Old Bailey Proceedings, 5th January 1863.
Reference Number: t18630105
Reference Number: f18630105


Sessions Paper.








Short-hand Writers to the Court.








Law Publishers in the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.




On the Queen's Commission of



The City of London,





Held on Monday, January 5th, 1863, and following days.

BEFORE the Right Hon. WILLIAM ANDERSON ROSE, M.P., Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir Colin Blackburn, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir Henry Singer Keating Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Thomas Challis, Esq.; and Thomas Quested Finnis, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City; Russell Gurney, Esq. Q.C., Recorder of the said City; Warren Stormes Hale, Esq.; John Joseph Mechi, Esq.; Edward Conder, Esq.; and Robert Besley, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City; Thomas Chambers, Esq. Q.C., Common Serjeant of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.









A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.


OLD COURT.—Monday, January 5th, 1863.

PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR, M.P.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. MECHI.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-188

188. WILLIAM SAVILLE (21), was indicted for a robbery with violence upon Susannah Pillivant, and stealing 4 mantles, the property of Aissent Gedley.

MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.

SUSANNAH PILLIVANT . I reside with my father, at 49, Westmoreland-place, City-road—on 6th November, I was servant to Mrs. Gedley, of 5, Artillery-court, Chiswell-street—on 6th November I was sent by her to Mr. Thorpe's, in Bunhill-row—it is about ten minutes walk—about ten minutes past 6, I was coming back with 4 mantles in a bundle which had been given to me at Mr. Thorpe's—when I got into Bunhill—row I saw the prisoner—he came up to me—I had seen him in the early part of the afternoon—I had been two or three times to Mr. Thorpe's—him walking up and down Bunhillrow once or twice, I can hardly recollect which—there was somebody with him; that was about 4 o'clock—as I was coming back with the mantles, about ten minutes past 6, he came behind me, and tried to snatch the bundle from me, but I held it so tight he could not get it away—I began to scream, and he caught me by the throat, and tried to throttle me, and dragged me across the road—I fell down at the corner of the court where he dragged me to, and then he got the bundle—before he got the bundle the other one who was with him came and gave me a kick at the side of the head—I did not see so much of that man as I did of the prisoner—he was like some one that I had seen before—I have seen a good many persons like him—I tried to follow that man, but he got away—on the 11th I was taken to the station-house by a policeman, and then saw several persons—I picked out the prisoner as the person who had assaulted me—I heard the charge read over to him, and he said he could prove that he was at his young woman's house from 2 o'clock till 10 in the evening—I had previously given a description of the man to the officer.

Cross-examined by MR. F. H. LEWIS. Q. Were you wearing the same hat then that you are now? A. No—it was a black hat, one that came rather more over my forehead—the prisoner first came behind me to try to get the parcel from me, then he came in front—the other one did not come across the road till I began to scream—at first they were both on the same side of the road—the other man was before me at first—he did nothing then, he only stood and looked on—there was a gaslight about twenty yards from where I was—I was dragged across the road into the dark—about five minutes elapsed from the time I was first attacked till I was dragged across into the dark—it seemed a long time to me—I was very much alarmed—I screamed directly I could—there is an alteration in the prisoner since I last saw him a month ago—he has had the small-pox—I still persist in saying he is the man—he had not the small pox when I identified him at the police-court—if I had seen a man then with the small-pox I don't think I should have said he was the prisoner—when the policeman came to me, he told me he had the man in custody that he thought had robbed me, by the description I had given him.

THOMAS EVANS (Police-sergeant, G 22). About 5 o'clock on 11th November I saw the prisoner with two others in Featherstone-street—I followed them into Bunhill-row—I spoke to the prisoner in Coleman-street, and told him I wanted him for stealing a bundle from a little girl in Bunhill-row—he said, "I was not in Bunhill-row the night before last"—I said, "I did not say the night before last"—he made no remark.

AISSENT GEDLEY . I am a mantle-maker at 5, Artillery-court—on 6th November, about 6 in the evening, I sent the prosecutrix to Mr. Thorpe's with some mantles—I had sent many before—they were my property.

JAMES BLOGG (Policeman, G 124), I know the prisoner by sight—I saw him on the 28th October in Clerkenwell—he nodded his head, and said, "How do you do?"—he had on a black hat, very nigh a new one, I should say by the look of it, and a black cloth coat—I can't positively swear whether I had seen him in that hat before, but I believe I had once.

SUSANNAH PILLIVANT (re-examined). The person who took the bundle had on a black coat and a black hat—I gave a description of the dress to the policeman.

THOMAS EVANS (re-examined). When I took the prisoner into custody he had a cap on.

GEORGE MATTOCK (Policeman, G 162). I was at the station-house just after the prisoner was brought in—the charge was read over to him—he said, "I can prove different to that; I was out with my young woman from 2 in the afternoon till 10 at night.

Cross-examined. Q. Was he told it was for an assault on 6th November? A. I don't know—I was there when the sergeant read the charge, but I do not recollect what the words were—I only remember what the prisoner said.

MR. LEWIS called the following witnesses for the Defence.

ELIZA ROWLAND . I am the wife of Edward Rowland, a smith, at 8, Ironmonger-street—I live in the same house as the prisoner—I remember the 6th of November—the day before being 5th November, I was out, and on 6th November our water-butt burst about dinner time, about 1 o'clock—the prisoner was at home at that time—he was helping his father mending the water-butt, from about 2 o'clock till nearly 4, I can't say exactly the time—I saw him at different times during the afternoon—I went down two or three times during the time it was being done, and I saw him sitting at the table when I went down in the evening, a little before 7.

Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Were you examined at the police-court on 26th November? A. I don't know the day of the month—I was examined on the following fortnight—I know it was on the 6th that the butt burst, because on the Monday following I was away from home until the Tuesday—Mrs. Saville then asked me if I remembered what day the water butt burst, and after a little hesitation I said Thursday—I did not hear anything about the prisoner being in custody until the Tuesday night—I heard nothing more about it till the Thursday—Mrs. Saville then spoke to me again about it—Ironmonger-street leads from Old-street—it is about five minutes walk from Bunhill-row.

COURT. Q. What time did you come home on the Tuesday? A. 10 o'clock at night—I then heard about his being taken into custody.

SARAH NORRIS . I am the wife of William Norris, a bricklayer, of 8, Ironmonger-street—I reside at the house of the prisoner's father—I recollect the 6th November by the water-butt bursting—it burst about 2 o'clock—I saw the prisoner at that time—he was in the room—he worked at the water-butt with his father—I saw him at different times in the afternoon—I afterwards saw him at tea at half-past 6—they take tea about 6.

Cross-examined. Q. Did a young man call to take him out? A. No, no one called.

COURT. Q. You say you saw him in the course of the afternoon; was that while he was engaged on the water-butt? A. Yes, and I saw him between them and tea-time—he opened the door for my little girl at 5 o'clock when she came home from school—I next saw him at tea—I occupy the second floor front room—the prisoner occupied the back parlour on the ground floor—he could not go out without me or Mrs. Rowland letting him in, because the two little children were up in the room at the time, and his father and mother were out—they went out about 4 o'clock—the door is opened by a latch key—I did not hear anybody go out that afternoon.

JOHN AUSTIN . I am a carpenter—I recollect going to Mrs. Saville's house for 4s. 6d. on 6th November—the prisoner opened the door to me—it was a quarter-past 6 in the evening.

COURT. Q. Were you examined at the police-court? A. No—I can fix the day—I was going out on the 5th, but it rained hard, and I did not go out of doors, as I was unwell, and I went the next evening—I gave a receipt to the prisoner's father—I am certain it was 6th November—I know the time, because when I passed Shoreditch the clock was striking 6—my attention was first called to this about a week before Christmas—I was asked what day it was I went for the money, and the time, and I said a quarter-past 6 in the evening.

JURY. Q. How long would it take to walk from Shoreditch church to the prisoner's house? A. About ten minutes—I received the money from the prisoner's father.

SARAH NORRIS (re-examined). I can't say what time the prisoner's father and mother came in—Mr. Saville could let himself in with a latch key—it might be about 6, or a little after—they sat down to tea about ten minutes after 6—I saw them at tea at half-past 6—the prisoner called up for his little sister at ten minutes past 6 to get something for tea—she was then in Mrs. Rowland's room.

ANN ELIZABETH BINGHAM . I am twelve years old—I live at 6, Ironmonger-street—my father occupies one of the prisoner's father's houses, and pays him rent—I recollect going there to pay him some rent on 6th November—I know that was the day, because it was the day after Guy

Fawkes' day—it was at a quarter to 6 that I went—the prisoner opened the door to me, and he sent me down to the "Ironmonger's Arms" to get two sixpences for a shilling.

COURT. Q. Have you been examined before? A. No—father recollected about paying the rent, and he told me—that is the only way I know it—I recollected what day it was before my father told me—he asked me what day it was, and then he told me afterwards.

WILLIAM SAVILLR . I am the prisoner's father—I am a watch motion maker, and reside at 8, Ironmonger-street—I have lived in my present house twenty years—I recollect the 6th November—I remember the water-butt bursting—my son was at home then, and he assisted me in repairing it—I and my wife went out about 4 o'clock—we returned a few minutes before 6—my son was at home when I left, and when I came back—we had tea directly we came back—we sat over our tea, I dare say, an hour—I recollect Mr. Austin coming—he had done a little repairing work for me, a little carpentering—I paid him 4s. 6d. that evening—I have the receipt here (producing it)—it is dated 6th November, 1862—it is in the state in which it was when it was given to me—the date was on it at the time—he did these repairs on Thursday, the 6th—no, I think I am wrong, I think it was a day or two before, and he came for the money on the 6th.

JOHN AUSTIN (re-examined). The whole of this receipt is in my handwriting—the "6th November" is in my handwriting—it was written at the time I took it there on the 6th—I made it out before I took it.


Reference Number: t18630105-189

189. JAMES TYTLER (37) , Embezzling the sums of 5l. 11s. 8d., 9s. 5d., 18s., 11d., and 6.l. 15s., 4d., which he had received on account of the London and South Coast Railway Company, his masters; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months

Reference Number: t18630105-190

190. WILLIAM BROWN (19) , Stealing a neckerchief, the property of George Bristow, from his person, having been before convicted of felony; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-191

191. WILLIAM BEAUMONT (28) , Stealing a watch, the property of Eugene Bernouilli, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY Confined Nine Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-192

192. GEORGE BATES (31) , Stealing 157l. the monies of Samuel Prout Newcombe, his master; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-193

193. JAMES CONDEN (22) , Stealing a handkerchief the property of a man unknown, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Eighteen Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-194

194. HENRY BROOM (30) , Stealing a handkerchief, the property of William Joseph Hollebone, from his person; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .**— Confined Eighteen Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-195

195. JOHN HORNBY (19), and JAMES MERRITT (27) , Feloniously breaking and entering the warehouse of John Blackshaw and another, the masters of Hornby, and stealing 1,400 yards of silk, value 175l. Their property. MR. PATER conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM EARL . I carry on business as an umbrella manufacturer, at 3, 4, and 5, Monkwell-street, Silver-street, in the parish of St. Olave—I have a partner named John Blackshaw—on 29th November, about half-part 5 in the evening, I left the premises safe—I locked them up myself—I locked the door of the warehouse, and I was the last to leave—I sent a boy with the keys to the place where I generally leave them—I returned to the premises on the following Monday morning; 1st December, about twenty minutes past 9—I examined the stock, and missed fourteen pieces of silk from the second floor—Hornby has been in our employ about four months, as an errand-boy—he was on the premises on Saturday, 29th November—I saw him there in the afternoon—I did not see the other prisoner.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. The robbery was on Saturday night, was it not? A. Between Saturday and Monday—Hornby came to his work on Monday morning after the robbery, and remained till the following Saturday night—he was watchman two nights after the robbery, but I won't say what the nights were.

WILLIAM WALLETT . I am in the prosecutors' employ as foreman, and live at 9, Cathcart-villas, Maiden-road, Dalston—I went to the premises on Monday morning, 1st December, about half-past 8—the doors were locked—Hornby was there, outside the premises—after the warehouse was open, Hornby called my attention to know if anything was wrong in the lower part of the premises—I looked round and said, "No;"—he then called my attention to the second floor of the warehouse—I went to the stairs, leading from the second floor to the third floor, and found a piece of gingham lying on the stairs, in a place where it ought not to be—I afterwards looked higher up, and found twelve umbrellas lying on the floor—the boy directed my attention to a rope hanging down from a skylight—the windows and doors were all right—the rope had been cut from the outside by some one putting their arm through a broken square and cutting it close—it was the rope that secured the skylight—at that moment Hornby and two or three other man came up—Hornby desired me to come to the roof of the house—he drew my attention to a trap-door at the other end of the premises, and requested me to get on to the roof—I got on to the roof, and immediately saw a quantity of our silk wrappers lying loose on the adjoining roof a flat roof—they were the outside wrappers used to wrap up the silk—I saw a door nearly opposite with two large holes, which had been cut in the centre with a large centre bit, about five inches in diameter, the remaining space of the door had been cut by a center—bit of about an inch in diameter, so as to separate the door into two pieces—the hole was large enough to admit the body of a man—one of the man slid himself down from our roof to the adjoining roof and ran down the stairs of that house—it led into an empty house adjoining the back of our premises—the entrance had been made from there—we found fourteen vacant wrappers, and we missed fourteen pieces of silk, to the value of about. 180l. or 200l. as near as I can judge—that silk was safe on Saturday afternoon—I was one of the last to leave the premises—I saw them locked—nobody sleeps on the premises—I do not know the prisoner Merritt.

Cross-examined. Q. How many men were with you when looking at the trap-door? A. Two besides Hornby—we hare seven or eight men in our employ, on the premises—it was very early in the morning when I went on the roof, twenty minutes to 9—a few minutes after opening the warehouse—we open the warehouse at half-past 8, as near as possible—Hornby was waiting to get in when I went—I heard of the robbery about five minutes afterwards.

REBECCA TOWNE . I live at 39, Monkwell-street with my aunt, who keeps

a milk shop opposite Winchester-court, Monkwell-street—the side door of Messrs. Blackshaw's adjoins the court—on Sunday morning, 30th November, I was up at 6 o'clock, and opened the door at half-past 7, and saw a cab standing right opposite the door, at the bottom of the court—I saw three men there, four with the cabman—I saw Hornby there—he was the last one to get into the cab—they were putting two bundles into the cab—when I first saw Hornby he was standing at the cab door—the men were at the cab—I am not able to say in what direction they came; when I opened the door the cab was standing there—I saw it drive away with the three men—Hornby was inside when it drove away—I am sure Hornby is one of the men I saw on that morning—it was light—I can't say that the other prisoner was there—I did not observe the other two—Hornby was standing at the door till the bundles were pushed in—at that time one of the others was outside, and the other was inside.

Cross-examined. Q. Where is your house? A. Right opposite the entrance to the court—it is a court for foot-passengers—one door of our house opens into the court—the cab was standing right opposite our door, at the bottom of the court—I opened the door thinking I heard a milk cart coming up—directly the cab stopped I opened the door—the driver was on the box—he did not get down—I don't know whether he was tall or short; he did not get off the box all the time—it was not a foggy morning—the fog did not come on till after 8 o'clock—there was no fog at half-past 7, it was very clear and fine—there was no other vehicle but the cab in the street—Hornby was standing at the door of the cab, facing me—the body of the cab was between him and me—the cab window was not shut—I was not long standing at the door, a few minutes—part of that time they were pushing in the bundles—when I went to the police-court, I was shown Hornby with some other persons—they were different sorts, all sizes—I don't remember that any of them were boys in jackets, there were some about the size of Hornby—I selected him at once.

MR. PATER. Q. Were there about eighteen persons there at the time you selected Hornby? A. Yes; Monk well-street is a narrow street, only one cab can go up it at a time—I had seen Hornby at Messrs. Blackahaw's, but I was not aware that it was him that morning—I knew it was the same one that I had seen before, but I did not know it was him exactly—I said if I saw him again I should know him—I did not know his name—I have no doubt at all about his being the person.

MR. DALEY. Q. Had you known him engaged at some hotel in the neighbourhood? A. No.

EDWARD KNIGHT (City police-inspector). On Saturday evening, 6th December, Merritt was brought to the station, charged with being concerned with Hornby in breaking and entering the house of Messrs. Blackshaw, and stealing a large quantity of silk—I cautioned him, and asked him if he could account for his time on the Saturday night of the robbery—he said he could, that he was with Hornby at Hurst's concert-room until 12 o'clock, from thence they went to a coffee-house in the City-road, and at that place they remained until 8 o'clock on the Sunday morning, and from thence they went to their lodging and had breakfast—I remarked to him that it was singular he should leave a coffee-house to go home to have breakfast, and he replied they did so because he and Hornby grubbed together—I said, "Then you mean that you and Hornby were in each other's company the whole of the Saturday night"—he said, "Yes; we never left each other's company;" or words to that effect—I did not know that they lodged together.

JOHN MARK BULL . I am a detective-officer—from information I received,

I went on Monday, 1st December, to the prosecutor's premises, and examined them—to the best of my judgment the entry had been effected from 11, Winchester-court—that is a three-roomed house—they had forced two pieces out of the door at the top of that house by a centre-bit, then got over two roofs, forced the trap-door, and cut the string of the skylight, and so got in, and they had left in the same way—here is a correct plan of the premises prepared by an architect—Monkwell-street is a very narrow street, not above six yards wide, including the foot pavement it may be eight yards—there is not room for two cabs to pass—I received, from Mr. Wallett, this rope ladder, found in the warehouse, by which the thieves roust have let themselves down—on 6th December, I went with Baker and Ford, two other officers, to the prosecutor's warehouse—I there saw Hornby—I told him I was a detective officer, and he must consider himself in custody on suspicion of being concerned, with two others, in committing the robbery at the premises of his employers, stating the date and hour—I told him I was about asking him a question, he might do as he pleased about answering it, it might be used in evidence against him—I then asked him to account how he spent his time on Saturday evening, the 29th, from 6 o'clock up till 10 on Sunday morning the 30th—he said he went home to his lodgings, at Mrs. Downey's, in Green Arbour-court, Bell-alley, Goswell-street, about 6 o'clock, and he never came out above once during the night, till 10 or 11 the next morning—I then took him to the station, placed him in the yard with sixteen or seventeen others of different ages, dresses, and size, and Miss Towne immediately recognised him.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe you found out Miss Town? A. Yes; two or three days after the robbery.

CHARLES BAKER . I am a detective officer of the City—on 6th December, about half-past 7 in the evening, I went with Ford to a lodging-house in Green Arbour court, Bell-alley—I saw Merritt standing outside the door—I asked him whether his name was James Merritt; he said "Yes"—I asked him if his nick-name was Mercy—he said "Yes"—I told him we were two police-officers, that he must consider himself in custody, for being concerned, with a young man of the name of Hornby, in stealing a quantity of silk; that I was going, to ask him several questions, and he must come with us to the station-house—the inspector asked him the questions there—I was present, and heard what passed.

MARY ANN DOWNEY . I am the wife of William Downey, and keep a lodging-house in Green Arbour-court, Bell-alley, Goswell-street—the two prisoners lodge with me; they sleep in separate rooms—on Saturday afternoon, 29th November, Merritt returned from his work between 2 and 3 o'clock, washed himself, and had his tea—he then left, and came in again just, as the officers came, about 8 o'clock—on the Saturday evening before that both the prisoners were at home, and slept at home; I mean the Saturday that Merritt was taken—on Saturday, 29th, they did not sleep at home; they both went out between 8 and 9 that evening, and did not return that night—they came in at half-past 8 next morning (Sunday) together, and brought a steak with them—they did not go out at all on Sunday—I make their beds—there was no necessity to make them on that Sunday.

Cross-examined. Q. Had they lodged long at your house? A. Merritt for four years, and Hornby over three months—they have frequently slept out of a night—I was first spoken to about this by the officers; they asked me if the prisoners slept at home on this Saturday night, and I said they

did not—that was the same Saturday that Merritt was locked up—I keep no servant.

MR. DALY called the following witnesses for the defence:—

ALFRED SMITH . I am a tinman and iron-founder, and live at 8, Great Mitchell-street, Brick-lane, St. Lake's—I know the two prisoners—on the evening of the 29th November, Hornby was in my company at the Prince Regent public-house, New-court, Goswell-street, from between 9 and 10 till 12 o'clock—I can't say that I saw Mitchell—I can answer for Hornby; I would not swear to the other—I don't know whether Mr. Hurst, the landlord, is here—I am the conductor of his room, and attend on his behalf.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Are yon a waiter? A. No; a singer—I had seen Hornby before, several times; he had been a regular customer there, and the reason I noticed him that morning was because he had not been there for some few nights, and I said to him, "You are almost a stranger;" and he asked me to drink with him—he was in the concert-room—there were not many persons there that evening—we were very slack that evening—there was a young woman with Hornby—I cannot say whether any man was in his company—we closed a few minutes before 12; he remained till the house closed—the Prince Regent is about ten minutes' walk from Monk well-street.

GEORGE WILLIAM ROWE . I am waiter at a coffee-house, 5, Brunswickplace, East-road, City-road—I recollect both the prisoners being there on 29th November; they came, I should say, about half-past 12—they were in the shop having coffee—they left close upon 8 next morning.

Cross-examined. Q. What is the name of this coffee-shop? A. The Albion; it is a night-house—I don't know that it is frequented by questionable characters; there are some of all sorts—I can't question the characters of the people who come—I serve them—I don't know that the house bears a very bad repute in the neighbourhood; I don't go out of the house to ask about that—I am the only waiter—Mr. Brewer is my employer; he was in the parlour on this night—I have to take the orders and serve the customers—I can't say whether Mr. Brewer was in the shop when the prisoners came in—there were several others sitting in the same box with them—I don't know where Monkwell-street is—I was first spoken to about this about four days after the affair—they came to me and told me I should be called upon to go up, and prove that these two parties were in the coffee-room at that time—two policemen also came and questioned me about it—I don't think it was more than four days afterwards that I was spoken to about it—I would not be certain; I am sure it was before the next Saturday night—I don't know the young man's name that came; I had never seen him before—I did not ask his name—he said the two parties that were in our house on the Saturday night had got into a scrape about some silk in the City, and would I go and prove that they were there, and as I knew they were there, I said, "Yes"—I had seen the prisoners at our place several times before—I went before Alderman Humphrey, but was not examined—I did not state that I was there to give evidence for the prisoners, because the Alderman said he should send them for trial, and there was no occasion for any witnesses—Mr. Lewis was there as attorney for the prisoners—I am able to say that the prisoners remained at our place from half-past 12 till 8 without leaving—they went into the yard about half-past 7 in the morning, and Merritt and another began tossing, and I put a stop to it directly, and said it was not allowed—we always clear up the shop about ten minutes to 8, to get ready for the day business, and request those

who are there to leave—the prisoners were there when I said that Mr. Brewer attends to the customers if I am out.

MR. DALEY. Q. Was it a week, or only three or four days after this night that the person came and spoke to you about it? A. It did not appear any more to me; I would not swear it was not a week.

COURT. Q. Did the person say he wanted to know whether you remembered the prisoners being there on Saturday? A. Yes; that was the last Saturday the prisoners were playing draughts, and a game they call cottam daring the night—they were in the habit of spending the night in our shop—no females came in with them—females will come in as well as men, but they don't stop.

JOSEPH WILLIAMS . I live at 30, Mate-street, Bethnal Green-road, and am a silk manufacturer—I know the prisoners—I remember seeing them on 29th November, at the Albion Coffee-house, from between 12 and 2, till about 8 in the morning, when I left them there—they were in the house during all that time.

Cross-examined. Q. Where is your silk manufactory? A. My father manufactures silk, and I help him—I sometimes stop out all night—I was first spoken to about giving evidence the week before last, when I was told the prisoners were in custody—I was not before the Alderman—it was Henry Gidgings who spoke to me—he is a waiter at the Sekforde Arms, Clerkenwell—I was at his house, and he told me about it—I have not known Hornby long—I have known Merritt about two years—I don't know how he has been getting his living—I was at the coffee-shop from 2 till 8 without leaving once.

COURT. Q. What were you about all that time? A. Playing draughts and cottam—there were six or seven of us there—the prisoners ware there when I went in—I am not very often there; sometimes two or three times a week, not all night—I call in and have a cup of coffee—if I do stop there it is mostly of a Saturday night—I live with my father—I know this was the 29th, because that was the night they were taken, as far as I was told—I don't know that there is anything which enables me to fix the date.

FREDERIC DENNY . I am a shoemaker, and live at 15, Twister's-alley, Bunhill-row—I know Merritt—I never saw Hornby before, that I know of—I saw Merritt on the evening of 29th November, at the Albion Coffeeshop, at a quarter to 1 in the morning—I think he came in after me; I don't know when he came in—I was in the kitchen, and he remained there till half-past 7 in the morning, when I left—I saw a man with him, but I cannot recognise Hornby.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. No; I was first spoken to about being a witness about a fortnight ago—Williams, the last witness, told me to come and give evidence—the Albion is not more than ten minutes' walk from Monkwell-street—I know it was the 29th that I saw Merritt there, because I was told they were had up for a robbery that night—I was told that two days afterwards.

COURT. Q. Do you mean that Williams told you that? A. No; they told me at the coffee-shop, on the Tuesday or Wednesday after; I am positive it was the week after the Saturday.


Reference Number: t18630105-196

196. CYRUS GRAY (33) , Feloniously wounding Joseph Dewiss, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

JOSEPH DEWISS . I am a labourer, of 15, Princes street, Whitechapel—the prisoner married my sister—on the night of 26th December, about 9

o'clock, I was at his house—there was some little altercation between him and his wife; she told me that he had got my father's money—he said be had not—we had a struggle, and I got him on to his bed—we fought together, and I gave him the eyes he has now—he then gave me the money out of his pocket—I was then leaving, and my little girl said, "Father, uncle has got a knife"—as soon as I heard that, I fought my way into the next room, and found myself bleeding—the prisoner went outside and called, "Police"—a policeman came, and I believe the prisoner was taken to the station—I was not conscious that I was struck with a knife at the time; I saw something brown in his hand, but I could not see, as he had pulled my head down on the bed—I had got the money from him at that time.

Prisoner. Q. Were you drunk or sober? A. I was not drunk; I might have had a pint of half-and-half and a drop of gin, but I was not inebriated—I was not sick out in the yard—I did not fall and strike my head against the brick wall—there was no dispute between me and my wife—I was not going to strike her.

EMILY DEWISS . I am eleven years old, and am the daughter of the last witness—I was in the room when my father and uncle were quarrelling—I saw that my father had got the money from my uncle; my uncle then took a knife out of his right-hand pocket, opened it with his teeth, and stabbed my father in the head with one hand, while he held him down by the hair of his head with the other—I cried out, "Oh, father, uncle has got a knife"—my father got himself off, and my uncle ran outside the street door, held by the knocker, and cried out, "Police."

Prisoner. Q. Did you see your father strike me? A. Yes, first; he did not take the money out of your pocket; yon gave it to him—I was not crying—I am blind with one eye.

JOHN TALBOT (Policeman, M 109). I was on duty in White-street on this evening—I heard a cry of police, and found the prisoner in the street, outside his own door—he told me he had been struck by the prosecutor, and wanted me to take him in charge—I went inside, and the prosecutor told me he had been stabbed at the back of the head by the prisoner—the prisoner said he did not do it; he said he had fallen against some bricks in the back yard—I searched the prisoner at the station, and found this knife on him.

JAMES ROLFE . I am divisional surgeon to the police—I was called to the station on the evening of 26th December, and found the prosecutor—he had an incised wound on the left posterior side of the head, an inch in length, laying bare a portion of the occipital bone—it was not a wound that could have been caused by falling upon bricks; it was a clear incised wound, done by a sharp instrument.

Prisoner's Defence. When I returned from my work about a quarter to 5, I found nobody at home; they were all at the public-house. I went over, and we had half a quartern of rum, and brought a gallon of beer home with us. As soon as we got in, the prosecutor began quarrelling with his wife, a usual thing with him. After same time he went out into the yard. My wife told me to go to him, as he was very sick. I went out to fetch him in. He was very drunk, and he knocked his head against the wall. When he came in he said to me, "Give me the old man's money, or I will knock your b—eyes out," and he struck me as I was sitting on the bed, and caused me these eyes. I could scarcely see out of them for a fortnight, and have almost lost the sight of one of them. He got me down, and took the money out of my pocket. In the scrimmage we both rolled off the bed,

and he struck his head against the iron fender, and that was the way he got his head cut; the fender is as sharp as a knife.

JOHN TALBOT (re-examined). There was an iron fender in the room; it bad no sharp edge to it—the prosecutor had been drinking, but was not drunk—I could not detect any blood on the blade of the knife.

JAMES ROLFE (re-examined). The wound could not have been caused by falling on a fender—it is not probable—it was a clean cut wound.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury in consequence of the provocation.— Confined Six Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-197

197. CATHERINE HAYES (25) , Stealing 14s., the moneys of James Chivers, from his person. MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES CHIVERS . I am a carman, and live at 5, John-street, Lambeth—on the night of 28th December, about twenty minutes past 10, I was in Aldgate, and met two women; the prisoner is one of them—she caught hold of my arm, and asked if I would have anything to drink with her—I said no, I had no money—the other woman caught hold of my other arm, and the prisoner slipped her hand in my pocket and drew out my purse—she dropped three two-shilling pieces—I stooped down and picked them up, and held the prisoner at the same time—the policeman came up directly and took her—the other got away—this (produced) is my purse—it had in it five two-shilling pieces, four sixpences, and two shillings.

Prisoner. It was the other woman that took the purse and threw it away, and when she got away he said he would have me instead. Witness. That is not so; it was the prisoner who took the purse.

HENRY BENNETT (City-policeman, 672). I saw the prosecutor holding the prisoner, and he gave her into my custody—I picked up the purse on the spot afterwards.

GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-198

198. JAMES JOHNSON (17) , Breaking and entering the shop of William Smee, and stealing 2 planes and other articles, his property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months.

NEW COURT.—Monday, January 5th, 1863.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18630105-199

199. ABIGAIL COOK (30) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-200

200. MARY ANN THOMPSON (33), was indicted for a like offence; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-201

201. ELIZABETH PIKE (26), was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CRAWFORD and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY BOWLES . I am a stationer, at 224, High Holborn—on 11th December, the prisoner came in for a cribbage-box—I gave her one, which was a shilling—she likewise bought a set of pegs, price threepence, fifteenpence altogether—she put down a bad half-crown—I took it up, bit it, told her it was bad, and asked her for another—she then gave me two good shillings

—I returned her the bad half-crown and the change for the two shillings—to the best of my knowledge, this is the cribbage-box—it was shown to me by the constable the next morning.

Cross-examined by MR. F. H. LEWIS. Q. Did she not tell you that she did not know the money was bad? A. No, she did not—I was examined at the police court.

COURT. Q. Did she say that she did not know it was bad? A. Not that I remember; I think not—this signature, "Henry Bowles," is my writing—(read: "She said she did not know it was bad, and she gave me two good shillings")—she might have said that—I said so at the police-court—I had disfigured the bad half-crown, but not materially injured it—I gave it her back, because she gave me good money.

JOSEPH HART . I am landlord of the Turk's Head public-house, Lower King-street, Holborn, within about three minutes walk from 224, High Holborn—on Wednesday, 20th December, the prisoner came in and asked for a go of rum—my sister served her—it is a very small bar—I was standing by her—the prisoner tendered to my sister a bad half-crown—she passed it to me, and said, "This is a bad one"—she is a very good judge of money—I put it between my teeth, and bit it in two—the prisoner had a good two-shilling piece in her hand, and as she saw me bite the half-crown, she offered the good two-shilling piece in payment while I was biting—I gave the small piece of the half-crown to the prisoner, and kept the large one—I told her it was bad, and she was rather impertinent—I said, "There now, drink your grog and be off"—I gave her one shilling, sixpence, and three penny pieces in change for the two shillings—she was very abusive—I told her to go about her business, as I did not wish to lock her up, but she was so abusive to me and my sister that I took her to the station myself, and gave her in custody, and I gave the bad half-crown to the superintendent.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not, at the time you told her to drink her grog and be off, intend to give her into custody? A. No; I thought of the loss of time, and the trouble it takes to prosecute these cases—my house is only just opened, and I have had two or three visits from them lately—I have some more pieces here.

JOHN MICHAEL CONNOR (Policeman, E 56). I produce a piece of a counterfeit half-crown, which I received from Mr. Hart, at the police-station, on 11th December—the prisoner was searched, and three shillings in silver; eightpence halfpenny in copper, a purse, an umbrella, and this cribbagebox found upon her—I showed the cribbage-box to Bowles the next morning.

Cross-examined. Q. You found three good shillings, did you not? A. The female searcher did—I found no sixpence on her—I did not search her.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is the fragment of a bad half-crown.

GUILTY .—She was further charged with having been before convicted of a like offence in January, 1860, in the name of Elizabeth Sparks , when the was sentenced to eighteen months' imprisonment; to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.**— Five Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-202

202. THOMAS PAUL (20), and JOSEPH FOOKES (17), were indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CRAWFORD and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN ORAM . I am an assistant at Messrs. Jackson and Walford's, booksellers, of St. Paul's Church-yard—on 29th December, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, a lad came into the shop, and asked for six copies of a tract

"Conformity and Non-conformity"—the price was a penny each (I don't swear to either of the prisoners)—he gave me a five-shilling piece, and I gave him a half-crown, two shillings, and three-halfpence in change—there is a discount of three-halfpence on purchasing six—I placed the crown in a bowl, where we keep the money—there was no other there—I afterwards looked at it when the constable came, and found it was bad—I should think that was about 5 o'clock—Mr. Walford, in my presence, gave the policeman the five-shilling piece that I had taken—I had not taken any other crown between the time of selling the tracts and the policeman coming in—I had been serving in the shop all the time—no one else was serving in the shop but me at that time—the six books were afterwards shown to me by a policeman—I believe they were the six copies I had sold—I had not sold any that day before, or after.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS (for Paul). Q. You sell a good many of those tracts, do you not? A. Not now; we used to sell a good many of them—somebody else served in the shop besides me that afternoon—the six copies I saw were not different from any other copies we have in the shop now.

Cross-examined by MR. LAXTON (for Fookes). Q. When did you look at the bowl? A. When the policeman came—I did not know what money was in it.

MR. CRAWFORD. Q. Have you any idea, without swearing, whether the lad who came into the shop is in this Court now? A. I believe that Fookes is the boy—I am quite sure there was no other crown in the bowl when I put this one in.

MR. LAXTON. Q. Have you said before that you thought it was Fookes? A. Yes; I said so at the time, but I would not swear to either of them—I did not notice his dress—he was only two or three minutes in the shop—I don't recollect whether he had his coat buttoned or open when he came.

WILLIAM HENRY BROOM . I am a bookseller, of 47, St. Paul's Church-yard—that is on the opposite side to Watford's, close to Cheapside—Walford's is between Ludgate hill and Cannon-street—between 4 and 5 o'clock, on 29th December, Fookes came in, and asked for six Good News almanacs, which are a penny a-piece—he gave me a crown, and I gave him 4s. 6d. in silver—I was not sure at the time whether I gave him the three-halfpence discount, but he acknowledged at Guildhall that I did—he took the almanacs and change, and left the shop—I doubted the crown at the time he gave it me—I threw it in the till, took it out immediately, and ran out of the shop, but I went the wrong way, and did not see him—there were several small pieces of silver in the till, but no other crown—he went out very quickly—a few minutes afterwards a lad, who saw him hand me the crown, came and said something to me—I directly went to Jarrold's shop, in Paternoster-row—that was not more than ten minutes after Fookes left—I saw him looking into Kent's shop, just below Jarrold's, on the opposite side—the one who was in Jarrold's shop was not the one who had passed the bad crown to me—I can't say he was looking straight at anything—he did not see me coming up to him—I went behind him, put my hand on his shoulder, and said, "You passed a bad 5s. piece at my shop, a little while ago"—he said that he did not—I cannot remember the exact words; he signified that he knew nothing about it, and then ran away as fast as he could down the Row, and turned down a passage—I did not overtake him—I saw him stopped by a number of persons—I gave him into custody, and afterwards gave the crown to the constable—Fookes was then taken to Jarrold's shop

—I went there with him and saw the other prisoner, who had been detained there—I saw him searched—he had a parcel with him, and I said, "What have you got in your parcel?"—he opened it, and turned out six Good News almanacs—there is no particular mark by which I could identify them—they had a piece of brown paper thrown over them—I asked him how he got them, and he said a boy gave them to him to keep dry—it is my own almanac, which I publish—I had sold several that day, but not six together, and I had been in the shop the whole day—several other things were found upon him, but not of my publication.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. What sort of an almanac is it? A. It is a small book, and I have it in sheet also—those that I sold to the boy were in books—I can't tell you what number I have sold altogether—I can't tell what number I published—I have sold 100—I can't tell whether I have sold 200—my shopman serves in my shop besides me; nobody else—I cannot tell how many he may have sold—the parcel that Paul had, included two newspapers, I believe, besides the tracts that have been mentioned—I sell quantities of tracts—I never had the tract called "Conformity and Non-conformity" in my shop.

Cross-examined by MR. LAXTON. Q. Had you ever seen Fookes before? A. No—I do not know that he sells papers and tracts about the street——I think I said before, that he went out of the shop rather quickly; I am not positive—there was nothing particular, but he did go out quickly.

MR. CRAWFORD. Q. Were any Good News almanacs found on Fookes? A. No, they were on Paul.

WILLIAM GREEN (City-policeman, 230). I was on duty in Paternoster-row, on 29th December—about 5 o'clock in the evening I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I saw several people running, joined in the pursuit, and saw the prisoner Fookes stopped in Paved-passage, Paternoster-row, by a butcher—I took him in custody, and then to Mr. Jarrold's shop—I there searched him, and found 11s. on him; a half-crown, eight shillings, a sixpence, a penknife, a comb, and a silk watch guard and key—Mr. Brown was with me—I have heard what he has stated, it is correct—another constable took Paul.

Cross-examined by MR. LAXTON. Q. Fookes gave you a correct address did he not? A. Yes, and I found out where he lived by that—I was told that he goes about the street selling papers and tracts; he lives with his mother.

JAMES LAWS . I am in the employment of Messrs. Jarrold, of Paternosterrow—on Monday, 29th December, about twenty minutes to 5, Paul came to their shop and asked for two tracts called, "Starting in Life," which are twopence each—he gave me in payment a bad crown—I asked him where be got it from, and he said it was given to him by his master, Mr. Smith, a news-agent, near the Elephant and Castle—I told him I did not believe it, and sent for a constable—I gave him into custody with the crown, which I bent first—whilst I was waiting for a policeman Fookes was brought in—I have heard what the other witness said with regard to searching him; that is correct.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Are a large number of tracts sold by you? A. Yes; to sell again in the street.

WILLIAM DANCER (City-policeman, 403). I was called into Mr. Jarrold's shop about a quarter to 5, found Paul there, and took him into custody—I searched him, and found threepence halfpenny in coppers, six Good News almanacs, six tracts, "Conformity and Non-conformity," and four newspapers—I asked him where he got them from—he said he bought the almanacs of a lad

in the street, for a penny—I asked him where he got the tracts—he said he had bought them some time previously—he did not say where—just as I was going to leave the shop Fookes was brought in—I produce three counterfeit crowns—I received one from the last witness, one from Mr. Brown, and the other from Mr. Walford.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Paul gave you a correct address, did he not? A. He did—I did not find any tract called "Starting in Life" upon him.

COURT to JAMES LAWS. Q. Did he take the two tracts, "Starting in Life?" A. No, I did not let him have them, because I discovered the money was bad.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These crowns are all bad, and from the same mould The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows:—Paul says, "Nothing, only settle it here." Fookes says, "I took one of the crowns from a gentleman, and I did not have the other one. I have got a good character. I only had one."

Fookes received a good character.

GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months each.

Reference Number: t18630105-203

203. WILLIAM TAYLOR (30) , Feloniously marrying Sarah Ellen Holten, his wife being alive; to which he


The prosecutrix stated that the prisoner had brutally ill-used her, and threatened to murder her; that she gave him in custody for ill-using her, and he was sentenced to a month's hard labour, during which she discovered his previous marriage. The officer stated that the prisoner threatened at Marlborough-street Police-court to have his revenge on the prosecutrix, even if it were six years tocome.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT.—Monday, January 5th, 1863.


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18630105-204

204. FREDERICK WOOD (35), Was indicted for unlawfully exposing for sale 300 lbs. weight of meat unfit for human food.

MESSRS. SLEIGH and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM WYLDE . I am a meat-inspector at Newgate-market, and hare been so about ten months; before that I was a salesman in Newgate-market—I am well acquainted with meat—I know the defendant; he is a salesman of Tylor's-market, adjoining Newgate-market—on Wednesday, 22d. October, about 6 in the morning, I went to his shop—he was not there—I saw four quarters of a cow hanging on the hooks inside the shop—I examined them and found they were four quarters of a cow, which had been suffering from lung disease; the flesh was wet, and was highly inflamed—it had been stripped on both sides of the ribs—the meat in between the ribs was highly inflamed, and the kidneys very much enlarged—I should think they were twice the size of an ordinary animal's in full health—the ribs were skinned; that is not done when an animal is killed in a proper state of health—when adhesion of the lung has taken place it is stripped off to hide the appearance of disease—the inner surface of the ribs had been rubbed over with warm fat; that would have a tendency to conceal adhesion to some extent—any person at all acquainted with the trade must have seen the state the animal

was in—in my opinion it was totally unfit for human food—I noticed it on that account—I saw Mr. Wood about 7 or half-past on that morning—I told him he should not have had such meat brought up to market—he said be had not seen it, he was not aware it was bad, or he would not have had it brought there—the first thing he said was, that he had not seen it since it was dressed—I saw him next morning about 8 or half-past, near the shop—he made the remark then, that it was a very bad job, he was a poor man and had a large family.

COURT. Q. Was that in reference to this affair? A. Yes—I don't think I spoke to him at all—he volunteered that statement.

MR. BESLEY. Q. Was this same meat inspected by Dr. Letheby, by Mr. Fisher, Mr. Davidson, and Mr. Newman? A. Yes, the same day that I saw it—I took it to Guildhall-yard and saw them inspecting it—when Mr. Wood made the observation about its being a bad job, it had been inspected by Dr. Letheby and condemned.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose there is a great deal of cow-beef sold? A. Yes—there would be no objection to it on that account—I made inquiries about who slaughtered the animal—a person named Turner, in the employment of Mr. Packman, brought it to be slaughtered—I don't know whether Turner is here—he has been subpœnaed—I don't know by whose direction—I was informed that the defendant bad bought the animal of a cow keeper in Tottenham-court-road—I inquired if that was true, and the person denied it, and said it was his brother—I don't know whether he or his brother is here—I have not seen them—the man's name is Bannister.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ascertain where this cow was slaughtered? A. Yes; at Mr. Packman's, New Cattle-market—I also ascertained that the person who slaughtered it, or who assisted to dress it, was a person named Wheeler—he has been subpœnaed—I have not seen him here.

DR. HENRY LETHEBY . I am medical officer of the City of London—on 22d. October, I was called upon to examine the four quarters of a cow; the three inspectors were there at the time—the meat was in a very bad state from disease—it was emaciated, charged with disease, serum, as they term it, wet—the animal had suffered from inflammation of the lungs and pleura at the time of death—the person who had dressed the meat, had removed the diseased portion as far as he possibly could; that is the pleura lining the ribs—the surface had been smeared with warm fat, which gives it a somewhat smooth appearance, resembling the natural condition of the pleura—the meat was not fit for human food—the diseased state of the animal was, in my opinion, perceptible to the eye of an experienced person—it was condemned.

Cross-examined. Q. What was the matter with this cow? A. Inflammation of the lungs and pleura—the kidneys were very much enlarged; that arises from many causes—it arises from congestion of the kidneys—I have noticed that cows which have been kept in cow-houses, and fed on uncommon food, have very great enlargement of the kidneys—from the emaciated condition of the animal, I should say that inflammation must have lasted a week or ten days; an active inflammation resulting afterwards in very severe appearances—I believe the cow had been killed.

SAMUEL BRITTON . I am foreman to Mr. Greatorex, a meat-salesman, of Newgate-market—on Thursday, 23d October, I was in Packman's slaughter-house, Metropolitan Cattle-market—I saw a cow hanging up there, and I saw the defendant there—I knew him before—he was talking to a man named

Wheeler—I did not take notice of the conversation—I saw Mr. Wood skewer the cow's dug or udder; it was dressed at that time—I did not see any of the parts that were taken away—I did not say a word to Mr. Wood with reference to the cow, nor about the state in which it was, nor did he say anything to me about it—that was between 11 and 12 in the day—the cow was hanging in the slaughter-house—it is lofty and well lighted—I was about a yard and a half from the cow—I said it was a very bad one; it was a bad one—I mean by that, that in my opinion it was unfit for human food.

COURT. Q. Whom did you say that to? A. Wheeler—the defendant did not hear me say so.

Cross-examined. Q. You had helped to dress it, had you not? A. No—I never told Wood it was a very bad one—he was not there at the time I said that—the cow was killed and dressed before he saw it.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. And it was dressed before he skewered it? A. Yes. John Wheeler and Frank Tyler were called on their recognizances, but did not answer.


OLD COURT.—Tuesday, January 6th, 1863.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-205

205. JOHN JONES (18) , Stealing 1 scarf 1 jacket, 1 muffler, and 10 handkerchiefs, the property of Francis Thomas Morley and another, his masters. MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.

FRANCIS THOMAS MORLEY . I am a warehouseman, at 1, Wood-street—the prisoner was in my employ for about two months—during that time we missed property—the prisoner's duty was simply to deliver goods—he did not sell—these mufflers (produced) have formed a portion of our stock—I have missed such articles—the prisoner has never accounted to me for anything sold—he had no authority to sell—I have a customer, named Watts, of Skinner-street, Somers-town—I supplied him with some mufflers—they were taken to him by the prisoner—the pencil mark on this invoice is in the prisoner's writing—he has never returned to us the articles mentioned in the invoice; if they had been returned by Mr. Watts, it would be the prisoner's duty to bring them back, and we should then give Mr. Watts credit for them in the credit book, and send him a credit note—that has not been done.

GEORGE WATTS . I carry on business in Skinner-street, Somers-town—I buy my goods of Mr. Morley—in November, I ordered some goods from him—I returned these mufflers by the prisoner, who brought them, and he wrote this on the invoice in my presence.

FRANCIS MERRICK . I am a machinist, at 1, Rolls-court, Fore-street—about ten weeks ago I saw the prisoner at a public-house—a man named Welsh was there—this worsted jacket was lying on the table—the prisoner picked it up, took it to Welsh, and showed it to him, and said, "That is the jacket you want"—he tried it on, and said, "How much?"—the prisoner said, "Half a crown;" and Welsh paid it to him.

HENRY SMITH . I live at King's Head-court—I know the prisoner by seeing him about where I live—about 4th November, he gave me this scarf for taking a parcel for him into the Edgware-road.

ELIZABETH CHELSTORD . I live in the neighbourhood of Bethnal-green—I have known the prisoner about two months—he has visited me for five nights—he left a piece of ten handkerchiefs in my possession—this is one of them—they were new and unhemmed—I sold a portion of them—I have been able to get this one back again.

COURT. Q. Did you know that he was in employment? A. Yes, but I did not know where—I was not aware that he had come by them dishonestly.

CHARLES MERCER (City-policeman, 175). I got this scarf from Henry Smith—I took the prisoner into custody—I asked him at the station where he got the jacket and scarf—he said he had got them down "the lane"—he afterwards said, "They are the only two I have taken."

Prisoner's Defence. I have been in the habit of giving the witness Smith parcels to take; he was present when I met the girl Chelsford; it was Smith who sold the jacket to Welsh; I charged him with it, and he told me it was no use my saying anything, for I should only get myself into trouble for giving him parcels to take; he offered the potboy 5s. to come and swear against me.

HENRY SMITH (re-examined). I can't say what the parcel contained that he employed me to take—I have often carried parcels for him—the first was one evening when he was going to the play—he gave me sixpence to take it to Islington—another night he gave me fivepence to take one to Bishopsgatestreet; the same as he has other boys in the street—I had not spoken to the prisoner for two months before this—he persuaded me to stop out with him one night, and I got discharged from my apprenticeship in consequence—as to my having the jacket, it is utterly false, nor did I offer the potboy, or any one, 5s. to come against him.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-206

206. GEORGE DAY (19), and SUSAN LIGHT (18) , Feloniously assaulting George Myers, with intent to rob him.

MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE MYERS . I am a printer, and live at 2, Breams-buildings, Chancery-lane—on the morning of 23d December, about 1 o'clock, I was coming down Carey-street, Lincoln's-inn-fields, and at the corner of Careystreet, I was accosted by two men and two women—the prisoners are two of the parties—they knocked me down immediately they accosted me—it was Day and the other man that struck me—I got partly up, and caught hold of Day, held him, and called out for the police, and in a very short time the policeman came and took him into custody—I was holding him at arms length, and he was striking at me all the time, and the female prisoner was kicking me, and trying to take whatever I had away from me—she kicked me several times while I was on my back—the other man and woman got away—I was quite sober.

Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. Are you a master printer? A. Yes—I had been at business that evening, at a printing-office in Drury-lane, from 8 o'clock up to about 1—I had had nothing to drink—it was at the corner of Plough-court that I was accosted—I fancy it was the other man that accosted me—I don't know what was said, for I was knocked down so suddenly—I don't know Day at all—I don't know that he is a printer—I did not speak to the women first—I swear that the two men attacked me first, and the women came to the rescue—they took nothing from me.

COURT. Q. Was any attempt made to take anything? A. Yes—whilst

I lay on my back Day unbuttoned my coat at the top, and his hand was first on one side, and then on the other, but fortunately I had nothing in either pocket.

WILLIAM WHELAN (Policeman, F 18). About 1 o'clock in the morning of 23d December, I was in Chancery-lane—I heard the cry of "Police!" in Carey-street, went up, and found the prosecutor struggling with Day; Light was trying to pull Day from him; at the same time she was kicking the prosecutor as he was in the act of getting up—I seized her, and the prosecutor gave them both into my custody—on the way to the station, and in the station, Day told me that he had gone away from the girl for a minute or two, and when he came back he found Mr. Myers with his arms round her neck, and that was the reason he struck him.

Cross-examined. Q. Were any more persons there? A. There were some persons at the bottom of the court—I could not see how many; my attention was directed to the prisoners and prosecutor—I noticed the prosecutor's coat; it was dirty at the back, and unbuttoned—he was perfectly sober.



Four Years' Penal servitude each.

Reference Number: t18630105-207

207. JOHN CROSLEY (39) , Feloniously setting fire to a stack of hay, the property of Thomas Jelly.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN JELLY . I manage the Grove Farm, Kentish-town, for my father—about half-past 2 o'clock on 1st January, my attention was called, by a maid servant, to one of the stacks in my father's yard—I ran to the spot, and found it on fire, on the side farthest from the house—there were two more stacks in front of it—the thatch of the stack caught—there was not much of the stack itself actually burnt—about two loads were destroyed.

JOSEPH SANDERS . I am a labourer in Mr. Jelly's employ—on 1st June, about 5 minutes past 2, I was feeding the cows at the farm—I saw the prisoner there, within about fifty yards of the stack, which was then on fire—he had a short pipe, in full light, smoking.

ROBERT EDWARDS (Policeman, S 100). On 1st January, about 2 o'clock, I was on duty in the Kentish-town-road, and saw one of Mr. Jelly's ricks on fire—in consequence of information, I stopped the prisoner—I said I believed he was the man that set fire to the stack—he said, "Yes; I did it through want."

Prisoner's Defence (written). I have been for six years employed in Her Majesty's dockyards, Portsmouth and Woolwich, but marrying young, and having a sickly wife, I was unable to save but little of my earnings; so, when the Admiralty came to discharge so many of us, it found me with a wife and two children dying. I buried them, and endeavoured to get employment, but could not. I applied to the parish; they gave me stone-breaking. I earned eightpence in four days, and was then obliged to give it up, my hands being so bad. Hearing that my mother's brother had a farm at Highgate, I came to find him out. I went into this field, where the haystacks belonging to the prosecutor were standing, for a necessary purpose. After that, I was lighting my pipe, when the stack caught fire. I was frightened, and ran away. I pray you to have mercy on me; I have three small children, and no one but the parish to see to them when I am gone.

ROBERT EDWARDS (re-examined). I did not know the prisoner at all

before this—I have made inquiries at Woolwich dockyard—he was never employed there.

GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-208

208. ANDREW FELL (27) , Stealing 1 cwt. 1 qr. 5 lbs. weight of lead, the property of the Scottish Hospital, fixed to a building.

THOMAS INGLIS . I am collector to the Scottish Hospital, of the foundation of King Charles the Second—the premises, 18, Fleur de Lis-court, Fetter-lane, belong to them—the prisoner was employed to do some repairs there—some lead was afterwards missing from the roof, and a lead cistern was stolen on the night of 11th December.

Prisoner. Q. Was I employed on the 11th? A. No, not till the 15th—I did not hear of the lead being missed from the roof till the 27th or 28th.

JAMES DOWNEY . I live in Plough-court, Fetter-lane—I was working under the prisoner, in December last, at 18, Fleur de Lis court—on 20th December he told me to get a chisel, and go up and take some lead off the gutter, in the parapet—I told him I could not do it, and he went and got a jemmy and a hammer, and I went and got a candle, and held it while he did it—he told me to roll it up and put it in a basket, which I did—he then told me to carry it with him—I did so, to 24, Earl-street, Seven-dials, and put it in the scale—when it was weighed he told me to leave the shop, and I did so.

COURT. Q. Did you know it was wrong? A. No—I heard in the morning that it was to be taken to the shed belonging to the society—I refused to do it because I could not do it by myself in the dark.

JOSEPH LEWIS . I am a lead merchant, at 23 and 24, Little Earl-street—I know the prisoner from bringing this lead to sell on December 1st, 11th, 18th, and 20th—on the 11th he brought 3 qrs. 19 lbs., for which I gave 15s. 10d.; on 18th, 1 qr. 12 lbs.; on the 20th, 1 cwt 2 qrs., and 1 qr. 18 lbs.—I gave him 18s. per cwt, the market value.

JAMES SOUTAR . I am assistant to Mr. Donaldson, architect and surveyor—I have been superintending some repairs at 18, Fleur de Lis-court, Fetter-lane—the prisoner was employed to do those repairs from 15th December to the 23d or 24th—I did not give him permission to take away any lead from the premises; he had no authority to take any—I have examined the roof, and seen that some has been removed from there—he was employed to repair the roof—he was to do any repairs he considered necessary, as he had said there were some broken slates—he had no authority to do anything to the lead, and he charged nothing for it—he has not put any new lead where the old was taken away.

Prisoner. Q. Was I not to do what was requisite to make a good sound roof? A. Of course—it is possible the lead may have been worm-eaten—you put tiles and cement instead of the lead—I do not find fault so much with that, as I do with your cutting off the gutters and loosening the parapet—you plastered it up in cement, but left gaps through which the water came.

COURT. Q. What do you say as to the sink? A. We do not wish to charge him with that—I did not know it was in the indictment—we only charge him with the lead in the gutter—three hundredweight was sold altogether—between one and two hundredweight was taken from the roof—I never saw the sink.

JOSEPH LEWIS (re-examined.) I can't say what state the lead was in—I can't say whether it was worm-eaten—we receive such quantities, and we

send it away by tons every week—it goes to the mills to be made into new lead.

GEORGE FLOYD (Policeman, F 19). I took the prisoner into custody—he said he had taken the lead in substitution for the tiles and cement.

JAMES DOUNEY (re-examined.) I know nothing about the sink——I was not employed by the prisoner till the 19th, and the sink was gone on the 11th—I should think the lead that was taken was in a very good state—not worm-eaten—it seemed very sound.

Prisoner's Defence. The whole affair as to this charge against me is between Douney and another man, who gave me in charge; he appeared against me at Guildhall, but is not here; he wanted to charge me a shilling a-piece for hanging paper, and he spoilt four pieces out of twenty; I would not allow him for it, and be said he would make it up another way, and charge me with stealing a quantity of lead; he went to the policeman, and the policeman came, and I explained to him how it had occurred, and went with him to the station; if I had intended to steal the lead, why did I employ one of my own labourers to assist me in taking it to the man's house; he saw me receive the money, and give my name and address; I had the keys of the place, and could have done it myself at any time; I made no charge in my bill for the tiles and cement, but made allowance for it on account of the old lead.

GEORGE FLOYD (re-examined.) It was the paper-hanger who gave the prisoner in charge to me—I don't know his name—he is not here—he was at Guildhall.

The prisoner received a good character from Richard William White, a sergeant in the City-police.


Reference Number: t18630105-209

209. WILLIAM BARNETT WARD (19) , Unlawfully obtaining 38 books from John Purday, by false pretences.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN PURDAY . I am clerk to Messrs. Routledge and Son, of Farringdon-street—on 30th September, the prisoner eame and asked for a copy of "Staunton's Shakespere," in three vols., a copy of "Tennyson's Princess," "Russell's India," and two other volumes—he said they were for Mr. Wibley, of Bayswater—that Mr. Wibley had sent him—he had a book similar to this (produced) with him—it is what is called a collecting book—I gave him the books, amounting to 3l. 2s. 3d., believing that he came from Mr. Wibley, who has been a customer of ours for some years—on 11th October he came again—he came several times between that period and 13th November, and obtained upwards of eighty-three volumes—I asked him on each occasion from whom he came, and he said on each occasion the goods were for Mr. Wibley—in consequence of that I let him have the goods, believing that he came from Mr. Wibley.

Prisoner. Q. Did I ever produce any written order? A. No; you never did.

THOMAS EDWARD WIBLEY . I am a bookseller, at 2, Westbourne-street, Bishop's-road, Bayswater—I have dealt with Messrs. Routledge for some years—I do not know the prisoner—I never sent him to Messrs. Routledge for any books.

Prisoner. Q. Have you been shown a signature in Mr. Darton's book? A. Yes; I did not recognise that signature as that of a person in my employ.

JOHN BILBEY (City-policeman, 372). I took the prisoner into custody on

17th December, at Messrs. Routledge's—I found this red book in his possession—some of the leaves have been torn out.

Prisoner's Defence. I was sent in by a party who I believe worked for Mr. Wibley; he had left him, but I believed at the time that he was in Mr. Wibley's employ; that same party went into Messrs. Darton's, in Holborn, and signed the name of "E. Allen," to their book; I have also seen him go into other publishers' offices, so that I had no hesitation in going to Messrs. Routledge's when he asked me, believing that the books were for him.

MR. WIBLEY (re-examined.) I never had a person of the name of Allen in my employment.

JOHN BILBEY (re-examined.) The prisoner told me he was sent in by a man—we asked him how long he had known that man—he said, "Between four and five years"—he did not know his name, or where he lived.

Prisoner. I don't know whether Allen is his right name—I worked for a bookseller who served Mr. Wibley, and I knew the man as serving in Mr. Wibley's shop—our acquaintance dropped then, until I accidentally met him again.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months..

There were three other indictments against the prisoner.

Reference Number: t18630105-210

210. CHARLES FOX (25) , Feloniously wounding Francisco Placido, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES RIVERS . I am a sailor, living at 108, St. George's-street—on Saturday night, 13th December, about half-past 11, I was in the street near a public-house, and saw a fight going on with the prisoner and an Austrian chap—the Austrian was drunk—the prisoner left him and went home, and came back with a knife, and I saw him stick the knife into Placido's left shoulder—I knew Placido before—there was some likeness it him to the Austrian—it was about half-past 11 when the prisoner was fighting with the Austrian, and it was after 12 that he struck Placido—there were two more men with the prisoner at the time—one of them struck Placido in the face—the other knocked him down, and then the prisoner stabbed him with the knife.

FRANCISCO PLACIDO . I am a sailor, and lodge in the same house as the last witness—on Saturday night, 13th December, about 12 o'clock, I was in a public-house, along with a Portuguese and some girls—when I came out I saw the prisoner—he said, "How much money have you got? "—I said, "I have no money"—he then struck me—I said, "What do you strike me for"—another man then struck me, and another, and the prisoner struck me on my left shoulder—I don't know what with—I went to protect another man from the prisoner, and then he struck me with a knife—they all three then ran away—I am sure it was the prisoner who struck me with the knife—I pointed him out the next day—I stopped in the hospital Saturday night and Sunday, and came out on Monday morning.

WILLIAM AMBROSE (Policeman, H 38). On Saturday night, 20th December, the prosecutor came to me, and I went with him to a beer-shop in Shipalley—he pointed out the prisoner and said, "That is the man that stabbed me on the Saturday previous"—the prisoner said, "I don't know anything about it"—I found a knife upon him.

CHARLES RIVERS (re-examined.) I saw the knife in the prisoner's hand—the was a sheath-knife—a sailor's knife—this (produced) is like it—I heard

some man ask Placido if he had got any money, and be said, "No"—I don't know who it was.

JAMES APPLEYARD . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—I saw the prosecutor on Sunday morning, 14th December, and found an incised wound in his back, about two inches deep—the knife had entered in an oblique direction, and come in contact with one of the ribs, and glided along the rib—if it had entered in a direct line, and gone into the cavity of the chest, it would have placed his life in imminent danger—as it was there was only one-eighth of an inch between the wound and the cavity of the chest—he was with us two or three days—there were no inflammatory symptoms—he wished to be discharged as his ship was going to sea.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-211

211. JOHN BROWN (21) , Feloniously wounding Henry Ricketts, with intent to do him. some grievous bodily harm.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY RICKETTS . I am a traveller, at 14, Horsford-street, Hackney-road—on the evening of 9th December, I was in the George and Dragon public-house in the Hackney-road—the prisoner was with me—we were both very drunk—I challenged to fight him, and he me—the landlord put us both out of the house—I afterwards felt some stabs—I don't know who did it—I was taken to the hospital in a cab, and was there till 24th December—I am getting well now—I found some blood all over my clothes next morning—I was very drunk—I don't know who the person was who Stabbed me.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you always been on good terms with the prisoner? A. Yes; very good—I never had any quarrel with him before—this was only through the drink—perhaps I insulted him first—we were very drunk indeed—there were a lot of people in the public-house, and there was a good deal of quarrelling amongst them—the landlord shoved us all out.

EDWARD GANNET . I am a cab proprietor, at King's-road, Hoxton—I was at this public-house on 9th December—the prosecutor and prisoner were both there drinking—Ricketts challenged the prisoner to fight for a sovereign—he put down one sovereign, and the prisoner put down another—we were all turned out of the house together—the prisoner asked for his sovereign, and the prosecutor said, "I have got it; get it if you can"—high words ensued, and the prisoner struck a blow—I thought that he struck with a knife—he put his hand under his cape, took something out, and struck him four times—he then ran away—some gentleman went up to seize him, but he was drunk too, and fell down in the mud, and the prisoner got away.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you been drinking that night? A. Most decidedly—I had bad a little; in fact, I had been dealing—I might have been drunk—there were seven or eight of us—there was a great deal of quarrelling amongst the whole lot—I don't think I should like to swear that I saw a knife—I saw something that I thought like a knife—I saw the prosecutor take up the prisoner's sovereign.

COURT. Q. Did anyone but the prisoner strike the prosecutor? A. They might have done while they were being turned out of the house—I did not see anybody.

SUSAN WICKES . I am the wife of William Wickes, an ostler, of 6, Hackney-road—on the night of 9th December, I was passing this public

house—I saw the prisoner and prosecutor quarrelling—there was a mob of persons—the prosecutor was bleeding—I did not see what caused it—I saw the prisoner make two blows at him, and they both fell in the road together—the prisoner had something in his hand—I don't know what it was—I saw him strike at the prosecutor twice, but whether he struck him or not I could not say—I did not hear him say anything—I have been bound over to appear here—I don't recollect the prisoner holding up anything, and saying, "Who is next?"—I contradicted that at Worship-street—it was put down that I had said so, and I told the gentleman that I had not—I have not been spoken to by any friends of the prisoner.

COURT. Q. Did you see the prisoner take anything from his pocket? A. No; the man was bleeding—the mob was between us—I was so flurried I hardly knew what I did see—I was merely passing by on an errand.

EDWARD FITZGERALD (Policeman, M 554). On the night of 9th December, I was in the Hackney-road, and heard cries of "Murder!" and "Police!"—I went up to this public-house, and saw the prosecutor there bleeding—the prisoner was pointed out to me about twenty or thirty yards the other side of the road—I went towards him—he ran away—I followed, and succeeded in taking him—I told him I should take him into custody for stabbing a man—he said, "I did not do it; search me; I have got no knife"—I did search him, and found no knife.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was this? A. About half-past 10 at night.

CHARLES HENRY HUMPHREY . I am house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—on the night of 9th December, I saw the prosecutor there—he was wounded in four places—one wound was over the left shoulder, about two inches in length, and an inch in depth—one on the same side, between the eighth and ninth rib, about an inch and a half in length, and the same in depth; a small one on the right side of the abdomen, and one on the back of the left-hand—they were wounds likely to be made with a sharp knife—they were incised wounds—he bled a good deal—they were not serious wounds, but were near dangerous places.

Cross-examined. Q. Was his life in any danger? A. Not at all—he was very drunk when he was brought to the hospital.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-212

212. HARRY ROSS (52) , Unlawfully obtaining 136 table cloths, the property of William Moorhead, by false pretences. Second Count, for a conspiracy. MESSRS. SLEIGH and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

MART PARSONS . I am a widow, and am housekeeper at 5, Lawrence Pountney-lane—in June or July last the prisoner came about taking some offices—I don't recollect the date—he said he wanted them for the business of a general merchant—he gave the name of Lovell—I took in a letter to him one morning just after he had taken the offices—I said, "A letter for Mr. Lovell"—he said, "Oh, yes, all right"—I said, "You are Mr. Lovell," and he said, "Yes"—he did not give me any name when he first came, I showed him the office then, and after he had been to see the landlord I gave him the key—the name of "Lovell, Son, and Co." was written up afterwards—I never knew him by any other name than Lovell—he occupied the offices three months—he was there every day; there was another man besides there, I knew him by the name of Clark; he used to be there constantly; he used to write—I never saw any one else in the occupation of the offices,

except him and the prisoner—he left about five weeks before he was taken into custody—I did not know of his leaving—it was after the rent was due that he left—we never got any rent.

Cross-examined by MR. KEMP Q. Is the landlord here? A. No—I am the housekeeper, and have the offices to show—I live there—I never saw any other Mr. Lovell there, except the prisoner—I could not see everybody who came in and out of the place—I saw persons when I was up and down stairs—I am there all day.

FREDERICK ANSTEY . I am in the employ of Mr. Walmsley, of 155, Borough—I produce three dozen table napkins pawned by the prisoner, on 13th October, for one guinea—I have six table cloths pledged on 14th October, for 30s., on 7th November, three table cloths for 30s., on 17th November, one table cloth for 10s., and on 20th, another for 10s., all by the prisoner, in the name of Ross—the duplicates produced by the officer are those which I gave.

WILLIAM MOORHEAD . I am manager for Richard Bell and others, at 1,' Noble-street, City—it is a Belfast house, and I manage their business in London—on 26th September, I went to No. 5, Lawrence Pountney-lane, with this letter, which I had received from Belfast, by post—I went to the second floor and asked for Mr. Lovell—I saw a person there; he did not seem to be doing anything; there was no desk in the outer office—previous to going up stairs, I had observed the name of Lovell, Son, and Co. on the door-post—I was shown into an inner room—the prisoner is the person to whom I was referred as Mr. Lovell—I had this letter in my hand, and told him that I had called in reference to some samples which he had written' about, to our house in Belfast—he said he did not understand that we had a house in London, and he would call up during the day and pick the samples out—(the letter being read, was dated 22d September, 1862, from Lovell, Son, and Co. to R. Bell and Co. requesting them to forward samples and prices of damask table cloths)—In the coarse of the day, the prisoner called in Noble-street, and picked out some samples of napkins and cloths, which he said he wished sent round at once, as he had a customer waiting to see them, that they were for shipment—he selected samples to the value of about 7l. or 8l. and there were two pieces selected on the following day—they were sent to Lawrence Pountney-lane with this invoice—the prisoner called next day, and brought this order with him for fifteen dozen napkins, &c.—it amounted to over 90l—I asked him how he wished those goods made up—he said, "In the usual way, for shipment"—I told him I should have to order them from Belfast, and they would be up in a few days—I told him it was customary that we should have references from a new firm—he said, "It was stupid in me not to give it you, I have it in my pocket—I wrote it out before I left the office"—this (produced) is the paper that he handed to me—it is a reference to a person of the name of Whichelow—I made no inquiry about Whichelow until recently—I don't think anything was said then, about the mode of payment—I saw him again on Friday, 10th October—there had previously been a correspondence between us—I then saw him at 5, Lawrence Pountney-lane—the goods had then arrived and were delivered—I called for the cash according to agreement, which the letters will show—it was to be a cash transaction on delivery.

THOMAS SMART . I am an officer of the City detective force—I took the prisoner into custody, and searched his lodgings—I found these papers amongst others—I asked him if they were his, and he said they were—he, was present when I found them—I found all these—(a letter was here put in

dated 29th September, 1862, from Bell and Co. to Lovell, Son, and Co. requesting further references, or cash on delivery, for the first transaction).

WILLIAM MOORHEAD (re-examined). When I called upon the prisoner, I took with me this account, and presented it to him; there is a receipt stamp on it—the gross amount of the account is 108l. 17s. 7d., deducting the discount it would be 105l. 1s. 5d.—I had previously received a reply to the letter which has been read—I don't know the prisoner's handwriting—nothing was said in our conversation on 10th October, about this particular letter—he said he did not understand it to be a cash transaction—I said that the letters would clearly show that it was a cash transaction—I saw him again on the 11th, and then said, "I must insist on either having the money or the goods"—he said he wanted to have a month to pay it in—I said he could not have it; that I must insist on the cash—he then wanted to have ten days—he said, if I would call down in ten days, he would see me paid down in gold—he looked at the almanack, and said that would be on Monday the 20th, that it was a very good day to pay, and he would see me made all right, and I need not feel uneasy about it—I came out of the premises, not knowing what to do, and when I had got a short distance I turned back, with the intention of turning the goods out of the premises—I met the prisoner, as I was going back, and told him I must either have the goods or money now—he said, "You see the goods are still on the premises; you need not be alarmed about it, I will see you made all right, if you will call down on the 20th of the month"—the conversation I have stated took place on two days, the 10th and the 11th—it was on the 11th that he said he wanted a month and then ten days—I sent a man for the goods on the 11th, and I went on the 13th—I did not find the prisoner there—I never saw him afterwards till he was in custody—I found a person there; not the same person I had seen on a former occasion—I called on the Monday, but did not find the goods there, only the empty cases in which they had been sent—I would not have parted with those goods, except on the condition that I was to receive cash for them—I would not even have sent the goods to him, or had any transaction with him, unless I had believed he was dealing in the ordinary course of trade, and that the statements he made were true.

COURT. Q. Not if you were to receive cash for the goods? A. No.

Cross-examined. Q. I don't understand you to say that there was any agreement made about cash? A. Yes, there was, before the goods were sent—there are letters which will show it—he ordered the goods on 27th September—I intended to send them as soon as they came from Belfast—nothing was said about cash payment at that time—I wrote afterwards, before the goods were sent in—when I asked for a reference, I did not expect cash payment; I wanted to be satisfied with a reference first and then have the option—I did not then want it to be a cash transaction, but I thought afterwards it would be better to have it a cash transaction—it was after 27th September, that I desired it to be a cash transaction—I saw a man at the prisoner's office—I don't know his name—I did not see another man who was addressed as Lovell—the prisoner did not tell me that his name was Lovell—I understood that he was acting partner of the firm of Lovell, Son, and Co.—I did not know his name; I could never find out—I asked who Lovell, Son, and Co. were composed of, but I did not find out—I did not any the prisoner—I thought I was dealing with a respectable firm, and it might be a touchy point—I wanted it to be a cash transaction, because I did not know the references—I never heard the prisoner spoken

of as Ross—I never knew his name was Rose, before' he appeared at the Police-court—I saw a sandy-haired gentleman on the following Monday—I don't know his name; I don't know any of their names—nothing was said at that time about my taking a bill of exchange or giving an acceptance—I am quite clear about that—I never saw the prisoner after 11th October—I went there after the 11th, and saw the sandy-haired gentleman and others.

MR. BESLEY. Q. When you asked for the reference, you had not made up your mind that it should be a cash transaction? A. No; afterwards I did, before I sent the goods—I conveyed that determination to the prisoner—(Three letters were put in and read, from Bell and Co. to the prisoner, one dated 9th October, 1862, stating that, as this was the first transaction, the Belfast house wished it to be a cash transaction; one dated 10th October, stating that cash must be paid or the goods returned; and one dated 11th, requesting the goods to be delivered to the bearer; the invoice was also put in on which was printed "discount 3 1/2 per cent, for cash")—I knew no other person in the transaction as Lovell, Son, and Co. except the prisoner—all the negotiations were carried on between me and him, either by letter or conversation; he representing himself as Lovell and Co.—he never said his name was Lovell—he said he was a partner in the firm—he said that on 11th October; that was after the goods were received—when he gave the order, he did not say how he was connected with Lovell and Co.—the person in the outer office did not say that he was Lovell.

COURT. Q. Let us distinctly understand what it was that Induced you to part with the goods? A. There were three conditions; first, that I was dealing with a respectable firm; secondly, that he had got an order for the goods; and thirdly, that they were for shipment—if I had been paid in cash I should have found out whether they were going in the regular way of trade, before parting with them—if I had believed I was to be paid cash, I should have cared whether they were for shipment.

Q. Why did you part with the goods at all without the cash, if the agreement was for cash? A. Well, it was a large amount, I could not trust the man who delivered them, as he was a strange carrier, and I went immediately afterwards to get the cash; I should have gone with them myself.

JOHN GOWER . I am assistant to Mr. Hastings, pawnbroker, Union-street, Borough—I produce two tablecloths, pledged on 15th and 23d. October, for 4s. and 3s.; the one on 15th was pledged by the prisoner, I am not sure as to the other—I produce the duplicates corresponding with the tickets found.

Cross-examined. Q. What name were they pawned in? A. One in the name of John Cross, and the other John Wilsden.

WILLIAM HARVEY . I am assistant to Mr. Freeman, pawnbroker, Union-street, Borough—I produce a piece of damask, consisting of twelve napkins, pledged on 6th November, by the prisoner for 10s.; also two tablecloths on 8th November, for 1l., not by the prisoner; and a tablecloth for 6s. on 11th December, by the prisoner, in the name of John Ross—the duplicate produced by the officer corresponds with the one of 8th November.

JAMES WEEDON ,. I am assistant to Mr. Grant, pawnbroker, of London-wall—I produce three dozen napkins, pawned with us on 27th September, for 1l. 5s., in the name of John Ward; also six tablecloths, pawned on 11th October, for 4l. 10s., in the same name; and six tablecloths on 12th November, for 3l., in the same name—the duplicates produced by the officer correspond with those I have—the prisoner pawned one of the parcels

of six tablecloths; he may have pawned both; but I have a distinct recollection of doing business with him on one occasion.

THOMAS WEYMOUTH . I am assistant to Mr. George Attenborough, pawnbroker, Old Kent-road—I produce six tablecloths, pawned on 3rd November, for 30s., in the name of Moss, by the prisoner.

JAMES LINSCOTT . I am assistant to Messrs. Russell, of Bedford-row, Walworth-road—I produce four tablecloths, pledged on 29th October, for 14s., in the name of John Ross, I believe by the prisoner—it was a man resembling him—my duplicate corresponds with that produced by the officer.

JOSEPH HUGGETT . I am a detective officer of the City of London police—I took the prisoner into custody on 11th December, in Great Guildford-street, Borough—he was occupying one small room there—I read the warrant to him that I had previously obtained from Guildhall Police-court, and I told him I was a police-officer, and I apprehended him for obtaining a quantity of tablecloths from Mr. Moorhead, who was then with me, under false pretence, in the name of Lovell, Son, & Co.—he said he was only a servant in the matter—I asked him who he was servant to—he said, "Lovell & Co."—I said, "Can you tell me where Mr. Lovell is to be found?"—he said, "I cannot"—I said, "What have you done with the tablecloths?"—he said, "They are in pledge"—I said, "Have you the duplicates?"—he said, "I have some"—he took from his pocket twenty-eight duplicates—I have produced some of them; they were pledged at fifteen pawnbrokers—several have given up the property—I found a trifle in money on him; 5d., or something like that.

THOMAS SMART (re-examined). I went with Huggett to the prisoner's lodging—I found the letters and papers, which I have produced, in this carpet bag, in the prisoner's room—I also produce some packing-paper, which I found there, also some invoices of other goods, and a quantity of duplicates relating to other goods—here are a quantity of invoices in the name of Roiss, 4, Austin-friars, from February to June, 1862; a quantity in the name of Harrington, 11, Gould-square, Crutched-friars, from May to July, 1861—these invoices relate to goods that have never been paid for—I have some County-court summonses in the name of Roiss, 4, Austin-friars—the plaintiff's name is Waste & Co., Welbeck-street—the invoice attached to one of them relates to a quantity of brushes, and is dated 26th February, 1862—I have several cards with "Lovell, Son, & Co., 5, Lawrence Pountney-lane, Cannon-street, London" on them; and another with "Lewis Roiss, 4, Austin-friars, Old Broad-street, London"—I found that in his possession—all these other things were in the carpet bag, and he claimed them.

WILLIAM MOORHEAD (re-examined). I have examined the articles produced by the pawnbrokers; they are the property of Richard Bell & Co.—they are the same goods that I caused to be sent to the prisoner—part of them were contained in the cases, which I found empty on 13th October—I believe this blue paper to be that in which the goods were wrapped; I would not say positively, but it is the same sort of paper.

Cross-examined. Q. Is there any specific mark on the goods by which you can identify them as those of Bell & Co.? A. yes; a long number, a private mark.

CHARLES FAED COLSON . I am a photographer, 26, Terrace, Tower-hill—I believe I know the prisoner; I think I have seen him before—the upper part of the face I can swear to, but the bottom I cannot—the upper part of the face belongs to Mr. Harrington—I knew him by that name in 1861—I

rented the premises, 11, Gould-square, Crutched-friars, and I saw him there frequently.

JAMES M'LEOD (Policeman, 141). On 10th October last, I went with Mr. Botright to 5, Lawrence Pountney-lane, where the name of Lovell, Son, & Co. was up—the prisoner is one of the parties I saw there—there was another man standing close to him—Mr. Botright asked the other man if his name was Lovell—he said, "Yes, I am Lovell's son"—Mr. Botright then said, "My name is Botright, and I come respecting some goods which you obtained from me"—he said, "Well, there is my father" (pointing to the prisoner)," and I have no doubt he will settle with you at once"—the prisoner asked what was the matter, and he said, "Bring your invoice, and I will settle with you at once"—Mr. Botright then brought the invoice, and the prisoner filed it, and said he would pay him in a month.

Cross-examined. Q. Is Mr. Botright here? A. I have not seen him here—I have made no effort to bring him here—the son was, I should say, nearly as old as the prisoner—he did not say, "This gentleman will attend to you"—he pointed to the prisoner, and said, "There is my father."

GUILTY on first Count. Three years' Penal Servitude.

Huggett, the officer, stated that the prisoner had been connected, with others, for the last three years, in a systematic course of swindling.

Reference Number: t18630105-213

213. FREDERICK NOAKES (28) , Embezzling 1l. 15s. 10d., the property of John Bachelor, his master; also, obtaining the said sum by false pretences; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

The prosecutor stated that the prisoner had robbed him since first entering his service in February last.

Reference Number: t18630105-214

214. THOMAS MOORE (18) , Feloniously forging and uttering two requests for the payment of 3l. 10s. and 2l.; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-215

215. THOMAS POOLE (42) , Feloniously forging and uttering a promissory note for 6l., also one for 5l.; to both of which he


MR. METCALFE. for the prosecution, stated that the prisoner, who was connected with a loan society, had forged the names of supposed applicants, and their sureties, and so obtained sums amounting to upwards of 70l.

William Dunbar, bookseller and publisher, Strand; Thomas Wilkes, publisher, Ivy-lane, Paternoster-row; and Robert Bartlett, one of the prosecutors, deposed to the prisoner's good character.

Four years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-216

216. HENRY MEIFORTH (23) , Stealing 3l. 5s., the property of John Gustavus Miller, his master; Second Count, the property of Leman Hart.

MR. LAXTON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GUSTAVUS MILLER . I am head waiter at the Anchor Tavern, Cheapside—the prisoner was my servant; he was waiter under me—he entered my service just before the Exhibition opened—I engaged him for that occasion—a week's notice was specified on either side—at that time the Anchor Tavern was in bankruptcy—Mr. Leman Hart, the proprietor, was the trade assignee—on 5th November, I gave the prisoner 3l. 5s., with directions to pay it to Mr. Farrer, the manager—I had previously given him money in the same way—he put it in his portmonnaie—an hour afterwards,

he left, and took the whole of his things away, and the money likewise—I never saw him again till he was in custody—he had given no notice.

Prisoner. I did give him notice three weeks before I left; I said on Monday that I should leave on Saturday, and go to Germany.

Witness. He had given me notice so many times that I said to him at last, "If you wish to go at any time, you can do so; never mind giving me warning;" but I had no idea he was going to leave on 5th November.

WILLIAM FARRER . I am manager of the Anchor Tavern—the prisoner never paid me 3l. 5s., or any other sum on 5th November, or at any time after that.

THEODORE HALSTEAD HOUGLER . I am a detective officer of the City-police—I took the prisoner into custody on 26th December, in Dock-street, St. George's-in-the-East—I told him I was a police-officer, and that I arrested him for stealing between 4l. and 5l., the property of his master—he said he had never taken any money, that he had left it in the bowl—in going along, he said he wanted to see Mr. Miller—I said I would let him see him, and just as we got opposite the Old Jewry, he slipped away from me and ran away, but I captured him again.

GEORGE WILLIAM HYAM . I am a waiter at the Anchor Tavern—on 5th November I saw Mr. Miller give the prisoner some money to take to Mr. Farrer—I went to the top of the house, and, on coming down, the prisoner was gone, and never returned—there were two bowls and a small glass, in which the money was put—there was no money in the bowls.

Prisoner's Defence. I had told Mr. Miller two days before that I was going to Germany to see my father, before I went to America.

GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-217

217. WILLIAM WELCH (17), Robbery, with two others unknown, on Thomas Philip Hugo, and stealing from his person one watch, his property.

MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS PHILIP HUGO . About a quarter to 10, on 12th December, I was in Holborn, coming towards Gray's-inn-lane—I had a lady on my arm—I Saw a party of about four or five standing, some on one side of the walk and some against a building—they surrounded me and my friend—one of them sang out "Break," and about a second afterwards, the prisoner came and looked me in the face and said, "Have you money?"—I made no reply—the expression startled me so, that I jumped away from my friend, and then another man came between us, and put his hand in my breast-pocket, snatched my watch from me, and broke the chain and they went down Holborn, and turned into Fox-court—I saw which way he went, and tried to follow him, but was prevented by the prisoner—he got before me, and tried to bother my progress—he was doing that about four or five minutes, as near as I can say—I called out to my friend, and said the man had stolen my watch—I lost the man and the watch—I did not take the prisoner—I gave a description of the men, as near as I could, to a policeman, I think on the same evening, at the station—I had an opportunity of seeing the prisoner's face; he looked in my face when he made use of that expression—I did not see his face after that—I recognised his person after that; he had his back towards me, and pushed against me—I am sure it was the same man; he had not moved two paces—the only thing I heard him say was "Have you money?"—I did not see him again till the following Tuesday—the 12th December was on Friday, and I saw him the following Tuesday—he was

in a room at Clerkenwell Police-station, with several other persons—I picked him out immediately I entered the room—I heard him speak at the police-court, and recognised his voice—I have no doubt about him.

HENRY GREATHURST (Policeman, G 209). I received a description of the persons who robbed the prosecutor, from the inspector at the police-station, and in consequence of that I apprehended the prisoner, and took him to the station—he was put amongst a charge of persons who came in at the time—I dare say there were a dozen; the passage was quite full; and the prosecutor picked him out from them—I told him the charge, and he said he knew nothing about it.

Prisoner's Defence. I wish to know why, if he saw me stop him, and ask him for money, he did not take me there and then; I know nothing about it.

COURT to THOMAS PHILIP HUGO. Q. Why did you not take him at the time he was stopping you? A. I was more eager to get my watch; if I had got that I would not have troubled about the prisoner at all.

GUILTY .*†— Three Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Tuesday, January 6th 1863.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18630105-218

218. MARY ANN JONES (20), GEORGE SUMMERS (21), and THOMAS KINGDON (19) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Crowther, and stealing therein 4 coats, 6 shirts, and other articles, value 4l., the property of George Richardson, and 1 counterpane, the property of the said James Crowther.

MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES CROWTHER . I live at 14, Denmark-terrace, Barnsbury-road, Islington—on the night of 17th December, there were in my house four coats, and other articles of Mr. Richardson's and a counterpane of mine—I saw them safe that morning, and missed them at a quarter to 10 in the evening; I cannot say to a quarter of an hour—the entry was made by the street door, for the back-door was fastened—they could not have been taken in the day time, because my wife and a lodger were in the parlour at 8 o'clock, and they were there then—I went to bed at 7, as I have to rise at 2 every morning—some of the clothes were in drawers in the back-parlour, and some were hanging up—my wife called me up at a quarter past 10—I missed the articles and went to the police-station.

MICHAEL CANNAVAN (City-policeman, 223). On 17th December, between 11 and 12 o'clock, I met the prisoner Jones, in Holborn-buildings, carrying a large bundle wrapped in a countepane—I asked her what she had there—she said, "Washing for my mother, who lives at 5, Holborn-buildings"—I followed her into No. 5, and found the bundle on the cellar pavement—I took possession of it and ran to the door with it; it contained six sheets, three pair of trousers, two waistcoats, three pair of gloves, four pair of stockings, and a coat—I found Jones in a water-closet in the cellar; I took her up stairs, and the woman of the house in her hearing, told me that she lived in the second-floor front-room of No. 3—Jones said nothing; I took her there, and met Summers on the stairs—he came out of the front-room

second-floor—I took him back into the room, and found Kingdon sitting by the fire—I found three coats under the bed-tick—Summers said that he knew nothing of them, they were not his, and he did not live there; but the landlady said he had lived there nine weeks—I got the assistance of Parker, and took possession of the bundle and the coats—Kingdon said he did live there—Jones said before the Magistrate that somebody gave the bundle to her—Somers gave a false address—Kingdon gave an address at the station-house; Parker went there—I did not search Jones or see her searched; we are not allowed to search females—two of the coats were given up by order of the Magistrate; these (produced) are the other two.

Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Did you know what address Kingdon gate? A. No—I have not been to see whether it was correct.

Somers. Q. How could you see me come out of the second-floor room, it was the first-floor? A. It was the second floor front room I saw you come out of—I told the prosecutor at the station that I saw a watch-guard round your neck, and a watch in your pocket—I said that I would charge you with stealing the gold guard—I have seen you in the house with these women many a time.

JAMBS CROWTHER (re-examined). These articles are my lodger's, and these are mine—this gown does not belong to us.

HERBERT PARKER (City-policeman, 248). Between 11 and 12, on this night, Cannavan called me to his assistance—I searched the room, and found in the chimney this bunch of skeleton keys (produced)—I also found three files, a cigar-case, a green wax taper, and some filings from the keys.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you inquire at Kingdon's address? A. Yes, and found it correct—it was in Exmouth-street, Clerkenwell.

Summers. Q. Did you ever see me there before? A. No, it is not a usual place for me to be on duty.

MICHAEL CANNAHAN (re-examined). Q. I took these keys to the prosecutor's house; they opened the street door—I opened it twice with them.

Summers. Q. Did you ever see me there? A. I have frequently seen you go to the house at 2 o'clock in the morning.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows; Jones says," A man gave them to me at the bottom of Holborn-hill. Summer's says, "I had nothing to do with the things at all. Kingdon says, "I shall reserve mine for the Sessions."

Jones's Defence. I was coming up Holborn-hill, and met a man I knew, who has been home with me frequently. He asked me to take care of them till he came; he asked me to come back for another bundle, which I did, and the policeman stopped me. He told me to say that it was washing, and I did. These men know nothing at all about it. I told this young man to keep the fire in.

Summer's Defence. I was going up stairs to pay the woman for my shirt, and when I got on the first-floor, the policeman was bringing this young woman up, and stopped me on the first-floor. I am innocent. I owe the young woman some money, and that is the reason she did not bring me my shirt—(THE COURT considered that there was not sufficient evidence of the time to convict the prisoners of burglary).

JONES, GUILTY of receiving.

She was further charged with having been before convicted.

HARRY SHORT . I produce a certificate. (Read; "Westminster Sessions, January, 1860. Matilda Newland , convicted of housebreaking and larceny.—Confined Six Months) I had her in custody—Jones is the person.

GUILTY.— Confined Twelve Months.

SUMMERS, GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted, in February, 1860, when he was sentenced to Three Years' Penal servitude; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.— Seven years Penal Servitude.


NEW COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, 1863.


Before Mr. Justice Keating.

Reference Number: t18630105-219

219. EDWARD HOPE (23) , Feloniously killing and slaying Harriett Amelia Adams. He was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence. MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

EDWARD FREEMAN . I am a cab-driver, of 10, King-street, Commercial-road, Lambeth—about twenty minutes to 1 on the morning of 8th December, I was driving my four-wheel cab in Parliament-street; Mr. and Mrs. Emanuel and their daughter were inside, and Amelia Adams and a child were sitting by me on the box—I was on the near side going towards Charing-cross—two omnibuses going towards Westminster, had passed just before me, and a Hansom's cab, driven by the prisoner came, meeting me on the wrong side, going at the rate of twelve or fourteen miles an hour—I hallooed as hard as I could, but he took no notice—I do not know whether he heard me or not; the rain was coming down very hard—he struck my cab on the near side of the dash-board; between-my cab and the pavement—it upset my cab, and knocked us all off—I called for help, and a constable came and pulled the child out and took her to the hospital—she was not quite dead then—her name was Harriet Amelia Adams—Amelia Adams was also injured; she was in the Hospital with the child—she is the person I describe as my wife—I saw the prisoner a few minutes afterwards, but can hardly tell whether he was drunk or sober, for I was worried.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Was it very wet and raining heavily? A. yes—I Was not confused—I did say, "I did not know exactly how it was"—I saw him before he was upon me—I believe I said both, to the Coroner and the Magistrate, that I hallooed out; I am almost sure of it—the child was not being carried, she was sitting on the seat, with the mother's arm round her—she was about a year and eight months old—I was on the right side of the box for driving—the cab struck us on our near side, the side where the mother was sitting with an umbrella over her head—the woman and the umbrella were between me and the cab coming—the two omnibuses had passed a minute or so, on the near side, going towards Westminster-bridge, which was their right side—I cannot tell how far the Hansom was behind the omnibuses, but I dare say they were at Whitehall-gardens—I was driving a very good horse, but I had a load behind me—I was not endeavouring to pass the busses; they had passed me—the collision did not take place in the centre of the road, but it was knocked over in the centre—the road is not wide there, three vehicles might pass, but four could not—I did not see whether there was anybody in the Hansom's cab—the wind blew that night—there are no lights in the shops after 12 o'clock, but I do not know whether the gas is lowered then—the first collision threw the cab over; we were all knocked over together, and I saw the cab on top of the woman

and child—the cab struck first; the horse then rushed on, and it all went over at once by the collision.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Was there room for the Hansom's cab to have got past you, if it had been on its right side? A. Yes; there was nothing else there but our two cabs.

ELIZABETH CHAPMAN . I live at 23, Leverson-street, York-road—on Monday morning, 8th December, I was in Parliament-street, standing in a doorway out of the rain—I did not notice the cabs till they knocked together—I saw the woman and child picked up.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you on the Thames side, or the Horse-guards side? A. The Thames side—the four-wheeled cab was the nearest to me.

JOHN SEDGWICK (Policeman, A 536). On the morning of 8th December, I was on duty at Whitehall, and heard a crash and a shock—I went to the spot and found a four-wheeled cab lying on its side in the middle of the road with its top towards the Thames, and a Hansom's cab lying on the White-hall side of the road, about a foot from the kerb—I assisted in getting up the four-wheeler, and saw the child picked up—I saw the prisoner in the charge room after he was taken in custody; he was drunk then—that was after we had been to the hospital.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know whether he was thrown off his Hansom and stunned by the collision? A. I do not—I was not there at the time of the accident, and did not see him till I returned from the hospital—the breadth of the road there is about thirteen yards—it is the Westminster-bridge end of Parliament-street.

GEORGE MEW (Policeman, A 72). I was on duty in Parliament-street, about twenty minutes to 1 o'clock, and saw the collision—I assisted in getting the child from under the cab, and took it to the hospital; it was not quite dead—the four-wheeled cab was lying on its right side in the middle of the road, with the top of it towards the Thames, and the Hansom was between the four-wheel and the kerb on the Park side—I took the prisoner in custody after I came back from the hospital; he was drunk.

Cross-examined. Q. Were both cabs going at pretty much the same pace? A. The four-wheel was not going quite so fast as the other, but there was not much difference between them—I think the Hansom was going the fastest—the cab hit the wheel first and knocked the woman and child off the seat, and then the Hansom cab hit the four-wheel again, and knocked it over on the child and woman—it was very rainy and windy—the road is twelve or thirteen yards wide—I did not notice whether the driver of the Hansom fell off, but it was turned over on its side as well—I saw one omnibus in Parliament-street, but when the accident happened it had passed—there might have been two, but I did not see two—the one I saw was in Parliament-street, not exactly in the centre, but on the near side; the left side going towards Westminster—the four-wheel cab was between me and the Hansom—I was on the Thames side of Parliament-street.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you notice the cabs before the accident? A. Yes, I heard the cabman of one holloa; I cannot say which—the four-wheel was going at a moderate pace, and the Hansom was going fast.

ARTHUR BEADLES . I am house-surgeon at Westminster-hospital—on the morning of 8th December, the child was brought there by Mew, she was then dying—I afterwards made a post mortem examination, and found a rupture of the upper and back part of the right lung—the spleen was ruptured in two places, and there was a rupture in the right lobe of the

liver—I have heard the evidence; the injuries would be accounted for by the crush of the cab, and they were the cause of death.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ALFRED PHINN . I am a cab-proprietor—on the evening of this accident, I was being driven in the prisoner's cab, coming from Westbourne-grove and going to Camberwell—he took me up near the Royal Oak, about two miles and a quarter from the scene of the accident—a collision with another cab took place in Parliament-street—my cab was going towards Westminster-bridge, and the other cab towards Charing-cross, on the near side—it crossed from behind two omnibuses which were going towards Charing-cross, and got on the off-side of my cab, which caused the collision—the four-wheel cab came from behind the omnibuses, and seeing the Hansom coming down the road, of course it went to cross to its wrong side, which it did, and ran against the near shaft of the Hansom, and then the four-wheel went on the wrong side and toddled over.

COURT. Q. Did it turn off when it saw the Hansom? A. I do not believe it saw it, because there was an umbrella up, but when he did see it he crossed on his wrong side, and the collision took place—the Hansom struck the four-wheel on the near side of the dash-board.

MR. PATER. Q. In what part of the road did that take place? A. In the centre of the road—when the four-wheel cab turned over it was on its wrong side; it crossed on its wrong side from behind the omnibuses—it was when the four-wheel was crossing the Hansom that the collision took place, and the near side of the four-wheel was struck—it was struck on its left side as it was going towards Charing-cross.

COURT. Q. Although it crossed the Hansom? A. Yes—the near side shaft and the four-wheel dash-board came in contact with one another, causing both points to meet at the same time—the collision took place on the near side of the Hansom, which side struck the four-wheel cab on the near side of the dash-board, we will term it the left side.

MR. PATER. Q. Had the Hansom's cab changed its side at all? A. Well, it was going nearer the centre of the road than the kerb, all the way down—there were no other vehicles there, barring the busses, which were going towards Charing-cross, and the cab behind—the collision threw the driver of my cab off his seat into the road near Richmond-mews—the irons of my cab were broken from the wood work, and the four-wheel laid more towards the Thames on its wrong side—if we take the centre of the road, we should call anything beyond an inch from the middle, the wrong side—as the cab laid on its side there was not more than four feet to the kerbstone on the Thames side—my cabman was going at the ordinary pace—he did not, from his driving, appear to be at all drunk, but I heard people standing there say, "The man must be drunk; lock him up"—he did not appear to be at all drunk.

Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did the passers-by see the accident? A. No; they came up afterwards, and said, "He must be drunk; lock him up"—they did not mention which cabman—I was awake at the time, of course—I could see things approaching six or seven yards off—I had the window down, and it was raining—I did not go to the station with the prisoner, but I went not much more than ten minutes or a quarter of hour afterwards—I spoke to the inspector—I saw the policemen Mew and Sedgwick there—on my oath, I did not tell the inspector that I saw nothing of the accident till the crash happened—the inspector asked me what I knew about it—I told him I was a fare of the Hansom's driver—he asked my name and what I was, and told me to be at Bow-street the following

morning at 10 o'clock—he asked me nothing about the accident, and I only told him the position in which the cabs lay; but there was great confusion, owing to its being a wet night.

Q. Did you not tell the inspector on duty that you knew nothing of the accident until the crash happened, or words to that effect? A. Yes; I did.

COURT. Q. I thought you said a short time ago that you did not? A. I almost forget what I did say—having refreshed my recollection, I did not say to the policeman, "I knew nothing of the accident till the crash happened;" but, being inside, I could not see anything of it till it happened.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you go home with the cabman? A. No—after they had got my address at the station, I went home—I did not pay my fare, and have not paid it since—it was not my own Hansom—I did not tell the inspector that I was asleep.

MR. PATER. Q. You do not remember the conversation between you and the policeman? A. No; but I do not recollect anything of that kind.

ALEXANDER KERR . I am a watchman at the Old-buildings—I saw this accident happen—I was standing at a doorstep, and could see right across the street—I was right opposite the cabs at the time of the collision, and on the park side, nearest to the four-wheeled cab—I saw two busses on the park side, going towards Charing-cross—the four-wheel'd cab was behind them, and the Hansom on the other side, next the Thames, coming towards Parliament House—the collision was more towards the Thames side of the road than the middle, but it was about the middle—the four-wheeled cab attempted to pass behind the busses, to get past them—he went rather too much out of his road, and got into collision with the Hansom coming down—they appeared to be both going one pace—I saw the driver of the Hansom's cab after the collision—he appeared much flurried by the fall—the other cabman was flurried too, and excited from the fall, not from drink—I talked to him a good deal after that—the Hansom's driver did not seem drunk—I only saw him before the collision for a minute or so, as the buss was between me and him—the Hansom's cab was nearest to me when the collision took place—it was obligated to go by, to clear itself—it only deviated, as I thought, to avoid the four-wheel, which came out from behind the busses.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to the station that night? A. No—I saw the prisoner taken to the station—in my opinion the four-wheel ran into the Hansom—I do not remember speaking to Mew that night, but when he came back I heard him tell the driver of the four-wheel that the child was dead—I went in doors, shut the door, and left him talking to the driver of the four-wheel—he did not ask me how the accident happened, nor did I say that I did not know anything of it until it had happened; I swear that—the four-wheel was on the Thames side, and the Hansom more towards the middle of the road, on the same side.

MR. PATER Q. While you were talking, did the prisoner come and say that the child was dead? A. Yes—the four-wheel cabman gave his cab into my charge till he came back from the hospital.

COURT. Q. Did you see the two cabs when they were down? A. yes; they were ten yards apart; I cannot say to a yard or two—the Hansom was lying in one part, and the horse and shafts in another—they were both in the middle of the road, but the Hansom was more to the park side than the four-wheeler. Witnesses in Reply.

GEORGE MEW (Re-examined). I was at the station-house when Phinn came in—the inspector asked him whether he saw the accident—he said

no, he was asleep till the accident—the inspector told the Coroner, and that is why he was not examined before the Coroner or before the Magistrate.

Crass-examined by MR. PATER Q. He did not address you; he told that to the inspector? A. Yes.

JOHN SEDGWICK (Re-examined). I was in the station when Phinn came in—the inspector asked him what he knew—he said that he was asleep in the cab, and did not know anything about it till the collision occurred.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say that he had been asleep? A. He said that he was asleep in the cab, and did not know anything about it till the crash occurred—this was the 8th of last month—I do not remember the precise words.

COURT to GEORGE MEW. Q. Which way was the omnibus you saw going? A. Towards Westminster—I saw no buss going towards Charing-cross, and only one coming from Charing-cross.

The prisoner's master gave him a good character.


THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, 1863.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18630105-220

220. JOHN YATES (37), and GEORGE CLEMENTS (30) , breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Thomes Nokes, and stealing therein a dressing-case, value 10l., and other articles, his property. (See 1st Session, page 146.) MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

LUCY NOKES . I am the wife of Thomas Nokes, of Grantham House Amherst-road, Hackney—on Saturday night, 20th September, between 8 and 9 o'clock, I went into my bedroom, on the first-floor—as I went in I heard a noise, as of some one getting out of the bedroom window—I ran down stairs, opened the street door, and saw some one sliding the pillar of the portico, which is near enough to my bedroom window for a person to get to it from the window—I went into my room, and missed this dressing-case, and these articles (produced)—in the dressing-case were three bracelets, three rings, and, I think, two brooches—there were several brooches in another room into which they went—they went into two rooms besides my bedroom—I lost a 5l. note, three sovereigns, and a guinea, which were in the dressing-case, and a purse and some silver coin—I also lost this cameo brooch—the property which I lost was worth about 60l—I noticed a mark at the bottom of the window, as if it had been prised open.

JOHN SIMPSON. I pawned this cameo brooch at Russell's, in Shoreditch; I believe that is the name—that wan about the latter end of September; it might have been about the 23d. of September; I cannot say precisely—I have no duplicate of it—I pawned it by the prisoner Yates' directions, and gave him the money which I got for it—I saw Clements at Yates' house, working as a carpenter—that might be a fortnight or three weeks before I pawned the brooch; I cannot exactly say—I pawned this pair of earring-drops in Commercial-road, by Yates' directions, and gave him the money—I also pawned another brooch for him—I see nothing else at present which I pawned for him—I gave him the money on each occasion that I pawned for him—he did not give me something out of it—he used to provide me with refreshment when we went about, and when I went to his house, and sometimes he would give me sixpence or a shilling, but no stipulated sum

—he went with me, and waited outside while I went in and pawned them, and when I came out I gave him the money and the duplicates.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFRD (For Yates). Q. You did not pawn a dressing-case, did you? A. No; nor three brooches—these are a pair of eardrops without the rings—Yates gave them me on the day they were pawned; he went with me—that was in September; I cannot form any idea as to the day.

THOMAS STURTON . I am assistant to Mr. Russell, a pawnbroker, of Highstreet, Shoreditch—I produce the duplicate of this cameo brooch, pawned there on 25th September, for 15s., by the last witness, in the name of Henry Seymour—I afterwards gave it to a policeman of the H division.

EDWARD MARKET . I am assistant to Dicker and Scarlett, of Commercial-road—I produce the duplicate of this pair of ear-drops, pawned there on 23d. September by Simpson.

LUCY NOKES (re-examined). These ear-drops and the brooch are part of the articles stolen with the dressing-case—this other brooch was also in the dressing-case—I received the cameo brooch from Mr. Russell, of Shoreditch; I forget the name of the other—another brooch was pawned in Whitechapel-road, and the drops in the Commercial-road.

MR. LANFORD. Q. Have you seen these drops? A. Yes—I missed them on 20th September—they were in the dressing-case, and were taken.

MR. LANGFORD to JOHN SIMPSON. Q. Are you an Englishman? A. yes—I have been a publican for four years altogether—I had been out of business for six or eight months when I got connected with Yates—I was last a publican in February last, and had kept the Napoleon, in Moorfields, from fifteen to eighteen months—before that I kept the Union, in Hackney-road, for two years—before that I held an appointment at Somerset House, in the Inland Revenue; I was there three years; it was in the Stamps and Taxes—I have had a good many horses and carts in my time—I had horses, and carte, and chaises at the Union—that was the first public-house I had—the horses and carts were hired from livery-stables—I had none at the Napoleon—carts used to draw up there the same as at other places of business—I was never before the Magistrate for a plate robbery when I kept the Union, nor when I was at the Napoleon—I was never before a Magistrate till I went before Mr. Norton, at Lambeth, on these matters—I was charged on a previous trial (see page 146)—I was not charged with a plate robbery, nor with assisting and supplying carts to men that broke into jewellers' shops—I was charged with stealing these articles here, and other articles in connexion with this affair, but never with any except those—the horses and carts which I had at the Union were for going out on pleasure trips—I first made Yates' acquaintance after leaving the house in Moorfields—he is a boot and shoemaker, and lives at Wheeler-street, Spitalfields—he has had a slight knowledge of me for ten years—that was before I was in the Inland Revenue—I was a clerk when he had the slight knowledge of me—he has always been a bootmaker—I believe he cannot read and write—I cannot charge my memory with how I came to have a slight knowledge of him about ten years ago—it was a casual acquaintance—I do not pawn things for any other of my casual acquaintances while they stand outside; I was never asked to do so—I cannot specify the number of times that I have pawned things for Yates; perhaps I might have done so fifteen or sixteen times—the pawnings would be in September, and in the beginning of October—I have never been in any trouble about giving people false characters.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. What description of things have they been that you pawned for him? A. Always jewellery; not plate.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY (for clements). Q. I believed you were charged in this case? A. Yes; I was in prison seven weeks.

COURT. Q. Were you tried? A. Yes; and acquitted.

MARY HAGLEY (?) I am a single woman, living at 7, John-street, West, Islington—I know Clements—I lodged at his house, about five or six weeks back, at Mary Ann-terrace, Bethnal-green—I have seen Yates there three times—I remember his telling Clements something about Kemble and Austin—I was in the back parlour, and the two prisoners in the front—I heard him say, "George, they're caught," but he did not mention the names—Clements' name is George—I know something about Austin, because Clements showed me the newspaper—I made no reply, but read the paper, and saw that they were taken—he said, "Look that over," pointing to the article which I was to read—it was a whole newspaper, not a part of one, and it contained the account of Kemble and Austin—I do not remember the name of the other man—I heard nothing more pass that night—Yates came there again after that—Clements said one night, when he came home, "I shall put it away till it is all settled," referring to some property that was in the house—that was all be said—nobody made any reply to it—Yates was not there then—I heard nothing about the property till Clements said that—he said it to me and to his wife—we were not talking about it—we were not talking about the men being taken, nor did he say anything about that—I cannot say how the conversation began, or how he came to say he should put the property away—nothing was said about Yates—I have seen this dressing-case at Clements' house—that was part of the property which he said he should put away—it was one of the boxes, and it was there when he said he should put it away till it was all settled.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. Whatever property was put away, that was not put away? A. That box was put away; I think three boxes, and a small one, and a tea service, or, at least, a teapot and cream jug, were put away—this was in the house, before I went to lodge there; and after he said he should put it away, it was put away—I heard nothing about any book—I did not know till after that, that he had a book containing an entry between himself and Yates—I heard him say he had to pay a loan for Mr. Yates, and I think it was 4l.—I know nothing about its being in any book—I cannot tell at all when the first conversation was—I lodged there five or six weeks, or it may be a little more—the conversation did not strike me as anything remarkable; I took no notice of it—Mr. Bond came to me, and I mentioned it to him—I suppose he found out where I was—I should say it would be about a month ago that he first came to me; I cannot say how long after the conversation—he asked me to tell the truth—I do not know what he said—I do not recollect his threatening me—I do not think he said that anything would be done to me if I did not tell the truth, but I do not know whether he did or not—I had the care of three young children in the house, and they were in the room with me when this conversation was going on.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. You told Bond what you have told to-day? A. Yes—among the property was a tea-pot, a cream jug, and a sugar basin, all plated—I believe Clements is a warehouseman, and works at a large warehouse, a stationer's shop.

STEPHEN BALDWIN (Police-sergeant, P 29). I went with Inspector Bond, on 7th December, to Clements' house, 28, Hereford-street, Bethnal-green—I

searched part of the house—Clements and his wife were there—Inspector Bond said to him, "I understand you have some stolen property here"—he said he had not—Mr. Bond told him he should take him in custody, and charge him with being concerned with Yates, Kemble, Austin, and Horn, who had been convicted, for stealing a quantity of jewellery from Mr. Bowley and others—he said he knew nothing about it—Mr. Bond took a silver watch and gold chain from Clements' person, and asked him where he got it—Clements said he had bought it—he asked him if he had any receipt for the watch—Clements said he had not, and he afterwards stated that he had bought it from Yates—in the back-room I found, in a workbox, the brooch and earrings produced—I asked Clements how he accounted for the possession of them—he said he had bought them of Yates—I found several other articles, but nothing else material—he afterwards told me that the dressing-case was in Old-street-road—we then went with him to his mother's house, in Great Earl-street, Old-street-road, and knocked at the door—his mother and father were in bed—he asked them to come to the door, and when we got in we asked if they had any stolen property there—they said they had not—Clements said that he had told the truth, and wished them to give up what they had got, and then they produced, in a writing-case, these fittings of the dressing-case—I asked him where the dressing-case was—he said, "In Old-street-road, Mr. Scorer's," but that he did not know the number—I went there, and found it had been left there to be repaired—that was all that passed between us in reference to this matter—in my presence, Inspector Bond found, at Clements' house, a tea-pot, a cream ewer, and sugar basin, plated; they had all been tested; there were also a quantity of boots, some new, and some which had been worn, an umbrella, and various other things—I took Clements in custody—he said that he had bought the boots, umbrella, and plated articles of Yates.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. What did you say when you first went into Clements' house? A. Inspector Bond told him that he understood he had some stolen property there—Bond was in the house before me; he went in at the front-door and admitted me at the back-door.

JOHN BOND (Police inspector, B). I went, on 7th December, with Baldwin, to Clements' house, and knocked at the front door—Clements came to the door—I asked if his name was Clements—he said, "Yes; walk in"—I was in plain clothes—Baldwin then came in, and I told Clements that I had information that he had a quantity of stolen property at his house, and I had come to make some inquiries—he said he had nothing in the house but what was his own—his wife was present—I then asked him if he would allow me to look at the chain that he had got round his neck, and he did so—I asked him how he came by it, and he said he had bought it for 4l.—I asked him if he had a receipt—he said, "No"—I asked him who he had bought it of and he said, "Of John Yates"—I said, "I have information that you have stolen property here"—he assured me again that he had nothing more than his own, and said, "You can look and see for yourselves"—I then said to Baldwin, "You had better search this room; I will go up stairs"—his wife and another officer accompanied me—in a cupboard up stairs I found four pairs of boots and an odd one, in a bandbox—one pair was new, and one pair not worn more than once or twice, and one pair had been fresh half-soled—I brought them down into the front-room, and asked him how he came by the boots—he said he bought them of Yates also—I then took the tea-service that has been mentioned off the sideboard, and said, "How do you account for these?"—he said, "I had them of Yates"—I said, "Do you

mean to say that you had all these things of Yates?"—he said, "yes, I did"—I asked him how long he had known Yates, and he said, "About nine years"—we then left the house, and as we came outside with Clements, we told him that we were going to his mother's, that he might accompany us if he liked, or he might be taken to the police-station—he said he should like to go; so we went to his mother's house—I told his mother that he had said he left some property there—she said he had done nothing of the sort—he then said, "Mother, I have told the truth; you had better give up what is left"—his mother then pointed to a writing-desk, in which were the fittings of this dressing-case—I asked him who he had bought them of—he said, "I had them of Yates"—there were also two or three little memorandum books, and a pencil-case—Kemble, Austin, and Horn, were convicted here last November Sessions—I was in that case—there were six indictments against them for stealing property from different gentlemen's houses, in which cases they used a very fleet horse and gig—one was sentenced to fifteen years, another to four years—Yates' wife was tried then and acquitted—I was in search of Yates at that time, and had been from 13th October—I went frequently to the house where he had formerly lived, and could find nothing of him—I was in search of him till 9th December, when I took him—I told him that I took him for being concerned with Kemble and others, who had been convicted, for robberies, mentioning Mr. Bowley's as one, of 156l. worth of jewellery; that Simpson had stated that he received the property from him, and pledged it for him—Yates said he had never given him any property to pledge—I said, "What made you abscond, for I have been looking for you, and could not find you ever since they were tried?"—he merely said, "I abscond"—he did not say "Yes," or "No"—I took him in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. Did you know Simpson? A. Not before this case, and the previous one, which has been alluded to, nor anything about him.

Cross-examined by MR. DALEY. Q. You have been a long time in the force, have you not? A. Yes—Clements did not oppose me in any way, or throw any obstacle in our way—as far as I know, his statements are true—the watch was in his hand when he mentioned the 4l.—he was in a stationer's employ at that time—I do not impute anything to him concerning the pencils.

COURT. Q. Did you find a book? A. Yes, with an entry of a lean to Clements of 4l.

COURT to MARY HAGLEY. Q. You say you were five or six weeks lodging at Clements" house? A. Yes—I cannot say the day or month when I left—I have been at my situation three weeks on Friday, and I think I left Clements about a week before I went to it—I was not there when Bond and Baldwin came—the occasion when I was in the back parlour, and the others in the front, and I heard Yates say, "George, they're caught," was, I should say, about the middle of the time I was there—it may have been about a fortnight before I left that I heard the observation, "I shall put it away till it is all settled."

Clements received a good character.

YATES and CLEMENTS— GUILTY> of Receiving.

Yates was further charged with having been convicted of felony, in 1860, and confined two months; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY.*— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.

CLEMENTS.— Four Years' Penal Servitude. (See, over.)

MR. ORRIDGE stated that there was reason to believe that Yates had instigated Close (see next case) to commit the robbery to which he had pleaded guilty.

Reference Number: t18630105-221

221. CHARLES CLOSE (17), was indicted (with the said JOHN YATES and GEORGE CLEMENTS) for stealing 7 pairs of boots, the property of Emanuel Lambert Lyom, his master; having been before convicted; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .—The prosecutor stated that the prisoner had been in his service two years, and, he believed, had been robbing him ever since, and that he was a very bad boy to his father-in-law, who was in the same employment.— Three years' Penal Servitude.

THE COURT directed a reward of 5l. to be given to Inspector Bond, in consideration of the manner in which he had conducted the proceedings.

Reference Number: t18630105-222

222. JANE HUNT (24) , Unlawfully throwing herself into the Serpentine, with intent to murder herself; to which she


MR. SLEIGH stated that the ladies connected with the House of Detention had promised to assist the prisoner.— Confined Three Days.

Reference Number: t18630105-223

223. FREDERICK DEITZ (24), and FREDERICK HENRIE (21) , Feloniously wounding Daniel Lynch upon the head, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

DANIEL LYNCH . I am a smith's labourer, of No. 1, Gregg's-court, Minories—on 25th December, I was walking in Whitechapel, towards Aldgate—I looked on the other side of the road, and saw a row there—I crossed over, and saw Deitz on the top of a man named Murphy, who was on the ground—Deitz was striking him with something which he had in his right hand, like the blade of a knife—I called out, "He has got a knife," and then Henrie ran and attacked me—we had a scuffle—he gave me three or four successive blows on the top of my head, which wounded my head—it bled, and a surgeon was sent for from the police-station to bandage it up—I had not done anything to Henrie—I only hallooed out that Deitz had a knife, and then he attacked me—Deitz did not say anything to me—he did not leave the other man to come to me—my head is not well yet—the sticking-plaister is on it yet—I suffered from it a good long while.

Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you see anything in Henrie's hand? A. No—I heard some one call, "Police!" I do not know who; and I crossed over—I did not hear Henrie and Deitz calling "Police"—I do not know how the row began—I had a bit of a scuffle with Henrie at first, and then he made a blow at my breast, and then he gave me another blow, and sent me on the ground—my wounds were examined by the divisional surgeon—I saw another man have his wounds dressed by him, before mine—the prisoners have been out on bail—I did not go, during the course of the last month, to Henrie's place—I did not see him at all since—I went with another man and saw Deitz, the day after they were committed—I went to know where the other man lived—I did not tell him that if he would give me a guinea I would not proceed against him; nothing of the kind—no police constable was with me, nor was anything said about a police constable—the man who went with me is not here—I wanted Henrie's address because I thought it was no use prosecuting—I should have prosecuted him even if I had got a guinea; a guinea would not have paid me—I said that if I had 50l. I would not have prosecuted him—I did not intimate that I did not intend prosecuting if I was paid—he said he would have nothing to do with me, that the case was altered.

JOHN BERNARD (Policeman, H 181). On the night in question I heard a cry of "Police" in High-street, about half-past 9 o'clock, in consequence of which I ran to where it came from, and found a small crowd—I saw Henrie and Lynch and another man fighting—I tried to put a stop to it, and Henrie struck me a blow on the head with his fist—I afterwards secured him, and saw Deitz and Murphy struggling together in the street—I caught hold of Deitz, and took these two to the station—I searched them, but found nothing on them—after we had got to the station I saw that Lynch's head was bleeding—I made a closer examination of his skull—there was a small wound in it which seemed to me to have been done by some instrument—I only saw one wound, the one which was bleeding.

Cross-examined. Q. Were there several persons in the crowd? A. Not a great many—I cannot say whether they were divided into sides—I only saw Lynch and Murphy, and the two prisoners, and another man, struggling together—I did not see Deitz at first—I heard some one call out, but I cannot say who it was.

THE COURT considered that there was no case against Deitz.


Reference Number: t18630105-224

224. FREDERICK DEITZ and FREDERICK HENRIE were again indicted for unlawfully wounding George Murphy, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.

MR. COOPER for the Prosecution offered no evidence.


Reference Number: t18630105-225

225. HENRY FARROW (18), THOMAS PARKER (18), and EDWIN MANN (19) , indecently assaulting " Edith Burnett Second Count, for a common assault upon Isaac Whait.

MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution, and MR. WILLIAMS defended Mann.

FARROW GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

PARKER and MANN— GUILTY of a common assault.

Discharged upon their own and their father's recognisances of 20l. to keep the peace.

Reference Number: t18630105-226

226. JAMES MARNEY (36) , Feloniously assaulting Arthur Winn, with intent to rob him. MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR WINN . I live at 13 1/2, Shoe-lane, City—about 2 o'clock, on the night of 28th December, or morning of 29th, I had left a friend in the Commercial-road, and was coming home—I had just reached the London end of the Commercial-road, about the sugar bakeries, and was at the corner of a street, when a man suddenly darted at me, and struck me on the mouth, cutting both my lips very severely, both top and bottom, and my tongue afterwards became very sore—his hands were instantly in my left-hand waistcoat pocket, but there was nothing there—I just had power to call "Police," and he was in the constable's arms momentarily—I cannot say that I was exactly sober, but I was not drunk, as my writing on the charge sheet will prove—I walked quite straight—I am sure his hand was in my waistcoat-pocket; but what money I had was in my trousers' pocket.

Prisoner. Q. Did you strike me first? A. No—my hands were in my trousers' pockets—I never saw you at all till you were in the constable's arms—I did not even see the constable till he spoke to me.

WILLIAM FORD (Policeman, H 115). I was on duty in Backchurch-lane, on the Sunday morning or night in question, about 2 o'clock—I saw the prisoner standing under a dark wall, close to the spot where this happened,

and spoke to him—about half-an-hour afterwards I was new the same spot, and saw him rush out and strike the prosecutor, who had just time to cry out "Police," and I had the prisoner in custody before he knew where he was—I could have seen if the prosecutor had struck him first, and am satisfied that he did not, because I was watching.

Prisoner's Defence. Every word he speaks is false. I am the father of two children, and am innocent of the crime. I am a hard-working man.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, January 7 th, 1863,


Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq,

Reference Number: t18630105-227

227. THOMAS COOPER (39) , Embezzling 5l. 9s. received by him on account of Charles Smith, his master, having been before convicted of horse stealing at Clerkenwell on 4th October, 1852; to which he


Police-Constable R 259, stated that he was convicted of embezzlement in 1850, and after serving the twelve months in 1852, had deserted his wife and family. Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-228

228. RICHARD OSBORNE LLOYD (16), and HENRY BREW NASH (16) , Forging and uttering, on 20th November, 1862, a cheque for 20l. and on 2nd. December a cheque for 25l. with intent to defrand; to which LLOYD


MESSRS. SLEIGH and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD OSRORNE LLOYD (the prisoner.) I am sixteen years old this January—before I was taken into custody I lived at my father's in Fenchurch-street, and was in the employment of Messrs. Plank and Smith—I went into their service in September last as office boy at 5s. a week—in November, in consequence of losing the key of one of the cupboards, a new one was made—with that key I opened one of the drawers in a writing table in my employer's office—from that drawer I took the key of the iron safe, and out of the iron safe I took Messrs. Plank and Smith's cheque-book—I have known Nash about twelve months—he was in the service of Smith and Co. wholesale druggists, Bush-lane—I used to see him every day—I saw him the night before I opened the sale, and took the cheque-book—I knew there was a cheque-book in that safe before I opened it—I told Nash what I was going to do—I told him I was going to forge a cheque for 10l. and he said he would mind the money for me, nothing further—the next day I took this cheque (produced) out of the cheque-book—it had nothing written on it then, only the number 798 (this cheque was dated 11th November, 1862, on Messrs. Hankey's for 10l. and purported to be signed by Plank and Smith)—I filled up that cheque, and took it to the bank—the figures 798 are not in my writing—that was written on it—I got ten sovereigns for the cheque, which I took down to Nash—he was in his employer's office in Bush-lane—I gave him the whole ten sovereigns in the cellar there—I went down with him to the cellar—I told him where I had got the 10l. from—I told him I had forged a cheque—I saw him again after that, the next morning—we bought some meerschaum pipes with some of the money, the day after I got it—they cost

10s.6d. each—Nash told me he had won a watch at a raffle and I told him I would buy it of him, and gave him 2l. 5s. for it—that was 2l. 5s. out of the 10l.—I saw him every day between the day I have spoken of and the 20th November—during that time we spent the money on various things—we bought half a pound of tobacco, and we bought four more meerschaum pipes, two at 10s. 6d. and two at 4s. 6d. each—Nash told me no lost 3l. out of the 10l.—before the next cheque the money was pretty well gone—I afterwards told Nash that I thought I should get another cheque, and he said he would mind the money for me—I took another blank cheque out of the book—this is it (produced)—with the exception of the number 800—I filled it up (this was dated 20th November,1862,on Messrs. Hankey for 20l. signed Plank and Smith)—I took that cheque to the bank, and got gold for it—Nash came up to the office for that—I told him to come the night before—I gave him the whole 20l.—it was all in sovereigns—when I gave him that he asked me if I could get any more, and I told him "Yes"—I bought a magic lantern with part of that 20l. at Mr. Merritt's, in King William-street—it as to cost about 9l.—I was 10s. short, and I told Mr. Merritt to send it to Bush-lane, that is, where Nash was in employment—I went with the person who took it, and told him to pay the boy 10s. which he did—the watch I bought from Nash wanted mending, and he took it to Church-lane, Whitechapel—I had not had it when it was taken to be mended—he did not tell me where he was going to take it to—I afterwards went with him to where it was—I never kid possession of it till after he said he had taken it to be mended—I went with him to 'Goldman's, the watchmaker's in Church-lane, Whitechapel—it was not finished, and Mr. Goldman asked Nash to give him 15s. and he should have another one—he banded him another, and said, "If you give 15s. you shall have this one"—this is it(produced)—Nash paid him 10s. on account of it, and promised to call and pay the other five another time—I afterwards told Nash that my father was going to see about the watch, to see if he had won it at a raffle—I had told that he had won it at a raffle—Nash said, "Well, go and pay Mr. Goldman the 5s., and tell him, if anyone comes after the watch, to say that he broke the other, and was obliged to give this one in exchange"—Nash went to pay the 5s.—he told me he had paid Mr. Goldman 5s. and Mrs. Goldman said she did not like to take it, because she thought there was something wrong, and that he gave her half-a-crown to say nothing about it—between that date and 2d. December, I was in the habit of seeing Nash daily—I went to Messrs. Hankeys again on 2d. December—before going there, Nash said to me, "Can you get any more?" and told me to get a lot next time—that was two days before—I told him I would—I took another cheque out of the cheque-book, the same way as before—with the exception of the number to pay, it is written by me (this was dated 2d. December, 1862, to pay No. 806, 251. on Messrs. Hankey, signed Plank and Smith)—I took it to Hankey's, and got five sovereigns, two 5l., notes, and a 10l., note for it—I gave all that money to Nash—he came up to my employer's office for it—the next day after that I was taken into custody—I was bailed, after being examined before the Magistrate, and on the next day Nash came up to my father's house, and told me that Mr. Gale had been down to the office, and had asked him whether he had seen me with any money, and he told him "No"—he then said he had burnt the notes, and I told him if it was ever found out, I should tell what he had done with them—he said he could not help it, he had burnt them—that was on 4th December—the next day I saw Nash again at Messrs. Smith's, in Bush-lane—I asked him there if he had burnt the notes, and he said "No"—I asked

him why he told me he had, and he said he had only done it to see what I would say—the next day, the 6th, I saw him again, and asked him if he had the money at home—he said, "Yes," and told me he had not spent any of it—I did not ask him to do anything with the money—I was afterwards taken into custody, and committed for trial, and he too.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Where were you before you went to Plank and Smith's? A. Living with my father and mother—that was the first place I had been to—I had seen my employers write very often—I copied the writing myself—I had seen where they put the cheque-book—I knew where it was—the 10l. cheque is the first cheque I ever forged—I did it by copying it from another—I knew Nash before that—I did not tell him that I was about to be employed to collect rents for a gentleman, or that somebody was going to employ me to collect their money in, and that I was to have 10 per cent—I am quite sure of that—I did not tell him that I had an allowance given me by my father—I mean to say I went to Nash at once, and told him I was going to commit a forgery—I saw him at his master's office when I first told him that—Mr. Smith came in while I was in the office—I did not speak to him, or he to me—he could not hear what was passing between us—I gave him no excuse for being there—I had a desk at my master's, which locked, and I bad the key—I carried the money all to Nash, every penny of it—I had nowhere to keep it, but in my desk, and I was afraid Plank and Smith would go to it—when I went down into the cellar Nash saw me from the window, and went down, and opened the cellar door—I know why I am called into this box—I don't know what I am likely to get by it—no promise has been made to me, if I gave evidence in this case—I only knew just now for the first time that I was to give evidence—Nash has a mother—he lives with his aunt—his father is dead—, before he died he was in difficulties—I knew that.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. You say that when you went to Nash you and he went down into the cellar? A. Yes—Mrs. Smith was then in the office—that was why we went down into the cellar.

COURT. Q. What were your hours at Plank and Smith's? A. From 10 in the morning till 5 in the evening—I had the whole evening to myself—I usually spent my evenings in the office, and sometimes used to go home—I used to go down to Nash after 5 generally, and spend the evening with him—I don't know what his hours were—we used to sit down together talking—we used to smoke in the office sometimes—we stopped in his office till 6 o'clock, and then we went to Trinity-square, Tower-hill, and walked up and down the square—that is all we did till 7 o'clock, and then went home—I don't know whether Nash used to go home—I left him—I was always at home at 7 o'clock—I never went into a public-house with Nash, or into a theatre, or any of those places of amusement.

JONATHAN GRIERSON . I am cashier at Messrs. Thomas Hankey and others, bankers of Fenchurch-street—on 2d. December, 1862, this cheque for 25l. was presented at our bank—I paid it with one note of 10l. and two of 5l. and 5l. in gold—the numbers and dates of the 5l. notes are 69,785 and 6, dated September 10th—I have not the slightest recollection who I paid it to.

CHARLES KEY . I am in the service of Messrs. Moses and Son, clothiers, of Aldgate—on 8th December, Nash came to our shop and bought a suit of clothes and an overcoat—he paid me for them with this 5l. note, No. 69,785, dated 10th September, 1862—he wrote on it "H. Grem, 23, The Terrace, Tower-hill"—after he had bought the suit of clothes, the young man who was attending to him, showed him an overcoat, and I persuaded him to

have a better one than he was looking at, and he said he must be careful because it was his Christmas money.

Cross-examined. Q. What did he come for first? A. He looked at a coat first—he was shown a coat, waistcoat, and trowsers—I am sure this is the note that was paid at that time—there is my writing on it—the word "Hill" is my writing—our young man said that he had dealt there before—the coat was either 17s. or 17s. 6d.—it was between 6 and 7 in the evening when he came in, as near as I can recollect.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Was the coat the only article of clothing he had? A. No; he bought a suit of clothes besides, which came to 2l.

WILLIAM STEVENS . I live in the Terrace, Tower-hill—my No. is called 23, Trinity-square—there is no 23, The Terrace—mine is the nearest to 23; there is no other besides mine—I have lived there seventeen years—there is no person living there named H. Grem, nor has there been for the seventeen years, as far as I know.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that about September last, people were very careful about putting their names on Bank of England notes? A. Yes; I should not like to do it for a stranger—there was a great deal of Bank of England paper stolen at that time.

CHARLES PITT . I am in the service of Messrs, Merritt and Short, opticians, King William-street—I remember Lloyd coming to my master's shop for a magic lantern—it came to about 6l.—he had not money enough to pay for it by 10s.; some slides were purchased afterwards—I went with Lloyd to Bush-lane to get the 10s.—he knocked at the door—I stood outside with the lantern, and he cried out, "Pay the boy 10s." and some one came out and gave me half a sovereign out of a purse—there was a lot of gold in the purse besides—I am not able to say who that person was; it was a young man, about eighteen, I should think—this (produced) is the magic lantern—I know it by the box.

CHARLES SMITH . I am in the employ of George Smith and Co., of 22a, Bush-lane, Cannon-street—Nash was in their service when he was taken—his wages were 10s. a week—there was no other lad in their employment.

Cross-examined. Q. How long had he been with you? A. About a year and a half—he generally gave us entire satisfaction—I did not see anything particular against him—we had some little suspicion about him; before this he gave general satisfaction.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you seen Lloyd there? A. Yes, repeatedly, and I objected to his coming.

LOUIS GOLDMAN . I am a watchmaker, of 29, Church-lane, Whitechapel—I let Nash have this watch on 17th November—the first time he came and bought a watch for 15s.; after keeping it a week, they came back with it broken—I said I could not mend it, and if they would pay me 15s. I would let them have this one—Nash paid me 10s. of it, and was to pay the other five in a fortnight.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you bring your wife with you this morning? A. No.

WILLIAM GALE (City-policeman, 520). In consequence of information, I went to Whitehorse-street, Stepney, and took Nash into custody there—I told him I should charge him with being concerned with Lloyd in a forgery, and receiving the money, well knowing it was the produce of forged cheques—he said "I know all about it"—I then asked him whether he had changed a 5l. note at Moses and Sons—he said he had—I asked him what had made him write the name of H. Grem on the back—(I had told him before, that

I was an officer, and whatever he said to me I should give in evidence against him)—he said because he knew that there was no such person there—I then asked him where the clothes were, that he had bought of Moses and Sons—he said they were up stairs—I went up stairs and found them—they are here—I asked him what he had done with the money he had had from Lloyd—he said he never had much; not above 20l., and Dick had had 5l. or 6l. of that back—I asked him in what money he got the 20l., and he said, "I had it in gold"—I said, "How do you account for the 5l. note," and he said, "Oh, I think there was a 5l. note amongst it."

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not also say that Lloyd, when he gave it him, said he had it made him a present of by a gentleman? A. No, nothing of the kind.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. When Lloyd was locked up on the first occasion, did you go to Bush-lane? A. Yes, and saw Nash there—I asked him if he knew Dick Lloyd—he said, "Yes"—I told him he was locked up for forgery—he said, "What a young fool"—I said, "Did you ever give him a watch?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Where did you get that watch?"—he said, "I won it at a raffle"—I did not tell him I was an officer then—I was not taking him in custody then—it was before that, he said he won it at a raffle, and took it home, and asked his Mother if he might give it to Lloyd, and his mother said, "Yes"—I then asked him, if he had ever seen Lloyd with any quantity of money, and he said, "No more than a few halfpence and a sixpence"—I met him the next morning in Lombard-street, and put the same question to him again, whether he had seen Lloyd flush of money, and he said, "No, no more than I told you last night; a few half-pence, or sixpence, or something like that."

MR. COOPER. Q. Did this take place before the other conversation you have given us? A. Yes—I told him Lloyd was in custody, in the first conversation.

SOPHIA LLOYD . I am the wife of Thomas Lloyd, of 38, Fenchurch-street—the prisoner Lloyd is my son—I remember his bringing home a watch, which has been spoken of to-day—I afterwards saw Nash, and asked him how he became possessed of the watch, and he said he had won it at a raffle; that his father allowed him to raffle for two watches, and he had given one to my son—my son afterwards asked me if he should bring the magic lantern to our house to amuse the children—I said he might if his father would allow him—I asked his father, and he brought it to our house—it was there four days—Nash said that his father had made him a present of it, four years before he died.

Cross-examined. Q. Was not your son charged by his father with robbing him some little time since? A. Am I compelled to answer—he had not robbed his father; it was not 20l.—I don't know what the sum was—he was charged by his father with robbing him of a certain sum of money—it was some time back—I can't tell you the time exactly—he had never been charged before with anything—it might have been a month or two before this affair.

COURT. Q. This boy says he was always home after 7 o'clock, is that so? A. Yes; he never went out at night to places of amusement—I have seen him with meerschaum pipes and tobacco in his possession—that was just about the time of this affair; last November—we do not keep a shop; Mr. Lloyd is at Nicholson's wharf—my son was charged with taking his father's money—I never knew what it was—he did not give him into custody—he corrected him for taking it—the money was in a box—I don't

know whether the box was open or shut at the time—it was known to the family that money was in that box.

THOMAS LLYOD . My son was accused by me of taking come money, which was kept in my room for household purposes—I missed a few shillings, and I taxed him with it, and, not knowing exactly the amount that was taken, I asked him to give me a written statement of what be really had taken, which he did—I don't know what I did with it; it amounted altogether to about 7l. 10s. he had taken; haft-a-crown and a shilling at a time—that was about last June. time—that was about last June.

Cross-examined. Q. You did not change him with taking 20l. or 40l? A. No, in fact, I think I have overstated the amount now.

COURT. Q. Was this boy regular at home? A. Yes, he was at home early—I never knew him to be out after 7 o'clock, unless is has been to attend a lecture at Sussex-hall, and then he has gone with his other brothers—his elder brother is a member of the Hall, and he has taken him to hear the lectures—I do not know how the money was spent that he took from me—it was not spent at night, at places of amusement, because he never was out—he has three brothers; two older and one younger—the two elder ones are in employment—one is a clerk in the employ of Messrs. Besley and Co., and the other is an apprentice.

ROBERT NOBLE PLANK . I am a member of the firm of Plank and Smith, merchants, of Fenchurch-street—we keep a banking account at Messrs. Hankey's, and have been in the habit of keeping our cheque-book in an iron safe—Lloyd was in our service—neither of these cheques are in my writing, or written by my authority, or the authority of the firm—the cancelled cheques were kept in a drawer; at the side of the drawer in which the key of the iron safe Was kept.

NASH— GUILTY .—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury and prosecutor.

Judgment Respited.

MR. BESLEY, for Lloyd, stated that he was the son of a very respectable man, and that his parents and friends were willing to send him to India after his imprisonment. He was also recommended to mercy by the prosecutor on account of his youth. Judgment Respited.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-229

229. CHARLES AUSTIN (31) , Burglarioualy breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Henry Tremenheere, with intent to steal.

JOHN LEACH. I am a railway porter, living at Howley-place, Paddington—the house belongs to John Henry Tremenheere—about 2 in the morning of 11th December, I was aroused by a sound like glass breaking—I kept quiet some time, and heard a rustling in the garden, and on looking at the window, I saw the shadow of a man's head on the blind; the moon shone very bright—immediately after that I heard a noise at the doer—I dressed myself in the dark and got a light, and as soon as I got it, a man jumped over the wall—I went out at the front-door, and got the assistance of two police constables; one remained at the end of the terrace and the other came back with me—as soon as we got back to the garden, the constable we had left at the end of the terrace called for assistance—I immediately went back and found the prisoner struggling with the policeman—I struck him, and he said he would go quietly, when I said I would strike him if he did not—we then took him to the station, and afterwards went back to the house—we found the closet window had been entered—I had fastened that window up myself between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening, before I went

on duty—the window was not broken; the catch had been forced back—it was not the glass of the window I heard breaking, it was some flower—pots that were inside—I thought it was glass.

WILLIAM MITCHELL (Policeman, D 71). At half—past 3 o'clock on this morning, I was in Howley—place—Leach spoke to me, and I stopped at the corner while he and the other constable went to the garden—I had been there about five minutes, when I saw the prisoner get over three or four garden walls, and then out of a villa garden into the road—I stood very steady at the corner till he came close to me, and as soon as he got opposite to me I took bold of him—he resisted very much, and I called for assitance—as soon as I took bold of him, he said, "What are you doing of; how dare you to touch me"—I said, "I saw you get over two or three walls"—I took him, with assistance, to the station—I took off his shoes and found a lot of garden dirt upon his feet—I searched him and found some silent matches and a knife.

Prisoner. I did not come over any walls at all—I came down the street, and you told the inspector so. Witness. You came over the walls.

SAMUEL DOBLE (Policeman, D 147). At 9 o'clock on this day, I went to the back of the house, 12, Howley—place—I found a window had been forced up and the catch forced back, and I found marks of a knife right underneath the window—I also found marks of feet without shoes in the closet, and traced them over the walls—at No. 18, I traced them to a place where he had evidently been sitting down—I put my hand down in the ground, just where the mould was loose, and found these two skeleton—keys (produced).

Prisoner's Defence. I know nothing about them; I was coming down the street at the time the constable took hold of me; the other one came up and struck me over the head, and I said I would go quietly; they were knocking me about so.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-230

230. JOHN HAPHOEY, alias John Powell (47) , Robbery, with violence, on Harry Cox, and stealing 1 handkerchief and 5s. 6d. in money, his property. MR. ARMSTRONG conducted the Prosecution.

HARRY COX . On the evening of 1st December, I was returning home from my work as usual about half—past 8, and on entering the corner of Manchester-street, Manchester-square, I was accosted by the prisoner, who struck me a violent blow on the eye and knocked me down—I was rendered insensible by the blow, and when I recovered, I found I had lost 5s. and a silk handkerchief—I am positive the prisoner is the man—I identified him at the police—station in Marylebone—lane, from about a dozen others, on Friday, the 12th—I picked him out as the man who assaulted me—I am quite sure he is the man.

Prisoner. Q. What makes you think it was me? A. By your appearance—it was under a lamp—post too—you met me full face, and I gave way to you—you were dressed very similar to what you are now, but you had an Inverness cape on then—there was nobody else with you that I observed—I did not state at the police—court that there were three—nobody came to my assistance after I was knocked down—I picked my hat out of the gutter, and walked straight home to my lodgings, mentioned what had occurred, and went down to the station to give information to the police—I was called from my work on Friday, the 12th, to identify you—the officers said they had got a person on suspicion, from my description, and I went and

identified you—I did not bring a man there who said you were not the person—there was nobody with me on the night in question.

GEORGE KING (Policeman, D 76). About half—pant 9 o'clock, on the morning of 12th December, I arrested the prisoner, on information, in Red Lion-square—I told him I should take him in custody on suspicion of having assaulted a man, and robbed him of 5s. 6d. and a silk pocket-handkerchief, on the evening of the 1st of the month, in Manchester-square—he said, "I will go with you, but I know nothing about it; I can prove where I was; I was at Brompton"—I was in the habit of seeing the prisoner constantly before the occurrence—after the occurrence, me and Sergeant White were in search of him, but we could not find him, or see him, in the neighbourhood—I took him to Marylebone Police-station, and he was told by Sergeant White to place himself where he liked—there were ten or a dozen men there, and he. placed himself in the centre of them—the prosecutor was sent for, and he walked straight up to the prisoner, and said, "You are the man who assaulted me"—after the charge was read over to the prisoner, he said again, "I can very easily prove where I was that evening; I was at Brompton."

WILLIAM HAMMOND (Policeman, A 373). I was on duty on 1st December, in the Edgeware-road, and about a quarter to 9, I saw the prisoner, with two others, coming out of Barclay-street—I should think that is about five or six minutes walk from Manchester-square—they were walking quickly towards Hyde Park—I knew the prisoner before—I heard of the robbery, at 11 o'clock the same night, and gave a description of the men I had seen.

Prisoner's Defence. On 1st December, at a quarter to 8, I was in Mr. Dibben's public-house, in Drury-lane, and remained in front of his bar up to a quarter to 10, when I was accompanied by one of the young men there to Hyde Park Corner; I lodged down at Brompton.


The prisoner was further charged with hawing been before convicted of felony at the Marylebom Police-court, on 2 d. May, 1860, and sentenced to six months imprisonment; to which he PLEADED GUILTY.**†— Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-231

231. ELIZABETH TINWORTH (23), and THOMAS TINWORTH (23) , Stealing 1 purse, value ll. the property of Ada Cherry, from her person; to which ELIZABETH TINWORTH PLEADED GUILTY .

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY TEMPLE HILLYARD . I am a lieutenant colonel, and live at 6, Victoria-terrace, Lee—on the afternoon of 10th January, about 5 o'clock, I was leaving St. Paul's Cathedral with my ward, Miss Cherry, when my attention was called by her having hold of the female prisoner—I did not see the purse in her hand—I picked it up—the female prisoner called my attention to it—she looked down at my feet and said, "What is that"—I was then holding her, and was in the act of stooping down to pick it up, and she wrestled herself from my grasp, ran down the stairs, and ran away—I immediately followed her, and as I got out of the iron-gates, just round the iron gates, the male prisoner threw his arms out and said, "Hollo! what's this?" or something of that kind, and endeavoured to stop me—I threw him on one side, continued the pursuit, and caught the woman about a hundred yards from the Cathedral Coffee-house, I think it is—after I had seized her, the male prisoner again came up, and attempted to get me away from her, but there was a crowd then—a policeman came up, and took them both in charge, and walked them off to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. What occurred when the male prisoner came the second time? A. He said, "This is my wife; what have you to do with her?" and a man there, I think be said he was a porter, brushed the prisoner off and said, "Let her alone"—I said, "She has been stealing a purse"—a crowd assembled by that time, and this porter was the first who interfered—he asked what was the matter—I said she had been stealing a purse, and he kept the man back till the policeman came—there was a crowd almost immediately I stopped her—they saw the chase all down St. Paul's Churchyard—a crowd came round before the male prisoner came up, and amongst that crowd was the porter—there were about thirty people, I should think—the male prisoner appeared on my left-hand—I had the woman with my right—I turned her arm behind her back in the usual way—the male prisoner instantly said she was his wife—that is all that happened—he never put his hand near me on the second occasion—I saw him before I could turn out of the iron gates—he was concealed behind the gate—the woman had ran from the top of the flight of steps down to the outer railing, before I saw the male prisoner at all.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Was he behind a pillar? A. If I recollect right, then is a thick pillar, and a few others round it—from where he was he could see all that took place between my ward and the woman; it occurred outside the doors of the cathedral.

RICHARD HALFORD (City-policeman, 496). On the afternoon of 2d. January; I was on duty near Sir Robert Peel's statue, at the end of St. Paul's Churchyard and Cheapside—I saw a crowd very suddenly assemble, and ran over to see what it was—I saw Colonel Hillyard holding the female prisoner by the arm—I immediately seized her, and asked him what was the matter—he said, "She has been picking a lady's pocket outside the cathedral; "the male prisoner immediately ran up and commenced throwing his arms out, and using bad languages, saying, 'Leave my wife alone; it is my wife'"—I asked him if she was his wife—he said, "Yes"—I said, "I shall take you in custody as well;" and I did so—he did nothing more then.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Colonel Hillyard following the woman before he stopped her? A. I did not—there was a crowd when I saw it, and I had some difficulty in getting inside—the male prisoner was in the crowd before I got there—I did not see that the crowd was preventing him getting away—he did not attempt to get away—I saw him flourish his arms about, and be attempted to take hold of the female and take her away—he said, "Some one eke has run the other way that has stolen the purse"—I mean to say he said those words—t can't say that I have said those words before to anyone—he was in the act of catching hold of his wife as I came up.

ADA CHERRY . I live at 6, Victoria-terrace, Lee—on the afternoon in question, I was in St. Paul's Churchyard with Colonel Hillyard—we had been into St. Paul's, and as we were leaving the cathedral, just outside the doors, I felt a hand in my pocket—I felt in my pocket directly, and my purse was gone—the female prisoner was the only person by me—I afterwards saw the purse about two steps below me—I did not see her throw it away—I saw Colonel Hillyard pick it up—I felt it safe in my pocket in the cathedral.

Cross-examined. Q. When you saw the Colonel run after the woman, did you follow? A. No; I remained on the steps—I did not see the male prisoner.

ELIZABETH MOORE . I live at 9, New-street, Cloth-fair—I Was in St. Paul's Cathedral on this Friday afternoon, and came out just behind the last witness—I saw the female prisoner throw the purse away at my feet—Colonel Hillyard picked it up—he had hold of the female prisoner at the time.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you follow when the Colonel ran altar her? A. Yes; it was in my direction going home—I saw where she was in custody—I did not notice what passed when the policeman arrived—she had been handed over by the Colonel to the policeman when I arrived—I did not hear what was said by the male prisoner—he was in the custody of another constable.

HENRY TEMPLE HILLYARD (re-examined). I did not hear the male prisoner say anything about anybody else haying stolen the purse and having run away—the female said it had been stolen by a little boy—I can't say whether that was in the hearing of her husband—it was on the stage of the cathedral—I heard nothing of that sort when the crowd was collected—the male prisoner was to my left rear—whether he touched the female or not I cannot say—he tried to get to her, and wanted to interfere with me, and he would have done so if it had not been for the porter—there was considerable confusion—I was so much out of breath after the chase that I had enough to do to attend to the woman.

THOMAS TINWORTH received an excellent character NOT GUILTY .

ELIZABETH TINWORTH was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court, on 2d. January, 1854, in the name of Elizabeth Coggar GUILTY .**— Confined Twelve Months.

NEW COURT—Thursday, January 8th, 1863.


Before, Mr. Justice Keating.

Reference Number: t18630105-232

232. JAMES WADDEN (29) Feloniously cutting and wounding Anna Maria Colchester Wadden, with intent to murder her. Second Court, stating the prosecutor's name to be Anna Maria Wadden Dixon.

MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

ANNA MARIA COLCHESTER WADDEN . (This witness was examined partly through an interpreter, and partly by writing her answers on a slate, her voice being destroyed by the injuries to her throat.) I live at the Pitt's Head, Portland-town—I was living with the prisoner as his wife, and occasionally slept with him at 3, New Church-street West, Edgeware-road—we went there to sleep on 16th November, about 11 o'clock—we went up into the bedroom, and my husband locked the door—I did not notice whether he left the key in the door after he looked it—I took a bag into the room, which I knew at the time contained a razor-case and a brush—we had some words shortly after entering—we were both undressed—i do not remember where the bag was put; I did not go to it—I think I put it on the table, or on the cupboard—my husband was swearing, and saying he had seen me the day before with some person—I went to the foot of the bed—my husband was standing against the mantlepiece—I stood talking to him two or three minutes before I observed he had a razor in his hand—I tuned my head to the door, and felt something cut me, bat I scarcely felt any pain, it was so quick—my husband did it—I was standing with my face to him—he immediately

called for help, and said that I had done it myself—he called "Murder," and I got to the door—the key was not in it, and I had not got it—I did not see the key pat into the door—my husband pushed me from it, and I fell on my left side—he afterwards opened the door—I then had hold of him, trying to get past him—when I was on the ground he pressed his finger into the wound in my throat, and then asked me to tell him if I had been out the day before—he prevented my getting past him—the landlord of the house was the first person who came up to my assistance—the prisoner has threatened me repeatedly before; the last time he threatened my life was about two months before he attempted it—he said that he would cut my throat—he had a razor in his hand at that time—he had threatened me shortly before that—on my solemn oath, my husband did it, and not myself.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How long have you been married? A. Three years last September—we often had quarrels, because he used to be very jealous—I was not jealous of him sometimes—he is a barber—these were temporary lodgings where we went twice a week—Mr. Cobbett lived there—I attempted to cut my throat about a year ago through his ill-treatment—we were then at 16, Eocleston-street, Leicester-square—I had not threatened it very often before, nor attempted it—I have had delicate health—I was not strong as a child—I was not subject to hysteria, fainting, nor of late years to headaches—I remember having a quarrel with Mary Ann Skeate—I never attempted to cut her with a razor—I was not very violent against her—I had not a razor in my hand at that time—I never had a quarrel with her, more than a few words.

MR. LEWIS. Q. What was the nature of the ill-treatment when you threatened to take your own life? A. He had ill-used me the same morning—I did not go home to live with my father that time, but I had about twelve months before, through my husband's ill-usage—I did actually cut my throat—when I went back from my father's the same thing continued—I had not been married a week when the prisoner began to ill-treat me, and it has continued on and off ever since.

MR. COOPER. Q. The day before this, had you been out drinking with your husband? A. I had never left my father's house on the Saturday, and witnesses will come to prove it—I went out on this Sunday with my husband at about 5 in the evening—I had drank nothing but some tea.

JURY. Q. Had the door been locked in the same way on previous occasions, and the key taken out? A. He generally turned the key after we got into the room, but I never knew him take it out of the lock before.

JOHN COBLEY . I am a coffee house-keeper, of 3, New Church-street West, Edgeware-road—the prisoner and prosecutrix came to my house on Sunday evening of 16th November—they had been there several times before—I admitted them, gave them a candle, and told them which room to go into—they had been there before, and I heard them go in and lock the door—shortly afterwards I heard them quarrel—she said, "Will you go with me to-morrow?"—she repeated that several times, and at last the prisoner said, "Yes, I will"—she said, "Very well, you shall"—I waited a few minutes on the stairs, and heard them quarrelling, but do not know what they said—I went back again, and a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes afterwards I beard something fall on the floor heavily—I got out of bed, opened my room door, and heard the prisoner call "Murder" several times—I went up as fast as I could—the woman appealed as if she was trying to open the door and could not—at last I heard it unlocked by a key, but do not know

which of them did it—I first saw the prisoner standing just inside the door, covered with blood—I think he had hold of the door with one hand, and his wife was by his left side, bleeding very furiously—she appeared to be trying to get out of the room, and he was preventing her—I asked him who did it—he said, "My wife has cut her throat"—the wife pointed to him, and nodded her head several times—she repeated that several times, and when be said that she had cut her own throat, she pointed to him again—there was no light in the room—the prisoner said, "Do get some help"—I said "I will go for a doctor as quick as I can"—I went down stairs—there was a lodger in the house who had come in that evening, and I asked him to get up and go up stairs and remain there while I fetched a doctor or a constable—I met a constable outside the gate immediately—I went back with him and the lodger was watching on the landing—the prosecutrix was in a leaning position, and he was still standing over her, saying, "Oh, my Annie"—I fetched Dr. Groves, and they were still in the same position when I came back.

Cross-examined. Q. How long had they frequented your house? A. Several weeks—they appeared to agree; I never heard anything before—I did not notice that she wished to have her own will particularly—he seemed obliging to her—I never heard them quarrel before—I had not heard that she had attempted to cut her throat a year before, but I have heard it since—they always came to my house by themselves—my bedroom is a floor below their's—they had the second floor back; they generally had that room when they could—no one was sleeping on the same floor—they had nothing to drink at my house; they could only be supplied with coffee there—there was a good deal of blood on the prisoner's hands—when I went up, the prosecutrix's hands were covered with blood, and she appeared to be covered with blood from head to foot—she could not speak in such a way that I could understand what she said—I put nothing on—I went up as I was—when I first saw the prisoner he seemed very much depressed and horrified, like a husband who had seen his wife commit such an act as that—he seemed to make a great deal of it—she always seemed very well before, and in very good spirits, only she was suffering at this time from bronchitis—I have conversed with her—she did not appear an excitable sort of person; she seemed very steady—she had not tea at my house that night—they were both undressed.

JOHN WILKINS (Policeman, D 244). I was called about 12 o'clock at night, and found the prisoner on his hands and knees saying, "Oh my dear Annie," and his wife sitting on his left side wounded in the throat—I asked what was the matter, and he said, "My wife has cut her throat"—she shook her head, and pointed to the prisoner, but did not speak—I asked her if she had done it herself and she shook her head, and pointed to the prisoner, who said again that she did it herself, and she shook her head and pointed to him again—I then warned the prisoner to be careful what he said, and he said, "My wife has done it herself; I was in bed at the time"—I looked at the bed and said, "No, no one has been in this bed; it is a feather bed, and if anybody had been lying in it, there would have been an impression on it"—there was no impression—he said nothing to that—I afterwards found the razor lying on the floor in the same room, and asked the prisoner if that was the razor—he said that it was the one she had cut her throat with—she shook her head to that—he said that he did not do it, and added, "If you die, we shall both die together; it is through that, vagabond you were with on Saturday"—he also said that they had been having some gin; there

was a bottle of gin in the room; and he said that they had been out drinking, and had had some in the room; that his wife poured out home in a tumbler, and gave him to drink, and he said, "No, give it to that man you like better than me"—they were both covered with blood, and there was blood in the room—I took them both to be sober.

Cross-examined. Q. When you first went up into the room, did the prisoner appear full of sorrow and grief, and overcome by it? A. Yes; he was alongside his wife, on his hands and knees, saying, "Oh, my dear Annie"—he appeared to feel the regret he expressed—I have been a policeman about twenty months—I was there a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before the surgeon came—I said, "Be careful what you say," and then he said again, "Annie, you know you did it yourself"—he was holding her at that time, and she was sitting on the boards on his left side, with her chin resting on her chest.

MR. LEWIS. Q. When he said that she had done it, did she shake her head? A. Yes; and pointed at him.

BENJAMIN MARTIN (Policeman, D 267). I went to the house in question, and saw the wife lying on the floor, the prisoner kneeling on one side, and Wilkins on the other, steadying her head—she had a wound in her throat—I said, "Oh! dear, what is the matter?"—the prisoner said, "My wife has cut her throat"—the wife shook her head, and pointed with her right hand to the prisoner, who repeated that three or four times, and she did the same three or four times—he then began to cry, and said, "I was in bed at the time"—he said, "My wife poured some gin out of a bottle, saying, 'Here, Jim, drink;' I said,' I will not have any more to-night;' she said 'If you do not drink I shall throw it over you, and with that she took the razor from the black bag, and screamed out, 'Oh! Jim, I have done it; pray forgive me'"—I said to the prisoner, "There has been no one in the bed; the clothes have not been disturbed"—he made no answer—he then cried, and said, "Oh! my dear Annie; if you die we shall both die to—gether," and made a moaning sort of noise—Dr. Groves then came, and I had sent a constable for Dr. Kirby—I took the prisoner to the station, and when he was in the cell, he said that the reason he brought the razor with him was that they had agreed to get up early in the morning to come to the Old Bailey to see a man hanged, and that Annie found fault with him for coming out in the morning with a long beard, and he should not be able to get shaved; that the quarrel was about that scamp he saw her with on Saturday night, in the Edgeware-road, and that his sister Esther knew all about that scamp if she liked to speak.

Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say that they were about to get into bed? A. I never heard it—he made no answer when I said that the bed did not appear to have any impression—I am certain he said that he had been in bed and jumped out.

COURT. Q. Are you sure that the bed presented no appearance of having been lain in? A. Yes; but afterwards, when the surgeon came, the wounded woman was laid upon it—the clothes had not been touched at all then.

MARY ANN SKAFES . I am the wife of William Skafes, of 20, Great Titchfield-street, Marylebone—the prisoner and his wife lodged with us for eleven months, and left two years ago—they had not been in our place long before they commenced quarrelling—he ill-used her very much—I saw her afterwards with bruises and black eyes—I never heard him threaten her—she seemed very quiet towards him—I never saw any marks of violence about him.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you very friendly with them? A. Yes—I have sometimes had a glass with them—I have had a little brandy and water with her, but have not observed her manner more excited at some times than at other times—I have never been out with them—I have been generally in bed when they came home, but sometimes I have been up—we have had a good many other married people at our lodgings who have quarreled—they were sometimes very cross with one another, and the next day would be very loving and affectionate—I have seen that with other couples sometimes.

ISABELLA MARY ROBSON . I live at 2, Angus-court, Big-market, Newcattle—my son is married to the prisoner's wife's sister—in the early part of April, 1862, the prisoner and his wife came to my son's house, where I was residing, and remained about eight weeks—his conduct towards his wife was very bad—he ill used her very much, struck her about the free and head, and knocked her down on the floor, when she was sitting in the room with me getting her tea—that was done more than once—he said that he would have her life, and he would be hung for her—I have seen him with a razor in his hand in the back shop, and sometimes he was pretending to make a great deal of her while he was pinching her about the arms, making her black and blue; I have seen the bruises frequently.

COURT. Q. What did he do with the razor? A. He was quarrelling with her all day—he got her to sit down, and then got pinching her—he then got the razor, and afterwards got a knife, and said he would do for her next time—I saw her once after June, but not with her husband—they left about that time.

Cross-examined. Q. Where was this? A. In Sunderland—he did not open a shop there, but he shaved people in my son's shop—my son is not a barber, but he let him have the back shop to carry on his business—there were customers present when he was holding the razor and using the threats—she continued with him two months in Sunderland, and they slept together every night, in a room at the top of the house—I sometimes slept very well.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Did you hear complaints made to the prisoner by other people about the treatment of his wife? A. Yes.

DR. GRAVES, M.D. I live at 132, St. Albans-place, Edgeware-road—I was called to the house on the evening of 16th November, and found the prosecutrix with a curved wound in her throat, extending across the front of the neck, but not further on the left side than on the right—it was completely through the windpipe, and extended slightly into the gullet; there was a small opening—the vocal chords were severed, which prevented her speaking from the moment the severance took place—I thought it was a dangerous wound, and had her dying deposition taken—I cannot state from its character whether it was inflicted by her or by anybody else.

Cross-examined. Q. Do not you think it likely that she could speak for an instant afterwards by dropping her chin? A. Not above a low whisper, she did that at the time, and afterwards too—it is possible that she might have done it herself, but its curved character would point rather to its perpetration by another person—if she had committed it on herself, I think that part would have been rather lower in the neck.

MR. LEWIS. Q. You speak more from the character of the wound than from the circumstances of the case? A. Yes—it would not be possible for her to cry "Murder" or raise an alarm.

COURT. Q. Is the injury permanent? A. Yes; and it will hare some effect upon her general health.

THOMAS CHARLES KIRBY . I am divisional surgeon of police, and live at 7, Connaught-terrace—I have heard the evidence of the last witness, and quite agree with it.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you think it possible that such a wound might be inflicted by a person upon themselves? A. It might—I agree with Mr. Graves about the curved character of the wound—I made that remark when I first saw it.

GUILTY .— Penal Servitude for Life.

(There was another indictment against the prisoner for bigamy).

Reference Number: t18630105-233

233. RENDLE STONE (22), LOUIS LAW (26), and HENRY FRANCIS (25) , Feloniously killing and slaying William Curtis, on the High Seas. They were also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MR. DALEY, for the prosecution, offered no evidence against LAW and FRANCIS.


JOHN CLARK and JOHN HART being called did not appear.

LOUIS LAW . I was mate on board the barque Martha Pope, on the voyage from Belise to London—William Curtis shipped as steward at Belise—he died on the ship coming into port, after which Mr. Giles, a doctor, made an examination of him—about four weeks after we left Belise I saw the captain strike him with a piece of skin, about as thick as my little finger, or a pen—that was the first time—he struck him more than once with that, and Curtis cried out, and said that he should not strike him, he would do his work—I saw him strike him again, perhaps a fortnight before we came to port—that was for not pumping—the ship was in distress, and we had to work all day and night—he was shamming very often—all our sails were blown away, the foreyard came down, and we had to pump all day and night, all hands—I pumped as well as the crew, and the boatswain also—the captain ordered the deceased to the pumps, and he was willing to do it at first, but he refused afterwards, and said that he was not able—the captain then struck him with the same thing—he had the same thing all the time—he fetched it out of the cabin on that occasion, and beat him again with, it—he did not lay under the pump all day, but I saw him these several times; the last time was a little before 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I remember two men carrying him down to the galley fire—they did tot throw him on to a sail; he had no bed on board, and he slept on a sail—that is a common thing for sailors, and he took sails to cover him—he did not appear to be in good health; be looked rather cold, and was shivering—he was always pale—I did not consider him ill then, but I did a few days after this—I did not see the captain beat him after that day, but he was not on deck—this was a fortnight or ten days before we came to harbour—he came on deck, and the captain sent him below—I saw the captain—flog him twice.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you ever sail with the captain before? A. No—the vessel became leaky the day we left Belise—there was very bad weather, and she sprung her main topmast about ten days after we left Belise—she was to a very great extent disabled—that might have the effect of starting the mast in the bull of the ship, and causing her to be more leaky and unmanageable—the crew consisted of eight, including the captain and the deceased; there were five before the mast, and three officer—after ten days the state of the vessel became such that it required incessant pumping night and day to keep her afloat—the captain worked like

the other men, and, if he did not work, he steered the vessel—I have been at sea more than ten years—the captain told the deceased that, if he did not pump and do his work as well as the rest of us, we should all be lost—during the whole time, till the lad was taken below, I never saw the captain inflict upon him any more severe punishment than was inflicted on any of the crew.

COURT. Q. Do you mean that the captain used that whip to any of the crew? A. I have not seen him—he never punished the deceased more than the rest—he did punish the rest, but I cannot say whether it was with the same whip.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was not the general behaviour of the captain kind and considerate to all the crew, including the deceased? A. Yes—the general way to punish them was to take a rope's end—I did not see or hear of his inflicting punishment with any other instrument than this—the deceased shipped as cook and steward—he had no bed or hammock; other men bring beds on board, but he came on board without one—I once heard one of the men, Jack Hart, say, "Say you are ill"—two of the sailors put the deceased on the sails, and the captain went to where he was lying and brought him nourishment from his cabin—the lad had diarrhoea; I have seen him going very often—I believe he remained two days covered up by the sails before he was taken down to the cabin—the sails were down below; the reserved sails, on which he was placed—up to that day I did not believe, from his appearance, that he was really ill—I spoke to the captain, and by his orders he was removed down below—the sail was in the forecastle, not in the captain's cabin—he remained there a day or two, and was then conveyed away from the forecastle by the captain, and placed in a berth in the captain's own cabin, in which he made him a bed—it was a very different place to the forecastle; much more comfortable—he fell ill about ten days before we came to London, and, from that moment till we got into the river Thomas, the captain was unremitting in his attention upon him, giving him brandy, and stimulants, and everything he could, to nourish him and keep him up—it was five or six days before he died that the captain took him to his own cabin—while in the forecastle, the captain frequently went to him and took him things, and when he was in his own cabin he continued that attention till our arrival in the Port of London—the deceased cut his finger—I did not see him do it, but the crew told me how it occurred—I did not see the captain dress the wound and put balsam on it; I dressed it once—the deceased said that he fell and met with an accident some time before—he had a wound on his leg or foot; that was occasioned by the ship rolling very much—we had spar-wood on deck, and a single piece went adrift, and went against his foot—the vessel, at times, rolled and lurched, so that the spars and casks were rolling about the deck, and the sea was continually running over—I suffered injury by a spar striking me—during the whole voyage the lad never complained to me about ill-usage at the hands of the captain—among other cargo, we had some boxes of turtle—the chain was coiled on deck—I did not see the deceased fall over the turtle boxes and chain in one of the lurches of the ship, but I heard about it—I know that he also fell into the coal-hole and injured his head—he had a out over his eye—I asked him where he got it, and he said that he fell down and cut himself—after he was placed in the sail he was delirious, and out of his mind occasionally—I went to see him, and he was rolling and tearing about, so that, between the rolling of the ship and his rolling about, he may have injured himself—he had two shirts, one pair of trousers, and no bed, when

he came on board—some of the men, and the captain particularly, furnished him with some of their own clothes on several occasions.

MR. DALEY. Q. Was not the deceased delirious the day he was under the pump? A. No—I saw him—he became delirious, to my knowledge, on the day the captain took him into his own cabin—he was two days on the sails; he then became delirious, and was taken into the cabin—I did not exactly imagine that he was about to die; I hoped he would get better—I thought he was ill, but I never thought he would die—the captain was very anxious that he should get better—the nourishment which the captain ordered for him was after he got so bad, but he had his food in the forecastle—I did not hear Dr. Giles give his evidence—all the seamen were not punished till their bodies were covered with bruises and cuts—others were not punished to that extent—the deceased was never beaten, to my knowledge, so as to bruise his body—I did not see him fall down the coal-hole.

COURT. Q. This day that the deceased was asked to pump; how long was that before the ship came into port? A. Nine or ten days—he shipped as cook and steward, but he was too dirty and lazy, so the captain sent him forward, and he took an ordinary seaman's watch—up to this pumping day he had dune his ordinary duty—he came on deck a fortnight after we left Belise as an ordinary seaman—he had refused to do his ordinary duty on several occasions—he was able enough to do it before he was ill, but he was not willing to come on deck, because he had no oil skin or sea-boots, and therefore would suffer more—there were several more chaps who had no oil skin or sea-boots—it is customary for the captain to disrate men—if they are not able to do their duty, they are sent before the mast.

HENRY FRANCIS . I was boatswain on board—I remember the deceased lad, William Curtis—I saw the captain strike him once or twice, on the return voyage, with a small bit of tan stuff—I heard the captain tell the policeman to go and find the piece of rattan on board—I remember the captain fetching him up from below—he went down and hid himself in the coal bunker on the day that the mast went down, and the captain gave him a few strokes with the rattan, and told him to come on deck—I believe this (produced) is it—it was always the same piece I think—I do not remember his beating him more than twice, and the second time was the pumping—the deceased refused to pump, and was beaten a little by the captain—I do not remember whether he laid all day beside the pumps; I think he did till towards the afternoon; he was then put on the sails, and, I believe, the captain ordered him to be taken into the galley and warmed.

Cross-examined. Q. After the day when it was apparent that he was ill, you never saw the captain strike him? A. Never—when he was struck with this, his clothes were on—the captain never took his clothes off—the captain was kinder to the crew than a great many I have been with—this lad had the same rations, and food, and attention, that every one of us had—there was plenty of food and everything on board the ship—we used to help ourselves to what we liked, the provisions were not weighed—there was plenty of bread, and rice, and everything; and the captain wanted the deceased to be taken into the cooking galley, because it was warmer there, and he afterwards had him taken to his own cabin—I have sailed with cruel captains.

COURT. Q. Was the captain unkind during the voyage? A. No, not to any one that I saw—I hear that the crew intend to go with him again.

WILLIAM GILES . I am a member of the Royal College of Surgeons—on Wednesday, 17th September, I was called to see the deceased—his body was

lying at an undertaker's shop in the West India Docks—I was called there with a view of accounting for the death of the man, in order that he might be buried, but I refused to make any statement without a post mortem examination—I received the Coroner's warrant to make one—it was the body of a youth quite eighteen; he might be nineteen; muscular, and well developed—the face, arms, hands, feet, legs, and, in fact, the whole anterior surface of the body, except the chest and upper part of the abdomen, was covered with wounds and bruises—there was one of particular severity on the left instep, and another on the left foot—the hands were badly wounded—there was a wound on the left elbow, and a bruise above it—I opened the chest—the internal part of the body had very little fat—there had been on the right side a pleuracy of, I should think, a month's duration—there was adhesion, which I broke down in making the examination, and on the left side were some very old adhesions, they may have been six month, a year, or two years, indicating former attacks of pleuracy—the lungs were very much congested; the liver and heart were very healthy; the heart unusually firm—the gall bladder was very much distended; I pressed a considerable quantity of bile out of it—another thing which struck me was the staring and reddened eye of the corpse—the eyes were wide open and very red; the stomach very flat and quite empty—from the distended state of the gall-bladder, and the emptiness of the stomach and small intestines, I formed an opinion that the body had not had any nourishment, and formed the notion that somebody should be combined with me in the examination; and I examined the body no further—that examination was on Friday morning—on the following Tuesday, an inquest having been opened by the Coroner, the prisoner requested that a relative of his should be present—he was allowed to have Dr. Bristow—Dr. Edmunds was also called in; and Dr. Edmunds, Dr. Bristow, and myself, performed the second post mortem—on opening the head, the brain was large; it certainly was congested, but not to any extent—the membranes of the brain were much congested; a highly vascular state; which we always find from long exposure to cold—the captain was present also at this post mortem, and I stated my firm belief that the boy had not had anything for a fortnight, that being my previous impression—he said, "No, not so long as that; it is eight days"—that was said in the presence of us all—I should say that the inflammation of the pleura had existed a month—a great many of the wounds might be produced by this rattan, it is a very severe instrument wielded by a powerful man—they were round wounds and several of them would be accounted for by this knot—as to the wounds on his hands, if a man is punished he generally puts his hands and his face together, and he would only get the flicks on his face; it would not he intended to hit him on the head—there was not enough to cause death, without violence—death resulted from exposure to cold, want of food suitable to his condition, and ill-usage, blows—when I came out of the Lord Hood, where the inquest was going to be held, the captain was walking up and down—I did not know his name or who he was; he said, "What do you think of this case, doctor?"—I said, "It is a bad case"—he said, "What do you think it was done with?"—I said, "A rope"—he said, "How big a rope?"—I said, "About an inch thick"—he said, "No; it was not done with a rope at all, it was a rattan thong; do not make matters black against me and I will give you a sum of money, "or" some money"—I walked up to the beadle and said, "This man is attempting to bribe me," and walked away—when I got home I found that a Captain Stone had been and left a

message; he came again: it was the prisoner, he was shown up into my study and sat down—after some little conversation he said to me, "I punished the man, in fact all the crew punished him; he skulked; they all tell me you are a clever fellow. I shall give you 7l. to brush over the affair"—I said, "I cannot take your money, you will excuse me," and he went away.

Cross-examined. Q. Did he not tell you at the time he mentioned the rattan, that he never struck the lad with anything else, or was guilty of any ill-usage whatever, and that he had not acted cruelly to him during the whole voyage? A. No—he never said a word about having nursed the lad, and having him in his own cabin during the last ten days of the voyage—I have told you all he did say—he did not say that for the last eight or ten days before they arrived, the lad was in a state of delirium, and that his jaw was so locked that they could not get anything in—he said that he had offered the boy brandy when he was very ill, towards the last two days, but he thought his jaw was locked and he could not take it; but the jaw was not locked—I do not think he accounted for the lad not having had food by reason of the fact that he could not get it between his jaws, that his jaws were locked—I will swear he did not tell me so—it is my impression that he attributed his not having had food for two days to the fact that his jaw was locked; but he did not use the term "food," he said, "I tried to give him a little brandy, but could not because the jaw was looked—the post mortem was commenced on Friday, the 19th, and was continued on, I think, the following Tuesday—I opened the chest on the first day, but not the head or the abdomen, because I thought somebody else ought to be associated with me in so grave a case—when I stated my belief that he had had no food for fourteen days, I had not examined the abdominal viscers, but I could feel that the large intestines were empty—there were hardened feces in the rectum, because it is the receptacle for them—I mean to say that where man has been without food for eight days, there would be feces in the rectum, because it is by the continuance of food that they are forced out—it was not there to any great extent—I found none in the colon; the colon joins the rectum—the appearances in the lungs were produced by cold, and are consistent with ordinary disease, irrespective of violence, and the vascularity of the brain also; the lungs were very healthy, but were congested by cold; the lungs may be healthy and yet inflamed—the appearance of the membranes of the brain might be produced by cold; there was no disease in the brain, it was only congested—it was just the state you would be in, if you were lying down drunk and exposed all night to the cold—cold produced it, I said so at first.

Q. Am I to understand you to tell the jury that this little rattan would inflict flesh wounds through the clothes of the man? A. He had no clothes on—I was not on board, but the captain said his clothes were blown overboard, and he laid naked on the sails—he did not say that he had flogged him when he was lying naked on the sails—it is my firm belief that some of the wounds were produced by this rattan, whether it would inflict such wounds through the clothes would depend upon the thickness of the clothes—if he had very thin clothing it would make no difference.

JAMES EDMUNDS , M.D. and M.R.C S. I am a Licentiate of the College of Physicians, and live in Finsbury square—by the Coroner's directions I examined the deceased with Dr. Giles; that was the second examination on the Tuesday—it was the body of a well made young man about nineteen or twenty years of age—I have heard Dr. Giles's evidence—I do not take so

serious a view of the external appearance of the body as he does; I should not put it into such strong language—there were several wounds on the hands and arms, and on the left elbow, and from twelve to fifteen trivial skin wounds on the face, not scratches but trifling abrasions, not injuring the texture of the skin and yet well defined marks—over the left eyebrow was a lacerated wound five-eights of an inch long, extending through the thickness of the skin, and surrounded by a little extravasated blood into the texture of the scalp—there were several wounds on the fore-arm, an abrased wound on the back of the hand, and a severe wound on the last knuckle of the right index finger—there was a severe contused wound on the left elbow, which was probably produced by a fall or a blow, probably a fall—several more wounds on the arm and wrist, and a severe wound on the second knuckle of the middle finger—there were no wounds on the front of the chest or abdomen, or on the trunk at all—on the right groin was a contusion, probably about a week old, and on the front of each thigh, were some pale red patches, such as might be produced by any bruising shortly before death—on the back of the right heel was a scratch from two to three inches long, which had not divided the skin throughout, and which might have been produced by dragging the deceased over a nail on the deck, or some such thing as that—I should say it had been produced in that way—there was a round wound in front of the right instep, near the base of the great toe, and several more wounds and bruises about the legs—I did not see a second wound on the right foot; there was no wound there—I am sure it was the right instep; there was a similar wound on both insteps—there was a wound on the left leg, Dr. Giles is in error there, his memory has not served him; it was the most severe wound of all, and was on the front and outer side of the leg, about four inches above the uncle—there were several more wounds and bruises also about that leg, and there was a round wound in front of the instep, precisely like that on the right foot but a little more recent in date—the wound on the left instep was older than that on the right, and I should think that on the lower third of the leg was more recent still, that was the most serious of all, and was surrounded by a diffused erasypalitie inflammation.

COURT. Q. I do not understand you to say that it contributed to the death? A. No; but it was the only one in which the question could be raised—I should say that it was more than a week old, perhaps two weeks—the wounds were all under process of healing—we then turned the body over, and on the back of the trunk were scars as long as the hand, to which I am unable to give any name; they may have been years old, certainly many months, and not five or six weeks only—they were scars above the loin nearly twice the size of a man's hand in extent—the hand and abdomen had not been opened, but the chest had—I now opened the head; the skull was uninjured, but the membranes of the brain were adherent to the top, to the extent of a shilling; the membranes throughout were fiery red and very vascular, as also was the ball of the eye—the brain was hard and firm—those are the results of exposure to cold—I then opened the chest; the heart was healthy and exceedingly firm—the langs healthy, but largely congested at their lower portion—the right lung and the right side of the chest were perfectly healthy, the left lung was adhering to the wall of the chest by pleuretic adhesions, probably years old—I then passed to the abdomen, the colon was loaded with feculent matter from one end to the other—the stomach and small intestines were empty but perfectly, healthy, and their appearance was inconsistent with starvation, and so were all the appearances

of the body—I then examined the lining of the intestines, which was healthy throughout, that is important as excluding some forms of disease—the liver was healthy, but the spleen somewhat softened, more soil than usual—the kidneys were healthy.

MR. DALEY. Q. It is not inconsistent with starvation is it, to have the stomach empty, it is generally empty, is it not, from starvation? A. Yes, but it becomes transparent, you can see food through—the appearances which were the result of disease were hardly sufficient to account for death—the appearances I saw, aided by exposure to cold, would be sufficient to kill him, especially if aided by harsh treatment or flogging—I ought to say that there were no linear marks, such as would be produced by stripes—the knot might do it, if it was struck in this way; but my impression is that it did not—they were perfectly circular, and were in process of healing, therefore, it is pure speculation for me to say.

Cross-examined. Q. Were the bruises you observed such as might be produced by his being on board ship in very tempestuous weather, and being thrown about against the masts? A. I should say that all the wound on the limbs might be produced in that way, and also by the hands, including that which I consider the most serious—the serious part of that was the inflammation, not the wound itself; it was an ordinary skin wound—it might be produced by a piece of logwood rolling about, or kicking a man's shins would produce it, and if he was in bad health and untended, that would cause inflammation—a delirious patient on board ship might cause some of those injuries—that one on the elbow was, I believe, produced by a fall; it is just the point where the body falls—the wound on the forehead might be produced by his sleeping on deck, and falling against the gunwale or capstan; we see such wounds every day produced by the same means—the wound on the leg, which was in process of healing, was not dangerous—it had begun to heal, but had become inflamed by exposure to cold, and it might get irritated by the salt water—the appearances I observed in the brain and lungs might have been caused by exposure to the cold, and to the salt water, wholly irrespective of the man being struck any blows at all; all the internal disease might be produced irrespective of any external violence, and I believe had nothing to do with it.

MR. DALEY. Q. Would the internal disease be sufficient to cause death, without exposure to cold or violence? A. Not without exposure to cold, and violence would further contribute to accelerate it—if violence was committed within three weeks or a fortnight, it would influence the lad's death; any violence would contribute to it, and the disease, without the violent would not in many cases—if the boy, in delirium, fell about among the cargo, I should not expect to find wounds on his trunk; they would be about the arms and legs, a man generally falls on his hands—wounds on the trunk might be caused by falling about the deck.

JURY. Q. Were there any marks on the knees? A. Trivial marks, such as might be made by the man kneeling on a rough deck, but not wounds in the proper sense of the term; a man might graze his knees kneeling on the deck.

COURT. Q. You seem to Bay that the marks of internal disease would not in your judgment account for his death? A. Not without exposure to cold—exposure to cold acting on the diseased state, I observed, was quite sufficient to cause death, wholly irrespective of the wounds I saw.

JOHN SYER BRISTOW . I am a physician—I attended the post mortem at the prisoner's request—I have heard Dr. Edmund's evidence, and differ from him in no important particular at all.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you had a very great experience? A. Yes; I was Pathological Demonstrator at St. Thomas's Hospital eleven years—I am of opinion that the appearances indicative of disease, combined with the exposure to cold and wet, would be sufficient to account for death, without any violence at all.


OLD COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, Thursday 8th, Friday 9th, and Saturday 10th, 1863.


Before Mr. Justice Blackburn.

Reference Number: t18630105-234

234. GEORGE BUNCHER (40), WILLIAM BURNETT (31), RICHARD BREWER (34), and JAMES GRIFFITHS (40), were indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a 5l. note, purporting to be a note of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, with intent to defraud.


GRIFFITHS— PLEADED GUILTY to the forgery, but NOT GUILTY to the uttering.

BURNETT and GRIFFITHS had previously PLEADED GUILTY to other indictments charging like offences in other forms.

SIR FITEROY KELLY , Q.C., MR. BOVILL, Q.C., MR. GIFFARD, and MR. MATTHEWS, conducted the Prosecution. MR. SERJEANT BALLAKTINE, with MESSRS. D.D. KEANE and F.H. LEWIS, appeared for Brewer, and MR. PATER for Buncher.

HENRY WEBB . I am an officer of the City of London detective force—I have been engaged in the investigation of this matter—on Monday, 27th October, I went to the house of the prisoner Griffiths, at No. 2, Brown's-buildings, Winsen-street, Birmingham-heath-we obtained admission to the house—we proceeded up stairs to the front room on the first floor—I saw Griffiths just inside the door; he was coming to open the door as I pushed it open—he had his coat off and his shirt sleeves tucked up, and his hands were covered with black ink—I found in the room a printing press, it seemed to be in use, and on the printing press there were twenty-one forged Bank of England notes, without the date or signature to them—there was a bed in the room, and on the bed there were twenty forged 10l. notes finished, wrapped up in gutta percha, and twenty 5l. forged notes—in the parcel containing the twenty tens, there was half a sheet of rupee paper, which I now produce—close to the fire place there was a small square stove, with some charcoal in it; and, on the top of that stove, there was a 10l. note plate, which they call a "mother plate," that is, the body of the note without the date or signature—on a table, in the same room, there was a 5l. Bank of England plate, called "a mother plate," containing everything, except the number, date, and signature—in the same room, behind the door, we found two other copper plates, called water-mark plates; they are for patting the water-mark in the note—I also produce a date and signature plate, which I found along with the two water-mark plates; the signature is that of W. P. Gattie—after we had searched the house, I asked Griffiths if he had any more plates besides those found—he said, Yes, he had some buried in a field (Mr. Inspector Man ton and Mr. Tandy of the Birmingham police were with me), and he said if we would go with him he would show

us where they were—on the road from the house to the field, he entered into a general conversation respecting the forgery of these notes—he said that he had been engaged in manufacturing forged Bank of England notes since the year 1846, and he had printed all the forged Bank of England notes that had been issued for the last seventeen years, and he had, to the best of his recollection, printed on the genuine paper stolen from the mills, the number of one hundred and eighty 5l. notes and twenty 10l. notes, for a man named Buncher, and twenty 5l. notes for another party—after walking some distance we came to a field, and after digging in the bank for some time, with the assistance of Griffiths, we discovered a quantity of plates, which Mr. Manton has in his possession—we then went to another place pointed out by Griffiths, and there found some more plates and some notes, which will be produced by one of the other witnesses—Mr. Manton has possession of all the plates found connected with the Bank—Griffiths was examined at Birmingham, and afterwards brought in custody to London, and examined before the Lord Mayor.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER Q. Had you not been engaged in watching the movements of Griffiths from 6th October? A. For some considerable time—I cannot tell you the exact date when I was first employed to watch Griffiths' movements at Birmingham; it was some time in August—from that time up to 27th October, I had kept him under my eyes as well as I conveniently could—an officer, named Legg, was engaged with me, Mr. Manton, Mr. Tandy, and an officer named McLeod—he did not, at that particular time, say that he had manufactured paper for a person of the name of Maynard—I believe it was mentioned when we were in the cab, after we had left the field; he said a person named Maynard had employed him for the same purpose—he did not mention any other names than Buncher and Maynard—he did not state that other persons besides those two had received printed notes from him—I swear that.

Griffiths. I should like the witness to explain to the public who betrayed me, and what thousands of pounds he has had out of it, not for my own defence, but to show to the public this man who has sold me for the sake of the reward.

WILLIAM MANTON . I am an officer of the Birmingham detective police force—I went with Webb to the house of Griffiths, and afterwards went with him to the field; by Griffiths's direction I there searched for and found certain plates, which I produce; the first lot are a portion of number plates—in another part, at a place pointed out by Griffiths, I also discovered some further number, date, and signature plates (producing them)—I afterwards went to another place, pointed out by Griffiths, to some land belonging to the Birmingham Waterworks Company, and, in consequence of directions from him, I searched under the root of a tree or bush, and found a number of other plates—there was an old "mother" plate, and ten date and signature plates.

GEORGE PHILIP TANDY . I am an officer of the detective police at Birmingham—I found certain plates in the room at Griffiths'; they are number plates, date and name plates, and a brass plate for the purpose of giving a gloss to the surface of the paper—I produce the bundle which I so found.

FREDERICK MURFILL . I am in the service of the Bank of England, and have been so for twenty-seven years—I have been qualified to inspect notes for twenty-five years—I am stationed in the hall at the Bank of England to inspect all notes presented at the Bank for payment—I have, in discharging

that duty, become familiar with the character of forged notes, which from time to time make their appearance there—I have seen the plates which were found at Griffiths'—those plates would produce the forged notes, both on false and genuine paper, that have come into the Bank for some time—prior to the month of August last, no forged on genuine paper had been brought into the Bank—on 16th August, 1862, a forged note was presented on genuine paper—that was an impression from the plates that have been produced from Griffiths's place—from that time to the present a variety of forged notes printed on genuine paper have been presented—some of them I returned to the persons presenting them, first stamping them forged, but we have a number of them here; thirty-two fives and four tens, all impressions from Griffiths’s plates; that applies both to the mother plate, the signature plate, and the date plate—we have also a large number of forged notes on common paper, all from Griffiths's plates—the genuine Bank notes are printed in the Bank; the paper being brought from Messrs. Portals, at Laverstoke—I produce the fives and tens that have been brought in on the genuine paper, and also the note in question; Barclay's note, that is forged; it is a 5l. note, No. N.S. 31,109, dated 23d January, 1862, and signed W. P. Gattie—that also corresponds with these plates.

Cross-examined by MR. PATES. Q. With regard to the paper upon which the notes which you produce are printed, is there anything to indicate the date of their manufacture? A. There may be, but I am not acquainted with it—I am not able to say when it was manufactured.

COURT. Q. Is the note which you have produced, No. 31,109, upon genuine paper? A. Yes.

JOHN LITCHFIELD . I am under foreman at the Laverstoke paper mills—I have been for ten years in the employment of the Messrs. Portal—I am now finisher—I superintend the manufacture of the notes—I am thoroughly familiar with them—the paper upon which this note, No. 31,109 is printed, is our paper—it is not in the state in which Messrs. Portal turn out their paper when finished; it has not been glazed; it has been sized—after the notes are sized at the mill, they are dried, and then they are glazed in a subsequent stage of the manufacture—no note is ever sent from Messrs. Portal's mills to the Bank of England before it has been glazed—I have examined all the other notes that Mr. Murfill has produced; they are all our paper, none of them have been glazed—they are all on Bank of England paper manufactured at Messrs. Portal's, and all in the sized state, before they are glazed—somewhere about August last, a considerable quantity of paper was missed from the mill—the piece of rupee paper produced by Webb, if the Government of India paper, for ten rupees, that is as manufactured at Messrs. Portal's mill—that has not been sized at all; it is in what is called the dried water leaf state—the wet notes are dried before they are sized, and while in that state we call them in the dried-water leaf state—I can't tell with certainty when we first began to make rupee paper—it might be three or four years ago—we never issue rupee paper from the mill in this state—it is always sized and glazed; this is unsized.

COURT. Q. Is there anything in the paper that is manufactured at your mill, that shows you the date of manufacture? A. No, not in the make of it—there is nothing in the paper to show when it was made—there is nothing on the note produced to indicate in what year the paper was made.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. You have stated that paper was missed in August last year? A. Yes—that was not the first time that paper had

been missed from the mill—paper had been missed before then; I cannot exactly remember about the time, not without seeing the books—I cannot tell you within a year, not without seeing the books—paper had been missed on several occasions—I can't tell how many times—I have been ten years employed at the mill—I can't say how often paper has been missed, without referring to the books; that applies to bank note paper as well as to rupee paper.

MR. BOVILL. Q. Is some paper spoiled in the course of manufacture? A. Yes.

HENRY BROWN . I am twenty-one years of age, and am a son of George Brown, who was a carpenter at Mr. Portal's mills, at Laverstoke—I was in the habit of assisting my father at the mills—I first became acquainted with the prisoner Burnett, between May and Christmas, 1861—he was then at the Three Horse Shoes, at Whitchurch—he was living there with his sister-in-law—I saw him there very often—he did not make any application to me to get anything—his wife said something about the paper at the mill, and after that he said that he knew some one that would print them and pass them—my first conversation was with Mrs. Burnett, and after that I had a conversation with Burnett, and he said he knew somebody who would print and pass them—he asked me to get some paper from the mill—I told him I should not do anything of the sort—he asked me several times to fetch it; I told him I should not do it at all—Mrs. Burnett asked me several times also—at last I took some paper from the mill—I took three sheets in the first instance; that forms six notes—I took it from the side of the size-drying machine—(referring to a model produced) this model represents the size-drying machine—the paper is put in at the further end, and in passed between felt blankets and rollers, two of which are heated, and it comes out dry at the other end—two girls work at that machine; one at each end; one puts the paper in and the other takes it out—the paper is between the blankets from the time it goes in till it comes out—there is a part of the machine near the lower end of it, at which a man can get his hand in between the blankets (pointing out the position on the model)—the machine is constantly in motion—the paper is put in as it is supplied to the person who has to put it in, two or three sheets together, one on the other, laid long ways on the blankets—the girl who puts the paper in stops doing so sometimes, but the machine still goes on—there is sometimes a few spaces short—they don't fill it out regularly—if anybody stops to speak to the girl there is very often a break in the supply of paper—I was aware of that—I have pointed out to the Jury the place where a person could get their hand in between the blankets, and abstract the paper—that is on the side next to the wall, as represented on the model, between the wall and the machinery, and towards the end of the machinery where the paper comes out—I got the three sheets of paper from that place—I could not be seen by either of the girls who were at work at the machine—it was part of my duty as carpenter to be about that machine to see that it worked properly, and to alter it if it did not; to see that the blankets did not crease, and that they went regularly—it takes about twenty-five minutes from the time of the paper passing in till its coming out of the machine—the three sheets of paper that I first took were plain paper, that is, paper without any denomination of the value of the note that is to be printed—it has the water mark and everything else, but without the amount—I gave those three sheets of paper to Mrs. Burnett at Whitchurch—that was, I think, about May or June, 1861—after I had given them to her, Burnett said he knew some one that could

print them and pass them, but be said he must take them to London—he asked me several times to get some more—he said I might as well get a few more, and go to London with them for a spree—I told him I would see if I could—I did do so—the second time I took five sheets of 10l. note paper—I took that from the same place as I took the other—I took them to Burnett at Whitchurch—I had several conversations with Burnett about the paper—he asked me to get some more—I told him I would not, and he said if the other was tumbled to he should very likely split upon me—"tumbled to" I understood to mean "found out"—I then told him I would see if I could get a few more for him—I took nine or ten sheets of "fifty" next—I took those from the side of the machine, the same place as the other; I got my hand in between the blankets, and took them out—that was the third time that I took any—as I was leaving the place on that occasion I met Richard Brewer, and he asked me what I had got in my pocket—I told him I had not got anything—he said, "You have; you have got some paper"—I said I had not, it was only a piece of wrapper—he said, "It if not; it is some paper; you had better take it out, and take it back; I don't want to get you into a row, or else I would tell the governor of it"—I told him I would, if be would not tell on me—I went to put it back, and Mr. Deusatoy was in the machine-room at the time, and I had not the chance then—I took it down into the carpenter's shop, and Brewer came down to me a little while afterwards, and asked me what I was going to do with the paper, whether I had put it back—I told him I had not the chance to put it back—he asked me what I was going to do with it, and I told him—I took it for Burnett of Whitchurch—he asked me what Burnett did with it—I told him he knew some one in London who printed it and passed it—he asked me if I knew who it was—I told him I did not—he told me to put the paper back as soon as I could—I had not an opportunity of putting it back—I took it to Burnett at Whitchurch—I told Burnett what had happened with Brewer—next day I saw Brewer—he asked me whether I had put the paper back—I told him I had not the chance, and I had taken it to Burnett—he said he should not take any more if he was me, he should leave off at that—Burnett then went to London—I saw him again two or three days afterwards at Whit-church, and be gave me 4l.—he said I was to give 3l. to Brewer, and keep 1l. myself—I took the 3l. to Brewer the next morning, and gave it him—I kept 1l. myself—I told Brewer that Burnett had sent the 3l. to him—he said he did not want any of Burnett's money, and he did not want to have anything to do with him—I told him he might as well have it, and he then took it—he asked me if I knew who Burnett took the paper to—I told him I did not know, but I heard him tell his wife that Fred had not got the plate done yet—Brewer asked me if it was Fred Lancaster—I told him I did not know what name it was—he told me to ask Burnett when I saw him again what the man's name was, where he took the paper to—he said he thought he knew Burnett before to-day—he asked me how much paper I had taken to Burnett, and what he got a sheet for it—I told him I did not know what he got a sheet for it, I thought he did not get anything out of it, not particular—I told him I had taken three sheets of plain, and five of tens before, and ten fifties, and that Burnett took them to London—when I next saw Burnett I inquired of him who the man was—he would not tell me—I asked him whether Fred Lancaster was the name—next morning I saw Brewer, and told him that Burnett would not tell me what the man's name was—he said, oh, that was all right, he should find out some day, he dare say—Burnett asked me to get him some more paper—I told him I would see

if I could—I told Brewer that Burnett wanted some more paper, and he said I was to get as much as Burnett wanted—I afterwards got twelve sheets of plain—I took them from the side of the machine, where I got the other—I gave them to Burnett—the next morning, or a day or two afterwards, I saw Brewer—I told him that I had given Burnett some more paper—I told him what it was, twelve sheets of plain—he said that was all right—after that I told him I thought about going to London to get work—he said it was the best thing I could do—this was at the latter end of June, 1861—he said I was not to mention his name at all to Burnett about getting any of the paper—I afterwards saw Burnett—he wanted me to get some more paper—I told him I was going to London—he said I might as well get some more paper before I came away, he should not be able to get any afterwards—I saw Brewer, and told him what Burnett had said—he said I could please myself about getting some more—I did take some more—I took about forty sheets of plain—I took them to Burnett—I left the mills a day or two afterwards, and came to London with the Burnetts—we were all at Stratford—we did not live in the same house—I stayed in London about five weeks—I did not get any work in London—I lived with Burnett—he supplied me with money—after that five weeks I went back to Laverstoke—I saw Brewer there, against the mill gates—he asked me how it was that I had come back—I told him I could not get work in London—he asked what I was going to do—I told him I should stop at home, and see whether I could get work there—I came down by myself, not with Burnett—about six weeks before Christmas I was in the bar parlor of the "Prince Regent" at Whitchurch, and Brewer came in—he asked me to have a glass of brandy and water with him—I told him I would—he asked me when I was going home—I said I was going directly—he said, "We may as well go together then, I want to speak to you on the road"—this was about 10 or 11 o'clock at night—we left about a quarter of an hour afterwards—Brewer went out first, and I followed him—we walked to Laverstoke together, that is about two miles—on the way he asked me if I knew where Burnett was gone to, if I could find him—I said I knew where his brother lived, and most likely I could find him—he said he wanted me to take something to London for him—he said it was Bank paper—I told him I did not know how I should manage to go, being out of work—next day I saw Brewer against the mill gates, at 4 o'clock—he told me not to take any notice of him then, he would come up into the shop to me presently—I went to my father's shop, and Brewer came about half-an-hour afterwards—my father was in the shop at the time; Brewer said he wanted to borrow a saw, because my father was there—he saw my father, and said he wanted to borrow a saw—I lent him one—he went away with it, and came again in about half-an-hour—my father had then gone away—he told me he had borrowed the saw as an excuse, because father was there—he then asked me if I had ever had any letter from Burnett concerning the other paper—I said I had not, and I told him that I would give it up altogether, I would not have anything more to do with it—he said he wanted me to take some paper to London for him—I said I did not know how I should manage it, father would want to know where I got the money from to go with—Brewer said he did not know how he should manage it then—I told him I thought of going to Portsmouth to my brother's till Christmas—he said it was the best thing I could do, and come up again at Christmas, and make out that I had come to see my friends—he asked me if I wanted any money to go with—I told him I had enough to go with—he said I was to be sure to come up again at Christmas—after that I went to Portsmouth—I saw Brewer again two

or three times before I went—I met him accidentally—he said I was to be sure to come at Christmas, I was to come back and see him, but I was not to take any notice of him when I did see him—a fortnight after Christmas I came back again to Laverstoke—I got there in the afternoon—I met Brewer as he was coming out of the mill-yard about 4 o'clock—he said I was not to take any notice of him then, but meet him at the Red House at 11 o'clock at night—the Red House is in Whitchurch, about two miles from Laverstoke—I went there about 9 or 10 that evening, and saw Brewer—he was in the parlor—I was in the tap-room—Brewer came out, and I followed him—we walked on to Laverstoke—he asked me if I was sure I could find Burnett—I told him most likely I could—he said I was to be sure and not say anything to anyone about him—he said he wanted me to take two parcels, one to Burnett, and one to a woman in black whom I should meet at the Waterloo Station—he said the parcels were paper—he did not say what they contained—he said I was to stand on the platform till the woman came up to me, and he said he would write and tell her what sort of a chap I was—he said she would have a hat on—he asked me when I thought of going—I told him the next day—he said I had better stop till the day after, so that be could write to her—he gave me two parcels, one for the woman, and one for Burnett—I waited a day in order that he might write—I opened the parcels—there was one hundred sheets of plain Bank paper in the one for the woman, and one hundred sheets of fives, and seventy-six of tens, in the one for Burnett—Brewer said I had better go by the parliamentary train, and then the woman would meet me there—I went by that train—when I arrived at the Waterloo Station I waited on the platform, and a woman in black came up to me—she asked me if I had got anything from Brewer—I gave her the parcel, and she gave me half a crown to get something to drink—I took some pains to find out where Burnett was, and eventually I ascertained his address from his mother—I went to him and gave him his parcel—he gave me 3l.—he said I was to give 2l. to Brewer, the other 1l. was to pay my own expenses—I stayed in town two days—I then went to Portsmouth—Burnett came down there to me two or three times—I stayed at Portsmouth till about a fortnight after Easter—I then went to London to Burnett's—after I had been there about a week he asked me to go down and see Brewer, to see if I could get any more paper from him—I agreed to go—he gave me money to go with; I don't exactly know now how much it was—I went and saw Brewer the same afternoon—he said I was not to take any notice of him, but to go down the lane and he would come down to me—I went down the lane, and he came to me, and asked me what I was come for—I told him that Burnett had sent me after some more paper—he said, "All right; come into my house at 11 o'clock to-morrow night—he said he wanted me to take a key to London for him, and get one made like it, for fear the other one that he had got should break—(a key was here produced by Webb)—that is exactly like the key—he said he dare say Burnett knew who could make one like it—nothing more occurred then—I saw Brewer again next night at his house, and he gave me two parcels, one to take to Burnett, and one to give to the woman at the Waterloo Station that I had taken the other to—they contained paper—I never counted them—he told me it was Bank paper—I did not go direct to London—I went to Portsmouth first, and then from there to London—I gave one of the parcels to the woman at the Waterloo Station, the same as I did the other.

Q. How was the woman to know that you were to come from Portsmouth? A. Brewer told me he would write to her—he told me to go up on the Tuesday from Portsmouth—he said I was to go by the parliamentary train—when I got to the station the woman came to me, and I gave her the parcel that I had to give to her—the other parcel I took to Burnett, and I gave the key to Burnett to get one made like it—I stopped at Burnett's house—while I was staying there I went with Burnett to Westminster—I stopped at the top of Strutton Ground, and Burnett went to see the prisoner Buncher, who lived down the other end of Strutton Ground—I afterwards knew Buncher's shop, and went there several times.

COURT. Q. Did you see him enter that shop? A. Not at that time.

MR. BOVILL. Q. He went away from you? A. Yes; he was gone about an hour—when he left me he went down towards the butcher's shop, which I afterwards knew to be Buncher's—I had given the key to Burnett at that time, and he had the key with him—he said he would take it to Buncher, and he had the Bank paper with him—he had not much money when he left home in the morning—he told me so—when he came back to me in Strutton Ground he had plenty—I stayed with Burnett up to the time the reward came out—that would be up to 16th August—after the first time of going to Strutton Ground, which I have spoken of, I went there several times—the next time I went, I stopped at a public-house at the top of Strutton Ground—I did not, at that time, see where Burnett went to—he went down towards the other end, where the butcher's shop was—he had Bank paper with him at that time—Burnett supplied me with money—the next time I went to Strutton Ground with Burnett we went to the other end, entered at the other end—I stopped at a public-house just round the corner—Burnett had paper with him when he went—he had none when he came back that I know of, nor had he on the former occasion that I am aware of—I can't say how many times altogether I went with him to Strutton Ground; I went several times—on one occasion I saw him go into Buncher's butcher's shop—he was in there about half an hour—I never had the new key—Burnett did not get it made, not till afterwards—I gave him the key to get one made like it—he gave it back to me again—after we had been several times to Strutton Ground, Burnett said he wanted me to go down and see Brewer again—he said I had better go to Portsmouth, and go from Portsmouth, and make out to my father and them that I was working at the Isle of Wight—that was about a month before the reward came out, about the middle of July—I went to Portsmouth—before I went Burnett gave me the key, and he also gave me 6l. to take to Brewer, and 2l. or 3l. for myself—he did not send any message to Brewer—I stayed at Portsmouth one day, and then went to Laverstoke—I saw Brewer coming out of the mill-yard—he said I was to come into his house at night—he asked me if I had got the key done—I told him I had got the other that he gave me, and I gave it to him—I told him they had not got the other one done, that they had taken the impression of it, and they were going to make it—I gave him the money Burnett had given me—he said that was all right—he said he could not get any paper then—he could not get any without I stopped a fortnight—he did not tell me why—I told him I could not stop a fortnight—he said I had better come down again on Sunday week then, and come to his house late at night—I went there—I went from Waterloo Station—I got out at Basingstoke—that is short of Laverstoke—I stopped there till the last train down at night, and then went from Basingstoke to Overton—I got to Overton about 7 or 8 o'clock, I think, I am not sure—I

went on down to Overton—I stayed there till about 10, or 9 or 10 o'clock—I then walked on towards Laverstoke—it is about two miles from Overton to Laverstoke—on my road I met young William Litchfield—Burnett had come with me from London—he did not stop at Basingstoke with me, he went on to Whitchurch, that is beyond Laverstoke and Overton—after meeting with William Litchfield we walked on towards Laverstoke—Litchfield did not go with me quite all the way—he went back again to Overton—when I got to Laverstoke I went to Brewer's house—Brewer said I had better stop there till the next night—I slept that night up stairs in Brewer's house—I did not go to my father's house at all—I did not want them to know I was there—I had never slept in Brewer's house before—I slept there then because it was too late to go back that night—he asked me to stop there—the next morning he gave me two parcels of Bank paper—he said I was to give one of them to the woman I had met before, and one to Burnett—he told me to go by the parliamentary train—it was about 8 or 9 in the morning when he gave me the parcels—I was not to go till the next day—I saw Brewer again in the middle of the day at dinner-time—he said I had better go to Basingstoke that night and sleep, and go up in the morning—he said I was not to come down any more, he thought they would tumble to him, if I came again—he said I was to go to Basingstoke that night, that he might write to the woman and tell her to meet me—I did not stay at Laverstoke, because I could not get away from there in time in the morning—the parliamentary train that I was to go by, went about the middle of the day—I don't recollect his saying anything to me about what Burnett gave me—after dinner Brewer went to work—I left about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I came out the front way of Brewer's house, and down the lane, and went towards Overton to get to Basingstoke—I found that the train did not go from Overton, and I went to Whit-church—I saw a man, named James Brennan, on the railway—I got to Basingstoke that night, and slept there—I carried both the parcels of paper in a black bag—I had brought that bag from London—I went up to London next morning by the train from Basingstoke—when I got there, I saw the woman in black again—I told her I had not got anything this time—she asked me—I did not give her the parcel—I took it off to Burnett—I gave him both parcels—Burnett was not at home when I arrived; he had not got back from Whitchurch; he came back next day—I saw what the parcels contained that I gave to Burnett—it was plain and rupee paper—I think there were some "fives" and "tens" with it—Burnett said he had seen Brewer, and I must not go down any more for fear we should be found out—I stayed at Burnett's—next morning I went to Strutton Ground—Burnett gave me some Bank paper to carry for fear any one should collar him—I gave Burnett the paper at the top of Strutton Ground, and followed him down on the other side—I saw where be went to—he went into Buncher's shop—he had got the paper with him at that time—I think he was about an hour at Buncher's—he had not got the paper with him when he came back—he had not much money when he went to Buncher's; when he came hack he had a tidy lot—I remember the notice of the reward from the Bank coming out—Burnett said I had better go away some where, and stop a little while till it blowed over—he said he had got the other key; he said he must take it some where, and put it away—he did not show it to me—I did not go away; I went to Portsmouth; Burnett gave me the money—the next I knew of it was after the parties were discovered.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I believe you stated that your father was carpenter at this establishment? A. Yes; I don't know how long he had been so, all his life-time, I think—I had assisted him for five or six years—I was employed by Mr. Portal—Mr. Dusatoy hired me at 18s. a week—I did not give any security—I worked under my father's orders—my father lived just across the road, opposite the premises in, question—he did not keep a shop there—there were tools, and all those articles there—I lived with him in the same premises—I have a mother—she lived there also, and I have brothers and sisters there, all living in the same house—I had not access to the mills at all times—I had when the mills were open—in the place where I stole the paper from, there were only the two women at work, one at one end and one at the other—I had not to creep along the side, I was at work there—I was able to stand upright and steal the paper—it was Mrs. Burnett who suggested the matter to me—I met with her at the Three Horse-shoes, at Whitchurch—it was sometime after she asked me to do it that I began; I don't know how long; it might be a month after she had suggested it to me—I can't say how much I have made by the affair altogether—I cannot recollect any amount—I might have made 20l. not much more; no more that I know of—I think I made about 20l. by it during the whole time I was robbing my employers, and while I was connected with Brewer as well—not more, from first to last—I knew the purpose to which the paper was to be put—I knew that the object was forgery—Burnett proposed it to me, and explained it fully to me—I knew I was stealing this paper for the purpose of having an enormous amount of forged notes issued—I could not say the amount; the plain paper might be used for notes of any amount—I don't know what amount they put on—I knew they might put on any amount, from a thousand pounds downwards, and upwards also—I think I took three or four hundred sheets of this plain paper, from first to last—there are two notes in each sheet—I can't say the number of sheets of 5l. notes I took—I only took one large quantity of that—I don't know how much money Brewer made by it; he only had 9l. through me—that was given to me by Burnett for him—Burnett did not tell me why he told me to employ Brewer to steal the paper instead of leaving me to do it myself—Burnett sent me up first, and he sent me down afterwards to obtain the paper from Brewer, because I could not get it myself—I was out of the premises then—I left about June, 1861—I left because the work was very near done—it would have been done in another day or two, or a week or two—I was not discharged—I have been working in several places since 1861—I have worked in two places—I became acquainted with the fact of the reward being offered, the next day after it came out—I communicated to the authorities about six weeks after that—I was at work at Westminster in the meanwhile, for Mr. Kidd, the governor of the Cartwright Company—I kept out of the way for a little while, for two or three days, for fear I should be caught—I stopped at Mr. Kidd's house—he did not know that I was keeping out of the way—he let me stay at his house because I asked him to—I did not give him any reason—I told him I wanted to stop there a few days, and he let me—I did not tell him why—I went out sometimes in the day—by keeping out of the way, I mean keeping away from where I lived—I did not see Burnett during that time, he was gone into the country—I did not look after him; I never saw him afterwards—I gave information about six weeks after the reward came out, first to Mr. Hamilton, the inspector; I went to him—I was directed to go to him by Webb, the detective—Webb came to me in Westminster; Webb came to

me first while I was stopping at Mr. Kidd's house—I don't know who sent him—he said he wanted to see me about the Bank-note robbery—I did not tell him all about it then—I told him at first that I did not know anything about it—he did not become a little persuasive upon that—he let me go again—he let me go on the Saturday, and came again on the Monday—he had brought me up to the chief office—he did not have me in custody; I went up with him—I never tried to get away from him; I was about an hour at the chief office—I told him then that I knew nothing about it, and he let me go—I saw him again on Monday.

COURT. Q. What Saturday and Monday was this? A. About six weeks after the reward came out.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Can't you give any date nearer than about six weeks? A. It might be more; I can't be certain—Webb did not come to me on the Monday—I went and saw Mr. Hamilton on the Monday—I told some of my story then; I told part of it at first—I told them that I was a thief—I told them that candidly—I told them that Brewer was a thief—I did not tell them all the statement at once—Mr. Hamilton took some of it, and Mr. Smith took tome of it—I told it all, part to one and part to the other—I told everything—I am now under the care of the police—they keep me away from all the others—I am living with Smith, the detective—I have been living with him ever since, not all the time with him exactly, I have lived with another of the detectives, Harris—they have taken me down to the premises sometimes, three or four times—I have not heard the story that Smith is going to tell about peeping through a hedge; I only heard it at the Mansion-house—I have not been taken down to the hedge; I have never had the place pointed out to me by any of the detectives—I have not been associated with anybody but Burnett, and the others I have mentioned, during this transaction—yes, with Cato; I was living with him a little while—he is a gas-fitter—I was not working for him, I lodged at his place—I have been living alone during the whole time; I swear that; since I left the Burnetts; I lived with them part of the time—except with them I have been living alone—that I swear solemnly—no woman has lived with me, never, not during the whole of the time, nor ever has—I have not associated constantly with any woman in particular—there was once a woman slept at my father's house; I did not sleep with her—I slept in the same house—she was a girl I brought from Portsmouth with me, not a prostitute, a girl I kept company with—I brought her from Portsmouth about a month before the reward came out, or five weeks, it might be—I knew her when I first went to Portsmouth, six weeks before Christmas, 1861—I did not keep up the acquaintance all the time from that period—I saw her sometimes.

Q. Now, I ask you on your solemn oath, whether you did not cohabit with that girl? A. Yes, I did; from about Christmas, and I was doing so at the time the reward was offered—I took that girl to the house where my mother and sisters were—I did not sleep with her that night—I can swear that—I did not sleep in the same room—she slept down stairs with mother, in my mother's bed—I was not living with her—my mother knew I was cohabiting with her, and my father also—she was About seventeen years old—she wore a hat, a black dress, and a black shawl—the premises close about 5 o'clock—at 4 o'clock they would just be about leaving—it is Mr. Shenton Dusatoy's duty to close the premises, all the mills, and to see that everybody has left them—neither my father nor I could get into the mills after they were closed—there were no keys at my father's; he had one key for

the shop, that was all—that would not get one into the mills—no paper was left on the machine at night, they always emptied the machine every night; the robbery from that part of the machine must have been effected during the daytime—the paper is put at night into a room in the mill, this room (pointing it out on the model)—that would be the duty of Mr. Marshman, who was looking after the machine, and then it was locked up—it was about May or June, 1861, that Brewer detected me coming out with some paper—I think Brewer lived at Whitchurch at that time—I am not certain—from that time I and he perfectly understood each other—I considered we were engaged together in plundering our employers—I never had any talk with him about how much he was to get by it—he asked me several times what Burnett was going to give me out of it—he did not learn how much I had got out of it—it was some time after that I was at the Prince Regent with him; that is just out of Whitchurch—it was there we had some brandy-and-water—George Voukes keeps the house—he has a wife, no servants—I am not sure whether it was Mrs. or Mr. Voukes who served us with the brandy-and-water; it was one of the two—I was well-known there—I don't know whether either of them are here to day—I have not been taken down to see them by the detectives; I have not been down there at all—the detectives asked me who served us, and I told them I knew it was one or the other of them—I don't know which of the officers it was that I said that to—I did not learn that he had been down to make inquiries—it was about six weeks before Christmas that Brewer borrowed the saw—it was not on that occasion that be gave me the key—I believe this to be the key he gave me—it was the second time I went there that he gave me the key, just after Easter, 1862.

COURT. Q. Are you sure it was Easter, 1861? A. This last Easter, 1862.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. When was this key shown you? A. That was the first time I saw it—this key was shown to me about a month ago at the Mansion-house, by Mr. Webb—I know nothing about where it was found, they never said anything to me about that—they never asked me anything about the key—I stated in my evidence that I brought the key to London—I did not state it before I gave my evidence—at the time I stated it in my evidence, I had not seen this key; I did not know they had one; I am quite sure about that—I had never heard anything about a key being found in a door; I have heard of it since I was at the Mansion-house—I did not know that my father was discharged in consequence of it—I did not hear that he was discharged for it—I never heard that he was discharged the day after the key was found—I don't know how long he has been discharged—I went on one occasion with Brewer to the Red House, in Whitchurch—that was about a fortnight after Christmas—Richard Dun ford keeps that house—he has no wife—he has a mother and sister, who serve in the house—neither of them are here that I know of—I told the detectives of my having been there with Brewer; I did not learn from them whether they had been down to make inquiries—the night I slept at Brewer's house I had come from London—I got out at Basingstoke; I don't know what time I arrived there—it was the time the parliamentary train gets there; I don't know the time—I may have recollected the time—I knew the time when I was examined at the Mansion-house, but I can't think of it now—it is some time in the middle of the day that the parliamentary train gets there; about 2 o'clock, I think it is—it was about 7 or 8 when I got to Overton; I don't know

exactly—I left the public-house about 10, I think, or between 9 and 10—I can't be positive whether it was not ten minutes after 10 that I left the public-house—I can't say whether it was after 10—I have not said that it was after 10, that I am aware of; I could not swear that I have not—I am not sure whether or not I told Webb or one of the detectives that it was ten minutes after 10 when I left the public-house—I am sure I never said it was ten minutes past 10—I am not sure whether I said it was after or before 10; I said it was about 10—it might be between 9 and 10; I can't be certain—it might be after 10; I can't say—the public-house is kept by Fraser—I had some beer there, and then I went to Brewer's house—that is about two miles; it is not between three and four miles—I walked there—there was no one at Brewer's house but himself and his wife—I got there about 11, I think—I left Brewer's next afternoon about 3 o'clock, not before; I dined there—there cannot be the least doubt about that—I know Freefolk-bridge; that is about three hundred yards from Brewer's house—I had not been out of Brewer's house at all before 3 o'clock, when I left—I did not meet my mother that morning; I never saw her at all when I was down that time—I was not crossing the fields with her—I do not remember at any time crossing the fields with my mother, when she was crying—I am quite certain I did not about that period—I have never been charged with anything before of any kind.

MR. BOVILL. Q. You say you first told the detective that you did not know anything about it? A. Yes—at that time I was not aware whether anybody had been taken into custody—at the time, I told what I knew about it—I was quite aware of it—when I did make the statement, I was not aware whether anybody had been taken into custody—I did not know that Burnett had been taken into custody on this case; I knew he had been before—at the time I told Mr. Hamilton what I knew, I did not know whether anybody else had told the whole story—I did not know that Burnett had made any statement; he was not in custody then—I have no hope or expectation of obtaining a single penny of the reward—I never heard whether Burnett was to have anything, or when—the paper is deposited in a place called the pack-room—there is no outer door to that room—you get in against the end of the machine-house here (referring to the model)—there is a way in there—that door is called the machine-room door—it sometimes goes by the name of the north door—you go through that door, then through another door, and then into the pack-room—I don't know whether the key that Brewer gave me would open that north door or the pack-room door.

Q. You have been asked whether you cohabited with this young woman; what do you understand by cohabiting? A. Keeping company with her—she was the daughter of the woman where I lodged—I had no marriage engagement with her; I never said anything about that—she was not the woman that I had to meet in London by Brewer's direction—it was Mrs. Burnett who first suggested to me to take the paper—before I took any, I had been spoken to by Burnett once.

COURT. Q. Let us distinctly understand what you imagine to be the meaning of cohabiting with a woman; what do you mean by it? A. Keeping company with her, I understand—I do not mean living with her as my mistress—I was not living with her.

Q. Do you mean it in the sense in which we understand it? A. Yes.

ELLEN MILLS . I have been living for some years with Burnett as his wife—I first made the acquaintance of the witness, Henry Brown, in April,

1861—I met him at Whitchurch, at the Plough, first, and at my sister's, the Three Horse-shoes—in April I spoke to him about getting paper from the mill; that was by Burnett's direction—I remember his bringing some paper from the mill; I saw it; it was plain paper; it was given to me, and I gave it to Burnett—after receiving that paper I and Burnett went to London for some days—we stopped at 7, Milton-crescent, Euston-square—I stopped at home, and Burnett went out—when he came back he brought some money with him; I did not see how much—after that visit to London I and Burnett went back again to Whitchurch—I saw Henry Brown there again, both at the Plough and also at my sister's, the Three Horse-shoes—I remember his bringing some paper—that was about a fortnight or three weeks after our return to Whitchurch—after that I, and Burnett, and Brown, went up to London—we stopped that time at a public-house in Drury-lane; two nights and one day—on the afternoon of the day we returned to Whitchurch; we dined in the Strand—I saw Burnett give Brown two sovereigns when he parted from him in the afternoon—we did not go back to Whitchurch till the next day—I saw Brown repeatedly after my second return to Whitchurch; I can't say how often; I saw him on several occasions—I remember Brown asking a question about a person named Lancaster; he asked Burnett if the man's name was Lancaster that he was giving the paper to—he said it was not—he said Brewer wished to know—I remember Henry Brown leaving Laverstoke—before he left besides the paper I have mentioned, he brought more; I can't say how much—I remember the day of the fire in Tooley-street—I and Burnett went up to London that day—we stopped at Stratford that time, at Burnett's brother's, the Railway Hotel—while we were there, Brown came and stayed there two or three nights—he afterwards had a lodging in the neighbourhood—we stayed in Stratford six weeks that time—we then went back again to Whitchurch—I can't remember how long we remained there then, but some time—we left somewhere in October, '61; I can't state the day of the month—I remember Brown coming to our lodging in Long's-court, where we lived after leaving Whitchurch in October, '61; that was just after Christmas, '61—I went with Brown to look after Burnett—we found him at the Victoria Theatre, and went to a public-house together, and then returned home—Brown had some of the bank paper with him at that time—Brown stayed at our house that night—Burnett went out next day; Brown stayed at our house in the meantime—when Burnett came back he had some money with him; I did not see him give any of it to Brown—I was given to understand that he took some of the paper with him when he went out; I did not see it—I remember Burnett going down to Portsmouth in the year 1862; he said he was going to see Henry Brown—I went with him once to Portsmouth; that was in March, 1862—I remember after that seeing a parcel of paper that Brown brought—that was after Easter; it was in London—I did not see what was done with that paper—Burnett took some of it out; be said he had to go out the next day—I did not see any money when he returned—he went again the next day, and brought back a joint of meat—I went myself to Strutton-ground, I think, in August—I went with Burnett—he took some of the bank paper with him—he went to a butcher's shop; I know that it was Buncher's—I have gone into the shop myself on several occasions—I went to take some paper—that was when we were living in Angel-place; it was after I had been with Burnett—when I went with Burnett I merely waited for him; I went into the shop; Burnett passed through into the back parlour—I did

not hear or see anything that passed on that occasion—I saw Buncher then, and his wife; they were in the book shop into which Burnett went—I had nothing to say to Buncher at that time—Burnett brought some money away on that occasion—I never saw the paper again that he had taken with him—when I went by myself with the bank paper I gave it to Mrs. Buncher—I can't remember if Buncher was there the first time I went.

COURT. Q. When was the first time? A. I think it was the latter end of August.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did Mrs. Buncher give you anything? A. She gave me money; I don't remember how much—I went again very shortly afterwards—I took paper on several occasions—I had nothing to do with Buncher at all; I had no dealings with him; I dealt with Mrs. Buncher—I saw Buncher once—he spoke to me; merely passed the time of day, that was all—on one occasion he asked me when I thought Bill was going to send him some more paper—Burnett's Christian name is William—I have not seen Buncher on any occasion hand money to Mrs. Buncher—I did not bring money away on all occasions when I took paper there—I have brought meat and money—about six weeks before the reward was offered, Brown came to our house—I can't be positive whether he brought anything with him—I have seen him with a black bag after we removed to Angel-place; I can't remember how long that was before the reward was offered—I remember Brown and Burnett going away together; it was on a Sunday, I think—I can't say how long that was before the reward was offered.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You were the person, were you not, who suggested to Brown to rob his employers? A. I asked Brown—I was told to ask him—he did not require much persuasion—I merely asked him, and he brought it a very short time after—I can't say how long after; it was a few days; I cannot say how many—he did not bring it the very next day, or the day but one after—I cannot remember what day he brought it; in about a week, I think—he did not make any difficulty at all about it—directly I asked him, he said he would see what he could do, and a week afterwards he brought it.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Were you living in Angel-place at the time you called alone, on both occasions, at the butcher's shop? A. I do not remember—I called there on several occasions while I was living at Angel-place—I was living there when I called alone—I don't remember how many times I have called there alone—on all occasions, when I took paper there, the female whom I saw was the only person who ever gave me money, and the only person to whom I gave bank note paper—I had conversations with her about the paper at different times—Buncher came into the room, after I got there, on several occasions—the female fetched him into the room herself.

COURT. Q. Do you mean that the dealings were over before she fetched him? A. Yes.

MR. PATER. Q. Do you say that it was in August last that you first went to the shop? A. I really cannot remember when I first went—I will undertake to swear that on one occasion Buncher put some question to me about the paper—the words he used were, when I thought that Bill would send him some more paper—I cannot swear whether he said paper or papers—I am not aware whether Burnett has ever sent him a country paper—I have known Burnett ten years—I was convicted with him in 1857 for receiving stolen goods, and was sentenced to four years' penal servitude—we came out of prison on the same day, the 23d of February, 1861—it was in

April, 1861, that I mentioned to Brown about taking paper from the mills—I have gone by two or three other names besides Ellen Mills; am I bound to answer what they were?

COURT. Q. Why should you not? A. It is very disagreeable—I have been called Burnett and Williams.

MR. PATER Q. Any other name? A. Yes; Day—it was when I passed by the name of Williams that I was convicted at the Middlesex Sessions—that was not on a charge of stealing a watch from a gentleman; it was for being in company with a person who stole it—that was in 1854—a policeman of the name of James Sankey was tried with me—I left prison on that occasion in the July following—I never separated from Burnett—I merely paid a visit to some friends—when I left the prison I rejoined Burnett—I cannot say how long I remained with him before I left; I don't remember—I did not leave London; it was in London that I paid the visit to some friends—I decline giving their names—I don't know where they reside now—they resided at Walworth at that time—I remained with them a very short time; two or three days, or a week, it might have been; not a month—I rejoined Burnett after leaving them—I was taken into custody on this charge—I was not asked what evidence I could give before I was discharged—I volunteered to inform the authorities that I could give information—I was released from custody on 5th November—I informed the police authorities on that day that I could give information in this case—I am living under the care of the police—I have not quarrelled with Burnett—we were on the best of terms up to the last moment—my motive in coming forward to give evidence is merely to speak the truth—if my evidence will lighten Burnett's sentence in any way, I hope it will—I have had no hope held out to me of that—that is not my object in coming forward to give my evidence—I don't know if it will lighten it or not—if it does lighten the sentence, I hope it will.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. You say yon hate been known by the name of Day; has not Burnett been frequently called by the name of "Bill Day?" A. Yes, and on that account I have borne the name of Day also, just as I have that of Burnett—I cannot tell about what time it was that Buncher asked when Bill meant to send some more paper; it was in 1862—I don't remember when—it was while this taking of the paper was going on—I cannot say whether it was before the reward was offered—I believed that Buncher meant the bank paper when he asked that question—it was the bank paper which I had on every occasion carried to Buncher's—it is Buncher's shop that I have been speaking of—on every occasion that I carried the paper to Buncher's shop, I delivered it to his wife, and on several of the occasions, although he was out of the way at the moment I delivered the paper, I saw him afterwards; Mrs. Buncher fetched him in.

JOHN STANLEY . I am a bricklayer, living at Birmingham—I occasionally wait at a public-house there, called the Robin Hood—I did so in the autumn of last year—at that time I saw Griffiths at the Robin Hood—I had known him for many years—another gentleman was with him—Mr. Griffiths said it was Mr. Buncher—he said that Mr. Buncher was going to London that night—they came into the public-house together—I served them with ale—I saw them together twice—I should say it was about 3 o'clock one time, and 6 the other—I think it was on the Friday and the Sunday—I said that I was coming up to the Exhibition, and Griffiths said, "Where are you going to stop at?"—I said, "The last time I was up, I stopped in Little College-street;" and Buncher said, "If you come there, it is handy my

house"—he told me where it was, but I forget the number—it was in Strutton something, at Westminster—I did not come up—they were going to write me out his direction, but we had not a bit of paper, so I did not have it; but Griffiths said he would give me his direction when I went—Buncher is the person I have been speaking of (pointing to him)and Griffiths is the other.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Was Buncher present at any time when you had these conversations with Griffiths? A. Yes; I swear that—I have never expressed any uncertainty about it—I was a waiter at this public-house—it was there that I first saw Buncher—I am certain he was present when Griffiths alluded to him.

JOHN MOSS . I am a detective officer of the City—I have been engaged since August, in respect of some of the occurrences the subject of this prosecution—in consequence of information and instructions I received, I obtained permission to go to the house of Mr. and Mrs. Campbell, 13, North Kentterrace, New-cross—I proceeded there on Saturday, 6th September, about 5 o'clock in the morning, accompanied by Smith and Baker, two other officers—we first went into the front-parlour and removed two bricks from the partition-wall, separating the front-parlour from the back, and hung a little picture, a print, over the hole, so as to avoid any person seeing it—we then went into the back-parlour, and remained secreted there—we were able from that spot to hear distinctly all that passed in the adjoining room—from what Mrs. Campbell said to me, I went up stain into the back-room on the first-floor, looked out at the window, and saw the prisoner Buncher come into the house, and go into the front-parlour—it was then half-past 1 in the day—he was with another man; not one of the prisoners—I first heard a knock at the street door; a Mrs. Cleft answered it; and Buncher inquired if Mrs. Campbell was in—she said, "Yes;" and Mrs. Campbell was called down stairs—Buncher said, "Good day; are you prepared to-day?"—she said, "Yes"—Buncher said, "How much?"—Mrs. Campbell said, "Fifty"—he said, "That is no good; I want the 200, as promised on Wednesday night"—(I am referring to a note which I made at the time)—she said, "I cannot spare more than that, the first time, for I have to take your word whether I get rid of them; how many have you got?"—he said, "Ten fifties"—she said, "Have you got any gold I"—he said, "Not to-day; but let me see the money first; business is business; I want the 200, as promised the beginning of the week"—she said that she could not spare so much—Buncher said, "Let me see what you have got?"—she said, "How much have you got?"—he said, "I have plenty of tens and fives; I will go and fetch them"—he then left the house—(the other man was not in the room during this time; he was in a room by himself, and Buncher was alone with Mrs. Campbell)—Buncher was away, perhaps, ten minutes, and when he came back, the man, calling himself Campbell, was present as well as Mrs. Campbell—the other person did not come in with Buncher at first; he did afterwards—Buncher then said to Campbell, "Now, the stuff!"—Campbell said that his wife had it up stairs—Buncher became very violent at that time, and made a great deal of noise—he said, "You are playing the fool with me"—as far as I could see and hear, the Campbells did not produce any money; I do not believe they did—Mrs. Campbell went outside, and, I believe, called the other man in, who came in, and said to Buncher, "Come along, George; do not make a fool of yourself"—Buncher said, "Now, the stuff, you little humbug; you are playing the fool with us; it is not b—likely we are going to part with the things till we get the money;

you take me to be a b—fool, but you are mistaken; in fact, you were never more mistaken in your life, you little b—; once for all, you know there is 1,500l. reward for me; I am the b—man that has got all the bank paper; I have 30,000 now, and the b—Bank of England cannot stop it"—Campbell said, "Will you let me see the notes, and I will get the money?"—Burnett said, "It is not b—likely; we do not do business like that; but if you show me the money, I will take my oath, and kiss this book; may I be b—well paralysed, and may God strike me b—blind, if you put the money in my hands, you shall have the goods within, say, a quarter of an hour, and the things shall be here, so help me Jesus Christ"—he continued to ask for the money, and, I believe, from what I could hear, Campbell showed him a little money—he said, "That is no good; I have brought this man from the country; I have lost all this day, Saturday; if I had been at home, at my shop, I should have earned 3l. or 4l.; pay our expenses"—he was so violent that the other man came in again, and said, "Come along, George; do not make a fool of yourself"—the Campbells did not give his any money, and the other person who was with him persuaded him to go away—Buncher said, "If you will not pay me my expenses, lend me two sovereigns;" and the man who was with Buncher said, "Come along; I will lend you 2l."—they then went away—on Monday, 27th October, I apprehended Buncher outside his house, 38, Strutton-ground, Westminster, a butcher's shop—after the examination at the Mansion House, on 7th November, he was remanded till the 14th, and when he got down stairs he said to me, "Moss, I took you to be a different man to that"—I said, "What do you mean?"—he said, "You have stated quite as much as I said, and, I think, a little more"—I said, "No, I think it is about right"—I has certainly not stated more than I actually heard him say on that occasion, nor near so much—he said, "Do you know that little b—, that gave you the office, afterwards put us a-fly (that means intimating something to them that it would be better for them not to go again; that is the construction I should put upon it), or you would have had us the next time, so help me God"—I said, "Nonsense"—he said, "He did, and we gave him a couple of quid for telling us"—that means two sovereigns.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Do you remember the date when Burnett and the other prisoners were brought up at the Mansion House? A. The 28th October, I believe, was the first time—I gave evidence against him on 7th November—I have mentioned, before to-day, the conversation which took place on 7th November, in which he acknowledged to have said what I state to-day, and a little more—I informed Mr. Freshfield the same evening—I am quite sure that that statement was made after I was examined—I apprehended him on 27th October, and searched the house the same night—every facility was given me for searching the house—I made a thorough search—I had plenty of assistance at hand—on the bed in which Mr. and Mrs. Buncher were sleeping, there were so many blankets that it is almost impossible for me to tell you how many; there were from twenty to thirty pairs; and sheets, counterpanes, and different things—I made a thorough search, but did not find anything—I believe there were no notes produced at the time the first conversation took place.

COURT. Q. Was any one present when this conversation took place in the cells? A. The other prisoners were there, and there were one or two down stairs, but I do not know that they heard it.

WILLIAM SMITH . I am an officer of the detective police—on 6th September, I accompanied Moss to 13, North Kent-terrace, New-cross, at

5 o'clock in the morning—we made a hole in the wall, and hung a picture over it—that enabled Moss to hear what took place in the next room—he was the nearest to the hole most of the time, and I at intervals—about I o'clock, Buncher knocked at the door; Mrs. Cleft, the landlady, opened it—Buncher said, "Is Mrs. Campbell in?"—she said, "She is; she is up stairs"—I knew Buncher's voice—I heard his footstep come into the front-parlour—I only heard at intervals what passed there—after some conversation between Mrs. Campbell and Buncher, which I could not hear clearly, Buncher said, "I have fives and tens"—she said, "I have it up stairs"—some other conversation took place, and he said, very loudly, "That won't do for me; that won't do"—some more conversation took place between them, and Buncher left—he returned again—a communication was made to us, in the back-parlour, by Mr. Campbell, who then left us, and went into the parlour to Buncher—Buncher became very violent, and said, "Pay me the 200l. down; I have got 30,000l. worth of the right stuff; I do not care for the b—Bank of England; if you do not pay the 200l. down, the stuff shall be put away in a quarter of an hour"—soon after that he left—he returned, apparently accompanied by another person—I heard two footsteps—he said, "Pay me 2l.; I want 2l. for my expenses in coming down here; if you do not give it to me, I will knock your b—nose in, and break all the b—things in the house"—the voice in the passage said, "Come on, George; do not be a fool;" and he left with the other person—I followed out after them to the door, and saw Buncher in company with another man—Buncher had his hand in his right-hand pocket, in a stooping position, talking to the other man—they went away—Baker, another officer, was with me.

EDWIN MARK WIMHURST . I am a waiter at the Admiral Napier public-house in Amersham Vale, New-cross—I was there in September last—I know Buncher by sight—the first time I saw him was on Wednesday, 3d September last—he came to the house—I can't say how long he was there, for in the meantime Mr. Campbell sent for me to North Kent-terrace, and I went to him there—I saw Buncher again on Saturday, 6th September, about half-past 1 in the day—he went to North Kent-terrace first—I saw him go there to Campbell's—I did not see him go into the house, only go towards it—he afterwards returned with Campbell and another man, younger than himself—they went up Douglas-street towards High-street, Deptford—they returned again in about twenty minutes, and Campbell went on towards, North Kent-terrace—Buncher and the other man came into our side bar and had some brandy—Buncher then went into Napier-road, leading into North Kent-terrace, where he and the other man had conversation together, for two or three minutes—I then saw Buncher go down North Kent-terrace, towards Campbell's house—I did not see him go in—the other man stayed in Napier-street, some considerable time, walking up and down—I afterwards saw Buncher come out of North Kent-terrace, join the other man, and then they both went to 13, North Kent-terrace—I walked down Napier-road, and was just in time to see them enter Campbell's house.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Had you ever seen Buncher before your attention was called to him by Campbell? A. No.

JOHANNA BRYDGES . I am the mother of the prisoner Burnett—I remember Henry Brown coming to my house to ascertain my son's address—at that time I saw some papers in his possession; note papers, bank note Papers—I did not give him my son's address at first; ultimately I did—I remember my son afterwards bringing some keys—this (produced by Webb)

is one of them—I can swear to it—I kept it for some time, and afterwards buried it in my garden—the police afterwards came down and found it—I pointed out where it was, and gave it to them.

JAMES BROWN . I am a brother of Henry Brown—I work at St. George's brewery, Portsmouth—I remember my brother coming down there about a fortnight before Christmas, 1861—he stayed about two months—before he went away, Burnett came down to see him; that was somewhere in March, I think—some short time after Burnett's first visit, he came down again with his wife—I can't be certain whether that was the week following his first visit, or the next week—they came into the brewery tap, and stayed there from about 11 to 12 o'clock, and then went to my house—they left by the 7 o'clock train, or about 7, the same day—Burnett came down again by himself; I think the following week, or it might have been a week after, I won't be positive.

DANIEL CHAPMAN . I am station-master at the Overton station, on the South Western Railway—on a Sunday in July last year, I remember Henry Brown coming to the Overton station by the Basingstoke train—I can't say for certain what Sunday in July it was, but I believe it was the 13th; it was in July—he had with him an oil-case black bag and a great coat, which he was carrying over his arm—he was the worse for liquor; that attracted my attention, and also that of several boys in the yard; they laughed at him—I remember a porter, named Dodd, coming to the Overton station—he arrived on Friday, 4th July—that could not have been on the first Sunday after Dodd came, because he was not on duty then; it must have been the Sunday after, for I saw Dodd on that occasion, and he walked out of the yard with Brown—the train, by which Brown came, was due at Overton at 7.38 in the evening.

WILLIAM DOOD . I am porter at the Overton station—I arrived there on Friday, 4th July—I was not on duty on Sunday the 6th—I was the next Sunday—I saw the evening train arrive from Basingstoke—Henry Brown was in that train—it was due at 7.38—he had a black bag and an Inverness cape—I went with him into the village of Overton—he was very drunk indeed—next day I saw him again by the up train from Exeter, due at 3.32—he was in the train—that train starts from Exeter at 10.30—I saw him at Overton, in the train; he spoke to me—that train goes to Basingstoke.

DAVID TREACHER . I am a carpenter, living at Overton—I know Henry Brown—I saw him on Sunday, 13th July last, a little before 9 in the evening, about half way between Laverstoke mill and Overton—he was going to Laverstoke—Litchfield was with him—Mrs. Treacher and I were going to Overton, and they were going to Laverstoke—just afterwards we met George Smith and Mrs. Litchfield.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. How far was it from the Overton station? Q. I don't know exactly; a mile and a half, I suppose, and about three-quarters of a mile from Laverstoke—it was between 8 and 9 o'clock; before 9—that was the time I was going home—I know the time, because it was just before the bell rang 9—I mean Mr. Portal's bell at Laverstoke—I had not heard the bell before I met these people—I am speaking of Mr. Portal's bell; the house-bell, I suppose, it is—Mrs. Treacher will be able to tell you—I have told you what I know—there is but one bell that I know of; Mr. Portal's house bell—I don't know whether that rings at 9; I have heard it several times—it generally rings at 9—I have heard it at times when I have been coming home from Whitchurch

—I never heard it ring at 10—I did not hear this bell—I was told that the bell rang just afterwards—Mrs. Treacher told me—I can't say when the told me; I think it was last Monday; we had a chat about what time it was, because we did not know before that we should be called upon—I know that I passed these people that evening, about that time; but I learnt the hour from my wife—I am not prepared to say how far we were from the house; it is in Laverstoke—I should fancy it is hardly so far as Laverstoke—it may not be so far as three-quarters of a mile; somewhere about that, I suppose, or from half a mile to three-quarters; I can't say—I was first spoken to about this matter by Mr. Frampton, the policeman at Overton—he did not tell me what time it was—he did not tell me that Smith had seen Brown go to Brewer's house—I can't bring it to my mind.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Do you know how far it is from the station at Overton, to the Laverstoke mills? A. No, I don't know the exact distance at all—Mr. Melville Portal has a house called "The Hall," at Laverstoke—that is not the same gentleman as Mr. Wyndham Portal, who has the mill—I am speaking of the bell that rings at the hall—the hall is a distance from the road, and there is a piece of water between, and a portion of the park—I did not hear the bell ring myself—this was the usual time that I come from Whitchurch when I go there—my wife's sister lives there; we had been spending the evening there, and were returning home at the usual time.

COURT. Q. What is the usual time that you generally pass by Laverstoke, and that part? A. Between 8 and 9; I can't say the exact moment.

SARAH TREACHER . I am the wife of last witness—I remember walking with him from Whitchurch to Overton on a Sunday in last July; it was the 13th—we had been to spend the day with my sister, and had been to Whit-church chapel—we met Henry Brown and William Litchfield on the road—they were going towards Whitchurch and Laverstoke—we met them about half way between Overton and Laverstoke—we also met George Smith and Mrs. Litchfield directly afterwards—I can't say what time it was when we left my sisters—it was between 8 and 9 when we met Brown—I know Mr. Melville Portal's house—I believe there is a house bell—I have heard it ring; it rings at 9 in the evening—I don't know how far that house is from Laverstoke; it stands in a park—I don't remember that I heard the bell ring that evening.

COURT. Q. Do you remember that you did not hear it, or is it only that you do not remember at all? A. I don't remember at all.

MR. MATTHEWS. Q. Is there anything which enables you to fix the time that you met these persons on the road? A. No—I say it was between 8 and 9, by the time I left Whitchurch—that was about half-past 7, as nearly as I can recollect—I don't know the distance I was from Whit-church when I met Brown—it was more then three-quarters of the way—we had been walking about an hour.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Is it your sister who is married and living at Whitchurch? A. Yes—she lives there with her husband—I do not go there very often on a Sunday evening—I was first asked about this last Monday morning—my husband knew the time as well as me; I was not obliged to tell him, that I know of, he guessed pretty well, as well as myself—I don't remember telling him the time—I did not

tell him how I knew the time—I did not tell him I had heard Mr. Portal's bell ring.

WILLIAM LITCHFIELD . I am a bricklayer's labourer at Overton—I know Henry Brown—I remember meeting him on a Sunday, in last July, between 8 and 9 in the evening, over right of Mr. Currie's house, in Southington, the beginning of Overton—he had a black shiney bag with him; there were two collars in it—I looked in it—after we got down the road some considerable distance, there was a gentleman coming along, and Brown flung the bag at him, and I picked it up—it was like this (produced)—it was one of this sort—I can't swear to the bag—it contained nothing but the two collars—I walked on with him towards Laverstoke—I can't say how near to Laverstoke I went with him—I should say between 300 and 400 yards; a little further then the bottom of the hill—I stopped and talked with him a little at the bottom of the hill—I then went on a little further with him, then I stopped and talked with him again, then I bade him good night, and turned back to Overton—Brown went on towards Laverstoke mill—I saw George Smith and my aunt, Mrs. Litchfield, on the road that evening.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. How long do you think you were talking to Brown? Q. Three-quarters of an hour—it was between 8 and 9 when I first met him—I should say I was half an hour talking to him at the bottom of the hill—it was nearer 9 than 8 when I first met him in Overton—he was the worse for liquor—he did not get on very quickly—he could walk pretty well after I left him, with an occasional stumble.

GEORGE SMITH . I am a carpenter—when I am at home, I work with Mr. Venn, a master-carpenter, at Overton—I formerly worked as carpenter in Mr. Portal's mills, at Laverstoke—I went there in 1860—I worked there from July, up to the Saturday before Christmas, 1860—I worked there again in 1862—I know the witness Henry Brown, very well—I have known him for some years—I also know Richard Brewer—I am well acquainted with the neighbourhood of Laverstoke—I remember the evening of 13th July last year—it was the Sunday before Overton fair—I had been to the Independent Chapel, at Overton, that evening—I left it about 8 o'clock, and went on the road for Southington, which joins Overton, and is on the way to Laverstoke—I should think it must be near three miles from the station at Overton to Laverstoke—I first saw Henry Brown near Tovey's-corner; that is before you come to Laverstoke mill; I should think about a mile short of it—I saw Mrs. Litchfield before that—I overtook her just below the house of a gentleman named Reed—that is nearly a mile short of the Laverstoke mills—I spoke to her, and walked gently on with her towards Laverstoke—it was while I was walking with her, that I first saw Brown—it was between 8 and 9 o'clock, that I overtook Mrs. Litchfield; not a great deal past 8—I should not think it was longer than ten minutes after overtaking her, that I saw Brown near Tovey's-corner—he and William Litchfield passed me—Brown appeared to be in liquor—I did not stop to speak to him at all; merely walked on—he passed me—he and Litchfield were going towards Laverstoke.

COURT. Q. They went quicker than you then, and passed you, is that what you mean? A. Yes.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. You were going towards Laverstoke-mill, and they passed you? A. Yes; near Tovey's-corner—they were walking along talking to each other; Brown staggering from one side of the road to the other, apparently a good deal the worse for liquor—they went on to Rotten-hill,

and when they got a little way over the hill they were out of my sight—that was not longer than a quarter of an hour after I had first seen them—I continued to go on with Mrs. Litchfield, and caught sight of Brown again at the bottom of Rotten-hill—he was stopping at the bottom of the hill, talking to William Litchfield—we went on within some distance of them, and then stopped for two or three minutes; they were standing talking—I could hear them in loud talk, but do not know what they wave talking about—we then went past them; when we had got a little way past them, they followed us—William Litchfield came on a short distance and then turned back towards Overton—Brown followed me on, and then passed by me, walking on the left-hand side of the road towards Laverstoke—he was walking upright and hardy then, he did not appear then as if he were in liquor—he continued in sight for a short time; I cannot say justly how long—I lost sight of him against the stile near the Laverstoke-mill before you come to the mill—the stile is on the left-hand side as you go towards Laverstoke—I don't know whether he crowed the stile—I was not watching him—I cannot tell where he went—that is where I lost sight of him—it was about from sixty to seventy yards short of the mill—Mrs. Litchfield and I were still together; we walked on just below the mill-gates; we then stopped—I could not hear the footsteps of anyone—I felt sure that he could not have got round to his father's in the time, according to the distance he was before us—he would have to turn up the left, go some little distance up the lane, and then through a gate straight along an the left—his father lived at the end house off the road—while I and Mrs. Litchfield stopped near the mill-gate, he could not have gone round to his father's house—we stopped there for about three minutes, I should thick—we then went on towards Freefolk, that is a place between Laverstoke and Whitchurch,—it is not more than ten minutes walk beyond the mill-gates—I parted company with Mrs. Litchfield at her garden-gate, at Freefolk—I stayed there two or three minutes, and then turned back towards Overton—when I had got something like within forty yards, or it might be a little more, of the mill, on the Freefolk side, I saw Henry Brown coming towards me.(pointing of the spot on the plan—Brown's father's house is up this Lane—the stone at the corner of this lane is a sort of post or landmark—when I got within about forty yards of the mill-gates, I saw Brown on the road, about fifty yards beyond the mill-gates, towards Overton—he was in the road, near the left-hand side, walking on towards the mill—the stile that I have spoken of is on the Overton side of the mill-gates, 130 or 140 yards along towards Overton—there is a plantation of fir-trees just over that stile—when I saw him coming in this direction I drawed in towards the hedge on my right-hand side going to Overton; he turned round the lane—I continued gently on up to the corner; I there stopped still—I wanted to see where Brown was going to—I did not speak to him or go up to him at all—he turned up by the wall and stopped somewhere close to the gate, near the house—he stopped there about two minutes—I then saw a man come down to him; that man came from Richard Brewer's door, and I believe Brewer to be the man—I am not certain whether be came out of the door—I don't think he did—I think he stood just outside of the door—he came from the direction of the door, and came up to Brown—Brewer said, "Good evening, Brown"—it was Brewer—Brown said, "Good evening," and then both went on into Brewer's house—I distinctly saw them both—they both went into Brewer's house—I still stood at this corner till they got inside the door, and then I went on towards Overton—I can tell within a few minutes, what the time was when I saw them go into Brewer's house—

it was near about 10 o'clock, it might be two or three minutes after—when I got back to the stile where I first lost sight of Brown, I stopped to light my pipe, and at the same time I pulled out my watch to see what the time was, out of curiosity; it was then twelve minutes past 10 by me—that stile may be 130 or 140 yards from the corner where I stood when I saw them go into Brewer's house—I then went on to Overton—I saw no more of Brown that night—at the time I saw him go into Brewer's house, there was no one else that I noticed within sight.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Are you a master carpenter? A. No; a journeyman, working for Charles Venn, at Overton—I have worked for him for nearly two years now, continuously—I swear that—I have been in regular work with him for two years, with no interval whatever—I have two brothers, carpenters—they are not servants at the mill, nor have they been that I know of—I have worked at the mill—I worked there in 1860, while Brown was there—I knew him pretty well—I associated with him—I was at school with him—I have known him since intimately; we were not in the habit of exchanging visits—I went to his father's house in 1860, when I worked at the mill—I have not been since; never that I can remember—I was first asked about this matter some time ago, I can't say justly the time—it might be a month or five weeks, something like that, I think—Frampton, the Overton policeman, came to me about it—he had heard, from some one, that I was on the road that night towards Laverstoke—he sent for me, and I went to him—we did not go together that day to the place where I saw brown go into Brewer's house—I have been there—I have been past there a good many times since then—I have not been to examine the place at all—I swear that—this little man, at the corner on the model, represents me; they found out where to put that because I told them where I stood—I showed them—I first showed Mr. Soper, on the spot—this hedge goes on towards Free folk—the place where I am put is the corner of the hedge—I was right at the corner; the hedge was not between me and Brown—I stood just at the corner—I have been there with Webb—I did not go to examine the hedge—I went to show him where I stood—they said nothing to me about the hedge—I only went down once with Webb—only once to show him that—I was down there besides, but not with Webb—he was down there, when I was there once afterwards, about a fortnight ago—I went down by myself—I had made an appointment with Webb—he told me to meet him there—I understood it was to take my likeness—he did not tell me what he wanted me for—he did not take my likeness—I don't know the man's name that did—I was photographed—a photographer was sent down with Webb—I was put there to have a photograph taken of the spot—the spot was taken, and I was photographed with it—that was about a fortnight ago—I had been down with Webb before that—I was not photographed separately—I think I had been there twice before I was photographed—once with Soper and once with Webb—I have not been often—I do not remember going with anyone else; I can't swear it—I have not been there three or four times with persons connected with the place, independent of the three times that I have spoken of—I cannot exactly say how many times I have been—I have passed the spot pretty often myself—I have not noticed the hedge particularly—I do not know how high the hedge is—I pointed out the place where I first went in towards the hedge—I did not examine several parts of the hedge before I pointed out the police where I now say I was standing—I looked at my watch merely out of curiosity, nothing else; I had done so occasionally before—there was no particular reason for my taking it out—I did not make any note of having seen

Brown then—I asked his brother on the following morning—I made a note the following day—I put the day of the month down on a bit of board, with a bit of chalk, on the side of the shop, where I was working; it is there now, I dare say—it is some time ago that I saw it last, when I took off the time where I put it down; the date was not on the board at that time—I never looked after it then—I looked to see whether that was the data, so that I might be quite sure, and I found the date there—I found what I had put down—I did not understand what you meant just now—I left the Overton chapel on this night somewhere about 8 o'clock—I can speak to that positively; it was about 8, it might be a few minutes either way—I should think it was about half an hour after that that I saw Brown and William Litchfield; that would be about half-past 8—it was at the foot of Rotten-hill that I saw them stop—I cannot say how long they were talking together, it might be about a quarter of an hour after I was in sight of them—I should not think it was more than that, if it was hardly that—I am sure it was past 9 when Brown reached the mill—if he had kept on after I saw him, it must have been past 9, I should fancy—I did not make a memorandum of the date about a fortnight before I was examined before the Magistrate; I had done it before—I did not make a memorandum of any kind then—I am quite sure of that—I did not make a memorandum about the staff about a fortnight before I was examined before the Magistrate—it was on 14th July that I did that—by the stuff I mean what the sawyers were cutting out at the place where I was working—I put down the day of the month that was cut out—it was the day before that that I saw Brown—I made the memerandum about the stuff on the Monday, and then I remembered that it was the day before that that I had seen Brown—I put it down on the 14th—the memorandum was not about the 14th, I mean about seeing Brown—it was the 13th that I put down—I put down the 14th for the stuff; and the 13th for the Sunday—what I put down was "13th of July and 14th of July"—those two dates without anything else; that was all that day—I put down the stuff afterwards, but nothing more about Brown—this is my signature to this depositions—(Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE, proposed to put the deposition into the witness's hand and desire him to read it through, and then to ask him whether he adhered to the answer he had previously given. Sir FITEROY KELLY submitted that such a course would be objectionable, as it would be using the deposition to refresh the memory of the witness, which could not be done, except by some memorandum made at the time, the deposition also was a document which could not be referred to unless it was put in evidence. Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE did not intend to use it for the purpose of refreshing the memory of the witness, but to test his credit. Mr. JUSTICE BLACKBURN did not see how it could be used towards a hostile witness, except for the purpose of contradiction, and if so, it was necessary to see what the document was that was proposed to be used for that purpose. Sir FITZROY KELLY referred to the cases of Rex v. Edwards, 8 Car and Payne, and Rex v. Ford, 2 Dennison 245. Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE, upon referring to the last named case, ceased to press he point further)—I did not speak to Brown when I saw him; I did not want to—I thought he was in beer, and I wanted to get along home—that was the only reason—I knew if I had met with him we should have got into a conversation, which it is not always suitable for a sober man to have with one who is in liquor—that was the reason I did not speak to him—I watched him—I never spoke to him afterwards and told him I had seen him go into Brewer's house—I have seen him since—I did not mention to him that I had chalked him down for the 13th—I am quite sure about its being

on the 14th that I chalked down about the stuff—I never chalked it down afterwards anywhere, that I swear—I do not remember what day it was that I was examined at the Mansion-house; I think it was on a Thursday some time in November—I did not make a memorandum about the stuff about a fortnight before that Thursday that I am aware of—I did not do so that I know of; am I bound to answer that question?—I did not do so; I swear that—I was examined by Mr. Freshfield or one of his clerks—he asked me how I remembered the day of the month, and I told him that I put it down with a bit of chalk on a bit of board—I do not remember telling him that I made a memorandum about the stuff a fortnight before—I cannot swear it—I do not remember it—I cannot tell every word that took place between me and Mr. Freshfield—I really forget whether I told him that I had made a memorandum about the stuff a fortnight before—if I said so it is true—I cannot tell whether I did or not—I have been at Winchester—I was not in the service of a person named Neale there—it was at St. Mary Bourne, about three miles from Whitchurch—I worked for a man named White at Winchester—I was in the gaol there about some tools—I was accused of stealing some—I had imprisonment—I believe it was three weeks; a month I should say—I think it was a month—I think it was in 1855—I believe so—the tools were not taken from one of my brother workmen that I know of—I was not there when they were taken—I did not do it—they asked me when I was taken up if I had any witnesses—I said, "Yes," and when I told them the man, he was dead and buried, and could not come forward, and they sent me to gaol—that was the only time—I know nothing about a handkerchief—I do not—know what you mean; I have no idea—I never heard of any charge about a handkerchief—I did not run away and enlist before I got this month's imprisonment—I did enlist—I cannot say how long that was before I was sent to gaol; it might be three or four months—the man who is dead and buried sold the tools to me—I was never charged with stealing timber at Penton—there was no suspicion about timber that came to my ears—I do not know whether my father is living or not—I know nothing about his begging me off when I was charged with stealing or borrowing timber—I never heard of it—I worked for Mr. Cubitt at Penton—I was discharged because the job was nearly finished—they kept their own hands on until it was finished; I was a country hand, the same as several more—Brown has a father, I believe—I saw him this morning and yesterday—I do not think I did the day before—he was having something in the same room that I was yesterday—I have not been to Brown's house lately—I have seen him here and at the Mansion House; nowhere else—I have not been in his company anywhere else—I did not see him before I came up here—I have not been in his company during the last two or three months—I have seen young Brown—I was at a Sunday school with him—I have seen him while this matter has been going on pretty frequently—I have had nothing to say to him about seeing him going into Brewer's house—I have talked to him—I do not know whether I have mentioned that or not—I cannot say—I do not know that I have talked to him at all about it—I have asked him how he has been, and passed the time of day—I did that yesterday morning, I believe—I cannot say whether it was before or after he was examined—I think it was somewhere in the morning—perhaps I might have been talking to him in the afternoon; I cannot remember—I was not talking to him about the evidence he had given—I said nothing to him about it, nor be to me—I do not remember ever talking to him about having seen

him while I was watching at the hedge—I cannot say whether I have or not—I saw him this morning over the way—I just said, "Good morning," I believe; no more—I swear that.

SIR FITEROY KELLY . Q. Is it true that you stole any timber, or were charged with stealing any? A. I never stole any, and I was never charged with stealing any or with borrowing any—I never stole a handkerchief—it is not true that I stole the tools about which I was brought into trouble—I was accused of it, but it was not true that I did it—I say that on my oath—I am thirty years of age, or thirty-two, I think it is—I never had my photograph taken except in connexion with this business—this (produced) is the photograph that was made—the figure here represents me—I was at that time standing on the spot on which I stood when I saw Brown go into Brewer's house—this represents Brewer's house—there was no hedge or anything to obstruct my view of Brewer's door at the time they went in—before I reached the spot I walked along on the grass near the hedge, and when I reached the spot I stood there by the stone till I saw them go in—it was the day after 13th July that I made the memorandum of the date—I merely wrote the date—all the rest to connect it with what I had seen that night is from memory—what makes me remember it more is talking to Brewer's brother—I put down nothing but 13th July as the day of the month when some timber was cut out at my master's—I wrote nothing further, merely the date—it was somewhere in the week that we finished cutting it out; I cannot state what day—it was a long time after that that I saw Mr. Freshfield—he put a good many questions to me, and I gave him answers—I did not at that time write down anything—I answered all the questions he put to me truly, to the best of my recollection—I had a conversation with Brown's brother the next day after seeing him—that impressed the circumstance on my recollection the more—I think I have asked Henry Brown if he remembered seeing me—I believe I asked him if he remembered seeing me that night—that was one day this week, I think—I do not know whether Brown's father lives in the same place now that he did then.

GEORGE BENNETT MUSSLEWHITE . I am a surveyor at Basingstoke—this model was not made under my directions, but it has been proved by me, and is quite correct—this other model I took the plan of myself, and it was made according to my directions—I was asked to stand by the side of the witness Smith at this corner—a person standing there could see another go into Brewer's house—I tested it myself and can state that fact positively.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What height is the hedge. A. Three feet nine from the bank, but just behind where Smith stood it would be eleven feet—I did not place him at the corner—I had nothing to do with putting him there—the hedge stands on a bank; it is three feet nine high—the hedge is about one foot above the fence—this model is made on a scale of four feet to the inch—it is thirty yards from where Smith stood to Brewer's door—Webb, Soper, Currier, and Smith were present—we did not all go down together; we met there—Smith took up his position first; and I stood next to him—I did not get him to leave his spot, and get into his place; I stood at his left hand—no one was sent over here to talk in order to ascertain whether they could be heard or not; they did not try that—it was about a quarter-past 7 in the evening that it was done—it was dark.

MR. BOVILL. Q. What month was it in? A. It was on 23d December—Webb went to the door of Brewer's house and knocked—I could hear him

knock, but I could not see him till the door was opened—I could then see that a man was standing in the porch, or in the verandah rather—a light was brought—he spoke to Mrs. Brewer, and then walked in—I saw that—the door was left open.

WILLIAM CURRIER . I am a sergeant in the Hampshire police, at Whit-church—on the evening of 23d December, I stood between Mr. Musslewhite and Smith, looking over their heads—Mr. Musslewhite was standing on the left of Smith—I saw Webb go up to Brewer's house—Mrs. Brewer came to the door and opened it—she went and fetched a light, and held it up to Webb's face, and then asked him indoors, and he went in—any person standing at the corner could see another go up to Brewer's house and go in—I was present when this photograph was taken—this was the only one taken of Smith—Mr. Chapman, the station-master of Overton, also took a photograph—I have seen a plan that was taken on behalf of the prisoners by a man named Ashley—I saw a party one day with Mr. William Brewer taking sketches, but not in the same position we were in—they were placed behind a hedge.

JANE LITCHFIELD . I am a widow, and live at Freefolk, near Laverstoke—I am employed at the mills—on Sunday evening, 13th July, 1862, I was at Overton chapel—I left there somewhere about 8 o'clock, and came on in a direction towards Freefolk—I went into a friend's house before I left Overton after leaving chapel—I stopped there a few minutes, and then went on towards Laverstoke—I met William Litchfield as I went home, going towards Overton, and then George Smith, of Overton, overtook me on the road, and walked on the road with me—the next persons I saw were Henry Brown and William Litchfield—they were going towards Laverstoke—they passed me—Brown had a black shiny bag in his hand—I next saw him from the top of Rotten-hill—he was then near the foot of the hill with William Litch field—they were stopping there—I stopped a short distance off them, and then walked slowly past some distance—I then turned round, and saw William Litchfield leave Brown, and turn back towards Overtone-Brown walked on in the direction of Laverstoke—I lost sight of him near a stile a short distance from the mill, on the left hand side of it—these is a small wood or belt, or something of that kind, near the stile; a narrow piece—I cannot say exactly the time when I lost sight of Brown by the stile—I do not exactly know the distance from the chapel to Laverstoke—it might be after nine—I cannot say—I stopped just past the mill for a few minutes—Smith was still with me—I then walked on to Freefolk—I never saw Brewer and Brown together; I once saw them some distance apart; I met then at Freefolk, going towards Laverstoke, from Whitchurch apparently.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Did Smith talk to you at your door at all that night? A. At the gate that leads into the garden—he stopped talking to me there a few minutes—he did not go in—I know the Brown's—I know Henry Brown—we are all neighbours—I have not seen much of him just lately—I have seen him in the mill, and out of the mill—I have not seen much of his father lately.

SUSAN BROWN . I am the wife of George Brown, a carpenter, who has worked for a great many yean at the Laverstoke mill, and am the mother of Henry Brown—I have seven sons and daughters; the youngest is twelve years' old—during the last summer my son Henry was a good deal away from Laverstoke—it is not true that I saw him on Freefolk-bridge on a Monday, about the middle of July, or that he was going across the fields with me—I did not see him at all on Sunday, 13th July, or Monday, 14th

—a young person, named Emma Davey; was brought to our house by my son, sometime early in last summer, while he was living at Portsmouth—she stayed with as five or six days—she slept with my little girl, the youngest, twelve years old, in a room by themselves—there was nothing that I know of in her conduct and character then, but what was perfectly respectable—she behaved herself very well then—I had not the least idea of anything inconsistent with a perfectly good character—she was introduced as a respectable young woman, the daughter of the person at whose house my son lodged.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you remember whether your son slept at home the Sunday after the 13th? A. No; he was not at home—I believe ha was at home on the Sunday before the 13th—I do not know whether he was or not—I cannot say exactly—I cannot remember the dates—I knew yesterday, for the first time, that I was to me a witness—I was never examined before—I was not asked until yesterday whether my son slept at home on the night of the 13th—the young girl is over the way now—I do not know who she is with—she has been with me—she is not with my son—she is over the way with all the rest of them—I believe she is a witness, I do not know—I do not know whether she was here yesterday; I was not here—I was never walking on Freefolk-bridge with my son, not to my recollection—I do not know that I was ever there with him in my life—no, I was not—it is not true that the girl slept with me; she slept with my daughter.

GEORGE BROWN . I am the father of Henry Brown—I am going on for fifty-seven years of age—I was born in 1806—I was in the employ of Messrs. Portal, of Laverstoke, forty-three yean last March—I went to work for Mr. Portal in 1819—my father worked there before me, over fifty years, I believe, and my grandfather also—I was discharged from the service on 8th or 9th September last; I am not sure which—it was in the early part of September—I understood it was in consequence of a key having been found, that was said to have been lost for some years—I did not know anything of that key—I don't remember ever hearing about its being lost—I did not see my son Henry on Sunday, 13th July—he did not sleep in my house that night, or come there—we never saw him at all at our house, and did not know that he was there until afterwards—we heard of it afterwards.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I see you have a perfect recollection about 13th July? A. I am not certain about the date, but it was near about that time—it was in the early part of July, but I could not swear it was the 13th—I recollect very well that be never came to our house at that time—it was as near that as possible, but I an not certain to a day—I am certain, to a week—he was not there on Sunday, the 20th, that I know of—I never saw him on the 20th, that I recollect—I think he was there on the 6th; believe so—yes; he was—I was turned away on 8th September, I think—I was asked about 13th July, when I was examined by Mr. Freshfield—I believe that was not the first time; it was before that, by Mr. Hamilton, I believe, one of the policemen—I don't remember whether, or not, he asked me if I remembered the 13th July, in particular—I can't recollect—I don't recollect when I was asked how I remembered that my son never came to my house on 13th—I was at home when my son brought the girl from Portsmouth; at least, I was out at work that day, but I came home in the evening—he had never brought her home before—I know the Burnett's—they have been to my house two or three times, in the summer of 1861—my son Henry introduced me to them

—he asked me if I had any objection to their coming to oar house, and they came in the summer of 1861—they were there two or three times—I am not certain to a time; I can't be positive—they came one Sunday—they were not there on 13th July; I am sure about that—they were not there on the 20th; I am quite sure about that—Burnett was there in July, not Mrs. Burnett—she was there the summer before that, in 1861—Burnett was with as some time in the early part of July—he called in to see me one evening when I was at home with a bad leg—he called to see me—he did not know that I had a bad leg until he came—I have not been a good deal with the Burnett's—I have been with them several times at Whitchurch, drinking at public-houses—I can't exactly say how often—not so many as fifty or sixty—it might be ten or a dozen times, very likely—Mrs. Burnett has never slept at my house, nor has Burnett—I did not consider there was any harm going on—of course, I considered they were man and wife—I did not consider the boy was doing anything wrong; it never struck me in that kind of way—I don't know that I ever asked him how he came to be so intimate with them, or how he made their acquaintance—I don't recollect ever being very particular with the boy in the way of questioning him, or anything of that kind—I knew what Burnett was—I understood what he was some little time after the boy made acquaintance with him—it was on 7th or 8th September, I think, that the key was found in the door—my son, Henry, did not come up from Portsmouth the day before that; James Brown did—I had not seen Henry before that since he was up there with the girl—that was about three weeks or a month before, I am not certain—it was when I was at work that the key was said to have been lost—I was at work at that part of the mill that day—I was turned away the day after it was found—I have been asked questions by Mr. Hamilton about Burnett, and by Mr. Portal—I told Mr. Dusatoy that Burnett was a Venetian blind-maker, because I understood that he was that, from my son, Henry—at another time I told Mr. Portal, and the detectives, that he was a clerk, because he told me himself that he was a clerk—that was after I understood he was a Venetian blind-maker—I don't know what clerk he was—I did not understand what, merely a clerk generally—it was the last time I saw him at our house that he told me he was a clerk; in the early part of July—I know the Horse-shoes beer shop—I know Mrs. Collis and her husband very well—I remember a medical student attending me for my leg—Burnett did not come in while he was there; I am certain of that—I knew that Burnett had been in gaol—I understood that, some little time after my son made acquaintance with him; I heard that he was a convicted felon—I ate and drank with him, and had him at my house after that—I beard that his wife had been a convicted felon also—I had her at my house after knowing that, and allowed her to associate with my wife and daughters.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Had you heard anything at all against him for several years past, at the time you let him into your house? A. No.

Q. To come back to the 13th July—was there anything the next day, Monday, the 14th, or shortly afterwards, that particularly called your attention to whether your son had been to Laverstoke on that day? A. My young daughter came home and told us that she had heard in the mill that he had been seen at Overton, we made inquiry about it, and George Smith told my son, who was working at Overton, that he saw him; we then made further inquiry, and Mrs. Brown went to Whitchurch and inquired of Mrs. Collis—I am able to say, positively, that we did not see

him at all on that Sunday—he was not inside our house that day, or on the Monday.

SHENTON DUSATOY . I am a brother of Mr. Charles Dusatoy, one of the partners in the firm of Portal and Co.—I am foreman of the mills—I have been in the employment of Messrs. Portal for about fourteen years and three quarters—I should say this model of the mills correctly represents them, and the other appears to me to represent correctly the lane and Brewer's house—Mr. William Brewer, the brother of Richard Brewer, is the chief mould maker at the mills,—I believe William has been employed about ten years at the mills—Richard Brewer came, I believe, in 1866—it is the business of William Brewer to form the moulds for the paper on which the bank-notes are made—Richard Brewer's business was to do the wood-work; to make the frames and deckles, and occasionally to assist in the other parts, sewing on the packing wires, or any other work that might be required of him—there was a room on purpose for them, called the mould-making room—they did not work exactly in the same room; there were two rooms—Richard Brewer lived at Whitchurch when he first came to Lavenstoke—about Lady-day, 1860, he came to live at Laverstoke, in this cottage, in the lane—the mould office was originally in a cottage at the further end, called the sizing-house—it was afterwards shifted into these rooms at one end of the machine-room (pointing it out on the model)—that is what afterwards became the pack-room—those rooms used to be mould-rooms at the middle, or latter end, of 1860—the mould-rooms were then on the middle floor of the block of buildings where the clock is—the entrance to the mill is nearly opposite the lane, and the road running from Overton to Whitchurch and Freefolk—there are five cottages here, three are inhabited now, by persons connected with the works—formerly they were all five inhabited—besides attending to the moulds, in the mould office, Richard Brewer had to inspect the moulds in use, twice a day—moulds are used to mould the paper from the pulp, and they are also used in the second vat-house—there were two vats in each—those were the two that were commonly in use in 1861 and 1862—there was another vat-house which was occasionally used—it was Richard Brewer's duty to go twice a day to the vat-house to inspect the moulds, to see if anything required repair, to put them right, and to repair the deckles, if required—except for those purposes, he had no business in any other part of the mill—I think the new mould office was occupied at the latter end of 1860—the old mould room was then made into a pack-room—that is at the further end of the machine-room—it is partitioned off—there is a stage of the paper manufacture called water-leaf—I have seen the sheet of rupee paper produced—that is in what is called the water-leaf state, before it is sized—the next stage is sizing, and there is a stage when it is sized and not glazed—there is a quantity of water-leaf paper, and a quantity of sized-paper in the mill—down to August, 1862, the water-leaf paper was kept in one of the pack-rooms—there were two rooms—the dry paper was kept in the inner one, and the wet, in the other—in 1862, the water-leaf paper was kept in the inner pack-room, whether bank or rupee paper—the dry-sized paper was kept in the same room—there was occasionally some wet paper, both waterleaved and sized—the sized was kept in the outer room until it was parted the next day after sizing, then it was removed—the water-leaved packs were generally kept in the first vat-house, where it was made—if an accident happened, there was sometimes more or less note paper in a sited state in pack room—there might be four weeks of one vat's work—if those were

six day weeks there would be 60,000 notes in that week—a great many thousand notes were kept in this room—we ceased to use these pack rooms for keeping paper on 16th July, 1862—that was after the discovery that paper had been taken—there was a means of getting to these pack rooms from outside the mill, by the north door (pointing it out)—after going through that door you would have to go through two other doors in order to get to the inner pack room—between the end of June and the 11th and 12th of July, we had some sized bank note and rupee paper in store in that room—we were constantly making Bank of England paper (refering to the books)—in the week including 20th June we bad two vats, one on rupee paper, and one vat on Bank of England—during the week, including 7th July, we were making Bank of England plain, not fives or tens—the next week we made rupee paper, but there was no deficiency then—in the week ending 4th July, we were making Bank of England and rupee—we had three days work to make in that week, belonging to the former week, so that we made a week and a half—in the following week after 7th July, we were making Bank of England plain—we made more than a week's work of that sort of paper, so that we went into part of the next week to finish it—we made two vats of rupees, in the week ending 4th July—it generally takes about nine or ten days from the time the paper is made in the vats, until it is sized, sometimes more, sometimes less—this key produced by Webb is a master-key, which opens all of the doors, except where there are larger or different locks—it is such a key as I should look up with—it would open the north door, and both the other doors by which you would gain admission into the pack room—I heard that that key had been lost—I do not recollect it myself—I remember its being found—I cannot say the date—it was on the 6th, 7th, or 8th September, 1862, on a Monday—it was found in the door at the bottom of the stains, going up to the rag engine room—I had heard of its being lost three or four years before—William Brewer had the key of the mould office—I don't think that key would open the north door or the pack room doors—I don't think it would open any door, except that which it was intended for—Richard Brewer ought not to have had any key except the key of the mould office—after mill hours the doors were locked—the gates were not locked—they were fastened on the inside—the large gates were fastened together, and the wicket gates left open, until the carpenter went home, and then they were fastened up—it was his business to lock those gates—Richard Brewer has made application to me for my key after mill hours—I lent it to him on one occasion—I think it must have been at the latter end of 1861—that was the master-key that would open every door, except where there was a strange lock on it—he was not away above ten minutes or a quarter of an hour with that key—he brought it back to me again—he asked me after that to lend it him, but I believe I did not—I have several times gone with him, and opened the doors, and 1st him into the mould office, and I have seen him out again, and locked the door, and come away—once when he was in the mould office he asked my permission to remain there after the mill hours, and I said, "Mr. Brewer, if you remain, I shall remain with you," or, "You will compel me to remain with you"—I think that was either the latter end of July or August, 1862—he said, if I would not stop with him he would inquire of Mr. Charles Dusatoy, my brother—rupee paper is never sent out in an unsized state—Bank of England paper is never sent out sized and not glazed—during the time I have been at the mill, we have always had as occasional amount of deficiency of paper—the machinery will tear some, and the men are careless—in 1862 we discovered larger deficiences than could be accounted for in that way—it is, of course, expected that every sheet put

into the machine should come out—we found larger deficiencies than could be accounted for by carelessness or injury; that led to inquiry; and we ascertained what the deficiencies were—we always had deficiencies (looking at the things found at Brewer's house)—this piece of brass is intended for a knotter to extract knots from the pulp—it has slits in the bottom of it—the width of guage of those slits is the same as our knotters used at the mills—after the pulp has been made, it is passed through a knotter, with slits in it of the same guage as these—the effect of that is, to allow the fine pulp to pass through, and to keep back the knots—it goes inside this wooden box, and works up and down—the stuff goes through, and leaves the knots behind—there are openings at the bottom which we call rabbits, to allow the pulp to pass out—here is a wooden frame with brass bars, with holes in them—that is the foundation of a paper mould—in the state it now is, it would do for any sort of paper—it would make paper the size of a bank note, with a proper deckle fitted to it—a deckle is a frame that fits on the top of the mould, to form the edges of the sheets; it is afterwards taken off—in order to form a water mark it would require to be completed—this is merely the foundation—in 1862 the mill opened at 5 o'clock or half-past 5—I always open it—there is a night watchman; he comes off duty at half-past 5, when I open the mill—the women leave off at 4—the men are generally employed a little longer, sometimes till 5 or half-past—I am the last to lock up—I dose the mill when the men have left it, generally from a little after 5 to half-past 5.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Richard Brewer lived in one of Mr. Portal's houses, did he not? A. Yes—I do not know the rent he paid for it—I suppose it would be about 10l. a year—I know the house—it is not a very grand one—he is a married man, without a family servant—he has always appeared a respectable man to me—I always considered him so—I can say nothing else, but that he always appeared a respectable man to me—I call him a very clever man—he made a register for counting the paper made at the vats—that is not in use at present, it has been—I do not know of his making a tell tale for the purpose of showing when any doors were opened—his brother is also a very good mechanic—I consider them both men of very considerable ability—I cannot say that the machine produced from Brewer's house is one intended to do away with manual labour in making the paper for notes—it is in a very incomplete state—I suppose it is the same in every trade, improvements are constantly being made—I never heard of it being part of Richard Brewer's engagement that any improvements he made should be delivered over to the mill owners—I am not sure together he was hired under a written agreement; that does not belong to my province; Mr. Portal or Mr. Charles Dusatoy would know—a person who could manufacture a thing of this kind would have no difficulty in making a key—he would not require to send it up to London to be made by somebody else; he could do it perfectly well himself—I believe this key was found in one of the doors, the door at the bottom of the engine house stairs—I do not know that I ever saw the key before—I never had it in my possession—I knew of a key being missed three or four years before—Mr. Charles Dusatoy had the charge of that key—Brown would not have access to it at all—I heard of that key having been missed—I know that Richard Brewer made a' key for the register that he made—old Brown has never made any keys by my directions, to my knowledge, certainly never by my orders—Brown would not have access to the keys, to none of them, except the one on treated to him to lock up the shop with.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER Q. Do you remember some time in the year 1861, some rupee or rank paper being found concealed near one of the machines at the mill? A. No—sheets have occasionally gone down in the work, and we have picked them up again—I never heard of paper in a perfect state being concealed in 1861—I never heard a word about it.

CHARLES DUSATOY . I am a partner in the firm—Richard Brewer was first engaged at the mills, I think, on 5th June, 1856—it was arranged that the firm were to have the benefit of any improvement made by William Brewer; I cannot say as to Richard Brewer, it might include both—William is the patentee—I lost a key in January, 1858—I have stated that this key was the one that was lost, and I believe it was—it is what is called a masterkey, I believe it was my first master-key—it would open all the doors—on. 8th September, 1862, it was found in the engine room door—I can tell by reference to my books when certain paper was made—I have been forty-two years at the mill—this note is on paper made at our mill—it is sized, but has never been glazed by us—there is a certain degree of smoothness on it, but I am positive it has never gone through our glazing process—our paper is always issued in a glazed state; we never send out a sheet without.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What is there that tells you that that is not a genuine note? A. I have never said it was not a genuine note—it is genuine—the paper was made at our mills, from our moulds—I have nothing to do with the engraving—I know nothing of the Bank of England work—I should not look at the printing of any note offered to me; I should look at the paper; I should know whether it was a genuine note by that, and immediately on seeing the paper, I should assume this to be a genuine note—this is what I call a master-key—I am not a judge of whether it is a difficult key to be imitated; I never made a key—I lost it out of my pocket—Brown had only one key delivered to him, not the same kind as this—this key would unlock his shop door—his key would not unlock any other portion of the premises that I know of; it was never intended to do so; I have not taken the trouble to ascertain whether it would or not—I am sure it would not unlock all the other doors—I have been told since this investigation that his key would unlock one door, where the paper was to be got, but I never saw it—it was not in my province at that time—I am told it would unlock the north door—that is an outside door—it leads into the mill—I communicated with Richard Brewer, and also with his brother, when the key was found, not when it was lost, I cannot remember that I did; I do not remember whether I did or not—old Brown was not dismissed immediately it was found; he was dismissed the next day—an investigation took place on finding the key, and there was a little talk—I had something to say about it—I wrote to Mr. Portal, and requested him to come next morning, and investigate the matter—it was investigated, and the result was that old Brown was turned away—the rent of the house in which Brewer lived was 10l. a year.

MR. BOVILL. Q. Supposing anybody to enter at the north door, would there be other doors to open before getting into the pack-room, where the sized paper was? A Yes; two doors—I never knew or heard that Brown's key would open either of those doors, but I have heard that it was broken in trying to open one—at the time Brown was discharged I did not suspect Richard Brewer—it was the talk generally in the mill that caused us to dismiss Brown—I believe all of us, and I among the rest, were quite in ignorance of the means of going on with the inquiry—having heard that Henry Brown was suspected, I suppose they concluded he might have sent the

key to his father, and his father endeavoured to throw it on some one else; that was the general impression, and I fell in with it, and he was dismissed in consequences—it was only from the connection of father and son, that was all—there was no fort proved against the father, except his connection with his son, who was suspected—I have here the abstract book which will enable me to tell about when the paper was made—we began making 5l. bank paper the week ending 3d. March, 1860, and the last paper made with that mould previous to he toward coming out was in the week ending 12th May, 1862, so—that the paper must have been made between March, 1860, and May, 1862.

WILLIAM PORTAL . I am the chief proprietor of these mills, and the head of the firm—I was a party to the investigation respecting the key—we ultimately determined to dismiss old Brown.

ARTHUR HUTCHENS . I am an engineer at Laverstoke Mills—during the summer of 1862, I have seen Richard Brewer in the mill in the work time, from 9 in the morning till 4—I have also seen him in the evening part, after the mill has been closed; sometimes once, sometimes twice, In the run of an evening, as late as 6, 7, half-past 7, 8, and half-past 8, at different times.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Where have you seen him? A. Passing through the outer yard into the inner yard—only the outer yard gate was then open—I have seen him go into the inner one—I dare say he might have seen me—I was working against my wood house—there were other persons about in the yard at the same time—he has gone in quite openly—I have not seen other persons go in—there is a grindstone by the carpenter's shop—he could not get to that without going into that inner yard—I don't know that he had business at that grindstone at that time—it was not a matter that struck me as at all odd at the time—I never mentioned it—in summer the hands all leave work at 5—old Brown used to remain till half-past 5, I believe—he remained later than the paper-makers—they leave at 5 in the summer; and 4 in the winter—I have not seen Henry Brown there since he left the mills—I have seen him when he was at work there—he was at work there a long time—he remained after the other hands were gone—he went home with Jus father at half-past 5—I did not break my key on one occasion—I did not do so in June, 1862, and take it to Brewer to get mended; I am sure of that.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Did you ever see Henry Brown in or about the mill after he ceased to be employed there in the middle of 1861? A. No; never—at the time I saw Brewer go into the mill after working hours, no suspicion was entertained that any paper had ever been stolen—there was nothing particular to fix my attention in seeing him go in.

HANNAH HUTCHENS . I am the wife of Arthur Hutchens—during the year 1862, I have seen Richard Brewer pass through the mill yard in the evening as late as 6, half-past 6, half-past 7, and half-past 8—that was in the spring, and in the beginning of the summer of 1862—I have seen him go through the small door in the big gates—he came into the yard the same way we all go through—I have seen him come out and close the small door in the big gates—I have seen him lock it and unlock it.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I think you were not examined before the Magistrate? A. No—I can't tell how often I have seen Brewer lock the gate—in the spring of 1862 was the first time—I never noticed him before—I can't say how late in the spring of 1862; I have seen him in April and May—I can't say how often I have seen him lock

the door—I never took any particular notice—I have seen him do so several times; that is all I can say.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. How often should you say altogether you have seen him go into the premises after business hours? A. I can't tell; more than two or three times; several times.

JOHN BROWN . I am the boilerman at the mills of Mr. Portal—the boiler-house is where the high shaft is on this model—that is near the machine-room—there is a door into the boiler-house from the mill yard, but no door leading into the machine-room—there is a door and a window at the side which looks into the yard—a person going from the mould office to the north door would past in front of that window and door—my hours of work were rather later than those of the other persons in the mill—on ordinary week days I stayed till 5 o'clock, and on Saturdays till 4—I had to clean the boilers when the work was over—there were no other persons at the mill whose duty would keep him there after 2 o'clock on Saturday besides the carpenters—after I had done cleaning my boilers, it was my habit to wash at the corner of the boiler-house, where there is a cistern heated by a chimney passing through—from that place I can see through the window of the boiler-house anybody crossing the yard—I have seen Richard Brewer in the yard on Saturday afternoon after the other workmen have gone; that has been in 1861 and 1862—I have seen him there after mill hours, in the spring of 1682, up to as late as July—I have not seen him doing anything, no more than pass the yard—he went in the direction for the water-closet from the mould office—he has come past the window of the boiler-house, and gone in the direction of the water-closet—that is close to the north door, on the same side—I have sometimes seen him come back, and sometimes I have not—sometimes I have remained a quarter of an hour alter I have seen him pass, sometimes ten minutes, and sometimes five minutes—it has only been on Saturdays—it was not always after mill hours—it happened often enough to make me notice it—when he passed in that way be could not have seen me if the boiler-house door was shut; he could if it was open, he could look in—I have known him glance that way towards the window—I have not known him look in—I have a key for the boiler-house.

Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. He knew quite well that you were stationed there, did he not? A. Yes—I don't know whether he knew that I must see him if he passed—we were not acquaintances; he spoke to me sometimes—he knew what my duties were, and where I was stationed to perform them—he could see the window through which I could see him—sometimes I had left before he came back—I can't say that I always saw him come back when I remained there; perhaps I may have been at the other side of the boiler-house, and then I should not have seen him—sometimes I was there—sometimes I saw him come back, and sometimes not—I did not fail to see him come back when I was there—I can't say whether he brought tools with him; I did not notice—the grindstone did not lay that way—it is in the carpenter's yard—the blacksmith shop is about five rods from the boiler-house; he would pass my window to go there—I can't tell whether be bad tools with him on every occasion—I can't say that he had, and I can't say that he had not—the engineers sometimes work later than 4 on the Saturday—Brewer has sometimes come to me for a light—I can't say how often; perhaps once a week—that has been when he was working in the blacksmith's shop—he occasionally worked there—Soper's men have not been there very late on a Saturday afternoon—no

men have been there late on a Saturday afternoon except Brown the carpenter—he has been as late as half-past 5 and 6 on a Saturday—I have seen his son, Henry Brown, there late also; I think the same time that his father was.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Do yon know any business that Richard Brewer could have had within these gates after basinets hours, in the way of his duty? A. I don't know that he had any—if he wanted to go to the water-closet, or the blacksmith's shop, he was obliged to go this way—if he wanted to go to the north door, he must pass through the boiler-house, and through these gates—George Brown's duty kept him there as late as 5 or 6 on Saturday.

MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. From the direction in which Brewer seemed to be going when you saw him pass, did he appear to be going towards the water-closet, or the blacksmith's shop, or towards the north door? A. Sometimes towards the blacksmith's shop, sometimes towards the north door, and sometimes towards the water-closet (referring to the model)—this is the north door.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Did he always go in the same direction? A. After he passed the window I could not see which way he went—if he wished to go in at the north door, I should not hare been able to see that he went there—if he went towards the water-closet, he could cross over and go in at the north door.

COURT. Q. Could you see enough of the direction in which he was going at the time he passed you to know whether he was tending to the right or left? A. Yes; to the best of my knowledge he was going towards the water-closet; that is to the left—my impression was that he was always going to the left, to the water-closet.

MR. SERJEANT BALLALNTINE to MR. SHENTON DUSATOY. Q. Did you know, as a matter of fact, that Brewer was in the habit of going to the grindstone after hours? A. I did.

SIR FITZROY KELLY . Q. Where is that grindstone? A. Down in the corner, against the carpenter's shop—in order to get there he would have to go in at the first gate, and through the second gate—whether he would have occasion to go there after the carpenter had left, would depend upon his own work at home—I suppose he had George Brown's key then—he had no key of his own—he would have to borrow Brown's key, or get in by some other means—if it was after half-past 5, and George Brown had done work, the gate, and the little door in the gate, would be both locked.

COURT. Q. You say you know he was there; how do you know it? A. Because he had asked liberty of me to go down to grind tools—I should say that was in the early part of 1862, when he had got work to do at home—he appeared to be turning took for the purpose of turning metal.

FRANCES MURRELL . I am the wife of George Murrell, a finisher, at the mill—I know Richard Brewer—in the spring and summer of 1862, I have seen him go through the gates—I can't say exactly the time—it might be from 6 to 8, or from 7 to 8r and at different times—I hare not noticed the time he was there—it might be a quarter of an hour—I might have seen him there as late as half-past 8, but I did not observe at all, not thinking anything about it—I hare not seen him often; I can't say how often—it might be half-a-dozen times, or a dozen; I don't know.

THOMAS LEAVER . I found the things produced yesterday to Richard Brewer's house, in one of the work rooms.

The prisoner Richard Brewer received an excellent character from nine witnesses.

BUNCHER— GUILTY .— Twenty-five Years' Penal Servitude.

GRIFFITHS—GUILTY.— Penal Servitude for Life.


BURNETT—GUILTY.— Twenty Years' Penal Servitude.

There were nine other indictments against Brewer for like offences, charged in different forms, upon which no evidence was offered.

Reference Number: t18630105-235

235. ROBERT CUMMINGS (60) , Feloniously forging and uttering a note, purporting to be a 5l. Bank of England note, with intent to defraud.

SIR FITZROY KELLY , Q.C., MR. BOVILL, Q.C., MR. MATTHEWS, and MR. GIFFARD, conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY BROWN . I formerly worked in the Laverstoke Mills as carpenter, assisting my father—they manufacture the paper for bank notes at that mill—that paper has on it "Bank of England" in waved lines—some of the paper is plain, without any denomination of the note, as "10," or "20," and is called plain paper, and some has the denomination on it—before August, 1862, I had in my possession a quantity of Bank of England paper, not quite finished; it was sized, but not glazed—I know Burnett—I gave him some of all sorts, fives, tens, and plain.

Cross-examined by MR. SMITH. Q. You are, on your own confession, I believe, a thief? A. I acknowledge that I stole great quantities of Bank paper.

JOHN LITCHFIELD . I am foreman at the Laverstoke Mills, at which the bank note paper is made—prior to August, 1862, considerable quantities of bank note paper was missing from the mills—I have examined these note (produced)—they are printed on paper manufactured at the mills, but it is in an unfinished state; it is sized, but not glazed—paper is never issued to the Bank of England till it is completely finished, and in its glazed state.

WILLIAM AUBREY . I have been in business as a French polisher—I know Burnett, otherwise Bill Day—I first became acquainted with him eight years ago, but lost sight of him till fourteen months ago, when I met him in the New-cut, I again lost sight of him till August last, when I saw him one Sunday morning, and he invited me to go round and have a cup of tea with him—I afterwards saw in his possession two 5l. Bank of England notes joined together, not printed, but there was "Five" on it, and "Bank of England" in the wavy mark in the paper—in consequence of what he said to me I introduced him to the prisoner—we went over on Monday morning; and I left him at the Feathers, in Orchard-street, and went to the White Horse, in pursuit of Cummings—I gave him the piece of paper which I had previously received from Burnett, and asked him if he knew any one who could print it—he said, "Yes, by going down to Birmingham; and it was arranged that I and Cummings should go down to Birmingham with the paper on Saturday morning by the cheap train—there was one sheet joined together, it was two notes—I met Burnett on the Saturday morning in Broadwall, and we proceeded over Waterloo-bridge to where we had previously arranged to meet Cummings at the corner of Wellington-street, Strand—we met him there, and proceeded to Euston-square station—we went into a public house there, and partook of some bread and butter and coffee—I then went and ascertained that the train, fortunately for me, did not start till the evening—we all then walked back to Wellington-street, where we left Cummings, and Burnett, and I walked over Waterloo-bridge

again—it was arranged that I should see Burnett to the corner of Short-street, and we went into the public house on the same side as the pit entrance to the Lyceum Theatre—I gave Cummings a roll of paper with 15s., but I bad received a sovereign from Burnett—I do not know what sort of paper it was, but I was given to understand it was bank paper—I gave it to Cummings to take down to be printed, but I never mentioned anything about bank paper at all; he knew what it was given to him for—he knew that it was given to him to take down to get printed—Burnett said that he was to take it down to be printed—I am not going to say that be said so to Cummings, because I do not know whether he did or not—I had given him the roll and 15s., and Burnett told him if he wanted any more, to send up to Angel-place, and give him a paper with the name of Jackson upon it—he was to write up to Jackson, 2, Angel-place, Blackfriars-road—that was where Burnett lived then.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you known the prisoner long? A. I first became acquainted with him about seven years ago—when I went to the White Horse, in Orchard-street, Cummings was not standing in the bar, he he was lying on a sack in the tap-room, partly asleep and partly awake, but I awoke him up, and showed him the paper—I had only been in the house and drank with him before; I never had the slightest connection with him in my life—I have asked him to drink if he was in the house, he was no pot companion—he took the paper in his hand and held it up—I will not be certain whether he had his spectacles on—I am not such a fool as to find him asleep with his spectacles on—immediately I awoke him I gave the paper into his hand—he held it up, looked at it, and could tell what it was, of course—he had spectacles on just now; I do not know that he is in the habit of wearing them—I have seen him with them once or twice—when he had looked at the paper, if I am not mistaken, he gave it to me back again, and I gave it to Burnett in the public-house—the piece of paper was in Cummings's possession three or four minutes, just while he looked at it—I gave him the roll of paper, in the public-house, on the evening we were to have started down to Birmingham—I had not the slightest idea it was bank paper—I did not see it, but I know it, because it is not fessible at all that he would pay the man's expenses down to Birmingham if it was not—the parcel was in a round roll, there was a piece of common white paper outside, but no string round it; it was screwed up—I do not know a man named Jackson—I know Burnett.

MR. BOVILL. Q. Do you know anybody who passed under the name of Jackson? A. Yes; Burnett, alias Day—I never knew him by the name of Burnett, till four months ago, when he said, "If you come to my place, ask for Mr. Burnett"—I always knew him by the name of Day.

ELLEN MILLS . I have known the prisoner by the name of Burnett some years, and lived with him as his wife—he has gone by the names of Day and Jackson—I knew Henry Brown while he was working at Laverstoke Paper Mills; I afterwards saw him in London—I was living in London last July, and about that time Brown came to London with some bank note paper—I have seen paper of that Sort in Burnett's possession—I remember William Aubrey coming to Burnett's house in July, I think—I was not present at a conversation between him and Burnett, but I have heard him talking to him on several occasions—the prisoner came to my house after Burnett had gone to Birmingham, which was, I think, a Wednesday, and he returned on the Saturday—he told me where he had been, and after that Cummings came to ask for a man named Johnson, by which I understood Burnett—I

said that he had left, but he was in bed—I did that in consequence of instructions I had received from Burnett—I saw Cummings after that in the street, and he asked if I had seen Johnson—I said that I had not—I did not see him again.

Cross-examined. Q. You have been convicted of felony, I believe, have you not? A. No; it was for buying things found in my place—I was sentenced to a term of imprisonment—I knew very well who Cummings meant by Johnson—it was Johnson, and not Jackson; I am certain of that—it might have been Jackson, but I believe it was Johnson—it was Johnson that was asked for, to the best of my belief.

HENRT WEBB . I am a detective in the City police—on 27th November I went to the premises of James Griffiths at Birmingham, and found these plates (produced)—there were also on the premises a number of forged notes.

WILLIAM MANTON . I am one of the Birmingham detective police—I produce some plates I found on Griffith's premises on 27th October—they are numbered and dated signature plates for bank notes.

GEORGE PHILIP TANDY . I am one of the Birmingham detective police—I went to Griffith's premises on 27th October, and at a place in his room, pointed out by him, I found some number and date, and signature plates, for bank notes—there were forged bank notes about the place, and a printing press and ink—Griffiths was in his sleeves, as if he had just been working.

FREDERICK MURFELL . I am an inspector of bank notes to the Bank of England, and have been so nearly twenty-five years—on 16th August, 1862, I first noticed some forged notes, on genuine Bank of England paper, come in; I produce thirty-two "fives" and four "tens"—I have compared then with the plates found at Griffiths's—they were all printed from Griffiths's plates—they are not printed on paper in the finished state in which it comes into the Bank of England, it is not glazed—we never have any note paper in the Bank of England, except paper which has been glazed, never any in this state—all the genuine notes are printed in the Bank, and all these are printed from Griffiths's plates—no forged note has ever come in on paper made at the mills, except that printed from Griffiths's plates.

CAROLINE FINCH . I live at the Bull's Head, Moon-street, Birmingham—my uncle keep it—I know the prisoner—he came there about the beginning of August, I think, but I cannot be positive—it was late on a Saturday evening—I had not known him before—he took a bed there, and remained about nine days, till the Monday week following, I believe—he went in and out a good deal—on the Thursday following, a person named Burnett came and asked if we had an old man staying there named Cummings—I am not quite sure whether Cummings was at home at the time, but Burnett saw him directly afterwards—I saw them together in the course of that afternoon—Burnett stayed till the Friday; I am not sure whether he stayed any longer—I saw him both on the Thursday and Friday with Cummings—they went out together on the Friday morning—I do not remember seeing them after the Friday—I do not know what business they had together.

SARAH HAZELL . I am the wife of Joseph Hazell, who keeps a lodging-house, at 8, Bull-street, Birmingham—the prisoner came there on a Monday, and again on the Friday, accompanied by a person named Burnett—I got them some tea, and they went up stairs into the bedroom, where a quarrel took place between them, after which Burnett west away and Cummings remained—I ran up stairs when I heard something fall to the ground, and

Burnett was getting up from the floor—he said, "He has been trying to strangle me, and use a knife," but I Saw no knife—the next day I saw Cummings drive up, in a cab, to the Whittington and Cat public-house opposite—Burnett followed, in another cab, to the Whittington and Cat; he got out by the door and came across to me.

Cross-examined. Q. When this quarrel took place, was Cummings tipsy? A. Yes.

WILLIAM DARBY . I am a cab-driver at Birmingham—I know Burnett and Cummings by sight—I was standing for hire by the palings in Burch Fields last August—they took ray cab together, and I drove them to Birmingham, which was about two miles, as near as possible—I stopped at a public-house on the road, where they got tipsy; they were pretty well so before they went—I beard no particular conversation between them, only about drinking, and they quarrelled now and then who should pay, but Cummings had no money—neither was trying to get money from the other—I drove them to the station, but they were too late for the train—I then drove them to the Whittington and Cat—Burnett took another cab and followed—Cummings left me and went to a public-house close by, and Burnett got out of his cab and followed Cummings into the same house.

This being the case for the prosecution, THE COURT intimated that there was no confirmation of the accomplices. SIR F. KELLY contended that there was strong confirmation to go to the Jury, and called the attention of the Court to the case of Beg. v. Senior. THE COURT considered that there was no actual corroboration of the evidence of the accomplices; the rule had been laid down so long that it had the sanction of law, that even if the Jury believed the accomplices, they ought not to act upon their evidence unless they were corroborated; he therefore directed a verdict of


There were nine other indictments against the prisoner, upon which no evidence was offered.

Reference Number: t18630105-236

236. HENRY WILLIAMS (49) , Feloniously engraving part of a promissory note, purporting to be a note of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England; to which he


He received a good character.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

THIRD COURT, Thursday, January 8th, 1863.


Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18630105-237

237. ALBERT COX (19) and JOHN BLACKIN (22) , Robbery with violence upon Robert Elliott, and stealing a hat from his person.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

ARTHUR ROWSELL . I am a commercial traveller, and reside at Albion-place, Clerkenwell—on Saturday, 27th December, I was out with the prosecutor in a four-wheel chaise, which broke down at Tottenham-cross, and we could not safely go any further in it—the prisoner Cox came to me in the public-house into which we went, and offered to take the chaise to the coachbuilder's for 4s., which I declined to give him, and sent it there by another person—Cox offered to drive me to Shoreditch for 4s.—no one was with him then—he went away, and returned with Blackin and another man—I had at first engaged Cox to take my chaise to the coach-builder's—I went outside, and in consequence of something the policeman said I declined to have anything

to do with him—he abused me a great deal, and said he had brought a horse and cart, and would make me pay the 4s.—I said, "Well, under the circumstances, you may take me and my friend to Shoreditch; for 4s."—he brought out the horse and cart, and I immediately paid him—Black in and the other man were then with him—the prosecutor and I got into the cart—Cox was driving, and Blackin and the other man were in the cart with him—Cox then drove us to the Fountain Inn, Upper Clapton—I went to the parlour with my friend—I was in there two or three minutes, and when I came out my friend and the others were gone, cart and all—it was about 6 or 7 o'clock in the evening.

Cox. You pulled out some money from your pocket, and a gentleman took a half-crown, a shilling, and sixpence, from amongst it, and said, "Shall I pay him the money?"Witness. That is not true; I paid you the 4s.

ROBERT ELLIOTT . I live at Islington—I was with the last witness when the chaise broke down at Tottenham-cross—Cox drove us to the Fountain, and I went in there, and shortly after that I missed my friend—I was then inside the house—I went outside and looked—the prisoners And the cart were still outside then, and a third man—I then proceeded alone on my way towards Hackney Church—when I had got a little distance the two prisoners ran after me; the other man remained a short distance behind—Cox took hold of my arm, and forcibly detained me; they made use of very abusive language—Cox said, "Come back and ride, we will take you where you want to go"—I said I wanted to have nothing to do with them, as I was quite satisfied they were blackguards—I then called the aid of a police-constable, 46 N, and said, "Protect me against these men"—the policeman said, "Have you any claim against this gentleman?"—I think he used the words "this gentleman"—Cox said, "No"—as near as I can tell, the constable said, "Now, my lads, you had better go back the other way, and not interfere with the gentleman; he does not want anything to say to you"—he then said to me, "If you walk on, sir, I will see they don't follow you"—I walked on—they had not moved, but were still in the same place—when I had got some distance the same men drove up in a cart, and stopped behind me—they all three got out of the cart, and hustled against me, and pushed me about—I received a blow on the back of the head; from whom I do not know—it rendered me insensible, and I fell—when I next became conscious I was being forcibly held down in the cart, and was being driven rapidly down a lane—I cannot say whether it was one of the prisoners or the third man that held me; it was very dark—they stripped off my top coat, my body coat, waistcoat, and hat—I was conscious then—they took a ring off my finger, and about 15s. in money from my trousers' pocket, and some other trifling articles—they had great difficulty in getting the ring off, and one of the prisoners said, "Oh, cut the finger off"—one of them, Blackin I think, tried to take my boots off—I kicked him, and after that I had a severe struggle, and threw myself over the back of the cart, and injured myself very much, as we were going rather quick, though not very—I called out "Police," and ran after the cart—policeman K 32 came up, and joined in the pursuit—he ran After the cart, and stopped the horse—Cox was then wearing my overcoat and hat—he took the coat off and threw it in the road, and threw the hat at me—the constable then took the two prisoners in custody—the third man ran away, and escaped—this hat and waistcoat (produced) are mine.

Cox. He was so tipsy he could not see where he was going. Witness. I was not tipsy; if I had been they would have got away with my property.

Blackin. Q. Did not you say yon would give me 2s. or 3s. if I went with you? A. No—I do not know anything about the horse—it was not my horse.

THOMAS ARNOLD (Police-sergeant, K 32) About half-past 8 on this evening I was on duty in Wick-lane—I heard a cry of "Police, and ran to the spot, and met the prosecutor—I ran with him, and overtook the cart in which were the two prisoners, and a third man was running by the side endeavouring to get into the cart—when I stopped the cart, one of the prisoners, I believe Blackin, threw an overcoat into the road—Cox said, "Give him his b—y coat"—Cox took off the hat which he had outside his wide-awake, and threw it at the prosecutor—I took them to the station—I found this waist-coat at the bottom of the cart.

Cox. Q. Did I pull up when you were after us? A. No; I had to stop the horse's head—I was culling out after them to stop.

THOMAS HOWES (Police-sergeant, N 46). About half-past 7 on this evening, I was on duty in Lower Clapton, and heard a cry of "Police"—I ran to the spot, and saw Cox holding the prosecutor by the arm—he was trying to get him to go back and ride with him; he said he promised to take him to Shoreditch, and not to leave him halfway at the Fountain—the prosecutor would not go, and asked me to protect him from these men—he said, "I wish to get away from them;" I said, "Very well, you can get away, and if you go away they won't follow you now"—he went on his way, and they turned back—I told them they must go away from him—that was about 200 yards from the public-house—I saw Cox back to the public-house, and when I got there I saw the two other men with him for the first time—I stood about there for more than five minutes, and saw that they appeared to be settled, and with no intention of following him—I went about fifty yards further on, and presently I saw the cart going on with the three men—they were all dressed something like they are now—they followed in the direction which the prosecutor had taken, and I took a short cut down Clarence-road towards Hackney, and thought I should arrive there in time, but I saw no more of them till at the police-court.

Cox's Defence. The prosecutor's friend hired me to fetch a hone and cart.

I ran to Stamford-hill-gate as fast as I could go, and got them out of the stable; and when I came back he bad hired another man to take his trap, and gave him the 4s. I said, "You have hired some one else;" he said, "Yes, you won't have anything to do with it now, you may take your horse and cart back again." He went into the parlour of the public-house, and the landlord said he would not draw him any thing; he said to roe, "That man will have to pay you 4s. for going for the horse and cart." I went into the parlour, and asked him if he would give me the 4s.; he said he was not going to give any 4s. I said, "You will have to pay the 4s" I did not abuse him; I spoke very civilly. After a great deal of persuasion, a gentleman said, "You had better pay him;" and at last he pulled out about 11s. in his hand, and the gentleman gave me a half-crown, a shilling and a sixpence, from it, and said, "Now Cox, you see about getting home and out of the way, away from him." The prosecutor was very tipsy. On going outride he said, "I have paid you the 4s.; you will have to take me part of the way home, down to the Fountain at Clapton." I drove him there, and we all had some beer there, which I paid for. The prosecutor came out of the bar and ran off, and Rowsell came into the parlour. I asked him where the other one was gone; he said, "Oh, he is outside." I went out, and asked him if he was not going to ride home; he said, "No," The policeman came

up, and asked if I had been insulting him, and he said, "No." He then shook hands, said "Good night," and walked on. Rowsell afterwards came out, and said, "Where is the gentleman?" I mid, "I do not know." I got up in the cart, drove on, and overtook him; I asked him if he would like to ride; he got up in the cart himself, and said, yes. he would. He sat on the other side of Blackin, who was in the cart. I drove the horse as properly as I could. Blackin was intoxicated, the same as the prosecutor. The prosecutor said, "You drive me to Wick-lane;" and when going along Wick-lane, he pulled off his things in such a way and stared at me, that I thought he was mad, and then he pitched out of the cart; he and Blackin both went out of the cart together. The prosecutor hallooed "Police;" the policeman came up and said, "You stop." I had pulled the reins up very quickly. I stopped, got down, and told the policeman what he had done. This constable took us all to the station; the other policeman held the prosecutor, as he was so very much intoxicated. On getting there, he locked him up till Sunday, because he was not capable of taking care of himself; and they locked us up as well. I am as innocent as any baby.

Blackin's Defence. I was going towards Tottenham, and saw the accident; the prosecutor asked me to lend him a horse; he said he would give me a shilling when he got to Old Ford.

COURT to THOMAS ARNOLD. Q. When you overtook the cart, and stopped it, did Elliott make any charge against these men? A. Yes; of robbing him of his hat, coat, and waistcoat—nothing was said about a ring at that time—one of the men said, "Rob you! why, you have got it now; there's your coat"—that was after it had been thrown out of the cart—I did not hear anything at all like what Cox has been relating—Cox did not say anything about the man's having taken the things off himself—they were taken in custody on the charge of robbery—the prosecutor had been drinking very freely, but was able to give a very clear account of the matter—he was assisted to the station-house by a constable, in consequence of his complaining of a pain in his side and back—I searched the prisoners at the station, but did not find any ring on either of them.

JURY. Q. Was the prosecutor locked up? A. He was; I charged him myself with being drunk and incapable, to prevent his giving any further trouble—I had him detained, because I did not think it safe for him to go away in the state he was in.

GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months each.

Reference Number: t18630105-238

238. ALEXANDER REEVES (38), and JAMES HINES (42), Robbery on William Hughes, and stealing I watch-chain, and 1l. in money, his property.

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HUGHES . I am a fishmonger, and live at St. Albans—I was in London on the evening of 17th December, about 8 o'clock—I met the prisoners and another person in the Haymarket—they asked me to go to their apartments, 23, Foley-street, I think, to take some supper—I went with them to the house, and bought some supper on the road—I asked Reeves who the other one was; and he said it was a friend of his, whom he had known some years—then he asked me to take off my coat—I did so, and Hines hung it up behind the door—they asked me to take off my boots, but I declined—the third man, Mr. Hines's friend, asked me to take a pinch of snuff out of a box; and then he asked me to put my hand and feel a tumour which he had in the side of his left cheek—then he said, "Smell this," and put a white handkerchief to my nose; and I do not recollect anything

after that—when I became conscious, I was in the same place—they were all three there, but the third man rushed out of the room—I said, "I am robbed, Mr. Hines, of my watch, and my two chains"—my trousers were unbuttoned, and I said, "My money is all taken from my pocket"—I said, "Where is my coat that was behind the door? that is gone too"—Reeves said, "I have not got it; but we will go round to the public-houses, and see if we can find the man"—I said, "Stop, I shall go down stairs first;" and I went to the street-door—there was a cab in front of the house, and I asked the cabman to go for a policeman—I had left the two prisoners up stairs—I kept hold of the street-door, for I thought if I left it I should not be able to find the house again—I have not seen any of my things since, nor the third man—this chain (produced,) which the policeman found in the room, is the one that was unscrewed off my watch.

COURT. Q. Who was it that said be knew the third man, when you first met him? A. Reeves—he said it was his son.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH (for Reeves). Q. Do you carry on your business as a fishmonger at St. Albans? A. Yes; I have a shop there, and had when I met these men, in December—I have not been in business there very long—I came up that evening by train—I had been up from St. Albans twice in that month—I have a house there—I had been in London about a month or six weeks before I went to St. Albans—it was about three weeks before 17th December that I set up in business as a fishmonger there; about the end of November—I had not been living in London during the former part of the year—I had been at my home, Poole, in Dorsetshire—I left Poole in August, and then I stayed at a place called Bentley, about thirty or forty miles from London—I was not in the fishmonger line there I and my wife were staying with Mr. Spiers, a land surveyor—I went hopping for him, and bad a guinea a week from him—I was picking hops, and seeing the men measure them, and take them to the house where they were to be dried—I got a guinea a week for that, and sometimes 26s.—I was in that employment close about six weeks—I took my wife and child there—I did not come straight to London—I stayed in Bentley a few weeks after that, in lodgings, and then walked, with my wife and child, to London, where I arrived in November, or the latter part of October—I was not poor when I walked to London—I went to lodgings in London—it was not from poverty that we walked that distance, because my sister's husband sent me 20l. when I first came to London; about two months before Christmas—at Poole I used to go out with my brother, sometimes in his little boats, fishing, and sometimes I used to drive a cart into the country with the fish, as a fishmonger—I had not met Reeves, in London, as long as two months before 17th December—I had seen him once when I first came to London—I met him in the street—I know St. George's barracks, and the George Inn there—I went into the George Inn, and was robbed of all my money, and my gold pin, in that house—I did not see Beeves in there, but I saw him against the door—I was examined before the Magistrate, about this matter, on two occasions, but never said anything about having been robbed two months before—I do not accuse Reeves of that—I was robbed in that house of my gold pin and all my money, but the prisoners did not do that—I never represented myself to Reeves, at St. George's barracks, as being in very great distress, nor did he pay for any food for me there—I never in my life bad anything to eat and drink there at his expense—I had nothing at all with him in my life, except at his own house—I had a glass of ale the first time I went into the George, but nothing to eat—I had one half-pint of ale,

and Reeves had one—he stood at the door and took his glass—he said, "It's not much use going to that house, as it is a bad house, a low house"—it was in the evening that I met him there at the door; not in the day—I had plenty of money at the time—I paid for the glass of ale that Reeves had, as well as for the one I had; and at another house he asked me to go to his room, in London-street, and I paid for some more on that very night—that was the first time I ever saw him—I never saw him before that in my life—I only saw him once before the 17th—I showed him my pin—I had a gold bracelet in my possession the first time I saw him; not on the 17th—I suppose I had had it about a month—I never showed that to Reeves—I told him I had it—I told him that I had been so reduced in circumstances, that I had been obliged to pledge the only valuable thing I had, namely, a bracelet, and that I had been robbed so—that was on the Sunday; the day after I met him at the George—the first time I met him was a Saturday, and I went to his house that night—the 17th was the next time I met him—I did meet him on the Sunday; be took me to his house on the Saturday night, and I stopped there till the Sunday—my wife and child were at that time quite Out of their minds about where I was—Reeves begged me to stay—he said, "Now, do stay, it is so cold"—I said, "My wife will be uneasy about me"—he said, "Oh! do stay"—I said, "Who is that person with you?" and be said, "Oh! that is Hines"—Hines was with him them—I did not know the way back to my lodging—I lived at Mrs. Scovens', a greengrocer's, near Drury-lane—I used to be steward to Captain Taylor, and I used to go down to see him at the Haymarket—the St. George's barracks are in Castle-street, at the bottom of St. Martin's-lane—Reeves took me to London-street, which is quite a different direction—it was very dark, and he begged me to stop—he said, "I will make you some nice strong tea if you will stop"—it was about 7 o'clock in the evening when I met him; it was dark—I stayed about five or ten minutes at the public-house before I went with him, and then we stayed on the road and had two half-pints of beer—I told the Magistrate I had known Reeves once before; they never asked me whether I stayed at his house or not—they only asked if I knew the prisoner, and I said, "Once before"—I showed Reeves the duplicate for the bracelet, and be wrote a letter for me on the Sunday morning, just before I left his house—I told him that I had pawned the bracelet; that I had been robbed of my pin and money at that house, and had been so reduced through it, I had been obliged to pawn several articles—it was in consequence of the robbery and loss of money that I pawned the bracelet—I pawned it about three weeks before I saw Reeves, and I had the ticket in my possession—I pledged it before I was robbed—I pledged it because I was going to take a house in London, but then I was robbed, and I said I had to pledge more things because I had been robbed—I did not carry all the money about with me that my sister gave me; only about 3l. or 4l. at a time—the robbery caused me to pledge other things—I had the bracelet nearly six weeks—I did not buy it—I and my wife picked it up together—I went to several shops and wanted to pledge it, and when I went down to see Captain Taylor, I told him where I had picked it up, and he said I had done quite right to pledge it instead of selling it—I also found the ring—I did not tell Reeves that I had pledged the bracelet for 10l.—I pledged it first for 6l., and then I went to the shop, and they said I could have some more if I wanted it, and they let me have 2l. more; then my wife and I went again, and I said, "I want 2l. more," and they gave it me; but I never told Reeves—I told Hines—I never

said that I bad bought it, and that it had cost me 20l.—I did not say it was worth 20l.—I said, "I believe I have had the full value of it, 10l.;" so the man at the pledge-shop told me—I have not got the duplicates of it with me—my wife is not here; she is in the country—I came up to London again, on Wednesday evening, by train—I had been up twice before that, and since the first occasion when I met Reeves—I came up once with our minister, and once by myself—I did not see Reeves on any occasion, but the two I have mentioned—I did not meet him between those two occasions, and go with him to a public-house, nor did he treat me at a public-house—I never told him I was in distress—it was at his house that I told him I was in reduced circumstances; and he said that he knew our minister down at Poole, and was very sorry for me—he said he had been to Brighton, but bad been obliged to leave his place—he did not tell me he was private tutor to a son, or brother, of the Rev. Mr. Nellum—he told me he was acquainted with parsons and doctors—he did not tell me he was a tutor—he told me he could write to the parsons and borrow money of them, because he had paid come of them money when he went to church—I have heard, since the 17th, that Reeves was a gentleman, and tutor in a gentleman's family—I heard of it at the police-court—I saw a doctor there, who stated to the Magistrate that he was a tutor in his brother's family; but I went to his lodgings, and to five different houses where he bad lodged, and the landladies all said he had left—I never mentioned before to day about the request being made that I should take my boots off, because they never asked me about it—Reeves did not tell me that the other man was his son; but in the house he called him his son, to the landlady and her daughter—I never knew, till the 17th, that he had a son—he did not tell me he had one the first time I met him—I did not say anything to the Magistrate about Reeves saying that the third man was his son—I did not say anything about the person asking me to smell his handkerchief—on the Sunday morning, when I was at Reeves's house, he sent out and got fourpenny-worth of meat, and stewed it for dinner—on the last occasion, he said he had no "money; and I bought some celery, meat, and potatoes, going home to his lodgings—I never said to the Magistrate that he said he had no money, because they never asked me.

MR. DALEY. Q. If you had not known Reeves before, would you have gone home with him? A. Yes; because he met me in the street and asked me where I came from, and I told him, and he said he knew Poole, and had been all over the country; that he had been at Brighton.

COURT. Q. Then your minister was mentioned at Poole? A. Yes—the Rev. Mr. Wilson was the one he said he knew—he is the clergyman of St. Paul's Church, at Poole.

JOHN BEALL (Policeman, E 104). On 17th December, about 12, or halt past, in the morning, I was called to 3, Foley-street, and the prisoners were given in my custody—I found them in the room—I took them to the station and searched them—on Reeves I found two sovereigns, and 19s. 6d. in silver, 9d. in coppers, a pair of spectacles, and three duplicates—on Hines I found a small box, a penny, and two little keys—the chain which has been produced I found on the floor—I have tried to find the third man—I have got the description of him, as near as can be, but cannot find him.

Cross-examined. Q. Did Reeves say anything about this that man; that he had only casually met him? A. No, he said nothing about him—he told Mr. Hughes that he would do all he could to find him—what I found on him had nothing to do with this charge—he said, in the room,

that he knew nothing at all about it—I took him up in his own room—the prosecutor stood at the door, and sent a cabman after me, and I went up with him to Reeves's room—when the charge was made Reeves said that he did not know that anything of the kind had occurred—I believe this chain is brass—I found it lying on the floor.

COURT to WILLIAM HUGHES. Q. What money had you when you went into the prisoner's house on 17th December? A. Twenty-two shillings in silver, and ninepence or tenpence in coppers; in the pocket of my coat, which Mr. Hines hung up behind the door—that was the sum I lost—I had no gold about me—my silver double-cased watch, and my other chain, which was attached to it, were also stolen from me—that was all I had left after I had bought the potatoes and meat for supper—I have not had a farthing of my money since—I have had other money since, from a gentleman; a friend that had assisted me, and put me in business.

JOHN WEBBER . I reside at 3, Foley-street, and am a carpenter—I remember seeing a man on 17th in the wash-house, cleaning some celery—when I was about two yards from him, he turned his head to look who was coming—it was on Wednesday night, about 10 o'clock, as near as I can tell you—on his left cheek I saw a great swelling; a tumour, as far at I could see—I do not know who the man was—I never saw him before.

SARAH ANN ROBERTS . I live at 3, Foley-street, with my mother, who rents the house—in December last I let a room to Reeves and a tall man, whom he called his son—I saw something on his face, but I could not swear to it.

RUTH ROBERTS . I am the mother of the last witness—I did not see Reeves until I saw him at the police-court—my daughter let him the lodging, on Tuesday, 16th December—when I saw the young man he had the light on the right side of the face, so that I could not see the left side—he seemed to me to avoid doing so—I did not see anything on his face.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What time did you go to bed on 17th December? A. We did not go to bed at all—the policeman was in the house—we beard a great noise before the policeman came.

COURT to WILLIAM HUGHES. Q. What did you pay for supper? A. 1s. 10d. for some steak, and a stick of celery, and I sent for some ale for them.

Hines put in a written defence, stating that on the night in question the prosecutor met him at the George Inn, Castle-street, and invited him to drink; that they afterwards met Reeves and Robert, the person who had absconded, and went home to Reeves's lodgings; that he (Hines) was sent out for some beer, and on his return the prosecutor complained of having been robbed, and Robert had left the place.

Reeves received a good character.

GUILTY .—Reeves was recommended to mercy by the prosecutor on account of an infirmity of vision.— Confined Twelve Months each.

Reference Number: t18630105-239

239. HENRY WALHAM (22) and DANEL TUNNEY (30) , Robbery with violence on William Toy, and stealing 17s., his money.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM TOY . I am a pensioner in the 9th Lancers, and live at 9, Caroline-place, Chelsea—on Friday, 12th January, about half-past 11, I went into a public-house at the corner of White Lion-street, Chelsea, where I met the two prisoners—they asked me and another one to give them something to drink, and I did so, and afterwards went out of the public-house—they followed me, and when I had got, I should say about thirty yards from the

public-house the third man attacked me—he attempted to hit me with something like a piece of iron—I caught it on my wrist—the two prisoners caught me by the neck—they put my fingers inside the back of my necktie, and then they tore the pocket of my waistcoat out, which held my money—there was about 17s. to the best of my knowledge—the prisoners were both engaged on me at the time, and I could not see which did which—I am quite sure these are the two men—I had been drinking during the day, but I was well enough to know what occurred—I was very nigh strangled.

Walham. Q. Where did you first meet us three that night? A. At the Grotto public-house, near Chelsea College; not where I treated you—I do not recollect coming into the Royal Hospital and tossing you, and Tunney and the other man, for two pints of porter—I had about 18s. in my pocket when I met you—I think I asked you to drink: I am not certain—the barman did not refuse to nerve me—I did not go to the Duke of York public-house, that I am aware of—I had been drinking, but was not drunk—I knew perfectly well what I was doing—I was a stranger in that quarter—I did not have two half pints of rum and a screw of tobacco, which you paid for, that I am aware of—I cannot say by which door I went into the public-house at the corner—you did not go into a little box there by yourselves, that I am aware of, nor was there anybody else there—I cannot swear that there was nobody there besides us—I do not know who drank the gin that I called for; I left it for you—I hardly came to my senses for two or three minutes after you robbed me—the policeman came up pretty soon after I called out—no one took hold of my arm that I saw—I cannot say that I spent at Mr. Dennis's house.

JOHN DENNIS . I am landlord of the Rose and Crown, at the corner of While Lion-street, Chelsea—on the night of 12th December the prosecutor came there with three others, of whom the prisoners are two; I am sure of that—they all appeared the worse for liquor—in consequence of that I supplied only a quartern of gin, which the prosecutor left untouched—he put his hand in his pocket and put down some coppers, and a half-crown amongst them—I picked up the half-crown, handed it to him, told him to be more careful, and paid myself from the coppers—the men had evidently all been drinking—they were not shamming drunkenness as soon as the prosecutor paid for it, he said, "Now, I am off"—he turned round, and they followed him.

Walham. Q. Was your house open when we came there? A. One pair of doors was open; the shutters were all up—it was 12 o'clock—you did not have to knock to get in—some men were round the table having A little beer—they all stopped after you went out—I did not look outside—as soon as you were outside I bolted the door—you did not stop three seconds after the prosecutor—the gin was drank among those that were there—I did not take it back.

JAMES DAKIN . I live at 5, Victoria-road, Turk's-row, Chelsea, and am a coachsmith—about half-past 12 on the night of the 12th December I was in Lower Sloane-street, opposite the market, and Raw three men struggling with the prosecutor—I had known the men before, but I only recognised. Tunney by his voice—I was fifty or sixty yards off when I saw them—I ran, they heard me coming, Tunney had his right hand in the prosecutor's waistcoat pocket—he could not get the money out, he gave a wrench, and the money fell on the pavement—I saw him pick up some, and then he and the others ran away—when they heard me coming they let go of the

prosecutor's neck, and then the prosecutor began to halloo "Police," and then they ran away—this was nearly opposite the Rose and Crown—I cannot say whether Walham was there—I am sure Tunney was there.

COURT. Q. How far was this from the Rose and Crown? A. I suppose about twenty or thirty yards—there was a lamp with a double branch close by.

ROBERT WOODFORD (Policeman, B 211). I heard "Policeman" called on this night, and saw the prosecutor at the corner of White Lion-street, Chelsea—he told me he had been robbed by three men, who had gone into a public house close by—I went in there, but they were not there—the same evening I found a shilling and a piece of the lining of a waistcoat pocket on the ground, at a spot which the prosecutor pointed out to me—next day I took the prisoners at the General Elliott, in Chelea—they were drinking together—I told Walham he*as charged with highway robbery, with violence, in White Lion-street—he said, "I know nothing about it"—I have since examined the prosecutor's waistcoat pocket, and found that the piece which I picked up fitted it.

THOMAS WAKE (Police-sergeant, B 45). I was with the last witness—I have heard his evidence, and confirm it—I took Tunney in custody. Walham's Defence. We were drinking with the prosecutor all the evening. He told Mr. Dennis that we had been drinking with him. On the second examination he said be could not swear who it was that put their hand round his neck. If I had been robbing the prosecutor, or with, him, Dakin must have seen me with ray white jacket on, even if I did run away; but he says he never did see me at all.

Tunney t Defence. The prosecutor swore distinctly on the second occasion that he did not know who it was robbed him, or struck him.

COURT to JOHN DENNIS. Q. What words did the prosecutor use at the second examination? A. I know there was some little difference between his statements as to which did one part and which did the other, but there was no discrepancy about the men who robbed him.

GUILTY .—Tunney was further charged with hawing been before convicted.

WILLIAM BLOOMFIELD (Policeman, A 248). I produce a certificate (read: "Guildhall, Westminster, June, 1853.—Daniel Tunney convicted of stealing a watch from the person; confined eight months")—I was present at the Westminster sessions when he was tried—Tunney is the same person.

TUNNEY.—GUILTY. **†— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.

WALHAM.†— Confined Eighteen Months..

Reference Number: t18630105-240

240. ISAAC M'GUINNESS (29), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Catherine Sophia Blamire, and stealing therein 5s., her property.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES MITCHELL . I am a potman at the Folly public-house, kept by Mrs. Blamire—on Saturday, 8th December, about half-past 11, I fastened up the house as usual—it was quite safe when I went to bed—about half-past 1 in the morning I heard a knocking, which induced me to get up—I let in Burgess, a policeman, who found the prisoner in the tap-room—f saw Burgess bring him out, search him, and find on him three shillings, four sixpences, a threepenny piece, and copper money, a knife, and a key—when I came down the three tap-room windows, and the one leading into the bar, were open; they had all been shut at night—any person by getting over could get in—the shutter draws up—the door was still bolted; the winder

had been secured with a wooden wedge—he must have got in by getting over the top of the shutter—I believe I have neon the prisoner at that public-house before.

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I suppose at any one of the windows a man could get in or out? A. A large man could not—one window would have been enough for a man to get in at—he would not want all four—I believe the prisoner had been a customer at the house—I do not know anything about him—he was lying on the seat in the tap-room when I saw him—he had a watch—I cannot speak as to the value of it—he also had a ring—that was given up to his parents at once—I believe he lives at Poplar.

CATHERINE SOPHIA BLAMIRE . I am the landlady of the Folly public-house—it was safe on the night of the 8th, at half-past 11—at half-past I next morning there was a knocking—I got up and went down stain with the potman—when I went to bed overnight there were in the till five shillings, five sixpences, some coppers, and, I believe, two or three threepenny pieces—I merely shut the till, without locking it—in the rooming it was wide open, and I missed three shillings, four sixpences, and some coppers, out of it—I saw some money taken from the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you make a note on paper of the money in the till? A. No—I looked in the till the very last thing at night—I served some watermen that night with something which came to 1/2 d.—I did not give them too much in change—after they went I arranged the till again, taking out the shilling they had given me—I did not give them fourpence too much in change—there were two shillings left outside the till when I came down in the morning, and one sixpence left—any one opening the till could have teen them—I never saw the prisoner before—I do not wait at the bar—I did not see him when I came down until the policeman brought him out—he did not seem as though he had been drinking, nor did he seem stupid and heavy, because he said, "You need not hold me so tight, I will not run away.

JOHN BURGESS (Policeman, K 256). About ten minutes past 1 on the morning of the 9th, I saw some man, not the prisoner, near the Folly public-house—he asked me a question—I then looked at the Folly public-house, and saw a window disturbed, which had been all right half an hour before—the top sash was pulled down below the shutters—I jumped on to the window-till, looked in with my light, and saw the prisoner come out from the bar into the tap-room—I asked him what ho was doing there, and he gave a vulgar answer—I kicked at the window, and saw him come out of the bar again—I threw up the window, and made the landlady hear me—I went in and found the prisoner lying on the sofa in the tap-room—he appeared quite sober—I took him, searched him, and found four shillings, three sixpences, a threepenny piece, and some coppers—I saw the till wide open.

Cross-examined. Q. You saw a man near there first, I believe? A. Yes—I did not catch hold of him—I did not then see all the four windows open, I did afterwards, when that man ran away—I thought it extraordinary to see four windows open—if he had got in at either of the other three windows, he could not have got into the bar without forcing the door—the prisoner did not tell me how long he had been there—I asked him his name, and he refused to tell me—I know now that his parents are respectable, and well off—as for as I know he bears a character of respectability and honesty—I know that every person who knows him would give him an excellent character.

Q. Supposing he had gone in there overnight and had got drunk, and the

people had gone out, is there any place where ho might have gone, so that those in the tap-room could not have seen him? A. No; unless he had hid underneath the settle, and if there had been a light in the tap-room I do not see that he could have hid there—he could if the lights were all out, but then he could not have opened all those four windows—they were opened from the outside.

COURT to JAMES MITCHELL. Q. Could people open the windows as you saw them, from the inside? A. Not if the shutters were up—considering how I left them the night before, I do not think that any one could have opened them from the inside only, in the way in which I found them opened in the morning, because there is nothing to get hold of to get the sash down—there is an ordinary meeting-bar in the middle, but it is very shallow—there is no cross bar—there is a good hold outside—the sash projects more outside than inside—I open the shutters from the inside—if I want to open the sash I go outside—they all four open in the same way.

COURT to JOHN BURGESS. Q. Did you see marks of some one having got up at that particular window which opened into the tap-room? A. Yes; live or six footmarks.


FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, January 8th, 1863.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-241

241. ARTHUR NEWMAN (42), was indicted (with Richard Pearson, not in custody,) for unlawfully obtaining goods, the property of Jeremiah Walton and others, by false pretences. Second Count, for a conspiracy.

MESSRS. METCALFE and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

JEREMIAH WALTON . I am a manufacturer, carrying on business at Bradford, in Yorkshire—some time last year I had business transaction with a person named Richard Pearson—the first was on 3d June, and they continued till the middle of July; at that time he was indebted to me, for goods supplied, 800l. or: there more—I received 200l. from him; he owed me 600l.—in the middle of July, I saw Pearson and the prisoner at the Bowling Green hotel, at Bradford—I went there expecting to see Pearson, and Newman was there when I arrived, in the large chamber, along the Pearson—Pearson took me into a small room, and afterwards went out and called Newman into the room—he said to him, "Come here, if you please, I have been telling this gentleman about your owing we this 500l."—Newman said, "It is so; I am a man that ships a good deal, and I am expecting some money in the course of two or three weeks, or it perhaps may be rather longer, and you shall be paid every penny"—he then went out—I saw him once or twice after that, on the same day—I saw him three times that day at the Bowling Green hotel—Pearson was present twice when I saw him—Pearson said, in Newman's presence, the second time I saw him, that Newman was a man that shipped a good deal, and he was likely to do a tradesman a deal of good, that he was a man of great wealth—I said they might go and look some goods over—I next saw Newman, somewhere about the middle of August, at the Bowling Green hotel—I said to him, it would not do; the payments not having been made in an honourable sort of way, and I was surprised—he made a statement, that the accounts had not come

from abroad, as they ought to have done; I had no occasion to be at all frightened, and he showed a telegram he had got—he had it in his hand, and he said there were both money and goods coming to a large extent—he mentioned Russia and other places; I did not particularly notice—he said I need not be frightened, for all would be paid in a very short time—that is chiefly what he said—the whole amount of goods I supplied after the middle of July, was somewhere about 500l. worth—after I first saw Newman, about 28th or 29th of August, I supplied 38l. or 39l. worth of goods, I think—it was after the middle of August—it was in consequence of what Newman said, that I allowed the further credit, from the middle of July, from his conventions with Pearson; but for Pearson's representing Newman to be a rich man, I should not have supplied more goods, because be bad missed his payments—I next saw Newman, in September, about the 11th, I believe, at the same hotel, at Bradford—Pearson was with him—there was some conversation about a 100l. cheque on that occasion—it was owing to Mr. Newman that I got that cheque—I have not got it now; I destroyed it—Newman said that he had got a notice from abroad that there was a large sum of money coming, he thought he would have it in a day or two, but he was certain within a week, so that it would be certain to be there before the cheque was due—I am not certain whether the cheque was given to me on the 11th, or whether it was due on the 11th—I got no money on account of it—it was dated a week forward—before I destroyed it, I presented it; not myself, it was sent up. and I had it back again, and destroyed it, perhaps it might be a fortnight afterwards—it was made payable to me, from Pearson, on the London and Westminster Bank, I believe—at the Utter end of October, I received six bills of exchange, from Pearson, at the Great Northern hotel, at Leeds—Newman was not present then—I afterwards saw him at the Junction inn, at Bradford, and had some conversation with him about those bills,—as soon as I went in, I pat two bills down on the table and said to Mr. Newman, "Those bills ought to be endorsed by you; will you endorse them now"—I said, "Here is Mr. Pearson here, says you ought to endorse them"—Pearson was there the whole time—I let them stop on the table half an hour or forty minutes, and Newman walked about and never said a word—Pearson said they belonged to him, and he ought to endorse them—there was no pen and ink there, and I thought I would go out and get some—just as I came in, Pearson and Newman were talking about these bills, and Pearson said, "You ought to endorse them, for you know they are bills that I got from you"—Newman said, "I should have endorsed them, but for his (meaning me) stopping the 625l. bills from being discounted"—he said nothing more—I let them stop about twenty minutes longer, but he did not endorse them—those bills were three of the six I had received from Pearson—they were not in part payment of my account—they were not given to me—they were given to another party—I received the six bills at Leeds, at payment towards my account—I never saw the 625l. bills, to which Newman adverted—these are the six bills I received (produced)—I can't exactly tell you when I received these two (produced)—it was previous to getting the six bills at Leeds—I got these two from Pearson—I never had any conversation with Newman in respect of these two bills; they were paid away directly—I never got any money on those two bills, or upon the six—they are all due—after I saw Newman in the middle of July, I got a cheque for 50l. from him, which was dishonoured—I believe I got that about 17th September—that is the only sum I received at all, except 2l. 10s.—after this

interview at the Junction hotel, when Newman refused to endorse the bills, I did not see him again before he was in custody.

Cross-examined by MR. KEMP (with MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS). Q. Is it true, that Mr. Pearson, at the present time, owes you 1,078l.? A. Yes, that is so—I first commenced my transactions with Pearson on 3d June, 1862, and supplied him with rather better than 800l. worth of goods, before I became acquainted with Newman, and since then I have supplied him with 500l. worth more—I am quite sure I have not received since that time, more than 52l. 1Os., the 50l. cheque and the 2l. 10s.—my son has not received any money, to my knowledge—he is not a partner; he keeps the Account, and would be better able to speak to this than I am—on the first account, I received two bills, from Pearson, and paid them away—I believe they were not endorsed by Newman—on the second transaction, the six bills were given, which have been produced—the reason Newman gave for not signing the three bills, was that I had stopped 625l. in bills, from being discounted—I did not see Newman sign or endorse them—I saw Pearson endorse them, as they are there.

COURT. Q. Was Newman's name on them when Pearson endorsed them? A. Well, I can't read myself—I can tell by the amounts.

MR. KEMP. Q. Have you got those bills discounted? A. No; excepting one which I paid away—I have not obtained money on the others—I know nothing about those bills for 625l., except what I have heard—Newman said I had stopped him from getting them discounted, or else he should have had money to go on with—I heard him say they had been stolen from him.

COURT. Q. When did you hear him say that? A. At the Court—I never heard it till after he was-hi custody.

MR. KEMP. Q. Did those bills ever find their way into your hands? A. No—I Saw some papers at Mr. Dawson's, a solicitor's, but I did not know what they were—the bills were never in my hands at all—I never attempted to get them discounted—I know a man of the name of Murgatroyd—he is here to-day—I know be said he had these bills for 625l.—he did not hand them over to me—I did not sign a receipt for them—after the interview with Newman, when he mentioned about the telegram he had received, I supplied about 40l. worth more goods—the goods were all supplied to Pearson—I last saw Pearson, the Saturday before I gave the prisoner into custody—I can't tell exactly when that was—I did not give Pearson into custody—I spoke to him when I saw him.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Was there a warrant issued for his apprehension? A. Yes; I believe the day after Newman was taken; as soon as one could be got—I gave instructions for Pearson to be taken, at the same time that I gave the prisoner into custody—I have not seen him since—(The following bills of exchange were read: one dated September 8th, 1862, for 92 l. 16 s., drawn by G. C. Kilneke, accepted by Clermont and Co., 32, Fenchurch-street, indorsed G. C. Kilneke and Co., Newman and Co., R. Pearson; one, dated 12th September, 1862, for 89l. 12s., drawn by Edgar Emery, accepted by M. Chabry and Co., 7, Bloomfield-street, indorsed E. Emery, C. A. Martin, and Co., R. Pearson; one dated 19th September, 1862, for 74l. 14s., drawn by J. 0. Bernard and Co., acceptor Pollack and Co., 27, Bush-lane, indorsee J. 0. Bernard and Co., Newman and Co., R. Pearson; one dated 16th September, 1862, for 120l. 14s., drawer R. Pearson, acceptor August Lorek, Dunster-court, Mincing-lane, indorsee R. Pearson; one dated 16th August, 1862, for 50 l., drawer T. Levavasseur, acceptor M. Chabry and Co., 7, Bloomfield-street

indorser T. Levavasseur and Co., C, A. Martin and Co., R. Pearson; and one 23d August, 1862, for 96l. 7s. 4d., drawer C. A. Martin and Co., acceptor Barnett and Co.,29 Southampton-street, Strand, indorser C. A. Martin and Co., Newman and Co., R. Pearson.)

SQUIRE WALTON . I am the son of the last witness, and assist him in his business—in August last, I saw the prisoner at our warehouse, with Richard Pearson—Newman said my father had authorized Pearson and him to come an look at some winseys—Pearson said that Newman wanted to ship a lot of goods, and he must have them by the day after—he said be wanted a large quantity—I said to Pearson have you brought any money down—he said, "No, but Mr. Newman and myself have made arrangements with your father, to pay him 500l., between now and a fortnight"—Newman replied, "We have promised to pay your father, and I will guarantee you the money"—they then sorted out 33l. worth of goods I think—New man assisted in sorting them—they asked the price, and I put the price on—my father had told me that Pearson owed him 500l.—Pearson said to me, that Mr. Newman was of the firm of Newman and Co., merchants, London, and that he owed him 500l.—I sent off the goods they looked out, the same night—I came to London on 27th September, and first of all went to Mr. Pearson, and then went with him to Mr. Newman's place, 48, Fenchurch-street—Pearson went in first, and left me about half an hour at the door—he then called me in, Newman was there, and said, "I suppose you are after money"—I said, "Yes, I am"—he said, "Well, I hate got a telegram this very morning from Florence, to say that a large sum of money is on the road, and if you wait a few days I will see that you have every farthing of your money"—he pulled a drawer out, and said be had got a drawer full of bills, and he could supply what we wanted, if we would take them—I saw the bills on the table—I did not look at them, there was a good lot, as far as I could judge, a goodish pile—I said we could not do with any more bills, we had been obliged to pay cash—Newman said, "You won't give me any time to pay"—I did not get any money—I have been to the addresses given on those six bills, which my father received at Leeds—we have not bad any money in respect of those bills.

MATTHEW HILLAS . I am a manufacturer, trading under the firm of Demas Ellis, and Co., Dudley-hill, Bradford—before August, I had occasionally done business with Richard Pearson, of Noble-street, City—at that time, about 150l. or 200l. was owing to me by him—after that, on Thursday, 11th September, Pearson introduced Newman to me, at Bradford—Newman was not there then, but Pearson had some conversation with me, and also sent me a letter—on 18th September, the prisoner called at my place—he said, "I am Newman, Mr. Pearson has told you about an arrangement which has been made between him and I"—he had a number of bills with him—I think the amount he showed me was about 400l. odd; and he asked me to discount them for him—I told him I could not give him be cash then, but perhaps I could in the course of a week, but I could give him 50l. or 100l. then—I wrote out a cheque on the bank, and went and got a 50l. note and twenty sovereigns, which I gave him; he was to have the remainder afterwards—he gave me bills to the amount of 411l.—this (produced) is one of them, dated September 17th, for 86l. 17s. 4d.—I think there were four others; five altogether, of which this is one—on those I gave him the 70l.—I asked him how it was that the bills came down with Richard Pearson's name on, and not his, and he said, "Because I have

given Richard Pearson authority to collect my accounts, and to send them down here," and then, in my presence, he put his name before Richard Pearson's—the bill that I have spoken of, is drawn by Bernard and Co., and accepted by Pollack and Co. of Bush-lane; it is endorsed by Bernard and Co., Pearson, and Newman—Newman endorsed that and the other four also—I took the balance of Pearson's account out, and sent two back, and two I got discounted by a party, who appeared to know all about them—I said I would take 80 per cent for them to take our name out, and he gave me 20l. for the other 150l.; I meant I would take 80l. for a hundred to keep our name off, and the party said he would take the responsibility of the bills—somebody gave me 20l., for those two bills, and the other two were returned to Pearson, and this is the fifth—I returned the two to Pearson before they were due—I had to take this bill up.

COURT Q. You Say Newman put his name in before Pearson's? A. Yes, there was a gap left there.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Have you seen him write except that endorsement? A. Once only—I know his writing, these three endorsements on these three bills are in his handwriting—I believe those six are also endorsed by him—I believe the "Newman and Co." on each of the bills, to be the prisoner's writing—the endorsement of Newman and Co. on these three bills, I will not swear to—the handwriting is a little different.

COURT. Q. Do you believe it to be his handwriting? A. They are not different handwritings, but this is not so heavy as the other—I believe it to be his.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Did yon take a receipt for that 70l.? A. I did—Mr. Turner has it—this is it (produced)—it was given to me by the prisoner at the time—(Read: "Bradford, 17thSeptember, 1862.Received of Demas Ellis, and Co. for account of Mr. R. Pearson, 6, Noble-street, the sum of 70l., Newman and Co.)—I also received this letter from the prisoner; it heart his signature—(Read:"48, Fenchurch-street, London, 4th October, 1862. Messrs. Demas Ellis, and Co., Bradford, Gentlemen, we could not ascertain to-day whether the bill for 59l. 10s. which bears our endorsement, has been met by acceptor. Please let us know by return of post. We are, gentlemen, yours truly, Newman and Co.")—the bill spoken of in that letter was not one of those upon which the 70l. was advanced—I received that bill for 59l. 10s. from Pearson—I did not receive any more bills from Newman—I am reading from a copy of the bills.

COURT. Q. Just give the dates? A. The bill for 47l. 14s., dated September 5th, I received on September 11th—the one for 86l. 17s. 4d., dated September 17th, I received on the 18th; 49l. 14s. 6d., September 9th, I received on the 11th; 59l. 10s., dated June 30th, I don't know when I received—it might be July; I don't know—I received it from Pearson—the one dated September 12th, I received on the 17th, and the other dated September 10th, I received on the 11th.

MR. MITCALFE. Q. Did you supply goods to Pearson after receiving any of those bills? A. No: I abstained from pressing him for money, on account of receiving them, believing they were trade bills—the five I have now spoken of are all of the prisoner's endorsement—we had some conversation about the six bills, but I do not remember what it was—I believe that he knew about them.

Cross-examined. Q. You first became acquainted with New man on 18th September? A. Yes—prior to that time I had known Pearson five or six years—I had not had business transactions with him during the whole of that time—I

had business with him first during the spring of last year—he had paid me money before 18th September—on 18th September he owed me about 200l.—I had supplied him with over 2,000l. worth of goods, and had been paid the whole of it except about 200l.—I received 50l. in bills from Pearson—I was not pressing him for money at that time—they were given to me for discount, in part payment, and I was to give him the balance; I did not give it to him—if those bills had been paid he would have owed me 500l.—I had not supplied him with any more goods, but I had bills of his that came back dishonoured—I had 250l. of his bills in my hands then, and he wanted me to press the other persons, and said if they would not pay, he would—I have received the amount in bills, but not the money—I have been paid three items out of the 2,000l.—June 12th, 250l. in cheque, June 21st, 100l., and September 4th, 115l. 5s. 7d.,—then there was another bill besides, which was honoured a few days ago, which makes it more—he owes me now from 1,000l. to 1,100l.—I did not give the prisoner references—I gave references for Pearson—I described him as a respectable man, and I thought him to be so—my name is spelt with an H; my brother represents the Co. in our firm—I am quite sure I have got a brother in the business—there is Mr. Ellis, me, and a brother of mine, who is a sleeping partner—a few years ago there were seven partners; we dissolved, and the name of the firm now is Demas Ellis, and Co.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Demas Ellis is one man, is he not? A. Yes—Newman has been made a bankrupt—we have discovered no assets, not even a desk—they say there has been something since we were there, but I don't know what it amounts to—I don't know what the claims are altogether—I only know Air. Walton's now.

GEORGE TOLSON . I am a woollen manufacturer at Dewsbury, about nine miles from Bradford, in Yorkshire—I made the acquaintance of the prisoner in last August, I believe the latter part of August—he was with a person named Richard Pearson, and a man they call Johnson—Johnson came first before the others—I saw them at my warehouse at Dewsbury—they there picked out a parcel of goods to the amount of 134l.—Johnson, in Newman's presence, spoke about Mr. Newman's wife having a farm in her own right at Dorking; inducing me to give him credit, and that he was a man of money, that some of his relations on his wife's side were very rich, and his friends abroad were wealthy—Newman told me himself that he wanted the goods to ship off to Naples—he said the blankets were for Garibaldi—I asked them for references, and amongst others they gave me references to Demas Ellis, and Co. and Jeremiah Walton—I wrote to them, found them satisfactory, and sent the goods to Richard Pearson, 6, Noble-street—I was to send them there, because Mr. Newman stated that he had not a warehouse in Fenchurch-street, but Mr. Pearson had one—at that time I received an acceptance from Mr. Pearson—it was laid in London several weeks; it was due yesterday, and I have sent it to my bankers; I have not got it now—it has been several times to the office of Mr. Holmes, the prisoner's solicitor—it has been there for them to pay us the 36l. balance—I have not been able to get the money—Newman called on me in Dewsbury by himself after the first lot of goods were obtained and bought a lot of goods—I cannot speak to the amount—I did not send them—I looked them out and marked them—they were woollen goods—he gave us an order for some blankets—we got the material spun ready, but in consequence of what we heard we did not complete the order, and are using it for something else—that was about September—I cannot speak exactly to the amount of that order—he said He

wanted 10,000 blankets altogether, and that he must have 1,000 a month—the price that I set on them was a shilling a pound, and a pair of blankets would weigh ten pounds, that would be 2,500l. for the lot—I received a 50l. Bank of England note from William Senior, and twenty sovereigns; that was in September, perhaps the 19th or 20th—I live nine miles from Demas Ellis, and Co.'s place—William Senior is the principal partner in the firm of John Richardson and Sons, a firm of thirty years' standing—Mr. Newman had left the note with him, and he sent it to me—he asked me to give a reference to the people in our neighbourhood—I received this letter from the prisoner about the money on 19th September, and I also received this letter signed R. Pearson, from Newman personally—(This being read, was dated 16th September, 1862, from Noble-street, and stated that any goods which Mr. Newman might select, suitable for his markets, the writer would be agreeable to become a party to the transaction, and that he had every confidence in Mr. Newman, from what he knew if him and his family connexions)—I saw Pearson several times, and the prisoner also—I have told you of all the goods they got from me—I got three bills of exchange prior to the 70l.—these are they; I endorsed them last week—I got them from the prisoner, I believe, on 16th or 17th September, I cannot say to a day—it was after the goods were obtained, and after the order for the blankets had been given—it was while I had that order; those were all the bills I received—the prisoner wished me to be referee, to get some goods from a man called John Bruce, and another man called David Lee—I told him I could not become reference until my mind was satisfied that I was right in doing so; if any one called I would give the references I had got from Demas Ellis, and Co. and Walton, but not on my own strength, unless I had my money—I heard other things that were not satisfactory, and I refused to give references—I saw a lot of bills in his possession, as thick as this book, with stamps on them, and along with them were the three that he gave me—he said the bills would be right, I should be perfectly safe in taking them—I said, "I suppose if I write to these parties it will be all right?"—he said it would—he then gave me two, and said, "You had better take a third"—I took them, and said, "These are nothing, there is only Richard Pearson's name here, there is not yours"—I said, "You are represented to me as a man of wealth, these are nothing"—he then said, "Oh, I will sign them then," and he endorsed them in my drawing room—when that was done, he was going to sign my name in his bill-book—I said, "Hold on, these are not cashed," but he took the bill-book and insisted on writing my name—I still told him I was not satisfied—he said he would go to Bradford the following day, and he sent 70l. the day following, it was left with a gentleman for me—he afterwards, on 26th, asked for that 70l. back in cash, that is the only cash I ever did receive, and, I suppose, all I ever shall—the reason Newman gave me for wanting it back was, that I had not carried out my part of the agreement, to give a reference—I stuck to the 70l.—I had a lawyer's letter about it, but I still stuck to it.

Cross-examined. Q. You say that if the 134l. bill had been paid, you would have given a reference for him? A. I don't know about that—if the money had been paid at once, very probably I should have given the reference—I claim 36l. odd now—it was 134l., but I got 70l., ten watches, and a musical box.

MR. METCALFE. Q. How came the watches to be given to you? A. Mr. Newman left part, and I believe Mr. Pearson left part, to see if I could sell them; that was after they had ordered the goods—they were simply left by them to sell—I thought they looked very nice; they said they were worth

two guineas, but I find they are worth about 15s. each—Mr. Pearson gave this paper (produced) to me; it is in Newman's writing—it was weeks after I received the watches, and after I had received the 50l. in bills—(This was a notice from Newman to George Tolson, dated 12th September, 1862, to restore moneys and bills entrusted to him before 12 o'clock on that day, or steps would be taken to get goods)—the true box was left, and the watches I have not sold.

JAMES HALLIDAY . I am a manufacturer, carrying on business at Earls Heaton, Yorkshire—the prisoner is indebted to me 100l.—I first saw him about the 26th or 27th of August, with Pearson and Johnson—I sold 192l. worth of goods to Pearson, in the presence of the prisoner; part of those goods came up to London, and in the course of a few days Pearson sent down for the remainder of them—I thought it was not satisfactory and came up to London—Pearson happened to be down in Yorkshire then, and while I was at his office in London, Newman came in—he said, "We want these goods for Garibaldi's army"—I said, "Garibaldi is captured, you know"—he said, "We have an order for them, and it does not matter"—I said, "I would rather see Mr. Pearson"—he said, "Very likely he won't be here till Monday"—Pearson came up on Monday, and told the same tale—he said, "I don't care who these goods are for, they are for Newman, I have got a thundering profit on them"—it appears that Newman sold them in the town for twenty per cent, leas, for cash—Pearson told the same story about the blankets being for Garibaldi, and also said that be paid cash on the second Thursday in October—he said, "Well, I don't care about drawing; you can either draw on me or have it in cash"—I then proponed that I should draw on him for four months, net cash, and the other 150l. should be paid on the second Thursday in October—I got his acceptance, which will be due on the 8th of this month—I wrote up to tell him that the time was approaching, and he wrote to say that he would be at Dewsbury to pay me—he did not come—I got a cheque from Pearson for 100l., drawn by Newman, it was Newman's endorsement—my solicitors have it—I never got a penny on it.

Cross-examined. Q. What amount of goods have you supplied the prisoner with? A. I have not supplied him with any goods, they have gone to Pearson, 308l. worth have gone to him.

JOHN ANTHONY JOHNSON . I live at 32, Frampton-park-road, Hackney, and am an agent in the woollen trade—on 7th August, the prisoner gave me instructions to go down to Leeds and the neighbourhood, to purchase goods on account of himself and Pearson—I was to go myself, look for a market, and buy blankets, which were required for Garibaldi's army, and Mr. Pearson was to follow me—I went and met Pearson there—I did not meet the prisoner then—I went to Dewsbury and Earls Heaton, and round that neighbourhood—I went, amongst other persons, to Mr. Tolson and Mr. Halliday, with Pearson—we made inquiries and looked out goods—I also went with Newman—I heard him say that he was a man of substance, and that his transactions would be perfectly honourable, and that his brother-in-law was going to find a large sum of money for him, and I understood that he and Pearson were partners in the concern—I had known Mr. Pearson for a great number of years, from 1854, and always found him an honourable, straightforward man—I had had small transactions with him—I knew persons in the woollen trade—I was not known previously to Mr. Tolson or Mr. Halliday, but I am well known in the woollen market—it is impossible to say what amount of goods I bought, 1,500l., or 1,600l. worth altogether—I did not ascertain what became of the goods till after this inquiry—I

heard what became of them—I have not seen any of them, nor heard from Pearson or the prisoner anything about them—the prisoner had an office in Fenchurch-street, but there was no convenience to pack a quantity of goods, no warehouse—Pearson's was also a small place, not sufficient for anything of that kind—they told me they were shipping goods—I have letters in my pocket, saying they wanted the goods for shipping—I know nothing at all of the actual shipping myself.

Cross-examined. Q. You have some knowledge of the woollen trade? A. Yes; when goods are ordered for abroad, they are not always sent from the merchants to the packers—sometimes they don't go through the buyer's hands at all—I am out of a situation at present, and have been since this affair came on—I have been living in what way I can; on my family, I believe—I was to receive 2l. a week from the prisoner, whether I did anything or nothing, and two and a half per cent, on all purchases, and all my expenses paid—I have not really been out of an situation, because manufacturers come up with goods, and put them in my hands to find customers—I was in business myself once—I gave it op because my partner and I disagreed—I was in the employment of persons near Bradford and Leeds—I held very responsible situations—Mr. Teale was one—he never charged me with forgery—Mr. Teale was charged with forgery, and acquitted—I was charged with signing a delivery-order—it was not a forgery, and I was honourably acquitted; the Grand Jury threw out the bill—I was never charged in my life before—that was the only occasion—I am quite sure of that; never, either in Leeds or any where else—a party named Denison was the prosecutor in that case—I was in his employment previously as an agent; we were on an equality, and a little more on my side than his.

MR. MITCALFE. Q. You were charged with signing an order without proper authority from him? A. Yes; that is about two years ago.

WILLIAM PENN FRANCIS . I live in King-street, New Cut—I was in the employment of Newman, at 48, Fenchurch-street—I went there in June last, and was there up to the time he was taken—I know Pearson—I saw him frequently at Newman's office—goods came there during July, August, and September—there was no shipping done from the office, that I am aware of—none of these goods were shipped at all—I have been at Pearson's, in Noble-street—I have merely gone down there occasionally to assist to take the goods from Pearson's to our office—they were principally winseys—no goods were shipped from Pearson's, that I am aware of—some of the goods that came to our office went to Christie's—they are merchants and shippers—I don't know what became of them there—I used to take them there, and some more to Warner's—I do not know whether money was advanced upon them—I don't know that we sold any goods to anybody, else—some went to the pawnbroker's at one time, I believe—I have redeemed goods from the pawnbroker's; all kinds of goods, table-cloths, and things like that—they were new things—I can't tell when I first did that—it was nearly all the time I was there.

COURT. Q. Did you take any to the pawnbroker's? A. Only some umbrellas.

MR. METCALFE. Q. About what amount have you redeemed? A. It would be impossible for me to tell, it was so frequent—Newman was pressed for money a good deal—I remember the sheriffs officer coming in—he hid himself then—I denied him, by his direction—that was about July or August—he was constantly, during that time, being pressed for money by different persons—a good many people came in, of course I put

them off in the same-way that I did the sheriff's officer—I did so constantly—bills were presented there—I hare not seen a person calling himself Lovell—I know a person named Lovett—I don't know a person who calls; himself Roiss or Ross, or anybody named Harrington—I have never seen; him there, to my knowledge—there were no woollen goods in the office when Newman was arrested—there was a large quantity of papers there, and a number of bills of exchange—I did not count them—they were given to Mr. Holmes's clerk—different kinds of papers were given to him—I dare say he had enough to fill a couple of bushels, and among them were bills of exchange—I have not seen them since.

Cross-examined. Q. You remember the sheriff's officer coming in? A. Yes; that debt was paid—I don't know when—Warner and Co. are large skippers—Newman has told me that he has rich relations—I don't know that he has wealthy relations on his wife's side—I have never seen any of his wife's relations—I believe they are wealthy people.

COURT. Q. Do you know that, except from what he has told you? A. No; I have not beard it from other persons.

EDWARD HANCOOK (City-policeman, 477). I took the prisoner into custody in Oldfield-street, Pimlico—Baker, another officer, was with me—he said he would go to the station with us in a cab—we got a cab, and Baker and I got into it with the prisoner, and a gentleman whose name I don't know, but who was in the house with the prisoner—the prisoner and he sat side by side, and Baker and I opposite—on the way to the station, I saw the prisoner pass his hand behind the back of the other man, and the other man pass his hand so as to meet the prisoner's, then withdraw it, and place it in his pocket—after the prisoner was searched at the station, I turned to that man, and said, "Give me those papers that you took from the prisoner in the cab" and he handed me these papers in the prisoner's presence—I have not seen Pearson since the prisoner's apprehension—we have been making every effort to apprehend him.

Cross-examined. Q. Don't you know where he is? A. No; I could not lay my hand on him if I wanted to—we have received various accounts of where he is, but we cannot find him anywhere—I knew him some years since—he was never pointed out to me by Mr. Walton—I never law them together—there wan no other constable engaged in the matter except me and Baker.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Are these two bills of exchange, signed "R. Pearson," that you took from the prisoner's friend? A. Yes; one is accepted by Dumont and Co., 4, St. Mary-axe—I have been there, and could never see Dumont and Co.—the name is down now, and another name on the doorpost, and they deny all knowledge of them—the other is accepted by Messrs. Sherran and Co., 90, Lower Thames-street, London—one is for 50l. and the other is for 100l.—the first time I went I saw the name of Dumont up, and on the second occasion that name was erased, and another placed in its stead—I have also been to 90, Lower Thames-street, but can't find such a person as Sherran and Co.—they have been there, but are not now—I also found a card with "R. Pearson, fancy stuff and general merchant," upon it—also, a letter from Pearson to Newman—(Three letters were here read from Pearson to Newman; one dated 7th November, 1862, and the others September 15th, and November 6th, stating where lie was buying goods, that he had quieted all the people, and they would do anything in reason; and mentioning the different places where he was going to obtain goods.)

SOESMAN ABRAHAMS . I carry on business as a wholesale grocer, at 41, St.

Mary-at-Hill—I am the landlord of those premises—I have offices to let there—I know a person who called himself Bernard—he came to me about eighteen months ago, and left about last October—he occupied one room on the first floor front, and then he went up higher—he put up the name of Bernard and Co.—he had no warehouse, or any place excepting this room—bills were often presented there—he did not pay his rent before he left—I don't know whether bills were presented there after he left—I am always out—my young man is there.

WILLIAM LISSENDEN . I am housekeeper, at 26, Bush-lane, Cannon-street—it is let out in offices—I know a person named Pollack—he took a room in that house, on the first floor, on 2d May, 1862, and left at the latter end of July, or the beginning of August—he went away without settling up—I can't say what he had paid in advance—Pollack and Co. was put up on the door—no bills were presented to me—I know nothing about him since he has left.

WILLIAM AUGUSTUS PINFOLD . I am housekeeper and warehouseman, at 69, Hatton-garden—I know a person calling himself C. A. Martin—he took an office in that house, in February last, with a Mr. Callaghan—they occupied it up to 29th September—Martin was not there up to that time—I understood he was in Whitecross-street prison during some time—I can't exactly say when I saw him' at the office last—he was there in July, and he had called since September for letters—possession was given up in September, at Michaelmas—I have heard of the name of Pearson—a person named Pearson gave me a name once, a tall man—bills were presented to me—there was some rent paid—the whole was not settled for—my master was going to put in a broker, and he left some goods.

EMMA BEARD . I am housekeeper, at 28 and 29, Southampton-street, Strand—I know a person named Barnett—he occupied a room in those premises about fifteen months ago, or a little more—Barnett and Co. was painted up—he paid one quarter's rant, and owed two up to last Michaelmas—that was paid after it was due—he owed two quarters' rent when he left—he left some goods behind—many applications were made there about bills—I never saw Mr. Pearson there.

MART PHILLIPS . I am housekeeper at 32, Fenchurch-street—a person calling himself Levavasseur, occupied two rooms there—he commenced on 5th December, 1861—Levavasseur and Co. was painted up—he left at the beginning of April—he paid two quarters' rent—one quarter and one month was due when he left—he left a lad in the office, and continued them on till, I think, September—he was not there for some time previous to Mr. Flight, the landlord, taking possession—Mr. Levavasseur let one room to a gentleman named Le Jeur, as he told me, and painted up the name of Clermont and Co.—the landlord turned Clermont out at the same time.

ELIZABETH DEARDEN . I am the landlady of 7, Bloomfield-street—I know a person who calls himself Matthew Chabry—I found him in the occupation of two offices on the ground floor when I and my husband first went there on 25th April—after we were there, he had plates put up with "Messrs. Chabry and Co." on them—he left on 9th December—I saw him last there, I think, on that day—some rent was due when he left—applications have been made there for money, in respect of bill—I saw some blankets there once, about three months ago—they remained three days, and were then taken away in a van.

MARY STAPLES . I am housekeeper at 4, Austin Friars—I know a person

named Lewis Roiss (Rosa)—he occupied offices at No, 4, for one quarter and a half—he commenced between Christmas and Lady-day, and left it Midsummer—I saw him there up to that time—I saw him this morning in the yard, at Newgate, and identified him—the rent was due when he left, but he paid me up to his going—he behaved as a gentleman all the time I knew him.

CHARLES BAKER (city-detective). I took the prisoner into custody with the other officer Hancock.

Cross-examined. Q. When did you see Pearson last? A. Some months ago—I don't know where he is at the present time—I have no idea at present—I could not take him if I wanted—there is 10l. reward offered for him—I told one of those gentlemen I thought I knew where he was—I went to the place, and he was gone—I could not have taken him at any time since the prisoner has been in custody.


Reference Number: t18630105-242

242. ARTHUR NEWMAN was again indicted for unlawfully obtaining money, by false pretences, from Reginald Chauncey and John Grindle; and also for a conspiracy with John Turhoff.

MESSRS METCALFE and BESLET conducted the Prosecution.

REGINALD CHAUNCEY . I live at Lansdowne-road North, Notting-hill—at the time this matter happened I had a place of business at the Opera-arcade—I am a retired officer from the Indian service—I became acquainted with the prisoner about ten months ago; I saw him in a house in Gloucester-street, Pimlico—previous to that I was living in Sussex-street, dose by—he was introduced to me—he told me he had a recipe efor making Eau de Cologne and brandies, and asked me if I would speculate in them—I told him that I would on condition that I saw that everything was perfectly straightforward—he proposed that he should introduce me to Mr. Farina, but that I should have to pay a premium to obtain the secret, and be able to manufacture it—by appointment I went again to the prisoner's house, and he introduced a party to me who represented himself to be Farina—I have since ascertained that that person is called Turhoff; I never met him but that once—after some discussion an agreement was drawn up in my presence—the draft was drawn up by a solicitor, and afterwards copied out by a friend of mine—the party who represented himself to be Farina, signed it "Johann Maria Farina," and the prisoner and his servant attested it—on the other sheet there is a receipt for 10l.; that was for the premium I paid—it is in the prisoner's handwriting, and is signed by Turhoff—I saw him sign it—(This was dated 10th March, 1862, and purported to be an agreement of sale and purchase between Johann Maria Farina, of Cologne and Paris, and the witness)—After that was drawn up the prisoner asked me for some money to begin the manufacture with—he gave me a list of all the different things that he would have to purchase for the purpose of making the Eau de Cologne, amounting to 44l. odd—I gave him that, and also a cheque for 6l. to pay for a plate which had been lost—this is an agreement and receipt for the money, which I received from the prisoner (produced)—I gave him the cheque for 6l. on the night of 10th March, and dated it the 11th—he said it was wanted for a new copper plate from which to print the outside wrappers—he said Messrs. Smith, of Fenchurch-street, would engrave it—in consequence of that I drew the cheque, and struck out the word "Bearer," and made it "or order"—I did not authorize him to get the money or endorse the cheque—this sheet of plates was shown to me by the

prisoner and the pretended Farina the name day—the agreement refers to these; they at the same time showed me the blocks from which these were taken—I never got the blocks; I never got anything from the prisoner for the 60l. odd, but the agreement and these; I did not even get the copper plate—some Eau de Cologne was made while we were arranging this matter, in a spare room in my office, as a test—that I paid for independently of the 60l.—I liked it so that I went in for the rest—he made a little for me at first, to show how good it was—I have a boy in my office named Hough—I was not aware, till about a month afterwards, that he wrote the endorsement on the cheque—I never gave him authority to do so—I never told the prisoner to say that he was to do it for me.

Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you part with your business as a commission-agent? A. I did, in September last—I got 70l. for it, some at the time, and some afterwards—I got about 40l. in money, and the party who took it paid some of my debts—I got it all in September—it was at the latter end of August that I agreed to sell my business—Hough is not still in my employ—I am nothing now—I knew that Farina was Turhoff about a month before I sold my business about August—somebody in my office told me—I know there has been a firm of Farina at Cologne for a century—I don't know that they have made au immense fortune—I know that their Eau de Cologne is used throughout the world—I thought the secret was to be purchased for 10l.; I should be very glad now to sell it for 5s—on my oath, I thought that the secret of the real Farina's was to be bought for 10l., and I believed that Turhoff was Johann Maria Farina, of Cologne—the cheque of 11th March came back to me from Grindley's, my bankers, after the prisoner was captured—I do not have my pass-book returned to me periodically—I asked Hough about this matter about a month after I gave the cheque—I knew he signed it because he told me so; I did not apply for the cheque to see whether he had—I saw Turhoff a great many times after this—I knew that Hough had endorsed the cheque, but I did not know in what way—he told me he had written something at the back, that Newman brought it in to him, and told him I had said he was to do it—when the boy told me that, I imagined immediately that something was wrong—I told the boy that I thought he could be transported for it—I did not want to injure the poor boy—I did not imagine that the effect of his indorsement was to euable the prisoner to get the money—I did not get the plate—I did not make any inquiry about the cheque; I thought it was not worth it, such a paltry sum as that—I did not ask the boy what he had written there—I applied in July to Dormier for sums amounting to a sovereign at a time—I thought it was better to get half a loaf than no loaf at all—I did not care about getting the boy into trouble—I never used the word "lend" to Dormier—I can't say I ever threatened him if he did not pay—I left the Indian service in 1856; I belonged to the 71st regiment in the Indian Army—it is the Queen's service now—I am on half pay—I was lieutenant, brevet-captain in the service—since that I have been a commission agent—I do not know anything of the business, and that is why I gave it up—I could not understand it—I have also been a secretary to a public company since 1856—I was a commission agent about nine months, and I wish I had never touched it—I put the name of "Johann Maria Farina and Co." on my blind, in the Opera-arcade, and "sole agents"—he distinctly told me that he had a, City agent, and that was why I was not to sell any in the City.

ALBERT DORMIKR . I carry on business at 7, Old Jewry, and am the

agent of Johann Maria Farina, who carries on business at Cologne—I am acquainted with the place where he lives—this (produced) is a representation of it—this one is the house in which he is now living, and this is the old house which was pulled down a few years ago—I am the sole agent in England for the firm of Farina—there are other firms of Farina at Cologne—I have seen a person calling himself Turhoff—he has no right to use the name of Farina, or to authorize anybody else to use it—he is not employed by the firm I represent—the signature, "Johann Maria Farina" to the agreement which has been produced, is not the signature of our firm—that agreement is in no way authorized by me—my impression is that it is Turhoff's writing, but I have never seen him write—there are distinguishing cyphers on this sheet—this label is a trade mark; that trade mark exclusively implies to the firm which I represent, and to that firm alone.

COURT. Q. What about the others; are they yours also? A. This one is, on the piece of paper we wrap round the bottles, and these two are the signatures of the grandfather of the present Mr. Farina—they all apply to us, I believe.

MR. BESLEY. Q. I understand you to say that the whole of those marks, whether pictures or cyphers, apply to the firm which you represent? A. Yes; some are on the bottles, and some on the papers; the wrappers on the boxes are not here—each of these here apply to our firm exclusively.

Cross-examined. Q. Has Mr. Farina, of the Julichs Plats, any other agents besides yourself. A. No, none at all—I am the sole agent—I don't think there are any firms of the name of Farina anywhere else but at Cologne—Mr. Farina has a very large business—I can't tell whether 10l. is a small amount for our secret—I cannot say whether it would be nearer 10,000l.—I should put my own price upon it, if I was the proprietor.

MR. METCALFE. Q. The Eau de Cologne trade is not such a secret, the secret is that your firm has got a good name for it? A. Yes; but Mr. Farina himself has a secret by which he makes it—a recipe for Eau de Cologne can be got at any chemists—the thing is for our name to be on it.

COURT. Q. You would not admit that any other Ean de Cologne was better? A. Oh, no; we leave that to the public to decide.

THOMAS HOUGH . I live at 20, Cumberland-street, Pimlico, and am employed at the Opera-arcade, Pall Mall, by the gentleman who took Mr. Chauncey's business—I was there with Mr. Chauncey—I remember seeing the prisoner De Newman, and a person who was called Farina—I had been there six or seven weeks at that time—I was not much used to business—I had never been out before—on one occasion the prisoner came into the office when Mr. Chauncey was out, and produced this cheque to me—he told me to write "P. B. & W. E. Smith & Co."—I did not know anything about bills per procuration, or anything of that sort—I understood him to say, "P. B."—I did not alter the B. into a P.—it has been altered since it left my hand—I did not write the W., but I think I did the E. to Smith & Co.—he said that Mr. Chauncey said I was to write it—he said he was going down to Grindley's to get some money—I did not know the effect of what I was writing at all—I did not look at the face of the cheque—Mr. Chauncey asked me about it first, I think about a month after I had written it, and I told him all about it.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you remember the day when you endorsed this? A. I do not know the day—I think it was in March—Mr. Chauncey spoke to me about it a long time before the prisoner was taken into custody—he

did not show me the cheque—I don't know exactly what he said—he said something to the effect that I had rendered myself liable to transportation—he only said that I had signed the cheque; he did not say how he knew it—he did not say he had seen it; nothing of that kind—I said I had signed it—I am quite sure he spoke to me first about signing the cheque—he has spoken to me about it since, when he told me I was to come here, that is all—I remained in his employment up to the time of his leaving—I cannot say that I saw De Newman at the Opera-arcade after Mr. Chauncey spoke to me about signing the cheque—I think the prisoner was there frequently up to September—I don't know whether that was after Mr. Chauncey mentioned this to me—I think he was there in the mouths of June and July.

WILLIAM EASTDOWN SMITH . I am a stationer, engraver, and printer at 124, Fenchurch-street, and trade under the firm of W. E. Smith & Co.—there are no partners in the firm—I never authorized anyone to endorse this cheque, and did not endorse it myself—there is no other firm of my name carrying on business in Fenchurch-street—I received 5l., not by cheque—I never got any money in respect of this cheque.

Cross-examined. Q. You supplied a plate to the prisoner, I believe? A. I don't know who to—it was a plate respecting Eau de Cologne—we were paid no money at all that I know of—I did not take the order, one of my assistants did; he is not here—on February 3rd we received 1l., and on March 11th, by cash, 5l.

MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know what that was for? When was the work done? A. The work was charged on March 4th, plate, 6l.—there was 1l. in February for engraving a label plate—I don't know to whom it was supplied, or who it was paid by—we supply hundreds of plates in our business—it had nothing to do with any of these on this sheet—we never engrave a plate like this without authority; we are very particular in that way—if it is anything like a trade mark, we require to be authorized by the owner—I don't remember anything of this sort.

CHARLES RUSSELL WILKINSON . I am clerk in the banking-house of Messrs, Grindley & Co., East India agents and bankers, 55, Parliament-street—this cheque for 6l. was paid into our house on 11th March—it was endorsed as it is now—underneath the first endorsement, "Smith & Co." there is "Newman & Co."

Cross-examined. Q. You return your cheques to your customers, I suppose? A. Yes, sometimes—this cheque was sent back to Mr. Chauncey about a fortnight since, or it may be three or four weeks ago.

COURT. Q. Was not your attention attracted to that first endorsement? A. No doubt it was; it is a bungling affair—it has been written "P. B." first, and then a P. substituted for the B.—I have no doubt questions were asked by the party who paid it—I cannot say whether it was paid by me at all; I was cashier at the time—I know it has been through the house—I don't know anything of the prisoner—I never heard of the name of De Newman before.

REGINALD CHAUNCEY (re-examined). The endorsement, "Newman & Co." on this cheque is the prisoner's handwriting.


MR. METCALFE stated that the prisoner was a Prussian, and that he was convicted in 1851, in the name of Kelwig , for stealing 4,000 dollars from a young lady, and sentenced to two year's imprisonment. He also read a letter from the Berlin police authorities, which stated that the prisoner had been twice

convicted there, once on 25th April, 1846, for theft, sentence 3 years; and again on 19th July, 1850, sentence 9 years.

Three Years' Penal Servitude.

NEW COURT.—Friday, January 9th, 1863.


Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-243

243. JAMES HURLEY (18) , Robbery on Michael Murray, and stealing from his person 1 watch, and 18s., his property.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD BURTON . I am a hackney-carriage driver, of 13, College-place, Chelsea—on the morning of 4th November, about half-past 12 o'clock, I was in a coffee-shop, in King's-road, Chelsea, and saw four men there together—Marks, Ford, and Butler, who were tried here (See page 106), are three of them, and the prisoner is the fourth—I just went in and called for a cup of coffee, when they got up, lit their pipes, and went out.

Prisoner. Q. Have not you stated at the Court that then were five men? A. No—I came against three before, and one now.

CAROLINE CHARLOTTE FORSTER . I am a widow, of 9, Wellington-street, Chelsea—on 3d November, I was at a teetotal hall, and left about a quarter to 1 o'clock—I went through Lower Stone-street, and when I arrived at the Duke of York's school wall, I was insulted by Marks throwing himself across the path—three men passed behind me, and one stood at my side—that man was the prisoner—he passed "at the side of Marks, and the other three passed behind—there were gas lights close to me, and I could see his features, and have pointed him out since—I saw him on Saturday night, going down Jew's-row, and said to Sergeant Brett," There is the other man "—that is near the Chelsea-wall—the spot where the prosecutor was attacked is not five minutes' walk from the Duke of York wall; you would only have to walk a little way, and then turn—it is directly opposite South-street.

Prisoner. Q. Did you not state at Westminster that the one not taken was a short old-fashioned one? A. I said that there were five, and you were the fifth, and you knew me when I went after Sergeant Brett, and took to your heels—I said that the man was rather peculiarly dressed, and, was short; but he was not shorter than you.

WILLIAM BLOMFIELD (Policeman, A 248). On 4th November, I was, passing through Victoria-street, Westminster, about a quarter past 3 o'clock, and my attention was called by another constable to three men, two of whom, Ford and Butler, were tried at the last November Session, and the prisoner is the third—as soon as they saw me, Hurley pretended to be drunk—I knew them by sight, and told them the sooner they got back to. Chelsea the better—they were going towards Chelsea from the Broad Sanctuary.

THOMAS PHILLIPS . I keep a coffee-shop, at 28, Strutton-ground, Westminster—on the morning of 4th November, about half-post 2 o'clock, the prisoner came to me—he had been running; he seemed in great haste, and asked for a cup of coffee, which he had—I went towards the door, and he asked me to see if his two companions were coming up the street, which I did, and saw Ford and Butler, who I knew before—they joined the prisoner

who came from the counter to the door, and asked me if I had got any money—I said, "What for?"—he said, "To buy this watch," producing a very nice silver watch, broken at the top and the glass, and the minute-hand broken off—the bow was gone altogether—I told him I did not buy such things, and with that he went away—I saw him and his companions twice afterwards in the same street—I saw him from half-past 2, or a few minutes afterwards, which was the first time, till half-past 5 in the morning—he said, when he came to the house first, that the police had turned over two of his companions—my place is about two miles from Strutton-ground—I could do it in about a quarter of an hour running.

Prisoner. Q. How long did I stop in your house? A. About ten minutes, and I saw you in the street twice afterwards, at half-past 4 and a quarter past 5.

MICHAEL MURRAY . I am a painter, and live at 5, Symonds-street, Chelsea—on the night of November 3d., I was at this teetotal hall, in Little George-street, receiving the money of those who did not bring tickets—I could be seen doing that, by anybody outside—I left about 1 o'clock, leaving the money I had received behind, taking only my watch and about 18s. of my own—it was a silver Geneva lever watch—when I had got right into Symonds-street, three doors from my own place, three men came across the road, and one, who was close behind me, seized me by the throat, pulled me back, and prevented me from looking at the others, though I tried all I could to see them—I identified him as Marks—they ransacked my pocked—the one who was at my left trousers' pocket took my money, and the other took my watch out of my waistcoat pocket—directly Marks let go of me he struck me on my mouth, which filled it with blood, and I have since lost eight of my teeth—my jaw was cracked, and part of my gums have had to be out away—I cannot masticate any of my food—I have not recovered yet—I can only eat spoon victuals—it seemed more like a lump of iron than a fist—the blow rendered me senseless for a moment, and I then went and got a policeman, and went back to where I was attacked—the policeman afterwards showed me what appeared to be the bow of my watch.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you know me before the robbery was done? A. Oh! yes—it is my belief that you were one, and that you were the instigator of it—I cannot swear that I saw more than four.

PHILIS COCKER . I am the wife of Alfred Cocker, who keeps a beer-shop at Dardnell-road, Hammersmith—I know the prisoner—on 8th November, his brother brought him to lodge at our house—he slept in a room where other men slept—there were four beds in the room—one night after the prisoner and the other men were in bed, and I had been in bed some time I fancied my husband had fallen asleep; I got out of bed, and listened down stain whether I could hear him, and I heard the prisoner say, "We knocked him down, and took 18s. and a watch; we sold the watch for 25s., and divided the money among us"—some one asked him a question, and he said, "No; Lane was not there"—this conversation was either after Marks and the other men were committed, or after the trial—he was three weeks off and on at our house.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you say at the Court that I was not there? A. You said, "We knocked him down," and you said, "I sold the watch for 25s."—you owe me 5s. 10d., but I look to your brother to pay that, because he brought you—you were taken up two days before I gave any evidence.

WILLIAM MEADOWS . I am a carpenter—I slept in the same room with Hurley and some other men, at the beginning of November, and heard him

talk about Marks and the other men being tried—I cannot say whether that was before or after the trial, but I heard him say that it was the 4th of November—he said that Marks attacked Mr. Murray, and three of them passed behind; and he showed me how they garotted him, by putting his arm round my neck—he said that they took a watch and 18s. from him—he did not tell me who sold the watch.

Prisoner. Q. Did not you tell me, when yon came to see me in prison, that Sergeant Blewitt put you up to what you said on the second occasion? A. No.

George MEADOWS , I am a carpenter, and live at the Forester's Arms, Hammersmith—the prisoner slept is the same room with me on the night of the day when the other prisoners were committed for trial—he said to me, in the course of the night, that the whole of them were waiting for Mr. Murray; that Marks came before him and knocked him down, and knocked his teeth oat, and he (the prisoner) rifled his pockets, and took from him 18s. and a watch, which he afterwards sold for 25s., and they divided the money between them; that there were six of them together, and that he did not care a b—after the trial was over, for he was all right, and they could do nothing with him—I am quite sure he said that.

BENJAMIN BRFTT (Police-sergeant, B 29). On the morning of 4th November, between half-past I and twenty-five minutes to 2, the prosecutor came to me at the station, and said something—I went back with him to Symonds-street, and he pointed out the spot to me—I found a very large quantity of blood there, near which I picked up this bow of a silver watch.

RICHARD OTLEY (Policeman, T 36). On Tuesday night, 9th December, about a quarter to 8 o'clock, I apprehended the prisoner in Brook Green-lane, Hammersmith, working at the new chapel—I said, "Your name is James Hurley"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "I shall take you in custody and charge you with being concerned with four others in committing a garotte robbery at Chelsea, in the beginning of November"—he said, "I can get out of that"—I took him in custody—he said, "Do not disgrace me before my mates"—I had been searching for him since the 5th or 6th November, when the sergeant came down inquiring after Hurley.

Prisoner. On 6th November Sergeant Birch came, and I showed him a light, why did not he take me then?

WILLIAM BIRCH (Police-Sergeant B 25). I saw the prisoner a day or two after the robbery, but I was not satisfied at that time who committed it—I had not received any information about him.

Prisoner. Q. On 6th November I was in Mr. Murray's house; why not apprehend me then? A. Because I had no information then about your being concerned—you are a relation of Mr. Murray.

Prisoner's Defence. All I have got to say is that I am innocent of the crime.

GUILTY .—The police stated that in 1856 he was sentenced to fourteen days' imprisonment, and five years in a Reformatory; that in 1862 he was again in custody for stealing a coat; and Sergeant Brett stated that he was the associate of Marks and the other prisoners tried at the November Session, and had been the associate of thieves ever since he came out of the Reformatory two years ago. Ten Years' Penal Servitude.THE COURT directed a reward of 3l. to Inspector Butter, who was examined in the former case, and 2l. to Sergeant Birch.

Reference Number: t18630105-244

244. MARY ANN BURNS (25), JOHN COCKLIN (25), and MARGARET MILLER (32) , Robbery on John Charles, and stealing from his person 1 jacket, 1 comforter, and 1 handkerchief his property.

MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN CHARLES . I am a seaman of the Royal Navy—on 20th December, I was living at the Red Lion public-house, St. George's—I stop there on and off—on the night of that day I met the prisoner Burns in the Prince Regent public-house, and went with her to 17, Perseverance-place; we went into a room where Miller was, and afterwards, when I was sitting on a chair, Cocklin came in and struck me three or four hard blows on my right eye, without my speaking to him, or striking him first—I then went into another room, and Miller followed me, locked the door, and got me some cold water to wash the blood off my face—Burns was in the other room; and then Cocklin burst the door open, and began to ill-use me again—he struck me several times—my jacket, and a long comforter, and a black silk handkerchief, were taken from me—Burns tore my trouser's pocket clean out, containing three half-crowns and a sovereign, in a little bag, which was all taken away—I had not a farthing when I came out—Burns also took my comforter; Miller was very kind to me while I washed myself, and said that she would take care of it—I said, "Never mind."

Cross-examined by MR. COOPER (For Cocklin). Q. Had you been drinking? A. No; I was not the worse for liquor, nor can I say that Cocklin was—he took none of my things, but he struck me—I had never spoken to him—I was resting my foot upon a chair, which was very bad—he did not say that I had no right to his room and his lady, and ought not to come there—he never spoke to me, but used his fists upon me at once.

Burns. You said that you would give me a new frock for Christmas, and give me something when you received your money; you knew me six years' ago. Witness. I did not.

Miller. Ton asked me to take care of the things, and I put them in the cupboard.

HENRY SMITH (Policeman, K 310). On 20th December, about half-past 10 at night, I went to Perseverance-place, and found the prosecutor bleeding from his nose, and his right eye swollen up—I searched both rooms and found the comforter in an old chest in Miller's room, and in the same room the black silk handkerchief in a coal cupboard—Miller said to Burns, "You know you have get the man's jacket, why do not you turn it up, I do not want to be locked up for it"—I could not find the jacket, it was not in the house.

Burns. Q. There was a congregation round the door, and the windows were open, you broke them open. Witness. I was fetched by a female and went up; there was a crowd round the door—1s. 2d. was found on Cocklin which was given to him in the morning—the key of Miller's room door was found upon her—I told them the charge was robbing the seaman and assaulting him; they said that they had not robbed him—the prosecutor appeared sober and so were the prisoners—the prosecutor was standing outside the door when I got there.

The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows;—Miller says,'This young woman brought him in, and Cocklin, who lives with Burns, burst open the door and struck him as he found him in his room.” Burns says, “I met him in the Prince Regent, he asked me for a lodging; I sent him home.” Cocklin says, “I found him in my room; he struck me with a poker, I struck him again."

COURT to H. SMITH. Q. Was there any appearance of Cocklin being struck? A. Not the slightest mark—Cocklin said that he lived with Burns, and I have seen them together—he said that he had been struck with a poker.

Burns' Defence. I can swear he had no money when he went home with me—the neighbours broke the shutters.

Miller's Defence. The congregation of people ran in and upset the candle in the dark, and they broke open the window shutters.


Before Mr. Recorder.


Reference Number: t18630105-245

245. JOHN HEARN (44), was indicted for stealing 3 forks and 1 box, of Michael Spiars.

MICHAEL SPIARS . I am a carrier in High-street, Sydenham—I hire a stable at Mr. Stemson's yard, next to the police-station at Sydenham—on Friday night, or Saturday morning, 20th December, I left my cart in the stable yard—it contained cases and boxes of various things that I had brought from London; amongst others, a small deal box addressed to Miss Duckles, Lansdown-villa, Maple-road, Penge—the stable gates were closed when I left them between 12 and 1—I went back to the yard between 7 and 8—I found something was shifted and missed this box—I know the prisoner—he works with a person named Pocock, who hires a stable in the same yard—I got leave of Pocock to draw the staple and search the stable, and there I found the box concealed behind some straw; it had not been opened—I did not meddle with it—I gave information to the police and they took the matter in hand.

Prisoner. Q. Have you not the use of that stable as well as my master? A. No; I did not cut chaff there that same day; if you allowed my man to do so that has nothing to do with me—the stable was locked when I went to it.

JOHN CRITCHELL (Policeman, R 62). Spiars gave me information about this box and I went and concealed myself in Mr. Pocock's stable under two trusses of straw, with my hand on the comer of the box—the prisoner came in while I was there—after he had done his work he put the light out and came up and removed the straw until he came to the box—he shoved it and said to himself, "It's all right"—he then covered it up with two bundles of straw and moved away—I jumped out and said, "It is not all right; it don't suit your purpose to take the box to-night, I suppose"—the only reply he made wan "It is not worth taking"—I then took him into custody and said he would have to account for the box—he said he knew nothing about it—the box has since been opened; it contains three silver forks.

Prisoner's Defence. After I had done my horses, I went out of the stable with my basket under my arm; the constable came up to me rubbing his eyes as if he had been asleep, and said, "Jack, what are you going to do with the box 1" I said, "I have no box, what do you mean?" he said, "Oh, you know all about the box;" I said, "I know nothing about any box at all—I came back with him and he felt me and searched in the straw, and picked up this box. I know nothing about it; the stable was open for Spiars and his man to go and out chaff there, and the man was there cutting chaff when I went to work.


Reference Number: t18630105-246

246. WILLIAM THOMPSON (19) , Feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Samuel Robert Bishop, on 20th December, and stealing 3 watches and 10 chains his goods; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-247

247. WILLIAM PARSONS (18) , Feloniously assaulting George Lumber, and stealing from him 2 medals, his property.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE LUMBER . I am a private in the Royal Marines at Woolwich—on 13th August last, about 12 o'clock at night, I was in Martyr's-passage, Woolwich, when two men attacked me, knocked me down, and dragged me into the passage of a house and took my two medals from me—the prisoner is one of the men—I identified him at the Woolwich station—I know he is the man—he assisted in taking the medals from me; one was a Crimean medal with two bars, and the other a Turkish medal, with no bar.

Prisoner. He struck me first on that occasion. Witness, No, I did not; I thought they were skylarking at first—I had nothing else about me worth taking.

EMMA SMITH . I am the wife of George Smith, and live in Martyr's-passage—I was there at 12 o'clock on 13th August, standing at my door—I saw Spider and Snobby knock the marine down and take his medals—the prisoner is called Snobby—I told him he ought to be ashamed of himself—he said, "Mind your own business"—they ran away—Snobby was waiter at the "Canterbury "at Woolwich—I knew him before and he knew me—he was not waiter at this time, he was turned away.

Prisoner. I did not attack the Marine. Witness. You did, with the other one who was on trial before (See Vol. 46, page 631)—there were three or four of you, but you were the one who tackled him.

JOHN HOLMES , (Policeman, R 145). On 24th December, I saw the prisoner on Market-hill, Woolwich, followed him, and took him into custody—I told him he was charged with being concerned with stealing a medal, and also assaulting a Marine—he said he knew nothing about it, and wanted to get away—he said he had not been to Woolwich for nine months, and he would bring his father and mother to prove it—I had a description of him before, and had been in search of him for several weeks—it is quite a common practice at Woolwich for men of the criminal class to take medals from Marines, and then sell them back to them again.

Prisoner. Q. Did I say that I would not come with you? A. Yes; you did—you hesitated at first; you hung back a bit and got hold of your arm and drew you.

Prisoner's Defence. On 13th August, I think it was, I was going through Woolwich, and met this man who was convicted, and went and had some beer with him and his brother; there was a row, and I went out into the court. Lumber came out, and they said something to him, and he struck me, then a man named Murphy came up and took the medals and gave them to a girl there, who went away with them; next day, I went to my uncles, and stayed two months; I came back to Woolwich to fetch my little sister to London, and the policeman took me on that day; I always bore a good character at Woolwich, and I expected a gentleman from the "Canterbury" to give me a character.

GUILTY . *— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-248

248. JAMES WOODWARD (21) , Stealing, on 9th December, 1 printed railway ticket, and 1 piece of card; and, on 13th December, 4 printed railway tickets, and 4 pieces of card, of the South Eastern Railway Company his masters.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

MART ANN ATKINS . I live with my father and mother, at 3, Church-lane, Charlton—the prisoner lodged in our house four or five months—he

is a porter at the North Kent Railway-station, Charlton—on Tuesday, 9th December, I went from Charlton Railway-station to Woolwich Arsenal by the twenty-two minutes past 6 train—I saw the prisoner on the platform and gave him 1d to go across to the other side of the line and get me a third class ticket to go to the Arsenal—when he brought it to me he gave me another ticket and said, "That will bring you back from the Arsenal to Charlton"—that was a green ticket of this description (produced)—I did not notice what was on it, but the date was the 9th—I went from Charlton to Woolwich Arsenal and gave up the ticket I had paid for—I returned at half-past 7 in the evening, and gave up the green ticket I had received from the prisoner—it was collected by the station-master at Charlton station—I travelled back by the third-class as well.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did the prisoner lodge at your mother's house four or five months? A. Yes; I am not sure, but I am almost certain that the ticket I had was a green one—I did not take particular notice of it—I am sure it had "9th" on it and not "7th"—it was a whole ticket—I gave the prisoner nothing in return for it—Mr. Rastin collected it on my return—the prisoner lodged with Mr. Rastin's mother before he came to lodge with us.

CAROLINE ATKINS . I am the wife of William Atkins of Charlton—on 18th December, I gave the prisoner 2d. at my house to get two third-class railway-tickets from Charlton to Woolwich, to save my crossing the line—I went to the station, and he gave them to me and two others, green ones, which he said would fetch me back again—I took one of my children with me—we returned at four minutes to 10, and I gave up the two third-class tickets the prisoner had given me to Mr. Rastin—I did notice what was on them—they were whole tickets.

Cross-examined. Q. it was in order to save you the trouble of going across the line, was it not? A. Yes; it was more convenient for him who was accustomed to cross the line than for me—I gave him the money to pay for the tickets, but gave him nothing for the tickets he gave me, nor did he ask me—he has always been a very honest, well-conducted, young man.

SAMUEL STRICKLAND . I am a police-sergeant attached to the South Eastern Railway Company—I took the prisoner in custody between 12 and 1 o'clock on the day on 18th December, at Mr. Atkins' house, 3, Church-lane—I told him I took him for stealing five third-class railway-tickets; one on the 9th, and four on the 13th, and giving them over to his landlady and her children, for them to use between Woolwich Arsenal and Charltonstation—he said "The only two tickets I obtained for my landlady on Saturday night, were two that I purchased at the booking-office to convey her from Charlton to Woolwich Arsenal"—Caroline Atkins, who was present, said, "Jim, you had much better speak the truth"—I cautioned him that if he made any further answer to the charge, it would be used in evidence before the Magistrate—he said, "I hope you will forgive me this time, as two of the tickets that I took on Saturday night I burnt on Sunday morning, the other two were used by my landlady to convey her and a little girl from the Arsenal to Charlton: I also remember giving the ticket to Mary Ann Atkins on the 9th"—Saturday was the 13th—I took him in custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you say nothing more, prior to his making a statement? A. I did not—Mrs. Atkins was present—I did not say to him before he made the statement, as an inducement to make it, "You will only get a reprimand, that is all; go with me, and you will be back by 2," nor

anything like it—he asked me whether I could tell him what time he might return, so that he might make arrangements about his dinner with his landlady—he was in bed when I went there, and was culled up—the daughter was in and out of the room, as well as Mrs. Atkins.

Mr. POLAND. Q. Did you take him to the police-station? A. I took him first to the general manager's office, London-bridge, and from there to the station.

JOHN RASTIN . I am station-master at Charlton station, on the North Kent line—the prisoner has been a porter there for about two years—he occasionally assists me in collecting the tickets from the passengers arriving there—as soon as he collects them it is his duty to bring them into the office, and they are put into a box and sent to London—the third-class fare from Charlton to Woolwich is 1d; there are no return tickets between those stations—the up tickets are green, and the down are brown—they cannot take tickets at Charlton station to bring people back from Woolwich Arsenal—on 9th December the prisoner collected from the train due at thirty-four minutes past 5, and after its arrival, about 6 o'clock, I looked at the place where the tickets collected ought to be deposited—the prisoner had not brought them into the office, and I found them placed on the signal-box—I examined them, and there was one missing—I judge of that, because there are consecutive numbers, and 2341, I think it is, was not there—there were the numbers before and after it—Mary Ann Atkins came by the train arriving at Charlton at half-past 7 from Woolwich Arsenal, and I collected from her that identical ticket—the prisoner was employed in the station on 13th December to collect tickets, and after the arrival of the 5.34 train, I looked to see if any tickets were missing, and missed Nos. 2661, and 2662, 2663, and 2604—Mrs. Atkins and a child arrived at 10.3—my brother collected the tickets then and I went to him and took out of his hand the tickets 2663 and 2664, which I handed over to the constable—these are the three tickets I speak of—I do do not know what has become of Nos. 2661 and 2662—I communicated with my superiors, and the prisoner was given in custody.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you know Mrs. Atkins personally before this occasion? A. Tea, by sight perfectly well, by going up and down in the trains frequently, and her daughter also—it happens not unfrequently that tickets are missing—some times parties do not use them—other personal collect them; it was the prisoner's duty to collect that particular train—he is on day duty three weeks, and on night duty three weeks—he collected tickets regularly while other parties were at their meals during those particular weeks—they were not alternate weeks, but there would be one week out of three that he would not collect—he would take early duty—he was a porter as to pay and position—he came into the service of the company with a good character.

JOHN BOND . I am booking clerk at Woolwich Arsenal station, and um employed in issuing tickets—the prisoner was not employed there at all—my office is the only place where tickets can be got, to travel to Charlton—I issue them in consecutive numbers.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about the numbers of the tickets that were issued? A. I can tell you what numbers were issued before 6 o'clock, but I cannot tell at what particular time every ticket was issued—I have my book here—it is in my writing—I do not enter all the tickets, only the commencing and the closing number—it is only applicable to a particular period of the day; that is, up to the time the office is closed for the day—tickets wanted alter that would go into the next day's account

—I do not believe I ever saw the prisoner at Woolwich Arsenal station—other persons are employed in the office.

MR. POLAND. Q. Look at the book; what numbers were issued up to 6 o'clock on the 9th, third-class from Woolwich Arsenal to Charlton? A. 2291 is the earliest number, and up to 2367 at 6 o'clock—on the 13th the earliest number is 2570, and the closing number 2670—the 4.35 train would not be the last train before I made up my accounts; there would be one after that.

MR. LILLEY submitted that the tickets having been returned to the Company, and being in their possession, it was not such a taking of them at would constitute larceny.

MR. POLAND contended that the case was the same as that of taking a post-letter and burning it, which had been held to be a larceny, although it was only to prevent inquiry into a person's character. (See Rex v. Bolton, Dennison's Crown Cases.) THE COURT considered that the evidence proved a larceny.


Reference Number: t18630105-249

249. JOSEPH WHITEHEAD (22) , Stealing 1 box and 18l. in money, the property of William Holland.

Mr. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES KNIGHT . I am clerk to Mr. Holland, a distiller, of Deptford—on 20th December, a man, not the prisoner, came there; and from what he said I expected some one would come there next day—on the 21st he came again with the prisoner to order some gin—they asked if we did not sell less than two gallons—I said, "No," and they went away together—they came again about 4 the same afternoon, and ordered two gallons of gin, to be sent to 18, Albany-road, Old Kent-road—I booked the order, and the prisoner asked me to show him over the distillery; I said, "Certainly"—the cash-box was at my elbow while I booked the order, and the other man could reach it; he had an Inverness cape on—I heard him behind me when the prisoner asked to be shown over the distillery—the prisoner stood where he was while I was finishing the order, and the other man walked out, and got out of my sight—the prisoner then said, "Well, I will not see it to-day, some other time"—I had used the cash-box half an hour before they came in, and put some cash into it—I had occasion to go to it half an hour after they left, nobody having been to it in the mean time—I then found a different cash-box, empty—there had been about 18l. in mine in cash, and some bills worth from 1,000l. to 1,500l.—I went the same night to 18, Albany-road, but no such person was known—on the Sunday week following I met the prisoner at the Elephant and Castle, and gave him in custody—I said, "I charge you with stealing a cash-box;" he said, "I know nothing about it"—when the first man came in on the day before, the cash-box was in the counting-house, and he could see it.

Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. Has the counting-house two entrance? A. No; only one, from the public street—you cannot obtain entrance except the yard—any one wishing to give an order would enter the yard to access to the counting-house—there are about six men engaged in the distillery, and one clerk besides me—I am positive of the prisoner—they called together at 11, and again at 4—it was about half-past 3 when I used the cash-box—it had no compartments; the money was loose in it—there is an attorney conducting this case—I went to the cash-box again an hour afterwards, half an hoar after they came in—I never left it from half-Past 3 till half-past 4, and no person entered the counting-house during that time—it was on a desk; there was no railing to protect it—the counting-house is used by the other clerk—my employer carries on his business at

Deptford-bridge—there is one window in front of the counting-house—I stood at the door when the prisoner left; I did not go out.

MR. LEWIS. Q. Did you send the gin to 18, Albany-road? A. No—I have had no complaint of it not being sent—I went the same evening, and found that nobody of that name lived there.

WILLIAM BETTS . I am a potman, of Tanner's-hill. I heard of the robbery of the cash-box from Mr. Holland's on the same day, Friday—I was then in service at the Royal Albert public-house, New Cross-road, about 300 yards from Mr. Holland's distillery—on that Friday, about 2 o'clock, four men came to my master's house—they had a horse and cart outside—I did not see them come in it or go away in it—they were there about an hour, to the best of my knowledge—the prisoner is one of them; I have no doubt of him—I went in once, and attended on them.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the only opportunity you had of seeing him when you entered the room once for a few minutes? A. Yes—I had never seen him before—I heard of the robbery the same day—Mr. Spears, of Deptford, spoke to me about it casually.

THOMAS JOHNSON (Policeman, P 8). On 30th Nov. Mr. Knight gave the prisoner into my charge—he was told the charge in my presence, and said that he knew nothing about it—he was asked for his address, and he said, "I refuse to give it"—he was searched, and threepence was found on him.

Cross-examined. Q. Where was he taken? A. At the Elephant and Castle, Newington—that is about three miles from Deptford-bridge.

GUILTY .—Police-sergeant WHITE (D 16) stated that the prisoner had been convicted of being found concealed in a lady's bedroom with burglarious instruments, when he was sentenced to three month's imprisonment; and that he was the associate of the most desperate burglars and skeleton key thieves in Seven Dials.— Judgment respited.

Reference Number: t18630105-250

250. CATHERINE O'SHAY (33) , Stealing 25 yards of linsey and 1 piece of cotton print, value 10s., the property of Thomas Jacques Pickett.

MR. LANOFORD conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY PHILLIPS . I am a pawnbroker, of Wellington-street, Deptford—on Saturday night, January 3d, the prisoner came there about half-post 7, with this piece of linsey (produced), and pledged it for 6s. in the name of Ann Fronals—I had known her before—she came again in about half or three-quarters of an hour with a piece of print—I believe this (produced) is it; it was the same pattern—I thought she was tipsy, and I would not take it of her.

Prisoner. The linsey I never saw.

THOMAS JACQUES PICKETT . I live at 2, New King-street, Deptford, and am a draper—on Saturday night, 3d January, the prisoner came into my shop about 7 o'clock, and asked for a cap front—I served her—when she paid for it she sat down on a chair a little way from the counter, in the middle of the shop, and began to arrange her parcels and bundles—I saw her, but I was busy, and did not notice her particularly—presently she stooped down and began scrambling on the floor close to where she was sitting—a chair fell over, but she took no notice, and continued scrambling on the floor—I thought she was rather tipsy—I did not see what she picked up—I walked forward till I was opposite her, to see what it was—I saw her pick up a pair of shoes, which she put in her bundle, and then immediately went out—about four or five minutes after she was gone, I went to the middle of the shop to see if all was right, and I missed a piece of print and a piece of linsey of about twenty-five yards, from the bar that was there—this is the piece of

linsey, and the cotton print was of the same pattern as this—I saw them in the shop when she was there—I immediately went to the station-house.

JAMES LEAHY . I live at 41, Old-street, Deptford, and am a labourer—on Saturday night, 3d January, I met the prisoner about 9 o'clock opposite the Noah's Ark, in High-street, Deptford—she asked me to take her to the Railway-station—she had a large piece of cotton print with her—on her way she took me into a news agent's shop, and laid her things down on the counter there—she gave a dress to the lady there, and told her that she was to give it to me when I came in for it afterwards—after taking the prisoner to the station I got the piece from the shop and gave it to my mother, telling her that Mrs. O'Shay made her a present of it.

CATHERINE LEAHY . On 3d January my son gave me a piece of print—I took it home, and then took it to Mr. Phillip's shop to get 1s. 6d. for it, and the policeman came and took me—I believe this is the same piece.

ELIZA ANN HOLDER . I live with my father, a tobacconist, in High-street, Deptford—on the night of Saturday, 3d January, the prisoner came and asked if we would allow her to leave the piece of dress that she brought with her—I understood her that there were seven pieces of this print—I did not see the linsey—the print was rolled in a cloak—she said she would take two away to the dressmaker's to get made—she left it with me; it was all unrolled—this is it—she took it all away but one piece, which I heard her say she gave to Leahy for his mother.

JOSIAH TURNER (Policeman, R 237). I took the prisoner in custody yesterday morning—I told her I was going to take her in custody for stealing from Mr. Hachett's shop a piece of print and a piece of linsey—she said she knew nothing about the linsey, but the print she bought in High-street, Deptford, and gave 6s. for it—I asked her what she had to say about the piece of linsey which she had pledged at Mr. Phillips'—she said she knew nothing about it, but the piece of print she took there to sell—I asked her if she had any tickets—she said she had not, for the lost them going home—I have ascertained that she lived at Bennett-street, Chiswick—I went and searched her box, but found nothing there.

GUILTY .— Confined Six Month.

Reference Number: t18630105-251

251. EDWARD PORTER (23), and WILLIAM BATES (23) , Robbery with violence on Charles Baker, and stealing two medals from his person.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES BAKER . I am a gunner in the Royal Artillery at Woolwich—on Christmas night I was in the Uncle Tom's Cabin, where I had a pint of beer—I met a female named Hockley there, and went home with her to No. 5, Hogg-lane—while we were there the prisoner Porter came in, and muttered something to me, I could not understand what, and then he up with his fist and struck me—I fell on the ground—Bates came in directly afterwards and fell on me—Porter then pulled my two Crimean medals (produced) from my breast—Bates did not get off me when Porter had taken them from me—I pulled myself away from them at well at I could, and ran out for a policeman—I found one, and took him back to the room—the two prisoners were gone, but the girl was still there—I afterwards saw the prisoners in the Uncle Tom's Cabin, where I had seen them together that same evening some time before it happened—I gave them in custody—the policeman took them from there—I picked up one of the medals from where Rates had been sitting.

Porter. He assaulted me first, and I struck him. Witness. I did not strike you at all.

CHARLOTTE HOCKLEY . I am a single woman, living at Woolwich—on Christmas night I was drinking with the prosecutor in the Uncle Tom's Cabin—he went home to my lodging afterwards with me—while we were there, Porter came into the room, struck the prosecutor, and knocked him down, and Bates came in and held him down on the floor, and then knocked the candle out, so that I could not see—the prosecutor had both his medals when he came in—I afterwards saw that they were gone—the prisoners ran out of my room directly—I went and showed the policeman where they were, and they struck me as soon as I pointed them out—I saw one of the medals found—it was found on the mantel-piece close to where they knocked Baker down—the other was found afterwards in the Uncle Tom's Cabin by the policeman.

COURT. Q. Who struck you when you pointed them out? A. Porter—the prisoners got into my room by wrenching the bolt of the room door.

Porter. Q. Was there any one in the house besides you two when I came in? A. Not a soul but our two selves.

Bates. I went into the room for the candle, and there were four persons in the room? Witness. There was no one in the room but we two—we had not been looking for some medals.

SAMUEL LING (Policeman, R 159). On Christmas night, I went with the prosecutor to 95, Hogg-lane, Woolwich—he com plain ad of being assaulted, and of having lost two medals—he said two knaves had taken them from him, a tall one, and a short one—I found Hockley alone in her room—I found a Crimean medal on the mantle-shelf, behind an ornament—I afterwards went to the Uncle's Tom's Cabin, and the prisoners were pointed out to me as the parties—Porter struck the last witness—I sent for another constable, and stood at the door till he came back—when I was about to search Bates he ran into a water-closet at the end of the house, where I took him in custody—another constable took Porter—when Bates rose from his seat in the public-house the prosecutor called out, "Then lies my medal"—the prisoners denied haying stolen it.

JURY. Q. Was the prosecutor sober? A. Quite sober.

Bates's Defence. If I had the medals do you think I should have walked down from that house, and gone to the public-house where they had been before? I should have been further off if I had been guilty.

Porters Defence. On Christmas Eve I went home with the witness Hockley, and stopped with her all night. I got up in the morning and gave her two shillings; we had two or three pots of beer, and then we went to the "Cabin" and stopped there all the afternoon; and in the evening we went there again, and from there to the Star and Carter, where we stopped till about 10 at night. When I went into the room Hockley, Baker, a marine, and an officer's servant were in the room. Hockley assaulted me, I struck her, and Baker got up to take her part, and I struck him.

COURT to CHARLOTTE HOCKLEY. Q. Did Porter go home with you on Christmas Eve? A. No, he did not—I have seen him in the tap-room before; he used always to be there when I lived there as servant—I did not pick up a medal, nor did I know of the one being behind the ornament.

COURT to CHARLES BAKER. Q. How did the men come into the room? A. Porter came in first—the door was barred—he shoved against it and came in—I dare say it was fastened by a latch—I do not know whether there was a bolt—it was pushed open with a rush—the fastening of the medals goes right through, and is secured on the other side of the cloth—the men were not gone when I ran after the policeman, but they were when I came back with him.


Reference Number: t18630105-252

252. EDWARD PORTER and WILLIAM BATES again indicted for assaulting Charles Baker, and occasioning him actual bodily harm.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES BAKER . (The evidence of this witness given in the last case was read over to him by the Court, to which he assented).

GUILTY of a common assault.— Confined Six Months' each.

Reference Number: t18630105-253

253. EDWARD PORTER was again indicted for stealing a medal, the property of James Murray, from his person.

Mr. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES MURRAY . I am a gunner in the Royal Artillery at Woolwich—on Christmas night, about half-past 9, I was leaving the Uncle Tom's Cabin, when I met the prisoner—he snatched my Indian War medal off my breast, and ran away—I went in search of him, but never saw him till at the policestation the next day—this (produced) is the medal—I had seen the prisoner that night before in the Uncle Tom's Cabin—I knew him again when I saw him at the Court House.

Prisoner. Q. What time did you see me in the Uncle Tom's Cabin? A. As near as I can guess about half-past 9—I was sober—I had only drunk a pint of beer for dinner, and had just had another pint.

THOMAS LIPPIATT I am waiter at the Uncle Tom's Cabin, at Woolwich—I saw the prisoner there on Christmas night—I did not hear anything about a medal until the policeman came and took Porter and Bate—that was somewhere about 10 o'clock, or a quarter to 10—I noticed where they were sitting when the constable took them—I found two medals under the table, but not where they had been sitting—one medal had the name of Johnson, and the other the name of Murray—one of them was broken—this (produced) is the one with the name of Murray—that was about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour after the prisoners were taken to the station.

COURT. Q. Where did you find it? A. About three feet, or two feet six inches from where one of the prisoners had been sitting—the seat was close alongside of the table.

Prisoner. Q. Did any one see you pick the medals up? A. Yes, several—no one saw me, or any one else put them there—when they are busy I sometimes get a shilling a night there, and sometimes sixpence, besides my beer; it is according to the business.

COURT. Q. Do you know Charles Baker? A. Only by seeing him come into the "Cabin"—I did not see him pick up one of the medals—he was not there when I picked them up.

Prisoners Defence. I had been drinking all day; I was at the Star and Garter when they lost that medal.


CHARLES BAKER stated that a great many of the men had had their medals snatched away lately, and had lost them entirely.

Confined Four Months, to commence at the expiration of the Six Months in the last case.

Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.

Reference Number: t18630105-254

254. JAMES FENTON (22) , Stealing I sack and 400 oranges, value 9s. 8d., the property of Alfred Ward; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . †— Confined Eighteen Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-255

255. MICHAEL SWEENEY , a marine (23) , Stealing a till, and 6s. in money, the property of Alfred Russell; to which he


CHARLES CARTWRIGHT (Policeman, R 101) stated that he bore a very bad character in the regiment. Confined Eighteen Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-256

256. JOHN HAWKE (21) , Stealing on 19th February, a mare, the property of William Booth.

MR. BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM BOOTH . I am a grocer, living at Sydenham—in the early part of last year I was the owner of a gray mare—I have not got it now-a few weeks ago I gave it back to Mr. Roff, for a trifling matter—he said he could not afford to lose it—I made an arrangement with him—about the middle of January last year I sent the mare to Mr. Seal's, at Burnt Ash Farm—I did not see her again till May, when I saw her at Mr. Roft's stables, at Croydon—I had her from him after that, and subsequently returned her to him—I had her in my possession from May till four or five weeks ago—it was the same mare—I gave 14l. for her.

ZEPHANIAH MARTIN SEAL . I am a farmer at Burnt Ash Farm, Lee, in Kent—refreshing my memory from this book (produced) I can say that I had a gray mare from Mr. Booth on 14th January—I missed her on 20th February—I can speak quite positively to that date—I saw her myself on the 19th in the meadow with other horses, and the following day I received information that she was gone—I went into the meadow, and she was not there.

WILLIAM WINN . I am bailiff to Mr. Seal—I had a gray mare under my charge—I heard the name of the man she came from—I never knew the man—I did not see the mare go—I traced the field round, and found she went out at the gate—the gate was fastened with a wooden plug—I found the gate the same as I left it, with the plug in—I don't think she was an animal that could leap the gate—from the marks I believe that she went out through the gate—I went to Bromley police-station.

Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS. Q. Was there a possibility that she could have leaped the gate? A. I think not—the field is surrounded by a hedge and ditch—it was such a place that a horse could cross—I don't know in what month I missed the mare—I cannot say whether it was is December.

COURT. Q. Were there any marks of the mare having got through the hedge anywhere? A. No; that is what I particularly looked for.

CHARLES WOOD . I live at 10, Howard-street, Wands worth-road, and deal in pigs—early last year, I saw the prisoner in Copenhagen Cattle-market, with a gray mare—he asked me if I would buy it—I said I could not, as I had got one, but I should not mind exchanging with him, as mine was not big enough to do the work—I came to terms with him—I gave him my horse and 25s. for the gray mare—I kept her from three to four weeks, and then sold her to Mr. Roff—I cannot speak to the dates.

Cross-examined. Q. You don't know what month it was in? A. No—I can't say whether it was in January or February—I don't think it was in December—I have seen the prisoner at markets, and fairs, and differed places.

COURT. Q. Was it either in January or February? A. I should not like to say positively—it was not so late as March—I am no scholar—I am pure it was not so late as March, because Mr. Roff bought it of me in March.

MR. BESLEY. Q. After this dealing at Copenhagen Cattle-market, when

did you see the prisoner again? A. Perhaps three or four weeks after, at the same market—at that time I knew the mare was claimed by Mr. Booth—the prisoner was in a public-house, with some more men, and as soon as I went in he saw me—I said, "Here, I want to speak to you"—I went to grapple hold of him, and he got hold of me by the throat—two or three men crossed their hands, and he got to the door and ran away.

MR. MONTAGUE WILLIAMS . Q. Has not the prisoner seen you constantly in Deptford since that, and other places? A. He saw me something like a fortnight or three weeks after I sold the mare to Roff, not since—I have not been drinking with him since that.

MR. BESLEY. Q. How often do you think you saw him? A. I cannot say; perhaps once in a couple of mouths—I never saw him after I knew the mare was stolen, but that once, in the public-house.

THOMAS ROFF . I live at Southend, Croydon, and am a pork-butcher—I bought a gray mare of the last witness, on 14th March, in the Blackfriars-road, for 5l. 15s.—I had the mare in my possession till 8th May, when I gave it up to Mr. Booth—since that, I have bought her back from him.

JOHN THOMAS FOX (Policeman, R 120). In consequence of information I received at Lewisham station, on 8th May, I looked after the prisoner, and did not see him till 12th December—he was then in the Old King's Head, Blackfriars-road—his father and another man were with him—I followed them in the direction of the Old Kent-road—I met a constable in uniform outside the Bricklayer's Arms, and we came in front of them—I said to the prisoner, "Hawke, I want you for horse-stealing," and laid hold of him by the collar—he immediately struck me in the mouth—after a very desperate struggle, I got him, with the assistance of two gentlemen, into a baker's shop—he bit my linger, and called out, "Rouse, rouse, boys!" that means calling on them to rescue him—at the station, he said, "Whose horse is it I am charged with stealing?"—I said, "Mr. Booth's, from Sydenham"—at the railway-station at Lewisham, he said, "As for that Mr. Fox, I can bring twenty witnesses to say that I bought her"—he afterwards asked me who put me on to where he was—he had been missing for some time from our neighbourhood.

Cross-examined. Q. When you took him, did you not have some beer together? A. Yes, we did—we were waiting in the lobby at the station—we had had a severe encounter, and I asked the constable who was with me to have something to drink, as I felt very dry myself, and, I believe, he did too—he went and got some beer, and while we were drinking it the prisoner asked me to treat him with some beer, and I did so from good feeling; nothing more.


The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted, on 7th May, 1861, at Greenwich Police-court, where he was sentenced to two months' imprisonment; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. †—Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-257

257. THOMAS SHEPHERD (33) , Stealing part of a pump, and 12lbs. weight of copper, the property of John Penn.

FRANCIS HOSIER HART . I live in Church-lane, Lee, and am steward to Mr. Penn, of "The Cedars," at Lee—the prisoner was employed there by me, as under gardener—on Monday, 22d December, in consequence of information, I went to a shed in the kitchen garden, and missed part of a copper pump—the handle and trunk were gone, merely leaving the pipe

—I had seen it safe on Thursday the 18th—I gave information to the police.

Prisoner. I asked my master whether I should move the pump, and he said, "Yes;" and I did so. Witness. That was previous to this—while we were building a new shed the prisoner broke this pump in two—he had no leave to take it away.

SAMUEL WELLS . I am employed in Mr. Penn's garden—on Friday, 11th December, I saw the prisoner iii the kitchen-garden, in the act of breaking the handle off a copper pump with a mallet—I went up and said to him, "Shepherd, that does not belong to you"—he said, "You be b—"—I said, "You will get us into trouble"—he said, "Let every tub stand on its own bottom"—I said, "You will have to stand on your's, on this account"—I then went away—I saw him place the handle in his pocket when we went home to dinner; and afterwards, between 2 and 3, I saw him with the trunk of the pump, and the top of it—he took it away by the side of the new shed we were putting up, and there battered it together with a hammer, or something—I afterwards saw him place it under some would to bury it.

Prisoner. Q. Why did you not speak about it when you saw me? A. I spoke about it on the Monday morning, as this happened on the Friday—I did not feel I was doing my employer justice, or myself; but as you had been a mate, and ft man I had worked with more than any man in the place, I did not like to speak against you.

WILLIAM SUKLING . I was employed at Mr. Penn's garden—on 17th December, I saw the prisoner there, carrying the brace of the pump towards the kitchen garden—I afterwards saw him go to the same place, take a portion of the pump, and break it up in the shed.

WILLIAM NISBET (Policeman, R 250). I apprehended the prisoner on 23d December—I told him he was charged on suspicion of stealing part of a copper pump, the property of Mr. J. Penn—he said he knew nothing at all about it.

Prisoner's Defence. I have got nothing to say; I have a character from an old master.

GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-258

258. JESSIE ANN COOPER (36) , Feloniously marrying Charles Drysdale, her husband being then alive.

MARY MILLER . The prisoner is my daughter—I was present when she was married to Thomas Cooper, in 1842, in the parish of Whitechapel—I saw him last when I was examined before the Magistrate—I am sorry to acknowledge him as a son, because he is a very bad man.

Prisoner. Q. You know what a bad husband I have had, and what a cruel son he has been to you? A. Yes.

CHARLES DRYSDALE . I was married to the prisoner on 6th October, 1856—I married her as a widow, which I believed she was, and, I believe, she considered herself as a widow at the time—she has conducted herself with propriety, as a soldier's wife ought to do; and I am happy to say so in her defence.

EDWIN WEBB (Dockyard-policeman, 49). In consequence of some information given to me by the first husband, Thomas Cooper, the man who has been sentenced to penal servitude here to-day (See Fourth Court, Wednesday), I apprehended the prisoner—I told her the charge, and asked her if it was true—she said, "Yes;" but she believed the husband to be dead—I produce both marriage certificates—she gave them to me—(The first of these certified the

marriage of Thomas Cooper and Jessie Ann Miller, at the Pariah of Whitechapel, on 25th September, 1842; and the second, the marriage of Charles Drysdale and Jessie Ann Cooper, at Woolwich, on 6th October, 1856).

The prisoner handed in a written paper, which dated that she was married to Thomas Cooper, on 25th September, 1843, being then sixteen yean of age, and that he was then in the employment of Mr. Evans; that previous to her first confinement she was obliged to return to her parents, he having pawned almost everything, including her clothes and wedding ring; that up to the birth of her third child she only saw him occasionally, and scarcely ever received from him more than 2s. 6d. a week, being supported by her grandmother; that after 1847 he communicated to her a loathsome disease, for which she urns attended by Dr. Lewellen, of Mile-end-road; that after the birth of her fourth child, her husband embezzled 20l., from Mr. Wybrow, soap manufacturer, and had twelve months' imprisonment at the Old Bailey; that when he came out of prison, she, in consequence of his promise of amendment, gave him 100l., a portion of some money left her by her grandmother, to set him up in business; that after he had been engaged in that way about six weeks, he went away, with all the ready cash available, and left her to carry on the business; that he remained away seven weeks, which obliged her to sell of everything at a sacrifice, and close the place; that the day he returned he sold his horse and cart, at the shop door, for half the value, and after selling the horse, he went to the purchaser, borrowed it, and sold it again, fir which offence he had another twelve months imprisonment, at Clerkenwell; that after his release then, he obtained 20l. from her mother: 10l., as a present, and 10l. as a loan, which he promised to pay back at 2s. 6d. per week, but which he never did; that he then got a situation as carmen, at Mr. Charles Smith's, potatoe salesman, Spitalfields Market, and from whose employ he absconded on 4th August, 1854, having embezzled a considerable sum of money; that twelve months after that she heard he was dead, having died of fever, in the Crimea, during the war, and which report she had every reason to believe was circulated by himself, to avoid the punishment which he might have received upon his return to England; that the, having remained two years and two months after his desertion, with a sincere conviction that the report of his death was correct, married Sergeant Drysdale, in october, 1866, and now placed herself at the mercy of the Court.

GUILTY .—The Jury expressed their sincere sympathy towards the prisoner.— Confined Three Days.

Reference Number: t18630105-259

259. CATHERINE WEBB (18) , Stealing 1 shawl, 2 pairs of gloves and 1 jacket, the property of John Bodychan Sparrow, her master.

MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM NISBET (Policeman, R 250). On Monday, 8th December, in consequence of information I received from Mr. Sparrow, I went to 5, Rebecca-place, New-cross, and found the prisoner there, at her father's house—I said to her, "Mr. Sparrow has given me information that he gave you permission to go to the play, and that you went out with Mrs. Sparrow's jacket and page"—she admitted doing so, and commenced crying—I went to the prisoner's sister's house—I got the jacket and page from there—I took the prisoner to the station-house—I asked her if her box was looked, and said I hoped there was nothing in it—she said she did not think it was locked; if so, the key was on the mantel-piece; and if there was anything in her box, it must have been put in by some one else; she did not put them in—I went to the house, and examined the mantel-piece, and then came back to the station—the prisoner was searched by the female searcher, and the key

of her box found in her pocket—this is it (produced)—she said she was not aware the key was in her pocket—I then went back to her mistress's house, and unlocked the box with this key, in the presence of Mrs. Sparrow and the other servants—I found in the box this black lace shawl, two pairs of gloves, a pair of cuffs, a sash of ribbon, and a pocket handkerchief (produced)—the handkerchief was in the prisoner's dress, hanging up behind the door—everything but that was found in the box—I also found a key at the bottom of the box, which locked and unlocked her box, as well as the other one.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did she not tell you that the jacket and page were at her sister's? A. Oh, yes—she never denied having them—it was after I spoke to her about the key, that she said if there was anything in her box, it had been put there by somebody else—I tried the box every way before I put the key in—I found it quite secure—the witness Mockford was present when I searched the box—the prisoner said that if I could not find the key, I might break open the box, or something like that; I cannot say exactly—she never mentioned to me that she had left the jacket with her sister for the purpose of taking it back—I could get very little out of her; she was crying so much; I could not put a line down.

SARAH SPARROW . I am the wife of John Bodychan Sparrow, of No. 1, Melville-place, Lee-road—the prisoner has been in my service four months—on Saturday, 6th December, I obtained leave from my husband to let her go to the theatre—she promised to return that night by the 11 o'clock train—she did not do so—her sister called the following evening, at 5 o'clock—my husband went to church in the morning, and while he was gone I missed the jacket—my husband went to the police-station, and a policeman called the same evening—we did not wish anything done on Sunday evening, and in the meantime her sister came, at 5 o'clock—the policeman went up stairs on Sunday evening with the under nurse, and brought me down word that the box was locked—on Monday he returned with the key—I saw him open the box, and saw some of my property in it—tips is my shawl—I had mined it for quite six weeks before—I have had it two or three years—I have no doubt about its being mine—this ribbon is also mine—I cannot say about these gloves; they might, or might not, be mine—I had spoken to the prisoner and the other servants when I missed this shawl—I asked about it several times—the prisoner had no authority whatever from me to take these things and put them in her box—the shawl was hanging up in a dressing-room, behind the door, before I missed it—the first night the prisoner came to my house there was some difficulty in getting her box open, and I lent her a great many loose keys—I afterwards allowed her to keep one of them—I have never seen it since—she came down, and said she was much obliged to me; she had found one; and I said she might keep it.

Cross-examined. Q. Who had the care of your wardrobe? A. Nobody but myself—the duty of my under nurse is to attend to me and my bed-room, and to put up my things after me—she has somewhat the duties of a lady's maid; she is learning to be a lady's maid—I did not hear from her that the Garibaldi jacket had been lent, certainly not—I heard about the jacket first from Mockford—that was in the course of the Sunday, while my husband was at church—she told me because I said I should send her back to her father if she did not tell me everything she knew about Caroline—her sister came for the purpose of asking me to receive her back—she might have come to ask me to excuse her no return on the Saturday night—she told me she was in bed, which was not true—I told her it was too late; that my husband had already been at the police-office—I have given

my servants articles of dress from time to time, but not to any of the present servants—her box was a common green—painted deal box as far as I could see—I never knew that Mockford and the prisoner had quarrels before she told me—there was a key found in the box, which opened it.

SARAH MOCKFORD . I am under nurse to Mrs. Sparrow—on 6th December I saw the prisoner leave my master's house—she had on her brown dress, her mistress's Garibaldi jacket, a black page, and a black jacket—she did not come back that night—the next morning, after my mistress questioning me, I told her what I had seen.

Cross-examined. Q. You were aware of her borrowing the Garibaldi jacket, were you not; did not something pass between you about it? A. Some days before, she was trying on my mistress's Garibaldi, and she said she should like to wear one of them—I told her she should not wear the red one—that is all—she had the blue on when she went out, but I did not know she was going to wear it—we were generally very good friends—we had sometimes little differences; not very often—I remember throwing some scalding water over her, and she threw two knives at me—those quarrels did not occur frequently; not once a week—I cannot say exactly—only once when knives were thrown—I have had a quarrel with her more than once—I did not know where the key of her box was—I never Saw it on the mantel—piece—she slept in the same bedroom with me—she used to carry the key in her pocket—I have got a deal box of my own in the bedroom—I did not say to any one that my key would fit the prisoner's box—I did not speak to the prisoner's sister about that—I never said that I got the key, and opened it, and got some fruit out of it; nothing of the kind has ever passed—I recollect my mistress asking about her shawl—that was six weeks or two months before this—she asked me—she also asked me about the ribbons—I did not see whether the box was locked or not before the policeman came—I did not go near the box, or make any attempt upon it.

MR. DICKIE. Q. Did you ever have any of those things in your posses—sion? A. Never.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"Those things were not in my box when I left. The pair of cuffs that I am accused of were in my fellow—servant's, Sarah Mock ford's, box on the Thursday, as I went away on the Saturday. I took the Garibaldi jacket and the page. My fellow—servant told me not to take the red jacket, as my mistress would want it in the evening. The policeman asked for the key of my box. I told him he would find it on the mantel—piece, and if not he might break the box. I afterwards gave the key up to the constable, not being aware that it was in my pocket."

MRS. SPARROW (re—examined). I had a very good character with the prisoner—it was a written character for eighteen months.

The prisoner received a good character.


The Jury stated that they did not intend to cad the slightest imputation on Sarah Mockford.

Before Mr. Recorder.


Reference Number: t18630105-260

260. WILLIAM ETTEL (20), was indicted for stealing 1 cwt 3qrs. 22 lbs. of lead, the property of Thomas Howard Ravenhill and others.

HENRY ISSARD . I am in the employ of Thomas Howard Ravenhill, and others, at Rotherhithe—on the morning of 31st October, I discovered that some lead had been removed from the roof of a building there, in consequence of which I gave information to the police, and some one was placed to watch the premises—about half—past 3 in the afternoon, from what I heard, I went to the back part of the building, got on to the roof, and found the lead had been removed three or four feet from where I had first seen it—it was rolled up and placed at the edge of the gutter—it had been detached from the gutter when I first saw it—there was about 1 cwt. 3 qrs. 22 lbs.

JOHN CLARK . I am in the employ of Ravenhill and Co.—on 31st October, I was at work discharging coals from a barge into the coal kilo, and whilst doing so I saw the prisoner on the roof of the building, close to where the lead had been removed—I saw him come from there and go away—I spoke to my foreman—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody one day last week—I am sure he is the person—I was about thirty yards from him.

JOHN TIMOTHY HUGHES (Policeman, M 249). On 31st October, I received information from Clark, but did not succeed in finding the prisoner till 30th December, when I found him at Dockhead—I told him the charge—he said, "You have made a mistake this time."


Reference Number: t18630105-261

261. JAMES SMITH (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling—house of Edwin O'Neil, and stealing 1 loaf, 1 lb. of butter, and other goods, his property; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-262

262. THOMAS BUTLER (37) , Feloniously marrying Ellen Shine, his wife being alive.

MARY COLLINS . I am the wife of John Collins, of 7, Green—bank, Bermondsey—I know the prisoner—I was bridesmaid at his marriage with Honora Driscoll, two years ago last Christmas, at St. Michaels Chapel, by Father Slattery—I made my mark of the time—he lived with her for four or five months afterwards—she is alive, and in court now.

Prisoner. Q. Did she run away from me first, or did I go away from her? A. That I know nothing at all about—she never lived with another man—you were a widower when you married, and she was a widow.

ELLEN SHINE . I married the prisoner at Gravesend—Father Sullivan married us—I had known him about three months—I became acquainted with him at Wapping, and he asked me to marry him—he said he was a single man—he has treated me very well.

THOMAS DONOVAN (Policeman, M 97). I took the prisoner into custody—at first he denied being married to the first wife; but next day, on the way to the station, he said he was married to both; that the first wife was a bad wife to him, and he was very sorry for the second—I produce the certificates, which I have compared with the originals (produced).

Prisoner's Defence. The first wife went away from me with another man. After six months I went out harvesting, and met with Ellen Shine. I throw myself on your mercy.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18630105-263

263. THOMAS AGACE (22) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling—house of William Mitchell, on 14th September, at Lambeth, and stealing 5 table cloths and other goods, his property; having been before convicted of felony, at the Thames Police—court, on 4th January, 1862; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . *— Four Years' Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-264

264. JOHN LOWE (43), MATILDA LOWE (26), and JANE FRANCIS (32) , Feloniously having in their possession a mould for making, counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMBS BRANNAN . I was formerly an inspector of the G division of police, and am now frequently employed by the Mint—on 15th December, about 8 in the morning, I went to 27, Union—street, Lambeth—walk, with two or three inspectors and four or five sergeants—the house door was shut—we forced it open, and saw the male prisoner come from the back yard in his shirt—sleeves—Sergeant Leather took him in custody, and he was taken into the back room, where the female prisoners were—(there are two rooms on the ground floor)—I asked him what part of the house he occupied—he said, "These two rooms," meaning the front and back parlours—we then com menced searching—I saw a parcel on a ledge in a little coal cupboard in the ground floor passage under the stairs—I called one of the officers to take it out—Sergeant Elliott handed it to me—it was this parcel (produced), wrapped up in this rag—I opened it—it contained two doable plaister of Paris moulds, each for malting shillings—I showed them to the prisoners—they said nothing—another packet was handed to me—I did not see it found—it contained twenty counterfeit sovereigns and a blank counter—Inspector Brannan also handed me six counterfeit sixpences—I requested Inspector Young to bring the male prisoner into the front parlour, so that he should be present at the search—he did so, and Sergeant Elliott searched a china ornament on the mantelshelf, and found a little paper packet containing four counterfeit half—sovereigns, separately wrapped up in paper—I then asked Inspector Young whether he had searched the male prisoner, and the male prisoner pat his hand in his pocket and took out a sovereign, a florin, 2s. and a penny, all good—I looked at the florin, and said, "That florin has been in plaster"—he made no reply, but, when the half—sovereigns were produced, be said, "It has nothing to do with me"—in the packet produced by Ser geant Brannan was a florin and four shillings in good money, all of which have been in plaister—that was the parcel where the twenty sovereigns were—the prisoners were taken to the station in cabs, where the male prisoner said to Matilda Love, the prisoner with the child, "Do not you know any thing about it," to which she replied, "All right"——while watching the plate I frequently saw the prisoner Francis go in and out—the prisoners have been under occasional observation for years, but on the last occasion two months—we searched other parts of the house, and found a small portion of plaister of Paris in a bag, and a piece of glass in a cupboard in the back room with plaister of Paris on it—it is necessary in making moulds to have a smooth flat surface, and they generally have glass or a smooth marble slab—there were other persons lodging in the house—I searched it, but found nothing up stairs—the cupboard under the stairs was not locked.

Cross-examined by MR. OPPENHEIM. Q. Did you knock at the door? A. No; I and eight men broke into the house, and were rather rude in our proceedings—there was no lock on the cupboard; any person going up stairs could have access to it—when I found the class of persons who lived up stairs, I did not upset their rooms by searching them—I called the

male prisoner Croft, but his proper name is M'Claren—I said that I had received instructions from the solicitor to the Mint, to endeavour to put an end to his extensive dealings in counterfeit coin—ray son took the halfsovereigns out of a horn or vase, on the mantle—piece, but I did not see him—there was a small portion of coal in the cupboard—Matilda Lowe was taken very ill, and I allowed her to have one of the good shillings, to send out for a little brandy—I have the other in my pocket—I believe these four shillings, and the florin, have been in plaster—I found no counterfeit shillings on the prisoners, nor were any given to me.

EDWARD YOUNG (Police—inspector, L). I accompanied the other officers—I first saw Francis in the back room, with a tea—pot in her hand; the other woman was brought in afterwards, from the front room, partly dressed—I was about to search John Lowe, when he took from his pocket a sovereign, a florin, 2s. and a penny, and gave them to Mr. Brannan—when the search was made in the front room, I saw Elliott come with some counterfeit sovereigns, which he had found—John Lowe said that he knew nothing about them—Francis went to a box and took out some linen, which she wanted to put on, but said that she should not strip in front of men—I told her that it was unnecessary, she had only to put on a bonnet and shawl, which she did, and the linen was taken to the station.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. How many children were then in the front room? A. Two; the baby was in the back room, on the bad—I saw four children altogether—Francis told me that she did not live there—there were two full—sized beds in the back room, and one in the front—I do not know whether they have been allowed to change their linen; they are not allowed to do so while in the custody of the police—I do not know where the linen is now, as they took it to Horsemonger—lane, and I do not know what became of it afterwards.

JAMES BRANNAN (Police—inspector, F.) I went to the house, and found in a cupboard, under the stairs, a brown paper parcel, containing twenty counterfeit sovereigns, and a brass counter, and a good florin, and four good shillings, all of which had marks of plaster on them, as if they had been used for moulds—I took them into the front parlour, showed them to the male prisoner, and told him I had found them very cleverly hidden in a cupboard, under the stair—case—he said I know nothing about them—I then went into the back parlour, where the female prisoners were, and in a horn on the mantel—piece, I found six counterfeit sixpences, separately wrapped in paper—I showed them to the female prisoners, and said, "Why you are hiding this money in all parts of this house"—Matilda Lowe said, "God, help us"—I took them into the front parlour, and showed them to John Lowe—he said, "I know nothing about them"—I gave them to Mr. Young, and afterwards to Mr. Brannan.

Cross-examined by MR. OPPENHEIM. Q. Have you got the horn in which you found the sixpences? A. Yes (produced)—I had great trouble in getting them out, but I expected that.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Police—sergeant, G 13). I assisted at the search, and found in a cupboard, under the stairs, two double plaister of Paris moulds, in a piece of rag, each adapted for casting shillings, on a cross beam, under the staircase—I gave them to Mr. Brannan—I found four half-sovereigns in a small chimney ornament on the front room mantel—piece, wrapped up separately in tissue paper; also a small portion of plaister of Paris, and this piece of glass, with plaister adhering to it, in a drawer in the back room, where the children were.

cross—examined by MR. OPPENTHEIM. Q. Did you show the moulds to the prisoners? A. I gave them to Brannan, and went With him to show them to the prisoners in the front—room—this piece of glass has been locked up in a drawer at Mr. Brannan's, and kept as it is now, with the planter on it.

CHARLOTTE BEDWELL . I am a widow, of 28, Union—street, Lambeth—walk—I also rent No. 27, next door—on the ground floor, of which are two rooms and a cupboard under the staircase, which I let to the male prisoner and the woman next him, early in September, 1861, in the name of Croft—Francis did not come with them, but she has been residing there three or four months—the other parts of the house were let separately, to other people.

Cross-examined by MR. OPPENHBIM. Q. With whom did you make the arrangement? A. With Mr. Croft—I did not tell her that they were to hare the use of the coal cupboard expressly—I cannot say that I let it to any one—it had no lock or key—there were four tenants living in the house at the time the prisoners were arrested—there were two single women and two men and their wives; there was a little boy in the top front-room—they all had keys of the front door—they had not to pass that door in going up to their rooms, but they had in going to the yard.

Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Have they always gone by the name of Mr. and Mrs. Croft? A. Yes—the baby is nearly four months old—I have a tenant at 27, named Mary Ann White—I heard her examined at the Police—office—I know East—street, it runs along the back of Union-street—I know the Edward's by their visiting the Crofts—I presume that Francis did not live with the Ed ward's because she lived with Mr. and Mrs. Croft—I cannot swear that she did not live at Edward's—I do not sleep at No. 27—I cannot, of my own knowledge, swear that Francis ever slept there—I have heard that she goes out charring, and as a laundress—I have heard her through the wall talking to the children, the baby particularly, and have seen her washing there.

MR. POLAND. Q. How came you to say that Francis lived there? A. Because I frequently heard her talking to the baby between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning—I do not recollect whether I showed the cupboard to Mrs. Croft when they took the rooms.

COURT. Q. Do you know who used the cupboard? A. It is for the use of the parlours, and I know that the prisoners did use it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are two double moulds for making shillings; the first is for making a shilling of 1816 and one of 1853, the other is for two shillings, both of 1652—these four good shillings all appear to have been in plaister of Paris, and they are the patterns for these two double moulds; here are marks on them which are conveyed to the moulds, indented on the shillings, and raised on the moulds—these twenty counterfeit sovereigns are made of brass, and struck from a die; they are all unfinished—these are four counterfeit half—sovereigns, of 1853, all from one mould; they have been cast, and are made in the ordinary light metal—here are six sixpences, four of 1855, from the same mould, and two of 1859, from the same mould—these moulds, for shillings, appear to have been used but only a very little; they are made of plaister of Paris, and these are the shillings used in making them—this is plaister of Paris in the bag, and this glass has plaister of Paris adhering to it—it is used to make moulds on, for the sake of its smooth surface.

Cross-examined by MR. OPPENHEIM. Q. Can you swear that the moulds

have been used for making shillings? A. Yes—these counterfeit sovereigns are not similar to the counters sold in the streets—here is a blank for a half—crown, which is evidently intended to be put into a die to make a sovereign.

MR. THOMPSON contended that there was no evidence that Francis ever lived in the house, but only that she came there at 7 or 8 in the morning, after the birth of the child; and that as to Matilda Lowe, she came under the description of a married woman, having lived in the house fifteen months as such, with her four children.

MR. POLAND submitted that unless the marriage certificate was produced, it was a question for the Jury. THE COURT considered that Matilda. Lowe ought to stand excused as the wife of the male prisoner. MR. OPPENHEIM contended that possession of the moulds was not proved, as the coal closet was used by other persons. THE COURT considered that it was a question fir the Jury.


WILLIAM PEER LUCAS . I am a licensed victualler, of 114, Regent—street, Lambeth—I have known John Lowe five years—he has always borne an honest character as far as I know—he was a greengrocer, close to my house for a year and a half or two years, but has been out of that house twelve months, since when he has been dealing in horses and pigs.

Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. Where is the shop? A. In East——street, Lambeth; the next street to mine—he kept the shop in the name of Croft—I never knew him by any other name—when he gave up the shop, twelve months ago, he went to live in Union—street—I never visited him there, but he used to visit me, as I keep a public—house—I never heard of his name being M'Claren, or that he was charged with stealing rope, let out on bail, and never surrendered—I first knew him when he was living in East—street, somewhere about five years ago—I have seen him attending sales at the Horse repositories, in Barbican and St. Martin's—lane, several times—I deal in horses sometimes—I never knew him by the name of Lowe—I do not know a person named Crawford.

MOSES FAULKNER . I am a smith and farrier, of Caroline—street, Prince's-road—I have known John Lowe about five years, as a greengrocer—I used to shoe his horse—I never heard anything against his honesty.

Cross-examined. Q. How far is your place from Union-street? A. About a stone's throw—I used to visit him—I know him in the name of Croft, never as M'Claren—I never heard that there was a true bill found against him for stealing rope—I never heard anything against him in my life.

JOHN LOWE— GUILTY .—Mr. Brannan stated, that the male prisoner was first brought under the notice of the Mint authorities twelve years ago, since when the officers had been always looking for him, but never able to take him, through his frequent change of name; that he was in the habit of sending counterfeit coin into the country, and that it was impossible to give an idea of what mischief he had done.

Ten Years' Penal servitude.


Reference Number: t18630105-265

265. KARL ANDERS (24) , Stealing 2 shirts, the property of Ann Cooper; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.

There was another indictment against the prisoner.

Before Mr. Justice Keating.

Reference Number: t18630105-266

266. WILLIAM COLLIER (34) , Unlawfully attempting to kill murder himself; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined One Month.

Reference Number: t18630105-267

MR. DALEY conducted the Prosecution.

MART ELIZABETH COLLIER . I was fifteen years old on 17th October—I am the prisoner's wife—we were married on 3d November—my mother and the prisoner were living together for some six months before our marriage—I lived with him in Pleasant—place until Sunday evening, 17th November—my mother lived in the same house—on 17th November, I told the prisoner that I did not want to live with him, I would sooner go to service, as he had used such beastly language to me—he said nothing to that, but about half an hour or an hour afterwards, he called me a filthy dirty word, and threatened to push my head through the wall, but my father prevented it—he was living in the house too—I did not sleep with the prisoner, or go into his room, that night after he said that—he came out, locked the door, and took the key out—next morning, he and my mother went out together early—he came back first, and my mother afterwards at about half—past 11—I was then in my father's room with my little sister, about ten, and my brother, about five years old—the prisoner rushed up stairs, took me by the throat with one hand, and pushed me on the floor—he then got me by both hands round my throat, and kept knocking my bead on to the floor, saying that he would murder me—Frank Fielder came in and took the prisoner off me, and then I managed to get up, and run down stairs—my throat was all black, and there were two lumps on each side.

Cross-examined by MR. WILLIAMS. Q. Ton say that at the time you married the prisoner you were aware that he had been living with your mother? A. Yes; on the Thursday after this he cut his throat, and then I first preferred a charge of his having attempted my life—I waited for my aunt to go with me—I went to Chatham afterwards, and she came up from Chatham with me—I told a policeman, on the Monday, that the prisoner had attempted my life, but they said that it was only a quarrel, and they could not take him—my father and mother were not present, but they came up afterwards—I told my father that my life was attempted—he was not in the room at the time—he was out—he did not send for a policeman—I brought the charge against the prisoner three days afterwards, the day after he cut his throat, when he was in the hospital—he remained there for three weeks—the first time I made a charge against him was not when he was brought before the Magistrate from the hospital on a charge of committing suicide—it was before then that I went to Mr. Elliott, the Magistrate, who told me to go to the inspector—I had had a conversation with my aunts previous to that—I have been living with them at Chatham ever since—my aunt did not persuade me to prefer the charge, she had nothing to do with it—she said that if I wanted to go to the Magistrate I had better go, she would not say anything about it—I went to my fether and mother on the Saturday—I had no conversation then with them about bringing this serious charge against my husband—I went to the hospital while ray husband was there, but it was not visiting day—it was Friday—my mother said that it would be the worse for me if I did not go, but I knew that they would not let us in—I had never before threatened my husband that I would not live with him any longer.

COURT. Q. Had he ever behaved ill to you before this Saturday or Sunday? A. He had used filthy dirty language to me, but never struck me—I went over to Dr. Wakeham, of West—square, not about my throat, because

I had it simply wrapped up in flannel, but to ask him whether I had better go and ask the Magistrate when it would be time to appear.

FRANK FIELDER . I live with my father, who keeps the house 48, Pleasant—place—the prisoner lodged there—he came home on the morning of this occurrence at half—past 11—I opened the door to him, and he went as fast as he possibly could up stairs—his mother came to the door as I was closing it, and asked me to go up stairs—I heard no blows, but I heard the prosecutrix scream—I went up, and found the prisoner on the floor holding the prosecutrix by the throat with both hands—she was black in the face, and her eyes were starting out of her head—I seized him, and dragged him off—he struggled to get to her again, and said that he would murder her—when I let go of him he said that he was much obliged to me, for if I had not taken him off he certainly should have murdered her—she had got out of the room then—he was not so drunk but what he knew what he was about.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you reside in the same house? A. Yes; at that time—I know the prisoner well—he had been drinking—when he is sober he is most mild and inoffensive—I never saw him attempt any violence to anybody when he was sober—the prosecutrix's father went and got a policeman—I do not think her father is here—I was there when the policeman came—he said it was a family affair, and refused to take the prisoner—I was there two days afterwards, and saw the prisoner a few minutes after he had cut his throat.

HARRIETTE BRADY . I am the prosecutrix's aunt, and am the wife of John Brady, of Chatham—my niece sent a note to me, and I went up to her and took her to Chatham two or three days after this—she was ill for a fortnight, and could not eat anything but spoon victuals for three weeks.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you send for a doctor? A. No; I have not seen the mother for two years—I do not like her conduct—I have never been here before, or in any court.

The prisoner received a good character.

THE JURY inquired whether they could qualify their verdict. THE COURT replied that they could not, but that their verdict must be simply guilty or not guilty.


Reference Number: t18630105-268

267. WILLIAM COLLIER was again indicted for feloniously attempting to strangle Mary Elizabeth Collier, with intent to murder her.

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eight Months, to commence at the termination of the former sentence , and to enter into his own recognizances in 50l. and tow sureties in 10l. each to keep the peace towards his wife for one year, and to be further imprisoned until such sureties are obtained, but such imprisonment not to exceed one year.

Reference Number: t18630105-269

269. FREDERICK WOONTON (24) , Feloniously killing and slaying Henry Polley; he was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE STEBBINGS (Policeman, P 187). On Monday afternoon, 22d December, about half—past 5 o'clock, I was on duty in the Kennington-road, and saw the prisoner driving a cab from London towards the Horns Tavern, at the rate of about ten miles an hour, on his wrong side: the off side—he turned round the corner at the same rate—there is a paved crossing there for foot passengers—he crossed over that sharp against the kerb—the deceased lad was stepping off the kerb with a basket of grocery on his head,

at the moment the horse struck him, knocked him down, and the cab passed over him, quite rolling him over—I did not see the wheel go over him, but the cab passed over him between the wheels, and from the lowness of the wheels it doubled him up—I cannot say whether the horse trod on him—the prisoner continued at the same speed, and I followed, overtook him, and asked him if he was aware he had run over a lad—he said, "D—and b—r the b—y lad; why did not he get out of the way"—I then observed that he was the worse for drink—I made him go back—the lad was lying on the crossing, bleeding from the face—I picked him up, and put him into, the prisoner's cab—I then got in myself and told the prisoner to drive on to St. Thomas's Hospital—he refused to do so though I asked him three times as I was sitting in the cab—I was obliged to put the lad into another cab, with the waterman, to go to the hospital, and I took the prisoner to the station—he appeared quite capable of driving, and could stand very well, but he had been drinking—he was very violent, and was arguing with the people who got round the spot—I went to the hospital the same night, and saw the lad—he gave me his name and address—his face was covered with blood, but I could not see where the wound was.

Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY Q. Did he also say that it was his fault that he was run over? A. No; I did not hear him say that it was not the driver's fault—the cab was on its wrong side on the Kennington-road previous to coming to the Horns—the accident happened on the crossing, close to the kerb of the pavement of the Horns Tavern—the cab crossed over the crossing to go down the Westminster-road, on its wrong side—it took the corner too sharply—there is room for three cabs to pass between the cab rank and the kerb, and he was close to the kerb—there ought to have been sufficient space for another vehicle to pass—he was close to the kerb all the way I saw him—I did not notice the boy till the horse struck him—the cab was actually making the turning at the same time that the boy stepped off—the cab and the boy came to the corner at the same time, and just as he was stepping off the kerb it happened—I saw the cab forty or fifty yards before it came up, and it had run about the same distance before I stopped it—I can say that he was driving at greater speed than five miles an hour—I have timed the speed at which cabs travel, but I have not driven them—this was a four-wheeled cab, and a very good horse—I would not say that it was going at less than ten miles an hour—it was certainly more than six miles—I was on the opposite side, against the park palings when the boy was knocked down, and I then ran, with other people, forty or fifty yards down the Westminster-road—I believe the prisoner was as capable of driving as if he had been sober—he got off his cab when he came back to where the lad was—after he refused to drive, a person got on the cab to do so—the prisoner did not call out as soon as he saw an attempt on the part of the boy to step off the pavement—I do not think he saw the boy till the horse struck him—it was all in a moment.

MR. PLATT Q. you say that there was room for three cabs, supposing he had kept where he ought, on the left hand side, was there ample room for him to have escaped the boy? A. Yes—he did not attempt to pull up until he was pursued—he drove on forty or fifty yards.

SAMUEL SELBY . I was walking home to Clapham on this evening, close to the deceased, on the same side—I saw a cab driving very fast from the corner; nearly ten miles an hour, I should think, and supposing some accident had happened, I ran after the cab, and met Mr. Stebbing coming back it—it went round the corner very last, decidedly faster than it ought,

and the off wheels went on the kerb on the off side of the cab, which made it rock—the wheels actually went on the footway after he turned the corner—I saw the lad put into the cab—the prisoner did not assist in any way—another man was getting up on the box, who said that if the prisoner would not drive he would, but the prisoner seized hold of the reins to prevent him driving—the boy was taken away in another cab—the prisoner was a little in drink, but perfectly able to stand.

Cross-examined. Q. In what direction were you walking? A. From the City towards Clapham on the Horns side—I did not see the boy knocked down—the cab had proceeded twenty or thirty yards from the foot crossing, before the wheels went on the pavement—the foot pavement is about fifteen feet wide there; about the width of the jury-box, or perhaps not so wide—I do not think the kerbstone in very low at that point—I think the foot pavement is all flags, I pass over it every day—I will swear that the kerb is more than three inches high from the gutter—the road was not undergoing repair to my knowledge—I cannot Bay whether there were or were not any rough Macadamized stones twenty yards from the crossing.

ANN POLLEY . I am a widow of 4, Park-place, Brixton, and am the mother of the deceased; his name was Henry—he was eighteen years old, and was in the service of Walters and Co, grocers—he went out quite well on Monday, 22d December—I did not see him again till Wednesday morning, when I went to St. Thomas's Hospital, and found him lying dead there.

HENRY GORDON SHEE . I am one of the house-surgeons of St. Thomas's Hospital—the deceased was brought there on 22d December, suffering considerably from a shock—there was no fracture to be detected outwardly—the skin of his right eye was just torn off, and there was blood about his fact, which appeared to have come from his nose—I attended him with another medical gentleman, until the evening of the next day, when he died—I made a post mortem examination on the 24th—the small intestines were ruptured, and there was also a small rupture of the liver—all the other organs were healthy—these injuries were quite sufficient to cause death—I have heard the evidence—in my opinion those injuries were likely to be inflicted by being knocked down in the way described.

The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "What the policeman has said is false; the horse could not go above six or seven miles an hour. The boy was right in the road. I was going very steady, about six or seven miles an hour. I had not got to the crossing. I was nowhere near the crossing, and when the boy fell down I stopped and got off the cab. He was put into my cab, and I was going to take him to the hospital, when a man came and pushed me off the wheel as I was getting up, and said I was drunk and not fit to drive, and he would drive. I took the reins and said he should not, and while we were talking about it he was taken out of my cab and put into another cab. I hallooed two or three times to the boy. I did all I could to pull the horse off. I was very sorry, indeed, of course I did not run over the boy for the purpose. I went next day to the hospital and saw the boy. I said, "You must have heard me holloa." He said, "I did; it was not your fault." He said he had been up two nights at work at his shop. I was not drunk. I had just come from changing horses, it was a pure accident.

Witnesses for the Defence.

ALBERT TOWN . I am a cab-driver, and know the prisoner—I went with him to St. Thomas's hospital on Tuesday, the day after the accident, and

heard him ask the deceased whether he was hurt, or if he was in much pain, and he said that he was very sorry for what had occurred—the deceased said that it was no fault of his, that he heard him halloa while he was in the act of stepping off the kerb, and could not recover himself to get back, and the horse knocked him down—I have known the prisoner six years, and never knew any inhumanity in him—he has not been a cabman all that time.

Cross-examined. Q. The boy died shortly after you saw him, did he not? A. I saw him in the middle of the day, and he died in the evening—he was not in a very weak state—I saw him move out of bed and go back again.

JOHN DAVIS . I am the owner of the horse and cab which the prisoner was driving—I have had the horse two or three years, and have occasionally driven him myself—the greatest speed at which he can possibly go, is six or seven miles an hour—I do not think he can go eight or ten miles an hour—the prisoner has driven for me seven or eight months—his character is exceedingly good for humanity and sobriety—I did not see him go out on the evening, but I saw him at the station after the accident, he was then perfectly sober.

Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you drive pretty gently to take care of your horse? A. I do—I do not know how other people flog him to make him go.

CHARLES BOWYEB . I hold a cab license now—I have been driving for Dr. Highlett—I was crossing from the Park rails towards the urinal in front of the front horse on the Horns rank, and saw a cab coming along the road—as I looked round, he turned the corner and hallooed, and I saw the youth fall—as he fell, he doubled up, and the cab seemed to go over him, with him under the body of it, between the wheels—I was not aware that he was hurt, and did not go to his assistance, I went about my own business—it was the prisoner who called out, and the deceased fell momentarily—the calling out was before he actually fell; it was a very dark night—I did not notice the boy before, he stepped off the pavement—he had a basket on his head or shoulder—there are gas lamps on the urinal, and on the pavement—I have known the prisoner about five months—his character for humanity is good, and I have never seen him the worse for liquor.

COURT. Q. When you saw him coming down the road, was he on the near side or the off side? A. He was nearer the off side than the near, and turned on the wrong side, but everything coming up the road, turns at that corner, there being a parting in the road.

GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18630105-270

270. HENRY TYNDALL (19) , Robbery with violence on Elizabeth Bowers, and stealing from her person 4s., her money.

MR. SMITH conducted the Prosecution.

ELIZABETH BOWERS . I am the wife of George Bowers, of 36, Herbert's buildings, Waterloo-road—one night in December, between three and five minutes past 12, I was walking down Waterloo-road with my husband and Mary Ann Trybeck, coming from market—three persons accosted us—the prisoner was one of them—he said to my husband, "If you hit that woman, I shall hit you"—my husband asked him what woman he meant—he said, "That girl coming down the road," and he pointed to some girl coming down the road—my husband asked him what he meant, and he said if my husband hit that woman he should hit him—I said, "Mate, you are labouring under a great mistake, no one was interfering with that woman or with you"—he told me to mind my own business, and used improper language

—I told him it was my business, and he hit my husband a violent blow—it out his eye open—he hit me in my eye and blacked it; it was a violent blow—he did not knock us down—after I came out from the crowd I missed 4s.—a great crowd collected—when the prisoner hit me in the eye, another person who was with the prisoner, hit my husband too—the other seemed to be acting in concert—I had blows from several of them round—the 4s. was loose in my gown pocket—I am confident the prisoner is the man—I have no doubt in the least about it.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me steal the money? A. No; I say you might have done so—when you were accused of taking the money, I said I did not know whether it was you who stole it or not—I did not say I did not want to charge you—the money was safe not three minutes before I sit you—I missed it about five or ten minutes after I got out of the crowdthere was not much of a crowd when the policeman was there; they had gone away.

COURT. Q. How soon did you see the prisoner again? A. Not till he was in the station-house on the Sunday night—this was on Saturday night—I had never seen him before in my life—when I saw him at the station he was with one other man, who was taken with him—after I got two or three blows I was rather confused.

GEORGE BOWERS . I am the husband of the last witness—I was with her and Mary Ann Trybeck—we met the prisoner and another man standing against the wall by the Victoria Theatre—I said nothing to them, but the prisoner said to me, "What girl did you hit"—I turned round and said, "You are making a mistake, we are not talking about you; you are labouring under a great mistake altogether," with that I had a blow in my eye, and before I could recover myself, I had another, which knocked me on to my knees—on getting up to run after a policeman, I saw Tyndall strike my wife—when I came back with a policeman, he and the other man had gone—my wife had a black eye and her mouth was cut—there was a lamp opposite—there was sufficient light for me to see the prisoner's features—I knew him directly I saw him again—I am quite sure he is the man who struck me and my wife—I had seen him before.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me attempt to steal your wife's money? A. I did not see anything that was done, or where she was, because I ran for a policeman.

MARY ANN TRYBECK . I was with the two previous witnesses on the night in question, we met the prisoner and another young gentleman—I have not seen him since—neither of the persons with me said a word to the prisoner—he said to Mr. Bowers, "You will not hit that girl"—Mr. Bower's said, "What girl?"—he said, "That girl going down there"—Mr. Bowers said, "I was not going to hit any girl," and Mrs. Bowers said, "You are labouring under a great mistake"—he said, "No, I am not," making use of improper language—he then hit Mr. and Mrs. Bowers—I turned round to look for a policeman, but could not see one—when I came back I did not see either of them, but I saw a female hit Mrs. Bowers in the mouth—I was not hit—the prisoner is the man who struck Mr. and Mrs. Bowers—I am quit sure of him.

HENRY BARRETT (Police-sergeant, L 16), I apprehended the prisoner—he said he knew nothing at all about it.

Prisoner's Defence. I was standing at the Victoria against the wall, talking to a young man and a young woman, and Mr. Bowers made the remark "There is a W—belonging to a thief." I said, "George, you ought to know

better than make such a remark as that, it does you no good and does her no harm." He then called me a b—thief, and I hit him; his wife also called me a thief, but I don't know that I struck her too.

GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Woolwich Police-court, on 9th November, 1858, in the name of Henry Amery ; to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. **— Four Year's penal servitude.

Before Mr. Common Serjeant.

Reference Number: t18630105-271

271. LOUIS GOVER (40) , feloniously having in his possession 2 galvanic batteries for the making of counterfeit coin.

MESSERS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

JAMES BRANNAN . I live at 39, Radnor-street, and am employed by the Mint—on 6th December I; went to 2, Leslie's-gardens, Bermondsey about 8 o'clock in the morning, with Inspectors Fife and Brannan, and Sergeants Leather, Elliott, and Raymond—I found the street door shut and locked—it was forced open, and I immediately proceeded to the second floor—on the way up stairs, before I got to the second floor, there was this flap-door, which I produce—it was on the landing; it covered the well of the stairs completely—when I went up the flap was thrown open—I went into a top room on the second floor—the house consists of three rooms, one over the other—there was a little boy there in bed—the prisoner was not in that room—there was a fireplace in it; the fire was not alight—I found there this ladle with white metal in it, and this pad on it—the lead is in the ladle now as I found it—this ladle was also close to it, with some portion of dregs of metal in it, which had also been melted—on the table I found three files, with white metal in their teeth, a cup with sand and water in it, and a basin with sand and water in it, some brushes, and by the table close to the fire two galvanic batteries (produced,) charged with acid solution, with wires attached to them, and several pieces of small wire which had also been dipped in solution—close to that I found a bag containing plaster of Paris in powder, some sand, some slips of paper out and some uncut—under the stove, in the cinders, I found a quantity of metal, and I also found several bottles containing acid, three iron clamps, and a tin band with plaster of Paris in it, as it now appears—it is used for making a mould—when the plaster is in a fluid state, it is poured on to it—I also found this glass with plaster of Paris on it; the clamps are used for holding the mould while the plaster of Paris is poured in—I also found on the table a piece of antimony and a get, that forms the channel of the mould when the metal is poured in—this is the metal which remains in the channel; it overflows—I found several pieces of silver leaf, and a quantity of copper wire about the place, an iron spoon with plaster on it, and the bottom of a bottle with a little composition on it, which is used for scouring the coin, to give it a dull appearance, to make it appear as if it had been in circulation—all the things that I found are materials and implements which can be used in the false making of coin—I found every requisite there for that purpose, except the mould—after finding all these things, I went down stairs, and found the prisoner in the custody of Sergeant Leather—I called the prisoner by name, and said I had received instructions from the solicitor to the Mint to endeavour to put a stop to his coining, and his extensive dealings in counterfeit coin—he made no answer to that—I said, "Do you occupy the house?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Do you occupy the room above?"—he said, "Yes, my little boy is in bed there"—that was the room where I found

these things—I then showed him the things, and said they were coining implements—he said, "Yon are very clever, Mr. Brannan, they are not coining instruments"—I then showed him the get, and said, "What do you call this?" and he made no reply—nothing was said about a plumb till afterwards at the police-station—I believe he adopted the word from some one else—he was taken to the station—there was no name on the house or the door; it is in a secluded place, nearly opposite the Congregational Church, leading into the market-gardens—I believe respectable parties would be frightened to go down there unprotected—there was no appearance at all of a business of electro-plating in the house.

Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you find say false or counterfeit coin? A. No; the flap was up on my arrival—if it had been down, fifty like me would have been powerless—I never saw one of these before (a card)—on my oath I never did—I know a little about the process of electroplating—I have seen small metal vessels being electro-plated, a teapot and handles of vessels, and such things—it is done by means of a galvanic battery such as this.

THOMAS LEATHER (Police-sergeant G 6). I went with Brannan and the other constables to this house—I followed Brannan up to the first floor, and went into the room, there I saw the prisoner run to the window, shove it up, and he was about getting out—I laid hold of bin and dragged him back—he said, "Ok, dear, I thought I bad got out of the old b—s way, I never thought he would have found me out down here"—he then said, "So help me God, I have not been making these two or three days, for I wag informed he intended paying me a visit; it is a fortunate job for me that you came so early this morning; had you been a little later you would have bid me to rights. You will find enough to get me committed for trial, I dare say, but I shall be turned up"—I believe the meaning of "turned up "is acquitted—something was said about the trap—he said, "Had you come a little later you would have had me to rights. It would have taken you all your time to get up"—there were three children in the room, and he said, God help his children, they could not help his roguery; one of them is blind—I found one good shilling on the floor and seven in his pocket.

Cross-examined. Q. How far did he get out of window? A. His head was partly out, he had no chance of getting any further—I said nothing to him before he made the statement which I have repeated—I was in the room about an hour with him—he said it without the least suggestion on my part—I knew nothing of what was taking place up stairs, or what was found there—Sergeant Elliott was in the room; he was near enough to hear the statement the prisoner made—the room is not large—I was in plain clothes.

ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, G 13). I went with Brannan and the other officers to the prisoner's house on 6th December—I first went up to the top room with Brannan—I went into the room to Leather, after hearing him call for assistance; I found him struggling with the prisoner—the prisoner said, "Oh, dear, I did not think the old b would have found me out down here; but, so help me God, I have not been making these two or three days. No doubt you will find enough up there to commit me, but I shall be turned up. It would have taken you all your time to get up"—he was very violent, and I had to put a pair of handcuffs on him.

Cross-examined. Q. How long were you there? A. About a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I left after I had put the handcuffs on, leaving instructions with Leather to take care of him—he was quiet then.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Mint, and have been so for many years—counterfeit coin is invariably electro-plated before it is sent into circulation—here are batteries, acids, antimony, sand, a frame for making a mould, tins for holding a mould, and a ladle for melting metal, with metal in it—this get has been attached to a coin, and, most likely, to a shilling—when coin it removed from the mould, it is usual to file it, to take away the mark of the get; but at the present time they make it almost perfect, and the file is less used than it was formerly, on account of the formation of the mould—the nurling is more complete—the only thing wanting here is the mould—there is plaster of Paris in this basin, and a piece of glass, for the purpose of putting it on—here are files for finishing the coin, with metal in the teeth—then comes the finishing part of it, the battery coating it with silver, and then the sand to clean the coins—this is the sort of battery which is used for coating counterfeit coin—it could be used by an electro-plater, but it would be on a very small scale—the antimony is used to mix with the other metal to make the coin sound better—there are some strips of paper here, which may be Used for wrapping the coin up. in when it is made—there is plenty of silver leaf, which is put into the battery, and the action of the battery puts the silver on to the coin—the sand is used to take away the brightness after it is completed—sometimes they put on grease, or black stuff—there is here a little pot containing grease for that purpose.

Cross-examined. Q. Which is the end of the get attached to the coin. A. The small end—there may be some cyanide of silver here; there is a solution of sulphuric acid—cyanide of potassium is not at all necessary, but it is sometimes used—sulphuric acid is used for the battery.

GUILTY .— Five Year's Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18630105-272

272. JOHN HODGE (39), and LOUISA SARAH ANN HODGE (14) , Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin; to which John Hodge.

PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.

MR. POLAND, for the prosecution, offered no evidence against Louisa Hodge, as there was no doubt she was acting under her father's (John Hodge's) direction.


Reference Number: t18630105-273

273. WALTER EVANS (30) , Unlawfully soliciting James Blackwell to commit—Second Count, For a common assault. THE COURT considered that the First Count was not good in law, and MR. DICKIE, for the prosecution proceeded upon the Second Count only. MR. LEWIS defended the prisoner



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