CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT
CUBITT, MAYOR—SECOND MAYORALTY.
SIXTH SESSION, HELD APRIL 7TH, 1862.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY
Short-hand Writters to the Court.
ROLLS CHAMBERS, No. 89, CHANCERY LANE.
THE POINTS OF LAW AND PRACTICE,
REVISED AND EDITED BY
OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BARRISTER-AT-LAW.
BUTTERWORTHS, 7, FLEET STREET,
Law Publishers to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.
On the Queen's Commission of
OYER AND TERMINER AND GAOL DELIVERY,
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, April 7th, 1862, and following days.
BEFORE the Right Hon. WILLIAM CUBITT , Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir Edward Vaughan Williams, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majetty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir James Wilde, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir John Mellor, Knt., one of the Justice of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; William Tayler Copeland, Esq., M.P.; Sir John Musgrove, Bart; Sir Robert Walter Garden, Knt., Alderman of the said City; Russell Gurney, Esq., Q.C. Recorder of the said City; William Anderson Rose, Esq.; Benjamin Samuel Phillips, Esq.; William Ferneley Allen, Esq.; Edward Conder, Esq.; James Clarke Lawrence, Esq.; Robert Besley, Esq.; Sills John Gibbons, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City; and Thomas Chambers, Esq., Q.C. Common Serjeant of the said City; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
CUBITT, MAYOR. SECOND MAYORALTY.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, April 7th, 1862.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MESSRS. GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY WATTS . I am record-keeper in the office of the Vicar General of the Archbishop of Canterbury, at Doctor's Commons—produce an it affdavit of Robert Francis Fairlie, dated 4th January, 1862; it appears to have been sworn before the Surrogate—it is my duty, from the affidavit; to make out a marriage licence—this (produced) is the licence I made out from the affidavit, after it had been sworn—it is my own handwriting—the licence is then signed by the registrar, and a seal attached in the regular way.
DR. WILLIAM ROBINSON . I am Surrogate to the Vicar General of the Archbishop of Canterbury—it is my duty to administer the oath to persons required to make affidavits under the Marriage Act—this affidavit bears my signature, it was sworn before me, and sworn to by the person who signed if.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. How are these affidavits prepared, are they kept in form? A. I believe they are kept in form, but it does not lie within my province—I have nothing to do with the affidavits, except as they are brought by the proctor before me, and then I swear the party—I believe the proctor prepares the affidavits in the ordinary course of business—I do not read it over or anything of that kind—the form of the inquiry is, "Is this your name and handwriting, you know the contents of the affidavit, and you believe it to be true"—that is all that comes before me—the explanations in relation to the contents or meaning of the affidavit, it is the duty of the proctor to make—it is not my duty.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. The last paragraph of the affidavit has reference to
the consent of the father, is that part of the form, or is it inserted afterwards in writing? A. It must have been inserted at the time because I see my initials opposite it: that is in writing, not a part of the printed form.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Are you able to swear, from your own recollection, that you read that over to him? A. I did not read any part of my attention—I cannot say whose handwriting that is, in the part to which it over to him has been called—I cannot say when it was written—it was not written in my presence.
REV. CHARLES LESLIE ALEXANDER . I am curate at the parish church of St. Mary's, Lambeth—on Sunday morning, 5th January, I performed a service of marriage, between Robert Francis Fairlie and Eliza Ann England, in pursuance of this licence, which was produced to me, not by banns—the license had then the seal of the Court on it—after I had solemnized the marriage the signatures were made in the register by the persons—the two persons whom I married signed the register—I have got the register here it is between Robert Francis Fairlie, of full age, widower, engineer address, Vassal-road; father's name, Archibald Fairlie, deceased, engineer and Eliza Ann England, minor, spinster; residence, St Paul, Deptford; father's name, and surname, George England; profession, engineer—and these are the signatures of the two persons whom I married—the seal of the license is generally taken off by the clerk, he keeps the license.
Cross-examined. Q. There was a lady and gentlemen present, witnesses to the marriage, Mr. and Mrs. Gibbons, I think? A. They were—I cannot say whether the young lady appeared to be at all unwilling, I think not—there was nothing to attract my attention—she is described as a minor—we do not put the actual age.
JOHN MCMAHON . I am acquainted with the handwriting of the defendant—this signature in the affidavit is his handwriting; the signature in the register is also his handwriting—I do not know the writing of Eliza Ann England—I have known Mr. England twenty-five years.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known Mr. Fairlie? A. Eight or ten years—I know his handwriting—I know him to be a person of position and respectability, his position is very high—1 do not know anything of his means, but I believe he has very competent means; he keeps a very good establishment, horses, a carriage, and so on—I have not been to his house since the marriage—I used frequently to visit at Mr. England's house at the same time that Mr. Fairlie visited there, many times; Mr. Fairlie showed a great deal of attention to the young lady, in the presence of her parents, which the young lady appeared not at all unwilling to accept—I heard Mr. England say that he would not allow them to be married; that was during the time I met him there frequently—Mr. England had spoken to me, and said that he would not allow them to be married—after that Mr. Fairlie was a visitor at the house, and decidedly showed attention to the daughter in the presence of her father and mother—Mr. England is a director of the Crystal Palace Company—I have frequently seen Mr. England, the two young ladies, and Mr. Fairlie, at the Crystal Palace together—I have seen them dining together frequently—I have seen them sitting in the reserved seats frequently—I have generally seen that the defendant used to be with Miss Eliza England, and to be seated next to her at dinner and elsewhere, not at all times, but generally, and in the presence of her parents.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. How recently, before the 4th January, in the present year, have you known Mr. Fairlie associating with Miss England in the way
you have described? A. I think November was the last time; no, it was not November, I think it was either the end of July or the beginning of August—I was present when something passed between Mr. England and the defendent as to his permission, to the daughter's marriage; but I do not know the nature of the conversation—it was a private conversation between Mr. Fairlie and him, it was spoken very low, and I did not pay attention to it; in fact I did not think it proper to do so, I thought it was some private conversation between them, and I held my head another way—I do not know the nature of the conversation—after that the defendant himself made a statement to me as to what the result of it was—that must have been last spring some time, I think; I am not positive about the date—I remember it was at the London Tavern one evening, but the date I cannot say—it was at the Caledonian ball; there was a ball and dinner party—he told me that he had Mr. England's consent to show attention to his daughter in two years time—I said, "Very well, you must wait the time."
COURT. Q. Was it after that conversation that you saw manifest attention being paid to the young lady, in the presence of her parents? A. After the conversation frequently.
GEORGE ENGLAND . I am the father of Eliza Ann England who has been married to the defendant—I never gave my consent to the marriage of my daughter—the signature to this register is my daughter's handwriting—she was eighteen years of age on 6th July last—I remember a conversation which took place between the defendant and myself with reference to some attentions which he proposed to pay to my daughter—I have had notice to produce my diary in which that conversation was entered, and have it here—I showed it to the defendant after I had written, it—it is under the date of Friday, 25th January, 1861; it is headed, "Mr. Fairlie—had long conversation respecting Lizzie," that is my daughter; "I told him, if he takes no steps in that direction for two years, from this day, I will then give him the same permission I have given Dickson; that is to the exercise of his powers to win the affections of my daughter, but on no account to make any attempts to pave the way before that time;" that is underlined—when I showed it to the defendant, about a week afterwards, he wanted to make it appear that I had said the promise was, that he should have her at the end of two years; and I said, "No; I will show you the entry that I made at the time," and when I read it I underlined those words, "pave the way "—that was done in his presence—he and I being both freemason's, belonging to the same lodge, he pledged me his word and honour, as a man and a mason, that he would strictly observe those conditions—that was the substance of what passed, and on those conditions he continued to visit at my house—about September, 1861, I had occasion to observe that he was paying attention to my daughter; I spoke to him about it, and I said that he was not observing the conditions that I had previously imposed upon him, and which he had promised to maintain, and I then requested him that he would entirely cease his attention to my daughter, and if he could not keep his promise that he had so sacredly given, he was not again to visit my house—I think that was in September—he never visited my house after that—I remember my daughter going with Mr. Dickson and another daughter, on 4th January, to the Crystal Palace—I was not at all aware that she would meet Mr. Fairlie there, I thought he was then in Spain, for I had received a letter from him a few days previously—I expected my daughter's return to my house that day; she did not come back—I heard of her that evening from Mr. Dickson; he came to me and fetched me from Mr. Alderman Rose's, where I was
dining—up to that time I had not directly or indirectly given the defendant reason to believe that I consented to hit marriage with my daughter; most positively to the contrary.
Cross-examined. Q. Is this your prosecution? A. I am the mover, most certainly; I appeal to the law for the protection it will afford me against such an outrage—I know that the defendant went to Spain subsequently to the marriage; but before that he caused a communication to be sent to me, as if coming from him in Spain, although he was then in London—I preferred this bill against him while he was in Spain with my daughter—he is not my son-in-law, and never will be—I applied to a Magistrate, the Hon. Mr. Norton, and acted under his advice—I came here and preferred the bill—I received a letter from the defendant the very day my daughter left, when I got home at night—I received another from him during the period he was at Cadiz—my danghter sent letters one after another to her mother—I never stopped them—she gave them to me unopened—I have read then—I am not sure whether I have got them here, I think I have—my daughter has property so far as all children have in the success of their parents—she has none in her own right—of course she can never get a farthing's worth of my property except by my own will, unless I choose to will it to her, and you may depend upon it she never will; but this man thought she was to have 10,000l.; that was his expectation—he knew it was entirely dependent upon me—he knew exactly how my family were situated—I say that the understanding with him was that he was to make no attempt to pave the way—I adhere to that most positively—I swear most positively that I have not assisted him in paving the way since that time—my daughter's birthday was on 6th July—I did not, on that occasion, receive from the hands of the defendant a very handsome bracelet, nor about that time—it was a law, time previous, in the previous year—I will swear it was not last year—it was previous to her birthday last year—I gave that bracelet to my daughter with my own hands—I did not tell her who it came from—allow me to explain—I insist upon explaining it—I handed her the bracelet myself, and I represented that it was a present of my own—Mr. Fairlie had produced the bracelet, and asked my permission to give it to my daughter, Eliza Ann—I said, "No, Mr. Fairlie; after the pretensions you are making to that girl, I cannot allow you to do anything of the sort"—he said, "Well; I have been to the photographer's where a photograph exists of you; I have had a miniature photograph taken of it put into this bracelet; it is not of any earthly use to me as it is, will you accept it from me, and give it to your daughter, instead of any present you are about to make to her?" which he knew I was about to do, there being some festival, and I am in the habit of making my daughter's presents—he asked if I would accept it, aud give it to her, as if I had purchased it myself and get my portrait put into it—I did so; and, for anything I know, to the present moment, the girl never know to the contrary, nor any of my family; even my wife does not know now that that took place—I allowed my daughter to wear it, falsely representing to her that I had purchased it for her, because it waa given to me by a friend as I then considered.
Q. But why should you take the credit of giving your daughter a forty guinea bracelet, when it waa given you by the defendant? A. I have explained the circumstances—forty guineas! four guineas you mean, I suppose—I have got it now, and she never sees it again you may depend—she left it at home when she eloped—I mean to keep it—she won't get it—I know it to be his property, and I wish it had always remained his—I mean to
keeps it or else put it in the fire—he never gave her a watch and chain—the never had a watch and chain from him—I give my children a gold watch and chain on their eighteenth birthday—that it my practice—I gave my daughter Eliza Ann a gold watch upon her last birthday—the defendant did not do it; I did—I will tell you what he had to do with it, if you will allow me—I was about to purchase the watch, at Bennett's; the defendant saw me there, and asked what I was doing there: he previously knew my intention of purchasing the watch for my daughter's eighteenth birthday, and he said, "I have a beautiful lady's watch, a better one than you will buy at Bennett's, because it made by Walker; it is no use to me, and you may as well buy it of me as anybody else"—knowing Mr. Walker's make, and that he made excellent watches, I purchased the watch from the defendant for 15l.—now, sir, did he give that watch?—I paid him the 15l. in a cheque—I swear that; it was for the watch and chain—it was 15l. for the watch, and I think 6l. for the chain—I hoped I had got a good bargain—that was the only reason I bought it—to the best of my recollection I paid 15l. and 6l.—I have no memorandum of it—I paid it to the defendant—I gave that watch to my daughter—I did not know that he had purchased it of Walker within a few hours—I knew better—I knew it was his late wife's watch, for he told me so himself—I objected to her having it, as Mr. Walker was in the habit of visiting ray family, and I did not wish him to know that I had given the defendant's late wife watch to my daughter; but he went and took Walker's name out, and put another name in in order that I should have it—I purchased it properly—I do not remember a diamond cross—I do not remember handing a diamond cross to my daughter that was purchased by him—I cannot swear what I do not remember—in visiting the house, he has given my daughter music—I have two that; he and Mr. Dickson both—it was some opera meats bound up, and each of them presented it to the two girls—Mr. Dickson was engaged to the one, the defendant was prohibited from speaking to the other; and he gave his solemn word and honour that he would not do so in the shape of a suitor—Mr. Dickson is not married to my other daughter—he is engaged to be married—he was introduced into my house by the defendant—I never called myself "Father Tom" to him—he called me so—I might, in a joke, perhaps, have called myself so—I don't remember—I do not think I ever did; but I may have done so, it is quite possible—(looking at a letter) this is my handwriting; the signature to this is "Father Tom" (looking at another) yes; that is all right; it is quite likely that I may have called myself "Father Tom" to him as late as September last—I know it now; it was an allusion to the piece of the "Colleen Bawn"—he called himself "Myles," and called me "Father Tom"—"Father Tom" is a priest in the "Colleen Bawn"—he used not to call my daughter "Eily"—I never heard him call her so—I know what you mean—it is not that—he called her "Lily," which I positively objected to; but that Lily had no reference to the piece, quite understand that; it was before that—I ran away with the lady that I am now married to, my former wife being alive at the time—if Sir Cresswell Cresswell had then existed I should not have done so—1 have been married to my present wife a good deal more than three years—I do not remember the date—it is a date I wish to forget—I do not remember the day very well—we celebrate the day every year—it was some years previous to what you state—the fact is, I was then living with my present wife, because I had a former wife then living—it was known to all my friends—I could not marry her, because my wife was then living; and Sir Crosswell Cresswell did not exist then—I married my present wife within fourteen
days after the death of the first—it was six or seven years ago, or something like that.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. This it an indictment at common law, not exactly for what it called perjury, but for a false oath, and I submit that the case has failed, because I contend that the alleged false oath must be as to some material fact, and the statement here alleged to be false, viz.—the consent of the father, was wholly immaterial, his consent not being necessary; if any consent at all was necessary it would be that of the mother; it has been decided that, as to an illegitimate child, it follows the mother's settlement, not the father's; therefore the declaration that he had the father's consent, was a declaration to a matter wholly immaterial, and would not support an indictment for perjury. Another question also arises—who is the father? Supposing, in point of law, the prosecutor is not the father, it is not disproved that the defendant had the father's consent.
MR. RECORDER. The Affidavit states, "by and with the consent of George England."
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Although he asserts him to be the father; that does not do away with the assumption of law that he is not the father.
MR. RECORDER. It is necessary, in order to obtain the certificate when that person is under age, that the affidavit shall state that the consent of the party whose consent is required under the provision of the Act, has been obtained.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. No doubt, and he might have been indicted for the violation of that Act of Parliament, 4 Geo. IV., oh. 76, sec. 14), is not obtaining the proper consent, but here he is indicted for alleging the consent of a person who has in law no power of assenting.
MR. RECORDER. Sec. 16 says, that if there is no such guardian, then the mother it the party to give consent; there seems to be nobody in this case provided for as the person who it to give the consent.
MR. GIFFARD. Unless the Act of Parliament meant the natural father and mother.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. The only thing he could have sworn truly was, that there was no one who was entitled to give consent, and such a state of things is provided for in sec. 17. There is another objection, viz.—the absence of any confirmatory evidence that the defendant had not Mr. England's consent on the day in question, 4th January; the only evidence on that point would be the defendants letter, which has not been put in.
MR. GIFFARD. Then I will cure that objection by putting it in. (The letter was then put in and read, dated, Cadiz, 31st January, 1862; it entered into an explanation of the circumstances attending the marriage, requesting pardon for the step, which had only been taken because there appeared no hope of obtaining the prosecutor's consent.
MR. GIFFARD. That letter disposes of the last point; with reference to the first, my friend has ingeniously mixed up the affidavit which might have been made with that which was in fact made; the licence was undoubtedly issued in pursuance of the defendant's statement, falsely made, that he had the father's consent; true, he adds to it a statement which it is now contended in point of law was incorrect, and that Mr. George England it not the father, but that I apprehend it immaterial; he himself, by his statement at the Vicar-generals Office, made it essential to his getting the licence, that he had George England's consent, and then he falsely swears that he has that consent; how can that be said to be immaterial to the issue of the licence, when but for that statement of his, on oath, the licence would not have been issued. I further say that the Act of Parliament probably refers to the consent of the natural as well as the
legal father and mother; it is said that the consent of the mother should have been obtained, but the law takes no more notice of the illegitimate child of a mother than of a father. For certain purposes the law recognises in the character of father or mother, the natural father or mother of an illegitimate child; but I am not aware that the law draws anp distinction between the father end mother's status in that respect; for certain purposes of affiliation &c. after the age of sixteen, the mother's settlement, must decide that of the illegitimate child but that it a matter technically arising out of the law; the law really takes no further notice of the illegitimate child of the mother than of the father. It is said that the defendant might have made an affidavit according to the facts, that so have procured the licence, but he does not do so—he distinctly points out George England as the person that has given his consent, and falsely swears that he hat done so. Then it it not the same at Reg. v. Phlipott, 2 Denison, p. 302, where it was held, that as the defendant had thought proper to make a matter material, it raised the question, and the materiality of perjury arose. I am unable to distinguish the principle of that case from the present; then it is impossible to contend that but for that false allegation the licence would have been issued. I find no trace in the Act of Parliament of making the law applicaple to a false oath control the materiality of the perjury; there is no necessity for any averment of materiality—there was no such averment in Reg. V. Chapman, 1st Denison, which was discussed at great length in the Court of Criminal Appeal.
MR. RECORDER. I wish you would direct your attention to the form of your indictment; you distinctly aver as the offence here, that he stated so and so, and is your declaration you aver "he being the person whose consent was by law requried, before the said Vicar-general was entailed to grant the said licence." MR. GIFFARD. I apprehend that raises the same point, because if it be immaterial for this purpose it may be rejected; it is not necessary to him that ment proved, the mere fact that, it is averred carries it no further; the Jury may reject that portion of the indictment, and then it would stand that he had untruly sworn that George England had consented.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE (in reply). With regard to the averment of immaterial, there never wat any necessity for an averment of materiality in perjury at all; it was only put in by the pleaders when the alleged false statement did not show it to be material to the question; you must either show materiality on the face of the indictment, or aver it; in the present instance they have undertaken to show materiality on the face of it; they do not allege materiality, but they allege the absence of consent of the natural and lawful father, the person whom it is shown on the face of the indictment, according to the Act of Parliament, would be the person who alone could give consent; I should have contended, if that had been omitted, that the indictment would have been open to objection; that there was neither an averment of materiality, nor materiality thown. A distinction has been attempted to be drawn between this indictment and an ordinary indictment for perjury. I belive the only reason why a person cannot be indicted for taking a false oath before the Surrogate is, that it it not in a judicial proceeding, which it one of the elements of perjury, therefore is called "a false oath," but all the other mattert connected with Perjury are just as applicable at if within the strict form; therefore the statement, that a matter need not be material in order to support a charge of taking a false oath, cannot be supported upon principle. Again, it hat been urged that this is material, and on the ground that, however immaterial a thing may really be, yet if a person imagines it to be material, or uses it so as to produce any effect, in that case there is as much materiality at if the matter wat really
material; but the words are "material to the issue;" that is, it is something that if true, will go towards proving the issue and Reg. v. Philpott, it a strong authority in my favour, and from Lord Campbell's Judgment the distinctions between that case and the present it perfectly clear. (THE RECORDER called attention to Reg. v. Gibbons). I am not familiar with the details of that case, but at my friend has not quoted it, I may infer it it not in his favour. Supposing here that there was no father or mother, and he had sworn that he had the constent of the father, I apprehend that would be a matter wholly immaterial, there being no such person in existence—here, he says, "I have the content of so and so, the father," then we must look to what legal power the father has; I contend that if the father had been present, and had given his consent, it would not have been a content within the meaning of the Act of Parliament, if the case I have quoted it correct: a guardian it bound to the appointed by the Court of Chancery, and he alone could give the consent required by the Act. It is clear that a legal connexion, and a legal position, must be referred to in the Act of Parliment, and it it for the purpose of maintaining those rights, and that position, that this number of restriction on put upon it; it does not anticipate the question of a father in relation to a bastard child, who hat no rights whatever in society, and has no claim upon the father, even to make him support it with its daily bread: if deserted by him, the could not by application to a Magistrate, or elsewhere, obtain any assistant from him within the Poor Law Act; the child, until the marriagt of the mother, follows the settlement of me mother, after that the has no rights, no position, no claim; if I am right in that, the father of such a child has neither right or claim upon her duty or obedience, and has no right whatever to expect that the should obtain his permittion to do any particular act.
MR. RECORDER (after consulting MR. COMMON SERJEANT). I am generally exceeding unwilling to stop a case upon a point of law without taking the opinion of the Jury upon the facts, especially when there is an opportunity, as there now is of reserving it for the consideration of the Court of Appeal, but if I entertain a clear opinion, I think I am bound to take that course; I do so here; and I am confirmed in that opinion by the Common Serjeant; I think that in this case the charge that is made is not established; there might be some question raised upon the point, of whether the particular averment was or was not material, but here the particular form of the charge is, that the defendant intended to obtain the licence without the consent of the lawful and natural father of the said Eliza Ann England; now that is not this case, because it appears upon the evidence that there is no lawful and natural father, and the distinct averment here made is, that the said George England is the lawful and natural father, that seems to be the form of charge made throughout, and that charge does not, upon this evidence, appear to be established, it is, therefore my duty to say, that in point of law, there is no evidence to support the charge.
NOT GUILTY .
383. RICHARD SIMPSON (24), and WILLIAM SMITH (28), Felonionsly breaking and entering the shop of William Birch, on 28th March, at St. Benet, Gracechurch-street, and stealing 1 watch and chain, value 30l., his property; also unlawfully breaking a certain glass, value 8l., the property of the said William Birch; to both of which they
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
384. ANTHONY DUTLEIN (31), Embezzling and stealing the sums of 11l. and 5l., of Samuel Wilson, Esq., his master.; also forging and uttering a receipt for 3l., with intent to defraud; to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY .—Mr. Alderman WILSON stated that the prisoner had been in his employment for nine months, during which period he had robbed him to the extent (at at present ascertained) of 23l., and that he absconded, taking with him a new suit of clothes, and was apprehended in Germany, when a variety of forged documents were found upon him.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY.*— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined Eighteen Months.
HENRY TAYLOR . I am warehouseman to Messrs. James Henry Morley and William Powell, Manchester warehousemen, of Friday-street—Messrs. Brampton and Crawford are customers of ours—on 17th February, the prisoner brought this order, (read) "17-2-62, Two pieces of fine linen, at 1s. 6d.—Brampton and Crawford, M. S."—I supplied him with the goods.
prisoner. Q. Did you ever see me before that? A. No—I recognised you at the police-station—I am sure you gave me the order.
COURT. Q. How long after he had brought the order was it that you went to the police-station? A. Two or three weeks—I then saw the prisoner alone—I did not pick him out from other persons—he signed for the goods in the name of Burn, and that is in the same handwriting as the order.
JAMES BLOWKER . I am porter to Messrs. Morley and Powell—I remember the prisoner coming with this order—I knew him previously for three years I saw him take away the goods—I gave them to him—he had formerly lived with Brampton and Crawford.
Prisoner. Q. You knew me perfectly well? A. Yes—I am quite certain it was you.
ANN MARIA SIMONS . I am a buyer in the employment of Messrs. Brampton and Crawford—I am in the habit of giving orders for goods for them, and signing my initials to the orders—this order is not my writing—I never gave anyone authority to write it—the prisoner was formerly in the employment of the firm, but he left between two and three yean ago—he was in the habit of taking out orders for me, with my initials to them.
Prisoner. Q. Is that anything like your writing? A. No—I sometimes entrusted other persons with orders to get goods for me.
Prisoner's Defence. I am well known about the City, the porter is mistaken about seeing me in the place on this morning; it is not proved that anyone every saw me with a parcel.
The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted of larceny, as a servant, at Guildhall, on 19th November, 1859, when he was sentenced to six months imprisonment, to this part of the charge he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
1l. 0s. 11d.—I paid the prisoner, and he gave me this invoice and receipt (read).
JOHN MOON . I live at 9, Gross-street, Walworth—on 28th March, I purchased some goods of Carlile and Co., for Mr. Metzner of Islington, for 13s. 7d.—the prisoner served me—I paid him—he gave me this receipt (produced).
WILLIAM BOLDING . I live at 9, Suffolk-place, Lower-road, Islington—on 28th March I purchased of Carlile and Co., some wool—I paid 1l. 18s. 2d. for it to the prisoner, and he gave me this invoice and receipt (produced).
JOHN PITMAN . I am a partner in the house of Carlile and Co., 13, Bow-lane, Cheapside, warehousemen—the prisoner was in our employment for some ten months as clerk, and afterwards as cashier—he has not paid me these three sums, nor accounted for them in his cash-book, according to rule—his duty was to receive no money whatever except he had a ticket from the party who sold the goods, with the amount and number upon it—on the 28th I saw an irregularity in the book, which called my attention to it—I did not wish to create any suspicion in his mind, and let it remain till the 31st—I then called him into the dining-room, and pointed out these discrepancies, and asked him to give an explanation what he had done with the moneys—they are entered in our cash-book, but not in the book which he kept—I have examined it carefully and there are no such entries—it was my custom to go over his cash-book every night with him—he said he knew nothing whatever respecting it, that there must be some mistake in it—I gave him in charge, and he said the same to the officer.
EDWARD HANCOCK (City Policeman). I was called to the prosecutors, and took the prisoner in custody—Mr. Pitman drew his attention to these three accounts—the prisoner said he knew nothing about them, he had never received the money at all—I found on him 1l. 17s. in money, a silver watch and guard, and a gold carbuncle ring.
EDWARD CARLILE . I went through the prisoner's cash-book with him at night—it was my custom to add it up, and take the balance in hand from him—he never accounted to me for these sums—he paid me the exact amount stated at the bottom of each of these pages, and that he stated as the whole of the money he had received.
Prisoner. I made no such statement at all, no statement was ever made when we balanced the money; I merely handed it over. Witness. It was his duty to hand over all the money he reoeived during the day, leaving 2l. 10s. in the till—he was in the habit of paying sums out—those sums are shown in this book, and the amounts he received opposite—it was his tudy to pay me the balance.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth. The prosecutor stated the amount of the prisoner's deficiencies to be about 29l. extending over a period of about five weeks.— Confined Eighteen Months
389. THOMAS STEVENS (25), Unlawfully being armed with certain dangerous and offensive weapons with intent to break and enter the ware-house of John Richardson. Second Count, unlawfully having in his possession certain implements of house breaking.
WILLIAM RUSSELL (City-policeman, 646). About half-past 10 on the night of 7th March, I was on duty near the premises of Mr. Richardson, of New-street, Bishopsgate—my attention was drawn to the roof of the warehouse there—I found the prisoner lying down on the roof—I took him to the warehouse and found that two panes of glass were broken, and the skylight
of Mr. Richardson's house—the prisoner was about a yard from the skylight at the time I took him—as I was taking him to the warehouse he threw away this chisel (produced)—I searched him, and found on him some lucifer-matches, two knives, and a pocket-handkerchief—the knives are common pocket knives—the chisel is an instrument used in house-breaking.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me throw the chisel away? A. Yes, with your left-hand, as I had hold of your right—I called to a boy to pick it up, which he did, and gave it to me—he is not here, but I saw him pick it up.
JOHN FOULGER (Police-inspector). I examined the roof of Mr. Richardson's warehouse—I found the glass of the skylight broken, and the sash partly prised up—I fitted this chisel to the marks where it had been prised and it fitted exactly—there is no question that this is the instrument that he partly prised it up with; there is a notch in it, and that notch exactly fitted a mark in the paint.
Prisoner. Q. In what part of the skylight were the marks? A. In the wood-work—there is sufficient lead round the skylight to prevent the water getting through, but there is some wood-work also—it is a lean-to in a shoping position, fitting down on to the frame—the marks were on the frame, and under the sash as well—that part of the warehouse is much lower than any other part—it is only about eight or nine feet high, and there to a gate at the end of it by which a roan could get up himself; with the assistance of another person he could get up in a minute—this chisel n the sort of instrument that we often find used in house-breaking.
GEROGE ARNOLD . I am foreman to Mr. Richardson—I left the laboratory that night about half-past 7—everything was safe then—no glass was broken in the skylight at that time—there were very valuable goods in the laboratory.
Prisoner. Q. Did you examine the skylight previous to leaving the place? A. I did—I fastened it myself as I did every night.
Prisoner's Defence. I wish to call the attention of the Jury to this chisel; it is not much like a housebraeaking instrument.
GUILTY on the Second Count.
The prisoner was further charged with having been previously convicted, on 4th February, 1861, at Clerkenwell, of breaking and entering a warehouse, when he was sentenced to Twelve Months imprisonment; to which part of the charge he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
ROBERT GOSLING (City-police-sergeant, 31). On the night of 28th March, about half-past 11, I was on duty near Gough-square—as I was passing Mr. Hodgson's printing-office there, I heard a noise inside the door—I stayed there for about a quarter of an hour, and heard some one at the lock inside the door, as if trying to get it off—I then heard the lock taken off and laid down, and another lock apparently forced—I then saw the door open a little way—I directly pushed it against the prisoner, and got hold of him—he said, "All right; I work here"—he tried to get away—the sergeant came up and took him in charge, while I went to search the
premises—I found a desk forced open in the warehouse, and in the counting-house, on the first floor, I also found a desk forced open, and a drawer above it—in the drawer was this cash-box, forced open, and in the cash-box were a few papers—I then came down and searched the prisoner and in his right hand I found a florin, and in his pocket a penny-piece, four halfpence, and a piece of steel, which is used by printers as a screw—the chisel the prisoner dropped at the time I apprehended him—the door that he took the lock off of is at the bottom of Pemberton-row, just out of Gough-square.
Prisoner. Q. You say I dropped the chisel? A. Yes; I heard it drop—your hands were down at your sides at that time; not in your pockets.
JOSEPH TEGG . I am in the employment of Mr. Hodgson, of Gough-square—no one sleeps on the premises—I never saw the prisoner before this charge—he was not in the employment—I left the premises at two minutes to 10 on the night in question—I locked up the doors at that time, and fastened the windows—next morning I went and found one lock completely forced off, and one broken—I saw this cash-box had been broken open; I do not know what had been in it—a drawer had also been forced open, and two other drawers were open which had not been locked—the door leading into Pemberton-row is sometimes left open till after dark, for the men to go in and out.
CHARLES FRANCIS HODGSON . I am a printer, in Gough-square—I left my premises on the evening of 28th March between 7 and 8 o'clock—I left the cash-box locked up in the afternoon, and placed it in a drawer, which was locked—it contained a florin, and some coppers, and some papers.
Prisoner. Q. Can you swear that is the florin? A. No.
THOMAS HEWSON . I am in the employment of Mr. Hodgson—I came to the premises on Saturday morning, the 29th, and found this crow-bar underneath my desk, in the warehouse—it was not there when I left the previous night.
Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent. On 28th March a young man paid me 3s. which he owed me; it was a florin, two fourpenny-bits, a threepenny-piece, and a penny. I spent all the money but the florin and the fourpence. I changed the fourpenny-piece in Holborn to buy a penny pie, and came into the street where this robbery was committed. As I came aloug I perceived two men go in at the door. I went in to see what it was, and one of the men came and shut the door. I could not open it again. The men went up stairs, and then came down and went out. I took the lock off, and was trying to come out when the constable took me.
GUILTY.*— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Monday, April 7th, 1862.
PRESENT.—Mr. Ald. GIBBONS and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM LIVINGSTON . I am chief usher at the Thames Police-court—I was present when these depositions were taken before Mr. Selfe, and when the oath was administered—the signature, "Mary Coucher," to this deposition
is in the handwriting of the prisoner—I saw it signed—(Read: "Mary Coucher says: 'I am the wife of John Arton Coucher, superintendent of the Merchant Seamen's Orphan Asylum, in Bow-road, Bromley—I am matron of the Institution—the prisoner occasionally has worked there in helping the laundress—she has done so for the last six or seven months—up on her leaving the house last night, 16th instant, between 8 and 9 o'clock, I suspected her, and went to the gate after her—I saw that she had a bundle, and said, "What have you there?"—she said, "A little supper"—I said, "It's rather a large supper"—I took it from her, and went into the house with it—the prisoner returned to the house—I went into my own room with the bundle, and put it down on the table, and on opening it I found three half-quartern loaves, about two pounds of uncooked beef, about the same quantity of cooked beef, and a basin full of dripping—the meat was in a piece of newspaper, and the whole of the articles were wrapped up in the apron produced—I placed the bundle on the table in the state it was in when I took it from the prisoner—I called in my husband, and showed him what I had found—this was half an hour afterwards—the cook had liberty to give the prisoner meat for supper, but not to be taken out of the house, but no liberty to give her uncooked meat or loaves of bread to be taken away—the meat is kept in the pantry, and the bread in the bread-room—the prisoner had no business at either place—the value of the loaves and uncooked meat is 2s.—the articles are the property of William Henry Hackwood and others, who are the Committee of the Institution—the wrapper is an apron such as the servants wear in the kitchen—I remained in my room, when I had put down the prisoner's bundle, until my husband came into the room about half an hour afterwards. Cross-examined. I am going to leave the Institution with my husband in March next—I have had no cause of displeasure with the prisoner—the bead laundry-maid was with the prisoner at the gate—they came out of the laundry together.'—Signed M. Coucher."
MARY LAUGHTON . I am the wife of Jeremiah Laughton, who lived at 7, Brewer's-yard, when I left home—I have for some time past been a prisoner in the House of Correction, at Westminster—I was convicted at the Middlesex Sessions in January, and was sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment, with hard labour—on 16th January last year, I was at work at the Seamen's Orphan Asylum, in the Bow-road, as a charwoman and assistant laundress—I had been there as assistant for, I should think, about the last seven months—the defendant, Mrs. Coucher, was the matron of that Institution—on the evening of 16th January, between 8 and 9 o'clock, I was leaving the Asylum, having finished my day's work at a few minutes after 8 o'clock—I was carrying a small newspaper parcel, and a basin of dripping—I had the newspaper parcel in my left hand, in this manner, and the basin of dripping in my right hand—I cannot say what the newspaper parcel contained; it was so short a time that I had not looked into it—Susannah Harvey, the cook, had given it me for my supper—I was in the habit of having my supper given me to take home, and I supposed this to be my supper—the parcel was not very large; not large enough to contain three half-quartern loaves, two pounds of uncooked meat, and two pounds of cooked meat—the cook had also given me the basin of dripping—there was no other wrapper of any kind attached to the parcel, out the newspaper—I was wearing this apron—there was nothing but the newspaper round the parcel; no wrapper—that parcel was the only one that I carried out—I came out of the kitchen into the yard, through the scullery door, straight to the gate—Mary Ann Keast, the laundry-maid, stood at the
laundry-door—the laundry and scullery are two different places; the laundry is just opposite as you come through the door—you go from the kitchen, through the scullery, and into the yard at once; it is only about half a dozen steps from the kitchen to the yard—I went through the Kitchen, and through the scullery door, and then into the yard—as I passed the laundry door, Mary Ann Keast stood there—she said, "Are you going?"—I said, "Yes; I am"—I asked her whether she was coming to the gate—she walked to the gate with me—we were talking together—on my way to the gate I saw Mrs. Coucher as soon as I came out of the kitchen into the yard—I did not know then that it was she, but I know now—the laundry door is outside the scullery door, but it is on the other side of the yard—I must pass the laundry door to go to the gate into the Bow-road—I went up to the gate with Mary Ann Keast, and when I got to the gate Mrs. Coucher came up—I said, "Good night"—I believe Mrs. Coucher said, "Good night," and put her hand on the newspaper parcel that I carried in my left hand, and said, "What have you got here?"—Mary Ann Keadt was by at the time—I said, "My supper"—Mrs. Coucher said, "Give it to me"—she appeared very ravenous for it—I said, "Yes; allow me to hand it to you"—as I handed it to her, she said, "That is all I wanted"—I handed her both the dripping and the parcel of supper that I had received from the cook—I had not lost sight of them at all from the time of the cook giving them to me—I had not altered them in any way by adding to or taking anything from them—when Mrs. Coucher said, "That is what I wanted," she went the same way as she had come, towards her own room, with the parcels—I went straight back into the kitchen, and found the cook there still—I remained there from three quarters of an hour to an hour, as near as I can tell—I told the cook why I remained in the kitchen—I was waiting to know why Mrs. Coucher took my supper—Mrs. Coucher did not come to me in the kitchen—after waiting a long time the cook spoke to me, and I went home—after I had got home a policeman came to me, and I was taken to the station, and from the station back to the Asylum—that was the same evening—when I was taken to the station, I saw a bundle there, in which were three half-quatern loaves, and the basin of dripping which Mrs. Coucher took from me, and the newspaper parcel, also some cooked and uncooked meat, the paper was broken—the paper parcel, the basin of dripping, and the other things, were all inside a coarse apron—I returned with the police, and the apronful of things, to the Asylum; to the schoolmaster's room—Mrs. Coucher came, sometime after I went in, and the things were put on the table before her—I said to her, "Are you going to say that you took that bundle from me at the gate?"—(I had been told by the inspector that I was charged with stealing those things)—she said, "Yes"—I was then taken back by the policeman—I do not remember whether I said anything else to her—Mrs. Coucher has seen me before leaving the Asylum at night with my supper, and she has given me a beef-steak pudding uncut, for my supper, to take away, from her own room, and told me not to tell any of the servants that she had given it to me—she has known that I was in the habit of taking my supper away—Mrs. Coucher came to the police-station with me, and Inspector Kerresey was there—I do not remember whether it was before Kerresey that I asked Mrs. Coucher whether she charged me with stealing those things—I was a good deal confused at the charge—I do not remember what I said to Kerresey.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long is it since Mrs. Coucher gave you the beef-steak pudding? A. I cannot say; I do not remember—she has ordered the cook before now, to give me any cooked food that was
left—I remembered the beef-steak pudding when I had it given to me—since that this is the first time I remembered anything about it—I cannot tell how long ago that was—I was very much obliged to her for it—I thought it was my supper—I believed that I was always allowed to have something for my supper—I did not think anything about its being kind of her to give it me—I did not think it was an act of kindness—I brought it into the kitchen, and the servants saw it; the cook and the laundry maid—I was up before the Magistrate at the Thames police-court—I do not know who I had to represent me—I know Mary Ann Keast—she was called as a witness before the Magistrate—I do not know whether she was called by me—after that I was committed to take my trial at Clerkenwell—I was tried there—I had a lawyer there to defend me—I recollect a gentleman addressing the jury on my behalf, making a very vehement speech—I also called a person named Bennett—I was charged there with stealing the loaves and the uncooked meat—I heard Mrs. Coucher examined there, and, after hearing all, the jury found me guilty, and I was sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment—I do not think I have known Mary Ann Keast a twelvemonth yet; about a twelvemonth I should think—it was not she that introduced me into that place—she was there before me—it is about six or seven months since I went there—I knew her before I went there; she worked where I was working—it was not in consequenoe of her recommendation that I went there—I applied to Mrs. Coucher for work: Mary Ann Keast suggested to me to do so—I was her fellow-servant—I was in the habit of working there every day—the cook had authority to give me supper every night; cooked meat—she had no authority to give me uncooked meat—this (produced) is my apron—you asked me at the Court whether I did not say that Mrs. Coucher took my apron from me, and I brought this; it is the only apron I am possessed of; it was not my apron that Mrs. Coucher took—the cook gave me the paper parcel containing my supper; but I never looked in it—she gave me the dripping separate—I cannot positively say whether I had my shawl and bonnet on when she gave me the parcel; I had them in the kitchen ready to put on—after I got the parcel from the cook I want directly through the scullery door into the yard—if I had not my bonnet and shawl on, I put them on immediately—they where hanging on a chair in the kitchen where I stood—I know I had them on when coming from the kitchen—when I went out from the kitchen I went by the laundry—I went through the scullery door—the laundry is nearly opposite that—Keast stood at the laundry door—she was not waiting for me, that I know of—she walked with me to the gate—she was present and saw everything that passed between Mrs. Coucher and me—they knew at the Institution, where I lived—I did not say anything about an apron when I went back to the kitchen—I saw Harvey, the cook, there when I went back—I did not take notice whether Elizabeth Partridge was there; I am not able to say she was not there—I did not notice whether a person named Elizabeth Sherman was there—it is not a very large kitchen—those two persons might have been there without my noticing them—I told the cook that Mrs. Coucher took my supper from me—I did not say, "Mrs. Coucher has taken away my little bit of supper that I had wrapped up in an apron"—this was lecture night; they were at lecture when I left—I did not know that Mrs. Coucher's husband was at lecture—I did not know that he was in the habit of attending the lecture—there are two schoolmasters—I leave between 8 and 9 o'clock every night—I do not know exactly what are the lecture nights—I knew afterwards that this was lecture night, but I did not know it at
the time—I heard Mr. Coucher say afterwards that they were at lecture—I did not take any notice—I did not know at the time I left that they were attending lecture—I did not know where Mr. Coucher was—I had been there six or seven months—I did not know what night lecture was—I did not concern about when it was lecture night.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How many times a week were you there? A. I was there every day, Sundays and all.
MARY ANN KEAST . I live at 6, Brewer's-yard, Bow, and am a widow—I was engaged at the Seaman's Orphan Asylum, at the Bow-road, as head laundry-maid, in January this year, and for some time previously—Mrs. Coucher was the matron of the establishment, and Mary Laughton was employed there as a charwoman—I remember being iu the Asylum on the evening when Mary Laughton was given in oustody—I was at the laundry door when she was going away—that is, I should say, about three yards from the kitchen, or it might be a little more—from where I was, I could see a person coming in the direction from the kitchen—I saw Mary Laughton—she had a paper parcel in her hands, it lay on her arms—in the other hand she had a basin of dripping—we spoke to one another—she and I walked from the laundry door to the outer gate—she had nothing else in her arms while walking from the place where I first saw her to the gate—I saw Mrs. Coucher come up—I was standing at the gate—Mrs. Laughton said to her, "Good night, Ma'am"—Mrs. Coucher said, "Good night; what have you got there?"—Mrs. Laughton said, "I have got my supper"—Mrs. Coucher made for to take it from her—she made a grab at it—Mrs. Laughton said, "Allow me to hand it to you," and gave it to her; and Mrs. Coucher said, "That is all I wanted"—it was a paper parcel and a basin of dripping that she had from her—I do not know what was in the parcel—she did not take any other parcel, or cloth, or wrapper from her—Mrs. Coucher, when she had got the things, went towards her own room—I went into the laundry, and Mrs. Laughton. I believe went into the kitchen—I cannot say how long I stayed in the laundry; five or ten minutes—it was quite impossible for Laughton to have had three half-quartern loaves in the parcel without my seeing it—some time previously Mrs. Coucher made a charge in respect of me and Mary Laughton about some calico; and in a few days Mrs. Coucher came to me and said, "Ann, I have found my mistake as regards that calico; and I have just merely come into the laundry thinking I should meet you and Mrs. Laughton; but I have inquired about it, and you tell Mrs. Laughton that it is quite correct about the calico; and it is on my side that the mistake is"—I had been before the Ladies' Committee—Mrs. Coucher was not present then; but she came in afterwards I believe—it is a rule that we shall not be all present at the same time—I heard Mrs. Coucher say that Mrs. Laughton had a husband to do for her, and she thought there was a widow more in need of the work than she was—that was about a week or a fortnight before the charge about the calico.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You say you did not go to the kitchen? A. I did not—I went to the laundry—I believe it was discovered afterwards that it was a very small portion of calico that was missing—that was the reason of the mistake—Mrs. Coucher accused me and Mrs. Laughton; but she said afterwards that it was discovered to be some very small quantity—I went into the kitchen that night to supper, during the time Mrs. Laughton was there—I was not with her in the kitchen after she had been stopped by Mrs. Coucher—I went back to the laundry, where I stayed, it might be half an hour or twenty minutes, before I went back to the kitchen—I went into the
kitchen to supper, and Mrs. Laughton was standing there—I did not say that I did not see her after I left her at the gate—I can swear she was in the kitchen when she went in—she was waiting for Mrs. Coucher to bring her her supper back—I swear she was in the kitchen—I am quite sure of it—I have not a bit of doubt about it—I cannot say how long she remained in the kitchen after I went there: a few minutes, a very short time, I think—I could not say to a few minutes—I said to her, "I think you had better go home; and if there is anything to be said about your supper being taken from you, you will hear of it in the morning—she did not go away immediately I said that—the cook had told her—she went away; it might be a few minutes afterwards—I could not have been long in the laundry before I went into the kitchen—I was not there more than half an hour—I was about my business there, folding—my business did not take me to the kitchen; my work lay in the laundry—I did not go at once to the kitchen, because Mrs. Laughton's business had not much to do with me—I expected that the parcel was her supper—there was no bread there that I saw—I will swear there was none—ii, could not have held three half-quartern loaves; it could not have held one—Mrs. Coucher's taking her supper away had nothing to do with me—I came into the kitchen for my supper, and found that Mrs. Laughton was very determined to wait—she said she would not go till Mrs. Coucher gave her her supper—that was when she was in the kitchen—she had been there half an how—I do not knpw that she said anything to me when I first went into the kitchen—I took a chair and sat down, waiting for my supper—the first thing Laughton said was, "Dear me! strange' that Mrs. Coucher is not coming to give me back my supper"—she said that openly to those that were in the kitchen—the cook said, "Well, Mrs. Laughton, I think you may as well go; and if there is anything to be said about it, you will hear of it to-morrow—that was what I said, as well as the cook—I said it first—when she came back from the police-station, she said, "Dear me! why Mrs. Coucher has put in three half-quartern loaves of bread, and some uncooked meat, and said I had it with me"—when she said, "Dear me! how strange Mrs. Laughton don't being me back my supper," I said, "Well, you may as well go home; and if she don't bring it back to-night, you will hear about it to-morrow"—cook was there, and she said, "Well, you may as well go on; and if there is anything to be said, I suppose you will hear of it to-morrow;" and that is exactly what I said—she said it about five minutes after I did—I did not hear anything else said—Laughton said that she would not go till Mrs. Coucher came down and gave her her supper; that she did not feel satisfied—then I said again that she might as well go; and if there was anything to be said about it, she would hear about it to-morrow—she made no answer to that that I remember—then the cook said the same—Laughton said nothing more than I have stated—I did not hear her make any reply to the cook—she went away then—I was examined in the first instance at the Thames police-court—I recollect Laughton being tried—I was examined, and told all that I have told to-day—I know what the Jury said, and shall recollect it for some time; very likely I shall never forget it—I have known Laughton for about eleven months—it was not I who introduced her there; she introduced me—I was there a day or two before her—Mrs. Coucher said she did not want a person to go in daily; but she wanted an under laundry-maid; and Mrs. Laughton came to me, and said, "Ann, do you think yourself capable of the situation?"—I said, "Yes"—she said, "Because I think I know of one"—she had known me for a month before—l have been, there eight months—I went on 21st June, I think;
and I think she went on 23d—I went on Friday; and I think she went in on Monday—she was there every day when required; not every day from the time I have been there—I used not to see her every day—we continued on terms of intimacy—I was quite acquainted with her all the time—I am not in the service still—I left the day after the jury found her guilty—I think Mrs. Laughton had an apron on that night—I did not hear two or three days before that there was an apron missing—I never heard it—I heard it was said that these things were found wrapped in a coarse apron—we were not extra busy that night—I went to the laundry door to cool myself—I had seen her from 8 in the morning till ten minutes to 8 at night, in the cellar with me—sht left the cellar first—I had been in the laundry about twenty minutes before she passed me—I went to the door merely by accident to cool myself, and walked on to the gate with her—I was in the habit of going to the gate with her—I did not go every night; but I went that night because I wanted to remind her to be in good time in the morning as there was ill-feeling of Mrs. Coucher towards her and me—(Mrs. Coucher had reported us both as not being in time in the morning)—finding her sent back, and her supper taken from her, I walked back to the laundry—I know where the bread room is—I have been in it—the girl Laughton knows it also—several loaves are kept there—I have gone there, and brought a half-quartern loaf down to the table, when we have been waiting for tea or breakfast—anyone next me has said, "Well, you may as well run up, Ann, and get a quartern loaf—the bread room is open to anybody—Laughton has not done the same—I never took any into the laundry—I know a boy named Whiteley—I did not, on one occasion, at the latter end of November, have two loaves in the laundry, nor did I put a cloth and the loaves under a pan, in the presence of George Whiteley; it is very likely I have given him a piece of bread, and other boys in the school; but I never cut it off a loaf—I never saw two loaves under a pan in the laundry, or in the cellar, or any where else—I had not been in the bread room for six or seven weeks; and then merely for bread—there was nothing else that would bring me there; but the soap and sods was kept there; and I had occasion to go there every Monday morning for the soap and soda—I did not always go for it on Monday morning, because sometimes she left it out on Friday—this was on Thursday—I had not been in the bread room on Monday; I had been on the Friday week.
Q. Why did you tell me it was five or six weeks before? A. Well, I did not go into the bread-room, I was at the bread room door—I was not in the bread-room on Friday week, but I was on the Friday week before this—I was at the door but no further—the soap and soda was left on the ledge—there is a slide which comes down; you have the advantage, you have been in the Asylum, and know all about it—I did not see you there, but I heard so—the cook told me the other week that you were there—she said that a gentleman, the lawyer that was plaintiff for Mrs. Coucher was there—I have said what I have got to say and you will get nothing more from me—Mrs. Harvey told me that the counsel for Mrs. Coucher was in the asylum taking all the intelligence he could get—I forget whether she mentioned your name, and I forget when she told me—I have got a bad memory—it was when I came from the Old Bailey the last time she told me that the counsellor who had pleaded for the woman, had been in the Asylum getting all the intelligence he could: had you not Eliza, the housemaid, in private to talk to you?—I do not know whether Eliza was alone—the cook told me that you were in the Asylum talking to Eliza, and so you was she also told me that you were talking to the boys—I suppose the cook had a pretty good guess what you were there for; she said that you were there to learn the particu-lars
—that was before the last sessions, but you can have it the other way—I heard Mrs. Coucher give her evidence before the Magistrate—I did not hear it at Clerkenwell, I was out of Court—at the time Mrs. Coucher asked Laughton what she had got there, and she said that it was her supper, I did not hear Mrs. Coucher say, "It is a very large supper," and she could not have said it without my hearing it.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you, in respect of bread, or soap, or soda, or anything else, the property of the Asylum, done anything but your duty? A. I never did—I have never been guilty of misconduct or dishonesty while I have been in the Asylum, nor was I ever charged with it—I have a character to prove it up to this day—with the exception of the calico business, I never heard a complaint of the honesty of Mary Laughton.
SUSANNAH HARVEY . I am cook at the Seaman's Orphan Asylum—on the morning of 16th January, I gave Mary Laughton her supper to take home with her, which I was in the habit of doing to the knowledge of Mrs. Coucher—it was wrapped in a pieoe of newspaper, and consisted of a piece of cooked beef, 1lb. I should think, and a small crust of bread only, as I had no more bread down—I had given her a basin of dripping in the afternoon—I gave her no uncooked meat—when she took it she left the kitchen through the acullery which leads to the laundry, she returned in ten minutes, or not so long, without her parcel, and remained in the kitchen with me three quarters of an hour, or an hour—I next saw her when she was brought back by the policeman, I had not in that interval seen Mrs. Coucher—I first saw the parcel of bread and meat in the apron in the schoolmaster's room, there was a piece of cooked meat and a piece of raw meat—I had not seen the uncooked meat and the loaves of bread before—I had not given them to her—she could not have had that parocel when she left the kitchen without my seeing it.
Cross-examined. Q. She left the kitchen I suppose, and you did not see any more of her till she came back? A. She went from the kitchen through the scullery—you can see from the kitchen into the scullery; the door leads out of the kitchen into the scullery—I do not think she had a bonnet and cloak on—I cannot say where she kept them—I gave her her supper-beer, and she drank part of it, and handed the mug into the scullery—I cannot say whether she had the dripping in her hand when I gave her her supper—she might have left it in the scullery—she must have gone somewhere to get it after I gave her her supper as I did not see it with her—Mary Ann Keast came into the kitchen, but not for some time after—she was not there long before Laughton left—Keast said nothing to my recollection—I said to Laughton, "It is no use for you to stop," and I think Keast said so also—I supposed that Mrs. Coucher was at the lecture that night—it is her habit to go—she does not stop there all the time—it is not a religious service, but a lecture on different subjects—at the time I saw the loaves it was my apron that they were in, I had missed it for three months—Mrs. Coucher remains there still, as matron, and I as cook—I do not know if I have ever seen you there, but if I have not, I have seen you elsewhere—I never told Mary Ann Keast that you had gone to the Asylum to get intelligence, or that you were speaking to Eliza and the boys—I heard that there was somebody there speaking to them, but I did not know who.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You heard that some lawyer had been there getting information about this matter? A. Yes; and I told that to Keast—at the time of the trial at the Middlesex Sessions, Mrs. Coucher was undernotice to leave—the first time I saw this apron, after Laughton was given in custody, was after it had been produced by Mrs. Coucher.
COURT. Q. Do you know from her whether any alteration has taken place as to her leaving or staying? A. I do not—she is still there in the capacity of matron.
WILLIAM KERRESEY (Police-inspector). I was on duty at the police-station in the district in which the Asylum is situated, on the night, when Mrs. Laughton was brought there in custody—she was taken to the station and then to the Asylum, and then brought back again—I said, "Explain to me, Mrs. Coucher, the nature of this charge"—she said that she stopped Mrs. Laughton going out at the gate at about 8 o'clock, with the parcel then produced—the parcel then contained three half-quartern loaves, two pounds of uncooked meat, about a pound and a half of cooked meat, and a basin of dripping—Mrs. Laughton then said, "Oh, you liar, how can you stand there and say that? look'ee here, sir, Mrs. Croucher is going to leave, she said she would be one with us before she left, she must have put it there herself"—Mrs. Coucher replied, "What is the use of your saying that, Mrs. Laughton, when you know very well you had the parcel going out"—I asked if any bread and meat was missing, and whether they could identify it—they said they could not, it was impossible for them to miss it from such a large quantity—the charge was then entered for unlawful possession—there are constables doing duty in that road where the Asylum is—I think the Asylum is about seven minutes walk from the station—a constable would be on that beat.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You stated all you have stated now at Clerkenwell? A. No; I was not there; constable 389 was—he might have heard when all this was said—he brought the prisoner there—Mrs. Coucher said something to me and I sent a constable in search of her.
COURT to MRS. HARVEY. Q. When you saw the bundle afterwards, you recognized the piece of cooked meat you had given to her? A. Yes; I did not see the crust of bread—she told me she had eaten that with her beer.
The prisoner received a good character.— NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY.Recommended to mercy by the prosecutors. — Confined Six Months
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, April 8th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and Mr. Ald. BESLEY.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .
The prosecutor stated that the prisoner's defalcations amounted to 100l. in the present year.
Three Years's Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .
MR. KEMP, for the prosecution, stated that the friends of the prisoner were desirous of placing him in a reformatory.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Six Months
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
LEOPOLD WARNECKE . I live at 14, Buttesland-street, Hoxton—I worked for about eight weeks, up to the 22d of March, with Messrs. Oppenheim, of Cannon-street—about three weeks before Christmas I took two seal skins from my masters' premises, and thirty-six black musquash skins—I took them to Poehler—he gave me 1s. each for the musquash skins, and 18s. each for the seal skins—I had previously taken some musquash skins to him, and he said if I had anything to sell I could bring it to him—I told him, we were some skins short at one time at the warehouse, and he told me they paid so little money in the warehouses that you must take some skins—I recollect taking twenty-six coloured musquash skins to him—he gave me 1s. each for them—I took him about 100 racoon tails—he gave me a halfpenny each for the first, and 2 1/2 d. for the others—I took them to him at his own house, 28, High-street, Bloomsbury—no one else was present when I took them—I took them out of the warehouse—I know that some of the skins I took to Poehler were placed at Wagner's.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. How have you been in this country? A. Thirteen months—I came from Hamburg—I left there because there was no work for me—I wanted to go to America; I had not money enough, and I came here first—I was never charged with any crime at Hamburg—I was never turned out of Hamburg by the police—I did not leave there in consequence of the surveillance of the police—I worked for my living there as a furrier, as I do here—I never stole any skins then; never before I came to Messrs. Oppenheim's—I never stole any besides those I have mentioned—I never sold any to any one but Poehler—I took ten musquash skins to make a boa and muff of, and I sold those to another man, but he did not know they were stolen—I think I first began to steal from Messrs. Oppenheim in September; I cannot tell exactly—I got into their employment by working for Mr. Duck, of Tabernacle-walk—I heard that there was a place open at Messrs. Oppenheim's, and went there, and he said I might come to work—I referred them to Mr. Duck—I left him because he had no more work for me—he did not employ any one but myself—he had told me before he only had four week's work for me—he did not take on other workmen after I left—I afterwards went to Mr. Duck again—I took these skins in consequence of what the prisoner said to me; it was at his suggestion—I had never taken any skins prior to that—I am not doing anything now—I have got no work—I go to my friends at the West End to eat; Mr. Wagner and another gentleman.
CHARLES THOMAS GAYLOR . I am a detective-officer of the City-police—on Saturday, 22d March, in consequence of information, I went to Mr. Lillicrap, 19A, Davis-street, Berkeley-square, accompanied by Mr. Martin, the manager of Messrs. Oppenheim's—I saw Mr. Lillicrap, and he gave me these two seal skin muff borders, and these two pairs of cuffs—the prisoner was working for Mr. Lillicrap at that time—Mr. Lillicrap called him down—I showed him these skins, and told him that Mr. Lillicrap said he had bought them of him—I asked how he accounted for the possession of them—he said he bought them of some man—I asked him who—he said he did not know the man; he thought he was a Jew; he did not think he was in the trade—I asked where he lived—he said, "In High-street, Bloomsbury"—I left him in charge of Hancock, and went to his lodgings, 28, High-street—I afterwards went to Carnaby-street, and received from Wagner a parcel containing twenty-four musquash skins, which I produce.
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner gave you his address, and you found it correct? A. Yes—he said he bought them of a little Jew man, and he thought he was not in the trade—he also said he did not know who he was—I am quite sure he denied knowing the man.
WILLIAM PEARCE LILLICRAP . I am a furrier, at 19A, Davis-street, Berkeley-square—the prisoner worked for me as a furrier since September last, on the premises—I bought twenty-five musquash skins of him—I think that was about September last—I gave him 35s. for them—I also bought fifty racoon tails of him, for which I gave him 10s. 5d.—that was 2 1/4 d. each—the market value is about 7s. a hundred—I did not ask him where he got them from; he had stated that previously—on 4th January I bought two seal skins of him, and gave him a guinea each for them—I asked him where he obtained them—he said he bought them of a little Jew man, whom he dealt a little with previous to coming to me—I asked him most distinctly where he got them from; if it was quite straight and square—they were not in a finished state—I sold one of them, and the other has been turned into two muffs and two pairs of cuffs—these are them—they were given up to the officer—I also bought five musquash skins of the prisoner in January—I think I might have said to him the previous evening that I had a small order, and if he would be kind enough to get them for me I should be glad—I had been laid up with rheumatism for nearly seven months, and could not go out in the evening—I gave him a sovereign to go and get them, and in the morning he brought them to me.
Cross-examined. Q. Was what you gave him for these skins a fair and reasonable price? A. 2 1/4 d. was considerably over the market price for the racoon tails—had the seal skins been finished, I should not, in all probability, have bought them—I think I gave a fair market value for them, not being finished—my profit would be about twenty-five per cent; I cannot say what another man's profit would be—the prisoner has been in my service since September—I had known him previously—I had three years' reference with him—I have no legal proof that he robbed me while he was in my service; I have a moral doubt on the subject—I heard no imputations against him before he came to me.
EDWARD HANCOCK . I am a detective officer of the City-police—I accompanied Gaylor to Mr. Lillicrap's, and afterwards took the prisoner into custody—I held out no promise or threat to him to make any statement—on the way to the station he said he was confused and excited when we were at Mr. Lillicrap's place, and he did not exactly understand the charge, although he spoke English very well, he did not understand it—I then told him he
would be charged with receiving, within the last three months, two seal skins, and a quantity of musquash skins, the property of Messrs. Oppenheim, Cannon-street West, in the City, knowing them to be stolen—he said, "If I had known that, I would not have bought them"—he said, "He came to me and wanted to sell them"—I said, "Who?"—he said, "Oppenheim's man; I gave him 1l. a piece for the seal skins, and 1s. for the musquash skins; I sold the skins to Mr. Lillicrap for a guinea, and the musquash skins for 17d."—on the Monday following, as I was taking him to the Mansion-house, I said to him, "I do not know whether you are aware of the fact, we have some other musquash skins from Mr. Wagner"—he said he did not know: he thought this was wrong, and Warnecke told him to take them away, and he took them to Wagner's.
JOSEPH WAGNER . I am a hair-dresser, at 46, Carnaby-street—I gave a parcel of twenty-four musquash skins to the officer, Hancock—I received them from the prisoner about nine days before that—he said, "I have left these here for Warnecke"—I knew Warnecke—he said Warnecke would call for them—I knew the prisoner when he lodged at Titchfield-street—I was there once or twice, and I have seen Warnecke there—they did not lodge together, but they were in the same lodgings.
FREDERICK TURNER . I am a shoemaker, at 4, Buttesland-street, Hoxton—Warnecke lodges in the same house—I know the prisoner—I have seen him at the house at one time—I have sometimes seen him and Warnecke together—I went to lodge there eight or nine weeks ago—Warnecke was there before me.
CHARLES WALTER MARTIN . I am warehouse manager to Messrs. Oppenheim & Co., of 84, Canon-street—Warnecke was in their employment, and had been about eight months—I had missed a quantity of skins from the stock—in consequence of that I called Warnecke into a part of the warehouse—I afterwards went with the officer to Mr. Lillicrap's, and inspected some muffs and cuffs that were shown to me—they had formed part of a skin that we had missed—it had not been finished; it was not in the state in which it would leave the warehouse if sold—I believe the seal skin before me to be ours; it has our private mark on it, in one of the muffs—I recognise the musquash skins as part of our property—they have also a private mark; it is the letter "O"—I also know them by the peculiarity of the dye—they formed part of the skins we missed—I know them by the peculiar handling of them—Warnecke had no right to take skins out of our warehouse.
Cross-examined. Q. When did you first begin to miss these? A. In February last—Warnecke came into our employment in July—we have missed skins during the whole of that time.
MR. COOPER. Q. What is the value of these seal skins? A. 45s. per skin wholesale price, in their present state—the musquash skins are worth about 1s. 9d., and the racoon tails from 5s. to 6s. a hundred.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.—(The prisoner being a foreigner the evidence was interpreted to him.)
—I keep a little shop there for the sale of things; my brother is the landlord—between 9 and 10 on the night of 16th March I saw that the house was quite safe, when I went to bed—I fastened it myself—a little after 1 o'clock I was disturbed by the policeman—my brother went down to let the police in, and I went down to open the shop door—I found the window partly opened, a pane of glass broken, and the things all disturbed, and a large carving-knife and fork, which had been in the cupboard, left on the window-sill—I am sure the window was shut when I went to bed—it appeared to have been forced open, because it was nailed on each side; I had driven in a nail myself—I saw some marks the next morning—I missed three plated forks, which I had put in a side cupboard the night before; I also missed a box of cakes, which were safe in the house—I think the property is worth about 10s. altogether—these are the things (produced)—they were safe the night before.
GEORGE ATKINS (Policeman, 463 K). On the night of 16th March, about 12 o'clock, I was on duty in Wellington-street, Bow—I saw the prisoner coming towards me—when he saw me, he turned round suddenly and ran in an opposite direction—I followed him—he ran about 500 or 600 yards before I caught him—as he went away I observed him, before I caught him, throw something over a fence—another constable came up and I gave him in charge to him—I went to where I saw him throw something away, to examine, and found three German-silver forks and this crowbar or marline spike—I took him to the station, searched him, and found, in his pocket, these cakes—I afterwards went to a garden close by where I had been, and there found this box, which was empty—I afterwards went to Mrs. Barnes' house and found the window open—a pane of glass near the catch was broken, and there ware marks between the window-ledge and frame where some instrument had been prised in to prise up the window—I compared the crowhere with the marks on the window, and they corresponded—it appeared in be done with a pointed instrument like that.
Prisoner's Defence. When the policeman arrested me I had nothing at all on my person. I am not guilty. GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
KATE HOLCROFT . I am barmaid at the Queen's Hotel, Queen-street, Soho—on 3d April the prisoner brought this ticket for a shilling's worth of drink—Mr. Jordan, whose name appears here, is the secretary of a club using our house—in consequence of the prisoner giving me this order, I gave him a shilling's worth of drink—I had never had such an order before that day (read:) "Please give the bearer a shilling's worth of drink; Mr. Jordan, sixth division.
Prisoner. Q. How do you know I gave you that? A. I am quite sure; I had never seen you before—you were there drinking with other man—I saw you three times altogether; three orders were produced; you only produced the second—it was betwen 3 and 4 o'clock—I did not point out another man before I pointed out you at the station—I gave you in charge.
THOMAS JORDAN . I am secretary to the sixth division of a Bootmaker's Association, which meets at the Queen's Hotel—the signature to this order is not mine—I never authorised anybody to put my name to it—I know nothing of the prisoner till he was given in charge.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you ask Jemmy Downy whether he was the man that got the drink? A. I was fetched over to know if I had given these orders, and if I knew any of the men who were drinking there; I only knew one, and that was Downy—I called him out, but the barmaid said he was not the one that presented the order, and then she stepped across and pointed you out—there were six or seven of you there.
Prisoner's Defence. I was drinking with six or seven shipmates; I know nothing about this order; the barmaid came and pointed out some men before she pointed me out.
NOT GUILTY .
KATE HOLCROFT . After the prisoner had presented the order in the last case he came again and presented a second—this is it (produced)—it might have been 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour after I received the first—I gave him the drink again.
Prisoner. Q. How much did you give me? A. They had a pot of beer, a quartern of gin, and fourpenny worth of bread and cheese—you had some of it—you only came once to me; it was only the second order that you presented—the two who presented the others I could not identify—I cannot say which order it was that you presented—I know it was the second one—I cannot say who presented the others.
NOT GUILTY .
There was another indictment against the prisoner for a like offence, upon which no evidence was offered.
PLEADED GUILTY .—He received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD BURROWS . I am a tailor, at 13, Gilbert-street, Clare-market—on 4th March, about a quarter past 1 in the morning, I was in Broad-street, going home—I met a female, and asked her to show me to Drury-lane—while I was speaking to her the two prisoners, and another person who made his escape, came up—I have not any doubt the prisoners are two of the men—they caught me by the collar and threw me down—it was Dawes who threw me down, and when I was down Hagan and the other who escaped got on the top of me—Hagan twisted the watch from my guard, out of my pocket—it was worth 5l.—the woman was standing there at the time—the policeman came up in time to see them.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE (for Hagan). Q. Did you say it was Dawes who caught you by the collar? A. Yes; and Dawes wrenched the watch from me and gave it to Hagan—he knocked me down—I did not see any persons about me at the time but the female—I had been to see a friend in Lisson-grove, a master baker—I had spent the evening there—I came straight from there home—I did not go to any public-house—it was not at
a public-house I had been spending the evening, but at my friend's own house—I had been drinking a little—I was merely asking the woman the way to Drury-lane—I have lived in Clare Market several years—I did not know my way to Drury-lane just at that time, being a little the worse for liquor—there was a gas-lamp not far from there—I was examined about this matter the next day—I am quite sure that Dawes the man who caught me by the collar, and knocked me down.
Cross-examined by MR. H. GIFFARD (for Dawes). Q. Which is Dawes? A. The one nearest me, in the pilot-jacket—I have never said that it was Hagan took me by the collar.
MR. DICKIE. Q. Are you quite sure these two men were engaged in robbing you? A. Yes; quite sure—I was sober enough to know them—I saw them again directly afterwards at the station.
MARY SMITH . I am the wife of George Smith, painter, of 49, King-street, Long-acre—on 4th March, about half-past 1 o'clock, I was in Broad-street—I met the prosecutor—he asked me which was the way to Drury-lane—he was not sober—as I was telling him the way the two prisoners and another came up—I am sure these are two of the men—I did not know them before—they caught hold of the prosecutor and threw him on the ground, and while he was on the ground Hagan and the one who escaped knelt on him, while Dawes wrenched bis watch from him, and gave it to Hagan—they ran away—I ran after them, and halloed, "Stop thief," and "Police"—the policeman came up and caught him—they were not out of my sight—they were just turning into Drury-lane when they were caught.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Which prisoner was it that caught the prosecutor by the collar? A. Hagan, I think; no, I beg your pardon, I won't say which caught him by the collar; but I know I saw Dawes take the watch from him while he was on the ground—I do not think there were any persons about, only the prisoners, two policemen, and I think two more young men—the prosecutor was not pushed against by the prisoners; he was collared and thrown down—I have never seen the prisoners before—I am quite sure I never lost sight of him—it was just outside the public-house door where the prosecutor was knocked down.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How many were there running altogether? A. Only the three men—the one who escaped was the first to run away, and the two prisoners ran after him—I halloed out, "Stop thief, police; they have taken a man's watch"—I did not chase them many minutes before they were captured.
JAMES GRANGER (Policeman, F 120). On 4th March, about half-past I in the morning, I was in Broad-street and heard a cry of "Police"—I ran to see what was the matter, and as I was going up I saw the prosecutor on the ground, with the two prisoners and another, not in custody, lying on the pavement—just before I got up to them they got up and ran away—I asked Burrows what was the matter—he said he had been robbed of his watch—I ran directly after the prisoners, and we secured the two in Drury-lane—I caught one, and Sergeant Hill stopped the other a little way down Charles-street—they were then taken to the station-house and locked up—I am satisfied they are the two men I saw close to the prosecutor—I took Hagan—he said he knew nothing of it, and I believe the other did to Sergeant Hill.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How far did they run? A. I suppose 200 yards—I had the one in sight as the other turned into Charles-street—I had Hagan in sight—I lost sight of the other—he had turned the
corner about ten or twenty yards—I knew them both before quite well by sight.
THOMAS HILL (Police-sergeant, F 5). On 4th March, about half-past 1 in the morning, I was on duty in Drury-lane, at the corner of Drury-lane I stopped the prisoner Dawes, running as fast as he could from Broad-street, when I stopped him he said, "I did not do it"—I brought him back—I had not accused him of anything—I knew him to be a thief, and I stopped him—I afterwards took him to the station-house.
GUILTY . Dawes was further charged with having been before convicted at Bow-street, on 12th November, 1861, when he was sentenced to one month's imprisonment; to which he
HAGAN**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
DAWES**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN EARL . I live at 15, Pitt-street, and am a wood-sawyer—on Saturday, 1st of last month, I came home about twenty minutes to 12 at night—I found the street-door open, and the prisoner's mother standing at the door calling "murder"—in consequence of what she said I went into the parlour—I had to pass through the shop to do that—I found the prisoner in the parlour—I think I spoke to him first—I said, "Joe; what a fool you are making of yourself; I don't like to see old persons ill used, I have a mother of my own"—he turned and hit me with his left hand, and struck me in the chin—I shoved him back with my left hand—he got back towards the fire-place, took up a poker, and made a thrust at me with it, and sent it through my trousers, drawers and all—I shoved him back—I did not wish to ill use him, because I knew he was not a man that could stand against me in physical force—he then made a cut at my head—I caught the poker with my arms; it struck me here—it must have been rather hot; it caused a blister—I wrenched the poker from him, and threw it down—he caught hold of my neckcloth, and drew it very tight—I slipped my head through it, and got it off—he tried to bite and kick me—I struck him two or three times with my fist, and left him lying in the parlour—the mother said, "Mr. Earl, for God's sake, come out; you do not know what injury he might do"—I went out in the passage; the mother was outside—she locked him in the parlour—within three or four minutes afterwards he goes through the parlour into the shop, and comes into the passage again—a door parts the passage, which opens by a latch-key—he gets the door partly open—I got my feet against it—he put his hand round the door, and said, "Take that you b—"—that is the cut, through waistcoat and all, and here is the throat to show it—it cut my skin, and flesh as well; it wounded me—I have not quite recovered—I cannot get my head round very well—I had to go to the hospital, and a surgeon attended me.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. You gave him a black eye, I believe? A. I struck him pretty hard, as hard as I could—I was not very angry—he had been drinking—I do not know that he has ever done me any harm—I called him "Joe"—this was all over in about four minutes.
ALBERT HUNT . I am house-surgeon at the Middlesex Hospital—I examined last witness on his being brought to the hospital—I found a long wound extending from the back of the neck on to the chin, about eight inches long,
such as might be inflicted by a sharp instrument—it was about a quarter of an inch deep—if it had been a little deeper it would have cut the carotid artery—it was a very narrow escape—it is well now.
Cross-examined. Q. Where did it commence? A. Just at the back of the neck—it did not bleed much.
THOMAS APPLEBY (Policeman, E 47). On the night this happened I was summoned to the house where the prosecutor was—I saw the prisoner sitting in a chair by the side of the fire—he had a small poker in his hand—I told him to get up, and I took it from his hand—I raked out the fire, and found this small knife, almost red hot—the prisoner said, "That is it that did it"—I assisted in taking him to the station—there is a mark on the knife, "J. W."
The prisoner received a good character.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury, believing that the prosecutor had used unnecessary provocation.
Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
408. CHARLES GREENWOOD (25), Stealing the sum of 2d. 10 1/2 d., the moneys of Philip Lewis, his master; also, a lamp, and 137 printed catalogues; also, feloniously forging and uttering a certain receipt for money, with intent to defraud; to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
409. WILLIAM TROWBRIDGE (21), Stealing the sums of 11d., 10d., and 11d., the moneys of Philip Lewis, his master; also, feloniously forging and uttering a certain receipt for money, with intent to defraud; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Fifteen Months.
410. RICHARD MANDINEAU (30), Embezzling and stealing the sums of 13l. 5s., 13l. 1s. 11d., and 11l. 7s. 3d., the moneys of Samuel James Baker his master; also stealing 2l. and other money, of the same person; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
The prisoner's deficiences were stated to be 180l., which he had endeavoured to conceal by false entries.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .
MR. METCALFE stated that the prisoner's first wife had deserted him, and cohabited with other men, and had given him into custody in order to extort terms from the second wife, towards whom he had behaved with the greatest kindness. Fined 1s. and discharged.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, April 8th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. GIBBONS and Mr. COMMON SERGEANT.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment respited.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined twelve months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY . *— Confined Eighteen Months each.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined Twelve Months.
HAYDON— PLEADED GUILTY.**— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN . I was formerly inspector of police, and am now engaged by the Mint—in consequence of information I received I went, on 6th March, to 4, Caroline-place, Whitechapel, at 7 o'clock in the morning, accompanied by Inspectors Fife, Broad, Bryant, and several other officers—the street door was open—I proceeded up stairs; the room door was partially open—I entered, and saw Warner partly sitting on the bed, and Haydon lying on the bed, endeavouring to undress herself—(I had heard a rustling noise as I ascended the stairs)—on the table, which stood near a clear bright fire, I found this plaster of Paris mould (produced) for making shillings, which was quite hot, and this tea-cup, containing fifty-six shillings in an unfinished state, some so hot that I could not hold them—I found this ladle near the fire, containing a small portion of metal quite hot, and two gets quite warm; also some white sand, plaster of Paris, and all the implements of coining—there was no battery; they have got into the habit of electroplating with the assistance of a wire only, which is also produced—here is a pad for holding the mould when hot—I said to Haydon, "Where is Bill?"—
she said, "What Bill, Mr. Brannan?"—I said, "Bill Wybrow"—she said, "I do not know; we were both drunk last night, and were picked up by two men, who brought us here; I was never here before in my life"—I sent for Mrs. Lyons, the landlady, who identified Haydon as having taken the room—she pointed to her and said, "This woman took the room of me"—Haydon said, "It is a lie."
WILLIAM WEBSTER . This is a mould for shillings; here are a great many shillings in this cup; they are all counterfeit, and many of them are out of this mould—these two gets have come out of this mould—here are other things necessary for making and plating counterfeit coin.
ARTHUR ELLIOTT (Policeman, G 13). I was appointed to watch Haydon for some days before she was taken, and have seen her with Warner on many occasions—they were associating together, and occupying rooms in the neighbourhood of Mrs. Lyons—I have watched them more than three weeks.
Warner's defence. I was out all night, and went in to lie down.
WARNER— GUILTY.*— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
CATHERINE TURBERVILLE . I keep the Harper's Arms, Theobald's-road—on 17th March the prisoner came and asked me for half a pint of porter—he then altered his mind, and said that he would have a glass of six ale, and put down a half-crown—I tried it with my teeth, bent it, and said that it was bad—he said, "God's truth!" and I handed it back to him—he took it up—I asked him where he took it, and he said in change of half a sovereign—he paid me a penny, and said that he would pay the halfpenny another time when he was passing, and I let him go—on the 20th he came again—I was not serving; but my barmaid said to me, in the prisoner's presence, that it was bad, and I saw a bad half-crown in her hand—he was given in charge.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. What would the glass of porter have come to? A. 1d.—he then altered his mind—there was a man who I knew well there; and there may have been one person besides—it was between 10 and 11 at night—the exclamation, "God's truth!" was in astonishment.
JANE BONE . I am barmaid at the Harpers-arms—I saw the prisoner give a half-crown to the landlady on 17th March—I also examined it, and found it bad—it was given back to him—he drank what he had, paid 1d. and left, after standing there half an hour—on the 20th he came again, and called for three-halfpenny worth of gin, and gave me half a crown—I tried it in the detector, and found it was bad—I called out to my mistress, and a constable was sent for, and the prisoner was given in charge with the half-crown.
Cross-examined. Q. How many minutes was he there on the 17th? A. About half an hour—he was quite sober—the half-crown was given back to him at once—there were two or three customers there—when I told him on Thursday that it was bad, he said, "God's truth!" the same expression that he had used on the Monday—he said on the Monday that he had it in change for a half-sovereign—this (produced) is not the half-crown he produced on the Monday, because it was bent double—I also bent the one on the Thursday.
MR. COOKE. Q. When you received it was it apparently a perfect one? A. Yes—I bent it in the detector—I knew him again.
The prisoners father gave him a good character.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD DANIEL . I keep a stationer's shop in King-street, Covent-garden—the prisoner came on 15th February, asked for a pound's worth of postage stamps, and produced a sovereign—I held the stamps in my hand until I saw whether the coin was good or not—I handed it to my assistant, who stood close by—he is not here—he handed it back to me, and I saw that it was bad—I sent for a constable and gave the prisoner in charge, with the sovereign which I marked.
GEORGE CANN (Policeman, F 112). I took the prisoner on 15th February, and received this sovereign (produced)—the prisoner gave his name Thomas Clark—he was remanded for a week, and was discharged on Monday, 24th February.
EBENEZER JACKS . I keep a chemist's shop at 11, Gower-street north—on 11th March, between 9 and 10 in the morning, the prisoner came for two dozen and a half of postage stamps—he gave me a half-crown—I instantly detected that it was bad, and required another—he emptied his pockets and said he had not got another—I had given him the stamps—I kept my eye on him while I went into the adjoining room to call my assistant—he threw down the stamps, opened the door, and ran away—I followed, and caught him—he resisted, and got away; but I overtook him, and gave the half-crown to the policeman.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
424. GEORGE FRASI (56), Feloniously forging and uttering an acceptance to a bill of exchange for 82l. 6s. with intent to defraud; to which he PLEADED GUILTY ; and received a good character.— Confined Fifteen Months
MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
DAVID SMITH . On 3d March I was in the Green Gate tavern, City-road, wiith a person named Allison, and the prisoner—I was standing in front of the bar, and gave Allison a shilling to fetch a pot of beer—the prisoner said, "Stop; I will pay for the pot of beer"—he gave Allison a shilling, and Allison gave the prisoner my shilling.
JAMES ALLISON . I was with the last witness—I have heard what he said—it is correct—after I got the shilling from the prisoner, I took it to the bar and asked for some ale—the prisoner was standing within a few strides of the bar—the barmaid served me; and when I gave her the shilling she said, "How many have you of these?"—the landlord came round in front of the bar, and I told him that the prisoner had given me the shilling—I pointed him out, and he was given in custody.
SARAH ANN CHARLWOOD . I am barmaid at the Green Gate tavern, kept by Mr. Anderson—on 31st March, Allison came and asked for a pot of ale, which came to 6d.—he gave me a bad shilling, and I asked him how many he had got—he asked me what I meant, and I called for Mr. Anderson, and gave it to him—I saw him give the same shilling to the policeman.
WILLIAM ANDERSON . I was called in, and received a shilling from the barmaid—the prisoner was pointed ont to me, and I asked him if he had got any more of that sort of coin—he said, "That is what your friend gave me"—the prisoner had pleaded poverty, and this man gave him a shilling—I said, "You are a bad man to say such a thing; he is a respectable gentleman; I am sure he would not give you bad money"—he expressed a wish to go to the water-closet—I followed him, and he chucked something away—I saw his hand move, and heard something clink against the wall—the policeman and I searched and found a bad shilling—I gave the prisoner in charge.
HENRY DODD (Policeman, G 142.) I took the prisoner, and received this shilling from Mr. Anderson—I searched the prisoner and found on him a good shilling and twopence—I took him to the station, went back to Mr. Anderson, made a search in the direction he told me, and found this bad shilling (produced)—next morning, as I was taking him to the Thomas police-court, he said that he was an old fool to be beginning the game again; for the last time he was convicted of the same thing they almost killed him.
Prisoner's Defence. A gentleman gave me the shilling to mind a horse for him; and another gentleman gave me another in the landlord's house; that is how I came by the two shillings.
He was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court of a like offence in April, 1861, when he was sentenced to Nine Months' imprisonment, to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
STONE— PLEADED GUILTY.*— Confined Six Months.
MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN , junior (Police-sergeant, G 21). On 28th March I was on duty in Central-street, St. Luke's, and saw the prisoners, whom I had known for two months, ten or twelve yards from me—Stone was looking in another direction—Grimm caught sight of me, and knowing me well, he touched Stone on the arm, who immediately turned round, placed his hand in his trousers' pocket, and lifted up his arm in this position—I ran towards him, and pushed them both into the shop, No. 52, Central -Street—I said to Stone, "Give me that which you put up your arm, Mr. Stone;" and he handed me these three counterfeit sixpences (produced)—I kept them two or three minutes in the shop, and took them both in custody—on the way to the station I handed Grimm to another policeman, and while passing by No. 3, Central-street, Stone threw some sixpences into the passage of that shop—I called Mr. Brant, the occupier, and asked him to give me those sixpences—he handed me these three counterfeit sixpences (produced)—I said to Stone, "What did you throw them away for?"—he said, "They are no use to me now"—they were both taken to the station and charged—Stone said, "We are both guilty"—Grimm said I wanted him to run but he would not—I found on Grimm this pocket-book containing names and addresses of wellknown dealers in counterfeit coin, some of whom have been tried in this Court, and some are now under the observation of the force; also a song or some
poetry which refers to my father; it is to the tune of "The Dying Soldier."
GEORGE BRANT . I am a picture frame maker, of 3, Central-street—on 28th March, I saw the constable passing my door—he asked me to see what was thrown on the ground—I picked up three counterfeit sixpences and gave them to him.
(Grimm's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows;) "I met Stone about a quarter of an hour before we met Brannan, and Stone asked me to go with him."
GRIMM— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
HANNAH BROWN . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop, at St. Andrew's-hill—on Thursday, 6th March, I came out of the parlour into the shop to serve the prisoner who came and asked for a quarter of an ounce of tobacoo, the value of which was 3/4d.—he gave me a good half-crown, and I gave him 2s. and 5 1/4 d. in copper—I laid the two shillings on the counter carelessly—they were separate, one was not on the top of the other—the prisoner then laid down a penny and said, "Take it out of that"—my suspicions were then raised that something was wrong—he said, "Give me back my half-crown"—on his saying that, I cast my eye upon the shillings I had put down, and saw that a bad one lay on the top of the good one that I had given him—they were still on the counter, but not exactly in the position in which I had placed them—I said, "I see through this, you have laid a bad shilling on the top of my good one"—I have every reason to believe that the two shillings I gave the prisoner were good—my husband heard me say that he had given me a bad shilling, and he came forward, snatched the bad shilling from my hand, which the prisoner before that had tried to get from me, but had not succeeded—I had taken it up—at the time the prisoner was offering the penny, I saw his hand more, but I had no suspicion until he said, "Give me back the half-crown"—he was standing quite close to the two shillings.
Prisoner. Q. Are you quite sure I am the man? A. Yes; quite sure—it was about half-past 6 o'clock, on the 6th of March, when you came in—I looked at the two shillings before I gave them out—they were two good ones—I did not try them in any way—I cannot say whose reign they were of—you laid the penny down, and I took back the good and bad shillings—I did not put them on the counter again, I kept them in my hand—my husband took the bad one from me—you would have been glad to have got them again—you tried hard for them—why did you run away?
MR. CRAWFORD. Q. What do you mean by saying, "Why did you run away? A. When the prisoner found he could not get the money he bolted out of the shop and my husband after him.
NORMAN HENRY BROWN . I heard my wife charge the prisoner with the shilling being bad, that he had rung the changes, and I came forward and took the bad shilling from my wife's hand, and told him that it was bad—I proceeded to try it in the detector—he endeavoured to take it from my hand as I was in the act of trying it, and not succeeding, he bolted, and I went after him—he was running away fast—I did not catch him—he was stopped by a policeman in plain clothes, and I gave him in charge with the bad shilling.
Prisoner. Q. When did you see me last? A. The 6th of March, at half-past 6 in the evening—I am quite sure you are the man—when you came in I was in the parlour getting my tea—I noticed no money on the counter—I took the tad shilling from my wife (the witness's deposition being read stated "I came forward directly, I seized the shilling which was on the counter")—my wife was holding the money in this way, and I took it from her hand in haste—I tried it then in the detector, and after that you ran out—you did not say that you would summons me the next day when you were sober, for the rest of your half-crown—I do not remember anything of it—I took the shilling to the station-house—I did not lose sight of it—it is the same.
MR. CRAWFORD. Q. Was your wife taking it up from the counter at the time you seized it? A. She held it in her hand—she had just charged him with changing it—I took it from her hand, and he attempted to get it from me, but did not succeed—it was close on to the counter, and I took it and kept it till I got to Fleet-street.
SAMUEL GREENFIELD (City-policeman, 367). I was on duty in Upper Thames-street on the evening of 6th March, and saw the prisoner stopped by a policeman in plain clothes, and a lighterman—Mr. Brown gave him into my charge—just before I got hold of him, I saw him drop this good shilling (produced) which was picked up and given to me at the time by the plain clothes officer—I did not lose sight of it—I took him with the plain clothes officer till I met a policeman in uniform, and directly after he took hold of him he was very troublesome, kicked the other one, and then shifted about, and put his hand in his pocket and threw out some more money—I stooped down and saw something, I could not tell what it was—I got the plain clothes officer to pick it up, and it was two penny-pieces—I took him to the station-house—when he was in the dock, and the inspector was taking the charge, he put his hand in his pocket again and dropped this good 2s. piece (produced)—I picked it up—these (produced) are the two pennies—he was searched and a halfpenny found on him—Mr. Brown gave me this counterfeit shilling (produced) at the station-house.
JURY. Q. Was the prisoner sober? A. He had been drinking a little—he was not so drunk but that he knew what he was doing—he was running quite fast when they stopped him—I saw him run when I was down at the other end.
Prisoner. Q. Do you swear that you never lost sight of the 1s. 2d. which was picked up from the ground? A. Yes; when you were in the dock at the station, I placed the 1s. 2d. on the desk before the inspector to take charge of it, and you reached over and took it up, and had it in your hand—you did not put it in your pocket—you said that the one shilling that laid on the desk and the twopence was the change out of the half-crown.
Prisoner. I told you to stand off, that I would not give it up till I heard what kind of a shilling it was that the female witness, Mrs. Brown, had lost; you said, "You had better give the shilling up again;" I said, "No, I shall not yet, till I understand the case, and you are bound to tell me true because I am tipsy;" and the inspector said, "Give me back the shilling, Mr. Connell, and it wont go hard with you;" is that right? Witness. The station-sergeant did say so; it was not an inspector—I did say, "Well, I don't suppose the prosecutor will press the charge against you"—you did not then give me back the shilling without any reluctance—the station-sergeant had to come out and take it out of your hand—you did not take it from the desk and put it into your pocket—I never heard the Alderman at Guildhall tell me that I ought not to be in the force—when proceeding to the station
another constable came up—the shilling dropped out of your pocket before that—the two-shilling piece did not drop out when you took out your pocket handkerchief—I took your handkerchief out of your breast-pocket—you were not tipsy—you had been drinking, but you knew what you were about—had not been drinking very much—I had the 1s. 2d. in my hand, and I had to lay it in front of the inspector on the desk, and you reached over and took it up, and would not give it up; the station-sergeant had to come and help to take it out of your hand.
Prisoner's Defence. The witness, Henry Brown, has sworn to a falsehood; he says he took the shilling off the counter, and the woman says she had them in her hand and never let them out of her hand; they lay on the counter, and all the time we were talking about them I could have taken them up off the oounter and gone about my business if I had liked; not being guilty, I let them lay there. She does not say she saw me touch the shillings, and I never handled them. She never marked or weighed the money, or sounded it, or tried it in the detector. She does not say what sort of shillings they were, Victoria, or William, or George the Third; she does not know whether they were good or bad. She say, "I think they were two good ones." The shilling that dropped out of my pocket was my own, and if it had not been I should never have given it up, but they held out a promise to me that they would not press the charge against me if I would give it up; I gave it np willingly. If ever there was a man sent to this Court innocent, I am that man, and as for running I was too tipsy to run. I had gone half way down the street when the prosecutor left the shop. He came up to me; I shoved him off with my-right hand, I never ran at all. He says I took it off the counter. That is a falsehood, and if he will say that he will say anything. I have got a respectable hard-working wife. I gave correct address, and the policeman saw my home, a clean respectable looking home. I have a family. I have no occasion to do such things. If I had done what a cunning man would have done, I should have put the had shilling under the good one, and not the bad shilling at the top.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
GEORGE HOBBS (Policeman, G 233). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, April, 1868, William Connell, convicted of feloniously uttering counterfeit coin.—Sentenced to Four Years' Penal Servitude.) I was present at the trial—I had him in custody—I am quite certain the prisoner is the man who was then tried—he gave the name of Francis Vandyke when I had him.
Prisoner. I acknowledge to the name of Vandyke but not of Connell.
GUILTY.**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, April 9th, 1862.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Baron WILDE; Mr. Ald. ROSE; Mr. Ald. PHILLIPS; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Baron Wilde.
428. CHLOM REICHBERG (45), ABRAHAM JOSEPHSON (32), and WOLFF HARWITZ (22), were indicted for feloniously having in their possession, without the authority of the Emperor of Russia, certain copper Plates, stones, and other materials, upon which were engraved certain parts of a Russian promissory note.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE SCOTT . I am one of the detective officers of the City—on 11th January, in the present year, I was with Brett and Legg, two other detective officers, in the Minories—while there I saw Reichberg and Harwitz—I took Harwitz into custody, and Brett took Reichberg—they were both together—I told them we apprehended them for forging Russian rouble notes—they did not make any reply at that time—I conveyed Harwitz to the station and there searched him—I found this type on him in this brown paper (produced) in his trousers pocket—the type has a figure on it—the brass is the numbers and the type is the border—there is some brass and some type metal, when put together it forms an ornamental border—Reichberg was searched by Brett—I was present but I did not see him search him—on the next day I went with Brett and Legg to a house, No. 28, Primrose-street, Bishopsgate—this was on Sunday, 12th January—on going there I saw the prisoner Josephson standing at the door—I told him we were officers, and wanted to have a few words with him—he took us up to the first floor—I told him we wanted to put some questions to him, and the answers he gave us might be made use of as evidence against him—I then asked him if he knew a person of the name of Reichberg, living at No. 12, Haberdasher-place, Hoxton—he said he did—I asked him if he had done any business with him—he said, "Yes"—I asked him what business—he said that Reichberg was a diamond-setter, and had done several things for him in that business—I then asked him if he ever got any copper or zinc plates engraved for Reichberg—he said, "No, never"—I said, "We must search your place"—he said, "Oh, yes; search anywhere you please"—"By-the-bye," he said, "I must tell you about three months ago, I was in Liverpool, where I met a man named Mercer, who asked me my name and address, which I gave him; he then gave me a zinc plate which had some engraving on it, and asked me if I could get a copper plate engraved like it in London; I said I would try; he also gave me a copper plate of the size that he wanted the impression done, as a pattern. I brought it to London, and took it to London-wall and got it engraved"—I asked him where it was—he said, "Oh, I have not got it; I sent him a proof from it on paper, addressed, 'Post Restante, Liverpool," at the same time he brought this plate from the cupboard, and said, "Here it is"—he pulled it from under some paper in the cupboard—I asked him where the copper plate was that he had got as a pattern—he said he had sent that to the gentleman, who promised to call and see him, but he had never seen him since—I then took him into custody, and took him to the station—this is the plate that he so produced—I had previously gone to 12, Haberdasher-place—after leaving him at the station I went there again and searched—I have stated what I found there—that was on the Monday, about 10 o'clock in the morning—there was Andrews, the landlord, there, and Brett, my brother officer, and Inspector Leonard—I found a great quantity of engraving tools, which are here, some colouring matter for printing, and all these other things which are produced—here is a galvanic battery, tools of all kinds, chemicals, gutts percha, and wax for taking impressions—they were found in the second-floor front room, on the table, and in different parts, in the drawers and boxes—I also found this paper, cut into sizes, ready for printing—I afterwards went to 6, Bevington-street, that is a place also occupied by Reichberg—I there found a letter-press, and a very heavy press which I do not know the name of; they are here—they were in the cellar or kitchen underground—on Monday, 13th, I went to 65, Lower Thames-street, where a person of the name of Sanskowski had an office—I there found a copying press, which is
here—I had previously seen that press four or five days before, at 12, Haberdasher-place—it was being conveyed to that house, and I saw it in the house—I saw the prisoner Reichberg accompanying it to the house—Sanskowski took me to No. 3, Mitre-square, Aldgate, his residence, and he took from a drawer in his bedroom there this piece of gutta-percha—it contained this plate, but the plate was not visible then—I subsequently held it to the fire and developed the plate which is now produced—I have retained it in my possesion ever since, with the exception of the times I have had to produce it in court—on 16th January I went to No. 7, Somerset-street, Aldgate, that is a house occupied by a person of the name of Kattowski—I went to the back room on the ground floor—in consequence of information I had received, I searched in that room and examined some of the pictures there—I took down a picture of Garibaldi, which I produce, and on taking the backboard from that picture I discovered these sixty-five forged ten rouble Russian notes which I produce—Brett found a brass plate in a cupboard in that room; it has a figure "10" upon it, which is used for the water mark of the note—before the prisoner's were taken into custody I had seen them for something like two months—I had seen Harwitz and Reichberg repeatedly in the streets, and at their houses—I have seen them at the houses of Reichberg, where Harvitz was almost a daily visitor, sometimes there would be some week elapse, or a fortnight perhaps, and then Reichberg was out of the country—when he was in town they were together daily—I have seen Reichberg and Harwitz go to 6, Bevington-street together only once—I have seen them myself for about three months—Brett has seen them longer.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST (for Reichberg). Q. Are the tools you found at Haberdasher-place such as are used by a diamond-setter or a jeweller? A. That I cannot tell—I am not acquainted with the sort of tools used by a diamond-setter—I never saw any to my knowledge—none of the things were concealed—Reichberg had evidently done some work there—things were lying about just as if they had been used—there was no concealment at all—I only know by hearsay what countryman he is—he spoke English very imperfectly.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON (with MR. LLOYD for Josephson). Q. Had you this conversation with Joesphson at his own lodgings? A. Yes; I believe he had not the whole house, only the first-floor back and front rooms—to took me on to the first-floor—he did not tell me at that time that he was a travelling jeweller—he told me that he was a jeweller at that time, and afterwards he told me he was a travelling and working jeweller—he did not say that it was in the course of his travels that he received this order about the plate at Liverpool—he said he was at Liverpool—he handed me the plate—he did not tell me that plate was given him by the person at liverpool—he said he gave him a copper plate the size of that that he wanted done—he said the person gave him the engraving on zinc, and also gave him a copper plate, and on the copper plate he was to get engraved that which was on the zinc—I did not find any zinc plate—he said he had sent it back—nothing was said about the coming Exhibition—this is exactly in the same sate as when I got it from him, with the exception of some proofs having been pulled from it—I saw his jewel-case in the room—he took this plate from a cupboard at the side of the fire-place—his wife was in the room, no children—I do not know that he has been living there sometime; he had been there the time we had been watching; three or four months—I commenced to watch somewhere in November, others had been watching before that—I cannot say that he has been there all the time I was watching—I found nothing but the jewel-case having reference to his trade.
Harwitz. Q. Did not I ask you what you took me for? A. Yes; you asked me I should say a dozen times going along, and I repeatedly told you the types that I found in your pocket were wrapped in paper, and the packet was sealed—I found a key in your pocket, of 4, Little Prescott-street, and another key also—I believe the landlord of 6, Bevington-street will speak to that—I told the Lord Mayor that I found a key in your pocket belonging to 6, Bevington-street—I found some papers in your pocket—I cannot read them—it is some foreign correspondence—it appeared to me to be Hebrew—I do not know whether it was Russian—I am not familiar with Russian characters.
JAMES BRETT . I am a detective officer of the City—at the latter end of last year, I was communicated with, with reference to some persons who were obtaining engravings—in consequence of that I watched the three prisoners; at the latter part of the time I was generally in company with the witness Scott—I began the watching and Scott assisted me subsequently—I produce certain articles which have been referred to by Scott—here are three impressions from a plate which I found in a box at 12, Haberdasher-place, where the bulk of those things were found—they were in a book in Reichberg's room—I also found a paper impression of an eagle, on a table in the same room—it was lying openly on the table, and in another book I found a piece of metal with Russian characters upon it—it is a thin piece of copper—in this box, which I took from under the bed, I found a quantity of wax, which had originally formed a square; and on examining that wax I found Russian characters on some of it—it is all here, but it is broken now—it would have formed a square about this size—I also found a small box of red ink—also a plain brass plate—I was present when the other things, which have been spoken to, were found—when I took Reichberg into custody, on the 11th, I found on him two 100 rouble notes, two ten rouble notes, some papers, and that which forms the back border of a 10 rouble note—the 100 rouble notes, and the 10 rouble notes are good—at 6, Bevington-street, I found this card, on the letter-press—I went there with the other officer—I removed this piece of parchment from the fly-press—it is part of the letter-press belonging to the larger press now produced, which was found in the cellar at 6, Bevington-street—Scott took a key out of Harwitz's pocket—it did not fit any look, because the lock had been taken off, but the landlord said it would fit the lock that was on at the time they took the place—at 7, Somerset-place, I found the water-mark plate that has been produced by Scott.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Was Reichberg present when you searched Haberdasher-place and found these things? A. No; he was in custody.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Did you watch Josephson's house? A. I did; I began to do so on 9th November, and I watched it from that time till he was in custody, occasionally—I was not always watching it.
MR. BEST. Q. Do you know whether these are jeweller's tools that were found there? A. I should say, certainly not—they are very heavy tools—hammers, and such things as would not be used by a jeweller, I should think—there are a great number of engraving tools and punches.
JAMES WOOD . I carry on business, in partnership, in West Smithfield, as an engraver and type founder—on or about the 5th October last, the prisoner Reichberg and another man called—I did not speak to him on that occasion, some one else did—I saw him again about 17th or 18th of October—he was then accompanied by Harwitz—all the conversation with Reich
berg took place through Harwitz—he acted as interpreter—they produced an engraved steel punch, and asked me to strike it into a copper matrix—it was an ornamental punch, the back of a 10 rouble note—when put together the pieces would form the border of a 10 rouble note—the types were cast more than sufficient to go round the border—they had five or six pounds of border—the punch was exactly similar to that one (produced)—it is made in steel, and struck into a piece of copper, and any number of types, similar to these, are cast from it—it corresponds in all its characteristics with the types here—they asked me to cast them four or five pounds weight of type, and I engaged with them as to price, which was our usual list price—they left the order with me to be executed—they called again a few days afterwards—I had the order then executed for them—I gave them the type which I had manufactured, and they paid me for it and went away—two or three days after I had another visit from them—they brought me the type, stating that it was not close enough together; that it spread out too much—after some conversation that day they left, and came again the next day, and there was a further order for some figures—it in not in brass—it was like this impression—I made it of type metal—here is one of them mixed up with the border—this is a figure "3"—this paper was left with me as a pattern, for the purpose of making up a printer's form—it would take about 120 pieces of the type placed together to form that—they produced this to show me how it ought to be—that writing was on it when I received it—they also left this piece of card with me to show the size—after having received these explanations from them, I went on with the work in their absence, and they both called again about 6th November—I then had the border ready—I think I had better refer to my notes now—my suspicions were aroused on 6th November, and I gave information to the police, and commenced making notes of every thing afterwards—they produced a small piece of paper on which was an impression of a Russian eagle, precisely the same size as on a genuine rouble note, as far as I can judge by afterwards seeing a genuine note—they asked me if I could engrave that—I told them "Yes"—they ordered it to be engraved—a few minutes afterwards, I think about ten minutes, Harwitz came back and requested the pattern—he said that the other, alluding to Reichberg (I did not know their names then), was a beautiful engraver, and that he had altered his mind, and would engrave it himself—I gave the pattern back to him—I next saw Reichberg alone about the 9th of November—on the previous visits Harwitz had acted as interpreter—when Reichberg called alone on this occasion he spoke English quite intelligibly to me—he produced a piece of coloured printing, and asked if I could make him some printing-ink of that colour—it was crimson ink—I and one of my men mixed a few samples and pulled some impressions to show him what could be done—he said it was not good enough, there was not enough fire in the colour—I had been pulling off some on our own paper, and he produced some paper out of his pocket, the size of which I know to be the size of a 10 rouble note, because we had some of them left—he requested it to be pulled upon that paper, and that altered the colour again; it did not look so well on his paper, and he wanted the form altered—I complained that it was not a paper that it should be done on, and he said, "Oh! this is bank-Paper; I want it tried on this paper"—two of my men were present at the time—I did not suit him at last—he asked me if I had a copper-plate press that I could sell him—I told him I had one, and I walked with him round to our stores to show it to him—he did not buy it—it was too large—he ordered
a small one, a new one—I had not any in stock, and I subsequently procured it for him—I did not supply it to him—I supplied him with a letter-press—I made the border as you see there—it was scarcely the size he required—he wanted it to come in a little closer—I filled in two of these types halfway, so as to put one half in the border on each side, and I said, "I will take this out, as your border will be exactly the size you refer to"—he said, "Oh! no; I must have the halves in," and on looking at a genuine note I see that the halves are in there—this paper was pulled in my establishment from the border which I made for them, and these pencil marks at the side indicate the places where it was altered; where the half pieces were placed—this is the type as completed—these punches are the figures for numbering—Reichberg gave them to me to make types from—before types can be produced a punch has to be made, and then the metal type is produced from that—Reichberg brought me this piece of paper, which has figures on it, to show me how close they were to come together—I think there were eleven punches altogether, and according to those punches I cast the type—this is a proof taken from the type cast from the punches which he gave me—the 11th November was the next time I saw them—they were not quite ready then, and they called again on the 14th—on that day they were completed, late in the afternoon—on that occasion they purchased from me a type-holder, which is adapted to take type and hold it in form for the purpose of printing from it—I did not sell them the type-holder—they never had it; they ordered it—on 15th November Reichberg and Harwitz called about 1 o'clock, and paid a further deposit on the press, paid for the border and figures, took them away with them, and took away the figure punches, and had the matrixes four and five altered—on the 18th Harwitz called alone—when the account was made up I had occasion to ask what name I should make it out in, and he said, "Wolf"—on that occasion the press was taken away by Watson, one of my men, by my direction—Harwitz accompanied him with it—they left my place together—I have seen that press here to-day; it is the letter-press with the brass top—this parchment is the tympanum of that letter-press, and there is an impression on that of the figures, and also of the border.
COURT. Q. Can you say by looking at that, that that press has been used for the purpose of taking impressions both of the type you made for the border, and the type you made for the figures? A. Exactly so.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. When did you first begin to make these memoranda? A. On 6th November—Reichberg had been there several times previous to that—I had communicated with the police before making these notes—I think the notes were made at their suggestion.
Harwitz. Q. To whom did you deliver the types? A. I think you were both present when you had them—I think the first lot was delivered to you; but I won't speak positively—I know one lot Reichberg had, because that was when he came alone—you acted as interpreter for Reichberg—I think the second lot was delivered to Reichberg, but I do not know—I did not ask you your name—I asked what name I should put on the invoice—I made no memorandum until 6th November—I made the memorands because I suspected that you were forging some foreign note—I gave information to the police, and they were of the same opinion as myself, and after that I immediately made memoranda after every time you called—I made a matrix for you—when I was before the Lord Mayor I answered the questions that were put to me—I stated that you visited me between the 1st and 2d of November—you visited me on the 9th, Saturday—I did not
see either of you between the 6th and Saturday, the 9 th—I had no suspicion on the last or 2d.
JAMES WATSON . I am in the employ of Mr. Wood—on 18th November last, I took one of these presses from Mr. Wood's premises, to No. 6, Bevington-street—Harwitz accompanied me—I placed the press in the kitchen of that house.
EBENEZER COX . I am a typographic engraver, at No. 6, Upper South-ampton-steet, Pentonville—I know the prisoners Harwitz and Reichberg—they came to my place on 8th October—I showed them some, specimens at their request—they gave no names at that time—Reichberg produced a pattern—this (produced) is not the pattern—that is the proof that I furnished after the work was done—I engraved something from the pattern which they gave me—a few days afterwards, I believe on the 14th of October, Reichberg called alone—I showed him this proof—it contains a piece of the border of a ten rouble note—I have seen one since, and compared them—a day or two afterwards, I think almost the very next day, Reichberg and Harwitz called, and on that occasion they produced a piece of gutta percha—this is it—I was to cut alphabets for these three sizes, and also another alphabet of a larger size, a pattern of which he would furnish me with—there was to be 150 in all; 150 punches for the purpose of making types from—I have forgotten to name that on the 14th Reichberg also asked me if I could cut eagles—I said, "Oh! yes; anything"—they were both together when the piece of gutta percha was given to me—Reichberg requested me to cut two or three of the punches as specimens—they frequently visited me between the 10th and the 18th—a day or two aferwards I think Reichberg called alone, and then he produced an ornamental coloured border similar to one upon a Russian rouble note, which he asked me to engrave—certain portions of this border had been cut out—he engaged to have the engine-turned parts done, and only requested me to do the other part—he was also to furnish the paper ready prepared—I engaged to do my part for 3l.—I did not do it—he took the pattern away with him, without saying anything about it—I had got a Russian alphabet at that time—this is it (produced)—he supplied me with it—he wrote that on the 18th—he also supplied me with a Russian book some time afterwards, so as to enable me to manage the letters properly—it was impossible to do it without—Harwitz called on me again in the beginning of November, and produced the impressions of two Russian eagles—these are them—I was to engrave them—I was to have 8l. for the two—that would be a low price—he brought me to a lower figure than paid me—I found the pattern was not food enough, it was so indistinct, I could not produce a good eagle from it—I communicated that to both of them—Harwitz and Reichberg called, I think, in a day or two, and they produced this—that is a better pattern—this gutta percha has the impression of a coin—they also produced a silver coin, and also a small Russian eagle, very much better than the, other, to tell how the different pieces were to be done—the shields were to very indifferent on the one they brought me that I could not make anything of it—this was to give me an idea of the quartering of the shields, and so on—I struck off a proof, and was to send a further proof to St. Martin's-legrand—Harwitz had told me that Reichberg's name was Hart—he did not my what his own name was, but I received this letter from him in the name of Wolff, after the order for the eagle—after I had received that letter Harwitz came to me—it was on the following Monday—he asked if I had received letter from him, and I said I had—(Letter reead:"Calais 13—12
—61. Dear Sir,—I beg of you to send to me, under the enclosed address two copies of the two eagles, however they may be done or undone, as I want to show your work, which will be for your advantage; hoping you will comply without delay with my request, I remain with regard, yours, WOLFF. The enclosed address is the place where I reside. If you cannot send the two copies until Saturday, at 4 o'clock, you do not want to send them at all, as I will leave Calais next Sunday afternoon, and if I do not deserve to receive of you this favour, at least send me a few lines. We receive letters in France on Sunday, and, therefore, if you send an answer on Saturday before 4 o'clock, I shall receive it on next Sunday morning.")—I told him the large eagle was not in a sufficiently forward state, and he called again on the Thursday—I did not at any time give him any proofs of the large eagle—I did of the small one.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. You say you were shown by Reichberg patterns of eagles, did you give those patterns back again to him? A. No; I kept them uutil I gave them up to the solicitor—they have been produced to-day—I have had possession of all the patterns that have been shown me to-day.
Harwitz. Q. Who came to you first? A. I think it was Reichberg—I did not make a memorandum—I made the usual memorandum in my book—you were the interpreter; but Reichberg, I believe, gave me the order—I asked 4l. or 5l. in brass, and 9l. or 10l. in steel—he offered me 8l.—I agreed to do them for 8l.—I took 2l. deposit from him, and I afterwards had 2l. on account—I did not write any letter to Reichberg—I did not call him by his name, or ask his name—I can't say exactly in what manner you told me his name—I did not ask it; you told me on one of those interviews—I only knew your name was Wolff from the letter I received—I made the punches for 4l. 6s.—I received 30s. for the border punch, and a few shillings for the matrix—Reichberg took the punch away, and he also borrowed a small punch to show his friend—I made them for Reichberg; you acted as interpreter: I looked upon you in no other light—Reichberg asked me the price, and we agreed for 30s.
JOHN GIRLING . I am servant to Mr. Roberts, a printer, of 41, Tabernacle-walk—Harwitz and Reichberg called at Mr. Roberts' at the latter end of September—I saw them—Harwitz was spokesman—they came to ask the price of printing 1,000 copies of a form—he described the size on a piece of paper—I have not got that—it was merely a piece of waste paper that was lying on the desk at the time—I told him that the price would be about 4s. a thousand—he said he would call again—about the beginning of October Reichberg came alone, and produced this—it is a border similar to that on the back of a Russian rouble note—it is set up in an iron frame, what we call a form—I took some proofs of it—Reichberg examined it—he made an objection to it on account of their not being sufficiently close together—I said I would try to remedy that defect for him, which I did by taking out the side piece that is now here, and substituting an oblong piece of metal; but I found it would not justify; that is, it would not come close enough together so as to give a just or true impression—in about a fortnight Reichberg came again, and brought a fresh quantity of type to substitute for that which was in the first frame—that would not do either—he told me he was going to exhibit it at the Great Exhibition—I noticed some half and quarter pieces of border—he called my attention to them, said that it was to place them in their respective positions, the same as they were in the first form—that would have brought out a similar representation to what is on
that paper—he asked me whether I know a type founder—I gave him the name of Messrs. Caslon and Co.—about the litter end of November I saw them again—I then pulled some proofs from a fresh form—Reichberg produced the form—I have not got it, or any of the proofs—there it what we term a make-ready sheet—Reichberg objected to my filing it—it was an impression from a glythographic block—it was an impression of some foreign characters—I gave it up to him—that was at the beginning of December—I did not supply him with any paper.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. You did not know what the foreign characters were, did you? A. I did not.
Harwitz. Q. Did not you state before the Lord Mayor that I was only there once? Witness. That was the only time I recollect; you were there the first time.
WILLIAM JAMES BALL . I am assistant to Mr. Bettaridge, pressmaker of 47, Old Bailey—in the commencement of August last, Reichberg called at Mr. Betteridge's—I believe the first time he called, he wanted me to make him a steel or brass plate—he gave me the size—it was the size of this (the brass plate)—there were to be two brass plates, both plain—he also ordered a hundred type and four "No's," "N," and a small "o" at the top—he wanted ten sets in all, consisting of figures, each up to 10; not different sizes, all one size; and four type keys, adapted to fit tbe type—I executed that order for him—on 13th August he took the articles away, and paid me for them—in September, I believe, Reichberg called again—on that occasion he gave me an order for the figure "10" cut in steel—this is it—the plates were quite plain when he received them—Reichberg took them away—I saw him again two or three days after he received the plates in September—he had ordered some plates in August, but not these—in September he ordered these two—I made both of these; but they were both plain when Reichberg received them—two or three days after he took these plates away, he brought a paper bag, and wanted to know if we could cut one similar to what if on the plate—I did not do that, and he received the pattern back—some days afterwards, Reichberg called and produced some paper, I should think about a ream, and wished it out up—some of it is here—I cut it for him, and he took it away with him—when he brought the paper, he laid it one way, and wished the whole of the water-mark to be cut off—the water-mark is on the bottom of the paper; it occupies about 2 inches or 2 1/2 inches—I have a portion of the water-mark here—I preserved it.
JAMES SKINNER . I carry on business as a photographer, at 47, Lower Whitecross-street—in November last, Reichberg and Harwitz called on me—they produced a copper-plate, and asked me to make two electrotypes of it—this is it—I said I could not do it perfect except it was left with me—they said they could not leave it, they had borrowed it of a friend; and they took it away—they called again afterwards, and showed me a small piece of Paper with some foreign engraving upon it—they wanted me to produce a glytho of it—I did so; and they took it away.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Do you mean to swear to that being the very plate they brought to you? A. I do—I examined it so thoroughly; and I am certain of it—there are things here which have been taken out, and it has been done by a person that did not understand it—I can swear that that is the plate that was shown me.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You are a practical engraver, I believe? A. Yes—I examined it thoroughly.
Harwitz. Q. Which day did we come to you? A. I have no dates—it
was in November, I think the beginning—I saw Reichberg first alone, and he asked for my card, and said he would call again.
JAMES JOYOE . I was assistant to Mr. Cripps, stationer, of 24, Skinner street, Snowhill, at the time in question—I have left since—in the beginning of August Reichberg called at Mr. Cripps' establishment—I think he brought a sheet of paper with him—I am not quite certain—he asked the price of our large creamo bank post—I gave him the price, and showed him a sample—he looked at it and saw the water-mark, and he said, "Can I have it without the water-mark"—the water-mark was down the corner, J. Whatman, 1861—I said, "No"—he said, "Can I have it with a wavy line in it?"—I said, "No"—he then said, "Get up two or three reams of it from the mill" (as we happened to be out of stock at the time) "and I will call again"—I got some for him—he came at the latter end of August, had a ream, and paid for it—this produced is a portion of the paper I sold him.
ROBERT DUNFORD . I am assistant to Messrs. B. Smith and Son, printing ink manufacturers, Wine office-court—about 27th September last, Harwitz and Reichberg called and asked for some coloured ink—they wanted some particular coloured red ink—they said they were recommended to our firm by Messrs. Adams and Gee—I showed them a specimen of red ink—Harwitz said that was not the colour—Reichberg then took a small border printed on paper, out of his pocket, and said that was the colour he wanted: I said, "You want Carmine:" he said, "Yes, Carmine"—I supplied him with a box similar to this—I have not the least doubt this is the box—it is exactly like it—I charged him 1s. 6d. for it—it would print at least 500 of the borders that I have been shown.
THOMAS RAWLINS . I am a lithographic printer, at 38, Whitecross-street-place, Finsbury—the prisoner Josephson, called on me, with another man, about a fortnight after Whitsuntide, last year—he asked me if I would put his brother-in-law in the way of lithographic printing; he pointed out the party who was with him as his brother-in-law—I asked him in what respect he wished to know—he said, "The process of pulling an impression from a a copper-plate and transferring it to the stone—I told him I had no objection to doing so, and I took a copper-plate and pulled an impression, and transferred it to a stone of my own—I did that before them—after I had shown them the process, and answered several questions that they asked me, they left me with the impression that his brother-in-law would be able to accomplish it—he said, when he went away, that he should be able to accomplish it—in about ten days or somewhere thereabouts afterwards they both came together again and purchased a sheet of transfer paper; that is paper with a composition upon it that would pull the impression from the plates, for the purpose of transferring to the stone—they paid me for the paper and left—about a week or a fortnight afterwards they came again, and brought a copper-plate—to the best of my belief this (produced) is it—the writing looks like it, but I cannot swear positively to it—it is very similar to it—the plate I had had a border round it; this has not, but there has been a border taken out here—unless the border has been removed this is not the plate—Josephson asked me to pull him two impressions from this plate on my paper for transferring—I asked him for what purpose—I asked the other man, and he said it was for him to transfer to the stone—I did what was required of me—it took me perhaps half-an-hour—he said he had a lithographic press of his own, that he was an artist, and wished an insight for his own amusement.
COURT. Q. Who said so? A. The other man, Josephson's brother-in-law, as I understood he was—that other man was neither of the prisoners.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did they, on a subsequent occasion, call, and did Josephson produce the same copper plate a second time? A. Yes; they came a second time, and I pulled two more impressions, and transferred it to stone for them—the paper was my own paper, transfer paper with the composition upon it—they brought some paper with them sometime after that—the stone that I transferred it to they took away with them, after I had got it in printing condition.
COURT. Q. Then it was fit to print from? A. Yes.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did they call again a third time, with another stone, a stone of their own, not yours? A. The next time they came I think they came without bringing the stone, and asked me if I would have any objection to print them a few copies myself from a stone of my own—I had not made a stone—they brought the plate for me to take fresh copies from that, and I was to transfer that to a stone of my own, and print them copies from it—they brought the paper then to have it printed on—I printed them on that occasion perhaps thirty or forty impressions—they took them away with them—it was paper exactly like this produced—the last time I saw them must have been somewhere near September—I struck them off another batch of copies—after the occasion to which I have last spoken, Josephson's friend came, and was with me I dare say three hours—he was by himself on that occasion, and I think he had about 200 impressions or more—Josephson at one time asked me what price I charged per thousand for printing these borders—I told him it would be 8s. or 9s.—this is similar to the plate I had, but it had no eagle on it—it is very similar in general appearance to what I printed, but at the time I printed it there was no eagle, and no number—the black border and the centre writing were there, not the red border—this border looks very much like part of what I printed—when I did print I printed with the border—I think these two top lines were not on it when I had it.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Is there anything peculiar in this paper? A. Nothing more than it is commonly called foreign bank post paper—I know it as such—I do not know that it is used for other purposes—I have seen it before—I have printed note headings on it, to be kept in offices to write notes on—I am quite familiar with the style of paper—this border is very similar to the one I saw—I should say it was the same border, but I could not say it was my printing—I have never put any sort of ornament upon paper of this kind before, not for notes—I have perhaps put a coat of arms or a die, or anything which was wasted—I never put a border, I can swear that—Josephson did not come on all occasions—the other man came by himself sometimes—perhaps one would call and then the two would call the next time, and one after that again—I never knew when they were coming—no arrangement was ever made.
BENJAMIN HILLINER . I am an ornamental engraver, carrying on business at 5, London-wall—in November last year, the prisoner Josephson called on, me at my place of business—he brought with him a circular zinc plate with some engine turned work upon it—he wanted me to make a copper plate similar to it—he left it with me—I told him I could do something very near it, not exactly—he seemed satisfied—he did not describe himself as of any business, the first time he came—the second time he came he said he was a travelling watchmaker and jeweller—he carried his case about with him—he came again about a week afterwards—it was not completed then—it was completed a few days afterwards—I then handed it to him; he took it away and paid for it—this (produced by Scott) is the plate.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was the zinc plate a circular one?
A. Yes; the pattern one was—the engraving in the centre was about the same size as the part that is cut out in this—I made it as like the one he brought as possible.
ANDREW ROURKE . In July last Josephson called on me and purchased a small zinc plate—for about two months afterwards he called frequently, and had other copper and zinc plates, always about the same size—I cannot say exactly how many—they were about eight inches by four—they were not so large as this plate—it would be sufficient for the circle to be engraved on—he came in December with Reichberg, and asked me if I recollected his having some plates from me previously—I said I did—he said he had brought his friend and wanted me to do a job for him in the making of plates—he said he wanted a copper plate made of an extra substance, extra thick, and he wanted a centre cut from the plate so as to make a border—I showed him some plates that I had in, but none of them were stout enough—he left my place then, with the impression that he was coming back again, but he did not come back—the prisoner Harwitz called about a week afterwards, and brought a piece of paper and gave it me as a pattern to cut the border from—I have not got that; he took it back with him—I was to cut the copper plate so as to represent the piece of paper that he brought with him as a border—I prepared the border, and Harwitz called and paid for it, and took it away with him—this is the centre that I cut from the plate—there is no engraving upon it—the border was to be prepared for engraving, but the centre was not required—Harwitz did not refer at all to the other persons, when he came, he merely said that he wanted me to make a plate the size of the border that he brought—it was a piece of plain paper that he brought—I was to cut a plate and prepare it for engraving.
COURT. Q. What you were to do was only to cut a piece out of the solid plate, and prepare it for engraving. A. Yes; the piece of paper was only to show me the size of the piece I was to out; I had nothing to do with engraving—it was merely a plate to be prepared for engraving.
Harwitz. Q. Did you ask me if it belonged to me? A. You brought the plate yourself; Reichberg had had no plate from me before this—he wanted a border similar to the one you brought me—Reichberg never brought me any plate—I did not ask you for what purpose you wanted it—it was not my business to ask any such question as that.
ELIZABETH COLEMAN . I live at 6, Bevington-street, Hoxton—in November last Reichberg hired a kitchen in that house from me, for half a crown a week—he remained until he was taken into custody—while he was there he had a latch key to let himself in and out—I have often seen Harwitz there, as much as Reichberg, and I have seen Mrs. Josephson there—I never saw Josephson there—sometimes one paid the rent, and sometimes the other; Mrs. Josephson, Reichberg, and Harwitz—this (produced) is the key they had.
ABRAHAM SANSKOWSKI . I live at 3, Mitre-street, Aldgate—I have an office at 65, Lower Thames-street—I have known Reichberg about four years—he used to call on me at Mitre-street—at my place in Lower Thames-street I have a copying machine—Reichberg lent me that, as mine was broken—after the prisoners were taken into custody, I gave the officer Scott a piece of gutta-percha—this is it (produced)—Reichberg gave it me as a sample—it was a plain piece then, like this, on both sides—I could not see that anything was inside—I was to take care of it for him until he should ask me for it.
COURT. Q. When was it he gave it to you? A. I cannot say exactly—he brought it to my residence.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it some months before? A. It was two months or more before he gave me the copying machine—it might be less; I cannot say exactly—he gave it to me for a sample—I was to give it him again when he should ask me—he did not tell me particularly to take care of it—I was not to use it for my own—a man begged me to buy some gutta-percha for him, and I told him I did not deal in it; and one morning I went out and inquired for a sample, and Reichberg said he would bring me a sample, and he brought me this afterwards—he said nothing about a copper plate being inside the gutta-percha, and I did not know it until three or four days after it was taken from me.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Have you known Reichberg long? A. Three or four years, from Odessa—I was away from here about six months—I came back at the end of July—I cannot say how many times I saw Reichberg between July and the time I saw Scott—it may be four, five, or six times—I have seen him at a house where I go to eat—he is a man I was not particularly friendly with—he is a diamond merchant, or diamond setter—I am a merchant, dealing in East India goods, or colonial goods—I buy pepper, spice, coffee, drugs, and such things—I did not go to Scott—he came to my office, and asked were I had this machine from—I and, "From Mr. Reichberg"—he said, "What have you got more?"—I said, "I have no more from him, only a piece of gutta-percha"—he said he was taken for forgery, and that was the way I came to give him the gutta-percha—I did not know Scott till he came to my office.
ABRAHAM MAURICE KATTOWSKI . I live at 7, Somerset-street, Aldgate—I know Harwitz—he lodged in the same house, and in the same room that I did, in the course of last year, for about six months—after he was taken into custody, the officer Scott came there, on a Wednesday evening, the 15th of January—no one occupied that room but Harwitz and I at that time—there was another young man, but he had left—I saw Scott take down some pictures, and amongst others the picture of Garibaldi, which has been produced—that picture belonged to Harwitz—I saw Scott take the back board from it, and find the notes that have been produced to-day—I had no idea that they were there.
Harwitz. Q. Did not you ask me, when I gave you notice, to make you a present of that picture? A. I asked you what present you would let me have when you left the place, for living so long together—that was before you thought of moving, and you said you would leave me that picture; but I did not think there was anything in it—you did not say you would give it me then—I know Reichberg—I have very often seen him with you—he lived in the front parlour for a few weeks, about a year before.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I believe you saw the plate found, and directed the officers attention to the cupboard? A. Yes; the officer asked me whether Harwitz had some things left in the place, and I pointed out the cupboard, and he produced the plate from there—it was sealed up—it is the plate with the figure 10 on it.
EUGENE KLEIN . I am a member of the Russian credit note department, at St. Petersburg—I am employed in the department of the Minister of finance for the manufacture of bank notes, and all other State papers—bank notes and their manufacture come under my supervision—a ten rouble note is a note circulated throughout Russia—a rouble represents somewhere about 3s. English money—I have with me a genuine ten rouble note—the sixty-five rouble notes produced, found behind the picture, are forged—I am sure of that.
COURT. Q. Are they something like a ten rouble note? A. Yes; they are very skilful forgeries, therefore the more dangerous.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose none but those well acquainted with them would be able to discover they were forgeries? A. I think so—I have looked through the type, and the different engraving tools and things produced by the officers—I do not find any plate that would agree with these notes—as far as I can judge these notes are printed from other plates; not those that have been produced by the officers—as to the back part of the note I am sure of it—this small printing on the back part of the notes contains some mistakes in orthography, which show me that this was not printed from the plates which have been produced—with regard to the eagles, the borders, and the other parts, I am not able to pronounce an opinion about then—it is very difficult to say as to that—they may or may not be printed from this—it would be impossible to say for certain—I have had certain impressions struck from the type that has been produced, and also from the plates.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you do it yourself? A. No; I have seen it done.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. With regard to the first one with the water-mark, did you see that struck? A. No; I did not see that struck—I have looked through the translation of that and found it correct—it purports to be the writing that would be on the back of a Russian rouble note—there are also some characters on a small piece of gutta-percha (produced)—I translated that—it is, "Currency is given," on the first line; "Currency is given," on the second line; and "Currency is given throughout the whole empire the same as silver," on the third line—that would be on parts of a Russian ten rouble note—I have seen the water-mark—it is an imitation of the water-mark of a Russian rouble note—the border on a genuine rouble note is a circle exactly like this—I have got a genuine rouble note here (comparing them)—I have seen some impressions produced by the officers from this circle found upon Harwitz or Reichberg—in my opinion they have been struck off from this plate—they are, in all apparent respects, similar—this is quite such a border as would be put on a Russian rouble note—it is very well done—here it an impression of an eagle—that would be upon a Russian ten rouble note—that is very well done—here is another eagle, which also represents the eagle at the back of the note; and here are some numbers which are quite like the numbers employed in the numbering of a Russian note, and would be required to make them perfect—all that is wanted to make the note complete is the ornamental border on the front part, with the writing; in all other respects there are all the materials for a perfect note, with that exception.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Have you been examined before the Magistrate about this? A. No—I arrived in this country on 17th February last.
THOMAS DODDS . I was formerly in the employment of Mr. Woods—I pulled from this plate the impression of a water-mark, a border, two eagles, and figures—I also did this circle, No. 10 plate, the border, and this eagle, these figures, and numbers—Potter also did a part of it.
WILLIAM POTTER . I am in the employment of Mr. Woods—I was employed for the purpose of pulling some of these impressions—I pulled this and several others (pointing them out)—I did this from a copper plate.
Josephson received a good character.
REICHBERG— GUILTY .— Eight Years' Penal Servitude.
JOSEPHSON and HARWITZ— GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude each.
(See New Court, Thursday).
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, April 9th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. JUSTICE WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. ROSE; Mr. Ald. CONDER;
and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS JEFFERY . I am one of the travelling inspectors of the missing letter department attached to the Post-office—in consequence of instructions I received, I went to Belper, on 25th February, and made up a letter, in which I enclosed two half sovereigns and eighteen postage-stamps, each of which I marked with the word "Trent," and "T. J." my initials—I addressed the envelope in which I enclosed them, to F. Bury, veterinary surgeon, Esher, Surrey—I posted it myself at the Belper post-office at half-past 9 that night: it would be in time to go by that night's post—I then went into the post-office, and saw the postmaster take it from the receiving box, and I left him some instructions concerning it—it would go to London that night, and the bag containing it would be opened in the travelling post-office on the Midland Railway in its passage up to London—the prisoner was employed in the post-office tender that night—he was a sorter, and was also acting as assistant mail-guard—I went from Derby to London by the same train, and arrived at the General Post-office about 5 o'clock—I was there a little before the prisoner—previous to his coming I had received some information, in consequence of which, when he came, I sent for him into the comptrollers-office—he came there to me, and Child, the Post-office constable also came in—I said to the prisoner, "You were on duty in the Midland sorting carriage last night?"—he replied, "Yes;"—I said, "You sorted the London letters from Belper, I believe?"—he replied, "No; I did not"—I said, "I have been informed that you did"—he said, "Perhaps I did assist," or "help; it was Mr. Hill's duty"—I said, "Did you see anything of a letter directed to Mr. F. Bury, veterinary surgeon, Esher, Surrey?"—he replied, "No"—I said, "The truth is, circumstances have come to the knowledge of the authorities which have led to the suspicion that you have been taking letters for some time, and the letter I have spoken to you about, was purposely sent from Belper last night, with a view of testing that matter; the letter came into your hands that is now missing, will you let us see whether you have got it about you now, or any of its contents?"—he took various things of no importance from his pockets, and turned some of his pockets inside out: after he had done, I said to Child, "It will be more satisfactory if you examine the pockets now"—he did so, and took from one of the coat pockets eighteen postage-stamps, rolled up in a small compass, but still all attached—I said to the prisoner, "Where did you get these stamps?"—he replied, "I bought them in London, when I was going down into the country on Monday night; I intended writing to my sister, but have not done so"—there were no marks visible on the stamps, at that time, but soon afterwards I applied a liquid to some of them, and then recognized my own mark, "Trent, T. J." on each that I applied the liquid to—I told the prisoner I could identify them as the stamps I had put into the letter I had been speaking to him about—he still adhered to
his former story, that he had purchased them on the previous Monday—he said that he did not know how it was, and I gave him in custody—these are the stamps (produced)—the address that I put on the letter was fictitious.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Just show us how the stamps were found. A. They were rolled up like this—I think he had on the ccat he has now—I believe his great coat was off at the time, but will not swear to it—I was not in the van where the letters were sorted—there were four persons in the van, Garsyth, Hill, Bannocks, and Crofton—I am not quite sure, but I think those were all—the prisoner has been in the Post-office about twelve years—the prisoner's house was searched I believe—I believe all the persons who were engaged in the van that night are in the same position still in the Post-office—it was the prisoner's duty when he got to the station to get into a conveyance, and the driver drives him straight on to the Post-office.
COURT. Q. Had you applied that mark to any other stamps put into a test-letter? A. Not the same word.
MATTHEW ELLIS SOWREY . I am the postmaster at Belper—on 25th February, I received some information from Mr. Jeffery about a letter, and on the evening of that day I took a letter out of the letter-box addressed, "Mr. F. Bury, Veterinary Surgeon, Esher, Surrey," which I could feel contained coin—I stamped it, and tied it up in the bundle of letters for London, which I put in the London bag, sealed it, and sent it down to the railway-station—it would, in due course, go up to London at 11.30—I had no communication with Garsyth.
Cross-examined. Q. Who did you give the bag to? A. To Kirk, the messenger appointed to take it to the station—he is in the employ of the Post-office—he is not here—I know nothing of it after it passed out of my hands.
MR. CLERK. Q. Are the bags always sealed before they are dispatched from the office? A. Yes; I sealed this bag.
JOSEPH GARSYTH . In February last, I was a sorter in the Midland district travelling tender to London—the mail-train coming up at night does not stop at Belper, but there is an apparatus which holds the letter-bag, which the train touches as it goes by, causing the bag to fall into a net—Mr. Jeffery, the travelling inspector, had made a communication to me about a letter which was coming—on the night of 25th February, the prisoner brought me the sealed Belper bag into the travelling office—I broke the seal and opened it—among the letters, I found two bundles, in one of which I saw the letter for Mr. Bury, veterinary surgeon, Esher—I opened the bundles, and placed them before the prisoner to be sorted, with that letter among them—it was placed among the letters for the London district—the prisoner ought to have placed it in the blind letter-box, but I looked there, after he had finished sorting, and could not find it—I knew that it was a test-letter—the Midland train stops At Rugby twenty minutes, and before we got there I tied up the letters out of the blind letter-box, and placed them in a bag with other letters to go to London to be sorted there—the London district letters are sorted in the train—the prisoner got out at Rugby, put all the bags on a truck, and brought them to the train to the post office carriage—his post-office duties at Rugby occupied him about eight minutes—on arriving at Euston-square station, the bags are conveyed from there in vans and post-office omnibusses—the prisoner had charge of the Midland bags in the omnibus; there was only him in that omnibus—I made a communication to Mr. Jeffrey's at Rugby—besides the prisoner and
myself, Hills and Crofton were in the travelling carriage, but Hills and the prisoner were the only two who sorted.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know that the prisoner was the only person in the omnibus at the Euston station? A. I believe he was—I do not know of my own knowledge—the driver would be outside—the prisoner has orders to remain inside—I have only known the prisoner since he has been on the railway, about eight months—we have always been on very good terms—I have smoked a pipe with him, but not every night that I had an opportunity—I was friendly with him—I am quite positive that I saw the letter in the bundle, addressed to this person at Esher—I have no doubt about that—I was not asked the question before the Magistrate—I am unable to state how many bags the prisoner had to take out at Rugby and leave—he brought back about eleven, I think, or it might be a dozen—it was not fourteen—the amount of time he took would depend upon whether the bags were ready for him or not—Hills was standing upright, close to the prisoner—they stand to sort—I was about a yard and a half from him—Crofton was about two yards and a half from him on my right—the prisoner was not working in his shirt sleeves, he was dressed in his coat as he always is—I cannot tell you about his great coat—I am still in the Post-office, not going up and down the line, but in another position.
JOHN CHILD . I am a messenger of the Post-office, and also act as a constable—I was with Mr. Jeffery, and took the prisoner into the Comptroller's office—he took something out of his pocket—Mr. Jeffery then asked me to search his pockets, and in the right-hand pocket of his great coat I found a roll of stamps—I saw Mr. Jeffery apply some liquid to them, and the marks then made their appearance.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you search all his pockets? A. Yes; this little bundle of stamps was rolled up tight—that was all I found relating to the Post-office—I did not search his house—he said that he had purchased the stamps in London to send to a sister or aunt—he repeated that more than once.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did he say when he purchased them? A. On the Monday before he went away—this was on Wednesday morning, immediately after he was searched—he was not let out of custody again—3d. or 4d. in copper was found upon him.
Cross-examined. Q. How were you engaged? A. In sorting the letters for the London district—I stood next to the prisoner—Crofton was on my right, with Garsyth—they stood together—the prisoner was merely a helper in sorting the letters—he had only one coat on.
MR. CLERK. Q. Had he a great coat with him in the carriage? A. He generally had two coats with him, but I believe he had only one coat on while sorting.
MR. DICKIE. Q. Is there a place where you put your outside coats, when at work? A. There are several places where they may be put, at some distance from us.
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN STRETTON (Policeman, K 491). On 11th March, about half-past 2, or nearly 3 o'clock, from information I received, I went to Mr. Wade's, 23, Church-lane, Limehouae—I got over a boarded fence at the end of the house and found the back door of No. 22 unfastened, by which a person could get into the house—I looked round and saw the prisoner crouched up in a corner outside the house in the yard—he said that he came there to sleep—I found this shawl (produced) wrapped round his body inside his trousers, and he had on these boots and stockings—I saw my brother constable pick up two petticoats and a cape in the yard, about ten yards from the prisoner.
SUSANNAH WADE . I am the wife of William Wade, of 22, Church-lane, Limehouse—on 10th March, about a quarter to 11 o'clock, I fastened up the house and went to bed, I was the last person up—a window looks into the garden from the washhouse, which is part of the house, and when I was disturbed, I found that it had been broken open—that was about twenty minutes to 3 in the morning—the button of the door leading from the garden to the washhouse was pushed off, and some of the wood-work broken—when you have got into the washhouse you can get into the inner part of the house—the window frame was broken a little before, but it was broken more afterwards, large enough for any person to put their hands in, lift the window up, and so get into the kitchen—I am sure the window was fastened the night before: I fastened it with a nail, as I could not find a screw; I found the nail on the floor next morning—directly I went into the kitchen I missed a pair of boots, a petticoat, cape, shawl, and stockings, some of which I hare seen since—they are my husband's property, and were all safe when I went to bed—they are worth between 4l. and 5l.—I do not know the prisoner.
JOHN STRETTON (re-examined). The window was a little way up when I first noticed it, a pane of glass was broken and the frame too—Ponsford, my brother officer, asked the prisoner whether those were his boots on his feet—he said, "No, those are mine which you have got in your hand"—those were the boots I produce.
GUILTY.**—He was also charged with having been convicted at Worship-street Police-court, on 10th August, 1861; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.
ARTHUR SMITHERS . I am assistant to Mr. Lisle, a pawnbroker, of 5, Exmouth-street—on the morning of 24th March, I was called up by a policeman at about a quarter to 5 o'clock—I went to the top of the house and found the trap-door wide open, that is over a loft, under which is a room where goods are kept—some of the tiles were removed that would enable a person to open the trap-door, it fastens with a bolt—the moment I went into the room, I missed some silk handkerchiefs, and Cashmere scarves with duplicates—it is my master's dwelling-house, in the parish of St. James' Clerkenwell—this handkerchief (produced) was in pledge, I know it by the way in which it was rolled round as we always roll them—I do no know these scarves—I swear to these in the large bundle, we have had people apply for them, most of them were pledges, but some were out of time goods—there are no marks upon them, but I know this one has been in pledge at our place; it was in the room safe with the others.
Prisoner. Q. The trap-door was bolted, for what I could see of it, it goes up straight from the gutter, which would leave nearly a yard and a half from the roof to the tiles; will you swear that a person could reach the bolt? A. I should think it could be done—it was not a yard and a half—this is the way in which I always fold up handkerchiefs (Rolling it up), I then put a little ticket on them and put them in the rack—all these are folded in the same way.
MR. GENT. A. How high is the trap-door from the gutter? A. About a yard and a quarter from the gutter to the top of the trap-door—two or three tiles were removed, or more than that—these duplicated (produced) are our's, here is our name on them—they relate to handkerchiefs, and would be such as I should put upon handkerchiefs.
MATTHEW LISLE . I am servant to Mr. Matthew Lisle, pawnbroker, of 5, Exmouth-street—on 23d March, between 2 and 3 in the afternoon—I shut and fastened the trap-door at the top of the house—the tiles were all safe—nobody had any business there after that time—next morning I saw that the trap-door had been opened and the tiles removed.
Prisoner. Q. How was the door fastened? A. With one bolt, I bolted it—a glass tile lights the loft.
DAVID HOLLOWAY (Policeman, D 52). On the morning of 24th March, about a quarter to 5, I noticed a plank between the roof of No. 9 and No. 10, Exmouth-street—No. 10, is an unfinished house; No. 9, is five houses from Mr. Lisle's—you could get from No. 9 to No. 10 by the plank, and could then very easily get to No. 5—I got to the plank by getting up a ladder half way, I then climbed up the wood-work of No. 10, drew the plank on to the roof of No. 10, then returned, went to Mr. Lisle's, and called Mr. Smithers up, it was then a quarter to 5—I went up to the trap-door and saw several tiles removed which were close to it—it was wide open—those tiles being removed would enable a person to open the trap-door if bolted—I went out at it—a person standing in the gutter could very easily take off those tiles—I searched the houses from No. 5, to the roof of the unfinished house; I then went to the roof of No. 4, where I found the prisoner concealed in a gutter—I said, "Now then, come on out of that," meaning that gutter—he said, "Oh, all right, I suppose it is a case with me now"—I took him to the station and found these three handkerchiefs on him, this yellow one was one of them—he was wearing the scarf (produced) round his neck.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I make a statement regarding that scarf and the yellow haudkerchief at the Court? A. You said that one of the handkerchiefs was your property, you said nothing about the scarves, you asked the Magistrate to allow you to receive your property back.
Prisoner. That was the yellow handkerchief and the scarf which I had round my neck. Witness. You mentioned nothing about the scarf before the Magistrate—you asked for one handkerchief and fivepence in copper, which was found on you—five or six tiles were removed.
JAMES BUXTON (Policeman, G 8). I searched the roof of the house after the prisoner was taken, and found seventy-nine silk handkerchiefs tied up in a bundle, and two loose on the roof of No. 9, and seventy-four duplicates (produced), I also found three handkerchiefs on the prisoner.
Prisoner's Defence. I was going home at a quarter-past 4, and saw somebody on the roof; I had heard of a robbery at Mr. Lisle's the week before, and went up the ladder as I could not see a policeman; I crossed the plank and found two handkerchiefs; the policeman then came up the ladder and removed the board; I thought if I did not get down some other way he
might conclude that it was me. The handkerchiefs are not folded in a particular way at all. I refused my address because I did not wish my friends to know where I was.
GUILTY .— Confined One Year.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
HAMOND WATTS . I am a corn-dealer of Wick-road, Hackney—I was the possessor of a bright bay mare—on 14th March, I turned her out on Hackney-common, a little before 9 in the morning, and missed her in the evening about 6—I have seen her since in the possession of the police—I do not know the prisoner—I value her at 15l.—I had not sold her—her tail has been shortened very much, but I am sure she is mine—I know her by a brand on the foot.
Lee. I bought the pony on 14th March, so I could not steal it on the 15th.
CORNELIUS ANSTED . I am a farrier of Christopher-place, Euston-road—on 14th March, between 11 and 12 in the morning, Lee brought me a bay mare for sale—Boswell was not with him—Lee said that it belonged to him, but I refused to buy it—I afterwards bought it on the next day, the 15th, for five guineas, and on the 16th I gave him 20s. deposit—he came again on the 17th, the Monday following, for the rest of the money—I had my doubts about it, the tail being short, and refused to pay for it, and put the matter in the hands of the police—the mare had a long tail the first time I saw her—I gave Lee a shilling to go and spend at the public-house while I ascertained his address—I did not see Boswell till the Sunday when he led the pony down—Lee was with him on Monday morning; Lee gave the name of John Boswell, White Post-lane, Hackney-wick—I understood that to be his own address, but when I got to Hackney-wick, I found it to be reversed—I made inquiry there about the pony, and gave both the prisoners in custody—Boswell came again on the Monday morning with Lee—I gave the pony that I had from Lee to Brenchley.
WILLIAM TYLER . I am a butcher of Wells-street, Hackney—on 14th March, from a quarter to half-past 10 in the morning—I was in the lane leading to Hackney-wick—I saw a person there, whom I firmly believe to be Lee, with a colt, a bright bay mare with a long tail—I said, "You have a very nice colt"—he rubbed his hands and said, "The b——has thrown me, it has been turned out for four months and got fresh"—I drove on, stopped at one or two houses, and then he passed, and I caught him again in a lane leading towards Bow—he asked me to buy the mare for 13l. and said he had given 17l. for her to Mr. Kennard of Bow—I asked him if anybody was to offer him a 10l. note for it, if he would take it—he said, "To tell you the truth we are hard up, my father has had the misfortune to break his leg, and 10l. is the selling price to-day"—I only saw Lee.
JOHN BRENCHLEY (Police-sergeant, K 2). On 17th March I took both the prisoners at the Rising Sun public-house, Somers'-town—I took Boswell first, and Lee afterwards—I told them I took them on a charge of horse stealing at Hackney-wick—they made no reply—I got the pony from Ansted, and showed it to Mr. Watts.
JOHN COOK (Policeman, S 198). I accompanied Brenchley to the Rising Sun, and found Lee—I told him that he was charged with stealing a horse from Hackney-wick—he said, "I did not steal it, I bought it of a man in the road—I asked him if he knew where I could find the man—he said,
"No, I do not; it is no use asking me any questions about it"—I took him to the station.
Lee's Defence. I bought the pony on 14th March, about half-past 10, of a man who asked me five guineas for it. I gave him 4l. 15s. and took it away. I walked on with it, and was going down Hackney-road to take it to the market. I met a man who told me he knew a man who wanted to buy a pony. He took me, and the gentleman said he could not deal to-day. I took her home to the market, and afterwards turned her out again. If I had known she was stolen, I should have given the man in custody. Boswell knows nothing about the pony. I asked him to come and have a drink, and earn a shilling if he could.
Boswell's Defence. I was going along, looking for a job, and saw this man. He said, "Do you want to earn a shilling or two?" I said, "Yes;" being out of work at the time. I know nothing about the pony.
LEE— GUILTY .— Confined One Year.
BOSWELL— NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, April 9th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. GIBBONS; and Mr. COMMON
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. POLAND and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
SOPHIA DOWER . I am the wife of Joseph Dower, tobacconist, of 50, Limehouse-causeway—the prisoner came there on Thursday, 27th March, for a quarter of an ounce of tobacco, and tendered me a shilling—I had not any halfpence—I gave the shilling to the child, Sarah Roberts, to get change—she returned in a minute or two with the shilling bent, and said it was a bad one—the prisoner said he received it from his brother—I gave it back to him, and he went away without the tobacco.
SARAH ROBERTS . I live with the last witness, who is my grandmother—I remember her giving me a shilling one Thursday last month—I went over to Mr. Miller, who lives just opposite, and gave it to him—he tried it with his teeth, gave it me back, and said it was a bad one—I came over, gave that same shilling to my grandmother, and said, in the prisoner's presence, that it was a bad one.
WILLIAM MILLER . I keep the Oak beer-shop, at Limehouse-causeway—on 27th March the last witness brought me a shilling—I tried it between my teeth, and it bent quite easily—it was bad—I handed it to the girl, and said it was a bad one.
MARY BRADLEY . I am the wife of Henry Bradley, a confectioner, of 232, High-street, Poplar—on 27th March the prisoner came and asked for a pennyworth of drops, and he gave me a shilling—I had no change, and I gave that shilling to Lizzie Wood, my servant, to get change; and in a minute or so she brought me two sixpences in change—I then gave the prisoner 11d. change and the drops—the constable at that time came into the shop, and took the prisoner into custody, with the 11d. and the drops—the constable asked me, in the prisoner's presence, where the shilling
was, and I told him I had given it to my husband to change for two sixpences—he told me to look at the shilling; and I sent for my husband to come and look at it—my husband brought it, and turned his purse into the policeman's hand.
LIZZIE WOOD . I am servant to Mrs. Bradley—on 27th March she gave me a shilling, which I took to Mr. Bradley—he gave me his purse to take the change out—I opened the purse, took two sixpences out, put the Shilling in, and put the purse down by Mr. Bradley's side—there was no other Shilling in the purse then, only two threepenny pieces—I returned to Mrs. Bradley and gave her the two sixpences; and the constable then came in.
HENRY BRADLEY . On 27th March, the last witness brought me a Shilling—I gave her my purse, which had no shilling in it—she opened it, and put it down by my side, after putting a shilling in it—in a few minutes, from what was said to me, I took my purse into the shop, and emptied it into the policeman's hand—it then contained a bad shilling, and two threepenny pieces.
SIMON RALPH (Policeman, K 244). On 27th March, the prisoner was pointed out to me by a man in the West India-road—another man was with him—the prisoner went into Bradley's shop—I stood by the doorway, watched him, saw him tender something to Mrs. Bradley, and saw Mrs. Bradley give him change and the drops—I went inside, and took from him a sixpence, 5d. in coppers, and the drops—Mr. Bradley then came into the shop, and turned out his purse in which was a shilling and two threepenny pieces—they fell into my hand—this (produced) is the shilling—the prisoner said, "How do I know that is my shilling? that is not my shilling"—I took hold of him—he said, "Don't handle me, I am a respectable boy"—I said, "I don't care what you are, I shall take you to the station"—I took him to the station, and on searching him, I found six penny-worth of coppers loose in his left-hand trousers' pocket.
The prisoner's statement; before the Magistrate was read at follows:—"I own I gave a shilling; but I do not know whether it was a bad one or not. I never was in Mr. Dower's shop. The shilling was passed through different people's hand before it came to the proper owner."
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES ALLERBY . I am a gardener, and live at East Acton—I am in the habit of frequenting the Askew-arms public-house—I was in there on 25th March last, about 8 o'clock at night—the prisoner came in, called for a pint of beer, and put down a shilling—the landlady, Mrs. Kemp, took it up, and gave him some change—he drank the beer, and went away directly—I made a communication to Mrs. Kemp, and she showed me a shilling, and, in my presence, bent it nearly double—on 27th March, I had just gone in there again to get my half-pint of beer, and saw the prisoner come in—it was near 3 o'clock in the day—I recognised him—he had a pint of fourpenny beer, and put down a shilling which he took out of a tobacco box—(he had taken the one on 25th March out of the tobacco box)—the landlord gave him 6d. and 4d. in copper, change—I spoke to the landlord who detained the prisoner—I fetched a constable, and he was given in custody—Mr. Kemp then produced a shilling, and the prisoner snatched it from him.
Prisoner. Q. Did I snatch it from him, or take it out of his fingers? A. You snatched it from him, and said you would give him a good one—I could
swear to you from a thousand, by the way you came in with your tobacco box—you came in on 25th March like a labourer, with your trousers dirty as if you had been at work.
ANNIE MARGARET KEMP . I am the wife of Daniel Kemp, and keep the Askew Arms, in the Uxbridge-road—on 25th March I served a man with some beer, in Allerby's presence—I cannot say whether the prisoner is the man—he gave me a shilling, which I put in the till where there was no other shilling—I gave him change, and he left, and then, from what Allerby said to me, I looked in the till and found the shilling which I put there—it was bad—I afterwards gave that same shilling to my husband.
Prisoner. Q. Are you sure that it was 25th March or Monday that I came into your house? A. I took the bad shilling on Tuesday, 25th March—I do not know you.
DANIEL KEMP . The last witness is my wife—on 27th March last the prisoner came and asked for a pint of beer—I served him—he gave me a shilling, and I gave him 10d. change—Allerby was there—I laid the shilling on a recess, over the till, by itself—there were no other shillings there; only a few farthings—after that Allerby said something to me, in consequence of which I looked at the shilling again, and found it was bad—I told the prisoner it was bad, and he asked me to let him look at it—I held it out, and he snatched it from me—I asked him for it again, and he tendered me a good shilling, and I gave him 10d. change—I then detained him, and gave him in the costody of the police-sergeant—he held out a good shilling afterwards—on 25th March my wife gave me a bad shilling, which I marked and laid on the shelf in the parlour—I ultimately gave it to the same sergeant—when the sergeant took the prisoner in custody I told him that the prisoner had taken a shilling from me, and he searched him in my presence and found a bad shilling in his coat pocket—the prisoner said it was the same at that he gave me; that he had not any more.
JURY. Q. What made you lay the money on the recess? A. I have a habit of doing that sometimes—I put it on the pewter; the till is underneath—I told him I did not want the good one, I wanted the bad one back, and he put it in his mouth and was going to swallow it—I took him by the arms and said, "You don't swallow it."
Prisoner. He never said anything about that at the police-court. Witness. I was not asked—he put it in his mouth—some one said there was another man outside, and I asked Allerby to hold him while I went out to see, and while I went out he put the shilling somewhere—he said it was gone; I did not get it back.
ARTHUR BONNICK (Police-sergeant, T 19). The prisoner was given into my custody on 27th March—Mr. Kemp gave me this counterfeit shilling (produced)—on searching the prisoner, I found another counterfeit shilling (produced) in the lining of his coat, between the cloth and the pocket; not in the regular pocket—I also found on him a good shilling, and the 10d. change that Mr. Kemp had given him—there was a hole in the inside of the coat, and it was between the pocket and the cloth of the coat.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
Monday, 10th March, about 7 o'clock in the morning I was in Farrar's-rents with my stall—the prisoner came and asked me for a halfpenny cup of coffee and a slice of bread and butter—they came to 1d.—she gave me a shilling—I was not quite sure that it was a bad one; I pretended not to have change, and asked a little boy to run to a shop and get change—he brought it back, before going into any house, and said it was a bad one—I accused her of knowing it was a bad one, and of belonging to young man with one eye who had given me a bad one the week before—she made no reply, but walked away—I sent the polioeman after her—the boy only went a few yards, the distance from one house to another, and then he gave me back the same shilling—I gave it to the constable.
WILLIAM ROBINSON (City-policeman, 656). On Monday morning, 10th March, I was on duty in Bishopsgate-street, and saw the prisoner in company with a man with one eye, coming across the street towards the stall—I went and spoke to Mrs. Taylor, and she gave me this shilling (produced)—I then went after the prisoner, and overtook her in Sun-street—(the man had gone to Long-alley)—I said, "Have you any more of those about you?"—she said, "Oh! do you think I am a fool?"—I said, "Well, you must come back along with me; where is the man with one eye?"—she said, "If you want him, you had better go and look for him; if you had got him you might have made a job of it"—I took her back to the coffee-stall, and Mrs. Taylor then said, "I believe she is one of the same gang that passed one on me last week"—I told a sergeant that was with us if he saw a man with one eye following us to take him in custody—I took the prisoner in custody—in going to the station she said the man had got the swag; that she had no money—at the station the female searcher searched her—only an empty purse was found on her—I saw the man the following morning at Horse monger-lane gaol, and this morning at the bar.
GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
MESSRS. ROWDEN and UNDERDOWN conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE BROWN (Police-serjeant, T 18). On Saturday afternoon, 22d. March, in consequence of information I received, I went to Munden-street, Fulham, accompanied by Swain, another constable—when we got there I saw the prisoner William Kennerfick coming apparently from the direction of the Rising Sun tavern, playing with other boys in the street—on my approaching him he ran in doors, to No. 2, Munden-street—I went after him to the first-floor back room—the door was fastened inaide—I asked for admittance, and said that if they did not open the door I would break it open—it was then opened from the inside—I went in and saw the three prisoners there—there was also a person named Chambers, who had come in apparently just before, and was in the act of sitting down—the prisoner Margaret was sitting by the fire, William was coming from the right-hand corner as I went in—there was a closet in that corner—James was standing between his mother and brother—there was an elder brother there too, besides these—when I got into the room I addressed the prisoner William, and said, "I want to know where you got the florin from, that you passed at Mrs. Butlin's shop last night"—he said, "I was not out of this house last night"—upon that the mother said, "My boy was never outside this house
last night"—before taking William in custody, I took him to Butlin's, in King-street, Hammersmith, to be identified—on the way there he said, "I was there Iast night; I did pass the florin," or "offer the florin," I won't be sure which—he said, "I did go to Butlin's; a man gave it to me at Hammersmith-gate, for wheeling a load of furniture to Knightsbridge; I did not know as it was bad"—the prisoner said that he went to buy a loaf of bread—I said, "Why go so far to buy a loaf of bread when there are two or three baker's shops in your own street?"—I do not believe he made any reply to that—I took him to the station and then to the Magistrate, which occupied about half an hour, and then went back to Munden-street, where I had left Swain in charge of the room—I found him there when I got back, and made a search in the room—in the corner of the room, from which I had seen the boy coming, I found these two shillings (produced) among some fire-wood—some more were handed to me by the other officer—I saw Swain make a further search—I directed him to search a closet, which was situated at the back part of the same room—he handed me out from there two crown-pieces, rolled up in paper, and nine florins, also rolled up in paper—he could not see what it was—he said, "Sergeant, here is something," and handed it out to me—I was close to him—he was in the dark, and I was in the light—he handed them down to me from the closet, also five shillings, wrapped in paper—I also saw him find a fourpenny bit in the corner of the room, on the floor—I took the prisoner James into custody the same afternoon—I told him it was for uttering a counterfeit shilling to Mrs. Felthouse—he said, "Yes; I did give the shilling, but a man in Derbyshire-street gave it to me," or "I received it from a man in Derbyshire-street"—afterwards he said, "It was not a man in Derbyshire-street; it was my little brother"—I produce this counterfeit shilling which I received from Mrs. Felthouse—I got this florin (produced) from Mrs. Butlin—on the following Monday I took the prisoner Margaret into custody at the same house in Mundan-street—I said to her, "I am come to apprehend you, being the owner of this room where this counterfeit money was found, for having it in your possession"—I believe her remark was, "Oh! my God," or something to that effect—she said, "I know nothing about it"—I believe she said, "The boy Crocknell brought it from Fulham-fields on Thursday last, and has been stopping in my house ever since?"—I said, "Do you mean that boy that I searched in the passage?"—she said, "Yes"—I said, "Why, you told me that was your son"—she said, "I know I did, but I am very sorry for it"—I believe I said, "If you had given me that information then, he would have been in a different position"—I am satisfied that he is not her son—I have made inquiry; he has absconded from the neighbourhood.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. What did you mean by saying that she would be in a different position? A. That Crocknell would be in a different position—I did not know what position he was in at that time, but I am quite satisfied that if she had given me that information he would have been in my custody—that was what I mean by a different position—I have known this woman five or six years—I never knew anything against her before—she was not nursing a child when I went into the room; she was dressing beef steaks and mutton chops—James meant the bigger boy when he mentioned his little brother; I believe he said, "My little brother Bill"—it was the little one called the biggest the little one—that is my explanation of it—I do not know anything about Crocknell—I have not seen him since:—I have been looking after him this last fortnight; I should like to see him—the woman only occupied one room in the house—there is
a sort of division made in the room; a sort of folding door—the landlord of the house is here—I have no reason to doubt what she said about Crocknell stopping there since the Thursday;—from what I have heard since, I believe it is correct—I know that this woman has been ill, and received an allowance from the parish; bread, and so forth; no money—I cannot say that she has been living in the parish thirty-three years—I have only done duty in that neighbourhood about six years—I cannot say how many rooms there are in the house; I dare say there are seven or eight—I believe there is a tenant in each room; I mean a person paying rent for each, besides others living with them.
MR. ROWDEN. Q. Were these chops and steaks part of the parish allowance? A. No—they appeared as if they had been just brought in.
ROBERT SWAIN (Policeman, T 125). On 22d March last I went with Sergeant Brown to No. 2, Munden-street, where I saw the female prisoner and the little boy, besides two more boys in the room, and a man—she told me the two boys were her two sons—Brown took one of these boys away and I was left in charge of the room—when he came back I assisted, in searching the room—in the corner of the room, where the prisoners slept, I found this groat (produced) under the prisoner William's bed—there was a closet on the right hand side of the room, and in there I found four parcels, one containing two five-shilling pieces, done up in paper, the next, six florins, in one paper, and three in another—I kept them all separately wrapped in paper as I found them—I also found 5s.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. You said, "In a corner where the prisoner slept;" which prisoner did you mean? A. Where both the little boys slept together—the mother said both the little boys slept together.
THOMAS GREENHEAD . I am agent to the landlord of No. 2, Munden-street—some time ago the first floor back room of that house was taken by the prisoner Mrs. Kennerfick, at 2s. per week—a small conservatory leading from the room, and a closet, were also taken.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Have you known this woman any time? A. Six or eight months, that is all—I do not know any harm of her during that time.
ANN FELTHOUSE . I keep a chandler's shop at 3, Vernon-street, Fulham—on Thursday, 20th March last, the younger prisoner came there and asked for fourpennyworth of bacon—I cut it off for him, and was about to serve him—he put down a shilling—I saw it was bad, and told him so—I asked him where he got it, and he said that a gentleman in Devonshire-street had given it to him, and was waiting for the change—he afterwards asked me for the shilling back—I kept it, and he went away, and in five minutes he came back and said the gentleman had run away, and that he, the gentleman, had a pocket full of the same coins—he asked me then for the shilling again, and I refused to give it to him—I kept it separate from others, by itself and never put it in the till—on the 22d, two days afterwards, I gave it to Sergeant Brown.
CATHERINE BUTLIN . I live with my father, a baker, in the Broadway, Hammersmith—on Friday, 21st March, some time in the evening, the prisoner William came to our shop, asked for a half-quartern loaf, which came to 4d., and put down a two-shilling piece—I bit it, and noticed the marks I made on it with my teeth—I should know it again—this is it (Pointing it out)—I called my father, and gave him the florin, and he asked the boy where he lived—he said he lived in Munden-street—that was his right address—he told my father that his mother had sent him to get the
loaf, and had given it to him—the boy then left the shop, and my father gave me the florin—I gave it the same night to Sergeant Brown, and at the same time gave him certain information.
ALEXANDER JACKSON . I am the landlord of the Rising Sun public-house, Vernon-street, Fulham—on Friday night, 21st March, the prisoner William Kennerfick came, and an elder brother, I believe, with him—they had a gallon can with them—William asked for two pots of fourpenny ale, and placed a shilling on the counter; the other boy then asked for another pot—I asked him if he wanted it in a separate can, or to put it in the gallon can—he told me to put it in the gallon can, and likewise to put in another pot to make up the 1s. 4d.—I put the shilling in the till—about five minutes afterwards, when I went to count the money, I found it to be a bad shilling—the date of it was 1860—I gave it to Sergeant Brown on the Saturday after the boy was locked up—this is it—on Thursday, 20th March, the day before that, the witness Felthouse brought the prisoner James to my house, and told me that he had come in for fourpennyworth of bacon, and wanted to tender a bad shilling for it—I told her to keep the shilling, and asked the boy where he got it from—he said that the same man in Devonshire-street had given it to him—I told him to go back and tell the man the shilling was bad, and if he wanted it to come and fetch it himself—I knew at that time that James and William were brothers—in consequence of information I had I spoke to Sergeant Brown after the boy William was locked up on the Saturday afternoon—I gave him certain information.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you say it in the presence of any of the three prisoners? A. No—I do not swear that the shilling produced is the shilling I received from the boys—whatever shilling I received from them I put in the till—there was very little money in the till—they paid 1s. 4d., the exact money, for the beer they had—there was an older lad with William—I have known the woman nearly three years—I have known nothing against her.
WILLIAM HUXLEY . I am a shop boy in the service of Mr. Kapperton, oilman, of 1, Munden-terrace, Fulham—I know a boy, named John Kennerfick, and the two male prisoners—he is a brother of those two—on Thursday, 20th March, he came to my shop and gave me a bad shilling, and I went to the female prisoner's lodging—I found Margaret in the room, and said, "Please, Mrs. Kennerfick, your son John has been passing a bad shilling"—I showed it to her—I told her it had been given in payment for a penny candle—she said that her sister had come from London, and given it to her to help her, as she had been ill for a long time, and that she had sent her son for a penny candle and a quartern loaf—she said, "My sister came in the afternoon and gave me the shilling"—she said that she had not another farthing in the house—I went to her house again on the following evening—all her sons, John, James, and William were then there, and herself and another boy—John asked me in her presence, and in the presence of the other two boys, whether I could swear to the shilling, and I told him yes, I could—Margaret Kennerfick then gave me a good shilling—I took the bad shilling home to my father, and asked him what I had better do with it, and he told me I had better destroy it, and put it out of the way—I put it in the fire, and saw it melt and drop down through the grate.
Cross-examined. Q. After she said that she had not another farthing in the house, what did she say about her son? A. That he was going to work the next morning, and he would have some money then, and then she would
give it me—I went the next night in consequence of that statement—the shilling that I put in the fire was the one John brought me—I kept it in my hand all the time—I kept it from the time he gave it me, not in my pocket, but on my master's shelf, separately—there was no other money there; it was wrapped in paper.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two shillings found in the corner of the room, of 1836 and 1859, are both bad—the shilling uttered to Felthouse is counterfeit—it is of 1836, and from the same mould as one of those found in the corner of the room—Butlin's florin is counterfeit, and of 1859 (The Court considered that the shilling uttered to Jackson must be excluded)—here is a counterfeit groat found under the prisoner's bed—of those found in the closet, here are two counterfeit crowns of 1821 from the same mould, two of the best I have ever met with; here are nine counterfeit florins of 1859, all from one mould, and from the same mould as the one uttered; here are five counterfeit shillings, one of 1852, two of 1859, and two of 1860—the two of 1859 are from the same mould as the one found in the corner of the room—those of 1860 are from the same mould, and from the same mould as that objected to.
MR. BESLEY submitted that there was no evidence against the two boys for having counterfeit coin in their possession, the coins passed by them on different occasions not being any of those charged in the Indictment, which were those found in the room proved to be in the occupation of the woman; that the boys were not of an age to have possession apart from the mother, and that the fourpenny piece was not in the Indictment at all. MR. ROWDEN contended that the fact of the boys living in the same room, and having been two days previously passing counterfeit coin from the same mould as those found in the possession of the mother, and in the cupboard; was evidence of the possession of all, they having all been together when the money was found. MR. BESLEY stated that it would be very difficult for the jury, if it were left to them, to dismiss from their minds the coin uttered to Felthhouse; that there were, no doubt, other coins in the boys' possession independent of the mother, but the Indictment only included the coins found in the room; that if they were charged with uttering, the uttering by the boys might be used to show guilty knowledge on the part of the mother, but that there was no evidence to go to the jury in respect of the boys. THE COURT could not withdraw the case from the jury, but left it to them to say whether they believed the coins were in that room with the mother's knowledge, and under her control; and whether the boys, or either of them, could be said to have any possession or control over them, or whether they were merely employed by the mother or some other person; if they thought the latter, then the boys ought to be acquitted.
MARGARET KENNERFICK— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
WILLIAM KENNERFICK— GUILTY .— To be kept in a Reformatory for Three Years.
JAMES KENNERFICK— NOT GUILTY .
HE PLEADED GUILTY to the burglary only.
MR. SLEIGH, for the prosecutor, stated that he did not wish the prisoner, who was an American, to be confined, but that Dr. La Mert should be secured against personal violence, the prisoner having on a former occasion come to him with loaded pistols and demanded, and obtained, money.— Confined Six Months, and to enter into securities, himself in 50l. and two sureties in 25l. each, to keep the peace for twelve months.
PLEADED GUILTY.**†— Confined Six Months.
440. CHARLES MORRIS (51), Stealing a pair of boots, the property of Thomas Jones; also stealing a pewter coffee-pot, and a tin teapot, value together 15s., the property of William Chapman; to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY, and stated that he was not right in his head.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.
442. JOHN LEOPARD (23), Stealing on 25th February, 1861, 44 yards, on 14th April, 41 yards, and on 3d May, 3 yards of silk, the property of Robert Henry Hilditch and another, his masters; also on 7th June, 12 yards, on 24th August, 41 yards, and on 15th November, 38 yards of silk, the property of the same persons; to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY .
MR. SHARPE stated that the prisoner had given the prosecutors every facility for recovering their property. MR. ORRIDGE stated that that was so, but that of 250l. worth of property which was missed, they had only recovered 160l. worth.
Three Years' Penal Servitude.
443. HENRY KEENAN (46), Feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 5l. 13s., also embezzling the sum of 9l. 6s., also the sums of 7l. 14s. 6d., and 5l. 13s., received on account of Harry Bodkin Poland, his master, to all of which he PLEADED GUILTY , and received an excellent character. MR. COOPER for the prisoner, stated that he had a wife and seven children.
Confined Nine Months.
MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT MARTIN . I am a licensed victualler, and omnibus proprietor, residing at Lower Park-road, near Peckham—on Tuesday, 4th March, about a quarter past 5, I was standing at the end of Talbot-court, Gracechurch-Street, William Spong, an omnibus driver, was standing alongside of me—I saw the prisoner driving an omnibus—his omnibus was drawn round behind our's, with the pole drawn up so close to our door, that I oould not get on the board till the horses moved—I go with the omnibus occasionally at conductor—it is well known that the regulation made by the City is, that omnibuses ought to stand four feet apart—the prisoner drove up to the door with the pole as close to the door as he possibly could—I did not hear the prosecutor say a word to the prisoner—I could not get on the board, and no one could get into the omnibus—I turned round to two ladies to ask where they were going, and Spong was putting the horses of the prisoner's omnibus back, and the prisoner was whipping them up—the prisoner began lashing at him, and the horses too—I said, "For God's sake come away, else you will be drove through the door"—Mrs. Downing, Alderman Abbiss's assistant, was very much frightened, and persuaded him to do the same—the prisoner got down, threw the reins down and ran round the omnibus—Spong
did not come away, but put the horses back—he was at the horses' head—when the prisoner got down, he ran round and took him by the collar of his coat round the neck, shook him against the wheel, and they then went across the pavement together and fell in Talbot-court, Homewood atop—I saw them go down; after he fell, the prisoner took hold of him by the collar of his coat, pulled him up on his bottom as far as he could, hit him with his fist on the front of the head, and then let him go again, and when I looked at him, blood was coming out of his nose, left ear, and mouth—I think he struck him on the nose—he had got a black eye when I saw him the next day—he lay there for some minutes, and I was frightened and thought he was dead—the prisoner came to me and said, "Now I will serve you the same"—I said, "I think you have done quite sufficient, you have killed that man"—I did not see Spong strike the prisoner at all—there was no blow struck till after Spong was on the ground, except with the whip—there was none with the fist—he had Spong by the collar almost ready to throttle him—Spong had got his coat and gloves on ready to drive—as I was coming back from Peckham, the prisoner met me again, and offered to fight me.
Cross-examined by MR. HOLDSWORTH. Q. The other omnibus came up, did it not? A. Yes; it followed us—we were not at rest and he moving on, we had pulled up, the other bus was following, and pulled up behind—my bus has been there six years, and he has been there six or eight months—I am not opposition against him, he is opposition against me—there had not been any wrangling amongst us—I never spoke to him that day—there had not been any previously, in connexion with the opposition—I have had no quarrelling with him at all—there had been something about three weeks previously; he took off his coat and waistcoat and wanted to fight me, and Spong got between us and said, we had better have no bother, and he has got off his omnibus and tried to pull me off by the legs—Spong had not assaulted him before, or offered to fight him for drink, to my knowledge; if he has done it, it has been when he was not in my company—I cannot say that I know a person named Comfort—I know James Mann the time keeper, he stood there with me and saw the whole of it.
WILLIAM SPONG . I am omnibus driver to Mr. Martin of Peckham—on 4th March I was in Gracechurch-street, about a quarter past 5—the time-keeper gave me the time to start—I had just gone to get up on my omnibus but the pole of the defendant's omnibus bus against the door, prevented me—I could not get up in front because there was a cart close against our pole, and I had to go to the hind part—I wanted to go round to the other side of the bus and get up—I told the prisoner I wished him to put his horses back, for I could not get by—he did not do so—he said, "Your time is called, and it is time you were gone"—I then took the horses by the heads and put them back—he whipped both the horses up, my left side was against the step-board, and the horses' shoulder was against the side—he drove them close against the door—I put them back again, and he cut me several times across the hands with the whip—while I was putting them back a third time, he came round behind his omnibus, got me round the collar, and threw me up against the wheel of my omnibus, and then ran me up Talbot-court—that is all I recollect—I became insensible after that, the blood ran down the side of my head which was cut, here is the mark on my hat which came across the iron railing in the passage—I cannot say exactly how long I was insensible, for I found myself down at Billingsgate, sitting on a fish-stall there—I do not know how I got there, no one was with me—I then came up into Grace-church-street and went home by omnibus—when I got home I sent for a
surgeon and was in his hands a fortnight—I was prevented from going to my work for three weeks—I did not strike the prisoner at all—I had never quarrelled with him or threatened him in any way—I still feel the effects of the blows—the back of my head is very bad now, and I feel a singing in my cars.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean to say you had not had any quarrelling with the the prisoner before this occasion? A. Never—there was a quarrel one afternoon between Martin and him—I never challenged the prisoner to fight me for drink—I did not do so on this occasion—Mann, the time-keeper, called my time when I was going to get on the omnibus—I was not smoking a cigar at the time this took place, nor afterwards—I was not smoking a cigar in Gracechurch-street a very short time after this occured—I was under the doctor ten days or more—I do not know how I got to Billingsgate—I wandered about—I have no recollection of what occurred—I came back to my omnibus—I was there a tittle before 7 o'clock—I was sitting on one of the stalls at Billingsgate, and some boys were playing there and trod on my foot—they said, "Look at that man's face, look at the blood all running down," and they took me to the tap and washed my face, and then I came back—I saw no one at Billingsgate that I knew.
ALFRED HOWARD . I am a clerk in the City—on 4th March I was sitting on the near side of Martin's omnibus—I had been there about three minutes when Home wood came up on his bus, and drove his pole close against Martin's door—Martin's time was up, and Spong went to Homewood and asked him to put back his horses—he did not make any reply that I know of—Spong took hold of his horses' heads and backed them—the prisoner immediately slashed them back again on Spong—Spong pushed them back again and Homewood slashed at him with the whip—Spong again pushed the horses back, and the prisoner threw the reins down, got off the box, came round to Spong, caught him by the collar, forced him against the wheel and the board at the end of the bus, and then took him across up Talbot-court, and fell heavily on him—I saw that Spong was insensible, as the prisoner was getting off him—he hugged him tight—I could not set what passed but he struck him in the face—Spong was lying on the pavement bleeding, a crowd collected about a minute afterwards—no one went to Spong for a minute or so, and then a man came and took him in his arms.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see where Spong went to after this? A. No—I went away with Martin's bus about seven minutes afterwards—I would not be sure as to the time, that is all I know about it—I was sitting on the end seat, at the near side of the bus—there were no vehicles about, that I noticed—I could not see any vehicles behind Homewood's bus—I could not see whether there was any bus standing behind; busses do stand very frequently about there—I merely heard Spong ask the prisoner to put back his horses—Spong was sober—I did not hear him say anything to the prosecutor about fighting—I was near enough to have heard—I was right over his head—I was not particularly attending to this matter—there was not a policeman near till after Spong was insensible—two gentlemen on the bus cried "Police!" and "Shame!"—the prisoner whipped Spong across the hands, but his hands were protected with gloves—they scuffled towards Talbot-court, and there they fell—they fell intentionally—I could see that they were trying for the throw—it seemed that each was trying to throw the other—there was one blow struck by the prisoner after Spong was insensible; that was as they were lying on the ground together.
MR. KEMP. Q. Homewood raised him up and then Struck him again?
A. Yes—I was at the extreme end of the omnibus, on the near side, over the door—I could see the whole of it from beginning to end, I could see the pole touch the back—I was on the roof.
THOMAS DENNE . I am a surgeon, residing at Southampton-street, Peckham—I was called in to attend Spong on 4th March—I found he had suffered from the effects of blows, but from what cause I could not say—there was a scar over the left ear on the scalp, such as might be made by falling on a scraper—I heard that blood had been flowing from his ears; that would show that some internal injury had been caused, but I think the blood came from the scar and ran down from the ear—blood from the mouth would be caused by some external injury—he had evidently had a severe blow in the face—his right eye was slightly bleeding, and he had evidently had a blow on the nose.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there any injury of any serious character? A. There was the cut over the left ear, that was not more dangerous than scalp wounds generally are; it was only dangerous from the fear of erysipelas setting in; in itself the wound was not dangerous—erysipelas is more liable to set in from scalp wounds than from others.
MR. HOLDSWORTH called
JAMES MANN . I was time-keeper at this place in Gracechurch-street, and saw the transaction—at fifteen minutes past 5, I called the time to spong, and Homewood's bus immediately pulled up close to the door—Spong caught hold of the horses' heads and backed them; Homewood whipped then up and Spong backed them again; Homewood then got down, pushed him from his horses, and then they scuffled together—Spong fell on his back and Homewood atop of him—I desired both of them to take their carriages away—the prisoner got up—I did not see him do anything before he got up—I did not see any blow struck, nor any blood—as soon as the prisoner got up I desired him to take his carriage away, and while I was doing that, the policeman took him in charge—I saw the two fall, and I saw the prisoner get up—I did not see anything like his lifting Spong up by the collar and striking him—I did not go close enough—I was as near as I am to you now.
COURT to THOMAS DENNE. Q. Could that scalp wound have been made without any blood? A. No; there was a great deal of blood at the time, and also blood from the nose.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you see Spong lying insensible there? A. Yes—it is my duty to interfere in these matters, and I summoned them before one of the Aldermen—the summons was dismissed—I did not see any blood—I did not see any on the pavement—I went as fast as I could to get the carriages away, the obstruction was so great.
GEORGE COMFORT . I am a carman in the employ of Messrs. Christie & Co., of Graoechurch-street—I saw this transaction—it was on the 4th—about a quarter past 5 o'clock I was opposite Talbot-court, unloading my cart; I saw Homewood drive up behind Martin's bus, which was stopping there—the moment he drew up, the prosecutor took hold of the horses' heads rather roughly, and forced them back, and Homewood drove them up again—he forced them back a second time, and then Callum, the coachman, who usually goes with him, took hold of the prosecutor's arms and pushed him back—after that Homewood got down and shoved him away, and asked him why he interfered with his horses—he came up and did the same again, and took hold of Homewood and shoved him back, and after that I saw them
tustling together—that is all I saw—I was the opposite side of the street on my cart—I saw the fall, but could not hear any language pass—I saw the prosecutor get up—I cannot say there was no blood, as I was at that distance—I saw Spong get up with the assistance of the policeman—he was up when the policeman came—I saw him fall—I cannot say whether he was insensible or not, but a second or two afterwards he got up by himself—I did not see him smoking a cigar a short time afterwards.
JOSEPH STOCK (City-policeman, 589). I was sent for on this afternoon to Talbot-court, and found the prosecutor standing without any assistance, with a crowd of people round him—his nose had been bleeding—I asked him the cause of it, and whether he would go to a hospital or a doctor's—he refused and said he was all right—he went to a public-house to wash himself—I saw him again about 6 o'clock, about three-quarters of an hour aftewards, standing in the court, and I asked him whether he should lose his place through fighting—he said, "No, only an odd man is gone on that journey"—he said nothing about fighting—I did not see him insensible.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. You did not see the quarrel take place? A. No.
COURT. Q. What time was it when you got there? A. About a quarter past 5—I did not look exactly at the time—the prosecutor was bleeding from the nose, and a small cut on the back of the head.
JAMES POCKETT . I am coachman to Mr. Wheatley, of Greenwich—I saw William Spong on the evening of 4th March, before 6 o'clock, in Talbot-court—he told me of the occurrence that had taken place, and that he would wait there for William Homewood's next journey from Peckham to fight it out—he did not seem insensible—there seemed nothing at all the matter with him.
COURT. Q. Did he seem angry? A. No—he was standing up in the court.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you see any blood on him? A. No; there was no appearance of any marks of blood—I did not notice that he had a black eye, or any scar, nothing whatever—I do not know the man who is sitting behind you—I have had no conversation with him—I did not tell him that I saw the blood coming out of his ears.
The prisoner received a good character.— GUILTY. MR. HOLDWORTH stated that the prisoner was in a position to pay a fine, that his brother was then lying dead, and he had no one to manage his business, and that if he was imprisoned his business would have to be sold, and he would be quite ruined. MR. KEMP stated that he could not concur in that proposition, then having been a large amount of deliberation shown by the prisoner about the transaction.
The printer was ordered to pay a fine of 5l. to the Crown, and 5l. to the prosecutor for his loss and expenses; and to enter into his own recognisances in 20l. and two sureties in 10l. each to keep the peace for twelve months.
FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, April 9th, 1862.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLAM METCALFE . I live at Fenny Stratford, in Huntingdonshire—I know the prisoner—I was present at hit first marriage, somewhere about 8th October, 1843—he was married at St. Anne's Church, Dean-street, Soho—I have seen the first wife since—I last saw her on Saturday—I was ordered to call at Colney-hatch Asylum—I called there and saw her, and was with her for about an hour—she is the woman he married—I lost sight of them since the marriage for, perhaps, eight or nine years—I lived in the neighbourhood and I knew they were separated—they lived together three or four years before I heard they were separated—I lost sight of them after that—I first knew that the woman was in a lunatic asylum about a fortnight ago—(certificate read:—"October 8th, 1842. Marriage solemnized at St. Anne's, Westminster, between Thomas Mason, and Matilda Garehern, by banns by me, Henry Charles Seller, in the presence of us, William Metcalfe, and Elizabeth Metcalfe. George J. Storey, curate.")—her name was Garehern—she is a German.
GEORGE BACHELOR (Police-sergeant, 19 G). I took the prisoner in custody, and told him that I wanted him on a charge of bigamy—a few minutes afterwards he said "My cousin has done this for me; she knew I was a married man"—the second wife is his cousin—she was present at that time—I got the certificate which has been produced, at St. Anne's—this is the second one—(read.—"21st January, 1855. Marriage solemnised between Thomas Mason, and Sarah Hands, by me, J. A. Jacobs, curate; in the presence of us, Sarah Hands and Mary Stevens.")
SARAH HANDS . I was married to the defendant on 21st January, 1855—I have a child by him—I continued to live with him two years and a half—I knew he was a married man at the time I was married to him, but he said his first wife was dead—I have heard that that is not so for some time; but not known it as a fact—I did not continue to live with him after I found it out—I have not been living with him for four years.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Have you a mother? A. No; she is dead—she died seven years ago next June, I think—the defendant had two children by his first wife—they were taken charge of by my mother—she had the youngest four years, two years and a half after the date of the marriage—I lived with the defendant when I was married to him, not before—he is my cousin—I made no inquiries as to his first wife—I did not tell, him that I had inquired about his first wife or that I had found that she had been an inmate of the Lambeth workhouse, and she was then dead and buried—I told him nothing, of the sort—I will swear I said nothing of that sort before the marriage, or anything to that effect—he told my mother that his wife was dead—I cannot say what year it was that the children were with my mother—it was before I was married—I do not know how many years before—I cannot tell you whether it was in 1847—I do not know whether it was in 1847 or 1848—the eldest child was with my mother a twelvemonth, and the youngest four years—it was not as much as seven years before I was married that they were with my mother—I did not know that his first wife had deserted him—I had a quarrel with him at the end of two years and a
half—we had many quarrels before and after—I cannot say which was the last time—I remember his slapping my face, and I had him up before Mr. Ingram, at Hammersmith, and he got a month—I did not go to his employers and tell them—they knew his character full well—I never told him that I had inquired and found that his first wife was dead—I knew that his first wife was not living with him when the children were with my mother—that is at least six or seven years ago.
MR. METCALFE. Q. You believed that she was dead at the time you married? A. Yes; in consequence of what he told me.
MR. BESLEY called
HARRIET OSBORNE . I know the defendant and his first wife Margaret—I knew them in 1846, and 1847—they were then living in a court in Drury-lane—the name I do not know—I was not in the court when his wife went away; but I met Mr. Mason a short time afterwards; and he told me she had gone away—I did not know them after that—I never saw any misconduct on his part to his first wife.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you see anything of the defendent after that? A. No; I left the court just before they did—when I left they were both in the court living together—I saw them twice or thrice a day—I have seen nothing unkind on his part—I saw him now and then afterwards—I did not know where he was living—I did not make any inquiries about him—I had no reason to do so.
COURT. Q. Have you ever seen the wife since you saw them together in 1847? A. Yes; I saw her about five years ago, at the end of Tottenham Court-road—I did not speak to her—I saw her there.
Sarah Hand, the second wife, stated that the prisoncr had behaved very cruelly to her while she lived with him, and that he was now living with another woman.
Confined Twelve Months.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS MARTIN . I keep the Albion Hotel, Albion-road, Hammersmith—I know the prisoner—he has often been to my house as a customer—about 30th March, 1861, he said to me, if I would lend him 3l. on his gold watch and chain, which was worth 20l., he would be much obliged to me—he was wearing it then and he took it out of his pocket and wrapped it up in paper—I thought it was a gold watch, and gave him the money—I put the watch and chain in my pocket wrapped up in paper—I took it up to Mr. Prince's, a watchmaker, on the Monday—this was on the Saturday.
COURT. Q. Did he say anything about how he had got the watch? A. No; he represented that it was worth 20l.
THOMAS VALLANCE . I live at 24, Ernest-street, Kensington, and am a working jeweller—not a particle of this watch and chain is gold—the intrinsic value, of them is nothing—there are some works in the watch—the case is of no value, or the chain—the works are only of value as a toy.
Prisoner. I did not know the value of it any more than he did.
ARTHUR TARRANT (Police man, K 192). I apprehended the prisoner, and told him he was chained with, obtaining money under false pretences—Mr. Martin said, "His name is Chapman"—he said, "You are mistaken, my name is not Chapman; I know nothing about it"—I took him to Arbour-square police-station—he gave his address, "2, Church-road, Barking"—that was a false address—I went there—afterwards he gave me another
address, 22, Toddey-Street, Bridge-road, Bethnal-green—that was his correct address.
Prisoner. I told him that at first—have got ten houses in Church-road, Barking.
THOMAS MARTIN (re-examined). This was in March, 1861—he did not come to my house again to redeem the watch—he left his house and took the furniture with him, and I never saw him any more till he was apprehended.
The prisoner put in a written defence, in which he stated he was a builder, and in the seventy-fourth year of his age; that he had a wife and two children, and that he was not guilty of the charge again sthim.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury in consequence of his extreme age.
Confined Nine Months.
There was another indictment against the prisoner for uttering a bill of exchange.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, April 10th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. JUSTICE MELLOR; Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. PHILLIPS;
Mr. Ald. BESLEY; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Justice Mellor.
MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM SMEE . I am one of the police constables attached to the General Post-office in St. Martin's-le-Grand—in consequence of instructions, I was watching on 12th March, in such a position that I could see the passage which leads from the Inland Office to the District Office—it is a passage about five feet wide—it runs direct under the hall where the public pass through—there are steps to go down at one end from the Inland Office and steps to go up to the District Office at the other end—at one end of it there are folding doors—about half-past 6 that morning I saw the prisoner come from the Inland Office—I knew him previously by sight—he was a sorter in the Post-office—he was coming from the Inland Office to the London District Office, through the tunnel, with four or five large letters in his right hand, with his left hand placed underneath—whilst he was going through I observed him draw his left hand with a smaller letter, from underneath—it was a bluish-looking coloured envelope—he crumpled it up in his fist, and placed it in his left hand coat-pocket—I believe he has on the same coat now—he went through into the London District Office, and I lost sight of him for about a minute; not through the folding-doors; he was through them when I saw him—I followed him through afterwards, and met him returning from the Letter-carriers' Office towards the Inland Office—he had nothing in his hand then—I stopped him and took him into the Comptroller's room—he was close against the door when I met him—he there
commenced putting his hands first into his waistcoat-pocket and then into his coat-pocket—I told him to keep his hands out of his pockets, and sent for the inspector, Mr. Delany—I had no one with me at the moment but the prisoner—a messenger came in with some letters for the President just at the moment, and I sent him for him—upon Mr. Delany's arrival, I said to him, "I have reason to believe the prisoner has a letter in his pocket that does not belong to him"—the prisoner could hear that—Mr. Delany in reply said, "Have you, Cooke?"—the prisoner said, "No, sir; what I have is my pockets belongs to myself"—I then asked the prisoner if he had any objection to be searched—he said, "No"—I commenced searching him, and it his left-hand coat-pocket I found this cloth; at that time there was some bread and butter in it, and the letter, now produced, crumpled up—it was the coat-pocket where I had previously seen him put his hand—the letter was crumpled up and shoved down by the side of the cloth in the pocket, between the cloth and the side of the pocket, shoved down tight—the letter was not in the state in which it would come from the Post-office; it was crumpled right up: the same as if a person were to take a piece of paper in their hand and crumple it up—it is addressed, "Messrs. F. L. Carver & Co. 57, Skinner Street, London, E.C."—it was opened before the Magistrate, and contained a half-sovereign in a card, nine penny postage-stamps, and an order for a new hat—the card was crumpled up—it was smoothed out when it was opened—the envelope bears the London postage-stamp of the morning of the 12th, and the stamp of St. Columb, Cornwall, of the llth—after I had done searching the prisoner I said to him,"Is this your letter, Cooke?"—he said, "No; if that came out of my pocket, some one must have put it then; I know nothing about it"—I then asked where he lived—he said at 55, Gopsall-street, Hoxton—I asked what part of the house he occupied—he said the two parlours and back kitchen—I went there and found a quantity of Money in two cash-boxes, amounting altogether to 312l. and some promissory notes—the prisoner subsequently told me that he had brought it home from Australia, and he was going to purchase a house in Pakington-street, Islington; I think he said for 430l.—he said he was endeavouring to raise the money to pay that sum—as I was about taking the prisoner from the Comptroller's room to another room of our own, he said, "This is a piece of villany on the part of some one; I will swear before all the judges in London, if it was necessary, that I never saw that letter before"—I said, "It is no use you talking in that way to me, Cooke; it is not the first letter you have put in your pocket, and that I know with my own knowledge"—the prisoner replied, "Oh no, sir, you are wrong"—he was then taken into custody—directly I commenced searching him Mr. Powley, the president of the London District Office, came in—I found a pocket-book in the prisoner's pocket, containing some memorandums; there was no other paper in that pocket—Rumbold, a brother officer, was with me when I was watching the prisoner—he was with me at the place where I first saw the prisoner in the passage.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE (with MR. F. H. LEWIS.) Q. What was the amount of the cash you found? A. 235l. in gold—I understood the prisoner to say he was going to pay 430l. for the house—I did not find a receipt on him for a portion of the rent—I found a copy of a lease in his breast coat pocket; I suppose it was the lease of the house he spoke of; it is here—all the papers are here—there may be a receipt from the landlord for 99l. there—I have not gone through the papers carefully; I have not had my attention called to that—there is a receipt there, I do
not know for What amount, it is for part payment of the house—in addition to that there were, I think, two or three promissory notes; everything is here that was brought away—these were all found on his person; I have kept them separate—I do not see a promissory note amongst these—to the best of my belief this paper was found in his breast coat pocket—I do not know whether the person who has signed this, "Hy. Chas. Holgate," is a clerk in the Post-office; I do not know him—the prisoner said that he had been applying to some letter-carrier for money that was owing to him; he stated that at Bow-street—in his box was a license applicable to the diggings in Australia, and one small nugget.
MR. CLERK. Q. Were the papers you found on the prisoner loose or contained in anything? A. Some were in the pocket-book with an elastic band round them; they were in the inside breast pocket, to the best of my belief, and likewise the lease, that was sticking out about two inches—when I took him his coat was open, not buttoned—I could see the lease sticking out of his pocket as he passed along the passage.
HENRY RUMBOLD . I am a constable attached to the Post-office—on the morning of 12th March, about a quarter to 6, I was with Smee watching—I had received instructions, there is a passage going from the Inland Office to the District Office—while I was watching I saw the prisoner, about half-past 6, going from the Inland Office to the District Office—the under ground passage is lighted by gas—he had some letters in his right hand, with his left hand placed close under the right with the letters—as he came towards me, he drew from underneath the packet in hia left hand, a bluish coloured envelope, crumpled it up and put it into his left coat pocket—he then went on into the District Office.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see his pocket searched? A. No, I did not; he was searched before I went into the Comptroller's Office—I belive he had been sorting from 5 o'clock that morning; that is a process that is done very rapidly.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE to WILLIAM SMEE. Q. Had the prisoner a tobacco pouch? A. Yes; in his right-hand coat pocket, not the pocket where the letter was—I asked the prisoner, in the Comptroller's room, if the letter was his, and he said "No"—to the best of my belief he did not at that time say it was a piece of viliany; that was afterwards—I will not undertake to swear he did not say at that time, because there was a good deal said.
WILLIAM PAWLEY . I am one of the chief officers of the Post-office—on the morning of 12th March, I went into the Comptroller's room after the prisoner had been taken there by Smee—I saw this letter in the officer's hands; it was then crumpled up, like it is now.
JOHN DELANEY . I am an inspector of letter carriers in the Post-office—the prisoner was a letter carrier in the General Post-office—he has been engaged there about six yean and a half—on the morning of 12th March, he was engaged in subdividing letters—he began his duties about five minutes past 5 o'clook—he would be engaged until about twenty minutes to 7, or a quarter to 7, or nearly 7 o'clock; it all depends upon whether the work is very heavy—he was employed in the Inland Office, in the A section of the East Central district—this letter, addressed to Messrs. Carver, Skinner-street, would go to the A section, in due course—there would be three or four persons engaged in sorting there at that time I think; I am not quite sure; there might be more—the prisoner was not immediately under my control—I was sent for to the Comptroller's room on this morning; I found
the prisoner and Smee there—I did not see the letter taken from the prisoner's pocket—Smee said in his presence, "I have reason to believe, sir, that this man has a letter in his possession which does not belong to him"—I said, "Is that so, Cooke"—he said, "No, sir"—a letter carrier should not take letters from one part of the office to the other without he has orders from his superior officer, the superintending sorter—there are collectors regularly employed, who clear away the letters when they are subdivided—a portion is taken to the letter carriers' office, which is the London district office, and there the letters are made up for delivery.
Cross-exmined. Q. Up to what time do the letter collectors collect in the morning? A. Up to about 6.45 or 6.50; they do not sometimes conclude much earlier—if a collector is not there the superintendent sorter will, at the conclusion of the duty, if he finds the work getting heavy, send one of the sorters to assist—Mr. Richardson is the superintending sorter.
JOSEPH JOHN RICHARDSON . I am superintendent of the sorters of the General Post-office—the prisoner was employed in the A section on the morning of 12th March, in the East Central district—when letters are sorted in the Inland office they are taken to the district office or letter carriers' office, to be set up by the letter carriers—there are carriers regularly appointed to attend to that duty—a certain number of the letter sorters are appointed the last thing to take the letters over, before the despatch—there are eleven persons appointed for that duty—the prisoner was not one of the persons so appointed on 12th March.
Cross-examined. Q. When you say eleven persons, do you mean eleven of the sorters? A. Yes; they are not appointed by writing, but by my own arrangement—I tell them how they are to act—a person has no right, according to the strict regulations of the business, to do so unless I tall him—I have not been examined before.
JURY. Q. Do you recollect whether you instructed the prisoner on this morning to take over any portion of the remaining letters? A. Decidedly not; it is a permanent arrangement.
COURT. Q. When did you hear the charge against the prisoner? A. Not until some minutes after he was taken—I heard it the same day.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do not you know, as a matter of fact, that the sorters who are left last, when there are letters to be conveyed over, constantly take them without any order whatever? A. No; it is no such thing, I am quite certain—the names of the eleven persons employed are taken down in a book—that book is in existence.
MR. CLERK. Q. What is the last time that letters are taken over? A. Seven o'clock—the letter collectors take them out three times; every quarter of an hour, up to a quarter to 7—up to that time, no person engaged in sorting would take letters from the one office to the other except those eleven.
COURT. Q. You say that the collectors come every quarter of an hour? A. Yes—at the last, there being a certain number of letters left, I give instructions to some of the sorters to take them over, so as not to detain the letter carriers in their despatch.
WILLIAM MAJOR CARDELL . This letter, addressed to Mr. Carver, is my writing—I inclosed in it an order and this card, with a half-sovereign inserted in it, and nine penny postage stamps—when I put the card into the letter it was not crumpled up, as it is now, but quite straight.
The prisoner received an excellent character.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. CLERK and BESLEY conducted the Prosecution.
MR. SLEIGH appeared for the Defence.
The details of this case were not of a nature for publication; the death was alleged to be caused by the negligence of the prisoner during his attendance as a medical man upon the deceased in her confinement.
GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, April 10th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. BARON WILDE; Sir John MUSGROVE, Bart. Ald.; and
Mr. Ald. PHILLIPS.
Before Mr. Baron Wilde.
452. CHLOM REICHBERG, alias Hart (45), was again indicted (see page 617) with ABRAHAM ROSENBERG (55), and KOIFMAN WEBER (35), for feloniously having in their possession 2 stones tnd 1 plate engraved with divers parts of a Russian rouble note, without the authority of the Emperor of Russia.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CORDER . I am a lithographer and printer, of 24, Derby-street, Birmingham—I carried on business in Howard-street at this time—at the latter end of February or the beginning of March last year, Rosenberg called upon me and asked me if I would do some indecent prints'which be produced, and which I refused—on another occasion he asked me if I would make my fortune: if I would do something—he produced a Russian rouble note, and asked me if I would engrave it; what we call get it up—I said that I would rather not, and after a few minutes he went away—he called again next day, I believe, and asked me if I would carry out the execution of that note—he produced it again, and I asked him why he did not get it done in his own country—be said that the risk was very great there, and the punishment was great; in England they were not so severe, but in Russia they would send their wives and families to Siberia—be said that I should have 300l. for executing it—I was to engrave the whole of the plates necessary for producing fac similes of the rouble note, and I was to print a quantity—I agreed to engrave it, and be said that he would send me a genuine not to work from, by post—I received this note (produced) next morning; it was not in this state; I made it so by means of varnish, and out off the corners for the purpose of executing it—I saw Rosenberg again on, I think, the afternoon of the same day—be asked me if 1 had received the note all right—I produced it, and he asked me if I had done any portion—he wished me to do a portion of the red, the chocolate part, the ornamental border, and when I had done it to send it directed to K. Weber, 4, Nelson-street South, Birmingham, to show my ability—he gave me a printed card of the name of the street—I have not got it; Mrs. Corder burnt it—I proceeded to execute on stone the border which he required; I think I did it the same day—I struck off three or four proofs, and sent two to the address given—I had made a communication to Mr. Glossop, the chief superintendent of police at Birmingham, and to Mr. Collis—I think I traced the note before I spoke to the police, but am not sure; that was the commencement of the process.
COURT. Q. Had you got any further than the tracing? A. I think not, but am not certain—I believe I had not spoken to the police before I sent
that proof, but I called on Mr. Collis, the Vice-Consul for Russia, before—that was my first step—I saw him and told him—that was on the same day that I traced out the border, but whether I traced it after I went or before I do not know—I communicated with the police that same day—I went down with Mr. Collis.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. On executing that proof, did you send a duplicate proof to Mr. Tandy, the inspector of police at Birmingham? A. I did—this proof (produced by Inspector Tandy) is of the same stone—I sent one like this to that direction by post, and on the next day, I think, Rosenberg came and grumbled that I had written anything inside the envelope—I had asked him in the letter if it was sufficiently good—he said that I should not have put any writing—he said that it would do very nicely, and I was to go on; he was very well satisfied—he came again in a day or two with Tobias, who is not in custody—he said before he brought them that he must show these portions to them—Reichberg also came on another occasion; they were continually calling—Rosenberg came again with Tobias only, and again, I think, the same day with Tobias and Reichberg—Rosenberg produced the proof which I had sent to Weber—he kept that one himself; be always carried it in his pocket—he produced it and described the different technicalities of the note, and the different ways that the border ran, which was a thing I should not have noticed if it had not been pointed out—the ornaments at the top run to the left and to the right, but at the bottom they both run towards the centre; it is a thing which no casual observer would notice—a conversation took place about the progress of the work, and I was ordered to go on with it—Rosenberg said that if I got on I should have some money on account—from that time, and for weeks afterwards, I received continual visits from them, but not so much from Reichberg as from Rosenberg—I saw Weber about three weeks after the first interview; he came alone, and said that he was a gentleman from London, and then he introduced himself as Mr. Weber, and said he would bring up two gentlemen "On that business; you know"—I then mentioned the names, Reichberg and Tobias—he said, "Yes"—he then went away and called with them the same afternoon; the proofs of the note were then produced, and we talked about them—I cannot tell exactly the words, but it was in reference to the proofs, and to several minute details in reference to the shape of the Russian letters—they did not stop long then, but they came again in the evening and brought some sardines and biscuits with them—they stayed till half-past 12 at night—they sent out for some ale, and then the notes were produced—they sent the nurse for some water, into which they dipped the note and held it up to the gas to show me the water-mark, which then became very distinct—they showed me several other things connected with the note, especially the shape of the Russian characters—I had at that time an impression in full, of the face of the note ready for them, which had been struck off from the stone; that is the promissory part, "I promise to pay"—that is one of the stones which Mr. Tandy has—the engine turned work was then done—these two stones (produced) are for the face; they are quite similar to each other; they are both so exactly alike that I can hardly tell which one I used—this is the first I made, the smaller one; it was produced and shown to them—I think the plate was engraved subsequently—two or three hours were occupied in examining the proofs and the water-mark—one evening Weber and Tobias called—they came up in the office and sketched me conjointly the pattern of the water-mark on a piece of card-board; at least, I sketched it under their direction—I gave it to the police—
this (produced) is it—they sketched it on another piece of paper, and I believe they tore it up—all these matters were handed by me into the custody of the police—I got the groundwork of the water-mark engraved subsequently in London, on copper, by McCullmn, of Lincoln's Inn-field—this (produced) is it—I can tell it by one or two imperfections—it was executed in London according to my order, and I showed it to all of the prisoners—they expressed themselves very much pleased with it, and offered to buy me a machine to do the work myself instead of sending it to London to be done—they then wanted to see the beck border and some of the small writing on the back, which was very particular—I omitted to say that I had two more one rouble Russian notes, one from Weber and the other from Tobias or Rosenberg, I will not be sure which, for the purpose of working from—this note was not very distinct after it was varnished, and I wanted a clean one—the letters at the back are very minute; you have to use a glass to see them—they promised to buy me a magnifying-glass, and when I got home I found an eye-glass had been left which I and they used at times in examining the work—I struck off impressions from the copper-plate, and one came from London with it—I struck off impressions for them on very thin paper, and gave them to them—I subsequently procured them two daguerreotype plates on copper, silvered (produced), of the back of the note—I had two, because this one was not sufficiently distinct to cut—the object of that was to work from it more easily than from the back of the note—it only required cutting out the work that was daguerreotyped upon it—this (produced) is one of the two notes I received from Weber—I wanted a very nice, clean one, because the work on the back was so minute; and he said he would go to London and get me one—he brought this excursion bill to me (produced), or a similar one, prior to going, and asked me to write down the date on a piece of paper, the times he could go and come back by, and the fare—this is my writing on it—Weber speaks English very well—I do not know why he could not see for himself—this other note was given me by Rosenberg Weber, or Tobias—a few days after I made out that paper with the times on it, Weber came from London—he was away a few days—I received this letter (produced)—I cannot say whether it is Weber's writing—I filed it on my receipt file, and after he came back to Birmingham from London be asked me if I received his letter.
MR. COOPER. Q. Was the letter produced when he spoke of it? A. I had it in my pocket—I cannot say whether I showed it to him; but I believe I merely said, "Yes"—(Read:"London, 26, Houndsditch. Dear Sir, I arrived from Birmingham at London safe. I spoke to Mr. Tobias, so he does not know the reason why Reichberg is not come back from Paris. He expected him this week with his partner together; so soon as he will be here they will all come to Birmingham. I am sorry to say that Mr. Tobias cannot walk yet; he has got a young brother come to him from his country, because he write home that he was ill. I would not buy that pattern what you wanted, 52, because Reichberg will bring with him new ones, all sorts of patterns. I shall bring with me what I promised you. Yours truly, K. Weber. My address is 26, Gravel-lane, Houndsditch."
COURT. Q. What is the meaning of "I would not buy that pattern that you wanted, 52"? A. They wanted a 50l. rouble note, and I would not go on with it without the pattern—I do not know what 52 is; I cannot make it out—"I shall bring you what I promised you" means a new note—the letter has the London post mark on it.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. What next was done after Weber's return from London?
A. I went on with different portions of it, and they called at different times—Reichberg and Tobias were sometimes in London and sometimes in Paris—I was told when they did not call that they were in Paris—I subsquently took impressions as the work went on, and sent some of them to London, to Rosenberg—he gave two addresses: No. 4, Little Prescott-street, Goodman's-fields, London, and 19, Little Alie-street, Whitechapel—I sent him proofs to both places—he gave me the address for that purpose—one was addressed to Reichberg at one of those addresses, and when Rosenberg came back to London, on a subsequent occasion, he told me that the proofs had been received all right, that he met Reichberg at a Jew's eating-house or dining-rooms, who told him that he had received them—these two stones are identical as regards the impressions—the first one was not sufficiently correct—they were so very minute in examining with the eye-glass that they discovered one or two places in some of the letters—they also said that the paper which I found was not sufficiently good, and they would find other paper—Rosenberg had an impression pulled on some paper which he brought—he said that the paper ought to be very tough, so that it would bear water without tearing; and they all explained pretty nearly the same thing to me—the toughness of the paper was a very important point—these (produced) are two impressions which I pulled from the first stone—Rosenberg explained to me that the notes would be many yean before they reached the bank, as it was such a vast country; and that the people were very uneducated, and could scarcely read their own notes—Reichberg cannot speak many words of English—they ceased to call upon me about November—they wanted to take away the stones and other materials, but I would not let them have them—I had not produced a perfect note; there are six printings to produce a perfect impression—this is the groundwork for the colour, the yellow, a stone which is destroyed, was for the chocolate—these are for the promissory parts, "I promise to pay;" and these plates are of the back, with the small writing and the border—the eagle was never done at all; but it is upon these plates—I never engraved a plate like this—this plate was never finished; I litho-graphed the border of it—about a month or two after the commencement of the matter, Rosenberg proposed that he and I should jointly turn round upon the others, inform the Government, and obtain a reward—he said that he could obtain 80l.—I asked him how I could have any confidence in him if he could tell of his own persuasion, and he said that he only did it to try me—about a week afterwards, Weber proposed the same thing to me, in almost the same words; but he did not say how much money there was—I told him that Rosenberg had proposed the same thing—he said that he was a bad man; and I said that he said he only did it to try me; and Weber said that he had only done it to try me—Ann Parsons is the person who was at my house—she was the nurse to my wife who was ill; and was there when the beer and biscuits were got.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. You took the advice of those two prisoners, and did inform the Government? A. I had done that before—I was not offered a penny reward—nothing was said about any reward for my trouble by Mr. Collis; he seemed to throw cold water upon the matter; he said that he had seen so many of these cases that he thought it was a trap to get me to execute the thing, and then they would inform the Government against me—I have been in Birmingham about eight years, carrying on the business of lithographing and engraving; I was employing eight or ten people last year at the time Reichberg was in communication with me about the stones, but printers do not stop very long—they were at work in
my shop—I first saw Reichberg in the entry of the house leading to the shop; that is an entry through which my workmen pass and repass—that was when Tobias and Rosenberg came—I think it was in March; it was the beginning of the case, but after Rosenberg had first been—he did not come into the house on that occasion, he remained in the entry; Tobias and Rosenberg were up stairs, and I went down and saw him in the entry—Reichberg first came into the house the day that we had the supper—only my family were living in my house at that time; my wife and children, the servant girl, and Mrs. Parsons, the monthly nurse—the nurse waited on them; the girl, I believe, was there, but she did not stop up so late—that was the only occasion when Reichberg was in the house—I distinguish the house from the shop and the office; he had been in the office twice or three times, not more; he was the last there of any.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Do you owe any money to either of these men? A. No—I have been sued twice by Rosenberg; I disputed the account, but I was out of town and could not attend, and therefore I paid it—it was 4l. or 5l., and was for some framing which Rosenberg had done for me—I disputed it because he overcharged me; I only disputed a part of it—I have only had two sovereigns from him on account; one was on the night of the sardine supper—I was to have 300l., but Rosenberg explained that another engraver in Birmingham had robbed them of 60l., which they had advanced to him, so they would not pay until the plate was complete and I had printed off sufficient to represent 300,000l.—I suppose I shall get 3s. 6d. a day for this; I am only receiving my railway fare—I have not been led to expect anything except what the law allows me; in fact, it has nearly mined me—I was insolvent once, some years ago—I paid this money to Rosenberg, and have the receipt on my file—I was not arrested—I never was convicted of assaults, or riot, or anything.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Have you always been a lithographer? A. For the last eight years—I was drawing master in a school before that—this (produced) is similar to the card Weber handed to me—I knew at the time that he was a tailor carrying on business at Birmingham; it says so on the card—he told me that Reichberg was living with him—I understood him to say that he was a gentleman from London, and not that he came from some gentlemen of London; but before he saw me he saw Mrs. Corder—I was out at the time—he spoke of the gentlemen from London, and I afterwards mentioned Rosenberg and Tobias, and he said, "Yes"—I cannot count how many times Weber came, I was going to say eighty times—he appeared to be an interpreter to the other men, because Tobias and Reichberg could only speak a few words of English—they told me that they made Weber their interpreter—I do not remember them saying before Weber came that they would look out for some man who could interpret for them—I told Weber, before he went to London, that I could not work from the note I had—I did not ask him to purchase a Russian note for me, but he said that he would—I did not pay him for it; I never gave him a half-penny in my life—I did not go to his house on a Sunday and receive the note from him; he brought it to me, because I did not know when he came back from London—these men were alone with me each time, because we locked the office door, except on the occasion of the sardine supper—I never said, "Do not tell Weber anything about it," or, "You had better not tell Weber anything about it," because I considered them all as one.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You have been asked if you have ever been insolvent; have you since paid 20s. in the pound? A. Yes—I have never been
convicted of any offence—many years ago I was I little the worse for liquor and broke some lamps, for which I had to pay—I was with a barrister, and I screened him—it was generally after the workmen left at night, that these persons came.
HENRIETTA CORDER . I am the wife of the last witness—I have never seen Reichberg at my husband's house, but I have seen the other two on more occasions than one—I have seen these stones and plates a great many times, on the table in the back kitchen—I have seen them both look at them, but not together.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Were you often present when they were there? A. Yes; on domestic affairs—I ran in and out, through the kitchen uninterruptedly, while they were there.
ANN PARSONS . I am a widow—I did live in Birmingham, but do not now—I am a monthly nurse—I attended Mrs. Corder five or six weeks last year, and saw all the three prisoners there—I have seen them there together—I have seen Reichberg, Weber, and Tobias—I never saw Reichberg and Rosenberg there together, but I have seen Rosenberg there by himself often—I remember one night supper being in the kitchen, sardines, beer, and so forth; I went for the beer—Reichberg was there, and Weber, and Tobias—I saw some stones on the table—they asked me for a jug of water, and when I brought it they turned it into a basin and dropped a piece of paper into it
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. This, I suppose, took place in March last? A. The beginning of March—Sergeant Brett recalled my attention, about six weeks ago, to what took place while I was a monthly nurse at Mr. Corder's—he asked me whether I had been nurse at Mr. Corder's, and whether I had seen some people at supper there; I said, "Yes;" and he asked me whether I should know them again if I saw them—I saw them again, all together, in the dock at the Mansion-house, when I came to London.
—MCCULLUM. I am a printer, of Carey-street, Lincoln's-inn-fields—in April, 1861, a person called on me, representing himself as the traveller of Mr. Corder, of Birmingham, and I executed for him this engine-turned plate—I employed a person, named Fautrey, to do it for me.
GEORGE PHILIP TANDY . I am inspector of the detective police at Birmingham—in March, 1861, Mr. Corder made a communication to me of a certain application made to him, and, with my concurrence, he went on receiving the prisoners—in January, 1862, Brett came down from London, and, on 18th January, I went to Rosenberg's house, 54, Gooch-street, Birmingham—Brett told him that we were police-officers, and that he would be charged with forging Russian rouble notes—we said that we should search his house, and he said that we could do so—Brett asked him if he had any rouble notes in the house, genuine or forged; or any copies or specimens of notes—he said that he had not—we searched and found a small box on the mantel-piece, and among some letters and papers we found this. (The varnished note)—I handed it to Brett, who said, "Where did you get this from?"—he said, "About twelve months ago an old man came to my house begging, a foreigner; he asked me to buy this, and I gave him 3s. for it—Brett asked him if it was in the same state now as when he bought it—he said, "Yes"—he asked him if he knew him—he said, "I did not; he was a stranger"—nothing further was found in the house—we went to Weber's house on
the 19th, and made the same statement to him—he said, "I have nothing at all here"—we searched the rooms, and in a room up stairs, which he used as a workshop, found a coat hanging on a door, in a pocket of which I found this paper (produced)—I opened it, and showed it to Brett—Weber then said, "Mr. Corder gave me that paper"—I found this time table in the same pocket, and this small bit of paper with written instructions on it.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Can you tell me the exact time Coder made the communication to you? A. On Tuesday, 5th March, and on 11th March I again saw him with an officer from London—he then gave me the specimen I have produced; the chocolate paper.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Has there been a watch kept on Rosenberg since March? A. Not continually, but occasionally—no one in particular watched him.
EUGENE KLEIN . I have the supervision of one of the printing departments of bank notes in the Bank of Russia—I have had some engravings struck off these stones—this is the promise to pay part of a one rouble note, and this is the same—this engraving is an engine-turned ground work, but on a rouble note it is printed in yellow colour—this is a genuine one rouble note; it would fetch nearly 3s. in London; the exchange is a little less now—here are two photographs taken from the back of a one rouble note.
Mary Ann Taylor, of Birmingham, gave Weber a good character.— GUILTY .
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE stated that Rosenberg had been previously convicted of a like offence, but that the fact was discovered too late to insert the charge in the indictment; a certificate of the conviction was put in by Scott, policeman, who identified, Rosenberg as the man to whom it referred.
ROSENBERG and REICHBERG— Eight Years' Penal Servitude, each.
WEBER— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. GIFFARD and MATTHEWS conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN PETHERBRIDGE . I am a butcher, carrying on business in Hastings-street, Judd-street—on Saturday evening, 1st March, I was in my first-floor room, and saw the prisoner and another person, opposite my shop, in conversation—the prisoner crossed over, apparently to my shop; and the person who was with him went a little way down the street and back again, and then looked anxiously across to my shop—I had suspicions, came down stairs into the parlour, and Miss King, who was taking money that night, had a note in her hand—I went into the shop; she opened the counting-house door, and said, "Will you give this man change for a 5l. note?"—I said, "Oh, no;" and the prisoner, who was there, put down half a shoulder of mutton, which he had purchased, on the counter, saying, "Never mind, I can get it changed"—I did not see him again that evening.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. By passing the shop.
HENRIETTA KING . I am assistant in Mr. Petherbridge's shop—the prisoner bought some mutton of one of the men, and came up to the desk with a 5l. note, and asked for a pen that he might write his address on the back of it—this is it (produced)—he wrote this, "Benjamin Cole, 20, Southampton-street, Russell-square"—I refused to give him change in consequence of what Mr. Petherbridge said, and he left the shop, saying that it did not matter—he did not take the meat, and I never saw him after.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you have the 5l. note in your hand? A. Yes,
for a minute or two—I did not ask him—he wrote his name on it—I did not know him before.
WILLIAM TITFORD . I am an undertaker, of 41, Judd-street—on Saturday evening, 1st March, about 10 o'clock, the prisoner came—I knew him by sight, but not his name—he asked me if I could change him a 5l. note—I said, "No; I am very busy; but if you take it to one of the shops opposite, they will give you change"—he left, and returned in three or four minutes afterwards, saying that the grocer would give him change if I would put my name on the back of it—I said, "I do not see why I should do that;" but afterwards I took the note out of his hand, and held it up to the gas; it was very thick, but I thought it had got so in his pocket—it was endorsed, "Benjamin Cole, 20, Southampton-street, Russell-square"—I read that out to him, and asked him if he had received the note of that person—be said, "Yes," and I endorsed it—he then left—this is it—Mr. Heffill brought it back to me on Monday evening, saying that it was forged—I then went to the prisoner's house in Brunswick-street, Judd-street—he had moved there since I knew him—I said, "That note you got me to endorse is a forgery; I suppose you know it?"—he said, well, he was sorry for that; he did not know it—I said, "You had better go with me to this person, Benjamin Cole"—I had got the note in my hand then, and read the address—he said that it was no use going there, for he wrote that himself—I said, "Is your name Cole?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "You do not live in Southampton-street, Rusell-square?"—he said, "No"—I asked him who lived there—he said a person who had given it to him to get change, told him to put down that address—I said, "You put down your own name and a false address, and brought it to me?"—he made no answer, and I said he had better come down to my shop—he said he had taken it to Mr. Smith's—I kept him at my shop, sent for a policeman, and gave him in custody—the policeman asked him who Mr. Smith was—he said he was a person who he knew some three years since—I asked him if he lived in Southampton-street—he said he did not know where he lived.
Cross-examined. Q. How long had you known him? A. Two or three Years—I buried the mother of Miss Wilson, who he is living with, and he was at the funeral—he is a shoemaker—his brother keeps a fried fish shop, or his brother-in-law—I have seen the person he lives with there—we have not been in the habit of drinking a glass of ale together.
FISHER HEFFILL . I am a grocer and post-master, of 44, Judd-street—on the evening of 31st March, the prisoner came and asked me if I would give Mr. Titford change for a five-pound note—I said, "Is Mr. Titford's name on it?"—he said, "No"—I said, "If you will get Mr. Titford's name upon it I will change it"—this is it—he went across to Mr. Titford, got it endorsed, and I changed it—I did not see him again till he was in custody—it was returned to me as forged on Monday evening, and I handed it over to Mr. Titford.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you compare it with any other notes? A. No; it was dirty, but be had it in his pocket—I came to the conclusion that it was good.
JOHN GASCOYNE (Policeman, E 10). I took the prisoner at Mr. Titford's house—he said he had got the note from a man named Smith, who asked him to get him change for it—he said, "I knew him some three years ago, but had not seen him for three years until the night I met him—I said, "Where does he live?"—he said, "At the address on the note; I put my name and his address on the note"—I asked him what Smith was—he said, "A bricklayer chap."
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know how many Southampton-streets there are in London? A. I do not.
COURT to WILLIAM TITFORD. Q. You say you have known the prisoner for two years? A. Yes—I buried his wife's mother—her name was Wilson—I never knew his name till I took the note back to his house—I found out the house because I have seen him in the shop—it is a fish shop, and the name of Wilson is over the door—I saw Miss Wilson, and said to her, Where is your husband?"—she called the prisoner out of the parlour, and he came into the shop—I never heard the name of Cole in connexion with him; only from what he said.
The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted at West-minster Sessions, in November, 1856; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. GIFFARD and MATTHEWS conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE HOPE . I am a portmanteau maker, of 5, Star-place, Somers'-town—the prisoner is my brother-in-law—he came to my place on Tuesday evening, 11th March, and after we had been sitting there some little while he said that he had a 5l. note, and asked me whether I could get it changed for him—I told him it was a thing I so seldom changed, never having changed but one, and that was at Mr. Meadows', and very likely he might give me change for it—I asked him where he had it from—he said from a man named Phillips, that he was in partnership with, in hawking jewellery—I went with him to Mr. Meadows, who is a publican, and asked him if he would change a 5l. note for my brother-in-law—he told me to ask at the bar if they had sufficient change—I did so, and they changed it, but before that my brother-in-law endorsed it—I believe this "D. Riardon" to be his endorsement—Mr. Meadows afterwards sent for me, and I sent for the prisoner—that was seven or eight days afterwards—I told him I had heard that there was something wrong respecting the note, and he must come with me to Mr. Meadows—I took him there—we were taken into the back parlour, and a policeman who was there questioned him as to how he became possessed of the note—he said that he got it from a man named Phillips—we were both given in charge.
JOHN MEADOWS . The endorsement upon this note was made by my sister-in-law's request—I saw it made—I paid it to my distillers, Tanqueray and Co., and received it back shortly afterwards, marked "Forged"—the prisoner and Hope came back together, and the prisoner said that he got it from a man in the country named Phillips, with whom he was partner in dealing in jewellery.
MISS FELLOWS. I gave change for this note—I wrote on it "Hope," the name I had known the first witness by for four years.
Meadows', and found the prisoner and the first witness—I asked the prisoner what explanation he could give of the 5l. note—he said that he had it from a man in the country, who he was formerly in partnership with in hawking, named Phillips—I asked him what he had it for—he said for a debt that was owing to him—I asked him if he could tell me where I could find Phillips—he said he could not; he had not seen him for two or three months—I took him in custody, and on the road to the station I said, "I believe you had this note from a man named Miller"—he said, "No, I did not: I do not know the man, and I do not know who you mean"—he was asked by the inspector on duty at the station, what explanation he could give of the note, and he gave the same explanation as he did to me about Phillips—when he was going to be locked up he called to me, and said, "You were right about that man; my brother-in-law does not know anything about it"—on the day after, when he was at Clerkenwell, he was asked by the Magistrate if he could give any explanation, but he need not do so unless he liked, because he might at a future time be committed for trial—he said that he had it from a man who he met in the street to get change, and he was to receive 25s. for his share: he did not know the man, or that he was a bad character, but had seen him before, and that that man was not Phillips, as he had formerly stated, and what he had said about Phillips was false.
Prisoner's Defence. I am a baker, and work in Tottenham-court-road. On 11th March I was round Burton-crescent, and a man, who I knew by sight, came up to me and said, "Do you know where I can change a 5l. note? I have had it given to me." I said, "I do not know, but perhaps my master will change it for you." I told him to meet me in the shop that night, and I asked my master to change it, who had not sufficient cash. I then thought of my brother-in-law, as being a respectable man. I asked him, and we went to Mr. Meadows, who changed it I brought out the money to the man, who gave me 25s. out. I am quite innocent of knowing it was forged.
He was further charged with having been convicted at this court in October, 1859; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, April 10th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. PHILLIPS; and Mr. COMMON
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY.**†— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. PHILIPPS conducted the Prosecution.
DANIEL DAVID (Policeman, H 169). On 28th November, about half-past 1 o'clock in the morning, or the middle of the night, I was on duty in High-street, Whitechapel, and saw the prisoner, and one named William Smith,
and two others whom I do not know—the prisoner had a basket with a little straw in it—I observed him and Smith go up to Mr. Crouch's window, 110, High-street, Whitechapel—the other two placed themselves apparently to watch for the police—I was watching—I placed myself in a dark doorway a hundred yards, I may say, from them—I saw the prisoner and Smith pull the bar out and slip the shutter on one side, smash a pane of glass, and pull out something white, which afterwards appeared to be calico, and several other articles—Smith gave them to Barrett, who placed them in the basket, which was standing in a doorway close by—that was the basket he was carrying—I then pulled the tails of my coat round me, put my hat under my arm, made a rush at them and secured Smith—the prisoner ran up Commercial-street—I then went back and found the calico in the basket, and several other articles—I found that the window had been broken—that house and shop are in the parish of Whitechapel—the place where the offence was committed was right under a lamp, so that I could see very plainly—I got up to the men before they retreated: in fact, I had Smith in custody before the men saw me—Barrett ran away, and I next saw him on 10th December, at the Thames Police-court—he was remanded till the 20th on a charge of haying a quantity of clothes in his possession—he was sentenced on 20th December, to two months' imprisonment—I had no doubt what ever, when I saw him, that he was the man I had seen at Mr. Crouch's—I was certain of him—when he was discharged I took him into custody on this charge of burglary—I gave the calico up in December last when that sentence was passed.
Prisoner. Q. How could you see me? A. You were right under a gaslamp, and I passed you once before when you were standing at the corner, close to you—I believe you had on a black coat—I would not swear it was the one you have now—I do not think it was, because it was a single-breasted one—it was not buttoned up—I noticed your face particularly, not your clothes—I passed within a yard of you on one occasion—I will be on my oath that it was on the 10th that I recognised you—Mr. Deeble did not tell me that you were coming up to the court—I saw you there by accident—I did not know you were there till you were brought up, and I told the Magistrate there and then that I wanted you on another charge—I should have taken you before if I had seen you—I told you I ascertained where the things were sold, but that was since you were in—I did not tell the Magistrate that at Arbour-square.
RICHARD CROUCH . I am a draper, living at 110, High-street, Whitechapel—on the morning of 28th November, the police called me up about half-past 1 o'clock—I went to the station and found a man, named Smith, in the custody of a policeman—another officer came there subsequently—I lost a considerable quantity of goods from the window, but the calico was the principal—they had been safe the night before—the place was all properly secured when I went to bed the night before at 11 o'clock—I saw the property that the policeman produced, and identified it—my house is in the parish of St. Mary, Whitechapel—the property was produced at the trial, and I swore to its identity.
Prisoner. Q. Did the policeman say he recognised any of the others? A. Yes; he said he knew most of them, but being by himself he waited in ambush till they had effected something, and then he pursued one of them and the others escaped.
Prisoner. It is all false what he has said.
He was further charged with having been convicted at Clerkenwell in October, 1855, of felony; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, April 10th, 1862.
PRESENT.—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and Mr. Ald. BESLEY.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
THOMAS WALLACE ALLEN . I am a plumber and painter, carrying on business at 123, Pennington-street, St Georges-street—the prisoner was formerly in my employ—to the best of my knowledge he left at the latter part of March, or the beginning of April, in last year—I deal with Mr. Burrell—I have occasionally sent the prisoner there for goods—I never sent him with any book containing orders for goods—I used to send the orders on bits of paper (looking at five receipts produced)—I never authorised the prisoner, or any other person, to obtain those goods for me—he was not at work for me during this time, and I never saw him till I saw him at the police-court, after he had been discharged by me—I believe this is the prisoner's handwriting.
Prisoner. Q. How long had I been in your service? A. Altogether about four months—you had been at two or three different times—you came on the 7th of January, but you were there before that.
COURT. Q. Had he not been in your employment since March or April of last year. A. No.
Prisoner. I only came to England on the 4th; I was never in his employment before 7th March.
ALFRED EWEN BURRELL . I am an oil and colour manufacturer, carrying on business in the Minories—on 22d April, the prisoner came to me with one of these receipts; he stated be came from Mr. Allen, and I supplied him with seven brushes and 56 lbs. of white lead—my clerk took the receipt from him—I was standing by—it is signed in the name of "Cook, for Mr. Allen."
Prisoner. Have you got any orders from a book? A. No; the only orders we have are little slips of paper—if you brought a book you took it away with you again; my clerk ought to have kept the book if you brought one—that was our error.
WILLIAM SAVAGE . I am in the employment of Mr. Burrell—on 25th April last, the prisoner brought an order to me, and I supplied him with the goods—this is the receipt that he gave me—it is for 56 lbs. of best white lead—he came again on the 29th for six brushes, and gave me this receipt—he came again on the 22d May, for 112 lbs, of best white lead, and gave me this receipt—they are all of them signed for Mr. Allen—he signed them all in my presence—I signed them, thinking they came from Mr. Allen—he brought paper at first, and then he brought a book—he said Mr.
Allen had no paper and he had bought him a small book—the goods were delivered up by that book, he giving a receipt for the goods.
COURT. Q. How did he take away the 112 lbs. of lead? A. He came for it before 8 o'clock in the morning, and said he had got a ship he was going to take it to in St. Katherine's Dock, which is close by—I said, "You can't carry 112 lbs. of lead"—he said, "Yes, I can "—I said, "Come twice for it"—he said, "If you do it up I will take it"—I put it on his shoulder, and he took it away—it was an immense weight for him to carry.
Prisoner's Defence. I have only to say that I never robbed my master at all; always what I fetched there I brought him. I have not been four months in England; I only came over to England on, 4th January.
Mr. Allen stated that the prisoner had behaved himself very well, and worked hard while with him, and that after he left he was in distress.
Confined Six Months.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS ATKINSON . I am a currier, at 86, Marlborough-street, Cavendish square—at a quarter to 1 on the morning of 23d March, I was about entering my door—whilst putting the key in the prisoners came up to me—I am quite certain they are the men—they asked me the way to Wells-street—as I was turning round Sheehan seized me by the throat, and robbed me of my watch, chain, and breast-pin—I was rendered powerless—both came up to me; Sheehan seized me, and the other was behind me—I was thrown down, and the prisoners ran off down Wells-street—I had such an opportunity of seeing them as to know them—there was a gas-lamp there—Sheehan asked me the way to Wells-street—I could see the faces of both men—I ran after them, calling "Polics," and saw a policeman going after them—the two men were running together—the policeman followed the two men that I had been following; that I am quite sure of—I lost my watch, chain, and a gold pin—their value was about 4l.—the next morning my housekeeper found the end of the chain on the step—this was about a quarter before 1 on the Sunday morning, and the same day I saw Sheehan at the station-house—he was with other men, and I at once picked him out—I saw Laugham the week following at the station; he was amongst others of the same size and appearance as himself—I at once picked him out.
Langham. Q. Did Sheehan speak to you, or did I? A. Sheehan—I had not time to answer him—I was putting the key in the door, the key dropped, and he seized me before I could answer him a word—I had a better look at Sheehan than I had at you—you had whiskers on on the night in question, and a dark coat—I cannot say which of you took my watch—I saw you in company with Sheehan when he took me by the throat—I saw a constable running after you down Berwick-street—I went along ten minutes afterwards, and saw Gordon and told him what had happened—I am quite certain you are the man, although your whiskers are off.
WILLIAM GORDON (Policeman, A 336). A little before 1 on the morning of 23d March, I was going along Oxford-street—I saw the two prisoners run out of Wells-street, across Oxford-street—I fancied there was something wrong, and followed them—they turned down Portland-street, into Great Chapel-street, where I ran against a post, and fell—I was senseless on the
ground, and when I got up they had gone out of sight—I afterwards apprehended Sheehan at a public-house in the Five Dials—I told him I should take him in custody for stealing a watch, chain, and scarf-pin, from a gentleman at a little before 1 on that morning—he said, "I was at home; I know nothing about it"—I asked him where he lived—he said, "In Donovan's lodging-house, Queen-street, Seven Dials"—I asked him if he was known there—he said, "Yes; the landlady knows me"—I went there and asked for the landlady; some one came forward as the landlady of the house.
Sheehan. Q. Did you run in front of us or behind us? A. You ran round a large lamp-post—I was running after you—I was about ten yards from you when I ran up against the post—it was a side corner post I ran against.
Langham. Q. Are you sure you saw me on the night in question? A. I am certain both of you are the men—I did not see you at the lodging-house I went to, in Queen-street—I went there the same night—there ware a number of persons there—you were not the man who spoke to me at that house—you were not sitting by the tide of the fire—there was another constable with me—there were three persons sitting by the fire—I am sure you were not one of the persons there—I asked who was the landlord of the house—I was not answered by you; I was answered by a lady, calling herself Mrs. Donovan—I asked her if she kept a book with the names of persons who lodged in the house at night—she said, "No;" and I asked her then how she knew who the lodgers were, and what time they came in—I then asked her if a person, named Sheehan, was living there, and she told me she did not know him by that name—I then asked her what time, to the best of her knowledge, the last of her lodgers was in on the night previous—she said they were usually in at 12 o'clock—I then asked her if Sheehan was in, and she said she did not know him—I told her I would call again that same night—I did not do so.
BARNARD STANLEY (Police-sergeant, E 3). When the prisoners were taken into custody, and brought to the station, they were placed with seven others—they were directed to stand where they liked—they were mixed together—the prosecutor saw them, and at once picked them out—he pointed his finger like that—I said, "Go and lay your hand on them," and he did—I asked him if he was quite satisfied, and he said, "Yes."
Sheehan. Four of them were boys, and one was a potman from a public-house.
WILLIAM ACKRILL (Police-sergeant, F 48). I took Langham into custody on 29th March—before that the constable Gordon had described him to me—I told him I should take him for robbing a man of his watch, chain, and breast-pin, in company witn Sheehan—he said he knew nothing about the robbery, and he did not know Sheehan—when I got him to the station he was placed with seven or eight grown-up persons, dressed very much like him—I saw the prosecutor come in—he picked him out directly—I knew Langham before, as being about "the Dials"—when I last saw him he had whiskers on, a pilot coat, and a hat; a totally different kind of dress to what he had afterwards.
COURT to WILLIAM GORDON. Q. Did you know either of the prisoners by sight previously? A. Both—I gave a description to Ackrill, and also at the police-station—I was disabled myself—I was knocked down by the post, and was obliged to lay there three or four minutes—I was on duty on the Monday evening afterwards—I was in search of the prisoners in the morning at the Dials, but could not see them—I described them to the others on
the same night, and I was looking after them myself—I did not know where Langham lived—I had known him about three months—I have known the other prisoner five or six years.
Sheehan's Defence. On the night of the robbery I was at home, and in bed by twenty minutes past 12.
Langham's Defence. I was at home in bed by 11 o'clock on the night of the robbery. They did not go and see whether I gave a right address, and whether I was at home in bed at the time I state. The prosescutor states that Sheehan was the man who had hold of him. I appeal to anybody in this Court whether the prosecutor could state, on his oath, if he saw a man with whiskers on that night, in a dark suit of clothes; and saw him again eight days afterwards without whiskers, and dressed differently; that he was the same man. He says he can speak to Sheehan better than to me. I saw the constable Gordon on Sunday night, afterwards: I was the man who spoke to him when he came in. I know every word he said to the landlady. I remained there that night until 12 o'clock. I saw him on the 27th, standing in plain clothes, in Seven Dials, and passed him within three yards. It is evident, if I was the man he intended to capture for this robbery, he would have taken me then. I was not the person. It is because, perhaps, I bear rather an indifferent character, I am selected as the victim of this case. I think Mrs. Donovan is here to prove that I was in bed.
Langham was further charged with having been before convicted on 7th January, 1855, at Westminster Sessions; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**†— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
SHEEHAN**†— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
ANNE MARIA BASTOW . I am the wife of William Bastow—on Saturday night last, about half-past 9 in the evening, I was in Newgate-market—I felt the prisoner's hand in my pocket, lost my purse, and saw him running away—I called out, "Stop him!"—before I could get through the crowd a butcher and the female witness stopped him—this is my purse (produced)—here is a piece of paper in it with a direction bv which I know it; that was in the purse at the time; and there was a half-crown.
ANN BECKLEY . I am the wife of Joseph Beckley, of 10, Castle-court, Lower Whitecross-street—I was in Newgate-market on Saturday night last, heard a cry of "Stop, thief!" and saw the prisoner running away—I stopped him, and a butcher came and caught hold of him on the other side—I had hold of him on the right side by the collar—I saw the purse in his hand, and he threw it down—I saw another butcher pick it up—he gave it to the prosecutrix.
He was further charged with having been before convicted of felony at Westminster Sessions, on 10h September, 1860, when he was sentenced to eighteen months; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. METCALFE, for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
MICHAEL O'BRIEN . I am a tailor, living at Ely-court, Holborn—on Saturday night, 22d March, I think, I was coming along the Minories—I saw the prisoner, another man, and a woman together—as I was passing by them, the two men gave me a severe shove on the side—I turned round and asked them what they did it for—I was walking quite steadily—they gave me a shoulder with their arms—the other man was nearest to me, not the prisoner—they struck me one after the other—the other man struck me first—the prisoner first struck me with his arm, and immediately afterwards I moved from them; and he up with a stick, and before I knew where I was, I was struck with a stick, which broke in two halves—they went along, and in going along I met a policeman, and said something to him—they went along jeering and laughing as if they had gained a victory over me—I met them again at the corner of Aldgate, and they several times threatened me then—they said they would give it to me when I got down to Houndsditch—I said that was on my way home; so when I went down there the prisoner struck me with the stick again—that was near Fireball-court, in Houndsditch—there were two young chaps standing by, and in self-defence I struck the prisoner, and he struck me back—I gave the two young lads my hat and the bundle—the prisoner struck me with the stick, and then I hit him in selfdefence—as we were fighting in the street, he gave me one stab here in the side of the head—I did not fall—he was standing and so was I—we were tangled together, and he stabbed me in the side of the head—when I felt the first stab, I got him down underneath me, and he had not the full power of his hand—I could not get away from him—I saw a penknife in his hand—I cannot say how often he struck me with it—he repeated it several times—he gave me one stab before we got on the ground, and he followed up the stabbing directly afterwards—when I got up I ran off as quick as I could, for medical aid—I went to two or three shops, and they would not dress the wound—I was bleeding frightfully; my clothes were all covered with blood—I went to the London Hospital at last.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did not you get him down, and was he not under you? A. After the first stab he was beneath me—I was not kneeling on him—I was lying upon him—this was opposite the court—we did not go into the court—I knew the two lads I spoke of—I had often seen them; but had no acquaintance with them—I knew them by sight—at that time I determined to have a fight with him for the injury they had done to me—when I first came up, there was a lady with them—I did not shove against the lady—I did not hear her call out at all—she did not call out, "Oh!" very loud, and say I had pushed against her—I did not hear her say so—the prisoner did not say I was very rude to push against the lady in that way—the lady was on one side, and the two men on the other—I was outside them—I did not call them names; I know myself a little better than to do so—I used no inferior language—I suppose drink was the cause of my being struck by the two men—I tried to get out of their way—I still continued going on—it was on my way home—I want about half a mile, from the time I was first struck, till I got to the court—I kept on being abused by them, and never saying or doing anything—there was nobody to defend me—I saw no pipe in the prisoner's mouth—I am quite sure of that—I saw the blade of the penknife, and the handle in his hand—I will undertake to say decidedly that it was not a pipe with a metal end to it—I say that it was a knife—there is
a reasonable lot of light in the court—I saw the knife when he first stabbed me—I do not know anything about his being taken: I was told about it at the London Hospital.
MR. LLOYD. Q. How far behind them were you walking when you went from the place you first met them, to where this struggle took place? A. A few yards—when I got to the court the prisoner made an attack on me.
GEORGE CUNNINGHAM . I am a cooper, and live at 4, Fireball-court, Houndsditch—on 22d March last, I was coming down Houndsditch and saw O'Brien and the prisoner quarrelling for about ten minutes, I should say—they got fighting and struggling together and fell on the opposite side of Houndsditch, opposite Fireball-court, just underneath a lamp—I saw the prisoner raise his right arm and strike him repeatedly—O'Brien then got up and stood about four yards from the prisoner, and said, "He has got a knife; he has stabbed me"—he was covered with blood—the prisoner then got up and walked over towards Fireball-court side, and went along up Houndsditch, and went away—O'Brien ran just before he got to Fireball-court, to get assistance—I saw the prisoner taken up past St. Mary-axe, about forty or fifty yards from there—I was following him and saw him taken—I did not see a stick used of any kind.
Cross-examined. Q. You looked about for a knife when you heard this, did you not? A. Yes; none was found—I do not remember seeing anything of a pipe—I did not hear O'Brien calling the prisoner names—there was a young woman with them—there were no strong expressions used—the prisoner said, that if he came home to his house to would fight him—O'Brien gave his hat and bundle to a young chap named Jeremiah Dennis, who was there—he gave it as the prisoner attacked him—he wanted to defend himself—they did not fight for two or three minutes after that—O'Brien got him down, he was lying on the top of him, not kneeling—when the prisoner said to O'Brien, "Come to my house and I will fight you," O'Brien did not push him in the cheek, not for three minutes after that—the prisoner made a strike at O'Brien, and they fought and fell in Fireball-court—I heard O'Brien say first, "What did you strike me for?"—and the prisoner then said, "Come to my house and I will fight you."
MART ANN CURTAIN . I live at 8, Fireball-court, Houndsditch—on the night of Saturday, 22d March, I was coming on an errand in Fireball-court—I saw the prisoner and O'Brien struggling on the ground—it lasted about a quarter of an hour or ten minutes—I did not see any blow struck—when O'Brien got up, the prisoner came over to a woman who was with him and handed her a knife—I do not know what sort of knife it was—O'Brien was bleeding very much—I am sure it was a knife, I only saw the blade of it—I saw the prisoner taken up by two policemen at St. Mary-axe.
Cross-examined. Q. You are sure it was a knife because you saw the blade of it? A. Yes; I cannot tell you what sort of a knife it was—I saw something glitter; it was the blade of a knife; I did not see anything more than the glitter of some metal—that was about ten minutes before the policeman came—the young lady and the other man went away, and the prisoner remained until the policeman came—he did not know the policeman was coming—O'Brien went for a policeman—the prisoner waited there ten minutes, till he got as for as St. Mary-axe—I did not say anything to the policeman when he came up about the knife; not till the next morning—a sergeant came the next morning—I was there when the policeman came up.
MR. LLOYD. Q. Have you any doubt as to whether it was a pipe or a knife? A. It was like the blade of a knife.
GEORGE SIMMONS (City-policeman, 623). On 22d March, I took the prisoner into custody—I told him he was charged with stabbing a man—he said, "I am all right, Sir; I live up St. Mary-axe"—I observed some blood on the right wristband of hia shirt—I picked up this stick (produced) in Houndsditch—it broke in the Minories.
Cross-examined. Q. You looked carefully for a knife and found none? A. Yes.
THOMAS NEWBY . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—on Sunday, 23d March, the prosecutor was brought there, after 12 o'clock at night; he was bleeding very much from the head—I found seven punctured wounds in the scalp; they went through the scalp; they were not quite a quarter of an inch deep; they were inflicted by a sharp pointed instrument; a penknife would do it—he has been out of the hospital for some time; he its discharged, cured—they were not serious wounds.
Cross-examined. Q. Would not you expect, if they were done with a penknife, they would have gone in deeper? A. It would depend on the severity of the blow—I should expect to find small punctured wounds; the bone would prevent it going in deep; unless the penknife was very strong, it would break against the bone—I have seen pipes with metal at the end—I should scarcely think that a metal pipe which had been in use some time and had got worn at the end would inflict those wounds; it might do so; I would not swear that it could not; if it were worn it might.
COURT. Q. Have you ever seen such a pipe that would inflict such wounds as those? A. No.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:)
"I was in the Minories on Saturday evening; I had been to a concert room and was returning home with my friend and his lady. The prosecutor shoved the lady by the arm, and I said, 'You should not shove the lady.' I knocked him about with a stick; he went back and then approached again, and wanted to have some words with us. We told him it would be better for him to retire; I said, 'I do not intend to fight here, but come to my house and I will fight.' He then pushed me on the cheek with such violence that I fell. I had a German wooden pipe in my hand, and struck him with it; I cannot tell how, as I had drunk well. I cannot say what further occurred till I was taken into custody. I can state that I never had a knife in any pocket.
Witness for the Defence.
JOHN BECK . I was a waiter at Ricart's Restaurant, in Bucklersbury—I am now out of employment—I have known the prisoner about eight or nine months—he is a waiter at Mr. Kraus's Hotel, in Lime-street, and has been there about two years—on Saturday, 22d March, I had been to a concert with Miss Viney and the prisoner; we were coming from there about 11 o'clock—I was smoking—we saw the prosecutor; he came and pushed Miss Emma—she called out, "Oh"—I asked what was the matter—she said the man had pushed her—I said it was very rude to push a lady—he was laughing; I could not understand what he said—I took him by the left arm and said he must go, and he gave me a knock on my forehead—he was laughing, and coming against me three or four times, the prisoner gave him a knock with a stick on the head, and the stick was broken—that was the stick which has been produced—while we were walking on to Houndsditch, he was sometimes behind us and sometimes before us, grumbling—when we came to public-house he asked me for my card to fight me the next morning
—I said I would not give him a card; I would not fight any more—then we came to some court; two boys were steading there, and the boys received the coats, and he was crying out, "Now I will fight you"—he have his bundle to the boys, and I gave my hat to Miss Emma—he then knocked the prisoner down, and they were afterwards on the pavement rolling over and over together to the other side of the pavement—the prosecutor was kneeling on him, and the prisoner knocked him in the face; they knocked each other—I cannot say any more—the prisoner had a pipe—I saw him smoking it in the concert room; it was a German pipe with a metal piece for the mouth; it came np to a point—I am quite sure he had that pipe, with him that evening in the concert room—in Aldgate-street he asked me for some fire, and I saw him light the pipe—I saw no knife with him at all—I cannot say whether, when they were down, he struck with anything at the prosecutor—Miss Emma took me away; she did not receive a knife from the prisoner, I am quite sure.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Have you brought the pipe here? A. No—when I first saw the prisoner he was coming the same way as we were—he was going past us when he pushed Miss Emma—he went on the right side—he did not push me at all; only her—I did not feel the push—he pushed me afterwards—the prisoner it not in employment now as a waiter—he was at that time—I did not see any policeman at all before we got to the court—I had no reason to call for a policeman while we were going along, and he coming after us—the prisoner broke a stick on his head.
COURT. Q. Had you been drinking at all? A. I had two glasses of brandy with water and sugar, with Miss Emma—the prisoner had about five glasses whilst I was with him—I do not know how many he had before—he was in the conoert room before us, and we came away together.
MR. METCALFE. Q. How long were you there? A. From 9 o'clock till 12.
EMMA VINEY . I live at No. 9 St. Mary-axe, and am employed at Taylor Brothers, Brick-lane, chocolate manufacturers—I have been there two years and nine months—I had been out with these two young men on 22d March to a concert—upon our return I saw the prosecutor coming up the Minories—he walked aside of me and pushed me, and I exclaimed, "Oh"—Mr. Beek asked what was the matter, and I said, "The gentleman pushed me—he said it was very wrong to push a lady in that manner—the prosecutor laughed, and Mr. Beck asked him to get away—he would not, and he took him by the arm and pushed him, and the prisoner hit him on the head with a stick—O'Brien was walking along jeering us at that time—he was walking alongside of me—we got some distance up the Minories and we were again joined by him, and he followed us down Houndsditch—he there gave some boys his bundle and made a blow at the prisoner—while we were walking along he was talking and laughing, and jeering at us—he struck the prisoner and he returned the blow—they were some minutes struggling on the ground—the prosecutor was on the top, and the prisoner lying upon his back—I then took Mr. Beck away—I did not see a pipe at any time—I do not remember seeing one during the evening—the prisoner did not give me a knife—I am quite sure of that—I did not see a knife in his possession at all—he did not give me anything at the time they were struggling in the court, or at all that eveing.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you holding Beck's arm all the time this struggle was going on? A. Yes—there were not many people there; I think about a dozen—I did not notice any women about—I was standing close by the struggle for a moment, and then I moved off, and went with Mr. Beck as far as St. Mary-axe, bade him good night, and went home—I am a friend of
Mr. Beck's—the struggle was not over when I went away—I did not see the letter part of it—the prisoner did not give me a knife.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was there any other young woman there at all? A. No.
COURT to MARY ANN CURTAIN. Q. Should you know the person again to whom the prisoner gave the knife? A. No, it was a young woman; I do not know who.
FREDERICK BAYR . I am waiter at the Ship and Star Hotel, where this concert was, on Saturday, 22d March—I remember the prisoner being there, and the young lady—the prisoner had a short pipe with him—I cannot say what sort of mouthpiece—it was a short German pipe.
CHARLES KRAUS . I am the landlord of the Cape of Good Hope public-house, Lime-street—the prisoner was in my employment as a waiter for two years, up to the last day he was taken in custody—he has always been very quiet during that time—he never keeps a knife in his pocket—I have asked bun for a knife, and he had not had one—nobody smokes in the houses-all the Germans keep pipes, but he never had one in the house to my knowledge—Mrs. Kraus brought some pipes over with her from Germany for her cook and her other servants—I always found the prisoner a very quiet, orderly, respectable man.
The prisoner receivd a good character from three other witnesses.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Six Months
MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES DAYIES . I am a manufacturer of hair nets and crinoline, at 15, Finsbury-pavement, under the firm of Coldrey and Davies—I knew the prisoner four or five years in the employment of Messrs. Nathan and Sons—be came to me on 22d March, about 12 o'clock, I think, and said he wanted two dozen crinoline skirts for John Nathan and Sons, for a foreign order—I give them to him—I should not have given them to him except from the observation that they were for Nathan and Sons—the value of them was 5l.—I saw the prisoner write this receipt (Read: "March 22d, 1862. Received from Messrs. Coldrey and Davies, 43 crinoline skirts, at 43s., J. OLIVER")—the prisoner came again on 26th March, and said he wanted four dozen skirts for John Nathan and Sons—the value of them was the same as the others—he gave me this receipt "Received of Messrs. Coldrey and Co., for Nathan and Son, four dozen skirts"—I should not have parted with the foods bat for the supposition that they were for John Nathan and Co—I subsequently called on them to pay—that is how I found it out.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Not for all of them? A. No—the prisoner brought back two dozen—those he had on the 26th he brought back on the 31st.
JOHN NATHAN . I am a wholesale clothier, carrying on business in Houndsditch, in partnership with my son—I never authorized the prisoner to obtain these goods from Messrs. Coldrey and Davies—he was formerly in our employment—he was not in our employment on 22d or 24th March—he left between a fortnight and three weeks before.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you sent any goods to Mr. Davies? A. These goods originally, I believe, came from us—they were sold to them I believe—we had sent them to Davice bona fide to the prisoner's order—we sent them an invoice—these goods were ordered by the prisoner, we presuming that he had sold them to Messrs. Coldrey and Davice—he was employed as
our traveller—they were not sent on approval—Mr. Davies ought to have the invoice of it—this is it (produced)—these are the identical skirts, as far as I can judge—I have never seen them—I heard Mr. Davies say that those were not sold, but left on approval—I heard him say so on a former occasion—they were taken to the place by our porter with this invoice and left there—that was on 21st February—we have got part of the money now—we asked for it—we sent our collecting clerk to collect the moneys, which is usual at the expiration of the time, giving them notice first that he would call—when he called, Mr. Davies said that he should have to come down for the things, because there was some misunderstanding—he came down to us and represented that the prisoner had obtained from him some portion of the goods—he said they were left on approval; we repudiated that—I had never heard of it before.
MR. KEMP. Q. Did the prisoner bring them back to you? A. No—he did not receive the commisson on the sale—we should not give a commission until we received the money.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there some Agreement in writing? A. There was a memorandum written—the prisoner had the memorandum; we had none—I have never seen one in my father's possession.
CHARLES BAKER . I am a detective city officer—about half-past 11, on 2d April, I saw the prisoner in Chespside, told him I was a detective police-officer, and asked him whether his name was Oliver—he said, "Yes"—I said that he must consider himself in custody for receiving a quantity of crinoline skirts from Davies and Co. of Finsbury-pavement—he said he had had the skirts from there, and sold them to Mr. Underwood, 13, Commercial-road, Peckham—I told him he must come to the station—he gave me an address 32, Monkwell-street; he had been living there—I went to No. 13, Commercial-road—I could not find any such person as Mr. Underwood—I then made inquiries close by Finsbury, and found the skirts had been pawned.
JAMES HAYNES . I am assistant to Mr. Russell, pawnbroker, of Fore-street—I produce two dosen crinoline skirts, which I took in on 22d March, I cannot say of whom; the address is 38, Monk well-street—on 23d March, I took four dosen crinoline skirts, in the name of John Brown, of 34, Monkwell-street—I do not know who pawned them—on 26th March, I took two dozen from the prisoner in the name of John Brown, for 1l. 4s.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Were these skirts that you gave up to the prisoner your goods? A. They were in my possession—the prisoner represented that they were given to me on consignment—they were left by him on approval, and I afterwards refused to take them because the price was too high—I said I would go down and see Mr. Nathan—I believed the prisoner was taking them back to Mr. Nathan when I let them go—he said he wanted them for a foreign order, to sell to some one else—they were brought to me on 21st February, the date of the invoice—it was two days afterwards, I think, that I told him I could not take them at the price—he said he would endeavour to make an arrangement to take less—he said that I might send back what I did not want—I do not know that he said he would try to sell them elsewhere.
MR. KEMP. Q. When you told the prisoner you could not take at at the price, did you subsequently see Mr. Nathan? A. Afterwards; not before the goods were fetched.
MR. METCALFE submitted that the evidence did not make out the case at all, as the goods belonged to Messrs. Nathan, and were obtained by false pretences from them. The COURT considered that they were obtained by false pretences from Messrs. Davies as well at from Messrs. Nathan.
GUILTY .—The officer Baker stated that he had ascertained that the prisoner bore a very good character indeed.
Confined Six Months.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM MORRIS . I live at 26, Upper Park-place, Marylebone—on Friday morning, the 14th of last month, I went into the Leaping Bar public-house in Old Street-road—I there saw the two prisoners with another man—I had a glass of porter—the men asked me to give them some tobacco; I offered them some out of this pocket, and they said they wanted some out of this; there was a screw in one and half an ounce in the other, and they wanted it from the one with the half-ounce—I then went out; they followed me out, touched me on the shoulder and asked me if I was going to give them some tobacco—Fiunity that put his arm round my waist—I threw my arms up, and then Lane caught hold of me; they threw open my waistcoats and coat—I had two waiftooats on at the time—they opened ny pockets and took out a half a crown, a two-shilling piece, two shillings, and three six-pences, a knife, and a key; one sixpence was left in my pocket—they then let me fall backwards, and my hat fell off, and I caught my head against the kerbstone, and I fell on this arm, which was very bad for two or three weeks—they then ran away—I endeavoured to catch them, but could not see them—I went back to the public-house and stated that I had been robbed, and then I went to the station-house and gave information—I there described the three men to a constable—I was taken to the police-station soon afterwards, on the same morning, and there saw Lane—on the Sunday night I saw Finnity—I was quite sober on the night I was robbed.
Lane. Q. What time do you say I was in Mr. Short's public-house? A. Perhaps a quarter past 1—I was not drunk—there were several people in the public-house—you drank up part of my pint of beer, and I would not lake any more—there were some females there; I knew nothing about them—you followed me out directly—you put your hand in my pocket—Finnity put one arm round my neck.
Firnity. Q. Did I speak to you when we were in the public-house? A. Yes; you asked me for some tobaooo—I offered you a small piece, and you would not take it.
COURT. Q. Your say you saw Lane on the Friday evening at the station-house; was he alone or with others? A. Several others; I picked him out—he was not pointed out to me in any way; there were also three or four perons with Finnity.
JAMES SHORT . I keep the Leaping Bar public-house in Old-street, St. Luke's—I remember the prosecutor being in my house about I in the morning of 14th March—the prisoners were also there; they were there nigh upon I—the prosecutor came back after he left.
COURT. Q. How long before he came back and complained to you was it that he prisoners had been there? A. More than half an hour; perhaps longer than that—I was talking to two friends at the bar.
Lane. Q. Was I in at the time the proscutor was? A. I cannot
swear whether you were or not—I was asking them all to go out, and all went out about the same time—my wife was at the bar at the time serving—I saw the prosecutor when he came back; he seemed very much excited—I do not know whether he was intoxicated or not—he said he had been robbed.
MR. HORRY. Q. Had you known these prisoners before? A. No; I have see Finnity somewhere about, once or twice.
JAMES PLAYFORD (Policeman, A 438). On the night of 14th March, or Friday morning, rather, I was on duty at the Old-street station—the prosecutor came there about twenty-five minutes past 1, and made a complaint to the inspector that he had been robbed—he described the persons to the inspector in my presence—at that time he was perfectly sober.
WILLIAM MILLER (Policeman, G 148). About 1 o'clock on Saturday morning, from information I received, I took Lane into custody—I said to him. "I apprehend you for committing a highway robbery in Old-start, outside the Leaping Bar"—he said, "Let me go"—I said, "I shall not"—he said, "So help me God, it was not me."
COURT. Q. You were not present when the prosecutor made his complaint? A. No; I was sent from the station—I was present when the prosecutor was brought, after I had taken Lane—there were three persons present—he was picked out as the one out of four.
Lane. Q. Where did you take me? A. At the Grapes—the prosecutor was not there at that time—I did not point you out to the prosecutor at the station-house—he was fetched by Boobyer after you were at the station.
JOHN BOOBYER . I took Finnity into custody on Sunday night, 16th—I told him I took him on suspicion of being concerned, with another, in custody, for violently assaulting a man in Old-street, and robbing him—he said, "Well, it was not much of a robbery; besides, I was not in Old-street at all that night."
Finnity. Q. Where did you take me? A. At Vine-street—I believe you have a sister living there—the other policeman did not take you first.
COURT. Q. Did you fetch the prosecutor after Lane was in custody? A. I did—I was present when the prosecutor identified Finnity—there were two with-him besides himself.
Lane's Defence. All I have to say is that I was not in the house at the time. I was at the station-house by myself when the prosecutor came to identify me. He was there before, waiting for me. I have been bad, but I am innocent of the charge brought against me now.
Finnity's Defence. I work hard for my living; yon can ask any of those policemen.
Policeman G 211 stated that he had known Finnity eight or nine years ago associating with pickpockets, but that he had been at work latterly.
GUILTY without violence.
FINNITY.**— Confined Twelve Months.
Lane was further charged with having been before convicted of felony on 1st August, 1859, when he was sentenced to Three Year's Penal Servitude; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Five Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. TAILOR conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY SKASE . I am a labourer, and work for Mr. John White, of Enfieldchase—on the evening of Monday, 17th March, I saw my sheep and lambs—the lamb I now produce was then safe—I missed it on Tuesday morning,
about quarter past 6—in consequence of something that was said I want to Mr. Robinson, about 9 o'clock, and there found the lamb—I knew it at once—I am sure it is the same—I took it home to the ewe—she knew it directly.
EDWARD ROBINSON . I am a gardener, at Chase-side, Enfield, not far from Mr. White's—on Sunday, 16th Match, I saw the prisoner—I had occasion to call at Mr. White's about a lamb—I was promised one—the lad came to me and said, "Mr. Robinson, do you want a lamb? if you do, you may have one for a shilling"—I said, "If you will bring it down I will have it"—he brought it down on the Tuesday, and I gave him a shilling for Mr. White and a penny for himself—he then said Mr. White had another that I could have for a shilling—after breakfast I went up to Mr. White to inquire about the other lamb—I afterwards saw Skase, and he went back with me to fetch the first lamb—Mr. White gave me a shilling back.
SIDNEY SNOWELL (Polieman, N 513). I apprehended the prisoner on 29th March, and told him that he was charged with stealing a lamb—he said that he did steal it, and that Mr. Robinson told him if he got him a lamb he would give him a shilling for it; he said he took the lamb to Mr. Robinson—he gave him a shilling for Mr. White and a penny for himself.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Three Years in a Reformatory.
OLD COURT.—Friday, April 11th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. JUSTICE MELLOR; Mr. Ald. ALLEN; Mr. Ald. JAMES
LAWRENCE; Mr. Ald. GIBBONS; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Justice Mellor.
MR. SHARPE conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE BIGGS . I am ostler at the Milford Arms, Spring-grove, Heston—on 24th March, the prisoner and prosecutor were there, in the room where the bagatelle table is—it was between 1 and 2 in the day—I and Hilton, Martin, Wilson, the prisoner, and two or three others, were all playing bagatelle, until a dispute arose about the payment of some beer, which was settled without any violence—the dispute was amongst all that were in the room—we went on playing and joking—the prisoner and Hilton played a game single-handed—Hilton won, and the prisoner refused to pay—they played for a pint of beer—the prisoner called Hilton bad names—that passed off with joking, no blows—Hilton was joking the prisoner, and he took offence at it and threatened to pull his moustache off—after some time the prisoner vent away—he returned in about 10 minutes—Martin and Hilton played a game—the prisoner bet threepence that Martin would win—Hilton won, and then the prisoner refused to pay; they called each other bad names until the prisoner struck Hilton in the face with his fist—Hilton instantly returned it—they had a scramble in the parlour and both fell, Hilton at the bottom, and the prisoner kept hitting him when he was down—I took bold
of Hilton and Wilson took hold of the prisoner, and we ported them; there was blood drawn on both sides in the parlour—the prisoner went out of the bar and asked for his cap—Hilton said he had not got his cap, but if he would come outside he would give him a good hiding, or he should him—they went outside and Hilton began fighting first, before the prisoner was hardly outside; they had hold of each other; it lasted about two minutes—the prisoner walked away; he muttered something—I do not know what he said—I did not see him again until he was taken into custody—I did not see him doing anything to Hilton mote than striking him—immediately after the prisoner had gone away I saw blood running down Hilton's jacket, behind, from his head—Wilson and Martin went with him to the surgeon's.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. What hour was it that the prisoner was first there? A. I should say between 1 and 2—Hilton was there when the prisoner was first there—the prisoner continued there from between 1 and 2 until past 6, except when he went away—during all that time he was playing bagatelle or looking on—we were all having sunday pots of beer during this time; not a great many, five, six, or seven—I did not see that then was anything the matter with tke prisoner—I don't think I was any the worse for liquor; I might have been slightly affected, the same as the rest; the others might have been more affected than me, I being used to the house and the beer too—there were four disputes altogether; the prisoner disputed that he owed the money, he wanted to say that he was cheated out of it—when I saw them fighting, it was with his fist that I sow the prisoner striking Hilton—I did not see anything used—they had their fingers clenched as if they were boxing—I did not see the prisoner with any knife in his possession—they did not tumble down outside the house; they did in the parlour—there were about a dozen or eighteen people looking on—I don't suppose there were twenty—there might have been from twelve to twenty; I can't say exactly, some did not stop; they merely were passing at the time—during the fight they had hold of each other—no one got nigh them while they were fighting; there was no ring—we were standing along by the door—we did not interfere—there were a few new gravel stones in front of the house—there was two or three minutes between the first fight inside and the second fight outside; it was during that two or three minutes that the prisoner went to the bar to ask for his cap—Hilton did not take hold of the prisoner then—I swear that—he began fighting first—I did not see him lay hold of the prisoner and drag him outside the house—I can't say he did not do it—I was away now and then—I was there from the time the cap was asked for until the last fight ceased—the prisoner was not dragged out of the house by Hilton during that time—Hilton struck the prisoner at the door as he was going out—Hilton struck the first blow.
WILLIAM HILTON . I am painter—on 24th March I was at the Milford Arms about a quarter-past 1 o'clock—there were several disputes about the payment of the beer and bets—I had rather a serious dispute with the prisoner about ten minutes to 6, before he went out; he wished me to stop till he came back—I did so, and then we commenced another game—he brought in a bunch of violets in his hand—he passed them round the room and observed how nice they smelt—I asked him if he would give me a few and he gave me them all—we commenced another game of bagatelle, and another dispute arose, and as I was standing against the bagatelle board the prisoner up with his right fist and struck me in tht face—he danced round me as if he was geing to hit me again, and I was obliged to hit him again—we
had a scuffle—he got me down on the floor, and struck me several times—the waiter picked him off me, and I went and spoke to the landlord—while I was talking to him the prisoner came and accused me of taking his cap—I told him several times that I had not got it—then as soon as we got outside he took hold of me and clung round me, and it seemed to me as if he was scratching me down the back—I did not feel him stab me at all—I had on a white jacket, two waistcoats, and my shirt—he then let go of me and walked away, muttering something which I could not hear—Martin came up to me and said "You are stabbed"—he took me into the parlour and I found that my head was laid open, and the blood was streaming down me—my head was not in that condition when I was talking to the landlord—Martin took me to a chemist's shop, and then to Mr. Chapman, the surgeon, who attended to me—the constable has the clothes which I had on.
Cross-examined. Q. You were nearly fire hours at this place, were you not? A. Yes; from about half-past 1 to half-past 6—I was not under the influence of liquor towards the end of the evening—I was perfectly sober at half-past 6—I did not take notice how many pots of beer we had—that is not because there were so many—there might have been five or six,; not fifteen—I do not think there were ten—I do not think there were, more than five or six—when the prisoner walked round me, the landlord said, "We will not have any more quarrelling here"—I thought then that he was going to strike me again—he came close up to me, but he did not strike at me then—I do not know that I said, "Come outside, and I will give you a good hiding or else you shall give me one"—I do not before I did—I might have said it—I don't remember exactly what I did say—when he accused me of taking his cap, I told him I had not got it—I did not, either in the passage or the bar, or any where in the house, catch hold of the priaoner by the coat or collar and pull him or try to pull him outside—I swear I did not do any such thing—I do not remember striking him when we were both going out of the house in the first instance—I might have done so—I do not know exactly whether I struck him or he struck me—I do not know how many persons there were round at the time of the row—I should think there were about twenty—I never saw the prisoner before that day—I did not see a knife in his possession from half-past 1 till the time he left.
JOHN MARTIN . I am a carpenter—I was at the Milford Arms, on 24th March—a quarrel took place between the prisoner and Hilton just before the prisoner went out—they had some word—the prisoner went out and came back, and there was a struggle between him and the prosecutor—the prisoner struck Hilton on the mouth—there were some blows struck, and they fell on the chair, and Wilson parted them, and the prisoner went outside—he came back; the prosecutor was then standing at the bar—I heard the prisoner ask for his cap—Hilton then went outside and the prisoner after him, and there were a few blows struck on both sides—it was not more than about two minutes—I saw some blood running from Hilton's neck, and he came inside—the prisoner muttered some words and went home—I told Hilton I thought he had been hit or cut with a stone—I do not know which word I used—I went with him to the chemist's—the blood was running down his head.
COURT. Q. Did you see him fall near any stones? A. They did not fall at all—I thought the prisoner had struck him with a stone.
Cross-examinted. Q. During the whole of the time they were outside fighting, had you your eyes on them? A. Well, I was standing at the door all the time—I am quite certain they did not fall at all—I was one of the parties who had been drinking the beer—I had been then all the afternoon
—I don't know why I said, "You have been hit, or cut with a stone;" but it struck me at the moment that be had been hit with a stone.
GEORGE WILSON . I am a gardener—on 24th March I was at the Milford Arms, and saw a fight in the bagatelle-room between the prisoner and Hilton—I did not hear the previous disputes—the prisoner struck the prosecutor flrst, and they both fell to the ground—I took the prisoner off the prosecutor, and the prosecutor went outside—he came back to the bar again—the prisoner went out of the parlour to the bar, and asked him for his cap—the prosecutor said he had not got it, and also said, "If you come outside, I will give you a good hiding, or else you shall me"—the prosecutor struck at him as he was coming out, and then the prisoner got hold of him—I think the prosecutor struck first outside—they got hold of one another, but I cannot say they were hitting one another—at the end, the prisoner went away—I noticed blood flowing from the prosecutor's head—I did not hear any remark made by Martin at the time—I assisted in taking the prosecutor to the surgeon's.
Cross-examined. Q. When they went out for the second fight, did not Hilton lay hold of the prisoner, and drag him out of the house? A. No; nor pull him out—he did not catch hold of him—he struck at him, and drew back into the road, and another man ran into him.
MR. SHARPE to GEORGE BIGGS. Q. On the second occasion when they went out to fight, did not Hilton pull the prisoner out, and did not they then strike one another? A. No; he did not pull him out—I swear that—I did not state befere the Magistrate that he pulled him out.
JOESPH CHAPMAN . I am a surgeon, residing at Hounslow—Hilton was brought to my surgery on 24th March, in a very feeble state, bleeding front a clean cut wound, about an inch long, at the back of the head—I could not say exactly whether that had been inflicted with a knife, or what—it might have been cut by the edge of anything else—there were two punctured wounds on the buttock, one of them an inch long, and an inch deep—they must have been inflicted by some instrument forced into him; some pooket-knife I should think—a stone could not do it—there were also two punctured wouuds on the back of the neck, and a wound and one or two scratches on the arm—the wounds on the neck were the same kind as those on the buttock, and inflicted by the same sort of instrument—I think the scratches might have been inflicted with the same sort of instrument, only with the edge turned—there were six wounds in all, and two scratches—the wounds were not in the position of any important artery, and therefore were not serious—if inflicted in the front of the person, in the neighbourhood of any important artery, they would have been serious.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose if it had gone in an inch in the artery in front of the neck, it would have been serious? A. Yes—a flint stone with a very sharp edge would not inflict those wounds on the buttock—I know a sharp stone will inflict a wound—it would not make a clean out through corduroy trousers—I have heard of a man's leg being out by a fall on a stone without its cutting his trousers at all—a sharp stone could not inflict such a clean cut wound as these, through the dress—I never saw a nail so sharp as to inflict such wounds—a nail with a very sharp point would not inflict such a wound—one of those on the buttook was an inch long—those in the neck were not above half an inch, and a quarter of an inch deep, I suppose—they had penetrated through the skin—falling on a sharp instrument would not produce all of those wounds—it might one—a spike might produce one.
COURT. Q. It would not produce six wounds? A. No.
CHARLES BLAKE (Police-sergeant, T 34). I took the prisoner into custody at his lodgings, on the 24th, between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—he was in bed, and appeared to be asleep when I went—I tried the door; it was locked; and I got in at the window and searched the house—I shook him up, and told him I wanted him—he said, "What for?" I said, "I want you for stabbing Hilon;" he said, "I know nothing about it;" and I then observed blood between the fingers of the right hand—these clothes (produced) were on Hilton when I saw him at the surgery—I have had them since.
Cross-examined. Q. I think you searched the house for a knife? A. I did; but did not find one—this was about three-quarters of an hour after the matter occurred.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Nine Month
NEW COURT.—Friday, April 11th, 1862.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald CONDER; and Mr. Ald. JAMES
Before Mr. Recorder.
468. WILLIAM FARROW (25), WILLIAM GRANT (22), JAMES PARSONS (85), JOHN FELLOWS (30), and SUSAN GABLE (28), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Samuels, and stealing therein 10 watches, 48 breast-pins, and 72 brooches, value 30l. his property.
MR. MITCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CHILD (Policeman, 93 E). On the morning of 15th February, about half-past 1 o'clock, I was on duty in Gray's-inn-road, near Mr. Samuels' shop, 8, Pindar's-place, a watchmaker and jeweller—I saw Farrow, and two others not in custody, standing within six or seven yards of the door—on seeing me, Farrow pretended to be drunk, and asked me if I would have something to drink—I told him I did not require anything; and they walked about fifty yards, and returned to the same place—I waited about for some time for farther assistance, and at last I took Farrow and one of the others in custody—(while I was waiting there I discovered that a door had been broken open next to Mr. Samuels'—it is a little shop where they mend china)—they were discharged at the police-court next day for want of evidence—after I got to the station, I went back and found that Mr. Samuels' had been broken open at the back—I got to it from the mews, by passing over several walls with a ladder, which I found placed against a wall—I went to Mr. Samuels' shop, and found it very much deranged—it was then about a quarter to 2.
Farrow. Q. Did not you ask the owner of the china shop if he would give me in charge? A. Yes; and he refused, because nothing had been taken—I charged you at the station with the robbery at Mr. Samuels'.
MR. MATTHEWS. Q. Was there any evidence besides your own, before the Magistrate? A. No.
EDWARD STEWART (Policeman, 309 G). I was on duty in Gray's-inn-road, at a quarter past 1 in the morning of the 15th, and saw Farrow, Grant, and Fellows, at the corner of Harrison-street, thirty or forty yards from Mr. Samuels' shop—a man, not in custody, was with them—I was about a hundred yards from Child—I did not say anything to him—I went round my beat—I met them again five or ten minutes afterwards, together, in Grays' Inn-road, and again after that—the last time I saw them was twenty-five minutes past 1—I was not there whan Child took them.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. How many times did you see them? A. About three times—I was at the corner of Frederick-street—it is about a hundred yards from Harrison-street.
GEORGE RANGER (Policeman, G 199). On Saturday, 15th February, about half-past 1, I was sent by my sergeant to Gray's-inn-road, and found the door of the china shop, next door to Mr. Samuels', open—I looked round the shop, and seeing that there was nothing for anybody to take, I hastened to Mr. Samuels' door, and heard something more in the shop, as though jewellery was being moved—another constable, E 54, came up—I told him what I had heard, and we both listened—I sung out, "Who is there; is that you Mr. Samuels?"—the answer was, "Yes; all right"—I went to Mr. Samuels' private residence, No. 1, Lisson-street, and rang and knocked, but could not make any one bear—I went back to the shop and listened, but could not bear any one—I turned, and saw Parsons and Grant come out of the mews, about five yards from where I stood—that was about a quarter to 2 o'clock—I was on a strange division at that time, and did not know there was a mews—I got Mr. Samuels up, and found the shop rather disturbed—there is an area, and I went down to the kitchen, and found marks on the water butt—from there I went on to the wall, where there was a ladder, which enabled parties to get over into the mews, where the railings were all broken away—that was the same mews that I saw Parsons and Grant come from—I saw them two yards from where the ladder was.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you see anybody else come out of the mews? A. Not at that time—I saw a couple of men making water—I did not take them in custody.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was any one with you? A. There was a cabman there—he is not here—he lives under Mr. Samuels'—he stood at the other side of me at the door—I did not know Grant and Parsons by sight—they walked very gently away.
WILLIAM WOOLDRIDGE (Policeman, E 63). On the night of 15th February, about a quarter past 1 o'clock, I was on duty near the prosecutor's shop, and saw Farrow at the corner of the mews, about five yards from Mr. Samuels'—I had seen him three times previously, at the corner of Lission-street, and in Sidmouth-street, and in Swinton-street—the furthest of these places was Sidmouth-street, which is a hundred yards from the shop—there were two men with him—I do not know them by sight, and they are not in custody—just after I saw Farrow first, I saw that the door of the china shop had been broken open.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Does anybody else live in the house? A. Two females.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Do you belong to the George-square beat? A. Yes—I have seen them go in there twenty times—it is a private house—I have not seen other people go in there, except the two females—Gable is not one of them.
THOMAS POOLEY . I am a labourer, of 11, Bath-place, Old-street-road—I have the key of 7, Bath-place, and take the references and the deposits when it is let—I let it to Gable and her husband—he is not here—I have seen Fellows go in there two or three times, and have seen Farrow go in with him twice—another female lived there.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Was Fellows a friend of the family? A. Yes; I suppose so.
Cross-examined by MR. BURNAND. You say Gable did live there with her husband? A. Yes.
JOHN SAMUELS . I am a jeweller and watchmaker, of 5, Pindar's-place—on 14th February I closed my shop at 9 o'clock at night, and went round at 11 and saw it safe—I was called up by the police at a quarter to 2, and found the house had been broken open by the back kitchen door—I missed a quantity of pint, rings, pencil-cases, and watches, to the amount of 30l.—this brooch, pin, and ring (produced) are mine.
WILLIAM JOSEPH CASELEY . I am assistant to William Russell, a pawnbroker, of Kingsland-road—I produce a gold ring, pledged on 15th February for 2s. in the name of Ann Gable, by the female prisoner; also a gold pin, pledged on 17th February, iu the name of Ann Smith; I do not know who by—these duplicates (produced) are what I gave.
THOMAS EVANS (Policeman, G 22). I went to 7, Bath-place, Old-street-road, and found the duplicate which the pawnbroker has spoken to—it is in the name of Ann Gable—I found the other other duplicate at George's-square—I found this centre-bit tool at Bath-place—while I was searching the place the female prisoner cane in, and said, "They are mine," refferring to the two duplicates—I then went to George-square, Hoxton, and found the centre-bit which fits the tool, this chisel, about twenty common keys, several duplicates, and among them the one for the pin identified by Mr. Samuels, and a brooch, which he also identifies—on a ledge in the water closet I found these three double-headed skeleton keys—they have a key at each end, making six altogether, also this coil of rope (produced).
AMBROSE SUITON (Policeman, A 422). I took Gable it custody on 18th March, and told her the charge—she said, "Oh! I know what it is; it is about the two rings which I bought about a twelvemonth age in Petticoat-lane."
THOMAS MAVETE (Policeman, N 43). On 25th February I went with Sergeant Evans to George-square, Hoxton, and found in the water-closet, in an old rag, these double-headed skeleton keys, also three pick locks, all rolled up together, and this jemmy (produced) lying on the ledge.
WILLIAM GARDNER (Policeman, G 179). I took the four male prisoners on 19th February, about twenty minutes before 6 o'clock in Cumberland-street, Shoreditch—they were all standing together talking—I spoke to them—they made two or three statements—I told them that I was not satisfied, and took them to the station for loitering, with the assistance of my brother constables.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Did you speak to them before the other policeman came up? A. Yes; but I did not tell them till I got assistance, that I should take them in custody.
THE COURT considered that there was no evidence to go the Jury against the male prisoners , and MR. METCALFE stated that as Gable was a married woman he did not wish to press the case against her.
NOT GUILTY .
469. WILLIAM FARROW, WILLIAM GRANT, JAMES PARSONS , and JOHN FELLOWS , were again indicted, with THOMAS HENDERSON , for unlawfully having in their possession, without lawful excuse, certain implements of housebreaking. Second Count, unlawful attempting to force open a door, with intent to steal.
MESSRS METCALFE and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM GARDNER (Policeman, G 179). On 19th February, at 5 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Holywell-lane, and saw all the prisoners standing together talking—I was on the opposite side of the way, and stopped and looked at them—they shook hands with one another, and wished each other good morning—three went into Shoreditch, and two into the Curtain-road—they were five or six yards from Mr. Syer's shop—I saw them all five again, talking, at about twenty minutes to 6, in Cumberland-street, Shoreditch, which is about a hundred yards from where I first saw them—I procured help, and took them all in custody—going to the station Fellows threw away this jemmy, and Henderson this other jemmy (produced), and at the station I found this life-preserver, weighted with lead and studded with spikes on Fellows, and on Parsons some lucifer matches and this knife, also some matches on Henderson, and on Farrow some matches, a pencil-case, and a knife, (produced.)
Farrow. Q. What did you charge me with? A. Loitering.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. How long had you been watching them? A. Some time—they were five or six yards from the pawnbrker's shop—I had never seen them before, but will undertake to swear they were all there—I am quite sure Parsons is one.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Where did they say they lived? A. Farrow, at 4, Bethnal-green-road; Grant, at 13, Burman-street, Commercial-road; Henderson, at 16, Bethnal-green-road; Parsons, at 16, Church-street, Shoreditch; and Fellows, at Fryer's-mount, Shoreditch.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Did you find the life-preserver? A. Yes; in the leg of Fellows' trousers.
JOHN THORPE (Policeman, G 193). On the morning of 14th February, about a quarter to 6 o'clock, I saw the five prisoners standing at the corner of Cumberland-street, Shoreditch—Gardner and I took them in custody—going up Cumberland-street, I saw Fellows throw the jemmy into a timber-yard—I afterwards searched the yard and found it.
JAMES CLARK (Policeman, G 149). On the morning in question, I was on duty in High-street, and saw Henderson running down a court—I caught him, and he dropped this jemmy—I had seen them all standing together—I saw Fellow throw the jemmy over a wall.
Henderson. Q. Did you not jump on me, and knock me down? A. No; we both fell together—you dropped the jemmy out of your hand as I got hold of you.
JOHN BUCKLEE (Policeman, N 406). On the morning in question, about a quarter to 4 o'clock, I saw Fellows, Parsons, Grant, and Farrow, come out of No. 22, George-square, Hoxton—I had seen them before at that house several times, going to and fro, early and late, but cannot say whether they live there.
SAMUEL MARTIN SYER . I am a pawnbroker, of 22, Holywell-lane—on the morning of 19th February, I examined the door of my plate shop, and found several marks of an attempt to force it open—I should imagine the marks to be made by such an instrument as this jemmy—the door-jamb was broken away from the force of the pressure—there were six, seven, or eight marks on it.
THOMAS EVANS (Police-sergeant, G 22). I examined Mr. Syer's shop, and found marks on the door and door-jamb, three of which this jemmy thrown away by Henderson fits, and two places on the other side of the door fit this other jemmy thrown away by Fellows—I afterwards went to 22, George-square, Hoxton, and found these three skeleton keys, this centre-piece, chisel, and
a quantity of common keys in the water-closet—I also found this rope there.
Farrow's Defence. Nothing was found on me but a knife and a pencil case.
Henderson's Defence. The policeman says he saw the others leave the house and I was not in their company. I ran down that court to get out of the way of the police; there were a lot of civilians who threw all sorts of missiles; they threw this jemmy, and the policeman said it came out of my hand, but it did not.
SERGEANT EVANS stated that in December, 1855, Fellows was tried at this Court, and sentenced to sit years' penal servitude, three or four convictions being proved against him. JOHN GILL, M 299, stated that Grant was convicted in August, 1860, of being in possession of property the proceeds of a burglary, and that he was the constant associate of thieves. STEPHEN REES, G 49, deposed to Parsons being twice convicted, and sentenced to three years' penal servitude; and PORTER WILLIAM DUNNAWAY, H 129, deposed to Farrow being convicted and sentenced to three years' penal servitude.
FARROW—GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
GRANT—GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.
HENDERSON—>GUILTY.— Confined Twelve Months.
Three Years each in Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. BEASLEY and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN JEFFERSON . I am deputy superintendent registrar of the district of Poplar—I have got the register book of births for the district of Bow and Bromley, for the year 1855—I have an entry here, dated 16th April, 1858, it is in several columns in the form of the schedule—the person entered here as the father of the child is Benjamin Hotine—the entry is signed Benjamin Hotine, and the name of the mother is entered as Sophia Hotine—in the column for name and maiden surname of the mother, is "Sophia Hotine, formerly Robins"—the entry is signed by tht registrar, James Dunston.
JAMES DUNSTON . In 1855, I was the registrar for Bow and Bromley—this entry is signed by me, and was made on 16th April, 1855—I am the registrar to whom information was given—I received the information from Benjamin Hotine, who signed the register as the father—he gave me the name of the mother as Sophia Hotine—I have got the maiden surname as Robins—that is the way in which I always enter the birth of a person who is born in wedlock.
THOMAS MASON . I was the registrar of the district of Artillery, in 1844; that is in the Whitechapel Union—this is the register book of that district for 1844, and here is an entry in it of the birth of a child named Benjamin James Hotine—the father is Benjamin Hotine—I do not know whether the prisoner is the person who gave me the information for that entry; it is eighteen years ago—the person who signed this book gave me all the information, and it is signed Benjamin Hotine—the entry as to the name and maiden surname of the mother is, "Sophia Hotine, formerly Robins"—when I
made an entry for any person who gave me information, I asked them the particulars, but I have not been registrar for ten years—I had one form of questions which I always followed—I cannot speak to the particular entry, as it is eighteen or nineteen years ago; I can only speak of my custom, which I do not think was ever departed from—I could not fill it up without information, and the information was from the person who signed it.
RICHARD CRANCH . I am the registrar of the south-eastern district of the City of London, and was so in 1851—I have here the register book of that district—here is an entry on 13th September, 1851, of the birth of a child named Sophia—I know the defendant perfectly well; he gave me the information with regard to the particulars contained in this entry—before I made the entry, I asked him when the child was born; he told me on the 3d of August, 1861, at 19, Lime-street—I asked him the name of the child; he told me Sophia—I asked him his Christian name; he said "Benjamin Hotine"—I asked him his wife's name; he said, "Sophia Hotine"—I asked him her name before she was married, and whether she was married before she was married or not; he said, "No"—I am obliged to ask both questions together, as the entry is for the maiden name of the mother; it would have been "Formerly so and so," if she had been a widow—he said that she had not been married before, and that her maiden name was Robins—I made the entry in his presence; he signed it, and so did I—I put the description and residence of the informant; he signed it, and I pot under it, "Father, 19, Lime-street, London."
JOHN JOSEPH LEE . I am the registrar of St. Botolph district—I have here the register of that district for 1858; Henry Spencer was then the registrar—here is an entry made and signed by him, on 17th April, 1858, of the birth of a child named Benjamin Hotine, and it is signed by Benjamin Hotine as the informant—in the column for "name, and maiden surname of mother," here is "Sophia Hotine, formerly Robins."
SAMUEL CORNELL . I am superintendent registrar of Kensington district—I have here the register book for that district for 1857—here is an entry, on 26th October, of the birth of a child on 15th September—the registrar is deceased—the father's name is entered as Benjamin Hotine, who is also the informant—the name and maiden surname of the mother is entered as "Sophia Hotine, formerly Robins"—it is signed, "Charles Holloway, registrar."
ROBERT JONES . I am sexton and clerk at St John's, Waterloo-road—I have here the register of marriages; here is the marriage of a person named Benjamin Hotine, on Norember 14th, 1838, to Mary Ann Saunders—here is the signature of Benjamin Hotine to the entry.
WILLIAM MACKRILL . I am in the Record Office of the Court of Probate and Divorce, and am officer of the Divorce Court as well—the Courts are combined, and all the papers of both Courts are kept together—I am a clerk there—I produce an affidavit signed by Benjamin Hotine, dated 13th June, 1861.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Does the affidavit verify the petition; is that the practice? A. Yes.
RICHARD CARTER . I have known the defendant since 1857—I was in his service in 1859—I am acquainted with his writing, and to the best of my knowledge I believe the signature to this affidavit to be his, and also this signature to the marriage register produced by Mr. Jones.
COURT. Look at the one above; is that his writing? A. I should not be so positive of that as the other—there is not the least doubt that many years have elapsed since he wrote this.
Q. But both these are the same date; do you believe the upper one to be his? A. Well, I before it to be.
MR. CLERK. Q. Look at the Poplar register of 1855; do you see there the signature, Benjamin Hotine? A. Yes—I believe that to be the defendant's, and also the one in the Whitechapel register for 1844; also this one in the St. Botolph register for 1848, and the one of 1857.
MR. GIFFARD objected to the affidavit being read, unless the petition was read with it, on the ground that the one explained the other; but THE COURT was of opinon that the affidavit was a distinct statement altogether. The defendant's affidavit in the Divorce Court was then read: it stated first, that the defendant was lawfully married to Mary Ann Hotine, then Saunders, at St. John's Chruch, Waterloo Road, on 14th November, 1838. Secondly, that at the time of the marriage he was a minor, and did not openly live with his wife, but cohabited with her at Billingsgate, and that she had no issue. Thirdly, that about January, 1839, his wife left the house at Billingsgate, where she had been living as a domestic servant, without communicating with him, and that he was unable to discover her residence. Fourthly, that in consequence of her absconding he went abroad in April, 1840, and did not return till 1841. Fifthly, that on his return about November, 1841, he discovered that his wife was living in adultery with Robert Kemp Foxall. Sixthly, that she had since that continued to live with Foxall, and had had several illegitimate children by him. Seventhly, that no collusion existed between the defendant and his wife. Eighthly, that he had personal cognisance of all the facts stated, except those in the fifth and sixth paragraphs.
MR. GIFFARD submitted that the case was not made out; that the latest statement relied upon as false was four years ago, and that there was no evidence that the defendant knew that his wife was alive at the time he made any of the statements in the register; that he had lost sight of his wife from 1839 to 1861, and therefore might have been legally married to Sophia Robins, and might believe these to be his lawful children. MR. CLERK stated that it was not for the prosecution to prove that the defendant had not committed bigamy. THE RECORDER considered that it was not enough to prove that the defendant had either made a false entry or committed bigamy, and then leave it to the Jury to say whether he had committed the crime charged. MR. GIFFARD (with MR. ORRIDGE) further contended, that if the words "father and mother," in the schedule of the Act, were to be taken to mean father and mother at law, illegitimate children need not be registered at all; that it was the custom, in some places, for a wife to retain her maiden name; the first act of a woman after marriage being to sign her maiden name, she having no other until she acquired by repute that of her husband; that the woman, with whom the defendant lived for eighteen years, had gained his name by repute, and therefore that statement on his part was not false; the Act did not require, or even permit, the registrar to inquire whether the parties were married or not, there being no column in the schedule for that purpose. (See 2 Strange's Report, p. 1162, and Rex. v. the inhabitants of Hardnett, 1 Durnford and East, p. 96). MR. CLERK, in reply, contended that the registrar was bound to ascertain the name of the mother, and her maiden surname, which meant her name before she was married; her name in the world might be Hotine, but that was not the question: the question was, whether the defendant gave false information. MR. BEASLEY urged that the maiden state implied "non marriage;" that if a woman married she altered her state and obtained the name of her husband, and that the whole effect of marriage was implied in that column of the schedule.
THE RECORDER, having consulted MR. JUSTICE MELLOR, considered that the
point whether them were true answers to the questions or not, had better be reserved for the opinion of the Court hereafter; but would take the opinion of the Jury whether there was a wilful misdescription with the object that a falsehood should be inserted in the register.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Friday, April 11th, 1862.
PRESENT.—Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. GIBBONS; and Mr. COMMON
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
PHILIPP DETROY (through an interpreter). I was staying at the Hotel Gertun, in St. John-street, Minories—I am a foreigner—I came to this country on Friday morning with the prisoner and the witness Zach—the prisoner and I lodged in the same house and slept in the same room, but in separate beds—I obtained this bill of exchange (produced) for 200 Spanish dollars—it is a banker's bill, payable at New York—I saw it last Sunday morning; it was then in my pocket-book in my coat—I could not say which pocket; sometimes I carry it in my breast pocket, and sometimes in my trousers' pocket—I missed it at 9 o'clock on Monday morning—it was brought to me in the course of the day by Zach—I had given information to the police before that—I also lost a sovereign from my pocket—when I missed the bill I went to the prisoner and told him if he had it to give it up, and I would not say anything—the prisoner had known that I had a bill of exchange in my pocket-book—before I went to him I went to the cook, and the mistress of the house, and the servants—when I missed the bill I went upstairs, told the prisoner that nobody else could have done it but him, because nobody else was in the room—the mistress of the house wanted to send to the police and search him, to see whether he had the bill or not, but the prisoner went out—I cannot say whether he knew that the police were to be sent for when he went out—I cannot say that he heard what the mistress of the house said—when the police came he was gone—the bill was given to me by Zach about two hours after he was gone—I saw the prisoner again about two hours after he left the house.
Prisoner. Q. Was it 9 or 11 o'clock when you missed the cheque? A. 9 o'clock.
SEXTUS ZACH (through an interpreter). I am a mariner, and live at 3, Haydon-square, Middlesex—I came over to England from Rotterdam with the last witness and the prisoner—I saw the prisoner last Monday in the street—he said that when Detroy, whom I lodged with, went down early in the morning, he went and stole the cheque—he said he had been to several bankers and wanted the bill cashed; but they would not cash it for him, because they had to write first to New York and see if the bill was paid or not—I then proposed that I should get it cashed for him, and that we should divide the money between us—he did not mention any banking house to which he had been to get it changed—I said he should give me the cheque, as I went to a banker's before, and got some Prussian money changed for English, and he should go with me and get it cashed, and then divide the
money—the prisoner gave me the bill to do so, and I went to the bank—the prisoner was to wait outside to be ready to receive the money if I should be able to change the bill—that was after the prisoner had told me he had stolen it out of the prosecutor's pocket—I had never changed any money at all; I only told him so, to induce him to give me the bill—I went with him under the pretence of changing the bill, and the first policeman I met I told the circumstance to—I gave the bill to the policeman—it was in the neighbourhood where the robbery had taken place; and, when I told the policeman that was the person who had taken the bill, he ran after him and caught him, and we went together and saw the prosecutor almost immediately.
Prisoner. Everything he has said is untrue.
ALFRED JOSEPH TURNER (City-policeman, 595). On Monday last I recieved information from the landlady, in consequence of which I waited shout for some time—the witness Zach came running over to me, gave me some information, and pointed out the prisoner; and I went after him, caught him, took him in custody, and took him to the prosecutor—Zach gave me this bill, which I produce—I took the prisoner to the station, in custody—the bill is a bill of exchange for 200 dollars, payable in New York; town on a house in New York.
Prisoner. When we came up the street, and saw the policeman standing there, the witness came and gave information to the police to clear himself, or else he would not have done it.
MR. LILLEY. Q. What time was it? A. In the afternoon—I had been watching for him some time.
Prisoner's Defence. I saw the prosecutor about 9 o'clock in the morning, and went out with him; when he came back about 11 o'clock he only missed the bill then. I took it, and only kept it to frighten him. When I went out about 11 o'clock I did not say I had it, but went out with the view of changing it, and bringing him the cash for it I thought it would be more agreeable to him. I could not change it, and I met Zach, and told him; he proposed to change it, and that then we would run away with the proceeds between us. I could not get it back from him, and so I thought I would let him change it, and then try and get the money from him, and bring it back to the prosecutor.
COURT to PHILIPP DETROY. Q. Did you know anything of the prisoner before you came over with him? A. No; he was not a friend of mine.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy on account of his youth.
Confined Six Months.
472. FREDERICK WHITE (39), CHARLES ABRAHAMS (30), and MARY ANN ABRAHAMS (57), Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Roger Watkins, and stealing therein a jug, a pair of sugar tongs, 2 pepper castors, 3 table cloths, and a shawl, his property.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH SHANK . I am in the service of Mr. John Roger Watkins, of 1, Portland-villas, Bow-road, and was so on 10th December—between 10 and 11 o'clock that night I closed the house and went to bed—the house was then safe and secure—I came down in the morning about half-past 6, and found four bars taken from the pantry window, and the window-frame smashed in so that there were means of getting in through there—I searched and missed a silver cream jug, two pepper castors, from the parlour cupboard, sugar tongs, and table cloths, from the drawer in the breakfast-room,
a great coat from the hall, and my shawl from the passage by the kitchen door—these (produced) are the articles—they were all safe the night before I missed them—the table cloths are marked—they are in the same state as they were on the night of 10th December.
WALTER KERRESEY (Police-inspector K.) About 1 o'clock on the morning of 4th March, the prisoner White was brought to the station—he said he lived at 12, Violet-street, Devons-road, Bromley—I saw a key taken from him, and went to 12, Violet-street with it—I opened the front door with it, and went in and searched—I found a woman and child there in bed—I found this table cloth marked "J. R. Watkins, 1847," a pair of silver sugar tongs, on the dresser, and this shawl on the bed—I found nothing else there relating to this indictment—I did not receive any information from White or hear him make any statement either before or after I went there—on Friday, 7th March, I went to Rose-court, Beer-lane, City, and saw Mrs. Abrahams there in a down stairs room mangling—I said, "Is your name Mrs. Abrahams?"—she said, "Yes"—I asked her if she had a son-in-law of the name of Frederick White, living in Bromley—she said she had—I asked her if she ever received any coats, pieces of cloth, table covers or cloths, any silver pepper castors, a silver milk jug, or any other articles from White—she said she had not—I said, "You have not? but White has told me so, and I must search your house"—she said, "Well, there is a coat up stairs which White gave me"—she went upstairs, I with her, and she handed me this coat, which was identified by the last witness—she said, "A table cloth I put in the fire yesterday; I saw it was marked with red letters, and I burnt it"—I said, "Where are the silver pepper castors and the silver milk jug?"—she said they were at her son's house, 3, St. Andrew's-hill, Blackfriars—I then told her I should take her into custody for receiving those things knowing them to have been stolen, and I went with her and the constable to her son's house, 3, St Andrew's-hill—I went into a back room on the second-floor, where I saw three females, and asked them some questions—one of them, named Mary Ann Atley, handed me the key of a bureau in the front room, in consequence of something I had said to her—I took the key and opened the bureau with it, and found in it two silver pepper castors and a silver milk jug—they are not identified—(MR. BESLET objected to the production of any articles besides those included in the indictment. MR. LILLEY contended that all articles found on the premises of an accused person might bs produced, although not having reference soley to the charge before the jury, and that the particular articles in question might be selected at the end of the case. MR. METCALFE stated that the case of Regina v. Oddy decided that the property could only be produced when stolen from the same person. THE COURT, after referring to Regina v. Oddy, was of opinion that the articles could not be produced)—this coat was given me by Mrs. Abrahams—I also found these two table cloths at St Andrew's-hill—I remained there till about 6 in the evening—the prisoner Charles Abrahams then came home—on hia coming into the back room where the three females were, he said, "I am very glad you have come, Sir"—I asked him if his name was Charles Abrahams—he said, "Yes; I suppose you have got those things which White gave me"—I said, "What things do you mean? the two silver pepper castors and the silver milk jug?"—he said, "Yes; there are two table cloths also which White gave me"—he said to Miss Atley, "Give them to him," and she fetched them from another room—I looked at them and said to him, "They were not in this state when you received them from White"—he said, "No, they were not"—I said, "The
name is darned over"—at my request, Miss Atley, in his presence, ripped out the cotton, and then I found the mark "J. R. Watkins"—a part of the other has also been darned over, and the name of Charles Abrahams marked on it—here it is; in marking ink—I then asked him if ever he had received any pieces of cloth or any coats from White—he said he had not—I said, "I shall take you into custody for receiving these things that were stolen," meaning the pepper castors—he then said that he had given Fred. White a guinea for the silver pepper castors and the milk jug, and I then took him to Bow-station—I took possession of other articles in the house—Sarah Shank was at the station, and on my producing the articles she said, in the prisoner's presence, that they were her master's, taken from the house on the night of 10th December—I did not hear him make any reply to that—on 8th March, Mary Ann Abrahams and Charles Abrahams were each in a separate cell connected with the charge room—I went to visit the female prisoner's cell at 9 o'clock, and she said, "Can I speak to you, Sir, in the presence of my son?"—I said, "Certainly"—I unlocked the door of Charles Abrahams' cell, and brought him to the door of his mother's cell, she took him by the hands, cried, and kissed him, and said, "Charley, let us tell all about it and make a clean breast of it"—I brought them into the charge room and sat down—I said, "Mrs. Abrahams, before you make any statement to me it is my duty to caution you; do not tell me anything to criminate yourself, but whatever you tell me will be taken down in writing, and used in evidence against you"—she then repeated the following statement, which I took down in writing, "When first Fred, White came to me, he brought me eleven pieces of cloth, which he stated he found when coming from work; I sent four pieces of the cloth to my sister Mrs. Taylor, Pearley-cottage, Brighton-road, Croydon; then he brought me what my son has given you last night (meaning these articles;) then he brought me the coat, which I gave up to you last night, and told me he bought it in Petticoat-lane for 6s.; three pieces of cloth I sent to Mrs. Franklin, at Islington, to sell for me"—the prisoner Charles then immediately said, "And four pieces I had; "he continued: "Now I will tell you, Sir; you asked me last night if I had not got an Inverness cape and a pair of boots; well, I had; it was got out of pawn by Fred. White himself; the amount was 18s.; I gave him 3s. for the ticket; I disposed of them both, but I can get them back again; I know where there are two pieces of the cloth, one my wife has and one Miss Mitford has; the cape is at Mr. Starkey's, at St Mary-at-Hill; the boots our second mate had on board the Earl of Auckland"—that is all—on the morning of the 8th, at Stepney station, he made a further statement to me—on 11th March, while at the Court and passing the cell, White said, "Officer, can I speak to you?"—I said, "What do you want?"—he said, "Just tell my sisters I want to speak to them"—his sisters came to the cell door and handed him some tea or coffee, and bread-and-bntter—he said, "Officer, I stole all them coats, all them pieces of cloth and table cloths, and them silver things; Mrs. Abrahams told me to steal all that I could, and bring them to her to dispose of them"—she was not there.
White. It is false; I never mentioned Mrs. Abrahams to him.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. (For Chales Abrahams.) Q. Is the prisoner a mate on board a vessel? A. I believe he is steward on board the Earl of Auckland, a vessel trading between London and Rotterdam—I do not know whether, when he came in the day I was there, he had just returned from it—I believe the vessel goes to Rotterdam, and returns here
every week—when I came in he asked me whether I had got the table cloths as well as these things—I swear that I called his attention expressly to the mark, "J. R. Watkins," and he said it had been altered—he said they were not in that state, meaning about the mark being darned over—I have heard the evidence of the servant girl—I heard her say they were in the same state as when they were lost, but I do not think she rightly understood it—the two sisters were present when the conversation with White occurred, and they heard what took place—the police-court and the station oommunicate, and a person passing from the station to the Court the back way, would pass the cells—I came down stairs at 9 in the morning, and went to look at the prisoner's cell, and then Mrs. Abrahams addressed me—the two Abrahams were not under remand at the time—they had not been committed—they had been about twelve or fifteen hours in custody—they employed Mr. Young, a solicitor, to defend them, and yet they made that communication to me—when I was taking it down at the station, the sergeant on duty was present—he is not here—I did not take White's statement down; not the part where he denied saying anything about Mrs. Abrahams—it was in the open yard, and there was no convenience for taking it down—I generally carry a pencil and memorandum-book, but not always—I have not got one in my pocket now of any kind—I have other papers besides this scrap—I might have taken his statement down if I had been so inclined, the two sisters being there made no difference.
Q. It was not so worth while taking that down when they were present as when you had the mother and son all to yourself in the cell; is that the reason you did not take it down? A. No, the reason was that I had no memorandum-book, and it was in the yard—I have been getting up the case—I summoned some witnesses, and gave instructions in the office for the indictment—I did not think it necessary to employ an attorney—I do not understand more about these cases myself.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. (For Mary Ann Abrahams.) Q. Did you put the conversation of 7th March in writing at the time? A. Not at the house, on the first oocasion—I think I said, in the course of the conversation, "I suppose you have heard what has occurred; you know he was apprehended for housebreaking the other day"—I said, "I suppose you know that Fred. White is apprehended for housebreaking"—she said, "My daughter told me so the day before yesterday"—I asked her if she had a cost, and she said the had not.
Q. Did not she say, "Oh, dear me, the coat is up stairs;" she did not say in that off-hand manner, "Well, the coat is up stairs?" A. No, she did not—I do not know that she was very much affected at the time—she might have appeared very much depressed in spirits; I do not know, it being the first time I had seen her—she did not appear so, I thought—she was very deaf—the conversation that I took down was on the following morning, before either of the Abrahams had been before the Magistrate—I think Mrs. Abrahams was charged before the Magistrate with receiving some of the property of Mr. Watkins—I learnt from her at the first conversation, that she knew of White having been arrested two days before—that which I took down I wrote down as she said it to me from her mouth; not at the cell door, but in the charge room where I brought them—at the time she said, "Charley, let us tell all about it, and make a clean breast of it," I was not writing—I am quite sure the expression, "make a clean breast of it," was used; I swear to it—they were her exact words—I wrote them down immediately afterwards; a second had not elapsed—it is not possible that those
are my words; they are her own words—it is a natural expression for a policeman—she did not say at once that she was determined to tell all about it—there was nothing in her statement untrue to my knowledge.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Is your memory quite clear as to what Charles Abrahams said on that occasion, when you did not take it down? A. Quite—I have not the slightest doubt that he used the expressions I have used.
COURT. Q. Is the house in the parish of St Mary-at-Bow? A. Yes.
GEORGE ATKINS (Policeman.) I took Frederick White in custody on the morning of 4th March, in the area of Mr. Sunlie's house, Bow-road, at 1 o'clock, and conveyed him to the station—he said that it was distress that had brought him to it—I found on him 2s. 2 1/2 d., two knives, and some tools.
Mary Ann and Charles Abrahams received excellent characters.— NOT GUILTY .
WHITE— GUILTY .
473. FREDERICK WHITE and CHARLES ABRAHAMS were again indicted for a burglary in the dwelling-house of James Martin, and stealing 1 cape, 1 coat, 2 pairs of boots, and other articles, his property; and also a burglary in the dwelling-house of Francis Farman, and stealing 2 coats, 1 watch, 1 guard, 1 table-cover, and 2l. 10s. in money, his property; to which
WHITE PLEADED GUILTY , and no evidence was offered against Charles Abrahams..
NOT GUILTY .
474. FREDERICK WHITE, CHARLES ABRAHAMS , and MARY ANN ABRAHAMS , were again indicted for a burglary in the dwelling-house of John Timberlake, and stealing 3 coats, value 6l., 1 pair of boots, value 10s., 25 yards of cloth, and 10s. in money, his property; to which
WHITE PLEADED GUILTY .—No evidence was offered against the two Abrahams.— NOT GUILTY .
WHITE.— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. BURNAND conducted the Prosecution.
DAVID PRICE . I live at 1, Ware-passage, Somers'-town, and am a shoemaker—last Wednesday evening, 2d April, I was standing at my door—I walked up the passage, and Mrs. Price my wife, and Mrs. Quinton were rowing with one another—Mrs. Quinton lives in the court, and keeps a broker's shop there—she is the prisoner's mistress—I was bending down to part them; one of them was down like—I took them partly away from one another, and had a blow on the head—I could not tell who it was then—I cannot say what it was done with; it made me insensible—I was taken to the station-house, when I came to my senses I found myself there—I was suffering very much from that blow, and I had a wound in my leg.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. You had been ill before this occurrence, had you not? A. No, not at all—I am fifty years of age—this happened last Wednesday week—I did not do anything on the next day, Thursday—I did not move any goods on that day—I was looking after others who were moving—Mrs. Quinton is the employer of the prisoner—I did not strike her at all—I only just tried to separate them—I told her to be quiet, not to be so foolish—they were not fighting, they were pulling one another's hair—I did not see any jars there whatever—I am quite certain there were none about there—I do not know that there were any broken—I was in the
passage when I was struck, a little way from my door—it is a kind of court out of doors—it was about twenty yards from Mrs. Quinton's shop—I do not know how long Mrs. Price and Mrs. Quinton had been quarrelling before I interfered—I came out of the little parlour and walked up as soon as I as it—Mrs. Price had not gone out from me two minutes—I cannot say that I only had one blow—I did not see the prisoner till I was up at the station-house—I did not notice him close to Mrs. Quiuton—I saw no one except Mrs. Price and Mrs. Quinton—I saw a lame man, Mils Seanling's father, I think—I did not see Charles White—I don't know how long I stopped at the station-house—I went home and slept that night.
CATHERINE SOANLING . I live at Ware-passage, Somers'-town, in the same house with Mr. Price—on Wednesday, 2d April, I was minding my things outside the door—I was present when these two woman were quarrelling—Price was also at the door—he went to separate the two women who were quarrelling, and the prisoner came towards him, made use of the words, "I will settle the b—," jumped on Mr. Price's back, first hit him in the face with his fist, and, before he could turn round, struck him on his head with a hammer—the prisoner was glazing some windows—he is a bootmaker by trade—Price turned round to push him away, and the prisoner fell down—when he fell, he turned round and struck a knife into the thick part of Price's leg—I saw him do that deliberately—Price did not go down—he was senseless; but he did not fall.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite right that Price did not fall? A. Yes—his back went against the lamp-post—he did not fall on the ground—this was a white-handled knife; a putty knife they call it—I saw it distinctly—it was a wide knife with a pointed tip—he was mending a window with it—I went for a policeman as soon as I saw the blood and the blow—I did not see Mr. Price strike the prisoner—I saw the beginning of the row—I can swear I saw no crockery about there—there was nothing broken at Mrs. Quinton's door—this is the knife (produced)—he was using the knife and the hammer when he saw his mistress having a row with Mrs. Price.
DAVID HOLDER (Policeman, S 418). On Wednesday afternoon, 2d April, I was called up to Ware-passage, and took the prisoner into custody—there were ten or twelve people there—some one in the crowd called out, "Be careful, policeman, he has got a knife"—I then took hold of the prisoner, and he said, "I have not got a knife; but I hit the old b—with a hammer"—I was then searching him—my brother constable went after the hammer, he could not find it, or the knife.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you on the spot when the row took place? A. No—I saw no earthenware about—there was some up against Mrs. Quinton's door, four or five yards off.
GEORGE PARBY (Policeman, S 376). I went with Holder to Ware-passage—just as I turned the corner, I saw the prisoner throw a hammer away—I said to the other constable, "Search him for the knife"—the prisoner directly said, "It is not done with a knife; I hit the old b—with a hammer; I wish I had finished him"—he repeated that several times afterwards on his way to the station and at the station—I was unable to recover the hammer—I went in search of it—it had been taken away by some one—I then took the prisoner to the station-house, and the prosecutor to the Great Northern Hospital—he was bleeding very profusely from his bead and from his leg—the Magistrate remanded the case for two or three days, to see if it was serious.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the house surgeon? A. Yes; he examined
the wounds both in the head and the leg; and said they were not of a dangerous character—he prepared a bandage, and called the porter, which is usual, to bandage them up—I then took him home.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Four Months
Before Mr. Recorder.
WHITE— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
RUSSELL— PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
The prosecutor recommended White to mercy, believing he, as will as other carmen, had been led into it by Russell.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. ROWDEN and UNDERDOWN conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM QUELCH . I keep a chandler's shop at Stratford—on Tuesday evening, 11th March, the prisoner came to my shop and bought a quarter of a pound of cheese—it came to 2 1/2 d.—he put down a half-crown, and I gave him 2s. 3 1/2 d. change—I laid down the half-crown, and when he went out, I took it up and found it was bad—I and my son went ont and pursued the prisoner to Bow—I found him with another man, standing under the window of the Three Cups public-house—they moved on—one crossed the road, and the other went straight on, and the prisoner turned down a gateway, and then came back—I said to him, "You bought a little cheese of me just now;" he said, "No;" I said, "Yes, you did; and gave me a bad half-crown:" he said, "You are mistaken"—I was positive of him, and said, "There was another man with you, and he has crossed over;" he said, "Then I will go and find him;" and be ran across the road—the one that was with him had been, not two minutes before, for half an ounce of tobacco, and gave me three halfpence—a boy stopped the prisoner, and I gave him into custody to Major, the constable, with the half-crown.
JOHN IRELAND . I assist my brother at the Yorkshire Grey public-house, Stratford—on Tuesday evening, 11th March, the prisoner came there for a glass of ale, for which he tendered a bad half-crown—I said, "This is a bad one; you had better go about your business; we don't want to have anything to do with you"—he paid for the glass of ale with a good two-shilling piece—my brother marked the half-crown, and gave it to Pearson.
GEORGE MAJOR (Policeman, K 369). The prisoner was given into my custody, on 11th March, by Mr. Quelch for passing this bad balf-crown—the prisoner said Mr. Quelch was mistaken—I searched him, and found on him a half-crown, shilling, and sixpence, and a penny, good money.
GUILTY — Confined Nine Months.
478. DAVID BARREN (21), Breaking and entering a building' within the curtilage of the dwelling-house of John Gibson O'Leary, and stealing therein 5 calico shirts, 3 petticoats, and other goods, his property; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
CHARLES KEITH . I am foreman to Mr. Joseph Harris, a pawnbroker, in High-street, Deptford—on Saturday, 8th March, about half-past 11, I was behind the counter in the front part of the shop—I heard a crash of glass, and saw a hand and a stick going from the window—I immediately ran out, and laid hold of the prisoner—his hand was bleeding—he said, "I beg your pardon, I was drunk," or "had been drinking, and in falling broke the glass"—I found at his feet one gold chain, and two others, which I threw back into the window through the broken pane of glass—I took the prisoner into the shop, and sent for a constable—he took him away, and when I had got about six yards, from what I heard, I went and asked the constable to bring him back, that he might be searched, in case he should pass anything—he was searched in my presence—the policeman put his hand into his left-hand pocket, and I put my hand into his right-hand pocket; and took out a gold watch, and this ticket—it is part of my master's property—the prisoner afterwards assumed to be drunk; but he was not at the time.
WILLIAM WARRINGTON (Policeman, R 279). The prisoner was given into my charge, and I saw the watch found by the first witness—the prisoner did not appear to me to be drunk at the time I took him in charge: but on leaving the police-station, to go to the police-court, he threw himself down several times.
Prisoner's Defence. I fell against the window as I was very tipsy, and did not know what I was about. I had no thought of taking anything.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS HOLMAN . I am a bootmaker, of Plumstead, Kent—about 12 o'clock, on Thursday, 20th March, I went to bed—I had previously fastened my doors and windows—I left some boots in the shop window—I got up
about 6 on Friday morning, and on opening my shop, I found that a pane of glass had been taken out of the window, and the boots were all gone—I saw marks of a knife where the putty was taken out from the glass—there had been no shutters up—these are a portion of what was in the window—I lost altogether between 4l. and 5l. worth.
WILLIAM SHEPHERD . I am a bootmaker, in High-street, Woolwich—I have known the prisoner about three months—he was a waiter at a public-house at Woolwich, and I occasionally repaired boots for him—on 26th February last I met him in High-street, Woolwich, and he asked if I knew where he could sell a lot of boots, for he knew where he oould get some—I told him I did not—on 21st March, about half-past 7 in the morning, he came to me and brought two pairs of uppers, and asked if I would buy them—I said I did not know, he could leave them and I would see—I left him in the room, and went to the station and gave information—I gave the same uppers to the policeman.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not say you would go out and see if you could sell them? A. Yes; but I went to Woolwich for a policeman—you told me you stole them on the 21st March, about 2 or 3 in the morning.
WILLIAM YARDLEY (Policeman, R 259). On the morning of 21st March I went to Shepherd's house, and he gave me these 2 pairs of uppers—I afterwards went to 8, Ropeyard-walk, Woolwich, and looked over the house for the prisoner—it is a lodging-house—he was not there then—I stood in the back yard for some minutes, and the prisoner and another man, named Brown, came over the wall at the back—I told the prisoner I should take him into custody for breaking into a house at Plumstead, and stealing a quantity of boots—he said, "Very well"—on searching him at the station I found on his feet a pair of the stolen shoes, and in his coat-pocket he had a smaller pair—in his pocket I found a knife with some putty on it—I compared it with the marks on the window of the prosecutor; such marks have been made with this knife.
Prisoner's Defence. I was at work at a coffee-shop till half-past 4 in the morning, and had them offered to me for sale, or if I liked to dispose of them; I was to have one pair for my trouble; I took two pairs and the uppers to Shepherd, and he said he would try and sell them; I knew nothing of their being stolen; I had bought some shoes of the same man some time before.
GUILTY of Stealing only. †— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. SMITH conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM YARDLEY (Policeman, R 259). On 26th February last I was employed at Woolwich in plain clothes—I saw the prisoners together there—Ryan was carrying a pair of boots—he took them into four shops and offered them for sale—Brown stood outside—I stopped Ryan and asked him where he got the boots from—he said he made them where he had been working in Union-square, Woolwich—I asked if he knew where it was—he said yes, he could show me—he went some distance with me, and then said, "It is no use my telling you a lie; I made them in London, where I have been working"—I then told him I should take him into custody—Brown made off but was brought back by a civilian.
Ryan. The evidence he has given now is not consistent with his evidence before the Magistrate—(The witness's deposition being read agreed with his evidence)—He accused me of having a false card in my possession, and he
produced two cards before the Magistrate. Witness. I have them here—Ryan pulled this one out of his pocket and said, "That is the address of my master"—it is a bootmakers' society card; the other card was found on Brown.
Brown. Q. When you took me into custody and wanted to ride my pockets, did not I say, "I will not let a rogue search an honest man's pockets? A. I did not take you into custody—you ran away and were brought back—you both gave a false address, 8 1/2, Crown-court—I went there—I went to the middle floor—there were five or six people in one room, but no one you told me to inquire for.
JOHN JAMES LOCK . I am a boot and shoemaker in High-street, Woolwich—on 27th February the constable brought these boots to me—I then examined my stock and missed a pair from a chair back where ten pain had been placed the day before—these are them—my name is stamped upon them—they had not been sold; when they are sold they have eylet holes put, and there are none to these.
Ryan to WILLIAM YARDLEY. Q. What card did you find in my possession? A. One belonging to the association—you told me the secretary's name was upon the card—it was not—there is no such place as Union-square, Woolwich—there is a Union-street.
Ryan's Defence. The policeman denies that there is such a person as the person whose name and address I gave; if I had an opportunity, I could prove his statement to be false.
Brown's Defence. I left London with this young man to get employment; I got this card from the president in Woolwich, and was told there was a chance of work there. Ryan said he was going to sell a pair of boots, but I did not know whether they were stolen or not; I knew nothing about them.
RYAN— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
BROWN— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Justice Mellor.
MR. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY of the attempt. — Confined Three Months
MR. OPPENHEIM conducted the Prosecution.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
GEORGE POOLEY . I am a pawnbroker, in the service of Mr. Edward Carter, of Bear-lane, Greenwich—on 11th March, about half-past 6 in the evening, the prisoner came to pledge three spoons and a fork, for 9s.—I asked her whose they were—she said they belonged to her mistress—I asked her mistress's name—she said Smith, and she lived at 7, Creome's-hill-grove—I said, "If they belong to your mistress you had better go and fetch a note,
and then I will lend you the money"—she said she could very easily do that—she went out of the shop, and never returned again, leaving the property on the counter with me—I communicated with the police next day; but nothing was heard of her til a fortnight ago, when I met her in Trafalgar-road, Greenwich—I followed her to her matter's house, and then communicated with the police again.
Prisoner. I never took them to the shop; I was not these. Witness. I am sure she is the woman.
JAMES MARGETSON (Policeman, R 122). I went to Miss Martin's on 29th March, and she went with me to the pawnbroker's—I afterwards went back and saw the prisoner; she was living there as servant—I told her that I should take her into custody on a charge of stealing some silver spoons and a fork, which were found at the pawnbroker's—she said, "I know nothing at all about them; I was not out on that night at all"—I had told her the day and the hour—I said, "Put on your things, and come with me to the pawnbroker's"—she did so, accompanied by Miss Martin—the witness identified the prisoner as the person who had offered the things in pledge—I then took her to the station, and she was charged and remanded—on the Friday following I went to the prosecutrix's house and unlocked a box, with a key that I found on the prisoner, and found in it six pocket-handkerchiefs, some rice, and a quantity of lump-sugar.
EMILY MARTIN . I live at Maze-hill, Greenwich—the prisoner was in my employment for five weeks up to 29th March—these spoons and fork are mine—the prisoner had no authority to take them or pawn them—I pointed out the prisoner's box to the policeman, and he opened it with a key—one of the handkerehiefs found in it is mine, and one my sister's, and four belong to some young ladies pupils.
Prisoner's Defence. If I took their handkerchiefs, they nave got mine.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
ANTHONY ARMSTRONG . I am a Government inspector, and lived at 8, Acorn-Btreet, Woolwich, last July—I have moved now—on a Monday evening, early in July, I was at the Pavilion Gardens, North Woolwich, between 7 and 8 o'clock, I think—I was looking at a man walking across the tight-rope, and I felt something pulling at my chest, and when I looked down the prisoner had my watch in his left hand, and was giving a twist to the chain with his right—I took hold of him and gave him in custody—I got hold of him, and prevented him going away—I am sore he is the man.
HENRY COKE (Police-sergeant, K 48). I was called by the last witness, he gave the prisoner into custody—at the station he heard the charge, and said, "I did not attempt to do anything of the kind," or something to that effect—his words were, "You know I never did anything of the kind; I never attempted to steal your watch," or words like that—the signature to that deposition is my writing—it was read over to, me before I signed it—(The witness's deposition being read, stated, "He said 'You are mistaken; it was not me at all")—it might have been those words—it is some time since—those are the words—the prosecutor was holding him when, I came up—I was up a very short time after it took place.
Prisoner. I was standing by the office, and he came and laid hold of me about an hour after his watch was taken.
GUILTY .— Confined Three Month.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months each.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
SELINA ROBERTS . I am the wife of George Roberts, a chemist's assistant, of Lee, Kent—on 7th March I received four 10l. Bank of England notes—the prisoner was not present when I received them; but he knew that I had those notes—he saw me put them under my pillow—I kept them there—the prisoner was a lodger—I had the notes safe, under my pillow, on 7th March—there was also a small box—the prisoner was in the room the next morning Saturday, the box was then broken open, and I placed my notes next to the window—I missed them between 11 and 12 o'clock—I had seen them safe on Friday night—the prisoner slept in the same room with me and my husband—he was there on Saturday morning—I was asleep when the notes were taken away, and I missed them afterwards—I am not in very good health—I did not get up till after 12 o'clock that morning—I missed them when I woke—the prisoner had then gone—he did not come back for two days—I had had no quarrel with my husband—I never threw the notes in the fire-place, or did I present them to the prisoner—I did not tell him to put them in his pocket and keep them.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you and your husband have a few words? A. We did not—I did not use bad expressions and say I would throw the notes behind the fire—I did not give them to you.
GEORGE ROBERTS . I am the husband of the last witness—on 7th March I had four 10l. notes—when I came home on that day I gave them to my wife, and she put them underneath the pillow—the prisoner was present—on the following day, Saturday, between 11 and 12 o'clock, those notes were missing—the prisoner had slept in my house that morning—he never came back after that till Sunday morning, between 10 and 11 o'clock—he was absent again on Sunday night—I went in search of him on Monday, and found him—I called him out of the house where he was, and I said, "Harry, you must know something about those notes"—he said he knew nothing about them—he said, "I do not know anything about them; they must be at home"—he said nothing to me about any money being left—when he was taken into custody he said he did not know anything at all about them; he said he would go home with me and see about them; he knew they were at home—something passed about 27l.—he left that at a public-house called "The Gothic Hall," at Deptford—I went down there, and found he had left it there—I gave him in charge—the sergeant asked me what was the charge, and I said, "For stealing four 10l. Bank of England notes"—he then asked the prisoner what he had to say, and be then said my wife had given them to him—the sergeant said, "If that is so there is no charge"—I said, "Do you think it is likely that she would give four 10l. notes to him?"—we then went home to see whether she had given it to
him, and when we came back he said it was two 10l. notes and two 5l. notes—I said that was not so—I did not give them away—he took them—I did not see the notes thrown on the fire—I had no quarrel with my wife—I was rather cross because the box was broken; that was all.
JOHN ALLEN (Policeman, R 140). On 10th March I went with the prosecutor to a beer-shop in Deptford—I found the prisoner there, apprehended him, and told him he was charged with stealing four 10l. Bank of England notes—he said there was two 10l. and two 5l. notes, and the prosecutor's wife had given them to him—that was at the station-house—he did not say that at first—I searched him, and found 4l. 5s. 5d. on him.
Prisoner. I stated I had had the money outside the beer-shop, and I said it when at the station-house, that his wife had given it to me.
ANN LEWIN . I live at 13, Nelson-street, Deptford, and am the wife of Edwin Lewin, a labourer—the prisoner is my brother—on Saturday, 8th March, he came to me and said he had received a little money, and was going to buy some things—he brought them to my house, and when the policeman came on the Monday I gave them up to him—he left 8l. with me, and a lot of new clothes, half an hour before the police came—he told me he had been to receive a little money—he had done so twice before, and I thought he had been again.
THOMAS DAVIS . I live in King-street—I know the prisoner—on Saturday, 8th March, he came to my place as a usual customer—he was the worse for liquor—he was with two or three parties—he had some clothes with him, and a hat box—he said he had had some money from a division in the family—I believed him, as I knew they had some property a few years ago—I persuaded him to go home—I took him home, and he came back afterwards without anything—I changed a 10l. note for him—he had money in his possession then, in a large port-monnaie—I did not change the note for him then—he asked me to take care of it, and I did so—on Sunday night he came in with a young man, and said, "Mr. Davis, will you lend me a sovereign?"—I did so—on Monday he came in again, and asked me for another, and I gave him 9l. down at once, to get rid of it.
EDWARD FIELD BARBER . I keep the Dover Castle public-house, Broadway, Deptford—on Saturday, 8th March, the prisoner and a man named Haynes came into my house—I was asked to change a 10l. note, with Haynes' name and address on it—I afterwards changed another—they had been over the way to the clothier's, and they came back and changed the 10l. note with me—Haynes was with the prisoner at that time.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "I have nothing to say any more than this, that Mrs. Roberts gave me the notes on Friday night. I was wrong in changing them. She threw them into the fire, and if it had not bean for me they would have been burnt."
Prisoner's Defence. She gave them to me on that night. Mrs. Roberts the worse for liquor. I spent the money.
COURT to MR. ROBERTS. Q. Was your wife the worse for liquor on that night? A. No; neither of us.
Prisoner. They were both the worse for liquor.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
Before Mr. Baron Wilde.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY of the attempt. — Confined Eighteen Months
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
DAVID BROMER . I am a private gentleman, of 9, Caroline-place, Camberwell-green—on the morning of 24th December, about 11 o'clock, I was in Camberwell-road; at the corner of Southampton-street—I saw an old gentleman crowing the road I did not see him leave the pavement; he stood still and remained about the centre of the road—there was very great shouting, and I turned round and saw a gig approaching me from London towards Camberwell-green; it was about forty yards from the old gentleman when I first saw it—the prisoners were in the gig and Wilton was driving at about twelve miles an hour—they were shouting at the top of their voices in a very noisy manner, and when they had arrived within about twelve yards of the old gentleman they all but polled up and approached at a much slower rate, not exceeding seven or eight miles an hour; I should say about seven miles an hour—the old gentleman stood still, hearing the shouting; and they ran over him; the off wheel went over him—there was plenty of room on the other side of him for it to have passed without knocking him down; there was no vehicle in the road at all; there was much more room on one side of him than the other—it did not stop after it had run over him, but I stopped it; I seized the horse and took hold of the bit—they pulled up within the length of the horse and gig, and I went and took hold of the bit and unbuckled the rein, as they tried to go on—they first one got up and then another; they made a demonstration; I could not find a policeman, and I took them to the station-house—one got out of the gig first; they were very violent and would not leave go of the horse's head—they were both drunk—I took them to the station and charged them with being drunk and incapable, and they were locked up—I am accustomed to driving; up to 1834, I always kept one or two horses for my own riding or driving, and I have had six or seven in my stable—I did not know the old gentleman—I afterwards saw him dead at his house in January.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. (For Wilson). Q. What were you when you were driving these horses? A. A. gentleman—I am a civil engineer, and had the contracts for her Majesty's Military Roads—the old gentleman had left the kerb to go from the near side to the off side, and the prisoners were driving upon their own side of the way when I first saw them, but they were driving all manner of ways; they were not keeping so close to the near side as they ought; they were nearer to the near side than the off—it is a very wide road—there was no vehicle to prevent them driving anywhere—I have no animus in the case—the near wheel was, perhaps, seven or eight feet from the kerb when they struck him—I have been a Government road-maker for years—I have not also been a policeman—the road is forty feet wide—when I first saw the prisoners they were forty or fifty yards off, and were calling out at the top of their voices—the old
gentleman was in the road at that time, he was stepping off the kerb when I first heard them cry out—there was plenty of time for him to cross if he had not stood still when he got to the centre of the road—he walked to the middle of the road and then stood still. but when he left the kerb, the gig was forty yards away from him—when they began shouting to him he had just stepped from the kerb, and when they shouted he stood still—I was not in the least excited; I was as calm as I am now—I do not take stimulants; I am generally calm—when we got two-thirds of the way to the station-house they wanted to go back to see what was the matter—when I seized the horse's head one jumped off, and I made the arrangement that if one would walk alongside of me the other should walk by the horse's head, but they would not, and I unbuckled the reins—they tried to drive over me—I am on my oath—they did not want to get back to see what bad happened to this poor man.
WILLIAM TWENTYMAN . I am a private gentleman—on 24th December, about 11 in the morning, I was near the corner of Southampton-street, Camberwell-road, and heard some peoplet calling out—I saw the prisoners in a gig, going from the City towards Camberwell-green—I saw the old gentleman in the centre of the road, about sixty yards from the gig, which was going between eight and nine miles an hour, as near as I can guess—it knocked the old gentleman down and passed over his foot—the shaft or the breast of the horse knocked him down; some part of the side of the vehicle or horse—I did not see whether the prisoners slackened their pace at all—the gig was stopped about four or five yards after knocking the old gentleman down—I cannot say whether it was stepped by any one, but I should say that the driver stopped it—I then saw that the prisoners were drunk, Crown was the worst of the two—there was plenty of room for the gig to pass on either side of the old gentleman; there were very few vehicles in the road.
GEORGE DENINGTON . I was a policeman on 24th December, but am not now—I went from the station and met the prisoners—I cannot positively say whether they were sober or drunk, for I saw very little of them—they were charged with being drunk and incapable, and were detained at the station—I took them before the Magistrate at 3 o'clock in the afternoon; they were not taken before that, because they were drunk and incapable.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Were they charged with being drunk and incapable by the first witness? A. Yes; but I saw very little of them, and therefore should not like positively to swear whether they were drunk or not—I know a drunken man when I see him—if I had seen them at the station I could have judged better—Mr. Wilson was not incapable of getting out of the gig—I did not see any one carry him to the station.
HENRY NUTALL (Police-sergeant, P 17). On the morning of 24th December, I was on duty at the station—the prisoners were brought there a few minutes before 11, charged with being drunk and incapable of taking care of their horse and gig, and driving over Mr. Smith—they were both drunk—they left the station at twenty minutes to 3 to go before the Magistrate; they were not sent before that because they were not in a fit state to go.
HARRIETTE ANN HURT . On 24th December, I was in the service of John Smith, who lived with his wife at 16, Avenue terrace, Avenue-road, Camberwell—he was 87 years of age, but not at all deaf, nor was be infirm for his age—he left home on that morning between 9 and 10 o'clock, and was rought home in a cab about 12 o'clock, having met with an accident—he remained ill till 27th January, and then died.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Had he any relations? A. He had a daughter in the same house, but she was incapable of attending him; she is dead now—his collar-bone was broken, and his foot and arm were injured—the prisoners called once together to make inquiries about him, and Wilson called once or twice by himself, and he has sent—I have not heard that a sum of money was arranged to be taken before the death.
CHARLES TAYLOR . I am a surgeon—I attended Mr. Smith on 24th December—he died on 27th January from the injuries he had received—his collar-bone was broken, his left arm and leg were injured, and the left side of his body generally—they were such injuries as would be inflicted by being knocked down by a horse.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose he died from exhaustion? A. From the injuries and old age—the injuries were themselves sufficient.
(MR. METACALFE appeared for CROWN.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MESSRS. POLAND and UNDERDOWN conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD BARLOW . I am the landlord of the Ridley Arms public-house, Kingsland—on 19th February last the prisoner came there between 3 and 4 o'clock, called for half a pint of beer, and tendered a counterfeit shilling—I told him it was had, and said, "Where did you get it?"—he said he had it in change for a half-crown—I asked him if he had any other money—he said, "No;" that was all he had left—I gave him into custody, marked the shilling, and gave it to the police-officer Luff.
DANIEL LUFF (Police-sergeant, N 7). On 19th February I took the prisoner, and received from the last witness this shilling—I searched the prisoner, but found nothing on him—he gave the name of Charles Williams, 2l, Glo'ster-street, Drury-lane—he was taken to Kingsland police-station, and then to Worship-street, remanded till the 26th, again till 4th March, and then discharged.
JOSEPH MALPAS . I keep the Lord Nelson, Nelson-square, Blackfriar's road—the prisoner came there somewhere about two months before 10th March—I served him with half a pint of beer, and he gave me a counterfeit sixpence—I gave him change, and he left—directly he was gone I found that the sixpence was bad—I had not mixed it with other money—I kept it separate till 10th March, when the prisoner came again—I knew him directly—he asked for a pint of beer, which was twopence, and gave a counterfeit shilling—I sent for a police-constable and gave him into custody, and gave that shilling and the sixpence to the constable Crump—I said to the prisoner, "This is not the first time you have been; you have been here before and passed a bad sixpence"—he said nothing—I am quite sure he is the man.
Prisoner's Defence. I am very near-sighted, almost blind, and I hope you will have mercy on me.
He was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court,
on 17th December, 1860, of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin, when he was sentenced to Twelve Months' imprisonment; to this he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Four Year's Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. POLAND and UNDERDOWN conducted the Prosecution.
EMMA STUTTART . I life at 9, Alfred-place, Spa-road, Bermondsey—my mother keeps a greengrocer's shop there—on Monday, 24th February, the prisoner came in and I served him with two herrings—he gave me shilling—I gave him change and he left—I placed the shilling on the shelf, where there was no other money—the same evening I served him with two haddocks—he then gave me a two-shilling piece—I got change from my mother, gave it him, and he went away—I gave that two-shilling piece to my mother—some time after, she gave me a two-shilling piece to get some butter with—I took it to Mr. Johnson's, gave it to Mrs. Johnson, and she gave it me back—it was bad—I took it back to my mother, and I then looked at the shilling that I had put on the shelf; and gave it to my mother—that turned out to be bad—on 27th February I saw the prisoner again, when he was given into custody—I am sure he is the man who gave me those pieces of money.
JANE STUTTART . On Monday, 24th February, the prisoner was in my shop twice—on the first occasion he came for two herrings, and I gave my daughter change for some money—on the second occasion he came in for two haddocks, and I gave her change for a two-shilling piece, which she gave me then—I afterwards saw a shilling on the shelf—I sent her with the florin to get some butter, it was found to be bad, and she brought it back to me—I put it in a bag and put it in my pocket by itself—on Thursday, 27th February, the prisoner came and asked for two herrings, and gave me a had shilling—I tried it and told him it was bad—he said he was not aware of it—I told him it was the fourth shilling he had brought me that week—I sent for a policeman and had him taken—I gave the two shillings and the florin to the policeman.
Prisoner. I did not pass the florin or shilling at all. Witness. I am sure he is the man—I feel satisfied that the florin I gave my daughter to go out with and buy the butter was the same she had given me—I had no other in my possession.
EDWARD JAMES BROOKS (Policeman, M 222). On 27th February, I took the prisoner in custody, and received from Mrs. Stuttart these two counterfeit shillings and a counterfeit florin—the prisoner said nothing—I found nothing on him.
Prisoner. I was not aware the last shilling was bad.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and UNDERDOWN conducted the Prosecution.
FANNY BUDD . I live at the Marquis of Wellington, Wellington-street, Dookhead—a fortnight before 8th March, the prisoner came and asked for half a pint of porter—I served him with it, and he gave me a bad shilling
—I told him it was a bad one—he said he was very sorry, he had taken it at the Docks—he went away—I took back the porter, and kept the shilling and I put it on the shelf—on 8th March, my sister Lucy called me to the bar—I went and found the prisoner there—he left—I saw his face, and knew him again—from what my sister said to me, I followed and overtook him, and told him to come back—he said, "Very well, ma'am"—I told him he had given me a bad shilling about a fortnight ago—he said he had not—I said he had—he went back with me—my sister Luey then had a shilling in her hand—the prisoner attempted to take it from her—I did not see whether he took it or not—a constable was sent for, and he was given in custody, with the shilling and the shilling that he had given me—it had been on the shelf since he gave it to me—I cannot say that it was the same shilling—it had been broken and defaced, so that I could not tell it.
Prisoner. I was never in the shop in my life.
LUCY BUDD . I am the sister of the last witness—on 8th March, the prisoner came, asked for half a pint of porter, and gave me a shilling—I told him it was a bad one—I had sever seen him before—I called my sister, and he ran away directly he saw her come—she went alter him, and he cane back—I had the shitting in my hand—he said, "Let me look at it"—he snatched it out of my hand and broke it—he threw one piece on the ground, and I had the rest—I kept them till my father came in, and I gave them to him—I saw the constable receive them—the prisoner gave me one penny for the beer; that was when I told him the shilling was bad, before he ran away.
Prisoner. Q. When I snatched the shilling out of your hand I gave it you back again? A. No; you threw one piece away and put the other on the counter—I do not remember saying at the station that my sister thought you were the man.
COURT. Q. Does he work at the Docks? A. No; he is a hawker.
Prisoner's Defence. It does not stand to reason that a man should go in and get one broken up, and then go in three or four weeks afterwards and get another broken up; what the witnesses have been saying is all false.
GUILTY.**†— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JANE BELL . I live at the Star beersbop, Webber-street, kept by my nephew, George Kingsmills—on Wednesday night, 26th February, Green came in with another person whom I could not swear to; but I believe it was Tarvoul—I am quite positive as to Green—he asked ma for some ale—I served him, and he gave me a 5s. piece—I had not sufficient change, and I sent Mrs. Carpenter for change for it, and she brought me change—I gave her the crown piece, and gave Green the change; and the two men, and two others who had come in after them and had a pint of ale, went away together—on the following Saturday Mrs. Carpenter gave me back a crown piece, which I found was bad, and afterwards gave it to the constable Collins—I next saw Green, I think, four or five days after the 26th February, in the Holly Branch public-house—I pointed him out to the policeman—I would swear to him.
Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. What do you do at the Star? A. It is in my care; I manage the business for my nephew—no one was in the bar before the prisoner and the other came in—Green appeared to be tipsy—I saw him put some halfpence and a half-sovereign on the counter—he was not helplessly drunk; in fact, I do not think he was tipsy, but only pretending, because be went out very quietly—I do not remamber a little girl coming into the shop or being sent out for anything—I swear Green gave me the 5s. piece on 26th February, and I took for the ale out of it—I sent it in next door by a young man, a bedstead-maker, that uses the house, to get it changed—he did not bring the change back; Mrs. Carpenter did—the other two persons that I mentioned came in directly after the prisoners, while they were drinking the ale, and shook hands with them, and said, "Hallo, captain, are you going on board to-night?" and they said they did not know—I can only swear to one—they did not pay for anything; the four were all drinking the ale together—the change was brought in whilst they were drinking—they had another pint of ale after that, and as soon as they drank it, they went out—they did not sit down at all—I was the only person present when they came in—my nephew was not there.
MR. POLAND. Q. Did you give the crown piece to Mrs. Carpenter? A. No; I sent it in by a customer—the prisoner stood at the bar at the time—the customer is not here—I should know the crown piece again if I saw it—Mrs. Carpenter brought it me back—I knew it to be she same that Green had given me—I could swear to it.
ANN CARPENTER . I live in Webber-street, next door to Mrs. Bell—on Wednesday, 26th February, I went into the Star to give change to Mrs. Bell for a crown piece—I put the crown pieoc in my purse—I saw Green in there; I can swear to him—I kept the crown piece in my purse till the following Saturday—it was mixed with shillings, but no other crowns—on the Saturday I gave it to my husband—he brought it back to me the same day—I then looked at it, and found it was bad—I took it in to Mrs. Bell, and gave it to her; my husband had marked it.
Cross-examined. Q. When did you give it to your husband? A. On Saturday morning about 8 o'clock; he gave it me back about 11—I had kept it in a little port-monnaie, looked in a drawer, and I had the key in my pocket—I put it in the drawer as soon aft I received it—the drawer is always kept locked—it is looked now; the key is on a bunch at home, in a little drawer—a man brought the crown piece to me to change—I could not swear to that man.
RICHARD CARPENTER . My wife gave me crown piece on Saturday, 1st March—I took it to Billingsgate, and gave it in payment for some articles there; they gave it to me back, and I took it back to my wife—I marked it.
Cross-examined. Was that after you had been to Billingsgate? A. Yes.
WILLIAM HALE . I am a fisa-bawker, and live in Pear-street, Waterloo-road—on Monday evening, 3d March, I was at my stall, opposite the Carpenters' Arms beershop, in Lower Marsh, Lambeth—I saw both the prisoners there, a few yards from the beershop—they were on the pavement, about twenty yards from each other—Green beckoned with his finger and walked away, and Tarvoul turned back and went into the Carpenters' Arms—I afterwards saw the constable Collins go into the Carpenters' Arms, and I ran across from my stall, and told him what I had seen—I found Tarvoul there—I had seen Green about before, but did not know his name.
Arms—on 3d March Tarvoul came in and asked for some beer and tobacco; it came to 1 1/2 d.—I served him—he gave me a half-crown in payment—I found it was bad, and told him so—he said, "Is it?"—I sent for a constable and gave him in charge, with the half-crown, after marking it—Hale came in at the time.
JOHN COLLINS (Policeman, L 184). On Monday evening, 3d March, I went to Mrs. Smith's beer shop, and Tarvoul was given into my custody—Mrs. Smith gave me this half-crown (produced)—I found 1d. on him—I received a description from Hale, and took Green, on the 3d March, in the Holly Branch public-house—Mrs. Bell pointed him out to me—the home was full—I told him that he was charged with passing a counterfeit crown—Mrs. Bell showed it to him, and gave it to me—he made no reply—I found on him 4s. 4d. in silver and 3 1/4 d. in copper, all good—I took him about 6 o'clock; it was shortly after 5 when I took Tarvoul.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know it? A. Here is the mark on it; I can swear it is the one I sent to Mrs. Carpenter.
The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read at follows:—Tarvoul says: "I did not know the half-crown was bad; I acknowledge uttering it. I never saw Smith before; he is a perfect stranger to me. I took the half-crown on Saturday night for some wood." Green says: "I never spoke a word to that man; I never saw him before. If I did go into Mrs. Bell's it is unknown to me; and whether I gave her a crown piece or not I do not know.
Tarvoul's Defence. I know nothing of this man; he is a perfect stranger to me. I did not know the half-crown was had.
TARVOUL— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
GREEN— GUILTY .
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
Prisoner. Q. Will you swear that that is the 5s. piece you gave to Mrs. Carpenter? A. Yes; and it is the one you gave me.
The evidence of Ann Carpenter, Richard Carpenter, and John Collins, was read over to them, to which they assented.
Prisoner's Defence. If I knew it was bad, I should have thrown it away. Do you think I should stop there and have two more pints of ale? It had been through five or six different hands.
He was further charged with having been before convicted at this Court, is the name of John Marshall, in January, 1855, when he received a sentence of Eighteen Months' imprisonment; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.**— Four Years Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
he entered the service on Saturday, 29th March—whatever he told was to be entered and accounted for to me, and with reference to the money be was to account to me for it, and put it in the cash-book—he had been told that by Mr. Lange in my presence, and I told him too—I recollect leaving the prisoner in charge of the premises on the 30th March, from 2 o'clock in the Afternoon till 9 at night—when I came home at 9, I asked him if he had said anything—he said, "No"—I looked in the book and found no entry—he did not account to me on that night for 1s. or 2s. 6d.—I have seen the pocket-handkerchief; the price of that was 2s. 6d.; it had a ticket on in for that amount—the scarf was 1s.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Mr. Lange has another shop, has he not? A. Yes; at Trinity-square, Tower-hill—he does not attend to the shop at Rotherhithe—I do not know whether I was to have left—the arrangement about the prisoner coming into the service was made between him and Mr. Lange.
CHRISTIAN REINSON . I am a carpenter on board the barque Oxford—I saw the prisoner on 30th March at the door of his master's shop—he said, "Is there anything you wish to buy to-day"—I went in and bought a necktie—I paid 1s. for it to the prisoner—this is it (produced.)
Cross-examined. Q. Was there anybody else there at the time? A. No, no other shopman.
JOHN MOSS . I am a seaman on board a barge at the Commercial Docks—on 30th March I went into the prosecutor's shop at Rotherhithe—I saw the prisoner there, and bought this silk handkerchief of him for 3s., he wanted 3s. 6d.
Cross-examined. Q. You took the handkerchief back afterwards, did you not? A. Yes; to have it hemmed, and I left it there with the prisoner and came back for it at 6 o'clock.
DANIEL LANGE . I am a draper, residing at 5, Trinity-square, Tower-hill—the prisoner came into my service on 29th March—he was told he was to enter every article he sold into a book directly he received the money, and put the money in the till—he has not accounted to me for the sum of 1s., 2s. 6d., or 3s., for a handkerchief—the price of the handkerchief was 2s. 6d.
Cross-examined. Q. You do not reside at Rotherhithe? A. No, it was the prisoner's duty to take charge of that shop—the other young man, who had been there, was not to leave; he was to be clerk there as well as in the other shop, to look over the things—the prisoner entered my service at 1l. a week, and five per cent, commission—he was to account to me or my clerk every day—it was not understood that he was to deduct his wages from sums that he received—I never asked him for this 1s. and 3s.—he had to keep the books—I looked over the goods every day or every other day—I went to Rotherhithe every other day, when I could spare time, if they were busy, I should be there every day—the prisoner was given into custody by me for Embezzling this money.
HENRY KELLY (Policeman, M 55). On Tuesday week, 1st April, I took the prisoner into custody—I told him that Mr. Lange accused him of selling some goods and not entering them in the books or accounting for the money—he stated that he did sell some handkerchiefs, but it was only 3s. 6d., and the reason he kept the money was, he wanted to have a shilling in his pocket—I searched him and found this handkerchief upon him.
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
MR. PALMER conducted the Prosecution.
RUTH BRADBEER . I am the will of Joseph Bradbeer—our house is in the parish of St. Mary, Lambeth—on 11th March last I was awoke by a policeman at a quarter to 5 in the morning—on coming downstairs I found the parlour window broken—some person had entered; taken a coat, shawl, ten teaspoons, a dozen knives and forks, or it might have been more, and a curtain, which us attached to the window—I used some of the knives and forks at 10 o'clock the night before for supper—they were placed on the window-sill in a basket—the shawl and coat were hanging up behind the door on a peg—I have seen half a down teaspoons and three forks since—these are them (produced)—I bought these two forks the day before, from a person next door—this one I have had ten years—this spoon I have had quite as long as the fork—those I bought of a man about three weeks before the robbery, and used them daily—I saw these things at a wardrobe shop facing the Victoria Theatre, where they buy second-hand clothes and different things—the forks were at a marine-store dealer's—I saw those on the same day as I saw the others; the Friday after the robbery—the curtain was with the spoons—this is my shawl (produced)—I know it by having it dyed, and by the plaid I see in it—this is my curtain—I saw it the evening before the robbery—I fastened the window myself at a quarter-past 12, and bolted all the doors—no glass was broken at that time—I know the prisoner by his coming to my place and sleeping with his father—his father was a lodger for sixteen weeks—the prisoner was often to and fro during that time—the father often brought him to sleep there—I saw him frequently—he came to me last Friday, the 4th, and said that he had heard that I had lost these things; that he had bought them of a man and woman, and he felt very unhappy after he had heard they belonged to me, as I had been so kind to him and his father; and he came to give himself up, and hoped I would forgive him—I said I could not think of doing that, I wanted my shawl, which was a present, and I set great value on it—he said he would give me ten shillings to buy a new shawl.
Prisoner. Q. The first words that you said were, "Hallo, what do you do here?" A. Yes; I did not tell you what I had lost—you said you were very unhappy—you must have known this shawl belonged to me.
ANN GARRATT . I am the wife of Charles Garratt, of 17, Webber-street, Southwark—we keep a marine-store shop—I saw the prisoner first at the station-house—I did not know him before then—I never saw him before 11th March—he came to me about that time, and said be had got some knives and forks to sell—I asked him if they were his own, and whether he got them honestly—he said, "Yes; particularly honest;" he was out of employment, and he was very sorry that he had got them to sell; he was very sorry to do it—he said they were his—he asked me 1s. 6d. for them, and I gave him 1s.—those that I gave to the police are the same I had from him—I did not buy the curtain and the coat—this was about 11 o'clock in the morning.
SAMUEL WATTS (Policeman, L 77). The prisoner was given into my charge on 4th April by Mrs. Bradbeer—I told him the charge—he said he acknowledged selling the goods—I asked him what goods—he said, "Mrs. Bradbeer's knives and forks, and curtain"—he said he did not pledge the shawl, he got a female that he knew to pledge it, he bought all the goods of a man and woman opposite the Olive Branch public-house, New Cut—he said he knew nothing about breaking into the house whatever.
Prisoner's Defence. I have learnt a trade since I have been a convict. I have had four years' imprisonment, and twelve months for robbery, and ever since I came out of prison I have been at work. I believe this policeman can say that he has seen me coming from work at half-past 6 in the evening. I was working for Mr. Davis, and for a gentleman who is now in Horse-monger-lane. I have not associated with any bad characters. I turned over a new leaf twelve months before I came home. I gave myself up, I never had a better friend than Mrs. Bradbeer. My father bad been out of work sixteen weeks, and she kept him, aad she gave me victuals while I was in the hospital I saw Mr. Davis the other day, and he said be would give me a character.
GUILTY**— Confined Twelve Months.
500. CHARLES BASSETT (38), HENRY STOKES (30), HENRY TIMOTHY GRAY (63), and JAMES KEMPSTER (46), Stealing 5 tons weight of rope, 2cwt of spun yarn, 1 cwt. of lead lines, and 1cwt. of manilla, of the London Ropery Company (Limited), the masters of Bassett and Stokes.
MESSRS. METCALFE and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE HOUNSELL . I am a clerk in the employ meal of the London Bopery Company (Limited)—their warehouse is at Rotherhithe, and the manufactory at the Jamaica Level, Bermondsey—the prisoners Bassett and Stokes were in our employment; Stokes as foreinau and Baasett, as under-foreman—they both lived on the premises in Jamaica Level—Stokes had the keys of the place—on 20th February last I was shown a quantity of rope by the police-officer Hughes at the police-station—I have identified it as the property of the Company—we have also some rope that was in the possession of Mr. Vane and Mr. Willis—I identify that also.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. (For Gray). Q. Who was the manager of this Company at this time? A. Mr. Morgan; and he is still—I keep the Company's books at the works—I am aware that the Company have lost some 2,000l. worth of rope—I arrived at that fact by the aid of an accountant—we went through the whole of the books since the last stock-taking—I do not know whether the Company gave a bill of sale on their property a short time ago—I am the clerk, And do not know what they do in that way—not long back they sent aa amount of rope to the City Road—that was a long time after the 2,000l. which we lost—that tranaaetion was entered in the books—the manager is not here.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Has the manager been suspended by the Company? A. Yes—be is under an agreement with them—he must remain their trade manager for another month, though his powers of buying and selling have been annulled by advertisement in the Times—he cannot do any work at present—I do not know whether he drinks very hard—I do not know anything about him—notice has been given to the public that he is suspended from buying and selling.
are a stable, in Smith's-place, Dockhead, with broad folding doors, at which a cart can go in—the shop is some distance from there, in another street—he keeps a small shop in Charles-Street about a hundred yards from there, and carries on a coal and chandlery business—At the other place there are two horses, I think, and a cart—there is no appearance of any dealing in rope being carried on there—I saw Kempster peter when I went there—I told him I had a warrant to search his premises for some rope—he replied,"I have got no rope, and never had"—he went with me to the stable, and unlocked it when I asked him—behind the cart there was a heap of grass mats—I removed them, and between two beer barrels and the wall, there were two coils of rope—I called his attention to it—I said, "This is rope, yon know; where did you get it from?" he said, "I took it from a man who owed me some money;" I said, "Who is he?" he said, "Don't know;" I said, "Where does he live?" he said, "I do not know;" I said, "If you will give me his name and address I will leave an officer in charge of the place and you, while I go and make inquiries;" he said, "I know nothing about him;" I then said, "I must take you in custody; "which I did, and took him and the rope to the station—that is the rope that I showed to Mr. Hounsell—Stokes saw it at the police-court—we went before a Magistrate, and Stokes was there as a witness to identify the rope, and did so, and then the case was remanded for further inquiries.
ALFRED SANDELL . I am a labourer, living at 19, Edward-street, Dock-head—I know Kempster's place, at the back of the Catholic Chapel, Bermondsey—it is a coal shed and chandler's shop—about half-past 7 in the evening of 18th February, I saw Stokes and Bassett go to Kempeter's shop—they were in there about a minute—Kempster came out with them—law them separate—Bassett and Stokes went towards their own home, the ropery works—next morning, about a quarter to 9, I saw Kempster's van coming by the shop, loaded with rope—it was driven by a man named Ward—I followed it to the George public-house, Commercial-road—Bassett was following 500 yards, I dare say, behind the van.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. (For Kempster). Q. Have you lived any length of time in the neighbourhood? A. Yes; ever since I can recollect; and Kempster has been living there as long as I can recollect—his wife manages the chandler's shop and the coal shed; and be has a stable in Smith's-place, and a van, and cart, and two horses—he attends to business as a carman—it was some weeks before I said anything about this—I do not know whether it was as much as three weeks—I did not say anything about it till the detective called on me; I think it was three weeks afterwards.
Bassett. Q. What was your intention in following the van that morning? A. Because Ward asked me if I would come with him—I was following the van myself—I was not 500 yards off—I was not 40 yards behind you.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Were you behind him? A. No; I was on the other side of the pavement, walking very near, even with him; I was nearly 500 yards behind the cart.
JOHN WARD . I live at 3, Fly-court, Dockhead—on 18th February I was working for Kempster, as carman—I took the cart with some rope that evening—my missus, between 7 and 8 o'clock, told me to take the cart and load some furniture between 8 and 9—I was then in the shop—I had come in and asked for the key—in consequence of that, I took the cart to the Green Man public-house, which is right facing the warehouse of the Ropery Company—I waited there about twenty minutes—my orders were to wait there—at the end of the twenty minutes Bassett came to me, and told me to back in
when he unlocked the gate—he did not tell me what gate, or point out any gate—I did not know what gate—I saw the factory gate open a few minutes afterwards, and I backed in—I did what Bassett told me to do, because I was ordered to go down there, and wait till some one came to me, and to obey their directions—when I had backed in, I and Bassett loaded up about a ton and a half of rope, and then he told me it was too late to take it away that night, I had better take it round to Kempster's stables that night, and take it away in the morning—I look it to the stable—I did not see my master that night: I did the next morning, and asked him where it was to go to—he said he did not know, he believed to the George, in Commercial-road, and wait till tome one came to me—I drove it down to the George, and a man, whom I know now to be Evans, came to me, and told me to follow him—we went down Commercial-road, and turned down into Broad-street, Ratcliff—Evans went into the Stone Stairs public-house at the corner, and called Gray out, and a man named Bigford—then they went into a shop opposite Mr. Vane's or Mr. Willis's, I won't be sure which—then they told the young man to pick what he liked out of the van, and he ultimately bought some—I handed it out, and it was taken into the shop—then we went to another shop, and they would not buy it, and then we went to Mr. Vane's and the rest was all taken there—Bigford went with us to the other shop, and waited in the public-house until they came out—then I unloaded the rope, and came home with the van—no one told me to come home—when I got home I saw my master—he asked me where I had been, and I told him—he did not say anything then—I have, at other times, seen rope is Kempster's premises, in the place where they kept the Tans and carts—I have seen about three tons there, not often—I saw it when I first went to work there, which was two or three months before Christmas; and then I and Mr. Kempster took it down to Mr. Leary's, into his shed, and left it there—Mr. Kempater went with me then—that was after I had been there about a month, I should think; somewhere about November or December—there was none left in the shed then, that I am aware of—it was lying there when I first went—when I got to Leary's, besides Leary and Kemster I saw Bassett, and the man I believe to be Stokes; but I should not like to swear to him—they came out of the coffee-shop, which Leary keeps—I do not know the name of the street—I should not like to say it was Stokes who came out with Bassett—I think one was Bassett—they went down to the abed, unloaded the cart there, and I brought it away—they helped to unload this load of rope that I had taken—the man I took to be Stokes did not unload; but he was standing not far off—I left the van for my master.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Kempster is a carman, and drives himself occasionally, does he not? A. Yes—he is out from home a great deal, and in his absence his wife takes orders—I saw Kempster the morning after the rope was taken to the stable—when I asked him the name of the man who was to come to me, he odd he did not know, for he did not see the man—I returned about 1 o'clock in the day, and saw Kempster—he asked me what had made me so long, and I told him where I had been to—he asked me who came to me, and I said I had been waiting at the shop to unload—I told him I did not know the man who came to me—I went into Kempster's service about two or three months before—when I first went, there was rope on the premises, and it remained there about a month, or it might be a little longer, before any of it was taken away—Kempster then had one van, and two carts and horses.
JURY. Q. Was the rope exposed, or covered up with anything, during
the whole of the month? A. Lying open, with tome grass mats over it, which, I believe, were given to Kempster—he did not sell mats.
COURT. Q. Did they cover the rope? A. Yes; very nearly all over—any one could see, on entering the shed, that there was a quantity of rope there.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Were there any beer barrels? A. I believe there were two—it was in front of the beer barrels; stowed alongside of thern—the yard gates do not lock; they are often open; they have to be open when we shove the van or anything in—there are two gates to the shed; they open direct into the street—we could not open the one without opening the other, if we were going to put anything in—they are generally kept locked, except when a van or cart, or anything is going in—this is quite an enclosed place.
THOMAS MARSHALL . I live at 41, Heath-street, Stepney—I have known Gray some time—on 19th February 1 bought 10cwt. 3qrs. and some pounds of rope of him—I paid him 18l. 9s. 9d. for it—I have about 7cwt. of it left, which I showed to Mr. Hounsell—this is the receipt Gray gave me—(Read: "February 19th, 1862.—Mr. Willis, bought of Mr. Gray, 10cwt. 3qrs. 141bs. of cordage, at 34s.—18l. 9s. 9d.—Paid, H. T. Gray.")
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q, Who wrote this receipt? A. A person that was with Mr. Gray—I paid him with three 5l. notes—I cannot say whether the rest was in small change or half sovereigns—I did not know who it was with Mr. Gray, nor have I since ascertained—he did not hand the money to Gray in my presence, I did not see what he did with it—they went out together.
EDWARD MARRIOTT VANE . I live at Bromley-street, Stepney, and assist my father in carrying on business as a ship-rigger—on 19th February, about 10 o'clock in the morning, as near as I can say, Gray came alone, and said he had a quantity of rope to sell, and wanted us to purchase it—I told him we had bought largely, and did not want any rope, and had also entered into contracts besides—he said the rope was made for a person that had disappointed him, and my mther then called me into his office, and, after some conversation with him, he said, "Well, there is poor old Gray; he appears to be very much broken down in life; what does he want?"—I explained what he wanted, and then told Gray that if he liked to bring the rope I would look at it—I then asked him his price—he first wanted us to go and look at it—I did not ask him where it was—I told him we would not go and look at it; that if he thought fit to bring it we would look at it and value it, and tender him a price for it; that, in consequence of his condition, we should feel inclined to buy it of him—he then told us the price was 36s.—I told him we could not give any such price—I know nothing further of it but that when I returned at a quarter to I, I saw the rope there—I then saw this bill and receipt (produced,) and saw the price which was given for it—I saw about 12cwt. of new rope and upon yarn.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Was any one with Gray at this time? A. No one—I have not known him some time but my father has for many years.
JOHN VANE . I assist my father, in Marion-street, Batcliff—I was present on 19th February, when Gray brought the rope—he made out the bill and receipted it, and I paid him—I wrote out this cheque for 19l. 4s.—no one was with him when he came—he did bring the bill already written out—he wrote it himself in my presence—(Cheque read: "Messrs. Prescot, Grote,
and Co., pay Mr. Gray, or bearer, 19l. 4s. Indorsement. H. Gray." (Bill read: "No. 1, Prospect-place, Cambridge-heath—19th February, 1862—Mr. Vane, bought of H. T. Gray, to cordage, 12cwt. at 32s. 19l. 4s., settled same time. Paid H. T. Gray" On a stamp).
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Have you any experience with respect to rope and cordage? A. None whatever—I have only been in the business twelve months.
JOHN BIGFORD . I live at 11, Rose-lane, Commercial-road East, and am a dealer in tar and other articles—Gray called on me in February, and said there was a ropemaker over the water who was in difficulty, and had some rope which he wanted to turn into ready money—he asked me if I knew any one who was likely to buy it—I said, "I do business for Mr. Willis; he is a ready-money gentleman; he always pays ready money, and if he wants any I dare say he will buy some of you," and then he went up to see—I spoke to the foreman before the rope came, and introduced Gray to Mr. Willie's foreman—he came again the morning that the rope came, 19th February—he walked up, and said the rope would be there about 10 or 11 o'clock, and walked up to the Stone Stairs public-house, opposite Mr. Willis's—the rope came, and Evans with it—I do not recollect who fetched Gray out; very likely it was Evans—I think I went to Willis's door and said, "Well, you can see Mr. Gray and do business, because I know nothing about rope"—I then went to the public-house, and Gray came there to me afterwards, and gave me 18s. or 19s.; 19s. I believe—that was half the commission which he said he would give me for my introduction.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did you see him with a cheque in his hand? A. Yes; he gave it to Evans—I could not swear to the cheque; I did not know the amount of it—I could not be positive, but to the best of my knowledge, this is it—I have known him a good many years—he sells rope on commission.
FRANCIS LEARY . I am a general dealer, and keep a coffee-house at 175, Rotherhithe-street—Mr. Vare keeps the Ship public-house, Queen-street, Rotherhithe—in December last he, Bassett and Stokes, came to sell me some new rope—Bassett spoke—he said he had a quantity of new rope for sale, and it laid at Dockhead, at the back of the Catholic chapel—I know that now as being Kempster's place—he made an appointment with me to meet him at the Sugar Loaf, Dockhead, to look at it—I went there, and went to Kempster's stables, where I saw about two tons of new rope, as near as I can calculate—Bassett went to Kempster's shop and got the keys to open the stable door—on inspecting the rope Bassett asked 60l. for it—I offered 46l.; he refused that, and I gave him a week to consider—a night or two after that they all three called on me again, and Bassett said they had come down to do business with me one way or the other, they wished to dispose of the rope—they agreed to take 46l.—they were to bring it down between 9 and 10 the following morning, 10th December—the next morning, between 9 and 10, it came by a van and a cart—a man, whom I do not know, and a lad were with the cart—Mr. Vare paid the 46l. to Stokes, and Stokes gave this receipt—this, in the name of Wood, is the one written by Stokes—he wrote this bill and receipt in my presence—I sold the rope for 58l. 16s., and it has gone abroad—(Receipt read: "10th December, 1861; received from Mr. Francis Leary the sum of 46l., for a quantity of lines and cordage. Received, H. Wood.")
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. When you went to the stable, did you see Kempster there at all? A. No.
WILLIAM VARE . I keep the Ship public-house, Queen-street, Rotherhithe—in November last a man named Evans called on me about a purchase of rope—I afterwards went with him to Leary's, where he showed me a sample of rope—a month after that Stokes and Bassett came to me—I did not ask them their names; they did not call themselves by any name to me—they said they had about two tons of rope for sale—they both spoke together—they said they made it, and they asked me to buy it—I said I did not understand rope myself, but I would introduce them to a friend—I introduced them to Mr. Leary, and heard an appointment made with him to meet for the purpose of seeing the rope at Dockhead—I saw Mr. Leary when he came back from there, and had an appointment to meet them on the evening of the 9th—they came on 9th—I saw the bargain made for the rope, and heard that it was to be brought on the following morning—it was brought next morning, in a van and cart, by a man and a boy—I advanced 46l., and saw this bill and receipt given by Stokes.
stokes. Q. Did not Mr. Evans bring me to your house that night? A. On the first commencement of it?
COURT. Q. Did Evans carry on the conversation? A. No, Stokes—I had never seen the two men before—they spoke to me; not Evans—Evans brought the sample of rope and introduced the two men to me, but I never saw him afterwards.
JAMES TURNER . I am a shipbroker, of 79, Great Tower-street—I have known Gray since November last; he came to me in December and asked me if I would buy any rope—I said if it was cheap I would—he said that the price was 36s.—I said that, before I could buy it, I must send some person competent to judge of its quality, to look at it, and I sent Mr. Robert Gilchrist to examine it—Gray and Gilchrist met at my office, and went over to look at it, and then Gilchrist came back and reported—Gray was not present then—Gray afterwards came back again, and I offered 30s. for it—he would not to take less than 34s.; he then came down to 32s. and then took 30s.—he had told me it was to be seen at Benmondsoy—this is the card he gave me to view it. Read: "J. Kempster, carman, 4, Charles-street, Parker's-road, Dockhead, bottom of Tooley-street. Goods carefully removed by spring van or cart. Please let the bearer see the cordage, J. T. Gray, 4th December, 1861."
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Was Evans present? A. No; I never saw him in my life—I know that Gray deals on commission—I have been in the trade thirty years—I am not a pretty good judge of rope—I have been in the shipping trade—I did not exercise any judgment about the price—Gilchrist saw the rope—I told Gray I should like to see it if I had a customer, and it was in consequence of that that this card came to me—Gray had urged me very much about his terms, and wanted me to let him have a commission—he said he generally had one—he appeared to be an honest man, and I thought he was acting as a commission agent—I asked him if there was anything wrong or the slightest suspicion about it, as it was rather a low price, and he said that there was not; that it was simply the ordinary case of a man wanting to dispose of an article that he wanted to raise money on.
ROBERT SHAFTO GILCHRIST . I live at Northampton-villas, Tottenham, and am a sail maker—early in December last, I went to Mr. Turner's counting-house, in Great Tower-street, and there saw Gray—Mr. Turner
said "This is Mr. Gray; he will take yon to where the rope is," and. I went with him to Bermondsey, and found the rope in a stable, which I have since found to be Kempster's—I examined it and came away with Gray, and the other two parties, whose names did not transpire, a short distance, and there left them—one of those parties joined us in Tower-street; he accosted Mr. Gray—he was a stout man, whose name I have since heard is Evans, and afterwards another man joined us, who I do not know—he was standing by a public-house, and we all went down, and I examined the rope—I said that it was worth 46s. to 50s. all through and some of it 60s. a cwt.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Was it very heavily tarred? A. Some of it—I should think rope in that state would be more difficult to dispose of than ordinary rope in a proper state—Gray was the person who took me there, and the stout man answered me about the price—I cannot say that he appeared to be the master, and to exercise authority over the rope—then I spoke, Evans answered me.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Was any part of the rope you saw called spun yarn? A. Yes; a few cwt. of it, I should think—there was nothing particular about the manufacture of it.
JAMES MORRISON GILCHRIST . I am the captain of a merchant vessel, and live in Willoughby-terrace, Stockwell—I am the brother of the last witness—I went with him in the early part of December to Kempster's shop and stable—the first day I went I saw no one but Mrs. Kemspter—I had some conversation with her—I did not see any rope on that occasion—about two days afterwards I was in Tower-street, and a strange man came up to me—I do not know now who he is; he is not here—in consequence of what he said, I went over to Kempeter's stable with him, and saw a quantity of rope; I think from three to fire tons, by the appearance—it was in a stable or cart shed, covered over with bags, mats, and some stable refuse, straw—from what I saw of it I formed an idea that it was the make of the London Ropery Company—I could not be certain, but I was so sure that I intended telling the Company as soon as I saw them—I have frequently handled quantities of their rope—I served my time with a rope maker, previous to going to sea, and I understand it perfectly—I was called to Liver-pool for five weeks, and after I returned Mr. Spratt, the Company's traveller, called on me, and I communicated what I had seen.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. You did not see Kempster at all? A. No.
Stokes. Q. How can you tell the London Ropery's manufacture from any other? A. They have been manufacturing some very poor rope; that is the way I know it—they have lately, for the last year or two, and even in Mr. Morgan's time, put a large quantity of tar in it and a great deal of Russian yarn—I found both these things in it—it is rope of an inferior quality—I know other persons who use a great quantity of Russian yarn in their rope, but not of so inferior a kind.
HENRY SMITH . I am a sergeant of the detective police—on 10th March, I saw Stokes at a public-house close to the Company's works—I called him out and said I wanted to speak to him—I told him my name was Smith, that I was a sergeant of the detective police, and I wanted to ask him some questions relating to seme rope which had been stolen from over the way, but he could do as he thought proper about answering—I then said, "I have been told you were down at Mr. Kempster's on the evening of 18th February, with Bassett"—he said, "No; I was not; I was never there in my life"—I said, "Do you know Kempster?"—he said, "Yes; I never
saw him till I went up to give evidence against him at the police-court"—I asked if he had ever employed Mr. Kempster to remove any rope, or anything from the factory—he said, "No"—I said, "I have been told, that about two tons was taken out by Kempster's van on the evening of 18th February"—he said, "No, that could not be; if one coil of it had been gone off the premises I must have missed it"—I told him I did not belive the account he gave me of it; I must take him into custody for stealing, with Bassett, a quantity of rope, the property of the London Ropery Company—(Bassett was not present)—he said, "The Company are rogues and thieves; they have robbed themselves, and now they want to lay it upon me, and the books will prove it; there was a great deal more went out than ever came in on the premises; which they know"—I was on the premises on the previous Saturday, the 8th, and he then put to the gates and showed at how he fastened them at night—he said he locked up at 6 o'clock, and always took charge of the keys himself every night—on 12th March I saw Gray—I followed him from his home into the City—I told him, I "am a sergeant of police, and I want to ask you some questions about some ropes which has been stolen, the property of the London Ropery Company"—I asked where he got the rope from that he sold on the 19th to Mr. Marshall, of Broad-street, Ratcliff—he said he had not sold I—I said, "Where did you get it from?"—he said, "From a man named Wilson or Evans"—I asked him what business Mr. Wilson or Evans was, and where he lived—he said he did not know; he should knew him again if he saw him; he met him sometimes in the City—I said, "I have seen the receipt you gave Mr. Marshall for the money for the rope—he said, MI did not sell it; a man named Bigfbrd sold itn—I asked what business Bigford was, and when he lived—he said in Horseferry-street or Rose-street, St. George's-in-the-East—I asked where he got the rope from which he sold to Vane the same morning—he said from the same man, Wilson or Evans—he said Bigfbrd sold it, and received the money—I said, "That can't be; there is your name on the receipt"—he said, "Bigford sold it, and not me"—I then told him I did not believe the account he had given me, and I should take him into custody for stealing this rope, in connexion with men named Bassett and Stokes—he afterwards said thst he had sold it by commission, and had 19s. for his trouble—I found this card on him, "W. Hinchiffe, wholesale dealer in corn flour; Kempster, Parkers-road, Dockhead;" on the badt of it is, "4, Charles-street, Dockhead, total, 163cwt. 30th November, 1861, Clapton, Lea-bridg"—I also found on him this letter. Read: "18th February. Dear Sir, I have a purchaser for six to eight tons of rope; I hear the same man has some on hand; look out, and let me know at once. James Turner."
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. You knew Evans, do you not? A. No; I know there is such a man—I do not know thai his name is Thomas Wilson Evans—I never heard him called so—I have only heard of Thomas Evans—I have never seen this bill until now—I have been the officer conducting a portion of this case—Gray did not tell me that Evans was employed by Pickering, Dyer, and Co. of Bow-common—when he mentioned the man who sold it, he said Wilson or Evans, not Wilson Evans—I am quite sure about that—he said he received 19s. for his trouble—he did not say anything half commission—I am quite positive that he said he always locked up and kept the keys—that was on the Saturday, when I went on purpose to make myself acquainted with the premises.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Have you been eudeavouring to find Evans? A. Yes I have, but have not been able—I have been to some places, and Hughes has been to others, where it was at all likely to find him.
JOHN TIMOTHY HUGHES . (Re-examined.) I apprehended Bassett on 10th March, about 9 in the evening, at the Company's premises—I said to him, "My name is Hughes"—he said, "I know; the detective"—I said, "I want some conversation with you respecting some rope that has been stolen from the Company's premises; I must ask you some questions about it; you can please yourself about answering them, do you know a man named Kempster?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Did not you assist in loading some rope into Kempster's van on these premises a short time ago?"—he said, "No, never"—I said I find you were seen over the water with Kempster's van, containing some rope some time ago"—he said, "I know nothing about it; I don't know what you are talking about"—I said, "I must take you into custody for being concerned with others in stealing some rope belonging to your employers;" and I took him—after the second examination I saw Gray—I was present when he was apprehended, and about two days afterwards he sent, and wanted to see me—he was out on bail—I went to his house, and saw him—he said, "I wish to tell you all about this rope affair, and all I know about it"—I said, "It is unfortunate you did not say all about it at first, when you were apprehended"—he said, "I was cautioned not to say anything"—I said, "That was not telling you to say what was not true"—he then told me that a man named Tom Evans brought him a sample rope, and took him to Kempster's stable to see the rope; that Evans sold it; and received the money for it, and that he (Gray) only received 19s. of it.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Did he give you any information about Evans? A. Yes; he told me where he might be found—I do not know Evans; I have heard of him—I do not know that his name is Thomas Wilson Evans—I heard Gray tell Sergeant Smith something about Wilson, but Evans was not mentioned then; I am quite sure of that—he might have metioned it; he walked before me to the station—Gray has been giving information to the prosecution throughout these proceedings, doing every thing he can to assist us—he has told me since, that conversation, that he had been to Kempster, and where Kempster was—he made no concealment of these facts since he sent for me; I had no former conversation with him—I did not hear all the conversation, because they walked some few yards before me—Gray has been trying to find Evans for us, in company with Mr. Elder, who knows him.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. When you went to Kempster's house, on 20th February, were you in uniform? A. No; I announced the position that I held; I had been on duty in that neighbourhood for years—I know Kempster by sight, but did not know his name or where he lived—I did not know him as a very long resident in that part of Bermondsey—I remember seeing him about—he did not say anything about spun yarn, in reply to any of my questions, or refer to anything like yarn—there is a wooden partition between the places where the carts and the horses are kept—the same doors do not open into both—both the folding doors open into where the rope was, and where the cart and van were—Kempster was admitted to bail.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. After Evans had got out of the way, did Gray say that he would tell you all that he knew about it? A. Yes; I had been after Evans before that, at places where I heard he was at work, and I had been to his house in the middle of the night—I found that he had been travelling with samples for some manure works; but he had not been there since this transaction.
of that I went to Horsemonger-lane Gaol and saw them—I saw Bassett first; Stokes was in a separate cell—I put down the same evening, as near as I could remember, what passed between as—these (produced) are the notes I made—I asked him what he sent for me for—he began by saying, "I have been eleven years on the premises and never had anything found against me"—I asked him if he had nothing else to say—he said he had only been concerned in the two lots discovered, and that a short time ago a man came to the works and induced him to send some goods to Mr. Leary—he did not know whether he or Stokes first accepted the proposal, but Stokes could tell us more about it; it was a long time for a man to remember—the money for the goods sent to Mr. Leary was received by the strange man, whose name he did not know—he either said "We" or "I"—I believe he said, "I never received any of the money, nor saw the man again;" that the goods last taken away had been sent to Mr. Vane's and another man's; "but I know of nothing else except 5 cwt. of twine; that is everything that has ever gone out by night; but as to anything being sent off by day, I could not say, as I am always in the rope ground, and could not tell what went in or out"—I said I knew what he was saying was incorrect; that we held the receipt for the money—he then said, "It is a mistake; I mean the last lot and not the first, that I did not receive the money for"—I told him it was no good wasting my time in telling me what was incorrect—he said he told me the truth and nothing but the truth, and all that he knew—I said he had no business telling lies and making statements he could not prove; that was all with him—then I went to Stokes' cell—he said, "I have never been concerned in taking away any goods: on the evening of the 18th, I was out with my wife till half-past 9; when I came home I found that all was not right, and in the morning I found the rope house all in a scurry;" that was the expression, I believe, meaning confusion; "and missed some of the goods, I then spoke to Bassett about it, and about three or four hours afterwards he said, "I sent the goods away"—Stokes said he did not say anything about it, because he wished to save Bassett from trouble; that was the only time such a thing occurred; everything that went out he had entered—he said he had put a great quantity of money into the Company's pocket—I asked him who authorized him to do so.
COURT. Q. What? asked him who authorized him to put money into the Company's pocket? A. He meant by weights being incorrect—I do not remember the exact words—I believe he said, "By false weights"—I said, "Who authorized you to do that?"—he said, "No one; but it was for the good of the Company"—I asked him if he had suspected any one—he said he suspected Mr. Morgan; he knew nothing except that, a month ago, Mr. Morgan had given orders to send up two men with needles, to pack rope at Fresh Wharf—that is not part of our present premises; it is by the side of London Bridge—he said that he sent up two men, Charles Bassett and Alexander Dry—they were there a day and a half, and that was the only lot of goods that had gone out by night—that was on the 18th.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did he say what he had for that lot of goods that went out on the 18th? A. He mentioned some sum; I believe it was 10l.—I told him he had not spoken the truth, and I could not waste my time any longer—he begged me to think of his wife and children—I said, "I will do so as soon as you think of the Company"—nothing more of importance passed.
Bassett. Q. When you came to Horsemonger-lane, what was the first word you asked me? A. You sent for me—I said, "You have sent for me, what
have you got to say?"—I have no recollection of your asking me to be as merciful as I could on account of your confinement—your words were that you would make a clean breast of it, and did not care who it would implicate so long as you found out who it was—I did not tell you I would get you your liberty if you would make a clean breast of it, or anything like it—when I found you were not speaking the truth I went away—I believe you said, "I know of nothing else except a lot of twine," or "5 cwt of twine."
Stokes. Q. When I told you a great deal of money had been put into the Company's pocket by false weights, did not I tell you it was you gave me orders to put 10 per cent on all goods that went aboard ship? A. No; I did not—(The witness's deposition being read, stated, "I never told Stokes to put on false weights; I admit he told me of it, and I reported it. I do not recollect saying anything about 10 per cent")
COURT. Q. Do you mean you had heard he had put on false weights before this happened, or that he told you of it in the gaol? A. Not in the goal; he had told me of it before any of this happened—some goods were being weighed at the time, and he told me he was in the habit of occasionally, in shipping orders, making the weight a little more than it actually was, and I reported it upon a lot that was then weighed; nothing further came of it—I did not say one day, when Stokes was weighing a lot at the scales, "I think, Stokes, you had better put some weights on those, for I do not think they weigh those at the Arsenal"—I did not say anything of that sort.
Stokes. If I never live another moment, you said so; you told me all throughout to do it; did not you put four cwt. on two tons of goods that went to Barking? A. I can produce the receipts; Mr. Hewitt weighed them; I sent the weights perfectly correct.
Stokes. He put four cwt. on two tons, and said, "Weigh every coil separate, and make a mistake in the addition, so that if it should be found out I can copy off every weight, and send it down and say it was a mistake in the adding up." Witness. The weights were all correct that I sent to Mr. Hewitt; I will admit there was a mistake in the adding up—I was aware when the bill went in that it was not correctly added up—some of the coils came back; that did not lead to the bill being set right—I sent down the weight of each coil separately—I can show it on my letters—I gave the weight at the office—I did not send the original bill; but I wrote a note to Mr. Hewitt—there were about 18 lbs, over in one, and 18 lbs. under in another, so that it came equivalent, and a little in his favour—I put down the weights correctly, but did not add it up right, and then that bill went to the office—(The witness was twice asked the question by the Court, whether he added the bill up wrong intentionally, but gave no answer.)—Stokes first of all told me that he thought it would be practicable, and I mentioned it at the office, for I had only recently come up to London—I did not know what were the rules of the trade—I was only a clerk—I will admit that I did so to that lot; but I reported it the same as I did a previous lot.
Stokes. When he found I would not put weights on, he actually told me to make no notes, and he told a lad also the same. Witness. I told him to put no weights on any ship's notes—it is not a usual thing—it is never done in any other house in the trade—when these goods were taken away there was nothing like ten or twelve tons of rope sent away.
Bassett. Q. How can you tell that the two coils found at Kempster's were the property of the London Ropery Company? A. Because I recognise them as being spun at Whitby—I saw the remainder of the spun yarn of which that was part—I said at the time it was spun yarn, and at
the police-station they said it was a species of rope, and I said, "Yes, it is"—spun yarn is the yarn of rope not twisted; it is always sold with rope; it is the same price, and they are sold together—I recognised it immediately.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. How long had you been with the Ropery Company? A. Five months.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. I understand you called Mr. Hewitt's, the customer's, attention to the weights? A. Yes; he sent me an account, saying he kept so many coils, and I sent him an account of the weights of those coils; which he kept, giving him the weight of each size by itself—I had taken those weights as the coils left the yard—I sent him my account, and when I went down there he said, "This weight is not correct, there is 18 lbs. deficient; but on the other lot you sent there is 18 lbs. too much"—it was equivalent, except that the things which I charged 18 lbs. under were more expensive than those on which I charged 18 lbs. over.
COURT. Q. Was that wrong addition which anybody who added up the account could find out? A. I had seen Mr. Hewitt before, and had actually told him, speaking of the rope-making trade, that it was the practice to do so, and in February we had a conversation about it, and I leave it to you to think whether it was probable he was going to be taken in in that way.
Bassett's Defence. The first lot before Christmas, belonged to a man named Wood, and never came from the Ropery Company. We were ordered to sell for him if we possibly could. The parties were entire strangers to us; we sold the rope and had the money returned to us, and we gave it to Mr. Wood. There is no proof that that rope came from the Ropery Company; it never did come from them. The rope was in Kempster's place before we knew anything at all about it; I went there to look at it, and said I would see if I could get a customer for it, and I and Stokes went down to Mr. Leary's and bargained with him, and sold it to him and returned the money to this Mr. Wood.
Stokes' Defence. One day before Christmas, a stout short man, came with rather a seafaring man to the gate, and asked if Mr. Morgan would buy any rope. I said, "I do not know; trade is very slack; I don't think he will;" he said, "If he will, we have got a lot we will sell cheap;" I said, "I am almost sure he won't buy it." I promised to ask him; that was in the afternoon. In the evening after dark he came again, knocked at the door of our house, and said, "I know a party that will buy that rope; they know me very well, but I don't understand representing in the matter of rope, like you; there is a Frank Leary down town; he don't buy it himself, but his partner Vare will advance money to any extent; we want 60l. for the lot; it is a lot all put together." I said, "I don't know anything about it;" he said, "If you, will come with us, we will pay you for the trouble; you represent yourself as the seller of it." I said I did not mind, and they took me to Mr. Vare's, and he took us to Mr. Leary. Evans did not go there with us; I dont know why. Leary appointed to meet Bassett next day. I declare that I never saw the rope; a lad drove the van and met me going down; a gentlemen called for me after breakfast and told me to go down and get the money at the public-house this side of the Surrey Canal bridge. (Stokes here asked the witness Ward if he remembered meeting him there, and Ward replied, "Yes, I think it was you".) I met Leary and Bassett, and they took me into a public-house; 46l. was what they agreed to take. Bassett not being able to write, Leary told me to write a receipt; I said I did not understand doing so, and he told me the words and I wrote them;
that is all I know about it: and as for knowing about anything going off the premises, I assure you I did not. Last Christmas I captured two lads that had been robbing the premises, and the officer Hughes knows that I was out till 12 o'clock at night after the other one, and captured him the next day at Greenwich.
Stokes, Gray, and Kempster, received very good characters.
BASSETT and STOKES— GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude each.
KEMPSTER— GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
GRAY— NOT GUILTY . MR. METCALFE stated that about 2,000l. worth of property was missed.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, 12TH MAY, 1862.