3rd January 1848
Reference Numbert18480103-419
VerdictGuilty > unknown; Guilty > unknown

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419. CAROLINE JONES and RACHEL LEVY , for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and BALDWIN conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT AUSTIN I am assistant to Mr. Winter, a perfumer, in Oxford-street. On 16th Dec. the two prisoners came there, about a quarter-pass five o'clock in the afternoon—Jones asked for a piece of sponge—I showed her some—she selected piece, which came to half-a-crown—she tendered a 5l. note to pay for it—I took the note into the parlour, to Mr. Winter, who was there at tea with Mr. Winter—Mr. Winter came from the parlour to give the change—she took out a purse and a pocket-book—she took four sovereigns from the purse and laid them on the counter, and was proceeding to take the remainder of the change from the till—she took out a half-sovereigh and 7s. 6d—Jones took up one of the sovereigns, and put it in her purse—Mr. winter had asked me the price of the sponge—I told her—Leavy remarked, that the sponge being only half-a-crown, she had half-a-crown, and she would pay for it—she produced half-a-crown—Jones then requested the note back again—Mr. Winter gave it her, and took the change up again—Jones took a sovereign out of her purse, and laid it down—they then went out—Mr. Winter counted the silver, and put that and the half-sovereign in the till—in consequence of what I said to her, she placed the sovereigns on on the glass-case and was looking at them with me—one was counterfeit—I immediately went in pursuit of the prisoners, I could not find them—when I returned, the sovereigns were on the glass-case—I saw this one amongst them—I weighed it with another, and found it was deficient in weight—there was then a bite on it—Mr. Winter wrapped it up in paper, and put it in the glass-casethe

policeman came—the sovereign was shown to him—I marked it—Mr. Winter then put it away in the glass-case—it remained there till the 23rd, when the policeman took it to the Mint—I know my own mark—this is the sovereign.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Had you ever seen either of those persons before? A. No—I recognise them both—I recognised Jones at Newgate—I could not make up my mind respecting Levy—Jones had a child with her when I saw her in Newgate—she had not when she was in the shop—there was an apprentice in the shop besides Mr. Winter and me—this case was not investigated before the Magistrate—Levy did nothing but pay half-a-crown for the sponge.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How long were the persons under your notice in the shop? A. From five to ten minutes—I am positive as to Jones, and I have a strong belief that Levy is the other.

SARAH WINTER . I remember two women being at our place, about a quarter-past five o'clock—I have not the slightest doubt of the prisoners being the persons—I and my husband were at tea in the parlour—Austin came in with a 5l. note for change—I went into the shop, and saw the prisoners—I took out my pocket-book to put the note in, and I took out my purse, which contained seven sovereigns—I had taken them all in the course of the day, and examined them all to see whether they were good when I took them—they were all perfectly good—I took four out of those seven sovereigns for the purpose of giving change, and put them down on the counter—I had noticed that one of the sovereigns, when I took it in the course of the day, had the George and Dragon on it—I am not sure that that was one which I put down, but when I examined my sovereigns afterwards I found that one was gone—I had taken four sovereigns out, for the purpose of giving change for the note—I inquired how much was to be taken—I was told half-a-crown, and I put down four sovereigns, a half-sovereign, and 7s. 6d. in silver—Levy then said, "It is only half-a-crown, you need not change"—Jones then said, "I will not trouble you for change; I will take my 5l. note again"—I returned the note to Jones, and Levy put down the half-crown for the sponge—my change was on the counter near where they were—Jones was the nearest to it—when I returned the note, they immediately left the shop—I was taking up the change, and Austin said, "You had better examine it"—I counted it, and found it right in amount—Austin pointed out one of the sovereigns—I looked at it—it was a bad one—I did not think at the moment of whether either of the four sovereigns had the impressions of the George and Dragon on it—I thought of it afterwards, and I found no such one—this is the bad sovereignit is not one of the sovereigns that I put down, that I am quite sure of—it has not the impression of the George and Dragon on it—I have a great deal of money pass through my hands, and am a pretty good judge of it—while the change was on the counter, I think I had not occasion to turn away from the counter—when Jones said, "We will not trouble you for change," I was leaving the shop, and going back to the parlour—I merely turned—I did not turn away from the counter—it was after that, that Jones said, "We will not trouble you for change"—I had not notice whether either of them had interfered with the four sovereigns that I put down—on discovering this bad sovereign, I told my husband, and I marked it—this is it, it has the mark on it—it was then wrapped in paper, and kept apart from other coin till I gave it to the policeman.

Cross-examined. Q. What is the mark? A. A bite with the teeth on one side, and Austin marked it on the other side—I put the mark on it when I discovered it was bad—I did not put the sovereigns in my purse for some

time—after the prisoners left the shop, I picked up the four sovereigns from the counter—I put them down myself, and I took them up again—I had not seen either of the prisoners before, to my recollection—the George and Dragon sovereign was one that Mr. Winter had given me in the course of that day, and I remarked it being a very light one; that made me notice it—I did not weigh it, I put it in my purse with the others—I and Austin were in the shop, and I was just turning to go into the parlour, when she said she would not troble me for change.

JOHN DAFTER (policeman, D 215.) I produce this sovereign, which I received from Mr. Winter.

THOMAS JOHNSON . I am in the service of my mother, Mr. Johnson, who keeps the George Inn, in Smithfield. On Friday, 17th Dec., between one an I two o'clock, the two prisoners came and asked for some port wine—I am sure the prisoners are the persons—it came to a shilling—Jones asked if we could accommodate them with change for a 5l. note—I took the note to my mother, and she could not—I took it into the parlour, and obtained the change from some persons who were paying for stock they had bought in the market—I obtained four sovereigns and two half-sovereigns, and gave them to Jones—I then took one half-sovereign to my mother, to take a shilling for the wine—she gave me change, and I put down two half-crowns and four shillings—while I was getting the change for the half-sovereign, a conversation commenced between Jones and the barrnaid respecting one of the sovereigns—I did not exactly hear the conversation—I think it was, that she thought that sovereign did not sound so well as the others did, and she should not like to take it—my mother overhearing it, and being vexed, got up, and said, "Give me your money back again, and I will get you your note"—they did so—my mother took the money back to the gentleman, got from him the five-pound note, and gave him the money—she then gave the prisoners the 5l. note, and they went away very quickly—Jones received the money, and she returned it back again—I belive the wine was paid for by a shilling; but I did not see that done—I saw my mother take back the change to Mr. Young; and immediately after he had it given back, he complained of one of the sovereigns my mother had given him—that was in the sitting-room—the prisoners had then left—I had left them at the bar when my mother took the change in to Mr. Young, and when I returned to the has they were not there—the bad sovereign was given to Inspector White.

Cross-examined. Q. The barmaid and Jones were talking about the sovereign for some time? A. Yes; two or three minutes—Mr. Young took the sovereign out of his pocket—I think he had not a bag—I think he took out one or two more than the four sovereigns and the two half-sovereigne—the barmaid asked the opinion of a toll-collector, who was standing there, if it was a good sovereign—he said it was bad—the barmaid said, "Oh, you are no judge,"or something of that sort—she seemed stiff in the opinion that it was good.

HANNAH MARIA JOHNSON . On Friday, 17th Dec., the prisoners came to my house—they were served with two glasses of wine—they wanted change for a five-pound note—I remember my son getting the four sovereigns and two half-sovereigns for the 5l. note—I changed one of the half-sovereigns for silver—I heard one of the prisoners say,"I don't know; this does not sound like the others. I should not like to take it"—she spoke to a friend who was with her, and to the barmaid—the gold was eventually given back, and the 5l. note was given to them.

Cross-cxamined. Q. The barmaid said it was a good one; she did not see

anything the matter with it? A. Yes; they still kept talking, and I said, "What a fuss is here! Give me back the money, and I will go and get the note"—it was my act to get the money back—they did not ask for it.

NODIAH WALKER . I am barmaid to Mr. Johnson—I remember the two prisoners being there, and change was given for a 5l. note—Jones said one sovereign was a bad one, and she gave it me to look at—I said I believed it to be good—I thought it was good at the time—they went away the moment they got the note back—I cannot say which of the two paid the shilling for the wine, I think it was Jones.

MRS. JOHNSON re-examined. It was Levy that paid for the wine.

NODIAH WALKER re-examined. I could not tell exactly which it was—I took the opinion of a gentleman at the bar about the sovereign—he said he would not give a shilling for it—I said, "Don't talk such nonsense."

MATTHEW YOUNG . I am a cow-keeper in Mile-end-road. On the 17th Dec. I was at the George Inn, West Smithfield—I gave the landlady's son change for a 5l. note—I gave him four sovereigns and two half sovereigns; they were all good—shortly after, Mr. Johnson brought four sovereigns and two half sovereigns back—she asked me for the 5l. note, and I gave it her—the money was laid down on the table—I took it up, and directly saw one sovereign was bad—that money was by itself—I had not mixed it.

Cross-examined. Q. How much gold had you altogether, before you changed the note? A. About 8l. or 9l., or it might be 10l.—I had taken it from Hill and Sons' banking-house—I put it all in my pocket—I did not weigh the sovereigns, or do anything to them—Mr. Johnson put down the sovereigns she brought in, on the table—she said there was some dispute, they did not like one of them—I knew I gave four good sovereigns and two halves—I do not want to lose the sovereign, and she does not want to lose it—young Johnson got the money from me, and he ought to have brought it back to me.

FREDERICK WHITE (police-inspector). I produce this sovereign.

MR. YOUNG re-examined. This is the sovereign.

JOHN PEARSON . I am shopman to Mr. Purcell, of Cornhill. On Friday, 17th Dec., the two prisoners came there, about two o'clock or past—Jones asked for half-a-dozen puffs—they came to a shilling—she asked if I could oblige her with change for a 5l. note—I said, "Yes"—I gave her four sovereigns, one half-sovereign, a five shilling piece, and four shillings—the shop was full of customers—I gave the change into Jones' hand—as soon as I had done that, my attention was called to another customer—Levy then asked me the price of half-a-dozen puffs—I said, a shilling—she said, "Bless me, only a shilling! I will pay for them"—I replied, "I have taken for them out of the note, and given the lady the change"—she replied, "I will pay for them"—I received from her the shilling, and Jones gave me the change back—I had not given back the note—I saw one of the sovereigns was bad—I said, "This is your game, is it? I will send for a policeman"—while I was looking at the money, Levy said, "Give me sixpenny-worth of mixed biscuits, young man"—that did not call off my attention—I looked at the money and found one sovereign was bad—the young man who was in the shop went out called in an officer who happened to be outside the door—the prisoners could not understand what I meant—they said, was it a bad 5l. note—I said, "No bout you have changed one of my good sovereigns for a bad one"—they said, "I do not know what the young man can mean, is it a bad note?"—I had noticed the four sovereigns which I had given in change to Jones—I took them out of the till one by one—I saw

they were good, and directly the money was returned, I saw one was bad—the officer took the prisoners to the station—this is the sovereign—I gave it to the officer.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you tell the officer to do anything particular when he came in? A. I said, "I will give these two ladies in charge"—I told him to take hold of their hands, and take care they did not swallow the sovereign—I believe the policeman found nothing on them but an empty purse—when I had given the change, I had two or three sovereigns left—I had taken them in the course of the day—I did not weight any of the sovereigns.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Do you take a good deal of gold? A. Yes; and am a pretty good judge of it.

JOHN PALMER (City policeman, 655.) On 17th Dec. I was called to the shop and took the prisoners—I found an empty purse on Jones, and 1s. 6d. on Levy, and 1 1/2 d. in her basket—they were searched at the station and nothing found—they gave and address, but I could not find any account of them.

CALEB EDWARD POWELL . These three sovereigns are all counterfeit, and are all produced from one mould—they are all Victoria's.

JONES— GUILTY .* Aged 20.

LEVY— GUILTY .* Aged 21.

Confined Eighteen Months.

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