time I went to Mr. Dutton was 27th June—he sent me a letter, and I went with my uncle—Mr. Dutton said that there were several other cases against me—he did not tell me that inasmuch as they were not mentioned in the indictment at the Middlesex Session to which I pleaded guilty, it was quite competent for the Stores to prosecute me again; nothing like it—he did not say that I had not been punished for these, but that I might be; nothing like it—he asked me to tell the truth, and in accordance with my uncle a wishes I did so—I made a statement—I don't know what else he asked me or told me—in the letter he said there were several other cases against me—the letter is at home—until I received his letter I had not said one word about what I have said to-day—my uncle did not begin to act until I had shown him the letter—he had no knowledge that there was anything else against me—we were generally in the habit of dividing the money in the Albert public-house; we might once or twice have divided it somewhere else—I have sometimes sent it by one of the boys to him—I cannot tell how much I embezzled; I dare say 50l. or 60l. between me and Lloyd, in the grocery department—I have divided about 50l. or more with Barge in one department, and 60l. with Lloyd in the other—I can give you the details of another case—I had several bills one day, and there was a similar one of 2s. 1d.; it was about the beginning of October—that was the last bill I had with Barge—I have not seen it in his counter-book; it has not been shown to him—I mentioned it to Mr. Dutton.

Re-examined. I was at desk "B"—no customer of Barge Ought to have come to my desk unless the other cashier was absent—I beckoned to the other customer to come because he would have gone to desk "A"—I think he was walking to the other desk—when I got an "A" bill I looked across to see whether the sign was given, and if it was I "did" that transaction—it was only occasionally I did this—my business was with the other counterman—when I went to Mr. Dutton I took the letter with me—he asked me to speak the truth, and I have done so—the account I have given is the account I gave at the police-court—in the transaction of Dufour, I recollect that two ladies came—before that I had made a statement about a particular transaction—before Mr. Dutton showed me the bill at all, I had identified the transaction by saying that there were two ladies.

WILLIAM HERMANN PRESTON WINDUS . I was until recently a servant at these Stores in Victoria Street—I was taken in custody on 8th July

this year, and have pleaded guilty this Session to a number of charges involving dishonesty at the Stores—I had left the Stores when Rhodes was taken in custody—I know Barge—I was in the stationery department at No. 2 desk about August last year—I can't be sure about the time—I took Rhodes's desk, and he was put into the drapery department—after I had been there two or three days, I was at the Albert public-house, Victoria Street, in the evening, and the prisoner asked me if Rhodes had spoken to me about what he had been doing with him in the stationery department—I said yes—he said" Are you willling to do the same?"—I said "If you can prove it can be done without any risk of being found out"—he answered "I can easily do that. In taking an order from a customer for goods to be taken away, I will place between the second and third sheets, under the carbon paper, a sheet of paper to stop the impression from going through on to the third sheet. I will then send the customer to your desk, although he properly ought to go to No. 1. You must then take a note on a piece of paper of the folio number, the number of the book, and a name beforehand agreed upon, and putting down as the amount the odd coppers"—if there were not any coppers, say the bill was 17s., we should put it down as 1s. 5d—the folio number referred from the cashier's book to the particulars book—I should then send the customer buck to Barge, who would, if possible, get back the bill from the customer—I was to destroy my second bill, which ought to have been filed, and send the amount that I had got down on the paper over to the other, the proper cashier, whose duty it was to enter it, and the money we would divide in the evening over at the Albion public-house—he said that he had done it with Rhodes, and that he had rather do it with me than do it with Rhodes, because Rhodes was so continually sending over little notes to him, and leaving his desk to talk to him, and he thought it would be noticed—if the plain paper were not placed under the carbon, he said he would then tear out the bill and destroy it—I carried out this suggestion, and we succeeded in obtaining about 10l. each I should say—while Rhodes was at the Stores he lived at Mrs. Ketteringham's, No. 2A, Charlwood Place—I have been to his rooms there, and have slept there with him—I have met the prisoner there—I do not know Moore.

Cross-examined. I have received no money, nor promise of money, nor forgiveness, nor promise of forgiveness, to induce me to give evidence—all the statements I have made to-day I have made solely to make reparation to the Directors of the Society for my past bad conduct—I have no hope of my sentence being made lighter—the signs agreed on between me and Barge were a nod of the head, and he was to bring out his handkerchief and wipe his nose—there was no sign if I was not to do anything—we had only one sign: that if I was to do it he would nod his head and wipe his nose—I had embezzled money before I came into contact with Barge, in the grocery, turnery, and drapery departments—the grocery was the most lucrative—I benefited there about 150l.; in the turnery about 60l., and in the drapery about 80l.—that was about 290l. before I was introduced to the prisoner—the scheme in the grocery was with the check-clerk—neither of us would enter the bill, we should divide the money, and take the bill out of the bundles—in the turnery department I was on my own account—on entering a bill for 5b. 6s. 8d. I should enter 6s. 8d. and add up the total as if I had overlooked the 5l.

—it would make an incorrect total—the system of check there was that people only looked at the total, and did not test it—if they had gone through the casting it would have been found out—that was the only system I had there—I used that same system in the drapery—I evolved it out of my own ingenious mind, nobody helped me—I was ready to do it in the stationery if it were shown to be all right—I had managed to conceal my defalcations in the other departments up to that time—I should say that some of the bills we have done together could be traced by the fact of the customer's name and number appearing in the prisoner's books in lead pencil instead of carbon—I could not say positively—I have said before this that they could be—I first embezzled money in the prisoner's department four or five days after I was there—I could tell by my book when I began my duties there, it was about August—the first transaction I did with him was 14s. odd—it was done in the same way as agreed—I do not know what the goods were—my duty was to take the paper and money—the prisoner sent the customer over to me; I looked at him, he gave me a nod—the customer paid 14s. odd, and I put the 14s. in my pocket, and put down the odd pence on a piece of paper and sent that over to the cashier by the foreman—I tore the customer's bill up—that ought to have been entered in the prisoner's counter book, I cannot say if it is, I have not seen the book—I do not know why the cashier who received the 2d. or whatever it was did not ask for the customer's bill—I sent it over and never heard anything more about it—I used to meet the prisoner in the Albert public-house; I don't know who keeps it; it is exactly opposite the Stores—I betted very little—I have seen the prisoner in Grant's, the betting house; I did not see him bet—I betted with the landlord through my friend Cantle, not myself—there was nothing to be anxious about in the record being left in the books of the transaction; I have not said I was anxious on that account, to the best of my belief—I have never said that before I came into connection with the prisoner I had never committed any frauds on the Society, or anything to convey that impression; I always said I first commenced defrauding the Stores with Mean in the grocery department; I swear that—I told Strange, a bicycle maker, at his place, that I had committed 290l., or thereabouts, defalcations on the Stores before I came into connection with the prisoner—he made a bicycle for me and used to know a great deal about my affaire; he took an interest in me; he received some of the money in payment for the machine—he did not share it with me, only I promised to give him an order—I only mentioned it to Strange—I told Mr. Dutton I first commenced in the grocery department, and what I had embezzled—I told him I had embezzled about 50l. with Mears and over 50l. with marriott in the grocery department, and that I had embezzled in the turnery department—I gave him the amounts, or thereabouts—he knew I had practically embezzled 290l. before I came into contact with the prisoner—I have not been out on bail; I sent for Mr. Dutton, and he took down my statement in writing from my mouth in the prison—I said in that statement everything I told here to-day, including the amount of my previous embezzlements before I got into the stationery department: I swear that—I made a clean breast of it from beginning to end, and told him everything—I should be greatly surprised to hear that there is no word about it in my statement.

CHARLOTTE ELIZABETH SWORDER . I am the wife of John Sworder, of

Bury Westmill, Buntingford, Herefordshire—my husband had a ticket, No. 38,835, for the Stores last year—on 1st September, 1882, I purchased a lock purse in the stationery department and paid 5s. 3d. for it—the counterman served me in the ordinary course and gave me two bills, and then I went to the cashier's desk, paid the money, and got one of them back receipted and took it away with me—I destroyed the bill—it was for a lock purse, 5s. 3d.

FREDERICA ELIZA DU FAUR. I am a single lady, residing at 74, Lansdowne Road, Notting Hill—I had a nephew a member of the Army and Navy Stores, and on 2nd September I went there with another lady and purchased a scrap-book in the stationery department for 10s. 6d.—we got the two bills at the counter, and then went to the cashier's desk and paid the 10s. 6d., and got the bill receipted and given back and got the book, and I think I took the bill away—I have an entry of the day I went, 2nd September, in my diary.

Cross-examined. I am not a member of the Stores, I took Mr. Taylor's ticket—I don't remember whether I took the bill away and destroyed it—I do not often go there—I would be in the habit of taking my bill away.

Re-examined. I have to show the bill receipted, before I take the goods away.

ALFRED DAWSON . I was cashier at the Stores in August and part of September, stationed at desk A—during that time the prisoner was one of the countermen with whom I was connected—in the ordinary course of business it would be the practice for the prisoner's customers to come to my desk—when the bill came I entered the amount in my cash-book, which would be compared at the end of the day with his daily summary, and one is a check on the other—page 14210, September 2nd, in the cash-book is in the name of Davis, amount 5d., entered by me—book 7, page 492, counterman's number 7, 14243, is in the name of Gordon 10d., 24th August—page 379, No. 14308, is on 30th August, in the name of Day, 9d—page 399, 14340, is Davis, 5d. 1st September—on the same day, 14394, Day, 7d.—Day, 3d., on that date is Canning's entry—14,382 is on page 416, Day, 5d., 4th September—on 2nd September I find Taylor's 10s. 6d. entered as Ewart, 6d.—these are all in book 63—at page 416 there is 14,383, Lee, 8d., entered by me—page 434, Tap, 6d. 14388—in book 26, page 42, I find 39,818, Day, 1s., on 7th September—at page 7, 14357, Ewart, 6d., on 2nd September—book 27, page 342, No. 14643, is Wood, 7d., 24th August, entered by me—page 860, No. 14,288, is Winter, 8s. 4d., on 28th August—in book 100, page 126, I find No. 14300, Slade, 3s. 9d., August 29th—when a customer came to me I entered the true amount from the bill—if I were not in my desk another cashier, Rhodes, for instance, would enter it on a slip of paper and bring the slip of paper to me with the money when I came back, and I, relying on his honesty, took it from him and entered it in my book, properly accounting for what I believed he had received—I cannot pledge my memory to any particular instance of this, but it was what occurred.

Cross-examined. It is my duty to retain one of the two bills which the customer brings unless the things are to be sent, when we hand both bills back—when the customer is going to take the things I keep one as a record of the amount I have received—in my absence Rhodes or

another cashier took my bills at his own desk, not at mine—he would carry out the rules if he acted properly about retaining one bill, except when the goods were sent—I have asked Rhodes for the original bill at times, and then he has said he has given them back to the customer, and then I have accepted a piece of paper from him showing the amount he alleged he had received, which he handed over to me—I have not many of the bills for those amounts which I have just been answering to Mr. Fulton—Rhodes has not given me a slip of paper in every instance I have gone into, only in certain cases—I can't remember if I have had any of the bills relating to those which I or Rhodes ought to have taken from the customers—if he had received it I do not know where it would be now—we put the bills on a file, and they are collected two or three times a day and taken away—I am prepared to swear the amount entered in book is all the amount I received, and that it is correct—there is no possibility of a mistake—I have never made a mistake in the amount that was entered—when I said at the police-court "I may or may not have received that money," I meant that is the amount I have received; I do not know that I have received any particular amount—I have not left the Stores—I have been removed from the stationery to the grocery—I do not know why; they move us about at times—when I came back from my holidays about September there was another cashier there, and I was put in the grocery.

ARTHUR FREDRICK CANNING . I am 20 year old—I was a cashier in the Army and Navy Stores in July, August, and September last year—as cashier I should enter in my book in the ordinary way from a customer's bill the money I received—on 1st September I have entered Day, 3d., ticket No. 38735, and I accounted in the ordinary way for that money in due course—I was relief cashier—14397 is an entry in my writing, Roberts, 10d., and on the same page 14399, Day, 2d., both on 6th Sept.—on page 472, on 11th September, is 39872, Wood, 9d. and on the same page another Wood, 39873, 1d.—when I received money from customers I entered the true amount in the cash-book—on occasions I have received from Rhodes money for the purpose of entering in my book—he then either gave me the bill which had the name on it, or a piece of paper with the name and number of the bill and the amount, and in those instances I always entered truly in the cash-book the amount I had received from Rhodes—I have asked him for the bill when he has given me the slip of paper, and he has said they were all addressed bills and had to be returned, and so I did not see the bills—I am still in this Company's service.

Cross-examined. The entry "3d." on 1st September is in my writing—I was relief cashier to Dawson between 2 and 3 when he was out, and was stationed at that desk to receive money from customers while Dawson was away—for that hour I kept at the desk as much as possible—at 2 or 3 the work begins to get busy and there was all the more reason for my remaining at my desk—I can swear that every amount there is the correct amount I received—I can't remember whether I received the money in the entry from the customer or from Rhodes—it was only during the relief hour that I received money from Barge's customers—Rhodes was quite right in saying that if the goods had to be sent he would not have the bill—it is only where they take the goods

away with them that they leave the duplicate at the desk and keep the original.

CHARLES HENRY BARSTOW (Re-examined). The bills the cashier would keep would be kept for a few days and then destroyed.

Cross-examined. There are printed rules about the establishment; every man has a copy given to him when he enters the employment—I was not asked personally before the Magistrate to produce a copy; the question was asked, I believe.

MARY ANN FLINT . I live at 4, St. John's Street, Westminster, and am the wife of William Flint, a messenger at the Civil Service Stores—in September last the prisoner came to lodge at my house and left in June this year—Rhodes used to come there and see him and was shown into his room.

Cross-examined. He visited him as a friend—Barge always conducted himself in a very proper manner, no one more so—he was generally in before I went to bed—I have got sons—Barge never stopped out except when he went home for a holiday—as far as I know he did not go beyond his means—he paid his rent regularly.

The prisoner received a good character. GUILTYThree Months' Hard Labour.


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