John Pagon.
3rd September 1746
Reference Numbert17460903-23
VerdictsGuilty; Guilty

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305 John Pagon , otherwise Pidgeon , was indicted for privately stealing, on the 3d of August, a Silver Watch, a Seal set in Silver, and a Watch Key , the Goods of Alexander Denker .

Q. (to Alexander Denker .) What have you to say against the Prisoner at the Bar.

Denker. In the Place call'd Spring-Garden Gate I lost a Silver Watch.

Q. When was that?

Denker. Between Eight and Nine o'clock on Sunday Night.

Q. Was there any Thing to the Watch?

Denker. A Seal set in Silver and a Key.

Q. Whose Watch was it?

Denker. It was my own.

Q. How came you to lose it?

Denker. When I came into the Passage there was a pretty great Crowd, and I was in a manner pinnion'd up.

Q. When did you look upon your Watch before?

Denker. Just before I put my Hand upon my Fob and saw the String of my Watch.

Q. How long after did you miss it?

Denker. In less than eight Minutes time; that Woman ( Eleanor Morral ) declar'd upon her Oath she saw that Man (the Prisoner) take it out of my Pocket.

Q. Do you remember seeing the Prisoner in the Crowd?

Denker. I remember seeing a Man of his Size; but I will not swear that he is the same Person.

Q. What Justice was you before.

Denker Justice De Veil.

Q. When was it that you was before Sir Thomas?

Denker. On Monday, at Eleven o'clock, I was last before Sir Thomas De Veil ; I went also to the Gatehouse by Sir Thomas's Direction.

Q. When.

Denker. It was on Friday, when the Advertisement was put out that any Person who had lost a Watch might there see the Prisoner.

Court. Then you went to the Gatehouse ?

Denker. Yes, I went to the Gatehouse, to the Woman that saw the Prisoner take the Watch out of my Pocket; when I got there I ask'd for the Prisoner that had been committed by Sir Thomas De Veil ; so Eleanor Morral came and sat by me; she said that one Pidgeon, who was in Clerkenwell Bridewell was the Man that took the Watch out of my Pocket.

Q. (to the Prisoner.) Will you ask this Witness any Questions?

Prisoner. My Lord, ask him if on Friday last in the Evening he did not come to Clerkenwell.

Denker. I was there, my Lord, and I ask'd which was the Pickpocket that Sir Thomas had committed; Jones told me that he (the Prisoner) was the Man.

Prisoner. This Witness told me that he was the Person who had lost his Watch, and that if I would give it him again no more should come of it. My Lord, he said it was that Day se'nnight when he lost it.

Q. (to Denker.) Did you say it was the Friday before that you lost the Watch?

Denker. I said the 3d Day of August.

Court. Then you did not say it was the Friday before?

Denker. I did not, upon my Oath.

Q. (to Eleanor Morral .) What have you to say against the Prisoner at the Bar ? Do you know him ?

Morral. I have known him for five Months.

Q. What do you know of him ?

Morral. I know him to be a noted Thief and a Pickpocket.

Q. What have you to say to the particular Fact for which he is indicted ?

Morral. I saw him rob the Man that was here but now (Denker) of his Watch.

Q. When was it that you saw the Prisoner take the Watch from Mr. Denker?

Morral. It was last Sunday was a Month; he took it from him in the Passage to St. James's-Park, call'd Spring-Garden Passage; and he had seven more that Night: He gave it to his Wife, and she gave it to me.

Q. Upon what Occasion was you there?

Morral. I was a Servant to this Man and his Wife; I went a thieving as well as himself.

Q. Who was there besides ?

Morral. One Thomas Case and his Wife.

Q. Well, what became of it afterwards?

Morral. They took it from me at the King's Arms Tavern on Ludgate-Hill; that is the House they used to go to; the Man that keeps the House has but one Eye.

Q. Who went to the King's Arms Tavern ?

Morral. This Man and his Wife.

Court. Then you saw the Prisoner at the Bar take the Watch?

Morral. Yes.

Q. What Watch was it?

Morral. A Silver Watch with an all green Riband, a Silver Seal and a Key to it; and two more that had no Seals to them, which I had in my Custody.

Q. When did you make this Discovery?

Morral. On Thursday se'nnight.

Q. How came you to make it?

Morral. I went of my own Accord before Sir Thomas De Veil .

Q. After you had made the Discovery what became of you then?

Morral. Sir Thomas order'd me to be sent to the Gatehouse for an Evidence.

Council for the Prisoner. I would desire to know how she came to be so particular with regard to this Watch ?

Morral. Because I had three Watches in my Custody the same Night.

Council. Pray how came you to make this Discovery at all; or how came you not to do it sooner? had you any Quarrel with the Prisoner?

Morral. I did not abuse to go any longer with the Clan.

Council. How long have you been in the Clan ?

Morral. Three Months, going on sour.

Council. I with you had left them sooner. I would ask you how you came to make it at that particular Time?

Morral. I did not care to go on in that Course of Lase any longer.

Council. How came you to be so particular as to Denker? When he came to the Gatehouse, did he speak to you first, or you to him ?

Morral. I spoke to him first.

Q. (to - Denker) You lost a Watch, What was to it?

Denker. A green Ribband.

Q. Was it a new one ?

Denker. It was an old one, very much soil'd.

Q. Pray, when you went to the Gatehouse, did the Woman speak to you first, or you to the Woman ?

Denker. The Woman spoke to me first.

Q. (to the Prisoner) What have you to say in your Defence ?

Prisoner. This Woman I had no Acquaintance with; she was an Acquaintance of my Wife's. I am lately come from Lisbon. I married my Wife in the Commons of England in April last; she and this Woman sell our; she stole her Hoop-petticoat, and when she found her she bear her. Please you, my Lord, she also said, before Sir Thomas De Veil , that it was a Gold Watch.

Morral. I did not say any such Thing.

Sir Thomas De Veil 's Clerk being present reply'd to the Prisoner.] Mr. Pagon, this was nor upon that Aft; that is a Thing that happen'd since.

Q. ( to Mary Copeland ) What have you to say of the Prisoner ?

Copeland. I work'd for the Prisoner's Wife.

Q. Do you know of any Quarrel between this Woman and the Prisoner's Wife?

Copeland. There has been no Quarrel as I know of.

Smith. The Evidence said she was a Servant of the Prisoner's.

Copeland. I have work'd these four Months for the Prisoner's Wife, and I know of no Servant that they keep; this Woman used to go backwards and

forwards; I heard of her going away with a Petticoat.

Q. (to Edward Johnson ) What are you?

Johnson. I belong to the Maryland Brig.

Q. Are you in the Pay of that Ship now?

Johnson. Yes.

Q. What do you know of the Prisoner at the Bar?

Johnson. I knew him at Lisbon; he was the Master of the St. Philip; I saw the Prisoner there on Shore with English and Dutch Merchants.

Q. How long was this ago?

Johnson. I believe 'tis better than four Months ago, and believe that he is now entitled to a pretty deal of Prize-Money: He always bore the Character of an honest Fellow.

Q. How long did you know him at Lisbon ?

Johnson. I knew him about six Weeks there.

Q. (to Anne Field ) What is your Profession?

Field. I pick and work Hair. The Prisoner has lately come from Sea; and when he courted and married this Woman he said, when he took his Money he would make her a happy Woman; I never saw any Thing amiss in his Behaviour. He bespoke a Grizzle Wag of my Husband, and he honestly paid for it.

Q. Have you known any thing of him within these two Months ?

Field. I have a Mantua-maker lodges in my House, and she made two Gowns for his Wife.

Q. Is this the Mantua-maker, Mary Copeland ?

Field. Yes, she is the Mantua-maker.

Q. Do you know this Woman, ( Eleanor Morral ?)

Field. I have seen this Woman come to Mr. Pagon and his Wife several Times.

Anne White . I was a Servant to the Prisoner before he went to Sea, I have known little or nothing of him since.

Guilty .

John Pagon , otherwise Pidgeon, was a second Time indicted for stealing a Watch , the Property of John Overy .

Q. (to John Overy .) What have you to say against the Prisoner at the Bar?

Overy. I was coming thro' St. James's-Park , and my little Girl with me; between Spring-Gardens and the Door somebody gave me a Blow over my Breast, then took my Girl out of my Hand, then I lost my Watch.

Q. When was this?

Overy. Last Sunday was a Month, about Eight o'Clock at Night.

Q. What was the Watch?

Overy. A Silver one.

Q. When did you see or feel your Watch last before you lost it?

Overy. I know I lost it in that Place.

Q. When did you feel for your Watch before ? Can't you tell whether you look'd upon you Watch an Hour before, or what Time ?

Overy. I had it I know a Quarter of an Hour before.

Q. Had you been in any Crowd before ?

Overy. No, Sir.

Q. Who took it from you, do you know?

Overy. No, my Lord.

Q. (to the Prisoner.) Can you ask this Witness any Question?

Prisoner. I would willingly be inform'd who could put him upon this villainous Prosecution?

Q. (to Eleanor Morral .) What have you to say against the Prisoner at the Bar?

Morral. My Lord, coming thro' the Park I saw him take this Watch from the old Man, and the Child out of his Hand.

Q. When was this?

Morral. Last Sunday was a Month, my Lord; I saw him take the Watch; he gave him a Punch, and then took the Watch; the Child cry'd out, and said, Daddy; and I said, here's your Daddy.

Q. Did you see him take it away?

Morral. Yes, at the same time; and he gave it to his Wife, and she gave it to me. When the, Man came into the Gaol, I knew him at once; this is the Man, I don't know his Name.

Q. Upon his coming, did he speak to you first, or you to him?

Morral. I to him.

Q. Did you know him again?

Morral. Yes, my Lord, tho' he had different Clothes on.

Q. What did you say to him?

Morral. I ask'd him, whether he did not lose a Watch, an old-fashion'd Watch; he ask'd me how I came to know him; I said, I knew him by his little Girl; and tho' the Girl came to me in a Disguise Yesterday, yet I knew her; he had the Clothes he has on now, a Claret Colour.

Q. Did you ask him if he had a Child with him?

Morral. Ask himself, my Lord, whether I did not?

Court. But I now ask you.

Morral. Yes, my Lord. My Lord, there was not six Minutes 'till he had three Watches. I said the Child had a white Gown on then.

Q. What became of that Silver Watch?

Morral. What became of it! You put me to a hard Task to know what became of it; I gave it to Pagon's Wife again.

Q. Where did you go afterwards?

Morral. To the King's-Arms Tavern on Ludgate-Hill.

Q. Was this the same Night that Denker's Watch was taken ?

Morral. Yes, the same Night; there were seven Watches that same Night.

Q. Have you any thing more to say?

Morral. Nothing more.

Q. (to the Prisoner) Would you have any Question ask'd Eleanor Morral ?

Prisoner. 'Tis surprizing as she had so many Watches in her Care that she never kept none.

Q. (to John Overy .) Did you go to Sir Thomas De Veil to get Intelligence?

Overy. Yes, and he told me to go to Bridewell to speak with this Woman.

Q. When was it you went?

Overy. The Monday or Tuesday after I lost my Watch.

Q. When you went to Bridewell, who did you see there? Did you speak to that Woman first, or she to you?

Overy. She said she knew me directly.

Q. What Coat had you on when you went to this Woman in Bridewell?

Overy. A white Coat.

Q. What Coat had you on when you lost your Watch?

Overy. This Coat I have on now.

Q. What was it the Woman told you when you was in Bridewell?

Overy. She told me the Man gave me a Blow, &c.

Q. Did she say any thing to you when your Watch was taken from you of your having any Child with you, or did you mention it to her before?

Overy. No, she mention'd it to me first?

Q. (to the Prisoner.) Will you ask this Witness any Question?

Prisoner. I desire to know when that Woman was committed?

Q. (to Henry Walbank .) What are you?

Walbank. I am the Keeper of Clerkenwell Bridewell.

Prisoner. What I want to ask him is, what Time Eleanor Morral was committed to Bridewell?

Walbank. To the best of my Remembrance it was last Friday; she was sent first to the Gatehouse as an Evidence.

Q. (to the Prisoner.) What have you to say in your Defence?

Prisoner. My Lord, all that I have to say is, that she is a villainous Woman, and it is a malicious Prosecution.

Q. (to Mary Harris .) What is your Business?

Harris. I keep a Publick House, the King's-head in Holbourn.

Q. Do you know the Prisoner at the Bar?

Harris. I have seen the Prisoner; I have known him since May last.

Q. Have you been intimately acquainted with him? how often may you have seen him?

Harris. It may be twenty Times a Week he may have been in my House, and had a very good Character; the Sailors shew'd him a great deal of Respect. I don't know his Neighbourhood. When he came to my House, the Sailors, and so did the Gentlemen, used him with a great deal of Respect.

Q. (to William Griffiths .) What do know of the Prisoner? where do you live?

Griffiths. In Horton-Street, the Corner of New-Inn Passage.

Q. How long have you known the Prisoner?

Griffiths. I believe, about seven Years.

Q. Have you known him of late Years?

Griffiths. I have seen him several Times since April last.

Q. What has been his general Character?

Griffiths. I never heard any thing bad of it before this; I have been in his Company a great many Times.

Q. (to Richard Young .) Do you know the Prisoner?

Young. I know him, Sir; I live at home with my Father, who keeps a Pawnbroker's Shop; he has sent some Clothes to my Father to pawn, and came with the Person to take t hem away, and paid for them.

The Woman ( Eleanor Morral ) desir'd the Pawnbroker might be ask'd if the Prisoner ( John Pagon ) had brought no Watches there to pawn.

Guilty Death .

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