CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT
SEVENTH SESSION, HELD MAY 3RD, 1875.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND, BY
Short-hand Writers to the Court,
ROLLS CHAMBERS, No. 89, CHANCERY LANE.
SESSIONS VII. TO XII
THE POINTS OF LAW AND PRACTICE
REVISED AND EDITED, BY
OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BARRISTER-AT-LAW.
STEVENS & SONS, 119, CHANCERY LANE.
On the Queen's Commission of
OYER AND TERMINER AND GAOL DELIVERY
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, May 3rd, 1875, and following days,
BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. DAVID HENRY STONE, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; The Hon. Sir ANTHONY CLEASBY , Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; The Hon. Sir THOMAS DICKSON ARCHIBALD , Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS, Esq., Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN , Knt., ROBERT BESLEY , Esq., and Sir JAMES CLARKE LAWRENCE BART ., M.P., Aldermen of the said City; the Right Hon. RUSSELL GURNEY , Q.C., M.P., Recorder of the said City; Sir CHARLES WHETHAM, Knt., JAMES FIGGINS , Esq., and HENRY EDMUND KNIGHT , Esq., other of the Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
JOHN WHITTAKER ELLIS Esq., Alderman.
WILLIAM TIMBRELL ELLIOTT, Esq.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
STONE, MAYOR. SEVENTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, May, 3rd, 1875.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MESSRS. POLAND and MEAD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.
HERBERT CORNISH POOLE . I am in the service of the London General omnibus Company—I live at 79, Star Street, Edgware Road—I am a Tafton man—I came up to London in December last for the purpose of getting employment, and I was taken into the London General Omnibus company's service in January, and first conducted the FU omnibus on Saturday, 9th January—I have my book here in which I kept an account—on the 11th and 13th I conducted a different omnibus—those were the only times that I had conducted an omnibus in London before the 14th January—on Thursday morning, 14th January, I was at the company's office in the Edgware Read; I got there about 8 o'clock in the morning—I saw the district road manager, Mr. Wild, and I afterwards saw the prisoner Murphy—I had never seen him before—he came to the office just before 9 o'clock—he asked Mr. Wild for a rest—Mr. Wild said "You are frequently wanting rests," and he said he wanted to go to some place particularly—Mr. Wild told me to go on his bus for one day, and he was to show me what to do—I went out of the office with Murphy and I went with him to Paddington Green to the King and Queen, public-house, where the stables were—on the way there Murphy said "Are you a new man"—I said I was and had come from Taunton—he said it was lucky he had seen me, he would show me how to manage about the takings—he said that 4s. a day was not much for a man, it was not sufficient to find a man in lush, and he said I should have to give his driver a dollar a day; he said he did—I said "So much as that" he said "Yes, you can do it very well; you can have four or five hog or bob" (I don't know which he said) "a day for yourself"—then he said he would give me his book to show me what he paid in as
his takings, and I was to take that as a guide—this (produced) is the book and he said I could refer to it each journey to see what he took, and I was to give it again to his driver at night, and whatever I did I was not to pay in any more than he did, if anything, less; being a new man, he said, they would not take any notice of it—the book was shut when he gave it to me, and no part of it was referred to—I don't recollect that anything further was said about it—when we got to the King and Queen he gave me my time-bills—there were eight time tills and the total bill which were then in blank—he gave me the times of the first two journies, which I wrote down myself—he told me what to put down—he then said "The bus has come round I will make the driver make out the other times for you"—Bridegroom was the driver of the bus—Murphy told me that I could get any fares between the Lonsdale and the office, as there was no one about there, and I was to take a little out of each fare, and the last journey I was to look and if I saw any old fogey sitting in the corner I was to take stock of him over the door, and if I saw him looking up at the bill mind him, but not to be too timid, as a great many people looked out of curiosity—the omnibus came out—Bridegroom was driving and Murphy got up on the bus by his side and he told me to get up on the other side of the driver, that was when the omnibus came from the King and Queen—I said I would get up behind—I had all the way bills and the book with me—I had not seen what was in the book—I was not aware then that the times were entered in that book—the omnibus went to the Earl Lonsdale, Portobello Road; as we passed the Royal Oak, Murphy called me to come in front to the driver over the roof, but I refused—I said I was going to put in my journey bill, and I got inside and put my journey bill in—when we got to the Earl Lonsdale, which is the starting point, Murphy got down—he said I was to mind what he told me, he had made it all right with the driver and that he would get me a lot of people and we were to mind and take care of ourselves and do as he told me—he told me to mind and give the driver the book in the night—Murphy then went away and I did not see him after that—he said the fares were all right between the Royal Oak and the office because there was no one there—I said "There is a time-keeper at the Royal Oak," and he said "He is nothing, he is nobody"—that was all that passed between us—on the first journey Bridegroom drove properly, and as I received the fares I made the marks on the way-bill—when I had a 2d. fare I marked it in that line, and so on—we started the first journey at 9.41 and. returned from Charing Cross at 10.38—on my return 1 went into the Earl Lonsdale to add up the amount I had returned, but previously to that I had called at the office on the way down and made a complaint to Mr. Wild and 1 arranged to see him later in the day—I went into the Earl Lonsdale after the first journey and began to make up my way bill—Bridegroom came in, and, looking over me, he saw 8s. 2 d. which was the total of the first journey—he said "D----my eyes, 8s. 2d."—I said "Yes"—he asked how much I had kept back—I told him not anything—he said "Why, the other man never paid in as much as that"—he asked me to give him the book, and I took the book out of my pocket and gave it to him—he referred back to some of the previous days and compared my first journey with his first journies, and he said "He has never hardly paid in so much money as that"—I told him I had taken the 8s. 2d.—I had made a penny mistake in putting down, on that journey—I had made a stroke in the penny line, and Bridegroom asked me
the meaning of that—I told him a lady had paid me 3d. and I put it down to the 1d. fare, and I had put the penny down there so as to explain at the office—he said I was a b----fool, they would not have known anything about it, but as I had done it it ought to be put down as an excess fare, and he wrote that himself against it—he said if I did not keep back some for him he was not going to get passengers, he was not going to work for six bob a day, and it was no good for him to get passengers if I gave it all to them—some man came and called him outside; he came back again and said "You are the man who was on the FU" and I said "Yes"—he said "Well, you won't get any 10s. fares here on this one"—the FU was the omnibus 1 had been on the previous Saturday and I had taken 10s. 11d. one journey and had returned it properly—the second journey he drove very badly—if he saw an empty bus in front he would keep behind it, and if the bus was full he would get in front of it till he met another, and if I rang for him he would not stop, but for all the passengers I did carry I made the entries on the way-bill and at the end of the journey I had taken 6s. 6d.—I went into the Earl Lonsdale to make up the way-bill—Bridegroom came in and looked over my bill and he said "You haven't got so much now"—I said "No"—he said he was not going to get a lot of people if I was giving it to them—I spoke to him about the driving and said if he did it again I should report him—I told him I had rung for him and he did not pull up, and he said he did not hear me ring—I said "You must have heard, because I hallowed as well"—I asked him to make out my time-bills for me for the other journies and I gave him the six bills for the remaining six journies—he made out one and gave them all back to me—I said "Make them all out for me now," and he said "No, I shall make them out at the end of each journey"—he wrote all that way-bill, but my figures, the time and "Earl Lonsdale to Charing Cross," and "Bridegroom" and "Poole" as the driver and conductor—I had written the first two—on the third journey I picked up two ladies just at the Earl Lonsdale—before they got in they told me to put them down at a shop in Westbound Grove—I told them I did not know it, but if they told me when they arrived I would put them down—Bridegroom said "I know where it is, I will pull up all right"—the ladies got in, and got out at that place—when they got in he called me up to him on the top of the bus—he said "Have those, they won't know anything about it"—I told him I should not, and I got back on the step again—when they got out they paid me and I put down the fares—the prisoner asked me if I bad put them down—I said "Yes, I have"—he started off very furiously and then he either drove very fast or very slow, which prevented me from getting passengers properly—at the end of that journey I went into the Earl Lonsdale to make up the way-bill, and I had only earned 5s. 3d.—Bridegroom came in and said 1 had not taken so much—I said "No"—he said "Well, I ain't going to get them unless you like to keep back some for ourselves"—I told him I should not do it—he said "Well, I can get as many as any man on the road"—I said "Let me see how much you can get next time"—he made out the bill for the next journey—I wanted him to make out the whole, but he would not—he entered the times and the names at the bottom—he drove very well the fourth journey, and I took 9s. 1d.—I went to the Earl Lousdale to make out the bill as before and he said then he could get as many passengers as anyone on the road, but he was not going to work for six bob a day—I had made out a part of that time-bill and he took it out of my hands and put in 1s. 8d. and seventeen passengers and the 4s. 6d.—the rest
is in my own writing—he made out my time-bill for the fifth journey—I got 10s. 5d. that journey—he drove properly—during that journey I saw Mr. Wild at Regent Circus—I made a complaint to him—I filled up my bill of that journey at the Earl Lonsdale, and while I was there Bridegroom came in—there were about half a dozen other people there, conductors and men who had to do with the horses—Bridegroom made up some of this bill for the fifth journey, his figures are nineteen passengers and 4s. 5d., and the total 10s. 5d.—that is the total of the two ways—he called the men's attention to the figures in the book, 8s. 2d., 9s. 1d., 10s. 5d., and he said "You will get all the b----lot of the men sacked, you will get them all down on you"—I told him if he took my book again I should report him for it—he entered 8s. 1d. and 9s. 1d. in my book—before he touched the bills I had entered the full amount of passengers carried in the lines and he added it up—one of the men said I ought to be swamped, and another said I should find myself down Houndsditch one morning—Bridegroom said he would take good care I should not get so many passengers again—he said "I don't believe you have taken so much money"—I said I had—he asked me if I knew how much I had in the morning when I came out—I said "Yes, 7s. 6d."—he told me to take my money out and count it—I did so, and found I was 15d. short—he said "There, you see you are 15d. short, I knew d----well you had not taken the money"—I said "There is my dinner and beer, and that"—I reckoned that that came to 15d. and made it right—I satisfied myself the money was right—he made out the bill for the sixth journey—he drove very badly that time—I believe it was that journey that a gentleman gave me a parcel and sixpence, and told me I was to take it to a place in Westbound Grove—I said 1 did not know where it was—Bridegroom said "I know where it is," and the gentleman gave the sixpence and the parcel to him—he pulled up at the shop, 119, Westbound Grove, and I took in the parcel—when we arrived at the Earl Lonsdale, I asked Bridegroom for the money for the parcel—(I had taken 5s. 5d. that journey, without the parcel)—he said it was not b----likely, and he should keep it for himself—I told him I should enter it to him, and he said, he would give me 3d. and keep 3d. himself—I said "No, I shall have the whole of the sixpence"—he threw it down on the floor, and told me to take the b----sixpence—I picked it up—this is the way-bill—there is no line for parcels, but I made an entry of the parcel on my total-bill—I called at the office to learn how to eater it, and I afterwards put it on the total-bill—I asked Bridegroom to make out the way-bill for the seventh journey—he said he would see me b----first—I said I would go without them, and then he told me to come in and he would make them out for me, and I went in, and he made out the two for the seventh and eighth journies; the two last journies—before we started he said I should not have so many passengers—I earned 4s. 6d. on the seventh journey but he did not drive properly—before we started on the eighth journey he said "You can keep back some now because there is nobody about"—I told him I should not do so, I would rather throw the place up and should tell Mr. Wild so; and I wanted to—he drove very badly and I earned 4s. 10d.—we did not go back that journey to the Earl Lonsdale—there was only one passenger left at Paddington Station and he got out at Westbourne Grove, and Bridegroom drove to the King and Queen where the stables were—he got down there and told me to go into the house, he would be in in a moment, and I was to give him the other
man's book; but I ran off and went home and took the book with me—the way-bills are put in the letter-box at the office each journey and I have to make a summary of the total day's earnings—they amounted to 2l. 15s. altogether, including the 6d. for the parcel—I entered that on the summary bill with the total amount of the money and sent it in the next morning with the money—I saw Mr. Wild and made a statement to him—the conductor's wages were is a day and the driver's 6s.—I was afterwards employed on one of the omnibuses of the company as odd man—I saw Murphy, I fancy it was the next day; it was within a day or two—I think it was on the 16th—he was on the back of another fats and he called to me for his book—I shook my head at him and he got off and ran after us—I told the driver to drive on as fast as he could so that he did not overtake us—I afterwards saw him at the Earl Lonsdale and he asked me for his book—I told him I had not got it—he said I should not go out of the house until he had it, he would break my b----nose for me if I did not tip it up. and he went and shut the door—my time was close on to go with my bus and 1 told my driver he was to go on with the bus—Bridegroom came up and told him to let me out, and he said "You will get us into a scrape" I think that was on the 17th—Murphy followed me out as I was going from the tap-room and said "Mind I gave you that book to take the time out from and it is a b----pretty trick you are serving me"—I got out to my bus as quick as I could and got off—I was not aware till after I gave up my book to Mr. Wild that the times of the various journies were entered in it—I was shown it at Hammersmith—in the way-bill for the 3.45 journey in the column for the fourpenny fares there is a mark in the second division like two strokes—I carried that out as "two passengers, 8d." and the company afterwards charged me that extra fourpence as if there were three passengers instead of two—I don't remember whether there were three or two, but I was charged with the extra 4d.—on the way-bill for the 5.42 journey I have carried out two twopenny fares as 8d.—that is a mistake against myself.
Cross-examined. I had never seen Murphy before the day I went on this omnibus, and he made this proposal that I was to rob the company—I did not make any further observation about it except what I have mentioned—if I had said anything to him he would have told the others, and they would have killed me; they were down on me before—Murphy gave the book to me before we got to the King and Queen—he did not show me the times, and I did not know they were in the book—Bridegroom wrote down the times for me in the Earl Lonsdale—Murphy said "Here is the bus, I will ask the coachman to make out the other times for you"—he said "I have made it all right with him, he will get you a lot of passengers, take care of yourselves and give him back the book at night," and he went away—I don't know that I said anything to Bridegroom then, because I wanted to wait till I got to the office to be taken off the bus—he said "The other man has told you how to manage about the takings, I am not going to get a b----lot of people if you give it all to them"—I did not make any remark on that—he subsequently told me that I should get all the men the sack—on the fourth journey he said "Don't be a b----fool, I can get a lot of passengers, look out for yourself and me too—you see I can earn as much as any man on the road, but I am not going to work for six heg a day"—I said "Let us see what you can earn the next time"—I did not remonstrate with him, it would not have done for me to have doue so—I had been on other busses.
before—I was taken off Bridegroom's bus at the end of the day—I was only on for one day—I have not tried to find out who the men were who were in the public-house when the statement was made about getting them all the sack—there was no chance of my finding them out—I don't know whether they are still in the company's employment or not—I have been a witness before—I can't say how many times—more than ten times I should think in the market prosecutions; it may have been as many as twenty times—I was charged with perjury about three years ago, but it was a conspiracy got up against me, which the learned judge saw—that was at Taunton—I was committed for trial and the bill was subsequently ignored—it arose out of the market prosecutions—it created a good deal of sensation in Taunton with some parties—the market prosecutions were under an Act of Parliament which the trustees have, that no person should sell or vend or propose to sell any of the commodities mentioned in the Act outside the market unless licensed so to do—I was in the employ of Mr. Brown, the lessee of the market, and it was my duty to inform—it was upon my information that the summonses were granted—I am not aware that I have gone by the name of "Lawyer Poole"; it was "The hedge lawyer "I was asked at Hammersmith and I said "No"—I may have gone by the name of "Lawyer Poole" on account of my grandfather being a lawyer, that is the only reason I can give for it—I was toll collector in the market when I gave this information—I have kept the Robin Hood public-house—I informed against a woman named Betsey Coomes for keeping a brothel next door to me—I was obliged to—she was not a customer of mine—I would not allow her in my house—I had not been in the house twelve months before I informed—I don't think I was there twelve months altogether—I did not take any portion of the penalty—I did not want to take it at all—I did not touch a farthing—the brewer, Mr. Burridge, had a bill of sale on my things, and he took the money—I received the penalty indirectly of course—the 10l. went to Burridge, and I had the benefit of it indirectly—it went to him directly—I took out a pedlar's license to supply small shops with a new thing which came out—I was a shoemaker for five years, but I met with an accident and my arm was injured and I had to give it up—I only used the pedlar's license for a fortnight, I think—I got some tea from Bristol—I sent a post-office order with the order which I gave, and some time after that I got a letter that they had sent on four pounds worth more; I think the amount I paid was 8l. 12s., and I had no chance of knowing whether they had or not because I had sold a part of the tea—I got the tea on Friday night, and I had to get it ready for the market the next day—the market cases were all brought before the Magistrate—I am quite sure the charge of perjury arose out of the Police Court and not out of the County Court—it arose out of an assault on a man named Jarvis; he came and pushed me and I summoned him for the assault—I canvassed for Serjeant Cox, the Conservative candidate—he was afterwards unseated—at the next election I canvassed for Sir Henry James, the Liberal candidate—Serjeant Cox did not contest then—it is true that I said that I was on the Conservative Register—they paid me nothing, so I went over to the other side—I was employed for twenty weeks on the Registration, and after we had finished, of course I expected my money and they only gave me 3l. in place of the 20l. which I was to have—I told them whenever another election came I would do my best against them, and I went to the Conservative Association and told them to strike my name off the book—I received several characters when I went into the
Omnibus Company's service—I was not asked if I had ever been summoned or charged "with any criminal offence that I know of—I say I don't know that I was—I was taken into their employment by my testimonials—I had not to answer a number of questions—I sent in my testimonials to Mr. Church and he sent them to Mr. Dawson, and he put me on in the Edgware Road—I had not to answer any questions as to my previous career or make any declaration in writing to the company—you have to get a certificate from Scotland Yard before you can get a licence; I had to sign a paper there—I don't recollect what it was—I am not aware that I have represented that I have never been charged before a Magistrate or elsewhere with any criminal offence; there is nothing I have signed but what I can explain; if you show me what it is I will try to explain it—I should know my handwriting if I saw it—I have a great doubt in. my own mind that I have made such a representation—if I signed such a thing as that I thought it meant a conviction; there is no need why I should do it—I have not done anything wilfully—I must have thought it meant a conviction and not a charge, because there was no reason why I should have kept it back; it would bear investigation—I am permanently' in the service of the Company now—I was only a casual that day, but a service was given me after—I did not give evidence at the Taunton Election Petition—I did not give Mr. Farrant any information—I received 20l. from him—that was on the Conservative side—they knew they owed me 20l. on the Registration—as to the stroke in the penny line, I did not ask Bridegroom what I was to do as I had made a mistake, and he did not write the stroke in the penny column for me—he asked me what it meant—I told him that a lady gave me 3d., which I put down to the 2d. fare; and I put the penny there so that I could explain at the office; and he said "Now have you done that, put it down as excess fare"—that was on the first journey—the bills were put into the box at the end of each journey—I kept the amounts in a book like this, so as to make up the total at the end of the day—there is nothing on the way-bills to show if a coachman or any one receives a parcel—it does not appear on any document that I have seen—Bridegroom did not say "We always look upon a parcel as a perquisite"—nothing of the kind, he said he should keep the sixpence himself, and then after he offered me 3d.—I insisted upon having the sixpence—I am not confident which journey that was—the parcel business was not after my first interview with Mr. Wild, my first interview with him was about 10 o'clock in the morning, I went and begged him to put another man on—I will swear that I saw Mr. Wild at the office before the parcel business, and the sixpence—I came on the omnibus from the King and Queen to the Lonsdale, with Bridegroom and Murphy; they rode in front and I on the back—the noes upon this paper are in my handwriting—the first question is "Have you ever been convicted of any crime, or charged, or summoned before a Magistrate for any offence"—"No"—I put "No," but it was not intentionally done, I thought it meant a conviction—the next question is "Have you ever been convicted or summoned except for that which you stated in answer to the above question"—I put "No"—I understood that for a conviction; I wrote those two noes, and signed my name to it, I did not know that I was doing wrong or I should not have done such a thing, when I could write to the superintendent of police at Taunton; he has known me for twenty years, and I wrote to him and asked him to get it forwarded as quickly as he could because they told me it would be sent to Taunton—I have seen Forrester,
the man who looks after the omnibuses at the Lonsdale—I solemnly swear that I drove up to the Lonsdale with Bridegroom and Murphy—I know Morgan the waiter at the Lonsdale—I did not come in with my bill and say I had been making a great mistake, putting down 4d. passengers for 2d. ones—I had not done so, and I did not say so—I did not count my money and say first of all it was 1s. 3d. short, and then that it was 5s. 3d. short, and that I had not counted my wages in, which had been paid me—there was not a word said about wages—I never saw Dolling the horse-keeper at the omnibus yard until I saw him at Hammersmith; he was a witness there—I still swear that Murphy rode to the Lonsdale with us.
Re-examined. I filled up the paper that I signed at Scotland Yard, and I had to be very quick, as 1 should have been too late for the post—I had to take it to a gentleman to get it signed so as to be in time for post to send it to Taunton—the first part of the form is not in my writing—my writing is just the "No, no, no," and the last one "Yes" and the signature—I did that at Scotland Yard—Mr. Goldsmith is the Superintendent of Police for Somerset—I wrote down to him and he had to go and see all the gentlemen who signed my references down there, and he had to sign, himself, after that I think—I had testimonials from the leading gentlemen of Taunton and from the Vicar, and they were given to the company—the perjury indictment against me arose out of an assault case—I charged John Jarvis with an assault—he came and pushed me; he was a great, powerful man, and I summoned him for the assault—Mr. Justice Willies was the Judge who charged the Grand Jury in the charge of perjury against me, and the bill was thrown out—he said it was a malicious prosecution—I went to the office during the first journey, and I went again in the afternoon to ask about the parcel—when Murphy made these proposals to me I did not say anything to him, because I had all sorts of things thrown at my head because I had paid in so much money one day—I believe it was 3l. 6s. 5d.
JOSEPH WILD . I am road inspector in the employment of the London General Omnibus Company—I live at 10, Cirencester Street, Paddington—I was at the" office in the Edgware Road on 14th January—Poole came there about 9 o'clock, or a little later, and whilst he was there Murphy came in—he said "Can I rest to-day?"—I said "You are frequently wanting rest"—he said "I want to go somewhere particularly to-day"—I then told Poole, who was in the office, to go for him for the day—I said to Murphy "Instruct him where to go," and they left the office together—I was in the office about 10 o'clock in the morning when the omnibus came down its first journey from the Lonsdale—Poole came in and made a statement to me—he was in rather an excited state—I made arrangements to see him at the Circus in the afternoon—I saw him there at 6 o'clock in the evening—he was standing behind the omnibus then—I saw him again in the morning and he made a further statement to me—he brought the book which has-been produced, with him—I took him to Mr. Trevitt, the superintendent, and he made a statement to him—Poole was first employed by the company on the 9th January, I think.
Cross-examined. Murphy has been in the employment of the company six months—he was recommended to me, and through me he was engaged by the company—Bridegroom has been in the service about four years—I think they were suspended about the 26th January—I think the summonses were on that day, but I can't swear as to that—I believe when they were served with the summonses they did some part of the day and turned the job up in
the evening; they did not finish their day's work—they were taken before the Magistrate and admitted to bail—at the time of this alleged charge Poole was an odd man—he was not in our regular employment; he has been permanently employed by the company since, I believe in various occupations.
H. C. POOLE (Re-called) It was on Monday, the 18th, that I went to the solicitor's to make a statement—I was sent for.
The following Witnesses were called for the Defence:—John* Forrester I live at 5, Colville Square Mews, Notting Hill, and am a shoeblack—I work outside the Lonsdale and am in the habit of cleaning the boots of the drivers and conductors before they start on their journies—I know Murphy—I have cleaned his boots every morning except when it was wet—I never used to clean them then—I remember the 14th January, Murphy did not come that morning to have his boots cleaned as usual—I knew Poole by sight before that morning—I saw him come that morning on Bridegroom's bus to the Lonsdale—he was on the top of the bus; Bridegroom was driving—I knew him before—this was on the first occasion; Murphy was not there, and I said something to Bridegroom—if Murphy had been on the bus when it arrived at the Lonsdale I should have seen him.
Gross-examined I believe it was the 14th January; I am not sure whether it was the 13th or 14th—I can't tell you what day of the week it was—I was examined at the Police Court—Bridegroom spoke to me about it about six weeks after—William Forrester is my father; he is here—he was there at the time the omnibus came up, when Poole was on the top of it—he was on the off side on the knife board talking to Bridegroom—I can't say how long I have cleaned Murphy's boots for him—I was there at 8 o'clock in the morning—I clean for a good many of the men—I had seen Poole two or three days before, I think—I think I had seen him twice before that morning—the first omnibus he went on was FW—I can't say whether that was on a Saturday—the next time I saw him was on Bridegroom's bus I had not seen him on Bridegroom's omnibus before that morning when he came up on the top of it—he had a slight moustache; it was just coming, that was all.
WILLIAM FORRESTER . I live at 5, Colville Square Mews, Notting Hill, and look after the omnibuses at the Lonsdale for the men—I know Poole by sight and I know Murphy—T remember the day that Poole took Murphy's place, but I don't remember the day of the month—he had a very slight moustache, at least, not upon that day he did not; when he was on FW he had a slight moustache—I remember him on the FW bus—I remember when he took Murphy's place; he had no moustache then—I knew Bridegroom—Murphy was not on the bus on the morning that Poole took his place when it came up to the Lonsdale for the first journey.
Cross-examined. I can't tell you the day of the week; it was not a Sunday—I should think it was about Thursday or Friday, but I won't be certain that Murphy rested, because I spoke to the coachman—Poole had not a moustache that day, he had when he was on FW—that was two or three days before, I think—I might have said before the Magistrate that when Poole acted for Murphy he had a moustache; I have made a mistake there—I said "I am sure he had a moustache, because I thought he was a footman out of work," but I wont say that that was on the day he was acting for Murphy—Bridegroom spoke to me about this matter as soon as they got the summons and left the bus—I am stationed near the Lonsdale, and am there
every day—I saw Poole inside the Lonsdale on the day he was acting for Murphy and I saw Bridegroom with him there nearly every journey—I saw them in the coachman's room at the Lonsdale; there were a few words about some money that had been paid for a parcel—there was something about a parcel, I don't know that it was about 6d.—it was about 7.30—I was in the room having dinner and tea together—I did not see. the 6d. thrown on the floor—I don't know what was done with the 6d.—the quarrel was about 6d. and a parcel—I was in the room fifty or sixty times perhaps during the day—I did not hear anything said about Poole getting the menthe sack for having returned so much money—I did not hear that he had been earning a good deal of money that day—the omnibus men employ me—they pay me 2d.: a day—that is all I get my living by—Poole was on the top of the bus talking to the driver when the omnibus came round first—he was on the near side of the bus on the knife-board, talking to the driver over his shoulder.
Re-examined. I saw them counting out money on the table at the time the dispute was going on, and something was said by Poole about the money being short—he said he was 1s. 3d. short, and he put his hand in his pocket and said he was something else short, but I can't tell you what he said, because I walked out of the room—he counted out some more money and said he was 5s. 3d. short—after he said he was 1s. 3d. short he pulled his day's money out of another pocket and put it with the other.
FRANK MORGAN . I live at 32, Penton Place, Pentonville—I was waiter at the Lonsdale—I remember the day Murphy was away and Poole conducted Bridegroom's bus—there is a public room, which is frequented by the drivers and conductors, but there are plenty of mechanics come there as well—it is the only public room in the house—I remember Poole coming in with his bill in his hand that evening between 6 and 7 o'clock as near as I can say—he said he had made a pretty fine mistake this time, he had been putting down fourpences instead of twopences, and he asked his: coachman, Bridegroom, his remedy, and the coachman says "If you have made that mistake you must be the loser of it, that is all"—he said first he; was 1s. 3d. short, and then he counted his money again and he said "Oh, I forgot that they paid me my wages, that is 1s. I put that with it which: makes me 5s. 3d. short"—he said "I will turn the job up to-morrow for I can get plenty of better service"—I did not hear any threat used to Poole in that room or at any other time by any of the drivers or conductors.
Cross-examined. I was potman and waiter there—I am not employed there now—it was the place where the omnibus started—there is a room into which the men come after each journey, and they make up the way bills there—I have known Bridegroom and Murphy during the two months I was there—I can't swear that Bridegroom was in the room after every journey on the day that Poole was acting as conductor—I attended to that room, but I did not wait upon all of them—I bad rough work to do in the morning—I heard the wrangling about the money being 1s. 3d. short—I was waiting in the room for orders, and Poole came in with his way-bill in; his hand and said "I have made a pretty fine mess this time, I have been putting down fourpences instead of twopences"—that was what called my attention—I was there all the time they were there—I did not hear Bridegroom say "There now I told you you had not earned so much," and Poole, did not say he had spent 1s. 3d. in his dinner, tobacco, and lights—I heard nothing of that kind—Bridegroom spoke to me about giving evidence before the Magistrate the day after the summons—I don't know whether Poole
had a moustache, if he had one it was a very slight one—I think it was on a Thursday that this took place, but I could not swear.
Re-examined. It was on the day that Murphy rested, as for the day of the week I can't say.
By the Court. Poole did not say how many fourpences he had pot down wrong—at first he said he was 1s. 3d. short, he counted it again and then he said "I forgot they have paid me my wages," and he left the room with the impression that he was 5s. 3d. short.
CHARLES DOLLING . I live at 4, Hall Place, Paddington—I am horse-keeper to the Omnibus Company at the King and Queen—I was there on 13th January—Poole conducted Bridegroom's bus that morning—I saw it leave the yard; Poole went away with it; Bridegroom was driving—Murphy stopped behind talking after the bus was gone—I am quite sure of that.
Cross-examined. The drivers give me 9d. a day—I have known Bridegroom since he drove my bus; about a year I should think—it was on a. Thursday I think when Poole was conductor—Murphy spoke to me about giving evidence about a week after it happened—I think Poole had got a bit of a moustache—I first saw him when he went away from the yard with the bus—I did not see him come there—Murphy was talking to me down the yard—Poole came with him—I saw them together before the bus started—I don't know how long they were there—I did not see them go into the King and Queen; I was down the yard.
JOHN FORRESTER (re-called). I had seen Poole on the FW bus before the day he was on Bridegroom's bus—he asked me then to show him how to make out his way-bill, end I showed him how to do it—that is how I knew him.
H. C. POOLE (re-called). I never wore a moustache in my life, I always shaved the same as you see me now—I never go more than two mornings.: without shaving.
JOSEPH WILD (re-examined by the Court). The driver has no authority to meddle with the bill of the conductor—time cards are generally issued to the conductors who generally take a copy of the times from the card, and give the card to the coachman—Poole had not a time card that morning, at least, not from me.
GUILTY — Eighteen Months' Imprisonment each.
NEW COURT.—Monday, May 3rd, 1875.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. CRAUFURD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution. Clara Harris. My father keeps the King's Head in Bloomsbury, and I serve in the bar—on 8th April, between 11 and 12 o'clock at night, the prisoners came in together, and Walmsley asked for half a quartern of gin hot, which came to 2 1/2 d.—I served him—he gave me a florin, I found it was bad, bent it, and gave it to my father who broke it—Jones said that she had been getting into the wars lately—my father spoke to the prisoners and they left together.
EDWARD HARRIS . I keep the King's Head—my daughter called ray attention to the prisoners on 8th April—I saw that she had bent the coin—I reversed the bend and it broke—I asked Walmsley if he knew it was bad—he said "No"—I said I would give them the benefit of it, and allow them to go—my man Ford, followed them—I was afterwards sent for to the station, saw the two prisoners there, and gave them in charge with the florin and the pieces which I marked.
Cross-examined by Walmsley. You may have said that you were very sorry and did know not it was bad.
CHRISTOPHER FORD . I am a waiter at the King's Head—on the night of 8th April I received instructions and followed the prisoners to the Crown Inn, Oxford Street—I saw something pass from one to the other on the way—I went in by another door and spoke to the barmaid—she showed me a broken florin and I went into the other compartment and detained the prisoners till a constable came—when Jones stepped back I found a broken sixpence under her dress—I gave it to the constable.
ELIZABETH HENNEY . I am barmaid at the Crown, 469, Oxford Street—on April 8, between 11 and 12 o'clock at night the prisoners came in; one of them called for half a quartern of gin, and while I was serving it Ford came in and called nay attention to the prisoners, who were drinking the gin together—Walmsley laid a florin on the counter—I broke it, and said "Are you aware what you have given me?"—Ford went for a constable.
Cross-examined by Walmsley. I don't know which of you called for the gin—Jones offered to pay for it in coppers, but not till I said do you know what you have give me.
Cross-examined by Jones. You did not call for a pint of stout. Thomas Matthew Crow. I am a chemist, of 49, Prince's Street, Leicester Square—on the 3rd April, about 11 a.m., I sold the prisoner 1d. worth of blue ointment—he gave me a bad shilling—I told him it was bad and made a hole in it with the scissors—he threw down a good shilling which he had. concealed in his hand and I gave him 11d. change and allowed him to go out of the shop—I then gave him in custody with the shilling in his hand. William Oxedge (Policeman C 232). On the 3rd April Mr. Crow gave the prisoner into my custody—I found on him this shilling with a hole in it: (produced), a sixpence, and 5d. were found on him at the station—he said that he took the shilling at the Charing Cross Railway Station—he was taken before a Magistrate on the 3rd, remanded till the 8th, and discharged at 12 o'clock in the day.
GEORGE SARGEANT (Policeman E 404). On the 8th April the two prisoners were given into my custody and I saw Ford pick up the broken sixpence—I received a florin in two pieces from Henny and a piece of a florin from Edward Harris—I searched Walmsley, but found nothing.
Cross-examined by Walmsley. Jones acknowledged calling for the gin and said that she would pay for it; nothing was said about a pint of ale—Ford did not fetch me, he was holding you.
WALMSLEY'S DEFENCE . I went into the house and had some gin. I met this; female there and asked her where I could get a lodging. The barmaid said that the coin was bad. I said "I have got 4d., we will go to another public-house and have a pint of beer. I did not know the money was bad.
Jones' Defence. What he has said is quite right. I said "You don't mind standing a drop of beer," and we went to the next public-house.
They were both further charged with former convictions of like offences; Walmdey in September, 1872, and Jones in March, 1873, to which they
PLEADED GUILTY— Five Years' Penal Servitude each.
MESSRS. CRAUFURD and DE MICHELB conducted the Prosecution.
LEON SCHOUVER . I am a chemist, of 21, Prince's Street, Hanover Square—on the 2nd April, at 9 o'clock p.m., I served the prisoner with a seidlitz powder which came to 2d.—he put down a half-crown—I gave him the change and then found that it was bad—lie had not left the shop then, but I followed him out and caught him in Regent Circus—he began to kick, he had been running, but had stopped and was taking to another man—he tried to kick me and I could not help letting him go—I pursued him and caught him at the corner of Oxford Street, a gentleman helped me and he was given in custody—the change I gave him was a florin and 4d.—I gave the half-crown to the constable—I never lost sight of the prisoner.
JOSEPH SMITH . I am assistant to Mr. Wilson, chemist, of 336, Oxford Street—on Friday evening, the 2nd April, between 8 and 9 o'clock, I saw another another assistant serve the prisoner with two sidelitz powders which came to 2d.—he tendered a half-crown which was put into the till and change was given—a constable came in, and I found a bad half-crown in the till which I marked and gave to the constable—I identified a seidlitz powder at the Btation as coming from our shop; the name was on it—I cannot say whether there was any other half-crown in the till.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. We took no half-crowns that night after that—I did not come forward till two weeks afterwards, because we did not wish to prosecute you, we are not the prosecutors, we are only witnesses. Edward Pabbott. I am an assistant to Mr. Willcox—I remember serving somebody, I don't know who, with a seidlitz powder, about 8 o'clock that evening the person gave me a half-crown which I put into the till—I cannot say whether there were other half-crowns there.
JOHN FULLER . I am a chemist, of 86, New Bond Street—on the 2nd April, between 8 and 9 o'clock at night, I served the prisoner with a seidlitz powder; he gave me a half-crown and I gave him 2s. 1d. change and put the half-crown in the till—there was no other half-crown there—I examined it when the constable came in and found it was bad; the date was 1874—I marked it and gave it to him—I have since seen a seidlitz powder and identified it as coming from my shop.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I can swear to you without much diffculty, the constable recognised you by my description.
JOSEPH WESTON . I am assistant to Roberts & Co., chemists, of New Bond Street—on 2nd April between 8 and 9 o'clock the prisoner came in for two seidlitz powders, and gave me a bad half-crown; one of the firm broke it in two, and I gave the pieces to the prisoner who paid me with coppers.
GEORGE BURMAN . I am assistant to Mr. Burman, a chemist, of 6, Store Street, Bedford Square—on 2nd April a man who I cannot identify came in for a seidlitz powder, and gave me a half-crown—I gave him 2s. 4 1/2 d. change and put the half-crown in the till; there were no others there—on the same day some one purchased two pennyworth of lint, and paid with a half-crown,
which was also put into the till—both those half-crowns were handed to the constable next morning.
HENRY PIPE (Policeman E 456). I was on duty in Oxford Street, at 8.45—heard a cry of "Stop thief," and Schubert came up and gave him into my custody—I searched him at the station and found a sovereign, 1l. 18s. 7d. in silver, 3s. 2d. in bronze, seven seidlitz powders, and two pieces of lint—he gave his correct address—I received this half-crown from Schubert, this other from Smith, this other from Fuller, and these two from Burden—one' of these seidlitz powders is from Mr. Willcox. (These seidlitz powder papers were identified by Smith, Fuller, Weston and Burden.
Prisoners Defence. A young man came up and said "Do you want any seidliz powders?" and gave them to me, and immediately a man came up and laid hold of me.
He was further charged with having been convicted of felony at the Guildhall, in 1874, to which he
PLEADED GUILTY— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.
MESSRS. CRAUFURD and DE MICHELE conducted the Prosecution.
TIMOTHY MARR . I am assistant counterman at the Pimlico Post-office, Buckingham Gate—in April the prisoner came for a shilling's worth of stamps, and tendered a gilt shilling—I sounded it on the counter and gave! him the stamps—I saw May weigh the coin and asked the prisoner where he got it, he said from his master—I asked him for the stamps back, and he refused, to give them to me.
WILLIAM ACKLAND MAY . I keep the counter at the Pimlico Post-office Buckingham Gate—on the afternoon of 2nd April I saw the prisoner come in, he asked for some stamps and the assistant counterman called to me to come and weigh a coin which I saw was too large and too light to be a sovereign—after it was weighed I told the prisoner that it was a bad sovereign—he said "It is not"—I said "It is"—I tried to break it but did not succeed—I asked him where he got it—he said that he took it for a debt—asked him for the stamps emdash he said that he would give them em to me if I would give him the money—it was a very busy day—I told him I would not give it to him, but I would give him a piece of it, and if he made any disturbance I would send for a policeman and give him in charge—I sent for the postmaster and gave him the coin—I did not mark it, but I can swear to it.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You returned the stamps afterwards—you could have gone before the policeman was sent for if you had given me the stamps back, but if you had gone with the stamps I should have gone after you.
JANE HUMPHREYS . I am a widow and keep a stationer's shop at 23 Eaton Place, Pimlico—on 6th February the prisoner came in for 1l. worth of stamps and said he did not care what kind they were—he had a letter in his hand and said that he had been endeavouring to get a post-office order but could not—I gave him 5s. worth of receipt stamps and the rest in postage stamps—he put them into the letter which he had in his hand: this
was from 5.20 to 5.30 and the gas was lighted daring the time we stood there—he placed this coin (produced) on the counter; I detected it the instant I touched it, and called after him—I took the coin to the station, showed it to the inspector, and saw him give it to a policeman who I saw return it to the inspector; he gave it to me—I took it home, wrapped it in paper, and put it in my cash-box, which no one else goes to, and on 12th April I handed it to the witness Talbot—on 5th April I went to the station and saw the prisoner; I did not point him out, but I felt that he was the man, and when I heard him speak I knew he was the man.
Cross-examined. It was about 5.30 when you came in, you were there from five to seven minutes before the gas was lighted—you were there nine, ten, or eleven minutes—Miss Talbot was there the whole time.
EMMA TALBOT . I am assistant to Mrs. Humphreys—on 6th February, about 5.30, the prisoner came in for 1l. worth of stamps; he was not particular whether they were receipt or postage—I had not sufficient and Bent for Mrs. Humphreys—the prisoner asked her for the stamps, saying that he was too late to get a post-office order—he had a letter in his hand, but I could not see whether it was addressed—Mrs. Humphreys gave him 1l. worth of stamps; he put them into the letter, threw down a coin which he had in his hand, and left the shop immediately—Mrs. Humphreys took it up and showed it to me, and we both thought it was bad—I went out but could not see the prisoner—the gas was not lighted when he came in, Mrs. Humphreys lit it when she came in and before he had the stamps—I took particular notice of him—I saw Mrs. Humphreys leck the coin up in a cash-box—I picked out the prisoner at the station from eight or ten others and have no doubt about him—I gave the coin to the constable.
Cross-examined. I was in the shop the whole time you were there except going into the sitting room for Mrs. Humphrey's keys—I had never-seen you before—I am Mrs. Humphery's niece.
ROBERT ANDERSON (Policeman B 62). On 6th February I was on duty at the Cottage Road police-station when Mrs. Humphreys came and handed a coin to the inspector, who handed it to me in her presence—I took it to Mr. Adshead, a silversmith, who examined it and poured some liquor on it—I did not lose sight of it from the time I gave it him till he gave it back to me, I then took it to the station again and gave it to the inspector, who handed it to Mrs. Humprheys in my presence.
WILLIAM WRIGHT (Policeman BR 13). I was called into the post-office and the prisoner was given into my custody for passing a counterfeit sovereign, he said that it was good money and be would make them pay for it—t received the coin from Mr. May and another from Miss Talbot on the 12th on the remand—I found 1d., same tobacco, and a box of lights on the "prisoner.
The Prisoner received a good character.
GUILTY — Nine Months' Imprisonment.
309. JOHN MELTON (18), PLEADED GUILTY to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Eliza Roberts and others and stealing therein a box of dates and other articles her property— Fourteen Days' Imprisoment.
310. GEORGE NORRIS (41) , to two indictments for stealing whilst employed in the post-office, four post letters, the property of the Postmaster-General, after a previous conviction of felony, also to stealing an inkstand and other articles of Edward Jenkins in his dwelling-house— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And
311. EMILE GARDINE (26) , to two indictments for stealing a purse and 2l. 5s., and a purse and 10s. from the person, after a previous conviction of felony— Fifteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, May 4th, 1875.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MARSHALL*— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.
HURLEY— Nine Months' Imprisonment.
MARNEY— Six Months' Imprisonment.
313. WILLIAM VAUSE FEAST (41) , to two indictments for embezzling 33l. 5s. and other sums of Jones Denton and another, having been before convicted of Felony in September, 1864. Recommended to mercy by Prosecutor— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]
317. CHARLES SUTTON (24) , to stealing; four boxes of cigars and other goods of James Hyde, his master, having been before convicted of felony in November, 1870— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]
MR. STRAIGHT, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLET the Defence.
WILLIAM HENRY DOLAMORE . I am a clerk in the employ of Pfeil, Stedall & Co., iron merchants, of Broad Street, Bloomsbury—on the 27th; March, some time between 12 o'clock and 12.30 in the day the prisoner came to the counting-house—I had known him well previously—he asked me for payment of a bill for some horseshoes; this is the bill he presented—"Messrs. Pfeil, Stedall & Co. Dr. to Wm. Pavey, veterinary surgeon, Mason Street. 6 cwt. of hind shoes, 6l. 12s. Paid W. Pavey." I asked him who signed the bill head—he said Williams; Williams is our store-keeper; he would take in these things, but he has no authority to sign bill '. heads, that would be the duty of Mr. Watson, our buyer—I don't know any one named Pavey, we have had no transactions with him—we did not owe
him 6l. 12s. or anything—I am quite certain as to the date and time at which I saw the prisoner—there were two other clerks present, Liversedge and Finch—I asked the prisoner to come downstairs with me to see Williams, because Williams had no authority to sign bill heads—he came downstairs with me and he went out at one door while I went out to find Williams and I saw no more of the prisoner—on the Tuesday I went to Tower Street to see R. W. Golding & Son—we had had frequent transactions with them; the prisoner, had called for bills from them—I saw him on the Tuesday; I did not speak to him—our Mr. Child, in my presence, asked him whether he was at our place on that day—he said that he was but he did not come upstairs—I have made inquiries in Mason Street, but cannot find that there is any person named Pavey there, nor has there been for the last three years.
Cross-examined. Mr. Child asked the prisoner whether he presented the bill in the counting-house—he said he did not go upstairs, he met Williams in the passage—there are eight clerks in the counting-house—there is a narrow passage leading from the street to the back and a large yard at the end—the passage is about 6 feet in width, and an old skylight at the end—there is a door on the left of the passage just before you get to the yard, leading up to the counting-house; there are about twenty steps up to the counting-house, and then there is a door to go through—my desk faces the door; the other clerks' desks are a short distance from mine; the room is very light—I know it was after 12 o'clock that this occurred, but it was not so late as 12.30—when the prisoner presented the paper he asked me to pay in the usual way, he simply handed me the bill head—I don't think he made any remark; I am not sure about it—it did not occupy above two minutes—I went to try and find Williams, but did not find him for twenty minutes—I gave Williams a description of the person who had' been with the bill—I had seen the prisoner constantly, but did not know his name—I described him to Williams as a slim, fair young man; I did not tell him how he was dressed—Williams said that Golding had been there that morning—I did not mention Golding's name until Williams mentioned it to me; I did not know that he came from Golding & Son, I knew that he came from a farrier's.
JOHN TYLER FINCH . I am clerk to the prosecutors—I have known the prisoner by sight for about a year as coming for the payment of bills from Golding—on Saturday, 27th March, I saw him in the office, I don't know what he was doing, he was going downstairs with Mr. Dolamore; it was shortly after 12 o'clock, about 12.15 or 12.30—I recognised him as a person I had seen before coming from the farrier's.
Cross-examined. I was not called at the Police Court—Mr. Child did not., tell me that the prisoner denied having come to the counting-house—I was told yesterday to come here; I was first spoken to about it two or three weeks ago, a day or two before I went to the Middlesex Sessions.
THOMAS WILLIAM LIVERSEDGE . I am a clerk to the prosecutors—I have known the prisoner about eighteen months by coming to our place presenting papers for money from Golding & Son—on Saturday, 27th March, I saw him in the counting-house—I saw him present a note to Dolamore, I did not hear any conversation pass, being too far off—I saw him go downstairs again, Dolamore first and the prisoner next; that was all I saw—I think it was from 12 o'clock to 12.30.
Cross-examined. I was first told I should be required as a witness two
or three weeks afterwards—Golding's accounts are initialed by Mr. Watson, not by Williams. '
WILLIAM WILLIAMS . I am stock-keeper to Messrs. Pfeil & Stedall—on Saturday, 27th March, I recollect the prisoner coming to me—I have known him for some months by coming to the firm with shoes—I saw him in the passage leading up into the warehouse—he said "Ob, Williams, do you want any shoes yet"—I said "No, you were told some time ago that we should not want any"—he said he was passing that way and he thought he would look in and see—no one was with him—there was a man with me who had been at work with me—he did not say anything else, nor did I—he then went down the passage into the street—I went through the coach-department down into the nail cellar—I did not initial any bill that day.
Cross-examined. He said he had called from his brother to see if anything was wanted—there is a door in the passage leading to the staircase up to the counting-house—I did not see him go beyond that door—I saw him go down the passage into the street—I saw him going down the passage—I should think it was about 12 o'clock.
Cross-examined. I found him at his work place in Tower Street, Waterloo Road, at his brother's.
MR. BESLEY called the following tidinesses for the defence.
JOHN GOLDING . I live at 73, Tower Street, Westminster Bridge Road—I am a farrier—I have been in business about two or two and a half years—my father had it before I did for sixteen years—I carried on business as Golding & Son—the prisoner is my brother, he will be twenty next July—he has been in my employment and was in my father's too, ever since he could work—there has never been any reproach on his character—I was in the habit of supplying horseshoes to Pfeil, Stedall & Co.—my brother has sometimes gone there for orders, and sometimes a lad named Ball, who is apprenticed to me—on Friday, 27th March, I directed my brother to go there for orders, to see what size shoes they would want, or whether they had sold any shoes—I think he left my place about 11 o'clock, or it might have been about 11.15—he came back about 12.30 or 12.35, Ball went with him and a man named Wright or Wade.
Cross-examined. I am sure it was not 10 o'clock when he left—it was holiday time—I was at work myself and gave the men a holiday—it is a good half hour's walk from my place to Messrs. Stedall's—I know the day because it was the day after Good Friday—these (produced) are some of my bills, three of them are in my brother's writing.
WILLIAM HENRY BALL . I am an apprentice to Mr. Golding, and live with him—on the Saturday after Good Friday I and the prisoner and Wade went to Messrs. Pfeil, & Stedall's, we got there about 12.15 or 12.20, between that or 12.30—I remained on the opposite side of the way, outside the Brown Bear beer-shop with Wade—the prisoner went up the passage of Messrs. Stedall's, and stood in the middle of the court—I saw him meet Williams—he was with him two or three minutes, and then came out and went away—he came straight out from the passage—he did not go into any doorway—I could see down the passage—he joined me when he came out—we went into a public-house at the corner of Endell Street—we did not stop there very long—we then went straight home—we got back from
1.15 to 1.20—the prisoner was not out of my sight from the time I left till I got home.
Cross-examined. He was not out of my sight a minute—I did not go into the beer-shop—I stood opposite the whole time looking up the passage—it was no while—it was two or three minutes—I had no reason for looking, we only went with him for a walk—I was showing Wade two or three things on the opposite side of the way, and I said "There is William in the court and there are four shops all belonging to one man"—I was going to show him something else but the prisoner came out before we had time to go over—I never lost sight of him the whole time; that I swear—I know the place well—he might have gone into a side door, but he did not—we were only standing there two or three minutes—I did not turn my back to the entrance of the passage.
ROBERT JAMES WRIGHT . I am sometimes called Wade—my mother married a Mr. Wade when I was twelve years old—I work occasionally for Mr. Golding in the winter—I know the prisoner—on the Saturday after Good Friday he asked me to come with him to Messrs. Stedall's, Ball went with us—Ball and I stood on the opposite side of the way and the prisoner went down the court—I saw him speak to some person, I don't know who it was till the prisoner came out again, then he told me—I saw him come out after speaking to the man—I never lost sight of him; he could not by possibility have gone up any stairs—I crossed the road and met him as he came out, we went and had some ale and then went straight home.
Cross-examined. I mean to say that I did not lose sight of the prisoner at all—I don't recollect Ball pointing out any shops or anything to me. The Prisoner received an excellent character.
NOT GUILTY . There was another indictment against the prisoner for forging and uttering the receipt , upon which no evidence was offered.
MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. HORACE BROWN: the Defence.
ALEXANDER SERJEANT COCHRANE . I am a banker and money lender, and carry on business under the title of the National Deposit Bank, at 17, Russell Street, Covent Garden—I first became acquainted with the defendant about two or three years ago—on 13th December, 1873, he executed a bill of sale for 430l.—that document was destroyed when another one was signed—it was secured on a mortgage of his stock and crops on the farm called Crow Hall, Denver Felt hall, in the county of Norfolk—that loan was to be repaid by four monthly instalments of 107l. 10s.—he made three payments of 107l. 10s., one on 16th February, "' one on 27th March, and one on 8th September, 1874; that left 107l. 10s. due—on 16th January this year he came to me and said he wished to borrow 112l. 10s. in money and the remaining 107l. 10s. that was due on the previous loan to be included in it, making 220l.—no one was present at that interview—I gave him a promissory note to take with him to get his son's signature to it—he took the promissory note away on the 16th, and on the 19th he came to me; on that occasion Mr. Thompson, the chief cashier, was present and witnessed the bill of sale—I then said to the prisoner "Is your property still unencumbered beyond the bill of sale I hold dated December 13th, 1873, is it absolutely your own"—he said "Yes, it
is"—I inquired of him whether he had full right to assign it to me, because in that inventory they could not be the same crops as were in the inventory of 1873—he assured me that the whole of the property was unencumbered—I am sure that he said that, otherwise I should not have parted with the money—I did not make inquiry about any other bills of sale—I asked him generally whether his property was unencumbered; I then advanced him the money—I wrote the inventory down in his presence from what he told me, and he signed it; this is it, and this is the bill of sale—it was given to him to read and was fully explained to him—he signed it before I gave him the cheque—I should not have given him the money unless he had signed it—after he had signed it I made out this cheque and gave it to him,. and I also released his other bill of sale; it was cancelled, torn up in his presence, and a receipt given to him for the money—I gave him 112l. 10s.—I held a previous promissory note of his for the 107l. 10s. and I gave him that back and took the new bill of sale to secure the 240l. payable in four monthly instalments of 60l. a month—the first instalment was due on 9th February—I was induced to part with my money upon his representation that the property was unencumbered—if I had known that Mr. Stevenson had a bill of sale of March, 1874, I should not have advanced the money—neither of the bills of sale were registered—I got a notice from the Bankruptcy Court about eight or nine days after I had advanced the money; I think on 4th February, as I had advanced the money on 19th January—my cheque has come back from my bankers paid.
Cross-examined. I am a banker—I do not take deposits from customers upon which they draw cheques—I could issue cheques, but I am simply a deposit banker—I am a banker in precisely the same sense as Coutts and Glyn—I am a money-lender as well as an ordinary banker—I advertise every day in the Standard, and have done so for a considerable period, seven or eight years, at 5 per cent, interest—I have not been all that time in Russell Street; at the time I advanced this money I was at 87, York Road, Westminster Bridge Road, and 33, Bloomsbury Street, Oxford Street, my name is Alexander Serjeant Cochrane—that is the name I have always gone by—I used to advertise in the name of Alexander Serjeant in all the papers, the Daily Telegraph and the Standard—the reason why I advertised in that name was because I was then my own manager, and in paying a farmer a cheque if I had signed it Serjeant and he paid it to his banker they would know that he had been to a London banker to borrow money, and that would have injured his credit—I signed my cheques in the name of Alexander Cochrane, then they would not know where he had been to—I have never been convicted, of course not—I was never convicted in the name of Serjeant—the defendant knew me as Mr. Serjeant Cochrane—I may have written to him in the name of Serjeant—he may have applied to my office for money when I advertised in that name—I did not say at the Police Court that I had some thousands of bills of sale running of this character; a thousand I dare say I might have—I have only been in Russell Street since July last—I advance at 5 per cent. where money is borrowed for ten years on mortgage of house property—I think I charged the defendant 15 per cent., certainly not close upon 90 per cent.—I gave him 390l. cash or 400l. for the 430l. loan—the book only shows the 430l., not the amount I gave—I had to pay the expense of going down to his
place to make inquiries—before negotiating the first loan I wrote to him to say he must pay my second-class fare to Norfolk—that was prior to this loan—the loan was secured by four promissory notes of 107l. 10s., payable in one, two, three and four months—he borrowed the money for four months, and we always reckon the interest on the length of time—the 15 per cent. was for the accommodation—the first three instalments were met, the fourth was not—he paid me 2l. 13s. 9d. a month for that while it was running—of course if a person wants it to stand over they pay in proportion—it went on up to 19th January—in December, 1873, his son was security—he was security for every one of these notes—I did not know that his son could deposit security to the extent of 12, 000l.—I never heard of such a thing—I required the son's security on each note—I asked him about security and he said his son was a man of some considerable property and he would ask him to be security—I then made out the promissory notes and said if his son would sign them I would lend him the money—Richard Parnell is my manager—I have several clerks; I have one named Henry Isaacs, we call him Mr. Henry—I am not aware that he rings the changes on his name—he does not go by the name of Mr. Henry as a rule—I did not know that he signed for the bank in the name of Henry till you told me so the other day at the Police Court—I know now that he did sign "I. Henry," he is here—it was on the 16th January that the defendant called; I had written to him to say that I must have his loan settled up; I did not keep a copy of the letter—I did not ask him for more interest; he did not say when he came that he had come to pay the interest—he did not have a conversation about breeding-horses for me—I wanted a carriage horse and asked him if he had one for sale; he is a breeder of horses—I did not say to him "Do you want any more money—the proposition came from him; would I let him have some more, and I said I would do so on condition that his son signed a fresh promissory note and this bill of sale would then have to be cancelled—I did not let him have the money on the 16th, because he had not got his son's signature—I would not have let him have the money but for his son's signature and the bill of sale—I had a bill of sale on the son's goods as well; he never deposited with me 12, 000l. of security, not a farthing—it is true, as I said before the Magistrate, that I refused to let the defendant have any more money till the promissory note was signed by the son, I waited three or four days till he brought it, and then I advanced the money—I had not shown him the bill of sale on the 16th, it was simply a copy of the original one; it was not prepared then—I spoke to him about it then, I swear that; no one was present—I am not aware that a prisoner on his trial cannot give evidence—this is only the second time I have been here, I was here about six years ago when I prosecuted a person; I know nothing of criminal matters—the prisoner owed me 200l. and 20l. for interest after he had signed the bill, and after I had received the son's promissory note, the costs made it 230l.; there was the cost of the bill of sale, the cost of inquiry into his responsibility at Stubbs and Perry's, and the stamps—we always have fresh inquiries, to see whether there is any other bill of sale registered—at that time the son also owed me 210l. for an advance of 200l.—he did not have that by driblets; he had 25l. a week by his own desire—he has paid back the whole of that and he gave me 90l. to release his liability to these promissory notes; he was liable for the whole 400l., but a few days prior to my receiving the 90l. his solicitor called and told me if I did not receive the money he would file a petition for liquidation, and under
his influence I received the 90l.—I received 300l. on the 17th February all in one-lump—Israel went down to Norfolk to seize the son's sheep—I authorised him to go down and instruct an auctioneer to seize the sheep; he realised the sheep and brought me the 300l.; it was paid on the 17th, and I received it on the 18th—I did not prove in bankruptcy, I swore a bankruptcy petition on the 13th February—Mr. Walter E. Goatley is a commissioner for administering oaths; he is my solicitor in this matter—Mr. Abrahams, his representative, acted for me at Bow Street, I don't know whether he is a solicitor; he examined the witnesses for me; he went with me into the Grand Jury room yesterday—Mr. Stevenson was not examined before the Grand Jury, only me and Mr. Abrahams—Israel was before the Magistrate but was not examined.
Re-examined. I have the cheque here that I gave him on 13th December, 1873; it is for 390l.—up to 8th September I had only received 322l. 10s. and interest for arrears—that came to 32l. 5s.—the interest on renewals would be more than on the loan, because, if you cannot depend on a man's money coming back, you must charge more, because you have not the money to work with—I had to pay five guineas out of pocket in sending to Norfolk, and my surveyor has two guineas a day—I did not get back the 430l.—I lost 107l. 10s. out of that promissory note—the 90l. I received from the son relates to the second loan—the money I lent in December, 1873, did not come back till February, 1875, and then not the whole of it, and I should not have got it unless I had written to him a great many times—I should not have parted with my money upon the promissory notes without the bill of sale—if he had refused to sign the bill of sale, I should not have parted with the money; it was on the bill of sale and the promissory notes that I parted with it; the bill of sale was the only security I had—the son's loan was 210l.; I gave him 200l. in cash—that loan was granted on 23rd September, 1874—he is of full age and a well-educated man—that loan was between the two loans to the prisoner—he was only too pleased to borrow the money on the terms; he took away half of it, and requested me to send him 25l. a week to pay his men's wages—that was entirely his own wish, and I was at the expense of registering the letters every week—I should not have parted with the 112l. 10s. to the prisoner but for his statement that there was no encumbrance on his property beyond the residue of the old bill of sale.
By Mr. Brown. I should not have parted with the money if the son had not signed the notes—I had not the cheque ready signed when he came with the promissory notes; it was written out in his presence.
GEORGE WILLIAM THOMPSON . I am a cashier employed by Mr. Cochrane at the Deposit Bank, 16 and 17, Great Russell Street, Covent Garden—I was present two or three days before 19th January, 1875, when the defendant came there—he wished to borrow some more money on a bill of sale and pay the balance due on a former bill of sale—he said he wished to borrow it on his farming stock and crops—he was asked if the property was still unencumbered except the bill of sale that we held—he said it was—I saw him again on the 19th—the money was advanced to him, on that day—I saw him sign the bill of sale; it was put into his hand and explained to him—the inventory was also signed, and after that the cheque was handed to him.
Cross-examined. I heard all the conversation that took place on the 16th I heard nothing about 390 guineas for a horse—he was to take away the
promissory note on the 16th for his son to sign—it was understood that he was to sign a fresh bill of sale; I believe Mr. Cochrane said so; I won't be so certain as to that—I feel almost certain that he did—the money he had borrowed before was on a bill of sale, and it was understood that this was to be the same—he came back on the Monday with the promissory note signed by the son, and Mr. Cochrane handed him the cheque; I believe he made it out in his presence—he was asked again on the 19th whether the property was encumbered, and he said no, save and except the former bill of sale; that was on the 16th and again on the 19th before he had the money.
HENRY RONALD STEVENSON . I am a scrivener, of No. 3, Bond Court House, Fallbrook—I know the defendant—on 27th March, 1874, he called on me and wanted to borrow some money—I let him have 400l. on three farms, Crow hill Farm, Poppy Lot Farm, and Shrub hill Farm, near Down ham, Norfolk—I asked him if he had any bill of sale or any encumbrance upon. his property—he said he had not—I advanced him 400l., and have the cheque here—before I parted with it he signed the bill of sale and the inventory; I produce them; it is to secure 475l. to be repaid by three instalments on 27th of May, June, and July—he did not pay any of them; he only made one payment of 250l. in September, about six months after the time:—he still owes me 225l.
Cross-examined. I went down to Norfolk; I was there nearly two days. with the defendant—I found him in the occupation of a large farm there; I went over it with him and his son—I have no idea of the number of acres, it was a very large place; he told me it was near 2, 000 acres alto-gather, but I have no means of judging at all of that—I saw a great quantity. of turf—I took a second bill of sale on' 26th January, 1875; that was in reality to secure this—this was unregistered—the reason I took the other was that on 23rd or 24th January, or perhaps the 25th, Mr. Mitchell telegraphed to me that he had got an execution in, and I went down with my, solicitor to see what it was about, and then the second bill of sale was taken to secure this, because he thought he might have other executions put in—when I went down there I looked very carefully round the farm—I don't know much of growing crops, but other things I know pretty well; I think what I saw was worth between 4, 000l. and 5, 000l.—I did not hear till I went down the second time that he was engaged in a heavy law suit last year; I read an account in the London papers that he had an arbitration case with Canon Sparks, of Ely, his landlord; I believe all this trouble was occasioned by the failure of that law suit—I don't believe he would have had any reason to call his creditors together but for the execution that was put in by the clergyman.
Re-examined. I did not go to the meeting of creditors; I went to the solicitor's office—my solicitor had a notice that he was a liquidating debtor and could not meet his engagements—when I saw him on 25th January he never told me anything about the 112l. he had obtained from Mr. Cochrane—I never heard of his bill of sale till Mr. Cochrane sent a person round to make inquiries—I heard of the execution on 24th or 25th January—it was for 211l.
By THE COURT. I had the second bill of sale registered, not the first; it is not very common to register if you think there is sufficient security, of course it is worthless as against the sheriff; he swept away nearly all there was, and the first bill of sale was waste paper against the sheriff.
Several witnesses deposed to the Prisoner's good character.
GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his character — Three Months' Imprisonment.
MR. FRITH conducted the Prosecution; MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS the Defence.
LOUISA HAWKINS . I am the daughter of Henry Hawkins and live at 39, Wellclose Square—on Tuesday evening 13th April I was looking out at the door and saw the prisoner walking up and down from 8 till 11 o'clock, there were three more with him—about 12.30 in the morning my father missed three coats, three silk pocket handkerchiefs, a gold brooch, a gold locket, a lamb's-wool shawl, and petticoat, worth altogether about 10l., also a blue cheque duster which was covered over my father's clothes.
Cross-examined. I had never seen the prisoner before; I am not aware that he knows my brother—we shut the shop up at 12 o'clock—the shop projects a good way into the street.
ELIZA LEWES . I am a tailoress, and live in Wellclose Square—on Tuesday night 13th April between 11 o'clock and 11.30 I was coming through Ship Alley and met the prisoner; I am sure he is the man; I afterwards picked him out at the station from a great many others—he knocked up against me—I observed that he Had a parcel tied up in a check duster, he had another bundle tied up under his arm, but I could not see what that was.
Cross-examined. I said before the Magistrate that I saw his back and noticed his clothes—I also identified him by his voice, because he bumped against me, and as I turned round to speak to him he used most obscene language—I identified him by his features as well—this was just at the corner by Mr. Hawkins', he was coming direct from there.
HENRY HAWKINS . I am a house painter, and live at 39, Wellclose Square—on the evening of 13th April I went out about 6 or 7 o'clock, leaving my family at home—I returned about 12 o'clock or a little after—I did not miss anything till I went upstairs—I then found my drawers open and missed the articles stated—my wife was in bed; I awoke her—I found the window open—a person could get on to the leads over the shop, also in at the window—my wife is not here.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 4th, 1875.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
325. WILLIAM ROBERT WARNER (54) , to three indictments for embezzling the sums of 8l. 7s. 11d. 25l. 14s. 9., 6l. 6s. 9d., 7l. 5s. 11d., 3l. 17s. 9d., 7l. 7s. 9d., 15l. 7s. 3d., and 7l. 15s. 9d. of James Turner and others, his masters; also to three indictments for stealing 357l. 5s. 6d., 324l. 7s. 11d., 247l. 9s. 10d., 14l. 2s. 3d., 25l., 13l. 14s., and 100l. of his said masters— Judgment respited[Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]
326. TOM HORACE ORLANDO SAYWELL (17) , to stealing a post-letter containing 25l. the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General— Five Years' Penal Servitude . [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And
327. HENRY SARTOR (31) , to six indictments for stealing orders for the payment of 78l. 1s. 6d., 117l. 12s. 7d., 117l. 16s., and other sums, of Richard Hobbs and others, his masters— Five Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]
328. JAMES CHARLES HARDING (34) , For that he having been adjudicated a bankrupt, failed to discover all his personal property, with intent to defraud. Second Count—For the non-accounting for 2, 000l., part of his personal property. Third Count—Unlawfully obtaining from Eliza Butcher 500l. on credit, and incurring a liability to that amount. Fourth Count—Unlawfully making a charge on a certain leasehold house, to wit a mortgage, with intent to defraud his creditors.
MR. METCALFE, Q.C., and MR. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. HARRIS and MR. FIELD the Defence.
WILLIAM PULLEY . I am Registrar of the Edmonton County Court—I produce the proceedings in the bankruptcy of James Charles Harding—the petition is dated July, 1874, it was filed the same day—the adjudication was July 23rd, and on August 11th J. B. Bradfield was appointed trustee—that appointment was afterwards vacated by order of the Judge, and George Frederick Flower was appointed, trustee—this is the bankrupt's statement of affairs, it shows a liability of 2, 936l., and he represents his assets to be 878l., showing a deficiency of about 2, 057l.—there is no deficiency account—I find two or more orders by the Court for filing cash accounts, but he has filed none—I sat as judge in an examination held before me on 22nd December; I took these notes of that examination (produced).
Cross-examined. These are not official notes taken by a short-hand writer, nor are they made from my recollection; they were made at the time and I will undertake to say that they are correct word for word—official short-hand notes would be filed but not my notes—I cannot say that my notes contain all he said; the answers only are put, not the questions—I remember the purport of it exactly, but there are other matters which I cannot remember without refreshing my memory. (The witness was allowed to use his notes to refresh his memory.)
MR. LEWIS. Q. What did he say A. He was examined by Mr. Lewis as to Butcher's loan of 500l., and said that the debts were received in capacity of an auctioneer, and appropriated to his own use; that Mr. Bowron's claim was for 300l., and he was instructed in October or November in 1873, to sell live and dead stock—the sale realised over 2, 000l., and the balance owing to Bowron was 200l., less commission—he said "I did not pay all I received"—I do not say that part of Mr. Butcher's loan went in discharge of Mr. Bowron's debt—it went in the business generally—as to John Luigay he said "I was instructed to sell live and dead stock, —t realised about 1, 700l. or 1, 800l.; fifty sheep were not sold, and came into the assets; that was paid into my account in the usual way of business"—as to David Kidd he said "The house and homestead at Tanner's End were purchased through me, 110l. deposit was paid to my bankers. Alfred Lott is not a creditor for 109l., he is a creditor for 63l. 2s., the proceeds of a sale; the greater part was not received by me, and is owing now. I received money from the local board and handed it over to him"—as to Mr. Gilbert he said "The farm produce was sold, the estate owes him the money, 41l., a little over 20l. is owing now"—as to the Provident Building Society he said "Holder of lease
held house for residue of ninety-nine years, executed a mortgage to them, received clear money, about 200l. I knew then that I was hopelessly insolvent. I was then in treaty for a partnership. I had told my proposed partner of the fact—the treaty went off after I was gazetted—I was pressed by my bankers, my account was considerably overdrawn; this 200l. went into the Imperial Bank. I wanted two bankers, because the Imperial had a branch at Waltham. The receipts being about equal to the office and house-hold expenses, the sums received in business went into the general business"—Bradfield the horse dealer, was then mentioned, and the prisoner said "He is a creditor for over 500l., I paid him very likely as much as 1, 400l. for borrowed money had at different times, between June 1873 and another date; 25 and 30 per cent. I was sometimes paying him at a time when I knew I was hopelessly insolvent. I continued borrowing money of Bradfield on the same terms. I can't say how much I borrowed of Bradfield; I kept no private book of account. I may have borrowed from first to last of Bradfield 2, 500l.; I won't swear to any amount, not even that it was more than 20l. the expenses of advertising, & c., where property has not sold. There were a great many sales in two years; I cannot say how many. There were other sources of loss, bad debts; some are brought forward as assets, and some crossed off"—then the new offices and lease were touched upon "part paid for the lease, and part paid for the building"—Batten was mentioned "Had no interest in his business; borrowed no money of him; have paid him money for horse hire. I did not pay him so much as 150l. He used to exchange cheques for me. He has not dined at my house; I lived at Ingleside the house is not furnished. There is not furniture in every room; in one room, a back one, there is none. The furniture now in the house is the same as it was before the sale; 20l. worth of furniture was given back to me by the trustee, Bradfield; Hart, a broker, purchased for Jay, the auctioneer who was acting for Mr. Bradfield, the trustee. I have an appointment bringing me in 2l. a week; rent of Ingleside is 65l. a year; I keep no servant; I consider I am living rent free; I am holding the house for the mortgage, simply taking possession of the house. The trustee has all books I kept; I had a kind of ledger, sale book, rough journal or cash book no other book. Monies received on account of customers were entered on separate memoranda. I did not know I was insolvent until Christmas, 1873; I found I was short of money in February, 1874. In June, 1873, I did believe I was solvent. I never made out any balance-sheet. April 25, 1874, re-sale of property in Cambridge shire. Mr. Rudd lives at Enfield"—then he was re-examined—those are all the notes I have—the re-examination was not taken down—Mr. Bignall appeared and asked leave to cross-examine the bankrupt, and I believe it was objected to—I have no recollection that he proceeded with any examination, and probably that is the reason I have taken nothing down.
Cross-examined. If he was re-examined not a word has been taken down—I believe Mr. Bignall appeared for the defendant; he also appeared for one of the creditors, and there were other people there—I have nothing to refresh my memory as to whether there were interpolations or questions by different solicitors—the words "hopelessly insolvent" might have been Mr. Lewis' words, but the bankrupt adopted them—the last examination was on the 22nd December, 1874—the application was made on February 6th, and the order was filed on February 9th—the examination had been adjourned then and the adjourned examination has never been held yet, because he was
ordered to be prosecuted—I think Mr. Bignall offered to answer any requisition that might be made.
Re-examined. After the examination an order was made on more than one occasion for him to file a cash account; the adjournment was to give him the opportunity of doing so—a further examination was of no use whatever without his filing a cash account; everything hinged on the cash account; requisitions were of no use till we got that—he simply said that he could not do so, because no accounts had been kept.
GEORGE FREDERICK FLOWER . I am an auctioneer, of Southampton Buildings, Chancery Lane—I was not the original trustee, I was appointed trustee last October and saw the bankrupt about a fortnight afterwards—I had: received his books from the Edmonton Bankruptcy Court in his presence; a large number of them were of no use, with the exception of a cash-book and a ledger which was labeled "Day-book" and which was used as a sort of ledger—there are about forty-eight accounts in it, half of which commence in 1874—I sometimes find the debtor side on the right and sometimes on the left and sometimes the two are intermixed—on folio 1 4 the debtor account is on the right and the creditor on the left, and on folio 18 they are both on the same page—I also received a book called the day-book containing about 500 pages, it is not labelled "Day-book," but it appears to have been used as a day-book—it commences in 1872 and contains records of business up to May, 1874, during which time 11 pages only have been filled with the records of the business—I was not able to gain any information from the way in which the books were kept—this is the banker's pass-book and this is the sales-! book which commences in 1874—I also received a book of blank forms with counterfoils, apparently to be used to represent contracts for sales—one leaf of it has been torn out, but otherwise it has not been used at all—in consequence of not being able to glean information from the books, I applied to him from time to time for a cash account and he told me that he would give it, but he never performed, and I applied to the Court to compel him—his explanation of the deficiency was that it arose from the illness of his first wife and that he had expended a great deal of money in advertisements which he could not charge his customers with—he delivered to me two banker's pass-books from which I found cheques payable to himself amounting to 210l. 13s. 6d., wages to 282l. 19s. 3d., expenses 85l. 6s. 6d., less 12l. 10s. rates and taxes 37l.; amounting altogether to 738l. in thirteen months—the 210l. is for "self," 280l. for "wages," and 85l. for "expenses"—I find the name of Bradfield occurring frequently in the pass-book, but not in any of the other books—I find no account in the sold ledger referring to Bradfield—the first entry relating to Bradfield in Barnett & Hoare's pass-book of 1873 is "10 June, Bradfield 10l.," and on 19th June, I find Bradfield, 150l., and on 4th July 100l., 10th July 150l., 18th July 100l., 2nd August 200l., 23rd August 145l., and 2nd September 150l. (I am in doubt whether the name there is Bradfield or Bradford), September 12th 200l., and September 20th 200l., making in the three months 1, 250l.—that is deducting the 150l. on 2nd September—in 1874 the account commences on 4th January with 4l., January 31st 100l., February 10th 250l., February 21st 150l., and February 24th 200l.; that is 700l. in one month—those amounts in a general way correspond with the actual deficiency—in addition to that Bradfield proved as a creditor for 550l. before my trusteeship, I find it on the proceedings.
Cross-examined. The defendant said that he was perfectly willing to
hand over every book he had got, and he handed over about twenty of all sorts and a lot of sale papers as well—I have not produced them, they only relate to sales that should have been entered in his books—I have left them at Chancery Lane—I have not seen a statement made out by Mr. Bignall—I did not ask for one because the papers were in my possession—I have not known the prisoner long—he told me that his misfortunes were chiefly owing to the very long illness of his first wife—I did not know her—he has a wife now and two children—I do not live at Edmonton—he told me that he had not kept a cash-book of his personal expenses—if he bought a cigar I should not expect to find it in his cash-book, but if he bought a box of cigars I should.
Re-examined. The sale papers were draft catalogues and printed papers which gave no information of the money he had received—many of the books handed to me were quite blank—I do not know whether his wife has taken proceedings against him in the Divorce Court.
ELIZA BUTCHBR . I am the wife of Major Butcher, we live at Waltham Abbey—the prisoner was introduced to me by Mr. Gardiner, his cousin, and in April, 1874, he and his wife called on us and the prisoner asked me if I would let him have a loan of 500l. as he required 300l. to make an; advance for a client of his to secure a large sale of freehold, leasehold, and copyhold at Cambridge, and if I would let him have 500l., he had the rest by him—I said that I would let him have it if it was perfectly secure because it would reduce my income—he said that it was as safe as the Bank of England, and that the writings were in his iron chest, and he appealed to his wife to say if it was not so—she said "Yes"—I said that I could not let him have the money then as I should be obliged to sell out some stock—about three days after that his wife brought me this letter. (This was dated 16th April, 1874, from the prisoner to the witness, requesting her to let him have the 500l. at once.) They afterwards came together for the money and he told me that he had just come from his brother Paul, who would let him have the money in a moment, only he had just been paying a large sum, and knowing them to be established people, I believed him—he repeated several times that the writings were in his iron chest—after that I let him have the money and took from him a bill of exchange—he said that he only required the money for a month, but Major Batcher said that it would be impossible to get the money in a month, and the bill had better be drawn for two months, which was done—it was dishonored and I have never got a penny—I afterwards let him have some furniture to sell for me which I had to spare—it realised about 200l. but I never got a penny—I am now a creditor for 700l.—I should not have parted with my money if I had not believed his statement.
Cross-examined. My husband is on the Continent and has been there about two months—the sale was supposed to realise 120l. and I was to have half—he said that it would produce more interest than it would in the bank—I was introduced to him I think two years before, but had never lent him money before—a week after he had received the loan he called again stating that his business was increasing and he thought he should take a partner, I said that I thought it was the best thing he could do—he said "It would be a fine thing for Major Butcher"—I said Major Butcher knows nothing about auctioneering, my husband was the last person I should have dreamt of—I did not suggest that he would not mind being a sleeping partner—the prisoner used to visit at our house before this but I only saw his wife twice—I may
have said to the prisoner before this "Mr. Harding, you axe not looking well," but he did not say" I am short of money,"—he always represented himself as doing exceedingly well—the 500l. he wanted was for a client, he said that he invariably lost his best sales in consequence of not being able to make advances—Mr. Paul being his brother—n-law confirmed my condence in him—I cannot say whether I should have lent the 500l. if he bad not said that—I lent it to him upon the faith that I was going to get more interest than I got in the bank—I put the bill of exchange into my chest—I did not give it to the Major—I don't know whether I tried to get it discounted—I have a separate estate, my brother is my trustee—I have put my name down in the schedule for 525l. 0s. 7d.—that was from the prisoner's statement that the furniture only realised 25l. 0s. 7d.—my trustee sued him on the bill of exchange and I suppose got judgment against him.
Re-examined. I left my attorney to take what proceedings he thought right—the cheque was signed in my name—I do not know what" endorsing" means—I would not have lent the prisoner the money except upon the faith of his statement that he had the deeds.
GEORGE FREDERICK FLOWER (re-examined). I was present at the prisoner's examination at the Bankruptcy Court—he said that the estate was in Cambridgeshire, he never disclosed the name of the owner but he mentioned the name of the person he was negotiating with—I think it was Mr. Rudd—negotiating to sell for Rudd, but Rudd was not the owner.
JOHN MANNING RUDD . I am manager to the ordnance factory of small arms, Enfield, and am entitled to an estate at March in the Isle of Ely—Messrs. Lewis of Southampton Street, Strand, are solicitors in the matter—five or six months ago the prisoner made a proposal, to raise 700l. or 800l. to redeem a mortgage of mine prior to selling the estate, I did not put him in possession of the title deeds or give him any authority to sell the estate—he never told me that had received 500l. and that he had the other 300l. ready to pay.
SAMUEL HESSIE BEHREND . I am a solicitor—I do not know this estate, but I know of it; it is at present held in two moieties; the title deeds to the entirety are I am informed are in the hands of some bankers at New-market—I have been there a great number of years, but I never saw them—the title deeds of the moiety to which my client is entitled 1 have never seen; she takes under a will—I believe Messrs. Lewis have some deeds; I have none, and never had any—I have never instructed the prisoner to sell her moiety; she is a lunatic; nor have I received from him money raised by him on that estate on behalf of my client's moiety.
THOMAS LEWIS . I am one of the firm of Lewis & Co., solicitors, of Southampton Street, Strand—Mr. Rudd is interested in one moiety of some property at March, and my client is the mortgagee—I did not ask the prisoner to sell, nor have I received the money;, 700l. is about the value of the whole; 25l. or 26l. a year.
----Petard. I am solicitor to the London Permanent Building Society—I produce a mortgage of the prisoner's leasehold residence at Edmonton—I saw the deed executed by him on the 21st June, 1874—I gave him a cheque on that day for 185l. 13s. 6d., and a further sum of "100l. on 18th June.
Cross-examined. The advance was to be 300l., but the house was not finished, and 100l. was retained by the Society until it was finished and the surveyor reported that certain repairs were done—I do not know how much
was to be laid out on the premises—I never saw the house; I only know what my instructions were—the house would become more valuable when the repairs were done—the outlay is not in the mortgage—I assume that the house was finished to the satisfaction of the surveyor, or the prisoner would not have had the 100l.
Re-examined. I no not know whether the house had been completed before the mortgage—we reserved the 100l. that our surveyor might have an opportunity of seeing whether the house was finished; it was only a question of value.
MR. HARRIS submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury on any of the Counts, there being no evidence of non-accounting except as to the 2, 000l., which might have been absorbed in his trade and family expenses, or that he had not delivered up what property he had; that his statement as to an estate in Cam-bridgeshire and his possession of the deeds had not been negative; that the efforts made by him to obtain money to avoid bankruptcy ought not to be construed into an intent to defraud, and as he had not passed his final examination he had not had the opportunity of fully explaining his affairs. Mr. Metcalfe contended that it was a case for the Jury, and the Court left the case to the Jury on the first and third counts.
GUILTY on the first and third counts—Judgment respited.
MR. METGALFE, Q.C., and MR. SLADE conducted the Prosecution.
ANNIE BAKER . I am in the service of a lady who lives in Holborn—on 26th April, I put a pair of earrings into a card box with a small note and some wadding, sealed it up in a sheet of paper, addressed "Mrs. Crowhurst, 19, Hanover Street, Lupus Street, Pimlico," and gave it to the porter to post, between 2 and 3 o'clock in the afternoon—these (produced) are the note, earrings, box, and envelope which is in my writing.
THOMAS JOHN HARRIS . I am assistant letter carrier at Churton Street. Office, which is seven minutes' walk from Lupus Street—on 28th April, about 10.45 I saw a letter bag lying on the stamping table—I emptied it out and this pair of earrings came out, and this box and these three letters (produced)—I immediately communicated with Mr. Alley—the prisoner afterwards came, took away the bag and put it by his side—he was arranging the letters which he was going to deliver—two of these letters are addressed to Lupus Street, and one to Rutland Street.
Prisoner. I did not take the bag from the stamping table. Witness. I am positive you did; I saw you do it.
WILLIAM ALLEY . I was acting overseer at Churton Street Post Office, on this morning—the prisoner was a letter carrier—his district was Lupus Street—on 28th April, at 10.55 a.m., Harris took up a bag which was on the stamping table—it contained three letters, a box, a small piece of paper and some earrings—I took the letters and box away, and told him to put the bag back, and immediately afterwards the prisoner came and took it to his seat—it was a bag which I had lent to the prisoner a month or five weeks before as he had lost his own—I know it; it has his initials
on it—I allowed him to arrange his letters and then asked him if he could account for these letters—he said "No"—I asked him how the letters and earrings came into his bag; he said "I don't know"—I told him he would have to go with me to the S. W. district and explain to the postmaster—this envelope addressed to. Mrs. Crowhurst, bears the W. C. post mark 3 o'clock on Monday the 26th, and S. W. of the same-date but later—if that had been posted at 2 o'clock in Holborn, it would have come to Churton Street Office, between 5 and 6 o'clock, and would have been sorted to the prisoner for delivery and he would have delivered it between 6 and 7 o'clock—these three letters are marked "Southampton, April 26th;" "S. W., April '27th;" "Wallington, April 26th;" "S. W., April 27th;" and "High Wycombe, April 26th;" "S. W., April 27th."
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. I was standing at the end of the table when Harris turned the bag out, and I made towards him.
CHARLES JAMES STEVENS . I am attached to the missing letter branch of the post-office—on 28th April my attention was called to this matter, and I went with Moore to the S.W. office and saw the prisoner—I said "I have been informed that letters were found in your bag, how do you account for not delivering them?"—he said "I know nothing about them"—I drew his attention to the cardboard box, and earrings, and said "How do you account for these being in your possession?"—he said "I know nothing about them"—I directed Moore to search him, and saw him take this envelope from his pocket addressed to Mrs. Crowhurst—he said that he knew nothing about it—he was given in custody.
Prisoner's Defence. Everything has to be turned out of this bag on to the table, and I should have been sure to be found out if I had placed them there. We have very often loose wrappers. I had one in my pocket at the time, but they make no mention of that. If I wished to steal the earrings I should not have left them for a day and a half in the office.
T. J. HARRIS (re-examined). I emptied the bag because I thought it was a collection, and that it ought to be emptied out—the bags are not necessarily emptied out because they are laid there, but I mistook it for a collection.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, May 4th, 1875.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
330. RICHARD BROWNING (65), CHARLES HARRISON BARKER (61), and SAMUEL JACOBS alias REYNOLDS (66) , Unlawfully obtaining. large quantities of ironmongery from William Graham by false pretences, and other goods from other persons.
MR. BULWER, Q.C., MR. BEASLEY and MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution; MR. RIBTON defended Barker.
JOHN RICHARD WELLMAN . I am a clerk in the employ of Messrs. Graham & Sons, of Trigg Lane, iron merchants—in December the prisoner Browning came to know our terms of selling iron—he gave the name of Richard Browning—he showed me an order for wrought iron tubes, and then he asked what our price and terms would be—I said our terms were for cash, and if credit, two satisfactory references would be required—he said "Very well," and went away—he came again about
two days afterwards, and brought as references Mr. Charles Barker, of Chalcott Crescent, and Mr. Reynolds, of Victoria Road, Peckham—I wrote to those addresses—I received this letter from Mr. Samuel Reynolds. (Read: "31, Victoria Road, Peckham, December 3rd, 1874. Sirs,—Yours received, respecting Mr. Richard Browning of 3, Stacey Terrace, Peckham, I beg to say I have known him several years when I have had many transactions. I always found him prompt in his payments and engagements with me; I consider him a safe person to do business with, and trustworthy, say up to 100l. I am, yours obediently, Samuel Reynolds.") This is the answer I received from Mr. Charles Barker. (Read: 24, Chalcott Crescent, December 2nd, 1874. Gentlemen,—in answer to your letter respecting Mr. Richard Browning, of Peckham, I have known him many years, he is a most respectable man; I consider him most trustworthy, should have no objection, should he require it, to trust him 100l. or 200l. Yours in confidence, C. Barker.") Browning called the following day and wished to know whether the references were satisfactory—I told him Mr. Graham had consented to give him credit—when he gave Mr. Barker as a reference, he said he was a gentleman living in a fine house and worth thousands of pounds—he also said "I am a retired publican, and have just sold my business for 6, 000l."—he gave me his address on the first occasion as 3, Stacey Terrace, Peckham—I first supplied him with goods on 9th December, to the amount of 35l. 19s. 5d.—a cart came and fetched the goods away, and they were delivered to a person who signed for Browning—on the 18th I supplied goods to the. amount 12l. 8s. 11d.—the whole amount of goods supplied was 151l. 4s. 11d., consisting of boiler tubes of different classes, gutters, pipes, stoves, ranges and such things—those goods were taken away from time to time in the same manner—he came again in January and brought a further order which I declined to execute until the goods which had been already delivered were paid for—he did not have the goods then—a day or two afterwards he brought this bill dated 18th January, drawn by Browning, and accepted by, Charles Barker payable to us for 151l. 4s. 11d.—he said it was the same Barker whom he had referred us to—I took that bill and believed it to be genuine—he asked if he could have the goods that he wanted before, and he had them on the 20th January—they amounted to 13l.—we delivered further goods to the amount of about 100l., making altogether 250l. worth of goods delivered—about 10th February he brought or sent another order which I declined to execute until the bill was paid—the bill passed through the banker's but was not paid—I did not present it myself—there is an endorsement on it "Gone away"—the matter was then placed in the hands' of the police—I communicated to Mr. Graham what had happened—we have never been paid for any portion of the goods.
Cross-examined by Browning. You might have said you could give me lots of references, but I only took down two—I told you two were sufficient—the goods were all sent for by a strange van—you might have asked our foreman if he knew a carman; you did not ask me—you gave me a paper with the order written on it, but there was no name written on it—when you gave me the order for the bar iron about a month afterwards that had Kingwell's name on it, and you spoke about Kingwell being the coach maker to the Queen and the Prince of Wales, as though it was for him—you did not tell me that King well would not receive it as the price was too much—you may have said that Kingwell would not take it, and I might have said rather than you should lose by it we would take it buck again, I should do it to all our
customers—you did not tell me distinctly that Kingwell would not have it—you mentioned his name but you did not say the goods were for him—you told me that the guttering was for Frazer and you sent his letter so that I mightknow—you brought the order, and Frazer came for the goods—there was no secrecy about it—they were taken away in a strange cart—I did not see the carman—they were signed for by "Predice," who he is I don't know—our usual terms of credit are one month and three months—we don't give six months' credit—we did not supply the iron, we gave an order—I might have asked you to keep the order back—I might have said "If the iron is taken away on 31st December we shall have to pay for that in the December account, but if it is bought on the 1st January we shall get six mouths more"—you might have told me you had been a publican for thirty years and had had fourteen or fifteen houses, I don't recollect that you did, or that you said you had began building, and had built in Barking Road—I never saw either of the other prisoners before.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I did not go to the house in Victoria Road—I only know there was such a man as Reynolds by the letter that I received.
WILLIAM GRAHAM . I trade as Graham & Sons at Trigg Lane—the last witness is my clerk—I recollect goods being supplied to Browning in December—Mr. Wellman consulted me about them—those goods were not supplied entirely from our house, but with my sanction—from information I received subsequently I went to the premises of a man named Usher, an iron merchant and dealer in old iron—I found about 12 tons of iron, but I was not able to identify that personally—some of it was marked with the mark of the manufacturer and of Messrs. Miles, Gould & Co.—it corresponded exactly with the sizes we supplied—I did not go to either of the houses to which we got references.
Cross-examined by Browning. I am not aware that I ever spoke to you—I am sure the iron I found at Usher's was what we had delivered—we found about 6 tons and took it away and we left a few tons there with directions that it should not be touched—Messrs. Miles, Gould's man recognised it and I recognised some, a great deal of it was marked with the maker's brand "M. G. D. & Co."—I went to Kingwell's the coachmaker's in St. Martin's Lane—I found nothing there—I went to see if there was anything because I heard from the detective that some iron had gone there—I think Mr. Rose was the informant—my clerk did not mention Kingwell's name to me.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I did not go to Victoria Road—I never saw. Reynolds and I don't know whether he lived there.
ISAAC VISING . I am a carman in the employment of. Mr. Maggs, of Dowgate Hill—early in January I saw Browning on Dowgate Hill close to my master's office, and I went with him to the premises of Miles, Gould & Co., and loaded about three tons of iron, which I took to Mr. Usher's, in Old Street—Browning told me to take it there and went with me—I left it there—I went there twice and took a little over six tons altogether, all at Browning's request.
CHARLES MARSHALL . I am clerk to Miles, Gould, Druce & Co, 29, Upper Thames Street—we supplied by Mr. Graham's order a certain class of iron goods to Browning—I went to Usher's place afterwards and found the iron there—there was about 11 or 12 tons, I should think—it is worth about 12l. 5s. per ton.
Cross-examined by Browning. I did not find the whole of the iron there that
was supplied to you—we supplied 11 or 12 tons altogether, I think—we found about 12 tons there altogether—I identified about 7 or 8 tons out of the 12 that we supplied—I recognised it from the brand and also by our porter's chalk mark on it—a maker may make for hundreds of people and put the same mark on—I don't know that he only makes for us.
Re-examined. P. Williams & Son, of Tipton, are the manufacturers of this iron and they supply us—we are their agents in London—I don't think there are any other London agents—the chalk mark was made in my presence by one of the men—I saw those bars at Usher's premises and they were the same sizes.
JAMES PAT (Detective Inspector). On 18th March I was engaged in finding out some things that had taken place up at Chelsea, and on that occasion I went with Sergeants Morgan and Gibbs to 25, Quadrant Grove; Gibbs went there rather before us—as we approached the house we met Gibbs with Barker in custody, who gave the name of Charles Harrison Barker—Gibbs handed him over to Morgan, and I went with Gibbs to the house—I saw a person there who said she was Mrs. Harrison—we got into the house and saw another woman, who said she was Mrs. Browning—I went upstairs and found Richard Browning in bed—I said "Browning, there is a warrant for your apprehension in the City; you must get up and go with me"—he said "All right, don't make any disturbance, I will go with you; I know what it is about, it is about Graham's affair, about the iron"—I had known him before, and addressed him as Browning—I had known him by the name of Bradshaw, and several other aliases—he said "I believe I have been put away by either Mumford or Jacobs"—I might say Mumford is a regular swindler—I don't know where he lives now—he did live at Stacey Terrace—that is the address which Browning gave at Peckham—I had known Jacobs by a great number of names—I knew him by the name of Reynolds—I found this envelope on the bed where Browning was—it is addressed "Mr. R. P. Tebb, 83, Lombard Street, E.C."—I told Gibbs to detain Browning in the room while I searched a portion of the house—I found this letter written by Mr. Tebb. (Read: "83, Lombard Street, 17th March, 1875. Dear Sir,—Mr. Thomas Williams, of 2, Trafalgar Villas, Old Kent Road, having applied to me to rent a house 26l. per annum, has referred me to you as to his respectability, and whether you consider him a desirable tenant. I enclose stamped envelope for reply.") I showed that letter to Browning, and he said that Barker had shortly before brought it up to him—Barker was living there in the name of Harrison—I. took Browning in custody and went with him from the house—as we were leaving he asked me where Harrison was—I said "If you mean Barker he, is at Albany Street Police Station"—a conversation ensued between me and the sergeant as to one going to 24, Chalcott Crescent and one going to the police-station—Browning said "I can take you a near cut through Maitland Park towards Barker's place"—I went with Browning to the station, and sent Gibbs off to Chalcott Crescent—he came back to the station with the landlady—Barker was put among a number of other people, and she pointed him out as the person who had lodged at 24, Chalcott Crescent—Barker said "That is very little use, as I don't deny that I resided at 24, Chalcott Crescent"—on the way to the station with Browning I showed him a newspaper in which there appeared an account of some examination of Mr. Usher at the Police Court, Worship Street, in which it stated that persons of the name of Barker and Browning had been mixed up in some swindling
transactions—he said "I don't know how it is I should be called upon to sign a receipt for 5l. by Usher, I shall round on the lot of them."
Cross-examined by Browning. I knew you in the name of Bradshaw at the East End of London—it was not that you were a partner in the firm of Bradshaw & Co., iron founders at Lambeth—we were talking about cabs when you suggested going across Maitland Park—I think the nearest cabstand is close to Chalcott Crescent—you said that was the nearest place to get a cab—I did not say I knew you by a great many names—I am not aware that I said "Bradshaw and several other aliases"—I have known you as Charles Browning, Benjamin Browning, and Benjamin Bradshaw—you told me how the letter came on your bed—it was a large house I took you from, of twelve or fourteen rooms—you had a part of the house.
Cross-examined by Mr. RIBTON. I saw a woman who said she was Mrs. Harrison—I don't know how long Browning had been there—Mrs. Browning said they had only been there a short time and had taken apartments there, and that is all I can say.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I did not see you till you were at the Bow Lane station—I believe I have seen you before at Petwell Street, Camberwell—I have made enquiries, and I have gained a description of you in the name of Reynolds at 31 Victoria Road, Peckham—there are a great many Jacobs in London—I can't say that Browning meant you when he said that he had been put away by Jacobs or Mumford, but I have every reason to believe he did.
SAMUEL GIBBS (Detective Sergeant). On the morning of 18th March I was at the top of Quadrant Grove—I saw Barker leave No. 25 about 9.30—I followed him into Maldon Road and Queen Square and eventually spoke to him—I asked him if his name was Charles Barker—he said "That is not my name"—I asked him if he lived at 25, Quadrant Grove—he said "Yes, I live there, my name is Harrison"—I asked him if he ever lived at 24, Chalcott Crescent, Regent's Park—he said "Yes, I did live there"—I told him I was a police officer and I should arrest him on a charge of conspiracy with J. Baxter & Co., 25, George Street, Chelsea, to defraud various people of their goods—he asked me to show him the warrant—I told him I had not it with me, but he could see it at the station—he said that he never knew such a person as Baxter—on the way to the station I met Inspector Pay and Sergeant Morgan and I handed him over to Morgan and went with Pay to 25, Quadrant Grove, where Browning was apprehended—I saw the two women—I searched Barker's sitting room and found' several documents there, and also in the kitchen—Browning's wife told me in his presence that no other persons lived in the house but Browning and Barker—I found this letter on the mantelpiece in the kitchen. (Read: 12, Nile Terrace, March 16th. Dear Sir,—Will you let me know by return what you said to Mr. Tebb about the house as I quite forget what you told me. I have given you in as reference for some beer at fourteen days'. You are my landlord for six years; they are country brewers and will write. Please answer reference for me for a house. My name will be Charles Clarke in the woollen trade doing the town business for my brother at Leeds. Wife and two daughters, living as above nine months. I formerly occupied a house of yours for six years at Hatcham. I left on account of your selling the property. I paid you 26l. per annum. I must hear all I can to-morrow. I could see you in the City on Saturday at the Cooper's Arms at 10 o'clock if in time. Yours, Samuel Collier.") I also found another
letter to the same effect—Browning was then taken to Albany Street station by Inspector Pay, and I went to 23, Chalcott Crescent and saw Mr. Hamsel, the landlord of 23, who accompanied me to the police-station and identified Barker as the man living at 24, Chalcott Crescent—Pay was also engaged in searching, and during that time Browning said he was put away as he had been put away previously by Bristowe and had done two years—he did not say what about—when he was near Worship Street Police Court one Monday (I can't recollect the date now) previous to his apprehension, he said that he saw Usher, and he did say whether he was the elder or the younger, and he was very near tipsy and they asked him to sign a receipt and they would give him 5l., but he did not do it—on 2nd April I saw Jacobs in Trafalgar road and followed him—I asked him if his name was Samuel Reynolds—he hesitated a little, looked me in the face and said "No, my name is not Reynolds"—I asked him if he lived at 31, Victoria Road, Peckham—he said "No, I never lived there"—I asked him if he lived at 12, Nile Terrace—he said "No"—I told him I was a police-officer and should take him in custody for conspiring with Browning and Barker to defraud Messrs. Graham of 250l. worth of iron—he said "I don't know Barker and Browning, neither do I know Messrs. Graham"—I took him to Bow Lane Police Station and handed him over to Detective Outram, who held the warrant.
Cross-examined by Jacobs: You declined to give your name at first, but you ultimately gave it to the inspector and you gave your address after you had been there about an hour and a half—I went there and saw your wife—that was at 2, Trafalgar Villas.
DANIEL MORGAN (Detective Sergeant). On 18th March, I received Barker from Sergeant Gibbs, and took him to Albany Street Police Station—while he was there Inspector Pay and Sergeant Gibbs brought in Browning, who nodded his head in a familiar manner expressing his surprise to Barker—from the expression I thought they were acquainted with each other—I then said to Barker "Do you know that man," pointing to Browning—he said "Yes"—I asked him what his name was—he said "His name is Smith. He has lodged in" my house with his wife Tory about a month. I know nothing of him"—Barker was then near the fire at the end of the room—I noticed him tearing some papers in his pocket and took possession of them—I produce them—as I took them from him he said "Be very careful with those papers, they are of great importance to me, they are communications between me and my solicitor"—I looked at them, some were addressed "Charles Harrison, 25, Quadrant Grove," and others "Charles Barker, 24, Chalcott Crescent, Regent's Park"—I asked him what his name was—he said "Harrison"—I said "The papers are not all addressed in the name of Harrison, some are addressed Barker"—he said "Yes, my correct name is Charles Harrison Barker. I only lodged a few nights at Chalcott Crescent, and had my letters addressed there"—I found in his pocket-book an acceptance for 14l. 12s., or 12l. 14s. in the name of George Foreman—he asked me several times what was the nature of the charge—I told him I did not know exactly till I saw Mr. Pay—he said "Well, about Baxter, I know nothing about Baxter; I never gave a reference to Baxter or any other person in my life"—he told me he was a skin dealer in the City—I asked if he could give me the address—he said "No"—he should decline to, he should not held any further conversation with me.
JOHN GEORGE LITTLECHILD (Detective). I have known Jacobs about four years—Jacobs is his proper name—I have known him as Dale Banks, Butler and others, which I can't call to mind—he has gone by the name of Samuel Collier—I don't know who lived at 3, Stacey Terrace, the address that Browning gave—I have seen Jacobs write and have seen a deal of his writing—this letter signed Samuel Collier, from 12 Nile Terrace, is in his writing—also the letter dated 3rd December, 18.73, signed Samuel Reynolds, the answer to the reference given by Browning.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I have known you by the name of Samuel Collier, since this transaction, by the comparison of documents—I never spoke to you by that name—I swear to the writing being, yours.
ROBERT OUTRAM (City Detective). I received, warrants to apprehend the prisoners in February—I went to Stacey Terrace to look after Browning; I did not find him there; the house was occupied by a man named Mumford—I went to 31, Victoria Road, Peckham, and found the house was empty—I went to look after Barker at 24, Chalcott Crescent, and found" that house to be empty—I received Browning and Barker in custody on the 18th March from Inspector Pay—I was present when the warrant was read to them—Browning said "Yes, I had the iron from. Mr. Graham's"—Barker said "I have never been to Mr. Graham's, if any one has forged my name I can't help it"—nothing had been said about a reference then—on the following day I took Browning from Bow Lane station to the Mansion House—he told me then he had taken the iron to Usher's and that on mentioning a date Usher had offered him 5l. to make out a bill that he had purchased the iron of him at 9l. 5s. per ton all round and that he. Told Usher he would see him d-first, because some of it was invoiced to him at about 14l. a ton—on the 2nd April I received Reynolds or Jacobs from-Sergeant Gibbs—he was named in the warrant as Samuel Reynolds, otherwise Collier—I said "Samuel Reynolds"—he said. "That is. not' my name"—I said "Samuel Collier"—he said." That is not my name"—I said "What might your name be?"—he said "You are not a proper person to give it to, I will give it to the Lord Mayor"—after some time, when a gentleman had identified him, he gave the name of Samuel Jacobs, 2, Trafalgar Villas, Trafalgar Road, Peckham—I went there with Sergeant Gibbs and saw "a. person who said she was his wife—I found this assessment paper addressed to Mr. Thomas Collier and a brewer's bill in the name of Reynolds and the leaf of "a. copy-book in the name of Miss Reynolds—I had seen Usher previously.
Cross-examined by Browning. You repeated several times that Usher had offered you 5l. for an invoice—you told me what you had "really received from Usher for the iron; I think, it was more, than 5l., it might have been 10l.—you did not say it was warehoused there.
HENRY CHEER . I live at 24, Woodstock Road, Notting Hill—am agent. for the landlord of 24, Chalcott Crescent—I believe it is unoccupied now—it was let to a person named Barker—some one called upon me first and represented himself to be Charles Barker—could not swear to the identity of that person and I said so before the Lord Mayor—it was a very short interview and my memory is rather defective—it was let a little before the September quarter to a person giving that name-we did not get any rent—a broker was employed to make a distraint and he found no goods on the premises.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. It was occupied by a person, named Barker for just over three months—I never went to the house, so I can't
say that it was in a very bad state of repair—I know that the occupier represented that he could not stay in it because it was in such a bad state—Mr. Cutting is the owner—it is my duty to receive the rent and look after the property.
EDWARD CHAMBERS . I live at Clapham Park, Clapham—I let the house 31, Victoria Road, Peckham, on the 29th September, 1874, to a person named Hewitt—I received references from him, but I did not apply to them—I don't know Reynolds as the occupier of the house or in any way connected with it.
WILLIAM TOPHAM . I am a glue merchant of Wilson Street, Finsbury—I know Browning and Barker—I saw Browning at my warehouse in February.—he produced a card with "D. Wood, 27, Adair Street, Kensal Green" on it—he handed the card to my boy: I was not in at the time—he came again the next day—I took him for Mr. Wood, and said "Are you the gentleman who left the card yesterday?"—he said "Yes"—he said that he was a retired innkeeper, that he had an income of 300l., and to fill up his time he occasionally sold glue to cabinet-makers and coach-makers—the card had on it "Cabinet-makers, builders and coach-makers supplied with glue, & c., of every description. Terms, monthly"—he proposed that I should let him have a few samples, of glue to see what he could do with them, and eventually he wanted, me to supply him with a ton, the value of which was 63l.—he said he would pay me 20l. or 25l. cash when he got the goods and the, remainder. by a bill at one month—I required another name attached to the bill as an endorser, and he gave me the name of Mr. Harrison, 25, Quadrant Grove, Kentish Town—I went there and saw Mr. Harrison; Barker is the man—I told him that Mr. Wood had referred me to him, and I wished to know whether he would endorse. Mr. Wood's bill—he said oh, yes he would; he knew him to be a very respectable man, a retired innkeeper, a man of property, and he had no objection to endorse a bill for that amount for him—Browning called again the same afternoon and asked me whether I had been, to see Mr. Harrison—I said I had—I told him that Mr. Harrison might be a very respectable man, but he was not in business, and I should prefer him to give me the name of some man in business to endorse the bill—he said he would give me other names if I. desired them, and he subsequently gave me the name of Taplin—I did not make inquires about him, because I was satisfied it was not bond fide, and I parted with no glue.
Cross-examined by Browning. I addressed you as Mr. Wood—you asked me the terms, and I told you—you did not say Mr. Wood would have no objection to pay 25l.—you said "I shall have no objection to give you 20l. to-morrow, and if you go to Mr. Harrison he will endorse my bill"—you certainly represented yourself to me as Mr. Wood.
Cross-examined by Mr. RIBTON. I only had one interview with Barker—I mentioned Mr. Wood's name to him—I had not the card with me—I don't know that there is a Mr. Wood living at Ramsgate who is connected: with Barker—I told Barker I had been referred to him by Mr. Wood, of Kensal Green, and would he endorse his bill for 40l.—I have not inquired at 27, Adair Road myself, but I did through a commercial enquiry establishment, and that was enough for me.
WILLIAM BANKS RUST . I am assistant to the official short-hand writer to the Court of Bankruptcy—I attended the meeting in the bankruptcy of Joseph Wood, of Ramsgate, an upholsterer—I think there were two days:'
examination—Charles Barker was examined on the first day, and on the second day a man calling himself Richard Browning and Samuel Collier were examined—I can almost recognise Browning, but I should not like to swear positively to him—I don't recognise Collier at all—Barker gave evidence on both occasions—Collier gave his address 12, Mill Terrace, Old Kent Road—Richard Browning gave 54, Regina Road, Tollington Park, and Barker 24, Chalcott Crescent, Primrose Hill—Browning and Collier were called by Barker as his witnesses—he claimed some furniture of a house in Ramsgate which was in possession of the trustees of Joseph Wood, a bankrupt.
Cross-examined by Browning. I said before the Lord Mayor I would not swear to you—I said I had not much doubt, but I could not swear positively.
Cross-examined by RIBTON. I don't remember the date of Wood's bankruptcy—the examinations were on 11th December, 1874, and 29th January, 1875—Wood appeared and was examined—I can't tell you the amount of Barker's claim, it was on furniture which was in some house at Ramsgate, and which he claimed as his—I don't think it has ended yet—the value of the furniture was not stated.
WILLIAM THOMAS STUBBS . I Jive at Myra Grove, Finchley, and am the landlord of 12, Nile Terrace, Old Kent Road—I let it in December last to Jacobs under the name of Collier; he has possession of it now—this the letter I had from him when he applied for the house, it is dated 15th December, 1874, from 12, Grange Road, Dalston, and states "I refer you to Mr. Charles Barker of 24, Chalcott-Crescent, Primrose Hill, my late landlord of whom.I rented a house six years at 28l. per annum, and left in consequence of his disposing of the property."
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I made application for rent a few days after the March quarter, but I could get no reply at the house—there was some one in the house, but the bulk of the furniture, had been removed—it was removed the same morning that I attended the Mansion House to give evidence in this case—I don't recollect the date.
J. J. LITTLECHILD. (re-called). This letter produced Mr. Stubbs' is in Jacobs' writing.
WILLIAM, DENNISON . I am, a fringe manufacturer of Bartholomew Close—my cousin is the owner of 2, Trafalgar Villas, Trafalgar Road—I witnessed this agreement for letting that house to Samuel. Collier, of Victoria Road, Peckham—Jacobs is the man who signed that agreement—he gave references and these letters U and V are the answers, one is signed by Charles Barker, Chalcott Crescent, Regent's Park, and the other E. Hewitt, 31, Victoria Road, Peckham.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. The agreement is. dated 23rd December, but you did not come in for a month after that, I believe your excuse was that you had been laid, up through-attending, the Bankruptcy Court.
RICHARD CUTHBERT NOKES . I am a tea dealer at Little Trinity Lane, City—I know Browning and Barker—about 23rd or 25th November Browning came in and said he had been recommended to our house and gave an order for some tea which came to 9l. 3s.—he did not pay for it at that time—he gave as a reference Mr. Charles Barker of. Chalcott Crescent, Regent's Park—before I let him have the tea I made enquiries—I went to the house, Mr. Barker was not at home, but I found that he lived, there—Browning called the next day and I let him have the tea—he afterwards paid for it—
a few days after he came again and ordered a small amount of tea and some sugar—I eventually let him have goods and fruit amounting to 52l.—on the occasino of the second order I told Browning that for such an amount of goods it was necessary I should have cash or some security for the payment especially as I had not much to do with fruit, and if I supplied him with the fruit he required I should have to give my cheque for it, and I should require payment at a certain date—he said "I will bring this gentleman Mr. Barker who will no doubt accept two bills for me"—he told me that Barker was a; gentleman who had retired from business, and owned several houses in the neighbourhood of Primrose Hill—he brought Barker to my place, and these two bills of exchange were given to me—I drew them, Browning accepted them, and Barker endorsed them in my presence—I saw him write his name on both the bills—they had the goods—I presented the bills at maturity but have received no money on them—the amount of the bills was 42l. 17s. 6d
Cross-examined by Browning. You gave orders for goods amounting to that sum—the bills are dated 16th December, and were payable eight weeks after date at my bankers'—you asked me where they should be made payable, and I said "Either here or at the bankers'; if they are made payable at the bankers' you will have to come here to pay the money or pay it into the bank"—I don't know Mr. Isaacs, a monisy-changer, at all.
JOHN OSBORN . I live at Oxford Market, and have the letting of the shops there—on 26th November I let a shop, No. 6, in the market to Browning, who gave the name of Henry Byrne, 24, Chalcott Crescent Regent's Park—an agreement was entered into—he gave me two references which are on that paper, "Refer to Mr. Reynolds, hay salesman, 31, Victoria Road, Peckham; also, Mr. W. Kelly, 54, Regina Road, Tollington Park, Holloway"—our people in the office applied to those references and had very satisfactory answers—this was one—"Dear Sir, In reply to your enquiry respecting Mr. H. Byrnes, I beg to state he held a house of mine at Barnet fourteen or fifteen years; I regularly received my rent, 35l. per annum, and I believe him to be a responsible man, and make no doubt you will find him a desirable tenant. Yours obediently, Samuel Reynolds"—I did not find him a desirable tenant—goods came to the shop, poultry, pigs, butter, eggs, and all manner of goods, which were taken away either in the morning or the night as they were delivered in the day by railway vans—I gave them notice to quit.
Cross-examined by Browning. I did not see you sign the agreement you went to the office with a clerk to sign it—Byrne did not owe any rent when he went away, because we always have two months down in advance—two months' rent was paid, and you were there two months all but one week—lots of things came there—I don't know whether they were paid for or not.
J, G. LITTLECHILD (re-called). The letter signed Samuel Reynolds is in the same writing as those signed Jacobs and Collier.
JONATHAN WHEATLET . I am a brewer at Tunbridge Wells—in March last I received these two letters signed Samuel Collier.(The first was dated 12th March, 1875, from 12, Nile Terrace, Kent Road, ordering a kilderkin of ale and one of stout.) I wrote for a reference and received a second letter referring me to Mr. Charles Harrison, 25, Quadrant Grove, Primrose Hill—I went to look at the house and made enquiries, and I did not send any beer.
Cross-examined by Jacobs. I did not go to Nile Terrace to see Mr. Collier, and I did not apply to the reference.
J. G. LITTLECHILD (re-called). These two letters, signed Samuel Collier, are in Jacobs' writing.
Cross-examined by Brovming. You supplied me with stoves, ranges, and gutterings, which I fetched from Messrs. Graham & Sons in a cart; the first lot—the second time I got a van, which was recommended to me by the delivery clerk—no secret was made about the matter—I went there with you.
Witness for Jacobs.
MARY ANN JACOBS . At the' latter end of November I came to you at 9, Pepler Road, Old Kent Road, where I brought my child, which you kept till Christmas Day, and you brought him home at dinner time—you and your wife—the lady who came with me is ill and can't attend. Browning, in his defence, stated that as to Graham's case, although he had the goods he had not sold them for half price or three parts of what they cost as he might have done, but had lodged the iron at Usher's to be warehoused. That, as to Mr. Nokes, he had paid him for the first lot of goods, and the bills for the second lot were, altered and made payable at the bank, which he knew nothing of, that he never stated to Mr. Topham that he was Mr. Wood, and that he had never taken the shop in Oxford Market.
Jacobs, in his defence, stated that his name was not Reynolds, that he lived at Pepler Road, and had written the letters at the request of a man named Reynolds, who also told him to sign some of them Collier, and that he knew nothing of Browning and Barker.
BROWNING and BARKER then PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted at this Court, Brovming in February, 1867, in the name of James Bradshaw and Barker in December, 1858, as William Elsom. JACOBS was also charged with having been-convicted in November, 2861.
WALTER BAKER (Policeman G 74). In September, 1861, 1 apprehended Jacobs and he was tried and convicted of obtaining money by false pretences—he gave no name and he was tried as a person whose name was unknown—I was present at the time, and he is the same man—a previous conviction of twelve months' was proved against him then—I produce the certificate. (This was dated the 4th November, 1861, and stated that a certain person whose name was unknown was tried and convicted for obtaining 5l. by false pretences and sentenced to Three Years' Penal). That relates to Jacobs.
There was another indictment against the prisoners with several others, for which see Third Court, Wednesday and Thursday.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday May 5th, and Thursday, May 6th, 1875.
Before Mr. Baron Cleasby.
331. WALTER HIBBERT, ADAM WEILER, RICHARD REED, WILLIAM HAM , and WILLIAM ALEXANDER MATTHEWS were indicted for unlawfully conspiring to coerce William Edgar Graham and others in their trade. Other counts—To coerce the workmen by molesting and obstructing them. Eighth and ninth counts—For conspiring to molest and obstruct the employers and the men, by watching and besetting the housewith a view to coerce them. Other counts—Varying the mode of stating the charge .
MR. HAWKINS, Q.C., with MR. BESLET, conducted the Prostcution; MR. HOPWOOD, Q.C., with Mb. Poland appeared for Hibbert and Weiler; Mr. Crisp for Reed; Mr. Wright for Harris; and Ma Haeris for Matthews.
WILLIAM EDGAB GRAHAM . I can on business with several partners under the style of Jackson & Graham as upholsterers, cabinet-makers and general house furnishers—we have two factories, one attached to the ware house in Oxford Street and the other in Ogle Street; they are perfectly distinct—the course of business at the Oxford Street factory has not been altered, we were working piecework by the union book; by the union I do not mean the Cabinet-maker's Alliance; but a West End society; that is a trades union of the workpeople—the union book is a book that was agreed, upon by the masters and men many years ago—that mode of labour has not been changed at all in Oxford Street—at the Ogle Street factory up to 13th November last the men were paid by day work or by the hour; there was no piece work done there—on the 13th November we gave a notice of our intention to change that system to piece work at what is called "lump prices;" that means that the contract with the workman is for the entire finishing of the article, to take a contract to do so much work at a price—in the notice we gave we offered employment to all the workpeople on the new system—we gave the notice on the 13th that the change would take place on Monday, the 16th—I did not know any of the defendants previous. to the 13th, I had only seen Matthews who had once worked in our place; he was not working there at that time—the other defendants had never worked for us—in consequence of a communication from our foreman I consented to receive a deputation from the Alliance Cabinet-makers Association and I did so on the 16th about 11 or 12 o'clock—before I was asked to receive the deputation the workshop in Ogle Street had been opened for the men to come to work under the new system; only one man and two boys presented themselves—before that there had been about forty in the cabinet shop—the deputation consisted of Ham, Reed, and a man named Bright; Reed began the conversation and Bright followed—Reed asked me whether I was inclined to alter the terms upon which we were prepared to do business, if I would allow the prices to be determined by a shop committee—I said "No"—there was a long rambling conversation after that which had nothing to do with it in particular—I was asked by Bright whether the idea had entered my head that I should not be able to get workpeople—I said no, it never had, that with good shops and good pay we should always be able to get men—they then retired—I did not in any way entertain their proposals; I told them that we wanted to get the best men in the trade, that they might be able to earn what they were worth—after that, on the 17th, we received this letter. (Head: "Alliance Cabinet-maker's Association, 3, Mitre Square. 17th November, 74. Gentlemen—I am directed by the executive committee to inform you that the members of the above association cannot accept the terms proposed to the deputation that waited upon you on Monday. Trusting you will reconsider your determination. I am yrs. obd., J. R. Smith, General Secretary." We replied to that letter on the 19th; this is a press copy of the letter. (This being objected to, Mb. J. R. Smith was called on his subpoena to produce the original, but stated that he had not got it. MR. BABON CLEASBT did not consider the copy could be read.) We then advertised in the London and
country newspapers for workpeople, and on the week following the 16th I think we had one or two applications—about the 24th November I saw Matthews near our factory in Ogle Street with a man named Tommany—I generally went to the factory between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning, and left between 10 and 11 o'clock—sometimes I went there two or three times a day—I always went there in the morning—it was between 9 and 11 o'clock in the morning on the 24th that I saw Matthews and the other—they were walking up and down in Ogle Street within about twenty yards of the factory—they did not enter the factory; they were sometimes 60 or 70 yards from it—they passed up and down—they went up to the factory—when I saw them first they were on the other side of the road—there is a chapel opposite the factory—I can't tell how long they remained there—I only saw them when I went in and when I came out-for about five weeks after that I saw Matthews near the factory every morning—different people were with him, sometimes Ham, sometimes Reed, and a man whose name I believe is Cavers—they were walking up and down, and if any one came apparently applying at the factory or coming near the factory they generally crossed over and spoke to them—I saw that done—I have seen them as late as 5 o'clock in the evening and before 9 o'clock in the morning—I have been there: when they were not there, but as a rule they were there—I don't think I ever saw Ham, Reed and Matthews all three together—I have seen Weiler and Hibbert there for about three weeks, the first eleven days in February and the last week in January, up to the time when they were arrested—I generally saw them when I went to the factory between 9 and. 11 o'clock and when I came out, and when I went at other times—they were in company with other men whose names I did not know, walking up and down and. standing just outside the factory—I have also seen them at midday when the men came out to dinner, about 1 o'clock, and also when they came out in the evening after work—I have seen Hibbert and Weiler together constantly, as well as with others—I have seen about nine persons so con-ducting themselves opposite the factory—I ought to qualify that by saying I have seen nine only for a definite period—I have seen more than ten at one time, of' whom Hibbert and Weiler were part—when workpeople approached the door of the factory they spoke to them and talked to them and walked away with them; that has been at the corner of the factory, which is about 20 yards from the door; the door is in a side street called: Ogle Mews—they have been close to the wall of the factory—I have seen as many as nine or ten at 1 o'clock when the men came out to dinner, and at 2 o'clock when they came back—I did not like it—this kind of-conduct ceased to a great extent after this prosecution commenced, but I saw the prisoners about there occasionally—before the prosecution commenced we bad the very greatest difficulty in keeping persons in our service; after the prosecution was commenced we had not equal difficulty; we had plenty of enquiries.
Cross-examined by MR. HOPWOOD. Ours is a very old firm, and a very extensive one—it might be taken that we discharged the men, we told them that we should not do day work any more—they were told definitely on the Friday that they were discharged on the Saturday unless they chose to take our new terms—the first thing the deputation asked was why the men had been discharged on Saturday—the Oxford Street factory had been working on piece work—that which we proposed at Ogle Street was a different mode to that—the men did not tell me that if we chose to adopt the Oxford Street
system at Ogle Street they would not offer any opposition—I did not know that that was the case—they did not ask me to work at Ogle Street on the union book—they asked me whether I intended to work by the union; book as used in Oxford Street, and I said I did not—that was a book agreed on in 1811—when they asked me that question I had the very gravest doubt whether they wanted me to work by that, because their society does not work by it, and does not understand it—the defendants work lump work them selves; piece work at lump prices—I merely understood that they wanted to know what I was going to do—the system at Oxford Street was piece work in parts, our proposal was piece work in the lump at a lump price, say a table or desk, for which a working drawing is given—frankly our object in. doing that was not benevolence, it was to prevent ourselves from being robbed; I don't think that is too strong a term—it would not give us the advantage of making a bargain with anybody to do the whole at a less price than somebody else—we had no fixed price, but the same price would always be quoted for the same work again—no man is bound to take a contract—we should be entitled to make a bargain with each individual, what he would do it for—I should think I have seen ten men at a time about six times at least, spreading over three months'—at about 2 o'clock, when the men were returning to their work, a little before 2 o'clock as a rule—there were some men from Messrs. Howard's factory which is about 150 yards off—their dinner hour was the same as ours—none of the men ever spoke to me—I don't know whether or not I saw any of our old hands in the street at any time.
Cross-examined by MR. CRISP. We had about forty men employed at Ogle Street in November—Stride was one; Parr was foreman; Woodrow, Jewell, Carr and Russell—Jewell was the only man who remained in the service with the two boys—Carr is foreman of the polishers, and has been there all along; the notice would not apply to him—Woodrow did not remain, he went out on the Saturday or Monday—I don't quite know how Jewell was paid prior to the discharge of the men—afterwards he was paid by piece work I think—I can't say for certain, I mean lump work, I believe he had to make a contract, but I don't know, because some of the men began by working day time again, to finish the work that was in hand—I can't tell 'you whether Jewell was one of these, my foreman will be able to tell you—I believe all the men who entered the service after 24th November adopted the piece work system, the foreman can tell you—I know several:' of them began day work to finish the work in hand, and after that they went on at lump work—when they left nearly every man had one or two pieces of furniture that he was making to finish, and some of that was not finished for five or six months—during that time payment by the hour was not going on, they were working lump work—I think all the finishing was day work, and that has continued up to the present time—their may have; been one man working day work to finish—we manufacture our own cabinet work—during the strike we had to buy a few things—a great many upholsterers in London do not manufacture, they are supplied by trade working masters—as a rule they are cheap houses and can under sell us, except in machine made furniture—our adopting the lump system would. not be quite the same thing—we should be more able to compete with the cheap houses, it would benefit the men—it would benefit both parties—it was not entirely to compete with the cheap houses; in part it was—I made a note of the time when I saw Reed (referring), it was the second week in
December, and the first week in January, and I think on no other occasions—Ogle Street is not above 80 yards long—there is a public-house at the corner of Ogle Street and Foley Street—I don't know the name of it; it is kept by a man named Tennant—Ogle Mews leads out of Ogle Street, it is a culled sac—the entrance to the factory is in Ogle Mews—this (produced) is a very good map of the place—the public-house is about 30 yards from the factory—I think it is frequented chiefly by our men—Messrs. Howard's men frequent three other public-houses, they would not come that way.
Cross-examined by MR. HARRIS. Matthews came to work for us on 4th October, 1872, and remained till March 28th, 1874—I expect I saw him every morning when he was there—I. have no doubt about his being in the street on 24th November, I never had any doubt about it, I believe he was there the whole of the week—I said before the Magistrate "I saw a man whom believe to be the defendant Matthews"—Laws told that his name was Matthews by the men who worked with him and knew him—I did not know his name when he was working with us—I asked the other people who he was, and they said his name was Matthews, that he had spoken to them and they knew him—I have no doubt he is the man—I saw him within 20 yards of the factory walking up and down—I have heard of a system called the "sweating" system; I think I can explain what it means; it is not the lump system; as I understand it is this, when a man takes a contract per lump he is allowed to have his son or a lad as an apprentice to him or to work for him, and he takes all: the money and pays his son what he likes, and he reaps the benefit and not the master—piece work is where a man is for instance paid for parts of a table, such as the claw, the pillar, or the top, and the lump system is a contract system, by which the parts would not be separated as you mean, but they are separated in as much as the machinery does part, but he contracts for the whole-table—it was the lump system that I wanted the men to adopt—I believe that system is not known in the trade as the sweating system; I have explained what I believe to be the sweating system.
Cross-examined by MR. WRIGHT. Ham was picketing the first week in. December.
Re-examined. I did not make any proposition to the deputation, nor did I authorise them to make any proposition to the men—I did not in any way, recognise the right of the society to interfere with our mode of carrying on our business—I told them that it would be a contract between the men and the foreman, and that the workman might consult his bench mates before taking out the contract—we never closed our workshop or factory, except in the sense that we desired to alter the mode in which the men were paid.; they were never closed for a moment—the-real reason for our making the alteration was to get the best men—before making the alteration my attention had been called to the cost of labour, and I bad reason to believe it was costing too much, that is, in proportion to the articles made; that was not entirely the reason for making the alteration; we wanted better men, that was the main reason; they would not come to work at 9d. per hour, they said they preferred piece work or. lump work—I could see Matthews and the other men on looking out of window; they were constantly walking up and down and disappearing and going in and out of the public-house; it depended on the weather to a certain extent—I could see sufficiently of them to see that our warehouse was the object of their attention, and one of them, sometimes two, took refuge in a wheelwright's shop in the mews
immediately opposite and used to watch from there when it rained—those men were Weiler and Cavers, at least I believe that is his name.
JOHN BRANNAN LAMBERT STRIDE . I live in London Street, Fitzroy Square—I am now in the employment of Messrs. Jackson & Graham, and have been so ever since the latter end of last May—in November I was a member of the Alliance Cabinet-makers' Society—I remember the notice which was given by Messrs. Jackson & Graham, of their intention to alter the mode of payment—on Saturday 14th, a meeting was held on the subject at the King and Queen public-house, at the corner of Foley Street; it was a meeting of the workmen of the firm belonging to the society, Ham was the chairman, Weiler and Reed were present—there was a discussion upon the subject of Messrs. Jackson & Graham's proposed alteration, and an arrangement was made that none of us should go in to work at the factory again until it was announced by the executive committee that the shop should be thrown open again, it was closed until then—we were not to commence work again till we had orders from "the executive committee—it was proposed that a deputation should wait on Mr. Graham, to see if he could make arrangements for our coming into work again under the old system—a resolution was passed that we should sign the book each day at the society house, the King and Queen, between 10 and 12 o'clock in the morning and 2 and i o'clock in the afternoon, to receive strike pay, that was a guinea a week, the regular strike pay—I heard something said by some of the executive, I won't be certain whether it was the" chairman or secretary, about advertising in the. different papers and sending to the different secretaries of the society to block all towns they had correspondence with to prevent men from being sent to fill our places—I spoke as to my desire of going back and trying the new system, and I was scarcely allowed a hearing—I said there would be other men to take our places from all parts of the country, only too glad to get in if we came out, and that was the answer I received, that they would advertise-after the deputation had waited upon Mr. Graham, there was another meeting, on the 16th—Mr. Ham took the chair—the matter was discussed by several members, I among the number, and each had a hearing but myself—there was one or two besides that were anxious to go back, but they said' they would abide by the decision of the executive committee, that they should like to go back and try it, but they would not if the executive wished" them not—Reed was present at that meeting, and I am almost certain Weiler was—one of the members; I can't say which, said "Had we not better keep some pickets on the. outside of the factory to watch the premises; I will go as one," and the chairman remarked "Don't be in too great a hurry, that will come on very likely by-and-bye; if you listen to me you will wait till you get orders from us"—the subject of picketing was discussed among them, but nothing further, as I know of, arranged—on the Tuesday, I resigned my membership of the society, and on the Wednesday morning after breakfast I went back to my work in Ogle Street, and except when I have been ill I have been working there ever since—I did not see any picketing the first day—I did some five or six days after, or it may be a day or two more; I first noticed some men walking up and down outside the window close to the head of my bench where I could look out and have a view of them all day long—I don't remember who I first saw—it was in Ogle Street—ray place looks into Ogle Street, facing the church—it was generally after breakfast that I saw them walking up and down—I
scarcely ever saw them before breakfast that I remember, and it continued up to 7 o'clock in the evening more or less—our breakfast is at 8 o'clock, we have half an hour—to the best of my recollection I have not. seen anybody when I have gone to work in the morning, not to notice them; sometimes it was dark in the morning—this picketing continued as far as I was cognisant of it up to the second Tuesday, in February, which was the Tuesday prior to my going to the Police Court on the Thursday—it was about the same each day during the whole of that time, from morning till evening; if I looked out at many different hours I would see them—I have seen from two to four men engaged in this occupation, sometimes two, sometimes three, sometimes four—I have seen all the defendants engaged in it, some more than others, Matthews most—he was there very often, in all weathers—next to Matthews Weiler was most frequently there—I saw Ham one week almost every day, at intervals—being a member of the executive, he was similar to a sergeant walking about to see that, the men were on duty—Hibbert was the last I saw there—I saw him the last morning of any—he was walking up and down in the same way—I-saw Reed at several intervals, but not very frequently, he was doing the same as the others—I might have seen him before, but I was not aware who he was till I asked, and after that I noticed him—he stopped me one morning as I was going back from breakfast—I can scarcely: say which of the defendants I have seen together—I have seen. Reed in conversation with the others that were on picket more than once or twice—I have not seen the whole five together that I am aware of—but I have seen Reed with each of them at different times, walking up and down—have seen several of them together walking up and down, I can. scarcely tell which, because I little thought it would come to this, or I should have taken greater notice—when I have seen them, whether together or not, they have been doing the same thing as the others—I have been spoken to by Matthews, on one occasion—followed me into. the Wheatsheaf public-house in Upper Marylebone Street, when I was coming from my work going to my dinner he followed me along with some of the new hands till he saw where we went, and then he came in and commenced conversation about the work, and who the men were that were with me—he then asked me if I would have a glass of ale with him—I said I had no objection—after that he stood a glass of wine or gin, and he left me at the counter and turned his conversation to. the new hands—he tried to influence them, I can't say exactly what he said—he persuaded them by all means to come out—as near as I can recollect he said "Don't you think you are acting very foolish to stay in there and work, when if you come out we can get you other shops, as good as that or better"—they said they did not see as they were doing anything detrimental to their cause, they wanted work, they understood that they were giving very good prices 'and they had always been used to. piece work, therefore they should try it for the present—he then asked me if I could not influence them to come out, and why did 1 not come round to the society house with him on the next lodge night and get reinstated to, the society again—I said "I am very well satisfied where I am, I am very comfortable at present, and until I see things take a change I wish to remain where I am"—I told him that all I wanted was good work and to be well paid for it, which I had got at present—he said he was surprised at me after my being a leading man in the society at Bristol as the secretary for some time, setting such a bad example—he wished me to come out and they would support me, and anything in
reason that I wanted they would furnish me for coming out, he had got that authority—I still stood to my previous answer—when he was leaving there was another person in the trade with him that I was not acquainted with, and he said "Mind, I hope I shall see you on the next lodge night, I shall be looking out for you, I shall speak to them about you, we want to get you back again as you will be useful to us"—I did not go—I saw Matthews again a few days after—he frequently spoke to me on the subject, he would follow me—we generally went to this public-house, being the nearest I passed coming towards my home—on one occasion he said to me "Of-course you are aware you will be called a black, go where you will, and you will find that you won't be able to get any work in any shop in London or else-where where there is any society of ours held"—on one occasion Reed spoke to me as I was-coming from my breakfast, and just going into the factory, he beckoned me and said "How are you. getting on inside, how is things looking with the new hands" and while we were in the midst of conversation Mr. Rawlins, one of our foremen, came up and I went away into the factory—the picketing went on after these conversations just the same as ever.
Cross-examined by Mr. HOPWOOD. I have been ill for some, little time past—we had-two meetings at the lodge-house, one on. the Saturday and one on the Monday after the" deputation had seen, Mr. Graham—I had not been a member of the society ever since I had been in London, only since. I commenced working for Jackson and Graham—was secretary to the Cabinet-makers' Society at Bristol; it was a society that was understood to protect the interests of the men-against the employers—it is generally understood that a man is considered a black if he opposes himself to the rest of the society—I-have never treated any so I never had occasion for it—at the meeting on the Saturday I most emphatically opposed coming out from Jackson & Graham's; I say that on my bath—I did not vote either time—there was a division; some went to the right and some to the left—the side I happened to be sitting, at the right, voted for coming out—I sat there, but I did not vote—I never held up my hands—I did not know they were going to divide—I can't say how many went to, the other side of the room—I can't say that one went—I announced on that occasion that I differed from the rest—I had two or three says, and they put me down on each occasion—I heard more than two say they wished to go back; I heard two I am certain besides myself, but there were more than two—I can't say how many were there; all the men that were at work at Jackson & Graham's—I did not go back to work on lump work; I went on at day work for a month or two, finishing the. work I had left unfinished.
Cross-examined by Mr. Crisp.-When I went back to Jackson & Graham's I found one grown man and two boys I think in the shop where I was working—I can't say what work the man was doing; I did not go to look—I was given to understand that he was working day work as-usual, but I can't say—it must have been at the latter end of January that I began to work lump work—it was at my own suggestion that I commenced it, because I could make more money—it was no use-my suggesting, it before; there were the rules of the shop to abide by—when I commenced lump; work I did not have a boy working under me; I had my son with me; he. is almost big enough to be a man; he is between 16 and 17; he would be called a lad in the warehouse—I can't say whether having a lad working working under you is called the "sweating" system; I should not consider it so myself; I can't answer for my fellow-workmen—I remember when piece
work at lump prices was commenced at Jackson Graham's—there is a distinction between lump work and piece-work at lump prices; that com-menced as soon as the new hands came on—there was a lot of work to be finished, but the new-hands generally, had new jobs given to them—I can't tell you any one of them; there were, several strangers to me, and they were got out again by the pickets—the: lump work began immediately the fresh men came on—I was at day work finishing my jobs—the men who tried to get me away, did not know what system I was on;-of course they were given to understand that the. lump-system would be the system for the future, and so it will be.
Cross-examined by MR. WEIGHT. It was both in November and December that I had these conversation with Matthews-had conversation with him: on several occasions—the" last I have spoken to was in December.
GODFREY WILLIAMS PARRY , I became foreman-of the cabinet, shop of; Messrs. Jackson & Graham in Upper ogle Street on 5th August, 1873; that was when I entered the service—I continued to be foreman down to November, 1874; up to that time the men were paid by the hour—it was my place as foreman to see that the work was done—found that it was not done in accordance with my requirement—on 13th November, a notice was given of an alteration in the mode of payment—on the morning of; the 16th, when the new system was to commence, one man came to work, the two boys were in—on the Thursday I think I saw all the old workmen, they came to take their tools away—I don't remember any fresh men presenting themselves for employment during that week I think Stride came on the-Wednesday; but I am not positive—he continued to work—was paid by the hour for five or six weeks as he was finishing some work—I first noticed the picketing on the; Monday; 23rd November—I am not quite certain which of the defendants were-picketing that first week—I saw men-walking; up and down from about 8 o'clock in the morning until about 5 o'clock in the evening; there were generally two, sometimes: three—some fresh' men presented themselves in the week commencing the 23rd, I think one man called that week and arranged to come in on the following Monday morning; he did come at 6o'clock and remained till 1o'clock, when he went to dinner he then returned and took away his tools—don't know his-name-at that-'time the picketing had: commenced—dare. say about half a dozen men came in the week beginning on the 23rd, some of them brought in their tool and some did not coma in at all—don't know the names of those that brought their tools in and took them-out-again, because the names were not taken—saw some of the men that applied for work spoken to by the persons that were picketing outside-about three out of the six brought in their tools and took them way again—don't know that I saw those three spoken to but they told me what had happened the first week after the notice was given scarcely anybody applied for work, and no systematic picketing was resorted to, but the week following it commenced—in the week beginning November 30th some fresh hands came in; I think Peter Galliard was the first that came in, but I am not quite positive which week he commenced—the system of the shop was explained; to; him and he accepted the times, it was piece work at lump prices—he is working there still—I have not seen him spoken to by men outside the next man engaged I think was Tame he is working up to the present time—I am not quite positive whether he came in that week—Duck, H. Brown and Baker, I think, came in that week; they are still in the service on piece
work, lump prices—I noticed the persons outside during these weeks; they were there all day—I have seen all the defendants there from time to time—this continued down to 11th February, when they were taken into custody—I found a difficulty in getting men to come in—the men were walking up and down in front of the premises—that was all that I personally saw them doing; it continued all day, from about 8 o'clock in the morning till about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, there were generally two, sometimes three—I have seen a greater number than that outside the factory, but I could not say they were picketing; by "picketing" I mean watching the premises with the intention of preventing men coming to seek for work—I saw Matthews for about three weeks or more picketing in company with another person—Ham I saw I think for a week—I am not positive whether Reed was there more than a fortnight, and I am not positive whether the two weeks were consecutive—Weiler I saw about three weeks, some weeks were consecutive, and Hibbert I observed about two weeks at the end of the picketing—I can't positively state the number of men that came for employment from 23rd November to 11th February, but I should imagine about twenty or thirty, who did not come in to work—somewhere between" twenty and thirty did come into work, but some left—I distinctly remember-two leaving that is three altogether I did not know that they were going to leave before they left; they did not finish the work on which they-were engaged-after the defendants were in custody new hands applied for work; we had no difficulty in getting hands after that, after the picketing had ceased, and they continued to work on the contract system, at lump prices—since the picketing ceased I do not remember an instance of a man leaving without finishing his work—whilst the picketing existed one or two men made complaints to me, one in particular, Clark.
Cross-examined by Mr. Hopwoop. I did not see any of our old workmen in the street, I am glad to say they were too much of gentlemen to come and watch the place—I will swear I did not see many; I may have seen one or two—since we have had the new system we have had some men go away; I only remember three leaving of their own accord.
HENRY BROWN . I live in Sherborne Street, and am a cabinet-maker—I have-been working at Messrs. Jackson & Graham's five or six months—I went there in the latter part of December—remember seeing persons watching outside the factory in Ogle Street—some of them have spoken to me—I don't know them—they were picketing there—I have seen Matthews; he spoke to me once, before I went into the' service; it was in a public-house—I was asked to go there by a man I don't know, and Matthews was there; he-spoke to the other man he persuaded me not to go in; he-said "Do you know that you are doing wrong by going there?"—I said "I don't know that I am doing wrong"—he said "Well, I can inform you that you are; have you taken out a job at a price?"—I said I had got a price that was satisfactory to me—he said he did not think it would last—he did not deny but what I had got a good price by what I said, but he did not think I should maintain it—something was said to me about what would happen after the strike was over; that was not said by Matthews—I can't say whether he was present; he was in the house, in in front of the bar—I was in a private room with ten or a dozen men; I can't say who they were; the man who brought me to Matthews was one of them; they were men that had beenin Matthews' company; I had seen one or two of them picketing four or five times—Matthews was in and out
of the room—the man that first spoke to me I have seen picketing, but I have not seen him since; he was alone, acting as a picket, "when he spoke to me—I have told you all that took place with Matthews with one-exception—he said he would make—t answer my purpose to come out; that's all—he said if I worked along-with society men I should-be affected in someway; I should not be thought so much of as they were—I don't know what society men are more than me—I am a non-society man; I reckon so—society men are a lot of men combining, together, I suppose—I have been followed by the men who were picketing I might say every night in; the week—I have been accompanied, I could not say followed, as far as Gower Street and King's Cross on my way home, and I was spoken to by a man named Cavers, one of the men who were picketing. (Mr. Hawkins proposed to ask what Cavers said. Mr. Harris objected, there being no proof that he was engaged in the alleged conspiracy Mr. Baron CLEASBY considered the evidence admissible, on the ground that Cavers was seen acting in concert with Reed; if two persons were together doing an act which bore the, character of watching and besetting, what each did was evidence against all, and what Cavers said here, was in reality an act done by him.) We walked partly, home together, and discussed different, matters about business and about the shop, and he persuaded me to come out, and told me of the consequence—said if I went into a society shop. I should not get a job and should not stay there the picketing did not prevent my going Out, but I-would not go out on account of it—did not wish to be bothered about it; it made it unpleasant for me to go out, and that was why I kept in.
Cross-examined by Mr. HOPWOOD. I worked at Mr. Dyer's in Northampton Street before I went to Jackson & Graham's—I Dyer's—they did not complain of my conduct—was not offered better wages at Jackson & Graham & I did not get better—I really left for the sake of change.
WILLIAM HINES I live in Gray's Inn Road, and am a cabinet-maker—went to work for Messrs. Jackson & Graham last November (before that I was, working at Dyer's, in, Essex Road, Islington)—I went to Work on piece work at lump prices—saw Matthews the same week I went there, he was alone in Ogle Street about 6 o'clock in the evening; as I was leaving work he was at the corner of Ogle Mews and Ogle Street; he spoke to me and asked me the reason I worked in the shop—told him—went and got work there—and Gilliard were together we walked on and Matthews followed us to the corner of Howland Street, Tottenham Court Road; that would be about 200 or 250 yards—he did not speak to us as we were walking, but before he left he asked us if we would come out of the shop—I said I would not under present circumstances—offered me money to come out, the same as I was getting at Jackson & Graham's-l: had not told him what I was getting, there—he said he would like me to come round to the society-house that is the King; and Queen public house—said-no, I did not care about it—he said I should be thought by the society a black sheep if I went to work, if I went to work in any of the principal towns in England or in London and I should not be able to getwork—he has spoken to me several times after that, at times alone and at times when he has been in company with men who are not here, I don't know their names—he. has merely offered me money to come out—I have seen persons walking up and down opposite the factory that has been going on days and days at a time from the time I first went to work up to the 11th February when they were prosecuted—I have seen, I should think, three or four on an average
walking up and down, from 8 o'clock in the morning till 7 o'clock in the evening—I have noticed Matthews, Hibbert, and Wetter doing that—I have seen Ham there, but not from 8 till 7 o'clock—I have seen him walk up and down the street; that is all; neither of the others—none of the; defendants besides Matthews have spoken to me—Matthews mentioned Stride to me, and said that he was a-black sheep among the flock—I know Cavers, I have seen him with the others walking up and down from 8 a.m. till evening; I don't know that I have seen him in company with Matthews—I have seen him picketing up and down Ogle Street, from Foley Street to Marylebone Street, for the whole day in company with a man whose name I don't know—I have not seen him in company with either of the defendants that I know of—when Matthews followed me to the top of Albany Street he said he would like to have Stride there and see him hung—Gilliard was with me—I did not like this, being spoken to every time I went in and out of the shop.
Cross-examined by Mr. HOPWOOD. I left Dyer's perhaps, a week before the last witness, about eight or ten of us left, and I went to Jackson & Graham's—Dyer had about 300 workmen.
Cross-examined by Mr. HARRIS. I have been in the cabinet-making some time—I have heard the term "black sheep" used in the trade—I had no occasion to write down what was said to me—I had a subpoena to attend on the 5th—I can't tell you the name of the man who came; he did not put!' any questions to me; he did not suggest the term "black sheep" to me—I ¦ gave my statement according as I heard—t from the men themselves; I: have a good memory—I had my subpoena yesterday—that was not the first time I was seen about it—I was before the-Grand Jury last Sessions; that was the first time I heard of coming before anybody—I heard of the proceedings before the Magistrate the second time, and I went to hear what they had got to say—I was not called as a witness—I was not spoken to there about it, it was at the shop afterwards—I had a half-holiday to go to the Police Court, and I had to pay for it—I was-spoken to before the case began here, somebody asked if I knew anything about it—I did not say they called me a black sheep, I said that they said I should be a black sheep if I did not come out of the shop—I never had any conversation with Mr. Oliver about it, or with Mitchell—perhaps I might have mentioned it to my foreman; he did not suggest the term black sheep to me; I had no conversation with him about the case till I was brought up as a witness—I can't say who I first mentioned it to; I don't know that I mentioned it to anybody before the solicitor—I have not overdrawn at Jackson Graham's that I know of; I don't think I have—I have never been spoken to about it.
Re-examined. Gilliard was present when Matthews said I should be thought a black sheep—I made my statement voluntarily to the solicitor at Jackson & Graham's—he put one or two questions to me and I answered him—no one else was present nor was I present when any other witness's statement was taken—I worked at Dyer's at piecework at lump prices—none of the defendants worked there that I know of, they were strangers to me.
PETER GILLIARD . I live at 8, Caledonian Road, and am a cabinet maker—I am a native of Guernsey—I entered the employment of Jackson & Graham on 19th November, before that I was working at Guernsey, I had never been in London before—I do not belong to any society or trade union, I did not
know any of the defendants—I went into the shop in Ogle Street on 19th November, and have continued there till-now—between the" 19th and 23rd November I saw several men watching the premises, I can't tell who they were—I was spoken to by Matthews—I saw him an two or three nights about four days after I had been there, he was in Ogle Street from 5 o'clock to 5.30 as I was leaving work—he was standing still, I had to pass him—asked me to come out, I said I would not—he said if I did not it would be all the worse for me, that they should win the day and the society men would be sure to go back—he said he would give me the same amount I was earning if I would come out, that they would find me another shop or pay me my expenses back home again—Hines was with me—another night I was spoken to by-three men, I do not know them—I had seen men in the street outside the factory walking up and down watching the men come out—I saw them there pretty well every hour of the day, that continued pretty well up to Christmas, or past Christmas, I can't say; I think it ceased near about the time when the men were. taken up by the detectives, I could not say that I have seen any of the defendants watching the place to get the men out—I did not see them many times—about four men were usually in company-Hines was with me when Matthews spoke to me again—he asked us near about the same thing, and if we had altered our mind—he had followed us from the factory to Howland Street, it was after leaving work at 5 o'clock—it was about two or three nights after the other conversation—asked us if we were cabinet makers—we said "Yes"—he said "You work at Jackson & Graham's, don't you?"—I said "Yes"—he asked if there was a man named Stride workings in the shop—I said "Yes"—he said "Do you know that he was a society man?"—I said "Yes, he has told me so"—said "He has left the society on account of this affair, he is no man, he is a black sheep, and I should like to see him hung"—he said we had better come out of the shop, that we should be sure to turn out and the society men would go back, and-we should stand no chance at all, that they could not get men enough to work in the firm from any part of London—he said he would see us on another night to see if we agreed to come out, and we were to go and tell him at the society house in Ogle Street—he said he would give me the same amount of money and keep me till I got work, and find me another workshop to work in—I said I would not listen to any of them, that I should work on my own opinion and stop there as long as I could—did not go to the lodge house: at all—was spoken to by three men the next night, who asked me near about the same thing—I was spoken to three or four times altogether—on coming from the factory I saw persons in the street watching the premises, every night pretty well, I do not know who—they were—felt liat Her uneasy about it for a little time.
REGINALD CORDSLAND CLARKE . I am a cabinet-maker and live at 8, Crown Court, Soho—I am working for Messrs. Jackson & Graham; and have been since about. 27th November last—I-have noticed persons outside the factory, two or three at a time, some times more, sometimes leaning against the lamp-post facing the factory sometimes walking up and down, from about 8 o'clock in the morning till 5o'clock in the evening—this was the case every day—I saw them speak to several of the men going in and out—I went in on the Friday, and I was spoken to on the Monday following by Matthews, he asked me if I was working at Jackson & Graham's—I said "Yes"—he asked if I was working day work or piece work—I told him I was working day work at that time—he said it was
pity it could not be altered—that was all he said—several others that were picketing have spoken to me and persuaded me to leave my work unfinished and bring my chest out, but not the defendants—I had seen Matthews there before he spoke to me, walking up and down with others—Flackey and Charley were two of those that spoke to me, those are their Christian names—I went on piecework from seven to eight days after I went there—I was spoken to after that, my contract was unfinished when Flackey and Charley asked me to bring away my tools—I had seen them before that walking up and down at the corner—I can't say that I saw them with Matthews—I have not been spoken to by men that I have seen in company with the defendants—I have seen all the five defendants walking up and down between 8 o'clock and 5 o'clock, up to the time they were apprehended, not together, separately, walking up and down—I generally used to work till 7 o'clock, because 1 did not like passing in and out, it upset me so, to see some of them grinning so much—I should have left earlier but for that—I made a complaint to the foreman.
Thursday, May 6th, 1875.
HERBERT WOODBOW . I am living at 27, Longford Street, Regent's Park. I am a cabinet-maker—I am working for Messrs. Jackson & Graham at the Ogle Street factory—I commenced work there about twelve or fifteen months ago, and worked there at 9d. per hour up to 13th November, when the change of system was proposed—I was a member of the Cabinet-makers' Association—I attended the meetings before, and after the deputation waited on Mr. Graham—I know the defendants they were all present at the first meeting after the strike on the. Monday morning—Ham, Reed and Weiler are members of the executive on the strike taking place I came out from working—I attended about three meetings after the strike; there was one on the Tuesday, the 17th—I was not present at any meeting when the question of picketing was discussed—I passed the Ogle Street factory once or twice after the 24th November—I saw some men watching the. premises as I went to the King and Queen, where the society met, to sign my name every Tuesday night—I was receiving strike pay—that is about 400 or 500 yards from the factory—I found most of the members of the society there about forty had left the shop—the secretary of the "West End branch was there, and one or two of the executive committee—I have seen some of the defendants there. on different occasions, Weiler and Reed and Ham—in going through Ogle Street whilst receiving strike pay I noticed men walking backwards and forwards near the factory several times in the morning—we had to sign the book once a day before twelve; those on strike signed in red ink, and those only out of work in black ink—I succeeded in getting a job about three or four days after the strike for about fourteen days, and then I left the job and was out of work again for a week or a fortnight—during that time I noticed persons walking backwards and forwards in front of the factory, one or two at a time; I have not seen more than two—I have seen all the defendants there walking to and fro; this continued up to February—about 23rd December I returned to the firm and applied for a job, and received one at piece work, lump prices—I accepted that employment whilst I was a member of the association—after they heard that I had accepted a job and was about to resume work, Weiler came to my lodging and asked me not to resume work until the strike was finished, and I consented to stay away, I believe a week and more—I received 1l. strike pay for that week, and
Weiler said there was more money coming to me; they were to try on the Tuesday night to see whether they could not bring the strike to an end—on the Wednesday morning I. met Weiler he said that they had had a meeting, and they wished me to stay away longer—said did not wish to, stay away. longer I wished to resume work they offered me more money to stay away 9d. an hour for nine and a half hours the same as I Was receiving form the firm—then there was. the 1l. paid me—he told me I was to sign the-book again, which-1 did—I did not on that occasion see any person in the street outside the factory; it was about 10 o'clock in the morning I had no farther communication with Weiler after, that—I resumed work-about 11th January—I did. not withdraw from the": society I did not see: either of the defendants after I went back to work—on going to and from the factory afterwards I saw persons in the street walking backwards and forwards, sometimes two, sometimes one—I: did not see: them speak to anyone—I saw all the defendants except Reed and Ham; they were not there when I went at 6 a.m.—I have seen them there at 7o'clock and the whole of the day till 6 p.m.—I had-told Weiler before receiving the 9d. an hour that I was going to. resume work—he asked on what conditions I said at piecework, as was given out when-we were discharged that time I had not made any agreement to go back—do not know where oither of the defendants worked—nothing disagreeable to me has over been done by the persons in the street as I went to and from my work.
Cross-examined by Mr. HOPWOOD. When want to receive my strike pay there were a good many men there receiving, or eight of my, old mates, there.
Cross-examined by Mr. HARRIS. Since I resumed) work I saw all the defendants except Reed and-Ham walking; up and down—resided work about 11th January—I don't think I have seen Mathews walking up and down since Christmas one evening about 6.30, I believe the Tuesday before they were apprehended, Matthews came and called me out of the shop he was not acting as picket.
Re-examined. He said "How many-benches are there in the shop?"—told him the number, and he said that was all right—I said "is that you want me for?"—he said "Yes," and away be went. Matthew Brown I am a cabinet-maker previous to November if fast I was working at Mr. Lucraft's in-Murray street, New north road, at piece work—in consequence of an advertisement I went to Messrs Jackson & Graham's factory, in Ogle Street I went on 1st December, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I noticed Matthews marching up 'and down out-side the door—I went in and saw. the foreman and agreed to go to work on piece work—on coming out. I saw Matthews, walking up and down—asked me to go and have something to drink we went to the York Minster; he said that the men-had turned out of the shop because they could not agree about the price, of the work or something of that kind, and asked me not to go in, and he would give me 35s. a week-'while I was out of work—I said I would not go in—he said he would give me 5s. down for my expenses that afternoon, which he did, and I went off—did-not receive any other money—I did not see any of the other defendants about a fortnight afterwards I altered my mind and went to the factory saw the foreman, and took in my tools—that was about 12 o'clock in the-day—I saw Matthews walking up and down—I did not see any one with him—
did not speak to me then—I saw him the next week outside the factory, and he asked me to refund the 5s., and I did so—he said no more—I continued to work up to the present time—from the time I went in, I saw four or five men outside the factory walking up and down from about 7 a.m. till 7 o'clock at night—I recognise Reed—I have seen him in company with other men walking up and down outside—a man named Cavers spoke to me outside one Saturday morning—he spoke to me several times and greatly annoyed me; he was the principal man that annoyed me after I went into work; he was one of the men walking up and down.
Cross-examined by Hopwood. I said I went in at piece work, not at lump prices.
GEORGE HENRY BAKER . I am a cabinet-maker—previous to November I was working at Dyer's, at lump work—I went to Jackson & Graham's to seek employment—to the best of my recollection some time in November, I could not swear to the date, I saw the foreman—I went to work on the Friday and have continued there up to the present time—on the Saturday after I went in I saw some men in the street, picketing, watching the premises—I have generally seen two or three, from about 8 a.m. till 5 o'clock—I recognise all the defendants as having been there—this continued till the commencement of this prosecution—none of the defendants spoke to me in the street—on the Saturday as I commenced work on the Friday, Matthews spoke to me in the Wheatsheaf in Great Marylebone Street—he asked me if I knew that I was doing the men who were out an injury, and likewise doing myself an injury in working there against them—he asked if I would discontinue working there, and why I left Dyer's, as I was pretty comfortable there—I said to better myself—he asked if I would come out—I said no—he asked if anything would induce me to come out—I said no—other persons were present, but not the prisoners—I knew some of them to be cabinet makers, and they said in Matthews' hearing that I should be blacked, and should not get a job anywhere if I continued working there—I was spoken to again between a week and a fortnight afterwards by Matthews at another public-house at the corner of Ogle Street, kept by Tenuant—it was on the same subject—he asked if I still meant to keep at work where I was, and I said "Yes"—a man named Bawling, belonging to the firm, came in and the conversation dropped, and I walked out—nothing occurred to me on leaving work from the men who were picketing.
Cross-examined by Mr. HARRIS. Matthews was within hearing when the men spoke about my being blacked.
JAMES TAME . I am a cabinet-maker—I went to work at Jackson & Graham's about four weeks before Christmas at piece work—I had come from Marlboro'; this was the first time I was in London—I have continued in the service up to the present time—I first noticed men in the street on the Monday as I went in. on the Saturday—I think it was one man, I believe Matthews—he was walking up and down outside—I noticed persons walking up and down outside, and occasionally accosting men that came there for work, up to the time of the men being taken into custody, as a rule I saw about two almost all the day—I recognise the defendants as having seen, them outside, doing what I have described Matthews has, certainly—he spoke to me on the Monday after I went in—he asked whether I intended to stop in—I said "Yes, certainly," and I think I said I had seen some of his friends the day before (Sunday), and they had tried to persuade me to come out, but I intended to stop and stick to my resolution
that I had given them—he did not say anything more—suppose he thought that sufficient—I don't know that this walking up and down affected me particularly, it was rather amusing some times.
WILLIAM SMART . I am a cabinet-maker—I went in to work at Jackson & Graham's on 28th December—I had been working at Winchester before that—I went to see the foreman in the-afternoon—I saw some men in the street—I could not-say distinctly how-many; they were walking up and down—as I came out one of them spoke to me—I went in to work on the following day, and from that time up to 11th February, when the men were taken into custody I noticed persons in the street, on each working day; I saw them stopping persons and asking them their business—I do not recognise any of the defendants-as being—there or speaking to me—I was spoken to three or four times—the effect of the picketing upon me was that I was sorry to think I had come there to work—I tried to keep out of the way, to get away from their speaking to me—it did not make me alter my time of leaving, but I went by a different way.
EDWARD MARCHANT . I am a cabinet maker—I entered the employment of Jackson & Graham in February, I can't tell the date, perhaps a fortnight before the defendants were taken into custody—I applied for work about 9 o'clock in the morning—I noticed two or three men in the street at that time walking about—they spoke to me before I went in—I recognise Weiler as One of the persons I saw walking up and down in front of the factory from time to time—I saw persons doing this at dinner time, and in the evening sometimes, when I went in to work and when I came out—I do not know any of them besides Weiler; tyro or three spoke to me—Weiler spoke to me the first time I went in to ask for work—he told me I was not to go to work there, that I should not get any-work anywhere else in London if I went to 3 work there—I said that did not matter; I wanted to go to work there because my father was at work in Oxford Street—he offered me 27s. a week not to go—he spoke to me again two or three days afterwards and told me not to go to work there and they would find me another shop—I said I did not want to go anywhere else.
RICHAED CARR . I am a French polisher—I entered the service of Jackson & Graham about two and a half years ago—I was in their employment at the time of the strike in November—I did not go out or cease to work—the cabinet-makers went out—I have continued to work there up to the present time—I work from 6 o'clock to 5.30—I have-noticed men outside the factory on working days from the week after the strike commenced up to the time the men were taken into custody—I sometimes saw two men, sometimes three, different men—they were there from 7.30 or 8 o'clock until about 7 p.m.—I have not seen them speak to any of the men—I recognize all the defendants as having been there.
BENJAMIN JEWELL . I am a cabinet maker—I was at work for Jackson& Graham at the time of the strike—I was there ten days before the strike commenced previous to 16th November I was working day-work. 8 d. an hour—I continued to work there after the strike—I did not know any of the defendants before the strike, I saw them shortly after the strike—I saw several persons standing outside the factory—I did not go out to breakfast—I saw them at dinner time and occasionally in the evening—I have seen some of the defendants there, I can't say that I have seen them all, they were standing about—they have not spoken to me—I have occasionally seen them speak to men, I don't know what it was for—I am not aware that any
one has spoken to me at any time in the defendants' hearing—I recognise four of the defendants, not Weiler.
MR. HARRIS applied that two witnesses whose names were on the back of the bill, should be put into the box for cross-examination. MR. BESLEY declined to call them, as he had proved the facts by other witnesses. MR. BARON CLEASBY did not think the Prosecution were bound to call them, although it was a count generally recommended. MR. HOPWOOD desired to know on what counts the prosecution relied; after some discussion MR. BARON CLEASBY expressed a strong opinion that the 8th and 9th counts were those to which the evidence pointed, and upon which the Prosecution must rely. MR. HARRIS submitted that there was no evidence of any attempt to coerce either, the masters or the men. MR. BARON CLEASBY considered the case must go to the Jury. And in, leaving it to the Jury he observed that the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1871 made it an offerce to molest or obstruct any person with a view to coerce him; mere molestation and obstruction would not do, it must be with a view to coerce either the workman to quit his employment, or. the master to alter the mode of carrying on his business Molestation or. obstruction was defined in the Act to be amongst other things, a persistent following a workman about from place to place, and as regards the master, a watching or besetting Ms place of business; those were the offences pointed out by the 8th and 9th counts, and it would be for the Jury to say whether the evidence made out those offences as, against the defendants.
GUILTY — One Month's Imprisonment each.
MR. BESLEY for the prosecution offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
FRANCIS LAY PLEADED GUILTY — Two Months' Imprisonment . No evidence was offered against
MARY ANN LAY.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, May 5th, 1875.
Before Mr. Justice Archibald.
MR. ST. AUBIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. M. WILLIAMS the Defence.
CHARLOTTE MATTISON . I live at 10, Grange. Gardens, Shepherd's Bush—the. prisoner lodged with me nearly twelve, months; she had the parlors—I was present when the constable found, a bottle of something in a work-basket; in her room.
Cross-examined. She is a shop girl at a milliner's—I know that she was in the habit of taking Laudanum—she said. that she could not sleep—she was confined, at my house, about four months before, and was attended by Dr. Hickey—I never asked her what wages she got but she always paid me very well—I know nothing about the father of her child, or whether he left her or not—I cannot say that she occupied my rooms alone, but I never saw anyone there.
SARAH OTTON . I am the wife of William Richard Otton, of 2, Sussex Place, Hammersmith—I had the charge of the prisoner's child—it is a beautiful little girl four months old and very healthy—on Tuesday evening, 13th April, about 8.30 the prisoner came, and while she was there I went
out on an errand for my husband, leaving the prisoner there with my husband and the baby—I had given the baby some milk from a bottle before the prisoner came in, and there was very little milk left in the bottle, which I left on the sofa with the baby—I returned in I think less than a quarter of an hour and still found them there, but there was more milk in the bottle than there was when I went out—the baby looked sleepy, drowsy and very heavy—it was about 9.30 when the prisoner left, but I cannot tell to a minute or two—I smelt the bottle and noticed a very peculiar, smell and so did my husband—it was rather a smoky smell—the baby got worse, and my husband ran for a doctor who came and gave it some medicine and it vomited milk, and afterwards some thing with more of a browny tinge, and the smell of what came from the baby was the same as what was in the bottle—we had to pinch and beat the baby and had great difficulty all night to keep it awake—the doctor took the bottle away—the milk in the bottle came from a milk jug in the same room, there had been some taken out of the jug when I came home, and I had a small portion in a cup of coffee—the prisoner said when I came home that she had put a little more milk in the bottle, and the baby had the bottle when I came back, but I cannot say whether it was in its mouth—I have a basin of warm water to keep the bottle warm.
Cross-examined. My husband was sitting in a chair by the fire when I went out, and I found him in the chair when I came back—I had had the baby since 24th December—I only knew the prisoner for ten or eleven days before the baby was born—Mr. Hickey fetched me, he was the doctor—he is a chemist, but he goes out in accouchements, he came and asked me if I would go with him to the prisoner—I did so, and he introduced me to her and she told me in his presence that she was going to have a baby—I stayed with her during her confinement, and the doctor asked me if I would mind taking care of the baby while Mrs. Moore had a little change at Christmas—he did not tell me what I was to be paid for it, but I asked the prisoner 6s. a week, and she told me she should not be able to afford it, that the father of the child had deserted her, and she could not pay anything except what she could pay out of her earnings—no final agreement was come to, she was going to pay me as well as she possibly could—I did not mention to Mr. Hickey what I was to be paid, but I received from him 5s. a week on three or four occasions—I only had this one child to take care of at that time—I think I received from; Mr. Hickey 1l. 3s. or 1l. 4s., but I really cannot tell, for I had it in such small instalments—that was all I received from him, but I received about 14s. or 15s. from the prisoner—Mr. Hickey did not tell me how he came to be paying money for this young girl—i think she gave him the money to forward to me: he said that she did—I had had one child to take care of for Mr. Hickey twelve months ago, a little boy—that was the child of a woman who he had attended in her confinement—I was paid for that through Mr. Hickey—the child died when it was about seven month's old—those are the only two children I have-taken in—I lived in the Euston Road five or six years ago and kept a lodging-house—I remember one young lady being confined there, and I cannot swear that there were not two, but I have no recollection of an extra one—the one I remember was not so very young, she was nearly thirty I think—she was not supposed to be by herself, the gentleman was very much from home, but he used to be at home at times along with her—he was not at home when the child was born—he used to occupy the rooms with her sometimes
—she left me after she was confined and took the baby with her—she called with the baby some weeks afterwards and went to Margate and afterwards called again to see me with the baby—I do not know what ultimately became of that baby—I do not know Mr. Hickey then—he lives at 31, Silver Street, close to Notting Hill Gate Station—I have known him four or five years as a doctor—he has got a chemist's shop—he never recommended me to look after confinements before I had the little boy—I have seen him since these proceedings, at Hammersmith Police Court, but not to speak to him, he has not been to see me—I saw him outside the Police Court—I was asked questions about him there, but I do not know whether he was in Court then—saw him as we were coming out and spoke to him—he said "Mrs. Otton, how are you?" and I answered him, but we did not have any conversation, I was, in a hurry to get home—I do not know whether she had, been admitted to bail then, but I heard the Magistrate accept bail—I think that was before I saw Hickey outside—when I saw him outside he mentioned about the little girl, and I told him how ill she was—I had her with me outside the Court and he looked at her—I asked him what was the matter with the little boy when it died—I had never asked him that question before though the boy died I think in last July, but I asked him then because a gentleman at the Police Court had asked me what the boy died of—I do not think you are the gentleman who Asked me—Hickey's answer was Weakness"—Dr. Bannister attended the little boy and you can have all information from him—Mr: Hickey-did not attend the little boy—he asked me how I came to mention his name in the matter, and I said because I was asked the question—I don't think he said how sorry he was that his name had been brought into it—I think he said scarcely anything—did not ask him about the money that was paid for this child, and he did not ask me if I had been asked where I got the money from—he did not tell me that he had taken a sum to deliver the woman and have the child provided for—never heard of "such a suggestion—I have not seen Hickey since that; day at the Police Court—I have not seen him about this neigh-: boarhound strolling about outside here—my husband is a plumber and glazier in regular work—I do nothing except keep his house—I am very fond of children, and that is the reason I took them in—I like 6s. a week very well—I had not been drinking that day, nor had my husband as far as I know—he came home from work about 8.25, just before the prisoner; came—he had not had his supper—Dr. Roberts was, fetched to the child, he was the nearest doctor.
Re-examined. I was not to have a lump sum down, but so much a week, 5s. a week will do to. provide for a little baby like that in perfect health—I have had it ever since—that is it.
WILLIAM RICHARD OTTON . I am a plumber, and am the husband of the last witness—I recollect this evening, I came home at 8.20 perfectly sober—the prisoner afterwards came to see her child and then my wife went out for some ale for me—I was talking to my wife in the next room for not more than three minutes before she went out, and during that time the prisoner was alone with the child—we both went back into the room before my wife went out—while she was out I sat in the room with the prisoner and the baby—(the prisoner was not in the house above forty minutes altogether)—she called my attention to the child's strangeness; she-said What is the matter with baby I she does not seem to laugh and take so much notice as she does generally"—I got up and went across to the child and said "I will
see if I cannot make it laugh with me," but I could not—it was very fond of me; it knew me—it was strange before the prisoner left, and it got gradually worse afterwards; its eyes got strange and dim, and its mouth was screwed up—I gave it some salt and water and it did not vomit, and then I gave it salt and mustard with some loo warm water and that made it vomit; it brought up milk first and after wards something which had a most curious smell—the bottle was in the fire-place; the prisoner had put it there. I should not like to swear that I. saw her do it—there was a fire in the room and the bottle was stood in a basin in front of the fire—there was the same smell in the bottle that there was in the child's vomit—I sent" for a doctor and we had to pinch and shake the child all night to keep it awake—I took the bottle to Dr. Roberts, he was the first medical gentleman 1 found—when we came into the room the first time before my wife went away, the prisoner said that she had recruited the bottle and given the baby some milk.
Cross-examined. I did not notice the strangeness about the child before my wife went out, but; I did before the prisoner left—after," my wife left I was in the room, the whole time that the prisoner was there—I saw nothing put into the milk by anybody—the prisoner called my attention to the child looking strange before I noticed anything.
OWEN ROBERTS , M.R.C.S., I am a surgeon, of Silchester Road, Notting Hill—on Tuesday night, 13th April 11 o'clock the last witness same to Dr. Harrison's, house and brought, a, bottle—there was a peculiar smell in it—I tasted it and gave it as my opinion that it had laudanum in it and and some milk food—I went at once to see the child, and gave the bottle to Dr. Harrison's servant—the child, was heavy, drowsy, and pale, the pupils of its eyes were contracted to the size of a small pin's. head—laudanum would produce that state of things—I took the proper remedies With me and prescribed them—mustard and, hot. water would be proper treatment—Mr. and Mrs. Otton were perfectly sober I believe.
Cross-examined. There is laudanum in Dalby's carminative, or opium in some form; that is stuff that is given to children to send them to sleep.
Re-examined. A teaspoonful of laudanum in a wine glass of milk would be a fatal dose to give to a baby like that, half a drop would be a medicinal dose to a child of that age, Henry Frank Egbert HARRISON, M.R.C.S. I live at 9, Park Villas, Shepherd's Bush—on this Tuesday night' I was taken with influenza, and sent for Mr. Roberts to come and see me—my servant brought me a bottle that night, but I was" so ill that I I had to put it on the chimney piece in my bedroom for two days, and when the policeman came for it I sealed it and handed it to him.
EDWARD LAURENCE CLEAVES . I am an any laical chemist and public analyst, of 1, Devonshire; Terrace, Newington—Coachman, the policeman, gave me these two bottles; the baby's bottle was about one-third full of food which I was asked to analyze, it smelt of laudanum; I tested it for laudanum and found laudanum—there was about a wine glass and a half of it, in which I found a teaspoonful of laudanum, I cannot; swear exactly—there was laudanum in the other bottle.
to her child—she said "I never gave the child anything at all; Mr. Otton was in the room the whole of the time, and he could have seen if I gave the child anything at all"—on the way to the station she said "Is the child dead T'—I said "No"—she said "I am glad I have not killed it"—those were her words as near as I can remember—those were the exact words—the words were "I thought I had killed it"—she then asked me if I would allow her to go home to her bedroom for a few minutes—I declined, and she caught hold of my arm and asked me to allow her to go home only for one minute—I took her to the station—she gave her right address, and I then went with Couchman to her house 10, Grange Gardens, Shepherd's Bush, and in a work-basket in her room I saw Couchman find this small bottle three-parts full of a liquid labelled "Laudanum," which he gave to the chemist.
Cross-examined. The prisoner did not say "It looked as if I had killed it to take me in this way"—I heard the landlady say at the Police Court that the prisoner had been in the habit of taking laudanum.
JESSE COUCHMAN (Policeman X 393). I was with Borner when the prisoner was apprehended, and he said that he should charge her with administering poison to her illegitimate child with intent to kill it—she said that she had never given the child anything, and Mr. Otton was in the room the whole of the time, and that if she gave it anything he must have seen it—she went 3, 00 or 400 yards down the road, and then asked the sergeant if the child was dead—he said "No"—she said "I thought I had killed it"—I heard her ask two or three times to be allowed to go to her bed-room—after we had taken her to the station I went with the sergeant to her lodging, and found this bottle three-parts full of a liquid labelled "Laudanum"—I took that bottle and the food bottle and gave them to the doctor.
Cross-examined. I was in Court when the sergeant was examined, and heard what he said—he said first that the prisoner said "I am glad I have not killed it"—that is not right; it is a mistake—she said "I thought I had killed it"
GUILTY—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of the strong temptation in which she was placed — Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 5th, and Thursday, May 6th, 1875.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
335. GEORGE FOREMAN, alias BRISTOWE (67) , Unlawfully obtaining from Edward Jabez Greenfield sixty trusses of hay and from William Grimshaw ten tons of potatoes, by false pretences, with intent to defraud.
MR. BULWEB, Q.C., MR. BEASLEY and MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the
Prosecution; and Mr. PEILE the Defence.
SARAH FRENCH GREENFIELD . I am the wife of Edward Jabez Greenfield, and live at Vagers, Southwater, near Horsham—we took a house there in September last, and also a quantity of hay—not wanting the hay, we advertised it in the "West Sussex Gazette" on 29th October, and reference was made to "Delta, Post Office, Horsham"—we received some applications, and amongst them was this one, enclosing a card, "George Foreman, 47, Grove Street, Regent's Park, Milk Contractor and Provision Merchant." (Letter read): "George Foreman, Butterman and Poulterer, Refreshment Contractor for Visitors to the Zoological and Botanical Gardens.
Nov. 7th, 1874. Dear Sir,—Please inform me the particulars of the clover as advertised as to price per ton, cut, trussed and put on rail. Earlyreply will oblige.") I replied to that, and received another letter dated 10th November and sent some hay off—on 20th November I received another letter ordering two tons of the same sort, and stating that he would forward a draft for the two lots—I sent the hay to the Willow Walk Station, consigned to George Foreman, believing the description in the paper that he was refreshment contractor to the visitors to the Zoological and Botanical Gardens—the value of it was 9 guineas—I have not been paid for it or seen it since.
Cross-examined. I had not seen the prisoner till I saw him at Southwark Police Court—all the correspondence was by letter—we did not want to keep this hay, but were not particularly anxious to get rid of it—I sent the hay because I saw he was described as refreshment contractor to the Zoological and Botanical Gardens—I supposed that he kept the refreshment rooms there—I did not. notice the poulterer and butterman so much—I considered if he was that, he was a respectable man—he did not send me a draft—I did not think of asking for a reference because of the statement on the paper.
RALPH HAWTHORS . I am delivery clerk at the Willow Walk Station of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway—on 24th November sixty trusses of hay arrived there consigned from Greenfield, of South Water, near Horsham, addressed to. George Foreman—somebody applied in that name for the hay and. signed for it, and it subsequently was taken away by a carman named Henry Day, who put his mark.
HENRY ENGLEFIELD . I am a confectioner in Baker Street—I have been the sole contractor to the Botanical Gardens until within the last few weeks—I have never seen the prisoner before to my knowledge—he has never been employed by me in any way—I never saw him till I saw him at the Police Court.
FREDERICK TROTMAN . I live at 8, Park Villas, Regent's Park, and am sole contractor for refreshments for visitors to the Zoological Gardens, and have been so for thirteen years—I don't know the prisoner—I have seen him once in a street leading out of Park Street some time ago—he-bad nothing to do with supplying refreshments to the. Gardens—I had had some complaints about things being got, and one of the detective sergeants at Albany Street showed me one of the forms.
WILLIAM GRIMSHAW . I am a farmer at Warrington, in Lancashire," and I am also connected with the "Warrington Guardian"—in January last I had ten loads of seed potatoes, called redskins, for sale—I advertised them for sale in the "Warrington Guardian"—I received a reply on a. similar form to this—I answered that, and got this one. (Read: "Dear Sir;—In reply to yours to hand, can you forward me off at once twenty loads? If you have no sacks please to hire and charge me with the same. Advise when sent off, and on receipt, draft for the amount shall follow. From George Foreman, butterman and poulterer, 47, Grove Street, Regent's Park, refreshment contractor for visitors to the Zoological and Botanical Gardens.")—I had not a sufficient number of sacks, and I purchased twenty new ones and marked them "W.G." and "0," underneath for Orford, where my farm is, near to Warrington—I filled the twenty sacks with potatoes and sent them up on 28th January to the address given—I had some further correspondence with Foreman about some potatoes that were not sent—the value of the potatoes that were sent was 8l. and 1l. for the sacks—I have
applied for payment by letter to that address, but have not received it, and I sent a friend there also—I have not seen my potatoes since, or had the money—I thought he was the contractor, or I never should have sent them.
HENRY BUSCH . I live at 47, Grove Villas. Camden Town—the-prisoner lived next door to me and camped on business there in the name of George Foreman—goods came in in the night and went out quickly again—I saw some railway vans come up, and letters and cards came; potatoes, meat pigs, ham, butter, cheese, and eggs—I did not see any hay—the goods went out again quickly, they never stopped-long in the place—the prisoner came to the house—n August last, but before coming he asked me to take in letters and I did so—they were addressed to George Foreman—I-saw some potatoes come towards the end of January in new sacks—the sacks were marked, with three-letters, two at the top and one underneath, and one letter at the top was a W—I saw-some redskin potatoes in the shop afterwards—I am a hair-dresser—about two or three months after the prisoner had been there he asked me why I did not fit up my shop better—I said "What's the use of talking like that, I have not money to-fit my shop up"—he told me to go to Hoffmann and Sons to get machinery and perfumery to fit up the shop nicely, and if I went; short of money go and sell the things less than they cost and all they can do they can put me in the County Court—I said "Then they will come on my goods and take my goods"—I told him I had no money I could not do it, and he said "You don't want money, you only want references; I will give you references"—I said "No thank you, you are a swindler."
Cross-examined. I took out a summons against the prisoner, and we have not been good friends since—I saw potatoes come an in new sacks—they opened one sack in the shop and I saw they were redskin potatoes—they were sent off the next morning and I can tell you the vam that took them away—I occupied myself in seeing what my neighbours did because I thought they were swindlers—it "was before he came to live next door that he asked me to take letters for him—some goods came after the letters arrived—I did not say anything at the Police. Court, about the prisoner having said "If you run short you can sell them at less than they cost"—he has repaired the house, but he has never paid for that.
Re-examined. A cross summons was taken out—I stood outside his house one day when he came out and gave me a blow in the face and struck me against the gutter—he said I fetched. a gentleman out of his shop—I told a gentleman not to send his goods, he would be swindled, that was the reason he tried to knock me. about.
JAMES PAY (Police Inspector). I had a warrant for the prisoner's apprehension, I had known him before—his right name is George Bristowe—I have also known him at a shop where the name "W. Grant" was over the door—the trade pretended to be carried on there was that of a dairy—I have known him twelve or fourteen years at a great many places, continually shifting from house to house—for the last two or three years he has gone by the name of George Foreman—I apprehended him on the 1st April—I read the warrant to him which described him as George Foreman alias Bristowe and mentioned hay—he said his name was not Bristowe, and. it was not hay, it was clover—it also mentioned the name of Edward Jabez Greenfield—on the way to the station he said I have made no false pretence in this matter—I said "You described yourself as refreshment contractor to the Zoological and Botanical Gardens"—he said "So I would contract
for visitors going to the Zoological Gardens or anything else that I could get anything out of"—I knew of, the charge of the potatoes at that time, but I had no conversation with him about that—Morgan was with me, and he took possession of the papers—I found a great number of forms in blank and some written upon, like those which have been produced—the prisoner lived at 47, Grove Street—the only thing that I could see there that would be eatable was about two 2 lbs. of butter and nineteen eggs—the things in the shop consisted of dummies; pretended casks of butter, empty casks and things of that sort.
Cross-examined. Morgan, was present at the conversation that I have described, but we were riding, along in a cab, and I doubt very much whether he could hear it—when, the charge was read over to the. Prisoner at the station, he said "I know nothing about it"—I can't say clearly that I have only known him as Foreman for the last two or three years; there was another place where he opened a shop, in the name of Grant & Co., and I saw him there, but generally his son—n-law whose name was Day, was the pretended Grant—the business that the prisoner carried on in the name of Grant, was. a dairy at 55, Upper Gloucester Place, but there was really nothing earned on, the shop was filled with dummies, nor was there at 47, Grove Street—there, were only nineteen eggs there, I counted them.
DANIEL MORGAN (Detective). I assisted; in apprehending the prisoner, and searched the house—I found thousands of form likes those which have been produced, some written on and some blank—I also found some agreements relating to small shops in various parts of London, and one for 47, Grove Street—some of them were. in, the name of Foreman, some in other names—there. was one in the; name of Richards—I found bill heads in the name of Richards and Day, at various places—here, is one. "Leicester Dairy, Berwick Street, Oxford. Street," and some "Peter Street, Soho"—I found several directed envelopes, some to. George Foreman, Grove Street, some to Leicester Dairy and 180, Gray's Inn Road, in the name of Watson, and a number of other addresses—I also found, a notice of a dishonored bill in. the name of Foreman and a County Court writ—I, examined the premises thoroughly, and all the stock in the place was 1 1/2 lbs., of butter, which had been a 2lb. roll with the end cut off, and 19 eggs—I found a number of papers in the name of Bristowe.
Cross-examined. I went with the prisoner and Inspector Pay to the station, and I heard some conversation between them—I did not give evidence at the Police Court, I simply said "I found a bundle of papers"—I found them all over the house; some of them are old; they trace his history back for years, where he has been to and what he has done—the greater number are in the name of Foreman, 47, Grove Street, but they are all new ones.
He further PLEADED GUILTY to having been before convicted at this Court on 19th December, 1867, in the name of George Gould alias Bristowe .— Five Years' Penal Servitude in Greenfield's case , andFive Year's Penal Servitude in Grimshaw's Case. (See next case).
336. GEORGE WHITE (18), WALTER CARRUTHERS (21), ALFRED CARRUTHERS (28), FLORENCE NORTH (18), GEORGE FOREMAN alias BRISTOWE (67), RICHARD BROWNING (65), CHARLES HARRISON BARKER (61) and SAMUEL JACOBS alias REYNOLDS (66). were indicted (with John Baxter, Charles Nuth, John Pearce, and " William Humphries, not in custody), for unlawfully conspiring to obtain goods from various persons, with intent to defraud (See page 33).
MR. BULWER, Q.C. MR. BEASLEY and MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution; MR. STRAIGHT defended White, Walter and Alfred Carruthers, and NORTH; MR. PEILE defended Foreman.
JAMES WILCOCKS . In January last I was living near Bristol with a tutor, my father being in India—I advertised a bicycle for sale in the "Exchange and Mart" for 10., on 9th January—I received this post card the next day headed "Bicycle," from Chelsea Market, London, signed J. Baxter, and asking for full particulars—I replied to that, and afterwards received this memorandum. (This was headed "From J. Baxter, Poultry, Babbitt, Butter and Pork Dealer, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market," stating that he would give the price named, and on receipt of the bicycle and invoice-would remit cheque for the amount.) I sent the bicycle by Great Western Railway to Paddington Station to be called for, addressed to J. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market—I have not received the 10l., or seen the bicycle again.
HENRY HILLS . I am clerk at the Paddington Station—I received a bicycle from Bristol addressed to J. Baiter in January last—there was another bicycle at the station at the same time, and that was delivered by mistake to somebody who came for it—it was afterwards sent back, and I delivered the right one to the prisoner White—I did not speak to him—I was merely called out to see the bicycle—he signed the book "T. White," and took the bicycle away.
Cross-examined. The first bicycle was taken away on 27th January, and the second on 4th February—I believe White to be the person—I saw him at the Police Court in the dock, and said he was the same person who had been at the station.
CHARLES WILLIAM HORATIO POLE . I am a clerk in the Great' Western Railway Office, Paddington—I remember a bicycle being delivered by mistake—I wrote to J. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, about it and it was brought back by the prisoner White, who signed the book in the name of T. White, and took the other away—I asked him why he had not come before as I had written two letters—he said that Mr. Baxter had been in the country—the first bicycle was taken away by a person who signed "J. Baxter;" not either of these prisoners.
HON. WALTER JOHN BETHELL . I live at Shutter oaks, Hinton St. George, Somersetshire—I am a member of the Bar—in January last I advertised a mare which I had for sale in "Pullman's Weekly News"—I afterwards received a letter which I have destroyed—it was on a printed memorandum from Baxter, George Street, Chelsea Market—I replied, giving full particulars, and I afterwards received a letter, dated 26, January, 1875—the answer did not follow for a long time after I had given the particulars, and in the meantime I had destroyed his letter, then came the answer saying that he was in the country and could not answer before—that was headed in the same way as the first memorandum I had—some subsequent documents passed and then I received this one on 3rd February, with a different heading "J. Baxter, potatoes, corn, and coal merchant"—I was not altogether satisfied and came up to town on Saturday, 6th February, and made inquiries, and on the Sunday I went to 27, George Street—I found there was no name over the door and I made inquiries from the people opposite—I then wrote to Baxter to meet the mare on the Monday, and arranged that a telegram should be sent—on Monday morning after
obtaining a warrant, I went to Scotland Yard, and then to Waterloo Station' with, two officers, Pay and Gibbs—I looked out to see who was waiting for the horse, and the second person I inquired of was the prisoner White—I said "Are you come to meet Mr. Bethell's horse from Shutteroaks"—he said "Yes"—I said. "Are you Baxter"—he said "No, I work for Mr. Baxter"—I said that I expected to meet Mr. Baiter, with a cheque for the horse—he said "Mr. Baxter told me to say he was in the country and could not come, and he would send a draft or a cheque"—I said that I could hardly part with the horse in that way—he; offered to take, the horse to a livery stable if I would wait while he went to see if he could get the draft—I would not consent to that—I endeavoured: to ascertain something about him—I said that he was very young and I did not like trusting a horse with him, I did not think he was accustomed:; to take horses from railway, stations, and it was rather risky—he said that he was accustomed to fetch horses from railway stations—I said "Who for?"—he said that on two or three occasions he had fetched them for Mr. Baxter—after that I said "Very well, I will take the chance of it, and you shall have the horse"—the train was due in about two minutes—he said I will go out and be back when the train comes in"—he told me he was going to take the horse to George Street, Chelsea Market—he was then taken in custody.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRIGHT. He said he worked for Mr. Baxter and was. sent by him—I asked him if he had got a cheque for the mare, and said I" had come to receive it from Mr. Baxter—he said "I have no cheque"—I said "I can't leave the horse without the cheque"—I did not. hear all the conversation between White and the constables—the horse was not in the train, it had never left at all—I had determined not to part with it to Baxter—I countermanded the horse being sent up, on the Saturday, from London—I did not expect anything by the. train—White said "I will come back when the train comes in," but I did not see that, I thought he suspected that he was going to be caught.
SAMUEL GIBBS (Detective Sergeant). About 1 o'clock on 8th February, I went with. Mr. Bethell. and Inspector Pay to Waterloo Station—shortly after we got there Mr. Bethell entered into conversation with the prisoner White—Le afterwards beckoned to us and said "I wish you would speak to this man and, see what you can make of him"—I asked him if he was come for the horse that had been forwarded by Mr. Bethell for Mr. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea—he said "Yes"—he had this telegram in his hand from Mr. Bethell to J. Baxter "All right, the mare will arrive at Waterloo on Monday, 1.30 p.m., send or bring cheque for the price"—I asked him who sent him for the horse, he said young Mr. Baxter had sent him from 27, George Street, he said "He gave me two sovereigns to pay for the carriage"—I found 2l. 1s. 6d. on him—I asked him if he had been in the habit of working for Mr. Baxter, and he said he had done two or three jobs for him—he said he had fetched a horse from the station before—on 18th March I went to 20, Quadrant Grove, Kentish Town—I saw Barker leave that house and I ultimately took him in custody for conspiring with one J. Baxter and obtaining goods from various people—he said he did not know Baxter, he never knew such a person—we met Morgan and Pay, and Morgan took him to the station—I went back with Pay to 25, Quadrant Grove, and found Browning there and took him into custody—we searched
and found some documents—Browning said no doubt he had been put away as he had been put away once before for five years by Bristowe; that is Foreman—I apprehended Jacobs on 2nd April—I asked him if his name was Reynolds—he said it was not—I asked him if he lived at 31, Victoria Road, Peckham, and he said he never lived there—I took him to Bow Street station.
JACOBS . Gibbs apprehended me on the charge connected with Browning and Barker, for which I was tried yesterday and sentenced to two years'.
Browning. The same applies to me.
JAMES PAY (Detective Inspector). I went with Mr. Bethell and Gibbs to Waterloo Railway Station—I saw White there—I had known him. before—he was in conversation with Gibbs, and Gibbs said "This is the man who has come for Mr. Bethell's horse, he has got the money to pay for the carriage, but has no cheque to pay for the horse"—I said "What is your name?"—he said "My name is George White"—I said-"The same name as your father, I am rather surprised at your being mixed up in. these swindling transactions after the good advice I gave you when I apprehended your father"—he made no answer—when I knew him before, he was in charge of his father's shop where I apprehended the father for similar transactions—I asked him where he came from and he said he had been sent by Baxter from 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, that he knew nothing about the horse only that he was sent as a messenger, but he had done two or three jobs for Baxter—I asked him his address—he said he had been sleeping at coffee-houses in different parts of London and he could not tell me the address of any particular one—I took him to Scotland Yard—the next day I went to 27, St. George Street, Chelsea Market, and found Florence North there—her name is Nuth—the shop was pretended to be fitted up as a corndealer's—there were three trusses of hay, a few packets of egg producing powder, a pair of scales, some empty tubs, some packets of Yeatman's yeast powder, and some empty sacks—there was not the slightest sign of any business being carried on—I told North the place seemed fitted up with dummies and was a regular swindle—she said "I got this situation by an advertisement, I am paid wages"—I said "Who pays you, I am informed Baxter is never to be seen here"—she said "That is my business, I shan't tell you"—I asked her where she lived before she came there—she said she should not Bay—I then left, leaving her there—she was taken in custody nearly a: week afterwards by Morgan—on 9th February, the same evening that I saw North, I saw Walter Carruthers at the police-station—I asked him his name and address and he said "Walter Carruthers, 27, Adair Road, Upper Westbourne Park"—he was not detained that night—I arrested him on the 16th and told him it was for being concerned with a man named J. Baxter and others in carrying cut swindling transactions at 27, George Street, Chelsea, attempting to defraud Mr. Bethell and others—I said I had learnt something further about the "matter and that was the reason I arrested him—he said "Oh, very well"—Alfred Carruthers was in the police-station at the same time, only in an adjoining room—I told him the particulars of the warrant—he said "The constable who brought me here has made a mistake, I am not the person who went to Chelsea Market, I have never been there in my life and don't know where the shop is"—I said "I shall have to take you to Cottage Road police-station, where you will be put amongst a number of others to see whether you are identified
further than then policeman's) evidence"—I heard of the case of obtaining the hay from Mrs. Greenfield and in consequence of that I took Barker on 18th March at 25, Quadrant Grove—Browning-was in bed there and he was also taken—I found a letter to Mr. Tebbs on his" bed—I apprehended Foreman on 1st April in Hampstead Road—I found an acceptance from Foreman on Barker—some documents were handed to me purporting to be written by "Byrne & Son—they were sent to me in different ways, some of them were handed to me by a witness named Lloyd—I have not known any of the prisoners by the name of Byrne—the documents purport to be from Byrne & Son", 6, Oxford-Market—I have compared them with the documents from Baxter applying to Mrs. Greenfield for goods, and I am sure they are in the same handwriting.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I think it was after the first remand that a solicitor was instructed in this case—until them I was calling the witnesses, that is always the custom—when I had the conversation with North I did not contemplate taking her into custody, and the same observation applies to Walter Carruthers; in fact, I let him go after hearing his explanation—Ford afterwards took him into custody and I saw him at the station—White told me he had been in Vienna, employed in the service of a gentleman there—he did not say in whose service or that he was a groom in "the stables—he did not say he was there until the end of 1873, and had been in the employ of the English ambassador.
Cross-examined by Mr. PEILE. I think the Charge of conspiracy came out in the proceedings at the Mansion House—we had eight remanbfore man was not charged with the other prisoner the Mansion House—the accptance purports to be signed by Foreman, but I don't know his writing.
Cross-examined by Browning I took you into custody for conspiring with Barker and another person and obtaining iron from Mr. Graham, which you were tried for yesterday.
DAVID MORGAN (Detective Officer). On 9th February I was watching the house 27, George Street—I saw Walter Carruthers several times during the day, standing at the shop door with North—she took the shutters down about 9 o'clock in the morning—I saw a box delivered by a van about 10 o'clock in the morning—directly the driver of the van came out I went to the door and looked through the glass panels—I saw Walter Carruthers on his knees opening the box, and North stood by looking on—I tried to open the door, but could not for a moment—I then went in and Walter walked into the back parlour—he was opening the box in the front parlour—the box was test box containing rubbish which had been sent by Inspector Pay from Scotland Yard—I said to Walter "Are you Mr. Baxter?—he said "No"—Is aid "Why did you open that box then?—he said "I did not do so"—I said; he did, and he would. have to go with me to see Mr. Pay at Cottage Road police station—I took him there and he was liberated that night—he was afterwards, brought to me by police constable Ford, of the B Division, to Westbourne Park on 16th February—I told him he would be charged: with conspiring to defraud Mr. Bethell and others at Chelsea Market—he said, amongst, other things, "Why did not you keep me when you had me before?"—I told him he had given an account then which I bad since found to be false—I took him to Mr. Pay, who charged him on the same afternoon—Alfred: Carruthers was brought to me by Ford and another constable; I told him the same charge, and he said he had never
been to Chelsea Market—on the morning of 17th February I went, to 27, I George Street, and saw North there—I told her I was a police officer, and should take her in custody for conspiring with Walter Carruthers, Alfred Carruthers, George White, a person named Baxter, and others to defraud the Hon. W. J. Bethell and other persons, mentioning several names—she said "Very well"—I asked her what her name was; she said "Florence North"—I asked her what address; she said "Here"—I asked her if she would like me to communicate with her friends as to the position she was in—she said "No; I will stand to it myself"—I then pointed to a number of bags round the shop—I opened one, but she said "Don't pull them about; they only contain sawdust"—I found a large number of books and other-things and a handkerchief marked "F. Nuth" and a stamp for marking linen in the name of Nuth—the name in some of the books was altered from Nuth to North—I have heard the name of Nuth several times—I said, "Your things appear to be marked in the name of Nuth; I know that name"—she said "North my name is"—I found a photograph on the mantelshelf, of three men; two are the two Carruthers—I found a great number of papers addressed Mr. J. Baxter, George Street, Chelsea—Barker was handed over to me by Sergeant Gibbs—I found a; bill of exchange on him in the name of George Foreman—I asked him if he knew Mr. Foreman he said "Yes"—I said "So do I; do you think it will ever be paid to you?"—he said "No, I am afraid not; he is a bad lot"—I saw him tearing some papers' in his pocket—I said I should take possession of all the. Papers he had—some of the letters were addressed Charles Harrison, 25, Quadrant Grove, and. others to Charles Barker, 24, Chalcott Crescent—I asked him what his name was—he said. "Charles Harrison"—I said "Then those letters don't belong to you"—he said his correct name was Charles Harrison Barker, that he had lodged a few nights at 24, Chalcott Crescent, and had his letters addressed there—he asked me what the charge was against him:—I said I. could not tell him—he said "If it is anything to do with Baxter, I know nothing of him, I never gave him a reference, and never saw him in my life."
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I saw Pay go to 27, George Street, when I was watching the place on Friday—the next time I saw North after the 9th was on the 17th—she was present on the 9th when the package was opened—the box was marked "J. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea; perishable goods"—but when I spoke to Carruthers he denied having opened the box at all—the box was open but he had gone into the back parlour—I said at the Police Court that he said he did not open it.
Cross-examined by Barker. I don't remember that you said you had lent 20l. to, a Mr. King on the bill that was found upon you—I found a duplicate on you and you said you had lent King a pot of porter on it.
SARAH FRENCH Greenfield. I advertised for the sale of some hay in. the "West Sussex Gazette" in the name of Delta—I received a letter from: Foreman, and also one from J. Baxter on 6th November from 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, stating that he was open to purchase the whole for cash at the price quoted, which was 6l. 3s. per ton—I replied to that and received another memorandum from the same quarter, stating that he would; take the whole of the hay at the price named, and asking for a sample truck of 1 1/2 tons—I wrote for a reference before parting with the bay, and I received another letter containing an envelope addressed to Charles Barker, 24, Chalcott Crescent—I wrote there asking if Baxter was a good substantial
man and in. a position to buy hay—I received a reply stating that Mr. Barker was not in the habit of giving references, but in this instance he had much pleasure in answering in the affirmative—I then ordered the man to send up the hay to Willow Walk Station addressed-to J. Baxter, 27 George Street, Chelsea Market—the value of the hay was nine guineas—I have not seen the hay since or the money—on 16th November I received a letter enclosing a draft for 21l. payable in seven days at the Clarendon Bank, and asking for the difference in value to be sent in hay at our earliest convenience—the cheque was not paid—I afterwards went up to 27, George Street, and saw the girl Florence. North there—I told her who I was and that I had sent up some hay and asked if Mr. Baxter was in she said that he was not—I was convinced directly I saw the place that it was a swindle, and I asked her if she knew where he was, she said she Could not tell me—I asked her where Mr. Baxter lived—she said he did not live there, but that he called or sent for his letters every day—I asked where he lived; she said she did not know, she believed at Croydon, but she had only been in his employ since the previous Monday; this was the Monday or Tuesday before Christmas Day—I said I knew Croydon intimately, and there was no corn merchant of that name there—I asked her about the goods and she said they were fetched from there directly they were brought in, the same as the letters—she did not seem to know anything about the hay—I left then—I saw Walter Carruthers". near the shop—I went and made a complaint to the police—I also sent some hay-under similar circumstances to Foreman—I did not get paid for either.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I saw Walter Carruthers again at the Police Court, and recognised him immediately—I saw him in the dock—North led me to infer that she was in Baxter's employ.
JOHN DREW . I live at George Street, Sloane Square, Chelsea, and collect the rent for No. 27, George Street, Chelsea Market—I let that shop sometime' ago to a man who. gave the name of J. Baxter; he came in a pony cart with Walter Carruthers—they came several times—the place-was ultimately taken, and the girl North had charge of it all through—I had opportunties of seeing who was there day by day—the girl was always there except on Sunday—a few days after the place was taken' I saw Baxter and-Walter Carruthers cutting a hole in the shutter for a letter box—I have seen Walter Carruthers there frequently, and I have seen Alfred come there several times too; he used to come and take letters away—I have seen goods delivered there by railway vans, sheep, and pigs, and; as soon as the railway vans had gone away: they, used to bring a cart and take the stuff away mess than a quarter of an hour after it was brought there—I have seen boxes which looked like butter and four or five tons of potatoes-; they sold some of the potatoes in the shop, 41bs. for 2d.—the young woman used to receive the goods and, I believe, used to sign for them—I asked her name once and she said Nobbs or Nortn—she used to call Carruthers Wal—I think the place was taken about six months ago; my wife has the date—it was taken at a weekly rent, to be paid every four weeks.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I saw some fowls come there as well as sheep and pigs—they were alive in a large upright hamper—they were cock birds, dark Bramah's.
MARY ANN DREW . I am the wife of the last witness—I let this shop to Baxter in August at 11s. a week—the rent was paid regularly up till just before Christmas—they had the shop, parlour and kitchen—I saw the girl
there, and knew her by the name of Florence Nobbs—she lived there—I have seen dead pigs and dead sheep delivered at the premises—I know both the Carruthers by sight, and have seen them there very frequently, perhaps once a week—I have seen a cart come there, but none of the men here came with it.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I have seen Alfred there, but he had no whiskers or moustache then—I saw him afterwards at the police-station with four or five other men, and picked him out.
SAMUEL WYKES . I am in the Coldstream Guards—I live at 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, with my wife and occupy the first floor—I pay my rent to Mrs. Drew—I know the female prisoner as Florence North—I don't know her by any other name—there were two letters came addressed to Miss White, care of J. Baxter, which I received from the postman, and my wife took them down to her—she occupied the parlour—they kept some things in the shop for sale, and she was supposed to be: the sales woman—potatoes and flour and different things were in the shop—I have seen things come by vans of the different railway companies; and people came with a trap and took them away soon after—Alfred Carruthers 'has come with a cart and has taken things' away—I can't say that I have seen any of the others there—there were no stables there.
SARAH SCUDDER . I am the wife of William Scudder, and used to live in the kitchen of this house at the time North was there—I knew her as Florence North, and the two Carruthers I knew as Alfred and Walter—I have Seen coals, charcoal, carcasses of meat, mutton and-pork, honey, butter, and live poultry, and potatoes, come there—the poultry came in; December—I had them downstairs in the area, and they were taken away; one by one in the morning—they were fancy fowls—she "said the name of the man who took them away was Ted, and Alfred used to be called Ted as well—the goods were generally taken away directly in a cart—I have seen a man named Baxter there.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. North told me that Walter was her young man.
ALFRED FORD (Policeman B 146). In November last I' was on duty in; the neighbourhood of George Street, Chelsea, and watched No. 27—I saw railway vans deliver carcasses of pigs and sheep; and butter casks, and various other things—I. saw them removed afterwards-; by Alfred Carruthers in a cart—I have seen North at the shop constantly—I have seen her pay. the carriage for the goods brought by the vans, and at other times she has told them to take the things back to the station, and they would be sent for—Walter Carruthers used to go there—he generally went through into the parlour, and I could not see what he did there—I saw Alfred there with a cart on the 14th November—I asked him who was the owner of the cart he said he was, and his name was Henry Smith, and he lived at 15, Ossuls ton Street, Euston 'Road—on Tuesday, 16th February, I-saw Walter Carruthers in Edward Street, Westbourne Park—I asked him to go towards the market with me, and I afterwards handed him over to Sergeant Morgan—I saw Alfred the same day at 2.30 in Sutton Street, and watched him to. 27, Adair Road, Where he stopped about half an hour—he then went towards Edwards Street, and I spoke to him—I said "I did not" expect to meet you here, Mr. Smith"—he said his name was not Smith—I asked him.
what it was, and he refused to tell me—I took him in custody—he said he had never been to 27, George Street, Chelsea, in his life, and did not know where the place was.
JOHN ROSLING (Policeman B 360). In November last I was on duty in George Street, Chelsea Market—on the 10th I saw a horse and cart go to No. 27 with Alfred Carruthers and another man in it—the name on the. cart was "Smith, Ossulston Street, Euston Road"—I was taking the name and he asked me if I wanted a piece, of pencil—I saw the same two men come round several times—they took away some carcasses of sheep which had been delivered by the Great Western Railway van—the crates, were broken open to get the sheep into the shop—they remained there one day and night and the cart-came and took: them away—I saw some hay come by a great? Northern van there were eight or nine different sort littler trusses cut-for samples—North refused to take them in because there was 1s. 11d. to pay—I saw some live fows come there, fancy birds—I think they came by; a Great-Eastern van—North took them in—Walter; Carruthers was at the shop two or three times a week—in December Mr. Frettingham, a gentleman from Derby, made complaint to me and pointed Out a man who had been down to see him at Derby—that man is not here—it was the one that helped Alfred to take the meat. away—I don't know his name, but I saw saw him there nearly every day—I have seen some potatoes for sale in the shop, but I have not seen anything else sold.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT I heard this man who brought the hay say there-was 1s. 11d. to pay and the girl said "I can't take it in"
RICHARD COOPER . I am clerk in the Inquiry Office at the Willow Walk Station—on 12th-December sixty trusses of hay. came there from Mrs. Greenfield, addressed to Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market—it was called for the next day and taken away in a van by a person. who signed Policy"—I had. sent an advice to J. Baxter and then the van Came for it.
WILLIAM FREDERICK ERETTINGHAM . I am a hay and corn merchant at Denby, near Derby—in November last I advertised a Sewing machine for sale and I received a letter in answer to the advertisement from J. Baxter & Co., on a similar form to this produced—I had some correspondence with J. Baxter & Co. and sent the sewing machine—I received an answer on the 18th, announcing its arrival, and also a cheque, for 4l. 15s. Which was honored—that letter requested me to send some samples of hay and I wanted to purchase some beans of him—I sent up" 2 tons 19cwt. of hay value 12l. 5s., but before that, a person came down to see me who professed to be manager for J. Baxter—afterwards saw that man in London and pointed him out to a constable—they did, not let me have any beans although the contract had been made—I applied to be paid for the hay, but I did not get the money—I had purchased 500l. worth of stuff to send-off, but I only delivered the 2 tons of hay—I came up. to London and went to the premises—I saw Florence North there—asked. her where Mr. Baxter was—she said that he had just-gone out—I told her I was Mr. Frettingham from Derby, and I came about the hay that I had bought, in order to deliver to Mr. Baxter—she said he had just gone out with a gentleman and had taken his portmanteau with him, but she did not think he would be long—I waited there all day—whilst I was there a gentleman came—he spoke to North and said he had sent some charcoal; up and he could not find it or the bags, and he thought it was a complete swindle—she said
She did not know anything at all about it, she was only—n Mr. Baxter's employ—I asked her what sort of looking person Baxter was—she said the first time that he was an elderly man, and the second time that he was a young man—I called her attention to the contradiction and she said she was Certain she told me he was an old man—I have never had any money, or seen my hay again.
Cross-examined by Mr. STRAIGHT. I won't swear whether it was the first or second time she said he was an old man, I think at first she said he was rather a tall young man, and afterwards she contradicted herself—she said that he had been there for his letters and had gone away again.
BENJAMIN REDFERN ORTOH . I am delivery clerk at the Midland Railway Station—on 23rd November, I delivered some hay which had come from Denny, near Derby, to Walter Carruthers, who came for it with a van—he paid the charges and took it away—lie signed the book "H. Woodcock"—I am under the impression that he has been there a lot of times before for goods.
ALGERNON MORDAUNT CHAPMAN . I live at Cranley, Surrey, with my father who is postmaster there—at the end of. November I advertised a pony for sale in the "Times" newspaper—on 30th of November I received an answer on a printed form—I replied to that to James Baiter, 27, George Street—I received another letter asking me to get a veterinary surgeon's opinion as to the pony's soundness—I did so and sent it up to him and then he wrote to me saying he was satisfied, and asking that the pony should be sent to, London Bridge, and for the invoice, and a cheque would be sent—I wrote if? again stating that I should require the money before the pony was sent—the next morning I had a cheque for 15l. on the Clarendon Bank—I wrote back for the other 15l., I received a telegram in. reply and another cheque the next morning; I then sent the pony up to the Victoria Station. addressed to J. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market—I passed the cheques away and afterwards received them back dishonored—I have not had my pony back—subsequently wrote to Baxter, but received, no reply.
WILLIAM LEE JOHNSON I am window porter at. the Victoria Station on 11th December, a pony came there from Cranley, consigned to Baxter Chelsea Market—it was. delivered to a man signing "George Williams"—I believe Walter Carruthers was the man, but I can't swear if—I have seen him at the office.
GEORGE MANN I LIVE AT MILL ROAD , Cambridge—in November last, I advertised in the "Cambridge Express" some fancy fowls for sale; they were dark Bramah's—I received a post-card from Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market—I replied to that and received another—the price was 2l. ea ch—I agreed to send him one as a sample; I did so and he said he would take all I had at the price—I sent five altogether—I got a draft for 10l. payable at 27, George Street—I went there to present it—I saw North there—I asked her if Mr. Baxter lived there—she said that he did not, and she did not know where he lived—I said "There are some hampers of mine." on the counter"—she said "You can take the hampers"—I said I believed I had been swindled out of my money and she said "You have, Sir"—I said I should like to find him, and she said "And so would a great many more, Sir"—I went away then—I wrote one or two letters and had several promises, but I never got the money and have not seen the fowls since—I did not see any business carried on in the shop when I went there.
Railway—on 25th November, I delivered at 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, one basket and one fowl in it, and on the 27th one basket and four fowls, to the female prisoner and she signed for them "F. North." JANE LEEWLLYN. I am the wife of William Llewellyn, and live at Aberystwith in Wales—I manage the business-of my father Mr. Jones a butcher—on 15th October I received a letter from J. Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market asking the price at which we would supply. Welsh mutton for the season—I replied to that and had. some other letters that have been lost, in-consequence of-which I sent five carcasses of sheep addressed to J. Baxter—the price was 5l. 0s. 11d—I after received an order for 20 more and a letter containing a cheque at the same time—I sent off fourteen, I could not get twenty ready—the cheque was dishonored—telegraphed to Baxter and received a letter telling me I should have a note from his bankers—I have not had the-money—I sent the sheep by the North Western Railway.
FREDERICK GRENSELL . I am carman to the North Western Railway Company—on 27th October 1 delivered two crates containing Welsh mutton, at 27, George Street, Chelsea—I. saw North there—she said she had no money to pay the carriage—I called again at night for the money and she paid me—the shop was closed at that time.
JAMES PUTTOCK . I live at Marshall Vale, Bramley, Surrey, and am manager to Mr. Fisher's estate—in October last I. had some potatoes, which I advertised for sale—I received one of these, circulars from Baxter, 27 George Street, Chelsea Market—I replied to it and received an answer, and I sent up a quarter of a ton of potatoes as a. sample to that address—the price was 1l. he sent a cheque for that, which was paid—I afterwards sent four tons more at 4l. 5s. a ton and received-a draft by return, which was afterwards dishonored.
WILLIAM SMALLEY . I am a carman in the London and Brighton Rail way Company's service—on 30th November I delivered five bags of potatoes consigned from Bramley, at 27, George Street, Chelsea—the female prisoner received them and signed for them "F. North." Richard Cooper. I am clerk at Willow Walk Station—a delivery order was brought to me for some' potatoes consigned from Bramley to J. Baxter, Chelsea Market, and they were delivered according to that order.
MATCHEW VAUSHAN . I am a butcher and cattle dealer at Glyn, Neath, Glamorganshire—at the end of October I received a letter from J. Baxter, Chelsea market, asking the price I would sell mutton at—sent back that I would sell at 7d., a pound, and I afterwards sent five carcasses by Great Western Railway—I had some further letters, and sent off altogether eighty-one carcasses which came to 69l. 18s. 3d.—I received a cheque for 5l.4s. 5d. for the first lot, which was paid—did not get any money for the rest, I had a draft sent on the. Clarendon Bank in. the Strand, and that was. dishonoured.
GEORGE BEECHY . I am a checker at the Great Western Station at Paddington—I produce my book showing the arrival of two hampers of meat on November 3rd, from Glyn, Neath—they were taken away on the 4th by a man named Henry Smith—I don't see him here—the same man also culled for some more, which came from the same place.
JOHN THOMAS ASHBY . I am a grocer, and lire at Walton, Street, Ayles bury—in December last I advertised a quantity of sausages for sale, and I received applications from Baxter, 27, George Street, Chelsea Market, from George Foreman, 47, Grove Street, Regent's Park, and Byrne & Sons, Oxford Market—I did not let, any of them have the sausages.
Cross-examined by Mr. PEILE. The application from Foreman was on 23rd January and Barter's was on 30th January.
CECIL HUGH PRICE LLOYD . My, father lives in Carmarthenshire—in December last he had a quantity of turkeys for sale, and he received! some letters by post, signed Byrne & Son, 6, Oxford Market, which he gave to me—the turkeys were sent away to that address—I afterwards received this draft payable fourteen days after date from Byrne and Sonit was not paid—I went to 6, Oxford Market afterwards—I did not see the turkeys, but I saw two baskets, which I recognised as the ones we had sent the turkeys in.
ST. JOHN WONTNEB . I am the solicitor conducting this prosecution on behalf of the Treasury—I have had all the documents in my possession, and have examined them-from the comparison of the documents I should Bay, that those signed Baxter and those signed Byrne are in the same writing; and further that the signature to the various letters and bills, signed Charles Barker and C. Barker are the same signature as the signature Charles Barker, 24, Chalcott Crescent, Regent's Park the endorsements upon the bills produced by Mr. Nokes are the same as the signature to the references given to Mrs. Greenfield and the various references which have been given in evidence, both in the name of Harrison, and Barker.
Cross-examined by the prisoner Jacobs. I have compared the letters signed Collier and Reynolds, and they are certainly not in the same writing as those signed Byrne & Baxter, but the letter answering the. reference given to Samuel Reynolds by Byrne & Son is the same as all the other letters signed by Collier & Reynolds from different addresses.
LEONARD MOUNT . I am the landlord of 27, Adair Road—I let that, house last-December to a person calling himself Webster, who referred me to Mr. Baker, 24, Chalcott Terrace, Regent's Park—went there and saw some one who said she was Mrs. Barker—the reference was satisfactory and I let the house. White and Alfred Carruthers received good characters. The Court considered that the evidence against Foreman was not sufficient—
NOT GUITY .
Browning, Barker, and Jacobs in their defence stated that they had already been tried for the same offence for which they were then suffering.
WHITE— NOT GUILTY .
WALTER and ALFRED CARRUTHERS— GUILTY Two Years' Imprisonment each.
NORTH— GUILTY — Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.
BROWNING— GUILTY .
He again PLEADED GUILTY to the former conviction
BARKER— GUILTY .
He also again PLEADED GUILTY to the former conviction— Two Years' Imprisonment each on this indictment , and Five Years' Penal Servitude on the indictment tried on Tuesday.
JACOBS— GUILTY *.
He also PLEADED GUILTY to the former conviction— One Year's Imprisonment on this indictment and Two Years' Imprisonment on the indictment tried on Tuesday .
MR. LYON conducted, the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH-POWELL I live at 3, John's Place, Stepney—I met the prisoner on 16th April about 11 o'clock at night in the Mile End Road—I had something; to drink with him—he asked me" if I had a place of my own I could take him home to—I said "Yes"—he promised me 5s.—we went home—my room is the first floor front—I asked him for the money—he said he should not give it me until the morning—I said "Then you can't stay here; you had-better go; you have no. business coming home with me '. to make me a fool"—he said he should not go—I said "Then I shall call a policeman to make you go"—I opened the window to call policeman and he threw me out—I fell on the pavement—my head was out cut, and my spine and right leg were hurt—I became Insensible, and the next I remember was the policeman bringing the prisoner back—I gave him in cur.
By THE COURT. He had had some drink, but he was not so drunk as not to know what he was about—he said, If I called a policemen to him he would put me put of the window, and he did so, and he said he would put any other b----out that came up—I have told you all that passed between us after I charged him with throwing me out of the window he said "You have stolen my coat."—said "I have not seen your coat; I am quite willing to go to the station" the policemen then charge me with steeling his coat-his coat was lying on the table before he threw me out—he did not give me 5s—it is not I I went out and then be missed his coat—I never went-out at all—he asked me where his coat was when I was brought into the room—I said "I don't know; some of the mob that rushed-up must have taken it—I committed upon that charges-tie Grand Jury threw out the bill, and I was discharged yesterday morning—I did not take his-coat away from him at all—broke three panes of glass, and the mob rushed up.
THOMAS SMITH I live at 3, John's Place Stepney—on the night of 16th April I saw Powell lying on the pavement and I picked her her up—insensible and bleeding from the head policemen came up and I went away.
FREDERICK KING (policeman K 207) About 12.45 a. m. on 17th April I was called to 3, John's Place, and the prosecutrix sitting on the chair in, her room—her head was covered with blood—the prisoner was in the room, and I took him in custody—I asked him if he threw her out of the window—he said "Yes and I will throw the first b----out that comes near me" the height from the window to the pavement is between 12 and 14 feet.
By THE COURT. The prisoner had been drinking—he said he wanted to charge her with stealing his "coat and gave her in custody—he had no coat then; it was found downstairs about an hour afterwards—three panes of glass were broken—the people who liked in the court were all about there.
JAMES, HORTON , M.R.C.S. I live at High Street, Stepney—I saw the prosecutrix at the station on the morning of, 17th, April, about 3o'clock she was faint from loss of blood, and suffering from a Contused and lacerated wound on the right Side of the head—she had a large bruise on her leg, and was suffering from contusion of the spine—they were injuries which would be produced by a fall from a window.
Prisoner's Defence. I met this woman in the Whitechapel Road, and spoke to her—we had something to drink and I bargained with her for 5s. I went to her place and gave her the 5s. I took my coat off and laid it on the chair and gave her 1s. to get some beer. When I turned round, my coat was gone. When she came in I asked her where it was; she said she did not know, and if I did not go she would call the police. She lifted the window, looked out and called "Police," and I shoved her and out she went.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding — Six Months' Imprisonment.
JOHN BAMFORD . I live at 67, Roscoe Street, Plaistow—on 17th. April, about 12 o'clock I was in Great Prescott Street, Whitechapel—I had had too much to drink—I noticed two men coming-across the road towards me—when they got up to me they tripped me up:—as far as I can remember one hit me on the foot with his foot—I fell, received a kick, and remember no more till I found myself in the police-station—T found I had lost my hat and handkerchief—the policeman afterwards gave them to me.
GEORGE KERRODGE (Policeman H 156.) About 12.30 a. m. on 18th April. I was on duty in Great Preseott Street, Whitechapel—I saw the prisoner And a man not in custody, loitering at the corner of Magnum Passage—I concealed myself in a dark place and watched them—I saw Bamford come out of St. Mark's street very drunk—the prisoner and the other man crossed the street and stopped him—I saw him fall. And they fell on the top of him in a kneeling position—a soon as they saw me they got up and crossed the street to where I had previously seen them standing—the prisoner spoke to the other man and they walked up a passage—I followed them—the other man was carrying this hat—the prisoner looked back and saw I was following them and the other man threw the hat down and ran away, at the same time the prisoner threw this handkerchief down in a doorway—I ran and caught hold of him—I told him I wanted him—he said "What for?"—I said "You have just robbed a man in Great Prescott Street"—he said "Not me; I have been to see my cousin"—I picked the handkerchief up and said "You shrew this down"—he made no answer—I took him back into Great Prescott Street where I found Bamford close to where I saw him fall—had no had—he said—"That's the man that knocked me down"—I asked him where his hat-was—he pointed to the prisoner and said "That man stole it"—I asked him if he had lost his handkerchief and he said "Yes"—I produced the hat and handkerchief, and he said they-were his property.
The prisoner in his defence stated that he was going to his cousin's, house when the policeman stopped him, and that he knew nothing of the robbery.
GUILTY — Nine Months' Imprisonment.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, May 6th, 1875.
Before Mr. Justice Archibald.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution; and MR. CHARLES MATTHEWS the Defence.
—on 19th April, about 1.30, I was on the bank of the Regent's Canal. near Cat and Mutton Bridge—there was-a black and white dog on the bank and I threw a piece of stick for him to fetch, but instead of bringing the stick he brought what I thought was apiece of rag—I lifted it up and found it was a dead child fully dressed—I pulled it to the land and took it to Dr. Taunton who told me to take it to the Hoxton police-station, which I did, and left it with the Inspector—it had on a little blue frock and a flannel petticoat—that was all I saw.
THOMAS. BRADY (Police Inspector N). On 19th April I was at Hoxton station about 2 o'clock, when Hibberd brought the body; of a female child dressed in workhouse clothes—I sent for Dr. Griffiths who saw it and then I sent it to the dead-house.
ANN THOMPSON . I am the widow of Albert Thompson; and am matron of Clerkenwell Workhouse—I give out clothing to the nurses the only clothing for a female infant which I gave out in. April I gave to Catharine Glaskell, the nurse of the receiving ward;. I know that from our books—did not see the child's dead-body but Richard Massey, the detective, showed me some clothes which I recognised as those which I gave to the nurse in April—I think that was on the same day that they were found, it was on the Monday before I appeared before the Magistrate—the prisoner, was admitted to the lying-ward on 22nd, March and was confined with a female child on the same day, which was registered as Mary beautiful child, fine and healthy—the prisoner left the workhouse on 8th April at her own request—she was discharged at 8.30, but she did not leave till after supper, which took place at 6 o'clock—she took the child with her, it was then quite well.
Cross-examined. This is the child's clothing (Produced), it has on it "Holborn Union, No. 37"—one workhouse is in the Holborn Union.
ELLEN BOLIGO . I am the widow of Louis Boligo an asphalte labourer—am a pauper nurse in the lying—n ward of Clerkenwell workhouse, and have been so six months—I attended the Prisoner in her confinement on 22nd March, when she was delivered of a fine healthy well developed female child, which I have" since seen dead—I believe it was the same child, by the features, but they were so swollen that could not positively say the prisoner left my ward about 6.20, taking the child with her, and she wished me good bye when she went—the child was well then its navel was in a proper-state—the. cord was "perfectly healed some days before she left—recognised the clothes at the Police Court, they were not on the child then.
Cross-examined. The prisoner appeared to me to he rather a, soft witted person, and very easily led—she seemed to be very quiet and reserved and forgetful of everything—three workhouses are attached to the Holborn Union, and I believe St. Luke's is one of them—the Gray's Inn Road workhouse is also attached to the union—I am-not-sure-about the Highgate Workhouse—I saw the child's body at the dead-house on a-Monday evening—I don't know the date.
ELIZABETH CHANTREY . I live at 10, Europa Place, St. Luke's, and am the wife of Henry Chantrey, a glass cutter—I have lived in the prisoner's mother's house, and have known the prisoner for eleven or twelve months she has a father—on 22nd March she knocked me up before 7 o'clock in the morning—I knew her to be heavy with child before that—I went with her to St. Luke's Workhouse and did not see her again till the evening of 8th April, when I met her in Lever Street near 10 o'clock—it was raining, and
she was in the street exposed to it, and was dreadfully wet—I said "What ever do you come out such a dreadful night as this, where is your baby?"—she said "It is dead"—I said "Where did it die?" she said "In the work house this morning"—I said "What did it die with?"—she said "Convulsions"—I said "Was any one with you?"—she said "Yes"—I said "When will it be buried, Polly?"—she said "On Monday"—I said "Are you going to follow it?"—she said "No, they told me there was no occasion, as it would be buried with the others"—I said "Whatever will you do, Polly? I do not think your mother will ever have you back, she is so bitter against you; if you will wait I will go and beg of them to take you home"—I went to her parents and her father said "Tell her to come home and go to bed, we can't see her out such a night as this"—she was in the same street as her home—she-went on living there up to the time of the detective coming to her.
Cross-examined. She told me the name of the father of. her child—I said before the Magistrate that she told me the. baby had died in the workhouse, and was going to be buried there—the word "workhouse" was mentioned, I believe I can speak with certainty as to. my having mentioned the word "workhouse" before the Magistrate, and on both the occasions I have mentioned to-day—not only once, but twice—if it is omitted from my depositions that is a mistake—I believe 1 did tell the Magistrate that she said that the baby died and was buried in the workhouse—I am certain the word "workhouse" was used.
CATHERINE GLASGOW . I am the widow of John Henry Glasgow, a baker—I am now nurse in the receiving ward of Clerkenwell workhouse, and was so in April—I have seen these clothes before, they are what I dressed the prisoner's baby in on the evening she left—I am sure they are the clothes—she left at past 6 o'clock after she had had her tea—I always dress the babies when they come in for their discharge.
Cross-examined. The Holborn Union and St. Luke's Workhouse are attached, but I cannot tell you of any more.
RICHARD NASSEY (Detective Officer). On 23rd. April, about 10.30. p.m., I went to 6, Europa Place, Lever Street, in consequence of information I received—I saw the prisoner there and asked her if her child had been vaccinated, she said that it was dead—I said "Where is it buried?" she said "At Colney Hatch"—I said "Where did it die?" she said "At Clerkenwell workhouse"—I said "I am a police-constable and I am afraid you are not telling me the truth, as I have been informed that you brought the child from there alive and well"—she then sat down and began to cry—I asked her to accompany me to the police-station, which she did; and when there she was asked by the inspector in my presence if she could account for her child—he is not here—he said "Can you account for your child?" nothing more than that—she replied "I drowned my baby" she was then charged on suspicion of having murdered her child; the charge was read over to her and she made no answer.
Cross-examined. I went in plain clothes, and the first question I asked was whether her child had been vaccinated, she said that it was dead, and 1 asked her where it was buried she said "At Colney Hatch"—she did not say "At Clerkenwell"—it was after that that I told her I was a police-officer.
JOHN CLEWER GRIFFITHS , M.R.C.S. I live at 79, New-North Road—on Monday, 19th April, about 2 p.m., I was at Hoxton police station when the body of a female child was brought there—it is impossible to say its age, it was a very fine child, and I 'put it down as under 2 months old—I examined it superficially—there were no marks of violence, but the legs and arms were drawn up, the tongue was protruding, and there was mucous in the mouth; those are signs of suffocation by drowning—it appeared well nourished and fully developed; no decomposition had taken place then—it is impossible to tell how long it had been in the water, it would depend upon temperature; but in consequence of its having blue skin on. different parts of the. body I should say at least forty eight hours the umbilical cord was perfectly healed—by the Coroner's order I made a post-mortem, examination—I first opened the skull, the brain was soft and congested I opened the chest, the lungs were gorged with blood, and both ventricles of the heart were full of fluid blood; the spleen was gorged, and the intestines, stomach and kidneys were all congested; that confirmed my diagnosis that death came by drowning.
By the Court, The organs were perfectly healthy, there were no signs of disease.
Cross-examined. I said that it had been in the water at least forty-eight hours—being in the water retards decomposition—t was under two. months old, but we can only judge by size after the umbilical-cord is healed—did not state before the Coroner that the child was a two months child; the Coroner pointed out to the Jury that I said it was under two months—I did" not state as a portion of the post-mortem examination which was afterwards returned to the Coroner, that in my opinion the Child had lived about two months—if that has been taken down it has been taken incorrectly—I-gave-my evidence before the Coroner orally, but I had got a statement with me—when I make a post-mortem I always note down the particulars at the time, but I was not speaking from that note—I deny that I said that the child had lived two months, I said that it was less than two months; I only judged by the weight it weighed 9 1/2 lbs—I said "The ventricles were charged with fluid blood"—I did not say "The spleen empty and not inflated;" that is a mistake, the spleen could not be empty—said "The intestines, stomach, and kidneys were cangested" the Coroner was not a medical man; this was the Deputy Coroner the post-mortem was made on Thursday the 22nd, that was the day of the inquisition—the case was twice before the Coroner, it was adjourned to the following Tuesday, from the 22nd to the 29th I received the order late on Wednesday night, and I did it the first thing the next morning, Thursday, which was the day of the first examination—was examined on the 22nd, and it was on the morning of the 22nd that the post-mortem was made when I saw it at the station I came to the conclusion that the death arose from drowning—the legs were drawn up, the hands clenched, and there was mucous in the month—in ordinary convulsions the tongue would not be protruded, but the other conditions. I should expect to find in convulsions to a certain extent—the congested state of the brain, the chest, and the. lungs, might be explicable by the fact that the child had died of convulsions—mucous in the mouth which gathered there in. a violent attempt at respiration would not be likely to remain unless the effort to breathe continued for some considerable time—I found nothing at all in the stomach, no water—that is a thing I should expect to find, but not always—it is an indication
of death by suffocation from drowning, but not a leading one; it is very often found, but not always—the stomach was completely empty—the state of the brain and stomach could all be accounted for by the fact that the child died from convulsions—both ventricles of the heart were charged with fluid blood; that would be adverse to convulsions; it would be impossible for the child to die of convulsions and have fluid blood in the ventricles—with that one exception you may take it that the general appearances all indicated that convulsions might be the cause of death—it was only at the post-mortem that I discovered the fluid blood—you would not find the protrusion of the tongue in convulsions; I should say that would be quite incompatible and impossible—the tongue would not hang from the mouth after death if it had not done so before death—the" mouth was shut on the tongue.
GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account, of the strong temptation. DEATH .
340. ANN MARIA WELLS (30) was again indicted (see No. 485, page 349) for the wilful murder of Ada Maud Mary Andrews; she was also charged with JANE REEVES (24), and MARY ANN REEVES (23) , on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.
MESSRS. POLAND and Mead conducted the Prosecution; and MR. SIMS the Defence.
MR. POLAND stated that it was not thought proper after the verdict of the. previous Jury to include Jane and Mary Ann Reeves in the Indictment, and. he should therefore offer no evidence against them on the Coroner's Inquisition.
NOT GUILTY .
MARIA WOOD, JAMES HAZELEY , Alice Welch, Peter Rawlins, Anna. Andrews, Susanna Rebecca Cutler, William Luscomb, James Harris, John Dalton and. Susannah Marshall were examined from the Sessions paper, and repeated their former evidence. (See page 349).
JOSEPH HILL repeated his former evidence (see page 351), and added: The child rallied for a time, and occasionally got better and worse, and ultimately died on 18th March—it had a cough all the time—the bruises on the forehead and the back of the head, would be likely to produce irritation of the brain—it apparently had great pain in the head, and rolled its head about incessantly—the lungs were congested at the time of its admission, and the actual inflammation came on four or five days after its admission, perhaps a few days longer, but it went away again, leaving the lungs in a consolidated state—the acute inflammation lasted ten days or a fortnight—exposure to the cold night air would be very likely to produce congestion—I made a post mortem examination—externally there was a severe bruise on the back of the head, which was the only bruise I remember then—the brain beneath that portion of bruised tissue was inflamed and softened—what I found internally, resulted in my judgment, from what I found externally—the lungs were very considerably congested; instead of being permeable to the air, they were solid—that is one of the latest results of inflammation; it is a thing with which a person may live—the cause of death was inflammation of the brain, together with and following upon inflammation of the lungs.
Cross-examined. The child was under my care from 31st January till 18th
March among the other children in the workhouse—there were about twelve children in that particular ward under a nurse, who was under my superintendence—those were all the sick children under my care—I prescribed for this child poultices on the chest, and a mixture to relieve the cough and difficulty of breathing, and a slight mercurial powder—it got so much better under my care that on 8th February I was able to allow itto go out and go to the Police Court when I was examined—I said that "It was in considerable danger for four or five days, suffering from irritation of the brain"—at that time there was very little to be said about the lungs except that the immediate effect of cold had congested them—inflamation of the lungs had not taken place then—cougestion is what is called in popular language a cold in the chest; it may vary in degree, and in children it is difficult to ascertain the exact condition—I have no recollection of having said anything then about the lungs—the signs of inflammation of the lungs are difficult to perceive, especially by non-medical people, so that a weakly child may have been ill without people discovering it—I was examined here on: 3rd March, and if I said nothing then about any chest disease, the inflammation I have no doubt had at that time passed away, leaving the consolidation of the lungs of which I spoke—I montioned the consolidation of the lungs before the Coroner, and also the softening—I examined the child on 19th March, and found inflammation of the membranes of the brain—the inflammation of the brain would come under the description of inflammation of the arachnoid and pia mater—I know Dr. Tanner's "Index of Diseases," and agree with him that "Inflammation of the arachnoid and pia mater may arise without apparent cause"—an influenza cold might be accompanied by some inflammation both of the head and of the bronchial tubes—we are exposed to influenza colds at any moment—congestion does not follow upon inflammation; it is the other way; inflammation follows upon congestion—where there has been congestion for some time, inflammation is very apt to follow; it is an effort of nature to throw off congestion—inflammation might possibly occur in any person who had been suffering from congestion on being restored to a better state of health—I do not think any medical attendant was with me when I made the post-mortem—I had nothing to do with the charge before the Magistrate, and I was not consulted as to the state of the child.
Re-examined. I am a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons—either the inflammation of the brain alone or the inflammation of the lungs alone, would amply account for death—the inflammation of the lungs had materially weakened the child and rendered its state more serious—the other organs were healthy—I saw the mark round the throat—I do not think a handkerchief tied sufficiently tight to make that mark would affect the inflammation of the brain in any way.
By the Court. It was in considerable danger for two or three days, and after that it rallied occasionally but it never fully recovered, and the bruise on the scalp remained, and after death I found it affecting the soft tissues down to the brain—that was on 13th Jaunary, and it lived till 18th March—it was about nine months old when it was taken to the workhouse; it then appeared to me to be a fine and a strong child—the injuries on the head extended down to. the skull, and the inflammation met it—I am not able to say what might not have been coming on before the bruise, or whether inflammation was actually present before—the softening had been coming
on for some weeks—I cannot say whether there was congestion of the lungs before it was brought to the hospital.
Wells statement before the Magistrate was here put in. (See page 357).
WELLS— NOT GUILTY .
FOURTH COURT—Wednesday, May 5th, 1875.
Before Mr. Recorder.
341. JOSEPH HALLING (29), PLEADED GUILTY to stealing seven pieces of stuff goods and one piece of French merino, the property of Adolphe Sichel and others, also two mares, the property of James Walker **— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. GOODMAN conducted the Prosecution.
HERBERT WALTER NELSON . I am a solicitor carrying on business at 26, Martin's Lane, Cannon Street as "Lowless & Nelson"—on 5th November, 1874, the prisoner called on me and handed me this paper (produced) which I read and identified Mr. A. A. Millar's handwriting—I have been acquainted with Mr. Millar, for many years—I asked him his business, and he said he bad come over from Ireland, on 27th October, in charge of four horses, hunters, which had been sold by his firm in Dublin to a Mr. Alfred Hughes, of High Street, Aldershot, through Hughes' agent, one Michael Hunt, that the price agreed was two at 84l. each; and two at 120l. each, making together 408l., that Michael Hunt had paid his firm ten 10l. notes on account, leaving 308l., that he had come over at his father's request to settle the matter, that he had seen Mr. Hughes on one or two occasions, that Hughes wanted a reduction in the price of the horses; that he had written to his father about it, and his father declined to make any reduction—I think he used the words "To sell the horses over again"—that he wanted proceedings taken against Mr. Hughes to recover the 308l.—then asked him for the Christian and surnames of the partners in his firm—he told me there-were his father, Thomas Haughton, and himself, that his name was James Haughton—I asked their address and he told me "The Q uay, Dublin"—he asked me if there would be any necessity for him to stop in London—I told him "No"—he said'he had placed the horses at Burton's Livery Stables, Marylebone Road, and that he had served Hughe's with notice that the horses were there at his risk and expenses—I told him the matter should be attended to—he then said "I apologise for troubling you, but Mr. Millar was in a great hurry when he wrote the introduction—was just going into Court, and when I came over I had no idea there would be any difficulty with Mr. Hughes—I am stopping at the Euston Hotel, and I am afraid I may run short of money, as you do not want me to stop in London, I shall be glad to get back to-night, could you oblige me by exchanging my firm's cheque; Mr. Millar will be very happy to give you the money for it, or you can pay it into your banker's"—I rang the bell and my cashier came in, and I wrote out my cheque and prisoner wrote
out his—when he had got "my. cheque—he said "I am quite a stranger in London, which is the way to go to the City Bank;" which was the bank on which my cheque was drawn—I said "I will send one of our clerks to show you directly"—I went out with him and directed one of them, Mr. Rook, to show him the way to the City Bank—the cheque given by him to me (produced) is addressed to the manager of the Munster Bank, signed "Haughton & Son," ray cheque (produced) is made payable to "J. Haughton," signed by him J. Haughton—I was present when he was apprehended—in fact I apprehended him myself I believe—I put my hand on his shoulder, and I said. "Mr. Haughton?" and he said "Yes"—Sergeant Bull was across the street and I charged him—I told him I had a warrant for his apprehension, and he was taken prisoner and I did not interfere after that—my cheque was duly paid and debited to our account—the other cheque was returned in the same state, it is now except that it has got the stamp of the Mansion House ' Justice-room upon it—I should not have parted with my cheque unless I had believed that I held valuable security for it.
THOMAS BARRY LILLIS . I am cashier at the Dublin Branch, of the Munster Bank, Dublin—in the year, 1874, we had not at the Dublin, or any other branch, an account, in the name of Haughton & Son, or the the name of Haughton, in any combination—this cheque appears to have been presented to us by the Dublin agents of the City Bank, and returned by us marked "No account."
WILFRID HAUGHTON . I carry on business with my father, Mr. William Haughton, at The Quay, Dublin, as grain, flour, and general merchants, and we trade as "William Haughton & Son"—the cheque produced was not drawn by my firm, or by me or by any one by our authority—I never saw it except at the Mansion House—there is no other firm of Haughton & Son, in Dublin.
GEORGE ROBERT ROOK . I am a clerk in the employ of Messrs. Lawless & Co.—on the 5th November last the prisoner came to the office and gave his name as "James Haughton"—I went with him to the City Bank—I did not see him cash the cheque.
WILLIAM BOND HARRISON . I am paying cashier at the City Bank—on the 5th November last Borne one came to the bank and presented this cheque (produced)—I do not recognise: the prisoner—I paid in exchange for the cheque two 5l. notes and the rest in gold; the numbers of the notes were 15, 079 and 15, 080.
BENJAMIN BARTHIN . I am a licensed victualler, carrying on business in the Liverpool Read, Islington—I have seen the prisoner several times as a customer since, I should think, lost October—I changed a 5l. note for him somewhere in November, I think only one—I paid it into the London and County Bank.
Cross-examined by Prisoner. I only changed one for you; I never changed but one to my knowledge.
Prisoner. I can bring witnesses to prove he changed several, and I always put my name on the back of them, and there is no-name on the back of that note—you would not cash them unless I put my name on the back. Witness. I do not recollect changing any other.
JOHN LEWIS . I am chief clerk at the Islington Branch of the London and County Bank—the last witness is a customer of ours—on the 12th November last he paid into pur bank the note No. 15, 079 and we sent it to the Bank of England.
JOHN MARK BULL (City Detective Serjeant). I apprehended the prisoner under a warrant signed by the Lord Mayor, on the 10th April—he was pointed out to me by Mr. Nelson and another gentleman—I saw the prisoner a week or so before, but I did not apprehend him then for certain reasons—when I apprehended him I told him I held a warrant for his apprehension for obtaining a good cheque for a false cheque on the 5th November—He said "You have made a very great mistake, I have not the pleasure of knowing either of those gentlemen or you"—I said "You will have to accompany me to the station"—he gave the name of John Humphries, and I have since found out his name is John Barrati and where he lives.
Prisoner. He has taken all my private letters and exhibited them in a public-house and I want some of the letters—there are two from noblemen that know me and several Magistrates. Witness. Itistrue—took possession of certain of his papers at his lodgings and several letters, but have not shown them.
It was stated that. Prisoner had lately practised similar frauds on many solicitors— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. J. P. GRAIN the Defence.
HORACE WILKINSON . I reside at Brussels—in March, 1872, I first had some business relations with the prisoner respecting these pictures—I sent him several pictures to London on many occasions to sell and subsequently, not hearing from him I wrote—the letter was returned to me by the postoffice—some time afterwards I saw the prisoner at Brussels, in March, 1873—I saw him through a window and went and asked him for the pictures and he said he had them no longer—I explained the matter to, the Queen's prosecutor and the prisoner was taken into custody—an arrangement was then made, by which the prisoner sold his furniture for my and a Mr. Vanderton's benefit—the arrangement was to pay us for the pictures that he could not account for—the amount, due at that time was 1, 950 francs (78l.)—after the sale about 26l. remained due to me—prisoner. Afterwards came to see me and told me he would make a clean breast of it, that he had disposed of the pictures in different pawn shops and now that he had sold his furniture to pay for them he was a totally broken man, inasmuch as the pictures were all in different pawnbroker's hands in the city of London; but that the tickets were of a certain value and would I buy them of him—to see that he was not playing me false I wrote to the. different pawnbrokers as to the authenticity of these tickets—having done this I agreed to give him 100l. sterling for himself and to take the pictures-out of the pawnbroker's hands at my own expense—this was to settle all his claims on the pictures, and they were to become my individual property—I came to London with the prisoner bringing with me a picture "The Arming of Minerva at Vulcan's Forge"—he had had that picture in his possession for re-varnishing—it was not one of the pictures I had sold to him—the man of whom I bought it gave it to the prisoner to re-varnish—it was deposited at Thomas Newell's in Jermyn Street—I then redeemed the pictures he (prisoner) had sold to me and deposited them also at Mr. Newell's—it was about April 15th, 1873, that I came to London—the prisoner returned
to Brussels to take his trial and I followed—in June or July of that year I heard some report that induced me to come to London—I went to Mr. Newell's office, and finding some pictures had been removed I went to Vine Street to take out a warrant against the prisoner—I saw him once in Richmond Street, West End—I could not say the date—that was on a subsequent visit to London, about August or September the same year—I asked him for my pictures back as I did not want to be bothered in the matter—he then said if he had them The would give them me, he had disposed of: them, and if he had any trouble in the matter he would knife me if he had to go across the water for it—that was said in French—there were thirteen pictures missing—"The Arming at Vulcan's Forge" was amongst those stowed away at Mr. Newell's, and which he told me he had made away with—I went over to Brussels the next morning—this was 8 o'clock at night—some time after, in this year, I received information about one of my pictures, and I went to Richmond Street on the 14th of last month, I believe, and saw it in the window—it is by Teniers—I can identify it—I told the prisoner that it was my picture, and he then said something to me in Flemish which I did not understand, and the detective took him in charge—I have discovered some of the other pictures—two have been produced by Mr. Cox, pawnbroker—five I stopped some fortnight after the robbery, and it has been at Vine, Street ever since—I am in no way indebted to the prisoner—he owes me about 60l.—when I bought the pictures and returned to Brussels there was an arrangement by which, if the prisoner brought a customer to Mr. Newell, he (prisoner) was to be allowed 10 percent.—I made no arrangement giving him authority to remove them from Mr. Newell's—I would not have allowed him to have the pictures outside the door.
Cross-examined. I only knew of a Mr. Rosseau from an anonymous letter—I received a letter from him; that was previous to the charge in Brussels—prisoner was making away with his furniture in order to join his wife here—I do not know Mr. Rosseau at all—it was about October, 1872, I think—the prisoner was going to join his wife in London, who was under six month's bannissement for having young women seduced in her house under age—I had seen the prisoner before—he was called in to estimate a picture by a third party—I knew his family—two of his brothers were personal friends of mine—an offer was made me that a man in London had got a lot of customers and the style of pictures I had would sell well in the British market, and I was iuduced to let him sell-some on corrimission—sent him on some pictures—I could not say what the value of the. pictures was that were in pawn—I gave him 100l. for himself and allowed 50l. extra and put my travelling expenses at 25l.—that would be 175l. and I did not think I should be a loser—I am not a picture dealer—the arrangement for sale of the pictures was simply that should ho by means of his agency introduce a customer to Mr. Newell he was to receive 10 percent.—he might have done anything he liked with the 100l.—the pictures belonged to me—Mr. Newell is an accountant; his house is an office; he was also to have 10 percent, he was on the same footing—nobody else was interested—the prisoner could only give the address where the pictures could be sold—he was to have no power over them in any shape or way—I cannot tell you the value of the pictures—I have lost about 150l. over them to the present moment—I thought I should have made 50l. out of them; they were not increasing in value; they were not by real masters; the Teniers was a real master—I should have
held Newell responsible if he allowed him to take one out of the office—it was about June or July, 1873, I took out the warrant—I went to London again in August or September to Richmond Street, Princes Street, Hay-market—he had a cook-shop there or something like that—I believe he trades in his wife's name—I had no difficulty in finding the house—the lapse of time from August, 1873, to 14th April, 1875, was occasioned by my having other things to attend to—I was informed at the police-station last month that the detective, Beechy, who had the warrant for his apprehension was dead—I not being aware of that, thought perhaps, he was looking after the prisoner—I took no steps between the time to press in the matter—I had been to London again, perhaps twice—I thought the pictures were all lost—if I said it was 1873 I took the warrant out I meant 1874—I stated so before Mr. Knox—I was in London in August, 1873—I do not know, I could not remember, it was months after 1 took out the warrant that I came to England again—I did not see the prisoner the first time—the detective and I traced him to various pawnshops, but could not get his address—Mr. Beechy told me when he found his address he would inform me of the matter—I came so London again about August of last year—I took no steps to charge him with stealing the pictures between August, 1873, and June, 1874—I had already put it in the detective's hands—a Mr. De Leur, a painter, knew his address and I found him where he told me—I did not see my own picture exhibited in the window there—I saw him there and he said he had no longer the pictures, that he had done away with them, and if he had any trouble he would stick me with a knife—that was about 9 o'clock at night—at 7.40 the next morning I started for Brussels—I didn't charge him then because I was bound to be on the Continent the next morning—I did not know that I could have gone to Scotland Yard up to 1 o'clock in the morning—I had been to a detective before—I went back to Brussels to consuit my wife and she thought him a very dangerous customer—she asked me to have nothing to do with the vagabond—I then saw his brother and told him the facts, and he said "Do what you like with him, it will not alter our friendship"—this was the next morning after I got back—I then returned to London without any trace of him, not knowing where he was—I knew where he had been—I met Mr. De Leur one evening and he said "Was not one of your pictures attributed to Teniers?"—I said "Yes," and I went up to Princes Street and waited till dark and went and looked in; the window and recognised it, and then I showed some activity in the matter and went straight to Vine Street—I should not at all suppose he had been left some money; I should think very much to the contrary—I have not made any proposition to withdraw from the prosecution on payment of so much money, nor has such an offer been made by any one with my authority—his brother, of whom I have spoken, is not dead—I do not know of any relative of the prisoner's having died and left him money. ('The following papers were read: "Received of Mr. Wilkinson the sum of 2, 500 francs for the sale of the pictures which I have made to him this day. Signed, V. G. Veldekins. London, 18th April, 1873." "I, the undersigned, agree to sell to Mr. Wilkinson the pictures in one lot, that is to say forty-eight altogether, which I have at this present moment and which are in London, all my own property to dispose of them as I think proper. Mr. Wilkinson will pay when taking possession and at the signature of these presents 2, 500 francs for settling the amounts of the prices of the forty-eight pictures sold 1 to him one with the other. London, 18th April, 1873. V. G. Veldekins,"
"Received of Mr. Horace Wilkinson the sum of 6l. 9s., that is to say, 169 francs, as a loan. V. G. Veldekins. London, 29th April, 1873;"). The 100l. was paid by me in pursuance of the agreement of the 18th April (picture produced)—that is the picture I found in the prisoner's place—I identify. it as one of the pictures I bought and one of those deposited by me with Mr. Newell.
THOMAS NEWELL . I live in Aldersgate Street—I had premises at No. 2, Jermyn Street in the present year—in the year 1873 about forty or forty-one pictures were entrusted to me by the prosecutor—I think it was: in or about the month of April—they were left in my charge at Mr. Wilkinson's disposal—I remember on one occasion finding a cab outside the door; about July I think in the same year—it contained pictures which had been removed from my office, the same that had been deposited in my office by Mr. Wilkinson—I saw the prisoner outside in charge of them—I eventually took the pictures back in my office—I found that twelve or thirteen had already been removed.
Cross-examined. I think my saying at the Police-court it was seven or eight pictures I found had been removed was a mistake—I think there were twelve or thirteen.
By THE COURT. I remember that picture by Teniers, that is one of those I found missing—I went to the Police Court but I could not prefer a charge, the pictures not being mine.
THOMAS JOHN AINGER . I am an articled clerk to a solicitor—in 1873 I was clerk to Mr. Newell—somewhere about June of that year I was inthe the office when the prisoner and another man came to remove some pictures, about 11 o'clock—he represented that the-pictures were his and he was going to remove them—I had only been at Mr. Newell's office for about a week previously, and I really knew nothing of the ownership of the property, and I allowed the pictures to go under a mistake—could not fix the number of pictures that were removed—there was a cab outside—thero was a large picture hanging over the mantel-piecewhich theyremoved bodily—this picture was one that was removed.
Cross-examined. It was done in the morning, in business hours.
By the. Court. I was expecting Mr. Newell every minute—I thought he would arrive as the pictures were being removed, which he did; but this large one, the arming of Minerva, had been already removed when he came, and I went to Vine Street, with him-and they refused to take the. charge—we drove round to the Vine Street Police Station, the prisoner riding on the box—they were in the act of taking out another when Mr. Newell came upon the scene, and said "You must not take them, you have no right to remove them," and we all went round to the police-station together—no cab. had gone away before Mr. Newell arrived—the cab outside was just loaded ready to start—the large picture had been taken away by hand—the Teniers was in the cab-we went with the pictures in the cab to Vine Street, and I think this one was amongst the number—there was certainly one removed by the prisoner that morning.
Re-examined. I should think there were. twelve or thirteen pictures in the cab.
THOMAS NEWELL (recalled). I. did not get back all the pictures, I only got back the second lot—there had been a first lot got previously—they had been removed in some way—they might have been carried away by hand.
JAMES CLEGWORTHY . I am assistant to Mr. Joseph William Clark, pawn broker, of 55, Long Acre—I recognise this book as belonging to our establishment—it is dated 15th July 1873, and is for duplicates over 5l. (Mr. Wilkinson identified the signature of Vital Veldekins in the book.) Witness. "15th July, 1873, pawned by Vital Veldekins, of 379, Strand, painting for 5l."—it was "Vulcan arming Minerva"—I have seen that picture there—I never had anything to do with the picture after I sold it.
WILLIAM COX (book handed to Witness). That book has nothing whatever to do with me—this is quite a different thing—this is not a special contract this duplicate (produced) is simply two paintings pledged for 3l.—I simply know that they were pledged at our establishment, that is all—I do not know by whom—these are the two pictures—the third picture the prisoner brought subsequently to pawn and we stopped it and took it round to Vine Street; I. fancy it was my father who stopped it.
Prisoner's Defence (Interpreted.) The receipt produced for 2, 500 francs was not given for the sale of the pictures, but as a safe-guard and guarantee so that Mr. Wilkinson might not be injured by other people, for the purpose that other creditors should not come forward and lay their hands on these pictures; had they not been my property how; could I have fixed a price on these pictures myself? When I asked Mr. Newell three or four months afterwards if any pictures of mine had been sold he said "No, the prices for your pictures are a great deal too high," and he then asked me to make out another list which I did at a lower price than the former one. If, therefore, these pictures were not my property, that I could not have done either; I should not have thought of selling the pictures for 2, 500 francs—40 odd pictures—when for 15 of them alone I had paid to Wilkinson and others 5, 000 francs. I want to refer here that my commercial affairs have since 1862 been placed under guardianship under some liquidator or official person named by the Court in Brussels and Mr. Wilkinson was fully aware of this, and therefore profited by this fact to my prejudice.
GUILTY — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GOODMAN the Defence.
THEOPHILOS DAVIS . I live at the Kettledrum Tavern; St. George's Street, East—I assist my father—on Sunday evening, the 14th March, there were three sailors in the public-house when the prisoner came in and joined them and they called for brandy and soda—the prisoner was not drunk—I cannot say whether he had been drinking—he appeared to be sober—he spoke to the sailors, they appeared to know him and they spoke to him and addressed him by his name "Antonio"—I thought they had been shipmates together and they treated him on one or two occasions to lemonade and so on, and there were three sodas called for and brandy in each—at the time they were called for the prisoner had gone outside when put on the bar the prisoner came in and he took hold of one of the glasses and said "good health" or something of that kind—he spoke in English, and the man who called for the drinks said "You put that down,
Antonio," that it belonged to him or Jack or somebody, and the prisoner looked very savage and dashed it down, and the party who called for the drinks then said "Call for what you like"—prisouer said "Come out, you b," and opened the door, and the party tried to laugh it off and said: "Nothing of that kind, come and have a drink"—the prisoner-didn't take any notice of that and kept on magging for twenty minutes at least—I thought it would be wise for me to go round and try. to pacify him—I spoke to him and said' "You must not make this raw here to night, Sunday night, these men don't want: to quarrel with you, they seem to be friends of yours," and he said Vot do you want you b----—?"—I said "I want nothing, you must keep quiet"—while I was speaking one of the sailors caught hold of his scarf round his neck and up with his other-hand to hit him as I thought—put my right hand up before the prisoner's face and the other hand to release the prisoner from the other's grip—while—had my two hauds up and trying to keep order I felt the knife—I could not see him take the knife out—he thrust it into my left thigh and then into my right on the outside—I then put "my right hand up as I thought to protect myself from further violence, and he gave my hand a cut here just outside the doorway—he made three or four stabs at me which ran through my side in four places—then, I believe, he made three or four more which did not strike me—the knife was afterwards picked up on the kerb by Collins-two customers came across the road and the prisoner made to go off, and got four or five doors further from our house and they ran after him and he was taken into custody—they met a policeman at 200 or 300 yards—he was taken to the statioin—was under the doctor's care for nearly four weeks, I believe, within three or four days—a fortnight last Friday I came out—I bad never seen the prisoner before—he was a perfect stranger to me.
Cross-examined. I did not try to turn him out of the public-house—never laid my hands on the-man—neither of the three sailors are here. Daniel Collins. I am a coal porter and live in Johnson Street, Shadwell—I was passing the Kettledrum on the night in question and saw the prisoner come out and saw Davis forced out—I saw the prisoner stab Davis in the right band with a knife—he afterwards made several other stabs at Davis, but part of the knife broke off and fell down by the side of the road—a friend along with me picked it up and gave it to the constable—the prisoner didn't appear to be drunk—he was jumping about in the road after ho stabbed Mr. Davis.
Cross-examined.—I could not say whether he had been drinking—I did not see him before I saw him outside in the street.
JOHN COAKLEY . I live at 117, Pennington Street, St. George's, and am a labourer—I was inside this public-house on the night in question in the next compartment; I did not see what took place inside—outside I saw the man jumping about with a knife and I ran to Mr. Davis's assistance—he received a stab in his hand and also—n the ribs—I heard something-fall, which I thought was a knife—he did not seem to be drunk to me.
JAMES HAREIS . I live in Morgan Street, St. George's, and am an oilman—I was outside the public-house on the night in question and saw the prisoner outside with Davis and saw him make a stab at Davis, back and: front of the thigh—I did not interfere—I was about 5 yards off.
Cross-examined. The prisoner had been drinking, but knew perfectly well what he was about.
RICHARD MARTIN (Policeman 46 K. R.) On the 14th March I was near this tavern—I saw the prisoner some 200 yards this aide in company with other men—there was a crowd—he was in company with Davis and another man when I went up—I afterwards got this knife, which is a sailor's knife, a pocket knife (produced)—the top is broken off—I told him what he was charged with, but I don't think he understood me—he seemed very much excited, but he had been very much ill-used by the mob before I had hold of him—I think if I had not been there when I was, the mob would almost have killed him—Davis had gone to the hospital by that time.
Cross-examined. I did not see many marks of ill-usage—he was struck several times before I laid hold of him.
RALPH LEWELLEN . I am house-surgeon at the. London Hospital—Davis was brought in on Sunday, the 14th March—he. had a long wound in the right hand, about 3 1/2 inches Jong, an incised wound, and two half an inch long and half an inch deep on the right thigh and on the left thigh, a wound 4 inches deep and 4 inches long—I could put my finger in it—it was a very dangerous wound, in close proximity to the femoral" artery, within a quarter of an inch or less—they were such wounds as might be inflicted by the knife produced.
Prisoner's Defence. I was quite drunk, and did not know anything about it.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding Two Year's Imprisonment.
MR. TICKELL conducted the Prosecution; and MR. COHEN the Defence.
Cross-examined. Greenock is not a very large town—I got it from the police station there—I did not fill up any of the blanks, or-anybody else—I compared it—there was no minister's name in the register, that I compared it with—I was present at the marriage—I saw the prisoner and Elizabeth Smith, whom he married—I heard and saw her five minutes ago—the marriage was in a private house—(Read)—I heard him asked if he took the woman to be his wife—I heard him assent, and heard her say she took the man to be her husband.
Re-examined. They had a few, in family; they might have had moro perhaps—they lived together as man and wife.
WILLIAM MORGAN (Policeman). I produce a certificate of the second marriage; I have compared it with the entry in the register, and it is a correct copy—I afterwards apprehended the prisoner—I told him I should take him in custody for feloniously marrying Rose Sabine Cheek, his wife Elizabeth being then alive—he said "They will do no good by it" (This certified the marriage of John Forrest and Rose Sabine Cheek at Plumstead on 22nd October, 1872.)
GEORGE MILLER . I live at 91, Maxted Road, Plumstead—I was present at St. Nicholas's Church, Plumstead, on 22nd October, 1872, when the prisoner was married to my niece—he described himself as a batchelor—I have know him for four or five years.
THOMAS AIRD . I was present when that first certificate was drawn out from the register of the West parish church in Greenock—I saw it copied out and signed by the Registrar, Mr. Baird—I have known him pers onally for above twenty years.
MR. COHEN submitted that there was no proof that the prisoner had seen his wife within the last seven years, upon which the Court considered that there was no case to go to the Jury.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. FRITH conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY CHARLES WALES '. I carry on business at 22, Lndgate Hill, as Wales & McCullough, jewellers—on the morning of the 17th April, about 11.30 the prisoner came in, I heard him ask to be shown some scarf pins—I saw some shown to him by my son—I was standing by his side, and could see and hear all that went on—the "prisoner selected one pin and aid he would call in an hour—he walked towards the door, and as his hand was lifted to open it, one of my assistants who had been by the counter seized his hand and said "You have something belonging to us," and the scarf pin (produced) was there—saw it taken out of his hand—t was my property—I certainly had not sold it to him—it is worth five guineas—I went for the police and gave him in charge—offered to pay for it and said he had 1, 200l.
HENRY PILLING (City Policeman 428). I was Called on the morning of 17th April to take the prisoner—he said he was taking the pin to the door to look at it, and that he had 1, 250l. in his pocket—I searched him at the station and found 9s. 2d. on him with cards and papers, including these cards of jewellers, (produced): Sir John Bennett, Cheapside, and Burlton, jeweller, 59, Cheapside, and a receipt which he explained to me as being, a receipt for 15, 000 florins in the Four per Cent Dutch Consols; 12, 000 in the name of Horton, and 3, 000 in the' name of Dr. Part, but it has been explained to me by the Consul that they had been mortgaged and were quite useless to the prisoner.
ALEXANDER McDONALD . I am assistant to Mr. Wales—on Saturday, April 17th, the prisoner came in about 11.30—I was standing in front of the counter, about 2 yards from the door—I saw him being shown some pins and saw him "in the act of leaving ike. shop—I saw him take a pin, and I went after him and found the pin in the hollow of his hand and said You have some property belonging to us" he said nothing to that The prisoner in his defence stated that he took up the pin, but put it down again, stating that he was unable to pay so much for it
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury —he was further charged with a previous, conviction, to which, he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven Years penal Servitude.
MR. COHEN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. RIBTON defended Thompson.
FREDERICK DOWNS (City Policeman). On 19th, April, about 3 o'clock—I was in Tower Dock, a very little distance from Tower Hill, with. Halse and Forrester—there-was a great crowd on the free opening of the Tower, there was also a crowd round a man with performing cats—watched them and saw the prosecutor come into the crowd—Anderson placed himself by his side, and Thompson immediately behind—they remained there a minute or two, left and crossed Tower Hill, and Anderson gave something to Thompson, who looked at it, and they went through Savage Gardens, and Crutched Friars, to the corner of Mark Lane, wheh they appeared to notice that they were being followed—they commenced
running, crying out "Stop thief!"—100 or 200 gentlemen were coming out from the Corn Exchange, and they wedged them in—Thompson ran up a court where there was no thorough fare, he put his hand in his trousers' pocket, and threw something up against a lot of cases against the wall—we searched the cases and found this watch (produced) in a number of pieces—Halse picked it up—when I saw the prosecutor there, I noticed a chain hanging from his pocket—I conveyed Thompson to the station.
Cross-examined. The prosecutor did not go into the middle of the crowd, but outside—I did not know any one else behind him except the prisoners and myself; I was standing by, just on the pavement—I, was watching them for some time—I did not see either of them take the watch—I noticed the chain gone from the prosecutor's waistcoat—I did not speak to him—I did not ask him whether he had lost anything, because I knew he had—he went away and I saw him afterwards at the station—if he had not gone to the station we might have had an indictment here for stealing the watch of somebody unknown—I am guided by circumstances in asking if anything is lost; perhaps I know how to manage those things better than you do had spoken to the prosecutor, the prisoners would have been-off. and I should have got neither prisoners nor watch—it is very possible if I had spoken to the prosecutor that they would have got away.
EDWARD FORRESTER (Detective Sergeant). I was with the last witness, an exhibition of birds and cats was going on—I saw the prosecutor go into the crowd; I saw that he had a chain—I saw the prisoner Anderson was close to him and Thompson close behind him—I remained watching and saw the two prisoners leave the boy, and in consequence of a communication Downs made to me I followed them—I tried, to get as close as possible—at the corner of Mark Lane, Thompson Iooked back—I ran round some courts and found they were running down the opposite side of Mark Lane towards Great Tower Street as fast as they could and some gentlemen pursued them across the road and caught Anderson who I took hold of-Thompson ran up a gateway—I took Anderson up the. gateway where Thompson was, and saw Halse pick up this portion of the watch—I found the case of the watch in Anderson's right hand pocket.
Cross-examined. I saw the boy come into the crowd; he was trying to see what was going on—the exhibition had not long commenced—there had been a previous exhibition to this—I did not notice others behind him besides the prisoners—he pushed into the crowd and the prisoners followed him up.
DANIEL HALSE (Detective Officer). I was with Downs and saw the prosecutor standing by Tower Dock, and Anderson and Thompson close to him—I saw Anderson leave him, followed by Thompson and go through Crutched Friars into Mark Lane—Anderson was stopped by the crowd and Thompson ran up a gateway—he tried to come back again, but I locked him into a packing case; I afterwards went behind the case and picked, up this portion of the watch.
ROBERT LEIGHTON . I am twelve years old, and go to school—on the day in question I left my father's office in Great Tower Street about 3 o'clock—I went to Tower Hill and was looking at some performing cats and birds and had at that time a watch and chain—when I left my father's office I put my watch in my pocket not showing the chain, but it might have worked out—the watch and chain produced are mine—after I had looked at the exhibition a little while I missed my watch and I went to the police-office.
Cross-examined. I am quite certain of it; I put the chain in my pocket—it is such a big watch—I said at the Police Court that I put my chain in my pocket; I did not see it hanging out—it must have have worked out—I don't know that it did positively—it was my great coat pocket—I put it there until I saw the cats—I worked my way through the crowd as well as I could—there were people before me and people by the side of me—my watch could not work out of my pocket by itself—the chain might work out from my being about all day it is not a very deep pocket—I felt nothing—I did not look at my watch to see the time, because it was not going—I have had two other watches—I have a silver one at home.
Cross-examined by Anderson. I did not see you beside me.
THOMPSON'S STATEMENT BEFORE THE MAGISTRATE "We were standing round the crowd on Tower Hill, and Anderson, feeling something under his foot. picked it up and saw it was a watch. He told me what he had found, and we walked away together, and on the top of Tower Hill he gave the watch to me."
GUILTY —Thompson was further charged with a conviction of felony in April, 1868,
to which he
ANDERSON* Two Years' Imprisonment THOMPSON Seven Years Penal Servitude.
FOURTH COURT Thursday, May, 6th, 1875.
Before Mr. Recorder
GUILTY — Five Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. C. F. GILL conducted the Prosecution.
ALFRED ANDREWS . I live at 9, Blossom Street, Norton Folgate—am a packing-case maker—on Sunday night, 4th April, I left my house about 9.30—I live in the ground floor—it is let out in tenements—when I left my house the door was fast, with an ordinary lock—I locked the door and took the key with me, and went to a public house at the top of the street, about fifty yards off—my. wife was in thereat the time—my wife left me, to go home, and I heard her scream out "Police!" about ten minutes after—I ran out of the public house and said "What is it?"—she said "A man is in the place, and he has gone down that way"—I did not see anybody—I examined the door, and found the bolt was out, as if it had been opened with a key—there was no light in my house when I went out—the prisoner was taken into custody by a friend of mine—there was a. light in the room-when I came back—I heard him say to the policeman "Ask that woman if she has lost anything"—he appeared as if he had been drinking a little.
EMMA ANDREWS . I am the wife of the last witness—on Sunday night, the 14th April, I was in the public-house when my husband came there—I. went home about 9.30, having got the key from my husband—I went with
a friend, Mrs. Bostock—she got to the door first, and she said "Be quick"—two men ran round the corner and blew a whistle—I saw a man come out of my room, and I took hold of him by the coat—the prisoner is the man—I held him as tight as I could, and when he found I would not let him go he hit me in the breast—he went to get away, and as he went away I tore his coat—there was a light in the room when I came in.
Prisoner. I was not in her room; the reason I was there was to prevent the wind blowing a match out; I was on the threshhold of the street door.
Witness. He was not outside the house—he came out of my room, and I took hold of him—the lock was temporary—it could be easily opened but not without something, because the lock of the door was out—in the passage I saw him come out of my room.
MARGARET BOSTOCK . I live at 9, Blossom Street, and am the wife of James Bostock—on the night in question I walked home with Mrs. Andrews—I reached the door a minute or two before her, and there were two young men left the house and gave a very shrill whistle—at that moment I entered the passage and saw the prisoner coming round by the table from her bed, and he faced me in the room—the door was open—there was a light in the room—I spoke to Mrs. Andrews and the prisoner struck her in the breast as he passed her—he ran away and Mrs. Andrews ran after him, and he was brought back.
EDWARD LAKE (Policeman 219 H.) I was on duty close by Blossom Street on Sunday night, the 4th, when I saw the prisoner running very rapidly through Spital Square—I saw he was followed by others, and thinking something was wrong I ran after him—I was within three yards of him when he was stopped, and I brought him back to Blossom Street—I heard Mrs. Andrews say when I came up "The man I caught hold of I tore his coat"—she said "That is the man"—he admitted he had been there, and said he had been there for a gambling purpose—his coat was torn—he was sober.
Prisoner. One says I had been drinking and one says I was perfectly sober.
GUILTY **— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
JAMES MONICO . I keep a restaurant at 23, Aldgate—I think both the prisoners are French—they were not in my employ, but they were working in my house for about a week about eight months ago; the old man and the other man had been working eight months ago, three or four times after that too—I did not miss anything at the time—these knives (produced) are mine—they have every one the address of my restaurant on them.
Cross-examined. I have no idea when I last saw them safe—I know a man named Piguot; he worked in my house too; he and the prisoners worked together, but I did not know they lived together—I have heard that they lived and worked together—I do not know that Piguot has been charged at the Middlesex Sessions with felony.
WILLIAM BOYLE (Policeman). I assisted in searching 23, Green Street—the knives were handed to me by Lallandre—I did not know whose knives they were—I never saw the prisoners there—they were in custody when
their room was searched—they were taken into custody on another charge by Inspectors Marsh and Aunger.
HENRY AUNGER (Police Inspector E). I arrested Vincent at, I think it is 22, Green Street—I did not search the room on the ground floor—I think there is a back room on the ground floor, but I saw him in the front room—I did not search him there, but I did at the station, and-found on him 37 pawnbrokers' duplicates.
NOT GUILTY .
Prisoners were again indicted for stealing a bedstead, a metal pot, and other articles , upon which no evidence was offered. NOT GUILTY .
MR. CROOME conducted the Prosecution; and MR. RIBTON the Defence,
ISAAC MENDOZA . I live at 15, Petticoat Square, and am a cigar-maker—on the night of the 29th March I was in a barber's shop in Wentworth, Street—when I came out I saw a man named Driscol outside—I knew him before—there were a good many others outside—I saw the prisoner alongside of me—Driscol had his coat off, and wanted to fight—I touched him on the shoulder, and told him to go home—he said he would fight anyone—he punched me on the cheek, and I told him not to be foolish, but to go home—I said "I don't want to fight," and he hit me again-a third time he made an attempt, and of course I defended myself, and I was thrown down by Driscol, and I found my left arm being ripped up—I could not see what it was done with—Driscol had hold of me—I did not see the prisoner at that time—when I was going off to the hospital my attention was called to the prisoner who was in custody, and they said "This is the man that done it"—I went to the station, and Dr. Phillips, the divisional surgeon, was called to, dress, my arm—I was laid up nearly six weeks; it is getting well now.
Cross-examined. I cannot say whether Driscol seized me by the necktie—I was on the ground—I felt myself being tightened by the throat, and my handkerchief was then cut; it is only a little necktie; I cannot say who cut it; somebody cut the handkerchief—I thought I had left the handkerhief in the barber's shop—I had never seen Carthy before. Solomon Green. I live at 72, Goulston Street, and keep a beer shop—on the night of 29th March I was in Wentworth Street, and saw Mendoza there and a man named Driscol-Driscol was fighting with several-persons—there was a crowd—Carthy was there, and he and Driscol were wrangling together—Carthy was endeavouring to get, his coat on and then he was pulling it off and then on again, and Mendoza came out of the barber's shop and tried to get them away—Mendoza and Driscol wrestled, and they were first down on the ground and then up again—I heard-Mendoza say he was stabbed.
By THE COURT. I heard them call out "Cut the handkerchief, or he will be choked"—I heard Mendoza holloa out "I am stabbed, I am stabbed!"—I said to Carthy "You done that"—he said "I-have got-no knife"—in. the first instance Driscoll wanted to fight Mendoza, and Mendoza tried to get away and said "Well fight for bread and cheese"—I did not hear Carthy say anything—there were 200 or 300 people there—one was talking
to one lot and one to another lot—there was a general melee between them—I heard some one say "I can do him."
Cross-examined. I heard some one say "You are big enough"—I saw somebody with a knife and the same instant the handkerchief was cut Mendoza called out "I am stabbed!"—the man who cut the handkerchief is in Court—I think I said he was a cowardly scoundrel, and he said "I have got no knife"—I should be very sorry to say anything that I was not certain about—that is all I saw—I went with Mendoza to the station—Carthy was dressed in the same manner as he is now, and the man who cut the handkerchief, Barnett, had a white coat on similar to the prisoner's.
WILLIAM AARON . I live at 12, Goulston Street—I was in Wentworth Street, between 6 and 7 o'clock on the evening of 29th March, and saw a man there, I don't know whether his name was Driscol, and Carthy, and Mendoza,—I saw a knife in Carthy's hand—I didn't see Mendoza stabbed with the knife—I saw no more than the knife in Carthy's hand.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. MOODY and MR. A. METCALFE, conducted the Prosecution; and MR. J. P. GRAIN the Defence.
CLARA DAVIS . I live at 18, Belvidere Road, Lambeth, and have known the prisoner for about three years—I am an unfortunate and she is too—we both frequent the neighbourhood of the Strand—I remember the 16th March—I had had no quarrel with the prisoner on that day or previously—as I went down the Waterloo Road the prisoner said I had taken away a gentleman friend from her and I begged her pardon—that was two nights before—on the 16 March I saw the prisoner about 9.30 in the evening in the Strand—I was told to get into a cab as she was going to stab me—I was just getting in when the man who was living with the prisoner pulled me out and knocked me down on my back in the road, close by the pavement—the prisoner bent over me with a white-handled knife, and I felt a sharp instrument in me, here and here (pointing to the head)—I was taken to the hospital—the surgeon dressed my head that night—I went again the day but one after wards, I remained for some time, till the '6th April.
Cross-examined. I have been charged frequently at Bow Street with speaking to gentlemen—I have not been charged with* assaults that I know of—girls quarrel sometimes—I have been charged with loitering and speaking to gentlemen; nothing more—I had not repeated quarrels with the prisoner before this night—she accused me of taking a gentleman friend from her and said she would make me suffer for it—the man who pulled me out of the cab has gone to Ireland, because the warrant was against him and the woman too—I didn't say I was on the pavement—I fainted away—I saw a white-handled knife—she threw herself on the top of me—she struck me, and as she struck me I felt a sharp pain—no search was made for the knife at the time—I don't know how I got to the hospital—I was taken there—I never accused anyone else of stabbing me first of all, but Elizabeth Crawley—since giving the prisoner into custody I was met one night and used very badly—the policeman did not go with me and charge Elizabeth Crawley with stabbing me—he went to Annie Rowland—I was thought better after I was first taken to the hospital and let go away—I did not go to a policeman that night and tell him I thought the woman who stabbed
me was Elizabeth Crawley—I don't know whether he is here—I told him it was Annie Rowland, the name the prisoner is known by in the Strand—I went back to the hospital.
ELIZABETH WILLIAMS . I met Clara Davis on the 16th March at 8.30—I was with her from half to three-quarters of an hour in the Strand—this woman's man came up and pulled Clara Davis out of the cab and said "Now, Annie, stab her," and she struck her, and she fell to the ground—I did not see any knife—I saw her bleeding and I went to the hospital with her and saw her wounds bound up—she did not strike the prisoner first.
Cross-examined. There was not a general row there—there-were about fifteen people" or twenty—there was no quarrelling whatever, no excitement—when the young woman fell to the ground a good many people ran up—and heard me say "I believe you are stabbed, Clara," and I received a black eye for saying so—I am quite sure there was a cab there, and I saw her pulled out of the cab—I gave the prosecutrix a shilling to go into the cab.
By THE COURT. I helped to pick her up afterwards, and I received a black eye from one of the prisoner's women—she was saturated with blood when taken to the hospital.
JOHN WILLIAM TAYLOR. I am house surgeon at the Charing Cross Hospital—I attended Davis on the 18th March—I did not see her when she came on the 16th—there is no one here who did—there was only a day intervening—it. was late on the night of the 16th—she was brought in on the. morning of the 18th—she had an incised wound on the top. and left side of the head—she had also some super-ficial cuts on the ear and a punctured wound at the angle of the mouth, on the right side—the punctured wound was inflamed and swollen—he became very much worse after admission, and a large abscess formed on the cheek—after being in the hospital nearly three weeks she was discharged cured on the 6th April—I should say the injuries had been inflicted from 24 to 36 hours—that would be about the time-from 9.30 on the 16th March—I should say the wounds could not have been-caused by a blunt instrument—it must have been a sharp and a pointed knife most likely, not a blow or fall.
Cross-examined. Falling on atones or a projection would not cause a punctured wound like that—I think a sharp piece: of flint or stone might have caused one of them—there was one punctured wound and two cuts on the ear—I think if the wound had been caused by falling on the stone pavement with any sharp projection that there would have been some contilsion—rthe other wound was an incised wound—it is hardly possible that the wounds could have been caused by sharp stones.
Re-examined. There would have been bruises if caused by a fall.
WILLIAM BROWN . (Policeman C 244.) This prisoner was given into my charge on the morning the 13th April—I told her the charge—she said it was only a fair fight, and that she-was injured as much as the prosecutrix was—she said she had marks about her, but I did not see any.
>GUILTY of unlawfully wounding — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.
MR. AUSTIN METCALFE conducted the precution; and MR. PEILE the Defence.
prisoner has been a customer of mine for some time, a very bad one, unfortunately—on 20th April she came to my shop—we cut chops and steaks and put them outside for sale, and they come and pick out what they want and pass them into the shop to be weighed—she stopped outside, picked out two chops, at the top of the board and placed them at the bottom of the board, keeping her arm over the board and passed, another chop in to be weighed—when she moved from the board I saw the two chops she had placed there had gone—I followed her into the shop and accused her—I said "We will have those weighed this time, young lady"—she said "What do you mean?"—I said "The two chops you have taken"—she said "Oh my God! don't prosecute me," or something of that kind—as I went up to her and touched—x, they dropped from under her shawl—sevexa Lpeople saw them—I did not throw out the three chops to. be weighed—she passed one chop through the open window to be weighed, and then placed the other two under her shawl.
Cross-examined. She sometimes laid out money with me—I know she has some young men lodgers—we never allow any person to take their meat round—we have men outside, or I am there myself, to pass the meat in to be weighed—ours is a very large business—I was outside the shop standing close to the prisoner—she did not take up three chops, and say "Weigh these"—she passed one little chop over to be weighed—she did not walk into the shop with two chops in her hand—I went into the shop to her after I was quite positive she Lad the chops in her possession—I followed her into the shop—I didn't say "You are going to steal them"—I said, "We have been watching you a long time and you have come once too often"—laccused her of stealing them by saying "We will have them weighed"—she said "For God's sake, for the sake of my husband and children, don't prosecute me"—I cannot remember whether she said. "Good gracious! what do, you mean?"—there were three or four others there besides my own men—I did not push or jostle her in any way—I lifted her shawl and the chops fell on the floor—my men saw them fall—I have spoken to Mrs. Jones about this and said I have been here ever since Monday, that it had cost me a great deal of trouble—a son—n-law of the prisoner's came round and offered me a sovereign not to prosecute and I said it was out of my power—1. have referred to a Mr. Wagstaffe who locked a man up and could not prove the case, and it cost him 200l.
EDWARD ELLINGHAM . I am assistant to Mr. Cramp—I saw the prisoner I saw the prisoner in our shop on the morning of the 20th April, not at the board—Mr. I Cramp was speaking to her and I saw. the chops drop from under her shawl—I heard Mr. Cramp say to her "We will have these weighed this time"—she said "Oh, for God's sake don't" or something, and asked him if he would allow her to pay for them—it was before that that the chops dropped on the ground—he touched her on the shoulder and the chops dropped—I am certain they dropped from under her arm.
Cross-examined. I didn't see what happened outside the shop—Mr. Cramp touched her on the shoulder—they fell from under her arm or. shawl because her arm was under her shawl—I didn't see her pass three chops in to be weighed—I was in the shop.
ALFRED YOUL . (Policeman K 158). I was called to the prosecutor's shop about 10.30 on the morning of 20th April and saw the prisoner there—Mr. Cramp said "I give that woman in charge for stealing two mutton chops"—she made no reply—I took her to the station and on the way she
Said "I took the chops, but I would have paid for them if Mr. Cramp would have let me go"—Mr. Cramp came up to the station and the prisoner said in my presence "Pray let me go and I will give you half a sovereign."
Cross-examined. She first said that at the station—the statement was first made at the Stratford Police Court after the prosecutor had been examined—a female searched her at the statiou and found a sovereign and a 6d. and I think some halfpence—she said "I took the chops"—she was rather agitated.
The Prisoner received a good character.
GUILTY. Strongly recommended to mercy by Jury — To enter into Recognizances.
OLD COURT—Friday, May 6th, 1875.
Before Mr. Justice Archibald.
MR. MOODY conducted the Prosecution and MR. DANIELS the Defence.
THOMAS DAYER, JUNR . I am a commercial traveller, and live at 11, Spring Grove, Chiswick—the prisoner is my father, he and my mother reside with me—there were only us three in the house, we keep no servant on the morning of 1st April, I came downstairs, about 6.30, my father was down at that time, we had some cocoa together—he had got it ready for me—I then went out into the garden to look at some plants that I was going to take up to town and then went into an outhouse to wash my hand-when I rose from washing my hands I felt a blew behind, after the report of a pistol—I put my hand behind my head" and found it was all blood—I turned round and saw my father standing, about a yard behind me, with his back to the door of the outhouse which opens inside, the door was open—had a pistol in his hand, holding it with his arm extended and pointing towards me—I flew at the pistol and caught hold of the barrel—we had a tustle outside, and in the course of the struggle I pushed him against the fence that divides Mr. Flack's garden from ours—it gave way. beneath our weight, my father then let go of the pistol—I did not fall; I found myself in Mr. Flack's garden, and I went and knocked at his door with the pistol in my hand—no one came, and I went back again through the fence—I did not see my father, but I received a cut on my cheek-bone with a chopper, this is the chopper and the pistol (produced)—the chopper was usually kept in the outhouse—I had not seen it that morning—I had used it on Good Friday—when I received the blow I flew on the chopper—my father had it in his hand—I got hold of one or both of his wrists and straggled with him; we went up against the door of the outhouse and fell together—while we were on the ground Mr. Flack came out and held him down, while I got from underneath him; my right leg was under him—I got up and went for assistance to a neighbour's—I believe I put the pistol on a box in the yard—two constables came and Dr. Weatherhead, who attended to me and sent me to the West London Hospital, where I remained till the 26th—there had not been any quarrel between my father and I—I know of no motive which could induce him to attack me—he has an annuity of 25l. a year—I believe he had had a larger sum which ceased, but I don't know that—I used to pay the rent
and the principal expenses—my father used very often to apply to mo for money, the last time was about two months' ago, that is, a month before the 1st April—he then asked me when I came down in the morning if I had got any money—I said "No"—he said he had no money, and he was in debt—I said "More shame for you to say so"—the conversation then dropped and it was not referred to again in any way—I did not keep any money at home.
Cross-examined. My father is sixty-nine years of age, I think—we have lived together about ten years—he has had this pistol for years—it has three barrels and can be fired together, or one, two, or three at a time—we have lived together on very good terms indeed, we have never had a quarrel since I lived with him—an uncle of mine, ray father's brother, was I believe out of his mind and. put under restraint, so an uncle of mine who is now dead told me—I did not know him myself—I cannot suggest any possible motive for my father having acted in this manner.
JAMES FLACK . I live at 10, Spring Grove, next door to the' prisoner and; his son—shortly before 7 o'clock in the morning of 1st April, I heard a knocking at my door and a cry of murder—I came down and saw the fence that separates the two yards broken down—I then saw the prisoner and his son lying before the doorway of the outhouse, the prisoner partly lying on his son's legs—he had this chopper clasped in his right hand, and his son was holding, his wrist tightly to prevent his using it any further—he said "He has shot me"—the prisoner made no remark—I said "For God's sake what is the matter"—I took the pistol from the son; he was holding it in his hand; straight away from him, and holding his father's hand with the other—I then relieved the son and continued to hold the prisoner down till some one arrived—wrested the. chopper from the prisoner and threw it on one side, they were both bleeding, the prisoner from the forehead—he said it was done in the scuffle—I asked him several times what made him do; this, but got no reply—I kept talking to him all the time till the constable came, what a wicked thing it was, and what made him do it, and he said he might as well he without brains as to be without money—I should think I had charge of him half an hour before the constable arrived.
Cross-examined. I did not witness the scuffle, I was in bed when it happened, I came down from the alarm at the back door—they appeared to be both exhausted when I saw them on the ground, the prisoner was lying partly on his son—I should imagine there had been a violent struggle by the appearance—I have, lived next door to them nine years, the prisoner was always a very good neighbour; what I saw of him—four years; ago he had a paralytic stroke and since then he has seemed wild and has not been the same man—I can't say that I have noticed any singularities in his demeanour since; he has not been so calm and collected as he was previously; since the paralytic stroke he has had a very wild appearance.
Re-examined. on this morning he looked very wild and his eyes appeared to project from his head—he did not attempt to escape while. I was holding him; he said "Don't hold me too tight, Jemmy, I shall not hurt you"—I said I don't suppose you will"—he did not refer-at all to what he had done—I was talking to him all the time and could not get him to make any answer—there did not appear to be any agitation in his manner.
ALEXANDER DENNY (Policeman TR 13). In consequence of information, I went to 11, Spring Grove, and got there about 7.20—I saw the prosecutor sitting on a chair in the back room—I saw that he had three small wounds
On the back part of his head—I then went into the yard and saw the prisoner and Mr. Flack with him—I found the pistol on the mantelpiece in the front room; it smelt very strongly of powder, it was unloaded—since it has been in my custody a part of the flint apparatus has been broken, it was then in a whole condition—I found the chopper on a bench in the outhouse, the prosecutor told me where it was—I took him to the hospital.
WILLIAM GOODSAY (Policeman T 225). I went to the house and took the prisoner into custody about 7.30 on the morning of 1st April—I told him he would have to go with me to the police-station at Chiswick—he made no remark—in passing the Star and Garter he made to cross the road to go to Brentford—I said "No, this way, we arc going to Chiswick"—he said "To go to Chiswick, what for?"—I said "It is in Chiswick district"—he said "Oh, all right"—I took the pistol and the chopper with me to the station—the sergeant asked if the pistol was loaded—I said "No, I have examined it, and there is nothing in it"—the prisoner said "I think you will find one barrel loaded"—I said "The doctor says there are three bullets in your son's head"—he said "Oh, all right then."
Cross-examined. The prisoner seemed very collected, I did not notice anything peculiar in his manner, he was very quiet, in fact he did not speak to me the whole way after passing the Star and Garter, he was not sullen, he seemed more absent than sullen—a bus was coming along and I asked him if he would ride or walk—he said it did not matter which, so we got in and rode to the station—he did not seem affected by the position he.
JOHN FRASER WEATHERHEAD . I am a surgeon, of 2, Claremont Villas, Kew Bridge—on the morning of lst April I was called to 11, Spring Grove, I got there a few minutes past 7 o'clock—I saw the prosecutor in the front room standing up—I found three small wounds on the back of his head; they were bleeding very slightly—I went out into the scullery, got some water and washed the back of his head, and clipped his hair—I found the skin blackened; I probed the wound, and to the best of my belief found three bullets, one in each wound; I detected them with the probe—they were in a triangle, at a rough guess, about the size of the palm of my hand—on the left cheek bone there was a small cut and the side of the face was bruised—also examined the prisoner and found a cut on his forehead—he said "It was caused in the struggle, we fell through the fence and I cut my head"—I found this pistol on the mantelshelf in the front room—I said to the prisoner ""'Have you had the pistol long?"—he said "Many years"—I asked him when it was last charged—he made no reply—I said "How many bullets were there in the pistol?"—he did not answer—Isent the prosecutor to the West London Hospital—we were looking for the chopper, and I said to the constable "Where is the chopper?"—the prisoner said "It is in the wash-house," and it was found there—the wounds were not in themselves dangerous—I had never seen either the prisoner or his son before—when I first saw the prisoner he was on the ground detained by Mr. Flack—his appearance struck me; I believed myself to be in the presence of a man affected with progressive general paralysis of the insane—I was led to that conclusion by his unnaturally calm manner under the circumstances, a child like expression of face, and eyes that I can only describe as being hot, chronically inflamed, but not such inflammation as would attract common attention, not acute inflammation—when I spoke to him I noticed the trembling lips and the halting manner of speech characteristic of general
paralysis—I afterwards saw him walk, he had a shuffling, staggering gait which would tend still more to coufirm my impression—he seemed to have no idea whatever of the gravity of the offence he had committed—when I told him that he would be taken to prison he asked for his spectacles so that he could read there—I saw him afterwards the same morning at the Hammersmith Police Court and he seemed like a man in a dream—the opinion 1 formed was that he was affected with general paralysis of the insane—I had no reason to suppose that those appearances were assumed—I did not see him afterwards until I saw him here yesterday.
Cross-examined. I am a member of the College of Surgeons, a licentiate of the faculty of Glasgow, and a licentiate of the Apothecaries' Company—when I saw him yesterday in the dock he still had the same appearance of face, a face almost without wrinkles—I was for nearly four years resident in the City of London Asylum, during which time I had many cases of general paralysis of the insane under my. charge—the symptoms I observed in these cases entirely coincided with those that I observed in this—I do not consider that I had sufficient opportunity of observing the prisoner to come to a definite conclusion as to his mental state, but his bodily condition would lead me to believe that his mental state was affected—I have found persons of this kind suffering; from, delusions; it is frequently a marked symptom—those delusions take several forms; I have known it take the ft form of intense dislike towards members of their family without any apparent ground—I do not consider a person in that state of health to be of sound mind—the delusions existing in such cases are very numerous; a common delusion is that they are in danger of some violence, or of being attacked, and they provide themselves with means of resisting the attack.
Re-examined. The earliest age at which I have known progressive paralysis of insanity is twenty-eight, and the oldest sixty-six—speaking from my own experience, the average age is between thirty and forty-five—the symptoms are not generally preceded by a paralytic stroke or seizuro—you seldom have those symptoms after a long interval in a person who has had a paralytic stroke; it. is generally the result of a damaged brain—I should not expect to find delusion manifest itself previous to an act of violence—I have known the; delusion to manifest itself suddenly—the patient in, these cases is usually insane some time before it is noticed, and. some indecent, violent or murderous act, brings the patient before a Court of Law; then in some caaes he is recognised as being insane; in others cases he is tried, convicted and sent to prison, and afterwards found to be insane and sent to an asylum—I am speaking of instances I have seen in ray own experience, cases in which I have been professionally engaged—I was assistant medical officer at the City of London Asylum, one of the two, medical officers in charge that is eighteen months ago.
THOMAS GUNTER, ALDEKTON . I am house-surgeon at the West London Hospital, Hammersmith—on 1st April the prosecutor was brought there, and remained under my charge until he left—I have heard the description given of the wounds by Mr. Weatherhead—the wounds in themselves were not dangerous individually, but when taken collectively I considered the case exceedingly dangerous—at the commencement his life might have been in danger—I examined the wounds, and extracted from them two pellets of lead, which produce—I examined him again yesterday, and discovered a lump beneath the scalp, which I have no doubt is a third pellet John Sycamore. I am a smith, and live at 2, Prospect Place, Kew
Bridge—about the middle of March the prisoner brought this pistol to me and asked me to take the top barrel out; he had got the two bottom barrels out—I had to put it in a vice to get it out; it had got rusty; I oiled it and filed it and repaired the wards and gave it back to him; he waited while I did it—you can load the pistol either at the muzzle or by taking the barrel out—the first barrel would not fire before I altered it.
Cross-examined. The other two barrels could have been discharged with-out inconvenience—I know that was about a month before this occurrence; I am quite sure it was not two months.
NOT GUILTY on the ground of insanity .— Ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure .
NEW COURT.—Friday, May 7th, 1875.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. BESLEY and J. P. GRAIN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.
WILLIAM COMBIN HARVEY . In the proceedings produced by the last witness the petition of the debtor—s signed on 2nd December, they have not put the date of the filing—his affidavit is filed on 3rd December, 1874—this is a petition under the liquidation clause—the first meeting of creditors was called for 22nd December, when this resolution was passed. (This was to the effect that a composition of 10s. in the pound should be accepted, payable by instalments.) There is also a resolution appointing me trustee—I find accounts on the file previous to the meeting of 22nd December—they were presented to the meeting of creditors—this is the statement of affairs produced at the first meeting—this shows 1, 143l. 9s. 9d. all unsecured and on the other side I find stock in trade estimated at 662l. 5s. 6d., and book debts 233l. 5s. 6d., estimated to produce 10l. 6s.; cash in hand, nothing; bills of exchange, nothing; furniture, 39l. 4s. 6d.; and fittings, 20l., making the total assets 691l. 6s.—there is an inventory showing the stock in trade 622l. 5s. 6d.—the defendant was present at the meeting—that statement of affairs was laid before that meeting and the defendant produced the. details of the stock in trade of 622l. 5s. 6d—this is it (produced)—here arc eighteen gold pins charged-14l. 5s. and fourteen gold chains 45l. 10s., ten gold watches 74l. 10s., thirty-one night glasses 43l. 17s.; each article has separate price—at the meeting of 22nd December several questions were put to him' by his creditors—eighteen or twenty creditors were present and I was acting for a few of them—the debtor's solicitor, Mr. Griffiths, of Cardiff, was the chairman—the defendant was asked about this stock, and at that time he stated that it was taken by him two or three days before, but he modified that afterwards—he was examined as to his book debts, he said that they were all bad and were only likely to realise 10l. 6s., but when his inventory was taken one by one, he said that they were likely perhaps to realise 100l.—there is-a list of those debts—it was produced on a separate sheet of paper and taken possession of by his solicitor—I have not got it and did not take a copy of it—I examined him upon it—I took
each book debt, seventeen in number, and asked him when the debt was contracted—he gave various answers and I asked him how much it was likely to realise, and I made out that it was likely to realise 100l.—he could not give the addresses of the debtors, but said that he might get it when their ships came in, he gave them with the odd shillings to each amount—he was asked if he had pawned any goods—he said that he had never been in a pawnbroker's shop in his life—he said that that was an inventory he had taken, assisted by his son, two days before this meeting—I attended the subsequent meeting on 4th June—I had not been to Cardiff in the interval—I had not received from the bank rupt any books then—Mr. Griffiths was the chairman—the defendant was there, and his only security was his son, a man of no means, who was abroad, and the meeting refused it, and resolved that the affairs should be liqui-dated by arrangement and not in bankruptcy—trustees were appointed and I telegraphed to Cardiff—no receiver had then been appointed—I went down to Cardiff on, I think, 23rd January, and went to the shop with the prisoner's solicitor—the prisoner was present, and there was a person in possession on our behalf—my attention had been called before that to a discrepancy between the actual goods and those represented in the inventory, and I put questions to the prisoner, which Mr. Griffiths, the clerk of my agent, took down—Sir. Clark and Mr. Corbett were also present—there is what was written down—it is signed by Petrali. (This stated that he never had fifteen gold chains in his shop since he had been in business; that about 250l. of stock which was missing he had sold to sea captains between the time the stock was taken and the appointment of a trustee; that his daughter had sold some-silver watches, and what money she did not spend in house keeping she gave to him, and that he had had 50l. for his own expenses since the filing of the petition; that he did not have so many as fourteen gold chains, that some chains were purchased by a captain, he did not know who; that he had no money received for those goods to hand to the Trustee; that he had sold a binnacle and stand for 10l. and given the money to his daughter and could not hand the money to the Trustee as he wanted some of him, to live upon, that-some of the night glasses had been sold; that he did not know what had become of the barometers put down at 15l. 10s. in his inventory; that he had sold two diamond rings for 40l., on approbation, nine months ago to a man who had gone to sea, and had never received them back or the money; and that he handed two pass-books, which were the only booh he had, to the Trustee) These (produced) are the two pass-books he so handed to me, and the only two—I have gone through them—the payings in are lump sums without exception, and as to the drawings out there is-only one cheque to himself, all the. rest are to customers—I find that between January, 1874, and 26th November, 1874, he paid into his banker's account 1, 953 7s. 3d. and the payments out for the year are about: I the same amount, there is a very slight difference—on an average of four weeks that would be 54l. 7s. 10d. per week—giving the debtor credit for 15l. instead of 50l. in all the other items the deficiency unexplained is 126l. 11s. 4d.—as trustee the total amount of stock at invoice prices which came into my hands was 372l.—deducting that from the inventory of actual stock made by the defendant and afterwards adding to it 31l., the difference between the actual stock and the stock represented was 281l.—if I deduct 77l. for repairs, that leaves a net deficiency of 204l.—I add profit on the sales of 25l. per cent.—I give him credit for the whole of his 50l. expenses, for
everything he has ever claimed, and there is a deficiency of 98l. unexplained by him—he said he could not supply me with the names of the persons who left the goods for repairs, but that they were captains who had gone to sea—these papers (produced) were handed to me an hour or two after he had made the statement I have referred to—they were signed before. (The first of these was headed "The following statement will show, as near as I can give it, how the deficiency arises between my inventory of stock and yours." In this he charged 50l. for his travelling expenses, & c, between London and Bristol, 15l. far his son's travelling expenses from Germany, 12l. for use of wires for obtaining Greenwich-time, and oilier sums amounting to 234l. 3s. 6d.—The second paper was dated Cardiff January 20th, 1875, signed A. Petrali, in which he stated that being out of. health, he was unable to take stock, and was obliged to let his son Ernest do it, who had entered several expensive articles as stock, which were only left by the owners to be repaired, a list of which he annexed.) That is the only list I have seen—on 10th February there was a meeting of creditors in London, he was present and was asked to explain his deficiencies—I read that statement to him and he said that he had nothing to add to it.
Cross-examined. I went to Cardiff only once—I do not find that he owes any tradesman there a single penny—he said that he had been there several years and I-believe it to be true—I did not inquire about his character—a creditor for 60l. is one of his bail—the; largest creditor is Mr. Heath, of Crayford, Kent, for 150l.—the prisoner only attended in London once at my request, but he came up of his own accord twice to meetings of his creditors summoned by himself, that made three times—it is not true that he had bad health and was unable to take the stock himself—it is true that he had been suffering from ill health shortly before-his. affairs passed into liquidation, but you asked me whether he was ill at the time the inventory was taken—he told me that it was his inventory assisted by his son—he has two sons and one step daughter—I have seen those three and no more—Mr. Miller is the solicitor for the prosecution—the creditors cannot pay much of the expense, I believe the Treasury pay some of it—Miss Martin, the step-daughter, was not-examined at the meeting of creditors, she was examined by me at Cardiff—that was part of my business—that is her, sitting there—I ascertained that she had paid 10l. to Mr. Griffiths on account of costs, out of this money—what she said was reduced to writing. (Me. Resley put this examination in as evidence, 'and in it Miss Martin stated that she had received the money as her father stated, and had paid 50l. to him 10l. to Mr. Griffiths, 15l. to her brother, 12l. to the journeyman watchmaker, 6l. to the optician, and 14l. for wages, that she sold eight of the missing twenty, night glasses, to the captainof a ship who had gone to Rangoon, for which he paid about 10l., but could not keep such amounts in her memory, that three of the gold watches belonged to captains, and she thought she had sold the. others, and was sure she had. sold two of them, and that she sold eighteen gold pins in one lot for 13l. to the captain of a ship who had gone to Singapore, whose name she did. not know.) She said that she assisted her father and that he had been ill, that is not put down—I believe it was said after we had concluded the examination the boy who is alleged to have taken stock, was not there—I did not ask to examine him—the. debtor stated at the meeting that the stock in trade was taken at its full value at cost price, and that he was assisted by his son in taking the stock, which was taken a few days before the first meeting: when the deficiency
arose he said that it was taken at the date he filed his petitionit was at the shop at Cardiff that he said that the stock had been taken by his son, he having been very ill, and that that was the reason' of his making a mistake of 70l.—the furniture and stock realised 278l. 18s. 10d.—it wasnot given up, he retains the shop but he has nothing to do with the premises—I tried to get the lease of the premises, but we could not get anything satisfactory.
Re-examined. It was on 25th January, he said that he was too ill and his son had taken stock, but in London, he said that he had taken stock, assisted by his son; I asked him in whose writing the inventory was, and he said his son's—my expenses going down to Cardiff were 5l., including hotel bills—he has given me no explanation of this item of 50l. for travelling expenses—in seeking information from the debtor and his step daughter, I. did my duty according to the statute.
JOHN CARTERGRIFFITHS . Iam clerk to Barnard; Thomas & Co., ac. countants of Cardiff—on 8th. December, I went to the prisoner and said that I had a letter for him from our firm—we had been instructed by Messrs. Roffel, the solicitors, to prepare a statement of his affairs—he opened the letter and read it—he said that the inventory had been partly prepared, but was not quite complete, and we should have it in a day or two—I asked him to send it up to our office when it was completed—I did not receive it and called again two or three days or a week afterwards; I asked him if the inventory was ready, and he gave me this inventory (produced)—I asked him if it was correct—he said that it was—he was in his shop on the two occasions that I called, and on the first occasion there were two men in the shop, customers—on 4th January, I had instructions to take possession, with Mills, another clerk—I arrived there before the prisoner and took possession—he arrived about 10.30—he offered to let me have a bed that night, but said that there were thieves about and we were to be careful, or they might break into the premises—Searle came and relieved me next day and we checked the inventory—the trustee arrived on 23rd January, and the bankrupt was examined—I took these notes in pencil.
Cross-examined. He said afterwards that the inventory was in his own; writing, but that it was taken by his son.
FREDERICK SEARLE . I am employed by Barnard&Co., accountants, of i, Cardiff—on 5th January, I went to Petrali's. premises and found: Griffiths there—I examined the stock and checked it with this fair copy of the inventory (produced)—nine gold rings were absent, and five sets of gold studs, nine sets of plated studs, fourteen gold chains, six aneroid barometers, twenty night glasses, watches, brooches, sextant, quadrants, and other articles amounting to 250l. 15s. at invoice prices—I found on the premises articles not in the inventory of which I made a list, amounting to. 50l. 4s., of which 19l. was for log-books belonging to somebody, which I returned, and which reduces it to 31l. 4s.—he said that he would make a statement if I would write it down—I did so and read it over to him and he signed it.
Cross-examined. He said "If Mr. Clark wants a statementmay have it, but I am a poor Englishman"—he gave me this statement (produced)—he, also dictated this "List of articles in the inventory of stock which ought not to have been entered, as they were left for repairs. (This list named six gold chains, three watches, and four night glasses, amounting to 71l. 1s., to which was added ten marine clocks, 6l. 7s., which had been counted twice in
making the inventory, malting a total of 77l. 11s.), I was not assisted by his by his step-son in checking the goods that I remember, and I cannot remember saying so before the Magistrate—I did say "I was assisted by his son; Ernest, I think his son Ernest is about my own age, the prisoner taxed him with having made so many mistakes."
Re-examined. When he taxed him with the mistakes he said "that he supposed he must have made them—he is about seventeen years of age—the children are younger, they are step-children, I believe.
HERBERT EDWARD BRADLEY . I am cashier at the National Provincial Bank, Cardiff—the debtor had a banking account'there—these'two pass-books showing his accounts were delivered to him—they accurately represent the payings in and goings out—I have brought all cheques drawn by him which have not been given up to him before—these are the cheques and bills, the total debits.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Friday, May 7th, 1875.
Before Mr. Recorder
MR. A. B. KELLY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. ST. AUBYN the Defence.
RICHARD DOWLE . I am a dealer, and live at 9, St. Ann's. Court—on Friday, 16th April, at 10.30 p.m. the prisoner came and asked me if I would purchase of him an Australian note—he' said that he had just returned from Australia, and that he was in the habit of taking them to Mr. Smart, a money changer, of Princes Street, Leicester Square, who paid him 19s. 6d. for them, and it being too late to go there he gave me the opportunity of purchasing it—I had not sufficient money, I consequently gave him 9s. 6d. and promised him the remainder next day—I went next morning to Mr. Smart and subsequently communicated with the police—the prisoner called in the evening for the balance and I gave him into custody—this (produced) is the note; it purports to-be a 1l.; note—I said that I hoped it was genuine—he held it up to the light and said "You can see that it is a good note"—I afterwards held it to the light but I saw nothing that would give me an idea that it was a bad one—I am not a judge of Australian notes—I parted with my money because he informed me that Mr. Smart gave him 19s. 6d. for the notes and I was to give him 17s. 6d., so that I should make 2s. out of the transaction.
Cross-examined. The prisoner did not tell me to go to Mr. Smart and I should get the money—I went there next morning and Mr. Smart ran his pen across the note—I believe the prisoner came twice to my house in my absence, and the third time I was there and had the constable waiting.
EDMUND SMART . I am a money changer at 60, Princes Street, Leicester Square—the prisoner was not in the habit of changing notes at my shop—I never remember having seen him till I saw him at Marlborough Street—this note was offered to me by Mr. Dowle to be cashed; I saw it was a forgery; that it was not legal money—the Royal Bank is no longer in existence, besides 1 saw it had never been issued by the bank; I can say that from my knowledge of bank notes of the whole world, and I drew my pen across it immediately to prevent any person being taken in.
Cross-examined. I am in a large way of business—I have an assistant
who has been with me five years—I trust him to change money when I am not there.
Re-examined. If he changed Australian notes in my absence, they would be deposited in the shop, where I should see them.
JOHN CONNELL . I am a Parliamentary agent—I was a director of the Royal Bank; it was wound up about twenty-two years ago—I believe this note is a genuine note; it was printed for the bank, and taken out to Australia by two directors who went out to found the bank, but it was never issued—this professes to be signed by H. C. Joyce, a director; there never was a director of that name; it is also signed.W. G. Wilson, manager, and I never heard of such a manager, and it is evident that all the signatures are of a recent date.
Cross-examined. The bank was in existence eight or ten years; it stopped about 1854 or 1855; it was founded in London—the note itself is genuine—they were taken out in blank to Australia by two directors who are both dead—they were never issued—I knew all the directors; there were nine it—I have never heard of M. Morse, who is mentioned there—he was not the accountant here—he might have been out there—I never heard of W. G. Wilson—he certainly was not manager here, and I never heard of him being manager in Australia.
PHILIP SHRIVES (Detective Officer C). I haveknown the prisoner eight or ten years—he has never been far away from London during that time for any length of time ; not long enough to go to Australia and back.
GUILTY .— Five Years Penal Servitude .
Before Mr. common serjeant
360. SAMUEL SHACKELL (50), PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously embezzling and stealing 6l. 10s. and 6l. 6s. 3d. the monies of Frederick James Hunt, his master. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor— Six Months' Imprisonment.
MR. MILLWOOD conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD FOWLER . I am a traveller living at 23, Church Street, West Ham—the prisoner was in my employment five months ago—on Saturday night, 27th March, I went to see my aunt, Mrs. Hayes, at 44, The Grove Stratford, and from what she told me I fetched a constable—the prisoner went into my aunt's service when I discharged her—I went upstairs with the constable and searched the prisoner's box; she was present—we found a pair of steel sleeve links, a steel buckle, and she was wearing a pair of gold. earrings—I identify those; they belong to my wife—she said she did not steal them, and afterwards she said she did.
Prisoner. The sleeve links and the buckle belong to my mistress. Mrs. Hayes, and the earrings are my own.
ROBERT HARRIS (Detective Officer). On the evening of 27th March I was called to 44, The Grove, Stratford—the prisoner was given into my custody—I went upstairs with the girl and Mr. Fowler—I found the buckle and links in her box she had the earrings in her ears—the prisoner ";.; attempted to run downstairs, but I fetched her back, and afterwards took her to the station—she-denied stealing them.
The Prisoner in her defence stated that the earrings were her own, and the other things belonged to her mistress and not to Mr. Fowler, who had given her into custody out of spite.
NOT GUILTY .
There was another indictment against the prisoner, upon which no evidence was offered.
KENT CASES. Before, Mr. Baron Cleasby.
In this case, upon the evidence of Mr. John Rowland Gibson, surgeon of Newgate, the Jury found the prisoner to be of unsound mind and unable to plead . Ordered to be detained until Her Majesty's pleasure be known.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. DALTON conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS the Defence.
HENRIETTA Cornish. I am a widow, and landlady of Grove Cottage, Cooper's Arms Lane, Putney—on the night of 11th April, about 9 o'clock I locked up the cellar door, which opens into the front-garden near the roadway and brought the key in doors—the cellar is contained in the same walls as the house—there is a garden gate which leads into the road—I bolted that and everything was safe at 9 o'clock.
Cross-examined. I was present when the door was fastened up by my servant—she is not here—there Were two 18 gallon casks of ale and some empty wine bottles in the cellar the door is fastened by a lock—it is an old house.
ALEXANDER PRINGLE . I lodge at Grove Cottage and am a tutor—on 11th April, about 12 p.m., I heard a whistle in the street and a sound immediately afterwards—I went out into the Street—I could see-nothing and came into the garden again, and then I heard a sound from the cellar—I found the door was open and I knew from that there was some one in it—I went for my friend—he came down and we held the door till the police came—Barton who was one of the men, surrendered to the police—the other man rushed out as soon as the door was open—Mr. Spedding seized him, but he managed to escape—I could not recognise that man.
Cross-examined. Nothing was taken from the cellar that I am aware of—we held the door and kept them inside.
BENJAMIN JOSEPH SPEDDING . I live at 90, Harleyford Road, Kennington and am a commercial traveller—on the night of 11th April I was stopping at Grove Cottage, Putney—I was called by Mr. Pringle and saw a light under the bottom of the cellar door and heard noises inside—we held the door till a policeman came—I let go the door—it was dark, and I could just see a man with a black coat and trousers—I held him on the ground by the throat, but he got away—the policeman afterwards found him and I identified him at the station among four—I can't swear to his face, but I can from other evidences, because I picked him out—I said at the Police Court if he was the man they would find some manure and straw on his back where I had him on the ground—the ground was covered with straw manure where I wrestled with him—I can't tell you how I recognised him, but Ipicked him out.
FREDERICK—(Policeman V 303.) I heard cries of "Police! "from Grove Cottage—I went there and found the two witnesses holding the cellar door—immediately I arrived two men rushed out—I secured Barton—he said "I will go quietly with you"—his hand was cut very badly indeed—the two witnesses chased the other man—I could not swear to him—I went back to the cellar and fonud the lock lying on the floor, about two yards inside the door, and a strange key by its side—I found a box of matches in the garden where the other man ran across—the garden gate was closed but not fastened.
Cross-examined. The lock seemed as if it had been forced off or fallen off.
JOHN LINGRIDGE (Police Sergeant V 14). I went to Alpha Cottage, Putney about 2 o'clock on. the morning of the 12th, where I saw Hutchins—charged him with being concerned with another man in custody in committing a burglary—he said "I know all about it, don't flurry me"—I found this hat in the garden of Grove Cottage—Hutchins said it was his and he had lost it in the garden in the scuffle.
Cross-examined. I heard him say at the Police Court "The door was open when we went in"—he said they pushed against the door and that was the cause of the lock falling off.
WILLIAM' GILES RANDALL (Policeman V 93). I went with the sergeant to apprehend Hutchins—his trousers and coat had soil on them and were slightly torn—on the way to the station he asked me not to hold him so tight—I said "I shall, you got away from two the other night"—he said "Yes, after they were on the top of me"—Barton said he was pushed in the gate—I said "By whom"—he said "By Harry"—I had seen the two prisoners together in High Street on the evening the cellar was broken into.
Cross-examined. I did not say before, that Barton said "I have done nothing, I only pushed the other man in."
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. DOUGLAS conducted the Prosecution.
JOB ALLEN . I am a bootmaker at 179, Newington Butts—on 25th April, about 12.15, I was closing the back door leading to the yard—I heard a i' noise, in consequence of which I called the servant, and went downstairs
with a light to the wash-house in the basement—there was a chimney facing the door, and I saw the feet of a man half way up it; I could not see his head—I went to the front of the house for a policeman, who came and waited till I went to the station to get some more help—we then found the man had moved from the chimney, and subsequently I found him in a cup-board underneath the dresser in the front part of the house—the sergeant pulled him out and asked him what he was doing there—the prisoner was the man—he had worked at my house about sis weeks before—he could not have come in at the front door or I should have seen him—there are two doors, an outer one and the door of the house—I don't know whether the outer door was open or shut, but the. inner door was fastened about 11.30 with a chain—I found the chain down about 11.45, but I did not think much of it then, it came into my mind when I heard the noise downstairs.
Cross-examined by the Prisoner. You were in a cupboard into which there was hardly room for you to get—I did not see any one strike you as you came out—you said "Don't let them hit me, Mr. Allen"—you were engaged in a contract for me which you neglected to complete—I have paid 25s. over the price agreed upon, and now the work is not finished—I did not threaten you.
By the Court. He had taken away the fronts of some drawers and he told me he could not finish the work without I let him have some more money; he said he wanted 3s—I said I did not believe he meant to finish and he said "I will write you an agreement) and if I don't, you can take me up for obtaining money under false pretences—after that I sent word to him that I should take him up if he did not come and do the work—I found it was no use, and two days after I sent to where he lived and asked him to let me have the fronts done or undone, and his wife sent them back undone.
WILLIAM CHAMBERLAIN (Detective Officer L). About 12.30 on the morning of the 25th, I went to Mr. Allen's house and found the prisoner in the cupboard with some pans and kottles—he jumped out; and kicked me on the ankle—on the way to the station he said "I went after' my tools"—he afterwards said that he went after some drawers that he had left unfinished—I examined the wall in the morning and found a nail had been driven in about 5 feet up the wall so that a person could get over—it is about 10 feet high.
JAMES FLANNAGAN (Policeman L 81); When the prisoner was in the dock at the station he said Mr. Allen had done him out of 7l., and that he meant to have it out of him by some means—he said "I went in after the servant girl, followed her in." Job Allen (re-called). The chain is inside the house—I find it can be taken down by putting the hand round, as it is not put back far enough, and it is an old one.
The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate: "I went through the two doors, and the door was open; I went after three heads of drawers that I had to finish."
The Prisoner in his defence stated that he did not go into the house with the intention of stealing, but that he went to get the three heads of, drawers, without the prosecutor's knowledge, so that he could finish them.
GUILTY of entering the house with intent to steal.
He further PLEADED GUILTY * to having been before convicted in June, 1871— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. BRINDLEY conducted the Prosecution.
LOUISA ENNIS . I am servant to Dr. Pearce, St. George's Square, Belgravia—about 7.30 on 20th April, the prisoner came to the house with a wooden box, such as packets of washing powder are sold in—he said "A box for Dr. Pearce"—I said "Yes"—he said "2s. to pay please," and he handed me this consignment paper—I said "Is it necessary to have this signed"—he said "No," and I paid him the 2s. and took in the box—there was a label on the box lid—I did not see Dr. Pearce open it, but he gave information—I went to Southwark Police Court last Friday, and saw a number of men there, and identified the prisoner—he is the man to whom I paid the money.
EMMA AVERY . I am servant to Mrs. Kenward in Clapham Road—on 27th April, about 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner brought a box to the house; he gave me a consignment paper with it—he said the box was for Madame Kenward—I said there was no Madame Kenward; it was Mrs. Kenward—he said "I think you will find it all right"—he asked me for half a crown, which I gave him, and he left the box—this (produced) was the label on the box—it contained a stone and some hay, straw, and paper—I identified the prisoner at the Police Court. Alice Powell. I am the wife of Frederick Powell, provision merchant, 98, York Road—about 1 p.m. on the 28th April the prisoner knocked at the door—I was called to the door—he said "I have brought you a box from the Great Western Railway, for which you will have to pay me half a crown"—he handed me this consignment note—I asked him to let me look at the box, but he at first refused; afterwards he let me look at a part of it—I had my suspicions, and refused to give him the money unless he gave me the box in my hand, and he ultimately gave it me—he wished to have the half-crown before he gave me the box—I preferred seeing the box—I asked the prisoner to wait till I got change for half a sovereign—I took it into the parlour to my father and broke it open; it contained a brick very carefully wrapped in brown paper, and the box was tied very well and tightly—I asked the prisoner to come inside while I went for change for half a sovereign, and I went for a constable—I saw a man outside whom I believe I have seen before.
GEORGE LACKINGS (Policeman X 228). I took the prisoner into custody, and received the box (produced) from the last witness—I told the prisoner the charge, and he said that a man gave him the box at the top of Stain-ford Street, and he was to receive half a crown, and return with the half-crown to give to the man who gave him the box.
WILLIAM THOMAS MASON . I am superintendent of the Great Western Railway Company's police—this consignment note is one. of the Company's forms, but is not filled up by them; it is no authority to receive money; it is for forwarding goods—the box produced has not been forwarded by the Company—there is no Company's label on it, and it would have been sent by van.
The Prisoner in his defence stated that the box was given to him by a man to take to the house, for which he was to have 2d. for himself and he did so, but had no idea what it contained.
GUILTY — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.
MR. MEAD for the Prosecution offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
368. JOSIAH BUTTIFANT (56), (whose case was removed from Norfolk) PLEADED GUILTY , before Mr. Justice Archibald, to embezzling 78l. and other sums received by him on account of Frederick Brown and others. He was then tried and convicted of forging and uttering a warrant for 34l. 11s. 4d .— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude, and to pay the costs of the Prosecution.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, JUNE 7TH, 1875.