CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT
TENTH SESSION, HELD AUGUST 13TH, 1860.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY
JAMES DROVER BARNETT
Short-hand writers to the court,
ROLLS CHAMBERS, No. 89, CHANCERY LANE.
THE POINTS OF LAW AND PRACTICE,
REVISED AND EDITED BY
ROBERT ORRIDGE, ESQ.
OF THE MIDDLE TEMPLE, BABRISTER-AT-LAW.
BUTTERWORTHS, 7, FLEET STREET.
Law Puslishers to the Queen's most Excellent majesty
On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,
OYER AND TERMINER AND GAOL DELIVERY,
The City of London
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, August 13th, 1860, and following days.
BEFORE the Right Honourable JOHN CARTER , F.A.S. and F.R.A.S. Lord Mayor of the City of London; Sir Edward Vaughan Williams, Knt. one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir James Shaw Willes, Knt. one other of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir Peter Laurie, Knt.; Thomas Sidney, Esq. M.P.; Thomas Quested Finnis, Esq.; Sir Robert Walter Carden, Knt. M.P.; Aldermen of the said City; Russell Gurney, Esq., Q.C., Recorder of the said City; Warren Stormes Hale, Esq.; Edward Conder, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City; and Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. Judge of the Sheriff's Court of the said City; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
THOMAS GABRIEL, Esq. Ald.
OCTAVIUS CHAPMAN TRYON EAGLETON, Esq.
CHARLES GAMMON, Esq.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have hem previously in custody—two start (**) mat they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES,
OLD COURT—Monday, August 13th, 1860.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; SIR ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt. Ald. M.P.; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. HALE; Mr. Ald. CONDER, and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Mr. Recorder.
665. DAVID WELLS (42), CHARLES WELLS (20), RICHARD LAMB (17), EDWARD WILSON (18), and HENRY JONES (20) were indicted for unlawfully obtaining a security for the payment of 2l., 19s. of Paul Millaret by false pretences. Other Counts for a conspiracy.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY and MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY GREATHURST (Policeman G 209). On Tuesday, 19th June, between 7 and 8 in the morning, I was in St. John-etreet-road—I saw a coal-van there, loaded with two tons of coal, twenty sacks—it stopped at the corner of Rawstorne-street, and another van came up to the side of it, containing coke—I there saw the prisoner Lamb throw five empty sacks out of the coke-van on the top of the coal-van, and then drive off—Charles Wells and Wilson were with the coal-van at that time—I followed them to 10 Myddleton-square, the residence of Mr. Millaret—on arriving there Wells knocked at the door or rang the bell; the door was answered, and he went in—I then saw the iron plate shoved up—five empty sacks were then placed down alongside the wheel of the coalwaggon, one over the other; the men then commenced shooting the coal out of the van—they shot down fifteen sacks; after that they delivered the coke—the coke-van went with the coal-van—they shot some of the coke I believe—the servant came out first and counted the coal-sacks—Wilson and Lamb counted up twent sacks, she looking on—they the unloaded the coke, counted the sacks, and then went in and had some beer, and then left the house—I told anther constable to watch the van, and not to lose sight of it—I went to the house, had some communication with Mr. Millaret, and then went after the van—I found it at the bottom of Rosoman-street—I afterwards went to David wells, in King-street, Compton-street—in going there I asked Wilson where he was going with the coals he had got in the
van; he said he was going to the Great Northern Railway—he had then five sacks in the van; I said, "What, draw coals to Newcastle?"—I then said, "Have you not been to Myddleton-square this morning?" he said, "Yes,"—I asked him how many coals he had left there, he said, "Two tons"—I asked him whether that was twenty sacks—he said he did not know, he was not the carman; I asked him who was; he said, "Charles Wells,"—I asked him where they had gone, he said they had gone to King-street, Compton-street, with the other van—I asked him if he was sure there was twenty sacks shot; he said, "No, there were only fifteen"—I then left him in custody of the other constable, and went to David Wells' house; it is a coal-shed and greengrocer's shop—I found him at home; I asked him where his son was, he said he was in the back—at that time Charles Wells came from the back of the house—I told him he had been to Myddleton-square that morning, and there was fifteen sacks shot instead of twenty, and he must go back with me to the gentleman's in Myddleton-square—he said there were two tons shot—I then took them back to Mr. Millaret—David Wells went with us; I asked him where Lamb was, he said he was round at the stable—going along to Mr. Millaret's, or before I left the shop, I told David Wells I believed that the younger prisoners would be charged with stealing five sacks of coals; he said he hoped not—when we reached Mr. Millaret's, I, David Wells and Charles Wells went in, leaving Lamb and Wilson outside—we had a conversation about the five sacks and David Wells begged Mr. Millaret not to prosecute them; he said, "If you do not prosecute them, I will make you a present of one or two ton of coals, or anything you may wish"—Mr. Millaret said he would not be robbed in that manner—I then took them to the station—David Wells went with Mr. Millaret one way, and I took the other prisoners the other—I believe we got to the station first—David Wells came there afterwards and claimed the vans and horses—I searched Wilson and found this ticket in his pocket—something was said about there being no name on the coal-van; David Wells heard that conversation, and he said there was a name—I searched, and after some time I found the name of William Lee, Mark-lane, City; and on the coke-van I found, "Great Northern Coal Company, Kings' Cross Depdt;" I found no name of any owner on it—Charles Wells, Lamb, and Wilson were afterwards brought before the Magistrate—David Wells then made an application for the vans and horses, and the sacks; he also asked for this coal-ticket (produced)—on that occasion the Magistrate asked for Mr. Millaret's cheque; Wells said he had got it at home—the Magistrate ordered me to give back the vans and horses to David Wells on the condition that he gave back the cheque to Mr. Millaret—the cheque was received at the station, I was not present—Sergeant Baldock gave up the vans to David Wells—I have been to 59 Mark-lane—there had been a coal office there, I found none when I went—at David Wells' house I found two large boards on each side of the house with, "Great Northern Coal Company Office" written upon them—on 27th I took Jones into custody; on searching him I found this pocket-book, and these two bills (produced)—there are a number of orders in the book, apparently given to him from different persons—the bills are headed, "Dr. to H. Clarke."
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH (for David and Charles Wells.) Q. David Wells was not taken in custody at all on the first occasion, was he? A. No; he appeared next day before the Magistrate on a summons to answer the charge—the other prisoners were examined or remanded, before David Wells was summoned at all—he appeared in answer to the summons, and claimed the horses and vans—nobody put rue in motion in this matter;
I had had no communication made to me before I went to Myddleton-squre—I had not seen the board up at David Wells' before this—when I went there after I had been to Myddleton-square, he did not say, "What is the matter, what is all this about?" and I did not say to him, "I will let you know when I have been back to Myddleton-square, and not before;" nothing of the kind—when I asked him where Charles Wells was, he said, "What is all this about?" and I told him I could not tell him.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD (for Lamb). Q. Where were you standing when you first saw the coals unloaded? A At the comer of Myddletonsquare, the corner against Upper Chadwell-street—I was standing at the corner of the green enclosure; that would be about opposite No. 19 or 20—I was not standing there when the van drove up—I found the van there; I was following it up Chadwell-street—I first saw the van in St. John-street-road at the corner of Rawstorne-street; I was on duty there—I followed the van; I had my suspicions; from the sacks being delivered from one van into the other—it was the ordinary course of my beat all round there—I believe there was some of the coke taken into the house—I was at one time under a different impression—I might have changed my mind the same day, on looking at the coals below—I was examined before the Magistrate after I had seen the coals—I was then under the impression that no sacks had been brought into the house—I went there the same afternoon to see the quality of the coal that was delivered—I could tell some had been brought into the house by the way they were heaped up in the cellar; the coal was completely hidden by the coke, it was on the top of it—I do not think they could shoot them all down the hole—I saw all the coals shot, and the sacks counted, but I might have turned round while the coke was being delivered; I cannot be positive as to that—I am sure no coals were brought into the house—I did not turn my head when the coals were being delivered; I was watching the coals particularly—the servant told me the coke had been brought into the house; that caused me to change my mind—before she told me that, I thought and said that none had been brought into the house.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY (for Wilson). Q. You say you were standing at the corner; was that corner distant from the house somewhere about from sixty to a hundred yards? A. About sixty-six yards; I have stepped it—before any delivery took place, the iron plate in the pavement was lifted up, I saw that—when the coals were delivered, Lamb and Wilson were on the van—the coals were not carried on their shoulders, they were shot out of the tail of the van down on to the hole, the bottom of the sack rested on the van—Wilson did not tell me at any time that he had been fetched to that job by Lamb early that morning—I am quite sure I found the ticket on Wilson—I did not find it on one of the others—I do not say it was on Wilson because his name appears to be on it; I undertake to say positively that I found it on Wilson, and not on Wells—I know the ticket by the name on the front of it; I know nothing of the marks on the back—when I first saw them, Wilson was riding by the side of Wells.
Cross-examined by MR. ERNEST JONES (for Jones). Q. Have you before to-day produced that pocket-book and bill that you found on Jones? A. Yes; it was produced to the Magistrate—I cannot recollect whether I produced it or not.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are you quite sure you found that book on Jones? A. I did, and this blank paper headed," Great Northern Coal Company"—there is "Wilson, carman" on that—I am positive I took this paper
from Wilson—it was Lamb who handed the five sacks from the coke-van to the coal-van in St. John-street—they were thrown on the top—Wilson and Charles Wells were then on the coal-van—I am positive only fifteen sacks were delivered—there were twenty sacks in the van when I first saw it in Rawstorne-street—after they had delivered the coals at Mr. Millaret's, they took away twenty-five sacks, that is, twenty empty and five full ones.
PAUL MILLARET . I am a watchmaker at 10, Myddleton-square—just before 19th June, Jones called on me—he said he had come from the Great Northern Coal Company, and he requested me to give him an order for some coals, and I did give him one for two tons of cdals, and one chaldron of coke—I asked him, "What Company, what agent?" and he said, "Mr. Clarke;"it was then I gave him the order—I think I had once before given an order to the Great Northern Coal Company—I believed the statement that Jones made to me; if I had not believed the statement, I should not have given the order—that was all that passed between us—on the 18th, the coals came and were not delivered, because the coke was not with them—on the morning of the 19th, I was told by the servant that the coals and coke had come—I was up stairs, I saw nothing of the delivery of the coals myself—after the delivery, I told Charles Wells I would settle his account; I gave him a cheque for it—the servant brought me the bill; this is it (produced)—I gave this cheque for 2l. 19s.—this stamp, "Paid, W. Smith, 2l. 19s."was on when the bill was handed to me—(This was headed, "Great Northern Coal Company, King's Cross, H. Clarke, seller," and the receipt was, "Received, pro H. Clarke, paid, W. Smith, 2l. 19s.)"—The policeman came to me and told me something, and afterwards David Wells, his son, and the two carmen came back to my place—I said I should prosecute them; I was aghast, I said it was a rascally trick—before I said that I don't think I had mentioned in the presence of David Wells what the trick was, or what had been said about it—he begged me not to prosecute them; he said he would give me anything I liked, he would give me any quantity of coal I liked—I said I did not want his coal—a few words were exchanged, and they went to the station—I afterwards received back this cheque, Wells himself brought it to me—that was after he had been before the Magistrate—he did not say anything when he brought it.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You ordered two tons I believe? A. Yes; I had ordered as large a quantity as that before—my cellar would hold that and I should say more; I can't say how much more—I don't believe I looked in the cellar after I saw the policeman—there was a chaldron of coke sent—when I spoke to David Wells there was no complaint that I had not got as much coals as I ought; I don't think I made any remark at all—I have ordered coals from different places—I had heard of the Great Northern Coal Company supplying good coal, and I thought I should be supplied better than elsewhere—I thought I was dealing with a company calling themselves the Great Northern Coal Company—when Jones came I said, "What is the price of the coal?" and he told me 22s., and that was what I ordered.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When you asked the prisoner Jones who was the agent, and he said Clarke; did you at that time know that Mr. Clarke was the agent of the Great Northern Railway for the sale of coals? A. Yes.
Jones. Q. Did he mention Mr. Clarke's Christian name? A. No.
HANNAH SIMMONDS . I am servant to Mr. Millaret—On the morning of 18th June some coals came to my master's house—Charles Wells, Lamb, and Wilson came with them—no coke came on that occasion—the next morning the same persons came bringing coal and coke—Wells came into the house; I
believe be opened the grating—I was down stairs in the kitchen when the coals were shot in—after they were shot I went up stairs, went to the door, and asked them if they had put the coals down—they said "Yes, will you see the sacks counted?"—I do not know which one it was said that; it was one of the two who stood at the door, I think it was Lamb—they both counted the sacks—they counted twenty, and I went in—after that the coke was delivered—a day or two afterwards Mr. Dix came from, the Company—he examined the coals that had been delivered and took away a sample of them.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you see him take the sample? A. Yes—the cellar was not empty when those coals came—I should say there was a ton of coals in it; I don't know where they had come from—I was at home when the men came the night before to deliver the coals—they stayed an hour and a half, but master was not at home—they would not leave them without the money and I could not take them in—I saw the coals in the van on that occasion, but I did not count the sacks—they had been before that; about 3 o'clock the same afternoon—my master was at home then but they were not delivered, because they had not brought the coke—I did not watch the delivery of the coals, I was down stairs—some of the sacks of coke were brought into the house and through the kitchen—Wells told me they were going to put the coke down; he said they could not bring it all through the house, as master wished—that was said when they were putting the coal down—I am quite sure they did not bring any coal through the house; they only brought three sacks of coke through, and that was after the coal-sacks had been counted to me, I am quite sure of that—I did not count the coke-sacks.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you observe how many cokesacks there were? A No; they emptied all that they had in the coke-van.
GEORGE VICKKERS (Policeman, G 87). I was requested by Greathurst to watch the vans; I ultimately took Charles Wells into cuptody—I found on him this invoice (Read: "Great Northern Railway Company, depot. King's Cross; 19th June. Mr. Gompertz debtor to H. Clarke, one ton Silkstone received, pro H. Clarke")—I also found on him this ticket for two tons of Elseca coals, which the father afterwards claimed.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. About what time was it that Greathurst spoke to you? A. About ten minutes to nine in the morning; he had not spoken to me about it over-night—he did not tell me how he came to be watching until he saw me in the square—he did not tell me who had desired him to watch, or who put him in motion in this matter—I did not know.
SUSANNAH KIRK . I am the wife of Thomas Kirk, of Brett's-buildings, High-street, Camberwell, butcher—I do not know Jones—he is very like the young man that called for orders—I believe he has called on me for an order for coals—I afterwards received this invoice of June 21st, 1860, (marked G)—I did not pay it, my husband paid it—there was simply an order for coals when Jones called.
Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. You cannot be certain that the prisoner was the person who called on you? A. No.
WILLIAM STURGE . I am a coal-merchant, carrying on business at Bridge-wharf, City-road, the Great Western Railway and the Midland Railway—I have carried on business rather more than ten years—my father was a coal-merchant—the name of our firm is Edward and William Sturge—Mr. Lee is not a partner of ours—he is a gentleman of respectability in the coaltrade—I cannot say that I know any of the prisoners.
(MR. GIFFARD objected to this evidence as irrelevant and not applicable to any of the Counts in the indictment. The Recorder was of opinion that it wat irrelevant.)
SOPHIA COHEN . I reside with Mrs. Gompertz, who lives at 37, Keppelstreet—I recollect the prisoner Jones's face—I saw him once—he asked for an order for coal, and we gave him the order—he did not say where he came from.
Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. You say you saw Jones once? A. Yes; I recollect his face—I recollect seeing him once, I don't think I saw him any more—people came often for orders, but I cannot say that it was he or not—I cannot swear that Jones was the man.
PAULINA ABRAHAMS . I am servant to Mrs. Gompertz—I remember, one Wednesday some coals being delivered at my mistress's—Charles Wells came with them, and Wilson, I believe—Wells gave me this bill—he said he came from the Great Northern Railway—(bill read: "Great Northern Railway Coal Company—Depot, King's Cross. Mrs. Gompertz, debtor to H. Clarke; 20th June, 1860.—Silkstone, 20s.")
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How many persons altogether did you see? A. Two; Charles Wells and Wilson.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Had you ever seen either of the men who came on that occasion, before that day? A. No—I afterwards saw them in custody at the police-court—it was in June, I believe—I can't recollect how long ago it was.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are you quite sure that the two you pointed out delivered the coals to you? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. You say that Wells said he came from the Great Northern Railway; was Wilson with him at that time? A. Yes; Wilson was putting in the coals—he was engaged with the coals at the time.
HENRY GREATHURST (re-examined.) The book I found on Jones consists of loose papers folded in the form of a book—here is an entry, "Mrs. Gompertz, 37, Keppel-street, Russell-square, one ton Silkstone, 18s.;" also "F. Sowton, two tons, 20s., 76, Harley-street:" "Mr. Grove, five tons of best Wallsend, 22s.; 46, Upper Harley-street;" "Mr. Anderson, six tons, N. Chambers; 24, Nottingham-place, New-road."
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you saw David Wells at the shop, did not he tell you that he was in the habit of hiring out his waggon to different persons, and that he had nothing to do with their transactions with coals? A. He said his waggons stood there for hire, he did not say he was in the habit of hiring them out—he did not say he knew nothing of this transaction.
HARRIETT NEWEY . I am in the service of Mr. Sowton, 76, Upper Harley-street—I have seen Jones there—I do not know the date, but it was in July; he called for orders for coals—I asked him for a card, and he said he had not got one with him, but he would bring one the next time he came, and he wrote on a piece of paper, "H. Clarke,"—I destroyed that—he also wrote the price of the coals on it, 22s. and 20s., I think it was—I was not present when the coals were delivered after that.
JAMES JUDD . I am porter to Mr. Sowton, 76, Harley-street—I remember some coals being delivered at our house—they were not brought by either of the prisoners—I received this ticket with them—I did not receive it from either of the prisoners—I saw Jones when he called—I answer the bell till one o'clock, and the housemaid afterwards.
Harley-street—I know Jones; he came to ask for an invoice—some coals had been delivered at Mr. Grove's before that, and Jones came and said the invoice was not in the regular way, and I went to my master—he took the invoice, came down, and wrote on the invoice—I gave it to Jones—I think he wrote the first in pencil and afterwards in ink—he wrote something else with ink, but I do not know what it was.
Cross-examined by MR. JONES. Q. How long have you left Mr. Grove? A. Three weeks—I left because they have left for Paris and do not want a servant—I went and opened the door myself when Jones called—I am certain that he was the man I let in—I gave the invoice to him.
ESTHER HAYWOOD . In June last I was kitchen-maid to Mr. Grove, 46, Upper Harley-street—I remember the day of the review, 23d June—I saw some coals delivered on that day; I did not see any invoice delivered with them—I showed the men to the cellar—I could not speak to the men—they were put all in one cellar—the coals in use at that time were in another—a gentleman called afterwards; I showed him the cellar in which those coals were placed.
RICHARD STONE . I am coachman to Mr. Anderson, 34, Nottingham-place, Marylebone—on Saturday, 23d June, six tons of coals were delivered at that house by the prisoners Wilson and Charles Wells—Jane Ridley is a cook in my master's service—I was not present when she paid a cheque to any one—I did not receive any bill, they simply delivered the coals.
JANE RIDLEY . I am cook in this establishment—I cannot speak confidently that I received this bill, but I received a cheque from my master to pay for the coals—I put it on the kitchen table—I did not see my master write on it before he brought it to me—he brought it to me in the kitchen—I did not have this bill.
MARIE BAYER . I am wife of Mr. Philip Bayer, 16, Half Moon-street, Piccadilly—I remember Jones calling on me in April last for an order for coals—he said he came from the Great Northern Coal Company, and asked me if I wished to have some coals—he did not say anything as to the quality or kind of coal—I told him that I was supplied with coals—I did not see him at any time afterwards—I received some coals a short time after; I can't say exactly what day—my husband had ordered them—I was not present when he ordered them—my husband received this invoice—he is in Germany.
JOSEPH HIRD . I am coal clerk at the Great Northern Railway Company's Coal depdt, at King's Cross—persons in trade buying coals at that depdt purchase them of me—I give them what is called a loading order—Willcox, my assistant, issues orders when I am busy—on 18th June I sold a ton of Elseca coals to a person of the name of Wells—this (produced) is the order I made out—it is for Elseca, No. 2; they are 14s. per ton—I gave the person this ticket, No. 179.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you manage the coal business at the King's Cross station? A. I am the dealers'clerk; I sell coals to dealers and merchants or any person who comes with a horse and cart and fetches them away—very few persons come unless they belong to the trade—I do not know whether the Great Northern Kail way Company deal in coals; it is their station—Mr. Herbert Clarke is the agent; he is my master—I am not aware that the Company send out men to sell coals without a previous order; I am sure we do not do so—I never heard of such a thing being done—I have been in the employment over six years and in the same department—when coals are ordered I have nothing to do with the selection of the quality; I give
the order; which is taken first to the weigh-bridge, and then to the inspector to see the cart loaded—There is a person named Bowen—he has nothing to do with the selection of the coals; he contracts to load the coals—he has nothing to do with Elseca or other coals—it is the inspector's duty to direct what kind of coals are to be loaded—there are separate bays for the different coals—we have not any Wallsend—Wallsend are loaded there, but they are not our coals, they are stored there for sale; they are kept separate—Mr. Saunders superintends the keeping of them separate—I know the prices of the different coals—there are some Wallsend better than others—I can't say that any are bad—there are two qualities of Elseca—Wallsend would, at any time, fetch a higher price than the beet Elseca—the worst Silkstone I know of is better than the best Elseca—Hartley is a different kind of coal; it is a farnace coal used by bakers.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I suppose you cannot speak accurately as to the different qualities of coal? A. No—I know the prices I am required to sell by—Mr. Diz is one of our inspectors, he understands the quality of the coal.
REUBEN WILCOX . I am a clerk at the Great Northern Railway Coal depôt—on 18th June I sold to David Wells two tons of Elseca best, and two tons of Elseca No. 2—I gave him these tickets; they are in my handwriting—on the same day I sold some to another person, who I do not see here—he was a younger man; he came in before David Wells went out, and he spoke to him—I cannot say what he said—I gave him this ticket,
WILLIAM THOMAS MURRAY . I am clerk at the weigh-bridge at the Great Northern Coal depôt—I receive tickets for coals from the purchasers, weigh their empty vans, put the weight to the tickets, and return them to the parties—they then go to the coal depôt and present the ticket to the loading inspector—I remember one day a waggon coming with the name of Lee upon it—I know the prisoners Wells—I cannot speak to their having received any coals—I see my initials on this ticket, No. 173—that indicates my authority to somebody for their van to be loaded with coals.
THOMAS NEWTON . I am loading inspector at the Great Northern Coal depôt—when any one brings a coal-ticket I order the vans to be loaded, and see them loaded—we keep the tickets and book them, and give them up to the weigh-bridge officer—I see a mark on this ticket, 173, which tells me that I saw these coals loaded—I cannot tell into what van they were loaded.
WILLIAM DIX . I am a coal inspector in the employ of the Great Northern Railway Company—I understand the different qualities of coal and their prices—I went to Mr. Millaret's, 10, Myddleton-square, and examined some coal there—they were what is termed Elseca No. 2—the price of the best Wallsend at that time was 21s. per ton to dealers—I afterwards went to Mrs. Gompertz, in Keppel-street, and examined some coal there; it was Elseca No. 2; that is a refuse coal which is generally used for steam engines, furnaces, or anything of that description—it requires a very great blast to make it burn—Silkstone coal at that time was, I believe, about 19s. per ton to dealers—the paper I am referring to is the report I made upon examining the coals—I also went to Mr. Kirk, 2, Bretts-buildings, Walworth-road—(The Court intimated that there was no evidence to go to the Jury upon this charge, or upon those referring to the case of Sowton, Groves, or Anderson.)
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You say you are acquainted with the qualities of coals; do you mean as they come from the pit, or as they are afterwards mixed? A. As they come from the pits in trucks to the stations—I have no knowledge of the places where the coal is raised; I judge of it from its appearance and the burning—the Elseca, No. 2, is only
a refuse from the Elaeca best; it is not used as an ordinary house coal—I have nothing to do with the selection of coal, merely in passing an opinion as to what coals they are if they come up without tickets, but we are not allowed to shoot any coal till we get the invoices from the pit.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY Q. How long have you had experience of the nature and quality of coal? A. I have been in the coal-trade myself about twentyfour years.
HERBERT CLARKE . I am the manager of the coal depot, and am the consignee of the greater part of the coal that comes up by railway—I have the management of the coal that is consigned to me—I have never employed Jones or given him any authority to sell coals for me as an agent, or in my name, or in the name of the Great Northern Railway—I know none of the prisoners by sight.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. A great many of the names of the coals are merely conventional names, are they not; for instance, Wallsend coals do not come from any particular pit? A. I am the consignee of no Wallsend coal—it is a conventional name; a good deal of coal is called Wallsend that is not Wallsend—I was once the consignee of Lambton coals—the Great Northern Company does not deal in coal—the coal I sell I sell in my own name, not in the name of the Great Northern Company—I do not carry on business under the name of the Great Northern Railway Coal Company—I have sold Wallsend coal—it is possible that when a customer has ordered Wallsend coals I may have sent him different qualities mixed together;—we used to sell it as Lambton or Adelaide Tees, but I will not say that when we have been short, Adelaide Tees and Wallsend may not have been mixed—I did not communicate the fact of the mixture to the customer, because they were both Wallsend—the origin of the term Wallsend was coal that was found nearest the old Roman wall—I am not aware that it applied to a particular pit—Silkstone comes from a different part of the world—I have not had a mixture of Silkstone and Yorkshire given to a customer as Wallsend—I am sure of that—I may have been asked on the subject before in this court, perhaps—some years ago I was here—I am not aware that the late Recorder said it was very dishonest of the Company—I did not admit on that occasion that coals were sent from the Great Northern station, at King's Cross, mixed, Wallsend and Silkstone, and delivered to the customer as Wallsend; I will swear that—to the best of my belief such a thing has not been done, and therefore I could not have admitted it.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. My friend Mr. Giffard has had the advantage of being counsel for the company? A. On more than one occasion—I never sold Elseca coals, at 14s. a ton, for best Wallsend or Silkstone.
COURT to MR. MILLARWT. Q. Was anything said about the coals at the time you gave the order? A. I asked what was the price of the best ooals, and Jones said 22s.; I told him to send me two tons of that coal.
The prisoners received good characters.
There were two other indictments against Jones, for which see page 466.
PLEADED GUILTY to the Second Count
Six years' Penal Servitude.
Confined Fourteen Days, and Three Years in the Reformatory at Red Hill.,
668. JOHN BURREY (67), was indicted for that he being bailee of a 5l. note, the property of William Wynyard Boucher, did fraudulently convert the same to his own use, also for unlawfully obtaining 1l. by false pretences, to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
673. JANE JONES (40) , Stealing 1 pewter pot and 1 drinking glass, value 1s. 9d., the property of George Swinyard; also 1 pewter measure, value 10d., the property of Robert Gibson; also 1 pewter pot and two drinking glasses, value 3s. 9d. the property of Alfred Sutton, to all of which she pleaded
GUILTY — Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Ten Years' Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Monday, August 13th, 1860.
PRESENT.—Mr. Ald. CUBITT M.P.; Mr. Aid. HALE; Mr. Ald. CONDER, and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and F.H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL WILEY . I was salesman to Theodore Hyla Jennens, and Co. before their bankruptcy, and, after that, I was retained as salesman by the creditors' assignees, Thomas Phillips and George Alcock—on 4th March, in this year, somebody, giving the name of Dennistoun, called at my place of business, No. 6, Halkin-street-west—he said he required a small selection of papier-machô goods, for a correspondent of his—he gave me, in writing, this reference," W. Robertson, and Co. 38, Crutched-friars, ship-brokers"—he gave me as his own address, 33, Great Tower-street—in consequence of what he said, I wrote to Messrs. Robertson, of Crutched-friars, to say that a person named Deunistoun had applied for some goods; I stated the amount, and asked if Messrs. Denmstoun, and Co. were trustworthy—I received this letter in answer (Read: "36, Crutched-friars, London, 9th March, 1860. Mr. Wiley, 6, Halkin-street—Sir, in reply to your note of yesterday, we consider the firm of Deunistoun, and Co. to be highly respectable and trustworthy.
—Signed, Robertson, and Co.")—before I wrote the letter to them I told Clemitson what our terms were as to payment—I afterwards received a ship, ping order—I afterwards gave certain goods to Prosser to take to St. Katharine's Docks—they were marked, "D," in a triangle, "101."
Gross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. I believe you received that letter from Robertson's by return of post? A. I think it was; it was very soon—I did not afterwards go to Crutched-friars to make inquiries about Robertson, and Co.—I did not personally make any inquiries at all, either at Tower-street or Crutched-friars—the goods were to be for cash, within a month—I considered Robertson's reply was sufficient—I never had any dealings with him before—I knew his father; I believe he was a broker in the city—I do not know that he was also an underwriter, or that he was a broker in a very large way—I believe he was at Crutched-friars; the same place—I do not know that he was there forty or fifty years—I believe he carried on business where the prisoner is, for many years—I do not know that the prisoner's mother has the house at the present moment—I know his mother—I do not know whether she has that house or not—when I went there to make inquiries after Robertson she represented that she was the housekeeper—beyond that I know nothing—I do not know that she is the owner of that house—she represented herself to me as the housekeeper, and would not even know anything about Mr. Robertson—she did not represent herself to me as the owner of the house—I did not know then that she was living there with her son—I did not know then that she was Mrs. Robertson, but I have known it since—I did not make any appointment with Mr. Robertson to meet me—I do not know that before these proceedings were taken, before he was given into custody, there was an offer on his part to pay for these goods; that he had been led into this—I never heard a single syllable about offering to pay, either from his mother or his brother.
THOMAS FIFIELD . I am assistant to Mr. Johnson, messenger in the matter of Jenuens—I went to 33, Great Tower-street, after the expiration of the month—there was tho name of James Dennistoun, and Co. on the plate-glass window of a door—that was shortly after 10th April—the room door was open—there was nothing in the room—I afterwards went to Robertson's, 38, Crutched-friars—I did not see Robertson—I should say that I called thereat least thirty times before seeing him—when I did see him I told him that I had come in consequence of the reference he had given to James Dennistoun—I asked him if his name was William Robertson—he said it was—I said "My name is Fifield; I want to speak to you in reference to the goods you have had, as they were not paid for"—he took me into a back office on the second floor, and I then showed him that reference which he had sent to James Dennistoun—I asked him if he seut that—he said he did—I thensaid that it looked very suspicious, and he had better accompany me to Messrs. Sole and Turner's, solicitors, and explain it, as I had been so many times and never could see him—he declined to do so, but said he was alwaysto be met with between 1l. and 2—I did not find that that was the case—I never found him till I took him into custody on 22d May—I think that was about three weeks after—I met him quite promiscuously, the day before the Derby—he said that he had been recommeuded to James Dennistoun by a Liverpool captain—that was on the first day that I saw him—he said that he had shipped them on board the John Phillips, on the 10th of March—those were hi» actual words.
Cross-examined. Q. His name was in the list of shipping-brokers? A. Yes; I believe so—I am not aware that there is any licence for a shippingbroker—I know now that the prisoner's mother occupies the house in Crutched-friars—I do not know that his father lived there for many years and carried on business for many years—I do not know what his father was at all—I have not made any inquiries—I have seen Mrs. Robertson a great many times, but I never knew for a great while that she was Mrs. Robertson—I believe the prisoner only occupies the one room—his mother lets out the floors to different persons—it is all used as offices—she lives at the back part of the premises—I left a note with the prisoner's mother, to make an appointment with the prisoner, and I met him the following morning at 12 o'clock, the time appointed—that was after I had been there a number of times and never could see him—he met me at 38, Crutchedfriars—it was immediately after I requested him to go with me to Sole and Turner's, that I first instructed a police-constable—I took a summons out at Westminster police-office shortly after—the money was not tendered to me, in anyway, before the summons was served, or before he was in custody—it was tendered in the presence of Messrs. Sole and Turner, after the proceedings were taken at Westminster police-court—the money for the goods was not tendered to me before he was in custody, or to my attornies, that I am aware of—I did hear something of it, but I do not know that the money was actually tendered to Messrs. Sole and Turner—I believe the amount was to be tendered if we would forego the prosecution—it was the 22d of May that he was taken into custody—I took him in custody in Thames-street—directly I showed him the letter, he admittted that he sent it.
MR. LEWIS to THOMAS FIFIELD. Q. In whose writing do you believe this order to be? A. The name of Robertson and Co. is in the handwriting of the prisoner, and the body of it is the writing of another witness.
COURT. Q. Have you seen the writing of the prisoner before? A. The letter and the reference that he sent, that is the only time.
CHARLES TALLANT I reside in the New Kent-road, and am a commission agent—the body of this paper is in my writing—the signature is in Mr. Robertson's—I saw him write it; but not this other one—(Read: "To the superintendent of St. Katharine's Docks. Please deliver to bearer the undermentioned, sent down for the John Phillips, for New Zealand, D (in a triangle), 101. Signed: J. Robertson and Co., 38, Crutched-friars, 14th March, 1860.")—I took that down to St. Katharine's Docks—Mr. Clemitson went with me—he was present when that was written—I knew Mr. Clemitson; he had an office in Great Tower-street—he carried on business in the name of Dennistoun & Co.—I got the case marked D, in a triangle—I took it to 38, Crutched-friars; I left it just inside the passage—that is the house of the prisoner—Mr. Clemitson was just behind me and he saw me leave it in the passage—that was all I had to do.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A A commission agent, acting for anybody; for Mr. Clemitson on that occasion—he asked Mr. Robertson for the order, and then asked if I would go to the Docks and fetch it, and employ a man to take it to the office—I was obliged to have the order of the shipping broker, either to ship the goods or to get them, inland, I
believe—Clemitson did not want me to accompany him—he asked me to go and fetch the things—he merely asked me to go and superintend it—to see that they were delivered properly—I went as far as the dock gates—I employed a man with a truck to take them from the docks—I don't know the man's name; he is a man who stands outside St. Katharine's Docks—he is generally to be found there—I employed the man, and paid him—Clemitson was not seen in the transaction—the man took the truck right up to Crutched-friars, and put the box in the passage—Clemitson was behind me—I did not see the prisoner at the time I brought the box back—I don't know at all where Clemitson is—I have not seen him since that very day, 14th March—I don't know that he took himself off directly this matter came to light—I have had no communication with him at all.
RICHARD PAVITT (re-examined). I also produce a deposit order of the 9th March—the case was received on the 10th—the John Phillips finished her loading on 25th April, and I saw her go out of dock on the 26th—goods which are going to be taken away by ships are frequently fetched away instead of leaving them there.
Cross-examined. Q. They can only be got out in the name of the person whose they are? A. Yes—I knew Mr. Robertson's father, I should think, since 1830—I should say that I knew him for twenty years, carrying on business as a broker in the very place where the prisoner now lives, 38, Outched-friars—I cannot say that we have had any transaction with the prisoner for some years—I do not think that it was "Robertson k Co." when the father was alive—I was not aware that the son was taken into the business before the father died—I do not know whether it was so or not—it was "William Robertson," for many years.
THOMAS STOKES . I live at 28, Hungerford-street, Commercial-road—I am sometimes employed at 38, Crutehed-friars, by Mrs. Robertson, and sometimes by Mr. Robertson—I saw a box in the passage there, but I do not know what month it was—I saw a mark on it, "D," in a triangle, "101"—I can't say how long ago that was—it was since Christmas—it remained there about a day or two before anything was done with it—then Mr. Clemitson came and asked me to help him up stairs with it—it was taken up stairs by Mr. Clemitson and me, into Favan & Co.'s office, on the second floor front, the office next to Mr. Robertson's—I had seen Clemitson there often with Mr. Robertson—this was on a Saturday—Mr. Robertson asked me if anybody had spoken to me about that box—I can't say how soon that was after I helped the box up stairs—it was not the same day—it was two or three weeks afterwards, at the same place, Crutched-friars—he asked me if any gentlemen had asked me any questions about a case marked, "triangle D"—I told him they had—he said, "It is a case now; you have made a case of it"—he said, "Oh Christ! oh Christ!"—he then said, "Would you like to have four years imprisonment?"—I said, "No."
ANTHONY WILLIAM MONGER . I am in the detective force—I know a person of the name of Clemitson—on Saturday, 2d June, I went to 23, Southgrove, Peckham—I was in company with Mr. Fifield, in Mr. Wilson's house—I went there to make some inquiries—while standing at the window there, T saw Mr. Clemitson, Robertson, and a poulterer named Owen, come to the gate—Robertson was at that time out on bail—it was after the time he had been at the police-court—he said once to me, when he had been up at the Westminster police-court two or three times, that he would render me all the assistance in his power to find Clemitson, and if we found Clemitson he would get over it—Robertson was not admitted to bail after I
had given my evidence—I saw Clemitson and Robertson together—Clemitson got away on that day over the garden wall.
Cross-examined. Q. Was Mrs. Clemitson there? A. Yes; she knew me very well—she saw me at the window—she kept me at the door seven minutes, before she opened the door, long enough for her husband to get away—Mrs. Robertson was not there—I never saw her there—I have seen Mrs. Clemitson three or four times with Mrs. Robertson.
FREDERICK COLE . I reside at 33, Great Tower-street, City—I did not let a room in that house to a person of the name of Dennistoun; I have the looking after the offices—there was a room let to him in December, or thereabout—I never saw any business transacted there—there was one chair there, and a carpet there once, but the carpet was moved out a few days afterwards—a lad used to come there for letters—one day, when the lad came for letters, I followed him to 38, Crutched-friars—I stayed outside half an hour—he did not come out when I was there—I followed him again, a few days afterwards, and he went to the same place again—I once went into this office and saw that boy there—I saw that same lad at the police-court—he came to solicit an adjournment of the summons on behalf of Robertson.
Cross-examined. Q. Clemitson is a flourishy, imposing sort of man, is not he? A. I don't know him at all—I did not know the person who went under the name of Dennistoun.
MR. METCALFE to CHARLES TALLANT. Q. Was Clemitson a man of flourishy, imposing appearance and address? A. Yes; rather a fine looking person—looks gentlemanly—not so old as forty-live, I think—I should think about thirty-five.
JOHN ELISHA WILSON . I reside at 23, South-grove, Peckham—I know Clemitson and Robertson—they were residing at 24, next door to me—I think they were living together in that house from 2d March, till the time Monger came—I saw them together often—Monger came on 2d Jnne—I think Clemitson let Robertson in at the moment Monger came—it might be that Robertson let Ciemitson in—the two were at the gate at the same time.
Cross-examined. Q. Was Clemitson living there long before Robertson came? A. Clemitson was a tenant of ours at Michaelmas—Robertson came, I believe, some time in February—I don't know whether Clemitson took lodgers there before that, I have seen no one there—I know Robertson lived there, because I used to see him go out the first thing in the morning, and come back there at night.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Have you ever seen any person residing in that house, except Clemitson and Robertson? A. No; except their wives and families—I saw somebody whom I presume to be Robertson's wife; and I have seen Clemitson's wife too—on the occasion when they were at the gate and Monger came, Clemitson ran down the garden—I lost sight of him and never saw anything of him afterwards.
There was another indictment against the prisoner on which no evidence was offered.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Month.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE BAILEY . On 31st July I was at the Blackwall Railway-station at Fenchurch-street at twenty minutes before 10 o'clock—I felt the prisoner at my watch—he made a start, and I ran and caught him in the act of putting the watch in another man's pocket; I am quite clear the prisoner is the man—I called the policeman and he took him—he was standing still when I caught him, and he denied that he had taken the watch—I said, "Never mind, you are the man that robbed me of my watch"—he had a coat on his right arm—this is the watch, it has the maker's name inside it and my own name; it was made for me.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. What time did this happen? A. About twenty minutes to 10 o'clock—it was near the Blackwall station—there had been an excursion—there were a great many people—I am not aware that I had ever seen the prisoner before—the first thing that attracted my attention was the tug at my watch—there were a good many people about, and a good deal of pushing and struggling to get by—I saw the prisoner near me after I felt the tug—I did not cry out that I had lost my watch till I had collared the prisoner; I followed him as close as possible through the mob and collared him myself—the other man, Mr. Green, was near; he was waiting for some of his children—the prisoner was in the crowd at the time he was putting the watch in the pocket, and I collared him—this was at night—I saw the prisoner drop the Watch behind him.
COURT. Q. You said you saw him in the act of putting the watch in Mr. Green's pocket? A. Yes; he did—Mr. Green put his hand back and said, "Don't put it in my pocket," and in the scuffle it fell on the pavement—he was working his hand under the coat into Mr. Green's pocket—the prisoner was in front of me, and Mr. Green was by my side—there were other people about—we were not pushing about till the policeman came—I saw the prisoner with my watch in his right hand, and he was putting it into the pocket of a loose alpaca coat of Mr. Green; Mr. Green was standing with his side towards me—I had been in the excursion train and started twentyfive minutes past 9 in the morning; I had not been drinking—I only had part of a pot of half-and-half amongst four of us—I had nothing more but tea.
EDWARD GREEN . I am a porter in Billingsgate market—I was with the last witness at the station in Fenchurch-street on 31st July—I was looking for my little boy—I felt a shove at my pocket—the last witness collared the prisoner immediately, and said "He has got my watch"—I said, "No, he has dropped it in my pocket"—the policeman took the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. What did the prosecutor say? A. He said to the prisoner "You have got my watch"—there was a crowd—the excursion train had come in—till I felt this my attention was not drawn to the pocket—when I looked down I saw the prisoner's hand drawn away—I did not look at him before I felt this—there were several other persons about but not so near to me as he was—there were several persons pushing me about—I had not been with the excursion, I had been at work all day.
Blackwall railway-station—I saw the prosecutor and the prisoner struggling—the prosecutor said the prisoner had stolen his watch, and Mr. Green said "He has put it in my pocket"—I asked for it and it had dropped on the ground, it was picked up and given to Mr. Green and he gave it to me—I took the prisoner to the station and went back at 11 o'clock; I took a lamp and found the bow of the watch just on the spot where the struggle had been—I found 3s. 7 1/2 d. on the prisoner—he refused his address at first, but after the charge was taken he gave his address, which I found was correct.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Month.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, August 14th, 1860.
PRESENT—SIR ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald., M.P.; Mr.' RECORDER; Mr. Ald. HALE, and ROBERT MALCOLM KEBB, Esq.
Before Mr. Recorder.
681. HERMAN LEHMANN (23), Was indicted for stealing, on 8th June, 7 yards of silk, value 22l.; on 16th June, 64 yards of silk, value 8l. 10s., and on 7th July, 15 yards of silk, value 2l., the property of Charles and Thomas Killy and another, his masters, having been before convicted; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY and MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
ANNIE LEON . I am daughter to Mr. Leon, of 7, Upper Woburn-place—we had some coals of the Great Northern Coal Company—they amounted to 2l. 10s.—a ticket had been left with them by the collector, after the coals had been delivered—in June last I was called into the hall to see somebody—I do not recollect the day—it was about the middle of June—I went into the hall and found the prisoner there—on seeing him he solicited orders for coals from the Great Northern Railway—I said we did not require any coals, and I would pay an account that was owing—he said that he had not called for the money—I said, no; but I would prefer paying him, and asked him if he had any bill with him—he said, no—I said that I had a bill with me and that he could receipt that—I paid him the money and saw him sign this receipt at the corner, "Paid, J. West, June 14th, 1856"—he left, after having signed that—I do not know the date when I saw him again—I was called out of bed on the next occasion, and on going down I found the prisoner and the policeman there—I did not go to the police-station at that time; I refused to go—I heard the prisoner speak at that time, and that added to my recollection of the man—I said I believed that he was the person—he was asked on that occasion, before he left, to give his address
—I did not ask him, I told the policeman to ask him, and he wrote his address—he wrote two addresses—these (produced) are the papers that he wrote on that occasion—(Read: "Mr. Henry Jones, 33, Provost-street, Hoxton," "Henry Jones, 33, Provost-street, East-road, City-road")—I saw his writing on the first occasion when he wrote the receipt to that note—I have looked at this since; in my opinion it is the writing of the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON Q. You had not seen him before, had you? A. Not before he solicited orders—when I was called down by the police-officer I said that the person who had called on me had no moustache—that was the fact—the servant opened the door for him the first time he called—she was not with me when the receipt was signed—the officer wanted me to go to the station with him to identify him; I refused to go—he told me that he must discharge the man if I would not swear to him—at that time I believed him to be the person, but he had no moustache, therefore it made a difference—I would not have gone that night had I been certain—the servant refused to say she could swear to him—I saw him again, after that night at the police station; that was two or three days after, I think—I am not certain—the officer took me to the station.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What part of the station was this person in when you saw him? A. In the dock—to the best of my belief the prisoner is the man that called on me; I firmly believe him to be the man.
AUGUSTA GREENHAM . I am servant to Mr. Leon—I remember opening the door in June last to a person who called about the coals—I do not recollect the day of the month—I believe the prisoner was the man—he said he called to solicit orders from the Great Northern for coals—I called my mistress, Miss Leon—on 26th June last I accompanied an officer to a public-house and there saw the prisoner—he was in company with several other men; I said to the officer that I believed that was the man—I did not point him out—I had a veil or at the time—I raised my veil—the prisoner saw me; he appeared to look quite straight at me, and about a minute after that he got up and went out—I heard him speak each time; when he spoke to my mistress and again at the public-house—I have not the least doubt that he is the man.
Cross-examined. Q. You have no doubt now? A. I have no doubt within my own mind—I thought he had not a moustache when he was at our door—I did tell the police-officer that I would not like to swear to him—I said that because I was not confident in my mind at the moment as to his being the man—I have no doubt but what he is the man, but I should not like to swear to the man positively even now.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was the moustache anything like so large as it is now when you saw him first? A. I do not recollect that he had any at all—when I saw him at the public-house I don't think it was quite so large as it is now—his features enable me to say whether he is the man; I believe him to be the man.
HENRY GREATHURST (Policeman, G 209). On Tuesday evening, 26th June last, between 11 and 12 o'clock I went with Augusta Greenham to a public-house—the prisoner was sitting there with others—the witness raised her veil; she was going to eat a bit of biscuit—the prisoner saw her and he immediately jumped up and walked out of the place—before that Greenham had directed my attention to him—I followed him, and on overtaking him I
told him he was charged with obtaining money under false pretences from 7, Upper Woburn-place, Mr. Leon's—he said that it was not true, it was not him—after that I searched him and found on him a pocket-book and these papers, which purport to be papers belonging to the Great Northern Railway Company—I saw him write his address; he wrote twice in my presence—this receipt and the address correspond very much together, no doubt they are the same writing; I have not the least doubt of it—the prisoner also wrote this address—that was when he asked me to go to his wife.
Cross-examined. Q. After you had taken him to Miss Leon's from the public-house I believe you discharged him? A. I did.
MR. COOPER. Q. What was the appearance of his moustache when he was first apprehended? A. Very slight indeed.
MR. ATKINSON. Q. Did you go to the place which these papers purported to state as his address? A. To one of them—I found that to be his address—he had given me the right address—one is his father's address, and the other is his own.
HENRY PALMER . I am collector of the Great Northern Railway—I remember leaving this ticket at 7, Woburn-place—I do not know the prisoner; he is not employed on our line in any capacity; nor employed by me at all at the coal depot, in collecting or anything.
Cross-examined. Q. There are other Companies I suppose calling themselves Great Northern Coal Companies? A. I believe there are.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. But had your Company supplied this coal to Mr. Leon? A. We had—I called for the money for it and left the ticket.
HERBERT CLARKE . I am the manager of the coal department at the Great Northern Railway Company's Coal Depot—I have not authorised the prisoner in any way to collect monies on my behalf, or on behalf of the Company—these two papers are not issued by me or by my authority—I do not know of any other Herbert Clarke as agent for a Coal Company; not for the Great Northern Railway Company or Great Northern Coal Company.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean to say you have never heard of a Henry Clarke? A. I have heard the name, I have not known the person—I have known the name as carrying on a coal business.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Where have you heard of his carrying on business, do you know? A. No; I do not know his address—I have heard of him recently—I do not know that there is such a person—I have heard his name within the last three months, I should think.
COURT. Q. Before this matter arose? A. Before, and possibly since—I think I did before; yes, certainly, before—that person has not anything to do with the Great Northern Company or King's Cross Depot—I do not know that there is such a person—I know of no other coal depot at King's Cross except ours—I do not know of any Henry Clarke at King's Cross.
MR. ATKINSON called the following Witnesses for the Defence.
MARY LICKFOLD . I reside at 3, Bray's-place, Lower-road, Islington—I remember the last Hampton races—they took place on 14th June last—I went to them on that day—I believe there were about sixteen or seventeen of us in the same conveyance—we started from the Lower-road, and called in the East-road for a party—we started I think about 9 o'clock in the morning as near as possible—I know the young man at the bar; he was in the van
—he had a moustache then the same as he has now—I and he and the party went together; at least, we took him up in the East-road—I observed him at the races during the day—he was not in our company the whole of the day-time; we saw him during the day on the race-course, and he returned with us in the evening—we left Hampton as nearly as possible about 7, or a few minutes after 7 in the evening—I did not see him after the 14th at any time, to my knowledge—we put him down at his residence in the East-road about 11 o'clock in the evening; or half-past it might have been.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. It was June 14th of this year, was it not? A. Yes—not June 14th, 1856—the prisoner was not a companion of mine on that day—I had no knowledge of him whatever before he went down to Hampton with us that day—he was in the van with us; one of our party—I have not given evidence before on his behalf—I have never been in a place of this kind before—I do not know of any witnesses called for him at the police-court—I did not attend there—I was subpoenaed to come here; I don't know by whom—I know a person of the name of Higley—I have not seen him—he was with me that day—I do not know Mrs. Eastman—I did not know any of the party that was in the van except Mr. Higley; I went alone—I had never seen the prisoner before to my knowledge—I had no conversation with any one about him—I do not know how I came to be subpoenaed—I never saw him again until I saw him here—he is no relation of mine.
MR. ATKINSON. Q. Is he the person you went down to Hampton with that morning? A. He is the person that was in the van—his wife was with him, but no child—my husband is the proprietor of the van, and our own carman drove.
FRANK PARKES . I am a carman, and drive vans for Mr. Lickfold—I remember going to the last Hampton races—I drove down—we left London about 9 o'clock in the morning—my mistress went with me—the prisoner went with us; and three or four persons with him; the van was pretty well full—I brought him up at night, it was about half-past 10 when we got home.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you know the persons who were with him? A. Some of them—there were about eighteen in the van—they were not in little parties, they were all together—they all started from one house, the whole eighteen—I am positive the prisoner was one of the party—he came to me two or three times on the course, and gave me some refreshment twice.
REBECCA PULLEY . I live at 24, Singleton-street, East-road, and am the wife of John William Pulley, a plumber and painter—I am a daughter of Mrs. Eastman—I remember going to the last Hampton races on 14th June—I am a relation of the prisoner—my mother-in-law is his wife's sister—the prisoner went in the van with us to Hampton races; we left between 8 and 9 in the morning, and got home just upon 12—he had a moustache at that time as he has now—he was in the habit of wearing it, and has worn it for a twelvemonth, I can swear to—I was with him and his wife on the course the best part of the time.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. and MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
in December last I remember a person calling for an account for coals supplied by the Great Northern Railway—I think it was on the 29th that he first came—I only know the date by the man writing the 29th; I have no independent memory of the day—on that occasion my mistress offered him a cheque which he was unable to change, and he went away—my mistress directed him to call at 10 o'clock the following morning—next morning the prisoner called—I have not any doubt that he is the man who called—I opened the door to him—he said he came from the Great Northern Railway for Mrs. Bond's account—I asked him into the parlour, called my mistress, and she came up stairs to him—I did not go into the parlour with her—I did not see him go out; I opened the door to him when he came back, in about a quarter of an hour—he said the people would not give him change, but he would go round to the Rose, that he was well known there, and they would give him change—he went and returned in about ten minutes, and gave me the change, 14s—he then left—he had no moustache or whiskers that I noticed.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. If he had such a moustache as, he has now, don't you think you would have noticed it? A. Yes, I should—I remember Christmas Day, I believe it was on a Saturday; the day after Christmas Day was boxing-day—I was performing my duties at the house on Sunday, and the same on Monday and Tuesday—I believe it was on the Wednesday that the person came about the account—the prisoner called the next day about 9 or 10 o'clock, as near as I can remember—that was the Thursday-morning, the 30th—the Rose is a good distance from our house—I did not see him go in.
ELIZABETH BOND . I am a widow, and live at 71, Wimpole-street—In December last I owed the Great Northern Railway 2l. 6s. for coals—somebody called for the money who was a stranger—next day the prisoner called; he was not the man who called the first day—the servant came and told me that a man had called from the Great Northern for the morney for the coals—I took the file in my hand, and went up into the parlour, where he came to me, and while I was looking for the bill he came to me and said, "That is it" headed very large "Great Northern," and I took it off and paid it—I gave him three sovereigns—he could not give me change at the time—he put a stamp on the bill, and a receipt on the bottom, "R. Fisher, December 30th, 1859—at that time I gave him an order for more coals, and he wrote," two ton of coals"—they did not come—in consequence of their not coming I wrote to the Great Northern, and then found out I had been defrauded—I have since paid the bill—I should think I was about a quarter of an hour with the prisoner altogether—he is the man who called the second time, the one that I paid.
Cross-examined. Q. I observe you wear glasses? A. Yes; I am not short sighted; the sight is weakening—it has been a few years weakening, perhaps—I have worn glasses these fifteen years—my sight has not been growing worse—I always wear my glasses—the party who came had not a moustache—I heard your examination of my servant—I cannot positively speak as to the date—I know it was a right receipt that was put on—I don't recollect what day Christmas. Day was—I paid the bill, and I know it was the right date he put on it.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was he close to you while in the parlour? A. Yes;—he was talking to me—I heard him speak at the police-court—that did not assist me at all—I am certain that is the man I paid the money to—I believe the date was right—I did not notice the "20" being altered to "30"—I put it
instantly by—I have always dealt with the Great Northern for many years.
JOHN COOK SILCOCK . I keep a public-house at 21, Lower-street, Islington—I know the prisoner—he was in the habit of frequenting my house last Christmas, and before that, for months up to about the middle of January—during that time he had no moustache—I think he had a slight whisker, but no moustache whatever.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. No; I was subpoeaned yesterday.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. How long have you known the prisoner altogether as frequenting your house? A. About seven or eight mouths—I have not the slightest doubt about him, or about his moustache being absent during that period.
CHARLES SILCOCK . I know the prisoner—I have known him frequenting my father's house for about seven months—he frequented the house before Christmas, and till the middle of January; during that time he had no moustache—I was in the habit of serving him—it was my duty to serve in the parlour.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know what a moustache is? A. Yes—we have many customers, I could not tell how many have a moustache, and how many have not—I was spoken to about this case yesterday about half-past 7—the sergeant of police came to me—I don't know exactly what he told me I was wanted for, he told me I was to come up along with my father—he did not tell me anything more, I am certain of that—he might have told me I was to come up to give evidence against somebody; I did not hear him.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you see this man very frequently during that seven months? A. Yes; he was there nearly every night—he had no moustache then.
HENRY GREATHURST (Policeman, G 209.) I apprehended the prisoner on 26th June—I observed his moustache at that time—it was very thin indeed, very short and stubbly—I searched him, and found these papers, (Read:—"Great Northern Railway Coal Company Depot—King's Cross, vendor's ticket, Dr. to K. Clarke.")
Cross-examined. Q. Are these the only documents you found? A. There were some more papers which I found at his house.
THOMAS WILLIAMS . I am inspector of the line of the Great Northern Railway—I was present at the prisoner's examination at the police-court—I noticed his moustache; it seemed to me to be a very few days' growth at that time—my attention was particularly dircted to it—we heard that they intended to prove he had a moustache.
Witnesses for the Defence.
AMELIA BROWN . I am the wife of Mr. Brown, and live at 20, Great Jamestreet, Hoxton—I remember a little party at Mrs. Vickres's, at Christmas time—it was the Thursday following Christmas Day—I think it was the 29th—Christmas Day was on the Sunday, and I know the party was on the following Thursday—I remember the prisoner being there—he was there when I went—I remained from about 4 or 5 till very late at night and I left him there—he wore a moustache at that time—I had seen him before, and he had worn his moustache before that time, and has continued to do so since—I have not seen him without a moustache, I should think, for two or three years—his character is very good among his neighbours; I never heard anything against it.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You have never heard him represent himself as the agent of the Great Northern and coming from Mr. Clarke? A. No; I was not aware that he was in the habit of doing so—my husband was at this party—it was in Alfred-terrace, Commercial-road—it was past 12 o'clock at night when I came away—I am quite certain that it was on the Thursday evening following Christmas Day.
ISABELLA EDWARDS . I know the prisoner, and have done so since just before Christmas—I was at Mrs. Vickres's party and the prisoner too—he and I and several other parties stayed there all night, and came away the next afternoon between three and four—I swear that he had a moustache at that time—I had seen him before but not to know him or speak to him—I knew him by being with his wife—he had a moustache at that time—I have seen him three or four times since.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know his wife? A. Yes—I went alone to the party—Mr. and Mrs. Jones, Mr. and Mrs. Richardson, and others remained there all night—we were playing cards some part of the evening—we sat up all night; we did not go to bed, not any of us—it is not a very large house—I can't tell how many bed-rooms there are—the house is No. 8, Devonport-place, Commercial-road-east—all the party did not remain all night; I can't tell how many did—I did not go to bed at all—the reason we remained was because we were so tired—I did not lie down—I have only known the prisoner's wife since just before Christmas, by seeing her at Mrs. Vickres's—I was examined at the police-court on the other charge.
HENRIETTA VICKRESS . I reside at 18, Alfred-terrace, Devonport-place, Commercial-road-east—I remember giving a little hospitable party on Thursday, 29th December; in the Christmas week—the prisoner and his wife and some other friends came to see me—they came to tea and supper—we had a game of cards—the party continued till the next afternoon from three to four o'clock—before they went away they had a good strong cup of tea which I thought would do them good—I am a widow and live on my property; my husband was a licensed victualler—I have occupied the house for 10 years—I can swear that the prisoner has had a moustache between 2 and 3 years—I have known him 18 or 19 years, and never knew a flaw in his character from a boy to the present time—I have not been without seeing him during that period once or twice a week.
Cross-examined. Q. You have been very intimate with him? A. Yes; and his family—I gave evidence here yesterday—some of us went to sleep on chairs that night after we were tired of playing at cards, and some laid down on my bed; no one went to bed—I sat down by the side of the bed and put my head on the bed for an hour or two, and then I roused myself and got up—that was about eight o'clock—the prisoner and some of the others were having a sleep in the meantime, and then they went down my garden and had a wash in a large washing-tub full of water, and after breakfast they went to playing at cards again—the prisoner was with them—Miss Edwards and Mrs. Jones, and I think Mrs. Brown, laid down on the bed and against the bed, but they did not actually go to bed.
JANE HOLMES . I live at 1, Clifton-place, Finsbury—I remember the prisoner being on a visit to his father, at Clifton-street-north, on New Year's Day—he had a moustache at that time, of the same character that he wears now—I spoke to him over the wall of the garden—I have known him 16 years—he is much respected, and all his family.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you live near his father's? A. Yes, only the
garden parts us—he does not live with his father, he was there on a visit—I believe they had a party there.
COURT. Q. Had you known him with a moustache previously to that? A. Yes; he always had his moustache on whenever I saw him.
WILLIAM HOLMES . I am the husband of the last witness—I have known the prisoner 16 years—I never knew anything against him—I have known him to wear a moustache for the last two years, or nearly so—I remember seeing him about Christmas time; he then had a moustache of the same character that he has now.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you never know him to shave his moustache? A. Not for the last two years—I have been in the habit of seeing him two or three times a week—he gets his living as a coal-agent, and has done so for these six or seven years.
FRANCES DAVIS . I live at Shaftesbury-street, New-north-road—I have known the prisoner from a boy; he has always borne a very good character—I saw him last boxing-day and in New Year's week, and I teased him about his moustache; he had a light moustache at that time—it might have been a trifle lighter than it is now; I think gentlemen mostly dye their moustaches to make them look a little darker.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you teasing him about just growing a moustache? A. Yes—he had not just begun to grow it—I had seen him with it twelve months previously—I teased him about it because he was twisting it round.
Cross-examined. Q. Did your husband know him? A. Yes, quite well—he is not here, he could not come—he is foreman to Mr. Noyes—I have been in the habit of seeing the prisoner three or four times a week.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. GIFFARD and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN ALLAN QUINTON . I am sub-editor of the "Leisure Hour"—the office of that journal is at 56, Paternoster-row—I know the defendant quite well from his visits to the office—he has written for that publication in several instances—he was frequently at the office in March last—I remember his calling for payment for the articles he had written—he was not paid on that occasion I think, but on the day following; our secretary was out—I explained to him that payment could not be made at that hour, but if he would call later, when the secretary was in, payment would be made—he asked for a piece of paper, I gave him some, and he sat down and wrote this letter (produced)—when he had written it he gave it to me to read—I read it—he then requested me to give it to the cashier, and I immediately went down to the cashier's office with the letter—Mr. Joseph Tarn is the cashier—the defendant wrote the letter upon tracing-paper—I did not supply him with that; he took it out of his pocket-book—this copy of the letter on
tracing-paper (produced) perfectly corresponds with the letter itself; my impression is that he folded up the copy and put it into his pocket-book.
Prisoner. Q. I believe you originated all these proceedings, you were the cause, perhaps the innocent cause, but you did it? A. If I did, I am—perfectly unconscious of it, it is quite a novel charge for me to hear—I deny that our society was indebted to you 15l. or 20l. at the time you called—I know you made unjust claims, upon a wrong estimate of the papers furnished, as to which you were afterwards perfectly satisfied—there was no lady and gentleman in the office at the time you wrote the letter—that was on a subsequent occasion—I believe I remarked that the Religious Tract Society was not founded to minister to your necessities—I cannot remember whether you wrote the letter on the first day or the second—my impression is that you came in early in the morning, between 9 and 10, and wrote this letter, and that you called again about 12 o'clock, when a lady and gentleman were present—you were then in a very excited state—at a subsequent part of the day you got a reply from Dr. Macauley, the editor, in answer to your note; I believe the purport of it was regretting that such a thing had occurred, and that if you called next day you should get your money—I have not got our books here—I believe you were paid 15l. subsequently—you afterwards contributed some papers—(Letter read:) "Clarke's, 252 Strand. March 23d, 1860. Mr. Wemyss Jobson, author of the 'History of the French Revolution' &c. transmits civilities to the cashier of the Religious Society, and requests that gentleman will to-day transmit him some payment on account of the various articles which Mr. Wemyss Jobson has lately written for their journal, the 'Leisure Hour.' Mr. Wemyss Jobson has written at least forty or fifty pages in all, and he has explained to the editor, Dr. Macauley, that he had been too grossly plundered by the late vile, legacy-hunting whig peer the Earl of Camperdown, and the present miscreant representative of Ayrshire, Sir James Ferguson of Kilkerran, the former of whom by marrying Mr. Wemyss Jobson's niece to the uncle of the latter succeeded in stripping Mr. Wemyss Jobson and his family of their inheritance, to be able to give the usual credit. In consequence of nonpayment he has been subjected to privations and humiliations which it might delight these wretches to learn, but which he shall not stoop to describe; as he is unwilling to believe a religious society desires to promote their views, and while aiming at the conversion of heathen in the South Seas attempt to deprive an Englishman of bread."
Prisoner. Q. I should like to know on what day it was I demanded my money? A. On 24th March T paid you 6l. 16s., and on 28th May a balance of 7l. 5s. 9d., making 14l. 2s. 3d.
THE RIGHT HON BENJAMIN DISRAELI , M.P. I am member for Buckinghamshire—On or about the 2nd June last I received a letter, this (produced) is it—it came by the post in London—(This, being read, was an application from the defendant to Mr. Disraeli to bring before Parliament the indignities to which the writer alleged himself to have been subjected upon his arrest at the instance of Sir James Ferguson, whom he accused of depriving him and his family of their patrimony).
Prisoner. (who—had objected to Mr. Disraeli being sworn on the New Testament). Q. Have you not written to Mr. Eleazer Grub or to Major Noah of the "New York Times" stating that since the Jewish disabilities were removed you had returned to Abraham's bosom? A. I do not know such
persons, and never heard of them, I therefore could not have written to them—I did not cause them to be written to, or to Moses Beech—I never heard of any such person—I am what I always was, a Christian—I am not aware that I ever wrote a single sentence about Pontius Pilate—I am the author of a work called "Venetia"—I am under the impression, and have no doubt of my accuracy, that in 1852 you commenced writing to me, and continued that correspondence till 1853—and the result of that correspondence was, although I am very little disposed to notice communications of that kind, that it was thought expedient that you should be put under the surveillance of the police; and you were, in consequence of your haunting the public offices, and creating a great disturbance there one day, and being always in the purlieus of the House of Commons,—it was thought on the whole the most charitable thing to advise the police to have their eye upon you—you were at the office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and conducted yourself there in a very violent manner—I was then Chancellor—I speak from the report of my secretaries—I have myself received about twenty letters from you, I understand you have written more than 120—I never saw you till I saw you at the police-office the other day—I never heard of any interview of yours with Lord Malmesbury, and am wholly unconscious of your ever having had one—I never received a letter from you at Lord Malmesbury's suggestion, sketching out a plan by which I might secure the popular suffrages for my government without too much compromising its Conservative opinions—to shorten your examination on these points, I should say I never heard your name mentioned by any human being, and never heard of you till you wrote me a letter—I never wrote a letter to you in my life, nor did I ever verbally request you to develop your theory in the pages of the "Standard"—I received a number, of letters from you, which were of so wild and offensive a character that I directed that no more should be shown to me, and that none should be answered—I did not know the late Mr. Delany of the "Times"—I never expressed any desire to meet you; I never wrote to you, or caused you to be written to—I cannot, of course, tell what acknowledgments of the receipt of letters have been sent from my office—I never wrote to you thanking you for cutting up Lord Palmerston, or ever directed my secretary to do so—(looking at a letter) I have no doubt of the authenticity of that letter—it is a form sent to everybody who communicates with the office—I never requested you to quiz his Lordship's French—I never had the slightest communication with any publisher in America to that effect—it is a mere invention, nor have I the slightest idea what you are talking about.
LADY EDITH FERGUSON . Some time in the middle of June last I received a letter in an envelope by post—I sent it to Sir James Ferguson, who was then in Scotland—I was in Chesham-street when I received it—I kept the outer envelope, and sent the letter in the inner envelope to Sir James, and afterwards when he came to town I gave him the envelope that I had kept.
Prisoner. Q. Has your husband ever communicated to you the fact that a fortnight before these proceedings were instituted, I, by letter, requested police-inspector Bray to express my regret that these verses had ever reached your Ladyship? A. No; he has not yet communicated that to me—you asked me that question at the police-office—I have not spoken to my husband on the subject since.
sureties—I remember his giving me this letter in the envelope; he said it was for the purpose of posting—he called my attention to the first three verses, and I read them—the letter was open—he had not put it in the envelope then—he then put it in the envelope and gave it me to post—I took it in the course of my duty to the governor office—it is the custom of the prison to deliver all letters to the governor before they are sent out—the defendant was aware of that practice; he would know it by the rules of the prison—the letter was given to me open—I gave it to the governor, after entering it in the letter-book, which I have here.
Prisoner. Q. Where was your attention directed to that letter? A. In your cell, by yourself—my attention was not first directed to it by the attorney for the prosecution—I am sure you showed me the verses, and you showed me other verses also—there were some which you made on my lending you a knife, which you sent to the "Leisure Hour," and here are some which you addressed to myself—these are not the verses I am speaking of—you did not tell me to take this letter to the governor—I did that in the course of my duty, it was my act, not yours; you had no alternative but to submit—the governor reads all letters—you conducted yourself with perfect propriety while in my custody—I never saw any symptom of insanity about you, I considered you were as sane as I was, I believe you were ill—I know that after some time you were supplied with a pair of county shoes, your own being worn out.
MR. POLAND. Q. Were the three verses of the song you noticed in the envelope, directed to Lady Ferguson? A. Yes; I entered the receipt of that letter in my book, which I have here—this is the entry, "16th April, 1860, D.W. Jobson, Lady Ferguson, 37, Chesham-street, Belgrave-square."
COURT. Q. Do you make entries of all letters you receive from prisoners? A. Yes; I enter the name of the prisoner, and the name and address of the person to whom the letter is sent—all the defendant's letters are entered here in the same way—the defendant directed ray attention to the first three verses—I read them with him, and then he said it was for the purpose of posting, and he put it into the envelope and gave it to me to post.
CAPTAIN HILL . I am the governor of the House of Detention—the defendant was under my care in April last; a letter containing these verses was brought to me by one of my officers for the purpose of inspection—I read it; I—took it to the prisoner and returned it to him, telling him that I considered it so offensive, particularly being addressed to a young married lady, that I would not send it out—he rather pressed me to forward it—he said he did not see why I should not, but I said I should not do it and I gave it back to him—while he was in prison, I became perfectly acquainted with his handwriting—I have no hesitation in stating that the song and the envelope are in his handwriting.
Prisoner. I admit it—I will not put Captain Hill to the proof—I will admit any of my writing, provided the whole of it is read—the letter addressed to Mr. Disraeli I admit to be mine. Witness. That is in the same handwriting—to the best of my belief, this letter of 21st December, and the envelope addressed to Sir James Ferguson, is in the prisoner's writing, and also this of 13th February—I have no doubt that the letter of 23d March is his, and the writing inside the envelope.
Prisoner. Q. Do you read all the letters of all the prisoners? A. No; common letters such as the majority are, my deputy looks at—if there is anything out of the common way it is brought to me; nineteen out of twenty are in the common form, such as, "Dear Mother, send me a clean
shirt"—I read the whole of those that are brought to me—all the letters go first to my deputy—I do not recollect telling you that I considered myself a sort of attorney-general for the prisoners, and that I made a point of assisting them to the utmost extent in my power—every letter must be inspected before posting; the prisoners are perfectly aware of that—every letter is entered in the letter-book, and then duly posted—I do not communicate the contents of the prisoners' letters to other persons—I can't recollect whether I showed the verses to the surgeon of the gaol; I might have done so—I do uot think I had them in my possession ten minutes; to the best of my belief I gave them back to you the same day—I will not say positively I did not give them to the surgeon—on the day that the order came from the Home Secretary to inquire into your sanity I might have given you a letter from the Swiss consul, and told you that the Swiss were up to the number of 300,000 men; I don't know that I did—I recollect your sending some verses to the editor of the "Times" about it, which I don't think were published; I think they were returned to you—if there was nothing objectionable in your letters, they would go out, as a matter of course—you wrote several letters, almost every day—I have no idea where those letters are now—I do not remember your laughing at the imputation of insanity, and my telling you that it was no laughing matter, for that all the mad doctors were mad themselves, and any two of them could at any time get you removed to a madhouse, where you might be confined for life—I never had the pleasure of seeing Sir James Ferguson till I saw him at the police-court—I think you are still labouring under a delusion as to having any claim upon Sir James Ferguson—the doctor was called on by the Home Secretary to give an opinion upon your state of mind—he said at that time he could not detect any symptom of insanity—he did not enter into any particular—I was not present when he saw you; I never heard you make any allusion to your sanity in reference to those verses—I never had any conversation with you on the subject after I returned them to you, you pressed me to forward them; you acquiesed in my not sending them, you had no alternative, because I declined—there were two soldiers confined in the gaol for desertion, about the middle of April; they belonged to the 3d Battalion of the Rifle Brigade, which was not in existence till the Crimean war was over—I don't think they could possibly have been out in the Crimea; they were both young men, one 22, the other 23—I never heard that they had stated in the court-yard of the gaol such remarks as are embodied in your verses—I know nothing about the verses being merely a repetition of their conversation—you have been twice in prison under my notice—on both occasions you conducted yourself with propriety—I had no reason to find fault with you—you conducted yourself in an ordinary, quiet and respectable manner as a prisoner—when you first came in, you were there for want of bail, and you were on a different class of diet to those prisoners who are under remand—there are three classes of diet, first, second and third—you were on the secondclass, and had the option of buying anything you chose—there is no third class diet, except for boys—when you last came in, you brought in 3s. 7 1/2 d. with you—I did not keep you for twenty-four hours without food in consequence of your sending out to purchase six penny-worth of meat—I am not aware of that having been done; it is not the regulation of the gaol—I was not requested by the prosecutor or any other person to starve and exhaust you, so that when you were brought up to the police-office, you might be unable to make your defence; I never had any communication with the prosecutor at all—I am not aware that when
you were brought up to confront Mr. Disraeli, you were staggering under the influence of starvation—I do not know that you had not tasted food, except twice, in seventy-two hours—you had food offered to you, if you did not eat it it was not my fault—you requested the indulgence of a penny newspaper—I laid your application before the visiting justices, and they did not think proper to allow it—you were permitted to take exercise in the yard—in order to do that, you were not compelled to herd with thieves and pick-pockets; they walk a yard apart—you were subject to the rules of the prison when you came in; every prisoner is searched and bathed—it was according to the rules of the prison that you were exhibited to fifty detectives; every Saturday by order of the Commissioners of Police, a constable from each division goes through all the gaols in London, to see the prisoners under remand—I had no communication with Sir James Ferguson about you, and I am sure he had none with any of the officers of the prison—I never saw your brother—all the letters that I did not give back to you were posted—when you came in the first time, you had 3l. 16s., I think, in your possession—no solicitors or their clerks were refused access to you—I received a letter from you when I was out of town, which I destroyed—it might have been five or six weeks after you were discharged—I think I saw the outer envelope which contained these verses, at the police-court—I said to the best of my belief it did not look like the other, and I should say it was not yours—I know your common ordinary handwriting, it was not of that character; I said it was not yours, and I should not say it was.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. In your judgment was the handwriting of that envelope, a natural or a feigned one? A. That I cannot say; in fact, I never examined it, but of the internal part I have no doubt—the defendant was committed on 28th March and recommitted on 7th July—I don't recollect when he was discharged.
Prisoner. I was discharged on 22d May—I was there two months, and I wish to call attention to the fact that six weeks elapsed between the 15th of April and the 22d of May, and nothing was heard of these verses for three months.
HENRY FERGUSON . I am uncle to Sir James Ferguson, member for Ayrshire; I am a writer to the Signet in Scotland, and also keeper of the Register of Deeds—I am nephew to the late Earl of Camperdown—I married a daughter of Mrs. Nasmyth of Edinburgh—I believe Mrs. Nasmyth is the defendant's sister—Mr. Nasmyth is living; he is a dentist of Edinburgh—I have seen several of the defendant's letters—I can't say that I am perticularly well acquainted with his writing—I have only had one letter from him—I have never seen him write.
Prisoner. Q. Did you ever see me at all till to-day? A. I saw you yesterday—I have been told that Mrs. Nasmyth is your Bister; I have no reason to disbelieve it.
SIR JAMES FERGUSON , Bart., M.P. I am member for Ayrshire—I was a lieutenant in the 3d Battalion of the Grenadier Guards, and afterwards captain—I was serving in the Crimea from the commencement of the war till May, 1855—I was present at Alma, and Inkermann—I was slightly wounded at Inkermann—I was elected member for Ayrshire in the month of December, 1854—on 21st December, 1852, I received this letter—it came to me by post in Scotland; the postmark is London—(read"3, Howardstreet, Strand, Sir—As I undertand my patrimony was in part expended to secure your election for Ayrshire, I give you notice that on your arrival in town, I shall hold you personally responsible, unless your relative or his
father-in-law, the sordid and sensual Edinburgh tooth-drawer, shall before the lapse of a week disgorge one half of the money they have obtained at the expense of myself and members of my family, who are in no degree at present able to defend their interests. Failing to receive satisfaction I shall lay the affair before every club in London, making you welcome to refer to a police-magistrate if you think proper—I am, Sir, &c., &c, D. Wemyas Jobson"—I afterwards received a letter shortly after 13th February—this, is the letter I received (produced); I think I received it in London—(read) "Sir—Circumstances have hitherto prevented me from paying you that attention on your arrival in town which I promised; I have moreover resolved to alter my intended course, as communications I have had with Sir William Dunbar and other men who know you better than I have the misfortune to do, have satisfied me that the only result of an ordinary appeal to you would be au introduction to a police-magistrate, and I am not partial to the mode of settling affairs. I shall therefore leave the initiative to you, and having insulted you (as I now do) as grossly as one man can insult another, I give you notice that unless you make the usual demand upon me within one week from this date, I shall publish an account of the whole affair and the foul manoeuvres by which you, your uncle, the Edinburgh attorney, and his viler father-in-law the tooth-drawer of that city, contrived to swindle my wretched relative, the late incestuous miscreant Robert Jobson of Auchter-house, out of the greater part of his fortune at the expense of myself and my unfortunate sister and brother, in order that you might have an opportunity of corrupting the electors of the Cinque-ports, and stalking into the misrepresentation of Ayrshire—I am, Sir, &c, D. WENYES JOBSON,2, Howard-street, Strand, Monday, February 13th, 1860"—There was also one on 23d March, with this written on the inside of the envelope—(read: "With Mr. Wemysa Jobson's disdain and notice, that if these cowardly efforts are further persisted in, he shall flog Sir James Ferguson from one end to the other of whatever street he chances to find him—Clarke's, 252, Strand, March 23d, 1860."—While in Scotland I received a copy of venes enclosed from my wife; these are them—I am a native of Scotland.
(The pages were here put in and read; it was headed "Song, dedicated to Lady Fergusm, and to be screamed six weeks hence through all the streets of London—Tune, 'Have you not heard of a Jolly young waterman?'—it consisted of upwards of thirty verses, in which the terms "coward, sneak, vile cur of the North" &c, were applied to Sir Jamea Ferguson.)
Prisoner. Q. Have you not been in the habit of denouncing me throughout the town as a lunatic, an impostor, and an assassin? A. No—when I have been asked the question I have decidedly said you were an impostor, not on account of saying that you were the brother of Mrs. Nasmyth—I never mentioned the word "assassin" in connexion with you—I have not attempted to prejudice this inquiry by getting the "Times" to write an article against you, insinuating that you were mad—I saw a leader in the "Times" such as you mention—I have never employed the "Sunday Times" to do anything—the letter of 21st December is not the first I received from you, and I never instructed my counsel to state so—I have had a great number of letters from you—I have bo letters here of February, 1859—I destroyed all letters as they came, up to the first threatening letter—I received a letter from you inquiring the address of my uncle; there was no insulting expressiou in that—this (produced) was my reply to that letter—I knew nothing about the circumstances to which your letters referred until lately; I believe it referred to your uncle having died and excluded you in his will
from any share in his property—I have lately understood it was because you had brought an infamous allegation against him and his sisters; that he turned you out of his house for that reason; that you brought an action against him and repeated that charge at great length in your pleadings, and that the Court characterized your statement as a criminal offence—I think I know a Miss Catherine Nasmyth, a daughter of Mr. Nasmyth, who is consequently, I suppose, a niece of yours—when you were ill at the beginning of the year I did not send to your lodging to inquire whether you were dead—I did not order my servant to slam the door in your face when you called to say you were alive—I have not been in the habit of causing you to be annoyed by people following you about the town—I did not cause the landlord of the New York Hotel to turn you from his door on the pretence that you were a Revolutionist or an Abolitionist—I never insinuated to any person connected with the Religious Tract Society that you were an Atheist so as to get you deprived of your employment there; I am not acquainted with any person connected with it; I did not cause it to be done—abont 28th May I had you up before the police at Westminster on a charge of attempting to provoke me to a breach of the peace (The defendant here read from a newspaper a report of the proceedings at the police-court on that occasion)—that is correct—it is true that I interceded with Mr. Paynter, the Magistrate, to reduce the amount of your bail—I believe I succeeded in impressing upon the Magistrate that you were labouring under an extraordinary delusion, not with regard to your relationship, of which I knew nothing—my reason for summoning you was that I thought your statement so violent that you must be a dangerous lunatic—I knew nothing whatever of you except by the letters you had written to me—I placed the letters in the Magistrate's hands, and he decided that the proper course was to grant a warrant—I did not instruct the officers to catch you early in the morning and pull you along in your slippers—I do not know whether it was upon my intercession that the Magistrate reduced the bail—I think at first he ordered you to be detained for three months, in default of sureties which were to be 80l.; and upon a statement from some one that knew you that you were in very poor circumstances, and jour landlord seeming to have a difficulty in bailing you out, I asked the Magistrate to make it within your means, as my only object was to have you taken care of—I did not go off with your landlord so as to prevent his bailing you; I never spoke to him—I am not aware that Mr. Paynter afterwards stated in open court that this report of my interposition was false, and that he reduced the bail on his own account—I do not know that Mr. Robert Nasmyth and his wife inherit a sum of 8,000l. lying in the bank belonging to your uncle, or that another sister of yours married to a brother of Mr. Nasmyth's has inherited another sum of 8,000l—I am not aware that 24,000l. was left in the bank—I am not aware of any circumstances connected with your property or your uncle's, or any of your family—I know nothing about it—I never heard that my uncle, who is here to-day, had got hold of it, on the contrary, I believe he was expressly excluded from the will—I do not know that your brothers and sisters are almost starving—I know nothing about the money matters—I never busied myself about it in anyway whatever; and, except from what I have heard within the last two days, I was ignorant that there had been any money to which you could by any possibility have succeeded; certainly I had nothing to do with it or with any other property to which you could have become entitled in any way—I did not get Major Nasmyth in Sydney to insinuate that a younger brother of yours, who camo in for a third of the property, was
dead—I did not get him to pnt an advertisement in the "Sydney Herald" enquiring if any such person as Charles Jobson was alive—I am not aware that it was done; I never heard of it—I know nothing about the whole of the money beiug in their hands until your brother unexpectedly turned up the other day to take his third.
Q. I believe you persisted in your representation that I was in no degree connected with you until my brother made his appearance and recognised me? A. The first time I had an opportunity of answering a question on the subject was at the preliminary inquiry at the police-court when I was examined on this case, and in answer to a question from yourself as to whether I now knew who you were, I said I did, and I told you when I became informed of it, while you were in the House of Detention, because I made it my study to inquire who you were—I had not inquired during the preceding twelve months; I had uo concern in inquiring—the only question I ever asked about you at all was one day when I happened to be travelling in the same railway-carriage with my uncle, who is here to-day, and I said "I have had a series of letters from an extraordinary person, who says you have got some of his money; I suppose there is no truth in it?" and he said "Certainly not"—I believe that was the only question I ever asked about you—I know nothing about your brother's airival except that I was informed after your remand that you had been bailed out, that a brother of yours had arrived from Australia and procured bail for you; but certainly the statement as to your relationship did not depend upon your brother's arrival—I am not aware that while you were in the House of Detention your residence was broken into and all your property and papers carried off—I have not got possession of all the papers connected with the will that were stolen on that occasion—I got possession of the verses that have been produced, By my wife receiving them and forwarding them to me by post—all the letters I got from you since this prosecution began are in the hands of my solicitor—I think Inspector Bray stated to me that you had told him that you had written to Captain Hill to get the verses back—I never heard that you stated you were exceedingly sorry the verses had reached my wife's hands—I never heard any expression of regret that they had reached my wife, except from yourself in Court; you stated it several times—I have never inquired whether the inspector had such a letter—on the occasion of your second arrest you were brought up on a warrant—as soon as I received these verses from my wife I immediately directed a prosecution—I burned and disregarded a number of letters of yours before that, yery libellous against myself, but as soon as I received these verses I directed a prosecution—I received them while I was in Scotland with my militia; on 20th June, I think—I believe my solicitor applied for a warrant, but I do not know how it was done; I gave no special instructions—I do not know that you were dragged out of bed at six in the morning.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. I believe the letter of 21st December was the first that you preserved? A. Yes—between the date of the letters to which the defendant has referred in February or May, 1858, and 21st December, 1859, I must have received several letters; there had been a series of letters—there was one which was communicated to me by Sir William Dunbar; that was this year—there were two of which Sir William Dunbar told me; one was quite lately, about the same date as that to Mr. Disraeli, but there was one before; I don't know the date of that—I believe Sir William did not inform me of it for a good while afterwards, and then quite by chance—he had not taken much notice of it—in the letter to which the defendant has referred
there was a statement that the matter might be amicably arranged, and if not, painful family disclosures would take place—I cannot remember about, the date of that, for I had so many letters I attached no importance to them and burnt them.
Prisoner. Q. I believe, with a view of prejudicing my case to the Magistrates, you said that Sir William Dunbar had not answered my letter but had treated me with supreme contempt? A. I said I believed he had taken no notice of your letter—I have since been informed that he simply acknowledged it—I had not a paper war with Sir William Dunbar at the time—some correspondence passed between us a good while ago, I believe during the same year as your correspondence with me—there was not a similar correspondence going on with my late father-in-law.
Sir William Dunbar was called and sworn but not examined.
ROBERT BRAY . I am inspector of police, on duty at the House of Commons—I have seen the defendant in the lobby of the House of Commons on several occasions and spoken to him—on Sunday, the 13th or 14th May last he called at my house and said he wanted me to go to Marlborough-street tomorrow morning as the Magistrate wanted to see me—I said "What about?"—he said, "Oh, I yesterday applied to him for a summons to compel Sir James Ferguson to restore to me all letters which had been lost by me, or stolen from me, and I told the Magistrate you knew Sir James Ferguson had got those letters"—I said at once, "I know nothing of the kind"—I did not know it—he said he had given oath or could give oath that I had told him so—I said it was untrue, I had never told him so, that I never knew Sir James Ferguson had got the letters—he said, "Very well, then I wish you to go at once to Sir James Ferguson"—he pulled some papers from his pocket, amongst them a letter, and asked me to read it—it was a letter addressed to the Electors of Brighton; Sir George Pechell had just died, and he said he was invited to go and stand for Brighton, that it required money, and if I would go at once to Sir James Ferguson and ask him to give him 500l. I might compromise the matter on any reasonable terms—of course I knew not what to compromise, and I said, "What would Sir James Ferguson think of me? you have mistaken me altogether, I am but a policeman; I don't even know where Sir James Ferguson lives, I have only spoken to him once or twice"—he said, "I thought you were perfectly intimate with him, and had power to arrange this for me"—I said, "Oh, no"—he saw that I did not intend to go to Sir James Ferguson and he then left.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you come up to me one night in the House of Commons and mention that Sir James Ferguson had just stated to you that I had addressed improper letters to his wife? A. No—I received two letters from you, which I have in my pocket.
SIR JAMES FERGUSON (re examined). Inspector Bray told me one night in the House of Commons that a man of the name of Jobson had come down making charges against me of theft and perjury—I said I did not want to know anything about him—I think I said he had written some very improper verses and sent to my wife, for which I meant to prosecute him—the inspector did not communicate to me any expression of regret on the defendant's part that these verses had reached my wife—there was an expression of regret in a letter.
The defendant, in the course of a very long address, enumerated to the Jury a variety of letters which he stated he had received from eminent individuals, in order to show that he was not the obscure and unknown person which the witnesses for the prosecution had insinuated; he then proceeded to state that, on learning the death of his uncle, lie came over from America and took steps on
his brother's behalf to gain possession of the property to which that brother was entitled; that he was opposed and thwarted in his efforts and was induced to make a personal matter of it, and to use strong language, whicht as between relatives he conceived he was entitled to do; that his communications to Mr. Disraeli and other members of Parliament should have been considered as privileged communications, as his object in addressing those gentlemen was to obtain redress through the medium of Parliament; with respect to the verses, he stated that after being returned to him by Captain Hill he either lost them or they had been stolen and were posted by some person without his authority.
GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury on account of his illness.
Confined Twelve Months, and to find sureties to keep the peace for one year at the expiration of that period.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, August 14th, 1860.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CONDER; and ROBERT MALCOLM KEBB, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution. AMELIA FRY. I am barmaid at Peele's Hotel, Fleet-street—on Thursday, 2d August, I was serving there about half-past 3 o'clock—the prisoner came in for a glass half-past-half; I served him—he put a shilling on the counter; I took it up and found it was bad—I gave it back to him—he tried it himself and put it in his pocket and gave me another shilling—I sounded it any though it was good—I put it in the till—I gave him 10 1/2d. change—Miss Pivott went to the till and she called my attention to it—I went back to the till and found only one shilling in it; the shilling that the prisoner had given me—I took it out and found that also was a bad one—the prisoner was still at the bar—another young lady told the prisoner it was bad—he made no answer—at that time Mr. Brown, the proprietor, came to the bar and gave the prisoner into custody—the shilling that was taken out of the till Miss Pivott gave to me—I put it on the counter, and Mr. Brown took it up and gave it to the constable.
Prisoner. Q. Are you certain that the second shilling was produced from the same drawer that you put the one in? A. Yes; the shilling that I put in the drawer was taken out by the other young lady; that was the only shilling in the drawer.
till and gave it to her—she tried it and put it down on the counter—I saw Mr. Brown take it up—there was no other shilling in the drawer.
NEVILLE BROWN . I am the proprietor of Peele's Hotel—on 2d August I saw the prisoner at the bar—the last witness said in his presence, "This man has been attempting to pass two bad shillings"—there was one on tho counter, and Miss Pivott took it up and gave it to me—I said, "Where is the other shilling?" and the prisoner took it out of his pocket and gave it to me—the officer was sent for; the prisoner was given into custody—I gave the two shillings to the officer.
GEORGE HILL (City-policeman, 315). I was sent for to Mr. Brown's—I found the prisoner there—I received from Mr. Brown these two shillings—I took the prisoner to the station; I found on him a sixpence in silver, and six-pennyworth of copper—I asked him where he resided; he refused to give his address or who he worked for or had been working for.
Prisoner's Defence. I received a half-sovereign on Saturday evening from my relations in Westminster-road. I went to a public-house and had some dinner and got change. I then went and called for the half-and-half; I offered a shilling, which was refused; I put it to my teeth and put it in my pocket. I said I would take good care it should deceive no one else. I put down another and that being bad Mr. Brown asked for the other, which I immediately gave him—it is not likely I shoud have done it knowing it to be bad.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
MARGARET TOWNSEND . My husband keeps a public-house at Hounslow—on 9th July I was serving there—the prisoner came there about 5 o'clock, in company with another man—I served the prisoner a pint of ale, and then with a second and a third—he then asked fora bed, and we could not accommodate him—he went away and returned between 7 and 8 o'clock the same evening, alone—I served him a pint of ale; he offered me a florin in payment—I tested it and found it was bad—I said, "This is a bad one," and I bent it—he looked at it and said it had been tried before as there were two marks on it—he thep took his pocket-book out of his pocket and gave me a good Bhilling, and I gave him 9d. change—he said he had been on Wimbledoncommon and got the florin there—he asked me the name of the person at the next public-house—I said Broughton—he went away and came and said he had got a bed there—he did not take the florin away with him—when I told him it was bad he went to the front door and threw it into a field of tares—Cole afterwards pointed out a place to me, and it was exactly in that direction that the prisoner had thrown away something—after he left my house I went to the Windmill and found the prisoner in the tap-room—he asked Mrs. Broughton what his supper was, and she told him 4d.—he took out a 2s. piece and tendered it to her—she said it was a bad one and gave it him back—I then said, "It is the same one he offered me"—he said, "Do you want to hang me?"—he had the florin in his hand—I asked him to allow me to look at it, but he did not—the policeman was at the door and we called him in and the prisoner was taken—he gave the florin in his hand to the police-officer, and I then found it was not the same that he had offered me.
Prisoner. Q. Did you ask me to throw the florin on the fire? A. Yes, I
said, "Put it on the tap-room fire"—I saw you throw that or something else across to the field—I put the florin between my teeth—I can't tell whether I took both my hands to bend it—I took particular notice of it and of you too, or I should not have followed you.
CATHARINE BROUGHTON . I keep a public-house at Hounslow—the prisoner came to my house on 9th July—he had a pint of ale, and paid in coppers—he then asked if I would let him have a bed—I told him I would, and he gave me a shilling to take for it, and I gave him 4d. change—he left, and he came back about half-past 9 o'clock—he had some bacon and gave me a 2s. piece to pay for it—I said to him, "It is a very bad one"—he got up, and said he had got no more money—I said, "You must have more money, I gave you change for a shilling"—while this was going on the last witness came in and saw me give him the bad florin back—she said, "Will you allow me to look at that 2s. piece?"—the prisoner said he should not—she said, "You are the gentleman that gave me a bad 2s. piece"—and she called in the policeman—he came in and the prisoner was given in custody—the last witness asked the policeman to allow her to see the 2s. piece, and she looked at it and said, "That is not the one that he gave me," and he took the prisoner in custody.
Prisoner. Q. Was the last witness in the place when I gave you the 2s. piece? A. She was at the door and she saw me give you the 2s. piece back—there was not a man sitting next to you.
HENRY COLE . I am a labourer—on 18th July, I was cutting some tares in a field opposite Mrs. Townaend's—I found a counterfeit florin about thirty yards from her door—I took it to Mr. Townsend, and gave it him.
THOMAS TROWBRIDGE (Policeman, T 122). I went to Mrs. Broughton's house on 9th July at a quarter before 10 o'clock—I found the prisoner there—I asked him to give me the florin that he had tendered to Mrs. Broughton—he denied having it, and said he had not got it; but he afterwards opened his hand and gave it to me—I took him to the station and searched him—I found on him 3s. 6d. in silver, and 9s. in copper, all good—he said that the other florin he had thrown down in the road, and no one would be able to find it—I produce the florin I got from the prisoner, and one I got from Mr. Townsend.
Prisoner. Q. Had you not seen me on the road? A. No; you gave me the money after I asked you for it.
Prisoner. Q. Was anything said about the price of the ale? A. You asked for old ale, I said that was 4d. but you might have other ale at 3d.
Prisoner's Defence. I came from Dover up to Wimbledon; I had got no money; I went to work with another man and we earned 30s. and shared it between us on Saturday night, and whether I got the money there I can't tell; and some gentleman gave me a half-sovereign to take 5s. for putting up a booth—it was money I had worked hard for, and I was not aware it was bad.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
half-and-half; he put down a shilling on the table—my wife gave him change, she put down a sixpence and 4d. in copper, and she put the shilling in her pocket—the prisoner and the woman drank the half-and-half and went away—in about twenty minutes my wife had to pay some money, and she took the shilling out of her pocket, and it was a bad one—it was the only one she had—I went after the prisoner and found him in a beer-shop, about a mile and a half from mine—I told him he had given me a bad shilling—he made some little difficulty, but I told him if he did not give me another I should see further into it—he then gave me a sixpence and sixpenny-worth of coppers.
Prisoner. Q. Did your wife give any change after I was there? A. No; I can swear she had no other shilling—she never left my presence till she took it out of her pocket—I can swear she had no other money but two sixpences—I saw you put the shilling on the table; my wife took it up and put it in her pocket—I am positive she had no other—I had just previously had all the silver—I did not say that I thought it was a good shilling—nothing of the kind.
PHOEBE CROMWELL . I assist my mother, who keeps a beer-house—on 24th July, the prisoner came there—he asked for half a pint of 6d. ale—I served him, and he gave me a half-crown—I put it to my mouth and found it was bad—he took it out of my hand and went away—he did not drink his ale, he left it there—I am quite sure the half-crown was bad.
Prisoner. Q. How do you know it was bad? A. I put it to my teeth—there were not a great many people there drinking, only myself—I did not say the ale was flat—you did not look at the ale, you looked at me all the while—I would have given you the change if the half-crown had been good, but it was bad, it was like a piece of lead.
GEORGE CONQUEST . I keep a public-house at Acton—on 24th July the prisoner came for half a pint of porter—I served him and he gave me a bad shilling—I said, "This is a bad shilling;" and I bent it on the counter—he said, "You have no business to bend it"—he snatched it up and went to the door, and with an oath he threw it over the hedge—I sent for a policeman—the prisoner asked to go in the yard; I went with him—he put his hand in his pocket and drew it out, and I saw there was a shilling in it—I said, "You have got a shilling in your hand;" he said, "No; I have not;" and he threw it over the wall—I called out, "Look out—a shilling is coming over the wall"—Cunningham saw the Shilling and he picked it up and brought it round.
Prisoner. Q. Did I have half a pint of porter and a screw of tobacco? A. No; no tobacco at all—I did not give you any change out of your shilling—I did not take the shilling off the counter to the sideboard—I gave change for another shilling, to a woman who came in—she gave me a good shilling, which I gave her change for—you told me you took the shilling from Mr. Priest—you went to the door—I did not go after you into the road; I never left the door—there might be five or six persons there, but afterwards twenty or thirty came—you did not try to make your escape, I detained you till the policeman came—my wife drew you one half-pint of porter, you wanted more and I would not let her serve you—I gave you no change—you went in the tap-room, and then asked me to let you go in the yard, and I went with you—I did not take hold of your wrist and say I saw a shilling in your hand—no such thing—you threw a shilling over the wall—that was not the same shilling that you gave me—the one you gave me you threw away with an oath.
MR. BEST. Q. The one he gave you was bent? A. Yes; and the one that Cunningham found was not bent.
WILLIAM CUNNINTHAM . I am a labourer and reside at Acton—I was coming along the road that evening, I saw a shilling on the road right before me—I picked it up, and Mr. Conquest came round and asked if anybody had seen a shilling come over—I said, "No; I had not seen one come over but I had picked up one;" and I gave it to Mr. Conquest.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me throw a shilling in the corn-field? A. No—I did not say on your first hearing that I found a shilling in the corn-field—it was on the road I found it.
Prisoner. Q. Did you find any bad money on me? Witness. A. No.
Prisoners Defence. I went down to Brentford, and was labouring there two days; I went from there to Feltham and worked there about a week; I then worked for Mr. Priest till the 23d July. I went to Mr. Cooper's; I gave the man the shilling, and I walked on to the next place, and the man came and said it was a bad shilling. I went to Hounslow and bought a pair of shoes, and paid 2s. 6d. for them. I then went and offered the halfcrown, and they said it was had. I came back to Mr. Priest's, and my wife was ill; she stayed there while I went for the porter and the screw of tobacee, and he gave me change 8d. out of the shilling.
GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury, one of whom knew him twenty years ago as an honest, hard-working man. — Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM GOOCH . I am assistant to Elizabeth Gooch, who keeps an eating-house in Whitechapel-road—on Saturday night, 28th July, the prisoner came at a little before 12 o'clock at night for a pennyworth of pudding—I served him, and he gave me a shilling—I looked at it and said it was bad; I broke it in the detector in two pieces; I laid them on the counter—the prisoner took from his waistcoat pocket a 2s. piece and held it in his hand—I said, "That is a bad one, let me look at it"—he said, "Oh, no, I don't think it is"—I had before told the boy to shut the door, and I went round the counter and beckoned to an officer who was there in plain clothes—I seized the prisoner, but before I seized him he put his right hand in which the florin was to his mouth—I seized him by the throat, and, as the officer came, I said, "He is swallowing a bad 2s. piece"—the officer seized him and took him in custody—he searched him in the shop; he fouud on him some silver, some coppers, and a florin, which he laid on the counter—it was a bad florin—the officer took possession of the two pieces of the shilling.
Prisoner. Q. When I put my hand to my pocket did I put it back again? Witness. A. You put your hand to your mouth, you did not do anything else with it—there were two or three customers there; not seven or eight—I came round the counter, and said, "You are swallowing a two-shilling piece"—I saw you had it in your right hand, and your right hand went to your mouth.
prisoner came in, and I heard the last witness say, "This is a bad one"—he tried it in the detector and laid it down on the counter—he beckoned me immediately afterwards—I went, and saw the shilling lying on the counter, broken in two; these are the pieces of it—the last witness had hold of the prisoner, and said he was trying to swallow a bad two-shilling piece—I seized him by the throat, and he made a gulp as though he swallowed it—I asked him to open his mouth; he eaid, "I have got seven or eight there, put your finger in and feel" I said, "No, I will see what you have about you first"—I searched him, and in his breast coat-pocket I found a bad 2s. piece, four sixpences, and 9 1/2d. in copper—I put the money on the counter, and Mr. Gooch said, "That is a bad 2s. piece"—I said I did not think it was, but he tried it and it was bad—the prisoner asked me who I was, I told him I was a police-constable—he resisted very violently; I had to put the handcuffs on him to take him—I think there were only three persons in that room—none of them got hold of the florin.
Prisoner's Defence. I went for a pennyworth of pudding, I laid the shilling on the counter; he broke it and said it was bad; I put my hand in my pocket and took out this 2s. piece; he said that was bad, I said; "No, I am sure it is not," and I put it in my pocket again, and when the policeman took me he took it out of my pocket again. There were two or three persons looked at my money and said it was good. In going to the station the policeman took my two arms and put them behind me; I told him not to press me too hard.
GUILTY .*— Confined Two years.
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
BARNARD CASSIDY (City-policeman, 518). I produce a certificate of a former conviction (Read: "Central Criminal Court, December, 1858.—Robert Maggs was convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and ordered to be confined fifteen months'")—I was present—the prisoner is the person who was then convicted.
ELIZABETH EPITAUX . I am the wife of Charles Epitaux, a confectioner, 3, Pall Mall—about the beginning of July I remember the prisoner coming perfectly well; I think he had a Bath bun—he gave me a 2s. piece, and I gave him change—I put the 2s. piece in the place where shillings are put, and after he left I found it was bad—I thought it might be a mistake—I tested it and threw it in the fire—on the 11th or 12th of July the prisoner came again in a different dress; he had a light coat and a straw hat—he had a Bath bun, and gave me a shilling—I gave him 10d. change, and as I gave it him I recognised him—he went away—I bent the shilling and put it in a little box by itself—on 21st July the prisoner came again—he then had a cheesecake and a glass of port wine—he gave me a half-crown—I tried it and found it was bad—I told him it was the third time he had passed bad money, and I called the waiter to fetch a policeman—I gave the half-crown to the waiter—the prisoner took it from him and bent it up, and put it in his mouth—I am sure it was bad.
Prisoner. Q. When did I first come to your shop? Witness. A. I don't know the day exactly, to the best of my knowledge it was about the beginning of July; about a week before you gave me the shilling—I don't exactly recollect what time of the day it was—I think you had a Bath bun—I gave you the proper change out of 2s.—I will not swear whether it was three weeks before you were taken, or a month, or five weeks before—my motive
for taking the two-shilling pieoe out of the till after you were gone was the remark you made when I gave you the change—I believe it was on the I lth or 12th that you came again; you then gave me a shilling—I recognised yours being the man who came before—I did not tell you it was a bad shilling—I thought I knew you at first, but when I gave you the change I recognised you—I allowed you to go out of the shop without telling you the shilling was bad because it is a very unpleasant thing—you came again about a week afterwards; I will not swear it was not ten days—I bent the shilling and put it in a little box which stood at the end of the counter—the box is open—I am not always in the shop, other persons are thera.
COURT. Q. Were there other persons there when you put that ahilling in? A. No.
MR. BEST. Q. Are you quite sure he is the man that came the first, second, and third time? A. Yes.
FRANCIS MATTHAY . I am waiter to the last witness—on 21st July I was in the shop—she gave me a bad half-crown—I saw the prisoner in the shop—I took him by the collar; my mistress told me to call a constable, ait hie had been there twice before—the prisoner came with me to the door, and he asked me to let him look at the half-crown—he took it out of my hand and bit a piece off it—the piece fell down just by the door-step; I saw it afterwards on the mat—the prisoner tried to pick it up himself—I could not find it afterwards—the policeman came, and the prisoner was given in custody.
Prisoner. Q. What did you do with the half-crown? A. I had it in my hand and you took it out of my hand—I did not mark it; I did not say that I examined it—you said, "Let me look at it"—you took it out of my hand at once—you bit a piece off; the. piece fell on the ground, you put the other in your mouth—the servant-maid was by the side of the bar, washing plates.
MR. BEST. Q. Did you examine the prisoner's mouth? A. I said to the policeman, "He has got a half-crown in his mouth."
HENY ROUGH , (Policeman, A 310). I was sent for on the 21st July, about 3 o'clock—I found the prisoner, the last witness had hold of him, he gave him into my charge and told me to be careful as he bad got some money in his mouth—I asked him to open his mouth, but I could not find any money there—Mrs. Epitaux told me he had got it in his mouth, and she said he had been there twice before—she gave me this bad shilling—I asked the prisoner if he had got any more, he said,"No *—I found on him 1l. 10s. in gold, 3s. in silver, and id. in copper—I asked him where he pat the half-crown—he said it was in the area—I searched, but it was not there—he said I should find the piece in the road, but there was none there—he gave the name of Augustus Maggs.
Prisoner. Q. When you asked me to open my mouth did I refuse? A. No—nothing but good money was found on you.
Prisoner (handing some pieces to the witness). Q. What are these that I have given you? A. They are pieces of a bad half-crown, but it has not been broken by the mouth—it has been broken, and the pieces hare been filed afterwards.
Prisoner's Defence. Here are the pieces of the half-crown; I broke it in my cell. I had a sovereign, a half-sovereign, 3 shillings, and a half-crown. I gave the half-crown to the prosecutrix and she gave it to the waiter; I asked him to allow me to look at it, and I bent it and a piece broke off. It is quite clear that, as the prosecutrix swears, I did swallow it; it has
passed through me, and there it is. I examined it, and broke it in pieces, and here they are, and no one can say but that they are the pieces that passed through me. Where is the piece that fell on the floor? There were three or four other gentlemen there; why was it not picked up and produced? Because it was good. The constable came in and I said it might have fallen down the area; they went down, and in the deposition it is stated that they were there ten minutes. Were I charged with smuggling away that piece that was on the floor, the Jury could not say that I was guilty; but merely because I was convicted before I must be guilty of uttering the coin. I called my wife to see what I had done, and she said, "Throw it away;" and had it been bad I would have done so. The lady would not swear what day I was there first, and she says she put the shilling in the box because she suspected me; she never told me, but took the shilling, and afterwards said it was bad; would any gentleman take a bad piece and allow a man to leave the shop without telling him? She says, to the best of her knowledge, it was on the 11th or 12th of July, and I was at Colchester, I received a letter there and answered it on the 12th, and that answer will be produced. My friends saw me off on the 2d of July, and I did not return till the 17th. Here are my friends who saw me off; I also forwarded in that letter ten shillings'-worth of postage stamps to my brother.
The Prisoner called
JAMES MAGGS . I saw the prisoner off to Colchester on the 2d July, and I saw him come home on the 17th—I am positive I saw him come from the station on the 17th VI received a letter from a gentleman, which the postage stamps were sent in.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Where do you live? At 2, Plummerstreet, City-road—I did lodge with Mr. Jones, a horse-dealer in Caledonian-road—I was with him about 9 months, but he has sold off now—I believe he still lives in the same house—I have been out of employ 9 days—before I worked for Mr. Jones I worked for a tallow-chandler, in Islington, just by the Angel—I was tried here in February 1859, for passing bad money; I was convicted and sentenced to four months—I visited my brother at the House of Detention—I can't say whether it was the day before he was committed—the gentleman who gave me the letter with the postage stamps, was Mr. Henry Devonport, 14, William-street, Curtain-road.
EMILY MAGGS . The prisoner left London on 2d July; and my brother James saw him off by the train—I received several letters and I answered them to Colchester—he returned on the 17th July—I and my brother James were at the station to receive him—I am positive I saw him off on the 2d., and back on the 17th—I know his handwriting—this letter (looking at one) is his handwriting.
COURT. Read it. A. I can't read writing—I know this is his writing because I have had letters from him.
Prisoner. (Producing another paper). Here is my handwriting; compare them, and you will see it is my writing; here is a proof of my innocence, a letter in my own handwriting. When I was visited by my brother there was a bar between us, and it was impossible for me to receive anything. There is an officer walking up and down the room, how could it come to me. The prosecutrix says that I came there on the 11th or 12th, and the very thing that would prove my innocence is denied me—I declare to my God that that is the same half-crown I took to that woman, and it paswed through me; I was sent here because I was the undefended man.
There is the letter, there is my sister, there is a second witness, and there is the half-crown; if you convict me you will convict an innocent man.
GUILTY .**— Fifteen Year's Penal Servitude.
OLD COURT—Wednesday, August 18th, 1860.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. JAUSTICE WILLAMS; Mr. JUSTIC WILLES; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; SIR ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt Ald. M.P.; Mr. Ald. HALE; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and RABERT MALCOLM KERR Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
695. WILLIAM WOODCOCK (34), was indicted for stealing, on 21st July, whilst employed under the Post-office, a post-letter containing 2 halfsovereigns, the property of Her Majesty's Post-master General; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY — Six Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY . The prisoner received a good character.— Four Year's Penal Servitude.
MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY of the attempt — Confined One Year.
MR. PLATT for the prosecution, stated that as the Grand Jury had thrown out the bill in this case, he should offer no evidence against the prisoner.
NOT GUILTY .
699. GEORGE BLAKE (29) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Louis Berge, and stealing therein 2 bracelets and a variety of jewellery, value 700l., his property. Second Count, receiving the name.
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
LOUIS BERGE . I live at 26, John-street, Bedford-row, and am a leatherbag manufacturer—On 13th June, at night, I notioed the staircase window; it was shut—that was before 10 o'clock and after 9—on the following morning I got up about 6 o'clock—the staircase window was then open—I went into the drawing-room; the parlour and drawing-room folding-doors were open and all the silver lay about on the table, chairs, and ground—the things that were scattered about were fruit-baskets made of silver, silver candlesticks, and several dozen knives and forks and spoons—they were all scattered about—upon looking, I found to be missing Mrs. Berge's and my jewellery; several brilliant brooches, and five or six brilliant rings; and all kinds of diamond rings—at the time I thought it was only about 700l. or 800l. worth of jewellery, but it is more than 1,200l. worth—it was private property—they would go into a very small compass—I missed this knife (Produced) from the kitchen; it is my property—I am quite certain of it—
I have a large garden in Germany, and I have always a pleasure in gardeuing, and a few months before I left Germany I bought this knife in Frankfort, and used it every day—I bought it in July or August last year—I used it every day to cut my grapes and other things in gardening; all kinds of things—I am sure it is mine—here is a mark on it; this nail; it is a silver mark—it is English manufacture—a week or so afterwards the constable brought a screwdriver to my house.
Cross-examined by MR. M. J. O'CONNELL. Q. Where do you carry on the leather manufacture? A. On the same premises where I live—my ware-house is in my dwelling house, and the manufactory is in the back building—there are leather goods on my premises; finished goods—Mrs. Berge kept these articles of jewellery in the drawing-room—a tea-pot was taken from me; a sugar basin and a cup, twenty-three forks, two opera-glasses, and a writing-case—I heard nothing of those till a fortnight afterwards—that knife was not brought to me; it was found in the prisoner's room—I was shown the knife afterwards—after the prisoner was taken in custody two officers came to my house and asked if I would go with them to see if there was something found of my property in the prisoner's room, and there they discovered the screwdriver and the knife—the screwdriver was not my property—I put this nail through the knife myself—it goes right through the knife—I did that because it was broken, and I put those two marks in myself—I have a steel manufactory in Germany; it is very easy to do—I make the frames for portemonuaies and bags—this is iron—I used it every day; only when I was in Germany; not since I have come to this country—I have no garden here.
COURT. Q. Can you recollect when you saw it last before the robbery? A. I saw the knife after I went to my present house—that was about seven months before the robbery.
MR. O'CONNELL. Q. Did a policeman take you to the police-station to show it you? A. Not to the station, to the prisoner's room, in Holborn-buildings—the prisoner was taken to the police-court the same morning and I appeared against him—I do not know how long after that he was examined at the police-court—the police did not make any further inquiries of me in the interval—they came to my house every day, but nothing was said about this knife—it is no trifle to lose so much.
WILLIAM FRANKLIN (Policeman, E 20). On 27th June I went to 9, Holborn-buildings, to a room on the second floor—I can't say it is a brothel—I found the prisoner in the room and there was a woman there—the prisoner was drunk, naked, on the floor—I searched the room—in the cupboard I found this small screwdriver—there was a table in the room—I looked in the table-drawer but I took nothing away at that time—I took the prisoner and the woman into custody—after taking them to the station, which was about 3 o'clock, I went to Mr. Berge's and had some conversation with him, and he went with me to the room I had taken the prisoner from; and on searching the room I opened the drawer in the table, and as soon as I did so the prosecutor saw the knife and said, "That is my knife"—that is the knife which I have produced to-day—I took it to the police-station and kept it in my possession—I showed it to the prisoner at the station—he said, "That is my knife M—I afterwards took the screwdriver that I fouud in the cupboard to the prosecutor's—I saw two marks on the folding-doors leading from the drawing-room to the back-parlour—they had been broken open—they exactly fitted the screwdriver in every way; at the point—I showed the screwdriver to the prisoner but he said nothing about it—I
found another knife on him, and a tobacco-box and about 4s. or 5s., which was given up to him afterwards
Cross-examined. Q. What sort of a knife was the other? A. A pocketknife—I believe I saw this knife in the table-drawer the first time; I am not quite sure—it was about 3 in the morning when I took the prisoner—we had a candle, because we needed it—the court is very close; it is rather dark in that place—the cupboard is on the right hand side of the fireplace, and the table is on the left, as you go in at the door—the room is not very large—I do not know where the prisoner's clothes were, for I left him naked in the room while I went up to another room, and he was dressed before I came down again—Sergeant Chance was with me—we went to Mr. Berge's before we went to the police-court; at 7 or 8 o'clock I suppose; we waited till he got up—the woman was remanded twice and ultimately discharged—the prisoner was examined five times; he was remanded not exactly for want of further evidence, but to see if we could trace the property—we did not succeed—I am not quite sure whether I have ever seen any other screwdriver of the same sise as this—I daresay there are plenty; I have seen various sizes—any other of the same size would make a similar mark.
HANNAH MORE . I am the wife of John More—I keep 9, Holborn-buildings—I know the prisoner—I know when he was taken in custody—he had been there about 6 months—I know the room where he was taken in custody—he only had that room.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite sure that the prisoner has lodged there? A. He did not lodge with me; he used to come there to a young woman who took the room—he did not take the room—the young woman, has been lodging there about twelve months—the prisoner used to come and sleep with the young woman there—she had lived there a year, and he was her man for six months—he was not the only man that used to come there, there were others; I could not say how many—I know there were other men because before he came a man used to come to see her—the furniture in the room was mine—I let the room furnished—I could not say whether there might or not have been a man there the night before this occurred—I keep a shop—I don't go out to see every one that goes up and down stairs.
MR. POLAND. Q. Used this man to sleep there frequently? A. Yes; at times—I could not say whether he slept there—I never was in the room while he was in bed—he used to come there backwards and forwards—I have seen him come in at night and go out at times in the morning.
FRANCES KELLER . I am servant to Mr. Berge, and was so on the night of the robbery, 14th June—I know this knife; I had it in the kitchen—I saw it about nine o'clock the night before the robbery—it was in the kitchen; in a drawer—I am quite sure of that—this is the-knife—on the morning after the robbery I went into the kitchen and missed that knife—I found that the things in the kitchen had been disturbed during the night—a drawer was open—those drawers were all right the night before.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you use the knife in the kitchen? A. I saw the knife in the kitchen—I saw it that day and cut something with it; a cabbage-stalk.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, August 15th, 1860.
PRESENT—Mr. Justice WILLES; Mr. REOORDER, and Mr. Ald. HALE.
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
700. WILLIAM WYATT (20) , Stealing a post-letter, containing a half, sovereign and a two-and-a-half dollar piece, the property of the Post-Master General. MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN GARDNER . I am senior clerk in the General Post-office—the prisoner was a letter-carrier in the South Western Office, in Charlotte-street, Pimlico—on 19th July I made up a test-letter; I marked a half-sovereign and an American two-and-a-half dollar piece, and enclosed them in the letter—I fastened the letter with an adhesive stamp, and directed it to Mrs. Rymer, 51, Charles-street, Westminster—rfrom some information I went to the South Western Office about 5 o'clock that day, with Bingham the officer—the prisoner was brought to me, and I asked him if he knew anything of a letter addressed to Mrs. Rymer in Charles-street—he said he did not—on his being searched, Bingham took from his pocket 5s. 9d. and a tobacco-box; and in the tobacco-box were the half sovereign and the two-and-a-half dollar gold piece which I had placed in the letter—these are them—I asked the prisoner how he became possessed of these coins—he said the foreign coin was given him by a female about a fortnight ago, and the half-sovereign was his own and was given him in his wages.
WILLIS CLARE . I am inspector of letter-carriers—on 19th July I received a letter from Mr. Gardner, directed to Mrs. Rymer, 51, Charles-street, Westminster—I posted that letter at half-past eleven o'clock on the morning of that day at the chief office, and it would arrive at the South Western Office in Charlotte-street, about a quarter past 12.
GEORGE HARPER . I am inspector of letter-carriers at the South Western Office in Charlotte-street—the prisoner was a letter-carrier there in July—it was his duty to deliver letters in Charles-street, Westminster—on 19th July I opened a bag containing the letters which came from the General Post-office—there was in that bag a letter directed to Mrs. Rymer, 51, Charles-street, Westminster—that letter was placed with other letters before the prisoner to deliver—he left the office to deliver those letters about two minutes before 2 o'clock—they should have been delivered by him about half-past 3 or a quarter before 4.
WILLIAM RYMER (Policeman, A 595). I reside at 51, Charles-street, Westmiuster—on 19th July I received information that a letter was coming to me—on the afternoon of that day I saw the prisoner delivering letters in Charles-sti eet from about ten minutes before 3 o'clock till about a quarter before 4; off and on—he wag in the street several times but no letter was delivered to me or my wife during that afternoon—I made a communication to Bingham the constable.
Prisoner. Q. Are you certain you saw me? A. I saw you about three minutes to 3 delivering letters—you came down Duke-street and you passed my house three times—I saw you go in a Post-office there.
HENRY BINGHAM . I am police constable attached to the Post-office—on the afternoon of 19th July I searched the prisoner at the South Western Office about 5 o'clock—I took 5s. 9d. from his pocket and this tobacco-box—I opened the tobacco-box and found in it the half-sovereign and the two-and-a-half dollar piece—I gave them to Mr. Gardner.
The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: have nothing more to say except that I am guilty. I hope it may be summarily dealt with here; it is my first offence."
Prisoner's Defence. Owing to the excited state I was in on the day I was committed at Bow-street, and my broken-hearted mother and wife being in
court, and my being in the flurried and nervous state that I was; I beg to recal the plea which I made that I was guilty, it being given unintentionally, as the letter was only detained by me, it not being in a fit state for delivery. The letter would have been delivered in due course, had it not been for the following accident. As I was about commencing my delivery, I went to pull a newspaper out of the bundle of letters, when the string which was round the bundle, only once, broke, it being very rotten, and let some of my letters fall to the ground, and some of them went into a puddle of water; I picked them up and arranged them again as I went along Duke-street, and took a piece of string from my pocket and tied them up afresh, and on arriving at the corner of Charles-street in Duke-street, I thought I would go down and deliver those letters for that street; aud on account of their being wet and my putting my hand at the bottom of the bundle to pull them out, the first one that I went to pull out was the one directed to Mrs. Rymer, 51, Charlesstreet, but, owing to the string being tight round them, the letter would not come out, and I was afraid to slacken the string too much for fear of upsetting my letters again, so I went to pull it out, but rather harder than I intended, when it tore up the middle—the string had cut it through, being wet in the manner shown. On finding that it would not come out without tearing more, I let the string loose; and on looking to see what was the cause, I found the letter contained money, and that the cause of the tearing was that the string had got between the two coins which it contained; on loosing the string more and drawing the letter out, one of the coins fell out on the pavement, which I picked up immediately, and a gentleman that was passing at the time said to me "Postman, that is a very careless way for people to send money in letters like that"—I said it was, and then he said, "If I were you I would take it back to the office, and show it to some one, for they might write to the office and state that some of the money was lost out of the letter, and then you would be blamed"—I replied, "Perhaps it would be the best way to take it back and get the inspector to put it in another envelope, and state to him how it happened"—so I put the letter in my coat pocket and the money in my waistcoat pocket, and went on with my delivery; had I known that this would have happened through it I would have got the gentleman's name and address. When I got to Parliament-street I put my hand into my pocket to see that I had got the letter safe, when I found that the other coin which was in the letter had worked out of the letter into my coat pocket, and on taking it out and looking at it I found it to be a half-sovereign. I took the American coin from my waistcoat pocket and the half-sovereign from my coat pocket, and placed them both in my tobacco-box for safety, as I did not like to put them in my pocket with my own money, nor to have them loose in my waistcoat pocket for fear of their getting out while I was running up and down the stairs to the different offices in Parliament-street. When I had finished my delivery about half-past 3, I did not know what to do about delivering the letter, but I made up my mind not till I had been back to the office and showed it to the inspector; but on arriving at the office at ten minutes past 4 o'clock, which was my time, and the duty being rather heavier than usual, and the short time which is allowed to do the duty in, and the hurrying and driving which there generally is at that hour of the day on account of the men wanting to get out of the office to get their delivery done to go home to their tea, and my being the same as the rest, caused me to forget (but not wilfully) to show the inspector the state of the letter I had in my possession; the consequence was, as I was leaving the office with my delivery about a quarter to 5 o'clock with the other men in
a hurry, I was stopped at the corner of Charlotte-street, Pimlico, by the post-office officials and taken back to the office, to the comptroller's room, where I was asked if I had a letter for Mrs. Rymer, 51, Charles-street, and not thinking for a moment but that what the inspector meant was, had I got one in the bundle which I then had, I stated that I had not seen one, upon which he told the officer to search me, and he found the money in the tobacco-box where I had put it when it came out of the letter, and on being asked about the money I forgot what I was saying; my being taken as I was and never having been in such a position before, made me in that flurried and nervous state that I hardly know what I said or did till it was given in evidence against me at Bow-street the next day; I did not know but what they had got the letter, as they did not ask me for it or ask where it was until I was placed in the cell at Bow-street, and I had been in there about half an hour when I put my hand in the pocket of the coat I am now wearing and found the letter; but being in that state of mind charged with stealing, and thinking it was of no use, I tore it in half and threw it down the closet; but afterwards I was sorry I did for I was told that I ought to have kept it till my trial, to show; I can solemnly declare I had no intention of detaining the letter for any other purpose but to show the inspector as I was advised; had I been allowed to go with the delivery, which I had when, I was stopped, the letter would have been delivered to whom it was directed, as I should have thought of it when I got to the ground again. The original letter was destroyed in the cell; here is one like it (handing one in).
COURT to GEORGE HARPER. Q. Was the letter in the state in which this is when you placed it before the prisoner? A. No, it was perfectly safe; it was not torn at all.
COURT to HENRY BINGHAM. Q. When you searched the prisoner did you search all his pockets? A. Yes; there was no envelope on him whatever.
Prisoner. The letter was in the side pocket of my coat.
Witness. No; I made you take it off and searched the whole of it, every pocket I could find, and I asked you repeatedly if there were any more pockets—you were taken in custody when I searched you.
The prisoner received a good character.— GUILTY .— Four Year's Penal Servitude.
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE THOMPSON . I am shopman to Mr. John Bentley, of Bishopsgate street—on the morning of 9th July, the prisoner came in about half-past 9 o'clock—he looked at some handkerchiefs, and ultimately bought one—while I turned my back to get another out of the window I observed him stooping down in a suspicious manner—he gave me 5s. for the handkerchief which he bought—I then accused him, and I went round to the door to look for a policeman—I saw the prisoner throw these handkerchiefs from his person on the counter—I saw him throw them out of his hand—I found the bundle of handkerchiefs behind the counter—it is not likely that I or any one in the shop would throw them there in that way—they had been in the box on the counter.
Prisoner. It was my own handkerchief that was on the counter, and I put my hand and took it up—I had no other—my handkerchief was on the counter, and as he went to the door I took it up.
shop; the last witness had got hold of the prisoner—I saw this parcel of handkerchiefs lying on the other side of the counter—they were strewed all about the floor—the prisoner gave an address, but I could not find him.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. MCDONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
JACOB BEAUMONT . I am a private in the Grenadier Guards—I was with Alfred Smith, who is a private soldier, on 18th July, in Westminster—there were some women there, and I saw the prisoner—he struck me in the right eye with a knife which he took from his right hand pocket—I had not given him any provocation nor spoken to him at all—it was about 5 o'clock in the evening.
Cross-examined by MR. ERNEST JONES. Q. What had you been doing? A. We had had three pints of beer—we had no spirits—I was quite sober—there was a woman named Coverly there—I did not do anything to her—I had not my belt on—it was taken off in the crowd—I can't say how it came off—it fell off when I wad in the crowd—I can't say how it was taken off—there were a good many people—Smith's belt was off—it was brought to me afterwards—I went to get my comrade away when the prisoner struck me—I never gave him any provocation—the prisoner was standing stilt and he made a grab at me—I was not struggling with any one—Smith was down on the ground, and a good many persons were on the top of him—I went to release him from those people—I could not do anything—I tried to get at him, but I could not—I only tried to get through the crowd—there were a good many things thrown at me, but I could not tell by whom—I suppose there were 300 or 400 persons—the prisoner, without saying anything to me, drew out this knife and struck me—it was not a clasp-knife—he said it was a knife he had for his own business—he pulled it out of his right-hand trousers' pocket—I saw at the time that it was round at the top—I saw the knife in his hand first—I saw that it was round at the top at the time he struck me—I did not know that he was going to strike; he rushed at me like a tiger, unawares—I had no idea he was going to do it—I swear I was quite sober.
MR. MCDONNELL. Q. You were going to rescue your comrade Smith? A. Yes; my belt was brought to me—I had not taken it off.
COURT. Q. Did it appear that there had been a quarrel in which the prisoner had been engaged? A. Yes.
WILLIAM KIRK (Policeman, A 268). On 18th July I was sent for—I met the last witness and another soldier—the witness had his belt off, and his face was covered with blood—he said he was stabbed—I took two persons in custody who were charged by Smith.
Cross-examined. Q. In what state was the last witness and Smith? A. They were not sober—I saw a knife; my brother constable has it.
RICHARD STOKES (Policeman, B 68). On 18 July I met Beaumont and Smith, but the prisoner was not there—they made a statement to me, and I went to the place where Beaumont stated the row had taken place—I saw the prisoner, and Beaumont who was with me said, "That is the man that, struck me"—I took the prisoner in custody—this knife was found on him—I examined his clothes, his pocket was full of blood.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you notice any stains on the knife? No; there was no fight at that time—the soldiers' belts were off.
of 18th July the prosecutor was taken to the hospital—I examined him about 5 o'clock, he had a wound under the right eye; it was three-quarters of an inch long—a clean incised wound—it was just through the skin—this knife would have inflicted that wound.
Cross-examined. Q. Might not the wound have been caused by a flint or stone, or by the sharp edge of a scale? A. It must have been a sharp instrument to cause that wound—it might be caused by any sharp instrument—it was partly a stab and partly a cut—it was but a slight wound—this knife might have produced a more serious wound.
MARY ANN MANNING . My husband is a private in the Scotch Fusilier Guards—On 18th July I saw a mob of a great many people together—I looked round and I saw a soldier—I then saw another soldier in the road; that was Beaumont—a great many people had scales and weights, and Smith was down—I saw the prisoner there, and I saw him strike Beaumont with his right hand—he struck him with a sharp instrument, I could not say whether it was this knife or not—he cut him in the eye—the moment he turned round I saw the eye bleeding.
Cross-examined. Q. How come you to go? A. Seeing a great many people I went to see what they were about—there was a great crowd—he struck him with the hand that had the knife in it—there were a great number of persons beating Smith with some things—I saw the prisoner strike Beaumont, he was doing nothing—he was turning round to go away—he was coming to assist Smith—when he got the stab he was standing in the midst of it—Beaumont was sober, but the other soldier had been drinking—I was not watching Beaumont for some time—I don't suppose that altogether it was more than 5 minutes—I was not pushed about by the crowd, I was coming away—the crowd was behind me—they must have pushed me—I was not looking about, I was passing between the people—I could not get past without looking at them—I was standing still to see what was the matter at the time this happened—there were a great many people round me—I was five or six yards from the place.
CAROLINE PETCHER . My husband is in the Coldstream Guards—on 18th July, between 5 and 6 o'clock, I was coming down Strutton-ground—there were two soldiers—Beaumont was in the road, and I saw Smith, and there was a mob—there were three women; there two were behind Smith, and one with a piece of board and the other with a boot, struck Smith on the head, and one struck him on the face—she ran into a potato-shop, and he went to go in, and the other two women pushed him in—Beaumont came up and went towards Smith—the prisoner came up and struck Beaumont, but I don't know what with.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there a very great crowd? A. Yes; I am quite certain that the prisoner struck Beaumont in the face—I could not say that he struck him in the eye—Beaumont was not sober, and he was not to say drunk—I had never seen the prisoner or Beaumont before—the fight was just over—I was rather alarmed—as soon as the blow was struck I went to see for a policeman—I should think it all took from a quarter of an hour to twenty minutes—I was not there all the time—when I saw the blood on the man's eye I was behind him, I might have been five or six yards off him—Beaumont had his belt in his hand, and I asked him not to use it, as there were so many persons standing by, they might get hurt with it.
Witnesses for the Defence.
EMILY COVERLY . I live with my father and mother in Turner-street—on 18th July I was with my mother in Strutton-ground—two soldiers came along—one of then hit me, and my mother asked them what they did that
for, and one of them made a kick at her—I saw the prisoner fighting with Smith—the prisoner did not strike Beaumont; I am confident he never touched him.
Cross-examined by MR. DONNELL. Q. How long were you there altogether? A. About ten minutes—the row had not begun when I came up; it began when me and my mother and father were together, and Smith touched me—I did not go away before the row was over—I saw Beaumont, but I did not see him struck at all—I saw the prisoner fighting with Smith, and from that time I kept my eye on the prisoner.
MR. JONES. Q. Did you see the prisoner the whole time? A. Yes, and he never struck Beaumont.
THOMAS EVANS . I live at 42, Strutton-ground—I was present during the row on 18th July—I saw the prisoner there—I know Beaumont—the prisoner did not fight him or touch him in any way at all—I had an opportunity of seeing them; the persons were fighting right before our shop—I was outside and looking on; I saw the prisoner all the time, and I swear he never touched Beaumont at all.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Beaumont's eye bleeding? A. No—I was there all the time—I did not see Beaumont's face bloody.
MR. JONES. Q. Where was Beaumont standing? A. In the road with his face towards me—the prisoner was on the pavement, and I was watching him—the fight was going on with Smith at that time—the prisoner was between me and Smith—I was just at the shop door, and they were on the pavement.
COURT. Q. You were watching the prisoner? A. Yes—I did not see Smith on the ground; if he was on the ground, I did not see him.
MARY HAGAN . I saw this row with the soldiers on 18th July—I did not notice the prisoner in the crowd—I saw Beaumont; I only know him from seeing him—I did not see him struck with anything—I saw his face bleeding; I don't know how it occurred.
Cross-examined. Q. Where were you? A. At the first-floor window on the opposite side of the way—I should say there were 300 or 400 people—I did not see the prisoner till he was taken—I saw Beaumont bleeding—he was just going out of the crowd when I saw him.
JOHN ROLFE . I am a butcher—on 18th July some soldiers came to my shop, and I afterwards saw the row in the street—I saw the prisoner struggling with Smith, and I saw them fight together, and presently they both fell down on the pavement, and they soon got up again—I did not see the prisoner strike Beaumont—I saw Beaumont bleeding—I think the prisoner was struggling with Smith.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. DICKIE conducted the Prosecution.
RACHEL LEAH EUSONN . I am a widow—about 12 o'clock on 9th August, I was in Aldgate standing looking in a toy-shop window—two females came to the window and stood on my left side, and then the prisoner, who was one of them, went to my right hand side—in my right hand pocket I kept my purse—I felt something at my pocket, and I saw the prisoner's hand draw from my pocket, and she went at my back to the other woman—I caught the prisoner, I seized her arm, and said, "You have got my purse"—she said she had not—the other woman went on, but I kept the prisoner—I had in my purse three sovereigns and two half-crowns—I am quite sure I
saw the prisoner's hand coming out of my pocket—I had seen my purse safe a quarter of an hour before—the prisoner was given into custody—I have seen my purse since; the shopkeeper found it in the cellar of the shop—I was not standing where the purse could fall down the grating—that was at the door—I was at the window.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Was the grating in front of the shop window? A. Yes; I noticed the grating—I was obliged to stand on the grating to hold the prisoner—I did not notice the grating at all before my attention was excited—I did not notice the size of it—it was about the ordinary size, not very small nor very large—there were not many persons passing up and down at that time—when I came up the Commercial-road, it was a quarter past 11 o'clock—I can't say but that I was rather agitated and alarmed—I am now living at Camberwell, but I was then living at Red-hill—the person who was with the prisoner walked away—looking in the shop window when the persons came up—I had the same mantle and dress on that I have to-day, and the same bonnet—my pocket is on the outside according to the usual way—the prisoner offered to wait for a policeman and said I need not lay hold of her, but I did, and she remained till the policeman came—I was not standing on the grating till I got hold of her.
JOHN BROOKS (City-policeman, 666). On 9th July, the prisoner was given into my charge for picking a pocket—the last witness gave her in charge—the prisoner was searched, she had no purse—she had a small ring on her finger.
FREDERICK SIMMONS . I live at 28, Aldgate—there is a grating in front of my shop—on a Monday in July, I found in the area a purse with three sovereigns and some silver in it—I found it under the grating of my window about 1 o'clock in the day.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, August 15th, 1860.
PRESENT—MR. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and ROBERT MALCOLM KEER, ESQ.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. COOPER with MR. CHARNOCK, having opened the case for the prosecution, MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE submitted that the case did not come within the Act of Parliament (7 & 8 Geo.) the bills in question were entrusted to the prisoner for the purposes of discount; but, although it was originally understood that the cash was to be remitted within a week, the prosecutor, in a subsequent letter, stated that he was in no hurry for the cash—the mere omission to send the money, therefore, consequent upon a financial difficulty, he submitted was not enough to make the defendant criminally responsible. MR. COOPER
contended that it was a question of intent for the Jury. MR. RECORDER was of opinion, taking the facts as opened, that the case did not come within the Statute.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. CHARNOCK conducted the Prosecution.
SUMMERS HIGGINS . I am a clerk at the Westminster Police-office, where Mr. Arnold presides—I have the book here in which I take down the depositions—a man named John Ward was tried there for stealing a half-crown—the prisoner was a witness—she was sworn, and said, "I am a widow; a chair-caner—I was standing at the corner of Sloane-street yesterday at 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I had a half-crown in my left hand, and 11d. in my right hand, I was looking at the half-crown, when the prisoner came up to me and snatched the half-crown out of my hand and walked on—I followed him and asked him to give it to me—some women were with him—I asked him for it, he used bad language—I then gave him in custody"—she was re-called afterwards and said, "I got the half-crown from Mrs. Smith for caning chairs—she paid me at half-past 3 in the afternoon"—she was called again, and she said, "I was not in the beer-shop—I did not go into a beer-shop where the prisoner was, or drink with him—I had no peas with me—I did not see the prisoner till he came and took my half-crown."
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. At the time she made that deposition was she alone? A. I can't tell whether she brought anything with her—the case was not remanded, it was all the same day—they changed places the same day, and then she was remanded for a few days, and then this charge was gone into—she appeared quite sober when she made this deposition.
MR. CHARNOCK. Q. By whose direction was it that they changed places? A. Mr. Arnold's—if she had had any witnesses there I should have taken their depositions—there is no other evidence but her own.
MARY ANN SIMMS . I am the wife of Charles Simms, a paper-stainer of 6, Robert's-buildings—I know a person named John Ward by sight; I was with him and Maria kent at Mrs. Benson's public-house, the Prince of Wales, 18, Queen's-road-east, Chelsea on 26th, Mrs. Benson was at home—I saw the prisoner there, she had some peas in her lap, shelled—we were having a drop of beer with Ward—I am sure she is the woman, she looked at him and asked him what he was looking at; he said, not at her—she said she would be 2d. to his 2d. for some beer—with that she went into Mrs. Benson's, who was sitting at tea, and put the peas she was carrying into her slop-basin; she said she was tired of carrying them about—Mrs. Benson said she did not want them for nothing, and said to the prisoner, "What shall I give you for them?" she said, "A pint of beer"—Mrs. Benson then came to the bar and drew a pot of beer, that was a pint for the prisoner and a pint for Ward—he threw down a half-crown on the counter—I said, "What do you want to do that for, when you have got two sixpences in your pocket"—he said he had not, he felt and he had them in his waistcoat-pocket, he gave one of them, and got a fourpenny-piece in change—the prisoner saw the half-crown—we did not remain there long after that—Kent was with us—when we went out the prisoner followed us—we went round by the Asylum, and when we got to a little beer-Bhop, she asked
Ward if he was going to stand some more beer—she said, "Will you put 2d. more to my 2d. for a pint of beer?" Ward told her to go away, and said he did not want anything to do with her—we then walked away and she followed us still—when we got to the corner of Sloane-street, we were going to say, "Good-bye;" she gave Ward in charge to a policeman, and said he had taken her half-crown; he was so flurried he could not speak—he had had a drop to drink; not out of the way—I came back again, and then this policeman met another and he took him to the station—I went to Mrs. Benson's to see if she could prevent him being locked up, but I could not get back in time; he was locked up all night—I went up before the Magistrate the next day for him.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure she is the woman? A. Yes—I am married and am an ironer.
MARIA KENT . I am unmarried and am an ironer—I live at 26, Queen-street, Chelsea—I was with Ward, and the last witness, at this beer-shop on 26th, drinking some beer—I saw the prisoner come in there—she had some shelled peas in her lap—Mrs. Benson was having her tea—the prisoner asked Ward what he was staring at; he said, not at her—she said, "I will be 2d. to your 2d. for a pot of beer"—put the peas in Mrs. Benson's shop-basin, and Mrs. Benson gave her a pint of beer for them—the beer was drunk; she then wanted to have some more, but he said he would have nothing more to do with her—Ward, Simms, and I then went out; she followed us directly afterwards—when we got to another beer-shop she came up and said she would be another 2d. to his 2d.—Ward then told her to go away, and said he did not know her, and did not want anything to do with her—she continued following us down Sloane-street—she was on the opposite side of the road—she met a policeman, and came across to us with him and gave Ward in custody for taking a half-crown out of her hand—we came to Lower Sloane-street, and there met another constable, and he was locked up.
Cross-examined Q. Did you tell the policeman you could get Mrs. Benson? A. Yes; I don't know anything about the prisoner; I never saw her before—when she saw the Asylum she did not say, "That has been my home," or anything of that kind.
ELIZABETH BENSON . I am the wife of John Benson, and keep the Prince of Wales, 18, Queen's-road, East Chelsea—I know a person named Ward, by his coming to my house—on 26th July he and Kent and Simms were at my place—prisoner came in; she brought some peas in her lap, and came and put them in my slop-basin; she said, "I have carried these quite long enough, I will give them to you;" I said, "I don't want them for nothing, what do you want for them? "she said, "Give me a pint of beer"—I went to the bar and drew her a pint of beer, and Ward another pint—he threw down a half-crown, and one of the women said, "You don't want to throw that down, you have two sixpences"—he then threw down a sixpence—they all drank the beer out of the same pot—then Ward, Simms, and Kent went out and the prisoner followed them.
Cross-examined. Q. Had she been at your place before? A. Once or twice in the course of the day—I had not known her before that—she had had a little to drink.
JOHN WARD . I am a labourer, and am living at 16, Ebury-square—on 26th July I was at the beer-shop with Maria Kent and Mrs. Simms—the prisoner came in there and said she would put 2d. to my 2d.—I had never seen her before—she had some peas in her lap—she went and put
them in Mrs. Benson's slop-basin—Mrs. Benson said she did not want them for nothing, and the prisoner said, "Give me a pint of beer for them," she said she would put a pint to my pint and we could have a pot—I put a half-crown down in her presence, and one of the women said, "You have got two sixpences in your pocket;" I said it did not matter, but I pulled out sixpence and gave it to Mrs. Benson, and she gave me a 4d. piece out—we drank the beer and walked out—the prisoner followed us—she followed us to Sloane-square and I said I didn't want her; she crossed over the road in Sloane-street, got a policeman, and gave me in charge for stealing a halfcrown—there was no foundation for the charge, there was no truth in it—I was locked up all night.
Cross-examined. Q. You thought she was a very strange person? A. Yes.
WILLIAM SPEAR (Policeman, B 254). I took Ward into custody in Sloane-street upon the prisoner's charge—she was quite sober—I heard her state before the Magistrate that she had got the half-crown, of which she had been robbed, from Mrs. Smith in Pimlico—I went by direction of the Magistrate to that place, and I could not find any Mrs. Smith.
GUILTY .**— Confined Nine Month.
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Six Months.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK MULLINEAUX ,(Policeman, 293). About half-past 6 o'clock on the morning of 11th July, I was in Houndsditch—I saw Silk; he came from Bishopsgate-street with a cart and two cans called churns, one full and the other empty—I saw him stop at the corner of Cutler-street; he then drove on to Aldgate Church—he stopped there, took a measure from the cart, and poured six of those measures into this pail of milk—this is the measure and pail (produced)—he took the liquid out of one of the high churns; Knight then came up in a cart, stood upon the rail and handed that pail full of some liquid to Silk—he pulled close up alongside of Silk's cart—Silk took the pail and poured the contents into the churn where he took the milk from—they then both drove round the corner into Aldgate—the milk that he took out of the one churn he put into another empty churn, and then he poured the liquid into the churn he took the milk from, and emptied the milk that he took out from the other churn into the pail—Silk then drove away, and Knight was in the act of driving away when I stopped him—I told him I was an officer, and asked him what he had in the pail, he said, "Milk," and that he bought it from the other man who had driven away, but had not paid for it—I told him he must consider himself in custody, and I handed him over to another officer—I searched him at the station and found on him 5s. 4 1/2 d. in money, and a knife.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Do you mean still to say that you found 5s. 4 1/2 d. and a knife on Knight? A. I found on Knight 4s. 0 1/2 d. and a knife—I believe I said that at the Mansion House—I found 5s. 4 1/2 d. on Silk—each man was in his cart—I will swear it was not milk that was poured into the churn—I was standing on the ground—the men had their faces towards me—the tail of the cart is not more than a foot from the ground, and the cans are above the cart a great deal—the streets were clear and I was close to them—the liquid which they poured in was a kind of pink; I saw it poured out—Knight was in Mr. Foster's employment, and
this can belongs to Mr. Foster—Knight was going his morning round with milk—I first of all said I was about fifty yards from the cart, but I have measured it since, and it is seventy-five paces, I think that is about thirty yards—I fancy I gave them a yard or two when I measured—Knight said at the station that he was authorized by his master to buy it.
FREDERICK WILLIS . I am a cow-keeper at 9, Perceval-street, Clerkenwell—Silk was in my employment as carter—Messrs. Hill are customers of ours—he was conveying milk on this morning to Hill, Jones, and Hill, in Bishopsgate-street—he had no right to dispose of or sell any milk of mine—that was on purpose for Hill and Jones—these are both my bills (produced) "Please receive 40 quarts of milk"—on this morning he took fifty quarts to each place—the value of it was 2s. 6d.—I afterwards examined the milk delivered at Mr. Hills'; it was certainly adulterated, and there was four quarts more then than I sent out.
Cross-examined. Q. Is not milk a different colour when a cow first calves? A. Yes; it is a pinky colour, this time of year particularly—I don't know that many milk-dealers when their milk runs short are authorized to buy—I have heard that some persons do so; it is not my custom—I measured fifty quarts of milk into the churn that morning—there was sixty for Mr. Hill and fifty for Hill and Jones.
JAMES OTTEN . I am a biscuit-packer in the employment of Messrs. Hill and Jones of Aldgate—on that morning I was passing by the top of Houndsditch and saw Silk drive out of Houndsditch into Aldgate—I saw him stop by Knight's cart—he took a pail out of his cart, put it on the shafts, then got down himself, took the pail and gave it to Knight—that was all I saw that morning—I had seen the two prisoners together on other mornings—this was about 20 minutes to 7 in the morning—I have seen them together several times; in Aldgate chiefly, and having seen them it induced me to look on this morning.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Knight at all? A. No—I have seen him about Aldgate—I have seen him with Mr. Foster's cart.
JOHN LAWRENCE MATHER . I am foreman to Mr. Hill of Bishopsgatestreet—we take milk of Mr. Willis—I remember 11th July, I ordered the milk that was then delivered to be measured, and I stood by while it was being measured—I saw sixty quarts measured, and I should say there were about two quarts over—there was two quarts more than there ought to have been—I did not particularly examine the milk.
Cross-examined. Q. If it had been unusually bad you would have noticed it? A. I can't say that I should—sometimes it is a little over the sixty quarts—I counted it one, two, three, as they were measured—I don't think it possible that I could have made a mistake.
WILLIAM CULL . I am foreman to Messrs. Hill and Jones, Jewry-street—Otten made a communication to me before this took place—on this morning, the 11th, Silk brought me a churn of milk into the warehouse—on that occasion I examined another churn that was in the cart; it was empty—I followed Silk into the back house and saw the milk measured—we ought to have had fifty quarts, and there were fifty-three or fifty-four—the milk looked rather darker than usual.
Cross-examined. Q. Rather pinky? A. It was darker and richer.
Witnesses for the Defence.
CHARLES CEPHAS FOSTERS . I am a dealer in milk, at Mitre-square, Aldgate—I employ ten men—they are employed in the delivery of milk every morning and afternoon—Knight was in my employment, and had been for nearly three years, and ten years previously with a former master—during that time
his character has been very good in every respect; I never had any complaint to make of him—his former master lives in Essex—I receive my milk from the country, from Ingotston-hall; Mr. Reed supplies me—on the morning of the 11th my supply of milk from Mr. Reed was short; I expected three churns from him that morning, he only sent one—I was also disappointed from Ilford that day; I should have had one churn from there, but it did not come, therefore it made me three churns deficient—I am not aware of the deficiency till I come to town at 11 o'clock—my foreman has instructions to purchase milk wherever he can for the customers—very frequently we have a stoppage on the railway—it is a very frequent thing for the trade to buy of each other.
Cross-examined. Q. But you would not expect that any of your milk coming up by the train would be sold by other persons? A. I should not care about it; it is usual—if you sold me milk and sent a man with it, that man has a right to sell that milk to people—if I sent my man out with forty quarts of milk to a particular person, and he sold it to some one else, he would then probably come back for forty quarts more—Knight was in my employment that morning—I do not know whether he had any right to carry that pail or not that morning—I will swear that I have not told Mullineaux that Knight had no right to take that pail—if the milk is deficient when I come at 11 o'clock I do not give orders on that morning—we have many mishaps, and, of course, we have to be prepared, for these contingencies—I don't give them the money to pay for it; frequently they buy it and don't pay for ifot the time.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. You say if you sent forty quarts to a particular person, and your man sold it to some other person, you would not mind? A. We generally have a large stock of milk by us—Mr. Willis's milk is London milk; mine comes by rail, and is a very different quality from London milk—it is considered much better—I think I know something about the calving of cows—with regard to cows that are kept in the country, the milk has a very different complexion to that of those which are kept in London, because the cows are sent out to feed on grass—the colour of the milk depends on the quality of food, and it also depends on the cows having recently calved.
COURT. Q. Do you know of any ways of making the milk look a little pink? A. No; I am aware that there are many things resorted to, but I am quite ignorant of that.
RICHARD MARTIN . I am foreman to Mr. Foster, and have been so two years and a half, and at the same place two years previous to being foreman—I have been in the business about five years—during the time I have been there Knight has been with me, and has borne a good character; I never knew anything against it—on the morning of 11th July our supply from Mr. Reed, of Ingotston-hall, was very short; we only had one churn of milk instead of three, and we ought to have received one churn from Ilford; that did not arrive that morning—I gave the men that morning particular orders to buy a sufficient quantity of milk to supply the customers with.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know of stuff being used to make the milk look rich? A. I do know that there is some such stuff, and something to make it look blue, that is, water.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you, on the morning of 12th July, receive a letter from Mr. Reed? A. My employer did.
COURT. Q. Do you know anything about that pail? A. Yes; Knight had a right to take that in his cart, to take one or two gallons of milk in, instead
of taking the churn out of the cart—he has it in his cart for his own convenience—I know of no fluid except milk that he carries in that—we were short that morning, and had not sufficient for our own customers—there was no milk sent out in the churns that morning.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. He had milk in the churns, and the pail in the cart? A. Yes—he might have sold milk to any one that morning.
COURT. Q. When he had not enough for your own customers? A. He might have done so, but it would have been wrong on his part to do so.
THOMAS M'AVOY . I live at 8, Colchester-street, Whitechapel, and am a cow-keeper—I know that it is the custom amongst these men to buy and sell milk in the street of one another—I have sold some to the prisoner several times, and have had some of him in the street; bought and sold—I have known him nearly eleven years—during that time he has always borne a good character for honesty and industry.
JOHN PARKER . I live at 3, Susannah-row, and am a licensed appraiser—I have known the prisoner between seven and eight years—he is an honest, upright man, what I have seen of him—my father was a cow-keeper, and I have known my father to sell him milk several times.
ROBERT MAY . I am a cow-keeper, and live at White-lion-street—I have known the prisoner sixteen years—during that time his character was that of an honest, hard-working, industrious man—I deal in milk—Mr. Knight has had a great many gallons of milk, and so have I, of him, in the street; purchasing one of another.
Cross-examined. Q. It is not a very common occurrence to take water and give milk? A. No—I have never done so—I never heard of a man giving a pail of water for a pail of milk in return.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did you ever know Knight do such a thing? A. No—I don't believe that he would.
The prisoner received a good character.
KNIGHT.— GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury, on account of his good character. — Confined Six Months.
ELIZA PERRY . I am the wife of William Perry, of Knightsbridge, joiner, and keep an oyster and shell-fish shop—I have known the prisoner for nearly two years—he was employed by a Richmond carrier, and I took him into my service two days before, to sell things for me—on 9th May I gave him a parcel, and a sovereign was in the parcel, to take to Earl's-court, and I never saw him again from that time till 19th June—he did not take it—the person to whom he ought to have paid it is not here—I had to pay it over again.
JAMES PAGE (Policeman, B 147). I took the prisoner into custody on the 19th July, for stealing the sovereign—I told him so—he said, "I had a parcel to take to Earl's-court, and I lost it out of my pocket"—I found him at the Rose and Crown public-house, Knightsbridge, a concert-room.
Prisoner. I was trusted with the parcel, and I had the misfortune to lose it, and I was very sorry for it.
COURT to ELIZA PERRY. Q. Did the prisoner know what was inside the parcel? A. No, I did not tell him—I said, "If you don't see the person, bring it back."
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Thursday, August 16th, 1860.
PRESENT.—Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Sir PETER LAURIE, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY, M.P.; Mr. Ald. HALE; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
For the case of William Godfrey Youngman, tried this day, see Surrey cases.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, August 16th, 1860.
PRESENT.—SIR ROBERT WALTERCARDEN, Knt. Ald. M.P.; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. CONDER.
Before Mr. Recorder.
709. PIETRO MARSINI (30), and THOMASO MARSINI (33) , Feloniously cutting and wounding John Mullins, with intent to do grievous bodily harm. Also stabbing James Geary with intent to do grievous bodily harm.
The prisoners PLEADED GUILTY to the unlawful wounding. — Confined six Months each.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and Mr. F.H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
HERBERT CATLIN . I produce a deed; I witnessed the signature of the prosecutor to it—it is dated the 25th of January, 1858, by which William Grossert Johnstone agreed to be clerk to Mr. Wyllie, at the salary of 140l. per annum; to devote his whole time to his business, and to account for and pay over all monies that might come to his hand as such clerk, without any deduction whatever.
ROBERT WYLLIE . I am a Manchester warehouseman, and live at 21, Watling-street—the prisoner was in my employ under the terms of this deed—I was in the habit of keeping in my establishment the cash-book, the entry-book, and the ledger, and also a duplicate pass-book, which ought to have been a copy of the bank pass-book—the bank pass-book was only made up occasionally; sometimes not for a month together—it was at the bank—the prisoner kept the duplicate pass-book; it was his duty to enter in it all cash that went to the bank, so that I could take it up any hour of the day and see what my balance was—I was in the habit of referring to that book, but latterly he did not write it up—he used to give me the balance on a slip of paper for a month or two before he left—he used to keep the cash-book—it was his duty to make entries of all cash that he received—the usual place of deposit for the books was in the safe—the prisoner kept the key of that safe—he had no authority to take any of those books from my house—I recollect before the 4th of June his taking home the duplicate pass-book—I asked him where it was; he said he had got it at home—I told him that was not the place for my books—when I came from Brighton on the morning of 4th June I saw the book brought home under his arm—I said, "You have brought the book back," and he said, "Yes"—I should say that I saw the cash-book for 1858 and 1859, three or four days before he left, and I saw the duplicate pass-book on the morning of 4th June, and about an hour before he left—it was then in the drawer of the
desk where he was writing, in my own counting house—I recollect the prisoner giving me this account (looking at it) at the latter end of last year—it is the prisoner's handwriting—he gave it me as a true and particular account of the stock—he gave it me the latter end of December, when we took stock—(Read:
£ s. d. Bills... 5326 4 4
Open accounts... 1010 4 10
Dividends... 457 0 0
£6793 9 2
£ s. d.
Book Debts... 7729 17 0
Dividends, say... 600 14 5
Stock... 1838 1 7
Furniture... 20 0 0
Cash in hand... 91 2 3
Bank... 25 0 0
10304 15 3
6793 9 2
£3511 6 1)
I did not test this account by reference to my books; I asked him if it was correct and he said it was—I told him to be careful in this account—I was not myself much engaged in business in London; I have to travel a good deal—I told him I would get an accountant to assist him if he required it—he said no, he could do it himself—he asked to leave London about February, I think—he went on 4th June—I missed the cash-books on the morning after he went and I missed the duplicate pass—book at the same moment—I and the prisoner left together on 4th June—he slammed the books into the safe—nobody could have got in the counting-house after we left.
Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS. Q. How long have you been a warehouseman? A. Four or five years—the name of the firm is Wyllie and Co.—I was formerly a traveller or servant in that firm—I should say that is nine or ten years ago—Mr. James Thompson carried on business then—he gave it up four or five years ago and I took it—I carried it on for his brother perhaps twelve months—I took a partner named McNarr—the property was in the estate—he did not bring in 2,000l. he took the trade along with me as partner—I gave Mr. Thompson security in bills; I could not say how much—my capital was in the firm—I had 2,000l. in it—Mr. McNarr had two-thirds of the profit—the prisoner came as servant to both of us—I could not say when that was; it was about six months afterwards—after Mr. McNarr left the business I made this new agreement with the prisoner—Mr. McNarr used to look at the books from time to time when he was partner with me, but I was mostly travelling; I very seldom looked at the books—the other partner was more at home than I was—there was a little book called the private ledger—Mr. McNaff kept the key of it—I did not keep the key after he was gone—the prisoner gave it up to me the night before he left—I had the key occasionally when I wanted to look in it—the prisoner made the entries in it—I can hardly tell you what entries he made in it; he made all that were necessary—all cash credit was entered by him where I had borrowed money—the sums that were borrowed ought to be entered in the private ledger—the debts that I owed were in the public ledger, they were not in the private ledger—you would learn what I owed from the ledger and stock-taking—I don't carry the ledger in my head—I can't tell—what I owed for money borrowed was
in my private ledger, 1,300l., but that was in the estate; I have not borrowed it—the interest was paid on that every year—I received this paper from the prisoner at the latter end of December—I was in a negociation to sell my business in February—it was in the latter end of December I took stock—in the general way, we took an account of all the stock at the valuation, and all the book debts—we had a book to enter the stock we took in—Mr. Fletcher, Mr. Clements, and the prisoner were engaged in taking the stock; I looked at it occasionally—we put a valuation on the stock in hand and it was entered in the book—that was done in December, 1859—Mr. Clements and Mr. Fletcher are here to-day—they gave the account to the prisoner and he wrote it down—they took the cost price—at the beginning of that book there was an entry made on the debtor and creditor side; here it is—it is not torn out; it is in the state in which it originally was—it is the stock-taking book; it purports to describe all that was due to me, as well as all that I owed—this paper gives book debts 7,729l. 17s. and dividends 600l. 14s. 5d.; that means dividends on the insolvent estates—I can't tell you on what estates dividends were due—there is the bdok, that will tell you—I received an old dividend the other day that was not in the book at all—it was from Oaks, of Croydon—this 600l. dividend means that I was entitled to them myself—I had to receive them myself—on the other side here is bills, 5,326l. 4s. 4d.; open accounts 1,010l. and dividends 457l.—that I had to pay—my bankers were Currie and Co.—I have been banking with them ever since I have been in business and before—here is my banker's pass-book—I very seldom looked in my banker's pass-book; in feet, I did not look in it for months together—from December, 1859, till 4th June, 1860, I don't think I looked in my banker's pass-book—the pass-book used to be at the bank for a month together, and I used to say to the prisoner, "Why do you keep it there?"—I did not look at it myself, but I wanted him to tell me whether it was correct—I think I could say that for six months I did not look at my banker's pass-book—I might just turn it over with the prisoner—I can't answer whether I several times looked at it—I left the whole business to the prisoner to manage—I did not go over the books frequently with him—I have looked at the cash-book occasionally and asked him what was the occasion of these balances, and why he did not send the money to the bank—the private ledger was not private to him; he had the key of it—I seldom had it in my possession—if there was occasion to look into it, I looked into it—I won't say that I did not take the key away, but the last time I got it was when he left—I won't deny that I took it home with me, but he had the key for a month together—I sometimes returned to town once a week, sometimes in a fortnight; but I have been out for a month together on a journey—I had two old cash-books, one was of 1858, one 1859, and a portion of 1860; the other began about May 12th—I wanted a new one, the previous one was in the safe, but it was used up—the last time I saw the two cash-books that I now miss, was about four or five days before he went away—I will swear I did not see them in the counting-house on the 4th of June, the same day that the prisoner left—I have never said that I saw them in my counting-house on the day the prisoner left—I swear I have not—I saw the duplicate pass-book within an hour of his leaving the counting-house—he left about 8 o'clock; I and he were together up to the very time that I left—he slammed the books into the iron safe which is fixed in the wall—it is not very small; it is pretty large—it could hold all the books that we were working with, and the old cash-book—I had a porter named Ellis—when the old books were out of use they were placed
in a corner of the counting-house—all the books since 1858 were in the counting-house, and all those that were in use were put in the safe—I missed those three books the very moment I entered the counting-house and opened the safe; that was. on 5th June—I then missed the three books and a duplicate bill-book, where we entered all the bills that were sent out for acceptance; that was four books—I missed that book on the morning of the 5th when I came there—I discovered the loss of three books the instant I opened the safe—the prisoner did not complain to me of illness when he went away—he complained of a sore throat about Christmas, that was all—he said he was quite well again, and that he never had a doctor in his life—when I missed these books I did not know where the prisoner was gone—I sent a party to his house to get his address—I wrote a letter to him about the 10th or 11th June—I think I had not received a letter from him before I wrote that letter—I received only one letter from him; I can't tell whether it was before the 11th—a friend of mine wrote a letter to him at my dictation—I received from him a sort of rambling statement—after that I went down to Dumfries, but I went to different Magistrates to get a search warrant—I went to the Lord Mayor's Court and they told me it was not in their district, I had better go to Guildhall—I went to Guildhall and they told me I had better go to Clerkenwell—I can't tell how many Magistrates I went before, before I went to Dumfries—I had not called mj creditors together in the meanwhile; I have not called them at all—a friend of mine told me to put my affairs in the hand of an accountant—I have never proposed to make a composition with my creditors; a friend of mine did—I had not been to Dumfries before that—I went to Norwich on a journey, and I telegraphed to know where he was; I sent a friend to nil house to know where he was gone to—I then went to Dumfries—the prisoner said he was ill—I sent a friend, Mr. McGowan, to go on and ask if he knew anything about these goods—I did not say to Mr. McGowan that all I complained of was the loss of one cash-book, I said all my cash-boob—I am sure I said that—I lost all but the one we were working with—whether I told him "book" or "books" I don't know—I think I told him I lost more than one cash-book, but I was so bothered about I don't know—I first complained that I had lost two cash-books at Guildhall—I was only at Dumfries one day; I left in the evening—I left Mr. McGowan to communicate with the prisoner—I asked him to make more inquiries—Mr. McGowan is not here—the last time I saw him was about the middle of the day, when I was at Dumfries—after I came to town I went to get a warrant, and the Alderman told roe I had better go and consult my solicitor—Mr. Catlin is my solicitor—I went to Guildhall; I got a warrant and read a statement, Mr. Catlin prepared it for me—Thomas Ellis, my porter, went up before I got that warrant—I telegraphed to Dumfries, and the prisoner left—I found he had gone to Edinburgh—I sent an officer down; I can't exactly say when, about the 22d, perhaps—I found the prisoner's brother was in a high position, he was the minister there—when the prisoner came into the employ of myself and Mr. McNarr, he did not bring any testimonials; he was recommended by a customer of mine—I employed him at 2l. a-week—there was a Mr. Bell who became security for him to the extent of 500l.; but that was some considerable time after—Mr. Forbes was treating for my business, but he did not buy it—he came to my counting-house—I recollect referring him to Mr. Johnstone to look at the books—I can't say whether Mr. Johnstone said anything that pleased or displeased Mr. Forbes—he did not make any remark—Johnstone was in the counting-house; I
think I was at the door—I think Mr. Forbes was inside—we were all three present—I asked Mr. Johnstone whether this piece of paper was a correct account of my affairs—he did not refuse to answer nor evade answering the question—Mr. Forbes said he would call again—he said from the suggestion of the prisoner that he had not money enough to put down—he merely went away and said he would call the next day; I forget whether he called or I called on him—when the prisoner begged to have my business I said "I can very easily get rid of Forbes."
Q. Do you mean to say you are so bad an accountant as not to see that the debt of 1,300l. is not put down here? A. I know that very well; yet this is a correct account without the 1,300l.—I have a statement which Johnstone made out after Forbes left if you like to see it—Johnstone was held to bail—I was three times before the Alderman—I. had three persons in my employ besides the prisoner—I had a porter—it was not his duty to attend in the counting-house, only to sweep it out and to sweep the warehouse—he could not go in the counting-house without he was asked—I never saw him there hardly except to light the fire when Mr. Johnstone called him inside—Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Clements were in my employ; they were both in town on the 4th June—I opened the warehouse on the morning of 5th June—I went there about 9 o'clock, and those gentlemen came about half-past 9; I had opened the iron safe before either of those gentleman came—I had discovered the loss of the three books; I mentioned it and asked the porter if he had seen either of these three books—I think I mentioned it to the other gentlemen, but I was so confused I can't tell—I asked the porter if he had seen either of these books about—I believe they all knew on that morning that I had lost those three books j they could not be off of hearing it.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Three years ago you had been a servant in this concern, and afterwards you went in business on your own account? A. Yes; and subsequent to that I became a partner in this concern, with Mr. McNarr—when he left he left some money in it—that had been in the business—a portion of it was paid—it was on that that interest had to be paid—in addition to that I brought in some capital of my own—I had paid in at different times 500l. more or less—assuming the account to be correct that the prisoner gave me in December, I am not able to account for the position of my affairs now—the fact is I never drew a shilling out of the firm in my life—my deficiency now is over 2,000l.—there is a fourth book missing, called the duplicate bill-book—I have never found that—Mr. Clements is still in my employ—Mr. Fletcher has got a situation—I went, immediately I had lost my books, to one or two offices—this book (looking at one) is similar to the cash-books lost, but it is thicker.
JOHN CROFT PICKLES . I am cashier to Lattimer and Co. 81, Watlingstreet—I know the premises of the prosecutor—I know the prisoner—I saw him, on one occasion, going from the premises of the prosecutor in a cab—that was a few days before he went for his holiday—he had some books with him when he went in the cab—they appeared to be commercial books—one of them was very similar to this (produced)—there were several books—I could not say how many—it was between 6 and 7 o'clock; he was locking the door—I noticed that the books were in the cab, on the seat—the cab door was open.
Cross-examined. Q. One of them had a parchment cover Hke this, had it? A. Yes—I was passing at the very moment—I saw several books—I heard that the prisoner was preparing to publish a work at the very time—I don't
know anything about what books he had—I believe I first mentioned about seeing tho books in the cab a few days afterwards to a gentleman in an omnibus—I mentioned it in less than a month after—it was not this book that I saw in the cab (looking at one)—it was a dirtier, older looking book—this has the appearance of a new one—it was this description of book—I did not have a little dispute about money with the prisoner—he made a claim on my co-executor for Mr. Wyllie—it was paid—I could not say what time it wag demanded—I could not say whether there were a number of applications made before we paid it; I know of but one—I am employed in business in the neighbourhood of Mr. Wyllie—it may be about one hundred yards off—the books I saw in the eab were five or six inches high.
Cross-examined. Q. How often did Mr. Wyllie come to town? A. It is impossible for me to say—he might be away a week, a fortnight, or a month, or five weeks—I have seen him look over the books, but I did not look over the books—I was occasionally sent to fetch the bank-book by Mr. Johnstone, sometimes when Mr. Wyllie was in town—I used to take it to the counting-house—it was a small book—when Mr. Wyllie was in town it was generally in the counting-house.
HENRY FLETCHER . I am not now in Mr. Wyllie's employ; I was his warehouseman and traveller—I and Mr. Johnstone were employed in taking stock in December—I really can't say whether Mr. Wyllie was there; he might be there, perhaps, in and out—Mr. Clements was not; he was not engaged at that time—I dare say we might have been a week about it—I had nothing to do with the entries; I had only to take the stock down as I wanted it, and give it to Mr. Johustone—I believe this is the book it was entered in—I don't know anything at all about this—I only gave the stock.
JOHN HERBERT LADBURY . am an accountant—Mr. Wyllie put his books into my hands about the end of June—a ledger, a bill-book, a small stockbook, and a book containing the profits of the month; there was no cashbook nor pass-book—I found the amount of money and bills to be accounted for was 14,843l. 17s. 4d—I referred to the banker's book, and found there
Pain in... 12-337 16 3
Making a deficiency of... 2,506 1 1
There had been paid in... 528 4 8
Making deficiency... 3,034 5 9
Mr. Wyllie stated he had taken out of the business... 773 18 0
Which would leave deficiency. £2,260 7 9 this is supposing the accounts of the prisoner to be correct—I then referred to the stock book, the bought ledger, what had been sold, and what was left in the warehouse, and I made the deficiency 2,261l. 15s. 2d.—I am not able to account for the present defalcation—the prosecutor ought to have been perfectly solvent, and to have had a surplus of about 2,500l.—if the missing cash-books had been there they would, if they had been properly kept, have assisted me in finding out how this deficiency arose.
Cross-examined. Q. Supposing they were kept with perfect propriety they might have been useful to you? A. Yes—I would have gone back and
traced the deficiencies from 1857, 1858, and 1859—when payments are made on credit transactions they are posted in the ledger—the ledger account has the name of the parties to whom the goods are sold, and it ought to indicate the payments made and the date of those payments—in course of business, when a debtor pays money he gets a receipt—there are a great many accounts—I have taken the payments from the ledger in cash and hills—there is a mark in the ledger whether it is paid by bills or cash, and it shows how long the bill has to run—we can tell by the bill-book whether the bills are paid or whether they are renewed—the sales would be posted from the daily journal or waste-book—I went through that to test the accuracy of the ledger—I had the banker's pass-book of the monies paid in from day to t day, and the money drawn out—they don't enter bills in the pass-book—on this side here is cash and bills received, and the other side the payments—they take in cash and bills and enter it in the lump; if any of the bills are not paid they are handed back to Mr. Wyllie—Mr. Wyllie did not go through these with me—he is unable to write except with his left hand-there is upwards of 1,000 bad debts, which are here valued at 5s. in the pound—I think debts were in the private ledger to the amount-of nearly 2,000l. which are not entered in this account—it is not usual to exhibit the private ledger—if I had entered all it would not have made so large a surplus—about 1,500l.—when I was investigating the amount I did not send to Mr. Johnstons to give me any explanation—I thought there being a criminal charge against him it would be improper to do it—he was not called to explain.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. In your presence did he see all these books? A. Yes.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did he not state that there were errors in it? A. No; that some of the bills were in the wrong places—this is a diary—it is really only a memorandum-book—here is a list of bills payable by the firm and receivable by the firm—one is on one portion of the book and one on the other.
MR. CHAMBERS to ROBERT ELLIS. Q. Was the prisoner in bad health before he left? A. Yes, he was at times—he was taken about three months before he left—on the day he left he was very ill—there used to be a great many books brought there to him—he took them away sometimes—I believe he was writing some book.
The Prisoner received an excellent character.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE and Mr. F. H. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH MOORE . I am the wife of Thomas Moore of Queen's-road West, Chelsea j he is Curator of the Botanical-gardens of the Apothecaries Company—I went to Mr. Wyllie on 16th April; I saw the prisoner—I purchased some articles—I did not pay him any money then—I did on the, 21st or 22d May—this is the invoice; it is 2l. 18s. 4d., my husband paid him that money in my presence—I saw the prisoner sign the receipt.
Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. When did you see the prisoner? A. About 16th April; I think my sister bought some goods on the same day that I did—sfce paid for what she bought—I did not pay, because I had not any money with me—we paid the prisoner on the 21st May, and he was so ill he could hardly write, and my husband said, "Don't trouble yourself,
put down the same date as it is on the bill"—when I got these things Mr. Johnstone made the invoice and handed it to me—I said I had not any money—my sister offered to pay it for me, but I said, "No, leave it till I see Mr. Johnstone"—I have been a friend of Mr. Johnstone nearly four years; he had the highest character for honesty—when I went to Mr. Wyllie I paid ready money—a person named Clements looked out the goods—I paid this at Mr. Jobnstone's own house—it must have been in the evening—it was not when I ordered some more goods—I paid him that day because that was the first time I saw him afterwards—when he gave me this invoice it was in the counting-house—I did not notice that he entered it in any book.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Who put to it this 16th, 4th month? A. Mr. Johnstone;' he was very unwell, and he said, "What day is this?" and my husband said, "Never mind, put down the same date you did to this."
SARAH ELLIS . I am the wife of Richard Ellis, 7, Adam-street, Seymourstreet, Bryanstone-sqnare—I went to the prosecutor's warehouse in Watlingstreet; I paid the prisoner the money mentioned in these two invoices—I can't say that I saw the prisoner sign these receipts, because I was not looking after him—he gave me the receipts, and I paid the money in his hand—one is for 10l. 11s. 7d. and the other 8l. 19s. 9d.—I paid them on 16th April and on 21st May.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you well acquainted with Mr. Johnstone? A. I have seen him several times—I have known him perhaps three years—it was Mr. Clements who showed me the goods—he called out to the prisoner what goods were purchased, and I suppose the prisoner put them down on this paper—I was not looking after him—Mr. Clements was there when I paid the prisoner the money—the money paid on 21st May was for goods bought then—I went there that day and Mr. Clements looked out these things for me—I had bought things at the house before—I considered the prisoner a most respectable man.
ROBERT WYLLIE What I stated in the former case was true—I kept certain books; supposing the prisoner to sell goods, it was his duty to enter the sale in the day-book, and it ought to have gone in the ledger as ready money, and into the cash-book of course—I have looked through my books; there is no entry that I am aware of, of this 2l. 18s. 4d., 10l. 11s. 7d., or 8l. 19s. 9d. on the days that have been mentioned—several of my cashbooks have been lost—the only cash-book I have got commences on 12th May, 1860—supposing this money to have been paid on 21st May it would have been the prisoner's duty to enter it in this book; and I don't see the entry.
Cross-examined. Q. The goods bought on 21st May were 8l. 19s. 9d.? A. Yes; and that is not entered—here is an entry on 23d May, "Received, money, 8l. 9s. 5d." but I don't know what it means—this has a round "0" to it—I don't know what it means—the prisoner had the privilege to buy goods at cost price for himself, but not to sell them—before he entered into that agreement he had goods the same as others would at cost price—but he did not take them away without my knowledge—I was often out of town—if he wanted goods while I was out he ought not to take them—before we entered into this agreement he did not take goods at cost price without my knowledge—he had no right to do it—he did owe me somewhere about 20l. for goods he had so taken—in this agreement it is stated I was to pay him weekly wages and the cash owing for goods was to be paid for, but he never paid it me—I suppose it is still an outstanding account;—the other
two persons had goods at cost price with my consent when I was out—I did not tell them, but Mr. Johnstone told them to take what they liked, he was answerable—Mr. Fletcher is here as one of my witnesses—there was an account against Mr. Fletcher for goods—this is the day-book—this is one of the books I have looked in, and I don't find any entry of these goods—I can't tell what this 8l. 9s. 5d. refers to—it ought to have been entered in the day-book—I don't find any entry in this book to which this 8l. 9s. 5d. refers—Mr. Clements can tell the cost price of these goods which were sold for 8l. 19s. 9d—I suppose they were sold at the usual profit, about 12 1/2 per cent—I can't find any entry that tallies with this 8l. 9s. 5d—I can't find any reason for this" "0; it is introduced for some purpose, I suppose—the prisoner did not give the account that he had bought the goods at cost price—I never knew him to do such a thing—I was away a good deal, but these ought to have been posted in the book; it was his duty—I have not heard Clements and Fletcher say over and over again that they took goods at cost price when they liked—I never heard it in my life—when I looked into the ledger I challenged the prisoner about it—when I was away Mr. Clements and Mr. Fletcher used to be there—I think I was not away on the 21st and 23d May—I think I was about town, but I was often in and out—I never in my life heard Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Clements say that they had bought goods at cost price and sold them again.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. There was no authority coming from you to part with goods at cost price? A. No—whether the goods were at cost price or not, it was the duty of the prisoner to enter them—I and my accountant have gone carefully through these books, and nose of these signs appear under the dates—I discovered through Mn. Ellis that Mrs. Moore was a friend of the prisoner's—here is nothing whatever in the book to tell of the transaction with Mrs. Moore:
JOSEPH FREELOVE . I am clerk to the accountant—I have looked to see whether there are these three accounts, and they do not appear at all—the names of Moore and Ellis do not appear in the day-book or in the ledger.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you find this ready with an "O" on 23d May in the day-book? A. Yes; I noticed this mark and I could not trace the precise sum in the day-book—generally speaking the names of persons are entered in the day-book—I have looked in the day-book and ledger and I can't find anything tallying with 8l. 9s. 5d. either in the ledger or, day-book, but in the cash-book the 8l. 9s. 5d. is on 23d May, and I cant connect that with any entry in the ledger or day-book—I find other marks like this in the cash-book, and I have endeavoured to find whether there are any corresponding entries with these in the ledger or day-book, and they do not appear—I find two or three of this description, so that in point of fact the prisoner debits himself with these sums, though I can't find any corresponding entry in the day-book or ledger.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. This cash-book commences on 12th May? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. Is there any eatry in the ledger of ready money? A. No—there are only two ready-money transactions in the six months entered in the day-book, this is it.
GUILTY .— Four years' Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, August 16th, 1860.
PRESENT—Mr. JUSTICE WILLES; Mr. Ald. CONDER; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY.— Judgment Respited.
MR. METCALFS conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH CLARK . I live at Hendon—Between 12 and 1 o'clock on the morning of 12th July, I turned out a mare and two geldings on a green at Collingdeek Lane, Hendon—they belonged to my father, Samuel Clark—at 6 o'clock that morning they were missing—I went in pursuit with Williams the constable, and traced them beyond St. Albans—when I arrived at Redbourn I found the mare and one gelding in the pound—that is about 19 miles from where I lost them—the other gelding returned home at 6 o'clock on the Saturday morning—they were stolen on the Friday—Brewer, the constable, gave up the horses to me—the value of the horses was 16l., the mare 10l., and the pony 4l.
Cross-examined by MR. ROWDEN. Q. How long had you had these horses? A. Two years, I think—they have not often started away before—they were loose on the road-side—they were none of them tethered—they were in an open space by the side of the road—there is grass there—it is quite unenclosed.
RICHARD WILLIAMS (Policeman, S 176). I accompanied Clark to Red-bourn, and saw the pony and the mare in the pound—the prisoner was in Redbourn police-station—about 11 o'clock on the night of Thursday, the 12th, I saw him at Hendon, just about fifty yards from where the horses were; he was by himself—he had his boots in his hand and his coat across his shoulder—I spoke to him—all that I could understand that he said was "London"—when he was delivered to me at Redbourn he had neither boots nor coat on.
Cross-examined. Q. You were on the road at the time? A. I was on duty—there was no one else on the road at the time—it was 11 o'clock at night.
GEORGE CATLIN . On Friday morning, 13th July, I saw a lad about 16 or 17 years old, with two horses and a pony, at the Bald-faced Stag where I was stopping, near Edgware; it was a little after three in the morning—he was driving them towards Edgware, coming from Hendon—I knew that the pony belonged to Clark—the boy had no shoes or coat with him.
Cross-examined. Q. You can't swear that it was the prisoner? A. No; I can swear to the pony and gelding.
COURT. Q. Were there any bridles, or ropes or anything? A. No; I did not see any bridles—he was running after them, driving them along—I did not see anything in his hand—I knew the pony to be Clark's—I did not think of making any enquiries about it before night, when I saw Mr. Clark—I thought it very strange, but I was busy at the time, or else I should have turned them back—there was no fair anywhere.
WINSLER WISE . I am keeper of the toll-gate at St. Albans—on Friday, 13th, about 8 o'clock in the morning I saw the prisoner coming with a horse and a pony—St. Albans is on the London side of Redbourn—he was driving them towards St. Albans—I asked him where he brought them from, and he
talked that language that I could not understand what he said—I afterwards asked him where he was going to take them to; he pointed towards St. Albaus—I asked him for the toll, and he turned his pocket inside out—he understood me, but I could not understand him—he had a rope over bis shoulder, and I told him that I must have that for the toll, and that when his master came and paid the toll he should have the rope—I took the rope—it was something similar to a cart rope—the horses then went through—he drove them on towards St. Albans.
JOHN BREWER (34,Hertfordshire Constabulary). At 12 o'clock on the Friday night I saw the prisoner coming over the bridge at Redbourn, from the direction of St. Albans—he had with him a horse and pony—I followed him to the public-house—he drove the hones to a trough—I asked him where he came from; all that I could understand of what he said was "London"—I took him into custody and delivered him to police-constable Williams the next morning—the pony aud horse I put in the pound, and afterwards delivered them up also—the prisoner had no coat or shoes.
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
714. WILLIAM THOMAS HONESS (27), was indicted (together with AMBROSE CASABIANCA whose trial was postponed until the next Session) for unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Ladislas Kiss, 726 yards of silk, value 15l. 5s., with intent to cheat and defraud him thereof. Other Counts, for conspiracy.
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES HILEY . I am manager to Mr. Ladislas Kiss, warehouseman, at 93, Wat ling-street—he has no partner—I recollect Casabianca coming to me early in May—I had known him before as the agent of Messrs. Million, of Lyons—he said he had recommended a gentleman to us who wanted to buy some silk goods, and he thought we might very safely deal with him—this was on 5th May, I think—he said the order was so small that he did not think it worth while to send it to Lyons for execution, and that he knew the class of goods we generally kept, and that we could do the thing right for him—I inquired of him who the gentleman was—he said he was a very respectable man; that he had had transactions with Million and Co., and had always paid them—he said that he did not owe them anything then; and that we might safely trust him—he said nothing more at that time—I don't think he gave any name at that time—he said the person would call—he said he wanted about eight or ten pieces of silk—about two days afterwards the prisoner Honess called—he said that he was the person "recommended" by Mr. Casabianca—I don't remember whether he used the word recommended—it was either "recommended" or "introduced"—he said he wanted to select a few pieces of silk—he was shown some goods, and the goods were selected for him—he told us at the same time that he had had transactions with Million and Co. himself, to the extent of 8000 or 10,000 francs; or more than that, some 20.000 francs—he said he did not owe them anything then; he had not had transactions with them for some two months, or it might be more—he subsequently showed me some bills—he said he wanted the goods to ship them—I understood him to say to Hamburg—he named some foreign place but I did not take particular notice—he pamed some place in Germany
—he did not mention the name, I think, to whom he was going to send them—I went to his office in Moorgate-street chambers a day or two afterwards—we had not then parted with the goods; they had been looked at—I went to his office for the purpose of seeing what sort of a place he had got—he had got very good furniture and there was every appearance of respectability about it—I interrogated him as to his transactions with Million and Co., and he showed me then some bills of Million and Co. which had been drawn on him, and, I believed, paid; I had no reason to doubt it—I do not recollect the sums of the bills; I saw the name of Million and Co.—he confirmed those remarks which he had previously made, that he owed them nothing at that time—I asked him where he kept his account—he said at the Unity Bank; I decided eventually on allowing him to have the goods—it was principally the introduction from Mr. Casabianca, and subsequently the recommendation we received from Mr. Bellamin, that induced me to let him have them—if I had known that he had not an account at the Unity Bank that would have influenced me to some extent—I applied to Mr. Bellamin and had a statement made to me by him—he is clerk or manager to Messrs. Million of Lyons—the goods were sent and an invoice sent with them—4s. 2d. was the price agreed on for them—the amount of them was 151l. 5s.—this (produced) is the bill that was given by Honess for the goods—it was dishonoured (Read: dated "March, 1860: 151l. 12s. Drawn by Kiss upon Honess and Co., and accepted payable at the Unity Bank; at one month")—I believe this (produced) is the letter that I received from Honess before the goods were supplied—I believe it to be in his writing from the knowledge that I have obtained of his writing—(Letter read: "Moorgate-street Chambers; May 11th, 1860. Messrs. Kiss and Co. "Gentlemen, I thought after the explanation I had with you yesterday, that you would not have any objection in sending me the goods. I have seen Mr. Bellamin, and should you be satisfied with his statement I will take the goods at once, at one month's date, which I consider as good as cash; if not, please cancel the order at once as I cannot wait any longer. Yours respectfully, W. G. Honess and Co.")—The goods were sent on 12th May—I received this letter on 23d May which I believe to bein Honess's writing, (Read: "23d May, Messrs. Kiss and Co.—Gentlemen, having received a letter from my correspondent in Hamburg, stating that he is in want of about 21 1/2 yards more of black silk to complete his order, and if you have three pieces the same as last please send them in with bill as before—hoping you will be able to make some allowance on that small parcel, as you charged us one penny more than what we arranged, namely 4s. 2d. instead of 4s. 1d. "Signed—"W.G. Honess and Co."—I allowed him to have those goods—I do not recollect what day they were sent—I believe a bill was given for the second parcel and was dishonoured—it was also made payable to the Unity Bank.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. What was the day on which you first saw the prisoner? A. To the best of my recollection it was 7th or 8th May—I made no memorandum of what passed on that occasion—I called on him at his office in Moorgate-street, two or three days afterwards, and then he showed me certain bills of Messrs. Million, which I supposed were paid—he held them in his hand and said "These are bills of Million and Co."—I dare say I could have taken them in my own hands if I had thought proper, but I did not do so—I don't recollect that he named Monsieur Bellamin at that time—I made enquiries of Monsieur Bellamin because ho represented the firm of Million and Co.—he is not a partner in that firm, that I am aware of—I do not know that he is one of the firm—I think I
could venture to say that he is not, but I would not swear it—the prisoner did not, that I recollect, refer me to Mr. Bellamin at all—I inquired of Mr. Bellamin, and the result of my inquiry was satisfactory and recommendatory—very probably I left the office in Moorgate-street with a purpose, and stating my purpose, of making further inquiries; and I subsequently made those further inquiries—I believe I wrote a letter to the prisoner—I have not got my letter-book in court—the letter written by myself was, I believe, after I had received the letter from the prisoner which has been read—I might have been in the counting-house when the selection of the silk took place, but it was not under my direction—I do not know the quality of the silks that were selected—at the time the second parcel of silks was applied for I made an objection—I declined supplying them with a second parcel of goods unless the first goods were paid for, or unless he gave us good security—I expressed my willingness to receive a bill with the endorsement of a third party, if the party was respectable—a bill was then given to me, indorsed, I believe, by a gentleman named Parker—I was satisfied with that indorsement at the time—the terms are always arranged by somebody else in the establishment.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. What did those goods that were sold at 4s. 2d., cost the firm? A. I cannot tell that—Mr. Joseph Kiss will be better able to prove that.
Q. How did you get the name of Parker in the bill? A. Mr. Honess brought the gentleman to our warehouse and introduced him to us, and of course I deemed it necessary to make some inquiries—I asked Parker personally of whom the inquiries were to be made—he gave me his father's name and address, and stated that he was living with his father; I therefore went to his father's house, and in some other instances I was taken off my guard by appearances; his father being a very respectable man as we had every reason to believe—Parker has not paid the bill—I made inquiries of Mr. Bellamin in consequence of Honess' statement to me—I also made some inquiries of a person of the name of Levick, in Nottingham, by Mr. Houess' suggestion—I communicated with Messrs. Levick and received this letter in answer (Read: "14th May, 1860: from Robert Levick to Messrs. Ladislas Kiss and Co.—Gentlemen, in reply to yours, I beg to say that I did business with Messrs. Honess Brunow and Co. to the amount of 600l.; but it is now some four or five months since I did anything with them, and think they ought not to have referred you to me"—I did not see that the bills which were shown to me, were paid—naturally when a person holds a bill which is drawn upon him, I take it for granted that it is paid—I interrogated Mr. Bellamin in order that Mr. Casabianca's report of Honess might be confirmed; his stating that he had transactions with the firm of Million; I asked Mr. Bellamin if such was the case, and he said, yes; that he knew Mr. Honess, and believed him to be very respectable, and that they had trusted him with 500l. or 600l., and that he had paid them—he said that Honess owed them nothing.
HENRY BROWNE . I was present when Honess came with regard to these goods—I heard him say that he intended to ship them to Holland—I understood him to say distinctly, to his brother—I was present when be stated that he had had transactions with Million to the amount of several thousand francs, and that he had paid all—I was present when Casabianoa came in the first instance.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he say that he had paid for all he had had? A. He did—I do venture to say that at that time he mado some statement with
respect to his brother—I was asked at the Mansion-house whether I would venture to swear so; I said to the best of my belief it was so, but still I would not swear; but I had the impression that it was so—I was engaged in the selling the silks—I did not personally select them—I selected the price that he wanted and showed him the silk to select—they were not at all a mixed parcel, they were picked goods—we have two numbers, the trade number and the manufactory number; we introduce them into the invoice as a reference to the silk—all the goods were of the same quality—every piece passed through my hands—they were all black—the goods, to the extent of the first invoice, all passed through my hands.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. You know what was paid by your firm for those goods? A. 3s. 6 1/2 d.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you buy them? A. No.
COURT. Q. Is Mr. Kiss a wholesale dealer? A. Yes; he buys from the Lyons people.
JOSEPH KISS . I am clerk to the prosecutor, and am his brother—I recollect Casabianca coming to our place—I was not present when he came—I afterwards saw Honess come—he had some private conversation with our manager When he came in, and then he came out and laid the goods before him—Mr. Brown then went away, and I had some conversation with Honess—he said he had transactions with Million and Co., at Lyons, to the extent of 8,000 or 10,000 francs—he said he wanted to ship the goods to Holland.
Cross-examined. Have you transactions with Messrs. Million and Co.? A. Yes; I don't know whether these silks came from there.
EDWARD BICKMORE . Q. I am porter to the prosecutor—I delivered some pieces of silk at Mr. Honess', Moorgate-street chambers—the clerk received the first parcel—I have my book here; the clerk signed his name there—I delivered another parcel of goods on 26th May—Mr. Honess himself received the parcel; it was about the size of three pieces of silk.
FRANCIS BENNOCH . I am a warehouseman in Wood-street—I recollect Honess bringing some silk to my house; he brought one or two pieces as samples—it was early in May—the price was not agreed on then, but subsequently 3s. 2d. and 2 1/2 per cent, discount was agreed on—this is the original invoice (produced)—I purchased the goods at 3s. 2d. and 2 1/2 per cent discount—cash was paid for those goods; the total is 130l. 18s.—the invoice is dated 17th May—there was a considerable difference in the value of the goods—it appeared to me that three pieces were pretty good, and all the rest inferior—two of them decidedly better, but the other was pretty good—we had the folds counted, and we afterwards discovered they were five yards short—the party to whom we sold them measured them—the length of each piece is entered in the Day-book.
Cross-examined. Q. You have had considerable experience in the silktrade? A. Yes; I say that two pieces were of fair value, one a little worse, and seven were decidedly inferior—I believe the price asked me was 4s. 1d. or 4s. 2d.—in reply to that I said it was so much above the market value that I could not entertain it, and I desired the samples to be left—he pressed a sale, but I declined—I gave the full market value.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. How many did you sell at a loss? A. On the whole eight pieces there was a loss of 1 per cent.—the profit on the whole transaction was 3l. 3s. 4d.—I sold them again within a week or ten days.
MR. LILLEY. Q. You have had other transactions with the prisoner, have you not? A. None in regard to buying—I have sold him some goods, some 200l. or 300l. worth—in all transactions I have found his character perfectly honeat and respectable.
MR. ROBINSON. Q When was the last transaction you had with him? A. In August or September 1859—after that he made an application tome with regard to references—he referred several parties to me; two in Hull and one in Bristol—I replied to them, and said I had had transactions with Honess and Co.—it was two or three weeks after September, 1859, that he made that application to me—I sold him no more goods after that, and had no further reference—some time before that I had advanced him some money, once 5l., and then about 2l.; that was about the month of February.
WILLIAM ANDREWS . I am clerk to Mr. Bennooh—I know the length of the goods that were received from Honess—I did not measure them myself—they were not measured in our place at all—they were entered from the measurement marked on the pieces, by Mr. Rochall, the entering clerk.
JAMES STEAD AMPLEFORD . I was clerk to Mr. Honess in May last—I had been so very nearly ten months—I believe up to September he was in partnership with a person named Brunow—I think he left in November—Honess removed from Ooleman-street to Moorgate-street chambers; that was the latter end of September—I know Casabianca, he was at the place every day; he transacted business there—sometimes he would stop away for a day or two—there was very good mahogany furniture in the office—there were account books on the shelves; they were not used after Mr. Brunow left—Honess was in the Queen's Bench in January I think—I went there nearly every day—I have seen Casabianca there, in the prison with Honess—he remained there nine or ten days—subsequently to that, persons were in the habit of calling—they only said they wanted to see Mr. Honess—once there was a writ left—that was a short, time before the goods came in—I did not see this paper (produced)—the writ was not on parchment.
JAMES AMPLEFORD (continued). I entered the names of Johnson, Gilman and Co.; Evans is the person who served the writ—the date of the writ is 1st May, and the amount is 97l. 15s.—I gave a copy of the writ to Mr. Honess; Casabianca saw it—he was in his private room at the time the writ was served; he did not say anything to me about it—no other demands of money have been made to my knowledge—I heard Honess say to Casabianca "Have you been to Mr. Kiss's?" and Casabianca said he had made that all right—I heard nothing else pass between them before the goods were delivered—Honess told me that if Bellamin asked me whether the goods had come, I was to say they had not, whether they had or not—I recollect Honess telling me to take some silk to Mr. Bennoch's; that was the silk that had come from Messrs. Kiss—I received the silk from the porter, and my signature is in the book—Honess told me to take one of the pieces to Beunoch's—I did not hear what took place—I took the rest subsequently by Mr. Honess's direction—before that there was a man in possession of the premises—I recollect being sent to Mr. Kiss's about some goods; I was to fetch three pieces of silk from there—Mr. Kiss told me he had just sent them; I communicated that afterwards to Honess—he said that was quite right—I did not see the goods when I got back, most likely I should have seen them if they had been there—I told Mr. Honess there was a man in possession; he did not make any answer—the man remained forty-five days—he was in possession before the second parcel came; I don't recollect how
long before—Bellamin told me to go to Mr. Bennoch's once to fetch the silk; Honess afterwards told me not to go—Honess told me to go and wait down stairs and come up again presently, and to say that Mr. Bennoch was out—I know Casabianca's handwriting; this letter of 22d February in his handwriting—this signature of 9th April 13 his, and also this of the 13th.
Cross-examined. Q. When did you go into the employment of Mr. Honess? A. In September, 1859—at that time I believe he was in partnership with Mr. Brunow—Mr. Brunow was there a great deal more than Casabianca—Brunow left to go to France; I don't think he went away unexpectedly—I have been with Russell, the police-constable, since this matter, three or four times a-week—I talked over this matter with firm from time to time—I think Brunow went about the beginning of November; I knew he was going beforehand because he was preparing his boxes—he told me he was going away and bade me good-bye when he went—the conversation between Honess and Casabianca took place in May, I am sure of that—I know it was in May because it was just before the time the goods came in—the words were "Have you been there?"—they were talking about Mr. Kiss afterwards—Mr. Casabianca said, "Where?" in answer to that question, and Honess said, "In Watling-street"—I afterwards heard Mr. Kiss's name mentioned, every now and then; I was not in the same room, the door was not open—I took the silk to Mr. Bennoch's—it was in parcels—I saw it folded up.
Q. You say that you were told that if Mr. Bellamin asked you about the goods you were to say they had not come; did not that refer to the silk that Mr. Bennoch had? A. Yes; not to anything that came from Mr. Kiss's—the silk that came from Mr. Kiss's never went out of the house till I took it—it was in the warehouse—it was in my sight—I had to go into the ware-house two or three times, and I could not help seeing it—it was there altogether nine or ten days; I went into the warehouse very nearly every day—the policeman came to me first at the end of last month—I did not take any paper out of the office and give it to Kiss—I did not do anything with the invoice Mr. Kiss sent with the silk—I never took that invoice out of the house; Mr. Honess told me to give it to him—on my oath I never took a paper, invoice, or anything else belonging to my master out of the house and gave it to Mr. Kiss—Casabianca came about four or five times a-week—sometimes he remained an hour, sometimes longer, and sometimes not so long—he would sometimes stop to write a letter there—there were three rooms at the office—I know there was something being done to Casabianca's office at that time—I don't know what it was.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. What office are you speaking of? A. He had an office in Cheapside—I don't know the last time he had it there—he was in the habit of coming all the ten months I was there—I was at the Mansion-house and examined there three times—Brunow packed his things at the office—I do not recollect Honess being there at any time when he was packing—I recollect taking a cheque to the Unity Bank—I did not see this cheque (produced)—I took a cheque to cash—a message was given to me at the bank—the man said that Mr. Honess had drawn 3s. 2d. too much—I told Mr. Honess that; he said nothing—I went out of the room, and he afterwards gave me another cheque to get cashed—I went, got the money, 1l. 12s. 2d., and gave it to Mr. Honess.
COURT. Q. What is the date of that cheque? A. April 9th.
—it happened to be that instead of 1l. 15s. 8d. because there was 3s. 6d. on a bill—I afterwards received this cheque and cashed it, and that closed the account with Mr. Honess—he has never had any account there since.
JOHN LEVI MIERS . I am a commission agent carrying on business at 35, Broad-street Buildings—I know the prisoner—on 26th May, the date of that invoice, he brought me three pieces of silk—at that time I held a bill of his for 20l.—he offered me these goods for 4s. 2d.—the security was worthless at that time—I had no other security—he owed me the 20l.—I had demanded the payment of the bill before—the date of the bill is 21st May.
Cross-examined. Q. You have had some transactions with him have you not? A. Yes; I should say to the extent of 150l.—I have always found, him honest in his dealings—he has always paid me—he afterwards paid me that—he showed me a memorandum showing that the goods had cost him 4s. 2d.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was it the invoice or memorandum he showed you? A. It might have been the invoice; I did not see Mr. Kiss's name on it.
EDWARD HOLMES . I am a commission agent—I know Casablanca—I was introduced by him to Honess about the end of February—I was to buy goods for Mr. Honess in the country—I was engaged by him to do that—I was to receive 2 1/2 per cent, on purchases, and travelling expenses paid—he gave me the names of Messrs. Million and Co. and Mr. Levick of Badford, near Nottingham, to refer to—I was to refer in Cheapside for Messrs. Million—Casabianca was their representative at that time—about a fortnight afterwards he gave me the name of Johnson, Gilman, and Co.—I learnt after I returned from France, that they were the parties who are suing him on this bill—I have heard from Honess that he has accepted certain bills from Messrs. Johnson, Gilman, and Co., four had been returned to him, and one he was being sued upon—he told me that, at the end of April or the beginning of May—I went on a journey; I got 5l. advanced to me and was ordered to receive 24l. on the journey—about the beginning of April, Casabianca proposed that I should join him in partnership—I am not a person of large means, and I told him so—I went to Lyons, at his suggestion, and when I came back I declined to go into partnership with him—I have been present when Honess and Casabianca have been together—the last time I was at Messrs. Honess's office, Casabianca said to Honess, "You had better go on to Mr. Kiss's; I have made it all right there"—Casabianca told me he was very intimate with Bellamin and had great influence over him—I can't exactly say the words, but I think it was that he could turn him any way he pleased—I can't say positively whether I have heard Casabianca say anything about a bill of Honess's that he held from Million and Co.—I have not heard any conversation between them, with reference to bills that have not been paid.
Cross-examined. Q. You say that you heard from Honess that he had accepted six bills, accommodation bills, was it not? A. I can't possibly say—that was my impression; four he had received back and one he was being sued upon.
GEORGE RUSSELL . I am a detective officer—I apprehended the prisoner on 24th July, on a warrant which I have here—I read it to him and told him he was charged with conspiring with Casabianca to get 750 yards of silk—he said, "Mr. Kiss will suffer for this;" he said that Casabiauca knew all about it, and that he had the greater part of the money—that the silks had been obtained to turn into money to take up his own acceptance in favour of Million and Co.—he handed me three letters, that is one (produced) there is
no date on it—he said that that letter was written at the time the goods were at Mr. Bennoch's, and before they were paid for—that upon receiving that letter he applied to Mr. Bennoch and got the money—he said he handed the 51l. mentioned in the letter to Casabianca—(letter read) "Dear Honess,—Your delay in the affair yesterday has put me to a great deal of inconvenience, and unless the 51l. is paid to hand by 2 o'clock, I shall not escape his bad treatment"—The prisoner stated that he had paid Casabianca 28l. before the 51l.—he said he had got that from Mr. Bennoch—he said it was only in consequence of a suggestion from Casabianca that he went to Mr. Kiss at all, he really did not know Mr. Kiss—that was all that passed with Honess—I afterwards apprehended Casabianca.
Cross-examined. Q. You say you read the warrant, is that so? A. I did when I arrested him—he did not mention White cross-street or Horsemonger-lane—I said that this was a criminal charge—I believe it was after I told him that that he said Mr. Kiss would suffer for it—the prisoner's wife was there—there were two other letters; these are them (produced).
MR. LILLEY submitted that there was no case of false pretences, that the prisoner dealt with the goods in the ordinary course of trade: he also contended that there was not sufficient evidence of conspiracy with Casabianca to justify a conviction; MR. JUSTICE WILLES was of opinion that there was some evidence of conspiracy, from the fact of Casabianca introducing Honess to Holmes for the purpose of getting goods; when he knew at the time, that shortly before, Honess had been in the Queen's Prison, and that he had referred him first of all to Million and Co, and then to Levick, and then to Johnson, Gilman, and Co.; he considered that there was also evidence in the statement made in the letter, written by Casabianca.
(The following letters from Casabianca to Million and Co. were then read; they were in French. The first was dated, 8th February, 1860, and contained the following passage—"I request of you to be good enough to return the protest of Messrs. Honess and Co. and to tell me seriously if you will assist them with some good introductions until they pay us—I had sworn to have them put in prison, but I see that I should not have got any good by it"—The other letter was dated 13th April; the following passage was read,"What shall I say to you? I see them every day, but their condition does not yet permit them to pay—it is, perhaps, a poor commiseration to tell you that other houses are in for loss, much more considerable than ours; but after all I promise you to have a loan upon theca, and to get out of it in one way or another.")
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
OLD COURT. Friday, August 17th, 1860
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. HALE; and Mr. Ald. CONDER.
For the case of Henry Messenger and others, tried this day, see Surrey Cases.
NEW COURT.—Friday, August 17th, and Saturday, August 18th, 1860.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HALE; Mr. Ad. CONDER; and ROBERT MALCOLM Kerr, Esq.
For the case of John Constant Woillez and Charles Bliss, see Surrey Cases.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
GEORGE LANE . I am a watchman in the London and Victoria Docks—on Sunday afternoon, 29th July, I was engaged as a watchman on the C jetty—there were a quantity of casks of wine there—I saw the prisoner on that occasion go to a cask and move it a little—he took out the bung of the cask and poured wine from it—he took the bung out with this tickler or short piece of iron (produced)—he then pulled the cask a little towards him, and after having tilted it he put into the cask something such a pipe as this (produced)—I saw it in his hand when he took out the bung—I could not see the wine exactly—wine did run out into this pail (produced)—the pail came from his shop; I saw him bring it—there was another man with him at a distance of three yards off—that is the sort of pail used by the smiths and engineers—I believe the wine was sherry—I had noticed the prisoner several times the week previous—I could not exactly recognise the other man—there was nothing to obstruct my view of the prisoner; I was three or four minutes observing him—when I found him do this I sprang out, and when they saw me come they both ran away—I spoke to some one else—I went down into the workshop the same day—I did not see the prisoner there; he ought to have been there—he is in the mechanic line—I can't say exactly what his business is; he works amongst the mechanics—I gave him in charge the following morning—I noticed his clothing on the Sunday afternoon—on the Monday morning he wore quite a change of clothing to what he had on on the Sunday—I had seen him several times during the week before—on the Monday he wore different clothes to what I had seen him in at any time before.
Cross-Examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. About how far were you from the cask which was tapped? A. About thirty yards—it was on the edge of the hill—I was not nearer to the man who came partly up to the cask than I was to the man who was at the cask—the other man was further along the hill; about three yards from the cask—the mechanics dress very much alike with regard to working dress—there were a great number of wine casks where the cask was—they all stood on the ground—they are all the same height; from three to four feet high—it was not the one nearest to me that was tapped; there were I should think three or four between the place where I stood and tfie one that was tapped—there were not seven or eight nor six; there might be three or four—I was on duty—there is a platform that goes across, and I had occasion to go into a little temporary booking-office that was there, and I was looking through the window—that looks immediately towards the wine casks—I showed inspector Porter where I was looking from—there is no door to that office; it is all open on the side away from the casks—there were six or seven men at work on that day altogether—there might be eight—there was not more than one gang—I am not exactly sure whether there was any other work to do except mending the crane—I went down to the shed where they were at work—I found, I should think, altogether, seven or eight men at work—I know I could not see the prisoner amongst them—I cannot say to one how many I did see—I asked a strange man whether he went up the bonk; he said no
—that was a man who was working; he was a stranger to me—I do not know now that his name was Blades—I was by myself at that time—I asked another man whether he went up, but I do not know his name—I asked two men, no more—they both said no.
MR. JONES. Q. There was no other gang working near? A. No—I did not know who the other man with the prisoner was—it was the prisoner that I was trying to find out—I knew him to be the man; I never changed my opinion on that point.
JOHN PORTER . I am inspector of the police at the docks—I remember on Sunday, 29th July last, from information I received I went to the C jetty at the docks—I found there a cask; the bung had been disturbed and the cask was tilted on one side—the bung had been taken out and replaced—I saw a pail with some sherry wine in it—in consequence of what I heard from Lane I went down to the blacksmith's shop, and from the description he gave me of Pegram I went and asked the timekeeper how many men he had had there—he told me seven—I asked to count them; we counted them—there were six—Pegram was missing—I searched the place through for him; all the shops—I did not find him—I went to his house, about two miles off—he was not there—this tickler was given to me by Palmer, a watchman—the pipe was given me by another watchman, Cocker—I saw Lane again next morning—I took possession of the pail and the wine and produce it (produced)—there is a slight portion of water mixed with it—I saw the prisoner on the following morning about 8 o'clock—he was then given into my custody—I have compared the tickler and syphon with the marks in the bung and they correspond—these instruments are not allowed in the docks—the prisoner being a blacksmith's labourer had access to them—this is not a tool that is used in the docks.
COURT. Q. How do you take out the bung? A. We knock it on the side of the cask—this is not such a tool as a blacksmith would have; it is such as he could easily procure—when I took the prisoner into custody he said he was not there at the time; that he went over to Poplar—when I was taking him to Ilford gaol he said that he went out at the north gate and had a pint of beer with another man—it was between 12 and 1 o'clock on the Monday morning that he said that—he said that he went at 3 o'clock—the public-houses are supposed to close at 3 o'clock on Sunday.
Cross-examined. Q. What did the prisoner say about going out at the north gate? A. He said, "I can't blame you for what you have done; I am innocent of it; I went out at the north gate and had a pint of beer with another man at a public-house opposite"—that was all he said; he told me that on the road to Ilford—there were two separate conversations—when I took him into custody at 8 o'clock in the morning he said he was innocent of it—he both times said he was innocent—he said, "I was away, I went to Poplar"—afterwards, on the way to gaol, he said, "I can't blame you, Mr. Porter, for what you have done; I am innocent—I went out at the north gate at 3 o'clock and had a pint of beer at the public-house opposite"—he said nothing in the gaol—I went to his house on the Sunday afternoon—I saw his wife there, and I asked to see him, and found that he was not at home—I did not explain why I came there—I was known there—Land went to the shed with me when I went, and had the workmen counted over—we went down directly after he gave me the information—I was there when Lane inquired of some other men whether they had been up the hill—I was about five yards from Lane then—he inquired of two men whether they had been there—an engineer or anybody might get this tool as well as
a blacksmith—I do not know whether there was any other gang working there, or whether these eight or nine men were all that were working there on the Sunday—I think there is no one here from the docks who can tell that—I have taken no steps at all to ascertain whether there were any more working there at that time—I have not had the assistance of the metropolitan police in there—we have them in sometimes, but we have not many robberies there—wine robberies are very frequent—they are a different sort—we do not have many robberies that call for the assistance of the metropolitan police constables—I believe the prisoner has been in the service five years.
COURT. Q. Do you know his pay? A. About 27s. a week.
MR. JONES. Q. When he told you that he went out at the north gate did he say what public-house he went to? A. He said the public-house opposite—there are two public-houses opposite—there are several near—wine robberies are very frequent—other robberies are not frequent.
WILLIAM TAYLOR . I was keeping the time of the gang in which the prisoner was—the gang consisted of eight—they were employed on Sunday, the 29th, in repairing a portion of a crane—from information I received I was indrtced to count the men—I took their time after dinner—when I looked to see them between 2 and 3 they were all present except one of the name of Beale, a carpenter, who left at 12 o'clock—the prisoner was then present—in consequence of what I heard I went down afterwards with Inspector Porter to see the men—the prisoner was then absent—all the other six were present.
Cross-examined. Q. You check the time? A. Yes; I note down the quarters they work—there are four quarters to the day—the first quarter on Sundays is from 7 till 9, the second from 9 till 12, the third from 1 till 3 and the fourth from 3 till 5, or half-past 5—Beale was not there when I counted him between 2 and 3—I checked him at 12—they may go at any time subject to their losing that amount of pay—we check them at the end of the quarter.
COURT. Q. When did you look at them on this occasion? A. Between 2 and 3—that was not at the end of the quarter—I went round to see them when they had come from dinner.
FRANCIS PALMER . I am a dock constable—on Sunday afternoon, 29th July, from information I received I made a search among the wine casks on the wine jetty—I found a tickler and gave it to the constable, Porter; it was between three and four yards from the casks.
JOHN HAWKER . I am a watchman in the Victoria Docks—from information I received I went round to the Docks on Monday—I found a scrap iron there—I turned it up and smelt the end of it, and as far as I can judge it Smelt of wine; it was dry inside—it was six feet from the smith's shop—the prisoner works there sometimes.
Cross-examined. Q. You mean the smith's shop where they were repairing the crane? A. Yes.
EDWARD PRATT . I am a cooper at the Victoria Docks—on Saturday, 18th July, about a quarter to 6 in the evening, I examined cask No. 3 on B jetty—it was perfectly safe then—the hole was perfectly safe—I examined it again on Monday morning and found the bung out.
WILLIAM RAY . I am a porter at the Victoria Docks—on the afternoon of Sunday, about eight minutes to 3, I was at the North gate—I know the prisoner perfectly well; I have known him for years—he did not pass through
that gate—between eight minutes to 3 and 8 o'clock he might have passed without my noticing because I had to attend to the bath-room furnace; I did not see him pass.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose the gate is kept all day, there is some one who relieves you? A. Yes, a man named Bevan—he is here.
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. BEST and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
ALICE POWER . My sister, Mrs. Hodson, keeps the Royal Mortar Tavern, at Woolwich—on 16th July, the prisoner came there and asked for a pint of beer, I served him, and he gave me a half-crown—I put it in the till where there was not any other half-crown—I gave him 2s. 4d. change—he left the bar and returned in a quarter of an hour and asked for change for a half-crown—I gave him 2s. 6d. and put the half-crown in the till—I had not then any other half-crowns in the till but those I had put in—something struck me and I looked at the prisoner, suspecting he had given me a bad half-crown—he left, and I looked at the half-crown and found it was bad—I sent after the prisoner; he came back, and I said, "You gave me a bad half-crown"—he said he was not aware of it, and he gave me the 2s. 6d. back, and I gave him the last half-crown, and he said he did not want it; he took it away—I then examined the other half-crown and found that was bad—I sent after the prisoner again; he was brought back, and I gave him in charge—I marked the half-crown and gave it to the officer.
CHARLES JAMES . I am ostler at the Royal Mortar Tavern—the last witness sent me after the prisoner on 16th July; I overtook him about twenty yards off walking slowly—I said to him, "Were you at the Royal Mortar?—he said "Yes"—I said "Be kind enough to come back"—he did so, and the last witness gave him back a half-crown, and he went away—after that I was sent after him again—he was then about fifty yards off—I said to him "Come back, we want you, we are not going to let you off so easy as we did before"—I took him back, the policeman was sent for, and he was given into custody.
THOMAS HOPPER . (Policeman, R 346). I took the prisoner into custody at the Royal Mortar on 16th July—I charged him with passing two bad half-crowns—he said she ought to have told him of it—I took him in the kitchen and searched him; there I found on him the half-crown that was given him back and 2s. 2 1/2 d., good money—I produce another half-crown which was given me by Alice Power.
Prisoner's Defence. I had been working the same day in the Arsenal, I afterwards went to get the beer; I did not know the money was bad.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
MR. MCDONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS WATSON (Policeman R, 124). On 6th July I was in Deptford Broadway about 3 o'clock in the morning I saw the prisoner carrying this carpet bag—I asked him what he had got, he said he did not know—I said "Where did you get it?"—he said "At the place where the military are, I don't know the name of the place"—I asked where he was to take it—he said, "To London Bridge"—I said, "To whom there?"—he said to Mrs. Adams, but he did not know where she lived, but it was close to London Bridge, and there was a board over the door—I took him to the station—there are a number of articles in the bag—this book was in his pocket—I took Mr. Whityear to the station and he identified this book as belonging to his master.
JAMES WHITYEAR . I was taken by the last witness to the station at Greenwich, I indentified this book as the property of my employer, Mr. James Cobbett, he is an Upholsterer at Greenwich—I had seen it something like a fortnight before it was taken from a loft belonging to my employer at Greenwich.
NOT GUILTY .
719. PATRICK LADEN (22), WILLIAM SMITH (23), JOSEPH SWEETLOVE (23), WILLIAM RULE (23), and WILLIAM HAMMOND (24) , Breaking and entering the shop of Charles France, and stealing therein 4 birdcages and a bolster, his property.
MR. MCDONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES FRANCE . I am an upholsterer residing at Edward-street Woolwich—on the morning of 20th July I was awoke by somebody coming to my place—I went down stairs and examined the shop shutters—it was some people passing the door—I discovered that the bar had been forced and two shutters taken down—I missed four cages and a bolster, my property, belonging to a sofa-bedstead—I stopped there, leaving the shutters as they were, till a policeman came; I then put up the shutters and went with the policeman to the station—I there found the prisoners, the cages, and the bolster—these (produced) are the things—I had seen them the night before, at 11 o'clock in my shop when I closed the shop.
JOHN WILLIAM COGGER (Policeman, R 443). On the morning of 20th July, about half-past 2, I was on duty in Powia-street, Woolwich—I there saw the five prisoners; they were coming towards me from the shop—they had these cages with them—they all had something—I asked them where they got the cages from; they said they found them—I said, "If you found them, if you bring them to the station you will get a reward;" they declined doing so—with the assistance of another constable we endeavoured to get the cages from them; they got away from us—with the assistance of O'Leary the officer, and another constable, I got the cages—I am certain that these are the men; I had seen them three or four times that evening.
Hammond. Q. Did you see us previously all together? A. Yes; at the George and Dragon, about half-past 10.
COURT. Q. Did you ask them to give up the cages? A. Yes—they had the cages when I first saw them, but when we apprehended them we took the cages from them, and took them to the station.
officers assisted—the prisoners had the cages when I came up—they were asked to go to the station with them and they would get a reward for their trouble—they refused to do so, and with great difficulty we got the cages from them—there were altogether, I dare say, ten or twelve officers, taking these men in custody.
COURT. Q. Had they been drinking? A. They were not under the influence of drink.
Laden's Defence. We found the cages about forty yards from where we met those police-officers, and we intended to give them to the first policeman we met, and, as they were the first, we gave them to them.
Hammond's Defence. As soon as we found those things we stood over them a minute, wondering how they got there. I said, "Well, it is quite likely somebody has been removing, and the cart has been overloaded, and these have fallen of;" so we all came to that conclusion; and we picked them up and intended to give them to the first policeman we met.
COURT to CHARLES FRANCE. Q. Where were the shutters when you got down stairs? A. Near the corner of the shop, on the ground at the side of the other shutters—the cages had been on a sofa which I had in front, just inside the shop, so that when the shutters were taken down the cages were exposed—they had been close to the front—it is not a window; it is an open front in the daytime, and shutters are put up at night—it is a corner shop; the shutters were not round the corner—it is all front.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. POLAND and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN HAND PEEN . I live at Brick-kiln-row, Plumstead Common, and am in charge of the felloe stores of the carriage department at the Royal Arsenal—I did not know the prisoner till he was taken into custody—he was employed in the laboratory department at that time—on Thursday afternoon, 2d August, about a quarter to 5 o'clock, I saw him at the back of my stores—he was drawing the copper hooping from the vat, doubling it up and concealing it about his person, between the waistband of his trousers and his shirt—this (produced) is it; I saw it taken from him—he had got it straight down—I asked him what he was going to do with this copper; he told me he was going to take it to the fitter's shop—I told him it was decidedly wrong, and that he had better put it back again—he said it was all right—I begged him again to put it back, but he still persisted in taking it with him—I told him it was under Mr. Dean's charge, and belonged to the carriage department—he made no reply to that but walked on, and I said that if he persisted in taking it away I would follow him—he walked away at first—he took the direction down to the timber shed at the back of the saw-mill, and when he had got there he ran away from me through the wheel shop—I followed him and overtook him in the front of the saw-mills, and took him to Mr. Wren, one of the masters of the saw-mills—Mr. Wren asked me what was the matter—I told him, in the prisoner's presence, that the man had got something concealed about his person, and I desired the prisoner to pull it out—he drew from his person the copper now produced, and laid it on the table, and said, "There it is"—Mr. Wren asked him where he belonged to, and the prisoner said that he belonged to the carriage department under Mr. Ambrose—Mr. Wren sent me for Mr. Ambrose—we found out afterwards that the prisoner belonged to the laboratory.
Prisoner. I am guilty of having the twelve pounds in my possession, but I know nothing about the 100 lbs. A man asked me to go and get it, and I got it for him, I did not know it was wrong. It was a man with his shirt-sleeves up; I do not know his name.
Witness. I did not see any other man—I did not see anybody at the cask but the prisoner.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Did the prisoner say a word about this when he was before Mr. Wren? A. Not to my knowledge—the copper was put between his trousers and his shirt, so that it could not be seen unless I had seen him take it.
THOMAS BAYLEY . I am a carpenter employed in the carriage department of the Royal Arsenal—on Thursday, 2d August, I was passing by where the felloe stores are—I saw the prisoner there behind the cask concealing the copper between his waistcoat and trousers—I did not see him doing that, before my attention was called to him—Mr. Peen called my attention to him—Mr. Peen had not spoken to him then—I saw him put the copper between his waistcoat and the waistband of his trousers—after that I saw Mr. Peen speak to him—Mr. Peen told him he had better stop there, and the prisoner afterwards ran away.
COURT. Q. Did you see him run away? A. I did—Mr. Peen's back was turned at the time—I saw that—I did not see any other men passing where he was running, only the men that were employed there—he was in the carriage department then—there are a large number of persons employed about the place—when he was in the timber yard I lost sight of him, and then Mr. Peen went after him again and took him to Mr. Wren.
Prisoner. The first time that I made any attempt to run away, I ran to see if I could see the man that sent me after it.
Witness. He did not run towards the fitter's shop—he was in the carriage department—our fitter's shop is about 600 yards from that—I did not see anybody with his shirt-sleeves tucked up, or with an apron on.
WILLIAM WREN . I live at 21, Camden-terrace, Plumstead, and am assistant timber-master in the Royal Arsenal—on Thursday afternoon, 2d August, Mr. Peen came to me and brought the prisoner with him—I said, "What's the matter, John? "speaking to Peen—he said, in the prisoner's presence, "This man has concealed a quantity of copper about him"—I directly said to the prisoner "Where do you work, and who is your foreman?"—he told me that Mr. Ambrose was his foreman; that he worked in the carriage department—I requested Peen to ask Mr. Ambrose to step down; the, prisoner heard that—when Peen had left the office the prisoner requested leave to leave the office for a minute or two to go to the water closet—I allowed him to do so in charge of one of the workmen—I called Stephen Cowley; the prisoner went with me to call him—the prisoner did not come back that afternoon—I next saw him at the police-court, on the following day; Friday—I believe this to be the copper which I saw concealed about him—it has the mark of the broad arrow.
Prisoner. When you asked where I was employed I said I had been employed under Mr. Ambrose, but was now in the laboratory department
Witness. His answer was that Mr. Ambrose was his foreman, and that he worked in the carriage department—he has worked in the carriage department; I don't know how long—Mr. Ambrose told me that he had worked there—I do not know when he was in the laboratory department; I have not made any inquiries about that—I do not know whether there was any change in his wages when he was put in the laboratory department—this
copper was produced, ill my presence, on the afternoon of the Thursday when he came in with Peen—he said, when he put it down, "There it is"—I did not ask him about it—I thought that any questions I might wish to put to him, it would be best to put in the presence of his foreman, Mr. Ambrose.
WILLIAM DEAN . I am foreman of the stores at the Arsenal at Woolwich—I went on the morning of 3d August to the place where the cask was, containing the copper—I found that one of the casks there had been opened, and that some copper was gone from it—I was round there on the Tuesday evening before; the 31st July—the cask was then shut, and the tarpaulin was over it—I saw the cask itself—I did not lift the tarpaulin up.
COURT. Q. How do you know the cask was not open on the Tuesday? A. I don't quite know—the prisoner was formerly in the carriage department—he was discharged on 14th April, and then he went into the laboratory department—where he was at work was about a quarter of a mile from where the copper was taken—that copper is used in the carriage department; not in the laboratory department.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Had the prisoner any right whatever to be at the cask and take copper from it, whether it was open or closed? A. No—nobody has any right to touch the stores.
COURT. Q. Who would take the copper out of that cask if it was wanted? A. If I was going to issue a certain quantity, we should take the cask right away—a small quantity of copper is never sent for in that way—they don't demand less than 10 cwt.—they never want a little quantity—it is only used for foundry purposes—the value of this produced, is about 12s. 3d.—I cannot say what were the prisoner's wages in the carriage department—I believe 14s. a week—he is married.
Prisoner. I have a wife and five children.
Witness. I do not know that—I can't say how long he has been in the carriage department—there was a reduction of men in the carriage department on 14th April, and the prisoner had a fortnight's notice to leave, and then he joined again in the other department—if a man is known no inquiry is made about him before we take him in that way—this man must have been known to be honest.
JOHN BOVIS (Policeman, R 43). From information I received on 2d August, I went to a house, 3, William-street, Woolwich, about half-past 6 in the evening; that is not in the Arsenal—I found the prisoner at that house, sitting in a room—I said, "Is your name Saxby?"—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he worked in the gun factory—he said, "No, I work in the laboratory"—I was in my professional costume—the gun factory is a separate department from the carriage department—I said, "I believe you are the man I want; will you go to the Arsenal with me?"—he said, "Yes"—he was about to put on his coat and he said, "What's the charge?"—I said, "If you are the man I want, you are charged with having a quantity of copper in your possession belonging to the Government; also, escaping from a man that had charge of you"—he said, "You are mistaken; I am not the man"—I took him in custody, and took him to the station-house—this is the copper I received from Mr. Wren.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows: "I have nothing to say."
GUILTY of stealing the 12 lbs.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury on account of his family.—Judgment Respited.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
MR. M. J. O'CONNELL conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN ALLDHITT . I am a linendraper, carrying on business at Old Charlton in Kent—I have known the prisoner some two or three years—he has been in the habit of travelling round the neighbourhood—I have bought bonnet shapes from him—he came into my shop on 12th July, about 8 o'clock at night—he offered me some bonnet shapes for sale; I did not buy them, but gave him an order to supply me with other goods; at that time a boy named Brown was in the shop; nobody else—the prisoner remained in the shop some few minutes after I gave him the order—Brown came in for some ribbons; I stooped down behind the counter to get at them—I had some other conversation with the prisoner about the bonnet shapes, and a few minutes afterwards he left—he bad a bag with something in it—I could not ascertain what it was at the time—he had a few bonnet shapes with him; I think he had them out on the counter—he took them away in the bag; his bag was large enough to hold a feather bed—after he had left the shop about ten minutes I missed a piece of calico—it had been in the fitting of the shelf; I had placed it there about ten minutes before he came into the shop—I am sure nobody was in the shop at the time except the prisoner and Brown—I saw Brown two or three days afterwards and asked him some questions—on 3d July the prisoner came with the shapes I had ordered—in consequence of something that Brown had told me, I said to the prisoner, "The last time you were here I lost a bit of calico, and you took it; now if you took that from distress and were in want, or your family wanted a loaf of bread, I will forgive you"—he said, "No, I did not take it"—I said, "Confess the truth; I have a boy who saw you take it"—he said, "I did not take it"—I said, "I shall give you in charge and we will see whether you did or not"—when the policeman came he said, "Well, sooner than be locked up, I will say I took it"—I then gave him in custody.
Prisoner. Q. Was there not something of much greater value next to this calico? A. There was—the reason I did not see Brown before the Saturday was because he was a visitor from London—I knew where he came from, but I did not know where he was residing—he was not at the national schools—I said before the Magistrate that, as far as I could judge, there was from thirty to thirty-five yards of calico—I told you if you would apologize I would say no more about it—I wrote to the witness Brown to come up at your examination, but he did not get the letter in time.
MR. O'CONNELL. Q. Was he up at the police-court twice? A. Yes, he was examined—I got the boy Brown on the second day—the prisoner was remanded from the Friday till the Tuesday.
HENRY GUIVER BROWN . I am ten years old—my father is a cutler in the Strand—I live with him, but occasionally go to visit my aunt at Charlton—I was down there on 12th July—I went to Mr. Aldritt's'shop to get some ribbon for my aunt, about eight o'clock—I saw the prisoner in the shop talking to Mr. Aldritt—I saw Mr. Aldritt stoop down to get the ribbon, and the prisoner took a piece of calico off the shelf behind Mr. Aldritt and put it in a bag which he had with him—he talked to Mr. Aldritt after that about a minute or two, and then went out of the shop.
Prisoner. Q. Why did you not tell Mr. Aldritt I had taken the calico? A. I did not know you had stolen it—it was not in paper—Mr. Aldritt called me into the shop—he asked me whether I thought you had bought the calico—it was 8 o'clock in the evening; it was not gas-light—Mr. Aldritt was at the further end of the shop—the shelf was behind him—the calico was square, and doubled flat.
JOHN THOMAS FRANKLIN (Policeman, R 353). I was sent for to Mr. Aldritt's house, and found the prisoner there—the prosecutor told me that he suspected him of stealing a piece of calico on 12th July—the prisoner said Mr. Aldritt wanted him to apologize, and he said he would rather say he had taken the calico than be locked up—he refused his address, and I found out that he had been called by the name of Bentley.
Prisoner's Defence. What I took and placed in my bag was my own property. It consisted of shapes and a parcel. The witness is mistaken as to what I put in the bag. I talked to the prosecutor ten minutes after I put the things in my bag. I then went to a public house just opposite to have some refreshment; I afterwards went to another, and then to the railway-station, and had to wait a quarter of an hour for the train, therefore the prosecutor had ample opportunity to find me if he had chosen. There were two females in the shop while I was there; the prosecutor says there was not.
GUILTY — Confined Four Months.
Before Mr. Justice William.
MESSRS. CLERK and BEASLEY conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BEVAN . I am a carman, and reside at 16, Manor-place, Walworth—I am the landlord of the house—I occupy the ground floor—the house consists of a first and second floor—the first floor is immediately above my rooms—on 31st July last Mr. Beard occupied the first floor—that consists of a front and a back room—there was Mr. Beard, his wife, and one son—the floor above that was occupied by Mr. Youngman—I believe his name to be John—he is the father of the prisoner—his family consisted of his wife and two little boys—the second floor consisted of two rooms, a front and a back one—I had known at that time that the prisoner had been there for a few days; for a holiday, I understood—I had seen him backwards and forwards before 31st July—I believed him to be sleeping there—I remember the morning of 31st July—I was disturbed about ten minutes to 6, or something like that—I was then in bed, in the lower back room on the ground floor—I was disturbed by hearing a lumbering, as I supposed, on the top of the house; a lumbering, or heavy fell on the floor; a lumbering noise, as if something had fallen on the floor—the noise proceeded from the top of the house, as I supposed at the time, the second floor—as soon as I heard the noise I immediately jumped out of bed to hear and see what was amiss, and, before I could get to the door, Mr. Beard, who has the first floor, tapped at the door and said, "For God's sake come up stairs, here is murder;" that was before I had got out of my room—I immediately proceeded up stairs to
see what was amiss—I went on to the top landing, the landing of the seoond floor, and I turned my head and saw the little boy—there is a staircase that ends with a landing, and a door on each side of the landing—a door opens on to the landing from each room; the doors front each other on the landing—I saw the little boy lying dead on the top floor—I did not take very particular notice of him—I believe him to be the eldest boy—I did not see any one else about—I came down stairs and dressed as quickly as I could, to get assistance—as I was about to proceed for the officer the prisoner was standing on the first staircase—that was the first time I saw him that morning—it was directly I came down stairs and dressed; after I had dressed—I was then about to proceed for the officers—I should think not two minutes had been occupied by my dressing—on coming out of my room dressed I saw the prisoner standing three parts of the way on the first staircase; the staircase leading from the ground floor to the first floor—he was standing at that time looking downwards; looking down stairs—that staircase does not face the front door—the stairs, face the passage which leads to the door—at the bot-tom of the stairs there is a long passage, quite through the house, and the staircase is in the middle of the passage—he had got nothing on then, only his shirt—he told me his mother had done all this.
COURT. Q. What were the words he used, as near as you can say? A. He said, "My mother has done all this; she has murdered my two brothers and my sweetheart, and I, in self-defence, believe I have murdered her."
MR. BEASLEY. Q. Was that all he said at the time? A. Yes—I then went for the police—I believe I heard the prisoner's father go out that morning about half-past five.
COURT. Q. You heard somebody go out? A. Yes; and believe it was he.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Had the Youngmans lived long in your house? A. On 24th March they came to lodge with me—I am not much at home in the day-time—I go out in the morning and come back in the evening, calling in sometimes in the course of the day—I do not know but what Youngman and his wife lived on pretty tolerable good terms—perhaps occasionally I heard them have a word or two, but not enough for me to interfere.
COURT. Q. They had a word or two occasionally, but nothing particular? A. Nothing particular.
MR. BEST. Q. Did they seem to be pretty well off in the money way? A. Well, the man always paid me his rent, and so far I had nothing more to do with him; he paid me regularly 4s. a week—I was awoke by a lumbering noise—the noise was like a heavy fall on the floor, as if something heavy had fallen—I do not know how far the distance is from the room where I was sleeping to the landing where I saw the body of the boy; I never measured it—I cannot tell you—the floor of the second floor was not so high as this Court—I lived on the ground floor—I never measured the distance between the ground floor and this third floor where these people were living—it is about three parts of the height of this Court, I should say—when I went up to the landing the first time I saw no live person there; I did not go up on to the top of the landing, as soon as I saw the boy's body I turned down stairs—I saw the prisoner afterwards, not at that time, some portion of the way down stairs—I cannot say much as to his being collected and composed at the time—I should not think he was very collected at that time; I did not stop long enough to make any particular observation of the man.
COURT. Q. Is it made to a scale? A. It is; I have not measured any heights, but I should say that from the floor of the ground floor to the floor of the second floor was about from twenty to twenty-one feet.
MR. CLERK. Q. I see by the plan there is a door to each room opening on to the landing? A. Opening inwards to the rooms from the landing—I am speaking of the second floor—the doors are exactly opposite each other—the two doors, when closed, are 5ft. 10 1/2 in. from one another, across the landing—from that landing of 5ft. 10 1/2 in. there is a narrow landing 2ft. 6in. wide—that goes toward the head of the stairs—that goes from the landing that is between the two doors towards the head of the stairs—2ft. 6in. is the width of each stair.
SUSANNAH BEARD . I am the wife of Philip Beard—I live with my husband at 16 Manor-place—we occupy the first floor—I have one little boy about 11 years old—I occupy the back room as a sleeping-room—the little boy slept in the same room—on the morning of Tuesday, 31st July, I should think it was nearly 6 o'clock when I awoke—a noise above my head awoke me—it was a sort of scuffling on the boards—I thought it was the children playing when I first awoke—I awoke my husband, thinking it was late—I heard a sort of lumbering as if something fell on to the boards after that; that was not till after I awoke my husband—I could not say what it sounded like, falling—it appeared to be as if something heavy had fallen on the boards—I thought it was in the bed-room; it seemed over my head—I could not say whether what I heard fall fell on the landing or in the room—my husband went to the bed-room door and went up the stairs—he then called out the "Murder!" and came down—he afterwards went up again with Mr. Bevan, the landlord—after he came down the second time I went to the door of our room and saw the prisoner on the stairs between the first and second floors—he either said, "Mr. Beard" or, "Mrs. Beard, my mother has done all this, she has murdered my sweetheart and my two little brothers, and, in seltdefence, I believe I have murdered her"—while my husband was dressing the prisoner called out from the stairs, "Mr. Beard, for God's sake fetch a surgeon, I believe there are some alive now"—when my husband was dressed he left the house—he and I went down stairs into the lower parlour—I locked my bed-room door, and locked my child in, and we went down below to the landlord's room, and my husband directly went for a doctor—I did not see the body of the young woman at all—I had seen a young woman come to the house on the previous day, Monday, 30th July; I think it was pretty well 11 o'clock in the morning when she came—she came with the prisoner—I saw them again about 7 in the evening, going out, as I thought for a walk; they went as if they were going to the Walworth-road—I afterwards saw them return about 10 o'clock; they returned together, by themselves—I saw them come down stairs again about five minutes afterwards, that is I saw them outside the door as if they had come down stairs—I saw them come into the house again about a quarter of an hour afterwards; that would be about a quarter past 10.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen this young man before that day? A. Oh, yes; he had been staying at the house for a short time previously—he and the young woman seemed very friendly when they were at the door together at 10 o'clock—they seemed on affectionate terms with each other—when the prisoner addressed me on the stairs, and said, "This is my mother's doing," he seemed very much excited—on other occasions he was generally calm and quiet in his manner.
PHILIP WILLIAM BEARD . I am a carpenter and joiner—I and my wife occupy the first floor at 16 Manor-place—I remember the prisoner coming to the house, but I cannot say exactly what time he came—I had seen him there some days before 31st July—I had seen him in the house—I remember Sunday the 29th—I had some conversation with the prisoner that day in the yard—a little conversation passed on trivial affairs, and he told me that he had been a valet and footman, but that he had left that, and was going into the farming business—he did not say why he had left it—I did not see the young woman on the Monday night—on the Tuesday morning I was awoke by my wife early; it was about 5 minutes before 6, or something like that—after she had awoke me I heard a sort of rumbling noise on the stairs, it appeared to be on the landing over me, it was like children running about, or something like that, I had heard the noise frequently before—I was on my landing—it seemed to come from the top floor above me—when I came out of my room I heard a slight scream, when I got to the foot of the stain—I went up stairs—the first thing I saw was a spot of blood on the stairs, on the fourth stair from the top, I did not notice any on any other—I went a little higher, and the first thing I saw was the little boy lying on the landing—I thought he was dead, he had his throat cut, and was lying on his back with his head towards the stairs—I then went a little higher and there saw the female lying on the landing—I did not then know who she was—I found afterwards it was Mary Streeter—she was also lying dead, a little beyond the dead body of the boy—I did not observe any other body at that time—I was alarmed, and went down, and called up Mr. Bevan, the landlord—I then went up again with him, behind him; there was no one else with us; the inspector had not come at that time—when I had called the landlord I went up stairs and began to drees—I did not go up with him then, I went up to my own bed-room, I did not go up to the second floor then, not till the inspector came—he did not come till Mr. Bevan went for him—I did not go up any more till after the police had been—I went for a surgeon—I saw a policeman at the top of Manor-place, and I sent him down—I did not see anything more of the prisoner—he called me out of my bed-room after I had began to dress, he was then on the stain—he called me and said, "Mr. Beard, my mother has done it all, she has murdered my two little brothers and my sweetheart, and, in self-defence, I believe I have murdered her"—that was all he said then—I then went into my bed-room again, and finished dressing and he begged of me to go for a surgeon.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he say to you, "For God's sake go to a surgeon's, I think there is some of them alive now?" A. Yes—I was about five minutes in my room dressing myself—I dressed as speedily as I possibly could—I do not know whether my wife was present at this conversation on the stain—she was present in one instance, I believe, I did not see her—I have not known the prisoner for any time—I only just saw him backwards and forwards in the house—I never had any particular conversation with him—I was not at home most of the day—I was always out at work from 6 in the morning till 8 or 9 at night—I had no opportunity of observing how Mr. Youngman and his wife lived towards each other.
MR. CLERK. Q. Your wife used to be at home? A. Yes.
JOHN YOUNGMAN . I am the father of the prisoner—I resided on the second-floor of the house, 16, Manor-place, Wai worth—I can't say exactly how long I had been there—my wife, Elizabeth Youngman, also lived there, and my two sons, Thomas Neale Youngman, and Charles Youngman—Thomas was eleven years of age, and Charles seven—in the month of July
the prisoner came to live with me—he had before that been at service at Dr. Duncan's; that was the last place he had lived at—he was footman there—I do not recollect on what, day it was that he came to my lodgings, but I should suppose it was about a fortnight before the 31st July—he used to sleep in the back room, the same room that I slept in—Thomas, the eldest of the two boys, slept with him in the same bed—I slept on a bed made up on the shop-board—I am a tailor, but I work away from home along with a son who lives in the neighbourhood—my wife slept in the front room and the boy Charles with her—I am frequently away from home at my work, during the day; mostly all day—I go home to dinner very frequently; not at all times—I was away from morning till night, except sometimes when I went home to dinner—on Monday, 30th July, I came home about a quarter or twenty minutes after 10 at night, as near as I can bring it to mind—I did not see the young woman, Mary Streeter, at all that night—I saw my wife before I went to bed—the prisoner went, to bed that night as usual, in the room—I should think it wanted about twenty minutes to 11, at that time—I told him when he was ready I would put the light out, and he said he was all ready, and I put the light out and went to bed directly, and he at the same time—my boy, Thomas, was in bed when I got into bed; he was in the bed with the prisoner—I awoke in the morning, I consider, somewhere about 4 o'clock; I did not know the time because I had not a clock in my room; I imagine that was the time by the appearance of the morning—at that time I saw the prisoner at the foot of his bed—it was daylight; just the break of day—he was in the act of getting into bed—I supposed he had been to look at the clock—I believe the door of the room was not closed; it generally stood open, but I did not take that notice—I usually slept with the door about an inch open—I took no notice of it then—the door of the front room was always closed at night, to the best of my knowledge—I fell asleep again—I got up at 5 o'clock that morning—it was about twenty minutes after 5 when I left my room—I expected that the clock went 6, but in lien of that it was 5 I found when I got out—the prisoner and Thomas were in bed at that time—I went to my son John's to work—I did not go into the front room before I left; the door of that room was closed—I was afterwards fetched from my son's—I should think it was about twenty minutes after 6—I came back to the house—I saw the body of the young woman, Mary Streeter—she was then dead—I had seen her before, three or four times, I believe—the first time I saw her I dare say might have been two years previous—she had not been in the habit of coming to our house then—I saw her two or three times since—I saw her once or twice in July; that was at Manor-place—I do not think I saw her more than once in Manor-place—I saw her once at my son John's, along with William, and once at Manorplace with him—the prisoner had never said anything to me about his intended marriage—I understood it was to be the case, but he never acquainted me with it—a knife was shown to me on the morning of 31st July, by Lack the constable—this (produced) is itz—I had seen that knife before that day—I saw it in my son John's shop—it was in the prisoner's possession—it was then quite whole, to the best of my knowledge; not broken as it is now—the prisoner was showing it to a man who was working at my son John's, and the man said it was not a fit knife to carry—the prisoner said anybody had a right to carry such a knife, if they thought proper, for their own protection—I should think this was about nine days or a fortnight before 31st July—I never saw him use the knife for any purpose—I never
saw him show it at home to my wife; not to my recollection—as soon as I got back to the house on the morning in question, I called out, "Where is William?" he was then brought down in to the passage by the police; he was in custody—he said, "This is all mother's doings, father"—that was all he said—to the best of my knowledge the prisoner was not possessed of any property at this time; he had no money, except what he had from service—I believe he had been in Dr. Duncan's service for half a year—he was out of employment for some time before he went there—I cannot say for how long—it was as long as a year—I learnt so from him.
Q. Had he ever said anything to you about insuring the life of the young woman? A. I had heard it talked of; I don't think he ever said anything about it to me—I am not certain he did not; I have heard it repeated and talked of at different times—I heard it talked about at my son John's.
COURT. Q. You say he never mentioned it to you; but did you hear him mention that he was about insuring the life? A. Oh, yes; at different times—I heard him mention it at my son John's.
MR. CLERK. Q. Do you know the prisoner's handwriting? A. I think I should know it, but I am not sure; I am a very little writer myself—I saw the dead body of my wife and of my son Thomas, at the same time I saw the dead body of the young woman—I also saw the dead body of my youngest boy, Charles; I saw him last.
Cross-examined. Q. You say this insurance was talked about at your son John's; was that in the presence of several persons? A. Yes, openly—I should think that was something like nine days, or a fortnight, or a week before 31st July, and perhaps a day or two before, but I cannot bring it to mind—my wife's maiden name was Golden—I knew her mother quite well—she was a lunatic at the latter part of her life—she died in Peckham Asylum—a brother of my own also died'a lunatic in Norwich Thorpe Asylum—none of my children have died in that way—my father, I believe, died tolerably sensible, but he had been in an asylum two or three times—I work for my son as a journeyman and receive journeyman's wages—I receive a pound a week, on an average; I am sometimes short of work—I was not short at this time; I had plenty doing just then—my wife and I lived upon tolerably good terms; we used to have more words about the children than anything else; I thought that she talked to them a good deal more than there was any occasion for—we quarrelled occasionally about the children—I thought she interfered with them too much—she used to correct them more than I thought she had any occasion for—she did not correct them particularly severely, but she corrected Thomas more than I thought she ought, because I thought Charles was quite as much or more in fault than Thomas—my wife and I did not sleep together at all times—we had not slept together for the last week previous to William coming to the house—that was because I wished to get to bed always when I got home of a night; and not only that, my wife was troubled with an inward complaint—she had a cancer in the womb; that was the reason why we did not sleep together—I sometimes took my breakfast at my son John's—I sometimes took my supper at home, not often—I supped at my son's, and sometimes I had no supper at all—I always took my tea at my son's when I was there—I did not go to any place of entertainment to spend my evenings, or to any public-house; and had not done so for a long time—I saw this knife when I was at my son John's house—I do not remember the prisoner saying that it was a good sort of knife for eating meals with—I cannot say that I ever heard him say that—I have seen him take his meals
in the house, but I never saw him use that knife at all—I did not sup in the house the night before 31st July—the front room was used for supper and meals; that was the room in which the family lived in the daytime—the point of this knife is broken off and the guard is also broken.
MR. CLERK. Q. When was it that your wife's mother died? A. 15 years ago, in October—I never visited her in the asylum but once—I can't say whether she was there 12 mouths or 2 years—I think she was between sixty and seventy when she died—my wife had never been confined in any asylnm—I cannot say that I ever perceived any appearance of an unsound mind in her during our marriage—I never did—she was rather more kind to Charles than to Thomas—that has been a cause of difference, a cause of words between us—I have frequently told her that Charles was most in fault.
JOHN VARNEY (Policeman, P 333). I remember Beard speaking to me on the morning of 31st July—I went by myself to 16, Manor-place, Walworth, about 6 o'clock—I went into the house and went up stairs on to the second floor landing—when I went up there I saw three dead bodies on the landing; the first was a boy about 10 or 11 years old; the next was a female lying on her face; and another female a little to the left of her—the prisoner came to the door; he said, "Oh! policeman, here is a sight; what shall I do?"—he made a step to come towards me on the landing—he was standing at the back room door when he said that—he was stepping out on to the landing, and I said," Go back into the room and put on your clothes"—he was not dressed; he was in his night-shirt; I noticed the right sleeve of the shirt was torn, and the wristband was hanging on his hand—I noticed that when he was standing at the door—the wristband appeared to hang on the back of his hand—the inspector arrived just then—I then left the prisoner with him and went into the front room—the prisoner did not say anything to me before the inspector came, further than what I have stated; he said his mother had done all this—he said that at the time that he said "Here is a sight; what shall I do?" he said, "My mother has done all this;" and when in the back room he said, "I struck my mother, but it was in self-defence, and would not you have done the same? that is law."
Crosi-examined. Q. You told him to go into his room and dress himself? A. Yes—at that time he was only in his shirt—I am sure I saw the wristband hanging down—after my coming into the front room he took off his shirt to put another one on, and at that time I missed the wristband of it; I could not find it anywhere—I am quite sure it was on when I saw him first—I have the shirt here.
JAMES DANN (Police Inspector, P). Shortly before 6 o'clock on the morning of 31st July I heard of what had taken place at Manor-place—I went to the house accompanied by a constable of the name of Lack—I went up the stall's—I saw the prisoner standing on the landing on the second floor—we were both on the landing—he said, "This is my mother's doing; she came to the bedside where my brother and I were sleeping; killed him, and made a stab at me, and I in my own defence wrenched the knife from her hand and killed her, if she is dead"—upon that, the constable Lack, pointing to the body of the young woman, said, "Was this young woman lying here when you killed your mother?"—the prisoner hesitated a little and then said, "I don't know"—at that time there were three bodies on the landing—the boy, Thomas Neale Youngman, was lying on his back—his head was close to the edge of the top stair—his feet were in a direction away from the stairs; towards the wall of the house; the opposite wall—he was in his night-shirt—the right leg was a little drawn up—there was a great deal of blood where the body of the
boy was lying—I then observed the position of the young woman, Mary Streeter—she was lying on the landing with her head inside the back room door—I should say that her head was about a foot or thirteen inches inside the doorway—her feet were towards the front room door—the body wag lying on the right side—she was in her night-dress—there was nothing on her feet; no slippers—there was a great deal of blood near where her head was lying—the blood had flowed from near her head under the door of the back room and under the foot of the bed in the back room; the Stream was about four feet six or seven inches in length—the breadth at the commencement was about fifteen inches, at the termination about six or seven—I then observed the body of the elder woman, Elizabeth Youngman—she was lying on the landing with her face downwards; on her stomach—her face was close to the thighs of the young woman; resting on the floor—the right shoulder of the elder woman rested on the legs of the young woman—the feet of Mrs. Youngman were inside the front room door—she was also in her night-dress; without slippers, or steckings, or anything on her feet—I observed a great deal of blood where she was lying—most of it was close to her head and throat; it had spread some distance; several inches away from her—there was a pool of blood where she was lying; where her bead was—I went into the front room and there saw the body of the youngest child—it was on a bed in the front room, outside the bed-clothes, quite dead—he was in his nightdress—he was lying move on the right side than any other position—the feet were towards the head of the bed; and the head towards the foot—there was a great deal of blood on the bed—it had soaked through the counterpane, blanket, and sheet; and into the bed—the blood was just underneath where the child was lying; underneath the child's neck and shoulders—I observed the floor of that room—there was not any pool of blood anywhere on the floor in that room—I saw marks of blood in the room—some had been trodden into the room with a naked foot—the footmark was sufficiently distinct for me to be able to speak of its size—it appeared to be the foot of a grown-up person—I saw two footmarks of blood; both in the same direction—I mean that I saw two footsteps which had imprints of blood, which had left the marks of blood, both going in the same direction, from the door towards the bed where the child was lying—there was no smear of blood along the floor of that room—there was no other blood in the bed except that which I have mentioned as being underneath the head and shoulders of the child, and that which had soaked through the clothes—I examined the bed in the back room—there was an appearance of blood about that bed—there wen three or four drops of blood on the sheet, and some smears of blood on the sheet—it appeared to have been wiped off a person's hands—there was no pool of blood about that bed—there was some blood that had run from the door under the foot of the bed, and there was some blood that bad been trampled about the floor of the room; but no pool of blood in any part—when I first came to the house the prisoner was not dressed; he was in his night-shirt—his bands and feet were bloody; his night-shirt was very much stained with blood also—I did not see any wound about any part of his person—I did not examine him particularly, but I stripped him, and I did not see any wound—I saw the weapon after it was found—the prisoner was taken into custody—I did not see any cut on him when he was taken into custody; he did not complain of any—on the evening of the same day I went down to Wadhurst, to the residence of Mr. Streeter the father of the deceased—I received from Mr. Streeter a number of letters, which I have here—I have fifteen in all—six of
these letters were read before the Magistrate—these (produced) are the six given in evidence, and these (produced) are the nine—they are all here—on my return to town I saw a box at the police-station, in the possession of Superintendent Payne—I opened that box with a key which I found in the prisoner's possession—I there found the paper which I now produce—it is a policy of assurance—I have a piece of the guard of the knife which has been produced—the prisoners brother John gave it to me.
Cross-examined. Q. You have told us there were two footmarks leading into the front room? A. Two—the first I should say was about two feet inside the door; that is, as near as I can remember—the second was about two feet six inches further on; towards the bed—one was the right, and the other was the left foot—there were no more footsteps round the bed—there was too much blood just at the landing outside between the two doors, to trace any footmark there—when the prisoner had the conversation with Lack, myself, Lack, and Varney were present—when the question was put to him he was a little confused—he was not so all through—he was very little excited; not at all—he appeared confused when Lack put the question—he hesitated, as I have said—he was not confused during any other part of the time—he appeared to be quite collected.
DAVID LACK (Policeman, P 132). On the morning of 31st July I went with Mr. Dann to 16, Manor-place, Walworth, a few minutes before 6—I saw three bodies lying on the second landing—I found this knife—it was lying just between the two females; it was open as it is now, with the point and a piece of the guard broken off, and smeared with blood just the same as it is now—I picked it up—I saw the prisoner at this time—he spoke to me first—he pulled his right shirt-sleeve up and said, "Here is a job; my mother has done all this"—I said, "Where is your mother?" he pointed down to the elder female and said, "There she lies; I struck her in my own defence"—I said, "Was this young female lying here when you struck your mother?"—he hesitated for a moment and then said, "I do not know."
EDMUND PAYNE . I am superintendent of the P division of police—I obtained the box which was opened by inspector Dann at the house, 16, Manor-place—I found it in the back room on the top floor—I directed its removal to my office and went with it—when the prisoner was brought to the police-station on the morning of 31st July, I spoke to him about the knife which has been produced here—I said, "Do you know anything about that knife?"—Lack the constable had just shown the knife to me; I think that was in the presence of the prisoner—the prisoner's reply was, "It is my knife; it is what I had to cut my bread and cheese with"—I think I asked how long he had had it, and he said, "A few days," or "about a fortnight"—I did not expect at that time to be called as a witness, and I do not recollect distinctly whether it was in reply to me or of his own accord, but he said he had had it in his possession a few days or nearly a fortnight—I believe he used both expressions; first, "a few days," and I believe he afterwards said, "Nearly a fortnight."
JOHN VARNEY (re-examined). When I saw the prisoner on that morning at the house in Manor-place, I asked him where the young woman slept the previous night, and he said, "In the front room"—he said she had slept with his mother and his little brother, and the elder boy slept with himself in the back room
to the house 16, Manor-place—that was, I should think, about 6 o'clock—Beard, the carpenter, the man who lives in the second floor, came to me—I went to the house immediately—I there found the bodies of four persons, who were dead—three were on the landing and the body of the little boy was on the bed in the front room—the bodies were all quite warm; as warm as if they had been alive; from animal heat—I examined the body of the young woman, Mary Wells Streeter, which was lying on the landing—I found a stab over her left breast which penetrated the cavity of the chest—there was also a wound on the throat; it was literally cut from ear to ear—that had been done with a very sharp and very strong instrument—the carotid artery and jugular vein on each side were divided; making a clean sweep through everything, down to the cervical vertebrae or bones of the neck—the wound had severed the windpipe and the gullet—such a wound would, I think, have caused instantaneous death; the cutting through the windpipe and the gullet would prevent a person from calling out; it would be quite impossible for a person to call out with such a wound—I think it must have required a strong arm to have inflicted that wound.
COURT. Q. That must, of course, depend upon the instrument? A. It would depend upon the instrument.
MR. CLERK. Q. What sort of person was the deceased? A. A young woman in good animal condition, I think—in no way emaciated, but healthy—she was anything but weak; I think she was healthy and strong—I then examined the body of the elder woman; she had three stabs altogether, two over the left shoulder-blade, one over the sternum or breast-bone, and a deep cut or stab behind the left side of the neck, which divided the carotid artery and jugular vein on the left side down to the cervical vertebra—that wound would have caused almost immediate death, perhaps not so instantaneous as with the other, who had her throat cut—I should not think it possible that the wounds either upon the young woman or the elder woman could have been inflicted by themselves, particularly upon the elder woman; it would be an impossibility—the elder woman seemed to be a person in tolerably good health, not particularly bulky or muscular, but tolerably healthy, I thought—she was not particularly strong certainly, rather inclined to be stout than thin—I did not discover any injury about the hands of either of the women—I then examined the body of the younger boy, Charles, who was lying on the bed in the front room—I discovered one wound over the chest-bone, and two small incised cuts on the left upper arm, and there was one deep plunging cut or stab through the back of the neck, which divided the bones of the neck and cut right through the spinal cord—that wpund would have caused immediate death—a part of the gullet and windpipe was likewise wounded in the sweep of the knife; that would have quite prevented the child from crying out—I then examined the body of the elder boy, which was lying on the stairs; he had two cuts, one on the right angle of the lower lip, and one cut all round the throat, merely dividing the cutis, not the skin positively, but the small enveloping membrane—there were six stabs altogether, one on the right side of the neck and half way between the ear and the right shoulder, one over the left breast, another over the left breast about an inch and a half below the former, and more to the left side, and three stabs on the left side over the ribs—the three first fingers of the right hand at the extremities were cut through to the bone; the third finger of the left hand was likewise cut at its extremity quite into the bone—those were all the wounds—the one that entered the chest was the cause of death—there wore two wounds on the chest; both were fatal wounds; one
entered the pericardium, the enveloping membrane of the heart, that would be necessarily fatal, the other penetrated the lungs—both wounds entered the lungs, the top as well as the bottom plunge, and both would be fatal—if the child had grasped a sharp instrument, the hands would have presented exactly the appearance that I discovered, if the weapon had been drawn through the hands—I see the knife that has been produced; the marks I saw were just such as I should have expected to find from such an instrument—all the wounds upon all the four bodies were inflicted with a sharp instrument; it must have been a very sharp, powerful instrument—I have seen this knife before; the point of it is broken—I apprehend that it was originally a sharp pointed instrument; such an instrument as that, if the point had been sharp, might have inflicted all the wounds I saw upon all the bodies—there was no mark upon any of the bodies of a struggle having taken place during life, except upon that of the child that was lying near the stairs; his were the only hands that were wounded.
Cross-examined, Q. If I understand you rightly the mother had one wound in the chest? A. Yes—if that wound had been inflicted first I think she would possibly have screamed; I think it is more than probable she would—she had four wounds—I think the mischief that was product on the boy's hand was from an attempt in struggling to relieve himself from some injury that was being inflicted upon him; the cuts presented the appearance as if they were inflicted when struggling with some person, putting his hands up to prevent his throat being cut—if those wounds on the boy had been inflicted with great rapidity he would have died almost immediately—the two in the chest would have caused nearly instant death—I think he might have had time to scream out; death would not have followed so rapidly as that; there would have been some moments between the infliction of the wound and death—I have had very little experience in cases of cancer of the womb—I have never known it to create delirium; it produces a great deal of emaciation if it is of long continuance—it is an extremely painful disease—I should not think the pain would affect the brain; it might occasionally, but not as a general rule—it is not taken as a symptom or consequence of disease of the womb—supposing that Mrs. Youngman had been in a state of delirium I think she was strong enough to have inflicted these blows.
MR. CLERK. Q. Had there been an attempt to cut the throat of the boy that was lying on the stairs? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. That was the wound on the throat you have described? A. Yes, the superficial cut—that led me to suppose that there had been an attempt to cut the throat; the mark was very defined all round the throat—I did not distinguish much difference as to size and bulk between Mrs. Youngman and Mary Streeter; the elder woman was the fatter of the two I think—there was no appearance whatever of any struggle on the part of Mary Streeter.
MARY ANN WOOTTON . I am in the service of Dr. Duncan, of Henriettastreet, Covent-garden—I know the prisoner; he was there a week before me—he left on 16th July last—he had been in Dr. Duncan's service three months, I believe; during that time I have seen him writing frequently—he used to write letters and poetry—the date of the letter I am looking at is the 21st June; I believe it is the prisoner's handwriting—this one of 18th Juue is his writing, and this of the 21st—I believe this letter of 13th July is in his handwriting; also these two on 16th, and this one of the 19th—to the best of my belief this one without a date is in his haudwriting—this letter of 21st is his, and also the one of the 28th.
JAMES ANDREW DUNCAN . I am a physician, residing at Henrietta-street, Covent-garden—the prisoner was in my service as a footman; he came to me on 18th April last, and quitted on 16 th July—I was in the habit of seeing him frequently; it was the greater part of his duty to wait on me.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you had any experience in cases of cancer? A. Yes: cancer in the womb is a most painful disease; it generally makes a patient very irritable—I should not set down delirium as one of its symptoms; it may come up as an accidental symptom—if there has been mania in a family and a disease is acting upon a person, it would be more likely to bring it on—I know a mania, described as homicidal mania, especially among women—one of the great features of that mania, is, that persons afflicted by it, most frequently attack those to whom they have the greatest affection—it generally occurs after confinement, where the mother, although she has the greatest affection for her child, cannot resist destroying it—I have read Dr. Taylor's work on homicidal mania—I agree with him when he says that individuals are liable to be seized by a sudden impulse, when they will destroy persons to whom they are most strongly attached; but it is impossible to define what madness is; that is to say a person may have reason and know the wickedness of what he is going to commit, but yet be unable to resist the animal part of the functions, of the brain.
MR. CLERE. Q. Does cancer in the womb, where it exists, produce emaciation of the body? A. Yes; that is how the patient dies, from being completely worn out.
COURT. Q. Supposing a person not to be emaciated, does that indicate anything with respect to the state of the disease? A. That would show it was merely beginning, not advanced; that the disease had made but little progress—it might or it might not be attended with pain, then it would not necessarily follow the patient would be made more irritable—in my judgment if the disease had not got so far as to emaciate the patient, I don't think the pain would be such as to bring on delirium—the patient might, possibly have taken opium as a remedy for it, which would perhaps cause it.
EDWARD SPICE . I keep the Green Dragon public-house, Bermondsey-street, in the Borough—I knew the deceased Mary Streeter—on Monday, 23d July last, she came to my house on a visit; she came with the prisoner—she came in the afternoon and stayed there all night—on the next day, the 20th, the prisoner came, as near as I can recollect, about half-past 6 in the morning—Mary Streeter stayed four days at my house on a visit—she was an old friend of mine; I and her father Were brought up together—after partaking of breakfast on that morning, they went away together and returned again about 9 o'clock in the evening—he came down at half-past 5 the next morning—it rained on that day, and they stopped till 9 o'clock—on Thursday morning I called her out at 5 o'clock, and the prisoner came in about five minutes past 5—I had some conversation with him about the girl—I spoke to her first in the tap-room—I saw what I did not like in the man, and said to her in his presence, "Mary, I would sooner see you take a rope and hang yourself in the skittle ground, than marry a man like that"—I said to the prisoner, "What means have you got to support my girl? "I called her my girl—he said, "I am independent"—I said, "What is your independency, was it left by a legacy? have you got anything to show me, any paper?"—his reply was, "In houses"—I then asked him if they were in the country or London? "Various places in London—he said—I said, "Well, you must be a rich man," and said to deceased, "Now, Mary, take
my advice, give him a total denial, have no more to do with him; go and seat yourself in my bar parlour, and I will take you home safe to your father"—the prisoner made no remark on that—he said he intended to take her either to Hastings or Brighton; I think it was Hastings he said.
Cross-examined. Q. He did not say to reside there? A. He said he was going to take lodgings there to keep her independent—I said, You must have a good income to support a young woman like this"—he said, he was a retired tailor—I did not know anything about his being a valet.
SAMUEL WELLS STREETER . I am a farmer in Essex—the deceased young woman was my daughter—the prisoner came to my house on Sunday, 8th July last, and stayed there one night; I had never seen him before—my daughter had never mentioned to me that he was paying his addresses to her—the prisoner had not mentioned it to me—when Inspector Dann came down to my house I gave him some letters that were locked up in my daughter's writing-desk.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe you had the misfortune to lose another of your daughters some time before? A. Yes; in May last—she was not married, she died of consumption—this girl had not been subject to any disease of the chest or anything of that kind.
THOMAS TANNER . I am clerk in the office of the Argus Insurance Company—on 19th July last I saw the prisoner at that office (he had had a form previously)—he brought a form of application with him; I have it here (produced)—this is one of the forms issued by our office; the name of William Godfrey Youngman was signed in my presence by the prisoner—he wrote the answer to question No. 18, it is "William Godfrey Youngman, 16, Manor Place, Newington, London, retired from the business of a tailor"—that is written opposite the question "Name and place of residence"—before he signed it I asked him what he was—he said he was no trade—he came again on the following day, the 24th, accompanied by a young woman—she was examined by the medical officer, and a policy on her life was prepared—that is the policy (produced)—there is no attesting witness; that is the policy that was effected on that day—the premium was paid on 25th, 10s. 1d. for three months—the premiums are according to the wish of the parties; if they wish they can pay quarterly or half-yearly—in this case the prisoner expressed a wish to pay quarterly—I gave a receipt for the premium; I have it here, this is the first receipt—I believe the young woman paid the money.
(The following letters from the prisoner to the deceased were read; the first was dated 18th June, from Henrietta-street, Covent-garden; it contained some allusions to his long silence, and expressed a desire to renew his former intimacy with the deceased; the second was dated 21st June, acknowledging a reply to his first letter, and expressing a wish to see her when she came to town.)
"8, Henrietta Street, Covent Garden, July 13th, 1860.
"My dearest Mary.—This comes with my kindest love to you, trusting you are well and happy; myself I am pretty well in health. Now, come to London, dear girl, on Monday next, the 23d, and stay till Mrs. Walker leaves her situation, then go back home again and come up again on Friday morning, 10th August, and I will come on 10th Augnst to meet you, and shall stay at the lodgings I shall take for you and myself. I shall engage furnished lodgings for a week only, when I shall be able to settle all things and go down to your father and stay with him a day or two. You can lodge somewhere on the Friday you come up, and I, at our lodgings, so be ready for Saturday morning, when we will be married at St. Martin's, Charing Cross, on Saturday, August 11th next; I have published the banns of our marriage,
last Wednesday, and it will be asked in church on Sunday next, and Sunday, 29th, for the third time. I gave warning to leave on Wednesday hist, 11th, can leave on 10th ef next mouth having a day's wages less; now you will have quite money enough, my dear, till after we are married, when I shall have plenty, but not till then; but you need only wear your black clothes, my dear girl, at our wedding. I shall only wear black things and have no white gloves at all dearest; our coachman will stand as father for you, and I shall not require a bridesmaid unless you like, if so, our housemaid will come if she can, and we will go after we are married to Kew Gardens or somewhere, and breakfast before we are married, by ourselves. I think I want to assure your life when you come up on Monday week; it will be settled in the time you are here, two or three days; bring all your things when you come on 10th August; say to your mother you are going to stay with my Mends a fortnight and then look for a situation in the time. After we are married you can have all you wish for, so you will have enough money for the present time, as you do not want to boy anything; all the clothes you have will do for the present, till we are married, and on Wednesday, after we are man and wife for life, I shall take money enough to supply all your wants and wishes, so rest happy till then, my dearest girl. I will expect to see youthen in London on Monday week, to assure your life and buy you the wedding-ring to give you to keep till the day 1 put it on your finger; the 11th August next must be the day, I cannot wait another day longer than that my dearest girl Buy nothing except you want it very much indeed, as I will buy you all you want the Wednesday after we are married on a certainty, but at the same time remember all I have told you. I am now awaiting to hear from you again; say you will do as I write by return of post—I am, dearest Mary, your ever affectionate lover, W. G. YOUNGMAN.—Kind respects to all friends, remember, do not forget what I have said; be careful keep all your letters looked up, so your mother and no one can see them, and bring them when you come here."
"8, Henrietta Street, Covent Garden, July 16th, 1860. "My beloved Polly.—I received your kind and most welcome letter this morning, and was glad to hear you were enjoying good health, myself I am pretty well in health, bnt am anxious to see you again; indeed I long for the 23d, Monday, to come to see you. I suppose you will stay as you said before with Mrs. Walker, at Gloucester-terrace, till she leaves, which you said would be on 26th of this month, that would be on Thursday week, so you could stay three or four days there, and I shall be, of course, there with you once a day at least, I have made up my mind to get away from here this week, so I shall be with you next week when you come. Since I gave notice to leave here last Wednesday, our people have spoken to me in such a manner that has not suited me, and I am certain to give Mrs. Duncan a good talking to next time she goes on at me again, when I hope the Doctor will tell me to go at once, has theu that is what I want, when I shall be paid my wages the same up to 11th August, when I shall go to my brother's and be able to do many things I want to do before we are married, dearest girl. I know I shall have a job to get a holiday when I want it if I stay here longer than this week, so I am in hopes of getting off from here this week, to-day; tonight I want Mrs. Duncan or the Doctor to talk to me, then I shall he ready to talk to them, and so be sent off. You understand, I am a little sharp in this. Now, my dearest Polly, I have a form to be filled up to take to the Life Assurance Company's office, that his, to answer all the written questktns as asked on the printed forms, which is necessary should be done
first. I know your name and address, but your occupation, I shall say you have (none)—you understand? But I want to know your place of birth, and date, and your certificate of birth is required to be taken to the office, just to let them see your right age; then, of course, I shall say single, and a spinster; then I want to know your father's and mother's ages, and also to know if you have ever been abroad; if so, where, and for what period of time; also, have you had the small-pox, or have you been vaccinated; have you ever had the gout, or spitting of blood, asthma, rupture, convulsions, fits of insanity, vertigo, habitual cough, disease of the lungs, complaint of the liver, or any other disease which tends to the shortening of life; let me know this, but I can say what I like, or you like, has any of these complaints, of corse, would be against your having your life assured. Then it's asked, has any member of the family died of consumption; I think you said your sister died of that dreadful complaint; but I must say no to that answer. Then they want to know the name and residence of your medical attendant; you could say you had none, to that question; but the name and residence of an intimate friend is required to be referred to for general information, that is to say, they must have some one who knows you to write to, to ask they how long they have known you and your family, and are they healthy, and his your health been good, and his it so now, and to ask if any member of the family have died of any bad disorder, such as I have said; and you must tell the friend, whoever you get to do this for you, to make it out in the best manner he or she can, has you will also do; and let them say they are not a near relation, only a friend, if ever you are. You understand that, dearest girl, has all must be done in the best possible manner to have them assure your life, has they would not take you if they thought you were unhealthy, or any of your family had died of anything bad, or where any of them unhealthy, that would be, of corse, against it, so, when they write to your friend, let them give a good letter to them—he sure and manage that with them, and to answer the letter they send by return of post; so, when you come up on Monday next, all you will have to do will be to go with me to the Assurance Office, near the Bank of England, city, and see the, medical man there, then I can give you the money to pay the first premium upon your life, which will not be a large sum to assure 100l. in case you should die any death, which sum would be of use to your children or me, in that case, dearest girl; but it his a very good thing to do, and the duty of every mother, or wife, or father to assure their lives, if they can but spare a little to pay every quarter; see what distress often arises from friends not leaving any thing to their relations or dear friends when they die! You know the benefit of all this, therefore you will, of corse, just send me the information I require of you, that I may take and fill up the form to take to the office, so they can write to your friend has I tell you. Write has soon has you can, has I am anxious to get on with it before you come next Monday to London. Now, I am, with love ever to you, your loving, affectiouate, WILLIAM GODFREY YOUNGMAN.—My kindest remembrance to your friends, and quick answer I hope to have, my most beloved girl; I am indeed anxious to get all these things settled, and look forward for the happy day when you will be mine for life. Adieu, dearest."
"16, Manor-place, Newington, London, S.
"My most beloved Mary.—I received your affectionate note this morning, but I must say I am very much hurt to find you state in your note that you do not wish to have your life assured; why, my dearest girl, why do you alter your mind? I have been to the office, have told them to write to
your friend, Mrs. James Bone, for the information they require, they did so yesterday, and expect her to send them answer by return of post; and I told them you would come with me on Monday for the policy, so let Mrs. James Bone write to them has they wish, and that you will go with me and assure your life on Monday next has you said you would before. Why can you go from your word? You will never lose anything by assuring your life; will not die any sooner, my dear girl And as regards your father and mother not liken you to do so, you can do has you like without them preventing. Now, say no more to them about it, but come and do has I wish you to do. I shall, indeed, never forgive you if you do not, has I, wish you to do so for a particular purpose, which I will tell you of. I will always pay for it, of corse, and you will never lose anything by it. I intend to get a house for you and myself near or in Brighton next week, as it will, of corse, be foolish for me to go there without you can go with me, even after you have assured your life; but if you will not do this, and will rather mind what your friends say to you about assuring your life, why I cannot think you would love me has I wish you would. You will never find any one to love you so again, and would you break my heart aud not do has I wish you in this little thing? Why do you not do has you said? Can you cease to love me? Will you now refuse to do this which is for the good of those you leave behind when you should DIE? Surely, my dearest girl, you will still love me and do this, or how can I think you do love me if you refuse? no, I cannot believe you love me. Now, my dearest girl, I have nearly Bettled the assurance, I have left my situation, I have look for a house for us to live in, and with your consent I have published the bans of our marriage, and you have consented to be mine next Monday week. Now, can you break my heart and act like-this? do has I tell you, dearest girl, and I will do anything you wish to be done, only do has you have agreed to do, let me assure your life on Monday next, and be mine own dear wife the following Monday has you promised me in your letter, and every thing you wish for shall be yours. I shall have money enough to supply more than our wants. Next Wednesday or Thursday come and be mine, and we will have all this settled, and we will go down and see all your friends in a few days after things are Bettled. I want you to go to Brighton to get a house, where I wish to live with you, my dearest Polly. Do you love me still 1 if so, do as I wish and keep your promise; be sure and bring the certificate of your birth with you on Monday, and let Mrs. James Bone answer the letter to the Assurance Company to-day, if she has not done so yesterday, so they will get answer on Monday morning before you and I go there. They will not keep you a moment, ray dear girl, only be mine and do this and be happy. You cannot do wrong in this, you will never have cause to regret; pray do has I wish, come and do this on Monday; come, come to me, and be mine, you will never want for a thing while you live, believe me. I cannot but be hurt, hurt, indeed, if you do not comply with my request; do make me happy, do this, it will be all for your good. Write again so I can have a letter on Monday before you come up. Oh, my dearest girl, I know you will not break my heart, I that love you more than life; be mine and never will you want for anything, I swear; but say not a word to your friends till we are married, then they shall be made glad, and we will have a jolly day near home; they will not be sorry for your having me, one that make a lady of you soon, and make you happy for life; one who loves you more thau his life, and can you not do has he wished you to do I say yes, dearest Mary.—I am,-with
love to you, hoping you are well and happy, your ever affectionate lover, and ever more I am your best Friend, believe me; but I am hurt, pray heal me, say you will do has I wish, my dearest girl, I am your dearest W. G. YOUNGMAN."
"16, Manor Place, Newington, July 19, 1860.
"My most beloved Mary.—I received your kind and most welcome letter this morning about 11 o'clock; I was expecting to get it by 8 o'clock, but you put Boro' in the address too much, so it was sent to the Boro' first, which caused it to be late; put the address only as above, dearest girl. I have filled up the paper now and took it to the Life Assurance Office, aud they will write to Mrs. James Bone to-day to get answer on Saturday, so you can go with me to the office before 2 o'clock on Monday; when you come up you will arrive in London about half-past 9 o'clock on Monday morning, that was the time I arrived last Monday week. Do not, my dearest girl, say anything to your mother about what you are going to do, only say you are coming to see me and stay with me and my friends till you get a situation here in London; and I think you had better not bring all your things, only the most particular ones, the best you has. You will not want many things till we are married, has you will have some made or bought for you by me before we are married, but bring a few of your best things only, and, above all things, bring all your letters and papers, leave nothing of importance behind, has all little things you have I want to see, And I shall, of corse, go to Brighton for a time after we are married, if not before; but I shall see you on Monday morning. You must bring the certificate of your birth with you, has it must be taken to the office on Monday next, before the quarter's premium is paid, aud I wish it to be done nest Monday morning. I will take lodgings for you and me when you come up on Monday. You need not go to Mrs. Walker's at all; keep with me and I will manage it all comfortable enough for you; don't bring all your things, you understand, and only the best bring with you, and if you can borrow a little money of your father, do so for a few days when I can give it you to send him back, you understand, has money is short with me till about this day week, Thursday. But I want to see you, dearest, and get your life assured, and get many things settled before then; and we will both go down and see your father and mother and friends, and surprise them, in about a week or eight days after we are married; but I am now, even now, has much has husband to you, dear girl, do has I tell you, and I am, with love, ever and ever to you. Do not forget to bring your birth certificate, as you cannot assure your life without it. I hope you will let me have answer by return of post, my most beloved girl, and one on Monday as well, to meet you at the station, London Bridge on Monday. I am your dear and most affectionate, W. G. YOUNGMAN."—Kind remembrance to your frieuds. You might bring a little of your home-made butter, and some things with you, only do not say I told you, you understand, it will be for your good, my dearest girl, I am now waiting to see you.
"16, Manor Place, London, July 21, 1860.
My dearest Mary.—I received your letter this morning. I am very much hurt to find you say you will not have your life assured, after I have troubled, and you had promised me faithfully to have it done, and to be my own dear wife on Monday next, but Tuesday will do has well has Monday, my dear girl, only your father, and mother, or any one must not know it. You promised me faithfully, over and over again, and I expect you will keep your promise that you would be mine, and that your frieuds would not know it till we were married. But now, dearest Mary, if you will only let Mrs.
James Bone write to the Assurance Office at once, and go with me to have your life assured on Monday morning next, I will settle with you, and after that his done your friends may know that we are going to be married. I will arrange all things, so you and myself can go down to your house, if possible, the same day we are married, so you need not bring any of your things up with you. Keep to your promise, my dear girl, and your friends shall know we are married the same day that we are, next Tuesday week, but I must have you first assure your life, has I have a great wish for you to do so, and cannot believe you love me unless you do, so cannot certainly think you do love me now. I sent this in haste that Mrs. James Bone may have time to write to them to-day, so the letter will get in London on Monday morning, first post, if not, and you come, bring the letter with you, and the certificate of your birth. Now, I am in earnest; I am keeping my word; you have promised me, now if you love me do this. I am, your affectionate lover, ever till death, WILLIAM GODFREY YOUNGMAN—For your own sake, dearest girl, do has I say. Adieu."
"16, Manor Place, Newington, Saturday night, July 28th, 1860,
My beloved Polly.—I have posted one letter to you this afternoon, but I find I shall not have to go to Brighton to-morrow, as X have had a letter from them with what I wanted inside of it; so, my dear girl, I have quite settled my business now, and I am quite ready to see you now, therefore I send this letter to you. I will take this to London Bridge station to-morrow morning, by a quarter past 6 o'clock, and get the guard to take it to Wadhurst station, to give it to the porter there, who will get a man to take it to your place. I can only give the guard something, so you can give the man who brings this a small sum. I shall expect to see you, my dearest girl, on Monday morning, by the first train. I will await your coming at London Bridge station. I know the time the train arrives, a quarter to ten o'clock. I have promised to go to my uncle's to-morrow, so I cannot come down, but I will go back home with you on Monday night, or first thing Tuesday, so return here again Tuesday night to be ready to go anywhere on Wednesday; but you know all I have told you, and I now expect you will come up on Monday morning, when I shall be able to manage things has I wish to do, Excuse more, my dearest Mary. I shall now go to bed to be up early in the morning to take this letter. Bring or bum all your letters, my dear girl; do not forget, and, with kind love to you and respects to all, I now sum up, waiting to see you Monday morning, a quarter to 10 o'clock. Believe me ever your loving, affectionate, WILLIAM GODFREY YOUNGMAN.—You know all I have told you, therefore come, dearest girl; come, I am anxious now to see you. Adieu for the present."
The form of proposal was then put in, and the answer to question 13 "Has any member of your family died of consumption?" was "No"—The policy of assurance was also put in, it was for 100l. effected by William Godfrey Youngman, of 16, Manor-place, Newington, retired tailor, on the life of Mary Wells Streeter, of Hunter's hall, Wadhurst, Sussex, commencing on 25th July, and renewable quarterly. The receipt for the first quarter's premium 10s. 1d. was produced and read.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
to the best of my knowledge—her mother is dead and I have married again—the prisoner is a schoolmistress—she carried on her school in Parvy-place, Red Cross-street, Southwark—I had sent four children to her school; I had sent Caroline for two years—after the expiration of that time the prisoner took a great liking to the girl—she said so; and she wanted to take her as a companion to her—she said she would clothe her and give her good schooling, and make her a governess—she said if anything should happen to herself in the course of the night, she would be handy to call up a neighbour to come to her attendance—she was not to do anything at all; merely to stop in the house and to play; just to amuse her indoors; she was to do no work at all—when she went to live with the prisoner she was stout and in a very good state of health indeed—she has lived with her eleven months, and she was at school there two years previously—last Monday fortnight, when some investigation was made into this matter, I saw the state of my daughter—I took her home and had her examined by Mr. Wood, our family doctor—she was in a very bad state indeed at that time—Mr. Evans examined her before Mr. Wood when she was at the station—she was very weak and very delicate indeed from the punishment she received.
COURT. Q. Did she ever complain to you during the time? A. No, never; I saw her frequently from time to time—I saw her ten days before this occurred—I live about 300 yards from the prisoner—my family at that time at home consisted of six—she had brothers and sisters—I married again after the death of Caroline's mother—I had three children by one wife and four by the other—I had seven children at home besides my wife—Caroline used to come to my house; sometimes once a fortnight, sometimes once in three weeks, and I used frequently to see her.
MR. LILLEY. Q. How long did Mr. Wood, the medical man, attend her? A. For about eight or nine days, and she improved under his attendance.
CAROLINE LEFEVRE . I went to school to the prisoner for about two years—after that I went to live with her—while I went to school there I sometimes said my prayers; but I did not read or write, not when I lived there—when I went to school there she taught me my prayers, and to read and write—I can't say how long ago it was that I went to live with her—I cannot tell about how many months it was—she did not continue to teach me after I went to live with her—I had to brush the fire-place, and sometimes I swept the room, and I looked after the other children—I don't know how many other children went to school there; it was more than twenty—it was a day-school—during the time that I was there the prisoner treated me very cruelly—she beat me with a thick stick, and sometimes with a cane—she used to beat me very often—I recollect when I was taken and examined before the Justice at the police-court—she had beaten me a long time before that—she used to beat me 'most every day—she beat me on my head, and she hit me once with a poker, and once with a shovel—both blows were on the head—I know this stick (produced)—that is the stick that she beat me with—it was all in one piece; she broke a little piece off one time, when she was beating me—I can't tell you what it did to my head when she struck me on the head with a poker—I can tell whether it cut my head or not—I do not know whether it made any mark or anything; it hurt me—I did not put my hand up—I cannot tell whether it was sore afterwards—my head was sore when the surgeon looked at me—that soreness was done when phe beat me on the head with the shovel and the poker and the thick stick—I recollect the prisoner sending me to take a mat somewhere—I do not recollect about the time that was—I did not have to fetch it; I was going to take it out and shake it—the prisoner was angry with me about the mat, aud she burnt me on the hand with
a hot iron—she was ironing at that time—she did not burn me anywhere else; only on my hand; the mark is there now—nothing was ever done to my neck, only where she beat me—the prisoner sometimes beat me with a cane on my head—she did not beat me anywhere else with a cane—when she beat me with the stick she struck me somewhere else sometimes—she struck me on my shoulders with a stick—I recollect on the Tuesday week, there was some dirt in the pan in the school, dirt that the children had done—the prisoner put that in my mouth and made me eat it—there was a little girl, Mary Walters, there, and several others, besides myself and the prisoner—Mary Walters held my arms behind me and the prisoner then took a piece of paper and took the dirt out of the pan and put it in my mouth—she said if I did not put it in my mouth she would poke it down with a stick—I spit it out against the door—the little girl said, "There it is," and the governess said, "If you don't put it in your mouth, and if you don't swallow it I will poke it down with a stick"—the prisoner did not then pick it up again—the little girl picked it up and said, "There it is, governess"—she did not give it to the governess—the governess told her to give it to me—the little girl did not then put it in my mouth—the governess told me to put it in my mouth, and said, "If you don't swallow it I will poke it down with a stick"—she made me swallow the dirt—sometimes I have had black eyes where she beat me; I cannot tell you how many times—I don't think it was more than, once—I have been living at home with my father since the prisoner was before the Magistrate, and they treat me very kindly, and I have been attended by the doctor.
Prisoner. Q. How did you come by the blow on the back of your head, where did you knock it against? A. You did it, governess, with a stick—I did not fall backwards and get that bruise, you did it with the stick.
COURT. Q. How came you not to complain to your father of being so ill used? A. I was afraid, as I was going back to her again—I can't tell who I first told that I had been ill used—I don't recollect at all how long ago it was since I first told that I had been cruelly used.
MARY ANN MARIA WALTERS . I went to Mrs. Allen's school—I don't know how long I went there—I am seven years old—I went to school when Caroline Lefevre was there—I recollect there being some dirt in the school pan on the Tuesday week before I went before the Magistrate—the prisoner made me hold Caroline's hands behind, while she put the dirt into Caroline's mouth—then Caroline went to the door and spat it out, and a little girl found it and said, "Here it is, governess," and then the governess told the little girl to give it to Caroline; and the little girl gave it to Caroline, and the governess said that if she did not put it into her mouth, she would poke it down with a great stick, and after she had done that, the governess kicked the basin over and made Caroline wipe it, up—Caroline eat the dirt; she swallowed it—I never saw the governess do anything to Caroline; only that thing—I saw her beat her sometimes of a morning—she used to beat her with this stick.
COURT. Q. Do you know how it was she came to make her eat this? was it to punish her, or what? A I don't know how she came to do it—she did not say why she made her eat it—she did not say that she was a naughty girl; she did not give any reason.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Who had to empty that pan when it had been used? A. Caroline—she emptied it that day, and then there was some water in it.
Prisoner. You did not hold her hands behind her; she stood upright in the room at the time. Witness. I did, governess; I did hold her hands.
ELIZA MOLE . I am the wife of Richard Mole—I live next door to the prisoner—I know the obild, Caroline Lefevre—I had known her for about thirteen weeks when the prisoner was taken—during that time I have seen the prisoner beat her with a cane; not with anything else—it was beating in a very cruel way; I have seen her beaten till the blood has flown from her head, and on one occasion I saw her strike her across the nose with a cane and cut a gash—that was the Wednesday before the prisoner was taken up—the blood came from her nose—it left a scar across the bridge of the nose—I know the child's voice—I have heard her screaming and crying—the screams came from the prisoner's house—I have heard her say, "Pray, governess, oh, pray, governess, don't beat me again!"—I have heard that several times—I really can't say how many times—I have seen her beat her a dozen strokes at a time, when at the water-cask washing her head—it was more like beating a horse; in the most brutal way.
COURT. Q. Were they severe blows? A. Yes, they were—I never remonstrated with her, but I spoke to the neighbours opposite, and I was told to mind my own business; they said the child was a very bad child, and she deserved all; but I said there were other ways of correcting a child.
GEORGE JAMES MOLE . I am the son of the last witness—I live next door to the prisoner—I have seen the prisoner beat the child Caroline with a cane—I have seen it twice; that is all—it cut her head open in two blows, and the blood flowed—the prisoner told her to go to the tap and wash it off.
ANN ROSE . I am the wife of Samuel Rose—I live near the prisoner—I have seen her beat the child, Caroline, with a cane six or seven times, or more than that—the last time I saw her beat her most fearfully, was on her head, with a cane—she beat her fearfully; very violently—I saw some blood on Monday, 9th July—the blood came out of two wounds in the head—the prisoner was beating her at that time—I did not see anything else the matter with that part of the head; the child was in a stooping position—the flesh was off her head; the blood was running—that was from the blows—I spoke to the prisoner—I said, "Oh! horrible."
COURT. Q. What did the prisoner say? A. She never answered, but went on beating her—the child was praying for mercy at the time—I have seen her frequently with black eyes—I have lived near them four years—my children have been to school the last three years—I noticed that the child was ill used, about a month before 1 saw so fearful a beating on the head.
THOMAS WILLIAMS . I live in Pavey-court, eight doors from the prisoner—I have known Caroline Lefevre this last seven or eight months, but the last three months I have noticed the child being most brutally ill-treated—I have been in the neighbourhood nine months altogether—I have often met the child early in the morning, coming out of the prisoner's house between 6 and half-past, with a mug in her hand; sometimes before 6—she has been partly dressed, and her frock all unloosed, and I have seen bruises down her back—I saw her one Sunday about 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon, the same Sunday that the prisoner was taken, I think, 29th July—the child's face was one mass of bruises, the left eye was completely closed—I observed her arm; it was one mass of burn, and two bruises above the burn—the burn was a little distance up above the wrist, and the two bruises above it—I spoke to the child—she seemed all of a tremble when I spoke to her; she screamed out and begged me to let her go, or else she would be beaten by the governess—she seemed very much frightened and got a regular mob round her by her screams.
house on the Monday, she having been taken in custody on the Sunday night—I found these two pieces of stick across the grate, and some shavings underneath them, in the school-room; this piece was in the coal-cellar underneath the stairs; underneath some shavings; I got a candle, turned them over and found it—I have applied them together—they correspond and make up one stick—there is some blood at the thin end of it—the stick has been used a great deal—it appears to have been washed.
THOMAS EVANS . I am a surgeon, of 159, High-street, Walworth—I am divisional surgeon to the police—on the evening of Sunday, 29th July, I made an examination of the girl, Caroline Lefevre, at the police-station—upon examination I found three scalp wounds, one on the top of the head, and two on the side and back of the head—both the eyes, and the upper part of the face were blackened, and one side of the face was very much bruised—one of her eyes was closed, and the other partially closed—I noticed the upper part of her back and shoulders, they were very much bruised—there were several bruises on her legs—she was very much bruised, generally—the bruises and the wounds might have been produced by such a stick as this—there was a recent burn on the left hand; such as an iron might produce—when I saw it the blister had broken and discharged its contents—the wound at the top of the head was worse than the others—I think the largest wound was the size of a half-crown, or larger, perhaps—it appeared to have been neglected; I should say it had been done some days—I did not notice that it emitted an ill odour—the child appeared dirty and neglected—in my judgment she appeared weak from the effect of the injuries.
COURT. Q. Should you say the child had sustained bodily harm? A. Undoubtedly—grievous bodily harm.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Are you able to say by what instrument the large wound on the head was inflicted? A. That might have been produced by any heavy instrument, such as a poker.
Prisoner's Defence (written). Caroline Lefevre came to school to me, two years after which I agreed to take her to live with me; but she was a very naughty girl very much addicted to thieving, particularly the children's school-money, when she was entrusted with it to give it me; which I have looked over but have given her a stripe or two with the cane used in school, to try to break her of doing it, bat never to injure the child. I would send her for two loaves of bread, she would give me one and spend the other money; she would often serve me so by the meat and tea, which she often got a smack for, to try to break her of if; she always said she would not do it again, but did it the very next time she went out; and the filth that she speaks of was this, we all sat down to dinner off hashed beef and potatoes; I got up from my dinner to go after a younger child that was asleep, to bring it down to dinner, and said to Caroline, "empty that pan while I am gone up-stairs;" when I came down again I began to eat two or three mouthfuls, and thought it tasted very nasty, then looked and saw what it was; I asked her how it came there, she said it was a bit of wood, I said it was not; I said "I have eaten some, and you eat the rest;" she did it to serve me out because I asked her to empty the pan, but whether she eat it or not, I know not; I did not lay a finger on her for so doing, only told her to eat it, as she had put it for me; as to the burn on her hand, I told her three times not to touch the mat while I was rubbing the iron, and she would, and the iron did touch it as I was rubbing it on the mat, and did burn it; and the cut that is at the back of her head, she fell against the bedstead, backwards. The sticks were made for flags for the children when they went for their treat, but were never used
to beat any child with. I took this child, intending to train her up to take my school when I died, and to leave her all I had, which I told her stepmother when I took her; and have often asked her if she would go home, but she always said no, she would not go home. I took her for company, and to try to break her of some of her bad ways, if I could; to ill-use her I had no such thought, nor to keep her without her food, or I should not have found so many slices of bread and butter, fish, and meat thrown into the cupboard where she sat close to, to have her meals, partly eaten and thrown there.
ANN ROSE (re-examined.) The prisoner did not give any reason for beating the child when I was in the room—she used to have to put the forms ready, and I suppose it was because she could not get them quick enough, or get the children to their seats quick enough, and the child said, "Pray, governess, don't beat me, I will do it, governess."
GUILTY . Confined Three Years.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
PATRICK WALL . I live at 37, Hooper-street, Westminster-road, and am a hammerman—the prisoner lived next door to me, and my father and mother—on the night of 5th July, about half-past 8, I went into the yard behind our house, and I saw a girl there with an infant in her arms—both the girl and the infant were crying—I spoke to the girl, and about three or four minutes after that the prisoner came out of her house into her own yard—there was a fence about three feet high between our yard and hers—I could get over it, because the palings were broken—the prisoner rushed over to the girl that had the infant, and took it out of her arms, she pushed the girl on one side, and caught hold of the infant by the front of the pinafore, and one leg; but before that she hit it with her hand; her hand was closed—she hit it just on the back of the head once, then she caught hold of one of its legs, and the front of the pinafore, and dashed it down on the ground—the right side of the child's head touched the ground—the yard is gravelled—the prisoner then made an attempt to get the child again, and I jumped over just in time to pick it up—I picked up the child and gave it to its mother again—I thought she was going in-doors with it—she said she would go indoors with it then—she was very drunk—she then walked over to the water-butt, and I followed her—she lifted a bit of wood that acted as a cover to the water-butt, a sort of lid, and then chucked the baby head first into the water-butt—I rushed over and picked the child out of the water-butt directly—the child was about four months old—when the prisoner had chucked the baby into the water-butt she turned her back to the butt to go in-doors—I can't say whether she saw me pick the child out or not—she did not go indoors—I kept the child in my arms, trying to take its clothes off for a minute or two, and then the prisoner came and tried to take it from me several times—it was dripping wet—I kept her back with one hand as well as I could and I gave it to my mother, and went for a policeman—when the policeman came we went into the prisoner's house—the prisoner was sitting down on a box with her own eldest child in her arms, about eight years old—the policeman told her that she was to go along with him, and she asked him where her infant was—some one in the room said it was outside, and some woman was taking care of it—the policeman caught hold of her arm—she tried very much not to go with him, and said, "For God's sake don't take me; let me
stop here"—she would not go out with the policeman, and I caught hold of one of her arms—we had a very great job to get her out into the street—at the time she was in the act of putting the child into the water-butt, I saw a woman in the prisoner's room who wanted to come out, I expect, to save the child—she put one of her legs on the sill to come through the window because the door was locked—she could not get out at the door, and when she saw the prisoner coming over to the water-butt with the child she stepped back again—when I picked the child out of the butt the prisoner was not above a foot away from the butt—she turned her back to the butt directly she chucked the child in—she stood still about a foot from the butt—she stopped there about a minute till I had got it out—there was water enough in the butt to drown the child; it was three parts fall—directly you pushed the lid on one side you could see the water, you could not help seeing it—the butt was about three feet high, and about three parts full—the woman was reeling about, but I believe she could have stood steadily if she had liked, because, in the room, when we went in, she seemed as if she was all right—there was about ten minutes between the time she put the child into the butt, and the time that she said to the policeman, "For God's sake don't take me"—I did not observe the face of the baby when I took it out of the water-butt—I could see where the mark was on its head, where it had been bruised on the ground, and it was very pale—it never moved—I did not have it in my arms above two or three minutes.
COURT. Q. How did she put the child into the butt? A. She heaved it in—she had hold of it round the waist—the child was nearly double, I could hardly see which went in first, its head or its feet.
MARGARET WALL . I am the mother of the last witness—on the evening of 5th July I was in my own room about half-past 8—I heard the cry of a baby, and went out into the back yard, and my son gave me the prisoner's baby—it was a girl about four or five months old—it was dripping wet and looked between black and blue in the face, and it had a bruise on the right side of the head—it seemed to be a bruise just received—I undressed the baby, wrapped it up warm, and suckled it—it lived, and is now doing very well—I had known the prisoner for about two months as a neighbour—I never knew her to be cruel to her children before—she was always neat, and was either working or knitting at her door, working hard for her family—I never saw her in liquor before—she was in liquor that night.
MARY WILLIAMS . I am the wife of John Williams, and lived in the same house as the prisoner, on 5th July—between 7 and 8 that evening the prisoner called me into her room to pay me a shilling that she owed me—she began to tell me what a bother she had had to get her pension money—she is a soldier's widow—she had been drinking a little, but spoke sensibly enough to me—while I was there she took the baby from the bed where it was lying; it was crying—she took it by its clothes in front and threw it down on the ground on its back—she did it violently, in her passion—it was on the bed, but there was no bedstead—it fell on the boards, against the fire-place, about a yard from the bed—I picked it up and took it out into the street, and gave it to the prisoner's little girl; I then went back to the prisoner's room—the prisoner shut the door to keep me in; the handle was off on the inside and I could not open it—she said she had spent a good deal of her money, but she had only had one glass of gin during the day—she then undressed herself to search and try to find her money, and she broke and smashed the things in the room, and tore down the curtains; after that she heard the baby crying in the back-yard, and she said, "You b—bastard, I will do for you"—I
said, "For shame, Mrs. Weekstead, the poor little thing cannot help anything at all"—she opened the window aud leaped out into the yard, and took the baby out of the little girl's arms and threw it into the water-butt—I saw her do that—I was trying to get out of the window at the time—after that she came back into the room again, through the window—as soon as she let the child drop into the water she jumped in at the window directly—I could not see the water from where I was, but I looked directly after and saw that the butt was about three parts full—when she came back through the window I was frightened and got out of the window, and she called out, "Bring the young b—in, and I will do for it on the quiet"—it appeared to me as though the child went into the butt with its feet down and its head up—she held it by the body part of the clothes and plunged it in; let it drop—she did not hold it over the top for any time before she let it drop; it was all done in an instant—I don't believe her one hand went into the water—she did not push it in, she threw it in—she never took the least notice of it after she put it in—as soon as she put it in she directly jumped through the window—she never looked to see whether it was in the water or not—she told me before she was confined with this child that she did not wish to have any one to attend her, in case it might get her pension stopped—her husband has been dead five or six years—I think he died in the Crimea—I have seen her give the child the breast at different times—she had not any money at the time of her confinement—her confinement was a very bad one.
COURT. Q. Did she appear to you to be drunk on this occasion? A. No; she did not reel about—she walked down the street steady enough when she came home—she jumped through the window better than I could—I did not go close enough to her to find whether she smelt of spirits—I could see that she had had something to drink, but she was not tipsy; I should say she was about half-and-half.
Prisoner. Q. Have I lived in the next room to you eleven months? A. I can't say exactly how long—I never saw you ill-use your eldest girl—I never saw you associate with any man or woman—I can't say what time you came home at night; I was always in bed by 10 o'clock.
ANN HODGES . I am the wife of Henry Hodges, a fishmonger, of Gloucester-street, Lambeth—on 5th July, in consequence of what I heard, I went to the prisoner's room—I saw the infant brought in; it was all wet—I had not seen the prisoner at that time; I did not know her—I pushed the door open and went in—she was lying on the ground, with her hair all over her face—she was very drunk—she called me a bad name, and said, "You have broken open my door"—I said, "No, I have not, but where is your poor baby that you have put in the water-butt?"—she jumped up, and struck me in the eye—she was afterwards removed by the police.
MRS. HACKETT. I am a widow, living in Hooper-streeet; I was present at the prisoner's confinement—about a quarter of an hour after the child was born she said she wished it was dead—I have heard her say the same many times since—I can't tell when was the last time she said it—I never saw her do any harm to the child.
Prisoner. Q. Have not I often wished myself dead as well as the child? A. Yes—I once saw a soldier at your place—I don't know who he was.
Prisoner. Q. Did you ever see me keep any bad company? A. No; I go out to work and come home late.
THOMAS FOSTER (Policeman, L 133). I was called on this night—I found the prisoner in the back room, ground floor, sitting on a stool with her eldest child—she was decidedly drunk—I told her I took her into custody for attempting to destroy her child by putting it into the water-butt—she said, "For God's sake don't take me"—she resisted very violently—I had great trouble to get her out of the room—she was very much excited; to a state of madness; she was hardly conscious of what she was about—I took the child to Mr. Wagstaff, and it was taken to the workhouse—there was a large bump on the right side of the head as large as a small hen's egg—it appeared to be recent; it was swollen—the child is now quite well—it was in danger for a fortnight.
The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I don't know what I did to the child; I don't know what I was doing. I got the worse for drink. I had 16s. 4d. before I got the worse for drink, and next morning when I got my purse there was 7s. 6d. in it.
The Prisoner put in a written defence stating that on the day in question she went to receive her pension, that her companions tempted her to take a glass of gin, and, having walked a long distance and gone without food, it had such an effect upon her that site was entirely unconscious of what she did.
GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury, on account of her previous kindness to the child.— Three Years Penal Servitude.
There was another indictment against the prisoner, for an assault on the witness, Ann Hodges.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS HOUGH . I am a lighterman in the employ of Messrs. Young and Raymond—on Thursday, 26th July, I completed the loading of the barge Cliarlotte—there were 500 quarters of oats; 165 in sacks, and the rest in bulk—two sacks make a quarter—the sacks were branded, some "Brown and Young," some, "Young and Raymond," and some "Raymond and Son"—Mr. Young's name is Thomas Brown Young—he is in partnership with Mr. Raymond—the corn belonged to them—when I had completed loading I covered the sacks with a tarpaulin and left them in the Commercial Dock—on Friday evening I saw the Charlotte at the prosecutor's wharf, at about half-past 6 or 7—I found then, on examination, a deficiency in the bulk to the extent of eleven quarters; twenty-two sacks—the deficiency was in the oats that were in the sacks.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE (for Bates). Q. Do you know Bates? A. I know them all; he has been a lighterman for the last fifteen years.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY (for Messenger and Moss). Q. Have you known Moss for some time? A. Yes, six years; and during four years of that time he has occasionally been in the employment of Young and Raymond—not regularly—he was in their employment up to this time—I have been on the river a few years—if it was low tide at eight o'clock the tide would not serve later than ten or half-past to get out into the stream—it was low water on this evening about 8—I have known Messenger about the same time as Moss—he lives very near the wharf not more than five minutes' walk from it—when I left the Charlotte in the Commercial Deck I
left a tarpaulin over it—when I saw her alongside the dock on Friday evening the tarpaulin was still there.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE (for Wickers). Q. Do you know the Globe wharf at the other side of the river? A. Yes; that is as near as possible opposite the wharf of Young and Raymond—the loose corn was shot down the shoot, and I backed the sacks, that is, put them on the men's backs—I know for a certainty the number; I counted them—I have no book here—I do not keep any book—we stow them in tiers, and count the tiers—there were 330 sacks, 165 quarters—I observed how the sacks were marked—they were not all marked in the same way—I have been examined on this matter before—I felt certain how the sacks were marked when I was examined before.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Was Moss in the prosecutor's employment on that particular day? A. Yes—I can't say what time the men knock off work—we have no limited time at all—it is day work—the day ended on that day about 8 o'clock, but I went to work after that again at night—after 11 o'clock at night we are paid for extra hours—the day begins at 4 o'clock in the morning—I did not see Moss at all that evening—supposing that work did not detain him he would leave about 8 o'clock.
MR. METCALFE. Q. You go by the tide, do you not? A. We begin a day's work, if we are required, at about 4 o'clock in the morning—we do not work all those hours—Bates has been a lighterman fifteen years, Groves and Son, and Pillow and Son, are his masters—he has been working recently for Groves and Son, up to the present time—he is not Wicker's servant that I am aware of—the present firm of the prosecutors' is Young and Raymond—there were two firms before that, one of Raymond and Son, and the other of Brown and Young—that Mr. Young was the present Mr. Young's father.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Have you known Bates to be working for other persons, in the fifteen years, besides Groves and Son, and Pillow and Son? A. No; most likely he has been working for others.
JOHN HARPER . I live at 45, Salisbury-square, Bermondsey—on Thursday, 26th July, I brought up the barge Charlotte from the Commercial Docks Rotherhithe, to Messrs. Young and Raymond's premises—it was covered over with a tarpaulin when I brought it—I left it in the same state at Messrs. Young's premises—that was about 9 o'clock at night—I moored the barge at Bermondsey-wall, under Messrs. Young and Raymond's premises—Wickers' barge was next to it; I believe it is called the George—I left Wickers there—he was there when I took the barge in—we gave him orders to shift out to let the other barge in, and I then moored the barge next to his, inside—Moss and Messenger assisted me to moor the Charlotte—they were in Messrs. Young's employment at the time—Moss came away just after me—I left Messenger there; he was then on the Charlotte—I left the premises at 9 o'clock.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you know the George before that day? A. I saw her there in the morning—I should say she was of about forty tons—she might carry a little more than that—I know they always carry more than they measure—I don't think she would carry sixty tons—I have nothing at all to do with the George—I did not bring the Charlotte alongside so early as 3; there was not water sufficient to take her there—I left Rotherhithe at 3—I came alongside the wharf about half-past 8, and the tarpaulin remained as it was; and when I left at 9, I left everything correct—I left Messenger on the barge—he was to have charge of her—when a watchman in charge has to watch two barges, he takes his place on he craft; he must get from one to the other by stepping over—they are
moored close enough for that; one barge was lying head down the stream, and stern up—she was moored broadside to the wharf—the other barge was moored alongside of her in the same way.
COURT. Q. Yours was the innermost, was it not? A. Yes.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. I suppose it would take some ten minutes or quarter of an hour to remove twenty-two sacks, would it not? A. I should think it would take all that time—not one of these sacks was removed during the time I was there—I left at 9 o'clock, exactly—when I came up with the barge I asked Wickers to move away; by my orders he moved and remained in his barge the whole time I was there—I don't know anything about what took place after 9 o'clock—I was sent away—I know a person named Jupp—I have been in the habit of working with him for some time—I don't know anything about his character one way or the other—he was a constant hand with Messrs. Young and Raymond; he was employed by other bargemen occasionally—I am not aware that he was occasionally employed by Wickers—I don't know whether he was employed by him that evening; I did not see Jupp there that evening.
MR. METCALEF. Q. Have you ever seen him since that evening? A. I have not—I don't know that inquiries have been made for him.
THOMAS ARNALL . I am a lighterman in the employment of Messrs. Young and Raymond—on Thursday 26th, I gave the prisoner Messenger, directions, about half-past 8 in the evening, to go and watch the Charlotte barge, loaded with oats, and the Indefatigable—he would, leave at 6 in the morning; it was his duty to keep on board, either the Indefatigable or the Charlotte during the whole of that time—in consequence of information I received I went, between 11 and 12 o'clock, the same night, to the wharf where the Charlotte was; I was shown twenty-two sacks which were in Wickers' barge, the George; Messenger was not there—he came there at about a quarter or twenty minutes to 12—I may have been there six or seven minutes before he came—I was, after that, taken to Wapping to see the George.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How long have you known Bates? A. A good many years—I knew him when he was an apprentice—up to this time he has always borne a good character for honesty—I know his father; he is a very respectable man indeed—he has not been a master lighterman to my knowledge—he is foreman to Mr. Groves, and managing man as well.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. What is your situation with Messrs. Young and Raymond? A. Foreman, for many yeare—Messenger was on watch the night before this—he was also employed at work during the day—I did not go to the wharf earlier in the evening before—I went between 11 and 12—I left the premises about 6—Moss frequently works for other persons when he cannot get employment from our people.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Was it your duty to go into the Charlotte and see that the number of sacks was right? A. No; not exactly; it is seldom I ever do that—I have sometimes gone in and seen them, but not particularly to count the sacks—it was not my duty to enter the Charlotte—I saw the craft come there—it was not my duty to go into the Charlotte to see that the number of sacks was right—I generally stand on the granary as they come up, to see the craft moored and tell the men where to moor them—it was nearly 12 when I went into the George to see the twenty-two sacks—at that time the barge was over at New Crane Wharf, below the tunnel—that is on the opposite aide of the river—that is about half a mile off, or nearly so.
COURT. Q. Were the twenty-two sacks you speak of empty sacks or sacks with corn? A. Sacks with oats in—the sacks had "John Raymond and Son" on some, and "Brown and Young" on some.
MR. SHARPE. Q. I suppose you know that Young and Raymond send their sacks about to various people? A. No, they never lend their sacks to any one—the corn goes to different places at times, but we have the sacks back.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know whether those were or not Messrs. Young's sacks that you saw in the barge at Wapping? A. Yes—I saw twenty-two sacks there.
WILLIAM BELLAMY . I am superintendent of Messrs. Young and Raymond's granaries—the barge Charlotte was discharged on Monday 30th—I counted the sacks and instead of 165 quarters, which I expected, there were only 154; 308 sacks—that would leave 11 quarters missing; 22 sacks—I went to the warehouse and examined the sacks found in the George—I found 22 sacks—they belonged to Raymond and Young, my employers—I also examined the oats and they corresponded with those in the Charlotte—I have samples with me—they are the same kind of oats; Swedish—eleven sacks were marked "Brown and Young," nine marked "Raymond and Sons," and two marked "Young and Raymond"—all those brands belong to us.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How long have you been with Messrs. Young? A. About five years—I have known Bates during that time as a lighterman—I have never heard anything against his character that I am aware of.
EDWARD GRIFFITHS . I am waterman to Mr. Bond—he has the adjoining wharf to Messrs. Young and Raymond—our wharf is separated by the Five Foot Way and the Green Man—on Thursday 26th July, I saw Moss and Messenger in the Five Foot Way between 9 and 10, talking to one another—Moss left Messenger and went out towards the street, and Messenger went aboard the barge—I did not see any more of them after that—when I saw them talking they were just on the top of the steps, near where the Charlotte was lying; about a dozen yards from her—I was alongside of them—I passed them at that time—I saw two other men, on board the Charlotte; I knew one of them; it was Jupp—I have not seen him since—I did not know the other man—they seemed to be standing on the barge—they did not seem to be doing anything—I saw a barge with flour in it alongside the Charlotte—I do not know whether it was Wickers' barge—there was no one in that barge.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. How long have you known Bates? A. Fourteen or fifteen years—up to this time I have never heard anything against him as an honest man.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Where were you standing? A. I was rowing on shore from Mr. Bond's barge—they were speaking together a minute or two—I only saw them while I was passing—I should say it was then nearer 10 o'clock than 9—I saw Jupp afterwards when I came back coming up the Foot Way—that was about 10—I was away about a quarter of an hour, or it might have been less—I went into the Green Man public-house and had a pint of porter; it did not take long to drink that.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Was it not past 10 at this time? A. No, not when I left the wharf—I said just now it was nearer 10 than 9—it was about 10 when I got back—I can't swear I saw Wickers—I do not know who the other man in the barge was—I think it was low water between 7 and 8—I may be mistaken, I won't be certain—if there is sufficient water a barge can be navigated across the river three or four hours after low water
—I knew Jupp before—he was employed by Young and Raymond—he was not employed by other persons that I know of—I do not know whether he was employed by Wickers on this day or not—I did not remark this barge in which the flour was—I passed close by and saw it there—I should not think she was sixty tons—I should think between forty and fifty.
COURT. Q. Had there been a regatta on the river on that day? A. Not that I know of—I was there all day.
ALFRED LANGFORD . I am an inspector of the Thames police—on 26th July, at a quarter to 10 I was in the police galley—I saw the barge called the George; four persons were in it; Wickers, Bates, Moss, and Jupp, who has absconded—Wickers' name was on the barge—they were coming from Young and Raymond's premises, Bermondsey-wall—they were about twenty yards from there, coming out into the stream—I hailed them and shortly after went on board—I found 11 quarters of oats and 110 barrels of flour—I had spoken to Wickers and he said he had got 10 quarters of oats and 110 barrels of flour, and on counting them I found 11 quarters—I then asked for their orders—two orders were given to me; these are the documents (produced)—Wickers produced them—one is for 110 barrels of flour and the other for 10 quarters of oats from S. and H. Bowyer—(Read)—this is not signed—one ia an order for 110 barrels of flour from Messrs. Young and Raymond—when I saw the order was for ten quarters I said, "You have got eleven quarters; how do you account for the one quarter, or two sacks?"—Wickers said, "They have been put in, they have been given over"—I then said, "The sacks are marked 'Brown and Young"—Wickers said, "They are all over the world"—I said, "This is all wrong, I shall have to take you into custody"—the tide was going down and we had to make across the water to Wapping—the barge was made fast at New Crane—Wickers then pulled me on one side and said, "Won't 5l., settle it?"—I said, "No, not a 100l"—Moss and Bates were tken in the head sheets of the barge—they could hear; we were all close together—I afterwards showed these sacks to Messrs. Young's foreman—none of the sacks were marked S. and H. Bowyer.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. You say Wickers pulled you on one side to ask you this? A. Yes—he spoke to Die so that all could hear—he whispered to me and said, "Won't 5l. settle it?"—at the station-house Bates said he was there to give Wickers assistance with his barge over the water.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Was there not a regatta on the river that day? A. There was; it continued in the afternoon—it was over before I came on duty—I came on duty at 7 o'clock—I was by Young and Raymond's wharf about two hours and a half; from 7 till half-past 9, near the place; but I went up as far as the Temple in the course of that time—that is a good way up—I returned back again—I rowed by the wharf—I did not go to it then; not till I went about a quarter past 11—it was not five minutes before I saw the George that I had been near Young and Raymond's wharf—the Thames police galley is paiuted green, as other boats are—it has not a regulation colour put on it—all the police galleys are painted green.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. I believe you know Jupp? A. I do; he works for Young and Raymond—I believe he is a constant man—I believe he is not a man of good character—he absconded on this occasion—he came ashore in a boat—I did not pursue him, because I did not know at the time that anything was wrong in the barge—I boarded the barge
because I thought four men was too many to navigate a barge of that description, but I could not stop Jupp because I had no proof—I went ashore, but I did not follow him any distance—I hailed him aud he bolted—I have never seen him since—I first saw the George about a quarter to 10—I believe I stated before the Magistrate that Wickers said that the sacks were all over the world—with regard to the 5l., Wickers did not say to me that he would rather have given a 5l. note than that those oats should have been found in his barge; I am quite sure that was not what he said—there was no conversation going on at that time—the twenty-two sacks would make what we call a broken tier on the barge—when I first went on board the barge the other men said they were assisting Wickers over the water—Wickers was then in the head sheets of the barge—this was not said in a low voice—I believe I have told you all that Wickers told me at the station—he said he did not know how the corn came into the barge—it might have been at the station that the others mentioned about the assistance—I did not know at the time who Wickers was working for—I thought by his name being on the barge it belonged to him—I believe the barge belongs to Mr. Ticer; he made an application for it—there is no charge about the 110 barrels—that was correct—they were for Messrs. Young aud Raymond—he was properly there as to those—he received them from that wharf.
MR. METCALFE. Q. You said that Wickers pulled you on one side, were there other persons there besides Moss and Bates? A. No—he pulled me on one side and said, "Won't 5l. settle it"—he did not exactly whisper it but he did not hallo it out loud—I had been by the wharf five minutes before I saw the barge pulling up the river—I was near enough to the wharf for anybody to see me go by—I was above the wharf when I saw the barge—I pulled by near enough for anybody to see me—I should not usually come back again so quickly.
THOMAS BROWN YOUNG . I am one of the partners in the firm of Yonng and Raymond—I saw Wickers' barge on 26th July, about a quarter to 10 in the morning—it was then moored alongside the warehouse at the waterside door—I went down there and Wickers was standing in his barge by the water-side door—I said, "What are you for?"—he said, "110 barrels of flour"—the barge was quite empty then, not a sack of corn in it—I am quite sure there was not twenty-two sacks of oats in it at that time—our sacks are not allowed to be used by other people—I have seen these twentytwo sacks produced—they are our property—these are two of them (produced)—some are marked "John Raymond and Son," some "Brown and Young," and some "Young and Raymond," our present firm—I and my son and Mr. Young succeeded to the late firm.
Cross-examined by MR, SHARPE. Q. The George is the name of the barge Wickers had got? A. I believe it is—she has a cabin to her—I should say it extends six or seven feet down the barge—there is what is called the head sheets at the fore part of the barge—that is rather smaller than the cabin—there is not the same height—I should say the barge is about fifty feet long altogether—fifteen feet is as much as these two places would occupy—I did not see the barge after that during the day—we do not send our sacks out; we make it a practice never to lend them to any one—when we have an order we deliver in our own sacks.
The prisoners received good characters,
MESSENGER, BATES and MOSS— NOT GUILTY .
WICKERS— GUILTY of Receiving.—Recommended to Mercy on account of his character. — Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months. Before Mr. Justice Willes.
MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
DAVID JOHN LEMOOR (Policeman, A 464). I was on duty in New Kent-road on the morning of 28th July, about half-past 3 o'clock—I saw a man stoop at No. 7; he struck a match at the side-post of the door—that one did not light—he struck another, which did light—he turned round immediately, and the door was all on fire—he then ran away, and I followed him to No. 14, about ten yards from the place where the door was on fire—he went into No. 14 and slammed the door in my face—I knocked at the door for some minutes, and the prisoner came to the door and said, "Who is there?" I said, "Police; open the door; I want to come in"—he made no reply, but walked back again—I continued to knock for I suppose a minute or two, and he came again and opened the door—I said to him, "Who was that man that has just come in here?" he said, I don't know; no one, that I am aware of"—I said," It is very strange, I just saw a man at the Fishmonger's shop, and he ran in this house"—he said, "No one came in here that I am aware of"—I said, "It is very strange—this house smells of the very same kind of stuff that the house was set on fire with"—he was dressed in the same clothes he has now on—he went up stairs and I followed him to the back room, which is his bed-room, and on the bed I found this waistcoat—the prisoner said, "That is my waistcoat, give it me, I want to put it on"—I found it quite wet, and it smelt of the same stuff that the house was set on fire with—it smelt like naptha—I said to him, "No; I shall keep this waistcoat, and also take you in custody"—I took him in custody—I had no further conversation with him in going to the station; but in going from the station to the Court he said to me, "I would rather be in custody for this than I would for felony"—I said, "This is a felony"—he said, "What I mean is, I would rather be taken for this than I would for stealing anything"—I said, "It is a very bad case, I would rather be in custody for stealing than I would for this crime"—he said, "I only merely did it to frighten, not with the intention to set the house on fire—only to frighten him as he has been taking some of my customers away."
Cross-examined by MR. LILER. Q. Had you been on that beat any time? A. No; I think not for twelve months—I don't know how long the prisoner had lived there—I know he lives there, and is a greengrocer—I know greengrocers often get up early in a morning to go to market.
MR. LEWIS. Q.M Did you observe outside the house, No. 14, any preparation for going to market? A. None whatever.
CHARLES HEWINGTON (Policeman, A 498). I was on duty in the New Kent-road about 3 o'clock on 28th July—I saw the prisoner standing between the house No. 7 and the Walworth-road—he then went to the house No. 7; I saw him strike something on the door-post, which appeared to me to be a lucifer-match—after he tried to strike the match I immediately ran to the place and the door was all on fire—it was under the bottom of the
door—I have since found it was naptha that was burning, and this bottle of naptha I found in the letter-box in the door—I sprung my rattle, and rang the bell at the door, and sent for the engines—the fire was out before the engines came—the fire was inside the door, there was a piece burnt about six inches wide—the mass of fire was inside the door—the fire flared up to the ceiling—this is the door (producing it)—the letter-box is about the middle of the door—the inside is very much burnt.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know the prisoner before? A. Yes; I have known him some time; I suppose twelve months, or it may be more, by seeing him in his shop, nothing more—I know he carried on the business of a greengrocer—when I saw him that morning I was about as far off him as to the end of this Court—it was not very light—it was just break of day, not very light at that time in the morning—I don't know what time the sun rose that morning—I was on the same side of the way as the prisoner was; he had passed me previously.
Cross-examined. Q. Where were you? A. I was with the last witness; when we saw the fire, we both ran up—I had known the prisoner by seeing him in his shop—I have known him more than twelve months—for anything I know, he bore the character of a respectable well—conducted man.
THOMAS BUNTING (Policeman, P 240). I went to the house No. 14, in the New Kent-road on the morning of 28th July—I looked in a shed there and found a shirt and a coat; they smelt strongly of the stuff found in the letter-box at No. 7—this is the coat; I have seen the prisoner wear it.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen the prisoner wear this coat? A. Yes—I can swear to seeing it three times, and speaking to him with it on—I have known the prisoner in that neighbourhood; not personally more than a mouth—I know this coat by the wear of it; the sleeve being mended, and by the make of it.
RICHARD HENDERSON . I am a fireman of the London Fire Brigade—I was called to the house No, 7 in the New Kent-road—when I got there the flames were extinguished—the door was in the state it is now—the clip of the letter-box is slightly charred, and the paint of the door comes off; the letter-box is fastened to the door.
COURT. Q. How did they get to you? A. Underneath; there was a floor between us—a line drawn from my bed to the top of the flames would be about six feet.
MR. LILLERY. Q. You were roused by the knocking at the door? A. Yes; and I came down—I knew the prisoner by living in the neighbourhood ever since I have been there, about twelve months—I never had any quarrel with him, and, as far as I know, there was no quarrel with any member of my family—there is an oil warehouse between my house and his—as nearly as I can guess his house is eighteen or twenty yards from mine; there are two small shops between—I am a fishmonger—I do not get up early in a morning to go to Billingsgate; my wife generally goes—persons generally go early to Billingsgate, not persons who sell dry fish.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you had any quarrel with the prisoner? A. No, nor any of my family—I was not on speaking terms with him, I never
spoke to him—I occasionally get up early to go to market; I did net get up early that morning—I sometimes get up at 7 o'clock or at 6 o'clock.
Tlie prisoner's statement before Hie Magistrate was here read as follows:—"What I did was not to burn the house or to hurt the persons, it was through Mrs. Phillips telling some person who was buying fruit at my shop that their shop was the best."
The prisoner received a very good character.— GUILTY.—Recommended to Mercy by the Jury.
Four Years' Penal Servitude.
The Court directed a reward of 5l. to David John Lemoor.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Month.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and BEST conducted the Prosecution.
JULES DE GILLY . I am a merchant dealing principally in silk plash; I carry on business in London at 86, Upper Stamford-street—I have also a business in Paris, at 9, Rue Chaveleau—the prisoner, Woillez, was clerk in my employ in April last, and had been so for about nine months previous to that time—he had to keep my books, to be careful about the goods when I was not there, and to furlough the orders that were transmitted to him from France, and to carry out my directions—I kept at this office in Stamfordstreet, a stock of silk plush—he had no authority from me at any time to sell any of it—I left London on 15th April—previous to leaving I had a stock of silk plush in my office in Stamford-street—it was worth about 1,830l.; that was the cost price—I left that all safe on the premises when I left London—I returned to London again on 22d May, in consequence of a telegram which I received on 26th April; in consequence of my engagements I could not come back till the 22d May—on my arrival in London I went to my office in Stamford-street; I did not find my silk plush there, it was all gone—in consequence of some inquiries that I made I went to the premises of Mr. Soloman Abraham Hart, in Bury-street, St. Mary Axe—I there saw some silk plush that was my property—my tickets were on it—that was the silk plush that was safe before I left England—I know Hart now; I had never seen him before that time—I never gave Woillez or anybody else any authority to dispose of that silk plush to Hart—I was at the police-station in Tower-street, Lambeth, when woillez was brough there on 30th July—I saw him and he said, "I am guilty, I am very sorry for it; take pity on myself and my wife"—I have since received these two letters from him (produced)—they are in his handwriting—when silk plush came into my office in England from Paris, it was the duty of Woillez to enter it in a stock-book—I have that stock-book here—I also keep an approbation book—when goods were sent out to persons to look at, it was
the duty of Woillez to enter these goods in the approbation book—these goods were entered in the stock-book by Woillez—they were never entered in the approbation book by him—they were not entered in the stock-book as sold to any one—there is an entry as having come in, but not as having gone out—when I give an invoice to a customer of mine I always state in it all the numbers and yards of pieces of plush, and then all the prices of each piece—Woillez was in the habit of making out these invoices in that style—he never made an invoice while in my employ up to the time he left, without doing that, stating all the prices and so on—on Saturday, 7th July last, I accompanied Jones, a police-officer, to the lodging of the prisoner Bliss—I saw him there; he was charged in my presence—the police-constable said he charged him with being the accomplice in a robbery and stealing about 6,000 yards of goods, my property—he mentioned Woillez's name—Bliss said to me in French, "I know, Mr. Gilly, you are very unlucky to lose your goods; but I cannot do anything, it is not my fault"—he repeated several times, "I know it is very unlucky for you"—I then asked him if he knew Mr. Woillez for any length of time—he told me he had known him a year—I asked him if he knew Mr. Soloman Abraham Hart of Bury-street—he said, "I have known Mr. Hart all the time I have been in London, ten years; Mr. Hart would not see me in this embarrassment and trouble even if it cost him 5,000l"—I answered him that he was very lucky to have such friends—he was then taken from his lodging to the station-house; I there gave a charge against him to the inspector—I did not appear against him on that charge before the Magistrate, because I was in the Court of Common Pleas—I had an action there; that was the action of Gilly against Hart—I did not appear at the hearing before the Magistrate, because I was appointed for 10 o'clock in the morning, and I only left the Court of Common Pleas about half-past 5, or something like that, so that I could not keep my appointment.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD (for Bliss.) Q. You say you went to take Bliss in custody on Saturday the 7th? A. Yes—the case of Gilly against Hart was appointed for the Monday morning—I did not know that Bliss was going to be examined as a witness on behalf of Mr. Hart—I mean to swear that—the effect was that he was left in custody until, my not appearing, he was discharged—when I took him in custody, I knew I should have to appear against him as a witnssss—the officer did not tell me that I must appear on the Monday morning—he did not give me any notice of what time I should be required to appear before the Magistrate on that morning—I knew at that time that the trial of Gilly against Hart was fixed for Monday morning—I did not know that Bliss was kept for a considerable part of Monday in custody before he was discharged; I did not know anything about it—I said that if I took a man in custody, I would take the responsibility of that taking him in custody—I did not inquire what had become of the man whom I had given in custody—I supposed that if I could not go there on the Monday, my solicitor could ask the Magistrate to remand him till the day after—I sent my solicitor to ask for a remand—I don't know whether he is here to-day—the first time I saw Bliss after I had given him in custody, was on the Monday; it was not on the Tuesday—the trial lasted two days—he was examined on the Monday; I am certain of it—I did not give the policeman instructions not to allow Mr. Bliss to communicate with Hart; I am sure of that—Woiliez was iu my employ nine months, beginning, I think, about last August—there was not a person of the name of De Jardin in my employ before Woillez, in the same
capacity; nor a person of the name of Westley, not at that time; there was before—I had De Jardin about three, years since—the very first day I took my house in London, De Jardin was with me; about two or three years afterwards I took Westley with De Jardin—I kept Westley perhaps six or seven months, or something like that, and I dismissed him in the month of April or May, 1859—I always kept De Jardin with me; and in August, three or four months after I dismissed Westley, I took Woillez—De Jardin was always with me—he is not in my employment now; I did not dismiss him, he left me at the end of August, 1859—Westley and De Jardin had not authority to sell without consulting me, more particularly Westley, who was a traveller going to collect orders—my house was a French house—the authority of De Jardin was decidedly larger than the authority of Westley, but he had not authority to sell without consulting me—I did not say in the Court of Common Pleas, that both Westley and De Jardin had authority to sell on my behalf, or if I did say so or something like that, there has been probably a false interpretation, because I only could say what was true—they had not authority to sell without consulting me, and I think they never did so.
Q. Did you not, in the Court of Common Pleas, draw a distinction between the form in which Woillez was employed by you and that of the other two, and say that the other two had authority to sell, but that he had not? A. No; I could not have said that, and if it was understood so, it must have been a mistake—I never gave the authority to our clerks—Woillez's education allowed him to write a letter with an autograph, and Westley could not—I think Woillez was a person of superior education to Westley—I always corresponded between my London house and my Paris house—I wrote a letter from my house in Paris, and Woillez had authority to open it—my clerk, like Mr. Woillez, was the only person who had authority to open it—from February till April, I corresponded with my London house—Woillez was the person who was attending to the business of my London house from February till April, 1860—I expected and intended him to open the letters and attend to the business—I received several letters from him with reference to the pecuniary position of the house—they are here, I have got a machine copy of them in a book—I have also got the letters which I wrote to the house; they are here too (MR. GIFFARD here called for the letters, and put them in as his evidence)—I have in my book a letter of 27th August, 1859, from Woillez to me—it is a letter by De Jardin, and here is a letter of 19th December 1859, from Woillez to me (The witness read the letter in French, and Mr. Albert the interpreter translated it, as follows: "I have received your letter of the, 17th instant, and I received yours of the 18th. Be persuaded that I regret as much as you do yourself, perhaps more than yourself, that I have not sold any goods, or anything, during your absence, but that it is not my fault, I do the best I can for you, but business is very bad at this moment, and particularly for us; besides, this is not the month to sell; almost everybody postpones giving orders till January next. De Jardin is not more lucky than I am; since the plushes have arrived he sent thirty pieces on approbation, but not one has been sold yet: with the fancy hats, I am not mote lucky; these are positively difficult to get a customer for, there are a great many of these hats in the market." The rest of the letter was not read, being considered immaterial)—here is the letter of 20th December, (Read in part: "I have received your letter of the 19th; I went four times to Mr. Hart to-day without being able to see him, and I waited for him
till half-past 5, and therefore must wait till to-morrow morning. I have no news yet about the paletôt, and I have not been able yet to obtain anything else than the goods from Ferrari: when you are in London, doubtless you will be more lucky than I am. De Jardin and I are both very much grieved by your reproaches, but against force there is no resistance; it is impossible to sell anything. I saw to-day Mr. Gilham, who is in London for some months; I did every thing in my power to sell him something, but he cannot take the Reynard plushes, he wants some plushes from the manufacturer, Martin, or none at all; and he will wait till you come back before treating with anybody about it; and this is the promise he has made to me. If the two pieces of plush that you are about to sell remain on the shelves, that will not be my fault either."
MR. GIFFARD. Q. When did you go over to France in consequence of a telegram? A. I received the first telegram on 12th April, in the night—I had then been in London three or four days—when I was in London before was perhaps four or five weeks before that—I was in London in December, 1859, and also in January, 1860—I think I was in February, 1860—I was in April, 1860, and I do not know that I was not in March—I was in London perhaps seven months altogether during 1859; six or seven months—sometimes I was in London two months or two months and a half—that has not been my mode of conducting my business since my establishment of what I call my London house—I altered it when I went to Stamford-street, which was in September last—there was never any pecuniary difficulty, about March or April, in meeting my engagements—I had heavy payments to meat in March, and my goods were left in France for some time to save the duty—Bliss was examined as a witness at the trial in the Court of Common Pleas, and Mr. Hart also—it was before a special jury and lasted two days—when Woillez talked about the crime he had committed, as I have mentioned, he did not say a word about being sorry he had not paid me the money—the money found on Woillez is in the hands of the police—I don't know whether or not I said to the police, "That is my money,"but I know there was money found on Woillez—I did not say it was mine—I am extremely clear; I did not.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. (for Woillez). Q. Was Mr. Sleigh your counsel at the police-court? A. Yes—I did not hear him apply to the Magistrate for the money to be given up as mine, for the proceeds of that sale—I cannot remember exactly the date of the letter that I wrote to my house in London, at the end of February, in reference to some pecuniary difficulties—it was the duty of the prisoner to make entries in a book—no goods were pawned by me; nor by my servants by my direction—no goods were taken to be pawned by my consent—I made entries of goods as sold—I was never in the habit of obtaining money by mortgaging or depositing my goods—I did not at any time deposit my goods and receive advances, nor any one by my authority, only once, at the end of February, when Woillez deposited some goods—I got the money, 130l., arising from that deposit—those goods that I deposited were twelve pieces of plush—they were afterwards redeemed—I do not know whether they form any portion of the plush which I now allege to be stolen; I think they do—I never authorised Woillez to pawn these pieces of plush—I never authorised him verbally—I have no letter in Court, I think, to show that I authorised him to pawn specifically those pieces of plush—I did authorise him in writing, to deposit those twelve pieces of plush—this is the letter in 'which I did so (Read: translated by Mr. Albert, ike interpreter: "From J. Gilly, to Mr. J. Gilly, London,
1st March, 1860.—I have received your letter of yesterday, and also the same with Sam's acceptance; what I foresaw has arrived, which proves that I am not deceived often; Sam has accepted, and the bank has refused his acceptance. Hereby I remit you a cheque from Spielman, which you will cash; make your account out to-day, you don't want more than about 120l.; perhaps I can send you some after to-morrow, but don't depend upon it: in any case if you find you can borrow from some friends the sum of which you are still in want, you can engage yourself to return it the following week at the latest. De Jardin will not refuse nor Sam either. I hope that I have said enough, that you may know what you have to do." The rest of the letter was not read)—I did not authorise him verbally.
COURT. Q. When you were told what he had done you approved of it? A. Certainly, I did approve of it—I put down the twelve pieces as goods sold, because, when I found that money had been borrowed at 10 per cent, per month, I was ashamed to see that done without my authority; being absent at the time—I afterwards got the goods and sold them.
MR. LEWIS. Q. You were not ashamed to take the money? A. I was—Woillez wrote to me that he had deposited twelve pieces of plush for one month, at 10 per cent.—I wrote to Woillez to ask if he had lost his head and his brains to do such a thing, and when I came back I took back the plushes, and repaid the 10 per cent. per month—I entered the deposit of these goods in my book as a sale.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had you received, when in Paris, a letter from him, dated 29th February, 1860? A. I did; and the letter just referred to was a reply to it (Read: "29th February, 1860—"We act badly. Not only have I had a great deal of trouble to obtain the acceptance of Sam, but the bank refuse to discount. Enclosed are the two bills. If I must employ means to obtain money on the plush, send me at least your authority; one word from you will be sufficient, without it I cannot do anything.")—The other letter was that by which I gave him authority—he never had any general authority from me to pawn or sell my plush without first informing me and getting my sanction.
Q. Then did you get from him, on 2d March, another letter in reply to yours, in these words: "I could, with much trouble, obtain from one House which makes advances, a loan of 130l. on twelve pieces of plush of low quality, and I will send you the numbers to-morrow; but I have had to sign an engagement to return the amount in a month with 10 per cent., and therefore the agreement has been signed for 143l."—is that the transaction of which you were ashamed? A. I was—I had no notion when I authorised him to borrow 100l., that he was going to do it at 120 per cent, per annum—supposing he found a customer for plushes, he had no authority to part with them without first telling me the name of the customer, and getting my approbation to sell to him—the name of Hart has been mentioned in one of those letters; that is not Mr. Solomon Hart—it is another person altogether, a good friend of mine.
COURT. Q. Do you know about anything being cut off this letter (showing a letter)? A. I wrote that letter, and when I came back I found the letter on my premises cut in the manner in which it is now.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Can you remember what was there? A. I don't know what it was—I did not cut it—I did not copy my letters in Paris by a machine.
COURT. Q. When you write from Paris, to the house in London, do you keep the copies? A. No, I do not.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You cannot tell anything about it except that you found it in that state? A. No, I cannot—I did not copy letters on any occasion, when I wrote them in Paris—I have not produced any to-day, copied, because I did not copy them.
ALEXANDER OWEN CHRISTIE . I am a short-hand writer—I attended, professionally, the Court of Common Pleas, on the trial of the case of De Gilly v, Hart, which was tried there on 9th and 10th July, in the present year—upon that trial the prisoner Bliss was examined as a witness, on the part of the defendant Hart—that was on the Tuesday—I saw Bliss there on the Monday; he was brought into Court several times for the purpose of identification—he was there both days, but was examined on the Tuesday—I was in Court at the commencement of the case—Mr. Huddlestone applied to the Lord Chief Justice for a rule to postpone the trial, on the ground that a material witness had been taken into custody on the previous Saturday night (there were only certain portions of the trial written out; the whole was that written out) the trial was not postponed—Mr. Edwin James undertook not the solicitor for the plaiutiff should go over to the Southwark police-court, and that the prisoner should be discharged, that he might have an opportunity of appearing on the part of the defendant, sooner than that the trial should be postponed—to the best of my belief Mr. Gilly, the plaintiff, was in Court and remained there all day—he was examined—I took notes of the examination of Bliss—(the examination of Bliss was here read.)
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You find there, do you not, a sergeant of police mentioned, as being present? A. Yes; I think he was not examined—the witnesses that were examined were Mr. Gilly and the porter Davis; there were several witnesses as to the price and quality of the plushes—Mr. Hart, Mr. Bliss, and Mr. Sydney, the solicitor for Mr. Gilly, were examined—I think I can say that Mr. Sydney is not here to-day—I took a short-hand note of all the trial; the plaintiffs and defendant's case, and the summing-up of the learned judge—the portion that I wrote out, I wrote at Mr. Sydney's instruction—I wrote out Mr. Hart's evidence, Mr. Bliss's evidence, Mr. Bernberg's evidence, and the summing-up of the Lord Chief Justice—the trial lasted two days—I think the jury had been sworn; and just as the trial was about to commence, the application was made by Mr. Huddlestone—I have not that part of my notes here—I fancy that Mr. Huddlestone did not come into Court till after the jury had been sworn—the Lord Chief Justice pronounced no decision one way or the other before Mr. Edwin James spoke—Mr. Edwin James said, that rather than have the trial postponed, he would consent to a habeas corpus, or that the prisoner should be discharged in order that he might have an opportunity of attending—the trial of Gilly against Hart was the very first in the list of Monday morning—I cannot say of my own knowledge that being a special jury cause it was specially appointed for that day—I know that it was the first in the list, and a special jury cause—the trial terminated about a quarter after 3 o'clock on Tuesday—there is no doubt that Bliss was not examined till the second day, Tuesday—Mr. Hart's examination terminated on the first day—it was not the latter part of the day when Bliss was brought into Court once or twice for identification; I think it was at various parts of the day—that was when Davis was being examined—I have only a portion of the notes here of Mr. Gilly's examination, I have a portion of his cross-examination—when I commenced this book it was in the middle of his crossexamination—I cannot tell whether I have that portion of his cross-examination which has reference to the authority given by Gilly—I cannot
possibly tell, without reading through the whole of it, whether I have here the cross-examination of Mr. Gilly with reference to De Jardin—I have not here the transcript of the Chief Justice's summing-up—there is a copy which I furnished to Mr. Spier—this (produced) is a correct transcript (MR. GIFFARD proposed to put in the transcript of the summing-up, but tlie Court was of opinion that it was not admissable)—I was present when the verdict was returned—it was for the defendant—it was in these words, "We find the verdict for the defendant, but we couple it with this, the jury consider that the defendant's system of making purchases without inquiry is highly reprehensible and pernicious in its effects on trade."
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you enter what is in that yourself? A. No.
MR. BEST. Q. Is the book kept under your eye? A. Yes; I see it from day to day—some of these entries are made in my presence—this one possibly is—this book is always lying on my desk; I have the charge of it.
COURT. Q. Is it kept in accordance with any rules of the Government which you represent? A. No; it is a record of the names of the persons to whom passports are granted.
MR. BEST. Q. You keep all those books? A. Yes; regularly.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you see this book on 25th April? A. I have no doubt I did; I see it every day—the entry is made by the Consul-Generai himself—he is in England—I doubt whether he can be brought here to-day—I cannot say that I issued a passport myself to Charles Bliss—I know nothing of my owu knowledge of what occurred on that day with respect to the name of Charles Bliss and the passport, irrespective of this book—I can only say from looking at the book that the passport was issued by the Consul-General.
COURT. Q. Supposing that that passport was made for Mr. Giffard, and at the last moment Mr. Giffard had been called away and the Consul-Generai had put the passport in his pocket, then would it still have appeared in the book that the passport was issued? A. In that case we should have erased the issue.
THOMAS WYNNE WALKER JONES . I am chief clerk to the associate of the Court of Common Pleas—I remember a trial taking place there between March and July last—I produce a cheque for 1,150l. on Prescott and Co, also an invoice for 139 pieces of plush; these documents are marked "A" and "B"—they were impounded by the Lord Chief Justice at the trial, and have been in my possession ever since.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. At the request of Mr. Edwin James they were left in your possession? A. They were.
COURT. Q. Was the word "impounded" used? A. It was used by Mr. James (Cheque read: "April 25th, 1860; Messrs. Prescott and Grote pay 4176, or bearer, 1,150l." Signed, "S. A. Hart." Invoice, "Messrs. S. A. Hart, London, 25th April, 1860; 86, Upper Stamford-street, Blackfriaras-road; bought of J. Gilly, 139 pieces of plush for 1,200l.; discount for cash 50l.; by cheque, 1,150l." Signed, Gilly.")
MR. SLEIGH. to J. GILLY. Q. Is that in the writing of Woillez? A. It is, and likewise the indorsement of that cheque—this is not the ordinary kind of invoice which is given in the sale of plush.
MARY ANN DAVIS . I am the wife of William Davis, a porter—he lives on the premises, 86, Upper Stamford-street—I act as housekeeper there to Mr. Gilly—I have lived there since last September—Woillez came to live there in October, and resided there from that time up till April with his wife and two children—he was acting as clerk to Mr. Gilly there—Mr. Gilly was
in England in April last; I think ho left on the 15th, Sunday—Woillez was living in the house at that time—I remember him coming into the house on Monday afternoon, 23d April—the prisoner Bliss was with him—I saw them come in; it was about five minutes to 5 o'clock—they went into the ware-house in the office there—they left about twenty minutes past 5, both together—Woillez did not return to the house that afternoon; he came and looked down the area to give a letter for the post—he then went away, and I saw nothing more of him till the following morning—next evening, Tuesday, I heard a knock at the door at 7, or it might be after 7—I went to the door, and found Bliss there—he said, "Is Mr. Woillez at home?"—I stepped to the back of the door, and pulled the bell for Mr. Woillez—there is a behpull there which goes on to a landing on the second floor—when I heard the door open on the second floor, I called and said, "Mr. Woillez is wanted"—Bliss was then close to me—Woillez came down stairs, and on seeing Bliss, he said, "Well, Charley," or, "How are you, Charley?" I could not say which—I understood Bliss to say, "We are waiting"—Woillez then went up stairs, put on his hat and coat, and they both went out together—Woillez was not gone very long—he returned by himself—I did not see him come in, but I heard him let himself in with the key—I remember a cart arriving on the following morning, Wednesday—there were two men with it—the plush was carried out and put into the cart—Woillez was present during that time—I said, "Why, you are making quite a clearance"—he replied, "Oh, no; it will all come back again; I am sure they will not buy"—I don't remember his saying anything else just then—he afterwards called me to give me some orders, and he said he was going out about the plush, as the old gentleman that was there the day before did not know anything about it—he said, "That old man is just like a child stroking a cat; he puts it all the wrong way"—he said there would be some gentlemen there to meet him that morning—he left a letter to take somewhere, and he took the paper himself—he said, "I suppose I must take it, but it will be no use, you may be sure"—it was a blank invoice—he said, "They will offer me about half-a-crown a yard; it will sure to come back to-morrow"—he then left, and returned at ten minutes to 3 in the afternoon—a Paris letter arrived for him in his absence—I put it on his desk; I saw him open it—he said that Mr. Gilly had had some goods detained at the Customs at Boulogne, and then he took the letter up as though he were translating to me, and he said "Mr. Gilly says,' if I cannot ascertain at the Customs here, I must go to Boulogne at once, or it would be condemned if it was not claimed before Friday,' that is, the goods"—I said, "I suppose if you go to Boulogne you will take Madame with you, as she wants to go"—by "Madame" I meant Mrs. Woillez—he said "Oh! no; the weather is very bad, and I cannot be troubled with two children"—he then went out, and returned again at half-past 7, and said he was going by the half-past 8 o'clock train to Boulogne—his wife was then present; he said to her in my presence, "Are you ready?"—she said, "I will be ready in a few minutes"—they both went up stairs—at a quarter past 8 they both left in a cab; Madame Woillez, the two children, and Mr. Woillez—they took one black trunk, a small square box, and a bundle—I saw nothing of them afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD Q. Were you at home when Mr. Hart's cart came for the plush? A. I was—that was about 10, or it might be a few minutes before 10 in the morning—I did not see the name on the cart—I did not go outside—it was not my business to see whether there was a name on the cart; I did not see it—my husband attended to that part of the business—he is here to-day.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you see Woillez, when the cart was there, taking the plushes out to it? A. He was there when the plushes were taken out.
WILLIAM DAVIS . I have been for some years porter to Mr. Gilly—Woillez was his clerk—on 15th April Mr. Gilly was obliged to leave England suddenly in consequence of the death of his mother—when he left there was a large stock of plush left on the premises—it consisted of 139 pieces—when Mr. Gilly left London, the persons left there were Woillez, his wife, who was allowed to live with the children, on the premises; myself and my wife—on Monday, 23d April, Woillez told me there was a gentleman coming to look at some plush, and that he was coming to-morrow morning—on Tuesday, 24th, a gentleman came about 10 o'clock in the morning—that gentleman was Mr. Hart, the gentleman who is standing in Court now—I was about my usual work, and I heard a knock at the door; I turned and opened the door—the gentleman said, "Mr. Gilly?" said, "Mr. Gilly is not here"—as soon as the knock was given at the door Mr. Woillez began to descend down stairs—he said, "Good morning, sir," and showed Hart into the warehouse, where they stopped, I think, twenty minutes; not more than half an hour—I saw Hart look at some of the stock of 139 pieces of plush—there were about fifteen pieces; apparently taken out of the stock to be looked at—I have been three or four years in the business—the stock varies in quality—every piece must be looked at before a gentleman can form an opinion on it—when Mr. Hart went away Woillez showed him out—I did not hear what passed between them—during the Tuesday, Woillez said that the gentleman was a large buyer of plush, and was going to have the bulk of the goods on the premises, so that he might have a few friends to look at them—next morning, about 10 o'clock, a cart was driven up to the door, a couple of men attending—I saw written on the cart, "S. A. Hart, St. Mary Axe, Houndsditch" or something of that sort—I opened the door to the men with the cart—Woillez was up stairs—he came down directly I opened the door—he said, "It is all right, get down the plush"—it is not usual to have the plush put in in bulk, without being checked off or something of that sort—I got them down, and I said," Mr. Woillez, shall I call them off?"—he said, "No; it is no matter now, as I am not dressed"—he said he could check them out of the book—there is a book kept called an approbation book—he said, 'Ton need not mmd that now"—the 139 pieces were then taken and put in the cart, I assisting, and Woillez directing; and then it was driven away—I had occasion to go out almost immediately afterwards—I think I went out before Woillez—I got back about a quarter-past 3 in the afternoon—as I was coming back, towards Stamford-street, I met Woilles in a cab between Blackfriare-bridge and Stamford-street-the stopped me—he asked me how I got on with my business—he asked me if I would get a glass of ale; I said, "Thank you"—when we got to the Cross-Keys public-house he pulled out a Paris letter he said, "Here, look; the property that you packed has been stopped by the Customs"—I had packed a case of property—I cannot read French—he read what appeared to me to be a translation; he had it in his hand—he said that he was then going to the Customs—I said, "There is no use in that"—he said, "I shall do as Mr. Gilly told me; I shall go to the Customs; I shall—go to Boulogne to-night; if I am not there by Friday the goods will be condemned"—he had still the letter in his hand while he was saying this about what Mr. Gilly had told him—I took that as the instructions which Mr. Gilly had given him in the letter—I said, "How about the plush T he said, "I have nothing to do with it; Mr. Hart has telegraphed to Mr. Gilly, offering him 4s. 6d., a yard for the
bulk; do you think he will take it?"—I said, "Well, I don't know; the price is very low, and there are many good plushes amongst them"—he said, "Well, I have nothing to do with it; it all rests with Mr. Gilly and Mr. Hart"—I got home to Stamford-street about 4 o'clock—about 8 o'clock that evening, or a little after, he left the establishment in Stamford-street, taking with him his wife and children—there had been a habit of having a letter from Paris every day—as he was going out I said to him, "How about the Paris letter?" he said, "Oh; there will be no Paris letter, Mr. Gilly knows I am going"—as I was going to bed my wife drew my attention to the doors being open—I turned into the room and my attention was turned to the grate, where there was a large quantity of burnt paper—next morning a Paris letter did arrive, and the prisoner having told me that none would arrive I opened the letter myself—not knowing French myself, I got it translated by a person who does know French—the letter was translated to me, and in cousequence I went to Mr. Sydney, the solicitor, and he telegraphed to Paris—I did not see him do so, but I saw the telegraph dispatch written out—this letter, dated the 25th April, is in Mr. Woillez's handwriting (This letter was here read, it was addressed to Mr. Gilly, acknowledged the receipt of a cheque for 1551. which arrived too late for him to deposit it in the bank; it referred to matters of ordinary business, but made no reference to the plush)—I went with Mr. Sydney the solicitor to Mr. Gilly, to Mr. Hart's premises that very day—I myself did not see the 139 pieces of plush on his premises at all.
Cross-examined by MR. GRIFFARD. Q. What are you? A. A porter; I move parcels and pack things in the carts which ought to be packed, that is my duty—my salary is 25s. a week—I might be asked my opinion on the goods, but examining them formed no part of my duty—the goods were ordered, and came from Paris—I had no direct communication with the head of the house in Paris—in consequence of my suspicions I communicated with Mr. Sydney—that was on the 26th—I don't know the day of the month when I first saw Mr. Gilly in England after that communication—I should say it was about the middle of the month—to the best of my recollection it was the 15th—I can't undertake to say that it was not the 25th—I have no memorandum—it may have been the 22d—I was examined in the Court of Common Pleas, and I believe I told the same story there as I have told now—I saw the name and address of Mr. Hart on the cart—it might be about 11 o'clock before the cart went away—it was some considerable time packing, and went away about 11 o'clock—the two porters that came with it drove it when it went away, Mr. Hart's men, I suppose—I did not know they were Mr. Hart's men—I knew that they were the persons that came with the cart that had Mr. Hart's name on it—I have seen Mr. Gilly buy a very great deal of plush, and I have seen another gentleman buy a great deal of plush—I never sold plush myself—I was never called upon by my duty to inspect the quality of plush, and to see how it ought to be sold—I did not consider my opinion worth anything—I never saw this letter (produced) before, that I know of—I don't know it—I never did see it before—I have read it—I was told of such a letter being sent to Mr. Hark—Mr. Hart told me so; I met him—I went to the Falcon Tavern, about 8, or a little after—I wore light trousers and a black coat, and did through all the summer—Mr. Hart offered me money to give evidence, and after that I told him that I could give him important information (The Court ruled that this evidence was not relevant.).
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. Did any one come with the cart beside the carters? A. I only saw two men—there was only the carters, and Woillez, and myself—Woillez ordered me to get the plush down.
JOHN MATHIAS BACH . I am engaged as manager of the Hotel de I'Europe, at Hamburg—I am the commissionaire of the hotel—both the prisoners were there on 28th April—they stayed till 3d May—they came together, and went away together—there was also a lady and children there—the prisoners' names that they gave were Mr. Bliss and Mr. Dignez de Rochez—they left the hotel and went somewhere—they were going to Harbourg, on the road to Vienna—nobody said so, but they went there in a carriage, and came back again, and afterwards went to Eppendorf—I saw ft great deal of money with them—I cannot say how much.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You are not the proprietor of the hotel? A. No; I am the commissionaire—Woillez asked for a commissionaire—he was then at the Hotel de l'Europe—that was the place I first saw them at; in the room No. 85—I spoke to one of the gentlemen, and two rooms were ordered; 78 and 85—that is ray only reason for supposing they came together—I attended on Woillez, and went out with him in the carriage, to write for him—that was on Sunday, the 29th.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. When did you first hear the name of de Rochez? A. I never heard it.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is there any book kept at the hotel in which people enter their names? A. Yes; the travellers write their own names in the book—that was how I knew their names to be de Rochez and Bliss—I heard them talk to each other while they were there—they appeared like intimate friends—they lived and ate together at the same table—I did not hear any name by which they called one another.
HENRY GEORGE CHAPMAN . I am clerk to Messrs. Prescott and Co. bankers—this cheque was presented at our bank on 25th April last—I think I can recognise Woillez as one of the persona that came; there was another person with him at the time—I cashed the cheque in seven 100l. notes, and 450l. in gold—this entry is in my own hand-writing—the numbers of four of the 100l. notes are 57,753, 57,754, 57,755, and 57,756—the other three are 58,711, 58,712, and 58,713—they are all dated 24th September, 1859—the cheque was debited in the name of S. A. Hart—it was produced at the trial—one of the men had light hair, light beard, and moustache; I think that was Woillez—the man with him I cannot identify.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Mr. Hart has large transactions with you? A. Yes; he keeps an account with us—this amount was not unusually large; we have paid such amounts before—he does a large business—I cannot say to what amount; I did not think to look—I should say, in all probability, from 100,000l. to 200,000l. a year—I don't know that I am correct in stating that.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Within the last five or six years I am afraid you have had to come into this Court with regard to cheques of Mr. Hart? A. I have not—I do not know that anybody else from our place has.
RICHARD ADYB BAILY . I am clerk in the Bank of England—I produce seven 100l. notes—they are the numbers which the last witness has just given—it is required that they should be indorsed before they are changed—they were changed at the Bank of England on 25th April for smaller notes—the person is here who gave the change—the name, "Charles Barber and Company, 5, Salter's Hall Chambers," appears on every one of the seven notes—they were changed for twenties and fives—there were twenty 20l. notes, numbers 59,380 to 59,399 inclusive, dated 21st January, 1860, and sixty 5l. notes—I believe most of these small notes have been returned to the Bank of England—the numbers of the 5l. notes are 31,906 to 31,915
inclusive, and 31,951 to 32,000 inclusive, all dated 26th March, 1860—that makes the 700l.—numbers 59,383 and 59,381 bear the name of Charles Bliss—they are the only two twenties which bear that name—the third, number 59,380, has "Dignez de Rochez"—Mr. Cruse is the gentleman who gave those notes; he is here.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You are compelled to indorse bank note before getting it changed? A. It is required—we ask for it, but if we cannot get it, we refuse to change it, at our peril.
FREDERICK THOMAS CRUSE . I am a clerk in the issue department of the Bank of England—on 25th April I changed these notes which have been spoken to by Mr. Baily—I changed them for the notes which he has also indicated, of which he has just given the numbers—I have not the least recollection of the party—I cannot tell what time of day it was.
JOHANNA M'CARTHY . I am single, and live at 5, Windmill-street, Lambeth—I was employed in April last by Mrs. Woillez in cleaning apartments at 86, Upper Stamford-street—I was in her service the week before 24th April—I remember her sending me out, on the Monday before 24th April, to get some biscuits—I was sent away that evening rather earlier than usual, about 8 o'clock—I generally left at sometimes 10 or 11 o'clock—I went there the following morning at 8 o'clock; that was too late—I saw Mrs. Woillez then; she came out of the back room—I saw the husband in bed in the back room—she took the key out of her pocket and opened the front-room door—I saw the prisoner Bliss in the room, standing up—there was a pillow on the sofa—the sofa was just as though a man had been sleeping on it.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How does a sofa look when a man has slept on it? A. There was a coat underneath, and the pillow was down—the pillow was pressed as if a head had been lying upon it; it was a bed pillow—there is only one door iuto that room.
WILLIAM PALMER . (Polke-sergeant, L 2). On 26th April, from information I received, I made inquiries about Woillez—no result came of them till 19th June—in consequence of something I heard I proceeded to Hamburg on 20th June—I didn't find him there—I went on to Eppendorf, then to Berlin, then to Stettin, and then to St. Petersburg, where I arrived on Sunday, 8th July—on Monday, the 9th, I saw Woillez on the side of the river, walking with his wife and a young lady named Spince—I followed him; he went to Spmce's Hotel—I went there that evening, and saw him there then—there were three of the Russian police in the room at that time—Woillez was writing a letter to Prince Volitska—as he was writing I said to the Russian police, "That is Mr. Woillez?"—he got up and said, "I am not Mr. Woillez; my name is Dignez de Rochez"—I said, "How did you know that I was addressing you? there are other people in the room besides you"—he said, "Oh! you must have meant me"—I said, "Well, I did; whether you are Dignez de Rochez, or Woillez, you are the man that I have come for from London, on a charge of robbing your employer of 2,000l. worth of plush, and also of a large sum of money"—I told him his employer's name, Mr. Gilly, telling him at the same time that I Was an officer from London—he denied being the man—he then produced this passport (produced)—he said it was his—I told the police that I felt confident he was the man I had come for—he still denied it, and said that he should appeal to his Consul for protection—the French Consul came, and some conversation, which I did not understand, took place between the Consul and Woillez—the result of it was that Woillez was handed over to the Russian police—he was searched in my presence
—this gold watch and chain was first taken from him; that was all that was found on him—he was kept in custody—he was taken away from me—previous to his being taken away, the room was searched in his presence—in a drawer was this bag (produced) with 332 sovereigns in it, this breast pin, this necklace, two brooches, some ladies' jewellery and a silver watch (produced)—his wife was searched in my presence—on her were found 131 1/2 roubles, in Russian notes—I have not got them here—I changed them into English money, because it is against the law of Russia to bring Russian notes out of the country—there was also another gold watch and chain (produced)—I changed the notes into English money—I had to pay the prisoner's hotel bill, and some expenses out of that money—I had to use over 47;.—I had no balance of the Russian money—Woillez was then taken to the station—on the Thursday I went to the hotel again—I went to the drawers, took out his clothes and began to pack them up—behind the sofa, in the room that had been his, I found nine 20l. Bank of England notes, and twenty 5l. notes (produced)—on Saturday, the 14th, he was brought before the Russian police—I found a box in his room; that was fastened up—it was broken open on the Saturday—he very much begged not to have that box broken open till we got to England; and his wife also begged—it was broken open in my presence, and in the prisoner's presence, by the Russian police—there were several letters found in it—I believe they are upon the depositions, with the exception of this agreement—this receipt was found; dated, "Hamburg, May 3d, 1860;" it is a receipt for 200l., signed "Charles Bliss"—here is also a letter dated "Queen's Bench, Boro', London, May 26th, 1860"—there were also a great many private letters—the wife was present when this took place—upon the box being broken open, and the things found in it, Woillez fell down on his knees to his wife, and put his hands together, and asked her to forgive him for doing such an act—he said, "I am guilty; pray forgive me for doing such an act"—this was in French, but it was interpreted to me at the time by the interpreter that I employed—he afterwards spoke in English to my interpreter, saying that he would go with Sergeant Palmer to England—there was nothing else said, that I know of—up to that time he had denied being Woillez—he said on this day that he was Woillez, and would go with me; that was in English—he had, for four days previously, denied being Woillez.
MR. LEWIS. Q. Had he said before that, in English, that he was not Woilles? A. Yes; on the day that he was apprehended.
MR. BEST. Q. What else did he say? A. I don't recollect anything else—when I mentioned Mr. Gilly's name, he said, "Why do you talk to me, about Mr. Gilly's name? I do not know Mr. Gilly"—I spoke in English—on the Saturday I told him the prosecutor's name again, and then he said, he would go with me to England, and that he was guilty—I told him again on the Saturday, that he was charged with stealing 2,000l. of silk hat plush, also with embezzling 155l. and 30l. odd—I said that in English; I cannot speak anything else—I was afterwards allowed to bring him to England—on the voyage I had some conversation with him with respect to that receipt for 200l.—I asked him who was "J.C. Joly Firmin," and he said, I am"—I asked him if Bliss was with him in Hamburg—he said he was—he said that Bliss had had 200l. and that they were going in partnership—he told me that he had got a cheque for 1,150l. for the plush which he had sold—I brought him to London.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. What were the amounts you charged him with embezzling? A. 155l., 30l., and some odd shillings—the prosecutor
did not tell me to charge him with that exactly, any more than he did with the plush; I did it on my own responsibility.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. About the embezzlements; you had received all that information in England, from the solicitor's, before you went? A. I had.
LEON LOUIS DIGNEX DE ROCHEZ . I live at 5, Belgrave-terrace, Pimlico—this passport is mine—it was granted to me in London on 30th January, I know nothing at all of Woillez, only I left my passport in the house, three days before he ran away—when I came on the Saturday I did not find this passport where I left it; I left it on Woillez' mantel-piece—I had called there in Stamford-street to see Woillez—I did not lend or give him that passport or authorise him to make use of it—if I were to lend or give him a passport I would not be such a fool as to give him mine—this is my passport, and I did not give it or lend it to anybody.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. I suppose that your name is Leon de Rochez? A. Yes—(the passport was here read.)
JOHN WILLIAM MAY . I am Consul-General of the Netherlands—it is part of my duty to issue passports to persons who require them—here is in my book an entry on 25th April, in my writing; I find here an issue of a passport to a person of the name of Bliss, his wife, two children, and a servant to go to Belgium and Germany—it is usual for me to give it to the person myself—refreshing my memory by this I have no doubt that I issued such a passport on that day.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you know whether it was applied for some days before, and postponed in consequence of the absence of the form? A. That I can't say.
COURT. Q. You don't recollect the person to whom you issued it? A. No; Bliss is the more likely of the two—I think I have seen hiscountenance before in the office; I won't be certain of it.
(The articles of agreement were here put in and read: they were dated 8th May, 1860, by which Chas. Bliss and Jules Constant Joly Firmin agreed to enter into partnership as general commission merchants for three years, under the name of Chas. Bliss and Co. late Jas. Barber and Co.)
WILLIAM BROAN (Police-sergeant, L 1) I saw Bliss in custody at the Tower-street station on 7th July; he said he wished to write some letters; one to a Mr. Spier, his solicitor, another to Mr. Hart, and another to his wife—he did so—they were not all sent; two were sent, one to Mr. Spier and one to his wife—I produced the other at the police-court; this is it (produced)—I saw him write it (read: "Tower-atreet police-station, Waterloo-road.—Dear Sir.—Mr. Gilly of Stamford-street has arrested me to-night on a charge of being concerned in stealing a quantity of plush. I have written to Mr. Spier; pray come and see me. I am relying on you to see me all right. CHARLES BLISS.")—I have only seen the prisoner Write on that occasion—I should not like to swear to his handwriting; I can only give the best of my belief.
COURT. Q. You saw him write three letters? A. I did; I saw him sign them—I did not look at them enough to say conscientiously upon looking at another piece of writing, whether that is or is not his writing.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. From having seen him write three different letters in your presence, do you consider that you are competent to offer an opinion as to whether the papers that are put in your hand are in his writing? A. Yes; I think I can offer an opinion—I should not like to speak to it positively—I think that if I saw his handwriting I should be able to tell whether it was his handwriting or not—if a paper was placed in my hand without
his signature, I think I might not know it; I know his signature—I believe the signature to this receipt to be his—I have seen these two letters before, and I believe they are in his handwriting—to the best of my belief this name "Bliss" to this agreement is in the prisoner Bliss's handwriting—I believe these two signatures on the bank notes are his signatures.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Just look at this; do you believe it to be his handwriting or not? A. I think not; I have not looked at the body of the agreement; upon looking at it, to the best of my belief it is in Bliss's handwriting.
Q. Have you been comparing the different writings together since you saw him write? A. At the police-court—I had them in my hand at the time—that was the only time—that was the mode in which I formed my judgment whether they were in his handwriting, and from my knowledge of seeing him write at the station—the signature to this (another paper) is very much like Bliss's writing—I can't say that it is his—it is quite different to the others—I should not like to give an opinion without having the letters that I saw him write in my hand to compare them—it certainly is very much like his handwriting—there is a difference between this and the other which makes me hesitate to give an opinion—I remember being asked to look at a document at the police-court where I was examined as a witness—I said that it was very much like his handwriting—when it was folded up, aud only part of it given to me, I did not then say that I believed it was not his handwriting—I am quite sure of that—I remember being asked that question—I sent two of the three letters, one to Mr. Spier, and one to the prisoner's wife—the one to Mr. Hart I retained—I told the prisoner before he wrote it that I did not know that I should be able to send it, but I should consult the inspector when he came in—I saw Mr. Gilly in the evening when he came to the, station and wished for the service of a constable—Mr. Gilly, and Mr. Sydney, the solicitor, came to the station together—they saw me—the inspector was not there when they came first—they gave the instructions to take Bliss in custody, and also to procure an officer to accompany Mr. Gilly to a certain place at Chelsea—the inspector was then present—he-is not here to-day—his name is Byron.
BLANCHET WONTNER . I served two notices, of which these are duplicates, on the prisoner Charles Bliss—one was a notice to produce a passport, and the other to produce certain letters—the date of one is 9th August, and the other 14th August.
EDWIN HARDY . I am clerk to Mr. Murrell, auctioneer, of Walworth—as his agent I had the letting of some chambers at No. 5, Salter's Hall, in April last—I let them to the prisoner Bliss—previously to that they had been let to a person named Turner; he could not pay the rent, he disappeared—the name of Brown & Co. was made use of by him, and was painted up—I saw no Christian name—when I let the same rooms to Bliss that name was written up; he did not paint it out for some time—it was afterwards painted out during his tenancy—I cannot say whether, while Bliss was there, he conducted any ostensible business—I have seen him write, and have acquired a knowledge of his signature, nothing beyond that—I should not like to swear that the signature to this agreement is his—to the best of my belief I should think it is—I should think the signature to this receipt for 200l. is also his.
EDWARD BEAN . I live at 12, Castle-street, Borough market, and carry on business there as a basket-maker—I have known Bliss for some time—I have not seen him write, or become acquainted with his handwriting—I
have a bill and receipt of his—I saw him write this (produced)—I have not acquired such a knowledge of his handwriting as to enable me to speak to it—I am not a scholar at all—I saw him write this, and then I paid him the money.
Cross-examined. Q. What was this transaction with him? A. Eighty-one loads of basket rods—I do not know that he negotiated that sale and got a commission on it.
JOSEPH JONES (Policeman, L 151). On 7th July last I received instructions to apprehend Bliss—I went with Mr. Gilly to 16, Beaufort-street, Chelsea, and found Bliss there—I was in plain clothes at the time—I told him I was a police-constable, and that I took him in custody on a charge of being concerned, with another man not in custody, in stealing a quantity of plush, the property of Mr. Gilly, of 86, Stamford-street—he said, "You don't mean that?" I said, "I do"—he said, "I am innocent of that; you can't mean that you intend to take me in custody?" I said, "Yes, I must"—he said," Well, where are you going to take me to?" I said, "I am going to take you to Tower-street station, Portland-road"—he said, "Well, if you go on, I will give you my word, the word of a gentleman, that I will follow you"—I told him I did not do business in that way—I called Mr. Gilly in, and they had some conversation in French—I searched the bed-room and found ten sovereigns there, and several papers, stamped in the corner, "Barber & Co., Salter's Hall Court"—I found several letters written in a language which I could not understand—I likewise found some cards of different things, different pieces of paper with writing on them which I could not understand—on the way from Chelsea to the Tower-street station he took from his inside coat pocket a note—I saw that given back to him again by Sergeaut Broan at the Tower-street station—on the card was, "A well-wishing friend requests you to keep out of the way for two days"—I took him to the station, and on searching his coat pocket I could not find that note; but at the bottom of a cigar-case, closely packed, I found it—at the police-station he asked leave to write to Mr. Spiers—he did not ask in my presence to write to any one else—he was brought up to the Southwark police-court, and discharged in consequence of Mr. Gilly not attending—his papers were returned to him, and he gave a receipt for them—I subsequently received instructions to take him again—on 14th July I went to Beaufort-street—I did not find him there; he had left—I made inquiries in the neighbourhood, and after some time I traced him to 16, Rupert-street, Haymarket—he was not at home there; it appeared he only made a call there—I next went to the Sussex Hotel, London Bridge—from something that I heard there I watched the house one night and one day—I went to the house on Sunday evening, and engaged a bed-room there—about 8 o'clock that evening Bliss came in—this was 15th July—I took him into custody—I told him I was instructed to take him custody on a charge of being concerned, with a man named Woillez, then in custody, in stealing a quantity of plush—he said, "I am innocent of that; where is Woillez?" I said, "I expect he will be in this country on Thursday next"—Bliss said he was innocent—he did not at that time say anything more about Woillez—I searched his luggage, and found this envelope, with some other papers—he did not say anything at that time, when I told him there was a man in custody—on the way to the station he said he had only acted as an agent for Woillez, and he had received 60l. as his commission—I said, "It is a very bad job for you, but you must make the best of it;" he said, "It is a very bad job for me"—I said, "Have you known Woillez long?" he said, "I have known him
not long, about one year"—I asked him if he knew Mr. Hart—he said, yes, he had known him about ten years, ever since he had been in London.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. What time did you receive your first instructions to take Bliss into custody? A. About 7 o'clock on the evening of 7th July—that would be the Saturday evening—it was somewhere about 8 o'clock when I took him into custody—I was only an hour looking for him—I conveyed him from Chelsea to Tower-street police-station, Waterloo-road—I think that took us about forty minutes—I took him in a cab—it was not far from 9 o'clock at night when we got to the station—Mr. Sydney, the attorney, was not with us—he did not come there before I left the station—I was at the police-court on the Monday morning at 10 o'clock, but I never entered the witness-box—I have been a policeman about eleven years—I was acting under the instructions of the attorney, Mr. Sydney—I told him that I should have to be there at 10 o'clock—Bliss was brought up at 10 o'clock—it was about half-past 10, I think, as near as I can guess, when he was discharged—Mr. Sydney appeared there that morning before Bliss's discharge—at his request Bliss was discharged—he did not apply for a remand at all; he applied for his discharge—on 14th July I received the instructions to take Bliss in custody again—that was not from Mr. Sydney, it was from Mr. Gilly—I did not see Mr. Sydney that time.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. At the time you received instructions to take him into oustody on the second occasion, you had had a telegram that Woillez was arrested? A. No, I had not—I had not heard that he was arrested.
SOLOMON ABRAHAM HART . I have here a portion of 139 pieces of plush which I took into my possession on 25th April last—there are two pieces outside, and they form a portion of 139 pieces which Mr. Gilly has inspected on various occasions on my premises.
COURT. Q. They were all obtained by you from Woillez? A. Yes; I purchased them of him under the name of De Gilly, delivered by him, or by his orders, to my carman, and by the porter Davis, and then delivered to me at my premises in Bury-street, St Mary-axe—it was there, in Burystreet, that, at the completion of the delivery and purchase, I gave the cheque to Woillez for 1,150l.—this is it—I first saw Woillez about it on Monday, the 23d, at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, at Bury-street—then I saw him at 86, Stamford-street, at 10 o'clock on the morning of the 24th—then I saw him again at 3 o'clock the same day, Tuesday; and then I saw him again on Wednesday, the 25th, to pay him the money after examining the goods and counting them at Bury-street, St Mary-axe—the invoice was written in my counting-house, and signed, and the cheque indorsed by Woillez in the name of De Gilly—Bliss introduced Woillez to me—I did not hear anything said about a commission—I paid Bliss a commission, 5l. in my counting-house, on the same day.
(Two letters were here read at the request of Woillez. The first, dated "Sunday,"was from Woillez to Mr. Gilly, and contained several appeals to him for mercy, chiefly on account of his wife and family, and requesting that the money which would have to be expended on his own part for his defence, and on the part of Mr. Gilly in prosecuting him, might remain in the hands of Mr. Gilly, as part payment of his debt to Mr. Gilly. The second letter was as follows: Addressed to "J. Gilly, Esq. 86, Upper Stamford-street, Blackfriars (private)—Being the day before trial, and wishing to make you a
complete confession, I take the liberty to write you again. Believe as certain, Sir, that in everything which took place I have always been the iustrument and the victim of a swindler, who is to-day the cause of all my misfortune, and by whom I have been incited and advised. It is himself alone who has trained this business, and who made me conclude with Mr. Hart's connivance, and who had not the slightest doubt that he was not doing with Mr. Gilly. Before introducing me to Hart, Bliss had been to his office to settle this business with him; therefore Hart asked no questions. The fact is, that Hart and his clerk both together had recognised myself as your clerk, having seen me before when they went to Cannon-street to buy plush, and when De Jardin, with whom they had to do, said to them, in my presence, that Mr. Gilly was in Paris, and he will write to him about his offer—very evident proof that Hart was quite knowing that he had not to do with Mr. Gilly. It is by Bliss that anything have been made; he did all himself. I have followed wrong counsels, and I have fallen in the snare laid by him. He did assure me upon his word that in three weeks we could have the plush again and restore them, and then work as partners for ourselves. This deceived me to commit this fault, and without his counsels I should never have thought of doing such a thing. I have always been an honest man, bold, and good father of my family, always working to educate honourably my children; my antecedents are able to prove it. I am born of an honest family, and should never have done anything to dishonour it without the counsels of a man without any faith, heart, or honour, like Bliss. It is him who pressed me to leave London to go to Hamburg, where he ought to go with me on the 25th, but we missed the mail-train at 8 o'clock, and I took, with my wife, this one of half-past 8 for Dover; but not being able to take the luggage, Bliss was forced to remain till the morning, day after, and meet me at Ostend, from where we left the same day for Hamburg. He stays there with me ten days, Hotel de l'Europe, and thence to Eppendorf; he stops there some more time with me, and left to return to London, but he was not certain if he would go to see his father. He only writes to me about three weeks afterwards, telling that he was in the Queen's Bench, where he had been put by your order. I have received this letter at Eppendorf, and received there another, in which he said that I had to leave at once, because you knew where I was. Bliss has named on his passport, my wife and my two children, and also a maid. He went to have his passport on the 24th, afternoon, or 25th, morning, to the Consulate of Payrbas. Now you know what remains. This affair (will mean robbery) has been performed between Bliss, Hart, and me; and I do not doubt one minute to have been the dupe of those gentlemen, who well know all that passed. I have been unhappy enough to follow this bad advice. I have nothing else to do than to hope in your mercy and God. I have confidence that both together you have pity for me, my wife, and my poor children.")
(The prisoner Woillez, withdrawing his defence from Mr. Lewis, made his own address to the Jury in French, which was translated. After giving a detailed account of how he became acquainted with Bliss, he stated that Bliss proposed to him a scheme for obtaining money on the goods by depositing them, for a time only, with Mr. Hart, and that Bliss eventually introduced him to Mr. Hart; that he consented to follow the advice of Bliss, believing him to be an honest man; that the goods were deposited with Mr. Hart, who gave them a cheque for 1,150l., keeping 50l. as discount, and giving them six weeks to redeem the goods. He also stated that he was induced by Bliss to go over to the
Continent to be out of the way of meeting Mr. Gilly; and concluded by throwing himself upon the mercy of the Jury, and of the prosecutor, Mr. Gilly.
BLISS— GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
733. JOHN CONSTANT WOILLEZ was again indicted for stealing, on 19th April, an order for the payment of 17l.; on 20th April, an order for 30l. 17s. 6d.; and on 25th April, an order for 155l., of Jules de Gilly, his master; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Two Years.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES TYRINGHAM PRAED . I am a partner in the bank of Messrs. Praed and Co., Fleet-street. On 3d July, I believe, a little after 2 o'clock, a person, whom I now know to be Joseph Hunter, came to our bank and presented this cheque for 18l. 19s. 8d. (This was a cheque drawn by Miss Adelina Fane, in favour of Thomas Smalley, for 18l. 19s. 8d., dated 26th June.)—I asked him certain questions, which he answered, and then left the bank—my partner packed up a parcel for him; it did not contain money—I followed the person, and lost sight of him in Fleet-street—I went to the station-house in Fleet-street, and obtained the assistance of a police officer, and went with him to Blackfriars' Bridge—I followed the route which I thought Hunter had taken—at last, in Bartholomew-lane, I saw him—I waited about for about twenty minutes—after I had been standing there twenty minutes or half an hour, I saw the prisoner come to the corner of the street and beckon to Hunter, who was standing in the street; he went to him, and I heard the prisoner ask him if he had got the money for the cheque—he said, "Yes," and was just taking his pocket-book out of his pocket, and I laid hold of the prisoner, and said to Hunter, "Is this the man that gave you the cheque?—and he said, "Yes;" the prisoner only said, "Don't use me roughly," or something of that sort; I took hold of both his arms—he was taken into custody by the policeman.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. Didn't he say anything to you except, "Don't use me roughly"? A. He said he could explain the matter—he did not give me any explanation—I was not standing close to Hunter all this time—I was standing close behind the prisoner when he came up—I was about five yards, I should think, from Hunter—there were not many people passing.
MR. COOPER. Q. I believe it is just opposite the auction mart? A. Yes, it is a quiet place for London.
JOSEPH HUNTER . I live at 76, Nicholas-street, Hoxton, and am a porter—on 2d July, a little before 2 o'clock, I was in Throgmorton-street—the prisoner came up to me—he pulled a pocket-book out, and asked me if I would go and change this cheque (produced) for him. I agreed to do so, and he asked me how long I should be—I said I thought about three quarters of an hour; he said he wanted it in half an hour—I said could not do it—I said, "How will you have it?"—he said, "In gold;" he pointed, and said, "I will meet you down below"—that is what we call the tap—I then went to the bank, presented the cheque, and said something to the bankers—I then had a parcel given to me, and left the bank again, went to the place, and
went down below, but did not find him there—I came up again, leaving word where I was to be found if I was asked for—I walked about for some time, and then the prisoner came up—he called out quite loud, "I say, old chap, have you got that money?" I cried out, "Yes, come on"—I said, "Won't you come below?" meaning the place he had appointed to meet—he said, "No, give it me here;" I said, "Very well"—I took out the pocket-book, and had the parcel in my hand ready to give to him, and a gentleman came up and laid hold of me—the prisoner was then taken into custody.
Cross-examined. Q. He cried out, "Here, old chap, have you got the money?" A. Yes; making a great noise, so that everybody could hear him—he made no secret about it.
DANIEL QUILTER (City-police 346). I accompanied Mr. Praed on 3d July, to Bartholomew-lane, and the prisoner was given into my custody—I asked him what account he had to give of the cheque—he said, "I can produce the man who gave it to me to get it cashed;" I said, "Can you produce him now?"—he said, "No, I cannot; I can produce him in two or three days;" I then said, "You will have to go with me to the station"—at the station he gave me a description of that man—he said that the man who gave him the cheque was to meet him at the Weaver's Arms, Southgate-road, at 7 o'clock that evening—I went there at the time that he stated, and stayed there for between two and three hours, I should say, but could see no one answering the description that he gave—I searched the prisoner, and found on him two pocket-books, and a tobacco-box—I found three duplicates; two relating each to a gold chain—I asked him for his address; he refused it—he said he had known the person, whom he described to me, about four years—that was some other man that he told me the address of, who, he said, was present at the time the cheque was given to him—I did not go there.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not he afterwards give you his correct address? A. No; I did not myself know this person that he mentioned to me as having been present—I did not know there was such a person; I had never heard the name before—I believe there is such a man—the prisoner told me at the station that the man who gave him the cheque had another cheque for 5l. in his possession at the time—I do not know that that 5l. cheque was cashed at another bank that day; I know nothing about it—I don't know whether one of the 5l. notes that were stolen has been recovered since—I believe it has been found; traced up to a public-house at Hampstead—I did not find it.
COURT. Q. You say he gave you the address of a person, and you believe there is such a person; have you made no attempt to find him out? A. I believe there is such a person from what I have been told by my brother officers, who know the other person—no attempt has been made to find him—he is a man well known to the police.
THOMAS SMALLEY . I lived at 4, Stanton-place, Blackheath—I live now at Ipswich—I was formerly a butler—I received a cheque for 18l. 19s. 8d. from Miss Adelina Fane, on 26th June—On Saturday, 30th June, I took my portmanteau to the London Bridge Station—I was going by the train to Blackheath—I reached the station about twenty minutes to 5 on that day—the train that I was to go by was to start at 5—on reaching the platform of the North Kent line, I had with me a portmanteau, and three other parcels—I was standing close by them when the ten minutes to 5 train was leaving the station—I then went to get my ticket, leaving my luggage on the platform—I should not think I was away three minutes—when I came from the office, I looked to the spot where I had left my luggage—I turned round and saw it on one of the Company's trucks, but the portmanteau was not
there—search was uselessly made for it—there were three 5l. Bank of England notes, a cheque for 5l. on Cox & Co., two sovereigns, and two half sovereigns—those which I have mentioned are the subject of this indictment—they were placed in a match-box in that portmanteau.
Cross-examined. Q. What do you know about the 5l. cheque? A. Nothing further than that I went on the Monday morning to stop both the cheques—I have since received the amount of the cheque from Miss Fane—I have not heard whether the 5l. cheque has been paid or not—it had not been paid when I stopped it—I sent a messenger to the bank to stop the 5l. notes—the servant went to stop the cheque at Praed's, and I went to Cox's—when I came to the station on the Monday night, the policeman said there was a mistake about the note, and it was found that the note that they thought had been paid in, had not been paid in—two of my notes had not been paid then—I have since had a communication from the bank that two of them have been paid—I have not heard whether the third has been paid or not—I have not got the gold again, I have only got the amount of the 5l. cheque, and I have got a note to draw the amount of the others.
JOSEPH MONK . I live at 2, Neckinger-terrace, Bermondsey, and am head porter at the North Kent Railway station, London Bridge—on Saturday afternoon, 30th June, I was at the station about ten minutes to 5—at that time I saw four packages of luggage lying on the platform by the side of the trucks; one was a portmanteau—I took the whole of those four and placed them on one of the trucks of the Company—on so doing some gentleman spoke to me rather sharply—he asked me what I was going to do with them, that they were not going by that train—about two minutes after that the last witness came up and asked the porters whether they knew where the portmanteau was—the other three parcels were claimed by him—the portmanteau was looked for in vain—the prisoner is very much like the person that spoke to me sharply about the luggage, but I can't positively swear that he is the man—I have heard him speak since—that does not confirm my impression—I did not take that notice of him in the hurry of business—I have a great many people speak to me—he appeared just that size, and was dressed in the same way.
Cross-examined. Q. You hear some thousands speak during the day? A. Yes—if they speak to me I generally look at them—I notice a great many of them—I do not undertake to swear to him.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I merely wish to state that on the afternoon in question I was with some friends of mine at the time the porter says he fancies he saw me at the station, having tea with them, and I have a witness who can prove the truth of the assertion; that is all. And I can also bring a witness forward who saw that party give me the cheque, and he heard what he said to me at the time; that is all."
Mr. Dickie called
ELIZA ELLIS . I live at 16, Luton-place, Hoxton, with my father and mother—I recollect the afternoon of Saturday, 30th June, the prisoner was at our house to tea that day—there were other people there besides me—he was there a little after 3 o'clock, and remained till a little after 7—he went out a little while, returned again about 8 o'clock, and was there till about half-past 11—we were amusing ourselves.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How do you know this was on 30th June? A. It was on a Saturday—I know it because it was the day Mrs. Hutchinson went down to Dorchester to see her son—I have known the prisoner twelve months—he has not been courting me, he has been courting
my sister; I can't say exactly how long—my father, mother, sister, and myself were the party at tea that day—the prisoner sat in the kitchen to take his tea—I can't say whom he sat next to—my mother was sitting at the corner of the table; my mother made tea—I knew when the prisoner was taken up—I did not know that he was charged with committing a robbery at the Railway on that very day when he was at tea with us—I first knew it on the Wednesday—I knew he was remanded, and I knew the day he was remanded to—I don't know that he was remanded two or three times—I went to the police-court the second time—I did not give my evidence there—neither my father or mother went.
MR. DICKIE. Q. You don't know much about police-courts? A. No—my father has been two years in one employment.
MARY ANN JAMES . I am the wife of Mr. Charles James, who is a pocket-book maker—I live now at 17, Newton-street—I remember being at a tea-party in Mr. Ellis's house—I was there on the day the prisoner was there—I was down stairs waiting for my husband—I did not take tea with them—I remember seeing the prisoner there a certain evening, lately—it was on a Saturday, but I can't say what date—it was within a month or five weeks.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you don't keep the dates particularly in your head? A. No.
GUILTY of Receiving.** — Four Years' Penal Servitude.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1860.