28th October 1789
Reference Numbert17891028-17

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757. HENRY LLOYD and JOHN DANIELS were indicted for feloniously assaulting in a certain field and open place, near the king's highway, Clement Debney on the 24th of August , and putting him in fear and danger of his life; and feloniously taking from his person, and against his will, a silver watch, value 40 s. a steel chain, value 1 d. a key, value 1 d. a seal, value 1 d. his property .


I am gardener at Thomas Hand's, Esq. at Knights-bridge; I was robbed the 24th of August, just after nine, just at the bottom of Constitution-hill ; I was going home alone (it was dusk) in the evening; I saw two men, about an hundred yards before I came nigh them; they were dressed as they are now; they were coming towards me, down the hill; nobody else was in sight at that time; when they came up to me, the man in the red jacket, Lloyd, asked me for my property; he held this; (a great bludgeon) to my head; I turned quick from his hands, and ran away; and they both pursued me; I fell, and they fell upon me; and Lloyd struck me with this bludgeon; I ran down the hill; they were both upon me; the other prisoner had a knife which I saw shine in his hand; he had nothing but the knife; in struggling, I got up, and attempted to run away: the prisoner Daniels I pushed down: and the prisoner Lloyd immediately knocked me down with this bludgeon; after I was down, the prisoner Lloyd asked the other prisoner if I had a watch; the man in the brown jacket, said, yes; the man in the red jacket, asked him again, have you got it? the man in the brown jacket said, no; and the man in the red jacket, then said, come, let us go? and the man in the brown jacket said, no, blast his eyes, cut his throat; that was Daniels, the man that had the knife; he gave the knife to the man in the red jacket; the knife was put to my neck, which left a mark for a month after: it was by endeavouring to cut it: I cried out, Lord have mercy upon me: then, as soon as they got my watch, they ran off: one of them left their hat, which I have here to produce.

How long might all this employ? - very nigh ten minutes, as nigh as I can guess.

Did no one come in sight all that time? - No; there is a centry at the bottom of the hill: I was just opposite the pond; when I came as far as the pond, I turned back; the water frightened me more than the men: and a man came up.

When you was upon the ground, how far might you be from the centry? - I take it, about six or seven hundred yards from

the centry of the queen's kitchen; that was the nearest centry to me: as I returned from pursuing them, I picked up this hat, and my own hat: I did not overtake them that night; they were taken about five weeks after, as nigh as I can guess.

Had you ever seen them before? - Not to my knowledge.

And can you then be positive, having seen them at no one time, but during such a transaction; can you be positive to their persons? - I carefully considered; I have not swore so positive to them yet, but I could with a clear conscience.

Do you swear positively to them now? - I think them to be the men.

Do you mean to swear positively, that they are the two men; or do you doubt whether they are the men? - I do not doubt but they are the men, in the least; I carefully considered a long while before I spoke: there were several men taken up on suspicion of the same robbery; and I had no knowledge of them: but I knew these again, as soon as I saw them; I was very careful after the circumstance.

Has the watch been found again? - Yes.

(The watch produced.)

Prisoner Lloyd. He swore to this man in the brown jacket; at the same time that he swore he was robbed, this man had this jacket on, and was in Tothilfields-bridewell; and was tried here last sessions.


I am a pawn-broker; on the 31st of August, Monday, in the afternoon, a person of the name of Sarah Winnall , pledged a watch with me; her name, I since find, is Hodges: this is the watch; she said it was her husband's; I advanced one pound thirteen shillings on it.

(Deposed to by the prosecutor.)

I know it by two dots in the face, opposite the hour three, which cannot be wiped out: I have had it three years.

(Shewn to the Jury.)


I am a married woman: my husband's name is William Hodges : I pledged a watch with Mr. Sowerby; I believe this was the watch.

How came you by it? - I had it of my husband.

What is your husband? - He is a soldier, Sir.

What name did you pledge it in? - In my maiden name, Sarah Winnall .

Why did you pledge it in that name? - I cannot say.


I am a soldier in the coldstream regiment of guards, in Colonel Morgan 's company: the prisoners are in that regiment.

Look at that watch? - I know this watch; I believe it to be the same watch that I received from Henry Lloyd .

When did you receive it from Lloyd? - I cannot say what day of the month it was; it was in the month of August, quite the end of the month; Lloyd asked me sell it for him, if I could; or otherwise to pawn it for him: he told me he had it from John Daniels : then I gave it my wife to pawn.

Prisoner Lloyd. He had the watch from me.


On the 23d, or 24th of August, John Daniels came to my room, and asked me to pawn his watch; I knew he had a watch; I could not go then: he said, never mind, he would get one of his comrades to pawn it: I believe I know the watch; (looks at it); I cannot positively swear, but I believe, to my knowledge, it is the same: I never took any notice of his watch; but I knew he had one, three or four months before: the next morning, Lloyd came to my house, and I asked him if Daniels had pawned his watch? and he said, yes, Hodges's wife had pawned it.


On the 26th of September, I was going toward Bays-water, with four more; three on the right hand, and two on the left: going down Bays-water-hill, I took the two prisoners: Lloyd had this bludgeon, and this knife concealed in his pocket; Daniels let his fall out of his hand: I found this bludgeon where Daniels let it drop.


I had an old chain of a watch of this woman, Elizabeth Taylor , she was distressed for a meal's victuals.


Produced the chain from Mary Vyner ; and the duplicate of the watch from William Hodges .

Prosecutor. My watch had such a chain.


On the 25th of August, I was going to work about a quarter before five, up Constitution-hill, to the queen's gardens; and I found this bludgeon, and a part of a watch chain, and a buckle; the part of the chain appears to belong to the chain; I found it about two hundred yards below the gate.


I am serjeant of the same company the prisoners belong to; on the 30th of August, I was on duty, on guard at Kensington: the prisoner Daniels was on duty; and with the rest of the men, he took his watch out to see what it was o'clock; I observed it, and desired to look at it; he gave it into my hand; I had it half a minute; I saw the watch after, which I gave to the prisoner Daniels again.

Should you know it again? - Yes.

Shew him the watch; (looks at it); I believe that to be the watch.

Is there any thing that makes you recollect it? - Only the minutes of it, I observed then; and I have since taken notice; I have seen the watch since then.

Was there any conversation passed between you, respecting it? - No.


About five or six days after we were in the barracks, Daniels said he found a watch; he gave it to me to sell or pawn, and I gave it to Hodges; and his wife pawned it; I am innocent of the robbery.


On the 21st of last August, in the morning, going in the park, by the canal, I saw this watch lay, and I picked it up, and put into my pocket; I shewed it to all my comrades at the barracks; I could not come out of the barracks; I shewed it all round; I know nothing of the robbery.

Prisoner Lloyd. I wish to call serjeant Rhodes to my character.

Court. Well serjeant, we leave it to you? - My lord, I cannot say any thing to his character.


GUILTY , Death .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron HOTHAM .

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