THOMAS GORTLEY, Deception > fraud, 23rd May 1792.

Reference Number: t17920523-80
Offence: Deception > fraud
Verdict: Guilty
Punishment: Death
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299. THOMAS GORTLEY was indicted, and the indictment charges, that David Ramsey , late of the parish of St. Giles in the Fields, surgeon , on the 30th of April last, was possessed of 2,300 l. transferable shares of and in a certain capital stock established by certain acts of parliament; and that the said David Ramsey , on the said 23d of April, was the true and real and lawful proprietor of the said 2,300 l. so established as aforesaid; and that the said David Ramsey , in respect to the said 2,300 l. transferable shares, then and there, on the said 23d of April , was entitled to the receipt of, and from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, the said money, at the rate of 3 l. per 100 l. by the year, which said half-year's annuity became due on the 5th of April last; and that the prisoner well knowing the premises, and intending to deceive and defraud the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England, did falsely, deceitfully, and feloniously, personate the said David Ramsey , then and there being the true and real and lawful proprietor, and thereby did then and there feloniously endeavour to receive the sum of 34 l. 10 s. the money of the said David Ramsey , as if he was the true and lawful owner of the said money .

There were four other Counts for the same offence, only varying the manner of charging it.

The indictment opened by Mr. Garrow: and the case by Mr. Fielding, as follows:

May it please your Lordship. Gentlemen of the Jury, I have the honour, with my friend, to address myself to you in the employ

of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. My learned friend has stated to you the nature of the charge, which is now brought forward against the prisoner; it is in short this species of offence, namely, of assuming the name and character of a Mr. Ramsey, in order to receive, at the proper office for the payment of that sort of money, a dividend upon stock, of which Mr. Ramsey was the proprietor; he, at the time he applied to the clerk of the Bank, saying, that he was the Mr. David Ramsey himself, and entitled to that stock. You will easily perceive that the crime imputed to the prisoner is a capital offence; and to Gentlemen of your description, it would be unpardonable in me if I was to engross much of your time, or the time of the Court, in many observations on the utility, the consequence, and the importance in that vast machine of publick credit, the Bank of England. Gentlemen, how infinitely it imports the publick, that every officer in that employ should exert all possible vigilance to guard against the first approaches of fraud at that place, must strike every body before ever such object is mentioned. Gentlemen, the particular circumstances of the present case lay within a very small compass, and are such as I am afraid will preclude the unhappy man at the bar from any possibility of defence; and the officers at the Bank exerting very proper industry on the occasion, when this matter came to light, have done, as it highly became them to do, they have inquired into every circumstance of this young man's life; we therefore have come at his parentage, and the situation he has been in; we have come to the means that he has been supplied for two years past; he has been in London, and has, the greatest part of that time, lodged at the Bolt and Tun, in Fleet-street: at his father's decease he was entitled to a sum of money not amounting to 600 l.; it was invested in the funds in the year 1790: so long ago as July 1791 every halfpenny of that property was sold out; but, during the time it remained there, highly probable it is, that he had opportunities of visiting the Bank and of knowing the procedure of that place: on the 23d of April, the young man at the bar applied to the Reduced Annuity office, for the purpose of receiving the dividend in question - a Mr. Fearing is the clerk in that department; it was then about half past two o'clock when he made his application to Mr. Fearing, saying, that he wanted a dividend; Mr. Fearing looked at him, and asked him his name; he immediately replied, that his name was David Ramsey ;

"What is the stock?" Mr. Fearing asked, he then said it was 2,300 l. Mr. Fearing went on with other questions that were necessary, and asked him what interest was due on the money; he answered without much hesitation, that there was a twelvemonth due; Mr. Fearing looking at the book, and seeing that there was some back dividend due, but not amounting to what he himself specified, then asked him,

"Are you sure you are right?"

"Yes," says he,

"I am sure I am right; my name is David Ramsey ." -

"Is that your name," said Mr. Fearing,

"It is; and my stock is 2,300 l.; but whether I am right or not in the interest that is due, I cannot be certain, because I gave to my brother a power of attorney to receive for me." Mr. Fearing, upon this intimation, knowing extremely well that if any dividend had been received, on a power of attorney, that there would be means: appearing on the book by which to know it; and seeing that there was no mention at all, or any entry regarding a power of attorney, he again interrogated the prisoner at the bar, whether he was sure of the stock; he again then said,

"Yes, I am; my name is David Ramsey, of the navy, a surgeon." Mr. Fearing gave him the dividend warrant, the dividend book was open; he took the dividend warrant, he subscribed to that dividend warrant the name of David Ramsey , and he subscribed in the book likewise that name. Upon his mentioning that he was David Ramsey, a surgeon in the navy, such circumstances came out as brought forward a recollection, according to the best of Mr. Fearing's apprehension, of the person of a Mr. David Ramsey , a surgeon in the navy; he said to him then,

"Why, if I am not wrong, if I have any recollection

of Mr. David Ramsey , the surgeon, he is a much older man than you;" upon which, with some alarm, but not with any very great degree of hesitation, he then said, that Mr. David Ramsey was his father: now, Gentlemen, on this state of the business let me call your attention for a moment; the act of Parliament which describes this offence, and which, with all becoming care, the legislator has attempted to guard against every possible approach, and every stage of fraud that could be committed against the Bank of England; and has expressly noted this as a species of crime which was completed at the very moment that he said to Mr. Fearing, that he was David Ramsey , when he was Thomas Gortley , that is the crime the act has specified, namely, personating another with intent to defraud the Bank. Gentlemen, I need not take up much time in explaining the law, as it has been elucidated by a case that has gone before the Judges, because my Lord knows the case: he had therefore completed the offence in every particle of it; he applied to the Bank clerk for the purpose, and therefore endeavoured to receive this dividend; and he assumed the name and description of David Ramsey . Now then, Gentlemen, you are perfectly possessed of the nature of this offence, together with those circumstances that must arise in order to constitute the offence, namely, the application being made so as to manifest the endeavours to receive the dividend under a false and assumed representation of another. Mr. Fearing, on his having mentioned that Mr. David Ramsey was his father, not at that moment alarmed about all the other circumstances, which would, if he had had time to consider of them, of course struck a very considerable alarm in his mind; he then asked him, if his father had made a will for, that if it was his father's stock he could not pay it then: the person said to Mr. Fearing,

"What degree of proof will be necessary for me to receive this?" -

"You must produce your father's will." -

"My father's will is in the Commons; but I have a copy of it, and in ten minutes I will bring it." A Mr. Plestow, who had been present, asked him who was the executor, he said himself was the executor; and mentioned two other persons who were executors in the father's will, and one Gentleman named Tozer. Gentlemen, you will find the name of Tozer will become infinitely material. At that time he went away without being interrupted at all by Mr. Fearing or Mr. Plestow; he never returned; the matter resting then under all the circumstances that I have just stated to you, Mr. Fearing thinking perhaps it probable that he should return either on that day, or on some subsequent day, thought no more of the business; but a conversation happening between him and Mr. Plestow, which I am not at liberty to state to you, all the circumstances became strongly possessed on their minds: this was the 23d of April; it was on Monday. On the Monday following, Mr. Fearing going from his department in the Bank into the 4 per cent. office, he there saw, and recognized, the prisoner at the bar; he looked at him, and he was sure it was the man; he had not a sort of doubt about it; he very prudently went to the office where Mr. Plestow was, and told him, and desired him to go to look at the prisoner; as soon as ever he came into the office he saw him, he recognized him, he was sure, Gentlemen; therefore, you see now that this evidence, which will be necessary to support the charge here, will be evidence of person, what they call the evidence of identity. Now certain it is, that in many cases that may be stated, the evidence of person, or identity, may appear to be so evasive that it must, under the circumstances of the case, be received with much hesitation; and men will ponder extremely before they will determine in many cases of the evidences of identity; such, for instance, as a man being robbed on the highway, who is certainly flurried, and his mind not perfectly cool, and not perfectly at ease; you always will indulge a probability in favour of an accused person, that there has been a mistake; but if ever there was a case in the world where the evidence of identity must be stronger than any other,

it is in the case that you have now before you. Mr. Fearing perfectly cool, without the least degree of alarm on his mind, but a curiosity necessarily and naturally excited, having every opportunity of looking at the young man; Mr. Plestow with him, having the same opportunity, both being cool, nothing to disturb or irritate the mind, the circumstance making an impression on the memory, so as to keep it alive for a week, when the opportunity arose again of confirming them in this manner; therefore, Gentlemen, with respect to the evidence of identity, those two witnesses, who can have no possible bias on their minds, but rather the contrary, must stand before you while you will search most deliberately indeed every circumstance with they assert, so that you may be enabled, and you will greedily grasp at, if you are enabled to suppose there was a mistake; but if you are convinced that they are certain in their minds that that person is the prisoner at the bar, to be sure then it will be your duty to be guided by that testimony. Gentlemen, soon after Mr. Plestow had seen him, he communicated it to the Accomptant of the Bank of England, the Accomptant went to him, and he was desired to walk into his room, he did walk into his room, communication was immediately made to the Governor, who of course directed he should be detained. He sat in the room of the Accomptant for near three quarters of an hour without asking any question at all; what may be the infence resulting from that, I will not attempt to anticipate, you will, I am sure, according to the best of your knowledge in human nature, give it that interpretation which is fair, wishing at the same time to give it that interpretation that is merciful; but if in your examination of the human heart, you should be convinced this is a circumstance, which added to the others I have related, shall be a manifestation of guilt, of course you, in your duty to the publick, will receive it as such. Gentlemen, soon after this he was taken to the office of Sir Sampson Wright, there he went under an examination; Mr. Fearing and Mr. Plestow both told their story; he told his, so far as he chose to tell it; but at the time he made his application to Mr. Fearing at first, he was differently dressed to what he was on the following Monday; Mr. Fearing and Mr. Plestow, therefore, described that circumstance: he had a black coat on, as he has now; he had an under waistcoat, which struck them both to be the waistcoat that he had on when he made his first application; but in describing his clothes he had on the first day, on the search being made at his lodgings, those clothes were found there. Mr. Plestow and Mr. Fearing had both of them remarked that on the 23d of April he had a ring on his finger of an octagon form; they described this circumstance; at the time of his apprehension he had no such ring on. In course of that activity which had been used by the officers of the Bank, we shall be able to lay before you, to-day, in evidence, that about that time the young man wore such a ring as that: if the ring was not valuable it would not be difficult to account for its being found; however, when his lodgings were searched, many duplicates were found there: Gentlemen, nothing more material appears on the search of his lodgings than what I have described; now then you see we are to revert to the evidence of this being the man that applied to the Bank; and it is desired that you further bear in mind the name of Tozer: when Mr. Plestow joined his inquiries with Mr. Fearing, and asked him who his father's executors were, he mentioned one, namely, a Mr. Tozer; when he was examined before Sir Sampson Wright, he, in accounting for himself, and giving a description of his parentage, and of what he became intitled to at his decease, he himself said, that Mr. Tozer was an executor of his father's will: now, Gentlemen, that circumstance to be sure, strong as it is, if the evidence of Mr. Fearing and the evidence of Mr. Plestow were not to be decided and positive; but if they were merely to speak to random belief, or that they rather believed that that was the person who made the application at the Bank; when testimony of that sort iscoupled with the two other circumstances I have just stated, namely, the coincidence of the name of Tozer being the executor to his father, and the other of his wearing the ring I have mentioned; it appears to me that such evidence must be irresistible; but when, instead of that testimony, there shall appear the most clear, unequivocal, unhesitating evidence that that was the man that made his application; it seems that the only remaining evidence will be as to the nature of the transaction itself; when he applied to receive the dividend and personated the character of David Ramsey , saying, that he was David Ramsey ; and going no further then would be necessary in order to complete the crime of giving the description of a David Ramsey , of the navy; there the crime was finished, that no act of his life could possibly do away; therefore, though I have stated to you what followed in this business, through all the subsequent circumstances, they do not seem material so far as they regard the nature of the crime committed: you will perceive the whole of this transaction lays in a very small compass, if Mr. Fearing and Mr. Plestow are not mistaken, which they cannot be, undoubtedly this is the man that made this application there, and that application in every stage of it was completed, which the legislator intended to guard against: Gentlemen, I took the liberty of suggesting to you before, that in many cases where the question of identity becomes a subject of a jury's inquiry, they will hesitate extremely; at the same time the only reliance that the publick have on the execution of the duty of a jury, is, that, to the best of their belief, taking all possible means to investigate, then it becomes the duty of that happiest tribunal in the world to declare the guilt; on the contrary, if they are not satisfied, we see the merciful inclination of their minds not at all trespassing on the nature of their duty, but freely giving the weight of that doubt to the unhappy person that is before them: Gentlemen, on the present occasion the Governor and Company of the Bank of England have done their duty to the publick; they, with a very becoming activity, have brought this prisoner to you, and submitted his case to you; they can have no wish in the business; they are perfectly sure that you will, as you must of course do, feel the extreme importance of the inquiry, at the same time, from this inquiry, you will not at all forget any one opportunity of shewing mercy; but sure I am you will give that weight to the evidence which the evidence ought to receive; if you are convinced that the man is guilty of the crime imputed to him, it imports the publick most highly indeed that examples should be made; on the contrary, if any reasons shall appear either to doubt on the testimony, or in any shape to hesitate on giving that weight to it which I have mentioned in that case, and in that case alone I am sure you will be glad to shew him mercy.

(The witnesses examined separate on both sides.)


I live in Thornhaugh-street, Bedford-square; I am a surgeon in the navy. On the 23d of April last I possessed 2,300 l. reduced annuities, and was entitled to the dividend due on the 21st of April, which I had not received then; I have received it since: I do not know the prisoner: I never desired or authorized him to receive it for me.


I am a clerk in the Bank, in the reduced office. On the 23d of April, Mr. David Ramsey appears entitled by the books to 2,300 l. reduced Bank annuities, and 10 1/2 at past dividends, 34 l. 10 s. which he had not received.

Be so good, Sir, to look at the prisoner: did you ever see him before? - I have: on the 23d of April a person came and demanded a dividend in the name of David Ramsey ; about half past two o'clock the person came up to the book and asked for a dividend in the name of David Ramsey , I asked him how much the stock was; he

said 2,300 l.; turning to the book, I found there was more than the last half year due, and I asked the person if he knew how much nett there was due, he answered a twelvemonth; I asked him if he was sure he was right; he said he could not rightly tell, for he had been out of England, and he had given a power of attorney to his brother to receive the interest for him; I then turned to the ledger, and no power whatever was marked on the ledger, as it would have done; I then told the person no such power appeared.

Mr. Garrow. You have used the expression of the person; look at the prisoner and tell us whether he is the person? - I have said the person; when I look at the prisoner I verily believe he was the person: he said he could not answer for that, but that his brother had remitted him money at different times; I then asked him to tell me the description in which he stood in our books; he told me, David Ramsey , of the navy, surgeon; I then, turning to the alphabet, and seeing the description agree, I recollected something of Mr. Ramsey's person; I then asked him again to repeat his name, and directed the question again,

"is your name David Ramsey , and what is your stock?" he said his name was David Ramsey and his stock was 2,300 l.; I told him, if I recollected David Ramsey , that he was a stout elderly gentleman; he said that was his father; I then asked him how he could think of coming to receive his father's property, and where his father was; he had then signed the book in each of the two places, and had signed the receipt of each of the dividend warrants.

What do you call those books? - Dividend books.

Do you recollect in what particular state of the conversation he signed these warrants? - As soon as he said his name was Ramsey, and I looked at the name, I turned the book to him, and he signed it; I then asked him, seeing there was a reference to the second dividend, what dividend was due; I turned round to him a second time, and when there was more due than what he claimed, I then began to question him more particularly.

Was there more due than the two? - Yes, there was: on his signing the second book I began to doubt more, and of course to question him more.

Certainly; that led to these particular questions? - His answer was that his father was dead; I asked him who were his father's executors; he mentioned three names; I do not recollect any of them; we then told him he had no right to receive it; he then said he had an authority, because he was an executor; I then took up the warrants, and told him I could not pay him, as David Ramsey did not appear to be dead; he asked me what proof was wanted; I told him if his father had left a will to let us have it; he said the will was in the Commons, and that he had a copy of it at home, which he would fetch in ten minutes time; he went away, promising to return with the copy of the will; but I saw no more of him that day; this was Monday, the 23d of April: I saw nothing of him till the Monday following; on that day, between twelve and one, I was going into the 5 per cent. office, I there saw the prisoner, and it struck me so forcibly that he was so much like the person that demanded the dividend of me, that I went and called Mr. Plestow; and we were both of opinion that he was so much like the person, that we thought it proper to acquaint our Accomptant General.

Did you at that time, or did you not, verily believe he was the person? - I did.

Was he dressed then as he was before? - No; he was not.

There was a considerable difference in the dress? - Yes; there was. I informed the Accomptant General, and he came to him; he was desired to walk into his apartment; and he was there examined, and was removed from there to Sir Sampson Wright's.

Was any thing explained to him for walking in there, or was he merely desired

to walk in? - He was merely desired to walk in; he was in there three quarters of an hour.

He went in of course? - Yes.

Now, Sir, I believe, after he had been at Bow-street, the search was made at his lodging? - Yes; I was present: we found the coat and a waistcoat, as near as I can recollect, the same pattern as the prisoner came in to demand the dividend the 23d of April.

What coloured coat and waistcoat were they? - A dark brown coat, and a red waistcoat, with spots.

How was the prisoner dressed when he was apprehended? - In a very genteel manner; in a black coat and waistcoat, and leather breeches, and boots and spurs, and a whip in his hand; his hair was full dressed, and he had a round hat on; he had a very handsome octagon ring on his finger; it was a large ring, and reached from the nuckle; on the 23d of April he had a large cravat on, and the edges of it laced; there were such cravats found at the lodgings; there was an under waistcoat which I observed to correspond with that which he had on the 23d; it was a striped waistcoat, such an one as he has on now.

With this impression that the prisoner was so like the person that had been to you, did it appear to you to be the same person? - Upon seeing his face I saw every feature that I had seen in the other; it struck me very forcibly at that time; I wished to be satisfied lest I should make a mistake when I went to call Mr. Plestow.

Did you at that time or not entertain any doubt whether he was the person? - I was fearful that I should apprehend a wrong person.

That is no answer to my question: did you entertain any doubt or not? - Yes; I did.

Have you examined to see whether the prisoner had any dividend to receive on the 30th, or any account of the Bank? - Yes.

Had he any? - None at all.

The books of the Bank are perfectly silent as to any business he might have there on his own account? - Yes, they are.

Mr. Knowlys, prisoner's counsel. The person that you questioned could hardly forbear observing your suspicions? - No; I think he must.

Mr. Plestow was not so near him as you? - Not till I began to question him.

I believe your expression has always been that you verily believe; you never went further? - I verily believe the prisoner is the man.

You never went further than that? - No, Sir.

What time was it that the person appeared there on the 23d of April? - It was from half past two till within ten minutes of three.

You found the prisoner on the 30th of April standing in the Bank? - Yes; I did.

On your return you found him exactly in the same situation? - Yes; we did.

Did you walk round the prisoner? - We walked round the fire place; he stood at the fire; we looked at him two or three times; he remained in the same situation; he looked as if he was waiting for somebody.

What time might pass from the time you first saw him to the time you fetched Mr. Edwards to lay hold of him? - Ten minutes.

Court. At the time this conversation all passed, and you was handing the first book, and then the second, and then the two warrants, had you such an opportunity as that you could observe, and did you observe his person? - I saw him then: I observed his person perfectly well; and I observed the person of the prisoner when I saw him the Monday following, and it so convinced my mind that I was not willing to be mistaken.

Then what you did was out of caution, not having any doubt in your mind; do I understand you right? - I swear to the best of my knowledge that the prisoner is the man.


Mr. Fielding. On the 23d of April you was in the Reduced Annuity office? - I was.

Look at the prisoner? - I do.

Do you know him? - I take it to be the person that applied to our office on the 23d of April; on the 23d of April, about half after in two in the afternoon, passing by the division letter R. where Mr. Fearing was; I was desired by him to stop; I went to him.

Did you see the prisoner with Mr. Fearing at that time? - They were conversing together; I immediately referred back to the dividend, and found that the dividend differed materially; I heard Mr. Fearing ask him what profession he was; he said he was a surgeon in the navy.

Did you observe his countenance so as to know him again? - I did.

What was he dressed in? - A brown coat, with a scarlet fancy waistcoat, spotted; while Mr. Fearing was looking at the book I asked him how he became possessed of the stock; he said it was his father's; I immediately replied, what right had he to it if it was his father's; his answer was, that his father was dead, and had left it to him; I then asked him who were the executors; two he mentioned that I cannot recollect; but I perfectly recollect the name of Tozer as one that he mentioned; he had a long octagon ring on his finger; I then told him, that, allowing it to be as he said, he had no right to receive it, as not being an executor; he then said that he was an executor also; I told him if that was the case it altered the property, but then we must have the will; he said the will was in the Commons, but he had a copy, which was at home, and he would fetch it in ten minutes; when he went out of the office I believe it wanted ten minutes of three.

Had you an opportunity during all that time, which your curiosity or suspicion excited, to notice his person so as to know him again? - I beg your pardon; I had no suspicion, or else I should have stopped him then.

Very well. But had you an opportunity of noticing him? - I had: he did not return: on the Monday following, the 30th, Mr. Fearing came into the office appearing very much agitated; he desired that I would go into the 5 per cent. office, that he believed the person was there who personated Mr. Ramsey the Monday before; I desired him to stop, I would go by myself; I saw the prisoner dressed as he is now, different to what he had been the Monday before, and his under waistcoat the same as that he has on; I knew him directly.

Now look again; have you any doubt? - No more, Sir, than that of one man's being out of sight of another.

You have every reason then in the world to believe him to be the man? - I have every reason to believe he is, except the circumstance of a person once being turned out of sight of a naked eye? - He was brought into the Accomptant's apartments; he stayed three quarters of an hour; he asked me no questions; I attended at Sir Sampson Wright's; I went to his lodgings afterwards to make the search.

Were there any clothes found there corresponding with those the prisoner had on the 23d of April? - I think the same dress that the person that was at the Bank the Monday before had on; I beg leave to mention that the second time of going to his apartments we found a waistcoat of the same pattern; we found several duplicates and memorandums of various things; the numbers, dates, and sums of many bank notes.

Had he any ring on when he was apprehended? - No; he had not: the prisoner said he had a ring, and was sure he left it there; he acknowledged to wear a ring exactly similar to that I described; we went and found no ring; these papers of dates and numbers of Bank notes were found in his box.

Looking at the prisoner again, have you any doubt that he is the man? - I believe him to be the same person to the best of my recollection and knowledge.

Have you any doubt? - No further than I before mentioned: when he was present

at Sir Sampson's he mentioned that a Mr. Tozer was his guardian.

He answered to the name of Gortley at the justice's? - He did.

Mr. Knowlys. Your attention was certainly not drawn to this person till you was called by Mr. Fearing? - It was not.

Court. Are you sure that he said that a man of the name of Tozer was his guardian, and executor to his real father; did he mention that at Sir Sampson Wright's when he passed by the name of Gortley? - He did; he said he was a trustee to him under the name of Gortley.

He mentioned in fact the name of Tozer as the person with whom he was connected? - He did.


I am one of the officers of Bow-street. Mr. Carter, the master of the Bolt and Tun inn, shewed me a room which he said was his; the prisoner directed me there; this coat and waistcoat I brought away. (A brown coat and scarlet spotted waistcoat produced.)

Plestow. This is the coat; there were two such waistcoats.

Mr. Knowlys. Whether the room in which these clothes were was the prisoner's, you only know from Mr. Carter? - No.

Mr. Garrow. Did you shew the prisoner the clothes? - Yes.

What did he say to them? - He said they were his clothes; he then said he had a ring at the top of the bureau, and I went to look for it.


I am Accomptant at the Bank. I went into the 5 per cent. office on Monday, the 30th of April, in consequence of some communications from Mr. Fearing and Plestow; Plestow pointed out the prisoner to me; I went up to the prisoner, and addressed him by saying that I had the honour of being the Accomptant General of the Bank, and I would be glad to speak to him in my office; he said

"yes, Sir," and followed me; when I came into the office I desired him to sit down; he did so; I said to him,

"you came here, Sir, I presume, to buy stock;" he said,

"yes, Sir,;" I then asked him permission to give me his name; he said his name was Thomas Gortley , but, in point of a dispute he had at Bath, in which they told him his name was more like a horse than a man, he had assumed the name of Godfrey; I then asked him who was his broker; he said Mr. Chapman; upon which I went to the door and sent for Mr. Chapman; he came shortly; and the moment he entered the room he recognized Gortley, and asked him how he did, and Gortley returned the compliment.

Mr. Garrow. Pray did he at all ask for an explanation of this most extraordinary conversation? - Not a syllable; he never asked any.

You felt yourself doing something that, ordinarily speaking, is pretty impertinent? - I felt myself in an extraordinary situation, to be sure.

How long might you be in this situation? - I believe he was with me near three quarters of an hour; then I was desired to produce him to the gentlemen in the direction; there he was interrogated, and taken to Bow-street; I was present at the examination; I remember Mr. Plestow being very particular describing a long octagon ring; indeed, says he, it was so large, it was almost like a shield; the prisoner acknowledged that he wore a ring; but I think he did not seem to intimate that it was so large as described; I think he said it was in a little box at his apartments at the Bolt and Tun.

Mr. Knowlys. Then upon their mentioning a ring to him, he referred them to the ring at his lodgings, implying, as you thought, that it would not answer that description? - Yes.

He did not hide his real name? - Not the least.

And you found that the account he gave you of his being acquainted with a broker of the name of Chapman likewise turned out to be true? - Certainly.

He never attempted to run away? - No.

- WILLIAMS sworn.

I am a clerk in the Bank.

Mr. Garrow. On the 28th of February did you issue from the Bank, a 50 l. Bank note, 18th of Feb. 1792, No. 3545? - Yes.

A 25 l. Bank note, the 10th of Feb. 1792, No. 4196? - Yes.

A 25 l. Bank note, the 10th of Feb. 1792, No. 4195? - Yes.

These notes were all issued by you? - Yes:

Were they all new notes? - We had them from the cashier.

They were all issued in one payment, to one person? - Yes.

In payment of one dividend? - Yes, two warrants to one person.

Court to Prisoner. You have heard the charge that has been made against you, and the evidence which has been produced to prove that charge, would you wish to say any thing yourself, or leave it to your counsel?

Prisoner. I should like to leave it to my counsel partly.

Court. Your counsel cannot make a speech for you, he can state no fact to the jury, all he can do is to examine those witnesses which you have instructed him in your brief will be of service to you in your trial; if therefore you wish to say any thing, now is your time.

Prisoner. My Lord, I can bring my witnesses to prove that I was at the Bolt and Tun inn, from two o'clock till a quarter before three.


Mr. Knowlys. I believe you keep the Bolt and Tun inn, in Fleet-street? - Yes.

Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I have known him to have been at my house some time past as a lodger.

How long? - About 14 or 15 months, backwards and forwards.

I believe you attended at Bow-street on the day the prisoner was brought up? - Yes.

Can you tell us whether you have any recollection where the prisoner was on the Monday preceding that time? - On the Monday preceding, I saw him in my house, between twelve and one o'clock, and about two, or after; then between three and half an hour after.

When you say that you saw him at your house about two, how long did he continue there at the time you got sight of him about two? - I really cannot say, he was then in the parlour eating some cold roast beef for a luncheon.

What time was he eating his luncheon? can you speak to any certain time which he remained there? - No, I cannot say that I can; the only thing that I took notice of was, that a Mr. Evett in the house took particular notice of his eating a luncheon so near dinner time; he generally dined about three. Mr. Evett was obliged to go down to Weybridge last night.

What part of the house was he in at that time? - In a parlour just behind the coffee-room.

Where was your situation at that time? - I was then in the parlour with Mr. Evett, when he came in and asked for some cold roast beef for a luncheon.

Are you able to say any extent of time which the prisoner staid there? - No, Sir, I cannot; business calling me backwards and forwards, I cannot.

You have known him 14 or 15 months? - Yes, I never saw any thing by him in my house, I never saw any body visit him there.

So far as his dealings have been with you has he behaved honestly or otherwise? - Perfectly honest and very sober, I never saw him any way otherwise

Mr. Garrow. Very sober and paid his tavern bill. You do not mean to represent him as having passed all these months at your house, nor any thing like it? - No, Sir, not all the time.

He has been lately at Bath? - Yes.

Did you learn from him who he was? - I understood he was the son of Sir Andrew Godfrey . I recollect his telling this Mr. Evett and myself that he had brought up some money with him, to the amount of about 7000 l.

Had you seen any of the duplicates that were found? - No, not till they were found by the officer; he returned in March; he

told us that his father lived at New Place, near Exeter.

Did you ever hear of his having changed his name on account of its being too much like the name of a horse, or any thing of that sort? - Never, Sir, till it was mentioned at Sir Sampson Wright's; I recollect that between twelve and one, he had his great coat on, with a handkerchief round his neck, and he sat down to dinner with this handkerchief round his neck, which was very unusual for him to do.

That was after three? - Yes, it might be about 20 minutes, or nearly half an hour.

What was the rest of his dress? - I really cannot recollect.

Was it his brown coat and his red waistcoat? - I cannot say.

Do you know where the black clothes were made? - I do not know.

Were they made before or after that Monday that he had his luncheon? - I cannot say.

When were the new boots and leather breeches bought? - I cannot say.

Did he use to wear a ring? - He used to wear a ring sometimes.

What sort of one? - Rather a large one, of the octagon shape.

Had he that ring on of the Monday? - I really cannot recollect.

Upon your oath cannot you recollect that he had that ring on at dinner? - I really cannot say; sometimes I have seen him with it, and sometimes without it.

You do not know what is become of it? - No, I do not.

Did he use to wear such clothes as a red waistcoat and a brown coat? - Yes, and sometimes a green coat.

Then, except the black, we have the whole wardrobe here? - There is another black coat I believe.

Did you understand from him whether Sir Andrew Godfrey , his father, was living at New Place? - Yes.

Was you at Bow-street when he was examined? - Yes.

Did not you hear him say there that his father was a shoe-maker, and was dead, and had left him some little property? - No.

Do you remember his saying any thing about his father in Bow-street? - No.

If I understand you right, you cannot undertake to prove how this man had disposed of himself from a little after two, when he was eating his luncheon, and almost half past three, when he sat down to dinner? - No.

The prisoner called seven respectable witnesses, who had known him above two years, and gave him an excellent character.

GUILTY , Death . (Aged 28.)

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

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