29th May 1805
Reference Numbert18050529-34

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394. JOHN TROY was indicted for that he, on the 27th of February , feloniously did utter, dispose of, and put away, a forged and counterfeited Bank note, for the payment of 5 l. with intent to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England .

Second Count, For like offence, with like intention.

Third Count, For feloniously disposing of and putting away a forged promissory note, for the payment of 5 l. with like intention.

And Four other Counts, For like offence, with intention to defraud William-John Rhodes .

(The indictment was opened by Mr. Bosanquet; and the case was stated by Mr. Garrow.)

WILLIAM- JOHN RHODES sworn. - Examined by Mr. Fielding. Q. You are a hosier and glover , in Oxford-street ? - A. I was at that time, on the twenty-seventh of February.

Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar - On the twenty-seventh of February did you see him? - A. I did, I saw him at my shop, it is dated on the back of the note.

Q. What time of the day was it? - A.About twenty minutes past four o'clock.

Q. It was light? - A. Yes, I was returning from my office, and the prisoner at the bar was at my shop, bargaining with my partner; he purchased two silk handkerchiefs; I went behind the counter, to give my partner assistance, and the prisoner at the bar gave me the note in question.

Q. What price was the two handkerchiefs? - A. It was either 12 s. or 12 s. 6 d, I will not be positive; the prisoner gave the note into my hand and I held it up to the light it was a note of five pounds apparently, and I conceived it to be a bad one, as I thought; I was not certain myself, I went up stairs to my wife who was ill in bed.

Q. You looked at the note and you thought it was a bad one - did you do any thing by way of knowing whether it was bad or not? - A. Yes, I went out leaving him in the shop and took the opinion of a neighbour.

Q. You went out, and your belief was confirmed? - A. Yes, my friend confirmed me in my opinion; I went to a banker's, in Barner-street, and they proved it to be a forged one.

Q. Did you go to any Police-office? - A. I did; there was no constable there at that time.

Q. Did any constable come to you? - A. Yes.

Q. Having spoken for a constable did you return home? - A. I did.

Q. Did you find the prisoner there? - A. I did.

Q. Be so good as to look at this note? - A. That is the note.

Q. When you found him there, what passed between you and him? - A. I shut the door upon the prisoner; I told the prisoner I suspected it to be a forged note; he said he was very sorry for it, and if I would go with him to Tottenham-court-road he had plenty of friends there, who would give me a good one, in lieu of the one in question; I told him it was out of my power; he then took the watch out of his pocket, and said he would leave it, and return the next day and satisfy me; I told him I had nothing more to do with it, it rested then with the Magistrate, I should have nothing further to do with it, the law must take its course.

Q. That is the note, and that note had not been out of your custody till you delivered it to the man who took the prisoner in custody? - A. No, I put his hat on his head (the constable never came to my house, I was going from my house, when I met the constable); I took hold of him by the arm, and took him myself till we came to Blenheim-steps, where the constable met us, and I delivered him to the constable, who, with myself, conveyed him to Marlborough-street; he made no resistance after he got out of the shop at all.

Court. Q. Did he make any resistance before he got out of the shop? - A. Not forcible resistance; he begged and prayed that I would let him go; we took him to the Office, and he was examined.

Prisoner. Q.What time were you gone from your shop, from your first going out? - A. I might be gone a quarter of an hour.

Q. Is it natural to suppose this man to be gone for a quarter of an hour with this note, that if I knew it to be a forged note that I should not have gone.

Court. You are not to talk and argue upon it; at present you must confine yourself to ask questions.

Prisoner. As to making any resistance, you cannot say I ever did.

Court. He said you made no forcible resistance,

you only begged and prayed in the shop, and no resistance at all out of the shop.

Q.(To Prosecutor). Did you give him a general reason for your going out of the shop? - A. I told the prisoner I had not sufficient change in the house, I would go out and get it.

JOHN WARREN sworn - Examined by Mr Knapp. Q. You are one of the officers of Marlborough-street? - A. I am.

Q. You were applied to by the last witness to take up the prisoner? - A. I secured the prisoner just by Blenheim-steps, in Oxford-street.

Q. At the time you secured the prisoner did you see any five pound note? - A. No.

Q. When did you see any five pound note? - A. When Mr. Rhodes produced it at the Office.

Q. Did you put your initials upon that note? - A. Yes; J. W. February 27.

Q. Tell us whether these are the marks that you put upon it? - A. Yes; J. W. February 27.

Prisoner. Q. You searched me? A. Yes, I searched you, and found the dollar, a six-pence, an eye-glass, and a watch.

Prisoner. I had nothing else about me.

THOMAS THOMPSON sworn. - Examined by Mr. Garrow. Q. Where do you live? - A. At No. 29, New-street, Covent-garden; I am a linen-draper and hosier.

Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner at the bar at any time in your shop? - A. Yes.

Q. When was it? - A. Either on Saturday, the 23d, or Monday, the 25th. I rather incline to the Monday.

Q. For what purpose did he come there? - A To buy a small article, either a pair of hose or a handkerchief, which I cannot recollect, to the amount of half a crown, not more.

Q. In what manner did he pay for it? - A. He offered a five pound note, which I believed to be a five pound note at the time.

Q. You look at that, sir? - A. This is the one, I wrote upon it.

Q. What reason have you to know that that is the one you received from the prisoner? - A. By my writing upon it.

Q. Did you ask him any questions? - A. I asked him his name, he gave me the name of John May , Blackbird, Low-Layton.

Q. Did you write that upon the face of the note which he gave you? - A. Yes, in his presence.

Q. You gave him the article he had purchased and the difference, and he went away? - A. Yes, I believe I saw him again in about six weeks.

Q. Are you quite certain this is the same person? - A. I have no doubt of it; I paid it away; I gave him four pounds seventeen shillings and sixpence: I believe that was the change.

ANN PUDEPHAT sworn. - Examined by Mr. Garrow. Q. I believe you keep a milliner's shop, in Tichbourne-street? - A. A straw hat manufactory.

Q. Do you know a young woman by the name of Thompson? - A. Yes.

Q. Do you know her by the name of Mary Young ? - A. Yes, and I know her by the name Mary Thompson .

Q. Did Mary Young ever offer to purchase any article at your shop? - A. On Saturday, the 23d of February, she came to my shop, and agreed to purchase a small bonnet of the value of a guinea.

Q. Did she take it away or did she say she would send for it? - A. She desired me to put the name of Young on it, and she would send for it.

Q. Did any person come afterwards for that bonnet that was so marked? - A. Yes, the prisoner; I am positive of it; on Monday, the 25th of February.

Q. What did he say when he came? - A. He asked for the bonnet that had been ordered; I knew him, because he had been once before for a bonnet for the same person, whom I then knew by the name of Thompson; he asked for the bonnet, and I gave it him.

Q. In what manner did he pay you for it? - A. A five pound note.

Q. Look at that? - A. Here is my own handwriting; I wrote Thompson, February; I put it 24 by mistake, it was on the 25th; I perfectly recollect it was Saturday she came, and it was fetched on Monday; I then gave him four pounds in change, and he gave me a shilling.

Prisoner. Q. I think I heard you say you endorsed the note? - A. Yes.

Q. Did you endorse that note in my presence? - A. I did; I put the name.

Q. Do you intend to swear that? - A. Yes.

Q. You do? - A. Yes.

MARY YOUNG sworn. - Examined by Mr. Garrow. Q. You know Mrs. Pudephat? - A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever dealt with her for any article? - A. Yes, I have; for more than a twelvemonth.

Q. By what name did she know you by? - A. By the name of Mrs Thompson.

Q. Did you deal with her in the month of February, for any straw bonnet? - A. I did.

Q. What day in February was it when you bespoke it? - A. It was on Saturday evening.

Q. What price did you pay for it? - A. A guinea the lady asked; I wished to have it for a pound; I would have bought it then, if she would have taken the old bonnet I had on.

Q. In the end, it was put by for you for a guinea? - A. Yes.

Q. Were you to send for it? - A. Yes.

Q. It was to be put by for you to send for when it would suit you? - A. Yes, I sent for it on the Monday.

Q. By whom? - A. By the prisoner.

Q. How long have you been acquainted with the prisoner? - A. Ever since the beginning of last June.

Q. How was the prisoner to pay for the bonnet? - A. I gave him the money in cash.

Q. You mean in gold and silver? - A. Yes.

Q. Did he bring back the bonnet to you? - A. Yes, he did; he could not get it for a pound.

Q. You had given him commission to try and get it for a pound? - A. Yes, he came back and said he could not get the lady to take off the shilling.

Q. You know the prisoner intimately, Mrs. Thompson? - A. I never knew any harm of him.

Q. Had you any reason to know that he was in possession of a 5 l. note at the time? - A. No, I had a bad dollar at the time, and I begged him to get it off for me; his answer was, did I want him to be hanged.

Q. What name did you know the prisoner by, during all your acquaintance with him? - A. John Troy .

ELIZABETH SHEPHARD sworn. - Examined by Mr. Fielding. Q I believe you keep the Black-bird, at Low-Layton? - A. Yes.

Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar? - A. I do not know him; I never saw him before I came here.

Q. He never lived at your house? - A. No, he might have been in the house, but I do not know him.

Q. If he had been in your house, and lived in it, you must have known him? - A. Yes.

THOMAS BLISS sworn. - Examined by Mr. Knapp. Q. You are an inspector of Bank notes - I am going to shew you the Bank note in question - take that in your hand and tell us whether it is a forgery; first, the one that was given to Mr. Rhodes? - A. The whole of this is a forgery.

Court. Q. Be so good as to tell the Jury what you mean by the whole of its being a forgery? - A. I mean the paper is not the Bank of England paper, nor is it the engraving of the Bank of England; neither has it the water-mark, nor is it the signature of our cashiers, nor of any of the clerks.

Mr. Knapp. Q. Whom does that appear to be the signature of upon the face of that note? - A. It does not appear to be the signature of the Bank, we have no cashier that signs any 5 l. notes in that name at all.

Q. I am now going to put into your hand that uttered to Mr. Thompson? - A. This note is of the same texture, and of the very same description, as the other note.

Q. By that you mean it is the same sort of paper, and the same writing? - A. It is a strip of the same paper and the same writing, and it is a facsimile of the other first note; they are both from one plate.

Q. I am now going to give you the other 5 l. note uttered to Mrs. Pudephat? - A. This note is of the same kind of paper, from the same plate, but a different signature to the others, we have no cashiers in that name; they are all from the same plate; it is a forged note.

GARNET TERRY sworn. - Examined by Mr. Knapp. Q. I believe you are the engraver to the Bank of England? - A. I am.

Q. Will you take these three notes in your hand - Look at that note uttered to Mr. Rhodes? - A. It is altogether a forgery; this is a forgery also of the same kind, and in every respect; it is from the same plate.

Q. That is the note uttered to Mr. Thompson - Look at that which was uttered to Mrs. Pudephat? - A. This is a forgery, in every respect the same as the others.

Q. Are every one from the same plate? - A. From the same plate, the same paper, and the same ink. (The notes read in Court.)

Prisoner's defence. I must acknowledge I uttered these notes; I sent to the Bank, and Mr. Winter attended me in Newgate; I candidly told him the manner in which I got these notes; I passed three before that one to Mr. Rhodes; I knew it not to be forged. Can it be supposed that I, knowing these 5 l. notes to be forged, would have continued in the shop, when he was away from the shop a full quarter of an hour; I left on the other side of the counter, and the door open. I acknowledge I had the notes; I found the pocket-book, and I uttered the notes, but I knew them not to be forged.

Q. Have you any witness to call in your behalf? - A. I have not; with respect to the notes I found them; they did not belong to me, but through my partner's distressing me to the last shilling, I passed them; I must acknowledge my dishonesty that I did not advertise the book in which they were found; to say that I knew they were forged, I did not.

GUILTY , Death , aged 28.

Second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Justice Grose.

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