Old Bailey Proceedings, 3rd August 1880.
Reference Number: t18800803
Reference Number: f18800803


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,










On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1880, and following days,

Including certain cases committed to this Court under order in Council, pursuant to the Spring Assizes Act of 1879,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. SIR FRANCIS WYATT TRUSCOTT, Knt., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir HENRY HAWKINS , Knt., one of the Justices of the Exchequer Division of the High Court, of Justice; Sir BENJAMIN SAMUEL PHILLIPS , Knt., Sir THOMAS DAKIN , Knt., and Sir THOMAS SCAMBLER OWDEN, Knt., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; JOHN WHITTAKER ELLIS, Esq., SIMEON CHARLES HADLEY , Esq., ROBERT NICHOLAS FOWLER , Esq., M.P., snd REGINALD HANSON , Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir WILLIAM THOMAS CHARLEY , Q.C., D.C.L., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERY MALCOLM KERR. Esq., LL.D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer, and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Tuesday, August 3rd, 1880.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-464

464. HENRY LOCK (40) was charged on the Coroner's Inquisition only with the wilful murder of Mary Ann Lock.

MESSRS. POLAND and MONTAGU WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution, presenting the case at one of manslaughter only, the Grand Jury having ignored the bill for murder.

HENRY TAYLOR . I am an engine-driver, of 9, Edward Street, York Road, Lambeth—on 21st July about 9.20 p.m. I was at Hounslow coming along the main road to London, and saw the prisoner and a woman sitting by the roadside eating bread and butter, and wrangling—the prisoner said "You have cost me lots of money"or "cost me pounds, and I will do for you tonight"—he said that he came out of prison that morning—I walked on about 100 yards, and then heard the woman's voice call "Murder!"—I looked down the road, and saw the woman in a half-kneeling position—I returned, and saw the prisoner kick her on her side once just as I got there—I was then five or six yards off—it was then about 9.30—she was on the grass on the side of the road—she fell on one side, and did not speak, and never moved any more—I said "Don't you kick the woman again"—he said "What is that to do with you"—I said "It is to do with me"—a sergeant of the 18th Lancers came up, who sent a militiaman for a constable, and the prisoner sat down by the woman, and put her head on his knee—she never moved at all—two constables brought a stretcher in about an hour and a half, and took the body away after a doctor had seen it—there were two doctors—they said that she was dead—the prisoner had been drinking—it was not exactly a violent kick, but it was rather hard; I should not have liked it; you could kick anybody harder.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You picked her up and shook her several times.

THOMAS MARSKELL . I am a private in the 6th Middlesex Militia—on 21st July we were encamped at Hounslow Heath—I left the Crown and Sceptre with a comrade about 8.20, and when we were on the Staines Road we saw the prisoner and his wife jangling—the prisoner had a knife in his

hand, and he said with an oath that he would stick it into her, and he said "Is it the soldiers you want?" using bad language, and when we got about six paces from him he said "I will chuck this at your head," and the woman put her hand to her head and halloaed out—we went to a public-house, and stopped there a quarter of an hour, and saw a corporal and two policemen—we went after them, and when we got there the prisoner had got his wife in his arms shaking her—her age was about 40—I cannot tell whether she was sober.

Cross-examined. She did not chuck a knife at you to my knowledge.

GEORGE MORRIS . I am a private in the Militia—I was with Marskell, and heard the prisoner and deceased jangling together—he said "Is it the soldiers you want?"—he had a knife in his hand, and said to her "I will stick this bleeding knife into you"—when we got a little distance we heard her halloa out "Oh!" and we turned round, and I saw her with her two hands up to her face, standing by herself, and she dropped down—I said to Marskell "It is man and wife, it is not our place to interfere," and we went to a public-house and had a pint of beer—we then went back and saw one of our comrades go up with a policeman—we saw the woman on the ground—the prisoner picked her up and shook her in his arms.

THOMAS GURR (Policeman J 436). On the night of 21st July about 8.45 I was called to the Light Horse, Staines Road, Hounslow, and found a woman there drunk and disorderly, whom I know now as the deceased—I at last turned her out of the house, and asked the prisoner to take her away as I understood he was her husband—he was not the worse for drink—I asked him if it was his wife—he said "Yes, and my name is Henry Lock; we live at Halliford"—they left together in the direction of Bedfont—on the same night, about 10.10, I received information, went to Dockwell Lane, half a mile from the public-house, and saw the woman lying down with her head resting on the prisoner's legs—I asked him what was the matter—he said "Oh, she is drunk again"—I asked him if he could get her away—he said that he would try—I did not see her move—I found she was perfectly helpless—I did not know that she was dead—she smelt very strongly of drink, and I sent for a stretcher, which came about 11.20, and she was carried on it to the Huzzar beershop—while the people had gone for the stretcher Taylor told me in the prisoner's hearing that at 9.30 he had seen him kick her. in the side or the stomach—the prisoner said nothing then—I struck a lucifer, examined the woman, and found she did not move—the prisoner said "If she dies, and I think she is a going, I shall say she died from heart disease, for she told mo a fortnight ago when she went she should go all in a moment; but she is drunk, she has been drinking run all day; she will be all right when she has had her sleep out, she often lays like that for four or five hours"—before the stretcher came, Dr. Evans came and reported that she was dead—the prisoner is a dealer, gathering rags and bones—I saw this knife on the ground. (The blade of a table knife.)

Cross-examined. There were not a lot of soldiers round your wife—three prostitutes came up in front of the stretcher.

HENRY ROCK . I am a corporal of the 2nd battalion of the 7th Royal Fusiliers—on 21st July we were stationed at Hounslow, and between 7.30 and 8 o'clock I was at the Bell public-house and saw the deceased there drunk—the prisoner came in with a bag on his shoulder, which he dropped

opposite the public-house, went up to the deceased, and said "You b—old cow, this is where you are"—he was under the influence of drink—he tried to get her away from the public-house, but she would not go, and he then went into the public-house but did not ask her to come—he came out, went up to her again, and gave her a slap back-handed on the face, and said "Come on"—she hesitated, and he drew up his leg with the intention of kicking her, but he did not—he then dragged her away and said "You mare, I will do for you"—that is all I saw of them.

DANIEL COLEY . The prisoner's wife was my sister—I went to Hounslow on 22nd July and saw her dead body—her age was 41.

EBENEZER RICHARD EVANS . I am a surgeon of Hounslow—I was called about 12.30 on this night and found the deceased by the side of the road—she had been dead about an hour—she was carried to a public-house, where I examined her, but found no marks of violence—I have since made a post-mortem examination and found a tumour on the liver—it was not a drunkard's liver—there was also disease of the lungs, heart, and blood-vessels—from the state in which I found the heart a kick would have a tendency to produce death—I think the immediate cause of death was syncope, a fatal fainting—any shock to the system would produce syncope, either physical violence or mental excitement, in the state in which she was, but she might have died suddenly at any time independent of any external cause—if she had been kicked and died immediately I should not expect to find a mark.

Prisoners Defence. I tried to do the best I could to get her away, but could not, as she was so beastly drunk. I never kicked her, but she has kicked me awfully, and I have had marks black and blue for eight or nine months. She chucked the knife at me in the road. I work very hard for my living.


THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, August 3rd, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-465

465. LOUIS LAMPHEIR** (24) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously having counterfeit coin in his possession with intent to utter it.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18800803-466

466. THOMAS LANGFORD (53) to unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-467

467. MICHAEL COLLINS** (48) to feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18800803-468

468. EMILY JAMES (17) to unlawfully uttering a medal resembling a sovereign.— Four Months' Imprisonment [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.]And

Reference Number: t18800803-469

469. FRANK HERBERT CROCKFORD (25) to forging and uttering a cheque for 83l. 9s. [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.]Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-470

470. THOMAS CLARK (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.


HARRIS SPURWAY . I am barman at the Plough, Museum Street, Oxford Street—on 30th June, a little after 3 p.m., I served the prisoner with a pint of ale—he tendered a half-crown—I gave him 2s. 4d. change—I examined the coin—he left the ale and went out—I gave the coin to Hamlyn, the constable—this is it—my house is about two minutes' walk from the Bull's Head.

ELLEN UNDERHILL . I am barmaid at the Bull's Head, Hyde Street, New Oxford Street—on 30th June, about 3 p.m., I served the prisoner with half an ounce of tobacco—he put down a bad florin—I showed it to the landlord—the prisoner took the tobacco, and when I turned round he had gone away without any change—he returned in about half an hour and called for another half-ounce of tobacco—I knew him—I held the tobacco in my hand and waited to see what he would give me—he put down another florin—I said "You are here again, are you?"—he ran away and was caught by a customer and brought back—these are the coins—I gave him into custody—he said some one had given it to him outside.

JOHN HAMLYN (Policeman E 162). I was called to the Bull's Head and took the prisoner—Underhill said in his presence that he had been there twice and passed bad coins—she gave me these coins—he said a man outside gave him one of them, he did not account for the other—Mr. Spurway gave me this other half-crown—I found nothing on the prisoner.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—these coins are bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent. I was sent by two men. I had been helping with a load of stones. I did not know they were bad. I was drunk.

ELLEN UNDERHILL (Re-examined). The prisoner was not tipsy or anything approaching it on either occasion.

JOHN HAMLYN (Re-examined). He was perfectly sober when I took him.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-471

471. THOMAS WHITE (33) , Unlawfully having in his possession counterfeit coin, with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and LLOYD Prosecuted; MR. H. AVORY Defended.

WILLIAM MILES (City Policeman 350). I was on duty in Smithfieid on 26th June, about 8.15 a.m.—the prisoner was loitering about, I following him through several streets into Long Lane, Smithfieid—he waited there some time, and then came back into Smithfieid and stopped some little time—I followed him through several streets—he was carrying a bundle—I stopped him in Charterhouse Street, and said "What have you in that bundle?" he said "What do you think I have got there? clothes belonging to me"—I said "Where have you brought them from?"—he said "Mr. Rees's, but I do not know where they live"—I said "Where did you lodge last night?"—he said "In this lodging-house," pointing to one close by—I said "I do not feel satisfied with your statement; I shall take you in custody, and charge you with unlawful possession of these things"—I took him to the station, where he was charged—I found upon him twenty counterfeit half-crowns wrapped separately in tissue-paper in two parcels, and in a black bag also 18s. 7d. in good money—after he was charged he said "I picked them up, and you know I did"—I did not know he picked them up.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate "I asked him how he came by them, and he said he picked them up just before he saw me"—he did say those two things—he did not say what he meant by "and you know I did"—he said "for you must have seen me pick them up"—he was not charged with the unlawful possession of the bundle—it contained socks and shirts.

Re-examined. I lost sight of him for two moments—he ran behind a cart—I did not see him stoop and pick up anything—the charge of unlawful possession was entered on the sheet.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad—it is customary for bad coins to be wrapped separately in tissue-paper, as these were, and when they are to be passed the black stuff is rubbed off.

WILLIAM MILES (Re-examined). It was before I spoke to him that he hid behind the cart.

By MR. AVORY. There is a large amount of traffic in Smithfield—the prisoner crossed the road, and I could not get between the carts—it is not all one straight road—we both turned corners, but I did not lose sight of him for more than a moment.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I picked up the coins in the back street, just before the officer asked me what I had in my bundle."


Reference Number: t18800803-472

472. JOHN WARFIELD (29) , Unlawfully uttering a counterfeit half-sovereign. The Jury, being unable to agree, were discharged without a verdict.

FOURTH COURT.—Tuesday, August 3rd, 1880.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-473

473. CHARLES WILLIAM WEEKS (21) PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a post letter, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster General— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment And

Reference Number: t18800803-474

474. WILLIAM TYLER (23) to forging and uttering a post-office order for the payment of 8l. 1s., with intent to defraud.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-475

475. GEORGE FLETCHER (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. LLOYD Prosecuted.

MARY ALLISON . I am the principal at the Mitre Tavern, Whitehorse Lace, Stepney—on the 30th June, about 11.30, the prisoner came to the bar for a pint of 6d. ale and put down a two-shilling piece—I gave him the change and put the coin on one side; next day I examined it and found it was bad; I cut it in two and threw it in the fire—on the 6th July the prisoner came again about 12 o'clock for half a pint of 6d. ale and gave me another 2s. piece; I looked at it and he said to me "If you do not like the look of it I will give you another"—I looked at him pointedly and put it into the tester and found it was bad—I said "You are the man who gave me one last week; I shall punish you if I can find a constable," and he flew out of the bar and ran up Whitehorse Lane as fast as ha could—I have not the slightest doubt as to his being the same person.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was not positive at the police-court whether you were there on the 30th June or the 1st July—I knew you the moment I looked at you—you were not intoxicated.

NATHAN LEE (Policeman H 17). I took the prisoner into custody—I found on him two good half-crowns and two good florins—he said he had no home and no address.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad florin.

The Prisoner in his Statement before the Magistrate and in his Defence said he was not in the public-house on the 30th June or the 1st July.


Reference Number: t18800803-476

476. WILLIAM ROBINSON (28) was indicted for a like offence.

MR. LLOYD Prosecuted.

JENNIE PARIS . I live at 74, Southampton Row, and keep a fancy repository—on the 2nd July I was at a fancy bazaar at the Freemasons' Tavern for a charity—the prisoner came to my stall and wanted to dip in the dipping tub, which contains prizes, and you put your hand in and dip on payment of a shilling—he gave me a coin representing a sovereign—I asked him what he gave me—I felt it was not a good one—I showed it to Mr. Fishley, and left the prisoner at the dipping tub waiting for the change—when I went back he was not there.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I asked you whether you had given me a shilling or a sovereign, and you said, "A sovereign, and I want the change."

WILLIAM HENRY FISHLEY . I acted as steward at the bazaar—the last witness handed me this coin (produced)—she pointed the prisoner out to me—I said, "Is this the gentleman who wants the change for the sovereign?"—she said "Yes"—I said, "If you will step with me I will give you the change"—I took him up to the other end of the room, and I sent a messenger by one of the committee—I was going away from the dipping tub when he said, "Never mind, I will have the sovereign back again, I have a shilling"—I said, "I will give you your change directly"—he went up to the other end of the room and took off his Ulster coat which he was wearing and his hat, and came down towards the door—I stopped him at the door as he was going out and said, "I beg your pardon, but you have not your change yet"—he said, "I am very deaf, I can't hear; I wish you would speak louder"—I shouted out and said, "Wait a moment, it will be here in a minute of two"—he stopped then with a commissionaire I had by the side of me—then one of the committeemen took a cab and went to Bow Street Police-station, and the prisoner waited until he came back with a constable, and he was given into custody.

Cross-examined. He said he had just taken the sovereign outside the door.

JAMES STEVENS . I am an auctioneer, of 38, High Street, Clapham, and was one of the managers of the bazaar—I examined the coin brought to me by Fishley, and sent for a policeman, and the prisoner was given into custody—at the police-station he said that he had had the coin for some long time—the next day he said he had received it from a betting man within ten minutes of his entering the building.

HENRY WOOLEY (Policeman E 33). I was sent for and took the prisoner into custody—he said he had the sovereign in his possession for some considerable time, and did not know how he became possessed of it, and he repeated that at the station—when I searched him he had 1s. good money and 2d. in bronze.

Before the Magistrate and in his Defence, the prisoner said the sovereign was given to him by a betting man ten minutes previous to his going into the bazaar.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad sovereign made in the usual way, electro-plated.


Reference Number: t18800803-477

477. MARY ANN KITSON (32) was indicted for a like offence.

MR. LLOYD Prosecuted.

SETH BULL . I keep the White Rose public-house, Castle Street, Leicester Square—at about 10.45 p.m. on 16th July the prisoner and her little boy

came in, and I served her with a glass of ale for herself and a small cake for the boy, amounting to 2 1/2 d., for which she gave me a bad half-crown—I told her it was bad, and gave her into custody—the boy ran away, and the prisoner offered me a good shilling while the man was gone for the constable—this is the coin (produced).

ROBERT MCADAM . I keep the Crown public-house in Rupert Street—about 8 o'clock p.m. on the 16th July the prisoner came in, and my barmaid, Frances Donally, brought me a bad coin and showed it to me—I gave it to her back, and she gave it to the prisoner—I went out and gave information to the police—I am quite certain that is the same woman.

FRINCES DONALLY . I was barmaid at the Crown at the time in question—the prisoner came in for a quartern of gin, and handed me a bad half-crown—I put it on the counter, and she said she would go and tell her; I did not know who she meant.

ARTHUR SMITH (Policeman E 24). I was called, and received the prisoner in custody with this half-crown (produced)—she said, "All right, I will go with you to the station," and she said, "Mr. Bull, you need not have done this for me; you know my husband, I did not know this was bad"—she was searched, and 2s. in silver and 2 1/2 d. in bronze were found on her.

EDWARD TOMPKINS . I keep the Wheatsheaf—on the 29th May last, about 10.30, the prisoner came to my house, and I saw my barmaid, Anne Martin, serve her—I do not know where she is—she handed me a bad shilling—I said to the prisoner "This is a wrong one;" she took a shilling from her left hand and placed it on the bar and said "Is this a wrong one too?"—that was a good one, and I gave her 10 1/2 d. change—I sent for Constable Death and gave him the coin—she was afterwards discharged.

JOSEPH DEATH (Policeman E R 48). I took the prisoner into custody on the 29th May, at the Wheatsheaf, and Tompkins said she was charged with uttering a bad shilling; this is the coin (produced)—on the way to the station she said she was a prostitute, and a gentleman gave it to her—she was discharged by the Magistrate on the 14th June.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad half-crown and a bad shilling.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday and Wednesday, August 3rd and 4th, 1880.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18800803-478

478. HERBERT CRAWCOUR (28) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. J. P. GRAIN and MR. TICKELL Prosecuted; SIR H. GIFFARD, Q.C., and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS Defended.

JOHN RICHARDS . I am an accountant, and live in the Isle of Wight—I am a trustee under Salterns bankruptcy—after my appointment on 22nd June, 1878, I went into possession of the Queen's Hotel, and held it for a month or six weeks—I was then served with an order in Crawcour v. Salter, under the Court of Chancery, and retired about 25th to 28th July, 1878—I took proceedings in the Bankruptcy Court, Ryde, and was subsequently served with a writ in the action; I was made a party—the action was tried before Vice-Chancellor Malins on 8th, 12th, 14th, and 17th April—I saw the defendant sworn by the Registrar—the bill of sale was put into his hand, and he said that it was signed by all the parties in his presence,

and that it was his signature appended to the affidavit in support of it—he was asked several times by Vice-Chancellor Malins whether he saw it signed, and whether he was the attesting witness, and he persisted in saying that he was—the result was that this decree (produced) was made.

Cross-examined. I was receiver before I was trustee—I was appointed on June 5th, 1878, the day they were adjudicated bankrupt—Mr. Urry, of Ventnor, the solicitor to the petitioning creditors, applied to me to become receiver—the whole of the unpaid-for furniture, value 1,500l. or 1,600l, was to be distributed among the general creditors; the Vice-Chancellor said that it was part of the assets—that is what the controversy was about—Messrs. Crawcour maintained their right to have their goods which had not been paid for—this prosecution was instituted by me, at the desire of all the creditors—I cannot tell you whether that is in writing, that is between them and their solicitor—no communication in writing came to me—Mr. Urry, of Ventnor, gave me verbal authority in my office, that I positively swear—I did not know till February last that the prisoner was alleged to have sworn that he saw the deed executed—I believe the Vice-Chancellor said that he considered me a very litigious person—I have not paid all the cost of these proceedings, but I have paid many hundreds of pounds, and in order to intimidate me an execution was put into my house by Hickson, Ward, and Co., the prime movers in this case—we wore going to prosecute for perjury before the case came on before Vice-Chancellor Malins, but under the advice of our solicitor, Mr. Urry, we did not—that was in February last—the question of whether the defendant was present or not was raised by the Vice-Chancellor, who said that he would have it tried by a jury if it was pertinent to the case—we decided to have the defendant prosecuted before it came before the Vice-Chancellor—I was not in Court when the Vice-Chancellor delivered judgment, I was in the Isle of Wight—I read it, but I did not know then, nor did I hear, that the Vice-Chancellor had come to the conclusion that the defendant was right—it did not occur to me that the Jury who tried him would not have the advantage of hearing him, that his mouth would be closed—it is the first case of the kind I have been in—I did not know that he might not be examined—I heard Mr. Salter examined before the County Court Judge at Ryde—I did not tell the Vice-Chancellor that I had an indemnity—I believe I named Ind, Coope, and Co., of Burton-upon-Trent, among the creditors, but I named twenty others—I knew that there was a bill of sale eight or nine days after I was appointed receiver.

Re-examined. When I discovered that this affidavit had been made I applied to amend my statement of defence—this (produced) is a copy of the amended statement.

JOHN JACKSON RHODES . I am a solicitor, of Newport, Isle of Wight—I acted as solicitor to Mr. Salter—on 7th January I went to the Queen's Hotel, Ventnor—I went into the coffee-room first—the two Salters were there, and the defendant, Mr. Cox, Mr. Campbell, and Mr. Norman—in the coffee-room I was introduced to Mr. Norman as Mr. Crawcour's solicitor—I asked him to let me look over the deed—I was nearly an hour examining it, and the servants came in to lay the cloth at luncheon-time, and we went into the other room—I did not notice any conversation in the coffee-room between anybody there and the defendant—we went into the other room, and I said to Salter, "If I were you I would not execute that deed; the terms are so stringent you will never be able to meet the requirements; you

may as well sign your death-warrant as that"—he said, "There is another deed which they can put in force against me"—I said, "Well, do as you like I advise you not to sign it," and after a good deal of talking the defendant went out of the room—Salter then signed it, and Norman said, "Let us have a glass of sherry together," and we met him in the passage, and he said, "Have you got the deed signed?" and I said "Yes." (MR. GRAIN here called for the original deed, which not being produced, he tendered a copy.) I signed a parchment deed in that room on 7th January, and saw the two Salters and Norman sign it—the defendant was not then in the room.

Cross-examined. I put the interview down in my diary—I never made any bill of costs, as I knew that it was of no use charging my client anything—I was telegraphed for to go to Ventnor, and he paid my railway fare, and I had a glass of sherry and a bit of bread and cheese—my attention was first called last November to the fact whether the defendant was present—my attention had not been called to the matter from June, 1878, to November, 1879, nor had I any note in writing of the transaction itself—I think Mr. Richards called on me about it in November, but I have no note of it—he named it to me when I called at his office in Newport, but I do not think we discussed whether the defendant was present or not—he asked me, I think, whether I remembered whether Mr. Crawcour was in the room at the time he was signing it, and I told him he was not—he did not tell me why he asked the question—I had not been consulted about any of the previous proceedings—I had heard nothing about it from January to November last year, except when Mr. Salter filed his petition in bankruptcy—I swore him to the affidavits as a commissioner authorised to administer oaths—mine is a pretty good memory—I read the deed for the purpose of advising my client upon it, but it is so long ago and I have had so many deeds since—I believe it was an indenture of lease which was granted to the Salters—I do not say it, but it recited the lease—it purported to convey by way of mortgage to Mr. Smith the indenture of lease, and Smith was to pay 1,200l. to discharge the encumbrances, so as to save it for Messrs. Salter, but they might come in in a few hours and take possession of everything—Mr. Salter mentioned that there was a former deed from Mr. Rule—I believe the arrangement was that Mr. Rule's 1,200l. should be paid off, but I have not seen it for the last two years—I do not know whether the encumbrance was paid off; I never saw any money pass—there is a clause enabling Messrs. Crawcour to come in at any time—it was ageed that the bill of sale was not to be registered for 18 days, to give Salter time to look out and get his money somewhere else, and then he would have paid them off.

WILLIAM SALTER . I live at Binstead, Isle of Wight—in 1877 I took a lease of the Queen's Hotel, Ventnor, and entered into negotiations with Crawcour and Co. to furnish part of the hotel—furniture was delivered value about 1,650l., an agreement was drawn up, and I paid all the instalments up to a certain date—on Saturday, 5th January, 1878, I was ill in bed at the Queen's Hotel, but the defendant was determined to see me, and I saw him at my bedroom door, but no conversation passed, because when the door was opened he ran downstairs—I did not see him on Sunday, but I did on Monday, the 7th, about 12 o'clock—Mr. Rhodes, my solicitor, had then arrived—I met the defendant on the ground-floor with Mr. Norman, and went into the coffee-room—my son and Mr. Rhodes, Mr. Campbell, and the

defendant were there—I asked the defendant what right he had to interfere as I was putting his father off in lieu of the hiring agreement—he behaved like a dog at my heels—I have no doubt he felt annoyed at my remarks, and I told him to get out of my presence, I was dealing with Mr. Smith's solicitor, not with him—when we got into the other room Mr. Norman's clerk was there, and my son, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Cox, and the defendant—I said to the defendant, "You go away, and do not interfere; I will pay your father the money"—he withdrew, and I closed the door after him—all the rest were left in the room—the deed was on the table, and Mr. Rhodes was perusing it—I signed it first, after a good deal of reluctance, and my son, Mr. Rhodes, and Mr. Norman signed it as attesting witnesses—the defendant was not in the room then; he had left at my request—I subsequently took proceedings to set aside the deed—I was in Vice-Chancellor Malins's Court on 26th January, 1878, and was represented by Counsel—I saw the defendant in Court, and saw him leave the Court hurriedly—after that I became bankrupt—I was examined when this action was heard before Vice-Chancellor Malins in April last, and saw the defendant sworn—he gave evidence.

Cross-examined. I was examined as a witness at Ryde in August, 1878, and gave an account of this transaction—I was asked what the document was which I signed—I said that it consisted of seven skins—I said nothing about the trustees—the purport of what I said was that there was a legal gentleman present, and I thought if I signed it it would be my death-warrant, and I did not know what to do; if I did not the parties would stop in possession—I dare say I was asked how many were present—I never said that Herbert Crawcour was present, because I objected to his being there, but he was in the hotel—I very likely said in the Vice-Chancellor's Court. "After Crawcour had gone out of the room it is very likely he came in again, but if he did Mr. Norman would order him out"—I cannot account for the words, I am so excitable under this case—the defendant never came into the room again after he was ordered out, but I met him in the passage afterwards—I said, "When we left the coffee-room and adjourned into the other room I believe it was Mr. Norman ordered him out"—that is correct—I cannot say whether Mr. Norman ordered him out; my memory fails me—I may even have said, "It is very likely Mr. Norman would order him out," but I know he was not present when the deed was signed because I should not have signed it—I have been bankrupt once, and have filed a petition twice for liquidation—when I met my creditors I believe there was not much assets—I do not think the estate would realise anything—I failed in 1867, and paid 2s. in the pound—I do not think I failed again in September, 1870, but I met my creditors and they met some assets—I only owed Messrs. Rule 800l., but they got a mortgage out of me for 1,250l. in order to turn the hotel into a company—Mr. Smith arranged to advance 1,250l., and pay off what Rule had a claim for—it would not have come to my being sold up by Messrs. Rule but for that, but I dare say I told him so—I did not know that the 1,250l. was to come out of Mr. Smith's pocket—I mean to say that I did not owe Messrs. Crawcour anything at that time—I had paid for 140l. worth of goods, and the carriage down to the Isle of Wight cost me about 125l.—I was not in arrear in my payments, only 10l, which was the balance of a bill I paid before it came due—while Rule was threatening to turn me out Messrs. Crawcour were not complaining that I was

two instalments behind—I did not know till 12th January that the money to pay off the mortgage came out of Mr. Crawcour's pocket—I did not know from that time until last January that the defendant had sworn that he was present when the deed was executed—I never looked at the affidavit by which the deed was verified—I am not a lawyer, and my lawyer neglected it—I paid Tindal, a lawyer, 68l., which was all the money I had, but he would not work—Mr. Urry has not been my lawyer—I swear that Mr. Tindal has not acted for me since—I swore this affidavit, and the date is there (January 29, 1878)—it was both Mr. Norman and I who ordered the defendant out of the room—I said at Vice-Chancellor Malins's Court that I ordered him out—I was very angry with him—I did not personally invite the defendant to lunch after the deed was signed—no doubt I invited the other gentlemen, and as they had to go to lunch they might as well come to me as to the Royal—he had two or three of his sons coming loafing down there—I pledge my oath that I saw Mr. Crawcour senior in and out of Court on the day that Mr. Locock Webb made an application to Vice-Chancellor Malins—Mr. Smith is a public-house broker—I believe he introduced Mr. Crawcour to me for the purpose of getting the furniture on the hire system; I am not quite sure—he is the person to whom I applied to get the money to pay off Rule—I attended the Newport County Court in my last bankruptcy in 1878, but not to get myself made bankrupt to defeat this deed; I was obliged to go there from force of circumstances; I was forced there by creditors both at Newport and Ryde—I did not get myself made bankrupt on purpose, but being in a deplorable position I assented to be made bankrupt—the first time I saw Mr. Rubenstein was when he was pointed out to me at the Court; he was with young Mr. Crawcour.

Re-examined. Mr. Cox was in the room when the deed was signed, looking out at the window at the shipping passing.

CHARLES FREDERICK MAHEW . About 26th June, 1878, I was in Vice-chancellor Malins's Court, and the defendant was pointed out to me sitting in one of the benches reserved for Counsel—I did not know him before—a motion was to be made by Mr. Locock Webb in Salter v. Crawcour, and during a short interlude he left the Court with a gentleman whom I should not recognise—I did not follow them, but I went to the Queen's Bench Office for registration of bills of sale, in the Temple, and saw him there—some papers were on a desk—I left before them, and went to Vice-Chancellor Malins's Court again—Mr. Salter was in Court—I saw no more.

Cross-examined. I have ceased practising as a solicitor three or four years, but Mr. Salter had spoken to me as an old friend, I having previously acted for him professionally—I have no note of the time of day, but I should say it was about 1 o'clock—my attention was first called to this incident in March or April this year—this was on a Saturday—the Vice-Chancellor's Court sits till 2 o'clock on Saturdays, and sometimes till 3—the application took a very short time; I believe it was ex parle.

Witnesses for the Defence.

WALTER COX . I am manager to Mr. Storey, house furnisher, of London Wall—in January, 1878, I was salesman at Messrs. Crawcour's furnishing manufactory, Brompton—on Sunday, 6th July, Mr. Crawcour, senior, directed me to go to the Queen's Hotel, Ventnor, with some documents, and gave me certain instructions—I went to Portsmouth that night, and went across next morning—I went to the Royal Hotel, and found the defendant, Mr. Norman,

and Mr. Salter—I went to the Queen's Hotel, and subsequently Mr. Rhodes arrived—there was a conversation before Mr. Salter would sign the deed—I heard angry words—Salter said, "I will not sign while Herbert Crawcour is in the room"—he wished the defendant and myself to go out, but neither of us did so once—the deed was signed in the presence of us both—the defendant stood on my right the whole time; if he had left the room during the whole or part of the time I must have seen him go out—I most decidedly pledge my oath that he did not go out.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. We were in the coffee-room first of all—I saw Mr. Rhodes examining the parchment deed—there were angry work between Mr. Salter, senior, and the defendant—the defendant accompanied the other persons into the smaller room when the cloth was about to be laid in the coffee-room—Salter said more than once that he would not sign while the defendant was in the room—I did not see the defendant, or Rhodes, or anybody go towards the door after Salter said that—the door was closed part of the time and open part of the time, I suppose, but no one opened it or came in that I am aware of—I do not remember the door being opened before the deed was signed, but my back was to the door—I was not looking out of the window of that room at the shipping the whole time, it was in the large room that I looked at the shipping—I was in the second room, the little room, I dare say an hour and a half or two hours—I will pledge my oath to that—I was standing in front of the table opposite Mr. Salter, senior, and a discussion was going on upon the provisions of the deed—the discussion had taken place in the smaller room, but the longest discussion, the final discussion, took place in the small room—I cannot tell you who altered Salter's mind as to signing while the defendant was in the room, but his mind was altered—Mr. Rose was sitting at the table facing the door, and young Salter was near him—Mr. Norman was on the light side of the defendant conversing with his solicitor—I have pledged my oath that he did not go out of the room, and I will do so again—he did not leave the room, neither did I—I said before Vice-chancellor Malms that I was looking out of the window watching the shipping, but that referred to the larger room—I don't believe the question was put with regard to the smaller room, where the deed was signed—Mr. Higgins, the leading Counsel on the other side, put the question to me, and I said that I was leaning out of the window of the larger room, not the smaller room—the smaller room looks out on the sea—I left Messrs. Crawcour's service at the end of March or the beginning of April—I was in their service on 22nd June, 1878, but I cannot remember where I was that day—I was not asked on the Friday by the prisoner or anybody to make an affidavit on a bill of sale.

Re-examined. I should not have had the least objection to make an affidavit that I was an attesting witness, but I have never been asked.

MORRIS SAMUEL RUBENSTEIN . I am a solicitor, of 20, Regent Street—on 25th January, 1878, Mr. Lewin Crawcour called on me with respect to registering a bill of sale on some furniture at the Queen's Hotel, Ventnor—I may have asked, if I was not told, that Herbert Crawcour's name should not appear on the deed before it could be registered—I do not know whether he signed it that day or the next, but it was arranged—he called at my office about 11.30 next morning, and we went to the Queen's Bench Office to register the deed—the affidavit was sworn there, the deed was copied over

night—after that I had to make a call at Vice-Chancellor Malins's chambers, Stone Buildings, Lincoln's Inn—Herbert Crawcour went with me—coming back we went went into Vice-Chancellor Malins's Court, as there is nearly always something interesting going on there—I swear that that was after the deed had been registered and the affidavit sworn, and the note of the Vice-Chancellor shows it—the deed was registered before any application was made—on 28th June I first heard by letter from the defendant of an injunction being applied for.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. This is the Vice-Chancellor's judgment—I am not acquainted with the fact that the Salters had Attempted to set aside the deed—I was brought in as solicitor on the 25th, the day before the deed was registered; before that he had Mr. Norman for his solicitor—they had not applied before that to set aside the deed—the deed was ready, but we could not get the stationer's copy ready, as it was 120 folios—it was brought to me on the 25th with instructions to register—the defendant's name was not on it at that time—the papers had not been taken out of Mr. Norman's hands then; I was acting as solicitor on the 25th for the purpose of the registration only; Mr. Norman was busy in Court, and could not register it, and the last day was getting very close—I knew nothing about it till the 25th, and I had the copy made over night—I have Mr. Norman's letter, in which he says, "I will come down if you have the affidavit ready."

Re-examined. If there had been, any necessity for it I would have got Mr. Norman to come—he was very anxious about it.

GEORGE SHAW EDWARDS . I am clerk to a law stationer of Westminster—I see by my day-book that on January 25th, 1878, I had instructions to recopy a mortgage deed in Salter v. Smith—it was 196 folios—it was delivered on the 25th.

LEWIN CRAWCOUR . I am a wholesale furniture dealer and manufacturer, of Brompton—the amount due to me on this hiring agreement of January, 1878, is about 1,260l,—I was applied to by Mr. Smith to advance the Salters enough to pay off the mortgage, and I advanced 1,250l. out of my own pocket, and have not got a shilling back; all I have got under the decree is a right to my own furniture at its present value—I sent the defendant down to Ventnor for the express purpose of seeing the deed executed—I left it in Mr. Smith's hands—he is a public-house broker—he introduced the business to me, but not actually—I was not near the Court when the application was made to Vice-Chancellor Malins—it is utterly untrue.

Cross-examined. The approximate value of the lease of the Queen's Hotel is 2,000l. for 21 year—I know nothing of the real value—it turns out to be terminable at 7 years—there is power to purchase the freehold at 10,000l.—Dixon, Ward, and Co., who advanced the money, have the deed now.

The prisoner received a good character.


Reference Number: t18800803-479

479. GEORGE WILLIAM CUMBERS (36) PLEADED GUILTY to four indictments for embezzling orders for 10l., 112l., 87l., and other sums, of Henry Smith and others, his masters.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18800803-480

480. WILLIAM TROUBRIDGE (65) , Stealing 651 pieces of paper the property of John Wiley. Second Count for receiving the same.

MR. PUROELL Prosecuted; MR. FILLAN Defended.

The Jury, being unable to agree, were discharged without giving a verdict There was another indictment against the prisoner, upon which no evidence was offered.


OLD COURT.—Wednesday, August 4th, 1880.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-481

481. RICHARD TOBIN (24) and MARY EGGLESTOM (22) was indicted for , and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing and slaying Richard Egglestone.



The details of this case were unfit for publication.


Reference Number: t18800803-482

482. MARTIN RICHARD CATLIN (63) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing and slaying Hannah Catlin.


GEORGE ROE . I work occasionally in Mr. Catlin's garden—on Tuesday evening, 6th July, about 6.15, I called at the house, and saw the deceased, Mrs. Catlin—she said "Will you go and fetch me 2s. worth of brandy, for I had an accident last night with a benzoline lamp, and set my dress on fire"—I fetched the brandy, and asked her if she had any linseed oil in the house for the burn—she said "No"—I asked her if I should fetch her some—she said she would be glad if I would, and next evening I took it to the house, about 6.15, when I left my work—I knocked at the door twice—I could not make any one hear—I tried the door, and found it was locked or fastened, and I put the oil in through the scullery window—this (produced) is the bottle—there is nothing in it now—on the following Friday, Saturday, and Monday I tried the front gate, and it was locked—when I saw the deceased on the Tuesday she seemed very ill like, and she was in a flurry, trembling; she seemed very sensible—I asked her if I could do anything for her, or get any one to look after her, or do anything more—she said "No, I shall be better to-morrow."

Cross-examined. I did not mention a doctor—if she had asked me to fetch a doctor I would have done so, or if I had thought she was so badly burnt I would have gone for one of my own accord—I was at work in the garden, planting some flowers, and she called me to the back door and gave me the 2s. to go and fetch the brandy, and I gave it to her At the back door; she said she had upset the lamp and set her dress on fire, and she screamed out, and Mr. Catlin ran downstairs and clouted it the best way he could—I used to work in the garden occassionally—they had lived there about 15 months—they were on very good terms when sober—they always seemed nice and happy and comfortable together when sober, and always walking in the garden of an evening very happily—there was hard drinking last Easter—I did not see any after that till this time.

ELIZA BEST . I am servant to Mr. Archer, a neighbour of the prisoner; he used to keep cows—I used to go to the prisoner's house morning and afternoon to deliver milk—on Tuesday morning, 6th July, about 8 o'clock, when I

went I saw Mrs. Catlin—she said she had had an accident and burnt her dress—she did not say when—she appeared to he ill—about half-past 6 the same afternoon I saw her again; she then appeared to be very ill—she stood in the passage—she told me to bring the milk to her—she used to come to the door and bring her jug and pour the milk into it—this time she asked me to come to her—she had a glass and I poured the milk into it—I don't know whether she was sober or not—I never saw her again—I went again with the milk on the Wednesday morning; Mr. Getlin took it in then—I went on the Thursday morning and knocked at the door, but nobody answered, and I brought the milk away.

JOHN ARCHER . I live at Clarence Villa, Bedfont, I went to live there in October, 1878—on 30th December that year the prisoner and his wife came to reside next door in a house called Holly Lodge, a detached house standing in its own garden, and about 30 feet from my house—on Saturday, 3rd July, I noticed that the blinds of the house were partly drawn up, and they continued in the same state up to the 13th—I had not seen anything of the prisoner or his wife during that week—on Sunday, the 11th, about 7 in the evening, I went round to the back of the prisoner's house; I got on a garden seat and looked through the window; I could not see anybody; I could see into the kitchen; I could see the table and I could see the clock going, and could hear it tick, and there was a basket of wood on the table; the next evening, Monday, I saw the prisoner peeping through the glass of the passage window upstairs, and I saw him two or three times in the course of the afternoon passing across the passage from one bedroom to the other—on the Tuesday afternoon, the 13th, he came to me and said he either thought Mrs. Catlin was dead or mad—he said "That d—d bitch has been mad again," and he asked me if I "would do him a favour, to send for Dr. Lundy; I did so—when sober the prisoner and his wife seemed on very good terms and fond of each other—I have frequently seen Mr. Catlin the worse for liquor, and Mrs. Catlin three or four times—I did not hear any noise in the prisoner's house during this time—I went into the house on the Tuesday after Mr. Lundy had gone—I saw Mrs. Catlin lying in the right-band room downstairs—at that time the prisoner appeared to be drunk.

Cross-examined. I heard of the accident with the lamp on the Tuesday morning as it happened on the Monday; my wife told me of it—I saw Roe in the garden—if I had known Mrs. Catlin was seriously injured I would have gone for a doctor—I had not seen her after she was burnt, nor for two days before—I am quite sure the clock was going when I saw it through the window—it was an ordinary Dutch clock.

LEWIS FRANCIS LUNDT . I am a registered medical practitioner at Feltham, close to Bedfont—on Tuesday, 13th July, I was fetched to the prisoner's house about 3 o'clock—after knocking a second time the prisoner opened the door; he said "Who's there"—I said "The doctor"—he said "Come in"—I entered, and he relocked the door; he then opened the door of the right-band front room on the ground floor—he said "Come in and see a b—corpse"—he had the appearance of recovering from heavy drinking—I noticed a very bad smell—he sat down in the easy-chair by the side of the Replace; I saw the body of the deceased lying on the floor with her head towards the table and her feet towards the fireplace—she was entirely dressed except stockings—I said to him "Mr. Catlin, this is a serious matter"—he replied "She set herself on fire on Tuesday; I threw two pails

of water over her, and she died on Wednesday"—I then unlocked the front door and called the police, and the prisoner was removed—I at once proceeded to examine the state of the body; it was in an advanced state of decomposition, and was crawling with large vermin—in my opinion she had been dead at least from five to six days—there was a rag wrapped round the left foot, which had apparently been soaked with oil—the foot was extensively burnt—I made a post-mortem examination next day, Wednesday, the 14th—the face on the right side was scorched—the fingers of the right hand were severely burnt; the left side of the abdomen was severely burnt, also the whole of the right thigh and leg down to the foot—the left foot was burnt, and the left leg and thigh on the outside; there was no burning on the front of the chest, but at the posterior—the natis and the greater part of the trunk, particularly on the left side, was severely burnt—I found large bruise on the right temple; the bruises were not very old—they extended through the skin to the bone, but the bone was not discoloured; there was another bruise close to the shoulder, another one close to the right nipple, and another on the left side above the hip—the right arm was slightly bruised, but hardly worth mentioning—on opening the brain I found it congested with its membranes—I did not trace the appearances of her having been addicted to excessive drinking, but a person might drink for years without showing any indication of it—the body was well nourished; she was a very fine woman; the organs were all healthy; I should think she was about 45 years of age—the cause of death was depression of the nervous system, congestion of the internal organs, and probably coma—the extent to which the body was burnt would produce the shock to the nervous system; the extent of the burning would produce the symptoms I found—the bruises had nothing whatever to do with the cause of death—the burning ought to have received immediate medical treatment—extensive destruction by burning the skin is dangerous—if she had not medical treatment she would get worse by degrees—she would fall into this state of congestion in which the organs were within 48 hours—I think had medical aid been procured within the first 24 hours her life would have been spared; at all events prolonged—I have seen cases more extensively burnt recover—in my opinion, even at the end of 48 hours medical aid would have tended to prolong life, but it would not have given such a good prognosis of the case—there would have been a probability or a chance of prolonging life—the clothing on the body was not all burnt—she could have sustained the injuries while those clothes were on her; they must have been put on afterwards; I saw some burnt clothing, found a portion of charred fabric in the kitchen, pieces of black burnt fabric, the flounce of a petticoat, and pieces of burnt fabric all over the house upstairs—I examined the house—it was in a very dirty and bad condition, particularly the two front bedrooms upstairs and one of the back bedrooms—the beds, bedding, and bedclothes were all covered with human excrement; the carpet was all smeared, you could hardly step, and part of the dressing-table and the washstand—I did not see any excrement in the downstairs rooms—there was a quantity of decomposed food in the pantry.

Cross-examined. The jamb of the door of the room where the body was was charred, and the skirting between the door and the staircase—the mat at the foot of the stairs was partially burnt, and the jamb at the left hand of the kitchen door was charred, and the bottom panel of the door itself—I

saw no indication of water on the ground—I did not find any bottle containing oil—I did not find any signs of burning of the woodwork on the staircase—I did not see the lamp which had caused the mischief—I saw two boots in the left-hand front bedroom; one was badly burnt—she had obviously gone upstairs and changed her clothing—next day I saw remnants of her burnt things behind the door—her left hand was not burnt; the fingers of the right hand were very badly burnt; that would probably be done in tearing off her clothing—the hair was not scorched; it was fastened well back—I traced scorching on the right cheek; that might be produced by filling asleep close to the lamp—these were extensive burns—the remnants of the burnt clothing showed that all the bottom clothing was destroyed—in my opinion if medical aid had been procured at the time life would have been saved—there was nothing in the stomach but a little slimy mucus; I could not trace alcohol—13 empty spirit bottles were found in the wardrobe—I examined the prisoner at the station—I did not find any operation for fistula; I did not examine him for that, only as to his sobriety—he was not stupefied; he was able to answer my questions.

Re-examined. I have had a great deal of experience in cases of burning—I reside close to the powder-mills, and have seen a great many of these cases—I have been in practice there 23 years—I never saw the prisoner or his wife before to my knowledge—there is no medical man nearer to their house than myself, and I live a mile and a half from them.

JOHN BOWLING (Police Inspector). On Tuesday, 13th July, about 3 in the afternoon, I went to the prisoner's house—I saw Dr. Lundy there, and saw the deceased lying on the floor—I found a quantity of clothes partially burnt, and a quantity in a dust-pan in the kitchen; it was tinder—there was an apron in the scullery, and some burnt clothing in the right-hind bedroom upstairs—I found this empty oil bottle lying down outside the back door—the clock was going—I took it to the police-station to test it; it will go nearly 30 hours; you pull up the weights when it runs down—I saw a moveable calendar in the back parlour, set for Wednesday the 7th—I took the prisoner into custody on the 15th, after the inquest—I told him I should charge him with culpable neglect and causing the death of his wife—he said "I have nothing more to say than I have said before the Coroner"—I was present at the inquest—the prisoner was called by the Coroner, and cautioned that what he said might be used in evidence against him—he made a statement, which was taken down and read over to him, and he signed it. (The Prisoners Statement was read as follows: "I am a retired baker. The deceased was my wife. I was lying down very much afflicted with diarrhoea, and had taken some brandy and water. There was a scream, and when I went down I found her in the passage. She was alight. I threw some water over her. She was well enough to go up and take off her burnt rags and lie down. She come down again and sat in the easy-chair, as she was in the habit of doing. I had to lie down again afterwards, and when I came down she was lying on the floor and appeared to be dozing, when I found she got so bad. By the time I got down again she had been lying there a couple of days, I should think, and so I sent off for the doctor. I was very much to blame. I ought to have sent for a doctor before. It was three or four days, I should think, from the time she was burnt until she died. I can't say on what day she was burnt. It was about foe 8th or 9th, I think. I had nobody in the house. I had no servant.

She had no illness that I am aware of, nor am I aware of her having seen the servant next door.

Cross-examined. The bottle was lying on the scraper outside the back door—it did not appear as if it had been put there; it looked more as if it had been thrown—it was lying down flat; the cork was in it—I found no trace of oil spilt in the house—the general repute was that they lived very happily together—I did not discover any violence towards each other.

WILLIAM GUEST CARPENTER . I am medical officer of the House of Detention, and was so when the prisoner was brought there.

Cross-examined. He was admitted on 16th July—he was then trembling and in a partial state of stupor, contracted pupils, and tremor of the hands—I tested him, and found him unable to give any coherent account of himself—I treated him up to 21 at July—that was the first day when his recollection partially recovered—in consequence of suspecting narcotie poisoning I examined and found that he had been operated upon for fistula—the sphincter muscle had been divided; in fact, he had no control of the sphincter muscle at all—I asked whether he took laudanum—he said he was subject to diarrhoea, and occasionally took about 30 drops of laudanum to check the action of the bowels, but he could not restarin them—I asked what he took to drink—he said brandy generally and other things—I also found that he was ruptured and suffering from hennis—a person so afflicted and taking laudanum might lie in a comatose state for hours—the mixture of the brandy and the laudanum would produce a great state of stupor, almost amounting to coma, for certainly 24 hours or more; if he then took more laudanum it would go on again for the same time—I don't think he would be able to appreciate matters going on around him—he told me that he was lying on his bed in a state of stupor when his wife burnt herself.

CHARLES COLLINS . The deceased was my sister—her name was Hannah Catlin—she was 45 years of age.

Cross-examined. I had known the prisoner about 16 years—I know of his affliction.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, August 4th, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-483

483. JOHN WHITEHAND (28) and JOHN RUSSELL (28) , Robbery together on John Spencer, and stealing from him his watch.

MR. AUSTIN METCALFE Prosecuted; MR. KEITH FRITH defended Whitehand.

JOHN SPENCER . I lived on the 23rd July at the Golden Cross Hotel, Charing Cross—on the 22nd July I was in Endell Street about midnight; I was talking to Margaret West—I had a watch and chain—some one snatched at the chain, and I fell down from the force of the blow or grab—I did not see what became of the watch—I saw two or three persons but not their faces—one man was sentenced the following day at the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. I drank with Margaret West at several public-houses—I had a good deal; West had not so much—the watch was snatched very quickly—West had hold of my arm; she did not seize me round the waist nor hug me—I took out my watch in the public-house—Miss West and others saw it.

MARGARET WEST . I live at 127, Stamford Street—on the 22nd July I with Mr. Spencer—I met him about 7 in the evening—I dined with him, and then I went with him to a music-hall in Holborn—I saw three rough men following us from the music-hall—Mr. Spencer was a little tipsy—one was convicted on the following day of stealing a watch; the two others were the prisoners—the one who is sentenced said, "Sir, you have dropped something," and snatched the watch—part of the chain went too, and part was left hanging—Russell was standing on one side, and White-hand on the other—both ran up the street—we were both knocked down—I was quite sober—I got up and ran after the thief, and saw him give the watch to Whitehand—I held Whitehand, who was walking off with the watch—I said, "Give me that watch"—he said, "I have got no watch" and he pulled the arms off my dress, and struck me on the nose, which caused a black eye—I got away—I afterwards met the man who is convicted, and gave him into custody—I gave a description of the prisoners, and afterwards identified them at Bow Street—I am sure they were the men; I saw their faces.

Cross-examined. I did not drink with the gentleman in a public-house; it was in the music-hall—I had one glass of champagne; I might have had more—I had nothing else—I noticed the gentleman's watch while we were dining—I wrote my address for him with his pencil—that was about 11.45; persons were passing at the time, no vehicles—the whole thing was very quickly done.

JOHN MUMFORD (Policeman E 39). I received a description of two men from Miss West—I went to Oatskin Court, London Road, on 24th July—I found Whitehand on the first-floor back—his wife and two other women were there, not Russell—I said, "I want you for being concerned with Mullins (The man who was convicted) in stealing a watch in Endell Street on the 22nd"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—his wife said, "Peter shall suffer too, as he had a share of the money"—Whitehand then said, "I shan't go with you unless you go to Westminster for Peter"—I took him to Bow Street—Russell was taken on the second-floor in the same house—he was charged with the same offence—he said, "I know nothing about it, but I will go with you"—both prisoners were put with 12 other men at Bow Street, and identified by Miss West without the slightest hesitation.

Cross-examined. The 12 men were similar in appearance to the prisoners—I was not standing close to Whitehand, nor Miss West, nor Russell—Miss West did not walk up and down; she looked at the prisoners about two minutes.

Re-examined. I did not intimate to Miss West the prisoners to pick out.

ALFRED LANE (Detective E). I went with the last witness to arrest Russell—I told him I should take him into custody for robbing Mr. Spencer of a gold watch with others—he said he knew nothing about it—a woman came in the room and said, "Never mind, she's been rucking;" that means rounding on them—we took him to the station—the woman said it was because she did not get "her corner;" that means her share of the proceeds the watch was sold for.

Russell's Defence. I know nothing of the parties. I never saw them in Holborn, where Miss West says she saw me.

WHITEHAND— GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Reference Number: t18800803-484

484. ROBERT POWELL EVERETT (22) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Henry Dick, and stealing 34 watches and other property.

MR. MILLWOOD Prosecuted.

HENRY DICK . I keep a jeweller's shop at 128, Camden Road, St. Pancras—on 25th May last I went to bed a little after 11—before doing so I went into the shop myself, and the place was all square and the property there—the following morning I was called by the police a little after six o'clock—I sleep on the ground-floor—I went into the shop; it was all in confusion, and the window stripped—the shop door was shut—I missed 35 watches, 86 rings, and other property, worth about 300l.—I have only recovered this pair of eyeglasses produced—a square of glass had been taken from the back window which looked into the yard—the shop door had been opened on the inside.

WALTER BRISCOMB . I am assistant to Messrs. Archbutt, of 201, West-minster Bridge Road—on Saturday, the 12th June, the prisoner brought these glasses and asked 3s. or 4s. for them—I asked him whom they belonged to—he said, "My brother gave them to me," and that he lived in Webber Row—that is near the Waterloo Road—I asked him to come round to the front—he went out and down the Westminster Bridge Road, leaving the glasses behind—I followed him into a public-house—I sent a boy for a constable, and gave him into custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I cannot say whether I was waiting on customers when you came in.

DANIEL MUNDEN (Policeman Y 544). On May 26, about 6.15 a.m., I was passing the prosecutor's shop; I found the door open—I entered the premises; I found the shop in great confusion—I awoke Mr. Dicks; we searched the shop, and found the implements produced (lantern, jemmy, and knife)—a pane of glass had been extracted from a back window 10in by 14in—this knife was lying on the work-bench inside the window, and the stock bit as well (jemmy)—the lantern was on the counter.

THOMAS LUCAS (Police Sergeant Y). I took the prisoner in charge at Lambeth Police-court—I told him the charge was for committing a burglary at 128, Camden Road—he said, "Oh, you are dreaming"—I conveyed him to Kentish Town—I said, "How do you account for the eyeglasses?"—he said, "I bought them of a man"—he was searched, and nothing was found on him.

Prisoner's Defence. I bought the eyeglasses in the Meat Market. I did not have them till the 12th June, and the robbery was committed somewhere about the Derby Day. I left them at the pawnbroker's because I had been sleeping at a common lodging-house, and did not want it known, as they asked for my address. The witness was serving a customer, and did not ask me a question.

GUILTY of receiving.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

For cases tried in Old Court, Friday, and following days, see Surrey cases.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, August 5th, 1880.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18800803-485

485. FRANCIS DALLY FISHER (32) PLEADED GUILTY to a libel on Ida Augusta Tabiteaul ; also to a libel on Gerald Clements Reaney.—

To enter into recognisances to keep the peace for six months, and to pay the costs of the prosecution.

Reference Number: t18800803-486

486. JANE YOUNGMAN (20) to feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 8l. with intent to defraud, after a conviction at Ipswich in 1876.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Nine Months' Imprisonment

Reference Number: t18800803-487

487. WILLIAM DORMER (42) to unlawfully appropriating to his own use 900l., which he had received as a trustee.— Six Months' Imprisonment [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] And

Reference Number: t18800803-488

488. HENRY WILLIAMS (28) to a burglary in the dwelling-house of James Owen, and stealing eight scarf-pins.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-489

489. JOHN HENRY PERRY, Unlawfully making a transfer of his furniture, with intent to defraud his creditors; and JOHN GREEN aiding and assisting him. Other Counts for conspiracy.

MESSRS. BESLEY and HORACE AVORT Prosecuted; MR. E. CLARKE, Q.C., appeared for Green, and MR. J. P. GRAIN for Perry.

HENRY ALFRED STACEY . I am Superintendent of Records in the Bankruptcy Court—I produce the file of proceedings in Perry's bankruptcy—he signed and filed his petition on 29th November, 1879—it was filed about 1.15—he is described as a mantle manufacturer, of 32, Broad Street, living at 1, Augusta Road, Hammersmith—the statutory meeting of creditors was fixed for 19th December under the liquidation; and on 18th December I find that a petition in bankruptcy was presented against him by Mr. Feakes, a creditor; and on 3rd January he was adjudicated bankrupt on that petition—on 21st January Mr. J. W. Close was appointed trustee—the act of bankruptcy was the liquidation petition—here is a statement of affairs filed by the bankrupt, showing liabilities 2,028l. 1s. 4d., and assets 515l. 1s.—the furniture and fittings at the office at Broad Street are mentioned among the assets at 19l. 2s.—the furniture at Augusta Road is estimated to produce nil, being covered by a bill of sale dated 24th November, 1879, and registered 29th November, 1879—I find that on 11th February there was a private sitting for the examination of the bankrupt and others—the transcript of the shorthand writer's notes is here—I also find an Order of Court of March 9 setting aside the bill of sale.

GEORGE BLAGRAVE SNELL . I am one of the official shorthand writers to the Bankruptcy Court—I took notes of the two defendants' examinations—this is a correct transcript of them.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKE. It is in one of my clerk's writing, but it was read over to me by my original notes, and I made such alterations as were necessary to make it perfect. (The examinations of the two defendants were here put in and read.)

JAMES WILLIAM CLOSE . I am a public accountant at Leeds—I represent several of the Yorkshire creditors—I have before me a list of the creditors to this matter—there is Bennett for 44l. 19s. 6d.; Cooke, Hepworth, and Co., 225l. 7s. 5d.; Gelder and Son, 58l. 1s. 3d., and several others—I attended a meeting called by Perry at his place of business, 32, Broad Street, about 19th or 20th November last year; he had called his creditors together; there were other creditors present—both the defendants were present—an offer was made, I think of 5s. in the pound, which I declined on behalf of the Yorkshire creditors whom I represented—nothing was said on that occasion about a bill of sale, nor was Wormald's name mentioned; I never heard it, nor any mention of any debt due by Perry to

Green or Wormald—the meeting was adjouned to the 25th—I did not attend that—I instructed Mr. Barron, my clerk, to attend—I saw a list of bills of sale in one of the trade circulars—I had no idea of any bill of sale by Perry on 24th November till I saw that trade list—I first knew of it is December—I attended the statutory meeting on 19th December—I saw it in Perry's Gazette before that—both the defendants were present at that meeting; no resolution was passed—I did not know at that time that there had been a petition by Feakes—I knew nothing of Feakes—the bankruptcy occurred after that—the first meeting under the bankruptcy was about 21st January; I was then appointed trustee—I subsequently took possession of the whole of the furniture—Mr. Everett, the receiver, in possession—I afterwards gave up the piano—other property was given up to Mr. Abbott—I sold the residue, it realised about 40l.—the receive handed over a balance of about 24l.—I received other assets, about 220l. in all, including the 40l. for the furniture—I knew Green before.

Cross-examined. Perry answered all my questions; he has rendered every assistance he could to elucidate his affairs—I believe his statements were true—he puts down his total assets at 515l.—the receiver and I have realised 380l., out of which payments have been made—the business was that of a mantle maker—I have had considerable experience in the realisation of bankrupts' estates—380l. out of 515l. is a very fair realisation; perhaps rather more than ordinarily in London—I find it better in Leeds—I did not hear any of the creditors say they were willing to accept the 5s. in the pound; a few might; I know one did, Mr. Glave—Mr. Cook, of Batley, was not present; he is a large creditor; there are two brothers named Cook—I was authorised by the younger Mr. Cook, before I left Leeds, not to accept any composition—I am not aware that Mr. Edwards represented Messrs. Cook at the meeting—I swore an affidavit before this prosecution was instituted—I had previously read the examintion of Mr. Wormald in the Court of Bankruptcy, also the examination of both the defendants.

Re-examined. This (produced) is the authority that was given to me to represent the creditors at the meeting; that includes Cook, Hepworth, and Co., who arc creditors for 225l.—I represented about 1,487l. out of 2,050l; it does not include Mr. Edwards, I don't know him—I am not aware of that name among the list of creditors—the furniture is not included in the 380l. or the stock-in-trade which was seized by the landlord for rent.

ARTHUR WORMALD . I am a surgical instrument maker of 31, Stamford Street, Blackfriars, and am the person mentioned in the bill of sale of 24th November—prior to that I had for some years been very intimate with Green—I knew him living at 3, Augusta Road, Hammersmith—I knew Perry casually in 1879, but not much; I had no personal dealings with him up to the date of the bill of sale, only through Green—I did not know where he lived in 1879; I knew he had lived somewhere about Hammer-smith—I discounted two bills of exchange for Perry, one dated 7th August, for 63l. 10s.—I did not see Perry with regard to that, I did it through Green—I handed a cheque for 60l. to Green—I paid the bill into the Union Bank, it was met at maturity on 10th November—during 1879 I advanced several sums of money to Green by cheque, which cheques I produce—they amount to 179l. 5s. altogether—I had no receipt or voucher for any of them—I also gave him a 100l. cheque drawn on a different

banker in the name of my firm, because that was on a business account; the others were a private account—I did not give any instructions to anybody for the preparation of that bill of sale—I first heard of it at the latter and of December or commencement of January—Green brought it to me—Mr. Barron, the clerk to Mr. Close, the trustee, called on me about 2nd January, about three weeks after Green had brought me the bill of sale—I did not look at it when he brought it me—I did not know of its having been executed—I did not know about Perry's affairs being in liquidation, I had met with an accident and was laid up—the bill of sale was left with me—I took no steps upon it—I had no inventory of the furniture taken—I knew nothing about the value of it—on 11th February I was examined at the Bankruptcy Court—I then produced the bill of sale and gave it up after my examination—the whole of the 179l. 5s. is still owing to me—on 24th November, the date of the bill of sale, I did not advance 10l. to Perry or Green, or to anybody connected with this matter—I have not taken any steps to prove in Perry's bankruptcy for any of these amounts—in addition to these sums, I have lent other sums to Green—in February, 1879, he was indebted to me in about 100l. in addition to these sums.

Cross-examined by MR. CLARKE. I have known Green 15 years or more—I have from time to time lent him money, which I knew he was going to advance to other persons—I have discounted bills for him—I do not know what the moneys were for; they were small sums—on 29th January I lent 13l.—the reason I made the cheques payable to Green was that I was not fully acquainted with Perry; if I had been I should have made them payable to him—the 100l. was mentioned as going to be paid to Perry—I said it was a large sum, and I ought to have some security—the bill of sale was the only security I ever had—the sums that I paid amounted to 175l. up to 5th December, but 15l. of that was on 5th December—the actual sum at the date of the bill of sale was 164l. 5s.—there was a bill running at the time which became due on 10th December—that was not given me to cover any of these amounts—Green told me that he had the bill of sale for some time in his pocket, and by the look of it no doubt he had.

Re-examined. I cannot say whether he told me when he produced it that Perry was in liquidation, and that there was a receiver—at the time that I parted with the 100l. cheque I was anxious to have some security—I did not know that the 100l. cheque went to Perry until afterwards—it was a loan to Perry; I looked to him for the money—at the time I gave Green the 100l. cheque he mentioned Perry's name—the bill of sale was security for the 100l.—I should think all the small loans were to Green on his own responsibility—I had not heard of loans to Perry prior to the 100l., nor had Green mentioned his name—I had not asked for security before 11th September.

MR. CLARKE submitted there was no case to go to the Jury. The RECORDER was of opinion that although strictly and legally there might be a contravention of the statute, he felt a difficulty in saying that it amounted to a conspiracy. MR. BESLEY upon this did not further press the case.


Reference Number: t18800803-490

490. JOHN GREEN (21) , Feloniously assaulting James Weston, with two others, with intent to rob him.

MR. GREENFIELD Prosecuted.

JAMES WESTON . I am a hatter, of 37, Redman's Row, Stepney—on 2nd July, about 12.45 in the morning, I was passing the Earl Grey, Mile, End Road, when three men suddenly seized me by the throat—the prisoner was one of them—he had me by the throat the same as the other three—I did the best I could to protect myself—I cried out "Police!"—they took out my scarf pin—two of them ran away—I never lost sight of the prisoner—106 K saw us struggling together, and he crossed the road to my assistance and took the prisoner into custody—I lost my pin.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I charged you with highway robbery with violence—I did not miss my pin after I got home; I missed it when I gave you into custody.

FRANCIS COGLAN (Policeman K 106). About 12.30 on 2nd July I saw four men in the Mile End Road—I thought they were larking together—I heard the cry of "Police!" and three men ran away—the prisoner ran towards me—when he saw me he ran in another direction—I ran 200 yards and caught him—I did not lose sight of him—the prosecutor came up and said "That is one of them that tried to choke me."

JAMES WESTON (Re-examined). I did not hold the prisoner till the policeman came up—he extricated himself from me and ran across the road, and the policeman caught him—I never lost sight of him.

Prisoner's Defence. I heard a cry of "Police!" and went to see what the row was, and the prosecutor said I was one of them.

GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Thursday, August 5th 1880.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-491

491. WILLIAM BAGNALL (27) was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing and slaying Charles Holmes.


LOUISA SIMMONDS . I am the wife of George Simmonds, manager of the Wenlock Arms public-house, Stent Street, City Road—on the evening of 21st June the prisoner and Charles Holmes were having refreshment at the bar—Holmes seemed very angry with the prisoner—I left the bar to go into the kitchen, and as I was going I heard blows as if a man's face was being smacked—I came back to the bar, and said "Now then, gentlemen; order, please"—Holmes said "Take that; behave yourself"—I saw Bagnal make a rush at him, and I then saw Holmes bleeding from the forehead—he said "You have got a knife"—the prisoner made no reply; he went out of the house—Holmes went after him, and I closed the door—I saw no knife—they were both customers—Bagnal was not sober; Holmes was.

WILLIAM SMITH . I am a labourer of 19, James Street, City Road—on 21st June I was in Stent Street, a little after 8 p.m.—I saw Holmes standing in the street bleeding from the forehead—I took him to Dr. Powell's—he had his face strapped up, and I then took him in a cab to the hospital.

SARAH HOLMES . I live at 93, Graham Street, City Road, and am the widow of Charles Holmes—on 21st June about 1.30 in the afternoon he left home in his usual health—the next I heard of him he was in Bartholomew's Hospital—I went there to him about 8.30—he came out and tried to walk a little way, and then fell faint—I took him home in a cab, and he went to bed, and stayed in bed till the 23rd—he then became insensible

for about nine hours—he got a little better, and was able to walk about in the house on the 25th—he became worse on the 26th, and I took him back to the hospital, and was present when he died on the 1st July—he was 39 years of age.

GEORGE ROBINSON . I live at 14, Stent Street, City Road—on Monday evening, 21st June, about 8.10, I saw a crowd outside my door, and the prisoner with a pocket knife open in his hand—I took it from him, and in doing so accidentally cut my thumb—I gave the knife to his cousin, who was standing by.

JAMES CRAY (Policeman G 449). On 5th July the prisoner came up to me and said "I wish to surrender myself to you, constable, for the mandaughter of Charles Holmes. I was eating bread and cheese in the public-house, and in warding off the blows the knife accidentally struck him and I ran out. I since heard there was an inquest, and they brought it in manslaughter against me"—I took him to the station and charged him.

HERBERT GEORGE CRONK . I am house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—on the night of 21st June Holmes was brought there—he had a cut over the left eyebrow, about three inches long, and about an inch deep—it was superficial, because it was an oblique cut—the wound had been dressed and strapped—I undid it and examined it—it was a clean cut wound; such as might be inflicted with a clasp knife—I dressed the wound and sent him home, telling him to come next day—he seemed to be the worse for drink—I did not see him again till the 26th, when he was brought in in a delirious condition—after a day's treatment he became better—next day he relapsed, and gradually became worse, and died on 1st July—I assisted in a postmortem examination—I found considerable inflammation over almost the whole of the base of the brain, traceable to a clot in a vein near the wound; that was the cause of death—I think that was due to the wound—there was nothing else to account for it.

JOSEPH PAYNE . I am a labourer, and live at 16, James Street, Wenlock Road—on 21st June I was in the Wenlock Anns—I saw the prisoner and Holmes there having a drop of beer—they had a few words—Bagnal was sitting down on the form, and Holmes struck him twice—I saw no knife—they went out, and I saw no more.

Prisoner's Defence. I had the knife in my hand eating some bread and cheese, and when Holmes struck me I put up my hand and it caught him.


THIRD COURT.—Thursday, August 5th, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-492

492. EDWARD WILSON (29) PLEADED GUILTY to burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Chalkley, and stealing a violin and cigar-case— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. And

Reference Number: t18800803-493

493. RICHARD COX (25) and FREDERICK KRUSE (19) to burglariously breaking into the dwelling-house of John Abbot, with intent to steal— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonment each.

Reference Number: t18800803-494

494. THOMAS PARKIN (31) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of John Coulthard, and stealing a watch and 11s., his property.

MR. DIXON Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended.

JOHN COULTHARD . I have made a plan of this house—I am the prosecutor, and am a carpenter and joiner—I live at 6, Copperfield Road—on Saturday night, 3rd July, I left the house at past 10 o'clock, leaving a long in my room securely locked—I returned about 12.15—I found the box with open and the things thrown about the floor—I had left the door of the house latched, not locked—there are other lodgers—the lock was all right—there were two drawers in the box—the one I kept my money in was drawn out and thrown in the middle of the box empty—I had left in the drawer a watch, a puree, two five-shilling pieces, a shilling, an America coin, and a gold ring—I missed altogether 11s. and a watch—I found the purse in the fireplace next morning with the American coin in it—the prisoner used to lodge with me in the same room—I have gone to the her daily in his presence—I informed the police on the Sunday morning—I went with a detective to the Globe Inn, Mile End Road, and saw the prisoner there—the constable asked him if he had been in the Copperfield Road that evening—he said "No"—he said was he sure—the prisoner said "Oh yes, perfectly sure"—the constable said "If anybody said he saw you there would he be telling an untruth?"—the prisoner replied, "Yes, he would"—I saw a hole in the window large enough for a man's hand to be put in—I put my arm in—the window looked out into the back yard—the room is on the ground floor, looking on the back—beyond the yard is the canal, and the towing-path on the same side as the house—I took these two keys from the prisoner's box—one of them fits my box—this is the lock of my box (produced)—this plan is correct, and is 1 1/2 inches to the foot.

Cross-examined. No one but the prisoner ever lodged in the same room with me—I never locked the bed-room door—I was out at work all day long—I last saw the watch and the money safe in my box on the Saturday afternoon between 2 and 4 o'clock—from that time till 9 o'clock I was in the back kitchen, which is on the same floor—I may have left my key at home once in two years; I have not done so in the last six mouths—I made the box—I bought the lock at a locksmith's for 3s.—I have paid money away in my room, but I never got money from my box in the presence of a stranger—I left an old gentleman in the house when I went out—he is not here—there is no landlord, there is a landlady.

Re-examined. The prisoner has seen me take money out of my drawer——a Mr. Scott had a room over mine—he was out previous to my going out—he was in when I came back.

ANN JEFFREY . I live at 5, Copperfield Road, which adjoins the prosecutor's—I met the prisoner about 10.40 p.m. outside my door, he passed me—I know him by his living next door—I have lived next door about 12 months—there was a lamp—he was going towards the canal-five minutes afterwards I went in to supper in the kitchen—I can see the window where the burglary took place from my yard—while I was at supper I heard a noise like some one getting in—my son got up and opened the door—I heard a voice like the prisoner's say "All right, Jeffrey"—I know the prisoner's voice—I have heard it many times.

Cross-examined. I swear I have heard the prisoner's voice more than a dozen times—I had spoken to him as a neighbour, just passed the time of day—we have no visitors—sometimes people call my husband "Jeffrey," but not in that yard.

Re-examined. The prisoner's voice is rather rough—I am sure it was his voice.

JOHN JEFFREY . I am the husband of the last witness—I was at supper on 3rd July—I heard somebody throwing stones at the window next door, or something like that—my son opened the door—I heard the prisoner's voice—I have known him ever since he has lodged there, more than two years.

Cross-examined. Most of my conversation with the prisoner was over the wall—I heard him speak last about a month or six weeks after Christmas—I could swear to his voice in seven years' time—I may have spoken to him 100 times—it might have been less.

WILLIAM BEAL (Police Sergeant). I went to this house on Sunday evening, 4th July, about 7 p.m—I found the bottom pane of the back window broken—there was a hole large enough to admit a person's hand, and on the dressing-table inside the window was a cloth or cover, on which I found a footprint—there were no footmarks in the garden, the ground would be too hard, it is used as a playground for children—shortly afterwards I went with the prosecutor to the New Globe public-house, Mile End Road—after the prisoner saw him I called him on one side—I said to him "I am a police officer; were you in the Copperfield Road last night?"—he did "No"—I said "Are you sure?"—he said "Yes, I swear it"—I said "If any one should say you were there, would that be an untruth?"—he said "Yes"—I said "You will be charged with stealing a watch and 11s. in silver from No. 6, Copperfield Road, last evening"—he said "What time was it?"—I said "Between 9 and 11.30 p.m."—he said "I was in Mile End Road with a friend till 10.30, I then went into the New Globe public-house," meaning the same house he had been called from—I said "What compartment were you in?"—he said "The same compartment you have just called me out from"—I said "Were you with any one?"—he said "No, I went in and had a glass of ale and was talking with the manager till about 11.30"—I said "I believe you know me?"—he said "Yes, I how you very well"—I was in plain clothes—I said "I went there about 10.30 p.m., and remained about 20 minutes, and was talking to the manager in that compartment; I know you by sight, if you had been there I must have seen you"—I had not seen him there—I took him to the station—he made no reply when he was charged—the prosecutor gave me these two keys—I showed them to the prisoner—I asked him if they were his—he said "Yes"—one of them unlocks the prosecutor's lock, and the prosecutor's key unlocks the prisoner's lock—I was present when the prosecutor removed the lock from the box, and it has been in my possession ever since—a wall 5 feet high divides Mr. Jeffrey's house from Mr. Coulthard's—there is a lamp 18 yards from Jeffrey's house—it would be 80 yjirds from the front door to the back window by the towing-path, or 58 yards deducting the 18 yards from the door—the New Globe public-house is 4 minutes' walk.

Cross-examined. I know of no conviction against the prisoner—I did not try the key which I found in any of his boxes.

Witness for the Defence.

JAMES CHARTERIS . I am a carpenter, joiner, and staircase builder—I have known the prisoner a little over two years—I never heard of a stain upon his character—I produce the lock of the prisoner's clothes box—I saw it taken off—I have had sufficient experience as a locksmith to know something about locks—I took this lock to a locksmith's to get some keys—I produce six keys which have been used before, and which would show

if they had been tampered with, and every one of those keys passes the prosecutor's box—I could get a hundred that would fit it—it is a common lock—the prosecutor's key unlocks the prisoner's box, and the prisoner's key unlocks the prosecutor's box—Mr. Letchford, a builder, has employed the prisoner—he is unable to be here to-day—I have often spoken with the prisoner—his voice is not gruff.

Cross-examined. These six keys came from Mr. Brought, of Limebom Causeway, a locksmith and bellhanger—I was not called at the police-court.

Re-examined. I came as soon as I heard I was required—the prisoner was not represented by a solicitor at the police-court—I have no interest in the matter beyond a desire to speak the truth.


Reference Number: t18800803-495

495. WILLIAM JONES (76) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Howes Turner, and stealing five boots, eight knives, and a fork, his property.

MR. HEWICK Prosecuted.

FRANK TURNER . I am a clerk, living with my father at Fern Lodge Southgate—on 26th June I was aroused from my sleep about 2.30 a.m. by a noise like somebody breaking in—I called out—not hearing any reply I went downstairs, put my hand on the dresser, and the knife-box had been removed—I went to the kitchen window near the door, and heard footsteps slowly running down the garden at the back of the house—I called my father—I went back upstairs, put something on, came down again, opened the door, and ran down the garden and down the paddock at the back into a road which runs to the bottom of the field—when I had proceeded a short distance I saw the prisoner a little way from the field in the road—I asked him if he had seen any one—he said "No, except a policeman he had passed five minutes before"—I ran after the policeman, and overtook him nearly in front of our house—we ran down the field, and found the prisoner nearly in the same place where I had seen him previously—he was searched—nothing was found on him which would arouse suspicion, and he was let go—this pair of boots is mine—I saw no one else there but the prisoner.

Cross-examined. It took me about three minutes to run round—I came straight from my father's house—when the policeman said "There is nothing on him," I said "I do not think it is the man."

THOMAS HOWES TURNER . On 26th June, about 2.30, I was called out of bed, and went down into the kitchen—the window was raised opening into the yard—the knife-box was gone—I looked for my boots to run after the thief—I could not find them—I had left two pairs in the kitchen—it was dark—I examined the window—it had been broken, and a piece of paper put on some days before—the paper was intact the night previous—it was broken through on this morning—these are my shoes, and this is my boot—I left them in the kitchen—I found the fellow boot still there—I missed some knives out of the box, and a fork.

WILLIAM HOWEL (Policeman Y 37). I am stationed at Southgate—on 26th June, about 4 a.m., by direction of my inspector, I went to Fern Lodge, Southgate—I searched the neighbourhood—I found three pairs of shoes and this boot in a fence in the Green Road.

CALEB SKEATS (Detective Officer). I am stationed at Southgate—on 26th June about 3 a.m. I proceeded, in consequence of information I received to the neighbourhood of Fern Lodge—I went to see the workmen's train off.

and came back, in consequence of what I heard from the last witness—finding some boots in the hedge, I concealed myself in a garden, about 150 yards from the back of the house where the burglary was—a little before this I had seen the prisoner going along the Green Road, close to this hedge where these boots were found—he walked up and down for five or six yards, pulled the twigs of the hedge aside, and looked in three or four times—I saw he was a stranger—I went to him and told him I should take him custody on suspicion of this burglary—I asked him if he had any knives or, boots about him—he said "No"—I searched him, and found this boot between his coat and waistcoat—I took him to the station—I subsequently examined the garden of Fern Lodge—I saw footprints there—several nails were out of the prisoner's boot, and the marks corresponded exactly with it—the prisoner's boot was very wet; so was the bottom of his trousers, and there were pieces of grass on the boot—I searched him at the station, and found a shilling on him—I took his shirt off—there were two moles on his back—he said "That is good enough, Maclntyre knows me well enough; only come out two days ago; I had 10 months last time from Highgate for stealing tools"—he also said he had had seven years, and would as soon be in prison as out.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I didn't know the boots was in the hedge—I did not see you pick it up—I didn't put it there—I was watching, and when you came to the hedge I suspected you would come back and look for them—I had not seen you before.

ALBERT GOODACRE (Inspector Y). I am stationed at Southgate—from information I received I went at 2.45 a m. to Mr. Turner's house—the back kitchen window was open; a pane of glass had been broken; the kitchen was in confusion—some brown paper had been pasted over the outside of a broken pane, and there was a hole through the brown paper sufficiently large to admit the arm—the window catch had been forced back; it could be reached easily by the arm—I saw footprints in the garden walk, which was very wet, as it had been raining the previous day; they were well defined; I covered them up—after the prisoner was charged I took his left boot off; I took it to the garden path, and impressed it by the side of the footprint I had covered up; it corresponded exactly; I noticed particularly the three nails in the heel of the boot—he was charged with stealing the boots and the knives—he said "I know nothing of the knives, those you will find."

Cross-examined. I was in the station when you were brought in—I think it was No. 40 came in with you—he made some such observation as "Here is the old man, I found this boot upon him"—I do not think that remark was answered—the other officer recognised you as the man he had searched and found nothing on—I am not aware that I silenced him; it would be my duty to do so if he was talking while a prisoner was there—No. 40 is not here—you said "I know nothing of the knives, you will find them"—I think those were the words, and not "They will find them for anything I know about them"—there were lots of marks made by your running in the garden walk—I took the measure of your boot, and the measure of the impression of some one's boot at the back of the house, and put it in the same print afterwards, and the nails fitted exactly.

Prisoner's Defence. I had come from Edmonton on my way to Barnet. I could get no lodging, and found shelter in that road, where I must have

slept for some time. I then went down the lane to search for running water, and saw two policemen; they said nothing to me. The young gentleman asked me if I saw anybody. I said "No." He asked if I knew where he could find a policeman, and I said "You will find two at the top of the lane." I picked up this boot, thinking it would fetch me a few halfpence I moved the bush about to reach it. I was taken into custody. There were four persons there, and the policeman never tried their shoes or his own. You will find a similarity in the nailing of boots in any shop, and I think it is cruel that a man should be convicted on this evidence. I saw two policemen at the top of the road, and if I was there I could not be at the prosecutors house, but they have taken care to keep that man back.


He also PLEADED GUILTY** To a conviction in August, 1879.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Friday, August 6th, 1880.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-496

496. ANN FARNWELL (35) , Feloniously setting fire to two beds, the property of Owen Garwood.

MR. RIBTON Prosecuted.

OWEN GARWOOD . I live at 45, Bread Street, Mile End, and am a drysalter—I lived with the prisoner for about 12 years—about 8.15 on the 19th July I got home and found in the kitchen two straw beds which had been brought down from an upper room with a newspaper between them—one-twelfth part was burnt, and the ticking was partly burnt—my impression is the fire had been put out—the prisoner was in the pawage—I asked her what she had done that for, and she said she intended to burn the stock and wished she had done so—the stock consisted of sauces and Seidlitz powders and various goods which I had manufactured—she had been drinking—I sent for a constable—there was no one else in the house, I believe.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was at home several times in the course of the day—the newspaper had burnt, as the straw had burnt.

By the COURT. There had been continual altercations for years, and she threatened to take my life, and said she would put a knife through my b—guts—I have eight children by her; she attends to them what she is sober, and is a good mother—the drinking has been going on five or sir years; during that time I have lived at 13 or 14 different places, and have had ejectment after ejectment in consequence of her drinking—I allow her a certain amount of money to keep the house, and when that is expended if she chooses to drink she pawns things—it is true that she was a week without money, and had to go into the workhouse and take her dead baby—before it died I was laid up with bronchitis, and the child had taken bronchitis at the same time, and was lying in the same room as myself—I dare not trust her with money—I had a cheque sent to me which I went with to a public-house to get changed, and when I came back I found she had removed the child from her cot from the warm room, and was lying in a cold room—she resisted me, and would not allow the child to be taken back into the warm room—I went for the police, and they said they could not interfere—I was almost in a dying state at the time, but I managed to crawlas far as the relieving officer's—it was then about 11 o'clock atnight—he said "I cannot do anything now, I will come down to your place to-morrow

morning at 9 o'clock"—she expressed herself in gross language to me—it is not true that anybody left my house enceinte by me—I did not give the prisoner in custody so that I should get rid of her; I did not want to get rid of her if she went on well—it was my immediate object to get rid of her—I had this agreement drawn out for a separation, but she begged and entreated of me not to separate from me—when I first made her acquaintance I believe she had an allowance from her father-in-law—she was a widow—her husband, I believe, was a clerk at a stone merchant's.

The Prisoner. My father was a solicitor, and my husband was an architect and surveyor—my father-in-law allowed me 10s. a week until I lived with the prosecutor.

By the COURT. The prisoner got up early on the morning in question and got the children off to a school-treat—after they were gone she asked me for some money, and I think I said I had not got any to give her—I did not go out and come back in the middle of the day and ask what there was for dinner; I came in about 4.30, and said, "I have had no dinner, will you get the tea ready; I shall be back Again presently"—I did not say I could not eat what was left from the Sunday—she said that I had no right to leave her night after night—I did not say to her, "Ah, young lady, I will put you somewhere, where you will not be able to annoy me or anybody else"—I have said I would put an end to her watching me—I spend my evening in a public-house because I cannot spend them at home—she was always jealous—I did not give her cause—she had a room and furniture in it when I first lived with her—she did not provide for me—there was a seizure of goods, but I believe none of hers were taken.

HENRY WIGGINS (Policeman K 455). I was called by Garwood, and found two straw beds in the kitchen and this newspaper (produced)—some of the straw was burnt, about one-twelfth—there should be about 28lb. in a truss—I told the prisoner I should take her into custody for attempting to set fire to the premises—she said, "I done it, and I intended to burn the stock"—she had been drinking a little, but knew what she was about.

Cross-examined. I cannot tell how I know that one-twelfth part was burnt.


For Cases tried in New Court, Friday, see Surrey Cases.

THIRD COURT.—Friday, August 6, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Sergeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-497

497. JOHN MOORE** (28) PLEADED GUILTY to burglary in the dwelling-house of Walter Rogers, and stealing a vase, a basket, and other goods, and to a previous conviction of felony.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-498

498. EDWARD ARNOLD (25) to forging and uttering a receipt for 432 Pairs of boots, the property of John Vanden Berg , and to a previous conviction of felony.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-499

499. JAMES KEIGHTLEY (28), HANNAH KEIGHTLEY (22), SARAH BENNETT (53), RICHARD WILLIAM WOOD (28), MARY MARTHA WOOD (21), and BENJAMIN CHARLES NORRIS , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Selloff Seligmann, and stealing 84 watches and other goods his property.

MR. LILLET Prosecuted.

SELLOFF SELIGMANN . I live at No. 4, Fire Elms Terrace, Lower Clapton—I am a watchmaker and jeweller—on the 25th of June I went to bed about 11.30—the place was then all secure—I had shut it up at 10 o'clock—my stock of watches and jewellery was in the shop window—on coming down a little before 8 in the morning I found the house had been brokes into from the back premises—the whole of my stock of watches were gone, the articles mentioned in the Indictment as well as others—84 watches, 30 1/2 dozen rings, 18 or 20 chains, and six or eight brooches, worth about 300l.—a quantity of matches were scattered about the floor of the parlour and some in the case which was blackened by the smoke—the gas had been turned on—the police inspector came about 9 o'clock—portions of my missing property have from time to time been shown to me.

Cross-examined by James Keightley. I stated 30 chains in my deposition—that is correct—I can speak to 30.

BENJAMIN BISHOP (Police Inspector N). I received information of the burglary on 26th June, a little before 9 a.m.—I went and examined the premises—I found an entry had been effected at the rear by pushing back the catch of the window, lowering the top sash, and climbing over the shutters through a space between the top of the window and the shatters of about a foot, the front shop was then open without hindrance—the shop window had evidently been ransacked, and remains of matches were lying about on the floor—the gas had been turned on—some jewellery was left, but it had been disturbed.

EDWARD BROOKS . I am manager for W. Smith, pawnbroker, of High Street, Kingsland—on the 2nd July James Keightley brought a watch to pawn—I had received a list of the stolen property—I referred to it—I said to Keightley, "Does it belong to you?"—he said, "Yes, I bought it in the 'Lane' on Sunday morning. I want some money to go to Alexandra Park Baces"—I told my boy to bring my hat—the prisoner rushed from the shop down a narrow passage which leads to the boxes—I followed him and caught him at the bottom of the court—we struggled for a few minutes and he knocked me down, and he would have got away but for the assistance of Mr. Woodall, the jewellery salesman—a policeman named Pigg came up and I gave the prisoner into custody, also a portion of the stolen property—this is the watch—I kept it till the prisoner was charged at the station—I also produce a gold watch pledged on the 1st July by Mary Wood for 1l.—this is the duplicate.

Cross-examined by James Keightley. The second young man at the counter took the watch from you and brought it to me, and I did not like your appearance, and so referred to the list and found it corresponded with the missing one.

GEORGE PIGG (Policeman M 410). I was in High Street, Kingsland, going on duty about 1.30 on 2nd July—I saw a mob outside Mr. Smith's shop—Mr. Brooks gave Keightley into my custody for attempting to pawn a stolen watch—I conveyed the prisoner to the Dalston Lane station—on the way he said, "I bought the watch cheap on the way to Petticoat Lane, I shall not tell you who the man is if I get 20 years for it"—I searched him and found this pawn ticket on him, and a gold watchkey, a key of a box, and a pocket-knife.

THOMAS BROCKWELL (Policeman N 11). I was on duty at Dalston lane Police-station at 1.50 when James Keightley was brought in by Pigg—I

saw him fumbling his hand in his pocket and I asked him to take it out——he then handed me five silver watches and one gold one, a gold ring, and a gold key (produced)—I said, "How came you possessed of those things?"—he said, "I bought them in Petticoat Lane, I gave 10s. each for the silver watches and 15s. for the gold ones"—I then found that they corresponded with the property mentioned in the charge—he gave me his address as "James Keightley, 4, Woolpack Place, Morning lane, Hackney"—I took him to Hackney Police-station—I then proceeded with Detective Fletcher to 4, Woolpack Place, Hackney—before I reached it I saw Richard Wood came out of No. 4 and run up Thomas Street—I ran into the house and went upstairs to the back room on the first floor—I saw Sarah Bennett with a small brown paper parcel in her hand, she threw the parcel down in a corner of the room, at the same time I saw Hannah Keightley half-way through the back window—she was placing this small box (produced) in a shed at the rear of the house under the window—I made this list shortly afterwards—the brown paper parcel contained two gold Alberts, one gold brooch—the box contained several articles of jewellery, 5l. 15s. 7 1/2 d.—I said to the two women, "How came you possessed of these things and this money?"—Hannah Keightley said, "The chains and the jewellery were brought home by my cousin William Austin and my husband, and the money was brought home by my cousin William Austin and my husband, it it part of the proceeds of pledging some watches and chains"—I took them to the station and charged them—the same evening about 6.40, from information I received, I went to 15 1/2, Temple Street, Dalston—I there took Mary Martha Wood into custody—I told her she would be charged with others in custody for breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Selloff Seligmann—the made no reply.

Cross-examined by R. W. Wood. I found some pawn tickets—I went to the pawn shops and found the things pledged, some tools belonged to you—I also found the certificate of your marriage to Mary Martha Wood seven years ago.

Re-examined. Since the prisoners were committed for trial I have recovered three other rings (two wedding rings and one signet ring) part of the stolen property, pledged in the names of Robert Wood, John Harwood, or Marwood, of Lansdowne Road, on the 29th June.

JAMES FLETCHER (Detective N). About 2.30 p.m. on 2nd July I was in company with the last witness on my way to Woolpack Place—I saw Richard Wood come out of No. 4—I had known the prisoners previously and knew he did not reside there—he ran down Thomas Street—I followed him and caught him—I said, "What are you running away for?"—he said, "I have been to give them the tip for them to give up the property, Jim is in trouble"—I said, "I shall take you into custody for being concerned in the burglary committed on the night of the 24th at No. 4, Five Elms Terrace, Lower Clapton"—he replied, "The Lord strike me blind, I never committed the burglary"—I brought him back to No. 4—I went into the first-floor back room of that house, after I had handed Wood over to a constable in the wash-house—I saw Sergeant Brockwell, Bennett, and Mrs. Keightley—the sergeant handed me this small box—it felt heavy—I said to Mrs. Keightley, "What does this contain? there is some jewellery in it and money"—she said, "My husband and my cousin have been out pledging, the contents of that box are the proceeds of what they have been pledging"—I said to Mrs. Bennett, "I shall take

you into custody for being concerned in the burglary at No. 4, Five Elms Terrace, Lower Clapton"—she made no reply—she is married—I know her husband—we took the prisoners to Hackney Police-station—after they were all charged—James Keightley said, "I pledged one watch at Mr. Pocock's in Essex Street, Islington, for 8s. I think it was"—I went there and found the watch—after the prisoners were remanded at Worship Street on the 3rd I received a message and went and saw Richard Wood—he said, "On the 29th I went out with a man named Austin, I believe he went into Mr. Cotton's, a pawnbroker, in the Hackney Road, and pledged a watch, then we continued on into Church Fields, Spitalfields, and I pledged a gold ring there"—I went there and found it correct—"and then we pledged all along the Whitechapel Road, I left of at Lusby's."

Cross-examined by R. W. Wood. You said something about not being able to get a pair of boots at Hackney, but you could get a better pair about Shoreditch, and that Austin gave you 4s.

Re-examined. I do not know where Austin is—I should like to know—I have made inquiries and cannot find him.

GEORGE CHAPMAN (Detective N). On the 10th July Norris was pointal out to me at Worship Street Police-court by the witness Laskey when this case was being investigated—I took him to the rear of the Court and told him the charge—he said, "I have done no burglary," or, "I know nothing about it"—the witness Chester picked him out as being the man that pledged the watch in Gray's Inn Road—he gave his address as 24 Quaker Street, Spitalfields.

WILLIAM GARDNER . I am assistant to Mr. Cotton, pawnbroker, of 81, Hackney Road—I produce a Geneva watch pledged with me on tie 29th June in the name of James Smith, of 2, Birdcage Walk.

FREDERICK FREWER . I am assistant to Mr. Telford, 88, High Street, Whitechapel—I produce a silver hunting watch pawned on the 22nd June, in the name of James Smith, of 10, Hare Street, Bethnal Green.

JOSEPH JONES, JUN . I am employed by Joseph Jones, of 31, Church Street, Spitalfields, pawnbroker—I produce a signet ring pledged on the 29th June with me by the prisoner, Richard Wood, of 47, Lansdown Road.

Cross-examined by R. W. Wood. I recollect your name as a man who worked in my father's conservatory and married a neighbour's servant.

SAMUEL DUNN . I live at 5, Elmer Cottage, Clarence Road, Lower Clapton—I am a scaffolder and labourer—James Keightley married my wife's sister—I pawned a ring for him on 28th June at Mr. Carter's Mare Street, Hackney, for 1s. 6d.—he told me to ask 3s.—I gave him the money—he waited outside.

Cross-examined by Keightley. Wood, you, and I went to see Mr. Pulles about some work.

FREDERICK HAWKINS . I am assistant to Mr. Carter, pawnbroker, Mare Street, Hackney Road—I produce the ring Dunn pledged on 28th June.

WILLIAM LASKEY . I am assistant to Mr. Waller, pawnbroker, 258, Hackney Road—I produce a silver watch pledged by Norris on 26th June, in the name of James Brown, of 4, Haro Street, Bethnal Green; also a gold watch pawned on 29th June, in the name of John Cooper, of 8, Glo'ster Street.

FRANCIS CHESTER . I am assistant to Mr. Robert Masters, pawnbroker,

of 315, Gray's Inn Road—I produce a silver watch pledged on the 1st July by Norris in the name of James Smith, of 42, Wilstead Street—I (identified Norris at Worship Street from seven or eight persons.

Cross-examined by Norris. I would not swear positively, but I believe you to be the man.

GEORGE CHAPMAN (Re-examined). Norris was picked out of six persons without the slightest hesitation.

WILLIAM LASKEY (Re-examined). I have no doubt as to Norris.

GEORGE PEARSON . I am assistant to Mr. Tilley, pawnbroker, of 149, Mile End Road—I produce a gold watch pledged on the 30th June by a person in the name of James Cooper, of 67, White Horse Lane.

GEORGE PIGE . I am a pawnbroker, of 331, Cambridge Road, Bethnal Green—I produce a silver Geneva watch pawned on the 30th June for 10s. by a man in the name of John Cooper, of 10, North Street, Bethnal Green—I believe it was Keightley.

HENRY SPICKNELL . I am assistant to Mr. George John Pocock, pawnbroker, of 135, Essex Road, Islington—I produce a silver watch pledged by a man in the name of John Smith on the 1st July—I believe I took it in.

GEORGE LAWRENCE . I am assistant to Mr. Lawrence, pawnbroker, of 49, Beach Street, Barbican—I produce a silver Geneva pawned on the 29th June in the name of John Smith, of 63, Noble Street, City.

The Prisoners' Statements before the Magistrate. James Keightley says: "On the morning before I was locked up I had nine watches, two Albert chains, a silver guard, and two or three rings. They were given to me by a man to pledge for him. I asked him whether they were all right. He said 'Yes,' and he would give me a few shillings for doing it. I pawned one of the watches at King's Cross, the other one in Essex Road, and the two chains I left at home, and a brooch and a big ring in a box where my money was in. I had two gold keys." Hannah Keightley says: "My husband told me he had saved the money up that was in the box." Richrd W. Wood said: "I was standing outside the Prince of Wales waiting for a man I used to work for. There were two or three standing round. This chap came up and made the remark how bad my boots were. He said, 'If you come home I will give you a better pair than that.' I said, 'All right.' When I got home he said some one had burned them, And he said, 'If you pay me on Saturday I will lend you 4s.' He pulled out a gold watch and said,' If you like to pawn that I will lend you 4s.' I went home and told my wife, and gave my wife the watch to pawn. He gave me 4s. I gave my wife 1s. and bought a pair of boots for 2s. 9d. He gave me this ring. I went and pawned it I gave my right name and address. I came back to Hackney, sat down to see this man, and went home to my wife." Mary M. Wood said: "I pawned the watch. I do not bow the man's name." Benjamin C. Norris said: "I am innocent."

SELOFF SELIOMANN (Re-examined). All these articles produced are mine—they were safe in my shop the night before the robbery.

Witness for Norris.

JOHN FAIRWEATHER . On the 22nd June you were at work with me at Mr. Liddall's from 8.30 a.m. till 7.15 p.m.—you were with me cutting chaff till 1 o'clock, and in the King's Arms with me till 7.15 p.m.—you were with no one else except the man at Foster's—you have worked for the firm six or seven years as odd carman.

Cross-examined. We were working at Mr. Samuel Liddall's, 1, Queen Street, Brick Lane, Spitalfields—we worked at a wheel-box cutting chaff—we might have had a drop once or twice, but Norris did not leave me—we had been busy all the week, and so had the chaff to cut—I cannot say how long Norris worked straight off—he worked while any of the others were ill—he is paid by the job; the regular men are paid so much a week.

James Keightley. I have been at work two years at the station.

Richard Wm. Wood. I pawned the watch innocently to do me good. I had been laid up for five months, and had to pawn my tools, and the man I met made a dupe of me. I was too ill to work or I should not have met him. I never had a guilty knowledge. I never entered Keightley's door, the police shoved me in.

Norris. I am innocent—I know nothing about it.

Sarah Bennett. I am innocent—I was at work all the week at a gentleman's house washing.

JAMES KEIGHTLEY— GUILTY of receiving— Five Years' Penal Servitude. SARAH BENNETT— GUILTY of receiving— Six Months' Imprisonment. RICHARD WILLIAM WOOD— GUILTY of receiving— Nine Months' Imprisonment. HANNAH KEIGHTLEY, MARY WOOD, and NORRIS— NOT GUILTY .

Reference Number: t18800803-500

500. ALFRED CASPER (23) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Arnold Schlaefli an order for 250l. and money to that amount, with intent to cheat and defraud.

MR. A. B. KELLY Prosecuted; MESSRS. BESLEY and THORINCOLE Defended.

The JURY, being unable to agree, were discharged without a verdict.

NEW COURT.—Saturday, August 7th, 1880.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18800803-501

501. ROBERT MORTON (32) , Stealing 21 dozen, 6 dozen, and 6 dozen of umbrellas, the property of Jesse Davidson Barker.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted; MR. GRAIN Defended.

JOHN MILLER, JUN . I am salesman to the firm of Jesse Davidson Barker, and have been acting for them in this matter—I know the prisoner's writing—this letter contains the terms of the arrangement between my firm and the prisoner—the prisoner had a partner named Pretty in 1877—this is the prisoner's signature; he ceased to be Pretty's partner at the end of 1878, and in December, 1879, we received this stock list in the prisoner's writing, showing that he had 571 dozen umbrellas in stock—with a very trifling difference that is correct—this document is in the prisoner's writing: "May 30, 1879. Please let bearer have 15s. on half-dozen umbrellas, and oblige G. A. W. Morton"—Messrs. Smith and Dimond are pawnbrokers of Newgate Street, and we have obtained several umbrellas from them—in consequence of instructions I came to London on April 19—this letter of April 30, 1879, is in Morton's writing, and is an order to Mr. Barker for 200 dozen umbrellas—this letter of 3rd September, 1879, is in the prisoner's writing; he says, "Stock wanted at once," and in this letter of September 6 he says, "Hope to see more stock next week, now is the time"—on 22nd September he writes, "I am working your

goods well just now"—I saw him on 21st April and he produced a bundle containing a number of pawn-tickets, and said that it was no use hiding it longer, he would make a clean breast of it—I asked him how he could do such a thing—he said that he was to blame, it was his own extravagance, and he had spent the money—I asked if he had disposed of any other goods; he said "I have, to job buyers and others," and that he had received the money and spent it—I said that I should telegraph to J. D. Barker—this letter of 22nd April is in his writing, in which he says that he cannot find words sufficient to express his sorrow—on 1st May I took out a summons at the Mansion House, returnable on the 10th—he did not appear, and I obtained a warrant, upon which he was brought up on the 24th, and remanded till 29th July—the 157 dozen pawn tickets he gave me represented 118l.—100 dozen had been pawned up to December 13, 1879, and partly by special contract—in consequence of his not appearing I redeemed about 60l. worth, but could not redeem more as the tickets had expired—the manager or I had the whole of the pawn tickets, but we cannot find them.

Cross-examined. Mr. Barker is not here—I have invoiced goods direct to Pretty and Morton, but "Stock" has always been written on the invoices—I never made an cut sale to them—they never made a purchase of me which was charged against the commission account—they have not made direct purchases from me—I never consigned goods to any place in England for sale by auction, nor were any sold by auction at my direction—I have sent goods abroad for sale, but do not know how they were sold—umbrellas do not depreciate in value for a year—Mr. Pretty retired in 1878, and Morton went on; besides being our agents. they were independent merchants, excepting in umbrellas—they could not retain our agency and have another—they could sell to wholesale houses only—I cannot say what discretion they had—you will find the terms of the contract there—the prisoner frankly told me what he had done, but I do not think I made any remark, I only asked why he could dispose of goods in that way—I was on very good terms with him—I went and had some refreshment with him—I said that he could not starve though he had committed a breach of morals and a breach of contract—I had a statement with me, which I corrected by his duplicate books, showing the account between him and the firm—I did not take stock, I assume that he had disposed of 400l. odd—there is no ledger account—I did not draw up the account debiting him with the value of the goods which he has not accounted for by regular sales—Mr. Barker has only been up to town once since Mr. Pretty retired.

Re-examined. After the prisoner gave me the pawn tickets I told him that I must communicate with Mr. Barker, which I did that day or the next—I put myself in the hands of the solicitors, and took what course they thought right—the prisoner was not authorised to pledge goods in any way.

ROBERT OUTRAM (Detective Officer). A warrant was placed in my hands on 10th May, upon which I took the prisoner on 23rd July, about 11 p.m., at 8, Brunswick Road, Tottenham.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

THIRD COURT.—Saturday, 7th, and

NEW COURT.—Monday, 9th August, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-502

502. ROBERT COLLIER (36) , Unlawfully conspiring with others to obtain money by false pretences from Robert Jones and others.

MESSRS. POLAND and MEAD Prosecuted; MR. GRAIN Defended.

JAMES GRAHAM CHURCHER . I am a hatter and occupy premises at 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill—I am the landlord—on the 15th November I let one room on third door to a person named Snelling, for 26l. a year, to be paid quarterly—a day or two subsequently I saw Snelling with a younger man, said to be his son, who I have not seen since—they remained in occupation of the room till the 15th of December—I never received any rent—on the door posts was written up "Messrs. E. J. Snelling and Son, Stock and Share Brokers."

JOHN MANSTEAD . I live at 62, Oxford Gardens, Notting Hill—in 1876 I carried on business at York—in December I saw an advertisement about profitable investments in a local paper—after reading it I wrote to the address given for a copy of the pamphlet produced—I received a copy; also some investment forms—on the 4th December I wrote a letter, enclosing banker's draft on Williams Deacon for 200l., and a filled-up form—I kept a copy of my letter—on 6th December I received acknowledgment of draft, upon which I sent a Pennsylvanian bond for 1,000 dollars—I received some Hungarian bonds—on the 8th December I sent a cheque for 16l. 4s.—I stopped payment of the cheque immediately after I sent it—beyond the Hungarian bonds I never received any consideration—I parted with my property in consequence of the representations in the pamphlet and the advertisement in the newspaper.

ENOCH BROAD . I live at 4, Talbot Road, Stafford—in November or December, 1876, I saw the advertisement produced as to investments, and in consequence wrote for the pamphlet referred to in it, to Messrs. Snelling and Son—I received the pamphlet, read it, and afterwards filled up a form which I had received with the pamphlet and sent it with a 50l. note, No. 49440, to be invested by Snelling and Co.—these other letters produced are further invitations to invest, and my replies—I was induced to part with my 50l. by the representations in the pamphlet—I have not received anything in exchange for my 50l.

ROBERT JONES . I live at 60, Dale Street, Liverpool—I am a gunsmith—in November, 1876, I saw Snelling and Son's advertisement in the Liverpool Mercury—I wrote for a pamphlet and received one on 28th November—I sent a 5l. note to be invested in "Single Privilege"—also on 30th November a 10l. and a 5l. note, in consequence of a letter I received asking me to increase my investment—these are the notes for 20l. altogether which I sent, believing the statements in the pamphlet (The pamphlet stated that Snelling and Son were stock and share brokers, that they had unusual advantages to afford to investors, and gave an account of stocks.)

HENRY CAREY WADD . I am assistant clerk in the Town Clerk's office of the City of London—I produce a register of the sworn brokers of the City of London—I have searched through the years 1876 and 1877—I find no persons named Edward John Snelling and Son entered there as sworn brokers.

Cross-examined. It is not an uncommon thing to find persons carrying on business as brokers without being sworn.

Re-examined. They have not been allowed to do so for any length of time—the transaction is not good—the persons who attempt it are under a penalty.

GEORGE FRISBY . I am chief clerk in the Secretary's office of the Stock Exchange—during November and December, 1876, no persons named Snelling and Son were members of the Stock Exchange.

Cross-examined. A large number of persons carry on Stock Exchange transactions who are not members of the Stock Exchange—they were advertising about that time that they were in a position to carry on speculative transactions—I have no knowledge how many years they continued to have offices in London.

Re-examined. A person who is not a member can deal with a stock jobber by calling him outside.

STEPHEN BULL . I am a bootmaker, of 60, King William Street—in November and December, 1876, no persons named E. J. Snelling and Son occupied any part of my premises, nor were they authorised to give that address in this pamphlet. (The above address, and the following references me contained in the pamphlet.)

JOHN CHARLES MANN . I am a clerk at the head office of the Union Bank of London—E. J. Snelling and Son had no account at our bank or branches in November and December, 1876.

Cross-examined. I speak of my own knowledge as to the branches.

HENRY CLIFT . I am a dairyman, of 5, Hare Street, Piccadilly—I lived there in March, 1875—no "Rev. J. O. Forbes" lived there at any time, nor was authorised to use that address.

EDWARD THOMAS BOWER . I am manager to Messrs. Lavery and Co., at the Bodega, Imperial Arcade—no part of the premises were occupied by Alfred James Coutts, an accountant, in January, 1876—we have had the shop and part of the premises five or six years—I have not known such a person during that time.

ARTHUR BURFORD . I lived at No. 2, Lillington Street, Pimlico, or South Belgravia, for 13 years till August 12th last year—F. H. Johnston never lived there—no person of that name was authorised to use that address in February, 1875—a Mr. Chapman engaged a room there in February or March, 1875, at 10s. a week—the prisoner drove up there once with Chapman with some stationery.

Cross-examined. I was at the Mansion House as a witness three or four weeks ago—Detective Mitchell first came to me about it—Chapman only had the room one day—they came on a Wednesday and went away on Thursday—I did not like the stationery coming—I had known Chapman for years—I knew Collier by sight.

Re-examined. Chapman lodged at my house several weeks—I told them I hoped nothing would be carried on in my place that was not straightforward, and when I came home next day everything was taken away, to my surprise—I had had no reason to be suspicious of Chapman previous to that—he was a friend of mine—nothing was communicated to me in reference to this matter till this year.

WILLIAM OLDHAMPSTEAD (City Detective Officer). On the 9th December, 1876, I was set to watch 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill, in company with William Simmons, another detective—I saw that offices were occupied by

"E. J. Snelling and Co."—on the 11th December I was there at 11 am—I saw a man named Chapman (who was convicted of a similar charge to this at this Court, and sent to 18 months' imprisonment, in November, 1878) go into the office—he stayed about ten minutes—on coming out Simmons and I followed him to several money changers, and then to Moorgate Street—at the Globe public-house, at the corner of Fore Street and Moorgate Street, I saw the prisoner take hold of Chapman's arm, and they walked together up Fore Street—they conversed together for about 10 minutes—they then returned and went into the Globe public-house together—they remained a short time, came out and went up Moorgate Street together in conversation—Chapman took a cab—we followed him—I lost sight of the prisoner—on 12th December, 1876, I was again watching at Fish Street Hill with Simmons—a brougham was driven up to the door—the prisoner got out and went upstairs—he remained about a quarter of an hour—he then got in the brougham again and drove off.

Cross-examined. I am often engaged in the City—it is not unusual to see a brougham drive up—two persons were charged at the Mansion House in 1876, with Chapman, and discharged—an action was subsequently brought against the police.

WILLIAM SIMMONS . I am a superannuated City Police-constable—in December, 1876, I was with Oldhampstead watching Fish Street Hill—on 9th December I saw Collier, Chapman (who was afterwards convicted), and another person at 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill—I saw them go into several public-houses, at last they came to the European public-house, opposite the Mansion House—I pointed Collier out to Sergeant Smith—on the 11th December I was watching with Oldhampstead about 10 a.m.—I saw Chapman go in 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill, and saw him leave—I followed him to various money changers in the City—ultimately he came to the crossing in Lombard Street, where he met the prisoner—they went in the office and came out again one after the other—Oldhampstead followed Chapman—I saw Chapman go to the Continental Bank in Lombard Street—he passed some papers over to a man behind the counter—he received some notes and gold—then he came out, and in about 20 minutes met the prisoner at the corner of Lombard Street a second time—they went on in conversation together to Moorgate Street and separated, the prisoner went towards Moorgate Street railway station—Chapman got into a cab and I followed him to other money changers and various places in the West End—on the 12th December I was again watching 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill, about 10 a.m. with Oldhampstead—I saw the prisoner get out of a brougham and go into 1 and 2—he remained about a quarter of an hour, came out, got in the brougham, and drove away.

Cross-examined. I have given the same evidence before—I did not mention Collier's name then—Riches was also arrested on 15th December, 1876—I don't know the date of Chapman's arrest—I did not know Chapman's name in 1876—I had general instructions to watch—I and Oldhampstead watched the two persons who were discharged go into the Uxbridge Road branch of the South Western Bank at Shepherd's Bush—they presented a cheque on Mr. Gortz—I was examined about that with the other detectives—I have not seen the witnesses in this case—I have left the force.

Re-examined. Riches was convicted—on 2nd January, 1877, a warrant was issued for Collier's apprehension.

WILLIAM SMITH . I was a City detective, but am superannuated—in December, 1876, complaints were made to me in reference to fish Street Hill—I set Oldhampstead, Simmons, and others to watch—on the 9th December, 1876, Simmons spoke to me, and I went with him to the European public-house—he pointed out the prisoner to me, who was sitting in a chair talking to another man also sitting down—on 15th December, 1876, between 8 and 9 a.m., I went to 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill, to a room on the third floor—I there found 32 letters, delivered by that morning's post—I marked 14 of them—I took them away—some of them contained cheques and post-office orders; others were applications for the pamphlet, others asking for remittances—I marked the remaining 18 letters with my initials and took them back to the office. (An extract from the pamphlet was read to the effect that the office possessed a special telegraph wire, and that hundreds of testimonials could be seen there.) The office was a room on the third floor; there was no telegraphic communication with it—I did not see any testimonials—I saw 200 or 300 provincial newspapers; they contained similar advertisements to the one produced (advertising the pamphlet of "advice to investors")—there were two books only, with no entries—I found the letter from Mr. Manstead as to the 16l. 8s. 6d.—I saw Riches the same day; upon him were the 18 letters I had marked—I also saw the two persons who were discharged; I read a letter found upon one of them—on the 31st December, 1876, I went with Sergeant Mitchell to 9, Porteous Road—we searched some rooms pointed out to us by Mrs. Lane; I found 500 envelopes in the back bedroom similar to this, with "Unitas et vis" and the device on them of two boys holding a purse—in a capboard I found some clothes hanging up—out of one of the pockets Mitchell in my presence took these five documents. (These were receipts for registered letters, one having been sent to Manstead, and another to the Manager of the London and South-Western Bank, Shepherd's Bush.) I also produce the die.

Cross-examined. I only saw Collier once; I did not then know his name—Mr. Churchill occupies the ground floor of 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill as a hatter—there are three floors of offices, about three offices on each floor—Collier is called Collier alias Riches in the warrant because we found an account had been opened at the Birkbeck Bank in the name of George Riches for the passing of crossed cheques, and the description answered to that of Collier—this man absconded from Witney Villa—the two persons who were discharged were not watched—they were discharged after several remands—they brought an action against me, but I do not think they got the advantage.

Re examined. I got a description of George Riches from the Birkbeck Bank—from the description I thought he might be the man I saw in the European—when the warrant was issued I discovered that Collier had introduced Gortz to the London and South-Western Bank—hefore and after I had the warrant I endeavoured to arrest the person named Collier in various parts of the country and at Shepherd's Bush—his address was Witney Villa, Avenue Road; we discovered that address about the 16th or 17th December.

JOHN RICHES . I am a printer—in November, 1876, I resided at High Street, Acton, and carried on business there as a printer—a person named Walters gave me instructions to print the pamphlet produced—the prisoner

was present and paid the money—he heard it read over in the front room at my office upstairs—I told them I must have some money to go on with—the prisoner brought me a cheque for 3l. on account—I received two other cheques from Collier, I think for 4l. each; they were drawn by Collier upon the London and South-Western Bank, Shepherd's Bush branch—I also got this lithographic circular (produced) printed for them—Walters gave the order; he understood that department (circulars of investments and acknowledgments of receipts)—I also provided these envelopes, and procured the die from Walters's instructions—I never saw Collier till he brought the first cheque—I delivered the pamphlets and the stationery at 29, Burton Crescent; I went there seven or eight times; it is close to the Midland Railway; I remained there half an hour or an hour—I saw Collier, Walters, Chapman, and Mr. Williams—I helped to fold up the circulars and letters, and I took them to the post very often—they were put into envelopes similar to this produced—they were addressed before I got there—the prisoner helped; we all helped—I also delivered the circulars and packets of 500 pamphlets to 9, Porteous Road three or four times—the circulars used to go of an evening—I saw Collier there, but not every time; he was in the first floor front room—Mr. Walters and Mr. Chapman were also there; they used to get things ready for me to take to the post—I knew then where Collier lived; I addressed stationery to him—my son took it to Witney Villa, Shepherd's Bush—when Walters was in Ireland I said I wanted some money, and Walters gave me 30s. on account of printing—my son was employed as office boy at Fish Street Hill; he was engaged at Acton on a Saturday; the prisoner was present—I said his dress was not good enough, and Collier gave him a guinea to get some things—I took him on the Monday; I saw Chapman, Williams, and Collier, I am not certain whether Walters was there—Chapman told my son what to do—Collier was present, he stood at the table—one of them made the remark "There's the little boy," or something like it—on the 15th December I was apprehended—when I took the boy was the first time I went to Fish Street Hill—I went three times afterwards to fetch letters—the third time I was fetching the letters I was apprehended—I took the letters at first to some one at King's Cross Station, and twice to Burton Crescent—I did not open the account at the Birkbeck Bank, and do not know where it is exactly—I received letters addressed to George Riches, High Street, Acton—I delivered them with the others at Burton Crescent; I never opened them; Walters asked me to receive them—they wanted me to be advertising agent—the cheque drawn by George Riches is not my signature—before I went to High Street, Acton, I lived at 76, King Street West, Hammersmith—I did not when I printed the pamphlet know that my name and the address were used as a testimonial in it—I never authorised it to be written—I never received 650l. from Snelling and Son previous to March, 1875; I was never so foolish as to send them 50l. to invest—when I saw the statement in the pamphlet I spoke to Walters about it—I do not think the prisoner was present—I do not think they read the whole pamphlet in my presence.

Cross-examined. All I had to do was the printing and to receive the money for it—I carried on my business at Acton till the lawyers took everything—Witney Villas runs into Goldhawk Road—I believe Walters went by the name of Simpson; he told me to ask for Simpson—I had

known him for years—he kept a public-house in Red Lion Street, Holborn—I knew him then as Walters through doing the printing for the "Turf Investor"—I was not communicated with before I received my subpoena to come here—Mr. Rowney, of Whetstone Park, did the lithography—one of the cheques I got from Collier I cashed, the others I circulated—I first took orders for printing about November 19th, when I took orders for the pamphlet—the pamphlets were only in hand a few days.

Re-examined. Collier called Walters Bill—I believe "Gortz" was Walters—I never saw a Mr. Gortz—I could not say who was Snelling—Mr. George was a clerk—I knew him as George Chapman.

JOHN RICHES, JUN . The last witness is my father—in November, 1876, he took me to 1 and 2, Fish Street Hill—I saw four men in a room on the third floor; Mr. Chapman was one; I also knew him as Mr. George—I saw the prisoner once or twice; I did not know his name—I saw Mr. Simpson; I knew him as Mr. Walters—I did not know the fourth man—I was engaged at 10s. a week as office boy in the prisoner's presence—I was there three weeks—I did not hear the conversation between them—I took some printing to Witney Villa before I was office boy; it was addressed to Mr. Collier—I gave it to Mr. Walters.

MATILDA LANE . I live at 19, Porteous Road, Paddington—on the 7th or 6th December, 1876, a person giving the name of Simpson hired three rooms in my house—he occupied the rooms a week and a day—other persons visited him—he left without notice—a search was made in his rooms—they brought a letter and took away some tin boxes—on the 31st December, 1876, Sergeants Smith and Mitchell came—I showed them the rooms Simpson had occupied—I also pointed out the cupboard in the back bedroom where some clothes hung belonging to Simpson.

Cross-examined. I never saw the prisoner there.

HENRY PIGOTT . In 1876 I was manager of the Shepherd's Bush branch of the London and South-Western Bank—on 22nd February the prisoner became a depositor—I produce the book with his signature "Robert Collier," of Witney Villa, Avenue Road, Shepherd's Bush—the account was kept open till the 14th of December—there is a cheque to Mr. Rowney on that day for 7l. 17s. 6d.—this is the pass book—I know the prisoner's writing—on 29th November, 1876, 20l. In cash was paid in—the cheque produced of 28th November on the Birkbeck Bank, signed George Riches, for 20l., is Collier's writing—it bears our stamp—it was paid to Collier's account—that is the item referred to in the pass-book—I do not think I saw the prisoner after the 15th December—he paid nothing into his account after that—the account was closed because it was overdrawn—on 1st December, 1876, the prisoner brought a Mr. John Gortz to the bank—an account was opened in that name—the entry is in this signature book, "John Gortz, 1, Belgrave Street, introduced by Mr. Collier"—this is the pass-book—a number of cheques were paid to that account in favour of Snelling and Son; those produced were—I had occasion to communicate with Gortz—these are the envelopes and postcards (produced) sent by me to that address—the last entry is 19th December, when the cheque was returned—the balance left was 22l. 5s. 6d.—it was transferred to the head office—I produce a copy of Collier's and of Gortz's accounts.

Cross-examined. I am not manager now—I know the custom of bankers on opening accounts—they usually make inquiries—I was examined in

1876 at the Mansion House—I stated Mr. Collier was a private gentleman; that he personally introduced Mr. Gortz to me; that Collier's was a private account—I think Gortz described himself as a private gentleman also.

CAROLINE WRIGHT . In December, 1876, I lived in Belgrave Street, Euston Road—on 1st December a Mr. Thomas took a parlour and bedroom at my house for his friend named Gortz—I was paid a deposit of 10s—on the 6th Mr. Thomas called for letters—there were none—Mr. Gortz never came—he was expected from Ireland—no one resided in the rooms, and the man did not come again—a policeman came, and I gave him three letten and a postcard addressed to Mr. Gortz—these are the envelopes (produced) one was a registered letter.

DOUGLAS STEWART PRIEST . I live at 92, Goldhawk Road, Shepherd's Bush—I am agent for the landlord of Witney Villa—on 19th December, 1876, I let my house to a tenant, who is there now—he is not the prisoner—before that the house was unoccupied.

Cross-examined. I have been agent five or six years—I did not let the house to Collier—I do not collect the rents—the agreements are on printed forms.

BENJAMIN HERRING . I am cashier at Williams Deacons, bankers, Birchin Lane—they are the London agents for the Yorkshire Banking Co.—I cashed this draft drawn upon our bank for 200l., by four bank notes for 50l.; one was No. 53070—I made a memorandum at the time—this it a copy from my entry.

LOUIS EDWARD STEIN . I live at 93, Aldersgate Street, City—I am a bullion dealer and jeweller—in December, 1876, I knew the prisoner—he was living at Witney Villa, Shepherd's Bush—I went to see him and a Mr. Chapman on 5th December at the Railway Hotel—Chapman has been convicted—I agreed to sell Chapman a diamond ring—I left it with Chapman in the prisoner's presence—Chapman gave me this 50/. note 53070—it bears my stamp "L. E. and Co., bullion dealers, 93, Aldersgate Street, London, E.C."

Cross-examined. I have known Collier six or seven years—I have dined with him—I was very friendly with him—I paid the note into my bank the next morning.

WILLIAM GEORGE MITCHELL . I am a clerk to the Birkbeok Bank—in December, 1876, a Mr. George Riches opened an account there—this is the pass book—there is an entry, November 28, 1876, Collier 20l.—this is the cheque to which it refers—we were not bankers to E. J. Snelling and Co., and had no connection with them except through Mr. Riches.

Cross-examined. I have been at the Birkbeck Bank seven or eight years—we keep a signature book—I take new accounts—we have about 3,000—I go out twice a day—I then leave some one in my place—I opened Riches' account—I cannot pay I recollect it, but I know my figures on the forms—I knew nothing of Snelling and Co.

Re-examined. This cheque initialled B. T. is drawn in favour of E. J. Snelling and Son—it is crossed the Union and Birkbeck Banks—it was paid through our bank—this letter, dated 11th December, 1876, is addressed to the Birkbeck Bank—on the top is "High Street, Acton."

By MR. GRAIN. I cannot trace the cheque referred to in the letter of 5th December—it is not a special clearing—it went to Riches' account because there is the number of his account, 131592, on it—that is our mark and his name is on it—I will not swear it went to Riches' account, because a mistake might have occurred.

By MR. MEAD. Looking at this credit note, dated 6th December, under the heading of country cheques, there is an account of 10l, it refers to that.

JOHN MITCHELL (City Detective). On Saturday, 26th Jane, I apprehended the prisoner at No. 1, Albert Villas, Harlesden, Middlesex, upon a warrant-issued on 2nd January, 1877—the prisoner opened the door to me—I said "I believe your name is Robert Collier"—he said "No, it is Brewer," and then walked back into the back room—I followed him—I said "I believe your name is Robert Collier, and you formerly resided at Witney Villa, at Shepherd's Bush, and for whose arrest I hold a warrant; I will read you the warrant"—I read it—he said "Read it again"—I read it again—he said "Well, my name is Robert Collier, and I did reside at Witney Villa, Shepherd's Bush; but you say Robert Collier alias George Riches; how can my name be George Riches if it is Robert Collier? the only George Riches I ever knew was sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment for a fraud in the City, and he was a printer at Shepherd's Bush"—I then took him to Seething Lane Police-station—the charge was read over to him—in answer to it he said "I know nothing about such rubbish."

Cross-examined. I was at the police-court four year ago—I saw Riches once before the arrest of Chapman—Riches was tried and convicted at this Court in December, 1877—I was looking after Collier then—Riches was not examined at Chapman's trial—I am speaking from memory—I think I saw him outside the police-court—I said "How do you do?—that is all—I did not take his evidence—I had no conversation with him.

GUILTY .— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

FOURTH COURT.—Saturday, August 7th, 1880.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-503

503. MEYER GOODMAN (23) and DAVID COLSKI (44) , Stealing three muffs, five hare-skin sets, and other articles, of Philip Moses, the master of Goodman.


MR. GEOGHEGAN Prosecuted; MR. M. WILLIAMS Defended.

WILLIAM OSBORNE (City Detective). On 2nd July I was with Detective Westwood, watching Mr. Moses's premises—I saw Goodman leave the warehouse about 1 o'clock, and followed him to the corner of Jewin Crescent—he stopped, turned round, looked back, and then ran into Aldersgate Street—he stood in the doorway, looked back again, and then ran on to Aldersgate railway station—I said "One moment, we are police officers, you will have to go back to the warehouse with me"—I took him to the station, and found 12 dozen yards of trimming, some ladies' jackets, two fur capes, and three hare skins, wrapped round his stomach—about 4 o'clock on the same day I went to Colski—he lives in one room and Goodman in the other, in the same house—I said "Does Mr. Goodman live here?"—he said "Yes"—I said "We wish to ask you a question, and I advise you to be careful. Goodman is in custody for stealing fur; has he sold you any?"—he said "No, I never bought or sold him any fur"—I said "I am going to search the house"—Westwood and I followed him upstairs—there was a room on the first floor—he said "That is my room, do not go in there"—I said "I am going to search Colski's room," and I went into it and there found these three muffs and 13 dozen yards of fur

trimming (produced)—Colski said "They are mine"—I said "Do you make them up?"—he again said "They are mine."

Cross-examined. There are four rooms in the house: chandler's shop back parlour, and two bedrooms—I do not think there is a cellar—I understood Colski was the landlord—there were two rooms on the same floor—the room on the first floor was a living and bedroom combined.

GEORGE WESTWOOD (City Policeman). I was in company with Osborne on the 2nd July.

PHILIP MOSES . I live at 47, Jewin Place—Goodman has been in my employment two years as a cutter—he had not the slightest right to take articles off the premises—on 2nd July I went to Colski's house and identified the property found there as mine—the value is about 25l.—I can identify the three muffs by the manufacture—I did not know Colski, but I have seen him.

Cross-examined. There is no private mark upon the goods—some thousands of people make muffs, but they don't make them exactly the same—I am not prepared to swear that there have not been any made like them by others.

SIMON GREENLAND . I know Goodman—I have never sold fur to him.

MEYER GOODMAN . I was in the prosecutor's service—I have known Colski since I have been in England—three years—I bought the three skins which were found in Colski's room—I brought the three muffs from Mr. Moses to my lodgings—I do not know how they got into Colski's room.

Cross-examined. Colski has some children—I am in the habit of playing with them.

Colski received a good character.


Reference Number: t18800803-504

504. GEORGE LEACH (20) ,. Feloniously assaulting Elizabeth Leach, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. RIBTON Prosecuted; MR. M. WILLIAMS Defended.

ELISABETH LEACH . I live at 37, Little Russell Street;—the prisoner is my husband—we have been married about 12 months—on 20th May I was at home with him—we had a quarrel—he promised to be home by 8 o'clock, but did not appear till nearly 10 o'clock—that was the cause of the quarrel—it lasted about 20 minutes—there was supper on the table—I refused to go to it—he tried to push me towards the table—I did not feel that I had been struck with anything—I felt faint—I felt a knife by the bedside as I was going towards the table—my sister came downstairs—I walked to the prisoner's sister's place—it is not in the same house—I then found that I was bleeding—I was seen by a doctor about an hour afterwards, and the wound was strapped up—I was in the hospital seven weeks—there was a little struggle between us when I felt the knife—we were living together happily—I do not want to press the charge against him at all—I do not believe he meant to hurt me—he said, "I did not mean to do it; I do not know how the knife touched you at all."

EMMA MADDIGAN . I live at 19, Cole Yard, Drury Lane—I remember the prisoner and his wife coming to my place—he is my brother—Mrs. Leach was sitting on the floor—the prisoner was holding her—he said, "I do not know what I have done"—I examined her back—there was a cut on it.

JOHN PHILLIPS . I am house surgeon at King's College Hospital—about 10 a.m. on 20th May Mrs. Leach was brought in—when I saw her she was lying on a table in a state of collapse—I thought she would not

live many hours—she had evidently lost a great deal of blood, and she had a large wound on her left shoulder which was not bleeding very much, just oozing—for at least a month she was in danger—she has recovered from the wound but not from the shock to the nervous system—this knife could produce the wound if used with considerable, force.

Cross-examined. The reason she was so long in the hospital was that inflammation of the lungs set in.

ALEXANDER HUTCHEON . On the morning of 20th May I went to Duke Street, Bloomsbury—the prisoner's room was pointed out to me—I found this knife on the bed—there were spots of blood upon it—I saw the prisoner coming out of Smart's Buildings towards Holborn—he began to cry, and said, "I know what you want me for. I cannot account for my hurting my wife"—I took him to the station, me on the way he said he was very sorry; he could not account for it, and asked me several times if she was dying.


Reference Number: t18800803-420

420. SAMUEL MORLEY (39) , PLEADED GUILTY to embezzling 20 carcases of sheep, six sides of beef, and 10 sides of beef, the property of John Dodds and others, his masters.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-421

421. GEORGE SINNETT (20) and WILLIAM MOGOWAN,(24) alias WEBB , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Richard Webb, and stealing two coats, one pair of trousers, and other articles, his property.

MR. KEITH FRITH Prosecuted.

HENRY TOWNSHEND (Policeman 311 X). About 4.55 a.m. on 18th July I was in the Talbot Road, Paddingdon—I saw Sinnett and McGowan going towards London—Sinnett was carrying a brown paper parcel under his arm—I asked him what he had in the parcel—MoGowan was near enough to hear—Sinnett said "Two coats"—I asked if they were his—he said, "No; they are my brother's-in-law. I live at 27, Market Street, Borough"—he said he got them from the pawnshop—McGowan said he went with Sinnett to the pawnshop to redeem them—I asked Sinnett if he would allow me to look at them—he did so—I said, "You have got something more"—he said he had not—he turned the coats up and I saw these two coloured shirts, two white shirts and collars attached, and some socks (produced)—I said, "I am not satisfied with your answers. You will have to go with me to the station"—I found on McGowan a book of the lives of robbers and murderers, a memorandum book, a card for the Raglan Music Hall in the name of George Sinnett, some photographs, a knife, a regimental book, and two penholders, a purse and some pawntickets, two of which are in the name of Fowler; a pair of brown kid gloves, four violin strings, a cigar tube and case, a violin mute, and a pipe case.

DANIEL MAELOW (Police Inspector X). I was on duty at 6 p.m. on 18th July at Harrow Road Police-station, Sinnett made a statement to me. McGowan was not present.

GEORGE MEASON . I am a marine store dealer, of 11, Dalford Street, Notting Hill—Sinnett sold these trousers at my shop on 17th July—I did not see another man with him.

RICHARD WEBB . I am a laundryman, of 111, George Street, Latimer Road—I recognise these trousers, coats, pipecase, cigar-holder, violin strings, mute, and gloves—at about 4.30 on 17th Jury they were safe in my house—I then left for Dorking, and returned on the following Sunday evening—I

then went to the police-station, and saw these—the prisoner is my son, he goes under a feigned name, and he is not right in his mind; he has been an inmate of a lunatic asylum (producing a certificate)—no medical man has seen him but the authorities of the Netley Lunatic Asylum—this certificate was written by them.

HENRY TOWNSHEND (Re-examined). Sinnett has made a statement which shows that they have both been in the hospital together and both in the army.

GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.

Reference Number: t18800803-422

422. ADAM CRAWFORD (44) , Unlawfully attempting to commit b—st—y.

MESSRS. POLAND and CROOME Prosecuted; MR. SMYTHIER Defended.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

FOURTH COURT.—Monday and Tuesday, August 9th and 10th.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerry Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-423

423. WILLIAM BUTCHER (27), JOHN SMITH (43), and MARY ANN COOKE (37) , Unlawfully endeavouring to bribe Squire White, a police officer.

MR. POLAND Prosecuted; MR. BESLEY appeared for Butcher; MR. MONTAGU

WILLIAMS for Smith; and MR. WARNER SLEIGH and MR. FULTON for Cooke.

SQUIRE WHITE (Police Inspector B). I have been in the police 20 years—my division is at Westminster—I now receive rather more than 3l. 15s. a week, but I entered as a constable—on 25th May I went to Cooke's coffee-shop, which is in Wilton Street, opposite Victoria Station—it is not a public house—the female prisoner lived there—she is the wife of William Cooke, and she assisted in managing the business—I went there soon after 8 a.m. with Sergeant Preston and Constable Blatchford—Sergeant Preston found a chest of tea there which had been opened—we took possession of it, searched the house, and found a large quantity of jewellery in a movable safe, and a deposit receipt for 200l.—I made a list of the jewellery, which was worth between 300l. and 400l, and consisted of watches, rings, bracelets, pins, lockets, and all manner of things, and the stones were pearls, diamonds, and other stones—I took the man Cooke into custody, and the woman was taken afterwards on the same day—they were both taken on that day before Mr. D'Eyncourt, the Magistrate at Westminster Police-court, and charged with receiving a chest of tea knowing it to be stolen—there was a remand to the 1st or 2nd June—on 4th June this deposit note for 200l. was given up to Mr. W. D. Smyth, the solicitor defending Cooke—an application was made for it to the Magistrate, who said it was to be given up to him—this is the receipt Mr. Smyth gave for it (produced)—on the 5th June the prisoners were before the Magistrate, and were remanded again—Mrs. Cooke was bailed, and the man remained in custody—after the examination, the prisoner Butcher came to my office in the police-station adjoining the Court—I have known him for a number of years—it was then about 3 o'clock—he said "There is a couple of hundred pounds for you if you will let Cooke out and bring nothing against him"—I said that I would see about it, and I went with him to a public-house and had something to drink with him—I did not communicate with

any one that day, as I had to go in the country—I returned on the Sunday evening, the 6th, and saw Butcher on Thursday evening, the 8th, at the station—he said "It is all right, but you cannot have all the money at once, unless you let us have some of that which you have in your possession;" I said that I would see about it, and he left; the next day (Wednesday) he came again and said it was all right, he had got a gent who would do it—I made an appointment to meet him at the Aquarium at 9 o'clock that evening to receive the 100l.—Preston and Blatchford were about the building, but were not with me—I met him there, and he said that his friend was there somewhere, but that he could not find him; I waited until 11 o'clock, but he did not come, and Butcher then made an appointment to meet me at 11 o'clock next morning at St. James's Park Station—I went there and waited some time, but Butcher did not come, and I went to the station—he afterwards came there, and said where did I promise to meet him? I said at St. James's Park Station at 11 o'clock; he said "I thought it was here; never mind, I have a gent who will do it in about 10 minutes;" I said "Where;" he said "Under the arches at the Victoria;" I said "At the restaurant?" he said "Yes"—I told him to go on, and I went there and called for a glass of ale, and he paid for it—while I was drinking it I saw Butcher and Smith, whom I did not know before, but I had seen him about the Court—I afterwards found that he lived in Tower Street—Butcher said "This is my friend Smith"—I had a glass of ale, and he paid for it—after Butcher had finished his dinner he got up and went out just under the archway, and said "We may as well do that little job here;" I said "Tea, what is it that you wish me to do?" Smith said "Not to bring anything further up against Cooke, but let him get out, and there is another 100l. for you; there is only the tea, and that he will get out of, for we are going to subpoena Hill to prove that he was with him on the day"—Smith then gave me a white handkerchief tied up; it was very heavy—I asked him what it was—he said "There is 100l."—I put it in my left trousers pocket, and he said "Are you going to give me a tip?" putting his hand behind him, and: I said "What do you mean?" he said "Half a sov. for myself;" I said that I would meet him at the Aquarium at 9 o'clock; he said "That is all right;" Smith said "he" or "we are now going up to see Cooke, and bring nothing farther against him, and when he is out there is another hundred for you"—Preston was watching outside—we went to the police-station and showed the handkerchief and the 100l. to Inspector Foinett—I examined it—there were 100 sovereigns in it, and it was marked "M. A. Cooke"—I then informed one of the directors, and went to Mr. Wontner, who prepared the case—I communicated with my superiors from time to time—I had the jewellery in my office and upwards of 2,000l. In bonds and cash, which was afterwards given up by the Magistrate's direction—it was deposited in Tapsell's name; I did not trace the clock—that was about two years before—I took Smith at 6, Wilton Road—this (produced) is a printed list of the property, which was sent round to all the police-stations—Blatchford was a plain-clothes man—he was on duty on the morning of the 16th June, and I have not seen him since.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have known Butcher's father for nearly 13 years—Butcher is many years younger than me—I have known him from a mere youth—I do not suggest that he is more than 25—I am very little over 40—his (Butchers) father is a licensed victualler—he

keeps the Cabin vincent Square, Westminster, within 100 yards of Bochester Row—I heard that he had arranged to give up the Cabin, before the tea was put into the house—I have been on intimate terms with Butcher, speaking to him and meeting him—I have said he has been an intimate friend with me—that is true—while he was keeping the Cabin, which is next door to Westminster Police Court, he had the run of the place to supply refreshment to the prisoners, with the knowledge, I believe, of the people in authority at the police court—I was on such terms as to have refreshments brought by him into my office if I requested it, and also for the men; there was a little bill of 1l. 19s. 9d. for drink supplied a long time before this, but I did not know that it had been run up for me—very likely some of the brandy went down my throat—I did not tell Butcher in my private office that I knew Cooke when I was with Serjeant Harris in the Borough—I did not call him Cooke—I have called Butcher Bill some time since—Serjeant Clynch is not missing; he is all right—I made inquiry of Blatchford's wife the day he went away—I did not know of Clynch and Blatchford being at Epsom races on the Derby day with Butcher in the enclosure—I have no information on the subject—I believe Church is here to-day—I do not see him in Court—I do not know that he was with Butcher in the enclosure when the Derby was run—Butcher never told me that Blatchford had said that he might take refreshment down to the cells to Cooke—he never told me that Cooke wanted to see me, nor did I answer, "I am too busy, because I am not going to be seen going down there, you go yourself, and tell me what he wants"—I believe that you said, on the hearing at the police court, that I was the last person that any one would for a moment conceive it possible to bribe—that is right enough—I acted a part as though I was about to be bribed—my words were, "All through I acted the part of a police officer who was ready to receive a bribe"—anything that Butcher suggested to me I said, "Yes, I will see," and I agreed with him that I would meet him at any place, and so on—I did not ask him from time to time, "Have you seen Cooke? Have you been to Cooke's place?"—I did not say, "I saw a lot of money in Cooke's house;" he would know that by being in Court and hearing it given out what was found in the house—I do not know who told him to come into Court—I saw him taking refreshment inside—I never told Butcher that I was there for the purpose of decoying Cooke and his friend—Butcher said that the gentleman went in after plush; that means that he did not want anything disagreeable—I did not shake him by the hand and say, "As a man, you shall never suffer for anything you do for me." Nothing of the kind—I did not give him assurance upon assurance that he should not suffer—I acted the part of a person who was willing to receive the money—I did not tell Butcher that I was going to let my superiors know, or I should not have had it—I have not read the shorthand notes—I think something was said about going to Cooke's people, but I cannot remember telling him positively—I then called him Bill, but we did not meet every day—I once said that I would meet Cooke's people anywhere—I did not say "I don't like promises, and the money can be deposited;" but I think I said, "I don't like promises"—I gave him to understand that I should not get into trouble—I will not swear I did not say, "Bill, what you do for me you shall not get into trouble"—on Mr. Richards, one of the clerks at Westminster Police-court, taking down what was said, I nudged Butcher and

made a gesture to call attention that he was there—I was acting under Mr. Wontner's direction as to Blatchford—Blatchford did not tell me that Cooke had complained of the charge made against him being false—I did not hear of it being imputed to be false until after this affair of the money—I had some notes at the police-court; these are them—the account I have given you of the interview between Smith and myself is truer—Butcher said, "We may as well do it here," and we went out under the arches—When he said, "This is Mr. Smith," the conversation all went on between me and Smith, and Butcher stood aside. He never asked me for a tip—I said at the police-court they were then going up to see Cooke at the House of Detention—I said that I was not positive whether it was "he" or "they," but according to my notes it is "they"—I will not say that it was not "we" are going up to see Cooke, meaning Smith and Butcher—I think I swore it again in my examination in chief in answer to Mr. Wontner—it was you who called my attention to it; you would not allow me to look at my notes—the answer was, "Smith said we are going up to see Cooke and tell him it is all right;" my note says "Smith said he was going up to see Cooke"—after going away with my 100l. I think I saw Butcher again in Rochester Row—I sent a message to him by a man named Davidson to say he was wanted—that was when I was going to apprehend him—It was arranged to find where Smith was and where Butcher was, as they had not been seen in the Court that morning—I never had an angry word with Butcher in my life—I didn't want him to go to the House of Detention to see Cooke, nor did he say, "No, I do not want to go there."

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I knew Cooke as a returned convict—I have known him for two or three years as a coffee-shop keeper—he would use tea in his trade; I never knew what his defence was till you mentioned it at the police-court—I was asked if I knew a man named Lawrence—I do know him—he is a convicted thief—I do not know that Cooke's defence was that Lawrence had brought the tea there in his absence with the knowledge of the police—when Cooke was taken into custody he said, "I have been sold like a b—bullock"—I cannot say whether the prosecution was dropped by the Treasury, because Cooke was not present when the tea was received—I have tried to find Lawrence and cannot—I have tried to find Blatchford and wish I could find him—Cooke was taken in custody in May; out of this long list of articles I can only trace the clock and the tea as stolen—he was charged with stealing the clock, but they had not finished the evidence when the charge was withdrawn—I will not allege that it was stolen property, but we did not go on with it on account of it being stolen so long ago—he was remanded four or five times in custody—notice was given to attend and then the prosecution was dropped by order of the authorities—that was some time after Blatchford disappeared—Blatchford did not tell me that he would not go into the witness-box and support my statement by perjury—Cooke was liberated and he was then charged with keeping this place as a brothel—I knew that it was frequented by prostitutes; I do not know for what purpose, they may have gone in for a cup of tea—I do not say now that it was a brothel—I know nothing about it—they did not consult me; the warrant was issued for keeping a brothel, and I gave Preston directions to execute it—that was while Cooke was in custody—I knew that the warrants were going to be applied for, but I did not know

that the charge was going to be made until the warrants were received (Parts of the witness's depositions were here read to him, to which he assented.) After I had sworn that the men were kept in custody five or six weeks, Cooke said that the tea was left in his absence, and I fancy it was—I have never changed my opinion if the prosecution have—I do not know whether he fetched soda and brandy into my office when Butcher was there—I am not positive if I told him whether I would see him to-morrow—I do not remember sending Blatchford to Butcher to tell him that I wanted to see him at my office—I will not swear I did not—I cannot say whether he came to my office the next day after the soda and brandy was had—Butcher may have come in when Detective Buxton was there—I did not send him out in order to speak to Butcher, but I will not swear that I did not send him out—I did not say to Butcher when Buxton had gone, "Have you seen anything of Cooke's people?" nor did he say, "No"—I did not say, "Go down to his shop and tell them from me that it is all right, there is nothing more against him more than the tea"—that is an invention—I very often saw Butcher talking to Davis, a jeweller—I will not swear that I did not say, "Have you seen Cooke to-day?" nor did he say, "No, he is down in the cellar; go and see him and tell him it is all right"—I will not swear that I did not say there were three persons there—I did not say, "I shall do no more than I am obliged to do"—I don't recollect it; I did not subsequently say to Butcher with regard to the cells, "I cannot come down, but tell him to tell you anything he wants to say to me"—I do not recollect saying, "I shall be over in my office, Bill"—I will not swear I did not—Preston's name is John—I do not say that I have not called him Jack—I do not remember saying, "Be careful not to say anything, now, as I don't want Jack to hear;" I will not swear I did not—I sent Deadman to find Butcher, but I cannot say that Butcher came—he was apprehended by Preston; I won't swear he did not come to my office—when I sent for him it was to lock him up—I do not remember his coming when I sent Deadman for him, nor did I then say, "Bill, what you do for me shall never get you into trouble. I will give you my word as a man and get them to meet me anywhere they line and let me know where you will meet them at half an hour's notice"—I do not remember any portion of that—I told Smith to tell him that I would meet him under the organ at the Aquarium, and I went to the Aquarium, and there was no Smith there—I saw Butcher there, he and I were in company during the evening—I saw him the next day outside the police-station, but did not see Smith—I did not say to Butcher "Have you seen Smith?" nor did he say "He has gone to the restaurant in Victoria Street"; I did not know who I was going to meet—I went to the restaurant in Victoria Street and drank one glass of ale by myself, and one glass with Butcher, which he paid for—Smith was sitting at the table—I did not say "Where shall we go," Smith wants to speak to me, does not he?"—I said that I would meet them at the Aquarium that night—I did not meet Blatchford that night; I met him the night previous—I told him to say that I could not come—I did not say to Butcher at the very commencement of the suggestion, "Cooke has got a lot of money and somebody ought to have some," nothing of the sort—the first suggestion of a bribe was made to me on the 5th June—it was introduced by something about the weather—Butcher knew me as a highly respectable officer—he said, "There is Cooke rounding again, and there is a couple of hundred for you on the

quiet"—there was nobody else in the office, he made that suggestion perfectly of his own free will—I was not very much astonished because it had been intimated to me by Poinett that the statement had been made to him by Blatchford—I communicated with Foinett on Monday, the 7th—I never said to Butcher that I was frightened at the matter, there was too much b—rounding going on—it is very seldom I use such language as that—I will swear I did not say so, even leaving the adjective out—I did not suggest that the money should be paid to me in gold; I know that notes are traceable.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I will not undertake to say that I did not hear Cooke say to me at the station in Preston's presence, "You have done this for me, you have sent it to me"—I did not know what Cooke's defence would be—the tea was stolen from Mr. Fitzgerald's on 24th May about 1 o'clock in the day—I had no conversation with Preston about Laurence on any day prior to the tea being left at Cooke's—I did not know of the existence of Laurence on 24th May, but I told Mr. M. Williams at the police-court that I did not believe I had talked about Laurence, because I was not positive—it was Preston's duty to look at the convict list, and he says that he looked at it—I looked at it and I expect Laurence's name was there, but I cannot say that I noticed it on 23rd May—if I read the list down, I must have—I know now that Laurence came out from his sentence on 20th May, but I did not know it on 23rd May—I did not speak to Preston about Laurence on the evening of 23rd Kay, I swear that—I had seen the convict list before I gave evidence at the police-court—I said in answer to Mr. M. Williams at the police-court, "I do not recognize him in the convict list" and that is what I say now—there might be half a dozen Laurences in the convict list, and I did not know when Mr. M. Williams was cross-examining me that he was inquiring about the Laurence who came out on 20th May—the convict list is for the purpose of carrying out the police supervision—I must have seen his name in the list before 20th May—I do not know that Preston saw Laurence on 22nd May, I have never heard it—I swear Preston never told me so—I do not know that Preston was in communication with Laurence on 22nd May—I never heard of it—the tea was lost or stolen on the 24th in the middle of the day—I decline to answer the question whether I saw Laurence on the morning of the 25th May about 8.15—I saw a man who I know by another name, but I know his name now to be Laurence—I saw him on the morning he was apprehended, that was 25th May—I do not know whether that was the man who put the ten in Cooke's shop, I cannot say for certain—I was in the neighbourhood of Victoria Station at 8.15 where Laurence was, to do my duty; that was to go to Cooke's house—I did not know that that was the man that left the tea there the day before—I met the man there—I went to meet him—I did not know at the time that he was the man who had left the tea there the day before—I may as well tell you at once I went there to receive information from him—he had told me the night previous—I did not know that Cooke was at the races when the tea was left, nor do I know it now—he did not tell me that he had left the tea, and that there should be no mistake he had broken the chest and taken some of it out, if he had I should have taken him in custody—he did not inform me who had taken the tea there, he said that it had been taken there, and that it was taken from Mincing Lane—he did not tell me who had taken it and

I had no idea that he had taken it—I met him there by appointment at 8.15—I did not tell him to go into Cooke's house before I went in to take Cooke in custody—I swear that—I believe he did go in, but I did not see him—I detailed Blatchford to watch whether Laurence went into Cooke's house, he is the man who has gone away—I do not know that the prosecution for felony was dropped partly because Mrs. Blatchford had written to the Commissioners of Police—I have heard that she has written to the Treasury—that was not one of the reasons for the prosecution being dropped—I do not know that the chest of tea case was dropped on the one hand on hearing that Blatchford could not give evidence against Cooke and on the other because he did not like to turn round on his superior officer—I believe I swore at the police-court that I had no communication with Preston before the day Mr. and Mrs. Cooke were examined with regard to Laurence—that was true—I made an appointment personally on the 24th to meet Laurence at 8.14 next morning in the neighbourhood of Victoria Station—I cannot remember whether Preston was or was not then in my company—the appointment was made in Wilton Road, within 50 or 60 yards of Cooke's house—Blatchford was there—I undertake to say that I did not know that man by the name of Laurence on 24th May—I knew him as McKenzie—I did not know that he had been doing penal servitude for a robbery of gold on the Ottoman Bank; that I swear—I never asked his history, and I never saw him before the night of the 24th—observation has been kept on Cooke's house for two years, but not at my instigation—he has been unsuccessfully watched as to receiving stolen property—Baldwin, a policeman of the A division, brought McKenzie to me on the night of the 24th—I cannot say whether Baldwin saw me on 21st May—I will swear that he and I did not have a conversation about Cooke on 21st May—I cannot say whether Baldwin met McKenzie as he came out of prison, but it was his duty to do so—it was not his duty to bring him to me, but he made a statement to Baldwin, and on that statement he brought him to me—the statement conveyed to me was not that McKenzie had stolen the tea from Fitzgerald's and left it at Cooke's or I should have known what to have done with him, sharp—I will swear he never told me he had left the tea at Cooke's or I should have had him—I wanted to meet him for information respecting the tea—it turned out afterwards that the tea was stolen from McKenzie's—he told me that the tea was in Cooke's place, and that I should find it as I went in in a little room under the cupboard—I had no idea then that he took the tea and put it there himself—I do not know when he came out of prison—it was Baldwin's duty to meet prisoners on the morning they came out and hand them certain papers if they are not licence-holders, which instructs them what to do—Baldwin brought him to me from the statement Fitzgerald made—he did not tell me that McKenzie had stolen the tea and left it at Cooke's, or I should have known what to do with him—I do not remember Preston admitting that he had a conversation with me about a man named Laurence—I was ordered out of Court at the beginning of Preston's cross-examination by your wish, but the Magistrate thought I had a right to be in Court—I know a public-house in Rochester Bow, kept by a man named Harris—it is not at the corner—I think I saw Preston after the case was over, but we did not speak about Laurence that day—I may have spoken about McKenzie—I cannot say that I spoke about my

being ordered out of Court at your request—I don't think he told me he had been asked whether I had any conversation with him about Laurence—I will not swear he did not—I said in my cross-examination "I know two or three people named Laurence; I do not know who you mean, I have not the least idea; I have heard Laurence's name mentioned in connection with that chest of tea"—I think I also said "I know that Lawrence had been talked about, I believe he is a convict"—I only knew him as McKenzie—there might have been another Laurence there—I have frown Baldwin seven or eight years—he is on intimate terms with me—he does not visit at my house but he visits at the station—he is not in my division—I did not suppose for some time afterwards that the man who gave the information about the tea had anything to do with stealing it, and from what was said afterwards I informed the Directors and told them who I received the information from—I did not tell the Directors that McKenzie had been to Cooke's shop and taken away some of the tea and a piece of the chest—I swear that—I tried to get from McKenzie who took the tea, and he slid "Don't ask me"—the tea was not stolen in my division—the reason that the man was brought to me was that the property would be found in my division—McKenzie did not tell me that he was not on the spot at all when the tea was stolen—he maintained a discreet silence, and I had no idea that he had anything to do with taking the tea—he gave me the information the night before, I was not satisfied with it, and asked him to meet me next morning—the information was not sufficient for me to go to the place and find the tea—it was not my duty to do so—I use my discretion—if the tea had been disposed of in the night I should not have had anything to do with it—I knew that Cooke was not at home, but I did not know that the tea was left in his absence—I do not know at what time it was left—I never heard that he was betting that day—I got the information on the morning of the 25th that Cooke was at home, and that the tea was still there, and that instead of being stolen from Mincing Lane it was stolen from a turning up Mincing Lane.

Re-examined. On the evening of 28th May, Laurence or McKenzie was brought to the station by George Baldwin of the A division, and he gave me information about the tea being stolen that day, which was said to be at Cooke's—that house is in my division—I did not then know whether his true name was Laurence or McKenzie—after I had seen him I sent a telegram to the City and got a reply—I went the same night to see if Cooke was at his place and found he was not—it was after that I went in and made the search—I had no information from Laurence who the person was who had stolen the tea, simply that it would be found there—I did not know that Baldwin was going to bring a man to me on the evening of the 24th—he brought him and he gave me the information—I do not known of my own knowledge when Laurence or McKenzie came out of prison—I do not know that he came out on the 20th—I mentioned, when I took Cooke, that the ten had been left when he was out yesterday—I told the Magistrate that—I think the date of Laurence going out of prison would be in the convict list.

JOHN PRESTON (Police-Sergeant B). On 25th May I assisted Inspector White in searching Cooke's premises—I gave evidence at the police-court—I saw White on 5th June, after the prisoners had been remanded—on Wednesday, 9th June, I saw Butcher and White at the Aquarium, and on 10th June I was outside the restaurant and saw them leave with Smith—I afterwards

saw at the station the money brought there by White—I arrested Smith a coffee-house, 6 Wilton Road—I had seen him there from time to time and Mrs. Cooke also.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I was perfectly well known to young Butcher—the Cabin had only changed hands the day before—I did not tell him to go and see the Squire; I said "The governor wants to fee you"—that is Squire White—he said "It won't do for him to come here; where had I better go? I will go round the square way to his office; where is the Squire?"—he said "Over the road; go and tell him"—I went and saw White, and at once took Smith, and about a quarter of an hour afterwards I took Butcher at the Cabin door—there had been general conversation at the station that day, 25th May, about the Derby—that was the day that Cooke was apprehended—something was said about the quantity of money which had been seen in Cooke's house—there was a deposit note for 2000l., and there was 100l. In a box—I never heard it talked about that it was actually making a man steal the goods to put them there—Blatchford did not say that it was a put up thing and he would not go into the witness box, but I said to him when he was in the case, "There is a lot of money, and there will be very likely something up with this money; be careful what you are at"—I do not say that as early as the Derby I expected bribes would be offered—Blatchford did not tell me on the Derby day that there would be money offered me, nor the day after—I told White what Blatchford had communicated to me over night—I think that was June 2nd—it was the day after I saw Laurence as McKenzie—Blatchford did not tell me that the whole thing was a put up, that a convict stole the tea and put it there.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. I had some sandwiches to-day at a house on Ludgate Hill with Baldwin—I do not say with White, because I can only speak of one at a time—White is my superior officer—he was there when I went in, I did not know he was there—I do not know whether White had been examined then by everybody but Mr. Sleigh—we had no conversation at all about the case; Mr. White said that we had better say nothing about the case, and we did not—I have seen Baldwin two or three years at Rochester Row—it may be longer; I do not wish to make a mistake.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I never gave evidence with White about Laurence previous to going to the police-court—I have known more of Baldwin recently—I saw him at the station on the night of 24th May by himself—he afterwards came out with White, and I know now that it was about Cooke's case—I saw him go in at the front of the station—I saw no one else with him—I did not know Laurence—I never saw him to know that he was Laurence before this charge of felony was presented at the police court, and I never heard that White had—he never told me so—I saw the name of Laurence in the convict list, but cannot say when, because we are in the habit of reading our information daily—I did not look at it to see the day that Laurence come out of prison, nor could I tell the day by it—the date is not inserted in the list—it gives a description of all prisoners liberated from penal servitude, and gives their offence as felony, or murder, or whatever it may be—it does not describe it in full—it states the number of years they have been in penal servitude, but not the date they come out—the date is given when the sentence will expire—it is issued twice or three times a week, and shows the convicts that come out on

a particular day, but a convict might come out to-day and not appear in the convict list till Wednesday—I do not know that Baldwin knew Laurence, alias McKenzie, previously to this affair—I know nothing of Baldwin having anything to do with bringing Laurence to White—if Baldwin speaks to me I speak to him—I never had cause to be otherwise than intimate with him—I saw a man on 25th May, but did not know him by any name—I was watching White and the man—Blatchford was with me—I did not see the man go into Cooke's coffee-house—I was inside the Underground Railway Station—the man spoke to White and he went away—White told me to watch him, but I do not not think I could see the door of 6, Wilton Road, from there, not to watch it properly; it is a row of shops almost opposite the station, one side of Victoria Station is Wilton Road, and the other side is Belgrave Road—White told me to watch him, White—I knew nothing about Laurence then—White was at the door of the railway station with his face towards Wilton Place—but there are railings all round, and it would be impossible almost to see through them. I did not hear from White that Laurence had given him information as to who stole a watch from a mattrass six years ago, but he gave me instructions in the matter—I do not know that the police have had their eye upon Cooke two years, for the purpose of finding whether he was the receiver of stolen goods; but I have had instructions to keep observation on the place to discover whether he was—White did not tell me that Baldwin had made a communication about Laurence—I am sure he did not—I did not know that White had seen Laurence on the night of 24th May, till after I had been with White, and then I did not know it was Laurence, I only knew it was a man—I knew Blatchford was away—I have beard that his wife has made a statement to the authorities—I was at the police-court when the case of felony was withdrawn—I do not know that it was withdrawn because Blatchford had absconded, rather than give evidence against me and White—I never heard why it was withdrawn—I was never more surprised than when I heard it—I have no idea that it was withdrawn by the Treasury in consequence of Mrs. Blatchford's statement—I heard of her statement—I never heard that the prosecution had been withdrawn with reference to the felony because Blatchford would not give evidence against me—I have heard in conversation that Mrs. Blatchford made a statement, but it was not told to me, nor did I hear that White's name and mine were mentioned in it—a conversation was going on at the Regency, in Regent Street, and I overheard that she had made a statement, but I took no further notice than what I have told you—I heard it after the charge against Cooke was withdrawn—I did not know what statement she had made—it did not connect itself in my mind with the withdrawal of the prosecution, because whenever any of Blatchford's friends came I made it my business to go away—I did not shut my ears because I heard it, but I am ignorant of the statement she made, and I do not know now—I have not the slightest idea that the prosecution was dropped because that statement was made to the Treasury as to the bond fides of the statement against Cooke—I did not hear the conversation between the man and White, and I did not know that White had an appointment to meet Laurence at 8.15 a.m. on 25th May; but I know that he did meet him—when I was going there I knew the object, but I did not know whether he was Laurence or McKenzie—I merely went

there because White told me to meet him at the railway station in the morning—I thought it was to search Cooke's place—I will not swear one way or other if I knew I was going for the purpose of meeting Iaurence before he went into Cooke's shop—my appointment was to meet Mr. White, but not the man Laurence—I was not told over night that I was to meet Laurence, but I expected to meet him because he was the man who had given information the day before—I saw him in the Regency on 5th or 6th July—that house is not kept by Butcher.

GEORGE BALDWIN (Policeman 124 A.) Up to 5th or 6th June I was a clerk in the convict office, which is a department of police—I saw several men in May who had recently come out of prison, one of whom I knew as Lawrence—he came out about the 19th or 20th—I saw him one or two days after at Scotland Yard—he was not obliged to report himself—he made a communication in reference to Cooke on the 29th about 9 p.m.—I met him in the street at Westminster, and in consequence of that I took him to the station where he gave information to Inspector White—I remember a telegram being sent to the station about the tea, and an appointment was made to meet White next day—as far as I know up to that time, White had never seen Laurence before—I also knew Laurence as McKenzie—I did not know him before he underwent his sentence—I saw him twice at Scotland Yard, and the third time he came up to me—Cooke's place is in White's district.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I was a clerk at Scotland Yard on 19th May—the pay you get for that is according to the rank you hold—I was promoted about 2nd or 3rd June, that was before the prosecution was abandoned against Cooke—I have gone back to street duty but that is not being degraded—I have been reduced—I saw McKenzie first in Millbank—I was not to see him on his discharge to give him papers—I saw him two or three days after his discharge, but not the day of his discharge—when I saw him he came to see anybody he could in the same office—he saw Sergeant Eandall—that was on the 21st or 22nd—I met him on the 24th at nearly 9 o'clock in the evening, but I had seen him twice prior to that—he was perhaps 10 minutes in my office—I saw him the next day, that was a week day, I think it was a Friday, and then I did not see him again until Monday about 4 p.m.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I saw him in prison on the Wednesday before he left and gave him these papers—I do not know the date—I had no conversation with him, no more, than taking his description and seeing if it was correct—I saw no more of him until he was at Scotland Yard on the 22nd—he simply told the inspector on the Wednesday where he was going to live in Westminster—I saw him again on Wednesday evening, the 24th, and he told me the tea had been stolen—he did not say how he knew it—he said it was found at Cooke's—I knew him very well as Laurence—he had given the name of McKenzie prior to that, and he said he was going to live in the name of McKenzie—I took him to White and said, "Here is a returned convict"—I did not give his name, White never asked me—I have always been a private—I have been in the force nine years next May, in the R division, at Greenwich—I come from Bexley Heath, in Kent—I have been promoted since I gave this information, but they did not know that I gave it—since the charge has been withdrawn I have been reduced.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I was on intimate terms with White but not with Preston, I knew him as a brother constable, that is all—White did not tell me that he had been watching Cooke; I swear that—I do not

know his duties—I never heard him say that he wanted to find Cooke out in some offence; I swear that—I took Laurence to White from information I received from Laurence—he did not say he had stolen the tea—he only said he knew that some had gone to Cooke and that it came from a corner near Mincing Lane—I did not press him to tell me he had taken it, or ask him, because I took him to Inspector White. The first time I saw him was in Millbank—it was on the 19th, the day before his discharge—he did not then tell me that he was going to live in Westminster, and that he had seen—he gave me no reason for taking the name of McKenzie—he was not under police supervision—ho was never sentenced to it—he never told me he had never seen White before I took him to White the evening of the 24th—on Thursday morning, the 25th, I was at home in bed—I remember there was an appointment for that morning for me to meet White, but what time I do not know—White made the appointment—I took Laurence on Monday night, the 24th, and there was a conversation between him and White—he did not say where he had left the tea—he said that there was some tea—the appointment was not made in my presence—White was not certain that he should find it there—he examined the man after sending the telegram to the City to know if any tea had been stolen—he did not say in my presence "You shall come with me to-morrow and show me the place where you left the tea"—he did not ask me to meet him next day—he did not say that he had taken the tea himself, but said there was some tea gone to Cooke's—I did not ask him whether he took it there, because I took him to White.

Re-examined. White telegraphed to the City for information but none was obtained, as nothing was known—Laurence waited there until a reply came to the telegram.

SQUIRE WHITE (Re-examined). I have not been called upon to give any report to the office with regard to this matter—I have not seen the report made to the directors of public prosecutions—I have not seen any statement of Mrs. Blatchford—I cannot say whether Smith was managing the business for Cooke, but I saw him there almost every day.

WILLIAM TILLOCK . I am gatekeeper at the House of Detention.—Wiliiam Cooke was admitted as a prisoner there on the 25th, and on 2nd June Smith and Mary Ann Cooke visited him together—on the 3rd and 4th Smith visited him alone—on the 5th and 6 h he was not visited—on the 7th and 8th Smith and Cooke visited him together, and on the 9th, 10th, and 11th Smith visited him alone—I have entries here of Smith's name and address.

WILLIAM GEORGE MITCHELL , I am cashier of the Birkbeck Bank, Southampton Buildings—Mary Ann Tapsell had an account there, and 200l. was standing to her credit, I believe—100l. in gold was drawn out on 7th June by means of this document, and she signed this receipt—she would keep the deposit note, as 100l. was remaining—I did not pay her,. hut it was'drawn out by a woman in that name by this document (produced)—this is the person's signature who opened the account, and this is the person's signature who drew out the 100l.—the clerk who paid her is not.

PHILIP FIELD . (Police Inspector). I am stationed at Rochester Row—I copy telegraphic messages—this book is my writing—on 24th May, about 9 p.m., I was instructed by Inspector White to telegraph to the City police in reference to the loss of a chest of tea—I have entered the message I

sent here in my own writing at 9 10 p.m.—Sergeant Powell received the answer.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I did not give evidence against Butcher at the police-court—I have not known him many years—I have not seen him going to the cells in Rochester Bow.

CHAELES HARDINGHAM ( City Policeman). I am stationed at 26, Old Jewry—on 24th May, at 9.10 p.m., I received a telegraphic message from the Metropolitan police, Rocheeter Bow, to make some inquiries—I transmitted the message to all the City stations and received the answer "No"—I then telegraphed "No" to Scotland Yard—this book is in my writing.

HENRY POWELL (Police Sergeant.) I am stationed at Rochester Row—I received the answer by telegram from Inspector Field, and communicated it to Inspector White—I made the entry in my own writing that evening.

INSPECTOR WHITE ( Re-examined,). I saw this paper signed by the prisoner Cooke as M. A. Tapsell—it is attested by her solicitor, Mr. Dutton—having seen her write, I believe the signatures in these two other papers to be hers. (The first was a receipt for various property given up to her, the second was a deposit account at the Birkbeck Bank, dated 19th May, 1880, and the third a receipt for 100l. off the deposit account, signed Mary Ann Taptell, 7th June, 1880.)

By MR. BESLEY. I was asked, "Do you remember on 1st June, the day of the remand, having some drink with Butcher?" I said, "I may have done so "(reading his examination at the police-court)—I not only said that Butcher was an intimate friend, but I very much respected him up to that time—he was taken in custody on Saturday, the 12th, and was taken before the magistrate the same day, I think, and remanded, with out bail, till Friday, the 18th, and kept in prison all those days—you made a remark in consequence of Mr. Wontner objecting to his having bail, and the case went on then day by day.

THOMAS FOINBTT .(Police Inspector B.) I am White's superior officer—on the evening of June 7 he first made a communication to me with reference to what had taken place between himself and Butcher, after that he communicated with me from time to time, and on Thursday, the 10th, between 2 and 3 o'clock, he brought me the handkerchief with the money.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. From 25th May I was generally aware of what was going on as to Cooke but not as to Butcher—White mentioned to me the warning to Blatchford not to take money, but not before June 5—Blatchford went away of his own accord—he did not write to me as the superintendent.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I directed Vincent to place himself in communication with Mr. Wontner, and he acted from time to time entirely under his orders.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have never heard that Mrs. Blatchford has written a letter to the authorities—I heard that she had communicated with Mr. Vincent, and spoke to him about it, but he said that she had not heard from her or seen her—I think White told me so—a warrant is out against Blatchford for absconding from the police—Vincent did not tell me that Mrs. Blatchford had made a statement to Mr. Lovett, the solicitor for one of the prisoners, and that that statement had been put before him—I only heard from White and Preston that they had

heard that she had made a communication to the authorities', but I did not hear Mr. Lovett's name in the matter.

BLANCHARD ALLEN WONTNER . I am a solicitor, of 3, Cloak Lane, City—I have had the whole conduct of this case, being engaged to act as solicitor to the Treasury—the police acted under my orders—on 3rd June I took charge of the prosecution against Cooke and his wife for receiving the tea—I first saw White on this matter on 9th June, but a communication had been made to my partner, Mr. Inman, before that, and I withdrew the charge with reference to receiving the tea, without consulting White, but I consulted the solicitor to the Treasury, and immediately gave notice to the female defendant to attend, and I gave notice to bring the man up, and withdrew the charge—when I heard the particulars of what had taken place between White and Butcher, I made the charge of bribing the police.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Tapsell was charged with stealing the tea—I did not see Blatchford to speak to—his proof was taken, but not in my office—forgive me, his proof was not taken in reference to the tea, but in reference to this conspiracy—I cannot tell you when, but it was given to me at the police-court the first day they were brought up, the 18th—I did not know that he had run away—I do not know who took Blatchford's proof; the copy of it was handed to me—I knew at the time the charge was made that Butcher's father was a licensed victualler, keeping the Cabin—White did not tell me that he was highly respectable; he said that he was an intimate friend of his—White did not tell me that Batcher might have thought he was going to take the money, and that it was a proper dealing: not in those words.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have not seen Mrs. Blatchford's statement—I have made every inquiry and cannot find the existence of such a statement, my information is just the other way—I do not know when Blatchford went—I did not know of his going till I heard Mr. Besley's cross-examination about it—on the 10th June, the very day the prisoners were taken, we went down to the police-court, but it was too late, the Magistrate was gone; but we laid the complaint next day—on 12th Jane they were in custody on this charge—the prosecution was still going on against Cooke for the chest of tea, and they were under remand—I did not abandon the prosecution against Cooke till July 3.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I heard Mr. Besley cross-examine Inspector White about the disappearance of Blatchford, who was called the dodger—I knew that Cooke said that the police had had the tea put into his house in his absence—I think White told me once that he heard that Mrs. Blatchford had made some statement, but he did not tell me the nature of it—that was not in answer to a question put by me to him in reference to Mr. Besley's cross-examination about Blatchford absconding—I cannot fix the date when he told me that, he told it me on a mere rumour, and I paid very little attention to it; it must have been after Blatchford absconded—White did not tell me he believed that Blatchford absconded because he did not want to give evidence, he gave me no reason—I asked him if he knew why he had gone, and he said that he tad no idea—the prosecution commenced at Westminster Police-court, when I was not there, and on the remand Mr. Inman appeared for me—I appeared on the third hearing, the second remand—I do not remember one of the counsel saying that the prosecution was one which ought not

to have been instituted—a great deal of property was taken from Cooke's house, which White had reason to believe was stolen—Mr. D'Eyncourt remanded the case over and over again as the police wished to make further inquiries about the property—I remember White getting into the witness box and saying that he thought there ought to be another remand; I do not remember his saying that he had good reason to believe he should be able to prove that it was stolen property, but it amounted to this, that he thought the property was stolen and that inquiries ought to be made—2,000 worth of deposit notes were taken by the police belong. ing to Mary Ann Tapsell—you applied very frequently for those notes to be given up; I do not recollect White saying that he had reason to believe he could prove that the money, which the deposit notes referral to, was the proceeds of stolen property—I think Mr. D'Eyncourt said something on the last occasion but one about his ordering the notes to be given up on the next occasion, if there was no further evidence of there being stolen property, and on the last occasion the money was given up by Mr. D'Eyncourt as they could not prove it was stolen property; that was on the day I made application to the Magistrate to discharge the prisoners—I had previously communicated with Mr. Vincent lid with the Solicitor to the Treasury as to what course should be taken statements were made to me while the case was proceeding as to Laurence.

He-examined. In the meantime I had directed the police to find out whether the jewellery had been improperly obtained—this (produced)is Blatchford's statement which I have been asked about; this has been given to me since; a copy of it was given to me originally, I believe this is the original in Blatchford's writing—I do not know Blatchford's writting. (MR. SLEIGH contended that this was not evidence, and it was not read.) I have made inquiries since yesterday to fee if Mrs. Blatchford nude a statement and I can End no trace of it.

SQUIRE WHITE . (Re-examined.) I saw Mrs. Blatchford here yesterday, but not this morning—Laurence dressed in dark clothes, a kind of serge suit.

CHARLES WILLIAM INMAN . I am in partnership with Messrs. Wonter—on 4th June I received instructions to prosecute with regard to Mr. and Mrs. Cooke—on Saturday night, 5th June, White made a communication'to me, and on Tuesday, the 8th, Butcher's name was mentioned.

Butcher and Smith received good characters.


NEW COURT, Tuesday, 10th August, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Sergeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-424

424. WILLIAM HERBERT EDWARD JONES (22) , Unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Frank Manley Cobbett a cheque for 110l. Other counts for obtaining cheques to the value of 2,000l. with intent to defraud. Also incurring a debt and liability to F. M. Cobbett of 410l.

MR. GRAIN and MR. TICKELL Prosecuted; MR. RIBTON. and


FRANK MANLEY COBBETT . I am a partner in the firm of Burr and Co., Insurance Agents, of 14, Waterloo Place—we negotiate loans and are agents for the Pelican, the Edinburgh, the Eagle and other Insurance Companies—on the 21st April last the defendant came to borrow 2,000l. on

the mortgage of two farms, which he said were his near Llanelly in Wales—Mr. Burr conducted most of the business in my presence—the defendant aid there were 430 acres producing a rental of about 350l. a year—I told him he could have the money on them—he said he had the farms from his father, and that the deeds were with his father's solicitors, Messrs. Newmarsh and Sewell, of Cirencester, a firm which we knew very well and who were clients of ours—he said, "My father died when I was quite young and left Mr. Newrmarsh my guardian, when I was old enough Mr. Newmarsh sent me to Eton and I was absent about a year"—he mentioned the house he stayed at which I forget, and that he afterwards went to a crammer for the purpose of passing a military examination to go into the service—upon the strength of these statements we undertook the business—he said he wanted money particularly on that very day, and on the 21st April I gave him this cheque for 110l. (this was on the West London and Commercial Bank)—the next day I sent to procure a copy of hid father's will—my clerk spoke to me and on the 24th I told him I had procured a copy of the will and no mention was made of his name, but the property was left to Mr. Newmarsh—he said, "My father was a very old friend of Mr. Newmarsh, he had great confidence in him and he left the property to him in trust for me"—and in answer to Mr. Burr's question in my presence he affirmed that the trust was undeclared—he also said, "When I came of age Mr. Newmarsh placed me in possession of the property, and I have already drawn one half year's receipts, amounting to about 170l., and in June next I shall receive another 170l." and that Mr. Goddard, of Peacock and Goddardrsolicitors, was one of his trustees—I believed his statements and gave him these two cheques on the 24th April for 25l. and 50l.—he came very often—on May the 4th, when he called I told him he must complete the mortgage, and Mr. Burr and the defendant drove to a solicitor in Clements Inn and came back with this mortgage (this was the mortgage of a farm at Ydstradfai, and plot of land at Mynyndsylln, and a receipt for 412l.)—I gave him two cheques for 200l. ind 12l.—I subsequently gave him these cheques May 5th 10l, 6th 5l., 8th 7l, 12th 25l., 21st 6l. and 10l. and 5, 26th 10l., 28th 8l., 29th 5l., and June 5th 8l.—on the 9th of June I said, "Jones this is very serious, you most get me those title deeds, I cannot go on advancing money in this way unless I have some security"—he said, "They are deposited with Mr. Newmarsh"—I said, "Very well you must go down there and get them, because I must have them"—he said, "Very well, I will go"—I said, "Go this evening"—he said, "I cannot because I have not got any money"—I said, "What have you done with all the money I have given you?—he said, "I had a lot of outstanding bills to pay, and I have spent the rest"—I said, "I will let you have another 10l. to go down to Cirencester and you must give me your word of honour that you will go and bring me back the title deeds"—I then cashed the cheque (produced)and gave him the 10l.—I could not give him a cheque because my partner was not in and a cheque of the firm would require two signatures—I believed the statements in the mortgage of 4th May that Mr. Newmarsh had the deeds, and that the prisoner possessed the property and had the power to mortgage it—he never brought the deeds—I knew of no prior charge on the property—I do not recollect his stating the property was unencumbered—he never Mentioned Mr. Sneiling's name to me—I also gave the prisoner various

gums in notes amounting to 25l., and I passed this cheque for 25l. through our bank, so that our clerk should have a check on the transaction—this is one of the prisoner's I. 0. U.'s which that cheque cleared up.

Cross-examined. Mr. Burr is ill at Great Malvern—I never knew that the prisoner mentioned to Mr. Burr his intention to pay Snelling—Mr. Burr gave the prisoner money on more than one occassion—he was not in the habit of getting I.O.U.s from him—I had several—I could not find them—I told the magistrate they were lost—I have only found one—I believe he gave me three—I cannot say if he gave me more—I recollect you asking me about the cheques at the police-court, among them the one for 25l., which the prisoner never saw—it was made up of the amounts which he gave I.O.U.'s for—The cheque was passed through the bank, and was to keep our books straight—I cannot say whether I paid it in or cashed it—one cheque was drawn for 200—we gave him 100l. and arranged to let him have the balance in a day or two, as it was not convenient to pay him the 200l. at once—we kept the cheque in our own possession for several days—it was made payable to Jones's order—the balance was paid him by Mr. Burr in my presence—we paid him 75l. and afterwards 25l. in notes—we are not money lenders—I have been a partner since the 1st January—we recommend people who contract loans to ensure their lives—we suggest the office—in this case we suggested the Eagle and the Empire—we receive commissions for effecting insurances—it would not be fair to the offices to state what, and I would rather net do so—the commissions vary with the different offices—we did not care which office he went to—he claimed when he was 21 years of age to have this property in his hand, and 7,000l. or 8,000l. in money when he was 25—I said so before the magistrate—I am surprised that it is not in my deposition—it is my lawyer's neglect—the prisoner mentioned Mr. Newmarsh the first day he came, and that Mr. Goddard was one of the trustees—I am morally sure of it—that was before he got a farthing—he told us how long he had been of age and in possession of the property—I did not write to Mr. Newmarah till the matter was put into the solicitor's hands—if I had it would have saved all this loss—I did not write to anybody in Wales, nor did Mr. Burr to my knowledge—I do not know Johnson and Head, of Llanelly—I cannot' swear Mr. Burr did not write to them—I do not believe he did—I have had no conversation with Mr. Burr about them—I have not heard their names before to my knowledge—I do not recollect the prisoner mentioning any other name in Wales—he only mentioned Mr. Newmarsh that I could write to—Mr. Patterson was introduced to Mr. Burr—he represented a man who has some property—he is a well-connected man—if Mr. Burr lent him money he lent it out of his own pocket—Patterson's name is on that cheque because Jones wanted to cash it where Pattern was known and Jones was unknown—I was present when Mr. Patterson introduced Jones to Mr. Burr, or half-an-hour afterwards, or a quarter of an hour it may be, not when Patterson first introduced him—Patterson would see me or Mr. Burr, according to who was in—he was not in the habit of introducing customers—Mr. Burr did not pay him a commission for doing so—we should pay him if he asked for it—we do not wish to see Mr. Patterson any more—the prisoner did not tell us at the first interview that the money was left in trust—he told us the farms were left him by his father—the trust was mentioned after we had seen the will and asked

for an explanation—I placed the matter unreservedly in the bands of my solicitor—Mr. Burr fully coincided in my applying for a warrant—I do not know that the prisoner called at our office the day before he was arrested—he never came after I gave him the last 10l.—Mr. Burr and I met him and asked him to go back with us to the restaurant where we had been dining, and talk the matter over, and he said "I cannot go back to the restaurant because I have changed a cheque there and I owe money myself"—I said "Never mind, we will go where you have not changed a cheque". so we went and discussed the matter—he did not then say he was willing to hand us the rents—he insisted that what he said was true, and that one of the firm of Quaker and Co. was staying at the Inns of Court Hotel, and we took a cab and drove to the solicitor, and had a long conversation—he said "Jones, I believe you to be square and straight, I do not believe you are a swindler," and he introduced the managing clerk to Quaker and Co., who are managing this case, and I said to him, "Now, just glean what you can from this young man, whether he is a swindler," and after they had a long chat he said "I am sorry to tell you he has been swindling"—the prisoner promised to pay all—I do not remember his promises, they are not worth remembering—I never said to him "This is: not what I expected, I expected to make a great deal more out of it."

Re-examined. I have only made a loss, and the expense of bringing of you here.

CHARLES GODDARD . I am one of the firm of Peacock and Goddard, solicitors, of South Square, Gray's Inn—I have known for some years Mr. Newmarsh, solicitor, of Cirencester—in June, 1877, he requested me to become a trustee of a voluntary settlement to be made in favour of defendant—I produce the deed which was subsequently drawn up—it relates to a farm, Ydstradfai, and to a smaller farm at Mynydsylln—I handed the defendant a copy of the deed last January—it also relates to some mountain land—the total acreage of the farm was 223 acres—that was let at 1 165l. a year, and the smaller allotment produced 5l. a year—the deed provides for a mortgage upon the land of 550l. at 4 per cent—for 1877 and 1878 the net rental would be 130l. to 135l. a year—afterwards there was a reduction of 10 per cent on account of agricultural depression—the trustees were to have a discretionary power to apply the income for the defendant to the age of 25 for his maintenance and with power to withhold it, with the usual cessor on alienation—it is an absolute cessor, it goes back to the trustees, after 25, provided the defendant did not become bankrupt or alienated, he is then absolutely entitled to the rents for his life, with remainder over to his issue and other parties afterwards—it is entailed—the ultimate remainder in fee is Mr. Thomas Hall, the son of the settlor—the defendant has been of age about a year—the deed states him to be 19 in 1877—before I gave the defendant a copy of the deed I had had numerous conversations with him as to his income—when I took instructions for the deed he was present, and the terms of the then proposed trust were explained to him by Mr. Newmarsh in my presence—I paid him the income at first with regularity, and then circumstances came to my knowledge which induced me to withhold a portion—on more than one occasion I complained to him of the way he was going on with regard to pecuniary matters, and I informed him of his position—I told him he was not absolutely entitled to the property—first of all I him a copy of the deed because I thought it was better he should

not have one—I had my reasons—the request was repeated and I gave him the copy which I see in Court—when I handed him the copy I said "Now you fully understand that you have only a limited interest in this property up to the age of 25, and that you have no right whatever to charge it with a single sixpence"—I pointed out the clauses on the draft, and I believe (though I am not positive about that) I marked them—he did not say anything—he took the copy away with him—this year I kept back some of the income on a communication I received—this letter is his writing—the statements are not correct. (This was dated 15th February, 1880, from the prisoner to Mr. Snelling, stating the farm, alone was worth between 7,000l. and 8,000l.)—the income I have handed over to the defendant during the year is 120l., possibly 125l.—I had no desire to appear against the prisoner—I handed over a portion of the money to the solicitor for his defence in order that he migbt be fairly represented.

Cross-examined. Mr. Newmarsh in abroad—he was aware of the charge at the police-court before he started—he was then in Norway—that was at the second examination—shortly after the prisoner came of age he first asked me for the deed—I am not quite sure that I marked it—I refused him in July and gave him a copy in January—I paid him the income quarterly, by cheque, I think—I did not always see him—my clerk saw him—I got the particulars for the deed from Mr. Newmarsh, the number of acres, &c—the deed says "or thereabouts"—he gave me written instructions—Mr. Newmarsh never told me the value of the property of which Mr. Jones died possessed—I do not know that he had two residences in the county—I never heard of him till I was instructed in the matter in 1877—I never saw the defendant at Mr. Newmarsh's—I never saw him till 1877—Mr. Newmarsh told me he had sent him to school in Germany—I had never heard of Mr. Patterson nor of Burr and Co.—the deed distinctly states that repairs were ordered to be done and the mortgage was to pay for them—I paid 50l. for repairs, for building sheds, and the farm was very old and repairs had to be done before the tenant would take the lease—the lease is from year to year—we have had to make a reduction in the rents—I have never seen the property—there is one tenant—I addressed letters to the prisoner at Marley, Perth—the prisoner lodged with a Miss Blair.

Re-examined. The expression "or thereabouts" after the quantity in deeds is usual—the 550l. was already due at the time of the deed.

WILLIAM HARGREAVE GOODMAN . I am clerk to Mr. John Cole Stogden of 18, Clements Inn—on or about the 26th of April last I took down in shorthand instructions in reference to a mortgage—I produce my original notes—the mortgage was drawn from those instructions.

Cross-examined. Mr. Stogden dictated the deed to me in the defendant's presence—I do not recollect whether Mr. Burr was there.

FRANK MANLKY COBBETT (Re-examined by MR. RIBTON.) I have stated that the defendant said "Since I came of age Mr. Newmarsh placed in possession," and added "so far as paying me the rents went."

ARTHUR SNELLING . I live at 1, Boyle Street, Burlington Gardens—I first became acquainted with the defendant about 6 months ago—that was in reference to borrowing money—I am a money lender—he told me he was a son of a Mr. Jones who had been an officer in the army, that he had property in Wales producing 300l. a year, that it was his own and he was in position to charge it—I received this letter from him (the letter stating the

value of the property's)—I lent him money and he gave me this mortgage (produeed) upon certain property—I know his writing—(Dated 14th February, 1880, between William Herbert Edward Jones, of Marley House, near Blangorri, Pertlishire, and Arthur Snelling, for 550l, in consideration of discounting a 'promissory note for that sum, and dating the yearly income to be 300l.)—I advanced 350l.—the promissory note was for 550l.—it is due the 17th of August—I believed the statements in the documents signed by the prisoner—I am not the prosecutor in this case—I was subpoenaed to come here and to the police-court.

Cross examined. I have not given any authority to use my name as prosecutor in this case—my solicitor communicated with Messrs. Johnson and Stead, solicitors, of Llanelly, before I lent the money—I received an answer—I have it here—it was satisfactory—I advanced the money in consequence of that letter, in conjunction with other matters—the prisoner alto mentioned Mr. Newmarsh's name to me—he did not give me Mr. Newmareh's address—he told me he was his guardian—I gave him 350l., the 200l. was for expenses and interest—I never heard of Mr. Burr till this case.

NEWMAN TUBPIN . (Police Inspector G). On 8th July I apprehended the prisoner upon a warrant at the Criterion Restaurant—I showed him the warrant—on the way to the station he said "Did you say 110l.?" I said "Yes; but I believe that the full amount they charge you with obtaining is 530l." He said "I saw Mr. Burr last night but he mentioned nothing of this"—I made a memorandum of what he said.

GUILTY Recommended to mercy on account of his youth— .— Six Months Imprisonment without hard labour.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, August 11th, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-425

425. THOMAS GRIFFIN (26) , Robbery on John Watts, and stealing a watch, his property.

MR. CARTER. Prosecuted.

JOHN WATTS . I am a matting manufacturer, Three Colt Lane, Lime-house—on 14th July, about 6 o'clock, I was in New Road, Limehouse and saw two men near the bridge apparently looking for something—the prisoner is one of them—he seized me by my throat—I got from his grasp, and as soon as I did so the other got hold of my arms from behind and nearly broke one arm. We went over and over, and the prisoner kept mauling me and catching hold of my hair, and my hair came out, and then he kicked me on top of my head and on my back—I felt his hands in my pockets and they were turned inside out—I said, "Are you men? Do you want to murder, me?" and I had no sooner said so than the prisoner held me by my throat and smashed my head against the wall—the other one was holding me—I saw my watch in his hand and Made a snatch at it; it had a braid guard to it, and then the other one fan—we had a desperate struggle for it, but I got it back—the guard was broken and the bow—he made a sharp run for three or four steps, but Mr. Waller stopped him, and I did not lose sight of him.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was not drunk.

JOHN WILLIAM WALLER . I live at Bridge House, Hope Lane—on 14th july I was standing outside my house about 6 p.m. and saw Watts coming towards me, and the prisoner and a man who escaped, following

him—they walked across to Watts, and hustled him up against the wall about 100 yards from me—they had a struggle, and one man ran up the New Road—the prisoner walked towards me, and I said, "I shall knot you again, old chap. when I see you again." He said, "What for?" I said, "Because you have been stopping that gentleman coming over the bridge and attempting to rob him"—Watts was doing up his clothes. He came up and said, "That is the scoundrel who has been trying to rob me," and showed me his watch, and said, "He has been trying to get it, but could not"—the prisoner said it was all false; he knew nothing about it; he was passing by—I said, "It is a lie; I can trust my eyes"—I had never lost sight of him from the time he was struggling with Watts—he had had a little to drink.

Cross-examined. You were not talking to me for 20 minutes after this happened, only three or four minutes—I sent my father for a policeman.

By the JURY. There was no crowd till he was stopped; no one was in the road by Watts but the prisoner and the man who got away—it is a bye place; there is a wall on each side of the road—I had not got hold of the prisoner, but I should have held him if he had tried to get away—it was daylight.

RICHARD MILES (Policeman K). The prisoner was given into my custody—he said he knew nothing about it—the bow of the watch and the braid were picked up near the stable where the prisoner was given charge—he went quietly to the station.

Cross-examined. Watts was not drunk, but he had had a glass or two; he was very much excited—I told him to keep quiet several times—you were as white as a ghost; your clothes had no dirt on them, but Watts clothes had—you appeared excited—I took you 20 yards or more from where the occurrence took place—the bridge is about 50 yards from the stable.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was that Watts staggered against him and afterwards called "Stop thief," and he teas given in custody, and gave his name and address. Me made the same statement in his defence.

RICHARD MILES . (Re-examined). The prisoner did not give his name and address; I did not ask him.

GUILTY of assault with intent to rob.— Twelve Months Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-426

426. WILLIAM FISHER (30), JAMES BURTON (21), and WILLIAM WARNER (29) , Robbery on Samuel Jeffreys and stealing a watch and chain, his property.

MR. LEVY Prosecuted; MR. FRITH Defended Fisher.

SAMUEL JEFFREYS . I work at a brewery, and live at 48, Inverness Terrace, Paddington—on 30th June, about 25 minutes to 1 at night, I was in North Wharf Road, Paddington, and going into a urinal, was surrounded by half a dozen men—Burton put one arm round my neck and one hand held my throat, and nearlv strangled me—I struggled with phim, and Warner seized my watch and handed it to some other person—I got hold of his coat and was thrown on the ground—his coat then gave way—I received a kick on my eye, another on my nose, a very severe one, of which I shall carry the mark to my grave—they all ran away—Fisher stood by while it was done, but I cannot speak to his taking any active part—he was in the gang, and I recognize him—I do not know whether

he kicked me—this is my watch, it cost 4l. 4s.—part of the chain was picked up on the spot next morning—the ring of the watch gave way.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. There was a lamp at the urinal, and a lamp on each side—I picked Fisher out at the station—he was with Burton, not with other men—I had had a glass of ale, but was sober, because I went to the station by myself with the two hats and part of the coat, and saw Inspector Cox—he is not here.

EDWARD HOGG . I am a dealer, of 44, Hereford Street, Lisson Grove—on 1st July, about 10 o'clock, Fisher spoke to me outside the Wheat Sheaf public-house, where several of us were standing, and asked if anybody would buy a watch—he asked 2l. 10s. for it—I asked him if I might take it into Mr. Walker's; he said "Yes;" and I did so—when I came out I gave it to Fisher again, and said that Mr. Walker said that I was to be careful what I bought out in the street—two or three miuutes afterwards the other two prisoners came up and said, "This is not the watch—I went back into Mr. Walker's shop and they all three came in, and Mr. Walker asked them if it was their watch, and what was the name on it? and said he should detain it, and with that they all went out—I cannot say whether that was the watch I gave back to Fisher.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. Fisher looked as if he had been drinking very hard—he said something about having met some men in a public house, and being asked to go with them to sell a watch—he scarcely seemed to realise what he was doing—he did not appear to mind showing the watch—there were four of us outside, and he exposed it there, and was quite willing for me to take it into Mr. Walker's.

Cross-examined by Warner. Two of you came up afterwards—there was a man in a white jacket, but I do not positively swear to you or Burton.

JOHN WALKER . I am a watchmaker, of 135, Church Street, Paddington—on let July, about 10 p.m., Hogg came in with this watch; I identify it—he went out and returned in a few minutes with Fisher, who went out and then the three prisoners came in together—I swear positively to them all—they used filthy language and said that it was not the watch which the man had brought in—I said that it was, and that I did not think he knew his own property, and I should detain it—he said that it was his own watch—I asked him the maker's name, and put it on the desk and went to the door to see if I could see a constable—as I was at the door they passed by me one at a time, and went up the street—I sent my son to follow them.

PETER MILES (Policeman X 26). On 1st July I was on duty in Church Street, at a little after 10 o'clock, and the three prisoners were pointed out to me—I ran after them and they ran away—I chased them about 250 yards—I caught Fisher—he asked me what I was running after him for—I said that he would have to come to the station with me and see—I took him there, and he said that he was only running to get out of the way.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. He is a bargee—I know nothing against his character, but am told that he drinks heavily.

REUBEN STEVENS (Policeman). I took Burton on 1st July—he only said "I suppose you will take me to the station."

WILLIAM OBOM (Policeman X 211). I took Warner on 2nd July—I went up to him and he ran away—I went to six public-houses and found him at the Red Lion, Harrow Road—I called him out, and he said that he knew nothing about the watch, but I had not mentioned a watch.

Burton's Defence. I was in the Green Man public-house—Fisher came in—I asked him to drink—a boatman came out with a watch and asked me to buy it—I said "No, I have not got enough money"—he said "I have had a row with my mistress and I mean to have a booze to-night, will you pawn it for me?" I went to the pawnbroker's, but it was closed, and then Fisher asked Mr. Hogg if he would buy it. He went into the shop and brought out a different watch, and the boatman would not have it. We all went back to the shop, and the boatman had the same watch in his hand Walker asked him for it and he detained it. My suspicion was aroused; he ran away and I ran too.

Warner's Defence. I was not there that night at all—I was not in the company of these two men.

WILLIAM OBOM (Re examined). I can swear that one of the hats belongs to Burton—he had a different hat on next day, and Warner had a different coat.

FISHER— GUILTY of receiving.— Nine Months' Imprisonment

BURTON and WARNER— GUILTY of robbery with violence.

BURTON PLEADED GUILTY** to a previous conviction in 1878.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

WARNER— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-427

427. THOMAS BUCKLEY (21) , Burglary, in the dwelling-house of James Hefferon, with intent to steal.

MR. GODDARD WILLIAMS Prosecuted; MR. A. B. KELLY Defended.

JAMES HEFFERON . I am a labourer, of 26, Medland Street, Ratchiff—on 5th July, about 2.15 a.m., I was in bed and heard someone lighting matches on the stairs—I got up, lit a candle, and found the prisoner on the stairs, dressed as he is now, but without boots—I said "Holloa, foreman, how did you come in here; which way did you come in?"—he said "In through the door"—I said "No, you could not have come in through the door"—he said he had come for a man named Sullivan—no man of that name lodged in the house: my lodger's name is Welch—I went down with the prisoner to the kitchen and found a pair of boots then, which he said were his, and put them on—a pane of glass in the window was cut clean out—if it had been done with a diamond it could not have been done cleaner—he had unbolted the door to let himself out—I had gone to bed at 10.30—the doors and windows were then safe.

Cross-examined. He was searched at the police-station in my presence—he had no diamond or any hammer or jemmy—he told me that he was a seaman on board the Fire Queen—he offered no resistance—he looked sober—he offered the policeman and me 10s. each to withdraw the charge when he got paid off.

JOSEPH POOLE . (Policeman H 64). Hefferon gave the prisoner into my custody—he said "I will come with you;" I must have been mad"—he said "If you do not mind letting me go I will give you 10s. each to-morrow morning when I am paid off, if you will square the job"—he might have been drinking.

Cross-examined. I found on him an empty match-box and a full one, a pipe and tobacco, but no diamond or instrument of any kind—the pane of glass was clean cut out, and the glass was lying on the ground—it was about 10 or 11 inches by nine—the back door was opened when I got there.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I did not go there witl any intent to do wrong."


Reference Number: t18800803-428

428. WILLIAM ROBERTS (21) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Michael Cook, and stealing a brooch, his property.

MR. SMYTHIES Prosecuted.

ANN HOWARD . I am housekeeper at the Gun Boat, kept by Michael Cooke—on the 12th July, between 1.30 and 2.a.m., I was awoke by a noise in my room and saw a man there—he opened a drawer and turned the things over—I watched him four or five minutes—there was a little lamp on the mantelpiece—I saw him sideways—he saw me looking at him and went out of the room—I got out of bed, lit the candle and followed him—he was then on the landing—this was on the third stair—when he found me coming out to him he escaped by the back room window—the prisoner is the man, I have no doubt about him—I have seen him three or four times before—he had no boots on—Mr. Ebbs's house is next door, and there is a verandah at our back bed room window—when the prisoner got out of the window I saw his full front face—he turned to look at me, and I held the candle to him—I had seen that window closed at 12 o'clock, but not fastened—I did not see him open it, but it was open when he went through it—I missed a gold broach value 18*. from the dressing-table which he had been rummaging—it belonged to the landlord's daughter—on 19th July I took my baby to a doctor at Shadwell and ran against the prisoner on the doctor's step—he turned round three times and looked at me, but I never spoke—on 24th July I met him again, followed him, and gave him in custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were then a few doors from my house, but the doctor's is about 10 minutes' walk off.

ABRAHAM SMITH (Policeman H 398). On 24th July Mrs. Howard gave the prisoner into my charge—I told Him it was for entering the Gun Boat beerhouse about a fortnight ago—he said that he knew nothing about it.

Cross-examined. You were going towards the lodging-house where this occurred, and towards Mr. Ebbs's.

ROBERT EBBS . I live at 106, St. George's Street, and am night watchman at a lodging-house next door to the Gun Boat—on 12th July, between 12.30 and 1 o'clock the prisoner came to me and asked for a night's lodging, but he had not any money—I went to the manager, but when I came back I could not find the prisoner—I searched all over the house for him; upstairs and down, and in every spare bed down to the coal-cellar and in the closet—I searched for him I should think about half a dozen times during the night, and about 5.30 a.m. I found him in a bed which he had no right to be in—I asked him what right he had to be there, and that I had been looking for him all night—he said, "It is not very likely you would find me because I did not come here till 3 o'clock"—it would not have been possible for him to come in at the door without my knowing it—it would be easy for a person to get out of window on to the wall and on the leads of the Gun Boat—he had been a regular lodger for three months, I do not think he missed a night—that was 12 months ago, and then he broke off to one or two nights a week—I have not the slightest doubt he is the man applied on this night—the room where this occurred is called the third room, but it is on the first floor—the ground floor is used as a kitchen—the prisoner was quite sober.

Cross-examined. I am not "on" you because you did not treat me—I do not wish anybody to treat me, I have enough money for myself—it is a

sorry exclusion for me to come here—I do not have any drink once in 12 months—I found no marks outside the window—I did not hear of the robbery until after 11 o'clock on Monday night—the window of one house is close to the other—you step out on to a gas pipe.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "I am a regular lodger at 106, St. George's Street. The door was not shut, it was open; I went straight up to bed. It was dark in the room, he could not see whether I was in bed or not. I was in my bed.

Prisoner's Defence. If I had been guilty I should not have been lurking about like that, only five doors from the place. If I had been disturbed in the room I should not have been fool enough to wait until a woman lit a candle and held it in my face.

GUILTY Twelve Months Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-429

429. JOSEPH HEMMINGS (35), JOHN DEISCOLL (18), ROBEKT PAICE (17), and ANN STEVENS (44) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Charles Leonardt, and stealing two boxes of cigars, a watch, and other articles, his property.

MR. GEOHEGAN and MR. GODDABD WILLIAMS Prosecuted, and MR. SAMPSON appeard for Hemmings.

CHARLES LEONARDT . I am a beer-house keeper at 24, Commercial Road—on the 25th June I locked up my house about 12.30, and between 2 and 3 a.m. I was awoke by a policeman knocking at my bedroom door—I went down, searched the premises, and missed from the front room upstairs a child's bonnet and frock, a coat, watch, and a pipe, and out of the bar two boxes of cigars, a pound of four in hand tobacco, and 8s. in bronze, all of which were safe when I closed the house—Mrs. Sullivan lives next door—she is Hemming'8 mother-in law—this tobacco (produced)is similar to that I have—it was in a packet—this loose tobacco (produced)is similar to what I had, but mine was in a packet—these cigars (produced)are similar to what I had.

Cross-examined by MR. SAMPSON. I can only swear that the tobacco and cigars are similar to mine.

JOHN MCGWYRE . (H 404). On 25th June my attention was called to the rear of 246, Commercial Road—I went through by No. 244 to the rear, and on the back door being open I saw Hemmings on the wall dividing 244, Commercial Road from No. 1, Star Street—Mr. Leonardt's house is at the corner of Star Street and Commercial Road—it was then from a 1/4 to 1/2 past 2 o'clock—Hemming slipped off the wall into the yard of 1, Star Street—I got on the wall and over the roof of the water closet, and saw him standing in the yard directly opposite me—the woman was standing in the doorway of No. 1, Star Street, and two more were standing close to me—they wore hats and their dress was similar to what it is now, but I could not see the woman's face—it was quite light, day broke at 1.30—I heard a noise of something falling into boxes, one of them had a packet of cigars in his hand with a slip of paper round it—I was collecting myself to spring on the top of them when a brick gave way, and when I looked again they had gone to 1, Star Street—there is no communication with that and any other house—I went into No. 1, and saw Hemmings in the front room—before I spoke to him, he said, "You have got the wrong man this time"—I said I should take him into custody for breaking and entering 246; Commercial Road—he

made no reply—I found the back parlour window of 246 raised as high as it would go, and the back door open—the bolt of the window had been shoved back and I found the tobacco pipe and cigars on the window-sill outside—I made this examination ten minutes after Hemmings went into 1, Star Street—I took him to the station before I searched him—he said, "You will find three halfpence on me"—I found on him 1s. in silver, 5 ¾d. in bronze, this tobacco-box, and cigars: and the pocket which the tobacco-box was in was full of loose tobacco—the prisoner Stevens was in the loom with Hemmings—she said something, but I do not remember what—on the same day I went to the Clyde public-house at 12.45, and took Driscoll—I told him—the charge—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I searched him at the station and found a shilling on him, and 7¾d. in bronze, this brooch, these cigars, a half ounce package of tobacco, and part of one—he gave no account of how ho got the tobacco—he said, "I bought the cigars yesterday at the North Woolwich Gardens."

Cross-examined by MR. SAMPSON. This was a very small yard—there is a lamp there—the wall is 11 feet high—it was quite light without any lamp—I am prepared to swear to Hemmings—I stood on the wall watching three men and a woman—they had the box of cigars between them—they had their hands towards it—the window-catch was merely moved back in the ordinary way.

PATRICK ENRIGHT . (Policeman H 55). On 25th June, at 3.40 a.m., I went to 1, Star Street to the front room, second floor, and saw Stevens and Rose Field—I said to Stevens "How do you account for being in the room—she said "I live here, the house is mine"—a woman outside said "No you don't live here"—Stevens said "I must allow I don't live here, I came here last night with a man"—I said that she would be charged, with a man in custody and two others not in custody, with breaking and entering 246, Commercial Road, between 2 and 3 o'clock that morning—she said "All I know about it is I was in the yard and saw three men there; you have got the wrong man in Hemmings"—on the way to the station she said "Do your best you can not give me more than 12 months for this; if I thought you were coming back the second time you would have had me there before you"—further on she said "I would not have been there last night if I had the price of my bed"—when she was charged she said "at 10 o'clock last night I went to a public-house in Whatney Street, along with Rose Field; I met a man there; I got drunk and he brought me home; the man I do not know"—Mr. Leonardt gave me this knife—there are marks on it as if it had been used to put the window back—I tried it, and put back the catch with it—on the same day I went to the Clyde public-house, and saw Paice and Driscoll—I had a short consultation with Constable Wire in the public-house, and then took Paice and told him the charge—he made no reply—on the way to the station he said "It is all up with me now"—I searched him at the station and found a shilling and a farthing—he tried to conceal the farthing—I saw this tobacco and cigar found on Driscoll.

ROSE FIELD . I live at 2, Star Street, Commercial Road, which is the first house round the corner—it is a mistake calling it No. 1: No. 1 is on the opposite side—it is next door to the side door of the beerhouse—on 25th June, about I am., I had occasion to go into the yard, and saw a young man with a black and white scarf on the wall—that was Paice, and

I saw Driscoll standing against an old chest of drawers in the yard—a man rushed out of the closet and knocked me into the dust-hole, but I never saw his face—they were dressed as they are now—I saw no woman with them—Mary Ann Stevens came to our place about 10 or 10.30, and stopped till morning, when she was taken; but part of the time she was in the public-house in Whatney Street, and came back at 12 o'clock—I was with her and Mrs. Sullivan—Hemmings had been in the house that night and left at a quarter to 1 o'clock.

Cross-examined by MR. SAMPSON. The police never mentioned Hemmings to me—the man who passed me in the yard and knocked me into the hole was not Hemmings—he was not in the yard at the time I saw Paice and Driscoll—he did not lodge in the house—it is a brothel—I am an unfortunate woman.

Cross-examined by Driscoll. I am not a returned convict—I did not give information the same night, because my husband had been ill-using me, and I was afraid to go outside the door—he had been there three nights before, and that night he came again, and they had to take him to the station.

Cross-examined by Paice. I saw you on the wall—You could not have been in bed at the time.

Cross-examined by Stevens. You did not come out of the front room while I was in the downstairs room—I went to bed about 1.30 or 1.45.

SARAH LBMANB . I am female searcher at King David Lane station—I searched Stevens and found on her 15s. 3d. in silver and 8d. bronze.

Driscolls defence. Do you really think this woman's evidence ought to be taken. She is a returned convict. I am innocent. I bought the tobacco.

Paice' defence. I was at home at 10.30, and did not come out till 10 a.m., so how could I be on the wall?

Stevens's defence. I went home from a public-house and went to sleep in the front room, and knew no more till the constable came and took me from my bed. If I went into the yard it must have been in a drunken sleep. I do not remember it.

HEMMINGS.— [Guilty: See original trial image.] Twelve Months' Imprisonmeuts .

DRISCOLL** and PAICE**— GUILTY . They also PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions, Driscoll in 1877 and Paice in 1879.— Five Years' Penal Servitude each. STEVENS— NOT GUILTY .

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, August 11th, 1880.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-430

430. EDWARD EASTOFF (47) and JAMES RIDGLY (47) , Unlawfully conspiring to obtain goods and moneys by false pretences from Robert Tourney and others.


ROBERT TOURNEY . I live at 1, Lavinia Terrace, Highbury, and formerly carried on business in colours in Brunswick Place, City Road—Eastoff called to see me about 16th January—he said he was carrying on a large business as decorator at Regina Road, Tollington Park, that he employed German artists because English artists were not good enough to do the work—I said I required a reference—at the back of this order

(produced) was written, "81, Regina Road, Tollington Park," and "Mr. Halliday, 14, Barnsbury Street, Islington"—his own address was written by a man named Smith—I wrote to Mr. Halliday and received this reply: "With regard to Mr. Eastoff, he has been a customer of mine for many years, and I can with confidence recommend him to you. I consider him safe for 50l. Faithfully yours, H, Halliday"—after getting that letter I went to 14, Barnsbury Street—I believe I saw Ridgly, but he had then a heavy beard on—I referred to the letter I had received—I had very little conversation; it was raining hard—a few days afterwards Eastoff called again, and I let him have goods to the amount of 53l. 8s. 4d.—he sent a bill on a 2d. stamp, which I returned—he brought a second bill written on 2d. stamp. Mr. Robins, who assisted me in the business, drew out a fresh bill on a 3d. stamp and he accepted it in the office—the bills were payable at the London and County Bank for 25l. each—I paid the first bill into my bank, the London and Provincial, at Kingsland Road—it was returned to me—I went to the bank and found he had no account there—I called at Regina Road several times, but was not able to see Eastoff again.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I cannot say Eastoff wrote the letter signed Halliday—I was inquiring for the house when the man who said he was Halliday said, "This is 14"—I never went into the house—the letter has been torn coming off the file—that is the only way I know it was torn—my writing is not in the letter, you will see it on the bills.

CHARLES WILLS . I am a carman, of 45, Barnsbury Street, Islington—in January Eastoff came to me and said he wanted a van to remove some things from Brunswick Place to Regina Road, City Road, Finsbury Park—I removed goods on three occasions—I saw the van start—my son went with the van—Ridgly went with it on one occasion.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I had seen Ridgly before—I have no doubt about him.

AETHUE CHARLES WILLS . I am the son of the last witness—I remember going with a van from my father's shop to Brunswick Place, Mr. Tourney's, to remove goods on two or three occasions—I saw both the prisoners on each occasion—they went with me, and Ridgly assisted me to load and unload the goods.

EDITH ROBERTS . I am the wife of Edward George Roberts, of 14, Barasbury Street—the beginning of this year Ridgly lodged at my house in the name of Halliday—he then had more whiskers—I am quite sure of him.

Cross-examined by MR. MITCALFE. I never saw him write—I have heard the woman he was living with was not his wife—I have not heard that his wife has since died and he has married that woman.

ALPHEUS THOMPSON . I am cashier at the London and County Bank, Islington branch—on the 3rd April this bill was presented for payment—it is marked E. K. Eastoff—no such person has an account there—it was returned "No account"—on the 29th April this bill was presented and also returned "No account."

JOHN COLLINS STEPHENS . I am a barrow maker, of 484, Old Kent Road, New Cross—I formerly lived at 430 in the same road—on 80th July I received the letter produced (asking for price list of steps and ladders to be sent to 20, Barnsbury Street, Islington)—the 18l. 19s. 6d. on the back is my writing—I sent a list to the address given—on the 31st I received

this letter (enclosing order for ladders) trussels, to the fame address, signed H. Lewis)—the next day I went there—this note was left for me: "Dear Sir, I regret I cannot stay to see you, being very busy. Send with the things the invoice, so that I may send the draft; Yours faithfully H. Lewis"—I also received a third letter: "Aug. 6th. Dear air, send trussels to-morrow night. Send ladders next week. I will call next Monday. Yours faithfully, H. Lewis"—I left the goods—I received this letter on 13th August from a carman: "Dear sir, please deliver to bearer the steps and short ladder. I shall have a van your way on Friday and will send you the other notes and draft for 21l. The short ladder can go in the next account. Yours faithfully, H. Lewis"—I let him have the goods—on the 15th August the van called again, and the driver gave me this letter: "Dear sir, I enclose you draft for 21l. You will please deliver to bearer the rest of the goods. Faithfully yours, H. Lewis"—I endorsed the bill which was enclosed—I let the carman have the goods—before that Eastoff came to my house—he said, "I am Mr. Lewis. I want to see the things you have been making for me"—I showed him the things—he said he was a retired builder, but he could not remain idle, he was acquainted with a good many 'architects and surveyors, and they advised him to start again, and that was why he wanted the things—I have not been able to get my money—I saw the things subsequently at Mr. Tourney's.

Cross-examined by Eastoff. I presented the bill at your place, but you were not known there—I was told you were only a lodger and had gone.

CHARLES DEARING . I live at 61, Hereford Street, Essex Road—on the 20th Augnst Eastoff called on me and offered some scaffolding steps and other things for sale—he said his place was in Barnsbury Street—I bought the goods and paid him 25l. in all for them—he gave me this receipt (produced;) I saw him write it—Stephens afterwards called and identified a great portion of the property as his—I also bought some pawn-tickets relating to steps, which were also identified by Stephens.

Cross-examined by Eastoff. I gave you a fair price—you gave the name of Lewis, not Eastoff.

GEORGE BRODIE . I am employed by Mr. William Morrison, of 9, John Street, Bedford Row, financial agent—in consequence of directions I lent a form to James Halliday, 14, Barnsbury Street, Islington—it was returned filled up as it is now in this letter (making appointment for 12 o'clock on Monday)—I went to keep the appointment—I saw Ridgly in the parlour—I said, "Mr. Halliday?"—he said, "Yes"—we discussed the terms—he wanted a loan of 20l., and said, "How much shall you charge me?" I said, "5l."—he said, "How shall I pay it back?" I said, "The usual rate, 2l. 10s. a month"—he was to pay for a registered bill of sale—I said, "Does the furniture belong to you?"—he said, "Yes, the whole of it"—I said, "I should like to go up stairs"—he said, "You cannot, as my lodgers will be alarmed"—I said, "Can I go down stairs?"—he said, "You cannot, because letting apartments, we live down there, and my wife has bronchitis"—I said, "The best plan will be to make your own inventory"—I then made an appointment to meet him at Mr. Chadwick's, a solicitor—I am not sure whether he signed the form—I received the inventory—the bill of sale was carefully read to him—he said he was perfectly satisfied—I gave him the 20l., and then asked him for 5l. interest which was provided for in the bill of sale—on the 16th he called

upon me and said, "l am hard up; will you lend me another 5l.?"—believing his statement, I said I had no objection—on the first interview I said, "How long have you been here?"—he said, "The form will tell you"—I said, "Let me look at your last receipt for rent"—he then gave me this receipt—I called his attention to the signature, and said it was not the same as the landlord's signature on the form—he said, "Oh, that is all right; you will see the landlord's initials at the bottom"—I parted with my money because he represented himself to be a householder, and that the furniture was entirely his own.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. No writing took place in the room while I was there—my first interview lasted for about 20 minutes—I saw him on three occasions.

Re-examined. I do not know whether he can read or write.

GEORGE EDWARD ROBERTS . I have lived at 14, Barnsbury Street over 14 years—I rent the house—Ridgly lodged there in the name of John Halliday—I paid 55l. a year—when Ridgly left he owed about 28s.—the furniture in my house never belonged to him.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. We had three or four lodgers—they have left.

EDITH ROBERTS . I am wife of the last witness—Ridgly lodged at our house, 14, Barnsbury Street—I was in the habit of seeing him daily.

EDWARD HEARNE . (Policeman). On 2nd July I took Ridgly into custody—he said "What do you want me for?" I replied "For being concerned with a man named Eastoff and others in trying to obtain a quantity of goods—he said "O! I can get out of that"—at the corner of Brewery Road he said "What are you going to charge me with?" I said "Being a reference for Eastoff." He said "If so they have got to identify me"—I knew Ridgly 18 months—he wore a beard.

PHILIP SHRIVES . (Policeman.) On 18th June I took Eastoff into custody—I told him I had a warrant to apprehend him for obtaining a quantity of white lead and paint from Brunswick Place—he said he was rather surprised at their taking proceedings after all that time—further on he said he could get out of that, it was only a debt.

EASTOFF*— GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a similar conviction in June, 1875.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

RIDGLY*— GUILTY . Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18800803-431

431. JAMES MILES (28), ROBERT BAILEY(27), RICHARD DONOVAN (20), and PHILLIP PHILLIPS (40) , Stealing 1 1/2 cwt of Brazil nuts from William Grant, the master of Miles. Second Count—charging BAILEY,DONOVAN, and PHILLIPS with receiving.


MESSRS. GILL and RAVEN Prosecuted; MR. SMYTHIES appeared for Bailey; MR. A. METCALFE appeared for Phillips.

WILLIAM HARDING (City Detective). On the 17th July I was in Philpot Lane watching the premises of Messrs. Mill and Grant, of Botolph Lane—about 7.10 a.m. I saw Bailey leave the warehouse, No. 35, carrying a bag of Brazil nuts on his back—I watched him to Fish Street Hill, where I saw Donovan standing with a barrow—Bailey threw the bag of nuts on the barrow—Donovan wheeled the barrow—Bailey pushed behind—I went into Cannon Street for a man named Rogers who was charged and ischarged—Donovan,

Bailey, and Rogers went through King William Street Moorgate Street to the corner of For, Street where they went in to a public house, leaving the barrow of nuts outside—I stayed about 20 minutes, when all three came out, Donovan and Rogers wheeled the barrow towards london Wall, Bailey went towards the Bank sent Detective Davidson after him and he brought him back—I afterwards stopped Donovan and Rogers—I told them I was a police officer and asked them what they had in the barrow—Donovan said "A bag of nuts"—I said "Where did you get them from?"—he said "I bought them of a man on London Bridge"—I said "How much did you give for them?—said" 45s., I had to borrow 2l. of Rogers-Rogers made no reply—I asked Bailey, who had been brought back if he knew anything of the men—he said "No, I know nothing about it"—I said "I saw you leave Messrs. Mill and Grant's warehouse this morning with nuts, and I shall take you all to the station and you will all be charged with stealing nuts"—I took them to the station—after I had explained the case to the inspector, Donovan said "I bought them in the barrow of a man who had some business in the East End"—these are samples of the nuts—the same afternoon about three I went past Messrs. Mill and Grant's, 30, Pudding lane—I saw Miles—he made a statement to me—Mr. Grant and Mr. Taylor were present—at the Mansion House Bailey said "What Miles said is quite right, he did let me in"—on the 23rd I went to Kingston—I saw Phillips leave the train from London—I said "I am an officer of the London Police—I have a man named Bailey in custody for stealing a quantity of nuts"—he said "Yes, I know"—I said "I have traced a quantity of nuts to you by South Western Railway"—I asked him about his shops—he said he had shops, and "I have not had any Brazil nuts this season"—I reminded him that he had some—after hesitation he said Yes, I had them—I said "Who did you get them from?"—he said "Piggott"—I said "Who is he?"—he said "A porter"—I said "How much did you give for them?"—he said "42"—I said "Have you any order or invoice?"—he said "No, I have none; I do not keep them"—he said Piggot sent them down, he called for them the same day and sent him the money—I then went with Mr. Grant, Junior, to One Acre Road, Kingston-on-Thames Phillips' place—there I found in a basket a quantity of Brazil nuts—I said "Here are the nuts"—he said "Yes, they are some of the last parcel I had, they came down on Friday" Mr. Grant then turned over the stock and found another basket—it was a private house with a bar window fitted up as a shop, with oranges, lemons, and sweets in the window—I told him he would be charged with stealing the nuts—I brought him to Seething Lane Police Station—he said he thought they were all right, but he was sorry he had had anything to do with them.

Cross-examined by Donovan. I saw Miles in Mr. Grant's counting house—he was asked if he knew the man I had in custody—he did not mention your name, he knew nothing of you—he was not asked if you paid any money.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALPE. I believe Phillips carries on large business—I do not know what firms he deal with in London—he said "I know all about it—I have been up to London about it to-day"—Piggott was an old man about there, he has absconded—Phillips shewed me his place without any concealment—he has been there some years.

Re-examined. Phillips was convicted of stealing a crate of broccoli and

sentenced to four months imprisonment—the officer is here—this was mentioned at the Mansion House—I do not know that Piggott had a place of business.

RICHARD GRANT . I am a broker, carrying on business with my son and Charles F. Taylor, in the City—I had a quantity of Brazil nuts in stock—They were kept at 35, Botolph Lane, in some cellars—I saw a bag of similar nuts at Seething Lane police station—their value is 24s. a cwt.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. The market has gone down, but on 17th July the market price was about 42s. per bag of 1 1/2 cwt.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITHIES. Bailey is a labouring man in our trade, or barrow man—I was told he was not a porter.

Cross-examined by Donovan. I sent for Miles on the 22nd, the day the case was tried at the Mansion House—he was brought into the counting house—he said he had received money from Bailey and two other men not in custody—I do not recollect his having said that he received any from you—as a buyer the amount you paid would be put on the order you received—you give that order up, but it would come back the next day—I sell by auction—the man gets an order for delivery, and the order is given up on discharge of the goods—the bag was old—I said I did not know anything about it—it was not a barrel sack—it may have been sound when taken to the station, I do not know.

Re-examined. A barrel sack Contains 3 1/4 bushels—Bailey is not a man who carries—he is employed principally by one of my competitors, Keating and Hunt—the warehousemen begin business about 7.30.

GEORGE SIMPSON . I live at 1, Botolph Alley—I am house-cleaner at 35, Pudding Lane, which is occupied by Mr. Grant—nuts are kept there and at Botolph Lane—Miles was porter to Messrs. Mill and Grant—I was in the warehouse at 6 a.m.—the time for opening was 7.30—Miles came to 35, Pudding Lane, and opened it at 6.50 on the 16th and 17th, and he frequently came before that—that has been going on for two months or more—the keys of Botolph Lane are kept on the counter in the counting house—he has been there at 6.40.

RICHARD JOSEPH GRANT . I am the son of Richard Grant, the prosecutor in this case—I went with Harding to Kingston-on-Thames—I saw Phillips at the station, and heard the conversation that took place—Phillips said he had bought none at all this season—there was no trade for them—Harding then told him he had some Brazil nuts in his place—we went to his place and saw a basket with some nuts in—he said that was all he had—then I found another basket with some more in—we went out in the yard—we could not find any more.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Phillips said "That is the last bag that came down"—he was rather confused—I noticed his throat working considerably.

GEORGE WELLS . I am a clerk in the parcels department of the South Western Railway—on the 16th July I received a bag for Phillips, of Kingston—that was sent off to the best of my knowledge—I have seen Bailey bring bags to the office within the last two months.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITHIES. I do not know what Bailey is—I have seen him bring them more than once.

THOMAS WRIGHT . I live at Kingston-on-Thames—I am a parcel carman in the service of the London and South Western Railway—I know Phillips—I

have delivered at his house—the last was on the 16th July—he said once before that a bag should be 1 1/2 cwt.

JAMES MILES . I have pleaded guilty to this indictment—I was taken into custody in the prosecutor's employment—on the 16th July, when I went in at 30, Pudding Lane, I took the keys, opened the door, put my apron on and went away to my breakfast—afterwards I met Piggott, who told me something about the nuts, and paid me 8s.—Bailey never paid me for any nuts.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITHIES. He was carrying the nuts on his back from the warehouse.

Cross-examined by Donovan. You never spoke to me about nuts, nor asked me to do anything wrong.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I knew Piggott in the transaction, not Phillips at all.

Witnesses for Phillips.

ARTHUR CALDER . I am a greengrocer at Norbiton—I hare known Phillips eight or nine years—he has been carrying on business at Kingston eight or ten years—I produce a bundle of his invoices for inspection—I have gone to market with him—I know Piggott—he buys nuts—he is a bumaree, that is, he buys or sells—on the 17th July I was with Phillips at Kingston market—I saw Piggott—in conversation Phillips said to Piggott "By-the-bye, how much is that bag of Brazils you sent me yesterday morning?"—Piggott said 42s. or 43s., I will not swear which, and I saw Phillips give him two sovereigns, and put his hand in his pocket for the remainder—I was not aware Phillips had been convicted—he has conducted himself as an honest man since I knew him.

Cross-examined. These are receipts for goods sold to Phillips—I do not know if Piggott has a place of business—he had a wholesale trade—he supplied all the big shops in Surbiton—I never bought of him.

Re-exmined. Large firms would give invoices to Phillips, but as a bumaree I never had an invoice.

ROBERT LEVY . I am a salesman in the Borough Market—I have known Phillips six or seven years coming to the market—I have trusted him with money and found him honourable—he is a respectable tradesman, and bears a good character.

FREDERICK ELLIS . My father is a salesman, and carries on business at 3, York Street, and in the Borough Market—I have known Phillips seven or eight years—I always had ready money of him, and found him honest and respectable.

Donovan's defence. I am a costermonger—I bought this bag of Brazil nuts of a man I met on London Bridge—he asked me 50s. for them—I offered him 2l., and at last bought them for 45s.—if I had known the bag was stolen I should have concealed it, and I should not have given so high a price for them—it is a common thing for one costermonger to buy of another.

BAILEY— GUILTY . Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

DONOVAN** and PHILLIPS** [Guilty: See original trial image.] PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions.— Five Years' Penal Servitude each.

MILES** also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction in March, 1877, at Croydon.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, 12th August, 1880.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-432

432. JOHN GUDOTTI , Feloniously killing and slaying Florence Ann Oliver.

MR. ISAACSON Prosecuted; MESSRS. POLAND and GILL Defended.

THOMAS REID . I live at 6, Short's Gardens', Endell Street, and am a house-painter—on Wednesday, 7th July, between 11 and 12 p.m., I was standing near a baker's shop in Seven Dials, at the corner of White Lion Street—I saw the prisoner driving one of Carlo Gatti's carts in a careless manner—when the cart passed me I heard a screech—I rushed to the spot—I saw the off wheel go over the lower portion of the girl's back, the horse attempted to stop—I had noticed the reins were loose in the prisoner's hands, and flopping on the horse's head, as if it was fatigued with the journey—it was going at a jog trot, five or six miles an hour—I called the attention of a police-constable and pursued the cart—the prisoner went on as if he was not aware of it—I saw a policeman stop the cart—I picked up the boy, who was also run over—I persuaded the woman to go into a cab and the girl was pat on her lap—I did not think she was injured—she asked for her mother—the inner side wheel skidded the boy's neck for about 18 inches along the road—his head was under the cart—I placed the boy in a cab and another young man took the girl and put her in the woman's lap—I was agitated.

Cross-examined. The constable was at the inquest—I don't know his name—the verdict was accidental death—the girl was about 6 years of age, the boy was younger—they were running hand-in-hand across the road.

GEORGE MOORE . I am a butcher in Soho—on the 7th July I was outside the Clock House in St. Andrews Street, coming along with a pony—I saw the prisoner in an ice-cart coming from St. Martin's Lane in the direction of St. Andrew's Street, at the rate of about six miles an hour—I saw the two children standing in the road, then some people halloed to them—the prisoner took no notice, but went on—there was nothing to prevent his seeing them—he could have pulled up if he liked—he went on after the accident four or five houses at about the same pace—he seemed to be asleep—I saw a man run after the cart—a policeman stopped it.

Cross-examined. His head was hanging down—the cart was going at a proper pace—I am accustomed to driving—the horse knocked the children down, the near hind leg struck the girl, the boy was struck full-butt—the children did not look for the cart before they ran across.

MARGARET MARY CARTRIDGE . I witnessed the occurrence from my window—I saw the two children hand-in-hand crossing the road—the horse's feet touched the children, and sent them down—the cart was not going fast, only like walking—I have not been examined before on this matter—the cart was stopped—I saw the men pick up the little boy and the little girl—I had my subpoena on Monday night.

JOHN NOLLOTH (Policeman E 186). About 1/4 past 11 a.m., on July 7th, I was walking towards Broad Street on the right hand side of the road, I heard a noise in the rear—I turned round and saw a mob of people running after an ice cart—some one called out to stop it—I ran across the road—by the time I had got there it had stopped—two men were in the cart—the prisoner seemed frightened at what he had done—he seemed perfectly sober—did not say anything—I asked if anybody had witnessed the occurrence

and took two women's names and addresses who were standing at their doors, Mrs. Porter and Mrs. Willis—they are not here—I then took the name and address of the prisoner and reported it at the station.

Cross-examined. The cart drew up to the side of the kerb—Mrs. Willis and Mrs. Porter were examined at the inquest I believe.

JAMES OLLIVER . I am a fishmonger of 24, Queen Street, St. Giles—I am the father of the two children—the girl's name was Florence Anne Oliver—she was 6 yearsold—I remember on the Wednesday a lady coming to me about it—I ran out and found a woman in a cab with the two children—I told her to get out, and got in, and drove to Charing Cross Hospital.

Cross-examined. The little boy is 6 years old—he was not much injured.

FRANK SPENCER WATSON . I am house-surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital—the little girl was brought there on Wednesday, the 7th July—she was suffering from a severe collapse, and she had bruises on both buttocks—I held a post-mortem, examination—in result I found the bladder ruptured and bruised intestines—the internal corresponded with the external injuries—the hip-bone was fractured.

Cross-examined. The injuries would be caused by the wheel of a cart passing over her.

ROBERT BELL (Policeman E 224). I apprehended the prisoner on Sunday, the 11th, on Mr. Gatti's premises, New Wharf Road—I understood he did not know English, so I asked him no questions.


Reference Number: t18800803-433

433. HENRY HOLLAND (45) and EMANUEL SOLOMON (38) , Stealing a large quantity of shells, the property of Samuel Samuels . Also receiving the same.

MR. GILL Prosecuted; MR. LILLEY Defended Holland; MESSRS. KEITH FRITH and S. R. GROOM Defended Solomon.

WILLIAM FREDERICK BINNS . I live at 451, Bethnal Green Road—I am in the service of Messrs. Samuels & Co., and have been for seven years, as a packer—lately I have been foreman—it was my duty to go to 7, East Smithfield in the morning to open the premises—I was also there last at night, and shut up the premises—I took away the key with me—Holland was also in Messrs. Samuels' employment before I went there, as a cleaner of shells—about 12 months ago Holland spoke to me about some shells—he said he knew where to sell some goods, and we could get a few shillings if I liked—the goods were to be taken early in the morning, and he would take them—I agreed to it—he had two cases of clams—that was the first transaction—the time of opening was 8 o'clock—Holland met me there and took the clams away—I took them from the ground floor—I got 1l. for them from Holland—the next transaction took place in about a month or six weeks—I made the acquaintance of Solomon about eight or ten months ago at Holland's place in Settle Street, Commercial Road, one evening after my work was done—there was a conversation about shells—I do not exactly recollect it—the goods were to come from Samuels'—I stayed about an hour—only Solomon, Holland, and myself were present—I do not think any money passed—Solomons wanted more shells—I sometimes got 30s. and sometimes 2l.—I used to see Solomon occasionally after that, sometimes at his house and sometimes at the Red Cross public-house, close to my employers', in the evenings—I did not go to his house very often, about once in, perhaps, two or three

months—I went to see if he wanted anything—he used to tell us what he wanted; we used to agree on the price, and we used to send the goods round when the money was paid—Holland generally took them—I never did—Solomon only paid me on one Saturday afternoon when he came for the goods—Holland divided the money with me—I used to send him clams, spiders, white murix, rose murix, bull nose, melons, snails (the snails were cleaned), and merospikes, cleaned white ears, cleaned red ears, cleaned green ears, and cleaned black ears, also nautiluses and mitres—the shells in a case were sent in a truck—when they were cleaned they were carried round—they were not packed, but loose in a basket, according to what they wanted—I made no alteration in the case when it went away, I sent it out just as I took it from the stock—on one occasion some large snails went—I was paid 1s. each for those—my master sold them for 2s. or 2s. 6d.—I also remember some bulls' months going, also some bulls' mouths, clams, and spiders—that was about the beginning of May—on that occasion Mr. Marcus Samuels came into the warehouse and asked me a question—when Holland came back he asked him where he had been—Holland said for the sugar baskets—one Saturday afternoon after that I was on Tower Hill about 4.45. Holland was with me—we close at four on Saturdays—Tower Hill is seven or eight doors from my masters' place—we had just come out of the Red Cross public-house—we met Solomon coming towards Mr. Samuels' shop—he asked us if we would let him have some goods out, and we agreed—he said he wanted some clams, melons, and spiders—he said if we liked he would go and get the cart and get them away that afternoon—we agreed, and he went away to get the cart—when he had gone, Holland and I went back to the warehouse and got the things out—we had shut the warehouse, and we went and re-opened it—we got two cases of clams, a case of spiders, and a case of melons—we took the cases just as they were, without doing anything to them—the van came and backed up the gateway to the warehouse—Solomon was not there, but there was a carman driver—the cases were loaded on the van and taken away—that must have been from 5.15 to 5.45—after we had shut the warehouse up and got away, Solomon gave me 4l. 10s.—that was divided with Holland—the value of these stores are from 12l. to 15l.—one day in June I called on Solomon; he was not at home—I went in the evening and saw him—he told me he wanted some small white ears, some rose murex, and some turbos—he offered me 10s. for the six dozen turbos and 4s. a dozen for the rose murex—the turbos are worth 4s. a dozen, and the rose murex are worth from 15s. to 20s. a dozen if cleaned, but they were in the rough—the turbos were cleaned, and were worth 46s. a dozen—Solomon asked me if I knew anything about the row at the shop; some one had been selling shells under cost price. He knew it was not him, because he heard it was somebody that did not know the trade—I told him I did not know—I was spoken to by Mr. Samuels and a detective—I made a statement to them—I got instructions from them—Holland came next on the 23rd—I gave him six dozen rose murex, six dozen white ears, six dozen turbos, and 10 or 12 large red ears—they were put in a hamper—he took them away—that hamper was afterwards shewn me—I also saw some cases at the station like those taken.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. I had been in Messrs. Samuels' service six years when we started—the last basket of shells were sent with my

master's knowledge—I have been told if I gave information I should not be prosecuted—I then charged my fellow servant—I did not think the more I said against him the better it would be for myself—I have received 15l. or 20l.—my wages are a guinea a week—sugar baskets are used in the trade, and it was Holland's duty to fetch them—I gave some shells to Solomon in February—I remember it because we had a carpenter at work in the shop, and it was a Saturday afternoon—two lots went in May—a young man in the shop went to Cannon Street to get come iron bars and while he was gone the goods were taken, and we fix the date by the bill, which was put on the file—it was the latter end of May that I saw Holland on Tower Hill—the cases are marked according to the different shells—I do not clean shells—Solomon did—he was also a porter—Messrs. Samuels used to import the cases—they do not sell original cases in London—they deal with customers in London and the country in all parts.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. I had no reason to complain of Messrs. Samuels, they treated me with every kindness and consideration—I robbed them on the first suggestion—I never told Solomon that Messrs. Samuels had a grudge against him—I do not know of any trade jealousy between them—I never heard of it—I will not swear it—when Holland said he had been for the sugar baskets, I knew it was a lie—I was then a confidential servant—we give invoices unless the quantity is small—I know Mrs. Crowning—we have not always given her invoices—she paid cash—we supplied Messrs. Drayson—anything above 10s. or 12s. they would have invoices for—I do not know whether I shall be kept in my situation—I have never asked—I am not going against Solomons for any benefit—I have not been told if he was convicted I should be retained—I hope to be—I heard my evidence read over at the police-court, not at Mr. Wontner's office—I did not ask to see what I had said—I first conversed with Solomon in a public-house close to his house—we did not go to his house—I have not received money and not accounted for it—there are no defalcations in my accounts—a large trade is done in shells—I do not know of many small houses—there are shell-bag manufacturers, and they are small houses—I know Mr. Antoine Jamrach by sight—I do not know that he imports thousands—it is next to impossible to identify shells except that a cleaner can tell his own shells—if he cleans for two masters he would keep them separate.

CHARLES THOMAS . I live at 14, Grove Street, Commercial Road, and am a carman in the service of Messrs. Melborn of that address—Solomon engaged me one Saturday afternoon in May to go to Upper East Smithfield—I went there with a horse and cart about 4 p.m.—I backed the van up a passage—that passage has been since pointed out to me by the inspector—four or five boxes were put on the van—we went from there to Mr. Solomon's house—I waited two or three minutes till he came—then he helped me in the passage with the boxes.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. I was regularly employed by Solomons—I know he deals very largely in shells—I have brought him large quantities from the docks.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. I showed the inspector the door the boxes came out of—I had only been there before with the boxes—I have no memorandum of the date.

Re-examined. I went on a Sunday morning, the inspector showed me the passage, and I showed him the door.

HARRIET STONEBROOK . I live at 26, Wellclose Square—I am employed by Messrs. Samuels—I knew Holland in their employment—I remmember seeing him one morning about 9 o'clock go along Great George Street—he had a truck with three or four cases on it—he was coming from Upper East Smithfield—I nodded to him—he nodded to me.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. I had known him about nine months—I knew he was a porter, and that it was his duty to take out goods, and that he would take them on a truck if they were cases—there was nothing to fix it in my memory—I was going to work—my time is 9 o'clock—I was a little behind—that often happens.

Re-examined. I had never seen Holland before at that time in the morning with a truck.

FREDERICK ABBERLINE (Police Inspector H.) In consequence of communications I received from Messrs. Samuels I watched their premises for some weeks with other officers—on the 21st or 22nd June I saw Binns in the presence of Messrs. Samuels—he made a statement to me—on the 23rd, about 8.15, I was in the Commercial Road near Settle Street—I saw Holland carrying this hamper on his back—I followed him and saw him go into Solomon's house, No. 40, Settle Street—he knocked and was admitted immediately—he left the hamper—he came out almost directly—I and Sergeant Foster followed him—I went on a little ahead of Foster and over-took him—I stopped him—I said, "I am an inspector of police, what were you carrying on your back"—he said, "Shells"—I said, "Where did you bring them from"—he said, "From over the water"—I said, "Where from over the water?"—he said, "From Messrs. Samuels they have got two or three places about, one in Upper East Smithfield and one in Hounsditch"—I said, "Where did you take them to?"—he said, "Solomon's, in Settle Street"—I said, "Does Solomon dwell there"—he said, "If you see Solomon he will tell you all about it"—I said, "I am not satisfied with your explanation and seeing a uniform constable I sent him to the station by him—I went back with Foster to Solomon's house—as I knocked at the door I saw him crossing from the opposite side—I said, "I want to speak to you, Solomon, inside if you please"—he said, "Come in"—I said, "I am an inspector of police, this is Sergeant Foster"—he said, "Yes, I know Sergeant Foster"—I said, "Do you buy shells?"—he said, "Yes, any quantity, come inside"—he asked us into the front parlour—there was a large quantity of shells there, a number of cases of coral, and so on—I asked him if he had any more—he said, "Yes"—he took us into a back parlour where there was a similar quantity—he was going to take us into the yard when we came against this hamper (produced) standing on the stairs—I said, "What are these?"—the wife, who was there, said, "Harry brought these"—I said to Solomon, "What Harry?"—he said, "He works at Jamrachs, and does a little cleaning for me in his own time"—the wife immediately said, "Not that Harry, the other Harry"—he said, "Oh, all right"—I picked up one shell called a turbo—I said, "Where did you get this?"—he said, "I bought them of Mr. Myers, in the Minories, I have had them about 18 months"—I said, "Well, I am not at all satisfied, Solomon, with your explanation, go to the station and you will see a man who is detained there who I believe brought these shells into your house"—on arriving at the station, I said, "That is the man," pointing out Holland—he said, "Oh, it is all right,

let him go"—I said, "No, I do not think it is all right, I shall go to his employers, Messrs. Samuels, and hear what they say—Mr. Samuels came and both prisoners were charged—after that we went back to the house, but having to go to the police-court I left Sergeant Foster there and he can speak to what was found in the house.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. I did not know from Binns the hamper was to be seen—I knew Binns had told Messrs. Samuels if anything was going he would let them know—I saw Binns, and I saw Messrs. Samuels, and had communications with them—I did not expect this particular hamper.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. I did not see Thomas and his van—I only watched before 10 a.m. and after 10 p.m., after the principals had left—Solomon frankly and at once shewed me and told me everything—he did not shrink from our looking at the shells and going over his home—he did not say to his wife, referring to the hamper, "What is this?"—Sergeant Foster was with me—he may have made a remark I did not hear—I heard Foster give his evidence—Solomon might have said it.

GEORGE FOSTER (Police Sergeant H). I was with Abberline when Holland was taken into custody—Solomon knew I was in the police force we drew his attention when we were in his house to some shells on the landing—Solomons looked at them as if he did not know what they were—his wife said "Oh, Harry brought those"—Solomon said "Oh, that is Harry Williams; he cleans for Jamrachs and he cleans for me"—his wife said "Oh, it is not that Harry, it is the other Harry; I did not pay him, he is coming back for the money"—after that Abberline took Solomons away—I went over the house—I found a large case packed and fastened up in the front room—afterwards Messrs. Samuels came and went over the property with me in the house—five van loads were afterwards taken away—I produce two cases, one with the head knocked out.

Cross-examined by MR. K. FRITH. I recollect Solomon saying to his wife "What is this?"—he frankly shewed us his premises—he did not appear to know of the hamper till his wife alluded to it—it came while we were at the door, and was in the house when Solomon came in—Solomon came across the street to us—I have known him about 14 years.

MARCUS SAMUELS . I carry on business in conjunction with my brother, at Upper East Smithfield, as shell merchants—the wholesale trade is almost entirely in the hands of two houses—I have had large experience—we import them very extensively from abroad in original cases—we have about 7,000 cases on our premises at one time—we sell and export them—we never sell the original cases—when we send away goods in the home trade we expect to get the cases back—we have employed Holland a great many years, long before my time—the retail trade is not a large one—Holland was a cleaner—Binns was a packer, and lately we gave him the keys, the man having died who had been with us for 32 years—it was Binns's duty to open the premises in the morning and shut them up at night—my attention has lately been called to the stock—when we came to look into it we missed several cases of shells—we communicated with the police, and when Binns had not come at 9 o'clock I taxed him with it—eventually he made a statement—I called Abberline in, who saw him—on the 23rd June I and my brother went to Solomon's premises—I saw this hamper there—my brother has examined the shells—I have seen a lot of green ears—I believe

they are ours—these shells are very rich in colour, and it is very rare for open ears of that kind to come to this market—we have not had them ourselves for many years—if they had come into the market we should have bought them—we have information of every fancy shell that comes to London—I saw a quantity of clams, and particularly spiley clams, which are ours, also this nautillus—this green ear is calcined inside—the spiley clams are very rare, and we have to supply the only house in the trade—there were also bulls' mouths, and several mats of bulls' mouths—the mats were original, and marked "London"—I identify all these produced—these are two of our original cases—all Solomon's cases were opened at the top like this one—it is rendered useless because the battens are knocked out with it.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. There are three wholesale houses in the trade in London, and only one besides our own doing a large business—I heard my brother's evidence at the police-court—I agree that it is difficult to identify a particular shell, as it is a particular sovereign—I do not know that there are numbers of mats marked "London" to be bought—I bought these about two years ago of the executors of the late Mr. Moses privately—I can especially identify this green ear—I can identify the cases more than the shells—we get the cases from Singapore—other houses are not supplied by the same shipper—Binns is still in our employ—I have not promised to retain him, but we are going to retain him—I do not know Walker nor Wankin—I have seen Drayson—Mr. Jones has been a customer—if Mr. Jones has 16 of our cases he has no right to them—there are firms which supply oases—we buy them ourselves—we do not charge the cases we send as we wish them to be returned—this is our printed card (produced), which we have had for years, and which is reversed to send back the empty—I do not know Mrs. Crowning.

Re-examined. The value of the shells lost is from 300l. to 400l.—I have not looked over the book found at Solomon's place—I never had a transaction with him of any kind.

SAMUEL SAMUELS . I am in partnership with my brother, the last witness—I have had about nine years' experience in the business, and my brother 12 or 13—when we missed the cases we pat the matter in the hands of the police—when the prisoners were taken I went to Solomon's premises—I saw the goods there, seven or eight cases—they were taken in bulk—they were all opened in that way—it is an improper way to open them and destroys the cases—these shells are our property—this is a photograph of shells which was done by the Stereoscopic Company for our firm 15 or 18 months ago—I brought some of the shells in this hamper away myself——there were marks inside them—the white ears are from 4s. to 24s. a dozen, the turbos 3s, 6s., and 8s. a dozen—the value of these produced would be about 16l.

Cross-examined by MR. FRITH. There is not a large trade between London and Singapore—captains bring them over, but not in large quantities—we have had one transaction with Mr. Lewis Jones—I do not recollect giving him a photograph—I may have done so—I said at the police-court "I recollect as ours, nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths, and mitres"—those are all I can swear to from marks on them, or from the cases they were in—the packages they were in are differently marked from the generality—I do not know Walker the naturalist, nor Drayson, nor Wankin—I

never heard of Jack Smith—I have heard of Henry "Williams—I heard Mr. Jamrack give his evidence at the police-court—he is not in the shell trade—he has never imported a shell in his life—it is correct to say a considerable trade is done by two houses, ours and another—we are the largest importers—Jones has no right to 16 of our cases—a cleaner knows his own work—I know Dudley and Mortimer—we can scarcely tell their work apart—I marked those in the hamper in order positively to speak to them—one of our cleaners worked at Jamrach's—we buy cases of shells at public sales—those sales are attended by dealers in shells—their cases are not like ours—Solomon may have been in business for many years—I never heard of his father supplying our firm—his name does not appear in our books.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Holland has been in our employment 18 or 20 years—about 15 months ago we employed him on special service with regard to some gutta percha—he worked well for we gave him a bonus of 5l.

Re-examined. The name of the other house that deals largely in shells is Jacobs—he is my uncle—I identify certain shells and certain cases—I have missed shells similar in description to all the other shells—our cleaners ought not to clean for other firms—we tell them we shall give them as much work as they can do.

Witnesses for Solomon.

JOHN TUFTSCOTT . I am employed by Messrs. Brooks and Hall, colonial brokers, of Mincing Lane—I had a sale of shells on 6th April—a man named Solomon bought goods at that sale—this is the contract of sale—we often have sales of shells—I do not attend them—this is the first transaction with Solomon.

Cross-examined. I should say that Messrs. Samuels are the largest buyers of shells.

ANTOINE HEMAN JAMRACH . I am in partnership with my father as a vendor of wild beasts and dealer in natural curiosities—I have a knowledge of the shell trade—nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths, and mitres are ordinary shells known in the trade—they are used for ornamental purposes—a very large trade is done in them—Messrs. Samuels are large merchants, but there are several others—you will find calcination in all green ears—there are 40 kinds of clam—there are two general classes, one is spiny and the other is smooth—a very large trade is done in spiny clams—I have known Solomon seven or eight years—he has bought shells of me—it would be difficult to swear to shells unless they were marked.

Cross-examined. My father has bought cases with the names of other dealers on them—I have not—it is three years since I had anything to do with shells—I never was in partnership.

HENRY MORTIMER . I live at 9, Turner's Buildings, Grove Street—I am a shell polisher—I worked for Mr. Solomon nine months ago—I know the best part of my cleaning—I should not like to say that any particular shell had been in Messrs. Samuels' possession after being cleaned—I have been promised work by them—I cannot say whether nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths and mitres are common—I never dealt in them.

Cross-examined. I am employed by Messrs. Samuels—I had been there before, and when I worked for Solomon I had to stand by—it was understood I was only to work for Samuels.

JAMES REGAN . I live at 20, Tarling Street, St. George's-in-the-East—I work for both Samuels and Solomon—I identify shells by the cleaning.

Cross-examined. I cleaned for Solomon last April or March—I cleaned some red ears for Messrs. Samuels—they were shown to me at the police-court.

HENRY LEE . I know Solomon—I have cleaned shells for him many a time—I have seen him buy of my brother some years ago—there were nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths, and mitres among' them, and marl spikes and cones—my brother laid out from 18s. to 4l. at a time in them—the Singapore vessels bring the best part of them to London.

Cross-examined. My brother has been dead seven or eight years.

WILLIAM WALKER . I am a dealer in curiosities, of 35, Ashmouth Street, Poplar—I know George Jamrach and Solomon—I have been with Solomon on ships from all parts—I have seen similar cases to these—nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths and mitres are common shells in the trade—I have been in the trade 11 or 12 years—it is absurd to say that Messrs. Samuels have almost the monopoly—Mr. Jamrach, of Ratcliffe Highway, and Mr. Myers are two large houses—I have sold lots of shells of all kinds—it is difficult to identify shells unless they are privately marked—I should not like to swear to a shell.

Cross-examined. I deal in everything—some shells come from China and Japan, and the Persian Gulf, and the Straits of Malacca, and Singapore—I have imported shells from China—I have gone out to fetch them—I am not aware that Mr. Charles Jamrach declines to give evidence here.

Re-examined. I know these shells (Pointing them out)—calcined green ears are very common.

WILLIAM DRAYSON . I know Solomon—I know Binns, working for Samuels—I have bought shells of Binns early and late—I never had an invoice—I am a dealer in shells—I have sold Solomon some green ears in a case—I know calcined green ears, they have the appearance of having been blistered by the heat of the sun—they are not common—I have seen many—a feature of green en ears is calcination—that is not uncommon—I know Mr. Cockerill of Commercial Street—I have bought shells of him—I sold them to Solomon, amongst them green ears—nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths, and mitres are very common.

CHRISTIAN WANKIN . I am a naturalist and dealer in natural curiosities, of 130, Commercial Road—I was employed by Mr. Rice, a naturalist, 18 year—he died last November—Mr. Rice and Mr. Jamrach were partners—I delivered by their orders shells to Mr. Solomons—nautiluses, melons, spiders, bulls' mouths, and mitres are common shells in the trade—I have had great experience, and I could not identify a shell unless it was marked.

JOHN DUDLEY . I am a shell cleaner and polisher—I have worked for Samuels and Solomon—I have had 26 years' experience—I could not identify my own work.

LEWIS JONES . I am a general dealer, of St. Edmunds, Suffolk—I have known Mr. Solomon in the shell trade—I gave him a photograph which had been sent to me by Messrs. Samuels—I was at Solomon's place of business and bought shells to the amount of 9l. 10s.—when I saw the photograph he said. "This is the way Mr. Samuels sends photographs to his customers," and he gave it to me—I have dealt with him the last

10 years—nautiluses, melons, spiders, bull's mouths, and mitres are imported in large quantities in the trade—it is not easy to identify a shell—I should not know a shell again I had seen in the rough, not to swear to it—the cases from Jamrach and Samuels get mixed—I have three or four by me at the present time—I generally keep them unless they are worthless, when I chop them up—I very often sell empty cases.

Cross-examined. As a rule I open my cases at the top where the label is—I have not paid for them—I was never charged—there was noting about return empty on the address.

JOHN HARPER . I saw at the police-station some mats of bulls' mouths—I do not know where they came from—I have had similar mats at Red Lion Wharf—they were marked "London"—a great quantity are marked London.

JAMES HATCHET . I have cleaned shells for Solomon for some time—green ears are as common as other shells—I know calcined green ears—I don't know where they come from—I never do business with Jamrach—I am still in Messrs. Samuels' employ.

ALFRED STEPHENS . I am a naturalist—I know Solomon—I have dealt in shells—the shells the prosecutor swears to are common.

Cross-examined. I know a melon when I see one. (The witness pointed out a snail on a photograph.)

JACK SMITH . I am a shell polisher—I know Solomon—I assisted him to take some nautilus shells out of a box nine or ten week's ago—I did not notice any name on it—it was opened from the top—they were broken—I have polished shells for the prisoner—I do not know, whether the shells are common—I know what they charge—I have worked for Myers—I believe Solomon has bought from him.

MRS. CROWNING. I am a bag seller—for the last 18 years I have dealt with Jamrach, Myers, and Solomon, and bought large and small quantities, and never had a bill in my life—I have bought boxes with Samuels' name on; five from Samuels'—if they say they never sell boxes it is contrary—I have three in my possession now.

HENRY WILLIAMS . I am assistant to Mr. Jamrach in the bird shop, and likewise in the menagerie—I have known Solomon buy black ears and spiny clams—it is not easy to identify shells.

JOSEPH SOLOMONS . I am an engraver—I have been in the shell tradegreen ears are common shells—I do not know calcined green ears.

DINAH ABRAHAMS . Solomon is my brother—I recollect the Monday before he was arrested, the 21st of June, being the longest day—he was in my house in Kepple Street, Chelsea—he came about 3 o'clock—he stayed till about 11.30 or 11.45 p.m.

Solomon received a good character.

HOLLAND— GUILTY Two Years' Imprisonment.

SOLOMON— GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, August 12, 1880.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-434

434. JAMES COLLINS (17), THOMAS BOUCHER (18), and FLOEENCE FITZGERALD (17) , Stealing 701bs. of coffee from a dock adjacent to the Thames.

MR. GRAIN Prosecuted.

WILLIAM BURDEN . I am a coffee sampler at the C warehouse, third floor, St. Katherine Docks—on 22nd July, about 11.30 a.m., I was in my office and saw the three prisoners walking about on the third floor—I knew they had no business there, and followed them up one staircase and down another to the first floor, when they went into a warehouse where coffee is stored, and closed the door after them—I pushed the door aside and watched them—Collins was at one end of a cask of coffee, which was on the floor, and Fitzgerald at the other, holding a bag—Boucher was at the bung-hole, tilting the cask, and the coffee was coming out into the bag—I went and gave information to my foreman on the third floor, who lowered me down by the lift on to the quay—I spoke to Sergeant Robinson, went to the warehouse with him, and when the prisoners caught sight of us Collins and Fitzgerald jumped out at the loophole on to the quay and Boucher hid himself behind the cask—they left this bag (produced) under the mouth of the cask—it had about 80lbs. of coffee in it, worth about 45l.—I had never seen them before.

HENRY WILLIAM SOUTHTON . I am one of the foremen of the C ware-house—the prisoners have nothing to do with the docks, and no one has a right to be there unless employed on the establishment—on 20th July Burden spoke to me, and I lowered him down by the lift to the third floor—I afterwards went with him and the police sergeant, to a door which was a little ajar, and saw Collins and Fitzgerald in the act of taking coffee from a cask—one bag had been filled, and Boucher was tying it up—these are the two bags—we weighed them, and there was 70lbs. of coffee in them—I said "What are you doing here?" and Collins and Fitzgerald jumped from the loophole, 12 or 13 feet, on to the quay, and Collins hurt his foot—I found Boucher behind a cask, and gave him to the sergeant.

Cross-examined by Collins. You were not getting nuts.

Cross-examined by Fitzgerald. You were not 20 yards from the cask—your hands were on it—you had opened the loophole.

Re-examined. They had no right there to get nuts or anything—they would not come into the dock to be engaged; if they were engaged it would be outside.

WILLIAM ROBINSON . I went with the last two witnesses to the first floor, and saw Collins and Fitzgerald jump out at the loophole, and Boucher lying down behind a cask—I charged him with stealing coffee—he said "I came up here to get some nuts—the cask was two or three yards from the loophole.

HENRY SMITH . I am a permanent labourer at the docks—on 27th July I was on the quay when Fitzgerald jumped out at the loophole—he tried to run away, but I shouted after him and he was stopped—Collins then jumped down and hurt his leg—they do not work there.

JOHN SALEM . I am a marker and sampler in the Dock Company's service—I heard a cry of "Stop thief"—Fitzgerald ran against me and I detained him.

CHARLES JACKSON (Policeman.) The prisoners were handed over to me by a dock constable—I told them the charge—they said that they went there after nuts.

The prisoners in their defence stated that they went into the warehouse to get nuts, and that it would have been useless to steal the coffee, as they could not get it out of the dock without a pass.

GUILTY Twelve Months Imprisonment each.

Reference Number: t18800803-435

435. ARTHUR HUNT (16) , Feloniously entering the dwelling-house of Albert Cloux by night, and stealing a tobacco box and other articles, his property.

MR. G. WILLIAMS Prosecuted.

ALFRED WILLIAMS (E 55). On 14th July, about 3.30 a.m., I was on duty in North Crescent Mews, and saw a man get off the wall and run away—I ran after him and lost sight of him—I returned to the mews and saw the prisoner get off the same wall and get under a cart which stood in the mews—I took him in custody—this pair of ladies' boots (produced) was lying by him—I took him to the station—he was wearing this shirt, and I found on him this tobacco pouch, cigar holder and case, and 5d.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. This was nearly half-a-mile from the lady's house at King's Cross.

CHARLES ANGEL (Policeman E 73). I went with Williams to the mews and saw the prisoner drop from a low wall at the rear of a house in Mabledon Place and crouch under a cart—Williams secured him—I got over the wall and found the back door of 6, Mabledon Place open—I roused somebody and searched the premises and found in the front kitchen the drawers of the dresser and chiffonnier turned out—several things were missing—I found in the yard the portion of a tin money box empty—the top is gone—I found marks on the slates where some one had climbed up, and the water pipe was broken down near the staircase window, which was open—it was 3.40 when I was called.

Cross-examined. You said at first that you were not on the wall, but at the station you said that you were—Williams was there when I got there.

ELIZABETH CLOUX . I am the wife of Albert Cloux, of 6, Mabledon Place—on 14th July, about 4.15, I was aroused by a constable knocking at the back parlour door—I went down to the kitchen with him and missed several things—this shirt, cigar-holder, and pouch are my husband's—these boots and money-box are my child's—the money-box was in a drawer in the chiffonnier and contained about 1s. 6d. in coppers—I went to bed about 10.30—the doors were all fastened except the street door—the staircase window was open just enough to get your hand under.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate was that two men asked him if he wanted to earn a shilling—he stood in South Crescent Mews while they got over the wall, and afterwards threw a hat over and a pair of boots which the prisoner picked up.

GUILTY . He then PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction at Clerkenwell in March 1879.— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-436

436. WILLIAM KIRBY (22) , Stealing 400 cigars and other articles in the dwelling-house of Thomas Wright, and afterwards burglariously breaking out of the same, and GEOEGE LEATH (19) , feloniously harbouring him knowing him to have committed a felony, to which KIRBY PLEADED GUILTY

MR. SMYTHIES Prosecuted.

THOMAS WRIGHT . I am a licensed victualler, of 26, Vere Street, Clare Market—on 26 July I came down and found the private door unbolted, and also a door leading from the bar to the passage—when I opened the house I saw a constable—I examined the premises with him and missed about 500 cigars, the boxes were all empty; also two pounds tobacco, a coat and

an empty bottle; I do not know what was taken away in it—Kirby had been there as a customer for about a week, and did a good deal of writing in the top room; he wrote there nearly all day—when I closed my house I looked everywhere except up the chimney—these cigars and tobacco (produced) are similar to what I lost—I have identified my coat.

ROBERT BULL . I am manager of Wood's Chambers, a lodging-house in Portugal Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields—on 31st July, a little after 5 a.m., Kirby came in with a pint bottle of brandy and asked me to have a little drop, which I did—he took off his coat and then another, a black one, and asked for a sheet of paper, which I gave him, and he made a parcel of the under coat and put something into the coat—I had seen him at the table taking some cigars out of the pockets of the different coats, and he made a parcel of them—he went out and asked me to call George Leath, and while he was gone I found these two cigar boxes and a screw-driver where he had been sitting—he came back at 7 o'clock, went up stairs and came down with Leath, who had been staying there for six weeks—Kirby was not sleeping there, we had turned him out—they went out together, and Kirby gave the parcel into my charge; I locked it up in my private cupboard, and from information I received I went to the White Lion and Mr. Wright sent two detectives—the articles were taken to the station, and Mr. Wright identified them—Leath came between 10 and 11 a.m., and asked for the parcel Kirby had left—I did not agree at once, but at last I gave it to him and he said "Will you allow me to leave the coat behind"—I said "No, you must take them all away off the premises"—he said "I am very sorry I have had anything to do with him; he caused me to lose 7s. at bagatelle last sight; and when I get rid of this parcel I shall drop his acquaintance, if I don't I shall perhaps get into 'trouble"—he left with the parcel—I afterwards went to the station and identified the coat—I have no doubt it was the one Kirby gave into my charge.

CHARLES BERRY (Detective E.) On 31st July, about 11.30 a.m., I saw Leath in Portugal Street, he was taken out of Wood's chambers—he had a parcel with him—I followed him to Broad Street, Bloomsbury, where he met Kirby—I ran across the road and took hold of Kirby, and told him the charge—he said "I don't know what you mean; you have made a mistake"—I took him to the station and found 12 cigars on him, which are a portion of those identified.

FREDERICK GRUMBRIDGE (Detective E.) I was with Berry and took Leath—he had a coat and a parcel containing these cigars—I said "I shall arrest you for receiving the property you now have in your possession knowing it to be stolen"—he said "I know nothing of it, I have been to fetch it for my friend."

Leath's Statement before the Magistrate. "I know nothing about it. This man asked me to fetch him the cigars, and I fetched them as far as Broad Street."

Leath's Defence. The man sent me to a public-house to fetch a paper parcel. I fetched it I didn't know what it contained. I took it to Broad Street and called him out of a public-house, and was arrested. I was quite surprised.

Witness for Leath.

WILLIAM KIRBY (The Prisoner.) What Leath states is quite correct. I brought him into the robbery—when I sent him for the things from Broad

Street he was entirely ignorant of what they contained—I do not suppose I shall benefit by telling a lie; I am telling the truth on his behalf.

Cross-examined. I have known him as a friend, but hardly a fortnight—he is not a pal of mine—I went up first to call him down to have some drink with me—I knew it was a bean-feast next day and he was not going to work—I asked him to go to Wood's Chambers and ask for a parcel I had left there—I didn't tell him what it contained.

LEATH— NOT GUILTY KIRBY**— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-437

437. MICHAEL CURRIE (21) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Ann Morris and stealing a basket of clothes, her property. Second count—Receiving the same.

MR. GEOHEGAN Prosecuted.

ANN MORRIS . I am a laundress, of 21, Paradise Place, Islington—on the 21st July, at 11.30 p.m., I fastened up my house before going to bed—I occupy the whole house—I left a basket of linen in the front parlour, flush with the street—it contained 12 dozen articles—the window was fastened with a catch and outside shutters—on 30th July, about 4.30 a.m., I was woke up, and went down and missed the linen—the sash rope of the window had been cut, and the top part of the window had come down—this is the basket (produced,) the linen has been returned to my customers—my sons were in the house—I communicated with the police—all the property except one chemise was brought back about 11 o'clock on July 30.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I have a distinct recollection of fastening the window.

JOHN DORDOY . I am a painter, of 8, Victoria Place, Islington—on 30th July, about 5.15 a.m., my son aroused me and I went to Mrs. Morris's and made inquiries—I was with one of her sons in Shepperton Street about 10 a.m, and saw the prisoner coming down Green Man's Lane with I basket of linen on a costermonger's barrow—he knew me perfectly well, and held his head down as soon as he saw me turn the comer—he started off with the linen and the barrow as fart as he could—I ran after him; he got away, leaving the barrow and linen behind him—he was taken nest day.

Cross-examined. I did not have your brother taken out of bed and his place searched; your two brothers are hard-working men.

HENRY MORRIS . I am a son of the prosecutor—I was with Dordoy and saw the prisoner at the corner of Shepperton Street with a basket of linen on a barrow, which I identified as my mother's property by a bum on the handle—when he saw us he ran as fast as he could and left the barrow—I got about 15 yards off him and he turned and looked at me—I got sight of his face, and am sure he is the man—I knew him before—I next saw him in the hands of the police—he was alone in a corner when I picked him out, but 15 or 16 others were there.

THOMAS LINES (Policeman N 467). I examined Mrs. Morris's house and found the shutters forced, and the sash line cut which made it easy to enter—Morris described the prisoner—I met him on 31st July; I looked hard at him and he ran away—I ran after him into 2, Blade's Court and found him in a bedroom, between a bedstead and the wall—he asked me what I was going to take him for—I said, "A case of suspicion only"—I took him to the station—he was placed with 15 or 16 others, and Morris identified him

Cross-examined. You were placed with two lots—there were 11 or 12 in the first lot and about 16 in the second lot—Dordoy did not see you till you were in the dock—you were not in bed when I took you—you had no appearance of sleep because you had had a long run, nearly a quarter of a mile—your clothes were on.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "It is all fake. It was a great temptation, the shutters were open. I never had a knife in my hand."

Prisoner's Defence. They first had suspicion of my brother, then of my cousin, and the constable came and said I had run away, when all the time I was lying on my bed. I am innocent.

GUILTY on the second Count. He then PLEADED GUILTY** to a conviction in April, 1879.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Friday, August 13th, 1880.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18800803-438

438. WILLIAM TOWNSEND (35), and MARTIN SEAL (43) , Unlawfully conspiring with others to cheat and defraud Thomas Littlewood and divers other persons of their goods.

MR. TALFOURD SALTER , Q.C., with MR. SNAGGE Prosecuted; MR. OVEREND appeared for Townsend; MESSES. WARNER SLEIGH and FULTON for Seal.

JOHN KEELING . I am a carman in the employ of the London and SouthWestern Railway Company—on 31st October last, I was with my van ina Lower Thames Street—I had occasion to leave the van with the boy for few minutes to go into a house on business, and on my return I found this black bag (produced) shoved in at the side of the van—I took it to the office, the clerks opened it, and I took it to Moor Lane Station, and gave it in charge of the police-sergeant.

ROBERT CHRISTY (City Policeman 780). I apprehended Townsend on 31st March last, on Fish Street Hill—I searched him and found on him a number of papers and pawntickets, one relating to the name of Wade on 1st January, 1880.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. The tickets relate to wearing apparel and jewellery, and one to a rug.

WILLIAM COLLINS (City Policeman 179). On 31st October, I was at Moor Lane Station when Christy brought this bag containing papers and duplicates—it was handed to Inspector Abberline.

FREDERICK ABBERLINE (Police Inspector H.) In consequence of information I received on 16th May, I was with the witness Beard watching 24, Broadley Terrace, St. John's Wood—I saw Townsend in the street—I crossed the road and said, "Mr. Townsend"—he made no answer but walked on—he had been let out on his own recognizances on 31st March, and did not surrender—I said, "I am an inspector of police and I hold a warrant for your arrest for stealing a horse and harness on 18th March"—I apprehended him—on 19th May I received from Collins this bag, containing these papers—on 22nd June I was in a jeweller's shop in Clerkenwell Road on other business, and I there saw a man named Kelly, and behind him stood Seal—they were together—having had a description of Seal, I said to him, "How do you do Mr. Seal,"and held out my hand—he shook hands and said, "How do you do"—I said, "I wish to speak to you a minute, will you be

good enough to step outside"—I then said, "I am an inspector of police, and I wanted to see you in connection with Townsend's case"—he interrupted me and said, "It is not me, it is my brother you want to see"—I said, "Your brother is a much shorter man than you, and I hold a warrant for your apprehension"—he said, "Townsend was my manager"—I read the warrant to him—it was in the name of "Z. Martin Seal"—I took him to the station, searched him, and found this pocket book—I have a list of the things found—amongst them was a warrant for 15 cases of champagne—he gave his address 3, Treherne Place, Peckham Rye.

GEORGE CHARLES RAMSAY . I am a member of the firm of Key and Ramsay, of 18, Castle Street, Falcon Square—I formerly had a warehouse at 30, Hemsell Street—in December, 1878, I let that warehouse to the prisoners—this (produced) is the agreement dated December 6th, 1878—my partner drew it up, and I signed it—(This was an agreement to let a warehouse to Zephaniah Seal and Co. at a rent of 150l. a year, payable quarterly, and was signed, Z. Martin Seal, W. H. Townsend, and Key and Ramsay.)—Townsend's signature was affixed in my presence—it was with him that the verbal part of the negotiation was carried on—I had never seen Seal up to that time—Townsend described himself as a partner of Seal—after the agreement was signed, the name of the firm was written up—we made repeated applications for rent, but could not get any—Townsend said his partner was in the country or on the continent, that they had had a quarrel, and ho had attached the money at the bank, but as soon as he had any up from the country he would let mo have it—the first week in June he gave me 20l. in notes, and said, "Let the other remain over for a time"—we failed to get the rent—it turned the second quarter, and we tried to put a man in possession, and I was advised by my solicitor to forgive them the rent to get them out—the door was fastened, and we could not get in—Mr. Seal then came on the scene—that was the first time I had seen him—he came and said that Townsend was not his partner, but simply his manager—he said, "I cannot pay the rent, but if this bill is of any use to you, you can have that—(This was a bill for 16 guineas at one month drawn by Z. Martin Seal and Co. upon and accepted by A. Grant, payable at 82, Bishopsgate Street Without,)—that bill was not met—when he gave up possession I gave up the agreement and promised not to sue him on the bill if I could get the money from, the, person it was drawn upon—I got possession some time in July.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Townsend first came in December, 1878—Seal was not with him—he said "We are giving up premises in Noble Street;" not that Seal was—there was no room in the margin of the agreement for all the signatures, so Townsend signed across; he did not sign as a witness—Seal's name was already to it—I asked him if that was Mr. Seal's writing, and he said it was—I said "I don't know Mr. Seal, will you put your name to it 1" and he did, as a partner—he said he was a partner—Mr. Seal, when he came, said Townsend was not his partner—I don't recollect his saying that he had represented himself as such; ho might have said so—I could not say for certain—I think this conversation was early in July or the latter end of June last year—he complained of Townsend's conduct to him—he said he had robbed him; he might have said of 400l.—he did not say he had discharged him.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. Townsend told me he was Seal's

partner when he took the premises, and when he brought the agreement—I received the 20l. for rent either from Townsend or his man; I am pretty sure he brought it himself.

Re-examined. I applied for the rent myself—I generally saw a man named Shultz, and after that Townsend came in to see me one or twice respecting it—I knew him by sight in the City—they had previously been in Noble Street—he said that place did not suit them; they wanted ground floor premises—he referred to Seal and Co., and I made inquiries and found they had paid their rent; that was all I wanted to know.

ARTHUR PERCY JACKSON . I am articled to my father, who it solicitor to the Cordwainers' Company—they are the freeholders of 81, Wood Street—Townsend had an agreement with the company with references to offices there—I produce the agreement—we had two references, and we made inquiries of them through Messrs. Debenham, Towson, and Fanner—I produce the replies; one was from Z. Martin Seal and Co., 30, Hemsell Street, Falcon Square, and the other from A. Grant, New Bond Street, and upon those we accepted Townsend as tenant—he remained till October, 1879, leaving a quarter and a half rent due, 45l—he paid nothing—we put in a broker—the goods realized 11l. 1s. 6d; but the broker's charges were 8l. 17s. 7d., so we received 2l. 3s. 11d., we heard nothing more of him.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. Townsend complained of his stock being spoiled through some fat leaking through the ceiling from a kitchen above—we did our best to stop it—we did not make him any allowance—we did not waive the half-quarter's rent in consideration of the damage.

ARTHUR HENRY PLUMMER DALE . I am manager of the Peckham branch of the London and South-Western-Bank—a person named Seal had an account there; I believe it to be the prisoner—it was opened in the name of Sidney Seal—it is our custom to require two references—he referred to Mr. Hilton and Mr. W. Townsend, of 81, Wood Street—they were applied to, and were satisfactory—the account was opened with 200l., and at its close, about June or July last, was overdrawn about 2l—there never was a balance of anything like 1,000l.—the overdrawn balance of 2l. was paid by Mr. O'Brien, the prisoner's solicitor.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have not the signature book here—I showed it to Mr. O'Brien when he called—I put the name of Zephaniah Martin Seal under the signature, in pencil—I don't remember communicating with Mr. Sidney Seal, asking him to explain the difficulty in the name—he gave his address 3, Friern Place, Peckham Bye—Mr. O'Brien said that the account was not Z. Martin Seal's—I did not tell Mr. O'Brien that I did not know the man by sight who opened the account—I had a very indistinct recollection of him—I believe the prisoner to be the man—I saw Mr. Littlewood before I wrote the name in pencil—he did not tell me that Sidney Seal was not the man that had the account, but that it was Z. Martin Seal—it was in consequence of what be told me that I wrote that name in pencil.

Re-examined. He told me that he believed my customer, Sidney Seal, to be the same man he was pursuing for a debt in the name of Z. Martin Seal—the person who came with Mr. O'Brien paid the 2l. to liquidate the account—Mr. O'Brien said he was acting for Mr. Sidney Seal—I said I understood his real name was Z. Martin Seal—Mr. O'Brien said "No, no, that is another man"—this was in June or July; it was the only time I

saw Mr. O'Brien—there were about 50 or 60 cheques presented and paid—we return the cheques with the pass-book.

ARTHUR CREASY TATTERS ALL . I am a hosiery agent—I knew the late Mr. Townsend—he carried on business in Cripplegate Buildings as C. P. Townsend for many years, and was a highly respectable man of business—I know the prisoner Townsend—he was with his uncle for a short time, the latter part of the time—after the uncle's death the business was carried on by Pitt and Townsend for a year or two, and then by Frank and Townsend for two years—the business has ceased for some years.

Cross-examined by OVEREND. I cannot say whether the prisoner managed the business for the executors after his uncle's death; I don't believe so—I don't believe he was a long time with his uncle, I think it was only a short time.

WALTER A. FRANK . I am now a brickmaker at East Grinstead—I purchased the business of Pitt and Townsend, late C. P. Townsend, the Cripplegate Buildings firm, in May, 1874—Townsend was my partner from 1874 to 1876, when we dissolved partnership—I ceased to carry on business in Cripplegate Buildings about the spring of 1878.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. When I joined Mr. Townsend I took the position that Mr. Pitt had previously occupied—I made my bargain with Pitt; I suppose Townsend was included in it—he had not the good-will; Pitt and Townsend had.

Re-examined. I sold the goodwill to a Mr. James, and he gave it up in 1879—I believe that was the end of Townsend and Co. and their successors.

EDWARD HOUGH . I am a licensed victualler at King's Cross Road—I knew Townsend about April, 1876—I let him a stable at the first onset, but I never received any rent—I afterwards took him into my service and gave him a certain profit on the business—I bought a lot of horses and traps, and started him in theft business, and paid him at the rate of about 35s. per week—it was a carman's business, which he managed with ray property about six months—I then sold off; it was at Sidcup—he remained there until about 1878—I did not know how he got his living then—I believe he drove a cab for a fly-master at the station.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have known Seal five or six year—he bears the character of a highly honourable and upright man from what I have heard—he has a place at Lee, in Kent—I have heard of no partnership between him and Townsend—I first knew him in 1874 and up to the present time—I did not know that Townsend was in his employment—Seal has a large business at Lee as a dairyman—Townsend gave me an order for 20l. worth of articles last December—the business I got him to manage for me was at the Black Horse, Sidcup, in 1876.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. He generally drew what he required, and it was generally over-drawing—he was my servant, and he hired a stable of me—he never assisted behind the bar, only when a gentleman wanted a bottle of champagne he might take the order—he assisted as a friend—I never visited at his place—when he was in difficulties I assisted him—I had a good opinion of him; or rather it was after he left Mr. Frank, in 1876, that I assisted him—I do* not know what he was doing in 1879—he knew Mr. Seal years before, I think—I did not know that they were associated in business.

HENRY COOPER . I am manager of James Quinn & Co., Limited, waterproof

proof manufacturers, at 112, Queen Victoria Street—I received an order from W. H. Townsend & Co.—I think it was a verbal order, which was accompanied by a card some days previously—I did not make inquiries—I delivered the goods—I thought they were for the firm of Townsend, in Cripplegate Buildings—they were delivered subject to the usual terms, 2 1/2 per cent. off, cash in a month—I did not get any money—I applied for it several times—in the course of the month I received several orders from Townsend, amounting to about 30l., on their printed headings, on August 25th, September 10th, 12th, and 18th—if they had all been supplied they would have come to 120l. or 130l.—I only executed them to the amount of 7l. 10s.—this rug (produced) is one of those supplied by our firm—he sent for the rugs as samples—I did not get them back—I went myself to try and get them, but did not see the prisoner.

HENRY ELDRED . I am in the service of Mr. Wade, pawnbroker, of Peckham—this pawn-ticket applies to a rug pledged with me on the 27th January last for 4s., in the name of John Townsend—I cannot recognize the person who brought it.

FRANCIS LITTLEWOOD . I am a button-maker, of 26, Aldermanbury—I know Townsend—he called on me in January last year and told me he was the partner of Z. Martin Seal, of 30, Hamsell Street, and he left an order to send goods to the amount of 11l. 13s. 6d.—we had a second order in the course of the month for the same amount—they were sent to Hamsell Street—I knew him before, from his connection with the Cripplegate house only—the terms were monthly—I applied for payment and saw Townsend after calling a great many times until I was tired, telling him unless the matter was settled I should put it into the hands of my solicitor, which I did, but failed to get the money—part of the goods were afterwards returned to me under a threat of my exposing the matter at the Mansion House, and I saw some in Townsend's warehouse in Wood Street—those were not the goods which were sent to Hamsell Street, but to Noble Street, under the previous transactions with Z. Martin Seal Co.—I did not see any of the buttons which were sent to Hamsell Street, except those which were returned—I received an anonymous letter about three months ago, in consequence of which I went to a public-house in Holborn, but I saw no one there that I recognized, and went back to my office—Townsend called about half an hour afterwards, and I said, "It was you who wrote that letter, was it?" He said, "Yes"—I showed it him, and he tore it up, saying that he did not wish to be indicted for obtaining money under false pretences—he said upon payment of 2l. he would give me such information as would enable me to obtain my money from Z. Martin Seal & Co. at once—at first I objected, but afterwards gave him 30s. and an I O U for 10s.—he gave me Z. Martin Seal's address as 3, Friern Place, Peckham Rye, and also the name of his bankers as the London and South-Western Bank, Rye Lane branch, Peckham Rye—he said that Seal had a balance of l,000l. there—I went to 3, Friern Place the next morning, and made inquiries of a girl who opened the door, but she denied Mr. Seal being there, knowing nothing of the name—I went to the bank, and after seeing the manager he produced the signature book, and I saw signed there the name of Sidney Seal—he said the account was overdrawn—the name of Townsend was in the book as a reference.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Townsend did not tell me that he was

a reference for Seal's banking account; I saw that in the book at the bank—I knew Townsend for some years by sight, but not to speak to him—I knew that he was a member of a firm in Cripplegate Buildings, or rather that he was there—that was all I knew about him—I traced Townsend from Hamsell Street to Wood Street, and there I saw all of the goods I had delivered in Noble Street—I found that he told me lies—I never saw Seal until I saw him at Worship Street—I tried to find him but could not—I did not go to Hamsell Street to find him; I went to Blackheath—Townsend told me it was no good going to Hamsell Street, because Seal was never there—all the goods I sold to Seal at Noble Street were paid for; it was only two or three pounds—I understood from Townsend that he had acted as sole manager of the business in Hamsell Street; but Seal did not interfere there except to write cheques, which I never saw—I sent in my accounts every month, but never got payment.

GEORGE NEWTON . I am managing clerk to Messrs. Serra, wine agents—on 14th August Townsend had 100 cases of champagne; it came to 45l., for which he gave an acceptance at three months, payable at the London and County Bank—the wine was lying at Fenning's Wharf—I gave a delivery order—the acceptance was returned—we have never been paid.

EDWARD LAXTON . I am a clerk at Fenning's Wharf—I received this delivery order for 15 cases of champagne, signed Serra and Co., upon which warrants would be granted—they were delivered in three lots to Townsend's order, and one lot to the order of Morrison and Co.

THOMAS BROSTER TOHELL . I am in the service of the London and NorthWestern Railway Company—I received this order from Townsend on 20th August to deliver 63 cases of wine from Fenning's wharf to the Watford station, consigned to Aubyn.

THOMAS GILLETT . I am goods agent to the London and North-Western Railway Company at Watford—the 63 cases of wine spoken to by the last witness arrived there and were delivered to a person named Aubyn (a letter found on Townsend and signed Aubyn was here read)—Aubyn had been living at Watford five or six months; he was not carrying on any business—I don't know when he left.

JOHN BACON . I am a carman in the employ of Mr. Dottridge—on 11th November last I received 20 cases of wine from Fenning's wharf for Barnard and Son, 29, Playhouse Yard, Whitecross Street.

EUGENE CUFFE . I am manager to Mr. Barnard, 29, Playhouse Yard, Whitecross Street—I purchased a portion of this champagne of Townsend on 11th November—I advanced 5l. on it, and ultimately paid the balance and cleared it.

JOHN GIBBON MORRISON . I am agent to Woolterton R. White, fency hoisery manufacturer, Nottingham—about the end of August, 1879, Mr. White received orders in writing from W. H. Townsend and Co.—these (produced) are on a printed heading "81, Wood Street," dated August 6th, 9th, 22nd; September 3rd, 8th, 22nd, and 24th—I know that two down Cardigan jackets were sent—I afterwards called in Wood Street—I saw several persons there, but no one that I know—I knew the firm of Townsend in Cripplegate Buildings.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have never seen Townsend write—I should not think these letters of 2nd April and 22nd September came from the same hand, they might, there is a similarity—the letters of 24th and

30th September I should say are more like that of 2nd August than the one of 22nd September.

WOOLTERTON R. WHITE . On 6th August I received an order from Townsend and Co., and supplied goods to the value of about 40l., to be paid for one month under another—I have not been paid anything—I made inquiries of my agent as to Townsend and Co., and had a report which led me to deliver the goods.

WILLIAM BENEDICT HOLE . I am clerk to Mr. Roarth, of Leicester, manufacturer of sewing cottons—on 11th August, 1879, I received this sample order on a printed heading, from "Townsend and Co., 81, Wood Street, late of Cripplegate Buildings, established 1847"—on 14th August I received this order for sewing cotton, amounting to 52l. 10s.—I asked for references and received this answer, dated August 19th: "We are not in the habit of giving references; this being our first transaction we are willing to pay cash at a month, less the usual discount"—On 23rd September we received this repeating order, we did not supply that—we have not been paid for the first—I supplied it in the belief it was for the respectable old firm of Townsend.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I think there is a resemblance between this letter of 29th August and that of 25th September.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. We had done business with C. P. Townsend, the original firm, and subsequently with Pitt and Townaend, and Frank and Townsend, and were always paid.

Re-examined. That was how I was led to trust Townsend and Co., believing that I was dealing with the old-established firm.

GUSTAVE CHAUDE . I am a cigar and wine merchant, of 10, Walbrook—in September last I discounted a bill of 32l. 10s. for Townsend—he deposited some sewing cotton as security, for which I gave him this acknowledgment—the bill was not paid when due; I sued on it and obtainod judgment—I have been paid nothing on the bill—I realised the cotton, but it left me a loser of 5l. 6s. 3d.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I have known Seal some time; I always thought him a man of integrity and honour.

Re-examined. I did not know him through Townsend, but by living in the same neighbourhood; I did not know him in any business relations—I have seen him with Townsend about Blackheath, where I live—I never met them together in London but once—Townsend never mentioned Seal's name to me.

ENOCH SHARMAN . I live at 64, Nichol Street, Leicester, and am a boot and shoe manufacturer—about June, 1879, I received, through my agents, orders from Townsend and Co., of 81, Wood Street, something over 40l.—I sent about 20l. worth and a few samples, which made it about 22l.; the terms were 5 off monthly—I was never paid—I received another order which I did not execute—some time before I received an order for boots from Martin Seal and Co., of 30, Hamsell Street—I supplied goods amounting to 5l. 3s.; I have never been paid.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I wrote to Hamsell Street for my account, but got no answer; one of the letters came back from the dead-letter office—I came to London and found the place in Hamsell Street locked—"Z. Martin Seal and Co." was painted on the window; or it might have been on the lintel of the door.

ALBERT EKE . I am assistant to Mr. Harrison, pawnbroker;'41, Aldersgate

Street—I produce a pair of boots, one pair of eight pawned on June 5th, 1879, for 2l. 10s., in the name of Charles Felt—this is the ticket that was issued—the person who pawned them is not present.

MR. SHARMAN (Re-examined). These are not the boots I supplied either to Townsend or Seal.

FREDERICK BOWERMAN . I am in the service of Goe Brothers—orders were received by them from Townsend and Co.—the majority of them were given through our traveller, Mr. Hilton, but these two (produced) are special orders forwarded from Townsend's place afterwards—they are on printed headings, 81, Wood Street, dated 14th and 27th August, for ladies' ulsters—the majority of the orders through our traveller were larger; the amount altogether was 36l.—I have since been with Inspector Abberline to some pawnbrokers, and seen some of the ulsters.

Henry Lawrence, of Paul Street, Finsbury; Benjamin Swinfin, 32, Kingsland Road; Edward Oldfield, 91, Houndsditch; and William John Lewington, Newgate Street, pawnbrokers, produced 31 of the ulsters pledged on 15th and 16th October, 1879.

BOSWELL JOHN MILLS . I am a manufacturer in Nichol Square—in August last I received orders from Townsend and Co., amongst other things for braces, amounting to 31l. 8s. 3d; they were not paid for—there was an order for 20l. more, which we did not execute—I supplied the goods under the belief that I was dealing with the old-established firm of Townsend and Co.—I have not been able to trace my goods.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I supplied the goods to Townsend on the representation that he was connected with a firm that I had in previous years had the highest respect for—when I went to Wood Street I found he was simply deceiving and duping me.

EDWIN DANBY . I am a traveller on commission, and live at 28, Victoria Road, Kentish Town—in January, this year, I was employed by John Roberts and Co., of Whitecross Street, shirt manufacturers—I received an order from Townsend for samples at 5l. 10s. 8d.—he afterwards gave further orders, amounting altogether to 33l. 17s. 3d. on the ordinary monthly terms—I applied for payment several times, I should think 20 times, more than once a day—I have never got the money.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. I never saw Seal—I never saw him to my knowledge before he was in the dock—Townsend always gave me the orders.

EDWIN BRIDGEWATER . I am a member of the firm of Walcot and Bridgewater, boot and shoe manufacturers, at Northampton—I received an order, in consequence of which I supplied three dozen boots to Martin Seal and Co., of 30, Hamsell Street, on 30th May, 1879, to the amount of 23l. with the packages—I applied for payment; I did not get it.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. The order came through our traveller, verbally given to him—I don't know who gave the order—it was a travellers order in the ordinary way.

ADAM WEBSTER . I am a commission agent at Clapham Park—I was employed by Z. Martin Seal and Co. for a short time at 30, Hamsell Street in April and May last year—I saw there Townsend and a warehouseman named Shulfz—I once saw Seal in the counting-house—I never had any conversation with him; he had nothing to do with the business—he was in the counting-house by himself—he asked me my name—I said

"Webster"—he said "Mr. Townsend engaged you"—I said "Yes"—that was all that passed between us—I found him there when I went with an order—Townsend was out—I merely laid the order on the desk and left it there—I was paid by commission—I received orders from several drapers and pawnbrokers—I got an order from a pawnbroker at Waltham Abbey; they order goods and sell them as unredeemed pledges—I was not instructed by any one in Hamsell Street to sell goods under price—I was with Townsend in Wood Street—there was one transaction of 11 pairs of boots; the invoice price was 7s. 9d., they were sold at 6s. 9d., but Townaend told me he got an allowance of 1s. a pair on them—there was also some shirting of McIntyre, Hogg, and Co. at 3¾d. sold at 2¾d—I left Townsend and Co. because I received orders which were not executed, and I was not paid—I knew Townsend when he was in a very good position, and have sold him hundreds of pounds' worth of goods, when he was in Cripplegate Buildings.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Townsend entirely managed the business in Hamsell Street; he gave me instructions, and was responsible for everything that was done there—Shultz was the warehouseman—he entered all the orders in a book, and sent the orders off to the different manufacturers—I don't know whether he kept the ledger; I was never long enough in the warehouse to know—I did not know Aubyn—the only persons at Hamsell Street besides myself and Townsend were Shultz and a warehouse boy of 16 or 17—Shultz was the manager, and he and Townsend appeared to be friendly—I have frequently seen Shultz write—I have never received letters from him—he wrote pretty well—I believe this letter of 24th September to be Townsend's writing—to the best of my belief this letter of 4th April, signed Z. Martin Seal and Co., to Debenham and Tewson, is Townsend's writing—I was employed by the firm of Z. Martin Seal and Co., but the actual employment was by Townsend only.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I was employed as traveller to get orders on commission—I sometimes waited in the warehouse and wrote letters for Townsend, and assisted in any way I could—I received accounts, but never paid any—I was never on bad terms with Townsend—there were no accounts owing which I had collected—there were two small amounts for sample pairs of boots—I was not indebted to Townsend when I left—I was never paid for anything I did except for actual orders delivered—I gave him an I O U for a sovereign, but that was debited to me, charged to my commission account, I think, and I think I had some more money during the week, and I gave an I O U for the lot.

Re-examined. I was not employed in the counting-house; there was no counting-house—Townsend managed the cash himself, except that any he sent me to collect—I did not make any inquiry about Mr. Seal, as I had known Townsend so many years—he told me that when he sold the business in Cripplegate Buildings he was under an engagement not to commence business for three year, and consequently Mr. Seal acted, and he traded under the name of Z. Martin Seal, and Co., Mr. Seal being a friend of his—there was no banking account kept to my knowledge—the only cheques I saw were cheques for goods delivered.

THOMAS CHEETHAM . I am a member of the firm of Cheetham and Co., of Nottingham—I supplied hosiery goods to Townsend to the amount of 44l. from June to August, 1879—I never got paid—I had to sue him and

got judgment, but there was nothing to distrain upon—I supplied the goods on the character of his uncle, C. P. Townsend.

JOHN SEAL . I occupy 81, Wood Street, the premises formerly occupied by Townsend and Co., on the second floor—they used them as warehousemen in the drapery line—after they left a great many people came to inquire where they had gone, as money was owing—they left one or two letters behind them in my box, and I had a writ offered to me which I did not take.

Cross-examined by MR. OVEREND. I had known Townsend for years by sight—I knew him as some relation to Mr. Townsend, of Cripplegate Buildings.

By the COURT. I am no relation to the prisoner Seal; I never saw him before.

A number of witnesses deposed to Seal's good character.

GUILTY . TOWNSEND.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. SEAL Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-439

439. HENRY BOBEET SMITH (46) , breaking into a chapel and stealing 18 chairs and some music-books of Richard Soloman Blair.

MESSRS. POLAND, MONTAGU WILLIAMS and PURCELL Prosecuted RICHARD SOLOMAN BLAIR. I live at 3, Bath Street, Poplar, and am a Primitive Methodist Minister—on 13th July I conducted the service—I examined the offertory-box; it had been forced and broken open—I missed 18 chain from the chapel and have seen them since at the West Ham Police-station—I also missed four lamps and some music-books—en entry had been effected through the chapel window.

JOHN LLOYD (Detective Officer). On 14th July, about 6 o'clock, I saw the prisoner coming out of No. 104, Cable Street, carrying a chair—he went to 100, Cable Street, a barber's shop—I went in and took hold of him—he struggled to get away—in the yard I found seven more chairs—he said, "You have made a mistake"—I said, "I have not"—he said, "I can prove where I got them from, I brought them from a man at Forest Gate"—I went to his lodgings and found a great bulk of property which the prosecutor identified—I found some more chairs at Mrs. Doglow's and Mr. Gates's—I found three other lamps and some tea-urns—they were sold by the prisoner to a man in Leman Street.

SAMUEL SOLOMONS . I keep a tobaceo manufactory, 104, Cable Street, St. George's-in-the-East—I know the prisoner—I saw the chairs at my place on the evening of 13th July—I have bought various kinds of things from the prisoner.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not buy six chairs from you.

MATILDA DOGLOW . I am the wife of Julius Doglow, and live in St. George's-in—the East—I remember the prisoner bringing a chair to me—he offered me 10 chairs for 1l.—I afterwards gave them up to the police.

EMMANUEL ABRAHAMS . I live at 109, Leman Street, Whitechapel—I have knewn the prisoner 14 or 15 months—on 13th July I bought two chairs from him, also some bronze lamps—I left the property with Mr.

Solomons, my father-in-law, for a time—I bought a tea-urn from him on 11th or 12th June, also some red curtains, a clock and a carpet—I have seen all the articles since at the police-court.

ROBERT SYDNEY GATES . I am a tripe-dresser, of 102, Cable Street—I have purchased goods from the prisoner—I bought two chain of him for 4s.

GEORGE COX . I keep a coffee-shop, at 106, Cable Street, St. George's-in-the-East—the prisoner occupied the first floor back room for about 10 or 11 months—he slept in the room the night before he was taken—the police searched the room.

Cross-examined. Not half a hundred of people have slept in the room since you have been there—you occupied one of the beds.

THOMAS BUTTON . I live at 8, Chapman Row, Plaistow, and am a schoolboy—on Monday, 13th Jury, I was standing opposite the Primitive Methodist Chapel, about 25 minutes to 2 o'clock—I saw the prisoner coming from the chapel—he asked me to carry two chairs to Plaistow Station for 2d.—another boy and myself carried them, and the prisoner carried four more—they were standing on the pavement outside the chapel—there is a railing in front of the chapel.

JAMES ROMAINE . I am a porter at Plaistow Railway Station—on 13th July the prisoner was on the opposite platform—he asked me what time the train would leave for Leman Street—I said at 10.23—he then went and fetched four chain, and afterwards four more—he took them into the train, lamps and all—He went up again by the 2.42 with eight more chairs labelled for Stepney—just before he got into the train he put on a pair of glasses.

DOMINIC CARNEY . I am a shoeblack—I was outside the chapel on Tuesday, 13th July—the prisoner asked me to carry four chairs for him.

Prisoner's Defence. On the night of the 12th July I was told by Abrahams to go to Forest Gate and fetch a dozen chairs—when I came back I told him I could not get them—he went with me to several places till he came to a place, and handed me over the chairs—that was about 9 or 10 in the morning—I took them to the station—I afterwards went and fetched the others.

EMMANUEL ABRAHAMS (Re-examined). I told the prisoner I did not want the things—he gave me a receipt for 14s. 6d. for goblets—I never had any business with him till he brought the goblets to me—he persuaded my wife to buy the chairs.

GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to a conviction in January, 1873.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude. There were five other similar charges against him.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-440

440. HENRY CHAPMAN (31) , Rape on Susan Jane Petlow.

NOT GUILTY . Again indicted for an indecent assault

GUILTYTwelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-441

441. EDWARD CRONK (19) and WILLIAM ASHTON)(20) , Stealing a gelding, cart, harness, and other articles, the property of Henry Hubbard.

MR. WAITE Prosecuted; MR. LILLEY Defended Cronk.

HENRY HUBBARD . I live at 15, Devonshire Terrace, Forest Hill—on

15th July I was in the neighbourhood of the Blyth Hill Hotel, Forest Hill, driving a pony and trap, about 6 p.m.—I went into the hotel—I was there about three minutes—when I came out the horse and cart were gone—in the cart were a pair of boots, half a pound of tea, some cut flowers and two pot-flowers, three handkerchiefs, and a whip—this handkerchief has my name on it—I left it in the cart.—the value of the horse and cart was about £24—I have not since seen the boots nor the tea—I next saw the cart in the possession of the police at Tunbridge.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. The handkerchief produced had flowers in it—I had not been to any other public-house—it is about 2 1/2 miles from the Blyth Hotel to New Cross—I never saw Cronk before I saw him in custody.

WILLIAM BERKSHIRE . I live at 156, Malcolm Road, Forest Hill—I am a gardener—on 15th July, about 6.15, I saw a man in Hubbard's cart driving towards Forest Hill from Catford—I saw it 50 to 100 yards, then there was a turn in the road, and I could not see further.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. I did not see his face; the cart was coming from the direction of the Blyth Hill Hotel.

FREDERICK RANDALL (Kent Constabulary). On Monday, 16th July, I was in Tunbridge about 2.30 a.m.—I saw a horse and cart coming down the road—the pony was very tired, as if driven a long distance, and apparently lame—I saw Cronk only first—I stopped the pony then and saw Ashton in the cart—I drew Cronk's attention to the state of the leg—he said "It is all right"—I said "How far have you driven the pony?"—he said "I have come from London," and that he was going to Tunbridge Wells—I said "Who is the owner of the pony?" and Cronk said "This man in the cart"—I said "What is his name?"—he said "He is a stranger to me, but I believe his name is Morton, of Forest Hill"—Ashton was asleep—I roused him up, and said "Are you the owner of the horse and cart?"—he said "What the b—h—has that to do with you?—I said "It is to do with me, are you the owner of the horse and cart?"—he said "No, it belongs to a man named Morton, of Forest Hill"—I said "Is his name on the cart"—both answered "His name is on the cart" two or three times—I struck a match, and found the name of "Henry Hubbard, Forest Hill, S.E." on it—I said "There is something wrong here; I must detain you, and you will have to go to the police-station"—I was on duty—Ashton said "I shan't b well go to no police-station"—Cronk said to Ashton "You had better be civil"—I then took them to the station and charged them on suspicion with stealing the pony and cart—Ashton said "It was lent to me by a man named Morton to go for a ride"—Cronk said "I saw Ashton at New Cross, about 7 o'clock, and he asked me to go for a ride with him; I knew him very well; we have been more like brothers"—in the cart were a few cut flowers, mixed with the straw—both men were sober.

THOMAS HEMP (Detective Office P). I went to Tunbridge station from information I received on 16th July—the prisoners were brought from the cell to the charge room—I said to Cronk "I shall take you into custody for stealing a horse and cart, the property of Henry Hubbard, of Forest Hill; you will have to come with me to Sydenham police-station"—Cronk said "I picked him (Ashton) up on the road, he is a perfect stranger to me—I repeated the charge to Ashton—he said nothing—I found nothing on Ashton.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLBY. It is a little over three miles from the Blyth Hill Hotel to New Cross, where Cronk lives—from inquiry I found he is a brickmaker—I know nothing against him.

JOHN MARSHALL (Policeman P 419). I went with Hemp to Tunbridge Wells—I heard Cronk say that Ashton asked him to go for a ride—I found on Cronk these three handkerchiefs, one has the prosecutor's name on it; also 5d. in bronze.

Cronk'8 statement before the Magistrate. "I met Ashton at New Cross about a quarter after seven on Thursday night. He asked me to go for a ride and I went."—Ashton said "I do not recollect anything about it, I was drunk at the time."

Witnesses for Crunk.

GEORGE JENNETT . I live in James Street, Deptford—on Thursday evening, 15th July, I was walking in St. Donat's Road in the direction of Lewisham—I saw Ashton driving a horse and cart—he appeared intoxicated—he was alone—it was about 6.30 p.m.

Cross-examined. I looked at the cart as it passed me—I could not see if anyone was lying inside—I knew Ashton—I said nothing—I worked for a Mr. Ward last week, and for several people before that—I forget them—I have not been in trouble—I worked for Sir John Evelyn seven years—I am a plasterer.

SARAH CRONK . I am a widow—Cronk is my nephew—I live at New Cross—I have lived there 40 years—I sit at the side of the road with a little stall—my nephew is a good boy, and has always borne an honest character—he was employed in the brickfield—my house is near the New Cross Inn—we can see up into the road—on Thursday, 15th July, about 7 p.m, some people were running to see a balloon—I went to the top of the road, and near the New Cross Inn I saw a cart standing, and Ashton, sitting in it alone—my nephew came up and got into the cart with Ashton—I had seen Cronk at 6 o'clock that evening, standing against a post where there is water—something was said, when Cronk got in the cart, but I was not near enough to hear it—Ashton appeared to have had some drink—I saw Ashton there about a quarter of an hour—I was not there very long—I saw them drive off.

Cross-examined. I have known Ashton since he was a baby—Cronk and Ashton are not acquaintances more than to speak to one another—I did not notice which had the reins, they had them between them.

MICHAEL MURPHY . I live at New Cross, and am a dock labourer—on Thursday, 15th July, about 5.30 o'clock, I was at the New Cross Inn—I was in Cronk's company about three quarters of an hour—I did not see Ashton at all—I did not notice where Cronk went when he left—I went to Deptford—we had had some bread and cheese and beer together.

Cross-examined. I have known Ashton 14 or 15 years—I have seen Cronk and Ashton together plenty of times—they have drunk beer together at New Cross Inn and with other men.

JAMES CRONK . I am a bricklayer's labourer of New Cross—on 15th July, about 6.30, I was coming home from my work—I saw my brother, Edward Cronk, standing at the top of New Cross Hill—I had left work at 5.30, and I had had to come from Wandsworth—I spoke to him and remained in his company five minutes—I did not see Ashton—my brother has borne a respectable character; he has always been in employment;

if he had left his employment he would have chucked six or seven more men out of work.

Cross-examined by MR. WAITE. I knew Ashton as a boy; we were brought up together.

Re-examined. Ashton's parents live in the same neighbourhood.

CRONK— GUILTY of receiving.— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

ASHTON— GUILTY Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-442

442. GEORGE JOHNSTONE (19) , Stealing a bag, a concertina, and 41l. 9s., of James Fletcher Smith, in his dwelling-house. Second count— receiving the same.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted;MR. CHAPMAN Defended.

JAMES FLETCHER SMITH . I am a cheesemonger, of 22, High Street, Woolwich—at 1.30 on 27th June I locked up the house and went to bed, and put a bag containing 41l. 9s. under the head of my bed—at 6.30 I was aroused by a dog barking, and went downstairs and found the street-door open—I went into the room at the back of the shop and missed a concertina—I then went up to look for the bag and missed that—I gave information to the police—I know the prisoner—I went with Inspector Ford to his lodgings.

Cross-examined. I have two assistants, one is my brother, and the other Charles Moriety, living in Woolwich—I had Green an extra assistant on Saturday—it was about 1.15 when he left—I closed the shop about 12.30—I last saw the prisoner about 5 o'clock on Saturday afternoon—he came and had tea with me as a friend—I next saw him in bed on Sunday morning, when I went with the inspector—two other men were in the house when I heard the dog bark—it was the prisoner's dog.

Re-examined. I did not see Green leave the premises on Saturday—I heard the door slam—he was not on the premises to my knowledge when I shut up—the money was recovered.

ELIAS FORD (Inspector R). On Sunday, 27th June, at about 6.45 a.m, the prosecutor came to the station and gave information, and I went with him to his premises—there was no sign of a forcible entry—I then went with him to the prisoner's house and found him in bed, about 8.30—another officer, Davis, took up this flute (produced) which was on the side-board, and said, "How do you account for the possession of this flute t this answers the description of one stolen from Dale"—he said, "No, that is mine; you had better speak to my father on that' subject"—I said, "Smith, your friend, has met with a serious loss, and I am going to apprehend you on suspicion of having robbed him during the night"—he then asked me if I would allow him to speak to Smith in the passage—I did so, and cautioned Smith not to make any promises—the prisoner said in my hearing, "I know where the money is, and if you will promise me you will not prosecute, I will tell you where it is"—I said, "Make no promises, the case is in my hands"—I asked him for his keys, and said I should search his box—he said, "It is not necessary, I will give it you"—he unlocked a box in his room and handed out the concertina, and in succession three bags containing money—he said, "That is your money, Mr. Smith, as it was taken from your place"—Smith said, "Where is my black bag?"—he said, "In

the room," and turning the head of the bed down, from underneath the pillow he took a bag which had been broken open—he said, "I didn't do it; Green brought me the money about 2.30 in the morning"—I said to him, "What time did you get home?"—he said, "About 12.30, and supped with my aunt"—I said, "Did you let yourself in with a latchkey?"—he said, "No, I never carry a latchkey"—I called up the landlady.

Cross-examined. Davis was taken very ill this morning and is not here—I saw the prisoner's father.

GEORGE HENRY DALE . I live at 63, Vicarage Road, Plumstead—I left my house about 6 a.m. on 29th November, and on my return, about 1 o'clock, my flute was gone from the house.

Cross-examined. I recognise this flute by a cross marked on each key—it is not particularly light—the prisoner and I had one at the same time—his was the lightest—I knew the prisoner to be in possession of several flutes.

Re-examined. One of the rims of this flute is dented by a fall, and a piece is chipped out of the bottom—I am certain it is mine.

GUILTY of Receiving.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

There was another indictment against the prisoner, which was not proceded with.

Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-443

443. MARGARET EVERSON (32) , Unlawfully exposing William Everson, a child under two years' of age, whereby its life was endangered.

MR. POLAND for the prisoner offered no Evidence



Before Mr. Justice Hawkins.

Reference Number: t18800803-444

444. EMMA PLEASANCE (24) was indicted for the willful murder of Constance Laura Pleasance.


CHRISTINA WILDDERSPIN . I am the wife of Benjamin Wilderspin, a tailor, of 60, Walton Street, Chelsea—the prisoner came to lodge there on 4th May, and continued there till the 26th—she brought two children with her, a boy, named Willie, and a girl, Laura, but no man—the girl was about 4 year of age and the boy under 2 years, a year and a half, I fancy; he could not walk—I knew the prisoner as Mrs. Pleasance—she told me she had lodged in Trevor Square before coming to our place—when she first came the said she was going to take the boy to his aunt at Cambridge—on Saturday morning I got up at 8, and then found that the prisoner and the boy were gone; the girl was left at home—the prisoner came back alone—I did not see the boy again—on Wednesday, the 26th, I saw the prisoner and the little girl together until dinner-time, about 2 o'clock—the child was playing—Inspector White had been before she went out, and had seen her—I did not see the little girl alive again after about 3 o'clock—I did not see them go out—I saw the prisoner again that same night in one of the cells at the Walton Street Police-station, and had a short conversation with her—I said "Why did you not say something to me before you went out about taking Laura away"—she said she loved her children too well to leave them to the

mercy of the world—I think those were the exact words—I did not take her a change of clothes; I sent her some dry things off her bed to wrap round her; that was after 12 o'clock—Constable Leeson had been to me, and it was in consequence of that that I sent some dry things to the cell—I was there when she changed them; I helped to change them—the clothes she took off were very wet—when she said she loved her children too well to leave them to the mercy of the world, she said "I have drowned Laura; she died in my arms without a struggle; she was asleep at the time"—she also said she had tried to drown herself—Laura was a very healthy child—after the interview in the cell I went to the mortuary in Old Battersea, and there identified the body of Laura; she was then undressed; I saw the clothes; they were the same I had seen her wearing on the Wednesday—I always thought she was an affectionate mother to the children—I had more opportunity of seeing the girl than the boy—she was to pay 2s. 6d. a week rent; she had only one room—she paid 2s.—she offered my husband half a crown, and would have paid that, only we had no change—it was our fault that it was not paid.

Cross-examined. I first became acquainted with the prisoner four summers ago—at that time she was then living with Poole; I knew him as Mr. Pleasance; I did not know him as Poole—at that time she appeared to be contented and happy—I had no opportunity of seeing them together—he worked for my husband four summers ago—I then lost sight of them, until my husband met her just before she came to us—she was an industrious, hard-working woman four summers ago—when she came on 4th May I noticed that she was changed in her appearance; she was much thinner in the face, and she appeared to be labouring under great mental anxiety and depression of mind—she told me the cause to a certain extent—she appeared very much depressed and upset about Pleasance being taken away from her and put in an asylum—her altered circumstances was one of her sources of worry—I don't know of my own knowledge what their circumstances were—she was very scantily fed while with us—I have given the children food because they had not sufficient—she was unable to support herself and children until she obtained work—she was very anxious to obtain work; her not being able to do so was one of her troubles—she went out on several occasions searching for employment—she often talked of the change in her circumstances I think it preyed on her mind—on the day on which the boy left home the prisoner came home about tea-time—a person named Tanner came and gave me 5s. for her that same evening between 6 and 7, or later; I can't fix the hour—she told me that was a portion of money that was owing to her—this was on the Saturday—as far as I know up to that time she had been unable to get any work—I gave her the 5s. as soon as I received it—she offered to pay my husband half a crown for the first week's rent, next morning—she had two days' work in the week before she was arrested; as far as I know that was the only work she had—when I saw her in the cell on the morning of the 27th her hat was wet and her hair was wet, not dripping wet—the water was not pouring down her body; her under-clothing was thoroughly wet all over—I was examined on two occasions at the police-court—on the second occasion, when I was cross-examined by Mr. Dutton as to the conversation in the cell, I said something of this kind, "I wish I had seen you before you went out; I would have told you not to have done this," and I

believe the prisoner replied, "Never mind, poor little Laura is better off; I loved my child too well to leave it to the mercy of the world"—I said "I know you loved your child"—I can't recollect exactly what I said; it was something like that—I would not like to be perfectly sure whether she said "I loved my child too well," or "I loved my children too well," but I think it was "children."

Re-examined. All the time the prisoner was lodging with me she attended in the usual way to the household duties—she dressed the children every day, and attended to her room, and tried to get work—being in bad circumstances, she was low spirited—she had dressed Laura on the Wednesday—Tanner, who brought the 5s. for her, was a former landlord, where they lived in Arthur Street—I gave it her and told her who had left it—she said she wished that I had called her that she might have seen him.

BENJAMIN LEESON . (Policeman B 393). On Wednesday night, 26th May, about 1/2 past 12 o'clock, I was in Walton Street, Chelsea, watching opposite No. 60, in plain clothes—I had been watching there since about 1/4 to 2 o'clock in the afternoon—I did not see the prisoner till about 1/2 past 12 o'clock; she was then standing in the New Head, opposite Ovington Square, about 80 yards from No. 60, under the shadow of the gaslight, alone—I said, "Are you locked out"—she said, "No"—I said, "Did you have a little girl with you when you left home this afternoon—she laid, "Yes"—I said, "And your name is Mrs. Pleasance, is it not?"—she said, "Yes"—I said, "And where is your little girl now?"—she said, "Dead, in the water in Battersea Park, I drowned it, it died in my arms without a straggle"—I said, "Can it be true what you say?"—she said, "Yes, my poor Laura is in Heaven now, I hope"—I said, "Where is the little boy?" (Mr. Sleigh interposed, and as the fate of the boy was the subject of another indictment, he considered it should not be alluded to on the present charge. Mr. Justice Hawkins could not exclude the evidence, it being part of t)ie conversation between the prisoner and the witness, but the Jury would understand it would not affect the present inquiry)—she said, "I will say nothing of the little boy"—I said, "The matter is serious, be careful what you say as I shall have to repeat your words; you will have to go to the station with me"—she said, "Yes, I will go quietly"—I said, "I feel truly sorry for you"—she said, "You would if you knew my troubles"—I then took her to the station and handed her over to the custody of Inspector White—I noticed that her clothes were wet, I believe all over, her hat and hair were also wet—on Thursday, the 27th, I took her from the police-court to the prison in a cab—she made a statement which I afterwards put down, as soon as I had lodged her in the prison, and this is the note I made—she said, "Do you know who employed Mr. Dutton" (he had appeared for her before the Magistrate at the first hearing) "Is he for the prosecution or the defence?" I said, "For the defence."—she said, "I do not know the name, who he said employed him; I do not want the friends of the father of my children brought into the matter at all, as his sister and mother have been very kind to me, and they cannot help what I have done."—I said, "Do be careful what you say as I shall have to make use of your words; I don't ask you to My anything, and whatever you say it will be voluntary"—she said, "Mrs. Baird is a bad woman, and it was through her that my husband was taken away from me." She made some further statement about the other child, and then she said, "Young Mr. Wilcox was living with us in Trevor Square

a short time before my husband was taken away; he remained with me a short time after my husband left, and has visited me several times at Walton Square; he took a portmanteau away three weeks ago; I loved my children; they have cried for food, and I could not see it again, for I love them too much to leave them behind me.

Cross-examined. I was in the passage outside the cell when Mrs. Wilderspin was with the prisoner on the morning of the 27th of May—I don't remember speaking to Mrs. Wilderspin about the conversation she had with the prisoner—I have no recollection of asking her the exact words which the prisoner used—I don't believe I did—I swear I did not—I have no recollection of it—I really could not swear it, because I don't know—I had no reason for asking it—I was not trying to listen to the conversation, I was standing against the door, and had the door in my hand—I hare no recollection of asking Mrs. Wilderspin whether the prisoner said "child" or "children"—I might have said so, but I have no recollection of doing so—I wrote the words about loving the children, at the same time I wrote the rest, but I left those words out at first and added them afterwards, but at the same time—a photograph was taken of the head of the little boy; I had it in my possession—Mrs. Baird was taken to the mortuary to identify the head; I had shown her the photograph before she went there.

Re-examined. I took several persons to the mortuary to see if they could identify the head, and I showed the photograph to different persons for the purpose of making inquiry to find out whose head it was.

SQUIRE WHITE (Police Inspector E). On Wednesday, 22nd May, about half-past 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I went to No. 60, Walton Street, and saw the prisoner there—I had a conversation with her; I made a note of it, which I have here—I made some inquiry of her about the little boy who was missing, and she made a statement to me—I told her I was an Inspector of Police—there was a little girl standing by the side of her at the time, apparently about four years of age; she was dressed, and stood alongside of the prisoner, playing about; she appeared to be quite well—I was talking with the prisoner about five minutes—she appeared to understand my questions, and answered very freely; she did not hesitate at all—I afterwards gave directions to Constable Leeson to watch the house—I saw the prisoner again about half-past 12 o'clock that same night, standing in Walton Street; Leeson was there—I gave him some directions; I went a short distance and then I was fetched back to the police-station—the prisoner was there in custody—I took her into the Inspector's office—I saw that she wag wet—I said "Your clothes are wet"—she then said "I have drowned my poor,"—mentioning some name which I did not exactly catch, "she is past your reach"—I said "Where?"—she repeated "In Battersea Park, near the boats"—I noticed that all the lower part of her clothes were very wet, up to her chest; I did not feel to see whether they were wet further up; I did not notice her hat—I left her at the station and went immediately to the waters in Battersea Park, and on searching there I found the body of a female child floating in the water about eight yards from the edge, and between 300 and 400 yards from where the pleasure boats are, the water goes round—I went in a boat—the child was dressed; it had not a hat on; it appeared to be a child about 4 years of age; it was quite dead—I few it and rubbed it, and endeavoured to get life into it, but there was no sign, and I immediately took it to Dr. Kempster's house in a cab—he pronounced

it to be quite dead—it was about a quarter past 2 o'clock when I found the child, and very nearly 3 o'clock when I showed it to Dr. Kempster—to the best of my belief it was the same child that I had seen that afternoon with the prisoner—the body was taken to the mortuary by another officer, and I afterwards saw it there—I produce a certificate of the birth of Constance Pleasance, on 10th November, 1876, and also that of a boy named William on 5th October, 1878.

JANET BAIRD . I am a widow, and live at 17, Trevor Square, Knightsbridge—at the end of March, 1879, the prisoner came to live there with a man who I knew as Mr. Pleasance—they lived as husband and wife, and had two children, a girl named Laura, and a boy called Willie—they occupied two rooms on the drawing-room floor—the man left on 1st May—the parish officials had been communicated with and he was taken away by them as being insane—he was a French polisher—they were in very poor circumstances from Christmas—the prisoner left my place on 4th May with the children; she carried the boy and the little girl walked by her side—she paid 8s. 6d. a week rent—I went to the mortuary on 26th May, and there saw the body of the child Laura.

Cross-examined. The rooms they rented were unfurnished; they famished them themselves—the prisoner was a hard-working industrious woman as far as I saw—I cannot say that she and her husband were much attached to each other—the prisoner was very good to the children and was very fond of them as far as I saw—I believed that the prisoner was married to the man, up to last Christmas; she behaved herself in a respectable and proper manner—up to last Christmas the man had regular work, after that it fell off and they began to be in very different circumstances—I think the prisoner took in a little needle-work about Christmas time; she was very anxious to get work and did all she possibly could to get it—I think it troubled her very much not getting it; she seemed very despondent after Christmas—she treated the children well and was particularly careful in their dress—she took a pride in them—after Mr. Pleasance was taken away his brother came and took the property belonging to him; he paid the rent that was due to me and left her enough to furnish one room, a very small amount—the best part of everything was taken from her by the brother.

GEORGE WILCOX . I am a French polisher, of 5, Rutland Street, Brompton—I knew the prisoner when she lived at 17, Trevor Square—I lived there at the same time—I knew the man who lived with her; his real name was John Poole, but they lived there as Mr. and Mrs. Pleasance—I worked for Poole—I stayed there till the 1st May—I knew the children Laura and Willie—on Thursday, 6th May, I went to Walton Street and saw Willie—I never saw him afterwards—at that time Poole had been taken away, out of his mind—the girl Laura was playing in the yard—on Wednesday, 12th May, I again saw Laura; that was the last time I saw her alive—I did see the body at that time—I afterwards saw the body of Laura at the mortuary.

Cross-examined. Poole had known me from childhood; he and the prisoner had lived together as husband and wife for a few years, I don't know exactly how long—they were very fond of each other and lived happily together as far as I ever saw—she was very fond of her children; she did everything to keep them nice and clean—he worked regularly up

to Christmas, but I was not living at the house then, I went about the second week in March—she did not do any work herself while I was there; she seemed perfectly happy and contented until this change came—she then became more despondent and miserable—she complained to me after he was taken away of the difficulty of getting work; she appeared very anxious to get work, but appeared almost hopeless of getting it—she looked haggered and careworn.

WILLIAM HENRY KEMPSTER . I am a M.R.C.S. and lire at Oak House, Battersea—on Thursday morning, 27th May, between 2.30 and 3 o'clock, Inspector White brought me the body of a female child, apparently between three and four years of age; it was dead and cold, the rigor mortis had set in—in my judgment she had been dead several hours, probably five or six—there was no decomposition—she was beyond all medical aid—I made a post mortem examination on 31st; there was no sign of disease or any marks of violence—the stomach contained partly-digested food—in my judgment the cause of death was suffocation—if she had been put into the water and kept under until death took place that would produce the appearance I saw—in cases of ordinary drowning we generally find a frothy mucus about the mouth, in this case there was none—if a person was kept under the water until death took place I should not expect to find it, spasm of the glottis would ensue, and you would not find it.

Cross-examined. Supposing the woman had thrown herself into the water with the child, intending to drown herself, and had fallen down and so the child had been kept under water there would be no frothy mucus; what I mean is that the child must have been kept under water for sometime, from one to three minutes—I have had some experience of pregnant women—I have no knowledge myself of this woman's condition—when a woman is pregnant she is more likely to have local determination of blood—they are local determinations to the uterus principally—I cannot say that I have read Montgomery on the signs and symptoms of pregnancy, but I have had a large experience in those cases—I have read extracts of a book by Esquinol, but I must protest against being examined over the whole range of medicine; if you will ask me as to my own knowledge and experience I will answer you—with some pregnant women the cerebral disturbance amounts to a disorder of the intellectual faculties; some are subject to phantacies; in some exceptional cases they amount to a pervension of judgment, which sometimes becomes violently maniacal—I cannot say that the gloomy and desponding state is greater in the earlier stages of pregnancy than in the later—I have not observed it—there is a tendency to insanity amongst certain pregnant women—that tendency would be very much strengthened by trouble—want of sleep would be a collateral cause; the loss of dearly beloved friends might be; indeed any mental anxiety—sometimes the mental disturbance is so great that women will eat things which under other circumstances they would regard with loathing, and they will regard with antipathy persons for whom they entertain the greatest affection—the whole moral nature, in some exceptional cases, is changed.

WILLIAM SMILES . M.D., M.R.C.S. I am medical officer at the House of Detention—I have been there nearly 40 years, but have actually been surgeon there about 20 years—I saw the prisoner during the week she was there—I saw her several times during that period, and I conversed with her, but not to any great extent, as my opinion had not been asked about

her—I saw her as any other patient—I was not able to detect the slightest sign of insanity.

Cross-examined. As far as I know she is perfectly sane at this moment; I saw nothing like insanity about her—I suppose it is possible for a person to do an act in an insane moment and be perfectly sensible Boon after, but it is not very common—sometimes pregnant women take violent antipathies—in a few cases the physical disturbance may overthrow the mental faculties; it is very rare—I do not think that the tendency to the anticipation of evil is greater in the earlier stages of pregnancy; it is not my experience; I think they get more depressed as time goes on.

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . I am surgeon of Her Majesty's gaol of Newgate—I hate been so 25 years—I have had a large experience with male and female prisoners, and in cases of insanity—the prisoner has been in Newgate from 3rd June to the present time—I have seen her almost from day to day and conversed with her many times, especially with a view to ascertain the state of her mind—during the whole of the time she has been in Newgate, in my judgment she has been perfectly sane—I have seen no indications of insanity.

Cross-examined. A severe domestic affliction is one of the proximate causes of insanity—any great mental trouble may be the proximate cause of insanity; the loss of relatives or friends might be, or great pecuniary loss in some cases, long watching, great anxiety, and want of sleep, anything that tends to exhaust the nervous system—I should consider a combination of such causes, coupled with pregnancy, sufficient to account for derangement of mind—in pregnancy the moral judgment and intellectual faculties are very often disturbed—the prisoner is no doubt pregnant.

Re-examined. I should think she is about five months gone in pregnancy, and she has quickened.

CHRISTINA WILDERSPIN (Re-examined). The prisoner has complained to me that in consequence of her misery she could never get to sleep till nearly morning—she complained of that almost immediately after she came—she usually went to bed between 10 and 11 p.m.—she got up at various times, sometimes rather late, in consequence of her Want of sleep, perhaps not till 9 o'clock.

GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury. DEATH. The prisoner pleaded pregnancy in arrest of judgment, arid a Jury of Matrons having been summoned and having examined her, found that she was quick with child.— Judgment Respited.

Reference Number: t18800803-445

445. ANNA MARIA MARTIN (56) , indicted for the wilful murder of Elizabeth Barlow.

Upon the Evidence of Mr. John Rowland Gibson, surgeon of Newgate, the Jury found the prisoner to be insane and unable to plead, Odered to be detained till Her Majesty's pleasure be known.

Reference Number: t18800803-446

446. MARY RUTLEY PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully receiving two or more lunatics into her house, it not being an asylum or licensed under the Lunacy Acts.— Fined 50l .

Reference Number: t18800803-447

447. PLEASANCE LOUISA INGLE (39), was indicted for, and charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with, feloniously killing and slaying Louisa Morgan.


HOLKER, Q.C., and MR. MEAD Defended.

CHARLES MORGAN . I live at 42, Charlotte Street, Kent Road, and am an engineer's labourer—the deceased was my wife—her name was Louisa, and she was 27 years of age next birthday—we had been married nine years—up to three months before her death she had been generally in the enjoyment of good health—about six weeks ago she was admitted into Guy's Hospital as an in-patient—I went to see her there from time to time, the nurse Ingle was attending upon her—on Sunday, 4th. July, I went with my brother to the hospital about 2 o'clock p.m.—we were the first in that day—my wife was lying down, and she asked me to lower the pulley down—I did so, and she pulled herself up in a sitting position, and continued to sit up talking to us until we went away, at 4 o'clock—she was cheerful, and getting on nicely; she even smacked my brother's face—on the following Wednesday, the 7th, I saw her again—I saw an alteration in her directly I went in—I said to her, "Louey, what is the matter with you?"—she was lying cross-legged, and made a complaint to me, in consequence of which I spoke to the prisoner, saying, "Nurse, how came these bruises on my wife's arm?"—she said, "I know all about it"—I said, "If anything happens to my wife, you will have to give an account of it"—she made no remark, and went away—I did not tell the prisoner what the deceased had told me—I then saw Dr. Pavy, and told him about the bruises, and asked him if he would allow me to come in a little oftener, and my sister-in-law, and I then left—next morning I saw my wife again, and she was worse still—I don't think I saw the prisoner then, I think it was another nurse that was coming in to attend her—I went to the hospital every day after till the day of her death (21st July)—on one of those occasions the prisoner called me out of the ward and said something about my wife being hysterical, and that it was a very bad case—I said, "I want nothing at all to do with you"—on the Wednesday before I had this conversation with the nurse I looked at my wife's arm and chest—there were five bruises on the left—the right arm she could not raise out of the bed—there was a slight bruise upon her chest—on the Saturday after the Wednesday I was sent for to the hospital—the prisoner had left—the deceased was afraid of her, and used to dread seeing her coming along the ward—she complained to me three or four times, and on Wednesday, 21st July, about five minutes past 11 p.m., she died—she never rallied no more.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. My wife had been ill for some little time before she went to the hospital—I think she went in about 9th June—I was there every time I could get away, I never missed any time both Sunday and Wednesday too—on the Sunday I was there with my brother—she looked a good deal better, and I went home quite cheerful—she then told me she had been trying to dress herself on the previous Tuesday, and that she had had a fall by the bedside, No. 1 I was there at the time and assisted, it did not hurt her, she had slipped down by the side of the bed—I did not knew that she was suffering from consumption when she went into the hospital, not until we saw the paper over her bed, the first Sunday; I could not make it out, as I cannot read—when I spoke to Ingle about the bruises she did not say, "I do not know how they came there, but it might have been from the way she held on to the side of the bath;" nothing of the sort—she did not refer to the bath—my sister-in-law

was sitting by the bedside at the time—the prisoner did not say anything about going a second time to the bath and turning on the water when it was too hot—I was there on the Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and every day afterwards—Ingle did not tell me after that that she was sure that the doctors and the sisters were making a tool of my wife, nor did she say to anybody belonging to me that they were doing this in order to get rid of her—she did not complain that the doctors had not informed her what the patient was suffering from; I never heard anything of it—she did not say a word to me about my poor wife being hysterical; I do not think we had two minutes' conversation together the whole time I was there, only by the bedside—I remember asking Ingle to accept a present of a shilling on the Friday, when she called me out of the ward—I said to her, "Be kind to my wife, and I will bring you some flowers," when I gave her the shilling—my wife said that the nurse had been very kind to her—I said, "Which nurse?" and she pointed out a tall young lady; I do not know the person's name—I said, "Is that the lady?"—she said "Yes"—I said, "Which is your proper nurse?"—she said, "The black lady"—I did say to Ingle, "If you will be kind to my good lady I will bring you some flowers on Sunday, as you will not accept any money"—she said that she liked flowers, and would gladly accept them—I did not bring her any flowers—I did not see the bath—I think there were six or seven bruises upon the deceased altogether—I did not count them, the day I saw them I saw Dr. Pavy—the skin was black and blue.

SUSANNAH CROCKETT . I am sister of the Mary Ward at Guy's, and have been so six years or more—the prisoner was a paid day-nurse under my direction—she had been there about four months, I think—I remember the deceased; she was in the hospital for consumption—the prisoner as day-nurse had charge of her, and would perform her duties under my direction—she would have to come on duty at 8 a.m. until 9.50 p.m.—she would have to make the beds directly she came, and attend generally to the patients—if there was any dirt she would have to put on clean things, and if the patient was dirty she would have to attend to her—The prisoner came to me on Monday, 5th July; I was standing in the hall, in the centre of the ward, and she asked me if she might give No. 2 a bath (that was the number of the deceased's bed) as she had passed an evacuation in the bed—I said she might have a bath for the purpose of cleansing; that was all the conversation that passed between us—the prisoner then left me—there is a bath with hot and cold water in the centre of the ward, but not in the room where the patient was—a chair with wheels is provided if the patient is too weak to walk—the bath is 70 feet distant from No. 2 bed—I did not see the deceased taken to or from it—Dr. Pavy had charge of this case, and in the afternoon, between 2 and 4, he generally came round—there was nothing particular in the deceased's appearance that day, but afterwards there was a change—I saw her several times between the time she had the bath and Dr. Pavy's coming—I saw her that day about dinner-time, about 1 o'clock—I think most likely the last time was at 11 o'clock at night—I saw no very marked change in her that day—the next day she appeared worse—Mr. Howsell was the house-surgeon who had charge of this case—. he resides at the hospital, and is called the house-physician.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. The bath was given on the Monday—Dr. Pavy saw the patient on that same day, between 2 and 4 o'clock;

I was there; I was sent for—Dr. Pavy, Mr. Howell, and several clerks were there, and the nurse—at that time I did not observe any marked change in the patient's appearance—Dr. Pavy asked me if I knew about the bath, and I said I knew that she had had a bath—a variety of questions were put to me about the bath—Dr. Pavy did not draw my attention to any alteration in the patient's appearance, nor did any of the other doctors, and I did not observe any till the next day—she then seemed to be weaker, and there was a change of countenance, a sort of vacant stare; the countenance wore a distressed look, and when spoken to she did not answer readily or collectedly—I have charge of the Mary Ward, not of any other—I am the sister and have charge of all the nurses in that ward; I am the responsible head of that ward—I have had a large experience in nursing—in order to get to the bath, No. 2 patient would have to get out of bed and then be taken between a number of beds across the central hall, then turn to the right and into the bath room—there is an arch between the ward and the central hall which you have to pass under, and then get into the bath-room—there is a long raised bath there, not against the wall; you can walk round it—this sketch (produced) fairly represents it—there are four day nurses and two night curses—I saw this patient every day; she had been getting better up to a certain time, but not quite so well three days before the bath; but on the Monday when her husband came she was better—I saw her on the Sunday, she was cheerful and seemed to be rallying—I knew that she was suffering from consumption; I knew it by being present when Dr. Pavy visited her, soon after she was admitted—when the physicans attend it is the practice to go round to the various beds and examine the patients, and the students occasionally accompany them, and the nature of the disease is explained—I was present when Dr. Pavy gave the students an explanation of this disease; I cannot remember when that was—I don't remember his saying "This patient seems to have been suffering from various aches and pains, for which there seems no apparent cause at present"—he might have said so—he said nothing to me about hysteria, I don't remember it—I remember his saying something of this kind; "There is a certain pallor denoting mischief of some kind, I should say proceeding from an anaemic condition of the body, but we shall hear more when her case is thoroughly gone into"—it was when he was addressing the patients at the bedside I learnt that in his view the patient was suffering from consumption—I do not know whether it was on the first visit or not—that was the only communication I had on the subject, hearing what was said—I am the sister who is responsible for the nursing—it is very important that I should know exactly what a patient is suffering from, and I did know in this case; I knew what was alleged; I knew it too by being written up on the bed letter, on the card—the card is put there the first day the patient came in, but it may not have been written on that day—I do not mean that the disease is always written up the first day; also the date, and the prescription—the disease is not always described for some time, it might be weeks; I have known many instances of that—possibly it has not been ascertained—phthisis was the disease put on the card—that was put on some time before the patient died, before the bath; I am quite sure of that—this consumption was not in an active condition, the reverse, it was quiescent—there was lung mischief, but it was not developing itself—Dr. Pavy did not tell me that she had hysterical tendencies; I do not remember his saying that—I

heard that he wished her to get up, because she would become weaker by lying in bed—we very frequently have hysterical patients in the hospital, especially females—hysteria is a very common disease—a woman suffering from hysteria imagines that she has ailments which she really has not; many of them imagine that they cannot move their limbs; that is the form of the disease—a common way of treating them is to induce them to exert themselves—I have known such cases over and over again—Ingle is a fairly educated woman—when she came to me on the Monday morning she said the bath was wanted for cleansing purpose—I saw no harm in the patient having it, providing it was properly administered—I had not received from any of the medical men any injunction against the patient having a bath—she was put into a bath when she was first brought in—all patients are bathed upon admission—if a person is too ill they are not bathed—between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning, when this bath was given, the water would not be very hot, later on it would become more so—I gave no specific directions about the bath, I left that to Ingle—I gave her directions about the soiled bed—I saw her after the woman had been taken to the bath, and asked her where No. 2 was; I saw that the bed was vacant——she said she was in the bath-room—I said "Not in the bath?"—she said "No, she is sitting in a chair wrapped in a blanket," or something to that effect—she did not say she had placed her upon the chair in order that she slight have a good rest before she came back—I believe she said she was wrapped in a blanket—the prisoner has been there about four months—I lure had no cause to complain of her—we have not had many cases of tubercular disease of the brain in the hospital—I had an idea that this woman was suffering from it, after the bath, and before the post mortem examination—I was not informed of it—Dr. Pavy did not tell me—he said she seemed to have had a shock; he did not put it in any other form—none of the physicians told me that she was suffering from disease of the brain—I did not know that it was so important that I should know it—tubercular disease of the brain is fatal—I was not really informed of it, but I thought so from the symptoms—in tubercular disease the patients suffer from headache, and nausea, and torpor, a strong reluctance to use any exertion, a confusion of ideas, and difficulty in expressing what they want to express—inability to control the motions is one symptom, and inability to stand.

Re-examined. From the Wednesday, 9th Juno, when the patient first came in I knew that she was suffering from consumption; I think after one or two visits had been made by the physicians, and from the card at the head of the bed—the moment it is ascertained what the disease is it is put down on the paper, it is also the custom to enter the medicines prescribed; I have 56 beds under my charge—I cannot tell you the date when the word "phthisis" was first written on the paper—as she gradually got worse the symptoms led me to suppose she was suffering from tubercular disease of the brain; that was several days after Monday the 5th—as sister of the ward I act under the directions of the doctors, unless I had any special directions the patients would simply be nursed—I should not take upon myself to give a bath as medical treatment—this was the only bath she had, except the cleansing bath she had when she first came in—I could not say that I ever saw any hysteria in this patient—after the bath I heard Dr. Pavy mention the word, but I could not tell you exactly in what way.

EMMA COSTELLO .I am ward maid at St. Mary's Ward—on Monday

morning, July 5th, I was coming out of the bath-room at a quarter to 9 o'clock, I think it was, I will not be sure, in the direction of the hall which leads into the ward—I saw the nurse bringing the deceased into the bath-room and she said to me, "She has been very dirty; she has dirtied all her things"—I did not answer, I went back to my work, and some time afterwards I had occasion to go into the bath-room—I do not know what the time was then, but I think it must have been about a quarter-past 10 o'clock—(the deceased was dressed in her night dress, with her bootson—she had no covering except her nightdress—I did not see them before they got to the bath-room, coming down)—it was about quarter-part 10 o'clock when I went into the bath-room and saw them again, and then I saw the deceased sitting in the bath, at the foot of the bath, with her hands on the woodwork, trying to raise herself up—as soon as I opened the door she said, "Oh, Mary, I am so cold"—I said, "Can't you get out of the bath?"—she said, "No"—I then said, "Where is nurse?"—she said, "I don't know"—I then came out of the room and shut the door after me, and went to find the nurse, as the sister was not in the ward at the time—I found Ingle, the nurse, at No. 13 bed; the deceased's bed was No. 2—I did not notice what she was doing, but I think she was arranging the quilt; I said, "Do you know that No. 2 is in the bath, shivering, and she says she cannot get out"—she said, "Yes, I know she is in the bath, but she really is so very obstinate, she won't assist herself, and I am determined I won't help her"—nothing more was said—while this conversation was going on between me and the prisoner; I did not notice what she was doing—I went into the hall and saw patient No. 42, and asked her if she would not go into the bath-room and help the deceased to get some clothes on—about 10 minutes after I had the conversation by bed 13 Ingle went into the bath-room; I could, not see what took place but; 3 noticed that there was not much water in the loath, not sufficient to cover the deceased's hips; I cannot say how much there would be—the hath is worked by three taps, hot, cold, and waste—I did not put my hand in the hath at all—during the time I saw the prisoner with the deceased she had hold of her arm taking her to the bath; one leg she dragged behind, and the other leg she moved forward—the prisoner had hold of her, because her arm looped in her arm, the same as you take hold of another person's arm; I mean arm in arm—after she came out of the bath I saw her bringing her from the bath with a blanket over her head, I could not see her face—I saw them coming across the hall—coming back the prisoner had hold of her arm, dragging her in the same way, and she pushed the deceased's leg which dragged behind; she put her knee underneath the leg which was dragging, and kicked it along—while she was doing that I heard her say it was obstinacy; that she could walk if she liked—Ingle did not ask me to help the deceased at all.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. When I first saw the deceased being taken to the bath, she was close to the bath-room door, and I was close to the bath-room door too—Ingle had her arm in the deceased's arm, linked together—when next I saw them, Ingle was bringing her from the bath room—she had not one of her arms round the woman's waist—she had her arm linked in her arm as before—no one was with her—she brought her from the bath-room, through the hall—I was scrubbing the

floor, and I got up to watch them go down the division—there was a gentleman in the hall; I do not know his name—the deceased did not speak to him; she was not able to speak—I heard the nurse speak to him—I believed he was a student—when I saw the gentleman the deceased was in the bath, and he was sitting at a table writing—as she was taking the deceased from the bath, I saw a gentleman, and he spoke to them—the deceased and Ingle were then standing by one of the tables in the hall—I saw the nurse take the deceased down the division, and when she got to No. 6 bed she fell on the bed, and then she got her to No. 7, and jumped her the remainder of the way—I saw the woman leaning against the wall in the hall for support—she fell against the waggon, and coining away she fell against the table—when the nurse was coming away the deceased leant against the wall for support, near the clock, which is on one of the walls of the hall; I cannot describe which side it is, it is just before you come to the arch—I swear that she leant against the wall, not in the archway, before she came to the arch—there are several walls to lean against—she did not come straight across—that is the truth—before the Coroner I did not say a word about the woman jumping her, or about her falling on the bed—I am not under Ingle, I am in the same ward as her—she is my superior—I do not like her—she ordered me about sometimes—upon my oath, the woman leaned against the wall for support—I saw her do so—I did not notice that she was brought directly across the hall from the bath-room, because she staggered very much—nobody was there but the nurse; the Sister was not in the ward then; nobody but myself, and I was scrubbing the floor—I did not see any one there when this gentleman was speaking to them—I have no recollection of any one—I have not been told that the woman had hysteria—I did not know anything about her—I understood from Ingle that she had hysteria—she said that people with hysteria sometimes took a fit and would not feed themselves, and you were obliged to be very firm with them—that was soon after she had put her to bed; I do not know what the time was—what I first saw was the nurse with her arm linked in the deceased's arm close to the bath-room door—I am so sure of that that I will swear to it—they went into the bath-room directly; they were going into the bath-room when I saw them—no other woman was with Ingle at that time—I did not see anybody help Ingle to get the deceased across the hall—I saw them very near the door of the bath-room—they were about a dozen steps from the bath-room door when I first saw them—and then Ingle had her arm linked in Morgan's arm, and they came on to the bath-room, and that is ail I saw—the nurse came and asked me to shut the door, and I shut it—that was about a quarter or ten minutes to 9; I won't be certain—before the Coroner I swore: "About 9 o'clock I saw the deceased being dragged across the hall by the nurse Ingle; dragged towards the wall. Ingle had hold of her by one arm; I cannot say which arm. The deceased appeared not to want to go. I did not hear her say anything. No one was near her. The deceased was in her night-dress. I went into the bathroom before they went in"—that was true, as far as I can remember—from these steps I saw her being dragged by her arm, she was not walking—I intended to tell the Coroner's Jury that I saw her being dragged across the hall—I have not said that I was very glad that this woman was charged; but I never liked her from the first time I saw her—the deceased was not

going across the hall willingly—the Coroner asked me what I saw, and I told him I saw her dragged across the hall—the hall is the kitchen; the kitchen work is done there—it is very nearly as wide as where the Jury sit—you come across it to the bath-room.

Re-examined. Whether I liked her or whether I did not, I have told the truth here to-day—after she had put the patient in bed, she came into the lavatory, and I was there, and she said "Some people who have hysteria an very obstinate, and you are obliged to be very firm with them"—that was after the bath, and after the patient was in bed.

ELIZABETH COLLINS . I am a nurse at Guy's—on Monday, 5th July, I saw a patient being taken towards the bath-room—I do not know her name, but she went by the name of No. 2 in St. Mary's Ward—Mrs. Ingle was trying to take her to the bath, holding her by the arm—she seemed unable to walk, and her leg dragged after her, and then Mrs. Ingle called Nurse Distin to help her—she did not seem as if she wanted to nse her cruelly; she wanted her to walk—I did not see the patient in the bath—she did not seem to want to hurt her—I know Miss Burt, the matron—I have not had a conversation with her—I did not see the woman in the bath; I went to prayers—it was about 10 o'clock when I came back—from the time I saw the patient being taken towards the bath to the time I returned from prayers was about an hour and a half—at that time No. 2 was not in her bed—Miss Burt has not talked to me about this matter.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLEER. I heard the prisoner call Norse Distin to help her, and saw Nurse Distin go to help her—that was when they were about half way across the ward—Nurse Distin did help Ingle with the patient to the bath-room; she went to the other side of her—I did not see her so far as the bath-room—that was about 8.30 a, m., because I was just finishing my work—I went to prayers at 9.30, and prayers are over at 10—there is a chapel in the hospital—I did not hear that the patient was hysterical—I did not hear orders given by the doctor that she was to try to walk—patients who are in a weak condition we take in a chair to the bath, and when they come back we put them in a wheel chair.

SARAH BAILEY .I was at Guy's Hospital on Monday, 5th July, at a patient in No. 6 bed in the Mary Ward—I had been there about ten weeks—I had been there some time before; I was five months in the hospital—I know the Nurse Ingle—on the Monday morning, 5th July, I saw her with the patient Mrs. Morgan; as near as I can remember about half-past 8—her bed was No. 2—I saw Nurse Ingle take Mrs. Morgan from her bed with her night-dress on; Ingle took her along the ward—she was not able to walk, and she was holding her under her arms—she took her past my bed towards the hall; I saw the state of the patient as she passed my bed; she was naked above her knees; she was not able to walk, and she fell upon my bed, and Nurse Ingle took her underneath her arms and called upon one of the other nurses to help her, and took her out towards the dining-hall—I saw her return; I think it was more than an hour and a half before she returned; Ingle came back with her; she brought her back with a counterpane over her head; she took her underneath the arms, and as she could not walk she kicked her legs out in front until she got her to the bed, and then she lifted her into the bed and left her there.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER.I was sitting up in bed—I do not know the name of the patient in bed No. 3; we go by the numbers—I

believe it was Nurse Distin whom Ingle called to her assistance—it was not a blanket the poor woman had over her; it was a red counterpane—they were alone; there were patients standing about the room, but nobody to help—several people were in the room—I was not before the Coroner.

KATE LEASK . I am one of the nurses at Guy's—I sleep in the bed next to Nurse Ingle—on 10th July she said that she had been annoyed by one of her patients soiling the bed, and as a punishment she should have a bath, and walk to it with her assistance; not that she had had a bath—she did not say what the patient's name was, or when it was that she had done it.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. I was not before the Coroner's inquest—I do not know whether Ingle was removed from the ward—the conversation with her was the night she went away at 5 o'clock—I don't know what time she goes off duty—the conversation was in my room; we were both off duty; Ingle was crying; I asked her what she was crying about; she said that she had been dismissed by the Treasurer for an error of judgment; she did not say what the error of judgment was, or tell me why she was dismissed—I had no further conversation with her about her dismissal—no patient's name or number was mentioned.

By the COURT. She passed my room crying, and I called her in—she told me that she had been annoyed with one of her patients—I do not remember how the conversation began; she said that she had been dismissed by the Treasurer, but whether that was before this conversation I cannot be sure, because I don't remember—I think the first thing that she said was that she had been annoyed by one of the patients, but I do not recollect how the conversation commenced—I called her into my room, but I cannot recollect how it commenced.

FREDERICK WILLIAM PAVT , M.D., F. R C. P. I am one of the physicians of Guy's Hospital—I have been connected with the hospital 33 years from my student days—I remember this patient, Louisa Morgan, being admitted into the Mary Ward, to No. 2 bed, on Wednesday, 9th of June—I saw her on the same day that she was admitted—she was suffering from consumption, affecting the lower part of the left lung, and there were various erratic pains, which, in the absence of any tangible cause, I put down to her being hysterical, and was supported in that opinion by the previous history, which was to the effect that she had been married at 16 years of age, which was 10 years previously, her age being 26, that she had had one child, a year after her marriage, and had no family since, and was the subject of a leucorrhoeal discharge—I examined her chest—there were no marked symptoms of consumption—we were guided by the results of the physical examination of the chest—it is the practice to put upon paper the name of the patient and the name of the disease; I have that paper here (produced)—this is upon a printed form, "No. 2, Mary Ward; name of the patient, Louisa Morgan; age, 26; name of disease, phthisis, left side"—I don't know whose writing that is—the physician dictates the name of the disease to the clinical clerk, and the clinical clerk writes it down, and also the prescription—I prescribed for her and the clinical clerk wrote it down, and on that paper my first prescription is entered on June 9th—I do not go the rounds of the hospital every afternoon; I go three times a week—after the 9th June, I went from time to time to see this patient—I saw her on Friday, 2nd July—during all this time, from 9th June to 2nd July, she had no attack to my knowledge of hysteria—I had not all this time treated her entirely

for the disease of the left lung; her general condition was weakness general weakness; that was the main feature of her case—about a fortnight afterwards I said to the sister that it was desirable that she should be got up in the evening if possible, saying that the longer she remained in bed the weaker she would get—on Friday, 2nd July, there was scarcely any difference in her from the time of her admission into the hospital—I found nothing serious in her state about that time; but on 2nd July, or it might have been the Wednesday previous, my attention was called to her complaining of a pain in her left leg; I examined her left leg, and could not find any tangible cause for the pain—she seemed to be as usual—the next time I saw her was Monday, 5th July, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, or a little after 3 o'clock—I was struck with her altered appearance, and I made the exclamation, "What has occurred to make this alteration?"—she was in bed—Nurse Ingle then was present, and the patient No. 2 made a statement to me—Ingle was standing at the foot of the bed, and I should think she could hear, I have no reason to believe that she could not; she was standing at the foot of the bed—the patient was in a feeble state and crying—it was made in a hesitating manner; disconnected or hesitating—I sat on the bed in order to hear better what she said—when she made the statement Ingle made no reply to it—she spoke in a voice which could be heard, and I should repeat her answers, because the students were all round—I had not to put my ear to her mouth—it was in a voice sufficiently loud for those standing round the bed to hear her, but in my way of putting questions to patients, I very often repeat the answers—I will not say that she spoke so loud that Ingle heard all she said, but she spoke sufficiently loud for a person standing where the nurse was to hear what she said—I was not obliged to sit on the bed to hear what she said, but in order that I might the better hear what she said; I am a little hard of hearing myself; I don't say it with reference to this case, but I find I am obliged to put questions twice to hear the answer—that may be the fault of the questioner—she was half crying—I do not mean to say that some portion of the conversation in my judgment she could not hear—just the same as I should say of every conversation, that I cannot say that every word was audible—it was ordinary conversation, such as in my judgment a person standing where she was could have heard; and the substance of the conversation I am sure would be heard by the nurse—she made no remark, but she made a remark afterwards that I had not made any inquiries of her—the deceased said, "I was taken to the bath-room this morning, and placed in a bath with cold water to begin with, and was kept in the bath for an hour and a half;" she then went on to say, "I could not help it; it was a mistake that any one is liable to make sometimes"—she said she was in the bath some time before warm water was turned on—Ingle said nothing at that time—I found the patient half crying, and there was this further said, that she had not been able to get warm since—she seemed cold and was shivering—I did not examine her at that time to see if her state of health had been affected at all, but I made the observation at once that this patient's statement must be inquired into, and I sent for the sister of the ward, who was attending with another physician at the time—I told her what the patient had said—Ingle was there then, and I paid that the matter must be fully investigated—I requested the house physician, Mr. Howell, to obtain full particulars, and to place them before

me at my next visit—he resides in the hospital—that was all that passed—supposing the statement of the patient was correct, she was in such a state as I should expect her to be in if she had had this bath given to her; in such a state of cold and shivering; just the state which would be produced by the bath which had been previously administered—I had not ordered a bath for her—in the state she was in it was not a prudent thing to take her from the bed and give her a bath, and keep her away for the time stated, but an ordinary cleansing bath would not be improper then; I should expect proper care to be taken, and if she could not walk she should be carried in a chair—I do not think she was in a fit state to walk from the bed to the bath and back—I saw her again on Wednesday, the 7th—the house physician was with me, and on account of what he said, I carefully examined her body, and found several bruise marks on the left arm—there were bruise marks also, but not to the same extent, on the right arm, and an extensive bruise on the left leg, and the skin there was abraded; the marks on the arm were just the bruises you would expect from the arm being pinched very tightly; when I say pinched, I mean taken hold of—when a patient is in bad health she would very likely show bruises more readily—she was depressed, but there were no inflammatory symptoms at that time, and she was able to talk to me in the ordinary way—on that Wednesday evening I went down specially to see her again, and she was in about the same state—next day, Thursday, the 8th, I found her in quite a different state; she had a flushed face, a hot skin, a frequent pulse, and she looked about in somewhat a vacant manner, giving me the impression that tubercular inflammation of the brain was setting in—there might be many causes for that, but to make the matter intelligible a little explanation will be required; I am quite ready, for the sake of assistance in this matter, to give that explanation—rough treatment and exposure to the cold, with a patient suffering from lung disease, would set up tubercular inflammation; with such a predisposition existing, and a person suffering from consumption has that predisposition, I should say that such treatment as the patient was subjected to would be calculated to act as a sufficient exciting cause—supposing what was done to the patient on Monday morning did operate as the exciting cause, I do not say tubercular signs would show themselves on the third day, but that would be an ordinary time—on this Thursday when I saw the signs of tubercular inflammation in the brain, the patient did not decidedly rally, there was a slight rally; she became more conscious for a time) but afterwards relapsed into a more serious state than she was before—I saw her afterwards every day, except one of the two Sundays; I went on purpose to see her, and from day to day the disease progressed in the ordinary course of tubercular inflammation of the brain, and she died on Wednesday, July 21st to the 22nd; that was a fortnight after I first recognized the tubercular inflammation of the brain—in the meantime I had caused the nurse to be removed from the ward; on Friday, the 9th, I thought her presence was prejudicial to the patient—I spoke to Dr. Stephens, and she was removed immediately—I was afterwards present at the post-mortem examination with Mr. Howell—I found that there was disease on the left lung of long standing, not in an active state—I found that my belief of tubercular disease of the brain having set in was correct; there was an extensive tubercular deposit, with inflammation of the membranes, especially noticeable at the summit of the brain, and inflammation of the

membranes; there were also two inflammatory masses just below the surface of one hemisphere of the brain; there was also some tubercular deposit at the base of the brain, but that was insignificant in proportion to the other—the immediate cause of death was tubercular inflammation of the brain—there was also disease found in the pelvic region of the body, connected with the Fallopian tubes, which are in the broad ligaments of the womb—that had preceded and had been at the foundation of her having no family and had been the cause of the hysterical symptoms—there were cysts, one of which had opened into the bowel, and the contents of the cyst had discharged into the bowel—there was an opening existing between one of the cyst and the bowel; a patient in that condition would be very likely to soil the bed, I think—supposing this disease of the brain had not set in, from the state in which I found the left lung she might have lived for some time—I was beginning to be unfavourably impressed by the feature, when she first came in I thought favourably of her case, but after some time I began to be unfavourably impressed by that feature, but I saw no immediate danger—I had before July began to be unfavourably impressed; not from the disease of the lungs, but from the general state of the patient not improving to the extent that I could have desired—I am merely mentioning to you an impression after the patient had been in three weeks, and before the day of the bath—I did not look to the bruises in the post-mortem room.

Cross-examined by Sin JOHN HOLKER. The bruises had nothing to do with the death—the skin was discoloured, what ordinary mortals would call black and blue—the skin of an invalid is easily discoloured, especially that of a woman, and more especially if an invalid—I cannot say whether the flesh of a woman is more easily discoloured than that of a man—the cyst connected with the broad ligament of the womb, was of old standing—they may have been going on for years—they might have started into existence after the first child was born, and they would have prevented her having a family—the cyst was in a state of suppuration—the cause of death was inflammation of the brain, tubercular meningitis; that is, inflammation of the brain set up in consequence of the presence of tubercles—there were a considerable number of tubercles, especially at the summit; there were some at the base—there were some masses of deposit on one of the hemispheres of the brain, what we call yellow tubercles, and there were also grey tubercles, but the principal portion at the summit of the brain were yellow tubercles—the grey tubercles were chiefly at the base of the brain—the disease which was the cause of death, inflammation of the brain caused by the tubercles, is caused tubercular meningitis—if there were tubercles without inflammation, we should simply speak of tubercles of the brain—the deceased had hysterical symptoms—I said so in consequence of the erratic pains, which I could not account for from disease—I have said she was suffering from consumption of the left lung, accompanied by hysterical tendency but no hysterical fits—when a patient first comes in she is examined—sometimes we have some difficulty in ascertaining what the disease is and on some occasions the disease may be only inserted on the paper after some time—that not unfrequently happens—the clinical clerk filled up this paper—it is filled up in different writings; one clinical clerk succeeds another—the clinicle clerk takes the account from the physician, and makes notes from day to day—you draw my attention to that paper being in a different

writing; the name of the disease, "phthisis," was said to be filled in afterwards; that is certainly not with my knowledge, I should consider it most reprehensible; and if you look at it you will find that it is in the same writing as the name of the disease—Dr. Steele, the superintendent of the hospital, suggested that—there has not been a great deal of difficulty about; this case—the public know well that there has been a good deal, of unpleasantness at Guy's about the nurses; about some fresh system of nursing—there is a difference between the nurses; about some fresh system of nursing staff—I mean that some one suggested that this has been filled in since the facts were all discovered—I cannot tell you when I first saw the paper at the top of the bed filled up in tins way, but as far as I know it was filled in within a few days of the patient's admission; I am speaking of the name of the disease; if you notice, it is in the same writing as the first prescription, and the subsequent prescriptions are in a different writing; I cannot tell who wrote it—"Louisa Morgan" may be in a different writing to the words "Phthisis, left side"—I say, "The patient seemed to he suffering from various aches and pains, for which there was no tangible cause at present, but there was a certain pallor probably proceeding from an anaemic condition of the blood"—anaemic means pallid; the substance of it is that the patient was vary much out of health—if we have a patient suffering from acnes and pains of this kind, that is known as hysteria; but we have aches and pains also in the male subject which cannot be caused by hysteria—I say she was suffering from consumption with hysterical symptoms; I have to do. with a great many hysterical subjects—hysteria is a well recognised disease, but it is very peculiar—I do not admit that a person suffering from hysteria "fancies" she has got a number of aches and pains which she has not got; I believe she feels these aches and pains, hut the tangible cause on them does not exist; it is necessarily belonging to females—I have not known men hystarical, but hypochondriacal—there may be aches on pains without a tangible cause in a man or in a woman, just the same as there may be palpitation of the heart; it depends upon wrong nerve action;—a woman suffering from hysterical symptoms may undoubtedly imagine that she is unable to more her limbs when she is able to move them; that happens from time to time—it is not the common thing for physicians to put the patient in such a position as she shall be obliged to exert herself—with a patient suffering from hysteria, galvanism may be used; we endeavour to bring to the knowledge of the patient that she has the power of using her limbs; we do that if we induce her to use them—if we have got An hystarical patient, and her feeling is that she cannot use her limbs, the best way is to induce her to use them—I have spoken about this woman having hysterical symptoms; I said that it would be better for her if she got up; that was about a fortnight after her admission—I may have said so twice, but not on sevaral occasions—after the sister had drawn my attention to the pain in the left leg, and I saw that she was very weak, and said to the sister, that she must use her own judgment on the subject, as to whether, she was equal to getting up or not, of an evening—when I saw her on 5th July, I have no decided knowledge of being informed that a few days prior to that she had got up and attempted to dress and had fallen—I heard it mentioned at the Inquest; I am not aware that I had heard it before—the consumption, the mischief in the lungs, had nothing to do with the other disease, except as predisposing the patient to tubercle—the real cause of death was the tubercular

inflammation of the brain which was set up—as a rule, I do not tell the sister of the ward what the disease is which the patient is suffering from—the sister has nothing to do with the name of the disease; she has to do with the nursing arrangements, which are conducted on general principles, or with the disease itself, unless it is anything requiring special instructions—supposing the patient had been suffering from tubercle of the brain when she came in, I should not have given special instructions to the sister; nothing more than the directions which were given—tubercle of the brain is not uncommon—tubercular meningitis is a common form of death—tubercle of the brain does not invariably end in tubercular meningitis; it does not always produce inflammation—tubercle of the brain is not generally fatal—tubercle of the brain does not kill as tubercle of the brain, unless it has grown to such a size as to press upon the brain substance, and set up inflammation—we know nothing of tubercle of the brain until it grows, so as to press upon the brain; it is not the tubercle which we know, but the effects of the tubercle—tubercles have been found in the brain of persons who died from other causes; so I say, I do not know—how can I say that persons can have tubercle on the brain and recover—my answer is simply this, that tubercle of the brain is discovered in post-mortem examinations without having caused death, and there being good ground for believing that it has existed for some considerable time previously, and therefore we do not know, if the patient had lived, how long it would have gone on; it might have got into a cheesy condition, and remained in a dormant state—I cannot tell you how long it might have been there, because there was no opportunity of knowing when it came there—if there are no symptoms to indicate the commencement, how can I date it?—I say that a person may have tubercle upon the brain without having any symptoms; you are putting me to answer an impossibility—tubercle of the brain generally produces inflammation and death—it must do, but there are cases where a person has all the symptoms of tubercular meningitis, and may recover, but you look upon it always as a fatal disease—I say tubercle may exist in the brain without any symptoms—inflammation will not set up unless the tubercle has grown sufficiently to press upon the brain—a slight rise of temperature is not an indication of tubercle, but it is an accompaniment; continued headache may be an accompaniment, and nausea may be; vomiting is another symptom of the inflammation; I must get you to distinguish between tubercle and inflammation—supposing the tubercle has grown, and is pressing upon the brain, that would produce headache; it is what constitutes a tumour of the brain, but you would have no inflammation—where the tubercle has grown and is pressing upon the brain headache would be one of the symptons I should look for, but not a rise in temperature, unless there is inflammation—I should look for nausea and positive sickness, but not torpor and great languor—I should not expect a patient to be in a state of torpidity—I should expect a patient to have an objection to exercising, and I should look for partial paralysis; paralysis generally appears more in one limb than the other—I should expect a patient to involuntarily cast motions, according to the extent to which the growth has advanced, after it has produced decided paralytic symptons: even without inflammation; you have a foreign body in the brain structure—supposing the tubercle had advanced to such an extent and pressed to such an extent upon the brain that it produced

headache, nausea, sickness, disinclination to move, and inability to use the limbs, and loss of the power to retain the motions, I should say that the patient would be in a different condition altogether to this patient; in that case I should certainly not judge it necessary to give special directions with regard to her—I consider that in such a case that it would be a proper thing to give a woman a bath in order to cleanse her; even though she was in the condition described, she ought to have a cleanse bath; it is the duty of the nurse to give it—tubercle does frequently end in inflammation of the brain—its ordinary period of duration is about a fortnight; certainly not six weeks; that is a mistake; that is tubercular inflammation—if you cannot give the commencement how can you date it—tubercular meningitis has not been known to run six weeks, nor tubercular disease ending in meningitis; that is a disease which lasts for years—it is not well recognized in the profession that tubercular disease, which ends in meningitis, runs about six weeks, because there is reason to believe that tubercles may exist fox months or years—I did not see the patient on the Sunday before the bath; I saw her on the Friday—she was then complaining of a pain in her left leg, which was, I think, attributable to pressure of this cyst on the nerves, which would also account for any weakness in the leg—I said before the Coroner, that when I saw her she was as usual, that there was nothing urgent in her condition—she was in about the same state—I said there was no sensible alteration in her condition during the month previous to the use of the bath—I saw the clinical report to-day; I asked for it, it was taken away, I do not know by whom; I suppose by Dr. Steele, the superintendent—these clinical reports are for the physician—I considered it belonged to me—it is the ordinary practice to have reports prepared, and to-day is the first day I have had an opportunity of reading it—on the 11th June, that was on the day after the admission, the condition of her temperature is put as 100.4, and on the 12th as 99.8—the normal temperature is 98.4—on the 16th there is "still complains of headache; says she was worse after taking her medicine"—the medicine contained some opium—"A harsh sound is heard at the left apex;" that was in connection with the consumption—"Appetite not so good to-day; tongue rather furred; bowels open; headache is less than it was, but still complains slightly"—that is on June 20th; you will find no mention of headache afterwards—I think my attention was drawn to the headache at this date—there was nothingspecial in the rise of temperature from 98 to 100.4; then there is nothing until the 25th—there might be nothing to note down particularly—in an urgent case of tubercular meningitis there is a daily record—the headache had left her on the 25th—on the evening of the 7th July the temperature is 100.8; it is written as 7th July and evidently applies to the 8th, because the account on the 7th exactly corresponds with what I observed to be the condition of the patient on the 8th—I did not take her temperature—the report goes to July 14th, when the temperature is 103; that is the temperature of tubercular meningitis—we cannot say any specific temperature, but when a patient has a temperature of 102 or 103, we should expect it to go on increasing gradually until death—I see the last recorded temperature is 106—that is not precisely the temperature of tubercular meningitis it may be °f fever or inflammation of the lungs—it would be the temperature I should look for if tubercular meningitis was there, but there are modifying influences—I should expect it to be progressive, perhaps until just at the

last, when a collapsed state might be induced—rise in temperature, headache, nausea, sickness, and so on would not be an indication of mischief in the brain, of tubercular deposit, or you would have hundreds and thousands of persons as suffering from inflammation of the brain who had none—these things may arise from other causes—there is nothing indicative in that report of disease of the brain—hysterical symptoms are not associated with disease of the brain—I never knew such a case—I do not know that I can call one to mind—there might be hysterical symptoms, the influence of the disease on the brain might act in that way—I do not say that the bath set up the tubercles—I cannot say that tubercles were there when the bath was taken—I have not said that the bath would probably cause tubercular disease—it would cause inflammation; any excitement would cause that, if there was the predisposition existing—I should think an animated conversation of some duration would be likely to set it up—a very slight cause can do so—a bath properly administered would certainly not be likely to set it up, not in my opinion—certainly not a cleansing bath—if this woman had been hysterical there would not be anything wrong in assisting her to the bath—if she had been suffering from tubercular deposit, not accompanied by inflammation, there wouldn't be anything wrong in it—the impropriety which the prisoner was guilty of was, in my opinion, giving her a cold bath and keeping her there for a long time, and in taking her to the bath as she did—when she found the patient couldn't walk she ought not to have exercised her own judgment that she could walk if she chose, she ought to have assisted her—it might be that if she was hysterical she would suppose she couldn't walk when she really could if she chose to exert herself; but it is not for the nurses to judge—I had recommended that she should try and sit up, to get out of bed and to dress—the marked difference which I saw in the patient was a distressed appearance—I questioned her and she answered in the way I have described—I did not ask the prisoner about it—I had nothing to do with the nurse—I did not ignore the nurse—a statement of that kind made by a patient, and a nurse implicated standing at the foot of the bed, it was not for me to decide between the patient and the nurse—I asked her nothing about it—I did not give her any opportunity of explanation—the first time time at which symptoms of inflammation appeared was on Thursday—I then discovered tubercular inflammation, a fatal disease, which undoubtedly caused her death—I think you will find effervescents ordered on that day—no alteration was made in the name of the disease, or any special instructions given—I should consider that the bath ought to have been given in bed—it would have been improper to have taken her to the bath and have given it to her, when urgent symptoms set it—I would not say "most improper," if it was done with care—if she was put into a chair and carried to the bath, and then a cleansing bath used, I do not consider that would have been improper—that is my view—it would entirely depend on the state of the patient—I did not give any specific instructions as to how she should be treated by the nurses when I found she suffered from tubercular meningitis; no word as to whether she was to be given a bath or not—I did not tell any nurse that she was suffering from tubercular meningitis—I left it to them to exercise their common sense and humanity—their common sense would tell then what was the condition of the patient—they could easily see that she

was in a serious state—they ought not to form a judgment, they ought to go upon our instructions—they ought not to initiate; they require no instructions, because they ought not to initiate medical treatment, or a bath directed to medical treatment—I leave it to them to form their own judgment whether a patient is in a fit condition to have a cleansing bath or not; although the patient might be in a condition of tubercular meningitis—the post-mortem disclosed large inflammatory matter; inflammation would arise from the tubercle—I saw a great number of tubercles, yellow and grey—the yellow was in excess—they had to some extent pressed upon the brain—they were at the surface—Dr. Goodheart conducted the post-mortem examination—Mr. Howell was there—he is house physician, a qualified medical practitioner—I cannot say how long a case, of tubercles exists generally before it ends in inflammation—a woman in whose brain tubercles exist is extremely liable to inflammation.

Re-examined. Susannah Crockett, the sister, is a person of very large experience—she superintends the nurses in her ward and has the control of them—she exercises her own judgment as to the ordinary nursing routine, as to getting the patient out of bed and giving her a bath; she ought not to interfere in the medical treatment—I do not say there has been no interference—the clinical clerk who took down this paper is generally one of the students—it would be convenient for reference by the physician if he wanted to know the state of a patient at any particular day, or as a record afterwards—I think on the 15th June is the last time headaches are mentioned—the entry on the 6th July is: "The patient much worse this morning. Yesterday had a very prolonged bath, almost cold water; remained in it a considerable time; appears to have suffered from a severe mental shock"—that is an accurate account of the state of the patient on that day—I believe the description on 7th refers to the 8th—Dr, Mahomed, the registrar of the hospital, would see this from time to time.

THOMAS ARTHUR IVES HOWELL . I am hospital physician at Guy's—I recollect the deceased—I did not come in as resident horse physician till the 1st July—that was the first time I saw her—from that day up to the day the bath was given her I saw her; she was able to sit up in bed and converse; after the bath she was not able to do so; she laid down in bed, and as far as I am aware she never sat up afterwards—I noticed her state from day to day before the bath—I noticed the difference in her the morning after she had the bath—I got in the ward a few minutes before 1 o'clock—I went up to her in the ordinary way and asked her how she was; she could not or did not answer me—I stayed there for some time trying to see what I could make out of her; it was such a change as to cause my attention—no statement was made to me till the afternoon and then it was not made to me directly—I found about four or five bruises on the left arm and a Iarge bruise on the inner side of the left elbow two smaller bruises on the left arm, also a bruise on the elbow, two on the inner side of the right arm, and several down from the left knee to the ankle of the left leg in front; a pressure of the fingers would have caused those bruises on the fore arm, they had that appearance—they were such as could be caused by a grip of the hand—I was present at the post-mortem—I came in just as it was being finished—I have heard Dr. Pavy's evidence, and agree with it, as to the post-mortem, and the cause of death, and as to whether this was the right or wrong treatment of the woman—she was complaining of aches and pains before the

bath, but whether they were symptoms of hysteria I am unable to say, beyond that there were no signs whatever of hysteria.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. I think she was rather an emotional patient—that is not the same thing as hysteria—a patient may be emotional without any disorder of the nervous system, but she would not be hysterical without it, because that is a disorganization without any disease—she had consumption associated with hysterical symptons; in that shape she was emotional—she said she was unable to walk; I was unable to find the exact cause of that—it was not my view that if she tried to walk she could—I had not seen her walk, therefore I had not an opportunity of forming such an opinion—I could not discover any symptoms to satisfy me why she could not walk—hysterical symptoms are not generally associated with tubercular disease of the brain—hysteria is a disorder of the nervous system without any organic change—if you have tubercular disease you have organic change—it is a disease which comes on very insidiously; there might not be any rise of temperature at all except there is inflammation; headache might be a symptom of it, if enduring for some time; nausea and sickness might be symptoms of it, and inability to use the limbs and dragging of the leg, but that depends upon what part of the brain is affected—inability to control the evacuations is never a sympton until a late stage of the disease, then the disease would not exactly be tubercular—it might be from the presence of a tumour in the brain—I never directed my attention to ascertain whether this woman had tubercular disease of the brain; there was nothing to shew me that she had any disease of the sort—the symptoms just named did not indicate to my mind that tubercular disease was there; they did not indicate hysteria as far as I was aware—when I first saw her she had no rise of temperature—I tested it; I believe there was a loss of motion in one of the legs, but I never saw her walk—I did not hear that there was loss of motion in one of the legs; I knew there was pain in the leg; we tested her before the bath and she moved her leg perfectly—I did not tell the nurse that she would not try to move her leg; believe I said something like it, but that was not exactly what I said—this loss of power in the leg I was first acquainted with after the bath, not before—I believed there was a certain amount of reality in it, but I thought there was an exaggerated loss of power—inflammatory symptoms had set up when I sent in this report to the treasurer—I am alluding to the Saturday morning, the 10th—the evening temperature then was 101.6, that is a condition of inflammation; 99.2 is above the normal temperature—it may indicate inflammation or not, but you would have to compare something—you can have a temperature of 100 without inflammation, or 101—this was not the temperature of a day or hour, so it was the temperatures of disease—these temperatures told me that there was inflammation; that I am positive about—it does not exactly follow that in tubercular meningitis the woman would not be able to use her limbs—I believe there are cases on record were persons have recovered from tubercular meningitis; I have never seen one—it generally closes in about a fortnight—I have not had much experience in tubercular disease—I have not seen a case in which there have been yellow tubercles only—I have seen it in the lungs, not in the brain—I have seen grey tubercles in the brain, but never yellow that I am aware of.

Re-examined. The report that I made to the treasurer of the hospital was on Saturday, after the bath was given, and he investigated the report

about the bruises after what I said to him—I remained with the house physician until the death took place—I reside there and the nurses fetch me if I am required, if there is any material change in a patient.

DR. FREDERICK AKBAR MAHOMED . I am a physician—I live at 12, st. Thomas Street, in the Borough—I am medical registrar of Guy's Hospital; I knew the patient Louisa Morgan—I saw her many times before Monday the 5th July; I saw her first a day or two after she entered the hospital—I saw her on Saturday the 3rd not on the 4th—I saw heron the 5th after the bath, about 12 o'clock in the day—I noticed a very great change in her, a complete change—I made this memorandum upon this clinical report, when it was returned to my hand after her death—at 12 o'clock on the 5th she was in a very alarming condition, so much so that on entering the ward I made an exclamation of great surprise; I thought when I first saw her she was dying—she was then cold, dusky, collapsed, and almost unconscious; I endeavoured to make her speak, but finding that she seemed to take no notice whatever, I concluded that she was unconscious and left her—I had no medical charge of her; I saw her the next day—she had rallied somewhat, but still appeared under the influence of a great shock—that would be about 1 o'clock probably; I examined her more carefully then, for Mr. Howell was in the ward and asked me to look at her with him—I then looked for bruises; I saw some—after that I saw her nearly every day—she never completely recovered from the great shock which she received on the Monday; I never saw her sitting up and talking afterwards, she was completely prostrate—I saw no hysteria in her; I was present at the post-mortem examination—I agree with Dr. Pavy as to the cause of death.

Cross-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER. I have heard Dr. Pavy's evidence; I think I agree with him entirely; I would like to make one addition, that I thought that the signs of pain in the leg, headache, sickness, and the slight rise of temperature, which were recorded in the report soon after her admission, were fully accounted for by a suppurating cyst in her pelvis—they were utterly unlike the symptoms we find in tubercular disease—I did not discover, the cyst till the post-mortem examination; when I noticed the symptoms I did not in the least know of the cyst—it did not occur to me they might be produced by brain mischief—I thought there was something behind, more than mischief in the longs, which I could not find out, but I did not give any opinion; the lung disease was very slight indeed—I thought that would not account for her generally bad health; I thought there was greater debility—I thought there was something more than lung disease, long before she had the bath—I did not see any hysterical symptoms; I was told in the ward by one of the clinical clerks that she seemed to be hysterical—that was after her bath, and before also; he said she was nervous—he did not tell me that the physician said she should be induced to exert herself—it would be better for her to be induced to exert herself if she was hysterical, if there was nothing more; in my experience, I have had a considerable number of cases of yellow tubercle—they gives rise to no symptoms, nor to rise of temperature, I have never seen it do so—it might give rise to headache, sickness, inability to use the limbs, dragging of the leg, or inability to control evacuation; if I may explain I would say these were present in a marked degree, to such a degree that my attention would be immediately directed to the brain—her not being able

to control her evacuations would be easily explained by the state of her pelvis, it would also be explained by the presence of tubercular disease if she was in the last stage of tubercular meningitis—yellow tubercule pressing on the brain would produce partial paralysis in some places—it would be very unusual for paralysis to disable a woman from retaining her evacuation; it might do so in a vital part of the brain; I was told she had dirtied the bed that day—I did not consider that a very serious symptom; she soiled the bed afterwards on several occasions—she was afterwards in a state of collapse and shock, and it was impossible to remove her; I am resident in the hospital—the senior physician is Dr. Habershon—Sir William Gull is consulting physician, I think the senior one—Dr. Owen Rees is another physician, Dr. Pavy is the visiting physician—Sir William Gull does not visit the hospital, he has not any charge over the patients; I believe he has some reputation. Re-examined. The consulting physicians Dr. Gull and Dr. Rees were formerly physicians at the hospital in the position of Dr. Pavy—after a certain time there is a compulsory retirement, and then they are made consulting physicians—they never attend the hospital; it is a post of honour.

DR, PAVY (Re-examined by SIR JOHN HOLKER). I do not know the patients by name; I signed my deposition—it is substantially the same evidence as I have given to-day.

WILLIAM JOHN PAYNE . I am Coroner for the City of London and the Borough of Southwark—I held an inquest on the body of Louisa Morgan, and the prisoner attended—she was represented by Mr. Taylor, a solicitor—she was a good witness in that Court—she was called, and I asked her if she wished to tell the Jury anything, and Mr. Taylor rose and said "Speak fairly and freely all you know about it," upon which she was sworn and examined as a witness—I took down her evidence from her own mouth, she said it was correct, and she signed it.

The Prisoner's Deposition was read as follows:—"I was head nurse of Mary Ward. I attended on the deceased. I am willing to answer all questions. Deceased was in the hospital, I did not know what for. I can read. There was a paper at the head of the bed. I looked at the paper after the bath, and then had no idea it was consumption. I had no idea of it till the Treasurer mentioned it, and asked if I had seen the letter. She had complained of aches and pains, but none of which appeared to trouble her. I found the bed dirty when I went to make it, and I complained to her of making herself and the bed so dirty, and said she must have a bath whilst I changed the bed. She said nothing to that I told the sister that deceased was so dirty that I must put her into a bath whilst I changed the bed. She said very well, and gave directions about the bed, but not about the bath. I then went back and helped deceased out of bed, and with my support helped her to walk along the boards to the bath room. She had her boots on. I did not see Costello there, I did not say to Costello that deceased was very dirty. I walked by her side and had my arm round her back, and supported her. I may have taken hold of her left arm. I did not drag her along, certainly not She showed an inclination to slip on to the ground. I thought her object was to be carried, but she could walk, and I thought it unnecessary. I took her into the bath-room. There was no water in the bath. I sat her on the side of

the bath, and when I had undressed her I lifted up her legs and twisted them over into the bath. There was no water in the bath when I put her into it I then took her under her arms and lowered her into the bath. I then turned on the hot water. I think I turned hot and cold together. There was not more than 6 inches of water in the bath altogether. I then left her to wash herself and, went to make her bed. She only complained of one leg being stiff. I can't say how long I was away. I came back once or twice. Once I found her clinging to the side with her head rather to the water. I turned the water off to get her into a sitting position again, and turned it on again, and she called out suddenly, and I concluded that it was too hot, and turned it off again. She was in the bath altogether from about a quarter to 9 o'clock, when I fetched her, and before 10 o'clock when I got her back. Taking her there took some time. I helped her out of the bath. Costello came to me once and said deceased was so cold in the bath. I said I had been to her and found her shaking, but I felt her back, and she was perfectly warm. I may have said something, of the sort that she was so obstinate I was determined not to help her. She could not get out of the bath alone. I told her to rest in the chair and then walk back, and not make herself a laughingstock to the ward. If she would help herself I would help her. I left her wapped up in the chair for 20 minutes. She then started walking very fairly with my arm round, her. going along she did not take hold of the wall. She did not drag one leg till a gentleman came forward. I put my foot to catch her leg from slipping sideways. I did not put my knee to push her on. She did not speak. I then put her into bed. I did not drag her along, of course not; I had my arm to her back all the way."

By the JURY. "I have been nurse in the hospital five months. The Treasurer told me that it was a want of judgment and dismissed me. I was in a cottage hospital. I doubt if she was actually in the bath more than half an hour. I had walked the deceased across the ward the day before."

The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.

SIR WILLIAM GULL . I am a physician, carrying on my practice in Brook Street, London—I am the Senior Consulting Physician of Guy's Hospital—I have made myself acquainted with the details of this case, and have perused the clinical report very accurately—I cannot say that I have also perused the evidence of the medical men called before the Coroner—I am not acquainted with the evidence of my colleagues—I have perused the clinical report—tubercular disease of the brain occurs in two forms: when it forms slowly it is yellow, and frequently in masses; when it forms more quickly it is disseminated, scattered, and is more or less transparent—I should describe the latter condition as the grey tubercle—yellow tubercle is of common occurrence—the course of the disease is insidious, and attended with equivocal symptoms—the symptoms are headache; occasional sickness, or not; sometimes slight rise of temperature, but nothing much; 100° or 100.5° or 99° are about the temperature of the deposit of yellow tubercle, and sometimes a depression of temperature—the symptoms are equivocal, but they have a dreadful significance to the experienced physician, although they may seem trifling to bystanders—the natural course for the yellow tubercle is into inflammatory mischief of the brain itself, or its membranes—it is an invariably fatal malady—the course of the malady

is uncertain, except in its closing stages, which may vary from a few days to a week or two—that is after the inflammation has set in—when I say "a week or two," I do not mean literally a week or two; I mean indefinitely one or two—I think it is not strictly governed by time—the yellow tubercle may exist in a latent form for a long time; and the grey tubercle for days, probably a fortnight or more; not before the inflammatory mischief, with the inflammatory mischief—in the case of yellow tubercle you would be guided by the symptoms of the patient as to when it was first formed—I doubt whether a patient would live six weeks with the yellow tubercle without symptoms—loss of power in the limbs would be a symptom of brain mischief—the inability to control the motions would be a striking symptom of brain mischief—it is a brain symptom; it does not occur in hysteria; never, I think—I do not know hysteria as associated with tubercular disease—I have the clinical report before me—assuming that this woman, when she came into the hospital, two days after was complaining or suffering from nausea, from sickness, and that for some time she suffered continuously from headache, and her temperature was from 100.4° to something slightly over that, and sometimes something slightly under it; assuming also that she had lost power in her limbs, that she had been unable to stand when she got up to dress, and that she had inability to control her her evacuations, then I say she had brain disease; whether tubercular or not would depend.—Q. But in your view should a skilful physician have known that brain disease existed?—A. There I must be careful—there is no doubt great difficulty in recognising brain disease at that stage—there is no doubt it is one of the most difficult parts of medical practice, but I cannot doubt that suspicion should have existed—there is great difficulty in determining with any degree of certainty, perhaps only suspicion—supposing this woman was suffering from brain disease on the 5th July, which rendered her incapable of using her limbs, in my opinion the administration of the bath would be most improper—I should say if there was the presence of yellow tubercle in the brain an ordinary bath might be used for washing purposes, but it would require immense care not to exhaust the patient or tire her—the skin or flesh of a woman who has been in bed and suffering for some time is easily discoloured, in strumous people, and this woman was—the attempt to lift herself from the bath might have produced discolouration—I do not think that the fact of the woman being put in the bath and kept there for some time would itself produce or give rise to the tubercle; if so, we should have tubercles all over the community every day—I very much doubt whether death would be accelerated by this treatment—the course of the malady is continuous and universally fatal—the bath did not produce any injury to the head, which is the chief seat of the malady—the dragging of the limbs would not increase inflammation of the brain, though in this case it was much to be deplored dragging the poor thing to the bath; but I doubt of its doing anything to the brain itself—it would subject her to dreadful suffering, I should think, as far as she was conscious—such people are not so alive as people who are well, I mean alive to suffering, not perfectly conscious—supposing the excitement or the shock of the bath had caused inflammation to set in, I should have expected to find an alteration in temperature; there was, however, no rise in temperature for two days after the bath, at least as appears from this report—four days after the bath there is no more rise in the temperature than half a degree—that does

not lead me to the conclusion that the bath did not cause anything; it had not much to do with it—then, again, the bath could not in the nature of the case do it—you might batter a person about the head, and set up inflammation of the brain; but taking a bath would not, for remember this woman had not active disease in the lung—the evidence shows that the disease in the lung was quite latent, inactive—the yellow tubercle presses on the brain, but the transparent tubercle does not much—if the bath had been cold I do not think it would have caused inflammation of the brain—we put ice to the head in inflammation of the brain to check it.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. We do not put ice to the feet and body to drive the blood to the head; we do not drive the blood to the head at all; we put it to the head—supposing this woman's head was not in the cold, but her body and legs in the cold, and she was kept for half an hour or more shivering in the cold, that would have a tendency to interfere with the circulation, but will you tell me what cold you mean?—this woman had brain disease, and they are given to shivering—supposing I found that she did not shiver at all till she had the bath, and that she did shiver afterwards, even that would not be a fair inference that the cold caused the shivering and not disease of the brain—it might be the first shivering—this shivering might fairly be considered the first symptom of brain disease—I mean it might be a nervous shivering—it might have been the first shivering of brain disease—a sense of cold often goes with real heat—with great care a person may have a bath and be washed, with disease of the brain, without doing any serious injury—I should think with brain disease the woman ought not to be put into a chair, but I should think it might be done without any injurious effects—I should not do it—it is not possible to tell when tubercle commences—you may suspect from the symptoms—I will not say that often suspicion is very inaccurate—you judge of the tubercular commencement from the symptoms—the symptoms are equivocal—they are uncertain—we cannot tell with any degree of certainty; we only suspect—the clinical report is a report made by the clinical clerk, who is a student—I sent for it when I read the report of the Coroner's inquest—I sent to the house, not to the Treasurer of the hospital, to Doctor Steele—I read the report in the paper—I had then two reports, the physician's report, which he said was singularly accurate, and this report—you cannot tell positively how long the yellow tubercle existed before the inflammatory symptoms set in; you can only suspect from the symptoms, sickness and headache.

By the COURT. It was in the post-mortem examination I found that there had been tubercular inflammation of the brain, and if I could go back and have a record of the symptoms attending the patient during her lifetime for six weeks or two months, and obtain an accurate account of the symptoms, I then should be able to say, "I put my finger upon that day"—perhaps not that day, but that time—you find one symptom one day, and that joined with something else the next, and I should say that at that time the mischief was commencing—until the acute symptoms show themselves you cannot say with certainty there are tubercles—when on the post-mortem examination it was discovered that yellow tubercles existed during lifetime on the brain, and in that way caused death, then you might trace back and get the origin of it.

By MR. POLAND. You cannot trace back to any particular time with

great accuracy—the common time after the inflammatory grey tubercles set in till death followed would be about fourteen days—they remain quiescent; I will not say for a long time; we have no evidence of a long time—the best judge of the state of the patient ought to be the physician who sees the patient from day to day—a person who knows the case from the commencement at the hospital, and sees it from time to time, and watches it, and attends to it as the physician, no doubt ought to be the best judge of the state of the patient—his eye can descry the difference in the patient on the one day between what is done in that case, and what is alleged afterwards—in this case I should certainly put my judgment against the judgment of the physician who attended the case from the commencement; and I will tell you the ground of it; upon the students' report I would put my opinion against that of Dr. Pavy—the physician governs the students' report—his duty is to see it—I am not assuming that it is the same as if it was made by the physician himself; but I was a physician of Guy's for 20 years and my clinical reports were my own reports—I always dictated the report myself.

Re-examined. In this case I put my judgment against that of the physician who attended to the case; because, when I read the report, I found there was headache, nausea, sickness, and rise of temperature, and all the signs of brain disease, and she dies with grey and yellow tubercles of the brain, and I know that these yellow tubercles would not be set up in fourteen days; I did not receive a report from the physician himself from the Coroner's inquest, which the physician said was singularly accurate—I did not find any symptom of hysteria—hysteria was said by the late Sir Benjamin Brodie to be a paralysis of the will, and the duty is to urge and rouse the patient—supposing a woman is suffering from hysteria, or there is reason to believe it, and she thought she could not walk, when in truth she could, trying to get her to exert herself would be the right thing to do—it would be the best thing to do; the late Dr. Jeffe, of Leamington, who had great reputation in cases of hysteria, used to treat it in this way, by taking the girls in his carriage a mile or two from home, and, then turning them out and making them walk home—that was proper treatment.

BLANCHE ELIZABETH TOPHAM . I am a nurse at Guy's Hospital—at the time the deceased was in the hospital I was night nurse of the ward of which the defendant was day nurse—I had charge of the bed in which the deceased was—previous to the 5th July, she complained of pain in her right leg—I noticed nothing more particularly—from the way in which she behaved, I did not think that her complaint was quite genuine as to the pain in her leg—I do not think she herself gave as much assistance; as she might—I did not have any special instructions from the nurse or from the physicians with reference to this case—I recollect, on the 5th of July, the deceased being taken to have her bath—I saw the prisoner take her part of the way along the ward—she had hold of her under the arms: her right arm round the patient's back, taking her to the bath, and hold the left arm with her left hand; she did not drag her at all—she was not at all rough; she used no unnecessary force.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. She did not seem to me to be very weak; the right leg was weak—I should have taken her to the bath in the wheeled chair, and wheeled her to the bath—I would have put the water into the bath first before I took her there, and tried it with my hand to see

if it was a proper temperature, and then have put her into the bath—I would have assisted her out again if I thought she was not able, and dried her, put her in the chair and wheeled her back again; that is the way I would have done it—I have said that I would not like to have been taken to the bath in the way that No. 2 was.

Re-examined. I think it was rather far for her to walk—she did not walk alone, she was assisted—if I had been told it was necessary for the patient to exert herself, and been strong enough, I would have assisted her—it is not always usual when the patient is taken out of the bath to let her sit a while in the bath-room—if the patient is weak and not very well able to walk, she might sit for a few moments to rest—Ingle is a strongish woman, I think, from what I know.

CHARLOTTE DISTIN . I am a training none attached to the Mary Ward—I have been there since the 24th of May—I remember the morning when the deceased was taken to the bath; it was from about half past 8 to quarter far 9 o'clock—at the request of Ingle I assisted her in taking the woman; I began to assist at the very end of the ward—I went to her right side and helped Ingle with her till we got her to the door of the bath-room; there are some tables, we went round the side part of the way and then crossed—I did not drag her, or use violence to her—Ingle was supporting her with her right arm round the patient's back; I could not say how her left hand was—as far as I saw Ingle did not use any violence to her Whatever—with the assistance which I and Ingle gave her, she was able' to Walk—when Ingle and the patient went into the bath-room I left them—I did not see her when she came out—I did not go into the bath-room—Mrs. Morgan, when she was taken to the bath, had on a red flannel, with blankets, and black cloth shoes; she had this blanket on in addition to her nightdress—it was a blanket counterpane, or blanket; it was made of flannel, and the colour of it was red—she had it wrapped round her—I could not say about the nightdress, but the cloth boots I am quite sure of.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. NO. 2 Was not my patient; Ingle was responsible for her; I only assisted—I could not judge whether Mrs. Morgan was very weak; I could not say—she could not walk alone exactly, and Ingle and I had to support her; she could not walk alone—she did drag one leg as if she could not use it—I did not take hold of her by the bed, it was at the entrance of the hall—she had been brought from her own bed, past the patients to the entrance of the hall; that was when I first laid hold of her—how she was brought out from the bed to that place I do not know; all I did was to help her across the hall to the bath-room door—I could not quite say the exact distance—I left her at the door, and saw no more of her; that was from half-past eight to a quarter to nine—I do not remember Ingle telling me that she had dirtied herself—she did not tell me that she had dirtied herself, and that she was going to give her a bath—I had no idea that she was going to leave her in the bath—I would have removed her in the chair, and wheeled her to the bath-room; if she had been my patient I would have taken the chair to the side of the bed, put her into it, and wheeled her carefully to the bath-room, and before doing that I would have gone into the bath-room and prepared the bath, and seen that the water was of a proper temperature to put a patient in.

Re-examined. I have not given patients the bath at that time of the morning; not so early in the morning—I was not told that this woman was

suffering from hysteria—I did not see her being brought down between the beds—I am a training nurse—I had been there from the 24th May.

By the COURT. I should have made the temperature of the bath the ordinary tepid bath, not too hot—I should say a tepid bath would have been the proper sort of bath for a cleansing bath; I am not quite sure about it; I should not have made it hot: a warm bath—I am not nurse enough to know what temperature.

SARAH ANN JOHNSON . I am a nurse at Guy's Hospital—on the 5th July I had occasion to go into the bath-room when the deceased was in the bath—I put her in a better position than that in which she was; I lifted her up—I felt the temperature of the water with my hand; it was luke-warm.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. This was between nine and ten; I cannot tell nearer than that—I had occasion to take the stretcher in; there are things kept in that bath-room—I had to fetch something—when I went in I found Mrs. Morgan alone in the bath; she was not struggling or trying to get out—she had just slipped down a little; she was not trying to get up—she was clinging; she had got her hands on the side of the bath, trying to raise herself, and I helped to raise her—I helped her; I did not get her out; I went away and left her there—I do not know how long she had been left in that bath—the door of the bath-room was shut when I went in—how long she had been left there alone I do not know—there was a fair amount of water in the bath; up to the waist, sitting—she said the bath was cold; she was not shivering—she did not mention getting out; she only said "The bath is cold;" she complained of the cold—I knew that she was Ingle's patient; I went and told Nurse Ingle that she was in the bath, and had slipped a little; I did not tell her that she was complaining of cold—Ingle went immediately into the bath-room; I did not see her bring the patient out—I have been a nurse at this hospital six months—Ingle was busy in her own division at the time.

Re-examined. It was between 9 and 10 o'clock, I should think a few minutes after 9—after I had helped to put the poor woman in a proper position in the bath I went and told Ingle, and Ingle went at once—I did not tell Ingle that the woman complained of the bath being cold; I have heard patients say a bath is cold when it is not—a sick person often feels a bath more cold than one in health—the bath was lukewarm.

By the COURT. It was not her complaining that it was cold which made me feel it to see whether it was so; it was when I raised her, after she said it was cold, after I had raised her.

SUSANNAH CROCKETT (Recalled). By the COURT. The temperature of an ordinary cleanse bath would be about 95°, from 90° to 95°—that is the bath I should give—a tepid bath would be about 90°, but I should not give it so cool as that for a cleansing bath; I should put five more degrees on—a tepid bath would be about 90°—at that time in the morning the hot water cock does not send forth the same amount of heated water that it would do later on; it has to run some time before it gets warm—in course of time it comes warm—I could not say that 90° would be as warm a bath as I could give at that time in the morning; it might vary; it might be tepid sometimes; it might be quite hot some mornings, and other mornings not so hot; it depends—no duty devolves upon me to see whether or not it is of a particular temperature, my other duties quite preclude my doing that—it

is no part of my duty to see whether the water is in a fit state to give a bath to the patient; I am supposed to have nurses who can do it without my watching over them—the engineer has to regulate the hot-water pipes—we do not often give cleanse baths in the morning, except now and then—I do not assume as a matter of fact that the water in the pipes at that time a sufficiently warm—the nurse would say to me, "It is not warm," and of course the bath would not be given—that often happens—if I had given it I would have given it at 95—a tepid bath I would call about 90; by tepid I mean lukewarm—Ingle had 24 beds to attend to—I do not remember if they were pretty well filled at this time, most likely they were—it would not be her duty to attend to the 24 patients entirely; there is also a probationer, a training nurse—she and a training nurse would have 24 beds to do between them—her duty would commence at 8 o'clock, and the work is supposed to be done before the dinner hour—if a patient requires a bath, the nurse could not devote the whole of her time exclusively to one person, she must economise her time as well as she can—under ordinary circumstances I should say 20 minutes was quite sufficient for a person to remain in a cleanse bath—they are not sometimes allowed to remain longer—in the mean time while the patient is in the bath, the nurse ought not to go about her other duties, she ought to stop in the room the whole time, and not leave the bath at all, but take the patient back to her bed—during that 20 minutes of course nothing could be done by the nurse in the ward; nothing is supposed to be—I have not known the nurses sometimes leave the patient—I am supposed to superintend nurses. I cannot watch every nurse at the same moment, so that a nurse may do it on her own responsibility without my knowledge—I remember this particular morning giving the order for the bath—as near as I can tell it was from half-past 8 to 9 o'clock; I know by my own duties—I should be in some part of the ward—I might pass by this bed, No. 2, in the course of an hour or an hour and a half twice or three times; there is no rule, I could not say—as I pass along I cast my eye on each bed—if a patient was absent from a bed for an hour or an hour and a half, that would be a matter that I should observe, but I do not pass by each bed; my duty is such as to keep me out of that division for a time. It was by passing the bed that I saw it was vacant, The Prisoner received a good character for kindness and humanity.

GUILTY . The JURY added; "We think there has been shown negligence on the part of the nurses, and that there should be a better supervision by the medical officers of the hospital."— Three Months' Imprisonment, without hard labour.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18800803-448

448. HENRY GULLIVER (30) , Stealing 240 sacks of oats and one tarpaulin, goods of Alfred Aste.

MESSES. GILL and RAVEN Prosecuted; MR. METCALFE Defended.

JOSEPH EDWARD SHOLL . I am a lighterman in the service of Messrs. Aste—on Thursday, 3rd June, I assisted in loading 917 sacks of oats from the ship Kepler into the barge Henry, in the Surrey Commercial Docks—I tallied some of the sacks—I left the barge between 5 and 6 p.m., leaving the sacks covered over with three tarpaulins—on coming the following morning the barge was missing—I searched for it—when the barge was raised 240 sacks had disappeared—the water came round the barge and I found three auger holes similar to those in the piece of wood produced—we raised the barge,

brought her out of the dock, and afterwards dragged Tier to see if there was any missing stuff to be found—I found one sack at the bottom—one tarpaulin had gone, similar to this one in Court—it bears my master's namesome sacks of oats were shown to be afterwards similar to those we missed, and the sacks bearing my master's name.

Cross-examined. I tallied 300 sacks; there were 917 altogether—we have lost 300—Mr. Edwards, the previous lighterman, tallied the first lot of sacks—he is not here—the barge was left between 11 and 12 hours, during which time no one. was in charge of her—Mr. Aste has between 40 and 50 tarpaulins—ho does lose them; sometimes they are borrowed—I didn't find the sacks in the river—the dock gates would only be open in one tide during the 11 hours.

ALFRED ASTE . I am a corn merchant carrying, on business at Old Barge Wharf, in partnership with John Aste, my brother—in the beginning of June we had a large quantity of oats on board the Kepler, lying in the Surrey Commercial Docks—I gave Sholl certain instructions—on the 3rd or 4th of June he came to me—in. consequence of what he said I went to the docks and looked for the barge—I didn't see it there at first—I made a search for the sacks—the barge was found—when I got down there I saw the holes in her bottom—she had been unloaded—this tarpaulin and this sack are mine; they have my name on them—they are similar to those used on board the Henry.

Cross-examined. We don't lose any tarpaulins that I know of. Re-examined. A sample of oats was shown to me by the police—they were similar to those in the Kepler.

WILLIAM WARLAND . I am a general dealer carrying oh business in Hannah Street, Victoria docks—I have known the prisoner about a twelvemonth—he came to me in June—he had called the end of May—he said "I have been to your house; I have got some oats I want to sell you"—he reckoned about 150 qrs.—he brought me a sample on Saturday, 5th June—we weighed the oats out of the barge—there were 127 qrs.—I didn't suspect anything wrong—I said "I suppose these goods are all right and straightforward"—he said "Certainly they are; I will give you a guarantee of that"—I gave him 100'. for them in gold—he gave me this receipt, and this is the sold note, also signed by him (practiced)—while we were unloading Henry Warland was on and off the wharf—he is my cousin—I sold him the oats by sample for a guinea a quarter—I got 33l. profit—I had to pay the lighterman out of that—they were delivered on my cousin's barge—while they were being unloaded it came on to rain—I said "You will get the hay wet, Harry"—Gulliver said "O you can have my tarpaulin, if you like"—he lent me a tarpaulin like the one in Court—I didn't see any mark on it.

Cross-examined. I had done business once with the prisoner before, very nigh a tweivemonth ago—it was about 20 qrs. of oats—that is all I know about him—I did not ask him to show me the invoice—I have bought plenty of oats of people I have not seen before.

Re-examined. I usually ask, "Are these things straightforward?" HENRY WARLAND. I am cousin of the last witness—I am a corn-dealer of Victoria Dock Road—I purchased a day or two previous to the 5th June some oats from my cousin; I bought them in my office—I paid 21s. a quarter; the amount was 123l. 4s.—I was on the wharf while the oats were being unladed—I had a barge of hay unloading at the same

time, and my tarpaulins were not sufficient to cover it; Gulliver offered to lend me a tarpaulin, the one produced is like it—he left his address and the tarpaulin; I sold the oats in the ordinary course of trade to I daresay 50 of my customers—I sold about 10 quarters to a man named Holloway.

Cross-examined. I sell about 100 quarters a week—I buy to sell at a profit, and I should sell the next day if I could—I would not lend my tarpaulin; I would borrow one—I had three borrowed ones on my haystack at the time.

JANE HEMINGWAY . I am the wife of James John Hemingway, of Narrow Street, Limehouse, barge builder and lighterman—on the evening of 19th May, a young man resembling the prisoner came to ask for a barge; he said it was for Mr. Hilliard—I said, "I do not know Mr. Hilliard, have you his card?" and he gave me a card like the one produced, only dirtier—I said, "Will you have the key now or take her away?"—he said, "I will have the key now"—I gave him the key which was afterwards produced to me at the police-court—the name of the barge was the Jane—the barge remained away 15 days.

Cross-examined. We have 47 barges, all with Christian names, such as Mary, Susan, Jane.

THOMAS HEMINGWAY . I am the son of the last witness—I live with her at 86, Narrow Street, Limehouse; she lets out barges—I remember the prisoner coming for the Jane between 9 and 10 a.m.—he said, "Have yon got a barge named Henry?"—she said, "No," and he took away the Jane—I never saw him bring her back, but I found her back on a Monday—she was clean and swept up when she went away; Sergeant Briers has the key.

Cross-examined. She went up the river; the tide was flowing—I do not know Alderman's Tier; I am positive it was the Jane he took away—I have seen the prisoner before, but I do not know him to speak to him.

CHARLES HALEY . I live at 5, Albert Terrace, Limehouse—in May last I was standing at Broadway Walk, Limehouse, next door to Mr. Hemingway—I saw the barge Jane in the old entrance to the Surrey Commercial Docks; nobody was on her, she was fast to the quay.

GEORGE JONES . I am a granary keeper, at the Surrey Commercial Docks; the books could not be spared, I have a copy—when barges go in or out of the docks they are booked by the master or his assistants—the name of the barge and the name of the owner are taken; in this instance the name was taken—I cannot say whether the barge Jane went in—I have looked through the book—I can find no entry of the Jane going out—the pass produced shows the ship that went out of the dock.

Cross-examined. The name would be given to the master or one of the lighterman upon going out—he could not always see the name on the barge—there is a rice mill in the docks; I do not know whether the barges to and from it require a pass—I do not know the practice with regard to colliers.

ROBERT COLSTON WOODLAND . I am a lighterman at the Surrey Docks—I receive passes from barges going out of the docks—I received this pass on the 4th June, I also enter the particulars of barges leaving the docks in my book—this is a pass for the barge called the Hopeful—this is my writing on the back of it "The Lavender Dock"—upon the production of that paper we allow the barge to pass—she went out between 10 and 11 o'clock at night—there were five others in the lock.

Cross-examined. The pass was shown to me before I let her out—we cannot identify the barge at night time; it would interfere with our duty—there is a rice-mill in the docks—the barges going to it require a pass—they are not our forms—we know nothing about them—colliers require passes when they go out in every case, as far as I know—the cargo is mentioned on the pass—we rely upon the pass being correct.

RICHARD MULHOLLAND . I am a weigher in the Surrey Commercial Docks—there is no other Mulholland in the dock—it is not my writing on the weight-note and receipt produced.

ALFRED ASTE . This weight-note and receipt are signed by the prisoner—I know his writing.

ERNEST DE BRENT . I am a clerk in the employment of the Surrey Commercial Docks—when goods are delivered a certificate of weight is given to the lighterman of the barge, with the numbers of quarters of com, &c.—we retain a duplicate in the office—the lighterman will present the pass at the lock gates on going out—I have to countersign the pass first—the pass produced was brought on 2nd June, and also this weight-note—I countersigned the pass—an alteration has since been made in the name of the barge, the Hope to the Hopeful, and the name of the lighterman is changed to Smith—the date is also altered to 3rd June.

ROBERT JUDKIN . I live at 189, Manchester Road, Cubitt Town—I am a dock labourer—on 10th June I picked up 10 sacks in the river—I got them out and dried them—the name Aste was on them—the police officer fetched them away.

Cross-examined. It was two miles from the Surrey Commercial docks where I picked them up, they were left on shore—the tide was leaving.

ARTHUR WILLIAM HARDY . I am clerk to Messrs. Hilliard and Co., lightermen—my firm did not authorise a barge to be hired from Hemingway—we have not hired one from them since two or three years ago.

FRANK BRIERS (Police Sergeant R). On the 15th June I apprehended the prisoner at Aberfeldy Road—Sergeant Howard and Mr. Warland were with me—I said "I am a police officer, and shall take you into custody for stealing oats, the property of Messrs. Aste and Sons"—he made no answer—I went into the house and found this tarpaulin produced—I asked the prisoner what he had done with the 100l.—he told me to mind my own business—I took him to the station—he said he had the oats from a man named Jeffrys—I asked him who Jeffrys was—he said he had seen him once or twice in the market—I found 2s. on him, and several documents—I said "The name of the barge was the Jane that the oats were taken in" he said "Quite right, it was."

SAMUEL HOWARD . (Thames Polite Sergeant). I accompanied Briers and Mr. Warland to 49, Abergeldy Road—after the prisoner was told the charge I said "Where is the tarpaulin?"—he said "It is here"—I found it in the kitchen—I conveyed it to the police-station—before I did so I examined it in the presence of the prisoner—I said "This is not the cloth I want"—Warland said "No, I can account for that; my cousin hired two tarpaulins, and his man has sent the wrong one back"—upon that I went to the cousin, and he said "I have sent the wrong one back"—I went to his wharf and found the tarpaulin marked "Aste and Son" covered over with a quantity of salt—the one in Court has a number on it.

FRANK BRIERS (Re-examined by MR. METCALFS). I found lighterman's licence upon the premises, issued five years ago, also some invoices from a man named G. Smith, of Wandsworth.

GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18800803-449

449. SAMUEL JOHN HOLMES (32), HENRY JOHN DOVER (53), HENEY LAWRENCE (44), WILLIAM FARRINGTON (41), FREDERICK HISCOCK (39), ALFRED VINCENT (62), EDWARD SIMMONDS (48), and WILLIAM PHLLIPS (33) (, were indicted, together with GEORGE HOLMES and HENRY WHITEHOUSE not in custody), for unlawfully obtaining, and attempting to obtain from divers persons, goods by false pretences, and for conspiracy to defraud.

MR. TALPOURD SLATER, Q.C., with MR. SNAGGB Prosecuted; MESSRS. FULTON and R. LEVY appeared for Holmes; MR. GEOGHBGANW Dover; it as R. S.LYNCH and SAMPSON for Farrington; MR. FILLAN for Vincent and Simmonds.

MATTHEW FOX (Police Inspector, Criminal Investigation Department). I have from time to time received information about 89 and 91, Long Lane, Bermondsey; they were one house, but it has been re-numbered—I applied for a warrant at the beginning of May, which was granted, and executed by two officers, Walsh and Harvey—I was at the station when Holmes was brought in; I saw him searched, and I looked over the papers that were taken from him; these are them. (These were three cheques for 10l. 15s., 9l. 10s., and 6l. 10s., drawn by F. Jackson and Co. in favour of C. J. Holmes, and various other papers.) I went to 91, Long Lane, at 7 o'clock on the evening of 10th May, directly after Holmes was brought in; it was baker's shop, with the name of Holmes outside, and arranged on shelves round the shop inside were 23 empty butter firkins, 20 empty cheese boxes, 14 empty biscuit boxes, and some dummy cheeses arranged carefully on the shelves round the shop, and painted in large letters round the shop were "Choicest dairy provisions, rich old Cheshire and other cheeses, prime mild Wiltshire and other bacons, prime Devon and Dorset butters"—I did not find the smallest particle of butter, cheese, bacon, or anything else; I found some bread, and some flour in small paper bags similar to the bag found in Holmes's pocket—outside, on the lamp, was "Bread, 5s. per quartern," and that was also marked on the window with chalk—there was a bakehouse, and two sacks of flour—I searched the house and brought away a sack full of letters and papers; they consisted of orders for goods, and commission from every part of England respecting flour, provisions, and other articles, and a large number of answers—while I was searching the shop a man brought in a County Court writ, and I found about 40 or 50 County Court summonses; there were judgments amongst them—I found no general business books; there were small account books for credit customers—I Handed the papers I found to Mr. Wontner—on Monday morning, 31st May, I went to Lawrence's premises, 19, Charing Cross; he occupied the first floor back room over the shop, and written on the door was "H. Lawrence and Co., the Accidental and General Arbitration Company'—the room was very scantily furnished—I found there papers and books which I took away, and cards with "H. Lawrence and Co., rectifiers and cordial manufacturers" on them; also a lot of bill-heads of "The Accidental and General

Arbitration Company, 19, Charing Cross, London, all communications to be addressed to the manager, Mr. H. Lawrence"—I found some large bills on coloured paper, on which was printed "The Princess Royal Arabian Tonic, solely imported by H. Lawrence and Co."—there were no business books such as are generally found in an office—I saw the landlord and he made a communication to me—I looked into the books; I did not find a single entry this year; those that were there were for very small amount; the largest was a little over 1l.—I found a mere handful of papers; they are here—I can't recollect whether there were any County Court summonses—I have had charge of several prosecutions of this kind—I remember one against Ruppert, Case, and Grouer, a few sessions back; they were convicted and sentenced to five years' penal servitude.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. It was at 7 p.m. that I went to Holmel's shop; I found bread and flour, but no other articles of provision—there were some small tin boxes; some of them had concentrated essence of meat—I only took away a sample of the flour bags, there were a great many on the premises—I saw his wife at the shop, and a publican, who lives within a few doors—there was a girl serving in the shop, no one else—I said before the magistrate that the shop had the appearance of being well furnished; a casual observer from outside would believe that all the cases and casks were filled, that they were genuine—I have seen some dummy cheeses and things in other shops, but I never saw a whole place so filled—I have known this shop a good many years, but did not know who occupied it; I believe, from my inquiries, Holmes's father kept it for some years.

Cross-examined by Laurence. Your place contained about six chain, a carpet in the middle of the room, and a table—I considered it very shabby—your landlord did not tell me that you had paid 6l. for the furniture—I am not aware that you had a sleeping partner named Boss, of Great George Street, or that you had carried on business at 16, Burton Crescent; I made no inquiry there—I cannot speak of the contents of your books; I only looked at the date of the latest order—I found two letters from you as Holmes.

Re-examined. These are the letters. (These were dated 6th and 10th May)—his landlord told me that he owed him 8/. rent, and he should be glad to get it.

JAMBS WALSH (Police Sergeant M). On Saturday, May 29, I went with Harvey to 52, Manor Place, Walworth—I there found Lawrence and a woman who he represented to be his wife in aback room on the ground floor—I told him I had a warrant for his apprehension for being concerned with Holmes—it was a very small room with a bed in it, a chest of drawers, one or two chairs, and several other little things—what I found on him I handed over to Inspector Fox—next day I went to Hiscock's place, 19, Houghton Road, Peckham; I found him in bed in the back room with his wife—it was a new house; he occupied the downstairs part—I found on him some papers, which I handed to Inspector Fox—before I went to Hiscock's I knew of two persons named Laird and Gear; I had apprehended them months before; I had seen Hiscock in their company the day I arrested them, and followed them all through the City—I have also seen Lawrence in Holmes's company—I arrested Vincent at 217, Hill Street, Walworth, on 14th June; he occupied one room, a front room first floor—I found these papers and 16 pawntickets

on him. (One of time letters was dated from Newgate to His wife about procuring bail; the other was from C. J. Holmes, dated 11th April: "Dear Sir,—If you should have a letter from any one about Farrington let me bow at once")—I found no sign of any business being carried on at Vincent's place.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I am not aware that Vincent was charged with embezzlement by his employer, and released without a stain on his character.

Cross-examined by Lawrence. I don't know how long you had lived at your place—you told me that you believed Holmes to be a substantial man, that you paid three guineas to a solicitor to make special inquiries into Holme's character, and he reported favourably of him—I have seen you at Long Lane with Holmes three or four days before he was arrested, and you shook hands with him and parted—I can't say that I have seen you with any of the at he prisoners.

GEORGE HARVEY (Police Sergeant M). On Saturday evening, 29th May, I was with Sergeant Walsh near the corner of Lower Bland Street, and saw Furington in the street there with several others—I said to him "Mr. Fox wrote to see you at the station about Holmes's case"—he said "I expected I should have been called in it"—I took him into custody and took him to the station—I then went to his house, 52, Great Dover Street, and searched it; I found a lot of papers, which I put together in a bag sad gave to Inspector Fox—Farrington's place was tolerably well furnished; he had not the whole house; he had some lodgers upstairs; it was not a place of business; there was not the least sign of business about the place; it was more than one room—I Went with Walsh to the Cemetery Road, Nunhead, where Dover lives—Walsh went to the front door and hocked repeatedly—I went to the back and saw Dover come out at the back and go down the garden—a uniform man called to him, and he turned back and went into a water-closet—we waited till he came out—I read the warrant to him—he said "I have given Holmes bills of accommodation, but I have never swindled any one"—I searched the house and found a bag full of papers, which I took to the station and gave to Inspector Fox—Dover's house was in a beastly state; it was a four-roomed house—all the windows were out in some places—it was not a house of business—it was in a fearful state; if we walked across the kitchen our feet slipped in human dirt and cats' and dogs' dirt—the stink was enough to suffocate one—I went twice to Lawrence's office, 19, Charing Cross—I have heard Inspector Fox's description of it, and agree with him—I was with Walsh when he took Lawrence into custody at 52, Manor Place—the description he has given of the room is correct.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. It was between 6 and 7 o'clock on sunday morning when I arrested Dover—the house is one of five or six in a row—I did not ascertain that it was his own house—he went over the the house with me and saw me find the papers—there were some children up stairs in the back room; the whole house was in a most filthy condition. Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. I arrested Farrington about 9 o'clock on Saturday evening there were about five others with him—one of them was Mr. Griffith, one of the witnesses for the prosecution—I did not understand Farrington to say that he expected to be called as a witness, but that some one would want to make inquiry of him—I do not know a man named

Skinner—I did not read the papers I found—the wife told me that then was a woman up stairs ill, and she did not want any more fuss made than was necessary.

MATTHEW FOX (Re-examined). Walsh and Harvey handed me certain papers at the police-station, and I handed them all to Mr. Wontner without examining them.

JOSEPH ISEL BIRCH . I have, with Mr. St. John Wontner, attended to this prosecution for the Government—we received from the different witnesses a mass of papers, some of which I now have before me, and which are separately marked—I assisted Mr. Wontner in sorting them, and those we thought not essential to the prosecution we handed back to the police.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. I think Farrington's papers were a small bagful, out of which I selected 13—Farrington's brother applied for some papers; I told him we had no power, the police had them.

Cross-examined by Lawrence. I have here three letter from you to Holmes; there may have been others—you called on Messrs. Wontner—they declined to see you—you wrote a letter to the firm.

Re-examined. It is our custom, after going through the papers, to give back to the police those we think unimportant, and they are then out of our hands—a pawn-ticket was found on Farrington for a pair of trousers, pledged for 6s. by Lawrence—on Holmes was found a bill of exchange, drawn by Farrington and accepted by Holmes and endorsed by Farrington and Lawrence; also a letter from Messrs. Stoneham, millers at Maidstone, addressed to Farrington, stating, "We are in receipt of an application for flour from 0. J. Holmes;" also a letter to Farrington, on the back of which is the name of "R. Simmonds, 24, Oldbridge Square"—amongst Hiscock's papers is a letter from Whitehouse beginning, "Dear Fred."—amongst Dover's papers is a letter from Lawrence to Farrington, and various claims and summonses against Dover, and a number of pawn-tickets.

EDWARD STRANGLEY ELLABY . I am a starch manufacturer at Battersea, and carry on business as Davis and Co.—I received this letter on 13th August, 1879, from C. J. Holmes, asking for our lowest prices—I replied to that letter, and then received one of the 14th of August ordering half a ton, and another on the 15th ordering half a ton of blue and half a ton of white, another for 5 cwt. of white and 5cwt. of blue—I supplied them—they came to 25l. 15s.—we had references given us—Farrington is one, and one I cannot remember—my manager called on Farrington—he did not see him, but we supplied the order—the terms were two months—on the 22nd of October I wrote to Holmes, stating that we had received an anonymous communication reflecting on his reputation, and requesting a cheque for the amount—I got no answer, and never got any money—we had a subsequent order—we did not execute it—this (produced) is a box in which we supplied some of the starch—this is some of our starch—the best quality is 29s.

Cross-examined. We made inquiries as to Holmes, and it thought the answer we received was about him, but I found out afterwards it applied to his father—I did not consider at first there was any criminality in the transaction.

JOSEPH HENRY SAUNDERS . I am an oil and colourman of 75, Southampton Street, Camberwell—on the 25th of August I purchased of Samuel Holmes five hnnredweight of starch at 22s. a hundred weight.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. It is Davis's best quality—the market value is 29s.—the value of the second quality is from 24s. to 25s—a person named Moulsey sold the starch to me—he had tailed on me several times for different things.

STEPHEN HAWTRET . I assist my brother, a tea dealer in Muscovy Court, Tower Hill—he trades with a partner as Hawtrey and Brett—on the 16th of December, 1879, I received this letter, signed C. J. Holmes, 89, Long Lane, Bermondsey, asking for samples of goods—we replied, and I took down some samples myself—on the 17th we received a letter, ordering two and a half casks of one sort, and two halves of another, and stating he would pay on Saturday—they were sent—these are the invoices—the amount was 16l. 9s., inclusive of duty—they were to pay the duty, which they afterwards did—on the 23rd of December I received this letter from 18, Long Lane, containing a further order, amounting to 24l. 5s. 6d.—we paid the duty on that—it came to 14l. 17s.—I applied for payment, and on the 3rd of February received a promissory note for 25l. 6s.—it was net paid we were applied to to renew the bill for a month, but refused—the money has not been, paid—I supposed we were dealing with genuine traders, and on that belief furnished the goods—they paid 4l. on the duty.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. References were given to us, but unfortunately we did not make inquiries—they were mislaid—I do not recollect anything but one address, which was Peckham Rye.

GEORGE EDWIN JENKINSON . I am harness manufacture, of 44, London Wall—I received this letter, dated the 14th of January, from C. J. Holmes; of 89, Long Lane, in consequence of which we supplied three sets of harness to the value of 20l. 10s—we also supplied him with another set—we got a bill at a month for the first three before that—it was not honoured—before the bill arrived at maturity he ordered another set worth 7l. for which he agreed to pay in a few days—he did not call and pay—he called and gave us a fresh bill, which included the amount of the fourth set—that bill was dishonoured—we placed the matter in the hands of our solicitors, but get no money—we supplied the harness believing that he was trading in a legitimate way and required it for his own use.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. Our firm had done business with his father—it was not the usual style of baker's harness, but he might it for that purpose—we supplied it because we had been connected with his father before—I do not know how long we had knows him—I believe he was a Highly respectable man, and had carried on the business some time.

Re-examined. I can not speak from my own knowledge as to when we had supplied goods to the father—we did not know that Holmes was anying on a separate business—we believed it was the same—I have never been to his place.

JOHN GEORGE VENTRIS FIELD JOHNSON . I carry on business as Johnson and Co., millers, at Wolverton, Bucks—on the 16th of March last I received this letter from C. J. Holmes, wholesale and retail baker, dairyman, grocer, etc., 91, Long Lane, Bermondsey, established 20 years (stating: "I beg to hand you parties that may be security for me for the amount of 50l" (at the back were the names of Dover Brothers, builders and contractors, Station Road Nunhead, and W. Lawrence, 19, Charing Cross., I applied to both those references—I received these replies from Lawrence and Dover-if I afterwards received this letter of the 23rd of March from Lawrence; but we

did not supply the goods—we communicated with the police immediately on receiving the first letter.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I only received one letter from Dover—I was suspicious from the tone of the first letter from Holmes.

HENRY BLAKE SMART . I am cashier to Messrs. Hadley, millers, of Queen Victoria Street—on the 20th September I received a communication, signed C. J. Holmes, baker, and asking for lowest prices of households—I sent the prices, and got another letter from him stating that he would take 10 or 12 sacks on the usual trade terms—I subsequently received this communication from Dover Brothers, on the 20th January, 1880: "Dover Brothers, railway sewage and general contractors. Gentlemen,—We have a wish to assist a young man, by name C. J, Holmes, 91, Long Lane, Bermondsey, baker, who wishes to open an account with some good miller, to supply from 10 to 15 sacks of four per week payable every Monday morning; we will become surety for him to the amount of 50l., to stand good from the date of the first delivery. If you will send us guarantee, we will sign and return at once"—upon that I wrote to Dover Brothers for a reference as to themselves and got a satisfactory one—I ultimately got from them this guarantee on the 4th February, which we agreed to take—we then delivered 10 sacks upon that guarantee, to the amount of 21l. odd, and on the 17th February we received from Dover a promissory note for 21l. 5s. at 2 months—we after wards supplied some flour amounting to 41l. 10s. on the 13th February—we did not send anything on the promissory note—we only delivered it upon Dover's guarantee—we returned the promissory note, refusing to deliver any flour upon it, because that was an order from Dovers themselves—they had opened a shanty—we refused the order, because it was out of our way of business—Holmes's debt of 41l. is still due—we were not paid by Holmes or Dover, and we took proceedings against both, but got nothing—the first 10 sacks were paid for—I do not know whether we obtained judgment, or whether this prosecution stopped it—this letter of the 4th of March we wrote to Dover asking for a cheque of 41l., as we had not obtained payment from Holmes—we got no answer.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. Ten sacks were supplied, for which we were paid, and 20 for which we were not paid, and for those we sued—I knew that Holmes's father carried on business for 16 or 20 years—I cannot say that I knew Holmes.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I do not know how long the father has been dead—this guarantee is for 50l.—we had the name of Ashton as a reference for Dover—we wrote to him; I believe he is a surveyor at Kingston—I did not enquire whether Dover had a large contract at Thornton Heath, and that he wanted flour for his workmen—I think Ashton mentioned in his letter that the contract was at Kingston—this is the letter—I never saw Dover till he was at the police-court—I did not sue Dover and Holmes on the promissory note—it was on the guarantee; I am sure of that—it did not go to trial—we instructed Mr. Gaisford, of the Temple, and a writ was taken out by him.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. I stated at the police-court that Farrington some years ago got credit from us, representing that he was a contractor for Horsemonger Lane Gaol, and that we had to sue him and obtain judgment, which was unsatisfied—it is still an unsatisfied claim—I

have been with Messrs. Hadley 16 years—I did not know Of Farrington being in their employ—I heard that he was—I believe that he left with a good character and got another situation—I believe he did obtain a contract for Horsemonger Lane Gaol, and he came and saw one of the partners—I think an arrangement was made, and he was to pay when he got the money from the gaol—I think we got a cheque from the gaol for 35l—we supplied 46 lots of flour, I believe—according to our books Farrington now owes us 9l.—I am speaking from memory of a thing that happened years ago.

Re-examined. I have not found anything out about Mr. Ashton—we relied upon his letter, and upon that gave credit to both these people.

CHARLES HENRY BINGHAM . I live at Sheffield—in April last I advertised a cob for sale; I received this letter from C. J. Holmes, dated 12th August 1880, asking the lowest price I would take for the cob, and if I would take a bill at one month with security—I answered that and on the 14th received this, offering 30l. and giving as the parties who would back the bill "Henry Lawrence, 19, Charing Cross, and W. Farrington, 52, Great Dover Street"—I received a further letter on 17th, and in the result I declined to let the cob go without the money.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I had not sufficient confidence in the transaction to part with my cob.

JOHN LIBBY . I live at Cambourne, Cornwall—I advertise poultry, butter and eggs for sale—on 8th March last I received this letter and card from C. J. Holmes, asking for price-list, which I sent, and asked cash or banker's reference—on 5th April I received as reference Lawrence and Oris Jones, 8, Bedford Square,. Commercial Road—I wrote to Lawrence and received this reply of 9th April; I was not satisfied and did not send the goods.

WILLIAM SCOTSON . I am cashier to Messrs. Fairclough & Sons, millers, at Warrington—on 7th April, 1880, I received this letter from C. J. Holmes, asking for samples and prices which I sent, and received references to Dover and Lawrence—I received other letters, made inquiries, and declined the order.

RICHARD SMITH . I am a miller, at Stone, Staffordshire—on 10th January, 1880, I received this letter from C. J. Holmes asking for samples—I replied and on 14th January received references to Farrington and Hiscock, of 24, Nigel Road, Peckham Bye—I applied to Farrington and received this answer—I then received other letters from Holmes referring to Dover Brothers, and Rev. Mr. Haynes, of Houghton, Stone—I found no such persons or place—I did not supply anything.

FRANCIS ALWYN TALLANT . I am a miller, at Midhurst—in August last year, George Holmes gave orders for flour—we had several transactions with him last year which were duly paid for—in the early part of the present year he increased his orders—altogether after August he did business with me and paid me money to the amount of 250l. or 400l. a month—he is still on my books to that amount, but he reduced it and then increased it again to 450l.—he sent me a bill for 100l. and another for 74l. 17s. 6d.; I sent them up to a private inquiry office for collection—they have not been returned, I have never got the money. (Several letters were read from George Holmes, baker and confectioner, from 23, North Cross Road, East Dulwich, to the witness containing orders for flour; also one of 14th April 1880, from 24, Nigel Street, Peckham Rye, enclosing cheque

for 50l., a bill for 4l. 17l. 6d., and one of 20th April as to Farrington's respectability.)

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. I have never supplied Harrington with any goods, he has never applied to me for any—I have never had any communication from him.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I never saw Hiscock; I heard nothing of him except that his name was on the back of one of the bills.

By the COURT. My transactions with George Holmes extended over about 10 months ending in April—he kept on paying up to 17th April, all his cheques were honoured but the last.

THOMAS HENRY LEWIS . I am a coachbuilder, of 122; Gloucester Road, Regent's Park—in March last I received these several letters from C. J. Holmes with reference to the purchase of a cart—he offered bilk and referred to Lawrence and Dover Brothers; I made inquiry through my clerk and was not satisfied and did not supply anything.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. In one letter he offered 5l. down—we do business on the letting system—I believe I offered him a van on the-letting system, but I would not accept his bills.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I wrote two or three letters to Dover, but got no reply.

Cross-examined by Lawrence. You gave Holmes a very good character but I was not satisfied with my clerk's report; I sent him Long Lane—I don't know whether the suggestion came from you.

RORERT MUNRO . I am manager to the Consumers' Tea Association, Tower Hill—on 30th December, I received this letter from C. J. Holmes, giving an order for four half chests and two boxes of tea, to the value of between 20l. and 30l., and another letter, not dated, referring to Farington and Hiscock; I communicated with both—I received a favourable reply from Farrington, but none from Hiscock—rafter inquiries, I declined to supply anything—I took a view of Holmes's place and Famngton's and did not like the look of them.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I thought. Holmes's place did not look like a place that such an order would come from; it did not look bond fide.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. My inquiry of Farrington was whether Holmes was good for 50l.—the order was for 25l.

HENRY BEVERIDGE . I am a tea importer, of 158, Leadenhall Street—on January this year, I advertised for a traveller and engaged Hiscock; he referred me to George Holmes, 22, North Cross Road, East Dulwich—he gave his own address as 24, Nigel Road, Peckham Rye—during the time he was my traveller, he introduced about 600 orders from customers—I think I have received payment from three or four—George Holmes was one of those customers—I have received about 15l. altogether; I (supplied George Holmes to about 50l., he paid about 5l.—Hiscock introduced an order from Henry Whitehouse, of Old Kent Road; he was supplied with five half chests of tea, amounting to 26l. or 27l.—he did not pay for them—he also introduced orders from E. Williams, the Little Wonder, High Street, Leyton, Essex—after the amount became due, I went to Leyton, but could find no such shop occupied by Williams—I treated these as genuine trade orders—I received, through Hiscock, an order from Fleming, 79, Ansdell Road, Nunhead—I received such a satisfactory reference of

Hiscock from Mr. Buxton, and I said I would trust to his honour in selling only to respectable men, and if he got an order from any man he did not know, if he would bring me the references I would make inquiry—he was paid by commission—the result of his employment is that I am out of pocket about 600l.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. I have not had complaints about the quality of my tea; only one, that it was a little dusty, and I agreed to make a small reduction—I have gone to the customers and could not find a great number of them; the shops were shut—I have very little hope of recovering my money; I did not make inquiry before executing the orders—I trusted to Hiscock.

GEORGE. WALTER DASH . I am with Messrs. Clark Brothers, millers, of Chalford, near Stroud—on 24th January last, I received a letter from G. J. Holmes, ordering flower, and giving as references Dover, Fanington and Hiscock—we did not execute the order, it did not commend itself to our judgment; we did not think it worth while to apply to, the references.

GEORGE WALTER BLOW . I am agent for Messrs. Croskill and Sons, cart manufacturers, of Beverley—I carry on a business at 11, Queen Victoria Street, City—in December last Hiscock called on me in company with George Holmes—they asked me the price of a cart—I told them 30 guineas—they gave me a verbal order—Holmes gave me a reference to Farrington, 52, Great Dover Street—Hiscock was present—they asked my terms; I told them cash in a month—Holmes was the chief speaker—Holmes was to be the buyer; he wanted the cart—I wrote to Farrington and received this reply: "December 23, 1879. Gentlemen—I have known and done business with Mr. Holmes, of East Dulwich, for some years, and should think he was safe for what you name"—according to pur usual practice I had asked for reference to double the amount the cart would come to, 50l.—on. the receipt of that letter I delivered the cart—they afterwards both came together again, I think in May, and gave a further order for two vans from George Holmes, in Hiscock's presence; he heard the order given—the prices were to be 52l. 10s. and 63l. 10s.—I was paid for the cart just about the time the second order was given—I delivered the two vans—I told Holmes that I did not care to trust him quite so much, as 116l. and shortly after that he paid me 20l.; I have not received any more—Hiscock asked me for a commission for introducing Holmes, he said it was a usual thing—I said I would enquire into the matter, and asked his name, as I did not know who he was—he said "Dickinson"—I asked his address—he said "a letter addressed to Holmes will find me at any time"—I did this as an ordinary trade business.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. It was about 20th December that I wrote to Farrington—it was not about the prisoner Holmes, but George Holmes, of Dulwich—I did not know him before—I did not write again to Farrington before I supplied the two vans—I stopped the delivery of the second van because I found that George Holmes had left his place, but he came and said he had sold it for 200l. and I let him have the van—I made no further "enquiry of Farrington.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. Hiscock did not introduce Holmes, they both came together—they asked me to stand something to drink after the bargain, and I took them to the Cannon Street Hotel—it was chiefly

Farrington's reference that induced me to part with the first cart, and I parted with the second partly because I was paid for the first, and believed he was carrying on a legimate business.

Re-examined. Ninety-six pound is still owing—about the time these payments became due Samuel Holmes was in custody—I wrote two or three letters to George Holmes, at 24, Nigel Road, the address he gave me, and he wrote to say he would call and see me, but he did not; and just about that time I had a letter from Messrs. Wontner saying the case was in their hands, and I took no further steps—I have traced my 52l. van to the possession of Brierly, a carman in Btermondsey—I have not been able to trace the other.

EDWIN DOLLING . I am a carman in Staple Street, Borough—I bought a van of George Holmes, for 40l. 16l., at the beginning of April, and changed it with Brierly.

THOMAS EASTGATE . I am a member of the firm of Eastgate and Co., 12, Three Crown Square, tea merchants—Hiscock became my traveller from April, 1879, unil November—he introduced from 120 to 150 orders, among them George Holmes, for a half-chest of tea, at 6l. or 8l.—I made inquiries and did not execute it—the total amount of the orders Hiscock introduced was about 500l. or 600l.—I executed about 120—about 20 of them paid, to the extent of 50l. to 70l.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. Hiscock did not object to my making inquiries about Holmes, he said we were rather too particular in oar inquiries—I hope to be able to get some of the money that is due—we refused many of the orders, and then, upon Hiscock's representations, we were induced to send the goods.

AUGUSTUS WILLIAM PARKER . I am an insurance broker, of Lombard Street—in April last Samuel Holmes applied for a loan of £300—he was to find three sureties and insure his life in the General for double the amount—his references were Dover, Lawrence, and Farrington—inquiries were made, and the loan was refused—Holmes was introduced by a person named Manning, of 2, Albert Terrace, St. Ann's Road, Stamford Hill, and Manning was introduced by Mr. Lee, of Russell Villas, Seven Sisters Road.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOHEGAN. Dover came to my office—he did not object to become surety; he came with Holmes to know if the loan would be granted—I received two guineas as inquiry fee.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. I never saw Farrington; a form was sent to him, and he agreed to become security.

WILLIAM JOHN GRIFFITH . I am a merchant, of 86, Fenchurch Street—I know Farrington, Lawrence, and Samuel and George Holmes—I first knew Farrington about the end of February, as a flour factor, seeing him in the Corn Market—I had some flour from Hamburgh, and thought he would be able to sell it—I heard that he bore a very good character on the market, and I made inquiries—he gave me an order for 10 sacks of flour some time in March—it amounted to 23l. 10s.—he gave me a bill for that amount, and that was met—he gave me a further order for the same amount, for which he gave me a bill at a month; that was dishonoured—I have never received the money for that, or for a third order for pea-meal (10l. 12s.), which he said he would pay within a week—George Holmes came to my office about 15th March and gave an order for 30 sacks of flour, amounting to 69l. 15s.—he paid half cash and half in a bill, which was met—he then

gave a further order for 20 sacks, amounting to 45l. 11s., and gave me a 14 days' bill, dated 17th April; that was not met—while that bill was running be ordered 50 sacks of Scotch flour, which came to 60l.—for that he gave me a cheque for 30l., which was honoured, and a bill for 30l., dated April 19th, which was dishonoured—before supplying the Scotch floor Lawrence wrote, on 23rd March, asking for samples and prices of foreign flour—up to that time I knew of no connection between Farrington, Holmes, and Lawrence—I sent him a sample, and received a letter, of 24th March, stating he would submit the same to his friends and let me know the result—on 14th April I received this letter from H. Lawrence and Co., stating that a friend of theirs, a baker at the West-end, would take 15 sacks of flour, and next day I received this letter, offering a two months' bill, but I did not supply the flour—I afterwards supplied Samuel Holmes with Scotch flour to the amount of 58l. 15a. on his own introduction—he came to me and said it was through Farrington—he gave me two bills, which were not met—I have never got any of the money—I was dealing on the footing of an ordinary trade transaction.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I trusted Holmes on Lawrence's recommendation—I went to Long Lane and saw the shop—it had the appearance of a large business; there was a very large quantity of bread, and I think some milk—he was in custody when the bills were due.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. Before trusting Farrington I made inquiries of Seth Taylor and others; in consequence of those inquiries I called on him and he gave me an order—he was not introduced to me by my of the prisoners, and he did not directly introduce any of them to me; Holmes said he knew me through Farrington; I call that an introduction—Farrington came in while George Holmes was there, and seeing him, he said, "what a fool I was to give him your name"—and Holmes said to Farrington, "I will wait outside till you transact your business"—I had not made any inquiry of Farrington about George Holmes; I asked Lawrence what he knew about Holmes—I had heard that there was a gang of them trading as a long firm; I told Lawrence that—Lawrence told me that Farrington was a poor man, and could not be engaged in big transactions; that was after I had supplied him—this all took place about a week or so before the affair came on at Southwark Police-court—I can't say the dates—Farrington kept out of the way—I called at his residence several times; I saw him one Saturday evening, and the detectives took him while I was talking to him—he had told me that he could not carry on his trade unless he got the usual monthly credit he offered to pay, and said he had the money in his pocket, but I did not see it, or I would have grabbed it—I saw his brother; I don't think I asked him to pay me.

Cross-examined by Lawrence. I have written to you asking if you would discount bills for Farrington and Holmes—you said you had discounted for Holmes of Long Lane—when I told you I had trusted Holmes, you said I ought to have tried to get something in cash—you said that a solicitor you knew had discounted bills for Holmes, and you said you would discount another one for him if you had it—you warned me that Holmes of Dulwich had sold his shop; but all this information was too late—you said Holmes had lent you money, but that was no proof that he was safe—all this was after I had supplied the goods—you pretended you were very innocent in the matter, and would help me, but you never did—you asked me to lend

you 3l.—you told lie you had facilities for an advance of 2001, and you gave me a bill for 10l. and one for 40l. of Lindsay's, but they were not worth anything—before Holmes had any flour, you said he was safe and doing a large business.

Re-examined. I trusted Holmes on Lawrence's recommendation—I have lost 100l. by these transactions—Lawrence attempted to get flour on hia own account; I refused to supply him—I had not the flour at the time and I thought I had taken bills enough; I did not like to trust him—I have since recognised some of the flour I sold to the two Holmes's—I saw half of it at Spratts', and the rest at the Phoenix biscuit club; that was two mouths afterwards.

CHARLES LUCOCK . I am manager for Spratts' biscuit works—I bought 50 sacks of flour of Farrington, on 21st April, for 50l. 10s.; it was a common cheap kind.

Cross-examined by MR. LYNCH. He called the day before and left a sample; I gave the full market value—he represented it as his own, and I made the cheque payable to him.

THOMAS KAY . I am a wine merchant, trading as T. J. Kay and Co., 34, Minories—Phillips was a traveller in my service from December 1878, till 31st January, 1879—he gave a verbal order for spirits for C. J. Holmes, of Long Lane, to the amount of 17l. 2s.—I supplied it; I have never been paid—I knew that Phillips had previously been traveller for Mr. Mossey.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. My porter delivered the goods to Holmes, and got a receipt for it, I have not got it hero—I made inquiry about Holmes through my traveller; I ascertained that he was a respectable man, but we found afterwards that the inquiry was about the father.

Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. You said he was in a good way of business, I did not trust him entirely on your statement, but to a great extent on Mr. McDennot's; you advised me to get cash—Holmes afterwards called, and I think it was in consequence of what he said that I gave him credit; you brought him once, and he came by himself afterwards, and it was after that I supplied the goods on credit fully a month afterwards—yon were no party to that—I am not prosecuting; I am simply a witness; I was bound over; you called on me since you were out on bail—I don't knot that we discussed the case, I said if this was my matter alone, I did not see how you could be charged—you asked me to let you try and make Holmes pay.

RICHARD WELSH . I am a miller, at Barton Mill, near Petworth, Sussex—on 26th March, 1878, I received an order for flour from Holmes, giving two references, Vincent was one and Simonds the other—I replied as to Vincent that I could not accept him if he was the same person I did business with some years ago, and who owed me several hundred pounds—I think be said he was not the same person—I did not send the flour.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I never saw Holmes, and don't know his writing.

Cross-examined by FILLAN. I never applied to Vincent—he used to sell goods for me on commission three years ago—he was a baker, and I supplied him with flour; he paid at first—he now owes me some hundreds.

Re-examined. He was my traveller from 1866 to 1869—during that time he brought me many orders from people who did not pay—in 1869 he owed me 500l. or 600l. on his own account, besides the bad debts he made

as traveller—I heard nothing of him After that till this application of Holmes.

JOHN HARRIS . I am agent to Booth, Brothers, coal merchants, at Walworth—Vincent at one time took orders for that firm on commission—he introduced an order for coals from C. J. Holmes, of 89, Long Lane—on 11th December, 1879, to the amount of 2l. 18s.—they were not paid for—Vincent said they would be paid for on delivery; but when the carman returned, he reported that they were to be paid for in a month, according to the terms with the traveller—I would not have parted with them on those terms—I applied for payment within an hour, and have since make many applications, and sued in the County Court, but have not recovered anything.

HENRY BARTON WOOD . I am traveller to Messrs. Leney and Sons, brewers, at Walworth—Hiscock was our traveller from November, 1878, to July, 1879; he was paid 2l. a week and commission of 1s. a barrel on all he sold; he was to lose 15 per cent on money not recovered—he made a good many bad debts, one was the prisoner Holmes, two casks at 2l.14s.—he also introduced a small order from Phillips and Whitehouse, wither paid—altogether I should think the number of bad debts amounted to about 130l., 70l. or 75l. of which is still unsatisfied—he would be a loser under the terms of his contract.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN, We made inquiries before executing some of the orders, the order from Phillips and Whitehouse were each for a nine gallon cask—I don't believe we made inquiry about Holmes.

THOMAS HANCOCK . I am employed by Daniel Greenaway, printer, of 30, Camomile Street—Phillips was a traveller. for us from October, 1878, to January, 1879—he introduced on order from C. J. Holmes, of 89, Long Lane; and we supplied handbills and posters relative to opening a branch business at East Surrey Grove, Peckham—we sent an account; it has never been paid—Phillips introduced a few other small accounts which have not been paid—he left principally for quarrelling with other people, and we also discovered that he was travelling for Mr. Massey at the same time.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. Holmes' account was 2l. 8s. 6d.—I know there was a shop at East Surrey Grove, I believe opened by Holmes—the goods were delivered in Long Lane—he had no other dealings with us to my knowledge.

Cross-examined by Phillips. Ten pounds would be the outside of the bad debts you made, including Holmes—since you left Mr. Greenaway has asked you to collect several of the outstanding accounts, and you have collected some and handed over the balance.

EEENEZER SLATER KING . I have been in the employment of the executors of Mr. Charles Flowers, a miller, of Biggleswade—Farrington was a traveller of Mr. Flowers, and his father had been so before him—in December, 1878, an order was taken by one of the Farrington's, for flour to be supplied to Charles Holmes, of Tabard Street, to the amount of about 32l.—I cannot tell which of the Farrington's brought the order; they were both in the service at that time, the son acting during his father's illness—it was the son's duty to get in this debt from Holmes—he did not succeed in doing so—we have never been paid—Holmes had previously paid for small-quantities of flour.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I never saw Holmes of Tabard Street—I am not prepared to say it was the prisoner.

Cross-examined. by MR. LYNCH. I had been with Mr. Powers 11 years—this debt of Holmes was contracted in 1877 or 1878—Farrington became our traveller in April, 1879—I am not prepared to say that the debt was not contracted by him because he acted for his father—he became traveller on the death of his father—I have not my books here—I speak from recollection—our system was that customers should pay one lot under the other—when Farrington left he sued the executors in the county court for wrongful dismissal—he got a verdict—he made about half-a-dozen bad debts.

WILLIAM JORDAN . I am a clerk to Powers and Son, of Albion Mills, King's Cross, brother to the last witness's firm—in August, 1879 I met Holmes in Mark Lane—he asked me to supply him with ten sacks of flour which I did—he paid on the following Monday morning—they were delivered in. Tabard Street on the Wednesday, and on Thursday morning we received a letter from a man stating that he (the writer) had bought the business of Holmes—payment was not made—we put the matter in the hands of our solicitors; they sued him, but were unable to serve the writ—I met him in Mark lane some weeks afterwards; I did not speak to him—I afterwards heard of his doing business in Dulwich—the writ was afterwards served in Long Lane, but on the wrong man—I obtained a second writ, and meeting Holmes in Mark Lane, I said "Mr. Holmes;" he said "Yes"—I said "I have a piece of paper for you"—he took the writ, tore it in two, and knocked me down.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. There is no doubt as to which Holmes knocked me down or which got the flour—I swear that Samuel Holmes bought it—I did not deliver it myself—I don't know whether it was delivered to him or his brother—it might have been in '77, '78, or '79—he was fined at the Mansion House for the assault—I am prepared to swear it was the prisoner—George Holmes is very like him; he was a witness for his brother at the Mansion House in the assault charge—I am certain it was not George who knocked me down.

EDWARD WALKER . I am a partner in the Phoenix biscuit works, Ratcliff Cross—on 1st May I purchased from Farrington 40 sacks of middlings, at 18s. a sack; 50 sacks were delivered—they have since been recognised by Mr. Griffiths.

By the COURT. I had not had any previous transaction with Farrington—I gave him what I considered a fair market price—I have bought better stuff since at less money—I bought it in the ordinary way on the market.

FREDERICK BENJAMIN GANDEE . I am a teacher of drawing—in April, 1879, I saw an advertisement in the paper which caused me to write a letter to H. Lawrence and Co., and got this answer of April 15th, 1879—it states: "We duly received your favour of 3rd January"—I had written so long before as that (this was a proposal to borrow 50l. or 100l. as additional capital to increase the business of cordial manufacturers)—after receiving that letter I saw Lawrence at Burton Crescent—he told me he was doing a good business, and offered me his book to look over—I found that he had done business to the amount of something under 50/. in a few months—I said "Mr. Lawrence, we are strangers, you must give me references," and he gave me three; one to Mr. Hamilton Boss, Secretary to an important Scotch club in Great George Street, consisting of about 1,500 noblemen, and one to Mr. Hayman, of Middleton Square; I forget the third, but it was some

distance off—it was neither of the prisoners—I called on them all—I said "You want 50l.?"—he said "No, I think I can do with 25l."—I thought that was greatly in his favour—I said "If your references are satisfactory I will let you have amount," and I did—I have only got 8l. of it back; he paid me 1l. a week for eight weeks; he cannot pay more, he is a poor man—he gave me no security, only his bill; he has not taken it up—I have not got it—there was no name on it but his own—I afterwards lent him 3l.10s. to buy goods, and afterwards on Thomas's bill for 58l. I lent him 15l., and afterwards on Hayman's bill of 86l. 10s. 35l., and afterwards 10l. more on Hayman's renewed bill, and afterwards 17l. 10s. on a bill of Farrington's—my solicitor, Mr. Davis, has that—I afterwards lent him 40l. more on Holmes's bill, in all 138l., which he still owes me—I have none of the bills here—they are all overdue, none of them produced anything—I think I was applied to for a further advance, which I refused—I have here a letter of Lawrence's in June, 1879, written on a printed prospectus of the "Princess Royal Stimulant; "also one of 2nd November, 1879, with reference to Farrington's bill—I employed Mr. Dinn, a solicitor, to make inquiries with regard to Farrington—I have not had any communication personally with any of the prisoners except Lawrence—it was after Mr. Dinn's report to me that I advanced the money on Farrington's bill—I have sued all the parties, and got judgment in every case, but got nothing—-—I have paid Mr. Dinn his costs—he is not my solicitor now—I have since employed Mr. Davis—these (produced. are the two bills of Farrington and Holmes—I endorsed them both—I endorse every bill, as a receipt for the money; I always do so if I advance money on them, thinking they will be paid; I shall not do so again—I put in an execution against Farrington that yielded 17s. I think; the others nothing—this bill for 82l. 7s., of 9th March, drawn by Dover Brothers, is the one I declined—it was given to me by Mr. Davis—it comes from Holmes—Lawrence had no connection with that, so far as I know—I trusted to Mr. Dinn, and paid him for it.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I only discount occasionally—I advanced 40l. this 61l. 10s. bill on 12th March—it became due on 24th May—I did not charge any interest; I was to have the balance for the money lawrence owed me—I never saw Holmes till he was at the police-court.

Cross-examined by MR. SAMPSON. I advanced 17l. 10s. on the 41l. 6s. bill-—I had no other security—I have never realised anything on it—I had Mr. Boss's promise in writing to pay me if these parties failed; this is the letter, dated 11th February—Mr. Ross told me that Lawrence was a respectable man, though poor, and that he would get on if he had a little capital, and that he had himself advanced him 30l.—in consequence of the letters I got from the three references, Mr. Ross being one, I advanced the 25l.—I did not require the bill to be endorsed by Mr. Boss—on the second occasion I said I could not do it without Mr. Boss's authority—Lawrence said he would get it, and I got Mr. Boss's letter and gave Lawrence the money the next day.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I do not remember the names of Cook and Urquhart being given me as references to a bill, with Holmes's name on it—I don't think said so at the police-court; if I did it must be so.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. Hiscock was not one of the references—Mr. Dinn was my solicitor in carrying out these loans—I don't think that he also acted for Lawrence; I was not aware of it.

Cross-examined by Lawrence. I answered your advertisement seeking a a partner—you took no notice of the application for three months-you gave me three references, Hayxnan, Silverman, and Rose—I saw Mrs. Silverman; she said you were poor but honest—I looked over your books—I did not tell you if you required a reference you might refer to me; I did not know you enough—I paid you a visit at Charing Cross—the office was a good-sized room, quite sufficient for your purpose—it was respectably furnished—I thought Hayman was a respectable man, but I am sorry to find he is not—I referred Holmes's bill to Mr. Dinn—I believe his clerk made personal inquiries about him—I have heard that Mr. Dinn advanced money to Holmes out of his own pocket; I don't know it as a fact.

Re-examined. I saw Mr. Boss several times; he said he Lawrence had been misled, that he was not so guilty as he was represented; he lost money by Lawrence; he lent him a large sum of money—Lawrence represented that these were genuine trade bills, that he had sold cigars to those persons, and they had given him the bills for them.

HENRY DINN . I am a solicitor of Doctors' Commons—I acted for Mr. Gandee to a certain extent in a professional capacity—at that time I did not know any of the prisoners; I did subsequently, only Lawrence—he was sent on to me by Mr. Gandee—I subsequently made the acquaintance of Dover—I never saw Farrington; I am not sure whether! wrote him a letter—to the best of my knowledge I did not—I had no communication with Vincent or with Holmes in reference to Mr. Gandee's matter—I wrote this letter (Head, from the witness to Vincent, dated 11th March, 1880; "Sir,—Mr. Holmes, of 91, Long Lane, has given you as a reference to his respectability and solvency, and I shall be glad if you will inform me by return of post what you know of Mr. Holmes and his means, and if he can be safely trusted from 60l. to 80l.")—I was not instructed by Mr. Gandee as to that inquiry—what Mr. Gandee has stated with regard to the instructions he gave me as to the two bills is correct—I received this answer from Vincent ("March 10, 1880. In reply to yours of this day I have known Mr. Holmes for some year, and have done a large business with him, and always found him straightforward and punctual in payment, and I consider him safe for the amount you name")—I had forgotten that when I said I had had no correspondence with Vincent—I sent a clerk to make inquiries about Holmes and Farrington, but not on behalf of Mr. Gandee—I have been a solicitor thirty years.

JOSEPH WASSEY . I am a teacher in public schools, and am engaged in literary pursuits—at the time I employed Phillips I had an agency in Mark Lane with several French houses in the wine trade—I was agent for a wine house in Epernay—I had an office at 72, Mark Lane—Phillips became my traveller towards the end of 1878 in answer to an advertisement—I employed him on commission—he brought me between 14 and 20 orders, but they were hardly worth putting down—they varied in amounts—they were very bad orders—I put faith in his representation that all the orders he brought me were to be exceptionally good—some of them were fictitious—he brought an order from Charles John Holmes for champagne, and another in the name of John Holmes, the two together amounting to 14l. 16s—I did not execute the order to John Holmes; I did the one to Charles John Holmes; that was never paid; that wine was delivered in Long lane—Phillips

gave me his own address as No. 5, Anstey Road, Peckham Rey—he remained with me about six weeks during December and January.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I gave up the wine trade the beginning of January—the firm at Epernay have not directed customers not to pay any account to me—the firm drew on all the buyers.

Cross-examined by Phillips. I do not know the signature of Mrs. Tasse of Epernay; I never saw it—the firm have dissolved—I represented them from 1877 to the beginning of 1879—I am now living at East End, Finchley—I have no place of business—I have now continued my own profession, which I have exercised 30 years—you introduced about eight fictitious orders—you did not tell me when I employed you that you were traveller for Mr. Greenaway, or I should not have employed you; I found it out afterwards—I have paid you nothing—you sued me for 8l. or 9l. for commission in the Loud Mayor's Court, and you owe me 8l. 16s. for legal costs which I incurred—the action went entirely against you; the verdict was in my favour—I do not owe you anything—you did not leave me at your own accord; I kicked you out of the office—I was not turned out of my office in Mark Lane and sold up—I did compound with my creditors in 1871—I have given a bill of sale to suit my own puroses—I have no judgment out against me.

HENRY HOST SWINNEY . I am a commission agent in Fenchurch Street-in November, 1879, I engaged Whitehouse as a traveller—he brought me three orders from C. J. Holmes for biscuits to the amount of 17l. 3s. 8d.—that has never been paid—the terms were at one month—I have taken steps, but have recovered noticing—Whitehouse also brought me an order from George Holmes for about the same amount; he did not pay—he also brought an order from Hiscook to an amount of 26l., for which he gave me an acceptance—Simmonds called at my office on the 28th January last, and applied for the same post as Whitehouse had had.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. The orders supplied to C. J. Holmes we on the 21st and 22nd November, and 3rd December, 1879—I tare never Been Holmes—I took proceedings in the City of London Court, but I found he was them, in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. FILLAN. It was some tea that Hiscock had—the acceptance was due on the 7th April—he called on me on the 5th, and asked me for an extension—I gave him until the 19th, but he did not pay—I do not remember whether he was in custody at that time or not.

CHARLES SCALES . I am in the service of Godenti, Spazaguapue, and Cod, fancy confectioners, 49 and 50, Milton Street, City—Whitehouse became their traveller on 29th September, 1879, until about the end of October—he introduced orders to the amount of about 140l. or 150l. of which only 17l. was paid—the goods were not all delivered—one order was from Charles Holmes, of Long Lane; another from George Holmes, of Dulwich were never paid for—I went to George Holmes's place and made and found he had sold his business and gona.

Cross-examined by MR. LEVY. I saw the prisoner Holmes when I called; in Long Lane—it looked like a genuine concern—we took proceedings him in the Mayor's Court.

MARTIN TUCKER . I am sub-manager at the Universal Tea Association, 4, Mark Lane Square, and Simmonds was our traveller from 26th April to 24th May this year—he introduced an order from C. J.

Holmes for six half-chests of tea to the value of about 30l.—we made inquiry, and did not execute it.

WILLIAM SEARLE . I am a stationer at 16, Camomile Street, City—Phillips came as traveller 14th July, and remained until the 21st November last year—he introduced an order from Hiscock—it was only 7s.—he did not pay.

GEORGE WILLIAM CHITTY . I am a miller at Dover—on 25th July last I received a letter, signed C. J. Holmes, asking for prices, and afterwards another letter containing an order and giving references—one was to Simmonds—I wrote and got this reply of the 9th August (produced.—I did not supply the flour, although the answers were satisfactory—I had an application from Farrington to be employed as traveller, but I did not want one—I had a further letter from Holmes, asking if his references suited and why I did not send the flour; and on the 7th September another letter from Farrington—I became suspicious—I did not send the floor.

JAMES CHRISTY . I am a miller of Chelsea—on the 25th July I received a letter from Holmes asking for prices of flour, and on the 2nd August an order for 20 sacks, and enclosing references to Simmonds and Shaw—I wrote to them and got replies; in consequence of which I sent 20 sacks of flour to Holmes, value 35l.—I got a cheque from him in return, which was dishonoured—I have never got paid.

Several letters produced in the course of the ease were read, tending to show the connection between the different defendants.

Holmes and Lawrence received good characters.

HOLMES— GUILTY of obtaining and of conspiracy.— Five Years' Penal Servitude. DOVER, LAWRENCE, and FARRINGTON— GUILTY of conspiracy.— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. HISCOCK, VINCENT, SIMMONDS, and PHILLIPS— NOT GUILTY .

Before Mr. Common Sergeant.

Reference Number: t18800803-450

450. ARTHUR SYDENHAM FELL (45) PLEADED GUILTY to forging and uttering an order for the payment of 5l. 5s.; also to stealing a cheque, the property of William Edward Constable.— Twelve Months Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-451

451. JOHN THOMAS (40) , Feloniously and maliciously causing Sarah Thomas grievous bodily harm, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. DE MICHALE , Prosecuted.

SARAH THOMAS . I am the prisoner's wife—I lived with him at 28, Sandgate Street, Lambeth—he is a hawker—about the 30th June I was in the house with my husband about the middle of the day—he had had a good deal to drink—he asked me to give him some money to pay his fare in the country—I refused—he got in a passion and struck me with his fist in the face—I fell down—after a minute I felt a kick on my leg—when I was on the ground he took the money from my pocket—he went out and left me lying on the floor—I got to the bed as quick as I could—I found my left leg was no use to me; I could not stand up—the landlady came up—I was then taken to the hospital—I stayed there a fortnight and afterwards went to the infirmary—I was there for three weeks and came out on a Monday—I cannot use my left leg now.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not fall with my leg underneath me.

PRISCILLA JOHNSON . I live at 28, Stangate Street, Lambeth, with my sister, who is the landlady—on the 30th of June I heard a noise on the ceiling like somebody falling down—about half an hour afterwards, when Mr. Thomas left, I went up—I found Mrs. Thomas lying on the bed, crying—she made a complaint—I examined her leg—it was swelled very much—a constable was sent for—the prisoner did not come back—I next was him at the Sessions House, Kennington Lane, in July, when he was brought from Liverpool—his wife appeared there—she was brought from the infirmary.

WILLIAM LEGOOD (Policeman L 30). On the 30th June I was called to 28, Stangate Street, about 3 p.m.—I saw Mrs. Thomas lying on the bed—she made a complaint to me—I took her to St. Thomas Hospital.

STEPHEN WHITE (Detective L). From instructions I received, I arrested the prisoner at Liverpool on the 19th of July—I told him the charge—he said "I did not know her leg was broken, we had a little bit of a struggle together, she had taken my money, and I wanted it to pay my fart from London to Newcastle; I sent her a registered letter yesterday from carlisle."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You said you sent her a sovereign from Carlisle—I did not hear you say you would send her some more money if you got an answer to your letter.

ROBERT PERCY SMITH . I am house surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital—on the evening of the 30th of June I examined Sarah Thomas—I found she had a fracture of the lower end of the left fibula, or outer small bone of the leg—there was a great deal of swelling—there were no marks of very great violence—it was not discoloured; it became discoloured afterwards—the fracture might have been caused by a kick or a blow—it must have been caused by some amount of violence—the injury will not be permanent; the bone has united and is going on very well.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The fracture might have been caused by a fall with the leg underneath or with the foot twisted.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. "All that occurred was a pure accident, and I was not aware of it."

Prisoner's Defence. It was a pure accident, and occurred in less than one second. We had a dispute. I caught hold of her, and being a heavy woman she fell, with her leg underneath. She never said anything to me about the broken leg. When I am turned into the street I have not a farthing. I am entirely at the mercy of the Court.


Reference Number: t18800803-452

452. JOHN THOMAS was again indicted for unlawfully assaulting Sarah Thomas and occasioning her actual bodily harm.

Evidence in the last case was repeated.

GUILTY Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-453

453. JAMES COLLINS (19) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of John Conrad and stealing an overcoat and 8s. 6d. his property.

FOSTER READ Prosecuted. COOPER WILDE Defended.

SOPHIA CONRAD . I am the wife of Joe Conrad, a baker, at 15, Dean Street, Walworth—on Tuesday, the 20th July, I went to bed about

20 minutes to 12 p.m.—I left the house secure—I was aroused by a constable about 2.40 a.m.—on searching below I discovered my husband's overcoat was gone and my jacket, from the bottom drawer in the parlour—I also missed a pair of ear-rings, a brooch, as well as about 10s. out of the till in the shop—there were four threepenny pieces, one fourpenny piece, and a sixpence, and pence and halfpence and farthings—I had marked this threepenny piece in the afternoon in pastime while talking to a lady—the parlour window was opened and the shutters pushed back—I had also noticed this bright farthing (produced. in the till.

Cross-examined. I have never seen a brighter farthing—I take a good many farthings in the course of the week—there was hardly another farthing left in the till—I took several threepenny pieces that day—I do not know which scratch I made on the threepenny piece—I have not had my jacket or coat back nor seen them—there was 5s. worth of coppers in the till after tea—I had been out till dinner time—we had done a good business during the evening—there might have been more or less than 10s. in the till, I cannot say—I cannot swear to this halfpenny.

CAROLINE HOWES . I am the wife of Charles Hormer Howes, and live at 22, Deacon Street—On the morning of 21st July I was awoke a little after I o'clock—I heard some men talking outside—I got out of bed and looked out of the window—I saw five men; two were opening a window at No. 15—I watched and saw two go in and throw out a gentleman's overcoat—one of the men outside put it on—they threw something else out, I could not see what that was, then they shut the window down and I saw a glimmer of a light in the parlour window—the house is opposite—presently I saw the window open a little way, and one of the men outside said, "Shut the window down; here is a copper. oming,"and the window was closed—it was opened again soon afterwards, and out jumped two men, and the four ran away, the fifth man walking away entirely by himself—I do not recognize the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Deacon Street is a wide street—I had a good opportunity of seeing the two men—I do not know any of them.

ALRED WHITE (Policeman 254). About 2.45 a.m., on 21st July, I was in Sayer Street within a few yards of Deacon Street, it is a continuation of it; I observed a man peeping round a corner—I went after him; it was the prisoner—I saw him cross on to the opposite side of the road—another man came in the opposite direction; they muttered something to each other which I could not hear—I said "What are you waiting about here for?" the prisoner said "I don't see that I should be hunted off, because I have not done anything"—he was about 17 yards from the prosecutrix's shop when I first saw him—I drew the attention of another constable to the matter; the prisoner went away—I waited at the corner of Deacon Street two or three minutes; my attention was then called by another constable I met to the prosecutrix's shop; this was about 2.45 a.m.—from what he told me I went in pursuit of the prisoner; I found him at the corner of Manor Place, Was worth Road, about 200 yards away—he came out of a public urinal at the coffee stall—I said "Oh, you are here now; "he Said "Me, sir?" I said "Yes;" he said "You have not seen me before; "I said "Did not I speak to you in Deacon Street just now f he said No, I have just come from the docks;" I said "Do you mean to say I did not speak to you in Deacon Street?" he wished me good morning and off he ran—I

called him to stop and he would not—I caught him in Princes Street—I took him to the station—I searched him; in his inside coat pocket I found 49 pence and six halfpence, in his trousers pocket I found 46 farthings, 10 halfpence, and two threepenny pieces; in the fob, next pocket, I found one shilling in silver, a street door key, and an empty purse—this is the money (produced.—prosecutrix identified this threepenny piece at the station, as well as this blight farthing and a halfpenny—the prisoner was charged with being concerned with others in the burglary; he said the money was given to him by Mr. Hammond, at the Mineral Waters, in Thames Street; I went to Mr. Hammond—some time afterwards he said it was given to him by a man he did not know—he afterwards said he saw a man throw it out of a pocket handkerchief in a doctor's shop, it slipped on to the pavement and he picked it up as it fell on a stone step—he said that was near the railway arch—he said that before the magistrate, and he also said he saw four men throw it away.

Cross-examined. I know he made the statement about the doctor's shop Wore the magistrate, although it is not put down—I have been in Court and heard what the witness said about the threepenny piece, the halfpenny, and the bright farthing—she swore to the bright farthing at the policestation—Sayer Street continues Deacon Street round a corner, it runs on a cross—I was 20 or 30 yards off when I saw him at the corner—I noticed his red necktie—he had a cup of coffee.

JOHN BEALE (Policeman P 303). I was with the last witness; I saw the prisoner in Deacon Street, looking round the corner—my attention was called to 15, Deacon Street; I observed the window to be open about six inches from the bottom—the shutters were closed—I went in I the till was open; there were three threepenny pieces lying on the counter, and three farthings—there, were no marks on the windows—the prisoner made a statement at the conclusion of the case at the police court; I did not notice what it was.

Cross-examined. He said he reserved his defence, and would call no witnesses—I left, the money in the shop—I saw the prisoner speak to a man, going in the opposite direction.

GEORGE CRUSE . I live at 25, Clock Passage, Newington Butts—I keep a coffee-stall—about 2.30 a.m. on the 21st July, I was at my coffee-stall at the corner of Deacon Street; I saw four men coming. down Deacon Street—15, Deacon Street, is about 50 or 60 yards from my stall—I saw the men five or six yards off—the prisoner was one of them; he was on the same side the way as the baker's shop—before that I had seen two men running—I saw the constable in the street about an hour afterwards; I could not say whether it was very near or quite daylight—I saw the policeman talking to the prisoner at the corner of the mews—the prisoner was not at my stall; I identified him at the station—I am sure he is the man who come down Deacon Street.

Cross-examined. He was pointed out to me at the station—I said I did not see him amongst the 12 I saw in Deacon Street—I saw 10 or 12 in Deacon Street, and my attention was drawn to four; he was one of the four—I said at the police-court, "I saw a policeman there, the prisoner came back alone about three-quarters of an hour afterwards, "that is true—I would not say to three-quarters or half an hour.

ALFRED WHITE (Recalled.) The last witness' stall is at the corner of

Deacon Street, the other stall is at the corner of Manor Place and 200 yards off, by the urinal—I did not bring the prisoner back to the last witness' coffee-stall—I knew Cruse and asked him if he had seen anyone—I did not ask the prisoner why he was out so late.

GUILTY of receiving.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-454

454. THOMAS KING (51), WILLIAM HARBORD (47) HENRY HARBORD , CHARLES WILLIAM FRYER RICHARD HENRY MOTT (22), and THOMAS BENNETT (29) , Unlawfully conspiring with William Stevens and others to steal large quantities of drugs and chemicals.

MESSRS. POLAND and MONTAGU WILLIAMS Prosecuted. MR. HORACE AVORY appeared for King and MR. FULTON for Mott.

WILLIAM STEVENS (In Custody). I am under sentence of five years' penal servitude in Pentonville—I was tried here and sentenced with Henry Harbord at they January Sessions, for stealing drugs of the prosecutors—after my conviction I communicated with Inspector Phillips and saw him in the prison and made a communication which he took down in writing—I afterwards saw Mr. Fryer, of the firm of May and Bate, and made a statement to him—in October, 1877, Henry Harbord and I were working together at Pink's pickle manufactory, Long Lane, Bermondsey, and the following January I opened a coffee-stall at Dock" Head, Bermondeey, and kept it till September—I was then living at 81, Eupert Street, Bermondsey—I was then single, but engaged to be married to my present wife—Henry Harbord came to my wife and asked her to make some money—I said, "In what way?"—he said that he had a friend who could get any kind of chemicals, red precipitate powder and calomel—I said, "What is the use of getting them if you can't sell them?"—he said, "I can sell them, I have sold tons of them"—I said, "If you can get the chemicals and sell them, why don't you do it yourself?"—he said, "I am so well known about there, it would get to the governor's ears if I went about there, "meaning the premises—he told me that he worked at Baker's 7 years—I said that I would consider of it—I afterwards got married, and in December I saw him again; he asked me what I thought of it—I said that I would go down with him any time he liked to May and Baker's—he said that we were to meet Tom King the night watchman at May and Baker's—I went there with him the Saturday before Christmas, 1878, at 12.30 in the day, and we met the prisoner King in the street—he and King walked on and I followed—when they had got about 10 yards we all three went together and Harbord said, "This is my pal"—King said, "Is he a sound one?"—Harbord said, "Yes, you could trust your life in his hands"—King said, "I shan't do anything this side of Christmas. I hare bad leg and it is awkward to get about"—we made an agreement to go down the first Monday in January at 9.30 p.m.—King said that would be a quiet time to go as the police were charging duty—Henry Harbord and I went to William Harbord's house, in Hope Street, Battersea—I left him there as arranged, with King, and went to May and Baker's; I got there at 9.30 p.m., and found King waiting for me at the small gate—he asked me inside and asked for the bag—I gave him two bags which I brought with me, and went with him and saw him fill them with red precipitate powder—we went through

three doors, up a flight of stairs—I took 70lbs. of red precipitate; it was taken out with a scoop—Henry Harbord and I took it to my house, Bells Court, Bermondsey Street—we had an arrangement with King to meet on Tuesday night; we went at the same time—King let us in, and asked whether we wanted calomel or red precipitate—I said, "It does not matter"—he said, "We will have lumps to-night, as there is not much calomel there"—he gave me 60lbs. of red precipitate in lumps; he weighed it—I told him Henry Harbord wanted powder—he said, "Come on Thursday night"—you must wear a white smock and carry a tea bottle in jour hand, and you then can pass anyone, the people will have left work—I went at 9.30 on Thursday, with two bags and tea bottle with me—King let me in and we came to iron doors—he opened them, rent in, and got 25lbs. of powder out of a box marked B. T.—I took it to William Harbord's house, and told King it would be easy to draw on Friday—he said, "That is right, I want some money"—I took it to my house, and Henry Harboard came at 9.30 next morning—he said, "I will take some samples, I am going to my old pal—I said he had better sell it—he went away, returned at 12.30, and said he could not find him—he then said he would go to the man who had bought the spirit of him, Mr. Freeman, Chemist, of Kennington Park Road—he returned at 180, and said, "I have had a bit of luck, I sold 14lbs., one of white precipitate, one of calomel, and some bismuth"—I said, "That's no good, there is no red calomel and no white precipitate"—he said he would take ten of red precipitate and one of bismuth, and get money for them—I waited outside the shop; he came out in 20 minutes and said, "This party cannot buy much red precipitate powder, he wants dry chemicals; he says he bought bismuth at three shillings a pound, and red precipitate at 1s. 6d.t and he gave me a sovereign"—he said "You have Men working at chemical works, have you not any pals? "I said, "No"—On next Wednesday I met Henry Harbord, and he said, "I have met my pal, and have sold the powder at a low price," and he was to take it to the Old George public-house, Tower Hill—I went there with him the next Thursday, and met a man named James Clark, who paid six sovereigns, and I had two—we met King again the same night as he left his work, and saw three sovereigns given to him near the policeoffice—he said, "I can't do anything this week, there are Some men at work, meet me at the same time next week"—Harbord gave me four boxes on Monday and I gave them to King, and went to William Harbord's house—I stopped there till 9.15 p.m., and then went to May and Baker's—King let me in—he had four bags, weighing 120 lbs.—I said I could not carry the whole of it at once—he said, "Leave two and come back again"—I took it to my place, and next morning to William Harbord's house—he said, "I can't allow you to make an accommodation of my house unless I get something by it"—Henry Harbord said, "We will give you something"—John Clark bought it of us at a 1s. per pound, and we gave William Harbord 10s.—I went to the factory three times a week, and generally five times—we always sold it to the same person, and gave William Harbord 10s. a week for the use of his house—on our way from the factory, in June, 1879, with the calomel and bismuth, Serjeant Francis stopped us, and I told him it was whitelead—we were both taken to the station, brought before a magistrate, and remanded on bail; we were subsequently discharged, and the property restored to us at Greenwich

Police Court, and we sold it to Clark—I did not go to the factory again till 1st July—I then got the same kind of thing—that continued till the end of August—King said that Mr. Fryer had been looking about the premises, saying that there was a thief, and he would catch him—I told Harbord, and we did not go again for a month; wo then returned and continued doing the same till November—all the stuff we took in October we sold to Cross (about 45l. worth) between the three of us, King, Henry Harbord, and myself—we took very little in November, because Clark told me he could not sell any till after Christmas—in December I was being trained for a running match by a man named Carpenter every morning at 10.30, and I told him we should like to sell some drugs, and gave him two or three samples which I got from Henry Harbord's house—on 4th December I god 981bs. of calomel from May and Baker's and left it all night at William Harbord's—next morning I fetched it from Waterloo Station, and the officers took me in custody—I said that it was whitelead—they said, "That tale won't wash this time"—William Harbord was called on my trial to prove that it was whitelead, but the Jury convicted me—he swore that it was the same stuff as the Greenwich stuff—when I took the lumps home I reduced them to powder—I was living in Arthur Street, Walworth, and the landlady told my wife she would not let me the place if I did it at home—we used to get a sheet of paper and lay it on the table and roll it with a bottle—Henry Harbord was not there; my wife has been to his house with me from time to time—I once saw a man on May and Baker's premises who King said was Old Ike, a pal of his—Henry Harbord said he became acquainted with Clark through Jim Smith; that Clark used to work at May and Roberta's, and they both lodged at Jim Smith's, and that his first transaction with dark was 10 bottles of quicksilver, for which he got 50l., and that they were worth 150l.—I formerly worked at a druggist's in Alderagate Street, when Mott was in their employ, and in March, 1879, I met him in a coffee-house in Newington Butts—he was then working at Morson's, in Southampton Row—I told him that Henry Harbord and I were getting calomel and selling it—he said, "What is the use of that?"—I said, "We are selling it on the cross.—he said, "I should like to make some money myself"—I asked him to bring Henry Harbord, and meet him up Holborn next day outside the music hall—I did so, and we went into the Ship public-house—Henry Harbord and Mott had a little talk, and an agreement was made how he was to bring things out from Morson and Sons, and a great quantity of things were brought from there every week which Henry Harbord sold to a man named Freeman—the money was evenly divided between me and Mott and Harbord—Bennett worked in the same firm, Mott introduced me to him—he brought hampers of chemicals out of Morson's in July, which he delivered to me, and they were sent to my house by parcels delivery; one parcel contained 321bs of tartaric acid, and another 301bs of bromide of potassium—and another contained some brown liquid—that was in September, it was addressed to me and sold to a man in Finsbury Park Road—the profits were shared equally between me Bennett, Mott, and Harbord; the highest profit we made was 11l. 10s. in one day—I discussed with Harbord what they were paying us, it was some-where about one fourth and somewhere one third of the value—I used to meet Friar at Holborn with Mott; he was called Little Harry—he said to

me in August, "I can see the little game between you and Mott, and if you do not sell something for me I shall round on you"—I said that I would sell anything ho brought out, and he brought 100 ounces of morphia—I paid him 2s. for it, and sold it for 5s.—Harbord and I divided the profit—Mott said in October that Morson's had missed a lot of goods, and there was a bother about it, and we had better be quiet for a month or two—on 3rd December, Mott said that he had been searched by the police—when I went to May and Baker's, King said, "When the gas is not alight, never come down to the factory."

Cross-examined by MR. H. AVORY. Carpenter and Thomas King were called on my trial as witnesses for the prosecution—I knew that William Harbord was going to be called, but I did not know what he. was going to swear—I heard what he swore.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. I did not at the beginning of January run off from Bells Court, Bermondsey, and leave three weeks' rent owing—I did not in February send you to get some stuff to poison my grandmother at Peckham, nor did I say that my uncle was a little silly, and I should have to do for him as well—I did not want you to find the key of my landlady's front room, and rob her, and say that my wife would pawn the things—I did not know that there was anything worth having—it is not true that in March I wanted you to get come chemicals to procure abortion—I never gave a girl morphia and left her for dead—I lived with you in May, when you were taken—I swore before Mr. Phillips that I only helped you to carry some white lead—we were making 4l. or 5l. a week from Morson's firm.

Cross-examined by Fryer. I did not produce a bottle of prussic acid and ask you what it was, I showed you a bottle of scent—you did not send me things by parcels delivery, you brought them—I borrowed 2s. of you, and you came to my house for it at the end of November.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have said before that Mott had a share in these transactions (the witness's depositions did not mention Mott as sharing in the profits)—I cannot say whether I told the Magistrate so, but I said that I met Mott with Bennett—I should say that I was introduced to Bennett by Mott.

ELIZABETH MARIA STEVENS . I am the wife of the last witness—I have been obliged to go to Peckham Workhouse since his Conviction—we were married in November, 1878—I knew Henry Harbord about a month before my marriage; he worked at Pink's with my husband—my husband afterwards kept a coffee-stall—in January, 1879, we lived in Arthur street, Walworth—we only stayed there two months—in February, 1879, my husband came home differently dressed; he had a white jacket on—he made a statement to me—we were then living in Townsend street, where he brought home red and white powder in lumps, which Henry Harbord and my husband used to roll in canvas and put it into bags—he brought home the same kind of stuff at Arthur Street three or four times a week—he was taken in custody on 13th June, and Henry Harbord as well—my husband was discharged from custody, and made a statement to me—while he was in custody three or four bags of red and half a bag of white precipitate were brought to the house; Harbord's wife put it into the cellar, and afterwards my husband and Henry Harbord put it into the ground—I know John Clark, he is called Old uncle; I first

saw him when we lived in Townsend Street, and he came to Arthur Street—I most times said that we were not at home when he came—he only came to see us once in Faulkner Street, but frequently in Theobald's Road—he lives in Lambeth—I have been to his house, but cannot remember the name of the street; I went there to ask for some money which was owing, but I did not get it—I have seen William Harbord twice; he lives at Battersea; I saw him at his house—I went with my boy and saw Henry Harbord and William Harbord and his wife—my husband took some red precipitate and calomel there in a basket; it was left there, till the morning—that was at the end of September or October—Henry Harbord's wife made the bag which my husband used—some hampers came to Theobald Street by the Parcels Delivery Company addressed to my husband; I did not see the contents—I knew Mott before I was married; he visited my husband it his mother's, and he came to see my husband once at Theobald Street after we were married—we went to lodge in Theobald Street about July, and while we lived there my husband brought home some bottles of lozenges, with Morson'8 name on them—after my husband was taken the police searched our house, and took possession of a hamper and some bottles of Morson's—I did not know Fryer till after I was married; he came to Theobald Street—I knew him as Little Harry—he came twice at dinner time, and brought some morphia in white paper—I have twice seen him give my husband parcels in Holborn when we met him, but I did not hear what was said—I met Fryer in Kensington Lane after my husband was convicted; he said "Was anything said about me in Court; "I said "I did not hear"—he gave me 2s., and said he hoped to God he should not get found out—since that I saw Fryer at the Elephant and Castle—my husband gave me some money in a paper to give to him; I do not know how much—I gave it to him—I saw Clark once, about two months after my husband's trial—he did not give me anything.

Cross-examined by MR. H. AVORY. I was married in 1878, and in 1879 I was in great poverty, and my bedstead was sold under me—my husband gave me what he could—I was in the family way at the time.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. None of the calomel was brought to Bell's Court—you are too sharp to let me run away and leave you three weeks in debt—I left you two weeks in debt, but I did not run away—I used to stop out till 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning all through you—you were not in bed by 9 o'clock, only when you were tipsy—I have seen you mad drunk—the only time my husband stopped out was when he went to Battersea with you to get the stuff.

Cross-examined by Fryer. You were by yourself when I saw you in Holborn—it was in October, about 2.30—you brought two parcels to the Elephant and Castle each time—I am not aware that my husband owed yon a penny.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I was present when my husband was convicted in January—Harbord was tried with him and convicted of stealing these things.

MARY WILSON . I am a widow of 3, Arthur Street, Walworth—Stevens and his wife lived at my place from the beginning of last year.; they had one room—Stevens used to bring in heavy things in a bag or basked—I found the carpet saturated with yellow stuff—a man, who I cannot identify, used to come there—they made a rolling noise and I gave them notice to

quit—a cart used to bring things and fetch away parcels in brown paper—I found this bottle (marked "T. Morson and Son") in the dust hole.

LUCT CATLIN . I am the wife of Daniel Catlin, of 28, Theobald's Road, New Kent Road—in July last year Stevens and his wife came to lodge at our place—Henry Harbord used to come there—I knew him as Big Harry—I have often seen Stevens take brown paper parcels out of the house, and sometimes a little basket or a large basket—I have seen Fryer with him when he had the basket, but not Harbord—his wife was with him once and he was by himself once—I have seen Old Uncle or Old Jemmy there—I believe his name is Clark—the shop door was always open, and they would pass through the shop and through the kitchen to the staircase—Harbord used to whistle for Old Jemmy, who used to throw dirt up at the window—once two hampers were taken away by the police—they used to come by parcels' delivery—I saw something very shiny on the floor—Old Harry called on the day they were taken—that is, Fryer—he asked for Stevens and saw me—he said that the detectives had been and taken him in custody—I said "You had better see his wife"—he went up and spoke to her, and when he came down he said "For God's sake if the detectives call again do not say you have seen me, for I know nothing about the affair; when I came I brought a message from Mott."

Cross-examined by Fryer. You said "For God's sake," or "For goodness sake"—I did not see you bring anything in or take anything away.—I still say that you brought a message from Mott.

ARTHUR MITCHELL . I live at 21, Kinder Street, New Cross—Henry Harbord was tenant of a house of mine, and Stevens lodged at his place—Harbord was charged at Greenwich Police-court in June, 1879, and they left at the end of July—in June, 1880, Inspector Phillips and Sergeant Goodrich called on me, and I went with them to 12, Faulkner Street, and saw Phillips take a large quantity of red powder—Henry Harbord then wore sandy whiskers, but I will not swear about a moustache.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. I thought you was a respectable man, or I should not have been bail for you as I was.

WILLIAM ROPER . I keep the Bay Horse, Ebury Street, Pimlico—I know the two Harbords and King—I have seen them at May and Baker's—Henry Harbord worked under me some years ago—about 12 months ago Henry Harbord brought me a sample of red precipitate, and said that he was connected with a new firm which was started, and asked if I could sell it for him, bowing that I was connected with May and Baker, in whose service I was for 20 years—I left about four years ago—he offered it to me at 2s. 10d. a pound—this (produced. is part of the sample—he knew that I was bound in 30l. not to sell for anybody but May and Baker, so I took the sample to them—it was worth about is. a pound wholesale price—he also showed me a sample of sulphate of quinine—he never mentioned the name of the new firm he was connected with.

Cross-examined by MR. AVORY. Henry Harbord was at May and Baker's 16 years I think—he left a little over three years ago—he was engaged in the factory—King came there just before I left.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. You said that you were in a position to get mercurials in any quantity—I have nothing to guide me to say that the sample was May and Baker's—I know you were intimate with Garrett, who works at Yoles's—they do not prepare their calomel in the same way, it does not go through the same process.

Re-examined. I travelled for May and Baker, but I was also engaged in the manufacture.

WILLIAM DRAYWATER . I kept the Ostrich beershop, Penton Place, Walworth; I left it last Christmas—I know Mott, Fryer, Henry Harbord, and I fancy Bennett, but I only saw him once—Henry Harbord came frequently, and Stevens used to tome and converse with him in the day time—Harbord came daily with a bag and met Stevens, but they whispered, and I could not hear what they said.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have known Mott about two years as a regular customer—he came with another young man—Harbord and Stevens used to come in the afternoon, and just before Christmas Stevens took to coming in the evening—I know Mott is a very respectable young man—I have seen him with a bag—I never saw Fryer talking to Stevens, or Harbord, or Bennett, but Stevens came several evenings, and, then they talked generally together in the bagatelle-room.

Cross-examined by Bennett. I will not swear to you, but I really think it was you who came on Sunday.

JAMES CARPENTER . I am a porter, of 42, Baldwin's Gardens, Deptford; I was formerly manager of St. Helena Gardens, Rotherhithe—I was training Stevens last November for a running match; he was then living in Theobald Street—I also met H. Harbord at the gardens—about 1st December I called at Stevens' house by appointment, and met an elderly shortish man there who Stevens spoke to, and I then spoke to Harbord, and I heard Stevens say to Harbord that he would rather smash the b—thing; we turned to go up New Kent Road, and Stevens said "What do you think? that man offered me 16s. a dozen for bottles worth 96s. a dozen—I made a communication to Inspector Phillips next morning, and afterwards went to Stevens' house, who showed me a bottle of pepsine, the cork of which was stamped "Morson, chemist"—I then found out Morson's name in the Directory, and made a communication to them, and on the Wednesday morning I went to Stevens again and found Harbord then—Stevens told me he was not going to the baths that day, he had to go to Holborn to get some morphia for his pal Mott—we went for a stroll, and he made, a communication to me—I went on the Thursday outside Henry Harbord's house; Stevens went in and fetched out a parcel of red precipitate and one of white calomel; Harbord followed him out—1s. a lb. was mentioned, and Stevens and Harbord spoke about a former case; they said they had been taken in custody for having some of. the stuff, and told the officers it was white and red lead—Harbord said "I spoke to the Magistrate like a lawyer, and old Francis jumped up and asked them to have the stuff kept in their possession another fortnight, and we were discharged, and on the very day that we went, and got the stuff, we sold if; and it was a very cold morning, we were walking up and down the road, and he was rubbing his hands, and Harbord and Stevens made an arrangement that Stevens was to go to Battersea"—I said "Shall you send a cart to bring the stuff away?"—Harbord said "I don't think Tom King would let us have two or three runs to night, but about Monday we shall be able to get between 2 and 3 cwt, and then we shall want a cart"—Stevens said that King was the night watchman at May and Baker's—I was to meet them next morning at Waterloo station, when they were to bring what they could get while the police were changing about 9.30 or 10 o'clock, and they had a place at Battersea where they could leave it for the night—I parted with them, and

communicated with Inspector Phillips, and next morning, Friday, December 5th, I went with Phillips and Sergeant Wheatley to "Waterloo station—we arrived at 8.30 or 8.40; they arrived by train, and I saw them go down the steps carrying baskets on their shoulders, and a black leather bag—Phillips and Wheatley took them into custody.

Cross-examined by MR. H. AVORY. I was acting under police directions—I never went to May and Baker's, nor was anyone sent down that I am aware of.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. I did not tell Stevens that I stole a book of gold and sold it for 15l. to egg him on to steal property—they are only 1s. 3d. each—I did not tell him that I used to rob my master of white lead; as to the pepsine you said that you would rather smash the b—things than sell them at that price—I have not been receiving money ever since then from May and Baker.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. I have seen Mott once; I do not know him—that was in 1876; I said 1877 before the Magistrate, but that was a mistake—I have looked at my book at home—I did not see him again till he was before the Magistrate; I then recognised him.

HENRY PHILLIPS (Police Inspector R). On 13th June, I heard that Henry Harbord and Stevens were in custody; I saw two bags of white powder weighing 281b. at the station; the prisoners were remanded and out on bail; they came to the station, signed the books, and gave the property up to them—I did not know what it was—on 2nd December, Carpenter made a statement to me in consequence of which I went to Waterloo Station, on 5th December, at 8.30 a.m., with Sergeant Wheatley, and saw Henry Harbord and Stevens coming from the departure platform, one was carrying a bag, the other a basket; I said, "What have you here?"—Harbord said, "White lead"—I said, "That tale won't do this time; that's what you said last time at Greenwich"—I took them to Kennington Road Station; they were committed here for trial, and sentenced by the Recorder to five years' penal servitude each—I showed the stuff to Mr. Tryon who is here; I went to Harbord's lodging in New Kent Road and found a hamper which Wheatley will speak to; there were bottles there—I don't remember the name on them—the two bags taken at Waterloo Station weighed 1001b.—after the trial was over Stevens sent for me to Pentonville Prison and made a statement, and on 18th June, this year, I went with Mitchell to 16, Faulkner Street, searched a coal cellar, and found a 1001b. of red powder, and I found the earth in the garden discoloured with red powder—I was present on 13th July, when Wheatley read the warrant to Fryer, and he was taken to Bow Street; I went to May and Baker's the same night and read the warrant to King—he said, "All right"—while he was dressing he said, "I shall look well if I get as much as Harry Harbord. Perhaps other people will open their mouths and say what they don't know—I took Mott next day—he made no answer to the charge.

Cross-examined by MR. H. AVORY. I took a note of what King said, but have not got it here—I refreshed my memory with it before the Magistrate; I said there, "Perhaps some other people will open their mouths and say what they know now"—he said, "Someone," or "some other people"—it was not, "It will look well if I get five years for it like Henry Harbord did, for other people"—Carpenter acted under my directions—he was not exactly what we call a nose—no one was acting

but Wheatley and myself—no ono went to May and Baker's to see if they could get in.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. I have not received money from Carpenter—I believe he received a gratuity from these firms—I did not give Stevens money, I only paid him as a witness—your wife did not stop me giving her 10s., nor did I put it back into my purse—one of the partners gave her something at Southwork Police-court, as she was in such distress—your premises were not watched in December by my instructions—we had reasons for not doing so.

GEORGE WHEATLEY (Police Sergeant). I took Fryer—he said, "All right." I took William Harbord and read the warrant to him; he made no reply—at South wark Police-station Fryer said, "I am very sorry. I was never in a place like this before. I do not know what my friends will say I know I have done wrong; it is all through the others."—I took Bennett and read the warrant to him—he said, "All right. I suppose I shall hare to go with you now?" I said, "Yes." I arrested Henry Harbord in December, and found in his possession some powder, which turned out to be calomel—he said that it was white lead, which he had had from a man for a debt—I went to his house, 44, Montem Street, Old Kent Road, and found 81b. of red precipitate and a large empty bottle labelled "sulphate of quinine," a small bottle of quinine, and a small bottle of red precipitate—I went to 29, Theobald's Street, where Stevens lived, and found two bottles with "Morson & Son" on them, which Toman identified, and a hamper—they were given to the prosecutors.

Cross-examined by Bennett. Your papers were given up to your wife and signed for.

THOMAS TYRA . I am one of the firm of May and Baker, manufacturing chemists, of Gorden Terrace, Battersea—we have been so 25 years—we have large premises—this (produced. is a plan of them (describing it)—there is a lamp at the corner of the premises, and a person coming from the outside could see whether it was alight or not—it is usually lighted. The prisoner King has been our night watchman since 1876, at 20s. or 30s.a week—Henry Harbord was in our service up to September, 1876—we had every confidence in King; he had access to all parts of the premises which were not locked at night—he had access to the red and white precipitate and to the lamps—they are kept in boxes and in pans—I saw Stevens in prison—you go up six steps as you enter the office, and there are three doors and then another flight of steps, and that gets you into another part of the premises where the lamps are kept—there are some iron doors as you turn to the right, one door sliding horizontally and the other lifting up—that is where the precipitate is dried and kept—there is a shed in this corner on the left leading down to the river—King's hours were from 5.30 p.m. to 6.30 a.m.—he used to come on duty on Saturday at midday—on 5th or 6th December Inspector Phillips showed me two baskets containing about 281bs. of white powder, which was produced here in January. I examined it carefully; it was white calomel—we sell it wholesale; it was not completely manufactured; it was such as we were manufacturing in November and the beginning of December—it is our property—there are peculiarities in each person's manufacture—I immediately spoke to King who said that he had not seen Henry Harbord since he left the service, I think, but I am not quite sure; I know it was a remote time—I recollect

King having a bad leg in May, 1879—I know the date because I wrote an order in the order-book for some sarsaparilla—we had a man named Old I ke; and James Smith was in our service—white calomel was worth about 3s. per lb. then, bismuth from 6s. 10d. to 7s. 6d. per lb., of which there were on the premises some cwts.; and red precipitate, of the value of 3s. 2d. to 3s. 3d. per lb. at that time, but it has been as high as 6s. 6d.—if a person could sell it it 3s. 10d., I should consider it very cheap—we missed calomel, bismuth, and red precipitate during 1876—the lumps could be rolled and sifted, and then it would be saleable.

Cross-examined by MR. H. AVORY. Thomas and James Smith were in my service at the time Henry Harbord was there—King worked there a year and a half before we made him watchman; everybody knew that—men worked at night on an average three or four nights a Week—King's duty was to look over the premises generally, he had access everywhere—the entire property covers 2$ or 3 acres—King's duties would be all over the works—the premises open to the river on one side, but a wall 13 feet 6 inches high has existed for 12 or 15 months, and before that there was I fall cutting off the old shed—there perhaps would only be 2 feet 6 inches of wall in a very high tide—the gate at the chief entrance is 11 feet high, it has been altered more than 12 months—King had not charge of the keys of locked-up places—he also had the special duty, shared in by the other hands, of making mercury corks—I have known that to take eight hours, but the duty is not continuous—the fires have to be looked after constantly—we had the most implicit confidence in King, or we should not have left him there—before Stevens was tried in January, I mentioned to King a report I had heard about somebody being at the premises the night before; he said that somebody had been down inquiring for me—I heard nothing more about it—I have visited the plice at night over and over again, but I never found the gate open, a suffcient time always elapsed after I rang the bell for anybody to come; I heard his steps and he came from the right quarter as a rule—I always found King at his post—he had no intimation when I or my partner were coming—King was called as a witness for the proseoution on the former charge, and I heard him say on his oath that he knew nothing of the property being carried away, and never gave any away.

Cross-examined by Henry Harbord. I took stock myself in January with regard to the mercurials—I did not swear at Southwark that I took stock on 10th December, and missed 100 lbs. of calomel, nor did my partner—I took stock in January, 1880, and the profits were considerably short—I lost a great deal more than 3 lbs., or 8 cwt.—probably none of us were the better for the making of antimony, and I suffered with you.

Cross-examined. After the police took possession I examined the stock, and missed about 103 lbs. of calomel, value 15l. or 16l.—that has been going on ever since November—you can get from our place by rail to Waterloo station—I did not go round the works before post time, but I have been at 10, 11, and 12 o'clock, and again at 2 or 3 a.m.—the men came on for night duty at 6.80, and came back from supper about 10 o'clock.

ROBERT FAULMAN . I am manager to Morson and Son, chemists, of Southampton Row—Mott was in their service for a year or two packing up goods—he had access to the stock of the chemicals—Fryer has been there about the same time—Mott's duty was to weigh goods and put

them into bottles, and Fryer's to cork them and label them when they came down on the floor—Bennett was a partner—he had access to all the goods—at the end of September or the beginning of October I missed some opium, and about 100 ozs. of morphia were missed during October—Mott was stopped and searched in October, but nothing was found on him—I had missed nine ounces of morphia that day—we took stock every year—at the end of June and from 30th June to 25th October something like 200 ozs. were missing, and 60 or 70 lbs. of opium, but the opium extended longer back—I saw on the last trial the bottles taken from Stevens' lodging; one was pepsine with our label on it, and there were two empty pepsine lozenge bottles—they were our property—in consequence of a communication from Fryer's mother I went with her to the House of Detention and saw Fryer—she spoke first, and then he said "I know I have done wrong and I am willing to suffer for it, but I do not think I ought to be punished for what others have done—I did not take one-tenth part of what is mentioned—I asked him what he had taken—he said "Morphia, opium, iodine, and a small quantity of quinine," and that he had given them to Stevens—I asked him if he knew what Stevens did with it—he said he believed he sold it to a man named Freeman—I asked him if he worked with the others in taking the things out—he said "No, what he had done he had done on his own account"—he said that he did not go to Stevens in the first instance as Stevens had said, but he met him in a public-house—Mott was left alone on the first floor where the things are kept while the other men were at dinner, and Fryer and he on the ground floor, but not alone—the police shewed me a hamper with our private mark on it which they got at Stevens' lodging.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. Mott has been in the service about 12 months—we had a good character with him.

Cross-examined by Bennett. When we took stock the opium and morphia were weighed—the opium had been some months in the place—Mr. Morson did not take it out in a cab the day after it came in—you were discharged in September—I sent you a letter when the first trial was on and told you that if you still wanted a situation I would give you a character, because there was no suspicion on you then—you could take t hamper out without my knowledge—you went at 8.30 and I was not there till 9.30—other persons were there—I never saw you take a hamper out, but you had plenty of opportunities at dinner-time.

ALFRED CLUFF . I am in Morson and Son's service—on 12th November I went with Fryer and Mott to a coffee shop in Dean Street—while we were there Stevens came in—we were all talking and drinking together and left together.

Cross-examined by MR. FULTON. That was the place where Mott took his dinner.

Cross-examined by Fryer. I was with you the whole time and saw nothing wrong—Stevens met me in Holborn in September and asked me if I could get him any O P, meaning opium, as he had a good shop to get rid of it—I refused.

EDWARD LANE . I am in the service of the London Parcels Delivery Company—on 3rd September, 1879, I delivered a hamper addressed to Stevens, at 29, Theobald Street, New Kent Road; it was signed for "W. Stevens"—it came from Red Lion Street, Holborn.

JAMES DROVER BARNETT . I am a shorthand writer—I was present at the trial of Henry Harbord and William Stevens before the Recorder, in the adjoining Court—before the case was closed the counsel for the defence called William Harbord—he was sworn, and said, "I live at 53, Hope Street," &c (See Vol. 91, P. 426)—Thomas King was called for the prosecution, he said "I am night watchman," &c. (See Vol. 91, p. 425).

King and Henry Harbord received good characters.

Henry Harbord's defence. I was in May and Baker's service seven year, and knew every man in the service; King I only knew six months. I never paid him a halfpenny in my life, or asked him to steal anything for me. I took samples of calomel to my brother for him to sell. If I was robbing May and Baker should I take samples of their traveller and know tell the article can no more be sworn to than a miller could swear to a handful of flour. I am a worker of chemicals. Every particle of what Stevens has stated is wrong; I said I would not have anything to do with anything that was on the cross. Baker said "I mean to get up something for somebody," and when I saw the rules in the cell at Pentonville I thought he meant to write to the Home Secretary; I did not think he meant to bring innocent men into it If I had anything to reveal against his character I would do it, but I won't convict an innocent man. Mott was a bosom friend of Stevens, and the other man I have never seen in my life They swear to a bottle without a string or paper upon it They found chemical apparatus at my place; I can cheat the public and the revenue, but where I make 1l., May and Baker make 1,000l."

Fryer's defence. "I saw Stevens two or three times in Holborn, when I went to dinner with Mott, but never saw anything between them to give me suspicion. I called at a public house one evening to see Mott play at bagatelle, and Stevens came in; he left with me, and asked where I worked, and pumped me to see if there was half a chance of getting me to do wrong. He said 'Your people keep opium?' I said 'They keep a small quantity.' He said 'Can you get me some?' I said 'Certainly not.' Previous to that such a thought never crossed my mind, but he talked me over, and I yielded to the temptation to bring him one or two pounds of opium. He gave me 6s. for 1 1/2 I got him several other little things, and got 2l. 15s. or 3l. from him. I admit I did wrong; I did rob my master to that extent, but am innocent of any conspiracy. Stevens admitted that I did not send parcels to his house, and if it had not been for him such a thought would never have entered into my mind. I was brought up respectably. I yielded to the temptation only considering it a petty theft; there was no conspiracy whatever. Stevens is a very bad man, and would lead anybody to do wrong."

KING, W. HARBORD, FRYER, and MOTT— GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.

H. HARBORD— GUILTY .— Eleven Days' Imprisonment in Newgate.


Reference Number: t18800803-455

455. THOMAS BENNETT (29), was again indicted for stealing 321b. of tartaric acid and other drugs, the goods of William Morson and others his masters.


Reference Number: t18800803-456

456. WILLIAM BARLOW (17) , Maliciously wounding John Stevens.

MR. SAMPSON Prosecuted.

JOHN STEVENS . I am 17 years old on 27th July—I was at work in

the docks with the prisoner—we had a quarrel, and I struck him a slight blow on the arm with a packing cap, which is like a coalhammer pad—he said, "I will stick this b—knife into you if you don't leave off," and struck me on my arm with a penknife—I picked up a bit of wood and hit at him, but I do not know whether I hit him or not—I ran away, and he ran after me and stabbed me in my back with the same knife—I took my coat off, and directly he saw the blood he ran away—it was a four-bladed knife with a white handle.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not hit you on the head with a binder.—the piece of wood I picked up was not a binder.

EDWARD DUNN . I was in the dockyard with Barlow and Stevens—they were jawing at each other, and Stevens struck the prisoner a slight blow with a packing-cap, and then the prisoner stuck a penknife into his arm—after that he said, "I will stick this b—knife into you"—I did not hear him say "if you don't leave off"—Stevens picked up a piece of wood, made a slight blow at the prisoner, and missed him—Stevens ran away, and the prisoner stuck the knife into his back, and still held it in his hand—Stevens started on, took off his coat, turned up his sleeves, and when the prisoner saw the blood he ran away.

Cross-examined. I did not see the prisoner hit you with a stick or touch you.

ARTHUR VOSPER . I live at 6, Sayer's Place, Botherhithe—I saw Stevens hit the prisoner with a stick on the arm, and the prisoner stabbed him in the arm with a penknife and said that he would stick the bleeding knife into him again—Stevens then hit him on the arm with a binder; he missed his head, and I saw it fall on the prisoner's arm as he held it up—he than stabbed Stevens in his back—Stevens took his coat off, and when the prisoner saw the blood he ran away with the knife in his hand.

BENJAMIN BROWNING . I am Divisional Surgeon of Police at Eotherhithe—on 27 July I saw Stevens at the station; he was bleeding from an incised wound in the fleshy part of the back of his arm, two or three inches long, which had exposed the muscles; also from a punctured wound on his back, which had penetrated to the backbone, and then glanced off to the left for quite two inches—he lost more than a pint of blood—I dressed the wounds, and they are now healed—he has sustained no serious injury except from loss of blood.

FRANK BRIERS (Police Sergeant R). I took the prisoner on 28th July, and told him the charge—he said, "I did do it—I am very sorry—they knocked me about—I told them I should do it if they did not leave me alone—he said that he threw the knife away in the docks.

Prisoner's Defence. There were two of them beating me. I had the knife in my hand. It was shoved into me, and I stuck it into him. I did not know what I was doing. I am very sorry for it.

GUILTY of a Common Assault.— Twelve Month's Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18800803-457

457. ALFRED HENBACH (42) , Unlawfully attempting to obtain a quantity of hats by false pretences.

MR. PURCELL Prosecuted.

CHARLES HAGAN (Police Inspector). I took the prisoner at the Cafe De L'Etoile, Windmill Street, and told him I had a warrant against him for obtaining goods from Leon Kay—he said, "What of that? I can return the

hats, but I shall first have to make inquiry where they now are."—I took him to the station and found on him 2s. and some halfpence—He gave his address as 55, Eversleigh Road, Battersea—I went there and found that he had a room there at 2s. 6d. per week—I found there a quantity of correspondence and this hat (produced.)—the papers are headed "G Paull & Co., musical string manufacturers, 17, Surrey Bow, Blackfriars. To Mr. Leon Kay," &c.—the correspondence extends for six years back, and it is with various firms, ordering goods and showing that goods have ten sold—complaints have been made by Paull & Co., and I have made inquiries about it.

FRANCOIS GAUTIER (Interpreter). I am agent to Leon Kay, of Paris, a bat manufacturer—I received this post-card, marked A (This being interpreted was a request to send some sample hats to G. Paull & Co.)—we afterwards received this letter, asking for specimens of white hats with plush edges—we had not sent any letter before that was received—we then receded this letter of the 24th June (Acknowledging receipt of samples and complaining that they were damaged in part and would be returned, and ordaring some other hats and 33 dozen feathers)—after hat I came to London with about 40£ worth of samples—I went to 17, Surrey Row and found no one there—I did not leave the goods—the value of the goods ordered was 2,000l.—I gave information to the police—these goods (produced.) are part of the samples sent—I afterwards received this letter.

(This woe from the prisoner, stating that he did not intend to defraud, and was quite ready to return the samples if his expenses were paid for the carriage.)

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The first post-card was addressed to Mr. Kay's traveller, Mr. Frego—I am not Mr. Frego—You didn't know the name of the firm, and therefore you sent the post-card to the traveller, who brought it to the firm, but all the other correspondence was in the flune of Kay—we sent the goods because we believed your house was nlrent—some time ago there was a house of Paull & Co. in London, who did a great deal of business—I never saw you in France—we sent you the goods at 30 days net—we wrote to you saying that the agent would cell at your place, to whom you could return the samples—I am the agent; I called two or three times and could not find you—I did Hot leave any message, because the landlord told me that you had left the last three years.

Re-examined. I believe that Paull & Co. were a genuine firm, and were buyers in hats, and that the house was solvent.

HENRY STONE . I am a bill-poster and army accoutrement maker, of 17, Surrey Row—I have known the prisoner five or six years—he lodged with me about three years ago in the first floor front room, and paid 4s. a week—he remained a month or five weeks—he left because the room was not large enough, but I gave him permission to have his letters sent there—letters and parcels of toys used to come—he received a letter and a postcard, which was returned—he said he expected a parcel, and Home hate came.

Cross-examined. Your wife's name was Paull—she has been dead about three years—you received the last goods about 12 or 18 months ago—you did not instruct me to say that you had gone, but I did say so—that was on the Sunday, and we do not do business on she Sunday—I was at

dinner, and was annoyed—I should have lent you money if you had asked me.

Re-examined. I saw a Frenchman who came and declined to do business on Sunday—he asked whether Paull was in the way; I said he had gone away, and I did not know where he lived—this letter is in my writing; "Dear friend, I received your letter and order for 9s. There has been four parties of Frenchmen called on me for the name of Paull. I said I know nothing of you. There was a workman came about music strings for you. Yours, H. Stone"—I bent that to the prisoner—when he sent me an order there was a stamped envelope inside, and I put my letter into it.

HERBERT HUMBERT . I am a hat manufacturer, of 58, Red Cross Street—I have known the prisoner five or six years—he worked for me and sold hats—about the beginning of July he brought me two parcels of hats and asked me if I could give him an order for them. I said no, they were not good enough—he asked me, to let him leave the parcel there as it was raining, and he did so—I did not see him again—these post-cards are in my writing—Inspector Hagan afterwards came with the hats.

Cross-examined. The hate were brought to me merely to order there—there was nothing irregular in that—you told me that you had written to Paris for them to be taken back, and were waiting for the agent's address, as you had been with them to several warehouses and not got an order—I would trust you up to 15l. or 20l., but not for 70l. or 80l.—I have done business with you for some time, and you have always paid—no agent need have a warehouse—you are also a musical teacher—I knew you an Paull as well as Henbach—I trusted you as Henbach.

Re-examined. He and I have not been on intimate terms—Gautier called on me with some Frenchmen—he did not ask whether I had got the hats, or speak about hats, but I had got them on my counter—I did not know they were his—I knew the prisoner carrying on business as Paull and Co.

CHARLES HAGAN (Re-examined.). I searched the prisoner's lodgings, and found about 100 pawn-tickets relating to watches, chains, and other articles, down to flat-irons and chemises—I found three diaries showing that he had been pledging nearly every day for three years, from 220 yards of silk at 17l. 10s. down to very small articles—I also found correspondence from several parties on the Continent, showing that he bad been obtaining goods from them, and this letter from the last witness. (This stated. "Don't go to Surrey Row, as I know inquiries were made yesterday, and I shall feel myself compromised. Further particulars verbally.—H. B.")

Witnesses for the Defence.

WILLIAM BLAESER . I am a baker, of 278, Waterloo Road—I have known the prisoner three or four years—my real name is Klishmidt, but I go in the name of my stepfather, Blaeser—I accompanied you to the police-station when you were taken—You asked me to go the first thing next morning, 13th July, to 58, or 59, Redcross Street, to Mr. Humbert, and fetch two boxes of ladies' hats which was there in your name, and bring them to the police-court—I went there, hut could not find Mr. Humbert—I came to the police-court without the hats—on the 15th July, when you were remanded, you told me to go round to Mr. Humbert because you did not want him to get into trouble, and get the hats—you told me to go to a tavern in Jewin Street, where I could find him at lunch in the bar.

Cross-examined. This printed form (produced.) is not signed by me—it is an order for a milk churn—I think it is the prisoner's writing, and is signed in my name—I did not authorise him to write it—I did not carry on business at 207, Waterloo Road as a tin and metal worker.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he had sent out post-cards to various firms in Paris, and received an answer from Mr. Kay, offering him goods, from whom he afterwards received samples, but was unable to sell them, and declined to keep them, and wrote for the address of the house in london where he might deliver them up, which was never sent.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18800803-458

458. ALBERT HENRY TEMPLEMAN (18) PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 40l., with intent to defraud. (The prosecutor promised to take him back into his service.)— Three Months' Imprisonment. And

Reference Number: t18800803-459

459. FREDERICK STELLING (20) to stealing a pony and cart of Fordham Carham, his master; also a house and cart and harness, the property of James Ketley, after a previous conviction.— [Pleaded Guilty: See original trial image.] Five Years' Penal Servitude.


Reference Number: t18800803-460

460. ROBERT GLINDE CULMORE (64) and JANE CULMORE (65) , for the wilful murder of Mary Bridge.

GUILTY .— DEATH the sentence has since been commuted to Penal Servitude for Life. .


Reference Number: t18800803-461

461. EMILY SCOTT, Unlawfully neglecting to supply her servant, Helena Houseman, with proper food, whereby her life was endangered.

GUILTY .— Two Years Imprisonment.


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