CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT
NINTH SESSION, HELD JULY 8TH, 1861.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY
Short-hand Writers to the Court,
ROLLS CHAMBERS, No. 89, CHANCERY LANE.
THE POINTS OF LAW AND PRACTICE,
REVISED AND EDITED BY
OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BARRISTER-AT-LAW.
BUTTERWORTHS, 7, FLEET STREET,
Law Publishers to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.
On the Queen's Commission of
OYER AND TERMINER AND GAOL DELIVERY,
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, July 8th, 1861, and following days.
BEFORE the Right Hon. WILLIAM CUBITT , M.P. Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir William Wightman, Knt. one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir George Bramwell, Knt. one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Thomas Challis, Esq.; Thomas Quested Finnis, Esq.; and John Carter, Esq., F.A.S. and F.R.A.S., Aldermen of the said City; Russell Gurney, Esq. Q.C. Recorder of the said City; William Anderson Rose, Esq.; William Lawrence, Esq.; Thomas Gabriel, Esq.; Edward Conder, Esq.; James Abbiss, Esq., Aldermen of the said City; Thomas Chambers, Esq. Q.C. Common Serjeant of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. Judge of Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
CUBITT, MAYOR. NINTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are know to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, July 8th, 1861.
PRESENT.—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR, M.P.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. Ald. GABRIEL.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM DUNKLEY . I am a boot maker, living in Parson's-court, Bride-lane. On Saturday-night, 18th May, I was with my wife and some other persons in a pie-shop in Fleet-street—I was quite sober—the prisoner was in the shop, and two other persons—I and my wife were seated on on one side of a table, and the prisoner and his companions on the other—I believe the prisoner was quite sober—some vulgar word was used which was offensive to my wife—I told the prisoner he ought to know better than to use such language to a female; whereupon he got up and struck me in the mouth—upon that a police-constable was called in, and I gave him in charge; but the policeman would not take him, as he was not there to witness the assault—I and my wife then went out of the shop, leaving the others there, and when we had nearly got home I heard a run and a whistle behind me—I turned round and saw the prisoner—he said, "One at a time," and knocked me down—he struck me on the shoulder—there were several other persons round at the time; but he is the man that struck me—I got up again—he had his coat off—he struck me in the mouth, and knocked me down—it was a hard blow with his fist—whilst I was on the ground he kicked me in the ancle—I saw him raise his leg and kick me—I saw that distinctly—my leg was broken by it—I was not sure at the time that it was broken, but I felt very ill—I could not get up—I called out to my wife, "He has kicked me," and we gave him in charge—I was taken to the hospital, and there found that my leg was broken—I remained there three weeks and three days, and am now an out-patient—my leg is now going on very favourably—I had known nothing of the prisoner until that night.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. The prisoner and his friends were all larking together in a friendly way, were they not? A. Not that I know of—they came in whilst we were in the pie-shop—I am not aware that there was
any chaffing going on—I do not know a person named Curtis, not by name (Curtis was called in)—that is the very party that insulted my wife—he was throwing off back slang at my wife—I did not say I would shove a pie in his eye—I do not know Baskerfield (Baskerfeld was called in)—I do not know that person—I did not see him there to my recollection—I did hit the prisoner in the pie-shop, but it was in my own defence—before I touched him at all he had struck me in the mouth—I then struck him again—I cannot say whether the policeman was there at the time—I have no recollection of the prisoner saying, "Look here, policeman, he has struck me two or three times"—I did not hear the policeman say we were all one as bad as the other—when we left the pie-shop we did not run at each other—when he struck me I took my own defence—there are no iron railings about there—the prisoner did not fall on the top of me—I saw him lift his leg, and kick me—I swear it did not occur accidentally—I have since received 3l. from the prisoner's friends—I did not require more, and I did not ask for that—I think I had the 3l. The day before I went before the Magistrate, or the same day.
COURT. Q. How came you to receive that 3l.? A. I was in very great distress at that time, and 3l. was a great inducement to me—it was given me by the prisoner's master to withdraw the charge, and I asked the Magistrate to allow me to withdraw it, but he would not; he said he must protect the public—I was willing to withdraw it.
CAROLINE DUNKLEY . I am the wife of the last witness—I was with my husband on Saturday-night, 18th May, in the pie-shop in Fleet-street—something was said to me by some person, and my husband interfered—the man struck my husband in the pie-shop—the shopman said he would not have any fighting there; they could go outside if they liked, and fight it out—as we were going home we heard a whistling, as of two or three parties, and when we got two or three doors from Bouverie-street the parties ran behind us—one of them said, "One at a time"—my husband turned round, and the prisoner struck him and knocked him down—I assisted my husband to rise to his feet, and the prisoner struck him and knocked him down again—Evans made an attitude to strike him in the face—I took hold of him, and held him off from striking my husband's face, but I do not know what he did with his feet—I was behind him, and did not see his feet—my husband commenced groaning, and saying he had been kicked, and said, "Oh, my leg!"—he was quite sober—I am quite sure he did not touch Evans before he was struck.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite sure that your husband did not hit him instead of the other man? A. I did not see him—the man was talking nasty slang to me—I am quite sure my husband did not strike at him and hit Evans—my husband rose to go home, and Evans rose from the table and struck my husband in the mouth—he said he was interfering with his friend—the policeman was called in after the first blow was given—I did not see my husband strike a blow, but I heard him say that he struck at Evans going out—I did not hear the policeman say that one was as bad as the other—he said, he did not see the blow struck—there was no fight between my husband and Evans, it did not last three minutes—he did not fall down, Evans struck him down—there are no railings there, nothing but the pavement.
GEORGE FOSTER . I was with these parties walking down Fleet-street—I saw the prisoner come up, and strike Dunkley in the mouth; it knocked him down—when he tried to get up again I saw the prisoner kick him towards his feet—I distinctly saw him kick him—I heard Dunkley groan, and complain about his leg being much hurt—he was sober.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. A printer. I had just come from the Mogul, in Drury-lane—I came down behind Dunkley—I met Dunkley at the corner of Chancery-lane, and was talking to him, and saw the blow struck—I was quite close to him when I saw the kick—I am quite certain it was not an accident—I am a friend of his—I have known him a long time—I did not' interfere to take his part—I never spoke to the prisoner.
Witnesses for the Defence.
FREDERICK CURTIS . I am a book-binder, and live at 3, Falcon-court—I was in the pie-shop in Fleet-street on this Saturday-night, about half-past 12—there were not many persons there—Evans was there, no one else of his party—the prosecutor and his wife came in—we called for a pie, and were sitting eating it—I was speaking about a piece called the Colleen Brawn that I had seen at the Adelphi theatre—I did not make use of any improper language—I was merely repeating "Crema Crama Cromo"—the prosecutor asked if I was insulting his wife—I said I was not—he said he would put the pie in my eye—he got up to make a blow at me, and I got up to ask him what it was for, and Evans being near, to save me, struck him—then it was all settled—a policeman was called in—he said one was as bad as the other, and he would not take Evans in charge—while Evans was sitting down, the prosecutor made three punches across the box at his face—Evans did not hit him again—he called the policeman's attention, and said, "you see he has hit me again"—the policeman was still there—he said we had better all be off—we all went out—the prosecutor and his wife went across the other side of the way to go home—I and Evans walked on the other side—I bade Evans good-night, as he lived in Bouverie-street, and as soon as Evans got across the road I heard a scuffling—I ran across, and was just in time to hear Evans say, "One at a time"—I picked up his cap—the prosecutor and his wife were attacking him—the wife had hold of his coat and Evans and the prosecutor were punching—in about a second I saw them both fall, the prosecutor being underneath, and then he complained of his leg being broken—I did not see Evans kick the prosecutor—I will be on my oath that he was not kicked at all—I was so close that I must have seen—very likely he fell with his leg twisted underneath—there were a pretty good many people about there—when we heard the man had broken his leg we subscribed, and gave him 3l. or 4l.
Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. Was the prosecutor able to rise again? A. No; I did not see him rise; he was helped up—I did not hear him call oat that his leg was broken—what I said in the pie-shop was said to Evans, not to the prosecutor's wife—it was nothing except about the Colleen Brawn—the scuffle in the street occurred against the shutters of a stationer's shop near Bouverie-street—I came up when they were fighting—I heard Evans. say, "One at a time," and they both fell down.
MR. COOPER. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. About two years—he has borne a very good character as a kind, inoffensive man.
COURT. Q. Do you work with him? A. Yes—I did not subscribe to the 3l.
JOHN BASKERVILLE . I am a coal-porter, at 223, Upper Thames-street—I know nothing of these parties, they are all perfect strangers to me—I happened to be going home late this Saturday night—I was close against the fountain by St. Dunstan's church—I heard a little bit of disturbance in the shop, and curiosity induced me to wait—I saw them come out; one
party went on one side of the street, and one on the other—just before they got to Bouverie-street, one party went across to the other, and then they got fighting with each other—I went away, and did not trouble my head with them any further.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
RHODA VAUGHAN . I am a single woman, and live at 13, Queen's-road West, Regent's-park. On 30th May, I was on my way home with my mother and sister—I saw a number of boys two or three doors from home—there were about five or six of them—one of them snatched my bag from me—they were all close together; some on one side of me, and some on the other—as soon as the bag was taken, they all ran off—the bag contained about 25s. in silver, some portraits, and some accounts in a book—I did not notice any of the boys—the bag was snatched with violence; my hand was sprained—it was a leather bag.
FREDERICK AUSTIN . I am a bricklayer, and live at 3, Eaton-place, Princes-terrace, Regent's-park. On 30th May, I was going to my work, and met Miss Vaughan—before I met her, I met six young chaps running round the corner from the Queen's-road—they were running from the direction of Miss Vaughan, coming from the Queen's-road, towards Princes-terrace, and they turned down by the comer of a public-house—Miss Vaughan said something to me—I saw which way they turned, and went a nearer way and over-took them—I saw the prisoner Watson pass the bag to one of the others—it was a leather bag—I ran to catch hold of the one that had got the bag, and Watson turned and pushed me back—I made another start to run, and he prevented me again, and I caught him by the collar and threw him on the pavement, and kept him till the policeman came and took him from me—Anderson is very much like one of the boys, but I will not swear positively to him—they were all running pretty nearly together.
Cross-examined by MR. PARK. Q. When was it that you saw Masters in custody? A. The next week, I think.
CHARLES MERRICK (Policeman, S 328.) About 12 o'clock, on 30th May, I saw the prisoner Watson and four others coming along the Gloucester-road—I followed them to Primrose-hill—they got inside the hill, and laid down—I went on to the. top and watched them—I afterwards saw them go out of the hill into the Queen's-road west—I went down to the railings at the foot of the hill, looked through, and saw them surround Miss Vaughan and snatch from her a bag similar to this, and then all ran away together—I ran after them—they turned the corner of Princes-terrace leading to the Gloucester-road—I there saw Watson stopped by Austin and took him to the station—I can identify the other two—I went with another constable the week after to a beer-shop in Crown-street, and there apprehended them—I know them well by sight as constant associates—I am quite sure they are two of the boys who were surrounding Miss Vaughan, and assisting Watson, who took the bag; there was another lady with Miss Vaughan—the boys were pushing the ladies, who seemed to be almost falling.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there not three ladies? A. I saw two ladies close together—I went to look after Anderson and Masters that same day, but they were not to be found.
about half-past 11, I was in the Hampstead-road, and saw the three prisoners in company with two other young lads, going towards. Camden-town—one of them spoke to me as they passed me, and said, "Halloo, policeman, how are you?"—I was in plain clothes—this was about half-a-mile from the York and Albany.
Cross-examined. Q. Can you say which it was that spoke to you? A. No; it was one of the five.
Watson's Defence. I was coming along the Queen's-road and met this man, who says he saw me pass the bag; he laid hold of me, and gave me in charge. I did not know what it was for; I saw some boys running.
MR. PARK called the following witnesses.
JOHN CROWTHER . I am a costermonger—I can prove that the small boy (Anderson) is innocent—I took him down to Epsom, on Tuesday 28th, by the railway from Waterloo-station at twenty minutes past 6, and he never returned home from Epsom until the Friday—on Wednesday and Thursday nights fourteen policemen slept in the house, as the boy and I slept in the adjoining stable—it was Epsom races—I went down there in my regular occupation, and employed Anderson at the Aunt Sally—I was the first person that played with the Duke of Beaufort—the boy was with me from the Tuesday to the Friday—my wife was with me—I went before the Magistrate on the last examination, but he would not hear me.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Are you the proprietor of an Aunt Sally? A. Yes; I paid 15s. for a bit of ground—I took Anderson to assist me; he was with me the whole time—Thursday was an off day—that is a day we are not expected to do much; but I got half-a-sovereign from a captain who played with Bob Travers, the black—I employed Anderson the whole of the Thursday; he picked up the sticks—I had also a poor sort of boy to assist me, but I cannot find where he is—he also helped to pick up the sticks—I collected the accounts and gave out the sticks—there were other persons who saw the boy, but they would not come without being paid—I have been in trouble twice for selling my goods; and am likely to be again to-day for pushing my barrow—I have been in prison about four times for pushing my barrow and assaulting the police—when I have been taken up, I have said I would not go; that I thought it a cruel thing, and they have called it an assault.
SARAH CROWTHER . I am the wife of the last witness—I was with my husband at Epsom, and we took Anderson to work with us; he went down with us on the Tuesday evening by the 6.20 train, and came home with us on Friday, between 12 and 1 in the morning—he is quite innocent of this.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you attending to the Aunt Sally? A. I had nuts to sell—I was by the Aunt Sally all the time, on the hill—the Aunt Sally was stuck up on the Thursday—there were not so many people there on the Thursday—I was there all the time and never left, nor this boy either—I have been in trouble, only by getting my living; they said it was obstructing the footpaths, in Somerstown—I was not charged with having stolen goods—I have only been twice in custody; once was for getting drunk—I do not know where Anderson lives—my husband went home with him the Friday night we came from the races—they went towards Clarendon-square, Somerstown—I was four months in prison for a watch that was stolen and put upon me by a girl I was drinking with.
MR. PARK. Q. There are races on the Thursday, are there not? A. Yes; and a great many people there, and ladies in carriages.
New-road—I know Masters—I recollect Thursday, 30th May, the day after the Derby—I called that day at the house where Masters lives, 14, Wood-street, Comer-street—I think it must have been a little after 12 o'clock—a young woman answered the door, and told me he was in bed—I did not see him then—I went again about half-past 3 in the afternoon—he came out then—he had on a pair of slippers and was not washed, as if he had just got up.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean that he was in bed at 12 o'clock in the day? A. Yes; on account of his walking all the way from the races—I had seen him the previous evening.
MARY ANN WILLIAMS . I live at 14, Wood-street—Masters lodges there. On Thursday, 30th May, I recollect the young man calling—I did not answer the door, I was washing at the time, and came up as far as the parlor—Masters was then in the house and in bed—he had left my house on the 29th to go to the races as he told me, and he returned between 1 and 2 in the morning—I saw him in bed at 8 o'clock on the Thursday, and again at 12 and 3, and asked if he was not going to get up—I am certain it was on the Thursday, because I never wash except on Thursday.
Cross-examined. Q. How came you to see him at 8 o'clock? A. I had to go into the room for a brush; and I saw him at 12 because my husband comes home to his dinner at 12, and we have our meals in the front parlour, and Masters lives in the back—it was his young woman that answered the door—I believe he is about twenty years of age—I saw him in bed at 12 o'clock, because his door was open, and I spoke to him—I don't know where he works; he told me he worked for his father—I do not know Anderson or Watson—I have seen Anderson about going through Wood-street, but not to know anything of him—I have never seen him speaking to Masters to my knowledge—I saw him one day with his mother—I saw Masters in bed at 3 o'clock—I did not see him after that—my husband works at Cubitt's, in Gray's-inn-road—he always comes home to dinner at 12—it would take him about five or seven minutes to get home—I can't say whether it Was before or after he came in that I saw Masters in bed; it was just about that time.
COURT. Q. When did you hear of Masters being taken into custody? A. One evening; I cannot say what day it was—I did not know what he was taken for.
MISS VAUGHAN (re-examined). The robbery occurred about 12 o'clock—I cannot say for certain whether it was before or after 12; it was about 12.
WATSON— GUILTY .†— Confined Twelve Months.
ANDERSON and MASTERS— NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Monday, July 8th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. GABRIEL; Mr. Ald. ABBISS; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Six Months.
WILLIAM FEAST (City-policeman, 330). On 1st July, I took the prisoner from the prosecutor on London-bridge, who charged him with stealing a gold watch from his person—I searched the prisoner on the bridge at his own request, and found this watch (produced) in his trousers'-pocket.
WILLIAM SIMPSON POTTER . I am a coal factor. On 1st July, I was crossing London-bridge; I stopped to look at the fire, and the prisoner came along-side of me, and closed upon me—I drew back, and saw his hand in the direction of my waistcoat pocket—I looked at my watch chain, and it appeared all right; I stepped back to go away, when the chain fell down; I immediately turned to seize the prisoner—I found a policeman by my side, and gave him in charge, as my watch was gone—I told the policeman to search him, and he took this watch (produced) out of the prisoner's pocket—it is mine; the bow is broken.
Prisoner's Defence. I picked the watch up.
It was stated by the police that he had been nine times in Holloway Gaol.
Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD TYER . I am a traveller. On Saturday afternoon, 19th June, about half-past 5, I was on Fish-street-hill, and stopped to look at a band which was passing—I saw the prisoners hand at my right-hand waistcoat-pocket, where I had had my watch, but it was gone—it had been fastened to a chain, which went through a button-hole—I made a grasp at him, but he ran away—I ranafter him, and caught him at the bottom of Fish-street-hill—he struggled to get away at first, but eventually gave in—an officer came, and I gave him in charge—he had the watch in his hand, and the guard came in contact with my hand; a little boy brought it to me afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. What became of the watch? A. I expect the prisoner got it; I have never seen it—the chain is at home; I did not think it necessary to bring it—quite a mob was created by a volunteer band passing—the prisoner ran about 100 yards before I caught him—he ran into the middle of the road, past the volunteers, and I then caught him—not more than two or three minutes elapsed from my seeing the hand going to my pocket, till I caught the prisoner—I never lost sight of him; I was watching him all the time—I know him by his height particularly—we got before the volunteers, who were going down the hill.
FRANCIS FREDERICK SYLVESTER . I am eleven years old, and live at 2, St. Dunstan's-alley—last Saturday afternoon I saw the volunteers on Fish-street-hill—I saw the prisoner with his hand in Mr. Tyer's waistcoat pocket, but did not see anything taken out; but he took his hand out and ran—I did not see anything in his hand; but it was shut—Mr. Tyer ran after him and took hold of him.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you live at home with your parents? A. Yes; I went to the station the same day—a gentleman took me there—he asked the boys whether they saw him take the watch, and I said that I did—I did
not say before the Magistrate that I saw him take the watch out of the pocket—there was a great crowd about—there were others running beside the prisoner—when I first saw the prosecutor he was walking, then running and then he stopped by the Monument; and it was when he was standing still that the prisoner put his hand into the pocket—the prisoner had on a round hat and a brown coat—I saw him caught—I was by myself—I ran when Mr. Tyer ran—I was on the other side of the road when the man was caught, and was about as far from him as I am from you.
ELY JONES (City-policeman, 598). About half-past 5, on Saturday evening, I was on duty near the Monument—I saw the prosecutor holding the prisoner at the bottom of Fish-street-hill—he gave him in custody for stealing his watch—he gave his right address, and said that he worked in the Docks, and did not get his living by thieving.
Jury to EDWARD TYER. Q. Was the running necessary to enable the prisoner to keep up with the band? A. He bolted as fast as he could in the crowd, and I saw the end of the chain in his hand—I tried to lay hold of his collar, and the chain dropped and swung to my waistcoat; it caught my finger, and dropped on the ground.
NOT GUILTY .
WILLIAM NORRIS . On 17th June, about half-past 9 in the morning, I was in Fore-street, and met a procession with three banners and a band—I stood to look at it, and felt somebody near me pressing against me—I found the prisoner with my watch in one hand and my chain in the other, separating them—he took my watch and made off—I followed him, over-took him, and he threw me down—I caught him by the trousers' leg, and held him tight till he was taken in custody—my watch was picked up in the road—I did not see him throw it away.
GEORGE BROGDEN . I was in Fore-street at half-past 9 o'clock, on 17th June, and saw the procession go by—I saw Mr. Norris there, at first lying on the ground holding the prisoner by the leg of the trousers—he called out "The man has robbed me of my watch"—I turned my head and saw the prosecutor's watch in the prisoner's right hand—I collared him, and he, threw, it behind him, among the procession—I did not pick it up—I held him till the policeman came, and then gave him in charge—I saw the watch—it was a silver Geneva watch.
Prisoner. Q. Why did not you lay hold of my hand that the watch was in? A. Because I thought it better to call for a policeman.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
THOMAS JACKSON . I produce a certificate (Read;—Central Criminal Court—John Lloyd, convicted, June, 1860, of breaking and entering the shop of John Draper, and stealing shoes and other articles—Confined One Year)—the prisoner is the person—he was tried in the name of John Lloyd.
GUILTY.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. WAY conducted the Prosecution.
HELEN ELIZABETH MUIRHEAD . I live at High-street, Chatham. On Saturday, 29th June, I was in Cheapside, looking at the procession of Mr. Braidwood's funeral, about half-past 2 o'clock—Miss Whiteman, a friend, was with me—while there, I felt a sharp pull at my watch chain, which was round my neck, with a gold watch on to it—when I felt the pull I turned round and saw the prisoner with my watch in his hand—I am sure he is the man—I had an opportunity of seeing his face—he was breaking my watch from the chain—he gave it a violent pull, and broke the swivel—I saw the watch in his hand—I caught his hand and he pulled it away from me, put the watch into his other hand and passed it over the heads of some people in the crowd—Miss Whiteman went forward immediately and seized him by the collar, and held him securely until we gave him in charge of the policeman.
Cross-examined by MR. PATER. Q. I suppose you came up from Chatham on purpose to see the funeral? A. No; there was a great crowd collected—we were standing at the corner of Queen-street—Miss Whiteman was with me the whole time—I had not noticed the prisoner before I felt the pull at my chain—I am nearly sure that he held my watch in his right hand—I will not be positive—I was examined before the Magistrate—I am quite sure that I have mentioned the prisoner having wished to pass it from one hand to the other; I cannot tell you when, because I do not know—I have said it several times—I have sworn at the Mansion-house that I saw him—I am certain now that it was in the right hand—I know his right hand from his left—I wear a watch-pocket—the watch was in my watch-pocket—it was not protected in any way—I had a mantle over my watch-pocket, as it is now.
SARAH WHITEMAN . I was with Miss Muirhead in Cheapside—she called out "My watch is gone, that man has it," meaning the prisoner—he was then bringing down his hand from putting it over the heads of some persons in the crowd—I caught hold of his arm; he struggled and shook me off, and was making away and I caught him by the collar, and held him till an officer came.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you also engaged in looking at the funeral? A. I was—there was a great crowd—I did not see the prisoner pass anything—I only saw him bring his hand back.
WILLIAM SHAW (City-policeman, 452). I was at the corner of Queen-street, Cheapside, in the middle of the road, regulating the traffic—I heard the cries of police, went into the crowd, and found the last witness holding the prisoner by the coat collar—the prosecutrix said, "That man has taken my watch, I saw it in his hand"—I took him in custody and told him he must go to the station—he said it would be very hard to be taken away; that he had not had the watch—I took him to the station, where he was charged—he gave the name of John Griff, but refused his address—I searched him—there was no property found on him.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I hope you will not send me for trial."
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.
was in an omnibus; it was unable to proceed, and I alighted—when I got out there was a considerable crowd—I got out in Cheapside, close to Mr. Bennett's shop—the crowd was caused by the funeral of Mr. Braidwood—I went in the direction of Lombard-street, intending to go there, and endeavoured to turn round Queen-street to avoid the crowd—an omnibus which was coming by, caused a rush of people against me—the people went past me, and immediately I felt a pressure on my left-hand side, a slight motion at my waistcoat pocket, upon which I placed my hand there, and found my watch was gone, and the chain hanging, broken—I instantly turned and observed a man pressing against me, whose hand was being removed from my side—I should have seized him but that I noticed his hand moving rapidly round in this direction, towards the left, towards the prisoner who was in front of him with his back towards us—I saw the prisoner appear to receive it with his right hand; he put his hand round to meet the other man's hand, and some words passed between them which I could not hear—I immediately laid hold of the prisoner—he received what I believed to be my watch—I have no doubt he received something—a policeman did not come up for some time—I called, "Police," and removed the prisoner, as far as I could, from anybody but myself—I kept hold of him till a policeman came.
Cross-examined by MR. ROSHER. Q. I believe there was a very great crowd on this occasion in the street? A. There was—the people were not all round me, because there was an omnibus on one side—I found myself surrounded with a very Jarge body of people immediately I got out—amongst others I saw the prisoner—I do not swear that it was the prisoner who pressed against me—he never pressed against me, it was the other man that pressed against me, and that took my watch—I saw the prisoner receive what I believe to be the watch from the man who stole it from me—I turned round hoping to catch them both, but he was off; he ran away—I did not see the watch in his hand at all—I did not feel it taken from my pocket—I felt a slight motion there, which caused me to put my hand up—I had on the same coats that I have now—I had both coats buttoned; but on being pressed into the crowd, the bottom button was pulled open—the watch was in this pocket on the left-hand side—my coat was like this exactly, when it took place—that was before I felt the pressure.
MR. TAYLOR. Q. Is there any doubt that your watch was taken out! A. Not the least—when the watch was found the swivel was attached to it.
COURT. Q. Did you see your watch shortly afterwards? A. Yes; at the police-station—I first saw it when the prisoner was taken in custody—the swivel was attached to it, but the little link that connects it with the chain was opened with the wrench.
JURY. Q. How long was it before this that you had your watch? A. Immediately before—I had looked at it after I had got out of the omnibus, not two minutes before I missed it.
THOMAS HAYWARD (City-policeman, 434). I was on duty in Cheapside, on Saturday afternoon, 29th June—I did not hear the cry—I saw the prisoner and prosecutor struggling with each other, the prisoner trying to get away from the prosecutor—I crossed over and caught hold of the prisoner immediately—the prosecutor said, "He has got my watch, policeman"—I asked him if he saw him take the watch from his pocket—he said, "No; but I saw the hand of the one that had taken it, pass it to the prisoner—the prisoner said, "I have not taken it"—I took the prisoner in custody—a person in the crowd said, so that the prisoner could hoar it, "It is all
right, policeman, he has just dropped it by his side"—I saw the man that had spoken, stoop and pick it up from his aide, and he gave it to me—this (produced) is it—it was close by the prisoner—I took him to the station-house.
Cross-examined. Q. Who is the person that was standing in the crowd and made that remark? A. I do not know who the man was; he was coming with me to the station, but we lost him in the crowd—the watch was found down by the prisoner's side—there were twenty persons near, but not on the spot—I do not suppose the prosecutor and prisoner were exactly on the same spot where they were first standing before the struggle—I did not see the prisoner drop the watch—the person who did see him drop it is not here—the prisoner gave his address—I did not go there—there is not the least reason to doubt it being right.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "I plead guilty.")
GUILTY of receiving.
He was further charged with having been before convicted.
JOHN FOULGER (City-police Inspector). I produce a certificate (Read:" Central Criminal Court. Alfred Brown, convicted, June, 1852, on his own confession, of stealing a handkerchief from the person; Transported for Seven Years")—I was present—the prisoner is the person mentioned there.
GUILTY.**— Ten Tears' Penal Servitude.
MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLOTTE STANLEY . I am the wife of Robert Stanley, of 41, Booth-street, Spitalfields—on 15th June, I went out about half-past 10 o'clock, leaving the two ground-floor rooms locked up—I returned in less than ten minutes—I had left no one in the lower rooms, but there were people in the rooms over me—I left the outer door open—that opens into a passage, not into a room—we have two rooms—I locked the outer one—it had been forced open when I returned, and the room was full of our wearing apparel strewed about; I could not get in for it—I saw a man there—I cannot say who; he knocked me down at the door, and I saw him go over me with two coats on—he ran out at the front-door—I called, "Police"—I missed two coats, worth 30s.; one was my husband's, and the other my son's—I cannot swear to the prisoner; he looked stouter by having two coats on—the man was about his height.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Was the lock broken? A. One part was forced off, where the lock caught in—there was a lamp over the door, and I could see plainly that the man had on my husband's blue pilot-coat outside.
MR. GENT. Q. Did he leave the house-door open when he went out? A. Both doors—the gas runs up against my door—the blue pilot-coat had a cloth collar, and the other coat a velvet collar.
MARY MULLINDAR . I am a fancy-box-maker, of 46, Booth-street; the prosecutor's house is No. 47, and the numbers run straight. On Saturday evening, 15th June, I was standing two doors off Mrs. Stanley's, and saw her go out—I saw her go in again, and saw the prisoner knock her down as she went in—there was another old lady there, and he jumped over her and ran down the street; he came by me and I tried to stop him—he was three or four yards from me—there was an old lady in the middle of the road; he ran
against her, knocked her down, and fell himself—he ran as far as the Bull's Head public-house; I ran after him, and saw him run into a policeman's arms, he then pulled off his coat and put it over his arm—the policeman took him back to Booth-street, to the old lady who he had knocked down last; but she said that she could not swear to him, and the policeman let him go—I went close to see what was going on—the coat was a dark-blue pilot-coat and had a velvet collar; it was an over-coat.
Cross-examined. Q. What did you do? A. I ran and tried to stop him, and caught hold of his coat—that was when I saw him knock down the first old lady—I knew it was Mr. Stanley's coat, because I have seen him wearing it; but did not know that the prisoner had stolen it—I ran after him with another young girl—when the prisoner took off the coat, the policeman asked him whose property it was, and he said that it was his own—it was three-quarters of an hour between the policeman taking him and letting him go; he took him again when he heard of the robbery—I was only about five minutes in the presence of the policeman and the prisoner—I said nothing about the other old lady—the prisoner did not run very fast; I was able to keep up with him for about twenty-five yards, and was close to him when he went into the policeman's arms.
MR. GENT. Q. Did Mrs. Stanley appear to identify him? A. No; after he was taken the second time, I made a communication of what I had seen—the prisoner is the man.
NEHEMIAH SHARPE (Policeman, H 185). I was in Booth-street about half-past 10, and saw the prisoner running and a lot of boys and two or three females behind him—I caught him in my arms; he wanted to know what it was for, I said, "You are the first to come up"—I asked him what it was—he said, "I have just knocked a female down in the street"—he had two coats on; the under one was black cloth and had a velvet collar buttoned over, the other was a loose pilot-coat—he had got that over the other; he wanted to take it off, but I would not let him—a female came up to me, and I went in search of the prisoner, and took him a quarter of an hour afterwards at the Bull's Head—I charged him with striking and knocking down a woman, and taking two coats—he said that he knew nothing about it—he had two coats, one with a velvet collar and one without.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there 200 or 300 people surrounding you! A. Yes; and there were fifty or sixty boys and girls running after him—I cannot say whether the prisoner had three coats, he had the under one buttoned all down—scarcely five minutes after I had let him go a woman in black told me to take him—it was not the prosecutrix—I went to the house before I took him the second time.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, July 9th, 1861.
PRESENT—The Right Honourable the LORD MAYOR, M.P.; Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. Ald. GABRIEL.
Before Mr. Justice Wightman.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
555. JAMES DENNY CHAPMAN (49) , Feloniously forging and uttering an acceptance to a bill of exchange, for the payment of 100l.; also, an acceptance to a bill for 71l. 12s. 3d., with intent to defraud; also, feloniously omitting to surrender himself after his being adjudged a bankrupt; to all of which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Sevitude.
MESSRS. METCALFE and CARTER conducted the prosecution.
JAMES HODGSON LLOYD . I am a solicitor, carrying on business under the firm of Ford and Lloyd, Bloomsbury-square—I was concerned for Mr. Dives, a miller, in this matter, as Mr. Dives' solicitor—I went down with him, on 10th November last, to see Mr. Bassett at Uxbridge—I am the attesting witness to the declaration of insolvency; that declaration was subsequently filed by me in the bankruptcy court—I went to the prisoner for the purpose of seeing what means the prisoner had of meeting Mr. Dives' claim against him, and that was the result of my interview with him on that occasion—I myself filed the declaration at the office of the chief registrar on the 17th—I also, on the same day, filed the petition for adjudication, at the instance of Mr. Thomas Dives—I have the proceedings here—the affidavit was filed at the same time—the adjudication was made on the 19th, by Mr. Commissioner Gonlbourn—I have the bankrupt's examination here—I find a long examination on 16th March, and there are other previous examinations, which are all on the proceedings—this is the examination at the certificate meeting—each sheet of the examination is signed by the prisoner—not in my presence, but I speak to his handwriting—the examination was taken in my presence—I have the order for this prosecution, on 11th April, by Mr. Commissioner Goulbourn.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. When did you go down to him with Mr. Dives? A. On the 10th; I believe Mr. Dives had not been down the day before—I should think I was probably an hour with the bankrupt—he did not show me all his books—I don't think I saw any of his books—I did not ask to see them—I saw some papers—he made out a list of his creditors I think his debts proved under the bankruptcy were 12,176l. 19s. 6d.—there were creditors whose debts were secured about 5,000l. or 6,000l., the Uxbridge Bank, in addition to that; I do not know the exact amount—I believe his good debts were returned at somewhere about 4,000l., but not anything like that has been recovered: I believe not more than about 2,000l.—I really cannot speak as to the figures—the good debts stated on the balance sheet are 3,400l., and doubtful debts over 1,000l.; but that is a considerable over-estimate—the property surrendered amounted to nearly 2,000l.; the trade expenses are returned at 4,856l.; the property held by the creditors is stated here as 7,504l., that also is an over-estimate—I think about 3s. 6d. in the pound was paid—the official assignee I think stated that he thought 6s. 8d. might be realized—I believe he reported that the books had been well kept; the report is not here—I do not know that he stated
in his report, "I believe the books were well kept;" but I do not know anything about it—I am not sure whether the report is here or not—I heard it read—I don't think it is here, it was merely made for the information of the commissioner—I do not think it is usual to put it on the proceedings—I see it is here.
MR. METCALFE. Q. You have been reading those figures I suppose from the balance sheet? A. Yes; furnished by the prisoner himself—when that came to be tested, the prospect for the creditors was not quite so good as the balance sheet represented.
THOMAS DIVES . I carry on the business of a miller at Battersea—I am the petitioning creditor under this bankruptcy—I have known the defendant carrying on his business about ten years, as a corn dealer and trader, I believe the amount of my debt at the time of my petition was about 4,200l. I cannot say the exact amount; it was over 4,000l—I had had transactions with the defendant some years prior to my petition in November last, to a large extent—I have known and dealt with him ten years—on 9th November last, I received from him a barge load of wheat, 260 quarters—it was brought to me in the prisoner's sacks—he had been in the habit of selling me corn by sample—I always buy by sample—I saw the defendant on 27th August at Mark-lane—he showed me some samples of wheat—I bought 594 quarters of him then, and paid him on that occasion 1,927l. 16s. by cheque—this is it (produced)—only twenty-one quarters of that corn was delivered to me—he said the corn was at his place at Uxbridge—I believed that statement when he made it to me—part of it had been delivered at Mr. Kelsey's mill on my account—no; that was not the parcel—on 17th September I saw the defendant—on that occasion he obtained from me a cheque for 796l. 5s.—this is the cheque (producing it)—that was in respect of 245 quarters of wheat bought on that occasion, the price agreed on was 65s. a quarter—the prisoner did not say anything particular in respect of the bulk of that, not at the time I bought it and before I gave him the cheque—I always understood that he had the wheat by him whenever I purchased—if he had not it by him, it was coming in next week, perhaps, what he had bought the previous day or two.
COURT. Q. Did you understand that he had it at that time? A. I did not always put the question to him if he had it by him.
MR. CARTER. Q. Did you ever, on any occasion, knowingly give your cheque unless you believed the wheat was in his warehouse, or that it was represented so? A. Certainly; if he had represented that it would be coming in a day or two, although it was not then in his warehouse, it would have made no difference—he expected it to be delivered to him in the course of a day or two—I had samples produced at the time of purchase—those, samples would represent the bulk which he was going to send me—I gave him the cheque on 17th September, in consequence of the wheat I had bought of him—I always paid him when I bought of him—I gave it in payment of the wheat I had bargained for—on 1st of October, I met the defendant in Mark-lane as usual—on that occasion I bought of him 450 quarters—the price per quarter was then 67s.—I had not at that time received the accumulation of the previous purchases—I do not think I have received any of that last purchase—I have since made application to him for it, not of that particular parcel—with the exception of twenty-one quarters, I think I have not received any that I bought on 17th and 27th August and 1st October—I received twenty quarters out of that bought on 17th September, and I received forty quarters, I see, before that (referring to his book) out of the lot bought on 27th August—that would be sixty-one
quarters—it was sent in irregularly—I have occasionally asked him if he bad got the wheat all right and safe, and he has said he had—that was after the purchases—I gave him the cheque on 1st October, in consequence of the 450 quarters I bought of him—at the time I used to pay for it I expected he had either got the wheat, or that it was about to be delivered—I know he used to buy wheat at different markets, and it was not always all delivered at his place at the time I paid him—I know that from what he told me at the time.
COURT. Q. You said just now that, at the time of each bargain, there was nothing said about where the wheat was? A. No; he would bring samples, and say I have bought so and so, or I have so and so to sell—I did not always ask him the question as to where it was—I expected he had got it, or that it was about to be delivered to him.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose the transactions you have now mentioned were conducted in the same way as your other dealings with him for upwards of ten years? A. Yes; just the same—my dealings with him have amounted to about 25,800l. per year, upon an average, for the last six years—it has all been delivered to me correctly previous to this—I asked no particular questions on those occasions—it always had been carried out right, and therefore I thought this would—between 27th August and 10th November, I should say there were upwards of 1,000 quarters to be delivered—nearly 2,000—that would be about 5,000l. in money—the three sums in question amount to about 4,000l.—between 1st October and his bankruptcy, I think I received about 900 quarters from him out of that—there were a great many fluctuations in the prices of corn last year—in April I think I gave him 52s., and it went up to 78s.—that was, I think, in November—in June I gave him 53s., and in October 67s.—it was 62s. or 63s. in August, 65s. in September, and 67s. in October—the price kept advancing almost every week after 1st October—I know Mr. Nash—I recollect bargaining with him for some wheat, and my saying I would rather it came from Bassett—I saw Bassett in London on the eve of the declaration of insolvency—I think it was on the 9th—he then told me that he had not any more wheat that he could send me—he said that he was in a very wretched state of mind about it—the price of wheat was going up at that time—I told him I thought he had about 1,200 or 1,300 quarters of my wheat to deliver—he asked me to go down to his place and take possession of all he had got—I believe he said, "I wish you to come down to-morrow morning and bring your solicitor with you"—I do not think he said to take possession of all he had—I do not recollect that—I think it likely that he might say so—he seemed in a very distressed state of mind—I think, on one or two occasions, there were one or two little parcels of wheat delivered inferior to sample, and some deduction was made—I did not hear the bankrupt examined—when I purchased a lot of wheat of him it was scarcely ever delivered at one time—it ranged over some interval—I did not go over his books when I went down to his house—he did not show them to me—he showed me a statement that he had—I do not recollect its appearing from that statement that he had sustained losses of nearly 3,000l. within the last year.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you ever buy any wheat of him without believing that the bulk existed either in his warehouse or in the hands of the farmer with whom he had a contract? A. Certainly; I always believed that—I believed that he was able to deliver it either then or at some subsequent time—it was on the 10th that I went down with my solicitor, and it was
then that the declaration of insolvency was made—the conversation on the 9th was in consequence of his telling me that he had no more wheat for me—I had been pressing him to send wheat faster—he had not been sending it so fast as usual—he had offered me a fresh lot for sale, on 5th November in the same way—by sample—I declined to buy that; and told him I wished to have the wheat he had in hand delivered before I bought any more, in consequence of the price having got up so much.
COURT. Q. Did you always believe that he had the control of the corn you purchased? A. Yes; or that he would have it in a short time—I had no distrust—I believed when I bought it that it was in his power to send it to me—I always expected that he had either bought it or had it by him, that he had either contracted for it or had it—I do not think that any of the 2,000 quarters delivered between 27th August and his bankruptcy were upon the contracts that I have been speaking of—I think they were upon previous contracts—some of them were made in June, and there were two or three parcels bought in the beginning of July—notwithstanding the delivery of those 2,000 quarters, I am still left fully 1,200 quarters short—I should say nearly all those undelivered 1,200 quarters are upon the three contracts that I have mentioned. (The examination of the bankrupt, with reference to his transactions with Mr. Dives, was here put in and read).
HENRY MERCER . I am a miller, carrying on business at Denham, near Uxbridge—I have been in the habit of dealing with the defendant for some years—I am in the habit of attending Uxbridge-market on Thursdays—on 11th June last, I purchased 200 quarters of wheat from the defendant in Mark-lane, at 68s. a quarter—I bought it by sample—in the first instance I bought 200 quarters in the bulk, and on 11th June he offered me 200 quarters of very fine wheat, which I purchased—at that moment, he said it was in the farmer's barn—I was full of wheat at that time, and told him so—I said I did not want it at present, I could not take it, and would he keep it for me—he said it would suit him better; he was in no hurry to deliver it—none of it was delivered up to 10th September—I then saw the defendant again in Mark-lane, and he asked me to give him 400l. on account of it—I gave him a cheque for 300l.—he said that he had the wheat; that it was all right, all safe; that it was in his possession quite safe—I cannot say the precise words he used; but he said it was quite safe, because I objected to give him so much money on account, he owing me a considerable sum besides; and he said it was quite safe in his possession, that it would be all right, and in good condition—he used the words "in his possession"—perhaps "possession" might not have been the word he used—I think he said it was in his warehouse—I consider that the same—I believed at that time that it was in his warehouse, or in his possession—I gave him the cheque because he said he had the wheat—I told him to deliver 50 quarters of it—he said he would—he did not do so; he only delivered 25, and that he did not deliver till several days after I requested him to do so—he said he was very busy at the time, delivering wheat—I heard of his difficulties on 8th November, and on the 9th I went and saw him at his own house at Uxbridge—I told him I had heard that he was in difficulties, and I wanted to know where my wheat was—he said it was gone, he had not got it—I asked him if he had any wheat of his own that he could substitute for that—he told me he had 41 1/2 quarters which he could let me have—I sent for it to his warehouse at Uxbridge, but did not get it—I got no other than the 25 quarters I have spoken of.
Cross-examined. Q. Before 11th June, when you purchased the 200
quarters, and September, when you gave him the cheque, had the price of wheat gone up very considerably? A. Yes; I bought it at 68s., and in September I think it was about 74s.—I had frequently seen him between 11th June and September—I know that he stated in his examination before the Commissioner that he understood me to ask him for 25 quarters only; but I did ask him for 50—the 25 quarters were sent on 22d September—it was on 9th November that he told me he had 41 1/2 quarters—I sent for that on the following morning, the 10th—it was about 8 o'clock in the evening on the 9th that I saw him—he told me that Mr. Dives had been down—I sent for the wheat at 8 o'clock next morning—between 10th September and his bankruptcy I had no other transactions with him on his own account—I might have, as a commission man, for wheat that the sold in the market on commission; but I cannot tell whether I had or not—if I had it was farmers' wheat, and I paid for it immediately; but I do not think I had—I have had dealings with him for fifteen years, to the extent of some thousands—it has been 1,500l. a year sometimes—I always found him correct up to this time; the wheat was always delivered according to bargain—I had other transactions with him between 11th June and 10th September—he told me on 11th June that he did not want the money then, that I could give it him when the wheat was delivered—I bought some wheat of him on 28th August, and on 1st September I gave him a cheque for 503l.—the 300l. that I gave him would pay for about 100 of the 200 quarters that he had sold me, or something under that—I think about 340l. would have been the half—the understanding was, that he was to deliver the remainder and to settle my account, which was very considerable—my dealings with him altogether might amount to 50,000l., or nearly so—I did not always buy from him in the same way—I always paid immediately on the delivery of the corn—I have not paid before delivery—I might have done so once or twice, but not frequently, certainly—when I saw him on the 19th he appeared in great distress of mind—I am quite sure that he said on 10th September the wheat was in his warehouse, not the farmer's warehouse—I used the term "possession," because I consider being in his possession and in his warehouse synonymous—I am sure he said nothing on 10th September about the wheat being in the farmer's barn.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was the corn for which you gave him the cheque for 503l. in September, delivered at the same time? A. It was a balance of account, and for 50 quarters of wheat and 35 quarters of wheat bought on 28th August; it had nothing whatever to do with the 200 quarters. (That part of the examination of the bankrupt relating to the transaction with Mr. Mercer was here put in and read.)
JOHN NASH . I am a farmer at Langley, in Buckinghamshire—I have had transactions with the defendant. On 10th October I met him in Uxbridge-market, and sold him 100 quarters of wheat at 72s. a quarter—I delivered it on the 11th and 12th; 150 sacks or 75 quarters on the 11th, and 50 sacks or 25 quarters on the 12th—according to the practice I should have been paid for that on the following market-day—I saw the defendant the next market-day, the 18th, and asked him for payment of the 100 quarters of wheat—it was 360l.—he said it was not convenient for him then, as he was busy, but if I would call in the afternoon he would pay me—I told him I could not call in the afternoon as I was going down to Weston-super-Mare by the 2 o'clock train—he then said, "Well, I suppose it will do as well if I pay it in to your account at Hull's this afternoon"—I said it would do as well—he had done so several times before—on the following Thursday, 25th
October, I saw him again—I had not then seen my pass-book—I sold him another 100 quarters of wheat on that occasion at 75s., amounting to 385l—I delivered 40 quarters of that on 26th October, 40 quarters on the 27th and 20 on the 29th—I did not at that time know that he was in difficulties—I believed he was dealing as a tradesman in the ordinary course of business.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you been dealing with him? A. Fifteen or twenty years—not to a very large amount. (The bankrupt examination with reference to this transaction was put in and read.)
BENJAMIN HENRY WALPOLE WAY . I have an estate at Denham, near Uxbridge—I am a member of the Bar—I have been in the habit of dealing with the defendant, and so was my father before me—I placed samples in his hands, leaving him to effect sales, and then deliver according to sample—prior to 2d November I had placed samples of corn in his hands for the purpose of effecting sales for me—that was done through my steward on 2d November—I gave my steward directions about the price—on 3d November I received this letter from the defendant, dated the 2d—(Read: "Uxbridge, November 2d, 1860. Sir,—I have sold your wheat at 19l. 10s. the best, and 18l. the other; I have sent to your steward about delivering it, as he wished me. D. Basset.")—In consequence of receiving that letter I gave instructions to my steward to deliver the bulk according to the samples—I should not have parted with the bulk unless I had believed the prisoner had sold it for me—the value of it was about 291l. I think—I have not received any portion of that, except a dividend of 3s. 6d.—part of the corn went to Mr. Kelser's mill, I believe, after the declaration of insolvency, and was ultimately recovered, but not from the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. You did get a portion back? A. I got the money for a portion of it—I cannot recollect how much; I do not believe it was more than 40l.—I was in debt to the defendant, I think about 80l. at this time—he ought to have paid me the 291l.—I looked to him for the money—I never named to him a price for the wheat except once, and that was in consequence of his having sold it at 2l. less than it was worth the time before—he did not pay me the difference—I had named the price on 2d November—it was 19l. 10s. and 18l., and the letter states he sold it at that price.
MR. METCALFE, Q. Did you ever part with the bulk unless on a representation from him that he had actually sold it for you? A. Never.
JOSEPH CAVE . I am steward to Mr. Way—on 1st November I attended for him at Uxbridge—I saw the defendant there, and gave him two samples of wheat with instructions to sell one at 19l. 10s., and the other at 18l.—he said he thought they were worth it—in former transactions the bulk had been delivered after the report of the sale by him—it was delivered to him—on 3d November I received a communication from him, and sent 75 1/2 quarters for him to Austin's wharf—that is his warehouse—I have the two delivery tickets.
Cross-examined. Q. Was that the market price at the time? A. Yes; I have been with Mr. Way five years.
GEORGE GARDNER . I am carman to Mr. Way. On 3d November I delivered 75 quarters of wheat at Mr. Bassett's wharf in Uxbridge—I went to his house and got the delivery tickets signed there. (The examnation of the bankrupt with reference to Mr. Way's transaction was put in and rd.)
Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN.—As to the charge with respect to Dives, I think it is
not made out—it does not come within the Bankrupt Act, and the false pretences are not supported. As to Mercer's case, the goods are obtained more than three months from the filing of the petition, therefore there is no offence under the Bankrupt Act, the question will be whether he obtained the 300l. by false pretences; and as to the case of Way, it is one of false pretences or nothing—he does not obtain on credit. With respect to Nash's case, there is no false pretence; but the Bankrupt Act does come into operation there, and in that case only.
Several witnesses deposed to the prisoner's excellent character for many years.
NOT GUILTY .
557. THOMAS JOHN SMITH (19) , Stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, two post letters, containing 2 bills of exchange for 22l. and 15l., and 2 orders for payment of 2l. 4s. 4d. and 32l. 15s., the property of her Majesty's Postmaster-General.
MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CROWTHER . I am clerk to Messrs. Roberts, of Manchester. On 19th June last, I enclosed in a letter a bill of exchange for 15l. 4s. 8d., a second bill for 22l., and a cheque for 2l. 4s. 4d.—after securing the envelope I addressed it to Mr. John Patterson, 104, Wood-street, Cheapside, and gave it to John Roberts, a boy in our employment, to post—this is the bill of exchange for 22l. (produced) which I enclosed in the letter.
REGINALD FLETCHER GOOLDEN . I am one of the firm of Bonser and Goolden, manufacturers, at Manchester. On 19th June I enclosed in a letter a cheque for 32l. 15s. in favour of Mr. John Patterson—I fastened the envelope, and addressed it to Mr. John Patterson, 104, Wood-street, Cheapside, and gave it to Edward Kay to take to the post-office.
EDWARD KAY . I am in the service of Messrs. Bonser and Goolden. On 19th June, at half-past 7, I posted the letters that were given to me by Mr. Goolden—I noticed amongst the others a letter to Mr. Patterson.
JAMES NOTT . I am a clerk in the Manchester post-office—letters posted at Manchester at half-past 7 in the evening for London are despatched that evening—letters for Wood-street, Cheapside, are made up for the Eastern Central district.
JOHN DILLEANEY . I am an inspector of letter-carriers at the General postoffice—letters posted at Manchester on the evening of 19th June would be delivered at the chief office on the following morning about 5 o'clock—Wood-street is in the Eastern Central district—on the morning of 20th June the prisoner was employed as a letter carrier at the General Post-office—he had to deliver letters on that morning in Wood-street, Cheapside—Mr. Patterson's letters are delivered at Truman and Hitchcock's, nearly opposite his warehouse—the prisoner was not present at the post-office on Monday morning, 24th June—he had not leave of absence—he was absent a whole week—I did not see him again till he was in custody at Bow-street.
JOSEPH MORTON . I am warehouseman to Mr. John Patterson, of 104, Wood-street, Cheapside—letters addressed to him are left at Messrs. Truman and Hitchcock's in the morning—those letters are always brought to me—I open them—among the letters that were brought to me on 20th June there was not one from Mr. Roberts of Manchester, containing a bill for 22l., or one from Messrs. Bonser and Goolden, containing a cheque for 32l. 15s.
Prisoner. Q. Did you send for letters to Truman and Hitchcock's from
the 13th to the 20th. A. We always sent; we sent then—the boy calls there every morning—he called every morning that week, and took the letters every morning—you asked me if the boy called, and I told you "Yes."
Prisoner. I put some letters under your door one morning, and a certain party took them out afterwards, that was on Thursday morning. Witness, I do not know anything about that.
SYDNEY HOOPER CARPENTER . I am in the employ of Mr. John Patterson, 104, Wood-street, Cheapside—I fetched his letters of a morning from Messrs. Truman and Hitchcock's nearly opposite—Mr. Patterson's office is down a court with gates at the end—the gates are fastened at that time in the morning, and the letters are left at Truman and Hitchcock's—I went there on the morning of 20th June, to fetch the letters, but whether there were any there I can't say—I go every morning—the letters are left on the counter, and any letters that are given me I take to Mr. Morton.
Prisoner. Q. Did you go that week at all to Messrs. Truman and Hitchcock's? A. Every morning—I got letters several mornings in that week—some were in the box, and some at Truman and Hitchcock's.
MR. CLERK. Q. What box are you speaking of? A. A box at our door—you cannot get to that box in the morning when the gate is closed—I have to go to Truman and Hitchcock's for the first delivery in the morning.
COURT. Q. Are the gates open sometimes? A. I cannot say that; I have never seen them open.
JOHN FITZGIBBON . I live at 21, Sun-street, Russell-street, Bermondsey, S.W., and am a public messenger stationed at the corner of Lothbury—I know the prisoner as being in the service of the Post Office—I remember his coming to me on the morning of 22d June, about 10 o'clock—he gave me a cheque for 22l. on Prescott and Co. and one for 32l. 15s. on Smith, Payne, and Smith—these are them (produced)—I don't know the difference between a cheque and a bill of exchange—the prisoner told me first to go to Prescott's bank and sign the name of "J. Smith" when I got the money, and to receive the money in gold; after that I was to go to Smith, Payne, and Smith's to receive money also—I took the cheque to Prescott's, and signed the name of "John Smith"—this is my signature (referring to the cheque)—the prisoner told me when I got the money to bring it to him at the corner of Wood-street and Gresham-street—I went to Smith, Payne, and Smith's, and they told me that the cheque could not be cashed there, it must be cashed at Manchester—I got no money there—I got 22l. in gold at Prescott's bank—I then went back to the prisoner, and found him at the corner of Wood-street and Gresham-street—I gave him back the cheque and the money, and asked him to count it—he said there was no occasion—I do not know what he did with the cheque—he took it from me—he then gave me half-a-crown, and I lost sight of him altogether—he was not in his post-office dress at the time—he had on the same dress as he has now, with a Scotch cap, and a flower in his coat—I knew him before—I have no doubt he is the person who gave me the cheque—he said he was going to get a situation, from some gentleman, out of the Post Office—at the time he gave me this bill and cheque I considered he was some gentleman's bearer—at the time he gave them to me, he said they were his master's, who was ill.
Prisoner. I was nowhere near Wood-street at half-past 10 that morning—I had been sent somewhere else with some jewellery, to King's-square.
MR. CLERK. Q. How soon after he gave you the two cheques, as you call them, did you go to Prescott's bank? A. About five minutes afterwards—I ran there from Lothbury.
BARNARD BARTON . I am cashier at Messrs. Prescott's and Grote's bank, in Threadneedle-street—on 22d June, about half-past 10, last witness came to the bank and produced this bill of exchange to be cashed—I told him to receipt it, and he wrote the name of "John Smith"—I put the word "receipted" myself, as I saw he had a difficulty in holding the paper with his arm—I paid him in gold—I might have put it in a bag, but I do not recollect.
WILLIAM SMEE . I am an officer attached to the General Post-office—I took the prisoner into custody at his lodgings in Aldersgate-street, about 1 o'clock on the morning of Monday, the 1st July—I had been there previously—I first went on Wednesday, the 26th, and again on Friday and Saturday, but he was not there on either of those days—I took him. to the Post Office on 1st July—when I took him about 10 o'clock, he was asked if be knew what the charge was against him—he said, "No"—he was told that he was charged with stealing this bill out of a letter—the bill was then on the table—he said, "I know nothing of the letter, nor yet the bill"—I then called in the messenger, Fitzgibbon, and he was asked, in the presence of the prisoner, whether he was the man who gave him the bill—Fitzgibbon said, "Yes; he is the man who gave me the bill and asked me to get gold for it"—the prisoner said, "Yes; I gave him the bill and received the money, but I did not steal the letter"—he said, "I met a man that morning," meaning Saturday morning, "in Wood-street, who told me that I had delivered three letters wrong, and he broke them open and found this bill, and asked me to get it cashed"—that he said he could not do that, but be should go to the chief office and report him for breaking the letters open—the gentleman then said, "You must not do that, you must go and get this cashed, or send a messenger, if not, I shall lose my place;" and he took the bill from the gentleman and gave it to Fitzgibbon to get it changed—he then received the money and took it to the gentleman, who gave him 5l. for his trouble—the prisoner was then asked if he knew who this gentleman was—he said he did not know his name, or where he lived, he had seen him before, and he believed him to be a commercial man—as I was taking him to the police-station, he said, "If I had known this, I would not have been here; but I know there are three of us in the mess, and I was so miserable yesterday, when I was down at my father's, that I thought I would come back and chance it"—I then said, "If there are three of you in the mesa, who are the other two?"—he said, "I shall not tell you now; you will know before my trial."
JOHN DILLEANEY (re-examined). I remember sending the prisoner with a jeweller's packet, addressed to a jeweller, to King's-square, which he had delivered at Wood-street, but I cannot say what morning it was—it was about ten minutes' past 10, because I had to wait till he came with his 10 o'clock collection.
Prisoner's Defence. Fitzgibbon said that he gave me the money in Wood-street at half-past 10 o'clock; Mr. Dilleaney sent me on a message to King's-square; I left the office, and when I got outside, I met a policeman, and he was with me from ten minutes past 10 till ten minutes past 11; so I was not near Wood-street at that time—I told Fitzgibbon that I was going to the Cape of Good Hope with another man, which I was; I had my private coat on when I gave him the money—he says I said I was employed by another man, which I never mentioned; I was to give him 2l. for cashing the cheque, which he had; he says he only had half-a-crown; I was to have
5l. myself; I did not steal the letters, and did not take the cheque out of the letters; I had the cheque given to me to get it cashed.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, July 9th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. BARON BRAMWELL; Mr. Ald. ROSE, and Mr. Ald. GABRIEL.
558. JOHN DURDIN (45), and JAMES HOLCROFT (50) , Stealing the sums of 142l. 5s., 160l., and 60l. 8s., 6d. the property of Mark Hunter, one of the public officers of the Commercial Bank, in his dwelling-house.
MESSRS. GIFFARD, POLAND, and H. GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.
MR. POLAND. Q. Are these (produced) the three calendars? A. Yes; the his casting of 30,000l. is in Durdin's figures.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY (for Durdin). Q. I believe it is the duty of all the clerks to honour cheques over the counter? A. Not more than two—there are two cashiers, and when one was away it was the duty either of Mr. Holl or myself, before the discovery of the fraud, to take the cashier's place—generally speaking, there were only two clerks who honoured cheques: but if one was out of the way, another clerk might assist—a clerk honouring a cheque over the counter, has the means of referring to the calendars or the ledger, to see whether the account is overdrawn; he would there see whether the person who had drawn a cheque, had a balance to his credit, unless it was not cleared; but if the amount had been paid in bank notes or gold, the cheque would be paid at once—each clerk as he pays a cheque makes an entry, in the paying-book, of the details—he enters the name, the amount, and how he paid it—it would not invariably happen that the same person who paid the cheque made the entry, because on Saturday, when the bank is very full, another person might assist; but the usual course is for the same hand which pays the money to make the entry—accounts are occasionally overdrawn by the authority of the manager—I know of instances of clerks paying cheques for which there are no effects in the bank—the usual course in that instance is to write to the party to rectify the error as soon as possible—I do not remember any instance where the error has been unable to be rectified.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did not you say that Durdin told you he had made bond fide advances to Holcroft, and that Holcroft was largely in his debt? A. I understood that the 6,000l. of bills represented advances to Holcroft—I understood him that he had lent money to Holcroft, and that Holcroft was his debtor—when Holcroft was brought into the room in the bank, I probably addressed him, and said, "I suppose you know what your position is, "or something to that effect—I think it is on the Judge's notes; to which he, I think, replied, "I am quite prepared to give you an explanation of how I became acquainted with Durdin"—I am not prepared to say that he said so in so many words, but that was the substance—I asked him for no explanation—I told him that I required no information—I refused it—I understood Durdin to say that he accomplished
this fraud by making use of his own account, and also Holcroft's—there was a person named Joel, who had an account, and also a person named Etches—the accounts of Joel and Etches have not been the subjects of inquiry by me—the accounts that Durdin is accused of having tampered with, have been investigated—Durdin had not generally the power to make entries in the cash-book, and in the calendar, and cheque one against the other with himself—he had not the power to do so if he pleased; only under express orders—he was a ledger keeper, but was not the cashier—you are speaking of the cash-book—if he receives money at the counter and enters it in the cash-book, he would carry it into the ledger—that would be the next entry.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Explain the nature of the operations upon those gentlemen's accounts? A. I only know it second-hand—I do not believe that Joel or Etches were falsely credited, but I do not speak from my own knowledge, only from what I have heard in Court during the former trial, and from the accountants when they were at work on the books.
MR. POLAND. Q. Are these (produced) the six promissory notes you spoke of as signed by Holcroft? A. They are, and these are the fourteen cheques—on the fame occasion that Durdin gave them to me, I received seven other promissory notes drawn by D.A. Ramsay, on 31st January, 1861; the total amount of them is 3,089l. 11s. 10d.—Durdin at the same time gave me this letter (produced)—he said that this agreement was a settlement of a debt of Ramsay's, an agreement which he had entered into for the future. (A letter and envelope were here produced, which Mr. Chauncey stated were in Durdin's writing)—Durdin was not more a confidential clerk than any other clerk—his duties were not of a very responsible character.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Can you tell us when you first read the agreement? A. At the time I received it from Durdin—I said nothing about it on the last occasion—Ramsay's matters were not inquired into at all—his name was not mentioned in my examination—Durdin sent down the particulars of the mortgage through Mr. Ramsay on the Monday or Tuesday following—no charge has been made against Ramsay by the Commercial Bank—Durdin endorsed the promissory notes of Holcroft, at my request—it was on the 15th that I went to Durdin, and he was apprehended a few days, or it may be a week afterwards—I do not know what family he has; only from hearsay—his, was a very comfortable respectable house, of medium size—I do not know the salary that each clerk receives, but I inquired immediately afterwards what salary Durdin received—the Directors audit the accounts once every quarter, and call over all the bills—there are not regular auditors on the part of the shareholders.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Durdin has been ten years in the bank as ledger keeper: he was a person who had the respect and esteem of everybody in the bank? A. Yes; there was no imputation against him whatever—he produced these securities in answer to my inquiry what property he had belonging to the bankrupt—he produced them as property—he said that Ramsay was the agent through whom the money had been expended, and that he was a builder.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. The bank have declined to accept that property I believe? A. Yes; they considered that it was mortgaged up to the very extent that it was worth. Letter read—"London, 10th February, 1861. Sir,—The property in houses of which I spoke last night, consists of forty-one
leasehold houses in the neighbourhood of Westbourneterrace, nearly finished, and not quite all let; but the present rentals cover the interest on mortgage and ground rent, leaving about 500l. to spare—when the first leases are out, they will let at a considerable advance as they have been already let in an unfinished neighbourhood—the property is mortgaged for 32,170l., the present rental is 2,633l., the interest and ground rent 2,130l.—the estimated gross rental will be 4,897l.—there are also twelve houses in the country unencumbered, producing 188l. a year—I can also, if allowed, make up 400l. or 500l. a year in addition—I have about 10,000l. in bills and cheques, which will eventually be money—now if the Directors will advance me the money on my P.N. or otherwise, to clear off, and take what I have as security, that may save me, if not—but no, it is too horrible to contemplate for my family—if my family can be spared the disgrace, I don't ask more than necessities for them; all the rest shall be devoted towards extinguishing my debt with gratitude—I would have sent some one to you on my behalf, but I pray that I may be spared the pain of third parties' knowledge—I am, Sir, in great affliction, John Durdin. To C.A.W. Chauncey, Esq., 6, Henrietta-street, Covent-garden.")
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Why did you take Holcroft to Mr. Chauncey? A. On the night previous I had received information, and took him there that Mr. Chauncey might charge him in the ordinary way—Mr. Chauncey said, "What have you brought him here for?" but I could not charge him myself with felony—when I went to Holcroft's house, Ramsay came in while I was there—this (produced) is one of the account books that I found—it contains my initials, and the date upon which I took it.
Cross-examined by Mr. SLEIGH. Q. There were some other bills of exchange, I believe, at the bottom of the bag? A. Yes; there are other papers which I have not produced, if you wish to see them—there are several papers which I found on Durdin which have not been produced, but they have no relation to Holcroft at all—I do not recollect a conversation between Holcroft and Mr. Chauncey in which he offered to give an explanation; but I was not there all the while—I took him to the bank, and was close to him the whole of the time—if Mr. Chauncey says that he offered to give an explanation, I am afraid that is a mistake—I heard Mr. Chauncey say so to-day, but I was present all the time, and am quite clear that it did not take place—it was I that said, "Probably he will give you every explanation"—I do not know whether Mr. Chauncey dreamt it, but it did not take place in my presence, and I can give you a reason for it—I cannot say whether Mr. Chauncey was present with Durdin at the police station, when I was not—I sent for him to the bank, and he came to the police station—I took Holcroft to the bank prior to taking him to the police station, but neither at the bank nor at the station did that conversation take place—I left the station after Holcroft was taken there, after the conversation which his Lordship read, and I went to Holcroft's house—on the way to the station I asked Holcroft if he hadany explanation to give, and said, "Now is the time"—he said that other persons had paid money in to his account—I asked him who they were, and he gave me no answer—by that time I got to the station with him, and the conversation ceased.
Holcroft. I said nothing of the kind; the whole of this is incorrect.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Where was it you asked who the gentleman was that he was in partnership with? A. In the station—Mr. Chauncey was present
then—that is the only question I put to him at the station—he answered, "I do not think I ought to tell you that"
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is this (produced) the list of creditors? A. Yes.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You were asked a question on the former trial, and said you could not ascertain that he was doing a good trade, and so forth; is there anything by which you know where any considerable sum has gone; did you trace any speculative transactions? A. None whatever—I did not go to the Bankruptcy Court—the private arrangement fell to the ground, but I got his protection for him when I filed that—I compiled the list of creditors, filed it, and got him his protection—I filed it so that I might write to the creditors.
COURT. Q. You say he seemed to be doing a good business? A. Yes—I cannot tell where the money has gone—his books only showed the receipt of goods which came in—I merely saw the creditor ledger—for anything I know there might have been some bad debts or losses.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you go thoroughly through Holcroft's accounts? A. I did; they presented to my professional eye the ordinary accounts of a man carrying on business—there were the usual hooks employed, ledgers, bill-books, and other books—I ascertained in the course of my investigation, that he had, at various times, made bad debts—I had to prepare a statement of bad debts to be submitted to the Secretary of the London Joint Stock Bank, before I could get their consent to the composition—he has lost several thousand pounds—my investigation of the hooks extended over about ten years—the debits and credits amounted to several thousand pounds in the whole—I cannot give you the amount per annum—a person named Gardner was the principal creditor—his account alone, as far as my memory serves me, was 4,000l. or 5,000l. per annum, irrespective of the other persons with whom he traded—the trading with Gardner extended over several years—the amount of bad debts was about 12,000l.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. What period did your investigation extend over? A. Nine or ten years—I had to go back that date to satisfy the London Joint Stock Bank.
COURT. Q. Did he seem to be doing a good trade? A. Yes—all the hooks bear evidence that he did a large trade—I did not prepare a profit and loss account; but the principal losses were the bad debts—I discovered them by going through the ledger, and I referred to Holcroft himself—the average amount of bad debts was about 12,000l. (Looking at a memorandum)—he owed 4,147l., and his deficiency was 3,200l.—the result of that would be, that he must have lost and paid 9,000l. out of profits and out of assets—if his bad debts were 12,000l. and his deficiencies 3,200l. supposing he had started with nothing and had got nothing left, he must, in that case, have made 9,000l. of profits in the interim, or had 9,000l. lent him, or something of that kind—I do not know how that was, as I did not prepare a profit and loss account showing the profits on the sales.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you see any cash-account? A. No; but there is the banker's book—throughout the whole of the books Durdin's and
Ramsay's names did not appear—I last saw these books about October—I had not the gross amount of bad debts carried out—I left the statement with the Secretary of the London Joint Stock Bank—you can take this as proximately correct.
EDWARD LITTLE . I am cashier at the Henrietta-street branch of the Commercial Bank—I cashed a cheque for 142l. 5s., drawn by James Hol-croft and Co.—I have not got the cheque here, merely a memorandum—I paid it with a 100l. note, No. 26,188, dated 19th May, 1860, two 20l. notes, 71,853 and 71,865, both dated 21st June, 1860, and 2l. 5s. in money—on 3d January, 1861, I paid a cheque for 30l., drawn by Holcroft and presented by the Union Bank of London—it was part of the sum of 81l. 16s. 2d. presented by that bank—I paid it by a cheque on our city office, the bank in Lothbury.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Can you tell me who presented the first cheque? A. I cannot.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Can you tell me whether any other cheque was presented that day? A. I can, by reference to the ledgers—there were two cheques paid on 3d January, 30l. 8s. 6d. and 30l.
LEWIS HENRY BRAHAM . I am a solicitor, of 12, Furnival's Inn—I had an acceptance of Holcroft's for 144l. 13s. 4d. drawn by Freen and Co.—Freen is Mr. Ramsay; he trades as "Freen and Co."—it is dated 10th May, and became due on 13th December—it was discounted by me, but not for the deposit bank—it was not paid when due, and I commenced an action a writ was issued and judgment signed on 29th September, 1860—on 4th October the amount of the debt and costs, 149l., was paid to me by Mr. Ramsay, with, I think, a 100l. note, two 20l. notes, and the rest in cash; whatever it was I paid it in to my account with the London and Westminster Bank on the following day.
THOMAS DYSON . I was one of the cashiers of the Henrietta-street branch of the Commercial Bank of London—I know both the prisoners—Durdin was the ledger clerk—I first knew Holcroft ten or eleven years back; it may be a year or two more—the first account of Durdin was opened in February, 1849, and closed on 26th May, 1853; the second was opened on 22d April in the name of John Durdin M. and closed on 3d May, 1853; the third was opened on 27th May, 1853, in the name of John Durdin, administrator, and closed on 19th October, 1853—(MR. BESLEY objected that this did not apply to the three specific larcenies in 1860 and 1861; but THE COURT considered that the prosecution could go into the whole matter from the beginning)—Holcroft's first account was opened on 2d December, 1851, in the name of James Holcroft, and closed on 26th May, 1853; the second was opened on 26th May, 1853, in the name of James Holcroft and Co., and closed on 1st October, 1860; the third was opened on 1st October, 1860, in the name of James Holcroft, and is open at the time—Durdin kept the account in each case in which his account was entered—he did so all through, as far as the ledger is concerned—the first credit to Holcroft on 2d December, 1851, is 150l. that is in Durdin's writing—the amount of which that 150l. consisted would appear by the waste-book, which I, being cashier, had nothing to do with—I receive money at the counter—all cash I receive I enter in the cash-book, I simply put down "James Holcroft 150l." the ticket is then placed in a box, and the clerk takes it out of that box and inscribes it in the waste-book, which is not in my writing—the next account, 26th May, 1853, commences with 90l. 12s. 3d., that is carried from the old ledger and is in Durdin's writing—the third account begins with 138l.
12s. 6d.; that appears to be carried from the account which closed on that day, and is in Durdin's writing—the whole of this book is in Durdin's writing; all the ledgers D to M for the last ten or twelve years—there is a ledger since the discovery of the fraud in February, 1861—I cashed the cheque of 23d October, drawn by Holcroft on his account for 160l.; I paid it with a 10l. note, 37,625, May 19th, 1860; a 50l. note, 50,579, June 20th, 1860; and 10l. in cash—on 3d January, 1861, I cashed a cheque drawn by Holcroft for 30l. 8s. 6d.—I cannot say by this book to whom it was payable—I paid it with a 20l. note, 17,050, November 21st, 1860; a 10l. note, 32,667, October 22d, 1860; and 8s. 6d. in cash—I have an account of cheques and bills of Holcroft's returned unpaid during the year 1860—here is "James Holcroft 158l., Curries," on the back (produced), the commencement of the account is, I think, in Mr. Cadogan's writing, who was the manager at the time—I have not calculated the amount of Holcroft's returned cheques and bills; the entries are in the writing of the cashier, who returns them; some are in mine—the letters "N.S." on the greater number of them mean "not sufficient;" that we had some money, but not sufficient; for example, on June 20th, 1860, we had a cheque for 5l. refused, on the ground of there not being sufficient cash—there are a great variety of these varying in amount, some small and some large.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you got the item of 20th June before you? A. I have—I should not have returned it if there had been cash to meet it—there is a balance by the pass-book, but you can never tell by looking at the pass-book—some people like to have their credits entered in the pass-book, and keep it in their pocket; bat in others it does not show at all—the date that it is paid is filled up afterwards—here is 100l. the next item to it, which appears to be credited as paid—the 5l. preceding it, on the very same date, is entered a week afterwards—some persons only bring their books once in three months—we do not enter into the book cheques which are dishonoured—the book is made up, and would tell the true state of the account as well as the ledger would, but not at 12 o'clock in the day, when this cheque would be returned—the pass-book ought to be a faithful transcript of the ledger—the account in 1851, 150l. in money, appears with the credit of bills of exchange discounted 187l., but not the same day—the following day there were discounts—they may have been paid for on the 2d along with the money, and not given credit for till they were passed by the directors—Holcroft paid in several small amounts: 50l., 60l., 100l., and 150l.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Be kind enough to tell me whether all the entries in the pass-book as debits to Holcroft, or cheques honoured, correspond with cheques which were at one time in the hands of the bank? A. The pass-book is written up from the cheques, and is checked by the ledger afterwards—they must correspond with one another.
MR. GIPPARD. Q. How often had Holcroft his pass-book? A. Two or three times a week.
ALEXANDER LEE INNES . I am one of the clerks in the Bloomsbury Branch of the London and Westminster Bank—Mr. Lewis Henry Braham keeps an account there—there was paid in to his account on 5th October last, a 100l. note, 26,188 May 19th, 1860, a 20l. note, 71,853 June 21st, 1860, and another 20l. note of the same date, No. 71,865.
CYRIL MORTIMER MURRAY RAWLINS . I am an attorney, of 13, Finsbury-square, and Clerk to Messrs. Clark, Morris, and Clark, of Coleman-street—they are attorneys for the London Joint Stock Bank, who brought an action
against James Holcroft, on a bill of exchange drawn on L. H. Braham by James Holcroft—I produce the writ of summons—it is dated 12th September, 1860—it is accepted Holcroft, and Co.—the action was settled on 23d October, by Mr. David Allan Ramsay, who paid the amount of debt and costs to me—I paid it over to our cashier, Mr. Hill, on the same day, for Ramsay.
EDWARD CHAMBERLAIN . I am clerk to Mr. Howard, an attorney, of 9, Quality-court, Chancery-lane. On 3d January, there was an acceptance from Mr. Millard for 61l. 10s. lying at Mr. Howard's office—it was taken up, and the money was paid into the Temple-bar Branch of the Union Bank, to the credit of Mr. Howard—(The credit slip was here produced by Mr. Walker) I do not think I paid it in—the clerk is here who did—I wrote the credit-slip—that is a portion of the money that took up Mr. Millard's acceptance—more than that was paid in.
WILLIAM WALKER . I am a clerk at the Union Bank, Temple-bar Branch—I have got the particulars of what was paid into Mr. Howard's account, of Quality-court, on 4th January, 1861—I have got a 20l. note, 17,060, November 21, 1860, and a 10l. note, 32,667, October 22d, 1860—I credited that to Mr. Howard's account.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. I believe, in the month of January, 1861, there was an acceptance of your's drawn by Mr. Holcroft, lying at Mr. Howard's, of Quality-court? A. Yes—I went to Mr. Howard on the day it was due, 31st December, in reference to taking it up—he said he could not do anything towards it, and referred me to Mr. Durdin—I went to Mr. Durdin, and a bill was drawn for 32l. 10s.—I gave him the renewed bill for 32l. 10s., and the rest in money—Durdin gave me the money, which was 30l., at the Commercial Bank, Henrietta-street, on 3d January—he gave me 30l. in notes, and some in small money—he did not give me all that I gave to Holcroft—I took up the bill—I gave the 32l. 10s. bill to Durdin, and he cashed it for me.—Holcroft's bill was 61l. 10s.—he kept that—he only gave me 30l.—I made up the rest myself—the 30l. that Durdin gave me, and what I made up myself, I took to Mr. Chamberlain and made up the amount.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. Was Holcroft's name to the bill? A. Yes—I do not recollect where Durdin took the money from, but I think he took it from a cashier—he was not acting as cashier at the time—he took the bill from my hand—I do not know what he did with it—I did not see him go into an inner office.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How many years have you known him? A. Since 1848, and up to 1860 I did business with him annually to a considerable amount—I understood from Holcroft, in 1860, that he was being peculiarly assisted in his business by a friend—I had heard him say occasionally that the friend who had lent him money to assist him in business was Durdin—when Holcroft referred me to Durdin about the bill, he said he could not do anything for it on his own account, but he had spoken to his friend Durdin, and if I went there he thought Durdin would assist—he always told me that Durdin had assisted him to a very large amount before—Holcroft has always borne the character of an honourable, well-conducted man.
JAMES HILLS . I am cashier to Messrs. Clark, Morris, and Clark, attorneys, in Coleman-street—I have got a rough cash-book here—Rawlins gave me an amount on 23d October; the sum total was 156l. 11s. 5d.—there was a 100l. note, 37,625, May 19th, 1860; a 50l. note, 50,579, of June 20th, 1860, and the rest in cash.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were these bills to which you refer Holcroft's trade bills? A. They were drawn by Holcroft on his customers, and amount to between 2,000l. and 3,000l.—we had discounted trade bills of Holcroft's for four or five years—they came to me from Mr. Ramsay, who told me he received them from Durdin—when Ramsay called on me with reference to procuring a loan on the security of a bill of sale, he was alone—I never saw Durdin in company with him—Ramsay is the person with whom I negotiated, and I returned the money to him on the negotiation not being carried out.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is Mr. Ramsay here to-day? A. Yes—this (produced) is the bill of sale.
THOMAS VALENTINE HEUTSON . I am a clerk at Messrs. Currie's bank, 29, Cornhill—this (produced) is Holcroft's pass-book—he opened his account on November 21st, 1850—I find a credit on 2d December for 110l., but for that sum on the 2d there would not have been assets to meet a cheque for 150l. on the 3d, not taking the whole transaction; but there would be on the 3d, because there was money paid in to meet it—striking out the 110l. there would not have been enough assets to meet the 150l.
COURT. Q. If nothing had been paid in on the 3d, there would not have been money enough to meet the drawings-out of the 3d? A. The transactions of the 2d would not have been sufficient to pay the transactions of the 3d.; even with the 110l. we should not have had enough—it was the paying in of the 3d that enabled us to pay the payings-out; leaving a trifling balance—it is some time ago since I was at Messrs. Currie's—I can hardly recollect what I was there—my evidence is secondary, the party being dead.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. I want the book by which you can tell me of what that 150l. consisted? A. May I step down and look for it—the books are here, but some party has neglected to bring them up. (The witness went to search for them.)
THOMAS DYSON (re-examined). This entry of 110l. in this book (produced) is my writing—it represents a cheque drawn by Durdin on the Commercial Bank, and paid to Currie & Co. in a charge of 176l. 10s.—it was paid on 3d December, 1851.
COURT. Q. We have heard that Mr. Millard went to the bank, saw Durdin, and got the money for it; that is not the way in which the Bank discounts bills? A. Certainly not; if he got money he would have a cheque cashed at the counter; but a bill would have to be submitted to the committee and cashed the next day—Durdin had not authority to discount a bill for Holcroft as a customer of the bank.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. I believe for some years the bank have not discounted bills for Holcroft? A. Not for five, six, or seven years.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it that the bank declined to go on discounting? A. I cannot say.
WILLIAM HENRY PIKE . I am a clerk to the Life Insurance, Treasury Deposit, and Insurance Bank, 5, Cannon-street, West—I know Durdin; he opened an account there about September, 1856, which remained open till
February this year—this cheque for 300l. dated 19th October, and payable to Self, is drawn by Durdin on the bank—I paid 300l. upon it on the 20th—I gave five 50l. notes, Nos. 59,952 to 56 inclusive, dated 20th June, 1860; a 20l. note, 09,804, September 21st, 1860; a 20l. note, 75,419, April, 1860; and a 10l. note, 92,261, July 24th, 1860—I have got a cheque for 30l. dated 1st September, 1860(produced) drawn by Holcroft on the Commercial Bank—it is credited to Durdin's account at our bank on 20th September—that it the only credit on that day—it has not the name of the drawer—I cannot say that this is the identical cheque—it was paid into the London and County Bank; our agents.
Q. Do you know that without reference to any book? A. Not without reference to any book—I think the gentleman who made that statement is here; Mr. Modena—(The cheque was crossed "London and County Bank.")—I can say that the 30l. credited to Durdin on 21st September was a cheque on the Commercial Bank; I credited it myself—I cannot tell by whom it was drawn—on 25th September 70l. is credited to Durdin by a cheque on the Commercial Bank, and on 26th September 56l. 8s. 2d. by, I think, a cheque on the Commercial Bank; on 27th September a sum of 50l. is credited to Durdin's account by a cheque on the Commercial Bank; on 9th October 100l. is credited to Durdin's account by a cheque on the Commercial Bank; on 11th October 15l. 1s. 9d. is credited to Durdin's account by a cheque on the Commercial Bank—this (produced) is Durdin's pass book—unless the sums I have just spoken about had been paid in, there would not have been money enough to have honoured the cheque for 300l. on 20th October by some considerable amount—I know Holcroft; I have seen him at our bank; he kept a discount account there some two or three yean ago—I do not think we did anything for him after the middle of 1859 to my recollection.
Cross-examined by MR. BESLEY. Q. I suppose there are other credits which you have in that book, besides those of the Commercial Bank? A. Not during the period of these items that I have given evidence of from 21st September to 23d October, 1860—I cannot say without reference that there are entries not in reference to cheques on the part of the Commercial Bank.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was Holcroft's account in existence a great while? A. No; and not to any considerable extent—our bankers were the London and County at this time.
JOHN LOUCHIN . I am one of the clerks of the Deposit Bank, Cannon-street West—this (produced) is the revenue waste-book—I find an entry on 25th September, in my writing, of a credit to Durden of 70l.—I cannot my that that credit comes from the London and County Bank—it is a cheque on the Commercial Bank—I cannot tell who the drawer is.
HENRY THOMAS CLAYPOLE . I am one of the clerks in the London and County Bank—in September and October, last year, I collected the cheques for the Deposit Bank, which are paid into our bank—I went the west walk—I do not know the drawers of any of the cheques which I produce—I have got a cheque before me of 21st September, 1860, drawn by Holcroft on the Commercial Bank, but I cannot vouch for this being the cheque which I collected; I collected one for 30l. and only one—on 26th September I collected a cheque for 70l. on the Commercial Bank.
COURT. Q. Do all the cheques you present at the Commercial Bank bear your stamp? A. Yes; these are stamped with our stamp—I cannot say whether they were all paid.
FREDERICK EDWARD CROWTHER . (The evidence of this witness given on the former trial was read over, to which he assented, and added)—These (produced) are the notes; one is No. 57,836, and the other 29,226—I paid the produce to Holcroft's creditors.
MR. POLAND. Q. Was a Mr. Pell one of the creditors of Holoroft, and did you pay him or to the Northamptonshire Bank some money on account of Holoroft's creditors? A. Yes, at Northampton—I think, 160l. or 165l.; there was 160l. in notes at all events, and they were the notes I received from Ramsay—Mr. Wetherall was a creditor of Holcroft's I paid him 75l.—Mr. Hollestone is the manager—I paid him the notes—I also paid Mr. Hayward some bank notes.
CHARLES PELL . I am a clerk at the Northamptonshire Bank—Mr. Gardner paid a number of notes to his account—there was a 50l. note, 59,955, June 20th, 1860. (Mr. POLAND stated that this was one of the 50l. notes paid when the 300l. cheque was cashed on 24th October, as proved by Pike) Mr. Stroulger keeps an account at our house—he paid in on the 23d a 20l. note, 09,804, September 21st, 1860.
JAMES GLEGG . (The evidence of this witness, given on the former trial, was read over, to which he assented, and added)—The first item of cash paid and exclusive of transfers from Durdin's account, and bills discounted, was on 20th May, 1852, the account being opened on 2d December, 1851, with 150l. from Currie's—after that time, on 27th December, the next cash was Durdin's cheque for 150l.; the next a short bill of Durdin's on 12th April—on 15th April here is a transfer from Holcroft put down as cash for that short bill which had been in the first instance returned on 5th May; cash from Currie's to Durdin's account 55l—that is the first money paid to the account—allthese items on the right hand margin are the sums; mo. means money—without going through all the accounts, I find that from time to time Durdin's account is credited for cheques, from Holcroft, and Holcroft for cheques by Durdin—here are no fictitious entries; not what are called so—I show that entries are fictitious by their passing through his cash-book, instead of their paying them as they would if they had been money—there are many fictitious entries about this period—I have a list of them for each year from 1851—in 1851 the false credits were 1,316l., and he has abstracted sums to the extent of 4,730l., as for cheques drawn by Joel, Richards, and others—in the year 1852, 3,500l. altogether was the amount of frauds; in 1853, 5,000l.; in 1854, 5,100l.; in 1855, 5,600l. in 1856, 2,350; in 1857, 8,450l.; in 1858, 12,243l. 13s. 5d.; in 1859, 10,109l. 14s. 3d.; in 1860, 9,951l. 13s. 4d.; in 1861, 1,047l. 6s. 8d.—from the closing of Durdin's account these amounts were carried through Holcroft's account—all this was done by means of Holcroft's account from the closing of Durdin's account in 1853—I have also traced from time to time cheques by Holcroft placed at the Deposit Bank to Durdin's account—we have only the pass-books for a short time, so that I cannot say to what extent; but in a number of instances, some hundreds in the year 1860, and there are some cases of Holcroft's account credited by cheques drawn by Durdin on his own account at the Deposit Bank—during 1860 there are 185 items of return cheques of Holcroft's for bills entered in this book, amounting to 11,030l. 3s.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You have told us that the total amount of credits was 200,000l., but there were genuine credits, I think,
during the same period, amounting to upwards of 150,000l.? A. To the extent of 153,000l.—the entries in the ledger are. founded upon the cash-book; how many of those were mere exchanges, and how many were bona fide money, I cannot say.
COURT. Q. But if there was nothing worse than that, the bank would have lost nothing? A. Nothing—I mean that these amounts purport to pass through the cash-book.
MR. SLEIGH to MR. DYSON. Q. Must not an entry in the cash-book, made by any of the clerks, represent the cash as coming in over the counter, and received by the person who makes the entry? A. It ought to be so—the entries in the cash-book are made by the cashier who receives the cash—I am one of those, Mr. Little is the other, and in our absence some other clerk, occasionally Durdin himself in former years, but not of late years—we always ascertain at night that our cash is correct as regards the cash-book—it is the custom in all banking-houses to balance to a penny before the clerks leave—it was the custom at the Commercial Bank.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. But that balancing, I apprehend, does not consist of counting the money actually in the drawer? A. No; the balancing of the money is quite a separate thing altogether—the balancing the money is the balancing of the cashier's money which is carried into the balance quite in a separate manner—the notes and gold we balance every night to a penny—we do that by comparing what we have paid out with what we have received—that is the result we arrive at by comparison of certain figures in certain books.
COURT. Q. Suppose you began business in the morning with 10,000l. in notes, gold, and silver in your till, and suppose in the course of the day the payments in exceeded the payments out by 1,000l., ought you not at the close of the day to have 11,000l? A. Certainly, and we should look to see if we had got that 11,000l.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. But where would you look? A. We should cast the books.
COURT. Q. Would you not count your notes and gold? A. Most certainly we should; but if any of the books are wrongly cast to correspond with any fraudulent entries, then of course the balance agrees to a penny, just the same; so that if the 66,000l. vas not in the calendar, we should not expect to find it in the till—if a cheque was paid in to Holcroft's account it would appear in the cash-book; whether it was an exchanged cheque or not we could not tell.
GEORGE FREDERICK GRAY . I am a leather-seller of 23, Redcross-street, Barbican, late of the firm of Gray and Napper—I have known Holcroft from fifteen to twenty years—I have from time to time given him exchanged cheques—these (produced) are cheques for the year 1860, which I gave him in return for cheques of his to the same amount; altogether to the amount of between 700l. and 800l.—they are all here except the first, which we lost—the counterfoils are here—the first date is 4th January, and the last 20th December, they amount to 768l. odd.
COURT. Q. Were both your cheques dated the same day. A. No; he would give me a cheque not dated the same day, or if it was, there was an understanding that it was to be renewed—it was a temporary loan of from three days to a week—sometimes he gave me a cheque upon his banker, and sometimes they were not his; sometimes they were upon the Deposit Bank—they were not sometimes Durdin's cheques—I never knew the name of Durdin—the cheques produced represent nothing more than a loan for a day or two or a week.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. That is to say, being short, of money, you, having confidence in him, have advanced him money upon post dated cheques of his? A. Yes; and have always been honourably paid—as far as I know, he has always borne the character of an honourable and well-conducted man.
MR. BESLEY (for Durdin) submitted, upon similar grounds to those in the former case, that the evidence failed to establish the offence charged: the evidence went to show that no larceny had been committed, but that the money had been obtained by false pretences. MR. GIFFARD contended that with regard to the sum, of 30l., a portion of the 60l. 8s. 6d., that stood upon a different footing, inasmuch as it was proved that Durdin with his own hand handed over notes to that amount. MR. BESLEY, in reply, stated that it was proved that the 30l. was taken from the drawer by another clerk, and that Durdin was not acting as cashier on that occasion; that it was the practice to balance the cash at the end of every day, and that if 30l. had been abstracted, and no cheque or other document representing that value introduced in its place, the fraud would have been discovered. MR. BARON BRAMWELL. I think it comes within the same category as the other cases, and I will reserve it if necessary.
The Jury having been locked up from ten minutes past 7 to a quarter-past 10 without being able to agree, THE COURT, with the consent of the Counsel on both sides and of the prisoners, discharged the Jury without giving any verdict.
MR. GIFFARD offered no evidence.— NOT GUILTY .
MR. GIFFARD offered no evidence.— NOT GUILTY .
MR. GIFFARD offered no evidence.— NOT GUILTY .
MR. GIFFARD offered no evidence.— NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, July 9th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FINNIS; Mr. Ald. CARTER; and MR. RECORDER.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Seven Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .**— Confined Twelve Monflis.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
566. SARAH SHARP (32) , Unlawfully obtaining, by false pretences, from Frederick Parkinson the sum of 3l. 15s. 6d. with intent to defraud; Second Count, by like false pretences attempting to obtain from Ann, the wife of the said Frederick Parkinson, the sum of 4l. 7s. 6d.; to which she
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT SPINKS (Policeman, F 84). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, 24th October, 1859. William Nugent, convicted of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Nine Months.")—I was present—the prisoner is the man.
JOHN SHARPE . I am the landlord of the Yorkshire Grey public-house, in Hart-street, Bloomsbury—on Thursday morning, 20th June, the prisoner came there, called for a pot of porter, which was 4d., and tendered a bed florin—I did not at that moment discover it to be bad—I gave him change and put the florin in the till—I had no other florin there—about five minutes afterwards he asked for a half-pint of gin, which came to 10d., and tendered a bad florin—that induced me to examine the coins, and I found both of them to be bad—no one had been to the till in the interval but myself—I told him he had given me two bad florins, and asked him for good money—he said he would call a policeman, and he ran out of the house—I pursued him, caught him, and gave him into custody with the two bad florins.
GEORGE MASTERS (Policeman, E 104). I took the prisoner on 20th June, at Museum-street—the last witness gave him in charge, and gave me these two florins (produced)—I searched the prisoner, and found on him one half-crown, three shillings, four sixpences, and 5d. in copper, all good—he was very violent in resisting.
Prisoners Defence. I did not know the money was bad; I took it in change for a sovereign. I do not get my living by passing bad money.
The prisoner called
WILLIAM ACWORTH (Policeman, F 48). I have known the prisoner for about the last four or five years as a constant associate of utterers of base coin in the neighbourhood of Seven Dials—he is hardly ever at work; I believe he gets his living entirely in passing bad money.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL HORSEY (Police-serjeant, C 6). I produce a certificate (Read; "Central Criminal Court. Margaret Galloway, convicted, 2d April, 1860, of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Twelve Months.")—I was present—the prisoner is the person tried and convicted under the name of Margaret Galloway.
EMILY BURIDGE . I was at the Rising Sun at Twickenham on 19th June, serving at the bar—the prisoner and John Green (See next case) came in, and Green asked for two glasses of half and half, one each—he tendered a half-crown, which I tried, gave it back to him, and told him it was bad—he these gave me a good shilling—they went away together—it was about 3 o'clock.
the side of the road, near the White Horse beer-shop—I followed them, and saw the prisoner leave Cross and join Green in the same road—Cross went on about 100 yards ahead—I took Green and the prisoner into custody—they were about 400 or 500 yards from the Rising Sun when I saw them.
GEORGE KNIGHT . My mother keeps the Carpenter's Arms beer-house at Twickenham—on 19th June I saw Cross come in there—he ordered a glass of porter—I served him, and he gave me a bad half-crown—my mother gave him change—I went out to the grocer's, and they told me that it was bad—I then went after Cross, and told him it was bad—he said he did not know—he gave me a good one, and took back the bad one.
WILLIAM LOOKER . I am porter at the King's Head at Twickenham—on the afternoon of 19th June I saw the policeman with Green and the prisoner in custody—I saw some papers dropped; I would not swear from whom, but I saw some hands behind them—it was dropped from one of the two, either Green or Wilson—I picked it up and gave it to Sergeant Payne—there were nine base half-crowns, in three packages, of six, two, and one—I saw them marked.
JAMES PAYNE (Police-sergeant, V 19). I produce some half-crowns that I got from Looker, and also one that. I took from Cross—it fell from his trousers' leg while I was searching him—I found one good florin on Cross, and 5d. in coppers—on Green I found two crown pieces, one half-crown, a shilling, and 5 1/2 d. in copper, all good, a knife and key—I did not find anything else on Cross except one bad half-crown.
COURT. Q. Whom did you give it to? A. To my mother, and she gave it me back again, and then I went after the prisoner—it was marked in this way when' I had it at first—there was a little mark on the edge.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . This first half-crown is bad, and there are seven others also bad, and from the same mould—the one found on Cross is from the same mould as the seven dropped—there are two other bad ones; one of George IV., and the other of William IV.
Prisoner's Defence. I know nothing about it. I am an unfortunate girl. The half-crown was given me by the man; I did not know it was bad. The witness says that he saw us both put our hands behind us, and saw the half-crowns drop; he said before that he saw the man drop it.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES GODDARD (Policeman, V 387). The evidence of this witness given in the last case was read over to him, to which he assented, and added: When I saw Wilson and Cross sitting down, they were about one hundred yards from the White Horse beer-shop.
GEORGE KNIGHT . My master keeps the Carpenter's Arms—on 19th June I saw Cross come in—he ordered some porter—I served him, and he paid me with a bad half-crown, which I gave to my mother the moment after, and she thought it was bad—I did not lose sight of it at all—she rung it, and
gave it back to me, and I ran over to the grocer's, and then ran after the prisoner, told him it was bad, and he said he did not know—he gave me a good one, and took that bad one from me—the change my mother give him was a 2s. piece, and 5d. in half-pence.
COURT. Q. How long was he in your mothers house? A. About three minutes—I gave it to my mother at once, and she rang it while he was then—I said something to him while he was there—we gave him the change after she had rung it—it was directly afterwards that I went over to the grocer's—the prisoner was then walking up the town—I did not lose sight of the half-crown at the grocer's.
COURT. Q. Did you say at the station that Cross was the man who dropped the parcel? A. No, I did not—the sergeant did not say to me, that that was not the man that had been with the woman—I had not been drinking.
JAMES PAYNE (Police-sergeant, V 19). I brought Cross in custody to the station—I found him in the road—I had been summoned to help the other policeman—I followed him there—I went to assist him—I saw the little boy following Cross there—I took Cross into custody—I told him that I should take him in custody for uttering a counterfeit half-crown—he said, "If I did, it is a mistake; I did not do it intentionally"—he seemed very confused, and spoke stutteringly—I searched him, and while doing so, a half-crown dropped from his trousers' leg—I found on him a florin, and 5d. in coppers, good money—he said about the half-crown, "That is the one I changed at the beer-shop"—I received these three packages (produced) from Looker—he said, "One of the men dropped these"—I said, "Who was it?"—he said, "The man along of the woman when Goddard came up"—that was Green—on searching Green I found two five-shilling pieces, a half-crown, a shilling, and 5 1/2 d. in good money.
COURT. Q. Did you say that Cross was not with the woman at all? A. No; I asked him which man it was, and he said the one that was along with Goddard—he did not point out either.
COURT to JAMES GODDARD. Q. When you apprehended them, where was the man? A. Close by the side of the woman; both were standing on the kerb.
COURT to WILLIAM LOOKER. Q. Where did you pick up these packages? A. Just outside the kerb, two or three feet from the pavement—they were not all dropped in a lump, but one here, and another there—I saw Green's hands move at the time, but I would not swear that he dropped it—I said at the station that the man chucked something out, but I would not swear it was the money.
ELIZA SMITH . My master keeps the White Horse beer-shop, Richmond-road, Twickenham—I serve behind the bar—on 19th June, a little after 3 o'clock, Green came in—I served him with half-a-pint of beer, and a bottle of ginger-beer—he tendered a half-crown—I tried it—it was bad—I gave it him back—he said it looked a rum un—he gave me a good 6d.
ROBERT COLLEY . I am the landlord of the Sun Tavern, Long-acre—Cross came there, on 11th June, I believe; I cannot swear to the date; it was somewhere about that time—he called for a glass of six ale, and threw a half-crown on the counter—I saw it was bad, and threw it down before he drank the ale, jumped over the counter, bolted the door, sent for a policeman, and gave him into custody, with the bad half-crown—I marked
it before I parted with it—he was taken to Bow-street, and discharged there by the Magistrate.
Cross-examined. Q. Did I not do anything after I was set at liberty? A. You came and paid for the glass of ale, which the Magistrate said you had better do.
EDWARD MARSH (Policeman, F 163). I produce a counterfeit half-crown, which I got from the last witness—I took Cross into custody, and took him before the Magistrate at Bow-street—it was the 11th June—the prisoner said he had come from Yarmouth fishery—he was discharged.
EDWARD WHITE (Police-sergeant, D 16). I am acquainted with the prisoners—I have known Cross two or three months in London—I know the other two—I have seen them in company together—I did know where Jones lived, but I do not know where he lives now—I know where Cross lives—Wilson lives with him, cohabiting—I have seen her and Cross constantly for the last two or three months—on 10th May last his associate was tried here for uttering, and Cross at that time was working with him in passing bad money, and as soon as the man was convicted, Cross went to live with Galloway, the female prisoner—I had known him in London about six or seven weeks before 10th January.
Wilson. That man has never lived with me.
COURT. Q. Where have they been living? A. George-street, Lisson-grove—I have seen them both there, going into the same house constantly—I have been given to understand by the parties of the house that they occupied the same room—I have never seen them in the same room together.
Green's Defence. I know nothing about the parcel that was found in the road.
Wilson's Defence. I know nothing about the men.
GREEN— GUILTY .**
WILSON— GUILTY .*†
CROSS— GUILTY .
Confined Eighteen Months each.
PLEADED GUILTY .*—He received a good character.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
ANN WALKER , I am a charwoman, and was in the service of Mr. Tomlyn, a dairyman—I was in the shop on 12th June—about a quater-past 5 o'clock in the afternoon, Dudley came in and asked for three eggs, which came to threepence—I served him—he offered me a 5s. piece, and I gave him three shillings, three sixpences, and a threepenny-piece change—I gave the crown to Mrs. Tomlyn, who was sitting just in the parlour—the prisoner then went away, and police-sergeant, T 10 came in and spoke to me—inconsequence of what he said, I went into the kitchen and asked Mrs. Tomlyn for the 5s. piece—she gave me a 5s. piece back, and I gave it to the sergeant.
CAROLINE SMITH . I am a stationer at Addison-terrace, Church-street, Kensington—Dudley came into my shop on 12th June, between 4 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon—he bought half a quire of note paper, which came to 2d.—he gave me a 5s. piece, and I gave him a half-crown, two shillings, and four pennyworth of halfpence—he then left the shop—I did not examine
the money he had given me till after he left—I then had suspicions about it—I did not exactly know whether it was bad, but I sent it to a neighbour—a little girl named Price took it—my little maid—she brought it back and I found that it was bad, and gave it to the policeman.
EMILY PRICE . Miss Smith gave me on 12th June a crown-piece—I took it to Mr. Clinch, a neighbour—he tried it, and found it bad—I brought back the same crown-piece to Miss Smith—I did not lose sight of it at all.
GEORGE URBEN (Police-sergeant, T 10). I was on duty in Church-street, Kensington, on 12th June, and saw the prisoners there in company with a third person—when I first saw them there were two on one side of the street, and one on the other; all separate—I saw Ward waving his hand; a sort of signal, I thought, to the third man—Ward crossed to the third man, and they went on together—after going some distance, Dudley joined them—they crossed over to the same side as Dudley was walking—they all three went away out of my sight together—they were out of my sight about four or five minutes, when I saw the third man in the Bays water-road—he was joined there by Dudley—they had been together about two or three minutes before I saw Ward again—they then all three went on together—I next saw Dudley separate from them, and cross over on the opposite side of the road, and walk on some distance till they came to Mr. Tomlyn's shop—I saw Dudley come on in front, and go into Tomlyn's shop—when he came out, he came back the way that he had gone, on the same side of the road, till he came to the first turning, and went down it—Ward and the other man returned back as soon as he came out of the shop, and followed him round the corner as fast as they could walk—after they had passed, I went into Mr. Tomlyn's shop and asked a question—the 5s. piece was shown to me, but I did not take it away then—I went to follow the prisoners till I saw another constable—they were together when I and the constable came up to them—I got in front of Ward, and he stopped on the pavement—I said, "Here they are"—I caught hold of Dudley, and the other man ran away as quick as he could—my fellow-constable took Ward—Dudley on the way to the station dropped this crown-piece (produced); I picked it up—I only found a penny in good money on him—I produce a counterfeit coin that I got from Ann Walker, and another from Ann Smith—I followed them for nearly three quarters of an hour—I went nearly three miles after them.
Gross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. You did not search Ward, I think? A. No—it was about three-quarters of an hour from the time I first saw them till the time I took them—I saw Ward wave his hand to the third man, and afterwards I could see it was a signal for the third man—Dudley was then coming on behind him, on the opposite side, in the road—the signal was to the other man—I afterwards saw Dudley separate from Ward and the other man before he went into Mr. Tomlyn's—I was in plain clothes—they might have seen me—I was about thirty or forty yards from them—I did not see them overtake Dudley; they were out of my sight by that time—when I saw them again they were all together—I apprehended them at once as soon as I had got assistance—they were walking very fast—I went round a street so as to meet them—Ward did not attempt to run away—he could not; I was right in front of them.
COURT. Q. You did not see Dudley go into Smith's shop? A. No.
JOHN FREWEN (Policeman, D 167). I came to assist the last witness on. this occasion, and from what he said to me I took Ward—he said he was looking for a job—I told him he must go with me to the station—he did not say what he was doing—he said he was inquiring his way; that he was
a navigator—I asked him where to—he said, "Well, I don't know"—I found on him two half-crowns, eleven shillings, seven sixpences, two three-penny-pieces, and 5d. in copper, and also this half-quire of note-paper (produced).
Cross-examined. Q. All good money, was it not? A. Yes—when I asked him what place he was trying to find the way to, he said afterwards, "I do not know; find out"—I was about a quarter of an hour following them in company with the other constables—I kept my eye on them all the time—they were talking to a man—there were four together—the third man in company with those ran away as fast as he could—we did not apprehend the fourth man.
MR. COOKE. Q. Was he an innocent man they were talking to? A. Yes.
CAROLINE SMITH (re-examined). This is the paper I sold to Dudley—I cannot exactly say the time at which I sold it; it was between 3 and 4 o'clock—to my belief this is the same paper—it exactly resembles the paper I sold him.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Is there anything peculiar about the paper? A. No; it is the same sort of paper that is sold in every stationer's shop in London—it is exactly the same quality—it was only half a quire that I sold—this is the other half of the quire; I brought it with me to-day.
He received a good character.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN EATWELL . My husband is an artist's colourman, and keeps a shop at 49, Dorset-street, Marylebone—on 8th June, the female prisoner came about a quarter to 5 o'clock, and asked for sixpenny worth of moulding wax—I told her I had it, but my husband was out, and I did not know where it was—she said she would call on Monday for it—she asked for threepennyworth of burnt umber, dry—we had none dry—I told her we had it in oil colours and in tubes—she said, "You have threepenny sticks of Indian ink?"—I said, "Yes"—she said, "I will take one"—I gave her one—she tendered a half-crown—I thought it looked very bad when she put it down; I tried it, and it bent—I told her it was bad, and she said, "I suppose I have taken it in change at Epsom"—I asked her if she was the person that gave Mr. Eatwell a bad two shilling piece three weeks before—she said she had not been in the shop for five months—I said, "Very well, a person has been passing bad money, and I shall send for a policeman"—I knocked, and in the course of a few minutes one of our men came to the door, and I sent him for a policeman—the prisoner said, would not my neighbours fetch me a policeman; should she fetch one herself—I told her to be so good as to keep her seat—she said yes, she would walk into my parlour—by that time the policeman came—I told him I had served her with a threepenny stick, and that she had given a bad half-crown, and if he thought she was guilty I would give her in charge—he said he could not tell without trying—he asked her where she lived—she said in Berwick-street, Soho—I told her it was a long way for her to come for a threepenny stick of Indian ink—she said she had friends living by—I gave her in charge, and gave the policeman the half-crown and the two shilling piece that was given to my husband on 10th May—I was not present on 10th May—it was the two shilling piece that was marked by Sergeant White on 10th May.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. When you charged her with passing the bad money did she attempt to go away? A. No; she sat quietly—she only offered to fetch a policeman herself—there was only myself and her is the shop—if she had tried to get away I should soon have been after her.
JAMES DRENNEN (Policeman, D 100). I took Hamilton in custody—I was called to the shop on the evening in question—the last witness gave me this counterfeit half-crown and florin (produced)—the prisoner was searched at the station by the female searcher—I saw the money produced that was found on her—it was given to me by the female searcher, in the presence of Hamilton—the searcher said, "I found this good money, but no bad"—it was two sovereigns, and 6s. 6d. in silver.
EDWARD WHITE (Police-sergeant, D 16). Early in the month of May I saw the two prisoners in High-street, Marylebone, standing together in conversation—I saw Palmer take a packet from his pocket, break it open, and give the female prisoner a coin—after that he left her, and went to Mr. Ensoll's shop, a draper, in High-street, and was looking in at the window—the woman followed, and went into the shop—I watched until she came out—she was there about eight or nine minutes—when she came out she returned the same way that she had come; down High-street, towards South-street—the man stopped at the window for about a minute and a half after she came out, and then followed her and joined her at the corner of South-street and High-street—I kept them in sight till they got to Winchester-street—they stopped in the middle of the street in conversation, and I passed them, and saw the man give the woman another coin in her hand—they parted, and when at the corner of Dorset-street and East-street the male prisoner made a nod with his head, and the female prisoner went into Mr. Eat well's shop—she was there about five minutes—upon her coming out I went in and saw this counterfeit florin, which I marked—when I came out of there I looked for the two prisoners, but could not find them—I believe that was about 10th May—on 8th June I saw them together in High-street, Marylebone, about half-past 4 o'clock—I was not able to follow them then—about a quarter to 6 o'clock, that same afternoon, I was going to the station-house, and saw the male prisoner smoking a pipe about fifty yards from the station—I had heard of a woman being in custody, and a description was given—on nearing the station I saw the male prisoner walking up and down smoking a pipe in Wigmore-street, about fifty yards from the station door—I went across to him, took hold of both his hands, which were in his pockets, told him I was a police-sergeant, and was going to take him in custody—he asked me what for—I said for being concerned with a woman who was at the station, whom he knew, with uttering counterfeit coin—he said, "I will not go, I am a respectable man, and I will make you pay for it"—he resisted greatly—after some trouble I got him into the station-house—upon searching him, I found thirteen sovereigns, one crown piece, nine half-crowns, one florin, one shilling, one sixpence, threepence farthing in copper, good money, and a 5l. note—that was found in sundry pockets—ten sovereigns in one pocket, three sovereigns in a pocket-book, and the silver and coppers in another pocket—I searched his coat pockets, where I found a railway guide, two handkerchiefs, a boy's leather belt, a piece of calico, a piece of black net, a cotton stay lace, a stay hook, two skeins of cotton, a small new piece of Turkey sponge, six steel pens, a knife, tobacco and pouch, three pencils, a mackerel, some fennel, two mutton chops in separate papers, a rasher of him, three papers of gooseberries, and a quantity of memorandums—all his pockets were full of the things—I asked
him to unbutton his trousers—he said that was rather too delicate a thing, something might bite me—this was in the station-house—I unbuttoned his trousers, and on my touching his left-hand side, he said, "Don't fickle like that"—I then felt about, and said, "It will be all right when I get this out," and then I pulled out from under the flannel, between his trousers and drawers, this bag (produced) in which I found three crowns, seven half-crowns, six florins, and eight shillings, all counterfeit, all in separate packages, and paper between—there were seven packages, and also a half-crown—when I took possession of them he said he felt very faint, asked me to let him sit down, and said he did not know the female whom I was going to charge him with—I asked him where he lived—he said he was a commercial traveller, and was—only now and then in London; but he lived at Notley-street, Manchester—he did not mention how long he had been at Manchester; only backwards and forwards—the woman in the charge-room said to me, "So help me God, you are wrong about us being connected"—she gave no address—I think there was something said about Berwick-street, but not to me.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. When you first saw the woman and the male prisoner together, how far were you from them, on 10th May? A. I was close to them—I had never seen either of them before—I cannot say whether she was dressed as she is now, but I should know the woman out of a thousand; I was following her so long—I believe she had a lightish dress on, and it was a double flounce, I know—I was close to her—I think I touched the man as I passed him in High-street—I wanted to know what was done at Eatwell's before I took them into custody—I could not take them in custody till I knew whether there was a case.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Were you very anxious to take them? A. Well, it is my duty—I left them for another time—I do not know a woman named Ann Wilson—I know about a dozen named Margaret Leary—I never took any one of that name into custody—I did accuse one Margaret Leary of being a returned convict; that was at a house where I was called in about a robbery—I did tell her she had been in custody—she was not the person I took her for, but she had been in custody—I am sure of that—she employed a solicitor, and she said if I gave her the solicitor's money back she would not go any further with it—I gave her 1l. 1s.—I told her I did not care whether she did or not, because I could answer it—I made a mistake; but she had been in custody.
CATHERINE WOODALL . I assist Mr. Ensoll, the draper, in High-street, Marylebone—on Saturday, 8th June, Hamilton came into the Shop and bought a boy's belt—to the best of my recollection it was a belt—a half-crown was tendered in payment—I saw it was bad, told her so, and gave it to her back, and she gave me some good money; a sixpence, I believe it was—this has been one of our belts—it has Mr. Ensoll's mark on it—I was sent for to the police-office on the Thursday following, after this woman was taken up—4 3/4 d. was the value of the belt.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLINS. Q. You sell a good many of these belts, I believe? A. Yes—I will not swear that I sold this belt to the prisoner—I am not certain that she had a belt; but this belt has been ours—it was some trifling article like this that she bought.
MR. COOKE. Q. Do you know the woman? A. Yes; and that she was at our shop on that Saturday, and bought something, and I gave a farthing in the change.
half-crown, are bad—of those found on the man, there are six florins, four out of one mould and two out of another, but neither of those bear upon the first florin—amongst the half-crowns there is one of George the IV.'s, 1825, from the same mould as the half-crown uttered by the female—there are three crowns, all from one mould, and half-crowns from one mould, and shillings also—one of the half-crowns, found on him, is from the same mould as that passed by the female.
GUILTY .—PALMER received a good character.
Confined Nine Months each.
PLEADED GUILTY to embezzling the 2l.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .**†— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .—The prosecutor stated that the prisoner had defrauded Messrs. Robarts of 8,793l. in bills, and 5,200l. in forged loans. Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
OLD COURT—Wednesday, July 10th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. Ald. CARTER; Mr. Ald. ROSE; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Wightman.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZA DAWES . I am the wife of John Dawes, a porter, of 15, Northampton-street—we keep the house—I recollect Mrs. Palethorpe coming there on 1st March—at first she paid 2s. a week rent, and we reduced it to 1s. 9d.—on Tuesday, 25th June, I saw the prisoner in the morning—I saw her every day almost—she was engaged in slop making for a Mr. Lawrence—she had three children—they were always clean and well-fed, and always went to school regularly—on the Tuesday morning I saw her, as near as I can judge, about 9 o'clock, or a little alter—I let her in and spoke to her—she had gone out before that, but I did not see her then—when she returned I said, "Good morning; it is a wet morning"—she answered, and went up stairs, she afterwards went out again, but I did not see her after I let her in—that was a little after 9—somewhere about 5 o'clock, Mrs. Faulkner, a lodger in the front room, came to me—(the prisoner occupied the back room on the same floor as Mrs. Faulkner)—I had some conversation with her and went up stairs—the door was locked inside—I looked through the key-hole and saw the prisoner's gown, that she had on in the morning, hanging over the bedstead, and I could see the handle of the key—I heard Mrs. Faulkner call to the little boy and say, "Is not your mother well?" and the biggest boy came and opened the door—I think he is six years old—I was not able to see whether he came from the bed or not—Mrs. Faulkner went in first
and I went in afterwards—Mrs. Palethorpe was lying on the bed, and the biggest boy was sitting on the bed—that was the boy who had opened the door—he had got on to the bed again—he was in his night-gown—they were all in their night-gowns, and the little girl was sitting at the foot of the bed when I saw her—she is two years old—the other child Mr. Sutherin had taken up—Mrs. Faulkner went in before I did, and saw them—I did not go in till Mr. Sutherin came—I do not know the prisoner's handwriting.
COURT. Q. How old was the little boy whose death we are inquiring into? A. Four years old; I believe.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. Did you know that the prisoner's husband had deserted her and gone to America? A. No; I did not, when she took the room, I asked her what her husband was, and she said he was in the country—that was all the answer she made me, but afterwards she told me he was gone to America—she seemed to be a good and affectionate mother—she sent the children to a Sunday-school—I am sure she did her best with regard to working for them at slop-work—she was kind and affectionate to her children—she paid me her rent regularly—the last she paid me was on the Friday before she committed the deed—when she told me she could not afford to pay 2s. rent, considering she had three children to keep, I lowered it to 1s. 9d.—she was not confined with a child in my house.
ELIZABETH FAULKNER . I live at 15, Northampton-street, King's-cross, in the same house where Mrs. Palethorpe lived—I raw the deceased child last, on the Monday before 25th June—it seemed to be in good health then, running about as usual—I did not see Mrs. Palethorpe on the early part of Tuesday—in consequence of her not making her appearance I suspected something, made a communication to the landlady, and eventually went up stairs to the door of her room—I made some communication to the child inside, in consequence of which the door was opened—I called out to have the door opened, and the child came and opened it—I went to the bed-side and spoke twice, but got no answer—Mrs. Palethorpe was lying with her face in the pillow—I could not see her face—the youngest child was lying next to her, and the little boy, that is now dead, was lying next to the youngest child; his face was deadly pale, with a little piece of red, about the size of a half-penny, on each cheek, and was catching his breath very indifferent—I don't know where the other boy was—he opened the door for me—my husband was in the front room having his tea, and he came in directly—I spoke to the prisoner twice, and asked her if she was not well, but I received no answer—she seemed to me as though she was asleep—a policeman was sent for, and Mr. Sutherin the doctor—the prisoner was recovered to her senses about half-an hour after I saw her, I think—I did not hear her say anything then, I never went into the room again—on the Monday evening before, she came in and spoke to me; I asked her what was the matter with her, as I saw that her eyes looked very red and very swollen from crying—she appeared to me as if she had been crying—she said her troubles were more than she could bear, and she thought she must take the life of herself and her children some time or other—she had frequently said something of that sort before, not in the same words—she was saying she was quite tired of her life, and she thought, take the life of herself and her children, she must—I do not know her handwriting.
Cross-examined. Q. Do I understand you she said that only once, or had she said that sort of thing before? A. She had said it before, months before; but she has gone on working for her children and attending to them
since—she was a kind and affectionate mother to them—she has twice sold me some little things to supply her children with bread—various things, not pillow-cases; they were pieces—this little boy that died had been poorly a few weeks before; for about four days—there had been a doctor called in by the mother to see him—I had heard her talk about being tired of life, and about her children, before that—she stated that her husband was in New York.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you know what was the matter with the child? A. No; I never heard—I saw it on the Monday running about—it then seemed to be quite well—I saw it once in the afternoon playing with the children in the backyard—it did not go to school on the Monday—it had no appearance of illness; it did not seem to me to be suffering.
ABRAHAM KEEBLE (Policeman, S 121). I was called to this house in Northampton-street, on Tuesday 25th, about half-past 6—I went into the prisoner's room—Mrs. Faulkner was against the door-way—I saw the prisoner lying on the bed, and the children in the bed—Mr. Sutherin came just after I arrived—I shook the prisoner by his direction, but I could not make her speak; some remedies were administered to the deceased child, but he did not revive—I heard Mr. Sutherin put to the prisoner, "What you given the children?" he put the question a second time, and she said, "Laudanum"—I then searched the room—I saw Mr. Sutherin pick up this bottle off the mantel-piece; the other one I found in the cupboard—the one Mr. Sutherin picked up was marked "laudanum"—the label on the other bottle was torn off—after I had conveyed them to the workhouse, I searched the room again, and between the sheet and the bed I found this letter—I do not know the prisoner's handwriting—I never saw her before that evening, to the best of my knowledge.
Cross-examined. Q. Was the bottle found on the table, standing upright? A. It was on the mantel-piece, with a cork in it, as it is now—there was nothing more in it at that time than there is now—it was picked up by Mr. Sutherin, and handed over to me—the bottle I found in the cupboard was no in the same state as it is now, standing upright, on the right-hand side among some more bottles—there were some medicine bottles, some with Mr. Sutherin's name on them—some little phials, looking as if they had been medicine bottles—I believe there were three—there was some medicine is one of them—the prisoner herself was insensible when I went in—she was lying on her left side—the eldest boy was sitting up in the bed, the little girl laid next to the mother, and the deceased was lying between the two.
HENRY SUTHERIN . I am a member of the Royal College of Surgeon, and reside at Aldenham-terrace, St. Pancras-road—I had seen the prisoner about a fortnight prior to this transaction—I went to her house because her child was ill—I believe that was the child who is the subject of the present inquiry—I prescribed for it then—the prisoner was under the impression that it had the measles, but there was no rash whatever—I saw the child twice on the following day, but there was nothing much the matter with it—I was sent for to see the child on Tuesday evening, 25th June, a little after half-past 6—I found it lying on the bed insensible—there were three others on the bed, the prisoner and two other children—the two other children were sitting up—the younger child was quite drowsy, and nodding its head apparently in a sleepy state, and more or less suffering from some
narcotic poison; at least, I was under that impression—the three children presented appearances which led me to believe they had had something administered to them—the prisoner was insensible at that time—I had the deceased child taken out of bed and placed on the lap of Mrs. Dawes, or Mrs. Faulkner, I cannot say which—I endeavoured to restore it by stimulants, and by slapping it, and the application of cold water, and other means, the usual remedies—the pupils were contracted to a point at the time, and its breathing scarcely perceptible, and the pulse could scarcely be detected at the wrist—I infer from those symptoms that the child was labouring under some narcotic poison—it died on the same evening, about half an hour afterwards—I subsequently made a post mortem examination, and from its appearance then I was confirmed in my opinion—the stomach was secured and sent to Dr. Letheby—in the mean time it was in the custody of another medical man who assisted me at the post mortem, and also at 15, Northampton-street.
Cross-examined. Q. I understand you to say you had attended this child before? A. Yes; about a fortnight before the 25th June, the mother came to me for medicine for the child, and seemed exceedingly anxious about it—she seemed to be a very solicitous and affectionate mother—I cannot answer whether the poor people in that neighbourhood are in the habit of using laudanum when their children are affected—I don't know that from my own experience—I have seen children under the influence of laudanum—I know what Dalby's carminative and Godfrey's cordial is—that is used by mothers occasionally to soothe their children and prevent their crying—I do not think it is so much used as it was formerly—they know better—in in my own experience, I have found laudanum operate differently on different children of the same age—some children may take with impunity a very large dose, and another child would be killed with a quarter of it; but it is a dangerous thing—it would depend a great deal upon whether the stomach was empty or full, that would make a great deal of difference—I have known instances of persons using a preparation of laudanum to soothe their children, I mean Godfrey's Cordial—I keep a druggist's shop—I sell laudanum, but not to children for that purpose—grown-up people frequently come and purchase it—it is a popular medicine for coughs, mixed with vinegar—a good deal of laudanum is sold ordinarily to people—the little girl, two years of age, recovered; she vomited—the eldest boy was sitting on the bed when I went in—he was not long in coming to; he had vomited.
MR. RIBTON. Q. How much laudanum would be sufficient to kill a child four years of age? A. It varies—one-third of a grain of opium has been known to kill a child four and a half years of age in good health—but it depends upon its combinations, whether the child has had a meal or not, and many other circumstances.
DR. HENRY LETHEBY . On the 28th June, I received a parcel from Mr. Sutherin, in which was the stomach of a child—I also received the smaller intestines—I examined the contents and found that the stomach and intestines were both quite healthy, and in a sound condition as regards their structure; but on analysis they both yielded the constituents of opium, which are found in laudanum—I could not say anything about the quantity—there were no traces of any other poison—I am not able to say anything about the cause of death, without reference to the symptoms and the post mortem appearances; having heard those, I then can.
COURT. Q. I suppose if a child took a sufficient quantity to kill it, it would probably die of that complaint? A. Yes; that is so.
Gross-examined. Q. You found no solid food in the stomach? A. I did not—laudanum varies in its effect on persons according to their constitutions and a variety of circumstances—some persons may take it with perfect impunity, and others would sink under it; it depends on various circumstances—with regard to organic poisons, that which is found in the stomach is over and above the quantity that has killed, if death has arisen from it—therefore, that has no reference to the quantity taken, or that has caused death, because that which has causeddeath is absorbed into the system, and has got out of the stomach into the general circulation, and has passed beyond our reach—morphia is given by medical men in some cases to counteract disease—it requires extreme caution in administering to children anything that has morphia in it, or opiate of any kind—ten or fifteen drops of laudanum would perhaps be sufficient to kill a child of that age, with an empty stomach, prostrated or weakened by want of food—ten drops I should look upon as a fatal quantity.
COURT. Q. How long would it take to absorb that into the system? A. Half or three quarters of an hour, upon an empty stomach—if a person took a dose quite insufficient to kill, and died a violent death from some other cause in the course of twenty minutes or half an hour, I could not say positively whether or not you would find traces of it in the stomach or intestines; you might or might not—what I said, was that when you find poison in the stomach, that which you find there has perhaps had nothing to do with the death; but that which has killed has gone out of the stomach into the circulation, and is beyond our reach—that is always the case.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Assuming that the death was caused by laudanum, are in you, from the quantity you found in the stomach, able to form an opinion as to the quantity that was administered? A. No; the action of a poison is upon the brain, and it must reach the brain before it produces its effect, and when it gets into the brain we can no longer find it; that, therefore, which is in the stomach is not that which has killed.
COURT. Q. Whether it kills or not, I suppose at some time or other it gets to the brain? A. When it is absorbed—absorption may take place in half an hour; that would be the case if a dose were taken insufficient to kill, and a person died from some other cause—it may or may not be all absorbed—that which was aborbed certainly would not be in the stomach; if there was any not absorbed, that would be found in the stomach.
SAMUEL STOKES (Police-inspector). I saw the prisoner after this transaction, about 10 o'clock the same evening—I also saw her on the Wednesday—I had some conversation with her on both occasions—on Tuesday night I asked her where her husband was—she said, "He left me twelve months the 27th July, and I believe he is at New York"—on the following day I saw her again, and asked her if she had any friend she would like to send to—she said "No; if anything had happened to me I should have liked Mrs. Kent to have had the things, as I said in the letter"—she did not see the letter—that was all that passed.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. SLEIGH and TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.
in my service—I left home on that day about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and returned about 10 o'clock in the evening—I know the prisoner; he was in my employ about ten months ago for a year and a half, and again last Christmas—he left my service about ten months ago—after leaving my employment he returned at Christmas time for three weeks—Mary Ann Redkisson was in my employ when the prisoner was there at Christmas time—she came about a month before Christmas—I know a man named Liney—he was in my employ and left in October last; he had been in my employ about sixteen or eighteen months—he and the prisoner were in my employ at the same time—they lived and slept together—I know a man named George Quilteri; I have often seen him at my shop—he came to buy meat, and to deal—he had a butcher's shop of his own—he bought whole carcasses, sheep, he bought wholesale of me—Quilter used to come to my shop while liney and Strugnell were in my employ—I used to keep my money in my bedroom, in an iron box, about two feet six inches long, and about a foot high, and about the same in width—it had two handles, one at each end; it had been painted—I believe it had been in a fire and was scorched a kind of a dark brown—I had that box about a fortnight or three weeks before Christmas, and, if I recollect right, Strugnell assisted in taking it up stairs into my room—I had it while he was with me—it was then my habit to keep my money as I did on 21st April—the kitchen is behind the shop, away from the parlour, on the same floor—the parlour is behind the shop, and behind that the kitchen; it is level, there are no steps—my bed-room is over the shop in front, on the first-floor—when I returned at 10 o'clock on 21st April, I found a large number of persons assembled round my house—when I got indoors I observed a pool of blood in the shop—Mary Ann Redkisson had gone to the hospital, her sister and mother were in the shop—I asked who it was had been injured, and they told me—I did not go upstairs then—I immediately went to the hospital to see the girl; when 1 returned I searched the house, and found that my box, some rings, and jewellery of other descriptions and papers were missing—I found that all my drawers had been broken open, and my desk, and I missed some studs and a number of articles beside the box—there was about 105l., in the box I should suppose.
MARY ANN REDKISSON . I am about twenty years old—I was in the service of Mr. Higgins, and had been there for a year or more at the time this matter took place—I was there at the same time when Strugnell was, just before Christmas—on the afternoon of Sunday, 21st April, my master went out about three o'clock, leaving me alone—about 8 o'clock in the evening the prisoner called—I opened the door when I heard the knock—I could see no one; I looked up first one way and then the other, up the street, and I saw Strugnell coming across the road—he shook hands with me, and I said, "La, Fred, who would have thought of seeing you," and he asked me if I was alone—I said I was, but that I expected my master's mother home from chapel every minute—he said, "Can I come in?"—I said I expected her home; and then he said he would not stop long, and I said he must not stop long, and then I shut the door and put the chopper to it as I always did—that is not the chopper I put to the door (produced)—it was my habit to fasten the latch with a chopper—it was one with a wooden handle to it, not quite so large as this one—we then went into the kitchen to sit down, and he said he was thirsty—the kitchen is even with the door, out in the yard—I got up and gave him a beer jug—he said he did not want any beer, he wanted gin, so I gave him a white jug, and he went out and shut
the door after him, and went back into the kitchen again—I thought he was gone some time, and I went to see, if he was coming again, and as soon as I opened the door I saw him coming round the corner—he said, "You need not come to shut the door"—when he came in with the gin I fastened the door again with the chopper, and he and I went into the kitchen where we had been before—he began to mix the gin and water; after that he stayed in the room about five or ten minutes talking to me, I cannot say the time exactly—he then said he should go and see what time it was, because he did not want to stop long—there was a clock in the parlour behind the shop—the parlour, shop, and kitchen, are all on a level, only the kitchen lies in the yard—there is no passage, but the shop door opens into the street—I dare say the prisoner was gone two or three minutes; he was gone quite long enough to open the door—when he came back he brought with him Cassell's Pictorial Bible, which he put on the table, and I looked over the pictures with him; while doing so I heard some boys calling out in the street, which caused me to think the street door was open—I said to the prisoner, "The street door is open, some one has got in; I shall go and see"—he did not make any answer—I took the candle off the kitchen table, and as I was passing I saw the shop door half open; that was the door into the street—at the time I arrived near enough to see that the shop door was open, the prisoner was coming out of the kitchen—I did not hear him—I got out of the room first—when I saw the door open and turned round I did not see him; but I went half way upstairs, and he came behind me and said, "I have got a knife and I will do for you"—I did not look back, because I thought he meant anybody he met with upstairs—the candle was still in my hand, lighted—when he said this it sounded as if he was down at the bottom of the stairs—I did not hear any footseps—I went straight upstairs into my master's bedroom and looked and missed the iron chest, and saw the room all upset—I saw the boxes had all been opened—I did not see the prisoner then—I went downstairs again—while I was on the stairs or upstairs in the room the prisoner did not follow me, and was not with me there—when I got downstairs I saw him by the shop door—when I was half way across the shop, I said, "The place is robbed, I am going to call a policeman"—he then shut the door with one hand, and pointed a knife at me with the other—I saw it in his hand—it was one of these kind of knives (two knives were produced)—it was a knife like one of these—as soon as he had shut the door he attacked me there (pointing to her arm), and then I remember no more after that—on receiving the wound I said, "Oh, Fred, don't hurt me, it is Mary; Mary is not going to do, anything to you"—he wounded me there by the wrist (showing it)—I lost all consciousness after that—when I came to myself I found myself in the hospital—I don't remember anything about what took place afterwards—I have been in the hospital under treatment for some weeks.
SOPHIA MORRIS . I am the wife of Edmund Morris, and live at 5, James-gardens, Chapel-street—on Sunday evening, 21st April, at twenty-five minutes to 9, I was passing Mr. Higgins' shop—I observed the door wide open—I did not see any person inside—I saw Mary Ann go in at the door—I went about seven houses past and then returned and heard a very great scuffling in the shop—I did not know whether it was in play or earnest—I listened and walked up and down the shop, and I heard her say, "Fred, Fred, pray don't hurt me; pray don't hurt me!" at least twenty times—I then heard two heavy blows given with what I thought was a chopper—I heard the chopper thrown, and at that time there was a light burning, but when the chopper was thrown the light was lowered—that was a gaslight—
I was there when the shop was opened afterwards, and saw the gas burning, I gave the alarm—I saw the door broken open, and saw Mary Ann Redkisson brought out.
WILLIAM GRISDALE . On Sunday evening, the 21st April, I was employed at a public-house near Canonbury-square—on that evening, about 7 o'clock, I saw the prisoner—I know two persons named Quilter and Liney by seeing them at the public-house that night—they were in the parlour in company with the prisoner, drinking together—that was from a quarter past 7 up to a quarter to 8.
HENRY BIGGS . I am a cab-driver—on Sunday night, 21st April, the prisoner fetched my cab out of the rank about twenty minutes past 9—when be fetched me off the rank two other men put a heavy box into the cab—the prisoner got inside before I drove away—I drove all three of them somewhere—I did not handle the box; it appeared to me to be a heavy one.
JOHN DANIEL HILL . I am house-surgeon at the Royal Free Hospital, Gray's Inn-road—Mary Ann Redkisson was brought there on the night of 21st April, about 9 o'clock—she has remained in the hospital from that time to the present—she had a very extensive wound on the nose; it was a lacerated wound, cutting through all the structures of the nose—there was a wound on the right side of the temple, cutting through the bone in an oblique direction, and penetrating the skull—there was another wound on the back of the head, cutting through what we call the outer table of the skull—that only cut through the outer surface of the skull—the other two wounds cut through the bone itself—the one on the side of the temple cut through the whole structure of the bone—there was also a wound on the left wrist and another on the fore-finger of the right hand—the wound on the skull exposed the membranes of the Drain—the wounds on the nose and head I should say would be likely to be produced by a chopper; and those on the finger and wrist by a knife—her life was in danger, and continued so for some time—I am afraid the use of the fore-finger is permanently impaired.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. I suppose the wound at the back of the skull might have been caused by falling? A. No; it was an incised wound.
LUKE JAMES TOMKINS (Policeman, N 315). On the night of 21st April I took Strugnell into custody at Mr. Wilson's, Masons-alley, Basinghall street, about half-past 12 o'clock—I told him to consider himself in my custody upon a charge of robbery and outrage at Islington; I told him that the servant-girl was cut with a knife and chopper, and was taken to the hospital—he said he knew nothing about it—I cautioned him that anything he might say I should use against him—he said, "I know nothing at all about it"—I examined his clothes to see if there were any marks of blood upon them—I found none—I asked him if he had been to Mr. Higgins; he said, "No, he had not."
GUILTY on the First Count—Strongly recommended to Mercy by the Jury in consequence of his extreme youth. — DEATH recorded.
577. FREDERICK STRUGNELL (17), was again indicted, together with GEORGE QUILTER (24), and WILLIAM LINEY (21) , for stealing 2 rings, a box, and 105l. in money, of George Higgins, in his dwelling-house. second Count—Feloniously receiving the same.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and TAYLOR conducted the Prosecution.
Pentonville; it is my dwelling-house—on 21st April Mary Ann Redkisson was in my service—the prisoner Strugnell had been in my service for ten months up to the previous Christmas—while he was in my service I had an iron box which was kept in my bed-room—on 21st April, it had in it a cash-box containing about 105l., a bank-book, and other papers—I returned home on that Sunday night about 10 o'clock, and found that Mary Ann Redkisson was gone from the house—I found her wounded it the hospital—when I returned from the hospital I examined my house and found the box was gone—I know both the other prisoners—Liney had been in my service for about a year and a half—he left in October last—while he was in my service I often saw Quilter; he came to my shop purchasing meat to sell again—he and Liney were particularly acquainted.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON (for Quilter). Q. What sort of money was it that was in the box? A. One 5l. note, and all the rest was In gold and silver—I had taken it all in one day, or nearly so, and therefore did not count it previous to putting it away—the greater part was gold—I should suppose there was about 40l. in silver—I should fancy there was about 100l. altogether—I put it away on the Saturday night after taking it; I was too tired to count it—there were several papers and books in the box—then was a Fire Insurance policy, and five or six valuable papers—the books were of different kinds; books for my own private use—the bank-book was a thin book, a pass-book; and there were two or three other books—two were small-sized books—the cash-box was inside the other box—the box was about two feet long, and it stood so high (about afoot and a half)—it was an iron box, which had been painted and, I believe, burnt afterwards—it was very heavy box; I should think it weighed about a hundredweight and a half.
WILLIAM GRISDALE . I am potman at the Castle public-house, New North-road—that is about six or seven minutes' walk from Mr. Higgins' shop in Chapel-street—on Sunday evening, 21st April, I saw the three prisoners there together, with another one that I have not yet seen—it was from about a quarter past 7 to 8, or five or ten minutes to 8, something like that—they had some refreshment—I cannot exactly recollect what—I saw all their faces—I was not in the parlour when they came in—they would ring the bell for me when they wanted me—I did not seer them go away—I went into the parlour at 8 o'clock and found it empty, so I supposed by that that they hid been gone about five or ten minutes—I saw them while they were staying there—I did not hear any conversation—I did not notice whether they were talking or not.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. No—I was spoken to about this matter on the Wednesday as this was on the Sunday night—Mr. Judge spoke to me—Mr. Tomkins was with him, and Mr. Higgins—I told them the story I have told to-day, in the same terras—they told me to come up before the Magistrate, and I went up next day, but the man at the door would not let me in—I stopped till it was over, and then they said they did not want me.
EDWARD GRANGER . I live at 6, Islington-terrace, Park-road, Barnsbury—I was in Chapel-street, Pentonville, on Sunday, 21st April, about twenty-five minutes after—I had occasion to pass by the shop-door of Mr. Higgins, and saw the two men on this side of me (Liney and Quilter) come out—I had to make a momentary halt while they passed me—they came out of Mr. Higgins's shop—I did not see their faces then—they went up Chapel-street
—that leads into Penton-street—I followed them—they had with them a parcel about three feet long, apparently—it was covered over with an apron—they were carrying it between them—it was a butcher's apron, a blue apron—I did not see the strings—it was a heavy box—they walked up Chapel-street till they came to White Conduit-street—they turned up there to the end of Warren-street—they there put the box down in the road near a lamp-post; and I then stepped up to them, and saw that it was a painted box—one part of it was not covered with the apron, and I then saw the two men face to face—they changed positions there—Quilter was carrying it with his right hand up Chapel-street, and Liney with his left hand; and when they got to Warren-street, Quilter carried it with his left hand and Liney with his right.
COURT. Q. Are you sure these are the men? A. Positive.
MR. TAYLOR. Q. You did not follow them further, I believe? A. I for lowed them to Albert-street—they turned up Albert-street—that is towards the Caledonian-road—it was then half-past—I pulled out my watch and saw the time.
Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. It was dark, I suppose? A. The gas was alight—it was between the lights—no one came to me about this matter; I voluntarily came forward—about ten minutes after I had got home, my little boy, about ten years of age, came in and said that a young woman was murdered in Chapel-street—I went back to Chapel-street, and saw a great crowd of people there, and a number of policemen round the shop—I went up to a policeman, and asked him what was the matter—I do not know his name—I have not seen him since—I have been in communication with other policemen since, Waters and Tomkins—I have seen them on several occasions—I saw them on the Monday night following the Sunday at half-past—I was taken to identify these men at the station-house at Islington—they were put amongst others; they were not all dressed alike—I had previously given a description of the dress and appearance of these men to the two policemen who came round to me at half-past 8 on Monday night—I said that one had a light coat on; that was Quilter; and a hat that was curled at the brim on each side; a small face, with a long nose rather broad at the nostrils, and he had whiskers—I did not give the colour of the hair; I said the whiskers were then about the length of my little finger, and not wider, and he had also a tuft upon the chin—that was all the description I gave of him—I did not give the colour of his trousers, nor the shape of his boots, nor whether they were laced, nor the colour of his handkerchief, nor the form of his collar—I have been describing the man in the centre Quilter)—I gave that description to Tomkins and Waters—they took it down in writing at 10, Green-terrace, Gloucester-street, New River-head, where I am employed—when I identified him there was not another person of the same character and description with him—I saw one man among them, and I imagined in my own mind that I was looking for the man on this side (Liney), and I said, "That man is the height, but it is not the man"—I meant that he was the height of Liney—I did not on that occasion identify somebody else for one of the men—I am a gold and silver wire-drawer.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON (for Liney). Q. Did you describe the other man also? A. Yes—I said he was a shorter man than the other, and that he was dressed in dark clothes; that he wore what appeared to me to be a frock coat; it being between the lights I would not be positive as to the colour; it was dark, whether blue or black I could not say—I said he had light hair, and 1 believed he would have whiskers, only they were shaved off; and I then
said he had nit her a broad face—I hardly know how to describe the face to you; if I may be allowed the expression I used to the policeman, it was a three cornered face, wide across the eyes, and coming down rather narrow at the chin—the great peculiarity was the three-cornered face and the hair—I was not above two feet from the men as I followed them—I did not speak to them when they stopped; I stepped up to them, and it was then that I saw what they had grot—I stood for a moment, when Quilter turned his head over his shoulder and looked me full in the face—I thought he was about to strike me, and I stepped back—it appears that they were about to change hand—that did not occupy more than a minute, perhaps not so much—the gas was lighted, and they stopped immediately opposite the lamp-post, in the road, rather near the lamp-post—there were plenty of people passing and repassing—I did not speak to any one, or draw any one's attention to this—I did not see a policeman; if I had seen one, I should have told him that I had suspicion—I did not look for one—it was about half-past 8 on the Monday night following that I communicated to the police what I had seen—that was the first time I mentioned it to those two men; or, rather, the policemen came to me about it—I had previously mentioned it to the police man at the prosecutor's shop-door on the Sunday night—he asked my address, and I gave it—I did not give any description of the men to him; that was on the Monday night—I was not asked for it on the Sunday; I was on the Monday—I recognized Liney as a man who had worked for Mr. Higgins—I recognized him at the time I saw them put the box down, and then I concluded in my own mind that it was all right, he worked there—I had no we him working at Mr. Higgins's; I can't say for how long—I have been in the habit of passing by there twice a day, and I had seen him there—I will not say that I knew he worked there at that time; I knew that he had at one time—I did not know his name—I know Mr. Higgins—I was not in the habit of going to his house—I told the policeman that the man had worked at Mr. Higgins's at some time, if he did not then, for I had seen him there so frequently—I mean to swear that I told the policeman that one of the men had worked at Mr. Higgins's—I have always said so—I told that on the Monday night to the policeman to whom I gave the description.
MR. ATKINSON. Q. At the time you were taken to identify the men, was Tomkins there? A. He was not, to my knowledge—I did not go to the station with him; I went with Waters—I did not touch a man with a white smock, and say, "That is one of the men"—I touched no man.
Q. Do you recollect Quilter being told in your presence to sit down again, and did you leave the room with an officer? A. I only went into the room where the inspector keeps his books—I only stood in the doorway—the two men were not there then—I had only seen one there; that was Quilter—the other was not in custody—I saw Quilter several times—I looked at him through the window—that was after I had been in the room to see him—there was a policeman with me at that time, at some distance, writing in some book, in the same room with me.
JAMES HENRY CUMMINGS . I live at 32, Warren-street, Pentonville. On Sunday night, 21st April, from twenty-five minutes after 8 to twenty minutes to 9, I was in Chapel-street—I know Mr. Higgins' shop—I saw the two prisoners nearest me (Quilter and Liney)—I first saw them at the corner of Warren-street, that is in White Conduit-street—they had a box with them—I took it to be one of those black portmanteaus—it might be about that length (about two and a half feet)—and there was something thrown very carelessly over it, I fancied it was a coat or something—I saw
the men's faces—what drew my attention to them was the one nearest me (Liney) when close to the gas light seemed to be leaning on one side, through having a great weight—they were going up White Conduit-street, going towards Barnsbury-road—that is towards the Caledonian-road.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You were not examined before the Magistrate, were you? A. I was not—I was present, but was not called—I had mentioned to the gentleman I am employed by, what I knew upon the matter—I had not mentioned it to the police until the policeman came to me, and asked me what I knew about it—I think he called at my residence four or five times before I saw him—I think I saw him on the Friday following the Sunday when this took place—I was summoned to be before the Magistrate, and was there, but not called—I am the overseer at a printing office—I was standing at the corner of the street—it was when the change of hands took place that I saw the men—I thought nothing more of it until I heard of the robbery—it made no impression upon my mind, no more than seeing somebody with a very heavy box—I was not talking to any one—I live three doors from the corner, and I very often stop there of an evening—it was the Monday week following that I saw the prisoner at the police-court—that was after there had been one examination before the Magistrate—I went there by myself—I was ordered to go by the policeman—I did not see the two men in the dock—they were placed in a cell with ten or a dozen; I did not count the number—I believe they had been examined—I was not present at any examination—some persons were in the yard, but no one with me—I gave a description of the men I had seen, to Tomkins on the Friday—I picked these men out at once—I did not take many seconds to do it—I picked out the centre one first (Quilter)—they were both together in the cell, not standing together—they were both in the same cell, not together—one was in one corner, and the other as it may be there—after I had picked out Quilter my eye did not range about till I found a little one—I picked out the two—I said, "There and there"—those were the words I made use of—the constable was pot with me when I picked them out—there were ten or a dozen in the cell when I identified them—the inspector was a short distance from me behind, and there were several persons in the yard, but they had nothing to do with me—I used the words "There, and there," to Inspector Judge, who was close by—he went from the room to the cell door.
HENRY BIGGS . I am a cabman, "No. 12,810," and live at 4, Stevenson-terrace, Caledonian-road. On Sunday evening, 21st April, I was in the Caledonian-road, with my cab en the stand—about twenty minutes past 9 I was called off the stand by the prisoner Strugnell—he got up on the cab, and ordered me to drive into Lion-street—that was just across the Caledonian-road, about thirty yards off—the cab-stand is about a mile from Mr. Higgins' shop in Chapel-street—when I got into Lion-street I asked Strugnell where I was to pick up—he told me to draw just round there, and I drew, and stood right opposite the private door of 6, Stevenson-terrace—after I had stood there about a minute, two young men brought a box, and placed it outside my cab—the other two prisoners are the men, I am quite certain—the box might have been about that length and that depth (describing it)—it appeared heavy as they carried it—it went down a rare bump when they placed it inside the cab—the two men got in afterwards, and told me to drive to the corner of South-street, Southampton-street, Pentonville-hill—I know who they were, those two that stand there—I noticed them at the time—Liney got out at the house in South-street, and knocked at the door—some
one came and told him to knock three times—he knocked three times, and the party he asked for was not at home—he then got inside the cab, and they told me to drive to the Crown public-house on Pentonville-hill—I drove there, and we had a pot of half and half, which Liney fetched—I drank some—we stayed there about five or six minutes, and Strugnell then wished them "good-night," and went off—I never saw him from that day till I saw him down at Clerkenwell—after he left, the other prisoners told me to go to Camden-town—I went there—they pulled me up at a public-house—we had a pot of half-and-half there, and we all had a smoke together—we were there about a quarter-of-an-hour—they then ordered me to drive back to South ampton-street, to the corner, to South-street, where I had previously called—they said the party was not at home—they stopped there, and smoked a pipe, and waited till they did come—they paid me 4s. for my fare—each gave me 2s. and they took the box put, and took it to the comer of South-street.
Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. I observe you are a little deaf? A. Yes, and have been so all my life; deaf on one side entirely—I had a piece taken out of the inside of my mouth—I cannot say what the box was filled with.
Cross-examined by MR. PALMER. Q."Where were you when the box went down with a bump? A. On the cab, watching the men put the box into the cab—Liney and Quilter put it in together—one had hold of one side, and one the other, and they handed it into the cab—it appeared to me like a box—not like a portmanteau in the least—I cannot say whether it was an apron or cloak on the top of it—it had a covering over it—it was at night, and I was on the top of the cab, and I cannot swear what it was—I know it had a loose covering over it—it was dark that night—I do not know whether it was an apron, or cloak, or what—I never saw the men before, that I know of—I next saw one of them at the police-station, on the Wednesday following, and the next one on the Thursday.
LUKE JAMES TOMKINS (Policeman, N 315). I received information of this robbery—I went to Strugnell's place in Basinghall-street on the same Sunday night, and took him into custody—I afterwards took Quilter in custody in River-street, or Sidney-street, Maiden-lane, King's-cross—on searching his premises I found some property, but having nothing to do with this present charge—while searching the house I saw Liney—he was in the downstairs apartment; the kitchen, sitting on a table—this was on the Wednesday after the robbery, the 24th—Liney was then taken in custody—the witness Granger gave a description to me of the persons he had seen.
Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you take that down in writing? A. I did; I put it on a piece of paper—I thought no more of it—I got the paper out of my pocket; it was a piece that I had in my pocket-book—to the best of my recollection, it was about half-past 8 o'clock on Monday night after the robbery on the Sunday, that he gave me this description—I believe it was Monday night, to the best of my recollection; it is a long while ago now—I was not present when he was taken to identify them at the station—Quilter was taken to the station—he remained there till next morning before he was taken before the magistrate—I was present when Granger identified him—that was on the Wednesday—I had seen Granger before that; he had given me the description—I cannot recollect whether I saw him after he gave me the description—I might have done—I was not the person that made the arrangement for the men being identified—there were arrangements made to put them among other men—I do not think the men were dressed all alike—they were very nearly all his age; some taller,
some shorter, and there was a man of the same size—I cannot tell you his name—I knew where he lives; he lives at the station-house—he was a policeman—I do not think he wears his hair like Quilter; I really cannot tell you, I did not take that notice—I have not got the paper on which I took down the description of Quilter—I dare say I might find it—I do not know what has become of it; it was only a rough sketch of my own—I did not see the two men opposite the prosecutor's shop on the Monday or Tuesday, or any time during the week—there is the charge room at the station, and a window that lifts up—I did not see Granger go to the window and look through it at Quilter several times; he might—I do not recollect saying any thing to him after I had seen this man—I do not recollect that he said any thing when he first saw Quilter—he did not put his hand on another man in a white smock—Quilter had not a white smock—I do not think he put his hand on a man—I did not see a man with a white smock on—I did not say anything about a white smock—there might have been a man there with a white smock; I do not remember—I did not go out behind the window with Granger after he had identified Quilter—I saw Granger there—he put his hand on a man, and said it was like him, but that was not him—that was a man some where about the size of Liney—the other man was not dressed like Quilter—he put his hand on the man, and that was like him—Quilter was not dressed as he is now—he had on a brown coat—the man that Granger said was like him had a dark coat; either black or brown; and, I think, different coloured hair—he was about the same size; I cannot tell you exactly.
Gross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you receive any description of Liney? A. I did, from Granger—I took that down too—I have not got the paper here—he told me that he was a short man, bull-necked, red in the face, and he believed that he had been working in Chapel-street, or thereabouts—I was there when Liney was identified—he was not identified at the same time as the other man—Granger identified him—I was in the court when Cummings identified him—Cummings pointed out the two prisoners—I cannot recollect what he said; he said something—there was an inspector there, Mr. Judge—I think he was close to Cummings—the cell was nearly full at the time he picked him out—there were a good many prisoners: eight or ten I expect.
MR. TAYLOR. Q. You were asked about the identification of Quilter, was that before Liney was in custody? A. Yes; it was before he had identified Quilter that Granger said the other man was like him, but was not the man—when he first went into the station, he pointed out a man, and said, "That is like him, but that is not the man;" and then afterwards he pointed out Quilter.
THOMAS WATERS (Policeman, N 56). I took Liney into custody—I told him I had come about the job in Chapel-street—he said, "For Mr. Higgins?"—I said, "Yes"—I told him to be careful what he said—he then said, "Oh, I expected to be taken into custody, for I used to work for him"—I asked Mm then if he was in South-street on Sunday night—he said he was not—he then said he was; that he went to get measured for a waistcoat; there was a man there that he knew as a tailor, his name was Raymond.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You took him at Quilter's, is that so? A. Yes, on Wednesday night, 24th April, about half-past 6 o'clock—he said the tailor's name was Raymond—I know him; he puts himself up as a tailor—I don't whether he is here.
Q. Were you present when Liney was identified by Cummings? A. I was—there were several other prisoners in the cell, and the question was asked him whether he knew any of them, and he pointed to these two—they were with others—I cannot say whether they were standing close together; there were several others in the cell—I do not think they were standing next to one another, but I cannot charge my memory—I cannot say whether one was in one corner of the cell, and one in the other—Granger did not say any. thing to me—Cummings only pointed and said, "That is one, and that is one."
Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you hear Granger say, "That is like the man," pointing to another man? A. I did not.
George Dwyer, boot-maker, Thomas Carter, tripe-dresser, York-street, Camden-town, Thomas Leonard, 4, Great Randolph-street, Somers-town, William George Slade, tailor, 11, Chapel-street, Pentonville, and Henry Richardson, cheesemonger 28, Chapel-street, deposed to Liney's good character; and Henry William Robinson, coffee-house keeper, Danes Inn, Strand, to that of Quilter.
STRUGNELL— GUILTY .—
QUILTER— GUILTY .—
LINEY— GUILTY .—
Five Years' Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, July 10th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. BARON BRAMWELL; Mr. Ald. WILLIAM LAWRENCE; and Mr. Ald. CONDER.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution, and MR. MCDONNELL
GUILTY of the attempt. —He received a good character.— Confined Two Years.
MR. SLEIGH for the Prosecution stated that the Grand Jury had thrown out the bill for rape, and as the offence must either be rape or nothing, he should offer no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
NOT GUILTY (see Old Court, Thursday.)
MR. ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY .— Penal Servitude for life.
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH DENDY (Police-inspector, H). Early on the morning of 7th Jane, the deceased was brought to the station-house bleeding from a severe wound on the nose—I sent for a doctor, and by his advice she was sent to the London Hospital.
TIMOTHY CARROLL . I am a labourer, of 1, Royal Mint-street, Whitechapel—the deceased was my sister—her name was Catharine Daley; she was misfortunate—she could work if she thought proper—I saw her alive at the hospital, and afterwards saw her dead on Monday morning.
MARY FLYNN . I am the wife of William Flynn, of 11, Gun-square, Houndsditch—I knew Catharine Daley a few years back—on 6th June I met her about 11 o'clock, and went with her to a public-house to give her a pint of beer—the prisoner and her husband were there before we went in, and a lot of people drinking—we drank the pint of beer, and the prisoner's husband asked the deceased if she would have a glass of stout—she said, "Yes"—he said, "Kitty, how many years since you and I slept together?" she said she never slept with him, but when she slept with a man it was a good man, and it was in a foreign country—a few words occurred between the prisoner and Daley, and the prisoner struck her with a quart pot, across the nose, and said that she would do the same to any person who would take her part—Daley staggered and went over by the wall—she bled fearfully from the nose, about a quart of blood—I said, "It is a shame to see a woman bleed to death like that, and the barman came out and helped me out of the bar with her—I am quite sure the prisoner was in the public-house before—the deceased did not say, "What authority have you over the man; but they called one another names for about five minutes—I did not hear the prisoner tell Catharine Daley he was her husband; she knew that, because they had known one another for years—the prisoner called Catharine Daley a whore first; and she said she was none, she was a married woman, and her husband had gone to gaol—that language continued for about five minutes before she took up the pot.
GEORGE CHAPMAN . I am barman at the Blue Peter, Rosemary-lane—my attention was not drawn to the parties before the quart pot was used, and I cannot say what passed; but I saw the pot taken from her hand after the blow was struck—I do not know whether the prisoner was in the house before the deceased—I could not hear what was said, but I have no doubt it was aggravating language.
THOMAS KITCHEN . I am house-surgeon to the London Hospital—on Friday morning, 7th June, about half-past 1, the deceased was brought there with a compound fracture of the bones of the nose—there had been a great deal of blood lost, and she was still bleeding—we checked the hemorrhage and sent her to bed—she died on Monday night at half-past 8, from delirium tremens: produced by the blow, acting on a drunkard—I consider that she was tipsy when brought in, and I judge from her appearance that she was a woman of intemperate habits—the bone was not only broken, but it projected through the skin—the wound in the flesh was caused by the broken fragment of the bone—it must have been a violent blow—the bones are rather strong there, because they are arched—if she had been in good health, it would probably not have killed her—a quart pot is not a more dangerous thing to strike with than any other blunt instrument—they are not all sharp at the bottom.
COURT to GEORGE CHAPMAN. Q. Was this a common quart pot? A. A pewter; it has something for it to stand on—it is hollowed underneath, and has a sharp edge round—it weighs about 2lbs. perhaps.
COURT to THOMAS KITCHEN. Q. Suppose a person had that in their hand and struck on the face forwards, is not it a dangerous thing to strike with? A. Most certainly; the deceased would most likely not have died from
delirium tremens, without this accident—the delirium tremens was brought on by the blow.
FRANCIS KELLY (Policeman, H 130). I took the prisoner, on Tuesday, 11th June—I said, "Let me caution you what you say after I tell you the charge that is against you: you are charged with the wilful murder of Kit Carter"—she said, "I did 'do it; I caught her in the public-house with my husband"—I put her in a cab—I repeatedly cautioned her—she said, "I did do it Mr. Kelly, and am very sorry for it."
The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows;—"My husband went out to work at 5 in the morning, and I went out in search of him between 11 and 12 at night, and found him in this public-house drinking with this woman—he was drunk; she was three-parts drunk—I said to him, "Don't you think it is almost time you should come home?"—he said, "Yes, I will, when I have drank this beer"—this woman had the pot in her hand, drinking—she said, "What authority have you over him?"—I said, "Of course I have, he is my husband"—go on you b----y whore, she says, and threw what was in the pot over me—I took the pot out of her hand, and in the confusion I hit her with it on the nose—she went to catch hold of me by the hair of the head, and I hit her.
Prisoner's Defence. My husband went out to work at 5 o'clock that morning; it was getting late and I went in search of him and found him drinking with this prostitute; the woman said, "What authority have you over him?" I said, "He is my husband;" she said, "Go on, you b----y whore," and threw some beer over me and my baby; previous to this he had been with her two days and a night, and he has left me two days without food; but my father has given it to me, and I owe my father 14s. for it now.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of the very great provocation she received. — Confined Nine Months.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN SHAUGNESSEY I am a labourer, of 4, Pump-court, Philip-lane—on Saturday night, 22d June, about twenty minutes past 10, I was with my wife in Whitecross-street, going from Cripplegate on the right side of the way—I saw a woman crossing from the prison side—the prisoner was before her—they were quarrelling, and he came across the road where I was—she followed, with something in her hand and struck him with it, and he turned and struck her a violent blow with his fist on her head, and she came down with her head on the stones—I took her up and kept her till two policeman came, and my wife told them to take her to the hospital—a lot of women said that she was drunk, but I said that she was not.
JOSEPH GREENHILL . I am house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital—the deceased was brought there on Saturday night about 11 o'clock—I thought at first that it was concussion of the brain—there was a small wound on the left side of the head two inches above the ear—she died the following morning about 10 o'clock—I made a post mortem examination on the Monday, and found an effusion of blood pressing upon the brain; but I could not find a ruptured vessel—such a wound would most probably be caused by a fall.
COURT. Q. Do you suppose the same blow which caused the wound was that which caused the rupture of the vessel from which that blood had got on the brain? A. I believe so—I could find no extra mark of a bruise as though a blow had been given—a blow on the side of the head is very dangerous, more so than one in front.
MARY ANN MARSHALL . I am the wife of William Marshall, of I, Gateway-place, Radnor-street, St. Luke's—I knew the deceased—her name was Mary Ann Bunce—she was a widow—I did not see her after the blow—the police showed me her clothes on the day of the murder, and I am quite sure they were hers.
Prisoner. Q. How long had you known her? A. About eighteen months—she had complained for the last month of violent pains and giddiness in her head.
JOHN CLAYDEN . I am beadle at St Bartholomew's Hospital—I gave these clothes (produced) to the constable—they are the clothes of a woman that came in a state of insensibility, and died—I did not see them taken off her, but I saw them by her bedside after she lay dead.
CHARLES BAKER (Policeman). On 1st July I went to Mr. Green's, the Broadway, London-fields, and saw the prisoner working at a blacksmith's shop—I asked him his name—he said, "My name is James Cain"—I said, "I am a detective policeman, and am going to ask you some questions; you must be very cautious as to what you state, as it may be used against you—I then asked him if he knew a female, named Mary Ann Bunce—he said, "Yes;"—I asked him when he saw her last—he said, "Saturday night week"—I asked him where—he said, "In Whitecross-street"—I said, "Did anything happen?" he said, "Yes; we had a few words, and she flung a piece of bread and meat in my face, and I up with my hand and hit her on the side of the face, near the back part of it—she fell to the ground, and I walked away"—I told him he must consider himself in custody for causing the death of Mary Ann Bunce.
COURT to JOHN SHAUGNESSY. Q. Do you say that he hit her with his fist? A. Yes; I was about three yards from her—it was not a strong blow—it was round, like this, with the fist—I do not think it was with the flat of the hand—as soon as he struck her she went away.
Prisoner's Defence. It was completely accidental; I have a witness to call, Mrs. Jones.
MRS. JONES. The prisoner and the deceased came to my house at about half-past 8 o'clock on Saturday night—they had a little drink when in my company—they gave 8s. and bought a pair of boots—they left my house quite comfortable—I called the prisoner on Tuesday morning, and he said he had a few words with his old woman—next day my husband and I had him at our house to dinner and tea, and I saw no more of him till he was in Newgate—they seemed very happy and comfortable—it was from a quarter to half-past 9 when they left my house.
COURT. Q. Had they got any bread and meat with them? A. No; but they told me afterwards that they went into a shop and got some.
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
LUCY MANLEY . I am the wife of James Mauley, of 10, Payne-street, Caledonian-road—the prisoner lived in the back parlour—she was confined about a month ago, with a girl—on Monday week, 1st July, I saw her go
out at 11 o'clock with her other child, a boy about eight months old—I was sweeping my stairs down about half-past 11, and heard the noise of the baby—I told my landlady, and in consequence of what passed between us, I went to the back parlour window, put my hand through a broken pane, and pulled the blind on one side, but could not see anything, though I could hear the baby—I pushed the window up, got into the room, and heard the same noise much plainer—it was a stifling, moaning noise, and proceeded from the bed—I pulled the bed-clothes down a little way, and could not see the baby—I pulled them down further, and found it lying on its face, with this old dirty shirt sleeve (produced) in its mouth, near the middle of the bed, and nearer to one side than the other—the clothes were tucked tightly over at the sides—the rag might have been two inches inside the mouth—I lifted the child up and pulled out the rag—the ends of the rag fell over its face—it was black in the face, and its eyes started from its head—my landlady got in at the window after me, and was with me—the door was locked all this while—she did not do anything to the child—she fetched a person to suckle it, after it recovered—the eyelids were lifted up, and a skin of corruption had formed over the eyes—the woman who was sent for, wrapped it in a shawl and took it over to her place to wash it—she suckled it in the prisoner's room, and it seemed very ravenous—it was wrapped in an old dirty frock.
Prisoner. You never found the cloth in my baby's mouth; I did not want to make away with it; one child is as dear to me as the other; it is only an eighth months' baby, and she throws up; you never got in through my window unless it was to injure me.
COUBT. Q. Do you know the child's name? A. No; but I know the young woman who took it to be christened—the rag was not part of the bedclothes, or anything which the child could have got hold of—it was in too weak a state—it was only eighteen days old.
MARGARET CANNON . I am the wife of William Cannon, of 10, Paynestreet—we keep the house—the last witness and the prisoner both lodged with us—the prisoner and her husband lodged in the back-parlour—on 1st July, about a quarter or twenty minutes past 11, Mrs. Manley tapped at the door, and after we had talked in the kitchen, I told her to go and look through the back-parlour window—she got in at the window first, and I after her—the bed was closely tucked up, and I saw her take out the child, with a rag in its mouth, which she took out—it was almost suffocated—it was under the bed-clothes half-way down, and rather towards the side—the bed-clothes were tucked up at top and bottom, and the sides tucked in all round—I called the neighbours, and asked one of them to suckle it—the prisoner returned about I o'clock—there was a policeman there, but I did not give her in custody—I know the young woman who took the child to be christened when it was a week old—they called it Kate Connor, after the father—I did not hear the prisoner call it any name, it was too young.
Prisoner. Q. Was I not up every night with it? A. I do not know—I heard it cry a good deal, and used to ask you how it was—you said, "Very poorly; just alive, and that is all—I do not know whether you treated it kindly or unkindly.
COURT. Q. Is it possible the child could have got this into its mouth in trying to suck? A. Well, it was very weak, and there was not a chance for it to turn over, it was so tucked in, and we found it on its hands and knees he baby?"—I never said. "How is Kitty?" I said, "How is CATHERINE COLLINS. I am the wife of John Collins, and lodge in the
the back-room up stairs—I have only known the prisoner since she has been in the house—I cannot tell how long that is—on 1st July, about 11 o'clock, she said that she had had a very restless night, and she wished the little baby was in heaven—I have heard the mother call the child Katy Connor.
Prisoner. Q. You are the only woman that advised to keep the cloth about the baby's neck to keep it dry, because it would not bear the breast-milk. A. Yes; because it used to spew up—you used a bit of white linen-rag, and sometimes a pocket-handkerchief—I do not know how you treated it.
JOHN WISE WILSON . I am a surgeon, of 22, Brunswick-place, Barnsbury-road—on 1st July, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I was sent for to the police-station, and examined the prisoner's child—it was very much emaciated, and suffering from inflammation of both eyelids, from which a great amount of matter issued—there was a sore in the right groin, evidently from neglect; and lividity of the countenance, showing that air had been shut off from the lungs for some period, and it was slightly convulsed—I examined the prisoner at the station, both her breasts were very much distended with milk, painfully so—she could not have given the child the breast for some time—from the appearance of the child's strength it is quite impossible that it could have put the rag into its mouth itself—it might have lived from five to eight minutes more in the position in which it was lying.
COURT. Q. Is it possible that the child could have been covered up under the clothes, with a rag in its mouth, and live for a quarter of an hour? A. Yes; the stoppage of the air not being perfect—the child being hungry could not have sucked the rag into its mouth, without poking it in with its hand; not to that distance; not to have produced the effect it did, because there was lividity of the countenance; therefore it must have been further than just inside the lips—that is the child (In the prisoner's arms)—I have not examined it.
THOMAS LAW (Policeman, N 380). I received information on 1st May, and went to Payne-street—I saw the prisoner on her return home about half-past I—I said that I took her in charge for attempting to suffocate her child by placing a rag in its mouth—she said that she was not aware that the rag was in its mouth; but it was in the habit of vomiting a great deal, and the rag was placed under the chin to catch it—I took her to the station.
JOHN WISE WILSON (re-examined). I find now that the child is thriving—it is a very dangerous thing to cover a child right over with the clothes, and that is the reason of the death of so many young children—I have been frequently called to cases where a child is found dead—I have heard that people in the lower classes of life, think it right to cover children altogether, but it is a dangerous plan.
Jury. Q. Was the state of the woman's health from the overflow of milk likely to affect her bodily health, or her mind? A. No, not at that time; because the milk had formed within a few hours, and to have affected her mind it must have been a protracted case.
Jury to MARGARET CANNON. Q. How many days after the woman's confinement was it? A. I cannot say exactly; but the baby was a month old last Friday morning, as near as I can remember.
GUILTY—Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of her recent confinement.
Fifteen Years' Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, July 10th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Aid. CHALLIS; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Aid. CONDER.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
ALEXIS DUPAY . I am a General in the army. On Saturday I came from London-bridge, and was in Cheapside—I could not move; I was blocked up by the mob, and felt as if something had been taken out of my pocket—I felt a pull and looked below, and saw my watch chain hanging-close by me was a young man of that size, and I held on to him thinking he must have been the thief—he said, "Search me," and I thought from his saying so he had not got the watch, and I saw another, who began to cry out, "Search me, search me, I have nothing"—I took him too, and immediately a gentleman behind me said, "Oh, here's your watch, he has let it drop"—I did not see him drop it.
THOMAS ELLIS NOBBS . I live at 6, Albert-place, City-road—I was directly behind the last witness on this Saturday afternoon—I saw him lay hold of a boy, and afterwards lay hold of the prisoner—the moment I heard the click of a watch go, I felt for my own, but I had left it at home, and I saw a watch dropped right between my legs; it came from the prisoner—I am positive it was he who threw it down—there were three of them, but the crowd was so great I could not get at them—I am sure it was the prisoner—I could not get at him for the moment.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me steal the watch? A. No; my clerk who was with me saw another boy give you the watch.
Prisoner's Defence. I was standing in Cheapside and saw the prosecutor struggling with another person. I moved away, and then the witness said, "Here is your watch."
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
GEORGE TILLEY (Policeman). I produce a certificate—(Bead: "Guildhall Justice Room, 30th August, 1860; William Hatswood, convicted of stealing a handkerchief.—Confined Six Months.") I had the person named then in custody—the prisoner is the person there convicted.
GUILTY.**— Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE SHILLITO . I am an accountant and cashier at the Bill of Entry Office—the prisoner was in the service of the Directors—it was his duty to receive the various sums from the persons who take in a copy of the Bills of Entry, and to pay it over to me—the newsman, who distributed the papers when the prisoner did not, was to receive hair-a-crown a quarter from each
person—it was the prisoner's duty to pay the various newsmen the sums to which they were entitled—on 15th June the sums mentioned here were due to those persons for the distribution of the papers—this is a list in the prisoner's writing of the different persons to whom the money was due—amongst those there is a person named Henry Fanner—it purports to show that 5s. was due to Henry Farmer, up to March, 1860—the amount added up in his writing, is 9l. 10s.—on 15th June he paid me 9l. 10s., and gave me this receipt—he produced this receipt of Farmer's to me; I cannot say when—it was after 24th July—it is the ordinary form in which receipts from the various newsmen are made out, and given to me after the sums have been paid.
COURT. Q. You pay him the money, 9l. 10s., and he is to produce the vouchers to you for he various sums? A. Yes—(Receipt read: "Received for delivery of Bills of Entry, due up to March last 1860, Wigram, 2s. 6d., Robinson, 2s. 6d., total, 5s. Signed, Henry Farmer, July 24th, 1860.")—I believe that to be the prisoner's writing—I believe this signature to be the prisoner's—my attention was not called to it till lately, till he was charged with something—he left on 15th April; did not return to his employment, and the next I saw of him was in custody, on 20th or 21st June.
Prisoner. I was at the office on 1st May, and he met me in the office and spoke to me. Witness. I did see you then; I mentioned that before the Magistrate—I never saw you again till 20th or 21st June.
COURT. Q. You knew he was going to leave? A. No; I was not aware he was going to leave on 15th April.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. He did not leave in the regular way? A. No, he did not.
HENRY FARMER . Up to the last day of March, 1860, a sum of 5s. was due to me for distributing bills of entry to the gentlemen whose names are here—I never received that from the prisoner—this is not my writing.
COURT. Q. Did you ever authorize the prisoner to receive it for you, and to sign your name to any receipt? A. Never.
Prisoner. Mr. Farmer called on me at the latter end of last summer—I paid him 10s., and he gave a receipt for it. Witness. I received two quarters of him which were due to me in June.
COURT. Q. Do you mean June last year? A. Yes, they were due to me; he was behindhand with his payments—he did not pay me up to June—whatever they were I gave him a receipt for them, which was not this receipt—the money for Mr. Wigram and Mr. Robinson, for delivery to them, is what he alludes to; previous quarters—when the quarters became overdue, I applied to Mr. Shillito, the cashier—he has been behindhand ever since he has paid those two—what he paid me was due previous to March, 1859—I have never received for the quarter due in March, 1860—the body of the receipt is in the prisoner's writing.
Prisoner's Defence. All I can say is I know I paid the money one afternoon to Mr. Farmer himself at my own house, in the month of August.
GUILTY of uttering. — Four Years Penal Servitude.
CHARLOTTE REBECCA. MR. THISON . I am the wife of Eobert Mathison, of Silver-street, Enfield—on Tuesday, 2d July, I had occasion to pay some money, between half-past 10 and 11 o'clock—I went to the till for that
purpose, and took out a bag in which I kept my money—after I had taken the money out, I left the bag to the best of my recollection in the till, but I could not swear to it; if not there, I left it on the counter—I then went upstairs to my husband—this bag (produced) is my husband's; I know it by a piece of new tape that I put on a few days previous—there were four half-sovereigns, a quantity of silver, and a fourpenny piece in it—I saw a fourpenny piece there which I should know by a piece taken out at the side—I had observed that—I cannot say when I had seen it in the bag; a few days previously—I was away from the shop about three minutes—I then came down the door was open—I went to the till and saw the bag was gone—I had left the door shut—I do not know what money there was in the bag, only the four half-sovereigns—they are in the bag now.
MARGARET BEVAN . I am the wife of James Bevan of Silver-street, Enfield, and live next door to Mrs. Mathison—I remember her coming in to me on the morning of 2nd July, and making some complaint—within five minutes before that I had seen the prisoner come out of her shop, and pass my window.
Prisoner. Q. You said I had a jacket on? A. I said to Mrs. Mathison that the person I had seen pass had one on.
CHARLOTTE REBECCA MATHISON (re-examined). I knew the prisoner by sight previously—I went into Mrs. Bevan's directly I discovered the loss of the bag—I know nothing of any French coin being in the bag.
CHARLES CRACENELL . I am a coal merchant of Enfield—on 2d of July, I was at the Nag's Head, in the morning between 10 and 11 o'clock—I saw the prisoner come in through the door as I was standing against the bar—he called for half a pint of porter, I think, but he neither drank it nor paid for it, but cut out at the door as quick as he could—if a person came from Mrs. Mathison's and passed by Mrs. Bevan's, he would then come to the back entrande of the Nag's Head.
WILLIAM TAYLOR . I am potman at the Nag's Head—on 2d July, I saw the prisoner, as near as I can tell, a little after half-past 10 o'clock; between that and 11—he was going towards the closet, at the back part of the boose—I went to the closet, it might be an hour afterwards, and I observed a piece of the seat broken away—I had been there that morning; the seat was not broken then—a policeman came to search, and I said something to him.
PAUL PRITCHARD (Policeman, N 237). I went to the Nag's Head in consequence of some information that I had received—I searched the premises—I did not search the water-closet the first day—I did the following day—I found a part where the seat had been broken away—I looked under that part and found a bag with the money in it that has been produced, four half-sovereigns, 2l. 9s. 5d. in silver, and this half franc—I had previously apprehended the prisoner.
The prisoner read a written defence, stating that lie had passed the prosecutor's shop on the day in question, but denied living gone in until taken in by the policeman; and that the shops of the prosecutor and Mrs. Bevan, eauh having a flat front, it would not be possible for a person standing in Mrs. Bevan's to see any one coming out of the prosecutor's.
COURT to, MARGARET BEVAN. Q. Where were you standing in your shop? A. About here—(Describing the position)—the window has a glass that slides;
it is close to Mr. Mathison's door, and I heard the bell strike at their door—I looked up and saw the prisoner come out—I can see every one go in land out—my attention was drawn by hearing the bell—I had known the prisoner previously by sight—there was not more than one person passed—I saw him coming towards the shop—I did not observe him go in, but I am positive as to his coming out—he was alone.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, July 10th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Aid. CONDEB; Mr. COMMON SERJEANT; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BIGG (Policeman, A 435). I produce a certificate of conviction (Read: Central Criminal Court, September 17th, 1860.—Eliza Palmer convicted, on her own confession, of uttering two counterfeit shillings-confined One Year)—the prisoner is the person.
THOMAS PALMER . I keep a public-house in Long-lane, Smithfield—some time in June last, the prisoner came into my house, she asked for a half a pint of beer; I served her, and she gave me a bad shilling—I told her it was bad, and asked if she had got any more—she then put down a bad two-shilling piece, and said nothing—I told her it was bad, and said, "Cone put down another," she then put down another bad shilling—I did not give her in charge at first—she was brought back to me—I gave her in charge, and gave the money to the policeman.
RICHARD LOUGHBOROUGH (City-policeman, 284). I took the prisoner in custody on Tuesday, 25th June, and took her to the station-house—last witness gave me these two shillings and a florin (produced)—she Was in the dock for a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I handed her ever to the female searcher—the prisoner gave toe her address, 17, Fester-buildings, White Cross-street—I went there, she was not known—I received three shillings in this rag (produced) from Marshall the searcher.
SUSAN MARSHALL . I am female searcher at the station—I searched the prisoner on 25th June, and found on her one shilling and sixpence in good money, and fourpence halfpenny worth of coppers, which I handed to the policeman—I was present when the prisoner was put in the dock at the station—I received this parcel from the charwoman there—I saw her pick it up in the dock where the prisoner had been, that was on the following morning—there had been a drunken woman in the dock between the time when the prisoner was there and the next morning—I gave the three shillings to the last witness.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Mint—the florin and two shillings (produced) are counterfeit, and the three shillings are also bad, and there is one of them from the same mould as one of the two tendered.
Prisoner. I hope you will have mercy upon me.
GUILTY .**— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS, CRAWFORD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
JANE JAQUES . I am the wife of George Jaques, an oilman, of 2, Backroad, Shadwell—on 21st June last, the prisoner White came into oar shop for a quartern of soap, and some soda, which came to twopence—she gave me a shilling, and I gave her tenpence change—I examined it afterwards, when she was gone, and found it was bad; I marked it and put it on the shelf—on Saturday evening, between 5 and 6, Barry came in and asked for a quartern of mottled soap, and gave me a bad shilling in payment; I bit it and told her it was bad—she said she did not know it—I then sent for a constable and gave her in charge—I said to her, "You knew this was bad, and the party I have seen you with tendered me one on Friday, between 12 and 1 o'clock"—she said she did not know the party—the policeman took her to the station—I only gave him the marked shilling which I had received from Mary Ann White—I gave another policeman the other—I went to the police station, and while there, White was brought in by another constable—I don't know his name, I gave him the other shilling—I have seen the prisoners walking together dozens of times; they have not been in my shop together, they have passed on the other side of the way; that might be three or four years ago—I have known them about the place together—I cannot say the last time I saw them together.
WILLIAM HUNT (Policeman, A 478). I took Barry in charge from last witness, and she gave me this shilling at the same time (produced)—one shilling, two sixpences, and 4 1/2 d. in copper, all good money, were found on Barry.
COURT. Did Barry tell you where she got it from? A. She said she received it for some work; from some tailor, I believe.
Barry. Q. Did I not say from Mr. Baldock, a tailor, at 17, Albert-street? A. Yes.
HENRY MARSH (Policeman, K 469). On 22d June last, I was on duty at Back-road, Shadwell, and saw a constable taking Barry into the station—I was coming right past at the time—that was twenty or thirty yards from Mrs. Jaques' shop, and just as they turned the corner, White was pointed out to me by Mrs. Jaques' daughter—in consequence of what she said, I took White to the station—Mrs. Jaques was there, and when I brought White in, she said, "Oh, this is the other one that came and passed a bad shilling, between 12 and 1 yesterday"—the prisoners were put in the dock together, and White said she knew nothing about it, and knew nothing of Mrs. Jaques, or of Barry—she was searched, but there was no money found upon her—Mra Jaques gave me this shilling (produced).
Barry. I have nothing to say except I received it for my work.
White. I gave her the shilling, but I did not know whether it was good or bad. I went by her house about an hour after, and saw her at the door, and she took no notice of me at all.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH ANN ANTILL . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop, at Hoxton Old Town—on 26th June last, the prisoner came into the shop and asked for a quarter of an ounce of tobacco, which was three farthings—I served her, and she gave me sixpence in payment—I put it in the till—there was no other sixpence there—I gave her change, and she left the shop—directly
after she left I looked at the sixpence, found it was a bad one, and put it by—I was in the shop the next night when the prisoner came in—she asked for a quarter of an ounce of tobacco—my daughter Amelia served her, and I saw her put down a sixpence—my daughter gave it to me, and I saw it was bad—I knew the prisoner again, and told her it was a bad one, and I thought I must give her in custody, as she gave me one before on the last evening—the prisoner then left the shop and ran very fast away—my nephew followed her, and she was brought back by a policeman—I gave the two sixpences to him.
JOHN GILL (Policeman, N 299). I stopped the prisoner in Old-street-road, on the night in question—I saw a boy named George Fox pursuing her—I took her to the shop of Mr. Antill, and there received two sixpences, which I produce—Mr. Antill accused her of being there the previous night, and passing a bad sixpence—a good sixpence was found upon her—she told me she lived at No. 12, Old Montague-street, Spitalfields—I went there, and the house was empty; shut up.
Prisoner's Defence. I work hard for my living, and did not know they were bad.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
MARIA PULLEN . My father is a dairyman, at 106, London-wall—I was in the shop on Monday, 10th June—the prisoner came in and asked for four eggs—I served her—they came to fourpence, and she gave me a two shilling piece—I gave her 1s. 8d. change—I put that two shilling piece in the till—there was no other there—about five minutes afterwards I gave it to the servant to go and get some beer—I am sure it was the same—she brought it back again, gave it to me, and I gave it to my father—four days after that I was again in the shop, and the prisoner came in, asked for four eggs, and gave me a two shilling piece—I took it into the parlour to my father—he came out, and gave her into custody.
Prisoner. I was never there before.
COURT. Q. Did you know her as having been there before? A. Yes; I knew her again as being the person who passed the two shilling piece.
HONORA HEALEY . I am in the service of Mr. Pullen. On 10th June last, Miss Pullen gave me a two shilling piece to go and get some beer—I went to a public-house, gave it to the barmaid, and she refused to take it—I did not lose sight of it at any time—I brought it back to Miss Pullen.
Prisoner. Q. Did you ever see me in the shop before? A. No; I do not serve in the shop.
JAMES PULLEN . On 14th June, I was in the parlour adjoining my shop—my daughter brought me a florin—I examined it and found it was bad—she said something to me—I went into the shop, having the coin in my hand—I there saw the prisoner, and asked her where she had got it from—she said she had got it hawking something about the streets—I asked her what she had been hawking, and she said, "A variety of articles"—upon that I said she had paid me several visits; one on the Monday previous, and I should give her in charge—a policeman was sent for, she was given in custody, and I gave him the two bad florins—the prisoner begged for mercy on account of her children.
florins that I received from the last witness—the prisoner was given into my custody, searched, and one good shilling found on her—she gave me an address which was false—I could not find out anything about her.
Prisoner. Have mercy on me for the sake of my poor children.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE PICKETT . My father and mother keep a chandler's shop in Vine-street, Westminster—I remember, at the end of May, seeing the prisoner come into the shop—my mother was there—he asked for a pennyworth of pudding—I saw my mother serve him—he gave her a bad shilling—after he was gone I saw her try it, and she found it was bad—he had got the change—my mother melted the shilling over the candle—on the Monday-week after that I was in the shop again when the prisoner came in and asked for a pennyworth of pudding; my mother served him, and he gave her in payment a bad shilling—she put it in her teeth and bent it, and sent me for a policeman.
SARAH PICKETT . On 10th June the prisoner came for some pudding, and gave me in payment a bad shilling—I bent it, and sent my boy for a policeman—he had been in the shop before, and had given me another bad shilling—my husband melted that one over the candle—I gave the last one to the policeman.
Prisoner's Defence. I got the shilling from a gentleman near the Houses of Parliament for fetching a cab. I was hungry, and went into the shop for a pennyworth of pudding, not knowing the shilling was bad.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JESSE RIDOLEY . I am a market salesman attending Covent Garden market. On Saturday, 1st June, I had a van there with gooseberries—toe prisoner came to the van, and asked the price of the gooseberries—I asked 6s. a strike for them—a strike is a basket full—he said he would give me 5s. 6d.—that I agreed to, and the gooseberries were put upon a barrow, and taken away by some one else—the prisoner paid me with two half-crowns and a shilling, and I gave him a sixpence back—directly the prisoner had gone I looked at the money, and found it was all bad—I then ran after my barrow, and got my gooseberries back—I did not see the prisoner, he was gone—on Thursday-week, the 13th, he paid me another visit, and asked about some lettuces—I knew him again—they were 7d. a score—he agreed to take three score, and he gave me nine pennyworth of half-pence and a bad shilling—I put the shilling in my teeth to see if it was bad, and when I did that he ran away—I gave chase, and a policeman caught him—I gave the policeman all the bad money.
Prisoner. I never gave him two half-crowns and a shilling.
COURT. Q. Are you sure he is the person? A. Yes; I am sure he is the party—I have seen him hundreds of times—I believe he had had dealings with me before—I took a good deal of bad money—I swear I took two half-crowns
and one shilling of him—this was 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning—we were net many minutes bargaining about the goosebarries—I knew him as soon as he came up for the lettuces.
MR. COOKE. Q. When the policeman brought him back did you hear him say that he was running after his basket? A. Yes; and I said in the presence of the policeman that it was not the first time he had been with me, and I would have him looked up—he made no reply to that.
EDWARD MARSH (Policeman, F 163). On the rooming of 13th June I stopped the prisoner as he was running away, and received a counterfeit shilling from the last witness, and also two half-crowns and another shilling (produced)—the prosecutor came up to roe when I had the, prisoner, and said, "I charge this man with passing a bad shilling; this is not the first time he has done it; 1 shall give him in charge"—the prisoner made no reply at all—he could hear what was said—he was quite close—half-a-crown, two sixpences, and two penny pieces, all good money, were found on him, and three market tickets.
Prisoner. Q. Did not the prosecutor say on the way to the station that on the first occasion another man gave it to him? A. No; he said that another man was with you who took the things away.
Prisoner's Defence. I never went to the man before, and I told him so when he gave me in charge, and the policeman denies it; there were two or three persons with me, but I do not know them, or I would have had them here, and they could prove) that what the witnesses say is false.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. COOKE and CRAWFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JANE WIGNELL . My father keeps a butcher's shop in Albany-street, Regent's Park—the prisoner came into his shop on 10th or 11th June—I was taking the money—I received a shilling from the prisoner for three pennyworth of cuttings, and gave him 9d. change—I held the shilling in my band, not thinking it was good, and the prisoner left—I gave the shilling to my mother—she found it was bad, chopped it in halt and threw it away—the prisoner came again on the following Tuesday, the 18th June—I knew him again—he bought two pounds of cuttings-my mother served him, and he gave her in payment a two-shilling piece—I was presents—she told the prisoner it was bad—he said, "I know it"—he was then told that he brought a bad shilling last week, and he said he had never been in the shop before—he offered half-a-crown to pay for the meat, which my mother refused—he was then given in custody—I am quite satisfied he is the same man.
PHEBE WIGNELL . My husband keeps a butcher's shop in Albany-street—early in June the prisoner came into our shop for some pieces—my daughter on that occasion showed roe 1s. before the prisoner bad got almost off the step—I rubbed the 1s. and found it was a bad one, and sent the man to look for the prisoner—I afterwards chopped it in two—on 18th June I saw the prisoner in the shop again; he then asked for some pieces of meat, and gave me a 2s. piece in payment—I found it was bad, and said to him, "This is some more of your bad money; I intend to lock you up for it"—he said, "I know it; here is a half-crown, take it out of that"—I said, "No, I shall not; I shall lock you up"—a policeman was sent for, and I gave him the bad florin.
Prisoner. Q. When you detected that the 2s. piece was bad, I think you said, "You are the party that was here with a bad shilling?"A. I said" You were here last week, and brought a bad shilling"—I did not say you paid it to our man—I did not say that the man served you with some meat.
MR. COOKE. Q. Had you known him before this? A. He had been a frequent customer in my shop.
HENRY GOODWIN (Policeman, S 78). On 18th June the prisoner was given in charge by Mrs. Wignell, with the florin—the prisoner gave me his address, 70, Friar-street, Blackfriars-road—I went there; he was not known at all—I stated that before the Magistrate at the second examination, and the prisoner said, u I gave a false address because my wife had been confined, and I thought I should get off it this time"—he said he lived in Brook-street, but I do not know what part—I searched him, and found a good half-crown, and 2d. in coppers on him—he said he had not been in the shop before.
Prisoner's Defence. My motive for giving a false address was that my wife had been confined with twin boys, and her old mother, upwards of eighty, came up to see her, and was at the house at the time. I have not been in that shop. I did not pass the florin there, whatever they may say. I changed half a sovereign the day before, and that is the only way I can account for it. It is not likely I should have acknowledged it to be bad if I meant wilfully to pass it. I said I did not know it was, I was very sorry it was.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. CRAWFORD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JOSEPH REYNOLDS . I am a stationer of St James-street. On 18th June the prisoner came to my shop, and asked for a packet of envelopes, which was 3d.—he tendered a counterfeit 5s. piece—I did not know that it was bad—I gave him the change, and placed it in the till—there was no other there—in the course of the day I emptied the contents of the till into my cash-box—there was only one crown in the cash-box—on 19th, about 10 o'clock in the morning, the prisoner came again, asked for half a quire of paper, price 3d., and gave me another bad 5s. piece—I gave him change, placed that piece in the till, and afterwards in the cash-box—there were no other crowns there then, except the one I had taken on the Tuesday—oil the next morning he came again for half a quire of paper, and gave me a half-crown—I gave him the change, and he went away—I had suspicions, and examined the pieces in the cash-box—my shop is rather dark—the two pieces were still in the cash-box, and I gave them to my servant to take to the tradespeople to see if they were really bad—she brought them back to me—I know they were the same I gave to her, because I had marked them all—I put them aside when she brought them back—on the 22d the prisoner came again, and asked for a packet of envelopes and half a quire of paper—I served him, and he gave me another bad crown—I did not give him change for that—I told him it was bad, and asked him where he got it, and where he came from—he said, "I got it opposite "I sent my servant there with him, but he could not find anything about him—the prisoner came back with my servant, and I went up to Vine-street and gave him in charge—he said, "Pray don't prosecute me;" and wanted to work it out—I said, "You are the same boy who had paid bad coin to me on each successive day"—I
produced the other coins, and placed them on the counter before him separate—he made no answer—I gave the money to the policeman.
JAMKS REEVES (Policeman, C 44). I took the prisoner in custody on 22d June, from the last witness—he gave me three crowns and one half-crown (produced)—the prisoner gave his address 3, Lumley-court, Strand—I went there, and found that his father and mother resided there, and they told me he resided there with them—nothing was found on him—he said nothing in answer to the charge.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. CRAWFORD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE ALLEN . I am barman at the Fox and French Horn, Clerkenwell—green. On 22d June, at a little after 10 at night, the prisoner came to the bar and asked for a screw of tobacco—he tendered a bad fourpenny piece—I saw it was bad, and told him so—he said, "I did not know it—he then left the house, saying he had no more money—he neither took the tobacco nor the fourpenny-piece—he went away, and I followed him into Exmouth-street, which is about four minutes' walk from our place—I saw him go into a small cigar-shop, and watched him through the window—he purchased a cigar, and put down a small coin; I went in as he was about to leave, and asked the woman belonging to the shop, what money he had given her—she said that he had given her a bad fourpenny piece, and she showed it me—the prisoner began saying the same that he had told me; that a gentleman had given it him for carrying a box—I did not give him the fourpenny piece back; this was another—I told him I should charge him with knowingly uttering counterfeit coin—I met a constable and gave him in charge with the fourpenny-piece.
EMILY GOODWIN . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop in Exmouth-street, near the Fox and French Horn. On 22d June, the prisoner came to my shop for a cigar—I served him, and he tendered me a bad fourpenny piece—I told him it was bad, and he said he did not know it—while the prisoner was there, the last witness came into the shop—he took the prisoner away—the constable came back with the prisoner—I gave the fourpenny piece to the policeman.
JOHN WHEALAN (Policeman, G 46). On 22d June, Allen gave the prisoner into my custody—I asked him where he got the money from, and he said a gentleman gave it to him for carrying a box—I searched him, but found nothing on him—I produce two fourpenny pieces, I got one from Mr. Allen, and the other from Mrs. Goodwin—he gave an address, but I could not find anything about him.
Prisoner's Defence. I got the two fourpenny pieces from a gentleman at London-bridge for carrying a box; I went into the cigar shop to buy a cigar, but did not know the money was bad; I was frightened when the gentleman came in and took me.
GUILTY .— Confined Eight Month.
MESSRS. CRAWFORD and LLOYD conducted the Prosecution.
at a quarter to 8 in the evening, the prisoners came to my surgery—Williams asked for a pennyworth of sal volatile—I asked for a bottle, and he said, "We will drink it here"—I gave it him and he drank it—the prisoner Stone then tendered me a 2s. piece in payment—I immediately tried it, and found it was bad—I went round, locked the door, and put the key in my pocket—as I turned round from locking the door, I saw Stone withdraw his hand from a shelf or small frame which is in my surgery—they both asked for change—I said, "I will send for a policeman, he will give you the proper change"—I then sent for a constable and gave him the bad florin—when they had been taken away, I looked behind this frame where Stone's hand went, and found five other florins in a paper parcel—I took them down to the station when I charged the prisoners, marked them all, and gave them to the same policeman who had the first piece.
Stone. Q. Was I not drunk? A. You assumed to be drunk; but when I told you the money was bad, you got sober—I swear you were not drunk.
JAMES MCWILLIAM (City-policeman, 224). I took the prisoners from Mr. Cox on 22d June, and he gave me a counterfeit florin at the same time, and he afterwards gave me five others at the station—I was obliged to get assistance to take the prisoners to the station—they were very violent and made great resistance—I searched Stone, and found on him a half-crown, a sixpence, and a halfpenny good money,—he refused his address—I took Stone, and another constable took Williams—I saw Williams during that time, he was kicking all the way to the station—several constables were there—another constable searched Williams.
Stone. Q. Was I violent to you at all? A. You kicked at me several times—you pretended to be drunk, but you were quite sober.
WILLIAM HARRAD (Policeman, G 201). On 22d June last, about 8 o'clock, I took Williams—I took him to Mr. Cox's, and searched him in the shop—I found on him 4s. in silver, and 3d. in copper, good money—he did not go quietly to the station—first of all he objected to being searched—we took him to the station with some difficulty—Briggs, another constable, came up to help—I asked Williams were he lived, and he said he had no residence.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . The florins produced are bad; of the five, there are three from the same mould as the one uttered, and the other two are from the same mould—four from one mould, and two from another.
Stone's Defence. I was not aware that it was bad; in fact I was so drunk at the time that I hardly know what did happen.
Williams'? Defence. I know nothing about it.
STONE— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
WILLIAMS— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
OLD COURT—Thursday July 11th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE MORRELL . I am a stoker, living at Albert-square, Shadwell—on Friday morning, 7th June, between 1 and 2 o'clock, I was walking along St. George's-street, Shad well, with a female named Mary Ann Franklin,
when the prisoner came up to me, took hold of me by the collar of the jacket, and used some very bad language, and said I was the G----d fellow he wanted to get hold of—I asked him what he meant, and he struck me in the face—I scuffled with him, got away from him, and went on the other side of the way, when he followed and shot me—I saw him fire a pistol—the shot struck me on the right shoulder—I have not suffered a great deal from the wound—it was a very slight wound—it was seen by a surgeon—I had never seen the prisoner before in my life—I gave no provocation—he was sober.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not come and ask me what I was doing, and I said I merely pushed against you? A. No; I never saw you till you came and laid hold of my collar—you did not appear drunk at all.
MARY ANN FRANKLIN . I live at 1, Albert-street, Shad well—on 7th June, I was walking with the last witness—I saw the prisoner come up to him, and catch hold of him by the coat—he said, "You are the d-d fellow I want"—Morrell asked him what he meant, and he said, "That is what I mean," and scuffled with him—I thought he was going to stab him—Morrell got away, and went across the road—the prisoner followed him over the road, took a pistol out of his breast pocket and shot at him—the prosecutor was sober—I never saw the prisoner before in my life.
ALFRED BROWN (Policeman, K 196). On 7th June, I was on duty in High-street, Shadwell, and heard a disturbance—I made up to the parties to separate them, when I saw the prisoner draw the pistol from his breast and deliberately fire at the prosecutor—he then ran away, and I followed him into some fields—I asked him for the pistol, and he said he had not got it—it was found afterwards close to the place where I apprehended him—he was present when it was brought to me—this is the pistol (produced), it is a five barrel revolver—the barrels were all loaded at the time with powder and shot, except the one that was discharged—that appeared to have been recently discharged—the prisoner did not appear to be intoxicated—there was no appearance at all of his having been drinking.
Prisoner's Defence. He interfered with me first; he struck me first, and I struck him back again.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Nine Months.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
AHN COLLIVER . I live now at 9, Featherstone-buildings, Holborn—at the time this matter occurred I was living in service at Colney Hatch—on 17th June my employer gave me a holiday, and I came to town—I met the prisoner Adams by King's-cross; I did not know him before; he came up and spoke to me, and asked if I would go and take a walk—I consented to do so—I do not recollect going with him to a public-house; not in the afternoon—I came to town about a quarter-past 10 in the morning; between that and 2 o'clock, when I met Adams, I had been walking about some time—I had a glass of ale as I came down from the train—I came up alone—the glass of ale had no effect upon me—I do not remember being is a public-house with Adams—he did not give me anything to drink that I know of while I was walking with him—I had only had one glass of ale that morning—I do not remember having anything with him—I had a silver brooch fastened to my dress—that was quite safe when I met Adams—the next time I knew anything was when I was in the police-station, for
being drunk and incapable of taking care of myself—I remember nothing between meeting Adams and being taken to the station—when I came to myself I found my brooch and many other things gone.
Adams. Q. Where was it I first met you? A. By King's-cross station—it was not in a public-house at the corner of Southampton-street—you were coming out of a public-house when I met you.
JOHN MOORE . I live at 15, Tonbridge-street, St. Pancras, and am a painter by business—on the afternoon of 17th June, about 6 o'clock, I was outside the Lord Wellington public-house in Brighton-street, against the door—whilst there I saw Adams come in with the prosecutrix—she appeared as if she had been having something to drink—I went to the door and saw them standing at the bar; they had some drink—Adams then came out leaving the girl there, and she followed him to the door—she returned back again, Adams did not—Batchelor was outside, and three other men; Adams took a brooch from the prosecutrix's breast, gave it to Batchelor immediately, and said, "Now I am off," and went away, and Batchelor also—that was not inside the public-house; it was outside the door—I saw it distinctly—I saw Adams undo the brooch—the girl then went back again; she was not quite insensible but nearly so—she was silly or foolish like, as if she was either silly or tipsy—Batchelor and the other three men went into the public-house to her almost instantly afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. How many persons were there in the public-house? A. None then at that side of the bar—I could easily see what passed; so could anybody—Adams deliberately handed the brooch to Batchelor—Adams did not go Away with Batchelor; he went one way and Batchelor the other—he turned towards his court—the prosecutrix returned in again—she had come to the door—Batchelor came back again almost instantly, in not more than two or three seconds; there were others standing at the other corner, they all went in together—I watched them for three quarters of an hour, and followed them.
Adams. Q. What time was it when you say you saw me at the Wellington? A. I should think it was near 6, I cannot tell exactly; I had just come from work.
GEORGE BALL (Policeman, E 64). I took Adams into custody on the 19th—I told him he was charged with robbing a servant girl of the name of Ann Colliver, from Colney Hatch—he said he went about with her all day long, and spent 5s. 6d.; that he took her into several coffee-shops, but he did not rob her at all.
ANDREW TIMBRELL . My father keeps the Wellington public-house—on the evening of 17th June I saw the prosecutrix at the bar with Adams—they were there for about half an hour—Adams went out and did not return—the prosecutrix appeared rather stupid—she did not seem to know what she was about.
ANN JEMIMA TIMBRELL . I am the daughter of Mr. Timbrell, who keeps the Wellington—I remember the prosecutrix being at our house on the evening of 17th June, also Adams and the others—the prosecutrix had been drinking—she did not appear to know what she was about—I saw Adams and her drinking together.
Adams. Q. When I was bidding her good-bye did she go out of the public-house with me? A. No; she only went to the door—there were no other men with you.
Cross-examined. Q. How long was she in the public-house? A. About half an hour—I recollect Adams leaving—I do not recollect Batchelor at all
—I saw a great number of persons with her after Adams had left—I do not think Batchelor was one of those who returned into the place—I did not notice when she came in whether she had a brooch; she had a parasol—I cannot say that she had not a brooch in her shawl when she came in the second time.
HENRY HATES . I live with my father at 14, Tonbridge-street—on Monday 17th, about a quarter to 8 in the evening, I was at the corner of Argyle-place—I saw the prisoner Batchelor in the street; he had some money in his hand and a purse, and he gave some money to a lame man.
Cross-examined. Q. The lame man was not Adams? A. No.
GEORGE BALL (re-examined). I saw the prosecutrix on the night of the 17th—I live at the station, and was there when she was brought in—she was in a filthy state; she smelt as if she had been made water over, and she was one mass of mess from top to bottom, just as if she had been drugged—she was in a regular silly state; there was not the slightest sense about her then, nor was there next morning; indeed, she did not recover her senses for two days afterwards—there is no doubt she had been dreadfully drugged—she is rather short—she has not exactly got her right senses about her.
The prisoner Adams put in a written defence, stating that he met the prosecutrix at a public-house and remained in her company for some time, but left her at the Wellington, and knew nothing of the robbery.
ADAMS— GUILTY .
BATCHELOR— NOT GUILTY .
602. ROBERT HAWKINS (21), was again indicted with JOHN FLAHERTY (18), and GEORGE BATCHELOR (18) , Stealing a parasol, a pair of cuffs, and other articles, value 5s. the property of Ann Colliver. (See page 294).
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
ANN COLLIVER . (This witness's evidence, as given in the former case, was read over to her). That is correct—when I became conscious at the police station I missed the things stated—I had them quite safe when I met Adams.
Hawkins Q. Did you see me take anything away from you? A. No.
Flaherty. Q. Did I have anything to do with you? A. No; I do not remember anything at all about you.
JOHN MOORE . On the afternoon in question, I was standing in the road near the door of the Wellington public-house, and saw the prosecutrix and all the three prisoners—I saw Adams, but he went away and I saw no more of him till he was taken—after he went away the three prisoners came into the public-house, and one or two more followed immediately afterwards—they were drinking there—Batchelor took a leather purse either out of her hand or off the counter, I think it was out of her hand; he took, out some silver, I can't say how much, and returned the empty purse to her, saying, there was only a ticket and a halfpenny in it—she asked for the purse—the other prisoners were there at the time, and they all left after that—I thought I afterwards saw that same purse in the hands of Batchelor, but I am not quite positive of that—they all went out of the public-house together, and went up a passage—there was a lame man with them called Hoppy Doyle; he was in the public-house all the time—Hawkins took up the prosecutrix's parasol from the counter, and I think Miss Timbrell told him to put it down, it did not belong to him—he put it down directly—I had seen the prosecutrix with that parasol when she was along with Adams, and she was all right then—when she went out of the house she was accompanied by the lame man and the three prisoners—she then appeared to be drunk—she was between two of them as she came out; Flaherty was
one, and I think the lame man was the other, but I would not be quite positive—I was obliged to keep a little way from them because they are a dangerous lot—I followed to see what became of her, knowing the consequences—I followed them to another beer shop at the corner of Hastings, street, looking all the time each way to see if I could meet a constable to inform him—in going from the one house to the other, Hawkins wag carrying the parasol; he took it from her again outside the door and carried it under his arm—they stayed a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes in the beer shop—I remained outside at the further corner—before they came out, Hawkins put the parasol down his trousers and buttoned his coat over it, and then he and the lame man assisted her, and Flaherty and Batchelor followed—while they were in the beer-shop a female with red hair came and called Hawkins and gave him a bottle, it was a very short thick-necked bottle, not like a phial, it was very short and stumpy, more like a pomatum pot in shape—I could not see the contents of the bottle—Hawkins put his cap between his knees, put his hand on the top of the bottle and wiped it on his head, but I saw nothing wet; he then took a comb out, and appeared to be combing his hair, he looked about and I drew further back fearing I should be seen—he then went to where the men were having some beer, and moved his arm as if he was putting something into it, and then handed it to the female to drink, and the rest, all she did not drink, they threw out of the pot into the road—Batchelor and Flaherty were outside the house at this time, the lame man was inside—the girl then drank out of the quart pot, and then slipped back quite helpless into the street; they threw the remainder of the beer into the street, and had a fresh pint for themselves—she was so helpless that Hawkins and the lame man had to lead her, with her legs or feet dragging upon the ground—they took her down to the middle of the first court—Flaherty said, "It is all right, come on," and in the court Flaherty took off her cloak and gave it to another female, and then the four went into a room with her, the three prisoners and the lame man, and the blinds were drawn down—there were screams of murder, and I went for the police immediately—I went to the police station direct when I heard her call murder—this purse (produced) is very similar to the one I saw.
Gross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. What are you? A. A painter and general contractor—I had just left my work and was going home—it was about 6 o'clock.
Hawkins. Q. Do you say' you saw me in the public-house? A. Yes; I don't know what you had in the bottle, you told the Magistrate it was hair oil.
Flaherty. Q. Who pulled the blind down? A. I do not know—I saw it pulled down.
Flaherty. There is no blind to the window. Witness. It might be a cloth—you led the way into the room.
ANDREW TIMBRELL . I saw Hawkins at the bar of my father's public-house at the time the prosecutrix was there—I did not see any of the other prisoner—I saw Hawkins take a purse out of the prosecutrix's hand, and he said, "There is only a halfpenny and a ticket in it," and he gave it to her back—I was behind the bar—I served Adams with beer—I have seen the prisoners about before this.
ANN JEMIMA TIMBRELL . At the time the prosecutrix was in our house, I saw Hawkins and Flaherty there, and others who I do not remember—Hawkins took a parasol off the counter—I told him to put it down—I saw him with the purse in his hand, and I heard him say there was a ticket and a halfpenny in it—he returned it to her.
Flaherty. Q. Did I drink with Hawkins? A. No; you did not have anything—I would not serve you—I did not see you touch any of her property.
HENRY HAYES . I live in Tonbridge-street—at a quarter to eight on this night, I was at the corner of Argyll-place—I saw Batchelor there and another man, a lame man—Batchelor had some money and a purse very much like this—he gave some money to the lame man; he grumbled, and Batchelor then gave him some more, and they both went away together; this was about a minute's walk from the Wellington.
Cross-examined. Q. Can you tell me the words that were used? A. No; it was something like there not being enough.
LOUISA SIMPSON (examined by Flaherty). I did not see you in the room in the court—I saw two in there—there are no blinds there—there is a short curtain—anybody passing down the passage could see anything that was going on in the room.
COURT. Q. Where were you? A. Sitting in a back room when I heard the screams of the female—I went in after hearing the screams—the room was Flaherty's room.
JOHN TOWSE (Policeman, S 185). I took Hawkins into custody the day after this occurrence—I told him he was charged with robbing a female that had come from Colney Hatch—he said he knew nothing of it, he had not seen any female to speak to her that day—I took Flaherty at 5 next morning, at a house in North-place, in bed—I told him he was charged with others with being concerned in robbing a woman from Colney Hatch—he said, "I am very sorry that I had anything to do with it."
Flaherty. It is false. I said I did not know anything of it.
GEORGE BALL (Policeman, E 64). I was with Towse when Flaherty was taken—he told him he was taken for a robbery, and he dare say he was concerned in the rape—he said he was very sorry indeed that he had anything to do with it at all.
Hawkins's Defence. I am innocent. They are all false swearing against me, as they did yesterday in the rape case. I had nothing to do with it. I had just come from Kingsland.
Flahertys Defence. I have never been in trouble before. I have worked for the Imperial Gas Works two years, and my father has worked there for twenty-eight years. I know nothing about this case, only living there.
Hawkins and Batchelor were further charged with having been before convicted.
JOHN COOKE (Policeman, P 198). I produce a certificate—(Read: "John Rogers, convicted July, 1860, at Aylesbury, of larceny—Confined Four Months")—Hawkins is the person there mentioned—I was present at the trial.
GEORGE HULL (Portsmouth Dockyard Police, 122). I produce a certificate—(Read: "George Batchelor, convicted at Marlborough-street Police-court of larceny—Confined Three Months.")—I was present at that conviction—Batchelor is the person.
HAWKINS—GUILTY.— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
BATCHELOR—GUILTY.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
FLAHERTY—GUILTY>.— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
THE COURT ordered a reward of 40s. to the witness John Moore.
LEINKE PLEADED GUILTY .
MR. LEWIS, for the prosecution, offered no evidence against
WILSERN.— NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, July 11th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. GABRIEL and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
FELIX AUGUST SCHREIBER . (Through an interpreter). I reside at Clapham, and am a merchant's clerk. About 11 o'clock, on 2d July, I was walking near the Bank—the prisoner came very close to me, and asked me where I was going—I replied that I wished to go home—she then asked me if she could go with me—I replied, "I do not believe they will allow a young lady in the hotel I am stopping at—she then asked me if I would not go with her—I said, "No; I am going home"—she then asked me if I would give her something to drink—I replied, "I have had sufficient to drink to-day"—during that time she managed to get me up a small turning—she made some other observation' to me which I do not like to express—she then asked me how much. I would give her: I did not make any reply—she wished me to take liberties with her, which I refused—I then felt something at my waistcoat pocket—I immediately felt, and missed my watch—I had seen it there a couple of minutes previously, I bad it in my hand to see what time it was—as soon as I missed it I caught the prisoner by the arm, and accused her of robbing me of my watch—she said, "Silly man, I have not got your watch"—I said, "You have"—a young man then came towards us, and begged of me to let go of her—he wanted to push himself between us—he said, "What is the matter?"—I said, "This girl has robbed me of my watch"—he said, "That cannot be possible"—I said that it was the case—the man said, "If that is true I will go and fetch a policeman"—I then distinctly saw the prisoner hand over something to him, and he ran off—the prisoner then begged of me and tried all her exertions to get out of my grasp—I dragged her into the open street, and gave her in charge.
Cross-examined by MR. ATKINSON. Q. You speak English, do you not? A. Yes; a little—I spoke to this person in English, under the gateway—this was the first day I was in London—I did not drink too much—I had had something to drink—I would not have gone with her up a dark turning only she pushed me in—we were very close to the turning—I could not begin to box with her—she got me about ten or fifteen paces up the turning—she was always before me, trying to catch hold of me, but I avoided her—two other females before that had asked me where I was going—I said, "I go home," and left them—that was about 100 or 200 paces from this turning, just by the Bank—I took my watch out in my hand just before
this turning, because I did not know the time—that was after I had spoken to those other two—I was up the entry with this woman between five and ten minutes, but part of that time I had hold of her—I will swear I was not up there twenty minutes.
MR. COOPER. Q. What is the value of the watch? A. Between 6l. and 10l.
JOSEPH WELLS (City-policeman, 142). About a quarter before 11 o'clock, on 2d July, I was on duty in Moorgate-street—I was turning into Telegraph-street when I was called—I found the prisoner in the prosecutor'scustody—he delivered her over to me—she was searched, and one penny found on her—she gave me an address, which I went to.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you speak a foreign language? A. No; the prosecutor and myself managed to understand one another partly—the prisoner is not a foreigner that I am aware of—she spoke to me in pretty good English.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD JONES HUMPHREYS . I was a porter in the service of Messrs. Henry Waithman and another, of Gresham-street—they have a warehouse on the ground floor and on the basement—on Saturday afternoon, 8th June, I left about 3 o'clock, and locked the outer door—there are safes in the lower warehouse, where property is kept—I then went to Alderman's-walk, Bishopsgate, and purchased a book—I then went back to the office to get an envelope to send it in—I found the key go very stiff, and had to kick the door to make it open—there was a kind of stiffness in the lock which was not there before—on opening the outer door I observed a parcel lying on a hale of goods in the counting-house leading to the warehouse—I thought it was not there when I went out, and unfastened the side of it—it was what I supposed to be the tops of new boots—I knew it did not belong to anybody in our place—it was afterwards found to contain some large black sheets of oil-cloth, three leather straps, and some string—I heard footsteps, and retired backwards till I came in view of the private room, and there were the two prisoners in a stooping position—I walked up to them, and asked what business they had there; they said, "We saw the door open, and we walked in"—I said, "Then you had better stop in, for I shall lock the door"—I retired backwards towards the inner door, and on opening it, Williams led the way down to the basement warehouse—I thought he had been there before, seeing the way he went down; so I went and gave the alarm, fearing that the area door had been opened, to secure the front—I got assistance, returned to the office, and saw them come up from below, finding that they could not escape—I then walked round to the inner room and turned the key.
COURT. Q. What did they do coming from the basement? A. They rushed to the private door—there was a key inside that door; they turned that to open the door, and escaped into the passage, when I secured them both; but McGuire got away from me, and Chaplin and Homes man being in the passage I told him to secure him—they were afterwards given into the custody of the police, who came up—I was present when the policeman discovered the keys and the parcel—I am sure they are the two men.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you leave anybody behind you
when you left? A. No; I locked the outer door leading when I left, the door to the passage—an iron gate leads into the area in Old Broad-street—the door leading to Old Broad-street was left open—no one could get into the office that way—that is the door into the corridor; it is a free passage; hundreds go through that way—they cannot get access into the premises that way unless they have keys—the door I locked is the only door into the premises—the windows were closed—I did not close them—there are bars before them inside, and the shutters are iron-bound; nobody could get in—I do not know whether the other clerks have a key to the place—there are six clerks; one of them is here—I was away about half an hour—I will swear it was not an hour.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you know either of the prisoners before? A. No—I secured them in the corridor, eighteen or twenty yards from where you go out into the street; but McGuire escaped from me, and was retaken in the corridor—he did not run into the street—the corridor is in Gresham-house; it is a public thoroughfare, where people pass and repass up to 6 o'clock in the evening—Chaplin and Home's man was passing through the corridor, and other people too—I happened to know him, and therefore called him to my assistance—he was taken two or three yards from the doorway—I do not know whether there were other people pursuing—I sang out, "Secure the thieves"—I believe a crowd collected outside in the street.
MR. COOPER. Q. How long had you McGuire in custody? A. About a minute—I saw his face, and never lost sight of him till he was seized by Chaplin and Home's man.
COURT. Q. Tell me the situation of Waithman's. A. There is an outer door that is locked in the evening at 6 or 7 o'clock, that leads into a small passage which leads into Waithman's office—it is in Broad-street, on the right-hand side coming down from the Royal Exchange—the entrance is in Gresham-house, the first passage to the right—there is no other entrance—the corridor is the centre passage of Gresham-house, which leads from Bishopsgate-street to Old Broad-street—the entrance door of the office is in that corridor, in the passage to the right—by the outer door I mean the entrance to the office; the inner door is a glass door close to the outer door; in fact, there are double doors to the premises, inner and outer—there is another-door leading to the area, but you cannot enter it from the outside—the area is in front of Old Broad-street, on the basement—the private door leads to Mr. Waithman's private room, into which they went to secrete themselves when they heard the noise—they rushed to the private door, which was locked, turned the key, opened it, and went in—the private door differs from the outer door; one is inside and the other outside; it leads to the passage, and the passage leads to the corridor—it opens into the passage from the inside—when I left I locked the outer door—I did not lock the inner glass door; there is no lock to it—I locked the private door imme-diately before I left; I turned the handle—it could not be left open, because it closes with a spring.
FREDERICK PETER ALLISON . I have been confidential clerk for fifteen years to Messrs. Waithman—I know the premises well—there is a corridor which leads from Broad-street right through to Bishopsgate-street—there is one entrance to the premises from Broad-street—there is another door on the right-hand side, which leads to offices up stairs and areas on the ground floor—if you come out of the street, there is a door on the right hand side; then go in there, and there is a small hall or warehouse with two doors to it, one
right and one left—that on the right leads to the counting-house, and the left into Mr. Waithman's private room—the left hand door is secured by a key, which is left inside, and the right hand door leads into the warehouse—I have counterpart keys of the two doors, the one which locks inside and the one which locks outside—when the porter went away the outer door would be open if the parties up stairs had not gone—whenever the porter goes away it is his duty to secure the outer door into the warehouse—these chambers are kept by different merchants, and we have rooms there—there would be two doors to open when the porter came in in the morning; the outer door which secured our premises, and the premises up stairs—if our men came first they would open that door—the porter has the key of the warehouse door—I have also a key of that door; no other clerk has—the keys are left at my private residence, and have been there ever since I first put them there—I have counterpart keys of all the doors, the safe doors and all—I left the offices that day before the porter—I left about half-past 2—some of the other clerks had left then.
COURT. Q. Is the porter the last witness? A. Yes; and it is his duty to lock up the door when he leaves—we have another porter and they take turns—it was his turn that day—no one has the key of this outer door, save the porter and myself.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How many other clerks are there? A. There are six of us altogether—to the best of my recollection there were two there when I left—one was, I believe, the junior clerk, and I believe there was another one—I cannot Bay for certain that there were two—they are not here—they have not keys of any of these doors to my knowledge—I cannot say whether they might have them without my know-ledge; I should say decidedly not, without they forged them—I generally leave before the porter—there is an area door from the street, which leads to the basement, for taking in goods and so forth—anybody getting in by that door could get up to the private offices; but that door is barred and locked on the inside, and well secured.
MR. COOPER, Q. Could any one get through that door into the premises? A. Not unless they broke through that door.
E. J. HUMPHREYS (re-examined). On this day the lower door was barred with two screws and bars inside—that is the basement door—I saw it on that day before I left—I found it perfectly secure when I went.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you mean that you went especially to examine it? A. We look over the place every day—I am obliged on leaving to go to that area door and see if it is bolted—I did so on this day—I swear that—I must go down to the warehouse to turn off the gas at the main, and I have to bar the door afterwards—I opened the door from the inside to turn out the gas and then shut and barred it—that was about twenty minutes before I left.
MR. LLOYD. Q. You examined it afterwards with the police? A. I did, and it was still barred.
ALFRED RINGE . I am a carman to Messrs. Chaplin and Horne, and live at 8, Newton-place, Camden-town—I was passing Old Broad-street about a quarter to 4 o'clock—I saw Humphreys before I was called to by him—I followed him into what I call Gresham-passage—he turned into the first door on the right hand side, which leads into their premises, and I was close behind him when he was tackled by the two prisoners just coming out of the warehouse door—one got away from him and passed me into Gresham-passage about two yards—he slewed himself round and looked at his partner in Humphreys' custody—Humphreys said, "That is the man, take
charge of him," which I did—I am sure he was the man who had been pre-viously tackled by Humphreys—I held him till the police came and took him.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Are there two area doors? A. There is a gate and a door; iron gates—I saw him at the entrance and followed him along the corridor up to the first door on the right—I saw him outside with these two—he was trying to hold them—the door of Gresham House was open—the men were inside there—they were coming out of the ware-house—they were about two yards from the door—I went to Jones' assistance, and he said, "That is the other man"—his name is Jones Humphreys—both he and the prisoner slewed themselves round—I was standing at the first door of Gresham-passage—he did not run, he walked—I did not follow him—I stood there and let him go about two yards—I stood looking at Jones and the other prisoner, but not half a second, as Jones sleued himself round and said, "That is the other one, take charge of him;" and I did so—he did not run away, he was looking at his partner being taken—he allowed me to come up quietly and take him—that was two or three yards to the left of the door—there were quantities of people passing—it is a great thoroughfare, particularly about half-past 3—McGuire stood among the people looking at the scuffle between Jones and the other prisoner—there were fifteen or twenty people.
MR. COOPER. Q. Do you see McGuire here? A. Yes; I am sure that he is one of the men who was tussling with Humphreys—and the man whom I afterwards took was the same man.
WILLIAM WALLER (City-policeman, 121). On Saturday afternoon, 8th July, a little before 4 o'clock, I saw a number of people opposite Gresham House—I ran over and was called on by Humphreys to take the prisoners, who were right opposite Gresham House—I took Williams and requested Collison and Humphreys to bring the other—he refused his address.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was Williams in custody when you came up? A. Yes; he was secured by Humphreys—and McGuire by Chaplain and Home's man.
JAMES HARRISON GROVER (City-policeman, 138). I was called to Gresham House, and found the prisoners in custody—I went down to the warehouse with Humphreys—I looked about but found nothing in the warehouse—I went through the counting-house into the private rooms, and found there four skeleton keys behind the door—the inspector tried them to the lock.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You talk of going up from the ware-house to the counting house? A. Yes; the warehouse is in the basement under the counting house—there is only a staircase entrance to the basement—it leads up into the counting-house—you must go through the counting-house to get to the warehouse—there is an iron gate in the basement which leads to the area and to the basement door; you cannot get from the basement door into the warehouse if the door is locked—there certainly is an entrance to the basement, when you go down stairs into the warehouse from the counting-house—the door outside which was locked, is in Broad-street—you cannot get there unless the area gate is open—I am quite sure there is no other door to the warehouse, except that in the basement—I do not know how many windows here are.
WILLIAM MACKRELL . I live at 3, Isabella-street, Waterloo-road, and am in the employ of Mr. Cubitt of Gray's Inn-road—on 8th July, I was at work in old Broad-street—I left off a little before 4 o'clock, and picked up a key on the pavement in Broad-street, just opposite Gresham-house—I saw Williams in custody at that moment, two or three feet from me—I gave the key to Dawes.
EDWARD KNIGHT (City Police-inspector.) I went to Messrs. Waithman's warehouse, and saw the prisoners in custody—I received a skeleton-key from Waller, and also these other four skeleton-keys—this is scarcely to be called a skeleton-key, but it is not an ordinary key—the wards have been removed—I fitted it to the warehouse-door—it locked and unlocked it—I tried the other keys to the safes and they fitted them—on the box of the lock of the door, leading to the counting-house, there was a piece of composition, and there was a very small portion of the same composition on the key picked up by Mackrell.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. This is a new piece of evidence, is it not? A. Not of the composition being found on the box of the look, but about it being found on the key is new—I did not say so before, because the question was not put—it has worked off the key now—it was a very small piece, smaller than the head of a small pin.
The prisoners received good characters.
GUILTY .—MR. COOPER stated that the prosecutors had lost 470l. worth of silk, and that it was supposed the robbery had been going on for some time as the lock had been stiff for a week.— Confined Two Years each.
MR. ATKINSON conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH NORRIS . I am the wife of George Norris—on 13th June, about 9 o'clock in the evening, I had come up from Somersetshire, and got into an omnibus at the Great Western Railway Station—I had my little girl with me, and various parcels and flannels—I went to the further end of the omnibus, on the right hand side—my little girl Bat next to me on my left—my left hand was nearest to the door—a Mrs. Harding, a lady from Sydenham, came in—she came to the extreme end, and placed her bonnet-box on my parcels—the prisoner then came in—Taylor sat next to Mrs. Harding and opposite me—Easthope sat next to my little girl—the omnibus stopped at the Bank, and I took my purse from my pocket, took out a half-crown, and found I had only one small silver coin, either a 3d., a 4d., or a 6d., and 3l. in gold, two sovereigns, and two half-sovereigns, to the best of my knowledge—I replaced my purse in my pocket in my dress—Taylor then said to Easthope, "We will get out here, dear"—Easthope immediately got out, and Taylor pushed herself very violently against me—I remonstrated with her—I had a parcel in each hand, which rendered me powerless with respect to my pocket—I felt a distinct tug at my pocket—I said, "Don't push against me in that way, there is plenty of time"—it was as though a person was abstracting something—she passed out, and I immediately found I had been robbed—my purse was gone—I said some-thing to the conductor—the omnibus was stopped and I got out—the prisoners had then got across the road to the Mansion-house, and were together in conversation—I caught hold of them and said, "You have robbed me of my purse"—I think they both said that it was a mistake—two con-stables came up, and I gave them in charge—there was also in my purse, a 1s. stamp, a 2d. one, and a 1d. one.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. How many people were in the omnibus
at the time you felt the tug? A. Only one other, a young man who was sitting at the door—he could not possibly have done it—when I took my purse out, ray handkerchief was there, and when I put it in again, I put it carefully to the bottom of my pocket with the other things.
GEORGE ADAMS . I am one of the conductors of the General Omnibus Company—I remember taking up the prosecutrix and the two prisoners at the Great Western Railway—when we got to the Bank the prosecutrix told me she had lost her purse—I saw the prisoners get out—Taylor paid me a shilling for both—I saw the constable look through the omnibus, and I made an active search for a purse but could not find it—there was a young man at the door—he had sat there the whole time—I had seen the prisoners before the train came in, walking on the platform together.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Is the young man here? A. No.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. I suppose there were a great many people on the platform, walking up and down? A. Yes.
FREDERICK WILLIAMS (City-policeman, 447). On 13th June, about 10 o'clock n the evening, I saw the prosecutrix at the Mansion-house, standing on the pavement holding the prisoners, one in each hand—I took Taylor, and Martin took Easthope—Taylor rather resisted—in going to the station, she said the lady in black had made a mistake—the inspector asked Taylor her name and address at the station—she said she would not give it till the lady arrived—she voluntarily gave the inspector her purse, and then gave her address—the inspector asked her what the purse contained—she said, "There is 1l. in one compartment, and some silver"—the inspector told her to be quite sure and mind what she said; and then she said, "There is 1l. 10s. in one compartment, a sovereign and a half-sovereign in gold, some small silver in another compartment, and some postage stamps"—the purse was examined in my presence, and this list, which I made the same evening, is what it con-tained: a sovereign, a half-sovereign, and 6s. in the first compartment; in the second compartment a half-crown, two sixpences, and a threepenny piece; in the third compartment a sovereign and two half-sovereigns, a pencil-case, and some postage stamps—Easthorpe gave up 8s. 3d., 7 1/2 d. in copper, a pair of spectacles, and a knife—she gave her address—Taylor said that she had come from Ascot races—the conductor who was there said that there were no trains from there to Ascot, and that he did not believe she had come from Ascot—she said she had come direct from Ascot by the train—I asked Taylor whether she knew Easthope—she said, "Most preposterous!" or "Monstrous!" I do not know which it was—I said, "Do you really mean to say you do not know her?"she said, "No."
MR. KEMP. Q. Did Taylor's address prove right? A. Yes—the inspector found a good many postage stamps.
JURY to ELIZABETH NORRIS. Q. Did the young man get out of the omnibus or did he remain? A. He remained in the omnibus—I missed my purse before I reached him.
THOMAS MAVETY (Policeman, N 43), stated that the prisoners were associate, and got their living by thieving; and John Burton, an omnibus conductor, stated that on 4th September, a woman was robbed in his omnibus, in which Easthope was travelling.
Confined Twelve Months each.
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, July 11th, 1861.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CHALLIS and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. LEWIS for the prosecution offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
HARRIET CARTER . I reside at 2, Creed-lane, Ludgate-street, and am the wife of William Carter, a timekeeper—I was in Fleet-street on 20th June, about twenty minutes to 4 o'clock, with my husband's mother—she was just on ahead—I had my purse in my left hand—I took it from my left, put it into my right, and put it into my pocket—I had my hand in my pocket, with the purse in my hand, and still had it so, when the prisoner was by my side, and his hand came into contact with mine in my pocket—I caught hold of his wrist and asked him for my purse, which I missed at that instant—he said he had not got it; and he gave my hand a tug in this manner, and my hand went back—I turned and looked, and saw another one about his own size, take something from the prisoner—I had his wrist, and my hand went with his hand, and when I turned behind, there was another young man about his own size behind me that received my purse—I was holding the prisoner's right hand, the same hand that took something from my pocket—the young man came up to the hand I was holding, and appeared to take something from that hand—I got hold of that man directly, and held him a minute or so, but he got away—he had a parcel under his arm—I retained the prisoner—I have not got my purse—there was no other person by my side at first when the prisoner was there—I kept him till the officer came up, and gave him into custody.
Prisoner. When the woman came up she said, "You have got my purse;" I said, "No, I have not." Witness. Yes, you said, "No, I have not."
EDWIN HILLS (City-policeman, 90). On the afternoon of 20th June, I took the prisoner into custody in Fleet-street from the prosecutrix, who had hold of him—I took him to the station-house, searched him, but found nothing on him—he gave me an address—I went there but he was not known there—I do not remember the prisoner saying anything at the close of the examination of Harriet Carter.
HARRIET CARTER (re-examined). I think after I had finished my evidence before the Magistrate, the prisoner was asked whether he wished to ask any question of me—he pleaded guilty—he said, "When I come out I am sure to get into trouble; I am the most unluckiest fellow in the world"—when he was asked, he said, "Guilty."
Q. Was he asked if he would ask you any questions, and did he then say anything about pleading guilty? A. I thought he said so before.
EDWIN HILLS (re-examined). I was present when Mrs. Carter was examined—at the end of her examination the prisoner was asked whether he wished to put any question to her—he did not put any question—he afterwards said he would plead guilty.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
THOMAS SMART (Policeman). I produce a certificate (Read: "Guildhall Justice Room, 11th February, 1860.—Frederick Davis, summarily convicted of stealing a watch from Walter Wilson.—Confined Six Months."
GUILTY.**— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MR. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES SHARPE (Policeman; K 381). I am stationed at West Ham, in Essex—I was on duty yesterday morning at half-past 1 o'clock in North Woolwich-road, and heard a disturbance in Nelson-street—James Wayland, No. 103, was with me—on getting to Nelson-street, the prisoner was making a noise and using abusive language—I requested him to go away several times, and he refused—Evans came out and I told him to get him away—I got him to the top of the street—he came round and said, "You b----take that," and whipped a knife into my head just above the left eye, and sad, "Now I have done for you at last"—I did not see the knife till it was picked up—I called out, "Oh, my God, I am stabbed! "he was close by and threw himself down, saying that I was done for at last—he was taken in custody by the other two policemen—I bled most fearfully and went to Dr. Muggleston, who dressed my wound—the prisoner was sober, but had been drinking a little—he was very noisy and used very bad language.
Prisoner. I deny the last statement. Nelson-street is my home, No. 7; I had been out and went to see if I could get in to get my things; I was excited by not getting in, and kicked up a piece of work, but there was not a soul in the street. When I got to the top of the street, two policemen knocked me down, and I have got seven wounds. I do not say that I did not strike with the knife; in the excitement I do not know what I did. My wife died, and I sold a room full of goods, and that person was my housekeeper; she got many of the police to knock me about and I had my ribs broken, and when I was laid up they stole my goods.
COURT. Q. Had there been a disturbance before with the police? A. Yes; eighteen months ago he had been living with a woman—he had been making a disturbance, and I got his clothes for him—I did not see any policeman knock him about on this night—no policeman struck him before I was stabbed—he was outside a door in Nelson-street, calling the people b----s, and everything that was dreadful.
Prisoner. I was not disturbing anybody. As soon as I got to the top, the policeman said, "I will soon see you out of here," and he kicked me and knocked me down; as soon as I got up he gave me another, and in the scuffle I might do this to him; I will say the truth. Witness. I did not do it—I had hold of him by the collar, and said, "I do not want you to go to the station if you will be quiet—I had not got three yards before he said, "You b----, take that," and stabbed me.
JOHN WAYLAND (Policeman, K 103). I was on duty on the next beat, Victoria-dock-road, and heard a noise in Nelson-street—I went there with Sharpe, and saw the prisoner there using abusive language in front of the door—I spoke to him as well as Sharpe, and several inhabitants came out and requested us to remove him—Sharpe attempted to remove him gently, when he turned round and struck Sharpe, who called out that he was stabbed—I took the prisoner, and he fell down—I raised him up, and in the act of raising him he endeavoured to bite my hand, but I saved myself and took him in custody—he was very violent on the way.
Prisoner. I know nothing about that policeman, only that he came up afterwards and beat me with his staff. Witness. I did not—some labouring
men came out of their houses and said that they could not rest for the disturbance, and begged that he might be removed—I am sure I did not strike him, but he fell down twice, and Sharpe did not strike him.
Prisoner. They kicked me along; I have marks of it; he took the truncheon and beat me like this, as if he was beating a haystack. Witness. It is not true—I never used a truncheon, nor saw Sharpe use one—nothing was done but catching hold of him—I had hold of him by the hand all the way to the station.
JOHN WARD (Policeman, K 248). I was on duty yesterday morning, at North Woolwich road, with Gay another constable—I heard a disturbance a little distance off, went to the place, and saw the prisoner lying on the ground—just as I came up he threw himself down, and Sharpe halloed out that he was stabbed—I ran up as quick as I could, and assisted in taking him into custody, and by doing so, I got a wound on my hand, either a kick or a blow—I cannot say whether it was the prisoner who did it—there was another man there, but he was a little distance away—I went a little way with him till we met a constable—I then turned back to look for the instrument, and close to where the disturbance took place, I picked up this knife with a little blood on the hilt of it—I did not strike the prisoner.
JAMES WILLIAM MUGGLESTON . I am a surgeon of Maryland-point, Stratford—about a quarter past 3 o'clock yesterday morning, Sharpe came to my house—I found a wound on his forehead, above the inner angle of the left eye, rather more than an inch long—all injuries to the forehead are not so severe, unless erysipelas supervenes; but being a clean out, there is less likelihood of that—an inch in a different direction would have sent it into the eye. and into the brain if struck with any force—it seemed to be struck with force—this knife would be likely to produce a wound of that kind.
Prisoner. Q. I had a needle in my cap? A. I should not he to say whether it was done by a knife or a needle—the needle was nearly as wide as this. (The witness here made an examination of the prisoner, and stated as follows:)—There is a contused wound on the back of his head, which is recent—it might have been done by a blunt instrument, such as a truncheon, or by falling on the ground—he has several small recent bruises about his shoulders and elbows—a blunt instrument would produce them—he does not look as if he had been severely beaten—he looks as if he had had several blows with some instrument, or fallen on some hard substance—if he had been belaboured with truncheons, I think he would look worse than that, because it would have been more diffused over the body, and there would be echymosed spots under the cuticle—that is what I call a bruise—the elbows may strike the ground when a man falls—there are bruises on the blade bones—the small of the back is not bruised, nothing that would be curved—they are on the prominent parts of the body.
Prisoner's Defence. I have no witnesses, as there was only one in the street at the time; I do not recollect seeing Sharpe, but when I saw his head cut, Ldo not deny that he might have been in the fray; there were five policemen.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
brother-in-law, was residing with me at the time—ho is since dead, and I am his executrix—I remember going into his room on the afternoon of 16th April—I had placed some money there a few days previously, belonging to him—there were four 5l. notes in an envelope, and some silver and gold, and a paper close by, with some silver—I think there was 4l. in gold, and a half-sovereign—there was nearly 25l.—on 16th April, I went upstairs and saw it quite safe—when I was coming down I met the prisoner—she asked permission to go to the post-office—I said, "I do not know"—I did not feel well—I did not give her leave—I left her for some twenty minutes or so—on coming back I saw William Wright, Mr. Robert Thorpe's servant—I inquired after the prisoner, and he made me an answer—I went up-stairs with him and looked at the drawer—the envelope was in the drawer as I left it, but the notes and all the gold and silver were gone—there were some pieces of paper in the envelope—I did not see the prisoner again till I saw her in custody—that was on 1st June or thereabouts—she left her clothes behind when she went away—she has never applied for them, nor any one for her—she had no money on 16th April, because she asked me to lend her some for some purpose—that might have been perhaps a week before the 16th April.
Prisoner. I asked you for some money, and I received some on the Monday. Witness. No; you did not—your wages were due on the very day you left me, therefore I could not have paid your wages on the 19th—I paid your wages a month before.
COURT. Q. Had she received any money from you? A. She had not—she asked me to lend her money, which I did—I lent her about a couple of shillings—her wages were 11s. 8d. a month.
WILLIAM WRIGHT . I was servant to the late Mr. Robert Thorpe, and am now with Mrs. Thorpe—I know the prisoner—she never spoke to me on 16th April, nor did I see her go out of the house—I went up to look at the drawers—the money was in the drawer at 6 o'clock, and when I went up again the whole of it was gone—I could not find any at all—I did not look in the envelope—Mrs. Thorpe was with me at the time—the prisoner had not said anything to me about going out, nor about the post-office.
Prisoner. I told you I was going to the post-office. Witness. I knew you were going up to the post-office, but you did not say when you were coming back.
JAMES WARD . I am a licensed victualler, and keep the Blue-eyed Maid, 126, High-street, in the Borough—I remember the prisoner coming to my house—I should think it was nearly 9 o'clock in the evening—I cannot exactly say the day, but I should think it is eleven weeks ago from this date—she had a quartern of braudy, and she paid with some silver, and she then gave my barman a small parcel, and he said that the woman had asked him to take care of it, that she was a servant at Walthamstow, and Was going home the next day—she asked him if he would put it in a fresh piece of paper, and he gave it into my hands, and in it there were two 5l. notes, and a pair of gold earrings, nothing else—she called the next day, and I went to the iron-safe and brought out the parcel—I said to her, "Undo the parcel and see if it is safe as you left it"—she did so, and before going she asked me if I had change for one of the notes, a 5l. note—I changed it, and paid it into our bankers, to the best of my recollection, the next day or a few days afterwards.
GEORGE HOLMES (Policeman, M 252). On 29th May, I stopped the prisoner in the Southwark Bridge-road—I said, "I shall take you into custody for absconding from your situation at Walthamstow, and stealing a
quantity of money"—she said, "You are mistaken"—I said, "Do you mean to say you have never been in service at Walthamstow?" She hesitated, and then said she had, but had never taken any money—she said the and gold, reason she had not returned to her situation was, because she had gone out that evening and got drunk, and she did not return afterwards.
GARRETT MUNRO PEARCE (Policeman, M 59). On the 29th I was in company with the last witness—I heard him charge the prisoner with stealing money; she said he was mistaken in the party—I took her to the station and said, "Mrs. Snell, you will have to remain here till I go down to Walthamstow and see Mr. Robert Thorpe"—she laughed and said, "It no use your going there, he is dead"—and then she made a smothered, "It is true; they can't hang me for it."
Prisoner's Defence. I never saw the money; the two notes I had were my own; she is my sister's husband's aunt; I should not have gone there for Mrs. Thorpe's wages, only more for the sake of a comfortable home. I had for her—I money before ever I went to Mrs. Thorpe; the two 5l. notes I had were money paid to mo for three marble chimney-pieces that my husband left when he died; that he had made; the ear rings were my own.
COURT to ANNA THORPE. Q. Had she been backwards and forwards from your place before? A. She left once, saying that she was very ill, and then tame back again on the Tuesday—she was away for two or three days.
Prisoner. Q. How was it you sent everywhere to inquire about me? A. I sent no one to inquire where you were.
COURT. Q. What time was it when you went up stairs and saw this money? A. About half-past 6—I saw that all the money was quite safe then—I had no particular object for looking to see, only I went into the room to fetch a tea-caddy and I saw the draw a little open, and I looked to see that it was safe, and it was perfectly safe, and within half an hour after that there was not a vestige of it left.
The prisoner received a good character.— GUILTY — Confined Nine Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SLEIGH the Defence.
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY — Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Twelve Months.
June, at half-past 1 o'clock in the morning, after midnight, I was coming down Wellington-street, Woolwich, alone—I met the prisoner, she asked me to go home with her—she came in front of me—I told her I was a married man with a large family, and would not have anything at all to say to her—she came in front of me, at the side of me, and I felt a tug at my watch, which was in my waistcoat pocket—she ran away, and I followed her—I kept her in sight but did not come up close to her to catch her—I cried out, "You have got my watch"—she cried out, "Police, murder"—she did not still keep running, she walked pretty quickly—she went through Bedford-street, where I met Elvey—I told him to keep her in chat until I could get a police constable, and I went on for a policeman, and fetched one, and she was given into custody—when I got back to her, Elvey was with her, and she was also in company with three women that she knew—I have never seen my watch since—it was passed when she came up to her companions—that was after leaving her with Elvey.
Prisoner. Q. Was it in Wellington-street? A. I met you there first—I was not intoxicated; I had had a few glasses—it is not true that I kept on following you, and that you said if I did not leave off you would call a policeman—I never said that I would say nothing about my watch if you would go to some house with me.
ALBERT ELVEY . I am a corporal in the military train—I know the prosecutor—I met him between 1 and 2 o'clock on the night of the 15th, and also the prisoner—I saw them standing together—the prosecutor had hold of the prisoner as if to detain her—he said, "This woman has stolen my watch"—I told him I would detain her while he went after a policeman—I did so; and he went away and came back again in about five minutes with a policeman—no one came up to us while he was gone—there were three females standing within three yards of the prisoner—they were there while the prosecutor was there—they were there when I got up.
Prisoner. Q. Was there any one there when you came up? A. There were three women and two lads.
COURT. Q. Did she catch you by the arm? A. No.
FRANCIS RAYCROFT (re-examined). I saw three women before I went away to fetch the policeman—the prisoner got in amongst them before I left—I saw the two lads—I saw the women in Burford-street—all the women were blackguarding me for accusing the prisoner.
JOHN HOLMES (Policeman, R 145). I took the prisoner into custody—there were several women and two lads there when I got up, besides the prisoner and Elvey—nothing was found on the prisoner—the prosecutor had been drinking, but was not drunk—he had a perfect knowledge of what he was doing—The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "He shall never have his watch again."
Prisoner's Defence. That was said going to, the cell, when the policeman said, "You will be certain to get four years for it," and I said in my passion, "If I do, you will never have the watch again."
FRANCIS RAYCROFT (re-examined). I knew of my watch being safe ten minutes before it happened—I looked at it and returned it to my pocket ten minutes before she came up to me—I had this guard (produced) to it, which was broken—I wore it round my neck.
JURY. Q. Was the guard broken? A. No; the swivel was unscrewed—I could have taken her, but I was afraid of taking hold of her as she was shouting "Murder," for the public would think I was ill-treating her—the ring was not loose before I lost my watch.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES KENNETT . I am a boot maker, at 4, Medina-place, and have a shop at 3, Obelisk-buildings—I let the upper part of that house to lodgers—there are servants of mine there, and I sometimes sleep there myself—on the night of the 27th I locked up my shop and saw it quite safe at 11 o'clock—I was called up about 4 next morning—I went to the shop with the officer, and found that the back-parlour window had been broken and opened, an entrance made into the shop, and a quantity of goods taken away—I missed altogether twenty-five pairs of boots—this (produced) is one of the pairs; the rest have been delivered up to me, sixteen pairs.
FRANK ALLEN (Policeman, L 49). I was on duty on the morning of 28th June in St. George's-road—that is about a quarter of a mile from the prosecutor's house—I saw the prisoner and two more coming up the Lambeth-road, in a direction from the prosecutor's house—they turned round as soon as they saw me and turned back again—I walked after them—I saw that the prisoner had a bag on his shoulder; he walked on ahead of the other two—I passed by them into the London-road and started running—just before I got to the prisoner he chucked the bag off his shoulder and tried to run away—I caught him and took up the bag—we took it to the station, examined it, and found that it contained fifteen pairs of boots, and the prisoner had the pair produced on. his feet—I went back to the prosecutor's shop and there found an old pair of boots, which I took to the station—the prisoner put them on and said they fitted him very well, but they were not his—I produce a key which the prisoner threw down, and a boy picked it up and gave it to me—I do not know that it fits anything.
The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.
DENNIS CLARKE (Policeman, M 108). I produce a certificate (Read: "John Coombe, convicted of larceny, after a previous conviction—Confined Nine Months")—the prisoner is the person—I had him in custody.
GUILTY.— Three years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Justice Wightman.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution, MR. BEST the Defence.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN M'CARTHY . I am single, and live at Leitrim-place, Dover-road—on 11th June last, about I in the morning, I was in the Black Prince public-house, Walworth-road, with a young man named John Newman—we were in a side box in one compartment, the prisoner was in the other; he
left that and came into the opposite side where we were—I had my parse in my hand, and 7s. 6d. in it—I put it in my bosom—I was in the act of paying for something in the bar—we both came out and were on our road towards home, when Newman was struck and knocked down; I was some little distance behind him—the prisoner then ran at me, hit me in the side of the face, knocked me down, and fell over me on the ground—he put his hand in my bosom and took my purse—I held him as long as I could, and screamed out, "Give me my purse, you villain!"' but he got away—I went to the Southwark police-court and gave a description of him, but they said I must go to Carter-street—on my way there I met the officer who had come up at the time, and told him what had happened—I knew the prisoner before, for I was a witness against him, about twelve months ago, for a robbery—I am positive he is the man that knocked me down; when he was taken to the station, he turned to Newman and said, "Cockey, don't let her have me taken."
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. What are you? A. A hawker—this was between 12 and 1 o'clock; it was not 1, because the public-house closes at 1, and it was not closed—I knew the prisoner by sight, but had never spoken to him further than when I was a witness against him at the police-court—I have never said that I would serve him out, or words of that description—I have never expressed any unkind feeling towards him—there were not many persons at the Black Prince on this occasion; there were two or three in the compartment we were in—I could not see who was in the other; there is a partition between—the prisoner came from the other compartment into the one where we were, and he saw me put my purse into my bosom—when we left the house we went towards the Elephant and Castle—Newman was two or three yards ahead of me—there was no one in the street at that time; when I screamed "Police." a lot got round, but the prisoner was gone then—I had been out since a little past 8; I had been with a sister who was ill—I had not been into any other public-house—I had nothing at the Black Prince but a little stout—I met Newman about half-past 11, and was with him till this happened—I was present when the prisoner was taken into custody at the Flying Horse—that is about fifty yards from the Black Prince—I have never been in any difficulty—I was once locked up for another party for one night; but it was a mistake, and I was let out on bail and the charge was dismissed—I was never under lock and key for fourteen days, or anything of that sort.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Have you any ill feeling towards the prisoner? A. Not the slightest—I am positive the prisoner is the person that took my purse.
JOHN NEWMAN . I am a leather dresser, and live at 55, Hunter-street, Dover-road. On the morning of 11th June, between 12 and 1 o'clock, I was with the prosecutrix at the Black Prince, in a side box, and saw the prisoner on the other side—he came round while we were standing there, had something to drink, and went out again—he did not speak to us—while he was there the prosecutrix took out her purse and was about to pay for a lobster, but she did not, and put it into her bosom again—we stopped some time and then came out—I might have been about ten yards in advance of her—I received a blow in the jaw, and when I turned I received another in the face, and was knocked in the mud—it was the prisoner who gave me the first blow—I saw him—when I was getting up I saw the prosecutrix on her knees, in the act of rising, and having hold of the prisoner—they struggled together, and I heard her say "Give me my money, you scoundrel,"
and with that he made off—a policeman came up—I afterwards went with him and the prosecutrix to a public-house, and there found the prisoner and took him into custody—he said to me, "Don't let her do it, Cockey; don't let her do it"—I am quite sure the prisoner is the man that struck me, and that I saw struggling with the prosecutrix—I have seen him about before; nothing further—I have no ill-feeling towards him.
Cross-examined. Q. You have known him by sight? A. I have seen him about for some time—I joined McCarthy about 11, coming along by the Elephant, and we walked down the Walworth-road to the public-house—we stopped there for some time—we went in a little after 11, and did not come out till close upon a quarter to 1—I believe I paid for a couple of pints of stout during that time—I had nothing else, nor had McCarthy in my presence—it was about a quarter of an hour before we left the house that the prisoner came into the compartment where we were—he did not speak to us—there were a great many other persons there—when we came out into the street there were several persons about, and also at the time I was knocked down—the prisoner came behind mo and hit me in the jaw—I saw him as I turned round, and then I received another blow and was knocked down—I was about twenty yards from the Black Prince at that time—I was not able to attend before the Magistrate upon the first examination—when the prisoner was taken he did not say he was not guilty, or that he did not do it—all he said was, "Cockey, don't let her do it"—McCarthy took out her purse in the public-house to buy a lobster, but she did not buy it—there was a man in there selling lobsters—I was quite sober—I was not turned out of the station-house because I was not sober—I was told to go out while they were taking the evidence of McCarthy.
WILLIAM BAGNALL (Policeman, P 171). On 11th June, between 12 and 1 in the morning, I was on duty in the Walworth-road—I heard the cries of police, and saw the prosecutrix, who told me she had been robbed—she afterwards gave the prisoner into custody for knocking her down and robbing her of 7s. 6d. and a purse—the prisoner said to Newman, "Don't let her do it"—I believe he called him "Cockey"—I saw Newman at the same time I saw the prosecutrix—he looked as if he had been well rolled in the mud.
Cross-examined. Q. What time was this? A. About a quarter to 1—it was the cries of "police" that attracted my attention—I found several persons there, a dozen or more—at that time I saw nothing of the prisoner—it was about a quarter of an hour afterwards that I took him at the Flying Horse—he said he had not touched a halfpenny all that day—he said he did not do it.
COURT. Q. In what state did you find the prosecutrix's dress when you came up? A. All open and loose—the eyes were off her dress—Newman was smothered in mud—he did not appear to have been drinking—he was turned out of the station—it was not for being drunk; but we never allow any one to come in when a charge is taken.
The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.
CHARLES RILEY (Policeman, L 68). I produce a certificate (Read; "Thomas Smeaton, convicted of larceny from the person, at Newington, 19th May, 1856—Confined Three Months) the prisoner is the person mentioned in that certificate—I had him in custody.
GUILTY.*— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
The officer stated that the prisoner had also been three times summarily convicetd, and that he had never known him doing any honest work.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MR. ATKINSON conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES ARMITT . I am out of employ, and am eighteen years of age—about a quarter to 10, on the day in question, I was in the Waterloo-road, and saw Williams sitting on a door step, in Granby-street, with another person—she got up, took hold of my arm, and said, "Will you come in-doors a little while?"—I said, "I cannot stop"—she said, "You need not stop, and I want you"—I went in with Williams—the door was shut directly I got in, I cannot say who by—Williams asked me to come into the front parlour—I did so, and she shut the door—I did not look to see whether the shutters were closed—she asked me to give her some money—I said, "What for? I want to go, it is getting late"—she said, "You must give me some before you go," and she opened the door, called Carldon into the passage, and said, "He will not give me any money"—Carldon said, "You must give me some before you go"—I said, "I have got none"—she said, "You have," and I gave her a two shilling piece, which I took from my left trousers' pocket, but did not take out any other money—they were both standing in the passage, not far from each other—Carldon said, "You have got some more money," and I gave her another shilling out of the same pocket—she said that I had got some more money—I said that I had not—she felt my trousers' pocket, and said, "You have got a purse there"—I said, "Yes, I know I have; but there is nothing in it"—she said that she knew there was, and she would make me show it to her before I went—she caught me by the collar, and I felt very much frightened—I pulled my purse out, and tried to hide the money under my thumb—it was 2l. 10s. in gold, wrapped up in a piece of paper—she snatched it out of my hand, took the money out, and said, "I thought you said you had not got any money, what do you mean?"—I did not say anything—she asked me if I had got any money to get home with—I said, "No"—she gave me the florin and shilling back, and opened the door and let me out, and I directly called the police.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. How long have you been out of a situation? A. Twelve months—the money I lost was some which I had got by my wife—it was all I had got—I am married—I did not have connexion with either of the prisoners—I went in because she asked me to do so—I had nothing for the money.
JOHN COLLINS (Policeman, L 184). On 18th June, I saw Williams speak to the prosecutor, and saw them walk up Granby-street and into No. 95—as soon as they were in, the parlour shutters were closed, and the street door shut by somebody inside—I remained outside about a quarter of an hour, when the door was opened and Armitt came out on the step and called police—I said, "What is the matter?"—he said, "I have been robbed of two sovereigns and a half"—I ran into the back parlour, and saw the prisoners—he pointed out Carldon as the person who had got the 2l. 10s. in her hand—I caught hold of her left hand—she had it closed very tight—I said, "You have got some money here belonging to that gentleman"—she said, "I know I have"—I said, "Give it up"—she said, "I shall not"—the sergeant came in, and with his assistance I got 2l. 10s. in gold out of her hand—she said, "I suppose if the gentleman gets his money he will be satisfied?"—I said, "The gentleman has not got the money at present; it is in the hands of the police, and will not be given up.
and assisted him in getting the money from Carldon's left hand—she resisted very violently—we had great difficulty in getting it from her—she said that she supposed if the prosecutor got his money he would be satisfied—there was a short pause, and then Williams said the same.
Carldon. I said that I was not going to give up the money after the gentleman having to do with both of us; were we not in our petticoats and chemises? A. Your dress was off—I did not notice that Williams' dress was unfastened.
COURT to JOHN COLLINS. Did you keep any note of the time that passed from the moment the prosecutor went in, till he came out? A. Not more than fifteen minutes—the big clock went three-quarters just at the time he went into the house, and it was striking 10 when he came out.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
Before Mr. Recorder.
621. JAMES JONES (18), JOHN MAHONEY (17), CHARLES MAYES (17), and JOSEPH JENNINGS (17) , Breaking and entering the shop of Robert Taylor, and stealing therein 1 jacket, value 15s., and 1 clock, value 5s., his property.
ROBERT TAYLOR . I am a wholesale fish dealer, residing at 7, Mill-lane, Lambeth-walk, Surrey, and have a shop in Hercules-buildings, Lambeth, On Tuesday, 18th June, I locked up my shop at 2 o'clock in the morning and went home—the policeman came and called me up at 4 o'clock—I re-turned, and found the place broken open—I missed a watch and clock, abutter pot, two coats, a hat and black bag, and two knives (produced)—these are the fragments of the butter pot—these things are all mine—I found the door broken open—I had securely fastened it before I left—I know nothing about the prisoners; I think I saw them in my shop that night, but I will not be sure.
JOSEPH WILLIAM FAWKE (City-policeman, 112). About 2 o'clock in the afternoon of 18th June, I was passing up Smithfield with another officer—I saw the prisoners Jennings and Mayes—Mayes was carrying a parcel under his arm, consisting of a workbox wrapped up in this dirty towel, which is identified by another person—the clock was inside the workbox—I followed them to the corner of Smithfield pens and caught hold of them—Jennings immediately said, "Oh, don't take me Mr. Fawke"—he knew my name—I said, "What have you got there?"—I did not perceive him carrying any-thing—he said, "We have got a workbox and a little clock which we have tried to sell"—I said, "Where did you get them from?"—he said he was induced last night by two other persons, whom he would show me, to go with them, and they went to the other side of the water and broke into two places while they watched, and also into a fish shop in the City, where they stole the workbox—he said, "Do you know Love-lane; I will show you the two, lying in the pens, and you will find a watch that was stolen"—it was Jennings that said all this—I went there with them and another officer, and they pointed out the other two prisoners, and said, "Those are the two men that broke into the fish shop"—Mahoney and Jones both denied it—we then, with the assistance of McLeod, took the whole four to the police-station—I did not notice anything on the ground then—I saw the mackintosh, but there was such a mob round at the time, and Mahoney was violent—it was laying down by the side of Mahoney and Jones—this is not the one—it was taken away by the crowd—we found these remnants of a dish
with butter adhering—the lid that has been brought corresponds exactly; it is of the same pattern—Jennings was wearing this jacket under his other clothes—I took him to the station-house—three of them said they had got no homes—Jones gave his mother's address—I know all the prisoners by sight—I saw them on the day previous in Love-lane, close to the Smithfield sheep pens—there were five of them together then—I have frequently seen them in company with each other, and frequently watched them.
Jones. Q. How could they point us out if were lying down? A. They pointed you out where you were lying down—I have no doubt we were thirty yards away.
Jennings. Q. What hour the day before was it that you saw us? A. Four o'clock, on the afternoon of Monday, the 17th.
JAMES MCLEOD (City-policeman, 141). I was with the last witness on the afternoon of 18th June in Smithfield pens—I saw Jennings and Mayes taken into custody—I heard them say they did not steal the things, they were only induced to accompany the other two—they spoke of three rob-beries—I then went into the pens and saw Jones and Mahoney—on the ground close to where they stood there was a mackintosh lying on the ground—I also picked up these pieces of a broken butter dish—Jones and Mahoney denied all knowledge of the other prisoners, and said they had not committed the robbery—there was a fifth man, I think, who got away—at the station I found some note paper on Jones—after Jennings and Mayes said that Mahoney and Jones committed the robbery they pointed them out, and I went away to secure them—I do not know that the other officer said, "Why did not you take him in custody?"
The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were read as follows:—Jones says: "I am quite innocent of the charge; Jennings said that what he said was out of spite to me." Mahoney says: "I am quite innocent; Mr. McLeod came into the cell and said that Jennings said that I had some postage stamps on me; I said all that I had I had put on the window sill. I told him I had no postage stamps at all. I told him to look on the window; I told him I had put everything I had on the window; he (McLeod) turned back again and said there was no postage stamps on the window—I said it was only a spite Jennings had against me to say so." Mayes says: "Two men gave me the box to sell for them, and I went to see whether I could sell them; no one would buy them of me—as we were turning back from Smithfield-pens I was going to look for the men to tell them, and the officer laid hold of me and said, 'Where did you get those things from?" and I told him two men gave them to me, who were in the pens—he said, 'Do you know the men?' and I said, 'I don't know,' I was going to see where I could find them in the pens, and I saw Jones standing, and I thought they were the two, but they were not, and then Jennings made answer, and said they were the two, and the officer went to them. '"
HELEN HAGGERTY . Mahoney is my brother—some one came and told me of his being taken in custody—I heard of it in the evening—he slept at my place the previous night—he was washing bottles all Monday for a man that lives near there, and he came home about half-past 4 o'clock and had his tea—he went out about 5 o'clock—on the night the robbery was done he slept at my place, and it was very near 10 o'clock when he went out the next morning—he had been out till between 9 and 10 the night before, and he was never out between those times—he sleeps in the same room—there is a
bedstead put there, where he slept—I am sure he was there the whole of the night.
JONES and MAHONEY— NOT GUILTY .
MAYES and JENNINGS— GUILTY .
622. JAMES JONES, JOHN MAHONEY, CHARLES MAYES , and JOSEPH JENNINGS , were again indicted for breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Samuel Hardy, and stealing therein 1 box, value 5s., 2 sheets of paper, and I towel, the goods of Sarah Franklin. Second Count, Feloniously receiving the same.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH WILLIAM FAWKE (City-policeman, 112). (The evidence of this witness, given in the last case, was read over to him, to which he assented, and added.) At the station-house Jennings said, "We only got some postage stamps; they were taken from a workbox from a house in a street opposite Victoria Theatre"—Mahoney was searched in my presence—I saw him take something from his waistcoat pocket; I am not positive what it was—he put it into his mouth and afterwards spit it out again—I looked at it, and I believe it was postage stamps chewed up—he said he put the postage stamps on the window—I also saw Jones searched—I saw some writing paper taken from his trousers' pocket.
Mahoney. He did not state that at Guildhall—I told him it was tobacco—I had it in my mouth in a paper, and he said he could not swear what it was.
JAMES MCLEOD . I remember taking the prisoners into custody—the evidence I gave in the last case is correct in this case—I searched Jones at the station-house, and found on him these four sheets and a half of note paper (produced)—while I was searching Jones, I saw Mahoney take three postage-stamps out of his waistcoat pocket and put them in his mouth—I saw them in his hand about a second—I am positive they were postage-stamps—I picked up a portion and Fawke picked up another portion, and I compared them—Jennings said, "He has got some more about him now"—I then went to the cell to make further search.
JONES. Q. Did you hear Mahoney say that he had three postage-stamps, and that he had a half-quartern loaf for them because he was hungry? A. Yes.
SARAH FRANKLIN . I live at 17, Cornwall-road—on Sunday night, 17th May, I went to bed about half-past 11 o'clock—the parlour table was close to the window, and my work-box was all right there when I went to bed—my husband's likeness was at the bottom of the box, wrapped in paper—there was also another likeness in a case—that was taken out of the case and pot on the table, and there was stationery, and a few sheets of writing-paper, and three stamps—the landlady came in the morning and knocked at my door, and I saw the likeness on the table and took it up—this is my paper—I know it by the blots—that was in the work-box—I remember it having been blotted just in the same way—the window was a little way open from the top—I think I opened it, and in the morning it was right wide open from the bottom—it was not wide enough, as I left it, for anybody to get in—in the morning it was open wide enough to admit a person.
Jones's Defence. I met Mahoney on the morning; as we were passing to go to work, through Smithfield, I picked up those sheets of paper and put them in my pocket, and Mahoney said he felt sleepy and he lay down and went to sleep and I sat by his side, when the constables came up.
Mahoney's Defence. I went with Jones; we saw two men go up and give them the things.
Mayes's Defence. Two men gave me the things to sell, and as I was coming back the two constables laid hold of me and asked me if I knew the men; I said I did not know them till I saw them, and I went to the pens and saw these two, but I do not think they were the two that gave me the things, because one had a hat on.
GUILTY on the Second Count , JENNINGS*— Confined Nine Months.
MAHONEY and MAYES— Confined Six Months each.
JONES was further charged with having been before convicted.
JOSEPH WILLIAM FAWKE (City-policeman, 112). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, January, 1860.—James Jones, convicted of stealing a handkerchief—Confined Six Months.") Jones is the same person—I was present—I took him in custody.
JONES—GUILTY— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
623. WILLIAM GILLARD (30), HENRY WARING (28), MARY DRISCOLL (70), JANE FRAZIER (28), and CHARLOTTE SMITH (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of George White, and stealing therein 97l. his property.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZA WHITE . I am the wife of George White, who keeps the Golden Lion in Kent-street, St. Mary, Newington—on 17th June I saw Frazier in our house several times during the day—I saw Gillard about 7 o'clock in the evening—the last time I saw Mrs. Frazier was from 11 to 12 o'clock—she had Gillard with her the last time—she was in in the evening once with Gillard—he was only in in the evening once, but he was in the last time between 11 and 12 o'clock—on that evening I had a sum of money in the house—it was kept in a box, in a dark room at the side of my bed-room—as we go past our passage the room is facing the staircase—there was more silver in value than gold—the silver was done out in pounds' worth—the gold was wrapped up, except one parcel in the cash-box which had a little loose silver with it—the money was all wrapped up in newspaper—I last saw it safe on Monday afternoon, the 17th, from 3 to 4 o'clock, as near as possible—I did not count it at all at any later period of the day—I went up in my bed-room as late as 10 o'clock that night—my premises were then perfectly safe, and the box also—the window was not fastened, but it was shut—the blind was down—at five minutes to 1, on the following morning, I received some information, in consequence of which I entered my bed-room—I then saw that one of the two top drawers had been broken open—the window was wide open, and the dressing-glass on the floor—the blind was not drawn up, but was gathered up as if done by the window being opened—the two top drawers were put on my bed—the clothes were scattered about the room, and part of Mr. White's clothing was placed on the window-ledge—I went direct to where the money was put, and I missed 97l. of it—the box was not gone, it was broken open—there had been some copper coin amongst the money—one penny-piece of a particular description—there was nothing else that I have seen that I can swear to.
COURT. Q. What was there remarkable in this penny-piece? A. It is an old one—I saw it on Monday the 17th—I next saw it when the constable fetched me in—it is the same coin—there are marks on one side of it—I am able to speak to it.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON (for Driscoll and Frazier). Q. When did you receive that copper coin? A. About three weeks before the robbery—there was about three shillings in copper amongst the money that was taken—I did not keep that penny-piece just like the others—I received it as a penny over the counter—I never receive any foreign copper money so peculiar as that is—sometimes we do receive foreign copper money in business, in mistake for English copper—I had often seen Mrs. Frazier there before—she is in the habit of frequenting the house, like a great many other people who go to have refreshment—she was drinking on this night, as she usually did.
MARY ANN COOPER . I am niece to Mr. and Mrs. White—on the morning of 18th June, I went into Mrs. White's bedroom and found some clothes on the floor, scattered about, and the dressing glass—I saw the cash-box lying open on the table, and a black bag that had had the money in—I also saw some pieces of paper.
GEORGE HOLMES (Policeman, M 252). I know the premises of the Golden Lion in Kent-street, and also the houses occupied by Driscoll and Frazier—Driscoll's house is next door to the Golden Lion—the two first doors adjoin the Golden Lion, the next is a coffee-shop, and next come two houses belonging to Mrs. Driscoll, and Mrs. Frazier her daughter—there are walls behind, separating the yards of each house; and at the bottom of the yard there is a wall that runs direct down to Mr. White's premises—I have examined it, and could walk on it—there is no thoroughfare in that direction—there are no outlets from the yards.
MARGARET ARCHER . I am living with my mother, Margaret Bray, in Maypole-alley, Southwark—on the night of 17th June last, I met Mrs. Frazier's son at her door, and went in there with him—I had been there a few times before—my father had lived there, and I used to go to see him—Mrs. Frazier was in the house when I went in—it was about 11 o'clock at night—there were four young men there besides Mrs. Frazier—Gillard and Waring are two of them, and the other two were called "Rollicky" and "The sailor"—there was no one else besides those four men, Mrs. Frazier, the boy, and myself—the four men went out at the back door, and after that Mrs. Frazier bolted the door and then went out at the front door—she was absent about twenty minutes, and then returned by the front do r—she said to the boy, who is her son, "Are they come yet?" and he replied "No"—before she went out at the front door, she said, "I will go and keep them in tow"—after she had asked the boy whether they had come in, and he had said, "No," she went and opened the back yard door and looked out—she did not say anything then—she bolted the door again—she did not say anything then—in about a couple of minutes after that she was going to the front door again, and a kick came to the back yard door—she opened that door, and Henry Waring came in first—Mrs. Frazier said, "Have you got it?"—he replied, "Fish eye has"—Charlotte Smith went by that name—I saw William Gillard come off the wall about five minutes after Waring had come in, and in about five minutes after Gillard had come in, Charlotte Smith came to the front door and came in—she had on a light pink skirt and a cloak, and had her apron up, holding it up in front, and her cloak over it—I saw Jane Reynolds about that time going through the passage—Smith placed the money on the table—she took it out of her apron—there was some silver, and copper, and some gold, wrapped up in newspaper—Mrs. Frazier said to Waring, "You share it," and Waring replied, "No, you're best"—he then counted out 10l. on the table to Mrs. Frazier, and
said, "That is your share"—he gave 10l. to Gillard, and said, "That's your share"—then he placed ten sovereigns before himself, and said, "That's my share"—he placed 10l. before the other man, and three before Smith, and said, "That's your share"—he also placed 4l. before another young person I do not know her name; and the rest was given to Mrs. Frazier, and Waring said, "Take this and give it to the other two young men"—the copper money was amongst that—I did not see Reynolds again; I saw her once—I cannot recollect how near that was to the time when Charlotte Smith came in; it was after—when the division of the money was going on the door into the passage was open—after Frazier had received the rest of the money she went out—I saw her go straight by the Golden Lion.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. What were you doing in this house? A. Nothing—I went there because the little boy called me in—he was present while the money was being divided—while that was going on they told me not to "crack a lay"—that means that I was not to tell—they did not give me anything—I first told these circumstances on the Thursday night, afterwards—I do not know what day this was—it was four days afterwards I think that I communicated them—I told Mr. White—he did not come and make inquiries of me—I was telling a young person and he heard me—I know Frazier—my mother's name is Bray, and my father's name is Archer—he left my mother and went to live with Frazier—we did not have a quarrel about it—my mother had no quarrel—they are not on friendly terms that I know of—I was never there when they had a quarrel—I have had tea with Fraziers—I have been there when Mr. Archer has been there.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you have any quarrel with Mrs. Frazier at all) A. No; nor do I know that my mother has had any quarrel—he does not live with her now.
JANE REYNOLDS . I was living at Mrs. Frazier's on the 17th June—I saw the last witness there that night for the first time I ever saw her in my life—there were also Gillard and Waring, and two other men—Gillard had been sleeping there—one' of the men is called "Sailor," and the other "Rollicky"—the four went out into the back yard, but I did not see them do anything—I should say that was from half-past 10 to 12 o'clock—after they went out Mrs. Frazier was in and out—she was not far from the front door; she was backwards and forwards through the passage—only the two prisoners returned, I have not seen the other two since—Gillard and Waring returned from the back door—Mrs. Frazier let them in—I saw Smith come in at the front door—it was an unusual thing for her to be at our house—she put something out of her apron on to the table—I heard Mrs. Frazier and the men talking about some money, but I did not know what it was—I was close to the room, in the passage—I did not hear them talk about doing anything with the money—I heard some one mention 20l. and 3l.—when Charlotte Smith came in she had a cloak on, wrapped round her, over her apron, with whatever it was she had got in that—she had no bonnet—Mrs. Driscoll is the mother of Frazier—I saw her that night backwards and forwards—Mrs. Frazier and her mother had not been friends a day or two before, but that evening she was backwards and forwards and in our house several times from 10 o'clock to half-past 2—the next morning I was at Mrs. Driscoll's, and I saw her open the bottom drawer of a chest of drawers in the parlour near the fire-place, and empty some money into it—some of the money was wrapped in paper, and some not—it was printed paper—I went into the next room with her, talking to her, and she put that paper in the fire—Mrs. Driscoll keeps the two next houses to the
Golden Lion, then there is Murphy's, the coffee-shop, and Mrs. Frazier keeps the next two, and Mrs. Driscoll's other daughter keeps the other one—there is a wall running at the bottom of the house up to the Golden Lion—I have only seen the two boys on it—I have seen them run along from our house to the Golden Lion—Mrs. Frazier's little boy that was there that evening, is nine years old—I took a coat and a pair of boots to pledge on the Saturday before this robbery for Frazier—when she asked me to pledge them she told me she had to make her rent money up—I pledged the coat for 4s. and the boots for 2s.—Mrs. Driscoll did not ask me to pledge anything for her—Smith brought me a shawl and told me it was for Mrs. Driscoll—I pledged it and got 5s. on it—I obtained a ticket for it which I gave to Smith.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Were you in Court during the examination of the last witness? A. Yes; I was at this place as servant—I saw Charlotte Smith come in at the front door—she had on a pink cotton skirt, and a cloak that she generally runs about in—I am quite sure of the date—I think there is something particular to make me remember it when Mrs. Frazier struck me an hour before—she frequently struck me—I had been living in that house eight days, but I had been next door since April—I was acquainted with all the houses, and with the visitors there—there are so many come there that I do not know half the names of them—the whole five places are brothels.
ELIZABETH SHAW . I live at Murphy's coffee-shop, which is between Mrs. Driscolls and Mrs. Frazier's—I know all the prisoners—on the night of 17th June, I saw Smith come out of Mrs. Driscoll's house and go into Mrs. Frazier's—she had her cloak on, and her apron up as if she had something in it—Mrs. Driscoll's is next but one to the Golden Lion—her arms were down like this under her cloak, with her apron up—it looked as if she was carrying something—it was about half-past 11 o'clock, as near as I can say—I saw Mrs. Driscoll go into Frazier's, backwards and forwards two or three times—I saw nothing else taken in except beer—I saw plenty of that and spirits that night; more than ever I saw.
GEORGE HOLMES (Policeman, M 252). I first received information of this robbery on 22d June, in consequence of which I went to the house of the prisoner Driscoll on the 24th—I found her at home—I said, "What money have you got in the house?"—she said, "Very little"—I said, "How much have you got in that drawer?" pointing to the bottom drawer of a chest of drawers—I had received information which induced me to point to that drawer—she said, "Well, there is some gold in there that belongs to myself, and a quantity of silver and halfpence that belong to my daughter; I do not know what amount there is"—I searched the drawer and found 8l. 10s. in gold, and about 4l. in silver and halfpence—I put the money on the table and sent for Mrs. White, who was only next door—she looked over the money and picked out this foreign copper coin, and said, "This piece I can swear to, I have put it separate with other money in the box where they stole it from"—there was also this other foreign coin amongst the halfpence—she said, "This, I believe, was my property, but I cannot swear to it."
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. Did she say, "There is some gold I put away to pay my rent? A. No; she said, "Some gold belonging to me"—I will swear that she used those words; and also, "The silver belongs to my daughter, Mrs. Frazier"—she did not, at that time, say, "I put it away to pay my rent"—I believe she said something of the kind in going down to the station—I swear that she did not in the house, at the time, say, "There is some gold I put away to pay my rent."
Gillard. Q. Had you information of the robbery on the 24th? A. I think it was the 22d that I had the first information of the robbery—I apprehended two altogether, I think, before you.
COURT. Q. What is it you are looking at? A. It is the date of the apprehension of all the prisoners, written by myself; the names of the prisoners and the times that I apprehended them—it was the 21st that Gillard was apprehended—I also apprehended Driscoll and Waring.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Before she said anything about the money or the gold, did she say she had very little? A. Yes; very little—I believe the rent of that house would be about 10s. 6d. a week—I believe they are weekly tenements, but I am not certain.
GARRATT MUNRO PEARCE (Policeman, M 59). I took Mrs. Frazier into custody on 20th June, at a quarter-past 10, P.M.—I told her I should have to take her for being concerned with other parties in robbing Mr. White of 97l.; she said she knew nothing about it—I said she would have to accompany me to the station—she then said that she would not be screwed up for any person; she did know who committed the robbery and she would round on them, it was Rollicky and Sailor—I then asked her whether she had any money—she said she had none—I afterwards searched her drawers, and in a shawl in the drawers I found 18s. 6d. in silver—I then took her to the station—I did not say anything more about my information; I said, "From information I received"—I then said, "At all events the money has come through your place, through your hands"—she made no reply to that.
Cross-examined by MR. KEMP. Q. You only found 18s. 6d.? A. Yes—she did not tell me that that was not her is; she said nothing at all about it.
Gillard's Defence. I went to put in thirteen windows on that day, that is how the girl saw me there.
Smith's Defence. I know nothing about it.
GILLARD— GUILTY .*— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
DRISCOLL— GUILTY of receiving.— Confined Twelve Months.
FRAZIER— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
SMITH— GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
WARING— GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted
---- (Policeman, M 60). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, May, 1858.—Henry Waring, convicted of burglariously breaking and entering a dwelling-house, and stealing therein a purse and money—Confined Eighteen Months.")—I had him in custody—Waring is the person.
GUILTY.**— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. CLERK and ROWDEN conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN . I was formerly an inspector of the V division, and am now employed by the Mint authorities—in consequence of information I received from them, I marked five sixpences and two fourpenny pieces on 21st June last—I gave four sixpences to a man named Girling, and three fourpenny pieces and one sixpence to Yeomans at a coffee-house in the Westminster-bridge-road, about a quarter before 6 in the evening—I sent them to the Rochester Castle beer shop; in about seven minutes Yeomans returned and gave me four counterfeit half-crowns, which I produce—in consequence of that I went to the Rochester Castle, accompanied by other officers—I saw the prisoner France there—Yeomans said to me in his hearing, "This is the man I bought the half-crowns of; I gave him 1s. 4 1/4 d. for them"—Girling was in the tap-room at that time, and he came out and said to me, "And I bought seven two-shilling pieces of him, Mr. Brannan, here they are"—he gave me those pieces (produced)—I then seized France, and said to him, "Well, Turfy" (he is known by that name) "I received instructtions from the solicitor of the Mint to mark some pieces of coin in conesquence of your large dealings in counterfeit coin"—he made no answer—he was then seized by Inspector Bryant and I—he resisted, and we pulled him into the tap-room and searched him—I saw Bryant take out of one of his pockets two half-sovereigns, nineteen shillings, two sixpences, and a three-penny piece, and from the other pocket, five pennyworth of coppers—among that money was the marked money which I had sent in before—all the rest of the money was good—he said his name was William France, but he refused his address—I then took him to the station—he there refused his address again, and speaking to the witness Girling; he said, "I shall plead guilty to this at the Old Bailey; I shall shake hands with you when I come out, and soon stop your wind"—when I first went into the beer-shop I looked through the tap-room window, which looks into the yard, and saw the prisoner Brennan run from the door into a shed in the yard, followed by Sergeant Leather—this is the marked money (produced) which I gave to Girling and Yeomans on the evening of 21st; they were taken from France's pocket by Inspector Bryant.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON (for France). Q. Are these all marked? A. Yes; this sixpence is countermarked on the other side; it is the only one which is so marked—I marked the coins with a penknife—I have known Girling many years; his father was in the police—I believe both Girling and Yeomans are respectable youths—I believe so conscientiously; if I thought otherwise I should not have employed them—I could have got fifty more—I never employed either of the men before in a similar transaction—I made an appointment with them to meet at the coffee-shop—we met the day previous in the neighbourhood—I had never been in the Rochester beer-house before I made the capture—I watched outside long enough—the expression, "I will plead guilty," was used in the presence of all the witnesses, and I think no fewer than nine or ten officers—Bryant, Leather, sad the other officers were all present when I gave this marked money to Girling and Yeomans—I believe they saw me mark it; I made no disguise of it—I told them to ask for counterfeit coin—I used the words "counterfeit coin"—Yeomans was respectably employed at the time, and Girling was out of work—from what I have heard he left his employment in consequence of
being subject to fits—he dove a commercial traveller's trap, and Yeomans was in a good employment—there were not many other people in the public-house; only the woman that France cohabits with, and the landlord and his wife, who was inside the bar; no one else except the officers who accompanied me.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. You say you saw Brennan run into a shed? A. Yes; I was standing in the tap-room at that time—I cannot say whether Brennan is potman at the public-house; I don't know—I was sot present when he was searched—I do not think anything was found on him.
MR. CLERK. Q. You say you have never employed Girling or Yeoman! before; you mean bee that week? A. Yes—I had sent them to the public-house on the Monday night before, the 17th—I went down to the neighbourhood on Thursday; that was the day of the Hampton races.
THOMAS GIRLING . I live at 12, Pool-terrace, City-road, and am a commercial trap-driver. I am not in employment at present; I was last at Mr. D. A. Laurie's, 92, Bartholomew-close—I left his employment about two months ago—on 21st June I went with Mr. Brannan and the witness Yeoman to a coffee-house in Lambeth—Mr. Brannan gave me four sixpences, which he marked first; and he gave Yeoman three fourpenny pieces and a sixpence, putting an additional mark on that sixpence—I saw that the four-penny pieces were marked—in consequence of instructions that Mr. Brannan gave me I went with Yeomans to the Rochester Castle beer-shop, and went into the tap-room—nobody was there when we went in—William France came in first by himself—I had seen him before—I first saw him on Monday night, the 17th, in that same public-house, passing to and fro from the yard—I was also there on Tuesday; I saw him there then—I went on the Wednesday, and also saw him there then—I saw the prisoner Brennan there on the first occasion, Monday—when France came into the tap-room on Friday, I asked him if he had got any "things"—he said he had a few. and asked me what I wanted—I told him "a few dees"—he said he had not got any—dees are shillings—I have heard the term a good many times—I asked the prisoner how he got on at Hampton races, and he said that he got on very well; it was like asking for gold on the course; that he took four score florins down with him, and passed them all on the road, and his woman passed seventeen at one public-house—I asked him which way be went down, whether by train or not—he said it cost him 3s. 6d. to go down by a van—when I asked him if he had any dees, he said that a parcel came for him at 2 o'clock, but a woman came and showed him up before a lot of men who were having their dinner there—I then asked him what he had got—he said, "Some florins and half-bulls"—I said he had better let me have a couple of shillings' worth of florins; and he said, "You had better have seven, because that will be two shillings and a halfpenny"—he then went into the shed—you go straight through the tap-room into the yard to the shed, which is on the left hand side of the yard; it is a sort of pot-house where they clean the pots—when France came back from the shed, he gave me a parcel containing seven florins, and I gave him the four marked sixpences which Mr. Brannan had given me, and a halfpenny—Yeomans would not take any at first, and I said, "Oh, you had better take some, Yeomans; you had better take some half-crowns;" and he said, "Well, I will take eighteenpenny worth"—France said he had better take four, and that would come to sixteenpence—he got them and gave them to Yeomans wrapped up in paper—he paid for them. and teen left the public-house and went away—I remained talking to France for some time, but he went and sat by the landlord and talked to him—in a
few minutes Mr. Brannan and the other constables came into the house; Yeomans came in first, and Mr. Brannan followed him—when they came in, Yeomans said to Mr. Brannan, "I purchased four counterfeit half-crowns of the prisoner France;" and I then saw Mr. Brannan seize him—I said, "I also purchased seven florins of the prisoner France," and gave them to Mr. Brannan—France looked as if he could have killed me if he got hold of me; he foamed at the mouth; he did not say anything—I afterwards went to the station when the charge was taken—he said he would plead guilty at the trial at the Old Bailey, and that when he came out he should shake hands with me and stop my wind—when I went into the public-house on Friday, I saw the prisoner Brennan lying on a form in the yard, and walking to and fro, looking out—I did not see him come into the tap-room while Yeomans and I were there—I have no recollection of seeing him except on the form—I had seen the prisoner Brennan there when I was there on the other days—I went in on Tuesday, about quarter to 12, and stopped there till just upon 2 in the middle of the day—I saw France and Brennan both there then—Brennan was then lying on the form and walking to and fro.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. How long have you known this beer-house? A. Only from Monday, the 17th—the yard had been used for a skittle-ground—it had every appearance of it—there were the plates there—I was never in that house before Monday, 17th June—I was in there every day from 17th, up to the Friday when the prisoners were taken—a man named Orridge, I believe, keeps the public-house—I cannot say how long he has kept it—when I went in on the Friday, with the marked money, France came in, and asked me what I wanted—I asked him what he had got—that was the first thing that passed between us—that was before I asked him how he got on at Hampton—I asked him that, because he told me on the Wednesday night before, that he was going down to Hampton—he said, he intended to take a dose down to Hampton—I remember telling him that I had done six at Hertford—I had not done six at Hertford—that was not true—I did not say six what—I suppose he meant six months—he was talking about imprisonment, and he asked me what time I had done last; and to keep up the deceiving, I said, "Six"—I have heard a shilling called a dee in a great many instances, a bull stands for a crown—I believe that is a term used by the working classes, bull, and half-bull—I live with my father in Pool-terrace—he has been keeping me for the last two months—I have never done any time—I have never been charged in my life—I was working in Bartholomew-close about four months—I worked at a wholesale tobacconist's, in Goswell-street, before that, for about ten months, as a driver—I have several times been an apprentice, but I was never bound yet—I was in an engineer's shop for twelve months—I am eighteen now—my father is the beadle of St Luke's—he was formerly a sergeant in the G division of police.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. How many times have you been to this public-house? A. Five times—there was nobody at all in the tap-room on the Friday when I went in—I got some beer at the bar—there was some one there—the tap-room faces the yard—there was nobody but Brennan in the yard that I saw—I should not like to swear, but I did not see anybody else—on the Monday and Tuesday mornings I saw some costermongers walking to and fro during these transactions of our is—Brennan was not there; he was out in the yard—I do not know that he was the potman of that public-house—I only saw him lying about there all day long; always when I have been there—I have sometimes been there more than once a day,
sometimes two or three times—I saw Brennan there on Monday and Tuesday—Wednesday night I did not see him—I saw him there on Thursday walking to and fro from the tap-room to the bar, and into the yard—I saw him there on Thursday morning, at a little after 8, or twenty minutes to 9—I saw him on Monday nigh at 9 o'clock—he was then sitting down, drinking his beer—plenty of other people were in the tap-room—on Tuesday, about a quarter-past twelve, he was walking about the yard—I was in the tap-room—I could see into the yard—he was sometimes sitting down—there were a great many people there, walking to and fro, and he was among them—I did not see him Wednesday—I saw him on Thursday, about twenty-five minutes to 9; he was standing before the bar, drinking some beer—he was not present at all during these transactions with France.
MR. CLERK. Q. Was your father an acquaintance of Mr. Brannan's? A. I believe so—this conversation about doing six months at Hertford occurred on the Tuesday—France was talking about some one doing four years, and he asked me what time I had done last, and I said I had done six months at Hertford—I was never in gaol in my life.
JOHN YEOMANS . I am a compositor, and live at 11, Upper Fountain-place, City-road—on Friday evening, 21st June, I received three marked fourpenny-pieces and one marked sixpence from Mr. Brannan, at a coffee-shop in the Westminster-road—I then went with Girling to the Rochester Castle public-house—the prisoners were both in the yard when we got there—Girling called France, and asked him if he had got any dees, and he said he had not any left, he had sold them all out—Girling said, "What hate you got?"—France said, "I have only got florins and half-bulls"—Girling said he wanted dees if he had them, and then asked him for two shillings' worth of florins—France said he had better take seven, and that would be two shillings and a halfpenny, and he said he would have them; France then went to the shed, got them, and immediately returned—he gave them to Girling, and I saw him pay the four marked sixpences, which Mr. Brannan had given him, and a halfpenny—there was a conversation between Girling and France, to the effect that he took fourscore florins down to Hampton, and his woman got rid of seventeen of them at one house—directly after France gave the florins to Girling, he asked me what I would have—I said I would have eighteen pennyworth of half-crowns—he said, "You had better have four, which will amount to 1s. 4d."—he then went to the shed in the back yard and brought them to me—I paid him for them with the three fourpenny-pieces and the sixpence that Mr. Brannan had given me, and he gave me twopence change—Brennan was in the yard during that time—he came into the tap-room once, looked into a cupboard, and then went into the yard again—after this transaction I went back to the coffee-shop, gave information to Brannan, and gave him the four half-crowns which I had purchased—I then returned to the public-house with him and the other officers—the first thing I saw was the prisoner France sitting on a form in the shop by the side of the landlord, and I immediately said, "That is the man that I purchased the counterfeit coin of"—he was then taken by the officers—I went into the tap-room and saw Brennans there—he immediately rushed into the yard towards the shed—I had been to the Rochester Castle before this night—I went on Monday 17th and on the following Wednesday.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. How long have you been in connexion with Mr. Brannan? A. I have known him for two or three months—I have never been engaged with him in a similar transaction
before—we went to the beer-shop on Friday about a quarter to 6, on Monday about half-past 8 in the evening, and on Wednesday about the same time—I am working as a compositor on the Tablet, a Roman Catholic paper—I leave off work about 7 o'clock—the time varies according to the evening—I had seen France on the Monday previous—I had not conversed with him—Girling went away on the Monday—on the Wednesday he went there about half an hour before me—I met him there—France was in the yard when we went in, and as he was coming from the yard to the shop, Girling stopped him and asked him if he had any dees—he said he had, and asked him how man he would have—Girling said he would have two separate shillings' worth—that was on the Wednesday—I have known Girling two or three months—I knew Mr. Brennan through my brother-in-law—I am in regular employ on the Tablet—I am there now, and have been working there three years—Mr. Philmore is the printer—I did not hear Girling say he had done six—there is not a slur on my reputation—I have never had six months imprisonment in my life—f occupy an apartment in my brother-in-law's house—he is an inspector—I live twenty or thirty yards from Girling's house.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Did you know the prisoner Brennan for any time? A. No; not before this transaction, when we were purchasing coin on the Friday evening—I, Girling, and France, were there together—I do not know whether Brennan is the potman there—I did not observe him take any part in this transaction—he was in the tap-room part of the time—I think he must have heard what was going on—I have not thought before this that he could not hear what was going on; I swear that—he was not present in the tap-room on the Friday when this transaction took place, he was in the yard—he came and looked into a cupboard, and then went out again—I am quite sure he was not in the tap-room when I came—I swear that—they were both in the yard together when we came in—I have not said before that they were not—when the police came, Brennan went from the tap-room through the yard into the shed—I aw some one follow him, but I could not say who it was.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did either you or Girling buy any dees on the Wednesday? A. Yes; Girling asked France for two separate shillings' worth, and he went into the yard and brought back two separate parcels—Girling gave me one in France's presence—I afterwards went with Girling to Mr. Brannan's house, and we handed the packets to him.
BENJAMIN BRYANT (Police-inspector, G). On 21st June I accompanied Mr. Brannan from the coffee-house to the Rochester Castle beer shop—I had seen Yeomans and Girling at the coffee-house that same evening, and had seen Mr. Brannan mark some money and give them—Yeomans returned to the coffee-house, and I accompanied him, Mr. Brannan, Sergeant Leather, and other constables to the Rochester beer shop—when we got there I saw France sitting down on a form in front of the bar—Mr. Brannan told him he had been instructed to look after him as dealing largely in counterfeit coin—I took him and searched him in the tap-room—I found a quantity of gold and silver, which I gave into Mr. Brannan's hands as I got it out of his pocket—he resisted very much—among the silver I found in his pocket, were the sixpences and fourpenny-pieces which Mr. Brannan had given to the witness—I saw him pick the marked pieces out—I took France out into the yard, and saw Brennan coming out of the shed with the officer, Leather, who called my attention to a paper parcel, which he said Brennan had thrown down behind the door—I picked it up, and it contained these
seven counterfeit half-crowns (produced)—I also found another counterfeit half-crown on the ground in the shed—when Leather said Brennan had thrown down the packet, he made no reply—I was at the station when the prisoners were brought there—France made use of some threat to Girling—I do not exactly remember the words.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. He did not say he was guilty, did he? A. Yes, he did; he told the sergeant who took the charge that he was—I cannot say whether he put it down—he cautioned him against what he should say, as it would be used against him—I have not seen the charge sheet—it would not appear on that—the sergeant read the charge to the prisoners, and France said, "I am guilty;" and made use of some threat towards Girling, but I do not exactly remember the words—by France resisting, I mean he tried to get his hands to his pockets—I found nothing but good money upon him.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. When you went in, was Brennan in the tap-room? A. I did not see him; he was some where in the yard—I believe he said at the police-station that he was innocent—I do not know anything against him.
THOMAS LEATHER (Police-sergeant, G 6). On the evening of 21st June, I accompanied Inspector Brennan and the other officers to the Rochester Castle—when I went in I saw the prisoner Brennan run from the tap-room to a shed in the yard at the back of the house—I went after him and over-took him in the shed—I there saw him throw something down in paper—I pointed it out to Inspector Bryant, and saw him pick it up—I took Brennan in custody, and took him to the station—I found nothing on him.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Where was France when you went into the tap-room? A. In the bar, sitting down—I saw Brennan leave the tap-room—I could see that from the bar, and then I ran after him directly—I don't know whether he could have seen us from the tap-room—he might have heard us in the bar—I was close to him when I saw him throw the parcel down in the shed—it is not a large shed, he certainly was in first, but I was close to him—there is no door to the shed, I believe there is a doorway—he did not make a turn—the parcel was thrown down as soon as I took hold of him—it was on the left-hand side of the door, about two yards from the doorway—the parcel is here (produced); it was picked up in the same form as it is now—I told Bryant in Brennan's presence that he had thrown it down—he made no reply—he did not say he knew nothing about it—I know nothing against him—I do not know that he works in this public-house.
JAMES BRENNAN, JUNR . (Police-sergeant, G 21). I went to the Rochester beer-shop with the other officers on this Friday evening—I went into the yard and shed, and in a large trough which is in the shed I found these three counterfeit crowns (produced) wrapped separately in a piece of paper, and also a very largo quantity of strips of paper, bearing the impression of money having been wrapped in them—I went to the station when the charge was taken; it was read over to the prisoners, and France said, "I will plead guilty to this when I get to the Old Bailey; but as for you," shaking his hands at Girling, "I will shake hands with you when I come out and stop your wind."
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. How long have you known Girling? A. For twelve or thirteen years, and know him to be a very respectable young man.
Cross-examined by MR. LLOYD. Q. Do You know anything against
Brennan? A. No; I have not known him any time—I don't know anything about him.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These four half-crowns sold to Yeomans are bad, and all from one mould; thee seven florins are bad, three are from one mould and four from another the seven half-crowns are also bad, and also from the same mould as the four; the half-crown picked up by Bryant is also bad, and from the same mould as the others; the three crown pieces are bad, and from one mould.
Brennan received a good character.
FRANCE— GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
BRENNAN— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and MARKHAM LAW conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH GREEN . I am assistant at the Globe coffee-house, 41, Gibson-street, Lambeth—on Friday evening, 7th June, the prisoner came in and asked for some bread and butter—he paid me with a shilling—I gave him change and put the shilling in the bowl—there were other sixpences and shillings there; the shillings were at the bottom, and the sixpences over them—I put the shilling on the top of the sixpences—Mrs. Stearne, the landlady, said to me, "You have taken another shilling;" and she took it out and live it to my sister to get some butter—I took another shilling between the time when the prisoner gave me the shilling and when Mrs. Stearne came in; but I took it down stairs for a shilling's-worth of coppers—it did not go into the bowl—the next day, Saturday, 8th June, the prisoner came in about the same time, and called for some refreshment—he gave me a bad half-crown, which I gave to Mrs. Stearne.
SUSANNAH STEARNE . On Friday afternoon I went to the bowl and took out a shilling; it was at the top of some sixpences—I bad left for a short time and had counted the money before I went—the shillings were at the bottom—there were several sixpences—I gave the shilling to Eliza Green to go for some butter—she came back in a few minutes and gave me the shilling again—the tradesman I had sent to had bent it; it was a bad one—I put it on one side, and ultimately gave it to the police constable—on the following day Sarah Green gave me a very bad half-crown—I said to the prisoner, "How came you to offer this; have you any more about you?" he said, "Yes, I have two shillings"—I said, "Why did not you give that?" he said, "I suppose I do what you do, give the first that comes"—I said I did not do that, I always gave the smallest coin—I sent for a policeman, gave the prisoner in custody, and gave the half-crown to the constable—I had not seen the prisoner on the Friday.
ELIZA GREEN . I am servant to Mrs. Stearne—on Friday afternoon, 7th June, my sister gave me a shilling, and I went to Mr. Meadows, a baker's, in Lower Marsh—I gave him the shilling and he gave it me back again—I brought it back to Mrs. Stearne and gave it to her—I did not lose sight of it.
THOMPSON BONNETT . I am now a baker, but on 8th June last I was a police officer—the prisoner was given into my custody at Mrs. Stearne's—I asked him how he accounted for the half-crown, and he said at first that he won it at skittles at a public-house in Drury-lane, and he did not know it was bad—he was charged with passing the shilling on Friday, and he said that he was not in there at all on Friday, and afterwards he said he was and that another man gave a shilling at the same time—I took him
to the police-station and locked him up—on the Monday following he sent for me—I went to his cell and cautioned him that what he said would be used against him if it was anything about the case—he said, "A man sent me in with the half-crown and wanted me to get rid of some counterfeit sovereigns," and he said if he was at liberty he could put me on to a maker—he gave me a description of some man as the maker of the money—he said he thought his name was "Jack Divine," but he did not know where he lived—these are the half-crown and shilling (produced) which I got from Mrs. Stearne—the prisoner was searched and a two shilling piece, good money, found on him.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and LAW conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES PECKHAM . I am the landlord at the North Pole public-house, Greenwich—the prisoner came to my house about the first week in April; he called for a half-quartern of gin, which was 2 1/2 d.—I served him, and he put a half-sovereign across the counter into my hand—I detected it, and said directly, "This is a counterfeit"—he told me he did not know it, and took from his pocket a portonnaie containg nearly 20s. in silver—he took out a good sixpence to pay me—I have not got the half-sovereign—I kept it about two months, and cautioned all my neighbours, but I have lost it—there was no doubt about it's being a bad one—I showed it to a constable the same night.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you know the prisoner? A. I had never seen him before—he has not been to my house since—I did not test the half-sovereign in any way; but being used to take money I knew it was a counterfeit directly—the prisoner told me he was a window-sash maker, and gave me his address in Walworth-lane.
THOMAS HAGGER . I keep the Rose public-house at New Cross—on Saturday evening, 8th June, at a little after 9, the prisoner came in and asked for a pint of stout, which came to 4d.—I served him, and he gave me a half-crown in payment—I took it up, saw it was bad, and told him so, and then broke it in three pieces—the prisoner then made use of rather abusive language to me for suspecting him of dishonesty, and with great persuasion I let him go—I asked him if he had any more, and he pulled from his pocket some coppers and some silver—I took out a sixpence, and gave him 2d. change—I kept the pieces of the half-crown, and gave them on the Monday to the constable Snell.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. I never saw him, to my knowledge—the Rose is a well-known public-house, and frequented by very respectable people—policemen come there sometimes as customers—there is another public-house at some little distance from mine—the policeman has the half-crown.
MARY LUCKHURST . I am the wife of William Luckhurst, the landlord of the Amersham Arms, New Cross—that is about a quarter of a mile from the Rose public-house—on Saturday evening, 8th June, about 10 o'clock, the prisoner came in and asked for a half-quartern of gin and some water, which was 2 1/2 d.—he paid me with a bad half-crown—I bent it in the detector, told the prisoner it was bad, and gave it to my husband—he examined it, put it in the detector again, and bent it still more—I then saw him put it on a shelf in the bar—he told the prisoner it was bad, and he said he had taken
it in change for a half-sovereign—he paid for the gin and water in coppers, good money—my husband gave the half-crown to a constable on the Monday following—I should know it again; this is it (produced).
Cross-examined. Q. Did you put any mark on it? A. No; it is bent—I saw a once that it was bad—there were a great many people there at the time—I had never seen the prisoner there before—he said he had taken it at some public-house, I think—he did not say what public-house.
ROBERT SNELL (Policeman, R 132). On Saturday, 8th June, I was on duty in the New Cross-road, Deptford—Mr. Luckhurst spoke to me, and I took the prisoner into custody for passing bad money at the Amersham Arms—he was in front of the Amersham Arms—he did not appear to be drunk, because he ran away as soon as the other person said he had tendered another half-crown at the Rose—some man came up from the Rose, and said that he had watched him from the Rose down to where I had got him, and the prisoner then ran away—I ran after him, caught him, and took him into custody—he kicked me, and resisted very much—it took three or four of us to take him to the station—I there searched him, and found 13s. 11d., good money; one half-crown, a two-shilling piece, seven shillings, four sixpences, a fourpenny bit, and a penny—I produce three pieces of a half-crown which I got from Mr. Hagger.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and LAW conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZA WRANGHAM . I am the wife of Alfred John Wrangham, the land-lord of the Gregorian Arms, St. James's-place, Bermondsey—on Monday, 17th June last, the prisoners came to our house together, about 12 o'clock in the day—Williams asked for a quartern of gin and peppermint and gave me a bad shilling—I told her it was bad, and gave it her back again—she said she must have taken it in change of a half-sovereign on Sunday evening—the other prisoner then paid me 5d. in coppers—they then went away together—I am quite sure it was a bad shilling.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. I believe you had known Holmes before, had you not? A. Yes; as a resident in the neighbourhood—I had known her as a decent and respectable person—I never knew anything to the disadvantage of her character as an honest woman—I have known her six or seven years as a resident in the neighbourhood of Bermondsey—she is married, and her husband is a stoker or engineer on board a steamer—I know from my observation of her, that she was accustomed to go weekly to meet him on his return from his voyage—I had never seen Williams before—it was in consequence of my knowing Sarah Holmes to bear a respectable character that I returned the shilling—I don't know where she lives—I know where Cherry-gardens are; our house is about five minutes' walk from there—Holmes has some children—it was Williams who said she must have received it in change for a half-sovereign—Holmes was by her at the time—she had no child with her at that time.
JOSEPH WASS . I am landlord of the Admiral Hawk, Bermondsey—on Monday afternoon, about 2 o'clock, the prisoners came to my house together—my house is about a quarter of a mile from the Gregorian Arms—I served them with a quartern of gin and peppermint—Williams gave me a florin—
I put it in the till, and gave her the change—Holmes ha a child in her arms—there were no other florins in the till—after I gave Williams change, Holmes went out carrying her child—Williams remained at the bar—Holmes was away about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—when she came in, and I believe Williams again asked for another quartern of gin and peppermint—I served them, and Williams gave me a florin in payment—I examined it and found it was bad—I showed it to my barman—I then went to the till to examine the first one, and found that bad also—that was the only florin in the till—I said I thought it was a cash that a policeman ought to take them in charge—Holmes offered to pay me all the money in her pocket not to say anything about it—I saw the money; I believe it was four or fine sixpences—she said, "I will give you what money I have in my possession, if you will not lock her up, or go further in the proceeding"—Holmes also said that Williams got it in change for a half-sovereign—she did not call her by her name; no name or address was given—I gave them into custody, and gave the florins to the policeman.
Williams. Q. Was it not a shilling that I paid you with? A. No; a 2s. piece.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know the Cherry Tree-gardens? A. No; I am a stranger there; I have only been there seven weeks—when they came in first, Williams spoke to Holmes, and asked her what she would have—they consulted together—I believe Holmes said when she came in, "We will have another quartern of gin and peppermint"—I do not know whether she gave that answer to any question of Williams—that was after she went out—there were lots of children running about, outside—Holmes did not go to the door and speak to somebody outside—I did not observe that—we were very quiet then.
WILLIAM BROUGHTON . I am barman at the Admiral Hawk—I saw the prisoners there on Monday, 17th June—my master showed me two counterfeit florins—I examined them; they were bad—I did not hear anything said to the prisoners—I went out for a policeman, and he marked the florins.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the bar when these persons were served? A. Yes; I heard nothing that passed—I am quite sure of that—there was not much doing at that time.
EDWARD BURKE (Policeman, M 214). I took the prisoners on Monday, 17th June, and received these two counterfeit florins (produced) from last witness—the prisoners were searched by the female searcher—I have some good money which I got at the station—I was told that the female searcher left it there by the sergeant.
Williams' Defence, I gave him the 2s. piece, but I did not know it was bad.
Holmes received an excellent character.
WILLIAM— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
HOLMES— NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. POLAND and LAW conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN MEAD . I am the wife of John Mead, eating-house keeper, 28, Russell-street, Rotherhithe—on Monday, 17th June, the prisoner came here a little after 9 o'clock in the evening and asked for half a pound of roast pork—I cut it and weighed it on the scales—he threw down a 5s. piece—I took it between my fingers, and said, "What a strange looking 5s. piece"—he said, I am sure it is a good one; if you don't like it give
it me back and I can get it changed"—I said, "did not say t was a bad one'—I immediately went round the counter to call my husband, and when I stepped outside the door, the prisoner ran away directly—I had got the 5s. piece—I gave it to my husband and he ran after the prisoner—the prisoner was brought back in ten minutes or rather more, and he then said he never was in the shop before—I am quite positive he is the man.
Prisoner. You stated that you could swear by my hat, when I was brought back? Witness. I said he was the same man by his hat and appearance; but he was as pale as a sheet when he gave the 5s. piece, and he was as red as scarlet when he came back from running—I knew him by his voice—it did not alter his features—I said I knew him by his hat, voice, and general appearance—I had never seen him before to my knowledge—there was gas light—I am sure he is the person.
JOHN MEAD . I keep an eating-house at 28, Russell-street, Rotherhithe—on Monday, 17th June, the prisoner came—I heard him ask for some roast pork, and saw my wife cutting it—I then went outside and talked to the neighbours—in about a minute or so my wife spoke to me and I saw the prisoner come out of my door and run up the street—my wife gave me the 5s. piece and I ran after the prisoner and captured him—I saw him before t hat speak to another man, an accomplice of his—I passed them and then returned—they walked together about twenty or thirty yards—the prisoner went across on one side of the road and the other man on the other—I followed the other; I knew he had something to do with the prisoner, and as soon as the other one saw the policeman, he ran past me as hard as he could, and then he called out to the prisoner, but I do not know what it was; and then he ran away—the prisoner walked along the road and I kept my eye on him—I then took him and gave him into custody when the constable came—he was brought back to my house and charged with uttering a 5s. piece—he said he had never been at my house from the time he had knocked off work—I gave the 5s. piece to the constable.
Prisoner. Q. When you saw me and the other man part, you say we each ran different ways? A. When you came up to him you stopped and had some conversation with him, and then one ran one way and one another.
MR. POLAND. Q. From the time he left your house to the time he was given in charge to the constabe, did you lose sight of him? A. No, I did not.
WILLIAM IZATT (Policeman, M 187). I apprehended the prisoner on 17th June last, in Lower Queen-street, Rotherhithe—Mr. Mead gave him into my custody for uttering a bad 5s. piece—the prisoner said, "Do not take me"—he said, "You have made a mistake; I am going to fetch the doctor, my mother is very bad; expect her to die"—I took him to the prosecutor's shop, and he said that she was mistaken, he had never been there—Mr. Mead gave me this 5s. piece (produced)—I searched the prisoner, but found nothing on him—he Mused to tell me his address.
Prisoner's Defence. When the policeman came and took me I was walking steadily along the road, and if I had been a guilty man I should have run away; I am as innocent as a babe unborn.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. POLAND and LAW conducted the Prosecution.
Friday evening, 17th May lat, the prisoner came there and asked for a quartern of gin—she tendered me a bad half-crown—I told her it was bad, and went and told my master—I went for a policeman and gave the prisoner into custody, and gave the half-crown to the policeman.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I say I was not aware that it was bad? A. Yes; and that a gentleman gave it to you.
THOMAS REED (Policeman, M 69). The prisoner was given into my custody on 17th May last, by the last witness, when he gave me this half-crown (produced)—the prisoner gave the name of Mary Russell—I was present when she was brought up on 20th May at Southwark—she was remanded till the 22d and then discharged.
GEORGE NICHOLLS . I am a draper, and keep a shop in the Brixton-road—on 29th May last the prisoner came for some ribbon—I cut her a piece of the value of 4 1/2 d.—she gave me a bad half-crown—I sent for a constable, gave the prisoner in custody, and gave the constable the half-crown—she gave me the name of Margaret Cotter—I told her the half-crown was bad, and gave her every opportunity of clearing herself—she said a gentleman had given her two half-crowns, and she offered me a good one for the bad one—I asked her address, but she did not give it me.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I tell you where I lived? A. You said first No. 8, Brixton-road—I asked you who you were living with, and you said Mrs. Fudge—you then said you were living in a turning out of the Brixton-road.
GEORGE EASTWOOD . (Policeman, P 61). On 29th May, the prisoner was given in my custody by Mr. Nicholls, who gave me this half-crown (produced)—the prisoner said her name was Margaret Cotter, and that she lived at 11, Fore-street, Blackfriars-road—I went there next day, and found that she did live there—she gave me that address at the station—she was taken to Lambeth Police-court next day, remanded till Wednesday, 5th June, and then discharged, as that was the only case against her.
JOHN NICHOLSON . I am barman at the Duke of York, in the Blackfrians-road—on Friday, 21st June, the prisoner and another female came there between 7 and 8 in the evening—the prisoner asked for a quartern of the best gin—she gave me a florin—I saw it was bad, and asked her if she had got another the same—she said, "That is all the money I have about me"—she was given into custody—the other woman went down to the station-house, but was not locked up—I bent the florin with my teeth—it was afterwards given to the constable—I should know it again—this (produced) is the florin the prisoner gave me, and which I bent—I gave it to my sister, and she gave it to the officer—the gin was not paid for by either of them, but I would not let the other woman have her's.
PATRICK MEARA (Policeman, M 185). The prisoner was given into my custody on Friday, 21st June, by the landlord of the Duke of York public-house, who gave me a florin at the same time—the prisoner did not say anything to me—I did not ask her her name at that time—she did not give a name in my presence—at the station-house she gave the name of Ann Smith.
Prisoners Defence. I am an unfortunate woman. I was not aware it was bad. It was given to me when I was tipsy. I was not aware of either of them being bad.
GUILTY .**— Confined Eight Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
633. HARRIET HENRY (23) , Unlawfully and feloniously taking away Selina Eliza Foreman, a child under the age of ten years, with intent to deprive the parents of the possession of the said child. Other Counts for stealing and receiving 1 frock and other articles then being upon her person.
MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution
SARAH MARTHA FOREMAN . I am the wife of William Foreman, of 2, Yole's-place, Old Kent-road—on Tuesday, 7th May last, about a quarter to 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I sent my daughter, Mary Ann, with the baby, which was four months' old—she came back at about 5 o'clock without the baby—from information which was given to me, I went to 8, King-street, Deptford, on 12th May, and went into the first-floor back room, where I found the prisoner in possession of my baby—(I have been very ill)—I said, "You wretch, I wish I had my will of you"—she said, "It is not your baby"—I had looked immediately, and seen that it was my baby and told her so—she said, "It is not your baby," that it was her baby—I said, "If it is your baby you will never have it again from me"—the husband then said that he could prove that it was born at 8, Charlotte-place, Westminster, on the Monday evening before—the prisoner said, "You know nothing about it"—a policeman was there with me—I do not know that she made any statement to him about it—I noticed a napkin—I identified it at the station—it had my initials—these (produced) are the things my baby had on when I sent it out—this is the napkin, and this is the dress, but it has been picked to pieces—this is the pinafore, this is the shirt and petticoat, and this is the shawl—I am quite sure these are the things my child had on.
MARY ANN FOREMAN . I was sent out by my mother to mind the baby on this evening—in the Old Kent-road I was met by the prisoner—she said, "Do you know where the fair is?"—I said that I did not know—she said, "I will take the baby to rest your hands a minute"—she took the baby, and gave it to me back again—I went with her to the fair—she said, "I will give you a penny to go in the show; I will stop outside the door with the baby till you come out"—when I came out I did not find the baby—I am quite sure this is the woman.
COURT. Q. Did you first of all say that somebody else was the person who took the baby? A. Yes; that person was very much like the prisoner.
CAROLINE CHAPMAN . I live at 12, Russell-place, Dover-road On Tuesday, 2d May, I was in the Old Kent-road, and saw the prisoner talking to the, little girl—she said, "Do you know where the fair is?"—the girl said, "No, I don't know where the fair is"—she said, "Come with me," and took the baby out of her arms to relieve her, and then she gave it her back again at the shoe-shop. (The witness being unwell, her evidence was not proceeded with.)
MARY ANN JONES . I am the wife of John Jones, lodging at 8, Old King-street, Deptford—I know the prisoner, she lodged in the same house seven weeks—on Tuesday evening, 7th May, when she came home she was pre-tending to be very bad, about 6 o'clock—she said she was very bad, and the e landlady offered to send a midwife up to her—I live on the same floor as her—I did not go into her room just then, not till she came to my door—when I went into her room it was about 8 o'clock at night—I got in, and saw her lying a bed—I did not see a child—I saw her again next morning—I went and knocked at her door, and asked her how she was, and she said that the was better—I went into the room and saw the baby—I asked to look at it and did so; and I asked her if she thought I was a fool, the mother of a family, to think that that was a new-born baby—I said, "This child is from two to three months old"—she told me that she would tell me the truth, that she was married on the 9th November, and was pregnant
when she was married; and had been married three days when she went away, and was confined of this baby in the union; and her husband had found out where she was, and asked her if she would go home, and she said, "Yes, I will follow you," and that she went to her mother-in-law, and asked if she would take the baby; and she came home with the baby on the Tuesday to make her husband believe she was confined of the baby on the Monday night—when she came home on the Tuesday, she said to me, "Here is a little shawl for your little girl to go to school in;" and then afterwards when I saw the child, I gave it her back, saying, that it would be useful to her—I did not know anything about the shawl till Mrs. Foreman described what sort of shawl she had on—it was between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening that she gave it to me—she came home about 6.
Prisoner. Q. When I came, what was my reply about the child? A. You told me not to come into your room—when this child was brought in it was brought in like a bundle of rags—I did not know the child was not yours; how could I know it?
JOHN BEAN (Policeman, E 272). On 12th May, between 7 and 8 o'clock, I went with the prosecutrix to the prisoner's room—I went to No. 8, Old King-street—the prosecutrix had knocked at the door, and I went in as soon as the door was opened, followed by the prosecutrix—I went to the back-room on the first-floor, and saw the prisoner nursing a child—I said to the prosecutrix, "Is this your child?"—she snatched the child out of the prisoner's hand—I told the prisoner she would have to go to the station with me, on a charge of stealing this child—she said that she had not stolen it, it was her child; that she was confined on the Monday before—the husband said he could prove she was confined on that day, at 8, Charlotte's-place, Westminster, and that she was brought home in a cab on the Tuesday afternoon—I took her to the station—she said nothing there.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows; "I received the baby from a short woman, in the London-road, who was going about a place; I waited about half an hour, and then I took it home, and told my husband I had been confined.")
COURT to JOHN BEAN. Q. How does she get her living? A. Her husband gets his living by hawking shrimps—I do not know anything about her being about the streets begging.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. LILLEY and HOWARD conducted the Prosecution.
PHILIP POWTER . I live at 97, Waterloo-road, and carry on business at 63, Lower Marsh, Lambeth—before 1st March last year I resided with my wife at the Dining-rooms in Lower Marsh, and let out the house in the Waterloo-road in apartments—the prisoner was one of the persons who lodged in that house—on 1st March I went there myself to live—the pri-soner assisted in removing my furniture—a day or two afterwards I was in-formed of something by my little daughter Eliza, in consequence of which I spoke to my wife about the 8th or 9th—the prisoner was not present—when I left the dining-rooms on 1st March I let them to a man named Crockford—he remained there ten weeks, and then I resumed possession—on 16th May I took the prisoner into my service as a waiter—on 5th June I had a conversation with him, in consequence of having heard some reports—I said I heard he had been robbing me, and likewise carrying on an improper inter-course with my wife—I asked him to have his box searched, and it was
searched accordingly—it was just looked into—I looked into it—the prisoner was there, and another young man named Osborn, with an officer, I do not know his name—in the box was found a box, an apron, a shirt, and two collars belonging to me, and the duplicate of a ring; nothing else—soon after that the prisoner left the house and never returned—my wife left the private house the same day—on the afternoon of that same day, the 5th, I found another box on the second-floor, under the bed—that was not the prisoner's room; it was occupied by lodgers—in that box I found about fifty different articles, brooches, rings, gowns, aprons, towels, a blanket, a chemise, a good many articles of female apparel, ornaments, necklaces, watch keys, and so on—there was a scarf, a neck tie, and a handkerchief belonging to the prisoner, and about eight duplicates relating to five rings, a blanket, two shawls, and one shawl—I have seen the property they refer to, at the pawnbroker's—some letters were also found in the box—these (produced) are some of them—three are in my wife's writing, and some in the prisoner's; but that I cannot swear to—on 8th June the prisoner's box was opened in the presence of a constable—that was the box which the prisoner had shown me on 5th June—we found in it an apron, a shirt, and other things—the constable opened the box with a key that he had, and found all these articles in my presence, and two duplicates, besides the two I had found before.
Prisoner. Q. When my box was first searched, you did not own anything as belonging to you? A. We did not look sufficient; and I was so excited at the time; and you locked it and went away, and it was not unlocked again—I told you to go out of my house as soon as you could.
COURT. Q. Was the second box shown to the prisoner on the 8th? A. No.
MR. LILLEY. Q. You say you saw a box on the 5th? A. Yes; I saw that same box again on the 8th—the constable examined both boxes there.
THOMAS HENRY BRIGGS . I live in Arbour-street, Stepney—I was in the prosecutor's employ for two or three weeks, up to 5th June—I saw a box brought to the house—the prisoner took it in—I assisted him in taking it to his own room on the first floor—two or three hours after it had arrived he asked me to help him up-stairs with it, and I assisted him with it up to the second-floor back room—it was heavier then—when I took it up to the first floor it was empty and unlocked; when I took it up to the second-floor it was locked—I believe the box was paid for before it arrived, except a few half-pence, and those the prisoner paid—I saw Mrs. Powter give the money to the prisoner before the box was fetched—first of all she gave me 3s. to go and buy a box—I could not get one, and I came back, and gave the 3s. to the prisoner, and the mistress gave him some more to go out and buy one—she said, "Go and see if you can get one"—he went out, and after that the box was brought as I have mentioned—this is very much like the box—I pointed out the box to Mr. Powter in the second-floor back-room where I had left it.
Prisoner. Q. Was your mistress in the house when the box was up-stairs? A. Yes—she was backwards and forwards two or three times—she was up stairs part of the time with you.
MARY ANN SELL . I am the wife of Thomas Sell, of Canrobert-street, Bethnal-green—the prisoner came to live at our house about a month last Saturday—he came with Mrs. Powter—they took the apartments together, and lived there a fortnight and two days—they occupied the same room, and lived together as man and wife—they lived there until the prisoner was taken away by the constable on 24th June—I did not know at the time that it was Mrs. Powter, I have ascertained that since.
PHILIP POWTER (re-examined). I saw my wife in the presence of Mrs. Sell, at her house—this photograph was found in the box with the letters and other things—they are likenesses of the prisoner and my wife.
JOSEPH JONES (Policeman, L 151).—On 8th June, from information given to me by the prosecutor, I examined a box which he produced, at the dining-rooms—it was brought down to me in the shop—I directed Mr. Powter to bring it to the private house in the Waterloo-road, which he did—that was the box in which the two or three things were found—I also saw another box, the one produced—I searched it, and found various articles of apparel, male and female, chiefly female—there was a man's scarf and handkerchief—in the other box I found a pocket-book, a shirt, an apron, two collars, and two duplicates—the prisoner had then absconded—I unlocked the box with some keys that were obtained from a neighbour—the letters and photograph were found in the box produced—I took the prisoner into custody on the 24th—I forced open the door, and found the prisoner's wife in bed, and the prisoner had just got out of bed—he had one leg in his trousers—I told him I was a police-officer, and he must consider himself in custody for absconding from 63, Lower Marsh, with property belonging to his employer—he made no reply.
MARY ANN JORDON . I am a widow living in the Waterloo-road—I know the prisoner's handwriting—I have seen him write—I believe these letters (produced) to be in his writing—at one time I had apartments at 97, Waterloo-road, at the time the prisoner was lodging there—he first came to lodge there about a month before Christmas—Mrs. Powter came to live there some time after Christmas—I left a day or two after she came—I afterwards went to the house every morning to do the work for Mrs. Powter—I saw the prisoner there every morning, sometimes in the kitchen, sometimes in the parlour, and sometimes in the passage, as I was going out—I left directly I had done my work, and left him there—I was there sometimes for an hour and a half, and sometimes less—some mornings Mrs. Powter told me I was not wanted—when the prisoner was there she would not allow me to go in—I have several times seen the prisoner go into the house when I have been sent away—I have seen him go to the house twice a day, and sometimes three times—I gave some information to Mr. Powter—I do not recollect what month that was in—it was the morning before Mrs. Powter went away. I once met the prisoner in the street, and asked him if he was not ashamed of himself, hanging about Mr. Powter's house, and taking his wife away from her children—he said he could do as he liked about that, and I could do the same, why could not I go and get a married man, as well as he get a married woman—he used rather rough language—that was about three weeks before Mrs. Powter had left her husband—from the time Mrs. Powter went to the Waterloo-road, and up to that time, I had seen the prisoner going there from time to time, and in the house.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me go into the house every day? A. Every day, and plenty in the neighbourhood saw you.
MR. LILLEY. Q. At the time you saw him go in, do you know how Mr. Powter was employed. A. He was at his business at the eating-house.
(Several letters passing between the prosecutor's wife and the prisoner were put in and read, in which they addressed each other as "My dearest Harry," and "My dear Jane," and showing the most intimate connation between them.)
T. H. BRIGGS (re-examined). I first of all took the box into the prisoner's
room—it was about three hours afterwards that I assisted to take it up stairs—my mistress had been backwards and forwards during those three hours—the prisoner was up stairs part of the time, and part of the time downstairs—as I was taking it up stairs I asked if the box was locked, and he said yes, and he had got the key in his pocket—he did not say anything about what was in the box.
THE RECORDER was of opinion that, as regarded the contents of the second box, it was not sufficiently brought within the prisoner's possession to make him responsible.
JAMES HOBBS . I am shopman to Mr. Wharton, a pawnbroker of Mount-street, Westminster-road—I produce five rings and a pair of earrings pledged on 6th May, by a young man—I have looked at prisoner, and from what I can remember of the person, I should say it was not him—this is the ticket I gave to the person pledging the property.
Prisoner's Defence. I am quite innocent of the crime laid against me—the box I never had anything to do with, nor yet the jewellery.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, AUGUST 19TH, 1861.