The Proceedings of the Old Bailey

 

535. (M.)   WILLIAM GANSEL , Esq ; was indicted for feloniously shooting at   John Hyde , on the 26th of August last, at St. Martin's in the Fields, with a certain pistol loaded with gunpowder and a leaden bullet, which he then held in his right hand (the said   John Hyde being in the dwelling house of   Joseph Mayo ) against the statute.

Second Count the same as the first, only charging the pistol to be in the left hand instead of the right.

  John Frith Sworn.

Frith. I am in the sheriff's office.

Q. What have you in your hand?

Frith. The file of writs (producing it. A special capias against General   Gansel , at the suit of Mr. Lee for 134 l. read.)

  John Hyde sworn.

Hyde. This is the warrant (producing it).

Counsel to Mr. Frith. Look at the warrant.

Frith. I made out this warrant; it is made out to   James Armstrong and   John Hyde .

Counsel. Of course it is the practice of the office to put the officers names to it.

Counsel for the prisoner. Pray, sir, is the whole of this of your own hand writing?

Frith. Yes.

Q. Did you make it the day it bears date?

Frith. Yes.

Q. When was it sealed?

Frith. At the time it was made out.

Q. I wish to know whether it was sealed before it was wrote?

Frith. Yes.

Q. Then it was sealed while it was a blank warrant?

Frith. Yes.

Counsel for the crown. Who is   John Hyde ?

Frith. A sheriff's officer of the hundred of Ossulston.

Q. Do you know Craven-street in the Strand? is it in the hundred of Ossulston?

Frith. Yes.

Counsel for the prisoner. Is it the constant course when you receive a writ not to recite it in the warrant?

Frith. We never do in special capias's.

The counsel for the prisoner objected to the warrant on account of informality, for that it set forth the writ to be a plea of trespass on the case, instead of a plea of trespass on the case upon promises, and upon stating their objection to the court, Mr. Justice Nares declined determining the point, but said if

in the event the prosecutor should make out his charge, the General should have a special verdict, in order to have that point solemnly determined.

Q. How long had it been sealed before it was wrote?

Frith. They are always ready sealed.

Counsel for the crown. When you grant a warrant don't you clap the seal upon it?

Frith. No, they are already sealed.

Q. Do you not clap the seal formally upon it before you deliver it out?

Frith. No.

Counsel for the crown. There is no occasion for sealing it at all.

Counsel for the prisoner. Lord Hale's words are express, if it is wrote after it is sealed it is a void process.

Frith. It was not resealed although we have the seal in the office.

Counsel for the crown. We have the affidavit of the debt sworn to by Mr. Lee if there is any occasion for it.

Counsel for the prisoner. It is not necessary; the sheriff's authority is from the writ delivered to him; if it is necessary I have the record of the conviction of the plaintiff, Mr. Lee, for perjury.

Counsel for the crown. I think the judgment was arrested.

Counsel for the prisoner. No, it was not.

  John Hyde sworn.

Hyde. I am a sheriff's officer of the hundred of Ossulston.

Q. Is  Craven-street in the Strand in the hundred of Ossulston?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. What time did you go in pursuance of that warrant to arrest the person named in it?

Hyde. I dined immediately before I went: I went the 26th of August last, between two and three o'clock; a little after two, I was at dinner; Mr. Lee, the plaintiff, came to me, and asked for Mr. Armstrong; he said if I would go with him he fancied we could take General Gansel; I went with him; I got three or four men to go with me,   Thomas Hyde ,   Henry Feltus ,   William Sleigh , and   Richard Reeves ; the day we went to Craven-street Mr. Lee said he believed he was out a walking, and proposed to take him in the street; Mr. Lee and I went to Mrs. Mayo's; the prisoner lodged there; the street door was fastened back; it stood wide open.

Q. Who did you first see in the house?

Hyde. Mrs. Mayo: we went into the parlour to Mrs. Mayo. Mr. Lee asked Mrs. Mayo if the General was come in; she said he was just that minute come in; I said to Mr. Lee let us go up stairs by ourselves, as he is a gentleman we will treat him as such. I went up stairs; Mrs. Mayo told us the back room was Mr. Mayo's work shop; I went alone up the two pair of stairs; I knocked at the door of the fore room; when I found they would not open it I went down stairs again to Mr. Lee. I knocked with my knuckles at the door; a voice from within said, who is there? I asked if Mr. Mayo was there; the voice said that it was not his room, he was not there; then I went down stairs to Mr. Lee.

Q. Do you know by the voice who it was that answered? was it the General's voice?

Hyde. I rather think it was one of the servants. I found Mr. Lee in the parlour below with Mrs. Mayo; I went to the door and gave a beckon to my men, thinking we should wait till he came down again; when I beckoned my men I heard the two-pair-of-stairs door open; I turned round and met two boys on the stairs; I was on the ground floor when I saw the boys coming down the one-pair-of-stairs; they were upon the landing place of the first flight of steps, half up the first pair of stairs; I offered to go up by them; one of the boys stood with this knife in his hand (producing a common case knife) and said if I offered to go past him he would stab it in my breast; the other was just behind him; by this time my men were come in; Mr. Lee said to me, what! are all of you afraid of a boy? he took my cane out of my hand and beat the knife out of the boy's hand, which I took up and threw out of the window; then I turned them down and bid my men take care of them below; then I proceeded up stairs; the General I imagine hearing a noise came out to the landing place of the second pair of stairs;   Henry Feltus and   Thomas Hyde were a step or two behind me; when I saw him first he stood without the door, with his back towards the door; my left foot was then upon the landing place of the second pair of stairs.

Q. How far was the General from you at that time?

Hyde. About three feet I believe. I had my hand just so in my pocket, and my cane in my left hand; I said I had a warrant against him for 134 l. at the suit of Mr. Lee.

Q. Did you know Mr. Gansel?

Hyde. Yes, very well; I knew him some years ago. I held the warrant cut in my hand towards him; he drew back, and said, have you, d - n you? as he drew back I set my other foot

up, and he turned short in at the door, and endeavoured to shut it; I put my left knee to the door, between the door and the post to prevent him; the General was within the door with his back against it, trying to put it close; in a moment he fired a pistol smack through the door without saying a word, with his right hand; at that time I was getting in, the door gave a little way and I got farther in; I catched fast hold of him by the right shoulder.

Q. At the time the first pistol was fired who was then up at the door with you?

Hyde.   Thomas Hyde and   Henry Feltus ; Hyde had got upon the landing place; the other was near him; Hyde was not I dare say six inches from the door.

Q. What part of the door was the first pistol fired through?

Hyde. One of the upper pannels; the ball hit   Thomas Hyde on the side of his hair and grazed the wainscot.

Q. When this pistol was fired did you say any thing?

Hyde. I had him by the shoulder, and said for God's sake do not fire upon naked men that are only executing their office.

Q. Which shoulder?

Hyde. His right: his back was towards me; he said he had half a dozen more, and that he would not be taken, and then I saw him point another pistol at my face, with his left hand over his right shoulder; I gave a bob and it went through the hat of my man Henry Feltus as it was upon his head, and then it went into the door post.

Q. At the time the second pistol was fired was you in the room?

Hyde. Yes, and Feltus was coming close to me.

Q. Was you in the room when the second pistol was fired?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Was Feltus's head completely in?

Hyde. Yes; he had stepped one foot in or more.

Counsel for the prisoner. The door was wide open then I suppose?

Hyde. Yes: he reached for a third pistol and got it in his right hand; the men came to my assistance; I catched hold of the pistol and wreached it out of his hand, and then put it into my side pocket.

Q. Did you examine at that time in what situation the pistol was?

Hyde. No, I did not at that time; this is it (producing a horse pistol); it is loaded now. (The charge is drawn and it appears to be loaded with a brace of balls). I put him in a coach and conveyed him to Mr. Armstrong's house; I had the pistol in my inside coat pocket when in the coach; I rid backwards fronting the General; the pistol pointed towards him; he said for God's sake take care of the pistol, it is loaded! I took it out and found it was cocked; I looked into the pan and saw it was primed; I threw out the prime; it has been in my custody ever since; it was in the same situation as when produced before the charge was drawn.

Cross Examination.

Q. You said that as soon as Mr. Lee had beat the knife out of the hand of the boy you turned the boys down stairs, and bid the men take care of them below; did they return to the stair-case again before you got into the room?

Hyde. No; I never saw them any more till I came down stairs with the General.

Q. How long had you been in the General's room before you saw him?

Counsel for the prisoner. My Lord, the General begs your lordship will indulge him with a chair.

Court. Certainly.

Counsel for the prisoner. My Lord, the General has got his wound still; Mr. Lee has not cured him though he has arrested him for the cure.

Q. Then having turned the boys down you proceeded to go up the second pair of stairs, followed by Foltus and Hyde?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Did you see the General the outside of the door?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Where was you then?

Hyde. My right foot was upon the last step, my left foot upon the upper landing place where the room is; I saw him come out of the door.

Q. You could see the door I presume when you got to the landing place before that last slight of stairs?

Hyde. There are about five or six steps; the turnings are very short upon the stair case.

Q How many steps are there in the last flight of steps between the landing place next below the floor where this room was?

Hyde. I cannot say, but I could from that landing place see the door.

Q. Did you go hastily up these stairs or slowly?

Hyde. I went swift, as quick as I could, imagining the boys had left the door open.

Q. You say the General came on the outside?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Was his entire body on the outside of the door?

Hyde. Yes; he was quite outside of the door when I first saw him.

Q. When did you first take the warrant out of your pocket into your hand?

Hyde. I had my hand in my pocket with the warrant in my hand; I told him I had a warrant against him at the suit of Mr. Lee; I took it out and opened it, and was going to give it him.

Q. Was you standing still or running on when you did the act?

Hyde. I made a short stop.

Q. How far is it from the upper step of the stairs to the door itself?

Hyde. About five feet.

Q. You was got up to the top of the stairs when you first saw him, with one of your feet at the very top of the stairs, and you say that landing place there was about five feet, then you made a short stop?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. How came you to make a short stop when his whole body was outside of the door, you apprehended there would be a difficulty in arresting him and yet made a stop?

Hyde. I did not think then there would be any difficulty in arresting him.

Q. You say after you had told him you had a warrant (holding it open in your right hand) at the suit of Mr. Lee for 134 l. then and not till then he drew back?

Hyde. It was all in a moment.

Q. You made a short stop, you need not describe the motion of standing still; you made a stop - made this speech to him - took the warrant out - opened it to him - and then and not till then he drew back; then you don't know how long he had been on the outside of the door, nor how long it might be opened?

Hyde. I imagined the boy left the door open.

Q. You imagined I suppose that the General stood at the head of the stairs to listen to what passed below; there was a struggle below?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. You spoke I suppose not soft when you turned the boys down, and bid the people take care of them below, you did not say that in a whisper I presume?

Hyde. No.

Q. So then of course, if all these things were said, they must have been heard at that stair case where you saw the General at first?

Hyde. It was a good way up.

Q. It is like other rooms; there is nothing magnificent in this house; I suppose it is like other lodging rooms?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Who were the men left below to take care of the boys?

Hyde. Sleigh and Reeves.

Q. Feltus and Hyde were close at your heels?

Hyde. I dare say they were.

Q. The General being all this while the outside of the room, in going into the room, he turned short round and attempted to shut the door; was his face towards the door, or his back?

Hyde. His back; his face was towards me.

Q. If he was on the landing place, as you describe it, facing you, his back must be to the door; did he, when he had got to the inside of the room, put his back to the door or his face?

Hyde. His back; he had his left hand against the door; he turned in and clapped his back against the door.

Q. You pushed the door and found resistance?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. When did you lay hold of his right shoulder, before or after the first pistol was fired?

Hyde. I am sure the moment the pistol was off, I had him by the right shoulder, not before.

Q. If his back was at the door, how was the first pistol fired?

Hyde. With his right hand over his left shoulder.

Q. He hit that side of the door where the hinges are, when the first pistol was fired?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Did any body assist you in pushing the door besides yourself before the first pistol was fired?

Hyde. The pistol went off directly, the moment he put his back to the door, for he reached at something and put his back against the door.

Q. Had he pistols in his hand when you saw him outside the door?

Hyde. No.

Q. You found the door held hard against you from the first?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Was Feltus close by you when the first pistol was fired?

Hyde. Yes.

  Q. Thomas Hyde was rather before him?

Hyde. I believe so, they came up together.

Q. How came the door to be quite open before the second pistol was fired?

Hyde. Feltus came to my assistance after he fired the first pistol; the door gave a little way, I got further in; Feltus came to my assistance.

Q. Was you in the room when you said do not fire at naked men?

Hyde. I had hold of him by the shoulder.

Q. Was the door quite open then or no?

Hyde. It was not quite open.

Q. He instantly fired the second pistol?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. And the door was wide open then?

Hyde. Yes; the door flew open then.

Q. It was wide open then?

Hyde. It was wide enough for me to get in.

Q. But was it wide open or not?

Hyde. It was wide enough for me to get in.

Q. Was you in the room when the second pistol was fired?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Was any body else inside the room besides the General and you, when the pistol was fired?

Hyde. My man was close to me.

Q. Inside the door?

Hyde. Yes; that was Feltus, he was as close behind me as he could be.

Q. How far was the General from you when he fired the second pistol?

Hyde. I look upon it he was three feet from the door.

Q. Was there any thing to barricade the door?

Hyde. Nothing but his own person.

Q. Was the General upon his legs or not?

Hyde. He was upon his legs.

Q. When was he down?

Hyde. When I wrenched the third pistol out of his hands.

Q. How came he to fall down?

Hyde. By my wrenching the pistol from his hand.

Q. It was not the pushing open the door then that threw him down?

Hyde. No.

Q. You say he reached it?

Hyde. Yes, from a chair on the right hand going in.

Q. Which side are the hinges of the door upon?

Hyde. Upon the left hand side.

Q. How was the General handled after this business, he was down upon the ground when you wrenched this pistol from him?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. I believe he met with several blows?

Hyde. I know of none, I never saw one given him.

Q. No wounds?

Hyde. No; he took hold of the bannisters of the stairs, they broke, and he fell down.

Q. Had he no blow with the butt end of a pistol?

Hyde. Not that I know of.

Q. Had you no pistol?

Hyde. No.

Q. Had none of your companions?

Hyde. Not that I know of.

Q. But below stairs before you went, had none of them a pistol?

Hyde. No, I saw none.

Q. You put him into a coach and conveyed him to Armstrong's?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. You have kept the pistol ever since?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. It has never been discharged?

Hyde. No.

Q. Did you say that you had leave of Mrs. Mayo to break open any door in the house?

Hyde. I never said so.

Q. And nobody with you said so?

Hyde. No.

Q. Did you ask leave of Mrs. Mayo to break open the doors?

Hyde. No.

Q. I take it the General's body was near the lock part of the door, and not the hinge, when you had your hand upon his shoulder?

Hyde. Yes.

Counsel for the crown. When you go up to the two pair of stairs is there any door that fronts you?

Hyde. The General's room door.

Q. Before you get on the landing place does the door front, or is it on one side?

Hyde. Fronting.

Q. Was there any cutlass in the company, or were either of you armed?

Hyde. No, none of us were armed, only I had a stick.

Q. When you had taken the General into custody was he willing to go or not?

Hyde. He would not go, he lay down and

took hold of the bannisters of the stairs, and they broke.

Q. Had you either of the balls in your hand after the pistols had been fired?

Hyde. I saw one of the balls in one of the mens hands.

Court. You say you knew the General very well; do you think he knew you?

Hyde. I cannot positively say that; I was not an officer when I saw him before, I was only an assistant.

Court. The General must have seen you coming up two or three steps at least?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. How many steps does this door command?

Hyde. Five or six.

Court. Then he must have seen you; did you see him?

Hyde. I did not look, not expecting him.

Q. from the Jury. Which way did the door open into the General's room, to the right or left?

Hyde. The hinges are upon the left.

Q. from the Jury. How long was your knee in that position between the door and the door post?

Hyde. A very short time.

Q. from the Jury. Where do you think the General got the pistols from?

Hyde. From a chair I suppose.

Q. from the Jury. Could you possibly see the General catch up a pistol you having only your knee in?

Hyde. I saw him catch something up; the ball came through the pannel next the hinges.

  Thomas Hyde sworn.

I am brother to   John Hyde ; I went between two and three in the afternoon to Mrs. Mayo's; there were   John Hyde , myself,   Henry Feltus ,   William Sleigh and   Richard Reeves : when   John Hyde went in, I and Feltus and Reeves and Sleigh, were at the upper end of Craven-street; I saw my brother go into the house, and I came to the house in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour;   John Hyde went in first, we all went down the Street,   John Hyde was engaged with the two lads, I was the first of the followers that went in.

Q. When you went in, did any other go in with you?

Hyde. Yes, Feltus, Sleigh and Reeves were just behind me; one of the boys swore the first that came up he would stick the knife in him; one said but little, the other had the knife in his hand.

Q. Which spoke?

Hyde. The young lad with black hair; one of our assistants knocked the knife out of his hand, we put them out of the door into the yard and bolted them both out; Mr. Hyde pushed up stairs; I heard him speak to some body, I could not distinguish what they said; Feltus and I left two men, Reeves and Sleigh, to guard the boys; Feltus got the advantage upon the stairs of me; Mr. Hyde got the door partly open and got his knee into the door; just as I came up to the door I turned myself round.

Q. Which side was you on, the lock or hinge side?

Hyde. Nearest the hinge; I heard them talking, but could not tell what they said.

Q. Did you see any body upon the stairs?

Hyde. No; Mr. Hyde had got up at the door before we came near him; I kept myself up to the door, and turned round; the pistol went off, and gave me a little brush by my face; I saw the ball; Feltus took it up in his hand and followed Mr. Hyde to the door; the ball brushed my hair.

Q. How near was you to the door at that time?

Hyde. Not above five or six inches.

Q. How near to the hinge did the ball go?

Hyde. The upper part of the pannel; it went through the double pannel. Feltus pushed in after he took up the ball to assist Mr. Hyde; Hyde catched the General by the shoulder.

Q. Which shoulder?

Hyde. I thought he catched him by the right shoulder.

Q. Could you see the General at this time?

Hyde. I saw nothing but the colour of his morning gown. Mr. Hyde said, pray, sir, don't fire at naked men: he made answer he had half a dozen ready for us and he would not be taken; he would shoot every one of us.

Q. How far was the door open at this time?

Hyde. Six or seven inches; I suppose wide enough for a man's hip to be in; Hyde got in; Feltus pushed in after him; he shot again, and shot him through the hat; the ball went in at the door post.

Q. Where did Feltus stand?

Hyde. He got in at the door; I heard the pistol go off and saw the smoke.

Q. Did you see any part of the General at that time?

Hyde. I saw his morning gown.

Q. Did you see the second pistol fired, or only heard it.

Hyde. Only heard it; the ball lodged in the post I believe; there is a hole in the post now. I went directly into the room upon the second pistol's firing; Hyde had hold of the General; the General tumbled down with the pistol in his hand.

Q. How came he to tumble down?

Hyde. Whether he ran back and got his heel in the carpet, or what, I cannot tell.

Q. What sort of a pistol was it?

Hyde. A horse pistol.

Q. Did he say any thing then?

Hyde. I do not know that he did; we took a pistol out of his hand; I held his arm while Hyde (I believe it was he) took it out of his hand; Mr. Hyde took the pistol and put it into his pocket: he hung much by the bannisters coming down stairs; they broke; we got him in a coach, and took him to Mr. Armstrong's; in the coach Mr. Hyde's pistol hung out of his pocket; he put in his hand and pulled it out; the General said, pray take care, it is loaded. Mr. Hyde knocked out the prime, and let down the cock; it was cocked and primed.

Cross Examination.

Q. How many persons in all were concerned in apprehending General Gansel? there were Lee the plaintiff, the two Hydes, Feltus, Sleigh and Reeves, in all six?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Did curiosity excite nobody to join you? did not somebody else go into the house beside you and your company?

Hyde. No.

Q. Had you occasion to expect any resistance that so many of you went?

Hyde. Not that I know; but it was talked he was a desperate man.

Q. But did you expect resistance?

Hyde. No.

Q. Is it usual to go six of you when you expect no resistance?

Hyde. Very often.

Q. Is it usual to go so many of you when you expect no resistance?

Hyde. We did not expect any such things as happened.

Q. Did you ever in your life, when you expected no resistance, carry such a posse of people?

Hyde. No.

Q. The first thing you say there was a struggle with a boy on the stairs?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. What the boy said to the officers was it spoke in a whisper or loud?

Hyde. Loud; in a great rage.

Q. How long was it before the knife was struck out of the boy's hand?

Hyde. I suppose a minute.

Q. How much more?

Hyde. It might be near two minutes; I cannot say to a minute.

Q. When you was half way up stairs then you saw   John Hyde ?

Hyde. Yes, his back was towards me close to the door.

Q. His back was towards you, can you swear any part of his knee was then in the room?

Hyde. When I got up to him it was.

Q. Did you see any more than his knee in the door at that time?

Hyde. No.

Q. Had none of you any arms?

Hyde. No, none at all.

Q. Not one of you?

Hyde. I never saw any pistol but the General's.

Q. Was there any conversation with Mr. or Mrs. Mayo about what liberty they should give you?

Hyde. No.

Q. Was there any talk about having leave to break open doors?

Hyde. No, not a word.

Counsel for the crown. How far was Hyde up the stairs before you?

Hyde. About half way.

Q. How far had you got up stairs before you saw Hyde? did you hear Hyde's voice?

Hyde. Yes.

Q. Did you hear any body talking to him?

Hyde. Yes; I heard somebody's voice but could not tell whose.

Counsel for the prisoner. How long was it that the second pistol went off after the words you mentioned that he had half a dozen more?

Hyde. It was but a trifle of time, the pistol went off directly upon it.

Court. When was it the General made use of those words he had half dozen more?

Hyde. After he had fired the first pistol.

Q. Where was   John Hyde then?

Hyde. Getting into the door.

Q. Was his knee in then?

Hyde. Yes, it was; and directly the second pistol was fired.

  Henry Feltus sworn.

Feltus. I was one of the men that went to Craven-street: when I went first to the house, the first thing was we stopped at the top of Craven-street, and Mr. Hyde and Mr. Lee went to the house; when he gave us an item we all went together. I was the first that entered the house; there was Mr. Hyde standing upon the stairs; there were two servants, one with a knife, the other I believe had not; he swore the first person that came up he would stab him with the knife; that was the young man with black hair; the plaintiff said what will nobody go up? Mr. Hyde and he went up; the first thing was one young man was handed down the stairs by the plaintiff or Mr. Hyde, then the other; I delivered them to two men below, Sleigh and Reeves; I made the best of my way up stairs; I saw Mr. Hyde and the General upon the landing place -

Q. Where was you when you saw him upon the landing place?

Feltus. Upon the middle of the stairs; when he saw me come up he made the best of his way in doors; the first thing I saw was Mr. Hyde's leg and thigh between the door and the wall; with that I went up to him, and Mr.   Thomas Hyde followed me; the General turned a pistol and fired through the pannel of the door; the ball went into the wall and returned back upon the landing place I believe; I had the ball in my hand, but what I did with it I cannot say; Mr. Hyde laid his hands upon his shoulder with a warrant in his hand, or it was a bit of paper I know; the door was opened; then he shoved in; the General fired over Mr. Hyde's shoulder; it came through my hat; this is it; my hat was on at the time.

Q. At the time the second pistol was fired, and the ball went through your hat, where was your head then?

Feltus. On my shoulders.

Q. But where was you?

Feltus. The outside of the door between the door and the door post;   John Hyde had hold of him by the shoulder.

Cross Examination.

Q. Who were the people with you at the upper end of Craven-street?

Feltus.   William Sleigh , Thomas Hyde and   Richard Reeves .

Q. Who were at the gentleman's house?

Feltus. Mr. Hyde and the plaintiff, nobody else to my knowledge.

Q. How long after they went was it that they beckoned you to come?

Feltus. They were not in two minutes.

Q. Not two minutes?

Feltus. No, when they beckoned me to come.

Q. After that beckon you all went towards the house?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Which went in first?

Feltus. I did.

Q. Are you sure of that?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Where did you go when you came into the house?

Feltus. Into the entry.

Q. Which of you four went into the parlour?

Feltus. I cannot say that any of us did.

Q. Did not John Hyde shew you all into the parlour?

Feltus. No; I was not in the parlour at all.

Q. Then the first thing you saw was two boys standing upon the stairs?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. You are very sure there were two?

Feltus. Yes; one had a knife.

Q. Were they not pushed and shoved violently down stairs?

Feltus. They were handed down stairs; the young man in the black hair swore he would rip the first man up that came up stairs.

Q. Were not they pulled down or pushed down?

Feltus. No; I saw the plaintiff and Mr. Hyde take hold of one of them, and put him down stairs; I received them; they were pushed into the yard.

Q. All this made a great disturbance in the house?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. When did you see either or both of them again after that?

Feltus. Not till such time as the gentleman was brought down.

Q. At what time did   John Hyde go up after that?

Feltus. Directly.

Q. Do you mean to say that after the two boys were bolted out in the yard that you did not see them on any part of the stairs till the General was brought down?

Feltus. I did not.

Q. At what distance did you follow   John Hyde ?

Feltus. At five or six steps of the stairs.

Q. How many steps may there be from the landing place of the General's door to the next landing place that you come down?

Feltus. I did not count them, there may be five or six.

Q. Then you had him all the way in your sight?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Upon what part of the stair case did you see the General?

Feltus. Just as he came out of his own door, before he came down any steps or stairs; there he stood; I was upon the landing place in the middle of it; I could see him.

Q. Was the General standing upon the stairs when you first saw him, or coming out of his room?

Feltus. Standing upon the stairs speaking to Mr. Hyde.

Q. Did you hear any thing said?

Feltus. I did not hear any words there.

Q. Then there were no words there, and you was near enough to hear?

Feltus. None to my knowledge; I was near enough to hear.

Q. When did you first hear words spoke between them?

Feltus. After the firing of the first pistol.

Q. Then you did not see the General at the time you heard those words?

Feltus. No; he was in the room, and Mr. Hyde's leg and foot in the door way.

Q. You saw no part of the General's body at this time?

Feltus. Yes, I saw Mr. Hyde's hand upon him; I heard Mr. Hyde say for God's sake don't fire at naked men.

Q. That was the first you heard?

Feltus. Yes: the gentleman swore he had half a dozen more, and would blow all their brains out.

Q. The door was still in the same situation?

Feltus. Yes; he had then about half his body in.

Q. You did not see the general at that time?

Feltus. I saw three parts of him then.

Q. How far might the General be from the door?

Feltus. Close to it.

Q. Did you see his face?

Feltus. Yes, very plain towards me; the pistol went off when part of my body was in.

Q. Which shoulder was his hand upon?

Feltus. I cannot say.

Q. Was not the General's face towards him then?

Feltus. Yes, towards me at least.

Q. Then his body was towards you?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. What part of the room was the General in when you went in?

Feltus. He was upon the ground; he had fired a second pistol then.

Q. Did you see him when he fired the second pistol?

Feltus. Yes, I saw him as well as I see you.

Q. Was he with his face towards you then?

Feltus. He was.

Q. With which hand did he hold the pistol?

Feltus. I think with his left hand.

Q. How came he to be upon the ground?

Feltus. I do not know whether the sheriff's officer threw him down or no, but the next thing I saw him do was to put the third pistol towards my head.

Q. You cannot tell where he got that third pistol from?

Feltus. No.

Q. What part of the room was he lying down upon?

Feltus. Just by the door.

Q. In what condition was the door when he fired the second pistol?

Feltus. About half open or there away.

Q. And his face was then towards you?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Had you no pistol?

Feltus. None at all.

Q. Which was the man that had a pistol below stairs?

Feltus. I did not see any.

Q. Did not you or somebody present a pistol to the lad, and hear nobody say blow the lad's brains out?

Feltus. I did not.

Q. Was it Mr. or Mrs. Mayo gave leave to break open any doors in the house?

Feltus. I never heard any thing about leave to break open a door, I heard the boys when they stood upon the landing place say my master is out of town; Mrs. Mayo said he is in the two pair of stairs fore room; that is all that ever I heard; I never heard a word about breaking open a door.

Court. You could see the General stand at his door when you was about six or seven steps below?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. He was then upon the landing place?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. You followed   John Hyde as quick as you could go?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Only he had got five or six steps before you began to follow him?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. You saw the General at this flight of stairs?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Was Hyde then near him or close to him?

Feltus. As close to him as possible unless he had laid hold of him.

Q. You say when the General saw you he turned in directly?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Then Hyde put his knee between the door and the wall?

Feltus. Yes.

Q. Then all this time you did not hear a word spoke?

Feltus. No.

Q. Should not you have heard it if there had been a word spoke? if he had spoke low you must have heard him?

Feltus. I cannot say.

Q. How soon was   Thomas Hyde after you?

Feltus. We all went up as fast as possible, and   John Hyde had a piece of paper in his hand.

Q. You told us just now Hyde said for God's sake do not fire upon naked men, and he said directly he had half a dozen more which were not unloaded, and that he would blow all your brains out; which hand did he hold the pistol in?

Feltus. I think the left hand.

Q. He held it in his left hand as Hyde had hold of him, if he fired with his left hand over Hyde's shoulder, then it was pointed at you?

Feltus. I believe it was; it went through my hat.

Q. Where was   Thomas Hyde all this while?

Feltus. I cannot say whether on the top of the stairs or gone down.

Q. You did not see him in the room?

Feltus. No.

Q. from the Jury. You say when you went up stairs you saw the General on the landing place, that on seeing the officer he withdrew into his own room, and the door was not shut?

Feltus. No.

Q. What position was the General in?

Feltus. I believe he leaned his body against the door, and that his face was to the door.

  William Sleigh sworn.

Q. Do you remember going with Hyde on the 26th of August?

Sleigh. Yes.

Q. Who was in company with you?

Sleigh. Mr.   John Hyde ,   Thomas Hyde ,   Henry Feltus ,   Richard Reeves , and myself.

Q. Was there any body else?

Sleigh. The plaintiff and Mr. Hyde went into the house first, we were waiting in the street.

Q. Did you afterwards go into the house?

Sleigh. Mr. Hyde came and called me.

Q. Which Hyde?

Sleigh. John.

Q. Where did he come to you?

Sleigh. To the door of the house; he desired us to come in.

Q. What distance were you at that time from the house?

Sleigh. Twenty or thirty yards.

Q. Where was you when he spoke to you?

Sleigh. In the street, he beckoned and said come in.

Q. Do you mean he spoke it, or did you understand by the motion?

Sleigh. He made a motion; I heard him say something; I could not hear him distinctly.

Q. Describe the manner of his beckoning you, what did he say when he came near you?

Sleigh. When we came into the house one of the prisoner's boys came down with a naked knife.

Q. How far did he come down?

Sleigh. Half way down the stairs; he asked what we wanted, Hyde asked him if the General was at home, he said he was in the Country; then the gentlewoman of the house said he was up two pair of stairs forwards; the boy said the first that attempted to go up stairs, he would run the knife in him, they got the boy down and got the knife out of his hand.

Q. Was there one boy or two?

Sleigh. Two; we stopped them.

Q. How far did they go up the stairs?

Sleigh. Not to the first landing-place; they were attempting to go up, and we kept them down.

Q. Did you prevent them from going up?

Sleigh. Yes.

Q. Where did you keep them then?

Sleigh. At the bottom of the stairs. When I got into the room, Mr. Gansel was down upon his knee I believe; I did not go up till the second pistol had been fired.

Q. Did you hear any words?

Sleigh. No, nothing but the pistols going off.

Q. Had any of you arms, or any pistol?

Sleigh. I saw no pistol.

Cross Examination.

Q. When did the second boy come, not him with the knife, the other boy?

Sleigh. He made his appearance as soon almost as the boy with the knife, he might be a minute or two afterwards, he came afterwards.

Q. Who went in first of you that were called out of the street?

Sleigh. Feltus, I believe.

Q. How many went into the parlour?

Sleigh. I cannot say, I went into the parlour.

Q. Who else was with you there?

Sleigh. I cannot remember any one but me.

Q. Who was in the parlour when you went in?

Sleigh. The gentlewoman of the house.

Q. Was not John Hyde in there; had Hyde passed the boy with the knife before the other boy met him?

Sleigh. Yes.

Q. Where did the second boy meet Hyde after he had passed the boy with the knife?

Sleigh. He was upon the landing place.

Counsel for the crown. The second boy came down, just as Hyde passed the first landing place?

Sleigh. Yes.

Court. What became of Lee the plaintiff?

Sleigh. He was upon the stairs with the boy, I do not know what became of him.

Q. How could the boys return to the bottom of the stairs, if they were bolted in the yard?

Sleigh. They came through the kitchen.

Q. from the Jury. Which of the two boys had the knife?

Sleigh. The black haired boy.

  Richard Reeves . I am one of the men that went with Hyde to Mrs. Mayo's in Craven-street; Mr. Hyde was in the house before we came in; going up stairs there were two lads, one with a knife in his hand, who said he would rip us up, if we attempted to go up stairs, for his master was not at home; Mr. Sleigh and I had the care of the lads; they were put in the yard; they came up again a back way to the stairs.

Q. Did they pass you up the stairs?

Reeves. No, I prevented them; I heard the report of a pistol, in about a second of time I heard another.

Q. Before these pistols were fired had the lads passed you up stairs?

Reev es. No.

Cross Examination.

Q. What was the occasion of so many of you going to assist in arresting the General, you expected resistance I suppose?

Reeves. I suppose that was something: we heard that he was a terrible man; I judged so; I heard he used one Mr. Vere ill; I have belonged to Mr. Armstrong some years.

Q. Do Sleigh and Feltus?

Reeves. Occasionally.

Q. Did the two Hydes occasionally?

Reeves. Hyde is an officer.

Q. Was there any talk between you of its being necessary that there should be so many?

Reeves. No.

Q. Where did you wait while Hyde went into the house?

Reeves. At the top of the street.

Q. How long had Hyde been in the house before he called you in?

Reeves. About eight or ten minutes.

Q. Where did you stay?

Reeves. Half up the street; he came out.

Q. Which of the followers went in first?

Reeves. I do not know.

Q. Whether   Tom Hyde was not in first?

Reeves. I cannot be certain.

Q. Did you go into the parlour?

Reeves. Yes.

Q. Did   John Hyde ?

Reeves. He was in the parlour before.

Q. Did Sleigh go into the parlour?

Reeves. I cannot say.

Q. Or   Thomas Hyde ?

Reeves. I cannot say.

Q. Or Feltus?

Reeves. I cannot say.

Q. Cannot you tell us which of them were in the parlour?

Reeves. I believe   Thomas Hyde was.

Q. Do you believe Sleigh was in the parlour or not?

Reeves. I do not believe he was, very likely he might be in the parlour.

Q. Do you believe he was or not?

Reeves. Yes, I believe he was.

Q. Now do you believe Feltus was in the parlour?

Reeves. I did not see him in the parlour.

Q. Do you believe he was in the parlour?

Reeves. I believe not.

Q. What was agreed upon below stairs in the parlour?

Reeves. I heard nothing agreed upon; I heard after I came into the house, that the General was gone up stairs.

Q. Had   John Hyde been up stairs then, before?

Reeves. Yes.

Q. Had not Hyde told you, that this Mrs. Mayo said that the General was just come in before you came into the house?

Reeves. No.

Q. You heard her say in the parlour, that the General was just came in, and gone up stairs?

Reeves. Yes.

Q. Were the boys close together when you saw them?

Reeves. Yes; they were both upon the landing place when I first came in.

Q. They had neither of them gone down stairs before you put them into the yard?

Reeves. No.

Q. Had   John Hyde passed the first boy with the knife, before the red-haired boy came down; did the second boy come down after he had passed the first?

Reeves. No.

Q. Did not you expect that the General would have locked himself in, hearing this struggle below with the boys?

Reeves. I did not hear any thing about it.

Q. You understood that   John Hyde had been up stairs, before he beckoned for you?

Reeves. I did not know that.

Q. From the Jury. Had the boy the knife in the yard?

Reeves. He went down stairs with the knife.

Q. From the Jury. When was the knife taken from the boy?

Reeves. I don't know; I believe the Plaintiff did it.

Mrs. Mayo sworn.

Q. Did the prisoner lodge at your house in August last?

Mayo. Yes.

Q. What is your husband's name?

Mayo. Joseph.

Q. Do you remember the officers coming to your house?

Mayo. Yes; there was one came in first, I do not know the name of the person; the street door was open, and had been for two months tied back with a string; they came into the parlour, the parlour door was a-jarr, one came in first, two or three came in afterwards.

Q. Had you any conversation with them?

Mayo. None at all; they asked me if the General was up stairs, I told them yes; that was all that passed.

Q. Did you tell them what apartment he had?

Mayo. Yes; up two pair of stairs, the fore-room.

Q. When you go up stairs, does the door face you?

Mayo. Yes.

Q. Does it face the stairs as you go up, or the third pair of stairs?

Mayo. The stairs as you go up: I just peeped my head out of the door, and at the time there came in a gentleman that served his time with my husband. I pulled him in, and locked him in with me in the parlour. I heard two pistols go off, that is all I can say. I did not go up till next morning; the door was locked, and they had the key; there is the marks of two balls, one in the post of the door, the other through the door.

Q. Had you at any time spoke to the General concerning your apprehensions of his being arrested?

Mayo. We had words several times; I told him if he did not take care of himself, he might be arrested before he was aware.

Q. What answer did he make you?

Mayo. I cannot say; he never used me with great civility.

Q. What did he say?

Mayo. I really cannot recollect it.

Cross Examination.

Q. The General I believe has other rooms besides these two where he was at this time in your house?

Mayo. Three rooms in all and a garret.

Q. Did he hire these lodgings by the month, or the year?

Mayo. By the year.

Q. How many years has he had them?

Mayo. Many years.

Q. Did you hear any thing said to, or by these boys?

Mayo. I was not up stairs; I do not know what passed.

Q. You did not hear them say the General was in the country?

Mayo. No.

Q. Nor did not set that matter right by what you said?

Mayo. No.

Q. Did you see   John Hyde after he went up stairs?

Mayo. He came back for a knife, which was thrown out of the window.

Q. Did you tell any body that the General was in the house, just come in?

Mayo. Yes; they asked me and I said so.

Q. Do you know whether the officer, or any of of them had any pistols?

Mayo. There was a pistol on our dumb waiter in the parlour; he trembled when he came in; he ran to the middle shelf of the waiter.

Q. Was that your pistol?

Mayo. Yes; I desired them not to take it out; but they took it. I had the pistol again next day.

Q. They took the pistol out of the parlour?

Mayo. There was one pistol, and they had it.

Q. Who had you the pistol of next day?

Mayo. I cannot tell.

Q. What sort of a pistol was it?

Mayo. A double barrel pistol left by a gentleman to be repaired.

Counsel for the Crown. Was it a loaded pistol?

Mayo. No.

Q. From the Jury. Do you recollect when this pistol was taken; was it before the General's pistols were fired, or after?

Mayo. Before; there were three of them in the room as the time the pistol was taken.

Prisoner's Defence.

My Lord, though not quite unused to speak in publick, yet my Lord, upon an occasion like this, which is so very tender, not only to myself, but to the whole of his Majesty's subjects be they where they will; I must beg leave therefore, my Lord, to read to you what I have reduced to writing.

My Lord and Gentlemen of the Jury,

Distressed and harassed as I have been for three weeks past, I am now at a loss how to address you, upon this, to me, most melancholy occasion.

It has been my misfortune to have an action commenced against me, by a person who had no just ground for such a proceeding: But this is not a time for a discussion of that point; and therefore, I shall not trouble you on that head. It is also my misfortune, that the Plaintiff in that action would not content himself with the ordinary methods of making an arrest. Had he been willing, in the usual course of such a business, to watch his opportunity, he, and his associates, might have arrested me in the open street. I went out on Thursday the 26th day of August, as I had done for several days before. It will be proved to you, that I had been with Mr. Merrick, the agent, who lives in Parliament street, for several mornings successively. On the day when I was so unfortunately beser, at the suit, as I am informed, of Mr. Lee, the Surgeon, I walked out; and at some distance from my lodgings in Craven-street, went into an hackney coach, and drove to Oxford Road; and from thence walked to Kensington gardens. I returned from thence between one and two in the afternoon. If it had been the intention of the parties concerned, to effect their purpose in a quiet manner, they might then, and on several days preceeding, have executed their process; but their design was to assault me in my lodgings, and for that purpose, they came with a numerous and armed force.

It was also my misfortune, that when their designs were carried into execution, they were not content to reserve their story for a Court of Justice. The news papers were filled with long accounts, all intended to inflame prejudices against me, and in the detail, invention was stretched, to dress up the narrative with the most aggravating circumstances.

But I am now before a Court, and before a Jury, that will not suffer impressions of that sort to have any influence.

The case which the witnesses have attempted to make out against me, is in most of the circumstances wholly new to me. My counsel, from their practice and experience, will be better able than myself, to make the proper observations on the evidence that has been brought against me. All that I can do, is, to relate a plain account of what really did happen, and in the very order and manner in which it happened.

On Thursday, August 26th, I had been in the morning in Kensington gardens. I met there Mr. Vickers, a wine merchant, who lives in the Hay-Market. About one o'clock, or soon after, I arrived at my lodgings in Craven-street. I have lodged in that house above eight and

thirty years, and for about sixteen years of that time, Mr. Mayo has been the landlord. Being much fatigued after my walk, I went up to my bed room, which is up two pair of stairs, to the front of the house; I put on my night-gown, and lay down on the bed: my two servants, who are brothers, by name Harry and James, were in the room with me.

It was my custom to keep the door of whatever room I was in locked. My affairs, I was in hopes, would be soon settled; and till that could be done, I do not mean to dissemble, that I meant by keeping my door locked, to provide for the security of my person. I know it has been propagated, in order to prejudice me, that I did not intend to satisfy my creditors: but if it were now in a trial, I could prove, that I was taking every step to settle my affairs, which, I must own, from various incidents have continued embarrassed. Till matters could be put on a proper footing, it was natural to take care for the liberty of my person.

From Mr. Lee, the surgeon, I had no apprehensions, because he must know, that he has been generously paid, and that he has no cause of complaint.

In this situation I was on my bed; very little expecting that my dwelling would be surrounded in the manner it was. My servants, Harry and James, were both in the room: Harry was preparing some bread and milk for me; the infirmities of my constitution make a milk diet necessary. The room door as usual was locked; on a sudden I heard a gentle tapping, as if with a knuckle. Harry asked, without opening the door, who was there, and what he wanted: somebody answered,

"I want Mr. Mayo." Harry told him, that Mr. Mayo lived on the ground floor and kitchen. The man, who ever he was, went down stairs, and Harry saw him through the key hole; thereupon I ordered Harry to go down, and see who he was, and what was his business. Harry went down; from him the Court and Jury will be informed of what passed below stairs.

He saw, and you will hear it from him, Mr. Lee and several men with him. At the approach of my servant, they all ran out of the house; but they soon returned, and Lee, at the head of them, went into the front parlour to speak with Mayo.

In a short time I heard a violent uproar at the bottom of the stairs; Harry will tell the Court, that when they came out of Mayo's parlour, he stood on the first landing place, and asked them what they wanted. They said, they must go up stairs; and one Hyde, who was there, having armed himself with a double barrel pistol belonging to Mayo, swore he would blow out the servant's brains, if he interrupted them; Hyde presented the pistol, but Harry bid him fire if he dare. A general tumult ensued; I ordered my servant James to go down and see what they were doing to his brother; but before he went down, I locked myself up in my bed-chamber. My servant James will tell you, that he heard me turn the key in the lock, apprehending from all I heard, that I was to be assaulted in my own apartments, which I paid for by the year, and where nobody had a right to enter, not even Mayo himself, as I had a distinct property in the habitation, which I hired and paid for. I placed an elbow chair against the door, and resolved to defend myself in the just possession of my own, if any attack should be made.

The noise in the mean time increased below stairs; you will hear from my two servants, that they were both seized by force, and carried by the men, who were in the combination, into the back yard, and there locked out of the house, with intent, no doubt, to perpetrate their purpose, and leave me without a witness to tell the story.

But my servant Harry, as he will inform you, got down into the area, and so into the kitchen: from thence he came up stairs and opened the back door to let his brother James into the house.

They both attempted to go up stairs, but were opposed by a man stationed on some part of the stairs with a club in his hand. James was not able to pass him, but Harry got up as far as the second landing place, near my bed-chamber door.

By this time a body of people were committing every violence at my bed room door; all cursing and swearing in the most outrageous manner; threatening to break in, if the door was not opened; and declaring that they had fire arms, and would shoot if I resisted; I answered, and I conceive I was warranted in so doing, that I had a right to defend myself in my own house; that I had pistols, and would protect my person and my habitation.

Their menaces growing still more violent, and a push being made at the door, in the

hurry, the confusion, and the agitation of my spirits, I discharged the pistol in my right-hand; the ball went through the further pannel from the lock, and in such a direction that it ascended above their heads.

I was in hopes this would have dispersed them; but they were too desperate, and too fatally bent on further violence.

They pressed with all their strength against my room-door; and I, on the inside, continued to push an elbow chair against it, with what force I had. But their violence was such, that they burst the door; and I fell to the ground, the chair tumbling with me; and a pistol which was in my left hand at the previous instant went off by accident.

If to do bodily harm to any man had been my intention, it will easily occur to every one that hears me, that I could have taken my station at a distance from the door, and waited there till the first man entered.

To hinder them from breaking in was all I intended; and in doing what I did, I submit it to a Jury of my country, whether I had not a right to defend myself in my own house? I always understood, and I understand now from the authority of Mr. Justice * Blackstone, that the house of an Englishman is his castle; and that a room which a man hires for a certain time is his house.

* Commentaries, Vol. IV. p. 225.

I will not trouble you with a narrative of the treatment I met with, when overpowered in the manner I have related; beat, bruised, wounded; without a coat or hat, in my night-gown, and covered with blood, I was dragged through Craven street to the Strand, there put into an hackney coach, and carried to the house of one Armstrong, a sheriff's officer; and from thence on Thursday last, to my great surprize, I was hurried to Newgate; I suppose that my prosecutors might make their charge here, to prevent my complaint against them in another place.

Ever since this misfortune happened, my time has been passed in such distress of health and mind, that I am little qualified to make out my own justification. I leave the rest to my Counsel; I rely upon the wisdom of the Judges, before whom I am tried; and I rest my cause, with entire confidence, in the equity and uprightness of the gentlemen of the Jury.

Court to Mrs. Mayo. I think you say this gentleman had the lodgings by the year?

Mayo. Yes.

Q. And has had them many years?

Mayo. Before I was married; I have been married to Mr. Mayo ten years.

Court. I believe as soon as you go into your house, you g o along a passage; you turn on the right-hand to your door that goes into the parlour?

Mayo. Yes.

Q. That door is opposite to the stair-case that goes into the kitchen?

Mayo. You go strait to the stairs from the street-door?

Court. So then the passage leads directly up stairs, without any communication with any room whatsoever?

Mayo. Yes.

Q. From the Jury. Was the room door broke where the General lodged?

Mayo. I don't know really.

  Henry Ashfield sworn.

Ashfield. I am a servant of General Gansel>, and so is my brother; I have lived with the General about four years; James about three quarters of a year.

Q. You remember the twenty-sixth of August when the General was arrested?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Had the General been out that morning?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did you attend him out?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Where did he go?

Ashfield. To Kensington Gardens; I went to Northumberland-street, got a coach for him, and he walked through a passage; and from there we went to Kensington Gardens, and there we met one Mr. Vickers, a wine merchant; we walked round the gardens, and then I attended him home; he got into the coach about one o'clock, we came home a little before two.

Q. Where did you alight from the coach?

Ashfield. In Northumberland street; from thence the General walked to his lodgings.

Q. His bed-room, I understand, is two pair of stairs forward, did he go to that room?

Ashfield. Yes; he said he was very fatigued, tired, and faint; he pulled off his coat and waistcoat, and put on a night gown and his cap, and lay on the bed.

Q. Was he in a bad state of health before that?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. was you in the room when he laid down

Ashfield. Yes; I was cutting some bread and butter for his dinner.

Q. It is usual for him to eat bread and butter for dinner?

Ashfield. Yes, and garden stuff, that is his general dinner when he is not well.

Q. I believe this is the knife you was cutting the bread and butter with.

Ashfield. The knife I had in my hand when upon the stairs, it was the same knife with which I had been cutting bread and butter.

Q. Was James in the room with you while you was cutting the bread and butter?

Ashfield. He was.

Q. Do you remember the circumstance about the tap at the door?

Ashfield. Yes; the General asked, who is that? I asked, who is that? through the door: somebody answered, is Mr. Mayo here; I said no, this was not Mr. Mayo's appartment, that he lived in the parlour below stairs: then the man went down stairs, I heard his foot; my master told me to go and look who that was when he had got down the first flight of stairs. I went to see.

Q. Was your master satisfied he was got down stairs before he bid you look?

Ashfield. Yes: then I went down stairs, and saw a man knocking at the parlour door, one   John Hyde , and a great number of men in the passage, and Mr. Lee along with them; Mr. Lee said something to him, they all went out to the street door.

Q. Upon seeing you?

Ashfield. Yes, upon seeing me; they stayed about two minutes, then they returned again and knocked at the parlour door; Mr. Lee said, Mrs. Mayo let me in: Mr. Lee went in, and all the fellows that were with him.

Q. How many of them were there?

Ashfield. A great number, I believe about ten or eleven.

Q. They all went in?

Ashfield. Yes, all went in.

Q. Did you go up stairs to inform your master what was the matter below?

Ashfield. I told him there was Mr. Lee with a parcel of russians with cudgels and sticks.

Q. You suspected they were bailiffs?

Ashfield. No; I did not know what they were.

Q. Did you find your master's door locked or unlocked, when you came up stairs?

Ashfield. Then it was locked; James asked who was there; I said it was me; he knew my voice, opened the door, and let me in.

Q. Had you any orders from your master then to do any thing more?

Ashfield. No; I went down stairs again, I had no orders, I heard the bolt of the lock turn when he let me down.

Q. Did you take a knife in your hand at that time when you went down?

Ashfield. Yes; I had it in my hand all the while: I went down to the last landing place before the ground floor, stayed about a minute, and then the whole party came out of the parlour. Lee went towards the street door in the passage and stood there;   John Hyde came up to me, and all of them following, he said he wanted to go up stairs; I told him the General was not at home; he said he knew he was at home, and would see him.

Q. did you make use of any attitudes to resist him?

Ashfield. I said I could not let them go up, I did not know their business: I said the General was not at home.   John Hyde called out for a pistol; one of the men went into the parlour, and brought a double barrel pistol.

Q. Did you make use of any threatening words; I will cut any man's throat, or run the knife into him, or any threat whatsoever?

Ashfield. I am sure I did not make use of any kind of threat.

Q. Do you know the name of the man that brought the pistol?

Ashfield. No. Hyde presented a pistol to me, and swore he would shoot me if I did not let him go up stairs, but that he would not hurt me if I would let him go up; he told me he did not want me he wanted the General. I told him he might shoot if he would, I would not let him go up.

Q. How did you hold the knife in your hand?

Ashfield. In the manner you hold it now: Lee said, d - n him, knock him down; he took a stick from one of the men and hit me a knock with it; upon that   John Hyde snatches hold of my hand where the knife was, and takes hold of the knife and throws it down.

Q. During this time had your brother come down?

Ashfield. Yes; just at that period, while Hyde and I was scuffling.

Q. I suppose that scuffle made some noise?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did your brother come down before or after Lee struck you?

Ashfield. After Lee struck me: the knife dropped upon the ground.

Q. Was it by a blow?

Ashfield. I believe it was.

Q. They carried you and your brother James to the back yard?

Ashfield. Yes; and put us out in the yard. I got over the rails and got into the house again, unbolted the door, and then let James in. I ran up stairs; there was a man upon the first landing with a stick, he swore he would knock me down if I offered to go up stairs: he did knock me down; the man was dressed in black; my brother James came at the same time; while he struck at him, I got past. I went to the third landing place, that is the first that is upon the second pair of stairs, a slight of stairs below my master's bed chamber.

Q. When you came there what did you observe?

Ashfield. A parcel of men putting their shoulders to the door; at the same time I heard a voice from below, from the parlour, why do not you begin to break? Hyde was up stairs along with all the rest of the men; he comes down stairs, and knocks me down. I heard my master say keep off, for I will defend myself; I am armed, you had better keep off, for I will defend myself.

Q. Upon your oath was your master's chamber door quite shut at that time or not?

Ashfield. It was quite shut.

Q. You swear that positively?

Ashfield. Yes, I am sure.

Q. Then could you, where you was, see whether the door was upon the jar, open or not?

Ashfield. It was not at all open.

Q. By the voice of your master you could be able also to know whether the door was open?

Ashfield. Yes; and it was not.

Q. Did they talk about breaking open the door?

Ashfield. They swore that they were armed as well as him, and they would have him; upon that instant, I heard a pistol fired.

Q. Did you hear them say any thing about breaking doors?

Ashfield. No.

Q. When that pistol was fired, where was you?

Ashfield. Upon the landing.

Q. Was the door within view of you at that time?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Could you see the door when you heard the pistol fired?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Was the door quite fast then or open?

Ashfield. Quite fast.

Q. Was it possible for that man to have his knee in, and you not see him where you stood?

Ashfield. No, it was impossible; Hyde ducked down his head, and said, d - n him, never mind his pistols, and immediately they run up and pushed at the door: about two minutes afterwards, I heard a great scuffling and hollowing, and then before the door was opened another pistol was fired.

Q. Did the door open immediately upon him?

Ashfield. About a minute; they pushed the box of the lock off, they wrenched it so that the lock could have no power.

Q. Does it appear by the box of the lock, that it must have been forced open?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. How soon was it after when you saw the lock?

Ashfield. Ten minutes after.

Q. Who saw the lock besides yourself?

Ashfield. My brother.

Q. Any body else?

Ashfield. Yes, Mr. and Mrs. Mayo, I believe, saw it.

Q. Did Mrs. Mayo see it?

Ashfield. Yes, she did.

Q. To Mrs. Mayo. When did you see the lock?

Mayo. I did not go up that day.

Q. When did Mr. Merrick and Mr. Vickers see it?

Ashfield. About two days after, Mr. Vickers came for some things; Mr. Vickers prevailed upon her to let me go up stairs; we went up two pair of stairs, where looking about the things as we were coming away, we saw Mrs. Mayo with a double barrel pistol in her hand.

Q. Had you been in the house from the

time they took your master away, till Mr. Vickers came?

Ashfield. Once.

Q. Was there a bolt to the door?

Ashfield. None.

Q. When you saw it so wrenched, was the bolt of the lock, which the key turns, shot as if it had been locked with the key?

Ashfield. It was on the outside of the lock as if it was locked.

Cross Examination.

Q. Your master and you had been walking in Kensington Gardens.

Ashfield. Yes; he leaned upon me.

Q. It is your master's custom to go to Northumberland-street?

Ashfield. Yes; he never has a hackney-coach come to the door.

Q. How came you to bring that knife down in your hand?

Ashfield. I was cutting bread and butter with it.

Q. You say you saw ten or eleven people, describe them?

Ashfield.   John Hyde ,   Thomas Hyde , one Feltus, &c. (he described the five that were in court.)

Q. Who were the other four?

Ashfield. Working sort of people.

Q. They desired you to drop the knife?

Ashfield. No; my brother desired me to drop it.

Q. Did not you threaten to stick or stab somebody?

Ashfield. No.

Q. You saw them come out of the parlour, which parlour?

Ashfield. The first parlour.

Q. How long had Hyde been scuffling with you?

Ashfield. Instantly.

Q. How near was you brother?

Ashfield. Upon the same landing place.

Q. Had he any knife?

Ashfield. None.

Q. Who prevented you going up stairs?

Ashfield. Reeves.

Q. Did your brother try to get up?

Ashfield. Yes, but he was a little after me.

Q. This was at the foot of the stairs?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. How many people were there?

Ashfield. Only that one.

Q. Where were the rest of the people?

Ashfield. Gone up stairs, I believe.

Q. Did your brother attempt to get up?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. You are sure you got up?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. The time you was first upon the stairs with the knife in your hand they turned you both into the yard, and then you came back round through the kitchen?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. How long might it be from the time you was put off the stairs into the yard, till the time you returned again to the stairs?

Ashfield. About three minutes.

Q. Before you was turned into the yard, did you see any body go up stairs?

Ashfield. Yes, all but these two went up stairs; some went up then and some went up afterwards.

Q. How many might go up stairs before you was turned into the yard?

Ashfield. About three.

Q. How many were left at the bottom of the stairs?

Ashfield. About five.

Q. How long might you be contending with those that refused to let you get up?

Ashfield. About two seconds.

Q. What was the first thing you saw?

Ashfield. A great number of men pushing with their shoulders against the door.

Q. How many men?

Ashfield. There might be seven.

Q. The landing place, and the door must be pretty full?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. You stood at the landing place below?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Can you take upon you to swear whether the door was open or shut at that time?

Ashfield. It was shut.

Q. But there were six or seven people before the door, how could you see the door?

Ashfield. I could see over their heads.

Q. How high is the door?

Ashfield. It may be about ten feet.

Q. Is it as high as common parlour doors are?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Will you take upon you to say that the door was shut at that time?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did you hear any expressions before the pistols were fired?

Ashfield. Yes; I heard them say never mind his pistols, never mind his pistols.

Q. How long was it before the second pistol was fired off?

Ashfield. About two minutes.

Q. Where was you when the first pistol was fired off?

Ashfield. Upon the third landing; I went to remove, and Hyde was coming running down, and pushed me down.

Q. Did he come running down before or after the second pistol was fired?

Ashfield. Before.

Q. How far did he push you down?

Ashfield. I might go about half a dozen steps; I came up to the landing again, and another pistol was fired off; Hyde ducked down his head, and said d - n him, never mind his pistols.

Q. When was the expression made use of don't mind his pistols?

Ashfield. After the second pistol; I was on the second landing place when the second pistol was fired; Feltus was at the door.

Q. Was the door open or shut at the time the second pistol was fired?

Ashfield. It was shut.

Q. Are you sure?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Tell us how the ball came into the door post?

Ashfield. I cannot tell that.

Q. Whether the bullet of the second pistol made any mark in the door?

Ashfield. No, it did not; it did not touch the door, but went into the post.

Q. You have spoke of the bolt of the lock, do you mean the bolt that turns with the key?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. What sort of a lock was it?

Ashfield. A brass lock put on the inside, not laid into the door; there is only the bolt that turns with the key, and a little bolt that turns round with the knob.

Q. The bolt was out, which did you mean?

Ashfield. Both the bolt that turns with the hand, and the bolt that turns with the key; it was about ten minutes after my brother ran by me into the room.

Q. How was the door opened?

Ashfield. By main force; they forced the box of the lock.

Q. Whether at the time you and your brother went up to look at the lock Mr. and Mrs. Mayo were within?

Ashfield. No.

Counsel for the prisoner. Where you stood at the time, if the door had been but a little open, that a man's foot or knee might be in, would there not have been light enough from the top of the door to discern it?

Ashfield. Yes.

Court. Are you sure your master sent you out after the man had tapped at the door to see who it was, and and what was the matter?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did you go down?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Are you positive you went and told your master then that Lee and the other men were there?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Before you came down the second time did you go into the room to tell him or tell him at the door?

Ashfield. I told him at the door.

  James Ashfield sworn.

Ashfield. I live with General   Gansel .

Q. Do you remember whether on the 26th of August the prisoner went out?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. What time did he come back?

Ashfield. About one o'clock; my brother and I were in the room with him.

Q. Did you hear any thing like the rap of knuckles at the door?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Was the door locked?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Is it usual to keep the door locked?

Ashfield. Yes; at the rapping of knuckles my brother asked who was there; the person asked whether Mr. Mayo was there; my brother told him no, he was below stairs; when he was gone down a little way, the General told my brother to go and see who it was, and what he wanted; after he had been a little way down he came up again, and told the General who they were; he said there were a great number of people; he went down again; we heard a noise; and the General bid me go and see what was the matter.

Q. Did he lock the door on your brother's going out?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. You went out afterwards?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. When you went out was the door locked after you?

Ashfield. Yes, I stopped to hear it locked; the General bid me take notice that he locked it. I went down and saw my brother and the men struggling, and one of the men laid hold of him and tossed him down; as soon as I came down they turned him down, and when they saw me come they did the same to me; one of them with a great stick knocked my brother down, and another man hit me on the right arm; in the mean time my brother got up, and then they shut us in the yard.

Q. Did you see any thing of a person with a pistol?

Ashfield. Yes,   John Hyde ; he had it in his hand, and took it up with him.

Q. Did you see any thing more till you was turned into the yard?

Ashfield. Only knocking us about as much as they could.

Q. How long did you stay in the yard?

Ashfield. Till my brother got down into the area, and opened the door and let me in, and then he went up stairs; he got up with several knocks; I attempted to go after him, but some men at the bottom would not let me. I heard a pistol go off; there were a great many people on the stairs; I could not get up; I heard another pistol go off. As soon as the General was gone I went up; the lock was almost wrenched off.

Q. Was it in good condition when the General let you out?

Ashfield. Yes, it was.

Q. How long was it after the General was gone before you saw it?

Ashfield. Two or three minutes.

Cross Examination.

Q. When you was turned down stairs, who pushed you into the yard?

Ashfield. Two or three of them.

Q. Who bolted you in the yard?

Ashfield. I do not know whether it was any of the people that are here.

Q. How long was you in the yard before you got in again?

Ashfield. Two or three minutes.

Q. When the yard door was unbolted, did you hear the report of a pistol?

Ashfield. Yes; my brother was got up stairs then.

Q. When you came to the stair-case how many men did you see?

Ashfield. About two at the foot of the stair, all the rest were gone up.

Q. Did you see any struggle between them and your brother?

Ashfield. No, not at that time, he was past them.

Q. Did you easily get up yourself?

Ashfield. Yes; that was after they were all gone up. As I was running up the last pistol went off.

Q. You did not follow your master out of the house when they took him out did you?

Ashfield. Yes; I went to the top of the street there I left him.

Q. When you came back what part of the family did you find below stairs?

Ashfield. Mrs. Mayo, the woman of the house, and a man of her acquaintance.

Q. Did your brother go with you to the top of the stairs?

Ashfield. I went up stairs first.

Q. Did your brother follow you?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. How long was he after you?

Ashfield. About a quarter of an hour.

Q. Did you call for him to come up, or did he come up of his own accord?

Ashfield. Of his own accord.

Q. What did you go up for?

Ashfield. To see if every thing was safe.

Q. When the General bid you go down, he bid you stay and hear that he locked the door, was there any reason for it?

Ashfield. No.

Q. You did stay?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did you tell him you heard it locked before you went?

Ashfield. No.

Q. You heard it looked, and then you went down?

Ashfield. Yes.

Court. Your master generally kept his door locked?

Ashfield. Yes, he did.

Q. Then he heard the person tap at the door?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did he speak, or your brother?

Ashfield. My brother.

Q. On being told that was not Mr. Mayo's room, did the man go down stairs?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. What did he bid your brother do then?

Ashfield. Go and see who it was.

Q. Did your brother come and tell him?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. What did he tell him?

Ashfield. That a parcel of fellows were below with sticks.

Q. Then he went down again?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Then your master hearing a noise sent you to see what they were doing?

Ashfield. Yes.

  Thomas Vickers sworn.

Q. The day this fray happened, had you seen General   Gansel any where?

Vickers. Yes, at Kensington-gardens.

Q. Was you at the house in Craven-street any time that day, or the day after?

Vickers. I was there the same day; I went up stairs.

Q. Did you go up into the General's bed room?

Vickers. No, I did not.

Q. Any time after that did you go into the General's bed room?

Vickers. The next day but one I did; I saw a hole in the door.

Q. Did you observe any thing about the lock?

Vickers. No.

Q. Did you observe the part where the ball had passed through the hole of the door, could you observe what position it was in when the ball went through?

Vickers. It must be shut I suppose; if it had been open it was impossible it could have gone in that direction; it went in a direction to the right, and mounted; as I looked through the hole with the door shut, it answered to the opposite mark in the wall; but opening it ever so little an inch or two, it put it in a different direction that I could not see the hole.

Q. Did you see any other mark in the door?

Vickers. I saw the hole in the post, the side of the door.

Cross Examination.

Q. You think the door must be fastened because the ball took a direction to the right?

Vickers. Because the ball went to the right and mounted.

Q. Suppose the door had been five or six inches open, why might it not have gone in the same direction?

Vickers. It did not appear that it could to me.

Q. When the door is shut you can see the bullet hole in the wall?

Vickers. Yes.

Q. How far distant was the hole in the door from the hinges?

Vickers. To the best of my recollection, it might be half a yard.

Counsel for the prisoner. Suppose the door to be twelve inches, how far might the hole be from the hinges?

Vickers. About one third of it.

Q. Divide it in half where must it be?

Vickers. About the middle of the second pannel next the hinge.

- Sanderson sworn.

Q. Have you seen the door, the door case, and the box of the lock?

Sanderson. Yes.

Q. In what condition was the box of the lock when you saw it?

Sanderson. When the door is locked and bolted, the box is so wrenched, that the least force would push it open; the screws are drawn out of the box.

Q. With respect to the pannel, where is that hole made?

Sanderson. It is rather more than half-way to the hinge.

Q. Did you see the hole in the passage?

Sanderson. Yes.

Q. Can you form a judgement whether the door was open or shut when the ball went through?

Sanderson. I tried it in two or three positions.

Q. Suppose the door open so much as a man might put his foot or knee between the door and the post, could the ball possibly have taken that direction?

Sanderson. I do not think it possible; I tried it at one and two inches, but could not then see the opposite mark; the other ball went into the post of the door at the height of four feet nine inches; the pistol must be near the door, and the door shut, when the second pistol went off; because the reflection of the gun-powder made a circle round, part on the door, and part on the case, where the ball went in.

Q. If the pistol was levelled at the head of a man, would it have gone through that part of the door, could it have gone so low?

Sanderson. It was impossible; it could not have hit him, it is impossible.

Cross Examination.

Q. What are you by business?

Sanderson. An upholsterer and auctioneer.

Q. How did you learn the direction of guns and pistols?

Sanderson. From my ideas.

Q. When you saw it last Thursday, did you measure how far this hole on the post of the door was from the ground?

Sanderson. Yes, it is four foot nine inches.

Q. Whether a ball, when it is fired from a gun or pistol, carries the gun-powder to the place where the hall is lodged?

Court. That depends upon the distance.

Q. Then the gun-powder will be on the place nearest the pistol?

Sanderson. Yes.

Q. How does the gun-powder being on the door prove the door was shut?

Sanderson. According to my imagination, it is impossible the ball should leave that circle on the door and post, if the door was open; I was employed to remove the General's pictures.

Q. from the counsel for the prisoner. Pray, sir, supposing a ball is discharged out of a pistol or gun, does it not always go in a straight direction, suppose it was held the least pointing down, then the ball would have gone all the way downwards?

Sanderson. Yes, certainly.

Q. to Mrs. Mayo. When Mr. Sanderson came, did he ask whether the lock was in the same position before the accident?

Mayo. Yes; I said I could not tell; nothing has been done to the lock since; I always went up with the men.

  Richard Jones sworn.

I have seen the room.

Q. What is the situation of the lock?

Jones. It is very clear the door has been forced open, the box or receiver of the bolt most clearly has been forced open.

Q. Did you take notice of the direction of the pistol ball?

Jones. The direction was towards the garret.

Q. In what proportion did it rise in its direction from the hole at the door, suppose a level from the hole of the door is it much higher?

Jones. Yes, a great deal higher.

Q. Are you able to form a judgment of that hole, whether it could have formed that direction, supposing the door to be partly open?

Jones. From my observation, I should think the door was shut when the pistol was fired; the hole is right through the door.

Q. Did you observe the hole in the door case that was made by the pistol?

Jones. Yes.

Q. Does that go in plump, if I may so say, in a straight line, or does it go slanting from the door?

Jones. I did not take much notice.

Q. Does the ball form a right line or slant?

Jones. It seems to be gone clear into it.

Q. Did you observe the mark of any gunpowder upon the door itself?

Jones. No; I did not make an observation.

  William Brown sworn.

I examined the lock upon General Gansel's lodging; it appears to have been forced, the screws are forced out of the wood.

Q. When did you see it?

Brown. On Saturday last: the first observation that I made was, upon the ball going through the pannel of the door, I put my eye to it; it carried it straight upon a line; then I opened the door; it would not go to the same direction; then I shut it close, and it carried it to the same direction; I tried it three times, I was so particular.

Q. With regard to the other hole?

Brown. I observed the shot, I saw the door burnt with the powder, I went to put my finger to it, said Mrs. Mayo, I beg you will not touch it, but let every thing stand as it is.

Q. from the Jury. What profession are you of?

Brown. A peruke-maker.

  Alexander Read sworn.

Read. I live in Smithfield.

Q. Have you been at General Gansel's house?

Read. Yes.

Q. Did you take notice of the door of the two pair of stairs chamber?

Read. The lock staple was tore off, the screws were tore loose from the wainscot, the box was on but loose, in such a manner as that the lock could be sprung when locked; I tried it, it opened easily with the knee on the outside.

Q. When did you do that?

Read. Last Saturday; the hole went through, as you are the inside of the room, the right-hand pannel; the direction went up the wainscot of the stair case, and the mark where it lodged is in the landing place.

Q. In what position must the door be when the bail went through?

Read. I think it could not be open, at least a very little way.

Q. How much could it be open?

Read. A very few inches.

Q. Three inches?

Read. I should think not.

Q. When the door was shut, your eye carried you to that place?

Read. Yes.

Q. If the door had been open ten inches, do you think if the ball had gone through in the same direction, it could have gone where it did?

Read. No, I think it impossible; I apprehend the General knew better how to kill a man than fire at him through a door post; it has gone through two cases, and shivered the wood.

Q. If the General had been behind the door, and the door open, could he have done it?

Read. No.

Cross Examination.

Q. What are you?

Read. A broker.

Q. Suppose a ball is shot through a door will it take the same direction as if it had met with no obstruction after the shooting?

Read. No.

Q. Supposing a ball when shot off, meeting with no interruption, would take a strait direction, would not that ball by meeting with any piece of wood it was to pass through, vary the direction of the ball?

Read. It might.

Q. Would not the varying of the ball he merely accidental, would not a great deal depend upon the situation of the party?

Read. That is according to the piece.

Counsel for the Prisoner. Suppose two holes made by any instrument through two pieces of wood; if I can see looking through one hole, as I could through a telescope, the opposite hole to it, I must be sure what is the direction.

Ashfield sworn.

Ashfield. The box appeared to me to be strained; the screws were quite loose, and seemed to have been drawn.

Q. Did it appear to be done by force?

Ashfield. Yes.

Q. Did you look through the door to see the direction the ball had taken?

Ashfield. Yes; I think the door must certainly be shut.

Q. With respect to the hole of the door case, did you observe that?

Ashfield. I observed the post where the ball was in was burnt, and the door was marked the same as the post.

Q. Whether that ball could have been fired when the door was open, with that mark upon the door?

Ashfield. It must have been when the door was shut.

Cross Examination.

Q. What are you?

Ashfield. A gentleman.

Q. When did you make this observation?

Ashfield. Yesterday about five o'clock.

Q. You are not an Attorney?

Ashfield. No.

Q. Who desired you to make the observation?

Ashfield. I did it from curiosity.

Q. Are you the father of the two young men?

Ashfield. Yes.

Acquitted .

The General then said, he was so confident of the good ground his cause stood upon, that he had not called more than two officers of rank, to attend the trial, and vouch to his character, and particularly to his humanity, if necessary: if more had been thought proper, he believed he could have called as many as any gentleman in the army.

There were two other indictments against him; one for shooting at   Thomas Hyde , the other, for shooting at   Henry Feltus ; he was arraigned upon these, but the Counsel for the prosecution said, as the General was acquitted upon the merits, that they should wave the two other indictments.

He was immediately acquitted on the second and third indictment.