Old Bailey Proceedings, 20th September 1875.
Reference Number: t18750920
Reference Number: f18750920


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,










On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, September 20th, 1875, and following days,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. DAVID HENRY STONE, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir WILLIAM VENTRES FIELD , Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; The Hon. NATHANAEL LINDLEY , one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS , Esq., Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN , Knt., WILLIAM LAWRENCE , Esq., Sir BENJAMIN SAMUEL PHILLIPS , Knt., WILLIAM FERNELEY ALLEN , Esq., Sir JAMES CLARKE LAWRENCE , Bart., M.P., and ROBERT BESLEY , Esq., Aldermen of the said City; the Right Hon. RUSSELL GURNEY , Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; Sir CHARLES WHETHAM , Knt., one other of the Aldermen of the said City; and Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, September 20th, 1875.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-470

470. EDWARD VANDOYSEN (17) , Unlawfully by casting a stone at an engine, tender, and carriages on the London and North Western Railway, did injure the safety of certain persons then being thereon.

MR. COLLINS conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE CHEESEMAN (Policeman X 73). On 25th August, a little after 5 o'clock in the evening, I was on duty on the road leading to Acton from Willesden—the London and North Western Railway runs under a bridge, which crosses the road there—I saw the prisoner and three other young men there—I was about 15 yards from them—there was a passenger train going by—I saw the prisoner stoop down and pick up a stone from the side of the footway and throw it at the train that was passing, whether it hit or not I can't say—I immediately took the prisoner into custody—he said "I threw the stone over, but I did not intend to do any harm"—he was taken to the station, and I went off to the station-master—the other young men were waiting outside the station; I only took the one I saw throw the stone—the stone was about the size of an egg—I only saw him throw one.

Prisoner. The constable hit me and told me to go on, and then took me in custody. Witness. I did not hit him.

JOHN BEARE . I am station-master at the Willesden Junction—the Liver-Pool and Manchester express left Willesden Junction, at 5.12 on the 25th August, and would pass under the bridge mentioned by the constable—there were 200 passengers in the train—I afterwards saw the prisoner at the station; I was sent for—he admitted he had thrown the stone at the train, but not with the intention of injuring anyone.

EBENEZER MEAD (Police Sergeant X 22). I was on duty at the station; I saw the prisoner there and told him I should detain him until the railway company had told me whether they meant to prosecute or not—he said "I am very sorry; I did throw two stones, one at a passenger train, and one at a goods train, but I did not mean to do any harm."

The Prisoner in his defence stated that he was with three friends on the bridge and picked up two small stones, which he dropped, one on a goods train, and one on a passenger train, but not with the intention of doing any harm.

GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of his youth, and there being no intention to do any harm. He received a good character— Four Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-471

471. JOHN PINKNEY (26), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully and maliciously breaking a pane of glass, the property of Rigby Davies Smith, having been before convicted**— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-472

472. FREDERICK JOHN EWINS (19) and WILLIAM HENRY HART (19),. to feloniously uttering a forged order for 157l., with intent to defraud— Eight Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18750920-473

473. CHARLES NICHOLLS (34) , to three indictments for having feloniously removed 54 stamps of the value of 2s. from certain documents with intent that use should be made of the same— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.] And

Reference Number: t18750920-474

474. SIDNEY JAMES STREET (20), and CHARLES ALGAR (20) , to stealing three blank cheques, the property of Walter Cheeseman. [Pleaded guilty: see original trial image.]

STREET also PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering three cheques for the payment of 50l. and 11l. 15s., and 15l., with intent to defraud. ALGAR was recommended to mercy by the prosecutor. STREET Five Years' Penal Servitude. ALGAR— Three Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Monday, September, 20th, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-475

475. ALFRED DENT (23) , Feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. CHARLES MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR BENJAMIN MORGAN . I keep the Old Red Lion public-house, 72,. High Holborn—on 16th August, at 9 p.m., I served the prisoner with. 2d. worth of gin, he tendered a florin which I tested and broke—I said "I shall detain you, this is bad"—he rushed out of the house—I pursued him. up Red Lion Street, into Eagle Street, where some roughs stopped me and prevented my following him—five or six minutes afterwards I received information and went to 10, Leigh Street, where I saw the prisoner in the passage with seven or eight other men, and I recognised him at once—I said "You are the man who passed a bad florin, and I charge you"—I have not the slightest doubt as to the identity of the prisoner—I gave him in custody with the florin.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. My sister and my barman were in the bar besides myself—they are not here—I am confident you are the man—I recognise your face and figure—when I charged you you said you were not the man—a friend came down to Hunter Street police-station with me—he said he had taken three florins the week previously, but he could not recognise you.

THOMAS SCOTCHER NUNN . I live at 11, Leigh Street, Red Lion square, and my niece Jives nest door—I have retired from business—my niece came to me and said there was a man in the yard—I went into the yard and saw a man scaling the wall—he got on the water closet—I demanded him to come down—he said "It's all right, don't make a noise"—he dropped over into No. 9—I went round immediately and met him near the Street door—I seized him, took him into No. 10, and sent for a policeman—he said that he had been in a row in Lincoln's Inn Fields, and I said "I can see no relation between that and your being in my yard," and then he stated that he had passed a bad shilling, and he hoped I should let him off—I gave him into, custody.

WILLIAM MANTON (Policeman E 43). On 16th August I was called to 10, Leigh Street, about 9.20—I saw Mr. Nunn in the passage holding the prisoner—I asked the prisoner what brought him there, he said that he had had a row with two fellows in Lincoln's Inn Fields, and he ran into the house—in the meantime some people were speaking about a shilling which he had passed, and I said "Is that true, have you passed a bad shilling?" and he said "Yes"—Mr. Morgan came in and identified him as passing the florin—he was given into custody—the florin was given to me by Mr. Morgan—I took the prisoner to the station and searched him, and found four half-crowns, six shillings, two sixpences, and a halfpenny, all good.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This a bad florin.

The prisoner in his defence stated that he had a quarrel with a friend in Lincoln's Inn Fields and ran into (the house in Leigh Street, as he thought his friend was following him.


He also PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted of uttering counterfeit coin in October, 1873— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-476

476. MARY CRAWLEY (50), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CHARLES MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM EADY . I am manager to Caroline Morgan who keeps the Three Tuns, High Street, Whitechapel—on 2nd September, about 1 o'clock, the prisoner came in and called for half a pint of half-and-half—she gave me 6d. which I placed on the money board—there were three other sixpences there—I had cleared the money three or four minutes before, and had left three sixpences on it—I gave the prisoner 5d. change, and she went out—about five minutes afterwards I was called from dinner by Bass, and saw the prisoner in front of the counter—Bass made a communication to me and I told the prisoner she was evidently the same woman who had passed the two sixpences, and I should detain her and give her in custody for uttering counterfeit coin—when Bass came into me ray attention was called to the sixpence the prisoner had previously tendered, and he said "Here is a bad sixpence this woman has given me"—I held the two sixpences up and said "How do you account for these two bad sixpences"—she said "Let me go, here is a shilling"—I said "No"—she said "Do, here is eighteen pence, now will you let me go?"—I said "No, I shall detain you till I send for a constable"—she was off towards the door, and it was with great difficulty that we detained her—I handed the coins to the constable—we have no till, the money is placed on a shelf.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. When you came in you were in about the same state of excitement, and when I called for a policeman you got red in the face, and it was with the greatest difficulty we could hold you—you were not drunk.

WALTER BASS . I am barman at the Three Tuns—on September 2nd about 1 o'clock I came into the bar, when Mr. Eady went to his dinner—I noticed a bad sixpence on the money board when I turned to get change for a florin—I spoke to Mr. Eady, and on returning I found the prisoner in front of the bar—she asked for half a pint of id. ale, and tendered a sixpence, and I saw it had just the same date on it as the other—I went to Mr. Eady, and he came into the bar and said "You are the woman I served here just now," and he held the two sixpences up, and said "You must be the woman I served here just now, and I have taken one before this"—she threw down a shilling, and wanted him to let her go—she was

not intoxicated—she offered a shilling for the two sixpences, and then she put down another sixpence—both the shilling and sixpence were good—a constable was sent for—we had hard work to hold her till the constable came—she said "Let me alone, and I will stand still"—I let her alone and she put something in her mouth—I held her hands again till a policeman came—I then went to the station and charged her.

Prisoner. I had a biscuit in my hand—you had no right to serve me, I was speechless drunk.

JOHN AYRES (Policeman H 96). I was called to the Three Tuns, and found the prisoner detained there—I took her into custody and charged her—she said that she was sorry, she did not know she had them on her—she was very violont on the way to the station—I saw her take her hand from the front of her and put it to her mouth—I afterwards noticed the action of swallowing—I put my fingers into her mouth directly, and she bit me—she put her hand up to her mouth in the same manner a second time, and there was the action of swallowing—I took her by the throat then and held her till she was almost choked—I produce two counterfeit sixpences, and a shilling and a sixpence which Mr. Eady handed to me.

Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate that you were drunk—when I went into the house you did not appear so drunk as I found you were going to the station—as soon as you got out of the house you became very violent.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two sixpences are bad, and from the same mould—the other two coins are good.

Prisoner's Defence. I was very drunk, and was not aware of anything of the sort. I don't know what change I had in my hand. I am very sorry for what I have done.


She was further charged with having been before convicted.

CHARLES CUFF (Policeman H 186). I produce a certificate. (This stated that on April 8th, 1872, at this Court, Mary Crawley was convicted of uttering a counterfeit shilling, and was ordered to be imprisoned eighteen months and five years police supervision.) I was present at the trial—the prisoner was the person—she was in my custody, and I gave evidence against her.

JOHN LEE (Policeman H 42). I was at this Court on April 8th, 1872, when the prisoner was tried for uttering counterfeit coin—I proved a previous conviction against her at that time in the name of Eliza Williams—she is the same person.

Prisoner. I never saw the constable in my life. I was never locked up. This is my first offence. I was never convicted before.

GUILTY.— Five Years' Penal servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-477

477. WILLIAM ROGERS (64) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. CHARLES MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN FIELDER . I keep the Bird in Hand, London Road, Bromley—on 23rd August, about 9.45, I was in the bar parlour and the barmaid brought me a shilling—I said that it was bad, gave it back to her, went into the bar and found sharp there (see next case)—he said to him "This shilling is bad"—he said "I beg pardon, I am sorry," and tendered a good sixpence—the bad shilling was returned to him and he went away—I went outside and saw him join a man darkly dressed, but I do not recognise the prisoner—I pointed them out to Basson.

EMILY KILLDUFF . I am barmaid at the Bird in Hand—on 3rd August, about 9.45 a.m., I served sharp with 1 1/2 d. worth of gin—he gave me 1s.—I took it to my master, and then returned and told Sharpe that it was bad—he said "I beg your pardon, I am very sorry"—he gave me 6d.—I returned him the shilling and he left.

LOUISA CODLING . I am assistant at a confectioners, 622, Mile End Road—on 23rd August I served sharp with a 2d. loaf—he gave me 1s., which I put in the till and gave him a 6d. and 4d.—a constable afterwards made a communication to me—I went to the till and found only one shilling there and that was bad—I gave it to the constable.

GEORGE BASSON (Policeman K 63). On 23rd August I was with sergeant Vickery near the Bird in Hand, and Fielder pointed out two persons to us—they walked towards Mile End Gate and we kept opposite to them on the other side of the way for half a mile—they were talking the whole distance—sharp, who was one of them, went into the confectioner's and we waited outside, and as he came out I went in and spoke to Louisa Couling, and this shilling (produced) was given to me—I then followed sharp and told him I should take him into custody for attempting to pass counterfeit coin to Mr. Fielder and Miss Couling; he said "All right"—I took him back to the shop, searched him, and found a sixpence and 4d.—the prisoner is the man who was walking with Sharp—I did not lose sight of him till I went into the shop—I afterwards took him in custody.

JAMES VICKERY (Police sergeant K 54.) On 23rd August, about 9.45 I followed sharp and Rogers to the confectioner's and saw sharp go in—I kept Rogers in sight—he went on 100 yards and halted at a butcher's shop—I stood on the opposite side and saw him take some white coins from his waistcoat pocket, which he wrapped in a piece of newspaper—he kept glancing in the direction of the confectioner's shop where Sharp was—Basson then held his hand up to me arrangement, and I crossed the road to Rogers—when Rogers saw Basson take hold of sharp he quickened his pace away from me and put his hand into his left hand waistcoat pocket—I caught hold of him and said "Wait a minute, come back with me"—I felt in his coat pocket, but found it was only a hole—I said "What you have done with those coins?"—he then became very violent, but with the assistance of another constable I took him to the baker's shop, searched him, and found on him three good sixpences and 1s. 8d. in bronze.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This" shilling is bad.

The prisoner in his defence stated that that he was innocent, and that the officers had got up the case against him.


Reference Number: t18750920-478

478. WILLIAM ROGERS (64), was again indicted with GEORGE SHARP (62) , for unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. C. MATHEWS, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against Rogers, the evidence being the same as in the last case.


JOHN FIELDER, EMILY KILLDUFF, LOUISA COULING, GEORGE BASSON, JAMES VICKERY , and WILLIAM WEBSTER repeated their former evidence as far as it related to Sharp.

Sharp's Defence. I don't recollect being in the house at all.

SHARP— GUILTY **— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-479

479. SAMUEL TAYLOR (28), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. C. MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. W. SLEIGH the Defence.

WILLIAM LEWIS . I am a coachman, at 7, Elizabeth Street, Pimlico—on

11th August, I sold the prisoner some hay bands, which came to 6d., he gave me 1s., I put it in my pocket and gave him the change—I had no other money, and had to borrow the change for him—a man spoke to me and I found the shilling was bad and gave it to a policeman who went with me to the mews where the prisoner was and gave him in charge—he said "For God's sake don't give me in charge; I am a ruined man; I have a wife and a large family; I have been led into this."

Cross-examined. I think he said "led" into it, and not "let"—if he said "let" he spluttered—he might be excusing himself—the policeman did not urge me to give him in custody; he asked me whether I was going to give him in custody or not, and I said "Yes"—I said "Can't you take him?"—I said "No, not unless you give him in custody," and I gave him in custody—that was from three to five minutes after he gave me the shilling—he was buying more hay bands and was waiting for me to give him change for the shilling.

WILLIAM STANTON . I am a coachman in Eccleston Mews, five or six weeks previous to the prisoner being given in charge; he came to me to buy some hay bauds, it came to 6d.—he gave me a florin—I said I had no change, but I will go down the Street and get it—he objected to that and I asked my wife for 1s. 6d., which I gave him, and about ten minutes afterwards he left—the florin did not leave my hand; I took it to a public-house, and the barmaid said that it was bad—I took it back and threw it on the dunghill, because I felt ashamed that I was so bested—the dusthole has been emptied about five times since that—I am quite certain that the prisoner is the man.

Cross-examined. I picked him out from four others—the policeman did not take me aside and say something to me, when I was going into the yard to identify the prisoner—he did not go up to the prisoner and look him straight in the face; I swear that—he went into the yard where the prisoner was and left me round the corner; he then beckoned to me to go into the yard—there were four or five men there—I did not go up to another man, before I went up to the prisoner and look at him, and say "I think that is him"—I did not go up to another person before I picked out the prisoner—I went up with my hand up all along the line—I do not remember the policeman saying as my hand pointed to the prisoner "That is the man you wan't"—he did not point to him and say so; I swear that positively—he did not point out any of the five—I was walking with the policeman on, I think, Sunday, in Warwick Street—I was in his company five or ten minutes; we were talking about something which has nothing to do with this case—he did not tell me that, when the prisoner was being led to the cells—he said "You scoundrel for serving me like this, when the girl picked out another"—he never told me that the prisoner called him a scoundrel—I don't recollect seeing the policeman since that—he came and said that he would call on me, and he called on a Sunday—I saw him yesterday evening, when he came to tell me what time to come here this morning, but he was only at my house five minutes.

Re-examined. To the best of my belief I have only seen the policeman twice—there was no arrangement before I went to the police-court, that the prisoner should be pointed out to me.

HUGH CARSON (Policeman B 417,). On the 11th August Lewis gave the prisoner into my custody—I told him it was for uttering a counterfeit shilling—he began to cry and said "I am a ruined man, for God's sake

don't charge me, I have a wife and family"—he offered to give the prosecutor anything he liked not to charge him and offered him a good sixpence—I searched him at the station and found three half-crowns, two florins, two shillings, two sixpences, 5 1/2 d. in bronze, and a key.

Cross-examined. I have seen Stanton two or three times since the committal as I was going to and from duty—I remember seeing her in Warwick Street, but do not believe I was with her half an hour—I did not tell her in Warwick Street that I should go round to her house on Sunday—I was there yesterday to tell her to come here, but was only there five minutes or it might be a little more—I went just inside the stable door—the prisoner did not use threatening language to me going to the cells, I should have remembered it if he had—I do not remember that he called me a scoundrel, but I will not swear what he said when he was inside the cell—he uttered some words at my back, but I did not hear them distinctly e—when Stanton went down to identify the prisoner I called him and told him that now he could see the man—I did not go nearer to the prisoner than to the other two men—a man who cleans the cells was I believe among the five men—Stanton did not go up to some men before he went up to the prisoner—he said "That is the man"—I said "Where?"—he said "There"—I said "Go forward to him"—I did not see his hand lifted up—I got the shilling from the inspector not from the prosecutor—I was not sent to investigate as to how the prisoner got the two sixpences which were found on him.

Re-examined. I was out of Court when Stanton was examined—he was placed round a corner in the station yard while we were marshalling the prisoners, he could not see us—I was present when Stanton handed the shilling to the inspector, I received it from him—the prisoner said at the station that he got the two sixpences from a greengrocer—the sergeant said nothing about investigating the matter that I heard.

Witness for the Defence.

JOHN MITCHELL . I am a cleaner at Westminster police-station and have been so for seven years—on 23rd August I was placed with the prisoner and other men, Stanton then came in and picked out one man and then he said "That is not the man," and then he came and picked me out and said "That is the man"—the prisoner then fell out—Stanton afterwards said that I was not the man and then he picked out the prisoner—he had then rejected two—Carson was there, but I never heard him speak except to say "see if you can pick out the man"—I have no doubt about his picking out me and another man before he picked the prisoner out.

Cross-examined. I was not called before the Magistrate, I was in the neighbourhood of the court, I gave no information because I was not aware that it was important and "I forgot it, but when he came to speak about the man with the hay bands and the counterfeit shilling it came to my memory directly by my being picked out—the prisoner might have been two below me, we were in a row like soldiers—I was not told to stand among the men, but I generally do it—Stanton said "That is the man there," pointing out the one before me; afterwards he said "No, that is not the man," and came up farther and pointed to me. and said "That is him," and then he said "No, that is him," pointing to the prisoner—there were two rejected before he came to the prisoner; no communication passed between him and the constable—he looked at the faces of all before he made any selection—the conversation between me and Dutton was ten

days or a fortnight ago—he said "I want to see you Mitchell about that case of the hay bands;" I had not then heard of the prisoner in connection with hay bands—I never had any conversation with the prisoner about it and had never seen him before and had no knowledge who he was—I knew what he was charged with, he had been a week remanded, it was giving a bad shilling for some hay bands and therefore I connected the prisoner with the shilling.

Re-examined. I clean the cells, and cannot be off knowing what the men are charged with.

By THE GUILTY. There might be five, six, or seven men—I was the last but one at the top end, and Stanton began at the other end, he picked out the last, and I was the last but one—he said "That is the man"—that was the man at the further end from me—he was standing as far off as you are from me, and I saw who he looked at—he never touched the man, and he was not as near to the next man as he was to me—he stood in front of me, he did not touch me—he said "No, that is not the man," and looked at the prisoner, and said "That is the man."

THOMAS DURDEN DUTTOX . I live at 40, Churton Street, Pimlico—I received a communication from the prisoner's wife, and saw him in Newgate—he made a communication to me, and I sent for Mitchell.


Reference Number: t18750920-480

480. CHARLES FORDIER (33), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing two printed books, value 3l. 13s. 6d., of Richard Stevens and others, having been previously convicted**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. And

Reference Number: t18750920-481

481. CHRISTIAN BAINTON (38), and THOMAS FELL (34), to embezzling the sum of 311l. 18s. 9d., also the sum of 50l. and 42l. 8s. 6d., also to stealing 4,000l., the monies of Henry William Ripley and another— Five Years' Penal servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, September 21st, 1875.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-482

482. GEORGE HOWELL (36) and FLORENCE GRANVILLE (19) , stealing a portmanteau and other articles of Robert Bickersteth. Second Count—Feloniously receiving the same.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution; and MR. F. H. LEWIS Defended Granville.

HENRY LAMB . I am a porter at the Midland Hotel—on Monday, 19th July, I saw Howell there between 10 and 11 o'clock in the morning—he asked me to take charge of two portmanteaus until the following Monday—he put his name on them, on the label "Registered for Richards, Manchester"—I put them in charge of the Midland cloak-room until he came for them—on Sunday, 1st August, Mr. Bickersteth came to the cloak-room and identified one of the portmanteaus—I went with him next day to the Great Northern Railway with the portmanteau, and afterwards took it I back and replaced it in the cloak-room.

RICHARD WILLIAMS . I am chief inspector of police on the Great Northern Railway—on 13th July, a communication was made to me respecting the loss of two portmanteaus belonging to Mr. Bickersteth and Mr. Brand on the way between King's Cross and Sheffield—inquiry was made, but we did not find them—on 13th and 14th July the Nottingham and Sheffield passengers would travel by the 8.30 train from King's Cross

as far as Grantham on the same line—Retford is between Grantham and Sheffield—on 2nd August, Mr. Bickersteth came to me with a Midland porter and a portmanteau, it was not unlocked—Mr. Bickersteth unlocked it—among the contents there was a pair of trousers, a pair of patent leather boots, which Mr. Bickersteth identified—he also identified the portmanteau as the one he had lost—there were four pairs of socks in the portmanteau marked "H. R. B.," and two bottles of sherry—I took the the things out of the portmanteau and sent it back to the Midland Hotel, giving instructions to Thorogood—about 7 o'clock on the evening of the 5th August, Howell was brought to my office—I asked him his name and address—he took this card from the portmanteau and wrote this on it, Fern Lodge, Althorpe Road—I found there a quantity of property, which is here—his wife was there.

WILLIAM THOROGOOD . I am a detective officer in the service of the Great Northern Railway Campany—on Monday morning, 2nd August, I received instructions from Mr. Williams, in consequence of which I watched the cloak-room of the Midland Hotel, where I had previously seen the port-manteau deposited—on the evening of 5th August, about 6.40, Howell came there; I saw this portmanteau and another one given to him—I asked him if the two portmanteaus belonged to him—he said "Yes"—I said "Will you look at them again, and be quite sure that they are your property"—he looked at them again and said "Oh yes, they belong to me—I said "I am an officer of the Great Northern Railway, you must consider yourself in custody, and you will be charged with stealing this brown leather portmanteau—he said "Oh nonsense, I did not steal it"—I said "There is another portmanteau"—he said "Yes, you are quite right, there were two"—he said that he had bought them of a man at Nottingham in the race week, for 5l. 10s.—he did not know the man's name or address, but he knew him very well by meeting him at different races—he said he had been a cattle dealer—I took him to Mr. Williams' office and gave him into custody—on Saturday 7th August, I watched the House of Detention where Howell was—I saw his wife and another woman come first and enter, and soon after I saw Granville; I said to her "Are you waiting to go and see Howell?"—she said "Yes"—I said "You will not be able to see him to day, because his wife has just gone in"—I then asked where she was stopping—she said at No. 9, Derby Street—I told her if she would go to the top of the Street and wait there for a few minutes, I would come and speak to her—about a quarter of an hour afterwards. I went to where I told her to wait, but she was gone—I then went to No. 9, Derby Street, in a cab—I saw the landlady, went upstairs and found Granville—I saw a portmanteau—I asked Granville who it belonged to—she said it belonged to her husband—I had previously told her who I was, and said "I shall have to take these portmanteaus away, for I have every reason to believe they have been stolen, and she said "Oh dear me no, I am sure you have made a great mistake, for he is no thief, it is his own portmanteau"—the portmanteau was locked—I asked Granville if that was the only room they occupied; she said "Yes"—I asked her if there was any more property in the room besides these portmanteaus belonging to Howell—she said "In that chest of drawers you will find his underclothing, and it all belongs to him, that I know"—I searched the drawers and found some under clothing belonging to Howell and some under clothing belonging to a Mr. Arden and Colonel Adair—I called Granville's attention to the fact of those names

being on them, and said "I shall have to take them away"—she said she did not know they were there, she thought they all belonged to Howell—I found several cheque books in the portmanteau, one was identified by Mr. Bickersteth—I found a set of studs and a carbuncle pin with a diamond, which was identified by Mr. Bickersteth.

Cross-examined. Until I ascertained the address from Granville, I had 110 notion that Howell lived at 9, Derby Street—she assisted me in making the search; she said she became acquainted with Howell since last Christmas.

JOHN REYNOLDS . I am servant to Mr. Henry Robert Brand, of 14, Granville Place, Portman Square—on 12th July he left London for Sheffield—I saw his portmanteau packed—this carbuncle pin is his.

ROBERT BICKERSTETH . I live at the Palace, Ripon, Yorkshire—on 12th July I was a passenger by the 8.30 train from King's Cross to Sheffield—at King's Cross I handed my luggage over to a porter, I saw part of it labelled; portmanteau was part of the luggage—this (produced) is it—I missed it at Retford—it contained the articles mentioned—I complained to the officials—I heard nothing more of it till Sunday, 1st August—on that day I went to the Midland to claim some luggage and there I saw my lost portmanteau, I gave information to the police at King's Cross—I have since been shown several articles that were in the portmanteau, which I identified—this cheque book is mine, also these brushes, studs, trousers, and boots.

HENRY ROBERT BRAND . I live at 14, Granville Place, Portman square—on 12th July I was a passenger by the 8.30 train from King's Cross to Sheffield—I had with me a portmanteau containing various articles—on arriving at Retford I missed it, and have never seen it since—I identify this pin and other things; they were in my trunk when I lost it, besides two bottles of sherry.

WILLIAM THOROGOOD (re-called). Howell said that he was a betting man and a cattle dealer as well—he said he bad been a gentleman's servant—Mr. Brand's socks were found in another portmanteau at Derby Street, also the studs and carbuncle pin.

MARYHA MILLS . I am a widow, and live at 9, Derby Street; I let apartments—in July last a woman named Fanny Kemp occupied my back room first floor—she left about the 20th of July; she left three boxes, two full and one empty—the lock of the empty box was broken—on 2nd August I let the front room first floor to the female prisoner—there is a folding door communicating from the front room to the back, in which Mrs. Kemp's boxes were—on 20th August she called to take her boxes away; the female prisoner hired the front room in the name of Mr. and Mrs. Howell, and paid me 2s. deposit—I did not see the male prisoner—a man came each night after I was gone to bed, but I never saw him—I afterwards saw the empty box partly tilled; I saw a coat, waistcoat, and trousers in it—they were afterwards taken away by Thorogood.

Cross-examined. I went to bed just on 12 o'clock—the female prisoner let the man in; she had a latch key—I found that the bed had been' occupied by two persons—I cleaned the man's boots two mornings—he did not go out before I was up—I took their breakfast upstairs, but I did not see him there; I never saw him before to-day—I have no servant; I do all myself.

Howell in his defence alleged that he had purchased the portmanteaus and their contents for 81. from a man named Graham or Walker, with whom he became acquainted at Bristol races, and that he was entirely innocent of the theft and of any knowledge of the things being stolen.

RICHARD WILLIAMS (re-examined). The property in Mr. Bickersteth's portmanteau was worth 62l. 19s., and Mr. Brand's 20l. odd.

HOWELL— GUILTY of receiving.


Reference Number: t18750920-483

483. GEORGE HOWELL and FLORENCE GRANVILLE were again indicted for stealing a portmanteau, a pair of shoes, and other articles, of Reginald Arden. Second Count—Receiving the same.

MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution.

REGINALD ARDEN . I am a clerk in the West of England Bank—on 31st July I came from Exeter by the train arriving at Paddington at 10.20—amongst other luggage I had a portmanteau; it was labelled and put in the luggage van—when I arrived in London I could not find it; I gave information, and on 13th August I saw it and some articles of wearing apparel—Detective King showed them to me—I have seen the property now in Court; I value it at 20l.

HARRIET PURT . I live at 39, Euston Road—I am the daughter of the landlady—on the Tuesday before 2nd August the two prisoners came to lodge there as man and wife in the name of Howell—they stayed a week and left on 2nd August—when they were leaving the female prisoner sold my mother this portmanteau and articles of clothing for 3l. 5s.—I did not notice at the time that they were marked with the name of Arden, not till afterwards—she said they belonged to her husband.

JAMES KING (Detective). On 10th August I went to 39, Euston Road, and received from the landlady the things produced, a pair of shoes, two sheets, four pairs of socks, nine pocket handkerchiefs, two razors, and a strop—all the linen is marked Arden—I went there from information I received from Thorogood.

WILLIAM THOROGOOD . I searched the male prisoner and found on him this card with the address "Fern Lodge, Althorpe Road"—I also found on him a handkerchief marked Arden.

REGINALD ARDEN (re-examined). This handkerchief was in my portmanteau.

Howell in his defence stated that he received this portmanteau from Graham, with whom he was about to engage himself as clerk, and to whom he had advanced 50l. that the articles in question were given to him by Graham in part payment of that advance.

HOWELL— GUILTY of Receiving — Eight Years' Penal servitude.


There was three other indictments against the prisoners upon which no evidence was offered as to Granville—Inspector Williams stated that two cheques from the cheque-books contained in the portmanteau had been filled up for the sums of 90l. and 70l. and passed by Howell in the country markets.

Reference Number: t18750920-484

484. JAMES MAY (59) , Embezzling the sums of 12l. 10s., 15l., and 15l. received on account of the Nant-y-Ronen Silver Lead Mining Company, Limited.

MR. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution; and MR. STRAIGHT the Defence.

MITCHEL FREETH . I am clerk in the office of the Registrar of Joint stock Companies—I produce the original documents in relation to the registration of the Nant-y-Ronen silver Lead Mining Company—the articles of association are registered on 16th May, 1874, and the certificate of registration is the same date—the. defendant appears as a purchaser and a subscriber of five shares.

THOMAS ALLEN THOMPSON . I am a potato merchant, of 20 and 49, Tooley Street—I am one of the directors of this company—I was a director in June, 1874—I know the prisoner's handwriting—I produce the minute book of the company—there is a minute of 16th June, 1874, that is not in the prisoner's writing; I can't say that it was made in his presence—he attended a meeting on that day; an arrangement was entered into with him at that meeting appointing him secretary; it was reduced into writing and he had it to copy and some one on his behalf copied it—the resolution was that each of us, the directors and secretary, was to give his services gratuitously till such time as the mine should become a dividend paying one—the prisoner accepted the office of secretary; and it was arranged at that meeting that he should receive a shilling as a registration fee—he then entered into the service of the company and acted as secretary, from 14th May till 27th July, 1875—on 2nd September, 1874, the following minute is in the prisoner's writing: "It is further resolved that as no salary has yet been fixed for the secretary, that a cheque for 3l. 3s. be drawn in his favour as a gratuity"—he received that cheque which was duly honoured—on 24th March, 1875, this minute was in the prisoner's writing: "The secretary, having again applied for a salary, it was proposed that a cheque for 3l. 3s. be drawn in his favour as a gratuity, and should the mine prove to be a dividend paying one, then the services, past and future of the secretary shall undergo a fair consideration at the hands of the directors"—he received that three guineas—if money was sent to the office his duty was to pay it into the National Provincial Bank of England on behalf of the company—that was told to him—the company had an account at that bank—in February, 1875, a call was made—this (produced) is the printed form of call sent out by the prisoner—he kept the cash book and all the books of the company—the business was carried on at 184, Palmerstone Buildings, Bishopsgate Street—he had some one in the office, but in what capacity I can't say; he was not employed by the company—the last meeting of the directors before 27th July, 1875, was on 24th March—the cash book was always laid before the directors at their meetings; it was always kept by the prisoner—there is no entry on 23rd April of a sum of 12l. 10s. received from Mr. Mackenzie—there is an entry on 8th April of two sums of 6l. 5s. and 12l. 10s.—there is no entry on 17th May; on the 31st there is an entry of 15l. from M. H. Aschin—the bankers' book is here—the last amount paid in is on 21st May—neither of these sums have been paid over to the directors, or accounted for—these three receipts and the letter on the back of one are the prisoner's writing—the directors did not, that I am aware of, give orders for that letter to be written to Mr. Mackenzie—the endorsement on this cheque is the prisoner's writing—between 24th March and 27th July the prisoner came to me representing that we wanted money to pay the labour in Wales, I told him that knowing Mr. Mackenzie and Mr. Aschin, and being in the same line of business as myself, I should call on them for money, he begged me not to do so; he said it would place him in such a position, as secretary it was his duty to have money either sent to him at the office that he would relieve me of the trouble, being largely engaged in business, and he would go himself—in consequence of that I did not go—it was on the meeting of 27th July that I first discovered these entries in the cash book—May did not attend that meeting—no meeting was called between 24th March and 27th July because the directors were living very far distant

from May, and having but little cash in hand, and very little business doing, it was considered unnecessary to call them together, and they left the case in my hands to give directions to the secretary according to the report I received from him when the next meeting should be called—there had been no agreement entered into by the directors and May about paying him a salary, except what I have read—on 27th July he sent in this letter, making a claim for services rendered. (Read: "I beg to enclose you my account against the company for salary up to the present time, showing a balance due to me of 30l. 17s., and as I am much in need of a little money I shall feel greatly obliged if you would make arrangements to let me have a cheque this week.") That enclosed an account for salary for 13 months at 6 guineas a week, 81l. 15s., and credit is given for two sums of 3 guineas and for balance of cash in hand, 44l. 15s., and balance due, 30l. 17s.—I attended every meeting of the directors—that was the first I heard of any claim for salary.

Cross-examined. This company was not a project of my own—I took some Welch take notes, and upon those it was incumbent on the purchaser to bring the matter into a company—the company was launched by myself, my brothers, May, and two others—I—was one of the promoters—I became acquainted with May about twelve months before the company was formed, about May, 1873—the company was registered in May, 1874—they had an office, one room—the rent was 30l. a year—the total amount the prisoner received was 6 guineas and about 2l. 10s. for postage—I think the directors met every month except from March to July—he did not insist at every meeting upon having some salary—the minute of 24th March says "The secretary having again applied," but I think May put that in; I don't think it was in the motion—he had certainly said in the September previous that he should like a small salary—it would be on the cash book that he would have to account to the company for any money he received—the sums we. charge him with embezzling are entered in the cash book, but not on the dates when he received them—he has put on the other side 7l. 15s., the amount of rent for the office which he paid—he paid that out of the money he received—he had received 52l. 10s.—he received two sums of 5l. from Mr. Mesurier, 12l. 10s. from Mackenzie, and 30l. from Aschin—the quarter's rent is entered on 26th May, for which he had a cheque, which he never paid in, but paid cash, what has become of the cheque I know not—it has never been paid into the bank, I stopped it—the shares of the company were 25,000 of 1l. each—the shilling fee to the prisoner was on the transfer from one person to another—I don't know how many transfers there were, very few—926 shares have been taken up by the public; I can't say how many of those have been transferred—in this mouth the directors were of opinion that the affairs of the company were in a critical state, and they suspended all operations—that was in consequence of the failure of the public to subscribe sufficient capital to go on—I don't think I stated before the Magistrate about my conversation with the prisoner about Mr. Mackenzie.

ALEXANDER MACKENZIE . I am one of the firm of A. G. H. Mackenzie, of 34, Great Northern Potato Market, King's Cross—I was a shareholder in this mining company—I received this letter either on 8th or 9th March (Read from the prisoner to the witness: "Dear Sir,—The directors having made a final call of 5s. per share on all the unpaid shares in this company, I beg to acquaint you that the amount due on your 25 shares is 6l. 5s.,

will thank you to pay into the National Provincial Bank to the credit of the company, at the same time please send enclosed receipt.") I believe I had before receiving that letter received a printed form of call similar to these—two calls were made—after receiving this letter May called on me—he wanted 12l. 10s. for my own and my brother's calls—I gave him this cheque for 12l. 10s.—I crossed it myself—he gave me this receipt; I saw him write it—the cheque was duly honoured.

FREDERICK ASCHIN . I am greengrocer of 7, Cable Street, Whitechapel—I am shareholder in this mining company—I received a printed letter for calls, and on 17th July, the prisoner called—he said the company was short of money—he did not ask for any particular sum; I paid him 15l. on account of my shares, and he gave me this receipt—on 31st May, he called again and I paid him 15l., and he gave me this receipt.

Cross-examined. At one time when he called, he brought a letter from Mr. Thompson—my son and I had each 100 shares—I had paid 80l., about 120l. was still due—I paid the prisoner in cash.

WILLIAM FREDERICK WATERWORTH . I am a licensed victualler at Bishopsgate Street Within—I have an account at the National Provincial Bank—the prisoner called on me about 20th April last—I knew him—he asked me to give him change for a cheque which he produced—it was crossed and payable to order—I gave him 6l. 6s. in cash and an open cheque for the remainder, and he gave me this cheque for 12l. 10s.—it was endorsed by him at the time he gave it to me—I paid the cheque into my own account at the National Provincial Bank—he said he had no banking account, and it was a crossed cheque and he required the money—it is a common thing in our trade to change cheques.

GEORGE RHODES . I am a clerk at the National Provincial Bank—the Nant-y-Ronen Mining Company, have an account there, and had in April, May, and June, 1875—I have the account here—there was no 15l. paid into the account on 31st May, or subsequently; or on the 17th July—my ledger only goes so far as 30th June—I am prepared to swear there has been no money received to the credit of the company since that time—there was a sum of 12l. 10s. paid in subsequently to the 23rd April, but it was not the cheque which has been produced in court—it was a cheque drawn on the North Kent Bank, Blackheath Branch—those three cheques were never paid in.

The Prisoner received a good character. Recommended to mercy by the Jury and the Directors— Three Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-485

485. JOHN WALKER (47), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing whilst employed in the post-office, four post-letters containing 163 postage stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General— Five Years' Penal servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-486

486. FRANK TILLETT (20) , to two indictments for stealing several sums of James Eglington Anderson Gwynne, his master—The prisoner received a good character, but MR. M. WILLIAMS, for the prosecution stated that he had robbed his master over a period of two years of something like 1,200l.— Five Years' Penal servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

Reference Number: t18750920-487

487. GEORGE THOMPSON WILKINSON (33) , to two indictments for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences 1l., a flannel shirt, and other articles from Annie Driscoll; 2s. from Ann Bennett, and 6s. from Louisa Blake, with intent to defraud— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

OLD COURT—Wednesday, September 22nd, 1975.

Before Mr. Justice Field.

Reference Number: t18750920-488

488. JOSEPH STONESTREET (18) and JOSEPH DRINKWATER (17), were indicted for the wilful murder of a woman whose name is unknown.

MESSRS. POLAND and BEASLEY conduced the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLY the Defence.

EDMUND GEORGE ROBINSON . I live at Southall—I am a gardener in the employment of Dr. Stewart, of that place—on the Thursday morning, 29th July last, about 445, I was proceeding to my work at Dr. Stewart's,—which is in North Road; it is the next house to the Elms on the left-hand side, it is called the Shrubberies—(referring to a plan) the carriage door is just opposite the lamp post—the Elms is at the corner, the end abuts on the North Road, the front faces the High Road—almost directly after I turned the corner, about 6 or 7 yards, I saw the body of a woman, it was just in the gully grating, the middle of the body was over the grating—it was quite daylight—the head was towards the Uxbridge Road—I went up to the body, the clothes were turned up to the chin, leaving the whole of the body quite exposed—I saw Police-constable Cooper coming in the opposite direction; I made signs to him to come to me—before he came up I touched the body to ascertain whether she was cold; she was quite cold on the face and legs, and quite dead—I noticed a bruise on the left side of the neck, I noticed nothing on the face—the tongue was slightly protruding from the month—she was lying on her back, the right leg was extended straight from, the body and the other drawn up, but yet extended from the centre of the body—I noticed a swelling, a large lump on the bottom of the stomach close to her private parts—I noticed that because it was so prominent, not from the colour but from the size of it—I also noticed a quantity of dirt in or on that part—the constable procured a cart ladder and with my assistance he placed the body on it—on moving the body the constable picked up this cap (produced) and immediately afterwards I picked up a pair of cots, to the best of my knowledge these are them, they are things that brickmakers use to handle bricks with, they are made of leather, principally from old boots—one of her boots was off and lying 3 or 4 yards from the body in the road; I can't say whether it was the right or left boot; it was on the edge of a trail that I noticed, the dust had been disturbed above the body towards the Uxbridge road and a little towards the left hand side of the road, on the opposite side to that on which the body was lying; it was a little towards the side but near the centre of the road, between the body and Dr. Stewart's, only higher up, it left an irregular mark about a yard in width—I mean the mark where the dirt looked as if it had been first disturbed; extending from this was a trail leading to the place where the body was in the form of an arc—it looked as if the dust had been disturbed, sweeping round in a circular form, it was one continuous sweep; there was a trail from that to the body, it looked as if the body had fallen in the centre of the road and the trail led right up to the place where the body lay, as if her clothes had flopped down in the road—the body was close up to the hedge, there is a slight bank up to the hedge, and it was just at the bottom of the hedge—the length of the trail was about 8 or 9 yards—it had been a fine night, the ground was quite dry, there was a quantity of dust, there had not been

any rain for a week—the boot was on the edge of the trail, about half-way: down the trail and on the side nearest the hedge, it was an old spring side: boot, but the springs were almost gone, it would have been very easy to. have pulled off—nobody was about there except the constable—I observed two marks just below the woman's legs, they were two indentations in the ground, the ground was very soft there—I formed an opinion from the appearance of the marks that they had been caused by the toes of a man's boots sticking in the ground, they looked like that—they were almost in a line with the centre of the body, between the two legs, but about a foot below—the legs were open and wide apart—I noticed a bruise on one of the legs, near the knee; I could not say on which leg, I think it was slightly below the knee, but I could not say.

Cross-examined. By the High Road I mean the Uxbridge Road—the North Road is a thoroughfare—I know Adams' farm; it is not shown on the plan—it is situated in the bend of the road, on the right hand side going from the Uxbridge Road; it is below Hunter's farm—I do not know of any-way to Adams' farm from near the gully grating, I know that part well—there is a stile about 70 or 80 yards further down, which leads into the back premises of Adams' farm.

SAMUEL COOPER (Policeman X 71). On the morning of 29th July I was on duty at Southall, near the North Road—I saw the last witness there—he made a sign to me—I went to him and saw the body of a woman at the side of the road—she was on her back—her clothes were up right over her waist, the lower part of her body was all exposed, and resting naked on, the ground; the legs were extended—I noticed a large lump partly on the thigh—the boot was off the right foot and lying about a foot from the feet—I felt her arms and legs, she was dead and quite cold—I noticed a bruise on the neck, the neck was very much discoloured, as though she had had a blow or kick—there was a scar on the left temple, but not any blood flowing from it—a handful of dust or red sand was thrown into her person—I went to the Red Lion yard and got a cart ladder, called up the landlord and got assistance, and removed the body to the tap room of the Red Lion, and sent to the inspector at the station—as I lifted the body to carry it away, I noticed this cap, it. was lying right under the centre of the body, and these cots were lying underneath the cap—the body was not very stiff, because I straightened the leg—the trunk was not cold when I stripped the things off two hours after—after removing the body 'I went and examined the state of the road—it was about 4.50 when I took the body away, and about 5.40 when I examined the road—I found a trail in the centre of the road opposite where the body lay, of about 8 or 9 yards, as though she had been dragged along the road, which was swept by her clothes—there were marks of feet as though some one's feet had been trampling about, about a foot from the place, just in a line with the body—I noticed nothing else—I had been down the North Road about 2 o'clock that morning, it is my beat—I did not notice anything then—there was no moon; if the body had been there then I might have passed without seeing it—there was some quarrelling going on in another direction—I went down the road from the Uxbridge Road on the left hand side, by the Elms—the road is about 7 yards wide there—it was rather dull towards the morning part—there is a little grass at the side of the road where the body was—there is a lamp post there, but it was not alight; they do not light them in the summer.

Cross-examined. In going down the North Road I went on the left hand

side, that is close by the Elms, and Dr. Stewart's, those houses are close to the road—a police-constable named Buncle lives in the lodge at the carriage gate—I saw nothing and heard no noise in this direction when I passed down the road at 2 o'clock.

ROBERT JAMES BURTON . I am a surgeon living at Hanwell, and am divisional surgeon to the police—on the morning of 29th July, I was sent for by the police to go to Southall—I went to the Red Lion and there saw the body of a woman lying dead in the tap-room; that was about 7 o'clock—I carefully examined the body; I made notes when I returned home—the bonnet and clothes were on the body—the first thing that called my attention was a bruise on the left temple, it was a bruise and an abrasion as well, and a few drops of blood had oozed from it—the bruise extended from the temple down the left side of the neck under the lower jaw, and the parts were swollen under the jaw and at the side of the neck—the bruise was about from three to four inches wide from the side of the neck under the jaw; the abrasion was on the left temple; that was not more than an inch long—I did not measure it—I had to unpin the bonnet to see a portion of what I have described, it was pinned under the chin with one pin—I also unpinned a bit of ribbon that was round the neck; they were not tightly pinned on—it was all discoloured from the temple down the side of the neck and under the lower jaw, it was a bluish black; that was owing to effusion of blood under the skin—the lips were congested, that is, of a bluish colour, darkish—neither the ribbon under the chin or that round the neck could have produced any injury during life—on removing the clothes I found the body still warm round the waist, where it had been covered by the clothes—the rest of the body was cold—there were no marks about the body—between the legs on the right thigh and partially on the lower part of her person, there was a swelling, on the right external labia, about the size of an egg, and on pressing it some slight blood oozed from the parts, showing a communication—there was no abrasion, only the swelling;' the internal parts must have been injured to have caused what I saw—there was a rupture of the mucous membrane lining the vagina—there was a quantity of gritty dust and sand in the vagina—there was a slight abrasion on the left knee about an inch long, just over the knee cap; in my judgment the cause of death was direct violence applied to the head and neck—I should say death had taken place from four to six hours when I saw the body.

By THE GUILTY. There was nothing but a bruise and swelling; that was caused by violence, but how caused I should not like to state positively—there must have been very great external violence to have done that, such violence as I considered sufficient to cause death—a fall would not account for the injuries, nor could they have been done by herself.

Cross-examined. Supposing a fall, the result of a push, I do not think that would cause such injuries as I saw on the head—it would be violence, but not sufficient to produce what I saw—it would depend on the force that came in contact with the body, there should have been some protruding body to have got under the lower jaw to produce what I describe, and I have no evidence to show me that there was anything of the kind—if she was expelled from the house and fell on the edge of a stone step, in my opinion that would not account for the abrasion and discoloration I observed on her head—I do not think that would account for what I saw—I made a careful examination—I did not open the body or head, my

opinion was founded on the external appearances—I considered the external examination sufficient to enable me to account for the death—I am a surgeon of twenty years' experience, I have been an army surgeon, and have seen every kind of wound—I have been for many years in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich, where we have every kind of injury—I was nine and a half years in the army, and have seen every possible kind of injury that could be inflicted by force—I describe the abrasion as a slight one—the ribbon was tight but not sufficiently tight to—cause strangulation—it was pinned in the ordinary way—I described it as tight before the Magistrate—I should say it fitted accurately round the neck, but not so as to produce any injurious effect—I cannot suppose that it could cause strangulation if she were drunk and rolling about the road, because on removing the ribbon there was no mark of tightening, which must have been there if it had produced any injurious effect—there must have been a regular mark left on the neck, but there was not—there would have been a line all round the neck if it had produced congestion of the upper part of the head—I did not smell her breath, there was no breath to smell, it was all gone—I had no means of ascertaining whether she had been in liquor.

Re-examined. I should say that death might be almost instantaneous from such an injury as I saw, or in a very few minutes—it would affect the senses at once—there was no dirt or grit about the neck, nor any mark of any jagged thing having struck it, except on the temple—I do not think that the discoloration, which extended all down, was consequent upon the abrasion on the temple—I think there must have been more than one act of violence, one on the temple and another under the neck or under the jaw over the large blood vessels and nerves—I should say her age was from about fifty-eight to sixty, as near as I could judge.

JOHN ROUSE . I am the son of the landlord of the White Hart, which is the next public-house but one to the Elms, and on the same side of the road—on 28th July I was in front of the bar a few minutes before 11 o'clock; I heard a quarrel outside the Black Horse—I went to the spot and saw-five men and three women, one of whom had a child—Stone Street was standing talking to the deceased woman—I saw her dead next morning—there was a quarrel with the woman who had the child and one of the men—I did not hear what Stonestreet was saying to the old woman, he stood some distance from me—the old woman was standing leaning against a post projecting from the Black Horse—they all appeared to be the worse for drink—I saw three men and two women, one having the child, leave and go in the direction of Uxbridge—the deceased woman remained, and Stonestreet and another man—the other man went up and asked Stone-Street if he was going home—they were talking together when I left—I could not recognise the other man—I did not properly catch the reply he made—I left them standing close to the Black Horse—that was just about 11 o'clock, closing time—they had just closed the house.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Taylor was the woman who had the child—I did not know her as Mrs. Taylor then—the disturbance was between her and some man.

JAMES ALLEN . I keep the Black Horse at Southall—the deceased woman was there on the night of 28th July—she came in about 8.30, or from that to 8.40—she was a perfect stranger—I saw Stone Street in the house at the same time—he was there till turning out time, he came in a few minutes after the other persons came in, about 7.30—I saw him talking to the

woman—I could not say that I saw them drinking; they were talking in a civil sort of way—at the time I went into the room some were sitting and some standing—I saw Stonestreet and the woman talking together; I don't know what they were talking about—I saw Drinkwater there—he came in at the same time as the other men and stayed the same time—he and Stonestreet came in together; they appeared to be like companions—these two were two or three minutes after the others—I had never seen any of the party before—when the deceased came in she called for a pint of beer; she paid for it and took it into the tap-room—she came out in about half an hour for another pint, but I would not let her have it—I said "You have had beer enough; if I was you, mother, I would get off home as soon as I could, for I don't think you want any more beer"—that was after 9 o'clock—I can't say that I saw her have any more, but I believe she did have some of the other party's—she was the worse for liquor, but not so bad but what she knew what she was doing—she remained there till about 10.35—I went into the tap-room and took her by the arm and brought her to the door, and as she went out at the door she made a slip and went on her knees and went down—she was not much the worse for liquor then, only she was a little bit obstinate and did not want to go out—she would not go out when I asked her, and I brought her to the door to put her out—she went down on her knees like, but I still had her arm at the time she fell; I had my hand on her all the time—she got up and walked away—this was just on the second step like of the doorway—there is only one step, and this was just as she was going down the step—she did not fall on the top of the step; she was off the step, on the ground, when she fell—I did not kick her or strike her; I was only too anxious to get her out of the way—I had hold of her arm the whole time and when she fell she did not fall by that force; she went down on her knees, and then leant forward—I don't think her head came on the ground—she fell right down—I don't think her face touched the ground, only her knees; and then she pitched a little forward, but I don't think her head touched the ground, because she got up directly and walked off—I had hold of her arm all the time till she got up again—she was able to walk steadily—she walked about there for some time—there were five men and two women in the tap-room when she came in—the prisoners were two of the five men—I don't know who the other three were, but I should know them again—two of them are here; I don't know their names.

Cross-examined. I took the woman by the arm and took her to the door because she got obstinate and I wanted her to go out—she was not so drunk but what she might have gone out when I asked her, but she was under the influence of liquor; she could have gone out if she liked—she only had one pint of beer of my drawing, and I did not see her have any more, but I was told she had some with the others in the tap-room—the step to the door is a stone step—there is no wooden step, only the cill of the door; that is not very high, not above 2 inches—the stone step is 3 or 4 inches—she had got out of the door, and was on the stone step when she fell—we were both on the step—I was stooping while she was down, to help her up again, still holding her arm, and she got up and walked away directly—I don't think my hand ever parted from her arm, but I won't say positively—I have stated that she fell on her knees, and then her head jerked a bit forward—I could not say whether her head touched the ground or not, but I don't think it did—the prisoners came outside at the time; they were along with

the old woman—at the time she was up on the step they were following; one was outside, and one followed outside—Stone Street had gone out, and Drinkwater followed, he came out as I went in again to get the house clear—as she got up and walked away—both the prisoners were in the house—I saw Drinkwater outside the door; I should not like to swear he was in the house, but he was there.

Re-examined. I saw him outside when the old lady came out—I recollect seeing him come in, soon after the other people; he came in with the other man; I did not see him, but I saw the other man come in; I saw him afterwards—I am quite sure I saw him outside.

GEORGE COOK . I am a labourer, and live at Southall—on the night of 28th July, I was at the White Hart, a few minutes before 11 o'clock—I heard a bother outside the Black Horse, and went out and saw five men and three women, and one of them had a little child—one of the men was very drunk, an old man, neither of the prisoners—I saw Stone Street there; I did not see the other prisoner, not to know him; I am not able to say whether I saw him or not—I saw Stonestreet taking hold of one of the drunken men's arms trying to get him up as he was down on the ground, and I saw another man talking to a woman over against the porch of the door of the Black Horse; I could not say who that was, it was not Stonestreet—I don't know who the woman was; she looked an oldish woman—I went away towards Uxbridge, some of them followed me, but I could not say which or how many—I did not see the deceased next day.

JOSHUA PIGRAM . I live at Hillingdon—I am an ostler at the White Hart, at Hayes—on 28th July last, I was walking home from London by way of Southall—I got to Southall, about 12 o'clock, the clock struck 12 as I went by the Three Horse shoes, at Southall—just beyond there by the smithy, I saw five persons, two females, and three men—they were sitting on the side of the road, and one man was lying in the road on his back—one of the women was trying to get him up—there were two carts coming towards London, and she asked him to get up; he did not answer, he seemed almost too far gone—I heard her say to the man with the cart, "Master, there is a man in the road, don't run over him," and he pulled aside and passed him—they were wrangling and one of the women said "It is just what I expected if we came over here, you would get drunk and quarrelsome"—I passed them, and after I got by I heard one of the females say "You are like all the rest of them, Stone Street"—I kept on my way, and when I had got from 80 to 100 yards, I heard cries of murder five distinct times, that proceeded from behind me where I had left these parties; I should say certainly without a doubt the cries came from that spot—when I got 30 or 40 yards further, I met my brother-in-law, Henry Clark coming to London, and I then heard cries of murder again, four or five times from the same direction—the moon was rising; it was a beautiful moonlight night—my brother-in-law went on to London, and I went on my road for Hayes.

Cross-examined. This was in the main road to Uxbridge, I did not go back again, on hearing the cries, because I was quite exhausted; I had been laid up for a long time with a broken thumb, and as my brother-in-law was going past, I told him to look out; he lives at Hillingdon Heath—I did not think the cries were distressing cries, nor yet as though the woman was hurt; they were quarrelsome cries, as though it was man and wife quarrelling, and the man might have struck her in a case of intoxication,

but nothing in the way of murder—it was a female voice; I could not see what sort of women they were—I was close to them, one was small and rather stout, and she had a child in her arms; the other was sitting on the side of the path, it was nice and light, the moon was just rising over the hedge very bright, indeed.

ANN TAYLOR . I am the wife of John Taylor, a labourer, in the employment of Mr. Whittington, a farmer at Yedding, about 2 miles from Southall—on 28th July we had been hay-making there—Stone Street was also employed there; he had been at work with us for a week or more—I have known him for the last three years and his family; he lives just past Mr. Whittington's—on this evening I was at the Black florae, at Southall, with my husband, Sarah Ware and her husband, and her brother Richard Wilkins, and Stonestreet—we left Mr. Whittington's between 7 and 8 o'clock, and met Drinkwater on our way—he went with us to the Black Horse; I don't know what time we got there—we called for several pots of beer there, and were drinking in the tap-room—about half an hour or twenty minutes after we were there I noticed an elderly woman come into the tap-room; she had fusees in her hand to sell—I did not notice how she was dressed—she stood there two or three minutes, and we asked her if she would drink out of our pot—she said "Yes," and then she said "Now you have asked me to drink I will go and fetch a pot of beer and you shall drink with me," and she went and fetched a pot into the tap-room—we drank some of it; it was more to associate with us two women, she did not care for the association of the men much—she stayed there till it was time to close the house—I saw her leave—I left first with my child in my, arms, and was waiting outside for my husband and the rest to come out—she seemed rather obstinate in coming out; the landlord told her it was time to go out, and she did not seem to take heed to his words, and he took her by. the shoulders and put her out of the door, and after I saw her put out she fell—she seemed to fall right in front—I was standing by the side of the step and she fell to the left—I did not notice whether she hurt herself—I saw her get up and turn to the left, and I never saw anything more of her—by that time my husband and the rest of them were out, and we went to the right, towards the blacksmith's shop, and then all our men sat down; they were very drunk—Stonestreet was with us; he was helping Thomas Ware home, who was very drunk and insensible—I did not see Drinkwater at that time; I did not see him come out of the public-house, but when we were at the smithy I heard him come and call Stonestreet—we were then sitting down close opposite the smithy, because our husbands were very much in drink, and we had a job to get them along—Thomas Ware was lying in the road—Drinkwater called "Joby, I want you a moment," and Stonestreet. went back with him in the direction of the Black Horse—we then went on a little further, within about 20 yards of where we had to cross the fields, and our husbands sat down again—I was persuading my husband to come home; he was rather ill-tempered in drink, and said he would not—I said something that he did not like, and he went to strike me—I was afraid he would strike my child, and I cried out "Murder!" Three times—after that we turned to go across Mr. Rice's fields, and when we got into the hay field Stonestreet overtook us—I can't exactly say the time, but I believe it was about three quarters of an hour after he had left us—he came into the hayfield were we were—we had sat down there again in the haycocks—I did not notice then whether he was wearing any hat or cap, because it was very dark—at the time

he left us he was wearing a black hat—he came across the fields, the same way we had come—I did not see Drinkwater again till between 4 and 5 o'clock, when we were going home—he had on a black cap—Stonestreet asked him where the old woman went to, what had become of her—Drinkwater said "I don't know; I woke up and found myself laid alongside of her, and there she lay, just as we left her"—Stonestreet said nothing to that—Drink-water was wearing a round black hat, a billycock, and he said "Ah, Mr. Joby, I have lost my hat, but I shall stick to yours till I find mine"—Stone-Street was then wearing a handkerchief round his head—we then all of us went to Mr. Whittington's, and about 11 o'clock in the day we started to go away, looking for harvesting—we had finished our haymaking for Mr. Whittington the night we went to Southall, but we went back for our things—the prisoners went with us looking for harvesting till we came to Littleton, at Shepperton Green, about 3 miles from Staines, and we all took a piece of corn each at General Wood's—the prisoners both worked there for two or three days, and when we had finished they went away—a great many rabbits were caught and killed while we were cutting the corn; the prisoners took part in killing them.

Cross-examined. I think we went to work at General Wood's on the Saturday and went away on the Wednesday; the prisoners went away an hour before us—I saw them carrying rabbits and the rabbits were bleeding very much; that was while we were at General Wood's—both the prisoners wore white jackets, but I could not swear to the jackets—they were similar to these (produced.)

By THE COURT. I believe it was about three-quarters of an hour from the time Stone Street left us when Drinkwater called him till he rejoined us in the hay field—I did not take notice of the time, I was worried with my husband and child—I saw and heard no clock; it was still dark—the moon rose after we got into the hay field, it was very dark when we sat by the road side, we could scarcely see at all; by what I could judge it was then between 12 and 1 o'clock, it was still dark when Stonestreet rejoined us as far as I can remember.

JOHN TAYLOR . I am the husband of the last witness—I am a labourer—on 28th July I was employed by Mr. Whittington hay making, we finished that day—I was one of the men that went to the Black Horse—I saw the prisoners there—we all came out together—Stone Street came along with us as far as the blacksmith's shop—when we were there Drinkwater came back for Stonestreet and they went back together towards the Black Horse—that was the last I saw of either of them that night—next morning I saw Stonestreet with a handkerchief on his head; that was about 4. o'clock as near as I can guess, in Mr. Rice's field, at the place where we used to cook our food—we were lying there on the hay—I suppose it was getting towards 12 o'clock when we left the smithy to go to the hay field—I was a little the worse for liquor—I did not see Stonestreet again till 4 o'clock, I don't know where Drinkwater was at that time, I saw him it might be half an hour afterwards, he came into the hay field and joined Stonestreet—Stonestreet said to him "How did you leave the old woman?"—I think he said "As you left her," but I don't remember—Stonestreet said "Well, we are going away harvesting and we must not come back here again, for I expect a policeman after us"—that was all I heard said—they both went along with us to General Wood's harvesting; we left about 9.30 or 10 o'clock in the morning and we got to work at General Wood's about 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

SARAH WARE . I am a hay maker—I was in the employment of Mr. Whittington—on the evening of 28th July I was at the Black Horse with my husband, the Taylors, and others—my husband got the worse for drink—I saw an old woman come in—she drank three or four times with us—at the time for closing we were all turned out—the landlord took the old woman by the shoolders and put her out—she fell down—I did not notice how she fell—I was outside the house; she fell right down but I did not see how—the landlord had not hold of her at that time; her whole body fell on the ground—I did not notice her head going on the ground; she fell on her knees—I was looking after my husband at the time—I saw her get up and walk away to the left, and I saw no more of her; she" got up without assistance—I and the others went to the right towards Uxbridge, Taylor and his wife, my husband, my brother, and Stone Street—when we got down by the blacksmiths Stonestreet was with us, he was helping me home with my husband—while doing that I heard Drinkwater come and call him back; I did not hear what he said; he came close to us—he came up to Stonestreet as he was along with me and my husband—I saw him, he called out and Stonestreet went back with him in the direction of the Black Horse—I should think it was 11.30 by then—we were sitting down just above the blacksmith's shop—we then went on a little way up the road, and afterwards went into Mr. Rice's hay field—I can't say how long we took getting there—after we had been there some time I saw Stonestreet, he overtook us in the field before we got to the bridge, just before we got to Rice's field; I should think that was nearly two o'clock, but I can't say exactly—in the meantime the men had been lying by the side of the road, we could not get them any further—Stonestreet stopped in the hay field—I did not see anything more of Drinkwater till we got to his father's house, between 4 and 5 o'clock—we passed his house as we were going to our master's farm again; Stone-Street was with us—we were going to Mr. Wittington's farm where my family was; I was going to fetch them—we had to pass Drinkwater's father's house, and saw Drinkwater in his father's premises, outside the door; he was dressed—after we got to Mr. Whittington's farm Drink-water came there, and I heard Stonestreet say "What has become of the old woman, and where did she go to"—Drinkwater said that he waked up and found himself lying by the side of the old woman, and she laid there just as they left her, and he took his hook away from her—I did not hear Stonestreet say anything to that—at that time Stonestreet had a handkerchief on his head, and Drinkwater was wearing Stonestreet's hat, a billy cock—Drinkwater said he could not find his own, and he should keep Stonestreet's until he found his own—nothing further was said—we left Mr. Whittington's between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morning all together, and went to West Drayton, and then to Shepperton Green to General Wood's, where we cut some corn—the prisoners went there with us, they and my brother took the corn together—we went from there to Guildford, and then to Sutton in Sussex, and after we had been there three or four days, Drinkwater's father came down—I can't say the day of the month that was—we went to Shepperton Green on Saturday, and came away on Wednesday morning—Drinkwater's father saw him at Sutton—I did not hear what passed, he stopped with us the night—I heard Drinkwater say to Stonestreet that night when he was in bed "Get up Joby, we must go away"—I asked Stonestreet if he had done anything that forced him to go away—he said he had not done anything—Drinkwater said "Yes, you have, you know what

I told you about the old woman"—I told him the old woman had her feelings, the same as his own mother and me, and she ought not to be used badly more than us—I had not heard about the old woman before the father came down Drink water told me that she was dead—he told me that in the public-house at Sutton, the same night the father came, about half an hour after Drink-water woke Stonestreet up—I did not know who he meant by "The old woman," no further than from what he told Stonestreet before, and seeing her at the Black Horse—next morning I heard Drinkwater say that the old woman was drunk—my husband asked Stonestreet if he had had to do with the old woman, and he said yes, there were four of them, and all four had to do with her—Drinkwater was present then—he did not say anything on that; he only said the old woman was drunk—I said if she was tipsy she ought not be ill used—the father went away by the first train in the morning, and the prisoners went away together; Stonestreet said they were going to Aldershot—I heard nothing more of them till they were in custody—the cap produced is Drinkwater's; he was wearing it on the night of the 28th, when we were at the beer-house, and I had seen him wearing it in the village.

Cross-examined. We left Mr. Whittington's farm on the Thursday, and went to General Wood's—there was some rabbit hunting there—I can't say how many days it was after we left Mr. Whittington's, that Drinkwater's father came to Sutton; it would be nearly a week—we cut eleven acres of wheat at Sutton, my husband and me and the children—I don't know of Drinkwater's father making any communication to the police.

RICHARD WILKINS . I am a labourer, and was in the employ of Mr. Whittington, hay making, on 28th July—after finishing that, I went with our party to the Black Horse at Southall, and stopped there till they shut up—I saw the deceased come in and she stayed there till we were all put out—I saw the landlord get hold of her by the shoulders to put her out of the door—she fell down when he got her over the doorstep; she fell on her hands and knees—I did not stop to see her get up again—I went on with my brother-in-law to try to get him home—Stone Street was helping me—when we got to the blacksmith's shop, Drinkwater came running up the road after him and said "Joby, come back with me," and he turned back with him—I went along with my brother-in-law and my sister to try to get him along home, we got a little way by the blacksmith's shop and he sat down in the road; eventually we got to Mr. Rice's field—that might be three quarters of an hour or over an hour after Stonestreet had been called away—I could not tell what time it was; we stopped twice on the way—it is about a mile and a quarter from the blacksmith's shop to Mr. Rice's field as nigh as I can tell—I did not see Stonestreet again till we got over the bridge, just going into Mr. Rice's field—he overtook us there, and he slept with us in Rice's field till daylight—that morning, after we left Rice's field, I saw Drinkwater outside his father's door as we were going to Mr. Whittington's—that was between 4 and 5 o'clock—after going to Mr. Whittington's, we went away harvesting—before we left Mr. Whittington's farm, I heard Stonestreet ask Drinkwater how he left the old woman—, Drinkwater said "I woke up and found her there, and then she was just as we left her"—we then went on to Shepperton and afterwards to Sutton—I believe we got to Sutton on the Thursday—we had been there a week when Drinkwater's father came down; he came on the Thursday night—we had taken a job of harvesting—after the father came, my sister and brother-in-law

asked the prisoners if they had had anything to do with the old woman, and Stonestreet said "Yes, we all four had to do with her.

GEORGE WILLS (Police Inspector X.) About 6 o'clock on the morning of 29th July, I heard of this matter, and went to the North Road and saw the roadway—there was a place of about 8 or 9 yards in a circular form, when something had been dragged; that was about 42 yards, by my stepping from the corner of the Uxbridge Road, and 45 yards to where the body lay—I saw marks at the side of the road as if it had been trampled upon, it was very soft—there was an inquest on 31st July, and an open verdict re turned—on Saturday, 21st August, I went to Guildford with an officer named Strange—I there found the prisoners in custody—they were handed over to me by superintendent Barker, of the surrey constabulary—I told them they would be charged on suspicion of wilfully murdering a woman at Southall, on 29th July—Drinkwater said "We know nothing of killing the woman, we had to do with her"—Stone Street said nothing—I took them to Hanwell Station, the charge was then entered and read to them—I cautioned them that they had no occasion to say anything, but what they did say I should repeat again—Drinkwater again said "We know nothing about killing the woman, we had to do with her, and we left her with two other chaps; she stood five or six pots of beer; after we left the beer-house she went round the corner, a little way up the lane, and laid down—he also said "The landlord, threw the woman out of the beer-house"—Stonestreet said at the same time "We had to do with the woman, and left two other chaps with her"—I asked them if they would know either of those men—they said they were strangers to them, and they did not think they should know them again if they saw them—Stonestreet said that; Drinkwater was by and did not say anything—I produced this cap and cots at that time, and without either of them being asked Drinkwater said "They are mine"—the distance from the smithy to Rice's field is about a mile and a quarter—across the fields it would be about a mile—from the smithy to the Elms, at the corner of the North Road, is about 200 yards.

Cross-examined. The explanation which the prisoners gave was repeated two or three times, each of them said they had left her with two chaps—they did not say the name of the place where they had to do with the woman—I did not have any communication direct from Drinkwater's father, I had it from a constable—I believe he did communicate with the police, that was after he had been to Sutton.

Re-examined. I traced out the men who were in company with the woman—I was not able to find any other persons—I tried to find out who the woman was, but was not able to do so.

JAMES STRANGE (Detective Officer). On Saturday, August 21st, I went with Mr. Wills to Guildford and found the two prisoners there at the station—I know Drinkwater well—I heard Mr. Wills tell them what they we're charged with—Drinkwater's father has been to me on several occasions, and has assisted me with all the information he could give—he told me that his son was at Sutton, and I proceeded there with the inspector, I found he had been at work there, but could not trace him at that time.

GEORGE SUMNER . I am a contractor for burning bricks—Drinkwater worked for me eight or ten weeks up to five weeks before 28th July—he was not at work for me that day, but he was with me that day; I was burning bricks at that time, and he said "Can I come to work in the morning?"—I said "Yes, there is a job for you, Joe, if you have a mind to come"

—he said "I shall be there in the morning; here is a pair of new cots, look, that I have got to come to work with"—these are the cots, they were new, made out of old leather; they have not been used for bricks—he did not come to work next day, and I did not see him afterwards till he was in custody.

Cross-examined. He worked for me on several occasions; he was always pretty civil with me—I never kept any company with him, so I could not say as to his character—I have known him for years, and his father too; I never heard anything against him.

JOHN WHITTINGTON . I am a farmer at Yedding—that is about 2 1/2 miles from Southall across the fields—I know both the prisoners, they are natives of Yedding—Stone Street worked for me on 28th July—I finished my hay making that day, and he left with the rest—on the morning of the 29th I saw the prisoners together at my premises about 5.30 or 6 o'clock, and they left that morning with three men and two women.

Cross-examined. The distance from my place to Mr. Rice's field is 1 1/4 miles—I have known both these lads for a long time—I think their character has been pretty good—I never knew anything against them.

GEORGE DUDMAN (Police sergeant). On 28th July I was at Hanwell about 6.15 in the afternoon—I saw a woman passing through, who I saw dead the next morning—she was going towards Southall—she was quite a stranger to me; she appeared to be a tramp; she had two boxes of lucifers in her left hand, and was walking along the road.

GEORGE FREDERICK PAYNE . I am a surveyor of 4, Whitehall—I made the plan that has been produced; it is made to a scale—the exact distance from the smithy to the corner of the North Road is 300 yards, from the gully grating to the corner of the Elms is 46 yards—I have an Ordnance map here—from the smithy to Rice's field is 1 1/2 miles by the road and the side of the canal; I don't know the path across the fields.

Cross-examined. From the Black Horse to the North Road is 57 yards.

GEORGE WILLS (re-examined.). There is a right-of-way across the fields from the North Road directly over the canal bridge; the distance that way would be about 1 1/2 miles.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury — DEATH .

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, September 21st, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-489

489. GEORGE JOHNSON (20), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing one dozen of calf kid, and other articles, the property of the Great Western Railway Company— Four Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-490

490. CHARLES BURRELL (59), and ROBERT ROWLEY (33) , stealing 50 lbs. of leather of Archibald M'Dougall and another, their masters, to which

BURRELL PLEADED GUILTY Three Months' Imprisonment.

MR. STRAIGHT, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence against ROWLEY.


Reference Number: t18750920-491

491. WALTER SMITH (24) , stealing 97 yards of cloth, the property of the Midland Railway Company.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK DOWNS (Detective Officer). On 8th September I was with Hulse, a detective in plain clothes, and saw the prisoner in Wood Street—there I

were a great number of railway vans about from 9.30 to 12 o'clock, the city is generally blocked at that time—I watched the prisoner for three hours—a Midland van of which William Clark was the guard, was standing still in Cannon Street—it afterwards went into Watling Street, where the prisoner jumped up on the tail-board as it went along and pulled a small truss from the centre to the tail-board and then jumped down and got it on his left shoulder—the van then stopped, and the guard jumped down to deliver that very bale there—the prisoner ran, and I followed him and never lost sight of him till I took him at the corner of Friday Street—I said "Come along, you will have to go back with me"—he said "What for?"—I said "For stealing a sale of goods"—he said "Not stealing, only an attempt"—I said "You will have to settle that somewhere else."

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were watching an opportunity—I bad seen you follow another van down Bow Lane and Watling Street into St. Paul's Churchyard, where you examined a parcel, but just at that time the driver came up—after that you continued following various vans for three hours—you sat on a door step watching this van till it moved on, and then followed it, jumped up, and took the bale.

DANIAL HULSE (Detective Officer). I was with Downs, and saw the prisoner get into the van in Watling Street, and pull the bale into the tail-board, he then jumped down and put the bale on his left shoulder—the van stopped and he put it down and ran away—Downs went after him—the bale contained 97 yards of cloth, value 12l. 17s. 6d.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were not asleep, as soon as the van went on you went after it.

WILLIAM CLARK . I am the guard in charge of this van in the driver's absence—I saw this bale put about the centre of the van in the morning—I was sitting in front, and when the van stopped I found the bale on the tail-board—it had to be delivered in Red Lion Court.

Prisoner's Defence. I am guilty of attempting to steal it.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction at Clerkenwell, in November, 1873, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY**— Seven Years' Penal servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-492

492. WILLIAM OPPERMAN (37) , stealing 12 yards of cloth, of Alfred Brown, and another. Second Count—stealing within six months 2 yards of cloth of the same persons.

MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.

GEORGE THOMAS CLARK . I am assistant to Charles Meeking and others—Alfred Brown, is a member of the firm—I am employed in the woollen department in Hatton Garden, where tailors' materials are sold—the prisoner has been in the habit of dealing there for those materials for from four to six years, and for five or six months' past my attention has been directed to him—on 16th March, between 4 and 5 o'clock, I saw him in the woollen department; he went to the department where coatings are kept, which is further inside—I went behind a stack of goods, and saw him take a remnant from under the counter, and put it on a recess behind him; he was behind the counter—after looking round him he took it from behind him and put it in his bag, which he closed and remained standing there—there was no one near, and he was not served till five minutes afterwards—I told the clerk and the shop walker, and the next morning I told Mr. Brown—no steps were taken, but it was in consequence of that that I

observed him particularly when he came again on 11th August—he spoke to Mr. Phillips, who was near me, and then walked on into the coating department, and into the tweed room—I followed him and watched him—I thought I saw him taking a remnant from under the counter and stepped forward quickly and saw the remnant half in the bag and half out—by a quick movement of his hand it was pushed entirely into the bag—he then took out a saucer or a piece of earthenware, put it back and closed the bag again—no one was near him—I moved nearer to him and said "Is anyone serving you!"—he said "No, not yet"—I asked him what he wanted—he said "A blue serge, some twill, and canvas," and we went upstairs to the department where they are kept—he was served with six yards of blue serge and received this invoice (produced.)—we then went to another department where he was served with some twill and canvas which came to 5s. 9d., the total amount of his bill was 1l. 1s. 6d., and the money was paid—the cash boy brought back the receipt, but I did not see whether it was given to him to him—he did not say a word about anything in his bag or ask to have it put on the bill and charged to him—none of the articles mentioned on the bill would have been purchased in the department where he put the piece of stuff in his bag—he paid the money at the counter—he then asked me to find him a nice sheet of paper if I could—I went to fetch it, spoke to somebody, and did not go back—the prisoner was called to the counting-house, and I stood outside—I partly heard what took place—Mr. Brown was there, and the prisoner, and star, a policeman—Mr. Brown said "We have reason to believe that there is cloth in that bag, which is stolen, let me look"—the prisoner at once opened the bag, took out the cloth, and put it on the counter and said "If you think that is yours"—I identified it as the remnant which had been under the counter—Mr. Brown said "I must give you in custody," or something to that effect—the prisoner said "Good God, you won't do that," or something like that—he was taken to the station—there were two yards of cloth worth about 13s.

Cross-examined. The prisoner is a member of the firm of Opperman & Co., tailors, of 88, High Holborn—that business has, I believe, been carried on for twenty-five years—he has been in the habit of spending large sums of money with our firm, and came there two or three times a week between March and August—I cannot say who served him on 16th August, or what articles he bought, but I believe he bought something in the tweed department—the transaction would not appear with a name to it in any book, and I have no means of tracing it—I said before the Magistrate "I do not know now that the cloth is not paid for"—when he asked for the paper the goods were lying naked on the counter, preparatory to being folded up—Phillips brought him to the counting-house; he took his bag with him and left the goods on the counter—after he was given in custody he said to Mr. Brown "May I speak to you?" and Mr. Brown declined to have anything to say to him—he said "I have nothing to do but to give you in custody," and walked away—this is the bag (produced.)—remnants are not bought by measurement; they are valued at so much.

Re-examined. We have a very large quantity of materials there, and should not miss a remnant—when he had been served on 11th August I asked him if he wanted anything else—he said "No, I think that is all I want to-day, Mr. Clark."

BENJAMIN WEEDON . I am a clerk in the woollen department at Messrs. Meeking's—in March last Clark made a communication to me—I had seen

the prisoner there that day, and I made a note of the matter at the time in my diary—Mr. Brown was then absent, but I made a communication to him next morning.

WALTER HUNTING . I am a cashier in the woollen department at Messrs. Meeking's—I receipt the invoices, and the customer gives me the money—on the Wednesday on which the prisoner was given in custody he paid me 1l. 1s. 6d., and I believe the goods were on the counter by the bill—he said nothing about having anything else to pay for besides what was on the bill—this stamp was put on the bill.

WILLIAM STAR (City Policeman 312). On 11th August, at 1.50, I was called to Messrs. Meeking's, and went through the shop to the counting-house—the prisoner was brought to the counting-house by one of the assistants—I told him that Mr. Brown accused him of having something in his bag which did not belong to him—he said "My God, my God, Mr. Brown do not say so"—I requested him to open his bag—he said "My God, my God, Mr. Brown, do you wish to ruin me?"—I told him if he did not open the bag I would—he then opened it and pulled this piece of cloth out, which Mr. Clark identified, and the prisoner said, "surely, Mr. Brown, if it is yours you won't say so?"—Mr. Brown gave him in custody and walked away—he called after Mr. Brown, but Mr. Brown would have nothing to say to him—he was very anxious to speak to Mr. Brown all the way to the station, and we had to use our united efforts to get him out of the house—he said at the station that he put the cloth in his bag, as he thought it would suit a customer.

Cross-examined. That was the first time he said that to my knowledge—I no not know now whether it was as stated in my deposition: "Mr. Clark said 'This is ours, and you have not paid for it.' He said 'I put in my bag because I thought it would suit a customer.' Mr. Brown then gave him in charge."

ALFRED BROWN . I am a member of the firm of Charles Meeking & Co. and manage the woollen department—I was not on the premises on 16th March, but a communication was made to me next day and I gave certain instructions—on 11th August, between 1.30 and 2 o'clock, a communication was made to me and I sent for the prisoner—he came to me in the counting-hause and I said to the policeman "We have reason to believe that this man has stolen some cloth"—I think the prisoner said "My God, you don't say so"—the constable told him to open his bag, he did so, and I called to Mr. Clark to identify the cloth which he did and I gave the prisoner into custody—he said "You will ruin me" or something like that—he wanted to speak to me but I would not allow it—he was very much excited and called after me as I went away.

MR. WILLIAMS submitted that there was no evidence that the cloth on 16th March was not paid for, in which the Court concurred. The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY on the second Count, strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-493

493. JOHN HUTCHINSON (43) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 5l. with intent to defraud.

MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLY the Defence.

ARTHUR LEE . I am a solicitor of 24, Martin's Lane, Cannon Street—previous to 31st July I had transactions with Mr. Anthony, a solicitor—I drew two cheques for 5l. on that day payable to the order Mr. J. H.

Anthony, this is it (produced marled A)—I gave it about 2 o'clock to the prisoner who I had employed to serve writs and told him to pay it to Mr. Anthony whose chambers are opposite to mine at 6, Martin's Lane—I think he had been there before to make payments—my bankers have debited me with the amount.

Cross-examined. I am the prosecutor—the prisoner said that he had business to do with Mr. Anthony and he should apply to him for some money in relation to some houses in Beresford Street, Walworth, which he had had to take possession of—he called again on Saturday but I was not there—Monday was a bank holiday and on the Tuesday I was informed that Mr. Anthony had not received the cheque and gave notice to the bank not to pay it—on the following Saturday a messenger called on me with the cheque and asked me if it was all right—I told him he had better go to Mr. Anthony—I took him there and he saw Mr. Anthony—I met the prisoner about a week afterwards and asked him what had become of the cheque as it had not been paid—he said "Oh, I will make that matter right with Mr. Anthony, I have Mr. Anthony's authority to sign for him"—I believe the bank has debited me with the amount of the cheque—I did not give the prisoner in custody or take any proceedings—I was communicated with by the bank; I declined to institute proceedings and stated my reasons in writing—there are money matters still outstanding between me and the prisoner.

Re-examined. I have sustained the loss, but I think the bank took the responsibility on themselves.

By MR. KELLY. I have not seen the account expressly debited with the cheque because the pass-book is kept in a peculiar way, but there is ft witness from the bank here.

WILLIAM PURCHASE . I keep the ship Tavern, Vauxhall Bridge Road—on 2nd August the prisoner who I did not know came in with a man who I knew named Shield—the prisoner asked me if I could cash this cheque (produced)—I had just cashed a cheque and told him I had not enough gold—Shield said "Could you give us part of it"—I said "It is not endorsed"—I put pen and ink out and the prisoner put "T. H. Anthony" on the back of it—I said that I could give 3l. and the prisoner said "I suppose you will give me an I O U for the remainder," and upon that I handed him the cheque back and would not do it—Shield brought the cheque back in twenty minutes or half an hour, but I did not see the prisoner again that night—I gave the 5l. to shield and the cheque went into my banking account.

AUGUSTUS SHIELD . I am clerk to Messrs. Ridgway, of 31, Ponsonby Place, Vauxhall Bridge Road—I have known the prisoner casually for three years—on 2nd August I met him at my father-in-law's, and he asked me if I could get a cheque cashed, and I said I thought so—he owed me some money—I took him to the shop having known Mr. Purchase some years—he asked Mr. Purchase to cash the cheque—he said there was no endorse—ment on it—I asked for pen and ink, and the prisoner endorsed it "T. H. Anthony"—Mr. Purchase said that he had not sufficient cash, only 3l., and the prisoner asked for an I O U for the other 2l., and mr. Purchase re—turned him the cheque—I noticed the endorsement, and when we got to my father-in-law's house I said "John, that is not your name that you have signed"—he said "What do you mean 1l. you don't think I should be such a fool if I had not authority to sign that name"—I said "To me it is an

apparent forgery, but if you assure me that you have authority to sign that name I will get you the cash"—he said "I have authority;" and I went to Mr. Purchase, got it cashed, came back to my father-in-law's, and placed the five sovereigns on the table in front of the prisoner, and he took it up—I left the house a quarter of an hour afterwards.

ARTHUR LEE (re-examined.) I drew two cheques—this (produced.) is the second (marked B).

FREDERICK GERHARD . I keep the Hour Glass, Thames Street—on 31st July in the afternoon, the prisoner, who I knew, brought in this cheque (B), and asked me to change it—I objected because it was the first time I had seen one like it, but he told me it was as good as the Bank of England note—a gentleman by me said "You can change that cheque, it is right enough," and I gave him the money—I had I believe cashed cheques for him once or twice before—my wife subsequently saw the cheque in the cash box.

Cross-examined. I believed she endorsed it J. H. Antony—I did not see that on it when I cashed it, and she told me that she wrote it.

JOHN GOODWIN . I am one of the cashiers of the Cheque Bank, Pall Mall, East—customers deposit so much money and receive cheques for the value, so that we always pay the cheques—I do not think the loss in this case will be paid by the Cheque Bank—Mr. Arthur Lee is a depositor there—I do not know what has passed, but his account is debited with the amount—these two cheques A and B were issued to him.

JOHN HOLLIS ANTHONY . I am a solicitor of 6, Martins Lane, Cannon Street—on 31st July Mr. Lee owed me I do not know exactly what—but it was more than 10l—I see my name on these two cheques, but neither of them was handed to me—the cheque marked A is not endorsed by my authority—I did not authorise the prisoner to write this endorsement, and the same remark applies to cheque B which Mrs. Gerhard endorsed.

Cross-examined. On 31st July the prisoner was doing business for me, removing tenants from houses—I was at my office part of that day, but was absent in the afternoon—the business he did for me would probably require the services of men under him, and I should have allowed proper payments made by him—he had no authority to receive money for me from the tenants—there were not money transactions between us to that amount—I hold securities of his for 25l. and for 50l.—Mr. Lee asked me on I think the following Tuesday, if I had received the cheques—I saw the prisoner rather more than a fortnight afterwards, and I have only seen him once since—I made no charge against him on meeting him—I am not prosecut—ing him—he said that when the business he was doing for me was com—pleted he should expect 10l., and once before he said "I shall expect 5l"—I did not know that I was his debtor in that transaction, he had had money from me, and it would be matter of account—I possibly should have owed. him money.

Re-examined. I certainly did not authorise him to intercept cheques sent to me.

JOHN LEWIS (City Policeman 20). On 30th August I saw the prisoner in Cannon Street, and said "Mr. Hutchinson, I believe?"—he said "Yes—I said "I have received information that one of our officers holds a warrant for your apprehension for a forgery on the Cheque Bank"—he said "Yes, I thought the matter was settled; I saw Mr. Antony a few days ago and he said nothing about it"—I went with him to the Cheque Bank, and from

there I took him to the station, and found on him only some papers not relating to this case.

Cross-examined. I was misinformed, and there was no warrant, but the police were looking for him—no application was made for a warrant that I am aware of.


Reference Number: t18750920-494

494. JOHN HUTCHINSON was again indicted for a like offence, and also for stealing two bankers' cheques, upon which MR. GRAIN offered no evidence.


Reference Number: t18750920-495

495. ANNIE BROOKS (22) , Stealing a purse, twelve postage stamps, and 1l. 14s. in money, of William Paetzold, from his person.

MR. DALTON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM PAETZOLD (through an Interpreter). I am a watchmaker, of Rathbone Place—on Saturday evening, 4th September, about 11 o'clock, I met the prisoner in Hyde Park, and walked with her away from the path I under a tree—I promised to give her half a crown, but did not do so; as I only kissed her—I felt for the money to give her and missed my purse from my right hand trousers pocket, containing a sovereign, a half-sovereign, a new half-crown, a shilling, a few pence, and some postage stamps—I accused her in English of taking it—I said "You have my money"—she said something which I did not understand—I then found my purse in her hand under her shawl, and took it from her—there was then only 2d. and ten postage stamps in it—she went away fast, and I went back to my friends, who were about 15 paces off—I afterwards found her with a man and gave her in charge—on the next afternoon, about 3.30, I went with my friends to the tree and found two postage stamps on the grass—I did not feel the prisoner's hand in ray pocket.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was with my friends talking to two young women before you spoke to me—I did not offer you a shilling; I did not give you two single shillings—I never gave you a farthing—I could not understand you.

EMILE THEODORE MERKON (through an Interpreter). I am a watch—maker, of 34, New North Road—I was with Paetzold when he and the prisoner went away on to the grass—I could not see what took place, nor did I hear him say anything when the prisoner was there—he came back, and I was there when the prisoner was given in charge—she was walking fast—I went with him next day to the tree and found two postage stamps.

GUSTAVE ZUIGEL (through an Interpreter). I live in the Caledonian Road—I was with Paetzold on 4th September, when the prisoner passed us and spoke to us—he went away with her about 50 yards, and I heard him holloa out "You have got my money"—she went away and called out something which I did not understand—she showed her pocket, which contained five or six single shillings and some halfpence—a policeman came up and she was given in charge.

JOHN HEALEY (Policeman A 430). I was on duty in the park, at Stan—hope Gate, and the prosecutor gave the prisoner into my custody—I took her to the station, she was searched, and 2s. 7 1/2 d. in bronze was found on her.

Prisoner's Defence. I never had his purse. He was talking to two young women, and I asked him why he did not have them. His friend wanted to have me. I said "I can't now, when I come back perhaps I will."


OLD COURT.—Wednesday, 22nd September, 1875.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

Reference Number: t18750920-496

496. ALICE MARY ATTWOOD (23) , was charged, on the Coroner's Inquisition only, with feloniously killing and slaying her new born child, upon which MR. LILLEY for the prosecution offered no evidence.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, 22nd September, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-497

497. ALFRED MACE (27) and ALFRED CROSSLEY (28) , Burglary in the house of John Hayes Mintorn, and stealing therein a clock and other articles. second Count—Receiving the same.

MR. DENISON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BACON . I live at 33, Soho square, where Mr. Mintorn carries on business—I looked, over the premises on Monday night, the 30th August, at 11.30; about half an hour before I went to bed—when in bed I fancied I heard a noise similar to the breaking of a door—I was afterwards awakened by a ringing at the bell—I went down and found a police—man at the door—the front door was broken open, and an inner door on the right belonging to Mr. Mintorn—I went into the shop with the constable, and found the drawers upset and articles gone—I do not identify the clock.

JOHN SPRATLIN (Policeman C 21). I was on duty on the night of the 30th August last, in the neighbourhood of Soho square—about 2.15 I was called by a constable to No. 33—I found two marks from some instrument between the door and the door jamb—a piece of beading broken away near the small spring lock, and the bit that catches the spring broken off—the door had been opened—I went in and found the inner door completely forced away all round by some instrument—I went into the shop and found the desk had been ransacked—a drawer on the right of the desk had been drawn out, and the contents strewn about—two small cases at the back of the desk on a shelf had evidently been opened to see the contents, and left in a disordered state—constable Radley called up Mr. Bacon previously to my arrival.

JAMES O'DEA (Detective Officer). I was on duty on the night after the robbery (the 31st August) in company with Pickles, and saw the prisoners at the corner of St. Anne's Court and Dean Street, at about 10 o'clock—we followed them up Dean Street to Carlisle Street, when they went towards Soho Square—I walked slowly down to 61, Frith Street—there were three men altogether—one was on the east side of the Street, apparently watch—ing—they remained about two or three minutes—they then went to a public-house in Queen Street, where they stayed three or four minutes—they then came out, went along Queen Street, and turned into Frith Street again to Soho Square, and stood at the corner for some time, then past Charles Street, and stood there for about a quarter of an hour and sat on the railings—they then went to a public-house at the corner of Oxford Street—we then took them into custody—the third man when he saw we were following went away—Mace said he had only just come out of a public house, and had only been in the neignbourhood five minutes—Crossley said nothing—I told them we should take them into custody for loitering—I took Crossley, and the other constable took Mace—I found on Crossley this small bar (produced.), and a jemmy used by housebreakers—I

also found this cheque-book, an ordinary door key, and a small piece of gummed paper—larger pieces are usually used to put on windows to deaden the sound, when the glass is being cut with a diamond.

THOMAS PICKLES (Detective Officer C). I was with the last witness and saw Mace go into the second public-house—I waited while the last witness went for assistance—I came up when they were in Carlisle Street, after they were in custody, and Mace looked round and saw me, and he said "What is this for?"—I said "For being suspicious persons loitering about the neighbourhood"—a constable in uniform had got him—I searched him and found on him a latch key and two duplicates relating to his own pro—perty—nothing that concerns this charge—Mace and Crossley were not put in a cell together—Crossley sent for me at the police-station and said "I want to go to 103, Lillington Street, Pimlico, to see my wife, that man is a bad man—I met him to-night and he asked me to carry those things, but if I had known they had been the proceeds of a burglary I would have had nothing to do with them—I will tell the Magistrate all about it in the morning"—he did not mention what "things"—when the Magistrate remanded them, through their conduct before him they were ordered separate cells again—I was with Crossley in the yard, and I then said "There is a clock also taken from No. 33, Soho Square," and he said "Yes; I don't know what was done with it, it was of no value, and Mace broke it up and threw it away somewhere close by"—we made enquiries and the clock was found by a person who is here.

Cross-examined by Crossley. I did not say to you "The best thing you can do is to make a clean breast of it"—the jailor was present at the time.

JOHN HAINES MINTORN carry on business at 33, Soho Square, as an artificial florist—this cheque-book (produced.) is mine—I last saw it safe on Monday night, the 30th August—it was in the till drawer, nest the desk—there was no lock—this clock (produced.) I believe is my property—I could not swear to it—we had such a clock hanging up in a small room at the back of the premises—I have not the least doubt that it is my clock.

WILLIAM LONG (Policeman C 195). I was on duty on the night of the 30th August, and saw the prisoners about 11.30 together—I had seen them, together on previous occasion.

Mace's Defence. I met Crossley, about 10 o'clock that evening, and as I had to be at the corner of Charles Street some time after, we were just killing time by strolling about. The things belonged to the third man who went away; Crossley said "This man has picked up a cheque-book in Soho Square," and he gave it to Crossley, thinking a reward might be offered for it; I was not aware that he had anything in his possession; it is not likely I should have stood within twenty or thirty yards of a place where a burglary had been committed, had I known that.

Crossley's Defence. I have known Mace for some time, and the evening we were arrested I met him, somewhere between 9 and 10 o'clock; after we had strolled about together for sometime; he said to me "Just take care of these things for a little while; it won't do you any harm." While I was hesitating he said "Go on, its all right; in fact Mr. Pickles wants me, for one or two little things." I did not know what he meant at the time, but having known him, as I thought, as a respectable man, I took them and had not had possession of them, but a very little time when we were arrested. I said nothing when I was arrested, but after being searched and taken to the police-court, I sent for one of the detectives, and told him that

my wife being in delicate health I wished him to go and acquaint her of the—trouble I had got into, and told him that the chisel and cheque-book were given to me by Mace; I adhered to that statement before the Magistrate, and I do now. It was only last night that his friends offered me 5l., if I would say that I gave the things to him.


CROSSLEY— GUILTY on the second Count — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-498

498. JOHN FELTON (18) and EDWARD HIGH (17) , Feloniously and violently assaulting Jane Higgs with intent to rob her.

HIGH PLEADED GUILTY to the robbery without violence.

MR. THORNE COLE conducted the Prosecution.

JANE HIGGS . I live at No. 30, Greenwood Road, and am the wife of Mr. James Higgs—on the afternoon of the 10th August I was walking in the Greenwood Road at about 2.30, and bad a watch and chain with me, when I observed two men, one on either side of the road—one called to the other, and he immediately rushed towards me and snatched at my chain and broke it—I did not see their faces—I screamed very loudly and he ran away, and the other man asked him if he had got it and he said "No"—his companion made use of very bad language, and I screamed again, fearing he was going to attack me—then he ran away, and I followed him—both ran away—I lost sight of them as they turned the corner, but not before Mr. Fiestal had seen them—I called to Mr. Fiestal, whom I saw coming towards me, to stop the thief—I did not promise Felton a shilling to run after the thief and catch him—the prisoners were then taken into custody—I saw Felton taken, and the other was brought into the station when I was there.

JOHN CANE (Policeman N 54). At. about 2.30 on the afternoon of the 10th August I was in plain clothes in Greenwood Road with another con—stable, when I heard cries of "Stop thief!" and saw several people running, and saw Felton running—I saw a gentleman stop him, and he knocked the gentleman down, and then I ran after him—he turned round rather sharply and I caught him—he began to kick me—I did not say a word—he said he had knocked the gentleman down because he bad no right to catch him, or something to that effect—the prosecutrix came up and said "That is the man, one of the two who attempted to snatch my chain"—he heard the charge made and said nothing—I took him to the station—he kicked fiercely, but I kept out of the way, I was rather behind.

GEORGE SPLANE (Policeman NR 46). I was with the last witness in Greenwood Road—we were both in plain clothes—I heard cries of "Stop thief!" and saw Mr. Fiestal trying to stop him—Felton struck him in the eye and knocked him down, by that time the last witness and I arrived on the spot and took him to the station—he was very violent—High was not there at the time—he was afterwards brought in.

THOMAS FIESTAL . I am a clerk, and live at 17, Trelorne Road, Hackney—I was walking along the Greenwood Road and saw a lady, who beckoned to me—I saw two persons running past me, and I made away after them—they turned the corner and got into the Graham Road—I called out Stop thief!" and by that time I got up to Felton—he said "Leave go of me, the lady has promised me a shilling to stop the thief, and you are letting him go"—I said "That won't do"—he broke away and I ran after him again and put up my fist and endeavoured to make him stop and he knocked

me down—by that time, however, I had held him so long, the two police men in private dress came up and the other prisoner, I think, had gone into a garden.

Felton's Defence. I happened to meet the other prisoner, and the lady happened to be coming along, and he put out his hand and tried to get the watch and chain. When I got round the corner he met me full front. The lady was hallooing out. This gentlemen got hold of me. I didn't punch him; I shoved him away from me.

High. You knew very well I was going to take the chain.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment each.

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, September 22nd, 1875.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-499

499. CHARLES SCOTT (50), PLEADED GUILTY to three indictments for burglary in the dwelling-house of Joseph Kemball and others and stealing four coats and other articles, three coats and other articles of Alexander Cay, three pairs of boots and other articles of Edward Mincher, having been before convicted on 23rd April, 1867.**— Ten Years' Penal servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-500

500. GEORGE SANDERSON (48) , stealing between 1st October, 1871, and 19th July, 1875, 600,000 cubit feet of gas, the property of the London Gas Light Company.

MESSRS. BESLEY and J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. SERJEANT PARRY with MESSRS. MONTAGU WILLIAMS and MEAD the Defence.

JOHN ASHTON COOMBES . I am the draughtsman and assistant engineer to the London Gas Light Company—this model (produced.) of the premises, the hotel and the cellar in Pavilion Road, has been prepared under my directions and is as nearly correct as I was able to make it without access to the defendant's premises—I was instructed not to go near them—this (produced.) is an enlarged plan from the ordnance map—there are two open courts at the extreme end of the hotel which are shown on the model by white paper, all the rest is roofed in—this is the harness room—in Pavilion Street there is a small dwelling-house in the occupation of Mr. Davis, a bootmaker, and a small shop in the occupation of Mr. Sturch, a saddler—there is an entrance there by which access is gained to the cellar under Mr. Sturch's place and also under two other rooms, one a work room and the other a living room—Pavilion Road is the road above the cellar in question where the gas was being burnt—this is the flap of the cellar (describing)—I could see no communication between that cellar and the cellars of the hotel—the hotel is at the corner of Pavilion Street—the open courts at the back of the hotel, between the hotel and the cellar in question, are 14 feet across from wall to wall—from the wall of the harness room where the last gas light of the hotel is to the commencement of the cellar in question is 14 feet.

RICHARD FROST . I am now a licensed victualler and keep the Crown public-house in Crown Street, Soho—I was employed by Mr. Sanderson as cellarman from about March, 1871, to the 8th September, 1873—I was sometimes engaged in attending to the wines underneath the house 131, Pavilion Road; they were ports and sherries in casks—the means of access to the cellar was by a flap from the Pavilion Road—when

I first went there there were no means of warming the cellar at all—we always used candles—the cellar was dark—there was a door in it, but it was never used—it could not be used because the large casks were put against it—I remember the beehive apparatus coming to the hotel—I believe Mr. Sanderson was there at the time in the trap; I am not quite positive—the ring with the fish tail burners and the iron pan was brought with the beehive, but not the india-rubber tubing—I believe this (produced.) to be the same pan, but I don't think this earthenware beehive is the same, it was a larger one that was there before—the rim used to fit outside on to the feet of the stand—Mr. Sanderson told me to go to the shop of a man named Attridge to get a man to have the piping fixed—he did not tell me on that occasion for what purpose he wanted it fixed, but sometime before he said we were going to have something to warm the cellar with—some short time after I went to Attridge's the apparatus was put up in the cellar and fixed—this 3/4—inch tap at the end of the tube was made by somebody at Attridge's shop—I had nothing to do with fixing it on—it was fixed to a large pipe in the cellar—I was not aware that the pipe communicated directly with the main without any meter—I went into Mr. Sanderson's service in March and I think it was somewhere about October that this happened; I can't say, it is five years ago—a thermometer was pro—vided—after the apparatus was fixed Mr. Sanderson instructed me always to keep the pan filled with water when the gas was alight—before it was fixed I went to the cellar say once a fortnight and after it was fixed I went every day if the machine was alight—it was not always kept burning in the winter, it would depend entirely upon the weather—if it was very cold it would be burning all day, we only wanted the cellar at a certain temperature—it was turned off at this thumb tap, that is the only place I turned it off—I should turn it down to regulate the heat—in very cold weather it would be left burning all day and all night if necessary—the pan was always kept filled with water in my time—when the beehive was over the fishtail burners you could not see the light from a great distance—the pan stood on the floor of the cellar—I may be wrong in saying this is not the same beehive, very likely it is the same with the rim broken off—the apparatus was only used in cold weather to regulate the temperature—it could be moved about and put in any part of the cellar—there were 17 feet of tubing and that would reach to any part of the cellar—I bottled wine and did the ordinary cellarman's duty in the cellar—the prisoner was generally there when I was there—he came round once in the day at all events—I had nothing to do with the gas in the hotel part of the premises, it was regulated in the bar and I had nothing to do inside the bar—I could—not say whether the gas in the hotel was turned off at night, I did not sleep on the premises—the place next to the two open courts was used as a harness room in my time—that was lighted with gas—the gas in the harness room in my time was at the end nearest the cellar as it is now—the flap of the cellar in Pavilion Road was padlocked at night when we were done, it was fastened with a padlock and key—the flap was easily removed when we went down—I never had any serious trouble with it.

Cross-examined. This apparatus was used by Mr. Sanderson solely for the purpose of heating the cellar—when he spoke to me about it in the first instance, there had been several complaints that the wine, the port especially, had got sick from cold, and as far as I could judge, what was in his mind was the best way of obtaining heat in the cellar—I think now, that it is

quite likely that this beehive or jar is the one that was used in. the cellar—the rim at the bottom might have been broken off—if it had fitted on to this iron I should have had no doubt about it—I don't know whether that would be of service in concentrating the heat—there was a steam from the water, but it did not get hot—the water disappeared somewhere; it wants refilling every day if it is alight—we always continued to use candles in the cellar after this apparatus for warming was put up—it was only in the winter months that it was used, it would depend whether it was a long winter or not, how long was it used, say three months at the utmost—Mr. Attridge was a tradesman in the Pavilion Road—Mr. Sanderson appeared to know him very well—I knew he had an account with Mr. Sanderson—he was a jobbing man—I gave the order to Attridge in Mr. Sanderson's name—there was no concealment of any sort about it that I am aware of—I certainly did not conceal anything, and did not receive any orders from Mr. Sanderson to do so—I should not think the job of fixing the apparatus would take long—it was desirable that an india rubber tube should be used, so that it could be moved about to different parts of the cellar for the purpose of warming, and that was the reason that was used instead of a pipe—I was with Mr. Sanderson about two and a half years—sometimes I should be round at the cellars all day at work, bottling a pipe or a butt—the cellar flap would be open during the whole of the time—that has frequently happened in the winter and in the summer—if I heard the hotel bell ring while I was in the cellar at work, I should go round to see what they wanted, and the flap would be left open—Mr. Sanderson was well known in the neighbourhood—anybody could see him go into this cellar—he his—not disguise or conceal himself in any way—he used to come down while I was at work there—I knew that there was gas all over the hotel, and also in the stable, which adjoins the harness room—there is an open court between the harness room and the back of the cellar, and there was a door there leading to the cellar—I never saw that door open—I have been told that at one time the tap of the hotel was situated over that cellar, but I don't know it.

Re-examined. Candles were used in the ordinary course to give light for the purpose of bottling, and that was always so—when I was at work in the cellar men frequently came into the cellar on business, and also when Mr. Sanderson has been there—when I have been away to the hotel and returned I have never found any strangers there—nothing but cask wine was kept there.

By THE COURT. Mr. Sanderson has brought gentlemen down when I have been there, in the winter, when the gas has been burning, as well as. in the summer—I did not lock the cellar door every time I left—the gas pipe came out of the wall of the cellar, next the Street.

MARY PETITT . I am the wife of Thomas Petitt, and live now at 156, Pavilion Road, which is about twenty doors higher up on the opposite side to 131—when Mr. Sanderson had possession of these premises at 131 I occupied the parlour for about three months—I took the house in 1871, at the latter end of August, he keeping possession of the cellar—the cap of a piece of piping similar to this came into my parlour; the cap was visible—I remember Frost, the cellarman, coming to me on a Saturday, about the end of October, or the beginning of November, 1871—he asked me if he could get to the pipe—I had to move a child's bedstead, and I told him he must come up in five minutes—he came up, and he was along time with a large pair of pincers—that was about 1 o'clock—he went away and returned

again just before dusk—he had to bring a candle with him to finish it—he took the pipe away, and that left a hole which I could see down—I afterwards looked again, and that was the first time that I saw gas in the cellar—there was no escape of gas in my parlour after the pipe was taken away—at the time it was taken I looked down and I smelt gas, and that was the first time I saw gas there—it appeared to me to be little jets in a kind of gas stove—I occasionally looked through the hole afterwards; I put a cork in the hole—I was always timid of the gas, and one day I happened to take the cork out and looked through, and I saw Mr. Frost and Mr. Sanderson down there—I looked down because I knew they were there—I saw the gas burning, but not plain; there was a glimmer of light—there were crevices that I saw the light through—I saw it one night, about 12 o'clock, when I went to bed, and saw it when I got up in the morning—no gas was supplied to any part of my premises.

OSBORN SMITH . I live at Fawcett Street, Brompton—I was a barman and cellarman—I entered the defendant's service on 8th September, 1873—I succeeded Frost as cellarman; I left some time in April, 1875—the apparatus which has been produced was in the cellar when I went there, but it was not in use then; it was always used in cold weather to warm the cellar—I kept the pan supplied with water by Mr. Sanderson's directions—the gas was turned off at the thumb tap when the temperature was high enough—the tubing was attached to a large pipe in the wall—I certainly did not know that the gas was being burnt without passing through a meter—it was never turned off at the point where it joined the large pipe all the time I was there—during the winter months it was always burnt at night, and when it was very cold it was turned on full—I had to, fill the pan with water two or three and sometimes four times a week—Mr. Sanderson has been there occasionally when I have been there at work, but not very often—I slept in the hotel—when the gas has been turned off at the hotel I have found it burning in the cellar when I have gone there in the morning—Mr. Sanderson usually turned off the gas at the main in the hotel—he was the last one down at night—I used to put the key of the cellar in a drawer in the bar—I was barman as well as cellarman—there was no communication from any coal cellar in the hotel to the premises at 131, Pavilion Road—the coals at 75, Sloane Street we're kept next to the stable yard—the coal cellar was almost under the spirit cellar, adjoining the stables—you go through the kitchen of the hotel to get to the coal cellar—you could get to the coal cellar from the stables; they were always taken in through the stable gates—I did not give any information before I was subpoenaed as a witness—I left the service through illness—Mr. Sanderson told me to keep boards in front of the gas to keep the light from showing in the Street—that was when I first entered the service—I put some old champagne case lids across in front of the gas after receiving those directions.

Cross-examined. It was my honest impression that the gas passed properly through the meter—I did not say anything before the Magistrate about the boards being put up to prevent the gas being seen, because the question was not asked—the gas in the cellar was not liable to be blown out in any way—if you trod on the india rubber pipe it would go out in that manner, but the wind would not blow the light out—I am certain of that—I am certain the gas was wholly turned off at the meter, it was not partially turned off—I have never done it myself, or seen it done—there is

a disc in the bar, so that you can turn it right off or partially off—in the winter I have known that the gas has been left alight all night in the cellar when we have had a pipe of wine there, and the gas has been left alight in the bar as well—I have come down in the morning at 6 o'clock and I could not light the gas until I asked the barmaid to turn it on in the bar—I am not aware that it was laid on in the bed-rooms—there was none in my own bed-room, and I had not seen it in any of the others—I have not been up to see—I am not aware that there was gas in Mr. Sanderson's bedroom and in Miss Sanderson's—there might be—I won't undertake to say there was not—there was gas in the watercloset upstairs.

By THE JURY. I have been up in the watercloset when I went to bed, and it has been out—it was never burning all night there as far as I know.

GEORGE MURPHY . I live now at 13, Ashton Street, Stratford, and went into the defendant's service in August, 1871, as hall porter—shortly after I was there, I recollect going to the cellar in Pavilion Road—a piece of pipe, like that which has been produced, was removed, and the tubing was put on to the pipe which came out of the wall—this apparatus was attached to it, and gas was used after that—I have never seen gas burning in the hotel all night.

JANE MARTIN . I am the wife of Jonathan James Martin, and we rent the house, 131, Pavilion Road—we occupy four rooms—we have nothing to do with the cellar—there was a door to the cellar, but that was fastened up before we moved in—it has never been opened while I have been there, and that is about fourteen months—no gas has been supplied to the rooms which we occupied during that time—I have seen gas burning in the cellar through the cracks in the stairs.

RICHARD PEARCE . I am an inspector of the London Gas Light Company, and in 1860 I had charge of the Chelsea district—at that time, Pavilion Road was called New Road, and the house 131, Pavilion Road was then 97, New Road—we supplied gas to Edward Clements, saddler, who was the occupier of the house when I commenced the charge of the district—the meter was in the parlour, on the ground floor—a similar piece of pipe to this produced was used to bring the gas from the main which enters the cellar, an elbow was used to bring it up through the floor, and the meter was above that—it was a three-light meter—there were no fittings to my knowledge at that time in the cellar by which gas could be burnt there—Clements ceased to have gas on 2nd June, 1865, and the meter was brought into store—it belonged to the Company—a cap was put on the pipe where the tap had been—Mr. Larkin succeeded me in charge of the Chelsea district at the latter part of 1868—I personally superintended putting the cap on the piece of pipe in the parlour—the pipe was just above the level of the floor—after that no gas was supplied to the house during my charge of the district, and no application was made for any supply—I afterwards went to the Fulham district—this is my signature, and I witnessed the signature of Mr. Sanderson to this contract—at that time he used his own meter. (This was a contract for the use of a light meter and fittings thereto, twenty to thirty lights, own meter used, to commence on 4th October, 1865, it stated "the gas is not supplied except on a written agreement, and notice to be given to the Company of any new fittings or alterations, the interior of the fittings to be put up at the expense of the consumer."

Cross-examined. I have known the neighbourhood as far back as 1860

—I never knew the hotel when the tap was situated above the cellar, and I never heard of that—I found it as a saddler's.

Re-examined. It was occupied as a saddler's up to 1865—I don't know what it was after that—as we did not supply gas there we took no notice of the house—it is the invariable custom that the contract should be signed, only in certain cases we can't get it, and if the gentleman is out of town we should supply the gas till he comes back.

THOMAS DOMINICK TULLY . I am the superintendent of the London Gas Company—in every case of supplying gas to premises by the company we have a contract with reference to such premises—there is no contract at all with Mr. Sanderson, except for the Cadogan Hotel, 75, Sloane Street—he never to my knowledge applied to the company for a supply of gas to 131, Pavilion Road—I was not aware until July this year that he was burning gas in the cellar at Pavilion Road—the mains which supply gas to the Pavilion Road are separate mains to those which supply gas to the hotel in Sloane Street—I have ascertained since this prosecution commenced, as far as I could, that there is no communication between the premises of the hotel and the cellar of Pavilion Road—there has been no supply of gas charged by the company to the premises in Pavilion Road since 1865 when the meter was returned into store—I have had the district under my charge for nearly twentyone years—I never remember the house 131, Pavilion Road or 97, New Road, being used as the tap of an hotel—there are three or four entrances to the hotel, two on the side of Pavilion Street and, I think, two in Sloane Street, but none in Pavilion Road; it is a long way off—I should say that three houses intervene between the hotel and 131, Pavilion Road; I should call them three—on 13th July, in the evening,. I went in company with Mr. Neighbour and made some inquiries on the spot near 131, Pavilion Road—I noticed that the cellar flap was fastened with a strong iron bar and a padlock—I saw the person in occupation of the house—I afterwards made arrangements and on the 19th July I met a number of the company's officers and servants at the Sloane Square station and I made certain arrangements—I sent Mr. Neighbour into Pavilion Road and I went with Mr. Larkin and Bamford, a gas-fitter, to the hotel in Sloane Street shortly before 12 o'clock—I left a man named Bowers outside the door—we went into the bottle and jug entrance of the hotel and I instructed Mr. Larkin, he being known better, to give a card to one of the barmaids there—the barmaid left and we remained about ten minutes in front of the bar—Mr. Larkin spoke to one of the barmaids again and she left the bar and a very short time after that Mr. Sanderson appeared at a small wicket between the bar and the hotel—Mr. Larkin is the inspector of the company, and he said he wished to see the gas meter—he did not say who I was at that time—Mr. Sanderson said "Very well, you can go down, you know where it is," or to that effect—I went into the hotel cellar with Mr. Larkin and the gasfitter—I saw the cellarman, Boyt, who was doing something to a beer cask, either connecting or disconnecting a pipe; ordinary cellarman's work—there were two or three candles on sticks lying about the cellar—I spoke to Boyt and he left me saying "You had better see the governor," and Mr. Sanderson came down—I told him I was looking at the pipes—Mr. Larkin said, "I must apologise, I should have introduced Mr. Tully as the superintendent of the Gas Company to you"—said "I am looking at your pipes, you have a cellar in the Pavilion Road in your occupation, and I think I may as well tell you that I understand you are using the gas there, I wish to see how you get it, is there any communication

between this cellar and the cellar in the Pavilion Road, it is my duty to see how you get the gas in that cellar"—he said "There is a communication, but it is difficult to get at, you will have to go through the coal cellar"—I told him I must see it—he said "Very well, take a light," and he lighted one of the candles on a stick—he then went and spoke to Boyt and Boyt left the cellar; I did not hear what passed—Mr. Sanderson led me into a corner of the cellar; it was very dark and I assumed he was showing me the way—he pointed out a pipe and said "There is a gas pipe, that goes up to my daughter's bedroom"—I said "That is not the pipe I wished to see"—he pointed out another—Mr. Larkin remarked "That is water"—I said "That is not the pipe"—. Mr. Sanderson pointed out another and said "That is water also"—we were all this time in the corner of the cellar—there was a confusion of beer pipes and spirit pipes at that place—at that moment one of the company's men came partially down the cellar steps from the Pavilion Street side—he said "Mr. Tulley, you are wanted in the Pavilion Road"—I said to Sanderson "I am going into the Pavilion Road," and I asked Mr. Larkin to come, and I left the premises by the Pavilion Street entrance—Mr. Larkin and Bamford followed me and Sanderson—on reaching Pavilion Road I found the cellar flap up, and I found Mr. Neighbour and William Murphy, one of the company's men, there, and Boyt, the same man I had seen at work in the cellar of the hotel—Mr. Sanderson got down the cellar first, and he assisted me down—Mr. Neighbour put a light to this rim burner, and it ignited immediately—I told Mr. Sanderson I should take possession of all the apparatus now in court, likewise a piece of the company's service pipe which I found immediately under where the tube was connected—the tubing was attached to a 3/4 inch barrel service pipe of the company—this piece of iron at the end of the tubing is not a usual fitting, it has been made by some gas fitter to fit the service pipe—I told Mr. Sanderson I should take possession of these things—he said "Is there not a meter"—the thing was not then detached, and I said "Look for yourself, can you see a meter, I can see none"—he was about to make some remarks but I desired him not to do so—I told him I should report the matter to my Board when they met on the Wednesday following, and I should advise him to see the Board; at the same time I would not pledge myself that the Board would see him under the circumstances—he then asked me if I would object to accompany him into the hotel—I said "Certainly not"—I saw a screw hammer like this (produced) in Boyt's hand, in the cellar—such an ininstrument as that would unfix the fittings of nearly every gas pipe—the jaws will move, and will take any sized pipe—such a tool as that would unfasten the service from the main—you could not have better—when Boyt was attending to the beer in the cellar of the hotel, I think I saw one of those hammers lying behind him on a barrel—I did not notice whether Boyt took it up after Mr. Sanderson spoke to him, and when he left the cellar—I saw the pipe taken off and placed in the hands of the inspector, and I went to the hotel—Mr. Sanderson took me into the coffee room and said "You were kind enough to tell me when the Directors met, will you write it down for me?" I said "Certainly, I am very sorry for this, a man occupying a respectable position as you are"—I wrote down the particulars of the meeting, and the address—he then put his hands in his pockets and said "Well, what do you call it; what does it amount to?"—I said "Well, in the last case of a similar kind, it was called felony, and it amounted to

twelve months' hard labour"—he said nothing to that—I understood from him that it was his intention to be at the Board on Wednesday—this was Monday—I have experimentalised on the fish tail burners—the lowest day pressure we have is 10-10ths of an inch, and the highest 15-10ths of an evening—I have tested the india rubber tubing, and it leaked to the extent of a foot and a quarter per hour—there are several perforations in it—the four burners would burn at the rate of 14 feet an hour in the day pressure, and the night pressure would increase it about half—I made a report to the directors—Mr. Sanderson came to the office, but he was not allowed to see the Board—I have traced the pipe from the inside of the cellar to the main in Pavilion Road—there was no connection that I could see between the hotel cellar and the Pavilion Road cellar—it was possible to have a pipe through all those walls, but there was no such pipe—I traced it to its source.

Cross-examined. It was my information that was laid before the Magistrate by the company's solicitor—I was the chief officer—taking the supply of gas at the minimum, pressure from July 1870, to July, 1870,1 make it amount to 124l. 11s. 9d., that is supposing it to be burning day and night during the whole time—I had no other means of calculating; I took the entire time and the minimum pressure—it was increased 50 per cent at night, and I have not accounted for the leakage in the tube, which is continuous—a wrench of this kind is very much used by publicans, and it is used by gas fitters very frequently—I could not say whether it was closed or open when I saw it—I rather stopped what Mr. Sanderson was saying in the cellar—he did not say to me that he had acted in ignorance—I am quite sure of that—he said "What is the meaning of all this, does it not go through the meter"—I did not inquire whether the tap of the hotel was on that spot several years ago, my inquiries were as to the supply of gas—according to my inquiries there had been no gas in that house until it was laid on. For the saddler, and that was, 1860—I made an examination on the 26th August, to see if the gas in the cellar communicated with the hotel—I was' not ordered to do that by the directors—I did it on my own account as a responsible officer of the company—I employed two or three men for the purpose; three I think there were—they were at work about an hour and a half, or two hours—I was not with them all the time they were so occupied—I was there a portion of the time—that was the occasion when I removed the whole of the pipe between the cellar and the main.

Re-examined. That was after I had been examined as a witness at the police-court, and after I had sworn my information—I had no doubt at any time that the gas was taken from the Pavilion Road main, but after the prosecution commenced I thought I would take up the pipe—in the first instance information was given to the secretary, and the secretary communicated to me and I acted upon the information and made inquiries—a paper without a signature, was handed to me by the secretary.

WILLIAM NEIGHBOUR . I am assistant superintendent to the London Gas Light Company—I went with Mr. Tully, on 13th July, and again on the 19th, to Pavilion Road—I stationed myself at the doorway of 131, Pavilion Road—when I was standing at the corner of Pavilion Road and Pavilion Street, I saw a man coming towards me from Sloane Street—I had previously examined the flap door of the cellar, and it was locked—the man came up to the cellar flap—he had a wrench in his hand like this one—I did not see him make any use of it at the flap, but he unlocked the door and

removed the flap and entered the cellar—I followed him down immediately—I was with Murphy—when I got down in the cellar I saw the man on the left, close by this gas apparatus—he did not do anything to it—I asked him if he smelt an escape of gas, and he said "No"—that was said before Mr. Sanderson came.

Cross-examined. I was standing about 5 or 6 feet from the flap, when the man opened it—he knelt down and turned the iron bar over towards where I was standing, and I shifted about 2 yards further off—there had been a ring on the flap, but it was removed—it would not require any instrument to lift it—there was an upright piece parallel with the house. which the bar fastened, and that is on the flap, and when that is taken out the flap could be removed by putting your hand at the side—he did not say anything to me about opening the flap with the ring on that occasion—he spoke to me about it'last Thursday—there were four men waiting at the end of Pavilion Street, when the cellar flap was opened; Murphy and three others.

Re-examined. I did not see the wrench in his hand when he was opening the flap—I first saw it when he passed by me towards the flap—I could not see whether he used it to open the flap, his back was towards me—it took about two minutes to open the flap.

HENRY LARKIN . I am an Inspector of the Gas Light Company and have now the Grosvenor district, which includes the hotel in Sloane Street and also 131, Pavilion Road—from the receipts and memorandum put before me I have compiled an account of the consumption of gas at the Cadogan Hotel from 1869 down to April this year—this account (produced) is an exact copy of my book, and it agrees with the receipts which were produced at the police-court—whilst I have had charge of the district I have gone myself from time to time to see the meter—it is the duty of the servants of the company to take the index of the meter every quarter at the least, and sometimes more often—I had not the slightest idea that any gas was being consumed at 131, Pavilion Road—no application was made to me to put it on—Mr. Sanderson never applied to me for the extension of the gas from the Cadogan Hotel to the Pavilion Road—as a practical man, if I had to put on gas at 131, Pavilion Road, I should put it on from the main in Pavilion Road, and not from Sloane Street—from Pavilion Road would be the least expensive—I recollect being sent for on two occasions to see Mr. Sanderson with regard to the gas—we had a complaint that there was a bad supply of gas to the hotel, we went there and found the service pipe was stopped and remedied that defect—I saw Air. Sanderson on one occasion; I forget when it was—there was a second complaint as to the outside lamps not burning properly, and we found there was a stoppage in the pipe from the meter to the lamps—he never made any communication about the cellar in Pavilion Road—I accompanied Mr. Tully on 19th July—I gave a card to the barmaid and afterwards saw Mr. Sanderson—I went down in the cellar with Mr. Tully—I saw the man Boyt there—when Mr. Sanderson came down I said "We have come to see the meter, have you had any alterations made to the fittings lately?"—he said "No"—I said "None at all"—he said "No, only the lamps seen to"—I said "That I know, that was cleaned out"—he said "Yes"—I said "I mean any fittings going to the back"—he said "No"—Mr. Tully told him we had come to make an inspection of the pipes, knowing that he was burning gas in Pavilion Road, and he was asked whether there was any communication between the cellar where we

were and the cellar in Pavilion Road—he said he did not know, he hardly knew how the gas went—I saw a large 3/4—inch pipe running across the cellar—I said "Perhaps this would be it, it runs that way"—we traced that up to the end of the wall and lost sight of it—I suggested to him that perhaps he could show us where it went, and he said "Well, that must go upstairs"—that was into an ante room, which was a kind of butler's room where they wash glasses—he said "That is the pipe there, that goes to my daughter's bedroom"—he pointed to another pipe, and said "No, that is water"—he said "Yes, and that one is water too"—we retraced our steps into the vaults again, and Mr. Tully asked him whether there was any com-munication to the vault at the back from the front—he said "Well, yes, gentlemen, but it will be awkward to get at, it is by way of the coal cellar, you want a light"—we had a light and went as far as we could go, which was to the brick wall of the cellar under the hotel—I suggested then to Mr. Tully that we had better go round to Pavilion Road—I had seen Mr. Sanderson speak to Boyt—that was before he pointed out the pipe to his daughter's bedroom—Boyt left the cellar—he went towards the outlet, and we went further in—I did not see whether he took anything with him—Murphy came and we left and went to the other cellar—Mr. Sanderson went in first and Mr. Tully and myself followed—Mr. Sanderson helped us down—Mr. Tully called his attention to this pipe and connection that we found there, and ordered it to be taken possession of and the gas cut off—on the way from the Pavilion Street entrance of the hotel to the Pavilion Road we met a young man whom I had seen serving in the bar, and I heard him say to Mr. Sanderson "The horse has shot the stable."

Cross-examined. Mr. Sanderson was paying on an average between 50l. and 60l. a year for gas—he used some fish-tail burners in the hotel and some others—I think he has four patent burners in a chandelier over the bar—I don't know that he has as many as thirty in the house—I have not inquired or conversed with him on the subject—it was after the cellar flap was opened that the young man whom I had seen in the bar spoke to Mr. Sanderson—there were seven or eight gas men there altogether—when we went into the hotel cellar I introduced Mr. Tully to Mr. Sanderson—I said "I have been rather remiss, I ought to have introduced Mr. Tully to you as our superintendent"—this (produced) is one of the forms of receipts supplied by the company—they would be delivered every three months.

COURT to JANE MARTIN. In wet weather the cellar flap was difficult to raise after it was unlocked—I have seen Boyt open it at different times—he has opened it sometimes with a piece of iron, but I don't know what it was—I have seen all sorts of things used to shut and open it—in dry weather it opens much better.

THOMAS D. TULLY (re-called). I believe it was a fine morning—I can't say whether it had been raining over night.

SIDNEY BOWERS . I am foreman lamp lighter to the Gas Light Company—I was close by the hotel on the 19th July, and saw the cellarman Boyt come out with a screw-wrench in his hand; he was running—he went down to the bottom of Pavilion Street to Pavilion Road.

Cross-examined. I did not notice whether he had a key in his hand as well.

The prisoner received an excellent character.

GUILTY .— Three Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-501

501. WILLIAM WRANGHAM (63) and WILLIAM BRYANT (25) , stealing 20lbs. of opium, the property of William Wilkinson, from a vessel on the Thames.


MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES BRETT (City Detective). On 26th August, from information I received from Messrs. Batley & Watts, I went with Detective Brown to their warehouse in Whitecross Street—Wrangham came there with this parcel (produced)—Brown said "Where did you get that parcel from?"—he said "I had it from a man who brought it from abroad"—Brown said "Who is the man?"—he said he was outside and he gave a description of him—I went outside by a back entrance and saw Bryant at a public-house door in Fore Street—I brought him in, and Wrangham said "That is the man who gave me the opium"—Wrangham gave a correct address.

CHARLES BROWN (City Detective). I was with Brett at Batley & Watts' on 26th August—Wrangham brought in this parcel containing opium—I told him we were police officers, and asked him to account for the possession of the opium—he said a man gave it to him who brought it from abroad; he was going to sell it to earn a few shillings—I asked him where the man was who gave it to him—he said the man gave it to him in Red-cross Street that morning, and had come with him to Whitecross Stree—the gave a description of the man, and Brett went out and brought in Bryant—I said to Wrangham "Is that the man who gave you the opium?"—he said "Yes"—Bryant said "I gave you no opium, I know nothing about you; I don't know anything about no opium"—Wrangham said "Oh, yes, you did"—they were taken to the station.

TOM TOMLYN POTTS . I am a clerk to Messrs. Batley Watts, wholesale druggists, of Whitecross Street—on 25th August Wrangham came and offered a sample of opium for sale—he asked me 155. a pound for it—I asked him how much he had, and he said 20 1bs,—I requested him to leave the sample and call again—I communicated with the police—I was present on the 26th when Wrangham and the two constables were there.

JAMES HARRISON . I am warehouseman employed by the East and West India Dock Company in their drug department—it is my business to sample opium—in July last I was directed to sample twelve cases of Persian opium, which was marked M R I to 12—I can recognise this opium as a portion of the opium of the twelve cases for this reason; we generally sample with a sampling iron, which makes a circular hole, on this occasion my sampling iron was broken and I used my pocket knife, which makes a very different hole—it was subsequently sent to the brokers; it was nailed down, re-weighed, and sealed—these are the exact weights—each case bears a mark and number—the import mark is different from the export, as you will see from the note—they were delivered to a carman, who produced a proper order—I saw them delivered.

WILLIAM TIFFING . I am carman to Mr. N. R. Collier, Custom House agent and carman, of Lower Thames-Street—on 20th August I went to the East and West India Dock Company's drug warehouse with an order for twelve cases of opium—I received twelve cases packed ready for export and took them dieect to the Custom House Quay.

FRANCIS BURFORD . I am shipping clerk at the Custom House Quay—on 20th August I received twelve cases of opium which were marked with the export mark of "R 203 to 214"—they were weighed on the 21st August

for shipment; they were all in good condition when they were delivered to me—I delivered them to the lighterman of Phillips, Graves & Phillips in the way I had received them and he took them to the steamer—this is a copy of the weights.

GEORGE GOWEN . I am a lighterman employed by Phillips, Graves & Co.—on 21st August I went to Custom House Quay and received twelve cases of opium marked "R 203 to 214"—I took those as I received them to the steamship Ranger and got a clean receipt from the mate which means that the goods were in good condition and unbroken.

HENRY BROOKS . I am foreman stevedore to Carey & Co., who have a line of steamers trading between Custom House Quay and Rotterdam—I know Bryant under the name of Chandler, he has worked for me in discharging ships—on the 21st August I recollect twelve cases of opium coming on board the Ranger—he was employed under me on that day in the forehold where the opium was stowed—the Ranger sailed on Wednesday, the 22nd, for Rotterdam, it would get there about 4 o'clock on Monday morning and get back on the Thursday.

Wrangham's Defence. I told the truth at the first. I carried it for this man and I did not know it was wrong at all or I should not have iven my right address.


BRYANT received a good character— Three Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-502

502. THOMAS BROOKS (22) , Robbery with violence on Richard Hoad and stealing a chain from his person.

RICHARD HOAD . I am a carpenter—on 31st August I was coming home from the Agricultural Hall—I was walking in the road and the prisoner was on the kerb—he made a snatch at my guard and ran away—I ran after him and caught him—I suppose he must have struck me for I went down in the road and when I got up the police sergeant had got him—I don't know whether he knocked me down with a blow, I fell down in the road at any rate—I had had a glass or two, but I was not drunk—my hat was broken, but that might have been done when I fell.

JOHN ROWAN (City Serjeant 46). I saw the prisoner strike the prosecutor on the hat, knocking him down, in Golden Lane—I caught him in Beech-Street—I am sure he struck the prosecutor, that was the reason I ran after him—I found the chain in the left pocket of his trousers after I took him to the station—the prisoner might have been a little the worse for drink, but he could run well enough.

Prisoner's Defence. I was drunk at the time. I am very sorry. It is the first time I have been brought up for felony.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

OLD COURT.—Thursday and Friday, September 23rd and 24th, 1875.

Before Mr. Justice Field.

Reference Number: t18750920-503

503. MARY COOPER (35), AMELIA JENKINS (41), WILLIAM HANNAH (53), and ISAAC HUTCHINSON (34), were indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a will purporting to be the last will and testament of Emma Adolphus with intent to defraud.

MR. H. S. GIFFARD, Q.C., with MESSRS. POLAND and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution; MESSRS. BESLEY and J. P. GRAIN appeared for Cooper; MR.

CHARLES MATHEWS for Jenkins; MESSRS. STRAIGHT and SOULSBY for Hannah; and MR. E. THOMAS for Hutchinson.

JAMES KENEALY HEMP . I am a clerk in Her Majesty's Court of Probate at somerset House—I produce a will purporting to be the will of Emma Adolphus, dated 2nd July, 1872, also the affidavit of the two executrix, Mary Cooper and Amelia Clark, dated 20th July, 1872; also an affidavit of the attesting witness, William Hannah, dated 19th July, 1872; a joint affidavit of. Mary Cooper and Amelia Jenkins, of 12th and 13th October, 1874, termed an affidavit of scrips, and a copy of a former will of Emma Adolphus—I also produce the record of the proceedings in the Probate Court in June last—the cause was tried on 16th, 17th, and 18th—the plaintiff was Frances Adolphus and the defendants were Mary Cooper and Amelia Jenkins—the issue for the Jury to determine was whether the will of 2nd July, 1872, was the will of Emma Adolphus or not—the Jury found against the will, and probate was revoked with costs—I produce a copy of the will and six papers alleged to have been written by Mary Cooper during the progress of the trial—I also produce a certified copy of the will of sir Jacob Adolphus and two letters of Fanny Adolphus.

MATTHIAS LEVY . I am a shorthand writer, I was present on 16th June last in the Probate Court when the case of "Adolphus v. Cooper and others," was tried—I took notes of a portion of the evidence given by Amelia Jenkins, she was sworn—I produce ray original notes and a transcript—I have compared the transcript with the original notes and it is correct, from page 25 to the end of page 46—I was also present on 17th June and took the evidence of William Hannah, he was sworn—I produce my notes and transcript of his evidence, it is correct.

CHARLES BENNETT , Jun. I am a shorthand writer—I was present in the Probate Court on 16th June when Amelia Jenkins was examined, she was sworn—I took a portion of her evidence—I produce my notes and a correct transcript, commencing at page 47 down to 92—I also took the whole of Mrs. Cooper's evidence from page 62 to the end of 91—on the second day I took the evidence of Hutchinson, he was sworn in the usual way—I produce my notes and a correct transcript from p. 8 to 24. (The transcript was put in and read at length, the substance of Jenkins' evidence being that nine or ten years ago she became acquainted with the deceased Miss Adolphus who was suffering from a painful disease, and that she had constantly attended upon her in conjunction with Cooper, with whom she went to lodge October, 1871, in Queen's Road, Bayswater; that she had no friends or relatives visiting her and that she had promised to provide amply for them for their kindness and attention; that the, will in question was written by the deceased partly on 1st and partly on 2nd July, 1872, in the presence of herself and Cooper and witnessed by Hannah and Hutchinson, who were in the room while she was finishing the will. Cooper's evidence was to the same effect, detailing with great minuteness the mode in which the will was written, and Hannah and Hutchinson's was to the effect that they were called in by Cooper to witness the will and saw the deceased writing a portion of it as she sat in a chair near the window.)

EDWARD GASPAR BOX . I am a clerk in the Record and Writ Office—I produce an original affidavit purporting to be made by William Hannah and Isaac Hutchinson on 19th March, 1875. (This was an affidavit detailing the circumstances under which they attested the will. The following memorandum on the former will was read:—"This is kept merely by way of hint

to make some other if I should wish to do so, but it is no will of mine at all—I don't know that I wish or care to make one, and to-day there is no time; any I should make would leave things much as they now naturally are."

JOSEPH ADOLPHUS MCGRATH . I am a Doctor of Medicine at Tynemouth—the late sir Jacob Adolphus was my great uncle and godfather; the deceased Emma Adolphus was my first cousin once removed—she was about fifty-six years of age at the time of her death—her father and brother bad both died before July, 1872—I am not aware that she had any relation in England except myself—she had relations in Jamaica—I last saw her in May, 1867—I produce some letters in her handwriting, thirteen separate sheets—these three (produced) are also in her handwriting, they are addressed to Miss James—this letter addressed to the bankers on 13th December is in her handwriting—she was highly educated—I do not believe the alleged will to be in her handwriting—I am not at all interested in the event of intestacy.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. When I last saw her in May, 1867, it was at her house in London—I came to London again in 1868 and went to the address that I had previously been to, in Rifle Terrace, Queen's Road—I found she had left, and found no trace of her, I never saw her again—she has several cousins in Jamaica I believe, I don't know how many.; she has seen some of them; I don't know how many years ago—I can hardly say how many years ago it is since she left Jamaica, it must have been before 1833—I think some of her cousins from Jamaica were in England from 1840 to 1846—the last letter I received from her was on 10th June, 1867.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I never saw the letters to Miss James till just now.

DANIEL LAY . I am a clerk in the house of Messrs. Robarts, Lubbock, & Co.—I knew Miss Emma Adolphus—she was in the habit of drawing cheques in the ordinary way up to about March, 1872—I remember her being at the bank in March, 1872—I produce a cheque dated 7th March, that cheque was filled up by sir John Lubbock himself for her to sign—I got the cash for it and took it into the room where Miss Adolphus was sitting—the earliest cheque I have here is 12th January, 1872—I don't think we have any of the 1871 cheques here—I have produced the document of January 12th, 1872, addressed to the bank which Dr. McGrath spoke to, also a cheque of 23rd January; that has on it "October 8th, 1872," that refers to the April dividend—I also produce a cheque of 8th March in Miss Adolphus's handwriting, one of 9th March with a memorandum at the corner "sent on 13th," and one of 27th March—I produce a number of cheques which were paid.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. Miss Adolphus had an account with us for many years—I cannot give you any idea of the payments in and drawings out during 1870 and 71—the ledger would show it, I have it not here.

WILLIAM RAIT COOPER . I am a clerk in the firm of Robarts, Lubbock & Co., bankers—I knew the late Miss Adolphus for several years—she was in the habit of coming to the bank to cash cheques—I heard of her death in July, 1872—I remember her being at the bank early in the previous March—she was then very feeble and very blind, her eye sight was very bad indeed, if she was not perfectly blind—I had previously noticed that her sight was getting very bad; on this occasion it was very much worse—I led her out

of the bank on that occasion, and led her to a cab at the door; that was on account of her bad sight—she could not have gone through the office without assistance, in consequence of the state of her sight—I told her where the steps were, and assisted her down the steps, and then took her to the cab; she could not see the steps—I left her in charge of the cabman; that was the last time I saw her.

WILLIAM HALL SEABORNE BROWNE . I live at 2, William Street, Lowndes square, where my step father Mr. Rogers is a hosier—I knew Miss Adolphus upwards of twenty years—I saw her in the April before her death at Queen's Road, where she was living—she was then very feeble, and her sight was very much impaired, very feeble—I had frequently cashed cheques for her before that—the last time she asked me to do so was at the end of April, ' 72—I did not cash it, it was so badly written I thought probably it would never be understood—I saw her attempt to write several cheques three or four times, but I would not take them, they were not legible; they might have been legible, but I did not care to take them—from what I saw and knew of her, I think it is very questionable whether she saw either the paper or anything—she might have felt it—that was the last time I saw her attempt to write a cheque—the last time I had seen her before that was probably six weeks or two months; her sight had gradually become worse during the last twelve months—I could not define it to sis weeks or a month—the last time I saw her her sight was worse than I had ever seen it—I had never before that failed to take her cheque.

THOMAS CLELLAN . I am clerk to Mr. spier, the solicitor, who was acting for Miss Adolphus, the plaintiff in the Probate Court—at the trial in June last I saw the prisoner Mary Cooper in court write the word "Queen's" several times—after her examination the Judge desired that she should sit down and write the word at her leisure several times, he would not allow her to do it in the middle of her cross-examination—she wrote it on these six pieces of paper.

ADOLPHE MARCHANT (Detective sergeant). I knew Inspector Pay—he died last Sunday morning—I saw him dead on Tuesday—I arrested Mrs. Jenkins on 24th July in Paris—I don't know whether Inspector Pay arrested the others, he held the warrant—he was examined at the police-court, the prisoners were present and had an opportunity of cross-examining him—when I took Jenkins I told her that I was a police officer and that there was an extradition warrant for her arrest for complicity in having forged and uttered the will of the late Miss Adolphus—she said "How could I possibly have anything to do with forging a will when I can hardly read or write." (The deposition of James Pay was read as follows: "I am an inspector of the detective police at Great Scotland Yard—about 8.30 at night on the 28th I went to 23, Inverness Terrace—I there saw the prisoner Cooper—I said "I believe your name is Mary Cooper"—she said it was—I said "I hold a warrant for your arrest" for forging a will"—I read the warrant to her—she made no answer to the charge—I then went to a beer shop in Market Street, Edgware Road, and there saw Hannah, I called him outside, saying I wanted to speak to him—I then told him I had a warrant for his arrest for forging a will—he made no answer—I brought both prisoners to Bow Street police-station, and there they said nothing to the charge—on the night of the 4th instant, at 9 o'clock, I went to 2, Inverness Terrace, Bayswater, and in the kitchen found Hutchinson—I said "I am a police officer and hold a warrant for your apprehension"—I read the warrant

—he said "I wrote to sir Thomas Henry to say I would give myself up as I had nothing to fear; I went to the Court to day to give myself up, but finding the other prisoners had been again remanded I went away again, as I did not want to be imprisoned for a week"—I brought him to Bow Street police-station, and he made no answer to the charge.

DANIEL LAY (re-examined). I can now tell by reference to the ledger what Miss Adolphus' payments were, in and out, in the two years prior to her death—it was something like 250l. a year; the gross payments in, and all drawn out very shortly after the dividends were paid in—on 1st July, 1872, the balance was only about 4l.—I believe the account in 1872 was dealt with pretty much as in former years—from March to July, 1872, the cheques were drawn more rapidly; I believe on one occasion two were drawn in one day, and four or five in one week; that was unusual, the previous account was not so rapid.

WILLIAM DANCE . I am clerk to Messrs. Mercer & Mercer, solicitors, of Copthal Court, City—I know all the four prisoners'—on 4th July, 1872, Cooper and Jenkins, then Mrs. Clark, came to the office, together—they saw me and Mr. Mercer—they brought with them the will that is now the subject of inquiry—they handed it to me and gave me instructions to obtain probate on it—I took their instructions and afterwards prepared the affidavits that have been produced—a caveat was entered by Dr. McGrath, and afterwards withdrawn—I saw the other two prisoners, the attesting witnesses; the will not being signed in the ordinary way, it was necessary that one of the attesting witnesses should make an affidavit that the signature in the attestation clause, or in the body of the will as the case might be, was intended as her signature, that is under Lord St. Leonard's Act; it is the practice at the Registrars' Office to require it—the will has the affidavit annexed to it, to the effect that it was executed by the testatrix on the day of the date thereof by signing her name in the attestation clause thereof, meaning and intending the same for her final signature to her will as the same name appears thereon—on 19th July, Hannah came to the best of my belief with Mrs. Clark; I am not sure whether Cooper came—I went generally into the matter with him as to how the will had been made, and he told me substantially the same as he told me afterwards when the caveat was entered, and on the 20th the affidavits were prepared for the two executrix—the caveat was entered on 29th July; that was communicated to Cooper and Jenkins, and they came to us and I arranged that they should bring the attesting witnesses on the 12th, and on the 12th the four prisoner's came together—I then took down Hutchinson's statement, of which this is the substance, they were all in my room together—the statement I took from Hutchinson, was substantially the same as that which Hannah had previously told me—I afterwards read it over to Hutchinson and Hannah, listened to it at my request—when Hutchinson had signed it, I asked Hannah if it was right, and so on, and he slightly corrected it as you will see, the only correction was, "I had known her by sight some two or three years"—it was an addition, not a correction—the caveat was never withdrawn in terms, we warned the caveator to enter an appearance, he did not, and upon an affidavit of service of the warning, the probate passed through the registry—proceedings were afterwards taken in Chancery, with reference to the will, it was a petition to deal with the fund which was in Court; that assumed the validity of the will; that was in November, 1872; the petition was presented by Mrs. Clark, and Mrs. Cooper, was

made a respondent—I have not got the petition here—I have the order that was made upon it, dated 17th January, 1873, by Vice Chancellor Malins, directing a payment out on the petition. (This was an order to transfer the sum of 3,000l. odd to Mary Cooper, and the residue to Amelia Clark). That 3,000l. was capitalised upon a calculation of what the value of Cooper's annuity under the will was, there was a subsequent order of 20th February, 1874, which dealt with the fund of Edwin, the son of sir Jacob Adolphus, that order transferred to Mrs. Jenkins' trustees, the sum of 5,644l. 11s. 6d. 3 per cent., that all went to the trustees; she had at that time married again, and this was under the marriage settlement—Mrs. Cooper took no interest in that; she had already capitalised her annuity—in July, 1874, there were adverse Chancery proceedings with a view to stop the fund, and a bill was filed by the subsequent plaintiff in the Probate Court—I then prepared these affidavits for the deponents who respectively swore to them, Hannah and Hutchinson, with a view to resist the application made in Chancery; I took the statements which they had made to me, and put it in the form of an affidavit and sent a clerk with them to get them made by the deponents—those are the affidavits of 15th July, 1874—I produce two cheques of 10l. each, dated 4th July, 1872, the day the testatrix died, payable to Mrs. Cooper, and signed Emma Adolphus—those have not been paid—they were given to me by Mrs. Copper, or Mrs. Clark; I can't say which at this distance of time, at, or a few days after they brought the will—I find by my entry at the time that on 12th July, I went to Robarts, and took the cheques to identify myself with the business, they not knowing me; I conferred with one of the principal clerks there, and he gave me some information as to the state of the account, and as far as my memory serves me there was not sufficient to meet either of the cheques at that time—the first affidavits were made on 15th July—the second ones were prepared pretty much in the same manner, they all rested upon the original statements made to me by Hannah and Hutchinson; by Hannah, in the first instance, and Hutchinson, in the second.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I cannot give the exact day when these cheques were brought to me; it was after the 4th of July—the first interview was on the 11th—if I went to the bank on the 12th, I must have had them on the 11th—I think Cooper told me that Miss Adolphus was in the habit of having cheques drawn out before they were wanted, and signing them, so that Cooper could use them when required—I can't say positively whether it was Cooper or Jenkins said that, but they were both there—I feel sure it was Cooper—I retained possession of those cheques, and attached them to the affidavit—I did not go to the bank with the object of getting the money for the cheques, it was rather to obtain information as to the nature of the thing.

Cross-examined by MR. C. MATHEWS. Some day in September, Cooper and Jenkins brought me a cancelled will of Miss Adolphus, dated 6th March, 1845; before that Cooper had brought me a certified copy of sir Jacob Adolphus's will, stitched in brown paper—I can't give the date when that was brought; it was brought by them together—when Mrs. Clark first came, she was not able to read, she told me so, but that she could just write a little, she thought she could manage to do her name.

Cross-examined by MR. SOULSBY. I first saw Hutchinson on 12th August, the day I took down the statement from him—he did not come with Hannah

on 19th July—it was by arrangement that he came on 12th August—the affidavits are all in the common form.

By THE COURT. That is what they are called in the Probate Court—it is called obtaining probate in the common form—the affidavit by the attesting witness would certainly be a special affidavit.

CHARLES CHABOT . I have for many years made the study of handwriting a business—I was applied to some time in March, 1875, to form a judgment upon the subject of the handwriting of Miss Emma Adolphus, and the handwriting of the alleged will—I was examined in the Probate Court on the subject—I have formed a judgment that the will is decidedly not the same handwriting as the admitted handwriting of Emma Adolphus—the materials upon which I proceeded were several original letters which have, not been photographed; these are the letters produced by Dr. McGrath they are marked consecutively from A to O, in my handwriting—these three letters in an envelope were put into my hands by the Treasury—I have seen the originals of all Miss Adolphus's cheques, the cancelled will, and the—originals of all the documents photographed from A to R, but there are some exceptions which I have to make to the document marked K—with that exception these are all the documents I have seen in the handwriting of Emma Adolphus—the documents that I have seen in the handwriting of Mary Cooper, are the copy of the will, the six specimens of the word "Queens" which she wrote in the Probate Court, and the bodies of the cheques from R to Z—I have seen once the two cheques that have been produced to-day—I should like to look at them again (they were handed to the witness)—my judgment is formed upon them as well as the others—I can give you general reasons why the will could not have been written by Emma Adolphus, in consequence of her defective eye sight—on 13th December she alludes to her failure of sight, in her own handwriting—I have seen the documents admitted or proved to be in her handwriting from that date forwards, and I can trace the failure of sight in the writer—they show that her sight got rapidly worse; there is no trace of any temporary improvement—the later documents evince that she became almost totally blind, if not quite, I should think quite blind, but certainly any one who was quite blind could write quite as well; that is any one who had been accustomed to write; in fact, I am surprised, looking at her handwriting, that she did not write better when blind—in document G, you will find the word "has," the pen entirely fails of ink in the middle; that evinces that the person was blind—at the bottom of the page, she writes "Miss Adolphus"—immediately after writing the "A" the pen fails of ink, but she still continues to write—then in writing the word "compliments" the "t's" fail of ink—any person who could see would naturally take a dip of ink then, but the "t's" is written without any ink at all—in document H you will find the same, in "Messrs. Robarts," and in the word "convenient," and in all the later documents—there are two or three very glaring instances in document I, showing strong evidence that the person could not see, and the same thing occurs both in M and N—in L, 0, and P there are none of those traces of want of ink; those documents are written with a steel pen which does not open so much, the ink in it lasts longer than in a quill pen, at least I think so—I observe in Miss Adolphus' writing where she has lifted the pen she has not been able to resume the writing at the proper point, except by accident; you have instances of that in G, H, and J, in the word "Queen's" and in "Road," and the writing is

scattered all over the page in H and J; then after that, becoming conscious of that, she keeps her hand on the paper as long as she can; for instance, in K you will find "132, Queen's Road" all written by one operation of the pen, also "London, March," evincing a desire not to break oft", feeling that she could not find the place again—the word" continuous" expresses my meaning—in Q there is the same "ten pounds" she has taken her pen off, but the junctions are made most inaccurately; she has made the "0" by two operations of the pen, but there is no junction, she cannot see where she has put down the pen again—the middle "0" in the shilling place is joined accurately at the bottom, but that is accidental—in photograph H she has lifted her pen to cross the "t" in "convenient," that is done very well, but that is the last instance of it, never after that does she cross the "t" by a separate operation of the pen, but by taking it across from the bottom of the letter—the word "ten" in L is not written by her in my judgment—in B and D the small "i" is dotted and in photograph F, but there is no instance of that in any subsequent document—I have omitted one of the strongest instances of Miss Adolphus' failure of sight, which is in document Q; in the numerals 132 she has added another 2, making it 1322—I think that is a positive demonstration that she could not see; that is plainly and blackly written, and if she could see at all she must have been able to see that—the same thing occurs in "Bayswater," the letters override each other constantly—now, taking the will, I judge from that that the writer was able to see perfectly well, as well as you or I, I am sure of it—where the pen of the writer of the will failed of ink the writer perceived it immediately, as in the following instance with the "h" in "bequeath," line 8, you find at the end of the h the pen fails or opens, and the next letter, the a in "all," which follows it is written as black as possible, evincing that a fresh dip had been taken; and in the a in "seal" in the next line you find the pen opens and fails of ink, and the 1 is quite black—in the small in "be" in line 12 the pen writes pale, and the nest word is perfectly black—again at the in "Queen's," line 14, the pen fails, and you will observe in that particular instance that the junction is made very accurately, the upstroke is taken up again exactly where the pen had been taken off; the misplacing of the words which occurs in the will is, in my belief, intentional; for instance, in the sentence, "This is the last will," the word "will" is written above the word "last"—at line 11 of the first page the words "Mary Cooper of" are written on a curved line; that curved line is guided by the line immediately preceding it, by the words "shall be entitled," so that the person could see perfectly well to do that, and that line again follows the curve of the preceding line, so that the sight of the person had been influenced by each line—a similar observation may be made with respect to the next page, lines 9, 10, 11, and 12 follow the same curve, and the spaces between the words are as they would be made by a person who could see, as contrasted by the admitted writing of Miss Adolphus where the words are huddled together or separated by irregular and unnatural spaces—in the later documents of Miss Adolphus I have shown that she kept her hand on the paper as long as possible; now throughout the will the pen is continually lifted, as in the word "testament," the pen has been lifted after the s, and all through the will each word is apparently separate and distinct, there is not a single instance of two words being joined together, they may touch accidentally, as in the words "the last will and testament of," but the pen has been lifted before writing the word "of"

—in the word "and" at line 2 you will find in the upstroke connecting the "n" and the "d" the pen has been lifted after forming the n, and it is put down again very accurately, and in "Bayswater," at line 5, after forming the pen has been taken up and the upstroke continued exactly in its right place, no one could continue it more accurately—there is a very clear instance in the word "Queen's" at line 14, and I could point out a number of such instances, not only in the upstroke, but the down stroke—the down-stroke of the in the second word of the will has been lengthened exactly in its place, and in the word "testament" in line 2 them has been lengthened—all the letters t in the will are crossed by a separate operation of the pen and never taken from the bottom of the letter, except perhaps in one or two doubtful instances at the end of a word—there are thirty-six small letters it in the will, twenty-seven of them are dotted, and with one exception all are dotted with dots in their proper place immediately over the letters, indicating that the writer possessed a clear vision, the one exception is in the word "said" at page 3, line 4, the 1 there is out of place, there may be two dots to it, most likely it is so, because I notice that the will is not punctuated—every line of the first and second pages of the will appears to begin at the proper distance from the edge of the paper, and there are several instances at the end of the lines where the writer has apparently compressed the character of the writing in approaching the edge of the paper, just like any writer would do—I don't find that the writing has been gradually diminished, because I think it has been the object of the writer to write a large hand; at the bottom of page 2 the final "s" in "Adolphus is diminished"—the capital "B" in "Bayswater" is unlike any capital B written by Emma Adolphus; the word "Bayswater" frequently occurs in the will, and the B finishes on a down stroke, but in Miss Adolphus's writing it is clear of the down stroke and joins with the a—in every instance of the word Bayswater she has joined the B with the a—the capital J in the third page of the will is unlike any capital J formed by Emma Adolphus—there are two J's in the cheque B, and again in cheque C a different form of J altogether—the J in "July" appears to be of a person not very familiar with handwriting—the capital N in the word "Names" is the last word of the will is formed more like a capital V, and unlike any capital N of Emma Adolphus—you see one of her N's in the word Number in both the cheques B and C, and she has made an enlargement of the small n in the document A, line 12; that is a very different N from the N in the will—she makes the N in two ways, but in no instance does it resemble a V, and I never saw one before, it is very peculiar. The capital letter Q occurs three times in the will, made like a capital U, that is still more distinctive, and certainly not like any capital Q by Emma Adolphus, her Q's are particularly plain and made like a Q in the orthodox manner—the word "Queens" comes several times; in photograph G you will find a Q at the top, and still plainer in document I at the beginning, it is a plain Q made in the proper manner, looped at the bottom; she always makes it in the same way—the writer of the will seems totally unacquainted with the form of the letter Q at all, both as a capital and a small letter—it is made improperly; a small q occurs only twice in the will in the word "bequeath" in line 8, it is made like a "y," and in line 10 of the last page like a "j," in neither instance like a properly formed q. There are five instances in the will where the word "in" is written with a capital I; Miss Adolphus never wrote the word "in" in the middle of a

sentence with a capital letter—there are three instances in the last page of the will in the sentence "in the presence of us the undersigned who in her presence and in the presence of each other," and there is no such thing in Emma Adolphus's writing—the numeral 3 in lines 4 and 14 of the will is unlike her numeral—I cannot find an instance of a 3 finished in the same way; there is something indistinct about it; here the 3 is finished with a strong dash of the pen—there are several 3's, and in the fourth line of the will it is finished very distinctively indeed, in a very bold and emphatic manner—in the third page of the will the name "Adolphus" is written without the letter I; I think the person who wrote that was going to write "Adop," and the first stroke of the p has been converted into an 1, refering to the proper mode of spelling it; but the 1 is omitted altogether—I have formed a judgment as to whose handwriting the will is—I have no doubt it is in the same handwriting as the copy of the will and the body of the cheques R to Z, and these six specimens—my reasons for saying so are the capital N formed like a V in the word "Names" in the last line of the will, also in the abbreviation "No" for "Number" in photograph K, in the cheques from R to Z, and in the two cheques produced this morning, the N is like a V—the best instances of it are in the cheques T, U, and V—in the copy of the will proved to be in Cooper's writing the word "Queens" occurs in three instances, and in each the Q is formed like a capital U in the same manner as the Q in "Queens" in the fourteenth line of the will—I have looked at the six specimens of the word Queens written by Cooper at the Probate Court; in one instance in No. 3 she has formed a small q like a y, and in Nos. 4 and 5 it begins like a y, and where it is in a capital it is made distictly like a capital U, that is in No. 2, but in none of the instances of the word Queens written with a small letter is that small letter at all like a q, no one would read it for a q; in No. 3 there is a little correction, in the first instance it is like a j, and it is now more like a y, and so is the y and j like they and j in the will—I have formed a very confident opinion on the subject with which I am now dealing—I have a great number of other instances of peculiarities—in my judgment I detect the writer of the will to be the same as the writer of the copy of the will and the cheques proved to be in Cooper's writing.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. Messrs. Spiers & sons first instructed me in this matter—I rather think they told me what the object was—I think they put the question rather fairly to me—they asked me if this will was in the same handwriting as a document which has not been mentioned now, a letter marked A, which was marked E as an Exhibit in Chancery, dated 36, Queen's Road, Bayswater, June 11—the year was not marked; it was some writing of Miss Adolphus's long before 1872—I was shown the will subsequently—they brought me in the first instance all these photographs, and I think only that one document, and they asked me whether the will was in the same handwriting as the photographs, which were admitted to be in the same handwriting as the document E—I was at the same time shown some documents of Cooper's admitted handwriting, the bodies of the cheques from R to Z—I knew of course by the will being; brought to me that it was a matter in dispute—I think that Mrs. Cooper has written the whole of the will herself—I should think she would try to copy the writing of the person as nearly as possible, if she had it to copy from, but I think that would be very difficult to get—supposing she had no specimens of this large handwriting of Miss Adolphus before her I should

not think it would require great ingenuity to forge a will in this way; I don't see the ingenuity in the forging of it—I don't see the difficulty in putting the "nt" in the word "testament" after they in this way; that was just an attempt to imitate the sprawling way in which Miss Adolphus wrote her cheques—I think that easy enough—the person might have written the "nt" below they if that idea had seized the mind of the writer, or put it anywhere else—there is nothing difficult in it—the curve in "emma Adolphus" does not show any ingenuity to my mind—I say it was done wilfully; I say all these curves are very easily done, requiring very little ingenuity—there in "road" at the bottom of page 1 is not at all similar to there in "road" in exhibit G; it is altogether different—the two words are as different as they well could be—there is as unlike as could be; it is not even an imitation of it—it would not be difficult to smear over the words "place" and "road" in this way; it might be done by accident—smears are similar to each other by whoever made; they might be done by the hand of the forger or by anybody.

Q. Assuming for a moment that the hand that wrote the will was guided, would you expect to find any idiosyncrasies of the stronger hand in the writing of the guided hand? A. I have not much experience in guided hands, but I should think it would be so, but there would be plain evidence that the hand was guided—I should expect to find some of the characteristics of the guiding hand in the will; it would depend upon the amount of power of the guiding hand and the amount of weakness of the guided hand—the extent would depend upon the comparative power and capacity of the two hands—if the guided hand were weak and the guiding band were that of a strong person I think it is very possible, that the idiosyncracies of the guiding hand would be strongly marked—that is almost obvious—the guiding hand could do as it liked, especially if the hand was strong—if any peculiarity of the weak hand did appear it would be rather more likely to appear in the signature than in other words, but you see in the will it does not appear, because the A in "Adolphus" in the will is a small a, on the third line in the first page—the a's are formed like a small a, not like an enlarged one—I say the a in that third line is a small a; it is not more a capital A than the a in "and"—I say it is not intended for a capital letter, nor is the a in "Adolphus" in the fifteenth line of the second page, or in the word "Amelia" they are all small—looking at the word "Bayswater" in the third line of the copy of the will made at Messrs. Mercer's office, and at the same word in page 1 of the will, line 5, I have not the slightest doubt that whoever wrote the one wrote the other—the one seems to me to be the parent of the other, they are so alike—I do not think that the E in "emma" in exhibit M is like the E in "Estate" at page 1 of the will—there is a great difference—it was a characteristic of Emma Adolphus's E to make the upper loop very large and "' distinct and bold—if you look at all her E's you will find that is her chief characteristic—in the word "Estate" it is very cramped, as if the writer was almost afraid to make the bow at all—both are made on the same plan—of course very many persons make a capital E on the same plan; that is the only similarity between them—the A in the copy will made at Messrs. Mercer's office is similar to the A always made by Miss Adolphus, and all the A's in the copy will are properly formed capital A's—I dare say she would have formed the A in the same way in the will if she had written it small, but she has written it very large; that affords a possible motive for

using that form of letter—she might have associated largeness of writing with childlike writing, and she may have formed the a small for that reason—I cannot tell; the Jury can form their view upon that as well as I can—the E in "emma" in the copy will is spelt twice with a small e; in the sixth line from the bottom it is a capital E; that is the way in which I make a capital E myself—I notice that there is a blundering in the spelling of the word "emma."

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I may have formed an opinion as to whether the will was or not all written at one time, but I forget; if you will let me look at it, I will tell you now; my mind has not been directed to that at present, because I only had an opportunity of looking at the will once (looking at it)—there is no indication of its having been written at different times; it may have been, but it appears to me to have been written all at one time; that is my opinion upon it—I should think the names of the attesting witnesses were not written at the same time, the ink is not so dark; they may have been blotted, but I don't think they have—I could not tell whether they were written at or about the same time; I can't say they were not—I see no reason to doubt that the signatures were written at the same time, as far as I can see—I don't dispute it—I don't know how many times Juries have disagreed with my opinions, they have occasionally—sometimes one Jury has agreed, and another Jury has disturbed the verdict of the first.

By MR. GRAIN. I have just seen the two cheques produced, they arc forgeries undoubtedly—in the second cheque there are four strokes to the am in "emma," like one of the m's in the copy of the will—it may be a double n or it may be an in with four strokes—I believe the name is spelt correctly in the will and not in that cheque—two documents were submitted to me, upon which I would not express an opinion.

Re-examined. Q. What are those two documents? A. In my examination at the Probate Court, I did not speak with the same strength with regard to the signatures of R and S—I have expressed my opinion that they are the signatures of Miss Adolphus, but I am not absolutely sure of it; those are the only things I have a doubt about—I don't say they are not in her handwriting, that is all—my opinion about them is much the same now as it was then—there are certain peculiarities applicable to writing that has been guided—I do not find any such peculiarities or any trace of guiding in the whole of the will—I think it would be impossible for a guided hand to make the junctions with such accuracy, to begin with—there would be great decrepitude in the writing if it was guided, something of a tremulous nature—I could very readily believe that some of the cheques written by Miss Adolphus were written by a guided hand, the character of the writing would have more of that character—not a particle of the will exhibits the character of being guided, it is in a clear firm hand throughout—the difference between there in the word "road" in the will and in document G, is this, in the will the lower limb of there is separated from the first down stroke, but in document G it merges; it is difficult to describe it, but it has a different character—in the o in "road" in the will the up-stroke is taken from the very middle of the o, connecting it with the a, but in document G, it is continued from above the o, and unusually high up—then the D is of different form altogether—Miss Adolphus frequently made the d turned up, but it is not so in the word "road," neither does it occur in any d in the will—there is no d at all like the d in document G—

Miss Adolphus invariably made the d as in the word "pounds," and never in any other way; it is the same in the word "and;" and in all the cheques in Mrs. Cooper's handwriting the d is made in the same way as in the will—all the four letters in the word "road" are formed on a totally different principle from those of Miss Adolphus.

A JUROR. Q. In exhibit M, the word Emma is written Enma, is it not? A. I think I can see the foot of the third stroke of the m; there is plenty of room for it, but it is difficult to see through the blot which is made by the photograph of the pin's head—I fancy I can just see the foot of it, and that is all.

FREDERICK GEORGE NETHERCLIFT . I have been in the habit of attending to handwriting for the last thirty years—I have examined the admitted genuine or proved handwriting of Miss Adolphus—I have also formed a judgment on the subject of the will—it is certainly not written by the same person as wrote the documents I have assumed to be in the handwriting of Miss Adolphus—I have formed a confident judgment that it was written by Mary Cooper—I can point out in detail the reasons which have brought me to that conclusion—I have heard Mr. Chabot examined; nearly all of them are the same as have guided his mind—I formed my judgment quite independent of Mr. Chabot; I had the case in February, before Mr. Chabot, and sent in my report.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I have not paid any attention to your questions to Mr. Chabot, or his answers—no doubt my answers would have been just the same.

ABIATHAR BROWN WALL . I am a member of the College of surgeons, and a physician.

Cross-examined by MR. GRAIN. I was called in to attend Miss Adolphus, in April, 1872, and I went there upon various occasions, and found that she was being paid great attention to by Mrs. Cooper—I continued to attend on her from April to July.

Cross-examined by MR. C. MATHEWS. I saw Mrs. Jenkins, in constant attendance upon her—I don't know whether she slept in the room with her—her attendance was very continuous and very kind—she seemed at all times exceedingly kind to her.

Re-examined. I continued to attend her down to the time of her death—she was gradually failing, becoming weaker from day to day—at the time of her death I was told that she was 80 years of age; I did not put that down from my own judgment; she did not look 80, the persons about her, Mrs. Cooper and Mrs. Jenkins, told me she was 80—I was not aware that her sight was affected; I was never consulted about her sight, and the whole time I attended her I never thought for a moment that she was blind—I never saw her out of bed—the last time that I saw her before her death was on 2nd July—she was then much the same as she had been, very weak and low—I think she was in a condition to sit up in an arm chair, and write for a couple of hours; she was not so low and weak as all that—I did not anticipate her death so quickly—I did anticipate it sooner or later, at no distant date—I went there on the 4th, as far as I recollect, about the middle of the day, between 11 and 12 o'clock—I can't exactly say what time I was there on the 2nd, but I should think to the best of my. belief it was in my morning round, that would be between 11 and 12 o'clock.

By THE JURY. I did not advise her to make her will, but I had urged her to tell me, and I had urged her constantly during my attendance to tell me who

her relations were, that I might write to them and tell them the serious state she was in, but she would never answer me the question, she maintained a dogged silence every time I asked her and never would tell me where her relatives were—I never said a word about the will—I told her she was in danger and asked who her relations were, but she never mentioned them and I could never get from her who they were, though I continually asked her.

By MR. STRAIGHT. On 4th July this will was shown to me by Mrs. Cooper and Mrs. Jenkins.

This being the case for the Prosecution, MR. STRAIGHT requested that MR. GIFFARD should now sum up his case and not be entitled to a reply, which it was understood he would claim as representing the ATTORNEY-GENERAL. The Judges had differed in opinion upon this point, MR. JUSTICE BYLES and MR. BARON MARTIN having questioned the right so claimed, and the LORD CHIEF BARON having held that any member of the bar representing the ATTORNEY-GENERAL was entitled to it, MR. JUSTICE FIELD ruled that he should act upon, the authority of the LORD CHIEF BARON, and in accordance with the rule laid down in 7 Carrington and Payne.

Cooper and Hannah each received a good character.

CHARLES FREDERICK LEMMON . I am a clerk to Mercer & Mercer and was so in 1873—this copy of the will was dictated to Cooper in the Probate Court about a week before the trial, I think the date is on it.

COOPER and JENKINS GUILTYRecommended to mercy by the Jury on account of the great kindness shown by them to the deceased during her long illness — Seven Years' Penal Servitude each.


NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 23rd, 1875.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

Reference Number: t18750920-504

504. JOSEPH WELCH (19) , Feloniously killing a mare, the property of Albert Meray. Second Count—for maiming. Third Count—for wounding the mare.

MESSRS. BESLEY and SIMS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ROBERT WILLIAMS the Defence.

The particulars of this case are unfit for publication.

MR. WILLIAMS contended there was no evidence of any intent to kill or of any malice on the prisoner's part towards the owner of the mare. (See "Reg. v. Pemberton," Archbold, page 583.) The Court left it to the Jury to say whether the act was done unlawfully and maliciously, that is, whether the prisoner intended to kill, maim, or wound the mare, and whether he knew that his act was likely to do so, and further directed the Jury that although they might consider that the prisoner had no such intention, but committed the act knowing that it might kill or wound the mare and not caring whether it did or not, that would come within the meaning of the statute.

GUILTY of unlawfully and recklessly wounding, but not of intending to kill, maim, or wound. The prisoner received a good character. Case reserved for the consideration of the Court for Crown Cases Reserved.

Judgment Respited.

Reference Number: t18750920-505

505. ANNIS ALANTER (38) , Rape on Madeline Seagrave.

MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution.

GUILTY. of the attempt — Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, September 23rd, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-506

506. GEORGE LEEMAN (43), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing 25 oz. of tobacco, 40 postage stamps, and other goods of Charles Fritchley— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-507

507. And BENNETT JOHN EADY (18) , to four indictments for forging requests for the delivery of goods and for obtaining goods by false pretences— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] ABRAHAM BONHAMI (31), was indicted for receiving the same goods, upon which no evidence was offered.


Reference Number: t18750920-508

508. GEORGE WHITEHORN (30), Feloniously forging and uttering an undertaking for the payment of 4l. 10s., with intent to defraud.

MR. FRANK SAFFORD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.

JOSHUA JESSOP . I keep the Lord Nelson at Limehouse—the prisoner came to me on the 13th August last—he brought this advance note (produced) and asked would I be kind enough to cash it for him, I said I did not care to cash notes except for people living with me, but I at last did so—I advanced him that day 2l. 1s. and he was to call in the morning for the rest—he spoke to me about being a shipper by the Donna Isabel, and I told him I had shipped on board Donna Isabel—he called next day and I gave him the balance, 2l., after a, discount of 6s.—when he came on the 13th he was not drunk, but had been drinking, he had a friend with him—I should think he knew what he was about—he was sober on the 14th.

Cross-examined. He may have been in my house half an hour—the first time they had a pot of ale.

Re-examined. I saw him sign the note at my request in my parlour.

ALFRED NORTON (Policeman K 124). I took the prisoner into custody on the evening of the 27th—I took him to the police-station, where he was charged with obtaining and forging an advance note—he said that he did not do it himself, but other people did it for him, and it was done through drinking—he said that the captain of the Donna Isabel told him that his leg was so bad that he was not fit to go to sea—he did not state where he had seen the captain.

BENJAMIN BACKHOUSE . I am a clerk to a shipping company, who have their offices at 411, East India Avenue, and also one at the East India Docks—the Donna Isabel belongs to the company—Captain Le Courtier is the captain—I am well acquainted with his signature—this note is not his handwriting, or the least like it—this is not one of our notes, nor does it bear the stamp of the company, which it would do if it came from the company—seamen do not see Captain Le Coutier at the shipping office, but at the East India Avenue, and they have an advance note given them there—when they want an advance note they would come to me, the captain—would tell me the number, and he would sign one in my presence—I have never issued an advance note to the prisoner; I have never seen him.

Cross-examined. The Donna Isabel is now out in the Brazils, and Captain Le Coutier is with her.

GUILTY of uttering — Three Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-509

509. DANIEL DONOVAN (20) and ELIZABETH DONOVAN (23) , Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Charlotte Wombwell, and stealing a watch and chain, brooch, rings, and money to the amount of 70l. Second Count—For receiving the same.

MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution.

HERBERT WOMBWELL . I am a son of the prosecutrix, Mrs. Wombwell and live with her in Laura Place, Lavinia Grove, Caledonian Road—on the 17th April, I received three 10l. notes from the cashier at the Montague Street Bank—on Sunday evening, 18th April, I went out about 6.15 before my mother, and when I returned at 9 o'clock, my attention was called to a broken window in the back parlour—I gave the notes to my mother on Saturday, retaining one—I know the three notes were numbered consecutively—the pane of glass was broken, and a piece of brown paper pasted over it, but when I returned home it was pushed in.

WILLIAM WOMBWELL . I am a son of the prosecutrix—on the 18th April, my mother and brother went out before me—I went out about 6.45—I closed the front door when I left—it was not a door that could be open from the outside—the other door was also closed—I returned at 9 o'clock by myself—when nearing the house, I saw a light through the window, up in the bedroom—I then knocked at the front door, but no one came, then I looked up again at the window, and the light was gone—I went in at the back door, by getting over the fence just by the house—I saw a man besides the light in the room, or rather the hat of a man—I was prevented from seeing his face—the blind of the window was up—when I got in the house, I went downstairs and lit the gas, and my brother then came in—my mother came in afterwards—I told my brother what I had seen, and when my mother arrived, we went upstairs, and found the back parlour window open—a part of a pane and another part of the window was broken; there had been a piece of paper over it, which was broken by some one's hand being pushed through—we found articles scattered about the floor, and missed some property—the parlour window is on the ground floor, we came up from the kitchen which is below.

CHARLOTTE WOMBWELL . On the evening of the 18th April, I went out and my son remained in—I came back shortly after 9 o'clock, and went with ray two sons upstairs into my bedroom—I found a little box belonging to my daughter had been opened, and the things that it contained were strewed upon the floor—my watch and chain were gone, which I left upon the drawers or the washstand, a brooch, two rings, and several other things that were in a pincushion box were also gone—I could not tell exactly what the box contained, but it seemed to have been emptied—I could not say exactly the number of sovereigns I left, but there were two. 10l. notes as well in a small linen bag inside my drawer, and all were gone—I had received the two 10l. notes from my son Herbert on the evening before—my house is in the parish of St. Mary, Islington.

GEORGE FREDERICK WHITE . I am cashier at the Bloomsbury savings Bank, Montague Street—according to this receipt, I made a payment in notes to Herbert Wombwell, on the 17th April—there were three 10l. notes! numbered 98,104-5-6.

THOMAS POCOCK . I am a draper, at No. 52, Hampstead Road—in April last, somewhere about the 21st, I received a 10l. note from the female prisoner—I saw the male prisoner outside my shop at the time—the female I was making a purchase—I gave her 7l. change, and the rest to my cashier—I sent the note to the Oxford Street branch of the London and County Bank—I sent one other 10l. note.

Cross-examined by Elizabeth Donovan. There was not another young lady with you to my knowledge at the time you changed the note.

GEORGE FREDERICK PUGH . I am a clerk at the Oxford Street Branch

of the London and County Bank—on 23rd April last, I received a sum of money to pay to the credit of Mr. Pocock—there was a 10l. note numbered. 98,106, dated 20th January last.

THOMAS DEEKS . I am an auctioneer's porter, at 237, Euston Road, St. Pancras—I remember seeing both prisoners on the 29th April in the auction room—on that occasion, the male prisoner gave me a 10l. note to take 1l. as a deposit on goods that he purchased—I gave him 9l. change—I handed the note to the clerk who gave it to Mr. Ash, and Mr. Ash gave the change out of his pocket.

Cross-examined by Elizabeth Donovan. You were in company with the one by your side and another on the occasion of the sale—there was a man who bought something as well as you—it was you that changed the note and not him—I said at the police-court it was a Mr. Thomas that was with you.

EDWARD ASH . I am an auctioner, at 237, Euston Road—on the evening of the 29th April; I remember a 10l. note being handed to my clerk, and then to me—I gave change for it—on the following morning I paid it into the City Bank, Tottenham Court Road Branch—I received no other note of any sort on the occasion referred to.

Cross-examined by Elizabeth Donovan. I think I said at the Court that you laid out from 5l. to 6l., I can see by referring to the sale ledger—I should know the things were you to mention them—there was not a green toilet room suit—I did not say there was, the remark I made was that it had been bought by a person named Arnold, and cleared the next day by a van, which I understood had been hired between you.

FREDERICK WALTER BURTON . I am cashier at the City Bank, Tottenham Court Road—on the 30th April last, a payment of money was made by Mr. Ash, and amongst it was a 10l. numbered 98,105, and dated 20th January, this year.

CHARLES JOHN WILLIAMS . I am a clerk in the accountant's office at the Bank of England, and represent Mr. William Danvers Brooks, who cannot get here—I produce a 10l. note numbered 98,105, dated 20th January, of this year—it was paid into the Bank of England, by the City Bank, on the 1st May, 1875; I also produced a Bank of England note 98,106, of the same date, which was paid into the Bank of England by the London and County Bank, on the 24th April, 1875.

WILLIAM WITHAM (Detective Officer). On 19th April last, I made an examination of the prosecutrix's house, and found the window had been broken—I subsequently went to the house in which the prisoners reside—on 19th August, I found the prisoners in custody at the Battersea police-station; I afterwards went in company with McQueen and Savill, to 27, Speake Road, Clapham Junction—Savill took his coat off, put his hand up the chimney in the parlour, and found a pair of ladies' drawers—there was a bundle containing two jemmies, sixteen skeleton keys, and six picklocks—I found some articles of furniture, and from information I received from Mr. Ash, I took this clock (produced), which was on the mantelpiece and chalked on the back number 109, which corresponds with the number in Mr. Ash's catalogue, and sold to the same party who bought the other goods—I also found a sewing machine with the maker's name, Weed; upon it—it was one of the articles purchased—at this time the prisoners were in custody—I also found a sofa and two chairs, which I took possession of, and believe to be the produce of the 10l. note.

Cross-examined by Elizabeth Donovan. I took the furniture away because of information received from Mr. Ash; it was not the whole of it because I ascertained the rest had been broken up by Donovan; it was not part of a green suit, but brown; you were charged with one offence previously to this one, from the latter you were detained for being in possession of the articles.

JAMES MCQUEEN (Detective Officer). I heard the male prisoner give the addresss of 27, Speake Road, Clapham Junction, at the Battersea police-station.

Cross-examined by Elizabeth Donovan. When I arrested you in the first place I told you there was a charge against you for stealing a decanter from a public-house, that the publican whom I had seen said he would follow up the charge—he was not at the police-station; I took you there on suspicion of having committed a burglary in April last, at Caledonian Road.

Elizabeth Donovan's Defence. I certainly did change the first note at the linendraper's, but it was for another young woman, who had previously been to me and asked would I get it changed for her at the bank. I told her I could not go to the bank, I had to get home soon, but as I was a customer at the linendraper's he would probably change it for me, although not so likely a 10l. note as a 5l. note. He gave me the change, but as for my husband being outside the shop; I deny it. The following week I went to a sale, and my husband fetched the things away the next day; I do not know whether the note was changed there after I was gone, by the party I was in company, but it certainly was not in my presence.


DANIEL DONOVAN**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. ELIZABETH DONOVAN*— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-510

510. JOHN STOTT (19) , stealing an order for payment of 13l. 15s. of Sutherland Dawson & Co., Limited. Second Count—receiving the same.

MR. WARNER SLEIGH and MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS ATKINSON ELLIS . I reside at 72, King's Cross Road, and am agent for the Phoenix Fire Brick Company, Limited, Calstock—on 16th August, I enclosed this cheque in this envelope, addressed in my own handwriting to Messrs. Sutherland & Co., Limited, of the Iron newspaper.

ALFRED ANDREW TERRY . I am letter carrier—on 16th August, I delivered letters at Messrs. Sutherland Dawson & Co., Limited, 12, Fetter Lane—I believe this (produced) was amongst them, at all events in the ordinary course of business it would have been delivered by me.

WILLIAM JOHN ROUSBY . I am secretary to the proprietors of the Iron newspaper—the defendant is unknown to me—this is not my writing, nor written by my authority—Catlin, was our office boy, he was called as a witness at the police-court—he left our employment immediately on discovery of the theft, and went back to the Field Lane Industrial school—I have made endeavours to have him here to-day, but have been unable to find him—a boy by the name of Stesinger, was in our employment before Catlin—he also came from the Field Lane Industrial school.

FRANK OWEN . I am the Governor of the Field Lane Industrial schools—I remember about August 21st, the defendant making a statement to me—he said he had received a cheque for 6l. 10s., or 6l. 15s. for a lawyer in connection with an uncle of his who died and left him 1,000l. a year—he further stated that he had bought a watch and chain, which he was wearing, and also the clothes that he had on with the money—I asked him why he did not pay Mr. Flock, connected with the institution, the 30s. he owed to

him. and he replied that a man next door by the name of Holditch, owed him 30s. she would pay Mr. Flock out of that—I went to Mr. Holditch, a tobacconist. who stated he did not owe defendant the money, but he had a cheque for 13l. 15s., out of which he was to buy the prisoner a watch—the prisoner was present at that time.

WILLIAM HOLDITCH . I am a tobacconist, of 86, Caledonian Road—on the 17th August the prisoner came to me and said he had had a little bit of luck, his old man had died and left him a lot of money and he produced a cheque—I should say this is the same (produced) he said the lawyer had sent it to him—he left the cheque in my charge—I noticed Mr. Rusby's signature on the back—I should not like to swear it was on a Wednesday, the 18th August, that he came to me, but I think it was.

JAMES POND (City Policeman 164). I saw the prisoner after the second examination—he wanted to make a statement and I gave him the pen and paper to write it down—that paper would be in the hands of the attorney for the prosecution.

Prisoner's Defence. I wish to say that two witnesses were brought against me, Catlin and Stesinger. Catlin made a statement on oath which if your Lordship will look at you will find to be incorrect. I received the cheque, for which I am very sorry, but I neither forged it nor stole it; it was given to me, and in receiving it I did wrong. I have no witnesses Those that are here can prove that the signature was on the back of the cheque.

GUILTY. on the second Count — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-511

511. HENRY STONEY (38) , Stealing 500 yards of canvas, the goods of John Ower. Second Count—Receiving the same.

MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GOODMAN the Defence.

JOHN OWER . I am a canvas merchant at 21, swan Street, Minories—I have dealings with Messrs. Hoare, Murray & Co.—on the 23rd August they ordered from me five rolls of canvas; they were sent by a man who had been hired; it is not the usual way—I have a van and cart, but the canvas was wanted very quickly—I did not see it again until I was called to identify it—one of the pieces is here (produced) and I identify it as my property—I have also seen three and a half pieces, part of the five rolls, which is my property—the trade price of the five rolls is 11l. 4s.

Cross-examined. I have a trade number and can identify my canvas.

JAMES SHAND . I am a warehouseman to Messrs. Hoare at 29, Budge Row—I went for the firm to Mr. John Ower's and picked out five pieces of canvas to be sent—I should know the pieces again—that (produced) is one of them.

Cross-examined. Mr. Ower has a very large quantity of canvas—I have seen lots of his canvas—I could not say 58 is his trade mark, but all his goods are marked the same—as far as I know that (produced) is one of the pieces I bought—I could not say accurately it is the one; it is the same kind of thing that I bought—the pieces were taken out of other pieces—there were several other pieces like that in stock, not the same quality, but the same mark.

Re-examined. This is the same quality—I noticed the marks when ordering the canvas, the marks on that piece are the same—the five pieces bore the same marks.

GEORGE UPSON (Detective Officer M). I received information, and on 24th I went to Mr. Dickenson's warehouse, 5, Tooley Street, Bermondsey—he is a hop merchant—I saw the five rolls of canvas, one had been cut in halves—I took away three and a half pieces—this piece (produced) is one of the five rolls—I saw Mr. Dickenson's warehouseman and after examining the canvas I remained in charge of it and sent another detective to the City to give information to the owner; then Mr. Ower's brother came over and identified the property—the next day I saw Mr. Dickenson, junior, in company with Detectives Childs and Stevens; from what he told us we went in search of Mr. Vinal, who purchased the canvas from prisoner, whom we found—Vinal went in search of the prisoner while we remained at a certain place in the Borough—I afterwards found the prisoner and Detective Childs at the corner of King Street and High Street, Borough—nest day I went to Vinal's and afterwards saw the prisoner—Vinal first spoke in the prisoner's hearing and said "This is the man of whom I bought the canvas, I gave him 4l. 3s. for it"—the prisoner said he did not give him so much—I asked the prisoner how be accounted for the possession of the five pieces of canvas, to which he replied a man went to him and asked him if he would buy it, he said "No," but possibly he could find some one to do so, and he saw Vinal, to whom he sold it, but never received 4l. 3s. for it—he further stated that he did not know the man who came to him with the canvas—before I took him into custody he said that Vinal and himself were at Mr. Dickenson's office when the canvas was delivered there—on the way to the station he repeated that he did not receive so much as 4l. 3s. for the canvas and that he gave the two men about 2l. for it.

Cross-examined. I did not know anything of the prisoner until I saw him—I know he has been in the employ of Messrs. Baker and Morgan, Kentish Buildings, High Street, Borough—he was so when taken into custody—he told me without any hesitation that he had 'been asked to sell the canvas and had sold it.

JAMES SAMUEL VINAL . I live at 12, Southborough Terrace, Carlton Road, Peckham—I am a dealer principally in hops—I know the prisoner by sight, and knew him before this transaction through meeting him in the Borough and various other places—on Friday, the 27th August, I saw him in the High Street, about 11 o'clock in the morning, in Queen's Head Yard—there was no one with him at the time—he nodded, and then asked me if I had seen some gentleman—I said I had not—he showed me a sample of hop packing—I do not myself know much about this material—he asked me if I thought the packing was worth 5l.—I told him I could not say, but might find out the price within a little—I then went to inquire—on my return I asked him what he would take for the lot, and he replied 4l. 10s.—I had not seen the bulk, and asked him if it was the regular hop packing in rolls of 50 yards each, and he said he did not know—I know now that there are—104 yards in that one (produced)—he did not tell me how many yards there were in it—he said within a little it weighed about 1 cwt.—I subsequently agreed to take it for 4l. 10s.—previous to my paying him the money I drew up a bill—before making the purchase I inquired of him as to the proprietor, and he said he was selling it on commission for another party—he never introduced me to the party for whom he stated he was selling it—I never saw him or them at any time to my knowledge—he said the canvas was properly come by—I paid him the same day opposite the Queen's Head Yard, in a public-house,

4l. 3s., deducting 7s. in consequence of their being half a roll short delivered at Mr. Dickenson's warehouse, where I had been to ascertain the delivery—outside Mr. Dickenson's door was a hand truck—the prisoner was there, and said "1 have just delivered those goods"—I could not see whether there was anybody with him or not; there were two or three parties around—this is the bill (produced) that I drew up before paying him.

Cross-examined. That bill is in my own handwriting; it is not signed by the prisoner—I paid 4l. 3s. the same day the canvas was delivered—I borrowed the money from Mr. Dickenson—I never sold the canvas to Mr. Dickenson at all—I had it sent to Mr. Dickenson's because I borrowed the money from him, and told him that I sold it to a farmer, Mr. Tuck, for 6l. 10s.—I should not have sold it, but this sum was a good price for canvas—it varies in price at different times of the year—I don't think Stoney is at all acquainted with the value of canvas—I know he had been dealing with other bags at different times, made up of a cheaper material—as far as I know he imagined it to be a proper price—I should not suppose he knew the price from the way in which he spoke to me about it—he told me it was not his property; he was selling it for other people.

ROBERT CHILDS (City Detective). On the 3rd September I saw the prisoner and Vinal talking together in Nelson Street—I said to the prisoner "Your name is Stoney, I believe?"—he replied "Yes"—I told him of the pieces of canvas being stolen, and found in Mr. Dickenson's warehouse, and that Vinal said that he got them from him—I inquired where he got them from, and he replied from a party he saw in the Street, that he asked the party whether it was all right, who said "Yes"—the goods were outside a public-house, near the Queen's Arms—I asked him what he gave for them he said he did not recollect, neither did he know the parties he obtained them from; he took a sample of the stuff to Vinal; Vinal said he would buy it, and directed him to send it to Mr. Dickenson's warehouse; he came back to the parties and told them to take the goods to Dickenson's ware-house, which they did; he went there and saw them—he stated that he did not give Mr. Vinal a receipt—I told him I should have to take him into custody on the charge of receiving the goods, knowing them to have been. stolen—he said he did not know they had been stolen.

Cross-examined. I don't know that the prisoner never had the bulk of this canvas at all.

WILLIAM GEORGE HARDEN . I am foreman to Mr. Dickenson, of No. 33, High Street, Borough—on the 27th August I took in five pieces of canvas—this is one of the pieces.

Cross-examined. I could not swear that the prisoner brought the samples to me; other men took them in.

JAMES DICKENSON . I am a hop merchant, of 33, High Street, Borough—I know Vinal; I lent him some money—I did not want a security for him in respect there of—I don't know anything about this canvas; it was not sent to my office, but to the warehouse.

Cross-examined. I could not give the slightest information as to who brought the canvas to the warehouse—I do not know anything about it.


Reference Number: t18750920-512

512. JOHN DONOVAN (16) , Stealing one pocket handkerchief from the person of Charles Dove.

MR. GREENFIELD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES DOVE . I am potato salesman in Copenhagen Street, Islington—on the 19th August my wife and I were at Fresh Wharf, London Bridge I saw the prisoner there—I had this handkerchief (produced) in my side pocket and afterwards missed it—I did not feel it taken—my wife made a communication to me—I saw the handkerchief in the prisoner's pocket, and we went up to him and took it out—he was then on the pier—he said "I have the handkerchief, but don't lock me up"—I gave him into custody.

ANN DOVE . I was on London Bridge on the 19th August, when my husband lost his pocket hankerchief—a boy came and spoke to me, and said he knew where the pocket handkerchief was, and I then spoke to my husband—I afterwards went up to the prisoner and told him he had my husband's pocket handkerchief, he must return it or I should lock him up—he gave me the hankerchief, and said "Don't lock me up"—I took the handkerchief out of his pocket; my husband came up at this time.

THOMAS CREWE (City Policeman 97). I took the prisoner into custody—he said he gave the handkerchief to the lady.

Prisoner's Defence. I picked up the gentleman's handkerchief. He had an open summer coat on, and the wind could easily blow the handkerchief out of his pocket, which I believe to have been the case. When prosecutor's wife asked me for the handkerchief I was about to give it her when she thereupon took it out of my pocket. The boy that has been spoken of will prove that I picked up the handerchief, and the prosecutor would have brought him up as a witness but for this fact.


Reference Number: t18750920-513

513. GEORGE SHAW POLLOCK (47) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 6l. 2s. 3d. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. BESLEY and TICKELL conducted the Prosecution and MR. W. M. GOODMAN the Defence.

GEORGE RICHARD JOSEPH . I am a member of the firm of Joseph & Joseph—my father is also a member—I am in the habit of drawing the cheques, my father is not, but my brother is also—this cheque (produced) is not drawn by me nor by my authority—it is neither in my father's nor brother's handwriting—I don't know the handwriting at all—I have seen the prisoner, but I do not know him.

Cross-examined. My father has retired from business and has nothing to do with the cheques.

SIDNEY LAWRENCE JOSEPH . I a member of the firm of Joseph & Joseph—we keep a banking account with Messrs. George Barker & Co., Mark Lane—this cheque is not signed by me, and I don't know by whom—it is dated September 4th, 6l. 2s. 3d.

JOHN STEIB . I am in the employ of Messrs. Barker & Co., general merchants, 48, Bishopsgate Street—on Saturday, the 4th September, the prisoner came to our premises between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening and asked for a bottle of gin and some grocery amounting to 4s. 9d. or 4s. 11d.—when I was making up the parcel he handed me this cheque (produced)—he said he received it from a man named Drewett, who told him he could get it cashed at Barker & Co.'s, Bishopsgate Street, the same as if he presented it to the bank—I took it to my employer by reasons of previous instructions received from him—Mr. Barker came down and told me to ask prisoner if it was his signature that was on the hack of it, and he said "No"—I gave him the pea and ink and said "Sign your own name," and he signed George Shaw—I said "You had better put your address on it"—he wrote an

address—Mr. Barker fetched a police constable, and prisoner was given into custody—I heard the inspector ask him if it was his name he had previously written, and he replied "No, part of it"

Cross-examined. I saw on the back of this cheque George Drewett; this was on it when the prisoner came—he wrote George Shaw at my request—I did not ask him was that all his name, the inspector did so.

CLEMENT SHEPHARD (Police Constable). I was on duty on the evening in question—I was called into the premises, 48, Bishopsgate Street, and took the prisoner to Bishopsgate police-station—he asked the inspector to allow him to go outside as there were two or three gentlemen waiting—he was allowed to go with Mr. Barker—I walked on one side—Mr. Barker accompanied him, but no one else—he went to Fore Street and back—he turned about of his own accord, and was about half an hour out altogether, but failed to point out any one—I went to Cloudesley Road—there is a person from that place in attendance here, I believe—that is the address on the back of the cheque—I also went to Newington, where I found his wife and nine children—he first gave me his name at the station-house as George Shaw, and after being placed in the cell he gave me his proper name, George Shaw Pollock.

Cross-examined. I was present when he said George Shaw—possibly the inspector did not see this document in his hand at the time; I did not—he had it in his hand.

THOMAS ROPER (City Detective). I was at the Bishopsgate Station on the 4th September when the prisoner was brought in—he made the following statement voluntarily:—"On the Friday afternoon I was in Gracechurch Street when I met a man by the name of Tupe, whom I had known for some time; we' got into conversation. I told him I was not getting on very well and was hard up. He said 'If you meet me tomorrow afternoon I shall be able to lend you a few shillings. I went this afternoon to Lombard Court, met a man named Miles, and asked him if he had seen Tupe, he said 'No, but knew where to find him at 5'oclock as he had an appointment with him.' I asked where, and he replied at a public-house in Fore Street where there is a hoarding. I went there at 6.10, not expecting to see Tupe, but he was there, and we both went into a public-house. I called for a pint-of four ale, and asked Tupe whether he could fulfil his promise. Tupe said he unfortunately had not succeeded in getting the money he wanted, but if I liked to do a little turn for a friend of his he would pay me for it. I asked Tupe what it was, and he said he would fetch his friend, which he did. He brought Drewett back. Drewett told me to take a cheque to 'Dirty Dick's' (Barker's, in Bishopsgate Street), get some grocery for him, and bring him the cash. When outside the public-house, I asked why he did not go him-self. He replied that he did not want to go in the neighbourhood because a few 'bull-dogs' (meaning detectives) were about. We left Drewett at the corner of London Wall and Moorgate Street, and went on towards Bishopsgate Street, and I then asked Tupe if it was 'all right.' He replied that he had known Drewett for some time, and he believed it was all right. I asked him if I should sign my whole name or two Christian names. He said 'Your two Christian names will be all right; you can sign it; George Shaw will do, or anything.' When I came out to find the parties I could not; they were nowhere about. I will assist you all in my power." Shephard was present when he made this statement, and took his wife's address—the prisoner suffered no interruption when making this statement.

Cross-examined. I say that he offered to assist us in anything he could—I want Mr. Drewett for forgery, but cannot find him—there are three in the affair—I heard there has been a man by the name of White in Lombard Court, since the prisoner was arrested, who said that Tupe had done him out of a cheque on Saturday—whether it referred to Drewett I don't know.

JAMES HARKER . I live at Cloudesley Road, Islington, and am a coffee-house keeper—I knew the prisoner first in February, 1874, but he has only been staying with me since February, 1875, up to the time he was taken into custody on this charge—he stayed at my house one or two nights in 1874—I knew him as a gentleman passing through London by the name of Mr. Pollock—I have heard his Christian name, George—I have not known him by any other name—I have seen something of his wife and children—I have heard him say he was an agent for different firms, but I did not know his occupation during the time he was at my house—he represented to me that he had come into possession of some money through his father's will and invested it in a Cement Company.

GUILTY on the second Count—Recommended to mercy by the Jury — Six Months' Imprisonment.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, September 23rd, 1875.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-514

514. WILLIAM KENNEDY (34) , Feloniously wounding Robert Welham with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. DALTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLY the Defence.

ROBERT WELHAM (Policeman K 47). On 30th July went with two otter constables to the prisoner's cell at the stepney Police Station—130 K opened the cell door and I said to the prisoner "Come on out, my friend"—he shook his head and said "No"—at that time he was sitting on the left hand side with his hands in his pockets—he got up and put his hands behind him—I went into the cell and put my right hand on his left arm—he struck with his right hand in my left side with a knife—I closed with him and tried to get possession of the knife—in the struggle he kept striking right and left, and I received a stab in my right thigh and also my left leg—I still struggled with him till I saw the blade of the knife fall on the floor—I took a cab to the London Hospital, and there I remained thirty days.

WILLIAM HEALEY (Policeman K 130). I went with Welham, to the prisoner's cell—he was sitting on the seat with both his hands in his pockets—I asked him to come out—he made no answer—I asked him a second time, he hesitated for sometime, and said "I shall not come out"—Welham went inside, put his hand on my shoulder and said "You had better come out quietly young man"—he got on his feet and commenced stabbing about with this knife which he had open in his hand—Welham shouted out "He has a knife"—I tried to secure him from behind by his left arm, and I was in the act of securing the right when he stabbed me in the thigh backwards—he had just been apprehended and had been searched.

FREDERICK KING (Policeman K 207). I went to the prisoner's cell and saw him struggling with Welham—I saw him stab Welham, on the right thigh—they struggled together and he stabbed him under the left leg and ripped him in the tunic—Healey came to his assistance, and he stabbed him on the left thigh—I got hold of his hands from behind, turned myself

round and sat down on the seat, and he was on my lap—I told the two constables to go out of the cell—he turned round and made a stab at me—I swayed on one side and the knife went between my badge and belt, and the blade came out of the socket—the rivet had come out.

FRANK BOASE . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—I examined Welham and Healey—Welham had an incised wound on the front surface of the right thigh, about 1 1/2 inches long and an inch deep—it was dangerous from its being near the main artery of the limb—behind the left knee was another incised wound about half an inch long—Healey had a wound about two inches long in the front of the right thigh, and about an inch deep—it became dangerous because a large abscess came near it—they were such wounds as would be inflicted with this knife.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate: "I am very sorry for it; I did not know what I was doing; I was stark staring mad."

GEORGE YOUNG (Police Inspector K.). The prisoner was arrested between 11 and 12 o'clock in Commercial Road—he was found wandering there by another constable without any shoes on, and he appeared in a strange state—the constable asked him what he was doing there and as he did not satisfy him, he said "You had better come to the station"—he went quietly at first and then tripped the constable in the Street—they had a struggle, but ultimately he was got to the station—the doctor was sent for and he examined, him and certified that ho thought he was suffering from delirium tremens—I ordered him to be sent to the workhouse—he was put in the cell for a short time till we could get someone to take him there—he was searched at the time—it is supposed he had the knife in his sock.

JOHN ROWLAND GIBSON . The. prisoner was admitted to the gaol of Newgate on 3rd August and I saw him daily until the 7tn when I left town—I examined him and formed a very decided opinion that he was deranged in his mind—he had very distinct and powerful delusions that persons were about to throw him overboard and when he got ashore every one he met was about to murder him—he was likewise very terrified that any one should attack him while in the gaol for the first few days—all that feeling has passed away and very little remains now—I have watched his progress since and I am of opinion that he is nearly well—he says he should not like to go back to the ship, but beyond that he has no delusion I think—having heard the evidence I think it is such an act that a person in his state of mind would commit, he would suppose he was acting in self-defence.

NOT GUILTY on the ground of insanity. Ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

Reference Number: t18750920-515

515. ALFRED ANDREWS (24) and HENRY MATTHEWS (21) , Robbery with violence on Frances Froggatt and stealing one chain, the property of Edward Froggatt.

MR. GOODMAN conducted the Prosecution; MR. AUSTIN METCALFE appeared for Andrews; and MR. F. H. LEWIS for Matthews.

FRANCES FROGGATT . I reside at 1. Compton Terrace, Dalston, and am the wife of Edward Froggatt, a tobacconist—about 6 o'clock on the evening of Tuesday, 7th September, I was walking along Mare Street, Hackney; a man came behind me and pinched my arm very severely, and while I was turning my head to see who was hurting me another man rushed in front of me and seized my chain—I thought my watch was gone, but I

found it five hours afterwards in my pocket—I called out "Watch, police." and they ran through ship Alley and a young man ran after them for me—my arm was very black—Andrews is the man who pinched me and Matthews is very like the man who snatched my chain—I can't say positively that I saw his face, but his figure is exactly the same—I am positive of the other—they both ran as fast as they could, and when I could run no longer myself some young man who is a witness ran after them and a policeman brought Andrews back and I recognised him—I went to the station and charged him—my chain was only a plated one of very little value, and it was defective and that saved my watch.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I had not seen either of the men before—they were not at my side two minutes, it was momentary—I did not see Andrews before he pinched my arm—directly he pinched my arm he ran away and I saw his back—I was running after him—I only saw his face for a moment when I looked round.

MARY SHERWOOD . I live at Hackney—about 6 o'clock on Tuesday evening, 7th September, I was walking along Mare Street just behind Mrs. Froggatt, I saw her post a letter; she walked a little further and Andrews came in front of her and pinched her arm and Matthews came the other side and they snatched the chain and they both ran up ship Passage—they met the lady face to face before they did anything—Andrews went to the side of her and Matthews snatched her chain—I had never seen them before—I was 2 or 3 yards from them at the time—I looked at them—those are the men I saw—they ran away.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. I saw Andrews in the Court the next day at Worship Street—I mean to say that the two men came from an opposite direction and met the lady face to face.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. I saw Matthews outside the police-court on the Wednesday we had to go up—I said he was the man.

JAMES HAYNES . I am a carman, and live at 2, Grove Place, Hackney—I was in the yard of the ship public-house, and I saw Matthews come in the back yard—he went out, and about four or five minutes afterwards I heard somebody call out for their watch and "Stop thief"—I ran up and saw the two prisoner's run through the public-house—I have no doubt about them at all—a little later I saw Andrews brought back in custody—the next day when Andrews was at the police-court, I saw Matthews outside and recognised him—I spoke to the policeman, and he was taken into custody—directly I saw him I knew him and recognised him as the man I had seen in the yard, and who had run away—I had seen the prisoners together before, they both came through from the public-house, one came first and then the other, and then they went together down towards Mare Street.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. That was about five minutes before the cry—the second time they came by was directly they had done it—I followed as far as I could, but lost sight of them.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. The men were running quickly—I saw their faces when they started to come through the public-house—while I was following behind I only saw their backs.

EDWARD WATKINS . I am a shoemaker, at 58, Crosier Terrace, Hackney—on Tuesday evening, shortly after 6 o'clock, Mrs. Froggatt made a complaint to me—I saw two men running—I chased them and one was caught—that was Andrews—he said "Did you see me take the watch"—I said"—No, I did not"—I do not identify Matthews.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. They were about 50 yards from me, when Mrs. Froggatt spoke to me—I saw them go by the shop—I was at the shop door—no one was running after them, it was like running a race, between themselves—the constable in the Fields caught Andrews, and when I came up I said what I have stated.

DAVID SPILLAIN . I am a constable employed by the Metropolitan Board of Works, at the London Fields—shortly after 6 o'clock on Tuesday evening, 7th September, I saw two men running very fast in opposite directions—I heard cries of "stop thief" and ran after one of them, and caught him—that was Andrews—he said "What have I done," and when the last witness came up he said "I have not taken the watch;" I had not said anything about a watch; I had not heard about a watch.

JAMES MOORE (Policeman N 318). Andrews was handed over to me by Spillain, and I took him to the station—the next day Matthews was pointed out to me by Haynes and Mary Ann Sherwood-took him into custody—the witnesses said that Matthews took the watch, and Andrews held the lady—Andrews said that he did not take the lady's watch.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. I told Matthews that he was charge with being concerned in a watch robbery—he said he was quite innocent of it, he was at home on the evening—he said he lived at 101, Central Street, St. Luke's, and that is his correct address—he was detained in custody, and about an hour after I went to 101, Central Street, to ascertain whether it was true that he was at home—I saw the landlady and she made a statement to me, and she was afterwards called as a witness for Matthews.

Witnesses for Matthews.

SARAH SHAW . I am a diamond setter, and live at 101, Central Street—I am the wife of William Shaw—Matthews and his wife lodge with me—I recollect Tuesday, 7th september—Matthews came home on that day, a little past 3 o'clock—I heard him go upstairs, but I did not see him, and when St. Barnabas struck 4 o'clock, they were having tea upstairs—at 4 o'clock my insurance gentleman came, and Mrs. Matthews was going to insure her little boy—I called out and Matthews answered me—I saw him between 5. and 6 o'clock at the back room window playing with the little boy—I was. in the yard, and he said "Are you better Mrs. Shaw"—I don't remember seeing him after that, but no one passed out of the house to my knowledge—a girl named Rosina Snaggs wag there—she was sitting on the window sill, when he came home—I recollect the policeman coming in the morning, and he asked me some questions.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Matthews was at home—she went to the door and met him, seeing him coming up the Street—it was a little after 3 o'clock when he came home—I did not see him after the time he was playing with his little boy—I don't know Mare Street, Hackney, or how far it is from Central Street—I am sure about the time he was playing with his little boy; it was a little past 6 o'clock; it was more than 5.30—I know he did not go out till past 6 o'clock.

JAMES MOORE (re-called). 101, Central Street is about 2 1/2 miles from Mare Street.

MARY ANN IVES . I live at 100, Central Street, which is opposite the house where Matthews lodges—on Tuesday, 7th September, I saw him at the door at 3.45, talking to a young woman—T saw him go out of the house about 8.10 or 8.15—that was the first time I had seen him go out since I had seen him at 3.45.

Cross-examined. I was not looking at the house all the time—I don't know whether he had gone out before that.

ROSINA SNAGGS . I live at 101, Central Street, with my parents—I know Matthews and his wife—I recollect Tuesday, 7th September—Matthews came home about 3.30, and I took tea with him and his wife—I was in the room with him till about 8.15—he only left the room for five or ten minutes during that time.

Cross-examined. I am sure it was on Tuesday, the 7th—I was asked about it on the Wednesday, the next day—he has got a little boy—I was there all the time—I was speaking at the door with Matthews about 3.40


ANDREWS GUILTY . He also PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in May, 1868.

HERBERT REEVES stated that he was now on ticket of leave, and would have to go back and complete his sentence.

PHILIP RATCHFORD (a sweep) stated that he had been working for him for fourteen or fifteen weeks— One Month's Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-516

516. ROBERT GORDON COLEMAN (37) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 13l. 12s. 9d., with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. POLAND and STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.

CHARLES WOLF . I live at Leytonstone—I have known the prisoner upwards of fifteen years—on the 12th May I was with him and a gentleman named Miller—at that time I was acquainted with Mr. Newport, who keeps the Duke of Edinburgh public-house in Fairfoot Road, Bromley—on 12th May the prisoner handed me this cheque. (This was dated 11th May, 1875, and was drawn on Messrs. smith, Payne, and smiths, payable to C. Wolf, for 13l. 12s. 9d., signed Geo. Graham & Co., marked "No account," and endorsed "C. Wolf.") It was handed to me twice—the first occasion I took it to the lodge porter at the Asylum, and asked him if he could cash it—at that time I was employed at the Asylum at Bromley—as near as I can recollect it was just after I came from dinner, a few minutes past 1 o'clock, that I asked the porter to cash it—he could not cash it—I told Coleman I could not get it cashed there, and I said I would take it to another place for him, and I took it to Mr. Newport—Mr. Miller was present at the time the cheque was handed to me—the prisoner told me he had got it for work done—I have examined the cheque; the body of it is undoubtedly in the writing of the prisoner, but I can't swear to the signature—previous to the 12th May, the prisoner had called on me at my residence, and also at my place of business—he came down to see me in a friendly way and borrowed little sums of money from me—he asked me if I could get a crossed cheque cashed—I got 8l. from Mr. Newport on this cheque—this is ray endorsement—I was to receive the balance after it had passed through his bank—we met Miller at the corner of the Street, and Coleman told him we had got some business together, and he left us at the top of Campbell Road and went t towards Stratford—I handed Coleman the 8l., and we remained together the whole of the afternoon—he paid me 2l. 10s. out of the 8l.—he owed me rather more than that, about 2l. 15s.; I can't say to a shilling—at the expiration of two days I called again on Mr. Newport for the balance and was arrested—at that time I had this paper in my possession; it is in the prisoner's writing—I showed that paper to the Magistrate—I was taken

before Mr. Alderman Carter and committed to this Court—I—was tried and acquitted. (see Eighth session, page 136.)

Cross-examined. I handed Coleman the whole of the 8l. and he handed me back 2l. 10s.—nobody was present when that was done—I bad no idea that the cheque was a forgery—I had had it in my possession a very few minutes before I took it to the lodge porter—I looked at it—I did not know whose handwriting the body was—I owed the porter a trifle and I told him if he would cash it I would pay him a little money out of it because I had to receive some myself—I left it with him a short time while I went up to the counting-house again—the lodge is some distance from the counting-house—he did not say he did not like the look of it, he would have nothing to do with it—he said he could not manage it—Barrett is his name—I can't say whether he is here—I am not at the Asylum still, I lost my situation—I owed the prisoner an old debt, that was for a bill drawn on a man named Miller for 25l.—Miller accepted and I endorsed it—I handed the bill over to Coleman—I stated that I paid 25s. towards it, but I wish to correct that, I paid 5l. to the prisoner—I paid 25s. after Miller was sued for it—I had to pay so much a month—I did not say anything about the 5l. before the Magistrate—I said that he had waived the claim as regards me—he said he should not trouble me for the money, I was to pay it when I was in a position to do so—I did not ask him to draw a cheque on a bank which would be returned no effects, that I would pay it away to a friend who would hold it till I could get the money and pay it—that is all an untruth—I told Mr. Newport the cheque was for work done and was as good as gold—I asked the prisoner before and said "You must be very careful because Mr. Newport knows me as I am employed in the neighbourhood," and he said the cheque was as good as gold—I said that because it struck me it was curious he should come to me to get the cheque cashed—I did not tell Mr. Newport the cheque was paid to me for a debt due to me by a firm in the City—he asked me what the cheque was—I said it was for work done and was as good as gold—I remarked to Coleman that it was made out in my name, and he said that he had made it and it was done for the purpose of facilitating the cashing.

BENJAMIN WILLIAM NEWPORT . I keep the Duke of Edinburgh public-house in Fairfoot Road, Bromley—I have know Wolf for nearly three years as a clerk—on Wednesday, 12th May, he came to my house and produced this cheque and asked me to cash it—I had not sufficient money to spare just then and I offered him 5l. on account—he said he could do with 8l. and I gave him 8l.—he was to have the balance at the end of the week—I asked him where he got the cheque from and he said he had got it for work he had done and it had been owing to him for sometime—I afterwards paid it into my bankers and they kept it—the detective showed it to me and it was marked "No account"—Wolf came two days afterwards for the account and was taken into custody—I knew Wolf very well, in whose service he was and all about him—I asked him where he got the cheque and he said it was his own cheque and was as good as a bank note.

Cross-examined. I saw it was made payable to him—I asked him whose cheque it was and he said "It is mine, can't you see my name on it"—I said "Just so, where did you get it from"—he said "It is a funny question to ask me, I should not bring it to you unless it was good, it is as good as a bank note.

ARCHIBALD JAMES MILLER . I am a chemist at Battersea and formerly

at High Street, Homerton—on Wednesday, 12th May, I was with Wolf and the prisoner—I was at Mr. Newport's public-house first and Wolf and Coleman came in while I was there—I afterwards saw Coleman hand Wolf a piece of paper which looked like a cheque—Wolf looked at it casually and put it in his pocket and walked in the direction of Mr. Newport's—I waited talking to Coleman at the end of the Street—Wolf was absent about twenty minutes or half an hour and then he came back to us—I think he said to Coleman "It is all right" or something like that—Coleman said nothing—we went into a public-house—Coleman said "Come along Charlie, we have some business together," and I left them.

ALBERT HENRY NICHOLSON . I am a commission agent, at Mansion House Buildings, City—I have known Coleman about eight years—he assisted me in my office for about four months, during the latter part of last year—I had an account with smith, Payne, and Co., and this is my cheque-book—all the cheques are numbered "B 3,035"—this cheque is numbered the same as the blank forms—the body of it is in Coleman's writing—I can't say positively as to the signature "George Graham and Co.," but I believe it to be his writing—this paper marked "B," Is in his handwriting.

Cross-examined. Coleman has always borne a good character—I knew his family and connections—I was very much surprised to hear of this charge against him—the body of the cheque is in his-ordinary handwriting; there is no concealment.

Re-examined. I last saw him about four months ago—he was not in any employment or business at that time.

THOMAS ROUSBY . I am the prisoner's father-in-law—the whole of this cheque is in his handwriting, the body and signature, there is not the slightest disguise about it.

THOMAS OAKLET . I am deputy manager to Messrs. smith, Payne and Co.—in May last we had no customers named George Graham and Co.—this cheque was presented to us by the London and County Bank, and was marked "No account" by my instructions—the cheque-books are marked with a letter and number, and there is only one issue of that number.

MARY JANE SHARPE . I was in the prisoner's service, at 3, Ravensworth Terrace; Fulham, in May last—I remember the officer Fluister coming there—he saw Mr. Coleman, and they left together—I never saw Mr. Coleman again at 3, Ravensworth Terrace—I saw him sometime afterwards in the Street, and he told me had been to France, and had been back three days—I remained at the house about a fortnight after he left, and I dare say it was nearly two months after that that I met him in the Street—Mrs. Coleman and the children left Ravensworth Terrace at the end of the fortnight, and I left the service—I don't know where they went to.

WILLIAM JOHN FLUISTER (City Detective sergeant). On Thursday, 13th May, I took Wolf into custody at Mr. Newport's—he made a statement to me, and I went to 3, Ravensworth Terrace, Fulham, where I saw the prisoner—I asked him whether he was Mr. Coleman—he said "Yes"—I said "Do you know a person of the name of Wolf"—he said "Yes"—I said "When did you see him last?"—he said "The day before yesterday"—that would be on the Wednesday, this was Friday—I asked him whether he gave Wolf a cheque—he said he did not—I said "Are you aware that Wolf is in custody for uttering a forged cheque—he said "No, I am sorry for that; I must get some money to arrange the matter"—he then accompanied

me to Mr. Mullens' office in the City—he was asked whether he gave this cheque to Wolf, and he said "I did not"—he was told to attend at the Mansion House on that same day at 12 o'clock—it was about 11.50 then—I went to the Mansion House, and Wolf was brought up—Coleman did not appear at all—it was on that occasion that attention was called to the paper that I had taken from Wolf—a warrant was issued against Coleman on 22nd May, and I endeavoured to execute it—I was not able to find him until 11th August, when he was apprehended at Walham Green, and I went down and took charge of him—he said nothing respecting the charge.

----BARRETT. (Not examined in chief.)

Cross-examined. I am Lodge porter at the Asylum—Wolf brought me this cheque and asked me to lend him 5l. on it, and he would pay it back on the Saturday following, with the 3l. that he owed me—I kept the cheque in my possession about three-quarters of an hour—I did not hand it him back at once—I had some conversation with my wife, and I refused to have anything to do with it, and I told him so.

BENJAMIN WILLIAM NEWPORT (re-called). Mr. Rousby has paid me the 8l. which I advanced on the cheque—about the second examination at the Mansion House he asked me if I would like the money—I said "Yes"—he said he did not wish me to lose anything by it, and he paid me the 8l.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. He received a good character. Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-517

517. JOHN DESMOND (19) , stealing a watch and chain of John Anderson, from his person.

MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GRIFFITHS the Defence.

ELIJAH VINING (Policeman H 95). I know a man named Anderson, an Italian—on 14th September, I saw him in St. George's Street, about 10.30 in the evening—I saw" the prisoner there, and two other men; the two men had hold of Anderson, one on each side, and the prisoner was standing in front of him feeling his vest—he made a snatch at his watch and turned away—I was standing round the corner, and they were outside a public-house where it was light—I could see the chain in the prisoner's hand, but not the watch—he ran away, I followed, and caught him—I found nothing on him—the prosecutor has gone to sea.

Cross-examined. I was about 12 yards from them—this was in Ratcliffe Highway, which is rather a crowded thoroughfare—they all three ran away, and I followed and caught the prisoner—I never lost sight of him.

The Prisoner received a good character.


Reference Number: t18750920-518

518. GEORGE KING (25) and DENNIS SLARNE (21) , Feloniously assaulting Simon Rowe with intent to rob him.

MR. CROOME conducted the Prosecution.

SIMON ROWE . I am a mason and live at 36, Marshall Street, Westminster—oil 30th August, about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, I was in the Prince Alfred public-house, Tufton Street, Westminster—Mr. Wint came in while I was there—I saw King, Slarne, and Scamaton there (see next case) with others not in custody—some of them made use of beastly language to the landlady—I remonstrated with Scamaton and told him he ought to know better—King and Slarne both said they would knock my b----eye out if I had a word to say—I retreated from them and went

into the tap-room—they followed me in and made use of very foul language and placed themselves in fighting attitudes—I should think there were six or seven of them—the two prisoners rushed at me and I struck at them and they went down—others were on me and I struck at them and knocked them down—I knocked about four of them down—I then went out into the yard to a little back place attached to the tap and closed the door—they forced the door against me and three or four fell in—the two prisoners came deliberately and pounced on my pockets—King said "Sammy Rowe, I know you, you are in work and we are not, and if you have got anything we mean b----well having it"—I was hit at right and left with their fists and received blows—King planted his hand in the right pocket of ray coat and slarne followed on the outside pockets saying he would gouge my eye out—I am not aware that I had anything in those pockets at the time—those were the only pockets they searched—I found them inside out afterwards—I had my pocket knife in my left breast pocket and 6d. and 2d. in my trousers pocket—I found that after they had gone—I was black and blue and blood was running from my ears, eyes, and nose—they all got away—I pointed out scamaton to the policeman and he followed him—I afterwards saw King in custody—I am positive he was one of the men and slarne was another.

Cross-examined by King. You were in another compartment at first when the row commenced—I was sober—I don't know whether you were—you were not on the ground all the time—I knocked you down previous to the door being pushed open.

JOHN WINT . I am a carpenter and builder—on Monday, 30th August, I was in the Prince Alfred and heard Rowe speak to the prisoners and others with regard to their language to the landlady—he put his hand up and said "No, no, don't do that"—they put up their firsts and rushed out of one place into the other—Rowe went away from them and they followed him into the tap-room—King and slarne were two of the men who were there, scamaton was the one that first commenced it—I lost sight of them when they went into the tap-room—I saw Rowe when he came back, he was covered with blood and his eyes all closed up—I did not notice his coat pockets.

Cross-examined by King. I did not see you touch him.

Cross-examined by slarne. I saw you put your fist close to his face, but I did not see you hit the man—I did not hear any swearing—I did not see you go into the tap-room—there were seven of you.

FREDERICK CARTER . I am landlord of the Prince Alfred—I was called into the bar by my wife—the two prisoners and others were there and Mr. Rowe and Mr. Wint—I did not see the assault, I went out to fetch a constable—when I returned Rowe was standing outside the house at the corner, he was knocked about very much, I never saw a face knocked about worse—when I saw him in the bar his face was well and he was perfectly sober—391 B was the constable I fetched—I pointed scamaton out to him and we pursued him—as we brought him back I saw King in the crowd—I did not see him taken.

HENRY TILLMAN (Policeman B 391). Mr. Carter fetched me to the Prince Alfred on 30th August—I found Rowe outside—Mr. Carter pointed out scamaton to me and I followed him and took him into custody—as I was taking him back to the Prince Alfred I saw King in the crowd—he threw me to the ground while I had scamaton in custody—I got up again; I kept

hold of Scamaton; he was rescued and I took him again and handed him over to two other constables and then I took King into custody about 100 yards from the public-house—there was a large crowd there, I should say a couple of hundred—King had been drinking very heavily—he was drunk.

JOHN WILLIAMS (Policeman B 378). I apprehended Slarne on 1st September, at No. 2, Laundry Yard, Peter's Street, Westminster, where he lives with his parents—I told him I arrested him on a warrant for assault—he said he would come with me, but he knew nothing about the affair.

King's Defence. I was very drunk at the time it occurred—I never insulted Rowe—I had known him for two or three years, and I work for Mr. Wint—as for the robbery, I had no intention of doing such a thing.

Slarne in his defence stated that he went to the public-house with Scamaton, but knew nothing about the assault or the robbery.


Reference Number: t18750920-519

519. GEORGE KING was again indicted, with WILLIAM SCAMATON (21) , for unlawfully assaulting Henry Tillman, a constable, in the execution of his duty. Second Count—Occasioning actual bodily harm.

MR. CROOMB conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS Defended Scamaton.

FREDERICK CARTER . I fetched Tillman to the Prince Alfred, and on returning I saw Scamaton and pointed him out to Tillman—I did not go with Tillman, as I was pursued and threatened to be robbed, and I was thrown down myself—there were a great number of people there.

HENRY TILLMAN (Policeman B 391). I was fetched by Mr. Carter, who pointed out Scamaton to me—I followed him and took him into custody—I proceeded to take him back to the Prince Alfred; there was a great crowd—while I had Scamaton in custody King threw me on the ground by striking me in the lower part of the legs and cutting me clean from the ground—I held Scamaton while I fell—I got up and Scamaton knocked me down again—I got up and caught hold of him, and the crowd came in upon me—King was amongst them, and they took Scamaton from me and he escaped—King threw me a second time, and the crowd came in upon me and I was thrown all over the place—Scamaton got away for a time, but assistance came and we took them both into custody—I saw Rowe there bleeding from the nose and his eyes blacked.

Cross-examined. There were 200 or 250 people there—I tools Scamaton on a charge of assault—I had no warrant.

King's Defence. I was very drunk, and was shoved on to the man. Scamaton received a good character.

THE COURT directed a verdict of acquittal on the First Count, as the constable had not seen the assault, and therefore was not justified in taking Scamaton into custody. MR. WILLIAMS stated that he could not resist a verdict of common assault.

GUILTY. of a common assault.

REEVES stated that King and Slarne had been repeatedly convicted of assaults.

Five Years' Penal Servitude each.

SCAMATON— One Month's Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-520

520. WILLIAM FREDERICKS (21) Unlawfully obtaining by means of false pretences, from Joseph Welch and others, six silk mufflers and other articles, with intent to defraud.

MR. AUSTIN MERCALFE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM THOMAS EWES . I am warehouseman to Messrs. Welch, Margetson & Co. wholesale warehousemen, 16 and 17, Cheapside—on 13th

May the prisoner came to my department and asked for some silk mufflers—I had never seen him before to my knowledge—I showed him some, and he selected three at 14s. 6d. and three at 10s.—he said he came from Messrs. Gann, Roote & Co., whom I knew as customers of the firm—I sent the prisoner and the goods down to the entering room—the next day, the 14th, he came again and asked me the price of some mufflers he saw on the counter—I told him they were 5s. each—he selected three, and said he came from the same place—on Friday, the 17th, I was sent for and found the prisoner in one of the rooms of the warehouse—I asked him from whom he came, and he again said from Gann, Roote & Co.—I. asked him if he knew any one there, and he said he did several—I asked him to name one of them, and he said he should not—I sent for a constable and gave him into custody.

ALFRED BURTON . I am a warehouseman in the umbrella department—on 14th September, the prisoner came to me and asked to see two umbrellas—he said he came from Messrs. Gann, Roote & Co.—on Thursday, 16th, he came again and made the same statement and had two umbrellas and two silk cases—on each occasion I passed him over to the entering room and sent the goods down there—I saw him passing through the department on Friday, and I went and asked him from what firm he came and his name—he gave the name of Fredericks, and some Christian name—I asked him why he signed his name Lawrence, in our books—first he said he did not, and then he said he might have done so.

JOSEPH FRYER . I am manager of the entering department at Messrs. Welch, Margetson & Co.—on 13th September, the prisoner came down there and signed my book on the usual way in the name of C. Lawrence, from Messrs. Gann, of Fenchurch Street—I handed the goods over to him—he signed the book in the same way on the subsequent days—when he came on the 17th, I spoke to Mr. Ewes, and he was subsequently given into custody—I have known Messrs. Gann, Roote & Co., as customers many years—I was under the impression that I knew the prisoner's face, or I should not have allowed him to take the goods away—they have not been paid for.

JOSEPH PRATER . I am in the employment of Messrs. Gann, Roote & Co., 171, Fenchurch Street—the prisoner is not in their employment and never has been—there is no one there named Lawrence—the prisoner had no authority to go to Messrs. Welch, Margetson's for any goods.

The Prisoner in his defence stated that he was asked by a friend who represented himself to be in the employment of Messrs. Gann, Roote & Co., to go and fetch the things on his behalf, and that he told him to sign the name of Lawrence.

GUILTY .— Six Months' Imprisonment.

NEW COURT.—Friday, September 24th, and Saturday, September 25th, 1875.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

Reference Number: t18750920-521

521. WILLIAM TALLEY (48) , Unlawfully endeavouring to persuade Thomas Bedson Lancaster not to give evidence on a charge of felony.

MESSRS. COLLINS and STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS BEDSON LANCASTER . I am a Commercial traveller, and live at 23, Everton Street, Liverpool—I was in London on 27th July, in company with two soldiers, Nichols and Hawkinson—(See Tenth Session, page 370)—

I had a watch and chain and about 8l. in my possession—I became intoxicated, and found myself in the police-station next morning, when I missed my watch and chain and 3l. or 4l—I attended at the Mansion House on the 28th, and the two soldiers were charged with stealing them—I gave evidence, and they were remanded till the Friday, when I saw the prisoner acting as their advocate, and he handed me his card—after the proceedings were over, he invited me to go to a public-house close by, where you can get something to eat—a man named Holloway and a Mrs. Nichols and Amelia Allen went with us—before we got there, Talley said that it was an unfortunate affair, that the two soldiers were locked up for this offence, and he said "Will you withdraw from the case altogether"—I said "It has gone too far"—he said "No, it has not"—I said "It is more than I dare do to withdraw from it now"—I had been bound over then to appear here and give evidence—he said "I will instruct counsel on your behalf, and you will have nothing to do but just quietly withdraw from the case altogether"—at that time my watch and chain and 3l. 16s. 6d., which had been taken from the prisoner Hawkinson, were in the hands of the officer of the Mansion House, and Talley said "In reference to the money in Court, you do not know whether it is your money or not"—I said "I am pretty sure it is my money"—he said "I don't see well how you can be sure it is your money—I said "I am quite certain it is my money"—he asked me. what I would name to withdraw from the prosecution and renounce the money in Court—I said "It has gone too far; it is more than I dare do"—he said "No, no, it has not," but I persisted that it had gone too far for me to interfere in the matter—he mentioned 5l., which was not to be paid all at once, but some was to be paid that day and the remainder on the day of the trial—he said that I was not to be at the trial, but he would write to me at Liverpool and communicate the result—he had my address at that time—we got away from the Mansion House somewhere about 2 o'clock, and remained at the public-house till quite 7 o'clock drinking; Mrs. Nichols, Holloway, and Miss Allen remained there also—Holloway paid for some of the drink, Mrs. Nichols for some, and Talley for some—I had never seen either of them before—I was a little the worse for liquor by 7 o'clock, and have no recollection where I went when I left the public-house—I saw nothing more of Talley to my recollection till the Central Criminal Court Sessions—I have not the slightest recollection of signing any paper at the public-house on the Friday, but when I was a witness here the counsel for the prisoner handed me a paper, signed by me, and dated the 30th—on 10th August I received a letter dated the 14th, and on Monday, the 16th, I attended here on my recognisances—I got here rather before 10 o'clock, and saw Talley in front of the Court with Mrs. Nichols, Holloway, and Amelia Allen—Talley came up to me and said "You had hetter be careful what you say"—he also said "Will you see me after the Court is over, and we will go and have a little bit of dinner together; we will go to a nice quiet place, and you can have anything you like; we will all go together"—I am not sure whether I went before the Grand Jury that day or Tuesday; but on the Monday after the Court was over I saw Talley, who wanted me to have some dinner with him, as ha wanted to have some conversation in reference to the two soldiers, and the charge against them—I declined, and said that I had made an appointment to meet my wife—he said "Never mind, we won't be long; it is a nice quiet place, and you can have champagne or beer, or any thing you like"—I had

seen Talley that day upstairs here, and he continued his invitation to go and have dinner, and while I was in the little sitting room, waiting to go before the Grand Jury, he asked me again more than once to withdraw—no money consideration for my withdrawing was named that day—he wanted me to go downstairs but I would not; he did not tell me why—he produced some papers to me that evening, not very far from here—I do not know the name of the street, and asked me to sign them—he commenced reading one, it was in reference to withdrawing from the prosecution—I tried to get away, and walked in the direction of Fleet Street, and Talley followed me, and stopped me—I then made a rush to get across to Fleet Street—Holloway and Allen were with him, and when I got towards St. Bride's Avenue, they all three came up to me again—I am not quite clear whether Mrs. Nichols was there—while they were round me, detective Hutt came up—he had not been an officer in the case—something was said like "What are you doing with this witness?" and the word "vagabond" was used—I rushed across the street and got away—I had not employed counsel or attorney at that time, nor had I authorised any one to do so—I was here on the Tuesday to give evidence if necessary, and Talley tried to speak to me again, but the officers prevented him—the two men were tried on the Wednesday—I do not know who by—I appeared as a witness, and Mr. Grain, who was defending Nichols, put this document (produced) into my hands; it is headed "Drummond's Hotel, Euston Road, July 30, 1875"—I was not staying there then, but I had been on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, July 24, 25, and 26—I don't know where I was staying at the time I was robbed, as I had been drinking a good deal—the body of this document is in a woman's writing and it is signed "Thos. Lancaster"—I cannot say whether the signature is mine; I have not the slightest recollection of having signed it. (This authorised the delivery of (he watch and chain and 3l. 17s. to George Holloway.) I had never seen Holloway then, and he had done nothing to entitle him to 3l. 17s.—the body of the paper appears to have been written by the person signing Amelia Allen—it was not read on the trial of the two soldiers—with regard to this other letter (marked C 2, from Talley to Lancaster, dated 14th August) I never instructed Talley to instruct counsel on my behalf—I gave my evidence on Wednesday, 18th August, and the two prisoners were acquitted.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. It was on a Tuesday that I met the soldiers, and on Wednesday I appeared at the Mansion House—I do not recollect that Sir Robert Garden prohibited you from cross-examining—you introduced yourself; I did not make a special request to see you and follow you out of Court—I did not authorise you to represent my desire to retire from the prosecution; some reference was made to my being lenient towards the prisoners—I was under the impression that they did not intend to rob me—I was very desirous of retiring from the prosecution in this way, that I was sorry that I had been mixed up in it—I had 8l. odd in my pocket; I cannot say to a few shillings, and next morning I had only 2l. 10s. I had my purse—I made no charge against the prisoners at the station; I did not sign any paper—I was not asked to make a charge—I did not state to Mrs. Nichols and others that I was not the prosecutor—I gave you my address at Liverpool because you bored me so for it—I did nut introduce Miss Allen to you as my cousin; I did not with her on my arm follow you to the refreshment-house—I did not state that I was destitute and had no

money—I did not apply to you for money that I know of, but you offered me money and wanted me to name an amount, but I would not—I did not apply to Mr. Holloway for money that I know of—I had my purse on me, I think, at the station, and about 50s. in it—I do not know what became of the 50s.—I was not taken before a Magistrate or fined for being drunk—I am not aware that I obtained 10s. from Mr. Holloway on the day of the committal, and gave him an acknowledgment for it—I was intoxicated at Beeton's refreshment-house on the Friday afternoon, the day of the committal—I did not go to Mrs. Nichols' house on the Friday that I know of—I do not remember taking Miss Allen there, nor on the Saturday—I did not take her there five times that I know of—I did not that I know of obtain from Mr. Holloway a further loan of 30s. to take me back to Liverpool—I am Thomas B. Lancaster, but the Bis omitted in the letter written by Miss Allen—I do not know whether it is my signature; it is not my usual way of signing my name—I did not state at Beeton's that I had no money; I cannot tell you how much I had—I am not aware that I ever took Miss Allen's arm; I do not know her—I should like to see her. (Miss Allen was called into Court.) That is the lady—I saw her on the Monday here, and also on the day the prisoners were tried—I do not recollect taking her to Mrs. Nichols' house—I have not discovered where I slept on the Thursday night after the committal, or whether I slept in London, or where I slept on the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, or whether I went to church on. Sunday—I returned to Liverpool some time in the nest week, but I can't say on what day—my wife could tell you—I am not aware that I said that I would rather lose 100l. than appear against the soldiers—Miss Allen was not with me when I lost my watch, that I am aware of—I became acquainted with her on the Monday at the Old Bailey—I am not aware that I introduced her to everybody as ray cousin—she wanted to take my arm from this Court to Fleet Street, but I prevented her by taking my arm away—you did not tell me that it would be derogatory to the Court for me to retire without its permission—you did not give me the address of three solicitors, and represent that I had better see one of them—I do not recollect the name of Mr. Reader, except in a letter, or Mr. Newhurst, or Mr. Froggart—I swear that I gave you no instructions to employ counsel on my behalf—I got a letter from you after my return to Liverpool, after the trial was over—it could not have affected the trial—I did not charge either of the men with stealing ray watch, but the police did—you told me that the older soldier had been in the regiment seventeen years—I did not pay attention to the character which Sergeant Hollis gave them—you did not tell me that my attendance here was of the highest importance to the soldiers; nothing of the sort—during the time I was in London, I forget where I was—I had no companion, lady or gentleman, day or night, that I am aware of.

Re-examined. I was in such a state after leaving Beeton's on the Friday that I recollected nothing more for two or three days, but when I came to myself I wrote to a friend, and Mr. Mawson came up and took me back to Liverpool—I felt the effects of the liquor I had drunk for some time—I shall be wiser in future, I trust.

THE JURY. If I had had a glass or two too. much, that would not have affected me for two or three days—I came to my senses; I presume when my money ran short and I could not get any more drink—I was more or less intoxicated for several days afterwards.

EDWARD FROGGATT . I am a solicitor of 6, Argyle Street—in 1873 I

acted as agent to the prisoner who was then practising at Slough—ou Saturday, August 14th, he called on me and asked me if I would undertake a prosecution at the Old Bailey Sessions—I said "Yes," and he said that he would bring the brief on Monday—I told him that there would be no great hurry for Monday morning, as there would be no necessity for me to go before the Grand Jury on the Monday, as they were taken up with the Mint and Treasury cases—on Monday, the 16th he brought a brief, and asked me to put my name on the bottom of it, and assuming that I was to act as his agent I did so—he told me I was to deliver the brief to Mr. Straight—it was marked with Mr. Straight's name, and that the prosecutor was anxious to withdraw from the prosecution—I told him the proper course would be to instruct Mr. Straight that the recognizances of the 'prosecutor and witnesses might be discharged—I told him if that was to be done, in addition to seeing the prosecutor and having his written retainer, I must have a written authority to instruct Mr. Straight—he said "There will be no difficulty about it, I have instructed Mr. Williams for the defence"—I said "Then am I to understand that you prosecute and defend as well?"—he said "No, you prosecute and I defend; it will be all right; I have written to the prosecutor"—I said "Good God! Talley, you will get yourself into a mess, old fellow; never do such a foolish thing again; however, you go and see about getting some money from the prosecutor, and get his retainer and authority, and come back to me"—he left the brief with me, and as soon as he had gone I gave it to my clerk with certain instructions—I would have nothing to do with it, and I did not see Talley again until I met him when he was out on bail.

Cross-examined. I have had a case where have instructed counsel to have the recognizances discharged, and I think I can say that when I have been concerned for the defence I have found it necessary to watch the witnesses for the prosecution—I frequently speak to the witnesses for the prosecution; if I defend I have an equal right with the police to speak to them—the instructions were, I think, simply "Brief for the Prosecution, Mr. Straight one guinea"—there was no name at the bottom, and you asked me to put my name—it was not simply a sheet, there was a copy of the depositions inside which I did not read—you told me that you were engaged for the defence—you never mentioned any other attorney's name—you mentioned Mr. Montagu Williams—I have never had any grounds of complaint against you when you have availed yourself of my services in London—my agency ceased a little before the time that you came to London—you came to me to act as agent for you for the prosecution, because you did not know the routine of the Court—I was rather astonished at your coming to me after you had instructed Mr. Reader as your agent in London—I did not know that his agency had ceased; you have not taken out a certificate for London, and. are only entitled to practice in the country—I gave the brief to my clerk, with instructions to strike my name off it, and return it to you—I did not want to offend you, but I would not have undertaken it under any consideration after what you had told me.

MOSES MAWSOA . I am a tea dealer of Liverpool, and a friend of Mr. Lancaster—his letters are directed to my place with my permission—this envelope (C 2) arrived at my place on 15th August, it contained this letter—I had a letter from Lancaster asking for money, and thought it right to come up to London and see what he was doing—his wife had been in town several days—I came up on 3rd August and handed him this letter.

Cross-examined. I met him by appointment in the Euston Road on the morning of 3rd August—I asked him where he was stopping and he did not seem to know, nor could I discover—he was sober, but he did not know what he was doing, I should imagine—I could get nothing out of him—I have known him some years—I did not give him any money or pay anything for him—I took him to Liverpool on 5th August—we stayed at the Arundel on Tuesday night, and on Wednesday night with his brother at Tottenham—he did not go to Drummond's Hotel—I received the letter on a Sunday, and I gave it to Lancaster on the Friday after the trial—his letters are sent to me, because I live in the centre of the town, and he lives in the country—it is convenient for him to call for them. (THE COURT informed the prisoner that most of his questions were irrelevant, and refused to allow several of them to be answered.)

GEORGE READER . I am a solicitor of 11, Gray's Inn Square—in 1874 I conducted a small agency for the prisoner—I have now ceased to be agent for him—on Sunday morning, August 5th, I received this letter from him. (This was dated August 14th, 1875, from the prisoner to the witness, stating that Lancaster had instructed him to apply for leave to withdraw from the prosecution, but that as attorney for the defence he could not accomplish his wishes. without other intervention, which was a mere matter of form, and requesting Mr. Reader's permission to endorse Mr. Straight's brief with his name.) This is a copy of my answer. (This was dated August 14th, from Mr. Reader to the prisoner, stating that he did not consider it a matter of form, and declining to act.) My clerk was subpoenaed—he sent me a telegram and I came home from the Lakes immediately.

Cross-examined. I was admitted in February, 1874—I know nothing about the case—I am usually engaged at Aylesbury on Saturdays, but am always in town on Mondays.

CHARLES LUFF . I am a printer and bookseller of High Street, Slough—I have known the prisoner some years, and know his writing well—this letter and envelope (C 1 and C 2) are in his writing.

Cross-examined. I have never seen you dressed in any way that would persuade persons to believe you to be a vagabond—I have never heard anything injurious to your professional character in Slough. Thomas Crew. I am constable of Fresh Wharf, Lower Thames Street—I was in the soldiers case on the day they were remanded—T saw Mrs. Nichols, and Miss Allen, and the prisoner at the other side of the Mansion House steps waiting to go in—the prisoner was there—Mrs. Nichols came up and made a communication to me—I do not think Talley could hear my reply—he went away with Miss Allen, not arm-in-arm—I think Mrs. Nichols joined them—I afterwards saw them here—I rather think it was on the first day of the Session, August 16th—I saw Talley continually talking to Mr. Lancaster—I saw Miss Allen there, and saw her go away arm-in-arm with Talley on that Monday evening.

Cross-examined. I first saw the soldiers, at the Steam Packet Hotel, which is as respectable an hotel as we have in the neighbourhood of Billingsgate—I saw the soldiers having something to do with Lancaster, and I am pretty certain that they had drugged him; one was as bad as the other, one robbed him and the other put the stuff in to make him silly—after he had taken a glass of whiskey he seemed to lose his senses, and I saw the soldier put something in his pocket—I did not think a soldier with three good conduct badges went out with drugs in his pocket.

By THE JURY. I did not say that I saw somebody put something in the drink.

JOHN HEAVENS (City Policeman 798). I was in charge of the indictment against Nichols and Hawkinson—on 16th August, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, I heard Talley ask Lancaster, to go down and take lunch—they were in the passage leading to the Grand Jury room—Lancaster said "No"—Talley than asked him to go down and have a glass of champagne; he said "No," and then Talley asked him to have a glass of ale, and cigars—I then told Lancaster in Talley's presence that he must not go away as the indictment was in before the Grand Jury, and he would be called upon—Lancaster said "Will you excuse me, I want to go the urinal," he went down stairs and the prisoner followed him—I followed, and saw Lancaster come out of the urinal—Talley then spoke to him outside the Court door, and Holloway joined them—I saw Talley with a paper in his hand, offering it to Lancaster, who refused to take it—they stood there five minutes talking, but I could not hear—I then went to Lancaster, and told him he was to come upstairs at once—Talley followed him upstairs, and tried to draw him away again, but I told him he must not go away—Talley said to me "Have you got Mr. Lancaster in custody?"—I said "No, it is my duty to keep the witnesses and the prosecutor together till after they have passed the Grand Jury"—he still stopped about the different passages and followed us all the afternoon—the bill was found between 4 and 5 o'clock, on the Monday afternoon, not on the Tuesday—the Court adjourned at about 5 o'clock, and I then walked a little way with Lancaster, and left him just this side of the Holborn Viaduct—I then saw Talley, Holloway, Mrs. Nichols, and Miss Allen, join him—I left them talking to him; he said that he was going straight home, and I wished them good-night—he was lodging somewhere in Fleet Street—I saw Hutt, just as we left the Court—I saw them again next day, but we had no conversation—although the soldiers were acquitted, the Common Serjeant ordered the money found on them to be given up to the prosecutor, and I did so.

Cross-examined. Lancaster went before the Grand Jury, between 4 and 5 o'clock on the Monday—I stated on the last occasion that Lancaster, signed the charge sheet, the mistake was that a lady signed it instead of him—that was Miss Chalwin, a witness, in the case—that is the same charge sheet that was produced before the Magistrate; it was signed at that time, she signed it before she left the station—when Lancaster spoke to you I was not aware that he had sent for you—I did not see Miss Allen on Lancaster's arm.

HENRY AVORY REED . I am one of the clerks of this Court—I produce the recognizances entered into by Lancaster, on the prosecution of Nichols and Hawkinson; the indictment which is endorsed "A true bill" by the Grand Jury, and the original depositions.

Cross-examined. I have no means of knowing on what day the bill was found, as no official note is taken as to the date, but any of the witnesses can give the information—the bill is numbered 17, and the practice is that they go before the Grand Jury in the order in which they are numbered.

CHARLES FREDERICK COOKSEY . I am a mechanical engineer, of Queen Victoria Street, City—I was at the Mansion House on two days, the 28th and 30th, I believe—I do not remember seeing Mr. Talley there, but I saw Lancaster—after that I appeared in a case here and saw Talley here—I could not hear the whole of the conversation, but I heard him say to Lancaster

that he hoped he should see him that evening, and that it was a nice quiet place—I had been in conversation with Lancaster the moment before—from what I saw and heard I thought it right to inform the constable Heavens—I had nothing to do with this case.

Cross-examined. I had heard the altercation between you and the policeman—he did not request me to look after you—I was in a case of embezzlement.

WILLIAM HUTT (Detective Officer). On 16th August I was at this Court, and after the Court adjourned I was outside, and saw Lancaster with Heavens (City Policeman 798)—they walked towards the Holborn Viaduct—Heavens left Lancaster, who came back and was talking to a man named Holloway, when Talley brought Miss Allen up on his arm and said "This is the old friend I was speaking about"—he then took Lancaster and Holloway a few yards on, leaving Miss Allen with me, and in about a minute she was called—not liking the look of them, I called Lancaster to me and asked him who these people were (Talley was only 2 or 3 yards from us, and most likely he could hear what was said)—Lancaster said "They are the friends of Nichols"—I said "Whatever you do, don't go into a public-house with them nor sign any paper"—he said "I will just hear what they have got to say, and then I shall go to my hotel"—I left for two or three minutes, and when I walked up the Old Bailey again I saw Miss Allen holding Lancaster's arm, trying to get him into a public-house, Talley and Holloway being close behind—Lancaster would not go into a public-house, and Talley then looked at Miss Allen and nodded his head in the direction of Holborn Viaduct, and they all walked that way, Allen and Lancaster first, and Talley and Holloway 2 or 3 yards behind, who both looked round to see whether 1 was following them—they went over the Viaduct to the corner of St. Andrew's Street and into the new street, where they all stopped and surrounded Lancaster for about ten minutes—he apparently tried to get away, but Allen took hold of his arm again and took him about half-way down the new street, where they stopped again and surrounded him for about half an hour—I saw Talley take some paper from his pocket and appear to be reading to Lancaster, who tried to get away again—he threw down his umbrella and got away for a few yards, but Miss Allen followed him and caught hold of his arm, Holloway and Talley following him—they went on into Farringdon Street, where they stopped again for a few minutes, and Lancaster took his umbrella up and threw it down in a very excited state, and walked away and Holloway, Talley, and Miss Allen had a little conversation—Miss Allen and Holloway then followed and Talley followed a few yards behind them—Holloway spoke to him first—Lancaster crossed over to St. Bride's Avenue to get out of the way, followed by Miss Allen, who caught hold of his arm, and Holloway—I saw detective Hawkins in Fleet Street and asked him to go with me—Miss Allen and Lancaster stopped with Holloway close to them in the court—Holloway turned and saw me and walked into Salisbury Court where he met Talley—when they got close together I took hold of them one by each arm and said "I have a great mind to lock you up for endeavouring to defeat the ends of justice by tampering with the witness"—Talley said "I have done nothing of the kind"—I said "You vagabond, I have been watching you over an hour"—I regretted that as soon as I had said it—we all walked together into St. Bride's Avenue—I had let go of their arms—I touched Miss Allen on the shoulder and said "If I see any more of this I shall lock you up"—Lancaster

saw his opportunity and went away—Talley walked up Fleet Street by my side and said "I am a solicitor and why do you call me a vagabond?" I said "Perhaps struck off the rolls," he not being dressed very well, he had a straw hat, a dust coat, and a coloured waistcoat—I turned into the Temple and he asked my name and I told him to meet me at the Court next morning and I should be prepared to meet any complaint he had got to make—he said "No, I want your name"—he followed me out of the Temple and we met Goodman 445 City, to whom he said "I want this man's name"—Goodman said "Give the gentleman your name"—I said "You know me, Hutt, and took out my warrant card (produced) containing my Christian and surname, which Talley could see if he liked—he said to Goodman "He and others are following me for the purpose of intimidating roe for a pecuniary purpose"—I said "That shows I did not call you out of your name to make that imputation against me"—I then walked away followed by Holloway—I had Lancaster with me all the next day and at the adjournment of the Court I took him opposite to give him some lunch—Talley came in and said "I have the opinion of eminent counsel, if I choose to dine with you I can do it and dare any one to interfere"—I took no notice of him but brought Lancaster over to the Court again—on the Wednesday when the case was called on, Talley came into the Court where Lancaster and I were and gave him a card in an envelope, he looked at it and then gave it to me—Talley asked what he thought of it—Lancaster said "Nothing, what does it mean?"—Talley said "Oh, there is a meaning in it"—after Nichols and Hawkinson were discharged I made an application to Sir Thomas Chambers about the money and he desired me to give it to Lancaster and not to Talley.

Cross-examined. No one gave me instructions to follow you—I am paid so much a week as a detective—I am not paid by the case—I became acquainted with Lancaster by seeing him in the witness box the day after he was robbed—I have been a detective two years—I had no idea that you were an attorney—you did not produce your card—I had no private meeting with the chief clerk previous to 16th August—he did not give me instructions, nor did Sir Robert Carden—I went to Miss Allen after the case was before the Bench to ascertain whether she had given a correct account of herself—I am the nominal prosecutor—I went to an address where she said she did not live at 12, Dukes Row—I became acquainted with her on the 16th of last month, when you introduced her to Lancaster as the friend you had been talking about—she had hold of your arm, and after you left her I said to her, "Mrs. Lancaster, I presume," knowing that Mrs. Lancaster was in London, and she said "No"—I went to Anderton's Hotel with Lancaster and had a cup of tea. (The prisoner persisted in asking questions which the Court informed him had nothing to do with the case.) I was not aware that Lancaster borrowed money of Holloway—Miss Allen told me that she first met Lancaster in the street, by the Mansion House on the Friday—I laid an information against you at the Mansion House, upon which a summons was granted—I did not wait till the Court was cleared, there may have been four or five persons present—I was called into the witness-box here by Sir Thomas Chambers to state what I had seen you do, and you were ordered to be at the Court next morning, when Sir Thomas said that he would wait until the Commissioners had enquired into your complaint against me, and 70s. City, and a number of others—the Corporation have not given me an indemnity—Sir Robert Carden

has not sent for me, and I have had no subsequent conversation with him—I heard on the Tuesday evening of your complaint against me—the Commissioners wanted to see me at the office—I did not arrest you when I saw you with Lancaster because I had a doubt whether it was a charge which we could lock up for ourselves, or whether we required the instructions of a judge, and you had the benefit of it—I did not think I had settled it when I called you a vagabond, but you gave me a direct falsehood, and I spoke hastily—I said that perhaps you had been struck off the rolls—I was a little hot, and so were you—I saw Mrs. Lancaster in the evening, and she asked me to look after her husband the next day—Lancaster did not ask me to lend him any money—during the two days we were together he sometimes paid, and sometimes I did—you and Holloway were working together. (The Jury here interposed, and the Court informed the prisoner that he was injuring his own case). There was. music on the card which you gave to Lancaster, and I took it away because I saw that there was some offensive meaning in it reflecting on Lancaster's character.

The prisoner in his defence addressed the Jury at great length upon several subjects, which the Court informed him were utterly irrelevant to the issue, such as Law Reform, the University boat, race, Epsom Races, and the necessity of appointing a Public Prosecutor, he declared that a conspiracy to oppress him had been got up by the police, he contended that he had done no more than his duty towards the two soldiers who were his clients, and stated that Lancaster had expressed a wish to retire from the prosecution.

Witnesses for the Defence.

MONTAGU WILLIAMS , Esq. (Barrister-at-Law). I received a brief in the soldiers' case on the Thursday or Friday previous to the Sessions held here, and I permitted you to have a copy of it—you took my advice—I can tell you almost what you said to me if you like—the fees were paid, the brief is endorsed—there were four Courts sitting here, and I was engaged in two of them—when the soldiers' case was called on I handed my brief to Mr. Grain, and asked him to read it—Sir Thomas Chambers did what he always does, allowed the case to stand over for a time—Mr. Grain then conducted the case for me, and the soldiers were acquitted, therefore he did as much as I could have done.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. I do not remember seeing this letter (D) until I appeared at the Mansion House, as Counsel for Mr. Talley, on the first occasion—after that I did not appear for him, he defended himself—I cannot remember whether that letter was in the brief I read—I did not see it. (The letter was as follows: "Drummonds Hotel, Euston Road, July 30th, 1875. To James H. Gresham, Esq., Chief Clerk, Mansion House. Reg. on the prosecution of Thomas Lancaster against Nichols, and another. Sir,—I hereby authorise and request you, or whoever else may have the authority of so doing, to pay over and deliver, excepting the watch and chain, to Mr. George Holloway, of 21, Mansion House Street, Camberwell Road, bricklayer, the sum of 3l. 17s., or such lesser amount as may have been taken from the person of James Nichols, the' above-named prisoner committed this day for trial at the Central Criminal Court, and I hereby further give you notice that I abandon all claim to such money, and I hereby indemnify you against any claim on my behalf; I am, sir, your obedient servant Thomas Lancaster, the above-named prosecutor; witness Amelia Allen, 12, Duke's Row, Euston Road.")

JOHN HOLLIS . I am a sergeant in the first battalion of the Coldstream

Guards, and have been so a great many years—I attended at the Mansion House, on the trial of Nichols and Hawkinson, and gave them a good character—I heard the constable Heavens, tell you here that you had very little common-sense, or you would not have been in the witness room—I was on duty there—798 City shoved you and told you to go away or else he would lock you up—that was on the Monday, the day of this Court opening—I know Hawkinson, as Lockingham, and I corrected it at the Mansion House—I saw nothing unseemly in your dress.

Cross-examined. What the officer said was that if he interfered with his witnesses, he would lock him up.

AUSTIN METCALFE , Esq. (Barrister-at-Law). I was instructed by the Court to prosecute the soldiers—not by any attorney—Hutt complained to me about you, and I brought the complaint before the Court—I think Heavens also complained of you—at the end of the case I told Sir Thomas Chambers, what you were charged with doing, and he asked you what you had to say about it—the charge sheet was I believe signed by a lady, Florence Chalwin, but I did not see it—I found it necessary to make a communication to Mr. Grain, who appeared for the defence—he had only just been instructed, and I felt it necessary to warn him not to put in the letter purporting to be signed by Mr. Lancaster (Letter D), because I thought it unfair to the prisoners—I did not want Mr. Grain to fall into a trap, as he knew very little about the case—I did not know that Mr. M. Williams had the letter on his brief.

Cross-examined. To the best of my belief letter D was put into the prosecutor's hands by Mr. Grain, and afterwards part of it read to the Jury, and then Sir T. Chambers objected and prevented the rest being read—I complained to the Court of Talley pursuing the witnesses, and stated that the police complained that it was with seat difficulty that Lancaster could be kept from him at all, as Talley was continually going up to him, and trying to get him away.

Re-examined. I had no opportunity of testing the truth of what the police said—Sir Thomas did not believe it without evidence, he examined the witnesses himself, and you were ordered to attend next morning, but I was not there next day.

JOHN PETER GRAIN , Esq. (Barrister-at-Law). I cannot recollect how much of this letter was read in the hearing of the Jury—my impression is that it was all read by some one or other—I believe Lancaster said to me that it was not his signature; then he said "I am not sure of it, as one of my Christian names is left out"—Sir T. Chambers then took it in his hand, and my impression is that he read the whole of it, or the greater part of it, in the hearing of the Jury—Mr. Metcalf made a great many communications to me.

SIR THOMAS CHAMBERS . I made an order for the money found on the prisoners to be given to Lancaster—I do not remember your attempting to controvert it—I received a letter from you apologising for having claime the money—I have never said that you controverted my order—my clerk has your letter.

By THE COURT. I have no recollection whether letter D was read to the Jury or not; I do not remember anything about it—I have never seen it before.

AMELIA ALLEN . On 28 July I met you at the Mansion House, and Mr. Lancaster introduced me to you as his cousin—I knew him first—we went

to a refreshment-house near the Mansion House; I don't know the name of it—I don't think he asked you individually to lend him money, but you and Holloway were together, and he asked you both—he expressed a wish. to retire from the prosecution—I heard you inform Sir R. Carden of that circumstance, but do not remember what he said—no consent was given—I wrote this letter (D), and saw Mr. Lancaster sign it—I attested his signature—he was neither drunk nor sober—he had no money about him; he made several applications for some—there is no pretence for saying that you introduced me to Lancaster—when he asked you for money you told him distinctly that you would not give it to him, as it would injure the case; he wanted it very much—after leaving the refreshment-house we took the train to Westminster, and went to Mrs. Nichols' house—you came there also—I don't know whether you came with us but you were there—Lancaster was sober enough to walk through the streets—there is no pretence for saying that he could not understand what was said to him—it was promised that Mrs. Nichols should give him some money—he got 10s. and signed this receipt for it, which is in my writing, "July 30, 1875, Received of Mr. George Holloway 10s. on account. T. B. Lancaster. Witness, Amelia Allen" the letter was signed at the refreshment-house; nothing was done clandestinely or secretly—I may have said "Well, he really wants the money to get home with"—I knew he wanted to return to Liverpool—Holloway also came to Nichols' house—we went there again on the 31st for more money which was promised—he could not get to Liverpool for 10s., and he urged that as one object for procuring money—he went there two or throe times, but could not get the money, as Mrs. Nichols was out—he was in about the same state the following day, neither drunk nor sober—this other receipt is in Lancaster's writing, but I did not see him write it. (Bead: "London, July 31, received from Mr. G. Holloway, 30s. on account; 1l. 10s. T. B. Lancaster.") It was arranged on the Tuesday night that Mrs. Nichols and Mr. Holloway between them should make up this amount of money, and Lancaster was to call for it on Saturday afternoon at 4 o'clock, and we did so—I heard that the money was to be repaid to Mr. Holloway from the money in Court—Hutt called on me to see where I resided—he may have been with me twenty minutes—I cannot tell you exactly what passed—he has not called on me about this case, but I spoke to him—I went to your office one evening when the soldiers' trial was on, and wrote a letter to you at your desk, and one to Lancaster—you offered me your arm on leaving this Court, as there were a great many vehicles passing, and I walked up the street with you a little way—we spoke to Lancaster and to Hutt, and then returned and chatted for a few minutes—I don't think I ever saw you give drink to Lancaster—you did not annoy or importune him in any way—I have not seen Lancaster since that Monday night.

Cross-examined. I live at 12, Duke's Row, Euston Road—I have not lived there very long—I was living there when I was examined at the Mansion House, and I am afraid I swore positively that I did not live there—I swore that I lived at 35, Euston Road; that was false—I did not want it to get into the newspapers, or for my friends to know that I was connected with the case—they knew that I lived at 12, Duke's Row—it has ruined me already—I have been in service a short time, and lately I have been working at Berlin work—I did not know Talley, or Holloway, or any of those people—I first knew Lancaster on 29th July I think; that

was the day after the hearing at the Mansion House, and the day before the hearing of the remand—I met him merely as a casual acquaintance in Pentonville Road, near King's Cross Station—I went to the Mansion House with him—I cannot swear whether Mrs. Nichols introduced me to Talley—Talley said that he was a solicitor, and gave me his card—he told me that he was without money—we were all in the same eating-house, and we all drank together, except Talley, who dined—he did not drink with us, but we all sat together—Talley was eating a fowl—Mrs. Holloway and Mrs. Nichols paid for the drink—we stayed there an hour, and had two quarts of ale—it was there that the letter was written to Mr. Gresham, the chief clerk—Lancaster had been drinking since the previous Saturday, and was not able to write very well—he was fearfully excited, but able to walk and talk—no one told me what to write—I am not acquainted with the law—Mr. Talley gave me the address, and dictated "Regina on the Prosecution of Thomas Nichols and another"—I think this, "I hereby authorise and require you, or whoever else may have the authority of so doing, to pay over and deliver," is mine; I wrote it and read it to Talley, and he made a few alterations; there was a draft which I think I tore up—I wrote the draft, on my oath—Lancaster commenced it, and I said "You can't write, I will write it"—Lancaster was sitting next to Talley, and I was sitting one or two off—I asked Talley what I should say and who I should write to—he suggested "Regina on the prosecution of," and I wrote it—Lancaster could not write very nicely, his condition was easily seen—we then all went by train to Tachbrook Street, and stayed there till dusk, which, in July, was eight or nine o'clock—when we got out of the train, instead of going to Tachbrook Street, Talley left us for the purpose of getting some money for the prosecutor—the others said that they were going to some relation of Holloway's for this money for Lancaster—they were gone about a quarter of an hour—we arrived at the house at about 7 or 8 o'clock—Talley and Holloway came there afterwards—we had some tea there, and there was some beer, but I did not drink any—the landlady, Mrs. Perry, was there—I think Lancaster had some tea, I don't know whether he had any beer—Talley and Holloway stayed till we all came away—Talley walked to the corner with us, and then left—I saw him again on the 16th, he was there pretty well all day—he left at 5 or 6 o'clock when the Court rose—I was not bothering Lancaster at all—I wanted him to withdraw from the prosecution lots of times, and I believe I humbled myself before him—we went over the Viaduct, and down the new street by the Church—that was a long way round to the Salisbury Hotel—Holloway and Talley followed us about the length of this Court behind—I do not know why they. went that way, I did not want them—I kept persuading Lancaster to withdraw, but he would not, he was sober then.

Re-examined. Lancaster said that he would do anything he could to save the prisoners—he asked you to whom he should address the letter; I do not remember what answer you gave him—I heard you make an application to Sir Robert Carden, but cannot tell now what you said—Lancaster appeared an educated man, he writes a very good hand—there is no pretence for saying that there were any importunities on your part to induce him to do anything that I am aware of—he gave the letter as a guarantee to Holloway for the money he was going to receive—I took the letter from him because he was making such a bungle of it—Holloway said that the letter was useless to him for the purpose of

obtaining money—Lancaster offered him an I O U and he would not accept it—he said "I don't know anything about you or where you come from"—Lancaster promised payment when he received the money at the Court; I think I can swear to that—that was on the Friday—I am not Lancaster's cousin, that was more a joke than anything else—he treated me with every amount of respect—I assisted him as far as I could and so I would anybody.

By THE COURT. I do not recollect Talley producing a paper and asking Lancaster to sign it on 16th August after we left this Court and went to the Holborn Viaduct, nor on any occasion—no papers were produced that I saw on any part of that evening—I do not. believe I ever saw Mrs. Nichols on the Viaduct in my life, certainly not on that night—we all came out of the Court together, but I left her standing in the street and did not see her again—I was a stranger to all the parties till I was introduced by Lancaster.

MAJOR HENRY BOWMAN I am acting commissioner of the City Police during the absence of Colonel Frazer—you informed me that Sir Robert Carden referred you to me—where there are two contentious parties and two summonses, it is usual to hear the first summons first and then the other—I do not recollect the date that the summons was obtained against you—I reported to Sir Robert Carden that you had been sent to me to settle a complaint—I don't know whether that was before Hutt's summons was issued—I did not make a report at Guildhall.

LOUISA PRICE . I keep the house 52, Conduit Street, and you rent an office of me—you never gave leave for. Miss Allen to come there to write letters.

SIR ROBERT CARDEN . I am an alderman of the City of London and. have been Lord Mayor—I am engaged on the Stock Exchange—I remember your presenting yourself before the Bench on the 27th or 29th July—I do not remember your addressing me on the 30th in reference to the soldiers—I understood that you were for the defence, and I don't understand how you should make any application for the prosecution—the only application made to me was by Hutt—I remember your appearing for the soldiers—I never prevented your cross-examining the witnesses that I know of—you had a long paper which you wished to read, and it was suggested that you should leave it for another occasion—I should not have refused, your cross-examining as a solicitor making the application for the defence of your clients, I always give the greatest facility to solicitors for defending their clients—if I did say when you were present on the second examination that you were not to cross-examined, no doubt I had good reasons for it, but I am not aware of it—I recollect 17th August when you applied for a summons against Hutt, you wished to make a public statement which I declined to allow on your ex-parte statement, and I advised you to. See Major Bowman, and you thanked me very much for my advice—I did not know when you made the application, that you had just come from Guildhall where your application had been refused.

GEORGE HOLLOWAY . I am a bricklayer—I first went to the Mansion House on 30th July, 1875—I met Lancaster there, who wanted to borrow money of you, as his money was stopped in Court, and he only bad 2s. and wanted money, to go home to Liverpool—you positively declined, on account of the position you stood in as solicitor—Lancaster introduced Miss Allen us both as his cousin, outside the Mansion House—Lancaster applied to

Sir Robert Carden for the money detained in Court to be paid over to him and I told Sir Robert that I had lent Nichols 3l.—the money was going to be paid over if I had not been there—there had been a previous application with regard to it, and Sir Robert had made an order that the lady witnesses should have 1l. each—I made an objection to that—I made no use of this letter, because I was told by a party who read it over to me that it was of no use and that I could not get one farthing from the Court, and I did not ask him for it—he commenced writing it, but could not do it, and Miss Allen said that she would do it for him—I do not know what led to it, but he said that he did not wish to prosecute the soldiers—Hutt has been to my place about my character, and I have my testimonials in my pocket—he said that he was sent by Sir Robert Carden, and we went—into the Castle public-house and had a glass of ale each, which Hutt paid for—Lancaster seemed rather jealous of anybody speaking a word to Miss Allen; they walked arm-in-arm in the street—he asked me or Mrs. Nichols to lend him 2l. to go home to Liverpool, and I lent him 10s. to pay for his lodging, and 30s. more on the Saturday—he offered me an I O U, but being no scholar, I did not take it—Miss Allen wrote a receipt for the 10s., which he signed—I think I know Miss Allen's writing, but I cannot read this letter to Mr. Gresham—the signature is not the same as it is on the receipt; there is a "B" deficient, but I saw Lancaster sign it—he wrote two or three sheets of the letter and then said he felt too shaky, and asked Miss Allen to do it for him—there is no pretence for saying that you supplied him with drink; I paid for some beer, and he paid for some out of his two—shilling piece—he promised to pay me back my money at the Court on 16th August, and 16s. interest; I toll him that no one could get 16s. interest for that money—on 16th August he said that he could not pay me, as his wife had all the money and would not allow him to have any, but he would try to get it for me—he has not paid map—he said that if I went to the private hotel in Fleet Street he would see if his wife would give me the money, but I could not recollect the name of the hotel and did not go—I am not certain whether it was Anderton's—I saw Hutt lay his hand on you in Salisbury Court and say "You vagabond, you have been trying to get that man to keep out of Court"—I asked Lancaster if Talley had been trying to bribe him—he said "No"—Hutt said "If you had been a respectable solicitor, you would not have done what you have done"—you offered him your card—I never walked arm-in-arm with you in my life—I handed you, at the Mansion House, a County Court summons and other papers, and gave you special instructions on other private business of mine—I heard you persuading Lancaster to attend the Court, not to keep away; he wanted to withdraw, and you told him he could not do so without making a special application to the Court—he said that he never made any charge against the soldiers, and did not want to prosecute them; all he wanted was his watch and chain, and that if he wanted a solicitor he should employ you; he thought you a very clever man, and he asked you to instruct some one on his behalf—I heard you mention Mr. Reader—he wished Mr. Reader to come forward on his behalf, and he wished to withdraw from the Court altogether—he said that he was no prosecutor; it was the two females and the other witness who were the prosecutors—you told him that it would be best to apply to an attorney at Liverpool, and he said that he would do so—he applied at the Mansion House for his watch and chain, but Sir Robert objected to give them up; he ordered the girls a sovereign each, but I

heard that they only got 5s.—you never asked Lancaster to sign anything, nor produced any paper for his signature—Hutt stopped us both as we were walking in the street, and he left a black mark on my arm, which my mistress saw; I never was laid hold of so sharply in my life—I never saw you annoying Lancaster—he has not offered me the money; I went to speak to him the day before yesterday, and he would not speak to me at all.

Cross-examined. I am a working bricklayer, and I take piecework as well—my last piecework was some arches in Lantac Road, Brixton—I decline to say whether it was two years ago—my employer was Mr. Douglas, a little builder of Lantac Road—it was not two years ago—I have also worked for Mr. Duncan. of London Road, about six weeks—if I said "Anglesea Road" before the Magistrate, that must have been a mistake—I am working for nobody at present—the last person I worked for was Mr. Oliver, a builder of Cold Harbour Lane, Camberwell, at the Surrey Hall—that is since last Session—I worked for him a fortnight or three weeks at day work, up to last Saturday—I went to the eating-house with. Talley—I had something to drink, and he had a chicken for his dinner—Lancaster suggested this letter to Miss Allen, but half the time I was not in there, and when I came in the letter was there—I heard it next day when a friend of mine read it—I don't know whether Talley and I went in the same carriage to Pimlico—I left them at Morton Street, where I introduced Talley to my brother—I went there to borrow some money for myself, because I had none—I was not hard up, but I had not sufficient for my own use—I was in the 67th Regiment two years and 217 days, eighty-four of which days I spent in prison for striking my superior officer on the eye—I have never been charged" with felony—I lived at West Leamington, near Devizes—I spent two or three days in prison at Devizes because I would not round on another gentleman—I was charged with stealing a calf's pluck—I don't know how many days I got for that—I have got my discharge here, it says "an indifferent character," having been tried—I have got a good character from the minister.

JAMES HAREBOOTH GRESHAM . I am chief clerk at the Mansion House—' I produce the notes taken in this prosecution and the previous one—this (produced) is the charge sheet in the case of the soldiers—I remember it by the peculiar handwriting of Florence Chalwin—it states the prosecutor signed the charge sheet at the station—there may be a clerical error in the depositions occasionally, we are all fallible—Miss Chalwin is put in the charge sheet in the line" of "persons charging"—my recollection of the case is that it was chiefly owing to her that the prisoners were given in charge—anybody may be the prosecutor nominally—I can't say that I recollect on the first occasion anything as to the withdrawal of the charge—if the prosecutor gave further evidence on the 30th it would be in the depositions—I don't recollect that on the second occasion you were prohibited from cross-examining witnesses—it is very unusual—I have no recollection of it—Sir Robert Carden heard that case, and I am sure he would never prevent any solicitor cross-examining.

REBECCA NICHOLS . I recollect the accusation that was preferred against my husband and another soldier on the 28th, they were remanded until the 30th—I did not become acquainted with Lancaster until the 30th—he was drunk the first day—on the 30th he went down into the cell—I purchased a bottle of beer and I took it down to give my husband in the cell,

and they would not allow him to see my husband—Miss Allen was with him—he waited outside while I went inside—he followed you and me and Holloway to Walbrook, to Dickenson's refreshment-house, and Miss Allen with him—when I went on the 30th I found him with Miss Allen on his arm, and he asked me "Had I got a counsel for my husband," I said, "Of course I have a solicitor here," and he was very anxious to know where he was—I found you and introduced you to him—I had previously given you instructions to defend my husband—when you went to him he said that he would give 100l. if he could only withdraw from it altogether—you told him that he really could not do so, that he would have to attend the Court and show himself, that he must not stop away on any consideration whatever—this took place outside the Mansion House—he asked you if there was any way in which he could employ counsel to withdraw, you told him that it was out of his power altogether to do it himself, but you could recommend him to a solicitor—I can't say whether you made any representation to Sir Robert Carden, but on the second occasion when Lancaster was sober and collected, he said since the last occasion he could recall it to his mind, and could recollect the senior soldier giving him his address, and he gave him his, and he thought Sir Robert could deal with the case and allow the two soldiers to go, as he wished to get back to Liverpool, and Sir Robert said it was out of his power, he must send it for trial—Lancaster was not sober enough to ask him on the first occasion, but on the second occasion that was his application—the Court adjourned, and we all went to this eating-house, and he asked Mr. Talley could he lend him any money for he was destitute—Mr. Talley said "Certainly not, I have no money to lend you, if I had I should certainly not lend it to you for I should prejudice the case"—he then applied to me, and I said, "Don't apply to me if you please, Mr. Lancaster, for I am poor, I have nothing to help myself with"—he then applied to a young may named Holloway, and Holloway told him that he had not got any money about him, in fact, he did not see why he should lend him money as a stranger—I think Miss Allen called and paid for a pot of stout and mild, and Holloway paid for another, and that was all the refreshment we had—Mr. Talley had his own refreshments himself—Lancaster pestered Holloway for some money—he said "If you will go with me to my brother's in Pimlico I will see whether he will lend me some money"—he went it appears to his brothers, I believe Mr. Talley accompanied him to the house, and Lancaster was there waiting for him—when Holloway came back he said he was only able to borrow 10s.—He said "I can only lend you 10s., if that is no use I can't lend you any more"—Lancaster said "That will do for me to get over to-night with in London, but what can you lend me tomorrow to get home to my wife and family in Liverpool," and he said he would lend him 30s. more—next day Lancaster and Miss Allen came five times to our house and I was absent, and when I came home I found Mr. Holloway, Miss Allen, and Mr. Lancaster in my landlady's parlour, and Mr. Lancaster was then asking my landlady for pen and ink and paper to sign the receipt for 30s., and he promised to pay it back on 16th August to Holloway, the day of the trial of the two soldiers—he went away and I saw no more of him till we came to the Court here on the 16th August—he shook hands with me and asked me how I was—I asked him if the name was up, and he said "No, it is not up this morning, and I think I shall die before it is over"—I said "I think it is nearly settling me"—he said "Have you seen Mr. Talley this

morning l"—I said "No, I Lave not seen him at present"—he said "1 wish you could find him for I want to speak to him"—I found Mr. Talley, and brought him into the witnesses waiting room, and introduced him—they shook hands, and Mr. Lancaster said "Some one has told me that you have asked me to have some champagne last night;" and he said "Why should I ask you to have it, it is quite out of my position"—he pulled Mr. Talley's chain which he had on his waistcoat, and said "Oh, you young rascal, if I had not known where my watch and chain was, I should have thought this was mine"; and they were quite playing and laughing—they turned from me and had some conversation with themselves—Mr. Lancaster told me that he only wished he had his watch and chain, that he would not have been here only for that, he did not wish to lose that—Lancaster was sober every time I saw him except the first time, on the 28th, he was very drunk then, at the Mansion House—he was sober on the 30th—I heard Mr. Talley advise him on the 30th, that he would have to attend the Court, if not he would forfeit his recognizance—on the day before the acquittal, you and Lancaster were talking, and he left the Court arm-in-arm with Miss Allen, and you went with them and told me to wait outside—I waited there for two hours, but you did not return—I was never on the Viaduct—the constable swore that I was on the Viaduct with him, and I was not—I had no knowledge of Miss Allen before Mr. Lancaster brought her to me at the Mansion House on the 28th—he introduced me to her as his cousin, and they seemed to be very fond of one another—I thought they had known one another for years—after the acquittal, Mr. Lancaster came to me and said "Are you satisfied Mrs. Nichols?"—I said "I am quite satisfied, for I knew my husband was not guilty;" and he said "I will get up a fine case for old Talley yet"—I did not see Hutt with him then—you told me to be careful of Lancaster, for you did not think much of him—you told me that several times—I had to pledge my sewing machine—I never saw you following Lancaster about—I went to your office once, but you were absent—the servant gave me a pen and ink, and I requested that you should come to my house near the barracks—you would have to see the sergeant at the barracks.

Cross-examined. I had told Mr. Talley about pledging the sewing machine—I told him at the Mansion House, and he examined me about it—my husband's brother found the funds for the defence—Mr. Talley had 10l. from him after they were committed for trial—I paid him him a guinea before—the 2l. supposed to be paid to Lancaster was lent by Holloway—I was in great difficulties at that time—to raise the guinea for Mr. Talley for ray husband's defence, I had to borrow something from my landlady to pawn—I was without any means in the world—I knew Holloway was about to lend 2l. to a perfect stranger—Holloway is my brother—I have not told you that before, because I was not asked; if I had been I should have humbly owned it—if you had asked me I should have told you.

ELIZA KERRY . I live at 10, Upper Gardner Street—my husband is in the Coldstreams and has been for seventeen years—Mrs. Nichols is a friend of mine—the day the soldiers were locked up I was with her—I recollect Mr. Lancaster coming there—I went there to see how the soldiers got on—Mr. Lancaster was sober when I saw him—he had some tea there and I saw him begin to write on some paper and Miss Allen took it out of his hand and wrote it herself; that was in Mrs. Chappell's parlour in Tachbrook Street where Mrs. Nichols lives—he wanted to borrow some—

money to get home to his wife in Liverpool—he introduced Miss Allen to me as his cousin—they were very friendly together and I thought they had been acquainted for years—they sat together and had tea together—Miss Allen asked Mr. Holloway to get some money for him, she said it would be quite right, he would be paid back again if he gave it—I was at the Court here on the Wednesday when the soldiers were discharged—Mr. Lancaster came up and shook hands with me in Court—when he came out of Court he asked Mrs. Nichols if she was satisfied and she said yes, she believed her husband would get off for he was innocent, and he said he would get up a case for old Talley—that was the last I saw of him—I saw Lancaster and Hutt several times during the day together drinking over the way in the public-house, but I never spoke to them nor they to me.

Cross-examined. I went to Mrs. Nichols' house because she was a friend of mine and I have been in the habit of visiting the house—Mr. Talley was there, but not when the money was being talked over—Mr. Lancaster was sitting having his tea, but afterwards he was talking about borrowing 2l.

DAVID HAWKINS (City Detective). I have been a constable eighteen years—on Monday, 16th August, about 5.50 in the evening, I was standing at the corner of Bride Lane, Fleet Street, when I saw the officer Hutt—I spoke to him and he said there were two men and a woman following a witness about—at that time I saw Mr. Lancaster cross the road opposite St. Bride's Church, Miss Allen followed him across the road, they turned into Bride's Avenue, Hutt and I went into Bride's Avenue and passed them—Lancaster and Miss Allen were speaking together—we then got into Salisbury Street—I did not see Mr. Talley at all then—they stood at the top of the court for a minute when Holloway came up—Hutt stopped him—almost immediately Mr. Talley appeared—Hutt also stopped him and asked him what he meant by following a witness about—Mr. Talley said "I have not"—Hutt said "You have and I have been following you over an hour"—Mr. Talley said "I have not crone anything of the kind"—Hutt said "You know you have and you are offending against the law by tampering with a witness"—we then turned into Bride's Avenue where Lancaster and Miss Allen were talking together—I was there to assist Hutt—went and spoke to Lancaster, I don't know what he said, but apparently Mr. Lancaster was anxious, to get away and he went into Fleet Street and I saw nothing more of him—Hutt and I then went into Fleet Street and Mr. Talley and Holloway followed us—Mr. Talley spoke to Hutt and they went away together leaving Holloway at the back—I went as far as Temple Bar and left them—Mr. Talley never spoke to me at all, he never asked me for my name and I did not hear him ask Hutt for his—I did not see him offering Hutt his card—I saw nothing that would justify his arrest—I was not present when Hutt laid his hands on him.

THOMAS GOODMAN (City Policeman 445). On Monday, 16th August, you spoke to me at Temple Bar—you told me you wanted that man's name, that was Hutt—you said that he had been following you and that he had told you you were a vagabond and had assaulted you by forcibly taking hold of your arm—I did not know Hutt at first, but I recollected him before we parted—he produced his warrant card with his name on it—you requested his Christian name also, and he said the name of Hutt was quite sufficient—he did not give his Christian name—a policeman usually gives his name if a private person wants it—I should give it at once if I was challenged.

Cross-examined. The name of William Hutt was on the card—Hutt said to me "Goodman I will tell you all about it; I have been watching him for an hour, from the Old Bailey, he came by the Holborn Viaduct, Far-ringdon Street, to Bride's Avenue, and has been attempting to persuade a witness not to attend the Old Bailey to-morrow to give evidence."

Re-examined. That was the statement he made to me—that would not be the regular way to Fleet Street, the nearest way would be down Ludgate Hill.

ELLEN CHAPPELL . I live at 69, Tachbrook Street—Nichols and his wife resided in the kitchens—I remember' Mr. Lancaster coming to my house, but I don't exactly know the date—he came with Miss Allen, and be introduced her to me as his cousin—he had some tea at my house—he did not appear affected by drink in any way—I did not notice anybody influencing or inducing him to anything—he had nothing but two cups of tea at my place—he appeared sober going out—I saw him write something, and—Miss Allen finished it, because his hand was rather shakey—I can't tell you what she put—he came five times on the Saturday, to my place—I told him Mrs. Nichols and Mr. Holloway had not come home—he bad received 10s. on the Friday, and he wanted the other 30s. on the Saturday, and I saw him take both—you were at my house sometime on the Friday, but I did not see you there on the Saturday—I knew you were concerned for Mrs. Nichols' husband—you came to see what you could do in getting him out I believe.

Cross-examined. I saw the document which Mr. Lancaster began, and which was finished by Miss Allen—I can't tell you what was in it for I really did not look—I can declare to the paper I lent them—there was One on the Friday, and on the Saturday, I believe he had one—I should not know the document again—I should know the paper that I lent Mrs. Nichols for it—this is the paper—it was just the same as this—I tore it oft a large piece of paper like that—it was a piece of that shape and style—I can't say which day that was written—I know Mrs. Nichols borrowed my ink and pen two days, the Friday and the Saturday—I believe she borrowed paper once—Holloway was present when the document was begun by Lancaster, and finished by Miss Allen, I think Mrs. Nichols went out of the room—I am quite sure she did at the time.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

THIRD COURT—Friday, September 24th, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-522

522. DONALD CAREY (32) , Stealing one bag and one cheese, and other articles, of the Co-operative Wholesale Society, Limited, his masters, SAMUEL SEAL (51) and ELIZABETH KING (54), receiving the same, knowing them to have been stolen.


MR. STRAIGHT and MR. HORACE AVORY conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS appeared for Seal, and MR. MOODY for King.

EDWIN WILLIAMS (City Policeman 786). In consequence of instructions I received on Friday, the 3rd. September, I watched the premises 118, America Square, the business place of the Wholesale Co-operative Stores Society, Limited—at 1.55 I saw a man named Rowley leave the warehouse with a tub of butter—Carey was standing at the door—the tub was placed down in the Minories, and a man was beckoned from the opposite side of

the street—when he crossed over he inquired the contents of the tub—it was afterwards taken to No. 10, Minories—something was said to Mrs. King, and they left the shop—they both went into a public-house together afterwards—at 2.30 on the same day I saw Carey go into the shop No. 10, Minories—he was there a short time and then came out—on the 4th I saw Carey leave the warehouse, and go into 10, Minories—he came out and walked to the top of the Minories; I saw him speaking to Seal—on the 6th September, at 1.55 I saw Carey come out of the warehouse; he went next door, and held up his finger to some one inside—Rowley came out and followed Carey to the warehouse—Carey took up a bag of twelve cheeses and gave it Rowley, who took it to King's. shop, No. 10, Minories—on his coming out the officer Childs spoke to Rowley; he also spoke to Carey—on my return to 10, Minories, we took the prisoners to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. No. 10 is a chandler's shop—the female prisoner is indicted as Elizabeth King, and the name over the door is F. King—I have ascertained that F. King is their brother-in-law—all the goods that come from the society are brought out from the back entrance.

ROBERT CHILDS (City Detective). In consequence of something said to me I passed the shop 10, Minories and saw Seal and King taking butter out of a tub—on the 6th September I was watching with Williams, and saw, at about 2 o'clock,' Rowley leave the warehouse with a bag containing twelve cheeses—Carey at that time was at the door of the warehouse in America Square—I saw Rowley take the bag to 10, Minories, leave it there, and come away—I then handed him over to Williams, and went into the shop and saw Mrs. King and Seal—I said "I am a police officer; this bag has been stolen by a man named Carey, I shall charge you with receiving it, knowing it to have been stolen"—Seal replied "It has just come from the Midland Railway," at the same time handing me this consignment note (produced)—I said "You will also be charged with receiving a tub of butter on Friday last"—he told me his name was not King, that he simply was a servant, and that Mrs. King and himself managed the business, but he was the responsible party—he further stated that he did not deny having bought goods of Carey, and that he possessed invoices—I obtained these invoices (produced) after a little struggle—I left Williams in the shop in charge of Seal and Mrs. King while I went after Carey, whom I took to the station, and afterwards returned to the shop—I sent Williams on to the station with Seal—I found this consignment note marked B (produced), which relates to a firkin of butter—I took Mrs. King to the station—I also found a. cash book and some empty butter tubs, the latter of which I took to the station and showed to Mrs. King, stating that Mr. Jones, the manager of the society, had identified them as the property of the society—these are the heads of the tubs (produced)—I went to Carey's house and found six books amongst other things, which appear to have been used as delivery books.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. Seal did not deny that he had bought the goods from Carey—I omitted for a short time to speak about the firkin of butter—the Co-operative Stores call themselves wholesale dealers, but they supply retail—I have never seen any goods sent away from these stores except from the rear entrance in America Square—I found all the invoices bearing Carey's name on the file—in the cash-book there are various entries, chiefly corresponding with the invoices.

Cross-examined by MR. MOODY. There was a painter at work, at No. 10, Minories—I went into the front room, a sitting-room, and there were two files of invoices there—I had been away from the place for some time—Seal was downstairs at the time Mrs. King went up.

BENJAMIN JONES . I am manager of the London Branch of the Whole-sale Co-operative Society—the business is wholesale in groceries and provisions—we supply retail co-operative societies, and no one else—Carey was in our employ as warehouse foreman—he had been with us about sixteen months—his duties were to receive goods into the warehouse and send goods out—I have seen some Dutch cheeses, which are similar to those in our warehouse—I have also seen some tubs, which bear our mark upon them—I identify these order-books (produced) as belonging to the society—Carey had not the control over them—I have seen these invoices (produced); the writing upon them is by Carey—I know the prices the society were charging for these goods at the time, and observe those on the invoices for which these goods were sold, but prices vary—the prices obtained for these goods are considerably too low—I have missed some goods since July last.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. I am a buyer and salesman too occasionally—I form my estimate that these are low prices, knowing what the goods are selling at—we are very particular to whom we sell; we sell only to co-operative societies—we do not supply private tradesmen—'it is a question of consideration whether our goods are too good for them—we try not to sell goods that are bad—we do not sell spoiled goods to our own customers—we supply no other persons but our own customers in the regular way of trade—ours is a regular way of trade—we occasionally sell a small parcel of goods if it is not good enough for our customers; if it is not good enough for our customers, it is good enough for private selling—we do not try to dispose of them in the ordinary way; we certainly tell them they are bad—our sales pass through our books—we sold about the time in question two sides of bacon, not fit for our trade, to a man who paid ready money for them—Carey had three men under him—it was a principle before last Christmas to sell goods to our own people to the extent of their own consumption, at least that is what was understood—it would not be Carey's duty to make out invoices, but the clerk's.

WILLIAM ROWLET . I am a carman, of 55, Abchurch Lane, Commercial Road—I work next door to the Co-operative Stores, and have known Carey for some. time by sight—on Friday, the 3rd September, about 2 o'clock, he called to me; he fetched me out—I took a firkin of butter to No. 10, Minories, the name of King—I have at other times taken things to the same shop, and have seen Mrs. King, and have delivered them to her—on Monday, 6th, I took a bag of cheese there, and saw both Seal and King in the shop.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. When I took it Carey gave me the consignment note of the Midland Railway—I did not think there was anything wrong about this transaction, and I was taken into custody.

Witnesses as to Seal's character.

FREDERICK KING . I am a farmer, not residing in London—the shop in the Minories belongs to me, and I have engaged Seal to manage the business—he has been in my employ over three years—I had a reference with him when I engaged him—I have every confidence in the man, and would place him in the same position again.

WILLIAM WARD , of 45 and 209, Holloway Road, also deposed to Seal's good character.


There were other indictments against them, upon which no evidence was offered.


CAREY— Judgment respited.

FOURTH COURT.—Friday, September 24th, 1875.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-523

523. JAMES HAYDON (16) , Feloniously forging and uttering an order for 3l. 15s. with intent to defraud.

MR. MILLWOOD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. TICKELL the Defence.

JOHN LAVET . I am an outfitter at 14, East Smithfield—on 11th August, about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came to my shop with this seaman's advance note for 3l. 15s. and asked if I would cash it—he said he wanted 2l. cash and the rest in clothing—I said I would give him 30s. and the rest in clothes—he said "Very well"—I said "There is the name written twice on the back of this note, how is that?"—he said "That is the way I have done it before"—I said "If you bring security to-morrow morning for the 30s. I will do it"—he said "Give me something to take me home"—I gave him 1s.—something occurred to me after he went and I looked at the note again and then I went up to Messrs. Gellatly, Hankey & Sewell—the following morning the prisoner was sitting in the shop when I came in—I said "Where did you get this?"—he was rather impudent and said the captain gave it him—I gave him in charge—this is the note (produced)—the name of George Fry is at the back, written twice.

Cross-examined. I will not be positive that I said before the Magistrate anything about the prisoner saying that was the way he did it before—my evidence was not read over to me and I was rather surprised—the Magistrate asked me if I saw him sign the no to and I said "No," but I called his attention to it, being written twice, and he said what I tell you—I agreed to give him the 30s. before I asked for the security.

CHARLES HOWIDGE . I live at 34, Shaftesbury Road, Holloway, and am clerk to Messrs. Gellatly, Hankey &, Co.—I did not know the prisoner till I saw him at the police-court—we have no ship named the Howker, nor are we agents for any vessel of that name—we have no captain in our employ of the name of Thomas Simmons—this is not one of our advance notes.

JOHN NORMAN (Policeman H 270J. The prisoner was given into my custody on 12th August for uttering this forged note—he said he was very sorry, but he had been tempted by some other persons—he has got a very. good discharge from his last ship.

GUILTY. of uttering — One Month's Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-524

524. ROBERT ANTHONY (21), JOHN WILLIAMS (24), and ROBERT MURPHY (17) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of George Alexander Buckland and stealing 600 postage stamps and a quantity of zinc.


MR. MOODY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. LYON defended Anthony.

JAMES O'DEA (City Detective). About 1 o'clock on the morning of 10th August I was with Pickles, another detective, at the corner of Cranbourne Street, St. Martin's Lane—I had known the three prisoners before that—I saw them there with two other men—in consequence of seeing them together we kept them in sight—they went in the direction of New Street

and we lost sight of them for a time—we waited about there and in about half an hour I saw the prisoners come out of Hop Gardens Court, St. Martin's Lane, preceded by a man without a hat—Murphy was between Anthony and Williams—they were hurrying along very sharp—they went towards St. Martin's Court—Pickles and I separated and I went round so as to meet them—I saw Williams first and then Murphy coming down the court towards me—Murphy had a parcel under his coat and I stopped him—this piece of zinc fell on the ground when I pulled his coat open—I searched him at the station and found on him 450 postage stamps, sixteen receipt stamps, 4 1/2 d., some scraps of metal, and a latch key—having taken him to the station, I rejoined Pickles and we went to a house in St. George's Court, St. Ann's Street, Westminster, where we found Williams and Anthony in bed with two girls—I told them I should take them into custody for breaking into a place in St. Martin's Lane—Anthony said he had been at home since 10 o'clock playing dominoes—I am quite sure I saw him come out of Hop Gardens with the others—they were taken to the Vine Street police-station and Williams was searched by Pickles.

Cross-examined. They were 7 or 8 yards from me when I first saw them—there were five of them together on the pavement—I saw Anthony before the others went through the court; when I got round I only met Williams and Murphy—I did not see Anthony then.

THOMAS PICKLES (Detective Officer C). About 1 a.m., on 10th August I was with O'Dea at the corner of Cranbourne Street and St. Martin's Lane—I saw the three prisoners there with two other men, and we followed them into New Street, where we lost them—between 1.35 and 2 o'clock I saw them all three come out of Hop Gardens Court—another man preceded them without a hat—O'Dea went round through Cecil Court, Murphy and Williams turned through St. Martin's Court, and Anthony went on up St. Martin's Lane—I followed him; two men crossed over and spoke to him, and I lost sight of him—I went on to the station and found Murphy there in custody—I went with O'Dea to St. Martin's Lane and made inquiries, and then we went to 1, George Court, Westminster, where we found Anthony and Williams in bed with two women—I told them they would be charged with breaking into a place near St. Martin's Lane—Anthony said he had been at home since 9 o'clock playing at dominoes—he lived at that place—they were taken to the station, and there I searched. Williams and found 150 postage stamps, and a bill-head with Mr. Buck land's name on it, and other things.

Cross-examined. I followed Anthony about 100 yards after he separated from Williams and Murphy; he spoke to two other men, and I dropped back into a doorway and he disappeared round the corner, and when I got to the corner I could not see him.

GEORGE RICHARD BUCKLAND . I live at Streatham, and assist my father as a flatter in Hop Gardens—on Monday evening, 9th August, before leaving business I put some cheques and cash in the safe, leaving about 2s. or 3s. in silver, a few coppers, a large quantity of postage, and a few receipt stamps—I locked the till—I left at 7.30, leaving the place in charge of the house-keeper—when I got there the next morning, I found an entry had been effected, the till opened, and the postage and receipt stamps gone—I missed a parcel of zinc which had been left on the counter and what little money had been left in the till—this (produced) is the zinc—this paper was in the till with the stamps; some of the stamps were in an envelope, and I can identify the envelope.

ELIZABETH BAYLIS . I am housekeeper at 11, Hop Gardens—I was knocked up by the police—the night before that one of the men had reason to work later; about 10.15 he called me, and I went down and locked all up safe and went to bed at 10.30—I heard some one on the stairs about 2 o'clock, and went to the window and called "Police."

SAMUEL KENT (Policeman C 245). I was on duty in Hop Gardens, and on the morning of 10th August, about 1.40, my attention was called to this house—I got over the wall in the court and found the cellar flap open, by which you could gain admission to the house—I went in and found two doors broken open, and some stamps lying about the floor—the plate of the safe had been wrenched, and this hat and handkerchief were lying at the foot of the safe.

WILLIAM BOYLE (Detective Officer E). I went to Mr. Buckland's place on the morning of 10th August, and made an examination—I found an entry had been made.


ANTHONY further PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in September, 1872**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

WILLIAMS also >PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in May, 1874*— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

MURPHY— Six Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-525

525. JOHN LAWS (44) , Feloniously setting fire to a certain dwelling-house, with intent to defraud. Second Count—with intent to injure.

MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.

HENRY PARKER (Police Sergeant K 69). About 2.30 on 27th August I saw the prisoner in Brook Street, Stepney Causeway—he lived at 4, Stepney Causeway, and carried on business there as a marine store dealer—a woman spoke to him as he was passing along and said "Mr. Laws, here!"—he looked and she said "Here, no larks!" and he went on towards his home.

EMMA BBOWN . I live at John Street, Stepney Causeway—I saw the prisoner on 27th August, about 6.40, at his own door—just before 8 o'clock Mrs. Laws and a little girl passed my window—I followed them to the corner and saw Mrs. Laws knock at her own door—she put up her hands and said "Oh, my God, the place is on fire!"—that was just before 8 o'clock.

FREDERICK YOUNG . I am barman at the King's Arms, Brook Street—about 7.20 on 27th August I served the prisoner; he was not drunk.

Cross-examined. By the Licensing Act we are not allowed to serve a person with too much drink—the public-house is about twelve houses from the prisoner's—I had known him before—he had been a constant customer.

JOHN SWALLOW . I live at 2, Stepney Causeway—about 7.30 on 27th August I saw a fire in the basement at the back of the prisoner's house—I sent for the engines.

WILLIAM THOMPSON (Policeman K 310). At 7.30 on 27th August I passed the prisoner's house; it was then shut up and quiet—I saw the prisoner about 10.30 the same night, but I did not speak to him—I subsequently took him to the station and charged him on suspicion of having set fire to his house and premises—on the way to the station he said "How could it be me when I had just arrived from Yarmouth?"

Cross-examined. I was in uniform when I saw him first—I knew him—he had been drinking, but he was not drunk, he looked very fresh, but not drunk.

JOHN ROUSE (Police Inspector K). On 27th August, about eight o'clock I saw No. 4, Stepney Causeway on fire, and at 10.40 I saw the prisoner in front of the house—he went round to the rear of the house, and I followed, and asked him if that was his first appearance at the fire—he said "Yes, I received a telegram at Yarmouth to say that my house was on fire, and I came up immediately"—he said he went to Yarmouth at ten o'clock that morning—he then went round to the front of the house, and I followed, and said "When did you see your wife last"—he said "I hare not seen her for three days," but, in the same breath, he said "I saw her just before I went to Yarmouth in the morning"—I told him that I did not believe his statements, and he must consider himself in custody on suspicion of setting his house on fire—when he was charged I searched him, and found the lease in his pocket, and also a railway insurance policy for 1,000l., and other papers.

Cross-examined. I am the Inspector of the district there—I don't know that the prisoner has been suffering from delirium tremens—he was too ill to be brought before the Magistrate after the first remand.

WILLIAM WITHERS . I am Foreman of the London Salvage. Corps—I attended this fire at 4, Stepney Causeway—it broke out in the back base-ment—where the fire was there was nothing but rags—I should think the value of the stock and furniture was not more than 50l—I am not estimating the stock that was consumed—I should not think much was consumed—I should think, taking the whole of the premises through, including the back premises, which were not touched by the fire, the stock and furniture was worth not more than 200l.

Cross-examined. I said at first that I did not think 80l. was too much for the furniture—I told the Magistrate I had not been through the salvage, but I did not think 80l. too much for the furniture—I said I could form no idea as to the cause of the fire.

WILLIAM NEWCOMBE . I am a clerk in the Phoenix Fire Office—the prisoner's goods were insured there for 600l. including everything—the policy stands in our books as follows:—"John "Laws, 10, Stepney Cause-way, general dealer and rag merchant, on stock-in-trade, 450l., on fixtures, fittings and utensils, 50l., on household goods generally, 80l., on china glass, looking-glasses, pictures, 20l., total,600l."

Cross-examined. The policy has been 14 years in force—it was for goods at 10, Stepney Causeway—notice of removal had been given to the agents, but we did not know anything of it.

HERBERT WILLIAMS . I attended the fire on 27th August at 4, Stepney Causeway—I saw some documents removed from a safe on the first floor by the prisoner's son—one was a parchment document—that was after the fire was extinguished, I should say about 10.30.

Cross-examined. There appeared to be a good stock of furniture in the premises—the son came out of the window and down the ladder into the street, and he spoke then to the superintendent and the inspector—what happened after that I don't know.

JOHN ROUSE (re-called). The prisoner's son was with him when I took him into custody.


Reference Number: t18750920-526

526. EMMA WILSON (20) , Stealing a locket of Henry Jacobs from his person.

MR. GOODMAN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. AUSTIN METCALFE the Defence.

JAMES WHITE . On Sunday night, 5th September, about 11.30, I was with a friend at the Royal Exchange—I wanted to pat him into an omnibus—one came up and he tried to get in, but it was full—there was a crowd—I saw the prisoner there—she put her hand into my pocket twice—I communicated with Sergeant Beale.

Cross-examined. A great many people were trying to get into the omnibus, and were unable to do so.

JOHN BEALE (City Sergeant 69). On Sunday evening, 5th September, between 10 and 11 o'clock, the last witness made a communication to me, and I spoke to Detective Smith—the prisoner was afterwards taken out of an omnibus by Smith, and taken into custody—I took her hand on the way to the Station, and opened it, and found this gold locket (produced) in it.

Cross-examined. I found it in her right hand—She was in Smith's custody, and turned from him—I saw her hand was clenched, and I found the locket in it—Smith was on her right side, and he had her hand; she twisted it from him.

WILLIAM SMITH (City Detective). I was on duty, on Sunday night about 11 o'clock, at the Royal Exchange, and in consequence of a communication from Sergeant Beale I watched the prisoner for some time—she got into an omnibus going towards the East End from Cornhill—I followed and stopped it—I got into the omnibus and said "Come out, I want you"—she said "What for," and she appeared very indignant—I said "I will tell you what for when I get you outside"—she became very violent, and threw something from her left hand—I took her to the station with the assistance of Sergeant Beale—she was very violent—I took her left hand—I had hold of her right hand also—she got that away, and I saw Sergeant Beale take a gold locket from it—she did not say how she became possessed of it, she only used abusive language.

HENRY JACOBS . I am a carpenter, at 2, Umberstone Street, Commercial Road—this gold locket belongs to me—I have not the least doubt about it—I had it in my possession last on Sunday night, 5th September—it was hanging to my watch-chain—I was waiting at the Royal Exchange for an omnibus that night—I got outside, and when I got off I missed the locket—it is worth 25s.

Cross-examined. I have carried it for about four or five years—it has always been on my chain.

GUILTY .**— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. There were three other indictments against the prisoner.

Reference Number: t18750920-527

527. GEORGE GRESHAM (32) , Unlawfully attempting to obtain by means of false pretences 10s. from Elizabeth Schofield, and 10l. 11s. from Catherine Theresa Macnamara Evans, with intent to defraud.

MR. MEAD conducted the Proscution.

ELIZABETH SCHOFIELD . I live at 1, Salmon's Place, Limehouse—in July last my husband was convicted and sentenced to two months' imprisonment which he was serving in Coldbath Fields Prison—on 31st July the prisoner called on me—he said "Are you aware who I am"—I said "No"—he said "I have come from the place where your husband is, are you aware he is walking about starving because he won't eat the food given to him"—I said I was not aware of it—he said "If money is not procured your husband will sink, I can procure nourishment for him"—I said "I have not got it myself, and if I went to his mother I don't expect it would be

more than a couple of shillings"—he said "That would not do, it must be at least 10s."—he said the warders could not do it for nothing as they would run the risk of losing their situations—he said "I should not have called if I had not thought I should get some money, but I won't call any more to-day, I will call on Monday"—he told me my husband had told him that I was to be at the Bank with the baby at 9.30 on the morning he came out—he said he would have to forward the money to rive my husband nourishing food till he came out.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You said that you could get it in to him—you did not tell me that you were a warder of the prisoner—you said they would run the risk of losing their situations.

HARRIET PETERSON . I am the mother of the last witness, and—live in the same house—I remember the prisoner coming, on Saturday 31st July and he promised to come again on the Monday, Bank Holiday—he came on the Tuesday, and I sent for my daughter, she was not at home at the time—I asked the prisoner to sit down—he said he could not come in because his time was very pressing, he was a warder in the House of Correction, having 400 or 500 prisoners under him, and of course he knew the difference between a man and one that was not one, and he wished to act a kindly feeling towards one who he thought was a man, and that was getting-nourishment for him—when I returned with my daughter he was in custody.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You did not ask me for any money—I said "Providing what you say is right, his father would not mind giving' him 30s. or 2l."—you said that much less would do.

HENRY SCHOFIELD . In the beginning of July I was convicted and sentenced to two months' imprisonment for an assault—I was sent to Coldbath Fields—I saw the prisoner there and he told me. he lived at 6, Burdett Road, and was a cloth dealer, I told another prisoner my address in his presence—it is not true that I could not eat the. food while I was in prison, 'or that I was sinking and starving—I did not ask the prisoner to call on my wife and say that she was to meet me with the baby when I came out—I did not give him any authority to go to my wife at all.

ARTHUR CHEATER (Policeman K 291). I was called to take the prisoner into custody—I said "Are you a warder"—he said "Yes, I am a warder at Coldbath Fields Prison"—Mrs. Sohofield came in and I said "Is that the man who represented himself to you as a warder"—she said "Yes, he is the man that called here on Saturday night"—he said "Yes, I am doing that woman a good turn"—I took him to the station.

CATHERINE THERESA MACNAMARA EVANS . I am a widow, and live at 509; Liverpool Road—on the 19th May, the prisoner came to me—I was in bed at the time—I have been in bed until the afternoon for three years—he came into my room—he said "Are you ill ma'am"—I said "You must. know but very little about me, if you are not aware I have been an invalid for three years; I never get up from my bed till the afternoon"—he said "You are a lady from Dublin"—I said "Yes"—he said "You have been advertised many times for"—I said "Indeed, well, it is very odd that I did not see the advertisement as I see so many papers"—he said "You were advertised for in the Times, do you read the Times"—I said "No, but my friends would know the name"—he said "I could not find you, but I went to Dublin and searched for you, and I saw a cousin of yours; I have good news for you; I am a barrister, and I have my carriage outside round the corner waiting for me, you have been left a great property; you have had

a brother in America"—I had a brother in America, and we heard he was dead, but not for a fact—the prisoner said "He has only been dead seven months," and that gave me a great shock—he said "He has left you great property; I have got his diamond ring, and gold watch, and chain, and 500l."—I said "Well, he was a rich man before he went there"—he said "Yes, that is all I have in my possession, there is more property in America"—I said "How did you hear all this"—he said "We have our agents in America, and we correspond with them, but you must get up directly and dress, and I will take you to my office for the Lord Chancellor is waiting for you, and he will be gone 1.40"—I said "I don't go"—he said "Of course you are aware there are fees on the property"—I said "I am well aware there is duty on some"—he said "I require 10l. 11s. before-you can get the property"—I said "I don't give it you"—he said "It is the very last day, it is to be closed at 2 o'clock, you will never be in time"—I said "I will get up and go, where am I to go to"—he said "I will write down the address," and he wrote "Mr. Allen, 42, Ann Street, City," and said it was near the post-office—I said I would be there at 2 o'clock, and be went away—I sent for a lady in Highbury, and Mrs. Drysdale came off directly, and we got a cab and went to the City—we could find no Ann Street—there was Ann Place—I went a second time and could not find it—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody.

HERBERT REEVES . I am a warder at the House of Correction, Coldbath Fields—Schofield was confined there—I have been there sixteen years, and the prisoner was never there as an officer or warder in my time.

ARTHUR CHEATER (re-called). I did not find a gold watch and chain, or a diamond ring, or 500l. on him—he refused his address.

The Prisoner in his defence stated that at first he was charged with attempting to obtain 6l. from Mrs. Allen, and that he proved himself innocent of that, and that the charge, by Mrs. Schofield had been got up by the officers.

GUILTY .**— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-528

528. GEORGE BISHOP (22) , Robbery with violence on William Fairn, and stealing his watch.

The prosecutor having gone to sea no evidence was offered.


OLD COURT.—Saturday, September 25th, 1875.

Before Mr. Justice Field.

Reference Number: t18750920-529

529. LOUIS MOORE (44), JAMES POWER (23), and ROBERT READ (17), were indicted for a rape on Honorah Foley.

MESSRS. BESLEY and GILL conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU

WILLIAMS defended Moore.


For the case of Walter Thompson Hunt, tried this day, see Surrey cases.

THIRD COURT.—Saturday, September, 25th, 1875.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-530

530. PATRICK WOOD (32) , Unlawfully obtaining from William Page, by means of false pretences, 125l. with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. W. SLEIGH and MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MESSRS BESLEY and MOODY the Defence.

ALFRED LOVE . I am messenger in the liquidation department of the Court of Bankruptcy, Lincoln's Inn Fields—I produce a petition, dated

24th July, 1875, and an affidavit supporting it in the matter of Patrick Wood, a liquidating debtor—the amount of debts endorsed at the back of the petition is 5,500l.—he is described as "Patrick Wood, trading as Wood Brothers, 5, Finsbury Chambers, London Wall, and 226, Queen's Road, Dalston, financial agent and scrivener"—the proceedings are not completed—there has been nothing beyond the meeting.

Cross-examined. The list of creditors contains the name of William Page, 16, Abchurch Lane, for 117l. 5s.—the date of the filing of that list is 4th August, and the first meeting of creditors was on the 19th, but nothing followed; the proceedings fell through—there is an order of the Court to restrain a person named Osmond from levying execution; that is dated 24th July—there is no order to restrain Page from selling—I don't know that Page's men were in possession of the property from 22nd June till 27th August—the receiver is Mr. Ernest Foreman, of Cheapside, accountant.

ERNEST ROBINSON . I am an officer of the Court of Bankruptcy and produce the proceedings in the matter of Patrick Wood—there are no accounts filed, simply a bankrupt.

Cross-examined. The adjudication was on 18th. September, this day week.

Re-examined. The act of bankruptcy was filing his petition for liquidation.

ALFRED HENRY HOLMES . I am clerk to Mr. Devonshire, solicitor, of Frederick Place, Old Jewry—I produce a judgment, dated 12th March, 1875, against Patrick Wood for 148l. 10s.; it has not been satisfied; about 130l. is due upon it.

Cross-examined. I said about 120l. at the police-court, but I have been through the figures and I find it slightly in excess of that the judgment was on a promissory note—we were entitled to judgment in twelve days—Use, was the amount of the note, and there was 3l. 8s. costs—after we got judgment he made an arrangement to pay it off under the same terms as the promissory note was to be paid off, 2l. a week—he was to have done so, but as a fact he did not—after the judgment 13l. 5s. was paid off; Mr. Gray paid 2l. and he paid 7l. 5s., and some one else paid 4l.—he was individually liable on the promissory note—originally it was a loan by the Protector Company to Gray and Wood and one or two others, Wood being the borrower—I think the loan was made in 1869, the promissory note is June, 1874—proceedings had been taken against him previously and it stood over a long time and ultimately he gave a promissory note—it is a very old matter—I think the debt was originally 150l.

GEORGE WALKER . I am a solicitor, at 52, Fitzroy Street, Fitzroy Square—I produce a judgment against Patrick Wood, dated 21st July, 1875—on 21st June I saw the defendant and had a conversation with him and we came to the conclusion that he owed Mr. Osmond 780l.;, I discussed the matter with him then and several times previously—I can't say how long the debt has been running, only, from what I have been told—I took a statement with me that Mr. Osmond had given me and he said it was correct—I think it was about May, 1874, that the first indebtedness was and the amount was 200l. and at the end of last year his indebtedness to Osmond was very nearly 800l.

Cross-examined. I believe Mr. Osmond is here—I had a notice served upon me restraining further action on the judgment—Mr. Osmond has been a coffee-house keeper; he lends money to make investments, not on bills of sale to my knowledge—he has lent money on an agreement to Mr. Wood; I

don't know what was the arrangement between them—I know nothing except what my client has told me.

HENRY BARRY HYDE . I am a bill broker, at George Street, Mansion House—in May last the prisoner owed me 186l., and he owes it me now.

Cross-examined. I was not examined at the police-court—I had notice of the meeting of creditors on the liquidation proceedings—these transactions have been going on since 1873 between us—I know his brother—I often saw him with reference to them—Patrick Wood is my debtor, and William Wood also—he was security—the money was not to be invested by them for my benefit—the 186l. is a portion of a sum of 300l.—they diminished the debt down to 186l.

Re-examined. Patrick Wood alone was the borrower—he said he traded as Wood Brothers, and there was no other person in partnership with him.

GEORGE OSMOND . I live at Downshire Hill, Hampstead—I have known the defendant about twelve months as a financial agent—he owed me about 800l. in May, and does now.

Cross-examined. It was a trifle more—it began in May, 1874—I lend money on bills of sale through Mr. Walter Feast, of Coleman Street—I had notice of the liquidation proceedings—I was restrained by the Court of Bankruptcy.

Re-examined. I know that part of the defendant's business was lending money on bills of sale.

EDWARD FRESTON BUNTON . I am a solicitor and notary public, at 12, Abchurch Lane—the signature to this declaration (produced) and the initials in the margin are mine—the initials are for additions and alterations—there are two initials there.

Cross-examined. A notary public is a person who holds a faculty from the Court of Faculty, Doctor's Commons, for the purpose of doing certain acts—I have authority to administer oaths in matters going abroad, and extra judicial matters not pending in Court—I have a right to take a declaration—I am not aware that a declaration is the same as an oath; the declaration was introduced to abolish the oath—12, Abchurch Lane, is not the place where Mr. Hall carries on his business; I believe it is 16—I charge for taking a declaration—we have not a regular account with Mr. Hall—I am not constantly signing declarations for him, not more frequently than for others—I have heard in the course of this inquiry that Mr. Page's son is a clerk of Mr. Hall's—I did not know him previously—I can't undertake to swear to the declarant in this case, I only see them for so short a time—the declaration appears to be in two or three different hand-1 writings—if there was an exhibit I should initial it—the rule is to have the declaration subscribed in the office, and they are brought in to me to make the declaration—I neither read the exhibit nor the declaration—the whole thing occupied a minute or less.

THOMAS WILLIAM PARKER . I am manager to Mary Ann Peachy, trading as George Peachy, of 73, Bishopsgate Street, pianoforte manufacturer—on 4th or 5th January, 1875, the defendant hired a piano from us, No. 2,651—it was sent to 226, Queen's Road, Dalston, by his order—it has never been returned.

Cross-examined. I saw the piano go into the van—I am always there to see the goods go away—I have known Mr. Wood four or five years, and we have had two transactions with him, or it may have been three—I can't tell you how much he has paid—they have been casually on hire—he had

a piano of his own; I brought it from his house when I took over one before. this, and he afterwards sent a cart for it—he paid 10l. for the hire of the last one—our transaction with him was not on the three years' system—he paid 10l., and if he had bought it we should have allowed him 5l. off the purchase-money—he paid 5l. a quarter for the hire—one of our pianos would fetch about 16l. or 17l. at a forced sale under the sheriff's hammer; it would depend on the style.

JOHN SAMUEL PAGE . I am the son of Mr. William Page, the prosecutor, and I am articled clerk to Mr. Richard Hall, solicitor, 16, Abchurch Lane—I saw the defendant sign this declaration—at the time he signed it all of it was written, it is in three different handwritings.—the first two letters are in the handwriting of Mr. Utton who introduced him—in the next line he put in his own name, Patrick Wood, and also his address 226, Queen's Road, Dalston, and then he put 50 a little lower down and signed it—the last part is in my handwriting—there is some one's writing that I don't know—it was on 7th May that he signed it-after he. had" signed it I sent him to. the notary to declare it—the first time he came back with the signature of Mr. Bunton and I sent him back a second time to have his own name initiated and the part with reference to his being a trader, that was in consequence of it being in a different handwriting—this is the inventory referred to in the declaration, it is' in the prisoner's writing and was complete as it is now when he took the document to declare—I said it was rather strange his name being Wood that he had nothing to do with Wood Brothers—he said he was then only their managing-clerk at a salary of 350l. a year—when he said that I said "I must have you declare that" and I inserted it, that is the reason of my hand writing being in—that was done before it was first declared'—I read the declaration over to him—he read it himself and put the names in and then I read it over to him—I gave him 35l. 10s.—on the declaration being made this bill of sale (produced) was executed—I' held 78l. 5s. to pay. a bill of sale of Felton's and I held 11l. 5s. to pay a quarter's rent of the house at Dalston due on 25th March—I handed him over the balance at the London and Westminster Bank where I. cashed the cheque—my father gave me this cheque' for 125l. (produced)—the endorsement on the back is "Patrick Wood"—he endorsed it at our office at the time of the settlement and I went with him and cashed the cheque and gave him the balance—the defendant paid the 11l. 5s. for the rent—I did not return him the 11l. 5s.—he told me to keep it till the landlord asked him for it—I wanted to pay it at once—he said "I would rather you did not until you are asked for it'"—I received 3l. from Mr. Wood in part payment of the first instalment and I also received a cheque from Mr. McDermott for 12l. 10s.

Cross-examined. I have been articled to Mr. Hall Dearly three years—I should think my father has been lending money on bills, of sale five years—when I left school I acted as clerk for my father a short time, but I had not been there long before I was articled—I have always taken part in these transactions with bills of sale since I have been with Mr. Hall, with regard to declarations, and so forth—I should think we have had four or five transactions in the last six months—it may have been seven or eight between Christmas and Midsummer, I can't recollect—I won't swear it was not as many as sixteen registered besides the unregistered, because I don't recollect—I should not think it was so many as twenty—I did not get a penny for my trouble—I did not get 10s. given to me—I have

known Utton about five years—he has introduced some persons to my father—I don't know that he got 5l. in this case; I should think it was very likely that he did, he wants paying for his trouble—Utton introduced the prisoner to my father two or three days before the 7th May—he fold me there was a bill of sale from Felton's, and that the prisoner wanted more money—I went down to see the furniture myself on the 5th or 6th May—I went all over the house—I said it was good enough-for 150l.—my father would not advance more money than the goods. were worth—Utton did not tell me that the prisoner was a financial' agent—I did not see Felton's bill of sale until we bad a notice to produce it—I had seen the outside of course, but never looked inside—I did not know that the prisoner was there described as a financial agent—I never saw a declaration in Felton's case—Utton went over the furniture with: me—I did not make out an account of the way we disposed of the 150l.—I don't know whether Mr. Felton is here—I subpoenaed him, and he-said he should be—we don't require the applicant in these bill of sale transactions to fill up forms, we always have a declaration—if there is a previous, charge we have it expressed on the face of the declaration—we always ask whether there is any previous bill of sale—we have had lots of instances where people have come and asked for money on a second bill of sale, and have not disclosed the former one—we had one the other day with sevens bills of sale, so that ours was perfectly worthless—I should say we have had ten during the time I have had to do with them—we prosecuted one man under a false declaration—I don't recollect that we have prosecuted anyone where—there has been a previous bill of sale—I swear that I gave the prisoner 35l. 10s—no one else was present, we went to the bank together—after the declaration was made and the bill of sale executed I got a cheque from my father for 125l.—I was left to settle up accounts with the prisoner, how much he should take, and how much I should retain—that was the object of his going to the bank—all our cheques are made payable to order—the prisoner endorsed it in my presence at the office—I did not give him the cheque exactly, only to put his name on it—I put it before him to sign it—25l. was not deducted from the loan—he would have to pay back 150l. before his goods were free—37l. 10s. was to be paid the first month—we have had 3l., 12l. 10s. and 11l. 5s.—Mrs. Wood paid 2l. on account of possession money on 22nd July—we put a person in possession on 22nd June—I think about 10l. or 12l. was paid altogether for possession money—we could have sold the furniture between 22nd June and 24th July, but we should have considered that we were very arbitrary if we—his wife came and begged us not to remove the things—I know Mr. Foreman, the receiver—I saw Mr. Foreman after the prisoner was first remanded—I did not say to him that my father was willing to withdraw the prosecution if he could get possession of the furniture again—I will swear I did not, because I should not have done that without authority from Mr. Hall, and I never had it—I will swear I never referred to with-drawing the prosecution to Mr. Foreman—we were told we had better go and take the furniture, and I said to Mr. Foreman "That is not a fact is it, you will not give us our furniture will you?" and he said "Certainly not"—I said "If you will give us the furniture we will take it," which they said I ought to have done at first, and Mr. Foreman would not give it up.

Re-examined. At the Mansion House Mr. Gold, on the part of the prisoner,

said "There is nothing to prevent them from taking the furniture now," and I went to Mr. Foreman, but he would not give it up.

WILLIAM PAGE . I am a fanner at Eastcote, Middlesex—I occasionally lend money on bills of sale—some few days before 7th May the defendant was introduced to me by Mr. Utton, and he asked me to lend him 150., and I said if it was right I would lend it to him—on the second interview he said he wanted 125l. clear, and he offered me a bill of sale for 150l.—it was his own proposition, and that would include all expenses—I had some conversation with him at different times, and the substance of the conversa-tion was drawn up in writing in the form of the declaration—I was induced to part with my money from the representations that he made, and which are contained in the declaration—the declaration was signed before the money was advanced, and the statements in it induced me to part with my money—I should not have lent him the money if I had believed any one of those statements was not true—he asked me not to register the bill of sale because he was not a trader, and I did not do so.

Cross-examined. I had nothing to do with getting sureties; my son did that—I had possession of the furniture through my man, I believe, on. The 22nd June, and he remained in possession till 26th August—we withdrew voluntarily, but Mr. Foreman was in also—when I found I had no title to the goods I applied for a summons against the prisoner—I had the con-versation with the prisoner in Mr. Hall's office—Mr. Utton was present—that was a day or two before 7th May, and before my son went down to see the property—I desire what is stated verbally to be put in the declara-tion—my son reported that the furniture was not good enough to lend 150l. on clear, and I advanced 125l."—his report influenced me not to. lend 150l.—from what Mr. Wood said I was induced to lend the 125l.—I should not have lent him that if my son had said that it was not worth that sum, but I lent the money on Mr. Wood's representations—I was influenced by both his representations and my son's—I did not complain of the criminal offence on 24th July, because I did as I was advised by Mr. Hall—I should have lent the money if there had been no sureties—I take them for what they are worth—Utton did not tell me about the sureties; I have had sureties before—occasionally I have found that persons (have got money from me on bills of sale without disclosing previous bills of sale; I have had two or three cases of that kind—I should say not ten, but I won't swear that—I have never prosecuted anybody for that fraud to my knowledge—I occasionally make my cheques payable to the order of the person to whom I lend the money, not always—I don't write all my cheques to order—I gave my son the cheque, and left it entirely to him—I knew the cheque would have to be signed by the prisoner before the money would be paid, and so did he; I told him so.

By THE COURT. The piano was numbered in the inventory, and was identified by Peachy.

GUILTY .— Four Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-531

531. BENJAMIN WOODCOCK (25), and ROBERT HUBBARD (17) , Stealing two cows, the property of Benjamin Smith. Second Count.—Receiving the same.

MR. MOODY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. STRAIGHT defended Woodcock.

GEORGE MURRELL (Detective Officer K). On the 1st September I met Woodcock at the Rose Wharf, Blackwall, at about 11 o'clock in the forenoon—I told him I was an officer and should take him into custody for being concerned with others in stealing two cows on the 6th of last May—he said "I think they are getting it up for me"—I told him he would have to go to Plaistow, where we had another man locked up—I took him there and charged him again—he said nothing at all—I had taken Hubbard on the 27th August—I had been on the look-out for Woodcock ever since then—when I took Hubbard and told him the charge, he said "All right, I know nothing about it. I expected this. I should not have done so if it had not been for little Ben Woodcock who sent me. to fetch the cows, and told me to tell Mark Gibbard that Mr. Smith had sent me for them. They were sold to go over the water. I went down to fetch them. Mark Gibbard would not let me have them that night until the next morning between 4 and 5 o'clock, when I brought them up to the World's End public-house, Stepney Green, and there little Ben took them from me and told me he would see me to-morrow night. He didn't see me till Saturday night; he then gave me 3l., and I am sorry for Saul that he bought them."

Hubbard. When he asked me who it was that sent for the cows, I told him "A man named 'Little Ben.' I didn't know his other name." Witness, I am sure he said "Woodcock;" and he said "He can always be found at the Black Swan, Bow."

Cross-examined. I. was at the police-court, and heard the whole of the case—I heard Hubbard say (pointing to Woodcock) "This is not the man to whom I delivered the cows;" but that was after—I had not had him in my charge a minute before he told me all about it—I was with him about two hours—I didn't press him; he told me voluntarily—I asked him a good many times respecting Woodcock:—I didn't know who he was at the time—I said before the Magistrate that I didn't know who little Benny was.

He-examined. I was looking for Hubbard from May until I took him—I had not been looking for Woodcock until I took Hubbard—it was in consequence of what Hubbard said that I looked for him.

MARK GIBBARD . I am a marsh-looker to Mr. Benjamin Smith, and in charge of a place down at Plaistow—I remember Hubbard coming to me on the 6th May last, and said he had come after two cows belonging to Mr. Smith that he had brought about a week before, that Mr. Smith had sold them to go over the water for some gentleman, and he was going to take them over—I delivered the cows to him the next morning—they were brought back to me on the marsh by Mr. Herbert Smith.

Cross-examined. I was not at home, and he put them in the field—I saw the cows in the field; a little boy helped to put them in—I cannot say whether Mr. Smith has ever seen the cows in my presence—I delivered the cows out of the field—they were away about a fortnight.

FREDERICK SAUL . I am a salesman, at St. Mark's Street, Whitechapel—I remember, on the 7th May last, buying two cows of a man named Kelp, and I sold them again the same day to Mr. Henry Wilson, cow-keeper, of Tottenham, for 22l.; I gave 18l. for them—we never have any receipts—I had not known Kelp before—I bought them in a shed at a public-house—it was was either 22l. or a bull and 10l.—on the Monday following it was that Mr. Wilson declined to pay me.

GEORGE HENRY WILSON . I reside at Tottenham, and am a cow-keeper—I have no slaughter-house or anything of that kind, I do no killing—I par.

chased the cows from Saul for an exchange, a bull and 10l.—they were in a field—I refused to pay for them, and communicated with. Taylor the detective.

HERBERT SMITH . I manage the business for my relative, Benjamin Smith—on 5th May, I saw the cows purchased, and I paid for them, and gave directions for them to be taken down to Gibbard—they came to our place first to be milked—I went down to Plaistow afterwards, and saw they had been taken away, and I afterwards went with Mr. Taylor to Mr. Wilson's place, where I saw the two cows—I had not given any directions to Hubbard, to go down and ask for them to be given up as they were going over the water—Benjamin Smith was in town at that time—he takes no part in the business.

BENJAMIN SMITH . I am the prosecutor in this case—I never authorized Hubbard to go down to Gibbard, and ask for the cows to be given up to him as they were going to be sent over the water—I know nothing about it.

JOHN HUBBARD . I live at 21, Cockley Street, Stepney Green, and am a potman—I am a brother of the prisoner Hubbard—I remember seeing Woodcock, in Whitechapel Market, about six weeks or two months ago, when I had some conversation with him about my brother Robert—I asked him if he had seen my brother, and he said "Do you know that the detect are after him?"—I said "I am quite aware of that"—then he said "I gave your brother 3l. out of what we got for the cows; if Bob is taken he won't round on us; he will stand the racket of the lot"—he did'nt say how the cows were brought from Tottenham, or who brought them.

Cross-examined. That conversation took place about six weeks, or two months ago—about the end of July—I have seen him in the market before that, but have not had-anything to say to him—I am quite sure he said "I gave your brother 3l. out of what we got for the cows"—I didn't say "Out of the sale of the two heifers" before the Magistrate; "two cows" I believe is what I said. (The witnesses depositions being referred stated): "He told me had given my brother 3l. out of the sale of 'the two heifers which were sold at Tottenham.") It was heifers he said before the Magistrate—as these cows were stolen on the Thursday, I bad information on the Saturday, and then I enquired into the case—that would be on the 8th May, I believe—I knew my brother had gone away, but did not know where he had gone to—it is over two months ago since I first saw the police in the matter—I saw the first constable about it in May—he came from Ilford, and was in plain clothes—there were three or four detectives—there was Detective Smith—I didn't make Detective Murrell's acquaintance until my brother was in custody; not to tell him anything about the case.

Hubbard. My brother came last Saturday to see me and he told me that the detective told, him to say what he has said, and that if he came and swore against Woodcock that it would get me off. Witness. I did see him last Saturday, but on my oath I never said a word of that kind.

Hubbard's Defence. I wish to say that a man who sent me for the cows came to me and I happened to be the only one there on Thursday. When he first came it was latish in the evening, between 6 and 7 o'clock, and he asked me to go for two cows for Mr. Smith at East End Marshes and bring them to him and he would pay me for the trouble. I went down at night and could not get them. I went down the next morning, between 4 and 5 o'clock, and brought them to a gentleman on Stepney Green and delivered them to a man named Benjamin Woodcock. That is all I know. The prisoner here is not the man.

FREDERICK SAUL (re-called). I do not know who Kelp is, he gave me his address somewhere at Bow, but I could not find him.


Reference Number: t18750920-532

532. JOHN HOLLICK (39), and THOMAS RYAN (22) , Stealing 9 gallons of ale and one cask, the property of Messrs. Ind, Coope & Co. Second Count—Receiving the same.

MR. DOUGLAS conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE HORN . I live at No. 1, Philpot Place, Ilford, and am a water-man—I was in the High Street, Barking, on Thursday night, the 26th August, at about 10 o'clock—I went down on the Quay, where I saw the two prisoners lift a cask off Glenny's Wharf on to a barge—the two lifted it, one on each side to the barge, from there on to the other quay, to another wharf—I was close at the side—I stood there for an instant while they lifted it on to the other wharf and when they got it on to the other wharf I went and told a policeman what I had seen and the policeman came down the street and went aboard and took the two men—the prisoners are the two he brought out of the cabin—before the cask was taken on to the last barge I saw they had a half gallon can on the wharf ready to receive half a gallon out of the cask and I believe they did—I saw them knock the cork in on the second wharf—they took the can and then the cask afterwards on to the barge—I saw them come out of the barge before the last time and come up the street and back again to the Blue Anchor—Ryan is not one of the men who was with Hollick when the cask was lifted—I have never seen him, except when he was brought out of the barge—it was about 9.20.

JOHN PHILLIPS (Policeman K 126). I received some information from the last witness in consequence of which I went to the Town Quay, Barking, to look after Hollick, Ryan, and two other men—I saw them in the Blue Anchor public-house, which is close on the Town Quay—about 20 yards from Glenny's Wharf I saw Ryan and two other men come out of the public-house and go on board a manure barge in the Town Quay—about two minutes afterwards Hollick came out and went on the manure barge and all went down in the cabin—I went for another constable and, while I was coming back with him the two prisoners and another man passed us in the street—Hollick spoke some bye-word to me—this was close on 11 o'clock—I stood there for some ten or fifteen minutes and the two prisoners and the other man came back again and went on board the manure barge—I then, some minutes afterwards, went on board the barge in company of the other constable—I jumped off the Town Quay on to the barge and away one man went a good run—I believe that was the man in charge of the barge—I don't know him—I went down in the cabin and found the two prisoners there and this can about three parts full of ale (produced) and on the seat in the cabin I found a cask of beer with this (produced) knocked in the hole and dripping very fast at the time—it is a piece of wood with some paper round it, a substitute for a tap—they appealed to have been drinking beer; they appeared to be sober—I took them into custody and told them they were charged with stealing that cask of ale from the wharf—Hollick said he had come with the others to have a drop of beer—Ryan said he had come there to have a night's sleep—I took them to the station.

HENRY COLLIER . I live at Heath Street, Barking, and am foreman of Glenny's wharf, Town Quay, Barking—on the night in question I went on the quay and saw a 9-gallon cask of beer, which I identified as a cask of beer consigned there by Ind & Coope—on counting the casks afterwards

I found one missing—neither of the prisoners are in the employment of Glenny—I know Hollick.

EUSEBIUS SHAW PULLEN . I am foreman in the employ of Messrs. Ind, Coope & Co.—I can identify the cask in question as belonging to them by their brand and mark.

Hollick's Defence. I am innocent of taking it Ryan's Defence. On the morning of the 26th August I walked up to Barking with the intention of getting work. When I got there I met the first witness Horn, and told him I had walked up, and then I found Hollick, and we went into the Anchor and had two or three pints of beer, and then we went up the street to get some grub and found the shops shut, and we went on the barge with the intention of sleeping.

HOLLICK GUILTYRecommended to mercy — Three Months' Imprisonment.


Reference Number: t18750920-533

533. EMMA MOORE (28) , Stealing two rings, a coral, a handkerchief, and other articles of John McCall, her master.

MR. DOUGLAS METCALFE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. C. MATHEWS

the Defence.

AGNES MCCALL . I live with my husband at Wood Street, Walthamstow the prisoner entered our service on 8th March—I left home on 1st June and returned on the 11th when I missed some pillow cases, table cloths, and various linen articles, after which I begin to miss all sorts of things—on 22nd July I missed a gold brooch worth 10l. from my ward-robe, also two rings and property altogether value 20l.—on 18th August a detective came and took me to Mr. Laws', a pawnbroker at Stoke Newington, where he showed me my brooch (produced) and this is my handkerchief; I have no doubt of them—I did not authorise anybody to take them to. the pawnbroker's.

Cross-examined. The prisoner left my service on 29th June—she was not quite cook enough for me and I gave her a very good character to her next place, Mrs. Kennesse, a German lady of Upper Clapton.

MATTHEW NEWMAN (Detective Officer). On 18th August I received some information and took Mrs. McCall to Mr. Laws' at Stoke Newington, who produced the brooch which she identified at once—Mr. Laws gave me some information and on 20th August I met the prisoner in Lea Bridge Road and took her in custody with another young woman, her sister, I believe—I charged the prisoner with offering a brooch for sale at the pawnbroker's, not with stealing it—she said that she knew nothing of it—I took her to the station and placed her and her sister with three more women dressed similarly and she was identified by the pawnbroker and charged by Mrs. McCall—on the 24th I went to Mrs. Kennesses' at Upper Clapton—the servant who opened the door handed me a key with which I opened a box at the bottom of which I found this handkerchief which Mrs. McCall identified—her new mistress went with me to the box—the prisoner was then in prison—she had said nothing about a box—the servant who gave me the key is not here.

Cross-examined. I was not present when the pawnbroker picked out the. prisoner.

ARNOLD EDWIN LAW . I am a pawnbroker, of High Street, Stoke Newington—on 2nd June, between 10 and 11 a.m., the prisoner came and asked for 8s. on this brooch—I asked her whether it was gold, she

said that it was plated—I think she said that it belonged to her brother—I asked her if she could fetch him, she said "Yes"—I said "I will keep the brooch while you go"—I kept it, and never saw her again till I identified her at the station—I picked her out from five others.

Cross-examined. I identified her on 17th August, I believe—I had a telegram asking me to go to the station—it was last Friday month, I believe—I did not make a memorandum—I know that she came on 23rd June, because I made a memorandum at the station; I said at the station that she looked very different to when I first saw her; that I thought she was the person who pledged the brooch, but that dress made a great deal of difference, and that she was very much altered—I have fixed 17th August as the day I saw her at the station, it would surprise me to hear that she was not in custody till the 20th.

Re-examined. Irrespective of dates, I have no doubt whatever that she is the woman who brought the brooch to my shop.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-534

534. WILLIAM BROWN (24) , Unlawfully obtaining 6 1/2 tons of bones, a mare, and a set of harness, of Albert Augustus Pollard, by false pretences.

MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLEY the Defence.


Reference Number: t18750920-535

535. WILLIAM DAY (26) , Stealing a watch of James Matthew Aylott, from his person.

MR. GRIFFITHS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. HARRIS the Defence.

JAMES MATTHEW AYLOTT . I am a cheesemonger, at 28, Poland Street, Oxford Street—on 15th August, about 8. o'clock p.m., I was at Harrow Green, Leytonstone—I had a little boy in my arms, and was about to enter a tramway car—I had a Geneva watch in my pocket at. that time attached to this chain—I saw the prisoner between me and the car, as I was about to enter, and a woman with a child in her arms was standing on my left side—my hat was knocked off from behind, and I directly felt my watch leave my pocket—the prisoner was as close as he could possibly be to. me then—I turned round and caught hold of him as he tried, to leave the crowd—I saw a constable close behind me, and I gave him in charge—as he was taking him to the station, the woman with the child came to me and said "For God's sake don't prosecute him"—the prisoner could hear that, as we were close behind—she repeated that two or three times, and said "If you don't prosecute him I will get your watch back, he has. not got it"—I said "No, he has not, but he stole it" she went to the pavement and. brought, the watch back to me—the ring which attached it the chain was off then—I charged the prisoner at the station with stealing the watch—he pretended to cry and made a great fuss, and asked me to let him off—I told the policeman about the woman returning the watch, and went out in search of her but could not find her, and when I went back to the station, I said to the prisoner "Is that woman your wife?"—he said "No"—I said "I suppose it is a woman you are living with?"—and he said "Yes."

Gross-examined. She was not there then—my hat. was knocked off from behind, and I seized the prisoner when I felt my watch go—when I was. going to give him in charge my hat was brought back.

GEORGE BLANKS (Policeman N 592). On 15th August, I noticed a large crowd following up the tram car, and I heard Mr. Aylott say "My watch

is gone"—I was then close to the prisoner, and Mr. Aylott had hold of his arm, and said "I charge this man with stealing my watch"—I took him into custody, we had a scuffle, and he tried to get away—he said "Don't lock me up, I hare not got his watch"—I took him to the station, and Mr. Aylott said there "I have got my watch, a woman gave it to me."

GUILTY .—He further PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in September, 1871*— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-536

536. WILLIAM ELLIOTT (32) , Stealing 15l. of Thomas Till, his master.

MR. HORACE AVOBY conducted the Prosecution.

SARAH HAYWOOD . I am in the employ of Mr. Thomas Till a baker, at 1, Clifton Place, Lewisham—the prisoner was employed there as a baker—on 21st July I locked up the shop at 9.30, leaving the money in a cash-box in a drawer in the counting-house—I locked the door and left the key on the top of the counting-house, where the books are kept—I let the prisoner in about 11o'clook—when I came down next morning I found the shop door unfastened, and the prisoner had gone—I found marks of flour in different parts of the shop-and the counting-house, and the books were all in confusion—the counting-house window was shut, but not fastened; it had not been fastened the previous night—the shop door was unfastened, but not open—all the money, 15l. was taken—the drawer' vas still looked, and the key where I had left it—the prisoner was employed in the bake-house during the night—he could get into the shop from there, and the counting-house is in the shop—I did not see him. again till. I saw him at the police-court—he had no business in the counting-house.

THOMAS TILL . I am a baker at Lewisham—the prisoner was in my employment on 21st July—the money which has been spoken of was mine—the prisoner was not at his work on the morning of the 22nd—I saw him three weeks, afterwards in custody—information was given to the police.

JOHN NEARN (Policeman RR 28) I apprehended the: prisoner in High Street, Woolwich, on 16th Augnst—I saw him, go into a public-house, and I touched him on the shoulder and said "Your name, is—William Elliott?"—he said "No, it is: not"—I said "It. is and I shall take you into custody for robbing your roaster at Lewisham"—he said "You; have made a. mistake this time"—I took him to the station, where, he; was charged by his master—he made no reply.


He further PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in April, 1865, at this Court**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-537

537. CHARLES EDWARDS (44) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Edward West, and stealing twenty cigars and 6l. 10s., his property.

MR. HORACE AVORY. conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD WEST . I keep the Three Crowns public-house at North Woolwich—the prisoner was in my house on the 24th August till 12.20, when I had occasion to eject him—he 'would not leave, but laid' himself on the ground—I took, him' by the collar and turned him out—he had his coat on then—I sat him on the doorstep and fastened the door—next morning I came down about 7.15—I found the front door open, the bar ransacked and

the contents of the till taken, and also two cupboards broken open that were in the bar parlour—two table knives had been used in breaking the locks of the cupboards—on going into the kitchen I observed a coat on the corner of the table, which was not there when I went to bed—I recognised that coat as the one Edwards wore when I put him. out of the house.

JAMES PARKHURST (Policeman K 42). On 25th August I passed the prosecutor's house, about 2.30, and saw the prisoner leaning up against the fence, between Mr. West's house and the railway station—he had neither coat nor hat on—I asked him where his coat and hat were, and he said "At home"—I said it was nearly time he was at home himself—about 9 o'clock I received information that a burglary had been committed—I went in search of the prisoner, and apprehended him in the Barking Road,. about 3.30 in the afternoon—a coat was afterwards given into my possession—I showed it to the prisoner, and he owned it as his—he said nothing to the charge.

WILLIAM PAYNE . On the 25th August I passed Mr. West's house, about 1 o'clock a.m.—I saw the prisoner opposite the house—he had a coat on then—Mr. West's house was then closed and in darkness.

WILLIAM HORSNELL . I live at North Woolwich, and am a bootmaker—on 25th August I was passing Mr. West's house, about 12.40—I saw the prisoner sitting on the doorstep outside the house—he had a coat on, but no cap—the house was closed and dark—the prisoner was drunk, fast asleep—I lifted his head up to see who it was, and could not get any life in him.

Prisoners Defence. I was very drunk indeed, and sitting outside his door, and whether my coat was off or on I could not say—I know no more about it.


Reference Number: t18750920-538

538. MARGARET HAWKINS (25) , Stealing a work-box and other articles of Henry Coe.

MR. MOODY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. WILDEY WEIGHT the Defend.

MARY ANN COB . I live at No. 8, York Terrace, Charlton—I took lodgings in the prisoner's house on the 30th March (No. 5, York Terrace)—I was not able to go directly I took the lodgings—I was in bed for three weeks—I remained in the lodgings until the 1st May—when I was leaving I missed four pinafores, a toilet cover, a night dress, a work-box and its contents, a silver brooch, and a back comb, and a pair of drawers, &o.—I have seen the articles produced by the different pawnbrokers in this case, and they are part of those I missed—I told the prisoner what I had lost and mentioned the work-box particularly—she said she knew nothing about it—that would be the 3rd May—the work-box has not been found.

Cross-examined. I took the lodgings myself—Mrs. Hawkins, the prisoner came to my bedside—Mrs. Atkins, my—mother, sent for her—Mrs. Atkins is dead—she did not tell me that the prisoner had told her if I took the apartments I must be very careful because previous lodgers had missed something, and she was afraid there were some dishonest persons about the place, or that I must keep them locked—my sister, Eliza Atkins, had the key of the lodgings between the time I took them and the time I went in, and had access to the rooms—my sister had access to the room and no one else—she would not take my things—they were taken in on the 30th March; I was then ill in bed at 4, York Terrace—they were moved in by a van, and

persons were employed to carry the things in—I belive the only things I have been able to identify as being in the prisoner's possession are the two towels, one is marked and the other I have a fellow to—the mark (is an iron mould in the corner—it had not "Coe" on it—there is the iron mould (exhibiting the towel)—that is the only means by which I identify it—the other towel is of the same size—I last saw them on the 25th March in my drawer—I made the iron-mould—I never saw them again until I saw them in either the pawnbroker's or detective's custody—I have known the prisoner many years—I don't know that her character has been that of an upright honourable woman—I know nothing against her.

Re-examined. She did not tell me, when I complained, that things had been previously missed—I put the towels in my drawer myself on the 25th March in the same room I occupied—I was not in the room at the time the things were moved into the prisoner's house—I have also identified a bodice and the comb.

By MR. WRIGHT. I did not say when the charge was made against the prisoner "All I want is to get my goods, and I shall not press the charge," nothing of the kind.

HARRIET JONAS . I lived at 2, Lambert Terrace, Charlton, and am a widow—I remember going to Mr. Thorp's, a pawnbroker, on the 1st April—I took a parcel for Mrs. Hawkins, and she told me to get 3s.—I could only get 2s. 6d.—I saw the parcel opened, and saw a petticoat and a white article—the parcel was done up in an apron—I did not see any towels in it—I sent the 2s. 6d. by my little girl in a bit of paper—I pledged them in the name of Smith, which name I always use as the name of Jonas is conspicuous—Mrs. Hawkins took them off the parlour table where she lives, No. 5.

THOMAS KAVANAGH . I was in the service of Mr. Thorp, a pawnbroker, of Woolwich, I produce a parcel pledged there on the 1st April, in the name of Harriet Smith, for 2s. 6d., it contains a flannel petticoat, apron, and other things.

KATTY ELIZA JONAS . I am the daughter of Harriet Jonas, I remember going one day into Mrs. Hawkins' house to see the baby, I think it was the 14th July, Mrs. Hawkins gave me a back comb which she took out of a chest of drawers behind the door in the front parlour first floor, which she occupied—I do not remember my mother going to the pawnbroker's with the parcel.

Cross-examined. I know this comb (produced) is the same by a tooth being split—I have not had much conversation with my mother about the matter—we have spoken to each other about the comb—I kept it about three weeks, when my sister came for it.

ROBERT WILD . I am a pawnbroker in Trafalgar Road, Greenwich—I produce two towels which were used as wrappers for two parcels pledged one in March, and the other on the 29th April—I know the prisoner as a customer of mine—the assistant who took the pledges in has gone.

Cross-examined. The prisoner has pledged things with me and bought things of me for' the last two or three years.

MARY ANN COB (re-called). This comb is my property, and is one of the things I missed—I mentioned it to the prisoner when I complained of the articles missing—two of the articles produced by Kavanagh, a toilet cover and little boy's pinafore, are my property—I made them myself and can swear to my own work—the linen button came off and I put a bone

one on—the bodice here is ray property, it is my own make, I got that from Mrs. Jonas.

HARRIET JONAS (re-called). Mrs. Hawkins gave me this bodice in May it was a present—she gave me several things—I nursed her—I was in the prisoner's service in January—I was never accused of stealing—I did not leave there—I went occasionally and washed—I know a Mrs. Atherfold—my discharge had something to do with her—she lost 10s., but she quite exempted me from it—I was not accused when Mrs. Coe lost her things, they said "You must be the thief," and I said "Do you think I took the 10s." and she said No, she never did—I have never been accused before—I never saw the towels before—I was several times left in charge of Mrs. Atherfold's room—I did not give those two towels to the prisoner as a present in the presence of Mrs. Atherfold—I have often taken things to the pawnbroker's—the prisoner did not tell me she had no wrappers for them, and I did not say that brown paper would not do, and that I bad two towels she could have—I did not bring them to her and say "You can use one for a wrapper, and the other soft one will do for your baby"—I never had access to Mrs. Coe's room, and Mrs. Atherfold has never seen me there—I worked for Mrs. Hawkins up to the time Mrs. Coe lost her things.

PATRICK DAVIS (Policeman S 238). On the 17th of last month I took the prisoner into custody, and told her she was going to be charged with stealing a work-box, and other articles named in the indictment, the property of the prosecutrix—her reply was "Why was not Mrs. Jonas charged, the person who pledged them?"—she immediately afterwards handed me thirtythree pawn-tickets, and some of them related to these—two were found amongst the thirty-three.

Cross-examined. I have only known the prisoner in my district but three months, and have not had any opportunity of knowing anything about her—her husband is very respectable, and possibly she is—she gave me the pawn-tickets immediately.

Re-examined. At the time she made the statement as to Mrs. Jonas having pledged the things I had not mentioned Mrs. Jonas' name, and she was not in the room at the time.

MARY ANN COE (re-called). The witness Jonas could not get into my room—she was not left in charge of it, or her little daughter.

Witness for the Defence.

ELLEN LOUISA ATHERFOLD . I was a lodger in Mrs. Hawkins' house for some time—with regard to these two towels, I was in Mrs. Hawkins' front parlour when she was doing up a parcel to take to pledge—she was wrap ping it in paper, and Mrs. Jonas came in at the same time, and said to Mrs. Hawkins "Why do you put it in paper"—Mrs. Hawkins said "Because I have not a wrapper"—Mrs. Jonas said "I have an old one I can let you have"—at the same time she went home and brought two towels (this is one, and this is the other), and said "This will do to wrap the parcel in, and this one I will give you to wrap your baby in, as it is soft"—these are the towels—I have known Mrs. Hawkins just turned a twelve month, during which time I have lodged in her house with her and her mother, and have found her to be honest and respectable.

Cross-examined. MRS. JONAS went away and got the towels—I had never seen them before she brought them into the house—this one was to do up something to go to the pawnbroker's—it was taken away that same day, and I did not see it again until I went before the Magistrate—it was never in my possession for a single moment—I noticed the iron-mould because she

held it up and. said "You see it is a very old one"—I pledge my oath to the iron-mould—the other towel was to be used for the baby.

By THE COURT. I have come to prove how Mrs. Hawkins got the towels; to swear that Mrs. Jonas gave her two towels—I have not seen them since or before—I had no reason to take any particular notice of them.

The prisoner received a good character.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-539

539. CHARLES HENRY HART (19), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing a coat, waistcoat, and trowsers, of John Baggett, also to stealing a watch, the property of Henry. George Pitcher, also to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Greenwood, and. stealing, therein two pairs of boots and other articles, his property— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Justice Field.

Reference Number: t18750920-540

540. WALTER THOMPSON HUNT (33) , was indicted for feloniously killing and slaying Mary Ann Hudson. He was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with a like offence.

MESSRS. POLAND and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS TATLOR . I. am a labourer, residing at 10, Providence Place, Lower Norwood—on 12th August, between 11 and 12 o'clock in the morn-ing, I first saw the prisoner, he was quite a stranger; he came from the Gipsy Queen and called to me and my wife as we were passing, by—we went back and all went into the Gipsy Queen together—we had half a quartern of gin, I think; we all took some of if; we then went across to the beer-shop opposite, we had a pot of 6d. ale there, the prisoner called for it and we all drank out of it; we stayed there, I dare say, an hour, I could-not say exactly—we did not have any more drink there—we then went to the Thurloe, we had nothing there, the landlord would not serve us—we then went up to the Horns—I could not say justly how long we stopped there, it might be two hours—we came from there home, which was not a quarter of a mile—when we came out of the beer-shop opposite the Gipsy Queen the. prisoner asked me if I knew a chemist's shop—I said there was one just over the road and he went across to it—we waited in the road for him and he came out again and joined us and we went to the Thurloe—that might be about 2 o'clock as nigh as I can guess—I don't know what time it was when we got to the Horns, it was about 5.15 when we got home—we had a pot of 4d. ale at the Horns which the prisoner called for, and he said "You had better drink that yourselves, I will have a drop of something else," and he called for a half quartern of gin for himself—we did not go into any other public-house before we got home—on coming out of the house—my wife had a fall, she pitched forward on the tip of her elbow and cut her eyebrow and when we got home I went and got some water to wash it and strapped it up—Mrs. Hudson, the deceased, came in about live minutes afterwards to see what was the matter and she finished washing it and put a plaister. on—the prisoner was there—Mrs. Hudson seemed quite sober—she lived at No. 6, Providence Place, about four doors from us—the prisoner said "I will have it done properly and I will fetch a doctor," and he started to fetch one—he came back in a little while and said "I can't see the doctor, but I have

something here will do you good, get a drop of cold water, and I will give you a drop out of this"—I took a little beer-glass off the mantel-piece and got a little cold water just outside my door; the glass does not hold half a pint; I brought it about three parts full—he said "There is too much water, have you got a smaller glass"—I said "There is one on the mantel-piece, sir"—he took it off himself and tipped a little water into it, about half full, and then put something out of a bottle into it; he just dripped it in—I saw the bottle in his hand—this (produced) is very much like it; he pulled it out of his breast coat pocket—I did not notice justly how full the bottle was, he nearly filled the wine-glass from it and he gave it to my wife—he said she had better drink it up, it would do her good—I was not much the worse for drink, I had my common senses and knew what I was doing—I had had too much to do me good, I was not drunk, if I drink a little it flows to my head and makes me stupid, and that is the reason I keep away from it as much as I can—my wife was the worse for drink, she was not sensible, she was laughing and singing—she drank this all up that he gave her—he then said I had better have a little, it would do me good—he mixed me up a little in the same glass, about the same quantity as nigh as I could guess, and I drank it—this might have been near 6 o'clock—Mrs. Hudson was there all this time—the prisoner asked her if she would have a little, and he mixed her up a glass full of it and gave it to her—she said "Thank you," and drank it—the glass was about half full of water before he poured the stuff out of the bottle, it was about the same dose as he gave my wife, about half water and half the stuff—it was a small bottomed glass, larger at the top—it tasted a little bitterified when I drank it—Mrs. Hudson only remained a few minutes after drinking it; she said she must go indoors—when she was going out the prisoner said "Stop a bit, you had better have a drop more, it will do you good;" he pulled the bottle out of his pocket again and put it into her hand to drink some out of the bottle—there was not a great deal in it then, it might come a little way up the bottle (describing), I could not say exactly how high it was in the bottle when he first began to pour it out, it might be nearly half full or a little better—he took the cork out when he gave her the bottle—I saw her drink—she gave him back the bottle and he corked it up and put it in his pocket—I could not say justly how much there was in it then, there seemed to be very little, just a little at the bottom—this took place just at the door-step—Mrs. Hudson then went into her own house and he stepped in again—when he came inside the door he looked at the bottle and said "Dear me, she has taken enough to kill a pig," and he put it in his pocket again—my wife and, I were then sitting down, I was on a chair by my door—he said "You had better go upstairs and go to bed, or else you will not be able to go up at all presently, and you will find yourselves as happy as lambs in the morning"—I can't say how long he remained after this, he might stop half an hour—he was standing looking at us all the time; he said but very little—in a very few minutes after seeing Mrs. Hudson go away I fell down out of the chair on my hands and knees whilst he was there—I should think that was about ten minutes after I had taken the stuff—my wife helped me up into the chair again, and a few minutes afterwards I fell out of the chair again down on the floor and could not get up, and my wife fell down trying to help me up, and she was not able to get up; that was from the stuff the prisoner had given us—I felt as if I had got no use in my legs and I felt pains—I remember Dr. Harris coming; the prisoner was there when he came.

MRS. HUDSON had sent for him and he came from Mrs. Hudson's—he asked the prisoner what he had been giving—he said "I have not been giving them anything"—we did not go to bed that night, we laid on the floor all night—the doctor gave us some medicine—the prisoner did not tell me who or what he was, or his address, or anything—he said nothing to me about being a doctor, or as good as a doctor.—'

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I have said on several occasions that I did not think you intended to do us any harm, I don't know as you did—I did not feel at all uncomfortable or suspicious until you said she had drunk enough to kill a pig—it was about 11.30. in the morning when I first met you, it was not past 3 o'clock—we were about twenty minutes in the Gipsy Queen, we only had a quartern of gin there, you called for more" but they would not serve you—you asked me at the beershop what was the matter with my forehead and I told you I had had a fall and had teen to the hospital. and had a bone taken out—I did not say that gin affected my head—after we came out of the Gipsy Queen and went to the Hope my wife was humming a bit of a song; she was not affected by liquor then; she is very often in a singing way when she gets out—she used to-have a good voice at one time—she sang one song in the tap-room at the Hope and began another and you sang one or two yourself—they would not serve us at the Thurloe—we might be at the Horns two or three hours, we were sitting down there very busy talking—I was outside the house when my wife fell and saw her fall; she bled a good deal as we went home—we met Cutting, the man the deceased cohabited with—just as we were entering Providence Place, he was going out to work—the place is no thoroughfare—I was sitting just inside my door smoking my pipe on the Friday after this occurrence—two or three persons came to ask me how I was—I did not tell any of them that we were all drunk together.

HANNAH TAYLOR . I am the wife of the last witness—on Thursday, 12th August, I was out with my husband between 11 and 12 o'clock—we saw the prisoner at the Gipsy Queen, he called us in—we had some drink there and then went to a beershop, then to the Thurloe and afterwards to the Horns, drinking at some of the places during the day—I remember the prisoner asking if we knew of a chemist's shop, that was after we came out of the public-house opposite the chemist's—my husband told him there was one there and he went across to it, he came out again but did not say whether he had got anything or what he went after—we came out of the Horns about 5 o'clock or it might be a little after—I tumbled down and cut my eye—we afterwards went home to our house—Mrs. Hudson came in to dress my head—the prisoner gave us some stuff out of the bottle and then he asked Mrs. Hudson if she would have some and she partook of it, he gave her some out of the glass, the same as we had—after that he said she had better go indoors, and when she got to the door he said she had better have a drop more and he gave her the bottle and she drank out of it and went indoors—after she' had drank it he said "La, ma'am, you have drunk enough to kill a pig," and he turned round into the house and put the bottle in his pocket—after he had gone I was taken ill, I fell off the chair on to the floor—I got my fingers in my mouth and my jaw got fixed, and I could not get them out again—Dr. Harris came and attended to me—I am getting quite right now—when the prisoner gave us the stuff he said "You had better drink it and get upstairs"—I understood him that he was a

doctor by his giving us this stuff—I don't remember that he said anything about being a doctor.

Cross-examined. I fell twice during the afternoon; once coming out of the Horns when I cut my eye, and once indoors after you gave me the stuff, I fell on the door sill and cut my head—I did not bite my fingers through when I had them in my mouth, it left a mark, I bit a bit of my tongue off—I could not get my fingers out of my mouth from the jaw being so tight upon them—I did not feel any lightness in my arm or any loss of power, I had no pains in my back till after I fell, I expect that was from the fall on the doorstep—you left the house to go for a doctor—I believe you were there when the doctor came, and after he came you went away.

GEORGE REYNOLDS . I am a journeyman sweep and live at 1, providence" Place—on 12th August, between 6.30 and 7 o'clock, I was at the corner of Taylor's house fetching some water from a tap there—the prisoner came up while I was there—he had a medicine bottle like this in his hand, it contained about 1/2 oz. of liquid—he said to me "Sweep, drink," offering me the bottle—I was in my sweep's clothes—I told him I was a teetotaller—he, said "I have got three drunk inside, I can fetch them round quicker than ever" they have been fetched round in their life time"—I saw him go back into the house and-1 came away—Hitchcock was outside.

Cross-examined. Hitchcock was there and could hear what you said—you did not address the same word to him in my presence—I was a teetotaller then—I will swear the words you said were "I have got three drunk, inside;" not "There are three of us drunk here, but this will fetch us round quicker than ever we were brought in our lives."

GEORGE HITCHCOCK . I am a labourer, and live at 8, Providence Place—on, 12th August, about. 7 o'clock, I saw the prisoner come out of No. 10—he had a bottle in his hand like this; only it looked to me to have marks across it—he said to me "Have a drop of this; it will do you good"—I said "No thank you, I don't drink"—he said "I have three drunk inside, I warrant I can fetch them round quicker than ever they have been fetched in their life time"—he stopped there for two or three minutes along with Mrs. Hudson—I saw him talking to her with the bottle in his hand; she was standing outside the door with him—I did not hear anything said then, I saw him talking to Reynolds, and he went inside No. 10 again with the bottle in his hand—I did not see where Mrs. Hudson went to—a few minutes afterwards I saw the prisoner come out again and go towards Lower Norwood Station—he said "You are a d----rum lot of people"—he said that, as he was coming out of the door, he did not say it to me—he was neither" drunk or sober—he appeared to be three parts intoxicated.

Cross-examined. I don't recollect saying anything about Mrs. Hudson, before the Magistrate—Reynolds was at the tap drawing some water, not at at the time you spoke to me; he came just afterwards; he was not in my company—I did not see you go to the tap for some water.

MARY ANN SUTTON . I am the wife of Thomas Sutton, of 7, Providence Place, next door to Mrs. Hudson's—on Thursday evening, 12th August, about 7.30, I heard her scream violently two or three times as if in great pain, and heard her say "For God's sake someone help me"—I went to her house and found her lying on the floor in the back-room, she appeared to be in great pain and was struggling violently and moaning very much—I gat some water and sprinkled her face, I thought she was in a fit she twisted herself about very much as if she was in a violent convulsion fit—

she said something to me—Dr. Harris was sent for, a little girl next door went for him; he came while I was there, and before she died—I was there when she died, which was about twenty minutes after I got into the house—I afterwards saw the prisoner at the police-station, and heard him say that he was in the habit of taking strychnine himself—he said he knew nothing at all about Mrs. Hudson, and had no remembrance of seeing her.

Cross-examined. I saw nothing of you till I saw you at the police-station—I had never seen Mrs. Hudson in a fit before—she was not subject to fits—she was not exactly a woman of temperate habits—she was addicted to drink at times.

By THE COURT. I had seen her several times that afternoon—I saw her a little after 6 o'clock—she was then quite well, getting a pitcher of water from the tap at the corner of Taylor's house—she was not drunk.

JAMES CUTTING . I am a labourer, and live at 6, Providence Place—the deceased Mary Ann Hudson, lived with me—I last saw her alive at 5.40 in the evening, on 12th August—she was quite well, better in health than I had seen her for months and quite sober—she was in the kitchen when I last saw her; I saw her dead at 7.30—about 5.40 that evening I saw a young man with Mr. and Mrs. Taylor go into their house; I could not swear to the prisoner, but I believe he is the man.

Cross-examined. It was as near 5.40 as I can remember, because I had to go and feed my pigs, and I can tell to a minute where I met you, and what I said to you; I returned home after that, and said to Mrs. Hudson "There is a specimen of drunkenness at No. 10; don't go in there or I will knock your head off"—she had not been in when I left at 5.40 to feed my pigs; I was back in ten minutes.; I had to get back to my work at the cemetery at 6 o'clock.

JOHN HARRIS . I am a surgeon at Lower Norwood—on Thursday evening, 12th August, I was sent for to No. 6, Providence Place; it was about 6.20 when I got there—I found Mrs. Hudson on the floor; she appeared to be in great abdominal pain—I could not at that moment tell what from—she said a doctor at No. 10 had given her some medicine; I then saw a spasm, accompanied with an arching of the back—I recognised that as a symptom of poisoning by strychnine—I immediately went for an emetic—I was only gone a minute and a half or two minutes, but she was dead before the emetic could be raised to her lips—she died just before I reached the door—I had taken a-boy with me, who ran on in front—on the Friday I made a post-mortem examination—the heart was empty, and from the appearances I was able to form an opinion that death was consistent with poisoning by strychnine—I saw no other cause of death—an overdose of strychnine would quite account for the appearances I saw—in my judgment that was the cause of death—the stomach was almost empty—I took it out and tied it securely at the esophagus, and the intestines also; they were very nearly empty—the stomach was done up and sent to Dr. Muter—on the same Thursday evening, from what I heard after Mrs. Hudson was dead, I went in to No. 10—I found the prisoner there and Mr. and Mrs. Taylor—the prisoner was the worse for drink; he was slightly intoxicated—Taylor was much worse, and Mrs. Taylor exceedingly so—the prisoner knew perfectly what he was about—I asked him if he had given Mrs. Hudson anything—he said "No, but I have been doing all I could for these poor creatures, who are drunk," or something of that kind—I examined Taylor at once; I did not then see any marks of poisoning by strychnine—about

three-quarters of an hour afterwards I did, the arching of the back—I administered an emetic to him; the prisoner had left then—I gave Taylor two emetics; he vomited—I took possession of the vomit, put it into a bottle, and it was sent to Dr. Muter—Mr. Taylor did not appear to be Buffering so much from the strychnine as her husband; the symptoms were less marked, simply spasm—I saw no characteristic arching; the spasms were consistent with her having had a mild dose of strychnine in solution—being under the influence of liquor it might not act so powerfully; they are perfectly well now.

Cross-examined. I have never used strychnine as a remedy for intemperance, or known it so used; it is a valuable tonic—I believe it has a counteracting effect, but it is not used as a remedy—I am familiar with Dr. Taylor's work on "Medical Jurisprudence"—I quite agree with this at page 176, ninth edition: "Of the appearances observed in poisoning with strychnine there are none which can be considered strictly characteristic"—there are none taken by themselves, but there are other certain symptoms, taken with other facts, which help to bring the cause of death to a decision—there might be a spasm and an arching not due to strychnine—the symptoms before death, taken with certain appearances after death, would in my mind leave no doubt—the appearances after death alone I should say are not conclusive—I have no experience of the fatal effects of strychnine in the human body—I believe it has been known to be as short as fifteen or twenty minutes—in Taylor's case it was over an hour before the symptoms showed themselves—it was very nearly 6.30 when I saw Mrs. Hudson dead—the case of Dr. Warner cited by Dr. Taylor, where death took place in twenty minutes, would, I think, be one of the most rapid fatal cases—you did not seem to be in any baste to go, or to be trying to avoid me—I don't think I noticed that your legs were at all constricted or bowed—I noticed a slight stagger, as though you had been drinking—lock-jaw is a light symptom of poisoning by strychnine.

AARON WARREN (Police Sergeant P 35). From information I received on this Thursday evening I went to the London, Brighton and South Coast Station at Lower Norwood, and found the prisoner on a seat at the platform—I told him I should have to take him to the station for causing the death of a woman named Hudson, and also with attempting to administer poison to two other persons—he said "I know nothing about it"—I took him to the station, and he was charged with causing Mrs. Hudson's death by administering to her a poisonous draught, namely, strychnine, and also with attempting the deaths of two other persons with the same poison—he said "I had been drinking with Taylor and his wife, and I did administer' strychnine to them in a wine glass of water; the deceased woman Hudson I know nothing about"—he wished me to take that down, and I did so—I searched him and found this small medicine bottle in his inside breast coat pocket; there was about a table—spoonful of a white liquid in it—I gave it to Inspector Dorgan—the prisoner said, when I took the bottle from him, that it contained strychnine—I afterwards went to 10, Providence Place; I found Taylor and his wife both ill—this wine glass was on the mantelpiece; I gave it to the inspector—the prisoner was very drunk and very excited at the station—I visited him in the cell at 1 o'clock in the morning; he then said that he had been a great drinker, and had been in the habit of taking strychnine to deaden the drink.

Cross-examined. It was about 7 o'clock when I took you into custody;

it might have been a few minutes earlier—it might have been 6.45, but I don't think it was; the clock struck seven within a minute or two after getting to the station, and we were close by—your expression "I know nothing about it" was not in reference to Mrs. Hudson; it was also in reference to the Taylors; I am quite positive—in taking you in a cab to the Lambeth police-court next morning we went by way of Tulse Hill; you pointed out the residence of the tax-collector where you said you had been to pay some taxes the day before, and also a place where the road was being repaired, and said something about treating men there with liquor—you did not point out the Two Woodcocks beer-shop, or a chemist's shop; you were some distance from the chemist's when you spoke of it—you said you had been into a house close by—the tax-collector's is 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 miles from Providence Place—I made inquiries with reference to your statements, but could not hear of anybody who knew anything of you, except at the tax-collector's; he said you were there about 11 o'clock, and had paid his daughter.

ARTHUR DORGAN (Police Inspector P). On Saturday, 14th August, I received a jar from Dr. Harris, sealed up, also a bottle containing a vomit, and this bottle; the wine glass I got from the constable—I took to Dr. Muter all the things; Dr. Harris had sealed up the bottle.

DR. JOHN MUTER . I live in Kennington Road—I am public analyst for the parish of Lambeth—I received this jar and other things—the medicine bottle was sealed up—I examined the solution in it; there was about a tea-spoonful in it, about one fluid drachm—it was a solution of strychnine; that is in the pharmacopea as a medicine—it is a powerful tonic—the mixed official dose is 10 drops—it is of a recognised strength—I should say that a teaspoonful might be enough to kill; that would be 60 drops—a medicine of that kind requires to be administered with proper care and skill; it is one of the medicines scheduled in the Poisons Act that a chemist has no right to sell without a doctor's prescription, or registering the name and address of the person to whom he sells it—the stone jar was sealed; it contained a stomach—there was a very small quantity of fluid in it; I should say not much over a tablespoonful, if that—I examined that, and found it contained strychnine—I did not weigh the quantity, it appeared so very small—I examined the bottle containing the vomit; that was sealed with red wax—I found it contained sulphate of zinc and strychnine, and a large quantity of alcohol—sulphate of. zinc is used as an emetic—I have read that alcohol will deaden the effect of strychnine—a large quantity of strychnine taken on an empty stomach would cause death more rapidly; if taken with food, its effects would be diminished.

Cross-examined. All that I can say is that I found sufficient strychnine in the stomach to give me a well-marked test of its presence, but not of its quantity—I believe I said before the Magistrate that I found a trace of strychnine; anything that we do not weigh we are accustomed, in chemical language, to call a trace—whether I should expect to find more than a trace in the case of a fatal dose would depend very much upon the time it had been in the body, and whether the person vomited or not—no change in the body after death affects the presence of strychnine—if vomiting took place there would not be time for it to be absorbed; if there was no vomiting, and no letting out of the contents of the stomach by accident, I should expect to find more than a trace—I could not succeed in isolating a fatal dose—I could not give any opinion as to there being a

fatal dose in the vomit; I did not find sufficient to be a fatal dose—in poisoning by strychnine you would have to take the symptoms before death in connection with the post-mortem; the post-mortem alone is not sufficient—I don't say that the symptoms alone are not sufficient; I think the symptoms are very well marked, but I never saw a person die from strychnine—my knowledge is derived from reading, and from seeing animals die—I believe the symptoms are much the same; there are certain marked symptoms peculiar to strychnine—I heard Dr. Harris' evidence—I do not think the appearances described by him are consistent with death from natural decay aecelerated by insufficient nutrition—I am conversant with the action of sulphate of zinc—it does not cause pain in the abdomen; it is rejected the moment it is taken, when taken as an emetic—I should say two doses might have a tendency to cause pain in the abdomen; if takes in small doses it is an irritant—pain in the abdomen is a well-known symptom of poisoning by sulphate of zinc—I do not think it would account for characteristic convulsions.

GEORGE THOMAS TOMSETT . T am a chemist in High Street, Lower Norwood—on 12th August about 1 o'clock in the day, the prisoner came to my shop and asked for a draught as he had been drinking—I mixed him a little sal volatile—as I was mixing it he asked me to put some strychnine in it as it was the only thing that would do him any good—I refused to put strychnine into it, but I gave him a draught, which he drank in the shop, and then left—about 3 o'clock he came again and asked me to repeat the draught; I did so—he called again about 6 o'clock, and wished me to go and bandage a woman's head up—I sent him across to Dr. Harris—I saw him go into Dr. Harris' gate, and that was the last I saw of him—he had been drinking—I did not sell him any strychnine, or anything to take away with him, he never asked me for anything.

Cross-examined. I am pretty well certain that it was shortly before 6 o'clock that you called the last time, by the time I had my tea.

WILLIAM FREDERICK WINDLE . I am a chemist, of Thurloe Place, Lower Norwood, a little before 2 o'clock on Thursday afternoon, 12th August, the prisoner came to my shop and asked me for a dose of nux vomica for delirium, tremens—after some little time I served him with it, and after a little while I gave him a second dose, he took them both before he left—he asked me to let him have a small bottle of it—I declined to do so—there was no symptom of delirium tremens about him, but he accounted for it in another way, he was very excited, and talked very fast, but he appeared to know what he was about very well.

Cross-examined. I can fix the time with perfect certainty, the clock struck two either while you were in the shop, or immediately after—my shop is about halfway from Tulse Hill to Mr. Tomsett's—I did not notice what coat you wore, it might have been the one you have on now, a black one.

WILLIAM ABBEE . I am a fishmonger at Lower Norwood—between 2 and 3 o'clock on the afternoon of 12th August I was in the Gipsy Queen, I saw the prisoner come in about that time, he called for something to drink and was served—he asked me about a chemist's shop—I told him there was one next door, Mr. Tomsett's—he said he had been there—I said there was another one lower down, Mr. Windle's—he said he had been there—I told him of another one, but he did not say anything to that, whether he had been there or not—that was in Chapel Road, about 1/2 a mile from there—he

said that he had been drinking very hard of late, and he was in the habit of taking strychnine—that he had been round by Tulse Hill, and one place and another, and he said "I have enough strychnine in my pocket to kill fifty people with"—some people came in just before I went out, I could not see who they were, they were behind a partition—the prisoner called for a quartern of gin for them—I afterwards saw him at the Hope with Taylor and his wife.

Cross-examined. It was about 2.45 when I left you at the Gipsy Queen, I am quite positive it was not between 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning—it was about a, quarter of an hour afterwards that I saw you and the Taylors at the Hope—I am positive you said you had enough strychnine in your pocket, or in your possession to kill fifty people with; not that you had taken enough, or had had enough, you did not say what you wanted the chemist's for—you and the Taylors all seemed very much elevated, you called for a pot of ale at the Hope, and went into the tap-room and commenced singing, all of you together, that was the last I saw of you.

ALICIA KATE HARRIS . I am the wife of Dr. Harris who has been examined—on Thursday afternoon, 12th August, the prisoner came to the house near 5.30, he asked for Dr. Sharland—I said he did not live there, but Dr. Harris did—he asked if he was at home—I said he would not be home till 6 o'clock—he said that was very 1/4 silly—I said "How could he see his patients if he was always at home"—he said a woman had fallen down and cut her head—he was not sober, he smelt very much of liquor—he appeared to be annoyed that Dr. Harris was not at home.

Cross-examined. I did not notice the coat you wore, I believe it was a black one—I don't think you wore a top coat, I could not say for certain.

WILLIAM NASH . I am a chimney sweep, of 1, Providence Place, Lower Norwood.

Cross-examined. I saw you at 6.30 in Taylor's house, and afterwards at the tap at the corner with a little tumbler, you filled it about half full of water from the tap and took it inside the house—I am quite certain it was 6.30—you poured some stuff out of a bottle into the glass inside the house; I saw that; you seemed to do it carefully, not steadily, the same as you pour liquor out into a glass to mix it—I saw the interior of Taylor's room at the time—there is only one room on the ground floor, and one over, I could see all over the ground-floor room—when you put the stuff into the tumbler you offered it to Mrs. Taylor; she would not drink, she drank a small portion of it, she would not drink it ail—I did not see Mrs. Hudson there at that time—I had seen her several times that evening, but not at Taylor's house—I saw Hitchcock there at the same time, he was making a net outside—I did not see Reynolds there then—I saw the doctor arrive, and I saw you leave—I lived at the same house as Reynolds—he broached the subject that evening of your offering him the stuff—he has not told me anything about it since, nor did Hitchcock.

He-examined. I saw Mrs. Taylor's head bleeding—I don't know who strapped it up.

By THE JURY. I can fix the time as 6.30 by the labourers coming home from work at the time—I was in such a position that I could see the whole of Taylor's room, and all the persons that were in it.

CHARLES TIMMS (Policeman). On Thursday evening, 12th August, I assisted in taking the prisoner into custody—he was left in my charge at the station—he said "I have been in company along with the Taylors

drinking; I am a very hard drinker, and I am in the habit of taking strychnine, and I gave Taylor and his missus a small portion to fetch them sober, but the deceased Mrs. Hudson, I have no recollection of whatever."

DR. MUTER (re-examined). I examined the wine glass, but found nothing in it, it was quite dry and empoy—I received it from the inspector along with the other articles.

AARON WARREN (re-examined). I found the wine glass on the mantelpiece, about 8 o'clock or a little after; it was empty—there were traces of something in it; I could not tell what it was, it was something of a white colour, there was no quantity of it—I handed it to the inspector—it seemed as if something sticky or wet had been in it, I did not put my fingers to it—it was sticky.

DR. MUTER. That would certainly not be the appearance of strychnine in a glass.

The prisoner in his defence contended that the evidence of the Taylors, owing to their drunken condition, was not to be relied—upon; he asserted that he had no recollection whatever of seeing the deceased, and the only way in which he could account for her having taken any of the strychnine was by his having left it in the pocket of his overcoat at Taylor's while he went for Dr. Harris, and during his absence having drank some it.

AARON WARREN (re-examined). When I took the prisoner into custody he had on a light overcoat and a coat underneath; the bottle was in the breast pocket of the under coat—there was a great quantity of papers in. the pocket of the overcoat, and some in the pocket with the bottle—I took papers out of different pockets.

GUILTY Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Justice Lindley.

Reference Number: t18750920-541

541. FREDERICK WILLIAM DRAKE (14) Feloniously cutting and wounding Frederick Drake-with intent to murder him.

MR. SIMS conducted the Prosecution.

FREDERICK DRAKE . I am a brush maker of 37, Stanley Street, Batter-sea—the prisoner is my son—on Thursday night, 29th July, I went to bed about 10 o'clock—the prisoner always slept in the same bed with me, and we both undressed together that night—I had a few shillings in a purse in my trousers' pocket, and I put my trousers under my pillow—I had some other property between the bed and the mattrass, which the prisoner knew nothing about—I remember nothing more till I was in the hospital—the prisoner had in the room one suit of black clothes, and a black cloth jacket and waistcoat, and corduroy trousers—the black clothes were the best, but he wore them on week-days usually—when we went to bed this poker (produced), was, I believe, in the fire-place, and this knife, either on the table or in the table drawer in the same room—this razor is mine, it was on the right hand sideboard closed when we went to bed, and the strop with it—I don't know what money the prisoner had that night, but it would be under 6d.—I had been to Southend with him the week before, and we stopped at Gravesend every night—there was no quarrel between us before we went to bed, we very seldom quarrelled—I did not lock the bedroom door.

FANNY HARRISSON . I am the wife of Francis Harrisson, a bricklayer, of 37, Stanley Street, Battersea—the prisoner and his father lodged in my house—I heard their door locked on Friday morning, 30th July, which awoke me, and I heard one person go downstairs—heard the key taken out

of the door, and heard the street door shut—I dare say that was at a little after 3 o'clock, but I had no watch—I went to sleep again, and was awoke again in, it might be an hour or half an hour, by a loud knocking at Mr. Drake's door, and heard him cry "Help," "Dying"—I got up, and got Mr. Noon from the top of the house to break the door open, but I did not go in; I sent for Dr. Hunter, who was the first person to enter the room, and after him the police—no one had any opportunity of moving anything from the room—it was the front room on the first floor, and mine was the next room—I had bolted the street door myself over night—I did not hear it unlocked.

WILLIAM FREDERICK NOON . I am a white-smith, and live in this house—on 30th July my wife awoke me about 4.15 a.m.—I dressed and went down, and found Mrs. Harrisson outside Mr. Drake's door—we could not find the key, and I broke open the door—I did not go in, but I saw Mr. Drake sitting upright on the foot of the bed, saturated with blood—I shut the door, sent my wife for Dr. Hunter, and remained at the street door till he came—nobody came in or out of the house while I was there—I went. in with the Doctor, and saw this poker on a chair just behind the door, covered with hair and blood—I fetched a constable.

ANN NOON . I am the wife of the last witness—on 30th July I heard Mr. Drake's door locked, and it sounded like the boy going down—I heard steps and heard the door shut, and some one go out into the street—I went to sleep again, and at exactly 4.15 I heard Mr. Drake calling for help, and knocking—I awoke my husband.

FREDERICK HUNTER . I am a surgeon—on 30th July, I was fetched to 33, Stanley Street, about 4.45—I went into the first floor front room and found the prosecutor lying on the bed with his head to the foot apparently insensible—his face and chest were covered with blood, and his face was very much swollen—one pillow was saturated with blood, another-pillow was on the ground between the bed and the window, also saturated with blood—there was a knife on the ground, this poker was on a chair on the other side of the bed, near the door; both of them were covered with blood, and there was hair on the poker as well—I afterwards saw a case of two razors on a chair, near the fireplace—there was a table and a couch in the room—I did not examine the razors, but they did not appear to have been used—I did not open them—I found two contused wounds on Drake's right temple and an incised wound on his forehead—the contused wounds could be produced by a poker, and the incised wounds by a knife—his right eye was reduced to a state of pulp, either from pressure or from the end of the poker striking it; it is entirely destroyed—there were three smaller incised wounds on his face; his lower jaw was very much swollen from a severe blow, and blood was oozing from his mouth—one tooth was lying loose in his mouth, and there were two or three teeth about the bed—he had a deep incised wound on his abdomen, below the naval, dividing the skin, and the fatty muscles—the small bone of his right arm was fractured, and there was concussion of the brain from the effects of the blows—he was still losing much blood—I dressed his wounds and then tried to rouse him—all the wounds could be produced by these weapons—it is nearly always the case that persons labouring under concussion of the brain, know nothing about it at the time—I saw the prosecutor's trousers on the couch and noticed blood on the braces which were attached—from the fact of his remembering nothing about it the inference would be that the poker was

used on his head first and concussion caused, he would then be paralyzed for the time, and the other wounds would be made without resistance—when the concussion passed off the loss of blood would tend to produce sensibility, and he might get out of bed and go to the door and make a noise, but as the blood continued to flow he would become insensible again, and there would be syncope from loss of blood—none of the wounds were dangerous to life individually, but collectively they were.

JAMES MCQUEEN (Detective Officer V). On 30th July, about 9 am., I was called to 37, Stanley Street, searched Drake's room and found his trousers on a couch—there was nothing in the pockets—I found some property between the bed and the mattrass which he has identified—I also found a pair of boy's cord trousers, and a little black vest which I took to" the station—on 2nd August, I went to 201, Lever Street, St. Luke's, and saw Clara Harrisson—I gave instructions there and the prisoner was brought to the station, the same day, dressed in the black suit which he has on now, except the vest and shirt, and inside the lining of his vest there were spots of blood, and also on his shirt—he said "How is my father?"—I said "He is very bad"—he said "Do you think he will die?"—I said "The doctors say he will"—he then commenced crying and I left the cell.

By THE COURT. I examined the street door—it had not been forced in anyway from the outside or the in—there were no signs of anybody having got in at the window.

CLARA HARBISSON . My husband is a painter—we live at 201, Lever Street, St. Luke's—Mr. Drake is my cousin, I was housekeeper to him for a time—on 2nd August, about 2.30, the prisoner came to my place, I had not seen him since 29th July—it was a bank holiday—his aunt, Mrs. Wayman, was there—she said to him "Oh, Freddy, where have you left your poor dear father?"—he said "I left him well and hearty in bed this morning"—I had seen McQueen before that—I sent for a policeman and the prisoner was given into custody—on the way to the station I said to him "You have got your best clothes on, how did you come by them V—he said "A man put them on, he threw something over my eyes"—I said "Why did you not holloa?"—he said "I could not"—I said "How did you get here, where have you been?"—he said that he had been to Rosherville and had walked home.

ARTHUR BAKER (Policeman G 284). On 2nd August I took the prisoner at Mrs. Harrison's house and told him the charge—he said "I did not do it, a man did it, he threw something in my face so that I should not see what he was doing"—on the way to the station he said "The man tied a handkerchief over my mouth so that I should not holloa"—at the station he said "A man threw a sheet over me and took me out of doors and left me. "Edward Davis (Gravesend Constable 18). On Saturday, 31st July, between 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning, I found the prisoner lying asleep on one of the seats of the Town Pier—I asked him what he was doing there—he said that he and his father had come from London in a steamboat to go to Sheerness and he got out there thinking his father was going to get out there—I took him to the station where he stated in the presence of the sergeant that his father had been staying at Gravesend about a week since, but he did not know the name of the street—he was allowed to remain in the station till 6 or 7 o'clock that morning and then let go—I said "I will go round and see what your friends will do to get you back." The prisoner declined making any defence.

GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-542

542. HERBERT GEORGE HERBERT (50) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Jane Indermaur, with intent to murder her.

MR. C. MATHEWS conducted the Prosecution.

JANE INDERMAUR . I live at 5, North Place, West Square—my husband died in January, 1874—I have known the prisoner over two years—we kept a general shop, and he frequently came there during my husband's life, and after his death—he sometimes came there two or three time a day—he promised my husband when he was dying that he would give an eye to the shop, and he did help me—in May this year he said that his wife was dead and he should expect to have me, and, if he could not, no one else should—he frequently asked me to marry him, but I always refused him—the last time he asked me was on the morning this occurred—I had a collar of his to wash, and on 15th August I took it to his house, in Ely Place, St. George's Road—the street door was open, and I went to his room door and knocked—he said "Come in"—he was lying on the floor just inside the door; he had sold his furniture, and there was no bed—he spoke first—he said "I have not been in above ten minutes; I have been out all night"—I said "You must be foolish to stop out spending your money; you will want it to keep you next week; I cannot stop now, I am going into the London Road"—I laid the collar on a box—he said "Wait a minute," and ran towards the door and turned the key, and then he held his hands over his shoulders, clasping his hands, and said "I don't know what is the matter with me"—that frightened me (I had been frightened of him some times because he threatened that if he could not have me himself no one else should, for he would do for me)—he then pushed me against the window with his left hand; his right—hand was in his right trousers pocket—I turned my head, and felt a razor go across my throat—I said "Oh, you have cut my throat"—I did not see the razor till I took it from his hand and threw it down by the box; it was a white handled one—the blood poured from my throat like a fountain—he seemed staggered for a few minutes, and I gave him a push with one hand, turned the key with the other, got into the passage, and screamed "Murder!"—he got hold of me again in the passage, and I got hold of his whiskers—Mrs. Maynard and another woman then came to my assistance, and the next thing I remember is coming to my senses in St. Thomas's Hospital—I received this paper in pencil (produced) on 24th or 25th August—it is in the prisoner's writing—he writes two or three hands, but this is the hand he generally writes.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I know the nature of an oath, and I am speaking the truth—I had seen you in St. George's Road on the Saturday morning previous to this Sunday at 10 o'clock, and we had a quartern of gin and afterwards a cup of tea—we had a rasher of bacon for breakfast, but I could not eat it—you did not bring me gin every morning—you gave me part of a glass of gin on this morning, and you had the rest of the half-quartern—when I came to your house on the Sunday morning you were very much agitated; I can't say whether you had had anything to drink—you and I had some drink on the Saturday, but I was not drunk—I did not go home drunk at 1.30; I was in the house by 12 o'clock—I did not ask you for money on the Sunday, and tell you I had spent my money in drink—I have not been out with you at all hours of the night—neither of my daughters are here—you have never taken me home drunk—I have never laid on a bed with you, but you have said that you would take my character away—my daughter Emma was not married by a false license; she stopped away all night, but only through you, and she went to her husband's mother

—I never said that if the girls found out that I was in the family-way I would make away with myself—I am not in the family-way—I have never been to bed with you at your house, and you never asked me such a thing, you wicked man.

Re-examined. There is not the slightest truth in the prisoner's suggestions—I have been out very little with him—I work very hard, and have had children to bring up, and the prisoner has tried to ruin me but could not, and then he tried to ruin my two poor children, and now he has tried to murder me—my eldest daughter, Emma Page, was called as a witness before the Magistrate, I do not know who by—she is at Acton—I never saw this document (marked A) till last Friday week, when I came out of the hospital, and was before the Magistrate—the inspector produced it, not the prisoner—this letter marked B was brought to me in the hospital by the scripture reader, Mr. Bacon, before that.

By THE JURY. I am quite sure the prisoner has threatened to do for me, he did so frequently, and that is the reason I did not go to my husband's friends and tell them—he said "If I can't have you myself, I will do for you"—I have had money of the prisoner, and he has had money of me—I have always paid him back.

SUSAN GROVES . I am the wife of George Groves, of 4, Ely Place, St. George's Road, next door to the prisoner's house—on Sunday, 15th August, I passed his door, which was open, about 10 a.m., and heard a slight scuffling in the passage which I thought was the children, and passed on to my own door—afterwards I heard a moaning noise twice—I returned to the street door which was still open, entered, and saw spots of blood—I went up the passage to the door of the prisoner's room, and saw the prisoner with his right arm round the prosecutrix's neck, and his right arm appeared to be cutting her throat, from which blood was flowing—I went to the street door and screamed for help, and then returned and pulled Mrs. Indermaur out of his arms—he then turned and glared wildly at me, went into his room and locked the door—I then with my sister, Mrs. Maynard, who had been attracted by the cries, assisted Mrs. Indermaur to the bottom of the stairs, where we sat her down and staunched the blood, which was flowing from her throat—my sister went with her to the hospital—Mr. Canning burst open the prisoner's door, and brought him out—I saw blood running from his neck, and he laid in the policeman's arms as if he was dead—he was also taken to the hospital.

Cross-examined. I have seen Mrs. Indermaur come backwards and forwards to your place several times—you told me at the hospital that she had been drinking very hard with you from Friday to Saturday.

CHARLOTTE MAYNARD . I am a widow, and the sister of the last witness—I live at 14, Tyre Street, Lambeth—I. was passing the prisoner's door with my sister, and heard a moan and a cry—she left me, and went into No. 3—I followed her immediately to the parlour door, which the prisoner occupied—my sister took Mrs. Indermaur from the prisoner and delivered her to me; her throat was cut—I removed her to the bottom of the stairs bleeding profusely—I took off my apron and wrapped it round her neck—I went with her in a cab to St. Thomas Hospital—on the following Tuesday afternoon at visiting time, I went to St. Thomas's Hospital and saw the prisoner there—I said "This is a bad job, how are you?"—he said that he gave Mrs. Indermaur 5s., and that they had much drinking on Saturday, and when she took the collar home on Sunday morning words arose, arose and he

did it and was very sorry for it—he said that the words were about the collar and the 5s.

MICHAEL LYNCH (Policeman L 30). On Sunday morning, 15th August, I was called to 3, Ely Place, and saw Mrs. Indermaur in the passage, and the two last witnesses aiding her—I tried the parlour door and found it locked; I burst it open, and found the prisoner lying on the floor with his throat cut from ear to ear, and a pool of blood in front of him—I took this razor from his right hand, put him in a cab, and took him to St. Thomas's Hospital—I remained there in charge of him for a month all but two days—he told me a fortnight afterwards. that they had both made up their minds to drown themselves—when he was well enough I took him to the station and told him the charge; he made no reply.

ELIZABETH RUDD . I am the wife of John Rudd; of 5, North Place, West Square—the prosecutrix has lodged in my house since Easter—the prisoner has visited her there, and I have heard words between them more than once; the first time was at the end of May or the beginning of June—they were at my street door, and I heard him say that if he did not have her nobody else should, and I heard him abusing her at the end of July—I do not remember the words he used—she only said "Go on"—I have seen her write, but only addresses on envelopes—the signature "Jane Indermaur" on this blue paper (A) is not her writing in my opinion.

Cross-examined. I have only seen you go out with her once or twice; I do not think she was ever out as late as 2.30 a.m—a man at a pickled eel shop once asked me to get you and her to go home—I once heard a female voice in the house between 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning.

Re-examined. I do not know whose voice it was—the prisoner is married—I don't know his wife; I am not acquainted with her voice.

By THE COURT. I never knew her to go to his house and pass the night with him, but I know she was out with him on the night her daughter was married; that was six weeks ago—she came to our house, and my husband got up and let her in—I have known them out on a great many occasions till 9 or 10 o'clock at night, but not later, but he has come home with her once or twice when we have been in bed.

HENRY HUGH CLUTTON . I was house-surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital on 15th August, and attended to the prisoner and the prosecutrix—the woman had a wound on her neck, which was bleeding rather profusely; it was short, but rather deep—the windpipe had not been touched, nor the jugular vein—she might have bled to death if she had not had assistance—this razor would cause it—the prisoner had a very long wound on his neck, nearly from ear to ear; there were two cuts—I have heard that he drew his hand from the left to the centre, and the same on the other side—the wound might be inflicted by this razor—he was quite conscious when I saw him, but he was shaking very much, and was exceedingly nervous—he spoke rationally; he merely wished me to leave his—wound alone—I was stitching it up, and of course it was rather painful.

ALFRED BACON . I am a Scripture reader—in the month of August I was exercising my calling at St. Thomas's Hospital—I saw the prisoner five times, and he one day gave me a note enclosed in this envelope (produced) it was sealed, and asked me whether I would give it to Mrs. Indermaur as I was going to visit her—she was in the Elizabeth Ward—I took letter B 3 there to her at his request and delivered it to her. (Letter Bread; "My dear Jane, this comes with my kindest love to you, and hope that you are

better; I have heard of you every day from the nurses, may God forgive me what I have done, I am sure you will. I have had the lawyer to see me this day, and he tell me that I had better tell all that I know of you. I told him I did not like to expose you; then he said the best for you to say would be this, that you come to me on Sunday morning about 9 o'clock, and you found me not very well, and I said I was not well, for I was all of a tremble, that you and me had a few words about your girl's behaviour to you, and that you was very vext at the time. I gave you a glass of gin and had one myself, then we had a few words about money that I spent, and that you said sooner than live like this you would cut your head off, and at the same time took the razor off the box and threw it across your neck; I jump up and took it from you and cut your throat, and then he cut his own, &c. If you do not say the few words I shall out with everything that I know about you, &c. Herbert, No. 24, Leopold Ward, St. Thomas's Hospital, to Mrs. Indermaur, Elizabeth Ward, St. Thomas's Hospital."

JOHN WHEELER (Police Superintendent L). On the morning of 15th August, in consequence of a communication from a person unknown, I went to 3, Ely Place, and found this paper, marked A—I produced it to the Magistrate at the Police Court—the prisoner had not given me his address—there was scarcely any furniture in the room, it was the front parlour—Emma Page and, Lucy Cowley were both called before the Magistrate, but not bound over—Mrs. Kilsby was not called, she could not be found at the address given.

JANE INDERMAUR (re-examined). Both the signatures to this paper marked A are in the prisoner's writing, but I do not know about the body of it—I never saw him write like that before—I am certain that the "Jane Inder-maur" is not my writing. (Read: "I, Herbert and Jane Indermaur agree to put an end to our lives, mine is the cause of my wife leaving me, and Jane Indermaur the cause of her daughter's behaviour to her, and we have been together as man and wife for three years, and we love each other, and do now; Mrs. Rudd, of 5, North Place, St. George's Road, was with us last night, Friday, and she can tell a grate deel if she like; Mrs. Inder-maur is in the family-way by me, and not wish her daughter to know it—Herbert Herbert. Jane Indermaur. Emma Indermaur and Liz are two bad girls to her mother, know that their mother sleep with me when she like. I am in the Oddfellow's Club at Silverdale;' send to Mr. W. Thompson, Church Street, Silverdale, near Newcastle, Staffordshire, he will pay all demands of funeral"

Prisoner's Defence. On the Saturday night, between 12 and 1 o'clock I met a man who asked me for a match and I asked him where I could get a glass of drink. He said that it was too late and he took me to his house in Hatton Garden where there was card playing; I would not play and went to sleep, and about 7.30 he came out with me and put me in the road home, but I could scarcely walk and I thought the devil was touching my shoulder. Mrs. Inderwick has been with me night after night. I had nearly 800l. when I came home and she has robbed of the best part of it. I kept a pony and trap then.

GUILTY .— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-543

543. SARAH HILL (26) Feloniously cutting and wounding Walter Andrews with intent to murder him.

MR. ROBERT WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution.

BENJAMIN POLLIN (Policeman M 129). On 16th August I was on duty in Kent Street—a communication was made to me and I went to Guy's Hospital and saw the dresser—from there I went to 24, Etham Place and found no one there—I then went to No. 20 at 1 a.m. and found the prisoner there with her sister, I believe, and two men—I asked her whether her name was Sarah Malyon—she said "No"—I said "I come to take you on a charge of stabbing a man who you have been living with at the backroom, 24, Etham Place"—she said "All right, I know I did it, I would do it again, and I hope he will be a corpse before morning"—I said "Where is the knife you did it with?"—she raised her left hand and hit me across the nose with the thick part of her hand saying "If I had the knife I would do it for you"—I took her to the station and while the inspector was reading the charge to her she said "If you want the knife you will find it down the. closet"—I searched there twice, but could not find it—she said before the Magistrate that she hoped the man would be a corpse before next week, and on the 27th, when she was committed for trial, she said that she wished she had killed him—she then fainted in the dock—I have known her eight or nine months as a prostitute living with the prisoner.

WALTER ANDREWS . I am a labourer, of 24, Etham Place—the prisoner has lived with me as my wife for about ten months—on Monday, 16th August, about 5 o'clock, as I came home from work I passed the Castle and saw her and her sister there—I joined them and we had a pint of ale between the three of us—we had no conversation—I went and sat down—they then went out and I followed them 30 or 40 yards behind—they went home and I followed them upstairs about a" minute afterwards' and sat on the side of the bed—the prisoner began swearing and threw something at me; I bobbed my head down and got up to go out without speaking to her, but her sister laid hold of my shoulders and held me while the prisoner rushed at me with a knife and I felt it sticking in my ribs—I had on my coat and waistcoat—I pulled the knife out, threw it on the floor and ran downstairs, walked about 10 yards across the road, felt faint, and fell against a wall—a man who I knew named Charley put me on a barrow and took me to Guy's Hospital—while I was on the way there I saw the prisoner and her sister coming behind—the prisoner was holloaing out "I did it"—I was in the hospital till the 27th—I have known the prisoner by the name of Sarah Malyon—I was not in drink when I left the public-house—it was a large table knife ground to a point, such as you eat your dinner with.

Cross-examined by the Prisoner. My name is Walter Andrews—I am not a deserter, I am in the Militia—I have been at work all the time I have lived with you; my wages are 3s. 7d. and 4s. a day—I have found money for the expenses of the household, and have not lived upon your prostitution.

WILLIAM HENRY ARSANT . I was house-surgeon at Guy's Hospital on 16th August, at 5 o'clock, when Andrews was brought in—he had a punctured wound on his left side, just below the fifth rib, which has passed upwards into the chest wall, apparently to about three quarters of an inch—it had bled a good deal, but had ceased when he got there—I did not know then whether it had penetrated the lungs, but it turned out that it had not—it was just over the region of the heart, and if it had gone straight, instead of glancing upwards, it would have entered the heart—he was faint from loss of blood when he was brought in, and air had got in all round his

chest—I considered him in much danger; a table knife would inflict the wound, but it would need some strength to do it—it did not do him any serious harm, and he went out quite well on the 27th—I think he had been drinking when he came in, but it was difficult to tell, because he was rather faint.

WALTER ANDREWS (re-examined). I was not in the habit of beating the prisoner; I have hit her on one or two occasions when she has thrown basins at me—the last time I beat her was two or three weeks before this—she gave me sixpence for my breakfast that morning.

Witness for the Defence.

MARY ANN FENWICK . When the prosecutor came into the public-house he told the prisoner to go home—when she got home she had a knife in her hand, peeling potatoes, and he came in and struck her with a tin sauce pan, and there was a mark on the wall; he struck her back again, and they struggled together—she fell in a corner of the room, and he, being very drunk, fell on her, and when he got up he said "Oh, Polly, I am stabbed"—I never heard of his doing a, day's work during the ten months he has lived with her, but on the Saturday he gave her half a crown—she has kept him by her prostitution—a week before this she was blind, and her arms were bruised very much from his beating her—he had to get some cotton and mend his coat, and he said "I have given her a good hiding, and she deserves it."

Cross-examined. I live at 20, Etham Place—I gave the same evidence before the Magistrate, but was not asked to sign it—I am married, but do not live with my husband.

Witness in Reply.

BENJAMIN POLLIN (re-called). The prisoner has been six times before the Magistrates at Southwark, and the last witness was there every time she was called on their own side, and said that all she knew was that she pulled the knife out of his coat after he drawed it from his body, and that what else she had to say she would say on the trial—she is also a prostitute, and her husband has had ten years penal servitude.

Prisoner's Defence. For ten months I have kept him by my prostitution,—and have come home cold and hungry, and he has beaten me because I had no money to give him. Give me one more opportunity, and I will go into an institution. I was getting his dinner when he struck me with the saucepan, and I struck him back, and in the struggle the knife went into him, but I did not do it intentionally.

GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding — Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18750920-544

544. STEPHEN NOONAN (17) , Feloniously wounding Henry Wood with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MOODY the Defence.

HENRY WOOD . I live at 13, St. George's Place, White Street, Borough, and am a brewer's storesman—about 10.30 on the evening of 26th July, I was in the Coach and Horses—I heard a band of music and went down the street with a man named Watts—he knocked against a woman who was carrying some beer—a young man said something—I can't tell whether the prisoner was present—there were some words and I felt two stabs in my left thigh—a man named Ward was charged with stabbing me—he was

brought to my bedside and I identified him then to the best of my belief as the man who had stabbed me—he was tried at this Court and acquitted (See page 531)—I can't swear to the prisoner at all.

Cross-examined. The man who stabbed me was the person with whom I had the words—I saw his features plainly and distinctly, and I still believe that Ward was the man.

ELIZA ALDRIDGE . I am a widow, and live at 5, Queen's Gardens, Crosby Row—on the evening of 26th July about 10.30 I was outside the Coach and Horses listening to a band that was passing—I saw Wood and Watts there dancing on the pavement—I saw Mrs. Noonan, the prisoner's mother, coming from the Constitution public-house with some beer in her hand—as the two men were dancing they shoved up against her, and spilt some beer—I saw the prisoner there—he asked one of them what he shoved up against his mother for, or what he struck her for—one of them, I can't say which, said he did not do it, and told him to go and get his supper—the prisoner said "Can you make me go and get my supper," and Mr. Wood said "I could eat eight or ten like you before breakfast"—I saw the prisoner make two blows at Mr. Wood and run away down Crosby Row—Mr. Watts followed him—I remember Frederick Ward being charged with this offence—I did not know him till I saw him at the station—I was sum moned to be a witness and bore testimony for him—he was acquitted—I am certain he was not there at the time Noonan struck Mr. Wood.

Cross-examined. I was about 10 yards away, or it might have been 12 when it first commenced—I saw two blows struck—I was close to the prisoner's elbow then—there were a few people about, there was Watts and Wood, and myself, and three men besides the prisoner, and two or three women—it was Monday night—I have not had any disagreement with the prisoner's friends—I am living with someone—the man I am living with had a few words with Jeremiah Began, who is a relation of the prisoner—they did not have a regular fight; the one I am living with did not strike Regan at all, Began struck him, there were a couple of blows.

By THE COURT. After the prisoner had struck Wood I told him to get away or he would be locked up—I told his mother to get him away.

MARGARET WHITBY . I am single, and live at 3, Peter's Place, Crosby Row—I was present when the prosecutor was wounded—I saw Mrs. Noonan there—I heard Wood say he would eat ten like the prisoner, and the prisoner made two plunges towards him, I thought with his fist—I did not see anything in his hand—he walked away afterwards.

Cross-examined. The band of music was outside the Constitution, and they were dancing about 50 yards away, opposite Mrs. Graham's, the greengrocer's—I should say there were about twenty or thirty people there, and I was standing amongst them—I had not heard any of the words that passed.

JAMES BAYER . I live at 5, Providence Place—I was a witness for Ward at the last Sessions, but I was not examined—I saw this dispute outside the public-house—I saw the prisoner there—when I came up he was having a few words with Wood—the prisoner had something in his hand, but I could not tell what it was exactly, and he struck at Wood.

Cross-examined. I did not hear Wood say anything—there were twenty or thirty people about, in the road and all—I was a little way from there—I knew the prisoner by sight before—I saw his hand go, but I could not see anything in it—his side was towards me—I know Mrs. Ward since the last case, she was not there at the time.

CHARLES DOWNES . I am a surgeon, at 13, White Street, Borough—I saw Wood, on 26th July; he had two wounds in the thigh; one an inch and a half in length, and an inch deep, or an inch and a half, and the other was a smaller one—he had lost a considerable deal of blood and was exhausted—subsequently he had pyemia and an abscess formed which necessitated opening the stitches again—he was laid up five weeks—the trousers were cut through—a knife would inflict the injuries I saw.

Cross-examined. But for the pyemia or erysipelas it was not absolutely dangerous.

JOHN LOOK (Policeman M 154). In consequence of something that I had beard I took the prisoner into custody on this charge, at that time a warrant was issued for his apprehension—I told him I should take him for stabbing Henry Wood, on 26th July—he said "I know nothing about it"—at the station the charge was read over to him and he said "I did it"—two or three minutes afterwards he said "The brewer pushed against my mother, I was urged on by the crowd, and I did it"—he said he thought that as Ward had been charged that he would not be wanted.

Cross-examined. On the Saturday, when he was remanded the prisoner denied having made such a statement—the inspector or acting sergeant read the charge over to him—he is not here to-day—the constable who held the warrant was there, but he is not here—I wont be certain whether any caution was given to him—I can't say.

The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate; The constable says I did it; I never did it, and I did not say so.

GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding — Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-545

545. THOMAS BAKER (26) , Feloniously wounding Catherine Tubb, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. THORNE COLE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.

CATHERINE TUBB . I live at 9, Elizabeth Place, Webber Row, Waterloo Road, and am the wife of Samuel Tubb, a painter—the prisoner lives at No. 17—on Monday evening, 16th August, I was passing his door between 9 and 10 o'clock, with Mrs. Cook—the prisoner was standing at his garden gate and made use of fearful language towards me—he put up his fist and hit me—my husband was sitting at the door, and I called to him to protect me, he came up and I went indoors—the prisoner said if he did not do something for me someone else should before the week was out—nothing more occurred until the Wednesday, when my son went and asked the prisoner what he meant by calling me such filthy names—I went up with my son—the prisoner said if he did not go away from the door he would rip his b----bowels out—he shoved him away and they fought—my husband came and took the boy home—about ten or fifteen minutes after wards I sent my little girl for the beer, and I saw the prisoner come rushing down to our place—I said "Shut the door"—he rushed into the house and seized the chair to illuse my son—I put up my right hand and I saw part of a knife in his hand, below his fist, and I received four stabs on my hand—my husband put him outside the door—someone said "Blind her with the lamp," and my husband removed the lamp from the table and put the prisoner out—I went to the station and the inspector ordered me to be taken to the hospital, where my band was dressed.

Cross-examined. I swear that I saw part of the knife projecting from his

hand—I think I said before the Magistrate that I did not see what he did it with, but I was so ill I hardly knew what I said—I did not say to my" son "Hit him"—I tried to part them—there was a jug on the table with a pint of beer in it—the jug was broken with the leg of the chair—the prisoner did not fall—my son did not hit him with the jug—I did not see any blood on the jug the next day—the pieces were swept up and thrown in the dust bin—my daughter was outside the house when my Hand was cut—someone held the door after the prisoner was put out so that he could not return—my daughter did not fling herself between me and the prisoner—she was outside.

VIRGINIA TUBB . I am the daughter of the last witness—on Wednesday evening, 18th August, between 8 and 9 o'clock the prisoner came to our house—my brother was indoors—I was outside—I did not go inside at all—I had been for my mother's supper beer, and as I came back I saw the prisoner coming along—he walked till he got to the first gate and he threw off his hat and jacket, and ran down to my mother's door—when he got there father put him out, and I went to shove him again, and I felt some thing like a knife cut my hand—it bled and I screamed—the police came and I was taken to the doctor's.

Cross-examined. I did not see the prisoner take up the chair; I was told of it—I saw the jug, after I came from the station, broken all to pieces on the ground—I did not see all that happened.

SAMUEL THOMAS TUBB . I am the brother of the last witness and son of the first—on this Wednesday night I went round to the prisoner's house and called him out and asked him why he had insulted my mother and used bad language to her—he said if I was not off from the door he would rip my bowels out—he then made a blow at me and I hit him back—we were parted and I went home—about ten minutes afterwards somebody halloaed out "Close your door, here he comes"—I got up from the chair and he rushed into the house and took up the chair to go to make a hit at me—we made him put down the chair, and somebody said "Blind him with the lamp"—the prisoner had a knife in his hand when he came in, it was hang ing out of his hand—my mother came in and they said "Blind her with the lamp"—he made a stab at me and I went back—my mother put up her hand to save me and he stabbed her in the hand—he struck her hand three or four times—he had the knife in his right hand—he caught my mother by the wrist—my father pushed him out of the house and shut the door.

Cross-examined. We had not a fight outside his door—he made a hit at me and I struck him back—I did not knock him down; he did not fall to the ground at all—I did not hit him with the jug—he took up the chair and knocked the jug off the table—I did not strike him in the house; I don't know whether any one else did—I did not see any one strike him.

FREDERICK WILDERSPIN (Policeman K 523). On this Wednesday night I was called and took the prisoner into custody—I found him at his own house wiping his arms with a towel—there appeared to be blood on the towel—the prisoner had been drinking, but he was not drunk—I told him he would be charged with stabbing a woman—he said "All right, wait a moment and I will come with you."

HENRY PERCY POTTER . I am house-surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital—late on Wednesday evening Mrs. Tubb came there and I examined her—she had three incised wounds on the back of the right hand, dividing the tendon—

they must have been produced by some sharp instrument and some amount of violence must have been used—two arteries bled.

Cross-examined. It was not likely to be caused by a broken jug; it was too clearly cut; it must have been a very sharp edge.

GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude. There was another indictment against the prisoner for wounding Virginia Tubb.

Reference Number: t18750920-546

546. ELLEN ADAMS (42) , Stealing a watch of Richard Philips from his person.

MR. DOUGLAS conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD PHILIPS . I am a commercial traveller—on 3rd June, about 1.30 a.m., I was going home along the Old Kent Road to Peckham—I saw the prisoner there—she spoke to me and after a few seconds I walked away—I missed my watch directly and went after her—I told her I believed she had stolen my watch and she said she had not—I insisted that she had and I gave her in charge.

EDWARD HUNT (Policeman M 44). I took the prisoner into custody about 1.45 a.m. on the 3rd June and told her she would be charged with stealing a watch from the last witness—she said she knew nothing about it—when we were within 10 yards of the station I heard something fall, like the breaking of glass—I said "Look out behind," and when we got inside the door I turned up the gas and found this watch hanging to her dress, dragging on the ground—she was taken before the Magistrate and remanded—the prosecution was entered into again and I apprehended her on 13th August as she left the infirmary of Newington Workhouse.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent of taking it, it got entangled in my dress when I was with the prosecutor—I was never locked up before.

RICHARD PHILIPS (re-called). My watch was in my waistcoat pocket and the bar was through the button hole—I should not think five minutes elapsed from the time she spoke to me till I missed it.

GUILTY .— Three Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-547

547. GEORGE WARD (49) , Feloniously attempting to discharge a loaded pistol at William Henry Reeve with intent to murder him.

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. SIMS the Defence.

WILLIAM HENRY REEVE . I live at 6, George's Place, George Street, Lam beth, and am a carpenter—on the evening of 9th August, about 5 o'clock, I was in Regent Street, Lambeth, talking with a man named Casey—the prisoner came up and said "Good evening"—I said "I don't want to have any thing to say to you"—he said "I have something to say to you, though"—I moved away a pace and he struck me behind the left ear with the butt end of a revolver—the blow felled me to the ground, and when on the ground I saw the revolver and he held the muzzle of it against my chin he struck me several blows over the head after that with the revolver—when I was on the ground I heard the hammer of the revolver go down; I heard the click from the pulling of the trigger—I am quite sure I saw the pistol in the prisoner's hand—his finger was on the trigger and I am quite sure I heard the click—I called to Casey to help me—a constable was fetched and I gave the prisoner into custody for assaulting me with fire arms—he said "I meant to shoot him and I will do it again."

Cross-examined. I was examined before the Magistrate—I don't know that I mentioned then that the prisoner said he meant to shoot me; another witness did—I heard him say so myself—I don't think I said it before the

Magistrate—I don't think I was asked the question—I have been a witness in many cases, and I have had some experience in Courts of Justice—I was convicted 18 years ago as a little boy, about 13 years of age—I had three months and four years in a Reformatory—I did net do all the time—I was let off in consequence of good conduct—I came out in 1861 I believe—I have been in the Police Force some portion of the time since then—I did not tell them anything about my conviction; I was not asked that question—I was asked as to character, and I produced characters—it is necessary to produce characters for the last five years, which I did—I wrote down that I was a single man—I married the prisoner's daughter, and she was away from me—she had left me, and I considered I was a single man—I said I was a single man, and I knew I was married—I subsequently asked for leave of absence in order to go and get married—that was in July or August 1873—I did not get married—I went back again, and took a woman as my wife to whom I had not been married—that was discovered, and I was dismissed the next day from the Police Force—that was in December, 1873—I am a carpenter and joiner now, nothing else besides—I was secretary to the Magna Charta Association, but I did not get any pay for that—I am not a member now—I ceased to be a member the same week that this happened—it did not suit me to belong to it any longer, I did not think it worth while—there was not a Committee of Inquiry into my conduct in connection with the Magna Charta—I was not there, and I don't know anything about it—I believe a committee was appointed in my absence, and I believe Casey was one of them—I don't know what it was appointed for, I was not there—it was not to inquire as to certain sums which I had received and not paid in—I had nothing to do with the money, and it could not have been so—the Committee were holding an inquiry without my consent at the Mason's Arms, and I went up to know what it meant, and to stop them—I had not got my jaw bandaged up then, nor when I was before the Magistrate—I had a piece of sticking-plaster behind my ear, where the prisoner had wounded me with the revolver—I had it on for a week, till the place was well—I will swear I had not a bandage or a handkerchief on when I was before the Magistrate—I had seen the prisoner about ten days or a fortnight before this occurred—I have seen him several times, but have not spoken to him—I had seen him more than once in two years before this affair; it is not two years since he was the means of getting me dismissed from the Police Force—that was in December, 1873—I had only seen him once since then before this occasion, when I was talking to Casey—it was in Regent Street, and Casey lives there, and it was close to my house as well—I was standing talking to Casey when I saw the prisoner, and that was the first time I had seen him since eight or ten days before—I will swear that I saw his finger on the trigger at the time I heard the click—I believe the prisoner has been in the Army; in the East India Company—this (produced) was the revolver I saw in his hand.

WILLIAM HENRY CASEY . I live at 34, Regent Street, Lambeth—on the evening of 9th August, about five o'clock, I was talking to Reeve in Regent Street—the prisoner came up and looked very heavily, like thunder, at Mr. Reeve—Mr. Reeve said "I don't wish to have anything to say with you"—he said "But I do with you," and he rushed at him, and struck him with his fist—he did not fall at that—he returned back and said "Do you see this"—I could see something in his hand, but I did not know it was a

pistol—he struck him with his fist again, and rammed the pistol into his mouth—he did not fall at that, but the prisoner struck him behind the ear, and he went down, and he put his foot on his shoulder, and said "I mean to shoot you"—I heard a snap, and saw it was a pistol then—I rushed over to the prisoner, and, after a struggle, got the pistol away—I went down Lambeth, Walk to get a policeman, and when I came back there were two policemen there.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was still there when the policemen came up—when the prisoner first came up, he said "Good evening"—he struck Reeve first with one fist and then the other—Reeve stumbled at that, but did not go down—I saw the pistol after the blows with the fist—Reeve did not strike too, to defend himself—the prisoner struck him behind the ear with the butt end of the pistol—I was on the Committee of the Magna Charta, appointed to investigate some matters connected with Reeve—I don't know whether he knew of it; it was something about money matters, as to the payment of his money into the Association.

GEORGE WILLIAM REYNOLDS . I live at 171, Vauxhall Walk—on the evening of 9th August, I was in a beershop in Regent Street, about 5 o'clock—I heard a noise, and looked through the window—I saw the prosecutor down, and the prisoner had his foot on his left shoulder, and was pointing a pistol at him—I went and caught hold of him, and he shoved me away—a constable came up, and the prisoner made a kick at the prosecutor, and kicked him in the side—I saw the prisoner strike him in the mouth with the muzzle of the pistol when he was down.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was very excited—I saw him strike the prosecutor behind the ear with the pistol, and also on the mouth—I did not see the commencement of it—I did not see the prosecutor strike the prisoner.

FREDERICK KEYS (Policeman L 223). On the evening of 9th August I was called to Regent Street, and Reeve gave the prisoner into my charge for attempting to shoot him and assaulting him—I told the prisoner the charge, and he said "Yes, and I wish I had killed him"—he struck Casey and Reynolds after I had him in custody—I searched him, and found two cartridges—I received this six-chamber revolver from Casey, and gave it to the station sergeant on duty.

Cross-examined. I did not examine the pistol closely; I know very little about pistols—the prisoner was very much excited—the prosecutor was at the station at the time the charge was made.

CHARLES DENTON (Police Sergeant L 1). On the evening of 9th August I was acting inspector at the station when Keys brought in the prisoner—he gave me this revolver and I examined it; I found four of the chambers loaded—the hammer was down, but it had not struck the pin of the cart ridge; if it had it would have gone off—I said to the prisoner "Are you aware this pistol is loaded?"—he said "Yes, four chambers; and it was owing to six not being loaded that he may thank his God"—I read the charge over to him, and he said "Yes, and I will do it again."

Cross-examined. The prosecutor was present at that time—I did not see any annoying signs made by him to the prisoner at that time—the prisoner was greatly excited—I found the hammer down between two of the chambers—I have no special knowledge of revolvers—I took the cartridges out; I did not fire them off—if the trigger was pulled back the whole distance it would fire the cartridge—I have beard that the prisoner has been in the

East India Company for seventeen years I am not aware that he was in the habit of dealing in revolvers.

By THE JURY. The chamber on which the hammer would have come if it had gone off rightly, was loaded—at half-cock the hammer would be between the chambers, but, pulling it full-cock, the chamber comes directly, under the hammer.

COURT to W. H. REEVE. I said before the Magistrate "I lived with the prisoner's daughter for two years, and I left her and went to Leicester"—I went to Leicester for a week, and she joined me there.

The prisoner received a good character.


Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of the provocation which they believed he had received— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-548

548. THOMAS BUTLER (45), and JOHN McSWEENEY (46) , Burglary in the dwelling-house of Joseph Kitchen, with intent to steal.

MESSRS. BEASLEY and MEAD conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS defended Butler, and MR. STKAIGHT defended McSweeney.

ALFRED CORDING (Policeman M 43). At 3.50 on the morning of 4th August I was on duty in High Street, Southwark—I heard a kind of single knock at No. 39—I listened at the door for about fifteen minutes, and I heard a noise as if some wood and brickwork was being torn away—I rang. the bell, and Mrs. Willey, the housekeeper, looked out of the top window—I told her something was wrong, but she did not come and let me in—at the same time I saw the prisoners run out of King's Head Yard, which is about 6 or 7 yards from 39; there is one house between—the prisoners were in their shirt sleeves, with their coats on their arms—Sergeant Moon came up, and I told him what had occurred, and he followed the prisoners towards Stoney Street, and I went down York Street—they crossed the Green Market and the Borough Market by St. Saviour's Church—I saw them cross the Green Market—when I got to the archway, they saw me and turned off to the left towards West Kent Wharf; one turned down Winchester Street, and one down West Kent Wharf—I lost sight of them for about a minute, and then I saw Butler in the Green Market with Giles, the beadle—I said to Giles "That is the man I want"—Butler said nothing—I took him back to 39, High Street, and handed him over to two constables, who took him to the station—I afterwards went into the house—I saw McSweeney again on the 28th August at the Stone's End police-station—he was among twelve or fourteen others, and I picked him out.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. King's Head Yard is not an open thoroughfare—vegetable carts put up there on market mornings—there might be a water-closet there, but I don't know—I should think it was. about 100 yards from King's Head Yard to where I saw Butler with Giles—I only lost sight of him once, and that was when he went down Stoney Street into the Borough Market.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I had my greatcoat and truncheon on—the prisoner's both ran together—they were about 8 yards off when they turned out of King's Head Yard—McSweeney was in my sight about half a minute—I did not know either of the prisoners by sight before.

Re-examined I saw McSweeney cross the Green Market after he turned the corner—he was running then—I am sure he is the same person.

GEORGE MOON (Police Sergeant M 15). About 4 o'clock on the morning of

4th August, I saw two men come out of King's Head Yard together; Butler was one of the men, and I believe McSweeney to be the other, but I don't speak positively to him—they had their coats on their arms—they were coming at rather a quick pace, and were in rather an excited state—they went across High Street into Stoney Street—after they passed me, Cording spoke to me, and I ran after them—I lost sight of them when they turned into Stoney Street—I came back into High Street, and saw Butler in the custody of Cording, and Giles was assisting him—I asked Butler what account he gave of himself—he said "I will give an account of myself at the proper place"—he was taken to the station by other constables, and I went with Cording to 39, High Street—we rang the bell, but no one came down—I roused the people at No. 43, and they let me in—I got over the roofs of 43 and 41, and got into 39 and let Cording in—on the first-floor I found two holes cut in the floor large enough to admit a man, one over the staircase and one over the jeweller's shop, and there was a piece of rope which would serve the purpose of a ladder—I came downstairs, and found a hole large enough to admit a man cut in the partition between the passage and the shop—I found a crowbar, jemmy, lantern, a screw-driver, and a few other instruments at the bottom of the stairs—T went to the back of the premises and found the sky-light in the back room had been broken, and there was a large hole. there—the steps which had been used by workmen previously were standing under the hole—I went up the steps through the hole on to the roof of 39, over a low wall to 41, which adjoins King's Head Yard—on the wall next the yard, I found a parcel containing several iron and steel wedges, and seven or eight skeleton keys—I have all the things here—I saw some scratches against the water-pipe by which a man could get down—I next saw McSweeney about a fortnight or three weeks after in the cells—I was directed by my acting inspector to go to the cells to see if I saw any one I knew—I saw McSweeney in the last cell, and said "I believe that to be the man," and that is my belief now, but I can't speak positively.

HENRY GILES . I am beadle of the Borough Market—at 4 o'clock, on the morning 4th August, I saw the prisoners in the market running towards me from Stoney Street on their toes—when they saw me they stopped and Butler put on his coat—McSweeney had his coat on when I saw him—they seemed very excited, and dust laid on their faces—they walked by me and then started off running again, and I followed Butler and caught him—I did not lose sight of him at all—I brought him back as far Winchester Street, where we had a struggle, and he tried to get away, but I handed him over to the constable—I next saw McSweeney on 4th September at Stones' End, among thirty or forty others, and I picked him out.

Cross-examined by MR. M. WILLIAMS. Butler did not appear as if he had been drinking—when I caught him he trembled very much—I don't know that there is a closet down King's Arms Yard.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. When I first saw McSweeney I sup pose he was about 12 yards from me, and coming towards me—he had a hat on—they passed close to me on the footpath—McSweeney had his coat on when I saw him; I had never seen him before—I saw Butler put his coat on—I ran after him 70 or 80 yards.

Re-examined. When I saw them it was just about time to put the gas out; in fact, the gas was out at the water side.

JOHN CONNOR . I live at 104, Russell Street, Bermondsey, with my mother, who keeps a greengrocer's shop—I work at a cooper's in Snow

Fields—on the night of 3rd August I had been to the theatre in the Borough—I met another boy there—the theatre was over about 11 o'clock and I went home and took the other boy with me to sleep, but we were locked out; I have not seen that boy since—I have been to the place where he lived, but could not find him—after I found I was locked out we walked along the Borough to his house, but we could not get in there; that was about 12.15—we walked along the Borough, and about 1.30 we saw the two prisoners—McSweeney was trying the front door of the jeweller's shop—he was standing against the door, and as we looked round again we saw them both go down King's Head Yard; I am sure the prisoners are the men—I was about a couple of yards from them—we sat down at the side of King's Head Yard, and about 4 o'clock they came out of the yard again, with their coats on their arms—they are the same two men I saw go in—I saw the policeman and the sergeant listening at the shutters—the police man rang the bell, and then the prisoners came out of the yard and ran up towards the Borough Market—the policeman followed them, and I saw him and the beadle come back with Butler—I did not see them put their coats on—I told the sergeant what I had seen, and he told me to go to the station—I saw Butler there in the morning—the policeman came for me afterwards, and I went to the station and saw about twenty or thirty people, and I picked out McSweeney—I am quite sure he is the same man that I saw that night.

SUSAN WILLET . I am housekeeper to Mr. Joseph Kitchin, at 39, High Street, Borough—he was not stopping there on this night—Mr. Ernest Saunders occupies the jeweller's shop and the basement, and on the first floor are the offices of the Legal and Mercantile Association, Mr. Edwards, secretary—on the night of 3rd August I went to bed just after 10 o'clock, leaving the house safe—I was aroused the next morning, and found the sky light had been broken.

WILLIAM HENRY EDWARDS . I am secretary to the Legal and Mercantile Association, and have offices on the first floor at 39, High Street, Borough,' over the jeweller's shop—on 3rd August I left the office safe at 5.30, and locked the door—when I arrived next morning I found the place in disorder, the locks had been taken off by a centre-bit, and there were two holes in the floor, one over the staircase and one over the shop—one was large enough for a, man to pass through, and the other was not.

FREDERICK LARRARD . I am manager to Mr. Ernest Saunders, jeweller, 39, High Street—I locked up the shop about 9 o'clock on 3rd August—there was a quantity of jewellery in the shop, but we missed nothing.

WILLIAM LANE (Policeman MR 26). I received Butler at the station on the morning of 4th August, and searched him and found two skeleton keys, a brass chain, and a knife—I asked him how he accounted for having the keys in his possession—he said they were the keys of his door—I said "If I go to your doors will they open?"—he said "I decline to answer any further questions"—I have tried the keys, and one opened the front door of 6, Edward Street, Blackfriars Road, where he lived, and the other opened the parlour door—they are skeleton keys, and are newly filed.

MARY MITCHELL . I live at 6, Edward Street, Blackfriars Road, and am a widow—I let some lodgings to a Mr. Johnson and his wife at the beginning of June; he was with me for two months, but I only saw his back as he went into the yard—I don't know the day of the month, but one Thurs day morning his wife came and gave up the lodgings and went away—when

they first came I gave his wife a latch key—when she gave up the lodgings she gave me a key, but it was not the same one; it opened the door—neither of the prisoners is Johnson—I let seven rooms.

WILLIAM HALSE (Police Inspector M). At 11 o'clock on the night 4th September I took McSweeney into custody in Red Cross Street, Borough—I told him at the station that he was charged with another in custody with burglary in a house at 4 o'clock on the 4th August—he said nothing at first, but shortly after he said "I was in bed with my wife at the time"—he was placed with others, and the three witnesses picked him out.

Cross-examined by MR. STRAIGHT. I have known him some time by sight—I never knew anything bad of him—I can't say that he has been employed for sixteen years at Messrs. Horton & Sons, 63, Park Street, Southwark, it was said so at the police-court.

The Prisoners' Statements before (he Magistrate. Butler says: "I wish to draw your attention to those two keys found in my possession, I can prove they fit the front door and bed room door where I was residing." McSweeney says: "It is very hard for me to prove that I was not there, as I have only my wife, my landlady and her family. I was not with the man Butler that night"

Witnesses for McSweeney.

MARGARET RILEY . I live at 2, Green Street, Southwark Bridge Road, and am a widow—McSweeney and his wife have lived in my house a year and ten months—he was living there in August last—he has one son who is married and away from him—they occupied the back room on the first floor—I know he was employed at Horton & Sons for years before he came to live with me—he had been to sea before he came to my place, and then he worked for Hortons—he was sent into the country sometimes for them—I remember the 3rd and 4th August quite well—McSweeney slept at home on the night of the 3rd—I am sure he did—he went out about 6 o'clock on the morning of the 4th—he was the first that came downstairs—I asked the time, and McSweeney answered me and said it was just gone 6 o'clock—I am quite sure it was the 4th August because he came back at 11 o'clock for Borne clean things to go to the country—he went into the country that day—his wife did not go with him—he came in in a hurry about 11 o'clock, went upstairs and had a word or two with his wife about his clean things, came downstairs with a parcel, and went out in a hurry, and I did not see him again till he came from the country—I heard him say to his wife that the master was sending him to a job in the country.

Cross-examined. My daughter, Mary Short, lives with me, and a man who works in a tan yard—I have another daughter but she is not at home with me—she has been in a little trouble through making acquaintance with some persons who were not fit company for her—nothing was traced to my house—I am quite sure about that—she is in trouble now, but that has nothing to do with me—I sleep in the front parlour close to the front door—I go to bed about 9 o'clock and sometimes 10 o'clock—my little grandchild sleeps with me and ray daughter—I did not hear anybody go out—I always shut my door—a lodger can open it and go out by taking the bolt from the top and bottom, but no one can come in—I remember the 3rd August because McSweeney went to the country the next day—he often went to the country and aboard his ship to do a little job, and his missus goes and draws his money from the office when he is away—I don't know Butler at all—I never saw him at my place.

By THE COURT. I know it was the 4th August he went on a job because his wife gave me some money after he went away towards the Tent—I was not at the police-court.

MARY ANN SHORT . I am the wife of Robert Short, a carman, who works at West Kent Wharf—we live in the back room downstairs of my mother's house—we were living there in August—McSweeney and his wife also lived there, and his sister, Mrs. Lucas, had the front room, but she has left about three weeks—all I know is that since McSweeney has been at our house, a year and ten months, he has always gone out at six o'clock in the morning—I don't remember the 3rd August at all—I remember when he went out on one job on a Wednesday, when he went out in the morning about 6.10 and came back about 11 o'clock, for his clean clothes, and I went and pledged a shirt for his wife—I can't tell whether it was in the Bank Holiday week or not—it was in the summer time.

ANNIE LUCAS . I am married—I am McSweeney's sister—I was living at Mrs. Riley's, but I left the Wednesday before the 1st August—I know that my brother was employed at Messrs. Horton's, and has been for sixteen or seventeen years—a gentleman from there was here yesterday, and told me he could not attend to-day.

WILLIAM. HALSE (re-called). I was before the Magistrate on the first occasion—McSweeney was not then defended by an attorney—I was not there on the second occasion.

GEORGE MOON (re-called). He was defended on the second occasion by Mr. Edwards.

GUILTY .—McSWEENEY— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

BUTLER also PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted in November, 1869**— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18750920-549

549. RICHARD PRIOR (38), PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously marrying Eliza Langton, his wife being alive— One Month's Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-550

550. THOMAS FACEY (17) , to unlawfully attempting to obtain 6s. 3d. by means of false pretences with intent to defraud.— Three Months' Imprsonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18750920-551

551. CHARLES PARKER (28) , to unlawfully attempting to carnally know and abuse Mary Jane Munnings, a girl under the age of twelve years— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-552

552. ALFRED VALE (27), was indicted , for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. HORACE AVORY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. LILLEY and MR. SAFFORD the Defence.

HENRY PIKE (Policeman M 208). I am officer at the Southwark police-court—I served the defendant with a copy summons on the 24th August—I produce the original and also a copy—on the 31st August the defendant appeared to this summons at the Southwark police-court when the hearing was adjourned until the following day—I heard the defendant sworn and was present when he gave his evidence.

Cross-examined. My particular and careful attention was directed—the Magistrate questioned the defendant, having the books in his band, and after the question was answered the book was put into the hands of the defendant—I did not notice the defendant say anything about a mistake—the Magistrate did not put his questions particularly rapidly, rather quickly—I will not venture to say that the Magistrate put his questions in a leading

form, nor that the defendant said anything about a mistake, he might have said something.

ROBERT URKETT . I am usher to the Court—I was present on the 1st September, the occasion of the hearing of the summons—I swore the defendant in the ordinary way.

ELIZABETH CUTTING . I live at 18, Collingwood Street, Blackfriars Road—I am the wife of Robert Cutting—I went to the defendant's shop on Mon day morning, the 31st May, with Ellen Gerrard, a friend of mine—I saw a dark young man at the shop—I went there to buy a chest of drawers—he picked out a chest which were very dark in colour, rather thick at the top and the knobs were turned ones—there was a ticket on the drawers with 1l. 19s. 6d. marked upon it—the young man took off the 6d. and said I should have them for 1l. 19s.—I paid 2s. on account to a dark young man, he gave me a piece of paper dated 30th May (Mrs. Cutting. Chest of drawers, 1l. 19s. Paid 2s.)—I did not see any one else in the shop—on the follow ing Monday I went there again and made another payment on the drawers—the young man tore up the piece of paper and gave me another piece with the two payments made upon it—this is the piece (produced) he gave me on the second occasion—I saw him make the entry, I suppose from his memory—he told me it was a proper bill—he got the price from the other piece of paper, I saw him copy it—the first paper bore the date of the 30th May, which was a Sunday—I went regularly every week and paid installments for the drawers—it was on a Monday, I believe, the 23rd August, I last went to the shop to pay three half-crowns and requested the drawers to be sent home—another pair was sent in the place of the ones I bought and I told the boy to take them back—I went to the shop and asked the prisoner what he meant by swindling me out of my drawers, and he said "You"—I asked him for the bill and he told me he would not give it—I asked him where were the drawers I purchased and he stated that he had sold them to another customer and if I did not like to take the ones sent I should have nothing at all; he had my money and he would swindle me out of the lot—I asked several times for the bill, which he refused to give me—I then fetched a policeman who asked prisoner for the bill and he threw it at me—I saw the 7s. 6d. was not put down on the bill, he eventually put it down and I had the bill—I afterwards went to the Magistrate.

Cross-examined. My husband is a foreman—I was not living at the same place when I made last payment as the time I made the first—my lodgings were not very small, betwixt and between—I saw a dark young man and nobody else when I went to the shop on Monday, the 31st—he received my 2s. and made no entry, he gave me a paper—I had the opportunity of choosing a chest of drawers—the knobs of the drawers were not like this (produced)—I pledge my oath they were cut out in the centre, turned knobs—I never saw the drawers afterwards until they were brought home to me—the time that elapsed between my first and last payment was three months—after the wrong drawers had been sent I returned to the shop, I saw a a young man first and then the defendant, Mr. Vale—I did not charge him with swindling me, but Mr. Vale—I was not abusive and did not attempt to strike him—there was a crowd outside—I know Davis and remember his being present on that occasion, he spoke to me—I have never seen the dark young man since the first occasion of going to the shop—I never said at the police-court that defendant was the man who served me with the drawers—I noticed nothing peculiar in the drawers—I might have said before the Magistrate that the top was the depth of my hand.

ELLEN GERRARD . I live at 58, Swarm Street, Trinity Street, Borough—I am a single woman—I remember going at the end of May, with my friend, Mrs. Cutting, to the defendant's shop—I saw a dark young man—I did not see the defendant there; I only went to the shop once—he gave Mrs. Cutting a piece of paper—there was no printing n it—I am prepared to say no entry was made in any book—the chest of drawers were of dark colour, rather thick at the top.

Cross-examined. Mrs. Cutting and I had talked the matter over several times previously to going to the shop—I did say at the Court I did not particularly notice the paper, and that the young man was dark.

WILLIAM CHEESEMAN (Policeman M 210). I was on duty on Monday, the 23rd August opposite the defendant's shop—Mrs. Cutting fetched me across, and I heard her say she had paid the defendant 7s. 6d., the last instalment for a chest of drawers, and that he had sent her an entirely different chest to that she selected—the defendant said he had done no such thing, and asked me take Mrs. Cutting into custody for creating a disturbance, which of course I refused to do—I heard the defendant say to Mrs. Cutting "I have your receipt, money, and the drawers."

Cross-examined. A number of persons had congregated outside the shop—Mrs. Cutting was a little excited, but she never made use of any strong language.

HERBERT SAFFORD . I am chief clerk at the Southwark police-court—I was present on the 1st September at the examination of the witnesses, and took a note of the evidence—this (produced) is a correct copy. (This being read slated that the prisoner had personally sold the chest of drawers to Cutting on 30th May, 1875, that the entry was made in the book at the time of the sale, and that he delivered to her a counterfoil from the book containing an entry of the sale). In his evidence the defendant referred to this book (produced) and stated that an entery was made at the time he sold the drawers.

Cross-examined. Mr. Benson, I am bound to say, puts his questions rapidly—he put his questions in a leading form, and the defendant replied "Yes."

Witnesses for the Defence.

EDWARD CHASE . I have been in the defendant's employment about two month—he has shown me the different goods, and in the warehouse there is a lot of what we call "the paying off goods," meaning goods purchased by instalments—I saw Mrs. Cutting's name on the chest of drawers she purchased, and marked paid 2s—we keep a day book, and when any transaction occurs, an entry is made of it—this is the defendant's handwriting (referring to an entry, the 31st May)—we do not put the customer's names down in the book, but merely the payment and the article—the value of the drawers is 28s., and the selling price 2l.—I have never seen a chest of drawers of the thickness described—the complainant made use of some very strong language on the day of the disturbance, calling out "you swindler," "big thief," and several other inappropriate names, and she was in a very excited state—neither the defendant nor I said "Now we have got the drawers, the money, and the invoice, and will stick to the lot.

ROBERT HASSALL . I am landlord of the Prince of Orange, Dockhead—I am a friend of the prisoner, and in the habit of visiting him—on the day Mrs. Cutting selected the chest of drawers, I was present, and knowing a little about the business, I noticed a peculiarity in the make—the bottom drawer was deeper at the one end than at the other—the drawers were also

marked with Mrs. Cutting's name, and "paid 2s."—I saw the defendant make an entry of the transaction in a book—I have reason to remember the circumstance more particularly, because I had the misfortune to get my pipe broken.

Cross-examined. I did say, before the Magistrate, that I should not like to swear to Mrs. Cutting, and that there were two women in the shop—I saw the defendant make an entry in a long book—I did not actually see the money pass—I have reason to remember the transaction owing to my pipe being broken—I have not had it mended because I generally take two or three at the time and get them repaired together at a reduction in cost—the way in which I came to be a witness in this case was through a conver-sation with the defendant some time after the transaction, when I mentioned the fact of breaking my pipe, and he at once brought it to his recollection and told me to say what I knew at the police-court—he did not mention the circumstance again until I had been in his company for an hour.

MRS. NEWLAND. I live at 44, Albany Street, Walworth, I have been a customer of the defendant, about three years—in June last, I bought a marble washstand—no other young man was in the shop but Mr. Vale he took out a book similar to this (produced), when I made the purchase, and gave me a counterfoil which is in the same state now as when I received it.

JOHN LOCKET . I am a French polisher, and polished the drawers in question—I delivered them on the 29th May.

GEORGE DEVESON . I was in the service of the defendant until the 24th December, 1874—the man who succeeded me was fair, and by the name of Lee—when I was waiting in the precincts of the Court of Tuesday last, I heard Mrs. Cutting, or her friend say "That's the man"—Mr. Hassall and I were coming in at the time.

----DAVIS. I live in a road leading to the Borough Road—on 23rd August, in the evening, I was passing Mr. Vale's shop and saw the prosecutrix in a very excited state and abusing the shopman—she made use of bad language and seized him by the throat—I pushed her one side and told her not to assault him or she would get herself in trouble—some time after wards Vale came out and he spoke to the constable, but I did not hear him say anything to her—the prosecutrix called the youngman a swindler, not Vale—Vale did not say "I have got your bill, your money and the drawers, and I intended to stick to them," nor anything of the kind—I was near enough to hear anything Vale may have said.

The Prisoner received a good character.


Recommended to mercy— Two Months' Imprisonment and to pay a fine of 25l.

Reference Number: t18750920-553

553. GEORGE MAY (57), was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MR. STRAIGHT conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLBY the Defence.

AGNES EVERLEIGH . I live at 10, Benhill Road, Brunswick Square, Camberwell, and am single—in January, 1874, I was employed at a restaurant, where I made the acquaintance of the prisoner's wife—they were occupying a house, No. 3, Dane's Road, Denmark, Street Camberwell—at the end of January I hired two rooms of them, a parlour on the ground-floor, and a back bed-room upstairs—the parlour was unfurnished, the bed-room was furnished—I was to pay 6s. a week—the prisoner let me have the use I of the furniture in the bed-room; I furnished the parlour—I bought a carpet at Layman's, in the Borough, for which I paid 2l. 19s. 6d.—I after

wards went with the prisoner to Mr. Bourne's furniture shop, where I bought a couch, an easy chair, six chairs, a table, some stair carpet, oil cloth, and a rug—the prisoner's wife was with us also—the prisoner also bought a bedstead and a palliasse—Mr. Bourne asked the prisoner if he should make out two receipts—he said "No, one will do"—Bourne said "What name?" and the prisoner said "May"—I paid for all but the bed-stead and palliasse; I am positive of that—the prisoner paid for that all bat a shilling—he had not sufficient to pay—it was rather more for the bedstead than he expected, and he asked me to lend him a shilling, which I did—the things were sent home and put into my parlour—the prisoner never claimed ownership to these things until my return from seeing my sister—I asked him to buy a chimney glass, and gave him 2l. 2s. to pay for it, and also the money to pay for a timepiece—I also bought a pair of vases and a jug which were in my room—in April, 1874, I changed my bed-room for a larger room, for which I was to pay another 1s. a week—the furniture was not lent me then; that belonged to me—a gentleman named Martin bought it for me—in May, this year, I owed 3l. 14s. for rent, and on the 24th I paid 2l. 13s. 1d., and ultimately a claim was made against me for rent up to the 12th August of a balance of 7l. 18s.—he seized my furniture in the bed-room, when I consulted Mr. Fullagar, my present solicitor, and I went with him to the prisoner—Mr. Fullagar went to see what it was that May claimed, and he said if the rent was paid he would give the goods up, and the goods in the bed-room he would give up on receiving a letter from Mr. Martin—Mr. Martin has been on intimate terms with me—May did not say one single word at that time about the goods in the parlour belonging to him—I had a receipt of Bourne when I bought the goods, and also a receipt for the timepiece and looking-glass—it was in September, 1874, that I went away to see my sick sister—I then left the receipts locked up in a small work-box in the cupboard in the parlour; the cupboard was not locked—I came back in January, and the receipts were then gone—the work-box was there; it had been forced open—they were produced by the prisoner's advocate before the Magistrate—I never gave him authority to take the receipts—I afterwards attended before the Magistrate and gave my evidence, and got my goods.

Cross-examined. I acted as barmaid at the restaurant in Token house Yard in 1873 and 4—I was on very good terms with the prisoner's wife—she was in the kitchen department—Mr. Fullagar represented me when I was before the Magistrate—the solicitor who appeared for the prisoner was a little the worse for liquor; he was very obtuse and stupid—at the time Mr. Lushington made the order for the goods to be delivered up, he put Mr. Fullagar into the witness-box to prove the perjury against the prisoner, and ordered the latter into custody there and then—it was the act of the Magistrate—when I first went to live at the prisoner's house, I had a smaller bedroom, a back room upstairs—I knew Mr. Martin then—I did not buy wedding dresses and go away to be married—I did not say so—the baby was born in January, 1875—I did not wear a wedding ring—that is the truth—Mr. Martin did not pass as my husband—he bought a lot of goods from Maples, to put into the bedroom I occupied—that was for my confinement—I don't know that Maples got back their property because they were not paid for—I don't know where Mr. Martin is—I know now he is a married man—I did not buy a wedding outfit, or represent that I was going away to marry Mr. Martin, or come back and say that I had married him—when

May reproached Mr. Martin as a married man for having connection with me, it was because I showed Mr. Martin my bill, and he said I had been overcharged and he would not pay a farthing—the rent for the small room was 6s. a week—I changed to a larger room, and Mr. Martin used to come and visit me—I never deceived Mrs. May—Mr. May never said anything to me about it—before I went to them I was going to advertise for a room" and Mr. May said "We shall be obliged to make a. change on account of my Bon; we want a larger house, would you like a room or two?" it was not arranged that they were to provide the furniture and I was to select it according to my own taste—the son was not with us at Bourne's—I do not know that the prisoner borrowed 6l. 12s. from a person named Pilkington to buy the furniture at Bourne's; it is not the fact that he purchased 8l. worth at Bourne's, and that I said I had some money to make up—Bourne was making out the bill when I put the money down; it was not 30s. that I put down—I think he bought a pair of curtains for 18s. 6d.—the bedstead and palliasse were for the son's room; the curtains were for my room, where they were put up—I only claimed what belonged to me—I selected all but the bedstead and palliasse—Bourne suggested that we should have two bills, and May said "No, one will do"—after this I wanted a chimney-glass bought; I claimed that—I gave the money to the son to pay for the time-piece, 1l. 12s.; the money for the time-piece and chimney-glass was my own—I cannot say exactly the date that Mr. Martin last called; not after May of this year—the furniture for the larger room was sent in from Maples'—when I left the lodgings, I was staying at my brother's for a little while—Maples' goods are at Mr. Lloyd's now—they are not Maples' goods; they were given me by Mr. Martin—I know nothing of any claim by Maples—they have not been to me.

Re-examined. Mr. Martin seduced me, and the result was that a child was born in January—it was in April, 1874, that I took the larger bed room—Mr. Martin gave me the furniture for my confinement, and, as far as I know, it is now in the hands of Mr. Lloyd, who is a broker, who was entitled to recover all my furniture for me—I believe it was in the latter part of April or beginning of May of the present year that Mr. Martin spoke of the overcharge made by the prisoner—until then no observation was made by prisoner about Mr. Martin coming to the house—I never attempted to deceive the prisoner or his wife into believing that I was a married woman.

WILLIAM BOURNE . I carry on business at 198, Camberwell Road, and have a large business in general furnishing—I remember the prisoner and Miss Eversleigh coming to my shop—the date is not on this paper—it was the 17th January, 1874—I have my book to prove it—by looking at this bill my memory goes back to the transaction perfectly well—Miss Eversleigh purchased the bulk of goods entered on this invoice—there was a bedstead and palliasse purchased by the prisoner—Miss Eversleigh paid for the goods, with the exception of those two items—there was a remark made about Mr. May wanting a bedstead, and Miss Eversleigh offered to lend him an amount—I cannot say how much, whether 1s. or 5s.—I saw some money pass between them—I asked if both transactions should be put into one bill, and they said "Oh, yes, Mr. Bourne, it makes no differrence," and as Miss Eversleigh was standing by I thought it didn't matter, though I don't usually do transactions in that manner—I made out the bill as it now stands—the total amount was 9l. 14s.—I next asked "Where hall I send these goods to 1l"—May said "Mr. May's, 3, Dane's Road"

and Miss Eversleigh was standing by, I thought it would make no difference sending the goods to Mr. May, if I put "Mr. May" on the bill.

Cross-examined. I was asked to be a witness when the question of detaining the goods was before Mr. Lushington—I think it was about the first week in August that Miss Eversleigh applied to me asking for another bill—there was a party with them when the goods were bought—who it was I don't know—three parties altogether. (Alfred May was called in). I do not think I have ever seen that lad before—I did not give him 6d. to my knowledge that night—he had nothing to do with the purchase, and no gratuity was given him—there was something said about Miss Eversleigh going to live with, them—she selected the articles that were to be used in her room—the curtains are scratched out in my book as not had—they were purchased, and afterwards drawn through—I see the curtains are required to make up the 9l.—I certainly must admit that I didn't know the curtains were in here—if my book is allowed to be produced, it will be found that they are scratched through—I never knew Kiss Eversleigh before she came to my shop on this occasion—I saw nothing of her between January, 1874. and August, 1875, when she applied to me for a second bill—I never saw Mr. Martin till I saw him in Court in my life—who is Mr. Martin? (The witness' book was produced, and referred to by him, and handed to the Court).

COURT. Q. I see that through the curtains (18s. 6d.) a red line is drawn. Whether that 18s. 6d. included in the account can be determined by casting it up. Can you tell by looking at it?

Witness. I understood at the time they would leave the curtains—whether they were run through and they had them afterwards I can't say—they may have done that—they paid me gold and silver only—I could not swear how much of each—I will not say how much money was produced from the pocket of the prisoner—I know the greater bulk came from Miss Eversleigh—I am positive—the money was handed from off the table to my desk by the hand of May, but it came from Miss Everleigh's purse.

Re-examined. I saw Miss Eversleigh with a purse—I will not swear to the coins.

GEORGE ADOLPHUS BIRD . I am second clerk at the Lambeth police-court, and it is my duty on the hearing of summonses to take notes of the evidence of the witnesses as they are called—I have the notes taken on the hearing of a complaint by Miss Eversleigh against the prisoner—it was heard before the Magistrate on two distinct occasions—on the 26th August and 2nd September—the prisoner attended on both hearings, and he was examined as a witness on the second occasion—the summons was for detain ing—it was produced.

WALTER HORNE FULLAGER . I have a copy of the summons in this matter—that is a copy attached to the brief, and I have another copy here—I have given notice to produce it—I am a solicitor carrying on business in Lower Kennington Lane, and acted for Miss Eversleigh in the matter of the summons against the prisoner, and-appeared for her at the police-court—I served the prisoner to-day with a notice to produce the summons that was served upon him—the original summons is never served—that is laid before the Magistrate.

GEORGE ADOLPHUS BIRD (re-called). I was present and saw this summons—the original summonses are thrown away, destroyed (copy summons admitted)—on the first occasion the complainant was examined and gave

her evidence, and was recalled on the second occasion, and the prisoner was examined as a witness after a defence had been made for him. (Witness here read the evidence of the prisoner taken before Mr. Lushington at Lambeth) The Magistrate made an order directing the delivery up of the goods, and ordered the prosecution of the prisoner—he was represented by an advocate—the prisoner appeared to be sober when in the box.

Cross-examined. These documents attached to the depositions I believe are the three accounts produced by the prisoner to show that the property belonged to him—at that time I had no idea that a charge of per jury would be made—I have been a clerk at the police-court for eight years—I have never seen a Magistrate put a man into the dock for perjury on the spot—Mr. Lushington ordered the prisoner into custody—his advocate was incapable at the time.

Re-examined. Mr. Lushington ordered the prisoner into the custody of one of the constables at once.

CHARLES JOHN LLOYD . I live at 54, Paradise Street, Lambeth, and am a broker—on the 13th of last August I was sent by Miss Eversleigh to defendant's house for some furniture—I paid him 5l. 4s. 5d. claimed for rent, and took his receipt—he claimed more—I had a receipt and showed him there was only that amount due—I did not attempt to remove any thing—I asked for delivery of the goods—I brought what they gave me away, viz., some goods out of the bedroom—Miss Eversleigh not being pre sent I didn't know the goods, and their broker gave me those goods, and when I asked for goods according to my list they would not give them me—they gave me goods that were not on my list—this is the list (produced) couch, chairs, table, rug, and 8 yards stair carpet, &c,—the prisoner said "I shall not give you them, they are my property."

WALTER HORNE FULLAGAR (re-called). I was present in Court, when the summons was heard, and I heard the defendant sworn—I had prior to the taking out of the summons (viz., on the 12th August) been consulted by Miss Eversleigh, and I remember going with her down to the house and seeing the defendant—on the evening of the 12th August, I saw the defendant and said "I have come down with regard to your claim against Miss Eversleigh for rent; I want to know what the amount is that you claim, and what you have distrained all her goods for"—he said "My claim up to the present time is 7l. 18s."—I then held in my hand a little invoice that Mr. Bourne had given to Miss Eversleigh, and I said to him "Well, here are goods in this invoice of Mr. Bourne's to the value of between 7l. and 8l., and Miss Eversleigh tells me that the remainder of the goods amount to about 30l. more; supposing 7l. 18s. to be really due, you detain goods to the value of 40l.?"—he said "The goods in the bedroom belong to Mr. Martin, and I shall not let them go, but Miss Eversleigh may have the other things as soon as my rent is paid"—he had not then said a word about the things in the parlour being his property—I merely said "I shall send a man down to-morrow with a van, and with the money to pay you all the rent that is due to you, and it will be at your peril if you detain any of the goods in the two rooms occupied by Miss Eversleigh, whoever they belong to; she was your lodger and you have distrained those goods, and it will be at your peril if you detain a single article after the rent is paid"—he made the remark that he would not part with Mr. Martin's goods unless he received a letter from him authorising him to do so—that is all that passed—I afterwards found a receipt reducing his claim from 7l.18s. to 5l. is. 5d.

Cross-examined. He knew I was a solicitor—I have not troubled to ascertain whether Mr. Martin paid Maples' bill—Lloyd has got some goods—I don't know anything about them—there may be anything amongst them for ought I know—I have been in practice as a solicitor since 1847—I served as an articled clerk—with regard to a Magistrate sending a man into immediately on the hearing of the summons, illegal detention of goods would be a quasi criminal offence—I cannot take upon myself to say that I have never heard a Magistrate order a man into the dock—Mr. Lushington does not usually sit in that Court.

AGNES EVERSLEIGH (re-called) I have seen the articles in the possession of Lloyd—he still has them and amongst are some of the goods that I bought of Bourne—a couch, half-dozen chairs, an easy chair, chimney glass, timepiece, and oil cloth—he is holding them for me—besides the goods in the bedroom, and the parlour belonging to me, there was the oil cloth in the passage—the value of the goods in the bedroom was 30l.

Cross-examined. The goods in the large bed-room I speak of were the goods for the room for which I paid the extra 1s. a week, and which were had from Maples—of these articles the kettle and saucepan were not mine—the carpet was not from Maples—the articles were delivered up to Lloyd, my agent, after the distress was made, and after the payment of the money, viz, chair, table, swing glass, marble-top stand and set of fittings, japanned toilet set, towel horse, kettle and saucepan, carpet and hearthrug, five I glasses, water bottle and tooth glass, mahogany chest of drawers, and four I cane-seated chairs.

Witness for the Defence.

ALFRED MAY . The prisoner is my father—I am sixteen years of age—I recollect Agnes Eversleigh coming to live at our place in January, 1874—I remember her speaking of her marriage—I recollect in January going to Mr. Bourne's shop with my father, mother, and Miss Eversleigh, who had only just come there—the bed-room was not then furnished—my father, bought some furniture on our going to Bourne's, viz., a couch, table, chairs, bedstead, and other things—I think only the bedstead went into my room—father took the other things—the palliasse went into my room—some went into my mother's room—the curtains went into Miss Eversleigh's room—I cannot remember what articles went into my mother's room—my father produced the money to pay for them—he had not got quite enough, and said "I shall not be able to pay for all the things now," and Miss Eversleigh said "I have got some more money," and she pulled out two pieces of gold—I cannot say whether they were half sovereigns or sovereigns, and placed them father's hand, and he gave the money to Mr. Bourne—she did not produce more than two golden coins on that occasion—6d. was given to me by Mr. Bourne for showing the man where to take the goods to—I am sure he gave me 6d.

Cross-examined. When Miss Eversleigh came back in 1875, she said she was married, and then there was a dispute about it—in 1874 and 1875 there was a dispute—I was not called before the Magistrate on the summons.

Re-examined. There were two occasions on which there was a dispute—the last was in 1875.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-554

554. RICHARD TODD (27), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully having counterfeit coin in his possession, with intent to utter it— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-555

555. ANN TAYLOR (19) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN BOSTELL . I live at 21, West Street, Borough, and am assistant to Mr. Thomas Leech, a confectioner, at 11, New Gut—on 3rd September the prisoner came there about 11.30 a.m., and asked for 1d. worth of pine apple rock—she gave me a shilling in payment, and I gave her 11d. change, and she left—I put the shilling in the till; there was no other silver there—the prisoner came in again about 3.30—I had not pat any other shilling in the till in the meantime, and no one else had been serving but me—she asked for a 1d. worth of French almond rock; I served her—she gave me a shilling—I said "I think this is bad"—I tried it and bent it—she said "Oh, I see it is bad"—I went and called a policeman, and gave her into custody—I then went to the till and examined the first shilling and found it was bad—I said "This is the shilling you gave me this morning"—she said "No, I never gave you a shilling"—l am positive she is the woman who gave me the shilling in the morning—I gave the two shillings to the constable.

GEORGE PIKE (Policeman L 95). On 3rd September I went to Mr. Leech's shop in New Cut—the prisoner was given into my custody, and I received 2s. from Miss Bostell.

ELIZA RUMBOLD . I searched the prisoner at the station and found two parcels of sweetstuff, 2 1/2 d., and a purse containing a ticket.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to Her Majesty's Mint both these shillings are bad.

GUILTY .— Nine Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18750920-556

556. JOHN BAXTER (20), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully conspiring with other persons to defraud David Jones of divers goods— Two Years' Imprisonment. And

Reference Number: t18750920-557

557. ELIZABETH HALL (19) , to unlawfully endeavouring to conceal the birth of her child— Judgment respited. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Case omitted from Third Court, Wednesday—Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18750920-558

558. PETER DUNN (24), PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully and indecently assaulting Kate Couchman — To enter into recognisance in 50l. to come up for Judgment when called upon.


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