Old Bailey Proceedings, 6th May 1872.
Reference Number: t18720506
Reference Number: f18720506


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court,












On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, May 6th, 1872, and following days,

BEFORE THE RIGHT HON. SIR SILLS JOHN GIBBONS, BART., LORD MAYOR of the City of London; SIR GEORGE WILSHIRE BRAMWELL, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; SIR JOHN BARNARD BYLES , Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; THOMAS QUESTED FINNIS, Esq., WILLIAM LAWRENCE , Esq., M.P., WILLIAM FERNELEY ALLEN, Esq., ROBERT BESLEY , Esq., ANDREW LUSK , Esq., M.P., and THOMAS SCRAMBLER OWDEN, Esq., Aldermen of the said City; Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS , Knt., Q.C., M.P., Common Serjeant of the said City (acting as Deputy-Recorder); and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR , Esq., LL. D., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two start (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, May 6th, and Tuesday, May 7th, 1872.

Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-381

381. ALFRED BOWER BLENKARN (25), was indicted for embezzling two sums of 40l. 2s. and 46l. 10s., which he had received on account of Robert Kinder Mann and another, his masters; also for stealing 110 pieces of shepherd's check their property.

MR. F.H. LEWIS, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


Reference Number: t18720506-382

382. GEORGE ERRINGTON (36) , PLEADED GUILTY to embezzling 6l. 14s. of Thomas Blake, his master—Strongly Recommended to mercy by prosecutorTo enter into his own recognizances in 150l. to appear to receive judgment when called upon.

Reference Number: t18720506-383

383. CHARLES SMITH (34) , to embezzling 5l. 17s. 8d. of Mr. Henry Bonnewell, his master— [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] Recommended to mercy by prosecutorFour Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-384

384. HENRY FISCHER (29) , to feloniously forging and uttering a request for the payment of 63l. with intent to defraud— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18720506-385

385. GEORGE LUDLOW (17), to stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a post letter, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18720506-386

386. DAVID PINDER(27) , to a like offence— Five Years Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18720506-387

387. CHARLES MILLS (29) , to embezzling 15s., 4d. of James Hudson and another.— Six Weeks' Imprisonment [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

Reference Number: t18720506-388

388. CHARLES THOMAS TOLLEY , and HARRIET ELIZABETH McRAE , to a libel upon Albion James Tolley, and his wife— To enter into recognizances to appear and receive judgment when called upon. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

For other cases tried these days, see Essex, Kent, and Surrey Cases.

NEW COURT.—Monday, May 6th, 1872.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-389

389. JAMES HICKEY (28) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

ELLEN WELLS . I am barmaid at the King's Arms, Great College Street, Westminster—on 5th April, the prisoner and four or five other men and women came in for some half-and-half, they all drank out of the same pot,

and then two of them had a pint of cooper in another pot—the half-and-half came to 4d., the prisoner gave me 6d. and I gave him 2d.—he then called for two of gin cold and put down a half-crown—he was in conversation with me and I did not notice it, but put it into the till and gave him a florin and fourpence—I then went to my tea and left him in the bar—there was no other half-crown in the till—when I returned he was in another compartment, which is a dark passage—I served him there with a glass of ale and he put down a half-crown, I tried it, found it was bad and gave it to him back—he picked it up, put it in his pocket and gave me two penny pieces—I then went to the till and found that the other half-crown was bad; there was nothing else there but shillings and sixpences—I then asked him for the half-crown he had put in his pocket—he said he did not know what I meant—he had not taken anything up at all—I said that if he did not give it up I would send for a policeman—he then threw down a florin—I asked him for another sixpence and he rushed to the door—the potman stopped him and I gave him in charge—the barmaid said in his hearing "He gave me a half-crown while you were at tea" giving it to me—I saw him searched at the station, two bad half-crowns were found on him and he had the one in his hand which I had given him—I knew it by where I bit it.

Prisoner. Q. Did the others remain in the bar? A. Till the half-and-half was drank, and then they went out and left you alone—I did not receive a half-crown from them, it was sixpence—the good half-crown you offered me was a George III.—I told the Magistrate I knew it by biting it, and by it being smooth—I did not say "Here is another one, I will make you a present of this."

Re-examined. I keep a separate till to the other barmaid.

CAROLINE ANN LEWIS . I am barmaid at the King's Arms—after the last witness left I remained in the bar, and the prisoner asked me for two of gin cold—he gave me a half-crown—I put it in the till, and gave him 2s. 4d. change—that was not the same till which the last witness used—there were no other half-crowns there, the till had just been cleared, and there were only shillings and sixpences there—I mentioned it to the last witness when she came back, and gave her the half-crown—it was found to be bad.

JOHN LUXTON VENNER . I am a cheesemonger—I was present when Ellen Wells served the prisoner—she took the half-crown of him, and as she went to the till she said that it was bad, and gave it back to him, and he put down 2d. and then she went to the till again and looked, and said "This is a bad one which you gave me before," and he gave her a florin back—she said "If you don't give me the right change I will give you in charge; catch hold of him, Mr. Venner!" and I caught hold of him—he said "Let me go"—I said "Not yet; you have not paid for what you have had"—he said to the barmaid "Take the 6d. out, and that will make us right for the other half-crown"—he was then given in charge.

Prisoner. Q. Are you positive she gave me change out of the till? A. Yes; you gave her the shilling after the prosecutor came—you did not make much attempt to escape, for I had you pretty tight—I did not see you in the other bar.

SAMUEL PARNELL . I am potman at the King's Arms—I helped to detain the prisoner, and found these two half-crowns on the floor where he had been standing five or six minutes after he had gone—I ran after the policeman and handed them to him—I afterwards marked a "P" on each, by which I recognise them—one is whole and one broken.

SAMUEL CAUSLY (Policeman A 386). I took the prisoner and searched him at the station—I found these two bad half-crowns in the breast pocket of his under-coat, one is a George III. and one a Victoria—the potman gave me these three half-crowns (produced)—I thought one of them was good, but broke it in trying it—I produce another half-crown, which Ellen Wells gave me—I found on the prisoner 5s. 4d., of which 10d. was in bronze—four of the half-crowns are of George III. and one of Victoria.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These five half-crowns are bad, and four of them are from one mould.

Prisoner's Defence. I put down a Victoria half-crown, and the barmaid said "This is another bad half-crown, take it and be off about your business". I put it in my pocket and gave her the change. As to the other barmaid, I never had anything of her at all; she said first that it was a Victoria half-crown, and now she says that it was not. A man that passes bad money would not be so foolish as to go in with a lot of bad half-crowns. Being vexed at finding she had another bad one in the till she says that I gave it to her, not wishing her master and mistress to know it. There were plenty of people in the house, and it is very hard to put it upon me.

GUILTY .— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-390

390. WILLIAM BROWN (38), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

ANN SMITH . I am barmaid at the Commercial Tavern, Shoreditch—on 14th April I served the prisoner with a pint of beer, which came to 2d—he gave me a shilling.—I broke it in the detector and gave the pieces to the housekeeper, who went over to him and said "This is a bad shilling"—he said "I am not aware of it"—she said "You can see it is a bad one"—he brought out two or three shillings' worth of silver and copper, and gave her copper—he then said "I will have another pint," and he paid for that with good money—two detectives then came in.

JOHN BURROUGHS (Policeman H R 35). On 14th April, I was called to the Commercial Tavern by the potboy, and the prisoner was given into my charge with this shilling (produced)—he said that he did not know it was bad, and they did not charge him.

JANE POTTER . My husband keeps the Royal Randan, Bethnal Green—on 20th April I served the prisoner with a glass of ale which came to 2d.—he put down a half crown—I saw that it was bad, and gave it to my husband, who broke it and gave the prisoner in custody.

REUBEN POTTER . My wife gave me a bad half-crown on 20th April—I broke it and asked him if he knew what it was; he said "A half-crown, I believe, I hope you are not going to say it is a bad one"—I said "It is," and went out for a constable, and gave the pieces to him.

MICHAEL MILLS (Policeman K 274). I took the prisoner and told him the charge—he said he was not aware it was bad, and he hoped they would not give him into custody—I searched him, and found three halfpence on him—Mr. Potter gave me these pieces of a half-crown (produced).

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These pieces of a shilling and a half-crown are bad.

The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate: "It was my misfortune to get that piece of money. I have no idea where I got the half-crown. I am an innocent man.

Prisoner's Defence. I got the half-crown and shilling in payment for a day's work, 3s. 6d., at Hay's Wharf, Minories. It was an old worn half-crown,

and I thought bad money had a new appearance. I am quite innocent, and am suffering for other people's misdeeds. All that the witnesses have said is perfectly true.


Reference Number: t18720506-391

391. ELIZABETH SMITH (46), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR GRIFFIN . I am one of the firm of Newland, Griffin & Co., wine merchants, of High Street, Shoreditch—the prisoner has been in the habit of coming there—she came at the end of last year for 1½d. worth of gin, and gave me a bad sixpence—I broke it, told her it was bad, and she paid me with good silver—I threw the sixpence away—she came again about a month afterwards, and again two months after that, and offered me a bad sixpence—I told her it was bad, and that she was in the habit of passing bad money, and if she did it again I should give her in charge—about three weeks afterwards she. came again for 1 1/2d. worth of gin, and tendered a bad sixpence—she said she did not know it was bad—on every occasion she paid me with good money after the bad was found out—she came the fourth time on 19th April, for 1 1/2d. worth of gin, and gave me a bad sixpence, I broke it, and sent for a constable, and gave the prisoner in custody with the sixpence—it was very soft—she said that she had not been there before.

Prisoner. You are mistaken, I was never there before, I was travelling in the country at the time.

Witness. I am not mistaken.

ARTHUR AKERS . I am barman at the Unicorn public-house, Shoreditch—on 13th April I served the prisoner with 1 1/2d. worth of gin, she gave me a bad shilling—I told her it was bad before I took it up—she said that she got it in change for a half-sovereign, and if I broke it she would have no more money—I broke it in three pieces, and she left without drinking the gin. Prisoner. I never gave you a bad shilling, you are swearing false.

WILLIAM WATLING (Policeman GR 10). Mr. Griffin gave the prisoner into my charge with the sixpence, and told me in her presence that she had been there on three previous occasions—she said nothing—she was searched at the station, and two good sixpences and 3s. 9 1/2d. in copper found on her, but one of the sixpences was given her in change for the shilling which she gave in lieu of the bad sixpence.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a bad sixpence.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not know the sixpence was bad.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-392

392. JAMES BROWN (28), was indicted for a like offence.

MR. CRAUFURD conducted the Prosecution.

ALFRED BARKER . I keep the Norfolk Anns, Essex Road—on 20th April, about 11 o'clock at night, my barmaid, Eliza Ely, served the prisoner with some gin and water, which came to 2 1/2d.—he threw down a half-crown—she brought it to me, and I found it was bad—he gave me a good sixpence, and I gave him back the half-crown—the prisoner afterwards; showed it to me again.

EDWARD MEDHURST (Policeman N 189). On 20th April I watched the prisoner, and saw him go into the Norfolk Arms—I waited at the door in consequence of what the barman said—the prisoner came out about five minutes afterwards, and I followed him 100 or 150 yards, stopped

him, and asked him what was the matter—he said "I know what you want me for, the bad half-crown"—he took out his purse and took a bad half-crown out of it—he refused to let me search him—I took him to the station—he gave his name, Michael Cawley, and the inspector allowed him to go.

HENRY LEWIS . I am a tobacconist—the prisoner came to my shop in April for a 1/2 oz. of shag, which came to 1 1/2d.—he threw down a half-crown in a very peculiar way; it made a chink as if it was good silver—I looked at it, and he said "Don't you like that? I will give you other money," and tendered a good shilling—I said "I shall not change your money," and gave him in charge with the half-crown.

ROBERT ANSCOMB (Detective). I took the prisoner—he said he received the half-crown in change for a sovereign at a public-house near the London Docks—I searched him at the station, and found two good shillings and a good sixpence—this is the half-crown.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown is bad.

Prisoner's Defence. I had not the slightest idea they were counterfeit. I received one in change, and the other I got coming out of the hospital.

GUILTY .**— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-393

393. JOHN MARTIN (29), was indicted for feloniously uttering counterfeit coin, after a previous conviction of a like offence, to which he


Reference Number: t18720506-394

394. JOHN MARTIN was again indicted with CAROLINE JOHNSON (21), and ELLEN WILLIAMS.(19) , for unlawfully having counterfeit coin in their possession, with intent to utter it.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and COLERIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JOSEPH MILLWARD . I am a licensed shoeblack—on 12th April, about 6 p.m., I saw the three prisoners and another man outside Green's public-house—Brown, the prisoner just tried, went in, and I saw him give Green a shilling, who gave it back to him, and he left—I followed him, and saw him join these three prisoners—they went away together towards Mr. King's—I then missed the other man, and fetched a constable to 10, Colling wood Street—Mr. Green had hold of the women at that time—they were standing with their backs against the railings of 10, Westmoreland Place.

FREDERICK GREEN . I keep the Napoleon beer-shop, Shepherdess Walk—on 12th April Brown came in, and I served him with a glass of ale—he gave me a bad shilling—I broke it, and returned it to him—he asked me for a piece of paper to wrap the pieces in, and gave me a penny—Millward came in, and I gave him directions—he went out, and I followed him, and saw the three prisoners cross the road and join the man who had left my house—they went on to Eagle Street, and down Shepherdess Walk—I next saw the woman standing outside 8, Westmoreland Place—I spoke to Mr. King, who was outside his house, and then took hold of the women—one of them said she knew nothing about the man who had passed the bad money—I had said nothing previously—I gave them in charge—they said they did not know the man—I had seen the whole four together before the man came in to my house.

Johnson. You are speaking false; you never saw me with this man at all.

JOHN KING . I keep the Westmoreland Arms—on 12th April, about

6.30, I served Martin with a glass of ale—he gave me a half-crown—I told him it was bad, and said "I shall want your name and address before you go away; if you do not leave it I shall give you in charge"—he said "I have got some good money; I will give you that"—I sent for a policeman—the prisoner said he would go for one himself, and was trying to edge towards the door—I said to Baker "Look out, Baker, he will be out at the door"—he had one hand in his breast pocket—he pulled it out, knocked Baker back, pulled one door open, and ran down the street—I said "After him, Baker, and lock him up"—after I had been out and come back I saw the two female prisoners with Green—I afterwards saw ten or twelve round bits of blue paper, screwed up, down the area of 8, Westmoreland Place—I marked the half-crown.

AMOS BAKER . I went after Martin—he ran hard enough to burst the door open at 10, Collingwood Street—I ran after him about 120 yards—he ran into a house, and closed the door—I waited till a constable came, went in with him, and found Martin inside the house.

AMY MARIA HAND . I live with my mother, at 8, Westmoreland Place—on 12th April, I was going into the kitchen, heard a noise, looked up, and saw Green scuffling with these two women—I heard a chink, and saw one of the women's hands behind her, and throw the blue paper packets—I went up to the door, and saw Green take the women away.

ELIZA HAND . I am the mother of the last witness—I was in the kitchen with her, and heard a noise—I went into the front kitchen, and saw the pieces of blue paper in the area, but I did not see them drop—I went up to the front door, and saw Green take the women—I unlocked the area door, and saw Bloomfield pick up the blue papers—no one had been in the area in the meantime.

ALEXANDER BLOOMFIELD (Detective Officer N). I received information, went to Mrs. Hand's area about 7 o'clock, she unlocked the door, and I found ten half-crowns and five shillings wrapped up in fifteen packets, all separate—I have seen the half-crown which Martin tendered to King—it ears the same date as the half-crowns produced.

EDWARD COWLAND (Policeman N 83). I took Martin out of the house, and as soon as I got out I saw Green holding the two females—he gave them into my custody for being concerned with Martin—I received a half-crown from King, which I marked—I searched Martin, and found 3s. 6d. in good silver, and a penny on him—the prisoners said that they did not know each other—7d. in copper was found on Williams, and on Johnson 18d. in copper.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half-crown not in paper is bad—here are ten others, all bad, and from the same mould as the one passed—the shillings are all bad.

Martin's Defence. I met Brown, and we met these two females, who we were entirely ignorant of. Brown changed a shilling, which turned out to be bad. I put the half-crown down, which I should not have done if I had not been drunk.

Johnson's Defence.—I am innocent I do not know who threw it down. I believe it was Brown.


MARTIN.— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

JOHNSON and WILLIAMS.— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-395

395. JOHN HAYDEN (42) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CRAUFURD and COLERIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE SMART . I keep the Grapes at Houndsditch—on 10th February, I saw my barmaid serve the prisoner—she has left me since—I saw the prisoner put down a shilling, which she passed to me—I found it was bad, and gave the prisoner in charge with the shilling.

WILLIAM CLOAK (Police Sergeant). The prisoner was given into my charge—he said on the way to the station that he had sold his boots for a half-crown, and received the shilling in payment—he said that he had been drinking all day, and what would not a man do when he was in liquor—he was taken to the Police Court, remanded, and discharged—he was very violent at the station, and tore up his trowsers and boots—I was obliged to get him another suit.

JOHN CUNNINGHAM . I keep a general shop, at 16, Berkeley Street—on 2nd April, my wife served the prisoner with 1d. worth of tobacco, and I saw him put down a medal in the shape of a sixpence—I took it up and said "What have you got here?"—he said "You don't take me for one of those sort of fellows who get my living in that way; I have just taken it for a pot of beer"—I went with him, he put his head in at one house and said "This is not the house"—we went in, and he got some children between him and me. and then ran away—I ran after him and took him, and gave the coin to the inspector.

HENRY JACKSON (Policeman). I received the prisoner in charge from the last witness—he said he must have received the sixpence at a public-house, for he had been drinking all day—I took him to the station—two halfpence were found on him.

Prisoner. Q. What state was I in? A. You pretended to be drunk, but you could walk as well as me—I told the Magistrate you were drunk.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are two medals made to represent a shilling and a sixpence; they are brass, silvered over.

Prisoner's Defence. I sold a pair of boots for a half crown, and got these in change. I had been drinking. I always thought bad money would bend. I was honourably discharged by the Alderman at Guildhall, and then I came across this sixpence.

GUILTY* Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-396

396. EDWARD WELSH (23) . Breaking and entering a certain church and stealing therein one communion cloth, two hoods, and other articles, of John Henry Cardwell.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HASKETT . On 28th April, about 3.30 a.m., I was in Star Road, Fulham—I heard a noise at the church as if of the breaking of glass—I ran up as near as I could without being seen—I heard the noise again, and saw a dark object moving at the church window—I saw it go away towards a fence—I went there and came up to the prisoner, who was behind the fence—I said "Halloa! I have you"—he said "Stop till I have done up my trowsers"—I said "Is there anybody with you?"—he said "So help me God there is not"—at the place where he was stooping I found this communion cloth, three stoles, and two hoods—I asked him which way he got in—he said "Find out"—I took him to the station, returned with Sergeant Brooker, and found the church window smashed, 2 ft 8 in. high, and the glass driven inside, and there was room for a man to get in.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you whistle and call a civilian from the road? A. Yes;

I do not think he is here—you used no violence—you were twenty or thirty yards from where I found the plunder—you were stooping down as if to conceal yourself—your trowsers were not down.

REV. JOHN HENRY CARDWELL . I am Minister of St. Andrew's Church, Fulham—these things are my property—I saw them safe on Thursday evening, three days before 28th April—the robes were in the vestry, and the communion cloth was wrapped up on the table—they were worth about 9l.

WILLIAM BROOKER (Detective Officer). I went to the church and found the window broken and the church in a regular upset—the books from the communion table had been taken down to the door, and the cloth was gone—I went to the prisoner's cell and saw "Teddy"—he said "Well, Mr. Brooker, I suppose I shall go now"—I produced to him this piece of paper, which I found in a book in the church—he said that he wrote it, and took the ink and inkstand down to the door, and sat on a seat to do it—on the paper is written "It is very strange that you would not leave the money, good night"—he also said that he broke the window with a half brick and got in, and that he got out the same way.

Prisoner. Why don't you speak the truth, and not tell a confounded lot of lies? A. I have spoken the truth. I did not ask you where you got the piece of paper from—you did not say "What have I to do with the paper? perhaps you wrote it yourself."

COURT. Q. How would he have light to write it? A. A lamp outside shines in full on the seats.

REV. J. H. CARDWELL (re-examined). The word "sacrament" written in pencil on this paper is my writing.

Prisoner's Defence. I have been working in Staffordshire ever since I had eighteen months from this Court—I was too late to go home, and thought I would lay in the straw rick and sleep a few hours, and before I went there I went behind the fence, and the constable ran and took me—I am sure they did not see me lurking about the place, for I was not there.

GUILTY . He was further charged with a previous conviction of burglary, at this Court, in June 1870, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**†— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-397

397. JOHN CASEY (20), Unlawfully wounding John McIntosh.

MR. MILLWARD conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS

the Defence.

WILLIAM MCINTOSH . I am a type founder—on Saturday night, 23rd March, I was in a public-house in Long Lane with Cockrane, and saw the prisoner there—we were drinking together—I was drunk—I tossed with the prisoner for two pints of beer and won, but he would not pay and I knocked him down—he got up again, made a butt at me and missed me—we had a fight—the prisoner being drunk hit my friend, and his hat fell off—I went to pick it up and was stabbed, but by whom I do not know—two or three people took me to St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I remained there some time.

Cross-examined. I was drunk, and so was Cockrane—we were in the public-house from 8 o'clock at night till 11.40—I have received 3l. compensation—not from the prisoner's friends, from a stranger.

JOHN COCKRANE . I am a stoker, of Corporation Buildings, Farringdon Road—on 25th March I was in a public-house in Long Lane, and saw the prisoner there—he and McIntosh tossed for a pot of beer—the prisoner lost—a fight ensued, and they got turned out—I went out the prisoner

started upon me, and he and I had a fight across the road, and I knocked him down three times—the people round me halloaed out that he had a knife, and then McIntosh jumped on one side after I fell down from the force of hitting the prisoner—I did not see the knife—McIntosh stooped to pick up my cap, and he said "I am stabbed, take me to the hospital," and from there he was taken to the Smithfield police-station, where we gave our evidence, and he was taken back to the hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to the father and make a claim against the son for having damaged your clothes? A. No; but the father gave me a sovereign for the recompense to my clothes.

JOHN WILLCOTT . I am a stationer, employed at Messrs. Bishop's, Little Britain—on Saturday night, 23rd March, I was in Long Lane, and saw the prisoner fighting with Cockrane—the prisoner said "Which is the one?" and he had a struggle with him, and Cockrane knocked him down every time he came up—the prisoner then sparred up to him, and I saw him with a knife in his hand, with which he stabbed the man in the thigh—I did not see him do it, because there were two or three using knives.

WILLIAM VENNESS (City Policeman). On Saturday night, or early on Sunday morning, I heard a row in Long Lane, and found McIntosh bleeding from the thigh—he pointed out the prisoner, who was struggling to get away from four or five persons—I pinned him against the wall, and Willcott put this knife into my hand, and said in his presence "This is the knife"—I heard him ask his wife for a knife—she said "Don't take the knife"—he said "Yes, give me the knife," and he took it and ran across and asked who it was, and when his hat was knocked off he ran and stabbed him—I never let go of his hand.

WILLIAM JOHNSON WALSHAM —I am house surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I examined the prisoner—he had a punctured wound, which might have been caused by this knife.

Cross-examined. It might have been caused by any other knife.

The Prisoner received a good character.


NEW COURT.—Tuesday, May 7th, 1872.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-398

398. JOHN WILLIAM PARKER (30) , Stealing a post letter containing 210 stamps, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

MESSERS. METCALFE and SLADE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. F. H.

LEWIS the Defence.

JOHN GARDNER . I am travelling clerk in the Missing Letter Department of the General Post Office—the prisoner was a sorter at the Eastern District Office—on 13th April, I made up a letter, and enclosed in it 210 penny postage stamps, addressed "To the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide, Crane Court"—I put them in an envelope with an adhesive seal, and handed it to Mr. Stephens with instructions to post—shortly after 1 o'clock, the prisoner was brought to my private room, and I said to him "A letter addressed to the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide is missing, do you know anything about it?"—he said "No"—Rumbold then searched him, but found nothing on him—he was asked if he had another coat—he said "Yes, down stairs"—Mr. Haynes, who was present, went down and fetched the coat, and asked the prisoner if it was his—he said "Yes"—Rumbold took a number of postage stamps from the pocket—the prisoner made a rush

at them, but Rumbold interfered—I identified the stamps, and said to the prisoner "Those stamps were enclosed in a letter addressed to the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide, where did you get them from?"—he said, "I don't know nothing about them"—he was given in custody—the stamps are marked—here are 210 of them.

Cross-examined. The prisoner was spoken to in the postmaster's private room—he had been called from the sorting office—I asked him if he had a cupboard—he said "Yes"—I don't remember his telling me that the key was in the cupboard—he described to me what kind of coat his was, and on what peg it was hanging—he gave me every assistance—when the coat was brought up he was asked if it was his, and when the stamps were taken out he used some such expression as "Good God, what are they, I know nothing about them."

CHARLES JAMES STEVENS . I am an overseer of letter carriers—on 13th April Mr. Gardner gave me a letter to post, addressed "To the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide" and I posted it about 12.40 at the Eastern District office—I then jumped into a cab and searched the Eastern District office letter bag, and the letter was not there.

CHARLES HAYNES . I am inspector of letter carriers at the Eastern District office—on 13th April, about 11.40, I took a letter out of the box addressed "To the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide, 5, Crane Court, Fleet Street"—I had received instructions—I stamped it, sorted it to the W. C. district, and saw it taken by the prisoner to his desk—it was his duty to turn it out as a mis-sort, and pass it on to the E. C. district—he was the sorter to the W. C. district, and Billett was making up the E. C. bag—there was a box for mis-sorts on the right side of each—it was the prisoner's duty to put it into the box, but they do not always do that, they merely pass it over—I was present when Mr. Gardner questioned the prisoner in the postmaster's room, and heard him asked whether he had a coat—I went down and fetched it—I found it on the third peg in the kitchen, where the prisoner told me, and took it up stairs, handed it to the officer, and saw the pockets emptied and a bundle of stamps found.

Cross-examined. About six coats were hanging up in the kitchen on the left-hand side—I did not observe the other side—it was merely hanging by the inside of the collar with the inside towards the peg in the regular way—the inside breast pocket was concealed, doubled up—over forty people were employed in the room where the prisoner was—a mis-sorted letter may sometimes be flung on the General sorting table—after the prisoner had sorted his letters for the W. C. district he would go to fetch some newspapers—he would not pass the General sorting table only at its very extreme end—he does not stand a yard from it—he could fling a letter there, but it was against his duty to do anything but put it in the mis-sort box, although the man was standing next who ought to have received it—mis-sorted letters on the General sorting table are restamped for the next hour—they are in the legal custody of the senior stamper, but he does not wait there all the time—there is nobody there to look after them.

Re-examined. The General sorting table is on one side and the Town sorting table on the other—supposing a sorter picked out a letter which was not in his district, the effect would be to postpone it for an hour—I should not put a town letter there.

MR. LEWIS. Q. When a letter is put in a mis-sort box, when is it resorted? A. At the time.

JAMES BELLETT . I am a sorter in the E. C. district office—on 13th April I was making up letters for the Central district, and the prisoner stood by my side making up letters for the W. C. district—I saw him take a rather bulky letter in his hand, feel it, and put it on a little shelf on his right side, I and while he was sorting his letters I saw that it was addressed "To the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide, 5, Crane Court, Fleet Street"—after he had sorted his letters he took that letter and took it away with him, and I saw no more of it—my attention had been called to the test letter, so that I was watching.

Cross-examined. I had five or six more letters to sort when he had finished his, which would take me a quarter of a minute—he went to the end of the office to take his newspapers, and he tied his bag and went into the street—he had to go out and dispatch the City cart and to receive a cart from the City, and check and sign way bills—the letter was in his hand all that time—he then went into the kitchen and I did not notice him any further—about two minutes after he had gone I made a communication—I did not go outside when he was removing the carts, but the letter was in his hand when he went to the table to get his newspapers.

Re-examined. After dispatching the cart he went to the kitchen where his coat was—it was about an hour after that, that I saw him called up by the inspector.

HENRY RUMBOLD . I am a constable attached to the post-office—on 13th April I was there with Mr. Gardner, who said to the prisoner "A letter is missing attached to the Editor of the Fisherman's Guide, 5, Crane Court, Fleet Street," and asked him if he knew anything about it—he said "No"—he was searched and nothing found on him—I asked him if he had another coat—he said "Yes"—it was brought up, I searched it and found a number of postage stamps and other papers, and the prisoner said "Good God, how did they come there; I did not put them there"—in the same pocket was a letter addressed "Mr. W. Porker," some memoranda, and a small book with the name of Parker in it.

Cross-examined. I asked him whether he had a cupboard—there was no concealment.

J. BELLETT (re-examined). I looked into the mis-sort box, and the letter was not there.

COURT. Q. You said you saw him take the latter away from the sorting box; how long did you see it in his hand? A. Till he got to the W. C. box—nobody else could see it, he had it so concealed under his hand—there was an attempt to conceal it.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-399

399. WILLIAM PERRY (24) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Reuben Denman, and stealing therein one coat and other articles, and 187l. in money, his property.

MESSRS. M. WILLIAMS and H. BROWN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. W SLEIGH the Defence.

REUBEN DENMAN . I am a grocer, of 141, High Street, Camden Town—on Friday evening, 12th April, I left home about 10 o'clock—my premises were then safe—I returned about 12.20 and found the shutters wrenched off both hinges, and the shop door burst open—I missed 187l. from a desk, and about 3l. in halfpence, three rings, two pins, a woollen scarf, and great coat—there was 56l. 10s. in gold, 40l. in notes, 78l. in cheques, and 2l., or 3l. worth of sixpences—I found this pawn-ticket (produced) in my bed-room

—it does not belong to me—the name of Thacker is on it—I identify this scarf because it was too long for me, and was cut in half and joined in the middle—I have cuffs to match it.

Cross-examined. Q. Who altered it? A. The person who made it for me—she sells them.

SAMUEL KINGDON (Detective Officer S). On the morning of 13th April, I searched Mr. Denman's premises, and found an entry had been made by forcing open the back parlour window—a desk was forced open—I took this pawn-ticket to the pawnbroker, Mr. Tubb, of the Caledonian Road, and found the prisoner there, redeeming several articles of wearing apparel—in consequence of information I received, I followed him to 20, Collier Street, Islington—I did not go in—I left and returned again in the evening, and he was not at home—I visited the place several times, and placed constables to watch, but he did not come—another officer took him—I afterwards searched his lodging, and found this comforter in his box, also this screw-driver, which I compared with the marks on the window, which had been forced, and it fitted exactly, and the same kind of paint is on it as is on the window sill.

Cross-examined. There is no handle to it, but there was a handle which would fit it on the premises, it also fitted this file—the screw-driver was produced three times in evidence, but the paint was plainly discernible on it at first; there is a very small portion on it now—it was in this bent state.

JAMES PURNELL . I assist Mr. Lumsden, a furniture dealer, of 36, Chapel Street—on 13th April, four persons came there—the prisoner is one of them, he came first with another young man about 5.30, they said that they would be back in half-an-hour; they were going to meet their wives, and they came back with two young women, and both made purchases to the amount of 10l. altogether—they all had gold, and the prisoner said to one of the females "You might as well give him a note to change for you"—she said "I think I have enough gold without changing"—I made them out two bills with receipt stamps, but the 6l. bill is not produced—I afterwards saw the goods at Albany Street station.

Cross-examined. I said at the Police Court that he had gold—I said that they all paid money, and that one of the women said "I think I have enough gold without changing a note, my dear"—some money had been previously paid, and afterwards they said "I think there is so and so which will suit us"—the other people bought these articles—(looking at the bill)—and the other young man and the shortest of the females paid 3l. 17s. 6d.—the bill of 6l. belonged to the prisoner—that is not produced—10l. was all that they spent.

Re-examined. The bill for 6l. was made out in the name of Perry, which was the name the prisoner gave.

JOHN WESTON (Detective Officer S). On 13th April, I went with Kingdon to 22, Collier Street—while standing at the street door, the prisoner opened it—he saw us, I believe, and immediately slammed the door in my face—I knocked, and the landlord opened it—we could not find the prisoner, though we searched the garden and to the top of the house—about 12 o'clock on Monday, I went to the house again, and while I was there, the prisoner and another man came there, the prisoner asked for the landlord—a woman said "He is out; I am the wife, what do you want?"—the prisoner said "This is my broker" producing this agreement, signed "William Perry;"

"I want you to hand over all the goods the room contains, when he is ready to fetch them"—I produce this stamped receipt "Received of Mr. J. Holmes 20l. for goods, at 22, Collier Street, Pentonville, William Perry"—I asked Holmes how he was going to give 20l. for goods without seeing them?—he said "Oh yes, to a Mend who I know"—I then told the prisoner I was a policeman, and should take him in custody for a burglary at 141, High Street, Camden Town, on the night of the 12th—he said "I know nothing about it, if you put a hand on me I will kick your b—y entrails out"—I afterwards found these two bills made out to the other parties.

JOHN HOLMES . I am a commission agent, of 2, Holly Road, Kentish Town—on the morning after 13th April, the prisoner came to my house and said that he wanted to tell his furniture as he was going into the country—he told me he was going to sell a certain number of articles, I believe they are enumerated here—I bought them, and paid him 20l. without looking at them, and I gave him sovereigns.

GEORGE GULVIN (Policeman S 207). On Friday night week, 12th April I was on duty in High Street, Camden Town, and at a few minutes past 12 o'clock I saw a short man standing outside No. 143—the prosecutor's is 141—I walked on my beat, and on returning met the prisoner and the short man whom I had seen before—I afterwards went to the police-station and picked out the prisoner from a number of others as the man I had seen that night.

Cross-examined. I have made no mistake about the time—I have not seen the other man since—they had nothing bulky with them.

SAMUIL SIMMONDS . I am the landlord of the house where the prisoner lodged—on Saturday night, after the prisoner left, a boy called, and I went to the corner of the street and saw the prisoner and another man—just before that two detectives had been there—the prisoner asked me if I knew them—I said "They were on business, why?"—he said "We thought they were detectives"—I said "Oh, what do they want you for?"—he said "We are deserters," and that if I would meet him on Sunday night at the Talbot in the Caledonian Road and give him all the information I could, he would make it all right with me—I went and he met me half-way—I wanted him to go to the Talbot, but he would not.

Cross-examined. They both spoke, but I will not swear that the prisoner used the expression that they were deserters.

ALFRED DAY . I am a pawnbroker, of 176, Copenhagen Street—the prisoner has been in the habit of pledging at my house in the name of Thacker—on the 13th April he came and redeemed articles amounting to 30s. or 35s.—he paid principally in sixpences—he said he should not have to trouble me for some time.

CHARLOTTE NELSON . This is Mr. Denman's scarf—I have been in the habit of washing it, and knew the marks on it.

Cross-examined. I keep no people to assist me.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been convicted at Clerkenwell in January, 1870.

THOMAS WARD . I was present at Clerkenwell on 3rd January, 1870, when Willoughby Lester was convicted of breaking into a dwelling-house, and sentenced totwelve months' imprisonment.

Prisoner. It was my twin brother—I am deformed in the left hand and he is not—being deformed, I couldnot do hard labour.

Witness. The man who was convicted was deformed in the left hand—I did not state at the Police Court that he had a deformed hand, I was not asked—I took him in custody, and noticed that his left little finger was rather crooked—I mean to say that the man who was convicted on the 3rd January was deformed. (The prisoner's left hand little finger was crooked).

A photograph appended to the certificate of conviction was handed to the Jury.

GUILTY**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-400

400. WILLIAM LEAT (25) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Frederick Picton, with intent to d" him grievous bodily harm.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY ARMSTRONG RAWLINGS, M. R. C. S . On 2nd April I saw Mr. Picton at the Kentish Town Station, and found a punctured wound exactly in the centre of his breast, through the nipple—it divided no vessels of importance, it only went through the gland—it was half-an-inch deep, and might have been caused by this knife (produced).

WILLIAM SHERWIN . I live at 3, Wellesley Road, Kentish Town—on 2nd April, about 7.30, I had just come from the factory and went into the George IV., Kentish Town—I heard words between the prisoner and the prosecutor, and the prisoner pulled out a knife and made a stab at the prosecutor, but I did not see the wound—I threw the prisoner down and took this knife out of his hand—I do not think he was sober—he told me he had been asleep.

FREDERICK PICTEN . I live at 44, Preston Street, Camden Town—on 2nd April, I was in the factory, in Mansfield Place—the prisoner came into the yard at 2 o'clock—I knew him—he had no right there—he began to pull all the bricks out of the furnace—about 5.30 I was in the George IV. with Sherwin, having a drop of beer—the prisoner came in and said "You are too b—y big for me to fight, I can't fight you"—I said "I do not want to fight"—he said "That is what I will do for you, you b—," and put a knife into me—I did not threaten to punch his nose—I saw a stick there.

Prisoner. Q. Was not I employed by the man who employed you at the factory? A. No—I did not say I would give you a punch or two on the nose.

MICHAEL SOPP (Policeman Y 54). I took the prisoner on 2nd April, and said "You are charged with stabbing a man"—he said "I have done nothing."

Prisoner. I said "I have done nothing," and I did not know that I had The Prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate: "All I have to say, your Worship, is, that the man came up to me and said he would give me a punch in the nose. I was cutting a piece of stick with my knife, he came up to carry out his threat, I put up my hand to stop him, and the knife struck him. I did it accidentally.

Prisoner's Defence. I am a hardworking man, with a wife and children, and have not the means to get Counsel to defend me. I went to the factory where the prosecutor is employed, and borrowed a sack, and went to take the soot, and he said if I did not go he would give me a punch in the nose. About two hours afterwards I was cutting some bread and cheese with my knife in the public-house, and the prosecutor came in with his witness, and rushed at me to strike me. I put up my arm and he fell on the knife, inflicting the wound. The fact of it is, it is spite. The witness is in the same business as myself, and if I am sent to prison he thinks he will get

my business. It was a straight wound, not wider than the blade of a knife, which will prove that he fell on it. It was only two inches deep, and if I did it wilfully I should have done it with a great deal of force, and it must have made a down wound and not a slit wound. If he shows the wound you will see that I am speaking the truth. It did not go through his coat, only through his waistcoat.


Reference Number: t18720506-401

401. JOHN CUNNINGHAM (29) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Dicker, and stealing therein a watch and chain, his property.

MR. ST. AUBYN conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES NORTON . I am assistant to John Dicker, a pawnbroker, of 1, Cornwall Terrace—on Saturday night, the 13th, about 10 o'clock, I was behind my counter—I heard a smash of glass, ran out, and saw the prisoner in custody—he said that he was drunk and was pushed into the window—I went to the Police Court and charged him, and when I returned I missed stock value 36l. 4s.—these are three of my price tickets, they were on articles taken out of the shop—one was brought into the shop—I cannot say where it was found, but one was found under the window, and one in window.

THOMAS ALLSOP . I keep an eating-house at 5, Providence Place—I was outside the prosecutor's shop, and saw the prisoner deliberately run from the edge of the pavement, smash the window, and take the things out—I saw some chains in his hand, but I did not see the stone—I laid hold of him and took him into the shop—he threw the chains on the ground.

GEORGE WOOLNOUGH (Policeman K 146). I took the prisoner in the shop—he said he was the worse for drink and some one pushed him against the window—I did not see the chains—this large granite stone was handed to me by a man, who said he took it out of the window.

JOHN WARREN . I live with my father at Si Ann's Place, Limehouse—I picked up this ticket outside the shop after the shutters were up—I took it to my father.

Prisoner's Defence. I had been drinking, and was shoved into the window. I know nothing about it.

GUILTY Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-402

402. JOHN DALEY (18) , PLEADED GUILTY to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Joseph Garratt, and stealing therein a coat and other articles, his property— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-403

403. WILLIAM BRYAN** (19) , stealing a handkerchief from the person of Samuel Bustin, after a previous conviction— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.] And

Reference Number: t18720506-404

404. MELBOURNE DAVIS (17) , to a robbery on Emma Rawe, and stealing a watch and chain from her person— Twelve Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18720506-405

405. THOMAS HOLLAND (21) , Stealing one watch of William Blake Howe, from his person.

MR. A. B. KELLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. H. BROWN

the Defence.

WILLIAM BLAKE HOWE . I am a plasterer, of Naylor Street, Caledonian Road—on 6th April, about 8.30, p.m. I was in the meat market—I heard my chain jingle, found it hanging, and missed my watch—I looked round and saw the prisoner—he put his hand behind him—I took hold of it, and took the watch from him—he struggled—I got assistance and handed him

to the policeman—he was not out of my possession a quarter of a minute 4-1 have no doubt he is the man.

Cross-examined. I might have had a pint of ale that day, but nothing more.

JAMES BYFIELD (City Policeman 330). I saw the prisoner struggling with the prosecutor—the prisoner went on his knees and begged to be forgiven—going to the station he struggled and told Howe he had a very hard heart, not the heart of a Christain—the bow of the watch was wrenched off.

The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate: "I have nothing to say, only to beg for mercy and ask for one more chance."

GUILTY **— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-406

406. WILLIAM JONES (26), and THOMAS WALKER (28) Breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomas Hewitson and another, with intent to steal.

MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution; and MR. H. BROWN

the Defence.

JOHN FAWCETT . I am foreman to Thomas Hewitson and another, upholsterers, Tottenham Court Road—on Monday morning, 21st April, I was in bed—I was rung up, went down to the door and found a policeman there—I went with him to the warehouse, 4, North Crescent, and found the prisoners in the area—I asked them what they were doing there—Jones said that the wind had blown his hat into the area, and that Walker had followed him there—they were sober, but they pretended to be drunk—I examined the window in the area and found two bars wrenched out, and the shutters forced and thrown down—there were footmarks on the door, as if they had been trying to force it, but they had not effected an entrance.

Cross-examined. Two men slept there, but only one was in charge that night—this was about 12.30.

HENRY HUTTON (Policeman E 65). On 21st April, about 12.30, I heard a noise in the area of 4, North Crescent—I turned on my light, and saw the two prisoners crouched down in a corner—I waited till another constable came, and sent him to the front door—I remained till he came with Fawcett—I then went round to the front door, and through the warehouse—the only way of getting to the area is climbing the railing and dropping about twelve feet—I took the prisoners, and examined the windows, doors, and shutters—some boards had been pulled away.

Cross-examined. From the time I turned my light on to the time I took the prisoners was from five to seven minutes—I saw marks on the railings where they had dropped over.

ROBERT BELL (Policeman E 224). I was on duty, and saw Hutton and the two prisoners in the area—I went to the front door, rang the bell, and went with Fawcett into the area, where the prisoners were—they must have climbed over the railings and jumped down—they were sober, as far as I could see.

Cross-examined. They pretended to be drunk—I searched them at the station, but found no burglarious instruments on them—one of them had a knife.

Jones received a good character.


Reference Number: t18720506-407

407. JAMES HENRY RYAN (24) was indicted for bigamy.

MR. GRIFFITHS conducted the Prosecution.

DANIEL HASTINGS (Policeman S 78). About 8.30, on 16th April, Elizabeth Ryan spoke to me in Drummond Street, Euston Square—I went to Euston Station with her, and she pointed out the prisoner—I asked him if he was the husband of Elizabeth Ryan, and he said "NO"—I then produced this certificate of marriage, and asked him his name—he said "Henry Ryan"—I asked him if he knew that certificate—he turned to Elizabeth Ryan and said "Do you intend carrying this out?"—she said "I do," and I, took him in custody.

EMMA EDWARDS . I am the wife of William Edwards, of the School House, St. James the Great, Bethnal Green—I am the sextoness of the church—I signed this signature as one of the witnesses—this certificate corresponds exactly with the register—I was present at the marriage on 29th September, 1867—I do not recognise the prisoner, but he knew me again—he told me so when I went to see him in prison.

Prisoner. Yes, I did tell her so—I do not deny the first marriage, but I deny that I am the woman's husband, because she has another husband living, but it is out of my power to find him; he is kept back, but she cannot say that he is dead.

MARY JONES . I live at 527, Liverpool Road—I was married to the prisoner on 16th April last—I knew him first on 14th February, he represented himself as a single man; he afterwards told me he had been married five years ago, and after he had been married a few months, he found the woman's husband was living, and therefore the marriage was void.

Prisoner. Q. Did I tell you that I had been married before? A. I knew you four months before you told me, and you said that you had never lived with her or supported her at all, but I found out afterwards that you had lived with her up to that time—you know you lived with her up to the 15th—your wife told me you only left her on that Monday, and you were married to her on the Tuesday—you did not tell me who your first wife was.

Prisoner's Defence. I was in a public-house in Hoxton twelve months ago, and a man there told me that he was George Fuller, and told me all this woman's life, and I have taxed her with it, and she cannot deny it. William Kirby has been looking after him, and I hoped he would produce him.

William Kirby being called did not appear.

GUILTY. Judgment respited.

On a subsequent day WILLIAM KIRBY appeared and stated that he had traced George Fuller from sixteen years ago up to twelve months ago, when he lost all trace of him, and he believed he was being kept out of the way, that he had searched the marriage register for 1846 (when the woman stated that she was married) for the marriage of Elizabeth Smith and George Fuller, but could not find it. THE COURT respited the judgment till next Session, stating that if Fuller was alive the prisoner could not be guilty.

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, May 8th, 1872.

Before Mr. Justice Byles.

Reference Number: t18720506-408

408. JAMES HARROW (15) , Feloniously demanding money by menaces from George Cutler.

MR. M. WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BROMBY the Defence.

The case related to a charge of indecent assault on the prisoner.

The prisoner received a good character GUILTY Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth— Six Months' Imprisonment.

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, May 8th, 1872.

Before Mr. Deputy-Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-409

409. THOMAS WEBSTER (38) was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury.

MESSRS. METCALFE and A. B. KELLEY conducted the Prosecution; and

MESSRS. GLYN and CURRIR the Defence.

BENJAMIN STUBBINS (Policeman H 111). I am warrant officer at the Thames Police Court—I produce an original summons, dated 30th March, signed by Mr. Paget, addressed to James Donovan, and also a summons to James Ives and William Marr—on the Friday following, the 30th March, those three persons appeared at the Police Court. (The summons against James Donovan was "Unlawfully using violence to Dennis Crawley with a view to coerce him, he being a workman, to quit his employment.") The other two summonses are exactly the same, addressed to William Marr and James Ives.

JOHN PYER . I am chief clerk at the Thames Police Court—I was present on 5th April when James Donovan appeared to that summons—I produce notes of the evidence which was taken—several witnesses were called to prove the assaults, and some were called for the defence, amongst whom was the. defendant, Thomas Webster—he was sworn—(Read: "I live at 4, King Street—I am a coal-heaver—I was in Glasshouse Street on the morning in question—I saw the defendant (Donovan), Marr, and Ives there—I saw Crawley also there, and A crowd fighting with another man named Quill—the defendant was in the crowd—he never struck Crawley—I never saw him—if he did strike him I must have seen him—the defendant did not strike Crawley while I was there—I was there till the latter end of it—after they passed us by I went away—I was looking for work—I did not hear the man fighting with Crawley say anything—I heard Crawley Bay that he would break our club up, and that the money should be spent in drink—I am a member of the club—neither the defendant nor myself took any notice of this.

Cross-examined. I can't swear whether Connell was there or not—I did not see him—I will swear the defendant did not strike the complainant. Re-examined. I have worked with the defendant three years—he is a quiet, hard-working man. By the Magistrate. I am one of the committee of the club—I can't say what the row was about—I did not hear any one call the complainant a cock-eyed bastard—we have this rule, that no member shall work for less than 6s. per five tons.")

Cross-examined. Previous to this summons a summons had been issued for a common assault, but I was not present at the hearing of that case—I know that the case was withdrawn at the suggestion of the Magistrate—another summons was issued, in which the defendant, and Ives, and Marr were included, that was withdrawn, and a suggestion was made that separate summonses should be taken in order that each defendant might be called as a witness for the other—the summons was not dismissed—it was withdrawn at the suggestion of the Magistrate—it was not heard—I have no recollection of the case beyond the evidence on my notes—the notes were read over by the Magistrate, and each witness was asked whether they were correct, and they said they were.

Re-examined. in cross-examination the defendant said, "I could not swear whether Crawley was there or not—I will swear the defendant did not strike him."

SIDNEY GEORGE THOMAS . I am second clerk at the Thames Police Court—I was acting-clerk on the 6th April, when the summons against William Marr was gone into—Webster was called as a witness on his behalf—I took notes of his evidence—he was sworn. (Read: "I saw Crawley fighting with Quill—there was a crowd there—neither Marr, Donovan, nor I struck complainant—I must have seen them if they had done so.") Dennis Crawley was the complainant in that summons—on the same day the summons against James Ives was also taken—Webster was sworn as a witness on his behalf—he said "I swear Ives never spoke to Crawley, nor did any of the three strike him; I must have seen it if it had occurred"—the Magistrate cautioned the witness, and then he said: "I swear positively that neither Donovan, Ives, nor Marr struck Crawley; if either of them had done so I must have seen it"

Cross-examined. I was present when the other summonses were withdrawn—on the first occasion it was withdrawn because it was a summons for a common assault, and in the second case it was withdrawn because the solicitor wished it drawn in this form: "That they assaulted him with a view to coerce"—Counsel objected to the form of the summons, and the Magistrate decided to adjourn it, and then it was withdrawn—I don't recollect when Webster was giving his evidence, that he was asked whether he had seen Donovan strike Crawley—I have no doubt he was—I can't recollect whether when he was asked "Did you see Donovan strike Crawley?" he said "I did not"—I don't remember whether he was asked "Were you present with Donovan?" or that he said "I was;" or whether he was then asked if Donovan had struck Crawley he must have seen it—the Magistrate probably pressed that question—I have a sort of general impression that it was done, but I can't say—I can't say that he said "The reason I am particular is because I wish to speak the truth"—it is a very common speech for a witness, but I can't say that he said it.

Re-examined. We have hundreds of cases, and my memory entirely depends upon note.

PETER CONNELL . I live at 35, Glasshouse street, east smithfield, and am a master coal heaver—I contract for the loading and unloading of barges—previous to the strike I was in the habit of employing gangs of men, and paying them 5s. for five tons—the strike took place a little before 14th April—they formed a sociery about that time, and the strike was a little before that—a man named Dennis Crawley worked for me, and he continued to do so during the strike—he told me he was one of the members of the sociery—on 14th march I went out with Crawley to his work—Gahan and a boy were with us—Crawley had been to my house, and we were going to the millwall docks to work—we had to ho along glasshouse street—I saw a crowd there—when we got half-way down the street, one lot of men came up—they rushed across the road—a man of the name of Quill shoved Crawley, and Donovan struck him in the face—he fell down and was cut—I knew both quill and Donovan before, they had worded for me occasionally—I helped Crawley up—Marr was in the first lot of men—he also struck Crawley—that is William Marr, the man who was summoned afterwards—he struck him in the face—I am not sure whether he fell then or not—Marr hot him after Donovan did it, and after he was picked up—

we went along to the bottom of Glasshouse Street, where there was another crowd—Ives struck Crawley, and knocked him down—that was James Ives, who was afterwards summoned—I got Crawley up, and got him ultimately to the Docks—he was struck by many others as well—his face was cut in two places—he was not seriously damaged—I knew Ives before—I knew Webster before—I did not see him there at all—he was not with Donovan or Marr at that time—when Quill shoved Crawley and Donovan struck him, that was the commencement of it—there were only a few there then—I could see them distinctly—after that the crowd increased, but I saw Marr plainly—when Ives struck him he rushed out of the crowd, as if he was waiting for him—we did not see him till we got quite close—I positively swear that those three men struck Crawley, and I knew them all before.

Cross-examined. The crowd was in different lots, so that after we got from one lot we came to another—they were not all together—as we went along Quill and Donovan crossed the street—I followed Crawley to the Docks—I did all I could in the way of talking and remonstrating with them—I told the men I would prosecute them, and they said they did not care—the first lot of men were about half-way in Glasshouse Street—I was close to Crawley all the time—the crowd was not large at first, but as the row went on the people kept running from all directions—it would be impossible for a man in another crowd to see what was done, but I was not in another crowd—I did not see Webster at all—Crawley told me he was a member of the society.

DENNIS CRAWLEY . I am a coal-heaver, and work for Mr. Connell—at the time of the strike I was at stevedore's work—I first joined the society as a member, but I left afterwards—they did not want me—I was working for Mr. Connell while I was a member—I put some gear up for him which saved a good deal of labour—they gave me back my money, and refused to work with me—that was about a fortnight before 14th March—on that day I went out from Mr. Connell's house to go to the Docks with Mr. Gahan and the boy—we went along Glasshouse Street—I was shoved by Quill and knocked down by Donovan—there were a great many people there, about fifty, in two or three different bodies—Donovan came forward and struck me in the face and knocked me down—Mr. Connell picked me up—we went a few steps forward, and I was knocked down again by William Marr—he ran from the top of the street, came in front of me, and struck me in the face—it knocked me down—I was kicked several times by other persons while I was on the ground—at the bottom of the street I was struck by James Ives—he struck me in the face too—I had known all the three men before, and I am positive that they struck me—I did not see Webster at all, to my recollection—Ives was at the bottom of the street—that would be about 100 or 150 yards from where Donovan was at first—I did not see Ives there when Donovan struck me—he might have followed behind me, but I did not see him.

Cross-examined. I did not see Webster anywhere—there were two or three crowds—he might have been there without my seeing him—I don't know whether he was or not—a number of persons came up after I was knocked down—the man who struck me ran out first—I don't know how long I was on the ground—I lost my senses—I can't say whether Webster was there or not, I can only say that I did not see him—they assigned two reasons for expelling me from the society—I have been tried for unlawful possession—I have not been convicted of felony—I have been convicted of

Unlawful possession about three times—I was never convicted of felony—I have been charged, but you might charge a man with murder, the thing is to prove it—I felt it was hard to be deprived of an honest living—I got my shilling back, and I never went there again—I did not fight with Quill—he pushed me, but I never put my hands up.

Re-examined. There were different groups of people as we went down the street—Donovan was in the first—Marr was in a different one, and Ives was in another, they were not all mixed up together—when I was struck on the face first I distinctly saw Donovan give the blow—Ives was the last who struck me, there were other men struck me, but I have not brought them to justice—I saw them all distinctly.

MORRIS GAHAN . I am Connell's father-in-law—on the 14th March, I was going down Glasshouse Street with him and Crawley to look after work—there were a good many people in the street—Donovan came and hit Crawley, and knocked him down—I knew him before—he worked for us—Quill was there—he collared and shoved Crawley—he did not hit him—as soon as Quill caught him Donovan hit him—I picked him up and he did not go on many minutes, and he was knocked down again by William Marr—I saw him come and strike Crawley—the last man that struck him was Ives—he was the last man that hit him in the crowd.

Cross-examined. There was a great crowd—I saw the men who knocked Crawley down—the crowd was not too great for that—I did not see Webster there, he might have been there, but I did not see him—I was before the Magistrate.

WILLIAM GAHAN . I am the grandson of Morris Gahan—on the morning of the 14th I was in my uncle's shop—I saw my grandfather and uncle going down the street—I saw Marr punching Dennis Crawley, and Donovan and Ives kicking him—I knew them before—I saw Quill there—he shoved Crawley.

Cross-examined. I did not see Webster—there was a great crowd all over the street—I was close behind my uncle and Crawley, and could see all that took place. The prisoner received a good character.

GUILTY .— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-410

410. JAMES IVES was indicted for willful and corrupt perjury, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . (See last case.)— Twelve Months' Imprisonment

Reference Number: t18720506-411

411. CHARLES HOWARD (20), JAMES STEDMAN (21) , Robbery, with violence, on William Lamb, and stealing a watch, his property.

MR. MILL WARD conducted the Prosecution; MR. PATER defended HOWARD, and MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS defended STEDMAN.

WILLIAM LAMB . I live at 61, St. Thomas' Road, near Victoria Park—on 6th March, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I was returning home—I was passing through an alley that connected Virginia Walk with Salisbury Walk, when I was attacked by three or four men, one of whom snatched my watch from my pocket and broke the chain—I was knocked down by a blow on the face and the men ran away—I went to the station with a little boy who was there and gave information—I have not seen my watch since.

GEORGE CRAGGS . I live at 2, Miles Place—I am a skewer maker—on the 6th March I was going up Fountain Alley, in the afternoon—I saw the prisoners there, and two other men—Howard was near the road, Stedman

was against the post, and two more—I saw the prosecutor coming through the alley—Stedman took his watch and Howard hit him—he fell down—Stedman had the watch and they all ran away—I went to the police-station two or three days afterwards and picked out Stedman first, and I looked round and picked out Howard—I don't know how many there were.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. I had never seen Howard before—he stood again the road, and the gentleman was going to run after him, and Howard hit him—when I was at the police-station I stated that he was standing again the road—I said at the Police Court that Stedman took the watch, and Howard hit him—it is correct that Howard stood in the road—I don't remember that I said before the Magistrate that Stedman knocked him down too—I was taken to the station by a policeman—I have not had any money given to me, or been promised anything—there were other persons there besides the prisoners and the two other men; Sammy Miles was there—I did not see a female there named Holden—I know her—I was playing up there with Sammy Miles and two other little boys—I don't know their names—they lived down the court where we were playing—I picked out Stedman first at the police-station—I said after that "I don't believe I can see anyone here," and the policeman said "Look around again;" I looked around again, and then I picked out Howard—the robbery was about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I had not seen Howard between 6th March, and the time I saw him at the police-station.

DAVID ISTED (Policeman H R 28). I was with Cowley when the prisoners were taken into custody—Howard was apprehended first on the 15th—Cowley told him the charge, and he made a statement to him—we went back to where Stedman lived—we told him we should take him for being concerned with others in stealing a watch in Virginia Row—his mother then got up and said he was at home all that morning, having his tea—on the way to the police-station I told him we had got Howard in custody, and he would be charged with being concerned with him—he said "I know where we were now, over at Victoria Park, because it was such a fine day"—we took him to the station—they were placed in with about ten others, and the boy Craggs was called to identify them—he identified Stedman first—he was then told by the sergeant to look round to see if there was anyone else, and he picked out Howard—the prosecutor could not identify anyone.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Nothing was given to Craggs—I did not hear him say after he had picked out Stedman, that he could not see anyone else—the sergeant is not here—the little boy Miles was taken to see if he could identify anyone, and a girl named Holden.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. She saw the prisoners—I did not go into the room, so I don't know whether she identified them—I think I brought Miles down—I told him we had two men in custody for this robbery, and he was to see if he knew them—I took him there for that purpose—I did not give him sixpence, nor did any one in my presence—Cowley did not.

Re-examined. Miles did not identify them, nor did the girl—the boy Craggs had no difficulty at all.

JAMES COWLEY (Detective Officer H.) I took Howard into custody—I told him it was for being concerned with others in stealing a watch and chain of a gentleman in Virginia Row—he said "Very well, I can prove where I was, I was whitewashing my sister's house"—I took him to the station, and after that I went back with Isted to Stedman's place—I told him I should take him for being concerned—he made no answer—his mother said "I can prove

he was at home having his tea"—the prosecutor could not identify the prisoners—I fetched Craggs, and he recognised Stedman, he was standing second on the right—Howard was at the other end—the sergeant told him to look round and see if he could identify anyone else, and he picked out Howard—I gave the boy Miles 6d., but Isted was not present.


Reference Number: t18720506-412

412. FRANCIS HOLTON (42) , PLEADED GUILTY to stealing four shirts and one box, of George William Piggott and another, and seven shirts of Stephen Evans, and also to obtaining 1440 pieces of gimp, from Herbert Henry Keble, by false pretences— Nine Months' Imprisonment. And

Reference Number: t18720506-413

413. THOMAS STOCKER (45) , to burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Perry, and stealing one pair of trowsers, three shirts, and other articles, having been before convicted in September, 1866*— Nine Months' Imprisonment. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, May 8th, 1872.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-414

414. WILLIAM HEMMING (42) , PLEADED GUILTY to three indictments for feloniously forging and uttering orders for the payment of 7l. each, with intent to defraud— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-415

415. JOHN CLARKE (23) , to stealing a rug, the property of Thomas Mills and another, having been before convicted of felony— Seven Years' Penal Servitude. [Pleaded guilty: See original trial image.]

Reference Number: t18720506-416

416. HENRY HOLLEY (16) , Feloniously placing a clinker and brick upon the West London Extension Railway, and moving certain points, with intent to obstruct and upset divers engines, carriages, and trucks then using the railway. MR. J.C. CARTER conducted the Prosecution; and MR. RIBTON the Defense.

JOHN MOORISH . I am a signalman on the District Railway—on 11th April, about 8.30 in the morning, I was on duty in my signal box, and saw the prisoner handling a pair of points for about five or six minutes, on the West London Extension Railway—he was about fifty yards from me—I saw him stoop and pick up something close by the points where he was standing and working the handle—I saw him put it between the points, I could not tell what it was until I went to it afterwards—he then left those points and went in the direction of another pair of points on the West London Railway—I could not see what he did there on account of some trucks of coal standing in the way—I then saw him go over a fence six feet high—I called the attention of Lansdale, one of the plate layers—I got out of my box, and went to the first pair of points, and saw the clinker there—I and Lansdale followed the prisoner over the fence into the road—Lansdale caught hold of him and said "If there was a policeman here I would give you in charge"—the prisoner said nothing to that—Lansdale told him that we had taken the clinker out of the points—he said he had only kicked his foot against it—there was a conversation with the prisoner and Lansdale—the prisoner was not then taken into custody—I believe he lived near there at a public-house—this is the clinker I took out (produced)—I could not take it out without pushing the handle over; it was placed between the rails; the points were about two inches off from the metal on each side—that kept the points half-way open—after we came back, Lansdale and I went to the other pair of points, and there found this piece of brick in

Between the points, which were also partially open—I have been on the railway there just on twelve months, and am familiar with the working of it; if a train had come by while these things were there, it would have been thrown off the rail—the line is sometimes used for passenger traffic, but mainly for goods; there are many trains in the course of an hour—one came up three minutes after we came back over the fence, we stopped it—it would not have been stopped unless I had known of the things being there—if the train had passed on without being stopped, it would have been thrown off the line at the points where the brick was—the points where the clinker was is not a point for trains—they are running about there shunting all day long—trains frequently pass over there.

Cross-examined. I know now that the prisoner was a pot-boy in the service of Mr. Davis—I did not know it then—I had never seen him before—I know Mr. Davis—he keeps the Kensington Arms—I have been there and had a glass of ale, not often—I call four or five times a day often—I never saw the prisoner there—I never had ale sent to me from there—I have never asked for it to be sent; I swear that—I have never asked Mr. Davis to supply me on credit, nor has he refused—there are no doubt gangers working on the line—I don't know that they have beer sent to them—I have never seen empty pots left on the line—I was about fifty yards from the prisoner when he was at the first pair of points—we knew nothing about the brick until we came back from the fence after we had left the prisoner—I saw him handling the first pair of points—I did not give him into custody, because it was not my duty—it would be the duty of the man that had charge of the line—I saw danger—I heard the prisoner say that he had kicked the stone with his foot, that it was on the line—I did not hear him say it was altogether an accident—it was a clear morning—I did not call out to him—I did not know what he was about until I went to the points—he was pulling the lever, working the points forwards and back—I knew he was doing wrong, but I did not know what it was till I went and saw the clinker—I never mended the cans belonging to Mr. Davis—he did not say I should not have any more to mend as I did not do them right—I did not apply to him on more than one occasion for beer on credit—he did not refuse, nor did I threaten to be revenged on him—I did not see any other person near at the time I saw this—I saw him stoop down and put something between the points—Lansdale was with me when I found the clinker—that was before I had overtaken the boy.

Re-examined. There were five pairs of rails between where I was and where the prisoner was—no one could have kicked the clinker into the position that I found it, it would be impossible—it could only be done by pulling the lever and causing the points to open, and then dropping it in and letting the handle go back—it is 1 cwt. or 1 1/2 cwt.—I am a servant of the District Railway—this happened on the West London Railway—it was no part of my duty to touch the points or to have anything to do with them, but seeing danger I went to see what it was that had been done.

WILLIAM LANSDELL . I am a platelayer, working on the West London Extension Railway—on the morning of 11th April, between 8 and 9 o'clock, Morrish called to me—I went to him, and in consequence of what he said I went after the prisoner—I saw him get over the fence before Morrish called to me—I caught him in the Fenelon Road, and Morrish came up—I said to the prisoner "What have you been doing with them points?"—he said "Nothing"—I said "You must have done, for I took this clinker out"—

he said "I did not mean to do it"—a policeman was coming along and I told him he had been doing something to the points, putting this in—he said "If you give him in charge I will lock him up"—I looked at the boy and said "I know where you work, therefore I will tell my foreman"—I let him go then—when Morrish called me I went with him and assisted in taking the clinker out—it was fixed tight in between the points—it was necessary to open the points to get it out—it could not have been kicked there or got there by accident—after letting the boy go I went back and assisted in taking the brick out—it was in the same position as the clinker—when the prisoner was getting over the fence he was not above ten or fifteen yards from where the brick was—I did not not actually see him at the point where the brick was found.

Cross-examined. I knew the prisoner by seeing him at Mr. Davis's—there are a quantity of clinkers like this about the line—I did not hear the prisoner say he had kicked it by accident—he said "I did not mean to do it"—I have been to Mr. Davis's to have beer, not very often—beer is not sent on the line to the gangers, it is not allowed, I never saw it done—I have heard of pots being left on the line for the boys to fetch, but I never saw it—there are coal wharfs near the line—I believe beer is sent to the men there—the pots are not left on the line, they may be on the wharf—this happened on Thursday, the boy was not given into custody till Saturday—I did not know that I was justified in locking him up before I told my foreman—I depended upon the information given me by Morrish—I did not see the boy do anything.

Re-examined, No one could have kicked the clinker or brick into the position in which I found them—the coal wharf is on the same side of the line as the public house, therefore, to get on the wharf he need not come on the line at all.

JOSEPH MORRIS . I am an inspector on the West London Extension Railway—this part of the line is inspected twice during every twenty-four hours, before 7 o'clock in the summer and 8 o'clock in the winter, in the morning, and before ceasing work in the evening, by the ganger or foreman of the platelayers, Henry Taylor—I know the working of the line and where these things were found—if a train had come by at the time it must of necessity have caused the engine to leave the rail.

Cross-examined. I do not know of beer being sent to the platelayers, I never heard of it, or of pots being left on or near the line.

JOHN TAYLOR . I am a ganger of platelayers on this railway—it is my duty to inspect the line twice a day—on 11th April I inspected it before 7 o'clock in the morning—I passed through these points, at that time; they were perfectly clear and clean—I saw no pots on the line—I have been employed there nine years, and during that time I never saw any pots on that part of the line.

Cross-examined. I never knew of beer being sent to the men—it is my duty to inspect the line, and I did so—I looked at the places where the clinker and brick were found—if they had been there they could not have escaped my notice.

ROBERT MULFORD (Policeman.) I took the prisoner in charge on Saturday, 16th April, on a warrant—I read the warrant to him, and told him he would be charged with placing a brick and a clinker between the points—he said that he went over the line to see if he could find some

Of his master's beer cans, and that as he was passing along his foot kicked against a stone and that was how it came there.

JOHN MORRISH (re-examined.) It could not have been an empty pot that I saw the boy pick up—I did not see any pots or cans in his hand—if there had been one on the line where he was I must have seen it—I did not see any gangers at work on that spot that morning.

MR. RIBTON called the following Witnesses for the Defence. THOMAS HENRY DAVIS. I keep the Kensington Arms, Warwick Road, and have done so eighteen years—the prisoner was in my employment three weeks and five days—before that he was with Mr. Johns twelve months—I had a character from him—I found him a very steady; honest, truthful boy, everything I could wish—I send beer out to the men on the coal wharf, not on the railway; the railway men fetch it in cans, and when they are empty they lay them down and our lad collects them—they lay them down alongside the line very often—the coal wharf is near the line—it is a siding—they are in the habit of laying the empty cans and pots there, and the boy fetches them—the prisoner should go every morning at 8.30 and every afternoon at 2.30, collecting cans—on 11th April he went out as usual about 8.30, to collect the cans at the coal wharf and calling down on the side of the line—I know the spot where the clinker was found; it is no thoroughfare except for persons on business; it is not exposed to the public, persons can get there—there is a shunting there—the men lay cans, if they have them, in between the metals, or outside the metals, close to them—the prisoner returned about 9 o'clock—he did not tell me what had happened—he told my wife: she told me so on the Friday—I first heard of the charge then from the constable, Bradley—he was apprehended on Saturday night—I know Morrish, the signalman—I have frequently served him with beer—I can't say that he has mended cans for me, they have had them over at the signal-box—he has a fellow-servant who relieves him—I don't know his name—I never bad any conversation with Morrish about mending cans—he has asked me to send beer to him on credit, I refused—I told him I would not lend cans as well—he asked me why—I said "I am losing two or three dozen cans a week, on an average, and I shan't lend any more cans on The railway"—he said "B you and your cans too, you shall suffer for This"—I know the fence spoken of, it is a wooden one, the boy could climb up it.

Cross-examined. The coal wharf is between my house and the line—in order to get there it would not be necessary to cross where the points are—I have seen cans near the points and have collected them myself—I should say within fifty yards of them, in the middle of the line—I could not say how many cans the prisoner brought back that morning—he had some, that I am sure of—I don't mean that Morrish asked to have beer sent to him when on duty—he has a garden there, and he works there at odd times—it was about three weeks before the prisoner was apprehended that he told me I should suffer for this, and I have not seen him in the house since—I have said that he mended cans for me—he had another man who worked for him—I did not pay for mending the cans, they did it on their own account.

Re-examined. His mate mended the cans—I really don't know who did it—I had a can that ran, and his mate said "We can mend it for you at the signal box"—and I said, "Very well, do as you like."

HENRY PIKE —I am in the employ of Mr. Machin, a butcher in Kensington Road—on the morning of the 11th April I saw the signalman, Morrish,

and the platelayer stop the prisoner—Morrish asked him what he meant by placing the clinker between the points—he said he did not do it intentionally; it was quite accidental; he was walking along the line looking after his master's cans, and he kicked against it accidentally, but did not notice that it went between the points—a policeman was called, and Morrish said to him "What do you think this d—d fellow has been doing? He has placed a clinker between the points"—the policeman said "If you like to give him in custody I will take him"—he said "No, I won't give him in custody; I will speak to our foreman and see what he says about it"—they then went away—Morrish said to the prisoner "I will kick your d—d If I find you on the line any more"—I did not notice any cans with him.

WILLIAM BRADLEY (Policeman.) I came up on this morning when the boy was stopped—I saw two officials, and the lad, and several other persons—one of them called me over—I said "What do you want?"—he said "This boy has been putting this clinker in between the points"—I said "Are you sure he did it?"—he said "Yes; I saw him from my box"—I then said to the lad "What made you do it?"—he said "I don't know; I did not mean to do it"—I said "But you have done it"—he made no answer—I did not hear him say that he had kicked it—I asked what he was doing there—he said he was after the cans—I asked who he was working for—he said "For Mr. Davis"—I then asked the official if he was going to give him into cus tody—he said "I will see Mr. Davis"—I believe it was Morrish that said that.

JURY. Q. Had he any cans with him? A. I did not notice any—they might have been standing down by his side.

GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury in consequence of his youth and good character. Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-417

417. JAMES SUMMERS (55), and ALFRED ASHMORE (32) , Stealing 1 lb. 6 oz. of tobacco of the London and St. Katherine Dock Company, their masters.—


MR. MONTAGU WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution; and A. B.KELLEY

Defended summers.

EDWARD GRINDELL .—I am a constable in the service of the London and St. Katherine Dock Company—on Saturday, 22nd April, about 20 minutes before 12, in consequence of something that came to my knowledge, I was watching in the C jetty tobacco warehouse—I was behind a partition—I made a small hole through the partition, so that I could see between the tubs—Ashmore worked up stairs—Summers had charge of the tobacco department on the ground floor of the C warehouse—as I was looking through the hole I saw Summers go to a bag of tobacco—Ashmore was present—they both took the bag together and put it on the floor—Ashmore sat down, unbuttoned his waistcoat, and put this tobacco (produced) in the waistband of his trowsers—Summers stood looking at him—they both took down the bag—it was betwixt some tubs on some more bags—I went round from behind the partition and came into the tobacco warehouse, went up to Ashmore, and asked him what he had got there, touching him on the breast—he said "Only a little piece of tobacco for a smoke"—Summers was still in the warehouse, about three yards from Ashmore, but he turned his back to me when I spoke to Ashmore—I took the tobacco from Ashmore's waistband, took him to the Victoria Dock Police Station, and then went back to

Summers—I asked Summers if he knew anything about this tobacco—he said he knew nothing at all about it—I took him also to the station, and charged them both—the tobacco weighs 1 1b. 6 oz.—I was eight yards from them when I saw this—I have known Summers seven years, as long as I have been in the employ—there was no one but the prisoners in the C warehouse at the time except the Custom House officer, who was against the door in his office.

Cross-examined. This was not a dark place; T could read a newspaper there—I could see the prisoners perfectly well between the rows of casks—Summers made no remark when I spoke to Ashmore, and I did not say anything to him then, because he had charge of the floor—I intended to take him after giving notice to the foreman to put someone else in charge of the place—I don't think Ashmore could have concealed the tobacco without Summers seeing him; I think he must have seen him—Ashmore had no business in that part of the building.

WILLIAM NIXON . I am foreman of the C warehouse—on 27th April the two prisoners were employed by the Company—Summers was in charge of the C warehouse to repack damaged tobacco—his duty was on the ground-floor, which is about 30 feet by 43 feet—he was alone there—there was a Custom House officer in his box at the door—Ashmore was employed on the top floor—he had no business on the ground floor by the tubs—it was his duty to leave at 12 o'clock.

THOMAS GRIGG (Head Constable, Victoria Dock.) On 17th April, the Prisoners were brought to me in custody by Grindell—Ashmore said, "I am Guilty of taking the tobacco"—summers said "I know nothing at all about It," and he appealed to Ashmore, and Ashmore said that summers knew Nothing about it.

MR. KELLEY called

ALFRED ASHMORE (the prisoner.) I have pleaded guilty to stealing this tobacco—Summers was in the store with me—at the time I took it he was not looking at me, and Mr. Grindell knows it—he did not help me down with the bag; he was pouring out his coffee previous to having his lunch at the time I took it.

Cross-examined. This was the first time I ever did anything of the kind, and I hope it will be the last—I went there to have my usual half-pint of ale that I have there of a morning, out of a bottle—Grindell saw me drinking it behind the tubs, so that I should not be seen by my superiors, as it is not allowed—I did not go there for the purpose of taking the tobacco—it is not true that Summers helped me down with the bag, it is quite false—he was not within two or three yards of me; he was round the Other side of the tubs, he could not see what took place—I did not take it out of a bag, I took it from behind the bags—I don't know who put it there, it might have fallen there.

EDWARD GRINDELL (re-examined.) I saw Ashmore drinking out of a Bottle—I did not see any coffee there—they have coffee about 12 o'clock—I did not see summers preparing his coffee—I am quite sure the bag was Taken down, and the tobacco taken out of it.

SUMMERS GUILTY Two Years' Imprisonment each.

Reference Number: t18720506-418

418. EDWIN LANSDELL (26) , PLEADED GUILTY to three indictments for forging and uttering requests for the delivery of goods.

Reference Number: t18720506-419

419. EDWIN LANSDELL (26), was again indicted with BENJAMIN HESLOP (25), and FREDERICK JOHN SMITH (43) , for a like offence.


MESSRS. POLAND and REGINALD BROWN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. GLYN defended Heslop.

EDWIN LANSDBLL (the prisoner). At the time I was taken into custody I lived at 8, Hammersley Street, Hoxton, and was in the employ of Messrs. Tullocks & Sons, of Leadenhall Street—I was formerly in the service of Mr. Walton, of Croydon—I have known the prisoner lately—I first saw Smith, on 28th March, at a chandler's shop in Goswell Road, kept by a person named Walters or Roberts, I am not sure which, opposite the street leading to the Charter. House—I don't know where Smith lived—I have known Heslop, about six weeks or two months by the name of Butler, he lived in Hoxton, part of the time—on 28th March I wrote this order (produced)on Travers & Co., I wrote it in Walters' shop, in Heslop and Walters' presence, and Walters took it—I then went on to Tullocks to see if my situation was satisfactory, and in the afternoon I returned to Walters' shop and there saw Smith—I saw 28 lbs. of pepper on the counter—I did not see any marks on it, but I noticed the parcel being undone and I said to Smith that it was not in the original package—Mrs. Walters acknowledged taking 3 lbs. out of it, which she put back—I did not see who brought the parcel in—I accompanied Heslop to Mr. Jones's, I did not go in—I waited next door at a public-house—Jones is a grocer in Tabernacle Square—Heslop carried the parcel, he went in with it and left it at Jones's—he then came to me at the public-house and asked me to write out an invoice—he told me he had sold the pepper for 10d. a pound—I wrote out this receipt—I suppose Heslop signed this "G. Butler"—I did not—I don't know what he did with the money—I can't say now how much exactly I had, but I should think about 5s—on 30th March I wrote out this order on Tomlins, Rendall & Co., of 33, Eastcheap, for 28 lbs. of ground pepper, and 7 lbs. of nutmegs—I wrote it in Walters' shop, Heslop and Walters were present—Mrs. Walters sent for Smith, and he came and the order was given to him by Walters—I did not hear anything said about it—Smith went out with it—on that same day I wrote this order on Collier & Sons, at the same place—I think that was in the afternoon, after they had been to Tomlins and Rendall's, but I am not certain as to the time—I saw what was brought from Tomlin and Rendall's, 28 lbs. of pepper and 7 lbs. of nutmegs, they were brought to Walters' shop by Smith, and there the order on Collier was written in Walters' and Heslop's presence and given to Smith—I and Heslop went and met him in Shore-ditch, with the keg and box of mustard, and we all three went to Jones—I took in the keg, I did not offer it for sale—Heslop was there carrying the pepper that had been brought from Tomlins'—I saw Jones, I said nothing to him myself, I came out directly, I never spoke a word to him, I left Heslop there—Smith was in the public-house next door, I wrote out this bill for Jones in the public-house—it is for the 28 lbs. of pepper at 10d., 1l. 3s. 7d.—I did not write this "Paid, G. W. Butler"—I gave the bill to Heslop—I think I got about 7s. out of that—I wrote this order on Borwick's, dated 6th April, at a public-house in Billiter Street, and gave it to Walters or Heslop, I am not certain which; they came to me at my dinner hour, I was then employed at Messrs. Tullocks'—I don't know what became of it—(The orders were read, they purported to be signed "Pro R. Walton, J. W. Baker")—I knew Baker, he was in Mr. Walton's employment.

Cross-examined. I swear that Heslop was an associate with me in this business—I don't know that he was carrying on business in partnership with a Mr. Butler—he introduced himself to me as Butler—I did not employ him to carry on business for me in the ordinary way—he was not my dupe or in my service, that I swear.

JOHN WILLIAM HAMMOND . I was in the service of Messrs. Travers & Sons, wholesale grocers, on 28th March, when this order was presented to me, we had a customer named Walton, at Croydon—I did not deliver the goods—I put on these figures "1/0 1/2"—that means the price per lb., and it was sent through by the man who Drought it into the warehouse.

THOMAS KELLIGER . I was clerk to Travers & Sons—I keep the order and delivery book—on 28th March I received this order—I gave directions for the 28 lbs. of pepper to be delivered—I afterwards entered it in this book, and saw the person who presented the order sign it "J. F. Smith"—I can't identify the person—it was about 3 o'clock or 3.30 in the afternoon—I gave the person a note of the goods—I did not give him the goods.

WALTER EDWARD BRADLEY . On 28th March last I was in the employ of Messrs. Travers, as delivery porter—this order was given to me to deliver 28 lbs. of ground white pepper—I can't say positively who the person was that I delivered the goods to, but I seem to remember Heslop's face—this (produced) is the parcel that I delivered, it is marked "Travers & Sons"—it was between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

HENRY ABLETT WHITE . I am warehouse clerk to Tomlin, Rendall & Co., spice merchants, Eastcheap—on 30th March this order for 28 lbs. of pepper and 7 lbs. of nutmegs was presented to me by Smith—I had the parcel made up and delivered to him, and he signed this receipt "M. J. Smith," and he took the things away—these are them produced—Mr. Walton was a customer.

EDWARD WILLIAM BICKERTON . In March last I was clerk to James Collier & Son, chocolate and mustard manufacturers, of Shoreditch—this order was presented to me, it is signed "W. O. Harris, late Smart, Chiswell Street"—Harris was a customer of ours—I believe Smith to be the person who presented it—I told the foreman to execute the order—I was present when the goods were delivered and the person signed this sheet "F. Sparkes"—it was about 1.30 in the day.

WILLIAM BRANCH . I am in the service of Collier & Son—on 30th March I delivered a box and keg of mustard, I believe to Smith, about 1.30 in the day.

CHARLES LANE . I am clerk to George Borwick & Co., drysalters, of 24, Chiswell Street—on 6th April this order for 28 lbs. of pepper and two gross boxes of baking powder was presented to me by Smith—the goods were delivered to him and he signed this book "F. Jones"—we had had two or three transactions with Mr. Walton, but not recently—I asked Smith where he came from—he said "From Walton, of Croydon," he was from the carrier, come for some goods for Walton: but he did not know the name of the carrier—he took out the goods and I followed him—we sent for a policeman and he went with him—I took the goods back—it was just before 3 o'clock—I left at 3 o'clock—I did not see the policeman come back with him.

WILLIAM JONES . I am a grocer and tea-dealer, of Tabernacle Square, Finsbury—I have known Heslop a very short time, some few months, by

the name of Butler—I don't know Lansdell at all, only by seeing him come with Heslop two or three times—I know nothing of Smith—on 28th March, some pepper was brought to me by Heslop—I had seen him about two months before about some sugar, he brought some sugar into the shop to sell—I said "I don't like your appearance, I don't think you came honestly by it, I think there is a detective watching you"—he said "Where?" I said "Opposite"—he said "Oh no it is not, that is the broken-down tradesman that the sugar belongs to, I will fetch him"—he then crossed over, and brought in Lansdell, and introduced him as his brother—I bought 42 lbs. of sugar, at 2 1/2d. a pound, and I sold it in the regular way for 3d—this is the parcel of pepper that Heslop brought on 28th March, it has my mark on it, and it has Travers & Sons name on it—I refused to buy it—I said "I don't think you came honestly by it"—he said "Oh, I can show you where it came from, and I got it in the regular way"—he showed me a weight note from Travers—I looked on it with suspicion—he then said "You know where to find me, you have got my address"—he wanted 1s. a lb. for it—I said "It is not particularly cheap, Tomlin & Rendall's price is 1s. 0 1/2d., here is their list"—he then said "My price will be 10d—I said "I will take it"—having noticed that Mr. Walton's name was on the weight note, and as I had lost so much myself by persons obtaining goods from me, and selling them under price, I was determined to stop it, and I went and gave information of the goods being obtained, and offered at 25 per cent, under price—I said to Heslop "You will make out an invoice for it"—he left and got the invoice, and returned with it and wrote this "Paid, G. W. Butler "in my presence, and I paid him 1l. 3s. 4d.—Lansdell was with him on that occasion; he was outside—the pepper was afterwards given up to Mr. Rendall—on 30th March, Heslop came again with Lansdell, they both came into the shop together, one was carrying one parcel, and one the other—the nutmegs and pepper were in a bag, the mustard was separate—I was very busy at the time, I said I did not want pepper, I not want anything to say to him—they stayed about an hour altogether—I was sending my young man off to the London County Bank, and was going myself to the Imperial Bank, I bank at both places, and Heslop pulled out this paper and said "Mr. Jones, what nonsense it is of you telling me that Tomlin & Rendall's price is 1s. 0 1/2d. I have just got some from them now," and he showed me the weight note, and wanted me to buy these two packets of 14 lbs. each, and the nutmegs and mustard—I said "No, I will have nothing to do with them"—he said "Will you take the pepper?" I said "Well, as the pepper is here, I had better take it"—I bought it for the purpose of showing where it came from, and as a proof that such goods were being offered—I bought it for 10d. a lb.—I would have nothing to do with the nutmegs or mustard—Heslop gave me this invoice for the pepper, and receipted "Paid, G. W. Butler"—I did not see him receipt it, my young man, Alder, got it receipted, and gave him the money 1l. 3s. 4d.—I don't know what became of Lansdell, I saw very little of him; I don't know who carried the mustard away, I was not in the shop then, I was at dinner.

Cross-examined. I thought the first transaction suspicious, and I took the last for proof of where the goods were coming from, so that I might let Mr. Kendall know that his goods were being offered at 25 per cent less than their value—I was doing business with Tomlin & Kendall—that was the only reason I took the pepper, and I told Tomlin & Rendall "Here are your goods back again; I have done it to stop it; someone hat been getting

yourgoods"—10 1/2 d. was not a proper price—it was below the value—he first asked me a shilling—I never knew Heslop under any other name than Butler—I had no business with him—he has called two or three times—I did not commission him to sell three gross of blacking for me at 12s. a gross that I had bought from Mr. Spence—there was three gross of blacking, but he never sold it for me—he was a man that had job lots, and I said it was out of my line, and if he could sell it and make anything out of it, he could do so, like any other man coming to the shop that was in the habit of selling parcels—that was all I knew of him—I did not commission him to sell for me—taking him to be a moderately respectable man, I took very good care that I had the money first—my first transaction with him was his offering to sell me some paper—that was before the sugar—I said "I don't know anything of you; who are you?"—he said "Mr. Spence sent me to you"—Spence lived with a firm named Warren—I said "I don't want any paper"—he said "It is cheap"—I said "I don't want anything to do with you; I don't like your appearance"—I did not buy it.

COURT. Q. Having bought these two lots of pepper, what did you do? A. I went immediately and let Tomlin & Rendall know, and from them I went to Travers, and told them their pepper was offering at 25 per cent, under price—it was between 2 or 3 in the afternoon of 30th March that the prisoners came to me, and they waited an hour.

JOHN ALDER . In March last I was assistant to Mr. Jones—on 30th two persons came there with some pepper—I believe these are the two parcels they brought—I saw Heslop sign the receipt as Butler.

RICHARD WALTON . I am a grocer, at Croydon—Lansdell was in my employ four or five years ago—I sometimes buy things of Travers & Sons, Rendall & Co., and Borwick's—Baker is my foreman—these three orders are not signed by him or written by my authority—I knew nothing whatever about these transactions.

JOHN WILLIAM BAKER . I am in Mr. Walton's service—these three orders are not signed by me, or my authority—I know nothing about the transactions.

ROBERT ORME HARRIS . I am a corn-chandler, at 33, Chiswell Street—I have dealings with Messrs. Collier—this order is not my writing, or written by my authority—I succeeded Mr. James Smart in the business.

JOHN SPITTLE (City Detective). I took Lansdell into custody—I searched his lodging, and found these cards, with "George Charles Butler, wholesale pickle dealer, "on them—Heslop was taken at the same time by other officers—on the way to the station I told him he would be charged with forging and uttering two orders for pepper on Messrs. Tomlin & Rendall and Travers, which pepper had been sold to Mr. Jones—he said that he had sold it on commission only—I asked "For whom?"—he said "For two men named Smith and Roberts"—at the station he gave the name of Benjamin Heslop—I saw Smith at the station the same day, and charged him—he said "All right."

CHARLES BOYDEN (Policeman G R 32). On 6th April I received instructions from Mr. Borwick—I went to his warehouse, and found Smith there with an order represented to come from Mr. Walton—while I was talking to Mr. Berwick, Smith rushed out of the warehouse—a foot passenger stopped him—I brought him back and asked what he ran away for—he said he wanted to make water—I then asked him who he received the order from—he said "From Russon, of Croydon"—I asked "Where?"—he said "In the

Old Bailey"—I asked "When?"—he said "To-day"—I went with him and Mr. Borwick's traveller to the Old Bailey, and asked if he could see the person who gave the order—he said "No"—I went into the booking-office, and the clerk said in Smith's hearing that the cart did not arrive till between 6 and 7 in the evening, and it was then 3 o'clock.

GEORGE RUSSON . I am a carrier at Croydon—I sometimes call at Mr. Borwick's for goods for Mr. Walton—I did not employ Smith—I don't know him.

Smith's Defence. I received the order from a man in the street, and I went to get the things. That is all I have to say. I know nothing of these two.

GUILTY .— Two Years' Imprisonment each.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, May 9th, 1872.

Before Mr. Justice Byles.

Reference Number: t18720506-420

420. FREDERICK HILL (32), and GEORGE SEPTIMUS SANDERSON (48), were indicted for stealing 15 casks of soda and 15 wooden casks, of William Malcolmson. Second Count—Feloniously receiving the same.

MESSRS. METCALFE and MONTAGU WILLIAMS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. H. S. GIFFARD, Q.C., with MR. BESLEY, the Defence.

SAMUEL SLACK . I am a lighterman, and live in Cable Street, Ratcliff—in September last I received instructions to take the barge Belle from alongside the C. M. Palmer to a ship called the Parana, then lying at the Millwall Docks—the Belle was loaded—I was not informed of the number of casks that were on board the Belle—I had no written document—I took the Belle loaded as she was, to alongside the Parana—I was present part of the time when it was unloaded—after it was unloaded there was a conversation as to the number of casks that were on board—I obtained the signature of the mate, Spurring, to this note for 340 casks, and handed it to Mr. Jury, the foreman to Messrs. Hill & Sanderson, on Sunday morning—it was on Saturday that I unloaded—I don't know the day of the month—I received the receipt from the mate at 11 o'clock on Saturday night—although the receipt is for 340 casks, I do not myself know how many were actually delivered, because I had to leave to come to the foreman to get a receipt, as I had none.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. I never had this receipt previous to the mate signing it—I never saw it till he handed it to me—I don't know who had charge of it—in the ordinary course, the lighterman would tender a receipt for the mate to sign, that is, the broker's receipt—I took Hill & Sanderson's receipt, but I never saw that receipt—the mate did not sign that, he signed the broker's receipt—I don't know where the broker's receipt came from; very likely from Hill & Sanderson's foreman—I did not sign any receipt, I signed nothing whatever—I did not load them—I believe my younger brother gave a receipt to the C. M. Palmer—in the ordinary course, somebody would have to give a receipt.

WILLIAM HENRY JARVIS . I am in the employ of the Newcastle Shipping Company, and superintended the delivery of goods for them—on 15th September I superintended the delivery of the goods from the C. M. Palmer—my book is dated the 14th, that would be the date of the vessel's arrival—to the best of my belief, I delivered to Hill & Sanderson's barges on that day 489 casks of soda—132 of that lot were marked "A K"—I could not swear to seeing the marks on the casks—when the order is issued I give the man

at the gangway orders to deliver them, and I take a general supervision of them, and I only suppose them to be right—the men in the hold check the marks, the labourers; they hook on such and such marks—I take the receipt of the person I deliver them to—I have here the receipt of Charles Slack as receiving the goods—he has signed for three lots of soda and one lot of alkali—the first is "B T 132"—that means 1 up to 132—altogether there are 364 of soda—they were delivered into Hill & Sanderson's lighter, and Charles Slack signed my book for the whole quantity.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. I don't recollect now whether I was there when he went away with them—the C. M. Palmer was lying in the river off what is called the Ermine Stairs, Lower East Smithfield, just below St. Katherine Dock entrance—Millwall Dock is about four miles down the river—that would take about two hours.

Re-examined. I can't say that this is the document that was given to me by the lighterman—there is no doubt I received it, but I can't say now who gave it to me.

CHARLES SLACK . I am a lighterman in the service of Messrs. Hill & Sanderson—I daresay this is the book that I signed on 15th September at the C. M. Palmer—it is my signature—there are 364 casks of soda and some alkali—they came out of the C. M, Palmer, and part of it I believe went to the Millwall Dock in Hill & Sanderson's barges, the Jarrow and the Belle—I signed for those on behalf of Messrs. Hill & Sanderson.

FREDERICK GILLBSPIE . The entry in this book is my writing, with the exception of the word "Slack"—there are three lots of soda, consisting of 364 casks—the first lot is 100, marked "F H" with "AC" underneath; the next is "BT," 1 to 132; and the third "AK," 1 to 132—all I know is that they were supposed to be in the steamer C. M. Palmer, and according to the book they were delivered to Hill & Sanderson's craft.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. I wrote this book myself, and have the manifest which I wrote it from—I had no mode of checking the marks or the numbers of the casks, I simply copied from the paper that was handed to me: this is the entry that I made at the time.

Re-examined. I had the original manifest, that is the way-bill of the ship, I have it here now.

BENJAMIN SLADE . I am a lighterman, and live at 4, Fisher's Buildings, Long Lane, Bermondsey—in September last I was in the employ of Messrs. Hill & Sanderson, on board the barge Jarrow—I took some casks from the C. M. Palmer to the Wansbeck, there were something like forty or fifty, I should think—I went with them to the London Docks, and put the Jarrow into Wapping Basin, and left her there with the casks on board—it was on a Saturday night, I don't know the day of the month—about a week after I found the Jarrow lying at Wapping, outside the basin—I was sent there either by Jury or Slack the foreman, I can't say which—there were then sixteen casks on board her—the principal of them were marked "AK"—I could not say that they were all marked that, all that I saw were—I received a landing order similar to this (produced)—I can't say that is the one, I can't say whose writing it is—I took the sixteen casks and delivered the order at South Devon Wharf—it was on a Saturday, to the best of my recollection.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. It was on the Saturday before that I got the casks from the Wansbeck—the barge was about three parts loaded when I got them all in—the barge holds 300 casks or more—I took them

to Wapping—I don't know where they were to go—I did not take these casks to the Wansbeck for the purpose of putting them on board the Wansbeck, but to load more from her, and when I had got them I took them with those I had already got from the. C. M. Palmer, to the Wapping Basin—the Stetson was loading in the Shadwell Basin—that is a part of the London Docks—I had nothing further to do with them then—I did not go with them to the Stetson—I can't say who succeeded me—it was about 12 o'clock on Saturday night when I left them in the Wapping Basin—I don't recollect that I was on the Stetson any night before she sailed.

Re-examined. I never was at the Parana, I heard that she was in Millwall Dock, that is some distance from the London Pocks.

HENRY THOMAS SPURRING . I was mate of the Parana on 16th September last—I am now a master—on 16th September I received some casks of soda on board the Parana, in the Millwall Dock, which came from the C. M. Palmer—I gave a receipt for 340 casks—this is my writing—I had a discussion with Slack, the lighterman, at the time I gave this—the casks were tallied by me as they came in; my tally did not agree with Slack's—this was about 8 o'clock in the evening—I did not myself see them tallied—the vessel was to sail at 3 o'clock the following morning—the casks were put down in the hold directly—I could not get them from the hold or tally them again without losing the tide, and breaking them all up, and I signed this receipt for 340—when we got to New York I did not tally them out—I was present the whole of the time of the discharge—I did not see what numbers there were at New York—I was told by those who did tally them—the American Custom House officer, tallied them out; I was present on board the ship, but I did not tally 'them myself—there was a complaint made by the Custom House officer about the casks—when I returned to London with the vessel, I was directed to go and see Messrs. Hill & Sanderson—they carry on business at 25, Minoing Lane—I saw Mr. Hill—I told him the nature of my visit, in reference to these casks, that they had been short shipped, sixteen, by the Parana, that I was mate of the ship—I told him what voyage it was—he referred to a book, and looked back at the date and found an entry there (a book was here produced)—I saw the entry—I believe this to be the same entry, with the exception of this at the bottom; that I am not certain about—it is "Receipt for 340 and remainder 24 ditto, shipped by Stetson"—I don't remember that addition at the bottom—I can't say whose handwriting that is—I told Mr. Hill that I was very sorry it had taken place, for I should certainly have to pay for them, or else lose my situation—he told me he was very sorry, but he could not help me in any way whatever—that was all the conversation I had with him—he mentioned nothing about the South Devon Wharf (Entry read: "Ex. C. M. Palmer. Tennant, Sons & Co., the Paran A. A T 132. B T 132. ✗100., bracketed together. 364 casks of soda. Receipt for 340, and remaining 24 shipped per J. E. Stetson.") That last line is the part that I have no recollection of seeing—I have no recollection of its being there—I told Mr. Hill I should have to pay For them on account of there being a dispute about them, about the number discharged, sixteen being short—I told him there was a dispute when they were taken, and we made 324 of the number taken in—I said I had given a receipt for 340 on account of the lighterman being so positive that he had them in the barge—when he said he could not assist me I left—it must have been about the 16th November—I returned on the 10th.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. I was first asked to give evidence in this case somewhere about December, I think—I am not positive about the first time I was required to give evidence, I was questioned about the casks in November, when I returned—when I got this answer from Mr. Hill, I went to the office and explained it to them—I was first examined as a witness at the Mansion House, some time last month, I think about the 6th—at the time I signed for the 340 casks the barge was quite empty, that I am sure of; there was nothing left in the barge—I struck out "364" in the receipt and wrote "340" in words as well as in figures—this "340 casks of soda, J. Spurring," is my writing, that was written at the time they were taken in—I believe these crosses across these two figures were there as they are now, but I don't know for certain—I don't believe I struck them out myself—I looked to the second mate or the quartermaster to tell me what the proper tally was; there are both abroad—it is the ordinary course at the water-side if there are any in dispute to sign the receipt, and say so many in dispute—I did not do that, because the lighterman was so positive—he had taken them out of the ship and tallied them into the barge himself, and I had not time to count them over—I wished to sign in that way—I told the lighterman I would sign for them in dispute—but he would not have it that way, he was so positive they were in the ship—a mate does not always do what the lighterman wishes, certainly, but in this case it was on account of his being so positive—in the hurry of shipment we are often obliged to trust to others—I don't know whether the dispute I had was with either of the lightermen who have been examined to-day—I could not recognise the man again if I saw him—I have seen the two Slacks, but I could not tell which presented me with the note; I will not swear it was either—I saw the marks at New York—the deficiency was in the "A K," I don't believe it was in the "B T;" it was in the "A K;" I would not swear to it; I am almost positive it was in the "A K," the others all turned out right; it was the "A K" that was sixteen short; it was not in the "BT;" I am certain positive it was not; I would not swear it, but I know very well it was not in the "B T"—I don't know anybody of the name of Cock—besides the sixteen casks there was no other part of my cargo short, that I am aware of, which ought to have gone by me, and which went by the Stetson—I am not aware that 175 that ought to have gone by me went by the Stetson—the only things short of delivery were the sixteen—I have no idea that any part of the cargo that ought to have gone by me went by the Stetson instead—I am not aware that there is anyone here who can tell you—when Mr. Hill showed me the book at his office he did not ask me what the marks were, nor did I tell him that I did not know—I told him there were sixteen short; I did not refer to marks, neither did he—he did not tell me to go to my broker's and find out the marks—I will distinctly pledge my oath that nothing of the sort passed between us—I was told the marks at the time of the discharge at New York, "A K"—I had no note when I was at Mr. Hill's, of what the marks were, only my memory—I won't swear that I did mention the marks, and I won't swear that I did not—I do not remember any reference being made to my broker—there was no reference whatever made to the broker—only Mr. Hill and myself were present, there was no one else in the office—the conversation did not last more than five minutes, five to seven minutes perhaps—I did not notice the time—it was in the afternoon, after 12 o'clock, I think; it may have been before 12 o'clock, I can't say—there were

no clerks there—Mr. Hill was alone, and as soon as I came up he came in, and then I stated the nature of my visit—no one was present but myself; he shewed me the book; I have already said I have no recollection whether that last line was there at the time or not; I would not swear it was not there.

Re-examined. The last line is written very much smaller than the rest, and in a different hand apparently—the number in dispute between me and the lighterman was sixteen, and sixteen was deficient at New York—I say they were sixteen "A K's."

JOHN TURNBULL . I am clerk to Messrs. Smith, Sandihurst & Co., shipbrokers, 33, Gracechurch Street—they were brokers for Messrs. Malcolmson to the Parana—on 18th September last, I saw the mate's receipt (marked "A") for 340 casks of soda—I have a copy of the marks from the bill of lading—in consequence of something that came to my knowledge on 10th November, I went to the defendant's office in Mincing Lane—I there saw Mr. Sanderson—I said we had received advice from New York that a certain number of casks had been short delivered—I had the letter with me that stated the number of casks, and I read from the letter that there was a certain number of casks short at New York by the Parana—I said that we had not been able to discover what had become of those casks, and as I believed they were the lightermen I should feel obliged if they would give me information about them—he referred to a book, and I went into the inside office, and he said all he could tell me was that they gave a clean receipt to the Newcastle steamer (that is, they had given a receipt for a certain number of casks, and that they were in good order), and they had received a clean receipt from the Parana—that was all he could tell me about it—I said it was rather an unfortunate thing for the mate; as we had not been able to trace anything about it, he would have to pay for them—that was all that passed—the Parana returned to England some little time afterwards, and I wrote to the mate to go and see Hill & Sanderson's—I heard nothing more about the matter until January this year—on 26th January a man named Hall called at our office and gave me certain information, in consequence of which I saw Mr. Robinson, the agent for the owners of the Parana—I went to South Devon wharf, and afterwards to Mr. Bumstead's office—on 30th January I received this memorandum from the defendants. (Read: "Memorandum, 30th January, 1872, from Hill & Sanderson, licensed lightermen, to Messrs. Smith, Sandihurst & Co., Gracechurch Street is the mate of the Parana in town, as we wish to see him about some casks of soda he was short in September last; he came up here about it, and we promised to see after it, and have now discovered the error. H & S.") On the same day that I received that memorandum I called at the defendants' office and saw them both—I had this memorandum in my hand—I said that I had called about that memorandum that they had sent us that day, and I asked them if they could tell me how the error had occurred—I can't say which of them spoke—I rather think I commenced the conversation with Mr. Sanderson—I think he replied to the first question—he said that they were shipping other sodas at the time, the barges that contained the soda going to the Parana had likewise sodas that were going to the J. E. Stetson—I asked where the J. E. Stetson was loaded, and one of them, I can't say which, said at Millwall Dock—I said that I presumed, after they had delivered the sodas for the Stetson and the Parana on board each of the respective boats, that the craft would have been empty—they said "No; we were acting as agents at the time, and there

was some for landing"—I said "Where was it landed?" and, after some hesitation, they said it was landed at South Devon Wharf—I said "Who bought it?"—they said part of it had been bought by Chester & Holland—I did not ask any question about the other part—they said that the sixteen casks had been sold, and had realised about 18l.—I said I should report the conversation to Mr. Robinson, and they said they would send us on an invoice and a cheque for the amount whenever we liked, that is, for the sixteen casks—during the whole of the conversation the name of Bumstead was not mentioned to me—I reported the matter to Mr. Robinson.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. I am sure that the number of casks was alluded to in the last conversation, and the feet that they fetched 18l.—when they talked about Chester & Holland, the number of casks was not mentioned—the number of casks was mentioned when they told me how much they had realised; that was the wind up of the conversation, when they told me they had realised 18l.—it was only at the last conversation that anything was said about the sale of any of them; they then told me that they had realised 18l. by the sixteen casks—I reported that conversation to Mr. Robinson on the same day, 30th January—no application, to my knowledge, has been made either for invoice or cheque—the defendants were summoned before the Lord Mayor some time in April—Mr. Robinson is agent for Malcolmson, brokers, for the Parana line of steamers—Messrs. Malcolmson are not here, to my knowledge—F. W. Cock was the shipper of the soda—he is in London—I have seen him here to-day—I don't know to whom the soda was consigned at New York—all I know is, there was a claim made at New York.

Re-examined. I have not seen Mr. Robinson here, I have seen somebody from his office—I did not reduce to writing my first conversation with Mr. Sanderson; we were in hopes that we might be able to hear something more about it.

FREDERICK CHARLES JURY . I am a lighterman, of 3, Elizabeth Place, Roman Road, Rotherhithe—in September last I was in the employment of Hill & Sanderson, as foreman lighterman—it was my duty to give instructions to the lightermen—I remember the lightering of the soda from the C. M. Palmer—I gave instructions to the Belle and the Jarrow to go to the C. M. Palmer—I make an entry at the time of these transactions, I have the book with me—on the 14th September my entry is "364 casks, C. M. Palmer, to Parana, 'A T,' 1 to 132, 'B T'"—I have not got the numbers of that—I did not enter the number, it runs in a line, altogether 364, "F H, A C, and a cross, Belle and Jarrow craft, part shut out"—I saw the Jarrow when I was rowing about in a skiff looking after the work, in crossing the water from the Parana to the Wansbeck—after that I told the defendants that there were sixteen casks left in the Jarrow at least I said there was some soda—I can't remember what day that was—I won't be positive which defendant I said so to—I think it was Mr. Hill; it was on the Monday—I said some soda was left in the Jarrow belonging to the parcel that should have gone by the Parana—he said that we should let those casks remain there until we saw how the others turned out that we were shipping in the barge that was going to the Stetson—I afterwards asked what should be done with the sixteen casks; I can't say now who I asked, it was either Mr. Hill or Mr. Sanderson, they might, perhaps, both have been present—the answer was that they should be landed at South Devon Wharf—I suggested their being landed at the Old Swan Wharf—I think it was Mr.

Hill who suggested South Devon Wharf—my impression is that both were present—we were landing other goods at Old Swan Wharf at the time—we had landed some at South Devon Wharf on 14th September, out of the Havelock—the sixteen casks out of the Jarrow were landed at South Devon Wharf—this is the landing order I gave to Slade—this memorandum of 30th January (marked D) I believe to be Mr. Hill's writing, also this landing order of 21st September (F)—this delivery order (H) is Mr. Sanderson's, and this invoice (J), also the endorsement on this cheque.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. My entry in this book is dated the 14th, the loading was between the 15th and 16th—375 casks of soda, marked "0 F" were delivered to the Stetson—there was some shut out from the Parana—that went by the Stetson instead; here it is, 175—I did not see them go to the Stetson or to the Parana—these that went to the Stetson went by the Jarrow with the parcel that there was the dispate about—I never saw the marks on the casks—the usual way is this, an order is put on my desk for a number of casks with certain marks on them, and I instruct the men to deliver them—I never told Mr. Hill or Mr. Sanderson that there had been a dispute between the mate of the Parana and some of my men—I did not know it myself, I never heard of any dispute—when I got the receipt from the mate I handed it to my employers on the Monday—I don't know when the Stetson went—at the time I told the defendants about the sixteen casks that still remained in the barge, I told them that I wanted the barge, and I wanted to know what I was to do with the sixteen casks—they have no wharf of their own, to my knowledge—I could not be positive of the date when I told them I wanted the barge, and asked what I was to do with the sixteen casks—it might probably have been on Tuesday or Wednesday; I could not say what day—I did not know at that time whether the Stetson had gone or not—the South Devon Wharf was the nearest wharf to where the barge was lying—a good many chemicals are landed there; it is a public wharf—there was no concealment in the sale of these sixteen casks, not with me, or with anybody else, that I am aware of.

GEORGE JACOBS . I am the clerk to the South Devon Wharf, Wapping—I received this landing order (marked F) on 21st September, I also received the sixteen casks of soda—I wrote on the landing order the number of the casks, and sent to the defendants this landing account (G), it contains the mark, number, and weight of each cask—on 25th September, I received this delivery order (H) for sixteen casks of soda, deliverable to Messrs. D. Bumstead & Co., and in conformity with that order, the sixteen casks were delivered to them.

JOHN BUMSTEAD . I am a member of the firm of Bumstead & Co., salt merchants, 86, Lower Thames Street—on 28th September, our firm received from the defendants the delivery order, marked (H), for sixteen casks of soda, the invoice would not come till the next day—this is the sold, note—I think it is Mr. Sanderson's writing—I paid by cheque 18l. odd—I negotiated for the sale with Sanderson.

Cross-examined. 18l. was the proper price for the soda at that time—since then there has been some change in price—it has gone down and up again, and gone down again since.

Fourteen witnesses deposed to the good character of the prisoners.

GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of their previous good character, Six Months' Imprisonment each.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday and Friday, May 9th and 10th, 1872.

Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-421

421. EDMUND PITHER was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury on a trial in the Court of Common Pleas.

MR. LOPEZ, Q.C., with MESSRS. POLAND and J. C. CARTER, conducted the Prosecution; MR. STRAIGHT defended.

In this case the Jury, being unable to agree, were discharged without giving any verdict, and the trial was postponed till next Session.

FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, April 9th, 1872.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-422

422. WALTER HARVEY (25) , PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously forging and uttering an order for the delivery of cloth, also two other like orders, with intent to defraud— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-423

423. EDWARD ROBERTS (17) , Robbery on William Seeker, and stealing from his person 3s., his property.

MR. BRINDLEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM SECKER . I am a waiter, and live at 31, Hermes Street, Pentonville—on 1st May, about 12.30 a.m., I was between the Angel and Penton Street, going home—four men set upon me and rifled my pockets—I kept my hand in one pocket—I lost 3s., I called "Police!"—the police caught the prisoner, and I recognised him as the one in front of me who knocked me down—I cannot tell which of them took the money—they ran away, and the prisoner was brought back by two policemen—I knew him by his face, he was close to me.

Prisoner. I am guilty of being with the others but I did not touch you, and when they ran away I ran away. Witness. You were right in front of me, and you all put hands on me.

HUGH HART (Policeman G 130.) I was on duty in Claremont Square, and saw the prisoner running—he saw me, and turned back into Pentonville Road—I pursued him; he was stopped by three men, and I took him to the prosecutor, who was lying on the pavement with his right-hand trowsers pocket turned inside out—he charged the prisoner.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent of touching the money.

GUILTY . He was further charged with having been convicted at Clerkenwell, in May, 1871, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Two Years' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-424

424. HENRY CANNON (25), and CHARLES COLLARD (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Trusson, and stealing therein two boxes of cigars and other articles, his property.

MR. A. B. KELLEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN TRUSSON . I keep the Bricklayer's Arms, Chelsea—on Sunday morning, 7th April, I was aroused by a policeman about 3 o'clock—I had closed the house at 11 o'clock, and made every thing fast—I found all the pulls of the beer engine part of the way down—I missed two boxes of cigars, some tobacco, some glasses, a tea canister, two bottles of cordial, two pictures, and a beer can—I found the back window partly open—I saw the beer can in the hands of the police—it has my name on it—I have seen the prisoners in my house.

Cannon. Q. How long have you known me? A. I have seen you backwards

and forwards in my house for twelve months—I never trusted you with a beer score—you have not used my house since last summer, because I would not allow you to come in.

CHARLES TURNER (Policeman T 275). On this Sunday morning, at a few minutes past 3 o'clock, I was on duty, and saw the two prisoners, and a man not in custody—Collard had this can, full of beer—they went into No. 35, where Collard lives—there had been an altercation in the garden, and Collard shammed drunkenness and fell down, and Cannon pulled him into the house—I said "Where did you get this beer?"—he said "From my mate's house"—the other man escaped—I took the prisoners, and sprang my rattle and got assistance—I then went to the rear of the house, and found it had been broken into—I searched Collard's house, and found a quantity of cigars, this can, these cigar boxes, and other articles, which the prosecutor identifies.

Cannon. Q. Where was I? A. I watched you into the garden and saw you pour the beer down the sink, and throw the can into the water tank—you were sober—I have known you five or six years, not working for your living but knocking about public-houses—you could not have got away from me.

Collard. Q. What did you find in my father's house) A. These cigars, these two boxes in the garden, and the can in the water tank.

Cannon's Defence. I had been to Fulham, and was stopped by a man named Roe, who asked me to have some beer—I said "I do not mind"—he said "Come up here and have some"—he gave me a can and the policeman came up; the man ran away, and I accidentally fell.

Collard's Defence. Cannon broke the House open, and William brought the pictures out, I had nothing to do with it.

CANNON.*— GUILTY .— Eighteen, Months' Imprisonment.

COLLARD. — Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-425

425. ALFRED BOLDING and DAVID DILLEY, Unlawfully assaulting Julia Frances Andrews, with intent to ravish her. Second Count.—For a common assault.

MR. HUMPHREYS conducted the Prosecution; and MR. F. H. LIWIS the Defence.

GUILTY of an indecent assault. Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-426

426. WILLIAM TILFORD, ROBERT BIGGS, ROBERT CALLARD , and GEORGE ROFF, Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Poole, with intent to steal, to which CALLARD and ROFF PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. MEAD conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM POOLS . I am clicker, of 51, Banner Street, St. Luke's—it is my dwelling-house—on 4th May I closed the house, left it all secure, and. retired about twenty minutes to 1 o'clock—I was aroused about 4.15 by the policeman, went into the kitchen and found part of the window entirely taken out and set down by the washhandstand—persons must have been in the kitchen to place it there—the grating was lying outside on the stones, it was a fixture.

STEPHEN MARONEY (Policeman G 193). On Saturday, 4th May, at 10.30, I was in Banner Street, St. Luke's, and saw the prisoners—I ordered them away, and they left—between then and 2 o'clock on Sunday morning I saw them several times together—about 2 o'clock I saw Biggs in Coleman Street, close to a hoarding enclosing some ruins at the back of Mr. Poole's permises—

on seeing me he walked rapidly away—I got on the hoarding, looked over, and saw Roff and Callard; one of them was in the act of dropping from a workshop at the back of No. 50—I got assistance, and saw the four prisoners close to the hoarding together—on seeing us they ran away into Whitecross Street, and through several courts into Banner Street—they were captured, and I asked them what they were doing over the hoarding—Roff and Callard said "Nothing;" they were going to Victoria Park to have a wash—Callard attempted to make away with this jemmy (produced)—no one else was in the street—I found a knife on Roff and a box of matches on Callard—the sash-line was cut by a knife—I went back to No. 50, and saw a gladder placed against a workshop next door—I knocked at the prosecutor's door, and he let me in—I found a mark on the sash exactly corresponding with this jemmy—the grating had been removed and laid on the stones, and the window-sash had been removed and placed inside—I was in Gloucester Square, where Tilford lives, and he said to his sister that he was going to Victoria Park—she said "Don't go with them, they are a bad lot;" but he took no notice of what she said, and went with them.

Tilford, I was not with them at all; I was with my sister and another young man and woman. We met Callard and Roff, who said they were going to have a wash, and that if I would be at Banner Street they would be there in a quarter of an hour; we waited three-quarters of an hour, but did not see them; but when we went on we saw them, and four policemen came and took us to the station.


Roff was further charged with a former conviction at Clerkenwell.

ALFRED WHITE . I know Boff—I was present at Middlesex Sessions when he was convicted on 24th April, 1871, and saw him almost every day in the prison until he was discharged.

Roff. I am sure I never was in prison before. Witness. You have an anchor and a "J" on your right arm, And there is your photograph (produced). The prisoner's right arm was examined, and there was an anchor and a "J" on it.

ROFF—GUILTY**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

CALLARD— Twelve Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-427

427. WILLIAM TILFORD and ROBERT BIGGS were again indicted for stealing a rabbit, the property of Henry Byrne; upon which MR. MEAD offered no evidence. NOT GUILTY .

Reference Number: t18720506-428

428. JOHN GEORGE BLAND (38), and JOHN HEWITT RAINCOCK (31) , Unlawfully obtaining money, of William Gould and others, by false pretences.

MESSRS. BESLEY and A. B. KELLEY conducted the Prosecution; and MR. MEAD the Defence.

No evidence was offered against


ALFRED GARRETT . I am clerk to Greenock, Allen, & Co., solicitors—this cheque of 21st June is drawn by Bland in favour of Raincock for 5l.—I produce another cheque for 5l. 10s., drawn by Bland on 22nd June in favour of Raincock—both cheques are marked "N. S."—one of them came to us through Mr. Potter, of Throgmorton Street, a client, and the other from Mr. Small, in the same way—we received payment for the 5l. 10s. cheque somewhere about 17th July—Mr. Small's cheque is not paid, so far as I know.

Cross-examined. Mr. Greenock, one of the members of the firm, gave me the cheque—I do not know the writing of the cheque, I merely produce it.

WILLIAM GOULD . I keep the Wheatsheaf, Hand Court, Holborn—Raincock brought me this cheque for 6l. in July last, and I gave him the money for it—it was passed through my banker and came back dishonoured—I went to 2, Great James Street, Bedford Row, but Bland was not there—I wrote a letter to him, and received this reply (produced)—I do not know his writing—I have not had any conversation with him on the subject of that letter.

CHARLES HUNT . I am a clerk at the London and County Bank—I know Bland's writing from the cheques we have paid.

Cross-examined. I do not pay cheques—I am chief ledger-keeper—I have never seen him write, but by comparison with his signature this is the same—I did not see him write the signature.

Re-examined. I did not know him personally when he was in the firm of Gaskell & Bland—I cannot say that I have seen him at the bank—I have no knowledge of his writing, except from the signature book.

JOHN WHITEHEAD . I know Bland, and have had transactions with him—I am not acquainted with his writing further than that he wrote a cheque in my presence—I have not compared the two signatures yet. (MR. MEAD objected to the witness comparing the signatures, he not being an expert. MR. BESLEY contended that it was admissible, and referred to 28 Victoria, c. 18. THE COURT having great doubt upon the point, MR. BESLEY proceeded without proving the letter)—I did not see Bland in reference to the letter.

ALBERT HARRIS . I am a cashier in the Metropolitan Bank, and am acquainted with Bland's writing.

MR. MEAD. Q. Have you ever seen him write? A. I cannot say that I have, but I have seen cheques in the bank bearing the name of Bland, and I daresay I have seen him write—I did not see him write this signature.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Have you had conversations with him in reference to his cheques? A. I cannot say that I have, but I have Been him come into the bank, and have paid him money on his own cheques—the signature to this letter is not so good as his was sometimes, but I believe it to be the same, and I believe all these documents (produced) to be signed by him (Letter read: "To William Gould, Esq. August 19. Dear Sir,—lam sorry there should have been any unpleasantness in reference to my cheque, but promise faithfully to be with you by 4 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon, and take the cheque up. Yours faithfully, J. G. Bland.)

WILLIAM GOULD (re-examined.) He did not call on the Wednesday at 4 o'clock, and I have not had any money—I parted with it on the faith of it being a good cheque.

Cross-examined. I did not know Bland: I knew Raincock—I would not have parted with my money to anybody who I did not know, unless he gave me a reference—I cashed it for Raincock—I did not know Bland—I would not have parted with the money without the cheque.

COURT. Q. Suppose Raincock had brought you a cheque signed "John Smith," you would have given him the money. A. Yes.

FRANCES MARY BUNYER . I am proprietor of the Old Bell, Holborn—on July 28 Raincock, who was a customer of the house, brought me this cheque on the Metropolitan Bank for 6l., signed "J. G. Bland," and I gave him the money for it—it being on a printed form influenced me to a certain extent in parting with my money.

COURT. Q. If you had a printed cheque signed "Jeremy Diddler," would you have given the money? A. No; but I would if it had been signed

" John Smith"—I would not have paid any money without a printed order on a bank.

Cross-examined. I suppose I had Raincock's signature—I do not remember seeing him sign it on the back—I would not have given the money to a perfect stranger who brought me that paper.

HENRY RAINCOCK . I am a cousin of the prisoner Raincock, and am a stockbroker at 7, Token house Yard—I do not know where he is now—I have not seen him since he left this court—I cashed this cheque for five guineas (produced) on 5th August for my cousin—I would not have parted with my money without any cheque—it has never been paid—I did not see Bland about it—I communicated with him, and received these two letters. (The first letter was signed "J. 0. Bland," and dated August 11th, 1871, and stated: "I fully anticipated that a certain sum would have been paid in, but have been disappointed. Kindly hold it over for a few days, when I will call and take it up." The second was dated August 21st, from J. G. Bland to H. Raincock, Esq: "Dear Sir—I feel it is impossible to keep the appointment made, but will see you and clear up—say Thursday. In the meantime, I ask for your forbearance.") My cousin was only connected with Bland as a clerk.

Cross-examined. If my cousin had brought me a cheque signed "George Sidney," I would have given him the money for it, but not if a perfect stranger brought it.

Re-examined. I would not have parted with my money on anything but a cheque—I would not have parted with it if my cousin gave me his I O U.

HORACE POTTER . I keep the Warnford Chop House, Warnford Court—I received this cheque of 22nd June for 5l. 10s. from a man named Small, and paid it into my bank—it was returned, and I saw Bland about it—I found in his outer office Raincock, who I knew some years previously, but had lost sight of him for some time—I said "You need not detain me; you know something about my business"—he introduced me to Bland, and I told him I had got a cheque dishonoured from the Metropolitan Bank—he said that he had been out of town some time, and his clerk, or manager, had not paid money in, as he should have done—I said "What do you intend to do?"—he said "I shall have payments in a few days, and I will send my clerk round and settle with you"—I have been paid since through my attorney.

JOHN H. MERRY WEATHER . I am an architect—I cashed this cheque for 6l. 5s., signed "Bland"—I afterwards had a conversation with Bland—it is a long time ago, but the effect was that if I withheld it a short time I should be paid, and that I should receive something on account on the following Saturday—it has not been paid.

WILLAM COOPER . I keep the Rugby Tavern, St. James's Street—on 15th August I cashed this cheque for 5l. for Bland—I paid it into my banker's, and it was returned—I saw Bland afterwards, and had several letters from him—I went to his office, and he said that he was not aware that there was an overdraw—he gave me something on account, and on the faith of a bill which he wished me to discount, I returned the cheque to him—the whole 5l. is owing to me now.

Cross-examined. I gave him 5l. for the cheque, and he gave me a portion of it back; I am not exactly certain how much—he did not give me a bill for the cheque, but he wanted me to discount a bill.

J. WHITEHEAD (re-examined.) I cashed a cheque for Mr. Bland for

10l. 18s. 6d.—this is it, he wrote it and signed it in my presence, and I handed him the money—I said "Is this cheque good?"—he said "Yes, it will be met"—he came on the Monday morning and gave me 5l. to stop the cheque, and promised to pay the rest in the evening.

Cross-examined. I got the money from someone else—I was promised 10s. commission, but did not get it.

JOHN WOODGATE . I am a cheesemonger, of Lamb's Conduit Street—I received this cheque for 10l. 18s. 6d. from Mr. Whitbread, and gave him the money for it—Bland afterwards called on me and apologised for not paying me the balance, and I received letters from him.

CHARLES HUNT (re-examined.) Bland had no account at our bank, but Bland & Gaskell had; the book in which it is entered is at the bank—there was another account of Bland, Gaskell & Co.; I know that by looking at the books—being chief ledger-keeper I know that that account is closed—the book is not in my writing, I do not make entries in it—the last cheque from that firm, closing the account, was in March, 1871—there was never an account in the name of Bland, singly, and no cheques signed Bland would be paid—these three cheques, 10l. 18s. 6d., 6l. 17s., and 4l. 4s., belong to the last cheque-book of a hundred cheques issued in 1869.

Cross-examined. I know there is no account in the name of Bland, from having searched through our signature book—no one keeps that book; it is kept in the manager's room, where customers are introduced—I do not see customers when they come to open an account—I have looked through the ledger, and find no account in the name of Bland.

ALFRID ALDRED . I keep the George public-house, Liverpool Road—I received this cheque for 4l. 4s., dated December 15th, 1871, from Mr. Jackson, and cashed it for him—Bland wrote me several letters, called on me after, and asked me to hold it over for another week, as he was in difficulties—it has not been paid.

ROBERT COOK JACKSON . I live at King Edward Street—Bland called on me one evening, and asked me if I could get a little cheque cashed—I was in a great hurry, and got it cashed by Mr. Aldred, and gave Bland the money, 4l. 4s.—I said something like "I need scarcely say it is all right?" and what he said induced me to get it cashed; it was to the effect that it was all right.

RICHARD HENRY JACKSON . I cashed this cheque for 4l. 4s. for Mr. Aldred—I do not know Bland—I cashed it on Aldred's endorsement.

ALBERT HARRIS (re-examined.) Bland has an account at the Metropolitan Bank—it was opened on 20th March, 1868—a sum of 1s. 8d. was standing to the account for some months, and it was transferred to the petty balance account, and the account was closed—this is the pass-book—I do not keep it; it is a copy of the ledger, made out by the chief clerk—Bland has had it in his possession over and over again, but I did not get it from him; I got it from the bank—the 1s. 8d. is at the bank now, and he can have it—I have refused cheques of the prisoner's, but I cannot say on what dates—I know perfectly well they have been refused—I have now referred to a memorandum, and can say that we returned his cheques several times between January and August, 1871—I have referred to a book in which entries are made by myself and others, and I have personally, as cashier, refused his cheques; but I cannot say the earliest date—the bank refused his cheques for nine months after he paid in last.

JAMBS MCDOUGAL . I am a sadler—I let premises to the prisoner at

17, Finsbury Pavement, in February, 1871, and he remained till the end of July or the beginning of August—it was my place of business—he was there daily I believe, but there was a private entrance—he left in August—I received no cheques from him.

HUGH WILLIAM JAMESON . I am cashier at the Central Bank of London, Cornhill—this cheque is on one of our forms, in favour of John George Bland for 5l. to himself, on 15th August, 1871—we had at that time nothing to his credit, and the cheque was dishonoured. (Notice had been given to the prisoner to produce his pass-book, but MR. MEAD stated that he had not got it.) The entries in the pass-book would be the same as those on this piece of paper, they are both copies of our ledger—I do not make out the pass-book—the last credit was on 20th December, 1870, when 2l. was paid in—that made 2l. 6s. 2d. in his favour—on 22nd December he drew out 2l., leaving 6s . 2d. in his favour—we made a charge, which makes him owe us 2l. 6s.—between that date and 20th August, one cheque, signed by him, was presented at our bank—I know of no other cheque before August that "NS" was put on it at our bank—there was no money there.

WILLIAM GOULD (re-examined.) I served a copy of this notice to produce on the prisoner personally, in his cell at Clerkenwell Police Court.

BLAND— GUILTY .— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Friday, May 10th, 1872.

Before Mr. Justice Byles.

Reference Number: t18720506-429

429. FREDERICK JAMES (39), was indicted for the wilful murder of Charles Starkie; he was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MESSRS. POLAND and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution; MR. DIGBY SEYMOUR, Q.C., and MR. STRAIGHT the Defence.

WILLIAM DAVIS. I am a surveyor, of Brixton Road, Stratford—I made this ground plan of this house—the other plans before his Lordship and the Jury are copies of it—from the front door to the kitchen door is about 22 ft.; the parlour is 10 ft. 10 1/2 in. by 10 ft. 9 in.; the passage is 3 ft. wide, and the parlour doorway is 4 ft 6 in. high—one of these bullet marks is 5 ft. 9 in., and the other 5 ft. 6 in. from the passage floor—the higher mark is towards the street door—I have drawn a section at the side, showing the parlour and the doorway and the position of the bullets—the parlour door is 2 ft. 8 in. from the street door, so that you could almost step from the street door into the parlour by taking a turn round—there were two marks on the wall of the passage opposite the parlour door, exactly as they are marked here—the passage ceiling is about 8 ft. high.

Cross-examined. The parlour door opens inwards from the jamb, further from the street door; the look is towards the street, and the hinges towards the kitchen—there was a table in the parlour.

ANNIE JAMES . I live at 103, Cumberland Street—the prisoner is my brother—he carries on business there as a machine-sewer for the boot and shoe trade, sewing the soles into the uppers by a machine—Starkie, the deceased, was in the habit of bringing work for me and the men to sew, and at that time he came from Bamberger's, a manufactory in Great Cambridge Street—he has not been coming very long, perhaps twelve months

—on Tuesday, 2nd April, when the two workmen were at tea in the work men's room behind the parlour, Starkie came—5 o'clock is the usual tea hour—there are folding doors between the parlour and the workmen's room, but they are always kept locked—the parlour is the room where my brother used to sleep, and to make out bills—he was there that afternoon, making out bills, and I called him to his tea as Starkie came in—Starkie brought two pairs of boots, and said "I want these sewn"—my brother told him he could not sew them until they had had their tea—he said he would wait, he would not go without them—my brother said that there was work to be sewn that was brought there before he came—my brother then came into the kitchen, where I had got the tea ready for him—he sat down to tea, but he did not finish it; I do not think he had any; he Said "I will finish the bills you called me from"—Starkie followed him to the parlour door, calling him vile names—he said he was a thief, and he did not like him—he said "James, yon b—shit, I will try and do you all the harm I can; I will try and take Bamberger's work away from you; and he called him a b—villain, and lots more that I could not hear exactly; and the prisoner kept telling him to go—he said I shan't; I won't" and then I heard the parlour door close; the door out of the parlour into the passage, as if my brother was trying to shut him out—then there was a report of fire-arms, and I saw the deceased leaning in the parlour door, where my brother was, like this, as if he was putting his head round and taunting him, with his back towards the street—the door was open then, but I did not see it opened—I could not see it where I was, but it must have been open, because he was putting his head in at the doorway—he was loaning in the doorway when I heard the shots—I heard three shots, but I missed him from the doorway previous to the third shot—the whole thing did not take very long; it might have taken ten minutes from the beginning, when I saw him at the parlour door to the time the shots were fired—I do not mean the whole occurrence; of course it took some time to quarrel—I may be mistaken; I said ten minutes between each shot, but it was not so, it was almost momentary; it was very quickly; I was very excited, the man frightened me by using abusive language—it was about two minutes from the first to the second shot, not any longer, and the third followed very quickly—I heard a scuffle before the third shot—I did not see the man leaning against the doorway when the third shot was fired; I lost sight of him, and I heard him say "Take that, you b—shit"—after the third shot, I saw him fall at the parlour doorway, with his head outside the street doorway, and his body partly in the passage—the street door if very near the parlour, and it was open—the doctors and the police then came in—my brother kept a revolver down in that room; it was under his pillow at night, and on the table or sideboard during the day—I cannot say whether it was loaded.

Cross-examined. He kept 295l. in the house, because he was afraid of the banks; and there had been attempts at robbery—the revolver was kept under his pillow at night, but he used to remove it in the morning, that I might not be alarmed by it, as I made his bed—he would put it on the sideboard or table close at hand—the room is very small—it was not so far as a foot from the table where he was making out his bill—before my brother went, into the room where the men were having their tea I heard a loud talking—I think the man wanted the work done—he was abusive, because he wanted his work; and then my brother went into the room to

him—Starkie refused to leave; my brother asked him to leave before he went into the kitchen to me—he asked him I think more than once, and Starkie said "I shan't"—my brother said "Don't make a noise; let the men have their tea in peace; how would you like to be disturbed while you were having your tea?"—he spoke very quietly, and Starkie said "Don't be so d—d independent about it, you will lose it soon enough; I will get it from you, if I can; I will ruin you"—that was before my brother came into the kitchen—he then came into the kitchen, leaving Starkie there, because he wanted him to go; but before he left the men's room, I heard him once more ask the man to go—as my brother left the men's room, Starkie seemed to follow him, taunting him about his independence—he did not come on as far as the kitchen; he stood there, and my brother came on into the kitchen, and left him—I said that, if I were he I would not go into the room while that man was there; and he said that he would go into the parlour and finish the bill he was making out—Starkie had gone back to the work-room—I said that from what I saw of Starkie he seemed to be so frightfully excited, as if he was mad—as my brother left the kitchen I heard loud talking, and saw the man follow him up as he went towards the parlour—I can't say whether my brother went into the work-room from the passage, because the parlour doorway is inside, but the workshop is not—I know he went towards the parlour—he would have to pass Starkie on his way if he was standing in the doorway, because he would have to pass the workshop to get to the parlour—my brother went quietly towards the parlour, without saying anything or looking behind him—I saw him go into the parlour, and heard him close the door, and so far as my brother was concerned, the matter between him and the deceased was at an end—that was what he wanted—I then heard the words I repeated before—the deceased was leaning in the parlour doorway after that, as if he was putting his head in and taunting him—I did not see the door open, but I saw him there as if he had opened it; he was in a stooping position, taunting him—my brother keeps his money up stairs in the day time, but he always kept his pistol down stairs in that room—as my brother passed on towards the parlour, Starkie called him a b—thief, and a b—rogue, and a b—swine—my brother took no notice, but walked into the parlour, and I heard the door shut—the next thing I saw was Starkie leaning in—he opened the door twice—I heard it shut quick and then opened a second time, and then I saw him leaning—I heard him call him a b—villain, and say that he would do him all the harm he could—I heard him say "Put me out," but what else he said I can't say—I heard my brother tell him to go—after the first shot was fired Starkie laughed loud, and said "Blank cartridge"—I think he said it twice—I then lost sight of him—I then heard a scuffle; it seemed to be in the parlour, as if he rushed in—I then heard the expression "Take that, you b—shit," and then the third shot was fired—I can't say whether it went off by accident or otherwise.

COURT. Q. Who said that? A. The dead man—I am certain of that—he was a tall young man; they say his age was twenty-eight—I never noticed him much, and so many come there.

MR. SEYMOUR. Q. Were you there when the policeman came and saw your brother? A. Yes—my brother said before he left that he never meant to do it, but the man struck him on the shoulder, and the pistol went off in the scuffle; that was when the man went up stairs—the man was dead

at that time—my brother is of a very good-natured disposition, he is a widower with two children—I have lived with him four years, and always found him a kind—hearted, good-natured, and just man.

Re-examined. I may have said more or less in the excitement before the Coroner and Magistrate—the prisoner kept saying this at the door two minutes—from the time Starkie came into the house he was alive about a quarter of an hour.

WILLIAM TRIPP . I live at 22, Sewardstone Road, Victoria Park, and was a workman for the prisoner—on Tuesday evening, 2nd April, About 5 o'clock, I and my fellow-workman, Hannibal, were at tea, in what we call workmen's room—Starkie, who I had only seen once or twice before, came into the room about 5.15—he had two pairs of boots with him that he wanted sewn—he said "Oh, you are at tea, I will wait"—the prisoner followed him into the room, and said "I would rather you would come again when the men have done tea hour; would you like to be annoyed during your tea?"—Mr. James then left the room and returned in two or three minutes, and said "Why don't you go?" and put the two pairs of boots on starkie's arm, saying "I neither want you or your work"—Starkie said "James, you know I don't like you; I have tried to do you all the harm I could; I will try to take Bamberger's work away from you, but I can't, because he won't have them done anywhere else"—Starkie then walked towards the work-room door, and James followed him, and then loud language was used in the passage just outside the work-room door—he said "James, you are a b—rogue, and a b—shit, and a b—swine"—I cannot tell you where they were standing, as I was sitting down at tea, and we remained seated all the time; we did not rouse ourselves—I heard Mr. James walk up the passage, but I did not see him; I thought it was Mr. James—he appeared to go to the street door, but it appears it was to the parlour, and he said "Will you go out of my house?" he said that three times over, and then I heard a report directly after that—the next thing I heard was a clapping of hands, and then the deceased said "You b—fool, they are blank cartridge"—a second report followed very quick after the first—I then rose up to go to the door, and heard a slight scuffle in the passage again the door—I had just got the handle of the tea-room door in my hand and got into the passage when a third shot was fired—the tea-room door was partly closed, I suppose Mr. James half closed it as he walked out—I got into the passage as the body fell half outside the next door and half in the passage—I ran and got the police—when they came the body was not as I left it—I did not go for two or three minutes.

Cross-examined. Just before the third explosion, I heard a voice which I believe was Starkie's, say "There, take that"—I could not see into the passage from my chair, so that I cannot say which way the steps went—after begging Starkie to go, James went out of the work-room, and Starkie followed him; I believe that to be correct—the prisoner is a mild, good-natured man—I never worked for such a master in my life—I am no longer in his service—I have set up in business on my own account.

THOMAS HANNIBAL . I live at 85, Brandon Street, Walworth—I was working for the prisoner on 2nd April, and had done so seven or eight months—I knew Starkie by his coming there once or twice—he came on 2nd April, when Tripp and I were at tea, and brought two pairs of boots to be sewn—we use a sewing machine—they could have been sewn in about three minutes if the two man had been called off and set to work—we are usually

at tea half-an-hour, and we had begun tea a quarter-of-an-hour—there would be fifteen minutes to wait before the three minutes began—he said "Oh, you are at tea"—while he was in the room the prisoner came in and said "We cannot sew your boots while the men are at tea, if you come again after tea you can have the boots"—Starkie said he would wait, and the prisoner said "I had rather you would not wait," and left the room, leaving Starkie there—in about two or three minutes the prisoner returned and said "Starkie, I wish you would go;" and he took the two pair of boots off the mantelshelf, put them on Starkie's arm, and told him he neither wanted him or his work-Starkie said "James, you know I don't like you, and I will try to do you all the harm I can, and I will try to take Bamberger's work away from you, but I cannot or I would not bring it here," and with that they left the room—Tripp and I remained at our tea and saw nothing more—I heard the prisoner say "Will you go?"—Starkie said "James, you are a b—rogue, and a b—swine, and a villain"—the prisoner was halloaing "Will you go out of my house?"—I heard somebody walk up the passage, and then I heard a report, and then a dapping of hands, saying "You b—fool, blank cartridge"—then I heard another report and a shuffling of feet at the end of the passage, and then the words "Take that" and a report—I cannot say positively who it was said "Take that," but it was laid before the third shot was fired.

Cross-examined. It was said at the time I heard the shuffling—the prisoner bears the character of a kind-hearted amiable man among the people who know him.

AMELIA SILBY . I live at 14, Cumberland Street, opposite the prisoner's house—on 2nd April, I was in my kitchen, and heard some shots fired—after the last shot, I saw the flash from the pistol, it appeared to come from the parlour door, and I saw the man fall—I did not see where he stood before he fell, but it appeared as if he must have been standing close to the parlour door—I saw him fall in the passage immediately after—as near as I can tell there were from two to three minutes from the first to the second shot, and the second and third almost immediately followed each other.

FREDERICK WALLACE . I am a general practitioner and have the licence of the College of Physicians—on 2nd April, about 5.30, I was called to the prisoner's house and found the deceased sitting on the threshod of the passage, supported by two men—he was then dead—I had him lifted into the passage and afterwards into the parlour, and saw a bullet mark on the left side of his face, just below the cheek-bone—the man's height was about 5 ft. 9 in., and it was four or five inches from the top of his head—I did not take his measurement—he had an ordinary forehead—I afterwards made a, post-mortem examination by order of the Coroner—I opened the head, the bullet had entered exactly below the cheek-bone, passed through the upper jaw-bone, going straight backwards; it then entered the skull in front of the upper part of the spinal cord, I might say the most important part of the spinal cord, completely smashing it; it then went transversely along the base of the skull; it then, cutting a furrow in the base of the brain, reached the back of the skull on the right side, the lowest part of the occipital bone, which it fractured, and I suppose not having sufficient force to get out through the back of the head, it glanced upwards along the brain till it reached the centre of the head, where I found it—there was a regular furrow where it

had passed—went straight through to the occipital bone and then glanced upwards—that wound would occasion instantaneous death.

EDWARD DUNT (Policeman H 152). On 2nd April, about 5 pm.,—I was on duty in the Hackney Road, in uniform, and heard a report of fire-arms—I saw some men running up Cumberland Street—I went to No. 103 and saw the deceased lying on his back, partly outside, with his legs partly in the door and his head towards the iron-gate—there is one step to the house—we lifted him up and the doctor came up and ordered him inside—I saw the prisoner upstairs, he spoke to me first and said "I give myself into your custody, I know I have done wrong in using fire-arms, I was very much aggravated and fired at the wall twice first, and he laughed at me and said it was only play"—I asked him where the fire-arms were; he said that he looked them up in an iron-safe, and he had got the key—I told him he must come to the station-house—he said "I am aware of that, but allow me to wash myself and put a clean shirt on," which I did in the up stairs room—he said that he should like to ride, I sent for a cab and took him to the station where the inspector saw him—he seemed very sorry for what had happened.

Cross-examined. A charge of wilful murder was made against him—I did not hear him say "Oh, no, it was not wilful"—I was at the station with Inspector Ramsay, but Ramsay was not by when I first spoke to him—I did not hear him say so when he was before Ramsay—he said that he was wrong in using fire-arms, but he fired twice at the wall first—he appeared very sorry.

SAMUEL RAMSAY (Police Inspector N.) I was at the station when the prisoner was brought there—Dunt said in his presence that he had shot a man—I said to the prisoner "I must search you"—he said "I have nothing on me"—I said "What did you do it with?"—he said "With a revolver, and you will find it in a safe at my house"—I found some keys on him, and he pointed to the key which belonged to the safe—he said, two or three times, "I was very much provoked"—I went to the house, opened a safe in the first floor front room with the key, and found this revolver (produced)—it contained three empty cartridges and three full ones, one of which I have had opened—I took it to the station, wrote out the charge "Wilful murder of Charles Starkie, by shooting him through the left cheek with a revolver, at 103, Cumberland Street, Shoreditch," read it over to him, and he said "I did not do it wilfully, he provoked me very much, I told him to go out, I then fired twice at the wall, he then struck me on the shoulder"—he did not say how many times—this is the memorandum I made at the time—I went back to the house and found two marks on the wall which appeared to be made by bullets, as far as I could judge—they were indented, and were directly opposite the parlour door—I searched for the bullets but did not find any—it was a party wall, there was a very small coating of plaster and then bricks—Dr. Wallace gave me this bullet (produced)—I had the pistol examined by Squires, a gunsmith, who is here.

Cross-examined. I saw the table at which the prisoner was writing in the front parlour—you could stand at the passage door and reach the table—it is a small room.

JAMES SQUIRES . I am a gunsmith, of 72, Kingsland Road—Inspector Ramsay brought me this pistol to examine—I found it contained three empty cartridge cases, and three cartridges which contained balls—it is a double-action revolver; by pulling the trigger and firing, it cocks itself

for the next shot; or you may pull the hammer up; you can do it either way—all are not double-action, but this is.

COURT. Q. Would a man know, from the outside of the pistol, what cartridge was in it? A. He would see the bullets—if a man took it up, and some chambers were loaded and some not, he could be certain whether the first shot he fired was from a loaded chamber, he could see that it was loaded—it does not require to be cocked to go off, pulling the trigger is enough.

DR. WALLACE (re-examined). The bullet produced is the one I gave to Ramsay.

MR. SEYMOUR contended that there was sufficient provocation to reduce the offence to manslaughter; for although no words would be provocation sufficient, yet as a scuffle was heard before the third shot, and as the prisoner's shoulder was struck, there was evidently more than verbal provocation; and further, that though the deceased entered the workroom lawfully, he entered the parlour unlawfully, and became from that time a trespasser, which would also reduce the offence to manslaughter. (See "Reg. v. Smith" and "Reg. v. Sherwood," Archbold, p. 333; "Reg. v. Harewitz," Hale's Pleas of the Crown, p. 474; also Arohbold, p. 635.) MR. POLAND contended that as the prisoner was not defending his possessions, even if the deceased insisted on remaining in the room, he was not justified in using a deadly weapon towards him, and that no words, threats, or gestures would be sufficient provocation for the use of it. MR. JUSTICE BYLES considered that if the third shot was fired after a threat by the deceased, and during a scuffle or struggle provoked by the deceased, the crime would be manslaughter, and not murder, and left it to the Jury to say whether the prisoner aimed at the deceased or not.

GUILTY of manslaughter. The Jury considered that the prisoner did not take aim at the deceased. Twelve Months' Imprisonment.


Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-430

430. JOSEPH WILLMOTT (43), was indicted for that he, having unlawfully erected a certain obstruction on the banks of the Thames, within the jurisdiction of the Essex Commissioners of Sewers, did assault and obstruct Henry Carter and others in the execution of their duty in removing the same. Five other Counts, varying the form of charge.

THE HON. G. DENMAN, Q.C., with MR. G. BROWN and MR. LE MARCHANT, conducted the Prosecution; and MESSRS. BESLEY and TINDAL ATKINSON the Defence.

HENRY SHEKELL HAYNES . I am partner to Mr. Clifton, who is clerk to the Commissioners of Sewers—I produce the last Commission of 27th April, 1860, under the Great Seal.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I am joint clerk, with Mr. Clifton, to the Magistrates of the Ilford division—there are, I should say, fifty or sixty names mentioned in the Commission—they are not, most of them, Magistrates; I cannot say how many, I daresay a dozen or more—I am not aware that all the Magistrates are put in the Commission; I won't swear they are not—several of the Commissioners have been appointed from time to time since that Commission was issued, but a considerable number of them have never qualified, and therefore are not competent to act—Mr. Howard is one of the Commissioners who surveyed—he has some works

called the City Mills, but I can't tell you in what part they are situate; I believe they are on the River Lea; they are chemical works—I am rather new to this district, and therefore I can't positively state these facts—I have been acting in this prosecution on behalf of my partner, Mr. Clifton, who is in ill health—I can't say when proceedings were commenced against Mr. Willmott; it was before I went into partnership with Mr. Clifton, which was last June—no proceedings were taken in this Court till after that, but the defendant was summoned I know once, and I believe more, before the Commissioners themselves—I think the criminal proceedings were about December or January last—Counsel were instructed to draw the indictment very considerably before that—I can't say how many yards long the indictment is, or how many thousand words it contains—I have never known of any other indictment of this kind—I can't say that I have ever heard of a Commission of Sewers indicting a man for protecting his own property—I have not searched the records of the Commissioners since the time of Henry the Eighth, to know whether they have done it.

Re-examined. I never heard of a man obstructing the Commissioners of Sewers since the time of Henry the Eighth.

WILLAM SMITH . I am clerk to Mr. Clifton, and live at Romford—I produce a presentment of a Jury summoned from the body of the county in August, 1860—I also produce the schedule of lands benefited by the Commission, dated 10th August, 1860—those lands are rateable to the Commission—there is a plan referred to in the schedule—an application was made to the Court by the defendant by letter—this is it. (This was dated 28th December, 1869, from the defendant to Mr. Clifton, forwarding a plan of a proposed wharfage to be made by him at the Bow Bridge Saw Mills, explaining its nature, and requesting that the necessary application be made to the Commissioners to enable him to carry it out.) That application was made to the Commissioners—I am referring to the minute-book of the Commissioners—it is not written by me—it is merely to refresh my memory—I can speak without it—the application was made at the next Court, on 22nd April, 1870—it is mentioned in this book—the Court made an order on that application, which is contained in this order-book. (Read: "That Joseph Willmott forthwith remove the brick wall from, and reinstate the common sewer, and forthwith remove the piling from the river wall, the same having been placed there without the knowledge or consent of the Court of Sewers; and that he also make a proper thoroughfare for the Marsh bailiff and his assistants.") I believe notice was given to the defendant of that order—the facts were again brought before the Commissioners on 28th October—this is the entry: "That Joseph Willmott remove the timber and other impediments on the river wall, and make proper thoroughfare for the Marsh bailiff and his assistants"—There is a further order in the following April—the Courts are generally held half-yearly—there is a report in the minute-book of 3rd March, 1871: "Major Seward and Mr. G. L. Howard having made their report and presented a trespass on the river wall and common sewer, it was proposed by Mr. Howard, seconded by Rev. A. Hill, That instructions be given to Carter, the Marsh bailiff, to remove the obstruction, the work to be carried out under the supervision of the Commissioners' surveyor; 'whereupon the above proposition was put to the meeting and carried unanimously"—then the order of 21st April, 1871, is: "That Joseph Willmott remove the obstructions from

the footway of the river wall, and make proper thoroughfare for the Marsh bailiff"

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Mr. Howard is a Magistrate—I believe I was present on 16th February when Mr. Willmott was before the Magistrate on this charge—Mr. Howard did not sit on the bench—I won't be positive that Mr. Seward was there that day—the Rev. Mr. Hill is a clergyman in an adjoining parish—he has no property near the place that I am aware of—Mr. Nathaniel Beardmore was the surveyor to the Commissioners on 3rd March, 1871—there are two Mr. Beardmores—the elder one was the surveyor to the Commissioners, and is the person referred to in the order of 3rd March—I believe he is also surveyor to the River Lea trustees—I cannot tell you whether Mr. Howard was present on each occasion, the 22nd April, 28th October, and 21st April—he was frequently at the Court—the names appear in the order-book. (The order-book being referred to, Mr. Howard's name appeared on 22nd April and 28th October, 1870, but not 21st April, 1871.) I am not aware of any trace in the minute-book of any answer to Mr. Willmott's letter of 28th December, 1869—I have not the plan referred to in that letter—I believe it was returned, with the line of wharfing as allowed by the Court marked upon it—I saw it before the Commissioners, with the alternative lines that Mr. Beardmore had marked—I can't say that I saw it again—I cannot refer to any notice being taken by direction of the Commissioners in reply to the application of 28th December, 1869. (Upon reference to the minute-book, it appeared that on 27th February, 1870, no business was transacted, there being no quorum; and on 11th April the defendant appeared personally, pursuant to a summons against him for committing a trespass on the Millmeads Common Sewer, when Mr. Benton applied on his behalf for permission to erect a wharf, etc., on the river wall; but as it appeared that he had already commenced the work, the application was ordered to stand over till the next Commission, Mr. Benton, in the meantime, undertaking that nothing further should be done. On 22nd April, 1870, "it was resolved to grant permission for the work to be carried out, provided Mr. Willmott adopted the line of wharfing recommended by the surveyor, tinted red, the work to be done under his superintendence, all costs being borne by the applicant".

Re-examined. I have looked for the plan, but it would be returned to Mr. Willmott; it is not among the records of the Commissioners—the line proposed by Mr. Willmott was considerably outside the line as drawn by Mr. Beardmore.

NATHANIEL BEARDMORE . I am a civil engineer, carrying on business at 30, Great George Street, Westminster—I am surveyor of the Commissioners of Sewers for the Havering level—I recollect generally a presentment by a jury of the lands benefited by the Commission—I have all the plans here—I know the place well—the land occupied by the defendant is shown in this plan, No. 96 in High-meads level—it abuts on the river wall, which abuts on a branch of the Lea—I was present at the Court of 11th April, 1870 when Mr. Willmott's application was made—he sent in a plan—I think the Court referred it to me, and I afterwards made the red line referred to in a subsequent order; that line cut off a considerable portion of what he proposed to do with his wharf, I should think 6 ft.; his projected 6 ft. further out into the river; they were all on the old conservancy wall; although it is called a wall, it is not a vertical wall, it is a bank—his plan would tend considerably to narrow the water way at a place where there is

an angle on the opposite side; but the main reason for the Commissioners to be careful of it was that this river has a drain from the lands coming into it, and any obstructions into the river passed the water back into that sewer—in my judgment, the plan as proposed by him would have been a mischief to the river wall and to the drainage of the marsh generally—the two things are mixed up—permission was given in the way described; he was to be allowed to do it, but in my line, not in his—on 27th January I accompanied Major Seward and Mr. Howard to inspect the grievance—I found that the wharfing had been completed in his fashion instead of the other line; there was a sewer at the back which, was the common sewer, and he had taken possession of half that sewer and built a wall there as a boundary to his premises, and in the other half he had put a pipe, and it was partially filled up, I think; there had been an interference with the common sewer, which is a wide ditch and rather a useful one, because in times of flood it stores the water, and prevents its going over the lands—I think the effect of what he had done was to increase the risk of floods there, but at the same time, subject to the Commissioners' orders, an apparatus, was put in—I did not consent to it as it was done; in fact, it was taking the sewer off his land and putting it on other people's, as it were—the piles of the wharf were not advanced in front of the river wall at the foot, they were at the top; the line was 10 ft. out, I think, and it should have been 4 ft.; it was 6 ft. too far out—in the state in which he had left it, it was not possible for the marsh bailiff to examine the river wall properly; it was all covered with timber and bricks and everything; in fact, there was no passage there at all; he had erected a crane, and I think piles were driven in, and so on, to erect an apparatus for unloading—I was unwell at the time of the assault, and sent my son—afterwards, on 1st June, I had an interview with Mr. Willmott, with the marsh bailiff and Mr. Howard—there was a good deal of conversation about this line, and how little we could take away of the wharf, so as not to destroy good work; but it has never been done to my satisfaction to this day.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. I have been surveyor to the Havering Sewers Commissioners since April, 1860, but I have knows this place a good deal longer than that—I was engineer to the Lea trustees, and I am now consulting engineer, I don't take an active part—I am a salaried officer of the Lea Conservancy Board—I ceased to be the ordinary engineer about the beginning of last year, and a resident engineer was appointed, Mr. Forbes—it must have been before the end of 1869 that Mr. Willmott took his lease of the land where the wharf was erected—I should think I saw him before a single pile was driven in—I daresay I represented myself to him as the engineer to the Lea Conservancy: I told him he had got to write to two parties and that the Commissioners of the Level preferred having the Lea Conservancy approve of the frontage—he was to write to both—this letter which has been read is evidently written by Mr. Willmott—I did not give him the draft of the letter he was to send, I only advised him to make the application—in April, 1870, the Court recommended that I should have a meeting with the parties; the wharf was not made in April, it was in Progress; there have been so many acts and meetings about it; I met Mr. Willmott and his solicitor, or some gentleman acting for him—the piles were not all driven in before the latter end of April; some piles were driven, and if they had acceded to our plan then there would have been nothing to undo—this plan (produced) looks like the place, I find the projection of

the bank marked 10 ft. 6 in., the indentation shown here opposite the lime works is like that of the ordnance map of 1869, or nearly so, as far as this extends—this photograph (produced) appears to me to represent the wharf correctly; it shows the foot of the conservancy wall, some has been cut away and some left; it is well within the exposed ground, it is on the wall, your piling is driven into the conservancy wall, it is the river wall—Mr. Willmott complained that the water from the open ditch percolated through to his sawpits; my impression is that the complaint was that he had put his boiler too low, and at flood time the water swelled up into the boiler—I don't know that I discussed with him whether he should put 12 in. or 9 in. pipes into the ditch; there very likely was a talk about that when he began to build the wall in the ditch, and I very likely said that 9 in. pipes were not big enough; we certainly should not have allowed less than 12 in.; I think he did afterwards put in 12 in. pipes, but not by my consent, because I protested that the whole thing was done entirely without our consent, I had no right to allow such a thing—the wall and the ditch are two different things—I am not aware that the adjoining owner, who alone could be affected by the open ditch, consented to what Mr. Willmott did, and was anxious himself to put it up—I don't know who the adjoining owner is: a tenant of his, Mr. Barber, said he did not object to it, but I have no right to listen to the tenant—I don't know that the owner consented; I don't know that Mr. Barber did; he said he did not mind it, or something of that kind—the ditch is a public sewer, it brings water from above as well as from the two places occupied by Mr. Willmott and Mr. Barber—I certainly am not aware that that ditch has been stopped up for years; the very reverse, it has been open; I have ascertained that as a fact—I did not say that it has had communication with other grounds than Barber's and Willmott's; I think it goes along Mr. Barber's, and I think there are other grounds above Mr. Willmott's, but irrespective of that, it has to take off in flood time water that affects other people above: it is not tidal water, it is dammed up by the tide when it rises—I don't say that the tide rises up to Willmott's wall; it is not above a lock, so as to be unaffected by the tide, it is under high water and it is affected by the tide, and if the trap is left open the tide does go in, but not as flowing: I mean in the cut where the wharf is, it is all tidal, and it is an excessively troublesome thing; if that wharf had any trifling hole in it at any time the tide would go over the land—I have at times seen the water so low that the old piling was seen at the bottom of the river—I should say those old piles were from 2 to 5 feet beyond the new piling, but that is down below, it is not a high erection like this, it was done for a different thing—we wanted it 6 ft. instead of 6 ft. 10 in., and I think there had been a little compromise even then.

Q. Since this alleged interference was committed, in April, 1871, have you not, acting for the Commissioners, agreed that by rounding off the wharf, and putting 12 in. pipes into the ditch, you would be satisfied? A. I think so, by taking the ordinary 30 ft. length, taking off 4 ft. instead of 6 ft.; but that was a conversation, I think, in June last year—it is not within my cognizance that it was put in writing, and that the Commissioners wanted 30l. for costs, and Mr. Willmott only wanted to pay 15l.—I am not aware of that fact—we had a very great deal of discussion—I was most anxious to settle it amicably, and I thought it was settled at that time.

COURT. Q. You consented to an alteration since 1871? A. Yes—those alterations have never been made—the meeting was a meeting of amity,

and I coaxed and tried particularly—there was to be a plate put on the ditch that we might have the power of opening or removing the ditch at any time, for I felt myself, as an engineer, rather at fault whether the ditch should be closed at all on account of the flood—I don't know why the negotiation went off, for the interview came quite to an amicable end, and I thought we should never hear of the matter again.

MR. BESLEY. Q. You were the surveyor directed to supervise what the marsh bailiff did when he went on the land forcibly to destroy the wall? A. I was—I never went on 19th April, I was too unwell to go, but I gave strict directions, both to the marsh bailiff and to my son—I was there by deputy, my son went for me—I think Mr. Willmott afterwards gave the marsh bailiff access, perhaps you had better ask him—I know I was myself very much obstructed by the piles and bricks and mass of things.

Re-examined. There were piles of bricks put on the wall, and a crane and pieces of timber—I could not get through very often—I was willing to allow a certain width of surface coming clown on the river wall, but not so much as he has put—the thing I thought would be right to allow would come further in shore, so that we could get to examine and repair the bottom of the wall; but the great thing was to get a line that would admit of the water going off when in flood, because the lands suffer very much then—the narrowing of that part of the river tends to throw up the water, because the wharfing takes up a space in the river, although it makes what is left stronger—besides being a surveyor, I have been an engineer, man and boy, for forty-five years, almost—in my judgment this was an impediment to the free passage of the water for sewage purposes—the other matter in the ditch was also certainly an impediment, but the Commissioners are bound to suit circumstances, and they allow certain things—they endeavour as well as they can to accommodate individuals in discharging their duties, so long as they do not let them obstruct—the wharf has not been removed, and things remain as they were—then has never been any other wharf except this that the defendant has erected in that part.

HENRY CARTER . I am Marsh bailiff of the Commissioners, and was so at the time these entries were made, in 1870 and 1871—I recollect the presentment of the Marsh Jury on 22nd April, 1870—three trespasses of the defendant were brought before the Marsh Jury, the wharf, the obstruction to inspection by the officers, and the building of the wall in the sewer—I can't say whether I served the order made by the Commissioners upon that, I have served a good many, but I can't say upon what date I served one—I remember the survey by the Commissioners and the engineer in January last, and I remember the order to remove being made on the 3rd of March—I served a notice, and in consequence of the order not being obeyed I went on 19th April to the defendant's premises where this wharf is—I went about 8 o'clock in the morning, and worked till noon—the men who were with me then went away to dinner, on their return a general melee ensued—I had seven men with me—a force of some twenty or thirty persons came and objected to our going on the premises; the defendant was there; he ordered his men to keep us at bay, not to allow us to enter on the premises—they had in their hands such things as you would find in a timber-yard, little bits of timber—I went in and spoke to the defendant, and he told me that he should not allow the men to come on—he knew I was the marsh bailiff, we had had several conversations, I did not attempt

to get my men on; threats were used to the men when they attempted to enter; perhaps that continued a quarter of an hour; the threats were "D—you, you shan't come in"—that was all I heard on that occasion—after a while I took my men away—we went by land that day; next day, the 20th we went again, by a barge, about 8 o'clock or from that to 9 o'clock in the morning—I went in obedience to the order to remove the wharf—we fastened our barge to the timbers of the wharf the time occupied in doing so gave the defendant sufficient time to collect this same mob that we had met the day previous, and a few more added to their numbers; they had things in their hands, one had a handspike which he put within an inch of my nose—the defendant was on the wharf, directing the operations—he said to the man with the handspike "Knock him down," and it was upon that that the man put it at my head—this continued for some few minutes, during which time Mr. Willmott ordered the people to fetch hammers and chisels, and they attempted to cut our fastenings from the wharf, and then I thought it was time to retire, and I gave orders to go away—I could not enumerate the whole of the threats—I think I have already used one, "Knock his d—head off"—in consequence of this opposition I could not do what I was sent to do; nor was I able to inspect the wall; the timber had been piled on the footway of the wall—on 21st April I reported to the Court what had happened.

Cross-examined. I can't tell what tools we took with us on the 19th—we carried such things as were necessary to remove a wharf, an axe, a saw, chisels, spades, I don't know how many more, crow bars most likely—we dug out the earth at the corner of the wharf, we worked till noon—we removed the ground, and the planking at the back of the ground, so that it was brought into the condition represented in this photograph (produced) we worked from 8 o'clock till 12, or thereabouts—I think I called at the police-station in the morning and asked for assistance—they did not go with me, the policeman came on the ground possibly after we had been there an hour, and looked on for another hour and then went away—we then went to dinner, and when we came back Mr. Willmott said we should not go upon his property; he let me in, but would not let my men in—I don't know how many men he had there, beyond a dozen certainly—I don't remember that there was any policeman there then—next day I took with me one or two more men than the day before—we did not begin to cut away the wharf—I have mentioned about the handspike before to-day—properly built, the wharf would strengthen the bank of the river; it does not now, in as much as the filling in is of a loose nature, and the tide would leak through the wall—I say that the work is not properly done; if it was properly done it would be a positive protection to the bank; the loose portion is at the point where my men were disturbing the wharf—what they did has not loosened the protection of the bank—I say that the putting up of this wharf has facilitated the incursion of the water, in as much as the water would follow the passage of the ties driven through it—the land behind is very nearly as high as the wharf.

Re-examined. Narrowing the water way in the way this is done would, in flood seasons, prevent the water escaping so freely.

COURT. Q. Did you go to this wall that is built across the sewer? A. Yes, and pulled part of it down on the morning of the 19th—it ran along the sewer so as to divide it into two parts, not across it—we were prevented

from pulling the remainder down by the interference of the defendant and his men—12 in. pipes have been put in there, parallel with the wall.

MR. BESLEY. Q. When you went, on the morning of the 19th, you walked freely on to the place? A. We did—we have had keys of the gates since the defendant has had occupation—I have never been denied access—ties have been run from the front line of the bank to the rear—I say a wharf is an improvement, but I don't say that these ties pat through this in an improvement to the bank, on the contrary; a wharf well built is an improvement.

MR. BESLEY submitted that the indictment cold not be sustained, inasmuch as the Commissioners of Sewers had exercised an authority which they did not lawfully possess. The Act of 1868 (31 & 32 Vict. e. 154, which created, the Lea Conservancy Board, had defined their boundaries in section 3. The locus in quo was dearly within the jurisdiction of that body, and they had given no notice to the defendant, or taken any proceedings. Whether the Commissioners of Sewers ever had any powers on or over the bank of the Lea or not, the Conservancy Act of 1868 had repealed all those powers, and vested them in the Conservancy Board, who had made bye-laws for the purpose, He further submitted that, even if that Act did not repeal the former Acts, there was an express exemption of the water in question from the jurisdiction of the Commissioners of Sewers by their own General Act, 3 & 4 Will. IV., c. 22, s 10. With regard to the ditch, he contended that it was not a common sewer within the proper meaning of that term, but a watercourse. There was, therefore, no authority in the marsh bailiff to go upon what was private property, and to resisting him the defendant had committed no offence.

MR. DENMAN contended that the jurisdiction of the Commissioners of Sewers was not ousted by the Lea Conservancy Act; no statutes were held to repeat other statutes unless they were inconsistent with each other, and it perfectly consistent that each of these bodies might have jurisdiction for their own particular purposes, the Sewers Commissioners over the walls and banks of the river, and the Lea Conservancy over the water. As to the ditch, the term "sewer" was not intended to apply to a place through which sewage passed, but to any channel which carried away the flood water. The Commissioners had a dear authority under the statute to prostrate any obstruction, and to take any necessary steps for that purpose; and in resisting, the defendant was liable under this indictment.

MR. DEPUTY RECORDER : I am dearly of opinion that there is no ouster of the jurisdiction of these Commissioners. The objects of the two bodies are entirely deferent; the object of the Conservators is to maintain and improve the navigation of a navigable river, the object of the Commissioners of Sewers, is to maintain the drainage of the district; and unless there is an absolute inconsistency between the two statutes under which they are acting, the two map be construed together, each body discharging under them their own peculiar functions. In this case the Commissioners of Sewers had authority to interfere with a wharf and wall which interrupted and disturbed the efficiency of the rivulet as an open drain to carry off the water. I am, therefore, clearly of opinion that the Commissioners of Sewers have jurisdiction over the locus in quo, and in the exercise of their proper authority they were proceeding to do what they were obstructed in doing. Whether the erection of the wharf was an improvement or not, or whether the Commissioners exercised a right judgment or not, has nothing to do with the question; it is a misdemeanour at common law to obstruct persons having proper authority to remove.

MR. BESLEY proposed to address the Jury, and call evidence upon the point

whether the wharf was "a let or hindrance." THE COURT was of opinion that the presentment of the Marsh Jury precluded him from raising that issue. The Commissioners had no alternative; they were bound by the presentment of the Marsh Jury and the result of their own survey. The facts were all one way; and the case resolved itself into a question of law, which could be settled in the Court of Queen's Bench.

GUILTY .— To enter into his own recognizance in 100l. to appear and receive judgment when called upon.—Points reserved.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-431

431. TIMOTHY WHIFFEN (36), GEORGE HUNT (21), and JOHN WINBURN (30) , Stealing a sack and two bushels of grains, of Alfred Crutcher, the master of Whiffen, to which

WHIFFEN and HUNT PLEADED GUILTY .— Eight Months' Imprisonment each.

MR. F. H. LEWIS offered no evidence against


Reference Number: t18720506-432

432. ROBERT LUXFORD (15), and WILLIAM SLADE (14) , Feloniously setting fire to it stable belonging to Richard Wheatbread, with intent to injure him.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD WHEATBREAD . I am a greengrocer, of Lewisham—I have a small stable 100 yards from my house, in which my horse is kept—I employed Slade to look after my horse—on Saturday morning, the 13th, about 4 o'clock, I went to the stable and found the prisoners both sleeping there—I said nothing to Luxford—I told Slade if I found him sleeping there again I should lock him up—he was not entitled to sleep there—he told me he lodged at a beer-shop—he brought me the padlock key the same evening at 10.30, and told me everything was safe—about 12 o'clock I went to the stable; the padlock was gone, which I had seen safe that morning, and the door was unlocked—the only way of looking the door was by that padlock—there was no one in the stable then, and I tied the door with a chain, and went home—the padlock was unlocked when I saw it on Saturday morning, and anybody might have taken it away—about 8.30 on Sunday morning, I was called by the police, and found the stable on fire, and the horse, which had to be killed afterwards, outside the shop door—I had had a tin can of varnish in the stable for six months—I saw—it last on the Friday morning, about ten yards from the stable, and after the stable was burnt down I found the can in the place where the horse had stood, right in the middle—about three-quarters of an hour after the fire was out, the constable brought the two prisoners to me—I asked them what business they had there—Slade said that they had been there sleeping, and ran away—I gave them in charge.

Luxford. We were in the stable asleep, and the stable was on fire, and we ran away.

Slade. I told him when I brought the key that there was no look to lock it, and he said "Never mind, we shall find it in the morning." I slept there because it was too late to go home.

ARTHUR AMOS (Policeman P 397). On Sunday night, the 14th, about 3.30, I was on duty in Lewisham, and saw flames issuing from the Grove—I went there, and found Wheatbread's horse running down the road, and the stable on fire—a can of oil was burning in the middle of the stable—in a minute or two Coxedge came up—the stable was quite burnt down.

Slade. There was no oil in the can a day or two before, because the horse knocked it over and laid in it.

RICHARD WHEATBREAD (re-examined). The horse had not knocked over the can that I know of—there had been oil in it for a long time, but I had not seen it for a long time.

WILLIAM COXEDGE (Policeman R 381). About 3.30 on Sunday morning I saw the stable on fire and the hone outside Wheatbread's house, burnt a good deal about the neck, legs, and head—I went on to the heath, which is about three-quarters of a mile from the stable, and met the prisoners on the road—Slade was without a cap—I asked them how they accounted for being there at that time of morning—Slade said that they were going home—I asked him where his cap was—he said he had lost it coming along the road—I told them I did not feel satisfied with their answers, and should take them on suspicion of setting fire to a stable at Lewisham—going along Slade said that they were sleeping there and were awakened by the fire and ran away.

Luxford's Defence. We were in the stable, and it was on fire, and we woke up and ran away.

Slade's Defence. The horse had nothing to lay on for three nights, and I asked him if I should get some shavings.

R. WHEATBREAD (re-examined.)The horse had straw to lay on—instead of the horse having shavings to lay on it was the boy—the shavings were burnt, and every thing in the stable.


Reference Number: t18720506-433

433. CECILIA HURRY (28), Feloniously killing and slaying George Hurry.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. METCALFS, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.


Reference Number: t18720506-434

434. GEORGE HURRY (28) , Feloniously killing and slaying Cecilia Hurry, upon which no evidence was offered.


Reference Number: t18720506-435

435. The said GEORGE HURRY and CECILIA HURRY were again indicted for unlawfully neglecting to provide medical aid to Cecilia Hurry, whereby her life was endangered.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution;

MR. BAKER appeared to watch the case for the prisoner's friends, the prisoners

declining any legal assistance.

CHARLES JOSEPH CARTER . I am Coroner for the County of Kent—I held an enquiry into the death of Cecilia and George Hurry—on the inquiry into the death of Cecilia Hurry the prisoners were sworn, and made statements which I took down in writing, and which appear on the depositions—George Hurry was the first witness called to identify the deceased before any imputation was made—he signed his depositions—this is it: "George Hurry, of Plumstead, engine driver, says the deceased was my daughter, Cecilia Hurry, aged seven years; she died on 8th April, 1872, she was taken ill about 28th March, last; on 30th March it turned to small pox. I called in no medical advice, it is contrary to my creed; deceased had not been vaccinated; I received notice to have it done, but as the authorities did not trouble me I did not trouble them. I have four other children, only one vaccinated. The elder attended my child, and annointed it with oil, and laid hands on it, and prayed over it; I belong to the "Peculiar People."

The reason that I did not call in any medical advice or assistance is because we trust in the Lord for us and for our children. I knew the child was labouring under a very serious illness, of a most dangerous character, but I trust in the Lord for being solely able to save the life of my child. George Hurry"—Cecilia Hurry says:" I am the mother of the deceased, Mrs. Raven told me on the Sunday she thought the child was dying. I did not suggest the propriety of calling in any medical advice, the child had not been vaccinated. I received a notice when it was registered that within three months it must be vaccinated, it was not done"—Second Statement: "Cecilia Hurry voluntarily says, I took my child to be vaccinated on Tuesday, 16th April, and I told Dr. Wise I did not think my child was in a fit state to be vaccinated; he made answer and said he did not think there was anything the matter with it; I said there was, there was a little rash on its fide. I showed Dr. Wise the side, and he said it looked rather suspicious, he told me to take it again in a month; there were only two persons there besides myself. I did not call in any medical assistance, my trust is in the Lord. I had my brethren to lay hands on, and annoint it, in the name of the Lord, and I believe by so doing I confirm the word of God."

Cross-examined. Manslaughter was the voluntary verdict of the Jury, but I did my best to lay down the law—one of the grounds on which I considered the parents responsible was, not that the children had not been vaccinated, that question was not before me or my Jury, but the question was asked whether they had been vaccinated.

MARIA RAVEN . I am the wife of William Raven, a labourer, of Richmond Place, Plumstead—I knew the little boy and girl who are dead—the boy was six months old, and Cecilia was seven years and not quite two months—she had very good health, but was taken ill about 28th March—she lived at home with her parents, who were at home in the house—after three or four days I saw that she had what they call white small-pox, very bad—I had seen several cases of it before—it came out very badly—I attended the child, and was with her night and day, and kept her warm and gave her what nourishment she wanted, arrowroot, and a little very weak brandy—the father and mother knew what was the matter with her—I told them thought it was the small-pox when it was first coining out; they could afterwards sea for themselves what it was—I am one of the "Peculiar People"—I did not suggest to the parents the calling in of a medical man, and no medical man was called in—there is in our persuasion a person called an elder; his name is John Vine—he is a labouring man—he saw the child Cecilia from time to time, and laid hands on it in the name of the Lord, and anointed it with oil in the name of the Lord—the child was very bad on Saturday and Sunday, and died on Monday, 8th April—it was not delirious; it was very sensible—an inquest was held after its death, and the father was committed to prison—after that the boy became ill. (THE COURT considered that it was not necessary to enquire into the death of the boy.

Cross-examined. I have seen other cases of small-pox—there have been more cases among people of the world than among the "Peculiar People"—all the cases I have seen have not died—I had it myself, and my son came home with it from his situation—I have seen several cases recover without medical assistance—these children were not vaccinated—every attention was paid to this child—I have been accustomed to nursing.

JOHN VINE . I am a labourer—I saw this girl every day—I know that no

medicines were administered to her, and no medical man was called in—I belong to the "Peculiar People,"

Cross-examined. I did not recommend that a medical man should be called in.

JAMES BERESFORD RILEY , M. R. C. S. I am a general practitioner at Woolwich—I did not see either of these children before their death—I made a post-mortem examination of the body of Cecilia, by the Coroner's order—the proximate cause of death was serous effusion on the surface of the brain—that is the mode in which small-pox very frequently terminates—the fever on the brain was caused by the small-pox—small-pox is a disease amenable to medical remedies—it occasionally yields to them, I think, but it is very difficult to decide where nature is the successful agent or the medical man—in the early stages you treat it as you do all febrile actions, that is, very strong fever—we avoid stimulants, as the brain is very apt to be affected—we apply ice-bags to the head, and share it, and give medicines of a saline character with a view to induce perspiration—in my judgment and from my reading and experience, those medicines are salutary, and tend to the cure of the patient—I am speaking from experience—I have gone into cases of small-pot where there has been very high febrile action, and have been able to trace an effect from the administration of the medicine, a lowering of the fever, which I have attributed to the remedies I have adopted.

Q. Is it your judgment that supposing those remedies had not been administered the patient might not have recovered? A. The tendency of every fever is to get well, but the medical man comes in and assists nature—the main object in small-pox is to check congestion of the brain, and that requires science and skill, and also a knowledge of disease, from which you can predicate results.

Cross-examined. We have no specific for small-pox; no certain remedy—Mr. Marson is at the small-pox hospital—I do not agree with him in his evidence before a committee of the House of Commons, when he says "I fear we have no control over the disease"—I agree with him that there it no specific—I do not agree with him when he says "We have no power whatever in controlling small-pox"—I know Dr. Seton, of the Privy Council—he has written a good deal on small-pox, but I do not know that I should take him as an authority—he has had some experience; if you ask me which portion of his opinions I agree with, I will tell you—I hare heard of Dr. Dixon—I agree with him that "the disease admits of no specific mode of practice"—I do not undertake to say that this child would not have died had I attended it—I do not know the form of small-pox called corymbose, there are new forms getting introduced about every four hours into the profession, and perhaps new modes of treatment—there is scarcely any form of smallpox I am not acquainted with, but I do not know it by that term—the child died from small-pox, from the immediate effect of serous effusion on the brain producing convulsions, not in the girl but in the boy—convulsions are very common in infancy, but death is not very frequently caused by them—congestion or effusion on the brain will undoubtedly produce convulsions, without small-pox—I can swear that the girl died from small-pox—it is very uncommon for parents to neglect to procure medical assistance for their children when ill—I should say that 99 out of every 100 would do so in serious cases—as far as my experience goes, it is only these "Peculiar People" who neglect their duty in that respect—I know nothing about vital

statistics—it is very possible that many hundred thousand die under five years of age—many medical men are in the habit of using oil in febrile cases; I use it very largely myself—I would not attribute to the "Peculiar People" injuring the child by anointing it with oil—I know nothing about the nursing—the child died from a debilitating exhausting disease, and I cannot say whether she was fully nourished—I cannot say whether she had been vaccinated, because the eruption was so thick over the cuticle.

Re-examined. There is no doubt that the child had the small pox—very few specifics for diseases are known—small pox has a specific type of its own, and a general derangement of the system attends it—it is the duty of a medical man to anticipate symptoms, and it is a matter of importance that those symptoms should be taken care of—I believe that the service of a medical man is of high importance.

MR. BAKER. Q. Might not the nurse be as well qualified as a medical man? A. If she had a diploma; I do not think she would have sufficient experience without the diploma.

THE COURT considered that there was no ease against CECILIA HURRY, as she acted under her husbands advice.



The prisoner stated that he and his people had never been satisfied as to what the law on the subject was, but now that they knew it they would submit to it, as they were the last people who would break the laws of their country.— To enter into his own recognizance in 50l. to come up for judgment if called upon.

Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-436

436. WILLIAM COLE (34) , Unlawfully obtaining 1l. 12s., 1l. 10s. 8d., and 1l. 10s., of James McGuinness, by false pretences.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES MCGUINNESS . I am staff-sergeant of pensioners of the Greenwich district—on 11th August, 1870, I enrolled the prisoner—I produce the attestation paper relating to that enrolment, which I filled in from his discharge from the Military Train which he produced; this is it—I wrote across it "Enrolled in the Army Reserve at Deptford, August, 1870"—at the time they are enrolled the discharge is endorsed in red, and given back to them—he signed this attestation paper in my presence—he received his pay up to 31st March, 1872; that was 1l. 12s. when he was enrolled, 1l. 10s. 8d. in October, and 1l. 10s. in January, 1871—he is the man—I was not aware when I enrolled him, that he was already a member of the Army Reserve; he swears to a declaration that he does not belong to the militia or any other force, and has not been already enrolled—I should not have paid him unless I had believed that—the discharge that he handed to me proved that he did not belong to any other department.

Prisoner. I acknowledge belonging to the Greenwich district.

JAMES LOFTS . I am a pensioner, living at 23, St. Alban's Street, Kennington Road—on 28th April, 1870, I was employed at the South London district of the Army Reserve force—this (produced) is the attestation paper of William Cole, who was enrolled on the 28th April, 1870, in my district: I am the attesting witness—the man who came there signed this "William Cole"—I took him to the Kennington Lane Police Station—I afterwards saw the prisoner in April last at the police-station, with several others, and recognised him as the William Cole I had enrolled—the attestation paper would be filled up by a clerk in the office before the prisoner signed it—I

don't know how long he continued to receive pay at the south London district.

Prisoner. Q. At the last examination did you not say that you would not recognize me if you saw me by myself? A. I said that I would rather you were put with some more for me to pick you out, it being two years ago, but as soon as the cell door was opened I knew you directly.

SAMUEL WILLIAMS . I am a staff sergeant in the South London district of the Army Reserve force—I remember William Cole being enrolled there on 28th April, 1870; he afterwards received pay up to 31st March, 1871—I did not see him again after January, 1871, when he received his pay up to March—I did not see him again till I saw him at the Greenwich Police Court—I am not positive of the prisoner being the person: to the best of my opinion he is the man.

Prisoner. Q. Had you not a better opportunity of knowing me than any other person? A. I only saw you about four times, and I see so many—I did not mark your discharge; your height is on the discharge; if there is a difference of half an inch in the two papers I can't account for that.

Re-examined. This attestation paper was filled in by me; I must have got the particulars from the back of his discharge—we did not mark the discharges at that time, it would be given back to him—this is the discharge—the height entered here is 5 ft. 7 1/2 in., and so it is in mine, the other particulars tally.

DANIEL WOODS (Policeman R 346). I took the prisoner into custody on 4th April, at the Pension Office, Greenwich; he was there for the purpose of receiving his pay—I told him he was given into my charge for obtaining various sums of money from McGuinness at the Pension Office—he said he was not the man that received the money.

Prisoner's Defence. When I was discharged there were upwards of 600 men discharged from the same regiment, plenty of those men had been with me for yean and knew my service and everything regarding, me, and they have got my discharge and represented me.

GUILTY Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-437

437. FREDERICK SHORT (18) , Unlawfully and indecently exposing himself.

MR. ST. AUBYN conducted the Prosecution; and MR. BESLEY and MR. STRAIGHT the Defence.


Reference Number: t18720506-438

438. REUBEN OWEN (32) , PLEADED GUILTY to unlawfully obtaining 1l. 13s. 4d. and 1l. 10s., by false pretences, of our Lady the Queen,— Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-439

439. DAVID McCULLOCH (18), ARTHUR EKINS (16), ALFRED KING (17), WILLIAM COLLETT (20), WILLIAM WEEKS (27) , Stealing one gown body, one bow, two petticoats, an egg-boiler, a brooch, and other articles, the property of Walter Frederick Cowan. Second court—Receiving the same.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

DAVID MACEY . I am a corporal of pioneers in the 2nd Battalion 23rd Foot, stationed at Woolwich—in December last I had charge of the regimental baggage-stores of that regiment—I received into store some boxes and cases, the property of Lieutenant Cowan—the store-room where those

Things were kept was on the ground floor of the Infantry Barracks—the door was locked and bolted, and the key was kept in the quartermaster's office on a nail—on 23rd February I went to the store and gave out a portion of the baggage belonging to Mr. Cowan to his servant—I fastened the store up again, and everything was safe then—on 12th March I went to the store again, to give out the remainder of the baggage belonging to Mr. Cowan—I gave out what was in the store—I noticed that several of the boxes had been moved, and a number of small articles, such as ladies' wearing apparel, was lying on the floor—I was not aware whether the servant had been in between the 23rd February and 12th March, and my suspicion was not excited—I did not report the matter—I was afterwards questioned about the stores, and on 19th March I examined them carefully—I found they had been entered by the window—there were marks on the window, which was about 3 ft. from the ground—the window was unfastened, and there were footmarks—the prisoners are drummers attached to the 23rd Regiment, stationed at Woolwich—two of them are in the 21st Regiment, but they are attached to the 23rd.

GEORGE ATTEWILL . I am a sergeant in the 2nd Battalion 23rd Foot—on the morning of 3rd March a soldier brought a blue silk body and a green silk bow to the Orderly Room in the Infantry Barracks, where I was—the adjutant took them from him—I don't know the man who brought them—he brought them in and delivered them as having been found.

MATILDA WALLMAN . I live at John Street, Poplar, and am the wife of Charles Wallman, who is a boatswain—on 9th March McCulloch and Ekins came to my house about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I knew Ekins before—they were in uniform as they are now—Ekins asked whether I could give him a shilling or two to go down home—I said "Yes," and he said "Can I leave this bundle till Tuesday?"—I said "Yes"—he put down a bundle, and said he would call for it some time the following week—I gave him two shillings at first, and then I asked him if it was sufficient, and gave him four shillings more—they both left then—McCulloch was there all the time, and heard what was said—I opened the bundle on the Sunday morning—they did not call for it again, and on 30th March I delivered it up to Sergeant Hill, of the Royal Artillery—it contained two petticoats, a dress, a satin cape, and a silver brooch—the two prisoners never called, but Ekins wrote to me and said he was in the hospital with a bad foot—I have not got the letter.

Ekins. Did I ask you to give me six shillings on the parcel, or give it me to take me home? Witness. You asked me to give it to you to take you home.

SARAH ANN LARGE . I am the wife of Thomas Nathaniel Large, and keep the Albert Victor, in James Street, Old Kent Road—the prisoner Collett is my brother—on Sunday, 17th March, he came to my house with Weeks—they gave me a necklace, a brooch, earrings, sleeve-links, and a cross—they each produced some—I asked them where they got them from, and they said they bought them cheap—they did not say where—Weeks spoke—they were given to me by my brother as a present—I did not give him any money—they came a little before 1 o'clock—on 20th April I gave the things up to Sergeant Hill—he came and spoke to me, and I gave them up—they are produced here to-day—those are the things. HENRY CHARLES THOMAS.—I am assistant to Mr. Ridpath, pawnbroker, Seymour Street, Euston Square—I produce a silver knife and fork,

and spoon, which were pledged on 16th March for 18s. by 'Benjamin Collett—I afterwards gave them up to the police.

BENJAMIN COLLETT . I live at 12, Exmouth Street, Hampstead Road—the prisoner Collett is my brother—on 16th March he came with Weeks to the shop where I work, at a pianoforte-maker's—my brother introduced Weeks to me as a friend of his—he said he had some property which he wished to dispose of, and he asked me if I could pledge them for him—I said "Yes," and I asked him how he came by the things, when he showed them to me—Weeks said he had had them six months, and had come by them honestly—we then went to my house, where I live, and this case, with the silver knife, fork, and spoon, was given to me to pledge—o I took it to Mr. Ridpath, in Seymour Street, and got 18s. On it.—They also gave me an egg-boiler, which I pledged at Tyrrell's, in Manchester Square, for 2l.—my brother and Weeks waited outside while I pawned the things—they were in uniform—I handed the money to my brother, and I believe he gave it to Weeks—I gave the tickets to my brother, with the money.

THOMAS COX . I am a drummer in the 2nd Battalion 23rd Regiment—I know the prisoner Collett—on 15th March I relieved him from guard—I afterwards saw him close to the barrack-room, talking to Weeks—I afterwards saw them going up the stairs towards the top of the infantry barracks—I don't know where the stores are—about two days afterwards King came to me, and said, "What do you think? Here is a nasty trick they have served us; Weeks and Collett have been and taken some silver plate from where we had planted it, and taken it up to London, and got Collett's brother to pawn it for 2l. 18s."—I saw Weeks after that—I asked him what all this was about—he said "I will tell you the truth; we did take the silver plate, and take it up to London, and Collett's brother pawned it for 2l. 18s."—I reported the matter to the provost sergeant.

King. Q. Did you report it to the sergeant before I was apprehended, or afterwards? A. Just after; you were apprehended in the middle of the night, and I reported it the next morning.

RICHARD HILL . I am a sergeant in the Royal Artillery, attached to the garrison military police—on 19th March, from information I received, I went to an attic in the infantry barracks—I found there a quantity of ladies wearing apparel and sundry other articles—the room was not used—the things were stowed away in different parts of the wood-work—I took possession of the articles; they were shown to Mrs. Cowan, and she identified them as her property—on 30th March I went to Mrs. Williams, and got the things which she has produced to-day; and on 20th April I got the things from Mrs. Large, at the Albert Victor—those things were also identified by Mrs. Cowan—I also went to Tyrell's, the pawnbroker's, with a constable, and saw the egg-boiler; it was given up afterwards at the Police Court—the whole of the prisoners were stationed at the infantry barracks—they must have used skeleton keys to get into the attic, as the whole of that place was looked up, and the keys left in charge of the Royal Engineers.

Ekins. Q. Did you trace the articles, or did I tell you where they were to be found? A. You told me where they were—you told me they were given to you to take there by some one; I don't remember the name—you mentioned King's name, but I don't know whether you said King gave them to you.

FRANCES COWAN . I am the wife of Walter Frederick Cowan, Iieutenant

in the 2nd Battalion 23rd Regiment, quartered at Woolwich—our private luggage was put into store there on 31st December; a portion of it was taken out, and on 12th March the remainder was withdrawn—at that time I did not go through the things—I afterwards found a quantity of things missing—the things produced are all mine except the brooch, which is my servant's, and were part of the store; the value of the things missing was about 50l.

McCulloh's Defence. I know nothing at all about it. I remember going to Poplar with Ekins. I did not know what he had in the bag. I only went to pass an afternoon with him; it was Saturday, and I had nothing to do.

Ekins' Defence. On 9th March the prisoner King came to me, and asked me if I was going to London. I said, "Yes." He said he wanted me to do him a kindness. I asked him what it was; he said he had bought some articles, and would I sell them. One was a goose-feather petticoat. I asked him Where he got It, and he said he bought it I took the things to Mrs. Wallman, and asked if she could detain them till Monday, so that I could enquire about the things; and then I went in hospital, and wrote a letter to her, telling her I was sorry I could not come for the things; and when I came out of hospital I was taken into custody.

King's Defence. I say that I never gave Ekins the articles at all, and I never spoke to Cox About the robbery, and never had anything to do with it.

A witness stated that Ekins was in the infirmary for a week or ten days with a bad foot.




WEEKS and COLLETT— Twelve Months' Imprisonment each.

Reference Number: t18720506-440

440. ALFRED KING, DAVID MCCULLOCH , and WILLIAM WEEKS , were again indicted for stealing seventy-nine shirts, twenty-seven towels, fourteen pairs of gloves, six pairs of boots, and other goods, the property of our Lady the Queen. '

MESSRS. POLAND and DOUGLAS conducted the Prosecution. HENRY Foot. I am sergeant in the 22nd Brigade of the Royal Artillery, at Woolwich—in February last I had charge of the regimental stores kept in the basement of the Marine Barracks—I was there on 24th February, about 4 o'clock, and the things were all safe then—I left the place locked up—I went there again next morning, between 9 and 10 o'clock—I found the stores had been broken into; a pane of glass was broken—I missed several articles, to the value of 30l. or 40l., such as shirts, boots, and towels—I have seen some articles since which are similar to those which I missed—I believe six pairs of boots were stolen—the prisoners are drummers in the 23rd, and lived in the barracks.

WILLIAM RITCHIB . I am Provost Marshall of the Royal Artillery, at Woolwich—on the morning of 25th February, something was reported to me with regard to the stores, and afterwards, on 19th March, I searched the attic of the Marine Barracks, which is in the same building in which the prisoners live—I found a considerable quantity of property; I have a list of the articles—I found the proceeds of three other robberies, one of which had been committed the night before at the same place—I found seventy-two shirts, five pairs of regimental boots, brushes of different sorts,

Twenty-two razors, a quantity of type used for marking clothing, and many other articles—I know the articles as being similar to those that are in store—when boots are issued to the men they art always numbered—there is a wooden framing round the attic, and the things were concealed round by the wood-work—it is immediately under the slates, and some of the things were concealed in the roof.

JOSIAH TURNER (Dockyard Police 35). On the morning of 28th March I went to 90, Charlton Street, Kentish Town, with Sergeant Hill—I saw a woman there, and had a conversation with her—from what was said, I went to a part of the garden and dug up the ground—I found sit regimental shirts, two pairs of socks, one towel, two brushes, eleven forks, and twelve knives—I showed them to Mr. Ritchie, and he identified them as part of the property that had been missed.

ARTHUR WILLIAM KING . I am a drummer in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd Foot—Alfred King is my brother—on Sunday, 17th March, I was going home with my jacket; I had just enlisted: I had got my uniform, add was going to take my other jacket home—my brother asked me to take a dozen knives, and eleven forks, and a pair of boot-brushes home and give them to my mother—he said he had bought them at an Artillery sale—I took them home and gave them to my mother.

EDWARD CHARLTON . I am a private in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd Foot—I know Weeks—on 18th March I bought a military shirt of him for 7d.—He did not say where he got it—it was between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning—he asked me whether I wanted to buy a shirt, and I told him "Yes"—it had been washed, I think; it was clean—I kept it in my room till the 21st, and then I gave it up to Sergeant Attewell.

JOHN WATSON . I am a sergeant in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd Foot—on the 18th or 19th March, McCulloch showed me a pair of boots—he said he had got them altered in the regimental shop, and they did not fit him, and he wished to sell them—he said he bought them of an artilleryman—I did not buy them; I showed them to Sergeant Adams, and they were left with him.

McCulloch. Q. Did not you have it, on your Court Martial, that the boots had been offered publicly before that? A. Yes, that was brought up at my Court Martial, but I did not see them.

JAMES ADAMS . I am a sergeant in the 2nd Battalion, 21st Regiment—about the 18th or 19th March, Watson came to my room and showed me a pair of boots—they were left with me—I saw McCulloch about them a few days after—I had made inquiries about them, and I told him I would purchase them after seeing Captain Hazlewood—on 27th March I was made a prisoner, and taken to my quarters—I had the boots in my possession then—I gave the boots to Sergeant Adams, and gave an account of how I came in possession of them—I was tried by Court Martial for having the boots and neglecting to report it.

McCulloch. Q. Did you hear me offering them for sale? A. Yes; they were offered publicly through the rooms.

GEORGE ATTEWELL . I am a sergeant in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd Regiment—on 21st March I received a shirt from Charlton—it corresponded with the shirts that were found in the attic—I sent for Weeks, and asked him where he got it—he said "I found it in the area of the Infantry Barracks about a month ago"—I placed him under arrest—on the 27th I found a pair of boots in the possession of Adams—they had undergone

alterations—they are marked with the broad arrow, and "W D," and the stamp of 1870, but there is no number of issue.

HENRY FOOT (re-called). I have looked at these boots—there were six pairs missing—when boots are issued to a soldier they are marked with his regimental number—this is a regimental shirt, and is marked "WD"—it is worth 2s. 9d.—The things found in the garden and attic are Government property.

King, in his defense, stated that he bought the knives and forks of a man on Woolwich Common, and sent them as a present to his mother. McCulloch stated that he got the boots from a man who was going to get his discharge; that he had them altered in the shop; they were too small, and he offered them for sale publicly. Weeks stated that he us at bugle practice before breakfast, and found the shirt; that he kept it for some time, and then sold it.

KING— GUILTY Twelve Months' Imprisonment.




Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18720506-441

441. JOHN DIXON (22) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of William Watson, and stealing therein 3l. 14s., the money of John Joseph Weston.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN JOSEPH WESTON . I am a carman, of Richmond, Surrey—I live over the stable in my brother's yard there, and know the prisoner from his frequently working for him—on Thursday night, 18th April, I went to bed about 11 o'clock: my two younger brothers were there previously—I bolted the door and hung my trowsers on the bed-rail—I had 3l. 10s. in gold, and two florins in a purse in my pocket—there were three sovereigns, one of which was an Australian, and another, an old one—they were exactly like these three sovereigns produced—the purse has not been found—after I had gone to sleep, my elder brother came in—next morning I got up about 6.15; my three brothers were then there—I found my trowsers on the floor—I felt in the pocket and my money was gone—I do not knew who took it—about 9.30 that morning I was driving a cart in Clarence Street, and saw the prisoner, who tried to hide from me—he was about three minutes' walk from my place—I mentioned that to Detective Pearson, and on going to the police-station, about 8 o'clock, I saw the prisoner there, and charged him with robbing me.

WILLIAM WESSTON . I am a master carman of Richmond—on Thursday night, 18th April, I went home about 12 o'clock, and found the door wide open—the dog began to bark—I could not see anybody about the place, I bolted the door and got into bed—I have to go through a hay-loft to the place—a pane of glass is taken out of the door, for us to let ourselves in, and the last who is in puts a board over it—I learned in the morning that my brother had been robbed—I examined the door to see if anybody had been in after me, and found they had not—I informed a detective, and about 9.10 that morning I met the prisoner in the Kew Road, and saw him go into the Tam O'Shanter public-house—I did not see him come out, the next I saw of him was in Kew Foot Lane, near the Queen's Laundry, sitting down examining some money—he wrapped some of it up in a handkerchief, and the rest he put in another pocket and sat

Down and went to sleep, he was drunk—I waited till Pearson came up and assisted in taking him to the station—I have frequently employed the prisoner and given him leave to sleep in the hay-loft, so that he could see us go up to the room—after the prisoner was taken, I went with Pearson to Mr. Cottam's garden, adjoining our premises, and compared the prisoner's boots with some marks there, and they exactly corresponded, part of the iron tip on the heel was worn away, and the middle part of the sole was worn away.

Prisoner. I am often in the garden to fetch barrows out. Witness. There are never any barrows up there, that part of the garden is planted with seeds and we traced the footmarks to the fence where you had got over—you had no business in the garden that day.

ANNIE WRIGHT . I am barmaid at the Rose and Crown, Richmond—on Friday morning, 19th April, about 9.15, I served the prisoner with a half-pint of rum and a half-quartern of gin—he had two companions—he gave me this Australian sovereign—I afterwards gave it to the detective—I have no doubt it is the same.

ANDREW PEARSON (Detective). On the morning of 19th April, I was near the Queen's Laundry, and found the prisoner drunk and incapable, lying across the footpath in Kew Foot Lane, asleep—with Mr. Weston's assistance I took him to the station, and found on him these two sovereigns and 1l. 6s. 6d. in silver—I took off his boots, about 11 o'clock, and went with Mr. Weston to Mr. Cottam's garden, adjoining where the Westons sleep—I compared the boots with the footmarks, and they exactly corresponded; the iron is a little worn, and the nails are worn away—two or three rows of nails on the toe left their print—I saw no barrows in that part of the garden, it was planted, and he had walked to a sand-heap, and we could trace the footmarks there and back again.

Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent. I know nothing about it.


He was further charged with having been convicted at Newington in September, 1868, to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Eighteen Month Imprisonment.

Reference Number: t18720506-442

442. FREDERICK CANTERBURY (38) , Feloniously cutting and wounding Susannah Simmonds, with intent to do her some grievous bodily harm.

ALFRED BROCK (Policeman P 75). On 22nd April, about 10.30 p.m., I was on duty in Rodney Row, and saw the prisoner making a great disturbance, knocking at a door, and demanding to be admitted—he was drunk—I advised him to go away—he said he should not go, his wife was inside, and he should knock till he got admittance—he left for about five minutes, and returned and commented knocking again for about three-quarters of an hour, and then the woman came out—I advised her to go away with him, and said I thought he would be all right when he was sober—they went away about 100 yards—he kept pressing her to go home with him, and she said she would have nothing to do with him, and applied to me for protection—I said "You had better go home"—she walked about twenty yards, and he followed her into Cottage Row—the prisoner waited for a few minutes, and said "If you don't go home with me I will do for you"—I saw him draw something from his pocket and put his arm forward, and the woman screamed out that she was stabbed—I was about ten yards away—another constable came up, and the prisoner walked away ten yards

—I pursued him, and he turned round, held the knife out, and said "Here is the knife, I have done nothing"—I had got hold of him then—I gave it to the other constable—it was open, and there was blood on it—he said at the station that he was very sorry for what he had done; not for the woman's sake, but the child's—he took it to heart very much, and cried—I saw the woman with blood running from her bosom—she was taken to the hospital.

Prisoner. I was drunk: I do not know anything about it.

SUSANNAH SIMMOMDS . I have lived with the prisoner fourteen or fifteen years—he was kind to me when sober, but when drunk he was not—latterly he has given way to excessive drinking, but about six months ago he made an effort at reform—I came home from work on this night at 9.30, and he was in the place, drunk: there were some dreadful words and he went out—he returned drunk, and I did not want to let him in, but my landlord asked me to go down and pacify him—I was wounded in my breast—I am quite well now.

HENRY MORRIS JONES . I found an incised wound in the prosecutrix's right breast, about an inch deep—it was in a dangerous situation, but it was not a dangerous wound; she was about a week in the hospital—she is quite out of danger, but very weak—she will be some time recovering the loss of blood, the hemorrhage was very free.

GUILTY Eighteen Months' Imprisonment.

Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.

Reference Number: t18720506-443

443. ANN MARKS (57) , PLEADED GUILTY to feloniously having counterfeit coin in her possession, with intent to utter it, having been before convicted in October, 1867*— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18720506-444

444. JAMES SMITH (32), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. POLAND and ST. AUBYN conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . I am employed by the Treasury in the Mint prosecutions—on the morning of 6th April I went to 3, Alfred Place, Salisbury Street, Bermondsey, with Inspector Bryant and other officers—I saw the prisoner's side face at the window, as I was going up Alfred Place—there is a little fore-court in front—I opened the gate and went in—the house had two rooms—I knocked at the door—the prisoner put his head out of the window, and then came down—I said "Well, Goodwin, I want you, you are suspected of dealing in counterfeit coin; I come here with a warrant, you are entitled to have it read, if you like"—I saw a file on the table at that time, and I picked it up—when I said he was entitled to have the warrant read, he said "What is the use of that, Mr. Brannan"—it was about 7.30—he was partly dressed—I heard footsteps up stairs and I ran up, leaving the prisoner in Bryant's custody—I was a very short time there when Bryant said "Brannan, come down; I think you will find what we came for down here"—he directed my attention to half a bag of plaster of Paris, which was on a little shelf—I was going out, and Bryant pointed to a saucepan which Stood by a little water-butt—the prisoner said "You b old villain, if You find anything in that saucepan you must have put it there yourself"—I had not mentioned the saucepan before that, nor had anyone else—I went to the saucepan, it was full of cinders—I brought it in and emptied the contents on the table, and I found this little water proof bag, which contained 26 counterfeit half-crowns, 6 florins, 60 shillings, and 42 sixpences:

Making 143 pieces altogether—they were all bad, some finished and some unfinished—wrapped up in a piece of paper in the same bag, there was a good half-crown, a good florin, and 3 good shillings—the dates on the bad money correspond with the dates on the good—I searched the water-closet, and on a ledge between the rafters I found this little black bag with a packet of 6 half-crowns and 3 florins, all bad, and separately wrapped with paper between—I saw Reynolds find a flat file with metal in its teeth—under the ceiling we found a crucible containing white metal which had been melted, copper wire, a spoon containing grease and lamp-black, which is known as slumming stuff, and an iron spoon used as a ladle—all those things are used for making counterfeit coin—I said to the prisoner "You will have to account for the possession of these, Goodwin"—he said "Don't call me Goodwin, I have been going by the name of Smith these last eight years; you never saw me before in your life"—I said "Nonsense, do you recollect about Guildhall?"—He said "The" b—that sent you there, perhaps she sent you here now"—I also found some bottles with dregs of acid in them.

Cross-examined. I saw you before I knocked at the door—there was a calico blind half-way up, but your head and shoulders appeared above it—you made no reply when I said "Mr. Goodwin come down, I want you"—you did not say "I will be down in a minute"—I told you about the warrant before I searched the house—I picked up the file, and I smelt a smell which is left behind when metal had been melted in the night—Bryant did not say "Come down, you will find what you want in the saucepan"—you were the first that mentioned the saucepan—I will swear the file was not in the saucepan—I know a man named Samuel Taylor—he has been convicted—I was not told where you lived—I went to the wrong place first, and if I had not seen you I should have come out without knocking at the door—I searched your place, but I did not see these papers—(looking at some) I did not see any of these bills—I did not notice the look of the street door—you did not call my attention to it—Taylor spoke to me about you—I knew he was convicted before—I gate evidence to that effect—he was acquitted—I stated that a woman had been decoyed away from service by him—I am not aware that they are living now in the Hackney Road—I don't know where to meet him now.

BENJAMIN BRIYANT (Police Inspector G). I was with Brannan on 6th April, in plain clothes—I saw him go up to the house, and I followed him inside—I saw him take up a three-cornered file which was on the table—he left me in charge of the prisoner and went up stain—I was in the parlour—I saw a wooden shelf on the closet wall, near the parlour window—the closet was outside the house in the fore-court—I saw a bag of plaster of Paris and some bottles on the shelf—I called to Mr. Brannan "Come down, I think you will find what we have come for down here"—Brannan came down, and I pointed the things out to him from the window—as he was leaving the room the prisoner said "You b—old villain, if you find anything in that saucepan you have put it there"—I pointed to the saucepan after what he said, and Mr. Brannan brought it in—it was standing by the side of the water-butt, in the forecourt—I could see it from the window—it contained cinders—Brannan turned it out on the table, and this bag was inside, which contained the good and bad money—the prisoner's wife came down stairs, and the prisoner laid "Don't you say anything, leave it.

To me; I know all about it, and I will account for it"—the other officers were then sent for.

JOHN REYNOLDS (Police Inspector R). I assisted in searching the house—Brannan gave me a small bag which he took from under the roof of the closet—I found it contained counterfeit coin—I found this small file, with white metal on it, close to where the small bag was found—I also saw some tissue-paper lying on the table, exactly the same as that in which the coin was wrapped—I saw the plaster of Paris found on the shelf in the closet.

Cross-examined. I am sure the paper did not come out of the saucepan, because it was not dusty—I believe Mr. Brannan said that he had a warrant, and you said "What is the use of reading it"—I think that was after the things were found.

JOHN HOSKISSON (Police Inspector L). I was with Brannan and the other officers—I found a crucible and some white metal in an old saucepan, in a cupboard under the stairs—the white metal had been fused, and the crucible appeared to have been on the fire recently.

RICHARD KENWOOD (Detective Officer G). On a shelf up stairs, I found a pair of pincers, and a spoon containing lamp black and grease—I gave them to Brannan.

FRANCIS JOHN BISLEY. I live at 68, Union Road, Rotherhithe—I am an auctioneer, and owner of 3, Alfred Place—I let that house to the prisoner in the name of James Smith—the rent was paid weekly—the houses have forecourts—this is a correct plan—there is a railing in front—the water-closet is close to the railing, and the water-butt behind.

Cross-examined. There is a gate leading from Salisbury Place to Alfred Place, and there is a large dust-bin on the right hand side—your house is separated from No. 2 by a fence—a person standing at No. 2 would not see the whole of the fore-courts—I have not examined the look on the street door—it was a proper lock when you took it—you called my attention to the windows being without shutters—I don't think there was a broken window—you did a job for me, polishing a chest of drawers—I did not miss anything after you had done the job—I don't think you could have taken anything, there were too many eyes about.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of Coin to Her Majesty's Mint—here are some patterns, good money, three shillings of '55, '64, and '65—I have examined sixty counterfeit shillings of '55, '64, and '65, made from those patterns—the next is a pattern florin of '68—I have examined six counterfeit florins made from that pattern—the next is a pattern half-crown of '36—I have examined twenty-six counterfeit half-crowns from that pattern—there were found in the closet six counterfeit half-crowns, three made from that pattern, and also three florins made from the pattern of 1868—there are marks on the good coins, showing that they have been used as patterns—all the other things that were found are used for making counterfeit coin.

Witnesses for the Defence.

JAMES SPINK . I am a labourer, and live at 5, Alfred Plaice, next door but one to the prisoner—a person would have a view of his back yard from No. 2—I know that the lock on his door was broken, and the door could be pushed open—I am not aware that the window has a broken pane, but there are no shutters to the window—I saw the police-officers at his house—they did not ask me anything—I don't know where the prisoner used

to go of a morning; I am aware he went to work, because he did some polishing for me.

Cross-examined. I did not know of any regular work that he was doing—I was at work myself in the day, and I don't know what he did.

SARAH SPINKS . I am the wife of the last witness—I showed the prisoner the house when he took it—I burst the door open—there was a small catch-lock on the door—I pushed it open, as I could not get the key in—strangers come and sleep in the closet at night—if you left a saucepan out in the yard, you would run the risk of losing it—anyone could place anything in the yard if he wished to do so—I should think they would hear in the next house if there was any filing at night—I hare seen the prisoner's little girl run errands at night, and I have noticed a light up stairs very late, not down stairs.

Cross-examined. I have seen a light as late as 12 o'clock, and left burning when I went to bed—you could not see into the first floor, but yon could into the parlour if there was a light.

ANN PATERSON . I live at Rotherhithe Street, and my husband is a coal-porter—the prisoner lived in my house, as a lodger, until he took this house—he used to leave home, for work, between 5 and 6 o'clock in the morning, I believe, before I was up—he generally got home between 9 and 10 o'clock—he was very seldom at home in the daytime, except when he was out of work—I never saw anything of counterfeit coin—I have seen him with dirty aprons on.

Cross-examined. I don't know where he went to work—he went across the water in the ferry-boat—he was with me five or six months.

ROSE SKINNER . I live at 4, West Place, Holywell Lane, Shoreditch—the prisoner has employed me at French polishing, from August last year—I continued to work for him till up to Christmas—I worked in Old Street—he used to get to work at 8 o'clock, and leave at 8, and I have worked there till 10 o'clock for him—I never knew that he had anything to do with counterfeit coin—I have been in the habit of going to his house to meals—he has left me to mind the house and the children—he used me well, and I worked overtime for him.

Cross-examined. We worked at 5, Old Street—he had the house, and was there for twelve months—I mean to say that I went for a year to French polish for him—we used to do it in the back room up stairs—he did not live in Old Street, he lived in Hoxton Market; he was employed at Old Street—I don't know how long he was there; he was there when I went.

The prisoner stated that the things had been plated there out of spite, and that he was innocent of the charge.

GUILTY .*—(A Woman named JANE SARAH SEARLE stated that the prisoner had employed her to pass counterfeit coin.)— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.

Reference Number: t18720506-445

445. SARAH MURRAY (21), and MARY LYNCH (21) , Feloniously wounding Susan Snellgrove, with intent to maim her. Other Counts—With intent to disfigure, and do grievous bodily harm.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution; and MR. A. B. KELLEY defended, at the request of the Sheriffs.

SUSAN SNELLGROVE . I am the wife of Samuel Snellgrove, a clothes-horse maker—in March last, I lived at 19, Lansdown Place, Kent Street, but not

at present—on 4th March, I saw a man named Daniel Harris running in Caroline Place, leading into Lansdown Place, New Town, and I saw a person who I afterwards knew as Mr. Sykes—I did not see Harris taken into custody—I did not go before the Magistrate when Harris was in custody—on 20th March I was served with a subpoena about 0.45 in the morning—I did not leave my house for the purpose of going to the Court, I was going to the doctor's shop—I was passing Smith's house, which is No. 17, in Lansdown Place, where I lived, and I went into the room merely to speak to Mrs. Smith—there were a few children in the room, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and the prisoner Murray—I said "What do you think, Mrs. Smith, I am subpoenaed up for that poor chap that stole the gold watch"—she said "For God's sake don't go, if you do you will be murdered"—Mr. Smith said directly "You had better say you don't know him, old gal"—Mrs. Smith, referring to Murray, said "That is his wife"—Murray said "You had better come with me"—I was so terrified, knowing that she was his wife, and knowing what I had to go through, that I got out of doors as quickly at I could, and I heard her say directly "If they don't do for her, I will"—when I got out, the detective Upson was waiting outside for me, and I went with him to the Surrey Sessions—that was not above ten minutes or a quarter of an hour's walk—I did not see either of the prisoners as I was going into Court, or in Court—the Court was cleared while I was in Court, except the gallery—Harris was in the dock, being tried—I was examined as a witness, and said what I knew about him, that I had seen him running on 4th March, that was all—after the case was over, I went home—Upson went with me, and saw me safely home—I did not see the prisoners as I was leaving the Court—I saw Murray as I was going along, at Smith's door—I did not notice that she said anything—I walked along, and got into my house and shut the door—the officer left—that must have been about 6.30 or 6.40—after that, Murray was the first that came up to the window, making the expression "You bleeding old cow, I will gouge your eye out before the night is over"—I also saw Lynch and a great many more, but I did not take notice what they were all saying, I was too frightened—Lynch was against the window; they were all against the window—mine was the front parlour window—the street door was fastened—I was at the window—after a little while they went away, they all went quiet—I wanted some coals, and I looked out three times at the door to see if there was any there, being terrified—I only saw some children opposite, and I went out—I was only going about two doors off—this must have been about 7 o'clock, I daresay about twenty minutes or half an hour after they bad been there—I had got about two doom from my house, when Lynch came up on my left shoulder from behind, and hit me on the shoulder—I turned round like that, away from her, and my eye was out instantly by Murray—not a word was said—Murray had her fist like that, and hit me—I put my head down, and said "Murder, I am stabbed"—I felt pain, just as if it was forked lightning falling out of my eye—I was all blood all over—my eye was out so far as that, but I did not know it at the time—stuff came from my eye; I was smothered all in blood—I saw nothing of the prisoners afterwards, I got in doors as quick as I could—all my clothes were torn off my back as I was getting in doors—I can't say who did it, there were plenty of them—two constables afterwards came, and I was taken to Guy's Hospital—I did not know the prisoners before this, only by seeing them once or twice, not as friends to speak to; I only knew

them by sight two or three days previous to this—at the hospital I was attended to by a surgeon—I have lost the sight of my right eye—I can see with the other eye; I shall by-and-bye, it is getting on nicely now—I saw Murray at the hospital on the Sunday morning following, she was brought to my bedside—she said "I have hit you, but I am very sorry for what I have done; but I did not take your eye out"—she cried—I knew her again—Inspector Mason was present at the time—Lynch was afterwards brought to my bedside; that was nearly three weeks after—I knew her again—I can't exactly tell what was said, I was too terrified—she threatened me, but I can't tell the words—Inspector Mason will tell you.

Cross-examined. I did not know the Smiths very well; I did not know Mrs. Smith at all, and I did not know much of Mr. Smith—I did not go in to visit them, I spoke to them, but they were no acquaintance of mine; I went in to tell them I had got the subpoena, merely as I was passing, because Mrs. Smith was speaking to me when young Harris ran by—I had never met Murray at Smith's place before—I am quite sure Murray said "If they don't do for her, I will, "that was said to me as I was coming out of Smith's house—when she said "You had better come with me" I did not know where she meant; I did not think she meant to the Police Court—I did not see either Murray or Lynch in the Court, when I gave say evidence—in the evening, when I came out of my house, the first person who put her hand upon me was Lynch, she hit me on my shoulder; there was a great crowd afterwards, not at that moment; Murray was there afterwards, or else I should not have bad my eye out—there was nobody else there at that time that I saw, the street seemed quite clear, the crowd came up when I screamed "Murder I"—neither of the prisoners were in front of me when Lynch put her band on my shoulder, they were both behind—I turned suddenly round when Lynch put her hand on my shoulder, and the first thing I felt was Murray's fist in my face, whether there was anything in her hand you will bear—I found my eye was out; it might have been a blow of her fist; I thought at the time it was an instrument that I was stabbed with—I now believe it was a blow of the fist—it was done in an instant—I don't think it affected my senses, I certainly was. frightened—I did not fall against anything, I put up my hands and got in doors as quick as I could, I was only as it might be a window and a door from my own door; before I could get in, the mob came up and tore my clothes, the passage was all full of people—I daresay it must have been four or five minutes before I got into my house—I am quite sure I did not get a fall—the mob did not give me any blows that I am aware of, I did not feel any—when Murray came to my bedside at the hospital she said she had used no instrument—I am certain she said "I struck you a blow"—at the time I received the injury I did not hear Lynch say a word—I did not hear her use any threat towards me before I went to the Police Court or afterwards, but others heard it—I did not see either of the prisoners until I felt Lynch's hand upon my shoulder; they were both there then—the expression Murray used to me before that was "You bleeding old cow I will gouge your eye out before the night"—when she said "If they don't do it I will," I did not think she referred to the Smiths, I don't know who it was; there was no one else there.

Re-examined. I am quite sure that I did not fall either against the wall or over a barrow; I never fell anywhere—I did not see where the prisoners came from; they came behind me—Harris's mother lived two doors from

me in Lansdown Place—I was not going past there; I turned the other way—I don't know where the prisoners lived.

COURT. Q. You have said you think it was a blow of a first? A. Yes; I can't say whether any weapon was used—I was struck behind—I turned round that way, and then it was a blow in my eye—I said I was stabbed—I did not think a woman could do such a thing with a fist; she was at my shoulder, I was hit by Lynch, turned round like that, and my eye was out—it was a straightforward blow.

GEORGE UPSON (Detective Officer M). I took Daniel Harris into custody about 5.30 on the morning of 8th March, at No. 9, Amicable Row, St. George's New Town, Kent Street, Borough—he was in bed with Murray—I told him in her presence that I should take him into custody on a charge of highway robbery that was committed on the 4th of the same month—he said he knew nothing about it—Murray said nothing—I took him to the station; he was charged before the Magistrate, and committed for trial at the Surrey Sessions—from what I heard I found out where Snellgrove lived—Lansdown Place is about 300 yards from where I took Harris—on the morning of the trial, the 20th March, I went to fetch Snellgrove; I found her before I got to Lansdown Place, in Black Horse Court, close to where the robbery had been committed—I then went with her to the Surrey Sessions—she gave her evidence there—Harris was convicted, and sentenced to eight years' penal servitude and seven years' police supervision—I produce the certificate of the conviction—I did not see the prisoners at the Court—I was directed by the Chairman of the Surrey Sessions to see Snellgrove home; I did so, and when passing Smith's door, which is some few doors from where Snellgrove lived, I saw Murray sitting on the threshold of a door; Snellgrove was some two or three paces in front of me, and as I passed Murray said "She will get her jaw broke to-night," or "She will get her jaw broke for what she has done;" I believe the words were "She will get her bleeding jaw broke for this"—I was in plain clothes, and am a stranger in that neighbourhood; they would not know me—I saw the prosecutrix into her own house; her husband and the landlady were in the room when I went there—while I was in the room several females came to the door, and I heard some threatening language made use of outside, that she would be served out, that she would catch it for going up there as a witness against Harris—I don't know who made use of the threats; I did not see them—I then went out and saw Murray there, and I believe Lynch, but I am not positive about her; there were some half-dozen women and children—I then cautioned them all—I said "I have heard some threats made use of by somebody standing here; I don't know who it was made use of those threats, if I did I should take them into custody; and I will just tell you what the Chairman of the Surrey Sessions has said to-day, that if this woman is molested or ill-used in any way by anybody, if they can only be brought before him, he will deal very severely with them"—I then advised Snellgrove not to come out, and I went away—I received some information that same evening, and looked after the prisoners—I was in search of them until they were both apprehended—I apprehended Lynch on 26th March, about 1.30 in the morning, in Great Dover Street, Borough, in the street—I said "I shall take you into custody for being concerned with a woman named Murray in assaulting and beating a woman named Snellgrove on the 20th of this month, and knocking her eye out"—she said "That bleeding Liz Bassett has rounded on me for this"—Bassett is a

prostitute in the neighbourhood of the Borough—I got her a few paces towards the station, she threw herself down; I got her up again—she said "God strike me blind, I will kill her the first opportunity I get"—I then got assistance, and took her to the station.

Cross-examined. I did not, to my knowledge, see Lynch, or hear her utter any threat while I was accompanying Snellgrove home, or while I was in her room—I did not know Lynch at that time—there were several there—she might have been there and I might not notice her—the threat I heard Murray utter was "She will get her bleeding jaw broke for this," not "You bleeding old cow, I will gouge your eye out"—I was not there then—I walked the entire way from the Surrey Sessions House to her place—I did not remain till the crowd dispersed—I left several standing outside—I left Murray standing there.

COURT. Q. We have heard that the body of the Court was cleared when Snellgrove was giving her evidence? A. It was so—I was in Court—during the time she was giving her evidence she appeared very nervous—Sergeant Ham, in the body of the Court, had heard something which led him to go and say something to the Clerk—the Chairman was made acquainted with what had been said, and he then asked the prosecutrix whether there was anyone in the Court that she felt frightened of, or whether she had been threatened—she said she had been threatened on her way to the Court that morning, and she was afraid she should get ill-used for coming there—the Chairman then ordered all the roughs out of that part set apart for the public in the body of the Court, and they were cleared out.

JAMES HAM (Detective Sergeant P). On 20th March I was at the Surrey Sessions in plain clothes—I saw Mrs. Snellgrove pass through the Court with Detective Upson—I was standing there talking to another person, when my attention was called to the two prisoners—I heard Murray say just as they had gone past, "There goes the lagging cow," and Lynch made answer "If she does, we will b—y well settle her to-night"—there was a man with them when they said that—it was before she gave her evidence, in the passage of the Court—about half-an-hour afterwards I went into Court and saw Harris in the dock, being tried, and the proseoutrix called as a witness—seeing her looking across at the back of the Court, I looked also, and there I saw Lynch and Murray, and others whom I had seen outside—seeing Snellgrove very loth to give her evidence, I went and told the Chairman what I had heard outside—in consequence of that the Court was cleared—the prisoners were not turned out, as soon as they saw me speaking to the Chairman and attention was called, they rushed out with others that were there, and I saw no more of them—I went out immediately to see if I could find them, and they were gone—I had known Lynch before, but net Murray.

Cross-examined. I do not know the Smiths, or know anything about them.

JAMES WALSH (Policeman M 249). I took Murray into custody on Sunday morning, 24th March, at 3 o'clock, at 19, Eltham Street, Kent Street—it is 200 or 300 yards from Lansdown Place—there were four of them in one bed, two men and two women—I took another constable with me—I was told there were knives prepared for me—I knocked at the door—I found it securely fastened and barred—I placed another constable at the door, went to the back of the house, broke a square of glass, turned the catch, and so got into the room—on doing so the man that was sleeping with

Murray jumped out of bed, ran to the window, and made under a table to get something—before he had time to rise from his knees I knocked him back into a corner, drew my staff and lamp, and told him if he stirred I would settle him—the door was fastened inside—I could not get out, so I made the man get up and open the door and admit the other constable—I then pulled the clothes off Murray, and said to her "I want you for stabbing the eye out of a woman in Lansdown Place on Wednesday night"—I did not know the woman's name at that time—she said "I know nothing about it"—I said "You will have to dress yourself and come with me to the station"—she got up, and as she stood she turned very pale and shook a little, and the man said "What the bleeding hell are you in dread of; they can't give you seven years for it"—she said "If they give me seven years for it I would tie a rope round my neck and screw the b——y head off myself"—on the way to the station she said "I will own I hit her in the eye, but with no sharp instrument."

Cross-examined. When she was taken to the station and heard the charge taken, she said "I will own that I hit her in the eye, it might be with my fist, but with as sharp instrument" or "blunt instrument," I won't say which, I think it was "sharp instrument"—she said that Snellgrove fell against the wall—there was no resistance offered to me in the room; the man got under the table, he had not time to rise; I saw him stoop for something, and I said I would settle him—the women offered no resistance—when I told Murray it was for stabbing a woman, she said "Not me, I know nothing about it"—one of the men did not get out of bed at all, he had not time to get up, the man who did get out was outside, the other was lying against the wall—I had been looking for Murray before, ever since it was done; I had never seen her before, I took her from description.

WILLIAM MASON (Police Inspector M). I was at the Southwark Police Station when Murray was brought there in custody—I said to her "Before I take the charge I shall take you down to the hospital, to the bedside of Susan Snellgrove, the injured woman"—on the way there she said "I own I struck her, and as soon as I did so she fell over a barrow against the wall; I did not strike her with any sharp instrument; there were several children there at the time, and they commenced to kick her Was the hospital I saw Snellgrove is bed; I said to her, in Murray's presence, "I want you to look at this woman, to set if you know her"—she looked at her and said "Yes, that is the woman that struck me when the other one turned me round"—Murray again said that she owned she struck her, but she did not strike her with any sharp instrument—at the station, after I returned, she said "If you get the right party I will round upon her, but I won't say nothing until you do"—she cried and sobbed very much at the hospital, and seamed very sorry: she said she struck her in the eye once—on the 9th April I took Lynch to Snellgrove's bedside, she had then had her eye taken out—I said "I want you to look at this person to see if you know her"—she looked at her and said "Yes, that is the woman that turned me round"—Lynch said "Do you say that I turned you round?"—she said "Yes, you did"—Lynch then became very violent; she shook her fist and said "I wish I had stiffened you; may you lie there for ever, you bleeding old cow"—I then ordered the officers to take her out of the hospital.

Cross-examined. I made a deposition about taking Lynch to the hospital, and they took a note of it, and I have told them it was not attached to the depositions when it was read over—Lynch denied that she was the person

that turned her round—when Snellgrove said to Murray "You struck me," Murray replied "There were others struck you as well as me," and them Snellgrore said "No one else struck me but you"—Murray persisted in stating that she used no instrument, and Lynch persevered in her denial—she did not say she was not there, she said she did not strike her, that was before she said "I wish I had stiffened you."

ALFRED GILLINGHAM . On Wednesday night, 20th March, I was house surgeon at Guy's Hospital; Snellgrove was brought there about 10 o'clock—I examined her; there was a rupture of the right eye; she was then perfectly blind of that eye; the rupture allowed the escape of the internal structures of the eye, they had come out; the parts all round were bruised, and on lifting the eye-ball yen could see a wound about a quarter of an inch in length running horizontally—the eye was not out of socket, it was in position, the parts were all tremendously swollen—what I call the internal structures of the eye are the lens and the fluid contained in the eye there was bleeding into the eye, and there was blood outside it—I think the injury could have been inflicted with a blow from a fist or a thumb-nail; either or both would do it—a blow would rupture the eyeball, it was not from the finger making a puncture—a blow from the fist might have caused it; it might have caused the wound a quarter of an inch long; both the rupture and the wound—I should think the blow was given from below upwards, so as to cause the eyeball to strike against the edge of the socket—I attended her up to the 19th of April—I removed the eye on 25th March, the Monday following her admission—there was a certain amount of irritation set up in the other eye; that is now free from danger; there was danger to it Until the injured eye was removed; there were no symptoms to require its removal before the Monday—I found no mark whatever of a graze, as if from a fell against a wall or a barrow.

Cross-examined. When I say the internal structures of the eye had come out, I mean that the lens and the fluid had escaped; of course I could hot see them escape, the parts gradually came away; I could not say what structures were gone until we opened the eye after it was removed; they were all gone then, there was nothing but blood Inside the eye, the lens and the fluid had run out of the wound; I don't mean that the eye came out; when I took the eye out all the internal structures were gone—they might have escaped before; I expect they did escape after the injury, from the opening in the eye—a process of inflammation was going on for some days after the injury—I thought first the first that it would be necessary to remove the eye; but there was no irritation set up in the other eye, and therefore there was no occasion to hurry—the sensation to the person from a blow on the eye is such as the prosecutrix has described as a flash of lightning; that would be the sensation from a blow with the fist on the ball of the eye; it might follow from a Violent blow of any kind—I do not think the injury could have been caused by her turning round suddenly against the fist, from the position of the Wound it must have been driven up against the edge of the orbit—I don't think a person could turn sharply round with sufficient violence against a stationary fist to have caused the injury—I think the appearance of the eye completely precluded the possibility of the injury being caused by a fall against a wall—I think it was most likely inflicted by the fist.

COURT. Q. I suppose persons often get struck in the eye without having it ruptured? A. Oh yes; it is not an ordinary occurrence for the eye to

be ruptured by a mere blow of the fist—I never saw a person whose eye had been gouged out—I don't think I could say that there wag any indication here of more than a blow—I remember once seeing a man at the hospital whose eye had been gouged out, but I did not examine the symptoms—I saw no graze or incision on the eyelid here, except a general swelling—I should imagine if the thumb nail were used it would leave a mark on the eyelid—I saw nothing inconsistent with gouging unless it was that there was no mark, as by a thumb nail—the lens of the eye is a solid; it is a bi-convex transparent body; it is a hard substance, it might break down, be dissolved and degenerate into matter; it is semi-cartilaginous—it might come away solid, or be dissolved and come away as matter—the lens is that part of the eye which becomes opaque, and so is called cataract—I cannot tell whether it was in the eye when I first saw the woman—our senior surgeon saw the case—I also showed it to the ophthalmic surgeon, and I attended the case under their direction—I removed the eye myself.

SARAH PEEK —I live at 2, Queen Street, Mint Street, Borough, and am a hawker—on Wednesday, 20th March, between 6 and 7, I was going down Kent Street, and saw the prisoners together coming out of St. George's New Town—I knew Murray before—I asked her where she had been—she walked on, and Lynch caught hold of my frock and pulled me, and said "We have found the b—cow that lagged him, and we have done it for her"—this was about 200 yards from Lansdown Place—I know nothing of Harris—I am a stranger that side of the bridge—I have seen him, but I don't know him—I knew him by seeing him with Murray once.

Cross-examined. I am sure this was between 6 and 7 from the time I came home from work—I came away from the other side of the water at 4.30, and when I got home it had just gone 6, and then I washed myself and combed my hair, and put on my jacket and bonnet and went out to get some meat for my tea, so I know it was between 6 and 7—I was indoors, I should think, half-an-hour—I was not acquainted with Lynch—I had seen her once or twice—I knew Murray—I had had no difference with her.

Re-examined. I had seen Lynch before, coming through Mint Street—I have seen two or three different people with her; I could not say who they were—I never saw her till I came this side of the water.


LYNCH— GUILTY .**— Penal Servitude for Life.

THE COURT awarded a sum of two guineas to the officer Walsh.

Before Mr. Justice Byles.

Reference Number: t18720506-446

446. HENRY STEER (27), and SARAH STEER (22) , Feloniously setting fire to certain articles belonging to Henry Brooks, with intent to defraud.

MR. THORNE COLE conducted the Prosecution; and MR. RIBTON the Defence.

WILLIAM ORFORD . I am a printer, at 7, Manor Street, Lambeth—my father is agent for 14, Manor Street, where the prisoners resided—on Saturday last at 9.45 at night, in consequence of a communication, I went there and saw the two prisoners in the down stairs room; the male prisoner was at the window and the female at the foot of the bed—the room was all one red glow, and full of smoke; the bedding, mattress, sheet, and counterpane were all in one red glow—I did not say anything to the prisoners, or they to me; I went and got some water and put the fire out—the prisoners did not assist

me at all—after putting it out I said to the man "What is the cause of this fire?"—he said "My wife lit a match and set fire to it;" she said "No, I did not, it was you; you want to put it on me because my mother has been in the madhouse twice"—he replied "Let the b—things burn, and burn the bitch"—that was all that took place—the woman's face seemed covered with blood—they were both the worse for liquor, the female was the worst—they were not so drunk as not to know what they were about—the inspector came in and they were taken in charge.

Cross-examined. They were both drunk—the man said "My wife did it with a match"—I could not discover whether there was any smell of tobacco in the room; there was too much smoke; the woman's face was covered with blood, as if from a blow—I did not see whether any of her clothes were scorched, I did not examine them—Mr. Brooks said the furniture was their own.

Re-examined. They did not suggest that they had been smoking, or that it was an accident.

JURY Q. What did you bring the water up in? A. In a pail—two pailsful extinguished it.

WILLIAM PEACOCK (Police Inspector L). About 10 o'clock last Saturday night I was called to 14, Manor Street, and found the two prisoners and last witness there—the room was full of smoke, but the fire bad been extinguished; a portion of the mattress, sheet, and counterpane had been burnt—Mr. Oxford did not make any charge against them; the female, pointing to the male prisoner, said that he struck a match and deliberately set fire to the bed; he replied "You are a liar, you did it yourself"—the woman's face was covered with blood; she said nothing about it—I took them into custody.

Cross-examined. I did not see a candle in the room; there might have been one, but the female said there was not.



Reference Number: t18720506-447

447. EDMUND EDMONDS (53), was indicted for the manslaughter of Anne Edmonds.



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