CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT
FOURTH SESSION, HELD JANUARY 31ST, 1876.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND, BY
JAMES DROVER BARNETT
Short-hand Writers to the Court,
ROLLS CHAMBERS, No. 89, CHANCERY LANE.
THE POINTS OF LAW AND PRACTICE
REVISED AND EDITED, BY
EDWARD T. E. BESLEY, ESQ.,
OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BARRISTER-AT-LAW.
STEVENS & SONS, 119, CHANCERY LANE.
On the Queen's Commission of
OYER AND TERMINER AND GAOL DELIVERY
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, January 31st, 1876, and following days,
BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM JAMES RICHMOND COTTON , M.P., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir WILLIAM BALIOL BRETT, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; The Hon. Sir WILLIAM VENTRIS FIELD, Knt, one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN , Knt., ROBERT BESLET , Esq., THOMAS SCAMBLER OWDEN , Esq., WILLIAM MCARTHUR , Esq., M.P., and GEORGE SWAN NOTTAGE , Esq., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., Judge of the Sheriff's Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
COTTON, MAYOR. FOURTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
NEW COURT.—Monday, January 31st, 1876.
SARAH ANN WILLIAMS . My husband keeps the Crown, at Twickenham on 11th January, about 3 p.m., I served the prisoner with 2d. worth of gin—he handed me a florin—I told him it was bad—he said "Is it"—I said "Yes, there are a great many about, and I must be careful"—I took it to my husband, and gave the prisoner in charge.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I did not put it in the till, it was never out of my hand till I gave it to my husband.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. My wife did not hand me the florin out of the till.
WILLIAM TURNER . I keep the Royal Oak, at Camberwell, about a quarter of a mile from the Crown—on 11th January about 2.40 I served the prisoner with two penny cigars—he gave me a florin, and asked for a-lucifer—he saw me trying it in the detector—I made a dent in it, and gave him 1s. 10d. change—I put the florin on the shelf—I afterwards looked out at the door, and saw him with another man, and a third a little further on—I shortly afterwards gave him in custody with the second florin.
Cross-examined. I did not stop you at first, becase I was not quite certain it was bad—my wife afterwards placed it by the side of another, and yours was found to be bad.
the prisoner—he was told the charge—he did not deny it—I found on him 2s. 1d. good money—I took him to the station, and as we passed the Royal Oak Turner spoke to me, told me in the prisoner's hearing that he had passed a bad florin there, and handed me this florin (produced)—he said that he had not been in the house, but Turner said that he was the man.
GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction for felony in October, 1874, to which he PLEADED GUILTY**— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.
MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN HARRISSON . My husband is a carpenter, and I keep a tobacconist's shop at Fulham—on 18th January about 5.20 I served Robinson with half an ounce of tobacco which came to 2d.—he put down 1s., and I gave him 6d. and id. change, and he left—as he left my little boy was coming in, and I gave it to him to take it next door, and get it tested—he brought it back bent—I was then at the Princess Royal, and I said to Robinson who was there "You are the man who gave me the bad shilling"—I think he said that he did not, Smith was with him—I gave them in charge with the shilling.
Cross-examined by Robinson. I am sure you are the man who was in the' shop.
GEORGE FREDERICK HARRISSON . I am a son of the last witness—she gave me this shilling and I took it next door, and saw it tried and bent in a tester—my mother told me to run after the man, aad I did so.
WILLIAM KIRBY . I keep the Prince of Wales at Walham Green—on 18th January about 5.20 I served Smith with half a pint of beer—he gave me 1s.—I tried it with my teeth, and found it bad—I could tell by the grit—I told him it was bad—he said that he did not know it—I sent for a constable, and in the meantime Robinson came in and spoke to him, but I could not hear what he said—Mrs. Harrison followed Robinson in, and said "You are the man who gave me a bad shilling for half an ounce of tobacco"—he said that he had not been to the shop—I gave the bad shilling to the constable.
WILLIAM WEBB . I am a dairyman at Blantyre Street, Chelsea—on 18th January between 5 and 6 o'clock I was in the bar of the Princess Royal on the other side of a partition, and heard the landlord say "This won't do, this is bad, this is the second I have taken to-day"—I ran round to the door, and saw Smith—the landlord sent for a constable, and in the meantime Robinson came in, and called for half a pint of porter, he went up to Smith and said "Holloa old fellow" Smith said "Holloa"—I did not hear anything else—I saw Mrs. Harrison come in, and saw the prisoner taken—I knew them as companions for a considerable time hawking turnips and carrots with a barrow, they are always together.
JOHN TITMARSH . I am a bricklayer of Holbrook Cottages, Walham Green—on 18th January, between 5 and 6 o'clock, I was in the Princess Royal, and saw Smith come in for Rome tobacco and beer, be gave a bad shilling, and five minutes afterwards Robinson came in for half a pint of beer, he went up to Smith and asked if it was all right—Smith shook his
head—Mrs. Harrisson then came in, and said that he had given her a bad shilling, and they were given in custody.
WILLIAM CHARLES FOX . I am a waterman of 36, Riley Street, Cee morne, and ray father keeps the Ship—on 22nd November, between 11 and 12 o'clock the prisoners came there, and Robinson asked for half an ounce of tobacco, and put down a florin—I said "This is a bad one," he said "No it is not, I took it from the gas factory"—I said "I have got no change, will you go next door for it"—he said "Never mind, give me coppers"—I gave him the change in coppers, and put the florin on a corner of the shelf; I showed it to my father when he came home, and marked it—this florin produced is not the same. (Officer No. J 355 stated that this was the florin the father gave him). I have seen the prisoners going about together.
WILLIAM HASWELL (Policeman J 47). On 22nd November I was at the station when the last witness and his father came there and gave information—the florin was produced, and I told the father he had better mark it and keep it—he did not do so in my presence, he took it home—he is not here.
WILLIAM JONES . I keep a coffee stall, and live at Flood Street, Chelsea—I have frequently seen the prisoners pass my stall of a morning—about two months ago Robinson came to my stall about 4 o'clock, and I served him with a cup of coffee and a piece of cake which came to 1d., he gave me a florin, I put it to my teeth, and said "This is a bad one, please put that coffee and cake down"—he said "No, I will pay for it," and he gave me 1d. and took the florin back—I said "You are the man who gave me a bad shilling six or eight months ago"—he said "No."
GEORGE SMITH (Policeman J 96). I was called to the Princess Royal, and found the prisoner there—Mr. Kirby gave Smith in charge, and gave me this shilling (produced)—Smith said that he was not aware it was bad, he had taken it for wages—I found on him 1s. 1 1/2d.
CHARLES COLLINS . I was called to the Princess Royal, and Mrs. Harrisson gave Robinson into my custody with the shilling (produced)—I found on him four sixpences, a shilling, and 14d. in bronze—all good.
RALPH WESTON . I am a grocer of 81, Chenies Street, Chelsea—I have seen the prisoners frequently together—on a Saturday night about two months ago, about 10 p.m. I served Robinson with some cheese—he gave me a bad half-crown—I told him it was bad; it bent easily—I afterwards described him to a constable.
Smith's Defence. Iam continually about with Robinson, but I was not with him on the night he went into the public house; it is the first bad. shilling I ever had in my life.
GUILTY **—They both PLEADED GUILTY to previous convictions, Smith at Clerkenwell in April, 1874, and Robinson at this Court in December, 1870— Two Years' Imprisonment each.
MR. J.P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; MR. T. COLE appeared for Deval, MR. M. WILLIAMS for George, and MR. BESLEY for Goodall;
RICHARD YOUNG . I am head warehouseman in the employ of the London and Manchester Plate Glass Company, Whitefriars, and at Manchester—I have known Goodall as a customer for three years—the other two prisoners were warehousemen under me—on 3rd January, about 6 p.m., this invoice was handed in by one of our clerks, it is in Goodall's writing, but it is on one of our bills—here are various widths on it making eight dozen and two plates of glass altogether—on receiving that order I handed out all the goods named on it with the assistance of the two prisoners at the front door and from there they would be lowered into a wooden horse placed there, and I told Goodall that that was all—he stood there and saw them handed out—there were also twenty-eight glass plates there 47 by 37 value about 30s. each—I counted them carefully—I then went to the bottom of the warehouse to wash previous to going home—I was away about five minutes—I then returned and counted the plates and there were only twenty-four—the prisoners were then loading Goodall's van—I closed the warehouse, communicated with Mr. Clark, and took a cab to Goodall's premises—I waited outside thinking he had not arrived—Mr. Clark went for a constable and I waited outside while they went in—he came out with Goodall—I saw Goodall and an assistant unloading the van—they took the glass into the warehouse at the back and I saw the four plates of glass taken from the top of the van—the plates weighed about 401bs. each.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. Another van had been loaded just before and had left—we do a great deal of business—Goodall has done business with us for some years—I was examined at the police-court on 4th January; Mr. Johnson was examined there and there was a remand till the 6th when we were both examined again—Johnson was also examined on 13th January but I was not.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Mr. Clark was the manager of the concern, he is here—an invoice and receipt were taken from Goodall's pocket after he was given in custody—there is no water at the wharf, but there was previous to the Thames Embankment—the eight dozen plates were small not bigger than this book—I did not see them put into the van—Goodall's is a covered van—a person not engaged in loading it could see what was put into it—I went out ten minutes afterwards and got a cab—it was about 3 miles to Goodall's premises—it was quite dark—Iwas outside when Goodall was brought out.
THOMAS GEORGE JOHNSON . I am a glass cutter in the prosecutors' employ—I received instructions from Mr. Clark, and on 3rd January, I was with Deval and George all day, and about 6 o'clock George said "Here is Goodall, as soon as you see a chance slip out as soon as you can"—(I saw Goodall drive his van up about 5.40)—I said "All right," and a few minutes afterwards George said "Dick is washing; touch up"—he meant "Be quick"—I said "Wait a minute I will go and see where Dick is" and went down the warehouse—the van was empty then and while I was down there I saw George take out some plates of glass 47 by 37 inches, I cannot say how many, but I went and said to George "How many have you got on?"—he said "Four"—the small plates which are in the invoice were outside on a place called the horse—I saw Goodall tying the tarpaulin down—the van contains frames which slides in and out on wheels—it is not easy to see what is in it when the tailboard is up, nor what is on the top when the tarpaulin is on—I did not speak to Goodall—I heard Goodall say to George "1 think there is some one dodging about at the top, I will
go and see," and he went away out of our yard towards the top of the stairs, and I went and spoke to George who told me he had gone up to see whether there was anybody at the top, and then Goodall came up and spoke to George, but I do not know what he said—I asked George and he said that Goodall should say it was all right—I then spoke to Mr. Clark.
Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. When George said "Here is Goodall, as soon as you see a chance slip out as quick as you can"—he meant take out some glass to put on Goodall's van, to steal it—I said "All right"—I have received money from Mr. Clark's instructions for glass which has been taken out—I had no conversation with George about any money on this occasion—I said before the Magistrate "I was two or three yards from the tail of the van when I spoke to George; George asked me to share in the money which was forthcoming from these plates"—I also said "George said they should get some plates out, and I should stand in, when I asked him how many they had got out, he was standing by himself "—I had received money on 20th December, and on the Wednesday after Christmas.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLET. I received 7s. and 5s., but Goodall had nothing to do with those transactions—Goodall could not hear what took place between me and George—when he was taking down the tarpaulin he was in front of the van tying it down and could not see what was in it—I did not mention about the "Dodging about" on the first occasion, it slipped my memory, but I did on the third occasion—I thought of it after I had been examined and cross-examined—I was only asked one question on the second occasion.
By THE COURT. I told Mr. Clark I expected money, because the glass had gone away, and that I expected to share in it; I told him everything—George asked me several times to share in the money when I detected the goods going out and I told Mr. Clark—it was not when I was two or three yards from the van that he asked me to share in it; he had asked me previously—he said in the day time that he expected somebody down, and he should get some out and chance it.
MR. WILLIAMS here stated thai George would withdraw his plea and PLEAD GUILTY.
WILLIAM CLABK . I am the manager of this company—about 20th December, I gave instructions to Johnson to watch and to communicate to me what took place—he had been about six months in my employ—on the night of the 3rd, Mr. Young, made a communication to me and we went in a cab together to Goodall's address, Hackney Road—I left Young outside and went in—the shop was open—Goodall came out into the street, I was speaking to a policeman, and directly he saw me he went into his shop and—I went in and gave him in charge at once—he had no means of communicating with anyone from the time I gave him in custody till he left—I tools:" him to the station and then went back and saw the van unloaded—the glass was taken out and I can identify it by my private mark.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Goodall has been buying of me for three years and has very likely paid me 1,600l. in that time—I am aware that he had nothing to do with the matters of 20th and 29th December—I did not go to his place and wait while I sent for a constable; I picked up the constable on the road—we waited outside ten minutes and found then that the van was in the yard and the horse in the stable—Goodall said at the station-house "If there is any glass there I know nothing about it, you can
go and see for yourself"—I did not say "I will give him in charge and take the chance of it"—I did not say "I shall give you in custody"—I said to Thomas, the constable, "I shall give him in charge for felony"—Goodall did not say that he knew nothing about the goods except what he had bought.
CHARLES THOMAS (Policeman G 84). On 3rd January, about 6.35 p.m., Mr. Young came up to me in High Street, Shoreditch, and I—went with him and Mr. Clark to the Hackney Road—I waited till Goodall went into the shop and then I went with Mr. Clark and he gave him in custody—I brought him outside the shop and he said "If there is anything on the van that belongs to you go and see for yourself, as I know nothing at all about it"—he did not do so, and I took Goodall to the station, and Mr. Clark left Young in charge of the goods—I went to the Hackney Road and from there to the Fleet Street station—Mr. Clark identified the goods.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I rode in the cab both ways—I was on duty, and Mr. Young told me he wanted me and I went with him—I did not get into the cab then, I walked, it was not 100 yards—I got into the cab after the man was in custody—he said that he knew nothing about it—I did not hear Mr. Clark say "I shall give you in custody and chance it."
The certificate of incorporation of the company was here put in.
Deval and Goodall received good characters.
DEVAL and GEORGE— GUILTY — One Years' Imprisonment.
GOODALL— NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Monday, January 31st, and Tuesday, February 1st, 1876.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
153. NORAH LYNN and JOHN WILMORE , were indicted for stealing a teapot and a quantity of china figures and other property, of William Severin Salting, the master of Lynn, and ALFRED CLARK (32), and DAVID JEWELL (26) , Feloniously receiving a portion of the said property knowing it to have been stolen.
LYNN and WILMORE PLEADED GUILTY at the November Sessions. (See
MR. STRAIGHT and J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; MR. SERJEANT
PARRY with MR. F. H. LEWIS appeared for Jewell; and MR. MONTAGU
WILLIAMS for Clark.
WILLIAM SEVERIN SALTING . I live at 56, Green Street, Grosvenor Square, when in town—in May last I left town and went to Maidenhead—before leaving I locked up various articles of china in my dining-room and took the key with me—on making occasional visits to town from May up to the end of September I placed other articles in the dining-room and again took the key with me—I left the prisoner Norah Lynn in charge of the house; she was the sole person in the house in my employ—I returned to town for the winter on 18th October—on going into the dining-room I missed a great number of articles that I had placed there—in consequence of that my suspicions were aroused—I received information on the 19th and went to Mr. Wertheimer's in New Bond Street, a well-known dealer in china—I had an interview with him between 4 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon, in consequence of which I went on to the shop of the prisoner Jewell, 496, Oxford Street—I there saw a shopman who I had never seen before to my knowledge
and I don't think he knew me—I asked him if he had got any good china for sale—he said "Would you buy a very fine Bristol cup and saucer," which he produced—I said "This is very fine; what is the price of it"—he said "100l."—I said that was rather a high price—he said that was the usual price that was given for them, and he produced a book in which there was an entry opposite the words "Bristol cup and saucer" of 100l. or 100 guineas—I had very little doubt that it was my Bristol cup and saucer—there are one or two others in existence—there are five in existence—this (produced) is the cup and saucer—I gave 78l. 15s. for it at Christie and Mason's sale on 10th May last year—I then said to the shopman "Have you got anything else in Bristol"—he went to the same safe, which he unlocked, and produced these four Bristol figures—he said the price of them was 20l. for the two Cupids and 8l. for the other pair of figures with musical instruments—I said "They are very fine; where is Mr. Jewell"—he said that he had gone out, but he would be back in a few minutes—I at once-identified these as my property—I then walked round the shop and saw a Bow figure in a cupboard and two blue oriental plates on a side table—1 at once knew them to be mine—I then went away and went to the police-station to engage the services of Marshall, the detective—I returned to Jewell's shop in about half an hour, leaving Marshall outside in the cab—I went into the shop and was met at the door by Jewell—I said "Mr. Jewell, you have got a very fine Bristol cup and saucer; would you let me see it?"—he replied "I cannot; it is sold"—I said "Indeed, that is curious, because I saw it only half an hour ago; it was offered to me for sale—would you let me see the four Bristol figures?"—he said "I can't show you those either, they are all sold," and he then pointed to a gentleman at the end of the shop and said "This is the purchaser, Mr. Mendoza;" and Mr. Mendoza said "Yes; I have bought the lot"—I said to Mr. Mendoza "What did you give for the lot?" he said "I bought them in a lot for 110l."—I said "Would you let me see them again"—he said "I cannot, as they are gone away; I am going to submit them to a gentleman in Liverpool"—I asked Jewell if he thought Mendoza would resell them to me at a profit—Mendoza replied that he could not sell them to me as he had to submit them to Mr. Matheson—I believe he is a collector in Liverpool and an M.P.—I asked Jewell what he had given for the cup and saucer and where he had got it from—he said he had bought it from a man in the street, who went about as a traveller, and that he had only given 2l. for it as he did not know it was Bristol—I then looked round the shop to see if there was anything else of my property and I saw the two blue plates which I said I would purchase, and the Bow figure which I also agreed to purchase—the price named was 8l. for the Bow figure and 10s. for the plates—I said I should like to see the Bristol cup and saucer and the four figures; Mendoza said "I am not going to show them to you at this time of night, I will show them to you tomorrow"—I had the articles I purchased for 8l. 10s. put in paper, and they were carried to the cab door by Jewell—when there I said "Mr. Jewell' I am very sorry to have to inform you that the Bristol cup and saucer and the four figures as well as these plates and figure that you have put in paper, have been stolen from me"—he replied "I was not aware they were stolen"—I asked who he got them from—he said "From a man in the streets"—I asked if he had had anything else from the same man—he replied "I had a lot, of rubbish from him the other day which I don't know if
it belongs to you"—I said I should like to see it—he then lighted up the back part of the shop, and took me to a small table on which I saw about 20 articles of small value, all of which I recognised as my property with the exception of four small pieces of china at the corners—I then said to Jewell "I must call some one in to identify these articles "and I called in Marshall—I then made a list of the articles on the table belonging to me, and gave Jewell notice not to part with them or with the Bristol cup and saucer, and the four Bristol figures, and I then again asked him the name of the man he had brought them from—he said he did not recollect, or he did not know—I then asked him to produce his day book—he produced it rather unwillingly; he did not produce it at first, he did afterwards—he said "I don't know that I am obliged to show it to you"—he said to the shopman "Here, can't you find that card that the man left," and then he said "I think it was Clark, or something, or some name like that"—Marshall had told him when he came in, that he was a detective officer, and I think he asked him one or two questions, he asked him where he got the china from—he said he bought them from a man who came in as a traveller, but he did not remember his name—this is the book he subsequently produced. The following entries were read from the day book—"24th September, 1875, Bristol group, 11l. 10s.; Chelsea figures, 14l. 1st October, Clark, china, 7l. 10s.; Mirror, 1l. 10s. 4th October, total 17l. 10s. 5th October, Clark, china, 4l. 6th October, Clark, china, 12l. 11th October, Clark, china, 10l. 10s. and 10l. 12th October, Clark, china, 5l., making a total of 92l."—I said "Can't you find the card "the shopman said—"I can't find it, but I will have it for you to-morrow morning if I have to sit up all night"—before I left I said "Mr. Jewell I give you notice not to part with any of these things on the table or with any of the things I have seen to-day belonging to me"—he said he would not—I said to Mendoza "Cannot you show them to me to night" he said "They are at my house, and I am not going to be disturbed at this time of night, if you will come to-morrow morning I will show you what I bought"—I then left—next morning the 20th, about 10.45 I went again to Jewell's shop in company with detective serjeant Butcher—I saw Jewell and Mendoza there—I said to Jewell "Have you found the card "he said "I have" and produced it—this is it. (Read: "Alfred Clark purchaser of ladies' and gentlemen's, and children's wardrobes, 76, Crawford Street, Marylebone. Every description of carpets bought, boots, shoes, &c. Ladies attended at their own residence.") He said "This is the card that I promised to find for you"—I then said to Mendoza "I should like to come and see the Bristol cup and saucer, and the four Bristol figures that you promised to show me"—Mr. Jewell was there—Mendoza said "Well the fact is I have been talking to my lawyer, and under his advice I don't mean to show them to you"—that was the gist of what he said—Butcher said that he was a detective officer, and he had better be careful, and he said "Won't you take me round to your house to show me the things"—he said "No, not if you wait for a week"—Butcher then said "Well, Mr. Mendoza, I know your address, and I shall go round to it myself"—upon that he said "Well, if you are determined to go I shall go with you"—we then all three, Butcher, Mendoza and I, went to Mendoza's house, leaving Jewell in the shop—Mendoza's house was 27, Bloomsbury Square, about 200 or 300 yards off, we were shown up to a room on the first floor—it was a sort of picture shop—we remained there about a quarter of an hour—Mendoza left us when he took us into the room, and returned in about a quarter of an hour
bringing the Bristol cup and saucer—we then returned with it to Jewell's shop—I think Mendoza went in first, and he and Jewell talked privately together, they merely whispered together—Jewell then went to a safe and produced the small pair of Bristol figures, the same I had first seen—I said "These are my property, but I want to see the large pair of Cupids"—Jewell said "I can't show them to you, as they are not here"—I asked him where they were—he said "They will be back by-and-bye"—I said "Who has got them?"—he said "Well, they are out on approbation"—I said "Did not I tell you last night that you were not to part with them; who has got them on approbation?"—he said he did not know the man's name or address—I then said "Do you mean to tell me that you sent out figures worth 20l. with a man whose name and address you don't even know"—I think Butcher said so too—he then said "Well, I think the man's name is George, but I don't know where he lives"—I said "Well, I shall go to George and see if I can see them"—George bad showed me that same pair of figures some days before and had left his card with me, I did not know him before he called at my house; that was before I knew of the robbery—I did go to George's, 124, Albany Street, Regent's Park—I did not see him or the figures, I came back in about half an hour and I then saw the two Cupids on the table—I said "Those are my property, what I wanted to see"—I said I had been to George's and I had not seen them—that was practically the end of the matter on that day—I knew Jewell before this, I had been in his shop before—I had not had any dealings with him—to the best of my belief he was at Christie's sale when I purchased the cup and saucer; there was a good deal of competition for it, it was handed round, I bid for it myself and it was knocked down tome—after the warrant had been granted I went with Butcher to Jewell's premises—I was first of all shown round by the shopman—I had previously received this letter. (Read: "Oct. 20, 1875. Dear Sir,—I have induced Mr. Mendoza to resell to me the goods I sold him, which are now on my premises, and which you can inspect in order to see if they are any portion of the goods you state have been stolen from you. Yours, &c, David Jewell.") Jewell was not there when I went with Butcher, he came in afterwards—I went round and found a large number of articles belonging to me placed on a table at the back of the shop—I made a list of them at the time and have it here—I had not seen any of those articles on my previous visits to Jewell's—I put the prices against the pieces, they are as near as I can say the actual amount paid for them; the total amount is 472l. 5s.—that is without the Bristol cup and saucer and the four figures, the Bow figure and the plates—I paid 20l. for the pair of Cupids and 10l. or ten guineas for the other pair of Bristol figures—for the Bow figure with another I paid 10l. and 1l. for the plates, and 17l., I think, for the group sold to Mr. Wertheimer—the total value of all the articles found at Jewell's was 711l. 7s.—Jewell came in during the time I was going round the premises, and I said to him "These are all my property, and they have been stolen from me"—he said "I have induced Mr. Mendoza to re-sell these to me"—he was then referring to the things on the table as well as the Bristol cup and saucer and the four figures—I think that was all he said—he was then taken into custody—I first went to Clark's premises on Wednesday, 20th, in company with Butcher, about 5 or 6 o'clock in the evening—I saw Clark there; before speaking to him I saw some carpets in the shop—it is a small shop in Crawford Street with second-hand clothes hanging outside—to some extent it corresponded with the address on the card, it was the
same number—the carpets were inside the shop, they were not very valuable, they were my property—I saw nothing else there belonging to me—before I spoke to Clark I asked him if he had any china to sell or on the premises—he said "No"—I then asked him the price of the carpets—he gave me a price for them—I said "Well, Mr. Clark, these carpets have been stolen from me, who did you get them from?"—he said he was not at all aware that they were stolen and that he got them from a widow lady who was selling off all her things—I said "Well, they have been stolen from me together with a great deal of china and other valuable things, and I believe you have sold part of them to Jewell"—he said he had, but he had been down to Jewell several times with them, with different lots, for which he had received various sums—I asked him the price of one or two things that he had got from Jewell; I said "Did you have from the same source a piece of china consisting of shells and rock work—he said "Yes, I had a grotto"—I forget the sum he said he got for it, it was some very small sum, 2l. or something—I told him it was worth 50l.—he said he had been taken in—I asked him if he had sold any other of the china received from the same source to anybody else than Jewell—he said he had, a good many things, he had sold one lot to a gentlemen who came into the shop, but did not give his name, he paid for them and took them away—he said if the gentleman came in again he would know him and he would try and get them back for me—he also said that he thought he could get me back two Worcester mugs which he had sold—he promised to get them for me the next day or in two day's time—I had lost some Worcester china, I had told Clark that—he offered to get me back the china—after some hesitation he took Butcher to the address of the man who had sold the things to him—I did not go with him—next day I went to Clark's again—I asked if he had found the Worcester mugs he said "No," but he would get them for me—he then said "Would you like to walk upstairs and see if there is anything there"—we went upstairs and I saw a chimney glass which I identified as my property—I said to Clark "You had better be straightforward with us and tell us the truth, as we only want to discover the thief"—Butcher was with me, and some conversation took place between him and Clark, it was to get Clark as nearly as possible to identify what was still missing of china, we wanted to trace the chinat hat was still missing—I told him that, and he apparently assisted as far as he could—in describing from my list I described it as popularly as I could—I bad with me a list of what I had lost and I called out the items to Clark and when he recognised from my description any particular article he said he had it; some he said he had sold to Jewell and others he had sold to this gentleman who had come in casually—that was practically all that took place on that occasion; since then I have received through Clark's solicitor a large quantity of china, of which I have a list, amounting to 305l.—I received the first lot on 29th October and the second portion on the 1st November—I believe he was given into custody on 7th November—the articles I received from him were nearly all the same articles that he said he had sold to the gentleman who came in and paid for them—beyond what I have recovered I still miss about 150l. worth of property that I had placed in my dining-room, consisting of china and pictures, carpets, and a musical box; the box was worth about 20l.
Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I think Lynn and Wilmore had been twice before the Magistrate before Clark was given into custody—Jewell had been before the Magistrate; I believe Clark was summoned as a witness
—I said before the Magistrate "I first saw Clark on the 20th October the correct address is on the card, and he has been instrumental in telling me of the sale of the china to Jewell"—I also said that Wilmore was taken upon his information—I said to Clark "You shall not be a loser by it if you tell us the truth and help us to get the china back," but I meant that was the condition—he said the carpets had been brought by a dark man to dispose of for a widow lady.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. I have been for about five years a collector of old china—I have made it a complete study—I think I can tell pretty nearly the intrinsic value of old china almost the moment I see it—I have studied Continental and Oriental china as well as English—I think that information is confined to a few—I think it requires a certain amount of study—I don't think it quite approaches to a fine art; it is akin to the study of pictures—I have not indulged in the study of autographs—it sometimes happens that china of this kind is bought at an extremely low price and sold again at a very high price, but that is uncommon; important and well-known pieces vary very little in price—the Bristol cup is not the article that I set most value upon, I set considerable value upon it—the two Cupids are in reality Plymouth china, but it is very much the same as Bristol; the other pair is also Plymouth; they are known as Bristol—the cup and saucer was not originally sold for a mere trifle, it was purchased by a well-known connoisseur, and the history of it is well known; the service was purchased by a Mr. Walker, of Bath, a well-known collector, some seven or eight years ago; he sold the complete tea service by public auction, and various persons who are well known purchased several articles—Mr. Walker purchased it from abroad, I don't know the exact sum he gave for it; I should think more than 20l. a cup—I have known a Bristol cup and saucer to be sold for 3s.—I have seen them sold at public auction at Christies for 3s. during the last two years; not similar to this; I have never known one of these sold for anything like that price; there is a coat-of-arms on them with an inscription by which they are well distinguished; that is on this cup and saucer, and they are known among collectors by the paste, by the material they are made of—my cup would be known to be Bristol by the paste, by the general appearance of it; there are five of these chocolate cups and saucers in existence, and there are five or six tea cups and saucers; these were originally made for chocolate—there was a teapot, cream ewer, and sugar basin which the late Mr. Callender possessed; he was a collector—I have purchased china at a very small price which is worth a good deal more now than what I gave for it—I purchased a group in Italy, for 3l. which I value at 20l.—I have never purchased anything at 3l., 4l., or 5l. that I value at 100l.; I never had such luck; if I had I should not object, if I was convinced it was honestly come by—I describe this as a Bristol cup and saucer which is extremely rare, from the fact that the manufacture of Bristol china lasted only a few years, and the history of it is well known—the coat-of-arms is the coat-of-anns of the celebrated Edmund Burke, and it was presented to him by Mr. Champion, the master of the works at Bristol, and there is an inscription to that effect; it was manufactured and painted at Bristol—I have known of several sales of old china at Wilkinson's, Sotheby's, and Christie's during many years—I have not known of a tea service sold for 8l. and afterwards fetching 100l.—I remember Mr. Lizardi's sale being advertised—I never heard of vases which he bought for 60l. selling for 700l.—I do not know of four cups
bought for 20l. and selling for 120l.—I do not know of Mr. Werthiemer's buy. ing silver vases and figures for 65l. and selling them for 800l., or of a china service purchased for 350l. and selling for 1,000l.—I know Captain Lee as a collector—I do not know of five plates that he used for dog's drinking troughs which he sold for 2l. fetching 100l. immediately afterwards—I have not known Chelsea vases bought for 3l. and selling for 70l. or 80l.; I have known them bought for 20l. and sold for 40l.—I have been in the habit of going about looking after old china at sales and curiosity shops to pick up a, good bargain at the lowest price—to the best of my belief I saw Mr. Jewell on one occasion at the sale where I purchased the cup and saucer it was a three days' sale—I saw him there the day the cup was sold—to the best of my belief he has returned to me the whole of the china that he received—the first time I went to his shop I saw the shopman, that is the gentleman (Mr. Jones), and when I came in half an hour afterwards I saw Mr. Jewell—he said he had bought a lot of rubbish of Clark when I told him that the Bristol cup and saucer and the figures were stolen from me, that was on the 19th instant—I think I stated before the Magistrate that he said he had bought a lot of rubbish, I am not quite sure, it is so long ago—he said "I have bought a lot of things not worth much," or "A lot of rubbish"—it may not have been those exact words, it was "A lot of things that are worthless" or "A lot of small value," or something of that sort—the expression he used was that he bought them out of the street or from the street; that the man brought them in to him from the street—I understood his meaning to be that he had come in from the street casually and sold them to him—I did not see Mr. Mendoza in the shop when I first saw Mr. Jones—when I came back he was there and Mr. Jewell referred me to him as the purchaser of the china—I don't remember his saying that he should have much pleasure in showing them to me; he said he would show them to me—I am quite sure that the Shopman produced the Bristol figures out of a safe—I am quite sure they were not exposed for sale; they were not where I could see them—he produced them from under the desk where the safe was—I saw the safe afterwards in the same place where he brought them from—it was a desk about the middle of the shop, at the end of the first part of the china shop—it is not a regular counter, it is a desk where accounts are kept; it is a kind of double shop; there was a good deal of valuable property in the shop—I should think 7,000l. or 8,000l. worth—the cup and saucer were produced out of the safe—I did not know Mr. Jones—I don't know whether he knew me, I don't think he did—I did not give him my name—I never bought anything of him—I had been to Jewell's shop once or twice before without purchasing—my motive in purchasing the Bow figure and the two plates was to take them away and to be able to swear that they were my property, and also to ascertain if they were exposed for sale—the Bow figure was in a cupboard, the two plates were on a side table—the cupboard had a glass front to it; it could be seen if you looked into it, without unlocking it—there were several other things with it; it was a small cabinet—I did not hint to Mr. Jones the first time I saw him that the cup was stolen—I was not at first quite sure that the cup and saucer were mine—there are others in existence, but very few—there was very strong evidence to my mind that they belonged to me, but I was not then aware that I had had one stolen from me—I was not quite sure till I saw the four Bristol figures, then I was quite certain—the possessors of these cups are all known, I have a list here of all of them—I got the information
from a friend—the group I saw at Mr. Wertheimer's was produced by him from the back of the shop on the second day, a friend of my wife's bad seen it there—the Bristol figures that I saw at Mr. Jewell's shop I had seen two or three days before—they were shown to me by Mr. George, of Albany Street—I did not then recognise them as mine—I was not then aware I had been robbed; it struck me they were very like mine, but I thought they might be a similar pair—they are uncommon, but there are others in existence—I don't think the group sold to Mr. Wertheimer had been redecorated—I think I gave 17l. for it—I have said that Mr. Jewell rendered me assistance to recover all I have got—I believe everything Mr. Jewell had he has returned to me—when I told him on the 19th that these things had been stolen he said "I am extremely sorry to hear it; I had not the least idea they were stolen"—when I gave him into custody on the 22nd he said I should have to answer for it, and I believe he said he considered my conduct harsh, or something of the kind, I don't remember the words.
Re-examined. I believe I saw George a day or two before the 19th—he had only the pair of Cupids with him—the Bristol cup that I have known sold for 3s. was not at all like this—it depends entirely on the quality and the condition; if broken, of course they are valueless.
By THE COURT. The value depends partly upon the rarity, but this was a very expensive set originally equivalent to 20l. a cup and saucer, and the lot cost over 100l. and was presented to Mr. Burke, when M.P. for Bristol—it is quite different from the 3s. cup, they may have been made by the same manufacturer, but a different quality altogether.
JOHN WILMORE (the Prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this charge—I am brother-in-law to the prisoner Lynn—during last summer she was looking after Mr. Salting's house, in Green Street—I used to visit her there—at the end of August, or the beginning of September, she gave me a musical-box, I pawned that at Richardson's in George Street, Bryanston Square, for 30s. or 2l.—I took the ticket back to Lynn, and she told me to sell it—I took it to the prisoner Clark—I had seen him before—I can't exactly say when I first saw him; I had had dealings with him once or twice before; I think with some of Mr. Salting's property—I took him some tickets for carpets; I had pawned those carpets at Richardson's for a few shillings; I can't exactly say how much—there was also one or two pictures, and a looking-glass—I don't remember what Clark gave me for the ticket of the musical-box; it would not be more than 3s. or 4s.—I afterwards took him one or two pictures, he gave me 10s. or 1l.—I also sold him the ticket of two or three pictures—I don't recollect what he gave me for it—when. I took him the picture he asked me where I got it from; I told him I had it from a relation who gave it to me to get rid of for her—in' September I received some china from Lynn, I pawned one small lot at Richardson's for 8s.—I sold the ticket to Clark for 2s. or 3s.—I afterwards went with Clark to Richardson's to fetch one of the pictures out—the china was got out; I was not there—I did not see it afterwards at Clark's premises—I took two small shell like things in china to Clark—he wanted me to pawn them to see what I could get on them—I got those from Mr. Salting's dining-room, along with Lynn—I took them to Smith's, a pawnbroker, in Edgware Road, I could not pawn them; I sold them for 2l.—I told Clark what I had done—he was rather put out that I should have sold them; he said I ought to have pawned them—day after day for some time I continually took
china from Mr. Salting's dining-room, and took it to Clark—I can't say on how many occasions I took china to Clark, sometimes two or three times a week—I generally took them up to his bedroom—I did not know anything of the value of these articles—he generally gave me a small sum, sometimes a sovereign, sometimes a half sovereign, sometimes 2l.—I always took them in the evening—he generally used to take them out next morning, he told me so and I used to see him go with them—he generally used to say that he took them to Oxford Street, somewhere to sell, and he used to give me what he thought proper out of the money he made by them—in all I received from him about 30l.—I took the money and divided it with Lynn—when I took these things to Clark, he did not ask me my name or address—he said "If anybody should make inquiries I shall never know you, I shall say I bought them of some broken down gentleman, or something of that sort"—I never went with Clark to Jewell's shop—I did not know Jewell's shop—I sold to Clark a ticket relating to a blanket and one counterpane pawned at Kichardson's—I afterwards saw that counterpane hanging outside Clark's door, I saw the name of Salting on it—I called Mrs. Clark's attention to it—I afterwards saw the name cut out by Mrs. Clark—I also saw one of the pictures in the shop; I told Clark he had better put it out of the way in case the gentleman should come round and see it and own it—he did not do it then; I don't know whether he did it' afterwards—he and I had before that gone about with that picture to see what we could get on it—we went to Smith's, in Edgware Road, and two or three others whose names I don't know now, and we took it back to Clark's again and it remained there—he afterwards told me he had given it to a friend to take care of for him—I was taken into custody sometime in October.
Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. When I first took the pictures to him I told him they belonged to a relation of mine, who was living with a gentleman, and that she had given them to me to get rid of for her—Mia Lynn is not a widow—she is a married woman, her husband is alive—I did not tell Clarke she was a widow, I said she was living with a gentleman—I gave my proof to the solicitor for the prosecution when I was in gaol—I have not been sentenced yet—I did not know till to-day that Clark gave the information on which I was taken into custody—I knew it in the dock here to-day; I knew it before I gave my evidence, I have received from him about 30l. altogether—I used to take the money back to my sister-in-law, and we used to divide it—I was taken into custody about a week before Clark—I did not know that Clark was attending at Bow Street as a witness; I saw him there, not in custody—I used frequently to visit Lynn in Green Street; I helped to steal the china, I went into the room and took it and other articles.
Re-examined. No one from the prosecution saw me until after I had pleaded guilty to this indictment—no promise has been held out me for the evidence I should give.
CHARLES JOHN WERTHEIMER . I am a dealer in antique china carrying on business at 154, New Bond Street—I have known Jewell for some time; he does not carry on a business similar to mine; he deals in china—I sometimes go to Christie's sales during the season—I have frequently seen Jewell there and elsewhere at sales of china—somewhere about 6th October last, I was going past Jewell's shop, he beckoned me and I went in—I there saw a Mr. Mendoza, a different Mr. Mendoza from the one that has been spoken to
—Jewell said, "I am very glad to Bee you, I was just to write to you, I have something to suit you," he took me to the back of the shop he went up stairs and brought down a china group, I did not buy it, I think he asked about 15l. for it—he then brought me a Dresden spinning wheel group for which he asked 32l.—Iagreed to purchase that he did not tell me where it came from—he said he had, given 30l. for it—I sent him a cheque for it; I think on the Monday or Tuesday following—I took the Dresden group away. with me—it was in middle of the day on wednesday or Thursday, I wont swear to the day, it was about the middle of the week—at the same time he showed me a Bristol cup and saucer saying "I will show you something very fine"—I did not admire it as much as he thought I ought; I declined to buy it—he said he wanted 100l. for it he produced a book to corroborate the price he asked the cup was illustrated in the book—I could not understand the value of it, I thought it was a mania—I said, "I cannot understand a cup of that character being worth that amount, as I see no artistic beauty or merit in it," he said; "I will show what they fetch," and he brought out this catalogue or book or what ever it might have been the price was Quoted in the book at 90l., odd I think, the six pieces were 400l., odd I think, I did not retain it in my mind it was printed in the book—he asked me to endeavour to self it for him, as I had a better market than he had—I said, "don't think I can sell it why dont you show it Mr. Salting, he is well known as a collector of that kind of china"—he made some remark implying that Mr. Salting was a duffer—I dont think there was any further conversation then. and saucer—when I left he hoped to have other fine things and if here eived them he would give me the refudal of them.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. My father has been established business between thirty and forty years—ourbusiness is not devoted exclusively to china but to articles of verta we have a manufactory as well our shop is well known to gentlemen-collecting old china we are one of the largest dealers in London—when Clark showed me British cap and saucer, I said it was a perfect madness as to this English china that there was no artistic merit in it—I have known Mr. Salting it may he two or three years—I have seen him at Christie's, and I think he has occasinally visited our establishment—I told Jewell I would try to sell this cnp for him—if I had taken it away with me most probably should have shown it to Mr. Salting—I am sure Jewell said that Mr. Salting was a duffer, I under stand by a duffer; not a good customer; it does notmean anything derpgatpry I might use the term myself of a customer who takes up your time for two or three hours and buys nothing—on examining the—group I bought of Jewell, I found it to be a redecorated group, and I sent it back declining to keep it on that ground, he refused to take it back and insisted upon-pay ment, and said he "should appeal to his" attorney, he—issued a writ against me, but he withdrew those proceedings afterwards when it was discovered it was stolen—I had given him a cheque for it, but I stopped the pay-nient of it—I am positive he said he had given 30l. for it—I was not asked about that before the Magistrate—I generally sell at a profit it has occurred" the other way, but very rarely—I do not remember purchasing a table for 2l., and selling it for 80l.; or buying-Chelsea vases and figures, for 65l. and and selling them for 800l., I have very often made large profits, and it has occurred in that proportion.
Jewell's family these forty years; he came from abroad I think four or five years ago—since then he has been carrying on business in Lincoln's Inn Fields and Oxford Street, buying china and curio—I bought some china of him last year—this is the list which Mr. Salting bought of me and took away, "Four enamelled boxes, one pair of Chelsea figures, two ditto small, one pair of Chelsea figures in bowers, one female figure, a Flora, two small Etruscan vases, three Worcester cups, one Dresden figure, one pair of Vienna cups and saucers, one apple green ditto, a cup and saucer, and a silver mug"—for those I paid 76l., I think on the 12th October—when I appeared at Bow Street on Jewell's first examination I told Mr. Salting and Mr. Humphreys, his solicitor,-that I had been buying some china lately of Jewell, and I at once returned it, taking Mr. Salting's undertaking to return it in the event of its not being his.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. I have acted as solicitor for Mr. Jewell, and for his father for nearly thirty years—I never heard anything contrary to the character of an honourable and honest man as regards Mr. Jewell—I issued the writ for him against Mr. Wertheimer—he intended to enforce that claim—of course if it had been resisted there must have been a public inquiry—when the cheque was stopped I issued the writ by Mr. Jewell's direction—I afterwards gave notice to Mr. Wertheimer not to answer to it, because I was going to return the china to Mr. Salting—that was after the first examination at Bow Street—Mr. Jewell came to me on the 20th, and said there had been a noise about the china he was buying—I said "Who have you been purchasing from?"—he said "A man that keeps a shop in the Edgware Road"—I said "What is he?"—he said "A dealer in china and all manner of things?"—I said "If you have bought of a shop-keeper you can't get into any trouble"—he said "They want to look at my books"—I said "I don't know that I should show them all my books, but I should ask them to refer to any particular items and refer to your books, but I should not like any detective or anybody else to overhaul all my books"—I gave him that advice on the 20th—he told me the shop-keeper had informed him that he had bought them from a lady who had been kept by a nobleman, that she had not seen him for eight or nine months, and she was disposing of different articles that she did not require, for the purpose of maintaining herself, as she did not know what had become of him—he said "Do you think I might buy them from the lady herself"—I said "Certainly not, you had much better buy them from the shop-keeper, because the gentleman may come back and complain of the lady selling his property."
Re-examined. He did not tell me who the customer was—he said "A man living up by the Edgware Road, a general shop-keeper who is selling them on behalf of this lady"—I am sure this conversation took place on the 20th, in the evening about 6.30, it. might have been 7 or 8 o'clock—I believe it was the 19th or the 20th, and I think the 20th—he did not mention the name of Mendoza.
By MR. SERJEANT PARRY. I am not certain it may not have been the 19th, I can't tell the day of the week.
JOHN WATSON . I am a dealer in chiaa, 499 and 500, New Oxford Street—I have known Jewell ever since he has been in this business, about four or five years, it may be six—he has been doing a goodish trade apparently—on the 30th September last I bought a Bristol sweetmeat stand from him, it is the one that has been produced, for which I paid 42l.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. He established this china business
—his father has been a china dealer for forty years—the prisoner has been in business four years and during that time I have known him to be an honourable man and honest in his dealings—gentlemen in oar position would certainly not deal with any one but who had that character—I purchased the. stand to sell again—I have carried on my business over twenty years—my shop is well known to curiosity hunters and collectors—I sold the stand for a small profit—I purchased at one. time from a. gentleman of the name of Lees some troughs which had been used by him for dogs to drink from; I gave for them about 2l. and sold them for 100l.; I saw them sold for 500l. afterwards.; they have since passed through one or two hands and have been sold for over 1,000l.—I know of several! instances where things increased in value after being sold for a very large profit—I know of a Bristol cup three or four years ago with the gold mark worth five of the one produced to-day, being sold, for 4l. and it fetched 70l.—the gold mark on Bristol manufacture gives it an increased" value—this cup has not 'got what is called the gold mark or the blue mark either—I should not like to give an opinion as to whether this cup is part of a set presented to Mr. Burke—the gold mark on a cup indicates greater value than this, but not the blue—I should think more highly of a cup with the gold mark than I do of this,.
Re-examined. I was passing the shop in which the sweetmeat piece was for sale and I went in and asked the price, which was 42l.—I told Mr. Jewell no doubt I could sell it, and if I did I would give him a-cheque-at once; I did sell it—I think I have seen two other cups and saucers similar to what is produced, at Sotheby & Wilkinson's; I think they fetched about 12l.—the Bristol china is a particular branch, which I have not made a great study—with regard to the Chelsea, I should give a better definition of it—according to the rage for it now, I should think 2l. was a small price for this cup.
CHARLES BUTCHER (Detective Sergeant C). On Wednesday, 20th October, about 10.30 in the morning, I accompanied Mr. Young to Jewell's shop in Oxford Street—I saw Mr. Jewell, Mr. Jones, and Mr. Mendoza—I told Jewell I was a detective officer and had come with Mr. Salting respecting the china—he said he did not know me, he understood Marshall was coming—I said "You know Mr. Salting"—he said "Yes"—I told him Marshall could not come—I asked Jewell to show the things he had shown to Mr. Salting over night—he said he could not do so, they were sold—ultimately I went to Bloomsbury Square, where I remained with Mr. Salting for a quarter of an hour—after some conversation between myself Mr. Salting, and Mr. Mendoza, I went back to Jewell's premises—Jewell said the two large Cupids were out on approbation then a person of the name of George was mentioned, and I asked Jewell what George's address was—he replied "I do not know, he is only a casual man that looks in occasionally"—I then said "Mr. Jewell," "do you intend to tell me that you let a man you know nothing of take property away to the amount of 20l., I don't know who would believe you"—at this time there was a pair of small Bristol figures produced, and Mr. Salting went away for a while—I remained in the shop—Mr. Salting was absent about half an hour—just before he came back Jewell handed to me a pair of figures done up in a parcel which he brought up from the shop—I asked Where did they come from, who brought them?"—he said a man had just brought them in and given them to him—I said "Where is he"—he said "He is just gone out of the door"—I then said "You knew I was waiting to see the person who brought them, why did. not you
ask him to wait to let me see him"—he made no reply to that—there was some conversation about the cup and saucer—I said the cup was invoiced to Mendoza at 4l.—he made no remark, but showed me a book, and I said "You offered the cup and saucer for sale some ten days before for 100l."—I saw these two books (produced) there—when I made the remark about 100l., Jewell said "I did not know—the value of it"—on 22nd October, I took Jewell into custody, I took possession of these two books and the cheque-book (produced)—on 20th October, after the conversations with Jewell and Mr. Salting, I went to the premises of Clark, in Crawford Street, Marylebone—I said to him "I have come from Mr. Jewell, in Oxford Street" (I told him who I was first) "he has given me this card, have you any more china in your possession"—he said "No, I have not"—I asked him if he had bought any more through the same source that he had had the other, and sold—he said he had—I asked him what he had done with it, he said he had sold two lots to a stranger, that saw it in the window, and came in and purchased it—I asked him for his name and address—he said he could not give it, he did not know—I asked the description of the man, and he described him as a dark man—ultimately I took "Wilmore into custody, I think on 29th October, I am not certain—on 28th October, I think, I arrested Lynn, at Newman Street, Edgware Road, three minutes' walk from where Clark lived—Clark had been in attendance as a witness for the prosecution, and from certain information laid before Mr. Flowers, he was arrested, and I executed the warrant on the 11th November—prior to that I received certain china from Mr. Payne—Mr. Salting has a list of the articles—I told Clark, upon taking him into custody upon the warrant that he was charged with receiving 150l. for the china he said it was nothing more than he expected, and that I would hare him before I had done—I told him he would have to go to the station; I took possession of two carpets and a looking-glass—he said he did not think I had any right to take it as it was not named in the warrant—I said it did not matter about that, all stolen property I always took possession of—he sent for Mr. Payne, solicitor, and he came round to him, and he represented him before the Magistrate.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Jewell said he did not know where the man lived, to whom he had entrusted the group of two figures—he mentioned his name after being pressed and believed it was George; I made the observation "I do not know who could believe you when you say that you entrusted these two figures to a man you knew nothing of"—I did not wish to trap him by that—the moment the name of George was mentioned, Mr. Salting said "I know him too"—I knew before putting the question to Jewell, that he had offered a Mr. George some—I did not put the question for the purpose of catching him.
Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. I said before the Magistrate "I received the china in consequence of Clark's request that I should go to Mr. Payne's for it"—that is the first lot—Clark said that he had bought the pawnbroker's tickets for the carpets and the glass from Wilmore, and had redeemed them—he was summoned on one occasion to give evidence on the part of the prosecution and attended on two occasions—I looked at Jewell's book and I saw several entries of china with the name of Clark against them—Clark was committed for trial on the last examination at Bow Street, I think the 2nd November, and he has been on bail and attending from time to time at this Court.
JOHN WATSON (re-called, further cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PABRY); Before Jewell was arrested he asked me. to get back the articles I had sold and he would refund me the money, and he did refund me 50l.
MR. SALTING (re-called). I have seen all the china produced to-day, and I identify it as my own—on the 19th the shopman Jones showed me a book in which the price of the Bristol cup and saucer figured at 100l—I gave in this list of the things which I identified as having been returned, to me through. Jewell—the prices affixed are those which I gave for, the articles as near as possible—I do not remember them all—I have made oat the list from memory—there is an instance in which I have put. the highest price, because I bought it at a lower price, and I considered them worth a good deal more—the first is an instance where I gave 85l., and I have put down 105l.; I consider it worth nearer 200l—itis the only instance in. which I have added 20l. to the price I actually gave—the 711l. odd includes those articles, and I think the Bristol cup and saucer and the Bristol figures—I put down for the Bristol cup and saucer at 78l. 15s.
Tuesday, Feb. 1, 1876.
The following witinesses were called for the defence:—
CHARLES JONES . I am in the service of Mr. Jewell, who keeps a-sbop, for the sale of articles (of antiquity and vertu in Oxford—Street—I have been in his service about six years—I was formerly for three years in the service of Messrs: Wertheimer, of Bond Street-.! went from them to Mr. Jewell—I was present when, Clark first came, to Mr. Jewell's—I was present on the second day, the 25th, between, 11 and 12 o'clock-jn the morning he brought with him a salt stand which was very much damaged, two Worcester saucers, and several other little things—Mr. Jewell said to him "I should like to know where you got these from"—Clark said "I left mycard yesterday morning, and I think you ought to know where I got the things from"—he had left his card the previous morning, I had seen it—Clark. then said "I bring them from, a party who has them from a lady,-a relation of his, to sell, and this lady has been in keeping by a gentleman for some years; lately he had left her, and she was obliged to dispose of the property to maintain herself"—Mr. Jewell said "Did you buy them from the lady 1"—Clark said "No, it is a cousin of hers," or a brother-in-law, I do not know which he said exactly, "that brings them to him; and—I buy them of him as he lives in my neighbourhood"—he also said that he (Clark) had two uncles that were pawnbrokers—Mr. Jewell bought the-lot for 14l—I bad not the slightest suspicion that; there was anything wrong, and Mr. Jewell appeared to take the explanation as a genuine one—I was present on the 13th October and saw Clark—Mr. Jewell was not there then—Clark offered me four Worcester plates, one Chelsea plate,-and two pieces of blue Oriental for 7l.—I told him I should not buy them, as Mr. Jewell; told me that unless he told me the name of the lady the china came from he would not buy any more—Clark said "Mr. Jewell must think Lam a fool, he wants to take the bread out of my mouth," as much as to say that he would go there and buy the china himself, and that he should not get any money out of it—after that no china was purchased of Clark—the card was left on the 24th—I saw it on the 25th—I went to Clark's shop by Mr. Jewell's direction and had the card with me—I only went to see the shop, I didn't go inside, it was what I thought a business-looking shop, a double frontage shop at the corner of Croydon Street and Crawford Street—therewere
china lustres and other things in the window, which made it look 1 ke a business-like shop—I returned and informed Mr. Jewell of what I had seen—the articles purchased of Clark were exposed in our shop like other articles for sale—ours—is a double shop with a centre door—some of the articles were exposed in the window and others on tables and in cabinets—they "were treated exactly in the same way as other articles that were for sale—there was no secrecy or concealment on the part of Mr. Jewell—I never received orders from him to conceal anything with reference to these articles—I should say the value of property altogether in the shop would be about 10,000l. or 12,000l.—I did not know Mr. Salting as a customer—I have known him, and I think he had been twice in our shop or three times, I am not certain—he had not purchased anything on either of these occasions—Mr. Jewell himself keeps the books; these are the daybook and cash-book—the cash-book contains a list of the purchases that are made and the monies paid for them—every sale by Clark is entered in this book, that I know—the first sale on the 24 this "china "only, afterwards it is "Clark, china"—we have-a show-room upstairs where articles are exposed for sale—the amount given to Clark for all the things purchased of him was 100l. 14s.—I know Mr. Mendoza, he is a dealer in works of art at Liverpool, but he has a residence in London—this entry, dated October 7th, was, I should say, made at the time it purported to be made, in the ordinary course of business, I did not see the entry made; I saw it after it was made; I believe it is correct—some of the payments to Clark were made by cheque—these (produced) are the cheques—there is one of September 24th for 11l. 10s., another of the same date 14l., and the 27th 7l. 10s.; those are all payable to Clark—there were some cheques given upon which his name did not appear, and there were also payments in cash—I did not see this cup and saucer at the time it was purchased, I might have seen it the next day or the day after; I did not know it to be the rare cup and saucer that Mr. Salting has described, and I do not believe that Mr. Jewell did—I can hardly say whether Mr. Wertheimer called before or after this entry relating to Mr. Mendoza—I believe the things were sold to Mr. Mendoza previous to Mr. Wertheimer's coming—I believe Mr. Mendoza is not here—he is a dealer in articles similar to these at Liverpool—his father carried on business in London, I believe, at 498, New Oxford Street—he has died since these proceedings were commenced—here is a cheque for 110l.; 10s. paid to Mr. Mendoza on the 20th October, it is endorsed by Mr. Mendoza—during the whole time up to the 19th October, when Mr. Salting called, these articles were exposed like all others in the shop for sale—Mr. Salting called about 5.30 or.6 o'clock on the evening of the 19th and saw me—I then discovered it was a Bristol cup by looking into this book of Mr. Chaffers—I did not produce the cup from a safe, it was on a table at the back of the shop; it is all cabinets and tables there—there is no counter—I am perfectly certain that it never came out of a safe when I showed it to Mr. Salting—I showed him the two Cupids as well and the other two little figures—they were on the table with the cup and saucer—he asked me the price of the Bow figure which he saw in the cabinet—I said I could not tell him, it had only been in the place a week or two—I asked him 100l. for the cup—he asked me the reason I asked that price—he went away and came back again and saw Mr. Jewell—I heard some part of the conversation about the china—he bought the Bow figure and the plates, and I heard him tell Mr. Jewell "The china I have seen in your place has been stolen
from my House"—Mr. Jewell said "I-am very sorry, I had not the slightest idea they were stolen"—Mr. Salting said "I shall have to fetch some one in to identify them,' and he went out and fetched in the detective—while he was gone Mr. Jewell told me to light up the back part of the shop—I did so, and when Mr. Salting came back he identified a number of articles and made a list of them while the detective was there—the officer was announced as a detective, so that I knew who he was—I believe the detective asked Mr. Jewell where he got the things from—he said "I bought them of a man of the name of Clark, but I have his card," and he sent me to look for" it; I was not able to find it, but I told Mr. Salting if I stopped there all night I would find it for him—Mr. Mendoza was sitting in the shop at the time, and Mr. Salting said to him "I should like to see that cup and saucer again" Mr. Mendoza said "I should like to show it you with pleasure," or "You can see it with pleasure," and he asked me to send round for it—a person name Dunning came into the shop at the time and said that he knew where Mr. Mendoza lived—I asked him to go round to Mr. Mendoza, and ask him to let him have the cup and saucer—he came back and said Mr. Mendoza was out—that was old Mr. Mendoz—I believe Mr. Jewell had got the cup and saucer on approbation for Mr. Mendoza after the sale to him—that is a usual thing—I know Mr. George of Albany Street—before the 19th October some. figures had been given to him on approbation—it might have been three, four, or five days before—I saw Mr. Salting again on the 20th, and he then went to Mr. Mendoza's honse in Bloomsbury Square—I did not go with him—there was a detective with him then—Mr. George returned these two figures on the 25th—I took them from him; not from himself, but from a party whom he sent with them—it was in the morning—Mr. Salting was not present then—I did not find Clark's card—by Mr. Jewell's direction, I—went to Clark next morning, and saw him, and I said "Mr. Clark will you be kind enough to give me a card"—he said "Yes, with pleasure—I said "You have got Mr. Jewell into a very nice mess"—he said "What do you mean?"—I said "All the china he has been buying of you is stolen property"—he said "I do not believe it; I know it came from a gay lady"—I brought his card back, and gave it to Mr. Jewell, and he gave it to Mr. Salting—that was on the 20th, the same morning that I fetched it—when George's name was mentioned, Mr. Salting said "I know George; I will go up to his place"—he went up, and came back again—in the meantime the couple of Cupids—were returned and taken in by me—no charge bad been made against Mr. Jewell—we were aware on the night previous that the things had been stolen, because he had told us 50—I remember Mr. Salting calling on the 22nd with Butcher—at that time Mr. Mendoza had returned all the things sold to him alleged to have been stolen—I heard Mr. Jewell point them all out to Mr. Salting, and he identified most of them as his property—he looked round the shop, and I asked him if he would like to look upstairs, and I showed him upstairs—we gave him every facility to ascertain what were his goods—Mr. Jewell told him on the 20th that he would do everything that laid in his power to get the things back—in calling over the list I discovered that a piece of Swansea was missing, and I fetched the day book, and showed Mr. Salting the entry of the sale of it, and that piece was got back and returned to him with the others—after that Butcher produced his warrant, and arrested Mr. Jewell on the charge of receiving these china pieces knowing them to be stolen—Mr. Jewell turned—round to Mr. Salting and said "I
think you have used very harsh steps in this matter, I never had the slightest idea they were stolen when I bought them"—I know'tbat this case has been postponed several times—I believe Mr. Mendoza was here the Session before last—I did not see him—I was told he was here—I saw him in London—since then I have been to his house in London to try to find him, but have not been able to do so, or to hear anything of him—I was told he was out of town, and I did not know in what part of the world he was.
Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. He was often in Mr. Jewell's shop when he was in town—I would not swear one way or the other whether he was here last Sessions, I believe it was two Sessions ago that I saw him; I will swear I did not see him in the neighbourhood of this Court last Session, cr in London—I believe he paid for the china—I don't see any entry of the receipt of the money—Mr. "Wertheimer's entry is before Mr. Mendoza's—this book of Mr. Chaffers had been in Mr. Jewell's shop about two years he frequently had occasion to refer to it—it was on the 12th or 13th October, that it was first ascertained this cup and saucer were Bristol—Mr. Jewell called my attention to it—I was not present at the—saleof the Dresden spinning wheel group to Mr. Wertheimer; I knew nothing of Mr. Jewell having asked him 100l. for this cup and saucer—when I went to Clark I did not say "There is a bother about this property, and you had better get rid of any you have got"—I find by the day-book that the sale to Levy, is sometime after the sale to Mendoza—at the time Mr. Salting first came on the 19th, the things were on the premises; he went out for half an hour; I sent to Mr. Jewell at his request, and he came in about ten minutes—when Mr. Salting returned, the Bow figure and the two plates remained in the shop, the cup and saucer and the two figures were sent to Mr. Mendoza, because he was going to Liverpool next morning; they were in paper when I showed them to Mr. Salting, I believe, going round to Mr. Mendoza, to be packed to take to Liverpool—Mr. Jewell had them back from Mr. Mendoza, on approbation, he thought he could sell them—I believe Mr. Dunning took them to Mr. Mendoza—when Mr. Salting came back and asked to see the Bristol cup and saucer, he was referred to Mr. Mendoza, he was not told that it was impossible for him to see them—Mr. Salting asked Mr. Mendoza to allow him to see' the cup and saucer, and he said "Yes, with pleasure," and he said to me "Will you mind sending for the cup and saucer to my house?"—that was said in the presence of Mr. Salting—I have heard what he has sworn—I think it. was between 10 and 12 o'clock on the 20th, that Mr. Salting came with Butcher—I do not know when it was that the two Bristol figures were brought back from Mr. Mendoza's—I know that two of the Bristol figures were produced to Mr. Salting at Mr. Jewell's shop on the morning of the 20th—Butcher was sitting at the back of the shop while Mr. Salting went to George's—I do not know who the man was that brought back the two Cupids—he said "I have brought these back from Mr. George"—I had not seen the man before, and have never seen him since; I have frequently had transactions with George; I don'fc remember Butcher saying that he wished to see the person who brought them—Mr. Salting was absent about three quarters of an hour—I don't know when the two Cupids were seut to George; I believe he had them the previous evening—I believe he had them from Mr. Jewell on approbation, to try and sell to a gentleman—Clark's name was not mentioned to Mr. Salting, on the first occasion—Mr. Jewell said no such thing as a
traveller coming in from the street, with them—Mr. Jewejl said "I had them from a tradesman of the name of Clark, I have his card," and he sent me to find it—I did not show Mr. Salting, a manuscript book when he first called, nothing more than Chaffers book, no book with 200l. carried out—I asked 100l. for it—we have not got "Owen's Bristol china"—I know the book, but we never had it—Mr. Jewell's stock consists of English and foreign china—I can't tell when the whole of the property was brought round from Mr. Mendoza's, I believe it was on the morning of the 20th, but I am not sure, they came from the packers—after Mr. Salting's visit, Mr. Jewell asked Mr. Mendoza to re-sell it as it was all stolen property.
Re-examined. When I showed, the cup and saucer to Mr. Salting, on the evening of the 19th, it was wrapped up in tissue paper ready to be sent round to Mr. Mendoza's; I took it out of paper before Mr. Salting's eyes the cup was wrapped up separate from the saucer—in two or three different pieces of paper—that is not the way in which we keep china in the shop for sale.
JAMES GEORGE . I live at 124, Albany Street, Regent's Park—I am a dealer in works of art and china—I am from time to time entrusted with articles of vertu and curiosities for sale—I have known Mr. Jewell about three years—I have from time to time received articles of vertu on approbation from him—I have sold some for him—I recollect the 20th October and returning upon that date to Mr. Jewell some Bristol figures—it was about 11.30 in the morning—I had received them the night before, the 19th, about 8 o'clock—I had had these figures twice before and twice returned—them—they are the ones I exhibited to Mr. Salting at his residence in Green Street—Mr. Jewell did not know my address, he only knew me as a person entrusted by different dealers with articles on approbation, and he knew me from keeping a shop in Bloomsbury Square close to him.
Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. When I received the Cupids from Mr. Jewell he did not mention that a gentleman had been to his shop who said they were stolen—he said I was to return them as early as I could—I took them to show a customer; I did not name the customer—Mr. Jewell did not know my address—a great many do not know where I live—I am well known. in the trade—I have cards printed, one of which you have seen—I have known Mr. Jewell about three years, and have had about twenty transact tions with him altogether—I have had things from his place, but they have not been seut to my premises—there was a price for the Cupids with other articles given me by Mr. Jewell—I took away on the 19th the Cupids only, and told Mr. Jewell that I thought I could get a good price for them—there as no particular price named, I was to get what I could—I trusted to Mr. Jewell as to what I should have if I sold them—he had paid me numbers of prices for china I sold him on former occasions—I could not get a customer for the Cupids—I did not see the gentleman, and I sent them back by a man I met by appointment.
HENRY WATSON . I was formerly in business as a dealer in antique articles—I am now living in Taverton Street, Gordon Square—I was about twenty-five years in business "before I left it—I know these Bristol cups—I should think at the time the—cup and saucer were made their cost would not be above 4l. or 5l. at the very outside—the values put upon these articles are fancy ones—some few years back a service realised next to nothing—I have known a complete service sold for less than 3l.—seven years ago this mania for Bristol china did not exist, it is quite recent—I
hare myself sold a complete service for 10l.—it is a common thing to buy very cheap articles of china and sell them at very dear prices.
Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. There are books upon English china; I know of Owen's book on English china—I know there is actually a picture of these Bristol cups—I never heard until yesterday in Court that these cups were made for presentation to Edmund Burke, neither am I disposed to endorse it; nor as to the scarcity of these, and being made for the amount—I think it is very possible that if submitted now it would not fetch half the money—the rage is orfly among a few gentlemen, whose heads when they get together at a sale "go" like automatons—j have been out of business about ten years—I collect English and, Chelsea china, not Bristol.
Re-examined. My head does not "go" like an automaton with Bristol china, nor yet with others—the service that I say was sold for 3l. was of similar paste to this—these cups and saucers are imitated so closely that I very much question whether anyone in Court'would know one from the other—I have been thirty-six years in the study of china, and as to "real" and "imitation" I find myself at fault occasionally—I have known Mr. Jewell in the trads about five or six years, and during that time he has always borne the character of a very straightforward and honourable man.
GEORGE HEIGHAM . I am a silversmith, carrying on business at 139, High Holborn—I recollect in September last being in Mr. Jewell's shop when he was buying some china from Clark—I do not recollect what it was, but as far as I saw the transaction was straightforward—I know a little of this trade—I bought a pair of Chelsea vases for 3l. which I sold for 90l.
Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. According to my opinion the customer got the advantage in that case—I picked up the bargain at a sale and it paid well.
Re-examined. Acustomer getting the bargain means the article would be worth more now—they have been sold since for 180l
JOSEPH WELSH . I live at 68, High Holborn—I am a dealer in china and antique furniture, and have been for the last thirty years—I have all my life been in the habit of purchasing at sales and otherwise—I bought at an auction at Sittingbourne a console table, a very beautiful one, for which I paid two guineas and sold it for eighty—the man to whom I sold it afterwards sold it to Baron'Kothschild for 160 guineas—I know of many instances of articles being bought at very small prices and sold at very high ones—I know Mr. Jewell well; he has always borne a high, straightforward, and honourable character; ho is only twenty-six years of age—these things are not always bought at sales—a friend of mine bought the other day from a lady and gentleman a service for 100l. for which had been given il.—it was "Worcester.
WILLIAM HENRY LIBBIS . I a dealer in china and antique furniture at 112, Gray's Inn Road—I have been in that business thirty years—I hare been present in Court and heard the evidence of various witnesses as to the purchase at small prices and frequent sales, which I confirm—I know something myself of Bristol china; I have bought it very cheaply and sold it very dearly—I once bought a cup for Is. and sold it for 5l., and I remember similar instances in the experience of other dealers.
Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I refer to Bristol china—I had the Bristol cup by me for which I gave 1s., and when the rage was for that china I took it out and sold it—Bristol china is very valuable amongst a few—I daresay I had the cup in my possession six or seven, years; I bought it at a sale; I did not know it was Bristol at the time.
JOHN EYLES . I carry on business at Hanway Street—I am a. dealer in china and antique furniture—I have been a dealer all my life—I have heard the various gentlemen examined, and I agree in their statements that it is a habit to buy china cheaply and sell it dearly—I saw a Bristol—tea service purchased for 16s. and it fetched 20l. in auction afterwards—I also know of a Worcester teapot being bought for 1l. and sold afterwards for 45l.
MR. LICKFOLD. I am a solicitor, engaged with Messrs. Lewis & Lewis; managing most of their business—at the last Session I prepared "this" affidavit (produced) whichhas reference to Mendoza'a absence in Paris—I saw Mr. Mendoza before the previous Session at this Court, the last Session but one, when the case was postponed at the instance of the prosecution, because of the absence of Mr. Wertheimer—I took a deposition from Mr. Mendoza in the ordinary wayy and I subpœnaed him to—attend, here—the next Session I ascertained that ie had gone Paris—I hav-e made every effort to find him, but have been unable to do so, or his "address; I—believe He was not here last Session.
WILLIAM DUNNING . I am a furniture salesman—I know Mr. Jewell—1 went on the 19th October with a message for him to Mr. Mendoza—I was present on that date in Mr. Jewell's shop when Mr. Mendoza Mr. Salting, and Mr. Jewell were there—I did not know then who they were, but I do now—Mr. Jewell on that occasion asked me to take a parcel round to 27, Bloomsbury Squre—that was between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening—I found Mr. Mendoza, the old gentleman; he opened the door, and I said "I have brought a parcel from Mr. Jewell'"—I went on another errand that day for Mr. Jones; about an hour afterwards, but Mr. Mendoza was not at home the second time—I went back and told Mr. Jones.
Cross-examined by MR. STAIGHT. When I first went round to Mendoza the gentlemen were not in the shop—I only saw Mr. Jewell—I am a furniture salesman, but often at Mr. Jewell's—I am employed by his brother, next door but one—he is a furniture dealer—I never saw Mr. Salting until the present time to know him—I won't swear to seeing him on the 19th, because they were too far away for me to see who they were—they might have heard the conversation between Mr. Jones and myself—but the shop is very long.
Jewell received an excellent character.—
JEWELL and CLARK— NOT GUILTY
LYNN—GUILTY— Eighteen Months Imprisonment. —
WILMORE—GUILTY— Five Years'Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, February 1st, 1876.
other articles, his property— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.
MR. C. MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE SANDERS . I am assistant to George Thompson, a pawnbroker, of 48, New North Road—I sleep on—the premises—on 7th January, about 11.30, I fastened up the house, and secured the first floor landing window by a catch—about 1.451 heard a dog bark, and awoke my fellow-servant—I went into a back room and heard a rattle springing—I stood at the street door and saw constable Doughty, who made a communication to me—I returned upstairs and he followed me—I then saw the prisoner with his legs and part of his legs and part of his body through—the window which I had secured overnight, and which was then open, there are bars inside the window, and there was a bradawl inserted in it to help it up—the policeman pulled the prisoner into the Tiouse—he said "'Help"—two constables came, and one of them went into the back yard and brought back the jemmy and dark Lin-tern—the prisoner said he would use the jemmy in self-defence.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. The bars are about 12 inches high and 7 inches wide—I did not know that you were fixed, and I did not think you could get through—I just pricked you in the thigh seven times with this swofdstick.
SAMUEL DOUGHTY (Policeman K 107). Iwas on duty and saw the prisoner half in and half out of the first floor landing window, which was partly open—I sprang my rattle, Sanders let me in, and I saw the prisoner in the window—I pulled him through and took him into custody—I found this jemmy and dark lantern—I searched the prisoner and found this rope, and this American glass cutter—I found this gimlet in the window to keep it up, and this mask and hat outside the window—I took him to the station, and on the charge being read over, he told me that I should have done the same if I had been out of work for three months.
Cross-examined. You offered no resistance but you were kicking very violently in the window—Sanders was using a sword stick—I was present when the surgeon examined me—I saw seven marks of wounds, on your thighs.
By THE COURT. The jemmy is loaded in this way (with lead) as a life preserver, and he told me he should use it to defend himself—I found it below him in the yard.
Prisoner's Defence. I have suffered greatly from being stabbed—I was in great distress—this is my first offence.
GUILTY — Five Years' Penal Servitude
MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution.
Stamford Hill—on the-night of 20th January I went to bed-after examining the house and leaving all safe and the hall door chain up,"as far as I know—my children's money boxes were in the dining room—I heard a noise about 1 o'clock, got up, and finding the house as I left it, went to bed again—I heard another noise about 3 o'clock and my wife went into the nurse's room; she then came back and I went down and found the dining-room door wide open and the keys in—the money boxes—the key of one cupboard had been left in another cupboard, when we retired to rest—10l. or 11l. was in the money boxes, and it was all gone except two small coins—Hickmott had been In my service-three months—she was under notice to leave on that day, Thursday, the 20th, but she had agreed to stay until the following morning—her box went away on the 19th—I identify this property (produced).
WILLIAM RALPH (Policeman M 160). On 21st January, about 1.30 a.m., I was on duty at Stamford Hill—I saw Clay'in soldier's uniform under a, lamp in Manor Road 2 or 3 yards from Mr. Mott's house and a woman by his side—they passed me and I saw that she was wearing this shawl—next morning at 9.55 I saw Clay at the station-house in his present dress.
FLORENCE ELIZABETH PEACOCK . On 21st January I was nurse at Mr. Mott's, and on that evening Hickmott and I went up to bed together but we slept in different rooms—I heard a noise in the night—this (produced) is Hickmott's clothes box, it had been'taken downstairs on the 29th, previous to her going, and it war sent away directed "Caroline Hickmott, Paddington Station, till called for."
SOLOMON GOLDSMITH . I am assistant to Moses & Sons, of Aldgate—on 20th January the two prisoners came there—Clay was in soldier's uniform—he bought the suit of clothes he now has on, and paid, to the best of my recollection 2l. 16s. for them—he also bought some shirts collars, boots, and a hat—it amounted altogether to something under 5l—he paid out of his own pocket—when he was trying the trousers on I asked him if he was going to leave the service, he said "Yes, she has bought me off; I should never have sufficient money to pay for it"—he went away in the, uniform carrying the clothes under his arm.
JAMBS ARMSTONG (Detective Officer M). Early on 21st January, Mr. Mott gave me information and I went to Paddington station at 8.30, and wafted there till 4 p.m., when the two prisoners drove up in a cab and went to the booking-office and claimed the box—I—told Clay I believed him to be a soldier who I saw with the girl in Manor Road—he said "Very well"—I put them into a cab and told them I should charge fhem with being concerned in stealing 10l. from No. 8 Manor Road—Hickmott said "It is all through you or else I should not have done it"—he said "Don't say that Carry, I knew you would"—she said "You know it was, I should not have done it if it had not been through you at all"—he said "Then we will both die together before we get to the b——station"—she said "Yes, so we will"—he said "But you had better tear up all the papers, and it will take them all the b——time to find! me out"—he said tome "Look here, I will give you a sovereign to let us go"—I said "I want no sovereign, you will have to go the station"—he said "I will knock you b——head through the cab window"—Hickmott pulled some papers-out of her pocket and tore them up—I made a snatch at them, and said "Don't do "that"—Clay said "Now you are clever, but you have not got it"—I said "Very well"—he said "Now you nave torn—everything up, have not you?"—she
said "Yes"—he said "Ob, but here is; the b——: umbrella," and threw it out at the window into the road—I stopped, the cab and it was picked up—he said "Now there is nothing else, all that we have got belongs to me mind"—she said "Yes, it is all yours"—he said "Now we are. all right they may do what they b——can"—I found a comforter under the cab seat which had been on Hickmott's arm at the railway station, and Clay said in the station "That is my property"—the box was searched and it contained all these things—I searched Clay and found on him about 3l. 17s. and some halfpence.
Cross-examined by Clay. When I put my hands on each of you the railway people fetched a cab; I did not tell you that you ought to be where Henry Wainwright is now.
The Prisoner's Statements before the Magistrate. Clay says: When I saw her on the morning of the 20th, she had not got a blessed halfpenny in her pocket, and the money I purchased these clothes with my sister sent to me, some of it, and not only that, I had some sporting money coming to me; I deny using bad language in the cab with the officer; he did not want to take me, only my wife, but I would go with him." Hickmott says: "I wish to say I had no, money when I left, Mr. Mott's house; heard Mr. Mott come home, and I heard him go to bed, and I heard the same noise that, he heard; I opened the night nursery door and listened; I heard Mr. Mott come out of bedroom door, and when he went into his bedroom I went back into, the nursery; about 1.15 I went downstairs, I saw a light before I got downstairs; before I got down to the bottom of the stairs the light was gone; I saw the dining-room and drawing-room doors were wide open; I went straight to the front door, it was not chained; I opened it and went out."
HICKMOTT— GUILTY— Judgment respited. CLAY— GUILTY — Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
163. CORNELIUS REYNOLDS (44) and GEORGE WISE (28), were indicted (with Thomas Barton and Samuel Gibbs not in custody) for conspiring to obtain divers monies from Thomas Andrew Walker, with intent to defraud.
MESSES. BESLEY and HORACE AVORY conducted, the Prosecution; and Mr. MONTAGU WILLIAMS defended Reynolds.
JOHN COE . I am cashier to Mr. Walker, a contractor for the South London Railway—Wise was in his employ in October last, as foreman of the carpenters, and Reynolds has been in the employment—Barton was the timekeeper, and Gibbs was a foreman of carpenters—he left last year—there were a great many gatekeepers—at the beginning of the day the men pass in by the gatekeeper—each man has. a separate number, and the gate keeper hands the numbers over to the timekeeper, who goes round at least four times a day, and puts a distinguishing mark to represent whether it is the first, second, third, or fourth walk of the day—the men are paid at the end of the week according to the timekeeper's book—it is the duty of tho foreman of the carpenters to superintend the work, and to know whether they were at work—I received some information from Mr. Lee, in consequence of which I made a communication to Mr. Walker—this is Barton's time book; it is in Barton's writing—during the week ending 8th October, I find, here that a man named Moore worked fifty-eight hours and a half, and a man named Beckford sixty-two hours, and that they were paid that
week—about 23rd December I received, a communication. from; Bartqn—I do not know here Barton is now—at the time he disappeared; one week's wages—were due to him.
Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. Reynolds was sub-foreman under Gibbs, and was succeeded by, Wise, who became foreman—Reynolds left about June last—the men are now under the foreman's orders—.
Cross-examined by Wise You were supposed to be, at the pay table when the men were paid on Saturday unless you were engaged, on the works.
Re-examined. The foreman of the carpenters was paid at the same table as all the other men—he could not perform his. duty without seeing the other men—he saw them at least two or three times a day—twenty or thirty men were under Wise's' control, and. a number of others would be working close by.
WALTER PARKER . I am "a clerk in Mr. Parker's employ, it is my' duty to be present at the pay table, and pay the men—it was Barton's duty to tick off the men as they were paid—on 8th October I paid Moore No. 859, 2l. 11s., which was fifty-eight hours and & half at 8 1/2 d.; an hour—this (produced) is the Book upon which I paid—it is in, the writing of a clerk in the office, and is my guide to hand over the money—I also paid No. 882 1l. 10s. 6d., which was sixty-two hours at 6d., less.6d. for the sick fund—Barton's work is not in this book."
Cross-examined. The time is given by Barton in another book if man is not down for payment—I should pass him—the foreman used very, often to present himself for the money, but not. always.
GEORGE MOORE . I am a carpenter, of 29, St. Vincent. Street—at the latter end of September, or the beginning of October, I was working for Mr. Walker—Barton was working there as a labourer under—Wise, butinot in my gang—Wise spoke to me in October and told me to get out at Stepney station as Gibbs wanted to borrow a carpenter and a labourer for three or four days and it would be a chance of making a bob or two, and likewise some overtime;—I went and worked at a temporary bridge, and Beckford also weat half an hour afterwards—we worked there all the week—Wise came to my house on the Friday night and asked me to meet him at the George at 1 o'clock next day and he would pay me the overtime, and I could go to Walker's and get my full week's pay—I went on the Saturday to the George public-house at 1 o'clock with Beckford, and saw Wise there—he paid me for the over-, time and paid Beckford as well—I then went to Walker's office and received. a week's wages, fifty-eight and a half hours at 8 1/2d., end Beckford too—I believe I was paid first—I saw, him paid—I got—nothing; more—on the Monday morning I went to Mr. Walker's and remained two hours—I then went back to Stepney, where I saw Gibbs and Reynolds superintending the work on the temporary bridge—I continued, there the whole of the week—during the week I said to Gibbs In Reynold's presence "This is a dirty piece of business," and that I ought to have 2s. from each of them—Gibbs said "Don't take any notice, I will pay you"—by "a dirty piece of business "I meant that I did not get any of the money—they did not divide the plunder with me—Gibbs asked me to come and work for him again that week, and I went and he paid me—I did not go to Walker's—I only had four days and a half—about the third or fourth week in November I went and saw Reynolds at his house—I was sent for—he asked me if I would come and—work for him—I told him "Yes"—he said that I could start for him next morning
—I told him that Wise said he only had 7s. 6d.—he said "It is a lie, he had 27s. 6d., and Barton a sovereign"—I saw Wise after that and told him what Reynolds told me; he made no answer—when I was working for Reynolds he said "You have made a damned disturbance about this, and it has got to Mr. Walker's ears"—I said I could not help it if I had—Wise afterwards came to my house and declared that he knew nothing at all about the affair and I must do the same—I said that I should act fair as far as what I was concerned and nothing further—I saw him again on the Saturday morning previous to his being taken, when he said that I was to swear I knew nothing at all about it—on the Sunday night Gibbs and Wise called at my house—they asked me how I got on, and I said "I have made a clean breast of the affair"—Gibbs said "I suppose you have exonerated yourself"—I said "I don't know much about that"—I did not see Gibbs after that—I mentioned to Wise and Gibbs that I had been to Walker's solicitor—my number at Walker's was 859.
Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. I said before the Magistrate "It was was only from Gibbs and Wise that I had orders about the work and money"—I had worked for Reynolds before, and he had paid me honestly.
Cross-examined by Wise. Gibbs was not in the George on the Saturday when you paid me—it was you who paid me.
JOHN BECKPORD . I am a labourer—I was working for Mr. Walker in October—Wise was my foreman—he came to me and told me to go down with Moore, the carpenter, to Stepney Green—he said nothing about payment—on Saturday I went to the George public-house and saw Wise and Gibbs—nothing passed, but I got a few shillings; Wise, I believte, gave them to me—after that I Avent to Walker's pay-office with Moore and received a week's wages, I do not know, who from—I saw Wise again on the next Monday at Mr. Walker's office, but I never had any particular conversation with him afterwards—I saw Mr. Walker's solicitor and Inspector Palmer, but I did'not see Wise after that—I saw him on the Saturday or Monday before I saw Palmer, and he said that he expected there would be a bother about my going to Stepney and getting the work—I said that I could not help it.
JOSEPH LEE . I live at Bush Road, Deptford, and am employed on railway work—in consequence of something Beckford said to me I spoke to Mr. Walker—on the 4th January, about 7.45 a.m., I was in Gladson's public-house, Old Gravel Lane—Reynolds—was there and another man—I did not feel very well, and went in for 2d.—worth of rum and milk—Reynolds said "That is the b——old s——that has done all the mischief, and before he goes out I will snout him"—I said "I hope you are not addressing that conversation to me"—he said "Yes, I am," and came up and put his face close to mine—I said "Don't strike me for God's sake, for I am half dead now"—he pulled his coat off, and I was pinned in a corner—he said "I have sent Gibbs off, and will have your b——liver out and throw it into the Thames"—I cannot tell you half of what he said; he said "You have been at Walker's an hour and a half at once, you and Mr. Bastoville; I got it from the office"—I said "I never was there half an hour in, my life;" the landlord was there during part of that—I did not see Gibbs afterwards—I do not know Barton.
Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. Francis Vanston is the landlord—I did not hear Reynolds say "Youhave been saying thingsabout me at Walker's that I know nothing of"—the landlord was there, and he was examined before the Magistrate—Reynolds did not tell me in the public-house that
they were going to get him into a bother, and he should not stop to be dragged into it—I was not very much excited, I was too bad—he was going to-hit me—he did not say "You have got Gibbs away," he said "I have got him away."
FRANCIS VANSTON . I keep the White Lion public-house, Old Gravel Lane—I have known Reynolds some time, and have supplied him with refreshment—while he was talking to a friend Lee came in and spoke to him—a loud conversation ensued, and Lee said "I hope you are not insinuating towards me"—he said "You vagabond and scoundrel, you have been to Mr. Walker's office," and he took off his coat and said "Standup and I will fight you"—he said "Don't strike me, I am all to pieces already"—I believe he was suffering from illness, he had a wrapper round his neck—Reynolds said "Frank, I am likely to be drawn into this matter, and I shall go into the country for a few days"—I do not know that I heard anything about Bastoville—I do not know Gibbs or Barton, or where Barton is.
Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I have kept the public-house ten years—I have no interest in coming here.
BENJAMIN ABRAHAMS . I am the nephew of one of the contractors for building this bridge—I received this card from Reynolds or Gibbs, I do not know which, and entered into arrangements with one of them—I cannot say for certain whether it was in writing—it was with my uncle—it is in our subcontract book, which is not here—my uncle and myself were in the office when the contract was made, and Reynolds and Gibbs were both there—I think Reynolds spoke first, and then he turned round to his partner; they—wanted 5 ¼d. per foot, and my uncle offered 4 1/2d., and they split the difference—the work was erecting a temporary stage at Stepney Bridge.
Cross-examined. My uncle made the contract; he is at home.
WILLIAM PALMER (Policeman). I took Wise on the 3rd January, and read the warrant to him—he said "I did send Moore and a labourer to Stepney, I was asked to do so by Gibbs; I was not aware that Barton had booked their time to Mr. Walker"—I found Reynolds in custody on the 6th—I read the warrant to him; he said "I know nothing of it"—I had seen Reynolds about 10 o'clock the previous morning, and said "You were very quiet that morning round the corner"—he said "Very likely"—I cannot hnd Barton.
Wise's Defence. I had no further to do with the affair than sending the two men when Gibbs asked me to lend them.
GEORGE MOORE (re-examined). It was to Gibbs and Reynolds that I mentioned it being a dirty piece of business, and Gibbs spoke the reply; he said "Take no notice of that, I will pay you"—that was all—Reynolds said nothing at that time; he was there and heard what Gibbs said—when I went to Reynolds five weeks before Christmas I said that Wise said that he only received 75. 6d.—he said "It is all a lie, he received 27s. 6d. and Barton a sovereign."
Reynolds received a good diameter.
REYNOLDS— GUILTY — Twelve Months' imprisonment.
WISE— GUILTY — Eight Months' imprisonment.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, February 2nd, 1876.
Before Mr. Justice Brett.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL with MESSRS. POLAND and BOWEN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BUTT, Q.C., with MR. MINETT the Defence.
JOSEPH MAXEY . I am a clerk in the Registry of Seamen's Office of the Board of Trade—I produce a certified copy of the registry of the iron ship Oberon, a British ship belonging to Liverpool, a little over 1,180 tons—I also produce the official log of the Oberon. (Read: "1873. Nov. 14, 5.30 a.m. Minehead, bearing N about 20 miles. Strong breeze at ESE and dirty weather, ship close hauled on the starboard tack, proper and efficient look outs placed and side lights burning bright; sighted a green light on our port bow; we held our wind; about ten minutes after, seeing that the vessel did not give way and that a collision was inevitable, put the helm hard a port and instantly let go the after braces we struck the vessel somewhere about midship, we separated directly, each on opposite tacks—as soon as we could shorten sail and cleared away the wreck we wore round and stood back to look for the other vessel, but could see nothing of her; I do not know what damage she received; we lost jibboom and all head gear; two of the vessel's men got on board of us, they reported that their vessel was not damaged below the decks, only the bulwarks. She was the Italian brigan-tine Java, from Buenos Ayres for Liverpool; I consider that she bore up for Queenstown as she did not show any lights and signals of distress, and also that the men reported that their captain intended before the collision to bear up for that port at daylight. (Signed), Henry "Towill, master. G. Jamieson, mate."
FORTUNATO PARASCANDOLO (interpreted). I am an Italian, and am twenty-seven years of age—I have always been at sea since I was nine years old—in September, 1873, I was a seaman on board the Chiavari, a three-masted schooner, built of wood; I could not exactly say her tonnage—in September, 1873, we sailed from Buenos Ayres for Liverpool with fourteen hands on board, all told—on 14th November we were off the coast of Ireland, I was not on watch, I was down below—I heard the ship's bell ring about 4.30 or 5 o'clock in the morning—I went on deck as soon as I heard the bell and they called out below—the captain and crew were on deck—I saw another vessel a very short distance off, about 1 1/2 yards—we were on the port taek—she was on the starboard taek—she came into collision with us; I now know that vessel to be the Oberon; she struck us amidship; as soon as she struck us the Chiavari leaned on one side—the Oberon had all her sails set, they were drawing—we were carrying low sails—she struck us on the starboard side—it was dark, I could not exactly state what effect the collision had on our vessel; as soon as it took place I jumped on board the Oberon—I did not notice the figure head of the Oberon—her jibboom and bowsprit were right across the midships of our vessel—our people cried out "Help! help!" and called the Blessed Virgin to their aid—the collision gave a great shock, our vessel oscillated'a little and gave way to the other side—all our men were on deck at the time of the collision—I got onboard the Oberon by getting hold of the chain attached to the bowsprit—another fellow-seaman, Eugenie Giacomucci, also got on board—two or three other sailors were trying to do so, but they got hold of the jibboom, which broke away, and I believe they fell back on the Chiavari—when we got on board the Oberon she backed out, that was a very short while after the collision, I could not state how long—I then saw our vessel, we could not see the whole of her, we could only just see the bulwarks—the Oberon put her sails aback and remained in that position, nothing further; she then went on the port
tack—I did not hear any cries or anything said from our vessel as the Oberon was backing out—I saw our vessel for about ten minutes after I got on board the Oberon, I could not exactly say the time—she was on the port side, I could not exactly see what became of her, she must have gone-down; I have never seen or heard of her since—we spoke to some one on board the Oberon and told them to lower the boats to render assistance; we were making signs with our hands to the sailors on board to lower the boats—I cannot speak any English—as soon as they put the sails of their vessel right they made us go into the captain's cabin—then sails were put so as to take the port taek—there was a strong wind—I found that the cook could understand some Italian—I found that out when we—were asked to go into the small cabin, when he brought us some coffee; that was about half or three quarters of an hour after the collision—we asked the cook to lower some boats so that we might go and give assistance to our companions—I afterwards saw the captain (the defendant)—Giacomucci and the cook were with me—in the captain's presence the cook asked us some questions; I could not say exactly how long that was after the collision, it was about three quarters of an hour after—he asked us first the name of our vessel and then what damage was done to her—I said damage there was a good deal done, but I could not state what damage really was done to the vessel—the Oberon continued on the port tack about two or three hours; I could not state exactly, I had no watch—the captain afterwards called us to the poop, I could not state the time; we had then been on the starboard tack a little while—the captain asked us through the—cook if we had any casks on deck and what colour they were—we said they were painted white with black hoops—I did not see any casks in the sea—I had helped to stow the cargo of the Chiavari at Buenos Ayres—we had barrels of tallow, bones and some hides on board—the tallow was in the hold, amidships—I saw some tallow on the prow of the Oberon close by the martingale when it was clear, in the morning and when we were on the port tack—the only damage I saw done to the Oberon was the jibboom, that was broken and the martingale was damaged—I believe she had a figure head—if the other sailors had had courage we could have lowered the boats and rendered assistance to the other sailors—the weather was not very good, it was bad weather; the sea was rather roughish—nothing was done on board the Oberon to assist the Chiavari after the collision—we afterwards arrived in Liverpool—I stayed there forty-seven days—the Chiavari never arrived there and was never heard of afterwards—some time after the Board of Trade inquiry I went back to Italy—I arrived in London last Saturday—I was brought from Marseilles in an Italian man-of-war.
Cross-examined by MR. BUTT. The collision took place directly after I got on deck—I mean to state on my oath that the 'Oberon's sails were drawing when I got on deck; there were none of them aback—I could not say whether the lee-braces had been let go before the collision; if they had been let go the sails would not have been taken aback directly—the Oberon, came on the starboard side and then she went on the port tack—she was on the port tack when I came on deck—I could not say to what point of the compass she was heading, because we were on the prow of the vessel—she backed out of us, her sails were aback then, she had all plain sail on—she went stern ways—she went astern a quarter to half a mile; she got good sternway on her—they did not haul up the courses to stop her sternway—when they were backing astern they slackened the sails to stop her way;
they took the sails away, because it was very bad weather—she was going right before the wind—when there is a desire to lower the boats to save people's lives it does not matter what sea there is on—I mean to swear that they could have pulled a ship's boot against the wind for half a mile that night; if we could have seen the vessel we might have done so—as soon us they stopped her sternway they set-to to clear away the wreck, the gear of the bowsprit, and one thing and another at her bow—she was on the port tack while they were clearing away, she was sailing—they did not put her on the port tack to go after the other ship; theyput her on the port tack so as to get out of the way—our vessel was on the port tack at the time of the collision, sailing by the wind—I do not remember how the wind was; when the Oberon went on the port tack I could not say whether it was the same tack that our vessel was on, they took their own course—she was close hauled on the port tack—we had some sails up at the time of the collision, but very small ones; we were under very low sails—we earned square sails on one mast only—the captain of the Oberon took off the greater part of his canvas when he went on the port tack, he went away on the port tack under very low canvas—the reason why I think he was running away from our ship is, because he went on the port tack—I thought so the very moment that he put on the port tack—we gave a hand with the ropes to get her on the port tack—we ought to have gone on the starboard tack to have gons in search of our vessel—I did not think it was to go in search of our vessel—I was examined at Liverpool about two years ago, I do not write, I did not put a mark to my deposition that I remember, or remember its being read over to me—no doubt we were on deck rendering assistance, but it was not to go round to the other vessel—I did not swear at Liverpool that I lent a hand at the ropes, and that I thought the manoeuvres were made to go round to our vessel—I think it was to go away from her—we were helping to try to keep the vessel on the port tack—when the collision took place they could not do otherwise than put her on the port tack—the manoeuvres could not have been intended to help those on our vessel—I did say so—I first formed an opinion that our vessel had sunk when we heard nothing of her, when we got to Liverpool—we could not see whether she had gone down or not, but we could not see anything of her—I did not know whether she was damaged below the water line or not, I could not exactly say what damage was done—I do not know what Giacomucci said, he is here, he can answer for himself—I did not hear him say so to the captain when we were called aft to him—the Oberon stood on the port tack until the morning—if we were on the port tack, how could we have been on the look-out for the Chiavari, they were not looking for her—it was before midday that they put on the starboard tack, I cannot say the hour, it was when he put the vessel again on the starboard tack that he asked about the casks—that was before midday; after we had sailed a little while on the starboard tack—it is impossible for me to judge how far we had sailed, I do not think we had got back to the place of collision, it is impossible for me to say—it was a strong blow that struck our ship, very heavy, because she leaned on the other side—I said at Liverpool that it was a good blow, I did not say "very heavy," if the'interpreter added words, I don't know—I could not say whether our vessel sailed away for some distance on the port tack after the collision, because we could not see her, the last time I saw her was about ten minutes after the collision, I could not see the vessel, it was so dark we could not see her lights, they carried
screens, if we were more than two points abaft the beam, of course we could not sec them, we could see one of the sails, because it was new and white.
Re-examined. Our bunks were on deck—I had been asleep before the collision, I was awoke by the ringing of the bell—when I came on deck I did not hear our captain give any order, because he was on the poop and we were on the prow—the starboard light was a green light, we put it close by the poop, the Oberon struck us right in the centre, amidships, I cannot say how far forward of the light—the jibboom. of the Oberon came just on the prow. side of the mainmast—I did not take any notice of the light after the collision—we were sailing for some few hours before the collision, at break of day we should have gone into Queenstown to receive orders, we were standing off and on till daylight should come—we helped with the ropes as soon as we got on board the Oberon, it is impossible for me to tell the time after we got clear of the Chiavari that the Oberon was put on the port tack.
EUGENIO GIACOMUCCI (Interpreted). I am an Italian—I was a sailor on board the Chiavari—it was my watch at the time the collision took place—I had been on watch about three quarters of an hour, or an hour—when the collision took place our vessel was on the port tack, she was carrying veiy few sails; I was just on the top of the poop: the captain was also on deck, and all those that were on the watch, about half of the men on board; there were fourteen on board—we saw the green light of the Oberon, about seven or eight minutes before the collision—we first saw the green light, and then the red light; I could not say how long after—I could not say how many minutes before the collision, it was that I saw the red light, about three or four minutes—when we saw her sails, she was already close upon us, her sails were all with the wind, they were drawing—we were struck amidship, it was a good blow—our foremast went down—the Oberon came in about the middle of our deck; I saw her figure head—other men had come up from below, I was in the poop and as soon as I saw our vessel was open I ran and caught hold of the jibboom, when the Oberon was backing—we had tallow, bones, and hides on board—I could not state exactly what damage was done to our vessel, all I can say is we could see the barrels down below in the hold from the holes that were made in the Chiavari—when the deck was broken we could see them—I saw the water come in from the same hole, the deck was cut through; I could not say how far—I got on board the Oberon by the jibboom; they were then trying to look after the damage that was done to their ship; she backed out and then she put on the port tack—I saw some others of our men try to get on board the Oberon, I heard cries of "Aid! help! the Blessed Virgin! Saints!" they were calling out in distress—I don't know how far the Oberon, went astern before the was put on the port tack—after I got on board her X saw one of the sails of the Chivari's mainmast, I did not see her lights, I did not pay any attention.,—the light of the Chivari was not touched by the collision, because it was on the poop—I was standing close to it—the Chiavari must have gone down—I did not see her go down; I never saw her after I got on board the Oberon; I only saw one of the sails—she remained in her place; I could not say whether she was going on or not, after I got on board the Oberon, when I got on board I met the cook and told him we had better lower one of the boats to save the lives of the sailors—I could not exactly state whether the Chivari was then in sight, I could not say how long she was in sight after I got on board the Oberon, because I was not looking; all we could see was the hull—I could not exactly state bow long it was after I met the
cook that I saw the captain of the Oberon—we were sent for by the captain, they asked us what name our vessel was, and what was the name of the captain—I do not remember exactly whether that was before or after the Oberon was put on the port tack—when I got on board she was backing astern, and then of course she was put on the port tack after the cook took us into the caboose; I could not state how far she was backed before she was put on the port tack, about half a mile, I could not exactly say—I don't remember whether I saw the captain before or after she had been put on the port tack—he asked us what colour our vessel was painted, and if there was a great deal of damage, we said that she was damaged, but as it was dark we could not state what damage was done—I told him that the foremast had fallen down—later in the morning I was spoken to about the barrels; I did not see the barrels myself; the ship was then on the star board tack; I could not say how long she had been so, the captain said that he had seen two barrels painted white with black hoops—he did not say how long before he seen them or where, he only said that he had seen them—the barrels on board the Chivari were white, they were on deck, water casks—I afterwards saw some tallow on the prow of the Oberon; it was under the water, right on the martingale where the sea was coming, lower down than the figurehead—I saw no attempt made to lower the boats or to assist the Chivari—in my judgmeut they could have lowered some boats, it was a sea that a small boat could very well have lived in—the sailors who tried to get on board the Oberon fell backwards, I believe on board the Chiavari.
Cross-examined by MR. BUTT. I told the captain that the foremast of our vessel had fallen—I was examined at Liverpool, I believe we said something about it then, but I do not remember exactly—our foreyard came down before the mast—it must have come down before—I could not speak English, and the captain could not speak Italiau—what was said was through the cook's interpretation—I believe I spoke about the foremast having come down—I remember perfectly well to have said something about it—I am certain I did—I swear that the foremast did fall—the foremast is in three pieces, and not all of it fell—it was the fore part of it that came down, the top of the foretopmast—she had not a foretop gallant mast—we had five sails altogether, two on the foremast, and two on the foretop—it was only the foretop mast that came down, not the foremast—I was on deck as watch a long while before the collision, we were on the port tack, close hauled, with our sails to the wind—I could not say what wind it was—the Oberon was sailing on the starboard tack—I could not say in what direction our vessel was heading by the compass, I was not at the helm—the green light I saw was on the starboard side, I saw it from the poop—I first saw the green light, and then the red light—I swear I saw the green light on our starboard side—our vessel was close hauled, only going very slowly—the lights of the Oberon could be seen—I think she was running free when I saw the green light, running before the wind—as soon as the collision took place the Oberon's sails were a back—I mean soon after the collision, I could not see at the moment of the collision—I could not swear whether the Chiavari went down at the time or not, but of course as there has been nothing beard of her since I came to that conclusion—I never saw her afterwards—I certainly believed that she had gone down from the collision, while I was on board the Oberon; before daylight she must have gone down—I did not tell anybody on board the Oberon that if she had
not been damaged below deck, she would not have gone down—I told the captain there was damage done, but I did not assure him of the damage that was done—it was damaged, but I did not see it—I recollect being examined before the Magistrate at Bow Street—I did not believe that the vessel was damaged below decks—I believed she had sunk because she was damaged—if she had not been damaged below deck she could not have gone down—at the Board of Trade inquiry I said that the ship was damaged and nothing else, and I made a sign with my hand—I believed on that night that she had gone down, of course I did not see whether she went down or not—directly I got on board I went and asked the cook to have some boats lowered—I do not remember whether it was after I had been on board half an hour, but I know I told the cook to lower a boat—when I spoke to the cook the sails were still aback—I do not remember whether I said at Liverpool that we had been on board half an hour before we had any conversation with the cook; it is such a long time past—the tallow on the stem of the Oberon was discovered after daylight when she was on the starboard tack—there was a high swell at the time of the collision, and a pretty fair wind.
Re-examined. I spoke to the cook before I went into the caboose with him, I don't know how many minutes before; the first words that I spoke to him were about the boat—I can't say exactly how long it was after the collision before it became daylight; the collision took place about 5 o'clock—it was not exactly daylight when they went on the starboard tack—I could not exactly say how long it was after seeing the Oberon's green light, that I saw the red light—I saw the green light from the poop, and it was bearing towards the right—I could not say how far it was off, it was seven or eight minutes before the collision—if she had kept on her course she would have passed astern of us—after the collision I saw the tallow barrels in the hold, through the chasm that was made in the deck.
GEORGE CLARK . I was cook on board the Oberon; it was my first voyage in her from Liverpool to Calcutta—I was on deck from 4 a.m. till 8 p.m.—on the morning of the 14th November, when we were off the coast of Ireland, I was on deck; we were on the starboard tack—I can't exactly say how we were heading; we were close by the wind—about 4.45 or thereabouts I saw the green light of a vessel approaching us; it afterwards turned out to be the Chiavari—we saw her light between twelve and fifteen minutes—the captain was sent for shortly before the collision; he came on deck as soon as he was called—the second mate called him—I should say he was on deck two or three minutes before the collision occurred—the second mate gave orders to the man at the wheel to keep her close to the wind—when the captain first came on deck he was on the poop; I can't say how long he remained there; his orders were to let go the lee sheets—the" Oberon struck the Chiavari about midships, I should say; I don't remember on which side—I heard the crash of our jibboom going; that was all I heard; it was carried away, broken—I did not see what happened to the Chiavari; I was standing on the main hatch at the time—after the collision our yards were backed—our sails were aback at the time of the collision—I should say we went astern about half a mile—all our sails were backed—the wind was carrying us aback rapidly—I did not hear what orders were given to the helmsman; the yards were braced; the first order was to clew up the topgallant sails and courses—by getting our sails down and bracing the yards, that would bring her on the port tack; that was done when we
had got about half a mile, I should say, by the rate we were going; them we stood on the port tack—we were only under topsails then; the other sails were clewed up; they remained clewed up until we got our wreckage in, our head-gear under the bow—when we had got that in we stood on on the same tack—I don't remember that we put more sail on, it is so long ago, and I did not pay much atteution at the time—I could not say what sail we set; it is not part of my business to set the sails, or to be on deck—I should be in the galley at that time attending to my duty—I did not keep any watch—I could not say how long we remained on the port tack, we remained on it till daylight—we then went about on the starboard tack; that was daylight, some time after the collision—we remained on the starboard tack for some time—I did not see the Chiavari when our sails were aback, and we were going astern; I did not look—I was in the galley at the time, after the collision—I was in and out on the deck—I did not pay any particular attention to the collision; I saw the collision—after we had got astern a certain distance I went into the galley—after a time I heard that there were two men aboard of us from the other vessel; we were going aback when I heard that—they spoke to me—I speak some Italian, fluently enough to understand what is said to me—it must have been about twenty minutes after the collision when I first saw them—some of our men said there were two foreigners aboard, and I went and saw them and took them into the galley and gave them some coffee—the captain sent for them, and I went with them; that must have been fully half an hour after the collision—at that time we were standing on the port tack; I am sure of that—I interpreted for them—the captain told me to ask them if they thought their vessel was seriously damaged—I did so; they said they did not think she was seriously damaged below the water, below the deck—I told the men that—the captain asked what she was loaded with—they said with tallow, bones, and hides, and she was bound from Buenos Ayres; that was all that was said at that time—about two hours after, as near as I could judge, the captain sent for me to ask them if they had any water casks on deck—it was daylight then—they said she had two casks on deck—the captain asked what colour—they said they were painted white, with black hoops—the captain said he thought they were painted lead colour-instead of white; he said he saw the casks in the water just about the time that I was there—I did not see them; I understood that he had seen them just before he had sent for me—I think we were on the starboard tack then—I could not say how long we had been so—I don't remember whether the ship had gone about just before I was sent for—we must have gone about again—I don't understand the working of the ship—that was all that was said at that time, we were about sixteen sailors in crew—our cargo was grain—before the collision we had all plain sails set—I should say we had been on the port tack about half an hour or twenty minutes before the men were brought to me; I could not say the exact time—I can't say how long it was after we went on the port tack before we got in our wreckage—after the collision I saw nothing of the Chiavari.
Cross-examined by MR. BUTT. I first saw the Chiavari's green light; that would be on the port bow, about two points and a half, I should say—I should say she never was on cur starboard bow before the collision—I don't think they could see our green light when they were two points and a half on our port bow—I should say they were screened in the usual way—our red light would be full in view and not our green light, that being on our port bow—I did not feel any shock on board; of course a vessel striking you
that way with a great shock would throw you off your feet—our sails were backed to clear us of the other ship—we got a stern way on, and the courses were clewed up, and we let go the maintopgallant sails—men were sent aloft to furl them, and I distinctly heard the captain order them to keep a lookout for the other vessel—I did not hear him inquire of them whether they had been able to see her—I can't say whether any of the other hands were looking after her; I did not see—the Italian sailors said nothing to me about one of their masts having come down, or their foretop mast; I am sure of that—there was no one else on board that could speak Italian; there was a Frenchman, they were conversing with him; I don't know his name, he was one of the crew—I am sure they never mentioned it when we were with the captain; all their mention was about the foreyard, they said they thought that was gone; I think that was said before the captain, I am not sure—I did not see enough of the vessel to see how she was rigged—we had sixteen sailors on board, besides the officers and apprentices; I don't know the number exactly.
Re-examined. It was not when we were going aback that the men were sent aloft to furl the sails, it was when we came round on the port tack; the courses were clewed up while we were going aback; there were men forward on the look-out—we had boats on board.
GEORGE BOWMAN . I was carpenter on board the Oberon—on the morning of the collision, about 4.30 or 5 o'clock, I turned out of my bunk—all hands had been called on deck—I saw a vessel coming on our port bow—I saw her green light—I was on the deck when the collision took place—I consider we struck the other about amidships—I did not feel much of a shock on our vessel—I felt the jibboom going—I went to-get aft out of the road in case the fore topgallant mast came down in consequence of the collision—I afterwards went forward to the forecastle head; that was just immediately after the collision—I saw the two Italian sailors climbing on board the best way they could—I called out there were two men coming on board, and I called for the assistance of the other crew to stand by me, and the boatswain and one of the crew came to assist them if they required assistance—the captain, I suppose, might be aft or on the main deck, I can't exactly swear where he was—we backed out and went astern—the instant the captain was called on deck he gave orders to let go the lee after braces to deaden the ship's way, to stop the way; and he ordered the topsail and the fore topgallant halliards to be let go; that was when we actually struck—I heard that order distintly given; in fact, he went himself and let go—I did not hear anything about the helm—directly her lee braces were let go her yards were swung and she would deaden a little and come round on the port tack—as soon as we backed out I went and sounded the fore compartment; I found it tight—I then sounded the main pumps and found they were making no water—I dare say I might have reported that to the captain or the mate—I went to assist in getting the yards hauled round to get the vessel round on the port tack, and she was brought round on the port tack—a portion of our flying jibboom was carried away and the jibboom was hanging overboard in the water and all the head gear broken and gone; the martingale had gone—that might be the principal cause of the jibboom going, according to my judgment, by catching the other vessel's bulwarks—after the collision I saw the other vessel, she was standing just across our bow either a half or a quarter of a point to port, that was immediately after the collision—I don't know how long after; I
don't suppose it was more than a minute or a minute and a half—I felt the crash of the jibboom going, and I went forward in an instant—she seemed to me to be all right, what I saw of her the instant after the collision—I did not see anything gone, no more than her main-top mast staysail, that was all I saw gone—I did not see what became of her, we were making great stern way—I did not see her afterwards—a considerable time afterwards my attention was called to a piece of tallow about 3 inches in diameter, just as if it had been thrown on the stern—I think we went round the starboard tack when my attention was called to that—it was well into daylight—I could not say whether our stem had cut into the ship—I did not think the vessel had been hurt—I did not know till after I enquired of the cook what their vessel was loaded with, and he said with tallow, but I could not say where it came from—we had four boats on the Oberon—the two forward boats were life-boats—the two would hold about fifty people and the others about thirty in a case of emergency—they were in good condition.
Cross-examined. We got a good sternway on and after the collision I think we went astern for about half a mile, or perhaps three-quarters—we went to leeward—if we had lowered one of the life-boats, I don't believe the men could have pulled it half a mile to windward on that night, because they would have the wind and sea against them—there was a very rough sea on at the time, and what you might call a stiff topgallant sail breeze, I saw some men go aloft to furl the topgallant sails, and I heard the order given to keep a look out if they could see the other vessel—I believe the captain gave that order, and when they came down he asked them if anything was seen of the vessel, and they said no, I heard it said distinctly that they saw nothing of the other vessel—when I last saw her she was on the port tack, on the same tack as when we came into collision—she was a little on our port bow, about a quarter of a point when I last saw her, more on the port bow than right ahead from what I could see of her—I considered she was not seriously damaged; of course it was rather dark—I don't know which way the wind was, I don't understand it; I can't say which way she was heading—we were on the starboard tack before the collision; afterwards we went on the port tack that was the same tack as the other vessel when I last saw her—I should think that was the best chance of finding the other vessel, I was as anxiously looking out for her, I should say as any individual on board.
Re-examined. I was anxiously looking out to see if I could see her, which I dare say a good many individuals on board, besides myself were also doing—not because I thought she might have been seriously damaged, "merely just to see if I could see anything of her—I can't say that I thought she was seriously damaged, I did not think so, and I should be going against toy own judgment to say so—if she had been seriously damaged the captain may have stood away on the port tack as he did—he could not have done more than he did do—if he had thought she was sinking when we struck her it would have been right to go on the port tack—I consider the captain did what was right in coming round on the same tack as the other vessel, I am not supposed to be the judge of that—he came round on the port tack to give every assistance he possibly could to the vessel he was in collision with—this was my second voyage in a sailing vessel, I have not been above three years at sea altogether, I don't profess to be a nautical man; I was carpenter of the ship—I was doing my utmost in looking over
the side of the vessel shortly after the collision, while we were going round—I saw her at last a little on our port bow, and then I went on my duties—I last saw her just an instant after the collision; I saw no more of her, because I went to sound the fore compartment and the main pumps, then all hands were called to attend to the braces, to get the yards hauled round, and I went to assist—the first thing to be done was to get the vessel brought to the wind again, to bring her round on the port tack—I think that was the first thing that was done.
By MR. BUTT. After she was got round on the port tack her courses were clewed up, and the topgallant sails, and she was kept under the two lower topsails, close hauled to the wind—her topgallant sails were furled, and the large lower sails were clewed up, so that she would go very slowly on the port tack.
LUCAS PETER STUBBS . I am assistant clerk to the Borough Magistrates at Liverpool—I was present at the Court of Inquiry held at Liverpool, on the 13tb, 14th, and 15th December, 1873, it was a Board of Trade inquiry before the Magistrate, and two nautical assessors—after the witnesses had been examined the solicitor for the defendant put in a statement which he signed, this is it.
(This was put in and read; after some preliminary statement relative to the voyage, it proceeds to narrate the circumstances of the collision, as follows: "At about 5.30 I was called by the second officer who reported a green light on our port bow. I instantly went on deck and saw a green light from two to three points on lee bow. I directly ordered the man at the wheel to keep the ship close to the wind, reducing the speed from seven knots to about three, and the second officer to go forward to see if he could make out what the ship was doing. At this time we had a fresh breeze from S.E., ship headed E.N.E., wind increasing fast. About ten minutes after, seeing that the light was drawing very near and not showing her red light, and that a collison was inevitable, I ordered the helm hard down and the lee after braces to be let go, which was done immediately, and the main and cross jack yards immediately swung round. About the same time we came into collision with a three masted vessel, when all the sails were a back. I ordered the topgallant halyards to be let go, the ship backed astern directly. I never felt the slightest shock. The only thing I heard was the crash of our jibboom. Our ship having good stern away, I ordered the helm to be reversed, or hard a starboard, and the ship payed off to starboard; We got the yards hauled round and brought the ship to wind on the port tack, hauled up the courses and clewed up topgallant sails. I lost sight of the other vessel about five minutes after we separated. She was then about two points before our port beam. I considered that she must be still on the port tack I did not hear a sound from the other ship during the collision, either before or after, neither were any lights or signals of distress or sign of distress seen or reported. A ship at this time without any light could not be seen above 500 yards off. As soon as the ship was trimmed to the wind I ordered four hands to furl the topgallant sails and the rest to clear away the wreck forward. Carpenter to sound the pumps. Found the ship tight and the jibboom jibs and all head gear towing under the bows endangering the topmast and topgallant mast. Directly after we separated I called to the steward to know what time it was. He reported 6.20. Shortly after he reported to me that there were two of the vessel's men on board and that they were Italians and that the cook could understand them a little.
I sent for them and the cook directly and questioned them through the cook as to what the vessel was, where she was from and where bound, and particularly whether she had received any serious damage. They replied she was the Java (as we understood) from Buenos Ayres bound to Liverpool and that they did not think she was damaged below the decks—they also said that they were standing off the land under easy sail waiting for daylight the captain intending to bear up for Queenstown. When the hands were sent up to furl the mizen topgallant sails I ordered them to give a good look round to try if they could see anything of the vessel or any lights. When they came down I asked if they had seen anything and they said no, I myself was looking out on the poop all the time and a look out on the forecastle as well. At daylight about 7.30, blowing a strong breeze; thick and dirty, I judged that a vessel might have been seen three-quarters or a mile off; I then held a consultation with the chief officer and we concluded that she must have gone on the other tack. I then gave orders to wear ship, we having been under three topsails going very close to the wind about half a knot an hour since we parted. All the gear being cleared away and the mast secured got the ship round on the starboard tack and set the foresail. At 9 o'clock sent all hands to breakfast; at 10. blowing a strong topsail breeze and cloudy weather. Seeing nothing of the vessel. I had another consultation with the chief office and we considered that she must have borne up for Queenstown; we continued our search. At about 11 a.m., I saw two casks in the water. I sent for the cook and the two men and asked them whether they had any casks on deck; if so, what colour were they painted. They replied they had two painted white with black hoops. We continued our search; at 1 p.m., saw the land, bearing north; at 3 saw the Hook Light House, bearing N.E., distant about 3 miles, wind E, strong breeze, tacked ship, arrived off Holyhead at 5 p.m. on the 19th and took a steam tug for Liverpool and arrived in the Mersey at 9 a.m. on the 18th November. During the time I have been a master, I never had a collision or an accident of any description; I never had to make a claim on the underwriters except when my vessel was damaged in the Bay of Bengal and afterwards when damaged in the Arabian Sea being caught on both occasions in a Typhoon. (Signed) Henry Towill, Master."
The defendant received an excellent character from Mr. Bowring his employer.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, February 2nd, 1876.
Before Mr. Justice Field.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE JEFFREY CLAMTREE . I am an eating-house keeper, of 43, Bethnal Green Road—on Saturday, 20th September, the prisoner, who had been in my employ a month as extra man, was boneing meat at the back of the shop about 1 p.m.—I told him he was doing it very slowly and badly and wasting the meat, and he threw the things off the table, bones and all manner of things—I blowed him up for it, and he swore at me—I went to serve my customers in the shop and afterwards had my tea—I then went behind the counter, and about G.20 the prisoner came to me and said "You b——what have you to say to me?"—I told him to go away about his work or I would send for a policeman and have him taken away—he went away from the
front of the counter, where he was standing, to a settle and stayed there a few minutes—he then took bis blue smock off, threw it down, and came to the counter with his shirt sleeves tucked up on both arms; he had nothing in his hands—he came behind the counter and pushed up against me—I pushed him back twice—he came a third time, and as I went to push him away again I received a dreadful blow under my left arm—he got away from me then and came back, and then I saw this knife (produced) in his right hand in the attitude of striking—I put my left hand up to ward off the blow and it cut the palm of my hand nearly in half—I felt blood fast running down my body from where I had been struck under my arm, and cried out "I have been stabbed!"—the prisoner was held down and I was taken upstairs.
EMMA PIKE . I was a waitress in the prosecutor's service—about 4 o'clock in the afternoon I was in a room at the back of the shop—the prisoner was there boneing meat—his master asked him what he had been doing all the afternoon, for what he had done he himself could do in five minutes—the master left and the prisoner'then said that if he offended him once more that day he would stick the b——knife in his b——ribs—he had this knife in his hand at that time—I was in the shop about 6 o'clock when the prisoner used bad language to the prosecutor, who was behind the counter serving customers—the prisoner went behind the counter and drew a knife from his right hand pocket—my master said "Oh, good God, there is a knife, I feel a knife!"—I saw them struggling together, but did not see him stabbed—I ran for a doctor.
HENRY PEARCE . I live at 12 Ravenscroft Street—I was in Clamtree's shop about 6.30 and saw him behind his counter—the prisoner asked him what he had been finding fault with him for—he said that he had better go down and attend to his work—he would not go and Clamtree said that if he did not go he would have him removed—the prisoner came from behind the counter and sat down on the settle where people were waiting—he then pulled off his smock, pulled a knife out of his pocket and a piece of sandstone, about two inches long, which he kept rubbing up and down the knife to sharpen it—he said that before the night was out he would have his b——life—he ran at the master and they struggled behind the counter—the prosecutor told him to go from behind the counter, but he would not, the prosecutor caught hold of him and the prisoner stabbed him—I saw him reel round and fall, and ran for a policeman—this is the knife.
EMILY WALKER . I am in the prosecutor's service—on this Monday, about 6.30, I was in the room at the back of the shop and saw the prisoner go up to the prosecutor who said to him "What have you been doing all the afternoon, what you have done I could do in five or ten minutes myself," and then the prisoner came to the counter to master and made use of most vile language, and the prosecutor told him to go downstairs and do his work, if not he would have him removed—there is a kitchen below—he said to his master "What have you to say to me?"—he would not go downstairs, and the master took him by his left hand and just shoved him, and the prisoner fell back into the room where I was clearing tea and fell down—the master helped him up and then he struggled with the master and said "Now you b——I am ready for you," and drew this knife from his right hand pocket and ran it into the master's left side—I saw that—he said "Oh, I am stabbed," and I rushed between them, caught hold of the prisoner and pulled him back—he made another rush at the master and I got between
them and took the knife from him—he made an attempt to get the knife from me, but the little hoy Pearce, and the other witnesses rushed in and pulled him back and threw him on the ground on the other side of the counter, and then the mistress came up and held him till the police came, and I handed the knife to them—this is it.
ALFRED BOYD HOPKINS . I am a surgeon of 180, High Street, Shoreditch—about about 6.30 on this evening I saw the prosecutor at his own house—he was excessively low, fainting, and prostrate, bleeding from a wound on his left side, which commenced about an inch below the armpit, and extended downwards, and a little backwards, it was two inches wide and six or seven inches long—such a knife as this would produce it—if the knife had entered laterally it would have wounded the lungs, and he would have died, and if it had entered one inch lower down death must have ensued—he went on fairly for a fortnight, erysipelas then set in, and his life was in danger—the inside of his left hand was cut across, and his right hand was out just a little—I have attended him ever since, and he is still far from well.
DAVID ISTEAD (Policeman HR 28). I was fetched to this house about 6.30, and saw the prisoner being held by the prosecutor's son, who said that he had stabbed his father—I told the prisoner that I should take him in custody for stabbing Mr. Clamtree—he said on the way to the station "I done it, and I done it with a boneing knife; I hope he will die, and I hope I shall be hung for it"—I went back and asked for the boneing knife, and Emma Walker handed it to me all over blood.
The prisoner made no defence.
GUILTY .— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN LODGE . I am a stoker of 18, River Street, York Road—I know the three prisoners by sight only—on 28th December between 10 and 11 o'clock at night, I came out of a public-house in Pentonville Road; I did not see the prisoners till Smith struck me on the left side of my face, I then saw the other two prisoners—I said to Smith "What is that for?" and then Clark struck me on the right side of my face with his fist; Smith then struck me again, and I fell, and he knelt on me, and bit me on my face, and Clark kicked me on my side—I did nor feel anyone stab me, but when I got up I found I was stabbed just below my elbow—there were four stabs on my arm, and five cuts in my coat—I did not see Evans do anything, she was close by while I was on the ground, but 1 do not know whether she interfered—I had never seen her before—I was taken to the hospital in a cab—the blade of the knife was broken in my arm.
Cross-examined by Evans. I did not ask you if you would come and have something to drink—I did not ask you in the public-house if you would come and live with me—I did ask you to go to America with me—I did not strike you twice—I did not say 1 would make you come with me.
By THE COURT. I was in the public-house, but not with Evans—it is the Builder's Arms, kept by Mr. Odell—I think Evans was there, and I saw Smith there.
Cross-examined by Clark I did not want to fight the best man in the
public-house; fighting was not mentioned—I spoke to Evans, and asked her to go to America—you did not tell me that she belonged to some one else—you did not say "This woman belongs to that man, that is that man's wife," and I said "I have done"—my mate did not say "Give her a punch on the jaw"—I did not go outside to fight Smith, nor did we begin to fight outside—you kicked me.
Cross-examined by Smith. My friend did not pull his coat off to fight the best man in the house—I did not strike you twice—you did not tell me you did not want to fight—I did not follow you out of the house—I did not strike you, I never lifted my hand to you—the pair of you knocked me down, and fell on me—it was I who was underneath—I was not lifted off of you, you were lifted off me.
By THE COURT. Going to America, is a bye-word I have; I thought she was the same as the others, a prostitute—I meant for her to go with me somewhere.
JOHN WILLIAM SLADDEN . I live at 9, South Street, Pentonville Road—on the 20th December I met Evans and' another woman in Pentonville Road, outside the Builders' Arms—Evans stood outside the door with something in her hand, I could not see what; she uttered an oath that she would do for that sod to-night, looking in at the public-house door—I turned and looked, and saw the prosecutor and the other prisoner come out fighting—Clark and the prosecutor were striking, and one or two were fighting with them—both the male prisoners struck the prosecutor, but I did not see him strike anyone—I saw the whole of them fall down, but cannot say who was undermost—while Lodge was down Evans deliberately came up and said "Take that, you sod," and made a motion of stabbing three or four times; she had something in her hand—Lodge got up and dropped his arm, and blood ran down his coat-sleeve—the three prisoners all walked away together—as I passed the door I saw something dark in Evans' hand, but I cannot say whether it was a key or a knife.
WILLIAM ALLENBY . I live at 99, Euston Street, and am a baker—I was opposite the Builders' Arms, and saw Lodge and the male prisoners come out together; they were striking Lodge, and he was defending himself, as well as I could see—he was knocked down on the pavement—Smith was on top of him and Clark was alongside of him and kicked him on his side while he was down—Evans then got down on her knees and put something into him; I could not see whether she had a knife because it was a dark night, but she said "Take that" repeatedly—when he got up the blood rushed down his arm, and he staggered and fell on his back; I thought he was dead—the three prisoners went away together, and I followed them across the underground railway, got a policeman, explained the case to him, and he went with me; they went through the underground railway station, which is a thoroughfare, and into Gray's Inn Road, when the male prisoners went, I think it was through Dudley-Street, and Evans branched off to the left—the policeman and I brought Smith and Clark back, and Evans came back of her own accord; they said that they had done nothing—I told them they would be obliged to come back with the policeman and me to find out what was done—the police saw the pavement covered with blood, and of course they took them to the station.
Cross-examined by Clark I saw you strike and kick the man; you all seemed to have had a drop of drink, but you were sober enough to know what you were about.
ALFRED PAUL (Policeman G 337). I took Clark and Smith in Gray's Inn Road; I took them back to the spot and saw the blood—Sladden said "Policeman, this woman stabbed the man"—I believe she could hear that, but she said nothing—I took her in custody, handed her over to another constable, and took Lodge to the hospital—at the station she said it was she who stabbed the man.
CECIL KIRWAN . I am house surgeon at the Royal Free Hospital—Lodge was brought there suffering from loss of blood; he had three cuts near his elbow-joint, and in one stab inside his arm I found this knife blade (produced) broken close to the level of the skin, and the point was in the bone; it took a great deal of force to take it out; he had to be put under chloroform, and I had to cut an artery and tie it—the wound was of a dangerous character, he might have had erysipelas or secondary hæmorrhage; it was more dangerous than an ordinary wound—he is under my care still—I should say that it is the blade of a pocket-knife.
Evan's Defence. I was in a passion when I done it; he struck me and I returned it.
EVANS GUILTY — Eighteen Month's Imprisonment.
CLARK and SMITH— NOT GUILTY .
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
CECIL KIRWAN . I saw marks of a bite on Lodge's left cheek but not a very serious one—there was no blood, it was just red—he had one or two slight bruises on his face—I think he complained of being kicked—he was in a state of collapse then from loss of blood, but I examined his side the next day and found some slight bruises on his buttocks which might be caused by a kick or a fall—they were recent—he was apparently sober.
Clark's Defence. I never struck or kicked him.
GUILTY — Six Months' Imprisonment each.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ST. AUBYN the Defence.'
REBECCA JONES . I live with my father at Old Pye Street, Westminster—the prisoner and I had been acquainted for two years he was paying bis addresses to me—on 14th December. I was with him in Jeffrey's public-house—we left there between 10 and 11 o'clock p.m. and went to another public-house; and about 11 or 11.30 o'clock we were in Old Pye Street standing close together at the corner—he put his arm round my neck and struck me a violent blow on my side by the force of which I fell on the ground—I do not remember anything after I fell, but I got up, crossed over the road, went into my own house and into Mrs. Burke's room and complained of a pain in my left side—Mrs. Burke said that she saw blood coming from my dress, and I was taken to Westminster Hospital where I was undressed and examined by a surgeon—I am an indoor patient there still—I had had words with the prisoner two or three nights before—I appointed to meet him at my place and disappoiuted him, and he charged
me with being in company with another chap—I said that I had not, and that was all that passed—he was angry, but no more was ever said about it—I had seen him in the interval every day and night, and we were on very good terms—we had no quarrel, and the subject was not mentioned again.
Cross-examined. He was courting me, but we were not engaged to be married—I did once wish to marry him—I do not do anything for my living, I look after my father's house—I used to meet the prisoner nearly every night by appointment and walk with him—on this night the 14th, he called for me at 7 o'clock, but I was not at home—I was not engaged mending a bedtick on that occasion, or doing anything for my father that I recollect, never had a pair of; scizzors tied to my waist by a string in my life—I met the prisoner at Jeffrey's public-house, about 10 o'clock—he looked in at the door and was called in—I was in the public-house from 8 to 10 o'clock, with Amelia Foster, drinking all the evening—she is not here—I am prepared to say that I did not see the prisoner before 10 o'clock that night—I met him first at the Grey Coat public-house, Mr. Jeffrey's, where I had some ale with him, and everything was very comfortable and pleasant—we left there and went to Douney's public-house, in Peter Street—the other young woman and her mother were with us—we had some drink there, and still everything was pleasant, there was no quarrel—the prisoner was a good deal the worse for drink—when he first came into my company he was intoxicated—we left Douney's about 10.15, to the best of my recollection—he did not kiss me as we came out, nor had he his left arm round my neck, but he had twenty minutes afterwards, when he struck me in the side—we had been standing in the comer in the interval—I do not recollect that we were chatting, we stood twenty minutes without speaking—I had not fallen down before I was struck—I do not recollect anything after I received the wound—I do not recollect picking up his cap and putting it on his head, and telling him that I was not hurt, but the policeman told me that I did—I told the policeman when I recovered, at the hospital, that I did not recollect his coming—I do not recollect the policeman coming up and shaking the prisoner, directly I received the stab—the policeman tells me that I said, "Don't lock him up, he has not hurted me," but I have no recollection of saying it.
Re-examined. I was not much the worse for liquor, but I cannot say that I was in my right senses, as I ought to be—I was in liquor, but I knew what was going on and what I was talking about.
SAMUEL EDWARDS (Policeman B 184). On the night of 14th December, about 10.45, I was on duty in Old Pye Street, I saw the prosecutrix and the prisoner standing side by side by Westminster Buildings—he had his arm round her nock and gave her a fearful blow on the left side with his' right hand, and she fell to the ground and said "Oh"—I caught him by the collar, and said "You scoundrel how dare you strike a woman like that"—she got up and said "I am not hurt, don't lock him up"—she put his hat on his head and she went in doors—she was directly opposite her father's door—the prisoner went away down Old Pye Street, saying "It is my wife"—and about 11.45 I saw him in the custody of Hills, in Orchard Street—he said "Is this the man you saw strike a woman in Old Pye Street"—I said "Yes"—he said that the woman who was stabbed was in the Westminster Hospital, and I desired him to take the prisoner to the station—I went to the hospital and identified the woman—she was then insensible
—she was perfectly sober as far as I know when she received the blow—I thought he was kissing her—I charged him at the station with stabbing her, he said "You did not see me strike the blow, she was on the ground before you came."
Cross-examined. I had seen them before that night—the prisoner said that he was never near the place all that night—I told the Magistrate that—I have not said before to-day that he said "You did not see me strike the blow,"but he did say so when he was charged.
Re-examined. I did not say so, because my inspector was there, and Mr. Woolrich said that it was all right.
MARY ANN BOURKE . I am the wife of Henry Bourke, of 5, Old Pye Street, Westminster, where Rebecca Jones lives with her father—on the night of 14th December, about 11.15 she came into my room crying—I saw blood running from her left side and took her to the hospital where I undressed her and got her to bed—I saw something hanging from her left side—I left it there.
Cross-examined. I know that they have been courting for a long time. Tunbridge Hills (Policeman B 384). About 12 o'clock on the night of the 14th I saw the prisoner in Pear Street, with a female, I told him I should take him in custody for violently assaulting a woman who was in the hospital—he said that he had not been near the spot—I spoke to Edwards who recognised him and then took him to the station and told him it was for assaulting the prosecutrix—he said it was all right.
EMILY SMITH . I have been a dressmaker—I lived at 12, Old Pye Street, on 14th December, and on that night I was standing with Rose Carter, at the corner of Old Pye Street, about 11.15, and saw the prisoner put his left arm round the prosecutrix neck—(I had not known either of them before)—he struck her a blow on the left side with his right hand, and she fell to the ground and began moaning—the constable came up and shook him, and said "You scoundrel what do you treat a woman in that way for"—I saw nothing in the prisoner's hand.
Cross-examined. I heard the woman say when the constable came up "I am not hurt, don't lock him up."
ROSE CARTER . I lived at 12, Old Pye Street, on 14th December, and was standing with Emily Smith, at the corner of the street, and saw the prisoner who I did not know before, put his left arm round the female's neck and strike her on the left side with his right hand—she fell to the ground.
ROBERT KENDRAY ARCHER . On 14th December, I was house physician, at Westminster Hospital—the prosecutrix was brought in between 11 and 12 o'clock suffering from a stab between the tenth and eleventh ribs from which about three inches of amentum protruded—the stab had penetrated through the walls of the abdomen which are about an inch thick—she was put under chloroform—the omentum was put back and the wound dressed—it was caused by some sharp cutting instrument—she was in extreme danger for three weeks, and her deposition was taken by a Magistrate on the 19th—the wound is not healed yet, and she will be an in patient for some weeks—considerable force must have been used to produce the wound—a severe injury sometimes affects the recollection of events attending and preceding it.
Cross-examined. I was afraid of peritonitis setting in.
GUILTY on the Second Count **— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. RINGWOOD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ST. AUBYN the Defence. SARAH RYAN. I am the prisoners wife and live at 37, Cannon Street Road—on 27th December, he came home at 1.20 in the morning—I was at home—he asked me to give him his old coat and waistcoat for he should go out again—I asked him how long he should be—he said he should not be long—he went out, and about 1.30 I went out after him—he returned about 3.20 a.m.—I was then in my landlord's parlour away from him—I let him alone till I thought he had had his supper and gone to bed—I then went up to my bedroom and he was lying with his head on the table—I let him be some little time thinking he would go to bed, but he struck me with his hand—he got a poker and I turned my face in the bed to save it being marked with the poker, and he struck me across the back with it—the poker dropped from his hand on the boards, and he dragged me round the room by my hair and beat me severely with his fists—I went down stairs and he followed me and dragged me back again, and threw me down and kicked me and jumped on me—he tore my dress off and my jacket was covered with blood—he tore a good deal of hair off my head, and it was lying on my jacket—I was so exhausted with being beat that I could not put up with it, and I went to the window to open it to call for the police, but I did not see anybody and he put his arms round my waist and threw me clean out of the window; I fell on the cellar flap and recollect nothing more till I came to my senses at the London Hospital, at 3.40 on Saturday night—my head was very severely cut, and I was injured on my shoulder bone—the window is fifteen feet high from the sill, a chair could stand between the floor and the window.
Cross-examined. I had not been keeping up Christmas pretty well—I was at my sister's on Christmas night and was not home till 9 o'clock a.m.—the prisoner said that I might go if I liked to enjoy myself with my own people—he was at home when I came home on Sunday morning—he told me he should be home to supper on Sunday night at 9 o'clock p.m. but he did not have his supper till the morning after all this was done—he had his dinner at 1 o'clock on Sunday and he was with me till 7 o'clock, and then went out and was not home till 1.20 p.m. he was then very tipsy—I have never jumped out at a window before, nor did I then—he threw me out.
GEORGE CARTER . I live at 43, Cannon Street Road—on 27th of December—about 3.40 a.m. I heard the prisoner say to his wife "Go upstairs"—she said "Ryan you will kill me!"—I live 30 or 40 yards from them—I did not hear them go upstairs but they must have, for I heard the window open about five minutes afterwards and saw the woman fall to the ground—I think she fell feet first—I was not above 6 feet from the window when she fell standing on the same side of the street as the window—I did not see her with her feet on the sill—I saw the prisoner at the window after she fell, standing with his trousers on and his hands on the window sill—I took her by the hand and called "Police"—she was insensible—the prisoner came down and said "Did I do it" but she could not speak—he did not say how she got out.
Cross-examined. I heard the window open, and saw her leave the window and fall.
standing outside a door, he said to me "Here is a row"—I heard the prisoner say "Corne upstairs" and afterwards I heard a noise on the stairs as if it was the woman's head knocking up against the stairs, and then I; heard footsteps going upstairs, and the noise ceased for five minutes, and I heard the window slide up—I was standing by Carter in the road—I then saw the woman standing in front of the window, and the prisoner with his, arms round her waist, and she came out at the window head first, and after she fell I culled the police—I only saw half of her body at the window—he seemed to me as if he was throwing her out—I saw him after she fell with, his hands on the sill looking out—he then came down to the door—while she was down stairs I heard her say "Ryan you will kill me" she did not call out when the window went up—when he came down he said "Did I throw you out Sarah"—I said "Yes, you did."
Cross-examined. After they went upstairs the noise ceased for five minutes, and I heard no cry or scream of any sort or kind—there was a lamp facing the window—1 could not see right into the room, but I could see where the prisoner was—the window sash was fully opened from the bottom—the prisoner had two arms round her waist.
By THE COURT. As far as I can judge she was leaning against the window when I first saw her; I could see no interval between her body and the window.
HENRY PAYNE (Policeman II 184). I was about 100 yards from the house, and heard the window thrown up—I looked up the street, and saw something come down out of the window—I heard a voice shout "Police, he has thrown her out at the window"—I ran to the spot and found the prosccutrix lying on the payement insonsible bleeding very much from her head—Ryan came down to the door with his trousers on, but no boots or stockings—I asked him if he was her husband ho said "Yes"—I told) him I should take him in custody on suspicion of throwing her out of the window—he stooped down to her, and said "Did I do it?"—she was insensible, and could not answer—I took him to the station, and sent her to the hospital—I aftorwards examined the room, and found it all in an uproar, there was a tin pail doubled up, a poker on the floor, and several parts of a woman's wearing apparel with stains of blood on them, and stains of blood on the floor—I did not see any marks of injuries on the prisoner—he was not drunk—I saw the prosecutrix run down the street from her house between 1 and 2 o'clock—the window is 15 feet from the ground outside.
Cross-examined. The blood was wot—I saw no dry blood in the room.
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. " I am not guilty of throwing her out of the window."
He was further charged with a previous conviction at this Court in August, 1871, to which he PLEADED GUILTY**— Fifteen Years Penal Servitude.
170. ANN ELIZABETH ANDREWS (56) , was charged on the Coroner's Inquisition only) with feloniously killing and slaying Minnie Kate Brothcrton. The (Grand Jury having thrown out the Bill, MR. COOPER for the Prosecution offered no evidence on the inquisition.
about 6.30 leaving him sitting by the fire-side—the prisoner was not there—I was gone about ten minutes, and when I returned he was sitting on the stairs outside the door bleeding very much from his head—the prisoner was there then, and in her presence he said "Jane it is your hammer that she has struck me with"—she said "I never struck him, he struck me first"—he said "I did not"—a policeman was there, and we all went to the station, and the prisoner was charged—my husband came home he was taken to the infirmary, and died on the 20th—we had three hammers in the house—I am sure of that.
By THE COURT. My husband was a dog collar maker—one of the hammers was mine, I used it to put tacks in—there were three hammers in the house when I left, and the one now missing, which was mine, I had used a few minutes before I left—I could only find two afterwards, the one I had used was gone—my husband had told the prisoner that morning to go out, and not to come into his room any more—she went away directly after that.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. My husband had a bayonet sheath in his band that morning but he did not threaten you with it if you did not go out—you did not say that you would come in the afternoon to fetch your things—you only had a muff in your hand when you left.
SARAH RAWLINSON . I am the wife of John Rawlinson of 4, Bell Court—we live in the next room to where the deceased lived—on 13th January about 7.30 I heard—wraugling in their room, and heard Mr. Fyans call out "Murder! police!"—shortly afterwards I heard a voice say very faintly "All right, let me go;" everything was quiet after that—about five or six minutes after that I went into the room, and saw the prisoner lying on the bed cross-ways, and the deceased on top of her with his knees on her stomach holding her by the throat—I got him away, and she then got off the bed—I held her by the wrist, and she went across to the window.—she got away from me, and gave him deliberately a clout on the head, and knocked him down by two blows—he fell on the old bricks which imitated the fender—I did not see anything in her hand though I held her by her wrists—ho got up with my help bleeding very much from his head——she came a second time to strike him another blow, and the table was overturned, and the light went out directly—that second blow knocked him down—I sent a child for a constable—the prisoner was bleeding from her face very much when I went into my room—she was speaking about some money on the landing outside my room door, but my husband would not allow me to go out—I cannot tell how the wound on her forehead was caused.
ELIZABETH KNIGHT . I live at 4, Bell Court, below Mr. and Mrs. Fyans—about 7.30 o'clock on this night the deceased burst my door in—his forehead was bleeding very much—as he stood facing the door, the prisoner, who was facing my door in the passage, throw something at him, but what it was I cannot say for I could not find it; it hit him and he said "Oh, I am a murdered man"—I am sure there was something, and it went towards the fireplace—I looked at the time and could not find it—he said "Don't turn me out, I am a murdered man"—the prisoner heard that, she was standing at my door.
JOHN NORTON . I am surgeon at the Holborn Union Infirmary—on Saturday, 15th January, I saw the deceased there suffering from two contused wounds on his forehead, one on the top of his head and one at the back—the wound on the top cut through the scalp down to the bone—he was
paralysed on the opposite side—the wound was rather on the right side and he was paralysed on the left—that is the ordinary course—the other wounds were comparatively trifling—he became worse, and died on the 20th—I afterwards made a, post-mortem examination and found on the top of the head a piece of bone about the size of a sixpence driven into the brain—it was quite detached—the scalp was divided and the bone was fractured and driven into the brain—there was extravasation of blood, caused by the fracture, on the surface of the brain which was the cause of death—the wound must have been inflicted by a blunt instrument—a hammer would be a very likely instrument to do it—it was a round wound—it is impossible from its position and depth that it could be caused by' a fall, but the wound at the back of the head might be—the fracture was in three pieces—the inner part is more brittle than the outer part, and it was sticking into the brain—the durer mater was ruptured—there was pus round the wound and at the front part of the brain as well, that was the result of inflammation—it must have been caused by a heavy blunt instrument like a hammer.
ROBERT KNIGHT (Policeman G 90). I was called to Bell Court and the prisoner said "I wish to lock a man up for assaulting me who is upstairs"—I went up and found the deceased on the landing, bleeding very much from his head—he said "I charge this woman with assaulting me in my own room"—I took her to the station, and on the road I asked her what she done it with—she said "He got a burnisher and struck me across the head"—she had a slight cut over her left eye which had been done recently by the look of it, a mark on her throat which looked fresh, and a black eye which looked as if it had been done some time.
Cross-examined. I did not see anything in your hand when you spoke to me—you went upstairs with me—I did not hear him say that you struck him with a hammer.
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate. " I went up for my muff and to tell him about his daughter, when I went up I told him about her and he said he would be revenged on her. I told him I had nothing to do with her and he got up and took up a bayonet sheath and said he would have it off me; he took me by the throat and knocked me down on to an iron bedstead and put his knee on my stomach, he punched me down in the face, he hit me first on the forehead with this bayonet thing and the blood poured down into my eye, he then struck me several blows on the forehead and eye, my eye was very much swelled when I came to the station but not black, he then knocked my head against the iron bedstead, I said "For God's sake let me get up," he said, "Not till I choke you," and he stuck his fingers into my throat. I got away from him with the help of the woman next room and then 7 ran at him and struck him twice with my fist, I knocked his head against the bricks and against the iron bedstead. He took up the crutch to strike me and I ran out of the room; I stood on the landing and said I should give him in charge. A policeman was in the court and I spoke to him, I went up again to the landing and the policeman took me."
The Prisoner in her Defence repeated the same statement.
ROBERT KNIGHT (re-examined). I was sent for by someboby but I do not know who—the prisoner was the first person I spoke to—she was with me all the time I was at the house, and 1 took her from the house to the station—she was not searched at the station, the charge being an assault—she was taken to a cell—nothing was found on her—no hammer or any instrument has been found or traced.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, February 2nd, 1876.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. COOPER the Defence.
JOSEPH KEATING . I came from Ireland this morning—I am brother to the first wife of the prisoner—they lived together for about six years, and then went to Australia, I believe—he left her in Australia and went to California—she returned to her father's house, and lived with him for two or three years until he died—she then, having no place to go to and no one to support her, resided with me at my house for a year and a half—there were three children born, and she was left with two in. A-istralia—the prisoner returned from California to London about two years ago and visited his wife at my house—his excuse was that he was looking for an appointment fa London—there was frequent correspondence between them—I pressed upon her to go to London to see what he was doing; she did so, and they met—they lived together again for probably a month on and off—he then deserted her, and she was obliged to return to Ireland—her property was settled upon her, it was very small—she returned to Dublin, not to my house, in February or March, 1875, survived about six or seven months, and then died in September—the children are alive—I heard of the second marriage last April for the first time—I am informed that the proceedings were instituted by Dean Dickenson, who, hearing her case, made an application to the solicitor in Ireland.
Cross-examined. It was not through me the Attorney-General in Ireland began to act, I know nothing about it—the children are with his father.
By THE COURT. I knew him before the marriage to my sister and afterwards—he was in a respectable position.
SARAH CRAFT . I was married to the prisoner on the 22nd April, 1874—I had known him some time, but I do not know exactly how long; it was longer than two months, it might have been three—my child was bom on the 28th March, 1874, before the marriage—I had a child by the prisoner on the 2nd April, 1875—I did not give him into custody—I have been living in London—he represented to me that he was secretary to some company in Crutchedfriars, and a single man.
Cross-examined. I asked him if he was single; what made me do so was because I have read of cases of men having married before—I did not ask the other gentleman, the father of the other child, whether he was a single man or not—I was living with the prisoner until he was taken into custody—he left me last March—I am in the service now of the Rev. Canon Lloyd—I had seen nothing of him after March until last Saturday week—I had not quarrelled with him.
GUILTY — Four Months' Imprisonment.
NOT GUILTY .
FOURTH COURT—Wednesday, February 2nd, 1876.
— Five Years' Penal Servitude.
GUILTY of receiving—Fourteen Years' Penal Servitude.
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding— Eighteen Month's Impisonment.
178. HENRY SIMMONDS (23) [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image] , Robbery with violence on Thomas Goodwin, and stealing a muffler, value 4s., his property, having been before convicted— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. And
LYON and COOPER— NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Thursday, February 3rd, 1876.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
180. ALBOR YURGENSE alias CARL FREDERICK AHLBORN (32), and HENRI SOISSON (38) , Unlawfully inducing Nicholas Wagner to accept two bills of exchange, by false pretences. Two othier Counts—for conspiracy to defraud other persons, and varying the form of charge.
MESSRS. COLLINS and MEAD conducted the Prosecution.
The evidence was interpreted to the prisoners.
LUCY CHANNON . I am a widow, and live at 51, Trinity Square, Borough—I know Yurgense under the name of Ahlborn—he was first introduced to me in September, 1874—soon after that he took a bedroom at my house and resided there—he paid 6s. a week—he stopped nearly twelve months—during the time he was there I saw Soisson; he used to visit him there, not frequently, once or twice I saw him—my daughter left my house shortly before Yurgense, she had a disagreement with me—Yurgense left not long after her—whilst Yurgense was with me he used to have letters addressed to him as Mr. Ahlborn, foreign as well as English. letters, about the same number as a person usually has.
Yurgense. Q. Have you any complaint to make as to my character, or do I owe you any money.? A. No, neither.
JOSEPHINE CHANNON . I am the daughter of the last witness—I am now living with her—in 1874 Yurgense came to live there under the name of Ahlborn—Soisson used to cohie there to see him—I believe Ahlborn had an office in Regent Street, No. 20—I have been with him there—in February last year I had a disagreement with my mother and went to live at Hatfield Street, Blackfriars—Ahlborn used to visit me there, and during the last week he lived with me there; we then went together to 95, Borough Road; while there he used to receive letters in the name of Ahlborn, foreign and English letters—I have been to the Post Office in Dover Road with Ahlborn and Soisson when they fetched letters from there; they were addressed to H. Stone, Post Office, Dover Road—at that time they had an office at 15, Queen Street, Cheapside—I have been there and have seen both the prisoners there—I have been there alone for letters at Alhborn's request; I believe they were foreign letters—I removed from the Borough Road to 3, Spencor Street, Clerkenwell—Ahlborn lived there with me also, and Soisson used to come there to see him sometimes, not very often—this letter (produced) is my writing; I wrote it at Ahlborn's request. (Read: "1st, September, 1875" (addressed to Mr. Wagner, of Paris, and signed, 'Albor Yuigense and Co., per proouration.') "We are in possession of your
esteemed of the 13th ult. Our principal, being out of town,' the reply must be postponed till his return.") During the time I was living with Ahlborn I pawned things, these (produced) are the tickets representing some of the things I pawned. (There were for bracelets, and articles of wearing apparel and furniture.) I believe they wanted the money—when I was living in Spencer Street, I recollect going with both the prisoners to the Waterloo Station—they said they were going to Paris; I saw them start together in the train—I can't recollect the date, it was the third day after we were in Spencer Street—when they were together they spoke in German or Dutch; I was not able to understand them—the endorsement "Albor Yurgense & Co." on this bill of exchange I believe to be Ahlborn's writing—I cannot see the signature on this (marked F 1) it is too much obliterated—the endorsement on these two bills (K and L) I believe to be Ahlbon's; also the signature "Albor Yurgense & Co." to these letters (looking at a number marked B D, I 1 to I 13, omitting 7, also M and N)—the signature "J. Channon to this bill (A R) is my writing; I signed that at Ahlborn's request, also the endorsement J. Channon"—the signature "Albor Yurgense & Co.," at the bottom is Ahlborn's writing—this other bill (A Q) drawn by J. Channon, is my writing, also the endorsement, I did that at Ahlborn's request—the other endorsement "Albor Yurgense & Co.," is Ahlborn's—this other bill(A S, 1) is drawn and endorsed by "H. Soisson"—those signatures look like Soisson's writing, also this A S 2 and A S 4; it is the same handwriting—the endorsements "Albor Yurgense & Co." are Ahlborn's—the drawer's and endorser's signature to A S 5, I believe to be Ahlborn's, also to A S 6 and 7—the signature to this letter (A G) from Albor Yurgense & Co. to Messrs. Durrschmidt is Ahlborn's—I have seen this cheque-book (A C) in Ahlborn's possession, either in Spencer Street, or the Borough Road, the endorsement "Albor Yurgense "to this bill of exchange (B J) I balieve to be Alhborn's.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. I was not asked to go to the post-office in the Dover Road, I went for a walk; I saw the letters in the name of Stone, at the house I believe; I saw them lying about, you did not show them to me—the bills and papers produced are very much like your writing; I have seen you write very like it—this cheque-book is the same I saw at the Mansion House—it is exactly like the one I have seen on your table; I can't say it is the one—I used to go to the office in Queen Street, sometimes to dust the office, and sometimes for a walk with you in the morning as I did not like stopping at home alone—you did not teach me to write bills and letters of exchange; I never understood them—you asked me to write them because you did not understand English—I can't say for what purpose, they were written—you have never pointed out to me the difference between some sort of endorsements and others—I don't know what the drawer of a bill is; I don't understand bills.
Cross-examined by Soisson. I don't know in what capacity you were with Ahlborn, unless as interpreter to speak for him—you remained in Paris from Monday till Saturday.
Re-examined. Yurgense told me to sign my name on the back of the bills—I did not notice the 2s. stamp, I only signed two on the back.
JOHN WATSON . I am the proprietor of some wine-rooms at 15, Queen Street, Cheapside—in May last, I had a small room on the second floor, which I let to Yurgense, at 20l. a year, payable in advance monthly, I did
not know him before—he had the name of "Albor Yurgense & Co." put up—he still rented the room when he was taken into custody.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. You were to pay three mouths in advance to begin with, afterwards monthly in advance—I have no claim against you—I never lost anything by you—I have nothing to say against your character.
Re-examined. He did not give any reference, I did not ask for any, he spoke broken English.
WALTER GEORGE LAWRENCE . I am clerk to Messrs. Dawson & Son printers and stationers, 121, Cannon Street—on 3rd June last year, Yur—gense called and gave me an order for a ream of foreign paper, and 500 square envelopes—I supplied paper with "Albor Yungense & Co., Finan—cial Offices, 15, Queen Street, London," and on the top of the envelopes was printed "Albor Yungense & Co., 5, Queen Street, London"—he paid a deposit of 10s., and paid the balance afterwards—it was exactly the same sort of paper as that produced—this is one of the envelopes produced.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. You spoke very broken English, I could hardly understand you—I assisted you to write out what you wanted.
WILLIAM WILLIS . I am postmaster at 59, Great Dover Street, Borough, I also keep a stationer's shop and do printing—I recollect having letters addressed to "H. Stone, Post Office, Dover Road"—they first came about May I—think Yurgense came to fetch them, and sometimes Soisson came with him—they were foreign letters—I never noticed what country they came from; sometimes there were three and four a day, sometimes two or one—the last letter came about August—after. Yurgense received the first letters, he said he would give me instructions for some printing, but he never did.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. When you came you asked me if there were any letters there in the name of Stone—you said that you were Stone, I will swear that—I had no other foreign letters left there, only those to Stone—before any letters came you asked me if I would take in any in the name of Stone, and I asked you when you had the first letter, whether you were Mr. Stone, and you said "Yes, H. Stone."
NICHOLAS WAGNER . I am an artificial flower maker, living at 64, Rue Granata, Paris—In the middle of last year, I saw this advertisement in a Paris newspaper. (Translated and read: " Credit of money procured by an English financial agent, against a moderate commission upon accepted bills, goods in warehouse, consignments, or other securities; letters post-paid to H. Stone, Post Office, Dover Road, London, E.C.") I saw that advertise-' ment for five weeks in the same paper—on 28th June, I wrote this letter—(A) to that address. (Read: " I beg you to give me some explanations in reference to the advertisement on money credit, which appears in a Paris paper of this day. I am in want of a sum of 6 to 10,000 francs for ready use in working my business.") I received this reply(B). (This was dated 30th June, 1875, from 15, Queen Street, London, signed Albor Yurgense & Co., requesting to be informed what security Mr. Wagner could tender, &c.) On 5th July, I wrote this letter (C). (This contained an explanation of his business and its requirements, and proposed a three months acceptance for 3 or 4,000 francs to begin with.) Upon that I received this letter of 6th July (D), stating they "would let me know in a few days, if they were inclined to ac-ept my proposal—I then received this of 14th July (E), enclosing two bills, one for 2,494 francs, 50 centimes, and one for 1,605 francs 50 centimes, at three months, payable on 14th October, drawn by Albor Yurgense & Co.—I
accepted them and sent them back in this letter (G)—on the 20th July, I received this letter, from Albor Yurgense & Co. (This acknowledged the receipt of the bills, and stated they had been sent on, and as soon as they received the necessary reply a remittance would be sent) On 22nd July, I wrote this (H), stating that I required 2,500 francs to pay some accounts, and desiring to know if I could reckon upon the same by the 31st—I then received letter I 2, dated 24th July, stating they could not assure the remittance by the 31st, this being a first transaction but that in all future transactions a settlement would be effected at once—on the 7th August I wrote this: "It is now more than a mouth since I have sent you my acceptances, and I am still waiting impatiently for the proceeds of same. Let me know by return of post what 1 am to think, as I should like to be made easy about it as soon as possible"—on the 12th August I received this. (This stated that they had not yet received an answer from their correspondent, but would next week send the acceptances or the value.) About this time I received a telegram from Messrs. Robert de Millan, which I have lost; it was asking me whether I had accepted a bill for 1,605 francs to Messrs. Albor Yurgense & Co.—I answered by telegram, and on the 14th August I wrote this letter to Albor Yurgense & Co. (This inquired the meaning of the telegram from M. Robert, and urging the remittance of the proceeds of the acceptances.) On the 17th August I received this letter from Albor Yurgense & Co. (This referred to the telegram as merely a request to know if the acceptances were genuine, and stated that they were still waiting for a definite reply from their correspondent.) Between the 17th and 23rd of August I received letters from Messrs. Chantrain & Co., of Brussels, with reference to my acceptance of 2,494 francs—on the 23rd I wrote this letter to Yurgense and Co. in reference to Messrs. Chantrain's application, and stating that unless I received a favourable reply by return I should apply elsewhere and cancel the transaction—I then received this letter of the 24th August (This stated that' the bill for 2,494 francs had been entered to their credit on Mr. Wagner's account, but that the other bill had been returned, and asking to be informed whether they should send the equivalent of the first bill or wait for a further reply as to the other. On the 25th August I wrote requesting them at once to send me the proceeds of the 2,494 francs bill—on the 29th August I received this letter enclosing these two bills, one for 987 francs 50 cents due on the 10th October, and one for 1,426 francs 75 cents due on the 16th October at Brussels, and stating that they hoped in a few days to receive a favourable reply as to the 1,605 francs, upon which a bill for the same would be remitted—the first of these two bills is drawn by Perelly & Co., 83, Rue I'Echiquier; I have searched and can find no such persons, and there is no No. 83 in the street; there are only fifty houses—the bill is endorsed "Pay to the order of Messrs. Perelly & Co.; valued received. Glasgow, Tassie & Co."—the other bill is drawn by Cohen & Tober, no address, accepted by C. Wagner—I never got a penny for that bill, it was returned to me; they were worthless bills—on the 30th August I returned them to Yurgense & Co. in this letter, stating that in default of a satisfactory reply I should take means to regain possession of my acceptances—on the 1st September I received this letter (I 7 already read), and on the 3rd September another to the same effect—I then received this of the 7th September enclosing two bills amounting together to 2,155 francs 65 cents on Amsterdam and Brussels, and on the 8th September I replied, enclosing the bills and demanding the return of my acceptances—I never got any money, I got back the
smaller bill—Messrs. Chantrain threatened to make me a bankrupt if I did not pay the bill, and I paid it and received it from them—on the 16th October I came to London, and the City authorities took the matter up—when I sent my bills I believed that Yurgense & Co. were financial agents carrying on a business; I would not have parted with my bills otherwise.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. You promised to return me my bill for 2,494 francs, but you never kept your word—it was agreed that I should pay 2 per cent. commission; the dispute about returning the bill was not on that account—of course I would not pay you the 2 per cent. commission, as I did not receive anything—I was in London on the 16th October; I came to London for the purpose of speaking to you about the payment of that bill; nobody persuaded me not to speak to you about it—there was a correspondence after the 16th October as to the payment of that bill—Chautrain wanted to compel me to pay the bill before it was due—I wrote to say I would not pay it, on account of all this.
WILLIAM SMITH (City Detective Sergeant). About October and November I and Trafford had observation of the prisoners movements—on 25th November I went with Mr. Wagner and Trafford to Spencer Street, Clerk-enwell—I saw Yurgense come out of No. 3—he went into a Post Office, I followed him and he was given into my custody by Mr. Wagner—the bill marked F was shown to him, and he said "That is my signature"—I took him to the station, searched him, and found on him a military certificate exempting Carl Frederick Ahlborn from service—I went to 15, Queen Street, on the second floor, the name "Albor Yurgense and Co," was painted on the door—the room is 9 feet long and 4 feet wide—I made a search and found some envelopes which I produce, with "Albor Yurgense & Co." printed at the top—that was the whole of the property there except a letter or two, a table and a chair—"Albor Yurgense & Co., financial agents, 15, Queen Street, London, E.C." is on the letters—I found this bill (B J) there—I afterwards went to 3, Spencer Street, a bedroom and sitting room on the first floor—I found Miss Channon there—I made a search there and found six dozen aluminum pencil cases, twenty pawn tickets, twelve of them relating to new opera glasses and the other eight to wearing apparel—I also found these two bills of exchange (K and L), and a good deal of unused note paper headed "C. Ahlborn, 20, Regent Street," also the whole of the correspondence from Mr. Wagner which has been read, and these letters from Chantrain & Co., of Brussels, marked P 1 to P 8—since then I have been to Brussels and to Messrs. Chantrain's offices—I there saw ten letters in the letter book, signed "Albor Yurgense & Co., and headed 15, Queen Street"—they were torn out of the letter book in my presence, and I initialled them—I have since received them from Messrs. Chantrain by post—I produce a letter book that was at Spencer Street, and in that are copies of the letters that I received from Messrs. Chantrian. (This correspondence consisted of applications on the part of Albor Yurgense & Co., to Messrs. Chantrian for the supply of black leather calf, and their replies, the goods being sent and bills given, amongst them the one of Mr. Wagner's referred to in the evidence.) I produce a great number of bills which I found at Spencer Street, the letter book, and the whole of the correspondence was in a trunk—I found no other books except the letter book, no account books or ledger, or anything indicating a business—the letter book contains press copies of the letters sent to Mr. Wagner—at page 478 there is a letter to Messrs. Hassenstein and Vogler, of Basle, Switzerland. (This was dated 21st June,
from 95, Borough Road, London, and enclosed 25 francs for 10 insertions in the Sicele of the advertisement already read.) I also found four blank bills (A B 1 to 4) endorsed Tassie & Co., 40, Auckland Street, Glasgow—I have been to Glasgow and made inquiries and there is no such street there, or any firm of Tassie & Co.—I also found a bill (B 1), drawn by Cohen and Tober, twelve bills drawn by Berenstrat, of Amsterdam, two blank bills drawn by C. Weyer, and six blank bills accepted by Berenstrat—I have been to Paris and can confirm what Mr. "Wagner has said about Perelly & Co.—I accompanied him and the police authorities, and could find no number 83 in the street—in one of the bills Cohen and Tober's address is given as 33, Wenlock Street, Hoxton—I know a man named Cohen an associate of the prisoners, he lives at that address, he does not carry on any business there, it is a private house—I have received these letters from the German Consul, in London, addressed to Adolph Wageman. (These, marked Z and A a, purported to come from R. Smith & Co., 246, City Road, London, and were dated October 25th and 30th, ordering a quantity of gloves, and enclosing a cheque No. a 24,550 for 126l. 10s., drawn by G. Hanny, on Messrs. Hartland & Co., Continental Bank, 79, Lombard Street, endorsed R. Smith & Co). There is a corresponding number on the counterfoil of the cheque book found at Yurgense's lodging, 3, Spencer Street—I found two cheques in blank in the cheque book, signed G. Hanny—I produce a cheque for 5l. marked A. J., which I found in Yurgense's pocket book, dated 18th August, 1875, drawn by G. Hanny, in favour of C. Ahlborn, with the words "Concluding my account," that was taken from this cheque book as the counterfoil shows, also another for 2l. 12s. 9d., dated 13th August, drawn by G. Hanny in favour of C. Ahlborn, which has on it "Refer to drawer," both on Hartland & Co.
WILLIAM HENRY TRAFFORD (City Detective). For many weeks previous to November I was keeping observation on the two prisoners—I have seen them together in the City, at 15, Queen Street, at 246, City Road, at the Wenlock Arms, Wenlock Street, and at Spencer Street—I have seen them with a man named Cohen, who I believe calls himself an interpreter—on 25th October I saw Yurgense at Spencer Street, from there he came to 15, Queen Street—Soisson met him at the office in Queen Street, went with him to the Gog and Magog in Cheapside; he then met a woman in Cheap-side—from there Yurgense went by himself to Church Row, Aldgate, back again to the office 15, Queen Street, met Soisson, then both went together to 246, City Road, they were there engaged in a front room for about two hours and a half, and then both went on to Spencer Street—I saw no more of them that day—on 29th October Yurgense came first to the office 15, Queen Street, went again to Church Row by himself, back to his office in Queen Street where he met Soisson, and both went to 246, City Road, re-mained there about an hour engaged in the office there, a front room—I saw no more of them that day—on 30th October and 1st November I watched them again, continually together going into these different houses, I have seen them together constantly for a fortnight—I took Soisson into custody on 3rd December at 24, Cornwall Street,' St. George's-in-theEast—I told him he would be charged with having conspired with Albor Yurgense then in custody with having obtained bills and property from various places on the Continent—I ask him if he knew sufficient English to know what I was talking about—he said "Yes, and that he was only in the employ of Yurgense—I said "How do you mean, employ?"—he said
"Interpreting letters for him, and writing letters, for which I used to receive all sums, generally at the time."
REBECCA WOOD . I am the wife of Frederick Wood, of 3, Spencer Street in October last Yurgense came with a woman and lived there as Mr. and Mrs. Ahlborn—they had two furnished rooms, a bedroom and sitting-room on the first floor, at 12s. a week—Soisson used to come there several times to see Mr. Ahlborn.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. I have no complant to make against you—you do not owe me anything.
PRISCILLA CULVERWELL . I live at 246, City Road—about the middle of October last Soisson called and wanted a room, to use as an office, (I had a notice in the window) to write letters in a few hours each day—he said be would bring a gentleman at the begining of the following week and then they would take the room together—they were to pay 6s. a week for three or four hours in the middle of the day—they were to have the parlour—on the following Monday Soisson brought Yurgense—they said the name would be Smith & Co.—I made them pay a deposit—they came to the room after that each day; they did writing there, they used the room in that way four or five weeks, they paid in advance each week—about two or three days after they came foreign letters came directed to Smith and Co, six or eight by the night post, and three or four in the morning—after a short time they only came for letters—Soisson came and took them away—I believe a registered letter came before they left, but before they arrived in the morning and I would not sign for it—Soisson asked why—I said I would rather not have anything to do with it, they must sign for their own letters—when they left they asked if I would take in letters for them and charge for it—I said no I would have nothing to do with them—I saw some foreign post paper on the table when I went into the room to speak to them, it waslike this, headed "R. Smith & Co. 246, City Road;" and several envelopes like these—I said to them "You are advertising my house what do you mean, what is your business?"Yurgense said "Don't you like it"—I said 1 did not care about it—but I did not see what they wanted to do it for and I asked what business they carried on—they said "merchants," they dealt in anything—some time after two large parcels came by the Great Eastern Rail-way van—I would not take them in, there was 15s. or 16s. to pay on them and I sent them back.
Cross-examined by Yurgense. Soisson came first to see about the room, and you both came together to take it—l can't recollect whether Soisson, paid a deposit of 2s.—the rent was always paid in advance—you generally paid me, I don't think Soisson did, but if he did it was only once.
AUGUSTE DURRSCHMIDT . I am a member of the firm of Durrschmidt Brothers, musical string manufacturers at Markenkirchen, Saxony—about 14th October, Mr. Hanning, a violin manufacturer, showed me this letter (Y). (This was dated 13th October, 1875, from R. Smith and Co., 246, City Road, to Mr. Hanning requesting to be funished with lowest cash prices of strings, with samples.) I answered the letter, and sent the prices, and then received this letter. (This ordered the goods as per list.) I sent the goods ordered believing that R. Smith & Co. were carrying on a genuine business as merchants, had I not believed so I would not have sent the goods—about 17th November I received this letter from Albor Yurgense & Co., Financial Office, 15, Queen Street. (This requested lowest prices for strings, stating if they were of good quality they might expect to receive large orders.)
I scut them by post—since. I have been in London, I have seen them, they were of the value of 27l.—I never got anything for them.
ALOIS CHIBA . I am a glove manufacturer, at Oberdam, in Bohemia, in October I received this letter. (This was from R. Smith and Co., 246, City Road, ordering seventy-eight dozen pairs of gloves.) I wrote to ask what sort they wanted, and then received this letter. (This ordered an assortment of different colours.) I then received this letter of 3rd November. (This enclosed Hanny's cheque for 77l. 10s.) On that I sent the gloves—the cheque was never paid—I have since seen the gloves, and have got them.
WALTER THROWER . I am a porter in the employment of Smith's Continental Parcels Express Office, 53, Gracechurch Street, City—I have my delivery sheet of 17th November, on that day I received a parcel for R. Smith & Co., 246, City Road—I tendered it there, and Mrs. Culverwell refused it—it is here—on 25th November I had another parcel for the same address which was also refused; that is here.
ANN BARNES . I live at 61, Crescent Place, Hackney Road—in February, 1875, and for some months I had a lodger named Hanny, he came at the latter end of February, and stayed till August—he gave no address when he left, and I have never seen or heard of him since—I have seen this cheque book in his possession—I don't know what he was—since he left there have been several persons after him with cheques and bills.
GEORGE HUMPHREYS . I am a clerk in the Continental Bank, it was formerly Messrs. Hartlands & Co., 79, Lombard Street—a person named Gerard Hanny, of 61, Pleasant Place, Hackney, had an account there—it was opened on 2nd June—this is the cheque book that was given him—on 23rd July his balance was 5l. 7s. 10d., and on 28th September 2l. 15s. 4d. which still remains—this cheque for 120l. 10s. 6d. was presented, also that for 77l. 10s.; and marked "not sufficient." "'
GEORGE NICHOLLS . I am an auctioneer of 67, St. Mary Axe—I know the prisoner Yurgense as Ahlborn—on 23rd September he brought me a parcel of Belgian leather which he said he had purchased in Paris and found that he could not realise what he had given for it—he instructed me to sell it, and requested an advance on it—I advanced him 75l., and Bold the leather which realised 74l. 15s. 3d. after deducting the commission.
Yurgense's Defence. I never gave myself out as a financial agent, but I said there was a certain small commission I could make upon the transaction; everything said was as the medium between the two parties, through me the transaction was to be concluded. Mr. Wagner-has told you that as to giving money there never was any such transaction—as soon as I found out that a misunderstanding had arisen between Mr. Wagner and me on that point, I immediately took the necessary steps to withdraw the bill, and refund it to him—what I say now will be proved as you can see by the letters of Wagner, and I hope you will see that that is the case, and then I may depend upon being acquitted on this charge.
Soisson's Defence. The letters were written to me in German and I bad to write them in French. I went to Paris as interpreter because I knew Paris, having been there on many occasions; and as he did not speak French I acted as his interpreter. I beg your Lordship to recall Miss Channon.
By THE COURT, I have no belief as to their being Soisson's writing, but I am certain they are not.
By MR. COLLINS. I suppose this agreement is in Soisson's writing as it is on this paper—I saw him write it but I did not see it before—the signatures to these two letters are alike and they are not signed by Ahlborn.
GUILTY — Five Years' Penal Servitude each.
OLD COURT.—Friday, February 5th, 1875.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES DOWELL . I am agent for Messrs. Thomas Andrew Walker & Co., contractors, and at present engaged upon the works at Whitechapel of the East London Railway Company—the business is to contract with carmen to take away the excavations—each carman loads up a load and on passing out of the owner's gateway receives a ticket similar to this (produced)—the ticket is torn from a book printed for the purpose, and a counterfoil is left in it—it is the carman's duty to go to the owner's gate from where he is loading and under ordinary circumstances he would not be entitled to more than one ticket for one load—these are presented to the master carman for payment every week, and half a crown would be paid for the ticket—I had a man watching the prisoner—I did not see the transaction of this ticket—after he left I was spoken to by Hogben, and when he returned with his second load I asked him if he had taken two tickets for one load, and he denied it—I asked him where he had loaded and he told me the ground and I called up the two gatekeepers in the prisoner's presence, and each said "I gave him a ticket"—he denied it—they first showed him their books—he subsequently gave me this ticket and admitted he had the two—I gave him into custody—on those particular days as many as 200 carts would go out.
HENRY HOGBEN . I am overlooker at the works in question—I was on the watch at 7.30 on the morning of the 29th January—I saw the prisoner loading at the ground nearest Procter, the ticket writer—he had been there several times before, daily—I followed him up to the next ground—I saw him stop at the gate and go to Shaw's box—he finished his load and then went to Procter's gate and got a ticket there—I went up to him and told him he had got two tickets for one load and he said "No "—I followed him along the street and told him it would do him no good as I should stop it and he handed the ticket to me.
Prisoner's Defence. The ticket was no use to me. The old gentleman gave me the ticket and the witness said "Have you got two tickets. "I said "No," and he snatched it out my hand. I have always worked hard for my living since I was eight years old. I should have been dismissed for overworking the horses if I produced too many tickets.
GUILTY—Recommended to mercy on account of his youth— Two Months Imprisonment.
FOURTH COURT.—Thursday and Friday, February, 3rd and 4th, 1876.
183. WILLIAM HARREL JOHNSON (39) , was iudicted for unlawfully conspiring with Robert Vere and others to defraud Josiah Johnson, of 295l. Second Count—for obtaining an order for 150l. by falsely pretending that he was one Thomas Rees , a solicitor. Other Counts—varying the mode of charge.
MR. R. T. COLE, Q.C., with MR. M. WILLIAMS and MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. TORR, Q.C., with MR. CROOME the Defence.
JOSIAH JOHNSON . I carry on business as the proprietor of some Turkish baths at King's Cross—I am a member of Tattersals and make books on races—sometime before February, 1873, I had been acquainted with a man named Vere—we had had betting transactions together, and I had lent him a sum of 100l. for which he gave me a promissory note—he called on me in February, 1875, and on 23rd March, I attended at some offices at 52, Chancery Lane—prior to that, in February, 1875, I had been introduced by Vere to the prisoner—he introduced him to me as Mr. Rees, his solicitor—in consequence of that representation, I handed to Vere certain sums of money; I did not advance it on the guarantee produced—this letter was not shown to me; I never saw it before I saw it at the police-court—on 23rd March, I had an interview with the prisoner and Vere, at 52, Chancery Lane—I went there with Vere and saw the defendant there—I believed him to be Mr. Rees, the solicitor, as he had been previously introduced to me—Vere said in his presence that he wanted to borrow 150l. of me, and would Mr. Rees be guarantee for him—I cannot give the exact words, but that was the meaning of it—he said he would—I said they must go to my solicitor, Mr. Apps, and have the business transacted there—Vere and I went to Mr. Apps, and I had a conversation with him in Vere's presence—Mr. Apps went back with us to Rees' office—there was no one in, we waited there a few minutes and then the prisoner came in—Vere said to Mr. Apps "this is Mr. Rees," meaning Johnson—Johnson assented, he did not say anything to the contrary—Mr. Apps asked him if it was true that he, Rees received 800l. a year on Mr. Vere's account—he said "Yes" it was—he then asked him if he would accept the bill with Vere—he said he would do anything to oblige Mr. Vere—Mr. Apps then drew out this promissory note. (Read: "March 23rd, 1875, four months' after date I [altered to "we"], promise to pay to Mr. Robert Vere on his order 260l. for value received. Thomas Rees & Co. Payable at 52, Chancery Lane.") I know nothing about the "I" being altered to "we"—the prisoner signed "Thomas Rees & Co."—I handed to him a cheque for 150l., ho had previously had 85l. from me, and 25l. he promised me for the accommodation—this (produced) is my cheque for 150l., I was induced to part with it by the prisoner representing himself to be Rees, Vere's solicitor, and I thought he was so, I thought it was quite right, as I asked the prisoner when I first went to the office how long he had been Vere's solicitor, and he said two years, and that he paid Vere 800l. a year for two years—the 260l. promissory note was never paid—subsequently, in April, a fresh application for money was made to me by Vere, while the promissory note was still running; I attended again with Vere at the office of Rees & Co.—I there saw the defendant—I said "How do you do," and he said "Very well thank you," and he appeared to know what business we had come on—Vere said that I had come to lend him 150l.: I asked Rees if he would accept a bill,
and he said "Yes"—a bill was drawn (produced)—I do not know whose writing it is, but this is the prisoner's signature—Rees or Vere produced the bill already drawn—the prisoner wrote the acceptance in my presence; I handed this cheque for 95l. to Vere—the bill was for 150l.—he offered to give me 10l. for the money, and I handed him the balance, 45l. in notes. (The bill and cheque were read, the acceptance to the bill was "Accepted at our office, Thomas Rees & Co.") I parted with my cheque and notes in consequence of Mr. Rees guaranteeing it, I understanding Johnson to be Rees & Co., and he said that he had the money quarterly, and he would see that I was paid, I believed him to be Mr. Rees, a solicitor—I thought him to be Vere's solicitor, and that Vere received from him 800l. a year—that bill" was never paid—I subsequently gave instructions to Mr. Apps, my attorney, for the purpose of recovering the money; I then discovered Rees to be the prisoner—when I gave the first cheque, I saw Vere and the prisoner coming towards the bank at King's Cross, on a bus together, 200 yards up Gray's Inn Lane—that was about an hour after I had handed over the cheque—I have seen Vere since—the last time I saw him was on the Sun day night, before the summons was taken out against Vere and Johnson—this case was four or five times before Mr. Vaughan at Bow Street—Vere did not appear on any of the occasions; I have not seen him since, or been able to ascertain where he is.
Cross-examined by MR. TORR. lama betting man—I have known Vere about five years—he is not a member of Tattersal's; I never saw him there—I will lay you 100l. to 6d., that he is not a member, and put the money down—I know he is not a member—I am there every Monday, and I never saw him there—I should think his age might be thirty—we were not very intimate—I did not find out who his relations are—he represented himself as having high connections—I have heard him suggest that he was somebody, and I took it for granted—he told me he had a sister who resided abroad, and that she was a person of considerable wealth—he told me that he had 800l. a year from her that she could not touch, and that he had about 2,500l. that was put under restraint and he sent it away—Johnson said she would, no doubt, send him whatever was owing—I now have reason to disbelieve that—I do not know that his sister, Mrs. Grant, does not exist, but I think if she supplies money to the amount of 800l. a year I should have got some money—Vere told me that he was connected with a young lady—he did not say he was paying court to her and was desirous of being engaged, and that her sister objected to the contract; I have heard nothing about it—what young lady; is she a young lady, tell me? She did not go to Mr. Apps' office, but I have seen her—I saw him go and speak to her in Holborn; I cannot tell whether going to or coming from Mr. Apps'—I know nothing about the sister not liking the proposed engagement; if I did hear of it I have forgotten all about it—to the best of my knowledge I know nothing about it—I might have heard of it, if I did I do not see that it has anything to do with this—I have not squeezed anything out of Vere, whatever I had from him he owed it me—the horse he backed did not always lose, sometimes it won—he may hare had more from me than I from him—I have two books which show the extent of my transactions with Vere; they are not here, they are at my house, 25, Harrington Square—I can fetch them before this case is over, I think—I really cannot tell you whether I won from Vere or he from me till I examine my books—if I laid him against the winner I paid him and
he did not pay me—he owed me 26l.—we had only three or four transactions; there were four meetings—I do not know whether he or I won on the general transactions because I have not searched my books since, and it is about five years ago—I never won 300l. from him on one transaction—there is not a balance of 300l. in my favour—I have never said so—the first time I went to 52, Chancery Lane was in February, and on that occasion I went with Vere—I was taken there on 25th February and this man was introduced to me as Mr. Rees, Mr. Vere's solicitor—I refused, on the 25th, to advance 300l. on getting warrant of attorney to enter up judgment, and I went away and I had a letter from Mr. Vere on the following morning.
Q. On the 26th February was it agreed that you should advance 100l., having stated that 200l. was already due, and that you should take as security a warrant of attorney to enter up judgment on three respective sums of 100l. each? A. I left it to my solicitor, it was something of that sort-on the 26th February there was 100l. due on an old debt, and I was to advance 200l. more; it was not 200l. due, and I was not to add another 100l. to it, making 300l.—this document (produced) never came to my knowledge before I was at the police-court—it was produced there by my attorney's clerk—I can account for how my attorney got it—Mr. Cork got it (Read: " To Josiah Johnson, Esq., 25, Harrington Square. Sir,—By Mr. Vere's authorisation we undertake, upon your advancing 100l. this day, to pay you such 100l. and the 200l. now over-due from Mr. Vere to you, making 300l., by three equal quarterly payments, commencing at Midsummer, 1875, such payments to be made from Mr. Vere's income, paid by Mrs. Helen Vere Grant. Yours truly, Thomas Kees & Co.") My solicitor did not, after that was in his hands, prepare a warrant of attorney and send his clerk, Cork, to 52, Chancery Lane, with it—I do not know anything about the warrant of attorney being prepared and taken to 52, Chancery Lane, for execution; I only know that I had not seen it—I was not told afterwards by Mr. Cork or Mr. Apps that when they took it to Johnson he said he could not witness it, for he was not an admitted attorney; I wish they had told me that, they would not have got any more money from me; I did not hear anything about it—I believe that Mr. Cork got it executed and witnessed by an attorney, Mr. Stretton, and paid over 95l. on my account—I do not remember being at the office, 52, Chancery Lane, in February, 1875, when a Mr. Dear was there—the first time I saw Mr. Dear was at the police-court—I know the man you are speaking of—I do not remember being with Vere in the office, 52, Chancery Lane, when Dear and other persons were present; I will swear I was not.
Q. Do you remember that while you were so there waiting, Dear and you and the others, that Johnson came in and passed the lobby and went into the room opposite? A. There was nobody in the office but me and Vere—Mr. Dear did not say "I believe that is Mr. Johnson, I must see Mr. Johnson first, I have important business and I cannot wait"—he was not there—I did not hear a conversation with Dear, and my asking as to the fact that Johnson the clerk, was Johnson, and the betting man was. Johnson; nothing of the kind took place—Dear did not ask me whether I knew a person of the name of Hope Johnson, and whether I could not tell him whether he was likely to get some money out of him, for he owed him a large sum of money; it is all fabrication—it appears that I only left 100l. with Mr. Apps to go to the borrower; I believed I left 200l.—I was cross-examined
about it—I swore I left 200l.; I believed I did leave 200l.—there was a remand, and on the sccond occasion the question was put to me, "How much money will you now say you left?" and I said "I will swear positively I left 200l.—I had never thought about it since, but I had really agreed with Mr. Vere and left 100l.; I thought it was 200l., although I saw that document—I believed I had left the 200l. with Mr. Apps, but it was a mistake, I only left 100l.—when I advanced the second sum on the 25th or 26th April Mr. Apps was not with me, I went with Vere alone—I expect the bill was taken already drawn, it was produced ready drawn—either Vere or the prisoner produced it ready drawn—it was accepted by the defendant—I took possession of it after it had been accepted; I am sure of that—I must have taken possession of it, I will swear I did; that is the best of my memory.
Q. On the contrary, was not the bill brought to you enclosed in an envelope by a messenger named Frederick Jones? A. I do not know such a person unless it is the Jones who is a witness in the case, and I never saw him until I was at the police-court—I did not afterwards get that bill from Mr. Vere; Vere did not tell me that he had received it through the hands of a person named Jones, in an envelope; I am sure of that—I did not get it from Mr. Vere out of the office, I got it in the office, and there was not a fourth person there—I was there when the defendant accepted the bill; there is no mistake about that—I am sure I did not get it from Vere subsequently.
Re-examined. I think this is the first time I have been asked about this being handed to me by Vere after I left the office—I don't remember being asked before—I cannot tell to a few pounds which way the result was of my betting with Vere—I should have to search my books, and it is five years ago—I did not bet with him at more than four meetings; the last time was four years ago, and he had owed me 267. when he left off—I went to the office of Rees & Co. on the 25th, and got this letter from Vere on the morning of the 26th. (Bead: "Thursday evening, February 25th. Dear Johnson—I am sorry you have had so much bother to-day; I have seen my solicitor again, and will meet you at the Baths, at 12 o'clock to-morrow morning, and will have with me the letter exactly as you wished from him. Although I am comparatively a stranger, permit me to offer to Mrs. Johnson and her niece, my kind regard, and believe me, yours faithfully, R. Vere.") He had introduced me Johnson as Rees, on the 25th, as his solicitor—I did not go again when the security was taken—I did not hear, from Mr. Apps or his clerk, or anybody that he was not Rees, but Johnson, not till he had been sued, and I had advanced the money—I never heard of this document till it was produced at the police-court, or of any warrant of attorney.
THOMAS ROBERT APPS . I am a solicitor, of 7, South Square, Gray's Inn—I have been acting as solicitor for the prosecutor some years—he and Vere called on 25th February, at my office—he was going to advance Vere some money, and I advised him as to the best security to take—no one was to be guarantee then—I understood the prosecutor to say that he could not get a guarantee, and I thought a warrant of attorney would be better than a bill—Mr. Cork, my clerk, carried out the transaction, and I knew nothing further about it, except that it had been done—I did not see the document for a considerable time afterwards—on 23rd March, I saw the prosecutor again, when he said that he had arranged to lend some more money to Vere,
and in consequence of other statements he made to me, I went with him and Vere to 52, Chancery Lane—(I don't know whether Vere had come with him, but I saw them together)—Vere walked in first, he took us upstairs into some offices at the top of the house—there was a clerk there; I did not notice anyone else—Vere said that Mr. Rees was not in, and asked the prosecutor and myself to go and sit in his room, and we went—shortly afterwards the defendant came in—I don't remember Vere saying anything, but the prosecutor said "Oh, here is Mr. Rees"—I then spoke to the defendant I said "Oh, Mr. Rees, my chent, Mr. Johnson tells me he is about to advance a sum of money to your client, Mr. Vore, and I am instructed that Mr. Vere has 800l. a year from, his sister, which comes' through your hands, is that so?"—he said "Yes"—I said "I am also instructed that you are willing to guarantee the loan, and that it is proposed to do it by a bill to which you will become, a party;" he said "Yes"—I then drew this bill, "I promise to pay," &c.—it is now "We promise"—the defendant appears to have altered it, but I did not notice it at the time—the "We" was not written by me—after drawing it I got up from the chair, and the defendant sat down and signed it, and upon that the prosecutor handed him a cheque for 150l., I think the amount was—I knew nothing. of the man before—I knew nothing more till the note became due—I then issued a writ against Rees on it, and there was an order for leave to appear—there was substituted service—Mr. Rees could not be found—eventually judgment was signed, and then they took out a summons to set the judgment aside—it turned out that in the interim while the three days were running, three days after service, they filed-an affidavit for leave to defend, and they got leave, but they did not serve the order on me—I believed that no such order had been obtained, and signed judgment—it was obtained ex-parte, and they got leave to appear upon affidavit—the Master made an order to set aside the judgment, because they had got leave to appear—this is an office copy of the affidavit of James Thomas upon which the order was made. (This was the affidavit of James Thomas, of 52, Chancery Lane, staling that a copy order for substituted service of the annexed copy writ of summous was left at Rees' office, on 16th August, in his absence, and that this affidavit was made for leave for Rees, who was suffering from illness, to enter an appearance.) That was successful—there was another affidavit, stating that the housekeeper had not given them the order—Mr. Thomas is the gentleman who was called at the police-court for the defence.
Cross-examined by MR. TORR. I did not go to Chancery Lane until the 23rd March, but I was aware of my clerk, Mr. Cork, going there—I saw the warrant of attorney that was executed, possession of which was taken by Mr. Cork, about the time that the bill became due—my clerks. have been with me many years—I cannot say whether Cork sometimes passes for Apps, I should think it very wrong; he would not be in my office five minutes if I heard of it—I do not know that gentlemen of the Bar ever speak to a clerk as a principal—I was never called by the name of my principal when I was a clerk—I went over to the office with the prosecutor on the 23rd of March; I did not go after the prosecutor and Vere had been there; we all three went together—I am perfectly clear about that—I have no entry of going separately—they produced their Chancery Lane, call book, but that was their book and not mine, and I forget how my name appears in it—when I did see the warrant of attorney I observed that it was not witnessed by Rees, but not at the time, not till the time of the proceedings
upon this bill, when I began to make inquiries—Cork retaiued the proceedings for the purpose of stamping—I became acquainted with it about the time of the writ being issued, and then I observed that the person who witnessed the warrant of attorney was not Rees. but Stretton—it needs an admitted attorney to witness a warrant of attorney, acting on the part of the party granting it—I consider Mr. Cork perfectly competent—I should suppose that if the person my clerk took to be Rees had been an admitted attorney he would have executed it without going to get somebody else to witness it—the defendant was not at my place of business to my knowledge on the evening of the 25th February; I will swear that I did not see him—my call book does not show that he was there; I have got it here——' here is an entry, "Johnson and another and Mr. Rees"—Sweetlove, my clerk, wrote that; he is here—I did not see them—there is no time entered, but it is low down in the day—I do not remember the prosecutor leaving 200l. at my office; whatever money he left he gave to Mr. Cork—I was not there—I have said before "I have no recollection of 200l. being left on the 26th February, my mind is a perfect blank upon it"—I meant that if I had received money I must have recollected it—I do not feel that sometimes my mind becomes a blank—I was asked, and I said "No"—Mr. Cork has got his own room—I was not in his room—I handed the prosecutor over to Mr. Cork, I was not there.
Re-examined. It is not the custom, as far as I know, for clerks to personate their principals, or to sign bills of exchange in the name of the firm, without special authority.
JOHN DAVID CORK . I am managing clerk to Mr. Apps—I first saw the prosecutor on the 25th February, and when they went out I saw Miss Clifford and Mr. Thomas—there were not two separate interviews; Johnson and Vere came into my room and were alone with me; Thomas and Miss Clifford were not in the room—the prosecutor said that he had arranged to lend Vere 100l., that he also owed him 200l., and if Mr. Rees would guarantee it he would let him have the money—I mentioned a warrant of attorney, having consulted my principal, and Vere said that it would be given—they then left, and I believe I saw Miss Clifford; I saw her next day, and I believe she was the same person—on the 26th I saw the prisoner at Mr. Rees' office—I had not been there before—I went there with Vere, and Miss Clifford followed—it was about 12 o'clock—I saw the defendant—Miss Clifford was not present, she sat in the outer office—when I went there Vere said to the clerk, Carter, "Is he in?"—the clerk said "Yes," and he pushed his way in, and said "Now, then, let us sign the papers"—the prisoner said "All Mr. Vere cares about is to get money and go and get drunk with it"—that was in Vere's presence—he said "I will do it if you will guarantee the repayment of the 100l. and 200l. which he already owes"—I had prepared a warrant of attorney, and I asked him if he would sign it—he said "Yes"—this was the guarantee which he sat down and wrote in my presence—the defendant read through the warrant of attorney, and hesitated over the attestation clause a minute or two, and then said "Mr. Rees is not here to-day, and I am not admitted yet, but I will take you to somebody who will attest it"—he called at one or two rooms and he took us to Mr. Stretton, who witnessed it, and the wan-ant of attorney was handed to me, and I took them back to Mr. Apps' office and put them in the safe—I made no communication to the prosecutor about his signing it before Mr. Stretton—I did not see him for a long time afterwards;
hor did I mention it to Mr. Apps, but I said that the matter had been completed all right—I had nothing to do with the proceedings in reference to the 260l.; I made a call after one instalment became due, and saw Mr. Carter, who said that Mr. Rees was away ill, but I did not have the conduct of the proceedings.
Cross-examined. I knew on 25th February before I parted with the 90l. odd that the prisoner's name was not Thomas Rees, but I did not know it before; I knew it when he declined to attest the warrant of attorney, not before—I was instructed not to part with the money unless Mr. Rees guaranteed it, but I considered it was a sufficient guarantee when his clerk gave it.
By THE COURT. When I got it I knew that he was Johnson—he handed me the guarantee first, I did not know then that he was not Rees; it was only the moment afterwards that I knew that he was not.
By MR. TOBR. I knew then that I had not got the personal, though I may have had the actual gnarantee of Thomas Rees—the prosecutor gave me 95l., and I of course deducted Mr. Apps' charges, and gave him 90l. in notes, and 1l. 4s.—I did not see the defendant afterwards at Mr. Apps office, and I don't believe he came.
Re-examined. When he signed the guarantee I understood him to be Thomas Rees—I handed him the money after the warrant of attorney was signed—that was given by Vere—having completed the matter it passed from my mind, and I did not trouble my head, I simply told Mr. Apps that the matter was completed.
JOHN PITHAN (Police Sergeant E 44). I am one of the summoning officers who do duty at Bow Street—three months ago I received a summons to serve on Vere—I went with it to Maryland Road, Kensington—the address given to me at the police-court, and made enquiries there but was not able to see Vere, there was no such person known—the matter was adjourned before the Magistrate from time to time for his attendance, and subsequently a warrant was handed to me for execution which I have not been able to execute—I was present at the police-court on each occasion, and on the first two occasions Vere was represented by some one, I will not be sure whether it was by solicitor and counsel—it was stated in my presence and the prisoner's presence that he was unable to be traced, and in Johnson's presence a statement was made about Vere.
Witnesses for the defence.
HENRY CARTER . I was a clerk to Mr. Rees during his life—I entered his service on 8th February last year and continued till he died in September—I am at present in Mr. Hope's service, his successor, at 52, Chancery Lane—there is a general clerk's office to which clients come first, the middle office; that is the office which you enter first—I am there and keep the call-book in the absence of the other clerk—the name outside the office door is Rees & Co. and Johnson—that is so that persons who come into the office must see the names—I was there on 25th February—-this is the call-book; I find the name of "Vere and friend" calling at 2.30 on that day—I did not know who the friend was at that time—when Vere called he said "Is Mr. Johnson in?"—I said "No"—later in the day I find Mr. Apps' name as calling at 4.10 alone; he asked for Mr. Rees—I told him that Mr. Rees was not at business, he was ill, but Mr. Johnson would be in shortly—Mr. Apps left, and when the prisoner came in I told him that Apps had been there and he left the office to see Mr. Apps, I believe, and he was absent
some time—next day, the 26th, I find an entry of "Vere and Josiah Johnson" at 11 o'clock, but that is not ray writing, it was written afterwards—on the same morning I find an entry of Mr. Dear and Mr. Hollington at 10.45; the "10" is my writing, but not the "45"—they afterwards came back again—I was then in the office and Vere and the prosecutor were in the office when they came in—the defendant returned while they were all four there and went into the inner room where he generally sits—he passed through where they were sitting, and Mr. Dear, who is rather an impetuous man, said in his usual style "I must see Johnson first," and he went into the room where Johnson had gone, leaving the others where they were—after a time 1)ear came out again, and then Vere and the prosecutor went in—after that, I believe, Dear was called in again, but I was not in the room, and, therefore, I cannot say; I was in my own room—Mr. Cork called afterwards on the same day; I cannot tell from my book at what time, but it was at the latter part of the afternoon—the defendant was there then and the prosecutor was shown in to him—when Cork called that afternoon I think he asked for Mr. Rees—on 23rd March I find an entry "Vere and friend "at 2 o'clock—I cannot tell you how long they stayed—I find an entry of Mr. Apps calling that day at 2.30—he came alone, it is entered separately—he enquired for Mr. Rees—I told him Mr. Rees was not in, but Mr. Johnson was, and showed him into the room to the prisoner—I cannot say whether Vere and friend were there when Mr. Apps came.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. I will ewear that this "Thursday, 25th February "in this call book is my writing—I will swear that I was there on the 25th February and for a week afterwards—"Friday, the 26th" is ray writing too, I believe—this little entry "Josiah Johnson," is in the defendant's writing—I do not know when it was put in; he has inserted it in the call-book, but I don't know when—I take the general ink in the office—there are several bottles but not one particular ink—this "Re Vere" is Frazer's writing, a clerk in the office—this "Loan" is the prisoner's writing—I do not know what "Vere loan "is in the call-book for—I did not enter it—I do not think these figures "11 "after Vere are my writing, I but I cannot say; yes, they are mine—I wrote them in the same ink—I put the "11" so far off as to leave a space for this "Josiah Johnson," because there was no occasion to put anything else but "11"—I will swear that it is my writing, written at at the same time, with the same pen and ink, and yet, that I did not write this "Josiah Johnson"—this "J," "2," and "12.30" are all in my writing—it is principally my writing—I first went to the office of Rees & Co. on 8th February—Mr. Johnson engaged me first of all, and secondly Mr. Rees; I said so at the police-court—I was asked by Mr. Wiiliams who engaged me, and I said virtually Mr. Johnson did, but afterwards Mr. Rees confirmed it—I did not see much of Mr. Rees for the first two months, I don't think I saw anything of him—I was there two months before I saw my master, and then he used to come two or three times a week—he stayed three or four hours, and used to write his own correspondence—I cannot say whether he kept copies of his letters—I got 25s. a week—I always got it from Johnson—he was supposed to be the cashier—I looked to him for it—Rees was not always drunk when he came; he was sober on numerous occasions.
Q. He used to be at the public-house, used he not, and to come up for a few shillings occasionally? A. He used to como up sometimes and say he would not have his office made use of by people coining there
walking in and out as they liked—that was when he was sober—he may have stayed three or four hours on that occasion, and after April he was very frequently at 1 be place—I am there now—the firm is Rees, Hope & Co.—the prisoner is there when he is at home—he is not Rees, Hope, & Co, but Mr. Hope is—he lives at Sunderland—I have seen him to-day outside here, and I saw him about a fortnight after Mr. Rees died—ho is rather a short man—he was in practice in Sunderland, I believe—Rees lived at Fulham—I am told that he stopped at Sandys' lodging-house—I do not believe that that is a common lodging-house, at 6d. a night, it is in Eagle Street, Holbon—I have seen Sandys here this morning, and I dare say he in court now—I will swear that I have not fetched Rees from Sandy's, or seen him there—I have never been there—I brought an action for Sandys and got 50l. damages—I paid him—how is it possible for me to swear what Johnson did, or Rees, if you like to say so—by Sandy own admission he had 15l. and 30l. was lodged aganist him for a judgment—that was money he had received for counsel's fees—I don't know whether he got the whole of that, all I know is that he had 15l. given to him in cash, and there was an attachment lodged against the damages, for a judgment against him by a debtor of his, whicb would leave very little—I will not swear that a sixpence was paid, how can 1? I did not pay it, how can I tell what Rees & Co. did?—I do not know that nothing was paid under the attachment—(Sandys was called in) I swear in the presence of that gentleman, that I have not fetched Rees from Sandys, and I swear that I never knew Sandys till within the last two months—I was out of a situation—I was introduced to Johnson through Jones, who I have known for years and knew him when lie was at Leadenhall Street—I was at Masterman, Sandilands & Co., Aldersgate Street—I was not discharged for drunkenness—Mr; Masterman was a man in years, and he would not allow me to use my knowledge of the law which I knew a little about, he said "No, you must not catch old birds with chaff," I tried to explain to him one day, about taking out a summons for change of venue from Surrey to Middlesex, I said "You cannot do it without an affidavit"—he said "Don't you tell me that, you can't catch old birds with chaff," and wo had a few words over it, but that was not the whole of it—this was the other part of it; there was a question when I was making up my accounts at the end of the month, and I put 58. worth of stamps to one month, instead of to another month—that was not what I was discharged for, it was because I had a woman hanging after me—on the impulse of the moment, I may have entered in my diary "Got the kick out"—allow me to look at the book—well, it is scratched out—I cannot see" kicked out"—it might be "Carter kicked out"—I do not know I am sure whether Carter was kicked out, but I know I was not kicked out—I am not certain whether I made the entry "Carter kicked out;" possibly I might have; it is a figure of speech—I only knew Thomas when I came to Rees and Co.; I swear I never knew him before—when I left Masterman & Co. I went to Rees & Co., but not at once, not for a month—I went to Hammersmith and lived with a woman, unfortunately for me, for she brought me to grief—I would not have gone to Roes & Co. if I bad known what I know since—I am in their employ now because it suits me to stop there—I do not think I pawned all the woman's clothes—I don't care if she is here—she pawned my clothes; I will swear she pawned the only coat I had to my back—I did not pawn her clothes or take her late husband's
watch; nothing at all—he was not a jockey—I went to a coffee-house and lived with her in the week before 7th February—I was there till April—I did not go there on the 27th February, but I was there on the 27th—I went there on the 3rd February, as near as I can recollect—I went to Rees & Co. on the 8th February; I adhere to that—I have left the woman now; she called at Rees' office several times; I did not call one Cuff to turn her out—I know Cuff, he is an advertising agent in Portland Square; he was occasionally at Rees &, Co.'s—I will swear I did not call on him to turn her out; he locked her up on his own account for annoying him at his place of business, and I charged her as well; I will swear that; it was because she had been hanging about Southampton Buildings all day, and had been' taking, I suppose, too much beer and was excited—women are excited some-times, and, considering I had had nine months of it, I thought it was quite time enough to stop it, and I locked her up—I have heard of Campbell & Co.; I don't know who they are, they are supposed to be law agents—I do not know whether it is carried on by W. H. Johnson, LL.D.—Mr. W. H. Johnson, LL.D., is the prisoner—Campbell & Co.'s law agency has not been carried on at 52, Chancery Lane, since I have been there; I do not know whether this is one of their prospectuses, but I have seen them knocking about in the office at 46, Southampton Buildings, not at Rees & Co.'s; I will swear that—I used to have my private letters addressed to Campbell & Co.'s, Southampton Buildings, because I did not want that d——d woman to see everything—Thomas was my friend there—that is the Mr. Thomas who describes himself of 52, Chancery Lane, Middlesex; he is secretary at Campbell & Co.'s—I do not know how long he has been so—he is James Thomas—I cannot say that he is of 52, Chancery Lane—I did not help him to prepare his affidavit; I swear that; nor did he read it over to me or show it to me—I have not sworn it in my affidavit—I remember the proceedings to set aside the judgment—I made a joint affidavit; it was with Jones, I think—I fancy I did—I swore that as far as my memory served, the order was not served at a certain time—on my oath I did not help Thomas to draw up his affidavit—Thomas is at Campbell & Co.'s now—I say in my deposition "There were two other clerks, Thomas and Frazer"—that is the same Thomas; he was clerk at 52, Chancery Lane as well—he does a great deal of out-door business; he attends summonses—I cannot tell you whether he was really secretary to Campbell & Co., but I believe he was published as secretary—Mr. William Dear was, I believe, a director—I have never seen him at Campbell & Co.'s—he is pretty often at our place, once or twice a week, putting Sundays out of the question, because he is a religious man and goes to church—I believe he is a preacher—I see in this call book "Vere and friends, 23rd March"—I don't think "and friends "is struck out—I see Apps' name, I will swear that that is my writing—I merely put "and friends "after I had drawn the line; it is not struck out at all—I did that because I drew the line first of all—my belief is that I wrote" and friends "after I drew the line—I will not swear that this "10.50" on 24th April "Vere" was not originally "11.50"—I do not know who has altered it—I can't say whether it has been altered—it looks like "11.50," and I should think I entered it "11.50," if it was 11.50 I should enter it 11.50—I should think according to the dates that it is 11.50—1 will not swear that it is 11.50 or 10.50; 10.45 is the first entry—I will not swear that I first entered it 11.50, but I think I did; I adhere to that—there is a doubt whether it is a "10 "or "11."
Re-examined. "Vere and friend "on March 24th is in my writing—I have got "Vere" in my writing in February to which is added, but not in my writing, "and Josiah Johnson"—we kept an account with Vere for the work done for him—I suppose it would be necessary to post the books to show with whom he came on a particular day—" and friend" being added would show that Vere came with Johnson "and Josiah Johnson" is in the prisoner's writing—I made out the common law costs—it would be the prisoner's duty if he saw an entry which was ambiguous in itself to explain upon what account that person came—March 23rd is all in my writing except he last entry, here is "Vere and friend 2 o'clock, Apps 2.30 "all in my writing—I presume that the friend was Johnson but I did not know it at the time—on 24th April the entry is "Mr. Vere 10.50"—it appears to me that this "11" on 24th April was "11" first of all, but my impression is that it stood 11.50 and it appears to have been marked over and to be now 10.50—it has been altered by somebody else, not by me—I do not always look at the clock to see the hour at which visitors come—it does not occasionally happen that I have to alter the time, when I have once entered the hour I always leave it, we have a watch in the office, but if they have made away with it we cannot tell the time—the importance of putting
down the hour is to tell as near as possible the time the client called—we do not charge them more in the morning than the afternoon, it is 6s. 8d. just the same—nothing was to be gained by altering it from 11.50 to 10.50; that is what I cannot understand—I am quite sure that the subsequent entry of "Apps "alone is in my writing, and I can swear that he did not come accompanied by somebody else—I got 2l. wages at Masterman's and 25s. at Rees, but I have overtime to 30s. a week—Mr. Johnson first gave me my engagement there, I did not see Rees for six weeks, and then he confirmed it, he said "You are engaged here, and I should like to see the business carried on properly, my health is very precarious, and as far as I can go everything shall go on right"—Mr. Rees was a living breathing creature, and could speak; he was quite alive then, and a very substantial myth, if you had seen him—he was good to have a pint—he gained a law suit when the other lawyers said that there was no case—I do not know that the Campbell Agency has ceased or that Thomas has ceased to be with it—they advertise and say "Every man his own lawyer"—they interfere with the professional trades' union—they are knob-sticks—I do not know whether Mr. Dear is a member of Campbell's—he often came to our place, he was a client.
WILLIAM DEAR . I am an upholsterer at Hyde Park Corner—I have been there about forty years—I know the late Thomas Rees, of 52, Chancery Lane, well—he acted for me as my solicitor—I have known the defendant between three and four years as near as I can tell—his name is William Harril Johnson—I know that he was an articled clerk in Rees' house because he told me and my friend so, and Mr. Rees told me the same—I know no-thing about his articles being transferred to Mr. Hope—as near as I can tell I have seen Mr. Rees there generally two or three times a week—I have had Equity suits and ordinary common law suits and County Court suits—I am unfortunatily very much a patron of the lawyers—I some times get a bill, which I cannot get the cash for, and I have a great many interpleader summonses, more than most men in London—I have discounted bills for Rees and Co. to a large amount; I have had bills from Mr. Rees and I have had promises and I have had other bills put into my hand—when bills came
to me by way of security, or bills endorsed to me, the signature of the firm was put either to an original document or an endorsement in the presence of Thomas Rees, Mr. Johnson would write "Thomas Rees and Co." by Rees' order—I was at 52, Chancery Lane on 25th and 26th Febuary 1875, I think I was there four days that week—Mr. Alfred and Mr. Thomas Hollington went with me on the 26th—Mr. Thomas Hollington is here—I think I went in first about 10 o'clock and I don't think Mr. Johnson was in—I went to see Mr. Rees and neither of them were there—I believe I went out and came in again—while we were there I saw Mr. Vere and the prosecutor in the outside office but do not think I had any conversation with them—I heard Vere say that he was very queer and wanted a bottle of soda water fetched, and I think Carter was asked to go, and he came back and said that he could not get a bottle—Johnson afterwards came in and went into the room on the right; the opposite room—as you go in from Chancery Lane there is "Rees and Co." and I think on the next floor or the nest, "Rees & Co.," and when you got to the top there is "Rees & Co.," and "Mr. Johnson," with a separation between the two—I don't remember whether there is anything on the door of the room into which Johnson went—when he came in I almost think Thomas said "Here is Mr. Johnson"—the prosecutor was in a position to hear that as well as myself, everyone could hear it, it is an open place—I then said "I must see him first because here is an interpleader case; and I have brought these two gentlemen to be security for me for 500l."; I think it is was about the club at Brighton—I think the other two both spoke together and said "We must see Mr. Johnson directly," and I said I must see him first—the name of Johnson was, I believe, mentioned by both of them—I said "I must see Mr. Johnson first," and he would go as Mr. Rees was not there, over to Master Johnson at Rolls Buildings, because Mr. Hollington could not wait—having said that I went into Mr. Johnson room—no one was there I believe but himself—I did not stop long because I requested him to come across the road directly—I don't know who succeeded me in going into the room—I don't know what became of Vere and the betting man—I went over to Stone Buildings with the defendant—we then returned to 52, Chancery Lane, and I think we met Vere in the street, and he said "I must see you directly"—Johnson said "I have to go to the Judges Chambers for a few minutes"—no one was with Vere,but this man Johnson, the betting party—that was said at "the foot of the door when we come out of "Stone Buildings—we all went up into the office again waiting for the, defendant to come in because I had some other business besides the interpleader matter, and when he came in the other Johnson was in the same room where we had been before—I asked him about Mr. David Hope Johnson, who owed me 800l., hearing that he had some connection with the turf, and he said that I was not likely to get a penny—I said "You are a nice lot of Johnson's altogether"—I think I waited there till they had transacted their business, and I then went out and started Mr. Alfred Hollington, who was sitting in his trap below, and I returned and settled some other business with Mr. Johnson—I said to Josiah Johnson "I think you are a Staffordshire man"—he said something about Mr. Vere, who said I that he had a sister who was a rich lady, and I think he asked Mr. Hollington, who said "Who are the parties?"——he said "They are on the turf," and he said "They are not good enough for me"—I put it that he
was three times spoken to as Johnson, and not as Rees—I spoke to him as Johnson, in the presence of the other Johnson—I always have done.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE, I have known Mr. Johnson two or three years—I did not know him while he was practising under the name of Miller—I swear that—you know I was present when Johnson gave evidence in "Dear and Edmunds"—I heard him cross-examined then—I don't recollect hearing him admit that when he was called as a witness on one side he had given his evidence to the other side, or that he had given a paper to the other side to say what evidence he would give to them—I am cautious—I have no opinion to give as to how he came out of that cross-examination—Johnson did not act as broker on that occasion; I think it was some man in Hand Court, Holborn—it was not Rickaby—I believe the man lives between Holborn and Bedford Row—how could Johnson be the broker? he is an articled clerk—I believe him—I don't know whether he has any articles entered; it is not my business to look into articles of partnership—I think the first time I saw him was at the house where my goods were taken away—he did not put a distress into a lady's house; I believe it was a man who lives between Holborn and Bedford Row—if you had the lawyer here he would tell you whether the distress was put into the lady's house for half a year more than was due—I kept two lawyers in my counting house and paid them weekly, but not to practice as lawyers; one was Mr. Hunter, who does all my agreements for houses furnished and unfurnished—I paid him three guineas a week, and I kept; an Irish lawyer, Mr. Basterville, but not as lawyer, as clerk—I had no objection to take a little good advice from them—I require a great deal—I cannot say whether I have brought 100 actions in the last ten years—I am not a director of "Campbell & Co." that I know of—I do not know whether this "W. Dear, Esq., 30, and 31, St. George's Place," on this prospectus is all a myth—I suppose there was some intention of bringing out something; you know something is required to enable a man to be a director of a particular company—show me my qualification—my son is not in the office of Campbell & Co. to my knowledge; he was with Mr. Rees, but only a short time—he might have been there twelve months, but really I cannot tell you the exact time—I have seen "Campbell & Co., Law Agency," put up in Southampton Buildings—I mean to say that I have never seen this prospectus—I have an impression that Rees said something to me one day and I said "No," and I never consented to be a director—I do not know the Llanthony, Oxide, Lead, and Copper Mining Co. (limited)—capital 1,200l."—I know "William Dear, Esq., of 12, St. George's Place, Knightsbridge"—I know nothing about this prospectus—somebody has taken a liberty with my name—I know nothing about "Auditors, Campbell & Co., Chancery Lane, Mr. F. O'Brien, secretary"—I heard of Mr. O'Brien, as a solicitor, in the Exchequer, the other day, and there he is—I saw him at the police-court, but I did not know he was Mr. O'Brien, or whether he appeared for Vere—he never stood up in Court—he met me coming from the Exchequer Court, but I did not know he was Mr. O'Brien till he stopped me in Parliament Street, and told me who he was—he was not instructing Mr. Matthews, the barrister, before the Magistrate—when the policeman asked me who was defending Vere; I said "Young Mr. Matthews"—I never saw O'Brien before, and did not know who he was—he never acted as my solicitor to my knowledge—I did not hear of an action between Lynch and Thomas Rees, in which they had seized some furniture—I put in a claim to the furniture
—I do not know that Mr. O'Brien appeared as my solicitor—there was an execution against Rees, the furniture being mine—I do not know who appeared for me—I forget whether it was on 26th April, 1875. (A notice signed A. O'Brien, stating that the furniture in question belonged to William Dear was put in). My son heard of this during my absence and gave notice as it was his business to do—I know nothing about O'Brien appearing for me, and I have never paid him—Johnson may have instructed him to appear—he would be a very nice man if he did not, having my business, try to protect my interest—I had an impression that some Counsel acted—Johnson asked me to supply him with furniture—he said that Mr. Rees was coming into the office, 52, Chancery Lane, that he was a very clever man coming to practice there and would I do it, and I said that I had no objection to do it—I do not know when that was, without my books, but I think it was between two and three years ago—it was my furniture—anyone that I can get the hire from was to pay for it—I like to get money out of people—I got between 700l. and 800l. out of Hope Johnson, and I believe I got a judgment against him—I only know what Rees told me twelve or eighteen months ago—I suppose it is a regular judgment subsisting now; I have not seen the judgment, but he told me so—I served a writ on Johnson (produced)—I do not know whose writing it is, certainly not mine—I will show you my writing in a moment with a pen and ink—I served David Hope Johnson on Lewes' racecourse last year, close to Brighton—he was stopping in the hotel at Brighton—it was for the hire—I swear that no-part of it is in my writing—I do not know that I served it; I do not know, but what you have been getting that up—I really don't know whether I signed a judgment on it—I don't sign judgments; I am not a lawyer—I haw heard that it was set aside—I do not know anything about the writ—I served another writ at Newmarket in 1873, and I can give you the secret of all that—I do not know whether a writ was issued on the 24th, the day after—I did not see it—I instructed Mr. Rees to attend to the matter; I was told that Mr. Hope Johnson would be at Newmarket—I drove up to Chancery Lane; one of the clerks handed me a writ; I drove to the station and went to Newmarket, went to the hotel and asked if David Hope Johnson was there—they said "He is up at the course," and as he rode down the course with the Earl of Stamford and Warrington, an acquaintance of mine, he said "How do you do Dear," and I served him—it was last year that I served him at Lewes because he never would pay—this copy writ is not a forgery; there is no forgery—he said "It is a little mistake"—I said "You ought to have known better than make mistakes sending me all that distance on that wet day"—I do not think Johnson was attending to that business or I should have had some money—he is sharper than some of his clerks—I was going to the master's office on that day—my appointment was I believe at 11 o'clock—it was not a reference in Dear and Garrett, don't waste precious time—I could preach to you, if I had you quietly—I can lean preach in a railway, I never get into a pulpit—if Mr. Carter says that I go to church and preach, he knew nothing about me—suppose I do preach what would be the result of that?—I had not a case of Dear and Dr. Garrett, you mean the she doctress Mrs. Garrett not Dr. Garrett—her name is Anderson now—I do not know any Dr. Garrett, I know Mr. Garrett—I brought an action against him, I think it was for 2,700l. or 2,800l—I got an award made me of 300 of freehold land at Aldborough in Suffolk, and materials to the value of 600l. or 700l.—I got about 800l.—I could not
prove articles delivered, and therefore I was thrown upon that point and lost my articles; how dare you to say it is a forgery, Sir, I am not here to suffer a sa thief or a forger, Sir—I had to pay costs but I have got the land and the materials, but have not got them delivered yet, and therefore I shall have to bring another action—an agreement properly stamped was produced before the Master.—there were no interlineations in it—the Master found against me to a certain extent, but only because I could not prove articles delivered, but he gave me the 1,200 of freehold land and the materials, and I have been waiting seven years for it—I furnish houses for young gentlemen, but not for many young ladies—I have had some of the best customers of the day—I charge hire for the furniture, and deterioration if there is delapidation, but those we have to prove—I do not do much in bill discounting, I believe some of the people I do business with do; I asked you to try a good bill of yours before Baron Martin, and then you might try me, but you have never done it—I never, heard the defendant sing or play—he did not want a piano of me—I forgot whether Brinsmead & Co. wrote to me about him—I had great confidence in his honesty—I do not know anything about bis giving his evidence on both sides in Dear v. Edmunds—I know I could not get my money out, I sent and paid half a crown the other day, but it did no good—I do not know whether this is the draft evidence produced on the part of Dear v. Edmunds, but I believe it is Johnson's writing—here is Mr. Miller who was struck off the Rolls at the bottom of it—I had something to do with his being struck off the Rolls—I know Rickaby; I don't know whether he is the secretary of the United Lead Oxide Mining Company (limited)—I am not a director; if he has put me down I have never consented—I do not know whether O'Brien is the solicitor—I did not furnish Campbell & Cos office, I furnished 52, Chancery Lane," but I never saw Campbell & Co. there to my knowledge; I only knew Mr. Rees there as Thomas Rees & Co—I do not know when the premises were taken, or whether they were taken by Johnson; I never heard from him that he took them—I know nothing about the rent or who pays it.
By THE COURT. When I let furniture I do not inquire what the rent is, or whether it is paid—if Mr. Cole wanted me to furnish a house for him I should not inquire whether the rent was paid—I furnished a house in Grosvenor Square for a clergyman, and never made any inquiry—I might know something of you as Commissioner Kerr, and that would be enough for me; I should only like to get a good order from you.
By MR. COLE. I claimed the furniture in ". Linnaker and Rees"—Johnson did not claim it four days before I did, and say that Rees had only got the use of the apartments; this is all new to me—this is not Johnson's writing; the signature looks like Mr. Johnson's; it is "Linnaker." (This was a notice to withdraw the man in possession at the top floor of 52, Chancery Lane, the premises being the property of the person signing the notice.) I believe when that took place I was out of town, and he might have written it to protect the furniture till I came to town—I was told about it, and I did claim it; it is still my property, was and is—I know of no case but one—I simply claim my property—it is of no consequence what it is—I tell you it was and is my property to-day, and the Judge said to the opposite solicitor "I am afraid you have no case," and he said "No, I shall withdraw"—I do not remember about the pianoforte—this letter, is in my writing. (Read: "Dec.6. Dear Sir,—I have great confidence in Mr.
Johnson, of Camden Road, and would willingly trust him with furniture to 200l. or 300l.; as well as in his great abilities. Wm. Dear.") The proof of that is that I had already done it—I do not know whether he ever got a piano, or whether a van was sent to take it away, or whether there was an action about it—I suppose Messrs. Brinsmead must have sent me a letter, and that was my reply—I do not know whether it was to know whether they could trust him with a piano—this letter is written on my paper—there is no doubt that they wrote me a letter, and that was my answer—I do not know that they are pianoforte manufacturers; I have no transactions with them; I think I have heard of the name—if you had given me notice I should probably have found the letter if I have it.
Friday, Feb. 4th, 1876.
THOMAS WILLIAM HOLLINGTON . I am a pawnbroker, carrying on business in Walworth—on the 26th February I went to 52, Chancery Lane, with my brother and Mr. Dear—my reason for telling you the date is that I had to go to Stone Buildings to become security, with my brother; we were bound over in 500l. each, and that was the first time I was in Rees' office; that was the 26th February—after being bound over I went to 52, Chancery Lane, with Mr. Dear—I do not remember seeing anyone there when we got back, but I did not go into the office, because Mr. Johnson was not there; I only went into the intermediate place—I did not go into the clerks' office—I waited there for the defendant's return, and during that time persons who I believe to have been Vere and the prosecutor came in—when the defendant came back whoever was waiting tried to go by, and Mr. Dear said "No, I must see Johnson first"—the persons waiting could have heard that without doubt, because Mr. Dear spoke very loud—Dear went in to see Mr. Johnson, and I waited in the outer office; I did not go into the inner office—I saw Mr. Dear come out again; I was waiting for him—I think the other parties were waiting in the clerks' office, because they went in afterwards—Dear then went into the clerks' office to arrange something with them; he then went back again into the defendant's office; they were all there together—I was in the little aute-room, and stayed there the whole time till Mr. Dear came out again, and then went away with him—I have discounted bills for Rees & Co.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. I am Mr. Dear's son-in-law—I have gone bail for him, I believe, twice—I always recollect when I am bail for 100l.,—I am perfectly aware that I am on my oath—I have a bad memory—I have never been bail for Mr. Dear but twice, I do not recollect doing so more—I have done bills with Dear, but not many, I don't like them; pawnbroking is a sounder business.
JAMES THOMAS . I am an accountant, and was clerk to the late Mr. Rees at 52, Chancery Lane; he was my employer, and Johnson was there as managing clerk; he employed me—when Rees was well he used to come almost every day, and when he was there if documents had to be signed Johnson signed them—he used to sign them "Thos. Rees & Co."—I was there on 25th February, 1875, when Mr. Josiah Johnson and Mr. Vere called, amongst others—a call-book was kept there for reference, I think, it was in the morning, but am not quite sure in the absence of that book—Mr. Vere asked for Mr. Rees, and Mr. Carter told him that Mr. Rees was not in, but Mr. Johnson was—he was told that Mr. Rees was away ill and had not been there for some time—Vere and Johnson remained and said that
they would see Mr. Johnson—they were shown into a room where Mr. Johnson was, and I" went in too, and heard the greater part of the conversation—the prosecutor told the defendant that Mr. Vere wanted to borrow some money of him, and he wanted to know if he could inform him as to Mr. Vere's means—he had known him four or five years, and he should like to lend him the money—the defendant said that he had 800l. a year paid by his sister, and the prosecutor said that he should like to lend him the money, but he had been drinking so heavily lately—I did not know the exact amount Vere had from his sister, I did not attend to the matter—I knew that some money came for Mr. Vere to the office, I saw it; it was remittances from abroad that came in registered letters by post.
By THE COURT. I have seen them opened, they were addressed to Mr. Rees & Co., under cover—they contained money—I think it was notes—English bank notes.
By MR. TORR. I do not know where they came from—the last time I saw any such letters come with money, was in March or the beginning of April last—I heard in the prosecutor's presence why they ceased, it was because Mr. Vere was engaged to a young lady, and his sister did not approve—the prosecutor was present and the prisoner, too—the prisoner said that Mr. Vere was engaged to be married to a Miss Clifford, and his sister did not approve of it, and for the present the remittances were stopped—the prosecutor said that he had known Vere for five years, and had several heavy betting transactions with him on the turf, and he had always acted honourably as a Straightforward man, and he should like to lend him the money—I think the prosecutor told Vere that he would see his solicitor in the matter, and some undertaking was to be given by Rees & Co.—Vere was to give a letter to Rees & Co., authorizing them to pay the complainant—a letter was given by Vere to the defendant authorizing them to pay the money. (Produced by the prisoner.)—I do not know whether this was produced before the Magistrate—it is dated February 26th, but that is a mistake, it was the 25th—the prosecutor was in the room. (Read: "Thursday morning, February 26th, 1875. Dear Sir, I wish you to hold enongh in hand from my next quarters allowance to pay Mr. J. Johnson, 25, Harrington Square, the amount you have agreed to guarantee the payment of, and any other sum so long as I do not run it too close upon nest quarter, I am awfully sorry about poor Rees, but I don't see that he can do business now, so you will have the bother of my affairs altogether, I will see you in a day or two, yours faithfully, R. Vere. To W. H. Johnson, Esq., 52, Chancery Lane).
By THE COURT. That was written by Vere in Johnson's office in the presence of Johnson.
By MR. TORR. When that letter had been given the prosecutor and Vere went away together leaving that letter—Mr. Apps came to the office late that afternoon and asked for Mr. Rees—the defendant was not with him—he received an answer from Mr. Carter that Mr. Rees was not in, nor Mr. Johnson the managing clerk—he went away and the defendant afterwards returned, and Mr. Carter told him that Mr. Apps had gone—he said that he would go and see Mr. Apps, and went out—he was away about an hour and returned with Mr. Vere and a young lady—next day, the 26th, Mr. Dear who had been written to to attend, came to the office with the two Mr. Hollington's—they were all waiting when he arrived—they then went over to Stone Buildings, and came back again before the defendant—they
remained in one of the rooms, and while they were there and before the defendants return Mr. Torn Hollington returned from Stone Buildings and the defendant returned shortly afterwards, and when he came in Vere shouted out that if that was Johnson he wanted to see him—a person can 'pass from the outside without going into the clerk's room—Carter who was in the outer office, said "That is Mr. Johnson"—he was to and fro, he was by the office door when he spoke—I was in the same room with them and heard what he said—Dear then went in to see Mr. Johnson and stayed some few minutes—when he came out I showed Vere and the prosecutor in—I remained in the room with them—I am in the habit of remaining in the room with clients—I did not remain; I was to and fro—I heard a conversation between Vere and the prosecutor and the defendant; the prosecutor wanted an undertaking from Rees & Co., to guarantee the payment, and he would lend the money, 100l., but that Vere owed him 100l. for bets—Vere then wrote this letter, I saw it written and given into Johnson's hands—after it was written something at the end was altered—the words "To be made "were put in, and then I took it out to Mr. Frazer in the outer office, and a copy was made in the letter book—the defendant asked the complainant if he knew a Mr. David Hope Johnson, as a client of the office had large transactions with him—the complainant said yes, he did know him, and he owed him a large sum of money himself—Mr. Dear was called in, and the prosecutor said that Mr. D. H. Johnson owed him 500l., and he would have taken a fiver for it, but afterwards he paid him all, and he believed that if he had the money he would pay Mr. Dear—Mr. Dear said that he thought of making him a bankrupt—Dear told Mr. Johnson not to take any proceedings at present, in the prosecutor's presence—after it was settled Dear asked the defendant whether they were brothers, whether they were all Johnsons, for there was Johnson, the defendant, and Johnson, the Master of the Exchequer, who had just been taxing the bill against Mr. Vere for 400l., and he said that they were a bad lot—that afternoon a clerk, who I have since ascertained is Mr. Cork, brought a warrant of attorney to the office, Johnson having left with Vere in the meantime and taken the guarantee away with him; I am certain of that—Mr. Cork was shown into Mr. Johnson's room, and I went with him—he said that he wanted that warrant of attorney attested—Vere was not there, only the defendant and Cork and myself—Johnson said that Mr. Rees was away ill, and he was not admitted and he could not attest it—I suggested that they should go over to Mr. Watson, a gentleman who generally takes affidavits, and Cork and the defendant left the office—I saw the warrant of attorney afterwards, and Vere's name was to it—I do not know where or when Vere put his name; it was attested by Mr. Watson—Cork and the defendant came back together, and Vere was in the room when they came back, waiting—Cork gave some money to Vere, I did not see how much; I thought it was a guinea for himself, but I do not know—on the 23rd March Vere and the complainant came to the office; the defendant was there, and I think the complainant said "Vere wants another loan"—I do not remember the defendant's reply—they brought a promissory note ready drawn to Thos. Rees, Esq.—I think it was for 200l—the defendant objected to sign it, because he said that he had no authority to sign that, but he could sign "Rees & Co."—it was taken away, and he said he would see Mr. Apps about it—no other bill was drawn up—the prosecutor said that he would take it to Mr. Apps—in the course of the day Mr. Apps came,
and was shown in to the defendant in the same room as before—no one was with Apps; this was on the 23rd March—I saw Mr. Rees that evening, ho lived about half a dozen doors from me, at Fulham—I made the affidavit produced in order to allow the defendant to appear to the writ on the bill, and after it was made I got leave to appear, and I believe the judgment was set aside, but Mr. Jones attended to that—I told Mr. Rees, but he was very ill, and he only lived a fortnight afterwards—I had a conversation with him about it—I do not believe we took any steps after that to set aside the judgment—the defendant and myself are Mr. Rees' executors—he was solvent at his death.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. I did not make his will; I don't know who did—he did not leave his property to Johnson and myself; I swear that—he left it to my children—we have not proved the will yet—there are 2000l. assets, which are costs in the office due from clients and life policies—I am an accountant and auditor of a public company—I began life at Narberth in Wales that happened to be where Rees used to live—I was a general draper and merchant and hosier and silk mercer—you may call it a general shop—I have never before seen one of these memorial cards published when the defendant said that he was dead—I do not publish memorial cards; I never saw the thing before. (Read; "In memory of the late W. B, Johnson, Editor of the Yorkshire Tribune, who died January 3rd, 1855, aged 21 years and 6 months. He died a sincere and penitent Christian in the sure and certain hope of a joyful resurrection.") That is quite new to me, Perhaps you will be kind enough to say when the card was published?—I went into liquidation at Narberth and paid 20s. in the pound—I do not think I became bankrupt afterwards—I am not an uncertificated bankrupt at this moment to my knowledge—I was not bankruptat Narberth; I was in liquidation—I paid the lot of it, my uncle did—he came forward and I was in the same shop for four years afterwards—I had a debtor's summons served on me once, once in liquidation and once in bankruptcy—I once liquidated and once became bankrupt—it was a partnership debt—I was served with a debtor summons for a partnership debt, that is all I know about it—I do not know whether I became bankrupt, all I know is that I was served with a summons—I was not served with a notice of adjudication—I believe I was examined under George Pearson's bankruptcy—I do not remember being asked "Are you an uncertificated bankrupt?" and my saying "Yes"—that is some time ago—it was not in 1874, I think it was in 1873—I was examined in 1873, I believe; it is about three years ago—I did not become an accountant after I failed at Narberth, I kept on business for four years afterwards, I then sold the business—I did not then become an accountant—I did not practise at Narberth under the name of Rees & Co.—I was a draper there—I will swear that I was not an accountant at Narberth, there is no foundation for saying so—I was in a situation at Narberth. before that, and ten years in business—Rees was a friend of mine, and that is all I know about it—I had several actions at Narberth, but I was not conducting actions—"Phillipps v. Child" was merely the title of an action; it was some claim against some estate—I had nothing to do with it—this letter is in my writing—I do not think it was written to old Mr. Collett, the attorney—I think Johnson was practising under the name of Collett at the time—I think it was written to Mr. Collett himself—that was six months before I knew Johnson—I do not think I had ever seen him at the time I wrote the letter—I had Corresponded
with him six months before, but I had not seen him—I believe I was corresponding with him—he was not practising as Collett & Co., he was practising by himself—I used, to keep Mr. Collett; the letter is addressed to him—it says "4th October, 1872. Dear Sir,—I am in receipt of your favour, for which 1 thank you. I am indeed deeply sorry Mr. J. has so exposed himself."—that is the defeudaut—I do not know in what way he had exposed himself—I do not remember what I was sorry for—I write so many letters I cannot tell you; "And, under the circumstances, must ask you to go to his house and claim all the papers which concernme"—those were papers in some actions I had—"Incases now on hand"—those were my own cases in which I was a plaintiff; I swear that, except Child's case—Among others, are the following: "Merryman v, Kemp;" I was not plaintiff in that—I was not conducting the case, Mr. Collett was; he told me that Johnson had taken the papers to his house—I had instructed Mr. Johnson to bring the action—I was a draper, and used to employ Mr. Collett, I kept him; I paid him liberally—"This is an action in the Exchequer for damages for illegal distress for rent"—I was not practising as Collett & Co., I merely did it to keep Mr. Collett going—"Pawson v. myself, this is an action on a bill of exchange drawn and accepted by Johnson"—Johnson accepted bills for me though I had never seen him—I have many friends of that kind. (The letter, which teas partly illegible through crossing, went on to mention other actions in which he requested the affidavits and papers to be obtained, and continued: " Please take possession of all those papers for me, and also any other papers you may find that concerns me in any way, and we can, if necessary, act together.") That was to Mr. Collett—Mr. Johnson was at that time with Mr. James Russel Miller,. when I wrote that letter—I do not know whether "exposing himself" related to the case of stealing silk at Pawson's—I did not know that he stole silk—I do not know whether Mr. Mascall was charged with anything, I never saw the man; I believe he was charged with stealing silk at Pawson's—Mr. Collett wrote to me—I do not know whether Mascall afterwards got penal servitude; I was not there; I never saw him—Mr. Collett wrote and said that he was arrested—I was not practising with Johnson, who was practising as Miller, and I had not to transfer, it to Collett when Johnson came to grief; I had not seen Collett at the time, nor Miller—I made a special arrangement that if I wanted any writs sent down they should do it.
By THE COURT. I made the arrangement with Miller, Collett, and Haydon—I paid them a sovereign for it, and 10s. 6d. for the judgment; at that time I did not know them at all.
By MR. COLE. I know Burton-upon-Trent—I sold my business at Narberth in 1873—I came up to London lots of times—I believe the first time I saw Johnson was after he got out of Pawson's job—I bought all the goods of Pearson, of Burton-on-Trent for 500l., not before I saw them, I saw them on the same day—I think I completed the purchase before I saw a particle of the goods or the place either—Pearson's name is George; he is the father of the bankrupt—I bought of Rees, he was the intermediary effecting the sale—the agreement before me was done through Johnson & Rees—I gave them a bill of sale on the property for 300l., because I borrowed some money of Rees—I never paid a sixpence on the bill—I will swear I owed him a sixpence at that time for cash advanced—I will swear that he advanced me a sixpence—I can't tell you whether Johnson prepared the
bill of sale—let mo explain this transaction—some time in the summer of 1873, after I bought the business of Pearson—his brother, William Pearson, lived at Grantham; he was also a client of Rees & Co.—I advanced, I think, some 300l. to William Pearson to pay off his creditors; I swear that—the bill of sale I gave to Rees was for his costs and money advanced—the bills are of different dates—I do not know that they were dated the 9th of May, and that the stamps were dated May 14th; I do not remember any thing of the sort; whatever it was, I gave the bills, and before they matured George Pearson was bankrupt and I advanced the money to his brother at Grantham—I accepted the bills in Rees' office and never heard any more about them; I did not pay them because they owed me money—I was examined once in Pearson's bankruptcy—they did not afterwards take possession of the whole of the goods I had bought—I will have no-imputations cast upon my character, Mr. Cole, because I never had anything, to do with transactions I am ashamed of—I disposed of the property which I allege that I bought; Rees & Co. sold it under the bill of sale—I suppose I got the money, that was the end of my business—it was William Pearson at Grantham who I advanced the 300l. to—I got no security whatever—I did not claim the property—I lost that money altogether; it is in the Lincoln County Court now—William Pearson, I think, went into liquidation, and I believe Rees claimed 1,000l. against his estate; I only heard that—I cannot tell whether Rees was then living at a lodging-house at 6d. a night—I cannot tell whether Johnson was examined upon that I know nothing about it—I know I advanced the money to William Pearson—I did not bring Rees up to London, not did I take lodgings for him at Glennies, on my oath—he came down to lodge at Glennies, close to me, but I am quite certain I did not take the lodging for him—I came to London last summer twelve months, and Rees came up in the summer of 1874—I and old Rees did, not come up about up about the sametime—Rees came up in the early part of 1873, three years ago, and I came up about ten months ago—I went certainly to see my friend Johnson along with Rees, and I. believe I introduced him to Rees—Rees was my first employer in London; he brought me up—I became secretary to Campbell & Co., some little while—I cannot tell you whether they were first at 52, Chancery Lane, I was not there at that time—I find "52, Chancery Lane "on this prospectus—they were at 46, Southampton Buildings, when I became secretary—I was the auditor of public companies at that time—this notice "London clients who find it inconvenient to call during office horn's may make a previous appointment at 95, Camden Road, London," was before my time—that was where Johnson lived—"Campbell & Co." was a limited company—this prospectus was issued by me as secretary—Mr. William Dear, of Knightsbridge, is one of our directors—I believe his name is there, but we never did any business—I have seen him there once or twice—he called to see me privately, but that office has been closed—I was one of the original registered subscribers for five shares—James Rickaby used to live in Surrey Square, he is not a bum bailiff—he was an auctioneer at that time—I do not know whether he was a creditor under Pearson's bankruptcy—I do not know whether "Wm. H. Johnson, of 95, Camden Road, fifty shares," was the principal proprietor, I was at Narberth—I believe Johnson came down to Narberth, and that was the first time I saw him—I signed that thing at Narberth—this is one of our advertisements "Have you a lawyer? Chancery, common law, probate, divorce, and bankruptcy cases instituted or defended through
Campbell's law agency at a nominal cost, &c, 46, Southampton Buildings, Holborn." That was before I came to London, I recognise it as being the same company, though I do not know anything about the advertisement—when I first came to London, I used to go to and fro to Chancery Lane, and to Campbell & Co.—the one is two or three minutes walk from the other—52, Chancery Lane, is at the corner of Southampton Buildings, about three doors from Holborn—I was not secretary when a distress was put in last Michaelmas, I have dropped it; I have not been there for months—a distress was put in for rent—I used to go to and fro—I replevied, on the ground that we had not notice of the change of proprietorship, change of landlord, and 7l. was paid—of course the rent was due—I abandoned the replevy and offered 10l—a quarters rent was due 15l.—Iabandoned the case, and since that I have gone to the landlord and offered him 10l.—I went to him last night and offered him 10l.—Mr. Dear is down as a shareholder in Campbell & Co.—I did not know him till I came to London—I was not connected with the Llanthony, Oxide, Copper, and Lead Mining Company, James Rickaby, secretary; I know nothing about it—I made an affidavit in Johnson v. Rees—no one instructed me to interfere in that matter—it could not have been used unless it was sworn—I swore that the defendant had been "for two months unable to leave his house from a severe and dangerous illness"—I did not come here to-day to say that Johnson acted by Rees' authority—I came to say what I know, what the transaction was—Johnson had general authority to sign all documents—I do not know that he had authority to sign notes, but he had general authority to sign everything in the office—I cannot say whether he had authority to sign notes—he used to sign almost everything when Rees was away, but I do not know about notes—I cannot tell you whether he had authority to sign notes—I believe I saw him sign the note—when I said The defendant did not concur in it at the time the said note was made"—I meant that it was done without his knowledge: I wanted to get leave to appear.
Q. So you swore that though you had seen Johnson sign it, he had no authority to sign it?-A. I supposed that Rees did not concur in the bill, and that was quite true; I knew it was all for betting transactions, and I wanted to defend the action; I was interested in Rees' life, and I knew he would not live much longer, and he only lived nine days; I was willing to pay the amount, and I have offered the amount that is legally due; Jones advised me that the defendant had a good defence on the merit' he is a clerk in the office, I had only just discovered that there was substituted service—I asked Jones what was the best thing to do in the matter, he knew more about the legal part of it than I did—I swear that it was for betting transactions, Johnson said so himself; he said that 100l. of it was for bets in the February affair—he added that there was 100l. for interest.
Rc-examined. The prosecution withdrew the case against Johnson, in Pawson's affair.
By MR. COLE. I was present—I came to London and saw that gentleman there—Mr. Collett wrote to me, and when the case came on I came to London.
FREDERICK JONES . About the middle of April 1875, I was engaged as managing common law clerk, at 52, Chancery Lane—I was there up to the time of Mr. Rees' death—he was very ill at times and not there, bu I frequently saw him there—I should be there on 24th April—I remember
Vere calling—I think it was on 26th April—he was alone—he did not see the defendant—I handed him a letter in consequence of what Johnson said; I enclosed a bill of exchange in it, and I think this produced is the bill—it is for 150l., dated 26th April, it is marked "B"—I did not see the prosecutor on that date—I don't know what became of Vere afterwards—I copied the letter and enclosed the bill—I had the management of the action Johnson v. Rees for 260l.—there was an order to set aside the judgment—Mr. Rees came to my desk and saw the order to set aside the judgment, and he was very angry with me, and swore at me, and said "How dare you take such a liberty?"—I said that my instructions were to apply to set aside the judgment, he said that I was to give notice to the other side, that the order was to be obtained, and that Vere must pay the money for it.
Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. I do not know who prepared the affidavit, but Thomas swore it—I did not intrust him or advise him to prepare it, nor do I know who did—Rees was not there when it was sworn, he was ill at the time and he did not see it—Thomas was a clerk in the office, and was so prior to my going there in the middle of April 1875—I was not there at the time that Campbell & Co., was carried on at 52, Chancery Lane—I know something about Campbell & Co.—I have been to the office about half a dozen times—Thomas was not the managing man there—I do not know who was—I believe Thomas was the secretary—I do not know that he was the manager or whether he used to attend there—I was a clerk in the same office with him, and I believe he was in the habit of attending at Southampton Buildings daily, I have no doubt he did—I can not say whether did so in March and April, it was about the middle of April when I went there—I know that he was the secretary of Campbell's Law Agency—I have also seen a clerk there when I went there—I do not know his name—I know that the defendant lived at Camden Town—I do not know that he was part and parcel of Campbell & Co., this is the first time I have have heard of it, but Mr. Rees was solicitor for Campbell & Co.—this is the first time I have heard of Johnson being connected with Campbell & Co.—I have seen Dear at our office, but not at 46, Southampton Buildings—Mr. Rees engaged me, I have known him some time, and before I knew Johnson, Rees paid my salary, but not always, Mr. Johnson paid me as a rule—it was 2l. a week—I said 100l. a year before the Magistrate—it was paid weekly—I am now in Mr. Hope's employ—it is Rees, Hope & Co.—Rees is dead, that has nothing to do with me—I believe the executors of the firm Thomas and Johnson advertised the business for sale, and Mr. Hope bought it—they did not introduce me to Hope—I saw Hope at the office, and he said "We shall keep on the same clerks Mr. Jones, you will continue on the same terms as you had with—Mr. Rees"—Johnson continued to perform the same duties as ho did in Mr. Rees life-time—I have heard that Johnson paid the rent—I never heard of a distress being put in last quarter or of an execution, and I have been there every day—Mr. Hope lives at Sunderland, and carries on the business of an attorney—I have seen him several times, the first time was when he engaged me early in October or the beginning of November, and I saw him a week or two after I won't be positive and I saw him again two or three days ago—I do not think I have seen him on more than half-a-dozen occasions—I was at the office, he only came up once or twice, but he stopped two or three days—I knew Rees very
well, and he knew me very well—I do not believe a word about his living at Sandy's coffee house at 6d. a night—I do not believe he ever went into such a place, he was too much of a gentleman—I know Sandy's—I never fetched Rees from there—Mr. Rees was on tae Council of the Incorporated Law Society, and I do not believe he would have gone to such a place unless he was drunk—I have seen him drunk but not in business hours—after the office was closed he would ask mo to have a glass of sherry—I never visited him at Fulham, I know that he lived at Paxton House there—that does not belong to a gardener named Glennie—I was employed by Lynch as clerk, he said that he could dispense with my services—he is a solicitor—he discharged me because at that time he took an articled clerk—he never charged me with embezzlement, so help me God—I did not live with Mr. Willicomb, I worked for him—he never charged me with embezzlement—I saw him at Bow Street—these questions were put to me there (Mr. Willicomb was called in)—I mean to say in his presence that he never charged me with appropriating his money, so help me God, and he cannot say so; this is the first time I have heard of it, except at the police-court—he did not charge me with stealing a bag—he wanted to know what had become of his office bag—I said that I had lent it at to a client, and said "You will find it 52, Chan cery Lane, Carter has got it"—when I offered to pay for the bag he did not say that he would have nothing to do with me for he meant to prosecute me, nothing of the kind—I sent him a post-office order for the value of it while these proceedings were going on, the day before my examination. (A letter was here put in from Mr. Willicomb to the witness declining to compromise the matter, and returning his post-office order:)—that is rubbish—I did receive that letter, and I have his letter here; it was not the conduct of a gentleman—I heard that he had not got the bag, and I sent him a post-office order for the value of it—there was a case of the name of Lamb—I don't remember Lamb and Swinford—this is my petty cash book (produced)—Ifind in it 4s. 6d. paid by me for an attachment—it never to my knowledge turned out that it was not paid by me—I handed it to a clerk named Jelk to pay it—Mr. Willicomb did not charge me with retaining that 4s. 6d.; he wrote to me on 29th April, and never said a word about it—this letter to Mr. Willicomb is my writing. (This stated: "I am truly sorry through my fault, you have been put to such inconvenience by not having your bag, I very much regret not telling you that the person to whom I had really lent it was a clerk out of employment, and whose address from seeing him daily at the Judges Chambers, it never occurred to me make myself acquainted, for that reason I allowed Mr. Carter to accept the blame for a day or two")—I had told Carter to leave the bag at Rees & Co.'s, and I said "Has the bag been left here?"—he said "No," I said Mr. Willicomb is rather annoyed about it, come up and let me know when it is left"—I allowed Carter to bear the blame for a day or two—I saw Jelf afterwards, and I wrote to Mr. Willicomb and sent him a post-office order—he did not discharge me, I gave him notice, a weeks notice, and he knows it—I did not leave in the middle of the week, you are wrongly instructed—Mr. Willicomb can not get in the box and say that—he did not discharge me and make me leave his place of business in the middle of the week, so help me God—I did not leave in the middle of the week, he knows better—he did not send me away on a Monday morning—I left on a Saturday, and he knows it, and in twelve months nothing has been said to me about it, or I could have gone and explained—I now swear in his presence
that I did not leave his office on a Monday morning—I am still in Rees. Hope & Co.'s employment—I received my last salary last Saturday; Mr. Johnson paid me—I took part in preparing the brief for his defence, Mr. Hope is the solicitor who is defending him and instructing counsel for him, and whose name is on the briefs—they were prepared at 52, Chancery Lane—I have had daily and nightly interviews with the defendant—I was in the house the other night—I dare say Thomas took a part in it, and Carter too.
Re-examined. I was not articled clerk to the late Mr. Rees—my father is a solicitor practising in the Temple—I don't think I advised Thomas that there was a defence to the action on the bill, Mr. Rees was ill at the time, and we did not want to bother him about it—I do not believe there is a word of truth about Mr. Rees being a lodger at Sandy's—we were concerned for Sandy's—he is a man who has been convicted once or twice, and we got him a verdict of 50l., there was an attachment to the amount of 34l., and the balance was for him—I think I have seen George Harper once—I never went to Rees at Paxton House, Fulham. but I have addressed letters there—Mr. Lynch never charged me with embezzlement—I first heard at Bow Street, of any charge Mr. Willicomb had to make against me, and he had known my address all the while—that was in the examination of this very case which we are dealing with to-day, and yet this took place prior to April 1875, because here is the letter in which he never mentions it—I got a letter subsequently from him, dated 11th January, 1876, in which he does not say a word about my having committed this offence—I saw him afterwards at the police-office-, and he made the charge—as to the bag, I was very ill, and I asked a clerk out of employment to assist me while I went home to rest, that clerk had the bag, and I asked him to leave it in Chancery Lane, with Mr. Carter, at Rees & Co.'s, and Mr. Willicomb asked me for the bag; I said "It is with Mr. Carter"—I had seen Carter the next day, and asked him if the bag had been left, he said "No"—I said "Willicomb is very much annoyed, when it comes bring it to the office"—it was an ordinary 10s. 6d. bag—I bought it with Willicomb's money, and it was used in the business—I required somebody else to use it, because he was assisting me when I was very unwell, and he used to go out for me while I went home to rest—that was while I was doing Willicoinb's business—I think his letter shows clearly that I had explained all that to him—I saw Jelf about 9th January, and I said "Did you ever return that bag to Willicomb's—he said "The fact is, I did not"—and I directly sent a post-office order to Mr. Willicomb for 11s. 6d., and he returned it.
MR. COLE. You may go back to Middlesborough, Mr. Hope.
The Jury, in reply to questions from the Court, stated that they disbelieved the evidence of Jones, Hollings, Thomas, and Carter, and the greater portion, of Dear's evidence. Mr. Cole stated that the prisoner began life as an omnibus driver, that he had been an infidel lecturer and editor, and the promoter of eight or nine bubble companies— Five Years Imprisonment on the Second Count, and Five Years' more on the Third Count, the second sentence to commence at the expiration of the first ,
OLD COURT.—Saturday, February 5th, 1876.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. M. WILLIAMS and MR. W. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution; and MR. STRAIGHT and MR. J. P. GRAIN the Defence.
ROBERT ABBOTT . I am one of the firm of Corke, Abbott, & Co., 44 and 45, Fore Street, shirt collar, wristband, and front manufacturers—we missed property some time before January—a communication was made to us in December about a boy named Grant who we had, in consequence of which we had our premises searched in January, and a sack containing 123 dozen collars and three and a half pieces of linen was found on the private staircase, where it had no right to be—we were unable to trace it further, and discharged Grant—Goods are never sold on our premises in an undressed state—on the 17th January Mr. Westaby, a collar dresser, communicated with me at the police-station, I having put the matter into the hands of the police on the 13th—Westerby produced these half a dozen pairs of Marlborough wristbands and two dozen Stanley collars marked "P.S.H. Stanley to pattern 15,"which means the size; "P.S.H." denotes the firm for whom they were made—it is Edwards' duty to cut these collars—this pencil mark is his writing—every dozen we make is marked—there is also a mark on the wristbands—the collars were dressed; they were given to me as a sample only of what Westaby had received—in consequence of what Westaby said I saw Mr. Chilton—Westaby produced this document to me. (Read: "Memorandum. London Warehouse Company, Limited, to Mr. Westaby. Sir,—Please dress the collars, &c., you have for us, and let me know when they are ready. R. J. Chilton. Jan. 11, 1876." Jennings communicated with us, I think, on the 17th January, and produced these two invoices: "Dec. 23rd, 1874. Mr. Jennings. Bought of W. Garnham, draper, &c., 41 dozen collars at 3s., 7l. 3s. 6d." "Dec. 28,1875. Mr. Jennings. Bought of W. Garnham 36 dozen linen fronts at 5s. 6d., 9l. 18s." Jennings showed me the goods, and they were mine; he produced the lot—I identify them, they are partly dressed and partly undressed—none of Jennings' goods passed through Westaby's hands—I recovered from Westaby 132 dozen of Stanley collars and 38 dozen of Marlborough wristbands, of which 96 dozen collars were undressed and 38 dozen wristbands were dressed—I recovered from Jennings altogether 72 dozen and five collars and fronts, some dressed and some undressed—I then went with Jennings and three detectives to Garnham's house, Hoxton Street, Hoxton—Jennings went in first and asked for Mr. Garnham, as he did not observe him in the back of the shop—the man pointed him out to us and said "That is Mr. Garnham. Mr. Garnham, this is the gentleman belonging to the firm I spoke to you about"—Garnham asked me to go into the back room, which I did, and said "My name is Abbott, of the firm of Corke, Abbott, & Co.; I have come about some collars and fronts which you have sold to Jennings; have you any more of them?" he said that he had heard from Jennings about them the day previous, he said "I only bought these seventy-seven dozen, which I sold all to Jennings—I have no more"—I said, "Can I look over your warehouse?"he said "You see how I was occupied when you came in, leave it until 2 o'clock, I will then come down to your warehouse" I
told him I could not do that—before that I asked him where he got them from, he said "I bought them of a man whom I know, but I cannot now recollect his name"—I asked him if he could find an invoice, he looked over a file, and said "I cannot find it"—I then said "Will you come with me now?" he said "No, I cannot, I am too busy "I said "I can't leave you"; he said "Do the police know anything of this, for God's sake do not put it into their hands" I said "They do know something about it" he said "For mercy's sake do not put it into their hands, I am a man with a family of seven children, I will come down to you at 2 o'clock, and will make up your loss "I said "What loss? with you at present it is seventyseven dozen, but we have lost considerably over 200l."—he made no answer, and Brett almost immediately came in—the prisoner said that he had sold all he bought to Jennings, and after the police searched the premises, he said "I have bought back three dozen collars of Jennings "he called his shopman, and told him to fetch them—he was taken away in custody, and I went to Moor Lane station, and saw him there—a portion of the property I had seen in Westaby's possession, was brought in, and I identified it—Chilton came to the station, and said in the prisoner's presence that he bought of him the goods he had sold to Westaby—the prisoner made no answer that I heard—he said when the police entered his shop, that he bought the goods of Price and Chapman; and he believed it was Mr. Price, of Glover's Hall Court—we stopped there over two hours, and he searched his invoices twice or thrice over—these Marlborough. wristbands were on our premises on 5th January, they were not button-holed on the 3rd, the size and the cut correspond with thirty-nine dozen which I lost—the Stanley collars were also on our premises on 5th January; I believe about twenty-dozen were looked out specially.
Cross-examined. I had the information from Jennings on Monday evening the 17th, and went to the prisoner's premises on Tuesday the 18th—it is a general drapery shop, very fully stocked, with counters on each side—I saw two ladies serving in the shop, and also a young man—I saw one customer there—detectives Brett, Broom, and Butteridge were outside—Tenningb was present during the whole conversation—Stanley collars are common enough by name—there is only a peneil mark on one collar in every dozen, it is to show the particular firm they are cut for—I find in a large number of the undraped collars the letters in pencil—"Marlborough" is the name of the shape of the wristbands—the name may be common—they are not registered in that name.
JAMES WESTABY . I am a collar dresser, of 59, Red Cross Street—on 17th January I went to Moor Lane Station and met Mr. Corke—I produced a sample of certain undressed collars and cuffs which were brought to me in a sack with "D. R. & Co." on it in red letters, by a young man; and two or three days afterwards. I received this memorandum, after which I dressed thirty-six dozen of them—in consequence of certain enquiries I produced a sample of them to Mr. Corke who identified them as being stolen from him—when I received the goods in the sack I did not know where they came from—I had not had any transactions with the London Wood Street Warehouse Company for some years—the message was "They are from the Wood Street Warehouse Company, but do not touch them till you hear from them"—I did not do anything to them till I received the memorandum.
Cross-examined. I have known Charton some time in the trade,
but did not know with what establishment he was connected—the words "Stanley and Marlborough "would not disappear in the dressing, but the pencil marks would—I saw the young man bring the sack, and he told me they were for the Wood Street Warehouse Company—there was nothing very striking in the sack or in putting collars into it—there was "D. R." on it—there is a well-known firm of warehousemen, Devas, Rout-ledge & Co., they sell goods of this description.
ARTHUR THOMAS CHILTON . I live at Camden Town—in, January, I was a buyer in the service of the London Warehouse Company—I have known the prisoner for a number of years, he is a draper of Hoxton Street—he has been in the habit of buying largely of the London Warehouse Company; but he has not sold to them till lately; I had one transaction with him before this of about 130 dozen gentlemen's scarves—that was early in January, shortly before this—I called on him at his shop on business two or three days previous to my sending this memorandum, and he offered me these goods which were on the floor of the little back shop—there is a doorway between, and it is up a step or two, it is stowed with goods—I said "What is the price," there were I suppose 110 or 120 dozen collars; I did not count them and he did not tell me, and about twenty dozen wristbands I guessed—he asked me 3s. for the collars, and 6s. 6d. for the cuffs which I agreed to give him—I made no memorandum of the transaction, I trusted to my memory—I said "Send them to Mr. Westaby, in Red Cross Street, to be dressed"—I did not know the number, but he is as well-known in Red Cross Street, as you are in this Court—he had dressed collars for me before for my private use, instead of sending them to the washerwoman—he had not dressed collars for the company before—the goods were those which Mr. Abbott identifies—the memorandum is "January 11, 1876. Mr. Westaby. Sir,—Please dress the collars you have for us, and let me know when they are ready. "I underlined" me "that he might communicate personally with me and not with the company, because I was the buyer—I did not enter the transaction in any of the books of the company—I did not hear any more about the property till the 18th—I had not received any document whatever from the prisoner—it is unusual to buy collars by the dozen in an undressed state, but it is sometimes done; I might have a job lot—I never bought any undressed before—the invoice would be sent to the firm not to me—I should not receive any communication from Westaby.
Cross-examined. There is no transaction in which I was engaged in. which Westaby has acted for the company—1 have been with the company a year or eighteen months, and before that I was with Adams & Co.—these goods made a large heap on the floor of the back shop—there was no concealment, whoever went into the shop could see them—1 knew the prisoner carrying on this business prior to my going to Wood Street—I did a large business with him at Messrs. Adams & Co.—I have done business with him for the company to the amount of 300l. or 400l. a month, and for the other people sometimes 100l. or more a month, they were in a class of business Mr. Garnham would not sell so much in, being only haberdashers—the same course was pursued with him as to the neckties, but they did not want dressing and did not go to Westaby—no invoice would be sent to me, it would go direct to the firm—all goods sent through Westaby would have to appear in the company's books—they would have to be delivered and received and signed for by a porter and the invoice entered, and the goods sent up into my department and the person would be credited in the
invoice book where his name would appear—collars are put into boxes, and I wrote "Let me know"—that I might know how many boxes would be required, and also for the sizes of the boxes I had to take the measurement—as buyer considerable latitude is allowed me; I have to make the department pay and show a certain profit—in my judgment 3s. for collars, and 6s. 6d. for cuffs was a fair price—I picked up one or two collars in the shop, and saw the kind of thing they were—as to my not checking the number only what were delivered would be paid for.
Re-examined. I did not know how many collars I had bought, and wanted information on account of knowing the number of boxes—I left the employ of the company on the day Mr. Corke and Mr. Sherman called and. previous to their calling, but that had nothing to do with the transaction.
By THE JURY. I receive an invoice when they are delivered—an. Invoioe sent to the firm would be passed to me as buyer, but it would go through the receiving dock—I should say the invoice would come with the goods.
JOHN FRANCIS JENNINGS . I am a commercial traveller, of 20, Upper John Street, Hoxton—on 23rd January I was passing the prisoner's shop and went in; he took me to an upstairs sitting-room and showed me some goods, and I bought 41 dozen collars at 3s. 6d. and 36 dozen fronts at 5s. 6d., coming to 9l. 18s.—they were undressed—I was to pay for them when I could, and I have paid 4l. 12l.—I never had any receipt—I had bought goods of the prisoner many times before, but I generally paid for them—in consequence of what I heard I called on Corke, Abbot, and Co. on the 17th January, and showed them a sample of the property—I never bought collars, cuffs, or fronts of the prisoner before, or any goods in an undressed state—he asked me to buy all he showed me,—which I did—there was no discount.
Cross-examined. I have known the prisoner about ten years, and have dealt with him on former occasions—I travel for myself, not for any firm—I sell among small shops.
THOMAS. PRICE . I reside at 33 Saint John's Square Clerkenwell—I am a bonnet shape maker—I formerly carried on business at No. 6, Glover's Hall Court, City—I left the latter end of November last and took my business to Saint John's Square Clerkenwell—I have known the prisoner seven or eight years—I have had business transactions with him; not with such goods as these—they have generally been velvet hats or shapes—the last transaction was fifteen or eighteen months, ago—no other person was carrying on business in my name at the time I was there—I was there six years and a half—during that time I never knew or heard of a person named Chapman nor any firm of the name of Price & Chapman—I do not think such business could be carried on without my knowing it.
FREDERICK CHARLES BRETT (City Detective). I was instructed by the prosecutor at the beginning of this year to make certain enquiries about some lost property—in conjunction with others I did so—I remember subsequently Westaby coming to the police-station—I saw him—he produced this sample of goods—Mr. Corke was present and identified them as his—I subsequently saw Chilton as to the goods—I also saw Jennings on the morning of the 18th—he came to Messrs. Abbott's place—he produced a quantity of goods—they were identified by the prosecutor as property stolen from him—I went down with the prosecutor and Jennings to the prisoner's place of business at Hoxton—I waited outside sometime and-then I went in—I went up some steps through the shop into a back room—I
was alone at that time—I was the first to enter that—after that, Mr. Abbott went out and fetched Brown & Butterfield—I asked the prisoner to account for the possession of these goods (producing two invoices) which he had sold to Jennings which has been identified as the property of Corke & Abbott in the City—he said he had sold them to Jennings, and Jennings had returned him three dozen done up—I then asked him who he bought them of—he said of a man of the name of Price or Chapman—he thought it was Chapman that he did live in Glovers Hall Court Barbican but he had left there—I asked him if he knew where he had lived, he said somewhere near Victoria Park but did not know where—I asked him for the invoice of the goods, he said he believed he had got it somewhere—I asked him to look for it as we had plenty of time and could wait—he did look through his bill file but did not find it—he said he had paid 3s. for the collars and is and 6d. for the fronts—I searched part of the premises, the other officers principally did that—there was a great quantity of stock there, consisting of velveteen, silks, satins, ribbons, tea, and sugar,—the value of the property altogether was about 1500l—I accompanied Chilton to Westaby's when he indentified the goods as those purchased by him of the prisoner—I took the prisoner to the station and ho was the next day brought before the Alderman at the Guildhall—represented by a solicitor—and remanded for a week—he was then represented by counsel and remanded again—I think it was for a week—I was present on all occasions and no invoices were produced on either—I have made enquiries at Glovers Hall Court for Price & Chapman. but never found them.
Cross-examined. The expression he made use of was he believed it was Price—as to the invoices he said he believed he had them somewhere—at one time all wo three detectives were in this back room—we were there at the time he said that about the invoices—Mr. Garnham was in the front shop and the man was there.
CHARLES BROWN (Detective Officer). I also had charge of making enquiries into this case—I was at the Moor Lane station with the prisoner when a sample of goods received from Westaby was brought—they were shown to the prisoner by Inspector Hugh; they consisted of two dozen collars and half-a-dozen cuffs—the Magistrate asked if he knew anything of those and the prisoner answered "I know nothing about them, I never had them."
MR. CHILTON (re-examined). The scarves I bought passed into the stock into the department in the usual way and were sold.
The following Witnesses were called for the Defence.
WILLIAM BERRY . I am a partner in the firm of Devas, Routledge & Co., 20, Cannon-street—I have known Garnham for many years by our books in the counting-house—I cannot speak to the description of goods he buys in the warehouse—I have merely to sign the invoices on their being presented to me—he has had very fair dealings indeed for some years past—I could not swear whether this (produced) is one of our bags—on our cases we have this mark, D. R. & Co.
SAMUEL HENRY CHRISTMAS . I am a buyer in the employ of the Fore Street Company—I have known the prisoner nearly three years—I have from time to time sold him job lots—my first transaction was a job lot, such as fancy wool, ties, and things we wanted to clear out—they would be sold at a lower price than the regular price—he continually had goods, sometimes I would serve him and sometimes somebody else.
Sons, of Fore Street, straw hat and bonnet manufacturers, and of furs—I have known the prisoner for six or seven years—on behalf of my employers I and other persons of the firm have had very considerable dealings with him—the firm sold him some furs at the beginning of January at a considerable reduction—I have had transactions with him as late as last month.
GEORGE CALLOW . I am buyer in the employ of Messrs. Allsney & Co.—I have had transactions with the prisoner—I have sold him job lots, among other things some boys belts—I have sold him things under the market price.
FELIX WHITTOW . The ledger department at Messrs. Cook, Son & Co., warehousemen, St. Paul's Churchyard, is under my supervision, and I am cognisant with it—for about ten years the prisoner has had dealing with us—to give you an idea of the transactions, ho has owed us as much as 500l. or 600l. at a time.
MR. SIMES. I am a wholesale perfumer and fancy goods manufacturer—I have sold the prisoner goods; I have frequently sold him job lots.
WILLIAM BARTHOLOMEW . I am silk buyer for the firm of Rotherham & Co.—I have known the prisoner for Borne years—I have had large dealings with him on behalf of the firm—they were always job lots, and sold usually at a reduction.
CLEMENT STURGIS . I am salesman in the hosiery department of Messrs, Rylands & Co.—I have known the prisoner for several years dealing in principally old stock at greatly under price—I was also in the employ of the Fore Street Warehouse Company, and used to call upon the prisoner to show him goods—to see if he was a buyer of any job lots—he bought a considerable quantity.
MARTHA ATWOOD . I was in the employ of the prisoner as domestic servant—it is the custom in reference to the dirty clothes and linen to turn them out on the Monday morning—Mrs. Garnham counts them—I remem-a purse being found in a pocket of a pair of trousers in the course of this operation last Monday morning—Mrs. Garnham found it—This (produced) is the purse—she opened it in the room, but I did not see what was in it—I have seen the purse in the possession of Mr. Garnham—I have seen him wear the trousers.
MR. BLACEBOW. I am assistant to Mr. Garnham, and have been in his employ for seven years—he carried on a general business—there was a room at the back of the shop—a continuation of the shop—I remember the police coming there, and taking Mr. Garnham into custody—I have on several occasions seen Mr. Chilton there—and on hundreds of occasions seen Mr. Jennings—I was not present on the occasion of a transaction between the prisoner and Mr. Jennings in December in respect to some collars—I remember a transaction later on—these collars and cuffs were in the back room—a continuation of the shop—I was in the shop the whole of the time during the purchase of those collars and cuffs—as far as my memory goes, it took place on the Tuesday or Wednesday in the first week of last month—the 4th or 5th between 11 and 12 o'clock several customers were
present—I was attending to them behind the counter—the purchase of these cuffs and collars took place in the shop itself—it was about 10 o'clock when the gentleman came with the samples—I always understood his name to be Price—he asked Mr. Garnham so much for them, but he told him he could not give him so much by 3d. a dozen as he bought them for on a former occasion—the man said he could not take the price Mr. Garn-ham offered him—I was attending to the customers, and did not hear the whole of the conversation, but after a little bit of quibbling, I suppase they agreed to take the price—Mr. Garnham and Mr. Price went out, I believe to adjourn to the next door a public-house—Mr. Garnham was absent about five minutes, and Mr. Price returned in about an hour and a half—11.30—with the collars and cuffs—he brought them in two baskets—I had occasion to go to the back warehouse for some reserved stock for the shop, and when I came in they were throwing them on to the floor from the basket—last Monday morning I saw that purse (produced)—it was shown to me by Mrs. Garnham a little after 1 o'clock—she opened it in my presence, and was very much excited at the time—her husband had then been in custody somewhere about ten days—he was taken on the 18th of last month—there are seven children—part of the contents of the purse she showed to me—these two receipts were in the purse (examining). This piece of paper was in it—It was marked lizard & Co., Agents and Importers, 35, John Street, St. John's Wood.
Cross-examined. I was not called as a witness before the Magistrate, but I was at the Court—I knew previous to that time this story of a man coming and selling the goods—I was only present at the Court on one occasion—the servant was not in my presence when these invoices were found in the purse; it took place in the shop, what I saw—I saw it afterwards—my master carries on a very extensive business; he keeps a file, upon which invoices of wholesale transactions are put occasionally—the file only relates to City houses—the transactions that take place with houses that are not City houses are not always filed—these (produced) look as if they had been on the file—I have seen Price on several occasions; he has brought goods, dressed fronts and collars—my master has not dealt pretty largely with him, only a few at a time—Price has been in the habit of coming for three or four months, maybe a little longer—this transaction was an exceptional one, large—I have not the slightest idea whose handwriting this document is—I see "Izzard & Co., agents and importers," is, printed, but the first address is written—the first name is scratched out; there is a blot over the "E. Izzard & Co."—that was in the same state when I saw it as it is now, as far as I believe—my master buys all sorts of goods, sometimes chests of tea, and I sell outside at the stall—he also buys teapots, and sugar and any mortal thing—he has bought carcasses of sheep, anything that's cheap—we have a few shawls on the establishment—I have known him buy undressed collars; it is a common thing—he bought 14 1/2 cwt. of linen cellars and cuffs undressed and unfinished at a salvage of Blenkiron's fire—Mr. Jennings had 100 dozen fronts not at all damaged of Mr. Garnham—I have seen Jennings on several occasions—I was not there when he bought these goods—he has had some hundreds of transactions with my employer, not always cash; paid by instalments on several occasions—Mr. Garnham would introduce things to him and say "You can pay when you like"—I believe he has always kept his payments up—the first
lot of goods of Mr. Price's came on to the premises on the 18th December I was out at the stall, because it happened to be a Saturday; I did not see Price come—I know all that arrived that day from the invoice—I never saw the goods myself—the last time I saw Price was on the 4th or 5th of January—I have never seen him since this transaction—he used to call about once a fortnight, sometimes longer than that—my master always paid cash, I think—(looking at Mr. Price) that is not the gentleman at Glover's Hall Court.
Re-examined. There was a person Mr. Garnham always addressed as Mr. Price—as far as I know the things that I saw bought were bought openly in the shop—Mr. Abbott and the officers took a dozen cuffs away that we had for two years—I know that the prisoner was in custody, from the time he was taken until the last examination before the Magistrate, and that he was committed just before the Sessions to this Court in order to have his trial at once—I did not take the collars down to Westaby's.
WILLIAM NEWTON . I am a butcher, of 168, High Street, Hoxton—the prisoner has been in the habit of dealing with me for some, time past—I" went into his shop on Tuesday, 4th, to get an order for a leg of mutton; I saw some person in conversation with him—I saw a basket on the right and a smaller one on the left; as I walked to the back I saw some boxes of sample collars—I saw some silver on the counter; I also saw a man sitting there—I took the leg of mutton to the prisoner, had my money, 6s. 4d., and left the man there.
Witnesses in reply
SAMUEL JOHN CORKE, JUN . I am son of Mr. Corke, one of the firm of the prosecutors—I have seen all the property produced by Westaby—the last portion of it came in on Tuesday night, on the 4th January, between 5 and 6 o'clock, from outdoors, for the button-holing—then the quantity was not complete; there were two dozen to make it so, and I had a row with one of the young girls—I knew it was part of the property found at Westaby's because I took it in myself—it was Marlborough cuffs; about ten dozen came in on the Tuesday; the rest, about thirty dozen, came in on the Monday—I know them by the price given out at, and I am positive they are Marlborough wristbands, and W.R.F. Glasgow—they were made for a particular firm, and they have the letters of that firm upon them—I am able to swear positively upon that, that they were at our premises on the 4th—I am positive about the rest of the property because you will find P.S.H. on a part of the collars—I cannot say whether those goods were ever made or in existence upon the 18th December; the portion upon the 4th January I am positive of—they were given out to button-hole on the 1st.
Cross-examined. I am a warehouseman—there are about 300 to 400 people employed—our business consists of nothing but cuff, collar, and front making—the Marlborough wristband is not a common one; it is. Not known all over the trade; you could not go into half a dozen shops in London and buy it—the Stanley collar is not a common one—when we receive orders to execute I take them upstairs and enter them into a book in the cutter's room—it is at home now—W.R.F. is a firm in Glasgow; their names are W. R. Finlay & Co.; they have dealt with us a number of years—they are large warehousemen—we supply them with a large number of cuffs and collars in a dressed state—I cannot say without reference how long before this order we had had one—we do not make these Stanley collars cheaper than anyone else, other people have the same privilege—to the best
of my belief we have made Marlborough cuffs three years, Stanley collars three months—we make the Marlboroughs for one house and the collars for another; P.H.S. one and W.R.F. another—cuffs and collars might have the same name—that particular Marlborough cuff cannot be bought all over the the trade at the same price—we had some goods come in on the Monday—I have a book to refer to, but not here; my word is enough—I did not see the cuffs at Westaby's, I saw them at the police-station—the stitching is done by a machine—I can tell who stitched them by the number.
Re-examined. The wristbands are made in dozens, not half-dozens—on each dozen there is a mark—were they separated there would be a mark on each half-dozen—the particular shape of the wristband is not uncommon to the trade—on this dozen (examining) there is No. 48 very indistinct.
ROBERT ABBOTT (re-examined). There were thirty-six dozen Marlborough cuffs recovered from Westaby's—I made the list out on the 3rd January; there were thirty-nine dozen short, which were being button holed—we had an order for 100 dozen in 1875 for W. R. Finlay & Co., of Glasgow—I sup-plied twenty-four dozen, and they were delivered "dressed "in 1875—on the 3rd January there were thirty-nine dozen short; the thirty-nine dozen were down on the 5th January—I did not see them—they had not to my knowledge been delivered—on the 13th I missed those wristbands when searching the stock, when the boy Grant was discharged.
Cross-examined. On the 13th I knew all that I know now—the prisoner was charged before the Magistrate on the 18th—I did not then know all that I know now—I did not know that the thirty-nine dozen had not come down on the 4th—I don't recollect being asked by Mr. Gain before the Magistrate, to fix the times I missed the things—my hours at the premises are from 10 to 6 o'clock—as a rule nothing is brought down until the morning from the cutting-room—the work is taken in at night, counted over, checked, and brought down the following day—I cannot tell at what hour the things would be finished—the things are done at their own homes—they would be delivered to the forewoman in the morning—she keep a book—it it is not here.
JOHN CORKE, SEN . I have seen these thirty odd dozen Marlborough wristbands—they came down stairs on the 4th—I was present, all but two dozen, and they came down on Wednesday the 5th—these cuffs before me are what came down on the 9th—not one of this lot had been down before the 4th.
Cross-examined. I was in the workroom when they came down—it is the department I take the management of—there is a book kept to show about outdoor buttonholers—we have lost between 3 and 400l. worth of goods—cuffs, collars, and fronts.
NOT GUILTY .
The Jury expressed their opinion 'that no blame attached to the witness CHILTON.
MR. RINGWOOD conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY FLACK . I am a horsekeeper and foreman of a brickfield, and live near Leytonstone—on 20th April, about, 5.30, I was going to work and heard a child cry—it was a cold morning and there was a little bit of frost—I saw something black against a stack of bricks, saw a jacket and the child was underneath—my mate fetched a person who took up the chlid.
FREDERICK GEORGE BUSTEARD . I am porter at the West Ham Union—I received the child from Kendal, and took it to the receiving ward—the doctor saw it—it did not die for some months, its clothes were then washed and put in the store, the inspector has them.
RALPH (Police Inspector). I produce these clothes which I received from Bustead, one of them is marked "Penny," and the other "Lambeth Workhouse"—I caused the prisoner to be apprehended on 7th January.
MARY MANN . I am a nurse at Lambeth Workhouse—I. know the prisoner—I first saw her on 17th March; she was confined on the 18th March of a female child—she remained in the Workhouse till 14th April, and these clothes produced were given to her when she left—she never came back.
JANE PENNY . The prisoner is a friend of mine—she came to me with her baby on the 14th April, and remained three nights and four days—she left my house on the fourth day to go to Lambeth Workhouse with the child—she used to attend to it—I recognize these articles of clothing—I saw her several times afterwards, but not with the child—she said that it was at Peckham doing well, better than she was.
MARY GILLETT . I live opposite Mrs. Penny—I recollect the prisoner staying there, and leaving—she came back after Mr. Penny thought she had gone to the workhouse—I said to her "My "good girl, what do you do with that baby out at this time of night—she said "I am too late to go "I sail "Go to Mrs. Penny again to-night" she said—"I won't, I will go and do away with the baby and myself," and I saw no more of her then—when I did see her, she said that the baby was doing well at Greenwich.
AARON WARREN (Policeman). I took the prisoner on 22nd January, and told her the charge, she said "I expected to see you when I got outside, on the Monday after I left Norwood I took my child to Harrow Green, and left it there in charge of a little girl while I went to see a friend—I was away but a few hours, and on my return found the little girl was gone, and the child too—I was afraid to give information to the police for fear I should be apprehended for deserting it"—this was about half-a-mile from where the child was found.
THOMAS JAMES VALLANCE , I am surgeon. I attended the child at the workhouse, it was neither strong nor weakly—it lived from 20th April to 2nd August—exposure in a brick field would be likely to injure its health.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY .
MR. STRAIGHT and J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGU
WILLIAMS the Defence.
THOMAS GEORGE LOVEJOY . I am a detective officer at the dockyard Woolwich—about quarter to 7 o'clock on Saturday morning, 15th. January I was in the Albion Road, Woolwich, and saw Brown who is a corn chandler come out of his own yard with a horse and cart, I went up to the cart, it was empty—I bid him good morning, and said "Are you going to market" he said "No," and drove on—I watched the cart, and followed it to the corner of King-Street, and Charles Street, he pulled up there—Burrows was standing on the pavement, he went up to the cart, took it from Brown, went with it into Mr. Barth'syard, and closed the gates after him—Brown stood at the corner of the street berween 20 and 30 yards from the spot—in about ten minnaes Burrows came out again with the horse and cart, and came in the direction of where he had left Brown—I was standing there in company with Gibson another constable—Brown came up to the horse and cart, and they met in the centre of the road—it was dark—I said to Burrows "What have you there "he made no answer—I turned round and saw Brown going towards the pavement again as fast as he could, at a kind of jog trot—I looked into the cart, and saw that it contained four full sacks—I took them to the station, examined them, and found three contained oats, and one bran—I went to Mr. Barth's stable in company with the foreman, and found three empty sacks lying at the top of the ladder—there were other sacks there which were compressed as if somebody had been lying on them—I afterwards went to Brown's honse, and found three empty sacks marked with Mr. Barth's name.
Cross-examined. I have known Brown four years—I don't know that he has kept a shop in the neighbourhood for forty years—I can't say whether he knew me—I know the Lord Whitworth public-house—that is where Brown got out of the cart—I should say that is between 20 and' 30 yards from Mr. Barth's yard—I could see Brown all the time he was there, and he might have seen me—when he went off at a jog-trot he did not go to-wards his own house; he went towards the churchyard—there is a path, across the churchyard to his house, but that is more than quarter-of-a-mile from the spot; it would not be his nearest way home.
Re-examined. Brown had not been in uniform, I don't wear my uniform outside the dockyard.
JAMES BURROWS (the Prisoner). I have pleaded guilty to this charge—before I was taken into custody I resided at 47, Artillery Place, Woolwich, and was in Mr. Barth's employ about six months as yard man to see to the horses and stables—I have only known Brown, a very little while, I had met him three or four times, that was all—I saw him on the Thursday before this Saturday, along by the dockyard wall—he stopped me, but I could not stop to have much conversation with him then, and I said I would see him again; I had a horse with me; I saw him again shortly after along by the dock-yard wall, going towards his home he asked if I had got anything I could sell him—I said "I don't know, I don't like to do anything in that way"—
he said if I had, he would not have it in Mr. Barth's sacks—I said if I did let have any I would have his (Brown's) sacks, nothing else passed between us then—the sacks were sent up to my place on the Friday night, and I took them with me to Mr. Barth's premises in the morning; I got there about 4.30; I chucked the sacks up in the loft and went up to see to the horses—as soon as all the men were out I emptied the corn out of Mr. Barth's sacks, and put it into those that were sent by Brown—I then went out into the road to see if Brown was there, he was not, that was between. 6 and 7 o'clock—I went out again, a little before 7 o'clock, and met him coming along King Street, with his horse and cart—he got out of the cart and handed it to me, and I went in and put the corn into the cart and brought it out again to Brown—he told me to drive down King Street, I knew he was coming that morning, the appointment was made for him to come—he said he would be there about 7 o'clock, or a little after—when I came out with the cart I saw the two detectives standing at the corner by the Lord Whitworth; Brown was on the opposite corner—the detectives came up and asked what I had in the cart—I made no answer—Brown stood about two or three strides away from me, he heard what the detectives said and then he started to run away, leaving me with the cart, he made a kind of a trot, to go as fast as he could, I had met him several times before the Thursday, but not to speak to him much.
Cross-examined. I had spoken to him before, but not anything about this—when he made this proposition to me to sell him anything, I understood it was to rob my master, I have not had any conversation with my master since I have been in prison; I just spoke to him at Woolwich, when I was under remand; I said I was very sorry for what I had done, and I should never have done it if I had not been tempted by Brown—I know a man named Rogers, I did not send him to Brown, the night before to borrow his cart—Rogers worked for Mr. Barth—I did not know that Brown let out a cart; I did not tell my master or the foreman what Brown had said to me.
WILLIAM GIBSON (Dockyard Policeman). I was with Lovejoy. on this Saturday morning—I saw Brown drive his horse and cart from his own premises to Mr. Barth's—Burrows joined him and took the horse and cart inside—Brown got out and stood at the corner of the Lord Whitworth—Burrows came out with the horse and cart and met Brown, we stopped the cart; Brown saw us and went away as fast as he could—I went after him for about twenty yards and called to him by name—he said yes—I asked him to give me some account of this stuff in his cart—he said "The stuff is mine, but some one has stolen my cart"—I said "Your cart is up here, you had better come back and give me some account of this stuff that is in it"—he said "It is mine, that was all I could get out of him—I then took him to the station.
Cross-examined. He did not say "Somebody has hired my cart and is going to return it"—I knew him well—there was no one else by when this conversation took place.
GEORGE BARTH . I am a butcher and contractor at Woolwich—Burrows has been in my service not quite sis months—he had charge of my horses and stables in Charles Street—he had no authority to sell or send anything from my premises—I was shown some sacks of oats after his apprehension; they were similar to those I had on my premises—I have known Brown a good many years as a corn chandler and dealer, his premises are about a mile from mine.
MR. WILLIAMS submitted that there was not sufficient evidence against Brown, to support the Count for receiving, there being no actual receipt of the property by him (see "Reg. v. Wiley, 2, Carrington and Kirwan, 978"). The Common Serjeant entertained some doubt as to the actual receiving, but would not stop the case, the Jury being now empowered to find a prisoner guilty of an attempt if they entertained a doubt of the actual completion of the offence.
Witness for the defence.
JOHN ROGERS . I live at 4, Wellesley, Terrace, Anglesey Road, Woolwich, and worked for Mr. Barth—I know Brown by seeing him and meeting him in the streets—I have known Burrows, five or five weeks in the yard—on Friday night, 14th Jauuary—he said to me "If you can go and see Brown, tell him I want him to meet me at the Lord Whitworth, in King Street, at 7 o'clock in the morning; I want the loan of his horse and cart for about an hour, and I shall reward him for the same"—I met Brown, in Coleman Street, Woolwich, and gave him the message.
Cross-examined. I had met Brown before, several times about the town—I am not in Mr. Barth's employ now, be discharged me, he did not tell me why, that is what I want to know, the foreman gave me my money on the Saturday night, and said I was not wanted any longer—he did not suggest I had anything to do with this transaction—I had been in the employ two years and five months—I did not ask why I was discharged; I have not brought an action against Mr. Barth, I did not think it odd of Burrows to send this message to Brown by me—I should do the same to oblige any man.
Both prisoners' received good characters.
BROWN— GUILTY — Fifteen Months' Imprisonment. BURROWS— Nine Month's Imprisonment.
MR. BESLEY conducted (the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS
HENRY SYKES BALLS . I am a pawnbroker in London Street, Greenwich, and also at Lewisham and Peckham—I bought the business at Greenwich in May last, from a Mr. Nash—I took over the whole stock, and engaged the prisoner—he and his wife lived on the premises, and he was manager.—I did not see the child's robe before it was found—I have seen the bed—I purchased one in Mr. Nash's stock that cost 1l. 6s. 6d.—Mr. Nash's private mark was "May flowers"—there was "M. O. O." on the bed, which means 1l. 6s. 6d.—there was no other bed marked in the same way—I have seen the bed-tick which I believe to be the same—I used to go to the business as a rule twice a week—the card of lockets (produced) was in the window—there was a locket hauging on each hook, all new ones—these were not taken from Mr. Nash, but purchased since—I first knew there was a locket missing on the 26th November, the same day the prisoner was dismissed—his fellow-assistant, Arthur Tilling accused him—he came into my room and told me privately—I told the prisoner to go into my room—Tilling was there and Rawlings also—I told him to produce his watch chain; he went to an adjoining room—I said "Lon't take anything off," he said "All right"—he was absent three or four minutes, and when be came in there was neither locket, seal, nor coin on the chain, and I returned
it to him—I said "There are a seal and key missing from a chain from the window, and you have been seen wearing it"—he said "No, I have not'—he afterwards said that he had made the seal and key good in stock for 7s.—I said "You have no right to do so," and "there's a locket missing off the card in the window," he said "Yes, it cost 4s."—Tilling said "No, it cost 8s. 9d.—produce the locket and let Mr. Balls decide"—I asked him where the locket was, and he said "I have sold it for 4s. 6d."—I said "Who have you sold it to, a person in my shop?"—he said "No, I met a man in the street and sold it to him for 4s. 6d."—I said "You had no authority to do so"—I had not myself seen this locket (produced) hanging to the card—I said "Tilling has told me that he purchased a coin during your absence for 8s., and you have been seen to wear it on your watch-cbain, where is it"—he said "I have lost it"—I asked him if he had seen one like it since, and he said 'Yes' he had taken one in pledge of a man for 10s. 6d.—I said "You had no right, and according to your own account you have robbed me of half a crown"—he said "I paid into the stock 8s."—which was the money given to the man in buying it—of course all profits belong to me—I had not given him any authority to take any article out of my stock—no assistant of mine is allowed to do so—nothing is allowed to be bought without being entered in the purchase-book, nor sold without entry—there is no entry with reference to the coin, seal, key, or locket—I afterwards found this locket (produced) upon one of the hooks on the card—I cannot say which figure it was over—15s. 6d. was a blank—I have never seen that locket in the prisoners possession—it was never bought for the purpose of Stock, to sell—it never was in my stock at all—the greatest value of it is half-a-crown—I have been a pawnbroker for over thirty years—after the prisoner's dismissal I found among the pledges this duplicate(produced) and it his writing—I never saw a coin like it—it is a foreign coin, very remarkable—I cannot say whether it is current or historic—I do not know if it is Persian.
Cross-examined. I have three establishments—Rawlings was next in command to the prisoner, only in a different department—he was a salesman—when the prisoner came into my service he had an inventory of his goods—I wished it to be so—he has complained to me of Rawlings—I have charged him with stealing a bed ticking and child's robe—I did tell him to leave my shop and not to come upon my premises again, but as his wife is in the family way and likely to be confined she could remain—he packed his things on the Monday when he came and took them all away, I do not know what in, I was not present—I have not found the seal and key—I have been told a bed of his was left behind—I have not found a bed.
Re-examined. His complaint about Rawlings was that in a former employment he had been guilty of some dishonesty—I made inquiries and continued Rawlings in my service; he is in my service now—my people were not allowed to alter the prices of goods marked in my shop, nor any discretion for taking lower prices, only in taking pledges—all goods to the value of 1d. must be entered in the book—sales must all be entered in a distinct book—I did not buy all my stock, only for the Peckham house—I bought the lockets at the Peckham house and transferred them to the Greenwich house—the prisoner had authority to buy.
ARTHUR GEORGE TILLING . I am second assistant in Mr. Balls' service at the London Street shop—the prisoner was the manager, residing with his wife on the premises—when he was absent it was my duty to attend to the
shop—I remember his being out in September, and whilst absent a man came and offered a gold coin for sale—Rawlings, the salesman, was in the other shop—I took it in and showed it to him—I bought it for 8s.—Igot the money to pay for it out of the till in the pledge shop—it was my duty to report to the prisoner for him to enter it in the book—upon his return I showed him the coin and told him I had given 8s.—he said "I shall have it for myself"—I saw the coin afterwards, one I believe to be the same, on a gold chain—I could not say how long he wore a gold chain—it might have been a month—I was not present on the 25th October, when a person brought in a gold coin to pledge—the prisoner told me that he had taken in pledge a coin like his—he showed it me—I Jo not swear to it, but I have every reason to believe it is the one produced—he did not show me his own coin at the time—I never saw what he calls his own coin after the time it was in pledge—I had never to my recollection seen a coin like that one—I remember this watch chain being exposed for sale in the window; there was attached to it two keys and a black onyx seal—I saw the prisoner wearing them on his chain and said to him "I have seen these in the window"—he said "No, you hav'nt, I allowed 7s. for them" there was no other watch chain that had two keys and a seal upon it—I remember the card of lockets (produced)—Inoticed a locket above the 15s. 6d. mark—I missed it, and there was another put in its place—I recognised a locket formerly belonging to the prisoner, which was put over the 13s. 6d. mark, the latter supplying the blank above the 15s.; 6d—we had the window out one Friday and he said "I will make a swop"—he had the other locket for himself and put this one in place of it—I cannot say I did exactly. see him take it—I cannot say at that time he had in his possession the one produced—he said "What is my locket worth, a crown? I shall exchange mine for this one"—he pointed to the one marked 15s. 6d.—after that I noticed there had been a change, and his own put on the 13s. 6d.—I had seen him several times with the locket produced—I cannot say I handled the locket when he asked the value of it; I have handled it. I can swear this is the locket—this is the book (produced) in which entry would be made of purchases by the prisoner—this is his handwriting upon this page—there is no entry on the 25th September of the coin for 8s. of the till money, which I reported to him—Mr. Rawlings keeps the sale book—it is his duty to enter, if the prisoner is himself the purchaser—I remember the stock-taking on the 7th November; the stock was deficient—I made a communication to, Mr. Balls upon that—I was present when the prisoner was called into the room and asked to produce his watch chain; he went into the next room, his bedroom; he was there two or three minutes—I heard Mr. Balls call out to him "Don't take anything off"—I heard a jingling sound—when be came in he showed his chain—there was an old-fashioned seal and key upon it; the key I have seen on former occasions, but not the seal—the coin was not there—I don't recollect whether Mr. Balls said anything to him about the seal and key—there was a something said about the locket—I told him what I knew about it, and he said he had sold the locket to a stranger in the street—he said that it was worth 4s.—I said "It cost 8s. 9d."—he said "What stuff"—I said "It is false, Mr. Ball's judgment will prove whether it cost 8s. 9d. or 4s."—the gold coin was mentioned—I told him I had bought it for 8s.—he said "What is it worth, 10s. 6d.?"—Mr. Balls said You have robbed me of baif-a-crown"—he said he had lost it—no reference
was made at that time to the gold coin in pledge—I went to the premises with the detectives where the prisoner had gone to reside, 43, Hatcham Park Road—I there saw a bed-tick—which I recognised—I knew it by the mark in the corner—I had been in Mr. Nash's service, and the mark was the same—when it was in Mr. Nash's stock there were feathers in it, but when I found it there was nothing in it—the M.O.O. is on it—there was no other bed in Nash's stock at the time of the transferring of the business I have looked through the sale book entries, but cannot find one of a bed that cost 1l. 6s. 6d.—I have not seen this before (the prisoner's inventory of his goods)—I could not tell if it is his inventory—since he has left I have seen a bed without a mark upon it; all stock is marked—it does not belong to the stock at all—the one in question was out of the stock, not part of the furniture of the house—it was found in a large box on the landing of the prisoner's premises.
Cross-examined. I will not undertake to say that before the transfer of the business there was only one bed marked M.O.O.—I was not present when the child's robe was found—I went to the prisoner's with Mr. Rawlings—I beleive I heard him ask the prisoner's wife more than once for the child's robe before it was found—I could not say who found it—I myself first opened the drawer, and Mrs. Brockbank began to cry, and I said out of respect "We will not have the drawer opened at all"—one of them spoke about the child's robe—I cannot swear it was Rawlings—I have sworn that Rawlings, before the child's robe was found asked for it more than once, but not at the time of opening the drawer—I never said a word about the coin to my master until November—the lockets were not very often taken off to be cleaned—they were at times—sometimes I did it, and sometimes the prisoner did—It is about a month since he told me he should have a swop with his own locket and one that was in his window—before I mentioned it to my master I did not say he had been wearing it for two months—it was about six weeks before I made the communication to my master, and I mentioned it at the same time that I mentioned the coin—I had not said anything about it before—I had seen him wearing it occasionally in the shop about a month—I was present when the prisoner left—his wife remained about three days after.
WILLIAM RAWLINGS . I was salesman from May to November last in the service of Mr. Balls at the London Street house—I lived in the house and lodged out—I was not there on Sundays—the prisoner and his wife ought to have been the only persons living in the house on Sundays, but I believe they were not—I remember a coin being bought by the last witness—he showed it to me—I examined it—I saw 8s. paid for it from the till—I was not present when the sale was reported to Brockbank—I afterwards saw him wearing the coin every day on his Albert—I know something of a coin being taken in pledge on the 25th October; I was not present at the time—I saw it afterwards—Tilling and I were at tea—Tillingshowed it tome the next morning—I said nothing to the prisoner about it—I examined that coin at the time—I feel confident it is the same as was bought for 8s.—I have been in the business between eleven and twelve years—I have never seen a coin like it—I never saw the prisoner wearing a coin from the time that one was marked as a pledge—I know of a locket being on the card marked 15s. 6., and of the prisoner wearing a lockot—this (produced) is the one, another
being put in the place of it—I have never found the 15s. 6d. locket—if sales are made I enter them at the time—I have never entered the sale of the missing 15s. 6d. locket—there is no entry of the sale of the coin nor of the purchase—I know a feather bed was in stock at the time the business was taken by Mr. Balls, it was marked "M. O. O.," which means 1l. 6s. 6d. cost price—this (produced) is the bed tick of the bed—the figures were quite plain without the obliteration when the tick was in Mr. Nash's stock—there has been no sale of a bed costing 1l. 6s. 6d.—things are taken out of their wrappers previous to being marked for sale—I know something of a child's robe—some goods were opened by Mr. Brockbank and placed in a corner for a Mr. Flowers, a dealer, to purchase—amongst them was this very handsome robe, and I said to Mr. Brockbank "I should like this robe"—Mr. Brockbank said "I should, like that if it goes into stock," and put it on one side—a little after that it was gone and never entered in my sale book—I was present at stocktaking, and there was a deficiency—after that I communicated to Mr. Balls and Tilling—I mentioned the. robe before Brockbank went—I went with the officers to the place where the prisoner lived and was present when the robe was there—we were first refused to see a certain drawer opened—Mrs. Brockbank said "I cannot let you see that; that is my baby things"—I said "Very well, Mrs. Brockbank, I will just ask you this question, has Mr. Brockbank ever brought a robe to you?"—she said, "No, I have only got one; which was presented to me as a valentine"—Goodwin said "I think we had better see that drawer, I don't like it being left;" and she said she would like to take it out herself, and she brought out two robes—this is the robe (produced)—I can swear to the pattern if there were fifty with it—it is not a very common pattern—it is not stamped with the price—I have noticed an onyx seal on a gold Albert in the jewellery window—I missed it—I was one Sunday morning walking in Greenwich Park, and saw Mr. Brockbank sitting upon a seat—he seemed to lean down, as though he did not wish to see me—he said "Halloo, old fellow, how are you," and immediately placed his hand upon his chain, and when he got up I saw a seal and key upon it—the next morning I went to the window and found they were not there—this was between the 25th September and 25th October—I have since the prisoner has been in custody known that he has accused me of being dishonest with a former employer—I have never in my life been accused.
Cross-examined. I saw the prisoner wearing it for a month—I saw him wearing the coin about three weeks, and the locket the same time—he sometimes wore them in the shop—he never wore a chain when Mr. Balls camel made a communication to Mr. Balls on the 26th November—the prisoner was discharged and requested to go away directly—he left directly—his wife and goods left three days afterwards—Tilling was present when Mrs. Brockbank refused that we shonld look in the drawer—I did not ask for the robe more than once before it was found—it might have been twice.
Re-examined. The prisoner was there when the wife and the goods went away—I cannot say if the inventory was used for the purpose of seeing that everything was taken away—a charwoman and Mrs. Brockbank packed up the goods and took them away.
found a ruler in the front room—I saw the bed-tick in a box on the landing, nothing in it besides a little fluff—I was searching the drawers, and came to the second long one, when Mrs. Brockbank said "I must object to your searching that"—she cried and seemed very much distressed—I turned to Rawlings and said "Is there anything missing in the shape of child's articles"—he said "Yes, a robe" I said "Very well ma'am we will be as delicate as possible, but I must see the contents of the drawer"—this robe is one of the two—before we took the things out of the drawer she said there was only one.
Cross-examined. Rawlings was present—He did not enquire more than once of the prisoner's wife "Where is the child's robe?"I named the robe first—I did swear betore the magistrate that Rawlings addressed the enquiry to the prisoner's wife more than once "Where is the child's robe "!
The prisoner received a good character.
There was another indictment against the prisoner' for unlawfully omitting to make certain entries of sales, upon which no evidence being offered he wasacquitted.
WALTER KING (Policeman 142 R). On the 27th December I was on duty in uniform in charge of a police van which left Greenwich police-station at 2.5 containing seven prisoners for'Maidstone, of whom Graney was one—I took them to the New Cross railway station, Deptford, set them down, and gave them to the person whose duty it was to take them to Maidstone—I never went into the station—I went to the van and then to the booking office, where Graney came rushing out at the door and struck me a blow on the head which knocked off my helmet, saying "I will'settle this b———, anyhow; they are all the same to me"—before I could recover myself he struck me again, and I closed with him, and finally, with Hobbs' assistance, got him into the van—I did not see Howard—I was stunned and kicked all over my body and legs—I have been in the doctor's hands nine or ten days.
FREDERICK RITCHBELL (Policeman 235 R). I was on duty at New Cross station when the van drove up—I saw the prisoners leave the van and go into the station for Maidstone—the prisoners and a number of others in the station commenced hustling the prosecutor—Graney's brother was one of the prisoners—I got hold of Graney and turned him out—I saw Howard outside the station; she struck King several times on the head with a tin. bottle—I went to King's assistance, and Graney struck me.
Howard. It was this prisoner's mother did it.
Witness. I am sure it was you.
PETER MARGESTON (Policeman 255 R). I was the driver of the van—I saw Graney inside the station with his hat and coat off—I saw Howard strike King twice on the head with a tin bottle—I know that she had a son there.
Howard. It was Graney's mother struck the prosecutor; it was not me.
Witness. I am sure you are the person.
JOHN CREASY (Police Sergeant 39 R). I was inside the station, and saw Graney with his coat off creating a great disturbance in the lobby of the railway station; his hat and coat were off—I assisted in ejecting him from
the lobby, and then went outside and saw him strike King—I then made my way towards the platform, having seven prisoners in my charge.
HENRY HOBBS . I am a cab proprietor—I was outside New Cross station and saw Graney there half an hour before the van drove up with his hat and coat off and his shirt-sleeves turned up—I saw him thrust from the station, and the door closed, and he fell upon King and beat and kicked him severely, and if I had not helped to get him off the step of the van he would have broken his back—I saw Howard strike the constable three times on. the head with a quart tin bottle, and I gave her into custody—she had Graney's coat on her arm the whole time—Graney was got into the van and taken to the station—he was very drunk, but Howard was sober.
Graney's Defence. This is a different statement to that which was made at the police-court.
Howard's Defence. I am quite innocent, I am the wrong party—my husband has been looking for the woman who done the deed, but she has left Deptford—I never struck him.
GRANEY— GUILTY — Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. HOWARD— GUILTY — Four Months' Imprisonment.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. BEASLEY and MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL ROBERTS . I live at 40, Auckland Road, Roman Road, Old Ford—about August last year Mr. Wiles, his wife, his two daughters, and the prisoner came to lodge with me—the prisoner then had the name of Henry George Mercer—the eldest daughter was his wife—he represented to me that a large amount of property was coming to him, and that Government was claiming it for him as a pauper—he borrowed on one occasion 35 a under the pretence of getting a document stamped—he also showed me a letter purporting to come from the Provincial Bank and in reference to certain receipt the document—no notes were in the letter, and the prisoner in consequence asked me to lend him 10s. to go to Roches, ter to see his solicitor about it—he also read me a letter purporting to come from his aunt, Hender Estate, Penzance, Cornwall, in reference to 100l. He was to receive—I believed all he said about "his property," and that is why I parted with my money—he stated that his lawyers were Mr. Harcourt and Mr. James, Q.C.—he used to complain how Mr. James served him, and he got the Government to give it over to Mr. Harcourt—he often showed me documents; some were supposed to be signed by Mr. Cross, Secretary of State, and others by Mr. Chambers, and a few by Mr. Harcourt—I afterwards lent him 8l. 5s. after a good deal of persistence on his part—he gave me this I O U for 9l.—I believed all he said because of his movements and conversations—he would leave my house every day between 10 and 12o'clock" and be back at 5 o'clock, and relate how he had been getting on,
that he had sat in the Treasury five or six hours without anything to eat, and so on—he pressed me for the last 5s. I had, so that my wife had to go and get money for tea, and on this occasion stating be would be home before tea and would make it all right—he left with Mr. Wills, who returned home about 8 or 9 o'clock without the prisoner—I did not see him again until he was in custody.
Cross-eamined by the Prisoner. Your father-in-law and mother-in-law told me a good deal about expecting property to be settled—when they took the apartments they did not say you were going to pay their rent—they did not tell me you had been a good son-in-law and that they had forgiven their daughter a good deal, until after you went away—it might have been a few days longer than a week after you were in my house that we had a conver sation about money—I read a great number of documents I believe some had a coat of arms on them—I did not swear at the police-court that your relations told me your wife had committed bigamy—after you left my house we found out that you were the biggest set of swindlers in the-parish—I was told you had been in Camberwell. Asylum—I do not know whether you applied the money you had of me to the purpose for which you had it—when Mr. Wiles came back without you, he said you had left him at a beershop to go to the Treasury I did not make any inquiries of the postman.
WILLIAM WITHAM . I am clerk to Mr. Montagu Chambers, Q. C.—he was not engaged in August or September last year in gaining property for Henry George Mercer—he has no matters in that name at all, nor anything of that nature with Mr. Vernon Harcourt or Mr. Secretary Cross—this is the first I have heard of such—
Cross-examined. I do not know a John Pollard or John Morrison.
THOMAS SNOW . I am a clerk in the National Provincial Bank of England—there is no such name as Ben Oliver, connected with the bank—I do not know this writing—we have no customer of the name of. "Hender, of Apsley Lodge; Hender Estate, Penzance Cornwall"—we have had no cheque for 50l. from such person nor had instructions to send notes for 50l. to Mr. Henry Mercer, 40, Auckland Road.
Cross-examined. I have never seen you before to my knowledge—I have not seen you at the bank making enquiries.
GEORGE LYNN . I live at 3 Rockingham Street Newington Causeway and am a general dealer—I remember last October the prisoner living at Mrs. Wiggins' 32, Holyoak Road—he represented himself as in the service of Harrison, of Chancery. Lane,. auctioneer and merchant—it was a mercantile office and everything, and that he was an accountant there, that the Government office was. next to it and that he had licenses for the protection of women—on the 5th November he asked me to let him have 3l.—I had only 30s. by me, which I lent him—he said he was going to receive 50l. out of 800l. from Mr. Pollard whom he represented as Solicitor to the Treasury—he stated he had to go to Southampton to take up a case; that he had only just entered the service of Mr. Pollard—I believed his story when I advanced him the money—he produced a telegram on the Monday purporting to come from Mr. Pollard, of Whitehall Place, giving him instructions to go to Southampton and be back in time for the trial to come on on Wednesday—he asked me for more money and I gave him another 30s., which made 3l.—he further stated that he had conducted a case which he carried from Rochester to Newgate and from there to the Queen's Bench and had done it so well that Mr.
Pollard employed him to be an accountant—a week after he sent me this letter and I 0 U (produced)—I have never been paid the money nor seen the prisoner since until in custody.
Cross-examined. I have lent you money before and you have paid me, or you would not have had auy more—I saw so many papers I could not tell you what I did see—you showed me a deed of separation.
ANNIE WIGGINS . I am the wife of Amos Wiggins, 32, Holyoak Road—I am living there still—my husband and I could not agree, and we are not living together—the prisoner took my apartments on the 28th September—I had not known him before—he represented to me that he was a clerk at Mr. Morrisson's, Chancery Lane, an accountant, auctioneer, and appraiser; also that he was Secretary to the Society for the Protection of Women and Children—he said he had been eight and a half years with Mr. Morrison, who was a solicitor, and had a mercantile office in Chancery Lane, and had about 500 clerks—with respect to the separation of my husband and myself he said if I would give him 15s., with an outline of my case, he would put it into the hands of Mr. Morrison and get it settled for me in about three weeks—I paid him the 15s—that is what he wrote in that book (produced)—I also paid him 4l. 5s. to make up 5l.—at the end of a week he brought me this document (produced) and said I must pay more money for it to be stamped and sealed—I paid one guinea for the seal and 5s. for the stamp—I quite believed what he said—I paid him 12l. for Mr. Morrison's expenses, as he stated, as the case was a long one—he showed me this document (produced), purporting to be a solicitor's certificate of examination, and stated he was going to be examined and hoped to pass as a solicitor—he came home and said he had passed—he said there was 1l. to pay on the certificate—he also produced these two other documents, and I gave him 3l. more—he stated it would cost him 80l. to take up his brief, as he could not practice in criminal cases without his brief—I believed he he said was true—on the following Saturday he put up this plate on ray door—this card was also put up the first week—he showed me this letter, purporting to come from Eleanor Redman—he stated at the time that the affair was a a very unpleasant one, and he put on a black coat, black studs, and' black necktie in order to look like a solicitor—on this occasion I lent him 10l., I think—I have no date nor note of anything—I remember a sum of 4l. 18s. that I lent him—he gave me these two receipts—I quite believed he was instructed by Mrs. Redman and that what he stated was in connection with his mother's death—I was induced by his representations to lend him my money and expected to have it back with good interest—I lent him the 10l. towards expenses attending his mother's death—he stated she had left him some furniture, a house, and about 150l.—he said she livedat Alma Lodge, Bow, for a great many years—he went away and when he came back he pretended to be much affected—we had the blinds down for three days—One day he took me to a public-honse in the Westminster Bridge Road, and showed me an advertisement in the Morning Advertiser which related to his uncle's death, and he said that on the 1st January he should be a very rich man—the same evening he came home supposed to have been garrotted—The made pretences to marry me all along, and spoke about getting a divorce from my husband, the expanses of which he was to pay, but that has not been got—I have passed as Mrs. Chandler—the night when be came home supposed to have been robbed, he had been wearing my watch, and a brass Albert of his own—he began to cry, and said the detectives would be
in presently—they came but neither of them seemed to think he had been garrotted—I got some stuff which I rubbed his neck with, it soon got well—this receipt for two guineas he showed me—ho said he paid the two. guineas for services in getting a draft from the bank, and 1l. 17s. was to bo made up before it could be cashed—I paid him the 1l. 17s. as well as the two guineas, and also 5s. for this handbill to be printed—he has shown me a telegram and two letters relating to his brother Thomas's illness and death and stated he would have his brother's property—I advanced him more money to assist him in securing it—I quite believed everything he said—he told me about Mr. Pollard of the Treasury employing him as an accountant and that he was to act in will cases first—I advanced him more money at different times—sometimes 7s. 6d., and sometimes 10s. for expenses—he said he used to be kept late at the Treasury having champagne suppers with Mr. Pollard, and Mr. Beasley, and also Mr. Secretary Cross—one day he came home in great delight stating he had got through a case, and was to receive his money in four hours, but before he could do so he had to pay 28l. duty—I got as much together on that occasion as I could for him and even sold my furniture—he left with 8l. 9s. in his pocket, and I had 2 1/2d.—that was the last money I advanced to him—I pawned everything I had for him—he stated he would be back in an hour—he told me he was to have an appointment at a salary of 320l. a year for his good services in a will case, and that his hours were to be from 2 to 4 o'clock—he went away on the 1st December, and I waited up till 2 o'clock expecting him back again—subsequently I received these telegrams (produced.) Eventually I met him at the Waterloo station, and he came home with me—he said he was very ill, and got into bed—I told him if he would keep quiet I would make him some gruel, and while he was keeping quiet I sent for a policeman, who took him into cutsody—I handed the books and documents (produced), to the police inspector—1 lived with the prisoner as his wife only for a few days prior to his leaving I believed him from beginning to end—I had 23l. 10s. in pledge, and he had my watch which he sold for 25s.—he had my last 5s.,
Cross-examined. You gave me Mr. Morrison as a reference when taking my apartments—I did not go for it at the time—you gave me half a guinea deposit—I have been since to find Mr. Morrison, but there is no Mr. Morrison—I placed my separation in your hands as Mr. Morrison's agent—I have advanced you more money than I could account for.
WILLIAM CHAMBEBLAIN (Detective L). On 12th November last, a communication was made to me by Inspector Huskisson about a robbery, in consequence of which I went to 32, Holyoak Road, with Detective Duke—I there found the prisonor—I told him who I was—he said that he wasan accountant and private inquiry agent at the Home Office, employed by Mr. Pollard of the Treasury—he gave me the particulars of the alleged robbery—I made inquiries and found that what he had stated was not correct—I made a report to my superiors—I think Mrs. Wiggins first spoke to me on 2nd or 3rd December—she gave me some documents which I have produced, also this book and a number of letters and receipts—I was with Inspector Huskisson when he apprehended the prisoner, he was in bed—I went into the room first—he said "How dare you come into my room"—I said "Do you know who I am, I have come to take you into custody for stealing the watch that you represented was stolen from you, also for obtaining money from Mrs. Wiggins by false pretences"—he said "You,
must prove that—I can't get up, I have met with an accident at Southampton, and I have three of my ribs broken, and I must see my doctor before I get up"—I told him I did not believe that—the doctor did not come—we forced him out of bed, and took him to the station—I then sent for the divisional surgeon who examined him, and found no marks of violence or any ribs broken.
Cross-examined. I said at the police-court that the 12th November wasnot raining, but it was a wet dirty night—you reported the robbery to me, and gave me all the particulars; you first went to the inspector—you said you were insenable, and you at the same time said you saw a man go into a house in the next street—I made a memorandum of your statement, Mr. Pollard has it—I was shewn a number of duplicates by Mrs. Wiggin's in various names, Chandler & Smith—I made inquiry about the watch, at Mr. Russell's, in Shoreditch—I stated at Lambeth, that I had got some clue to it—on 25th January, I received from you a pawn ticket relating to a watch—Mrs. Wiggins said that the watch had been broken and mended, and sent home in a small box—I have not made inquiry into that pawn ticket; that watch was pawned at Gravesend—I ascertained that one had been pledged at Russell's, and you said it was the one that had been purchased—I have not seen the watch that was pledged for 10s., the one you stole was, worth 10l. or 15l.—you have given me I suppose fifty false names and addresses of persons, and caused me to go and make inquiry, and I have found it funtrue.
JOHN HUSKISSON . I am Chief-Inspector of the A Division of police—the prisoner was arrested and made the answers I have heard—I shewed him this document representing that he was a solicitor, and had passed his examination—he said "I have not taken up my brief yet"—at the police station he was examined by a doctor, because he said he was ill, but there was nothing the matter with him—as to this telegram (produced) I asked if it was from Mr. Pollard of the Treasury, and he said "that you will have to find out"—I have been to Hammersmith and found a place called South Cottages, but there are only twelve house—I could not find No. 19, South Cottages—I found a 19, South Street, but no person had lived nor died there in the name of Redman.
CHARLES BENWELL . I am clerk in the Treasurer's Office of the Society of the Inner Temple—the certificate I have seen is not from our office—there is no solicitors examination held at the Inner Temple—it is an institution solely for barristers—I do not know the prisoner.
Cross-examined. There was a Mr. Mercer, a barrister, connected with the Inner Temple, but he had a certificate on the 1st May, 1874, and went to India, I believe within a week of that date—there has not been a Mr. John Pollard, for the last fifty-six years.
ISAAC SHEPHERD . I live at 53, Paradise Strect, Lambeth—I once lived at 89, Regent Street, Lambeth, eight or nine years since—I am a coroner's officer—I do not know the prisoner—I was never employed by him to trace out a draft or something in connection with a robbery—I never saw him until in custody at the Lambeth police-court, to my knowledge—I know nothing of a letter signed "I Shepherd," of Deptford, it is not ray writing—the receipt for two guineas I know nothing of—it does not bear my signature.
Cross-examined. I never gave any of my cards to a man named Morrison, to give ont—I saw a card similar to one of mine, but not mine, at the Lambeth police-court.—
HENRY PICKERING CLARK . I am chief clerk to the Personal Application Department of the Probate Division—since the 1st October, 1875, to the end of last year there has been no application made to me as to proving a will in the name of Redman, of South Cottages, Hammersmith.
Cross-examined. We have no one connected with the society in the name of Morrison.
FRANCIS JAMES TOBIN . I am clerk in the secretary's, office of the General Post-office—the original telegram forms which the public fill up are sent to the head office—I produce two of those—the first is dated October 25th, handed in at Dalston Junction from Henry King, High Street; Kingsland, to Henry Chalnder, 32, Holyoak Road, Newington Butt's—the other form is dated November 8th, from J. Pollard, 9, Whitehall Place, to Henry Chalnder—spelt in the same way.
CHARLES CHABOT . I am an expert in handwriting—I have 'examined the several documents in this case—the two telegrams, one from Henry King, and the other from John Pollard, are in. the same handwriting—the writing in this book (produced), and the writing in this letter (produced) from the National Provincial Bank, signed Ben Oliver are the same—a letter signed E. Hender, is in the same handwriting—two receipts are-the same handwriting, and also the letter about passing his final examination as solicitor—the manuscript produced by the printer is in the same handwriting. (Other documents were handed to the witness, which he stated were also in the prisoner's handwriting, although written in different styles).
Cross-examined. In my experience I find very many handwritings resemble each other—I have not stood by and seen you write—I have seen what has been written by you—I have seen a document purporting to be a deed of separation and three letters received by you while you were at Horsemonger Lane Gaol—two of them I cannot identify, but the others are written by yourself.
WILLIAM HENEY POLLARD . I am in the office of the Solicitor to the Treasury—I do not know the prisoner—I never gave him any work to do for the Treasury—I never knew him to have been employed in Government cases for the Treasury—I never knew of nor paid him a sum of 750l., nor knew of a balance of 50l. being due to him—I have seen a telegram purporting to come from J. Pollard; I never sent it—it is not true that I was introduced to the prisoner in a will case in order to assist the Government in it
at Rochester—I am not aware of the sum of 800l. being paid into the Treasury by John Pollard.
Cross-examined. My name is not Juhn Pollard—there is no John Pollard at the Treasury office, nor a Mr. Richard Astley Cross—I think I have never seen any orders issued for the payment of 825l.—if a man were put in a lunatic asylum his property would not go in Chancery—if a man were convicted his property would not now be confiscated.
LESLIE CHARLES GORDON . I am assistant receiver of wills in the Probate Division—no papers have been left relative to the will of Rodman, South Cottages, Hammersmith, since September, 1875—there is no entry of such. will in the books.
The prisoner, in a long address, slated that he had been made the dupe of others; that he had been put in prison and in an asyslum by his wife's relations in order that he should not prosecute her for committing bigamy; that he had been led to believe that he had a right to property which Mr. John Pollard was to recover for him, and that the papers produced were genuine papers relating to that property.
Witnesses for the Prisoner.
SARAH OWES . I am a widow, living at 2, Gordon Grove, Holland Road, Brixton—I know nothing about the prisoner only that he was brought to my place by Mrs. Wiggins—when I returned on one occasion from fetching my washing everything was cleared from my place—I cannot say whether the husband or Mrs. Wiggins had the things.
SARAH KING . I am a married woman, living at 11, Library Road, Roman Road Old Ford—I have heard of the prisoner going to an asylum, but I don't remember—I have heard he came into property—his father is not in this court now, he is very ill; I know Julia, his wife—I have heard that she committed bigamy—I think she and her family have been his bitterest enemies for some time.
GUILTY —Several previous convictions were proved against the prisoner.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. POLAND conducted the Paosecution.
ALICE SARTIE . My husband is a tobacconist, of 40, Cranbourn Street, Leicester Square on 7th December, a little after 9 o'clock I served Johnson with a 2d. cigar, he gave me a florin, I put in the detector, and told him it was bad he offered to pay me with coppers, but I gave him in charge he said that he got it at a baked potato can.
ELIZA STEELE . I am barmaid at the Swan Hotel, Norwood on 23rd December I served Rawlins with a glass of stout he gave me a florin, I gave him the change, and put it in the till where there was no other florin he came in again within five minutes for a glass of ale I served him, he gave me a florin, I gave him the change, and kept, it in my hand when he left I looked at it, and found it was bad I took the other one out of the till, there was only one there I gave them both to the Inspector who marked them these are they (produced).
JOHN WILLIAM LASSAM . I keep the Thicket Hotel, Annerly—Early in January my barman brought me a bad florin—I went to the bar, saw Rawlins there, and asked him what he meant by attempting to pass bad money, he said that he had it given to him in change, I asked him if he had any more, he put his hand in his pocket, and produced Is. And two copper coins—I broke the florin in pieces, and threw them into the fire—I have not the slightest doubt it was bad.
Cross-examined by RAWLINS. I did not say at the police-court that I thought you were the man, but I could not swear to you—I said that you had shaved, but I found that it was only because you were in the shade of a lamp.
CAROLINE MITCHELL . I am barmaid at the Thicket Hotel—I saw Raw linson come in there some evening in January, I have no doubt about him—he gave me a bad florin—I said "I think this is bad," called my master, and it was destroyed.
LAURENCE PATTESON . My master is a draper, of Annerley—on 15th January about 9 o'clock I served Rawlins with a pair of mittens which came to 8 ¾d. he gave me a bad florin—I called Mr. Richards after him to it, and he was given in custody—he said that he got it at the Swan public-house where he charged a half crown.
HARVEY RICHARDS . I am a draper, at Annerley-on Saturday night, the 15th January, Patterson gave me a bad florin—Rawlins was there, and I said to him "Have you any more like that?"—he showed me some more money, and said that he had it in change for a half-crown at the Swan—I sent for a constable, and while we were waiting I saw Johnson peering in at the window; I went out and fetched him in—he said "I don't know anything of this man; what do you want of me?"—I gave them in custody, with the florin.
FRANK COLDERY . I am an apprentice to the last witness—on this Satur-day night, about 8.45, I saw the prisoners just below the shop on the same side of the road talking to one another—I went into the shop and saw Rawlins come in—Johnson was then outside.,
Cross-examined by Rawlins. When you were both together you were either counting money or something—I did not think. of that last Wednesday week at the police-court.
Cross-examined by Johnson. I did not say after you were searched "Oh, yes; I know them now;" nor did my master say "You stick to it, stick to it"—it is dark by the railway, but you were talking under the lamp post.
Rawlins' Defence. I am not guilty of passing these two at the Swan—one at Mr. Richards', I gave to the young man, and he took it in, and come out afterwards and said that it was bad.
Johnson's Defence. Is it likely that if I knew the man was in the shop with a bad florin I should go and look in at the window?—I know-nothing of him, I was not with him.
GUILTY — Two Years' Imprisonment each.
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCES WELLS . I keep a general shop at 60, Webber Street—on the 10th January, between 5 and 6 o'clock, the elder prisoner paid me a florin for half an ounce of tobacco, which came to 2d.—I gave him his change, and put if in the till; there was no other florin there—about 10.30 the little boy came in for 1d. worth of cheese, and gave me a florin—I found it was greasy, and bent it; it was bad—he said "What is the matter?"—I said "My dear, it is a bad one"—he said "It is one mother has taken at the butcher's"—I told him to take it to his mother—I then went to the till and found the first was bad—there was no other there—I took it to my husband—on the 12th January the elder prisoner came in for half an ounce of tobacco—he gave me a florin; I found it was bad, and bent it—he took it up, and the piece came out; he put it to his teeth and handed it back to me—I broke it again, and he took the three pieces away with him—I gave the first florin to the constable.
GEORGINA TAYLOR . I am in the service of Mr. Rope, a pork butcher, of 170, Westminster Road—the elder prisoner made a purchase of me and gave rue a florin; it bent easily—I returned it to him, and told him it was bad; he left the shop, leaving the article on the counter, but taking the florin with him.
The prisoner Frederick. I did not know it was bad.
RICHARD WELLS . I am in the service of Henry Cole, a grocer, of Lambeth—on Saturday evening, the 15th January, I served the younger prisoner with some cheese; he gave me a florin—I passed it to Mr. Willis, who told the boy it was bad—he said that he got it from his father—he was given I into custody.
JEM JOCELYN (Policeman 116). I took the boy in custody, and asked him how he got the florin—he said "My father gave it to me; he got it from a butcher's shop—I have been to the shop twice for a 2s. piece, and I think they were good ones, as they had nice edges to them"—he gave his father's address, 6, Robert Street, and I found the elder prisoner there—I told him his son was charged with uttering counterfeit coin—I went upstairs and found this shilling (produced) at the bottom of a large box in the bedroom in his wife's presence—I told the prisoner I had found it; he said that Kis wife 'must have got it at the market—I found on him 16s. 9 1/2d.—on the remand the boy said "It is other people who have got my father into this trouble; he meets a man at a public-house in Union Street and gets a packet at a time; I have been there twice with my father and seen him receive them; I should know the man again if I saw him, but I do not know his name"—I produce three florins and a shilling.
prisoner called out "Albert, I want to speak to you; listen to what I have to say. Mind what you say to-morrow morning—say that your mother gave you the shilling"—I wrote that down at the time—"Your mother will be sure to be there and say the same. Be careful, or you'll get me put away. Stick to that"—he also said "All that money was good, because you saw pur father bite it. If they ask you anything else say you don't know. Stick to that; I know all the rest. Good night, Albert."
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You never said anything about his telling the truth.
Frederick Watkins statement before the Magistrate—"I have been in one place 14 years, and have a good character—I got into difficulties through my wife being so bad the last five years—I have no one to do anything for us—there are seven of us—a man gave me a few of these to get out of trouble with—I have my tools—I have only done it since Christmas."
The prisoner Frederick put in a written statement to the same effect.
F. WATKINS.— GUILTY .
Judgment respited. ALBERT WATKINS.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution, and C. MATHEWS. the Defence,
JOHN MANSELL . I am a waterman, of 3, Grove Cottages, Richmond—my brother goes by the name of Cocoa Mansell—his proper name is Henry—on 10th February, 1875, I was in charge of Mr. M'Dougall's house-boat, off the Pigeons, and left it safely locked up at 7 p.m.—there were fourteen rugs in it—I found it broken open next morning, and missed twelve of the rugs—I gave information at the station, and in the evening I saw Kettley at corner of King Street,'Richmond—he spoke first, and asked me if I had lost anything—I told him about the rugs, and he said that he had bought them of Thomas Mackinney for 2l. 15s. who had rowed them down Kew Bridge, and they carried them on their shoulders to his father's house—Seeley a constable was behind us, and I said "That is the man you had better talk to about it, it is out of my powern—on 12th February I went with Seeley to Kettley's father's honse at Gunners bury and saw Kettley there, who said that if we waited a minute or two, he would bring the rugs in a pony cart, and drive them to Richmond, he did so, and drove them to the police-station.
Cross-examined. He said that Mackinney told him that he bought them of some one at Laleham—there was no disguise about him—he spoke to the constable in my presence on my telling him to do so—this was a. year ago, I do not know whether he has remained at Gunnersbury ever since, as I Jive at Richmond.
WILLIAM SEELY (Detective B). On 11th February, 1875, I received in formation and made imquiries, and on that evening I" saw Kettley speaking to Mausell—Kettley then said to me "Seely, I believe you are inquiring about some rugs"—I said "Yes"—he said "I have got them"—I bought them of Tom Mackinney, he brought them down to Kew Bridge in a boat, and then went to my fathers house at Gunnersbury, and took them out of the boat, and carried them home on his shoulder, I met two or three policemen on the road, and we reached home, and I gave him 2l. 15s. For them"—he also said that he saw Mackinnery two or three nights previous
to that in Richmond, and bought one rug of him, I believe he said he gave 4s. 6d. for it—I believe he said that Mackinney bought them of a coachman at Laleham, and that that was when he got the twelve—I told him he had better go to the station, which he did, and made the same statement to the Serjeant on duty—he was told that when Mackinney was apprehended, he would have to come up and say how he came by the rugs we went to Gunnersbury, next morning saw Kettley, who said that if we waited a few minutes, he would have the rugs ready for us; he brought them in a pony cart and we took them to Richmond station.
Cross-examined. Kettley did everything he could to help me.
JOSEPH CONNOLLY . I am a French polisher of Saffron Hill—I saw Mackinney in February last, at the Crown public-house, kept by Mr. Kettley, he waited till Kettley came in, and then the three of us went towards Kew Bridge, where there was a boat lying on the Middlesex shore—it was dusk, between 8 and 9 o'clock" Mackinney got into boat and handed some rugs out—there was no conversation—we carried the rugs between us to Gunnersbury—two or three policeman met us on the road, one of whom said to Kettley "You are wrapped up rather warm"—as we went along Mackinney said that the rugs belonged to a coachman at Laleham—we took them from the house to the stable, and I saw Kettley pay him 2l. 10s.—there was no conversation—I was not there all the time; I went back to the bagatelle room.
JOHN JUDGE . I am a waterman, of Richmond—I know the prisoners—I saw them two or three times at the New Ship, Richmond, in January and February last—Mackinney was then out of work, but I saw him with two sovereigns a day or two before the robbery.
Cross-examined. It was before the robbery and he said that a gentleman had given him the money to lay out on a race for him.
CHARLES FENN . Iam a waterman and lighterman, of Richmond—I have known Kettley five or six years—he is a driver of carnages and flys—I heard of the loss of these rugs—I had before that once seen the prisoners together at the New Ship between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—I did not hear Kettley say a word.
Cross-examined. That was before the rugs were stolen.
MR. GRAIN proposed to call the prisoner Mackinney as a witness, but THE COURT considered that his evidence would be worthless without confirmation, and the Jury stated that they were satisfied.
KETTLEY— NOT GUILTY .
MACKINNEY— Twelve Month's Imprisonment.
MR. PURCELL conducted the Prosecution.
BERNARD GOLDSTEIN . I am a watchmaker, of 11, Wandsworth Road—about two or three months ago I bought a ticket of the prisoner for four tablespoons and a teaspoon for 2s. 6d., pawned at Mr. Hickenbotham's in in the name of George Derryman.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did not tell me that they did not belong to you but to a friend of yours—you did not say "How dare you take out my spoons V
duplicate of it to the prisoner, who I identify as pawning them—the "2" has now been altered to "4."
JOHN UNDERWOOD (Policeman L 11). I took the prisoner and charged him with altering the ticket—he said "I never sold the ticket"—I said "It is not only selling the ticket it is altering it"—he said "I know the tickets were altered, but not by me."
GUILTY — Twelve Month's Imprisonment.
There were three other indictments against the prisoner.
NOT GUILTY ,
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, FEBRUARY 28TH, 1876.