CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
WIRE, MAYOR TWELFTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, October 24th, 1859.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Mr. Ald. MECHI; Mr. Ald. HALE; and Mr. Ald. ABBISS.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
HANNAH EDWARDS . I am the wife of Charles Edwards, a mechanic's labourer, of 3, Shoemaker-row, Blackfriars—I know the prisoner—his wife keeps a school in Church-entry, Broadway, Blackfriars, and he resides there with his wife—the children were accustomed to play in the square or passage before the school, the gates being left open—on 25th August, about 1 o'clock, I was in my room, from which I had a view of the schoolroom—I did not see the prisoner at that time—I saw some water come out of a second-floor window; I could not see who threw it; it came on the children, and wetted one of mine who was playing there—upon that I came down into the court—I then saw the prisoner speaking to Mrs. Evans—he was on the threshold of the gates, and he was taking a life-preserver out of his breast-pocket—I saw him take it into his right hand and twist the cord round his wrist, and he deliberately struck Mrs. Evans on the head with it, and knocked her down with the blow—I said to him, "Oh, you wretch!"—he then struck me in the mouth with the life-preserver in his hand; it made my mouth bleed, and knocked out two of my teeth—I flew at him and made a grab at him in my own defence, and I then received several other blows on my hands and my face—I had a frightful face, and he struck me at the corner of the head, which stunned me—I did not see the blade part of the preserver—I had one blow on my chest and one on my arm—I did not feel anything when I was struck in the chest, because I was in a stunned state—I did not see any policemen there, they came up afterwards; I was taken up by one or two females; the witness Loom was one—I was
taken into Mr. Langford's shop; from there I was taken to the hospital, and going along, some one saw this instrument sticking in me—I thought my ribs were broken—I saw it taken out, and it was the blade part of the preserver.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How far do you live from the school house? A. Perhaps about thirty yards—my children have, like the rest of the children, been in the habit of playing in this place—the prisoner never complained to me of the annoyance which they caused him; he only threw water on them and struck them; he never complained to me—there has been a piece of work several times through his throwing water upon them; I have interfered two or three times—I never heard him complain of the annoyance, unless it was when he summoned me up to the Court twelve months ago—I never heard that he complained of acts of indecency against the door—I was taken before the Magistrate on a charge of assaulting him, and bound over to keep the peace—I certainly did say several things to him that perhaps I ought not—Mrs. Evans had nothing to do with that piece of work—I have heard her speak of his brutality to the children—within the last three or four months there have been continued rows outside the door, and mobs of people collected—I do not know that Mrs. Evans was bound over to keep the peace towards the prisoner—the children go into school about 2 o'clock—this occurred about 20 minutes to 2—I could not see the schoolhouse-door from my window—I saw four little children and two big ones, and one had got a baby in her arms—I did not see a number of grown-up persons; there was no crowd till afterwards—I did not call out upon the prisoner throwing water out of the window; I had not the opportunity before he struck me—there was not a crowd round the door abusing and pulling the prisoner about before I was struck; there might be two or three persons, but no one was speaking to him but Mrs. Evans—there were not ten or twenty persons there, I can swear that—there was no mob abusing him and pulling him about until after he had struck me and Mrs. Evans; there was a mob then, and they did not treat him very gently after they found what he had been guilty of—I did not address the mob; I spoke to him when he struck me—I did not abuse him and make use of very foul language to him; I believe the mob did, and I believe they tore the clothes pretty nearly off his back; I was told so; I did not see it—I did not hear him calling out for the police—I was never before a Magistrate upon any other charge of assault than the one I have mentioned—my father-in-law is a witness here to-day; he was one that was wounded—I never heard my father-in-law tell the prisoner that if he appeared against me upon the summons, he would take care and do for him—I believe my husband went to him to try and make it up, but I was not present.
MR. COOPER. Q. When you were before the Magistrate, was it for using threatening language? A. Yes; I had not struck the prisoner at that time; he had struck the children on that occasion, and left the prints of his fingers upon them—(The life-preserver and blade were here produced).
COURT Q. Is that what was taken out of your side? A. Yes.
EDWARD LANGFORD . I am a fishmonger, and live at 3, Shoemaker-row. On 25th August, about half-past 1 in the afternoon, I was standing at the corner of Church-entry, and saw three or four children come round covered with water—Mrs. Evans came to see about it—I went down to the school-room, looked round the corner, and saw the prisoner there; he was just inside the gate—there was a mob, a few persons—as I was going down, I
saw one woman struck, I do not know which it was, and she fell down—when I got there I saw Mrs. Edwards struck by the prisoner; that was not with the life-preserver—then the old man, Mr. Edwards, came to see about it; and the first time of my seeing the life-preserver was when he used it on the old man—he made a hit at him; I thought it would be on his head, but it hit his ear and rebounded on his shoulder—then there was a lot fell down together—with the assistance of a policeman, Mrs. Edwards was got into my shop, and I drew the dagger from her side—it was in her gown; I can't say whether it was in her flesh; I pulled it out; she looked very ill.
Cross-examined. Q. At the time the water was thrown out, did you hear any women calling out? A. No; Mrs. Evans came up a very few minutes afterwards—I did not see Mrs. Edwards come up; she was there when I came down—when I first went down there were only a few persons there, I should not think twenty; they were collecting—the crowd had not increased considerably before I saw any blow struck—I should not think there were more than twenty persons there when Mrs. Edwards was struck—when she fell down there were lots of people trying to take the instrument from him—I heard no calling out before that—when the police came up they were all in a muddle—the prisoner was not beaten and ill-used by the mob, that I saw—he would not let go of the life-preserver—he seemed rather bare afterwards—at the time I saw Mr. Edwards struck, the prisoner was three or four steps up; the people were not crowding up the steps to where he was; Edwards was asking the reason of his daughter-in-law being ill-used, and he said, "If you come up," or something like that; I heard no more, but he made a blow with the life-preserver—I did not observe the old man make a blow at the prisoner—I was standing just by the iron railing facing the prisoner's gates—there were a number of people, I did not take notice of the number, say thirty, all intermixed together.
SARAH LOOM . I am the wife of Charles Loom, a cab-driver, and live at 5, Fleur-de-lis-court—on the afternoon of 25th August, about twenty minutes to 2, I was there—I could see the prisoner from my window—I saw him throw water over some children—upon that I came down stairs into Church-entry, and I saw the prisoner strike Mrs. Evans—they had then got to the school gate—I saw him take this life-preserver out of his left-hand pocket—he twisted the string round his wrist, and I saw him strike Mrs. Edwards—I could not say whether he struck her with his fist or with the life-preserver—I saw her mouth bleed—her father-in-law, Mr. Edwards, then came, and the prisoner struck him on the ear with the life-preserver—I then saw the blade of the life-preserver—he then struck Mrs. Edwards again, and then Mr. and Mrs. Edwards and the prisoner fell—he struck Mrs. Edwards the second time with the life-preserver—the blade was then out—I did not see the blade till Mr. Langford pulled it out of Mrs. Edwards—there were a great many people there when he first struck Mrs. Edwards; I dare say twenty—after that the crowd came and they tried to take the life-preserver away, and then the policeman came.
Cross-examined. Q. The crowd had come at the time Mrs. Edwards was struck. A. There were about twenty, I dare say—afterwards I dare say there were a hundred—the entry was quite full—they were crowding up against Mr. Barlow, who was standing on the steps of the school-house—they abused him and called him names and tore his shirt—the row had been going on for about five minutes when I first saw the life-preserver—they were crowding round him and pulling and striking at him; not before I saw the life-preserver; they did not touch him before I saw the life-preserver—
he was standing on the steps of the school-house; not three or four steps up; I don't think he was above one step up—I did not see anything of the blade when I first saw the life-preserver—I did not hear the prisoner calling out for help or for the police—it was after he struck Mrs. Edwards that he was one step up—when he struck Mrs. Evans and Mrs. Edwards he was right at the gate.
MR. COOPER. Q. Does the place leading to the school-house open with little iron gates? A. Yes—they have been shut ever since, after school-time.
THOMAS CHARLES LANGDON . I was house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's Hospital on 26th August—on that day Mrs. Edwards was brought there—I examined her—she had several bruises about the face, one on the forehead, one on the cheek, one on her mouth, and a bruise on the back of one of her hands—I also found a punctured wound on the left side of the chest, just below the region of the heart—it was about three quarters of an inch in depth—it did not penetrate the chest; it ran in a slanting direction backwards and downwards—such a blade as the one produced would produce such a wound—it was in a dangerous part—it is quite well now—it healed in about a week.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you called upon to examine the prisoner at all? A. No; I did not see him until a week afterwards at Guildhall—he then had marks of bruises on his face—I did not examine the clothes that Mrs. Edwards had on, and do not know what clothes the blade had gone through—the wound was of a superficial nature—it was certainly made by a slanting thrust—it was over one of the ribs—had it been more direct it would have penetrated the chest.
JAMES NOBLE (City policeman, 444). On 25th August, about half-past 1 in the day, I was passing through Shoemaker-row and saw a large crowd in Church-entry—I should think there were from ninety to a hundred persons there at that time—the prisoner had a life-preserver in his hand—seven or eight men had got hold of the life-preserver and his arms together, and there was one on each side of his neck as well—they were trying to wrest the life-preserver from him—he was resisting them all he could—he had the string round his wrist—I went up and asked him to give me possession of the life-preserver—he said, "I will give it to you"—I then took him into custody—I ordered a man first to cut the string as there was no possibility of getting it out of his hands, and I then got possession of it.
Cross-examined. Q. He was very badly used, was he not? A. After I had got him into custody he was, and no doubt he had been before, for his shirt was all torn and his coat likewise—he was very nearly bare all but his trowsers, and when I had an opportunity of looking at him his eye was bruised, his ear cut, and his hands also—he had evidently been badly used by somebody—on the road to the station he said to me, "I was obliged to use the point or I should have been killed"—I did not know at that time what he meant by the point—I did not know there was any point to the life-preserver until it was brought to the station—he said he was obliged to use the point to save his own life—at the time I went up there was a very serious riot going on—I did not hear him calling out for assistance—he might have done so, the noise was so great.
MR. SLEIGH called the following Witnesses for the Defence.
ADOLPHUS HENRY HOFFMAN . I live nearly opposite the school-house in which the prisoner resides, and am a book-edge gilder—there are some gates in front of the school-house, and a space between them and the house—
I have observed children there creating a constant noise and annoyance—they were doing nothing beyond making a noise and obstructing the passage, and after the house was painted they scratched off the paint—I have not been present on occasions previous to the 25th August, when there were rows and mobs collected—on 25th, I was at home standing in front of my house—I heard the school bell rung violently—I saw some children inside the railings and up the steps inside the inclosure—they were playing; and there was a fish boy pulling up tufts of grass—I saw some water thrown over the children—they were then going away—the fish boy still continued pulling up the tufts of grass, and he threw them up at the window—I then saw Mrs. Evans come down Church-entry with a towel on her arm wiping her hands; she rang the school bell twice and the prisoner came down to answer it—she began shaking her fist at him—in the mean-time Mrs. Edwards came down to him and began threatening him likewise with her fist—I did not hear any words, not being near enough—he was standing, facing them, in his own gates, inside the school-house—there are steps which lead up to the school-house—other, persons came up—when they made their threats at him with their fists, he took his left hand and pushed Mrs. Evans away—Mrs. Edwards then flew at him in the face, and he took up his right hand and hit her in the face and she fell back; she returned to him again and I saw her nose was bleeding—she did not touch him when she flew at him—his blows prevented her—he took and blowed her off; if he had not defended himself she must have hit him—there were about two or three persons there at the time he struck her—I had seen nothing of the life-preserver at this time—shortly afterwards Mr. Edwards came up, and then there were two or three blows struck between him and the prisoner—Mr. Edwards struck first; it was a regular fight—a mob immediately collected, and several of them called out, "Drag him out, drag him out"—he was then in his own place on the footway where the steps are—the children I saw playing were in the court-yard between the Church-entry and the school-house up the steps—when the mob called, "Drag him out," the prisoner fell back, put his hand in his left breast pocket and drew out this life-preserver—he was then about two steps in the school-house—the mob were all quiet the moment he took the life-preserver in his hand—he then placed it back in his pocket again, and then they all wanted to rush on him again—they tried to come on him and he pulled it out again—they rushed on him, and he took the life-preserver in his hand and hit Mr. Edwards, who was in the middle, on the head—they were all three upon him then; Mrs. Evans, Mrs. Edwards, and Mr. Edwards—as soon as the blow was struck, from the weight of the mob rushing on him, he fell and they came on the top of him—he dropped his hands to save himself, and Mr. and Mrs. Edwards got hold of the life-preserver and held it, and kept hitting the prisoner, and he was hitting them back again; this continued about a quarter of an hour before the police came up—I did not hear the prisoner calling out—I was at my window on the other side of the Churchyard—when the policeman came up he tried to get the life preserver from them, and said, "Oh, he will give it up to me"—the prisoner said, "I will"—he tried to get it out of their hands but was not able—they fell on him and hit him, and tore his coat off his back and threw it up against the house—he was completely saturated with blood—that was after the police had come up—the row still went on after that.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you see Mrs. Edwards taken off bleeding? A. Yes, in a cab—I did not remain in my house the whole time
—when they got under the archway I could not see any more of them, and I then ran down stairs, went through Mrs. Evans' house into the burial-ground and looked over the railings—Mrs. Edwards was not taken away till after the police came up—she was saturated with blood, and all her hair was hanging down—I did not see the prisoner strike Mrs. Edwards with the life-preserver.
COURT Q. Then you only saw her struck once, when she first came up and flew at him, as you say? A. That was all—I saw the whole transaction until they got under the archway in Church-entry, and then they were out of my sight—when Mrs. Edwards came up the prisoner was on the steps leading to the school-house—they pulled him out of there down Church-entry—that was after the life-preserver was used.
JAMES LEACH . I am a bookbinder and live at 8, Broadway, close to Church-entry—on 25th August I was at home having my dinner; in consequence of hearing a noise I went out and saw the prisoner down Church-entry—there were fifty or sixty people there at the time; they were very noisy and fighting with the prisoner—I did not see him strike any one—I saw them strike him and knock him about—when I first saw him he was by the gate—I did not see him fall back—the next time I saw him was in the entry; they got him up into Shoemaker-row out of the entry—I saw the policeman come up in about 10 minutes; during that time there was a continuance of what I have described on the part of the mob; they all got on him; he could not do anything, some were holding him, and others punching at him.
Cross-examined. Q. About what time was that? A. About 20 minutes past 1—I did not hear the water come down in the yard—I have seen the children playing down there—it is not two minutes' walk from my place.
EDWARD JOHN WATCHURST . I am a bootmaker at 1, Cobb's-court, Blackfriars—I could see from my house the place where this occurred—Cobb's-court is a continuation of Church-entry—on 25th August I was sitting at my dinner; there was a dreadful noise below—I went down and saw the prisoner in a fearful state, and before him was Mrs. Evans, old Edwards, another person, a painter, and the fishmonger, Langford—there had evidently been a great deal of fighting before I got there, because the prisoner was cut in the face and his shirt torn off—Mrs. Evans's daughter said to him, "If you hit my mother I'll hit you;" that was a watchword for another attack—there were a great many people there—the excitement was very great—I only wish to confine myself to the parties that struck him—old Edwards, the painter, and the fishmonger laid into him unmercifully; they knocked him into the shop of Mr. Trimm the butterman, who is one of Langford's party—Trimm was standing in the middle of the road at the time, and he came and shoved the prisoner out of the shop, and then the attack was renewed, Langford in a most cowardly manner beating him behind, and swearing he would have his b—liver out before he had done with him—the prisoner was no friend of mine; but I shouted out, "Take him off, I don't care what he has done," and that is how it was stopped—the policeman stood at my left but he did not interfere, he looked very pale—my cry stopped it by magic—I had never spoken to the prisoner previous to this, but he was a well-ordered, well-conducted man, I never saw aught against him—he went away very quietly with the policeman—he bears a respectable character in the neighbourhood.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him flourishing about a life-preserver? A. No; that was all over before I came down—it was a regular fight—
it was my impression that if they could have got him down they would have killed him.
Several witnesses deposed to the prisoner's good character.
GUILTY of Unlawfully Wounding.— Confined Twelve Months.
There were two other indictments against the prisoner for assaulting Mrs. Evans and Mr. Edwards on the same occasion.
PLEADED GUILTY .—(See next case.)
892. CHARLES TALBOT (34), was again indicted with JAMES ALEXANDER NOBLE (27) , for stealing 16 1/2 reams of paper, 1,963 memorandum books, and other goods, of Henry Rock and others, the masters of Talbot. Second Count, feloniously receiving the same.
MESSRS GIFFARD and BESTLEY conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS NEIL TREDGETT . I am a town-traveller in the employment of Rock Brothers, and Payne—on a Saturday in the preceding month I went to the shop of Noble—I do not recollect the day of the month; it was the Saturday preceding that on which I went to the Mansion House—I saw several books lying out on a board in front of the shop—I passed on behind that and there I saw a lot of other books in a glass case, all seeming to belong to our firm—Noble's shop is an old book shop—I did not examine the books in the glass case—I saw Noble there, and said to him that he had a lot of goods belonging to our firm marked considerably under cost price, could he inform me who he bought them of? he said that he had bought them of a woman whose address he did not know, but he had it once, which was North Woolwich—I believe he said she came there once or twice a week—he said he would get me the address if I would call down; I said I would do so—I asked the name of the woman; he said he did not know the name.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH (with MR. DOYLE for Noble). Q. Messrs. Rock & Co. are stationers in a very large way of business, I believe? A. Yes; wholly wholesale—they sell to retail dealers in this country, and export largely—Noble's shop is in the Commercial-road, the high road—I call it an old book shop—I believe there are novels and such things for sale there; he had stationery—I did not go there accidentally; I went for the express purpose of seeing if I could find any of our property—there was no difficulty in seeing it; it was exposed to view publicly—the glass case was outside the shop—I took up a book or two, but did not see any with Noble's name in them—I did not take up any of the packets of stationery—he was not attending to the shop himself—I asked to see him, and he came forward directly—I told him I came from Messrs. Rock's—we manufacture very large quantities of these metallic books—we do not make note paper, but we deal in it extensively, the same description of paper as is dealt in by all other wholesale and retail dealers—he did not tell me that the woman represented herself as the wife of a person who made this description of stationery, and that these were lots that her husband could not get a sale for; nothing of the kind—our foreman, Hall, was present—he is not here.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. What proportion did that which was exposed to view bear to that which was afterwards found on the premises? A. About one-fifth, I should say—that which I saw principally bore Messrs. Rock's name, "Rock & Co., London"—it is on the clasps of the books, and at the back
also—he said nothing to me about knowing whether they were Messrs. Rock's property or not.
JOSEPH COMBER KNIGHT . I am one of the city of London constables—on Monday, 19th September last, I went with Mr. Rock to Noble's shop, and saw him there—Mr. Rock first spoke to him—he asked if his name was Noble, at the door; he said it was—Mr. Rock said he wished to speak to him, and we went inside; and he then gave the prisoner his card, and told him that we were two police-officers (that is, myself and Legg); that he understood he had some of his property there—he said that he had a small quantity that he had bought from a woman—I asked him if he knew who the woman was—he said he did not know her name, but she was there on the Saturday night, and he gave the address, 16, Grove-street—I think both I and Mr. Rock asked him then if he would show us what goods he had of Mr. Rock's—he looked round, and put about two dozen books on the counter, and said he believed they were all he had—Mr. Rock then said, "There are a quantity in a glass case outside; they appear to be my property"—the prisoner said, "Oh, yes, there are some in a glass case outside; they are nearly all your property"—they were brought in, and found to be Mr. Rock's property, nearly the whole—I asked him again if he had not asked the woman her name; he said he did not—he said he did not know whether he could find her, but that was the address she had given—I said, "Well, I will give you a fair chance to find her; you get into a cab and go with Legg, my brother officer, and see if you can find the woman"—previous to his going I had asked him if he had any bills or invoice of the goods; he said he had not—I asked him if he had any entry of this in his books; he said he had not, and that he had bought them a few at a time on different occasions during the last twelve months—he then went away with Legg—I told him that in the meantime Mr. Rock and I should look over his stock to see if there was any further property belonging to Mr. Rock—Mr. Rock and I found a small portion more in the front shop—we then went into the back shop, or rather a room at the back of the shop—I have the property here that we found (produced)—there are some packets not opened—nearly the whole of this property was found on shelves in the back shop, with tiers of books in front of them—nearly the whole of the property, with the exception of the memorandum books were piled up behind, with a tier of books in front of them—when Noble came back with my brother officer I asked if they had found the woman—I found they had not—I then said to Noble, "You see the quantity of property we have found here belonging to Mr. Rock; I don't consider your account of them to be satisfactory, and it will be our duty to take you into custody for receiving them, knowing them to be stolen"—he made no reply to that—I said, "I shall take you to Bow-lane police station, and take the property with you"—the property was then put in the cab, and Legg and the prisoner went away to Bow-lane police station; but after he had got in the cab I said to him, "I am going to your father's shop, shall I find any of Mr. Rock's property there?"—he said, "Yes; you will find a quantity there which I have given my father to sell for me"—I then went to the father's with Mr. Rock, and received this parcel from the father; it was open about the shop—I packed it up together—there was a large quantity of note paper that had never been opened; about seventy parcels, I think, in their wrappers—I think they had no name on the outside, but there are some marks upon them by which Mr. Rock knows them.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. The shop that Noble keeps is in a
great thoroughfare, is it not? A. It is; there are glass cases outside the window in which the goods are contained—I found a good many of these goods exposed outside, but nothing like the bulk—there were three or four dozen in the cases—it is a second-hand book shop; you would not take it for a stationer's—I believe stationery is sold in it; we found a large quantity—I believe there was some note paper in the window, besides that belonging to Mr. Rock, but I am not quite positive—Mr. Rock examined nearly the whole—there were bibles, prayer-books, grammars, and other books for sale, new as well as old—you see packets of note paper like this in all stationers' shops—I put but very few questions to the prisoner—Mr. Bock asked him what property he had of his manufacture there, that he had bought of this woman—the greater portion of the bound books had Mr. Rock's name on them—I mean the pocket books and memorandum books, but I believe not all—this (produced) is a book from a packet that has not been opened—I see inside here, "J. Noble, bookseller and stationer, Commercial-road"—I had not seen that before—that was in one of the packets that has not been opened since we have had it—Mr. Rock can tell you better than I whether it may have been opened or not; the prisoner told me he had received these in small parcels—he did not say the woman represented herself to be the wife of a manufacturing stationer; I am quite sure of that—I did not search for any stock-book on the premises, or any account book at all; nor did any of the other policemen—I cannot tell whether he had any book in which entries of stock were made—I did not think I had a right to look into other persons' private books—I thought I had only a right to meddle with that which Mr. Bock said was his property—I brought away, I think, two reams of ruled paper—Mr. Rock said he was not positive about that being his, but he believed it to be his; that it was the same make, and he thought it was their ruling—I also brought away some bill-paper—I don't know whether this book (produced) was claimed by Mr. Rock—if it came out of the basket, it was brought away with the others—but I don't recollect seeing this before—there is a door leading from the front shop to the back room—you can see into it from the street—it is a continuation of the shop—I don't know that I saw any of these books exposed on the shelves—I think some of the note paper Mr. Rock gave me from one of the front tiers—I can't say that the books that were at the back were continued on from where the paper was—my impression is that they were behind—there was a large quantity of books in the back shop—I have often seen books put one behind the other—all the books were in glass cases, both in the front and back shops—they were on shelves with glass slides before them to keep the dust from them—I did not go to look for the woman, Legg did; I went with the prisoner's brother to the father's—I took him to see two women a day or two afterwards, that we had some suspicion of, and he said neither of those was the woman that came to the brother's shop.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. What portion of property was it that was concealed from view behind the books? A. I should think nearly two-thirds.
HENRY ROCK . I am a wholesale stationer at 11, Walbrook, in partnership as Rock Brothers & Payne—I communicated with the police, and afterwards went with Legg and Knight to Noble's shop in the Commercial-road—he appeared to sell second-hand books—it was certainly not an ordinary stationer's shop—I saw him, gave him my card, and said that I wished to speak to him—I then informed him that I had understood he was in possession of some goods of ours, that had been stolen; he said he so understood—the officers I think asked him if he had any objection to allow
us to examine—that was after he had produced a small proportion of the goods—I saw a glass case outside the door, and in that was a considerable quantity of goods of our manufacture—I asked how he came into possession of these goods; he said he bought them of a woman, but he did not know her name—I asked over what period of time the purchase had extended—I think he said twelve months—I asked if he knew the name of the person—he said he did not, but he gave an address which I forget; shortly after he left in company with the officer, and I proceeded to make a further examination—I found a considerable quantity of goods; nearly the whole was found after they had left, in a back room adjoining the shop—they were in glass cases, and almost without an exception behind printed books, so that an ordinary observer would not notice them—I believe they are all here—there are several which have not been opened; they are in the wrappers as they left our warehouse—none of the note paper has been opened; some few of the books outside the shop were marked at certain prices—here is one marked 9d., the retail price of which is 1s. 6d., and our price to the trade is about 12 1/2 d.—I should say that there was about one tenth of the property found outside the door—the value of the whole that I found was about 50l.; that would be retailed at a price considerably beyond that—there was a very small quantity of stationery on the premises which I could not identify, perhaps 4l. or 5l. worth, not more—Talbot was a porter in our employment, and I think had been so for twenty years—I do not remember his address, but it was the same house to which I went with the policeman—Talbot had access to our stock; to this class of stock particularly—the policeman went to Talbot's house on a Monday in September—the following day he absented himself from his duty—I never recollect his having done so before without leave.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Stationery I suppose, like other articles, is sometimes sold very much below its value in regular trade? A. Not that I am aware of; we do not buy these packets of paper ready made up; we put the wrappers on—we sell an immense quantity in the course of a year—Noble never did business with us—we sell to other stationers, and they again retail to others—it would be very difficult for me to say that these were not sold to any one, but no one person ever bought from us an amount of goods like this, I mean confined to so few things—I can say that there are some of these things that we did not sell to any person in London—it would be very difficult for me to swear that there is anything here that might not have been sold; they are a class of goods that we are always selling—we print the wrappers ourselves.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON (for Talbot). Q. You say Talbot was a porter? A. Yes; we have three porters—altogether we have about 130 men in our employment, most of them have access to the stock—Talbot was in the habit of asking for a holiday now and then—he would apply to either of the firm that might be in at the time—I was the only partner at home at this time, therefore he would apply to me; no one else had authority to give him leave of absence—the foreman does not take upon himself to give the men leave.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Is "Rock & Co." in the substance of the paper? A. In some of it—I can say that we never sold books of this kind to this extent to any one person, except for exportation, and then we should send them out of the country ourselves.
his house; he said it was where he lodged—he gave that address at the station—I there found some property.
MR. GIFFARD proposed to give in evidence the nature of the property found at Talbot's. MR. SLEIGH objected, as that property formed the subject matter of another indictment—MR. GIFFARD submitted that he was entitled to give the evidence in order to show a connexion between the prisoners; it could not affect Talbot, as he had already pleaded guilty to that charge—MR. RIBTON stated that Talbot had pleaded in error, and applied for permission to retract his plea. The RECORDER could not accede to the application, as the prisoner evidently intended to plead guilty, and had made the distinction between that charge and the present: as to the evidence tendered, he was of opinion that it ought not to be received.
NOT GUILTY .
TALBOT was sentenced to Six Months' imprisonment on the former indictment.
NEW COURT.—Monday, October 24th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Mr. Ald. MECHI; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
895. JOHN POWELL (28) , Stealing 32 yards of linen-cloth, value 2l. 10s.; also 27 yards of linen-cloth, value 2l.; also 63 yards of linen-cloth, value 2l. 10s., the property of James Henry Morley and another; to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months, and sent to a Reformatory for
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
MARTHA ORANGE . I am single, and live at Homer-street, Marylebone—on Saturday afternoon, 24th September, I was in Ludgate-street, about 3 o'clock, walking alone—I was about to cross the road—I found the prisoner at my side—he touched my shoulder—I walked on and I missed my purse—I turned round and saw the prisoner close beside me—he immediately ran across the road and I followed him—the policeman followed him too—my purse was shown to me by the policeman; I knew it again—it contained 7l. 12s. 4d., and a small brooch, and an invoice—I know I had my purse safe when the prisoner touched me on the shoulder—I was holding my
pocket in my hand—he touched my shoulder—I let go my pocket and immediately missed the weight of my purse.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you going towards Fleet-street? A. I was going from St. Paul's-churchyard on the right hand side towards the Strand—my pocket was on the right side of my dress inside—the prisoner was between me and the shops—I had my pocket in my hand,—not the purse—I had my purse out in Cheapside to pay a bill—there were others near me as well as the prisoner—he was alone—he was immediately beside me—I did not observe any one else walk alongside of me—I am sure the prisoner is the man—I saw him run away.
PHILIP PEACOCK . I live with my father in London House-yard—on that Saturday afternoon I was standing in front of the shop—I saw the prisoner come running down London House-yard—he passed our shop, and after he passed I saw him drop something out of his hand; I ran and picked it up, and found it to be a purse—I took it to the station—this is it.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner taken into custody? A. No; the policeman followed him—I don't know whether he saw him throw away the purse—when the policeman brought the prisoner back, he asked me if he was the man; I said yes—I never saw him before.
JOHN COLLINS (City policeman, 327). On that afternoon about 3 o'clock I saw Miss Orange running up Ludgate-street—I saw the prisoner running—I ran across the road after him down London House-yard, down Pater-noster-row, and into Ave Maria-lane—I saw him pass Peacock's shop—he was afterwards stopped, and I took him into custody—I brought him back and obtained the purse—I took the prisoner to the station—he attempted to cry, and asked me if I would let him go, and he would never do so any more.
The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.
WILLIAM HOLLOWAY . I produce a certificate (Read: "Clerkenwell, 21st August, 1858; James Butler was convicted of larceny after a previous conviction; Confined Twelve Months")—I was present at the trial—the prisoner is the man.
GUILTY.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL STEED . I am waiter at the Porter public-house, kept by Mr. Charles Ireland—on 12th October the prisoner came in the evening; he went into the parlour and had a pint of half-and-half—there were other persons there who, after taking what they desired, left, and left the prisoner alone—he came outside and asked for twopenny worth of gin-and-water—the pots and glasses were in the parlour, and while the prisoner got in conversation with another man, I looked in the parlour and a pot was gone—I accused the prisoner of stealing it; he said he knew nothing about it; he did not know what I meant—I said I would give him in charge—he tried to make his way out, but I stopped him, and the policeman came and took him—this pot was found in his hat—I had seen him at the house for about a fortnight before—this pot is worth about 3s.
Prisoner. Q. How long did I stand in front of your bar after I came out of the parlour? A. From three to five minutes perhaps.
Prisoner's Defence. I don't deny that the pot fell out of my hat, but I was in that state that I did not know what I was doing—I had been drinking all day—I don't know how the pot came in my hat.
GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY of the attempt,— Confined Six Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, October 25th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; and Mr. Ald. CONDER.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
The prosecutor, being called upon his recognizance, did not appear, and no evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY .
902. ALFRED GRANTHAM (17), CHARLES GRANTHAM (19), FRANCIS EDINBOROUGH (21), WILLIAM BLAND (32), CHARLES GRANTHAM the elder (47), and THOMAS MEAD (25) , Stealing 28 brass plates and lead coffin plates, the property of Rev. Archibald Boyd, perpetual curate of Paddington; other Counts, of the churchwardens.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL DOBLE (Policeman, D 147). On the morning of 4th October, about half-past 12, I went to the house of the prisoner Mead at 1, North-wharf-road, Paddington—as I was coming up to the house, I saw Alfred Grantham coming out of it—when he came out I went in—I took Mead in custody on another charge—I saw Alfred Grantham again about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes afterwards; he was coming into Mr. Mead's shop again as I stood at the door; he made a dart back again when he saw me, and looked in at the window; I caught hold of him then; I asked him what he had underneath his slop frock; he did not say—I pulled up his slop and I pulled these out; one brass inscription plate and two small leaden inscription plates, and a part of a lead coffin—Mr. and Mrs. Mead then went behind the counter to a sack of white rags, and they took out three or four more brass inscription plates that were concealed underneath the rags; Mrs. Mead hid them in her dress, and walked into the parlour—I ran into the parlour and took them away from her—I have them here (produced)—when I came out from the parlour, Mead said to me, "Between man and man, I have got some iron down in the cellar; for God's sake, let me go down and put it over the wall of a neighbour of mine"—Sergeant Potter then came with another constable, Bungay, and we took Mead and Grantham to the station—Grantham said, "I am no worse than the others; some other man gave it to me to sell"—we went back to Mead's shop again, and then
Sergeant Potter commenced searching to see if he could find any more leaden plates—Alfred Grantham told us the names of two or three men, and we went and apprehended them—he gave the name of Groves and another—he said that Groves and the other man were with others working in the vault all together; that they were all the same; they all had the money, and shared it together in beer—I said to him, "I saw you come out of the shop before; you went in and sold something before"—he said, "What I sold before, Mrs. Mead gave me 1s. for"—we came back to the shop to search, and found about 250lbs. weight of lead coffin and plates altogether—we found some underneath the counter; some of it was packed underneath the shop window; and one more lead plate I found in the sack of white rags where they had taken the others from—I was present when Charles Grantham, junior, was being taken to the station-house, and Charles Grantham, senior, also—I heard the elder say, when Bungay took him into custody, and told him what he was charged with, "I have expected this before, and if I had known you had been coming, I would have seen you d—d before I would have come"—he also said he was not the foreman; that Bland was the foreman, and had all the money—he said that he had not got any of the money—Charles Grantham the younger said when he was going along in custody, "There is a man there of the name of Cole; he had as much to do with it as I had; he had as much of the money as I had"—the church is about two minutes' walk from Mead's house—on the 5th, I saw Bland about 12 o'clock at night, going down into Praed-street; I told him that I wanted him; that he was charged with others for being concerned in stealing coffin plates and parts of lead coffins; he said, "I am not Bland at all; you are joking with me"—I told him that he must go with me; he said, "Very well"—he walked about a hundred yards very quietly; he then twisted himself round from me and another constable, and ran away as hard as ever he could; I followed him and took him into custody again in the Irongate-wharf—he said, "It is a bad job; we only did it to make a few shillings to get a drop of beer with."
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Alfred Grantham is a very young man? A. He is—I have known him a good while—I never knew anything against him before—he said, "I am not worse than the others"—I have been examined before—he said that some of the men at work gave him the lead, and he said the other words as well at the station, "I am no worse than the others"—I only found on him a brass plate and a bit of lead; he is brother to Charles Grantham, junior—I have known him about five years.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER (for Bland). Q. There were some other men taken in custody besides the prisoners? A. Two; Groves and Cole—I took them into custody in consequence of a statement made by Alfred Grantham—the police Magistrate heard those statements made and he discharged the two men—Dobbs, another constable, was with me when I took Bland into custody—I did not go to Bland's house—I went to near where he was lodging—I was two days looking after him—I cannot say whether he had been drinking when I took him into custody—he might have had a drink; he was not drunk—he was sober—I mentioned the charge to him—when I told him the charge he said, "You are joking; my name is not Bland"—and he said he was not the foreman, and that he had nothing to do with the money; that he was working up at the top, and did not know what was going on below—he said that the plates were knocked off accidentally, and they were thrown back again and he knew nothing more of them afterwards—I told him that I had got the other men in
custody—after I had taken him into custody he said that it was a bad job, and it was done to make a few shillings to get some beer with—he said, "We only done it to make a few shillings"—I swear to the very words he used—what he said was, "We only sold it to get a little beer"—I remember the words he used at the time as near as possible—I did not take any note of them in writing.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE (for Mead). Q. How many times did you go to Mead's shop? A. Three or four times, to fetch away the goods—sergeant Potter found the biggest part of the property at Mead's shop—a good deal of it was found after Mead was taken in custody—there were other persons in the place, his wife and the next-door neighbour came in, and his aunt was there—these three plates were found before Mead was taken to the station—they have inscriptions on them—they are what Mrs. Mead produced and what Charles Grantham said he had sold to Mrs. Mead and had one shilling for—Mrs. Mead did not produce them, if I had not been pretty quick I should not have seen them—I got them from Mrs. Mead—all the rest were taken after Mead was taken to the station—sergeant Potter took some of it from underneath the window and under the counter—it was not like it is now, it was doubled up so as to have the inscription inside—it has not been cleaned since—they were all as clean as they are now—they were each doubled singly—the lead plates were some doubled up and some not—I went to take Mead on another charge; I was sent there to do so—he was discharged by the Magistrate on that case—there were other charges also made before the Magistrate, and there were persons there to swear to the property; but he was discharged—I did not say that I should indict him for those cases notwithstanding the Magistrate's decision—I heard sergeant Potter say he would be indicted on another charge—he did not say, to my knowledge, that for the charge that the Magistrate dismissed he should prefer an indictment here—I heard him say that there would be another indictment, because there was a great deal of property found belonging to Sir John Hare—he did not say, in my presence, that the Magistrate was an old fool, and that he should prefer an indictment here; nor that he should give Mr. Lewis notice—I took Groves and Cole, and everybody I could find, of course—I communicated with the parish about half-an-hour after we found the property—I think Mead was taken in custody about half-past 11—I did not take him before the Magistrate directly, because we had not got the case straight; we had a great deal of inquiry to make—we kept him in custody at the station till the next day—it was no use to take him before the Magistrate if we had not got everything ready to take him there—I do not know whether that was sergeant Potter's doing more than any other constable's—I am only a private constable—Mr. Mackrell was the inspector—he was the person that had authority to say whether the prisoner should go before the Magistrate that day or not—if he had sent the case before the Magistrate he must have gone.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Tell us again correctly what was it Bland said? A. When we came up with him again he said, "It is a bad job, and we only done it to make a few shillings to get a drop of beer"—the other charges against Mead before the Magistrate were not in respect of this lead or plates—when searching the place we found a great deal of other property—one charge was for receiving a lot of property that came out of a boat that was broken into one night, and the boatman swore to the property—there was
another charge about nine hundredweight of iron, and the owner swore to some of that; but he was discharged—then there was another charge Sir John Hare was going to prefer about two copper pumps, but he was not charged with that.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Is the iron you speak of the iron he wanted to remove? A. I do not know—he asked me to let him go down and remove some—I found some iron after that, and I made a charge before the Magistrate about it.
THOMAS POTTER (Police-sergeant, A). On the morning of 4th October, I went to Mead's shop; it is a marine-store dealer's shop—I found him and Alfred Grantham in the custody of Doble—I did not say anything to Mead before I took him—I heard Doble charge him with having some brass plates and lead in his possession, and he said, "For God's sake let me go down stairs and put some iron over the wall"—we did not allow him to do so, but took him at once to the station—at the station I asked him whether he kept a book or made any entries—he said he had got none—after leaving him at the station, I went back to the shop—I had left a constable there in charge, with Mead's wife—I proceeded to search—I found six plates, two or three brass, and some leaden plates, all with inscriptions on them—they were concealed under one end of the counter, under some other property—I found some lead, a great quantity of which has been produced here to-day—it has been all in court—I found it at the end of the counter nearest the shop, all packed up under the counter—after taking the lead to the station I asked Alfred Grantham bow he got the lead—he said it was given to him by the men at the vaults, mentioning several of their names—he mentioned the name of Cole, Edinborough, and another who was discharged, of the name of Groves—I apprehended Charles Grantham the younger in the vaults—I told him that he must consider himself in custody for being concerned with others in stealing brass plates and leaden coffins—he said that it was a bad job; and, pointing to a man of the name of Cole who was at work at the top of the steps as we were leaving the vaults, he said, "He has had as much of the money as I have;" I then ordered Cole to be taken, and he was taken and discharged—I went to the vaults again next morning and made an examination of them with Merry—I examined four coffins and I found that the plates had been torn away from the tops of the coffins by tearing them away; three coffins were covered with black cloth, and they had rent the cloth very much in getting one of the plates off—among the plates I found at Mead's, there was one bearing the inscription of Major-General Pilkington; I took that and applied it to the coffin; it corresponded and matched the place in every respect, and also the one now lying on the table, of Thomas Beaman, which I also found at Mead's shop—I applied that to a coffin covered with cloth where the plate was missing, and found it corresponded exactly, and the cloth had been torn by the manner of tearing away the plate.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Had Alfred Grantham any signs of drink on him? A. No; I do not think he had; I did not observe it—he said that what he had was given to him by the men at work in the vaults, and he mentioned the names of three.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER. Q. Did you look over a great number of coffins? A. No; I could not, the others had been covered up—I could not see them without having the dirt and concrete removed again, and I did not do that as I found two correspond—the coffins had not been at all disturbed except the plates being wrenched from the tops.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You say one of these plates was inscribed with the name of General Pilkington? A. Yes; they all have names on them—two or three of them had been doubled up, but they were flat when we found them under the counter—the greater portion were doubled when we found them—the plates and lead was as it is now, as near as possible—there is one part of the top of a coffin with a plate on it that was not taken off; it was lying flat under the counter—there was a great deal of other property scattered about, and that among it—Mead was taken in custody before I went there—I sent the officer to Mead's shop to apprehend him—he was detained in the shop till I arrived there—the Magistrate thought that this charge was sufficient—there were three others gone into, and he was acquitted, but I had five others ready—the Magistrate discharged him on the three charges—I did not say the Magistrate was an old fool and that I should prefer an indictment here myself—I never mentioned the word "fool" at all—I said that there was a gentleman there that would indict him on another case—I told Mr. Lewis that he would be indicted on another charge—the word "fool" never came out of my mouth—I swear that—I said that it was a great shame that the Magistrate should discharge him on a case of stealing 6 cwt. of iron which was identified—I do not think I said any thing about his not being discharged at any other Police-court, or by any other Magistrate—I heard the gentleman grumble about it—it was the person who charged him with stealing the rope from the boat; I forget his name, but he was in court, and I heard the gentleman that charged him with stealing the iron afterwards also say it was a shame—as soon as I had finished searching Mead's place, which took us seven hours, he was locked up and charged—he was taken in custody about half-past 11; I did not take him—he was not taken before the Magistrate till next morning—my orders are to take a man before the Magistrate as soon as I have got everything ready; I was busy apprehending the other parties, and searching Mead's place; it was no use taking him before the Magistrate without any evidence—it took us till 10 o'clock at night to get ready—we found a great deal of property—if we had taken him before the Magistrate he would have remanded him if there was sufficient evidence, but there was not sufficient evidence, I considered—as soon as I was ready I went; it was not my doing particularly that he was kept there; there was no order about it—as soon as I was sufficiently ready the case went before the Magistrate—we carried away whole truck-loads of property, the greater portion of which has been identified by different inhabitants of the parish—this plate of General Pilkington I found concealed under the counter after Mead was in custody.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. What is the date of that? A. 6th December, 1834—I have looked at all the plates—I did not notice what was the earliest date on any of them—I think there is one of 1796 among them (produced)—the name of this is Mary Ann Mayne—here is one of 1844—the charges on which Mead was discharged Were not at all in reference to these plates, or this lead.
THOMAS BUNGAY (Policeman, D 161). I was with the other two constables at Mead's shop—I afterwards took the prisoner Edinboro into custody in the vault of St. Mary's Church, Paddington—on the way to the station he said, "We found them in the vault, and we thought there was no harm in selling them to get a drop of beer with"—I had told him I should take him into custody for being concerned in stealing coffin plates and parts of coffins from St. Mary's church, Paddington.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did not he say, "I know nothing
about it; I only know that I had a little of the money or beer?"—A. No; I am certain of that.
COURT Q. Were you left in charge of Mead's shop, when he was taken away? A. Yes, until Potter came back.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Where did you remain during that time? A. In the shop—Mrs. Mead was there also—I was at the police-court—I did not hear Potter say after the other charges were dismissed that the magistrate was an old fool; nothing of the sort.
WILLIAM HAMMOND , (Policeman, A 373). I was in company with Dobbs when Bland was taken from the station to the police-court; he was in my custody—he asked me how I thought he should get on—I told him I did not know—he then asked whether we had got old Grantham—I told him I knew nothing of the case—he then said old Grantham was the man that took the lead, and sent his son to sell it, and received the money, and the money was spent in beer, and the coffin plates were shovelled off in shoveling he mould, and chucked on one side.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER. Q. How long was it after the men had been taken into custody, that Bland said this? A. I knew nothing about the others being taken into custody—I knew nothing of the case—this happened on Friday-morning, the 7th.
SAMUEL DOBBS (Policeman, D 226). On 6th October I assisted in taking Bland into custody—my brother constable told him it was for stealing these plates and lead—we stopped him in Praed-street, on Thursday-night; he was sober—he said his name was not Bland, and that he was not the foreman—my brother constable said, "I know you are the foreman, and you must go with me"—he went with us as far as the corner of Praed-street—when he was taken the second time, after running away from us, he said, "It was a bad job; it was only done for a drop of beer"—I had gone to these vaults on several occasions—I saw all the prisoners working there except Mead—Bland was the foreman—I looked at several of the coffins on these occasions, and I remember seeing one plate on a coffin, this is it (produced), with the name of Thomas Beaman on it—I saw that in September—the date on it is, "Died, 15th April, 1811."
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER. Q. You say that Bland left you? A. He did—he said he was not the foreman, and that his name was not Bland—he also said something else which I do not recollect—I can't say whether he denied having anything to do with stealing the plates—I can't say that I heard him state he was working above, and that he knew some plates had dropped off, but did not know what had become of them—he said that they had dropped off—I heard him say that he was working at the top—I did not hear him say that he did not know what had become of the plates—what he said the second time was, that it was only done for a drop of beer—I don't recollect his saying that he was in liquor at the time the things were carried away—I can't say he did not say so, he might, there was a confusion, and several people were there.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. These vaults are in the old church, are they not? A. Yes, on Paddington-green—there is a door which goes into the vaults underneath the church—I believe there are three passages—I was on duty in the neighbourhood; but I merely went down into the vault through curiosity to look at the coffins—that was at the latter part of September—I was not employed to look after them at all—the coffins did not stand on any frame-work, but one upon another, piled up on each side; they were not covered over at all—the vaults are about four feet or so below
the level of the ground—the coffins were fastened together by chains; I can't say whether they were fastened to the wall.
WILLIAM MERRY . I am surveyor to the vestry of St. Mary's, Paddington—in consequence of an Order of Council to close up the vaults, I employed all the prisoners except Mead—Bland was employed as ganger or foreman of the others—they were employed in the vaults that have been described, for about three weeks or a little more before this happened—their work was done in the day-time; they were not there at night—Bland had the key, and locked the door of the vaults—at the time I sent them to this work I told them to be careful, and to put the plates on again if any were removed; not to meddle with any of them, but to replace them if they came off the coffins—upon hearing that they were taken into custody I went to the vaults with the officers—I found several plates gone from the tops of the coffins—there is one plate here of Major-General Pilkington—I cannot swear to the plate, but I recollect that name, and it was either Lieutenant-Colonel or Major-General—I forget whether it was the same sort of coffin-plate as this—I had seen that plate nearly every day, I might say, for three weeks; for it happened to be in the fourth vault in passing in.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Is that a family vault of the Pilkington's? A. No; a public vault—there are four very long vaults, besides some private vaults—the men had to re-arrange the coffins in tiers, filling the interstices with mould, and then concrete the whole down into one mass—they did not rest upon any framework, but on the floor, piled up one upon the other—they had to take all of them down and re-arrange them—that was done to save expense in filling in, as they were piled in the vaults in a very careless manner, not in anything like order—our object was to close up the vaults and out off all communication with the church—in moving coffins that have been there a long time I knew that inscriptions would come off—I noticed a great many of the coffin plates that were loose—I don't think the elder Grantham was present at the time I gave the other men the directions I speak of—I put him on afterwards; I think a week afterwards—I knew him before as a hard-working, industrious man; I have employed him before—I saw him there, at work—I saw them all there three or four times a day—their hours were from 6 to half-past 5—the key of the vault was not brought to me; Bland had charge of the key—I saw the key hanging up inside the vault, but he locked up—one of the parochial authorities keep the key generally; I really don't know who—I cannot say how recently before this there had been any burial in the vaults; I believe not for some time.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. This is St. Mary's, Paddington? A. Yes; it is a parish church—there is also a district called Paddington, of which Mr. Boyd is the perpetual curate—several of the plates were loose when I went down into the vaults, and several were off the coffins; and in moving some of the coffins the outside fell to pieces.
LEONARD GADSDEN . I am assistant-surveyor. I was several times in the vaults before this happened—I believe I saw there a coffin plate with the name of Ann Steele on it—I believe this to be the same plate (one produced)—I can't say how long before 4th October I had seen it there; it may have been two or three days, or it might have been a week.
WILLIAM HOGG . I am parish clerk and sexton of St. Mary's. I keep the key, and have the care and custody of the coffins in the vaults—Mr. Boyd is the perpetual curate of the parish—he is the perpetual curate of Paddington—he is the minister of the parish church, not the incumbent of a district—the other ministers are incumbents of districts—St. James's is the parish
church; that is not where the burial ground is; that is St. Mary's; that was the parish church, hut St. James's is now the parish church, and Mr. Boyd is the incumbent—it is usually called the parish of Paddington; Mr. Dickenson and Mr. Worthy are the churchwardens—the vaults belong to the perpetual curate of Paddington—Mr. Buckley is the perpetual curate of St. Mary, Paddington, where the vaults are.
MR. COOPER. submitted that the indictment could not be supported, inasmuch as the coffins and plates were not the property of the perpetual curate, but of the executors and administrators of the deceased parties, and there was no Count laying the property in them, nor in a person unknown, as according to Roscoe and Archbold might have been done.
MR. RIBTON and MR. METCALFE urged the same objection, and referred to a case in 2 vol. East, p. 652, in which it was held that it would not do to lay the property in the churchwardens.
MR. GIFFARD contended that the case in East clearly referred to coffins interred in a churchyard, and not in the vaults of the church; that case depended upon a peculiar ground, viz.: that the churchyard was vested in the parson, the churchwardens having no property in it at Common Law; it would therefore become part of the freehold, and on being taken out again there would no longer be any property in the parson, but in the executors; in the present case, the coffins being in the vaults of the church, were as much personalty as anything else in the church; they were part of the church itself, and the churchwardens, and the sexton, as their servant, had a special property in them, as taking care of them; but if this was to be treated as a burial ground and not part of the church, then the perpetual curate had vested in him the whole of the appurtenances; the property would be in him, as having the care of it for the true owners, and bare possession as against a wrong doer was sufficient.
The RECORDER. "I entertain a very strong opinion that the goods are rightly laid, as being the property either of the incumbent or the churchwardens; the act specially vests the church, churchyard, and burial ground, in the incumbent subject to the right of burial in the burial ground; it seems to me that they have a special property in the contents of the vaults which are placed under the church."
Bland, Alfred, and Charles Grantham junior, received good characters.
CHARLES GRANTHAM junior,
CHARLES GRANTHAM senior,
NOT GUILTY .
ALFRED GRANTHAM— GUILTY .—strongly recommended to mercy.— Confined, Two Months.
BLAND— GUILTY .—strongly recommended to mercy.— Confined Three Months.
MEAD— GUILTY . of receiving.— Confined Twelve Months.
The prisoner pleaded
GUILTY . to the robbery only.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Month.
Before the Third Jury.
JOHN POTT . I have some land at West Bedford—previously to Saturday, 24th September, I saw the prisoner in my fields; I do not know that he had a gun then—on Saturday, 24th September, I saw him in my grounds with a gun in his hand—I should think I was about six or eight yards from him when I first saw him—I saw him on my land about 4 or 5 minutes, before I attempted to do anything with him—I did not say anything to him—as soon as he saw me he ran away, and I ran after him—I got within two or three yards of him, and he turned round and pointed the gun at me—this (produced) is the gun—he pointed it distinctly at me; I dropped on my knees, and be ran away again, and I ran after him and overtook him, and he turned round and presented the gun again, and I distinctly heard the hammer go down; upon that I knocked the gun on one side with my right arm, and seized him with my left; I secured the gun, and secured him, and threw him down on the ground; I brought him with me out of the field—he said he would get up and go with me, which he did till he got into the road; he then said I was choking him, and he released his handkerchief, and off he ran—I then took the gun into my own house and examined it—I went down to the Magistrate, Sir John Gibbons, and was very nearly shooting him—I examined the gun and found it was loaded—it never went out of my possession till I delivered it to the policeman; the look is one which you cannot make stand one way or the other, unless you hold it, it goes down; it will not remain on half-cock—there was a cap on the nipple when I examined it.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Is it in the same state now as it was when you were showing it to the Magistrate? A. Yes; this string was on it—it does not appear to me to go on half-cock—I was very much frightened, of course—I went down on my knees—I think I was about four or five yards from the boy when it was pointed at me—the Magistrate asked me if it had a cap on, and I showed it to him, I pulled it back, and then off it went.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. What was the effect of the discharge? A. It cut the cornice of the room all to pieces, and charred it.
NOT GUILTY .
The evidence, as given in the last case, having been read over, the Jury found the prisoner
GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy on account of his youth.— Confined Seven Days.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, October 25, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. SIDNEY, M.P.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; Mr. Ald.
MECHI; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and H. JAMES conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM BASS (Policeman, E 154). I produce a certificate. (Read: "Central Criminal Court, May, 1856; William Legrave was convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and ordered to be confined one year.") I was present—the prisoner is the man.
SUSANNAH LEAKE . I and my partner keep a shop in Oxford-street—on 11th July the prisoner came for a small padlock—the price was 3d.—I served him, and he gave me a two-shilling piece—I gave him change and he went away—directly he left I noticed that it was bad—I tried to find the prisoner, but could not—I put the florin in my private desk by itself—I saw the prisoner again on 29th September—I was sitting in the back shop, and he came to the door, and I knew him before he said anything—I went to him—he asked for a collar, a lock, and a chain, which came to 1s. 1d.—he gave in payment a bad two-shilling piece—I sent the shopman for a policeman—I marked the florin a little—I went to the prisoner and said, "You have given me a bad florin"—he said he was not aware it was bad, and he had just taken it—he then paid me with good money—he borrowed a shilling of a woman who was with him, and he gave me a penny himself—I said this bad florin was not the first he had given me; he had given me one before—he said I was mistaken—I did not give him back the florin—he wanted it, and said he would fetch the person he received it of—he went out and was brought back directly by the policeman—I showed the two florins to the policeman—the prisoner tried to snatch one out of my hand—he got it, but the policeman took it from him—I kept the other till we got to Marlborough-street, and there I gave it to the constable.
Prisoner. Q. When I took the two-shilling piece from your hand I took it to look at it; the policeman asked me for it and I gave it him? A. No; you snatched it.
Prisoner. Q. What do you swear to me by? A. By your features—I was inside the shop and had a view of you through the glass.
RICHARD BEACH (Policeman, D 210). On 29th September I was sent for to Mrs. Leake's—I apprehended the prisoner—Mrs. Leake had a florin in her hand—she handed it to me to look at it—the prisoner took it—I seized his hand and took it from him—this is it—this other I got at Marlborough-street Court—I searched the prisoner—there was nothing on him—he gave his address at 26, High-street, Poplar—I went and inquired—no such person lived there.
Prisoner. Q. When I took the two-shilling piece from the woman's hand you laid hold of my hand and I said, "Let go, and I will give it you?" A. Yes—you did not open your hand; I opened it.
The prisoner in his defence stated that he was only at the shop on the last occasion, and that he got the two-shilling piece where he went to work.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and H. JAMES conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM WARNES (Police-sergeant, S 47). I produce a certificate of a conviction. (Read: "Central Criminal Court, March, 1857; Mary Brown was convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and ordered to be confined nine months,")
I was present—the prisoner is the person.
HENRY FOLLETT . I am a butcher, and live in George-street, Camdentown—on Saturday, 24th September, the prisoner came to my shop about a quarter before 12 o'clock—she bought some pieces which came to 3 1/2 d.—she offered me in payment a shilling—I found it was a bad one directly—I told her so—she said, "It is not a bad one, but here is a good half-crown, take it out of that"—I said, "No; you were here three weeks ago"—she said, "I don't know that I was ever in the shop before"—she then gave me a bad shilling, which in the hurry of business I took, and kept it by itself—on the last occasion I sent for a constable—the prisoner asked me to let her go, and she said, "Take the half-crown and give me sixpence and take the two shillings," but I refused it and gave her in custody—I gave the two shillings to the officer—she tried to run away before the constable came, but I held her till he came.
JOHN POLLETT . (Police-sergeant, S 26). I took the prisoner on the 24th, and got these two shillings from the last witness—I took the prisoner to be searched, and half-a-crown, a sixpence, and 2 1/2 d. was taken from her; all good—she gave a false address—6, Conduit-street West, Camden-town—I went there but could not find anything about her.
GUILTY .†— Four Years Penal Servitude.
RICHANRD GREEN . I am a baker, and live at 23, Old-street—on 10th September, the prisoner came and purchased a half-quartern loaf which came to 3d.; he gave me a sixpence—I gave him change—after he left I looked at the sixpence and saw it was bad—on 13th September he came again and asked for two half-quartern loaves, which came to 6d.; he gave me a shilling—I told him it was bad, and I said he gave me a bad sixpence on the Saturday before—I called for an officer and gave him in custody—I gave the shilling and the sixpence to the constable.
Prisoner. I was not there on the Saturday before. Witness. I am sure you were.
EDWARD FLACK (Police-sergeant, G 34). I was called to the last witness' shop, and took the prisoner—I got this shilling and sixpence from the witness—the prisoner gave his address, 43, Bridgewater-gardens—I went, and it was a false address.
JOHN GRIFFITHS . I am a chemist and druggist; 41, Clerkenwell-green—on 16th of July, I saw the prisoner in my shop—I sold him two papers of cream-of-tartar—he gave me a bad shilling—I saw it was bad—I called an officer and gave him in custody—I gave the shilling to the officer.
EMMA MATTHEWS . My husband is a tobacconist—we live in Rosoman-street, Clerkenwell—on 29th July, the prisoner came to the shop—I sold him a pennyworth of tobacco—he gave me in payment a bad shilling—I saw it directly, and told him that it was bad, and that I had a few days previously taken a bad sixpence of him—he said he was not the same person—he was the same person—I shut the shop door and sent for a constable, and gave the shilling to him.
JAMES SMITH (Policeman, G 115). I took the prisoner on. 29th July—I got this shilling from Mrs. Matthews—the prisoner was taken to the Court and remanded, and discharged, as there was no other case against him—he gave the name of John Ash.
RICHARD LAWRENCE . I am a grocer, and live in Upper Whitecross-street—on 26th August, the prisoner came to my shop—I am sure it was him—he bought half-an-ounce of tea, and a quarter-of-a-pound of sugar—they came to 3d.; he tendered me a bad sixpence—I saw it was bad and I told him I felt it my duty to detain him—I sent for a policeman who took him, but I did not press the charge.
JOHN SPOKE (Policeman, G 260). I took the prisoner on 26th August—I got this sixpence from the last witness—the prisoner gave the name of John Dixon, 137, Golden-lane—I went there—his" father lives there, but he does not.
GUILTY .— Two Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. ELLIS and H. JAMES conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM ROGERS . I am an artist's colourman—on 13th September, about half-past 6 o'clock, the prisoner came and asked for two penny umbers—I served him and he gave me a counterfeit shilling—I saw it was bad, and told him so, and asked where he got it—he said he was out for a walk and was going home and a man met him and asked him to go for two penny umbers—I took him to the door, and said, "Let us see if we can see the man"—the prisoner said, "O no, it is a long way off; it is a man in a dark coat"—I saw the last prisoner Ash, standing at the private door of the next house, and there was another man standing on the step—I gave the prisoner to a policeman and he was discharged.
September, the prisoner came for two pairs of stockings; one pair for his father, and one Pair for himself—the price was 9 1/2 d.—he gave me in payment a bad shilling—I saw it was bad, and I called Mr. Bond and gave it him.
JAMES BOND . I am a draper—on 24th September, the last witness called me and gave me a bad shilling—I put it in the detector—the prisoner was in the shop—I asked him where he got it—he said first, "A man sent me in"—I said, "Are you quite sure, "he said, "Yes"—I said, "Can you show me where he is"—he then said, "A woman sent me in"—I said, "Do you know the woman"—he said, "No"—I said, "Is she outside"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Come and show me her"—I followed him to the door—he got out and ran away—I ran after him and brought him back to the shop, and sent for a policeman—I gave him in charge, and gave the shilling to the policeman.
Prisoner's Defence. I don't wish to go to any school.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth; and believing him to be the dupe of other persons.— Confined Three Months, and sent to a Reformatory for Five Years.
MESSERS. ELLIS and H. JAMES conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ELIZABETH SPARKES . I am assistant to Mr. Withers, a confectioner, 35, Long-acre—on Sunday evening, 18th September, I was serving in the shop—the prisoner came for a pennyworth of cough drops—he gave me in payment a shilling—I did not observe that it was bad I gave him change, and put the shilling in the till—which was occupied by myself—there was no other shilling in the till—I was the only person serving in the shop that night—I don't know of any way in which any other shilling could have got in that till—on the following morning I received a shilling from my master—I put it in my purse and kept it separate from all other money—I kept it there till Thursday, 22d. September—on that day the prisoner came again to the shop; he asked for twopenny worth of horehound drops—he gave me in payment a half-crown—I knew him, and in consequence of that, I gave the half-crown to my master; it was a bad one—a constable was sent for, and the prisoner was given in custody—I gave the shilling to the constable.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. What time was it when he came first? A. Between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening—our shop is lighted—I did not tell him when he came the second time that he bad been there—I knew him by his waistcoat and his face; his waistcoat was rather dirty—I never saw a man anything like him before.
SAMUEL WITHERS . On Sunday, 18th September, I took the money out of the till when I closed my shop—there was one shilling there, and no other—I put the shilling on the mantel piece, and gave it to Miss Sparkes in the morning—on 22d September, the prisoner came to the shop—the last witness called me and gave me a half-crown; I put it between my teeth, and pronounced it bad—I came out and told the prisoner I should give him into custody—I gave him in charge, and gave the half-crown to the constable.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you been serving in your shop that evening? A. No; nor my wife—I have no one else assists in my shop—I put the
shilling on the mantel piece; it was in the parlour all night—I can't tell how many lodgers were in the house that night, but the lodgers have not access to that parlour—my shop and parlour were locked up—I was down first in the morning, and found the door locked—I did not complain of Miss Sparkes for taking bad money—I said to the prisoner, "How many more of these have you got?"—I did not hear what he said; but he pulled out one in his hand—I don't know whether it was bad or good—I said, "I have taken so much bad money, I am determined to put a stop to it;" and, thank God, I have had none since.
MARTHA WITHERS . I am the wife of the last witness. On 18th September, I was at the parlour door, and saw the prisoner in the shop—he had the drops and gave the shilling—I was present on the Thursday, and saw the prisoner there—I am sure he is the same man.
ROBERT SPINKS (Police-sergeant, F 84). On 22d September, I was brought to the shop and took the prisoner in custody—I received this half-crown and this shilling—I found a good half-crown on the prisoner; no other money.
MR. BEST called
MARY NUGENT . I am the prisoner's sister; he is a labourer—I remember Sunday, 18th September; he was with me till half-past 9 o'clock in the evening—I went in a quarter before 12; he was in bed—he saw me part of the way home at half-past 9 o'clock at night—he lives in Dudley-street, St. Giles—I went to his house about 12—I had my dinner and tea, and he saw me home—he never was out of my sight that I know of.
Cross-examined by MR. ELLIS. Q. Are you single? A. Yes—I go out to laundry work—I lived two years and a half at Norwood, and three years in Alfred-street, Clapham-road—I dined with him that day; we are not particular what time we dine—I have dined to-day as well as I could—to the best of my belief, it was half-past 9 at night when he saw me home; it might be 10 for what I know; it was not 8 in the morning; I was at home then—I don't know how far Dudley-street is from Long-acre.
JURY to MR. WITHERS. Q. How many tills have you in your shop? A. One drawer, with four compartments in it; one is for shillings and one for half-crowns—I don't keep gold there.
COURT Q. Was there any other shilling there? A. No; there were sixpences and half-crowns, but no other shilling.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
EMMA BARNES . My father keeps the Star and Garter public-house, St. Martin's-lane—on 22d September, the two prisoners came in together, about half-past 11 at night—Williams called for half-a-quartern of gin—they came in together and stood talking together, with their arms on the table—Williams paid for the gin with a bad two-shilling piece—I saw it was bad, and gave it to my mother, who bent it in their presence, and returned it to me—it was put on the counter, and Williams took it up—both the prisoners were very impertinent, and said we had no right to bend the two-shilling piece—a policeman was sent for, and when he came, Williams threw the two-shilling piece on the seat behind him.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. Did they come in together? A. Yes; Williams called for the gin and paid the money—they were both detained
till the policeman came—Brett said we had no right to bend the two-shilling piece—Williams said it first and then Brett said it—I am quite sure of that.
WILLIAM WATSON (Policeman, G 135). I was called into the Star and Garter—I saw the two prisoners leading on the counter—I asked if they were the two men who had uttered a bad florin—I was answered yes—I said, "What has become of the florin?"—they said that Williams had it—Williams said, "I have got no two-shilling piece, nor have I seen one;" at the same time he threw this two-shilling piece behind him and I took it up—I found on Williams 1s. 6d. and 3 1/2 d. all good, and on Brett two penny pieces.
ELIZA PAYNE . My husband keeps the Hereford public-house in Soho—on the night of 22d September the prisoners came to my house together about half-past 9 o'clock—they went away, and between 11 and half-past 11 they returned—Brett came in and Williams remained outside looking through the door—Brett went through the house to the back—he came back again and called for a pint of porter and gave me a two-shilling piece—I bent it and I took away the beer, and returned the two-shilling piece to Brett and told him it was bad—he went away.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen Brett before? A. In the beginning of the evening—Williams was at the door at the time the pint of porter was called for—he was looking through the cracks' of the door—I could see him, having seen him the beginning of that evening—I saw him again the next morning at Bow-street—I saw them both in the Court—before I saw them I knew that they were taken up—the policeman came and fetched me.
Williams. Q. Did you see me through the crack of the door? A. Yes, I did; and when I went to the door I saw you.
COURT. Q. You went to the door and saw him? A. Yes; I said to my barman, "Go and watch them"—he went, and they abused him, and I went out and saw both of them—I am quite sure Williams is the man, and he had been there before and had bread and cheese in the evening.
THEODORE CLAISON . I keep the Blue Posts public-house in the Hay-market—on 14th September Brett came to my house by himself—he asked for a glass of gin—he was served by my barmaid, and she called me and gave me a bad florin, and she said in the hearing of Brett, "That is the man that gave me the two-shilling piece"—I had the two-shilling piece in my hand—Brett was not above three yards off—there was another party in the passage waiting for a dozen of wine that I was serving him with, and I said I would go and fetch a basket to put the wine in, and instead of that I fetched a policeman—I said to Brett, "Is that your florin piece?"—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he knew it was bad—he said no, he was not aware of it—I said I would have it inquired into—I had him taken in custody, and he was discharged, there being no other case against him—I gave the two-shilling piece to the policeman—my barmaid is not here.
GRACE JONES . I live with my brother, who keeps the Roebuck-public-house in Union-street in the Borough. On the afternoon of 9th September Brett came to our house; he brought a bottle and asked for half a quartern of gin, which came to twopence—he gave me in payment a counterfeit florin—I saw at once that it was bad, and I gave it to my brother in presence of the prisoner—he paid me for the gin with a good shilling.
RICHARD JONES . I am brother of the last witness—I keep the Roebuck—on 9th September, between 1 and 2 o'clock in the afternoon, my sister gave me a counterfeit florin, and said in Brett's presence, "Here is a counterfeit
florin he has given me"—I asked Brett where he got it—he said first of all he had taken it that morning, and afterwards he said he took it last night—I kept it, and he gave my sister a good shilling—Brett went out, and I followed him for half an hour or three quarters of an hour up and down various streets, and at last Williams joined him—they went the length of two streets looking about them—they then stood about two minutes, and I had a view of them, through a glass, in conversation—they observed me, and they went about the length of two streets—they then saw me coming, and separated—I pursued Brett and stopped him and gave him in custody—I gave the florin to the constable.
Cross-examined. Q. How far was Brett before you? A. Perhaps twenty yards—I followed him half-an hour or three-quarters-of-an-hour—I kept about twenty yards behind him—I am quite sure he is the man—I lost sight of him, certainly, but I am sure he is the person—I had the opportunity of seeing him in my house for some time.
MR. ELLIS. Q. Between the time of his leaving your shop, and your giving him in custody, how often did you lose sight of him? A. About four times—when I gave him in charge he did not deny having been in my house.
Williams. Q. How do you know me again? A. I saw you nearly two minutes standing near a doctor's shop; I saw you through the angle of the doctor's window.
CHRISTOPHER NEEDHAM (Policeman, M 60). Brett was given into my custody by the last witness—I took him to the station and asked him his name—he said James Wilson—he refused to give his address—he was taken before the Magistrate and discharged—I found on him a sixpence, and 4d. in copper.
Williams's Defence. I had no guilty knowledge of anything of the kind—I went and passed this, but did not know it was bad.
WILLIAMS— GUILTY . of uttering on 22d September.— Confined Nine Months.
BRETT— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and H. JAMES conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN WATERMAN . I am a market gardener—on Saturday-morning, 1st October, I was in Covent-garden market—the prisoner came and purchased three sacks of potatoes—he paid me 19s., and a half-crown, I gave him 6d. change—I put the money into my pocket, where I had no other shilling—in about twenty minutes I put my hand in my pocket, and found I had seventeen bad shillings—I went after the prisoner, and found him in Russell-street—I told him he had given me bad shillings—he said he did not give them to me.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. What time did the prisoner come to you? A. From 6 to 7 o'clock—I began at 5 o'clock in the morning—I had a stand there—I brought a ton and a half of potatoes, and a load of carrots—I had sold before the prisoner came to me to persons I knew by sight—I might have had four or five customers before he came—I had sold three sacks of potatoes, and some carrots by the dozen—I sold about ten dozen; some at half-a-crown, some at 3s., and three sacks of potatoes; 1 at 7s., and two at 8s.—after I sold the prisoner the potatoes, I saw him again in about five minutes—he came back about a stick that he had had the morning
before, and left money on it; and he brought me two more—I went about twenty minutes afterwards, and found him in Russell-street—the potatoes were put on a barrow in Russell-street—I said to the prisoner, "Do you know what you paid me?"—he said, "Yes"—I said "You paid me bad money"—I did not say, "You paid me nineteen bad shillings"—I put them over to him for him to look at them—he said, "I have nothing to do with them; I know nothing about them; you never had them of me"—he did not say, "I never had half that number of shillings"—I did not say to him, "Give me good money for them, or give me the potatoes back again"—I did not say to any man standing there, "Bring them back again"—the prisoner did not say he would call a policeman—I called one; the policeman came, and I put the money into the policeman's hand—I did not say he gave me nineteen bad shillings—I said seventeen.
Q. Did not the inspector count them and say, "Here are eighteen shillings," and did you not say, "I must have given the man that collects the toll one of them?" A. No; the policeman said, "There are only seventeen shillings," and I said, "I must have given two shillings, and a two-shilling piece to the toll collector"—he counted them twice, and I said, "I must have given two shillings to the toll-collector—I did not go to the toll-collector, and get the two shillings from him—I did not give the policeman a shilling for himself.
MR. JAMES. Q. Are you sure that when the prisoner came to you you had no other shilling? A. Yes, and after I gave the two shillings to the toll-collector, every shilling I had was bad.
Cross-examined. Q. Was anything said when the man was taken, about 19s.? A. I don't know—I counted the money twice, and found 17s.—when before the inspector the money was counted again by me and the inspector.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These seventeen shillings are all bad, four are of the date of 1817, and from one mould; three of 1820, from one mould; five of 1836, from one mould; and five of 1845, from one mould.
Prisoner. There was a man bought two sacks of potatoes of him at the same time I bought mine—he sold them for 14s.
The prisoner received a good character.— NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Tuesday, October 25th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE, Mr. Ald. HALE, and ROBERT MALCOLM KERB, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Seventh Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
922. WILLIAM HENRY JUDGE (13) , Stealing on 13th August27l. the property of Gerard Johnson; also on 8th October, 9 orders for the payment of 24l. 10s.; also on 20th October, 6 bonds for the payment of 1,000l. the property of Adolphus Pugh Johnson, his master; to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .
THOMAS CREASE**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
HENRY HARRISON†— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.*†— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, October 28th, 1859.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; LORD CHIEF BARON POLLOCK; Mr. JUSTICE WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; Mr. Ald.
LAWRENCE; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Fourth Jury
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock.
MESSRS. CLERK and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN GARDNER . I am one of the senior clerks in the General-post-office—in consequence of some communication from the Northwestern district office I made up a letter on 4th October, in the presence of Mr. Clare—I knew at that time that the prisoner' was a letter-carrier at that office—I rolled two half-sovereigns in a piece of paper, and secured each end with a wafer, they were the property of the Postmaster-general—Mr. Clare wrote the letter; I enclosed the two half-sovereigns and the letter in an envelope addressed. to Mr. Robert Simms, 4, Harewood-mews, Harewood-place, Oxford-street, London—the envelope was addressed by Mr. Clare—I put a mark on the half-sovereigns before I put them into the paper—after I had done that and fastened up the envelope, I gave it to Mr. Clare to post—(the fragments of a letter were here produced)—I have examined these fragments and am quite sure that they are parts of the letter that I gave to Mr. Clare—on the following morning, about 11 o'clock, I asked the prisoner about the letter—I made a memorandum of what passed—I asked him what time he came on duty this morning; he said, "About 5 minutes to 6;" I said, "What walk were you on?" he said, "The Gloucester-crescent walk;" I said, "Did you assist in dividing the letters fur the Gloucester-crescent walk?" he said "Yes;" I said, "Do you know anything of a money letter addressed to a Mr. Robert Simms, 4, Harewood-mews, Harewood-place, Oxford-street, London?" he said that he did not; I asked him if Harewood-mews was in his delivery; he said that it was not; I said, "What should you have done with a letter so addressed, if found with the letters of the Gloucester-crescent walk?" he said he should have put it out with the missorts—I then directed the officer Bingham to search him, and gave him into custody—Harewood-mews would not be on that walk—if such a letter was placed among the Gloucester-crescent walk the prisoner should have placed it among the missorts.
WILLIS CLARE . I am an Inspector of letter-carriers—on 4th October I wrote and directed a letter, addressed to Mr. Robert Simms, Harewood-mews, Harewood-place, Oxford-street—I saw Mr. Gardner enclose two half-sovereigns in it—it was given to me fastened with adhesive gum, between 4 and 5 o'clock in the evening of October 4th—I posted it the following morning, October 5th, about 5 o'clock, in the hole of the letter box at the chief office, St. Martin's-le-grand—notice had been previously given to those in charge at the Northwestern district that such a letter would come—after I had posted the letter on the morning of October 5th I went to the North-western office—I was there about 6 o'clock in the morning—a bag despatched from the chief office would reach the Northwestern district office between half-past 5 and 6 that morning—when I went to the Northwestern district office the prisoner was there, sorting letters at his seat—I saw him at his seat dividing his letters, and whilst dividing them he felt some letters with his thumb in this way (describing it)—he laid several letters on one side of him, and after he had divided the letters for the district he brought those he had laid on one side out from his seat and took them to the sorting-table; whilst sorting those letters he kept feeling them, and appeared a little agitated and as if he was secreting something up his sleeve; he was fingering the letters about in his hand and pushing about his sleeve—I then saw him leave the sorting table and go to the letter-carrier's door and take up a bag that had arrived—he took it with his left hand, keeping his right hand close up with his coat sleeve, under his fingers against his breast—he took the bag with his left hand across the office, and threw it up on the
table with his left hand, still keeping his right hand in this position; immediately after he had thrown the bag up, he went across the office and went out at the door leading to the letter-carriers' water-closets—he was absent about 7 minutes he never moved his right hand from that position from the time he took hold of the bag till he went out at the door—he never moved it from that position whilst he was in my sight, and he was in my sight till he went out at the door—when he returned his hands were loose, swinging about—he came in very fast at the door, as if he was in a hurry—it was about 7 minutes past 7 when he came back into the office—he then went to his seat and finished arranging his letters—soon after the prisoner went out that morning the fragments of a letter were shown to me—these are the fragments of the letter that I directed and posted that morning—they were shown to me by the plumber, Blackburn—the address which I put on the letter is a fictitious address—it is in ray own handwriting.
ROBERT DOWDELL . I am Inspector of letter-carriers at the Northwestern district—I had a communication from Mr. Clare, in consequence of which I noticed the letters which arrived on 5th October, in the mail bag—among them I noticed a letter addressed to Mr. Robert Simms, 4, Harewood-mews, Harewood-place—when I saw the letter it was signed "unopened"—it appeared to contain coin—I felt it for the purpose of ascertaining, in consequence of the information I had received from the head office—Mr. Clare had told me what he had done—the letter was enclosed under cover addressed to me—I put it at the sorting-table where the letters are sorted for the Gloucester-crescent division—the prisoner sorted there himself; he was alone at that table—there were other persons sorting at the adjoining table—I saw him sorting a parcel of letters, among which was this one addressed to Simms—I saw him leave his seat when it was about nearly half-past 6 o'clock—I instructed him to clear the letters round that were for his district—I saw him go to the table where he ought to have taken the missorted letters—he took some letters with him there—this letter containing coin, being missorted, he ought to have brought it to me.
COURT Q. Are all letters that contain coin felt, so as to ascertain whether they contain it or not? A. No; a letter of that description would be well told to contain coin from its weight, and from the manner it was made up; it was made up purposely that it might be easily seen to contain coin.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Are all missorted letters brought to you? A. All missorted letters for other districts come back to my hand—I did not mean to make a distinction between those containing coin and those not.
COURT Q. You said as this contained coin he ought to have brought it to you. A. Yes; that containing money especially, and all missorted letters for other districts—a portion of them may be for other walks in the same district, and they are disposed of by the letter-carriers themselves, but missorted letters for other divisions are brought to myself, the inspector—he did not bring this letter to me—after he had done with the missorted letters I saw him bring a mail bag from the door; he brought it up under my desk and threw it on the table, and immediately left the office and went out at the letter-carriers' door which leads to the water-closets—he was away about 10 minutes—shortly after that he went out with his letters for delivery.
Prisoner. Q. Is it usual always to bring the missorted letters to you? A. Yes, if it contains coin it is the practice—every letter known to contain
Coin, it is the duty of the letter-carrier to bring to the inspector—in nine cases out of ten you can tell when a letter contains coin—this one was visible; it was made on purpose.
HENRY BINGHAM . I am a constable attached to the Post-office—in consequence of instructions that I had received, I went on the morning of 5th October, behind the water-closets at the Northwestern district office—from where I was I could see into the whole of them—there are 6—I saw the prisoner enter one of them about 7 o'clock that morning—he fastened the door as soon as he came in; he then sat down on the seat; then took a letter from his front person somewhere; I could not see from where—he tore the letter about half way up from the bottom, right through the envelope, letter and all; he then tried to take something out; he could not do that; he then tore a piece of the letter right off, right through, and from that piece he took half-a-sovereign—then he took a second half-sovereign from another portion of the letter; then he carefully looked at both of them; held them up and examined them both; he then put a portion of the letter that he had, into his mouth, and chewed it and then threw it down the water-closet; he laid the 2 half-sovereigns down on the seat by the side of him; then got up and buttoned up his trowsers; then took the 2 half-sovereigns from the seat and put one of them into his mouth and swallowed it; he then put the second one in afterwards and appeared to swallow that; he then immediately left the closet—I was about 2-feet 6-inches from his hands when I saw this—I was not exactly behind him, I was sideways—after the prisoner had left the water-closet a plumber of the name of Blackburn was sent for—I remained at that water-closet until he arrived—I pointed the closet out to him, but I did not stop to see him open it—he afterwards brought the fragments of the letter to where I was—I took the prisoner into custody about 11 o'clock in the day, at the Northwestern office—I believe he comes in then with the collection—I searched him and found on him 9s. 6d. in silver—that was all—he was told by Mr. Gardner what I took him for—I was present.
Prisoner. Q. Are you positive that is the letter I put down the closet? A. Quite positive; I saw the letter in your hand, and the writing on it; and I am positive of the two half sovereigns.
WILLIAM BLACKBURN . I am a plumber—on the morning of 5th October, I was called by Bingham to examine a water-closet, about a quarter-past 7—I removed the water-closet; there is a trap under the pan that contains anything that might be put down—it would retain papers—in that trap I found those fragments of a letter that are produced; they were crumpled up quite in a round ball—there was no other letter in the trap—I took these pieces and showed them to Mr. Clare and Mr. Gardner that same morning.
Prisoner. I make no other defence than I am not guilty.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
MESSRS, SLIGH and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD FAUX . I was second mate on board the barque Margaret, an English vessel, belonging to the port of West Hartlepool—Philip Barker was master of that vessel—there were thirteen hands on board—the vessel sailed from Hartlepool on July 9th. with a cargo of coke; we reached Lisbon on
the 28th of the same month—when we were at Lisbon, the man who acted as cook and steward was taken ill; it was necessary to send him on shore to the hospital—I do not know his name—the prisoner joined the Margaret either on the 10th or 11th August, I cannot say which, to take the place of the man who was ill, as cook and steward—we left Lisbon on 11th August—the prisoner is a foreigner, a native of Rio Janeiro—he was at this time the only foreigner on board—after we had sailed on the 11th August, matters went on quietly until Thursday the 18th; on that day a few words passed between the prisoner and the men forward, but I did not know at the time what it was about—I did not hear what the words were; they were angry words—Captain Barker came out of the cabin and went to see what was the matter; the prisoner was there when he came out—the Captain asked what was the matter, and the men told him that the prisoner had refused washing their dinner things up, and he called the men d—d sons of bitches—the captain said he would not have any such work as that aboard the ship; he said he would not allow the prisoner to be imposed upon by any man aboard—he said that if anything was the matter they ought to come and let him know—he told the prisoner that he must wash the dinner things up for the men every day—there was nothing else said then—Cumming was one of the men who were present on that occasion—after that Thursday, matters went on quite well; nothing was the matter—the captain did not keep watch on the Sunday following, August 21st, till half-past 9 o'clock at night—the captain never kept his watch—I kept the captain's watch—the captain walked the deck from 8 o'clock till half-past 9, with me; at half-past 9 o'clock he left the deck and went to his cabin—we lived on deck—it was a cabin on the deck—the state room where the captain slept was on the starboard side—the chief mate's cabin was also on the deck, on the port side, opposite the captain's—my berth was on the starboard side, adjoining on to the forepart of the captain's—the chief mate, I, and the captain occupied that cabin on deck, and the prisoner slept underneath my berth, not below deck, but on deck also—he slept in the same cabin as I did, only underneath me—all these berths were partitioned off into separate cabins; the captain's was partitioned off by itself, and mine was the same, partitioned off by itself—the men slept in the forepart of the ship, in a house on deck—when the captain went into his cabin at half-past 9 o'clock, I remained on deck till 12 o'clock—there were five men in my watch—my watch was relieved at 12 o'clock, by the chief mate Mr. Sharp—at half-past 9 when the captain left the deck, he left orders with me to call him at 12, to let him know how the weather was; and at 12 o'clock midnight, when I was relieved, I went to the captain's berth—the captain was in bed; I told him that the weather was about the same, that it was a fine night, and how the ship was lying; he said "Very good, we will let her go that way till the morning;" I then turned into my own berth—the prisoner was then in his berth underneath me—I slept till 4 o'clock—I was then aroused by the chief mate, Mr. Sharp, to relieve his watch—I got up—the prisoner was on deck when I took charge of the deck—when I was first aroused, and getting up, he was sitting on my chest, putting his clothes on, in my berth—when I had dressed myself I went on deck—I saw the prisoner there, he went into the galley—I relieved Mr. Sharp at 4 o'clock, and he went into his own cabin—the watch went to their beds also—there was a seaman of the name of Joseph Cumming in Sharp's watch, the man I mentioned before—while I was on deck I saw the prisoner go to the galley, I should say that was about ten minutes after the mate had left the deck; he was in the galley
about ten minutes; and after Mr. Sharp had been in bed I should say about ten minutes, the prisoner went into the cabin where we lived—the cabin is all under one roof, but is separated off into different sleeping berths; you go from one berth to another—it is one cabin under one roof, and under that roof was the captain's cabin, the chief mate's cabin, and my cabin, all different compartments—I did not notice which compartment the prisoner went into—he went into the cabin which we took our meals in—in the centre part of the cabin is the place where we live, and the little places where we sleep are cabins out of that—the prisoner went in at the cabin-door; I cannot say whether he went into any of the small cabins, or where; he then came out on deck, and a few minutes after he returned to the cabin again—he then came out again—he might have been about ten minutes in the cabin, at the longest, both times—when he came out the second time, he went forward on the starboard side and turned round as if he was looking to see if I was watching him—when he saw me standing looking at him, he came aft again into the galley—I still walked to and fro in front of the cabin, across and across; he then came out at the galley door on the port side; he went forward on the port side; he stood still a second or two, and when he saw me looking at him he returned in to the galley—I then went forward to the fore part of the ship; I was talking to two of the men, and while I was talking to them I heard a scream—that was perhaps 10 minutes after I had seen the prisoner return into the galley—I did not see him leave the galley on this occasion—the time between my seeing him go into the galley and hearing the scream, was about three or four minutes at the outside—when I heard the scream, I jumped on to some spars on the port side—I saw the prisoner standing, holding a five-barrel revolver pistol in his right hand; standing threatening the men, with his right hand up—he was standing about three yards from the entrance of the door where the men lived, where they slept—he was standing with the revolver in his right hand, and a knife in his mouth—Cumming was standing at the entrance-door of the place where the men lived—this (produced) is the revolver and this is the knife; he held it in his mouth by the blade—the revolver belonged to the captain—when I saw Cumming, the fore part of his shirt, and his cheeks were covered with blood—he said, "The villain is murdering of us"—on his calling out that, I ran into the cabin to arouse the captain—when I got to the entrance of the captain's state-room, where he slept, I called to captain Barker; I called his name out twice—I received no answer—the door was open—it had been open all night—it was open at 12 o'clock—I went in—I went to take hold of his leg, and in so doing I discovered blood running under my feet—I immediately looked up to the captain's face—he was lying with his head nearly off his body, in a complete pool of blood; he was lying on the bed, not exactly on his back; he had a little cant on one side; his throat was cut, and his head was nearly off his body—the bed clothes were uncovered from the chest upwards—I rushed out of the captain's cabin to call the chief mate—I found his door shut—I called out, "Mr. Sharp," twice—I had to break the door open; I could not open it from the outside—I called twice and he answered; he got up directly—I told him the captain was murdered—he said he was locked in—I found that to be so—there was no key in the door—the door was locked; I burst it open—there were marks of blood near the key-hole; I could not find the key—when the chief mate came out, after I had burst the door open, I saw the prisoner standing amidships, outside the starboard-cabin talking to the men—he then made an attempt to come aft to the
cabin where the chief mate and I were—I shut the cabin door, and I and the chief mate ran inside—the prisoner had the revolver and the knife with him at that time—I shut the door until we got something to arm ourselves with—there were no other fire-arms nor weapons of any kind on board the ship but this revolver—I took a screwdriver, and the chief mate took a saw—I then opened the cabin-door and we both went out on to the deck to secure the prisoner—he was on deck standing holding the revolver, threatening to shoot the men that had been asleep, the watch below—there were four or five men standing there—the chief mate went on the top of the long boat to watch his movements—I then went to the fore-part of the vessel and mustered my own watch, and got them armed with anything they could find about the deck—the prisoner then ran into the cabin—the mate immediately went and shut the cabin door and shut him in, and the other men on board armed themselves with anything they could find—I watched the prisoner in the cabin, through the glass-door—he was in the after-cabin—I saw him breaking the drawers open; I saw him break two writing desks and the chronometer—the drawers were in the after-part of the cabin, not in the captain's state-room—I do not know what he broke the writing desks with, I could see him smashing; he had the knife in one hand and the revolver in the other—he broke them most likely with the revolver—the chief-mate was at the top of the cabin, looking through the skylight, watching the prisoner's actions—he broke two or three pieces of glass, and threw them in the prisoner's face—the prisoner snapped the the revolver twice, pointing it towards the mate—the caps on it went off—the mate said, "Ah, you villian, it is not loaded"—after that the chief-mate called to me to look out, that the prisoner was coming towards the door—he came towards the door—I then opened it—the prisoner came out and threw his arms up, with his back towards the poop, the cabin—he had not the revolver with him then, nor the knife in his hands, that I saw—when he threw his arms up he said, "Me kill the captain; me kill no more peoples"—the mate then struck him on the right shoulder with a scrubbing-brush, he was on the top of the cabin above the prisoner, and I struck him with a belaying pin—we secured him between us—he had on a wide sash twisted round his waist—this (produced) is it—I searched the sash, and found this knife (produced) concealed in it; also this tin box (produced) containing pistol, bullets, and caps to suit the revolver—there were about a dozen and a half of caps, and eight balls—they were concealed in the sash round his waist, in the folds of the sash, and the knife also, tucked between the sash and his body—the pistol balls and the caps were both in the same box—we secured him and put him into the long boat—when we secured him and took the things from his sash, both his bands were bloody—after we had secured him, we mustered the crew and went to the captain's cabin, and saw the captain—on searching the after-cabin, I found this blue frock (produced)it belonged to the prisoner—he had it on at 4 o'clock in the morning—when we took him he had this striped frock on—he had this striped frock on that morning, and this blue one over it—I got this large knife (produced) from the chief-mate, that same morning—there were spots of blood on it—I took the two knives to the prisoner about half an hour or an hour after we had him in irons—I showed them to him, and asked him which knife he killed the captain with—he said the big knife—I asked him what he was going to do with the small knife that he had on him; that is the one that I took from the sash; he said to stick some people, suppose they strike him—they are ship's
knives; the carving knife was generally used in the galley, the prisoner used it—the other is one of the table knives—they were both used in the galley, they belonged to the ship—there were spots of blood upon them, and they had been fresh sharpened on the grindstone—I showed the prisoner the blue frock at the same time, and asked him how it came torn and lying in the cabin—he said, "When I go to cut Joe's throat, Joe tear it"—"Joe," is Joseph Cumming, the seaman I mentioned before—I did not find the key of the mate's door—it was found afterwards by the boy—we buried the captain on the fourth day after this occurred, in the ballast, we bore up for Falmouth, and arrived there on 31st August—the ship was at this time on the high seas—the captain's name was Philip Barker.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How many days had you sailed from Lisbon before this happened? A. Eleven—we were bound to Pugwash, in North America—we bore up to Falmouth in consequence of the weather and the winds, being the nearest English port we could go to—there had never been any quarrels on board before, nor yet after; only on this one occasion that I have mentioned—I could not' say exactly what that was about—I never saw anything between the prisoner and the men before—he was the only foreigner on board—the captain had been very kind—the quarrel was about washing the men's things up—I do not know what passed between them, only he called them d—d sons of bitches—I had not perceived any signs of excitement about him before in the least—the quarrel I refer to was just a few words—I never saw the captain behave at all out of the way to him—he was a very particular man, and liked to see things done properly; he never behaved badly towards him—he was a very kind man, but he was very particular—the captain said that no one should interfere with the prisoner; if anything was the matter they should come and let him know—he did not call out to the captain, after he was secured, as if he were still alive, to come and assist him—he was placed in the boat for two days—I did not go into the boat with him—none of the witnesses were in the boat with him; we only put him in, and secured him—the boat stands in the middle part of the ship's deck—I cannot say whether any of the others assisted in placing him in the boat or not.
Q. Did not he call out for the captain to come and help him, and did not one of the men say, "Captain, man! why, you have killed the captain?" A. Nothing of the kind; never such words—he was in no excitement at all after this had occurred, he came out and threw his hands up—when he was in the cabin he seemed excited—he was not excited when he threw up his arms and said, "Me kill the captain, me kill no more peoples"—that was when we secured him—we found when he was smashing the desks that he was looking for powder, when he found out that the revolver was not loaded—by the way he was breaking and destroying the things, we supposed he was breaking the things to find powder—he was breaking away at them right and left, smashing away at them—he broke everything as he came to it; he started with the drawers, then he broke the writing desk and the chronometer—he would not expect to find powder in the chronometer, of course—he broke the glass of it—the chief mate was locked in when I went to call him, and I saw marks of blood on the door—Cumming was cut in the cheek from the eye down; he gave the alarm—the prisoner tried to shoot at the chief mate—he snapped the revolver twice at him—I knew of no cause for this.
COURT Q. You knew of no cause for his conduct towards the captain? A. None at all.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Before this commenced, did you see any symptoms of insanity about him? A. None in the least; he always gave proper answers, and always attended to his duty—he slept underneath me, in the same cabin—they were two open berths in the same cabin—when I was aroused at 4 o'clock in the morning, he was in that cabin, sitting on my chest putting his clothes on, partly dressed—I cannot say whether he had been out before that or not; I was asleep—I merely slide the door to when I go to bed; there is no button or fastening—I suppose the chief mate opened it when he came to call me at 4 o'clock—I did not see him.
MR. POLAND Q. Was the revolver loaded? A. It was not loaded; it had caps on.
COURT Q. Where was the revolver usually kept? A. On a little brass hook in the after cabin; it always hung there—if the prisoner had come into the after cabin he would have found it there—the after cabin joins the captain's cabin.
An interpreter was here sworn, who interpreted the evidence of this witness and the following witnesses to the prisoner.
Prisoner (through the interpreter). Me liked the captain very much, and every man about the ship. The chief mate asked me that morning to wash up the things; he struck me; I then went to the cabin to tell the captain, and said, "Don't let him strike me." I told the captain he was calling me bad names; the captain prevented it. I did not kill the captain—the chief mate, who has spoken against me, struck me. Me never broke the glass of the chronometer.
JOSEPH CUMMING . I was a seaman on board the Margaret, and sailed from Hartlepool in her—I remember the cook falling ill at Lisbon, and the prisoner being taken on board in his place—I was not in the habit of talking to the prisoner—he can speak good English—I remember the time when Captain Barker was killed—a few days before that, just a few words took place between the prisoner and one or two of us, about washing the dinner things up—he would not wash them up, and we wanted him to do so—with that exception I had had no difference with him at all—the morning the captain was killed, it was my watch below—I had turned in at 4 o'clock—after I had fallen asleep I was awoke by the prisoner—he awoke me by touching me on the right side—I had turned in about half an hour when this occurred, about five minutes after 4—on feeling him near my side I asked him what he was doing; he told me that he was looking for some coffee—I told him that it was at the head of my bunk—there was a spare berth where we used to sleep—he did not speak; then I asked him if he had found it, and he never spoke—I told him that the boy Jack would tell him where it was—he made no reply to that—I asked him what time it was, and he said that it was 7 o'clock—I lay down and fell asleep again; I never took any more notice where he went to—he went away—presently I was awoke again by his cutting me on the face with the carving knife—I saw that it was the prisoner—I got hold of him, and held him, and threw the carving knife from him—he then made two stabs at me with a table knife in his other hand—this is the knife he made the two stabs at me with—the struggle lasted about a minute, and in the end he ran out into the forecastle—my thumb was cut a little bit—when he ran out on the main deck I rushed after him, and called out, and said that he was trying to murder us—I did not see either of the knives fall from him when he was running—I had the carving knive then, the one which he cut me on the face with—I got it from him—I picked that up while I was following him, in the forecastle—I
knocked it out of his hand—when I had followed him out on deck I saw him pull a revolver out of his breast—he had this small knife in his mouth—at that time the other men of the crew had been roused—when he pulled out this revolver he said, "Me kill the captain; me kill five more men; go below"—he said, "Go below" to me—I did not go below—I saw the second mate, Mr. Faux, run into the captain's cabin—I went into the forecastle and got some of my clothes on; by that time the other men of my watch got up and put on their clothes at the same time—I gave the knife to the chief mate, Mr. Sharp—I did not hear any screaming—I sung out, "The villain is murdering us"—I sung out as loud as I could, "The villain is trying to murder us!"—that was about half-past 4 o'clock—I did not tear the prisoner's blue smock at all that morning while he was with me—I did not tear any frock of his at all.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you assist to put him into the boat afterwards? A. Yes—I did not remain long with him when he was put into the boat—I cannot say who remained with him; some of them did—I did not hear him call for the captain then—he did not say a word about the captain when he was put into the boat—he was only on board about a fortnight—I had not seen much of him during that fortnight—he was about the decks, and cooking—he always attended to his duties—I never noticed anything particular about him—I did not see a thing that could induce me to think that he had any motive for what he did—he had no quarrel; only just those two or three words about washing the things—that was four or five days before the death of the captain—during that time he had always been quiet in his conduct—nothing farther happened after the complaint about washing up—I did not notice anything strange in his conduct after he was confined—he did not seem very much excited—we had him in irons—he talked to me and to the other men after the captain was killed—he said that he killed the captain because he gave him too much work—he gave no reason why he had attacked me.
THOMAS PARKIN SHARP . I am the chief mate of the barque Margaret—on the voyage from Lisbon to Nova Scotia, on Sunday, 21st August, at 12 o'clock at night, I relieved the second mate, Faux, and kept watch till 4 o'clock—at 4 o'clock I called Faux—when he came on deck I went to my cabin—Cumming was also in my watch—when I went to my cabin the key of the door was in the lock outside—there was no lock on the inside, nor yet any handle to the door—there was a temporary button put on the inside, fastened with what we call a tack—when I turned in I fastened that button on the inside—after I had been a short time in my cabin I was aroused by the second mate coming there—he called out to me—I got up momently and found that I was locked in—as soon as I found I was locked in I kicked at the door—it was burst open and I got out—I did not notice the key-hole of the door at that time—I did afterwards—there were finger marks on it, with blood, about fifteen inches above the key-hole, and also around the key-hole, just as if there had been the pressure of a bloody hand upon it—the key was gone; it was not in the lock—the captain's cabin and mine were abreast of each other—I went into the captains cabin and then I found that he had been killed—I did not look for the captain's revolver—I sung out for it—a boy that was in the cabin at the time told me that the prisoner had it—I remained in the cabin for a few moments—the prisoner was afterwards taken, after a little trouble—when the prisoner was inside the cabin I was on the top, outside—I "catched" hold of the revolver with my hand through a broken pane of glass—the prisoner was then in the after
cabin—I broke three of the panes, and the first pane that broke he up with the revolver and snapped it in my face—the cap exploded—I did not say anything to him till I had broken two more panes in—when he came up the first time I dashed some broken glass in his face that had come from the broken pane, and I hit him on the bridge of the nose—that was to disarm him if I could—it was afterwards that I laid hold of the revolver—he snapped two caps at me—it was the third time when he came up to the sky-light that I laid hold of the revolver—the chronometer was underneath me—I did not get the revolver from him, he stabbed me in the hand when I had hold of it through the pane, and I was obliged to let go—he came up to the skylight twice after he had stabbed me in the hand—he reached up from the inside—he had to put his knee on to something and come up—every time he came up I chucked a handful of blood in his face—as soon as I saw him make for the cabin I sung out to the men, and as soon as he came out of the cabin door I struck him with the brush and he was secured—I took possession of the sash, and Cumming gave me the large knife—this occurred on the high seas—after the prisoner was secured I went into the captain's cabin—I found some blood on the floor; nothing else—there was no purse there—that was found in the after cabin—it was the captain's purse—there was 6l. 10s. in it—it was handed to me—it was not found in my presence.
JAMES ANDERSON HANNAH . I am an apprentice on board the barque Margaret—I remember the voyage from Lisbon towards Nova Scotia, and the day that the captain was killed—I remember having some conversation with the prisoner on 21st August, the Sunday previous to that day—he asked me for some gunpowder to put on his little finger—I was in the galley with him—he had torn a little bit out of it with the sail-hook—I told him that I would ask the captain for some for him, and he said, "No, no;" but I did—I jumped out of the galley and asked the captain for some—the captain told me to tell the prisoner to go to him—he went to him—the captain asked him what he wanted with the gunpowder—he said that he wanted to put it on his finger, and the captain told him that powder was no good; that he was to get a bit of rag and wrap round it—the prisoner said, "No, powder and vinegar will make it dry, and make it good"—the captain said, "Very well, I will give you some by and by"—he did not give him any, because the prisoner turned in directly after—the day after the captain was killed I had some conversation with the prisoner—I asked him what he killed the captain for—he said, "You know very well, Jem; the captain give me too much work"—then he said, "A good job for you Jemmy you came out of the cabin with the second mate"—he said, "Suppose you no tell me where the powder was, I cut your throat all the same as the captain's"—he told me the day after that conversation how he had killed the captain—he was not in the long boat then; he was on the after hatch, against the galley—he had come out of the long boat—he had irons on him—I said to him, "I would not be in your shoes for half-a-crown," and then I asked him how he killed the captain—he said he put his hand over his whiskers and the knife went all the same—he did not say anything else-after it was found that the captain was killed I looked in the cabin, the same morning that he was killed, Monday morning; I found the key of the mate's door under the table, in the ship's cabin, where the captain lived.
MR. METCALFE submitted that, without the production of some document, there was no legal proof that the vessel in question was a British vessel. MR. JUSTICE WILLIAMS was of opinion that there was primd facie evidence of the
fact, the vessel being proved to have tailed from an English port, with an English crew, and therefore the production of any document was unnecessary.
GUILTY .— DEATH .
Before Mr. Justice Williams and the First Jury.
MR. METCALFE, for the prosecution, offered no evidence, the Grand Jury having thrown out the bill.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS ALDIS . I am a carman in the employment of Mr. Hanson, of Botolph-lane—I live at 8, Sweet-apple-court, Bishopsgate-street, on the first floor, and the prisoner lives on the ground floor. On Saturday evening, 8th October, I went home to get a cup of tea, I had a slight quarrel with my wife, and she went downstairs—soon after I heard the prisoner abusing my wife, and I came down and said, "What are you abusing my wife for?"—I was standing two stairs from the passage—I said, "Talk to a man; don't abuse a woman"—he made no more to do, but up with his hand, and catched me between the shirt and handkerchief, and pulled me down on the ground—he was in his shirt only; I laid hold of the tail of his shirt, and he kept on pulling me by the collar to get me in his room; I kept by his shirt, and when he pulled me into his room, his shirt gave way and he fell down on me—he then tried to get my ear in his mouth—I got my thumb in his mouth, and I gagged him off me; he made no more to do, but turned round and got me by the windpipe, so that I was nearly choked, and I called out "Murder!"—a policeman came in and knocked his knuckles to get him off of me; he then took the poker out of the fire, and struck at the policeman first, and then struck me on the head with it—I was knocked senseless—I came to my senses in Guy's Hospital on Sunday.
Prisoner. I do not remember anything about it.
Witness. He was sober—I had never seen him before—this was on Saturday evening.
CHARLES BARRETT (City policeman, 644). On Saturday evening, 8th October, I was called to the house in Sweet-apple-court—I saw the prosecutor there, lying on his back, and the prisoner standing over him, naked, with both his hands at the prosecutor's throat—I immediately took out my staff, and struck his knuckles several times till he left his hold; he immediately flew to the fire, where there was a red-hot poker; he took it out and struck at my head with it—it was red-hot as far as the end of the poker goes, I could discern that—he struck at me with the hot part of it; if he had hit me with the hot part, it would have killed me, it broke the partition of the room in three places—he then made for me again, and I made my escape and sought further assistance—when I came back, I saw the prosecutor being conveyed to the doctor's.
NELSON BARKER . I am a cloth-worker, and live at 14, Sweet-apple-court—on this Saturday evening, 8th October, I heard a cry of "Murder!"—I went to see what it was, and saw the prosecutor lying on the ground, and the prisoner on the top of him, naked, except his shirt—I tried to get him off, but could not—the policeman came in and told him that if he did not leave go, he would hit him on the head with his truncheon—he said, "Will
you?" and he ran to the fire-place and picked up the poker, and made a blow at the policeman, and split the panel or the wainscoting; he missed the policeman—the policeman went for further assistance, and I followed him out—finding the prisoner did not follow, I went back; again, and caught hold of Aldis and dragged him out—I found him lying on the ground, bleeding from just above the eye; he was insensible—I dragged him out into the passage opposite, and he was afterwards taken to a hospital.
GEORGE WHITE MARTON . I am house-surgeon at Guy's Hospital. On 8th October, Aldis was brought to the hospital between 7 and 8 o'clock—I examined him there—he was suffering from a clean cut over the left eye-brow, and a severe bruise round the left eye—the cut went quite to the bone; it was from an inch to an inch and a half in length—it could certainly have been produced by this poker (produced)—at first I thought there was a fracture of the skull, but it did not prove so—he is still suffering both from the cut and from the injury he received round the eye—I do not think that both might have been produced by the poker—I understood from him that he had a kick there, besides the hit from the poker—there were two distinct blows given—I think the wound was inflicted by the sharp part of the poker—I did not see the slightest signs of the poker having been red-hot; there would have been, unless it was a very rapid blow—it must have been a rapid blow to have produced a clean cut—if it was a very rapid blow, I conceive that a clean cut of that sort could be produced by a red-hot poker without showing any marks of the poker being red-hot—the rapidity of the blow would prevent the singeing that would otherwise take place—supposing the wound to have been produced by the poker, it must have been used with considerable force.
JOHN CAREY (City policeman, 631). I went to 8, Sweet-apple-court, and saw the prisoner on this night—he was on the ground floor, with only his shirt on; he was then pacing up and down the room, defying any one to come near him; he had nothing in his hand at that time; the prosecutor was lying in a house opposite; I directed his removal to the hospital—I went to the door to try to apprehend the prisoner; he flew to the fire-place and took the poker again from the fire, and used it in a threatening manner towards anyone who should come near him—it appeared to me that he took the poker out of the fire; it was partly hot then; it was not exactly red-hot—there was no other poker; I brought this away.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.— Confined One Year.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, October 26th, 1859.
PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., M.P., Ald.; MR. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. CONDER.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
The prisoner, being a foreigner, had the evidence explained to him by an interpreter.
FREDERICK DRIPFELL POULTER . I keep a stock and bonnet warehouse, 21, Watling-street—the prisoner was in my employ as porter from September, 1858—he left me on 14th May—in January I took stock, and missed some Scotch bonnets and other things—in April I charged the prisoner with stealing them; he denied it—on 26th, September, a policeman called on me, and in consequence of what he said, I went on 28th September to Mr. Hawei's shop in Old-street—I found some Scotch bonnets and caps that I identified as my property—I am sure that they had not been sold—on one occasion, when the prisoner was in my service, I saw him at my warehouse with another man, named Richardson—the prisoner had the power of going to where these caps and bonnets were, and taking them—he was frequently left by himself in the warehouse and had opportunities of taking them.
Prisoner. Did I not buy of you once to the amount of 4l.; once 10s.; and when I left, 10s.? Witness. The prisoner, when he left, bought four caps, for which he paid me 4s. and previous to that, he bought a parcel for a captain of one of the Hamburgh steamers for 2l. 10s., but none of those correspond with what was found—he did not say he wanted to send them to Germany as a sample—he said they were for a captain of one of the Hamburgh steamers—he wanted to take orders and to sell goods, but I would not allow it—I missed other goods besides the Scotch caps—I understood that he gave lessons in German to some English gentlemen after 5 o'clock—I was the last person in my warehouse, and turned the key—I was the first person who opened it again.
Prisoner. Was not the reason I left your service because you only gave me 8s. a week, and occupied me from 9 o'clock in the morning till 10 or 12 at night? Witness. I took the prisoner out of charity—I had two other agents on the premises, they made it up to 14s. or 16s. a week—I never took up his time except on one occasion after 6 o'clock—I did not give him a bad half-crown that was bitten—I never missed giving him his money but once, when I was ill at home.
JOSEPH OWEN . I am assistant to Mr. Hawei's, a pawnbroker in Old-street—I produce two dozen of Scotch bonnets which were pawned on 5th July, for 1l. 4s., by the prisoner—this was the duplicate that was given—the bonnets were shown to the prosecutor, and he identified them—they were the same that were pawned by the prisoner—there was a woman with him.
Prisoner. Q. Would you know the woman again? A. No, I should not—amongst the caps there were some ornamented ones—I am quite positive that you are the man that pawned them—you have been in the shop with linen and other articles—you gave your address 15, Park-street.
COURT Q. In what name were they pawned? A. In the name of John Lewis—he has pawned before in another name.
JOHN HARVET (Policeman). I went to the house of Richardson in Union-street, Spitalfields, on 3d October—I put some questions to Richardson, and he produced to me thirteen duplicates by which I traced property to different pawnbrokers—I took the prisoner in custody at 57, St. Mary-axe.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not search the house? A. Yes; and found nothing—it was not a female who lives with a man of the name of Lewis who gave me the duplicates—I am aware that Dodridge who is coming up has been convicted of felony—I am aware that Rotchford lives with
Dodridge—I don't know that she goes by the name of Lewis—I am aware that on the late trial Rotchford came, and the Judge said before he came he ought to come with clean hands himself.
THOMAS FOWLER . I am assistant to Mr. Dobree, a pawnbroker in Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square—I produce six caps pawned on 26th April, I believe by the prisoner, in the name of Garlen—these are the caps—this is the duplicate I gave.
ROBERT RICHARDSON . I am a cap manufacturer, and live in Union-street, Spitalfields—I have known the prisoner since December—I have seen him at Mr. Poulter's when I went there—he called at my shop with a brown paper parcel containing caps and other things, about two months ago—he said he came from Mr. Rotchford's—I went there and bought eight or nine dozen caps for 8l. or 9l.—they were afterwards brought by the prisoner and another person—I gave them to the officer, and four duplicates which were given by Rotchford or Garrett.
Prisoner. Q. Amongst the caps you had were not some cloth caps? A. Yes; and some were cotton—they were not all alike—I could get the same sort from other shops—the duplicates were bought in Rotchford's shop from him or you—I bought a duplicate relative to a watch—I gave it up—I recollect having received a duplicate from Rotchford which was out of pawn, and the date was cut off—it was two years old—you offered me some German cloth to make bonnets—it was all contained in a brown paper parcel.
SOPHIA PODRIDGE . I am a single woman—I live in Well-street—I was living with Rotchford about two months ago—I saw the prisoner at Rotchford's—he had some duplicates of caps; some figured caps—I have seen about a hundred—I was present when Rotchford lent him some money to get them out of pawn—I went with the prisoner to get the caps out—we brought them to Rotchford's place, and the prisoner said there was a man in Union-street would buy them—I went there with him and took the parcel, and he took it out of my hand and went into the house.
Prisoner. Q. Have you been convicted for felony? A. I have been convicted, but not for thieving—it was for receiving goods; and you came and gave evidence—I have lived with Rotchford—I can't tell that Rotchford was convicted in Germany, and on that account he fled to England.
Q. Are you aware that Rotchford has been a bankrupt, and that since he has altered his firm and put the name of Dodridge, your name, over the door of the house? A. I let it and had my name over the door—I don't know that Rotchford bought several other duplicates relating to caps and trousers, and other articles—I don't know that you received 498 thalers for goods and cloth—I never saw it—you were employed as an errand man at Rotchford's for 10s. a week—I never went with you but once to pawn some pictures—I never went with trousers and other things—I did sell some silver paper; that was stolen—I did not sell any gold paper.
FREDERICK DRIFFELL POULTER (re-examined). These caps found at Dobree's I missed in April—I charged the prisoner with taking them; and these other sort of caps which were found at another place—I believe the whole of the hundred caps to have been stolen from my premises—these which I have in my hand were made on an experiment—these I can swear have never been sold—these others have been my caps, but I cannot say they had not been sold.
Prisoner. Q. Are the caps with ornaments yours? A. I know nothing about the ornaments; they can be put on or off at any time—the caps I
can swear to—there are only four or five manufacturers of these goods—I can swear to these.
Prisoner's Defence. I am 32 years of age. I was engaged in my own country, but was obliged, on account of some offence for which I was convicted, and had six weeks imprisonment, to fly to England, about a year and a half ago. I had a great many letters of recommendation from German merchants; I was employed at a merchant's, and while I was there I was pardoned by the king on account of the baptism of the young prince, and received a passport which will prove that at the present moment I stand here as a man whose character is not tainted; my character can be proved by Mrs. Fish, with whom I have been living. The reason I left the prosecutor was he gave me only 8s. a week, and even this not regularly; he gave me on one occasion a bad half-crown; he did not act like an English gentleman, but a man who was not ashamed to enrich himself with my drops of blood. He knew that I gave lessons to several English gentlemen, and he employed me over time in order to prevent me. The character of the other witnesses will be known to you by their own confession before you; the case itself you will find is not at all a case which will form even a charge, but will fall to the ground. According to the prosecutor there must have been forty dozen of caps stolen, which could not have been taken out of the warehouse described by the prosecutor, because he always had the key of his shop with him; he was the first who opened the shop, and the last in the evening who locked the shop; this little room would not hold such a quantify. Amongst the caps I sold to Richardson were several cloth-caps, some velvet and Scotch wool, which I bought from the prosecutor and several other manufacturers; I bought 4l. 4s. 6d. worth, and 10s. worth of the prosecutor, to send them to Germany to a friend, who was to take orders and send them to me. I have pawned them in several pawnbrokers' shops. This great lot of caps would have to be kept somewhere, though I have always lived at Mrs. Fish's in St. Mary-axe, and this lady has never seen the things in my room, and I could not speak English to sell them some-where else. This woman has painted her name over the door, and she has bought stolen goods, and has lately been obliged to give back a lot that she had bought She has only lately sold stolen goods, and she has pawned the caps in question, and given the money to the witness Rotchford. If you consider this you will let me go, I having been already four weeks in prison.
LOUIS ROTCHFORD (examined by the Prisoner). Q. Are you aware that I have entered into a negociation for caps with a house abroad? A. As far as I know you have written a letter to a house, and have not received an answer—you spoke to a neighbour about them—I don't know the cause of your leaving Mr. Poulter—I know you gave me 2d. to go to the ship Neptune to fetch a parcel that came from Germany—I know at one time you received some jewellery, you told me you had got a passport to go back to Germany—I did not see the passport—I never bought any duplicates—I did not see that amongst the caps there were some German cloth-caps—I did not run away from Germany for falsifying documents—I have been a bankrupt here—I did not transfer my goods to the woman Dodridge—she was my housekeeper five years—she left me two months ago—I was not ordered a fortnight ago to give up some stolen goods—you showed me a lot of duplicates, and begged me to advance the money to you to get the goods out and to sell them.
me about twelve months—I don't know whether that is the whole time you have been in England—you were brought to me—I am aware that you received a bad half-crown and a bad two-shilling piece that the prosecutor gave you for your wages—I am aware that you have been kept till 5 o'clock, and had to go to Lisson-grove or Islington—I have seen your passport—I never saw anything improper in your conduct—I never saw anything extravagant—you did not get your money regularly—your place was always open—I never saw forty dozen caps in your possession—if there were two caps you would not dare to bring them in my place—you have been living on dry bread and water—when you came to my house you had a pint of coffee and a penny loaf for your breakfast—you had a friend who was a true friend, and would give you a sixpence or a shilling—you some-times got your wages and sometimes not—I am aware that you gave lessons in German to Mr. Christie and to another young man.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, October 26th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CUBITT, M.P.; Mr. Ald. GABRIEL; and MR. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Third Jury.
MESSRS. TINDAL ATKINSON, and SMITH conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH ALLEN . I am the wife of Edward Allen, a baker—I reside with my brother, who keeps a general grocery shop at Bethnal-green—I assist him in his business—on 4th October, about half-past 6 or a quarter to 7 in the evening, the prisoner came to the shop for half a pound of cheese, which came to 5d.—she offered a bad half-crown—I did not take it—I saw it was the same date as two which my brother had taken the previous evening—I said to her, "You are the faggot that paid your addresses here last evening; but you shall not get off like you did then"—I caught hold of her, but she struggled and got away—the servant ran after her and caught her—I afterwards gave her in charge—I gave the half-crown into the policeman's hands—I told him about her having been there before—she said, "If I have passed one, I have not passed three"—I saw her on October 3d, the previous evening, when she had a loaf—she paid for it, but I did not see the money which was passed—my brother served her—I examined the till on Tuesday morning, and saw two counterfeit half-crowns and a good one—they were all the half-crowns that were in the till.
DANIEL COALES (Policeman, K 287). On 3d October I was in the Bethnal Green-road, about 400 or 500 yards from the prosecutor's shop—the prisoner was standing by a shop there when the prosecutor's servant came to me—she tried to escape—I told her she was supposed to have been passing bad money at the shop—she said that she did not do it—I said, "You must go back with me and see about it"—I received these three half-crowns at the shop (produced).
HENRY LEE . I am a baker, of 8, Green-street, Bethnal-green—on Monday, October 3d, about 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came to my shop and asked for half a quartern country loaf, which was 3d.—she
gave me a counterfeit half-crown—I took it up and looked at it—I thought it was a bad one—I tried it in the detector and bent it—it was bad—I asked where she got it from—she said she took it at Brick-lane, where she worked at some brush-works—I gave it back to her and said, "If you have really taken it from where you worked, you had better take it back and change it"—she said, "I shall call again to-morrow for some more bread, and I will tell you if I get change"—the next night I saw her in the custody of the policeman—I do not recollect the date of the half-crown.
Prisoner. I was not out on Monday evening.
Witnesses for the Defence.
MART ANN WHITE . I am a widow—I have known the prisoner these two years—during that time I never knew her to do anything of this kind—she has been living with me ten months—on this Monday night she was ill in bed—she never was out from the Saturday till the Tuesday afternoon, when she took her work home—I was not out myself, and she was very ill in bed—she had a violent cold; she was taken with retching coming home from her work on Saturday evening—there is no one else living in the same house with her—she lodges with me, and has done since last Christmas—I do not take in any other lodgers—a Mrs. Davidson lives in the house besides me; she lives down-stairs—I have got two rooms up-stairs, a sitting-room and a bed-room—the prisoner sleeps with me.
Cross-examined. Q. You knew this girl was in charge before the Magistrate? A. Yes; I did on the Tuesday evening—I went up to Worship-street to see after her—I was not called in there—I was not in time—I knew she was remanded—I waited for her mistress to come and give her a character, and she was not there—I did not go to the Magistrate's office when she was remanded—Mrs. Davidson has seven children; the eldest I suppose, is about eighteen, I cannot say—they live in the house with me—they do not come into my rooms—the prisoner was up for a little while after dinner on the Monday—she did not go outside the door—I went out to the top of the street and back again, but no further—Mrs. Davidson is not here, nor any of her children.
JANE DAY . I am a married woman—I live at No. 1, Grove-street, Grove-cottages, Mile End-road—my husband works at Mr. Clark's factory—I know the prisoner; I know where she lodges—I know Mrs. White by going backwards and forwards to see the prisoner—I saw her on Monday morning between 10 and 11 o'clock—I called in there, and she was then lying on the bed with her clothes on—I did not see her afterwards that day.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. TINDAL ATKINSON, and SMITH, conducted the Prosecution.
CATHERINE KELLY . I live at No. 12, New-street, and also keep a stall at the corner of the Custom House—I have kept it there upwards of twenty years—on Friday, 14th October, the prisoner came to my stall; she wanted a penny bottle of ginger beer—she gave me a bad shilling—I bent it, and told her it was bad—she said "Pray let me go, here is a good two-shilling piece for you"—she threw the two-shilling piece down on the stall—I said "If you were to give me the Mint and the Custom House you should not get away now"—I said "You have been here before on the 5th or 6th of this month, and gave me another bad shilling"—there was a mob of people
round us—she begged me to let her go, but I said No; I would not—I had the shilling in my pocket which I had taken on the 6th or 6th, and I showed it to her and asked her if she knew that shilling—she wanted to go, but I would not let her, and then the policeman came up—she snatched both the bad shillings out of my hand—I gave her in charge to the policeman; she had them in her hand then—I kept the first shilling in a bit of paper in my pocket—I am quite sure she is the woman who passed the first bad shilling.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. You managed before the policeman came up to get a crowd round? A. Yes; I had hold of her—it was near Billingsgate—directly I found the shilling she gave for the ginger-beer to be bad, I said "I have been looking for you for a long time"—I then seized hold of her—I said "You are the woman who passed another bad shilling on the 5th or the 6th—directly I said I would give her in charge, she said "Pray don't give me in charge; here is a good two-shilling piece; I have a large family"—it was on the 5th or 6th of the month that she came first—on that day I found out that the shilling was bad, a minute after I had it; but she had gone, and I could not see her—she looked a respectable woman—she had been to me several times before—on the 5th or 6th she had a pennyworth of swan-egg pears—this one makes nineteen bad shillings that I have taken since last Christmas—these are the only two that I have found out who gave to me—I was very glad to get hold of the person who gave me the bad money—I have been there upwards of twenty years—I have known the witness Foley for eight years—he did not come up before the Magistrate on the 14th; I asked him to come as a witness, but he said that he could not leave his work.
MR. ATKINSON. Q. When you discovered the shilling to be bad in the first instance, after she had left your stall, what did you do with it? A. I wrapped it in a piece of paper and put it in a corner of my pocket—on the second occasion, when she came for the ginger-beer, I knew her directly she came across the road.
WILLIAM BALDWIN (City policeman, 537). On Friday, October 14th, about half-past 12 o'clock, I saw a crowd in Thames-street, and went up to it—I saw Mrs. Kelly there holding the prisoner by the hand—Mrs. Kelly said to me "I shall give this woman into custody, she has given me a bad shilling, and she gave me one last week"—the prisoner said that she did not know it was bad—I took hold of the prisoner's right hand with my left—she had got a porte monnaie in her right hand, and this bag (produced), I took hold of her wrist, and took the porte monnaie and found in it a good half-crown, a good shilling and a bad one—she had two aprons on; there was a pocket to the under one, but not to the outer one—when we got to the station, she put her hand under the top apron and took out eight good shillings, a good sixpence, and ninepence in copper money—at the time I had hold of her right hand, she had something in her left—I tried to see what it was, but she put her hand to her mouth and appeared to swallow something—she had in the bag three different purchases of meat and some potatoes—they were wrapped up in different papers.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you receive a piece of mutton from Mrs. Kelly? A. Yes; the prisoner laid it on the stall—I only produce one bad shilling—I received the florin from the prosecutrix—I know the man Foley; he was in the crowd that afternoon, standing on the left-hand side of the prisoner; I wan on the right—he said at the time that the prisoner had swallowed something—he said, "She has put a shilling in her mouth"—he was not
examined before the Magistrate—I could not tell that she swallowed the shilling—I did not state before the Magistrate what Foley said about it, because he was not there.
ROBERT FOLEY . I am a porter, and live at No. 8, Well-yard, Royal Mint—on October 14th, I saw a collection of people in Billingsgate—when I got up the policeman had the prisoner in custody—I was at the left-hand side of her—I saw her put her hand up to her month, and I saw a shilling in her hand—I said to the policeman, "She has got it in her mouth"—I said it loud enough for the prisoner to hear—no coin had been mentioned—I saw clearly that it was a shilling.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you not there before the policeman? A. No; I was not—there was a good number of people standing round when I got there—I did not push the people aside to get there; I got close to the woman—I have known Mrs. Kelly eight years—I only saw one shilling—the policeman had hold of the prisoner by the right hand—I did not see the policeman first take her in charge—when I first saw him he had hold of the woman—I do not know how long he had had hold of her; about three or four minutes, I expect.
CATHEINE KELLY (re-examined). That is the same shilling that she passed on the 6th or 6th—the other was the very same as that—I know this, because I bent it nearly double—I had it by me long enough to know it.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. TINDAL ATKINSON and SMITH conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD CORNISH . I am assistant to Mr. Parks, ironmonger, of 140, Fleet-street—I live at 11, Blackfriars-road—on 13th October, about a quarter past 4 in the afternoon, the prisoner came into the shop, and asked for a pair of hinges, which came to 3d., and when he was served, with them, he placed on the counter a 5s. piece, which I found to be counterfeit—I asked him where he got it from—he said from his master, Mr. Mackness, a tailor, of Newgate-street—I gave him into custody—I had never seen him in the shop before, to my knowledge—I gave the 5s. piece to the officer.
WILLIAM FEAST (City policeman, 330). I took the prisoner into custody on Thursday afternoon, 13th October—I took him to the station-house—I searched him and found 1 1/2 d. on him—he gave me an address where he worked, a Mr. Mackness, in Newgate-street—I found a Mr. Mackine, a tailor, in Newgate-street, but not Mr. Mackness—I received this bad 5s. piece from the last witness.
Prisoner. Q. Did I not say my address was Cross-court? A. No; Cross-street—I went to 2, Cross-street, as I was told at the station, but could not find anything of you—when you were remanded, you asked me to go to No. 2—I did not say, "I wish you were at the d—I before I ever saw you"—I found a tailor in Newgate-street who said you had been working there.
MR. ATKINSON. Q. What took place at this tailor's when you went there? A. The tailor told me that the prisoner had been in his employ for one day; that he had received no money whatever, his work was so bad; if it had been passable, what he did would have amounted to 1s.—the prisoner stated at the station that he had received 1s. 6d. from there, and this 5s. piece, and that he had been there a week—he had only been there one day.
GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.
WILLIAM BISHOP . I am a member of the firm of Bishop & Blundell, wholesale and manufacturing stationers, carrying on business in Old Fish-street-hill—we have a factory in Little Britain—the prisoner has been in our employ nearly 8 years—he was a foreman at the factory, over a certain number of hands there—his duties were to give out the work, to keep an account of it, to mix the colour for them, and to fill up his time in any way he could to our advantage—there was no written agreement—when he first came to us we had but few hands so employed, and his time was occupied principally in working; subsequently, as the business increased, he had less work to do, and it became more a matter of overlooking—his hours were from 8 in the morning to 8 at night, with intervals of an hour at dinner, and half an hour at tea—when he first came to us he had 24s. a week, and it was increased till it was 1l. 12s.—he was also allowed to charge if he worked any overtime, at the rate of, I believe, 6d. an hour—it was also his duty to render an account on the Saturday of what work each person had done during the week—he had done so for some years before 27th August last—I was at the pay table on Saturday, 3rd September—he came on that day and presented the accounts in the usual manner—I produce an account which he presented to me—"3d September; 4 reams of extra enamel, 12s. M. A. Downea."—we had a person of the name of Downey in our employ—I believe her name is Mary Ann Downey—on his presenting that, I paid him the 12s. in the bill—he returns me the bills, sometimes on the following Saturday—we roll them up and keep them, putting the dates—Mr. Blundell marked this in my presence, "3d September"—he returned that in the usual way, otherwise we should not have had it—I was not present when the prisoner was asked to give some explanation; I came in subsequently—I was present when he was given into custody—I was present at the factory during the four weeks before 3d September—I always saw the prisoner there, employed about his ordinary business—it is quite impossible for us to say whether the work mentioned on the bill has been done by anybody.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Had he any private office of his own? A. No—when he first came, he did the sort of work mentioned on that paper—he was a very good workman—we have about thirty workwomen—I might, perhaps, know all their names—we had a woman named Downey up to the 20th August—we have no one of the name of Downe; it is his way of spelling it—he does some work now, occasionally—there was certain work requiring more skill than the average workmen possessed, which I required him to do—there was some paper requiring a second coat, which he generally did—he had to go through the workrooms and see that the men were working, and he had to mix and compare colours, and to give out the work—the overlooking was to see that the work was properly done—while the work was in progress it was his duty to see that they were actually doing it—there are several places where the men are at work, so he had to walk about; a great portion of the day was spent in that—he had no place that was appropriated exclusively to himself—there was an open room, which had once been a counting-house; that he had the use of—the workmen were not engaged in working there—I had access to that room, and any one else that I happened to know, or had any business with—none of the workmen went there—it was the sort of place where he would put his hat and coat when he came in—I think he dined on the establishment, but I am not
sure—if he had done so, I do not know whether he would have dined in this room—I do not know what time he dined, or whether he took the hour he was entitled to for dinner—I looked after him pretty well—there are several rooms of a comparatively private nature, where he might have had his dinner if he had liked—there was one room above, where I have some-times seen him eating; it was not strictly private—I do not know whether he had tea on the establishment—he was entitled to half an hour for tea—he was supposed to be there at 8 o'clock in the morning.
ROBERT BLUNDELL . I am a member of the firm of Bishop and Blundell—on 27th August, I was at the pay table when the defendant came in and presented the accounts of the various work people—I produce one account, in his writing, which he rendered me on that day, headed, "Downe, one ream, imperial; second coat, 12s. 3d.—I understand by that, there was work done of a certain kind to some paper of the size called imperial, by a person of the name of Downey—I know we had a person of that name there some time—I paid him 12s. 3d.—on 10th September I was at the pay table; he then produced a similar account, and a similar account on 17th September, the following week—both these amounts were paid him by me—on the week following September 17th, he again came to the pay table—I looked over his accounts, and picked out one headed "Downey," similar to these, and I asked him who Downey was—his answer was "I am Downey"—I forget the next remark that I made, but his answer was "I did the work, and I have kept the money"—I then asked him why he did not make out the account in his own name, if he had done the work, and he said if he had made it out in his own name it would have been objected to—I said, "If you have done this work it must have been, in our time"—he said he had done it during his dinner hour, and at leisure times—that was the whole of his answer to the best of my recollection—I was not in the factory during these three weeks that I have spoken of, more than once or twice—the description of the work mentioned is done there—it is an ordinary week's work for one woman—the amount is 12s. 3d.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know so much about it as to know that it is an ordinary week's work? A. I do—there are about thirty or thirty-five women on our establishment, and they average about 12s. a week—we pay them by the piece—they are bound to be there by a certain time—some work more expertly than others—the maximum which they earn in a week is, I should say, 13s. 6d., and the minimum 9s.—they are supposed to be at work from 9 till 1, and from 2 till 8, I believe—I do not profess to go to the place very often, and I am not sure whether they leave at half-past 7 or 8—at this time there were about thirty women employed, more or less—I know that a woman of the name of Downey left at that time—I do not know whether her place was filled up—I do not know that it was kept open for her—I have no doubt that the prisoner had taken two or three on during that time—forty is the maximum that we have employed at a time—we are always open to forty if we can get them—I know that the prisoner had a room of his own that he used for writing—he had a desk and some writing materials there—it was a room that was originally used for some peculiar kind of work that he did, and which required a small room where there was no dust nor air—he was uninterrupted there while he did the work, I think—I do not know whether the other workmen came in there—he did not say anything when he presented these pieces of paper, until I asked him about this one—I gave him the money of each account to pay for the work that had been done.
MR. FRANCIS. Q. It was your usual practice to have these amounts produced, and to pay them then? A. Yes—George Legg was there on the last occasion when the prisoner came, and he took him away.
MART ANN DOWNEY . I was at work for Messrs Bishop and Blundell up to the 20th August last—I received my week's wages, and then left on I account of my confinement—I have not worked since for them—I have not received any money for work done since I left there—there was no other woman there at the name of Downey that I was aware of.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner when you left? A. Yes, on the Saturday evening—I asked him if my board would be vacant when I came back, if he would keep the place for me—he said, "Very well."
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
The prisoner admitted that he had published the libel, but handed in several papers to the Court which he considered justified him in having done so. The Court after looking over the papers, intimated that they formed no justification, and could not be read to the Jury. The Jury upon hearing the prisoner's admission of the publication, found a verdict of
GUILTY .— To enter into his own recognizance to appear and receive judgment if called upon, and to keep the peace towards the prosecutor.
FOURTH COURT.—Wednesday, October 25th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. MECHI, and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq. and the Seventh Jury.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES COLE . I was a corporal in the 1st batallion of the 5th regiment of foot, quartered at Colchester—I left on 14th September last, without permission; and came up to London; I got there about 9 o'clock that night—I was at that time dressed in my regimentals; my number in the regiment was 534; I had on a scarlet tunic, a forage cap, blue regimental trowsers, white belt, and a black stock; there was a bayonet holder on the belt—on Saturday, 24th September, I met a man named Collins, in Fleet-street; I had never seen him before—we went to several publichouses together; it was between 10 and 11 when I first met him, and I was with him till 3 o'clock in the afternoon; I left him at a public-house called the "Three Tons," kept by a man named Baker, in West Harding-street, near Farringdon-street—he left me outside the door—I slept at that house that night—I had never been in that house before—I was still in my regimental dress—Collins came the next day, Sunday, again at about 10 o'clock; he was there when I came down, standing in the tap-room with another man of the name of Grieves—they both left the house together, and left me there; they returned in about half-an-hour with the prisoner—he had a bundle of clothes with him, it was a civilian's dress, the clothes I have on now—I took off my regimentals and put on the civilian's dress—at the time I was
changing the dress the prisoner said, "For God's sake don't let the things be seen, because there will be six months for each of us;" and he also said, "Don't let them be seen because there will be 1l. for it"—after I had taken, my regimentals off I gave them to the prisoner, and he tied them up in a handkerchief; we thin left the house together—the prisoner took the bundle to his house; we all went to his house; he was there about 2 minutes; we remained outside—when he came out we all went to a public-house called "The Swan"—we remained drinking them for several hours—I was tipsy when I left the Swan—when the prisoner took the bundle to his house he told me I could sail there when I liked—he gave me 2s. at the Swan—I did not give him any money for the civilian's clothes—the prisoner left me at the Swan—I was taken into custody early on Monday morning on the charge of being a deserter—I had never seen the prisoner before he came with Collins and Grieves to the public-house—when I was in custody at Horsemonger-lane I wrote to the prisoner to ask for my clothes, but he took no notice of it, so I wrote to the police—that was after I had been a week in gaol.
Prisoner. Q. What name did you give to Collins? A. I did not give any name to him—when I wrote to you I gave the name of James Thomas—my proper name is James Cole—there might have been seven or eight persons in the Swan besides Collins, Grieves, and myself.
MR. CLERK. Q. At that time you were in plain clothes? A. Yes.
JOSHUA THOMAS (Policeman, M 259). On the morning of 26th September I apprehended the last witness, on a charge of desertion—he gave the name of Edward Thompson—policemen get 1l. for apprehending a deserter—he was taken before the Magistrate and committed to Horse-monger-lane gaol—I received a letter from Cole on 5th October; this is it (produced), in consequence of that letter I went to the recruiting depot, and from instructions I received from Captain Winslow I went to apprehend the prisoner—I found him in the Strand—I asked him if his name was Charles Stewart, he said, "Yes;" I asked him if he knew a young man named Edward Thompson, he said "No;" I told him that I had got a letter that I had received from Thompson with respect to some soldier's clothing; he said, "There was a soldier that I was in company with, that left a coat and cap at my place on 25th of last month"—I told him that I wanted the clothing—I then went with him to his house at 3, Gunpowder alley, Shoe-lane, into a room on the third floor, and found concealed between the bed and the mattress this tunic, (produced), and this forage cap the prisoner reached from the top of a cupboard and gave it to me; the number inside is 534 and 5, and the same number is inside the coat; the buttons were off the coat when I found it—I took the prisoner into custody and told him he was charged with aiding and assisting a soldier to desert—I have been looking for Collins but have not been able to apprehend him.
THE COURT was of opinion that the facts of this case did not constitute such an aiding to desert or conceal, as to come within the statute, and therefore directed a verdict of
NOT GUILTY .
MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
—we have been married nearly 21 years—on 23d September last, about 2 o'clock, I was up in my own room; my husband came home at that time; he called me names when he came in—he had been drinking—he then took hold of a table-knife, which he got out of a drawer, and said he would run it in my inside—he attempted to do so—I screamed out, and the old lady down stairs came up and made me go out of the room—I went into her room, down stairs, for an hour—about 3 o'clock I went up stairs again, thinking his passion might be over, but he began in the same way—I then went down again into the shop to another person, where I was ironing—while I was there I heard a noise up in my husband's room, as if he was breaking my things—I went up stairs to the room, the door was locked—I asked him what he was breaking up the things for, and asked him to open the door—he opened the door, and I took the rail of a chair that he had broken, and struck him—he then took the leg of the chair and beat me on my arm and fingers and cut my head open—I bled very much—I screamed for the old lady to fetch an officer, and an officer came—I was taken to St. Bartholomew's Hospital—I was attended upon by a surgeon—these wounds were inflicted by my husband with the leg of the chair.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not strike me all over? A. I struck you twice.
GEORGE MANNING (City policeman, 278). On 23d September I went to the house, 22, Field-lane, about a quarter-past 5—I saw the prisoner and the prosecutrix there—she was bleeding from a cut in the head—I asked the prisoner what he had been doing; he said, "I struck her with that chair"—this is a portion of it (produced)—I took him into custody—he had no bruises himself; he had a sort of scratch on the hand—I took the woman to the hospital.
THOMAS CHARLES LANGDON . On 23d September I was one of the house surgeons of St. Bartholomew's Hospital—the prosecutrix was brought there—I examined her; she had a lacerated wound on the scalp, and a dislocation of the last joint of the forefinger of the right hand—I also found a fracture of one of the bones near the left wrist—there were no bruises—such an instrument as this would produce the wound on the head—I can't say whether it would produce the wound on the wrist; that might be produced by a fall—I left her on 3d October; she was under my care till that time.
GUILTY on the second count.— Confined Eighteen Months.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, October 21th, and Friday, October 28th, 1859.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Sir JAMES DUKE. Bart., M.P., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY, M.P.; Mr. Ald. ALLEN; and Mr. Ald. HALE.
Before the Lord Chief Baron and the Second Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
There were two other indictments against the prisoner for larceny, upon which MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL, for the prosecution, offered no evidence.
MR. SOLICITOR-GEGERAL, with MESSRS. WELSBY and CLERK conducted the prosecution.
MARGARET ALLEN . I am the wife of Robert Allen, who lives in Gough-street, Poplar; he is in the service of the Trinity Company—the prisoner and the deceased came to lodge at our house on 10th November last—the deceased took the lodgings in the name of Mr. and Mrs. Royal; they took a back parlour—the prisoner was then working for a firm in Whitechapel as a shoemaker—they seemed to be living together on middling terms—her health was particularly good—I knew she was in the family way from the time she came; she had told me so; I could see it—I remember the child being born—I was present; it was on 28th April—there was a midwife there at the time of the confinement; her name was Medwin—she had a very good confinement, and a good getting up; she was able to go about, about a fortnight after her confinement—I know that, Mrs. Medwin is herself just now lying in—on 31st May I heard a moaning sound in their room, which attracted my attention; that was before 3 o'clock in the morning—I had not heard any moving about the room before that; I did afterwards—at 4 o'clock my husband knocked at the door and inquired what was the matter—the prisoner answered him; he said that his wife had got the cramp in her inside—I told him to get some brandy for her, and bring the baby to me, for the baby was crying—my husband brought it to me—there was some brandy sent for, to his sister's, I believe; the prisoner went himself for it—he took it into the room—I went into their room that morning about 7 o'clock, the first time; the deceased was vomiting then—the prisoner was not in the room; he came in afterwards—he said he had fomented her stomach with hot water and flannels—I don't think he said any more—I asked her what she had been taking, and she at that time said she had taken nothing; but further in the day she said she had had some coffee on the night before when she went to bed—they had been out together the day before, all the afternoon, and came home in the evening; she had had nothing out only a little beer—I made her some tea several times, and made her gruel and arrowroot—I applied some hot fomentations to her stomach, with flannel—I procured those flannels from out of the house; but that was not until the forenoon—I did not see any flannels in her room—when I first questioned her she said she was very sick, and said she had a very violent pain in her stomach; and further in the day, when I made inquiry again, she said she had a burning sensation in her throat, and her feet and legs were numbed to the knees, and a very severe pain in her stomach; that never left her—during that day she vomited a great many times, more in the afternoon—her bowels were acted upon a great many times—she was too bad to be moved—in the evening I went to look for a doctor, because I found the prisoner had not brought one; and then I went to look for her mother—I had asked the deceased twice if the prisoner had gone for a doctor; she said she did not know, and I said, "Well, if one does not come soon I will go and fetch one"—that was about 4 o'clock in the day—I then went to the parish and told Mr. Smith, and he gave me a powder to take home to her, and he told me to get an order from the house, and he would attend—I gave her the powder in sugar and water—after I had given it to her I remained with her about a quarter of an hour, not longer—the prisoner was not there during that time—I then went after her mother—she came about 8 o'clock, I think, and she was with her almost the whole time until her death.
COURT Q. Is that so; was the mother with her up to the time of her death after she came? A. She went home twice—she went home on Thursday once, and I think it was on the Wednesday night the other time—I am not certain, but I know on the Thursday she went home, but the deceased had her sister with her.
MR. WELSBY. Q. How long was her mother absent on these occasions? A. She went, I think, on the Thursday night, and did not return till the Friday morning—the doctor first came on the Tuesday about 8 o'clock at night; that was Mr. Smith—he had been and gone before I came back from the mother's—on the Wednesday, I had a conversation with the prisoner about her condition—I can't say what time of the day it was—the prisoner asked me to go to the doctor's with him—I said first, that she was very ill and it looked very suspicious, and he said he was quite willing to go to the doctor's if he had any one to go with him, for he had a statement to make to the doctor—I said I would go—I went with him to Dr. Webb's—he went into the doctor's surgery alone—I stood outside—he is the Union doctor—I waited in the surgery while the prisoner went into an inner room; when he came out, I went back with him home—we returned together—on the way, I said that I thought she would not get better—he said, "Oh, yes, she will, she is all right now"—I asked if he thought she had taken anything to injure herself—he said, no, he was quite sure she had not, and he was innocent; he had given her nothing—he used a good many pots and bottles in his trade—they were kept in the room in which they lived—I asked him if there was anything in them that she might have taken; and he said, no, he never kept anything in the house that would hurt her—there was nothing more said by us concerning the deceased on that occasion—nothing was said about poison that I remember—she seemed very well on the Wednesday, and seemed to be getting better up to the Thursday at 11 o'clock; the vomiting had gone off then—it went off in the afternoon of Wednesday, and the purging also—the mother was absent in the morning part of Thursday—I think she came back after dinner—I had been attending to the deceased during her absence—she became ill again about 11 o'clock—she vomited a great deal, and was purged as well—the prisoner was in and out on the Thursday morning—he left the house on Friday morning—he went out several times on the Thursday—he slept with my son on Thursday night—I asked him to sleep with him—just as he was going to bed, I told him that the doctor had said she could not live over thirty hours, and he said, "Oh, nonsense, she will get better'—he got up between 5 and 6 on the Friday morning—I did not get up till 7—he was then gone from the house—I did not see him again while she was alive—I saw the prisoner take a bundle out of the house on Thursday—I can't say what time it was—I did not see that bundle afterwards—the deceased was much worse on the Friday—I don't remember that the doctor told her anything about her condition; it was to me that he had said that she could not live thirty hours—I had a conversation with the deceased on the Friday morning.
DR. ROBERT WEBB . I attended the deceased woman from the Tuesday night between 11 and 12, up to the time of her death, with Mr. Smith, my partner—she died at 2 o'clock on the Friday night, or Saturday morning—I saw her on the Thursday, and on the Friday two or three times—she was dying on Friday morning—I told her that she could not live, that she must necessarily die, from her illness—I should say that was about 10 o'clock in the morning—I told Mrs. Allen on the Thursday that she must die—in my judgment, independent of the communication I made to her,
she was in such a condition that she must have been conscious of her approaching end.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You think she was under the impression that recovery was entirely out of the question? A. I think so.
COURT Q. You think she was in that state, that she must have been aware that she would die? A. I am sure of that, independent of my communication to her.
MARGARET ALLEN (continued). On the Friday morning, about 11 o'clock, I said to her, "Are you aware, that you will not get better?" she said, "Oh, yes, I am quite aware; my mother has told me so"—I said, "Have you taken anything to injure yourself?" she said, "No, not anything "—I said, "Be particular, for the innocent might be blamed"—I then said, "What did you have, when you were out, that Monday afternoon? "she said, "Only one glass of beer, and George drank the remainder"—I said, "Well, did you have anything after you came home at night?" she said, "Yes; I had a little coffee, and it was very bitter"—I said, "What did you drink it for, then?" she said, "Because George made me; there was nothing else in the room"—she said nothing more to me on that occasion—further in the day, I asked her if I should go and fetch a minister, and she said, "Oh, yes; do fetch somebody to pray for me"—she did not say anything else when I had that conversation with her, but afterwards she said, "God forgive that wicked man"—she said that a great many times—the child that was born was a fine healthy baby—she suckled it twice only in my presence during her illness—I can't say on what day; it was when she was first taken ill; she was unable afterwards to give it suck; she tried—the child died some weeks after her death—it was very ill from her death—before she went out on the Monday, I saw her with some cotton stockings—she had been drying them in the yard, and was taking them to her own room to put them on—I said, "Don't do that; hang them to the fire first"—she took them away afterwards; they appeared dry to me; I turned them myself.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Why did you caution her about putting on wet stockings, was she careless in her habits? A. Yes; and therefore I was afraid she would put them on wet—I think shortly after one's confinement, putting on wet stockings might have a very serious effect—I saw nothing particular in the terms on which they lived, more than any other working people—they had a few words at times, that was all—I supposed them to be man and wife—as the world goes between man and wife, they lived like other people—I never heard anything to the contrary, but that he was a very sober, well conducted person, with the exception of a few times, he would take a little too much—generally speaking, he was a sober well conducted person—I remember, before her confinement, that she was frequently attacked with spasms, and I got her ginger tea when they occurred, but that was nothing uncommon for a person in her situation—she had been very violently attacked on former occasions with spasms, but not to last any time—I remember my granddaughter getting up one night before she was confined, and making some ginger tea for her, when she was in very great pain from spasms and pain in the stomach—my granddaughter sleeps in the same room as myself—on that occasion, my granddaughter said, "There is something the matter with Mrs. Royal, do you hear her?" I waited for a little time, and then I heard her—I said, "See what is the matter;" and then my granddaughter got up, gave her some hot water, and she made the tea herself—I believe that was it—I have twice made ginger tea for her when she has been attacked with spasms and cramp—I have
only done it twice myself—I can't say whether the prisoner on one of these occasions, when she was seized with pain in the stomach, went out and got some brandy for her—I do not remember—Sunday was a wet day, but not particularly so; it rained several times in the day—the deceased went out on the Sunday evening to go to chapel—it was not very wet, because I was out myself and I did not get wet—it could not have been raining very much, but it had been raining several times during the day—on that night I was at home when the deceased came in from church—I had the baby—I nursed it for her whilst she went—she did not go to church alone—her husband went with her—they went together and they returned together—I do not remember when they returned the prisoner asking her to take off her shoes and stockings, because her feet were wet, and she might get the cramp as she had done before—she had strong leather boots on, and her feet were not wet, because I inquired of her—I said, "Have you wet your feet when you were out?" and she said, "Oh, no; my boots are thick"—I asked her the question, thinking she was a short time out of her confinement, and if she got wet, she might be ill—I did not hear the prisoner say to her, "Don't mind about the thickness of your boots, you take them off, your feet may have got damp"—he may have said so—I don't remember hearing him say so—I cannot go to the extent of saying positively that he did not say so—I can't tell whether they had supper together that night—I never saw them at meals together but twice—I can't tell you what kind of food they usually lived upon—I only saw the mother of the deceased in the house once before she was taken ill—that was on Christmas eve, or Christmas night, I don't know which—from Christmas night till she was taken ill in May the mother had not been there at all, that I had seen—when I had the conversation with her about the coffee and its being bitter, she said, "There was nothing else in the room but the coffee"—she did not say there was no sugar when" she said it was bitter—she did not say, "We had no sugar in the room, and I was so thirsty I was obliged to drink it, for we had nothing else"—she never named thirst at all—I said to her, "Why did not you send in to me for a cup of tea?" she said "Oh, you had got some one with you that evening, and I did not like"—I had some person with me up to half-past 10 that night—my daughter went away at that time—she did not tell me at what time in the evening before the persons went away she had taken the coffee—my friends were with me all the afternoon—it must have been some time after 8 o'clock, I saw her at 8, and she did not ask for anything then—she was unable to give the child suck after the Tuesday—she told me on the Wednesday that she had no milk for it, and was not able to suckle it; but on the Tuesday we attempted to give the baby the breast, and she said she had no milk to give it—I saw the child put to the breast—it appeared to suck but not to get anything—she had a full supply of milk up to the day before she was taken ill—I saw her nursing the child on the Monday morning—I do not know whether she attempted to give it the breast on the Tuesday morning—I did not see her—the prisoner might have gone twice to the doctor's, but not with me—I think he went there with the deceased's mother; I think that was afterwards—the mother came on the Tuesday evening—I fetched her—I could not walk so fast as her, and she was there before me and she was speaking to the prisoner when I came home—I do not know what it was about—it was in their own room—she did not, before me, charge him with poisoning her daughter—I heard from others that it was so—I cannot tell whether it was on that Tuesday evening that the prisoner and the mother went to the doctor's together—on
the Wednesday he said if any one would go with him to the doctor's he would go, and I said I would—he did not say, "I have been once, and I will go again as often as you please, to any doctor you like to take me to"—what he said was, "I should like to go to the doctor's if any one will go with me, and I said, "I will go"—it was not the subject of conversation, in my presence, on the Tuesday evening, that the prisoner had poisoned the woman; it was on the Wednesday morning in the kitchen—there were six persons living in the house at this time besides myself, the prisoner, and the deceased—I had just previously read in the papers of another case in which somebody was said to have been poisoned—the prisoner read it to me on Sunday morning—ho was in the habit of reading the newspaper—he asked me if I had read it, and I said, "No, read it to me"—I was cooking at the time—my mind was not full of that case; I thought nothing more about it.
Q. But when the deceased was suddenly taken ill then it all came back to your mind, I suppose? A. Because I had seen other persons that had been poisoned; thirteen at one time, and they all had the same appearance—sometimes the prisoner would come into the kitchen on the Sunday morning and read the paper to me; but not to all in the house—I think it was the very Sunday morning before this occurred; but I am not positive.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. You said something about seeing other persons poisoned? A. Yes; that bore on my mind, because they were in the same state as the deceased was—it was like what I had seen on them and what I had felt myself when I was ill, for I had taken it at the same time they did—it was that that attracted my attention.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. That, of course, made you particularly nervous and frightened? A. It did—that was Borne years ago—the poison was sugar of lead—we had it in soup—it was put in in mistake for salt—bowel complaint might have been prevalent in the neighbourhood about this time; no one in our house was bad—I cannot tell what was in the neighbourhood—I did not know it then.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. You say you had seen persons suffer before under the effects of poison? A. I had, several times; I did in a case that Dr. Webb attended—it was before the deceased's confinement that I made her the ginger tea when she had the spasms—that is not an unusual symptom with persons in her state—the ginger tea removed the spasms on those occasions—the symptoms that I saw her exhibit after the Tuesday morning were not at all like the spasms that had occurred to her before, or that I had seen occur to any one else before their confinement—the five or six persons living in the house were lodgers in different rooms.
ELEANOR STUBBS . I am a charwoman, living at 19, New-street, Poplar—I lived formerly at 10, Grove-street, Poplar—I went to 44, Gough-street to assist Mrs. Royal at her confinement—I had seen her at Mrs. Allen's several times before her confinement—her health appeared very good for a woman in her situation—she got well over her confinement—I used to see her during the month of May—she went out three of four times after her confinement—on Tuesday morning, 31st May, I heard that she was ill—I went to the house to wash for Mrs. Allen—I did not see Mrs. Royal when I came to the house—I was washing—I saw the prisoner in the course of the morning—I think it was about 1 o'clock, as near as I can say—he came into the washhouse where I was—he said she was very ill; he did not know what to make of her—I don't think I made him any answer at the time—I saw the deceased herself about 5 o'clock in the afternoon—she was then in bed—at that time Mrs. Allen had left the house—she soon afterwards came
back with some medicine—at the time I saw the deceased she complained of a burning sensation in her throat, and great pain in the stomach—a little after 6 o'clock in the evening I went to Mr. Jeffreys for some medicine, and got the order for the surgeon and left it at Mr. Smith's—I afterwards brought some medicine from the surgery, about 8 o'clock in the evening I think—I gave it to the prisoner—I did not see whether he gave it to the deceased, because he told me I could leave the room—the mother and the sister were both there when I came back—when I came back with the medicine the prisoner said to me, "Did the doctor say I had poisoned her," and I said, "He did not"—it was then he told me to leave the room—I went home on that Tuesday night—I called again on Wednesday morning between 10 and 11 o'clock—I should think the deceased was still in bed—she appeared to me to be a little better than she was on the Tuesday—she said she felt a little better—I did not stay long on the Wednesday because her mother was there, and said she would do anything she wanted—I left the mother there—on Thursday morning I came again to the house—I dare say it was between 10 and 11 o'clock, the same as the day before—I went into the room of the deceased—I found the prisoner and her, and he had got the baby in his arms—the deceased complained of being very thirsty, and asked for a drink—at that time there was a cup of milk standing on a chair by her bedside—it was there when I went into the room—the prisoner gave it to her—she drank the milk that was in the cup, and she still said she was thirsty, and she had two cups of water afterwards—the prisoner gave her the water—she drank the water from the same cup that she had the milk in—after he had given her the last cup of water, he went out almost directly, washed himself, and left the house—he washed himself in the washhouse—almost directly after she had taken the milk and the water, she complained of great pain, and Mr. Webb called and ordered turpentine for her stomach—she complained of pain, particularly in the stomach—Dr. Webb had not been sent for; he came himself—it was between 11 and 12 that he called on Thursday morning, and I should think about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes after she had taken the last cup of water—I was directed by Dr. Webb to go to his surgery for some medicine at 1 o'clock—as I went from the house I met the prisoner a few yards from the house; he was coming towards home—I told him I was going to the doctor's for a powder, and he said he would remain there till I came back, meaning at the house—when I came back with the powder, I found him in the house, in the front parlour, sitting with Mrs. Allen; that was her room—he asked to look at the powder—I gave it him, and he opened it and said, "That will do her good, I know"—the powder was then given to her by Mrs. Allen—there was no one with the deceased at that time—I left the house in a very few minutes afterwards, because I had to go out to work—on the Friday morning I came again to the house about 8 o'clock—she was still in bed as before—the prisoner was not there—the mother of the deceased was there—Mrs. Allen was in and out of the room, but not to stay with her—she seemed to be very ill indeed—I never saw anything of the prisoner after the Thursday when I gave him the powder.
Cross-examined. Q. You were in the habit of going there frequently, I think? A. Yes, I was; I knew them both very well by sight, by going to the house—he was always extremely kind and affectionate to this woman as far as I could see—at the time he asked me whether the doctor had said that he had poisoned his wife, I did not know that the mother had charged
him with poisoning her—I had not heard that—I did not hear the mother, soon after I came back, say to the prisoner that she was sorry that she had been so hasty and had charged him with poisoning her daughter, I was not present—I did not know that he went with the deceased's mother to the doctor's—no one else was in the room at the time the deceased took the cup of milk, besides myself and the prisoner—I saw him go to the water-jug and get the water—I can't exactly say how long it was after taking the milk and the water that she complained of feeling worse; a very few minutes—I have said about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes; it was not longer than that—there was no clock in the room, but I had to go down into North-street and get some turpentine, and hot water, and all that, before 12 o'clock—that is a good ten minutes' walk—that does not enable me to say how long it was exactly.
COURT Q. It could not have been less than a quarter of an hour? A. No.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. You are not prepared to say it was not a half an hour before she complained of any pain? A. It was less than half an hour; it was before the doctor came—the complaint she made was pain in the stomach—the doctor came himself; he was not sent for—she did not complain of anything else besides pain in the stomach that I heard of—I left the house before 2—during that time the turpentine was poured on the flannel and put on to her stomach—that gave, her no ease; she still complained of the pain—she drank nothing else while I was there that I saw—she had no motion on the Thursday while I was there; she had on the Tuesday—she was sick as soon as she took the powder—when the flannel and turpentine was put on her stomach it did not make her sick.
JANE WRIGHT . I am the wife of Thomas Wright—he is a preferable labourer at the India Docks—I am the mother of the deceased Zipporah Wright—her age was twenty-one at the time of her death—she had been a perfectly healthy person—I remember being sent for to go to Gough-street on Tuesday—Mrs. Allen sent for me—it was in the dusk of the evening—on arriving at Gough-street, I found my daughter very ill and very pale—she did not complain of anything particular—she was not suffering from sickness at that time—I remained with her on Tuesday night up to 1 o'clock; during that time she did not complain of any pain—I returned home on Wednesday morning—my other daughter was with me—the prisoner offered to accompany us, but I refused—I returned to Gough-street on Wednesday morning between 8 and 9—I saw the prisoner when I went on Tuesday evening—I accused him of poisoning my daughter, by what I had heard from Mrs. Allen—he said he had not—when I was fetched to my daughter's, I ran part of the way, and I was very hot and excited; and when I came into the room, the prisoner took up his coat and walked out, and I instantly walked after him and said, "I want you," and I took him by the collar and brought him back, and accused him then of poisoning my daughter—I don't know, from the time that has passed, whether I can exactly say the words; but it was meaning as much that I thought he had poisoned her—the words I think you must have down in the evidence; but my memory has very much failed me through illness since—the prisoner said he did not, and offered to go to the doctor's—I had heard from Mrs. Allen at that time that Dr. Webb was the doctor attending her—I went with the prisoner to Dr. Webb's, and saw him—the prisoner remained outside while I saw him—when I returned I said to the prisoner, "Perhaps, George, I have been too hasty; do you think she has
taken anything herself?"—he said, "No, I am sure she has not; I used to keep poison in the house to dress, or trim, or polish my boots; but I have not kept anything for a long time"—on the Wednesday, when I returned to Gough-street, there was every hope of recovery; there was no appearance of death—I boiled an egg, and she ate it, and some milk, and I never saw any vomit whatever—I asked her if she thought she should get better, and she said, "Yes, mother."
COURT Q. She was better and felt better? A. Yes; she appeared so; what her first symptoms were I was not there to see.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. You said something about giving her milk. A. On Wednesday morning I went out and bought milk and boiled it, and boiled an egg; I brought bread-and-butter from my own home, and she had a few bites of it, and no sickness followed—finding her going on so well, I left on Wednesday after dinner, and returned home at night about 1 or 2 o'clock—I came again on Wednesday evening and brought my eldest daughter with me; the deceased seemed then fainter and lower, but no vomit or sickness that I saw—on Wednesday evening she asked me whether I would mind stopping all night; and I did not leave the house at all—I left on Thursday morning at about 5 or half-past; the prisoner was then in the room, lying by the side of the deceased, outside the quilt, with his trousers on, or rather with two pairs on—my daughter had, during the night, been very hot, very restless, very burning and feverish—there was no appearance of sickness during the night—she did not complain of any violent pain during the night—when I went away I left the prisoner in the room—I gave her her medicine through the night, and she appeared much better; between 4 and half-past 4 in the morning, she broke out into a perspiration, which I was glad to see—the appearances through the night were such, that I told her she would get better; she said, "I feel better, mother dear"—I said to the prisoner, "George, I think she will be better, she will sleep"—she had some wine and a biscuit—I said, "How do you feel after that? Did it hurt you?" she said, "Not at all"—I then said I would go home, and left my boy to see how she was going on; and he came running to me, and saying, "Make haste, mother, sister is dying"—that was about dinner-time, it might be about 12, or it might be 1 or later—I was very much excited at hearing it, and hastened back to Gough-street—I found my daughter in a dying state, not as she was when I left her—she complained of burning in the throat, and continual thirst, and pain in the bowels; I had not been there very long before she was sick, and I held the basin for the vomit; and directly she had vomited I poured it into a large jar, and left her in charge of Mrs. Allen—and then I took it to Dr. Webb, warm—she after that, gradually got worse—when Dr. Webb came, I followed him into the passage—that was on Friday afternoon—and I asked him what he thought, and he said, "Thirty hours will decide it"—the prisoner was out on the Thursday afternoon, and returned in the evening; he came down on Friday morning soon after 5 o'clock—on Thursday evening, when he returned, he was in Mrs. Allen's parlour, and I went in and held him by the throat or collar, or something, and told him he had murdered my daughter, and he turned deadly pale, and said he had not; and I told him his death-bed would be bell, which it will—on Friday morning when he came down, he came into the room and asked my daughter how she was; and I said, "She is asleep"—he said, "She is not, for I have heard her talking"—he asked her how she was; she said, "Very bad"—she asked him if he was going out to his sister's to work, as she could not bear the noise of his knocking in the
room; he said, "Yes, as soon as she is up"—he then went out and washed himself; he tied up his tools in a cloth—while he was washing himself, I took the key out of the door, and put it in my pocket, thinking that he would lock me out—I went into Mrs. Allen's room where she was sleeping, and asked her to get up—after the prisoner had washed himself, he came into the room again; he kissed my daughter, bade her good-bye, and said he should see her again, and went out—she said, "This will be the last kiss, George;" the Judas' kiss—my daughter did not say that—what she said was, "This will be the last kiss, George"—he went out, and I never saw him again until he was in custody—my daughter first knew that she was dying, on the Friday afternoon; I told her so—I told her that the medical gentlemen had done all they could for her; not to be deceived, nothing could save her life in this world, and I hoped she would think of the future—she said, "I will"—I said, "Do you bear any ill-feeling to any one on earth"—she said, "No, mother; I hope God will forgive that wicked man"—when the prisoner left on the Friday morning, all that I observed with him was his tools—I remained with my daughter until her death, which took place on the Saturday morning.
Cross-examined. Q. On the evening when you charged the prisoner with poisoning your daughter, did he immediately tell you that she had put on damp stockings, and he was afraid she had caught cold by it? A. He told me that, returning from Dr. Webb's.
SARAH ANN EAGLE . I am the wife of James Eagle, a master mariner, and am sister to the prisoner—at the time in question, he was working as a shoemaker with me; he had been working as a shoemaker for about three years—he has also been in other occupations; sometimes he has been at work at carpentering, sometimes at cab-driving—he has lived with a chemist, a Mr. Wildbore, at Notting-hill; he lived with him twice as a groom; I should think he was with him near about two years, but I should not like to be positive as to the time—he might have been about sixteen or seventeen when he first went to live with him, but I can't say; he must have been somewhere about seventeen or eighteen when he left—he was only away one week between the two occasions—he has also lived with another chemist, a Mr. Johns, of High-street, Kensington—I should think he was between nine and ten years of age when he went to him—he was only a sort of errand-boy—he was with him about six or nine months, as near as I can remember—I think he is now in his thirty-third year—I have known him ever since he was a child—I am two years and a half older than he is—he is married.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you present at any marriage? A. No; I was not.
MR. WELSBY. Q. Has he lived with any person as his wife besides the person who is now dead? A. Not that I am aware of; I have no knowledge of anything of the sort—I only know from him that he was married to one person—my mother went and saw him married—I have heard him talk about his wife; I have heard him speak of her within this last twelvemonth—there are two children; there were four—the deceased, Zipporah Wright, was my servant—she was with me from 1st May till the following 10th November last year—she left me in consequence of my giving her notice.
ELIZABETH FYFE . I am the wife of William Fyfe—my husband had been lodging at Mrs. Allen's, first in Crisp-street, and afterwards in Gough-street in April and May last—on Tuesday, 31st May, I went to see my husband at Mrs. Allen's—it might have been between 12 and 1 in the middle of the day; the prisoner was there at the time I went there—the prisoner came into the kitchen while I was there, and he said, "I must make her some
gruel"—he went to the fire-place to do something, but what he did I did not see—I did not see whether he took anything from the kitchen into the other room—when I went into the room, in the course of the afternoon, she was sick; some fluid was coming from her mouth of a darkish character, and she wiped it either with the sheet or her bed-gown, I do not know which—I afterwards gave her some tea; she kept that on her stomach—the prisoner came into the room while I was there that evening—I said to him, "Your wife is very ill, and I am very sorry for it, for the second relapse in general is worse than the first"—he replied, it was a d—d bad job that it did not happen at the time—I held the baby to her on the Tuesday evening, and the prisoner assisted me to lay it across her chest for her to suckle; she was not able to nurse it; she told me in the afternoon that she had no milk to give it—when I took her in the tea, she said she was very thirsty, and her throat burned, and her stomach burned, and she was in such pain.
GEORGE CARTER . I live at 4, Silver-street, Notting-hill—I have seen the prisoner before—I know that he is a married man—I was not present at any marriage—I have heard from him that he was married—he married my wife's daughter—they lived together as man and wife—they have had four children; two are living now.
ROBERT WEBB (re-examined). I am a Fellow of the College of Surgeons, and medical officer of the western district of the Poplar Union—in consequence of an order from the relieving officer of the union, I went to the lodging of the deceased, Zipporah Wright, on Tuesday evening, 31st May—Mr. Smith, my then partner, went with me; he had seen her previously—I think it was about 11 o'clock, or between 11 and 12 when I saw her—I found her in bed—she had a very anxious countenance, expressive of great pain; there was a damp perspiration over her face and limbs, and a very frequent and small pulse, and upon pressing on the stomach, there was evidence of considerable pain and tenderness elicited—she stated that she had a good deal of pain in her stomach; that that commenced the night before, some hour or two, or soon after the taking of some coffee; that the pain bad increased up to 2 o'clock, when vomiting came on, which was soon followed by purging; which purging and vomiting had continued for several hours—she did not complain of burning sensation of the throat at that time—I learnt from Mr. Smith what he had prescribed for her; it was opium with some calomel—I directed that that should be continued; that some rice milk should be given her to drink, and warm fomentations to be continued to her abdomen—I thought at that time it possibly might be a severe attack of diarrhoea or English cholera, which was at that time prevalent—I did not see her again until the Thursday—on the Wednesday I inquired of my partner, Mr. Smith, how she was, and was told by him that she was much better—on the Thursday, I found all the symptoms aggravated, the anxiety was very much increased; she was very much more prostrated; the damp perspiration over her face and hands was increased, and the tenderness was very much increased—she then complained of burning in the throat, and of intense thirst—on the Wednesday, the prisoner came to me with Mrs. Allen—I had not seen him before, that I recollect—he stated that he wished to speak to me privately—I took him into an adjoining room—he there said that his wife had been suffering some two years from venereal disease—I told him that would not account for her present symptoms, they were either the result of cold or of some irritant; he then stated that she had gone out on Monday, and had put on some damp stockings—on the Thursday, Mrs. Wright, the deceased's mother, brought me some
vomit—I placed it in a private cupboard, and locked it up, putting the key, in my pocket—on the Thursday, she was in a hopeless condition—I did not see the prisoner on the Thursday that I recollect—I told her friends what her condition was on the Thursday, and I told her herself on the Friday morning; she was conscious of her condition—I asked her why she took the coffee—she said, "He gave it me, and it was very bitter"—she had told me herself, on my first visit, that she had taken some coffee—she died early on the Saturday morning—with Mr. Smith's assistance, I made a poet mortem, examination of her body, in that same room on the Monday following—I made some memoranda of that examination on that same day—I have not, got them here; they are at home; they are very rough notes; merely some headings for the information of the coroner; I do not require them; they would not at all assist me on the present occasion—I found a quantity of dark brown matter escaping from the mouth and nostrils,—the abdomen was, very much distended—on opening the abdomen we found the stomach contained some four or five ounces of dark brown matter, which I set aside in a bottle for subsequent examination; and on looking at the coats of the stomach, we found a portion of the mucous membrane here and there abraded; there was a general redness or inflammation of the mucous membrane of the stomach, and also of the small intestines—the mucous membrane appeared to be blistered, or there were small vesicles present on the transverse folds—a portion of the small intestines at one spot, two or three feet from the stomach, was more inflamed than the other—all the other organs of the, body, the heart, lungs, and liver, appeared to be healthy—we examined particularly the generative parts, and they were healthy; we could not detect any trace of venereal disease.
COURT Q. If it had existed for some time, but had wholly ceased, would it leave any marks behind? A. Syphilis would, but gonorrhcea would not necessarily do so.
MR. WELSBY. Q. What portions of the body did you put apart for further examination? A. The stomach and the inflamed portion of the small intestines; I think one kidney, and a portion of the liver and lung-the stomach and intestines, to the best of my recollection, were placed in, one vessel, and the portion of the lungs, liver, and kidney, were placed in another vessel—I tied the vessels down, and then sealed the string—I took them to my own house and looked them up, in the same cupboard with the vomited matter—I afterwards delivered them all to Dr. Letheby, I think on the Wednesday-morning—they were then in the same condition as they were when I put them by—the peritoneum appeared to be slightly inflamed, as if the inflammation of the mucous membrane and the muscular coat of the intestines had extended to the peritoneum, but the inflammation was not so intense as to cause death—some fortnight afterwards, the body was exhumed—I then took out a portion of the liver, and the whole of the body remaining intestines, and took them to Dr. Letheby—I was present when Dr. Letheby made an analysis of those portions of the body first sent to him—he obtained from the vomited matter, from the contents of the stomach, as well as from the stomach and intestines, an acrid matter, small in quantity, but very pungent, very acrid indeed—I tasted it.
COURT Q. You say he obtained it, how did he get it? A. By analysis; he dissolved out the acrid matter by means of ether, and evaporated the, ether, leaving this extract as the result.
MR. WELSBY. Q. In your judgment, from what you observed during life and after death, what was the proximate cause of death? A. Some
irritant poison, producing inflammation of the lining membrane of the bowels, and of the muscular coat of the bowels.
Q. Upon what do you form your judgment that the inflammation was produced by some irritant? A. First, you have the description of the patient herself; her statement with respect to the coffee in the one instance, and the milk in the other, soon followed by pain, vomiting, purging, and the usual characteristics of inflammation; the post mortem appearances; the result of the analysis, and the effects of the extract which Dr. Letheby obtained, produced on Dr. Letheby's own lip, which I witnessed, and on my own tongue—on Dr. Letheby's lip in a few minutes some vesicles or small blisters made their appearance, intense inflammation spreading round within a quarter of an hour, which blisters remained for two days, I think; and upon my tongue it produced a very stinging pungent sensation, causing considerable pain for a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before I could get rid of it—I believe shoemakers occasionally use oxalic acid in their trade for the whitening of boot tops—the appearances in this case were not at all consistent with the administration of oxalic acid; the death was much more rapid, and that is easily re-obtained by analysis—I am not able to pronounce with certainty what the irritant was that was extracted by the analysis.
COURT Q. Can you say among what class of substances it would probably be found? A. I believe it is either an animal or a vegetable irritant; it possibly may be cantharides; I cannot say for certainty that it is—it may be croton oil; it is as much like croton oil as cantharides; or it may be a combination of that with other vegetable irritants—there is no one vegetable or animal irritant that I know of that would bear out all the symptoms.
Cross-examined. Q. At the time you were called in, there had been severe diarrhoea prevalent in the neighbourhood, had there not? A. There had been diarrhoea prevalent—the account which the deceased gave of her symptoms led me at first to believe it might possibly be something of that kind—I felt her abdomen; there was not a general tenderness of the abdomen; there was a tenderness of the stomach, but only elicited upon firm, deep pressure, showing that it was in the lining membrane of the stomach—pain or pressure is an indication of the presence of inflammation—there is a difference in the character of the pain in inflammation of the mucous and serous membranes—when I first saw the deceased she complained of a pain over the pit of the stomach—Mr. Smith had given her calomel and opium; calomel alone would act as a purgative, with opium it would not; the opium controls its purgative effects; whether it would do so entirely, would depend upon the dose of calomel given—I believe the dose Mr. Smith gave was something like three grains of calomel, with two grains of opium, which would not purge—I believe before I went he also sent some chalk mixture—I approved of the treatment he had pursued—up to that time he had communicated to me upon the case.
Q. And up to the time when you first saw her, and examined her, you still believed that she was labouring under something in the form of severe English cholera? A. Not quite so; I believed that it might possibly be so—I also believed that all the symptoms might be produced by some irritant administered in the coffee, as stated by the patient—the symptoms were not consistent with peritoneal inflammation; there would be a difference in the character of the pulse; the pulse of peritoneal inflammation is essentially hard and wiry; and there is a difference in the character of the pain; the pain of pe✗onitis is a short lancet-like pain, exceedingly tender upon
pressure so that the patient can hardly bear the pressure of the bed-clothes; in this case it required firm deep pressure to elicit the pain—there was no peritoneal inflammation present at that time; that was on Tuesday-night—on the post mortem examination the peritoneum presented evidence of inflammation, as if it was an extension of the inflammation of the muscular coat of the stomach and bowels; it was only to a slight degree; not sufficient to kill—it was generally over the intestines.
Q. Were not the symptoms which were developed by the deceased perfectly consistent with enteritis? A. Yes; up to a certain extent they might be consistent with enteritis, because the effect of an irritant is to produce enteritis—that which is known as gastro-enteritis is a complication of it—as far as the symptoms themselves went, they were substantially the same as in gastro-enteritis—gastro-enteritis might be produced by natural causes, or from an irritant—I have conducted many post mortem examinations—I have never seen a death from gastroenteritis from natural causes; such cases are very rare indeed—I do not know that "The Principles and Practice of Medicine" by Dr. Rogers and Professor Lee is a work of authority; I saw the book some ten or fifteen years ago, but I do not know it as a work of authority in the profession; I dare say it is, I don't know it as such—I believe they are Dr. Elliotson's lectures edited by those gentlemen.
Q. Does this coincide with your opinion, in reference to gastritis: "Although it is very possible that death may ensue from things taken into the stomach, we are never justified in saying, from inflammation of that organ, that the various morbid appearances which we see there, have been owing to poison, unless we prove its presence; if it were not for an accurate knowledge of those circumstances we might suspect that poison has been taken without there being any justifiable reason whatever for the opinion, for the appearances within the stomach may be precisely the same as those induced by taking poison or some other injurious matter, when it is simply common inflammation, and the effects of it"? A. Yes; common inflammation, certainly, but the post mortem appearances, as described by me, are not common—to a certain extent what you have read does meet with my sanction; but common inflammation, however produced, will produce the same appearances—I happen to have attended those very lectures of Dr. Elliotson's, but as far as the work itself is concerned, I have not read it, nor do I know that it is at the present day recognised as a work of authority by the profession; I had thought that the work was obsolete—I know Dr. Christison's work on poisons; I recognise that as a work of authority—I agree with the following passage: "It is necessary here to give a detailed account of the symptoms of simple cholera; there is the same burning in the stomach and bowels as in irritant poison, the same incessant vomiting and frequent purging, the same tension and tenderness of the belly, the same sense of acidity in the throat, and irritation in the anus, the same depression and anxiety, the same state of the pulse."
Q. From your knowledge and reading in respect of death from poison and from natural causes, do you think that there may arise cases in which death from irritant poison may not be distinguishable from death by natural causes? A. From the symptoms during life alone, I think it possible—without a post mortem examination I would not venture to say that the person did not die a natural death, with this reservation, that here all the pain and all the symptoms appeared to have arisen, in the first instance, from the taking of the coffee, and in the second instance from the taking of the milk; the woman stated that she was perfectly well up to the taking of the
coffee; that the coffee was very bitter, and that soon after the taking of the coffee she felt pain and inconvenience of the stomach; that the pain increased for two or three hours, until vomiting was produced, and purging, and that pain continued for perhaps twenty-four hours—she told me that she had vomited two or three hours after taking the coffee—vomiting does not usually take place in much less than two or three hours after the introduction of a violent irritant poison into the stomach; ordinarily speaking, it takes place very soon after the introduction, sometimes in a quarter of an hour, sometimes an hour, but it may extend: take arsenic as an example; arsenic may produce vomiting within a quarter of an hour, or not for six or eight hours—I do not suggest arsenic in this case—I do not suggest any mineral; I believe it to be a vegetable, an acrid oil of a vegetable nature—the period at which vomiting would take place, would depend upon the dose, the quantity of food in the stomach, and a variety of things; it is very uncertain in the action—as a rule I should expect that a large dose of an irritant would produce vomiting in a quarter of an hour—irritant poisons, as a class, are very uncertain in their action, as regards the time of the production of the symptoms—if the extract which is said to have killed animals was introduced in that form into the stomach, it might produce vomiting immediately, but it does not follow that it was given in that form; it might have been given in a dose larger in quantity, but less active in its principle—I have no very great experience of the action of vegetable irritants as a poison—I have attended several persons who have died from poisoning; those were from mineral poisons, principally oxalic acid—an acrid oil would, I think, be insoluble in water or coffee; if put in either it would float, being specifically lighter; but it might have been well mixed with the coffee, and so diluted—what I mean is that it would divide the globules or drops; I don't say that it would be dissolved—I knew that the deceased had been confined about a month previously—supposing she had caught cold by exposure to wet, the proximate effect of that would probably be peritoneal inflammation, but very different in its character to the condition of this patient—the probable result of that inflammation being set up, would be a suppression of the lacteal secretion—I have heard that the deceased was not able to give the milk to the child on the Tuesday evening—in puerperal fever the milk is absorbed into the tissues as a result of the inflammation—if the deceased had caught cold on the Sunday previous, suppression of the milk might follow from that cold, two days afterwards, but the other symptoms would be very different—the absorption of bile into the system sometimes causes a pernicious effect upon the blood—I do not know that the absorption of the milk into the system causes a vitiating or poisoning of the blood—I have dissected puerperal patients—the slightest puncture in dissecting a puerperal patient will sometimes cause the death of the operator—the condition of the system when suffering from puerperal fever will produce poisonous effects upon any one dissecting a dead person—the system of a patient suffering from the absorption of the secretions is poisoned undoubtedly.
Q. Supposing the secretion of milk to be suppressed on the Tuesday evening, and the milk as a natural consequence to be absorbed into the system, would not that which remained secreted, be by some process, the operation of which is not yet known, converted into a poison? A. I do not agree to that point; I am not satisfied that it is so—it may be that animal fluids secreted during disease are believed occasionally to act as poisons—I know "Beck's Medical Jurisprudence"—I am not acquainted with Morganie, the French toxicologist—I have read Beck—I can conceive that a large
quantity of the fluid secretions of the human body may acquire from disease such an acrimony as to be fatal to animals, without the introduction of any irritant poison—I do not know it to be a fact that the fluid found in the stomach of a diseased person dying from natural causes has been administered to animals and caused their death; I never knew an instance of that sort—I have never beard of a poison called the necroscopic poison—I am acquainted with Dr. Copland's "Dictionary of Medical Science"—I do not happen to have read in that book of a poison of that description generated in, the system, and not referable to any poison whatever—I have not heard or read of animals being killed by the introduction of a fluid found in the stomach of a person dying of natural disease—it may be seventeen, eighteen, or twenty years since I read Beck, I have not looked into him at all before coming here (Upon MR. SLEIGH proceeding to refer to a case cited in some work, and asking the witness whether he had heard of such a case, the LORD CHIEF BARON interposed, and stated that it was not competent for counsel to put particular cases from books, and so indirectly to put evidence before the Jury which could only properly be done by the examination of witnesses)—I believe it possible that the secretion of the stomach of a diseased person might produce death if administered to an animal—the bile sometimes undergoes the most extraordinary change in the system from disease, and so do all the other secretions—I know Bichaut as a pathologist and comparative anatomist; he is a person of great authority—it is the case, as he states, that changes take place in the sensibility of the glands, which become connected with fluids heterogeneous to them in their natural state; hence the varieties are innumerable which are observed in secreted fluids, particularly in disease"—in disease I should expect the evacuations to present every multiplicity of modification of which they are susceptible—upon the dissection of diseased subjects, we sometimes find that nothing has less resemblance to urine and bile than the fluids which are expelled from the bladder and liver; there are great changes—it is the case that the very same gland, without undergoing the slightest change, and by a mere modification of its vital power, may then become the source of a multiplicity of different fluids—changes of the secretions of the most extraordinary kind continually present themselves—the vital functions frequently exceed their natural degree, baffle all calculation, and would require as many formula as the cases that occur in their phenomena; nothing can be foreseen, foretold, or calculated; we judge of them by their analogies, and these are, in the vast proportion of instances, extremely uncertain—gastro enteritis is a very rare disease—I have had a case under my own observation in London, in the very same district in which I am now living—the deceased complained of very great pain of the stomach, and the attack, according to her account, was rather a sudden one—in gastro enteritis the attack sometimes makes its appearance suddenly, without any precursory symptoms—vomiting and purging are some of the symptoms—it is a disease produced by cold; it is a disease produced either by natural or foreign causes—the symptoms of gastro enteritis are the same, whether arising from natural cause, as cold, or from the introduction of a foreign body—a mal-assimilation of the contents of the stomach, results in the derangement of the whole system, and the fluids of the body become deteriorated thereby—I am familiar with the fact that sausages, from a peculiar kind of fermentation which takes place, have been known to produce deleterious and fatal effects; the same results would be produced if fermentation were to occur in the food of a stomach, and there were thereby to be a mal-assimilation—the
symptoms of the deceased, when I saw and examined her, were consistent with an attack of gastro enteritis—in a complication of diseases of the abdominal viscera, you may sometimes find inflammation both of the peritoneum and of the mucous membrane—I cannot say that in any post mortem I have met with the mucous membrane in a softened condition where death has arisen from natural disease—the gastric juices on the mucous membrane, if there are no contents in the stomach upon which to act, will act upon the stomach itself; and after death still more violently and powerfully than during life, and to that extent as to cause a considerable softening of the mucous membrane, and also an abrasion—it will cause inflammatory appearance and occasional patches of abrasion in the duodenum and the ilium—I was present when the analysis was made by Dr. Letheby—the contents were sent to him on the 8th—he set about the analysis immediately, the same morning—he did not carry out the whole of the analysis—he commenced first to test for mineral poisons—I think he did that on the Wednesday—he placed some of the organs that I took, in a bottle, and poured some ether upon them—the viscera that were placed in bottles were not put into any fluid, simply the viscera as taken from the stomach were placed in a bottle without any preservative; without alcohol—the post mortem was on the Monday—I put the viscera into a bottle and corked it up, and sealed the cork, without any alcohol or any preparation to preserve it—I left it from Monday till Wednesday to be the subject of decomposition and putrefaction, without anything in the shape of an antiseptic—the analysis was not proceeded with on the Thursday; it was arranged that it should stand over for four or five days—I did not replace the viscera in the same bottles—I saw them placed in another bottle—the bottle in which I had placed them was left in charge of Dr. Letheby—I left the viscera in charge of Dr. Letheby on the Wednesday, and arranged to come four or five days subsequently, I forget the exact day, and see the result of the analysis—after the Wednesday I had nothing to do with the mode in which the viscera were preserved—the matter which was vomited on the previous Wednesday, I sent to Dr. Letheby the week after I had it, together with the viscera, in separate bottles—to the best of my recollection the portions of the intestines with the stomach were placed in one bottle, and a portion of the liver, lungs, and kidneys, in another bottle—I did nothing with the vomited matter between the Thursday when it was sent to me, and the succeeding Wednesday—I did not subject it to any analysis—I put it in a bottle and sealed it up—it appeared to me more of a yellowish colour than green—I did not observe any difference in the vomited matter between the time I received it on the Thursday and the Wednesday—the colouring matter was bile—the bile naturally flows from the liver through the proper vessel into the duodenum, not into the stomach; it is out of place in the stomach; that is caused by a reversion of the action—some-times it is ejected from the mouth in vomiting—the natural colour of bile is a yellowish brown—when it obtains anything of a greenish colour, that I believe is the result generally of the action of the gastric juices upon it—I have tasted bile that has been taken from the stomach of a diseased person—I cannot say that I am familiar with the taste of bile in its natural condition—it is very nauseous—if thrown out through the oesophagus in the shape of a vomit, it would produce a very nasty sensation in the throat, together with the muscular action of vomiting; that gives rise to that which patients frequently complain of, a nasty rasping sensation in the throat—I assisted in the second post mortem when the body was exhumed,
about a fortnight afterwards; it was not then that I applied the vomited matter to my lip; that was within ten days of the death; within ten days of the first post mortem—the death took place on the 4th or 5th, and the post mortem on the Monday—on the 8th I had the conference with Dr. Letheby, when I made the first examination—on that occasion I did not put any of the vomited matter or any other matter to my lip—I think it was on the following Monday, but I am not quite sure as to the exact day—that was nine or ten days after the death—no solution of alcohol or anything was put into the bottle with: the vomit—it had twelve or thirteen days for whatever chemical process might be going on, to affect it, before I made any test of it—it was before the exhumation that Dr. Letheby mode the alcoholic solution of the stomach and intestines which resulted in the four drops—the results of the different processes were placed side by side and found to be all alike—after the exhumation, I had a portion of the viscera which I took to Dr. Letheby and have seen nothing of it since—I was present when he made an alcoholic solution of the stomach and portion of the intestines which I first took him—at that time he made an analysis of the vomited matter and also of the contents of the stomach—when the body was exhumed, decomposition had set in—I placed the portion of the viscera which I then took, into a stoppered bottle and sealed it up.
COURT Q. Have you been accustomed to examine bodies and to preserve parts of them for subsequent examination? A. Yes; I do not know of alcohol being used to preserve them.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. But do you consider it is a fair test when you allow the matter to putrify and decompose for many days? A. This was only postponed for twenty-four hours—she died on the Saturday, the examination was made on the Monday, and early on Wednesday morning, as soon as possible after the first meeting of the coroner, this was taken to Dr. Letheby for analysis, and he immediately set to work—I do not deny that in four days the structure of the stomach may sometimes be so operated upon by the gases in it as to be softened and abraded, without any poison at all.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. Would it at all follow from this poison being discovered in the shape of oil that it was therefore administered in that shape? A. Not at all—I have stated that gastro enteritis is very rare—its existence has even been doubted in the medical world as arising from natural causes—cold will produce it—I have met with a case in which a strong, healthy man drank a quart of cold water, and he was soon after seized with pain and all the symptoms of gastro enteritis—that was not a fatal case—assuming the present to have been a case of gastro enteritis, I do not think it would be consistent with that theory, that she should have had all these aggravated symptoms, then an interval of ease, and then a return of the violent symptoms—the similarity of symptoms to which I have alluded, would be in a case of continuous disease—there was no puerperal fever in this case, nor anything like it—the symptoms of gastro enteritis were produced before the milk ceased to be secreted—it has not been my practice to use alcohol to preserve the parts of a body; if that was done it would be necessary to test the alcohol—the actual analysis was managed by Dr. Letheby, I was simply a witness—I think the tests were first applied for mineral poison.
Q. Having had the opportunity of observing the symptoms of this unhappy woman during her lifetime, having examined her body after her death, and also having been present at this analysis and its results, in your
opinion did she die from natural causes, or the introduction of a foreign irritant poison? A. My belief is that she died from the introduction of some irritant poison—that is the result of my observations, taking the whole of the circumstances into consideration.
COURT Q. Do you take into consideration any other circumstances except the medical ones? A. No; by "all the circumstances," I mean the history of the case given by the patient herself, the symptoms, and the medical facts.
ROLAND SMITH . In May last I was in partnership with Mr. Webb—on Tuesday, 31st May, I was sent for to see the deceased, Zipporah Wright, about 5 o'clock in the evening—she was suffering from great pain in the region of the stomach—she complained of a dryness in the throat and great thirst—the first thing I administered was a powder containing three grains of calomel and two grains of powdered opium, and I afterwards gave a chalk mixture—I sent that, I think, two hours afterwards; I mean two hours after the calomel was given—the chalk mixture consisted of chalk, sugar, and powdered gum arabic and water—that was before Mr. Webb had seen the woman—I afterwards attended her for several days with Mr. Webb—I saw her on the Wednesday—I found her symptoms better; there was still a redness in the mouth and tongue, but it was not so dry as on the Tuesday evening—the vomiting had ceased when I saw her on the Wednesday; I did not see her on the Thursday—on the Friday I saw her with Mr. Webb—at that time she was sinking rapidly—it did not appear to me that there was any inflammation of the peritoneum; if so, very slight—I did not see it—I was present when Dr. Webb made the post mortem examination—I have heard what he has stated with regard to the appearances that the body then presented.
Q. In your opinion, as a medical man, looking at the symptoms and the post mortem appearances, to what do you attribute the death? A. Not to natural causes, but to some irritant—I concur with Dr. Webb in his description of the post mortem appearances—I looked to see if there was any appearance of venereal disease upon the person of the deceased—I could not discover any.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean that you did not discover anything in the shape of ulceration in the vagina? A. No; there was no appearance of gonorrhoea or pueralbis—they would not produce any structural disorganization of the tissue, and I did not discover any—pueralbis might have existed without any appearance of it being indicated on the post mortem—by ignorant people that discharge might be mistaken for something else—it is a discharge which might be the result of natural causes, and not of any infection—when I first saw her I heard that she had been confined a month before, and had been about for about a fortnight—I did not direct any inquiries on the Tuesday evening to the state of the lacteal system—I first heard of the suppression of the lacteal secretion the next morning, Wednesday—that sometimes causes great mischief to the patient—I have never heard of its causing death by absorption—it is one of the exciting causes of puerperal or obstetric fever—I did not at first form an opinion that it was obstetric or puerperal fever—I don't think Dr. Webb did.
MR. SLEIGH to DR. WEBB. Q. Did not you form an opinion in the earlier part of this matter that it was obstetric fever? A. Not at all.
ROLAND SMITH (continued). I thought it was a very severe attack of diarrhoea on my first visit—I had had several cases in the neighbourhood; some of them assuming an acute form, requiring care and attention—the treatment I prescribed was for that form of disease—Friday was the last
time I saw her—at that time she was in a state of exhaustion; sinking—it was a very rapid pulse; more than 120 or 130 in a minute—it was at 5 o'clock on Tuesday afternoon that I first saw her—I saw her again that evening—at that time the pulse was hard and wiry; indicative of the presence of inflammatory action—there was nothing then in regard to the pulse, or the symptoms apparent on pressure on the stomach, to lead me to any other conclusion than that she was suffering from mucous inflammation—it was not a general pain and tenseness of the abdomen, only in the epigastrium—I should expect to find it there, if there was inflammation of the mucous membrane; but not of the serous—if there was peritoneal inflammation, pain would be manifested on pressure; I thought you were speaking of the abdomen altogether, not of the stomach alone—I should expect to find pain increased on pressure in inflammation either of the mucous or serous membrane—I have never made a post mortem examination of a person who has died of poison.
MR. SLEIGH to DR. WEBB. Q. At what time did you see the deceased on the Thursday? A. I think about 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I saw her again at night, but the earliest time was about 3 or 4 o'clock, to the best of my belief.
DR. HENRY LETHEBY . I am professor of chemistry at the London Hospital, and medical officer of health to the City of London—some portions of a human body were brought to me by Dr. Webb for the purpose of chemical analysis—the first portions were brought to me on Wednesday morning, 8th June—4 bottles were brought to me; the first bottle contained a stomach and two pieces of small intestines; the second bottle contained a piece of liver, a piece of kidney, and a piece of lung; a third bottle contained 4 ounces of matter vomited by the deceased; and the fourth bottle contained the contents of the stomach—each bottle was carefully secured with the seals, which I produce unbroken; I proceeded to the chemical analysis of the contents of these various bottles—I first took the stomach from the bottle and found it to be inflamed on the mucous coat—the mucous coat was everywhere softened, and in one place dissolved off; it was covered with a dark-brown mucus, which I found, upon examination microscopically, to be altered blood—the walls of the stomach were very slightly acid to litmus paper—there was no odour whatever of any volatile poison—the stomach was immediately treated with alcohol, and I searched in the alcoholic solution for mineral poisons but did not find any—I then continued the search for organic poisons, and obtained from the alcoholic solution a small quantity of a treacle-like liquor, which, upon digestion with ether, furnished, as nearly as possible, one drop of an oily-liquor, which I tasted and found to be very acrid—I then rubbed a small quantity of it on the corner of my lip; it produced severe burning pain in the course of 5 minutes, and at the end of a quarter of-an-hour my lip was considerably swollen, and was covered with little watery vesicles, pimples; the next day a scab formed there, and the effects lasted for 3 or 4 days—that was the result of the examination of the stomach only—the stomach was then treated by Reinsch's tests for mineral poisons, and it furnished a trace of mercury, but nothing else—the lungs were also there, and they were treated in a similar way, but I found nothing in the lungs; in fact, the stomach and the lungs, with all of that bottle, was at once treated with alcohol—the first bottle contained the stomach and some portion of the small intestines, they
were treated together, with alcohol—I have given the result of the first bottle—the second contained a piece of the liver and kidney, and a piece of lung; they were all treated for mineral poisons by Reinsch's test, and I sought for mercury, for arsenic, and for antimony, but I did not find anything—I then examined the vomited matter—I found, as it stood in the bottle, that it had separated into two portions, an upper layer of curd and a lower layer of whey; that was in bottle No. 3—the second bottle was not tested for organic poison, only for mineral; in the tissues themselves you would not find anything but a mineral poison; it would have been waste of labour—a few organic poisons get into the tissues, but not generally so; here it would have been quite a waste of labour—the vomited matter in the third bottle was of a greenish-yellow colour; I ascertained by proper tests that the colour was due to bile—I examined the curd under the microscope and found that it consisted of the curd of milk, together with a small quantity of starch, like arrow-root; it was treated with alcohol together with the clear liquor, and I found in it precisely the same kind of acrid matter that I had obtained from the stomach; I also obtained from it a mere trace of mercury, but nothing else—I then took the contents of the fourth bottle, it was labelled, "The contents of the stomach;" it contained 2 ounces of a dark brownish-red fluid which was very alkaline in its aspect, and which I found, by examination under the microscope, consisted entirely of altered blood; a little of it was filtered away, and I sought in the filtered liquor for oxalic acid, but I did not find any—I then treated it with alcohol, in the same way as I had treated the former portions, and I obtained a resinous looking matter, which gave to ether the same kind of acrid substance, which blistered the other corner of my mouth—I searched in the residue for mineral poisons and I found only this small quantity of mercury (producing it), nothing else.
COURT Q. That, I suppose, might well be accounted for by the calomel? A. Just so; but I did not know at that time anything about calomel having been administered.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. What was the result of your examination? A. That there was present in the stomach, mercury, which had been administered, and an acrid matter, the nature of which I could not determine—I then requested that the body should be exhumed, in order that I might have further matter for investigation—that was done on 21st June, and I received a large wide-mouthed bottle and a glass jar, both secured and sealed; the bottle contained a spleen, bladder, uterus, kidney, and 6 pieces of intestines; the intestines were cut open from end to end, and there was nothing except altered blood lining the interior part of them; the mucous coat throughout, near to the large intestines, was very much inflamed and softened; at least it was red and softened—at that distance of time I could hardly tell whether the redness was due to inflammation, or to post mortem appearance—I searched very carefully throughout the whole of the intestinal canal for solid particles, fancying I might discover some solid material, and all I found was about 8 or 9 small seeds which I found to be the seeds of black currant jam, and a small quantity of the pulp of orange; that was all the solid matter I found in the intestines—that would give no result to assist me in my search—I sought, by means of the microscope, for the presence of vegetable poison, but I found none—I then treated the contents of the stomach with alcohol and ether, as I had done before, and again I obtained the same acrid matter from the intestines—the acrid matter altogether that I had then got amounted to just four grains; it was mixed so
as to obtain the whole, in the endeavour to ascertain what its nature was—the fact of Mr. Webb not having put alcohol, or any other antiseptic into the bottle, would not at all interfere with the proper result of the analysis; 5 it is not the rule to do such a thing; it would tend to affect the inquiry to such a degree, that the identity of the material would be lost; we should not be able to judge of post mortem appearances, if alcohol was added; instead of aiding it would obstruct, it would not have interfered with my chemical investigation, but it would have interfered with my post mortem inquiry into the case; it is not at all a usual thing to do—when I received the various bottles, they were closely sealed down—I was not able to determine the nature of the acrid matter, I thought it might be cantharides, and I set to work to make experiments with cantharides on my lip, but I found it produced a very different effect—I did not come to any conclusion in regard to the nature of the substance, until I had made experiments upon all the pure acids that I could obtain—I examined croton oil, veratria or white hellebore, mazerium, black hellebore, colchicum, euphorbium, colocynth, gamboge, and cantharides: all these are vegetables—I tried the effects of all these on my lip, and I found that the only one that produced effects like it, was croton oil—the cantharides blistered, but in a much longer time, and in a very different way; but croton oil produced effects on the lip exactly like it—I then tried the effect of this which I had extracted from the stomach, on a guinea pig—I mixed it with a little water, injected it into its mouth, and it died in 10 minutes, as I thought, from spasm of the glottis—I then took it from the stomach of the guinea pig, by means of alchohol and ether, in a similar manner, and then tried it on sparrows; it was dropped into the mouths of the birds—it killed the first bird in 4 minutes—it killed the second bird in between 4 and 5 minutes—I then concluded that these effects were entirely due to the irritating effect on the throat of the birds—I took a third bird and gave it some treacle and water first; to distend its stomach and lubricate its throat, and the bird was violently sick in a quarter of an hour, and died, I think, the next day—I then tried to get it from the stomachs of the birds, and administer it to another, but it had no effect, it had become mixed with so much fatty matter, which I obtained from the stomachs of the birds, that it seemed to destroy its action—I then proceeded to examine the action of these various irritants upon birds, and upon guinea pigs, and the result was, that only one out of all these irritants, produced any effects like it; and that was veratria—so that veratria did not blister my lip, but killed the birds; the croton oil blistered my lip, but would not kill the birds—the result is that I cannot speak positively as to the nature of the material that I found—I can speak very positively to its being an irritant poison of a very formidable character; I have not the least doubt about that; it acted upon both sides of my mouth, and upon Mr. Webb's also—the whole quantity that I found was very small—if a larger quantity had been administered, although very much diluted, constant vomiting and purging would no doubt be very likely to have god rid of a considerable portion of it—I should not look fur it in the state in which I experimented upon it; I had it in a concentrated form, and it produced greater action on my lip and on the birds than it would in the state in which I found it in the stomach.
COURT Q. Then, supposing it was administered, you do not apprehend that it was administered in the concentrated form in which you found it? A. No, I should think not; I adopted a chemical process to get it so.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You do not infer that it must necessarily have been administered in that oily form? A. Certainly not; it might have been diluted by means of coffee, or milk, or otherwise, and so taken by the person; and if given in the form of a vegetable powder, it would not be in an oily form, although my process would bring it to me in that form; I got it in the shape of the active principle; a sort of essence—the form in which I got it, gave me no idea of the form in which it might have been administered—I have had a good deal of experience in cases of cholera and diarrhoea, and cases of that description, not only in my office in the city, but generally, in my avocations—I have heard the statement of the symptoms of the deceased, as given by Dr. Webb and Mr. Smith, and also by the other witnesses—looking to the symptoms, to the post mortem appearances, to the fact of there being nothing but altered blood in the alimentary canal, and that I obtained from the stomach and intestines an acrid matter, my opinion is that the death arose from the action of a powerful irritant, and was not, I think, produced by natural causes.
COURT Q. That is, produced by disease artificially created, and not arising naturally? A. Just so.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. Is that a clear opinion that you entertain, or have you any doubt about it? A. I have no doubt at all.
Q. It has been suggested that this acrid matter may, by some process of nature, have been the result of spontaneous generation in the body; in your opinion, could that have taken place under the circumstances as they have been stated? A. I cannot speak as to what is possible; all I can say is, that I have examined perhaps more than a hundred bodies chemically, and I never found such a thing arising from natural causes—I am not aware, from my reading or knowledge, of such a thing being generated naturally, or in consequence of decomposition—I found a portion of the same in the vomited matter—I think that fact would completely negative any such supposition: the fact of its being found in the stomach, in the vomited matter, and in the contents of the intestines, shows that it was right through the alimentary canal—I have never met with a case of gastro-enteritis—I have opened bodies in which death has taken place from gastro-enteritis, but I know of no case in my experience of gastro-enteritis arising spontaneously.
Cross-examined. Q. The conclusion at which you have arrived is based upon the symptoms detailed to you, the post mortem appearances observed by you on the mucous membrane, and your experiments with that which you extracted? A. Yes; I do not think I should have come to that conclusion from the symptoms alone, nor from the post mortem appearances alone—a draught of cold water might produce effects such as I saw—I don't think I have observed similar appearances in death from gastro-enteritis; not taking them altogether—there was a break in the symptoms which is very remarkable—taking the post mortem appearances alone, they were not such as I have observed where persons have died from natural causes; they were of the kind that I should hesitate to form a positive opinion upon—I think it possible that such a condition might arise from natural causes, but I have never seen such a thing—I think I saw the mucous membrane within ten days of the death—the mucous membrane is liable to very important changes "within ten days, and within three or four days; but there was an effusion of altered blood, from post mortem effects, on the inner lining of the membrane, the inner walls of the intestines—although I might meet with a post mortem appearance, viz. great redness,
which I should have great difficulty in forming an opinion upon, as to whether it arose during life or was a post mortem effect, I should have no difficulty in deciding upon the case, when I found altered blood along the lining of the intestines—in inflammation of the mucous membrane of the stomach from natural causes, you do not find blood poured forth, unless there be ulceration.
Q. We have already heard that the gastric juice has a power upon dead mucous membrane of softening and even of dissolving? A. You must first get the gastric juice there to do it; and when there is a stomach empty, and when, in my testing, I do not find gastric juice, I am relieved at once from any doubt that might be in my mind from the action of gastric juice—there was no gastric juice—the mucous membrane was in a softened and partially dissolved state—where that has been produced by the action of the gastric juice, there is a chemical and corrosive action—the gastric juice is an animal matter, a combination formed between them; but the gastric juice is not poured out into the stomach or intestines unless there be food or something in the stomach to cause the gastric juice to flow—in the case of a person who has died of disease and has not had any food for some time, there is an entire absence of gastric juice—I never saw a case of a circulation of gastric juice when the process of digestion has been going on at the time of death.
COURT Q. Then the gastric juice would not distinguish the state of the stomach before and after death? A. Not at all; but there is no gastric juice in an empty stomach.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Does not the appearance considerably depend on the distance of time at which the examination takes place? A. Not at all; we may have a redness of the whole alimentary canal simply from post mortem action, without there having been any redness there at the time of death, simply from the action of sulphurated hydrogen, from the blood being locked up in the intestines, which makes it dark—the morbid appearances vary as the examination is made at a proximate or remote period—we find the intestines after death becoming of a very dark red, although there might have been no redness or inflammation at the time of death—that is entirely a post mortem appearance; but I never found another Appearance which I had here, and that was extravasation of blood into the intestines, and that altered blood; I never saw that as a post mortem appearance—the viscera to which I am now referring was obtained after the exhumation of the body.
COURT Q. Do you mean that you never saw extravasated blood as the result of post mortem action? A. Not to the extent of this—recollect I had two ounces of blood taken from the stomach—when I speak of post mortem action, I mean what takes place in the body after death—blood in the interior of the stomach is a post mortem appearance.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. In death from natural causes, if the examination be delayed for any length of time, so that decomposition takes place in any degree, would you not find the whole of the parts red, and the. Blood completely transuded from the vessels, thus dyeing the whole substance? A. Just so; but not coming into the cavity of the intestines; it goes into the tissues—there is this difference in the cases you are referring to, which are very common, and are observed by anybody who has any experience in post mortem examinations; if a post mortem is delayed many days, the intestines would put on a dark red colour, the result of extravasated blood into the tissues, not into the cavity of the intestines; but here are two ounces
of blood taken from the stomach two days after death, and no post mortem effect could have produced such an appearance as that—I know M. Belard, the pathologist, by repute—I do not know it to be a fact that there is extreme difficulty in distinguishing between the morbid and pseudo-morbid redness of the inner coat of the alimentary canal; not when the examination is made immediately after death; it is certainly very difficult when made some days after—no doubt, in order to arrive at an opinion as regards the contents of the viscera and their morbid appearances, the examination ought to take place as immediately as possible after death—it is of great importance that the examination should be made immediately, that there may be no dispute with regard to the degree of the colour, and the vascularity of the parts—I do not say that if that course is not pursued, membranes, in which few or no blood-vessels are at first observed by the naked eye, would become vascular and venous, and assume the appearance of inflammation—there is extravasation of darkening blood into the tissues, which is so likely to be deceptive as to create a good deal of difficulty in deciding as to the case.
COURT Q. Do you make a distinction between vascularity and effusion? A. Decidedly; vascularity is a sign of inflammation during life; extravasation and effusion into the tissues is a post mortem appearance; and there may be difficulty after death in distinguishing one from, the other if the time is long.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Am I to understand you to say that there is never an effusion of blood into the stomach, such as you found, except as the result of some irritant matter being applied to it? A. I did not say so—I think I cannot hesitate as to whether it was effused before or after death—I never knew of an instance of blood being effused in the viscera after death, and I do not think it is possible—in my opinion it must have been effused there during life; and I believe it was the consequence of an irritant, because I found an irritant there—blood is effused into the stomach during life, and without the presence of any antecedent disease; but allow me to say, that if a stomach comes to me with two ounces of blood in it my conclusion is that it has been effused during life; and I cannot, at that stage of the inquiry, form any opinion of the cause of that effusion—I am certain in this case that the blood was effused during life—it is not merely an impression—I cannot conceive it possible that it could have taken place after death.
COURT Q. If you find a dead body with a large bruise, or what you call an ecchymosis, you know very well, do you not, that it must have taken place during life? A. Yes; or so immediately after death that the circulation has not ceased—you can judge from the appearance of a bruise whether a blow was given during life or after death.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is not the effusion of blood into the stomach consistent with natural causes? A. No, it is not, not with the symptoms; there are no natural causes that would have produced the effusion of blood into the stomach, which would have been accompanied with the symptoms—there is such a disease as gastro-enteritis, but it is never accompanied with the symptoms that we have in this case.
Q. Supposing a stomach was handed to you, without the slightest history of the case, and you found the appearances you have described and the contents you have described, would you venture to attribute those appearances and those contents to anything else than natural causes? A. Not at that stage of the inquiry, when given to me; but when I have
finished my investigation and have found an acrid, then I have found the cause—the mere finding of blood in the stomach would tell me nothing beyond this, that it had been effused; I could form no opinion of the cause—from the symptoms alone I should not have been very positive in my opinion as to poison; but I say that there was a break in the symptoms that is not in accordance with symptoms arising from natural causes—I am anxious to qualify my previous answer to this extent, that I say the symptoms alone would not have justified me in forming a positive opinion, nor would the post mortem appearances alone, or the fact of there being blood in the stomach; but then I go to the chemical analysis—the blood might have been in the stomach as the result of disease or natural causes—the four drops was the result of alcoholic solution, and etheral solution—it was an oily matter of about four drops, and was the result of the analysis of all the viscera, and the contents of the stomach, which were given to me, from beginning to end—I did not, for the purpose of making that analysis, put together the contents of the stomach, the vomit, and the viscera—I treated them all separately; I got about a drop from each, altogether four drops, or four grains—I put it in a pair of scales and weighed it; a fluid drop of oily matter is equivalent to a solid grain—the duodenum and the stomach were in the same bottle—there was very little of the oesophagus attached to the stomach, just where the pyloric opens into the duodenum the contents had been taken out, and put into a separate bottle, before the stomach was put into the jar—a portion of the duodenum was cut open, also—I was not present at the exhumation—the fourth bottle contained the intestines taken after the exhumation—the spleen, the bladder, the uterus, and the kidney were all in one jar.; they were separately examined, and I found nothing in them—I don't think I submitted them to alcoholic treatment; I think I searched only for mineral poisons in them—in all cases of mineral poisoning the tissues ought to be examined, and tested for its presence—I first applied this condensed matter to my lip; the croton oil blistered my lip—it produced the same vesicles, I can't call it a blister; a blister is produced by a Spanish fly different from that—the croton oil killed the animal, but not so quickly as the other substance—I treated it in exactly the same way as I did the contents of the stomach—I did not give the croton oil, as croton oil, to the sparrows; but I treated it with ether, in order that it might have the same effect, and that killed the birds in three-quarters-of-an-hour—the veratria did not blister my lip, but killed the animals in three, four, or five minutes, just like that I got from the stomach—I tried the croton oil upon two birds; one died in three-quarters-of-an-hour, and the other in an hour—it produced vomiting, but not purging; there was no time—the birds that were killed with the acrid substance did not vomit, only the last one, which I gave the treacle to, was very sick—I gave some treacle alone to others, and that had no effect—I selected a guinea-pig for my experiments, because I had so small a quantity that I could not venture to try it upon a very large animal—I do not say that no reliance is to be placed upon birds—I do not know that Orfila has obtained such results as to render that doubtful; I dont remember such a statement—I read Orfila much—there is a difference in the minds of toxicologists in regard the value of experiments upon animals—Orfila, and the French toxicologists place great reliance upon them, and English toxicologists but little—as to the whole class of acrids which we are now speaking of, we only know of their effects from the experiments made on animals, by Orfila—I don't think that it is regularly laid down by toxicologists that experiments on animals should rarely form a
part of a medical man's inquiry into a charge of poisoning—there are many poisons that we know nothing of, except by experiments on animals—I selected the animals because of their smallness—a guinea-pig is very closely related to man, that is, it feeds on food which is not very different from our own; it is not an animal feeder, but a vegetable feeder, therefore the experiment would be against me, because vegetable feeders are not so susceptible—the guineapig is not so different in the quality of its food, and in its structure from man as to justify me in not selecting it; or rather to form an objection to my selecting it.
COURT Q. Would the guinea-pig be just as good for the purpose as any of the mammalia? A. Just so, except on this account, that vegetable feeders are not so liable to the effects of poison as animal feeders—a guineapig would be quite as good as a rabbit, an ass, or a horse.
MR. SLEIGH. A. As good as a cat or a dog? A. They would be preferable, if we had a larger quantity of material to act upon, but I did not like to make an experiment upon a cat or dog with four drops—the cat and dog are only selected by toxicologists for experiments, when they have a quantity of material to operate with—I say the guinea-pig is equally applicable, because the viscera are precisely the same, and I suppose the functions are precisely the same—they are very nearly like that of man, with this exception, that they are vegetable feeders, and therefore have a larger alimentary canal, and a more capacious stomach—with that exception, the structure of the guinea-pig is like the structure of man—I never observed that the guinea-pig did not possess a gall bladder—I have opened a great number of guinea-pigs—that is a feet that comes to me now for the first time—I do not think it is so; as far as my knowledge goes, it is not so—I cannot say it is not so, because this is the first time the matter has come before me, but I think I should have observed it—I did not feel that experimenting upon an animal, in any respect different in its viscera from man, would be an unfair test; not under such circumstances as these; we have simply an irritant to test, and the experiment might be made almost upon any class of animal where we might observe the effect—in my opinion it does not matter a bit whether the animal has a gall bladder, a spleen, or a liver; that does not appear to me to affect the question of the irritation on the mucous coat—in administering this to the guinea-pig, I first added, I think, half-a-dram of water to the four drops; stirred them up, put them into a glass syringe, opened the mouth of the animal, and carefully, drop by drop, put it into the mouth—I suppose that might have occupied a minute and a-half—I then put the guinea-pig down; it appeared to be greatly distressed, fell over on its side, and in 10 minutes, as I stood with my watch in my hand, it died—the animal did not lap it up—I put my finger and thumb to open the mouth—I held it by the jaw, not by the neck—it is not the more scientific way to make an incision in the oesophagus, introduce a tube and pour it into the stomach that way—I suppose I have performed as many experiments upon the lower animals as any one, and I have never done such a thing—I know that Orfila recommends it when experimenting upon dogs, because they are so prone to vomit and to cast up the irritant matter immediately, and you are obliged to tie up the oesophagus; but he never does it except on compulsion, in that way—upon an irritant matter being passed over the glottis, the valve which covers the wind pipe, causes spasm, and spasm of the glottis and the larynx causes suffocation—that is one reason why the experiments are conducted by Orfila in the way described, in order that there may be no mistake of the operation on the
stomach, but the main reason is because dogs vomit so readily—I treated the sparrows in this way, I had the material in a small glass, and held the sparrow by the wings; blowing at the sparrow it opens its mouth, catches the glass, and while biting at it, it is carefully tilted and it drops into its mouth—I used a small glass beaker, like an inkstand—it is quite true that what is poison to man is not always poison to the lower animals, and that some of the lower animals are poisoned by substances not hurtful to man.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. As I understand, this was not only hurtful to the guinea-pig, but also to man, as you ascertained by experiment upon yourself? A. Yes; my opinion has not been at all altered by what has passed, that from the combination of the symptoms, the post mortem appearances and the analysis, death was produced by an irritant poison, and not by natural causes—when I was first asked to make this analysis, I do not remember that I was told that the person was suspected to have been poisoned; I think the Coroner's letter first announced it to me—I make so many investigations that have no connexion with poisoning, that I did not form any opinion upon that matter; no information of that sort would produce any change in my analysis. Adjourned.
Friday, October 28th, 1859.
DR. THOMAS ALFRED BARKER . I am one of the physicians of St. Thomas's Hospital, and have been in practice as a physician about twenty-four years—I have heard the whole of the evidence that has been given upon this trial.
Q. Having heard the statement of the symptoms exhibited by the deceased during her illness, the post mortem appearances, and the analysis, in your judgment did she die from natural causes or from the administration of some irritant? A. I believe site did not die from any natural cause—I have never known death take place from such symptoms, except when they were produced by the introduction of some irritant.
Q. Have you had any personal experience of the disease of gastro-enteritis—have you ever had to treat such a case? A. The term gastro-enteritis is hardly used in medicine now, and I cannot answer the question unless I know precisely what is meant by it—I have heard that disease alluded to in the course of the evidence—if by gastro-enteritis is meant a universal inflammation of the lining membrane of the stomach and intestines, I never have seen a case of it except when it has been caused by poison—I do not think the symptoms and post mortem appearances in this case are consistent with death from diarrhaea or English cholera—the symptoms of each of the attacks, for there appears to have been two, are each of them consistent with cholera; but I have never known a case of cholera where there has been so complete a recovery for a time, as there was in this case, and then a repetition of the symptoms; and the post mortem appearances are altogether inconsistent with the supposition that it was a case of cholera.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you mean that gastro-enteritis is a term perfectly new? A. No; it is very nearly obsolete—I have not seen the disease except in connexion with poison—what I should understand by gastro-enteritis would be inflammation of the whole of the mucous membrane of the stomach and intestines; I mean the mucous membrane of the whole of the alimentary canal; the large and small intestines—I say I do not know of it except in connexion with poison—I believe that the general opinion of medical men at the present time is that such a disease does not exist, except produced by poison—I am not acquainted with Martinet's "Manual-of Pathology"—I never heard of it until you mentioned it.
Q. Do you agree with this: "With respect to gastro-enteritis, the previous illness is not essential to the supposition of a case of gastro-enteritis; it some-times makes its attack suddenly without any precursory symptoms first appearing, by vomiting and frequent evacuations, with griping and purging?" A. If by gastro-enteritis you mean what I have stated, universal inflammation of the mucous membrane of the stomach and intestines, I do not agree with it—in the term "universal inflammation" I do not include the serous as well as the mucous membrane—if I had heard nothing of the history of this case, or of the symptoms, but had merely heard the post mortem appearances, I should have said that they were not the result of disease produced by natural causes—I do not intend to say that it is impossible to have arisen from natural disease, but it is altogether opposed to my experience and knowledge—I do not know that there is a marked sympathy between the soles of the feet and the peritoneum—it is stated in books that peritonitis is sometimes the result of damp feet, but I have never known anything of the kind occur—I do not agree with that statement—I do not think that inflammation of the mucous membrane of the stomach may be produced by natural causes, without the introduction of any foreign matter—I believe the opinion of the profession generally at the present day is that acute inflammation, as in this case, of the mucous membrane of the stomach does not arise except from the direct application of an irritant—I do not believe that a poison can be generated in the human frame capable of producing inflammation of the mucous membrane of the stomach—I cannot say that a case has ever fallen under my own observation where the post mortem appearances have been so analogous to poisoning as to induce an opinion that the death was the result of poison, and where subsequent research has proved that opinion to be a mistaken one; but I can hardly doubt that it may be so—I am not acquainted with a case reported by Dr. Hastings, of a young lady who was supposed to have died from the administration of cantharides—I do not remember the case—I have formed no opinion as to the nature of the irritant obtained from the viscera of the deceased—I never met with a case of poisoning by croton oil—I should not think that in a case of poisoning by croton oil the inflammation would be greater in the large intestines than in the small; but I have no knowledge of the matter—I have only seen one case of poisoning by cantharides, and in that case there was a specific effect upon the kidneys causing strangula—I do not think Bichat is looked upon as a very high authority now—upon some points he is, but many discoveries have been made since his day—there is no doubt that in disease the secretions from the different glands become greatly changed; but I am not aware of any gland secreting in disease that which would be more poisonous than that which it secretes in health: I do not know that the bile may, from disease, acquire such an acrimony as to be fatal to animals; I do not know it from my personal observation, or by communication with other medical men, or by my reading—I have read Christison on poisons—I have not read Orfila; I have read extracts from Morganie in other works—Christison and Orfila are first-class authorities as toxicologists—there is not much reliance placed upon anything in Morganie at present—in the older writers I know that cases are cited of the bile becoming so vitiated by some unaccountable change as to prove poisonous to animals; but my belief is that among toxicologists of the present day it is not believed—I do not mean that the cases to which I have referred were fabricated cases; but I believe they are not now accepted as the foundation of medical opinion—I believe that the bile may have been given to animals, and that the animals may have died after
it; but I believe there has been some fallacy in the case; from experiments that are made now it is generally believed that there has been some fallacy in the case—I do not doubt that such cases have been recorded.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. You have been asked with reference to the likelihood of damp feet producing peritonitis; were there any symptoms in this case that you have heard like those of peritonitis? A. Not in the first instance—constipation is not a characteristic of peritonitis; neither constipation nor diarrhoea—if the disease in this case had originated in natural causes I should have expected a continuance of the symptoms—the interval of ease and the recurrence of the symptoms in an aggravated form, I believe are not consistent with natural disease—looking at the combination of the symptoms, the post mortem appearances and the discovery of the irritant matter upon analysis, I entertain no doubt that the death must have been caused by the introduction of an irritant.
COURT Q. You were speaking of certain old statements that appeared in some medical works, which are not now received as the grounds of medical opinion; to works of how far back does that apply? A. I was alluding more particularly to the statements of Morganie; I believe they are very little relied upon—I believe he lived more than one hundred yean ago.
DR. ALFRED GARRBETT . I am a Fellow of the College of Physicians, and Physician to University College—I am professor of materia medica and therapeutics there—I have heard all the evidence that has been given on this trial—I have heard the symptoms described under which the deceased was labouring, and also the post mortem appearances, as well as the fact that there was found in the vomit, in the stomach, and in the contents of the stomach, a certain acrid matter—taking all these matters into consideration, I believe that she did not die from natural causes.
COURT Q. Do you mean that is your medical judgment? A. In my medical judgment, I am unable to explain the death from natural causes—I can only explain it by the action of a powerful irritant.
Cross-examined. Q. That opinion, I apprehend, is formed upon the conjoint report of the symptoms, the post mortem appearances, and the history of the case? A. Upon the whole of the medical evidence—from the symptoms alone, I should not say so; I should very much suspect, but I would not say further, from the symptoms alone—the symptoms are not so marked in degree, I think, in English cholera; still, of course, you cannot depend upon the use of words; there may be much burning and excessive burning, and by the same term different witnesses may mean different things—I heard Mr. Webb state yesterday that he at first believed and treated it as a case of simple diarrhoea, and did not suspect poisoning—every case of irritant poisoning that I have seen has differed very considerably from the cases of cholera that I have seen; but I believe it is merely in the degree of the symptoms, not so much in the absolute nature of them—I recognize Christison as a high authority upon poisons—I think I should, from the post mortem appearances alone, without hearing anything of the history of the case, say that she had died from an irritant poison; I should suspect it; I should say the patient died from gastritis and enteritis; I should greatly suspect so—I never saw a case of acute real gastritis, except from irritant poisoning, and I believe that is the experience of most of the profession—the experience of the profession is, that acute gastritis is excessively rare; enteritis less so—enteritis is where there is inflammation of the peritoneum—Mons. Louis states that in 6,000 cases, in 500 consecutive post mortem examinations, no case of gastritis was found—idiopathic gastritis is excessively
rare—I have never seen a case of acute gastritis, except from irritant poison—I have been physician to a hospital for twelve years, and we have numerous cases every year—I do not think I have seen as many as fifty cases of gastritis—enteritis is inflammation of the small or large intestines—from the post mortem appearances which have been detailed, I consider that enteritis, combined with gastritis, was present—I believe enteritis is sometimes produced by natural causes—I believe it is possible for cold to cause it; in cold, I should include damp feet—I do not believe there is any particular sympathy between the sole of the foot and the abdominal viscera—cold is a cause of many inflammatory diseases—the result of my reading and experience amounts to this; that acute gastritis, as I have stated before, idiopathic gastritis, is extremely rare, but that cases which perhaps might be called idiopathic, or, not produced by an irritant poison, occasionally occur—it is stated that the drinking of a very large quantity of cold water upon a heated subject, has been the cause; and it is stated also that in certain forms of gout acute gastritis has occurred, and from eating very improper diet—I should say that a woman is more liable to be affected by a smaller amount of cause than a man, as a general rule—any powerful impression on the system while suckling, is likely to lead to the diminution or suppression of the milk—I should say that the milk which remains does not become deteriorated or vitiated by the action of inflammation, so as to poison the blood; certainly not—in a case of puerperal fever, I should ascribe the suppression of the milk to the puerperal fever; not the puerperal fever to the suppression of the milk—in puerperal fever, the milk found in the subject alter death is not in a vitiated state; not more than the other secretions.
COURT Q. Is it found in a poisonous state? A. The whole body is in a poisonous condition then.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. The secretions, generally, are so? A. The whole—I have heard the febrile symptoms described by Dr. Webb—puerperal fever generally occurs within a fortnight of the confinement—I should say that the deceased had not puerperal fever—I believe I have never seen a case of death from croton oil, but I have seen very powerful symptoms produced both by it and by cantharides—croton oil is administered medicinally, and sometimes you see it accidentally given in large doses—I never saw a death from it, or from cantharides.
MR. SOLICITOR-GENERAL. Q. Confining your attention alone to the symptoms that were exhibited by the deceased, without reference to the post mortem appearances, did you hear the description given by the witnesses of the interval of ease that occurred? A. Yes; and then some time after the taking of the milk, a complaint, and a recurrence of the symptoms—taking the whole history of the case during life, with the medical evidence, I should have the greatest suspicion that the patient was labouring under the effects of an irritant poison introduced into the stomach, and causing inflammatory action—my suspicions would be very much increased by the post mortem appearances.
Q. That increase of suspicion, being followed by the detection of the irritant poison that you have heard stated, would you or would you not, entertain a clear opinion as to the cause of death? A. I cannot explain the whole case, except upon the supposition of an irritant poison—looking at the symptoms I have heard described, there is no ground at all for supposing that puerperal fever was present—as far as my knowledge, and reading, and experience goes, I should say there is certainly no ground for
supposing that the poisonous substance found, could have been spontaneously generated; the fact of the detection of a portion of it, in the matter vomited by the patient, would show the great improbability, or rather disprove that it was generated after death.
THOMAS CLEWLOW . I am a shoemaker residing at Upper Sydenham—I remember the prisoner coming to my shop—I am not certain what day he came, but I believe it was the 2d January—I think it was on the Thursday—he came to ask me if I had got any "occasion," which is the term shoemakers use for work—I afterwards engaged him as an out-door hand, to work—he worked for me about twelve weeks and three days, up to the time he was apprehended—I am not certain whether I asked him his name, but in the shop he went by the name of Fred Strange—I addressed him as "Fred" when I spoke to him.
JOHN HICKS . I am a carpenter living at Sydenham—I remember the prisoner coming to my house to lodge—he came on Friday, 3d June—he lodged with me till within three weeks of the time of his apprehension, the first week or two of August—he slept with me while he was there—he did not tell me what his name was, he merely gave the name of Fred—I called him Fred—understood that he gave his name as Frederick Strange—I understood that from Mr. Clewlow's men, not from himself—I learnt from him that he carne from Poplar on the Friday.
GEORGE FREDERICK BEST (Policeman, R 21). I apprehended the prisoner at Sydenham on 20th August—I had not been making search for him before the early part of that morning—a reward had been offered for his apprehension—I found him at the shop of Mr. Clewlow—I said to him, "Ah, Mr. Royal, how do you do?"—he said nothing, but was afterwards much agitated, and turned very pale—I said, "What I don't you know me?" he said, "No, I do not"—I then said, "Did you not know me at Poplar?" he answered, "Oh, yes; I knew you quite well."
COURT Q. I suppose that was so, he did know you; were you acquainted with him at Poplar? A. No; I was not at all—I had never seen him before, to my knowledge.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did he ask you to go up stairs with him? A. He did—he then said, before I made any' remark, "I knew you directly I saw you"—I had never seen him before to my knowledge—I was in a private dress—when we were up stairs I said, "Your name is Royal, is it not?"—he answered, "Oh, yes; my name is Royal"—I said, "With reference to my taking you into custody, upon a charge of poisoning a woman, I suppose you understand that?"—he then said, "Yes; I understood that, as soon as I saw you"—I said, "I suppose since you have been here, you have been expecting some one would be after you?"—he said, "Yes; how could I be any other way?"—I then took him to the station—I first took him to the police-station at Sydenham—he did not say anything to me there—I then brought him up to London.
Cross-examined. Q. He at first said he did not know you? A. He did—and then I represented myself as an old acquaintance of his, not knowing that he was the man I wanted—I did not represent that I had known him in times gone by, but I wished him to infer that.
COURT Q. Were you a policeman at Poplar? A. No; at Sydenham—I had never been in Poplar in my life—I think Sydenham is about eight miles from Poplar.
MR. SLEIGH to ELIZABETH STUBBS. Q. When the milk was given on the Thursday, you told us yesterday that it was between 11 and 12 o'clock.
A. Certainly I did; that was true—Dr. Webb came in soon after she took the milk—I should not think it was more than half an hour after, at the outside—I must here state that the deceased used to use a great deal of common washing soda in her tea, which made me very ill once after taking it—she used to use a good deal of the common washing soda in her tea—she used to put it into the pot, when she made her tea—it made me very ill once after taking it.
Q. You had known her for some months? A. Yes; by seeing her at Mrs. Allen's—she told me, when I was with her at her confinement, that she always put soda in the tea, and I would not do so.
COURT Q. How much did she put in? A. I cannot say, because I never put any in; I would not do so—I cannot say how long she had been accustomed to do that—she did not do so at first when the baby was born, because I made the tea then, that was made—I cannot say how soon she began it, because she only made it once, and that was the time I am speaking of, that I had the tea with them—that was on the Friday before she was taken ill—she made the tea then, and directly after I had taken the tea was very ill.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you know that she had put it in before you felt ill yourself? A. Yes; she told me she had put it in—I did not see any harm in drinking it, when other persons were drinking the same—she never complained of it—it produced upon me very violent pain in the pit of the stomach; nothing else—I told her so—I was not frightened—she used one of these brown earthenware teapots—she told me she used the soda to make the tea look strong—I tried it a little once or twice myself and I found it disagree with me, and that was the reason I refused to use it when I was with her in her confinement—I never knew any one else do it—I know many persons use soda to make the hard water soft in washing—I have seen a great deal of the carbonate of soda used in making tea, but not the common washing soda.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. Did you ever taste this washing soda by itself, without being in the tea? A. I have put it into my mouth when I have suffered violently with the toothache—Mrs. Wright's house is about a mile and a half from Mrs. Allen's.
DR. LETHEBY (re-examined). The fact of the deceased person having used some washing soda on Friday evening, in making the tea, and its having given Mrs. Stubbs a violent pain in her stomach, does not make any alteration at all in my view of the case—it is not in any way calculated to throw any light upon it; soda is commonly used for the purpose of softening water, particularly where they wish to have apparently a strong cup of tea—druggist's carbonate of soda is mostly employed, but many persons use the common soda—there is a difference; that which the chemists sell is a bi-carbonate and the other is a neutral carbonate, containing one equivalent of carbonic acid, the other contains two, but they both have precisely the same effect upon water.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. The bi-carbonate is what is popularly called the carbonate refined, is it not? A. Yes; there is very little impurity in common carbonate of soda sold in commerce; it is kept by oilmen and druggists in large quantities for the purpose of selling to washerwomen—the bi-carbonate is a purified preparation kept in stoppered bottles—if taken in large quantities carbonate of soda has a chemical action upon the stomach; it would very likely produce a burning sensation in passing down the throat; if taken in a large quantity, it would act as an irritant, on the stomach as an emetic, and
on the intestines as a purgative; I may be permitted perhaps to say that the tests I employed, viz. alcohol and ether, will not dissolve carbonate of soda, therefore what I obtained could not have been any preparation of soda; I further ascertained that, the ackaline of the blood was due to the phosphate of soda, a natural constituent of the blood—if the soda bad been taken some days before, no doubt a good deal of it would be carried away by the vomiting and purging, but I should expect to find some of it.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. You say carbonate of soda, if taken in a large quantity, would produce certain effects; what do you call a large quantity? A. I should consider half an ounce of soda in solution a large quantity.
COURT Q. What quantity would produce any pernicious effects? A. It would depend entirely upon the quantity of water with which it was associated; the solution is everything—a drachm of soda taken in the form of a powder upon an empty stomach would produce great irritation, but mixed with a pint of water it would probably produce no effect of importance whatever.
MR. SOLICITOR GENERAL . Q. Take the quantity of soda that would be put into a teapot for the purpose of making the tea look strong? A. I do not think it could produce any effect except upon a very sensitive stomach—I have heard what Mrs. Stubbs has said, it does not make any alteration in my opinion—as far as I can judge it has no effect at all upon the medical part of the case—if the effects described resulted from a large dose of carbonate of soda, it would be produced directly; it is very quick in its action.
DR. GARRETT (re-examined). The evidence I have just heard as to the soda, does not make any alteration in my opinion as to the medical facts of the case.
DR. WEBB (re-examined). What Mrs. Stubbs has said does not make any alteration whatever, in my view of the case.
ELIZABETH STUBBS (re-examined). I cannot say where the soda came from that was used for the washing; she fetched it out of the wash-house where I was washing, to put it into the teapot—I can't say how she put it in—it did not disorder the taste of the tea, it only made it look very black—she told me that she always put soda in the tea.
MARGARET ALLEN (re-examined). The soda came from the shop a few doors from where we live; it was my soda—I can't say anything as to whether or not it might have got mixed with any poisonous matter while it was in the shop; from the character of the shop I should not think so—I never used to put any soda in my tea, but the deceased was always in the habit of using it—it was kept on a shelf in the wash-house.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Thursday, October 27th, 1859.
PRESENT.—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald, LAWRENCE; and Mr. Ald. HALE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
afternoon of 25th June, he came to my mother's house about a quarter past 3 o'clock—he walked into the room and asked me how I was—the answer to him was, "There is the door, you are not wanted; walk out"—I went into the next room, and he followed and caught bold of me, and threw me down; and when down he knelt on me, and I saw a knife in his hand—he aimed at my throat with it—I put up my hand to save my throat, and my hand was cut—I then fainted away—he went on very strangely—we considered him not right—I beg to recommend him to mercy.
ANN FRENCHUM . I am the mother of the last witness—on 25th June, the prisoner came to our house—he asked me how I was, and asked me to have something to drink—I refused, and he asked for some water—when it came, he rushed by me into the next room where my daughter had gone—he threw her down—my daughter then screamed out that he bad a knife in his hand—I went into the room and saw them on the ground, and the prisoner had a knife in his hand—it was a knife he had with him, and he was trying to aim at my daughter's throat with it—my daughter was cut; I saw the blood—I had observed the prisoner before this—I did not think he was in his right mind—his conduct was very strange, which was the reason we did not wish him to come.
JACOB VALE ASBURY . I am a surgeon, and reside at Enfield—on 25th June I was called to see the prosecutrix; she had then recovered—I found she had three lacerated wounds on her left hand—one was half-way through the thumb—there were marks of pressure on her throat, and a scratch or two as if done by the nails—I had not known the prisoner before, and had not had an opportunity of knowing anything about him—I saw him on the following morning; he then had appearance of insanity.
Prisoner. I worked with Mr. Burt—I kept company with her, and they had me locked up, and said I was not right in my mind, and Mr. Burt would have nothing to do with me, as if I was not right in my mind I was not fit for him.
NOT GUILTY on the ground of insanity
MESSRS. GIFFARD and ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES GEORGE HATT . I am an usher in the Insolvent Debtors' Court—I produce the schedule of the property of the defendant; this is it—she appeared at the Court on 2d August—the attorney made the affidavit—I administered the oath to her of the truth of the schedule—it is signed by her.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You know Messrs. Lewis and Lewis were employed on the part of the defendant? A. Yes—the schedule was in the usual way prepared by them—I believe they have a large practice—on this second sheet there are some excepted articles amounting to 1l. 19s.—I was informed that the insolvent had two rooms which were locked up, and she had the keys, and if they were not satisfied, they could have the rooms examined—here is an estate paper, and on that the address is given to Barton-street, Westminster—here is a notice given to the broker to make a valuation of the property there—I find on the broker's return that two rooms were locked up, and they had not got the keys—I don't know the writing of Mr. Lewis's clerk—I don't remember whether the defendant was opposed by Counsel on the hearing—I dare say it was so from the practice of
that Court; attornies are not heard; it must be done there by Counsel or the parties themselves—I was present when the case was heard—I remember hearing some letters read which contained some offensive allusions to the attorney.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Just turn to the estate paper, No. 2, about personal property in possession. A. The first item is household goods and furniture—the statement made by the insolvent is the word "None."
ELIZABETH FRANKUM . I am at present a debtor, and detained in White-cross-street prison—I was there at the same time the defendant was there—I remember seeing her after the schedule had been signed—she wrote two letters; these are them—she made a statement to me; she said she had directed some of her things to be removed, because she had been told by Mrs. Wright that she should not have a penny—she said she would have her things removed, so that the brokers should not see them—she said there was some plate and linen, and other valuables—there were several boxes; one large box and four or five others, containing valuables, which she would not part with—she named some articles of bedding; something about eiderdown quilts, and a very elegant velvet jacket—I remember her speaking about some things that some friend had left her to take care of—she said she would say so, or Miss Ritchie would not allow them to be removed.
Cross-examined. Q. You were in Whitecross-street? A. Yes; detained for the costs of an action—I brought the action in my; business name, Elizabeth Follett—there was not a man of the name of Follett in Whitecross-street prison at the time I was—I am a married woman—Mr. Frankum is alive still, and that was the cause of my being nonsuited, because he was alive—I have passed by the name of Fry—I have gone by the name of Stacey—my husband left me eleven years ago—I married Mr. Stacey—I saw Mr. Lewis when he came there to prepare the defendant's schedule—I only saw him once—I did not say anything to him about it—it is no business of mine—the defendant was always quarrelling—I borrowed some money of her—I did not pay her; I offered to pay her, but she would not give me the I O U—we quarrelled about a cat—I took it out of the water and she took it up, and struck me with it—we never were particular friends—I employed a servant named Haggett; she is not my mother—I was taken up before I went to Whitecross-street, on the occasion of which you spoke, and I was remanded—Mr. Stacey was in Whitecross-street at the same time I was.
MR. GOFFARD. Q. You married Mr. Stacey? A. Yes; I had not heard about my husband then—I had no reason to suppose he was alive; I had made inquiry, and had every reason to believe him dead—I recommended Mr. Lewis to the defendant—I was in prison for the costs of the action.
ELIZABETH HAGGETT . I live at 50, Langham-street, Portland-square—in July last I was in Whitecross-street prison—I saw the defendant there—she gave me a letter to Miss Ritchie, 11, Barton-street, Westminster, where she had lodged—I saw her write the letter; I did not see the inside of it—this is the letter (produced)—she spoke about some property—she said the boxes were to be removed out of her room into Miss Ritchie's, because the broker should not see them—the defendant only gave me one letter, but in the house I saw another from Mrs. Chapman—I took the two letters to Miss Ritchie, and gave them to her.
CAROLINE RITCHIE . I am single and live at 11, Barton-street, Westminster—the prisoner was a lodger of mine—when she left she locked her rooms and took the keys away—she did not tell me what she had left in the rooms—I afterwards received a letter from her—these two letters were sent to me
—one I did not receive, but it was sent to me to read, and taken away again—I have never seen the prisoner write.
ELIZABETH FRANKUM re-examined. I saw the prisoner write the letter. (The letters were here put in and read; the substance of them was an intimation to Miss Ritchie that the nurse (Haggett) would meet her and move the boxes belonging to the defendant, to prevent the broker seeing them)
Cross-examined. Q. You received the key from the old lady? A. I did not; it was brought—I sent it back the same day by Mrs. Haggett—it came on the Saturday about 5 o'clock—I told the broker the key had been sent and returned by me—I did not tell him there were boxes and things in the room—I told him the key had been sent and I sent it back—he stopped and talked some time, and he wished me to procure a key—I told him I could not possibly tell what was in the room, for I had never been in—I came there in March—the defendant was there before I came—I did not go in her room—there were, beside the boxes spoken of, tables and chairs in her room, and a coal scuttle and fender—I saw them taken away—I know she had a great many books, but I never was in her room.
MARY CHERRITON . I live in Tufton-street, Westminster—I have known the defendant a short time—I received these letters from her in July, and gave them to Miss Ritchie—I went to her, and she objected to act as Mrs. Chambers wished—I had the key, and I went to Whitecross-street and returned it to Mrs. Chapman.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you attend upon her? A. No, I did not; I attended an invalid lady in the house—I did not attend on Mrs. Chapman at all—she had lived there previous to Miss Ritchie's being there—she had seen a good deal of me—she was a very retired lady—I only saw her once or twice a day—she read a great deal, and was very seldom out of her room at all—she took very little of either pleasure or food—I know nothing of her relations—I don't think any friend called during the time I was in the house.
COURT Q. Did you see Mrs. Chapman when you took the key back? A. Yes; I said Miss Ritchie had not had anything done in the apartments, and I thought it proper to take the key back—that was on the Monday.
ROBERT WILLIAM SCOBEL . I live in Hollywell-street, Milbank—I am clerk to Mr. Robert Reid, of Great Marlborough-street, the auctioneer to the Insolvent Debtors' Court—in consequence of an order from the Insolvent Debtors' Court, I went to No. 11, Barton street, Westminster—certain property was pointed out to me by the policeman—I made a catalogue of the goods—this is it—I did not at the time the goods were there compare them with the printed catalogue—a catalogue was made out in manuscript and sent to the printer's—I did not examine the goods with the printed catalogue—I saw all the goods after the catalogue was printed—the workmen were sent to arrange the goods from the catalogue—I made the marks on this catalogue—these marks indicate that I know these goods were there—I recollect some of the articles that were there without referring to the catalogue—there was wearing-apparel and plated goods—a guitar and case, and two or three trunks, and other things—the entire value was 31l.—it was an ordinary sale, not a forced sale.
Cross-examined. Q. Altogether the whole of the things fetched that? A. Yes; the first payment was for the rent; 5l. was paid to the landlady—that was paid out of the proceeds—the charges for the sale left a balance of 22l. 7s. 11d—that was paid into the Court—I am told the assignee has some commission on that—the policeman who was with me was in plain clothes—he came with the clerk of Mr. Chamberlayn.
MARY WRIGHT . I am the prosecutrix of this indictment—I live at No. 9, Cleveland-terrace, Hyde-park—in 1854 I was living in Cambridge-street—the prisoner came and bought a house and furniture of me—she did not pay me, and in consequence I sued her—I was her detaining creditor at the time of her passing the Insolvent Court—she had paid me 37l. 10s. out of 250l.; she was to have paid me five per cent, for the rest; but she could not pay the money at all—she ultimately owed me nearly 300l.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you present at the Insolvent Court when she was examined? A. Yes—I heard the statement she made about the property—it was with the greatest difficulty I got 25l., in part of what she owed me—I ultimately got 37l. 10s. by three instalments—it was increased by the expenses and the costs of the action, and I lent her 2l—I bought the house with a view of carrying it on as a lodging-house.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you sell the house for the same sum that you gave for it? A. Yes, exactly so, except that I paid ready money down, and I had not the interest to pay.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. LEWIS conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN MILLS . I am an attorney, carrying on business in Brunswick-place, City-road—I procured the probate of the will of Mr. William Atkins, of High-street, Hoxton—he died in November, 1857—in the probate it is stated that it was the 4th of November, 1857—I have not seen him alive since—I was employed to obtain the probate of the will.
Q. Will you produce the probate if you have it here? A. I deem it right to inform the Court that the prisoner was a client for some years, and during that time, from being employed by him, certain papers were put in my hands, which I don't wish to produce without the order of the Court.
COURT Q. The prisoner employed you to take out the probate? A. Yes; I employed a proctor, and the probate was taken out through my instrumentality—I hold it for none but the prisoner—I have merely produced it from time to time in course of proceedings—the prisoner was the only and sole executor.
FRANCIS RICHARD HALES . I am a clerk—I was acting for the family of the testator—I called on the prisoner for an account between him and the testator—I did not see the prisoner personally—I made personal application to Mr. Lewis—an account was rendered—I have it here.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Has the prisoner ever seen this document? A. He has; I got it from Mr. Mills's office—I believe it came through Mr. Mills's clerk, Mr. Lockyer.
GEORGE LOCKYER . I did not give this account to the last witness—it was made out by myself from vouchers and certain other papers which I got from Mr. Norris—I afterwards showed the paper to the witness—Mr. Baker's clerk afterwards called at Mr. Mills's house relative to this account—I saw him, and had a discussion with him—I afterwards communicated that discussion to Norris.
COURT Q. The communication between you and Norris was as your client? A. Yes.
MR. LEWIS. Q. After a conversation between you and Baker's clerk on these documents, did you communicate something to Norris? A. Yes; that was not at the request of Baker's clerk—I will swear that Baker's
clerk did not ask me to say something to Norris—the same documents that were produced at the police court were shown to Mr. Baker's clerk.
COURT Q. Were they produced by order of the Magistrate? A. Yes; I took to the Magistrate's office the same papers that I showed to Baker's clerk—the papers that I produced before the Magistrate were the papers I showed to the clerk.
MR. LEWIS. Q. Were you afterwards called to produce these papers? A. No, I was not, Mr. Mills was—they were handed to him—he refused to produce them.
WILLIAM ATKINS . Q. I am the son of the deceased; his name was William Atkins—the prisoner was his executor—after my father's death I saw the prisoner at the funeral—I had some conversation with him about the estate of my father after the will was read in the evening—the question was put to him what money he had of my father's—he said all the money he had had of my father my father had had back again, and he had got none left—I asked him what had become of 580l. that was placed in his hands to be put into the London and Westminster bank in my father's name—he then acknowledged that he had not placed it in my father's name, but in his own name, and that it had become his own—I said, "Can you produce vouchers to prove that all my father's money is gone?"—he said, "Yes, he could"—I said, "If not, I shall not be satisfied"—I asked him how long it would be before he would be able to produce those vouchers—he said, "In a very short time; I will say a month from this time"—that was agreed upon, and one month went, and two months, and in fact twelve months—I did not call on him again for an account—I had no more to do with it—it was put into the hands of Mr. Baker—I saw the prisoner afterwards, but had no conversation with him.
JOHN MILLS (re-examined). Q. Did you receive some other papers from the prisoner? A. Certain other papers were handed to Mr. Lockyer, my managing clerk—I received a notice to produce them and have the papers here.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you been before that time the prisoner's professional adviser? A. Yes.
Cross-examined. Q. Was Mr. Mills at that time acting as attorney for the prisoner? A. Yes, he was—we should make a charge for the attendance.
MR. LEWIS. Q. Would you make the charge against the estate? A. No, against the executor—these papers were delivered to me by the prisoner.
COURT Q. Was any statement made by him at the time they were delivered? A. I don't recollect; but they were handed to me for the purpose of making the account as executor—they were not given me for any other purpose; it was never mentioned—the object of my having them, was for the purpose of making out the account—Mr. Baker had written to Mr. Mills for the account—I applied for the means of making out the account—I suppose it must have been by letter, but I don't remember.
account with which Mr. Mills had furnished me—when I was at Mr. Mills, certain papers were produced to vouch for the account—these papers were receipts for accounts which the prisoner had paid—I recollect there was a receipt of a surgeon, for 1l. 11s. 3d., another was for gas, 14s. 8d., another for gas, 19s. 6d., a bricklayer's bill for 10l. 15s., an undertaker's bill, 13l. 14s., and a receipt for 20l., signed William Atkins—I did not notice any alteration in the last paper, but in this surgeon's bill, the two gas receipts, and the bricklayer's bill, I did—on noticing this I said something to Mr. Lockyer.
WILLIAM ATKINS (re-examined). I saw these papers at Mr. Mills's—we were altogether to examine those vouchers—I saw a document for 20l., purporting to be my father's signature for 20l., but it had not the least resemblance to it—Mr. Lockyer showed me those papers.
MR. LEWIS to WILLIAM ATKINS. You saw a document for 20l? Yes; it was, Received of so and so, the sum of 20l., and my father's signature, William Atkins—that was certainly not my father's signature, and had no resemblance to it.
ROBERT ATKINS . I am the second son of the deceased—I saw a receipt for 20l. at Mr. Mills's office—I looked at it and said it was not my father's signature—it was, Received of Mr. Norris 20l., dated 20th September, 1857, and signed William Atkins—it was not my father's handwriting, not the least in the world like it.
JOHN ATKINS . I am a son of the deceased—I went with my brothers to Mr. Milk's office, with Mr. Baker's clerk—I saw a documentary receipt for the amount of 20l.—the signature was not my father's writing.
The RECORDER was of opinion that the case ought not to go to the Jury, that the papers were exhibited without the authority or knowledge of the prisoner.
NOT GUILTY .
There were other indictments against the prisoner, for which see Third Court, Friday.
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, October 21th, 1859.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. MECHI; Mr. COMMOM SERJEANT, and ROBERT
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months and Three Years in a Reformatory.
949. EDWARET CLARKE (47), and JOHN WALLIS (47) , Breaking and entering the dwellng-house of Charles Greer and another, and stealing therein 50 dozen knives, 6 dozen forks, and other articles, value 100l. their property. MR. BEST conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES GREER . I am in partnership with my father, a cutler of 79, Newgate-street—on Saturday night, 13th August, about half-past 8 o'clock, I locked up the premises—I was the last person there—I locked the inner-door
which leads into the shop, and also the outer door—the shutters and windows were all fastened—about 11 o'clock next morning, Sunday, I went to the premises—I found the street door as I had left it—I opened it and went in—I found the second door wide open—the goods in the shop had been moved from the glass cases, and put on the floor in piles, packed up in paper, and tied ready to be taken away—on a chair in the entry I found a crow-bar—the premises could have only been entered by means of skeleton keys—I have seen my goods since in the hands of the police.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Does anybody live in the house? A. yes, generally; but there was no one on this occasion—I generally sleep there alone—we have only two boys as assistants; they had left before me—I paid them and sent them away, being Saturday night—a man named Tucker was tried last sessions for receiving these goods, and was acquitted. (See page 651).
HANNAH WARBOYS . I am a servant at Christ's Hospital—on Saturday, 13th August, I was in Newgate-street, on the opposite side to Mr. Greer's shop, and saw two men at his door, one of them had a key in the door—I watched them 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour, they continued all that while—the one with the glasses on (Clark) had a key in the lock—he kept at the lock all that time—I went across the road, but did not go up to them, and just as I got across, I heard them lock the door, and then I made a full stop—I was about two doors off them—the prisoners are the men—they then went away from the door and separated—I saw them again that evening together by the General Post-office about ten minutes afterwards—I had seen the prisoners two or three nights previous at a public-house together—I am quite sure they are the persons.
Cross-examined. What was the name of the public-house? A. I do not know the name—I was there with a friend, it might be for 10 minutes—I was drinking—a great many people came in and out—I noticed the prisoners because I had seen them before, the same evening down by the public-house where I had to wait for my friend—that was about a quarter past seven o'clock—they were loitering about Newgate-street together, and afterwards came into the public-house—I had not seen them before that night—they did not stop many minutes in the public-house—the one with the glasses was sitting on a barrel with a pint pot—I thought the prisoners belonged to Mr. Greer's house—they had time to get in twenty times over—if I had mentioned it to a policeman, and they had been honest men, I might have got into trouble for not minding my own business—I heard the bolt shot and he took the key down, as if he was putting it into his coat pocket.
MR. BEST. Was it in consequence of their fumbling at the lock that you went to have a look at them? A. Yes; I am sure they are the men.
HENRY ROY (Policeman, A 338) I took the prisoners in Berkeley-square, on Sunday evening, 25th September, on another charge—they refused to give their addresses—they were with another person—I received information from Turner, and went the same evening at 12 o'clock to 12, Noble-street, Clerkenwell—I searched a front parlour there, and found these seventy-six skeleton keys, three pick-locks, forty other keys, and a jemmy—one of the keys opens Mr. Greer's shop very easily—I tried twenty more, but none of them would open it—I tried thirty of the common keys to the inner door, and one of them opened it.
Cross-examined. Q. Is the inner door a common lock? A. Yes; I should expect one key in seventy to fit it—I have had frequent experience with
skeleton keys—a skeleton key will not unlock half a dozen locks—they are obliged to be very particular—some of them go in too far, and are obliged to have something put round them; and previous to putting them in they are obliged to have a lot of wax to see where the wards are.
MR. BEST. Q. I suppose a skeleton key, by a little filing, might be made to fit? A. Yes; after trying it for a short time.
WALTER COX . I live at 1, Bull's-head-court, Newgate-street—on Saturday evening, 13th August, I was standing at the corner of Bull's-head-court, two doors from Mr. Greer's shop, and saw a man with a truck—another man came from the shop with a large bag in his hand, which he put in the truck; he then shut the door, and they both went away with the truck towards Skinner-street—the prisoners are the men; the one with the glasses on is the one who came from the house; he had not glasses on then.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you near enough to see their faces plainly? A. Yes; they both passed close by me—I am quite certain that neither of them had spectacles on then.
JOSEPH CORE . I am a lapidary and glass-cutter. On 13th August I lived at 3, Peter-and-key-court—between 10 and 11 that night I was sitting on the step of my door, and saw two men bring two canvas bags on their shoulders, and take them into No. 7, very nearly opposite—they went into the lower room, and came out again without the bags—a man named Tucker was the landlord of the house—Wallis is one of the men; I have seen him frequently in company with the one who is not in custody.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Clark? A. No; Wallis and another man went in; but it was not Clark—they had no truck.
MR. BEST. Q. Could a truck get up the street? A. Not conveniently.
JOHN HENRY TURNER (Policeman, A 421). About half-past 10 o'clock on Saturday, 13th August, I was on duty in Cow-cross-street, and from something that was told me I went to No. 7, kept by Tucker—I searched the parlour, and found two large canvas bags containing knives and scissors, which were produced on the former trial, and identified by Greer—Tucker was taken in custody, tried, and acquitted—I have known Clark for the last three years; he lived at 112, Webber-street, Clerkenwell, and occupied the two parlours.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you any of the property here? A. No.
JAMES GREEN , re-examined. Turner showed me a quantity of cutlery which was my property, and being marked with my name and address he brought it to me—it was part of the stock which had been in my shop the night before—it was produced in this Court on Tucker's trial, and I swore to it.
GUILTY .—They were both farther charged with having been before convicted.
HENRY MORTON (Policeman, L 63). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, September, 1853; John Adams, convicted of burglary and sentenced to Four Years' Penal Servitude.")—I was present; Wallis is the person.
ROBERT MARTIN (Policeman, C 86). I produce a certificate (Read: "Westminster Sessions, February, 1853; Edward Clark, convicted on his own confession of stealing cloth, having then been before convicted; Confined Twelve Months:")—I was present; Clark is the person.
GUILTY.—The officer, Chowne, stated that he had been employed to watch the prisoners for the last three months on suspicion of many burglaries and that Clark
was a companion of Marley, who was sentenced to death for a robbery in Parliament-street. Fifteen Years each, in Penal Servitude.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN FRY . On the morning of 21st September I saw the prisoner and another man lying on their backs in the middle of the road in Wapping—the prisoner had his arms round the other man's neck, who was apparently asleep—I said, "It is very dangerous for you to lie here; get up and go away"—the prisoner looked up and said, "Who the b—y hell are you? "—I told him he might see who I was—he drew this knife (produced) from this sheath at his side, and said, "I will put this knife into your b—y guts," flourishing it about—he followed me, and I caught hold of him to defend myself—he then caught hold of me, and we struggled and fell—while we were down he said, "I will rip you up," and made a stab which went through my great coat and trousers into my thigh—I called out, "You have stabbed me;" he said nothing—we struggled for a minute, when John Irons came up and took away the knife—the prisoner was the worse for liquor, but was not drunk—he repeatedly said, "I will rip you up"—my thigh bled a great deal—I was taken to a surgeon's, and was laid up for three weeks before I could do anything—I am not fit for all kinds of duty now—the prisoner is a sailor.
COURT Q. Was he asleep when you went up? A. No—the other man remained there—the prisoner kept calling out to him, "Charley" but he did not come—this was about half-past 12.
JOHN IRONS . I am a watchman in the London Docks. About a quarter to 1 on the morning of 21st September I saw the prisoner and some other men go to Shadwell-bridge and make some disturbance; they were sent away by some policemen—a little afterwards I saw the prisoner and Fry on the ground near Wapping-wall—Fry called out, "He has stabbed me"—the prisoner was holding this knife, and swearing that he would rip Fry's b—y guts out—I got on him, and got it from him.
Prisoner. I know nothing about it. Witness. He had been drinking, but knew what he was about.
JOHN BROWN ROSS . I am a surgeon of High-street, Shadwell—I attended Fry, and found an incised wound on the front part of his thigh, in a slanting direction, commencing on the outside and extending towards the inside; the first part was only under the skin for half an inch and then it went to the great depth of two inches; it went deeper inwards—it was a dangerous wound; he lost much blood, and I told him that he must leave off duty—for three weeks he did no duty at all—it came near the femoral artery, and if that had been wounded it might have been fatal, if no one had rendered him assistance—this knife might have done it; it is smothered with blood—a great deal of force must have been used to cut through his coat and trousers and then make such a wound—he is a healthy man or he would not have gone on so well.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here reads as follows:—"I must have been very drunk and stupified at the time. I never was in a Court before. I can remember nothing after coming out to go into the public-house. I am very sorry for what I have done.
Prisoner's Defence. I can only say that I was drunk at the time. I
found, next morning, that I had been very badly used and kicked about, and my head had bled very much.
JOHN FRY (re-examined). His head did bleed and he was bruised—he behaved very violently going to the station, and I was obliged to use my staff—I never drew my staff till he called to his comrades to rescue him, and they tried to do so—I was not going to take him in custody when he committed the assault on me; I was only going to get him away from the road, as he was in danger.
GUILTY on the Second count.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. McDONALD conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS HENLY . I am an engineer residing at Upper North-street, Caledonian-road, Islington—on the evening of 6th October I was returning home with my wife along the Caledonian-road, and met a friend who was going to Australia, and went with him to Smith's coffee-house, Caledonian-road—I was a little the worse for liquor—we had a cup of coffee each in one of the compartments—I remember a little of what happened—the prisoners were there; there was tossing for coffee going on, and I believe Scanes proposed it, or else Hook. (THE COURT considered that it would be impossible for the Jury to convict upon this evidence, the witness being drunk at the time, and therefore unable to give an account of the transaction.)
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
MR. AUSTIN conducted the Prosecution.
CAROLINE WELLS . I am single, and live at 7, Tottenham-court-road—on the evening of 26th September, at half-past 10 or 11 I was at the Moss public-house close to the Euston-square station—I saw the prisoner there in his shirt sleeves; he was holding the door as I entered—I stood at the door and had a glass of gin, and waited for the ram to leave off—I went to the door, and he said that it was a very wet night—said yes; I am afraid it will not leave off; he said, "I think not; I live a long way from here, over the water, in the London-road, and I have never been on this side before"—I asked if he should ride or walk; he said that he should walk it—there were a great many people there; one of them was a stout frescoloured man, a Scotchman, he was stooping overcome person who sat down—we remained speaking together 10 minutes or a quarter of an hour—the rain left off—there was another pot had and the stout man shared it—he and the prisoner went to my house; they remained there about a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes, and had a pot of porter—I told the prisoner that it was time for us to disperse as it was getting late; he left, the stout man remained in my room—I left the house by myself about 5 minutes after-wards, leaving the stout man in my room—when I got to the street door I saw the prisoner and said, "I thought you were gone home," he said "Not
yet"—I saw a man and women at the foot of the stairs, and the prisoner spoke to them—I then saw the prosecutor standing on our door-step, with his hand on the rails; he asked me where I was going, I said, to the Ship public-house; he went with me, and the prisoner followed—I believe they had ale or stout there; the prisoner said that they might call for what they wished and he would pay for it; the prosecutor had a glass of stout to him-self, and I had a glass of brandy, and the prisoner had some ale, for which the prosecutor paid—we remained a few minutes, and the prosecutor and I left together, and went to the door; the prisoner and his mate followed—the prosecutor asked us if there was another house where anything could be got to drink; I said "Yes," and we went to the Beans; the prisoner and the stout man followed us—that is the man who I had left in my room—the prisoner had asked me if his mate was still in my room; I said, "Yes"—he said, "Tell him I want him," and I went in and brought him in his shirtsleeves—that was at the first public-house—when we got to the second public-house, he said he would not pay for anything there, because of the number of people that got round him, and I said, "Do not"—we left that public-house and went towards Tottenham-place; the prisoner and the stout man followed us a certain space behind, about as far as I am from the Judge; to the corner of Grafton-street, where the stout man seized the prosecutor by the throat—he threw him on the pavement, on his back, the prisoner fell on him, and I saw a watch and chain in the prisoner's hand; they then flew back immediately in the direction that we had come—the prosecutor laid insensible for a few seconds—I stood still for a few minutes; I could not speak, as I could hardly believe what had taken place—I called "Police" twice, and the prosecutor called out likewise—I left him there and went to look for a policeman—I did not see him again till I was brought to recognise the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. LITTEY. Q. Are you an unfortunate girl? A. Yes; I went out about 9 o'clock—my child lives with me—I had never seen the stout man in my life before—it was about 10 when I saw the prisoner first; that was at Mr. Moss's public-house—I did not see the gentleman there—we all three went home to my lodgings and had something to drink—the stout man was going to stop the night with me—when I saw the gentleman with his hand on the rail he was capable of knowing what he was about—he spoke to me, and I went with him to Mr. Thompson's beer-shop—he offered to treat everybody, but I do not know what they had—the prosecutor was never in my house, or in any house with me, for I was not alone; these persons were with me—when I got to the corner of Grafton-street I said that I would not go any further; that was because I had neither cloak nor bonnet on—I knew that when I started; but it rained, and I had nothing on; it did not rain when I started—I did not ask him to come back with me—there were no persons in the street; there was no policeman to be seen—the prisoner and the other man left the last public-house a space behind us and followed us—when I could not find a policeman, I returned to my lodgings—I have been in custody for having a drop of drink, or a row in the street, but nothing else—I was never charged with robbing anybody.
MR. AUSTIN. Q. Was it a very rainy night? A. Yes; the public-house I was going to was no distance; it was right opposite.
GEORGE HEBDEN . I live at York-chambers, Aldelphi—on the evening of 26th September I dined out, rather convivially—I left my friend's house at about half-past 10—I had business at Camden-town, and went up there; I
subsequently returned, and about half-past 11, or a quarter to 12, I was at the end of Tottenham Court-road alone, looking for an omnibus—I saw Caroline Wells at the door of a public-house kept by Thompson; she asked me to treat her to something to drink—I gave some of the other persons drink as well—I saw the prisoner there; he was one of those whom I treated—there were two or three others with him—he and a stout man were together—I left that public-house; the young woman walked by my side—I then went to the Southampton Arms, and afterwards to the corner of Grafton street—I turned quickly round and the prisoner and another man were close to me—the other man seized me violently by the neck and garotted me, and the prisoner took my watch-chain and appendages—I was thrown down and became perfectly insensible—upon recovering myself I found my waistcoat buttons torn as they are now (produced)—I also lost a gold pin, but I think that was broken in the struggle, because the man's arm passed round me.
Cross-examined. Q. When you were left by yourself where did you go to? A. To the shop—it was as near half-past 12 as possible—on my recovery, I found myself alone, and it rained in torrents—I had never seen the prisoner or the stout man before that evening, nor had I seen Caroline Wells—I had never gone anywhere with her—my recollection is perfectly clear about that—I did not see her come out of the house—she asked me to treat her at the bar of Mr. Thompson's public-house—there were three or four persons there, and a larger number at the other house—I presume I talked to her when I walked with her—she followed me—Grafton-street is about 200 or 300 yards from the public-house, perhaps a little more—I left my friend's house about half-past 10—I had certainly dined—I was not as sober as a Judge—I only went into two public-houses with this person, or with any other—I may have gone in somewhere by myself—I did not go into any house within an hour and a half before I went first into the Southampton Arms, and there I took something which I believe, disagreed with me—that house is called the "Beans"—I next saw the prisoner at the police-office about two evenings afterwards, as near as I can recollect.
MR. AUSTIN to CAROLINE WELLS. Q. Did you show the policeman a coat? A. Yes—it belongs to the stout man who is not here—I saw this piece of writing (produced) that evening—the prisoner wrote it, and gave it to the stout man, saying that that direction would find him any time he wanted him—he wrote it at the public-house at the corner of Euston-square.
JOSEPH LAMBERT (Policeman, E 68). On the morning of 27th September, I went to 17, Tottenham-place, Tottenham-court-road, and saw Wells there—she showed me a coat in which I found this piece of paper—in consequence of which I arrested the prisoner in the neighbourhood of the place named on it—I told him the charge—he said, "I know nothing about. it, I was not there; I was at Bermondsey that night"—the prosecutor afterwards identified him at the station, and Wells did also.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there any other policeman there at that time? A. Yes; the man who had taken the prisoner in custody was there—the date I mentioned to the prisoner was the 26th, but it was on the 29th he was apprehended, about 12 o'clock at night—the man who took him said nothing, in my presence, about the date on which the robbery was committed—I am not mistaken about his stating to him that it was the 26th—Caroline Wells lives in a low neighbourhood, but a great many respectable people live there—there are respectable people living in the house.
Cross-examined. Q. What became of him? A. He walked into the "Beans" public-house, and I told him to go away—I had not seen him before that night—I did not see Caroline Wells that evening.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been twice before convicted.
JOHN ALLINGHAM (Policeman, M 246). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, June, 1854; Samuel Starkie, convicted of burglary. Confined Nine Months.) I was present—the prisoner is the person—I am sure of him—I have seen him several times since, and he has been under my eye.
JOHN HULL (Policeman, P 164). I produce a certificate (Read: "Surrey Sessions, July, 1857; Joseph Berry, convicted of stealing a watch, from the person. Confined Twelve Months.) I was present—the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY.**— Six Years' Penal Servitude.
FOURTH COURT.—Thursday, October 27, 1859.
PRESENT.—Mr. Ald. ALLEN; and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, Esq.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq., and the First Jury.
MR. WAY Conducted the prosecution.
ARTHUR FITZAHALL (Policeman, B 98). On 19th September, about a quarter-past 6 in the morning, I was in James's-place, Marlborough-road, Chelsea—I found the prisoner in a yard in 13, James's-place, lying down in a state of stupor—I found a tart near her, with some powder on it—a man named Fowler got a cab, and I conveyed her to St. George's Hospital—I left the tart in the hospital with Dr. Winter—I found a pocket-book in her pocket, containing 5s.—I found this letter (produced) as it is now, partly in ink, and partly in pencil—(This stated that the prisoner ran away from home to destroy herself; that the 5s. which would be found in her pocket was for her mother, to whom it belonged; that her parent's address was Hope-cottage, Clarence-road, St. Pancras; and that she had a sister living at 6, Upper Fitzroy-street, Fitzroy-square; signed, "Elizabeth Hughes, aged 14 years")—I went to Hope-cottage the same day, after I left the prisoner—I found the mother there—I gave her the 5s., and told her that I found it in her daughter's pocket.
Prisoner. I left my home because my mother ill-used me, and was always drunk. She gets her living as a prostitute in the street. Witness. Her mother has been living with a man eleven years, and keeping him on her own prostitution; and she has a sister living at Fitzroy-street, who is a prostitute, and walks Regent-street.
JOHN FOWLER . I am tradesman, and deal in coal and coke—I am also a laundry-man—I live at 9, James's-place, Chelsea—on 19th September, my attention was attracted by the prisoner in the morning—she was betwixt two butts, at 13, James's-place—she was not insensible—I could not get her to speak to me—she shook her head, but would not speak—she had no shoes on—I called a policeman to look at her—he asked her to get up; I said,
"She is not able"—I left her there then between the two butts—she said, about five or ten minutes after we found her, that she had taken poison, and the policeman took her in custody.
HUGH BOLD WINTER . I am one of the resident medical officers of St. George's Hospital—on 19th September the prisoner was brought to the hospital between 6 and 7 in the morning—she presented the usual symptoms of poisoning by some mineral poison; such as what is commonly called precipitate—I treated her in the usual manner; and she recovered in about a week, and left the hospital—a tart was given to me by the policeman, covered with a white powder—it had white precipitate on it, to the best of my belief—that would have caused the illness of the prisoner.
COURT Q. Was the tart partly eaten? A. It was half eaten.
GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the. Jury. Judgment respited.
MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE REECE . I live at 129, Drury-lane, and carry on the trade of a carver and gilder—in August last, the prisoner came to my shop—he came to me, first of all, through an advertisement of mine, which was in Lloyd's—on 24th August, he came to me, and said that he had a great quantity of orders from Mr. Barclay—I said, "Is it Barclay, the brewer?"—he said, "No; the Magistrate "—he said that Mr. Barclay lived at Walthamstow, in Essex, but was then in the country—he said he had a debt of 45l. against Mr. Barclay, and he put his hand into his pocket for his book, to show me; he did it so naturally that I was quite deceived—he said, "Oh! I have forgotten the book; I will show it to you next time"—he ordered of me (Referring to his day-book) two large gilt frames, with glasses and backs, which came to 3l. 2s.—the next order was on 31st August—I could not be positive as to whether he came, or sent an order—it was for a large looking-glass, 3l. 12s. 6d.—I should not have sent the things unless he had given the recommendation about Mr. Barclay—he got other goods from me at other times—I credited him right on—he came again to my shop, I should think about a dozen times—he always ordered goods on those occasions, and he always had them—he was always in a very great hurry for them—the second time he came he said that Mr. Barclay had come home and had given him a great quantity of orders—he said, "I shall want a load of things for him, from you"—in consequence of the representations he made, I let him have the goods—altogether he had goods to the amount of 80l. 16s. 1d. from me—he gave me a reference to a Mr. Crossman, who, he said, was a respectable housekeeper in Walthamlstow—I did not apply to Mr. Crossman—I was fully satisfied with the statements he made about Mr. Barclay and the 45l.—if I had not believed those statements, I should certainly not have let him have the goods.
Prisoner. Q. When I sent you the order for 5l. how much did you send me? A. I sent you 7l. 12s. for a sample—you wrote to me first; I do not know the date exactly, but you came to me personally on 24th August—you mentioned Mr. Barclay's name—I said, "Is that the brewer? and you said, "No; it is the Magistrate."
COURT Q. Did you send more goods than he ordered, at any time? A. Only the first lot—I did not ask him when he came to the shop, whether he could get things off my hands for me—he always said that he had orders—I did not apply to Mr. Crossman, because I was satisfied with what he said about Mr. Barclay—I did not know that there was such a person—I
inquired of a person that knew somebody at Walthamstow, and they said that there were such people, very wealthy people—I was to have the money directly Mr. Barclay paid him—he was to pay the prisoner on 30th September—I supplied goods up to the 30th—I sent my bill in on 1st October—he sent in his bill to Mr. Barclay on 30th September—I waited very anxiously till 6th October, when I received this letter from him—I knew the prisoner's writing from previous letters which I received—(Letter read: "London Bridge Coffee Rooms, Wednesday. Dear Sir,—I shall be in town to settle my little account on the 15th; I would have come before, but urgent business calls me to Portsmouth for eight or ten days; please to get the maple frames ready by then, and I will give you further orders")—I went after him to Walthamstow directly I received that—when I got there he had absconded—he was not in Walthamstow.
JAMES DOWSE . I am a carrier between Walthamstow and London—between 9th September and 1st October, I took parcels of goods from Mr. Reece to the prisoner at Walthamstow, and delivered them—I could see on 9th September that the goods were frames, and on 1st October they were frames and pictures—I did not observe what the other goods were—the prisoner had a small cottage at Walthamstow, for which, I should think, he paid about 8s. a month—there was merely a parlour-window in front—he appeared to be doing a very nice trade—he appeared always at work.
COURT Q. When you took any goods there, did you see them in this parlour? A. Yes—I did not observe them disappear—it was a cottage of about four rooms—he had the whole of it—the goods were generally packed in cases such as glass goes in—I was once in Mr. Reece's shop when he packed the goods—they were pictures and a looking-glass—Mr. Reece never asked me about what business the prisoner carried on at Walthamstow—I looked upon the prisoner as a respectable tradesman as he was always at his business—I did not bring the goods to London for him; I could not do it—it was on a Monday that I took him the last goods—I called there on the Sunday morning, and asked if I could bring them on Monday morning, as I did not like having my cart out on Sunday—I did so, and delivered them to the prisoner's wife—on the Tuesday he came to my house for his account, and he asked me if I had a van, and if I could remove the goods—I recommended him to a party, but they did not do it—he did not pay me—he gave me an address to call and see him; I believe it was John-street, Edgware-road—I saw the goods that he wanted removed; they were all packed up in the cases—they were pictures, frames, mouldings, and such things—I do not know whether the things that he wanted removed were what I had taken there—I saw all sorts of boxes and cases—I could not say at all how many there were; less than fifteen; perhaps half a dozen—there were not so many boxes there as I had brought down to the place, because he always returned the empty boxes, except the ones I brought down on October 1st—I thought it rather singular that he should want to go to the Edgware-road, but he said that he had taken a business there, and thought he should be doing better, as he was known there—I bought a picture of him for 17s.—my account was 13s., and I paid him the 4s. extra—that is all I have of the goods from the prisoner.
CHARLES CARPENTER (Police-sergeant, N 45). On 6th October, I received some information from Mr. Reece, in consequence of which I endeavoured to trace the prisoner—I ultimately found him, on 27th October, at 19, Southwark-square, Union-street, Borough—I was about a fortnight finding him—I saw his wife there, and his brother's wife—I found on the place forty-one
picture frames, one looking-glass, two pictures, two maple-framed prints, one oil painting, and a large quantity of gilt moulding and maple framing; such as is used for making picture frames—Mr. Reece was with me; he identified all that I found as his property—some of the things are here—I have traced some others since—(Some pictures and frames were here produced)—there was a cart load of these sort of things altogether.
GEORGE REECE (re-examined). These, and the other things spoken to by the last witness, are my property, and were obtained from the prisoner—there was not one quarter got back of the things that he obtained from me.
CHARLES CARPENTER (re-examined). I did not find any more of the prosecutor's property in that house, but I have elsewhere, since the first examination of the prisoner—I found some that he had sold—the prisoner was not in the house at the time I went—I left one constable in the house in charge of the property; another one I left outside to watch for him when he came home—I went away—when I returned I found him in custody—he did not say a word to me.
GEORGE HUNTER (Policeman, N 357). I went with sergeant Carpenter to this house—I was left outside to watch—when I was in Union-street I saw the prisoner come up—I stopped him and asked if his name was Midmer—he said, "No;" that it was Harden—I asked him if he lived at Waltharm-stow—he said, "No"—I told him that I was a police constable, and should take him into custody—I was not in uniform—he said, "What for?"—I said, "For obtaining goods under false pretences"—I told him that we had got possession of all the things, and he said, "Oh! I have sold all them, and if you had not come as you have I should have been off to America by next Wednesday"—I then took him to the house where he was lodging, 19, Southwark-square, and afterwards to Walthamstow station.
JOHN HARSE (Policeman, N 442). I was engaged with sergeant Carpenter in making inquiries after the prisoner—on 27th October I went to 19, South wark-square, and there inquired for the prisoner by the name of Midmer—I went in with sergeant Carpenter and saw the property found—I was left in charge of it—I was there when the prisoner was brought in, in custody, by Hunter—he said that if we had not come when we had, he should have been off to America—I assisted in taking him to Walthamstow.
HENRY FORD BARCLAY, ESQ . I live at Walthamstow, Essex, and am a Magistrate for the county—I do not know the prisoner at Walthamstow—I never saw him in my life, to my knowledge, till at the Stratford police-office—I never gave him any order or authorized him to use my name—there is no other person at Walthamstow of the name of Barclay, a Magistrate—on 24th August I was away from home.
Prisoner's Defence. I was in a small way of business in Walthamstow, and seeing an advertisement, I wrote to Mr. Reece. I never meant to have more than I could pay for at the end of the quarter. He wrote to ask for a reference; I sent him a testimonial from a situation I had been in for five years, and I sent word to say that Mr. Corshaw knew as much of me in Walthamstow as any one did. When I sent the testimonial I sent an order for about 10s.; Mr. Reece said he was quite satisfied, and he sent that order and said I had better let him send me a sample for 5l. I let him do so, and he sent me a sample for upwards of 7l. I had to go to his shop at the
end of August for an order for some things for a gentleman named Beatley—I do not think I mentioned the gentleman's name; if I did that is all he could have got the name of Barclay from—every time I sent him an order he always sent nearly double what I ordered.
COURT to GEORGE REECE. Q. Did the prisoner give you any acknowledgement of his having received those goods? A. I have an I O U for the goods which he sent by post when he found the police were after him—I have not got it here—it is at home—it is 75l. 19s. and something odd—he did not give me the reference to Corshaw in writing, when he first wrote to me—he was to pay me at the latter end of September or the commencement of October, when Mr. Barclay paid him—he was not to pay quarterly—I have no testimonial of his—I never had one.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
PLEADED GUILTY , and his master agreed to take him back.— Confined Two Months.
NEW COURT.—Friday, October 28th, 1859.
PRESENT—MR. BARON BRAMWELL and MR. ALD. CONDER.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell and the Sixth Jury.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
WALTER SOLEY (Policeman, K 390). At a quarter before eight o'clock at night on 17th October I was on duty in the Commercial-road—I heard cries of murder, and on going up I found a woman in Hungerford-street—she made a complaint to me that a man had struck her on the head with a poker, and I saw that she had a bump on her head—I asked her where the man was, and she said he was in the house, No. 12, setting the house on fire—I went in the house, and asked the woman to lend me a candle—I went into the back room where I found a lot of things blazing up against the partition—the room was full of smoke, and all the sashes almost out—two civilians went in with me—we put the fire out—I inquired for the prisoner—they said, "He is not here; he is gone"—I went and found him in a neighbouring house, and the woman that had been assaulted charged him with setting her house on fire—she said, "Fetch him out of the house, and I will appear against him"—I sent for another constable—I went in and asked the woman to lend me a candle, and she did—I went up stairs to the room where the prisoner was—I found him sitting on a chair—he said, "What the b—y h—I do you want here?"—I said, "I want you for assaulting a woman in the street, and setting the house on fire"—he rose up from the chair and said, "You b—r, I will assault you if you don't go out of my room"—he advanced towards me with this knife in his hand—he said, "Are you going out of my room?"—I said, "I shall not go out of your room till such time as I take you with me"—he came towards me with his right hand behind him, and just as I went to take hold of him he struck me in the eye with the knife, and stabbed me—the other constable, Carr, rushed forward to my assistance, and together we took him—I said to my
brother constable, "Take hold of him; he has stabbed me"—he appeared perfectly sober.
Prisoner. Q. Why did you not fetch the woman to give me in charge? A. I did not see her till I was in the station.
THOMAS CARR (Policeman, K 302). I went to the assistance of the last witness—I went in the house with him and saw the prisoner there—he was sitting on a chair—he got up and asked my brother constable what he wanted—he told him he wanted him for assaulting a woman and setting fire to her place—the prisoner used very bad words, and came towards him with his right-hand behind him, and he drew this knife and attacked him—I saw the blow struck with the knife, and saw the blood—this is the knife that we took from him—he was not drunk.
JOHN BROWN ROSS . I am a surgeon, and live in High-street, Shadwell—I saw the policeman Soley—I found an incised wound on the upper lid of the left eye, and a punctured wound on his nose—it was all done with one cut—the wound was just over the ball of the eye, and it had passed down to the cheek-bone—it appeared to me that the upper lid was taken down over the eye, and the instrument then went to the cheek-bone—it must have been done with considerable violence—it was a miraculous escape for the eye—it was in a very dangerous place.
The Prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"At 8 o'clock last night I was returning home, when I was called, by a woman who calls herself my mother, a b—y thief I asked her why she did it. She said, 'You won't let me see my children.' I said, 'You shan't see them.' She again began her abusive language, and while I was looking at her I was knocked down by my father, and while I was down, three sailors, as well as my father and mother, ill-used me, and I was glad to escape from them into my own house. While I was sitting on a chair, three constables came into the room. I asked what they wanted. They said they wanted me as a prisoner for abusing a woman. I said, 'Produce the woman that gave me in charge;' and I said I was the abused party, and they should hear it when I got a warrant at the police-court. The officer would insist on taking me. I said he had no right in my house, and I said I should not go with him. He struck me on the head with his staff, and before I could recover myself he struck me again on the left arm. With that I took hold of something that was on the table, I don't know whether it was a knife or a fork, and I struck at him. I thought it was wrong, and whatever I had I threw it on a dresser, and then put down my arm and said I would go quietly."
The Prisoner called
ELIZA SYLVESTER . I am the prisoner's daughter—my father got up and said to the officer, "Go out of my place"—the officer struck him, and my father returned the blow—he had no knife, but this piece of wood (producing a broken rail of a chair)—and then my father said, "Let me alone; I will go quietly."
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did the officers beat him before that? A. Yes, they did beat him—he had no knife at all—this piece of wood was down by the side of the chair where he was sitting—he hit the policeman, but I don't know whether his eye was cut or no.
COURT to WELTER SOLEY. Q. Do you hear what this girl says? A. Yes;
I did not strike the prisoner with the staff till after he struck me with the knife; directly he struck me I drew my staff.
COURT to THOMAS CARR. Q. Who struck the first blow? A. The prisoner did; I distinctly saw the knife in his hand.
COURT to MR. ROSS. Q. Could this stick, which the girl produces, have caused the wound you saw? A. No, it could not.
GUILTY on Second Count.—Ten Years Penal Servitude.
The COURT directed a reward of 10l. to be given to the officer Soley.
MR. THOMPSON conducted the prosecution, and MR. GIFFARD the defence.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Friday, October 28th, 1859.
PRESENT—MR. RECORDER, and ROBERT MALCOLM KERR, ESQ.
Before Mr. Recorder and a foreign Jury.
959. JOHN NORRIS (62) , was charged upon five indictments with forging and uttering receipts for the payment of the sums of 10l. 15s., 13l. 14s., 19s. 6d., 14s. 8d., and 1l. 11s. 3d., with intent to defraud; upon which no evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY .
(See page 795).
MR. GENT conducted the Prosecution.
The prisoner being a foreigner, the evidence was explained to him by an interpreter.
MARY ANN IRELAND . I am the wife of Thomas Ireland, of 11, Old Compton-street, Soho, a boot closer—we let apartments—the prisoner had apartments there and gave the name of Victor—he came about the beginning of August, and occupied a double-bedded room—he left about the 11th or 12th of September, without notice—I did not know that he was about to leave—he never gave me the street-door key, and I suppose he took it with him—he owed me some money for rent—on the night of 18th September, I went to bed about 11 o'clock; everything was then safe—next morning, Monday, about 5 minutes to 6, I came down, my husband having gone down first, and he called me—I found the window open, and missed a quantity of things, among which was a looking-glass and eight table-cloths, six of which have been found; also a leg of pork, some sugar, tea, and butter—the looking-glass had been between the bar door and the bar window—this is it (produced), and these are my table-cloths; this is part of the bag in which my sugar was—I know it by its being marked 6 of 6, that means 6lbs. at 6d. a pound—my sugar is always marked so, as the grocer made a mistake once—I next saw the looking-glass at a broker's in Tower-street.
Prisoner. Q. How many persons were living in the room? A. No one but you, there was one in the other room—they are separate rooms—the door between them was locked—you could lock one another in if you liked—I do not know which of you went first; you were both friends, and both went—I found a street-door key on your bedroom table—I do not know
which of you it belonged to, as you each had one—they are all alike—I went to make the bed a day or two afterwards and found that it had not: been slept in—you did not often pay for the other man's breakfast, he paid me more than you did.
ELIZA HARVEY . I live with my father at 15, Castle-street—he keeps a coffee-house—the prisoner was in the habit of coming there—he gave me these table-cloths to keep—I did not unfold them—that was a month before I gave them to the policeman—I asked him where he got them, and he said from his young woman, and that he was going to sell them.
RICHARD DUNCAN . I live in Tower-street, and am a furniture dealer—on 19th September, I was sent for to Castle-street to look at a lot of furniture at the coffee-house—I saw the prisoner there, sitting down with, this looking-glass in front of him; he offered to sell it—I offered him 4s. for it and he would not take it—he called on me with it in the evening, and I gave him 4s. for it—I did not know him before.
GEORGE APPLETON (Policeman, A 308). I took the prisoner on the evening of 10th October, in Titchborae-street, Haymarket—he said, "Why do you take me in custody"—I said, "On suspicion of being concerned in a robbery at 11, Compton-street"—he said, "I know nothing at all about it"—I asked him if he knew anything respecting a looking-glass; he said, "No"—I then asked him if he knew anything about some table-cloths, or if he had sold any—he said, "No"—I took him to the station and sent for Duncan, who picked him out from among several other persons—I then said to the prisoner, "You hear what Duncan says"—he said, "Yes, I did sell him a glass"—I asked him how the glass came into his possession—he said it was given to him by a Frenchman, a friend of his, who owed him some money—I asked him if he knew anything about some table-cloths—he said, "I believe there were some table-cloths left at a coffee-house in Castle-street by my friend, the Frenchman"—I searched him and found six duplicates, and 10 3/4 d.—all this conversation passed in English; he speaks English perfectly—this was just before the examination before the Magistrate; And after the examination I went to 3, Bateman's-buildings, Soho, and found this key on the mantelpiece behind the glass, and this sugar bag in a cupboard among the waste paper—I received these six table-cloths from Eliza Harvey.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"My comrade gave me the table-cloths and looking-glass; he owed me 9s. and gave them to me in payment."
The prisoner in his defence stated that he received the articles from his friend.
GUILTY .*— Confined Eighteen Months.
There was another indictment against the prisoner.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Seventh Jury.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
ISAAC GREENAWAY . I am a tailor and hatter, of 5, Limehouse-causeway, St. Anne's, Limehouse; the prisoner lived with me twice as servant; first for eleven years and a-half, and there was an interval of about nine months between the first and second service; he is twenty-nine years of age—he was apprentice to me—on the evening of 16th October, I left the, house, the prisoner remained there and Samuel Hemmings my apprentice—I received information about 10 o'clock, returned as quickly as possible,
and found the house on fire, both the cellar and kitchen—the cellar adjoins the kitchen—the tube that goes from the kitchen to the kitchen-stairs had been on fire, as also was the cellar and staircase; the door leading from the kitchen to the coal cellar was burnt—the whole room was blackened and scorched—the joists on which the shop-floor is placed were very much burnt—there was no fire when I left the house, only in the kitchen grate—I have had no quarrel with the prisoner—I am not in any pecuniary difficulties in particular—I have been answerable for two heavy loans, and have them to pay; but I had arranged everything for them to be paid—there was nothing that made it appear as if I had been in any difficulties; but the prisoner was quite aware of all my circumstances—he stays in the shop all day.
Prisoner. Q. What time did you go out on the Sunday previous in the afternoon? A. I think about from 4 to 5—I had noticed that you were very melancholy and miserable; you told me it was about my affairs—I have heard you state that you wished you were out of existence, and you have stopped at home from church, which is a very unusual thing with you.
SAMUEL HEMMINGS . I am apprentice to last witness—on Sunday evening, 16th October, I was left alone with the prisoner—when my master went out it was about half-past 6, I left directly after my master; the prisoner remained behind, alone in the house—there was no fire in any part of the house except in the kitchen-grate; it was a very small fire—I returned to the house soon afterwards, in consequence of receiving information as to the state of the house—I found the house totally on fire; I found no one in the house—I did not see anything of the prisoner—I got in up stairs through the window; there was an engine before the door playing; the police were there, but not inside.
Prisoner. Q. Had you observed me in a very dejected state? A. Yes; I have often heard you wish yourself out of existence.
COURT Q. How long had he been like that? A. About 5 or 6 weeks; quite changed from what he was before.
PHILIP BEARE , (Police-inspector). From information I received on the night of 16th October, I went to the house of Mr. Greenaway; I got there a few minutes after 10 o'clock—I saw smoke and appearance of flame issuing from the front grating, from a cellar under the shop—there was an engine at work—I went in the house with Mr. Fogo, of the fire-brigade; the prisoner was not there then, he came in shortly afterwards; he was questioned as to the cause of the fire, he said, "I was asleep on the stairs, and I was woke up by the smell of smoke and gas, and thought there was an escape of gas, and lit a piece of brown-paper and went down stairs to find where the escape of gas was"—Fogo then asked him to point to where he was, and he felt about the ceiling of the kitchen, and after a few minutes pointed out a part of the gas pipe that had been burnt away, near the kitchen-door—Fogo did not say anything to that at that time—a few minutes afterwards I went down into the cellar, and I asked the prisoner what was the first thing he did after he found the house was actually on fire; one of the fire-brigade men was present at the time; the prisoner replied, "I went up stairs, and got my master's writing-desk"—a few minutes passed, and I referred to some wood that had been burning in the cellar, and I said to the prisoner, "What wood is this?" he replied it was wood for lighting fires; I said it was very strange, it was my duty to inquire about the matter—I then again asked the prisoner what was the first thing
he did when he first found the house actually on fire, and he laid, "I went up stairs and got my own clothes; "I reminded him then that he had told me he went up stairs and got his master's desk—he made no reply to that, but appeared confused and agitated, and he said, "What is done I have done, do what you like with me"—I then toot him up in the passage, left him in charge of a constable, and sent for Mr. Greenaway—I asked in his presence, "Which is the constable that heard this man confess that he set this house on fire?" the prisoner immediately said, "I have wilfully set the house on fire, and would have done' it last Sunday night but Mr. Green-way did not leave home in time"—that was in the presence of the fireman and many persons—the prisoner was then taken to the station, and when there I reminded him of what he had said in the cellar, about the escape of gas and the writing desk, the prisoner said, "That is all false, what I have said since is true, that I have set the house on fire"—I did not at any time ask him his motive; some person in the crowd asked him his motive for doing it, and he replied, "I did it because my master was in difficulties about two loans, one for 35l." and I believe the other was 70l. or 74l.—he then appeared excited and confused—he was perfectly sober—no inducement was held out to him to make that statement, to my knowledge.
GEORGE FOGO . I am a fireman of the district fire brigade, living at St. Mary Axe—on the evening of 16th October, a little before 11 o'clock, I went down with an engine to Limehouse-causeway—I found No. 1 engine of the London Fire Establishment at work—I saw three, if not four, distinct fires in the house—there was no connexion between the fires—they were on two different floors—one was in the middle cellar in the basement, and one in a passage quite distinct from the cellar; the other was under the stairs leading from the passage up to the first floor—the side of the stairs; was burnt within a few feet of that; immediately over the stairs there: was a cupboard with a quantity of loose wood in it, and the outside of the door was scorched—the prisoner came in some time after I was there—I asked him if he knew the cause of the fire? he told me he did not—I said, it appeared very strange; and I asked him to go below to show me what he knew of the place—when we took him below he looked very wild, and said he smelt something—he then felt along the beam, and there was a small pipe burnt; he said he thought it was the gas—I went out to give orders, and then went in again—I saw the prisoner again—I heard him say he had done it wilfully—a person asked him what motive he had; he said it was in consequence of his master being responsible for two loans, one for 70l. and the other for 35l.; and rather than let his master's property be taken away by others, he would sooner see it burnt—I did not hear him say anything about the previous Sunday.
The prisoner's Statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"This is what I have to say—I bear no ill-will towards my master, or mistress, they have been exceedingly kind to me—I certainly committed the act for which I now stand before you; the reason of it, was this, my master became answerable for two loans which he had to pay; I could scarcely rest night and day, because the thought often came into my mind that his property would be taken; so rather than see it taken, I would rather see it burnt—I did it of my own mind.
GUILTY .— Judgment respited.
FOURTH COURT.—Friday, October 28th, 1859.
PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart. M.P. Ald; Mr. Ald. GABRIEL, and MR. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Second Jury.
MR. MCDONALD conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JAMES . I am a bootmaker and clothier, and reside at South-gate, near Edmonton—I have a shop there—on 24th August last, at half-past 10 o'clock at night, I saw that it was safe and secure—in consequence of information which I received, I went to the shop the next morning at 5 o'clock—I saw some trousers strewed about outside the door, which was broken open, and there was a vest lying in the next garden—I went into the shop and found that the clothes had been pulled off the shelves, and two drawers were open; not broken open, because they were not locked—I then sent for a policeman and the sergeant came there—I missed from the shop three pairs of boots which I have since seen—I missed plenty other boots, but I could not swear to them because Mrs. James has a good deal to do with them—I think I missed altogether about 113 pairs—I have since seen three pairs which I have identified—I cannot identify the waistcoat and trowsers.
COURT Q. Was this a building by itself? A. Yes; I used it as a shop, not as a dwelling-house—I do not sleep there—I locked it up—it is separate from any other building.
SARAH JAMES . I am the wife of the last witness—I got up early on the morning of 25th August, and went into this shop—I had seen it safe and secure on the previous night—when I went there in the morning I found two drawers of ladies' boots and shoes, emptied all but one pair—as near as I could tell, about a dozen pail's of corduroy trowsers were gone and a tweed jacket; those (produced) are the things—I had seen them on the previous night—all the stock in the shop was safe when I went away—I always shut up the shop myself.
Jones. There is a waistcoat there that is not her's. Witness. No, I do Not identify this waistcoat or this cap.
JOHN ABERT . I live at Palmer's Green, Southgate, and am a bootmaker—I work for Mr. James—I know this pair of water-tight boots by a cut with a knife, inside them, and a letter A—I made them for Mr. James—they belong to him.
JAMES ERNEST ABBOTT . I reside at 112, Crown-street, Brunswick-square, and am assistant to Mr. Trundle, a pawnbroker—on 26th August, this pair of Wellington boots (produced) was pledged at our place by the prisoner Riordan—I lent 5s. on them—he gave the name of John Smith.
ALFRED HENRY SMITH . I am assistant to Mr. Need, a pawnbroker of Judd-street, Brunswick-square—on 26th August last, this waistcoat (produced) was pledged at our place by Riordan.—1s. 6d. was lent on it—he gave the name of Ryder.
JOHN STRACE (Policeman, W 39). I was sent for on 25th August last by the prosecutor—I saw the prosecutor's shop when it was in the confusion from the robbery—from information I received at the prosecutor's I went
on the 29th to Edmonton police-station, and found Jones in custody—I fitted a pair of boots on him which the prosecutor gave me on the 25th, at his shop; they fitted him.
JOHN CHOUGH (Police-sergeant, E 5). On Sunday, 28th August last, between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I saw Jones in Brighton-street, near Brunswick-square, carrying a large bundle on his back—I watched him into 8, North-place, a court which leads out of Brighton-street—in a quarter of an hour I got the assistance of two constables in uniform—I was in plain clothes—I went into the first-floor back room of that house, and saw the prisoner Jones sitting down in a chair, a bundle lying by his side—there were seven or eight other persons, male and female, in the room—I did not speak to anybody in particular—I said, "Whose bundle is this?" Jones said, "Mine"—I asked him what it contained; he said his wearing apparel—I asked him what they consisted of, meaning the articles it contained; he said, "A pair of trowsers and a pair of boots"—I opened the bundle to see what was in it—it contained three pairs of trousers, two tweed jackets, a pair of boots, two caps, and a vest—I asked him how he came by them—he said he bought them in Lincolnshire—I said, "When?" he said, "Last week "—I told him that I roust take him into custody, for I believed it to be the produce of a robbery committed at Southgate—he said that it was not—I took him to the station—this was in the afternoon of Sunday, 28th August—I saw the two prisoners together on the 26th, near the door of 8, North-place, and again on Saturday, the 27th, at the same place—I took Riordan into custody on 9th September in Bill-row, Somer's-town, between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I told him that I wanted him for being concerned, with a man in custody, for a robbery at Southgate—he said, "Well, I heard you wanted me"—I found these boots (produced) on Jones's feet.
Jones. Q. Did you not tell me afterwards that my old boots were sold for a shilling? A. On the way to the station you said that your boots were sold for a shilling; a woman told me there was a very old pair of boots left that were sold for a shilling—I never saw them—I did not leave the boots you had on, at the lodging.
Jones. She said that the waistcoat was not hers when she first saw it. Witness. I did say so to another one; but this one I know, and am quite sure of—I did not afterwards say that the one which I did not know at first, was mine.
Riordan's Defence. On the 26th or 27th August I was coming from my mother's, and a man stopped me, and asked if I would pawn these boots for him. I said I had no time, as I was going to work; he said, "I don't mind
giving you sixpence;" I said, "Very well"—he said it did not matter what name it was. Afterwards we went into a public-house and had some beer, and then I went to my work.
Jones put in a written defence, stating that he was never at Southgate in his life; and that the articles found on him he purchased at a hawker's sale.
GUILTY on the Second Count.
The prisoners were further charged with having been before convicted.
THOMAS CRANE (Policeman, T 166). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, March, 1856; Thomas Pittum, convicted of burglary. Confined One Year")—that refers to the prisoner Jones—I was present at the conviction.
JOHN CHOUGH (Police-sergeant). I produce a certificate (Read: "Clerken-well Police Court, May, 1859; Daniel Riordan convicted of larceny. Confined Two Months")—I heard that read—it refers to Daniel Riordan—I was present at the conviction—I had him in custody.
JONES—GUILTY.**†— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
RIORDAN—GUILTY.*— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months, and to enter into recognisances for Two Years.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES THURSTON . I am a boot maker, living at Stratford. On the morning of 4th October, between 9 and 10 o'clock, I was at Leytonstone at my shop—I saw a number of boots there—these are them (produced)—they were on a stand by the door, with a lot more—I did not see them again till 2 o'clock, when a policeman brought them to me—I gave no authority to any one to take them away.
COURT Q. Was the stand inside the shop? A. Yes, close to the door—I believe the door was open—I was not in the shop all the time—I was there from 9 till 10, and then went away—my daughter and son were there when I left at 10—they are not here.
MR. LANGFORD. Q. From the time you saw the boots safe in the morning, had you left the shop? A. Yes; I was at Stratford.
JOHN RAYNOR (Policeman, K 182). On the morning of 4th October I was in the Forest, Wanstead Flats, about half-past 10—I saw the prisoner with two boys—they had a basket carrying—I called to them to stop, and I saw the prisoner drop some boots—I took her into custody—I told her the charge, and she said she knew nothing of it—I took the boots to the shop of last witness.
Prisoner's Defence. I went to Woodford Wells that day early to pick peas; when I came back, which was about 7, I met the two boys, and walked with them—I swear I am innocent of the charge—I never had any boots in my hand.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES SMITH . I am a carpenter, and live at North Woolwich. On Tuesday afternoon, 13th September, I was at the Victoria tavern, Barton-road, between 4 and 5 o'clock—the prisoner was there at the time—there were a good many people in the room—I could not tell whether they were in his company—I had half a pint of beer there—I took out my purse to pay for it—there was a 5s. piece, 2 half-crowns, 1s., and a 6d. in my purse at that time—while I had it in my hand, it was knocked down on the front of the bar by the prisoner—he meddled and pushed me about, and picked up some money and gave it to me—I don't know how much he picked up—when the purse was knocked out of my hand the money fell out—he picked some of the money up, and ran away with it—I had a watch with me at the time this happened—it was in my watch-pocket—the prisoner cut the ribbon off, and took the watch away with him—it was tied round my neck and the watch in my pocket—I did not see him out it off—some one spoke to me about the watch—I gave information to the police—this is the watch (produced)—there was another person taken into custody, but he knew nothing about it.
JAMES SLATER . I live at 13, Rathbone-street, and am a boiler maker, and iron ship builder—I was in the Victoria Tavern on the day in question—there were a great many people there—I saw the prosecutor in front of the bar—I saw the prisoner pulling him about for two or three minutes, and after that he went away—after he had gone I noticed the prosecutor's watch-guard was broken—I did not see anything done to the prosecutor's purse—I was not there at that moment—the prosecutor was quite sober.
THOMAS VICTORY . I live at North Woolwich—I was with the prosecutor on the afternoon of 13th September, in the Victoria Tavern—I sat upon one side of the prosecutor, and the prisoner on the other—the prosecutor was going to treat me to a pint of beer, and pulled his purse out—I saw the prisoner knock it out of his hand, and the money fell on the floor—I picked up a 5s. piece, and gave it to the prosecutor—I saw the prisoner pick up some money, and then run away—he went out for about two minutes and then came in again, and sat down drinking some beer—I saw him afterwards rustling the prosecutor about—it began by the prisoner running his head into his bosom—I saw a knife in the prisoner's hand at the time—I had seen the prosecutor's watch before on that afternoon—I saw it just before this happened—the prosecutor afterwards left the shop—I did not know his watch was gone till he came back with a policeman—he had been to Poplar Station—he left the public-house immediately after the prisoner left.
Prisoner. Q. Did I not pick up the 5s. piece and give it to you, and you gave it to the prosecutor? A. No.
SARAH PERRY . I live in Victoria Dock-road, near the Victoria Tavern—the prisoner lodged with us—he was there when I went there—he lodged with us up to the 14th September. On the morning of the 14th a police-sergeant came to the house—the prisoner was there at the time—he was taken into custody—he was in the kitchen washing himself just before the sergeant came—he was taken to the station-house—in the evening of the same day I was scrubbing the kitchen, and I found this watch underneath the sink, between a piece of wood and the wall—we have several other lodgers.
public-house—I knew Mr. Wickley and Mr. Slater, and some of the others—I think they lodged at the coffee-house.
EDWARD GAMBLE (Police-sergeant, K 49). Upon Tuesday night, 13th September, about 8 o'clock, I received information from the prosecutor upon this charge, and the next morning I went to the coffee-shop kept by Mr. Whiskin—the prosecutor was with me—I spoke to Mr. Whiskin, and he said to the prisoner, "There is a policeman wants you"—he came out of the wash-house—I told him I wanted him for stealing a watch belonging to James Smith—the prosecutor said, "That is the man that stole my watch"—the prisoner said, "I know nothing at all about it"—I asked him if he was at the Victoria the night before—he said he was—I asked him if he saw Smith there—he said he did—upon the same evening I received this watch from Mr. Whiskin in the presence of the witness Perry.
GUILTY .**†— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY — Confined Nine Months.
MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS CARROLL . I am a stationer, and live in Artillery-place, Wool-wich—the prisoner lodged in my house about two months. On 19th September I was standing at my door, and saw her passing by in the street—I saw the top of this tap projecting out of her apron—I went and said, "You have my tap"—she said, "No, no"—I went and took the tap away from her, and said it was all nonsense—this is the tap—I afterwards took this pipe away from her—she told me, if I let her go in the house she would hand it to me, she did not want the mob to see her outside—I took her in, but when she was in she refused to do so, I had to force it from her—this is the tap and pipe—I had seen them safe on the Monday afternoon, about 20 minutes before 4 o'clock, and I saw her with them about a quarter past 4—the tap was fixed in the water-butt in the yard, which is on a stand—this pipe was fixed to the wall—the prisoner had no authority to take them away.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did she say that some old woman
had given them to her? A. Not to me; I believe she told the servant so—I heard that her husband was in the Royal Engineers—he is a pensioner now—I don't know that she has reared 14 children—I know there were two sons in the house.
SAMUEL TABER (Policeman, R 239). On Monday afternoon, 19th September, I took the prisoner in custody at the prosecutor's house—I told her he had given her in custody for stealing a brass tap and some pipe—she said she did not steal it, but had it given her by a person—I asked her what person—she said she could not tell me who it was, it was a stranger—she afterwards said she did not wish to get any one in trouble besides herself.
GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
MESSRS. METCALFE and PHILIPS conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY DYER (Thames Police-inspector). About half-past 11 o'clock on the night of 10th October I was on duty off Greenwich—3 constables were with me—we were alongside of Mr. Dyer's wharf, and saw a barge loaded with wool belonging to Mr. Edmunds, alongside of Mr. Allen's row, not 50 yards from my boat—near that barge loaded with wool, I saw another small barge, empty; it had some old chains and hammers in the cabin of it—it was close alongside the other barge—I saw the prisoner Giles come from the barge loaded with wool, with a bag of something on his shoulder, and he hove it down into the small barge, the barge John—I saw him throw it off his shoulder—I then saw Mallett pass along with a bag on his shoulder, and he threw it down about the same spot where Giles threw his—Giles then returned from the barge of wool with another bag of something on his shoulder, and he threw that down in the same place where he had thrown the other, and where Mallett had thrown his—it was moonlight, and very clear just before, but it became rather dark—they repeatedly passed backwards and forwards, but I could not see whether they had got anything, in consequence of its becoming rather dark—Giles was standing in the sheets of the barge, and he said to Mallett, "Have you got enough?"—what the reply was I could not hear, but I heard Giles say, "You had better have another sack full"—Mallett then passed to the Cosmopolite (the barge loaded with wool), and they let go the chains and went up the river—I went off to the John, and placed one constable on board of it—I then went after the Cosmopolite, and Haw the prisoners—I told Giles I should take him into custody for stealing a quantity of wool from that barge—Giles said, I have only just come on board; I have been on shore to get another hand; if any wool has been stolen, it must have been stolen before I came"—Mallett was then in the after part of the barge, and I directed a constable to go to him, and he was brought to me—I then directed Giles to take the barge into the Commercial Dock—he refused to do so; and I, with assistance, navigated the barge into the Commercial Dock-my self—I then went after the John, and on the 2 flaps were 2 staples broken in—each of the prisoners had handed me a key, but they would not fit the lock, and I thought about breaking the lock, but in moving the look about, each flap came undone—I there found 2 sacks of wool, and about as much as 2 sacks full loose—there was 364 lbs. in all.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. You were in one of the police-galleys? A. Yes; alongside of the wharf—I was in the same boat with the other
constables—there were three barges, the Cosmopolite, the John, and another—the John was nearest to me—the other was lying on the starboard quarter of the John.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was this near the Dreadnought? A. It was in Greenwich—the tide was running up—it was not running very rapidly—it was about an hour and a half after the flood—I don't know how the wind was—there was not much wind—the waves were very smooth—it was dark at the time they were walking backwards and forwards—there might have been a cloud over the moon—there were no indications of a coming storm—it was a very clear night, but it became foggy—I know Giles was the man that had the management of the barge—I know about the navigating of a barge—I know when a man expects a storm he goes on shore to fetch a man—I saw how the Cosmopolite was loaded—it was completely filled—it was a light load—it was not top-heavy—it was piled up—the John is a stationary barge there—I did not hear Mallett say that whatever was done, was done by Giles' direction—I have seen Mallett at work at the water-side—I don't know anything against him.
MR. PHILIPPS. Q. Was the barge so piled that there was not room for these two bags of wool? A. No; there was plenty of room for them, and another quantity besides—it was very light at the time I saw the wool put on board the John.
WILLIAM TISDELL (Thames police-constable, 8). I was with the last witness on 10th October—I saw the barge Cosmopolite first about half-past 10 o'clock lying alongside of the barge John, belonging to Mr. Allen—about half-past 11 o'clock I saw a man in his shirt sleeves take a sack and take it on board the John and throw it down, and then Mallett came and took one and threw it down—they took it four times, and then I heard Giles say, "Have you got enough?"—I could not hear any answer, but Giles said, "Have another sack full;" and after that they said, "Let go the chains and let it wash overboard"—they let go the chains and the barge went away up the river—I kept my eye on the Cosmopolite, and I put one constable on board the John—I and another constable rowed after the Cosmopolite—I never lost sight of it—she might be about 200 yards from the John—we got up to her—I went on board and saw the two prisoners—Mallet walked to the hind part of the barge—I said, "How far have you come?"—he said, "From the Victoria"—I said, "From the Victoria Dock?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Which way did you come?"—he said, "The outside wall"—I told him to go forward, and it came over a very thick fog; up to that time it had been very clear moonlight—I heard something said by the inspector about taking the barge to the Dock, but what answer was made I did not hear—he told me to take the rope and navigate her in—and afterwards we went down to the John and found the wool in the hold—there were two flaps which go on hinges—we got the flaps up and found the wool concealed—when I saw this transaction I might be fifty yards from the Cosmopolite—I don't think it was so much—I did not see any other barge moored aside the John besides the Cosmopolite—there was no other persons on board the Cosmopolite when we took the prisoners.
Cross-examined by MR. BEST. Q. This barge had got 200 yards from the John? A. Yes; she was about 50 yards from me—we rowed after her—I did not observe whether a cloud came over the moon while I was seeing these bags—I kept my eyes on the barges, and saw the two men carrying bags from one barge to the other—it did not get dark while I was doing
that—there was no cloud came so that I could not see what they were about.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you hear Mallet say that what he had done was under the direction of Giles? A. I don't remember it—he might have said it—he might say a good many things that I might not hear.
ALFRED EDWIN DAY (Thames police-constable, 46). I was on duty in the police-galley on the night of 10th October—I was about fifty yards from the barge John between 11 and 12 o'clock—I saw a barge called the Cosmopolite alongside of the barge John—I saw three men in a boat; two of the men went on board the Cosmopolite, and one man rowed away down the river—I saw the two men on board the Cosmopolite take the tarpaulin off—I then saw them pull down something, supposed to be wool, and put it into sacks, and I saw Giles bring the first sack and shoot it down in the barge John—I then saw Mallett bring a second sack and Giles brought a third, and that continued for some time—I heard Giles ask Mallett if he had got enough—Mallett was then on the barge John—I did not hear what was the reply, but I heard Giles say, "You had better have another bag full"—they let go the Cosmopolite, and she went up the river, astern of the Dreadnought and a head of the Steam Navigation Road—I went on board the John, and was left there, and the others went on after the Cosmopolite—there was no person on board the John but me—I did not take the wool out of the barge John—I saw it done by Inspector Dyer and another constable.
AUGUSTUS ROBERT EDMUNDS . I have one partner—we live at St. Dunstan's-hill, and are lighter men—I know nothing of the prisoner Mallett—on Tuesday night, 11th October, he had to go to the East India Dock with one of our barges called the Cosmopolite, to bring a cargo of wool and other goods—he had no authority to leave any wool) on the way from the East India Dock—I have examined this wool that is here—it is of the same description as that on board the Cosmopolite—it is worth about 1s. 6d. a lb—this quantity is worth about 25l.—Giles has been in our service about six months—he was in the Crimean war.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you know how the wool happened to be loaded? A. Of my own knowledge, I do not—I have heard that the loose wool was on the top, and I believe a tarpaulin covered it.
Witness for the Defence.
WILLIAM KEY . I am a waterman, and live at No. 2, Brown's-lane—on the night of 10th October, Giles came to me at Garden-stairs about a quarter before 11 or 11 o'clock—I knew him before, but I did not know him by name—Mallett was with him at the same time—I asked them if they wanted a boat—Giles said "Yes"—I asked where to go to—they said to Alien's-road—I took them and put them on board a barge which was loaded, but I don't know what with—I did not take notice whether it was high above the gunwale—it was a foggy night; I had to get my lantern and compass in case I should have to go over the water—the tide was running up rather strong—I left them on board and returned.
Cross-examined by MR. PHILIPPS Q. Was it a night when you might have expected a fog or a storm? A. I expected a fog—I said to them, "If you make haste and get up, you will get up before the fog comes."
Mallett received a good character.
GILES— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MALLET— GUILTY —Recommended to. mercy by the Jury on account of his character.— Confined Four Months.
MR. KEMP conducted the Prosecution.
SOPHIA KING . I am the wife of James King, a labourer in the Arsenal—on the evening of 20th September, I was in the shop of a pawnbroker at Woolwich, and while there I put my hand in my pocket and missed my purse—I observed the prisoner, she had stood by me in the shop—she had left previous to my missing my money—from what was said, I followed the prisoner and overtook her—I said to her, "You have taken my purse and money"—she used very bad language, and struck me in my face—I saw my purse in her hand—it contained 18s. 6d., and one halfpenny with a hole in it—this is the purse, and here is the halfpenny with the hole.
ELIZABETH COBB . My husband is a fisherman—on the evening of 20th September I was in High-street, Woolwich—I saw the prisoner and the prosecutrix fighting—I asked what was the matter, and the prosecutrix said the prisoner had robbed her of her purse—I saw it in her hand, and she said, "You are a bigger woman than I am, or I would smash you" and she threw the purse at her—I took it up, and I said, "There is no money in it "—I saw the money in the prisoner's hand—I took hold of her hand and endeavoured to open it.
WILLIAM CROUCH (Policeman, R 332). The prisoner was given into my charge—I took her to the station, and found in her hand 10s. 6d., 2 3/4 d. and one halfpenny with a hole in it—a half-crown was found by the female-searcher—this purse was given to me by the last witness.
Prisoner's Defence. I saw the purse and picked it up—all my clothes were torn off by this woman.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
LANGFROD conducted the Prosecution.
PATRICK CARROLL . I am a labourer at Woolwich—on the night of Saturday, 10th September, about half-past 11 o'clock, I went to a house in Martha's-place—Susan King was with me—I went into a room with her—when I had been in eight or nine minutes, the prisoner came and burst the door open—seeing what was done, I walked out of the room, and the prisoner hit me on the side of the head and knocked me down—I fell down outside the door, and the prisoner took my watch out of my pocket, and the guard from my neck—the watch has not been found—it was worth 2l. 15s. and the chain 15s.—Susan King and Elizabeth Nicholls were present—they hallooed out, and called the prisoner by name.
ELIZABETH NICHOLLS . I am single—on Saturday night, 10th September, I was in that house with the last witness—I live there—King and Carroll came there, and Doyle came and burst the door open—I was in the room, and Carroll and King went in the passage—I did not see what was done, but I heard Carroll say he had lost his watch—I had seen the chain on his neck when he came into the room—I am sure Doyle was in the passage, and I heard a scuffle.
COURT Q. Carroll came there with King? A. Yes; she and I were living together—as Carroll came out I went in. and I saw Doyle in the passage—I did not know Doyle before.
SUSAN KING . I am single—on the night of 10th September, about half-past 11 o'clock, I was in the house in Martha-place—the last witness and I both live in one room—Carroll was going out of the room, and Doyle
knocked him down in the passage, and he took Carroll's watch and chain, and ran away.
COURT Q. Did you know Doyle before? A. I had seen him several times before.
ALEXANDER REDDICK (Policeman, R 264). On Sunday morning, 11th September, I went to the Marine-barracks in company with Carroll and Nicholls—I got the sergeant of Marines to place Doyle with about 10 other Marines, and I got Carroll and Nicholls to identify him—I told him I took him on a charge of stealing a watch arid chain—he said, "There were others there as well as me"—he afterwards said he was very drunk at the time, and did not recollect what was done.
GUILTY — Confined Six Months.
LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM WALTER . I am a corporal in the Royal Engineers at Woolwich—I know the prisoner, he is a gunner in the Royal Artillery—on Friday morning, 7th October, I was asleep in my hut behind the hospital, in Mill-lane—I went to sleep about 11 o'clock on the night of the 6th, and I was awoke on Friday morning about half-past 2 o'clock by some person about my head, shaking the chain of my watch—I heard the chain rattle, and I turned and asked who was there, and a man said, "It is me"—I said "Who is 'me'"—I did not recognise the voice, but I got out of my bed and chased the man; I caught him—it was the prisoner—I gave him in charge of the corporal of the guard—I had lost sight of the prisoner for about 2 seconds—I have not the least doubt that he is the man who was at my head—he did not take my watch, he had it in his left hand—I know he is the man, because there was no way for him to get away.
EDWARD GUYTHER . I am a corporal in the Royal Engineers at Woolwich—I was the corporal on guard on Friday morning, 7th October between 2 and 3 o'clock I heard some one call, "Corporal of the guard;" and the prisoner was given into my charge; I took him to the guard-room—this purse and this handkerchief were found upon him—they were identified while the prisoner was present in the guard-room.
JAMES CLIFFORD . I am Quarter-master-sergeant in the Royal Artillery—on the morning of 7th October I went to the guard-room at the Sappers" huts and found the prisoner there in custody—I found on him this handkerchief—he said if I would accompany him to a certain place he would point out where some of the money had been deposited—there was a bed in that room—I asked the last witness if there was nothing else found on the prisoner; he said yes, a small purse, and these two purses were found under the guard-bed, and this small bag was taken up, which had 5l. 1s. 10d. in it—it was found in the place where he took me to, and I have it to the police-officer—it was found near a tree that they were removing—I marked the bag and money—I was in the guard-room with the prisoner, and I said I was very much grieved to see him, and I asked him if there were other persons in it, to give the names to me, and then he said if I would go to a particular place he would show me where the money was deposited.
COURT Q. Was it not where he saw some of the men put the money? A. Yes.
the night before a bag and a purse, and money in each—this is the bag—there was 1l. in silver in it, and 3 sovereigns and 2 half-sovereigns were in the purse—I missed the purse and 4 sovereigns and the bag of silver about 6 o'clock in the morning—I had not given any one leave to take the sovereigns or the silver.
JOHN JOSEPH MADDOCKS . I am a corporal in the Royal Engineers—on the morning of 7th October I was sleeping in No. 3 hut—I had, the night before, a white pocket-handkerchief in my box, by the side of my bed—this is it—this large purse is mine—I know it by a piece of paper inside it, in my own writing—this purse was in my box that night—I had seen the purse a day or two before, and the handkerchief I had put in about half-past 11 o'clock at night—I missed them about half-past 7 in the morning—I gave no one permission to take them.
JOHN SARJENT (Policeman, R 107). On the morning of 7th October I went to the guard-room and saw the prisoner there in custody about half-past 8 o'clock—I told him the charge was stealing a purse containing 3 sovereigns and 2 half-sovereigns, and a second purse containing 1l. in silver—the prisoner said he did not steal it, but he knew who did, but he should refuse to give the names as he would not get them in trouble—he said he should get his discharge from the regiment, as he had been before tried for theft, and had 42 days.
Prisoner. I never got none of the money.
GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. LANGFORD conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM STACEY . I live at Woolwich—on Wednesday morning, 12th October, I had come from a place beyond Tunbridge and Seven Oaks—I had been down there hopping, with my wife and four children—I had two sovereigns, a half-sovereign, and 25s.—I went into a public-house called the Crown and Masons' Arms, about 9 o'clock in the morning—I had been travelling all night—we all went in the tap-room, and sat down—I saw the two prisoners, there, and they asked me to give them some beer—I gave them some—I then went into the back-yard by myself—I was standing in a corner, and Reynolds came and took me round my neck—I was almost choking, and Gordon came and unbuttoned my breeches, and snatched my pocket away out of my breeches, and tore away a piece of my shirt with it—in that pocket that he forced away there were two sovereigns and a half, and 25s. in silver—Gordon said, "Choke him," but Reynolds did not do it—I became insensible, and when I came to, I found myself lying on the ground—I am certain that the two prisoners are the men, and I am certain that Reynolds had hold of my throat, and Gordon pulled away my pocket and money.
THOMAS MITCHELL I am waiter at the Ship and Half-moon at Woolwich—I remember about 10 o'clock on Wednesday-morning, 12th October, the two prisoners came into the public-house, and they called for a pot of beer—they gave me a sixpence—they took it out of a bag which they took out of their pocket—it was a bag like this (produced)—to the best of my knowledge and belief this is the same bag—it was a bag like a pocket—one of them paid me—our public-house is about half-a-mile from the Crown and Masons' Arms.
morning of the 12th October about 10 o'clock, I was standing at the Bell water-gates—I saw the two prisoners running in a direction from the Ship and Half-moon—they seemed to me to be running away from the piquet—in about five minutes I saw the prosecutor running—I followed Reynolds—I am sure the prisoners are the men—I went and picked out Reynolds in the guard-room.
THOMAS EDWARDS . I am landlord of the Crown and Masons' Arms—on the morning of 12th October the prosecutor came with his wife and children—I had seen the prisoners come in about 7 o'clock—they asked me to trust them a pot of porter—I said, "No, I would not trust my own father—if you are dry I will give you some"—this was about 7 o'clock—I saw them again when the prosecutor was there.
THOMAS WATSON (Policeman, R 124). On Wednesday-morning, 12th October, I was on duty in High-street, Woolwich—I was fetched to the Water gates—I there saw the prosecutor and Gordon—the prosecutor said he had been robbed of 3l. 15s. by Gordon and another—Gordon said he knew nothing of it—I asked Gordon what money he had—he said, "Between 1l. and 30s."—I found on him this pocket, a half-sovereign in gold, 12s. in silver, and 4d. in copper, and this piece of a shirt—on the following morning I took Reynolds—he was among a number of soldiers, and Sarten picked him out—I took him in custody—he said, "I am not guilty"—I found nothing on him.
WILLIAM STACEY (re-examined). This is the same piece of shirt that was torn from my shirt with the pocket—this is my pocket—I went to the barracks—I touched another man first, but then I saw Reynolds, and knew him.
GORDON— GUILTY .
REYNOLDS— GUILTY .
Four Year' Penal Serivtude.
The Quarter-master stated that the prisoners bore bad characters in, the Regiment, but there was no charge of felony against them.
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MR. LANGFORD for the Prosecution offered no evidence against
TIDY— NOT GUILTY .
ELIZA ANN FULLON . I am unmarried, and live at 43, Crescent-row, Plumstead—on the morning of Friday, 30th September, I was in the house of Mr. Robert Forster, at Plumstead—I had a gold watch there—I placed it on a china ornament, on a cheffonier, a few minutes before 11—it was worth six guineas—I never saw it again—I did not see the prisoners there.
EMMA CAROLINE THOMPSON . I live at 43, Crescent-row, Plumstead, and am the niece of last witness—on Friday-morning, 30th September last, I saw my aunt's gold watch on the cheffonier; the last time I saw it was about 10—I did not see it after that time—I first missed it between 10 and 11, when I was dusting the cheffonier—I looked for the watch afterwards, but never saw it again.
CATHERINE FORSTER . I am the wife of Robert Forster, of 43, Crescent-row, Plumstead—on a Friday in September last, Miss Fullom was visiting at my house—upon that morning, between 10 and 11, the two prisoners came to me—I told them I wanted my dust taken away; Tidy said he would take it—I was to give them 2d. or 3d. for removing the dust—it was in the back yard—the cheffonier was facing the parlour door in the front parlour—in order to go to the dust bin, they had to go past the parlour door
—they took two loads of dust—I did not keep an eye upon them while they took it—I do not know whether the door was open or shut—it struck 11 when I missed them—they never came to ask for the 2d. or 3d.—there was only Mrs. Thompson and the last witness in the house that morning—I did not see the watch at all.
MARINA THOMPSON I am a widow, and live at 43, Crescent-row—I lodge with Mrs. Forster—on the morning of 20th September, I saw the watch on the cheffonier—I put it on the ornament myself at about 9 o'clock in the morning; that was the last time I saw it—I have not seen it since—I saw the boys outside from a little before 10 to a little after 11—the boys did not take the whole of the dust away.
CATHERINE FORSTER (re-examined). The boys were not there more than two or three minutes; they only came through twice—the wind was blowing and the doors were opening and shutting—I heard them doing so—they carried the dust on their shoulders in a basket—I saw them open the back door once; I did not see them open the front door—I was in the kitchen, on the same floor; that is not next to the parlour—there is another room between—I don't know whether my lodgers were in the parlour or not.
JOHN TIDY (the prisoner). When I am at home, I live at Mr. Harris's, at Plumstead-common—I am in his service; he is a carter—I go round with the dust-cart for him—he pays me—on the morning of Friday, 30th September, I met Vine—he was not in the service of Mr. Harris—he asked me whether he should go along with me, and he did so—Mrs. Forster came to us, and asked us to take away the dust—we went and took away some of the dust; Vine helped me to move it—we took away three baskets full—the reason we did not take away the rest was, because it was all dirt—I did not go back and ask for the money—I saw Alfred Vine come out of the passage with the watch, and put it in his pocket—that was the passage leading into the street—the first place I saw him was coming from the front door—I asked him where he got the watch from, and he said that was his business, not mine—when he left me, I did not tell Mr. Harris; I did not tell any-body before I was taken into custody; I did not tell Mrs. Forster, because he did not tell me where the watch came from.
COURT Q. Did you not think it very odd that he should have a gold watch in his hand? A. Yes; I did not think he had taken it from the house; I thought he might have got it at home—I know his home; he lives at the top of the Prince's-road with his father; he is a landlord; he has got some houses—Vine never cleared dust out with me before.
LANGFORD. Q. How long have you been in the service of Mr. Harris? A. Two years—in the afternoon Vine asked me if any one had been after him—I said, "No"—that was about 2, up by the Lord Broomfield, near his house.
COURT Q. What did you understand when he asked you if any one had been after him? A. I thought he meant a policeman—this was on 30th September—the first time I said anything about this was on a Saturday, the day after the watch was gone—I spoke to constable Newell, after I was taken in custody.
JOHN NEWELL (Policeman, R 59). On Saturday, 1st October, I took Tidy into custody; I took him to the police-station—Vine was brought to the station by another constable—I asked Tidy, in Vine's presence, if the statement that he had made to me, respecting seeing the watch in the hands of Vine, was true—he said, "Yes;" it was—Vine said, "I never had a watch at all, and did not see one."
JAMES WILLIAM CROUCH (Policeman, R 118). On Saturday, 1st October, I took Vine into custody in Prince's-row—I asked if his name was Alfred Vine—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Were you with the boy Tidy yesterday collecting dust?"—he said, "No"—I said, "When have you seen the boy Tidy?"—he said, "Not for some time"—I asked him if he had seen him that week—he said, "No—I then said, "I shall take you in custody on suspicion of stealing a gold watch in Crescent-row, Plumstead-common—he said he saw nothing of a gold watch, neither had he been with Tidy—I then took him to the police-station at Woolwich, and brought him in the presence of Tidy—I asked Tidy if that was the boy that was with him yesterday collecting dust; he said he was—Vine made no reply to it—I also said, "Is this the boy that had the gold watch yesterday?" and he said, "Yes"—Vine made no reply to that—the watch has never been found.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "I have not seen the watch, and know nothing of it."
VINE— NOT GUILTY .
MR. LANGFORD Conducted the prosecution.
WILLIAM NOLAN . I am a gunner in the Royal Artillery at Woolwich—on Wednesday morning, 5th October, about 1 o'clock, I was in High-street, Woolwich—the prisoner came up to me—I had not known him before—he asked me if I would go to a cook-shop, and have something to eat, and asked me if I had any money about me; I said I was going home, and did not wish—he then felt my jacket pocket; I had on a shell jacket; he then put his hand in my trousers' pocket—I had in my pocket two half-crowns, one shilling, and 5d. or 6d. in copper-after he took his hand out, I felt that my money was gone—he ran away, and I ran after him, and shouted out, "Stop thief!"—he was stopped by a police-constable—I had not lost sight of him—I had been drinking—I have no doubt about this being the man.
Prisoner. Q. If I took the money out, why did you not stop me? A. You ran away—you thrust your hand down, and took it out.
COURT Q. Where had you been that afternoon? A. I had been into two public-houses—I was not on leave.
Prisoner. Q. You were drunk when you were let down by a picquet. A. No; I was not let down by a picquet—I did not say at the station that I would not press the charge if you would give me the money.
JOHN STRENGTH . I am Inspector of police at Woolwich—on Wednesday morning, 5th October, somewhere about 12 or 1 o'clock, I was at the corner of Hare-street, Woolwich—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw the prisoner running very rapidly towards me, pursued by the prosecutor—I placed myself in a position to stop him, but just as he got near me he saw me, and made an attempt to run down a side alley—he was running so. fast that he ran against the corner of the alley and I stopped him—the prosecutor immediately came, up and charged him with robbing him—I asked him what he had done, and he said he had taken some money out of his pocket—I then felt in the prisoner's hand, and in his right hand I found a halfpenny—the prisoner did not say anything at that time—we went to the station—on the road he said that the prosecutor wished him to go to a coffee-shop with him, and that he wished him to sell his clothes, and he would not do so—at the station the prisoner was searched, and in his pockets were found 1s. in silver, and 7d. in copper, which he said had been collected for him in a public-house by some persons who knew that he was
discharged from the army—the prosecutor did not say anything about pressing the charge—he said it was a great loss, and wished the money back—I went back and searched for the money, but did not find it.
NOT GUILTY .
977. PATRICK GRIFFIN (22), and JOHN KENNEDY (20), were indicted for a burglary in the dwelling-house of David Davis, and stealing therein, a watch, value 3l. and other articles, his property; to which they
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
Before Mr. Common Sergeant.
CHARLES VINDON (Policeman,). I produce a certificate (Read: "Central Criminal Court, February, 1859; George White, was convicted of unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.—Confined six months")—I was present at the trial—the prisoner is the man who was then charged by the name of George White.
HARRIET FIRTH . My husband keeps a cook-shop at Old Charlton during the fair—on Tuesday, October 18th, one of the fair days, the prisoner came and asked for three ounces of beef, which came to 4d.; he tendered half-a—crown in payment—I took it and gave him 2s. 2d. in change, and put the half-crown in my pocket—he went away for about ten minutes and then came back and asked for two saveloys—he had a jacket on when he first came, and the second time he was in his shirt sleeves—the saveloys were 2d.—he tendered half-a-crown in payment—I tried it, and said it was a bad one—I bit it with my teeth, and it bent—my husband was close by me at the time, and I handed it to him—I said, "Is it a good one?" and he said, "No, it is a very bad one"—the prisoner could hear that—we detained him—he asked me to go down to the circus booth with him—I told I could not go there—we inquired of the person at the booth about him, and they knew nothing about any one of that name—I said, "This is a bad half-crown, and I am afraid you gave me another"—the constable told me to turn out the money in my pocket—there was a bad half-crown in it, amongst other money—I gave the two half-crowns to the constable.
COURT Q. How long was the prisoner in the shop the first time? A. Only while I served him; about two or three minutes—it was just candle-light—I am certain he is the person—I knew him when he came in the second time, and I had a suspicion directly by his coming, and giving me two half-crowns—I had no suspicion before.
DANIEL FIRTH . I am the husband of the last witness—I remember my wife giving me, in the prisoner's presence, a half-crown to try—I tried it; it was bad—I fetched a constable, and my wife gave him the half-crown—I saw the prisoner come in the first and the second time; the first time he ordered three ounces of meat—I am certain he is the man who ordered the three ounces of meat.
RICHARD HATFIELD (Policeman, R 368). I was called into the prosecutor's shop on 18th October, and the prisoner was given into my custody—I received these two half-crowns—I searched the prisoner and found two penny pieces.
Prisoner's Defence. I am very sorry for it; it is a thing I never was
guilty of in my life. I went to the fair, and a man gave me this half-crown to go and get some saveloys—I asked Mrs. Firth to go hack with me to the circus at the fair, but she would give me into custody.
GUILTY .*— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and HUTTON conducted the Prosecution.
JOSIAH VINCENT . I am Inspector of the R division of police. I am on duty in Woolwich Dockyard—on 6th October last I went with Inspector Townsend to certain premises in the Belvidere-road, Lambeth—there is a wharf there, and a shed at the wharf—I went into the shed, and found a quantity of rope of different sizes—on seeing it, and being used to the Government rope, I believed part of it to be Government rope—we removed two or three hundredweight of rope from the top, but that was not Government rope—it was all in the shed—the Government rope was under the other—we did not remove the top rope then—after leaving that, I went to a barge lying at the Old Gunshot Wharf, taking in manure—I saw the bargeman, Gearing—I searched the barge in company with Townsend—upon going to the edge of the wharf I saw on the bounds of the barge a quantity of rope—I went on board, looked at it, and found it was Government rope; there was about 23 3/4 fathoms of it—we went back to the wharf with the man in charge of the barge, and I then went to the defendant's house, but did not see him there—I saw him in the course of that evening—I said, "I have come to see you respecting this rope affair;" he said, "Very well, I can very satisfactorily account for it"—I said, "I am very glad"—I have known him many years—he said, "I bought the rope from a person of the name of Clapham, who keeps the Rainham ferry-house, in Essex"—I said, "Your bargeman is locked up for having a quantity in his possession; but the Magistrate has taken a very lenient view of it, and allowed him to go on bail till 12 o'clock on Saturday, when I hope you will appear, as he stated to the Magistrate that it was supplied by you to him"—he said, "I will; I bought it of Clapham"—when I spoke to him about it, I mentioned that it was Government rope.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you at first say to him that you had come to him respecting some rope found in a shed at the wharf? A. I might have said so—he did attend at 12 o'clock before the Magistrate—I know there is a person keeping the ferry-house of the name of Clapham—I have seen him since.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. In consequence of what the defendant said, did you go to find this person, about this matter? A. I did.
ROBERT GEARING . I was in charge of the barge Francis at the time the rope was found on it—it belongs to Mr. Sinnott—I am employed by him—he supplied the rope for the stores of the barge about a month or five weeks before this occurred—he told me to go to the wharf where it is kept, and get it for the use of the barge—he told me what pieces to get—I believe the place where I went to get it, is in Mr. Sinnott's occupation—I have always been in the habit of going there for him for the last eight or nine years.
contains the worsted thread—it is all of a description which is known as Government rope—I have been eight years foreman of riggers and have been forty years in Her Majesty's service—there is no other rope made with the worsted mark except the Government rope—the worsted thread is not seen in all cases without untwisting the rope—this rope is not sold from the Government Yard in lengths of more than six feet, and a certificate is given to that effect—it is never sold at Dockyard sales without a certificate being given—a certificate is always given to the buyer.
Cross-examined. Q. The first thing you would do if you wanted to know it was Government rope, you would take a piece and unroll it? A. Yes; and then I should know it to be Government rope.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do you mean to say that you could not tell that it was Government rope unless you unrolled it? A. Oh, yes; I can swear to the rope by the yarn—you see at the end of all the pieces a blue, red, or yellow thread; not in all cases without unrolling it; not even when it is quite new—you cannot always see it.
The prisoner received a good character.— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT LOGAN . I am a boot and shoemaker at 46, Mulgrave-place, Wool-wich I supply gunners in the Royal Artillery with boots—when a gunner wants a pair of boots he brings a request, signed either by the captain of the company or the pay-sergeant—I knew James Thomas as pay-sergeant and staff-sergeant in the Artillery—I used to deliver boots to gunners on the production of a document signed by him—we take the measure always; but if they are in a hurry for the boots we supply them if we have a pair that will fit them; we always keep a stock ready on purpose—on 7th September the prisoner came to my shop with this order (read: "September 7th, 1859. Mr. Logan,—Please to make Gunner Andrews a pair of boots.—James Thomas, Staff-sergeant, R. A.")—that is the usual form in which they come to me—the prisoner was in uniform at the time; generally speaking, the order began "Please to make," sometimes, "Please to deliver"—"please to deliver" means, if you have them ready give them, but if not, not to make them—upon looking at the order I believed it to be a genuine one—I said to him, "I will take your measure;" he said he would have a pair at once, as he was very much in want of them—I then supplied him with a pair of the value of 22s., and he took the boots away with him—I had never seen him at my shop before with an order for boots—I know a person of the name of Cornelius Horgan, a gunner in the Royal Artillery—upon 19th September he came into my shop and gave me this order (produced)—upon the production of that order I delivered Horgan a pair of boots, and he took them away—I afterwards gave up the two orders to police-constable Newell.
Prisoner. Q. You gave me these boots when I produced the order? A. Yes.
CORNELIUS HORGAN . I am now a tailor in Woolwich—in September last, I was a gunner in the Artillery—I have served my time, and have a pension—on 19th Sept. I saw the prisoner near the barracks, we were both in uniform at the time, in fatigue dress—I was walking along and he met me, and asked me if I would buy a pair of boots—I said I did not mind; be then showed me an order—he swore it was genuine, and asked me to
go to Mr. Logan's to get the boots—I asked him why he did not go himself, and he said he had two black eyes and he was ashamed to go in for the boots—he had two black eyes at the time—upon that I took the order into Mr. Logan's, and got the boots; he was waiting outside the door for me, and I gave him the boots; I asked him what he was going to do with them—he said he knew what he was going to do with them—I asked him what he wanted for them—I think he said 11s. or 12s.—I had not the money, and he went away with the boots—this is the order that he gave me (Read: "Woolwich, September 19th, 1859—Mr. Logan. Please to make Gunner, No. 1 Barrack, Royal Artillery, a pair of boots. James Thomas.")—I did not know the prisoner's name when I got this order from him—I had never seen him before.
Prisoner. Q. How came Mr. Logan to give you these boots while I was waiting outside, to fit you with them? A. I do now know.
DANIEL JAMES . I am a boot and shoemaker at Woolwich—I make boots for gunners in the Royal Artillery—I supply them on the authority of the captain, and sometimes of the pay-sergeant—I knew James Thomas as pay-sergeant of the Artillery—if an order was produced to me, "Please to make a pair of boots for a gunner, "I should make them; but if they wanted them directly, we supply them with a ready made pair—if we make them we give them to the gunner—on 12th September, the prisoner came to my shop, he produced this order, (Read: "Woolwich, January 9th, 1859—Mr. James, Please to front a pair of boots for gunner, A Andrew's. J. Thomas, Staff sergeant, R. A.")—when he produced that order I gave him a pair of fronted boots, value 16s. 6d—there is an understanding between us to get up boots cheaper than new ones, when they bring an order of that kind, they sometimes bring a pair of boots with them—we then charge less—I knew the prisoner at that time—I knew his name was Andrews—I knew the company he belonged to—Sergeant Thomas was the pay-sergeant.
Prisoner. Q. You state that that was on the 19th January—how could I have brought it to you when I was at Sheerness? A. It is dated January, but came in September—I am positive you are the person.
JAMES THOMAS . I am a pay-sergeant in the Royal Artillery—the prisoner belongs to my company—he is No. 1 Battery, First Brigade—I was in the habit of drawing orders for gunners to receive boots—I used to give them memorandums the the first order of the 7th September; that order Is not in my handwriting—it resembles my handwriting a little; order No. 2 is not in my handwriting; and the one produced to Mr. James is not—I had not given the prisoner or any one else authority to draw orders in my name.
Prisoner. Q. Can you swear whether these are forged by me or not? A. I can't say.
JOHN NEWELL (Policeman, R 59). I apprehended the prisoner on 29th September at the Royal Artillery Hospital—I asked him if his name was Andrews; he said it was—I said he must consider himself in my custody for forging eleven orders—he said, "I suppose it is all one, I will go with you."
The prisoner put in a written defence, stating that he had not been in Logan's shop more than once, and that they had not been able to identify him as the person who got the boots.
GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant
GENT conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY GILL FREEMAN . I live at Camberwell—I was present at the marriage of my sister Catherine and the prisoner; it was some time in November 1852, at Newington Church—I have seen my sister within the last week; she is alive.
Cross-examined by MR. ORRIDGE. Q. When did you see her last? A. On Saturday week—she is ill—she was attending on a sister of mine—she is in a consumption.
HARRIET MOORE . I live at Woolwich; I am a widow—I know the prisoner; I went through the ceremony of marriage with him on 15th March, 1858, at St. John's church, Deptford—he never told me he was married—I knew him about 9 or 10 months before he married me—I left him on 23d of April last.
Cross-examined. Q. How long did you live with him, altogether? A. About 14 or 15 months—I had two children of my own—I did not know he was a married man when he married me—I know Mrs. Bailey, his daughter by his first wife—I had no conversation with her—I did not ask her about his wife—I know a man named Johnson—I never asked him if he knew that he was a married man—I had no conversation with him about his first wife—I and my mother had the first floor in the prisoner's house—I did not know he had been separated from his wife—I was 9 or 10 months in his house—I knew his first wife was dead—I knew his second wife was alive, just before I left him—I did not know it at the time I married him—his daughter by his first wife did not come backwards and forwards, I don't think she was ever there but two or three times; I only saw her once—my mother did not see her—his daughter was not coming backwards and forwards while he was paying his addresses—I did not speak to Mrs. Bailey and Mr. Johnson, and ask them if I should get into trouble by marrying him, as he had a wife—I was very ill—the prisoner supported me during that' time—I had to work—he is a plumber, painter, and glazier—I worked at dress-making—a subscription was got up for me, to put me in some little way of business, but I did not have the subscription at all.
MR. GENT. Q. You were to have been here last sessions? A. Yes; but I was not able to attend; I had a child near death.
COURT Q. Did you know that his first wife was dead? A. Yes; I learned that from him, and my mother too—I did not know that he had a second wife till after I had married him.
CHARLES HOPKINS (Policeman, P 40). I apprehended the prisoner; I told him the charge—he first said he was not the man—I said, "I am quite sure you are the man; "he said, "It is an unfortunate affair; she knew I was a married man; she quite persuaded me to marry her."
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.
The prisoner's daughter and another person stated that the prosecutrix, at the time she married the prisoner, was aware that his former wife was living.
No evidence.— NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
986. ELIZA SMITH (24), and DIANA CROUCH (26) , Feloniously applying to Elizabeth Kirk a large quantity of stupifying and overpowering matter, with intent to enable them to steal her goods; Second count for stealing a bonnet and other goods, value 5l. her property.
MR. MCDONALD conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH KIRK . I am the wife of John Kirk, an engineer; I live at Bermondsey—on 5th September, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon I went to a public-house in Bermondsey-street to get some refreshment—I saw the two prisoners there, and some conversation ensued between us—Smith said she had a very bad hand; that she had been to the Hospital, and been laid up for 6 weeks with her hand, and had no means of getting her livelihood—Crouch also complained of being ill—Smith offered to show me her hand, and she took the cloth off and showed it me—I asked them if they would take a glass of anything to drink—they both said they did not mind—they said they would take a little gin; I called for sixpenny worth, and it was drank, and we came out—Smith asked me to go to their place; I said, "No, I only live a minute or two's walk from here, and I will make you a cup of tea, such as I have"—they went home with me, and before I went in I purchased a haddock—when we got home I had a damson pudding in the cupboard, and I took the pudding out and asked them to eat that till the kettle boiled, if they were hungry—while they were eating the pudding Smith got up and told me my face was dirty, and offered to wipe it if I would allow her, which I did, and she rubbed my face on the left side and over my mouth and nose, and I remember nothing after that till I came to, about half-past 5 o'clock—when I went home with them, as near as I can tell, it was about a quarter-past 2 o'clock—when I came to myself I was lying on the floor—neither of the prisoners were there—there was nobody in my apartment—no one came in; I went down to my landlady in the kitchen—I felt wry ill—I examined my room—the things were all turned over; the cupboards were open, and all the things were taken away—I missed a barege dress, a pair of trousers of my husband's, the stuff for making a black alpaca dress, a bonnet, a black apron, a table-cloth, a scarf, and several other articles, and all my victuals that I had in my house—I gave information to the police directly—I afterwards met with the prisoners by Billingsgate steps over London-bridge on the Tuesday week afterwards, as I was taking some work home—Crouch was wearing my bonnet, and Smith had my collar on—I did not give any of my property to either of them—I did not give them authority to remove any of them—Crouch saw me, and ran down the steps, and Smith walked on and I followed her—she went several times, up and down as far as the Monument—she made a stop, and I said, "You may as well stop, for I shall give you in
charge"—she said, "What for?"—I said, "For robbing me"—she said she never saw me before—I said I should follow her, and one or two gentlemen told me to hold her—she began to swear, and said she would give me a b—y good hiding—I said I would follow her, and she said she would b—y nigh half kill me if I did, and she made her escape through the crowd—I got information afterwards—I have not been able to discover any of my things—Smith was taken afterwards, and Crouch was in the house, but I could not identify her at the time—I saw her in the morning with a bonnet—while I was in the public-house with them, we had sixpenny worth of gin; nothing more between us all—I had had half a pint of porter before.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You never knew Crouch before? A. No; I saw her afterwards, but could not identify her without a bonnet—she did not come up to me at Billingsgate, and say, "What is the matter?" I followed Smith—I did not say anything about the other woman—she ran away—I did not know the way down those steps then; I have been since to see where they led to—I followed Smith for some time—I was close to them—it was between 8 and 9 o'clock at night—I was coming from the City—I had been taking work home—the prisoners were not apprehended till after I got information where they lived; they both lived together—I went to the house with an officer—Smith and Crouch were both there—Smith came to the door—I went in the house and saw both of them—I identified Smith though she had no bonnet—I was unable to identify Crouch, and she was not given in custody till the next morning—I was taken to the house again, and Crouch was gone out—I saw her in Bermondsey-street, coming out of a public-house—she had a bonnet on, and then I identified her—the bonnet I lost was a black silk bonnet I had made myself—when Crouch was taken, she had a black bonnet on, but it was not mine; but she had my bonnet on when I saw her and Smith by the Billingsgate steps—when I saw the two prisoners at the public-house, I had never seen them before—we had sixpenny worth of gin; it was divided between us—we were a quarter of an hour there—I can't tell whether the barman or the master served us—it was a man—I can't tell whether there was more than one man behind the bar—there were no people there but us—I could not tell the name of the public-house—I could find it—I went with a policeman, and pointed it out—none of the property I lost has been discovered—the prisoners' lodging was searched—I am sure about the hour and the day—it was Monday, 5th September, at 2 o'clock, just after dinner.
MR. MCDONALD. Q. Have you any doubt that the prisoners are the two persons? A. I have no doubt whatever.
ELIZABETH HEWITT . I know Mrs. Kirk—I saw her on Monday, 5th September, about a quarter before 2 o'clock—the two prisoners were with her—Mrs. Kirk purchased a haddock—she gave Smith the money to pay for it—I saw the three together—I knew Crouch and Smith before—I have not seen them lately.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know much of them? A. Yes—I was on the opposite side of the way—Smith bought the haddock—I saw them go into Mrs. Kirk's house—I am sure of the day—there was no crowd—there were people passing—I did not know at that time that Smith and Crouch lived together, but I had known them before, and I had seen them together—they had bonnets on—I did not know where they lived—I knew Smith more than I knew Crouch—Smith's sister came to live at my house.
in my house—I saw her on that day, about 2 o'clock—she went into our house—the two prisoners were with her—in the course of the afternoon, I went upstairs—I saw Mrs. Kirk lying in the room with her head on a pillow—I did not awake her—I have no doubt that the prisoners are the persons who went in her place—I saw them at the Police-court—I am positive they are the persons.
Cross-examined. Q. What part were you in? A. I live in the kitchen—Mrs. Kirk is a lodger of mine—she occupied the front parlour—the kitchen is under ground, below the parlour—I saw them from the kitchen window—there are steps up to the door—I saw Mrs. Kirk, and the two prisoners came behind her—she opened the door and went in—that was all I saw of them then—the next time I saw them they were in custody at the Police-court—I had heard that Mrs. Kirk had said they were the two women—I knew they were the same.
CHRISTOPHER NEEDHAM (Policeman, M 60). I went with the prosecutrix to Crosby-row, and apprehended Smith—I apprehended Crouch the next morning—I told Smith the first evening in Crouch's presence, that she was charged with being concerned with another, in stealing a number of articles from Mrs. Kirk—she said, "I never was in Mrs. Kirk's house in my life, but I have seen her at the Hospital."
Cross-examined. Q. Did you go with the prosecutrix to the house where the two prisoners lived? A. Yes; I only took smith—I did not ask the prosecutrix if Crouch was the other—she said on the way to the station, she believed she was the other, but she could not swear to her—I did not ask her in the house if she was the woman—she did not say she was not—I did not put any question to her in going to the station—I believe there were other women in the house—there were none in the room where the prisoners were—I did not hear Ann Colby asked for—I did not hear somebody say that she had moved away, and was a long way off.
Witnesses for the Defence.
EMMA MIDDLETON . I live at No. 65, Trafford-place, Charlotte-street, Pimlico—I have known Crouch about three months—she has been in the habit of working for me as a washerwoman—on Monday, 5th September, she was washing for me—she came to my house about 9 o'clock in the morning, and remained till about 7 o'clock in the evening—I was at home the whole day, she could not have left; she never left the house—I am sure it was the 5th of September.
Cross-examined by MR. M'DONALD. Q. You knew her for three months? A. Yes; she has only washed for me twice; she has washed for my lodger—I have had other persons to wash for me since—she washed for me on two occasions—she came on 5th September, at 9 in the morning and left at 7 in the evening; I was backwards and forwards all day—my servant was washing with her—Crouch's sister came to me and said she had been taken up for a robbery that had been committed that day—I think her sister called on the Saturday week following—I am married, and reside at Pimlico—she was in my washhouse in my yard—I remember it was 5th September she was with me—her sister came to me, and I referred to the almanack and found it was 5th September—I knew the day of the week, and I referred to the almanack—that was the second time she had washed for me—she had washed for a lady that lodged with me—she had been washing at my house previous to my engaging her—she lives in the neighbourhood of Bermondsey.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Had you spoken to her frequently on the day she
was washing for you? A. Yes; I never locked a door when she was there—she passed my place repeatedly—I never missed anything.
JANE BLACKBURN . I live in Mrs. Midldleton's house—I know Crouch perfectly well—I saw her at Mrs. Middleton's on Monday, 5th September—she was there from 9 in the morning till 7 at night—she was not an hour out of my sight—I am sure it was on 5th September—on the following Monday, another person washed for Mrs. Middleton, and on the Monday following, her own servant washed for her, and on the Monday following I went voluntarily to the police-court and was examined as a witness—I heard that Crouch's sister had been to Mrs. Middleton—I have known Crouch, she has worked for me all the summer—she is strictly honest—I have left her in the whole of my place. Smith received a good character.
SMITH— GUILTY .— Three Years' Penal Servitude.
CROUCH.— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution.
HONORA TURNER . I am the wife of the prisoner Turner—we were married on 2d February, 1859—we lived a short time together, and I have been living separate from him—the last time he visited me was three months ago—on Sunday, 28th August, he left me and returned on Monday at 4 o'clock—Keefe was with him—when he came, he knocked; I opened the door and he came into my room after a little time; they both came in my room together—my husband asked me if I had been to the counting-house—I said, "No"—he said, I had been to the counting-house—I got in a passion with him—I did not strike him, I pushed him against the wall—he said no more to me—he went out and returned between 7 and 8 in the evening—he asked me to go for a pot of beer—I refused, but I fetched it at last in a quart pot—my husband and Keefe drank it; I drank out of the pot—they drank out of one tumbler—they were sitting on two chairs with their backs to the bed—I did not watch them all the time—I went for a candlestick and it had no candle in it, and I sent my niece for a candle—there was another child there, Mrs. Tane's little girl, and my husband gave her some money to go for some sweets—after that my husband and Keefe went away suddenly, without saying anything—after the children returned Mrs. Tane came in—there was then about one third part of a glass of beer in the tumbler—there was no beer in the pot—when Mrs. Tane came in, she drank some of that beer in the glass—I offered her a drink of beer and she drank some, and said it was very sweet—I took and drank what she left, and I felt as if I were losing my senses—I took and smoked a pipe full of tobacco, and I vomited—I afterwards went to a surgeon, Mr. Shewell—I then went to Mr. Tane's—I then returned home and found some white powder on the floor where Keefe had sat—I collected up what I could of it and took it to Mr. Shewell's—I afterwards gave it the policeman.
Turner. All I know is, I bought it and gave it to Keefe—what he did with it I don't know.
Keefe. I know nothing about the woman—I went to him about half-past 12 o'clock—I went out with him and went to his place and had some beer—I never knew there was anything wrong.
COURT Q. Did you know Keefe before? A. Yes; I never had any quarrel with him—there was no ill will between us that I know of—since I have been married to my husband I have known more of him—there were two chairs which my husband and Keefe sat on, and the powder I found was under the chair on which Keefe had sat—the chairs were quite close to one another—the powder was in front of the chair on which Keefe sat—Keefe sat there all the time—the glass was in front of where Keefe sat—it was nearer to Keefe of the two—though I was not watching, I could see them at the time I went for the candlestick—when I came back they were gone.
MARY TANE . I am the wife of Reuben Tane, a bricklayer—I am acquainted with Mrs. Turner—I went to her house on Monday evening the 29th August—she gave me some beer to drink; the glass was three parts full—I drank about three parts of the beer that was in the glass—the effect on me was I was very ill, it made me retch—the sickness continued about a quarter of an hour—it had an ill effect on me—I was near my confinement at the time—I went to a surgeon, he gave me something.
CHARLES HAYES . I am a surgeon at Kennington—these two women came to my place on the evening of 29th August—they told me they had been sick—I did not think it necessary to give them anything—this powder in this glass and in the paper, is sugar of lead—it is a poison if given in large quantities—the popular idea is that it is more poisonous than it is—it is difficult to say what quantity there was—I should think the portion was about two drachms—it would not dissolve very quickly—I cannot tell what the quantity was.
GEORGE PIKE (Policeman, L 95). I took both the prisoners, Keefe on 30th August, and Turner on the 31st—I told Keefe the charge was attempting to poison Honora Turner—he said, "Have you taken Turner? we must both be charged together; we were both concerned in it"—Turner said he bought the stuff, but did not know how it came in the glass—I explained the charge—he said he seat for a pot of beer.
The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follow:—"Turner says, All I know is, I bought it and the other one took it away from me—I can't tell what he did with it—Keefe says, Turner told me to go with him to see his wife—he sent for the beer."
COURT to CHARLES HAYES. Q. Some of this might be given without injury? A. Yes—we give it in diarrhoea and some other complaints—in some it may operate beneficially—it is always of a mischievous tendency; but of two evils we take the less."
MR. BARON BRAMWELL , after consulting with MR. JUSTICE WILLIAMS, as to the nature of this evidence held that in order to convict on this charge, it was not necessary that there should be a sufficient quantity of the poison administered to kill, if they were of opinion that that which was administered was in fact a poison.
TURNER— GUILTY .— Death Recorded.
KEEFE— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. DOYLE conducted the Prosecution.
ELLIS JOHN BULLOCK . I was fourteen years old last June—I was in the service of Mr. Barrett, a pawnbroker in St. Giles's—I received my wages 15s. on 29th September, and went to Woolwich to look for a place—I came up to London in the evening, and went to a coffee-shop in the London-road, kept by Mrs. Turner, I believe—the prisoner Flack and another man slept in the same room with me—we had separate beds—I got up about ten o'clock in the morning, counted my money, and there was 15s. and 5d. in copper—Flack saw me count it, but he pretended to be asleep at the time—after-wards when we were getting up he said, "You want your hair cut very badly"—I said, "I will not have it cut"—I afterwards left the coffee-shop with him—I said that I was going towards Baker-street—he said that he would show me the way if I went with him—I did so, and we met Brown—Flack said something to him, but I did not hear what—Brown went into a house and beckoned to Flack, who asked me to go in—I told him I would rather not—I was just on the door-step, and Flack pulled me in and shut the door—I went into a front room; the door leads into it—the four prisoners were there, and I believe they all assisted in throwing me down at the foot of the bedstead—some of them held my legs, one held my throat, and held his hand over my mouth, and the other searched my pockets—they had their hands over my eyes so that I could not see which, but one held my legs—they took from me my purse with 15s. in it, and 5d. in halfpence from my waistcoat pocket; all the money I had—Flack, Brown, and Dimmock then went out at the back door, and Bolton went on talking to me, and just as I got up, the front door opened and some others came in who asked me what was the matter—I did not tell them, because one of the women was with them, and she knew—I asked them to let me go—they said that they would in a few minutes, and in about five minutes they let me go out, and I went for a policeman and got one in five minutes, and we went back—I did not know the street or the house before, but when I went with the policeman I knew the room again by the furniture and by a picture hanging over the mantelpiece, of half of a man and half of a gull—I know Bolton because she is very much darker than the others, and her hair is so dark—she had a light spotted frock on—she had the same frock on when I went back—I am certain of Flack and of Brown also; I noticed that his trowsers were patched rather—I am also certain of Dimmock—the policeman took the two women at the house—I went with them to a beer-shop, saw some persons sitting there together, and pointed out Flack and Brown to the policeman.
Brown. Q. What do you know me by? A. By your trousers—I only just caught a glimpse of you—your coat appeared to have been torn by a nail on the left shoulder, as it is now.
Bolton. Q. When you came down stairs you did not say that I was the woman? A. I did not see you at the door, not when the policemen came—they did not ask me if you were the girl, and I did not say, "I do not know."
GEORGE BONSOR (Policeman, M 121). I was in Gabriel-street, and the boy came to me crying—he could not point out the house, and I called another constable, who, from what the boy stated, took us to No. 20, and when we got in the boy said, "This is the room; I know it by the bed and by the picture over the fireplace—Dimmock and Bolton were in the
room—I said, "This is a very bad job"—Dimmock said, "What job? we do not take boys in here"—I said, "Yes you do, for jobs like this"—I then told her the charge—she said that she knew nothing about it—the boy said, "Yes, that is the woman who held the knife over me"—she made no answer, though he said it loud enough for her to hear—it is a very small room—Bolton was behind the door; the boy pointed to her and said, "That is the other one that held my legs"—I remained in charge while the other constable searched the room—I took them to Tower-street station, went back and followed a person to a beer-shop—I went in with another constable, and found fourteen persons of the same dress and stamp as the prisoners, drinking and playing at dominoes in the tap-room—I said to the boy, "Is there any one here that you identify?"—he instantly pointed out Flack as the one who slept at the coffee-house with him—the constable said, "Is there any one else?"—he instantly pointed out Brown as another—Brown said, "What is this for?"—I told him the charge, and he said that he had been at home three hours; this was half-past 12 or 1 o'clock—I had mentioned No. 20 as the place he had been at—I took him to the station, and found on him 2s. 3d., a knife, and a pawnbroker's duplicate—the beer-shop is about 700 yards from Gabriel-street.
Flack. You pointed to me and said you wanted me for robbing this lad; I said "I will go with you, but I know nothing about it." Witness. No, I did not speak to you; the other constable charged you in my presence, and you said that you knew nothing about it.
Bolton. Q. Did not you see a third girl? A. Yes; several came in directly afterwards.
HENRY LAMING (Policeman, L 132). Bonsor and the boy came to me, and in consequence of what they said, I took them to 20, Gabriel-street—Dimmock and Bolton were in the room, and another came in afterwards—the women were taken to the station—I took Flack in the beer-shop, and told him the charge—he said that he knew nothing of it; he never saw the boy before in his life—I searched him, and found 3s. 4d. in silver, a halfpenny, some tobacco, and a pipe—I found this dross (produced) in the grate; the female prisoners were in the room at that time.
ELLIS JOHN BULLOCK (re-examined). My porte monnaie had brass all round with a clasp—part of this dross (not quite melted) looks like the rim of it—while this was being done I saw a knife in the hand of one of the females—I may have said to the policeman, "That is the woman who held the knife over me;" but I am not exactly sure which it was—it was held by one of the women with the blade downwards and the handle towards the ceiling—she stood about a yard from me, just at my feet—she was not stooping—I was lying flat on my back on the floor—she said that if I made a noise she would cut my b—y guts out; and Flack used some such language.
Flack. Q. Was there any one else sleeping there? A. I think there was one other—I did not see the boy with any money—you have slept there a great many times—I never knew you commit yourself in any way.
Flack's Defence. I do not recollect the boy sleeping there—there were two other persons sleeping there—I was not bound to pull off the clothes to see who they were—he may have made a mistake.
Brown's Defence. The boy merely stated to the police that he had never
seen me but in the house, and now he states that I beckoned to him in the street.
FLACK— GUILTY .
BROWN— GUILTY .
confined eighteen Months.
DIMMOCK— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
BOLTON— GUILTY .
She was further charged with having been before convicted.
Confined Eighteen Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CHARLES HADDON . I live at 81, Ground-street, Surrey, and am an iron tube manufacturer—I became acquainted with the prisoner in the early part of August, this year—in that month I had several interviews with him, to receive from him such information as he could collect, relative to a man of the name of Maher, who had swindled me (see page 832)—I went to the prisoner about it—in several interviews that I had with him, he constantly drew my attention to a pattern of a machine for splint cutting, and making pegs for the Admiralty—he said that it was a patent machine which gave him considerable advantages over anything of the kind, by which he could realize considerable profits, but that he wanted a little pecuniary aid to carry on his contracts—he said he had contracts with Bell and Black, in Bow-lane, City, and with the Admiralty, for the supply of pegs—he said that the patent was his, and that it was his invention, and that he had had an offer of 200l. for it, and could have disposed of it for that, but he preferred to keep it, as it got him considerable profit, and it was then his—he has had 86l. from me on different occasions—I advanced the sum of 16l. about the 9th of September—that was wanted oppressively for a bill at his bankers—it was in consequence of the representations he made to me about his contracts that I let him have the money.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Are you anything else besides an iron tube manufacturer? A. That is all I profess to be—that is what I am—I have never, for twenty years, been anything else—I was then carrying on business as a merchant in London—I never had anything to do with a Life Office—I did not know anything about the Rosemary Branch, until I went there to get information about John Maher—I know there is a society called the British Mutual Loan Society—I have a life insurance there—I have nothing to do with the Board there—I never suggested to the defendant to insure his life there for 300l.—I once suggested to him to borrow money there—I said, if he could satisfy me that I should run no risk I would have no objection to be one of his sureties—there were some collateral securities for money, advanced afterwards—he signed three bills, two of 50l., and one of 100l.—he has had 86l. out of that—I do not hold bills for 200l.—they were put into the hands of a Mr. Sullivan, a tradesman who advanced the money, not a lender of money—I did not lend the money—it was only advanced on my responsibility—he said that the service he had promised to render me in finding Maher was deserving of some remuneration, and he should feel obliged for such assistance as I could render him in his business—it was partly for his business that I lent him the 86l.—his bills for 200l. I put into
the hands of Mr. Sullivan—the prisoner was to have further advances—he was to have the money in the space of two years—the bills were merely collateral securities in order that I might be quite safe—the direct security for the money was the transfer of his property—he has signed over to me his patent, his machinery, and everything—he had 86l. out of the 200l. the 86l. includes the 10l. which I lent—it was all abandoned about his getting his money at that office—I had no occasion to try whether they would take me as a security—I am an agent for iron tube manufacturing—I sued the defendant for 46l. odd in the Lord Mayor's Court—the 16l. for which I have now indicted him was included in that; but there was a further sum advanced without my knowledge, making it more—the action is pending now in the Lord Mayor's Court for this 46l.
MR. ORRIDGE. Q. Have you had notice from the bank that there is no money of the defendant's there? A. I have.
MR. COOPER submitted that as this matter had been treated as a debt, and made the subject matter of an action, it could not also be made the foundation of a criminal charge. MR. ORRIDGE contended that the whole transaction was a fraudulent one on the part of the prisoner, and that the case should go to the Jury. MR. COMMON-SERJEANT was of opinion that the case ought not to proceed.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Robert Malcolm Kerr, Esq.
MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOHANNAH HERBERT . I keep a greengrocer's shop at Charlotte-terrace, New-cut, Lambeth—on Saturday night, September 24tb, about 12 o'clock, as near as possible, the prisoner came into my shop for 1lb. of potatoes at 1/2 d. per lb.—she offered me in payment a bad florin—I knew at the time that it was bad, but I did not pretend so to her—I said "Have you got another?" she said in a very quick off-hand manner, "If you don't like it you have no cause to take it; I have more money;" and she gave me another bad florin, as quick as possible—I tried both the florins; they were both bad—I said, "Have you got any more of these?" she said, "No; why, do you think they are bad?" I said, "You are perfectly aware that they are bad"—she said, "If you judge me for that, you are quite wrong; if they are bad they are as I received them from my husband, to-night"—I said, "I will give you into custody directly"—I sent immediately for a constable—before the constable came she turned out her pocket, and said that she had no more money—when the constable came she laid down a little purse, which contained 3 sixpences, 1 shilling, and 2 penny pieces—I gave the 2 florins to the constable—I never lost sight of her; she had the potatoes in her basket before she gave me the money.
WILLIAM WESTON (Policeman, L 65). On the night of 24th September, I was called into the shop of Mrs. Herbert—I took the prisoner into custody on the charge of uttering bad money—I received these 2 counterfeit florins from Mrs. Herbert, (produced)—while at Mrs. Herbert's shop I asked her if she had any more money—she handed me a small purse (produced) containing 3 sixpences, a shilling, and 2d. in coppers—that is all she gave me—as we went to the station she said that she was not aware that they were bad; that she was an unfortunate woman, and bad been walking the Strand the night before, and met with a gentleman, who gave her a 5s. piece; that she met with some more girls and went with them to Jessop's, a public-house in the Strand, where they had some gin; and 2 florins were
given her in change—I asked her where she lived; she said that she did not know her address, it was somewhere in Whitechapel—she had, besides her purse, a small basket with 2 pair of children's socks, a few potatoes, and a small bit of mutton; nothing else.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to Her Majesty's Mint—these two florins are both bad—they are so much knocked about by the witnesses that I cannot swear as to their being from the same mould.
Prisoner's Defence. I am an unfortunate girl, on the street, and have got two children to support. I took the money of a man; but I did not know, when I went into the witness's shop, that it was bad money. It is the first time I have been in custody—I said, "Is it bad?"and the witness said, "I don't know; have you another?" I said, "Yes;" she then said, "They are both bad;" and I turned out my pocket, and said, "Then all my money must be bad." I showed her all I had,
GUILTY .— Judgment respited.
MESSRS. CLERK Clerk and Poland conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM WATSON . I keep the Tailor's Arms public-house, Gravel-lane. On Thursday, 22d September, the prisoner came to my bar and asked for three-halfpenny-worth of gin—he had been there the week before—when he came in I recognised him—he had had a glass of half-and-half the week before, and he gave mo in payment what I supposed to be a shilling—I put it in the till—there were two half-crowns, and several sixpences in the till at the time; there were no other shillings—a man came in soon afterwards, and I gave him the shilling and a half-crown in change for something—about two minutes after he gave it to me back, and I found it was bad—I put it by itself—on the 22d September, when he came for the gin, he offered me a shilling in payment; ho then moved a step back—I took the shilling and laid it down under the counter, put my hand in the till to rattle the money—he came forward to take the change, and I grabbed hold of him till the policeman came—he took him into custody—took him to the station-house, and from thence before the Magistrate—when I took him, I said, "I have got you now, and you are the one who passed one on me the week before"—he begged me to let him go—I gave the constable the shilling that the prisoner had just given me, and the one I had taken the week before.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see any one come in with me? A. Some one followed a moment after you—there were some more persons in front of the bar at the same time; they did not make any communication to me before I took you—you had on a flannel jacket when you came in the first time; it was in the morning part that you came in, either on Tuesday or Wednesday.
WILLIAM BIBEY . I am a glass blower, and live at Ewer-street, Gravel-lane. On Thursday, 22d September, I was at Mr. Watson's—I saw him when he had hold of the prisoner—there were a good many people in the tap-room, and some person called out behind me, "Bung it"—on that I saw him take a piece of paper, and throw it into the tap-room—I walked in the tap-room, and a strange man picked it up—I saw the paper when it was open—there were 5 pieces in it—the man said it was bad money—threw one piece in the fire, and walked away with the other 4—I saw the piece that was thrown in the fire—it melted, and dropped on the hearth like lead—it was on the fire about 10 minutes—it ran through and dropped.
Prisoner. Q. What are you? A. A glass blower—I am employed at
Mr. Eagle's, Wharf-road—I have been there 24 yeas—I am Working there now—I was at Mr. Watson's having some porter on that night—I saw you come in—I was in the tap-room—I did not handle the shillings—I saw them in the man's hand—I cannot say that the shillings I saw the man put in the fire was not one he had about him previously—he had no time to change it—I saw him take it out of the paper, and throw it in the fire.
CLERK. Q. Was the man that picked up the money in a white slop? A. Yes.
THOMAS WARNER (Policeman, M 99). I took charge of the prisoner at Mr. Watson's on 22d September—the charge of uttering counterfeit coin was made in the hearing of the prisoner—he said nothing at all—Mr. Watson gave me these 2 counterfeit shillings (produced)—I searched the prisoner, and found on him 1 halfpenny, a latch key, and a black purse.
Prisoner. Q. Did I not say, going to the station, that I had never been in the house before? A. No; you gave me your right address—I searched the place, but found nothing with reference to bad money.
Witnesses for the Defence
SARAH SYKES . I can give an account where the prisoner was on Tuesday, 13th September—there was 7 of us in a party; we went to the Regent's Park Gardens; we all came home to my house at 7, Tailor's-road, St. John's-street-road—he never wore a flannel jacket, he was never near the place on that day; he was with me the whole day, from about 10 in the morning, till about 6 in the evening.
Cross-examined by MR. CLERK. Q. Who were the persons with you? A. Anna Donovan was one—her brother Patrick—he belongs to a man-of-war—there was Mary; I don't know her other name—there was a brother and two sisters besides—the other was Ellen, and her brother-in-law's name, was William—all of them are Donovans, except Mary, and she has a different name—she has been married these two years—we got back about 6 in the evening—my son lives with me—he has been with me all his lifetime—I was greatly surprised when I heard he was charged with uttering counterfeit coin—I swear I never heard of his being in charge before—I know we went on Tuesday, because it was my washing-day.
ANNA DONOVAN . I recollect going to the Regent's-park Gardens with John Sykes, and my brothers and sisters and friends—one of my brothers is a sailor—it was on Tuesday, a week previous to the prisoner being taken—we started in the morning, and came back between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening—the prisoner was with us all that day.
MR. CLERK. Q. Where do you live? A. No. 17, Keate-street, Spitalfields—that is about half an hour's walk from Tailor's-row—the prisoner saw me home on Tuesday—I stayed at his mother's till about half-past 10, and then he went home with me—I know it was on a Tuesday, because my brother was going to take us to the Gardens on the Monday, but he had to go down and look after a ship, so we put it off till Tuesday—he came up again on the Monday night.
SARAH SYKES (re-examined.) On Wednesday he went out for about an hour in the morning—came home, and then went down to Dalston to fetch Anna Donovan, and she sat at work with me till about half-past 10 or 11, and he then took her home.
MR. CLERK. Q. What time did you begin to wash on the Wednesday? A. Directly after breakfast—it takes me two days to finish it—it is a very busy day—I wash in my washhouse-the prisoner helps me—he carries home
things, and fetches them—he works at different places—at the docks and railway—I have got two rooms on the first floor—I was washing all Wednesday.
ANNA DONOVAN (re-examined). I work in the Queen's-road, Dalston—I the prisoner came down to me on Wednesday at quarter-past 7, and I remained at his mother's place till half-past 10, and he went home with me that night.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
EMMA TRIMBEY . I live with my father-in-law, John Trimbey, who keeps the Duke's Head, Putney—Thursday, 29th September, was the day of the rowing-match for the Championship of the Thames—about half-past 4 o'clock on that afternoon, some one, who I believe to be the prisoner, came to our house—I served him with a glass of stout—he gave me a bad shilling—I said "My good man, it is a bad shilling"—he gave me a good one; I gave him change, and he left—I believe Stirling, the police-constable, was in the house at this time, but I did not know it.
Prisoner. Q. Did I ask you for stout? A. I believe you did—I cannot swear to you—there were other persons in front of the bar, but not where you were—the two constables were by you—I was not taking other money then—I did not disfigure the shilling, or bend it—I knew it merely by the feel, but that was quite enough for me.
HENRY STIRLINGH (Policeman, V 289). On Thursday afternoon, 29th September, I was on duty at the Duke's Head, Putney, where the last witness lives with her father—I was in plain clothes—I saw the prisoner come in—he called for a glass of half-and-half and a pickwick—Mrs. Trimbey served him—I saw him put down a shilling, which she picked up, and directly said, "This is a bad one; if you come here again I will have you locked up"—he directly paid for it with a good shilling, and received his change out of it—I followed him out of the house—he went round to the back of the house, where there are places to sit down—he was not in this garden place two seconds—he merely walked in, turned round, and came out again—he then walked along the main road, till he came opposite Putney church—there was a crowd there—he stood there three or four minutes, looking about him, and then went up into the White Lion, kept by Mr. Kirby—I followed close behind him, and stood at the side of two gentlemen that were standing at the side of the bar—he called for a glass of half-and-half, and was served with it by Mrs. Kirby—he gave a shilling into her hand—she directly went to the till to change it—I collared the prisoner, and called out to Mrs. Kirby to look at the shilling, and see whether it was bad or not—she turned round, looked at it, and gave it into Mr. Kirby's hand—it was never out of my sight—he bent it, and gave it to me—I then took the prisoner in custody; took him into the tap-room, searched him, and found on him three sixpences and thirteen pence in copper—he said that he had taken it in the way of a bet—going to the station he said he had received five shillings from a man in London, and he supposed this must be one of them—he did not say anything about the railway-station to me—he did not say anything more that I can recollect.
Prisoner. Q. Did you state that you were in the Duke's Head? A. I was there before you came in—I followed you out—you asked for a glass of half-and-half and a pick wick. (At the prisoner's request the witness's deposition was here read.)
JOHN KIRBY . I keep the White Lion at Putney—on 29th September there was a race there—saw the prisoner at my house—Stirling, who was there in plain clothes, said to my wife, "Look at that shilling"—I was standing close to her—she said, "It is bad"—I said, "Give it to me"—he gave it to me—I looked at it, bent it, and gave it to the constable.
Prisoner. Q. Did you receive the money from me? A. No, from Mrs. Kirby—she gave it to me, not to the barmaid—the constable did not say, "What money did this man give?" I did not bring the money into the tap-room; I gave it to the constable at the bar; there were twenty people, I dare say, there at the time; there are two tills to my counter; I will swear Mrs. Kirby did not give the money to the barmaid—I was standing close to my wife, looking on; I was doing nothing at that moment—the shilling never went into the till—you did not ask for a glass of half and half and a pipe of tobacco—Mrs. Kirby drew the beer for you and received the money—you only had one glass.
Prisoner to HENRY STIRLING. Q. When I left the Duke's Head did I appear confused? A. Yes—you did not walk down the lane smoking—there is nearly a quarter of a mile between the Duke's Head and the White Lion—you gave your money to Mrs. Kirby—she gave it to Mr. Kirby after I called her attention to it—I did not observe anything else in the White Lion—you had not called for your glass of beer when I went in—you did not show any unwillingness to be searched by me—the money only went through two persons' hands before I received it two gentlemen were standing by your side drinking—there might have been ten or twelve persons in the front bar—the money was not being passed to the barmaid at the other end of the counter for her to give the change—the landlady got the change for herself when she wanted it.
Prisoners Defence. I changed a five-shilling piece in getting my ticket at the South-Western railway station—I won a bet with a man about the rowing: we than went to the Duke's Head' where I accepted an other bet; I received ten pence in copper, in change for what I had there; I afterwards went into the White Lion, and asked for a glass of half and half and a pipe—I gave a shilling for it, out of some silver which I had in my pocket—the policeman then came in and asked what money I had given, and they said a bad shilling—there were ten or twenty people in the bar being served—my shilling was given by Mrs. Kirby to the barmaid, who gave it to Mr. kirby—I had been drinking very freely; I might have uttered it, but if I did so, I had no intention of uttering a bad shilling. When the policeman asked the barmaid what money I had given, she said, "Which man do you mean?" and she turned over the money in her hand, and then one was taken out and given to Mr. Kirby, and then they swore that it was the one I gave them.
The prisoner received a good character.
HENRY STIRLING (re-examined). The prisoner was quite sober—he had not the least appearance of drink—I found half of a return ticket on him; it was given back to him at the station—here are some duplicates and an affidavit with quite a contrary name to what he has given.
Prisoner. I bought those duplicates of another person.
GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
MESSRS. CLERKM and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CLEFT . I manage a beer shop at 98, Cornwall Road, Lambeth—I remember the prisoner coming there about six weeks before he was taken up—he asked for a pint of half-and-half and half a screw of tobacco, which came to 3d.—served him, and he gave me a shilling—tried it with my teeth, broke it in half, and told him it was bad—he gave me a good one—I gave him one half of the broken shilling and kept the other half, and he left—he was rather saucy, and said I had not given him the change right out of the good shilling—had sent for a policeman, but he made off—he had another man with him—I have lost the other piece of the shilling—I am quite sure it was bad—I can swear to his being the man.
THOMAS BILLNGS . I am barman at the King John public-house, Bermondsey—on Friday, 23d September, about half-past nine at night, the prisoner came there and asked for a pint of half-and-half—I served him—he gave me in payment a counterfeit shilling, which I broke in my teeth and returned to him—I told him it was bad—he put his hand in his pocket and gave me another, asking if that was a bad one—I found it was a good one, and gave him ten pence change—from the way in which the first shilling broke I am quite sure it was bad.
ELIZABETH PARSONS . I am barmaid at the Royal George, Bermondsey, about two or three minutes' walk from the King John, in Abbey-street, Bermondsey—on the 23d of September, about 10 o'clock at night, the prisoner came to the Royal George and asked for half-a-pint of beer and half a screw of tobacco—he offered in payment a bad shilling—I thought it was bad, and I took it in to my master, and he came and spoke to the prisoner.
GEORGE LINFORD I am the landlord of the Royal George, Bermondsey—on 23d September the last witness gave me a bad shilling—the prisoner was then in front of my bar—I went and told him I believed he was aware that he had offered a bad shilling, and he said, "I am sorry for it; I did not know it"—he appeared very drunk when he said that, but he was not drunk when he came into the house—I saw him come in, and then went to my supper—I gave him in custody to Saville, with the shilling.
COURT Q. Did you see the man come into the house? A. I did; he was attempting to light his pipe, prior to asking for anything; but he did not appear tipsy then—when I spoke to him, he appeared tipsy, and attemped to go to the door; but I said, "No, I shall not allow you to go to the door till I get a constable."
COURT to ELIZABETH PARSONS. Q. In what state was the prisoner when he asked you for the beer? A. He appeared quite tipsy—he stood there lighting his pipe, but he did not seem to be able to light it—that was after he had given the shilling—he appeared tipsy when he first came in.
WILLIAM SAVILLE (Policeman, M 302). The prisoner was given into my custody by Mr. Linford—he appeared to be intoxicated, but I think he was shamming—he could walk very well as we went to the station-house—Mr. Linford gave me this counterfeit shilling (produced).
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
Messrs. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
together—Bryant called for half a quartern of gin and a glass of porter—he tendered a good sovereign in payment—I gave him change—they drank the gin and porter—afterwards Cable called for a screw of tobacco, which was a penny—I served him with it, and he tendered me a shilling—the other two were still there—I gave him the change—I threw the shilling outside the till, on the bar underneath, just over the till—there was no other money there—the prisoners did not leave immediately—I gave them lights for their pipes—I forgot to put the money in the till—as they were leaving, I picked up the shilling to put it the till and I found it was bad, before I put it in—I called William Martin, the pot man, and gave it to him, and he went after the prisoners—it had not been interfered with from the time they were lighting their pipes till they went away—I am quite sure it is the one that Cable gave me.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE (for Cable). Q. Were you moving about the shop after taking the shilling? A. No; I stood by the bar, talking to them—there was no one else in the bar—I had taken other money in the course of the morning—there are two tills—there was very little in this drawer—I do not think my back was turned to the till any of the time that I was talking to them—my eye was on the till all the time—I did not notice that the shilling was bad, at first.
Bryant. Q. How long were we in the house? A. It might be ten minutes or a quarter of an hour.
WILLIAM MARTIN . I am a pot man at the Queen's Arms—on Thursday evening, 15th Sept, between 5 and 6, I saw the prisoners there—I did not see Bryant give anything to last witness—when the prisoners left, she gave me a bad shilling, and from what she said to me, I went out after the prisoners—I found them about twenty yards from the house together—I followed them into Bedford-row, which is close by—I went up to them, and said, "You have given a bad shilling at the house you were just in"—they said they had not been there—I can't say who spoke—they then walked away, and I followed them—they went to the White Hart, in Gravel-lane—Bryant went in, and the other two remained outside, opposite—after Bryant came out, I went in and made a communication to the gentleman there—when I came out, I saw the prisoners walking toward Union-street, all three together—they waited at the top of Union-street for a minute or two, and then walked down Union-street, and went into the Music Hall, 90, Union-street—I went in when they came out—I waited in there a few minutes, made a communication to Mr. Gear, the landlord, and he and I came out together—we followed the prisoners to the George, in Gravel-lane—they were given into custody there—I gave the shilling that Miss Murphy gave me, to the constable, 130 M.
Cross-examined by MR. DICKIE. Q. These men walked quietly away? A.. They looked about very much—they did not run away.
WILLIAM WALTON . I am barman at the White Hart, in Gravel-lane—on Thursday, 15th September, the prisoner Bryant came to our house—he asked for a sovereign for a pound's worth of silver—I gave him a sovereign for a pound's worth of silver, and he went away—directly after that, Martin came in and made a statement to me.
ROBERT GEAR . I keep the Borough Music Hall public-house, in Union Street, Borough—on Thursday, 15th September, all three of the prisoners came to my house—I do not know whether they came in altogether—it was dusk; I was lighting the gas—they called for a pint of half-and-half—the barmaid, Sophia Cox, served them; she is not here, she is ill; she gave me
a sovereign to get change—the prisoners saw me get it from her—I asked her what I was to take, and she said, "A pint of half-and-half"—I was going to get change, and one of the prisoners said, "Never mind, governor, if you have not got change handy, here is a shilling, take it out of that;" and two of them put down a shilling each—I then said to the barmaid, "Who gave you this sovereign?" and she said, "This one," pointing to Bryant—I gave it him back—the barmaid took the shilling up that Cable put down, and put it in the till, and gave him ninepence-halfpenny change; the prisoners remained about five minutes after that, and then went out together—I after they had gone out, Martin came in and spoke to me—I went to the till; I found only one shilling there—I or my barmaid had not taken any money out of the till from the time the prisoners came in till Martin came in—I took the shilling out, bit it, and bent it, and found it was a bad one—I then marked it, and went with Martin to follow the three men; we saw them go into the George—I left Martin to watch the house while I went to fetch a policeman; I came back with one, and gave the three prisoners in charge—at that time I saw Spring put a shilling into his mouth—I called the attention of the policeman to it—I did not hear either of the other prisoners say anything to Spring; Bryant asked me to look at his money to see if any of it was had—the money was in his pocket; he pulled it out, and showed it to me; there was a sovereign, and silver, and copper, all mixed together—I gave the shilling that I took from the till to the constable 130M
Cross-examined by Mr. DICKIE. Q. You had nothing to do with the shilling before you took it out of the till? A. No.
Cross-examined by Mr. RIBTON (for Spring). Q. How long were they away before Martin came in? A. Half a minute, I should think—Miss Cox is ill in bed.
JOHNPOMEROY (Policeman, 130 M). On Thursday, 15th September, Mr. Gear spoke to me, and I went with him to the George, and found all three of the prisoners there—the witness Martin went in with us; Mr. Gear charged the men with passing a had shilling at his house, and gave them in my custody—I saw Spring with a shilling in his hand, and he put it into his mouth; I seized him by the throat, and felt the shilling in his throat—Cable seized me by the collar, and said, "Up with it," and pulled me away—I told Mr. Gear and Martin to keep the door; I then got assistance, and took them into custody—I searched Spring in the house, and found 12s. in silver and 5 1/2 d. in copper, good money—I searched Cable and gave him his money back; it was about 11s.—Bryant was not searched at the public house—Martin gave me a bad shilling and Mr. Gear also gave me a bad shilling; these are them (produced).
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON Q. Who was present when this swallowing took place? A. Mr. Gear and Martin—he said afterwards that it was a bit of tobacco that he had in his mouth—I mean to swear that I felt the shilling in his throat—he was not in such a state from my seizing his throat that he was hardly able to articulate—he had spoken before; he spoke about the tobacco—the landlord was there—I saw the shilling in his hand, saw him put it into his mouth, and felt it in his throat.
Bryant. Q. What did you say to the barmaid when you came in? A. I asked what money you had given, and she said you asked if the governor was at home, then you asked for change for a sovereign, and she said she had not got it.
at Gravel-lane—I look Cable into custody—while searching him I saw him put his hand up to his mouth—I said, "What are you doing"—he said, "Tobacco"—I opened his mouth; there was nothing in it—I after-wards saw a sovereign taken from his hand.
JAMES WATSON (Policeman, 251 M). I was called to the George on 15th September—I took Bryant to the station, searched him, and found on him 1s. 6d. in silver and 2d. in copper—before, I searched him he said something about a sovereign, and held it up, and then put it away out of sight—I searched him, but did not find the sovereign—I saw Cable put his hand to his mouth, and then put it in his trousers pocket—I caught hold of his hand, and put my hand into his pocket, and drew out a sovereign—this is it (produced).
Bryant, in his Defence, stated that on the evening in question, he met with the other prisoners, and was drinking with them, but. knew nothing of any bad money.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
HARRIET CUNDY . I am the wife of Joseph Cundy—I keep a milliner's shop at Denmark-hill, Camber well—on Tuesday, 11th October, between 8 and 9 in the evening the prisoner came to my shop for two stay-laces, and gave me a two-shilling piece—I had not any small change—I asked her if she had anything smaller, and she said "No"—I then went to my next-door neighbour, Miss Littlechild, and gave her the florin, and she gave me two shillings change—I returned and gave the prisoner her change, one shilling and sixpence and three pennyworth of halfpence—she then left—about two or three minutes after she had left, Miss Littlechild came and gave me the florin—I bent it in a tester—it bent; I found it was a bad one—I saw it given to the constable about twenty minutes afterwards by Miss Pomeroy—I marked it first.
Prisoner. Q. Have I not been to your shop before, and always given you good money. A. You came once before to my shop late on a Saturday night.
ANNLITTECHILD. I live with my aunt next door to Mrs. Cundy—on Tuesday evening, 11th October, she brought me a florin to change, and I gave her 2s. for it—while I was doing so, a man came in and asked if I sold gentlemen's goloshes—I said I did—he said, "I don't want any; I only want to know if you kept them"—I kept the florin in my hand—after the man had gone out, I tried it, and found it was bad—I took it back to Mrs. Cundy, and gave it to her.
MARIA CUNDY . I live with my daughter-in-law at Denmark-hill, Camberwell—on Tuesday night, October 11th, I saw the prisoner in my shop-after she had gone I was told that she had given a bad two-shilling piece—I afterwards saw the prisoner at Mr. Bridges' shop, a draper's, about a quarter of a mile from us—I went for a policeman—when I got to the station there was only one policeman there, and they could not send one—when I came back to Mr. Bridges' shop the prisoner was coming from the door—I told her she must go back with me; that she had given my daughter-in-law a bad two-shilling piece, and if she would give good money instead it would
be better for her—she went back very quietly to the shop with me, and soon after we got in the policeman came in—as I walked back with her to the shop I heard money fall on the ground, but what it was I could not tell—there was a man close by at the time, who said to the prisoner, "You have dropped something"—the prisoner then stooped down and seemed to take it up, but I could not see—the man was close to her when she stooped down, and he stooped down too—I could not see either of them pick anything up—when I took the prisoner to my daughter-in-law's shop I did not see anything more of the man.
LOUIS CASTELLION . I am in the service of Mr. Bridges, a draper, at Denmark-hill—on the 11th of this month the prisoner came there, about 9 in the evening, for some ribbon and a pair of stockings, which came to 1s. 1 1/2 d.—she gave me a two-shilling piece in payment—I tried it—it was a bad one—I gave it back to her and told her it was bad—she said her husband had given it to her—I asked her what he was—she said a shoe-maker, and he lived in St. George's-road—she did not pay for those things—she left the stockings and said she would take the ribbon with her—that came to 6 3/4 d.—she gave me a good shilling to pay for the ribbon, and I gave 5 1/4 d. in change.
ALFRED EDMONDS (Policeman, P 141). On the night of the 11th October I was sent for to Mrs. Cundy's shop—the prisoner was given into my custody, and I received at the same time this florin (produced) from Miss Pomeroy—the prisoner gave the ribbon and a key to the female searcher at the station—she gave me a purse containing two shillings, a four penny piece, and 1 1/4 d.—at the station she said, after she found out that the florin was bad, she threw it away, when she came out of Mr. Bridges', that she might not get into trouble with it—she gave me an address, 32, St. George's-road, Southwark—it was a false one—I went there, but could learn nothing whatever of her—she said she went to Camberwell to purchase the stay-laces, and for a walk, and she said something about a friend.
Prisoner's Defence. The young man at the draper's assured me that it was a bad one, and I said I would throw it away.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy.— Judgment Respited.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, NOVEMBER 28TH.
The following Prisoners, upon whom the Judgment of the Court was respited at the time of Trial, have since been sentenced as under:
Vol. xlix. Page Sentence