CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
FINNIS, MAYOR. EIGHTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than ones in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters—the figures after the name in the indictment denote the prisoner's age.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, June 15th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. RECORDER.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the First Jury.
(The witnesses did not appear,)
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. GIFFARD. Conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY WEBB . I am a detective officer. I watched Messrs. Cooper's premises on Saturday evening, 23rd May, with Scott, another officer; and about 7 o'clock saw the prisoner leaving the premises in Monument Yard—I followed him to Wood Street, Cheapside, and in crossing from there to Falcon Square, I saw him take this bag, done up in this handkerchief, from his pocket, and carry it in his hand—he went down Castle Street into Redcross Square; he joined a woman, whom I afterwards ascertained to be his wife, and they turned back up Redcross Square, and went into a public house—the prisoner came out in about two minutes, having in his hand this canvas
bag (produced), and we followed him to Mr. Spicer's, an oil and colour shop, No. 19, Aldersgate Street—when he got into the shop he remained a few minutes, then took one parcel out, and placed it on the counter—I went in and asked him what he had got; he said, "Coffee, tea, sugar, and currants"—I asked him where he brought them from, he said that he should not tell me; I said, "If you came honestly by them you would have no objection to tell me where you got them"—he said that he should not tell me, only that he bought them at a shop where they allowed him to have them at wholesale price—I told him it was not satisfactory, and asked him if he brought them from Mr. Cooper's—he said, "No, I did not bring them from Mr. Cooper's, Mr. Cooper will not sell us anything," or, "let us have anything"—I asked him if he had an invoice of the goods; he said, "No; I have got a piece of paper, an account of the goods," taking this piece of paper (produced) from his pocket—I asked Mr. Spicer, who had heard it all, if he had given him any order for these goods; he said that he did on Wednesday, and that the prisoner told him that he brought the goods from Mr. Cooper's; the prisoner heard that, but I do not think he said anything—I said that I should take him to the station house; he said, "There is nothing that Mr. Cooper can swear to"—Mr. Spicer gave me, in the prisoner's presence, seven ounces and a half of tea, saying that it was part of a pound of tea which he bought of the prisoner some time ago—when we got to the Smithfield station, I asked him what he had done with the parcel that he took from his pocket in Wood Street; he said that he had given it to his wife, and that it was a little candy—Scott afterwards brought the wife to the station, and produced this bag and handkerchief—I said, "That is the parcel that he took out of his pocket in Wood Street"—the prisoner said, "Yes, it is a little sugar candy that I brought from the warehouse"—he gave his address, No. 3, Charles Street, Hackney Road—I went there the same evening, and found six pounds and a half of tea in a bag, in a drawer in the front room, and in a different bag I found nutmegs, ginger, cocoa, and other articles; I told him at the station what we had brought from his house, and asked him to account for them—he said that it was tea and sugar which he had bought at Rose's, in Bishopsgate Street, at different times in small quantities, and took home, and shot them into a bag—I said, "Did this white paper bag come from Mr. Rose's?"—he said, "No, this is Mr. Cooper's bag, I brought it from the warehouse"—he said that he bought the cocoa some time ago when he was ill, and that he intended to send it into the country by the Great Western Railway, as he had been in the habit of doing at Christmas and Whitsuntide—I found on him a savings bank book; it was given up to him by order of the Magistrate—it contained entries amounting to 11l. 7s. 7d., as paid in by him in the space of sixteen months—I found 7s. 4d. on him.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was his wife at the house when you went there? A. Yes, she went back with us in a cab, she was not in custody—she was present when I found all these articles—when the prisoner said that the bag was brought from Cooper's I think he said, "It is all right, Thomas"—yes, I am certain he did—I hesitated, because I wanted to recollect what did take place; I am quite sure now, and Mr. Spicer will tell you the same I dare say—I had been watching about three months, and had seen him leave the warehouse every night, except Sundays, and have seen things, I had better not say what I saw—this was the first time I spoke to him—Scott had been watching with me off and on for three months—another man is in custody for these depredations; I took him—(Order read:"1lb. best
black tea, 3s. 8d.; 6 1/4 lbs. raw, 3d.; 2 lbs. currants, 1s. 4d.; 1 lb. coffee, 1s. 4d.; Spicer, May 20, 1857.")
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you weigh the goods when he took them out of his bag? A. Yes, they are all over weight; here is 4 lbs. 1 3/4 oz. of sugar, 2 lbs. 2 3/4 ozs. of currants, 1 lb. 1 3/4 oz. of coffee, and 1 lb. 1 1/4 oz. of tea—they were properly done up, and in separate parcels.
GEORGE SCOTT . I was watching with Webb on 3rd May, and followed the prisoner to the corner of Red Cross Square—I saw him give his wife something—after we got to Spicer's, I went back to the public house, and brought the wife; she brought the handkerchief, it contained 1 lb, 13 1/4 ozs. of sugar.
THOMAS SPICER . I am an oilman, of No. 19, Aldersgate Street. I have known the prisoner a great many years—he brought me goods from time to time, and informed me that he got them from Messrs. Cooper's, in Monument Yard—I saw him about a week before this happened; he asked me if I wanted anything, and I gave him the order which has been read.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. Nearly twenty years, and have always considered him a highly respectable man—I do not know his family, or where he lives, but I knew him at Lockman's, in Aldersgate Street, a wholesale oilman—I told the policeman, in the prisoner's hearing, on this day, that he had told me he had brought them from Mr. Cooper's, and the prisoner said, "You will find it quite right, Thomas"—that is my Christian name, by which he knew me, and I knew him by the name of James; I did not know his surname till this occurrence.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. What is your age? A. Twenty-five—I have Known him from five yean old, having been in the street all my life.
PELL HOWELL . I am assistant to Messrs. Rose, grocers, of No. 233, Shoreditch. I never saw the prisoner, to my knowledge, till I saw him before the Magistrate—I have been there two and a half years, and am always in the shop—this white bag is not Messrs. Rose's, nor do they do up their tea as these blue parcels are done up—this shop is not in Bishopsgate Street, but in Shoreditch—there are grocers, in Bishopsgate Street, but not named Rose.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite certain of that? A. I have not been there to see, but I never heard of one—the shop is in High Street, Shoreditch—Norton Folgate is between there and Bishopsgate Street—Mr. Rose has four assistants, and we can see all articles that are sold if in parcels like these.
Cross-examined. Q. How did you make the search? A. I walked down one side and up the other, and looked at all the names, and the nearest I could find was this one—I did not think of looking in a Directory.
THOMAS COOPER . I am a wholesale tea dealer and grocer, of No. 5, Monument Yard. The prisoner has been in my employment about three years, and was employed on the fruit and refined sugar floor, as a porter—he had access to goods of this description; the tea was not in his department, but he had access to it—there was similar sugar candy to this on his floor—our servants are occasionally permitted to purchase goods, and an entry of them is made in a book at the counter by one of the men—there
is no entry of these goods; the only entry I find to the prisoner for months is 7 lbs. of treacle—we use paper similar to this.
Cross-examined. Q. How many men have you in your employment? A. About thirty—I only speak to this bag as similar to what we use—other grocers use similar paper—this entry is dated 21st May, 1857—we are wholesale grocers, we only retail to our servants for their own use—he might want 7 lbs. of treacle for his own family, to use instead of sugar—this is the only book used for making entries of articles sold to the men—either of the young men can make the entries—the money is not stopped out of their wages; it is expected to be paid at the time, but it has deviated so far that it has not been paid till the man was paid his wages—I find no entry for four or five months before this one of the treacle—the men are only charged wholesale prices—treacle at 3d. per pound would be 4d. or more at a grocer's.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Has the practice of letting the account stand until the men were paid their wages been put a stop to? A. When I found it out, I stopped it—that was perhaps a month before—we do not keep our stock so as to discover any deficiency—we do not keep a stock book—we were sure that depredations had been carried on, and therefore employed the officers.
JOHN COOPER . I am in partnership with the last witness. On Thursday, May 22nd, I saw the prisoner take some sugar candy out of a box on the floor where he was working—no part of his duty led him to that box—I made a communication on seeing that.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there other workmen about? A. He was the only one—I said nothing to him about it; I did not give him an opportunity of explaining; I was aware that the officers were on the watch, and I communicated with them.
GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
NEW COURT.—Monday, June 15th, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir JOHN MUSGROVE., Bart., Ald.; and Mr. RECORDER.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
BREBELLI PLEADED GUILTY .
MOULON PLEADED GUILTY .
Confined Eighteen Months.
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, June 16th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHANNA HALL DEW . I am the wife of Charles Augustus Dew, a watch maker and jeweller, of No. 37, Maddox Street. On Monday, 11th May, about 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came into the shop, and asked me to show him a case of watches which was in the window—it was a small wooden case—I took it from the window, and put it on the counter; he took the case up, which being rather an unusual thing; my suspicions were excited, and I went to the side of the counter, which does not go to the window, took the case from his hand, and put it on the glass case on the counter—he took up a watch, and asked the price—I said, "Eight guineas"—there were three gold watches and three silver ones in the case—he replaced the watch, and took up another, inquired the price, and put it back again, and took up the case again, but I held it—he had been about ten minutes in the shop, when the shop door was opened by some person outside, who called out, "What, ho!" upon which the prisoner snatched the case out of my hand—I opened the little door, and struck his wrist to make him drop the case, and two watches sprang out of it, and were left on the floor—the prisoner rushed out of the shop, the door being open, taking the case and four watches, worth about 20l.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you see the other man? A. No—I had never seen the prisoner before—on the Saturday week following an officer brought him to the shop, he did not say for what purpose—I recognised him at once, and went to the police court the same day—my little son was not there when the officer brought the prisoner, but he came in directly afterwards.
FRANCIS JOHN DEW . I was twelve years old last Dec., and am the son of the last witness. I was in the shop on 11th May when the prisoner came in and asked Mamma to let him look at a case of watches; she took
the case from the window, and placed it on the counter—he was in the shop about ten minutes; he went out, taking the case and six watches, but Mamma struck his wrist, and made two of them drop—when I saw him again I knew him.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him brought back by the officer? A. I came in, and saw him as Papa called Mamma—no one told me that the man was there, I came in by myself.
GIDEON CROCKER . (Police sergeant, C 9). I apprehended the prisoner on 23rd May, having received a description of him from the prosecutrix two days after the robbery—he was at a public house at Five Dials, St. Giles's—I told him that he was charged with a robbery in Maddox Street; he said he had not been in Maddox Street for more than a week—I took him to the shop, and he was identified by both the witnesses.
MR. METCALFE. called
JAMES BUZZARD . I live at No. 4, Bishop's Head Court, Gray's Inn Lane. I am a brush maker—I know the prisoner; I saw him five weeks ago yesterday, and was in his company from about half past 6 till half past 10 o'clock in the evening—I was in two different public houses—one was the Coach and Horses, kept by Mr. Bowles, at the corner of Church Street, Soho—I met him there quite promiscuously about half past 6 o'clock, and knowing him when he was a barman at a licensed victualler's in New-port Market, I spoke to him; that would be about half past 6 o'clock—I am quite sure it was not 7 o'clock—I remained at that public house about an hour or an hour and a half—he remained with me every moment of the time—we went from there to a house close by Dean Street, or Compton Street; I do not know the sign—there are two public houses adjoining; I went to the largest of the two, a magnificent house—I returned to the other house, having to meet my wife there—I never left the prisoner at all; he was with me the whole time, until half past 10 o'clock—I left him outside Mr. Bowles's house—he was never out of my sight from half past 6 till half past 10 o'clock.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What are you? A. A brush maker—I do not keep a shop; I make brushes, and sell them at different oil shops, and to private customers, and in the street at times—I have known Mr. Crawford between three and four years—I have not known him all that time; I lost sight of him for some seventeen or eighteen months—I do not know where he was then, I did not inquire—I saw him about three weeks prior to the day in question—he had been absent then for some seventeen or eighteen months—I did not know where he was; I applied to a female that he was keeping company with, and she said that something unpleasant had occurred, which she would not tell me, and I did not inquire any further—my connection with him is no more than friendship—I kept a business at the corner of Porter Street; and he was barman at a public house at the other side, and I dealt there as a customer—he bought a coat of me; I kept a second hand shop there at that time, at No. 21, Porter Street, Soho—I was never a witness for him before—I did not see any watches in his possession about that time—I did not see him again after this night till the present moment—I recollect it was the 11th May, because it was the anniversary of my wedding day—my wife came and met me there in the evening—Mr. Crawford and I were talking all that time of the great aquatic race which was to take place for the championship of the Thames, and also the forthcoming races—my father and mother, and a gentleman named Roper, were with me—I do not think my father is
here, Mr. Roper is, and Mrs. Blizzard—she came there about half part 9 o'clock; she saw me in company with Mr. Crawford at that time—Mr. Roper was with me, and met Mr. Crawford with me at half past 6 o'clock, and me, and Mr. Roper, and Mr. Crawford, and my father were together from half past 6 till half past 10 o'clock, and never parted—at the first public house we had a pot of ale, between me, Mr. Roper, the prisoner, and my father; that was all we had there—we stayed there nearly an hour—we were interested in discussions—at the other house we had another pot of ale, or porter, between the four—I suppose we stayed there about the same time—we were talking about the same exciting things there, namely, the great race for the championship, and also the forthcoming Epsom races, which were coming on then, I believe—I am quite positive nothing was said about gold watches—we then returned, at my suggestion, of course, to keep my appointment with my wife—I had a quarter of a pork pie in the first public house—I do not know whether any one else had anything—this public house that we were at, is a quarter of a mile from Maddox Street, or under; we did not go into Maddox Street—I never measured the distance—I know Maddox Street—I do not know any house there—the first house was at the corner of Church Street—I do not live in the neighbourhood of Maddox Street—I kept a business in Porter Street on 11th May—when the prisoner bought a coat of me I kept a secondhand shop, and I carried on the brush making as well—I have been in the brush making business for fourteen yean; I learnt my trade of Mr. Morden, No. 52, King Street, Borough.
COURT. Q. When did you first hear of the prisoner being apprehended? A. The week before last—I did not hear of it till then—that was after he was committed for trial.
FRANCES BLIZZARD . I am the wife of the last witness, I have known the prisoner three years—on 11th May, between 9 and 10 o'clock, I saw him at the Coach and Horses, in Church Street, Soho—I had been out to meet my husband, and met him before I returned home.
JOHN ROPER . I live at No. 32 1/2, Gray's Inn Lane. I know the prisoner—on 11th May I saw him, at a few minutes after 6 o'clock, at Mr. Bowles's public house, the Coach and Horses, Church Street, Soho—Mr. Blizzard and his father were with me—we remained a couple of hours, and then went to a public house in Compton Street, Soho—we had to meet Mrs. Blizzard again at the public house; we waited about an hour, and from there went to Bowles's public house again to meet Mrs. Blizzard—I do not know the name of the public house in Compton Street, but it is the second door on the right; it is a large house, with two entrances in front—I saw Mrs. Blizzard again at the Coach and Horses—the prisoner was in my company the whole of the time; he was not out of my sight five minutes.
Cross-examined. Q. How long had you known him? A. Three or four months, not longer—I cannot inform you where he lived, or what business he carried on; I have heard Mr. Blizzard say that he was a barman some time ago—I did not know him in April, 1856—we had some beer and some gin at the Coach and Horses, and a biscuit or two—we stayed there something like two hours, from 6 till shortly after 8 o'clock—we stayed at the second public house till past 9 o'clock, and had some gin and beer, but nothing to eat—we then went back to the first public house—there had been a rowing match that day, and we were talking about it, but not all the time—we talked about several things at the first public house—I am a journeyman baker; I worked in Hatton Garden last; not five weeks ago—I was
not at work when this happened—I had been out of work since May 1st—it is very nearly three quarters of a mile to the nearest of the public houses we were at, and the second public house is not a minute's walk from the first—I do not know that we had any particular reason for going from one public house to the other—we did not take Maddox Street in our way; we never touched it—we had no conversation about watches—I do not know where the prisoner lives, or what business he is.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you go through Church Street, which is the next street to Compton Street? A. Yes; they are both in Soho, and Maddox Street is on the other side of Regent Street, to the left of Hanover Square.
COURT. Q. When did you hear of the prisoner being apprehended? A. About three weeks ago—Mr. Blizzard's son told me—I have known the prisoner in the neighbourhood of Soho, and various places; I became acquainted with him through Mr. Blizzard; I have seen him at his house as recently as three weeks ago—I have seen him there three or four times in the last three months.
JONATHAN BLIZZARD . I am the father of James Blizzard. I know very little of the prisoner—I have been in his company—my son knows him—I saw him on 11th May at the Coach and Horses, Church Street, Soho, about 6 o'clock—my son, and his wife, and this other person, were with me—I remained about two hours, and we went into Compton Street, and it was past 10 o'clock before we got back to Soho—Mrs. Blizzard was there when we first went, and she remained, because it was the anniversary of her wedding day, or something—she went with us to the other public house, in Compton Street; we all went together—I am quite sure of that; I was quite sober, and I know we were all together—I will not say whether Mrs. Blizzard was there the first part of the time—the prisoner was in my company during the whole time I have spoken of; he was never away.
MR. PAYNE. to JAMES BLIZZARD. Q. Are not you the constant associate of thieves? A. No—I never was in trouble in my life—I know a person named Kinghorne by seeing him, and I was in his company about two years ago, when I used to conduct a little bit of a concert room of an evening—I have only seen him twice—I do not know what he is, neither do I wish to—I do not know John Arundel.
He was further charged with having been before convicted.
WILLIAM GLASS . (Police sergeant, C 3). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; Edward Crawford, Convicted, May, 1856, of Larceny; Confined nine months")—I was present—the prisoner is the person—he tried to prove an alibi on that occasion also, and failed—I tried to find him after this robbery, but could not, at any of the places where he used to be—he is the constant associate of thieves.
GUILTY.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
677. SAMUEL WRIGHT (37) and MARY DONOVAN (20) , Stealing 600 sacks, and 440 yards of canvas, value 60l.; the goods of John Jamieson, their master: and SAMUEL THORN (31), and JAMES DOWNING , Feloniously receiving the same.
MESSRS. ROBINSON, RIBTON., and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN JAMIESON . I am a sail cloth factor and sack merchant, of No. 13, Bishopsgate Street Without. Wright was in my employ, and Thorn had been so—Mary Donovan was in the habit of making sacks for me, out of sacking supplied to her for that purpose—it was Wright's duty to give the
sacking out to the women, to enter it in a book before it want out, and after it came home to enter it again, and put the folio of the book on the wrapper of the sacks—he performed that duty accurately—on a Tuesday, about the beginning of May, he was called into the counting house—I accused him, and he denied it—my clerk said that he knew all about it, and it would be better for him to tell the truth.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How long has Wright been with you? A. About six months—person named Glynn worked at my establishment—he cut up the sacking, and assisted in giving it out sometimes—there is another young man in my employment now, named Waller; he was with me then.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. How long was Thorn in your employment? A. About three months; he was foreman.
MR. LEWIS. Q. Was the sacking entirely under the charge of Wright? A. Quite so—I have the books here, and have examined them for the purpose of seeing any deficiency, and have satisfied myself that these sacks are my property—it appears by the entries that sacking has been given out to be made up, and has not been returned.
GEORGE WATKIN . (City policeman, 660). On Tuesday night, 5th Mar, I went to Mr. Jamieson's, and saw Wright in the counting house—I told him that I must take him into custody, for stealing sacks and canvas—he said, "It is a bad job; I am guilty"—nothing had been said before that in my presence—Mr. Jamieson and his clerk were present.
COURT. to JOHN JAMIESON. Q. Was it after your clerk had told him that it would be better for him if he told the truth, that the policeman came in? A. Yes, perhaps ten minutes afterwards, and my clerk remained there; we were the only two present when the policeman came—I had been to the police station, and made a statement—I said nothing about giving him into custody after the statement of my clerk, and before the policeman came; I went over to the police station, but I did not tell him that I was going; or say anything to him on the subject of giving him into custody—it might be a quarter of an hour before the policeman came that my clerk said that after the prisoner made the statement, I said nothing—my clerk got out one fact after another—I think he said, "If I was in your position, I think I would tell the whole truth"—I went and saw the inspector, and asked him if I should give him into custody—I came back with a policeman.
WILLIAM PETERS . When Wright was called into the counting house where I and Mr. Jamieson were, I told Wright that it would be better for him to tell the truth—he made a statement to me, and I asked him several questions, which I put down on paper, and he answered them—he admitted something partly, and I said, "If I were you, I would tell the whole truth"—he then made a further communication—I remember Mr. Jamieson going out for an officer, but nothing passed after that—he made the whole statement in Mr. Jamieson's presence—nothing was said by me after that about the effect of his telling the truth—I was with him about ten minutes after Mr. Jamieson went out, and before the policeman came.
GEORGE WATKINS . re-examined. I took the prisoner to the station house, and then went to the Blossoms Inn, Norton Folgate, and took Donovan—I told her that I was an officer, and had come to take her into custody for stealing sacks and canvas—she said, "I know nothing about it"—I told her she must come with me to the station; she said, "I have taken sacks and canvas from Mr. Jamieson's warehouse on several occasions," and that Wright used to lift them on her head sometimes, and sometimes Glynn;
that they were kept in her place, and a man named Thorn used to come and look at them, and go away, and send a horse and cart or a truck in about an hour, to take them away—I asked her if Thorn ever gave her any money; she said that he had several times, and the last time he gave her 7s.—she said that there was about half a dozen rolls of canvas at different times—on Wednesday night, the 6th, I took Thorn into custody, he having been taken up and discharged the day before—he said that he had sold Downing a hundred or two of sacks, "It is a bad job; if I get out of this, I will never get into trouble again"—I asked him where he got them from, and he made no answer—a person named Bradley was then in custody, and in consequence of what he said I went to Mr. Carlton's, No. 12, Bermondsey New Road, a miller and chandler, where Downing works—I saw Downing, and asked him if he knew a man named Bradley; he said that he did; I asked him if he had sold Bradley any sacks; he said that he had, 400 or 500; I asked him where he got them from, he said, "From a man named Thorn;"—I asked him if he ever sold any canvas, and he said, "No"—I asked him if he had any invoice; he said, "No" as he thought the man was respectable—I asked him if he paid him every time he bought the sacks; he said, not every time, he paid him sometimes the next day, 'and sometimes the day after—I asked him how the sacks were brought; he said, "In a horse and cart"—I asked him if he kept any book—he said, "No"—I asked him where the sacks were kept, and he said in his parlour—he lives at No. 7, Holles Street, about eighty yards from his master's.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Was not what he said that he believed Downing or some one had had 100 or 200 sacks? A. No, it was that he had sold a hundred or two sacks to Downing—the conversation was in a cab, going to the station.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did Downing answer all the questions you put to him freely and voluntarily? A. Yes, and even went with me to Hackney, and took me to Thorne's—he went to two or three examinations, and was afterwards introduced to the dock by Mr. Lewis.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was it Mr. Lewis or the Lord Mayor? A. It was by the direction of Mr. Lewis.
ANTONY WILLSON MONGER . (City Policeman, 564). On 7th May I went with Mr. Jamieson to Downing's house; Downing accompanied us very nearly 200 yards to his house—we went in a cab—I saw him first at the Mansion House—he told me that he had four rolls of canvas and two sacks in his front parlour—I found them there; these are them (produced)—he told me then that there were some sacks at his master's house, Mr. Carter's—I went with Mr. Jamieson, and saw Mr. Carter; Downing did not go with us—I asked him where he got the sacks; he said that he bought them of a person named Thorn, who brought the canvas and sacks to his house in a cart, in company with another man—I asked him if he had got the receipts—he said that he never took receipts or gave them, he bought the sacks thinking of making a penny or twopence out of them—nothing was said to me about Bradley—these (produced) are the two sacks that the canvas was in; they each contained two rolls of canvas—these others are the sacks found at Carter's.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was this conversation at the Mansion House? A. Outside the Mansion House, and he said it again going along, and told me exactly the spot where I should find them; as soon as I knocked at the door, the wife came—all that he told me I found to be
correct—he said that Thorn had left the canvas at his house, and it might belong to Mr. Jamieson.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Did the conversation with Downing take place outside the Mansion House? A. Yes, after he had given his evidence—I was not in Court to hear whether anything was said by the Lord Mayor about giving him into custody.
JOSHUA TATTON . I am agent to Messrs. Ore, of Swan Street, Minories. At the latter end of April Mr. Jamieson came to my master's premises, and examined some sacks—I purchased 200 of this kind of a man named Bradley—there are two kinds, four bushel and five bushel—I gave 1s. 6d. for the five bushel, and 1s. 2d. for the four bushel; they would be 1s. 7d. and 1s. 10d. in the trade—I know the mark on them; it is a diamond G, which I know to be Mr. Jamieson's mark—I communicated that fact to Mr. Jamieson's clerk, and went with him and Watkins, an officer, to Downing's residence a few days afterwards—I asked him, "Did you ever buy sacks of Thorn?"—he said, "Yes"—he was then asked whether he bought any bran bags or canvas—he said, "No."
MR. LEWIS. Q. Did he say to what class of sacks his purchases had been limited? A. To five bushel and four bushel sacks, but no canvas and no eight bushel bran bags.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are these sacks new? A. Yes—all manufacturers make sacks at about the same price—they were not sold in London at that time at 1s. 4d. and 1s. 8d.; it depends upon the market—these is a variation in the value the same as in corn or sugar, but that has been the value for two or three months.
JOHN ORE . I am a sacking manufacturer, of Swan Street, Minories. I remember Bradley bringing me some canvas in two sacks in the beginning of May—I declined to purchase it—I examined it, saw it again at the Mansion House, and said that it was very like it—this is the same quality precisely, but I noticed no marks about it—these sacks appear to me to be the same.
CHARLES DENNY . I am a corn merchant, of No. 21, Hope Wharf, Black-friars. I know a person named Bradley, he came to me in April, and I bought 200 four bushel sacks of him at 13 1/2 d. cash; I had them all marked with my name—these two (produced), are two of them, which I gave up to the officer—this one has on it "60" in a diamond, and "A. 90."
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you in the habit of buying sacks? A. Yes, a great many—13 1/2 d. is a fair value—I would not buy any more at the price—I should consider 1s. 6d. or 1s. 5d. to be considerably over their value.
JOHN BRADLEY . I am a corn, flour, sack, and ship's store dealer, of No. 25, Oxford Street, Whitechapel. At the latter end of April, I sold Mr. Tatton 100 four bushel and 100 five bushel sacks, at 1s. 2d. and 1s. 5d.—I got them from Downing; I gave 13d. and 16d. for them—I sold them on my own account, not on commission—I sold Mr. Ore fifty or sixty of them—I also received some canvass from Downing; I sent it to Mr. Ore's, but he would not give me my price—I purchased different lots of sacks of Downing; I purchased some flour sacks, but not new ones—when I got the sacks from Donovan, I got them from his private house at Bermondsey New Road—I do not remember whether there was anybody present when they were sold, but there was when I paid him for them—I paid him partly in Mr. Carlton's shop, and partly at a public house; we went over and had a glass of ale on one occasion—I used to pay him when I purchased them—I did
Hot ask him how he obtained them—I knew the position he held at Mr. Carlton's—he had not told me what salary he received—I consider that he ought to receive about 30s. a week—I got all the sacks from the private house; I employed a man to fetch them, named Samuel Norman, who lives close to me—I have not employed him in all my jobs with Downing—part of the sacks were placed in Downing's back kitchen, and part in the front parlour—I went there with the man—I believe he occupies the whole house, it is a nice cottage—I sold some sacks to Denny, I bought them in the same way—I compute that I have purchased 500 or 600 sacks from Donovan; I consider that they are worth 14d. or 14 1/2 d., it varies according to the time.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. How long have you known Downing? A. About nineteen months; he has always born the character of an honest man—I have been in business a long time—the sack business is a ready money business, I very often pay without taking a receipt—Downing told me that I was not to sell the canvas under 25s.—the price I gave was fair and reasonable, leaving myself a small profit.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Having known Downing twelve months, how soon did you begin to have transactions with him? A. Not very soon after I knew him—I was introduced to him by a friend of mine, named Fogg, at a public house, but not for the purpose of buying sacks, only as he was a corn dealer—he was a salesman—I bought sacks of him a few weeks after I was introduced to him—I was in custody seven days.
COURT. Q. Did Mr. Downing, at the time he employed, you say that he had been asked to find a purchaser? A. Yes—he did not say who the person was, and I did not ask him.
SAMUEL NORMAN . I am a carman, of Raven Street, Mile End New Road. I know Downing's house; I have been there to fetch sacks, by Bradley's direction—the first time was about the latter part of April—I did not know Downing before I went to his house—I had seen Bradley once or twice before he hired me, and spoken to him, and I had done one job far him before—he hired a truck close to Downing's house.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was any money paid by Bradley to Downing? A. I saw him pay something, I do not know what it was—this was not done at night, it was 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Where was the money paid? A. At a public house—I had got the sacks outside the public house on a truck, and I went and had a drop of gin, and saw some money paid.
FREDERICK SCOTT . I am a gas fitter, and lodge at Blossom Place. I know Bradley—the prisoner Mary Donovan lives next door to me, and I have often seen Wright and Thorn go into her house; I have seen them go there the first thing in the morning—I saw them there about a week before they were given into custody—I have seen sacks loaded into a truck from Donovan's, but never watched to see them go away—I have seen them at the house at the time—I was not able to see what sort of sacks they were, I only took notice of so many bundles being put in, five or six bundles—they were the same kind as these—it was about 11 or 12 o'clock—I cannot swear that I have ever seen Bradley there—I have seen him here today.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Where does Donovan live? A. At No. 11, it is a six roomed house, and she has the first floor—I did not visit her, but I live next door, and my house is the same size—persons going in and out can see me—I have seen Donovan making sacks, working very hard the first thing in the morning, and the last thing at night—these people do not make sacks of their own in their over time—I am not a sack maker.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Did you know Thorn by the name of Thorn? A. No, I only knew what his name was when this charge was made—I will venture to swear that the man I saw was Thorn, I have been at the door when he has knocked of a morning, and has been going up and down the court with the female prisoner—I have seen sacks loaded in a truck, and have seen sacks go away in a truck—I do not know the name of the other party who was there, I cannot say that it was Bradley.
MR. RIBTON. Q. How often have you seen Thorn there? A. Three or four times a week—I have seen him and Wright there separately, but not together.
JANE RAYMENT . I am the wife of Henry Rayment, of No. 11, Blossom Place, Norton Folgate. Mary Donovan resided at our house—I have seen Wright and Thorn there frequently, at about half past 9 o'clock in the morning; they have gone into Donovan's room when she was there—I have seen Wright, Thorn, and Donovan all in the same room together—I have not seen Thorn take sacks out of the house, but I have seen him throw some down stairs in bundles—I cannot say how many, they were like these produced—a truck was waiting outside—I used to see Donovan bring sacking home on her head—she has sometimes, I think, gone for a second lot before she returned the first; some she took home, and some were taken from the house by conveyances.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Was this done openly? A. Yes, in the middle of the day—I used to take my own work home in the morning, between 10 and 12 or 11 and 1 o'clock—I do needlework for private families—she said when she took the room, that she worked for Mr. Jamieson; that was the reference she gave me—she used to work very hard—I received the first rent from her on 15th Jan.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. When did you know that this person's name was Thorn? A. Not till after—I only knew him from occasionally seeing him go to the house to see her.
MR. RIBSON. Q. How often, a dozen times? A. Yes—I saw him at the Mansion House—I had seen him at Donovan's house a few days before that—I fancy that it was about a fortnight before that I saw him throw sacks down stairs, but I can hardly recollect.
PATRICK BRYANT . I live at No. 2, Clement's Place, Sun Street, Bishopsgate, and work for Mr. Harris, a sack manufacturer. I have been in the habit of passing Mr. Jamieson's premises in the morning, at twenty minutes or half past 7 o'clock, and have seen Donovan there—I saw her there three or four mornings before I took any notice of it at all—she brought a bundle of sacks, ready made, away from the premises that was on Wednesday, 22nd April—I noticed her go home, but not as she ought to go; she turned round several times to see if anybody was watching her, so the following morning I watched her again—she did not bring a full turn of work out, but a turn of canvas on her head, and I wrote to Mr. Jamieson on the Friday week—I was in the trade, and knew that she had no business to bring sacks out—I saw Wright and Glynn go there about a quarter of an hour before I saw Donovan—Wright opened the warehouse, but he did not come out from the warehouse before I saw the woman.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How far were you off this woman when you saw these sacks? A. On the opposite side of the way—they were four-bushel sacks, doubled up, and I dare say there were about sixteen.
her duty to bring them home before she had more—she might bring them home at 11 o'clock and at 5—they were not brought in trucks—I never paid for any trucks in which sacking was brought by her—7 o'clock in the morning would be an irregular hour for her to take away sacking—she had no necessity to take away ready made sacks.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Would she be under Glynn? A. Under Wright—Glynn was subordinate to Wright; he was not the person to apportion her work, and tell her what to do; Wright was the responsible man—she has been in my employment about two years, and I did not suspect her.
STEPHEN CARLTON . I am a corn merchant, of Bermondsey. Downing was my shopman for six months—he had 25s. a week, and I allowed him a commission on what he sold, and his travelling expenses—I can hardly say what he would earn additionally, but from 2s. to 10s. on an average—he is married, and has six or seven children.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you took him did you ascertain that he bore an unexceptionable character? A. Yes—I knew that he was in the habit of dealing in bags, and I allowed him to do so—I have bought bags of him myself.
MR. RIBTON. Q. How soon was that after he came into your employment? A. I could not say to a week or two, but I believe I bought about forty or fifty in March—they were four-bushel new sacks; some were bran sacks—Mr. Jamieson found them on my premises—I believe these are them—I gave him 1s. each for them—I did not ask him where he got them—I do not know whether it is usual for masters to buy sacks of their servants—I have sent away into the country forty or fifty of the sacks that I bought of him, filled with barley—sacks cost a halfpenny extra with the name on them.
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
THOMAS MILLER . I live at No. 4, Tavistock Row, Covent Garden, and sleep in the back room first floor—my sitting room is in front—on 2nd June I went out, about a quarter past 5 o'clock in the morning, arid fastened the door—my son had gone out before me—I am quite positive I shut the door.
Prisoner. Q. Was I in the room when you went out? A. No.
HENRY MILLER . I am the son of the last witness. On 2nd June I went out, about a quarter before 5 o'clock in the morning—I saw my father after he came out—I borrowed the latch key of him, went back about a quarter past 5 o'clock, opened the door with the latch key, and I and my brother went in—I walked up stairs to get something, and saw my mother's bed room door open—I walked in, and saw a shadow in the next room—I walked in there, and saw the prisoner standing by the side of the drawers—I asked him what he wanted—he said that he was waiting for a parcel—directly my brother heard me speak he came in, and took hold of the prisoner, and told him to come with him—when we got down stairs I
asked the prisoner how he came there—he said that a lady sent him there for a parcel—I ran over to my father, who came, and told the prisoner that he would lock him up—he said, "What is the good of locking me up?"
THOMAS GROVE . (Policeman, F 83). The prisoner was given into my custody about a quarter past 5 o'clock in the morning—I took him to the station house, and on the way he said that he met a woman in Covent Garden Market, who asked him to go and take a parcel for her, and called him up stairs to bring the parcel down—he said that he lived at No. 4, Rose Court, Red Lion Square, but it was false.
Prisoner. The party had moved away that morning. Witness. The last person that lived there was named Campbell—I found no housebreaking implements upon you.
Prisoner. That was my landlady; she is living in Gray's Inn Lane now. (The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate, being read, was to the effect that a woman took him to the house for a pared.)
JURY. to MR. MILLER. Q. Does anybody live in the house but yourself? A. Two highly respectable lodgers, at the top of the house; an old gentleman, and his son and daughter—I left them in the house when I went out—they never get up till 8 or 9 o'clock—I went up afterwards, and their doors were all fast—there is one latch key for me, and two for them.
GUILTY .—The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.
JOHN WIRE . (Policeman, F 117). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Guildhall Sessions, Thomas Reid, Convicted April, 1855, of housebreaking and larceny; Confined eighteen months")—I was present—the prisoner is the person—I was not engaged in the case, but he was confined at our station before his trial, and I had an opportunity of seeing him there.
GUILTY.**— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH JEFFREYS . I am the sister of Joseph Jeffreys. On Saturday Night, 23rd May, I went into the garden, and saw a light in Mr. Tyler's chapel, which is next door—I went with my brother, looked in, and saw two men at the top of the pulpit stairs—one was taking up the carpet, and the other, Colbreth, was holding a light—I did not see the face of the other, as he was stooping.
JOSEPH JEFFREYS . I live at No. 54, Church Street, Mile End New Town, next door to this chapel. I saw a light in the chapel a little after 12 o'clock on this night—I looked in at the window, and saw two men walking about—one of them had got a light—I did not see who they were—I told the schoolmaster, and we both looked in at the window, and saw them in the pulpit—the prisoners are a great deal like the men—I sprang a rattle—the policeman came, and Bone was taken close by the chapel window, which was open, inside the railings which surround the chapel—there was no open gate—he must have got over the railings.
CHARLES FILER . I am a schoolmaster, and live at the school-house, in Church Street—Jeffreys called me—I went with him, looked through the chapel window, and saw two men on the top of the pulpit stairs, one holding a candle, and the other tying up a bundle—Bone is one of them—the chapel is surrounded by a high railing, but I went through Mr. Jeffreys' house,
whose back door leads into the chapel yard—the chapel window was open—I saw Bone taken into custody in the chapel yard, five or six yards from the window, but when I first saw him outside the chapel he was only half a yard from the window.
JOHN BROWN . (Policeman, H 168). On Saturday night, 23rd May, about 12 o'clock, I heard a rattle sprung—I went to Mr. Tyler's chapel, and found one window open—I saw Bone lying on his face in the chapel yard, close to that window—when I turned my light on, he got up, and ran several times backwards and forwards inside the iron railings—I took him, and found on him this screw driver and box of lucifers—Colbreth then came from a dark corner inside the rails, and said, "Oh! we have got him now"—the rails are fourteen or fifteen feet high, and he could not get out, as the people were surrounding the railings—I took hold of him, and held him till another constable came—I found these two pieces of cake (produced), one piece in the pocket of each prisoner—they were quite warm, and fitted each other.
JOHN EARL . (Policeman, K 133). I went to the chapel about 12 o'clock, and received Colbreth from Brown—I went into the chapel, and saw some boxes which had been wrenched open, and also a desk—the sergeant compared the marks, in my presence, with the screwdriver which was found on Bone, and they corresponded—a velvet cloth had been removed, and was found lying on the window; the vestry carpet had been removed, and also that from the pulpit stairs.
CAROLINE WHITE . I am pew opener at this chapel. The vestry carpet, and the pulpit carpet, and the boxes, and the desk, were safe at 8 o'clock at night, and the window was fastened—everything was then secure.
WILLIAM CURTIS . (Policeman, K 13). I went into the chapel, and saw a pane of glass broken, and the window open—I found a carpet in the aisle, near the open window, and outside the window this pair of kid gloves (produced), and part of a candle.
WILLIAM TYLER . I am the minister of this Independent chapel. These are my gloves—they were left in a cupboard in the vestry—the other property belongs to me—the carpet belongs to the members of the church—Mr. Livesey is one of them.
Bone's Defence. I went over there for convenience, having no other place to go to, and picked up the screw driver.
Colbreth's Defence. The cake was not produced at Worship Street at all.
COLBRETH†— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
BONE— GUILTY .
Bone was further charged with having been before convicted.
WILLIAM KING . (Policeman, H 22). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Clerkenwell Sessions; James Adams, Convicted, Sept., 1856, of housebreaking and larceny; Confined six months")—Bone is the person—I had him in custody, and was present at the trial.
>GUILTY.— Confined Eighteen Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, June 16th, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Month.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD HAMMILL . (Policeman, K 167). On 27th May I went to the prisoner's house, No. 6, Turner's Building, Grove Road, at 12 o'clock at night—I went to the first floor front room with a brother officer; I knocked at the door of the room, I asked the prisoner to open it—he said, "Wait a minute"—I said that I was a policeman—he opened the door in his shirt—there was a young girl in the room, his daughter—I asked him if he knew where his wife was—he said, "No"—I told him she was in custody for uttering counterfeit coin—I searched, and on the mantel piece found part of a counterfeit shilling, and also a counterfeit sixpense—my brother officer went to a drawer, and found in it a file, and two moulds in a box on the sideboard—several bottles were found with fluids in them, and a galvanic battery, a jar with quicksilver in it, another jar with some blue powder in it; and in the table drawer my brother constable found three files and three spoons, and he found something under the bed, but I did not see that—I took the prisoner to the station—I asked him if he know anything about these things—he said that he did not know anything about them.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did you find that he had just left his bed? A. Yes—I did not know that he had lately married again—his daughter is thirteen years old—I have heard that his wife is a very drunken woman—she said that she had had these things given to her.
COURT. Q. Was that during the time that the prisoner was under Examination? A. He was in the dock, and his wife was asked by the Magistrate if she wished to say anything, and she was cautioned, and she Said something.
MR. COOPER. Q. Did not she say that she herself was the person who had brought them home, and her husband knew nothing about them? A. She said that she had had them given to her by some person, and she brought them home—the things were produced at that time, and she was charged at the same time with uttering coin—I know the prisoner had been at work till the Saturday previous for Mr. Westcott, in St. James's Place—he said, "Wait a minute," and it was not more than two minutes before he opened the door.
CHARLES STEGGLES . (Policeman, H 164). I was with the last witness—I assisted in searching the room; I found three iron spoons in the table drawer, and three files—I found five bottles on the sideboard, with something in them, a jar containing some quicksilver on the sideboard, a jar with some powder in it, and this top of a jar, which contains a broken plaster of Paris mould—on the floor, under the bed, I found this purse with one good shilling sad two counterfeit shillings—they were all in the same end of the purse, but the counterfeit shillings were wrapped in a piece of paper—I found these two moulds in a box on the sideboard.
Cross-examined. Q. Are not these just the files that a man uses to sharpen saws? A. I believe so—there were two beds in the room, one laid on the floor—the little girl was lying in that bed when I went in—it was under that bed I found the purse—these other things were on the sideboard—I put them into this basket, which was in the room—it belongs to the prisoner I suppose—there is something in these bottles, I do not know whether it is water.
COURT. Q. Did you hear anything said to the prisoner when the things were found? A. He saw them all found—when I found the mould, I said to him, "What are these?"—he said, "I don't know anything about them"—I went down to the station with the girl—my brother constable took the prisoner.
COURT. to EDWARD HAMMILL. Q. What did you say to the prisoner? A. I said, "You must accompany us to the station"—he made no reply, but he went—he was asked where his wife was; he said that he did not know—I said that she was in custody—he said that it was not the first or second time she had been in custody for the same thing; she had been once at the Thames, and once at Bow Street—he said to the child, "You must know something about these things"—she said, "No, I don't"—I am not used to Mint cases—I judged that these things were for making coin—his wife gave her address at No. 8, Turner's Buildings, Grove Street—that was not right, it is No. 6.
EDEN BOWLER . I live in Whiskin Street I am landlord of Nos. 6 and 8, Turner's Buildings—the prisoner occupies the first floor front room at No. 6—his wife lives with him, and her mother and a young girl about thirteen or fourteen, but she is nearly a woman; I believe she is his step daughter—they have nothing to do with No. 8.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you known the prisoner about the time he has occupied those premises? A. Yes—he appeared to be an honest, industrious man—I have seen him go to work of a morning—he is a carpenter.
COURT. Q. Do you know what these things are for? A. I should have thought they were for coining.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. This is a mould for a shilling; here are the obverse and reverse sides of it—these two shillings are counterfeit, and are from that mould—these implements ire used for making coin, but they have not been used for some time—these files are used for making good the place where the get comes off, but they have not been used lately—they have white metal in their teeth—the metal appears the same as the coin—these jars contain what is used for plating the coin—these bottles contain acid used for charging the battery—all these articles are for the purpose of coining—these spoons are used for melting the metal, but have not been used lately.
Cross-examined. Q. Would it not require many more things to make coins besides what are here? A. No—this good shilling does not at all refer to the mould or the counterfeit coin.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY STEVENS . I keep the British Oak, in Osborn Street, WhiteChapel. On Tuesday, 26th May, the two prisoners came to my house, between 4 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon—Pomeroy asked for half a quartern of gin and cloves—I served her—the prisoners were both standing together, Pomeroy paid me with a shilling, and I gave her change, 10 1/2 d.—they both drank the spirits, and went away—I placed the shilling on a sideboard in the bar parlour—there was no other shilling there—on the next day the prisoners came again, between 10 and 11 o'clock at night—Pomeroy called for a pint of half and half, and she gave me another shilling in payment—I immediately found it was bad, and I told her so, and told her she had given me one yesterday—she made some reply, but I could not understand what she said—I sent for a constable, and Pomeroy said, "Let my mother go"—I brought the two shillings to the station, marked them, and gave them to the constable.
EDWARD HAMMILL . (Policeman, K 167). I was called to the house of the last witness on 27th May, about 11 o'clock at night—I found the two prisoners, and took them into custody—I told him they were charged with uttering counterfeit coin—Pomeroy said, "Spare my mother, she knows nothing about it"—Mr. Stevens gave me these two shillings; he marked them in my presence.
Pomeroy. I never knew anything of it, or of drinking, till I was married six months ago.
POMEROY— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
JAMES— NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES SMITH . (Police sergeant, M 4) I produce a certified Record of a conviction here—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, Aug., 1856, Henry Brown, Convicted on his own confession of unlawfully uttering a half crown and a shilling; Confined three months")—I was present—the prisoner is the person.
ELLEN BLACKSTONE . I am the wife of George Blackstone, who keeps the Rose Tavern, No. 96, Jermyn Street On Saturday, 16th May, the prisoner came, about 2 o'clock in the afternoon; he asked for a half pint of porter—it came to a penny—he gave me in payment a shilling—I looked at it, and thought it was not good—I took it into the bar parlour, and showed it to my husband, and he passed it to a friend, who looked at it, but it was not out of my sight—I got it back—I gave it to the prisoner, and said that it was a bad shilling—he said, "Is it?" and he gave me a good one—he bit the bad shilling several times, and disfigured it very much—he went away.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Were you uncertain about his being the man when you first saw him? A. When I saw him in our public house he had his hat on, and when I saw him afterwards he had not his hat on, but when his hat was put on I knew him—I saw the shilling after he bit it—I saw it distinctly in his hand, because I was looking at it—I think I saw him again at Marlborough Street at the end of the next week.
saw Mrs. Blackstone show a shilling to her husband, and he gave it to me; I said that it was bad—Mrs. Blackstone took it back to the prisoner—he is the man—I asked him where he got it from—he said, "God knows"—he put the shilling to his teeth, and bit it nearly to pieces—he then asked for a match to light his pipe, and pretended to be tipsy—he left, and I followed him; he walked along Jermyn Street—he crossed the road at the corner, and there was another person in a cart—he got into the cart—the cart went on a little distance, and stopped against the United Service Club—a man came to the back of the cart for an instant, and then went away—the cart then went on along Charles Street to the door of the Opera Tavern—the prisoner got out, and went into the tavern—he brought out a pint pot with something in it, and passed it into the cart to the other man—they seemed to be drinking—they then went on—I went into Mr. Monkton's, and asked what they had passed—I came out, and followed the cart; the same two men were in it—they went on to Cockspur Street, and there by Waterloo House I saw the officer, and gave the two men into custody—I told the officer they had been uttering bad money.
Cross-examined. Q. But had you seen the other man uttering anything? A. No—another man came to the back of the cart—I did not notice whether they had any conversation with him.
JOSHUA MONKTON . I keep the Opera Tavern. On 16th May the prisoner came, about 2 o'clock in the day—he asked me for a pint of porter, and tendered me a counterfeit shilling—I discovered it, and marked it—he then gave me a good half crown—I gave him change, a florin, a 3d. piece, and 1d.—he went away, and soon after Boyer came in and spoke to me—I afterwards gave the bad shilling to the officer.
Cross-examined. Q. Did any other man come in at the same time with the prisoner? A. A little afterwards a companion of his came in—I had seen him and the prisoner together before—I did not receive any shilling from the other man—I marked the bad shilling, and put it on a shelf—I gave it to the officer about twenty minutes afterwards.
WILLIAM CROCKER . (Police sergeant, C 9). On 16th May Boyer called my attention to a horse and cart, and the prisoner and another man in it—the prisoner was lying down in the cart, which was at the corner of Cockspur Street—I said that I took them on a charge of uttering counterfeit coin—the other man said, "We know nothing about it"—the other man took two bottles out of a basket which appeared to contain chaff; and threw them out of the cart—I found on the prisoner a 2s. piece, 1d., and a 3d. piece; and on the other man 3s. 2 1/2 d. in coppers, and 9s. 7d. in small silver coin; sixpences, and 4d. pieces, and 3d. pieces, all good—I found two counterfeit shillings in the chaff basket, rolled in a piece of paper—the other man was asked, in the presence of the prisoner, who the cart belonged to, and the things in it—he said everything belonged to him, except what had been found by the sergeant, meaning me—he said that he had merely picked the prisoner up, and given him a ride—this shilling was handed to me by Mr. Monkton.
LEWIS BRAY . (Policeman, P 105). I know the prisoner, and the other man who was with him—I have known them connected together for two years, in each other's company—I believe they are brothers, but I cannot swear it.
GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution, and offered no evidence against HENRY BROWN
NOT GUILTY .
(The evidence given in the last case was repeated.)
WILLIAM BROWN— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .
He received a good character.— Confined Twelve Months.
No evidence was offered against Jane Branham.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN LAW . I am a widow, and live at No. 20, East Street, Edgeware Road; I keep a general shop. On 20th May, at half past 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a quarter of an ounce of tea and two ounces of sugar—they came to 1 1/2 d.; she gave me a shilling, I gave her change, and put the shilling into the till, and in about five minutes I found it was bad—I had not another shilling there—I put it into a private drawer in my parlour, locked it, and kept the key in my pocket—on the next evening the prisoner came again, about half past 8 o'clock, for a quarter of an ounce of tea, and two ounces of sugar—she gave me another shilling—I told her it was bad, and that she was there last evening, and gave me a bad shilling—I sent for a policeman, and bent the second shilling that she brought, and gave the two shillings to him.
Prisoner. Q. You gave the shilling to a little boy, and he went out of the shop? A. No; he looked at it, but he never went oat of the shop with it—it was never out of my sight.
WILLIAM WILLIAMS . (Policeman, D 141). I was called to the last witness's shop on 21st May, and the prisoner was given into my custody, and these two shillings—I told the prisoner she was charged with uttering them—she said that she would go with me—I asked her where she got them; she said that I wanted to know too much—at the station this piece of a bad shilling was given to me by Mrs. Brooker.
GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
ROSE BROWN . I keep a cutlery and fancy shop. On Saturday, 6th June, about 10 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a pennyworth of hair pins; I served her, she gave me a bad sixpence—I told her it was bad, and she gave me a good one—I showed the first sixpence to Fordham, and he kept it—I afterwards gave the prisoner into custody.
JOHN FORDHAM . I live in Upper Seymour Street, Euston Square. I was in Miss Brown's shop—I saw the prisoner come in, and give her a bad sixpence—I took it, and put it on the counter—the policeman took it.
there—she was moving her mouth, and seemed to be swallowing something—I put my hand round her throat, put my fingers in her mouth, and took out these two 4d. pieces—I got this sixpence at Miss Brown's.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read at follows: "I am very sorry."
Prisoner's Defence. I am married, and have four children; my husband is a bricklayer, I had been on the drink, away from him; I was not aware that the sixpence was bad; I was in liquor, I had been drinking all the afternoon.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN RICHES . I keep the Green Dragon, in St. Pancras. On Tuesday, 9th June, the prisoner Hughes came to my house, and asked for half a pint of porter—he paid me with a bad sixpence, I bent it, and gave it him back—he bent it, and gave me a good half crown; I gave him a 2s. piece, and 5d. in coppers—he went away, and I followed him to the Brill public house, about 200 yards from my house—he there joined Shepherd, and they walked together through Phillips's Buildings, to Wilstead Street—Shepherd went into a marine store shop, and Hughes went into a public house, and had half a pint of beer—when he came out I went in, and saw Mrs. Maw, and from what she said I followed Hughes, and saw Shepherd join him again at the top of Wilstead Street—they went towards Euston Square, and in their going I saw something pass from one to the other; I could not say what it was—they went into Gower Place, to the Barley Corn public house—they both went in there together—when they came out of the Barley Corn I followed them, and saw something pass between them again—I could not see from whom, or to whom—I told the constable what I had seen.
PAULINA MAW . I am the wife of Charles Maw, he keeps the Somers Arms. On 9th June, the prisoner Hughes came for half a pint of beer; he gave me a sixpence, I gave him 5d. change, and put the sixpence into the till—there was no other sixpence there—he drank the beer, and went away directly—soon afterwards the last witness came in—I looked at the sixpence, and found it was bad—I kept it by itself till I gave it to the officer on Wednesday morning.
EDWARD BEAL . I keep the Barley Corn beer shop, in Gower Place. On 9th June, the prisoners came to my house together, Hughes asked for a pint of half and half; I served it, and he gave me a sixpence—I gave him 4d. change, and they went away—I put the sixpence into the till, where I had two or three other sixpences, but I do not know that I had a bad one—I had given change just before, and had looked at the sixpences I had left there, and in my judgment they were good—I went to the till in about twenty minutes, and found one bad sixpence there—no other silver had been put into the till after I took that sixpence from Hughes—I had taken copper, but not silver.
Hughes. Q. After you took the sixpence from me, where did you go? A. I went on a little business, but I left my son to mind the bar.
COURT. Q. Then you do Dot know what was done with the till while you were away? A. No; the till was left open, of course.
JAMES MASON . (Police sergeant, C 22). I took the prisoners—I found on Hughes 3s., and on Shepherd 4s. 2d. in silver, and 1s. 2d. in copper—I received this sixpence from Mrs. Maw, and the other from Mr. Beal.
Hughes. Q. Did you not take 5s. from met A. No; 3s.—I was told that you dropped 2s., which I received from Mr. Riches, but I did not see you drop. them.
Shepherd. Q. How could you tell that Hughes dropped them? A. I was just behind you, the 2s. dropped from Hughes.
Hughes's Defence. I do not know whether the first was bad; any one could have access to the till; I met this prisoner, he inquired his way to Chelsea, and we went and had a pint of beer, that is all I know about him.
Shepherd's Defence. I saw this man and asked my way to Chelsea; he said that he was going that way, and asked me to have half a pint of beer; I said I did not care; we came out and were taken.
HUGHES— GUILTY .
SHEPHERD— GUILTY .
Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JOHNSON . I am assistant to Mr. Harris, a linendraper, in Bishopsgate Street. On Saturday evening, 30th May, the prisoner came to my master's shop, about 8 o'clock at night—she asked for a cap front—I had not one to suit her, and she purchased two yards of printed cotton—it came to 1s. 1 1/2 d—she offered me a 5s. piece—I took it to Mr. Harris—he gave it back to me—I gave it back to him, and saw him give it to the officer—I am sure it was the one I had from the prisoner—on 22nd May, the Friday week before, the prisoner had come to the shop at night, and purchased a cap front—it came to 9 1/2 d.—she gave me a 5s. piece, and I gave her the change—I did not notice that it was bad—I took it to my master, and in a few minutes he came to me and showed me a 5s. piece—I took it to a public house, and left it with Amelia knight—shortly afterwards she came to me, and brought me a 5s. piece—I took it, and showed it to my master—I thought it was bad—I gave it back to Amelia Knight—shortly afterwards Mr. Shepherd, her master, came back with it—he laid it on the counter, and my master took it up, and gave it to me—I broke it, and kept the pieces, and gave them to an officer—I have not the least doubt that the prisoner is the person who came on the two occasions—I did not say anything to her about it—I cannot tell that it was the same that I gave Knight that she brought back, but I can tell that that was the same that was brought back by Shepherd—I never saw the prisoner before 22nd May—I am sure she is the same person that was there on the 22nd—we have many customers in the course of a week, but they are regular customers, not many chance customers—the crown passed on the 30th I gave to Mr. Harris, and he gave it to me, and I gave it directly to the policeman.
CORNELIUS HARRIS . I keep a shop at No. 77, Bishopsgate Street. On 22nd May the last witness brought me a crown—I do not think I took it in my hand—it was placed on the desk—I told him to take it and get change—Amelia Knight came about 10 minutes afterwards, and brought a crown
piece—I examined it, and found it was bad, and gave it back to Johnson—he took it to Knight, to the counter, and she took it away—shortly after Mr. Shepherd came to my shop—he gave me a crown—I showed it to Johnson, and I gave Mr. Shepherd 5s.—on Saturday evening, 30th May, Johnson brought me a crown piece—I had it in my possession—I believe I gave it back to him—he afterwards gave it back to me, and I gave it to the officer.
COURT. Q. Did any conversation take place between you and Mr. Shepherd? A. Yes—I saw the prisoner on the second occasion—I did not see her on the first—I had not taken sufficient notice to know that Amelia Knight brought the same coin back—I did not notice whether it was the same that Mr. Shepherd brought back—they may have been all three different.
AMELIA KNIGHT . I am barmaid at the Vine Inn, Bishopsgate Street. On 22nd May Johnson brought me a crown piece for change—I gave him 5s. worth of coppers for it, and put the crown on the sideboard—there was no other money there—soon afterwards I gave it to my master, and he gave it me back, and said that it was not good—I took it back, and gave it to Mrs. Johnson—Mr. Harris was there—Johnson afterwards gave me a crown piece, and I took it back to my master.
COURT. Q. Did Johnson return the crown that you gave him? A. Yes—I took it back to my master, and he took it back to the shop—it laid on the sideboard for five or ten minutes—that was in the bar—there was no one there but me—my master came down, and I gave it him—there were no 5s. pieces in the till, nor half crowns—there were shillings.
BENJAMIN SHEPHERD . I am landlord of the Vine Tap. On 22nd May Knight gave me a bad 5s. piece, which she took from the sideboard in the bar—I gave it to her back to take to where she got it from—she left the house, and returned soon after, and gave me a bad crown—I took it to Mr. Harris, got it changed, and left the crown with him.
HENRY FERRETT . (City policeman, 624), I was called to Mr. Harris's shop on Saturday, 30th May—I received this crown piece from him, and took the prisoner into custody—these two pieces of a crown were given me by Johnson, on the Monday following, at the Mansion House—the prisoner gave her address in Goulstone Street—I inquired there, and she was not known—she said at the station that a gentleman gave her the crown that she was given into custody for on the 30th.
COURT. Q. Did you ask her anything? A. I believe the station master asked her where she got it—I had only got one at that time.
Prisoner. I am innocent.
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, June 17th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Baron WATSON.; Mr. Baron CHANNELL.; Sir HENRY MUGGERIDGE., Knt., Ald.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Mr. Baron Watson and the Fourth Jury.
695. EDWIN LOFTING (15) , Stealing, whilst employed under the Post Office, 2 post letters, one containing 2 half sovereigns, 1 sixpence,and 4 postage stamps, and the other 1 half sovereign, 1 sixpence, and 12 postage stamps; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .
(The prisoner received a good character.)
Confined Four Months, and afterwards sent to a Reformatory for Five Years.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and FRY. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES HYDE . I am a painter, and live at No. 26, Moorgate Street. I was in the service of Mr. Le Cren; my mother lived there, as housekeeper to him and Mr. Allingham, who lived in the same house—on 17th Feb., between 9 and 10 o'clock at night, I found a letter in the letter box of the door—this is it (produced)—I gave it to my mother at once.
WILLIAM ALLINGHAM . I am a surgeon. I now reside at No. 36, Finsbury Square—I formerly lived at No. 26, Moorgate Street; I was living there in Feb.—I had recently returned from the Crimea—on 17th Feb. I received this letter from my housekeeper—after reading it I consulted my legal advisers, and it was handed over to the inspector of police—it was in the state it is now; it was open, not sealed—I do not know anything of the prisoner.
EMILY BRUFF . I live at No. 5, Bridgewater Square, Barbican—my husband is a cabinet maker. I have known the prisoner nearly five years—she came to lodge with us five years since, next July—she has been living with me nearly all that time—she occupied two rooms on the third floor—when she came to me she was a stock maker; lately she has tried mantle work, and nightcaps for a short time—she has been at work very little, not so much as before—I have seen her write her bills—I believe this letter to be her writing—I remember the officers coming to search the premises, about two months ago—they searched her rooms; Mr. Bruff and I were both present—they searched the whole of her boxes—I saw them take papers away; they took them out of a desk of hers.
Prisoner. Q. Was not a letter addressed to Mr. Simmonds enclosed to me in a letter addressed to Emily Taylor? A. It was so—I think there were two letters sent to Emily Taylor, I am not quite sure; there were two letters—the letter stated that she was to take it to the warehouse, and say she had seen you write it—(MR. BODKIN. here produced the letter)—I did not look at the papers which the officers took—I believe the letter you speak of was given to you by Emily Taylor; I do not know exactly how it came—it was shown to me, I should think, a year and a half before the officers came—there was a bad shilling inclosed in one of the letters; you showed it to me—I do not know what became of that letter.
COURT. Q. How often have you seen the prisoner write? A. I think about three times; I saw her write bills to put in the window for girls to work.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Who is Emily Taylor? A. A girl who worked for the prisoner—I have seen her here to-day—the prisoner told me that Emily Taylor had brought that letter, and the girl herself said so—I was not present when she brought it.
have been for some time past employed to trace, if I could, the author of letters of this description—I have inquired at the places mentioned in the letter, and learnt that they knew nothing of the prisoner—I went to the prisoner's lodging on 22nd April, after I had taken her into custody—I found these two letters in a box in her room—the box was not locked—Mrs. Bruff and Thain were present, and I think Mr. Bruff.
MIRIAM SMITH . I am married; I live at No. 51, Cornhill. I have known the prisoner nearly twenty years—she was a stock maker—I have seen her write—this letter is very like her handwriting; I could not say that it is her's, I think it is very like it—I believe it to be her's; the letter that I received proves it.
COURT. Q. Have you been much in the habit of looking at various handwritings? A. No—I can write—I have seen the prisoner write a dozen times or more—the last time was about twelve months ago.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You were very intimate with her, I believe? A. Yes.
CATHERINE COLLINS . I live in Bloomfield Street North, Dalston. I am in no business now; I have been a stock maker—I was acquainted with the prisoner, I am not now; only for the time that I worked with her, about sixteen years back—it is full thirteen years ago that I saw her, and then quite promiscuously—I have seen her write—she used to write bits of poetry of an evening, nothing wrong—I believe this letter to be her writing—it very much corresponds with letters that were written about me to Mr. Hellaby—it is like the writing that I have seen of her's.
Prisoner. I do not recollect you; what was your name then? Witness. Catherine Molloy—I have been married fifteen years; you recollect me very well—I have seen you write; I have your writing by me now, with your own signature to it.
EMMA ATKINS . I live at No. 22, Bartlett's Buildings. I am the wife of Robert Atkins—I am a mantle maker—I know the prisoner very slightly; she worked a little for me—she was living in the house at the time I took lodgings there, two years ago—I have seen her write—I have seen letters written by her, which she has said were her writing—I believe this letter to be her writing—I had received a great many letters, and letters were sent to the house of Mr. Bruff, taxing me with being a most immoral character, and my husband the same—they were very indecent dreadful letters—I taxed the prisoner with being the author of them in the presence of Mrs. Bruff, and she said, "Good God, it is my writing."
Prisoner. Q. On what occasion did you see me write? A. On the evening of the Saturday on which a letter came—T came into your room, and you were writing; I and my daughter came to see a letter which you said you had received respecting me—I took a bill which you wrote, which was exactly the same handwriting, to show to the detective officer, and then I asked Mrs. Bruff to be a witness to my interview with you—I asked you if it was your writing, and you threw up your hands, and said, "Good God, it is my writing."
Prisoner. I said the bill was my writing certainly, but not the letter.
COURT. Q. How often have you seen her write? A. Twice—the last time was two years ago—it was apparently a letter that I saw her write; I did not read it, I merely saw her writing—several letters struck me as being the same, and my suspicions were aroused.
FRANCIS BABB . I am a boot maker, and live at No. 5, Redcross Square. I have known the prisoner for sixteen or eighteen years—I have seen her write several times—I believe this letter to be in her handwriting.
Prisoner. Q. On what occasion have you seen me write? A. I have seen you write bills repeatedly, and one Sunday I saw you put down the income and outlay, at my wife's request.
COURT. Q. How long ago is it since you saw her write? A. About three years ago—I may say I have seen her write dozens of times—I have looked at the writing afterwards—(The letter in question was here read; it commenced, "Sir, please enclose, on receipt of this, one sovereign; if not, I will at once accuse you of an unnatural crime." The remainder of the letter was totally unfit for publication).
Prisoner. I wish the two letters addressed to Emily Taylor to be read.
THOMAS THAIN . I am a detective officer of the City. I accompanied Bull to the prisoner's lodging, and took possession of this book—on a second occasion I took possession of a letter addressed to Emily Taylor—I found it among a parcel of papers in the room—(This letter signed "A Friend" was addressed to Emily Taylor, and requested her to make statements affecting the prisoner's character; for which payment was promised)—I have seen the prisoner write—I believe that letter to be in her handwriting.
Prisoner's Defence. I can only say that these letters have been going on for the last five years; they commenced by threatening that I should not remain in the stock business; for a long time they sent letters to the house where I was living; then they commenced at the warehouses where I used to work, till they got me out of the work, and when I got into another warehouse the letters began again; then they took to writing to my work people, similar to that of Emily Taylor, asking them to say I was the party that sent these letters; I was at last driven out of the stock business; I took to the mantle business, and the same thing commenced again while I was working for Welch and Margetson; I had not been at work there a month when a letter was sent to the warehouse boy, asking him to cut my work with a penknife, and then go to Mr. Margetson, and say I had sent in my work imperfect; Thain has that letter, and also another that was sent to a young person that was working for me, offering her a sovereign if she would, when she went out to her dinner, take two or three of the stocks with her, and also an apron, or anything of mine, and carry them to Mr. Welch, and swear that I had sent her to pledge them, and to tell Mr. Welch that she had seen me write letters.
MR. BODKIN. stated that in consequence of what the prisoner had stated on the former trial, the prosecutors had secured the attendance of the persons to whom the prisoner alluded, and were prepared to produce such letters as she desired. The prisoner called
MARY ANN COWELL . I have never seen the prisoner write letter—I received this letter (produced by Thain) at the commencement of last Oct. twelve months—I took it back to Miss Hamilton the next morning.
Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Where did you get it from? A. It came to my house, No. 12, Princes Street, by post—I am not acquainted with the prisoner's handwriting—(this was a letter signed Mrs. Thomas Clark, addressed to the witness, urging her to make false statements as to the character of the prisoner)—I do not know any such person as Mrs. Thomas Clark—the prisoner worked for Mr. Welch.
Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. Have you worked for the prisoner? A. Yes, in Bridgewater Square; I sat in the same room with her—she had
another room—she used frequently to go into that other room, I do not know for what purpose—I have often fetched her writing paper and postage stamps—I have afterwards seen her go into the other room by herself, and remain there some time—I have bought 6d. worth of stamps at once, and a quire of letter paper—she worked for Mr. Hellaby at that time—I have never seen her write—she has been in the room by herself for three or four hours after I have fetched her the paper.
Prisoner. Q. Did I ever send you to post any letters to any persons? A. No—I am sure you have been in the other room as long as three or lour hours by yourself.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did she produce any needlework that she had done during that time? A. No, she never took any in—(At the prisoner's request a letter was also put in and read, addressed to "George, Stock Department, Welch and Margetson's, Bridge Place, Southwark Bridge Road, to the same effect as the other.)
GUILTY .— Transported for Life.
PLEADED GUILTY .—(The prisoner received a good character.)— Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Baron Channell and the First Jury.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SLEIGH. the Defence.
(The prisoner was a medical man, called in to attend the deceased in her confinement, and the death was alleged to hone been occasioned by reason of neglect on his part. The particulars of the case were not of a nature for publication.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Baron Watson.
JOHN CONNOR . I am a bricklayer and plasterer, at No. 11, Tonbridge Street, New Road. On the night of 11th May, about 9 o'clock, I was at the Hunters' Arms public house—I met the prisoner outside—he interfered with me as I walked up the street, and asked whether I had spoken to the landlord of the Hunters' Arms about him—I said I did not know whether I had or not, but I would do so; and then, as he got at me, I pushed him away twice with my arm, and he deliberately opened a knife and stabbed me, under the gateway, in front of the house—he came in with the knife in his hand, and struck me—I was in the act of calling for a pot of porter—I said, "pot," but had not power to say, "porter," for the knife was put into me in a moment—he struck me at the side of my head, I bled a good deal—I have known the prisoner for years, and his father and mother also; they are very honest, industrious people—I had not struck him, or spoken to him on this occasion; he spoke to me first, and asked if I had laid any information about him to the landlord of the Hunters' Arms—a pair of boots had been taken off a man's feet some eight months ago, and I saw
the prisoner with a pair, but I did not say that he took them off; I only said I saw him with a pair.
Cross-examined by MR. M. J. O'CONNELL. Q. What is the prisoner? A. I do not know—I do not know in what state he was that evening—I had just got out of bed, and walked to the Hunters' Arms to have a pint of beer—I had been in bed about six hours—there were not half a dozen persons inside the Hunters' Arms—I cannot say how many there were outside—I was stabbed in the side of my face—I was taken to Mr. Scott's, and he secured my head, and washed and plastered the place—I went to work again in about a fortnight—I did not say before the Magistrate that I was stabbed in the neck—(The witness's deposition being read stated the wound to have been in the neck)—I did not say anything of the kind—I did not speak to the prisoner till he spoke to me, and called me all the dirty names he could lay his tongue to, and then I said, "Go away with your filthy language, I want nothing to do with you"—I did not say at the police court that I had not spoken to him at all that night—the poor man that lost his boots threw himself out of the top room window, and killed himself; but I did not say it was through the boots—I pushed the prisoner away twice, I did not strike him—I saw the knife at the station, it was a penknife.
MICHAEL SHEHAN . I live at No. 26, Compton Place. I was outside the Hunters' Arms on the night of 11th or 12th May last, and saw the prisoner there—I heard him say so help his God he would do for Connor—he went in at the side door after Connor—I heard a mob inside, and went in and saw Connor standing against the door, bleeding from the face—I put my hand to his cheek to stop the blood; it was spirting out, like turning a water cock on—he was taken to the surgeon's, and I got a policeman, and secured the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. How long had you been there? A. All the afternoon—there were a good many people there—I was outside, not inside—the prisoner appeared to have been drinking a little—I did not say at the police court that the wound was in the neck—I did not see the knife.
WILLIAM SCOTT . I am a surgeon, in Marchmont Street Connor was brought to me on Monday evening, 11th May, between 8 and 9 o'clock; he had a very small wound on the left cheek bone; there was. a great effusion of blood, an artery had been wounded—I dressed it, and plugged it with lint—he saw me three or four times afterwards in the course of a week or ten days—it required very little dressing after that.
Cross-examined. Q. About what size was the wound? A. Not oneeighth of an inch—it was a simple incision—a penknife would produce such a wound—it might happen by stumbling against the knife.
GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding. — Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Baron Channell.
JOHN GILLMAN . I am a blacksmith, at Ealing; I have a dwelling house there. On 23rd May I went to bed about 10 o'clock; I was the last person up, and fastened up the house—I got up about 7 o'clock next morning—I found the window shutters of the front room partially open, and the window
sash slid up to the full extent, so that any one could get in—I had left them fastened the night before—I missed a piece of undressed beef and some sausages, which I had left on the table the night before, and the dish was removed to under the window—outside the house I observed some foot-prints, and a large button lying by the side—I called the attention of Fielder, the constable, to the footprints, and gave him the button—about 11 o'clock that same morning I saw the constable compare some shoes with those footmarks—the table that the meat was on was about three yards from the window—it could not have been reached without getting into the room.
RICHARD FIELDER . (Policeman, T 157). On the morning of 24th May I examined some footmarks outside Mr. Gillman's house, and received from him this button—I apprehended the prisoner that same morning at Old Brentford—I took off his shoes, and compared them with the marks under the prosecutor's window—they exactly corresponded; one of the shoes is very remarkable, and it agreed in every respect—the button matches those on the prisoner's jacket, there are two missing from it—on the window sill I found marks of corded trowsers, and the prisoner had on cord trowsers when I took him—the sill appeared to have been recently done over with hearthstone, and it showed the marks very plainly.
THOMAS BENNING . (Policeman, T 96). About a quarter past 1 o'clock on the Sunday morning in question I saw the prisoner in the back lanes, about 300 yards from Mr. Gillman's house, in company with two other men; he was going towards Gillman's.
Prisoner's Defence. I was at home and in bed at a quarter to 12 o'clock that night; I am innocent of the charge.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, June 11th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; Sir HENRY MUGGERIDGE., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
702. ARNOLD DE GRUYTER (26) GUSTAVE HAHN (28) HERMANN BAHMER (18), and PHILIP WORF (36) , Stealing 18 pieces of cloth and 36 calf skins, value 36l.; the goods of Louis Morice Bachrach, the master of Bahmer.
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
(The prisoners, being Germans, had the evidence explained by an interpreter.)
THOMAS REEVES . I am porter to Mr. Bachrach, a merchant, of No. 38, Clement's Lane. Bahmer was employed as his clerk for about four or five months—on Saturday evening, 2nd May, about 6 o'clock in the evening, he came and asked me for the key of the office—I took it, and went down with him—I went into the office with him, and he pointed out to me a certain quantity of goods in the office, which he said would be sent for, and he desired me to give them up to the person coming for them—he went away, and at 7 o'clock the boy Mohr came with a truck—he gave me this letter—it was in an envelope—I did not open it—just as I had token it from the boy
Bahmer came up stairs—I handed the note to him—he opened it, and said, "It is all right"—he, and the boy, and I, went into the office, and Bahmer pointed out to the boy the goods he was to take—the boy took three bundles of cloth leather, and Bahmer immediately took down three dozen calf skins—he took them away himself—the boy took the three rolls of cloth leather—they were very heavy, and I assisted him in taking them—I allowed him to take eighteen rolls of this leather cloth, which was as much as I thought the truck would carry—I asked him where he was going to take them—he told me he was going to take them to Whitechapel—I told him to keep his eye on the goods, as I knew Whitechapel was a dangerous place—he went away with the eighteen rolls of cloth leather—Bahmer had before taken away the calf skins—at about 25 minutes to 10 o'clock that night Bahmer came again, and rang the bell—he asked me to put the lights on the stairs, as some persons were coming for the remainder of the goods—I waited till about 10 o'clock, and no one came—I then said I thought it was an unreasonable hour to deliver goods, and, whatever blame might be attached to him, I would not let them go; they might have them on Monday morning—on the Sunday I spoke to the prosecutor, and on the Monday morning Mr. Mohr and another man came with a truck, about half past 8 o'clock—they brought this note; but, in consequence of the communication I had had with Mr. Bachrach, I refused to let them have any goods—I sent for the inspector, and gave them in charge—they were taken, but were discharged.
Hahn. Q. Did Bahmer give you orders to deliver any goods on Monday? A. I left him with that engagement on Saturday evening, that he might send for them any time he liked on Monday morning—Bahmer has never made himself known to me as the brother of the prosecutor.
Bahmer. Q. Did I go away before the boy took the leather? A. You left, with the calf skins under your arm, before the boy went away with the leather.
LOUIS MOHR . I live with my father, in Gower Walk, Whitechapel. Hahn came to my father's house on Saturday evening, 2nd May, about 6 o'clock—I was just having my tea—he said to me, "You come with me; I want to remove out of Lambert Street"—I said, "Yes, sir"—he took me down to Back Church Lane, and I got a truck, and he took me up into the City—he took me to the corner of a street, and gave me a letter, and sent me to the house—I gave the letter to the housekeeper, Reeves—before Hahn gave me the letter I saw the prisoner De Gruyter—we met him just at the beginning of the City—he and Hahn went into a coffee shop—I stopped outside, round the corner, with the truck—they stopped in about ten minutes—they came out, and they said, "Come on"—I said, "How much further?"—they said, "A little further"—when we got to the corner of Clement's Lane, Hahn gave me a letter, and told me to go to the house, and give it to the lady or gentleman—De Gruyter was not with him then; he had just left—I went to the house, and saw Mr. Reeves, and gave him the letter—while I was giving the letter Bahmer came in—he opened the letter, and read it, and said, "Come in, my lad"—he showed me the things—I said I could not take them at once—he said, "Can you at twice?"—I took eighteen pieces of cloth—Mr. Reeves helped them into the truck, and he pushed the truck off—I went to Aldgate, and met Hahn and De Gruytei just by Aldgate Church—Hahn said to me, "Go on ahead, and I will meet you just by Whitechapel Church"—I went on, and they followed me behind—when we got to Whitechapel Church, they took me up Union Street, and
took nine pieces out of the truck into a house, and then took the truck, and the other nine pieces, just by Whitechapel Church, to a pawnbroker's across the road—they left them at the pawnbroker's—they then came back with the truck, and took the other nine pieces from the house—they went to a pawnbroker's, and they would not take them in—they took them to another, and they would not take them in—they took them to another, and they would not take them in—I then said, "I am tired; I cannot go any further; I want to go home and have my tea"—at that time De Gruyter and Bahmer joined Hahn—I went home, and left the truck with another boy that Hahn had called, and told him to keep along with me—we first saw that boy just by Aldgate Church, and he helped me to push up the truck—I went home to tea, and half an hour afterwards Hahn came, and said, "Will you fetch another truck?"—I said, "Yes"—he gave me the money, and I went, but could not find a truck—Hahn had given me 2s.—I went to a place where there was another truck, but they would not let me have it—I went home—Hahn came again by himself, about 11 o'clock, and said, "I thought you had a truck loaded with the leather"—I said, "No; I could not find a truck"—he said, "That makes it very bad"—he went away—I saw him on Monday morning, just as I went to work, at 7 o'clock, and when I came home at dinner time I heard my father was locked up—just before I went to work in the morning Hahn came to see my father.
De Gruyter. Q. Had I not left before the pawning of the things? A. Yes; you left just before Hahn went into the pawnbroker's.
COURT. Q. Was he with Hahn when the truck went back for the other nine? A. No, he was not.
Hahn. I simply told you to fetch some things for me; I said nothing about removing. Witness. I understood you said you was going to remove, I am almost sure you did—when I was going to tea you told me to fetch a full grown person to fetch the things.
GEORGE MOHR . I am the father of the last witness. On the Sunday the prisoners Hahn and De Gruyter came to my house, Hahn said, "I have got a chance for you"—he said some young man wanted to move out of the City on Monday morning—I said, "What time?"—he said, "About 6 o'clock"—I said, "So soon in the morning?"—he said, "Yes, about 6 o'clock"—he came to my house on Monday morning with a letter, about 6 or half past 6 o'clock; he said, "You must fetch a truck"—I had a young man in my house—I said, "It is better for me to take this young man along with me"—Hahn gave the man a shilling to fetch a truck, and Hahn and the man started from the house—before I started from my house Worf came, but I took no notice of him; I had seen him before—he came to my house when Hahn was there—he did not speak to any one—Worf, and Hahn, and I went together to Leman Street—I asked Hahn where I should go to—he said, "To Clement's Lane"—I said, "You go with me"—he said, "No, I will come by-and-by; the men are in the office"—Worf was there at the time Hahn said this; he could hear what was said to me—I said to Hahn, "I do not know what I shall do; where are the men?"—he said, "The men are in the office"—Hahn and Worf then left together—I went with the man and the truck to No. 28, Clement's Lane—I handed in the note which Hahn gave me—this is it—Reeves refused to give me any goods—he sent for an officer, and gave us into custody—we were afterwards discharged.
Hahn. Q. Was not the letter enclosed in an envelope?A. Yes—you said some one was going to remove.
Worf to GEORGE MOHR. I went out of your house with the sailor, not with you. Witness. The sailor fetched the truck, and we all went together—Hahn gave the sailor the shilling.
CATHARINE KROHNE . I keep a lodging house in Lambert Street, Whitechapel; Worf had a bed room there. On Saturday, 2nd May, Hahn and De Gruyter called on Worf; they called there three times that day—the first time was about half past 2 o'clock—I cannot say how long they stayed—I cannot tell when they called next—they went out, all three together, about 5 o'clock that afternoon—late that evening, about 10 or half past 10 o'clock, Worf came back to his lodging—he was not alone; I could hear that there was somebody with him, but I did not see the person—I saw Hahn and De Gruyter at my house—I spoke to Hahn—they seemed to have been up stairs, and Hahn, Worf, and De Gruyter went out altogether about 10 o'clock—I saw Worf and Hahn together on Monday morning.
Hahn. You are mistaken in the hour; you state it was half past 2, and it was 1 o'clock.
Worf. Q. How can you say that we three had been on Saturday in your house? A. I can say it, and you were all there together on Sunday.
COURT. Q. Did Worf only lodge at your house? A. Worf was lodging in my house, and a man named Bolden.
THEODORE HALSTEAD FOULGER . I am an officer. On 5th May I received instructions, and went to Lambert Street, and found Worf—I went to his apartment, and asked for Hahn—Worf said he would take me to where he was—I went out with him to a coffee shop in Norton Folgate—I ascertained that three or four persons answering the description of the prisoners and a female had been there, but they had gone—Worf proffered to lend me assistance, but I found he was misleading me, when some of the prisoners were before the Lord Mayor—I saw Worf just before that, at the Bay Tree public house; I had some conversation with him relative to the robbery—he said he knew all about the robbery—he said Bahmer came to his room and saw Hahn, and Bahmer said his master was in the habit of getting goods to pawn them; and Hahn said, "Like master, like man; why don't you get some goods from Mr. Bachrach, and pawn them too?"—the other officer produced some duplicates—during the examinations I saw Worf at the Justice room—he was always there.
LOUIS MORICE BACHRACE . I am a merchant, at No. 28, Clement's Lane, Bahmer was in my service as clerk about five months—I left my counting house on Saturday, 2nd May, about 5 o'clock—it was my custom to look up, and to deliver the key to Reeves—Bahmer had no right or authority to take away, or give away, any of my property—this paper was not written by me, or by my authority—this invoice is an invoice of a portion of the property stolen from me—it might have been got possession of by Bahmer—on the Sunday morning I had a communication made to me, which caused me to make inquiries—I went to Liverpool to make inquiries—the property produced here to-day is my property—Bahmer came to my private house, and said, "I am very sorry for what I have done"—he told me he gave himself up—he told me he took the calf skins himself, and begged me to recommend him to mercy—I did not hold out to him any promise.
COURT. Q. Had you told him you would see what you could do for him? A. Yes—he said, "I took the things myself, and pawned them myself; I give myself up to you"—I took him to the station.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. He came into your employ as what? A. As clerk—he was with me since the beginning of Jan.—I had him from a friend of mine—I had a good character—he was with my friend I dare say six months.
COURT. Q. Do you know De Gruyter or Hahn? A. I had seen De Gruyter once or twice—I saw him not long before 2nd May—he came once to do me a favour—he was a watchmaker—I do not know Worf at all, or Hahn—I never saw him.
Hahn. Q. Did you not send your clerk once to me, to request me to come and write a French letter? A. My clerk told me he had a friend who could write French, but I do not know who came; it might be you—I cannot remember whether I saw you when you brought the letter to my office.
FRAG BODE . I live at No. 70, Lambert Street. I know Worf—on Saturday, 2nd May, I went to Worf's lodging; I saw Hahn and De Gruyter there, about 11 o'clock—I saw them on Sunday, the next day, about 10 o'clock in the evening—on Monday, when I was taken into custody, I saw these duplicates in my house where I lodge; Worf showed them to me—he said he should accompany me to a beer shop, and I was to pretend to the prosecutor that I had given 1l. for the duplicates—he gave me a glass of beer first—I went to Mr. Bachrach's, and told him, and showed the duplicates to him.
Worf. A. Did I leave my work on Saturday, 2nd May? A. No—we knock off about half past 8 o'clock—I was working with you.
Worf. On that Saturday evening I never was out of my room. Witness. You were absent once about five minutes.
WILLIAM SMITH . (City policeman, 572). I took Worf into custody at the Mansion House, during the examination of the other prisoners—I found this paper in a box at his lodging—it is an order for the delivery of the goods, signed by the prosecutor—Worf was not present, he was in custody—I found three duplicates on Worf; one of them related to a watch—I apprehended the other three prisoners—in coming from Bow Lane station, Hahn said, "Do you think I shall get six months? I did not know they were stolen till they were placed in my hands"—Bahmer said he was led into the commission of the act by De Gruyter and Hahn; that they went to Colchester and came back to London, and that they were all three going to Liverpool, accompanied by Antoinette, that is Hahn's wife, at 7 o'clock in the morning.
Hahn. I told you I did not know that the things were stolen till afterwards? Witness. Yes.
JOHN WILLIAM FRYETT . I am a pawnbroker, at No. 16, Whitechapel Road. I produce three dozen calf skins, pawned on 2nd May, for 5l., I do not know by whom—I saw the party, but I did not take the things in—I could not identify him—there was one person—he was a youngish man—on the same day I took in nine pieces of American cloth—they were pawned by Hahn—the duplicates produced by the officer correspond with these things—they were pawned about 7 or 8 o'clock in the evening; the cloth about an hour after the skins.
De Gruyter's Defence. Hahn is a friend of mine, whose acquaintance I made through Bahmer; I had no work in London, and went to take a
walk; I met Hahn by a coffee house; I invited him to step in with me; he said he had something belonging to Mr. Bachrach, which he was going to pawn; after he had pawned the things, I joined him again, and we went and took a cup of coffee; I do not know how often I might have been in company with Hahn; I have been to Worf's place, because Hahn told me he had removed; I was in this way in company with Worf, for I was not acquainted with him; I called on Worf only to get my boots repaired; I have been in company with the others to Colchester, only to get some work; I had seen previously that I could not obtain work in London; I had a debt to pay of 5s. in my house, therefore I left my things in that house because I had no money to discharge the debt; I requested Hahn to sell two coats of mine to get money to enable me to travel; those two coats he sold, besides about four shirts; for the coats I got 11s., and for the shirts 4s. 6d., and for the trouble Hahn took I allowed him 2s.; while I was staying at Colchester I went about repairing and mending watches, and out of those earnings I was living all the time; I then came back, because Bahmer told me that had I been stopping in London, I might have got work there; I said to Bahmer, "I will apply to Worf, and Bahmer undertook to give me the address of some watchmakers who would employ me; the others said they would go to Liverpool; I said, "I will join you to Liverpool, to try to get work there; and in case I should not succeed in getting work there, I will take a situation as steward on board a ship, "
COURT. to GEORGE MOHR. Q. Who was it came to you on Sunday evening? A. Hahn and De Gruyter—they both left at the same time—it was on Monday that Worf came—I did not see De Gruyter on Monday.
Hahn's Defence. On the Friday evening Bahmer came to my house, and said his master, whom he represented as his brother, was obliged to pay a bill very urgent, and was obliged to pawn some things, and he requested me to go and pawn these things for his master; I said, "Yes, I will do so;" I was acquainted with his master, for Bahmer once brought a letter from his master to me, and I translated it for him, and after that I brought the letter to his counting house; after that I did not go to his office anymore; Bahmer gave me also another letter, telling me that I should send somebody next Saturday evening to his house with a truck, and it would be better if I came there myself, because his principal would not like anybody to know that he was going to pawn these things; I have two witnesses that could give evidence on this subject, De Gruyter and Miss Retzliff; on the following evening I was an hour too late, because I had been out looking about for a room; I had removed in the morning early from Lambert Street, because I had some dispute with my landlord; on Saturday evening, I went about 7 o'clock with a boy and a truck to Clement's Lane; I only showed the house of Mr. Bachrach to the boy, and told him that the gentleman would give him some articles which he was to take to Whitechapel Church, and I would meet him there—I then went to a washerwoman to whom I had something to take, and when I returned I met the boy with the truck, about Whitechapel Church; the boy said that the articles shown to him to take away from Mr. Bachrach's were so many that he could only take one part at a time; if I had known that these were stolen goods, I would have inquired what they were; how many there were, and all particulars about them; and I would have gone on Saturday morning or afternoon to the office of Mr. Bachrach, and inquired into the number of the articles; I might have done so without giving any suspicion, I would not have sent such a little boy; the eighteen pieces which the boy had on the truck were too heavy, he got somebody to assist him along Whitechapel; I went with the first of
these articles with the boy to a pawnbroker's, and pawned them for 2l. 10s., in the name of Mr. Bachrach, Clement's Lane; this pawnbroker's shop was in High Street; I went back with the boy, and fetched those pieces which I had left at my friend's; I there met Bahmer, and he asked me why I should have sent a truck with such a little boy, who was not able to take a quarter part of the things; I said had I known it was so much I would have sent him a horse and wagon; he said he would return immediately to his office, and I was to send a larger conveyance to fetch the rest, because those things were absolutely to be pawned that very evening, because the master had a very urgent account to settle on Monday morning; Bahmer then went away, and I sent some person to get a larger van to get all the things at once; in the meantime I pawned the nine pieces exactly for 2l. 10s., in the name of Mr. Bachrach, Clement's Lane, and when I came back they told me I was too late to get a larger conveyance; I then went to Worf's, where I had left in the morning a part of my things when I removed, and there I met Bahmer again; he knew I should meet him there, because De Gruyter had told him that I had removed; we did not tarry there very long, but went to Houndsditch, to a coffee shop, where I paid to Bahmer 3l. or 4l. and 14d., and the three duplicates, in the presence of De Gruyter, and Miss Retzliff can give evidence that I paid that amount; I said to Bahmer that I was obliged to sleep in a coffee shop that evening, because I had not got a bedroom; Bahmer said also, "I and De Gruyter will stop here to night," and he asked for pen and ink to write a letter, saying that he had pawned these things himself, and that was nothing because Mr. Bachrach was his brother, and if I would send the next Monday for the rest of the things; I said, "No, you had better leave off that, a very great accident or misfortune may follow these things;" he asked me to take a letter to his residence; it was about 11 o'clock at night; I said, "It is too late, I will take the letter to-morrow;" he repeated his request again, telling me that he would accompany me there; as we were going, he said to me that I was to tell the people he was gone to Liverpool, and if he were at Liverpool he would send money here; we went the next day to a friend's, where we staid all day, because I had no room to go to; Bahmer asked me to go on Monday morning and get some more things; I said no, it was too dangerous; Bahmer said he would pawn them himself, and I was to give the letter to the man who was going with the truck to fetch the things, and as he repeated his request, and said he would pay me well, I agreed, and he wrote a letter to the housekeeper, and gave it me; I did not know that this letter was a forged one which he had made in presence of De Gruyter and Miss Retzliff, because he had agreed upon that with the housekeeper, who would deliver all the articles; I was rather late on the following morning, and I came to Mohr's about 7 o'clock; I gave Mohr the order, which he was to hand over to the housekeeper; I know Bahmer said he would go to meet the man there, and then he would take the man, and go and pawn the things; and as I had to deliver this letter to Mohr as I went to work, I stopped there till half past 8 o'clock, and then went to my own dwelling, and then I heard that they were gone to Colchester, and I was to follow them down there; I believe Bahmer must have been informed that somebody had informed against him; about 11 o'clock I was in Leman Street, and there I met Worf; we took a glass of beer together; the wife of Mohr came to me and asked what was become of her husband, because he did not come back; about 11 o'clock I sat in a public house reading a paper, and Worf came and called me out of doors; when I came out, Worf said to Mrs. Mohr, "There is Hahn, he was the cause of your husband being taken into custody;" upon which I said, "If
you think so, do as you think proper," and I was taken; Mrs. Mohr said, "It was the fault of this fellow that my husband was taken, take him in charge;" I had given the letter to her husband that morning to fetch the things, that was all I know; the policeman said, "You must go away;" Mrs. Mohr was following me up, and in order to avoid a noise I took a cab, and drove away; in the afternoon I went to Colchester, De Gruyter was also there, mending watches; I had been in company with him from the morning till 9 o'clock at night, on the Sunday previous to our being taken into custody; we returned to London the same evening; Bahmer called on his landlord, and when he came back, he said, "If I were to inform against you, I would be free;" the thing was only to know where De Gruyter and I were; on the Tuesday evening Bahmer went to his master, and in order to excuse himself, he said that I and De Gruyter were the guilty parties; Bahmer did not require any temptation to do this bad thing, because he had been obliged to run away from his home on account of having stolen a letter with ten Prussian dollars, and in London he had made many attempts to swindle; I was never intimate with Bahmer; I did not seek for his friendship, but he sought for mine; in the time, eight weeks since, that I made his acquaintance, he called on me more than ten times; he repeatedly asked me to come and see him; I have been there only once, and was there only five minutes.
Worf's Defence. I cannot say that I was out on Saturday evening; on the Saturday evening these three men came to my house, and said they were going to Liverpool in the morning; I asked Hahn what he had done, he said, "Nothing at all;" Bahmer made me a present of the three duplicates; I went to Mr. Bachrach, and asked him if he had offered 4l. to any one that gave him information; he said, "No;" I said, "Put down on a piece of paper that you are willing to give 2l.," and so he did; I said, "I expect a letter from those men, and as soon as I have a letter I will tell you who they are;" he said, "I don't want them, I want my goods back;" he said he did not believe my word what I said; I had the three tickets, but how could I know that Mr. Bachrach would get his goods back; I had 1l. of Mr. Bachrach.
Bahmer's Defence. I never knew Hahn before; I made his acquaintance through another man; I knew De Gruyter; he came from Germany, and brought a letter for me from my uncle; through that I got acquainted with him; Hahn knows perfectly well that I am not brother to Mr. Bachrach, because Cook told him my name was Bahmer; Hahn came to me, and asked me to get him a situation, and I gave him an address to Stockmer and Co.; he afterwards told me he was conversant with the French language, and as my master had a letter to be written in French, I called on him, and got him to write it, and from that time, after writing that letter, he told me that my master was a swindler, and it was no sin to swindle a swindler, who was swindling other persons, and he said if he had any things, he would pay me; I also got daily visits from De Gruyter; my master had American leather, cloth, and calf skins, and Hahn came to my office, and said he was going to take his things away, and he would write a letter for me, that I might say I had received an order for the goods, and I should be free, and we would go together to America; at last he prevailed upon me with this letter; the boy came with the truck, and gave me the letter; I opened it, and gave the boy the pieces to take away; after that I got in such anxiety I did not know what to do; I ran away from the office, and went to my friend Hahn, and he said to me, "You need not be
afraid," that I had got the order, and it would be nothing, "You have only to say that the order came from your master;" Hahn said that eighteen pieces were too few, they were a trifle, that I should go and fetch the calf skins, else we should not get away; and I went and fetched the three dozen calf skins, and he pointed out which pawnbroker's I should pawn them at; I pawned them, and got 5l. on them; I never received a farthing from Hahn, nor a ticket; Hahn received 5l. on the articles he pawned himself; he never gave me any money; the 5l. which I received for the things I pawned was taken from me by De Gruyter, he saying that he was much older than I was; Hahn told me that I was to go in company with De Gruyter, and he would follow us in the evening, because he was afraid the thing might be known, and we went to Colchester, Hahn having bought razors for 2l., which he sold again; I never had the money.
Hahn. Bahmer has said that I said his master was a swindler; as far as I can recollect, the letter I translated was about watches, and I thought I could see from it that Mr. Bachrach was a swindler.
CATHARINE KROHNE . re-examined. I saw De Gruyter and Hahn with Worf on 2nd May—they went out together on that day—I cannot tell at what hour, but I saw the three together—I believe it was Worf who came back about half past 10 o'clock, but I did not see him.
FRAG BODE . re-examined. I saw De Gruyter and Worf on 2nd May—at 5 o'clock De Gruyter and Hahn were there—they left at about 6 o'clock—we had made shoes together. Hahn called the following witness for the Defence.
ANTOINETTE RETZLIFF . On the Friday evening De Gruyter and Bahmer came to Hahn's house—Bahmer said his master was in urgency for money, and he asked if Hahn would go and pawn these things of his master's—Hahn said, "Yes," and Bahmer and De Gruyter went away together.
COURT. Q. Are you married? A. No—I live with Hahn—we removed from our place, and took everything away—I said to Hahn he should go and take another room, in order to have a shelter by the evening—he went away, and returned in the afternoon, and said he had not been able to get a room, and I said if we could not get a room, we must sleep at a coffee shop.
Hahn. Q. What was done in the coffee shop? A. I saw Hahn give some money to Bahmer, but how much I do not know—on Sunday Bahmer came again, and he took a pen and ink, and wrote a letter, and he told Hahn to take that letter to the housekeeper.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you known Hahn? A. Since Oct.—I came to England on 25th Oct.—I did not know him in Germany—we have only been living together since a few weeks.
(Worf and Bahmer received good characters.)
DE GRUYTER— GUILTY. of Receiving. — Four Years Penal Servitude.
HAHN— GUILTY. of Receiving. — Confined Eighteen Months.
WORF— GUILTY. of Receiving.
BAHMER— GUILTY. of Stealing. — Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Six Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutrix. — Confined Three Months.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, June 17th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Seventh Jury.
705. WILLIAM SHIRLEY (44) , Stealing, on 20th Nov., 6 pairs of boots and 4 pair of shoes, value 6l.; also, on 26th Jan., 4 pairs of boots and 1 pair of shoes, value 3l. 5s.; also, on 1st May, 1 pair of shoes and 9 pairs of boots, value 5l.; the goods of James Green and others, his masters: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. TALFOURD SALTER. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY POWIS MARSHALL . I live at East Acton. On Sunday afternoon, 24th May, I turned out a black mare pony, about 13 1/2 hands high, on Old Oak Common; on Tuesday morning, 26th May, about 5 o'clock, I went on to the common and missed her—she was worth about 12l.—I have never seen her since—I do not know the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What sort of a pony was it? A. It was a little rusty in some places, and had a small white streak on the forehead; it had a white speck on the off eye, and I should say that it was blind with that eye—I had had it just about two months—I paid 7l. 10s. for it—it was young; the marks on the teeth were gone—it had a slight scratch on the nose—I was in the habit of putting it in draught, and there were marks of a collar across the breast—I never rode it with a saddle; I rode it from Uxbridge without one.
MR. T. SALTER. Q. Is the description my learned friend has given you of a pony exactly the description of the one you lost? A. Yes.
EDWARD OXLEY . On Monday evening, 25th May, I was on Old Oak Common, at a little before 8 o'clock, and saw the prisoner come by on Mr. Marshall's pony, which I had seen frequently before; it was of a rusty colour—I said to William Davis, "This is Mr. Marshall's pony"—the prisoner went about ten yards further, and said, "Where is your father?" I said that he was at home—I did not know the prisoner; he then went away on the pony—I know the prisoner by his right eye and by his face generally; I am sure he is the man.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What distance were you from him? A. About ten yards when he spoke to me—he was on the bridge by the side of the common—I have seen the pony feeding on the common a great many times—Mr. Marshall used to lop his ears a little; the near ear used to hang down a little more than the other—I have seen Mr. Marshall riding about in a cart with it—I have been near the pony, and stroked it down—I do not know whether there were any white marks on it—it was not blind; it could see very well where it was going to—I know the prisoner well—I saw him next on the Thursday afterwards, when the policeman had him—the policeman came to fetch me, and asked me whether I should know the man again; I said that I should—he asked me how I
should know him; I said, "By his face and by his right eye," as he is blind—he took me to where the man was in custody—he is the only blind man I saw that day at Brook Green—I said at once that he was the man.
MR. T. SALTER. Q. Did you tell the policeman that the man was blind before you saw him in Court? A. Yes—there were more than eight or ten horses on the common; it is a large common.
WILLIAM EDWARD DAVIS . I live at Old Oak Common. I was with Oxley on Monday evening, 25th May, on the bridge on the common, and saw the prisoner riding a rusty black pony, which I knew to be Mr. Marshall's, having seen it five or six times before—the prisoner asked Oxley whether his father was at home; he said, "Yes"—I afterwards saw the prisoner at the police court—there was no other pony on the common which could be mistaken for Mr. Marshall's.
Cross-examined. Q. Who told you to say that it was rusty? A. No one—the policeman asked me if I should know the prisoner, and I said that I should by his right eye—I had not heard the other boy say the same thing; I went first—I did not see any man who had anything the matter with his eye except the prisoner—he is the man—he was dressed as he is now.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say, "I am not the man"? A. He said, "I know nothing about it"—he was in a house—I saw nothing of the pony; it has never been found—I took the prisoner to Brook Green station—Davis was sent for, and said, "That is the man"—I took the prisoner from a general description I got of him on, I think, the 26th—I cannot say whether I saw other men who wanted an eye, between the 26th and 28th—Davis identified the prisoner directly, in my presence.
COURT. Q. Did the prisoner hear him say so? A. Yes, and I do not think he made any reply—he had previously told me that he knew nothing of it—he came next door to where I was living, to see some friends of his, and I was looking out for him for another offence, from information which I had received.
MR. T. SALTER. Q. From whom did you receive the description? A. From sergeant Mansell, of Acton; he is not here.
MARY ANN GREEN . I am a beer house keeper, of No. 5, York Road, Sale Street, Paddington. On Monday morning, between 6 and 7 o'clock, the prisoner came—he had a pony standing outside the door; it was black, or a very dark brown.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there many people in the house? A. Two or three, not more—it might be 7 o'clock, or after 7—I did not see him riding the pony.
WILLIAM BROWN . I was at Mrs. Green's, between 6 and 7 o'clock, and saw the prisoner come to the door—he asked me to hold a pony for him, and I did so—it was a dark brown pony, rather rusty—I cannot say whether there was a saddle or bridle to it; I held either a bridle or a halter—it was Monday evening, 25th May—the prisoner remained about five minutes—I do not know what became of him.
Cross-examined. Q. Was it not nearer 7 o'clock than 6? A. It was about half past 6 o'clock—I cannot say whether it was a mare or a gelding, or what the height was.
MR. TALFOURD SALTER. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE LEGGATT . I reside at Egham. On 30th Nov., 1856, I placed my mare in a field there, and missed her next morning—she was worth 20l. to me—I gave 6l. for her—I saw her again on 9th June. and have no doubt about her being mine—I had had her three years last Michaelmas—she was in a rough state when she was stolen.
THOMAS OSBORN . I am a greengrocer, of Park Street, Borough Market. The prisoner rode past my house on 1st Dec., in the middle of the day, and I hallooed out to him, and asked him if that horse was for sale; he said, "Yes," and that he had been to Russell Street, Bermondsey, with her, but she was not large enough—he said that he had come from Reading, that his father had been working the mare for it's keep, that it belonged to a poor man, and he was going to take it home, and he told him not to take it home, as he had got no work for it to do—I said, "If that horse will draw, I will try to buy it of you; what do you want for it?"—he said, "7l. "—I eventually gave him 3l. 10s. for it, and afterwards gave it up to Mr. Leggatt.
Cross-examined. Q. Was not that considerably under it's value? A. No—I know it was 1st Dec., because I had a lot of iron standing there on that day, and I have looked at my books—some man at Egham challenged me, and claimed the mare, but nobody would swear to it—I went on, and met Mr. Leggatt, who said, "It is mine;" I said, "It is mine, and I paid for it six months ago"—I did not tell him on that day the date on which I bought it; I looked at my books on the day he took it, and found that it was the 1st.
WILLIAM HENRY BIDDLECOMBE . (Police superintendent). I went to the House of Detention with Osborn, and he pointed out the prisoner from 140 to 150 others—on 30th Nov., about 4 o'clock, I was on horseback, riding from Egham, and saw the prisoner about a quarter of a mile from the field where the horse was lost from.
Prisoner. This witness has sworn false.
Prisoner's Defence. That is false; I gave 3l. for the mare, and sold it to Osborn for 3l. 10s., and if she turned out well he was to give me another half sovereign; I went to him again, and he said that he thought she was going to have the glanders; I bought her of Alfred Hitchcock.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, June 18th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron WATSON.; Sir JOHN MUSGROVE., Bart., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Mr. Baron Watson and the Third Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD SILENCE . I am a house painter, living at No. 28, Gifford Street, Caledonian Road. I occupy the ground floor there—the prisoner occupied the whole of the second floor of that house—on the morning of 7th April, about half past 2 o'clock, I was awoke by some noise—I got out of bed, and unlocked the door—I was in the dark—when I unlocked the door I heard Mr. Scott's voice—he said, "Mr. Silence, come up stairs"—I partly dressed myself, and went up stairs, and saw Mr. Scott and the prisoner together—I had no light—there was no light up stairs when I got up—Mr. Tripp said, "Mr. Silence, can you get a light?"—I went down stairs, and got one—it was not more than two or three minutes before I came up again with a light, and I gave it to Mr. Tripp—they were on the stairs during that time, within a stair or so of the top of the landing—they were both on the stairs; not on the same step, but one above the other—Mr. Tripp was above—that was their position when I took the light up—they were both quite dressed—before I gave Mr. Tripp the light he unlocked the front door, on the second floor—it was his own door—I passed Mr. Scott on the stairs—Mr. Tripp was in the room when I gave him the light—I went into the room, and gave it to him—I had heard a noise before that, but I could not say what they said—it was a loud talking—I was in bed when I heard it—I did not hear any loud talking after that—it might have been quarrelling, or talking, I cannot say; I could not understand a word that was said—there were two flights of stairs between my room on the ground floor and the room in which Mr. Tripp lived—when I gave Mr. Tripp the light he lit his candle, and turned round and picked up the sword, and stabbed Mr. Scott—I cannot say whether the sword lay on the table or on a box; there were a lot of things lying about the room—I cannot exactly say where he took it from—it was lying about with other things—I believe this (produced) is the sword; it was one very much like that—I cannot say whether it had any sheath on it at the time he took it up—when he picked up the sword he stabbed Mr. Scott—he was in the room when he picked up the sword—Mr. Scott was standing just outside the door at that time—he was about two or three steps from Mr. Scott when he picked up the sword—I was between them—he had to pass me to get to Mr. Scott—he stabbed him in the left side, between the ribs and the hips—Mr. Scott was then standing still, in the attitude of reading a paper—it was a small bill; I cannot say what it was; I saw it afterwards—when he was stabbed he staggered back against the hand rail, and said, "I am stabbed"—the prisoner made another strike at him, which I warded off by holding my hand up—I assisted him down stairs, and when he was in the passage he asked me to take him to the doctor's; I did so—I left Tripp up stairs—I did not see him again after that till I saw him at the station house—I did not say anything to him at the station—I had no conversation with him at all—I never had any conversation with him since about the reason of Mr. Scott coming to the house—I have known him in that house for very nearly twelve months—he was in the habit of coming home at all hours of the night—Mr. Scott was the landlord of the house—he had a latch key, and could come in at all times.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Was that the usual time for Mr. Scott to come in? A. I never saw him there at that time before—he did not live in the house—his age was somewhere about thirty-three—he was a tall, powerful man—I never saw him very violent; I never had very much conversation with him; I never knew much of him—the prisoner is about sixty-three years of age—I have known him somewhere about twelve
months—I have heard that he has been in Mr. Cubitt's employment, and that he was in receipt of a pension from him—I think the prisoner is of rather an excitable temperament when under the influence of drink, and is rather eccentric in his habits—I do not know much of him; I saw him come out and in; he was generally very civil, and so on—he did not appear to me to be at all malicious, only when under the influence of drink he was rather abusive, but nothing more—I never knew that he had any animosity against Scott—I have never heard either from Scott or from him that there was the slightest feeling in the case—I was asleep at first when this occurred, it awoke me—I am sure it was Mr. Scott's voice that spoke to me upon opening the door—I have seen Mr. Scott when I have paid my rent—I could easily know his voice, being a Scotchman—I am not sure whether both of them called—I should say, from the voice, they were on the staircase where I found them, when they called—after I found them at the top of the stairs, Tripp went into his room, and Scott immediately followed him to the door—Scott took out the paper as soon as I took the light—he seemed in the attitude of reading—it was something like a distress paper.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you hear either of them go up stairs? A. No; the first thing I heard was the talking—the front room which Tripp went into was the room in which he slept—the back room was used for lumber—I do not think Tripp had been drinking; he might have had something, but I do not think he was tipsy—Mr. Scott had nothing in his hand except the paper—he did not attempt to strike the prisoner, or to interfere with him in any way, from the time I came up until the blow was struck with the sword; he stood reading the paper—that was all I saw—it was about half past 2 o'clock in the morning.
COURT. Q. How long did all this take, from the time you went down for the candle till the stab took place? A. I do not think more than six or seven minutes—it took place almost instantaneously—the prisoner did not appear in a very excited state when he took the light, and took up the sword—not a word passed between them after I got up.
BENJAMIN HILL . (Policeman, N 159). On 7th April, about 3 o'clock in the morning, in consequence of information that I received, I went to No. 28, Gifford Street, Caledonian Road—I went to the front room on the second floor—I knocked at that door—some person inside asked who was there—I replied, "Police"—he said, "Open the door; my door is not locked; come in"—I went into the room, and found the prisoner there alone—he was sitting in a chair, smoking a pipe of tobacco, by the side of the fireplace—there was a lighted candle in the room, but no fire—I noticed the sword standing upright against the wall, close by his side—it was sheathed as it is now—I asked him what disturbance had taken place between him and Mr. Scott—he told me that Mr. Scott was his landlord, and that he owed him some rent—he said that he came at a very unseasonable hour; that he told Mr. Scott if he would come again on Saturday he would pay him; that Scott said he would not wait till then—he said, "Mr. Scott tried to force his way into my room; I tried to push him out; he would not go out; I tried to persuade him to go out, but he would not; I then stabbed him"—I asked him what he stabbed him with—he said, "With a cutlass; and I hope I have gave him his death wound; if it had not been for Mr. Silence, I would have cut his head off"—he asked me what I was going to do with him, if I was going to lock him up—I told him I merely came to speak to him; I told him I wanted him to go with me to see Mr. Scott—he said he would go—I said
that to get him quietly out of the room—there was another officer standing on the landing—he did not come out of the room; he kept his seat; he asked me how Mr. Scott was, if he was hurt much—I told him I believed he was hurt very much—he asked me if he was dead—I told him, no, I believed he was not dead—he said, "I am sorry for that; I am sorry I have not given him his death wound"—he repeated that several times—he asked me several times if he was in my custody, and I would not satisfy him until I had secured the cutlass, and also this knife, which was lying on the table—I seized them, and then I told him he was in my custody, and must go to the station house—when I got to the station house I examined the cutlass; I found marks of blood on it; I went back to his lodgings, and found some marks of blood on the stairs, but none in the room—he was not drunk—I had seen him the night before, about half past 11 or 12 o'clock—he was standing at the corner of Gifford Street, Caledonian Road, talking to Mr. Scott; they were talking and jangling together—they were talking angrily; I did not hear any threats made use of—I did not hear anything that was said—I judged from their tone they were quarrelling about something—I left them there—it was on my beat—I returned there in course of my beat—the prisoner was then gone—I saw Mr. Scott again about 2 o'clock, in that street, by himself—he made an inquiry of me—I did not see Mr. Scott after that, till after this occurred, when I went to his residence.
Cross-examined. Q. You saw Scott again, you say, at 2 o'clock in the morning? A. Yes—he was standing in Gifford Street alone at that time, about twenty yards from the house where I saw the prisoner—I had some conversation with him at that time—he asked me if I had seen the old vagabond that was talking to him—I said, "Yes"—he said, "He is one of my lodgers, and he owes me some rent"—he said he intended to wait till he came home, and wait there till the morning, and then put the brokers in for his rent—that was about three quarters of an hour before I heard the alarm of "Murder!"—the other time that I saw Scott and the prisoner together was about half past 11 or 12 o'clock; I did not notice the time exactly—I had been on that beat, but he had been home, I believe; I did not see him about there all the time—they were wrangling together about half past 12 o'clock—they did not appear to be excited, either of them, particularly—they were both talking together—I did not know Tripp before—he might have had a little to drink; he was not drunk—I did not see Mr. Scott after he was stabbed—Tripp did not speak to me at any time that evening about Scott obstructing or molesting him.
GEORGE BECKLEY . (Police sergeant, N 12). I was at the station house on the morning of 7th April, about a quarter to 4 o'clock, when the prisoner was brought in in custody by Hill; he stated that the prisoner was charged with stabbing Mr. Scott in the left side with a sword—I then inquired of the constable where Mr. Scott was—he informed me that he was taken by another constable to a hospital—the prisoner immediately said, "Oh! I did it"—I told him it was my duty to caution him that anything he might say would be noticed, and might be used in evidence against him—he made no reply to that—he afterwards said that, had it not been for a lodger interfering, he would have given him a right one and a left one, that there would be no occasion for our taking him to the hospital; that he was justified in doing it; that Mr. Scott had no right to come at that unseasonable hour for his rent—the witness Silence then came in to the station, when the prisoner turned towards him, and said, "If it had not been for your interference, I would soon have made a finish of him"—I then inquired as to the nature of
the wound that Mr. Scott had received, of the constable who had taken Mr. Scott to the surgeon—I was told that it was an inch and a quarter deep—the prisoner immediately made answer, and said, "I wish it had been six inches deep."
GEORGE WILLIS . I live at Bemmerton Street, Caledonian Road. I am a house agent by trade—I know Mr. Scott and the prisoner—I saw the prisoner on 3rd April last, at his residence, in Gifford Street—he had some conversation with me about a distress that had been put on his goods—I was in the parlour of Mr. Silence; I had called in that morning, and while I was there Mr. Tripp came down stairs, and asked Mrs. Silence to allow him to eat his chocolate there—I said, "Good morning, Mr. Tripp"—he said, "Good morning"—he asked me if I had seen or heard anything of Scott; I said, "No, nothing particular"—he said, "Why, you know how he served me last time by sending the brokers in; it was the means of driving me to a very great expense, which I have not forgotten yet"—"Oh," I said, "that is passed over and gone, think no more about it, Mr. Tripp"—he said, "I cannot pass it over like that; it cost me 30l. or 40l. in getting the brokers out, and I have not forgotten it yet"—I said, "I should think no more about it if I were you, for when landlords and tenants disagree, they are much better apart;" and I said, "If I were you I would leave, and have no more to do with it"—he said, "Oh, no, I shan't leave till I like; he shan't do as he likes with me again"—I said, "You appear to work yourself up in a state of excitement, and I really think if I were you I would think no more of it, and go away"—he repeated again, "No, I won't go till I like," or something like that; and I believe I got up, and left—he said, "Well, if he attempts to serve me so again, I will serve them both out, and give them something that they shan't forget," or something like that; I suppose he meant the broker as well—I said to him then, "You seem very much excited and out of temper, and therefore you hardly know what you do say, perhaps; I should think no more of it if I were you; and to prevent all further dispute and trouble between you, you had better leave; I should recommend you to do so"—he merely replied, "I shan't leave till I like; they won't do as they like with me again"—I have seen him since he has been in prison—I knew him through living at the house; I lodged there—I informed him, the same morning when I saw him in prison, of the lamentable death of Mr. Scott—I went down for that express purpose—he said he was very sorry to hear that he was dead; "I did not think," he said, "that he would have died under it, for I did not think I had pricked him so sharp"—I did not see Mr. Scott after he was wounded.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you say Mr. Silence was there during that that time? A. No, Mrs. Silence was—Mr. Tripp asked Mrs. Silence to allow him to eat his chocolate there—she was not there during the whole of this conversation—she went into the back room while we were together; she was backwards and forwards—she might have heard a part of the conversation about the brokers, or she might not—after a few minutes she was attending to something in the back room, as she usually does in the morning—I think the distress took place in Nov.—he began the subject himself—five or six months had passed over, but he never forgot it—he told me that he had not forgotten it—he commenced about whether I had seen or heard of Scott lately; and then he repeated the way he had been served, putting him to expense, and so on, with the last distress—I have known the prisoner for some time—I should say he is very eccentric—he
would come home at all hours of the night—I do not think he is given to drink much; he generally keeps late hours, and is very singular in his habits—I have heard him talking night after night when he came home; he would go talking to himself up stairs—unless he is provoked, I think he is a peaceable man; but when excited and out of temper, he is very violent—Scott was a fine strong, powerful man; he was rather irritable; he was not a drunkard, he would like a glass, not out of the way; he used to spend his evenings amongst tradesmen, and so on—I think he could drink a great deal.
HORATIO SILIFANT . I am a surgeon, at No. 1, Thornhill Square, Islington; that is not far from Gifford Street. On the morning of 1st April Scott was brought to my place between 3 o'clock and half past—I had known him slightly, living in the neighbourhood—I had him taken into my room, and removed his trowsers and belt; I then found a severe penetrating wound in the side, about an inch above the hip bone; it was bleeding somewhat freely—he complained of being sick and in great pain—I sent him home in a cab, and followed him immediately—I had him put to bed, and then made a more perfect examination of the wound—I could not say positively at that time that it had penetrated the bowels, but from symptoms that came on shortly afterwards I suspected it must have done so—I saw him every hour during the day, perhaps oftener—he gradually became worse—he became delirious a very short time after I first saw him, and died about half past 1 o'clock on Wednesday morning, the 8th—I afterwards made a post mortem examination—I found that the weapon had penetrated two portions of the small bowel, one lying next to the other—the sword had passed completely through one, and penetrated the one lying next it—such an instrument as this sword would cause such a wound—I have no doubt that wound was the cause of death.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you ask Scott who had done it? A. Yes, on his being brought to my house, I said, "Mr. Scott, who has done this?"—he said, "An old villain of the name of Tripp"—he said nothing more—I think he did say something about having gone there for rent, but I cannot tax my memory positively.
EDWARD LITTLEFIELD . (examined by MR. METCALFE.). I took Scott to Mr. Sillifant's house—as we were going, he told me that he met Tripp in the Caledonian Road that morning, and asked him for his rent; that Tripp told him if he would go to his house when he came home, he would pay him; that he went, and waited there till his return, and when he came home he followed him up stairs; that he heard him ask Mr. Silence for a light, and when the light was produced, he began abusing him (Scott), and called him a rogue and a thief; and as soon as the light was produced, he deliberately went into the room, and brought out the sword, and stabbed him.
HENRY DOWLING . I am a broker. I put in a distress on the prisoner's furniture on 19th Nov. last, at the instance of Mr. Scott, for money due to him—the things were sold to make up the money—I sold them myself, at the prisoner's own request.
Cross-examined. Q. He made use of no threats whatever to Scott then, did he? A. No—I have known him more than seventeen years—I did not know him when he was in the service of Mr. Alderman Cubitt—I do not, of my own knowledge, know that he has a pension from Mr. Cubitt—I have been led to consider that he has received something from there, for when I made a distress some time before he said he had always money there,
and he could pay his rent when demanded—his habits have at times been eccentric—I do not know anything about his property.
GUILTY. of Manslaughter. — Eight Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
GIDEON CROCKER . (Police sergeant, G 9). On Saturday morning, 6th June, about 20 minutes past 2 o'clock, I was on duty in the Haymarket, and saw the prisoner in company with another man—I had received information with respect to a burglary that had been committed—I did not know the prisoner sufficiently to justify me in apprehending him, but I had information that led me to believe that he was connected with that burglary—I was standing at the corner of Panton Street, they passed me down the Haymarket, and I believe went into a public house—I immediately sent to the station, and Murrell, another constable, came—we went into the public house, and not finding them there, we came out and found them in the Haymarket, standing with three females, under a shop front, about three doors from the corner of James Street, close underneath the shutters of the house—Murrell and I walked down the Haymarket, and the prisoner and his male companion immediately made round the corner of James Street, and went along James Street—I suppose they had recognised us—after they got round the corner they separated—I followed the prisoner; when he had gone some distance he suddenly turned round and faced me, at the same time having both hands in his pocket—I came up to him, and said that he must go with me, that he was wanted for an attempt at burglary—Murrell at the same time came up, and said, "That is the man"—he took hold of him on one side, and I on the other, and walked along James Street—when we had got about half way along James Street, I asked Murrell where the other man was—he said he did not know—I said, "Then you secure this one, and I will go and look for him"—I then left them, Murrell having hold of the prisoner, and went towards the Haymarket; I had scarcely reached the Haymarket before I heard the report of firearms, and a call for assistance—I immediately turned back, and saw Murrell having hold of the prisoner by the left arm, and four females surrounding him—just as I got up to him, Murrell said, "For God's sake, lay hold of him, he has shot me"—a second pistol was then fired—I saw the prisoner's right arm up, and the smoke appeared to come from the direction where he stood—I got in at him as quickly as I could between the women, and secured him by the other arm—I took him to the station and searched him—I found on him this knife, eleven gun caps, forty-five small shot, and five pebbles, four that fit the pistol, and one that will not—Murrell had the pistol, and took it to the station—I also found on the prisoner two boxes of lucifer matches, a ramrod that fits the pistol, and 10s. 11 1/2 d. in money—the charge was read over to him, he made no reply.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Can you tell at all in what direction the second pistol was fired? A. Yes; I should say by the appearance that it was directed at me; I judge so from the position in which the prisoner stood, and the way in which he lifted his right arm up, that it was meant for me as I came up; I was about three yards from the prisoner, and the four women were between me and him and Murrell, he must have fired over their heads; he was rather above me, because he was on the pavement and I was on the carriage way—there were no other persons round at that
moment, to my recollection; I did not see any, I was intent on Murrell, seeing the state he was in, I did not look round—I do not know who was behind me—the other man who had been with the prisoner was gone, he was not behind the women—he could not have been in the street or I should have seen and secured him—I did not see anybody but Murrell, the prisoner, and the four women at the moment the pistol was fired—others came up immediately afterward, other constables came up immediately—I have no doubt that the pistol was fired by the prisoner's hand, from the direction of the smoke—I could not undertake to swear positively that it was fired by him, but the smoke came from the direction of his hand, and I saw his hand up at the same time—I should judge that three of the women were the same that I had seen with the prisoner and his companions in the Hay-market, by their dress and appearance, but I had not the opportunity of seeing their faces—Murrell had hold of the prisoner's left arm, I believe, getting the pistol away from him—I could not say exactly what they were doing, I could not say they were struggling—the prisoner's back was towards the railings, and Murrell was facing him.
WILLIAM MURRELL . (Policeman, C 80). I was on duty at the station, on Saturday, 6th June; in consequence of a message that was brought there, I went to the Haymarket, and found sergeant Crocker at the corner of Panton Street—I was in my police uniform, and so was Crocker—we went into a public house to see if the prisoner was there; he was not—we waited a few minutes outside the public house door, and we then saw the prisoner in company with another man at the corner of James Street; we went down towards them, Crocker went first—the two men separated, and ran away up James Street, towards Leicester Square—they took different routes Crocker went after the prisoner, springing his rattle, and I followed him; I observed Crocker come up with him—the prisoner turned round and faced him deliberately, when I was within two or three yards of them—I told Crocker, in the prisoner's hearing, that he was the man—I had been looking for him before; for some reason I had I thought it proper that he should be apprehended—Crocker and I secured him, and walked back down Panton Street, into James Street, the same direction in which we had followed the prisoner—when we got into James Street, Crocker said, "Where is the other man?"—I said, "I do not know;" the other man had entirely disappeared then—Crocker said, "You take charge of the prisoner, and I will see if I can find him;" he left me with the prisoner in James Street—as soon as Crocker had left, the prisoner asked me what he wanted him for, I told him he had better ask him—we walked about two paces further, when he fired the contents of this pistol into my face—I did not observe where he took the pistol from—I had him by the right sleeve, and he put his hand up to my face—it was with his left hand that he fired it; it was close to my face when he fired it, I should say not further than three or four inches, if so far—I was wounded in the mouth—I retained my hold of him, wrenched the pistol from his hand, and called for assistance—Crocker came up, and on his coming up the prisoner fired a second pistol at him—Crocker was then about two or three yards off, coming towards me from the Haymarket—the prisoner fired the second pistol with his right hand—I did not see any one near at that time—I believe there were some women, they did not interfere—this pistol I wrenched out of his left hand—I could not find the other pistol, and I never have found it—I was taken in a cab to the hospital—there was a pebble in my face that had been fired from the pistol; it was cut out, it had gone through to the jaw.
Cross-examined. Q. It was a marble, was it not? A. No; a stone, the surgeon has it—I believe it took a direction a little sideways, but I cannot say exactly—I could not tell whether the pistol was pointed right at me or sideways—I was not struggling with the prisoner before he fired, he was walking very quietly, he never resisted the least till he fired—I did not notice what he was doing until he actually fired—when he fired the second pistol I had got him in custody, and was struggling with him.
AUGUSTUS OLIVER APLIN . I am house surgeon at Charing Cross Hospital. On the morning of 6th June, Murrell was brought there about 3 o'clock—I found a lacerated wound on the left side of the chin, about a quarter of an inch in circumference—it was not bleeding then, but evidently had been—I probed the wound and discovered a foreign body impacted in the soft parts round the chin—this is the pebble (produced), it reached the bone—it had evidently been stopped in its progress by the bone—the wound in itself was not dangerous, through the stone not having gone farther, and also from the impulsive force not having been sufficient to injure the jaw; I suppose there was not sufficient gunpowder put in—it was directed inwards, and to the right side; the chances are, if it had gone in straight it would have turned towards the neck, towards the large arteries; it is a great Providence that it did not do so.
Cross-examined. Q. Judging from what you saw, was not the pistol, in all probability, fired sideways? A. I should think it had not been directed straight to the man; I should think it had been fired sideways.
GUILTY. on the Second Count. — Transported for Life.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS ROBINSON . I live at No. 15, Church Way, New Road, St. Pancras. On Sunday morning, 17th May, between 9 and 10 o'clock, I sent my son on an errand—he had not been gone a minute or so before I heard somebody say, "There is two upon one, it is not fair," or something of that sort—I went out, and saw two boys fighting my boy, and just as I got up to the boys the prisoner's wife was there, and she turned away—I separated them, and sent my boy away about his business—I then went and spoke to a neighbour, named Norman—I still kept my eye on the prisoner's shop, for I had a mistrust for some time past that he intended to do me some injury—I could not see him, and I went past, and when I got opposite his door he threw a quart tin pannikin of vitriol at me, and said, "Take that, you old b—, that will warm you."—(The witness, who appeared in a very weak state, here became very unwell.)
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. I believe your son had been quarrelling before this day? A. Not that I know of; I am very little at home, and when I am at home I am at work—this being Sunday morning I should say the prisoner was sober, he spoke so—I have known him for some time, unfortunately—I believe he is at times in the habit of getting drunk.
Q. Have you ever been charged with an assault upon him? A. I believe he has managed that many times, for he can always get plenty to swear anything he asks them for a glass of gin—he is a low man, and keeps low company—I have never been fined for committing an assault upon him, but he has, and threw a basket of fire over my little girl, and set fire to her—I believe he managed to get me fined 1l. for an assault upon him; there
has been plenty of false swearing, by a public house lot—to the best of my recollection, I think it was inquired into before the Magistrate—I cannot answer whether I was fined 1l., for I do not recollect; I believe I was fined something—I cannot answer whether that has happened more than once, I think not—I have always been a good neighbour towards the prisoner—on the Saturday night previous to this, as I stood at my door, he asked me to go and drink with him—I said, "No, John, thank you, I have had my allowance for to-night"—he said, "Yes, and a good job for you, you old b—that you do not come"—the prisoner's wife was there when I went up to the boys—she and I did not have any quarrel, not a word—there were other persons there beside his wife—I know a person named Baldwin—I believe I saw him, but it was as much as I did—I do not know the prisoner's eldest son, John Brett—I will swear I did not strike the prisoner's wife that morning—I never lifted my hand to a woman.
ELIZA ROBINSON . I am the prosecutor's wife. On Sunday morning, 17th May, I sent my son on an errand—my husband went out to separate him and two boys—I saw the prisoner standing at his door, with a quart tin pot in his hand, and as my husband returned he threw the contents of the tin pot over his head and face, saying, "Take that, you old b—, that will warm you"—he repeated that more than once—my husband at first thought it was water, till he had gone a few paces, and then he said, "Oh, Eliza, I am burning! take me to the hospital"—it burnt his clothes, and also burnt my hand and arm—he was taken to University College Hospital.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know what the prisoner is? A. He keeps a broker's shop—he would not require vitriol to use in his business; he makes bedsteads—I saw the quarrel between the boys—I saw the prisoner's wife come and take my boy by the hair of his head, and strike him in the face—that was the reason of my calling my husband to separate them.
ISABELLA MILLS . I live opposite the prisoner. On this Sunday morning I heard the quarrelling between the boys—I did not see what happened after that, but I heard Mr. Robinson's footsteps, and I heard Mr. Brett say, "I will warm you, you old b—," and he instantly threw a something, and a portion of it came over me, and over some clothes hanging up behind me, and burnt them dreadfully.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner's wife? A. I saw her go towards the boys, and I went and took her two children from the scuffle, and I saw her and her brother in a quarrel with her son and the prosecutor's son; I cannot say that I saw a blow struck.
THOMAS TURNER . (Policeman, S 365). I took the prisoner into custody on the Sunday morning—he said he hoped what he had thrown over the old b—would kill him—he said that both in going to the station and afterwards—I produce the clothes that the prosecutor was wearing.
Cross-examined. Q. About what time was it that you took the prisoner? A. About 10 o'clock—he was perfectly sober—I only know him by sight.
THOMAS VINCENT JACKSON . I am house surgeon at University College Hospital. On Sunday, 17th May, I saw Robinson there, about a quarter to 11 o'clock—his clothes were almost entirely covered with vitriol—the left side of his neck and face was almost charred, in some places the skin was quite black—he was not able to speak or to answer any question for an hour or two, he was in a state of collapse—I attended carefully to him, and hope he is now getting on—he has been under my care ever since.
(MR. RIBTON. stated that he could not resist a conviction, but catted witnesses
to the prisoner's good character; and also to show that he had the vitriol on his premises for use in his trade.)
GUILTY .— Transported for Fifteen Years.
PLEADED GUILTY .
(The prisoner received a good character.)— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. WAY. conducted the Prosecution.
HARRIET BISHOP . I live at No. 9, Ashby Street, St. Pancras. The prisoner is my husband—on the evening of 3rd June, between 6 and 7 o'clock, he came home dreadfully drunk—I had been out selling some fire ornaments, to help to get a living, for he had been out of work for a fortnight—I had brought home some coals in my apron, and had just lighted my fire, and put my kettle on, when he came in—he said, "I have got drunk, you b—, on purpose to do for you;" and with that he gave me a blow over the eye, and broke what things I had on the mantel shelf with the blow—they belonged to my poor father, who lies in St. Pancras workhouse—there was a carved eagle hanging up over the shelf, and I said, "You shall not break this," and I put it under my right arm—he turned to the cupboard, and seized a knife, and seized me by the left hand—I put up my right arm to protect my throat or face, and received the stab on the back of my hand, and the eagle fell, and its wings were broken—I went out, and fell on the landing—at the time he did this, he caught me by the frock, and said, "I have got drunk on purpose to do for you to-day"—he said that a second time; it was before I received the wound—I was rather confused with the blow that he gave me over the eye, and am not quite sure what he did say—he seized me by the hair of my head, and tore my clothes.
Prisoner. I went home on 3rd June very drunk, and asked my wife where she had been; she made use of very bad language, and I said, "You have been out along with Mr. Cox again;" that is a man that she is keeping company with. Witness. I did not use bad language to him; I have seen the man Cox once—he did not say to me what he states.
JAMES SMELLIE . I am a surgeon, in Judd-place, St. Pancras. I saw the prosecutrix on the evening of 3rd June, about 9 o'clock, at the police station—I examined her arm, and found three incisions on the back of the hand, extending to the thumb, about two inches in length, and about a quarter of an inch deep—it is possible that it might cause permanent injury, but not very probable—the effect is want of power in the muscles of the thumb—such a knife as this (produced) would cause such a wound—it must have been used with a good deal of violence—she could not have done it herself.
SAMUEL ANDREWS . (Policeman, S 86). I took the prisoner into custody—I received this knife from the prosecutrix—the handle was covered with blood, and there was a small quantity of blood on the prisoner's hand—there was a large quantity of blood on the floor where the woman was lying.
JOHH MULVANY . (Police sergeant, S 86). When the prisoner was brought to the station I entered the charge—he said to his wife, "I will send you and your b——old father to sleep for this job"—he was drunk.
Prisoner's Defence. I am very sorry it has happened; we have been married fourteen years, to my sorrow; wherever I am at work this woman comes and annoys me; I have two cuts on my hand where she struck me
with a knife; I had only been home a month, and a fortnight out of that was out of work; the night this happened I was very drunk; I said to her, "You have been out along with this Cox at the Wheatsheaf again;" she made me a bad answer, and flew to the cupboard, and got this knife, and we had a struggle together; after this happened she lighted the fire, and put on the kettle, and it was three quarters of an hour before the policeman came, and I was sitting, smoking my pipe; I went along with him; I have been obliged to walk through the country over and over again through this woman, and no longer ago than last Thursday she said she would never sleep till she saw me out of the country.
GUILTY. of unlawfully Wounding. — Confined Eighteen Months.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, June 18th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
714. HENRY SIMPSON (26) and HENRY WILLIAMS (22) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of James Spencely, and stealing 3 towels and 1 steel, value 4s.; his property: and 3 aprons, value 1s. 6d.; the goods of Martha Saunders: to which
SIMPSON PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE WOODWARD . (Policeman, E 53). On Monday, 18th May, I was on duty in Goodge Street at a quarter past 1 o'clock in the morning—I heard a noise, and went to No. 24—I saw the iron grating raised up, and Simpson came up the grating—I proceeded to apprehend him; he resisted me, and struck me with a crowbar on the head and in the face—I got the wounds dressed, and went to the house; I found some persons had entered through the iron grating, and there were marks of violence on the kitchen door—I compared the crowbar with the marks, and it corresponded exactly—I found these articles produced on the kitchen table.
COURT. Q. Did you go into the house first? A. No, the other constables were in the house before I got back there.
WILLIAM PERRY . (Policeman, E 142). At half past 1 o'clock that morning I was in Foley Street—I heard an alarm, and went and found Williams in custody—I went to No. 24, Goodge Street, with three other constables—we knocked up Mr. Spencely—I remained in the passage; four constables went in, and no other persons—three constables went down into the kitchen, and while I was in the passage Williams came down stairs from the first floor—I asked him if he belonged to the house; he said, "Yes"—Mr. Spencely's shopman said he did not—I detained him—he was searched, and 8d. and some lucifers were found on him.
Williams. Q. Was the hall door shut? A. Yes—I did not knock at the door, some one else did—Mr. Spencely came to the door, opened it, and let us in—three went in besides myself; two in plain clothes, and two in uniform—I was the List to go in—Mr. Spencely is not here.
PAUL DODWELL . I am shopman to Mr. James Spencely, of No. 24, Goodge Street. On the morning of 18th May I was knocked up about a quarter past 1 o'clock by Mr. Spencely; he went down to open the door—I followed him with merely my trowsers on—I then went up to finish dressing myself—I was not present when the policemen were admitted—the last witness was at the bottom of the stairs—while I was dressing myself, Mr. Spencely called, "Bring a light with you"—I brought a light down, and as I got to the landing of the first floor I saw Williams standing close to the door—I said, "What do you do here?"—he said, "I came in with the police"—I said, "Come down, and we will see about that"—he came down, and I said to the policeman, "Do you know anything about this man?"—he said, "No, I don't"—the policeman took him.
Williams. Q. Did you come down stairs? A. Yes, without a light—there was nobody else with me—the hall door was not opened—Mr. Spencely opened the street door I suppose—I could not see anybody on the stairs when I came down the first time in the dark—the staircase is wide enough to admit two persons, and the recess was large enough for you to stand up in without my seeing you—you said to me that you came in with the policeman, and you said to the policeman that you belonged to the house—you stood in the passage with him, and the other officers came up.
Williams to WILLIAM PERRY. Q. Did I say anything to you? A. You told me you belonged to the house, and when the other constables came up, you said you came in with us.
MARTHA SAUNDERS . I am in the service of Mr. Spencely. I fastened the kitchen door on the night of 17th May—this property produced is my master's—these two articles were in a cupboard—this steel was in another cupboard—these two aprons are mine.
Williams's Defence. I was going home at a quarter past 1 o'clock, and heard a cry of "Murder!"—I saw twenty or thirty people round Mr. Spencely's door; we stopped there upwards of ten minutes; when the door was open, two policemen and two civilians went in, and I went with them; one constable stood at the landing, the other three went down; while I was on the stairs, Mr. Spencely's assistant came down; he said to me, "What do you do here?" I said, "There are some burglars in the house, I came in with the officers;" I went down, and saw the officer; he said, "What do you do here?" I said, "I came in with the officer;" he said, "You said just now that you belonged to the house;" I said, "No;" Mr. Spencely came and said, "Where do you come from?" I said, "I came in with the police;" the officer then took me; there were only two matches found on me; I am innocent of the charge laid against me.
Simpson. The policeman struck me; I struck in my own defence.
WILLIAMS— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
(The prisoner PLEADED GUILTY. to the 2nd Count.)
GUILTY .*— Four Years Penal Servitude.
HENRY CLARK . I am servant to Mr. John Nussey, of No. 4, Cleveland Row. On 4th May I was in bed, and about 1 o'clock in the morning I heard a noise—I sat up in bed to listen, and saw the prisoner come round the counter, in the surgery; he had a light—I asked what he wanted there—there was no answer, but the light was put out—I got up, and went to the outer surgery door—I had fastened the doors the night before at a few minutes after 11 o'clock.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not come to the station and pick out a person with carroty hair, and say that that was the person? A. No, not the person I saw in the surgery—I did not see you and say I did not know you.
COURT. Q. When did you see him? A. About a week afterwards, with other persons—I went to the station on Sunday, but did not point him out then—I did on Monday.
Prisoner. He picked out another person as being the person he saw, and the next morning he came and said that he did not know that person, but he knew me.
WILLIAM GLASS . (Police sergeant, C 3). On Monday, 4th May, I was called to the prosecutor's house, between 1 and 2 o'clock—I examined the premises, and saw footmarks on the window ledge, waterspout, wall, and roof—the skylight had been forced—persons had got down that way, and a small desk, standing on the counter under the skylight, was broken.
GIDEON CROCKER . (Police sergeant, C 9). On 4th May, about 2 o'clock in the morning, I saw the prisoner, in company with three others, in Compton Street—I had two officers with me, and I called on them to seize one each—I seized Donovan, whom the prisoner was arm in arm with—I found on Donovan this jemmy—it fits the marks on the prosecutor's premises—Donovan was summarily convicted.
NOT GUILTY .
JOHN GOSS . I reside in Heathfield Street, Notting Dale, Kensington. On 1st June I went out of my house—I double locked the door, and every door and window was fast—I went to the King's Arms—I returned about 20 minutes before 4 o'clock—I heard a noise in my house—I went to the King's Arms, got a young man, and I went back with him—I unlocked the door, got in, and found the two prisoners in the bed room—I asked them how they came there—they said they had been asked in—I said, "Who by?"—they said, "By a friend"—this handkerchief is mine, I had left it on the bed—this chisel was not there when I left the house; it was there when I came back.
THOMAS LAWS . The last witness came, and asked me to go to his house—I went in with him, and found the two prisoners up stairs in the bed room—I asked what they did there—they said that a friend asked them to supper, and had just gone out, and would be back presently.
HENRY EADES . (Policeman, T 42). I was called on—I found the two prisoners in the bed room; I searched them, and on Clayton I found this pocket handkerchief, which the prosecutor claims—I took the prisoners into custody; they were very violent—on the floor of the room I found this chisel—I compared it with the marks on the door post—the bolt of the lock had been forced back, and the door opened.
Clayton's Defence. We met a man, and he asked if we were out of employ; we told him yes, and he asked if we would go home, and he would give us a bit of supper; he told us to sit down, and he went for some beer, and the prosecutor came and took us into custody.
GUILTY . *— Confined Two Years each.
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, June 18th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. SALOMONS.; Mr. Ald. EAGLETON.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.
718. JOHN HILLS (30) , Stealing, on 18th May, 1 metal cramp, value 1l.; the goods of Thomas Pelton: also, 1 cramp, value 1l.; the goods of Andrew Eley and another: also, 1 cramp, value 40s.; the goods of Alexander Telfer: also, 1 cramp, value 14s.; the goods of John Brewer: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
OLIVER TOMLINS . I am a porter, living at Collier's Row, Doctor's Commons. On the night of 12th May, between 12 and 1 o'clock, I was in Goswell Street, near the Church, on my way home from a club meeting in Oxford Street, Hoxton—I met the prisoners, and the female spoke to me, and used indecent language—I turned round, and Merrick knocked me down and gave me two black eyes—he fell with me on the ground, and took my watch from my waistcoat pocket; I missed it before he got off me, and said, "He has taken my watch away"—I had seen it safe about five minutes before—he ran across the road, and I picked up my cap and followed him, but lost sight of him—the woman ran along with him, and I lost sight of her—I got a policeman, and he took me to Little Arthur Street—I saw the prisoners there together, and said, "That is the man who has taken my watch"—I was a little the worse for liquor—I am able to say positively that Merrick is the man.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What time were you at this club? A. I cannot exactly say—it is a clothes club—I did not get jolly; I was a little the worse for liquor—Mr. Laney had been with me at the club; he was perfectly sober—we were all drinking at the club—there was not a fight going on in the street—there were not several people standing close to the place where I was knocked down, and scuffling and talking together—this was all the work of a moment; he took my watch, and made off as quickly as he could—we left the club at about half past 11 o'clock—we had stopped on the road, and went into another public house, but my friend had nothing—I cannot tell where that public house was, or how long we stopped—it was not between 1 and 2 o'clock before I gave information of the robbery—I have not been drinking this morning—it was not considerably after 1 o'clock when I spoke to the police constable—it was between 12 and 1 o'clock when this happened, but I was not sensible when I got up—I did not tell the policeman that the man wore a smock frock, nothing of the kind; I did not give a description of him at all—when I saw the prisoners
coming out of the court, I said to the policeman, "Those are the parties who robbed me"—I had previously told the policeman that it was a man and woman who robbed me—as soon as I got up, I picked up my cap and followed the prisoner, but they were out of sight—the policeman was the first person we met, and the first person I told that I had been robbed.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Were you very much confused after this struggle? A. Yes—I went immediately in search of a policeman—I cannot say what time it was.
WILLIAM LANEY . I am a labourer, of No. 5, Upper Thomas Street. I was with Tomlins in Goswell Street, on the night of 12th May, and when we were opposite the Church, between 12 and 1 o'clock, the prisoners were standing against the railings—the female spoke to Tomlins, but I did not hear what she said—Tomlins turned round, and they had a few words, and Merrick struck him three or four times, and he fell down—I turned round to pick him up, but I did not know whether Merrick was on hint or not—I cannot say whether Merrick fell, but as soon as I picked Tomlins up, he put his hand into his pocket, and said, "My watch is gone"—his chain was hanging out—Merrick ran, and the female followed him in the same direction; I saw them going across the road, and we followed them, and met a policeman, who said, "You follow me"—we went with him, and he took us to No. 1, Little Arthur Street—we watched there a few minutes, and out came Merrick and the female prisoner—I can swear he is the man—they were taken into custody—I had seen Tomlins' watch safe five minutes before.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know the prisoners before? A. No—Tomlins and I left the club together—it was a little after 12 o'clock when we left Hoxton—I had only belonged to the club about four months, and had only been there three times—I do not know how far it is from where this took place; it may be a mile, and it may be two miles—we walked straight from the club to the place where he was robbed; we never stopped anywhere—we did not stop to have a little drop of drink—the female spoke to Tomlins, and they were jawing each other before he was knocked down—I was perfectly sober, still I cannot tell you how long we were walking from the club to the spot; I never timed it—it was several minutes after Tomlins was robbed that he gave the prisoners into custody—we left the club at 12 o'clock; I know that by their shutting up the public houses; they shut the club up, and would draw no more beer—I never looked after the public houses we passed, to see whether they were shut up, and never walked into one; I have no doubt of that—the moment the prisoners came out, Tomlins said, "Those are the people"—he had previously told the policeman that a man and woman had robbed him—he did not tell the policeman that it was a man with a smock frock; he described him to the policeman by his features, and he might have described him by his dress—I will not say whether he did or did not say that he had a smock frock on, and looked like a countryman—we were not talking to some girls in the street after the robbery; I spoke to nobody before I spoke to the policeman—I cannot answer for what my friend did while I was running after Merrick and before Tomlins—I did not call out "Police!" when Tomlins was knocked down, nor did he at that moment—when Merrick was given into custody he said that he was in the house with the woman, and that it was a mistake—I saw no people fighting in the street when Tomlins was knocked down—I decidedly did not go into a public house from the time I left the club; I walked straight home with my friend, side by side, till
this occurred—I mean to tell you that deliberately on my oath—if anybody says that we went into a public house, it is a downright falsehood—we did not make the policeman make some inquiries at the houses in the court—I did not hear him ask for a man with a smock frock, or for anybody.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Did your club meet at a public house? A. Yes, it is a good bit past the Church, but I am a stranger there—it is the Robin Hood, at Hoxton—it was 12 o'clock when we left.
MR. SLEIGH. to OLIVER TOMLINS. Q. What are you? A. I am in the employ of Mr. Spiers, of Bridge Street, Blackfriars—I was here yesterday—I remember speaking to two women outside the Court about this case—I did not go up to them, and say, "I will not appear against Merrick if you will pay me to stop away; I will not go before the Grand Jury"—(Two women were brought into Court)—those are the women I spoke to—on my solemn oath I did not say to them that I would not go before the Grand Jury if they would pay me to stay away, nor to anybody else.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Did you address them? A. No, they addressed me; they had been watching me—the young one spoke first; she said, "Is the case come on?"—I said, "I do not know; I expect we had better wait here all the morning"—she said, "Are you going to have something to drink?"—I said, "No," and would not stop with her—the father and mother came down to my place; they did not ask me not to go before the Grand Jury, and I said nothing about it to them.
GEORGE MATTOCK . (Policeman, G 162). On the night of 2nd May, about half past 1 o'clock, Tomlins and his friend met me by Bell Alley, Goswell Street—Tomlins said that he had been knocked down—(he was then about a mile and a quarter or a mile and a half from Hoxton Church, about half an hour's walk—I do not know the Robin Hood)—I took them into Little Arthur Street, and was listening by the door of No. 2, and the prisoners came up from Golden Lane, and were going into No. 1—they were inside the passage, and I said, "I want you," and called them back, and turned my lamp on, and Laney said, "They are the parties;" Tomlins also identified them—I told Merrick the charge; he said that he knew nothing about it—I did not hear what the female said.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you been on your beat for a long time? A. Yes—I thought this had occurred just at that moment; Tomlins was bleeding freely from the eyes—I did not search down that alley for a man with a smock frock—Laney said, the first moment I came up, that he thought the man had a smock frock on—I did not give them time to describe the hat of the person; I said, "You come with me"—Merrick did not tell me that it was a mistake; he said that he knew nothing about it—it was to the effect that he was not guilty, and had nothing to do with the matter—I searched him, but found nothing.
JURY. Q. When you saw them, were they coming in a direction from the place where the robbery happened? A. Yes, and towards the house where the girl lives.
(Merrick received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
720. JOHN JOYSON (29) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Fuller Ritter Hunton, at Hackney, and stealing therein 28 spoons, 1 pair of sugar tongs, and other articles, value 10l.; his goods.
JOSEPH STATHAM . (Policeman, N 347). On 15th May, at 5 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Kingsland Road, at a quarter or half past 5 o'clock, and saw the prisoner pass to another man something which glittered
like spoons—I made towards him, and they both ran away together—I ran after them for some distance—they separated, and I followed the prisoner, overtook him, and said, "I want you; you have got something in your possession which you ought not to have," and in his hand I found this ornament made of bugles, for a decanter—I asked him where he got it from—he told me that it would make a sergeant of me if I put it on—on conveying him to the station, these five spoons, tied up together, fell from the bottom of his trowsers—he kicked them before him, and I said, "I expected that was what you had about you"—I searched him at the station, and found these five salt spoons and this large gravy spoon in one of his stockings, and in his pocket this silver box, containing five coins—I asked him where he got them—he made no answer—I said that I should charge him with having them in his possession—he then said, "I bought them of a man, and gave 5s. for them"—they are silver—I have shown them to Mr. Hunton, and he claimed them.
HANNAH HUNTON . I am unmarried, and reside with my mother, Fulleretta Hunton, a widow, on Stamford Hill. These silver articles are her's—they were safe about 11 o'clock on Thursday night, 14th May—I went to bed at half past 11 o'clock, and went round, and saw the house safely fastened up—in the morning, when I came down, the dining room window at the back had been thrown up, and the inside shutter forced open; that would enable a person to get in—the sideboard and cheffonier closet drawers were wide open, and the contents were in different parts of the room—the plate drawer was taken out, and placed on the floor, and the spoons all gone—two table covers had been taken, one out of the sideboard drawer, and one from the breakfast room, and were rolled up in another cloth from the breakfast room—two work boxes and a desk had been taken from the breakfast room, and opened in the drawing room, and the contents scattered about the floor—this little silver box of coins had been taken from one of them, and a vinaigrette from another—two coats which hung in the hall had the pockets turned inside out, and the papers were on the floor—the store room had been opened, and this bugle ornament taken from it—a drawer and box in the store room had been broken open and ransacked—this little leather bag was safe in the plate drawer the night before—the plate drawer was not locked, but was fastened with a screw inside the cupboard door, which was unlocked—I am not sure that we always lock it—an old pair of shoes were left in the hall, and we missed a pair which had been there—a pane of glass had been cut near the window fastening, so as to allow a person to put their fingers in; the sash was thrown up—I noticed a man, between 6 and 7 o'clock on the evening before, walking past the gate, but he was on the regular footpath—I believe the prisoner to be the man—he was alone.
Prisoner's Defence. I bought the things.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN TAYLOR . I am a carman, in the employ of Chaplin and Horne; Benjamin Worthy Horne is one of the partners; they are carriers, in Thames Street, and have a place for the reception of goods in Haydon
Square, Minories. I know the prisoner—he was formerly in their employment, going out with a cart—he has left from nine to twelve months—on Tuesday, 5th May, I went out with the van, delivering goods, from Haydon Square warehouse, at about half past 2 o'clock in the afternoon—I had a lad named Dicks with me—I had, among other things, to deliver a box for Morrison, Dillon, and Co., of Fore Street—as I went out I saw the prisoner sitting against the gate—he asked me where I was going—I said, "Into the City"—he said nothing about getting into the van, and I drove on to my first place, in Houndsditch—on stopping there, I turned round, and saw the prisoner in the hind part of the van, with Dicks—I took no notice, but went on to several other places delivering goods, and at the end of Aldermanbury, Dicks gave me a parcel to deliver in Fore Street—the prisoner asked me if he should take it to Messrs. Morrison's, and deliver it for me, and then I could call and get the signature—I said, "Yes"—I had not observed him interfering with the box, but when the boy was giving it on to his shoulder I noticed a breakage in it, which I had not noticed before—I saw no more of the prisoner after that till he was in custody—I called at Messrs. Morrison's about three minutes afterwards, but heard nothing of him or the box, and they refused to sign my book.
Prisoner. I took the book off the front of the van, and told you that I I would have a ride, and you said that I might have a ride behind you. Witness, I did not know you were there till I got to Houndsditch—my book was in the boy's possession.
THOMAS DICKS . I help Taylor with the van—I went with him on 4th May from Haydon Square—the prisoner was at the gate, and he got up when we were in Aldgate—he did not say anything, and I knew him before, and did not tell him to get off—going down Houndsditch, he asked me what was in the parcels—I said, "How do I know?" and when we came to Fore Street there was a piece of wood broken off a box, and he put his hand in and felt—I asked him what there was, and he would not speak—Taylor had a parcel to deliver in Fore Street, and I gave it to him—on that the prisoner asked my mate to let him deliver the other box, and he said, "Yes"—I helped to put it on his shoulder—he carried it away, and I saw no more of him—I did not see him interfere with Taylor's book.
Prisoner. Q. Was the piece broken off the box? A. Yes, as it was being put into our van—I did not break the piece off as I was putting it on your shoulder, and tell you to put it on again—I did not say that it would do for my fire.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was where this piece was broken off where you saw him putting his hand in? A. Yes—that was just before we got to Fore Street.
JOHN SNOW . I am warehouseman to Morrison, Dillon, and Co. On 5th May it was my duty to receive a box if it came, but it did not come——we had an invoice by post of the consignment of the goods, and Taylor, the carman, called to have his book signed, about 10 minutes past 4 o'clock—I would not sign it, not having received the case—the value was 10l. 11s. 6d.—this (produced) is the invoice.
CHARLES FOOTHORPE . I am one of the firm of Showell and Co., of Birmingham, papier mache makers. This is their invoice—I packed up the goods mentioned in it, on 4th May, for Morrison and Co., and gave them to our porter, Drew, and they were packed in a deal case; I saw a card on it, addressed "Morrison, Dillon, and Co., Fore Street, London"—the carriers call for the goods, and we sign a note and keep a duplicate—I wrote
both these notes (produced), and they were signed by Crisp, the agent for Chaplin and Horne, at Birmingham.
ROBERT CRISP . I am in the service of Cowley and Co. This ticket has my signature—on 4th May I received a deal case from Foothorpe and Co.—I took it to the London and North Western Railway, and gave it to Kirby, the porter.
JAMES HENSHAW . I am check clerk in the employment of the London and North Western Rail way, at Birmingham. On 4th May I received the case to which the note refers, and delivered it to Henry Fisher; it was his business to load it on the train—I had nothing to do with weighing it, but the invoice gives the weight as 2 qrs.
HENRY FISHER . I received a box from Henshaw for Morrison, Dillon, and Co., and put it on the railway wagon for London; the train was what we call the 10 o'clock, it would be in London about 9 o'clock next morning, the 5th—I checked it, there is my insertion of the weight.
THOMAS ROWDER . I am one of the managers of the business of Chaplin and Horne, stationed at Haydon Square. On Tuesday, 5th May, a case for Morrison, Dillon, and Co., came from Birmingham, and was delivered to Taylor, the carman, to take out on the same day—neither Taylor nor Dicks had any authority to part with the goods to anybody except the party to whom they were consigned.
JOSEPH PESTAL . I am a porter, and live in Whitechapel. I know the prisoner, I have worked at the same place with him—I was at Shoreditch on 5th May, from half past 4 to 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and saw the prisoner cross Shoreditch from Holywell Lane to Church Street, carrying a box about a foot and a half or two feet square, with no direction on it—there was a hole in it, and I could see that there was straw in it—I followed him, there was another man with him who is not in custody; they went along Church Street, about 300 yards, and went up a turning into Whitewash Court, where he asked me to give the box a lift down, and I took it off his shoulder—the other man went further up the court for about two minutes, and then lifted it on Day's shoulder again, and they both proceeded up the court—I do not know where they went to—there is no way out at the other end of the court.
Prisoner. A man lifted it up on my shoulder, and the other man said that he would go and see if his sister was at home. Witness. I lifted it off—there are four or five houses in the court.
MR. BODKIN. to JOHN TAYLOR. Q. About what time was it when you got to Fore Street and the box was taken by the prisoner? A. About 10 minutes past 4 o'clock—it was a deal box about two feet or two feet and a half square, and about eight inches thick.
JOHN LEONARD . (City policeman, 119). I took the prisoner on Wednesday, the 6th, in London Fields, Hackney; Taylor was with me—there was a fair there—when I took hold of him, and before I said anything to him, he said, "I am innocent," and at the same time dropped some money down the right leg of his trowsers—a crowd got round, and I picked up two half crowns and a florin, but do not believe I picked it all up—I said that I was
a police officer, and he said that he was aware of it—I was in private clothes—I told him that the charge was stealing a box of Chaplin and Home, containing papier mache goods; he said that he had delivered it—I asked him who he delivered it to, he said that he left it on a grating—I asked him if that was the usual way to deliver goods; he said, "Yes," that he had frequently done so before, that he saw a gentlemen in the street carrying a large parcel, and got another job for which he received 7 1/2 d.; and that when he got to the station, he earned a carpet bag and came to Whitecross Street, and put it in a cab—he did not say anything about going to Shoreditch.
COURT. Q. Do you know Whitewash Court? A. Yes, it would take about a quarter of an hour to walk from there to Morrison and Dillon's, but there is a shorter cut than you would go in a cab—I should think the prisoner would go in a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—there are about six houses in the court, and there is no way out; you must come out the same way as you go in—I went there and searched, but could not find anything—the parties who lived there have absconded since.
Prisoner's Defence. I had 4s. 6d. in my hand, and when he caught hold of me I dropped it; Taylor told me to take the box to Morrison and Dillon's, and wait till he came; he did not come in ten minutes, so I left the case by Morrison and Dillon's cellar, and asked a gentleman who I saw with a carpet bag if I should carry it; he said, "Yes," and I carried it into Chiswell Street, when he got into a cab and gave me 7 1/2 d.; I came down to where Taylor was going, to see if I could see him, but could not; going along Shoreditch, I saw a young man with a case, who asked me to carry it for him—I did so, and left him in the court with it.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
722. GEORGE JARVIS (20) and JOHN BUNCE (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Chamberlain, at St. Leonard, Shoreditch, and stealing therein 1 shawl, 1 pair of boots, and 1 coat, his property.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS MAVETY . (Policeman, N 43). On 5th May, at 5 a.m., I saw the prisoners in the yard adjoining Mr. Chamberlain's house; I asked them what they were doing there—he said, "It is all right, master; I only came here to ease myself"—I said, "Come here, I want to speak to you;" they immediately ran away, by getting over a couple of walls, into Brunswick Square, and I took Jarvis in a yard in the rear; he had got over a wall—he said, "I may as well give up, I will give you all I have got," and took off this shawl (produced), which was under his clothes and round his body, and gave me—he said, "That is all I have got;" and no other property was found on him—I afterwards discovered that No. 5 had been entered by the back window—I gave Jarvis into the hands of another constable while I examined the premises—I found the prosecutor's coat at the back kitchen window inside.
JOHN POLEY . (Policeman, N 110). I was with Mavety, and saw the prisoners—Bunce was trying to escape over a gateway; I stopped him, and took him to the other side of another gate, by Mr. Chamberlain's house—I found these boots of Mr. Chamberlain's on him, and some matches.
WILLIAM CHAMBERLAIN . I live at No. 5, Albion Terrace, Haggerstone. On 4th May, I went to bed at half past 10 o'clock, and saw the house fast-ened—I am sure the back kitchen window was shut down, but it was not fastened—I was alarmed by the police at 6 o'clock, and found that the home had been entered; the window had been opened, and a shawl, and a pair of
boots, and a coat taken—these are them, they were all safe in the front kitchen the night before, and are mine—my house is in the parish of St. Leonard, Shoreditch.
Jarvis's Defence. I told the inspector that I had found it.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months each.
OLD COURT.—Friday, June 19th, and Saturday, June 20th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron CHANNELL.; Sir HENRY MUGGERIDGE., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Mr. Baron Channell and the Fourth Jury.
MESSRS. GIFFARD. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS GORMAN . I live at Lurgan, county of Armagh, Ireland. I am a manufacturer of cambric handkerchiefs—in Feb. last I came to London—I went to the premises of the defendant Taylor, No. 1, Church Passage, Gresham Street—I had seen him before, in Lurgan—when I saw him on this occasion, I had some conversation with him about the sale of some Irish linen handkerchiefs—I do not recollect what day in February this was—Taylor agreed to dispose of these handkerchiefs for me—he offered to sell the handkerchiefs at 2 1/2 per cent for his commission—he said that the market was bad, that it was glutted with goods—I had a sample box with me—I said that I thought it would be as good for me to take them down to Manchester, I thought I could sell them there—he said that he thought I should not sell them there, that it would be better to leave them with him—I left them with him—I did not take them to Manchester—after this conversation I returned to Ireland—the sample I had was of several, seventeen or eighteen dozen of different ones that I had at home—they were different prices, and numbered from 80 to 97—after I got to Ireland, in March, I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "1, Church Passage, Gresham Street, London: March 5th, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Dear Sir, Could you do 100 dozen each more of the 5/8 handkerchiefs, Nos. 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, to go with the lot? It would make them a far better parcel, and perhaps during the next month they could be placed. Let me know per return what you think. I could have sold the last well three weeks back, but two or three of your Lurgan friends have glutted the market. I find you have offered them in most houses before coming in to me, as Mr. Roberts wished. Your's very truly, W. Taylor")—The 5/8 there means the breadth—I left a list with Mr. Taylor, with an account of the lot—I think there were 2, 568 dozen—some of those were 5/8 in width—I wrote an answer to that letter to Mr. Taylor—this (produced by Mr. Serjeant Ballantine) is it—(Read: "Lurgan, 7th March, 1857. Mr. W. Taylor. Dear Sir, I received your note this morning, and all the 5/8 handkerchiefs. I have ready now 8/12/8 dozen 8/13/8, 8/88/8, 8/99/0; if they would be any use to you, I will have them ready by the time you require them. I did not know of my samples being in any house but one, and Mr. Ward had seen them; but they were offered at the high list I left with
you, and only 2 1/2 off; and the last list of prices that I sent to you is a great deal lower. Hoping you will be able to sell them soon, I remain, dear Sir, your's truly, Thomas Gorman")—After I had written that letter, I received this one—(Read; "London, Thursday, 12th March, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Sir, I have an offer from Mr. J. H. May, of 10, Huggin Lane, Wood Street, City, for your handkerchiefs. I find that the list you first had and the one you left me to sell from at 2 1/2 off, and sixty days' bill, is 20 per cent. to a pound; he can buy them at 22 1/2 off, up to and including the 9s. 6d., and an extra five from 10s. 6d. upwards; terms for payment, half cash in one month from the time the goods are in and examined, and the other half by sixty days' bill at bankers'. Of course you take off the 2 1/2 for cash, and bill payment as usual. You can either write me per return or Mr. May. You must let him have the low numbers you have coming round. Your's, etc., W. Taylor. The Lurgan Banking Company know his bills")—On the receipt of that letter, I made some inquiries, after which my son wrote this letter to Mr. Taylor, and I signed it—(Read: "Lurgan, 15th March. Mr. W. Taylor. Dear Sir, I was from home on Friday and Saturday, or I would have written to you sooner. I do not know Mr. J. H. May, and you don't say anything for him yourself; I would wish to know from you his stability and character in trade. In your note you refer me to the Lurgan Banking Company; there is no such thing as the Lurgan Banking Company; there is the Belfast Banking Company, the Northern Banking Company, and Ulster Banking Company. You know the goods would amount to a good sum of money, and I would not wish to let them go to any place but a good house; and I depend on you not to place the goods in any house you have the least doubt of As I intend to go largely into the handkerchief trade, our friendship may continue long. Concerning Mr. May's offer for the goods, could not accept it; but when I receive your answer, I will let you know immediately the discount and terms on which I will sell them to him. Please write as soon as possible. Your's truly, Thomas Gorman")—After that I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "London, Thursday, 19th March, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Dear Sir, Your favour of the 15th was to hand only yesterday. I did not refer you to any one, but I meant to say the Ulster Banking Company had had several of May's bills. However, as he is strange to you, I write to say that Messrs. Myers and Co., late of 45, Ludgate Hill, will buy the lot, if as good as sample, at 27 1/2 off nett, and will give you cash cheque for 100l. on delivery, and the rest in some three or four bills having some thirty to sixty days to run, and all of them endorsed by Myers and Co. I would say to you that I would sell them this moment 10, 000l. worth of goods, and not ask them one question. They also refer you to the following in Belfast, with whom they have long had dealings: McGee and Co., clothiers; Lindsays brothers, drapers; Tucker, starch maker. You know if you can take the offer or not, but you will not get a better; and in another month you will not sell them at all. Reply per return certain. Your's, W. T.")—After the receipt of that letter, I wrote accepting the offer—this (produced) is the letter—(Read: "Lurgan, March 21. Mr. William Taylor. Dear Sir, I am in receipt of your favour of the 19th instant. The offer of Messrs. Myers and Co. is very low; in fact it would not make the goods at present. As you advise me to part with them, and give Messrs. Myers and Co. such a good character, I will let them have the goods on the same terms as you state in your letter. Let me know if I am to send the low numbers, as I stated in a previous letter,
No Dozen 8/12/8, 8/13/8, 8/88/8, 8/89/0, 92/16, 93/8. They are now in from the green, and ready to make up. Let me know by return where to send the goods to. The goods are as fair to sample as any lot of goods as ever was made up, as I stood by the lappers during the time they were making them up, and the samples were taken out after they were prepared. Remain your's sincerely, Thomas Gorman")—After writing that letter, I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "London, Monday, 23 March, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Dear Sir, In reply to your's of the 21st, I would send off the goods, packed in four cases, to my address, carriage paid. Immediately on receipt of this, I will then see they are delivered. And let me have the remaining low numbers, as noted by you, as early as possible. Make out the invoice to Messrs. Myers and Co., and let me have it with the goods; I will then check them off; get the cash and bills sent you, less the amount of my commission; and when the other parcel is ready, do just the same with them, and I will also. Tour's, W. T.")—The other parcel there mentioned was the parcel referred to in the first letter of 5th March—I think that was not ready at the time—it means such stock that I had in hand corresponding with the low numbers—after the receipt of that letter, I had the handkerchiefs sent off in four cases, as directed to Mr. Taylor's, Church Passage, London—I forwarded an invoice with them to Taylor—the invoice was made out to Myers and Co.—this (produced) is the invoice—it is dated 26th March—the invoice contains all the goods that I sent in the four cases, and also the sample box that I left with Taylor, in London—this (produced) is a letter of advice that was sent with the invoice—(Read: "Lurgan, March 26, 1857. Mr. William Taylor, London. Dear Sir, I enclose you the invoice of the goods sold to Myers and Co. I went down to Richardson and Co., Lisburn, yesterday, and arranged to have the goods sent off. They engaged to send them to the boat this morning, Thursday. Please send me cash and bills as soon as possible. Hoping this may lead to further orders, I am, dear Sir, your's respectfully, Thomas Gorman")—In that invoice I have charged the goods at the regular prices, and then deducted the 27 1/2 discount—that leaves the price that I was to receive for them 647l. 14s. 8d., the price charged being 893l. 8s. 6d.—after these goods had been sent, I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "London, Saturday, 4 April, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Dear Sir, The handkerchiefs came safe to hand. I have delivered them, and they are all checked off as being right; and on Tuesday I will send you cash and bills as agreed for the amount. Mr. Myers was too much engaged to-day to go into it. I find I did not tell you, but I agreed to meet him a little in the price of 96 and 97; he has it down on your list that I gave him, but I will refer to it on Tuesday; but I believe it was 96, 12s. 9d., and 97, 13s. 9d. You may think the price low, but they really were not so cheap as goods that I sell regularly. You had a great many numbers, and a quantity of the fine ones compared to coarse. Your's, W. Taylor")—Shortly after that I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "London, Tuesday night, 7 April, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Sir, I had sent over to me on Saturday afternoon a cheque from Myers and Co. for 81l. 10s. and gold 18l. 10s., by May, the party who sold the handkerchiefs for Myers and Co.; and thinking it strange that Mr. Myers did not come on, I wrote to his private house to say I was surprised he had not called with the cash and bills himself. He has been here, and I find that May is an out and out villain; he has intercepted the goods, sold them in his own name, and, it is said, received the cash, pocketed the money, with a lot more, and has bolted. I and my assistant
have been after him the whole day, but can't find him; I know not what steps to take, and am beside myself. Wait until I write to-morrow, and then I will see if you had not better come up. I had no idea in the world that Myers had not seen the goods; he says he has never seen them, and did not know they had been delivered. I will make another effort tonight to see him, and write by early post in the morning. I have ever found May honourable, and until a day or two have never known from any one anything irregular in cash matters. I will not leave one stone unturned. Your's, W. Taylor")—After the receipt of that letter, I sent a telegraphic message to Taylor; this is it (produced)—"Send at once the hundred pounds that you have received from Myers; I have no money. Say what you are doing")—The letter of 7th April contained no money—after sending the telegraphic message, I received this letter—(Read: "Thursday night, 6.30 p. m., 9th April, 1857. Mr. T. Gorman. Sir,—I do not wonder at your feelings conveyed by telegraph just to hand; but if the goods had been my own or my brother's, I should have done just' the same. The transaction was so clear, and I am told we can recover every sixpence of Myers. We must proceed cautiously, and have the very best opinion we can get. I have telegraphed McCullagh for you and Lawson to give me orders on this point. I carried out to the letter Myers' instructions, and it must be tried. May is in London, very ill, unable to leave his bed; but there is an accountant, and he has promised, with May, to meet us on Saturday or Monday at latest, and state the affairs, and make some proposition. I would say wait my next letter before you come up. I enclose you a cheque payable to your order, which please acknowledge per return. Value 100l. Your's, W. Taylor")—That letter contained a cheque for 100l.; but I had left Ireland before that letter arrived, and was on my way to London—I arrived in London on the evening of 10th April—Mr. Lawson came with me; he is also a manufacturer of handkerchiefs—on the following morning, the 11th, I and Lawson went to Taylor's counting house, in Church Passage, about half past 10 o'clock—I saw Taylor—we had a few words, and I said, "Mr. Taylor, how came you to let May get hold of my goods?"—he said that he came and got them when he was out—we had some more talk about the goods for a short time, and then we went up to the ware room on the second or third floor, and had some talk, and Mr. Turner came in, and Taylor said, "That is Mr. Turner, the solicitor"—some conversation took place; I do not think I spoke to Mr. Turner at that time—Taylor and Mr. Lawson had been talking about the handkerchiefs sold to Meekings, and Mr. Lawson asked Mr. Turner whether the Magistrate would not make Meekings give up the goods—Mr. Turner said he thought as the goods were sold so cheap, the Magistrate might cancel the sale; but he thought it was not a fit case for a Magistrate—he then left—when Taylor said that May got the goods when he was out, he said that he (May) should be hanged—I was there the most of the day—about 1 or 2 o'clock Mr. Drew came—I understand he is an accountant—Taylor and Lawson were present; Mr. Drew came in with some papers in his hand, and, reaching one to Mr. Lawson, he said, "This is your account with Mr. May," and he reached another paper to me, striving to draw my attention off, and said, "Mr. Gorman, this is your account with Mr. May"—I said I did not know Mr. May, that the goods were not sold to him—I do not remember that anything else was said, but Mr. Drew was to produce May at Mr. Turner's office on Monday, at 3 o'clock; Mr. Drew said that—I went on the Monday to Mr. Turner's office, in Aldermanbury,
with Mr. Lawson and Taylor—Mr. Drew came, but not May—Mr. Turner was very angry with Mr. Drew for not bringing May forward, and Mr. Drew shortly left, being displeased with Mr. Turner's being so warm with him about not producing May—Taylor then asked me what I had determined to do—I said I thought it would be better to get counsel's opinion before I proceeded any further in the affair—Mr. Turner, I, and Taylor, went to Mr. Prentice in the Temple—Mr. Turner selected Mr. Prentice—I saw Mr. Prentice—a statement was made to him—I had the letters with me that I had received from Taylor; they were not read nor looked at; they were produced, they were laid down on the desk—I do not think Mr. Turner saw those letters—Mr. Prentice said he thought there were some strong points in the case—I said nothing, for I knew nothing of the case; it was Mr. Taylor that stated it—by Mr. Prentice's advice, I afterwards served a notice on Myers; I think it was served on 16th April—that was the Thursday night following—I was to serve it on the Monday night—I served it—I went up to Myers' residence, No. 4, Malvern Terrace, Islington—Taylor went with me, and a young gentleman out of Mr. Turner's office—Taylor showed me the house; Myers was not within—Mr. Turner's young man lived up in that neighbourhood, and he said he would wait—the servant said he would be back at 9 o'clock—we came back, and I wanted Taylor to go in with me—he said he would wait till I came out—I did not serve the notice then, not till the 16th—I then served it at his own house—this is it—(Read: "1, Church Passage, Gresham Street, London, 16th April, 1857. Sir,—With reference to my contract with you for the sale of handkerchiefs, the same, with the invoice, having been delivered at Mr. May's warehouse in accordance with your instructions received through that gentleman, I have to demand of you the bills of exchange not to exceed sixty days, which you agreed to give in part payment of the same. The invoice price for the goods is 647l. 14s. 8d., from which, of course, has to be deducted 100l. received on account—bills will therefore have to be given for 547l. 14s. 8d. Your's obediently, Thomas Gorman. To Mr. Myers, 4, Malvern Terrace, Barnsbury Road, Islington")—The date is altered from the 13th to the 16th, as I did not serve it on the Monday—I did meet with him, but I did not serve it; I altered my mind—I saw Myers on the Monday, but I waited till the Thursday, and then served it—I had some conversation with Myers on the Monday—I said to him, "I suppose you do not know me, I am from Ireland, I come to see about the payment of my handkerchiefs"—he said he had made an offer for my handkerchiefs, and if he had got them, he would have paid for them—he said that Mr. Taylor had stated that he would make an exposure between him and May in this affair, but he would make an exposure between May and Taylor, for he knew a great deal of their doings, for that Taylor kept May in his own dwelling house, living with him, and that he had part of his warehouse from him—he then asked me how it was that more goods came than he had heard about, or than what he had heard was to come at first; and I stated it was the low numbers; they had been sent in No. 4 case—that was all that passed on that occasion that I remember—I did not serve the notice then—this conversation was at Myers' own house—Taylor waited for me; when I went out, I saw him—I served the notice on the Thursday night—I saw Myers then at the same place—we had some few words before I served it, about the handkerchiefs—he denied then that he had ever offered for the handkerchiefs, and I then served the notice, and left—it was Mr. Turner I think who prepared the notice—I think it was
in the letter that Myers denied having offered for the handkerchiefs, not on the Thursday night; he said then that if he had got my handkerchiefs, he would have paid for them—I afterwards received this letter from Myers (read)—on the Monday night, when I came out of Myers' house and joined Taylor, we left Islington together, and came down in a cab to Watling Street, where I was stopping—I said to Taylor, "Don't you live convenient to this place?"—he said, "I will go down to your lodging with you"—in the cab he asked me what Myers had said—I told him that he said if he had got the handkerchiefs, he would have paid for them—I told him that I intended to proceed against him, for there was something lurking that I did not know the rights about, and I would know more about it—he told me that if I would not proceed against him, he would give me all he had in his house, to the value of his bed that he lay upon, to accept the 5s. that May had offered, to make all the handkerchiefs I could, and for Mr. Lawson to do the same; that he was going into the shipping trade, and he would place us at a better advantage than any other of the men that he was selling for, but not to tell M'Cullagh that—I made no reply to that—he came to my lodging, that is two or three miles from Islington, and he sat there with M'Cullagh and I for two or three hours—I think it was 1 o'clock when he went away—I did not proceed with the action against May.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. (with MESSRS. HUDDLESTON. and MONK. for TAYLOR.). Q. I believe you had heard of the name of Mr. Taylor before you came to this country? A. I had; I knew him—I had obtained his name from a gentleman of the name of Roberts, a bleacher, of Collins Green, a most respectable gentleman, I know none more so, and a Magistrate—I think when I introduced myself to Mr. Taylor he had that letter—this is it—(This was dated 18th Feb., 1857, introducing Mr. Gorman to Taylor as a manufacturer, having cambric handkercliefs to dispose of. At the request of MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE, MR. GIFFARD. put in a letter from Mr. Gorman to Taylor, of 6th April, and the following: "Tuesday night, 7th April, 1857. Mr. Gorman. Sir,—Had you not better come up at once? I fear we have fallen into the hands of a great rogue. I have had advice, but will you telegraph me how to act? I will telegraph you to-morrow if I hear anything different. Your's, W. Taylor."—"Wednesday, 8th April, 1857. To Mr. T. Gorman. Sir,—I have no better news for you, but worse. Myers sets us at defiance, and says he is not responsible, because the goods or invoice were not sent to him personally; whereas everything was carried out according to his and May's instructions. Myers was to buy the goods, May sell them, and they divide the profit. May took the goods in, and sold them, unknown to Myers, and has kept the cash all but the 100l. paid last Saturday afternoon. I have a shrewd lawyer at work, and am promised an interview with May to-morrow. It will be found one of the blackest transactions on hand. I will let you know the result of the interview. Your's, W. Taylor.")—I had not taken these handkerchiefs to other places before I took them to Taylor; I went to Mr. Faithful, not to several others; I was not at a warehouse in London, I took sick—I left them with Mr. Faithful—that might or might not have been for the purpose of being taken to other places; it might be for that purpose—I left them with Mr. Faithful for the purpose of being shown in the trade; but he told me he did not show them—he brought some of the buyers to his own place to look at the samples—he might have had them a week—he could have sold half of them, but thought it was not fair to break the lot—I went to Taylor with Mr. Faithful; he is not here—when
I came up to London afterwards I went to Taylor, with Mr. Lawson—I went in and shook hands with Taylor, and we had some few words, and then I asked him how it was that he let May get my goods—he replied that he got them when he was out, and that he should be hanged—he either said he should be hanged, or he ought to be hanged—he did not say, "He first came when I was out, and he afterwards came and got the goods"—there was a boy present when we went in, but I rather think he went out—I am not sure he did not say that May had come twice about them—I do not remember hearing such a remark—I will not swear he did not make it; I think I heard Mr. Hairby say that May came and asked for the invoice for Mr. Myers to see it—that was some time in the next week—he was not present the first time that I saw; he was there a short time afterwards—I did not learn from him that Taylor had helped to pack the goods, not at that time; I heard it the following week, I think, from Hairby, at the warehouse—we were talking about it several times, and I think he told me—I could not swear positively that it was him, I think it was, I have a doubt—I cannot say whether Taylor was present at the time, he might, or might not be—I do not remember anybody being present, nor can I swear positively that it was Hairby that told me, though I believe it was—this was the week following my coming to town—I think it was before I served the notice—I came to town on Friday—I saw Taylor on Saturday, and served the notice on the Thursday—I never heard, until I was at the police court, that Taylor had received the goods, and unpacked them—I heard Taylor say several times that he had delivered them according to his instructions—it is my belief that Hairby told me that May came and asked for the invoice for Mr. Myers to see it, and that he brought it back again—I did not, that I remember, hear that he had come a second time and unpacked the goods—I will not swear I did not, I cannot say whether I did or did not—I do not remember hearing that he did so, in the presence of Taylor—I will not swear whether I did or did not—I will swear that I heard it before I served the notice—the gentlemen I went to were Messrs. Sole and Turner, the solicitors—I took all the papers to Mr. Prentice's chambers, all these letters, and Mr. Prentice was consulted with a view to taking steps against Myers—Taylor did not, from the beginning to the end, give me every sort of facility for that purpose; at first he wanted no law at all; he did not want me to go to law—when I went to Mr. Prentice, Taylor gave me all the information, and offered to be of any use to me that he could—the order from Myers for the goods might have been produced by Taylor at the interview with Mr. Prentice; but I did not see it—I did not see it shown to Mr. Prentice; it might or it might not have been, I cannot recollect—it might be there, and probably was, I do not remember it—I was thinking of proceeding against Myers at that time—an order from Myers for the goods would be a most important matter to be produced as against Myers; I cannot recollect whether that order was produced at the consultation with counsel, for I had no conversation with the counsel, and took no part in it; I was sitting at the back of the room—I cannot tell whether or not the order was referred to on that occasion, it might be there—I cannot recollect whether it was spoken of, and Mr. Prentice's attention specifically called to it—Taylor expressed himself very indignantly both about May and about Myers—to-day is not the first time that I have mentioned the conversation in which Taylor said that if I would not proceed against him he would give me all he had, even his bed—I mentioned it that night—I mentioned it when I was before Mr.
Alderman Humphery, and it was put down—I saw it written down—I mean gravely to say that Taylor said that to me—I had previously threatened to proceed against him at the law—I was walking about with him, and calling on Myers, and I was quite friendly with him up to that time—we may have walked arm in arm—I did not wish him ill, and do not yet—I never was at his house—I had been drinking with him that night—he waited in a tavern opposite till I came out from Myers—I did not make him drunk, because I had not got much myself—I rather think he was not too sober when he said this—I do not mean that he was very drunk; by "not too sober," I mean when a man gets about a quarter or half drunk—he told me that he had drunk three glasses of punch while I was gone to Myers, and before I came out—he was very affectionate—he did not say that he would give up the bed he slept on to punish Myers—I never remember his making use of that expression, or to punish May—we went in a cab to the house I was stopping at; I think we bad a drop of whisky there—I think we sat there two hours, or two hours and a half—we had nothing but whisky, we were talking the Affair over—I was not drunk, and saw nothing the worse in him—I was saying that I was not well pleased at the way my goods had gone, and he was saying that if he had the money he would pay me himself—he stated that many times—I did not drink many glasses, nor did he—I do not remember all the conversation that we had—he has told me several times that if I had been swindled it was by Myers, or May, and he would do all he possibly could to bring the matter home to them—I cannot say that he said so that night, he might, or he might not—I saw him every day between the Monday and the Thursday—the notice to Myers was drawn up by Mr. Turner—I did not learn that Myers was a perfectly solvent person—when I went on the Monday I heard that May was worth nothing; I heard that Myers was a wealthy man, but I did not believe that he was as wealthy as was represented to me—the giving these people in charge for fraud was the first thought that got into my head when I opened the letter from Mr. Taylor, before I left Lurgan—I meant to give anybody into custody that I thought was guilty; I was very sensible that I was robbed—I associated with Taylor afterwards, manly and straightforwardly; as I told you, I have no ill feeling towards him yet—nobody put it into my head to indict him—when I went back to Ireland my friends advised me to take this course—they have subscribed to enable me to do so, but I knew nothing about that for weeks after.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. (for May). Q. I believe from first to last you never saw May? A. Yes, I had an interview with May on 14th April, I think—I have mentioned it very often before to-day—I have not mentioned it this morning; I saw him at Giles's office—I had no correspondence with him.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. (with MR. SLEIGH. for Myers). Q. You had never seen Mr. Myers at all until 13th April, had you? A. No, I never had any correspondence with him—the only order that I had for the goods was the order contained in the letter of 19th March that I got from Taylor—it was upon that letter that I sent the goods over from Ireland—when I first saw Mr. Myers he told me that he had never seen the goods, and that he was out of town when they arrived in London—I do not think I made inquiry to ascertain whether he was out of town at the time the goods arrived—I asked Mr. Jary—that was since these proceedings—there were very few who would tell me anything about my goods—if
Mr. Myers had paid me the invoice price of 640l. at the time I wrote the letter of 16th April, I certainly should not have given him into custody; if I had got my property, or my money, I should not have cared about public justice—I do not think any man would when he has got his property; he has got justice when he has got that—on the first occasion I only gave Taylor and May into custody—Myers attended before the Alderman without any warrant, but if he had not attended there would have been one—he attended of his own accord, when he was sent for—I think that was about four days after Taylor and May were in custody—it was on the second hearing I think that Myers attended—in one part of the conversation I had with Myers he stated that Taylor kept May in his house—I inquired where they were living, and found that they were living together in the same house up to Jan. last, and for some time previous—I do not think I made that inquiry between the 13th and the 16th—I think it was at the time the proceedings were on at the police court, but I heard it the first time I was up.
COURT. Q. You went on the 13th and gave Myers a certain notice? A. Yes; I did not serve it till the 16th—several reasons induced me to change my mind—Mr. Lawson, and Mr. M'Cullagh, and others were inducing me to serve the notice on Myers, thinking it might bring the money out, and I was going home to Ireland the day after, and I thought it best to serve it, and then take the advice of my friends in Ireland—the reason of that was that May was promising 5s. in the pound to all the creditors.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. You have been asked about your going about with Taylor, and taking whisky and water with him, and so on; up to that time had any one told you that his story that May had taken the goods away unknown to him, was false? A. No, I never heard it till I heard it at the police court.
COURT. Q. You say that when you were in the cab you told Taylor that you should take proceedings against him? A. Yes, I did.
ALEXANDER LAWSON . I am a manufacturer of cambric pocket handkerchiefs. I received this letter from Taylor—(Read: "No. 1, Church Passage, Gresham Street, London. Dec. 6th, 1856. Mr. A. Lawson. Dear Sir,—I write to say you will have Mr. Swallow, from Copestake and Co., over with you about Thursday next, and that I have given him your list and prices, and he wants to see them in bulk; he will not be content with sample dozens. If I had had the stock I could have got an offer from two parties. Try all you can; they pay cash, and do a large trade. Very truly your's, W. Taylor.")—In consequence of that letter, I sent to Taylor about 2, 600 dozen of pocket handkerchiefs—I afterwards received from him this letter—(Read: "Mr. A. Lawson. Dear Sir, The collector has called for 2l. or 3l. for carriage of your four last cases to hand. Must I pay it? Shall I send you the empties to Lurgan, or to Richardson and Co.? Say per return. I shall be able I hope to go into them next week, and will do the best possible for you.")—On receiving that, I sent the receipt for the carriage of those goods that I had paid—on 15th Jan. I received another letter from Taylor—(This merely stated that he had the goods in two houses, and hoped to get a final answer at once, and requesting another case to be sent)—In consequence of that I sent two more cases, containing 926 dozen handkerchiefs, and on 24th Jan. I received from him this letter—(This acknowledged the receipt of the two cases, and offered to guarantee the account, including his commission, for 4 per cent.)—on 16th Feb. I received this sale account—(This was dated 14th Feb., and was headed, "Copy of sale made to J. H.
May by W. Taylor, for Mr. A. Lawson, Lurgan; the total amount was 384l. ")—In that letter there were two bills, one for 200l. at three months, and the other for 184l. at one month—Taylor did not inform me who he had sold the goods to till I received that sale account and the bills—one of them I paid away, and did not hear of again; the 200l. bill was dishonoured—the bills were sent to me in blank, and I put my name to them as the drawer—on 23rd March I received this letter—(This was dated 21st March, and stating that he had cleared the whole lot of handkerchiefs, in four small lots, for which he should not receive the cash before 14th April, and one large lot of 300l. which should be sent on the 28th, and that the other 1, 000 were unopened)—That letter relates to the residue of the goods amounting to 384l.—on 31st March I received this letter—(This was dated March 28th, enclosing account of sale)—This cheque for 296l. 2s. came in that letter, it is drawn by J. H. May—that was returned dishonoured—it has never been paid—on 9th April I received this letter—(Read: "Tuesday night, April 7th, 1857. Mr. A. Lawson. Sir,—On receipt of your's yesterday I went to May some eight or ten times; he was not to be found. I sent my young man on to his private house, and he said he was too ill to attend, but had made it all right for your cheque to be paid as this day, and I am sure he has not, for I hear to-day that he is off out of the country, and has robbed every one. He must have got about 3, 000l. I am distracted; I know not what steps to take for you, or the three others. I learn that he has intercepted Gorman's goods, sold to Myers and Co., and has sold them, and got the cash, which was to be paid this day. Do not repeat this, until I find if it is true. I will write you again to-morrow, Wednesday. I hope to find out something better: if it prove true, I am ruined entirely. Let me know if I have put your bill down correct date in my cash book, sixty days from March 10th, due June 13th. I feel beside myself. If your cheque and bill are met, I shall indeed be thankful; say per return. I will devote all my time to the affair, if moving. I hear Messrs. Patrick, Kinnane, and Co., Belfast, had a large bill due last week, Saturday; and not having met this has brought every one down on May, and he cannot meet it. I will write you by early post to-morrow. Believe me, very truly your's, W. Taylor.")—The bill is of sixty days, of his own acceptance, for 76l: 12s. 6d.—next day I received this letter—(Read: "No. 1, Church Passage, Gresham Street, London, Wednesday, April 8th, 1857. Mr. A. Lawson. Sir,—I much regret to find this day that that infernal rogue May has not honoured your cheque. Pray write me what I can do to assist you; draw on me if you like for two-thirds of the amount of the one thousand dozen I now hold; anything and everything I can do shall be done. I feel completely done up, because I know the misery he has caused. Any transaction I have ever had with the man up to last week was met honourably, and to the very letter of the word. He has promised me, through a friend, an interview with my attorney to-morrow at 10 o'clock; whatever transpires I will either write you or telegraph. I feel confident it will be one of the worst cases ever made public. Truly your's, W. Taylor.")—If the two bills of Taylor's and May's and the cheque had been honoured, it would have closed my first consignment—I have been paid that acceptance of Taylor's: he had no right to send me that, he got the money for the goods—there was a small lot sent up in Sept. last—I received this letter on 27th April—(Read: "April 25th, 1857. Mr. A. Lawson. Sir,—May has had, through Mr. Giles, No. 118, London Wall, counsel's opinion given in writing, this day, as to his position with
Myers, and the opinion is decidedly favourable as to Myers' liability all through the affair, and he, Giles, advises all the creditors to club together, and try the case, and if all pay down enough for costs out of pocket for counsel, and the case is lost, Giles will charge nothing. Then you can fall back upon May, and recover the 5s. offered; but the 5s. will be paid down at once, if accepted by all parties. I will be glad to hear from you, and all I can I will do to serve you. Very truly your's, W. Taylor")—I came over with Mr. Gorman—on the day following I went to Taylor's warehouse—I had never seen Taylor before—Gorman went in first, and shook hands with him; he had seen him before, and introduced me to him—I told him my name, and Gorman asked him how he let May have those goods—Taylor told him that he came in, and took them out of the warehouse while he was out, and that he either should be or ought to be hanged.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You have put in a letter, dated Jan. 24th, from Mr. Taylor, offering to guarantee you against loss for 4 per cent commission? A. Yes, I understood it in that way—I declined that—I trusted him at that time—it was Mr. M'Cullagh that introduced me to Taylor, by letter—he is a countryman of mine—he has only been three or four years in Lurgan—he commenced the manufacturing there—he was long enough there for me to take his recommendation—he wrote to Mr. Taylor, and so did I, and I had a letter from Mr. John Roberts—I am not sure of the date of my first transaction with Mr. Taylor, if I saw the letter I should know—it was in Sept.—the amount of goods I sent then was about 278l., I think; I am not certain—the whole of that was paid on 10th Dec.—I got the money—it was paid by a crossed cheque of Mr. Taylor's—the next lot of goods came to 384l., of which 184l. was paid, and 200l. not paid—when I came up to London I received in addition the sum of 76l. from Mr. Taylor; that was before the bill became due—I got the cash from Mr. Taylor—I did not get it before the money was due, I did before the bill was due; but he had no right to give me the cheque, he had received the money—I received a cheque from him, which was paid—I saw May once; the first time I ever saw him was on 14th April in Giles and Drew's office—I have not seen him since, until I arrested him on 1st May.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Had you had any communication with May before? A. Yes, I received one letter in reference to that last cheque—I had not known May in any preceding transactions, only at the sale that took place in Oct.; that was paid on 10th Dec.—I knew May in that transaction in Oct.—Mr. Taylor sent me the account sales of J. H. May—that was paid by a crossed cheque of Mr. Taylor's—that was the very first transaction—it was exactly the same in the second and third transactions—they were not all duly paid, the first was—the first time I ever saw May was in Giles's office—on that occasion he said he had given the money, the produce of Gorman's goods, to Myers—I did not hear the amount mentioned—he stated it at 100l.—I was asking him what he did with the goods—I inquired about Gorman's goods—I asked him what had become of the money, and he told us that he had given the money to Myers, and that Myers charged him 7l. 10s. for the 100l. that he got from him, to give to Taylor, to send to Gorman.
COURT. to THOMAS GORMAN. Q. This cheque arrived when you were away? A. Yes—my son attended to the business—I understand it was a cheque that was sent to the Northern Bank, in Lurgan, from Mr. Taylor, and my son took it there, and they would not pay it, and Mr. M'Cullagh, I believe,
gave a cheque on the Ulster Bank, and took the other, and brought it back to London—when I got back the money was paid—I do not know how it was paid of my own knowledge.
WILLIAM DAVID OWEN . I live at No. 20, Cambridge Terrace; I am fourteen years old. In March last I was in Taylor's employment—I remember on Saturday, 28th March, about half past 1 o'clock, some cases of goods arriving from Ireland—Mr. Taylor was not there when they came; he came in just as they were delivering the last case—there were four cases—when Mr. Taylor came in he sent me to Mr. May to say that the goods were come—I went to May, in Huggin Lane—I saw him—Taylor did not tell me whose goods they were—when I came back from May's the cases were not unpacked—they were unpacked soon after, the same afternoon—May came while they were unpacking the goods—he had told me he would stop and receive them—Mr. Hairby and Mr. Dolphin helped me unpack them—Dolphin was in May's employment—Taylor was present part of the time when the goods were unpacked—I think he was there when May came—I heard May say something about Mr. Myers—I heard him say he would send Johnson's cart on—the goods took about half an hour unpacking—May then left—after he left a cart came, and the goods were put into it—they were put on Mr. Taylor's counter first, and Mr. Taylor gave them to us—they were in small boxes—Mr. Taylor was there when the goods were put on the counter; he sorted them out—that was after May left, and before Johnson's cart came—when the cart came these things were put into it—Dolphin, and Hairby, and Mr. Taylor, and two porters were present—I have seen May at Taylor's warehouse before this Saturday, 28th March, in the course of the same week—he came there nearly every morning, to ask whether there were any letters from Mr. Gorman—he did not see Taylor, or Taylor's clerk; I was opening, the shop when he came sometimes—he did not look at the letters; he asked whether there were any letters from Mr. Gorman, of Lurgan—I looked at the postmark of the letters to see—I know Myers—I have seen him at Taylor's twice; once when Taylor was out—I think that was on the Wednesday before the Saturday, 28th March—I think that was the time Taylor was out—he saw Mr. Taylor once, that was not on the Wednesday, I think it was in that week, the second time he called, it was about half past 1 o'clock—I think it was on the Wednesday—that was the last time I saw him—he called before that Wednesday—I do not know what day it was—I do not know whether it was in that week—he called and saw Taylor after these goods had come on Saturday, 28th—I am wrong; I think it was the Wednesday after the goods had arrived that he came—Taylor was in then.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. On the first occasion that Myers came, did he leave any message? A. No; Mr. Taylor told me that if Mr. Myers came, he wanted to see him; that it was something of very great importance—I told Mr. Myers—he said he was going out of town, and could not stop then; it was some time in the following week that he called again—I did not hear anything that took place between Myers and Mr. Taylor then—I heard May say something about Myers on one occasion, when he was at my master's, it was when we were unpacking the goods—he said Mr. Myers, I think, was waiting for something—I was not present when Gorman and Lawson came—I came in while they were there, but I was not there when they came—I cannot say that my master said anything about the goods, in my presence, while Mr. Gorman was there—I do not recollect Mr. Taylor saying anything to Mr. Gorman or to Mr. Lawson about
where he was when the goods came—I had been two months and a week with my master—a great many goods used to come there—he appeared to have a large business.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. When was it you saw Mr. Myers first of all at Mr. Taylor's? A. The first time I saw him was when Mr. Taylor was out—I first saw him after the goods had arrived, and then it was that Mr. Taylor said he wanted to see him on a matter of importance.
JAMES DOLPHIN . I have been for ten months in the service of May—the first time when I was in his service his office was at No. 1, Church Passage, Gresham Street, the same place in which Taylor had his office—they were in the same house about six months—part of that time May lived in Cambridge Street, Pimlico—during the time that May lived there, Taylor lived in the same house—on Saturday, 28th March, I was sent by May to unpack some goods—I helped to get the goods out of the cases—May told me he was going to order a cart from Johnson's to take the goods from Church Passage to Huggin Lane—that is May's own place—the distance is about 200 yards, I should think—they were all taken there—I know Myers—I have seen him at May's frequently, before and after the goods arrived—he came there on the Wednesday after the goods arrived—I am not able to swear where these particular goods went to, any further than I heard that they went to Meeking's—I helped to put them into Johnson's cart to go from my master's premises; they were the same goods that came there on the 28th—I believe this was on the Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning, I will not be sure which—a few of the handkerchiefs were left in the ware-house—those handkerchiefs were lying on the counter when Myers came on the Wednesday—I heard May tell Myers that he was going to send them to Brighton—I have frequently seen Myers and May together, Myers was at May's warehouse nearly every day; they have been at the same desk looking over the same books together, and generally in private conversation; nearly always, when Myers came in, I was asked to withdraw, or any one else that was in the room—I was present when Myers came after May had left, and I saw him lock May's desk, and take the key—I think that was on the following Tuesday—May had only one room at Huggin Lane.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. What were you while in May's employment? A. Town traveller, I was about ten months in his service—he was an agent, he had one room which was his warehouse or office, or whatever he chose to term it—I was, with the handkerchiefs on Saturday afternoon, the 28th, when they started from Church Passage, and I was with them, I think, until the whole of them were unloaded—I saw May come to Taylor's once at the time we were unpacking the goods—part of the goods went to Meeking's on the following Monday, I do not know what quantity, I had nothing to do with it.
Q. Did May deal much in handkerchiefs? A. He would have a parcel occasionally, perhaps once in two months; I did not always know where his handkerchiefs came from—these were all he had in his room at the time, he had no others that I am aware of; no goods that I know of came in on the Monday—I cannot swear whether any came on the Tuesday or Wednesday, but I believe not; no handkerchiefs at least—I will swear that—I was not there all day, I was there the biggest part of the day—a few boxes of handkerchiefs were lying on the counter on the Wednesday, I cannot say what number there were, they were in boxes—anybody that came in could see the boxes, not the handkerchiefs; they were numbered, there was no name on
them, no selling name. I have seen Myers at May's nearly every day from the time we were at Huggin Lane; oftener than when we were in Church Passage—I do not know that Myers had been in the habit of advancing money to May from time to time, or giving him accommodation—I did not know Myers at all before I went to May's—I knew him when he carried on business on Ludgate Hill, as Myers and Co., I was traveller to May at that time—I know nothing at all about what business they had together, I had nothing to do with the books.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did Myers and Co. carry on business on Ludgate Hill as card printers? A. Yes—when I travelled for May, it was as the agent of Turner and Co., for needles—May employed me to travel with Turner's needles; the business was Turner's, but May was the agent through whom my appointment was procured.
COURT. Q. You say you were with the goods when they were taken from Church Passage to Huggin Lane? A. Yes; they were taken in the boxes—when the first load went away in Johnson's cart on the Monday, we did not put as many boxes in as the cart would hold—there was only one lot—the other lot was put on one side, Meekings would not have them; I do not know where the small lot went to—I did not say that two lots went away, one on the Monday, and one on the Tuesday—they went away in the boxes they came in.
CHARLES AMBRIDGE . I am carman to Richard Johnson, of Axe Yard, Milton Street. On Monday, 30th March, I went to Huggin Lane with a cart, with a man named Webb—I got from May's, in Huggin Lane, 194 boxes, which were put into the cart—Webb went with the cart—I do not know where it went.
HENRY WEBB . I am carman to Mr. Johnson. On 30th March I went to Huggin Lane, between 10 and 12 o'clock—a number of boxes were put into the cart—I delivered them at Messrs. Meeking's, the linendrapers, on Holborn Hill—there were 194 boxes—I did not take any on any other day.
GEORGE JARY . I live at No, 6, Orchard Terrace, Bromley. I have been in May's employment for about five months—I know Taylor—I went to Mr. Meeking's about the goods sent on 28th March—I saw them delivered at Huggin Lane before I went to Meeking's—I went to Meeking's on Monday morning, and took a sample—May went with me—all the goods were delivered to Mr. Meeking but two numbers, which were not sold—I took the samples in the morning, and the goods were delivered, I think, about 12 o'clock—I did not produce the invoice to Mr. Meeking; it was sent with the goods—I received these three cheques (produced) from Mr. Meeking, or some person in his establishment—that was in payment for the goods—I do not think I had this cheque for 97l., I think I had gold—the cheque was drawn, and Mr. Meeking was not in to sign it, and the clerk gave me gold instead—I did not see the invoice made out by May—I know his handwriting—these are his writing—(These were two invoices, headed "Messrs. Meeking and Co., bought of J. H. May, general commission agent and cambric handkerchief manufacturer," and amounted to 354l. 14s. 6d. and 59l. 3s. 6d.)—I know that the invoices went with the goods—I was in the warehouse at the time, and saw the goods go away—the sale to Meeking was on Saturday, 28th March—on the Monday afternoon I saw an invoice lying on the desk, headed "Myers and Co."—I saw May draw a cheque in favour of Myers on the Union Bank for 50l.—I believe this is it (produced)—this other cheque is also in May's writing—(these were two cheques of 50l.
and 100l.)—I took the 50l. cheque to the Union Bank, on the Monday morning I think—he gave me the cheque too late on the Saturday to pay it in—I wrote to Myers, merely saying that I was desired by Mr. May to say that I had paid 50l. in to his account at the Union Bank—I sent that letter to Ramsgate—I did not write that in consequence of this note from Myers (produced)—I never saw that till I saw it at Guildhall—it is Myers's hand-writing—(Read: "Write me by Friday night and Saturday night what cash you have paid in to my banker's. Address, 'Mr. G. D. Myers, Mrs. Bishop's, Russell Place, Ramsgate'")—I wrote to that address—May told me to do so—I did not in the letter I wrote say anything about any other cheque—(looking at a paper) I cannot say whose writing this is—I wrote the letter on Saturday, 28th March—I only wrote once, and after the letter was written it was found too late to pay it in, and it was left till Monday morning—I did not post the letter; I think Dolphin did—I do not know anything of a cheque of the 27th March, nor did I mention it in my letter—I know nothing of it, or of this memorandum—I should think this is in Myers's writing; I would not swear to it; I believe it to be his—(Read: "Amount, say 500l.; 30 per cent. off, delivered free in London; 100l. cash, on receipt of goods; good bills, short dates, payable in London, not to exceed sixty days, to run with Myers and Co., late of 45, Ludgate Hill, London. Endorsement: Myers and Co. are well known for years by M'Gee and Co., clothiers, Belfast; Lindsay Brothers, drapers, Belfast; Tucker, starch maker, Belfast")—I received my commission on the sale to Meeking, 2 1/2—it did not amount to 11l.—I received 11l.—there was a little commission due to me besides that, not on those goods—that 11l. was not paid out of the gold that I received—I am sure of that; I went direct from Meeking's to the Union Bank, and paid it in—I got the 11l. from May—I got only one commission on this lot of handkerchiefs; that was on the sale from May to Meeking—I was in the warehouse after May had left, when Myers came there on the Tuesday or Wednesday—he asked for May—I told him that he was not there, and that he had left the key of the desk to be handed over to him when he came—I gave him the key—he went to the desk, unlocked it, locked it again, put the key into his pocket, and went out of the house—on the Monday afternoon after I saw this invoice, I said to May, "This invoice is made out to Myers and Co."—he said yes; that Myers and he had bought the goods—this invoice relating to Mr. Lawson's goods is in May's writing—it is dated 13th March, from May to Meeking—I received these cheques from Meeking's in respect of those goods, one on the 12th, and the other on the 13th—this other invoice is also in May's writing—I received this cheque for 80l. 17s. 3d. from Meeking and Co. in respect of that transaction.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. I believe you have already stated that May had an account at the Union Bank, and so had Myers? A. Yes—I saw from the pass book that there was a sum of 100l. paid in on 1st April by May to the account of Myers—I saw that in the pass book at Guildhall—I had not offered Mr. Gorman's goods to several other houses before I offered them to Meeking's—I had taken samples to Leaf's, in Old Change—that was when May first had the samples sent in to his place—I do not know the date; he had the samples before the 28th—I do not know how soon before; it might be two or three days or a week, I do not know—I heard that the market was thoroughly glutted with these goods—there had been a great many goods in the market lately—I did not find that they had been refused by other persons at the price at which Meeking eventually
took them; I only offered them to Leafs, and they were full, and would not buy—nothing was said about price.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. Myers was at Ramsgate on 26th and 27th March, was he not? A. Yes—I think I saw him on the Tuesday, but I will not be certain—I understood that some member of his family was ill at Ramsgate, and that he had gone there to see them—I do not know that there had been money transactions between May and Myers to a considerable extent—I do not know that Myers was sometimes in the habit of lending May his cheque—I did not keep the books—May did—I do not know that in March Myers had pressed May for payment on account of money that he owed him—I do not know that May was indebted to Myers about 147l. at the end of March—I do not know the state of accounts between them—I recollect seeing one cheque in May's possession drawn by Myers; I think I paid it in to the Union Bank, to May's Account—that might have been two or three weeks, or a month before—I have never been present when applications have been made by May to Myers for loans of money—May was not in the habit of consulting at all with me as to money matters, not in any way—I first saw the memorandum requesting to be written to at Ramsgate, at Guildhall—it was on the Wednesday that I gave the key to Myers—May had been there that morning, but had gone—he did not tell me where he was going—I did not know that he was gone for good—I handed the key to Myers by the direction of May—I do not recollect that Myers at first refused to take it, and say he did not want it—I believe there was something of the sort said—I believe Myers said, "What are you to give me the key for?" or something of that sort, and I said, "May has gone out, and has left the key with me to give it to you," and he took it—I do not think I saw Myers again that same day; I think I saw him the day following, at the warehouse, in Huggin Lane—Mr. Taylor was with him—I do not recollect seeing Myers there after that; he and Taylor went to the desk on that occasion—at the time I gave Myers the key the desk was locked; he unlocked it, looked into it, looked it again, and then went away—I am quite unable to give any account at all of how the accounts were between May and Myers—I cannot say that I know there had been dealings between them in the earlier part of the year; I have seen Myers there frequently.
JOHN WOODWARD . I am a buyer to Charles Meeking, linendraper, Holborn Hill. On Monday, 13th March, I saw the defendant May and Mr. Jary—they showed me a sample of some handkerchiefs—those handkerchiefs were afterwards delivered, at the price mentioned in the invoice.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. How was it closed? A. By a cheque drawn for 46l. 1s. 3d.—the balance he had was drawn out—the account was opened on 6th Dec., 1856—it only lasted four months.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. Myers also banked with you? A. Yes—I cannot tell you whether cheques drawn by Myers on us were paid in to May's account—I have May's account here—I do not find a credit to May's account of 110l. on 2nd Jan.—it is 141l. 10s.—I cannot tell how that sum was made up—one of our books at the bank would show it, the waste book—there is no credit to May's account on 7th or 8th Feb. of 10l.; there
is 20l. on the 7th—I find no item of 10l.; on the 14th, here is 56l. 14s. 1d.; on 3rd March, 119l. 3s. 6d.; and on the 6th, 48l.—there have been several cheques of Myers's drawn in favour of May, and paid in to his account—I have referred to one or two, and find that to be so—I think that was in March this year; I cannot tell you how early in March—I had a list given to me of some cheques, and I looked at one or two.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Were there cheques on the other side by May in favour of Myers? A. Yes, several, about the same time.
THOMAS MIDDLETON . (City policeman, 452). I saw Myers on the evening of 5th May, at his house, No. 4, Malvern Terrace, Islington—I told him that his attendance was required on 8th May at the Justice's room, Guild-hall—he said he certainly would come—he said that he had seen Mr. Taylor, and that Taylor said he was hard up for cash; that, in answer to that, he said it was rather late in the day, but he would try and manage to get it; upon which he discounted some bills, and got him 80l.—he did not say when this was—he said he supposed the balance of the money was made up by May—he then said that he had seen Mr. Drew, the accountant, and Mr. Drew had stated to him that he was a partner of Mr. May's, and Mr. May's liabilities were about 3, 000l., and he thought that they could arrange it for 7s. in the pound; that he (Myers) told them that he was no partner with May—he then said that he had spoken to May about the handkerchiefs, and he said, "Before you have anything to do with the handkerchiefs, I am an older draper than you, let me see them; I understand that Gorman is in the habit of sending up the goods different to samples"—he also said that he had seen Jary, and he had taken the key of the desk from Jary.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. Did he say to whom he had given the 80l.? A. To Taylor—I swear that—May's name was not mentioned with reference to the 80l.—Myers said that he had seen Taylor, and Taylor wanted some money, and he said it was rather too late in the day, but he would try and get enough, however he did get it—he did not name any day—he did not say whether Taylor came to his warehouse, or whether he went there; he said that Taylor had applied—he mentioned May's name afterwards, but not at all with reference to the application for the 80l.—he did not name any time when Jary gave him the key, I did not ask him—Myers deliberately gave me this conversation, I did not ask him for it—it was while I was at his house, before we went to the Magistrate—I was requested to go there by Mr. Morgan; he did not say anything about my having any conversation with Myers—I repeated the conversation to Mr. Morgan, I think the next day, it might have been the day after, I know it was within a week—I was examined once before the Magistrate before Myers was given into custody, I was examined more than twice altogether—I gave part of this conversation on one occasion, and part on another; I did not recollect it all at first, I had forgotten one part—I made no memorandum of the conversation, I gave the particulars to Mr. Morgan—I have not looked at those particulars more than once since, I have carried it in my head without refreshing my memory at all—I have not read it over this morning, I read it over last at Guildhall—I will swear I have not read it since—to the best of my belief I have told you all that Myers said; he did not, that I recollect, tell roe that he never saw the handkerchiefs at all—to the best of my belief he did not; I do not know whether he did, I cannot say—I do not think he said, "I never saw the handkerchiefs, nor did I know of their
arrival;" I think he did say he never saw the handkerchiefs—I do not recollect his saying, "Nor did I know of their arrival;" I could not swear that he did not say so—he might have said so, I cannot say whether he did, he spoke in such a flurried manner—I do not mean to say but he might have said it, but I have no recollection of it—I do not know that I have said that he did say so, I do not recollect it, I might have said it and forgotten it; I do not recollect the arrival being named—he never did tell me so, he only said he knew nothing of the handkerchiefs—I mean to pledge my oath that he did not say he did not know of their arrival.
Cross-examined by Mr. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You say that Myers stated that Taylor was hard up, or something of that kind? A. Yes—I am not mistaken in that—I might have said since my examination before the Magistrate that I might have been mistaken as to those words—I believe "hard up" was the term he used, it was something to that effect—I do not recollect saying that I might have been mistaken in what I said before the Magistrate, I will swear I have not; nothing of the kind—I have never had the least doubt that Taylor was the name he mentioned—I never said it was May—I swear that—I swear that I never said to anybody that it was May.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was not what Myers said, that he had seen May about the handkerchiefs, and that he had told May he understood Mr. Gorman was in the habit of sending goods unfair to sample? A. He did say so—he said he had seen May about the handkerchiefs, and that he had told May that he understood Mr. Gorman was in the habit of sending up goods unfair to sample.
THOMAS GORMAN . re-examined. The value of the goods for which Messrs. Meeking gave 403l. was 647l. 14s. 8d., and they were good value at that, that is deducting the 27 1/2—I had left an invoice to sell at 2 1/2.
(The prisoners Taylor and Myers received good characters.)
TAYLOR and MAY— GUILTY. on the Counts relating to Gorman only. —MYERS— NOT GUILTY . (The Jury strongly recommended Taylor to mercy on account of his previous good character; and they stated, that in their opinion Mr. Meeking did not exercise proper caution in purchasing the goods.)
TAYLOR— Confined Six Months. MAY— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Friday, June 19th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES LEE . I am assistant to Henry Gillett and others, jewellers, in Regent Street. On 2nd June, about 3 o'clock, the prisoner and a young female called—the prisoner requested to look at some rings—I showed him
some which were not very expensive; he wished to look at some others, and I showed him a case containing more valuable ones—he examined many of them, and the young woman tried them on her finger; at last they selected one which they preferred, and, it being too large for her finger, it was agreed that it should be altered, and she gave me her wedding ring as a guide for the size—it was to be ready the next day—they were to call between 12 and 1 o'clock—before he left, the prisoner gave his name, Le Blane; I did not ask any address—the young girl addressed him as father—he shrugged his shoulders, and said the ring she preferred would be too expensive, and she said, "You told me, father, you would give me a good ring"—they were not very long in the shop—I have not the slightest doubt that the prisoner is the person—I saw him in Scotland Yard on the Saturday afterwards, amongst other persons; I identified him immediately—he was not pointed out to me, I selected him.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Where is your shop? A. At No. 5, Regent Street—we had not a great many customers that day; it was what we consider a slack day—there were two other persons behind that particular counter—the other persons belong to other departments in the house, having no authority over that—it was the prisoner who gave the name.
COURT. Q. When did you see him in custody? A. On the Saturday after the Tuesday.
JOHN ALLEY . I am assistant to the prosecutors. I was behind the same counter when the case of rings was shown to the prisoner—I saw him and the young lady; I saw him more particularly—the case of rings was under my care and an assistant's—I had examined the case the same morning, and know how many rings it contained—I examined it next morning, and found two rings deficient, one the prisoner was to call for the next day, and a diamond half hoop, worth about 36l.—I did not show that ring to any one during that day—the prisoner appeared to be a foreigner.
COURT. Q. Do you know whether any one else showed that ring? A. No—there is another assistant, who is not here—I examined the rings between 9 and 10 o'clock—the prisoner came about 3 o'clock.
THOMAS FAIRFAX . I live in Bedford Street, Walworth, and keep a beer shop. On Thursday, 4th June, the prisoner called at my house to engage a house which I am agent for—he gave me his name, Le Blane—here is his own writing.
JONATHAN WHITCHER . (Policeman). On Saturday, 6th June, I took the prisoner, in the Borough Road—I took him to the police station in the Borough—I asked him where he was living; he said, "At No. 12, Flint Street"—I told him I had reason to doubt that—he said, "Yes, I do live there"—I said, "You must remain here while I go and see"—he then said, "I don't live there; I live at No. 6, Bedford Street, Walworth"—I told him the charge; he denied all knowledge of it—I took him to Scotland Yard, and sent for the prosecutor, who identified him.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
HARRY EMANUEL . I am a jeweller, at No. 5, Hanover Square. On the afternoon of 2nd June, about 2 o'clock, the prisoner came in, accompanied by a female, and asked to look at some rings—I showed them some, and
they objected to them, as not being sufficiently expensive—I showed them some more, and after taking them out of the case and putting them on the counter, they tried them on—I told them they had no occasion to try them, as the size could be altered—they desired to see some large stones; I declined showing them, but showed them an ornament with large diamonds in it—the prisoner selected one, and desired that one like that, and a ruby on each side of it, should be made into a ring for 150l.—he gave me his name as Le Blane, No. 27, Upper Seymour Street—I had shown him three boxes of rings, two were full, and one was deficient by two of the full complement—I sent my clerk to make inquiries—I examined the trays of rings, called them over by my stock book, and found that a diamond half hoop ring with five stones was missing, worth 45l.—I put the rings all out, and found there were sufficient rings to fill two of the boxes, and left the one that had had two with three out.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before, or the woman? A. No—I sent to Seymour Street—I replaced the rings about a quarter of an hour after the prisoner had left the shop—I began to call them over as soon as my clerk returned—I sent the clerk the instant the prisoner was gone—I called over the rings when my clerk came back, in about a quarter of an hour—No. 27, Seymour Street, is near Portman Square; my clerk could go there in a quarter of an hour—there was a gentleman in the shop, a customer, at the time the prisoner was there—in general we confine the rings to separate cases, one less expensive, one more so, and another the highest price—there was one other person in the shop, my father; the others had all gone to dinner, and in that time I replaced the rings—I should think the prisoner was in the shop six or seven minutes—I have never seen the woman again, nor the ring.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did the prisoner come back for the ring? A. He did not appoint that; I was to send it—I wrote the address from his dictation.
HUSKISSON CURTIS WYNN . I am clerk to the last witness. I remember the prisoner coming in—I saw Mr. Emanuel show him the rings—I went, immediately after the prisoner and the woman had left, to No. 27, Upper Seymour Street—I could not find a person of the name of Le Blane there—I did not go to more houses than one then, but I did afterwards—I have no doubt at all that the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
THOMAS GILLATHY . (City policeman, 493). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, May, 1856; James Beaumont, Convicted of stealing a purse and an order for the payment of money; Confined one year")—I was present—the prisoner is the man.
GUILTY.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
JAMES CAHILL PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
No evidence was offered against MARY JOSEPHINE CAHILL.
NOT GUILTY .
No evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. PAYNE. and CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES PHILIP TOWNSEND . I live at No. 3, Victoria Villas, Queen's Road, Dalston. I have a warehouse, where I carry on business as a haberdasher, at No. 1, Cripplegate Buildings, on the ground floor—there are two doors to the warehouse, one communicating directly with the street, the other opens into the passage of the house—on the evening of 13th May I left the warehouse about a quarter before 8 o'clock—both the doors were shut, and fast—the outer door was shut by my assistant—I shut and locked the side door, which opens into the passage—I and my warehouseman both left together—I returned the next morning about 9 o'clock—I found the door leading from my warehouse to the passage open, and the lock was completely destroyed—it had been opened by force—I examined my stock, but missed nothing.
JOHN RESTIEAUX . I live in Kingsland Road, and am warehouseman to the last witness. On the evening of 13th May he and I left the warehouse together about a quarter before 8 o'clock—I fastened the street door—I took it by the knocker, and pulled it—it locks itself—I returned the next morning at 20 minutes before 9 o'clock, and found the inner door broken open.
HENRY HEMMINGS . (City policeman, 148). On Wednesday evening, 13th May, I was on duty in Cripplegate Buildings. I know Mr. Harding's house, where Mr. Townsend's warehouse is—I tried the door at 20 minutes after 10 o'clock; it was then locked.
CHARLES HARDING . I am a schoolmaster, of No. 1, Cripplegate Buildings, where Mr. Townsend has his warehouse—one door which leads into the warehouse is not used by any one else, it is used exclusively by Mr. Townsend—the door leading to the passage and staircase is always left open in the day time—Mr. Townsend communicates with his warehouse by my passage and the outer door—on 13th May I left my house about half past 12 o'clock in the day—I returned in the evening about half past 10 o'clock—as I approached my house, I looked up at the front of it, and made an observation to my son—I stood about a minute looking up—there is a shop window in front of the warehouse—while I was in front, I saw the prisoner and another man come out from my house as I was just stepping from the road on the pavement—the prisoner partially closed the door—he held the knocker, and pulled it to as he went out—I followed them, and asked what business they had there—I followed them to Philip Lane, and approached the prisoner with the intention to stop him—he turned and threw a dark lantern in my face, which cut my face and made my nose bleed—he ran down Philip Lane, turned up Aldermanbury, and was stopped in Three Nun Court—I saw him stopped—the furthest distance I was from him in the course of the pursuit was three yards—I did not lose sight of him for a moment—when they got to Philip Lane, they separated—I followed the prisoner—after he had been taken to the station, I returned home, and examined the doors of the warehouse; I found the door which leads into the passage from the warehouse had been forced open—inside the premises
I found a wedge—on the top of the stain was a roll of sacks, and behind the street door a crowbar, which I gave to the officer who was with me—Mr. Townsend's warehouse is held separately from me—I am not his landlord.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you mean to say that you saw the prisoner come out of your house? A. Yes—I am quite certain of it—when he came out of the house, I was only the distance of the pathway from him, about two yards—I will pledge my oath that I never lost sight of him till the officer took him, not a minute; I was close to him; in feet I could have put my hand on him from the time he came out till he was taken—I did not see any other persons near my house at that time—I was about three yards from the prisoner when the officer took him—I was close to him—he was running as fast as he could.
GUILTY .*— Confined Twelve Months.
No evidence was offered.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM FORSYTH . I reside in Hope Cottage, Hammersmith. On Wednesday, 20th May, I was returning home from town—I called at the Sussex Arms about half past 3 o'clock—I had something to drink; I do not exactly know what, but the landlord will state better than I can; it was very trifling—I recollect several persons being there—they asked me to stand some beer, and I did, and paid for it—I cannot say whether either of the prisoners were there—I had that day received from my son two 5l. notes, and I had two sovereigns wrapped in each of the notes, and I had a separate sovereign for the purpose of change—when I was at the public house, I must have taken the notes out, but I have no distinct recollection—I had a puzzle purse—I should imagine I left that house in about ten minutes—I proceeded home, and called at the Windsor Castle Hotel—I merely went to gossip—I had nothing there—I should think I remained scarcely five minutes—a man came in and had some beer, but I do not know who it was—having stayed there about five minutes, I went towards home—I went to cross over to Hog Lane; the Hampshire Hog is at the corner—there is a urinal at the corner, but I did not go to that; I went on a little further—I had not used the urinal; I had not time to undo my trowsers—in going from the gateway further on, a hand was violently thrust over my right shoulder—my coat was buttoned, and the money was in the breast pocket of my coat, having no waistcoat on—an iron hand rushed over my shoulder, tearing my coat open, and the pocket and the money were bodily taken away—I was not injured, but I was thrown or fell on the ground—I was not struck—my back was towards the gateway, and towards the man who touched me; and before I recovered my feet, they were round the corner—before I got to the corner, they were out of sight—my coat is here; the pocket is torn out.
Cross-examined by MR. TALFOURD SALTER. Q. What time were you in the first house? A. I cannot tell you exactly; I think it was about 2 o'clock when I left Hanover Square, and rode to the Broadway, and then walked on—I should say it was about half past 3 o'clock when I went to the Sussex
Arms—Hog Lane is about 200 yards from the Windsor Castle—it turns out of the High Street—the Windsor Castle stands back on the right hand side—in getting from the Windsor Castle to Hog Lane, you pass down the High Street, having to cross over—the urinal is at that corner of Hog Lane which abuts on the High Street, just round the corner—a person passing the High Street, and looking down the lane, would necessarily see it—beyond the urinal there is a rail to prevent cattle going down—I think I was not so far as that rail; I was within the rail, I might be four or five yards down—I know the Hampshire Hog, at the corner—I know the path there—a person on the path could not see a very great distance down the lane, it is so narrow; he could see a few yards—if you were out in the road, you could see a little way down—in front of the Hampshire Hog, you could not see down the lane—the door of the Hampshire Hog is in the middle.
Q. Could a person in a cart at the door see a few yards down that lane? A. If the cart were drawn in front of that door, I think it would be almost impossible to look down Hog Lane—in that particular place the pavement is very wide indeed—the place where I stopped is rather to the left—it is on the same side of the lane as the Hampshire Hog is.
Q. How was it you happened to say in the first instance that you were attacked at the urinal? A. I was on my way, but it was not my purpose to use the urinal itself—I did not hear the deposition read with attention—it was read, but I paid little attention to any but my own—when I received the two 5l. notes from my son, I had no others in my pocket—I had not had any during that day nor for some time.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What time did you receive these notes? A. I believe about 2 o'clock—I got to the Sussex Arms, to the best of my recollection, about half past 3 o'clock—I had not been in other houses before that—I walked down to Piccadilly from Hanover Square—I know the notes were there when I paid the omnibus man, because my hand came in contact with them—there were two notes, and two sovereigns wrapped up in them.
JAMES INGRAM . I am landlord of the Sussex Arms. I know Mr. Forsyth—I recollect his coming into my house on Wednesday afternoon, 20th May—he produced a puzzle purse, and told me to examine it—I gave him change for a 5l. note—he had two notes in his hand—there were some persons there, and he treated them with some beer—the prisoner Saddington was one that was drinking the beer—Mr. Forsyth put the notes, when he took them out to show them to me, into his breast pocket—I do not think the other two prisoners were there—while Mr. Forsyth was there he said that he had lost his purse; afterwards he put his hand into his pocket, and said that he had found it—Saddington had previously been examining the purse—I have known Saddington, as an occasional customer, for a long time—he had asked me that day, about half an hour before Mr. Forsyth came, to give him credit for a pot of beer—he attempted to put his hand into Mr. Forsyth's pocket, but Mr. Forsyth would not let him.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. What time did Mr. Forsyth come to your house? A. About half past 3 o'clock—he was in about the same state that I always saw him—he was not in liquor—he might be a little the worse for liquor when he came in; he had 2d. worth of gin, he only drank half of it—he ordered some beer—there were some other men there—they could not help seeing the notes that Mr. Forsyth produced—I cannot take upon myself to say how many persons saw them—there were
four or five there—I know pretty well the usual persons who attend my public house.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. When did the prosecutor complain that he had lost his purse? A. When he had been there some time—a man raised his hand and attempted to put his hand into Mr. Forsyth's pocket, but Mr. Forsyth drew back, and said he did not allow any person to put his hand into his pocket—Mr. Forsyth was in my house about twenty minutes—all who were there were drinking—they did not all leave off when Mr. Forsyth left—Mr. Forsyth took out the two notes, but I did not take them in my hand—they were open—I told him I could not change—there were no sovereigns in them—he folded them up again, and put them into his pocket—I never saw any gold—I did not see enough to say that they were real Bank of England notes—I have known Saddington by sight for four, or five, or six years—he was in the habit of coming to my house occasionally—about 3 o'clock that day he asked me to trust him a pot of beer—I never saw that Mr. Forsyth was a little eccentric.
WILLIAM FORSYTH . re-examined. This is my coat, my name is is it—here is where the pocket was that had the money in—here is the left side of the coat where the hand entered—the pocket extended down here, but the whole of the pocket is torn out.
JOSEPH WILTSHIRE . I am potman at the Windsor Castle. On Wednesday afternoon, the 20th, Mr. Forsyth came, and soon afterwards Saddington came in for a glass of ale, and asked the barmaid whether that gentleman, nodding to Mr. Forsyth, was not a little wrong in his head—after he had drank his ale he went outside, and stood talking to the prisoner Barker—they stood talking about ten minutes before Mr. Forsyth went out—Mr. Forsyth went down towards home—Saddington went in the same direction—I did not see where Barker went—I did not see Barker at all—I was against the window, outside the house—I walked down to the post; I could see both ways of the road—the post is down on the kerb in front of the house—about a quarter of an hour afterwards I saw Mr. Forsyth come back—he made some complaint—his coat was torn, and he said that he had been robbed.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. Did you serve Mr. Forsyth? A. No. the barmaid—Mr. Forsyth was in about a quarter of an hour—I was not outside a great while, about five minutes—there were a good many people passing—when Saddington came out, he went on the same side that the Windsor Castle is—I was standing on the south side of the Windsor Castle, and they were standing in the other direction—I did not notice any other man standing there.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How many persons were in the Windsor Castle? A. The barmaid, and the landlord, and Mr. Forsyth, and Saddington—it was about 5 o'clock—Mr. Forsyth was away about a quarter of an hour—I saw Saddington go in the same direction that the prosecutor did, and after that I did not see Saddington again.
GEORGE JAMES . I am a carrier. On 20th May, about 5 o'clock, I was in my cart, facing the Hampshire Hog—I saw Mr. Forsyth go down Hog Lane, and directly afterwards I saw Saddington and Barker go down the lane—I could not see down the lane—I was five or six yards from the entrance of the lane—Saddington and Barker returned in two or three minutes in a great hurry, and went towards London.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. Would coming towards London be towards the Windsor Castle? A. Yes—I do not put up my home and
cart near that lane—I was coming back from London—we had done our work, and were going home—I was sitting in the cart with the reins in my hand—I had not my face towards the Windsor Castle—I think these men were down the lane two or three minutes—I am positive they were not down ten minutes.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Who do you carry for now? A. For Mr. Hiscox, a carrier, at Kew, every day, except Sundays—my wages are 2s. a day—I live at Hammersmith—I do not go every morning to Kew—I go to the Coach and Horses, and meet the cart there about 10 o'clock—I am out with the cart till 5 o'clock in the evening—I carry things all over London, boxes, and parcels of all descriptions—the cart is loaded when I meet it; my master's son is with me—we deliver the goods in London—I drive the cart generally—we deliver the parcels at various places—I do not know where they are taken up—I meet the cart after it has been loaded with the things—the last day I was at work was on Monday—I met the cart at 10 o'clock that morning—I cannot tell any one place where I delivered a parcel on Monday without I had the list—I cannot tell how many places I delivered parcels at—I cannot tell any place I delivered a parcel at on Saturday, I have not kept that in my head—I have delivered parcels to the Duchess of Cambridge, at St. James's Palace—I cannot say when I delivered one to her—I cannot tell any other place, we go to so many—before I was with Mr. Hiscox I was with Mr. Pope, a carrier, at Hammersmith—I was with him for twenty-one years, carrying the same sort of things as I do for Mr. Hiscox—I left Mr. Pope because he did not give me wages enough; he gave me 17s. a week—it is not a day that I work for Mr. Hiscox—after I have left Mr. Hiscox, I do a job if I can get it, loading or unloading goods, or anything—I had some perquisites when at Mr. Pope's, but not so good as it was at first.
Q. How came you to mention this circumstance? A. I heard it spoken of at this public house the next night—I heard two men had been taken up—I was not examined the first day the men were examined—I do not know on what day I was first examined, I did not keep it in my head—I know I was at the Court three times—I gave evidence twice—I believe, before I gave my evidence, this case had been remanded twice—I heard the names of these men mentioned in the public house before I said a word about it—a policeman came to me, and said that he wanted me to tell him what I saw—he did not take me to where these two men were in custody—he said he had Saddington and Barker in custody—I had known them before for years.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was your attention called to this the next night in the public house? A. Yes, and I said I saw these two men.
WILLIAM FENNIMORE . (Policeman, T 219). On Thursday morning, 21st May, I was on duty at Hammersmith, about a quarter past 6 o'clock—I saw Saddington—I was not aware of his name—I said, "Well, Contractor"—he stopped, and I said, "You have a considerable sum of money about you, have not you?"—he said, "Yes"—he was much the worse for liquor—I asked him how he came by the money—he said by work—I asked him where, he said for Mr. Lee and Jardin, at the coal wharf, against the Hand and Flower—I said that I did not believe it, and he must go with me to the station, and stop there till I went to the Hand and Flower to make inquiries—he said that he would not go with me to the station, but would go and see Captain Hammerton—he said that he had a sister married last Sunday, and he had left 30s. a week in Captain Hammerton's hands till it had amounted
to 8l. 1s.—I took him to the station, left him there, and went to Captain Hammerton's house—he came and spoke to me—I came back to Saddington, and he said, "You have found it all right, mate"—I said, "No, I did not, "I searched him, and found this 5l. note, 11s. in silver, and 5 1/2 d. in coppers—this note is in the same state as I received it from the prisoner.
SAMUEL HOWARD . I was landlord of the White Horse public house, at Shepherd's Bush. On 20th May, William Rapkins came to me for change for this 5l. note—he came with Mrs. Ingledew's compliments, and she would be obliged if I would give her change—I gave him five sovereigns.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. How long did you keep this note? A. Till the following day—I put it into my bag, where I usually keep them—this is the mark I put upon it; "Mrs. Ingledew."
WILLIAM RAPKINS . I live with Mrs. Ingledew, at Shepherd's Bush. On 20th May, I was sitting in the room at Mrs. Ingledew's, and Quin called me out, and said, "Will you go down to the White Horse, and get me change for a 5l. note, and I will give you a shilling for doing so?"—I said, "Yes"—he told me if they asked who it was for, to say for Mrs. Ingledew—I went to Mr. Howard's, at the White Horse, and got five sovereigns in change—I do not know the note—I met Quin against where he gave me the note, and gave him the money, and I got my shilling—Barker then came up, and I left them together—they appeared to be speaking—they were close together.
WILLIAM MANSELL . (Policeman, T 187). On Thursday, 21st May, from information, I went to Mr. Howard, and received this 5l. note from him—I then went and apprehended Quin; I asked him how he had become possessed of the note which he gave the lad to get changed—he told me that Barker gave it him to get change—I took him into custody, and on the following morning I apprehended Barker; I told him it was for being concerned with Saddington in stealing two 5l. notes from Mr. Forsyth, one of which had been found in his possession; and I asked him how he became possessed of it—he said that he found it in Bradwell, on Wednesday, and he gave it to Quin to get changed, and Quin returned him four sovereigns, keeping one for himself—I took him into custody.
JASPER SIMMONS . I draw hay for a gentleman. On 20th May I was at Notting Hill, just through the toll gate, unloading some clover hay, about 10 minutes before 7 o'clock in the evening—I saw Saddington and Barker, they said that they had got some bits of paper, and asked me to look at them, and they pulled out two 5l. notes—I am quite sure of it, because I took them in my hand, and looked at them—they asked me if I could do anything with them—I said, "No," I did not think they were good—I told them they were not worth a penny to me, for I had been in a bother once before, and I should not get in a bother with other people, and should have nothing at all to do with them—they said they had got them, and a little hard stuff; of a gentleman from Hammersmith, and they should not have thought that gentleman had any bad money about him—there was a cut on the right end of one of the notes, just by the water mark—I think this is the note by the cut, but the notes were very clean when I saw them—I looked at them particularly—I knew they were good notes.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you know a good note from another? A. Yes; I take a good many—I was in a little bother once, I sold some stolen clover for a man—I did not know it was stolen—I cannot swear these notes are the same—one of these is like one of them—I do not know whether this is the same.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. How long had you known Saddington and Barker? A. I never saw Saddington before—this was not in a house—it was in the open street, near Mr. Stacker's, the butcher's shop—it was on the pavement on which people were passing—it did not occupy two minutes—it was Barker asked me first to change them—they both said they got them from a gentleman at Hammersmith, and a little hard stuff—they both said the same words, and at the same time—I dare say Barker knew that I had got in a little bother before—my trouble was for twelve months; I suffered it at the House of Correction—I was convicted at Westminster, I believe—there would not have been a difficulty in passing these notes, not at all; I could have given them to my master—my trouble was nearly three years ago—the note looked as if it was cut when I saw it—it looked very clean and bright.
MR. GENT. Q. Can you say that they were 5l. notes? A. Yes—I told them the true reason why I did not take them—Saddington had the notes, and I gave them back to him, neither of them was as this one is now.
WILLIAM FORSYTH ., the younger. I am a tailor, residing in Hanover Square. I am the son of the prosecutor—I saw him on Wednesday, 20th May, about half past 12 o'clock in the day—I gave him two 5l. Bank of England notes, and three sovereigns; he put them into his pocket—I did not make any mark on the notes I gave him—I received three notes of Sir Belford Wilson, No. 130, Park Street, and the two I gave my father were two of them; they were apparently new.
CHARLES BEARD . I am clerk to Hopkinson and Co., the bankers, in Regent Street; Sir Belford Wilson has an account at our house. On 19th May I paid him 50l. for a cheque—I have the book with the entry; I paid him four 5l. notes—these notes are two of the four—they were clean and smooth then. (Barker received a good character.)
SADDINGTON and BARKER— GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
QUIN— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution.
AMELIA BAYLIS . I am the wife of James Baylis, a police constable. We live at No. 7, Little Russell Street—we lodge in the third floor back room, the prisoner lodged in the second floor back room—I was coming down stairs at about 20 minutes after 10 o'clock on Saturday night, 23rd May, and I heard the prisoner's wife cry, "Oh! dear"—I am sure it was her voice—I did not take any notice, but went a few steps further, and I heard her cry, "Murder!"—I ran down stairs to the landlady, and Mrs. Evans and I went up stairs together—she opened the door, and went in; I followed, and saw the prisoner and his wife on the hearth rug—she was lying down, and he was kneeling on her with a knife in his hand—I saw the knife—I was very much frightened—I ran out, and called a constable—when I returned back to the house, I saw the prisoner in custody of my husband—the prisoner's wife was brought down stairs—I did not see the blood on the knife.
ELIZABETH EVANS . I am a widow, and live at No. 7, Little Russell Street. The prisoner and his wife lodged on the second floor for about a fortnight—on the night of 23rd May the last witness came and said something to me—I went up with her, and opened the door of the prisoner's room; I saw him and his wife on the floor, struggling—I tried to get in
between them—the prisoner had this knife in his hand; it is one of mine—I did not see him cut her with it—she clung to me for help—she took hold of my arm, but I was so alarmed that I broke from her, and she caught the skirt of my dress—I went to the door, but it was shut—I found blood on my dress—the prisoner's wife was afterwards brought down stairs—I saw a wound; I believe it was on the right side of the throat—it was bleeding when she came down, but I think the exertion stopped it—I did not see the prisoner there—he was almost a stranger to me—I should say he was sober—as far as I am aware, I should say that he and his wife lived on very good terms—he was a very steady, well conducted young man—I believe they had been married about three weeks.
JAMES BAYLISS . (Policeman, F 85). On that evening, at a little after 10 o'clock, I was returning from duty—when I got home, the door was open—I took a light from the landlady, and ran up stairs—I heard a female's voice crying, "Save me, save me!"—when I got to the second floor, I saw the prisoner and the woman both on the landing together; I saw the prisoner lying on the woman—he had this knife in his hand; his arm was raised, and as I turned I saw him stab her—I distinctly saw the knife go into her neck, and I saw him turn the knife round—it appeared to me to go through her neck—it went up to the hilt—I pulled him off her, seized his wrist, and wrested the knife from him—it fell down, and I took him to the station—in the passage I met my wife—I asked about. the knife, and the prisoner said, "Go up and fetch it," or "Go up and see"—I saw the state the prisoner's wife was in; her hair was all down, and her hair and clothes all blood—I went into the room, and found pools of blood there—I gave the woman to the surgeon of King's College Hospital—the prisoner appeared to be sober.
Prisoner. You said that you did not see the knife in my hand? Witness. I saw you with your hand raised; your left arm was on the side of her head, and your right arm uplifted—I saw you strike the knife into her neck, on the right side.
EMILY GEARY . I am the prisoner's wife. I was married to him on 4th May—on Saturday night, 23rd May, I had been walking out with him in the City—there had been some wrangling about a concert I wished to go to, and he said he would not—he said that he would take me to another place, and I said that I would not go—I sat down upon a step, and would not get up—when we got to our door, I said that I would not go up stain at first, and then I did go—I said that I would leave him in the morning, I would not stop with him—I was turning to hang my bonnet up, and he laid hold of me—when I turned, I saw he had a knife in his hand—I do not know whether he took it from the cupboard, or whether he was cutting a piece of wood—I told him I would not stop any longer with him—he laid hold of me, and dug the knife into my hand—the landlady came into the room—I clung to her, and she pushed me away—I clung to her dress—I got to the landing, and the prisoner used the knife—he stabbed me in the right side of my neck and my hand—I was taken on a stretcher to the hospital—when the woman came with a light, she said, "Here comes the policeman," and the prisoner dropped the knife—the policeman did not see him with the knife in his hand—I had been aggravating the prisoner all the week, and never got him his victuals ready—I had said before that I should leave him.
COURT. Q. On that day what had you aggravated him with? A.
By refusing to go up stairs, and saying I would leave him the next morning—I am nineteen years old, my husband is twenty-three.
CHRISTOPHER HEATH . I am house surgeon at King's College Hospital. The prosecutrix was brought there about 11 o'clock that night—I found on the right side of her neck, about an inch and a half below the jaw, a wound an inch and three quarters deep, communicating with the wind pipe and gullet, and above and below this two small superficial cuts below the right ear, a ragged cut extending under the skin, some small cuts on the left side of the neck, and two small cuts at the back of the right hand—the main cut went as far as the wind pipe, it communicated with the wind pipe; the air came out as she breathed—it was very dangerous—her life was in danger during that night—she rallied afterwards, and has been convalescent ever since—she is quite well now.
Prisoner. I have a witness to speak of my wife's character during the time I was married; I procured all I could; she was dissatisfied with it; I was driven to a state of madness; I did not know what I was doing.
The prisoner called
CHARLES CARCAS . I know the prisoner's wife—I did not see her the day she went to the hospital—I had been acquainted with her for nine or ten months previous to her marriage—I had seen her on the Thursday previous to this—she and another female left me in Brick Lane about 6 o'clock in the evening; they were both in a state of intoxication.
Prisoner. This is the man that she was after when she went away from me. The prisoner received a good character.
GUILTY. on 2nd Count.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Six Years Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Friday, June 19th, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir JOHN MUSGROVE., Bart., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common. Serjeant and the Second Jury.
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. RIBTON. the Defence.
NOT GUILTY .
733. WILLIAM KING (20) , Burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Sinclair, at St. Pancras, and stealing therein 1 bottle of brandy, 1 bottle of gin, 2 bottles of sherry, 1 brooch, and other goods, value 33s., and 30s. in money; his property.
MESSRS. RIBTON. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH SINCLAIR . I keep the Southampton Arms, High Street, Camden Town, in the parish of St. Pancras. On 24th May, about 6 o'clock, I was called up, and found three policeman in the house—I found the top sash of the coffee room window down, and a desk broken open in the bar, and also some drawers in the back parlour—I did not miss anything then—I went to the station, and saw a bottle of brandy, a bottle of gin, and other articles—these two small bottles of sherry, have my name stamped on the glass—this umbrella is mine, but the handle has been broken since—these two pencil cases were in a desk which was broken open; some few things tied
up in paper were taken from a cupboard—my housekeeper had a pair of spectacles like these; she is not here—the house and the articles were all safe at 12 o'clock on the night before, and the window shut.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you sell these bottles with your name on them? A. Yes, any one coming to the bar can buy one—my initial, "S," is on these two pencil cases, and I know them from their general appearance, and also the malachite brooch—I know my umbrella by having had a new stick put to it—the plate drawer, which was not looked, was undisturbed.
EZEKIEL SHEARMAN . (Policeman). On 25th May, at a quarter past 4 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Portpool Lane, and saw the prisoner—I took two bottles and a screw driver from him, and afterwards these other articles—he said nothing—he was sober.
JOHN CHAPLIN . I live with the prosecutor. I went to bed on Saturday night at 20 minutes after 12 o'clock, and left all safe, and the coffee room window shut, and, to the best of my recollection, fastened.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you find any door or window open? A. They had pulled the sash down, and there were marks of prising the shutters outside—I cannot say whether they got over the shutters; they are nine inches from the top.
GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
EASTMAN TRENCH . I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, June, 1856; William Cannon, Convicted, on his own confession, of burglary; Confined nine months")—I was present—the prisoner is the man.
GUILTY.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
734. THOMAS RAMBY (34), EDWARD WILSON (41), and JAMES PLUCKROSE (45) , Stealing 54 lbs. weight of beef, value 25s.; and, within six months, 129 lbs. weight of beef, and 25 lbs. weight of beef; the property of Henry Hicks and others, the masters of Ramby and Wilson.—2nd COUNT., charging Pluckrose with receiving.
MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY HICKS . I am in partnership with my father, a meat salesman, in Newgate Market. Ramby and Wilson were in our employment many years; Ramby was a collector of money, and had also to hang up in the shop—Wilson was scale man; it was his business to weigh the meat and deliver it to the buyer, to stand between the sold and unsold goods—after meat is sold and weighed, it is in his charge—he would not notice the name of the consignor at all—on 23rd March I received a communication from Newbiggin, a butcher, in consequence of which I went that evening to his house in Harford Place, and saw two flanks of beef there; one was part of a consignment from Goocher, of Ipswich, and the other was Scotch, I could not swear to it—Mr. Goocher had consigned beef to us on that very day, and the flanks could not be made right, but I did not count them over—on Friday, 24th April, I missed four quarters of Scotch beef, consigned by Mr. Liddingham, of Huntley, which were received that morning in my presence, between 5 and 7 o'clock—I sold two quarters of beef, about 7 o'clock, to a person named Gregory, and when he came to weigh his quarters, between 7 and 8 o'clock, he could only find one, and we let him take another, to make up the one that was short—Ramby was there, and Wilson also—I went down to Newbiggin next evening, and saw a quarter of beef, one of the same lot—on 6th May I called in Ramby and Wilson; I told Ramby that it was my painful duty to give him into custody, and
Wilson also, though I did it with much pain and sorrow, but there had been so serious a defalcation of meat abstracted, that it was impossible for me to look over it—they said that they knew nothing about it—I said that Pluckrose, who had been the receiver of the meat, was already in custody, and I could not proceed against him without putting them with him; that they had been watched for several weeks, and opportunities had occurred from pressure of business and every one being greatly engaged; that they had planted meat by the side door, and that it had been Ramby's custom to seek Pluckrose and tell him that something was ready; that he then sent his lad or a porter named Slark, and Wilson or Ramby had delivered the meat to these porters when they came, and received from Pluckrose a portion of the proceeds—they were very much affected, and so was I; perhaps I was more so than they—they begged I would think of their families—I told them I had thought of them while this was going on—I showed them a written list of meat delivered to Pluckrose, in which were two flanks of beef on 23rd March, four quarters on 24th April, and a flank on 1st May—Russell, an officer, was present, and I gave them into custody—Pluckrose has a stall at the other corner of the market; we are south-west, and he is north-east—I have never sold him any meat.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was there any mark on this meat? A. We know Goochers meat the same as a tailor does his clothes; there is a peculiarity in the cutting of it; we have paid them thousands of pounds—it was conveyed to us in hampers containing 70 stone—I should know that the hampers came from Goocher, the name is painted on them; but I was not there on Monday when the consignment arrived, I was in the cattle market—I only know from my books what it contained, and they are not here, and if they were the entry would not be in my writing—there are two Goochers at Ipswich; they are brothers; but the other never consigned meat to us; he does to other people—the quantity we receive of a morning is very various, from 50l. to 400l.; from 100 stone to 2, 000 stone—the flanks come on the hind quarters; we receive about twenty or thirty of a morning—a flank weighs from 16 lbs. to 40 lbs.—on 24th April we missed a fore quarter of Scotch beef, when we made the book up at 10 o'clock, that came from Liddingham; we received fourteen or sixteen fore quarters from him that morning, and I know what we sold—I do not know what my father sold, but the book will show—I sold two quarters to Mr. Gregory; there was a lot tied together, fourteen or sixteen quarters, all from Mr. Liddingham, and he picked two out; they were all Scotch—he had marked them with a skewer, and I told Ramby to come for them in half an hour, and then I could only find one—Ramby was to take them to the usual place, inside the shop—all the meat that is sold is taken in there, as fast as it can be—a large quantity of unsold meat is put there also, and they are very often mixed up together—they take the unsold meat out again to sell it—when Gregory came back we only found one marked quarter, the other was inquired for, and could not be found, and he took another—there have been a good many mistakes occur of that kind, and when the customer cannot get what he originally purchased, he frequently takes something else—Ramby has been in our employment twelve years, and Wilson more than that—it has happened that mistakes occur in delivering meat to a wrong consignee—if we find meat at our house consigned to another person, we send it to him—it happens once in a year that the meat has been all taken out and mixed with the meat of other consignees, as well as with our own—my clerk and myself keep the accounts—if a stranger, a butcher,
comes to get a quarter of beef he would come to me or my father first to buy it, and not to Ramby, or Wilson—we are always there of a morning—I am there about 6 o'clock, business begins about 5—an hour's business takes place before I get there, but my father is there—the place may be opened at 3 o'clock, but no one would sell meat then—Ramby's special duty is to carry meat into the sold room, and to hang it up on it's arrival—Wilson carries it in to the customer.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Is it foreign beef that you get from Goocher? A. No—we have no other beef from Ipswich; Goocher is the only customer we have—it was Ramby's duty to hang meat on the scale, and Wilson's to weigh it, and I think he ticked it off—he has been there nearly twenty years.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. How many are actually engaged there? A. Only myself and my father—we open at 5 o'clock, and some mornings at 4—my father is generally there first—it would be a great liberty if anybody was to sell before I or my father came, one which is never taken, and very probably it would be a great mistake, as the price varies so much—mistakes will occur, and we have had disagreements with Mr. Goocher with respect to the weight of mutton—there was an account in which there was 220 stone deficient; but I think you had better not ask me questions about it, for the good of your client; I am not vindictive, and do not wish to press hard upon him—flanks of beef from different parts of Scotland are not all dressed alike—they would be differently dressed from Huntley and from Aberdeen, they are cut lower in the hind quarter in Scotland; in Ipswich they pretty well divide it—I can tell the various quarters of the country they come from—Pluckrose is in a small way of business in the market—I know very little of him—I cannot say that I ever sold him meat; I do not recollect selling him any for years, he tried to buy some of me once—there are several persons named Pluckrose, two or three brothers; and if they send their meat to be sold they send their man with it—I cannot say that I have sold meat for him, I have sold meat in the name of Pluckrose—he has not bought hind quarters of me repeatedly; he cheapened a carcass of beef of me at the time we were watching for this transaction, and he said that those who bought for more than they could pay for, got into the House of Correction—that was between 23rd March and 23rd April—we did not deal—I did not know his name at that time, but I will swear I have not sold him quarters of beef repeatedly—I saw a good deal during the time I was watching, and I hope you will not ask me anything about it, because my eyes stopped a great many transactions—I did not see Pluckrose taking anything from our shop, or conveying anything away, or removing anything—I have seen him go into the public house; that is a very common thing—persons make bargains there for their own ruin; I never was in one, and I do not allow any one in my establishment to go in—I was horsewhipped for going in, about twenty-five years ago, and I think if other people were served the same it would be a good thing—I think I deserved it, and I would serve my son the same if I caught him in.
MR. RIBTON. Q. How long has Ramby been with you? A. Many years—I have trusted him with hundreds of pounds to deposit at our banker's up to 1, 000l., and the banking book has remained in his possession—I had unlimited confidence in him—I have never found anything wrong as regards the money.
MR. COOPER. Q. Will you say the same of Wilson? A. No.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Were they both confidential servants? A. They
had both been in our service many years—when neither my father nor myself were at the shop, Ramby was in charge, but my father generally endeavoured to be there—it was Ramby's duty to put the carcasses into the scale—at the time the purchaser complained of there being one instead of two, a communication had been made to me—we find that the short weight is very much less since the prisoners have been in custody; the meat is consigned to us in carcasses and large pieces, and we have to cut them to suit different butchers—in the first three months of this year the short weight has been about 3 stone in the cwt, and since the prisoners have been in custody it has been about 5 lbs.
COURT. Q. Did you read the list to the men? A. Yes—this (produced) is it—before I read it to them I said that I had to charge them with stealing, on these dates, these articles.
MR. RIBTON. Q. Were they alone? A. Russell, the detective officer, was present, and our clerk—I believe Ramby spoke first—I think you had better not ask me what they said—Wilson said that he had a wife and seven children, and Ramby said that he had a wife and two children—it was immediately before they spoke of their families that I read the list.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did they deny it until you told them that they had been watched? A. Yes.
EDWARD GEORGE NEWBIGGIN . I am a butcher, of No. 2, Harford Place, Haggerstone, and have dealt with Pluckrose for meat since last summer. On 23rd March, in consequence of some suspicions I had, I made a communication to Mr. Hicks, and he came and saw two flanks of beef at my place, which had been put into my cart that morning—Pluckrose had told me that his boy would put them in—I saw Pluckrose that morning near his stall, in Newgate Market, near the Red Cross public house—I do not think I saw either of the other prisoners there that morning—I left him there, went round the market, and met him again, and he told me that there were two flanks of beef put into my cart by his boy, and that they were coming from Mr. Hicks's—I shortly afterwards went to my cart, and saw the two flanks of beef, which I afterwards showed to Mr. Hicks—I paid the boy 6d., and Pluckrose told me they weighed 6 stone 6 1/2 lbs.—I paid Pluckrose for them the full market price—I on each occasion paid the ordinary price—I had before that occasionally seen the other men in Pluckrose's company; I have seen them go in and out of the Red Cross public house, and drink with Pluckrose occasionally—I do not remember seeing them that morning, or that day—in the evening Pluckrose called at my shop to see the flanks weighed—that is not the ordinary practice; meat is generally weighed in the market—he did not receive the money till the following Sunday morning—on 24th April I saw Pluckrose again at his stall in the market, and while I was there I believe Ramby went into the Red Cross public house with Pluckrose; they came out together, I think—Pluckrose told me that he should have something for me that morning, some beef—I saw him again three or four hours afterwards, and he said that he had been down to my cart with a very good fore quarter of beef, which came from Mr. Hicks's, and he had been down to my cart that I should not have to pay a porter for putting it in, and would call in the evening and see it weighed—I gave him 3s. a stone for it—I saw him next morning, and told him that it weighed 16 stone 1lb.—he said that Hicks's man told him that it weighed 17 stone 4lbs.—on the following Sunday he came into my shop, and I paid him some money for some meat which I had previously owed him for—that money included the 16 stone—he brought me a bill, which Mr. Russell has, as he took it away again at
night, having the quarter of beef in it—I made entries of all these transacttions in my books—this (produced) is the bill he first gave me; it does not contain the 16 stone 1lb.—he took it away, and gave me this other on the next morning, including the 16 stone 1lb. (produced)—that is the only difference in them—it is adopting the weight which I had stated—when he took away the first bill he said that his brother had made a mistake, that he had omitted to put in the quarter of beef from Hicks's, and he gave me this next morning, which I afterwards showed to Mr. Hicks and his son—on Friday, 1st May, I was at the market again, and bought a sheep and some other things of Pluckrose—I saw Wilson at the Red Cross—he said nothing to me when he came out—he told Pluckrose that he had left him something to drink; Pluckrose was then at his stall outside—Pluckrose told me he should want to see me again, as there would be a flank or two of beef, but he should want to see Hicks's man first, and that the boy would put it into the cart—I waited some time at the cart—I had been about the market, and I went back to Pluckrose, who was in the tap room at the Red Cross at that time—he gave me a bundle, with a piece of beef tied up in it, a cloth—he had got it in the tap room with him, and the boy put it into the cart for him, and Pluckrose said that he would call in the afternoon and see it weighed, but, instead of coming himself, his brother came—I found in the cloth a flank of beef, weighing 2 stone 4 1/2 bs—I saw Pluckrose at his shop next morning; he asked me the weight, and I told him; he said that it ought to have weighed 4 stone; that the scaleman told him so, and that it came from Goocher, at Ipswich—his brother saw it weighed—there was a "G" on the cloth in black—he told me that the skirt was in it—I said that it was not—he said that the scaleman told him it was—I believe he said that he was to pay for it, I understood him, to Wilson, but it is so long ago I do not recollect—this bill is 11s. 1d., and I objected to the price—I showed that meat to young Mr. Hicks, and the cloth also—Pluckrose gave me this bill of the beef (produced)—I saw him again the following Sunday; something was said about his charging too much, and he agreed that I should have it at 4s. a stone—when I had meat of this description it was always carried to to my shop before it was weighed, as far as I know—the other meat that I bought of him was weighed at the scale opposite his stall—on Monday morning, 4th May, I again saw Pluckrose—he said that he should have nothing more to do with any meat from Hicks's, for he had heard that there would be a regular smash there before long, and he should get into trouble if he was found out—next morning he said that he had stopped just in time, as a friend had told him that there were three policemen in private clothes watching him, and that one of them had been locked up in Mr. Hicks's shop all night watching.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. Did he tell you that voluntarily? A. Yes, he had told me where the meat came from—I was buying it at the regular trade price—I knew that Mr. Hicks was a well known dealer in the market—Pluckrose had told me where the meat had come from, and I might have gone to Hicks's and ascertained it if I had liked, but I did not—this occurred about 8 o'clock in the morning, after both the Mr. Hicks were on the premises—I have had a good deal of dealing with Pluckrose—I have sometimes bought 10l. and sometimes 5l. worth of meat of him in the last six months—I will not swear that none of that was weighed on my premises—meat has been weighed at my house on several occasions, but that did not come from Hicks's—I have seen that six or seven times—it has been beef—I have not weighed other meat—I owed him at this time about 7l.—I have
not offered to pay him that, I have not had the opportunity—I swear that it is not more than 10l., nor yet 8l., to the best of my recollection—I have my books here (looking at them), I paid him 7l. 10s. off of 11l. 7s., which leaves 3l. 19s. 5d.; and besides that, I owed him 5l. 2s. 8d.—I have no note in my book as to where the meat was weighed, but merely the weight—on 24th April, he said that he wanted to see me presently, and I saw him about three quarters of an hour afterwards—he did not tell me that he had been down to my cart with a porter with 4 lbs. of beef from Hicks's—he said he had been down to my cart with a fore quarter, and that he went to save the expense of a porter—he did not say that he had been down with a porter—(The witness's deposition being read, stated that he went down with a porter)—I did not say so—I said that he went himself to save the expense of a porter—I did not notice that; when the deposition was read over I signed it; I did not notice the addition of one sentence, and the absence of another—I was about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour being examined—I cannot say exactly—my evidence was not taken by the attorney before I went before the Magistrate—I was asked what I knew about the case—I did not see it taken down—I answered the questions—I saw nobody writing—there was no one in the room but Mr. Wontner, Russell, Spital, and myself—I will not swear that no writing was going on—Mr. Wontner appeared before the Magistrate and asked questions—I think he had his paper before him then, and appeared to be reading—I cannot swear, but I think I told Mr. Wontner that Pluckrose said that he had gone himself and saved me the expense of a porter—on one occasion he charged me 2d. a stone more than the market price—he sometimes told me of other people to whom he sold meat, but their meat was weighed in the market—I do not think my brother owes him a large sum of money—I do not know what he owes—I have heard Pluckrose say that he owes him money, but I have not heard my brother say so—on one occasion, when he came from Hicks's, he said that the scaleman told him that the skirt was in the bundle—I have bought meat of old Mr. Hicks, and of Mr. Henry Hicks, of a morning, but not of anybody else—I have dealt there perhaps half a score or a score of times—there is a class of middle men in the market who buy and sell again—I buy of them occasionally without asking them where it comes from—I should not have asked Pluckrose where it came from if he had not told me.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Where is the Red Cross public house? A. In Newgate Market—it is the resort of all butchers.
MR. METCALFE. Q. My friend asked you whether you went to Hicks's to inquire if the meat came from there. A. I went to the New Cattle Market and told Mr. Hicks, in order to avoid drawing the attention of the men—none of the money that I now owe to Pluckrose was owing to him when I made that communication, it has all occurred since.
GEORGE MARTIN . I am clerk to the Magistrates at Guildhall, and was acting as such at the time these depositions were taken. I recollect Newbiggin being examined—after he had given his evidence, Pluckrose was asked by the Alderman whether he had any question to put to the witness, and he immediately said, turning round to Newbiggin, "You know's where it came from from the first."
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. Did you take the examination? A. Yes, I have had a good deal of experience—I took down what Newbiggin said, and as nearly as I can recollect, the words he used—he said, "On 24th April, I saw the prisoner Pluckrose at his own stall outside the Red Cross public house; while I was there, I saw the prisoner Ramby go into the
Red Cross public house with Pluckrose, and saw Pluckrose come out again, and he told me he should want to see me presently; I saw him about three quarters of an hour afterwards, and he told me he had been down to my cart with a porter with four quarters of beef from Hicks's, and I was to weigh it, and not cheat him in the weight"—I am prepared to say that that is the substance of the words he used—he did not say that he had been down to the cart himself with the meat, and had saved him the expense of a porter, or I should have written it down.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Is there any erasure? A. Yes, I have struck out the words "4 quarters," but I should recollect the circumstance, independent of my note—I struck that out, and went on with the word "porter."
WILLIAM HAWKES . I am a journeyman butcher, and live at No. 17, Rawstone Place, Clerkenwell Green. I am fourteen years old—I was in Pluckrose's service when he was taken into custody, and had been for some time—I have been to Hicks's for meat, at his direction, and taken it to Newbiggin's cart—the first time I went was in March—I fetched two flanks of beef, and put them into the cart—when I went to Mr. Hicks's for them, I saw Ram by and Wilson—I spoke to both of them, and said that I had come for some meat for Mr. Pluckrose—I cannot remember which of them gave it me, but they were both in the shop at the time, and nobody else—I did not see it weighed—some time after that I went again, and got a Scotch fore quarter of beef—Ramby and Wilson were both in the shop, close together, and they said, "There is your Scotch fore quarter," and chucked it on my shoulder—I put it into Newbiggin's cart by Pluckrose's direction, and about a fortnight or three weeks afterwards I fetched a flank of beef from the shop—they were both there at the time, and one of them said, "That is your flank of beef"—I picked it up, and put it on my shoulder—on May 1st I was standing outside my master's shop, when Newbiggin came—he told me to take something into the cart, which was tied up in a cloth—I put the cloth and contents into Newbiggin's cart—on occasions when my master has sent me for meat from other salesmen, he has had it weighed before I went from it—I have seen him weigh meat, and I have weighed meat for him at Allen's scale, opposite, but I never saw the meat weighed that came from Hicks's—I have seen Ramby, and Wilson, and Pluckrose, all together, and sometimes two of them together.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. And have you seen him with other butchers, in the market? A. Yes—I have been in the butchering line three years—it was in the morning part, before breakfast, that I went to Mr. Hicks's—there was no secrecy at all—I asked for a flank of beef for Mr. Pluckrose, and anybody in the shop could hear me—I saw nobody in the shop but these men—the clerk was not in the shop, but he was at the desk—I spoke out as loud as you do, so that he could hear me—I was not told that if anybody was in the shop but these two men, I was not to go in—I was to go for it openly, whoever might be in the shop—I should have gone in if Mr. Hicks had been there—I carried it over my shoulder—I have seen other customers there when I have gone in, and I have spoken in the same open, bold way—I saw the clerk at the desk every time I went—he is the man that puts the meat down after it is weighed—I did not go to the clerk, and give any account to him, but I know that his duty is to put down the weight of the meat and the name of the person who comes for it, the same as in every shop in the market—that is one of the lessons I have learnt in the butchering line—if I say that I want a
flank of meat for Mr. Smith, down goes the name of Smith and the weight in the book.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. Has the meat sometimes been weighed before? A. Yes, and then it is not called out to the clerk, because it is left under the man's care—I never went and asked for a flank of beef for Mr. Newbiggin—I fetched meat for my master from various shops, wherever he bought it—I did not fetch for other persons—my master has a good deal of meat at different places—the meat was only once tied up in a cloth, and that Newbiggin delivered to me with his own hand, to put into his cart—in March, April, and May, it would always be daylight when I went to Hicks's shop—I did not know who I might find there.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you ever go to the clerk at all, or make any communication to him? A. No—I never used to have to speak to the clerk in any shop in the market—I used to go directly I was told—he always told me to go directly.
COURT. Q. Where were you when he used to tell you to go? A. At his shop—he used to leave me there, and when he came back he used to send me to the different shops to fetch what he had bought.
HENRY HICKS . (junior). I am the prosecutor's son, and assist him. On 1st May I went to Newbiggin's shop, and saw a flank of beef in a cloth, on which was the letter "G"—I have no doubt that that flank of beef belonged to us in the morning, and was consigned to us from Mr. Goocher, of Ipswich—I have no doubt of it—we were told of it, and examined, and missed it—I did not miss it personally, nor did I that on 24th April—I cannot say, from my own going through the accounts, that the total weight in that consignment was deficient—I went to Newbiggin's alone on 24th April—I saw the Scotch fore quarter of beef—I knew it, and knew that it was consigned by Mr. Liddingham, of Huntley—we had received several quarters that day from him, to my knowledge, and they were as near as possible similar to the one I saw.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. What is your age? A. Seventeen next July—I have been initiated into the mysteries of the trade three or four months—I am privileged to sell in the establishment—I have a father and a grandfather—I come to the premises in the morning with my father—my grandfather is there first—I endeavour to attend to the business—I do not wander about there unnecessarily—I have seen several things carried off, but I have seen them sold first—I did not think it necessary to stop them—we sell scores of stones in a day in the market—we have never sold to Pluckrose—I never knew him before the day he was taken into custody—there are five or six men usually about the establishment in the day, sometimes more and sometimes less—the clerk is attached to the desk—great care is taken to have a substitute if he leaves—a clerk is there all business time, and if he is necessarily absent one of us is there—we sometimes sell more than the carcases of a dozen oxen in a day—we also deal in sheep and veal, and any kind of meat—I cannot tell you the exact quantity to a carcase or two that we had from Liddingham on 24th April—they are not all one pattern which came up from him, but they are generally of the same appearance, from one district—they are not all the same size and weight, but they are all of the same appearance; I mean the manner of drawing and cutting them—they have a peculiar manner of dressing in Scotland—the weight of a quarter of an ox would depend upon
whether it was a Scotch quarter or an English one—they would differ in size and form—we put them into the scale in the morning, to ascertain the weight—a dozen oxen consigned to us from Ipswich do not differ much in appearance—I was afterwards deputed to go to Haggerstone—I took notice of the whole that arrived on this particular morning—I did not take any particular observation of any particular carcase—I did not happen before-hand to know that one was going to be stolen, or else it would not have been stolen; I should take care of that—I never was prepared to take my solemn oath that what was at Haggerstone at night had been in our possession in the morning.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Have you thousands of stones come up from Ipswich? A. Sometimes—there is a difference of four pounds in the hundred for the draught of the scale in cutting up.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you know by the cut, the different parts of the country from which they come? A. Yes, generally speaking.
WILLIAM ADAMS . On 24th April and 1st May I was clerk to Messrs. Hicks & Son. It was Wilson's duty, on weighing, to call out the weight to me, and call, "Ready"—I then book it—these two flanks, on 23rd March, were not called out to me by Wilson—I cannot say whether they were sold; but whether they were sold or not, they were not sold to Pluckrose or to Newbiggin—a Scotch fore quarter was not sold to Pluckrose or to Newbiggin, on 24th April, nor called out in connection with their names—a flank of beef was not sold to either of them on 1st May, nor called out in connection with their names—we could not tell exactly whether the two flanks of beef were missing; we thought so—the Scotch fore quarter was missed on 24th April, before my master went to Mr. Newman's—we missed the flank on 1st May.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. On "Ready" being called, do you take a note of the buyer at that moment? A. No—when they call out "Ready" is when ready money is paid, but that is not so at all times—I do not always know the amount—I know the money it is sold for, but nothing further—if it is for ready money, it is made ready money, and I receive the cash—there is not always a note taken of the buyer.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. I understand that there are various ready money transactions at your premises? A. Yes—there is no other clerk but me—I am occasionally absent during the day—no one supplies my place—I merely lock the counting house—I am very seldom away except for a minute—my duty is only with the books and papers, not with the carcases—I only get my information from the invoices—I do not compare them with the particular parts or handle the carcases—the shop does not keep open all day—it closes at 10 or 11 o'clock—it is the scaleman who calls out "Ready"—I take the money, and he takes the weight and calls it out, and the purchaser hands the money to me—it is not always paid for when "Ready" is called, and then it lies at the side of the shop—in that case, I should have nothing to do with the delivery—it is paid for and left for subsequent removal—no one stands at the scale but Wilson—it is Ramby's duty to bring in the meat when it is sold outside, and to put it on the scale—I never sell—there are three or four persons who sell—if the master is away sometimes the head man sells, his name is Wicks—if you came into the shop and the master did not come forward, you would see Mr. Wicks—ready money would be required if you came—Wicks may sometimes go to the Crystal Palace, and then the next man there would sell, I suppose—I have known other men sell.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Had Ramby anything to do with calling out? A. No; it would be his duty to bring in the meat when sold—the day book is here—the man who weighs the meat calls out to me, and I enter it in this book (produced), but you will not understand it—all these entries were made on that morning by myself, and made from the man at the scale—they are not copied from something else—the scale man calls out this name, Alexander Reid, and the meat is noted with the name of Reid, and then I enter that in the margin, and here is the money which I receive—after making that entry, the customer comes to me and pays me the money—I balance my accounts at night—the consignments of meat are entered in this day book, in the margin—here are all the different consignors—the largest quantity is from Goocher—they consign to other people as well as us—we are not very liable to mistakes in the weight—we do not find that the meat received tallies with what we have sold, as meat sent from the country will lose—mistakes are sometimes made in entering the wrong person's name; and sometimes meat consigned to other persons is pitched to our place, and vice versed—I am unable to say whether any flanks were missed on 22nd March—we missed the Scotch quarter at 12 o'clock at noon, after business was over—we found an entry of a Scotch quarter which we could not account for; and the same thing on 1st May with regard to a flank—there was a deficiency of 20 or 24 lbs.—it sometimes happens that buyers for ready money are not entered at once—it sometimes happens that meat arriving in the morning is not entered for two or three hours, through the pressure of business.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Are you the sole consignee of Goocher? A. Yes—on 1st May we missed 20 or 30 lbs. of meat.
COURT. Q. You say that sometimes meat is bought for ready money and you do not always put down the name of the purchaser, but he comes and pays for it? A. Yes—we cannot prove it, but it is a supposition that the two flanks of beef, on 24th March, were paid for as a ready money purchase—my book has an entry of two flanks as "Ready," and many such entries—we were short of four quarters on 1st May.
JOSEPH BROWN . (City Policeman, 584). On 1st May, I went to Mr. Newbiggin's shop, in plain clothes, and saw him weigh some meat—Pluckrose's brother in law was there—I saw him take a cloth away, and followed him to Pluckrose's house, No. 7, King Henry Street, Ball's Pond Road, Islington, with the cloth—I then went to a public house opposite Pluckrose's house, and saw Pluckrose standing in front of the bar—I eat down, smoked a pipe, and remained there some considerable time, sitting next but one to Pluckrose—the person came in who had taken away the cloth from Newbiggin's—he told Pluckrose that he had been to Newbiggin's and seen the weight of this flank of beef—Pluckrose said, "All right, what did it weigh?"—he said, "2 stone 4 1/2 lbs."—Pluckrose said, "All right, go over and put it down at once; put it down at four and four, and don't make any mistake"—on the Monday following, 3rd May, I went to Newbiggin's shop—I was in the parlour behind the shop—there is a glass partition—Pluckrose came in about 11 o'clock, and Newbiggin told him that he had charged him too much for that flank of beef from Hicks's—Pluckrose said, "You have got nothing to grumble about for I have paid the b—9s. for it"—he then asked if he had got any of it left—Newbiggin pointed to a piece of meat at the door, and Pluckrose went and looked at it and made some observation which I could not hear—I saw Newbiggin pay Pluckrose some money, and Pluckrose went away.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. I suppose you are a butcher? A. I am—I heard "four and four" mentioned—the weight was 2 stone 4 1/2 lbs.—he might have said 20 1/2 lbs., but I did not hear it—I heard him say 2 stone 4 1/2 lbs.—this was in front of the bar—about half a dozen people were present—he did not speak openly—he leaned across me and spoke to his brother—I have never said that he said 20 1/2 lbs., that I am aware of—(The witness's deposition stated 20 1/2 lbs.)—my recollection was not better before the Magistrate than it is now—I have not improved my memory since then—"four and four" is 4s. 4d. a stone—that is a fair price, 6 1/2 d. a pound—the flank is not the best part, it is not like the ribs or the sirloin—on the latter occasion I concealed myself in the inner room with the glass door between—I was there for the purpose of concealment—he said that he had paid 9s. for it.
GEORGE RUSSELL . I am a detective officer. On Friday, 1st May, I saw the boy Hawkes place a piece of meat in Mr. Newbiggin's cart—I looked at it after he had gone, it was a flank of beef and I put a mark on it—on 6th May, I took Ramby into custody at Mr. Hicks's—I took him to the station and he said that he wished to speak to his master—I asked him what he wanted to say; he said that he only wished to ask him to be as lenient as possible—I searched him and found 10l. 10s. in gold, and 11s. in silver—I saw Pluckrose at the station, and saw 58l. 19s. 4 1/2 d. found on him, and this bill (produced) was found at his house, but I was not present—it was given to me at Newgate by Spital, in Pluckrose's presence—Spital has gone abroad—he said that it was Newbiggin's bill, and that this book contained Newbiggin's account; it does contain an account.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you present when Ramby had a conversation with Mr. Hicks, his master? A. Yes, but it was in an under tone and I did not hear it—they were talking for about ten minutes, I moved out of hearing—I did not wish to hear what was said—I am quite sure Ramby said that he wished to ask his master to be as lenient as possible, and his master was close by and heard it—I did not hear him talk about his wife and family, or of the annoyance and disgrace of being given into custody—I heard all that he said at the station house; that was subsequent to the conversation at his master's house.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. Do you know whether Pluckrose is a scholar? A. I never saw him write.
MR. RIBTON. submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury, that the case must be confined to the three charges in the indictment, as to which there was no evidence, but only conjecture, that any meat was lost. MR. CARTER. submitted that Pluckrose was never shown to be present, or acting in the matter before hand; that he was not concerned in the robbery and never received possession of the meat. The COURT. left, the case to the Jury. The prisoners received good characters.
GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Jury and prosecutor. RAMBY and WILSON.— Confined Nine Months each.
PLUCKROSE— Confined Twelve Months.
FOURTH COURT.—Friday, June 19th, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir HENRY MUGGERIDGE., Knt., Ald.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Eighth Jury.
MR. PHILIPPS. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH MARSH . I live at No. 93, Granby Street, Waterloo Road. I am an unfortunate woman, and live in an apartment in that house—the prisoner has occupied another apartment there—she was not doing so when this happened—she was staying with a party that was living in the house—she had not slept there that night—she had slept there the last week, up to that time—before that she had been seeing her friends in the country for two months—she had been back a week—she had been sleeping in the front parlour of that house—I occupy the back parlour—on Monday, 1st June, I returned home about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I saw the prisoner sitting on the step of the door—I asked her to let me pass in, but she did not—I asked her again to let me pass in, and told her she did not pay the rent of the whole house—on my saying that, the prisoner got up and gave me a violent blow, and knocked me down—I had a dreadful black eye—she gave me a great many blows—she knocked the senses out of me—the blow fell on the back of my head, and took my senses away—I called to the landlord to assist me, and carry me in—I do not recollect anything after that—I do not know how I got in; I was taken in—the next time I saw the prisoner was on the following morning, when I saw her about 1 o'clock, just in the parlour door—I was up stairs; I went down stairs, and said, "Jane, what did. you give me such a black eye for?"—she said, "You b—, I will give you.
another"—I stood at the door, and she came at me with a pair of scissors—she struck me over the forehead; there is a mark there—she pushed the scissors at me—she took hold of my hair, and I took hold of her's—I afterwards went up stairs, and fastened myself in a room; she came up stairs and broke the door open—in my room there was a quart pot on the table; I saw the prisoner take it up—my fellow-lodger was in the room, and she said, "Jane, I will not have any disturbance made in my room"—the prisoner took up the pot, and held it up first at her; she then came up to me, and said, "You b—, I will do for you"—I moved to the other side of the fire place—she came and struck me a blow over the head; she cut my head open—my eye was still bleeding—I put my hands up to my head as the blood was flowing from me, and said, "Oh, Jane! how can you be so cruel?"—I got hold of the ledge of the window, and cried out, "Murder!"—the cut with the pot was right on the top of my head—the first blow was struck down stairs, at the street door—the prisoner was standing just in the front parlour door—that was in her room—it was the room where she had been sleeping—she had not slept there that night—she did not pay any rent.
Cross-examined by MR. LAXTON. Q. Up to the previous night, had she been living there? A. Yes—this took place just by the parlour door, close by the passage—she was standing there when I came in—I did not say anything else besides about her not paying all the rent—she got up when I said that—I cannot say whether I pushed her away from me after I said that—I
did not when she knocked me down—it is a middling sized passage—I did not push her at all—the first thing she did was, she got up and knocked me down—there were a few people round when I was knocked down; there was not a mob—there was not a scuffle between me and the prisoner—she would not let me pass in—there was no scuffle between us—there had been no disagreement between us before—we were not particular friends—I cannot say whether she sent for two oysters to put on my eye; I had some in the house—they were applied to my eye—I do not know that she expressed her sorrow at what had taken place—I do not know that she asked me to lie down—I do not know when I recovered my consciousness—I have heard the prisoner say that she was about to remove from that house where she had been lodging with me, to another house—the second assault took place on the next day, about 1 o'clock in the day—I did not go down and open the door when I heard her knock—I was up stairs at the time, I went down after she had come in; I asked her why she gave me that black eye—she said that if I was not satisfied with that, she would give me another one—I did not take hold of her hair before she took the scissors—I believe she took the scissors from off the drawers, but I cannot say—the drawers were standing close by the door, in the parlour—she was just inside the parlour door—I did not see her go to the drawers and take the scissors; I cannot say whether she did or not; she had them in her hands when I saw them—we had no scuffle before the scissors were used—I am not in the habit of using bad language—the scissors were not used in a struggle between us; it was all done in a moment—I had not put my fingers on her before she took up the scissors—I cannot say whether she had the scissors in her hand before I was struck—the parlour is not a very large room—she did not rush suddenly at me, she was standing just inside the door—she was close to me all this time—there is a pair of scissors generally lying on the drawers—I do not know whether they require scissors in their work—I believe I was struck with the scissors at the same time that we had one another by the hair—it was all done in a moment—I do not know that I saw the scissors before I felt them—I am quite sure it was done by something sharp, and the blood came down—I am quite sure I did not seize her by the hair first—it was not long after that she struck me with the pewter pot—after the scuffle she went down stairs, I think; I did not see her go—I did not rush at her with a piece of an iron bolt; I had nothing at all in my hand, I can swear that—there was only one woman in the room when she struck me with the pewter pot, Alice Bayley—she did not attack her—the door was locked—it was not very strong, she broke it open—she did not say anything—I did not say anything to her—she held the pewter pot up at Alice Bayley first—I did not do anything—I got to the other side of the fire place, out of her way—she was not in a very excited state—she was not intoxicated on either of the occasions—she might have had a glass before that time; she was not tipsy—I do not know that she had been drinking; I did not see her drink anything—I did nothing on this second occasion when she struck me with the pewter pot—Jonathan Adams did not come up and say to me that I should murder the woman—I was not separated from her by any one—when she struck at me with the scissors some one got me away, and I went up stairs, or she might have murdered me then—there are two other women living in the house besides Mrs. Barton, the landlady—they did not take any part in it—they might have said, "Don't hurt her;" I do not know—the prisoner was not attacked by the other women—she did not call them names—I had had no disagreement with her before—I cannot say
whether she had any opportunity of taking up the scissors after she had me by the hair, or whether she had them in her hand first.
ALICE BAYLEY . I was in the house when this transaction took place, on Tuesday, 2nd June—I recollect being in the room with the prosecutrix that morning—I cannot exactly remember the time—there was nobody in that room besides the prosecutrix and myself—I was in the room, and the prosecutrix came up stairs, out of the way of the prisoner—she had not been there long when the door was burst open by the prisoner—she did not speak—she took up a quart pot from the table, and held it up to me—I said to her when she came in, "Don't come here to make a piece of work, I will not have it"—she gave a terrible oath, and said, "I will do for you"—I went down stairs—I heard "Murder!" cried out before I got to the landing—I saw the prosecutrix after that—I did not see the blow struck at the prosecutrix—she did not appear at all excited, but very determined—she wad quite sober, I believe—it was about 1 o'clock in the day, I believe—I do not know that she had been drinking—we had had no previous disagreement.
MARY BAKER . I live at No. 93, Granby Street, Waterloo Road. I know the prisoner—on Monday, 1st June, I was at the door of the house—the prisoner was there, and a man was sitting with her—the prosecutrix came up, and asked to pass—the prisoner would not let her—on that the prosecutrix said, "You do not pay the rent of the whole house"—the prisoner got up, and knocked her down into the road—all she said was that one word—the landlord came up, and took her into the back parlour—on Tuesday I was standing at the back parlour, the prisoner came up stairs, and pulled off her boots, and went up stairs, and broke open the door, and took up a quart pot, but I did not see the blow struck—I saw Betsy; she held her head out of the window, and called out, "Murder!"—the policeman came up, and took the scissors away from the prisoner—I came down stairs—the prisoner attempted to catch hold of her legs to throw her out of the window—she had a piece of rag, or something in her hand, which she tore off the sheet, and she tried to put it up in front of Betsy's head, so that the persons opposite should not see the blood flowing—she did not pull her back from the window, she tried to throw her out—I had not been in the back parlour all day; that is where the prosecutrix lives—there might have been something going on in the parlour, but I did not see anything—she came in with her forehead bleeding.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see anything of the row with the scissors? A. No, only with the pewter pot; I was not present at that time, only when the policeman took the scissors from her—the prisoner was putting a rag on Betsy's head to stop the blood, so that the people opposite should not see it—she said, "I am sorry you are come, policeman," or something of that sort—she was quite sober—she was very excited and angry—it is a manner that she has got; she is very hasty at times—I know that after the blow had been struck over her eye, in the first instance, Jane sent for some oysters to put on Betsy's eye—I do not know whether she put them on, I was not in the room—I do not know that she expressed any sorrow at the black eye that Betsy had got—she has rather a hasty temper—I did not ask her what was said when the prosecutrix came into the passage—she was sitting on the step of the door; she and the man together, when the prosecutrix came up—they were blocking up the whole of the steps, so as to prevent anybody coming in—I was present at the door—all that the prosecutrix said was, "You don't pay all the rent of the house"—I
was sitting down in the passage by the side of Jane and the man—Betsy did not push the prisoner down when she got up—there was a scuffle between them directly Jane got up—the prisoner hit Betsy several times when she was down—the prosecutrix did not get her down—she did not seize her by the hair of the head; she knocked the prosecutrix down senseless, and then gave her a great many blows—I did not see the prosecutrix seize her by the hair of her head—I did not see any row between them after that on any other day—I did not see the prisoner's face torn all over—I saw that her hair was all about, but it was not torn out of her head—I did not look particularly.
JONATHAN ADAMS . I am the landlord of the house in Granby Street. I know the prosecutrix—on Monday, 1st June, I was in the kitchen, and I heard a noise at the door, and I heard Elizabeth Marsh say, "You don't pay all the rent of the house"—I went up stairs, and saw her lying on her back in the road—I got a female to help me, and took her up stairs—she never spoke all the time till she was on the bed—the prisoner said she was going over to the public house—the next day, about 1 o'clock, I was called up stairs—when I got there, Jane White was in the parlour, and Elizabeth Marsh was in the passage, bleeding from a wound on her forehead—I took her into the parlour, and shut the door, and told her I would go and get a policeman—I did not see the wound inflicted—the prisoner was in the parlour at the time: I had not seen her before, but as I was going for the policeman she rushed out of the door, with a pair of scissors in her hand—she made a stab at me—the scissors were about an inch and a half out of her hand—I held her by her two wrists—I got her outside the front door, and shut it, but she went to the window, and broke it open—I went and got two policemen from the station—when the prosecutrix called out "Murder!" the policeman went up stain—I saw the blood flowing from Betsy's face.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not the prisoner send you for two oysters to put on the eye? A. Yes—she did not express her sorrow to me, nor to anybody in my presence—the oysters were for the purpose of taking the black from the eye—I am sure she told me to go, she gave me the money—I cannot say whether they were put to the woman's eye—I gave them to Jane White and another person, and then I went away—I did not separate the prosecutrix and the prisoner—I did not say, at any time, to the prosecutrix, "Why, you will murder the woman"—I did not see any row between them—I did not hear any more than I have stated—I did not see the prosecutrix attack the prisoner with a piece of iron on 2nd June—the prisoner did not appear to have been drinking—I thought she appeared very cool indeed, considering what she was about.
FREDERICK ALLSTROM . (Policeman, L 197). I was on duty in the neighbourhood of Granby Street, on 2nd June—I heard a cry of "Murder!"—I went to the house where the prosecutrix lives—I saw her out of the window with her head bleeding—I rushed up stairs, and saw the prisoner with the pot in her hand—I thought she was going to hit me—I was about to draw my truncheon, but she put it down—she said, "I am sorry you.
are come, I meant to do for the b——."
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner was in a very excited state, was she not? A. No, she appeared to me to be very cool about it.
WILLIAM HENRY KEMPTON . I am a surgeon residing in the Waterloo Road. On Tuesday, 2nd June, the prosecutrix was brought to my surgery—the injury which I first observed was a large cut on the scalp—it must
have been inflicted, I think, with some blunt edged weapon—it was a semicircular wound—some considerable force must have been used—it was of a very violent nature—I observed another small wound, about two and a half inches in length, which was done with a sharp weapon—it seemed to have been a blow that had missed its aim—she also had a black eye, which had evidently been inflicted some time before—it was not bleeding, it was closed—these scissors would produce such a wound—the wound on the head might have caused death in two or three ways, from fracture of the skull or concussion of the brain, or sometimes from fright—I have known a blow much less than that kill a person—I have known a person tumble on the front of the head, and have a disorder of the brain—it might have produced fatal results—she was under my care—the wound is healed up now, and I have not seen much of her.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner at all after these assaults I A. Yes, the next morning—she had two or three scratches on her forehead with a finger nail—her hair was done up nicely at that time—I could not tell whether it had been torn all over—she had sustained no particular injury—she said she felt very sore all over—I have no doubt the woman will entirely recover from the blow.
FREDERICK ALLSTROM . (re-examined). The prisoner was taken to the station house in a cab—I got her in a cab, but she broke all the windows—she said she was sorry I came, for she meant to do for her—she repeated that a great many times at the station—I did not observe any symptom of her being insane—she was talking about Bedlam—we were not near Bedlam at the time—she said she was going to be sent there before—Serjeant Remain saw her while she was in custody—she has been in Newgate—the surgeon has seen her—he has not given any report of her.
JONATHAN ADAMS . (re-examined). She had been living in that house about a week—she had been down to Wales—she had been up about a week—she was stopping there for some little time before she went to Wales—she had been at the house more than four or five weeks—I have known her for nearly two years—I have never observed anything particular about her.
GUILTY. on the Second Count.
William Romain, Police sergeant, L 14, stated that the prisoner was tried and convicted last Oct. for stabbing and wounding another person, only a house or two from the one in which this occurred, in the same street.
Transported for Life.
736. THOMAS BROOKS (17), HENRY GEORGE HARDY (17), WILLIAM SCHOFIELD (19), and THOMAS MILES (21) , Unlawfully obtaining from the London and Westminster Joint Stock Bank a cheque book, value 6d.; with intent to defraud.
MESSRS. SLEIGH. and SCOBLE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN BRIDGEWATER . I am a clerk in the London and Westminster Bank, Temple Bar Branch. On 20th May I received an order for a cheque book—this (produced) is it—Mr. Barton, of Upper Wellington Street, Strand, keeps an account at our bank—I delivered this cheque book, containing 100 cheques (produced), to the bearer—the numbers are A 409—these nine cheques are all from that book, and these two (produced) also—here is one on Puget, Bainbridge, and Co., which does not come from that book—forty-six cheques were taken out of the book; I cannot say to whom I gave it.
Strand. The prisoner Brooks was in my employment for five months—he came into my employment in the latter part of November last year, and left in April this year—he was a clerk, and as clerk he had access to the different desks and knew my writing—this card (produced) is not in my writing—I have no doubt it is Brooks's—(Order read: "Please give bearer a new cheque book. Thomas Barton")—none of these cheques are in my writing, or written by my authority—to the best of my knowledge they are written by the prisoner Brooks—I have not a shadow of doubt about it—while he was with me I was not aware that he was in the habit of using my name, nor have I since discovered that he did—I found a sheet of blotting paper, with a great number of imitations of my signature, in Brooks's own drawer—I missed some of my business cards—we usually send the advertisements to the office by one of the clerks, and sometimes send a cheque with them.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. (for Hardy). Q. Have you not ascertained that he has used your name since he has left your employment? A. Yes—small slips of paper are sent to other papers for them to copy—they are attached to business cards with my own stamp on—neither the slips, nor the cheques, nor the letters are in my writing, nor written by my authority—I believe them to be in Brooks's writing.
Brooks to JOHN BRIDGEWATER. Q. I believe you know me? A. I cannot say that I do—I made some inquiries of you when one of these advertisements was sent.
GEORGE STEDMAN . I took Brooks into custody—I told him he was charged with forgery—he said, "It was not me that did it"—I searched him, and found this cheque book (produced), and 1l. 3s. in money—after he was remanded, he said that the others were into it as well as him, and they ought to be in the same place—I took Schofield into custody on Wednesday—I told him he was charged with uttering a forged cheque at the Daily News office—he said that he went to the Daily News office with an advertisement and a cheque, and he got 3l. 10s., which was shared, and that he did not know it was a forgery—I said, "You have been with others"—he said,."Yes, I have been with one to the Times office, where I got 4l. 12s.," and, I believe he said, 6d.—he did not say that he did not know that was a forgery—he said, "Me and Brooks shared that between us; me, Hardy, and Brooks shared the 3l. 10s. "—nothing further paused between us—I took Miles on Tuesday, six days afterwards—I told him that he was charged with uttering forged cheques—he said, "I went with one to the Yorkshire Grey; I got 5l. there; I then went to a publican of the name of Morgan; I did not get nothing there, but nearly got locked up"—he said that he had been to a cigar shop in the Strand, but he got nothing there—he said, "I have had more than Schofield"—I understood that he meant more money.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. (for Schofield). Q. Were you in uniform? A. I was when I apprehended Brooks, not when I apprehended Schofield—it was on the 30th when I apprehended Brooks—I did not take any note of the conversation—the words Schofield used in the omnibus with regard to the cheque for 3l. 10s., were, "We shared that amongst us"—I believe no one else heard it—he told me so again at the station—he mentioned the names of Hardy and Brooks—I am certain he did not say that they had lent him half the money—he was near the station at Camden Town when he mentioned the cheque for 4l. 12s.—we rode all the way—that was said in the omnibus too—he never said anything about borrowing to me—as soon as I told him, he said that he had taken one to the Daily News, and that he had shared that with the others.
Miles. I said that I took a letter and cheque for Brooks, but I did not
know it was forged. Witness. He said, "I did not know it was forged, and and I got 5l.;" and after that he told me he went to a cigar shop in Clement's Lane, but he got nothing there—he said it was just by Kelly's—when I found he had been to the Yorkshire Grey, I asked him if he had been to any others, and then he told me of these—he said that when they were going to take him up at Morgan's, he told them that he knew nothing about it, and that he was quite ready to do anything they thought fit—Schofield said he knew Brooks, under the name of Keeling—Miles said that he had taken these letters for Brooks.
WILLIAM FRANKLIN . (Policeman, F 72). I apprehended Hardy on Whitsun Monday, June 1st, in the pit of the Victoria Theatre—I told him that he was charged with passing forged cheques, knowing them to be forged—he said, "No; only one that I knew was false, and that was at a public house in Macclesfield Street, Soho; I own I knew that was forged, but I did not get anything there"—he then said, "I will tell you how I became acquainted with Brooks; I was at home on a Wednesday, when Brooks called at my house; he said that he had heard that I was out of work; he asked me if I would earn a shilling or two; he said that he wanted me to go into the City to get some wine; while I was in conversation with him, he asked me if I could get a horse and cart, as he was a long way from home; I said I thought I could"—this was at his own house, at No. 16, Howland Street, Tottenham Court Road—"I went to Mrs. Clark's, opposite, and, while they were getting the horse and cart ready, we went to a public-house opposite; I saw Brooks write on a card; he put it in an envelope, and we both rode in the horse and cart; I drove the horse; I believe he put the envelope into his pocket; I drove to Wellington Street, in the Strand, and Brooks got out, and went away somewhere, I do not know where—after a short time he came back, and I then drove to the bank near Temple Bar; he gave me the envelope and card, and I went into the bank, and gave it to some one there, and they gave me a cheque book; I gave the cheque book to Brooks; I then went to the London Wine Company's, in Lime Street, City"—I knew part of this before, and I traced him that way—"Brooks gave me a letter; I went into the Wine Company's with it, and they asked me several questions, and, after waiting about half an hour, Brooks called me; when we got near the corner, Brooks caught hold of me and pulled me away, and said, 'Come away; you will get transported; I have given you the wrong letter;' he said, 'Come along,' and he gave me another letter, and said, 'Take this to the Shipping Gazette office,' which I did; I got nothing there; after I left the horse and cart I was afraid to go home, and I have been with Brooks ever since"—that was on Wednesday, 20th May—Brooks was not taken till 30th May.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did you write down all this long story? A. No—I knew there was a Mrs. Clark before I got hold of Hardy—I believe his father is a very respectable man, living in Howland Street—Mrs. Clark lives in a little mews very near there—they kept the horse and cart at the London Wine Company's.
CHARLES SHOREHAM . I keep the Golden Lion public house, Dean Street, Soho. On Monday, 25th May, the prisoner Hardy brought me this note and cheque (produced)—I know Mr. Cook—he lives at No. 6, Macclesfield Street—I saw that the number of the letter was wrong—I asked Hardy how it was that the letter was directed No. 3, when Mr. Cook lived at No. 6—he said, "I don't know anything about the number, I know Mr. Cook, and he sent me"—I did not cash the cheque—I said, "Well, I shall not give
you any money until I find out whether Mr. Cook sent you"—I called a boy and sent him down to Macclesfield Street with Hardy, and he said to the boy as he was going, "So you are going to see whether my cheque is right"—the boy came back without him—Hardy did not come back again—I had never seen him before—I have not the slightest doubt but that he is the man.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How long was he in your place? A. Four or five minutes—I was serving my customers—I had never seen him before—I don't know where the boy is—I suppose he is at home, he is not here, he was not before the Magistrate—that is one of the cheques that have been produced here, it comes from the book, and is said to be in Brooks's writing.
WILLIAM COOK . I live at No. 6, Macclesfield Street, Soho. This letter is not in my writing, I know nothing about it—that cheque has never been my property—I do not know Messrs. Chubb and Son, whose names are attached to it—I had a slight acquaintance with the prisoner Brooks some time ago—I saw him first about three years ago, and through the knowledge he had of me, he solicited me to subscribe for a book—I said that I would take it in, and sent my name in the order book to say I would take it in.
JOHN CHUBB . I am a member of the firm of Chubb and Son, of St. Paul's Churchyard. That cheque is not in my writing or in that of any member of the firm—I do not keep any account at the London and Westminster Bank, Temple Bar—I know nothing of this cheque for 6l. 5s., signed John Chubb—this one for 1l. 12s. 9d., on Puget and Bainbridge, signed John Chubb, is not mine—I have no account either at Puget and Bainbridge's or at the London and Westminster Bank—Schofield is supposed to have circulated the cheque on Puget and Bainbridge.
CHARLES SHOREHAM . (re-examined). Hardy had a hat on when I first saw him, and when he was at the police court he had a cap, and I thought he looked rather shorter—I told the policeman to take his cap off, and then I knew him.
JOSHUA CHALLIS . I am managing clerk to the London Wine Company, No. 14, Lime Street. This letter and cheque was brought to my office on 20th May last—(Read: "2nd April, Wellington Street. Sir, Please give the bearer three dozen of sherry and port, and take out of the cheque. J. Barton")—the prisoner Hardy brought the cheque to me—Mr. Barton used to deal with me—when Hardy brought the cheque, I said that I thought it was very strange, as I had been conversing with him about an hour previous—I asked him who had sent him—he said, Mr. Barton—I asked him what he had to put the wine in, and he said a horse and cart, which belonged to Mrs. Clark, I think—I asked him if he had any baskets—he said, "No"—I did not order the wine to be delivered to him—I ordered him to take the horse and cart up the yard—I saw it afterwards in the yard—there was no one with it—Hardy did not come back for it—I sent the wine to Mr. Barton's—Mr. Barton said that he knew nothing at all about it.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. He told you, did he not, that the horse and cart belonged to Mrs. Clark? A. He did—I do not know any other Mr. Barton.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. The person whom you believe to be Brooks, came with Hardy? A. Yes—I know Hardy very well indeed, from
living in the neighbourhood—it was in consequence of his saying that the other man wanted the cart that I let him have it—Hardy had been working for me—I said that my carman should go with it—Hardy said, "No, I don't want a carman, I will let one of mine go with it"—I asked who would pay for it—Brooks said, "I will pay Hardy, and he will pay you."
CALEB WRIGHT . I am manager to Mr. Rose, of the cigar divan in the Strand. On Thursday, 21st May, this cheque for 5l. (produced) was brought to me by Mr. Hale—he was accompanied by the prisoner Miles—I asked him who he brought the cheque from—he said, from a gentleman in Wellington Street, Strand—I asked him if it was Mr. Barton, and he said, "Yes"—I said, if it was all right the goods should be sent the next morning—I sent the cheque to the bank early next morning (the letter was dated 20th May, 1857, and contained an order for 2lbs. of best Cubas; signed T. Barton; the cheque was for 5l., payable to the bearer, signed T. Barton).
WILLIAM JOSEPH LEWIS . I am one of the advertising clerks in the Daily News office. On Saturday, 30th May last, the prisoner Schofield brought me this paper and cheque (produced)—I gave him 3l. 10s. in change—I did not know he came for Barton's (this was an order on the London and Westminster Bank to pay 5l. to the bearer, signed Messrs. Watherston and Brogden).
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Was the advertisement office open? A. Yes; he brought the advertisement first, and then the cheque—I had never seen the person before, that I know of—I have been clerk in that establishment between two and three years—my duty is to receive advertisements.
WILLIAM SOPER . I am messenger to Messrs. Watherston and Brogden. I know their writing—that is not in the writing of either of my masters—they have no account at the London and Westminster Bank—they are in the habit of advertising in the Daily News, but they do not send the messenger there.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Are you in the habit of seeing your masters write? A. Yes, both of them, and have been so this ten years—Mr. Brogden usually manages the business—this is a very bad imitation of his writing.
MARY ANN PEARCE . My husband keeps the Yorkshire Grey public house. On 2nd May last, a person came and presented this cheque to me—I believe he asked me for change and said, would I give Mr. Wontner change, it being after banking hours.
— WATSON. I live at No. 35, Howland Street, Fitzroy Square. I never sent this cheque by anybody to be cashed.
ROBERT HOWARD . I am the advertisement clerk in the Times office. On 15th May last, a letter was presented at my office—the person also produced a cheque—the charge for the advertisement would amount to 3l.—I asked him from whom he brought the cheque; he said from Mr. Barton—I asked him who Chubb and Son were; he said they were the locksmiths in the yard—I gave him 4l. 12s. 9d. in change.
JOHN WETHERALL . I keep the Lamb public house, No. 32, Vere Street, Clare Market. On Saturday, 23rd May, the prisoner Hardy brought this note and cheque (produced)—(the cheque was dated 23rd May, and was for payment of 6l. 5s. to William Johnson; signed Chubb and Son)—Messrs. Chubb and Son are particular friends of mine—I gave him the 6l. 5s.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What time was it when it was brought to you? A. About half past 1 o'clock—he was not there more than three
or four minutes—I said I thought it might be Brooks that brought it—I had a doubt—when I saw the other prisoner Hardy, I said it was him—I had never seen him before, to my recollection—I did not see him again until I saw him at the station house—I recollected Hardy as the person, directly I saw him—I have no doubt but that he is the person who brought the cheque.
WILLIAM JOHNSON . I live at No. 26, Duke Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields. The signature of that letter (produced) is not in my writing—I never authorised any one to write it—I had nothing to do with that cheque signed by Chubb and Son—I know Brooks—I know Mr. Wetherall—I should say that it was very probable that Brooks knew that I knew Mr. Wetherall, as he lived in my house for two years.
Brooks's Defence. On 16th June, 1857, I was in the employment of Mr. Barton, and had been so for about five months, at 8s. a week. I was trusted with a great deal of money; Mr. Barton received eighteen months' character with me, and I have had a good character till the week in which I was taken into custody; I wish to call attention to the document relating to the Times office, you will see three different handwritings on them; and as to the stamp, it is certainly similar to Mr. Barton's, but they are so common now that the men sell them about the streets; I plead guilty to forging one of the cheques, together with Hardy and Miles; it is my first offence; I hope the Court will overlook it.
Miles's Defence. On 20th May last, about half past 9 o'clock in the morning, I saw Brooks and Hardy; Brooks asked me if I was Hardy's friend; I said, "Yes;" after that, he asked me if I would meet him again the next night; I said that I would, and I did, on the other side of the water—I went to a publican with them, who asked me my name and address; I had nothing more to do with them after that; I told the policeman that I did not know they were forged; he asked me how many I had taken; I told him four, and where they were; he asked me how long I had known Brooks; I told him the first time I had seen Brooks was the Wednesday night.
(Miles and Schofield received good characters, and MR. SLEIGH. stated that he withdrew the case against Schofield.)
SCHOFIELD— NOT GUILTY .
MILES— GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
HARDY— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Twelve Months.
BROOKS— GUILTY.— Judgment respited.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS KILLICK HORLOCK . I keep a public house, at West Ham, Essex. On 9th May Carrington came for half a pint of 6d. ale, and tendered a counterfeit half crown—I asked her where she got it from; she said that
her husband gave it to her—I asked her if she knew where be got it; she said, "From the Victoria Docks, for his wages," and that he would take it back next morning—I marked it, and gave it to her—it was afterwards shown to me at the station, and was the same—this is it (produced)—I followed her from my house, and saw her join Moore, who had a baby, about fifty yards from the house—I followed them some distance, and found them both standing under a lamp post; a policeman took them—Carrington said that she had not been over the bridge; my house is on the other side of the bridge—the jug had a relic of the ale in it then.
MOSES NICHOL . (Policeman, K 97). On 19th May, about 20 minutes past 10 o'clock, I was on duty in Roscoe Town—I was called to Mr. Horlock's, and went down the road with him—we went over the bridge, and saw the prisoners by a lamp post—I asked Carrington if she had got anything good in the jug; she made no reply—Mr. Horlock asked Moore if she knew him—she said, "No, I never saw you in my life before"—he said, "You were close by my house a little bit since"—she said, "I was never over the bridge"—Carrington said to Moore, "You gave me 1d. to pay for coming over"—I took them to the station.
ELIZA BAYLEY . I am female searcher at the station house. I searched Moore on 19th May, and found on her two half crowns and four florins, all bad—I searched Carrington, and found 1d. in her basket—I marked all the money, and kept it—here are my marks—I showed Mr. Horlock the money, and saw him pick out the half crown which he had marked.
Moore's Defence. I came out to get something for my husband's dinner, and picked up a purse of money; I did not know that it was bad; I met Carrington, and paid her a half crown which I owed her; she is not guilty, any more than I am.
Carrington's Defence. I met Moore, who told me that she had been to get out something from a pawnbroker's; she gave me a half crown which she had borrowed of me; I asked her to have something to drink, and the barman called the police; I know nothing about the bad money, and was never in charge before; my husband is in Court.
CARRINGTON received a good character.
GUILTY.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined Four Months.
MOORE— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN WALL . I am a furrier and shopkeeper, of Barking. On 7th May, between 3 and 4 o'clock, Allen came there for 1d. worth of bread and 1d. worth of cheese, and half an ounce of tobacco; they came to 3 1/2 d., and he put down a half crown—I pitched it to my wife; she pitched it back, saying, "It is a bad one"—the prisoner said, "I took it of a lady, down at the May-pole, for a mat;" he was then a mile and a half from Barking, and was not coming in that direction, but directly opposite—I gave it to him, and he went away, leaving the bread and cheese on the counter.
Allen. Q. What do you swear to me by? A. By your complexion and looks—I stood and looked at you; I am sure you are the man—I saw no mats in your possession.
Allen. I was not in company with the woman. Witness. I saw you both together, and I had seen you in town several times before.
CHARLOTTE MESSER . I am the wife of James Messer, of Woodford Bridge. On 7th May, after 8 o'clock, Allen came for half an ounce of tobacco, and gave me a bad shilling; I told him so, and he said that I was no judge of money—I gave it back to him, and he pulled out some more money, and said that if he gave me a half crown I should say that it was bad, so he would not give it to me—he went away, and about twenty minutes afterwards Brooks came for a half quartern loaf, and tendered me a half crown; I took it up, and said that it was not good; it was very light—she said that she thought it was a good one as it linked on the counter, and that she would take it back to the shop where she took it—she went towards Mr. Dixon's.
Brooks. Q. How was it that you sent me out for change to the turnpike, if you knew it was bad? A. I thought that the turnpike man was a good judge of money—I did not send you for change; I said that he could tell you whether it was bad or good, but I was sure of it before that.
THOMAS GROTE . I keep the Bald Hind, Chigwell. On Friday evening, about 7 o'clock, Brooks came, and asked for some ale and a biscuit—she gave me a half crown, and I gave her 2s. and a 4d. piece, and she gave me the 4d. piece back, and changed it for a biscuit—directly she had turned her back I tried the half crown, and bent it nearly double, then fetched her back, gave it to her, and told her to mind that she did not get locked up—she drank the ale and ate part of the biscuit—I took the change from her, and sent information to the police—I was busy, or I should have followed her.
Brooks. I was never in your shop. Witness. I am sure of you.
JOHN DIXON . I am a baker, at Woodford Bridge. On this evening, about 7 o'clock, Brooks came for a 2d. loaf; I had not got one, and sold her 2d. worth of bread—she gave me a half crown, I gave her change, and then tried it, and it was bad—I told her so; she said that she had a friend close by, and would get a good one—I called a constable, and gave her in charge, with the half crown.
COURT. Q. How near is Mr. Dixon's to Mr. Messer's? A. Only thirty yards—the prisoners were standing one on one side of the green, and one on the other, but I was not soon enough to see Brooks leave the men; they were in sight—I called a brother constable.
Allen. Q. Did you see me in company with this female? A. No.
Brooks's Defence. I took the half crown of a gentleman at Barking, and went to get a 2d. loaf; I am an unfortunate girl; I never saw Allen in my life.
ALLEN— GUILTY.*.— Confined One Year.
BROOKS— GUILTY.*.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN REELBECH . (through an interpreter.) I cannot speak English; I am in the employ of Jean Marie Leonidas Caillard, a tanner and leather dresser, of Marsh Gate Lane, Stratford; I live in a small house in the tan yard, belonging to my employer. On Wednesday evening, 13th May, about half past 10 o'clock, I heard a noise on the roof—I went out and saw two men on the roof, they had made an opening and taken away some lead—I left them there, and went and came back with a policeman—as I was running with the policeman, we met a man, and the policeman took his lantern, and put it on his face—we then proceeded and met the prisoners carrying some lead on their shoulders, I am sure of them—they turned round my cottage, and when they saw us, they threw away the lead, and one of them jumped into the water, and the policeman took him; the other cut his sticks along the houses, and two policemen went round and took him—I am certain of these two men.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Was not it a very dark night? A. It was not so dark but I could see the men very distinctly—I have never seen Grant before.
JOSEPH GOODSON . (Policeman, K 227). The last witness came to me about half past 10 o'clock, and I went with him to the tan yard—I met Grant, and turned my light on him, and he went past me; I saw that he had nothing—I ran to a brother constable a little in advance, and spoke to him—I went to the rear of the premises, and saw M'Quade and another man, each with some lead on their shoulders—I pursued one, and M'Quade went about twenty yards and jumped into the river, a branch of the Lea—I ran round to the other side and snapped at him, but he threw himself back into the river again; another witness went to the other side, and at last he asked to be helped out—I helped him out and took him—the other man escaped—my brother constable picked up the lead—I afterwards went to the house, matched the lead with the roof, and found that it corresponded.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Are you quite sure M'Quade is the man? A. Yes, he jumped into the river, and walked across, it was only up to his waist—I had to run about 300 yards before I caught him, and then he went into the river again, and stayed there three or four minutes—he then asked me to give him a hand out.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Do you know what became of the other man? A. No; he is supposed to be Ward.
WALTER KERRESEY . (Policeman, K 35). On Friday evening, 15th May, about half past 11 o'clock, in consequence of information, I went to No. 7, Cottage Gate, Marsh Lane, Stratford, with Lambert—Grant lives there; he put his head out of the window, and I requested him to come down and open the door—he came down, and I asked him where he was on Wednesday night, about half past 10 o'clock, he said that he was in bed by half past 9 o'clock—I asked him if he was not in company with M'Quade and Ward; he said that he did not see them, but afterwards said that he was in their company at Bow at half past 8 o'clock—I asked Lambert if Grant was the man he had seen throw down some lead and run away—he said that he was—I then asked him if he was certain; he said, "I am quite sure of it, because I turned my light on him, and he ran past me"—Grant replied, "Yes, you turned your light on me, and I was there, but I know nothing about the lead."
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Does he live in that neighbourhood? A. Yes—that conversation was on the Friday after the Wednesday on which the robbery was; it was after the first examination before the Magistrate; that was on the Thursday; M'Quade being in custody, and the other man not having been found—I do not think Grant said that he was drinking with them at Bow; to the best of my knowledge he did not—I heard Goodson examined before the Magistrate.
LEWIS LAMBERT . (Policeman, K 311). On Wednesday, 13th May, about half past 10 o'clock, I went with Goodson to these premises, and met Grant, who I have known five or six years—I had got my light turned on; he dropped this piece of lead (produced) from under his arm as soon as he saw me coming up—he ran past me, but I could not stop him because he shot by me too fast—I saw M'Quade and Ward coming with another portion of lead, about fifteen yards behind Grant; I took M'Quade into custody, and picked up some more lead—I took the two pieces of lead to Mr. Caillard's premises, and they covered the hole, and corresponded; one was the piece which Grant dropped.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Have you ever said a word before about Grant running past you too fast? A. Yes; you will find it in my deposition—I swear that he ran—he had no lead then, he dropped it before he came up—it was twilight, I call it; it was not dark, as it was a nice clear moonlight night; I could have seen Grant if I had not had my light—I was examined as to M'Quade on Wednesday; I was not asked anything about that till Friday.
MR. DOYLE. Q. By twilight do you mean not very dark? A. Yes, I do not mean the light just after sunset—I swear I saw Grant drop the lead, I was in front of my brother constables; they were behind keeping back the people that were following us.
COURT. Q. Did you see the other man throw away the lead? A. Yes, I picked it up, it was seven or eight yards from M'Quade and Ward, and M'Quade went right into the river to escape us—there were three portions of lead altogether; I picked up the whole of it—I gave information to Kerresey—I did not know where Grant lived till Friday night, that is why I did not go.
JOHN THOMPSON . I am a beer shop keeper, of Stratford. I know the prisoners—on Wednesday night, 13th May, about half 9 o'clock, not later, I met them coming up Marsh Gate Lane together, about 100 yards from Mr. Caillard's premises.
Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. Does Grant live in that neighbourhood? A. Yes, he has got a cottage there—there are seven or eight cottages, and only one privy, common to the lot.
(The prisoners received good characters, and Grant's master engaged to take him again.)
GRANT— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined One Month.
M'QUADE— GUILTY .—He was further charged with having been before convicted.
JOSEPH BENTON . (Policeman, K 381). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; John Jones, Convicted, Aug., 1852, of stealing a handkerchief from the person; Confined one year")—I was present at the trial; M'Quade is the person.
GUILTY.— Confined Two Years.
Before Mr. Baron Channell.
JOHN BRIGHT COLLINS . I am a shoemaker, at Woolwich. The prisoner was in my employ for ten weeks—he was to make himself generally useful, clean the boots and shoes, run errands, and do anything that I required—I did not pay him any wages, but found him in board and lodging—I employed him to take bills to customers, to get the money, he was to receipt the bills in my name, and account to me directly he came back—on 4th June I sent him with a letter to Mr. Bethune, on board the Defence hulk—it was sealed, and in an envelope—I told him that I believed Mr. Bethune would give him 5l. on my account, and he was to make all possible speed back—I did not see him again till Saturday morning, the 6th, when he came to my house in a state of intoxication—I said, "You scoundrel, what have you done with my money?"—he said, "I have got a penny, do as you like with me"—he wished me to write to his friends at Windsor, and they would make it all right for him—I declined to do so, and gave him into custody.
DAVIE BETHUNE . I am a warder on board the Defence hulk, at Woolwich. I received this letter, went ashore, and saw the prisoner—I gave him five sovereigns—he did not give me any receipt—I advanced the money upon this letter.
(The prisoner put in a written defence, stating that he was not servant to the prosecutor, but merely a lodger; that he took the letter for him, and that after receiving the money he met with a friend, and got intoxicated, and was robbed of the money.)
GUILTY. of larceny.— Confined Four Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
742. WILLIAM SAMUEL BROUGHTON (35) and ANN BROUGHTON (33) , Stealing, on 23rd May, 1lb. weight of butter, value 1s., and 19s., in money; the property of Henry Knight, the master of William Samuel Broughton.
MR. DOYLE. offered no evidence against ANN BROUGHTON— NOT GUILTY .
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY KNIGHT . I am a cheesemonger, of Richard Street, Woolwich; my predecessor was Mr. Hughes; I succeeded him last April. I knew he was in the habit of occasionally employing the prisoner—the prisoner was also leading hand of the labourers in the dockyard—he was employed by Mr. Hughes, and afterwards by me, at the butter scale, on the Friday and Saturday night in each week, for which he was paid 4s. 6d.—I made a communication to a policeman, and on the evening of 23rd May I marked five sovereigns and seven half sovereigns—I sent the prisoner into the back room to get a glass of wine—I then cleared the till of all the gold that was in it, and placed five sovereigns and seven half sovereigns in it—I am quite certain there was no other gold there—the prisoner returned to his business—I did not watch him myself—I afterwards received a communication from Miss Hook—I went and cleared the till again of the gold—I found in it six sovereigns, and five half sovereigns; that was one sovereign more than
I had put in, and two half sovereigns less—I examined the sovereigns, and found there were five marked, and one not marked—I called the prisoner into the parlour, and accused him of robbing the till—he said that he had not—I then asked him what his wife gave him—his answer was, "A sovereign"—I asked him where it was—he said that he put it into the till—I said, "How can that be? here is only the same amount that there was without that; if she gave you a sovereign where is it?"—he then said it was a bad job, it could not be helped—I gave him into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you count the silver? A. No—there was a good deal of silver in the till—several more persona served in the shop, but the prisoner was the only one who had access to that till—it was near the window—I employed the prisoner only to stand at that till, and serve nothing but butter—no one else would go to that till except myself—I have never seen others go to it—I had two tills then, I have now three—I had four men serving besides the prisoner—I, and my wife, and the prisoner were behind the counter—the other men were on the other side of the counter—I and my wife received money—I put the money I received into my pocket, and my wife would put her's into the other till—I was present when the prisoner's wife was served, but I did not see her—there was a butter slab between me and her, about 3 feet wide, and 2 1/2 feet high—I was within a yard of the prisoner—there might have been three or four more customers at the scale at the time he was serving his wife—the counter may be about 12 feet long.
Q. Did not the prisoner say, "If there is any mistake about it, I am very sorry for it?" A. He said that it must be a mistake; he did not say in my presence that he was very sorry for it—there were several persons present when I put the gold into the till—my wife and one of my young men saw me mark it—I made a notch in the edge with a file—I counted seven half sovereigns, and five sovereigns, and put 8l. 10s. on the piece of paper I put them in—that was about 4 o'clock, and kept them in a drawer in my bureau, in my parlour—about half past 8 o'clock I took them out, and put them into a small pocket under my apron, and transferred them to the till—I did not count the silver either time—the prisoner has been with me since I took the business, on 1st April—he was recommended to me by my predecessor; he had been with him about six years.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Did the prisoner sell butter only? A. Yes, and the till he was by was the butter till—the counter stretches along one side—the other persons were on the other side of the shop, where I keep bacon—the money they take they place in a box behind their scale; no money is passed to me or to the prisoner on Saturday evenings—on Friday evenings it is, but not on Saturdays—it is then given to me on the close of business—the prisoner would receive no money but for butter—I recollect the sum I put into the till was 8l. 10s., and that sum I took out.
COURT. Q. From the time you put the money into the till, did your wife pass you at all? A. No, nor did the prisoner—it was about half past 8 o'clock when I put the money into my pocket, and about 9 o'clock I put it into the till—I did not put the gold into the till I received information that the prisoner's wife was on her way to the shop—I then sent him into the parlour to have a glass of wine, and put the gold into the till.
JEMIMA MARY HOOK . On Saturday night, 23rd May, I went to Mr. Knight's shop, at 9 o'clock, to watch the prisoner—I took a cheque to get change—I remained in the shop, watching the prisoner—a woman came in, and had three quarters of a pound of butter and two eggs—she gave him a
sovereign, and he gave her change, a half sovereign and some silver—he put the sovereign into the till—I saw the prisoner's wife come in directly after the other woman—the prisoner gave her a pound of butter, and two half crowns, four shillings, and a half sovereign—she did not give the prisoner any money—I was watching closely—if she had given any money, I must have seen it—I saw the prisoner's wife go out, and I spoke to Mr. Knight.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there many in the shop? A. There was only one woman besides his wife—when she had the butter, she went out directly—I do not know who the woman was that had the butter and eggs; she came in, and went out—there was only me and her, and one other woman—the prisoner's wife was not in the shop when he served the other woman—there was one other woman, and she remained in the shop when I came out—those were the only three persons in the shop when he served the butter—I saw Mr. Knight behind the counter, lower down than the prisoner; I do not think he saw the prisoner's wife—I am not quite sure whether she had a basket, but I think she had; I do Dot know which hand she carried it with—I saw her receive the money with her right hand—I am sure of that—I was close to her, as close as could be—the prisoner stood close to the till while his wife was there—I did not see any one go to the till besides the prisoner—his wife took the butter, and went out directly—I was standing close to the counter, and she was on my right hand—her left hand was towards me—she was close to the counter—I was not watching whether she had a basket—my attention fixed on the money.
COURT. Q. Do you know the policeman? A. Yes—it was by his desire I went there.
JAMES WILLIAM CROUCH . (Policeman, R 118). In consequence of something said to me by Mr. Knight, I watched his shop—on the evening of 23rd May I watched the prisoner's wife—I saw her go from her house, in St. Mary's Street, to Mr. Knight's shop—I was in plain clothes—she went in, and the prisoner weighed her some butter—I was in the shop at the corner—the prisoner then opened the till, and gave her two half crowns, four shillings, and one half sovereign; he pulled the drawer out a little further, and took out the half sovereign—his wife did not give him any money—I was in a position in which I could see all that passed—I can positively swear she gave him no money—she came out, and I followed her—I saw Gibson, pointed her out to him, and asked him to watch her while I went into the shop to tell Mr. Knight to take the money out of his till—I then went to the prisoner's wife, and told her to give up the money which she had got in her hand—she was rather reluctant—I said, "I am an officer; if you won't give it to me, give it to this person"—I saw her give Gibson some money—I went back to the shop, and Mr. Knight called the prisoner into the parlour—I told him he must take his apron off, and go with me, as I was a policeman, and he was charged with giving his wife 19s., and she gave him no money—he said, "Yes, she did"—Mr. Knight said, "No, she did not; there was only the amount of money which I put into the till."
Cross-examined. Q. Where were you? A. Just in the entrance of the shop—I know Hook as being a neighbour, that is all—she was standing right at the back of the prisoner's wife, who was standing close to the counter, on this side of the butter board—she had a basket on her arm—she took it off her arm, and put it on the counter before her, and Hook
was behind her—I was standing right on the left hand side of the prisoner's wife, about half a yard from the door—I did not ask for any butter—there were not above one or two persons in the shop—I saw Mr. Knight serving—I cannot say whether he saw the prisoner's wife—I can only say what I saw—I did not see any one else go to the till—I did not see the other woman served.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Have you the money here? A. Yes—it was given to me by Gibson.
WILLIAM THOMAS GIBSON . I live at Woolwich, and am clerk to the Contractor of Works. On the night of 23rd May I was passing the street—I saw Crouch and the woman—I heard something about some change and some money—the woman gave me a half sovereign, two half crowns, and four shillings, which was in her hand—I gave the same money to Crouch—this is it.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor. — Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. ELLIS., for the Prosecution, offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .—(See next case.)
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.
MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLOTTE JAMES . I am the wife of John James, of No. 25, High Street, Woolwich. On Saturday night, 9th May, about 9 o'clock, the prisoner came and bought a common tea spoon, it came to 2d.—she gave me a 4d. piece, I gave her 2d. change, and she went away—I put the groat into a desk where there was no other, and in about five minutes Newell came in, bent it, and took it away—I know Mrs. Evans, and believe her to be confined; I knew that it was coming on.
JOHN NEWELL . (Police sergeant, R 59). I know Mr. Fuller, the surgeon; I saw him write this certificate last evening—I have been to inquire about Mrs. Evans, and hear that she was confined the day before yesterday, but did not see her—no member of her family is here—on Saturday night, about 9 o'clock, I saw the little boy Thomas Barnes, who is acquitted, standing outside Mr. James's shop—the prisoner was inside the shop—she came out to the boy, and they proceeded down High Street, and shortly afterwards returned, and she left the boy and went to Mrs. Evans's shop, and purchased a crab—I was close by her—she said to Mrs. Evans, "Here is a 4d. piece Ma'am"—Mrs. Evans gave her change, and I went into the shop and received the 4d. piece from her, and it was bad—the prisoner had then just left—I saw her join the boy again at the corner of Hare Street—I took her and told her the charge—I saw her putting her hand towards her breast—I took this other 4d. piece from her hand, and told her that she must go to the station; she said, "Very well"—at the station she said that she lived in Plumstead, but she should refuse her address—she gave it afterwards at Sandy Hill, which is in Plumstead, but gave no particular place—this 4d. piece (produced) was given to me by Mrs. Evans—I was at the police Court when the prisoner was charged, she had an opportunity of cross-examining
the witnesses—the depositions were afterwards read over to the witnesses and signed in her presence.
COURT. to CHARLOTTE JAMES. Q. When did you see Mrs. Evans? A. On Saturday evening—she was then very ill, and in my judgment it was dangerous for her to come to town. (The deposition of Mrs. Evans being read was to the effect that the prisoner purchased a crab of her, and gave her a bad 4d., piece.)
JOHN NEWELL . re-examined. 2s. in copper, and 4s. 6d. in silver, good money, was found on the prisoner, and 3s. in copper on the boy, and about twenty small articles, but the prisoner had none—I have not been to Plumstead, for I have been at Woolwich for the last ten years, and I know that the prisoner lives in the Borough.
CHARLES HANSFORD . (Policeman, R 140). I took the boy—he had a lot of trifling things, tea, pepper, and other articles—the prisoner said that she lived at No. 10, up a turning at Sandy Hill, but I could not find her when I went; I believe she lives in the Borough—she said that the boy was her brother.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.
MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
RALPH CREFFIELD . (Policeman, F 115). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court. Elizabeth Perrin, Convicted of uttering three counterfeit shillings on the same day. Confined one year")—I was present at the trial—the prisoner is the person—I apprehended her.
JOHN WILLIAM BECK . I am a greengrocer, of Plumstead Road. On Saturday night, 16th May, rather late, the prisoner came for some potatoes—they came to 3d.—she gave me a 5s. piece—I gave it to my wife—she gave me 4s. 6d. change, and I took 3d. out of a half pottle measure—I gave the prisoner the change, and she left—something was said to me, and I went into the back room, and found that the crown was bad—I went out, but could not find the prisoner—I put it by itself in a drawer, and next morning marked it, and gave it to Butler—I saw the prisoner again on the Tuesday, and knew her to be the same woman.
ELIZABETH BECK . I am the wife of the last witness. He gave me a crown on 7th May, and I gave him 4s. 6d.—while he was gone into the shop, I noticed that it was bad, and about two minutes afterwards I gave it to him.
JOHN DOUGLAS . I am a greengrocer, of Green's End, Woolwich. On Tuesday morning, 5th May, the prisoner came for a bunch of greens—they came to 4d., and she gave me a half crown; I put it into the till where there was no other, and gave her 2s. 2d. change; she went away, and came back presently, saying that the greens were too dear—I took them back, and gave her the same half crown back, and she went away—she came back again, and said that it was a bad one—I called her an old faggot, and said that it was the same—she said that it was not, and that she had given me ft good one—she kicked up a row in the shop, and my wife, who was very unwell, gave her a good one to get rid of her, and I put the bad one into a jar on the mantelpiece by itself, and afterwards gave it to Newell.
Prisoner. The Magistrate told you to look round, and you said, "Yes, that is the woman, she has got a cut on her face; if you allow me to speak to her, I shall know better;" I was willing to speak, but the Magistrate
would not allow it." Witness. That is true, but I recognised you as soon as I saw the scar on your face—I am quite satisfied you are the party.
PHILIP NEWMAN . I am a baker, of the New Road, Woolwich. On Tuesday, 5th May, at half past 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for half a quartern of flour—I saw her served—she put down a good half crown, and 2s. 2 1/4 d. change was given to her in my presence—she then said that the flour would not suit her—the person who was serving her then drew my attention to a shilling which was in her hand; I caught hold of her hand to take it from her, and she fell down, and put it into her mouth, but before that I had seen her take up one of the good shillings and put down a bad one—I caught her wrist, but could not get the shilling, as we had a struggle, but I am sure it was not a good shilling in her hand.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I take the flour? A. Yes, but you said that it would not suit you, and put it on the counter; it was paid for then.
WILLIAM BUTCHER . (Policeman, R 85). I took the prisoner at New Street, Woolwich, on 5th May, and told her that I wanted her for ringing the changes at Mr. Newman's shop—she did not deny it, and I took her to the station—Mr. Beck came there shortly afterwards, and gave me this 5s. piece (produced).
Prisoner's Defence. On Saturday, 2nd May, and on the Thursday before, my husband and I had a quarrel; I locked him up in Smithfield station, and he would have been committed, but I asked for mercy, as he had a job of work, and he was bound over to keep the peace; I and my mother had to appear on the 2nd, and at 2 o'clock I was at Guildhall, as the policeman can state, and the books too; I did not leave there till 3 o'clock; I have a bad leg, and it took me some time to get home; I got home about 4 o'clock; I stopped at the door for an hour with a child, which was there belonging to a person who is a lunatic; my mother, who is an aged woman of seventy-four, went to Leather Lane to sell wash leather, and I was there with her at 6 o'clock; I remained at the door at 8 o'clock, and have witnesses to prove that I was at home at 9 o'clock, and one witness, who was in bed with me, at 9 o'clock; Mr. Beck came to the station, and begged me to take off my shawl; he was some time considering, and said, "Take it off further;" I did so, and he said, "Yes, that is the woman;" and I was locked up again; I met my mother about 7 o'clock, and we slept together, and had our breakfast in the morning; and when she went out she said that she was going to London; and Mr. Beck, finding that I had slept with her, sent after her by the string that they have on the railroad, by which they took her quicker; they gave her a glass of gin, and after that 7s. 8d. was found on her, but the Magistrate discharged her, and she is in Court.
The Prisoner called
MRS. MARY CASEY . I live at No. 3, Holborn Buildings. I remember the prisoner and her husband having a quarrel—she came into my room on Saturday, 2nd May, at 8 o'clock in the morning, and she went up against her husband on that day—she left my room in a few minutes, but she did not go to the Hall at that time, because I heard her in her mother's room, which is in the same house—she was stopping with her mother, having quarrelled with her husband—I saw her last on the evening of the 7th, with my child across her lap—I did not see her between 8 o'clock in the morning and 7 in the evening—I last heard her voice about 10 o'clock; I am sure it was her
voice—when I came there was only the two in the room, her mother and herself—I said, "Is that Mrs. Perrin there?" and they said, "Yes"—this woman speaks quite different to what the old woman does, and there was nobody else there—I did not go into the room to see—I knew it was her voice, and I saw her as late as between 9 and 10 o'clock at night—I saw her sitting at her master's door at 10 o'clock at night—I will swear it was 10 o'clock, and at 7 in the evening she gave me my child—after I had given my children their supper, she was sitting on the step of the door—that was 8 o'clock, and she never moved away from the door from 8 till 10—I have known her to sit for hours at the door—I cannot say that she did not move, but I saw her sitting there at 8 o'clock and at 10—I am a dealer in all manner of things; poultry, and fruit, and everything I can get—I hawk them from place to place.
Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. Did you see this woman before 7 o'clock in the evening? A. No, but I heard her speak at 10 o'clock in the morning; if I did not say that at first, I was perhaps confused—I was conducting my family in the morning part, putting my children to rights for the day, and from 7 o'clock to 10 in the evening I had occasion to go out on errands—there are clocks convenient—perhaps I had to go to a pawn shop, or several little places—I have never been in any trouble—I know this was on 5th May, because the woman brought a certificate from Guildhall to prove that she was in a bother with her husband—she came to me in the morning out of her mother's room, and she had not a bit of shoe or stocking on—I believe she walked to Guildhall, but I was not at home when she came back—I expect she was able to walk about.
ELLEN DOWNS . On Saturday, 2nd May, I lodged with the prisoners mother. I have lodged with her for eighteen months—I left the prisoner in bed at 5 o'clock on this morning, and went to Billingsgate Market, and, coming home at 11 o'clock, I met her going to Guildhall against her husband—I saw her again several times that day up to 4 o'clock, and when I went home at half past 11 o'clock at night she was in bed with her mother—I lodged in her mother's room, and am sure she was in bed at half past 11 o'clock—I have been keeping my sister's stall, in Leather Lane—Holborn Buildings is a court—it is not on the right side of you as you go up Holborn Hill, it is just before you get to Gray's Inn Lane, just by Leather Lane—I gave her a bandage, and she bandaged her leg up—that was at half past 11 o'clock—I had seen her last before that about half past 6 o'clock.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know that it was Saturday, 2nd May? A. Because Friday was chimney sweeper's Day, 1st May—I had no clock in the room, but you can see one at the public house, in the court—I know it was about half past 11 o'clock when we generally leave—I did not bring the things home from the stall—they went to my sister's place—her children took the stall home—I saw the prisoner several times in the day after she came from Guildhall, with her mother, in Leather Lane—her mother was selling wash leather—I heard afterwards of the prisoner having been in custody for passing bad money—I did not tell this story before the Magistrate, because I was not required, and I had my bread to earn.—I am the prisoner's mother, and am seventy-five years of age. I remember Saturday, 2nd May, when my daughter's husband was taken to Guildhall—I sell wash leathers in Leather Lane, and my daughter came down there to me two or three times that evening—I stopped out till very nearly 11 o'clock, and when I got home I believe she was in bed with
this other woman—I know she slept there that night, and she was there about 11 o'clock—I saw her about 10 o'clock, in Leather Lane, crying fire ornaments—she came home because she had a bad leg, and could not stand—her husband had kicked her with his boot, and she was not able to move.
COURT. to J. W. BECK. Q. Were you a little doubtful at first? A. I could not see her properly—I wanted to look at the side of her where the scar was.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE POOLEY . I am a gunner and driver in the Royal Artillery, Woolwich. The prisoner was one of my comrades, and was in the same hut with me, at half past 8 o'clock, on Monday, 4th May—I had a purse in the folds of the blanket on my bed, containing three sovereigns and 17s. in silver—there was one half crown among it—I went out to drill, and returned to the hut about 12 o'clock, and missed it—there were twenty-three other beds in the same hut, one of which was the prisoner's; there were only two beds between his and mine—nearly all the men were out with me on drill, but Thomas was a prisoner in the guard room, having been absent over night—the purse has never been found.
JOHN KING . I am a gunner and driver in the Royal Artillery. I was cook's mate in this hut on 4th May—I was there when Pooley went out on drill—the prisoner came into the hut about 9 o'clock, and asked me to lend him 4d.—I told him that it was in my bed, and he must go and get it, and he went and got it, and went down to the stables, and he then ought to have gone to drill—he may have been in the hut an hour altogether, and I was outside, cleaning tables—there were three others there.
Prisoner. When you told me there was 4d. in the bed, I asked you to lend it to me till I got some change. Witness. I did not hear anything about change—I did not say so at the station.
THOMAS ALEXANDER WOOD . I am a greengrocer, of Deptford. On 4th May, about 12 o'clock, I was sitting in the Earl of Moira public house, and the prisoner and three other artillerymen came in; the prisoner called for half a pint of gin, and another for half a pint of rum—they handed it round for any one who chose to take part of it—they all four made the appearance of going towards the bar to pay for it, but I cannot say who did pay—when they came back, the prisoner took out of his waistcoat pocket some silver and gold together—I saw three sovereigns, with shillings between them—he held them between his fingers, and he told me that that lot was to be spent to-night—they wanted some more to drink, and the landlady would not serve them, as one of them was very drunk—the prisoner and the others were not so bad—they then all went away—I do not think he had any silver coin larger than shillings.
JOHN CROOK . I am a sawyer. On 4th May I went into the British Oak, and the prisoner, and two other soldiers, and a bricklayer's labourer, came in together—the prisoner asked them what they would have to drink—they said, "Some ale," and the prisoner said that he should have some rum—the
labourer said that he would go and fetch some, and asked the prisoner how much rum he should like—he said, "A pint," and gave him a sovereign—he brought back the rum, and gave the prisoner a half sovereign, two half crowns, and three shillings—the prisoner then gave the labourer 1s. to go and get two pots of 6d. ale, and while they were drinking it a piquet came to take them away, and I saw no more of them—the prisoner took the sovereign out of a little pocket by itself; he was not so drunk as the others.
ARCHER PERRIMAN . I am staff sergeant to the Royal Artillery at Woolwich. On 4th May, about 1 o'clock, I received a report of the loss of 3l. 17s. by the prosecutor—on the night before the prisoner was reported as absent, and when he came home he was put in prison, and released at 9 o'clock on the following morning—I reported the robbery to the officer in command, and be ordered me to send an escort after the prisoner—he had gone to his drill, but absented himself afterwards, and I sent a piquet to search for him and some others, and he was brought in by the piquet, about 2 o'clock, in my presence—I told him that I wanted all the money he had in his purse, and he gave me a sixpence and five pence—I asked him if that was all he had—he said that it was—I then ordered his boots and stockings to be taken off, and searched him, but could find no more money—in the afternoon I made further inquiries, in consequence of which I told him to take off his tunic, and in pulling back the skirt I heard money rattle—I shook it, and heard money—I found that a hole had been cut, and I took from between the cloth and lining two sovereigns, a half sovereign, and two half crowns—he said, "That is my money"—I afterwards received 5d. more from a bombardier, and went to the guard room, and found the prisoner with 2d. in his hand—I asked him to give it to me—he said that he would be d—if he would—I only know by inquiries that I made whether the prisoner had or had not money of his own that morning.
JAMES WILLIAM CROUCH . (Policeman, R 118). I took the prisoner in the cell when he was liberated four or five days afterwards—he had been confined there for breaking out of barracks—I told him that I was a policeman, and that he must go with me to the station for stealing 3l. 17s., the money of George Pooley, and said, "How do you account for the money that the sergeant took from you?"—he said that it was his own, and he should tell a better man than me—when we got to the station I said, "Now you will, perhaps, tell me where you got the gold from?"—he said that he had saved it up, and had had two sovereigns and two half sovereigns in his knapsack for a long while—I asked him whether he had any silver—he said, "No," that all he had was two sovereigns and two half sovereigns.
COURT. Q. What is the price of a pint of rum? A. 2s.
Prisoners Defence. I am innocent of it.
(He was further charged with having been before convicted.)
JAMES KING . I produce a certificate—(Read: "Surrey Sessions; George Thomas, Convicted, Feb., 1855, of stealing two trusses of hay; confined two months")—I had him in custody; the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY.— Confined Six Months.
THOMAS GILLETT . I am a grocer, of Charlton. On Sunday week, 7th June, I had a pony in Mr. Cope's orchard, on the Woolwich Road, nearly half a mile from my house—it was safe about 8 o'clock in the evening—Mr. Cope came and told me something about 3 o'clock next morning—I went to
the orchard about 4 o'clock, and it was gone—I gave information to the police, and got it from Brixton next day—I did not give anybody leave to take it out of the orchard—the value of it was 5l.—I do not know the prisoner.
JOHN COPE . I live at Charlton. On Monday morning, 8th June, I was lying in bed and heard the pony going out at the gate—I got up immediately, opened the door, and saw the prisoner holding the pony—I hallooed out, "Where are you going with that pony?"—he immediately looked round, mounted, and rode off—he did not my anything—I directly went to Mr. Gillett—the prisoner had passed my place twice the day before, and I am sure he is the man—it was quite light.
Prisoner. You stated that the man who stole the pony had a blue smock frock on, a thing which I never wore in my life. Witness. At the time he stole the pony he had a blue frock and a pair of corduroy trowsers.
JAMES DUNT . I am a livery stable keeper at Elpha Row, Brixton. On Monday, 8th June, at 11 o'clock, the prisoner rode into my yard on the pony, and said that he wanted to sell it—I asked him where he brought it from—he said that he had won it in a raffle at Westminster—that he was a painter, and rode it up to the Crystal Palace to seek for employment, and not getting any wanted to sell it, as he had got no money and wanted to get something to eat and drink—I lent him 5s. on it, and he left it in my care till the Tuesday evening, when he said that he would come for it and bring a proper direction where it came from, if I liked to buy it—I showed it to Mr. Gillett on the next day, and afterwards saw the prisoner in custody at Woolwich—he gave his name George Smith.
Prisoner. This witness speaks the truth, and he is the only one who does.
DANIEL MOYNAHAN . (Policeman, R 14). I took the prisoner on 8th June, at Woolwich—I told him the charge—he said, "I am not the man, it is quite a mistake"—it is about ten miles from Charlton to Brixton—on the next morning I told the prisoner that I was going in search of the pony—he said that I should find it at Mr. Dunt's, a livery stable keeper near the Crystal Palace—I went with Gillett and found it.
Prisoner's Defence. I got the pony in London; I have been in a mad-house, and I will go again.
GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months.
WILLIAM COLE . I am assistant to Thomas Robinson Baker, a draper, of Green's End, Woolwich. A person showed me a piece of print last Saturday week—it was my master's—I had seen it safe outside the shop door on a pile half an hour before—there was thirty-one yards, it was worth 18s.
RICHARD WILLIAM KEY (Policeman, R 399). On Saturday evening, 6th June, I was in Powis Street, near Green's End, about 7 o'clock, and saw the prisoner near the prosecutor's shop—I watched him, and saw him take this piece of print from the door and run away with it—I ran after him and caught him, 200 or 300 yards from the door, with it under his arm—he said, "This will do me."
GUILTY.**.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Baron Channell.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
EMMA HUDSON . I am the widow of the deceased Saint Thomas Hudson. On Saturday, 30th May, he left home about 2 o'clock—he was then sober, and in good health—he was brought home in a cab about 10 minutes to 12 o'clock at night—I thought he was then very tipsy—he had a black eye—he only said, "Where is my wife?"—he did not speak after that—a medical man attended him—he died at half past 6 o'clock on Sunday morning—I saw blood come from his nose and mouth in the course of the night.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. I believe he was rather a passionate man? A. At times, especially when a little in liquor.
JOHN WILCOX WAKEHAM . I am a surgeon, in South Street, West Square, Borough. On Sunday morning, 31st May, I was called upon to see Hudson; he was quite dead—I examined him; the cause of death was fractured skull, causing the rupture of a blood vessel, and a pouring out of blood on the brain—it was consistent with a fall on the pavement in a struggle.
ANN CLAPSHAW . I am a bookseller and stationer, and live at No. 11, Agar Street, Strand. On Saturday night, 30th May, I was in my back parlour at past 10 o'clock—I heard a scuffling noise; I went to the door, and saw a mob collected, and saw Mr. Kendall and Hudson quarrelling—Hudson was intoxicated—I heard high words between them, and they said they would fight—I persuaded them not to fight—they were both sparring together—I tried to separate them, but all at once they rushed together—I saw the prisoner's mother there, and she tried to part them—they fought together, and then Hudson fell—I heard the sound of the fall on the back of his head; you might have heard it some distance—the mob rushed in, and I was so agitated and frightened I ran in doors—Hudson fell direct on the pavement with the blow.
Cross-examined. Q. Was it not the deceased who would fight? A. Yes, being intoxicated, he was very quarrelsome—he made a rush at the prisoner—they went so quick together, that I could not tell which struck, I was so agitated—when Mrs. Kendall was between them, Hudson struck over her shoulder; I think he was rather too far off to touch him—I could not say that it did not—it was after that that they rushed together—Kendall appeared as if he was defending himself from the man's attack—they were both like sparring together, because Mr. Kendall had been very much annoyed by his calling him a thief—when they closed together, they fell almost immediately; he being tipsy, he had not strength to stand—he was extremely enraged—the prisoner seemed to be defending himself all through.
MARGARET CAROLINE ERSSER . I am the wife of Stephen Eraser, an upholsterer, at No. 11, Agar Street, Strand. On Saturday night, 30th May, I was passing up Agar Street, to my house, about 10 minutes or a quarter past 10 o'clock—I heard some words between two men—I turned round, and saw Mr. Kendall—I knew him as a neighbour, but never spoke
to him before—the other person was the deceased—as they were quarrelling I heard a slap over the face—they were in the attitude of fighting, sparring—I said to Kendall, "Don't fight, Dick"—he said, "How would you like a slap in the face, and to be called a b thief?"—they then both flew at one another as if they were going to fight, and I got out of the way—they fought and fell—I did not look at Kendall sufficiently to see what state he appeared in—Hudson seemed to be reeling about, but I did not take particular notice of him—he was a stranger to me.
Cross-examined. Q. He seemed to be in a great rage, did he not? A. Yes, in a great passion—I saw Mrs. Kendall, the prisoner's mother, there—I did not see her interpose; I passed into my own dwelling; I saw them fall—I heard the slap, but I cannot say who gave it—I saw them close and hug together like men who fight—I did not exactly notice whether Kendall appeared to be defending himself from the attack of the other; as far as I could see, it was so.
JAMES HOWELL . I keep a ham and beef shop in Horseferry Road, Westminster. On the night of 30th May I was in Agar Street, and saw the prisoner and deceased standing and talking to each other—as I passed up the street, I heard a slap in the face; I turned round, and saw them both in the attitude of fighting, but it seemed to me at if Mr. Hudson was commencing it, and Mr. Kendall was on the defensive—I did not observe any blows particularly struck at that time—Mrs. Kendall parted them—after a few minutes Hudson rushed at Mr. Kendall, and hit him over his mother's shoulder, which caused Mrs. Kendall to get out of the way; he then closed, and clutched Kendall round the waist, and tried to throw him, and they both wrestled together and fell together—one of the bystanders picked up Hudson, and found him insensible and incapable, and placed him on the step of a door—when they fell, I heard Hudson's head go against the pavement, and make a great report.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not Hudson appear very violent? A. Yes, he did; he rushed at the prisoner on two occasions, and seemed determined to attack him—I did not see the prisoner do more than defend himself—he got a cab for him, and did all he possibly could immediately afterwards.
JOHN ADAMSON . I saw the prisoner sign this deposition; it was read over to him before he signed it—he was cautioned that it might be used against him—(In this statement the prisoner described the quarrel as originating with the deceased, who struck the first blow; and that in the struggle they fell, and so the injury was occasioned.)
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM DAVIES . I live in High Street, Peckham. I am a shareholder in the Peckham Loan Society—I make inquiries on application being made for loans—in Feb., 1856, I received some directions, and in consequence I went to Pearson's house to make inquiries, and see how they were situated respecting a loan—that was on 14th Feb.—I saw Eliza Pearson, and produced
to her this paper, which is a form filled up by the borrower—it was filled up as it is now, with the exception of one erasure—I asked her who it was filled up by—she said her husband—it is an application by James Pearson, shoemaker, for a loan of 3l.—the note purports to be signed by James Pearson—the security was to be a promissory note to be given by James Pearson—when I showed this form of application to Eliza Pearson she said it was for her husband—I asked where he was—she said he was not at home—I then went to Head, the security—he said he was willing to become security—I showed him the paper, and asked him if he was willing to put his name at the bottom—he said yes, he was willing to become the security for James Pearson—I told him I had not seen Mr. Pearson, but he must see him, and tell him to be with him at our office on the Monday night following, and the money would be paid—on 18th Feb. the two prisoners came—I asked Mrs. Pearson where her husband was—she said, "He is not here"—I said, "You must go and fetch him; we cannot do business without him"—to the best of my recollection they both went away together—Head said he might be home by that time—they came back with a third person, who represented himself as James Pearson, and he wrote his name to this promissory note—I showed him the form, and asked him if he wrote the name of James Pearson which was there to it—he said, "No"—I said, "Then you must write your name here, on the form, and the application as well"—I erased the one that was written, and he wrote his name in the two places—Mr. Cork asked Mrs. Pearson whether the person who was standing there was her husband—she said it was—Head was present, and heard her say that—the promissory note was signed by the three, and I passed the money over to the strange man, the supposed James Pearson—it was 2l. 15s. 3d.—the promissory note is for 3l. 3s.—I called at the house of Pearson when the money was about three weeks or a month in arrears—I saw a man, and I asked whether Mr. Pearson was in—he said, "My name is Pearson"—I said, "You are not the man that came to our office and signed this promissory note"—he said, "No"—I afterwards saw Eliza Pearson—I told her I had seen her husband, and he knew nothing about the promissory note—I asked her what she gave the man to come to our office and sign the promissory note—she said, "Two shillings"—I asked her what she had done with the remainder of the money—she said she divided it between Head and herself—I told her husband knew nothing of it, he never borrowed any money of us, and he was not the man who came to our office—she said she would settle the matter—I told her, unless she did, it would come to something very serious—she said she would see Mr. Head, and get him to pay half the money back with her.
Head. You know I was not there when the money was paid; I said I had some work to do, and if I signed the note there she might come with her husband afterwards; I never saw the man at all that she took; you came to me, and sued me at the County Court Witness. Yes, but did not obtain it—I believe I did offer to you to pay 1s. a week.
JOHN BOND . (Police sergeant, P 2). I took Pearson into custody on 29th May; the last witness was with me—he said that he gave her in charge for conspiring, and attempting to defraud the Peckham Loan Society—he said to her, "Do you mean to say that you don't know that man that you gave the 2s. to?"—she said she did not know him—he said, "How did you come to find him?"—she said, "When you would not pay us the money, and said Mr. Pearson was to come, we went out, and I got a man to sign it for 2s. "—I took Head at No. 4, William Court—I told him it was on a
charge of conspiring to cheat the Peckham Loan Society—he said, "Is this Pearson's affair?"—I said, "Yes, it is"—he said, "Good God, if I had known it would have come to this, I would have settled if—he said he was out of the way for some County Court process—I asked him if he knew Pearson—he said yes, for five or six years; he lived next door to him—I asked him if he became security for him for a loan—he said, "Yes"—I told him Mrs. Pearson was in custody, and she had stated that Head suggested the loan, and had had the principal part of the money—I told him that Mrs. Pearson had said that they got a man for 2s. by the Crown public house, at Peckham, to sign the note; that when they said at the office that they could not have the loan without the security, that Head said they could get a man for 2s., and that Head had gone to her house and waited while she went for the man, and they all three went for the money—Head said it was wrong—when I told him that he had had the principal part of the money, he said he had only had 1l. 1s. out of a debt of 1l. 3s. that Pearson owed him—I told him that Mrs. Pearson said that she had tried to get a loan from another loan society previous to this, and Head had offered to become security for her—he said yes, he had, but they could not obtain it.
Head. Q. Did I not tell you that I would be security for one society? A. Yes, you said you had offered to become security for one society.
JOHN POW . I keep the Montpelier Tavern, and am a shareholder of the Peckham Loan Society. In Feb. Pearson applied for a loan of 3l., but I do not remember seeing her—I saw her on 18th Feb.; Head was with her, and some strange man—having known her before, I said to her, "This is not the Mr. Pearson I used to know as your husband"—she said, "That was not my husband, but this is my husband"—they then received the money, and went away with it.
Pearson's Defence. I am not guilty of the crime I am charged with, for Mr. Head offered to pay the money; I did not have the loan with a fraudulent intention; I was in distress at the time, my husband being out of employment; I have suffered a month's imprisonment already; I have lost my work and character through this affair; I was taken on the Friday; my husband had notice to quit on the Monday himself, and the children are now seeking shelter in a neighbour's house, until I get my liberty again to find a home for them; they are entirely depending upon me for subsistence, my husband having nothing to do at present; I throw myself on the mercy of the Court.
Pearson's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows: "Mr. Pearson was not present when I took the man to sign my husband's name; Mr. Head signed the promissory note; I asked the man to go and sign my husband's name, and he did, and I gave him 2s. "
Head's Defence. I am perfectly innocent of either seeing the man or having any intention to defraud; when I was brought to the County Court I told the witness I would pay a shilling a week, but I never heard anything more till I was taken into custody; I do not believe Mrs. Pearson had any intention to defraud.
NOT GUILTY .
The prisoners were again indicted for forging and uttering the promissory note, on which no evidence was offered.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MESSRS. SLEIGH. and LAXTON. conducted the Prosecution.
MATTHEW MORAN . I live at No. 28, High Street, Newington, and am a hosier. On 22nd April, a young man, named Cordier, called on me about 20 or 25 minutes before 10 o'clock, and at that time I saw a person outside looking in at my window; to the best of my belief Sullivan was the person—on that evening, previous to retiring to bed, I saw that the house was fastened—before 12 o'clock I went round to see that the gas was out, and all the doors fastened—the back window was then shut—the shutter was put up, and the screw put in the centre—that was perfectly secure, and the door between the shop and the hall was locked—on the morning of 23rd April, I was roused by the policeman—I went down and found the policeman in the hall, and the hall door was open—I went into the shop, and found the back window open—the shutter was put down, the screw taken out, and thrown into the garden—the blind was thrown into the garden, and the window was down—I found the place had been regularly ransacked, and a great amount of property taken away—I missed shawls, a coat, some plated chains and rings, neck ties, shirts, and a great many articles—I estimate the value of the whole at about 150l.—my cash box had been broken open with a jemmy, or some instrument—some of the articles have been shown to me by the policeman—here is one handkerchief which has my mark on it.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Did you ever say anything before to-day about Sullivan being outside your premises? A. Yes, at the police Court—I dare say my evidence was taken down in writing—the deposition was read over to me and I signed it—I do not think that any evidence I gave about Sullivan was taken down—it was not given till after the deposition was taken, I believe—when I was before the Magistrate, I recollected all that referred to this matter; I recollected the amount of my loss—to the best of my belief my loss was 150l., but that amount is not down in the deposition.
JOHN PETHERS . (Police inspector, E). On 8th May, I went, about 5 o'clock in the evening, to the Alpha beer house, which is kept by William Scaines, in Alpha Place, Caledonian Road—there was a girl behind the bar—I went up stairs to the second floor back room—we knocked at the room door, which, after some hesitation, was opened by Taylor, who was in his shirt, and Sullivan was in bed—I told him to get up—I left the room, leaving the prisoners in charge of a constable; I went down stairs, and William Scaines came up—I told him I had apprehended two of his lodgers for a robbery, and we had every reason to believe that some of the stolen property was in his possession, and I should take him into custody, and search his premises—he said, "I know nothing about it, I know nothing of it"—we commenced searching the house—I think we first went into a room on the second floor—not the room we had gone into before, but I do not speak to the finding of any thing there—I was with the other officer when he found a small bundle containing some handkerchiefs, in a cupboard—there were some keys found in the second floor back room—on going down stairs, Henry Scaines was brought in by a constable whom I had instructed for the purpose—I told him I should apprehend him on suspicion of a robbery, and we should go and search his lodging—his lodging is at No. 7, Alpha Place—when woo got there we went into the first floor front room, and in a box we found twenty scarfs, nineteen neck ties, thirty cravats, seventy silk
pocket handkerchiefs, and in other parts of the room we found a clock, a timepiece, a wrapper, a scarf, a shawl, three shirts; and in a drawer in the back room, two scent bottles, silver mounted—seven plated brooches, and a purse—I then returned to the beer shop, and told Henry Scaines that we had found some of the property—he said, "I know nothing about it"—but some time afterwards he said, "I can account for them; receipts are curious things"—at the examination at the police court, I took a pair of boots off Taylor, which I compared with some footmarks in the garden at Mr. Moran's, and found them to correspond exactly with the impression left there—the garden is at the back of the house.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Were Sullivan and Taylor in the same room? A. Yes, Sullivan was in bed, and Taylor was undressed—I do not know whether there are lodgers in the house, I never was in it before in my life—Taylor took those boots off and handed them to me—we had to furnish him with a pair in lieu of those we had taken—we took possession of another pair from Henry Scaines at the same time—I compared these boots with the marks in the garden—the burglary was on the night of 22nd April—these marks were examined on 9th May, seventeen days after the burglary had been committed—I cannot recollect whether it had rained in the mean time—when I went to the garden the impressions had been covered with a board about two feet six inches wide, by about three feet long—the board covered two footprints, to the best of my recollection—I cannot speak as to whether the longest way of the board was over the prints—the whole of two prints were covered by the board—the two steps were right and left—I made the comparison by planting the boot of the prisoner by the side of the impression, and took a small rule out of my pocket, and measured them—the width of the heel and the toe—I found they corresponded as nearly as possibly could be—the soil was light mould—I think the boot measured about eleven inches and a half, I have the boots here.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. This house that Henry Scaines lives in is a lodging house? A. I am not aware that it is—I saw the landlady up stairs—it is a small house, tenanted by about two families; I did not hear anything of a person named Campbell, who has since absconded—I never heard the name before—these handkerchiefs and silk were in the front room, and the scent bottles, and brooches, and purse in the back room—there was one bed in the front room—I did not observe any bed in the back room—he said, "I can account for them, receipts are curious things"—I had not enumerated all the articles that I had found—I said we had found some of the property—I mentioned none of them—the other constable had had conversation, with him before he was brought in custody, by a constable, before the articles were found in his lodging—I left him in charge of the constable in the beer shop.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. Were you the first to enter this Alpha public house? A. Yes; I saw a young female, I believe the daughter of William Scaines; I asked her if Mr. Scaines was at home, she said, "No," he was not—I went up stairs to the second floor back room where Sullivan and Taylor were—just as we loft that room William Scaines was coming up stairs—I do not know whether he intended to come to where we were—when I left the room I went into the second floor front room—I did not find anything there, but there was something found—I did not inquire who occupied that room—I think there was a bed stood on the right, but I would not be positive—there was no one in that room—I then went to the first floor—a sergeant was with me all the time—William Scaines's wile was
there—I think it was in the back room on the first floor—I then went down to the bar—I bad not looked into the bar before I went up stain—in a cupboard in the bar I found a small bundle of silk handkerchiefs, which the constable has got—William Scaines was present when the bundle was found—the cupboard was not locked, it was shut; a table stood before it—if the table were moved, and the cupboard were open, we could see the contents of the cupboard—that was all that I witnessed being found in the bar—I have not learned that there are several lodgers in the different rooms that I went into—I did not hear from the landlord or his daughter that there are other lodgers in the house—I had no knowledge of the house—I never was in it before.
MR. LAXTON. Q. Where was this cupboard? A. In the bar, which is very narrow—behind the bar the distance is not more than from three to four feet—the table was placed in a small recess, and partly obscured the cupboard.
SAMUEL COPPIN . (Police sergeant, P 15). In consequence of information that I received, I went to the house of William Scaines on 8th May, about 5 o'clock in the afternoon—it is a beer shop in Alpha Place, Caledonian Road—I saw William Scaines on the stairs, and an officer, who was with me, spoke to him—I went into the back room on the second floor, level with the room where Sullivan and Taylor were in bed—in that room there was a cupboard, which was locked—I asked William Scaines if he had the key of it—he said, "No"—I said, "You must gut it; if you don't, I shall break it open"—he went and got the key, and opened it—I found in it nine skeleton keys—I went into the front room, on the floor underneath, and searched a drawer, where I found this chain and this watch—in a cupboard in the bar on the left, I found seven more skeleton keys; and in a cupboard on the other side I found these two parcels, one in this handkerchief, and the other in a piece of newspaper—on a table in the bar I found a cornopean case and a flute—I found two duplicates—I saw Henry Scaines brought into the beer shop, and we immediately went to his lodgings, where I found seventeen duplicates; one of them relates to this coat, which has been since identified—I found Henry Scaines wearing this neck tie, and in his pocket I found this watch, this chain, and a mourning ring.
MR. MORAN. (re-examined). I cannot swear positively that this is my tie—I know I had the same sort of goods.
SAMUEL COFFIN . Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were all these articles of dress found in one room? A. Yes, all in a box in the room—I do not know whether there was a lock to the box—it was not locked—there was a link to it—there was one bed in that room—I did not hear anything about a man of the name of Campbell—the duplicates were found in another box in the same room, on the first floor—I went up to the second floor—I went into all the rooms—I examined the footmarks the next morning after the robbery—I covered the footmarks over with boards—the ground was very wet that morning.
Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. When William Scaines came up stairs to you did he not give you every assistance? A. I do not know that he did anything, either one way or the other—he did not offer any impediment—there was a deal table and some chairs in the room up stairs—there was no bed—I found the cupboard locked, and asked him if he had the key; he said, "No;"—I said, "You must get it, or I shall break the door open"—if he said he did not know where to find the key, he said it as he went along—he was not above a minute or two down stairs before he
brought the key up—I believe he opened the cupboard himself—there were tools there; chisels and other things—they were such tools as a locksmith or gasfitter would use—there was a length of gas pipe, and I made a remark, and he said he was a gasfitter—he said he used the keys in his business—I cannot recollect that he said he was a locksmith—I am not aware that there was anything in the cupboard except the tools and the gas piping—the room was not very clean—it was like a room used for rough work—I found more things of the same description down stairs, and in the other cupboard a bundle—on finding the bundle, I asked him how he could account for that; he said he did not know anything about them; he did not know they were there—I believe his daughter was not there at the time—I never saw her—she was there when I came down, and I never saw any more of her afterwards—the bar is a public bar—it is a place that anybody would enter directly from the street.
MR. LAXTON. Q. William Scaines keeps this beer house? A. Yes; and these tools were lying in the cupboard—on the way to the station, Henry Scaines said, "Who is the b—that put you up to this?"—I said, "That is telling"—he said, "If I had my mind, I would have them hung every Monday morning"—I said, "You would have a regular hanging day."
MR. RIBTON. Q. Where was it he said this? A. In the cab—Pethers was in the cab—I and Henry Scaines were on the other side—I believe Pethers heard it—I do not suppose he would be able to understand it correctly for the noise of the cab—I am quite sure I heard it correctly, because I replied, "You would have a regular hanging day"—Pethers was right opposite me, and Henry Scaines on my right hand side.
GEORGE HULL . (Policeman, P 164). On 8th May, Henry Scaines was in my custody—a little girl came to the door and asked him to come home, as two men were come to the house and they were going into his room—he said to her, "Go back and tell them not to let any one go into my room without they have got a search warrant."
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Do you live there with your husband? A. Yes; my two sons lodged with me and Campbell—Henry Scaines lodged with me about a year and a half—Campbell came there on the 14th Feb., and he remained with me up to the day that Henry Scaines was taken into custody—he came home the same evening at a little after 9 o'clock, and he left the same evening—I have not heard of him since—he slept with my son in the first floor front room—the same room that Henry Scaines slept in—there were two beds in the room—there were two boxes in the room—my son and Campbell had the use of those boxes—I do not know the box these things were found in—I was not at home—Henry Scaines was a jobbing jeweller and a dealer in plated goods, during the whole time he was with me—my sons slept in the same room as he did, and one of my sons slept in the bed with him—both my sons are at home still—Campbell had a carpet bag in that room—that was the only thing he had there—the boxes belong to me—I know Campbell had the use of those boxes.
SAMUEL COPPIN . re-examined. I found the duplicates in one of the boxes—there was some lumber in the box, a porte monnaie, and little charms, and other things—there were no articles of clothing—it was a box about a foot square.
JOSEPH LAMBERT . (Policeman, E 68). I searched the room where Taylor and Sullivan were—I found on Sullivan this neck tie, a porte monnaie and five duplicates in the pocket of the coat which Sullivan put on, and also another porte monnaie, containing 1l., 5s. in silver, 3d. in copper, and four medals; and under his coat, which was in a chair before he put it on, I found this jemmy, and this screw driver—Sullivan took this neck tie, and was going to put it on—I said to him, "Is that yours?"—he said, "No," and he took it off and threw it away—on Taylor I found this black neck tie, and this clock pendulum was lying on his clothes—Taylor said he bought this neck tie, and he asked me what the inspector and the other constables were doing down stairs—I told him they were searching the house—he asked if they had found the swag (which means stolen property)—I said I did not know—he said, "They are making plenty of row over it."
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Did you find this light neck tie on Sullivan? A. Yes—he took it away, and said it was not his—he was out of bed, dressing himself—I have made inquiries at the pawnbroker's—I found two implements on the chair under his clothes—there was no cushion on the chair—this black neck tie was on Taylor; he was wearing it—I did not tell Taylor that I had come to search for the property stolen, he had been told it, no doubt—the inspector had been in the room before me.
MATTHEW MORAN . re-examined. This coat is mine—the duplicate of it was found at Henry Scaines's—I cannot say positively that I saw it on the night before the robbery, but I know I hung it up a day or two before—this light neck tie that was found on Sullivan I believe is mine—I know I have the same sort of goods in stock—this black neck tie I have compared with goods in my stock; my belief is that it is mine—I have ties precisely like it—these other things I believe are mine—the marks have been taken off all but this one—this has my mark on it—they were all marked in a similar way to this—these other things, found in the bar at William Scaines's, I can recognise all of them as mine, but the marks are off all but this one—the marks have been removed from the others—this one has my private trade mark on it—this chain I believe to be my property; I lost one precisely like it—I had several of them—I lost some that night—I had them in stock previous to the robbery, and missed them the next morning before 5 o'clock—the swivels of these chains are all alike—I have seen a good many swivels, but none like these—this is not a common swivel, I think.
Cross-examined by MR. SHARPE. Q. Do you mean that you missed all these things the next morning, the 23rd? A. I missed all the articles I see here—it would be impossible to say how many different articles I lost; I lost a great many—this tie resembles other ties that I had—I had sold very few—I do not recollect selling one of these light ties; it would be impossible to swear I had not—I believe this black tie is mine—there is a greater difficulty in getting black goods to match than you are aware of—I have goods exactly like this.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How many chains did you lose? A. I cannot say; I know I lost ten, but I think I lost more than ten—they were new—I bought them in Sydney, at a sale, all having this particular swivel—I bought fifteen; I sold four or five in Sydney; I have not sold any here—the chains are plated, but I think you will find the swivels are gold—they were sold to me as gold—I bought a great many things there—I cannot tell whether there were other chains brought from Sydney—I have had these in my possession since 25th March, 1853—these chains correspond—I do not think you can see any difference in them; I could not—I cannot tell whether they are Birmingham manufacture—I bought them at an
auction mart in Sydney—these chains were not hanging in the window—I never show them; they were always in the cash box—one of these chains and a mourning ring were found on Henry Scaines, and one was found at William Scaines's—this found on Henry Scaines is like some of those I lost—I think I had six of this sort—I bought eight or nine in Sydney; I sold some there, but I have fold none here.
SAMUEL COPPIN . re-examined. I found this watch, which has not been identified, and this chain, in a drawer in the front room, on the first floor, at William Scaines's—this is the mourning ring which Henry Scaines was wearing. (William Scaines received a good character.)
TAYLOR— GUILTY. of Burglary.
SULLIVAN— GUILTY. of Burglary — Confined Twelve Months.
HENRY SCAINES— GUILTY. of Receiving. — Confined Twelve Months.
WILLIAM SCAINES— NOT GUILTY .
(Taylor was further charged with having been before convicted.)
JOHN PORTER . (Police sergeant, G 3). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction—(Read: "At this Court, Aug., 1848, John Fish was tried and convicted for stealing five sovereigns and one half sovereign, of Jane Fish, in her dwelling house, and ordered to be transported for ten years")—the prisoner is the man—he was tried in Nov. last for burglary, and since that he has had three months for being found in a dwelling house.
GUILTY.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH GROVES . I am servant to Mrs. Coate, No. 7, Burton Crescent On the morning after 3rd April I came down, and found the parlour window open, and some things had been taken out of the house—I had on the previous night fastened the doors and window—I missed, amongst other things, a flute and a case, which I had seen safe the night before.
SAMUEL COPPIN . (Police sergeant, P 15). On 8th May, I took the prisoner into custody—I found this flute and case standing on a table in his bar—I asked him how he accounted for this—he said he did not know anything about it.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did he say he did not know it was there? A. I believe he said afterwards he did not know how it came there—this was not in the common bar which was accessible to all, only to his own family; it was shut off from the public—I do not know whether this is an old flute; the gentleman valued it at 10l. I think—the key was given to me some days afterwards by the prosecutrix; it was not in the public bar—there is a little door which separates that from the public bar—it was in a place where the cupboard and the table were, it was entirely a private part of the establishment—it had nothing to do with the public—no person would go there, only the family—the prisoner owned the case—I asked him if he had the key, and he said, "No."
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
JAMES NIGHTINGALE . (Police sergeant, P 12). About 3 o'clock in the morning, on 1st June, I was on duty at Camber well; I met the prisoner carrying this bundle—I asked what he had got there—he said what he had got belonged to himself, or was his own—I looked and saw there were some shop marks on some of the things—I took him to Camberwell station, and asked him some questions—he said, "You have no occasion to ask me any more questions, I stole them, but you have got to find out where"—after I heard there had been a burglary, I took the prisoner there—I said, "We shall get to the house presently"—I then said, "That is the house"—he said, "Yes, it is."
Prisoner. I said a man gave me them to carry. Witness. No, you said you stole them.
ELIZABETH CROWE . I live at No. 13, Crosby Row, Walworth. On 31st May I went to bed about 12 o'clock, but I had gone out at 9 o'clock, after fastening my shop, I returned about 11 o'clock, but I went in by another door—I did not go into the shop—the next morning I was called up at a little after 7 o'clock—I found the skylight had been broken, and I missed this property—I have seen it since; it is mine—after I had gone to bed, I heard a noise in the night; it was like the falling of a chair—I found in the morning that there had been a set of steps under the skylight, and a chair put on the top of them—he must have got in by removing the skylight.
ALFRED SCHLENKER . I live at Walworth, nearly opposite the house of the prosecutrix. From the drawing room of my house I can see the skylight of her shop—I saw it at half past 9 o'clock that night—the skylight was then secure.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.
MESSRS. W. J. PAYNE. and SCOBLE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN NEWELL . (Police sergeant, R 59). I produce a copy of the Record of the prisoner's former conviction—(Read: "Central Criminal Court, June Session, 17 Victoria; Jane Price, Convicted of uttering a counterfeit sixpence; Confined nine months")—I was present—she is the person.
CAROLINE WARD . I am the wife of Robert Ward, of No. 43, Weymouth Street, New Kent Road. On Saturday, 11th May, about half past 3 o'clock, the prisoner came and asked for two ounces of butter, and a bundle of wood; they came to 2 3/4d., and she gave me a 4d. piece—I gave her the change, and put the 4d. piece behind the tea caddy, where there was no other—Edward Bayley came in and bought some meat, and I paid him the 4d. piece, and in consequence of something that passed I looked at it, and found that it was bad—I put it behind the tea caddy again, and it remained there till the morning of the 27th, when the prisoner came again about 11 o'clock for two ounces of butter and a bundle of wood—that came to 2d.—she gave me a 4d. piece; I found that it was bad—I recognised her, and said, "This is another bad one"—she said, "Pray forgive me, for the sake of my poor children"—I sent for a policeman, and gave her into custody, with the two 4d. pieces—she lives at No. 4, Weymouth Street.
Prisoner. I did not go to the shop before. Witness. I am sure you are the woman; I knew you before.
some meat—she paid me 4s. 4d.—I gave her the 4d. piece back, as it was bad, and she gave me another.
STEPHEN STANDRIDGE . (Policeman, P 5). I took the prisoner, and Mrs. Ward gave me the 4d. pieces—the prisoner said she did not know they were bad, and was never in the shop before in her life—6d. in halfpence was found on her, also two packets of sugar and tea and a half quartern loaf—I asked her where she got them—she refused to tell me.
Prisoner's Defence. I did not know they were bad.
GUILTY.*. Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. W. J. PAYNE. and SCOBLE. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH BAKER . I am the wife of Thomas Baker, of the Holly Branch beer house, York Road, Battersea. On 11th May, between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a pint of ale—it came to 3d.—he gave me a half crown—I gave him the change, and put it into the till, where there was only 2s.—nobody else was serving—after he left, I looked at it, and found that it was bad—no one had been to the till in the mean while—I gave it to the policeman that evening.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I ask you for a lodging? A. Yes—you stayed very nearly an hour—you were brought back in about an hour—you had agreed to come and have some coffee next morning—you wanted to lodge with me, but I refused—I sent a person to look after you.
THOMAS WHITINGS . I live in York Road, Battersea, and work at Price's candle factory. On Monday evening, 11th May, about a quarter past 6 o'clock, I saw the prisoner at the Holly Branch, and had some drink with him—I afterwards went with him to the Nag's Head, in the York Road—he showed me a bad half crown, and said, "We will go and get a pot of beer"—I said, "Not with that I will not, because it is not good money"—he took it from me, put it into his pocket, called for a pot of beer, and paid for it with a good shilling—as we stood at the bar, I told him that the best thing he could do was to have the half crown proved by Miss Pinnock, the landlord's daughter; she told him that it was bad, and I told him that the best thing he could do was to take it to where he had it—he said, "Never mind, I will shove it off"—he asked me if I knew a man named Fish; I said, "Yes"—he is a labouring man at Battersea—I saw him yesterday morning—the prisoner said that he came from Windsor—the half crown was a smooth thin one.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you take it up, and say that it was good enough, for it rung well? A. No, I did not persuade you that it was good, and then betray you.
WILLIAM BLAKE . I am a chandler, of York Road, Battersea. On Monday, 11th May, between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for an ounce of tobacco; it came to 3d.—he gave me a half crown—I gave him 2s. 3d. change—he then asked for a rasher of bacon and two eggs—they came, I think, to 6d.—I put the half crown into the till—I noticed that it was very smooth—while the prisoner was there, another customer came in for change for a half crown—that was a very different one—I kept it till last week, when it was paid away by another party in mistake—I can swear that this is the one he gave me—I put it into a carraway seed drawer, and afterwards marked it, and gave it to Dudley.
Prisoner. You put the two half crowns into the till together. Witness.
I did not; I put your's in first—they were together in the till—your's was very old and worn, and the second was a new one—you asked me where you could get a bed, and I recommended you to the Feathers, two or three doors off, and not to the Jolly Gardeners—you told me that you had a wife and family at Windsor, and came up to look for employment.
ALBERT JOHN SEYMOUR . (Policeman, B 135). I received information from Whitings, in consequence of which I found the prisoner having his supper at the Jolly Gardeners, in the York Head—I told him that he had been passing bad money—he denied it—I asked him if he had any bad money about him; he said that he had not—I searched him, and found on him 5s. in silver and 5d. in copper, all good—I asked him what he had done with the bad half crown that he had in the York Road; he said that he threw it over the creek bridge.
Prisoner's Defence. I left home five weeks ago, and came to Covent Garden, but could not get employment; I had a half sovereign, which I changed, and if I had any money that is how I got it; I thought this was a bad one, but this man persuaded me that it was good, as it rang well; it is not feasible that I should have told them where I came from if I had been passing bad money.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. W. J. PAYNE. and SCOBLE. conducted the Prosecution.
MARY WOODS . I am the wife of John Woods, of the Black Mare public house, Borough. On Sunday, 3rd May, about 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a pint of 4d. ale and a screw—he tendered a florin—I detained it, and placed it in my pocket, separate from other coin—I gave it next morning to my husband, and afterwards to Clark, the policeman—on Monday, 4th May, the prisoner came again for a pint of porter, and tendered me another florin—I told him that it was bad, and that he had been there before—he said that I must be mistaken—I took the other florin from my pocket, and compared them—I called my husband, gave him the two florins, and he gave the prisoner into custody—the prisoner has been at our house on several occasions, and in the course of the previous week had on two occasions received money for bad shillings, but I cannot give the dates—I refused two shillings which he offered me, and warned him not to come again.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MR. W. J. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN HOLLINGS . I am a pork butcher, of White Street, Southwark. I know the prisoner—on 11th May he came to my house, and made a purchase amounting to 3 1/2 d.—he gave me a shilling; I gave him change, and
put the shilling into the till—there was no other shilling there—I afterwards found it was bad, and locked it up in my desk—on the following Saturday, the 16th, he came again, and had 3 lbs. of beef, which came to 1s. 7 1/2 d.—he gave me a florin, and I gave him 4 1/2 d. out—my daughter said something to me; I looked at the florin, and found that it waft bad—I went after the prisoner, brought him back, and told him that he had given me bad money—he abused me very much, said that it was no such thing, and tried to get away—I told him that I had had a bad shilling from him before—he said that it was no such thing—I gave him into custody, with the shilling and the florin—I am sure he is the man.
Prisoner. When I came into your shop on the Monday, I told you that the meat was bad. Witness. You did say so—I saw you in my shop on the Saturday before, but do not remember what you had, as I did not take your money.
MARTHA MORRIS HOLLINGS . I am a daughter of the last witness, and am fifteen years of age. On 11th May I saw the prisoner in the shop, and after he had gone, my father said something to me—on the following Saturday, 16th May, he came again, bought something, and paid for it—after he had left the shop. I spoke to my father, and he went after the prisoner, and brought him back, having looked at the 2s. piece which the prisoner had given him—he then gave the prisoner into custody.
DENNIS CLARK . (Policeman, M 108). I took the prisoner from Mr. Hollings on 16th May and received this florin and shilling (produced)—he was very violent, and I was obliged to call the assistance of three other constables to convey him to the station.
Prisoner's Defence. I took the florin of a countryman with a hay cart and gave the money to my wife, with, a few halfpence, and between 10 and 11 o'clock she gave me the money to get something for dinner; as to giving a bad shilling to anybody, I am positive I had not got one; I have lived there eight years, and nobody can give me a bad character.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. W. J. PAYNE. and SCOBLE. conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH SCOTT . I am the sister of George Scott, who keeps the General Abercrombie Tavern, Southward On Saturday, 3rd May, the prisoner Brown came, with another woman not in custody, for half a quartern of gin—the one not in custody gave me a half crown, and I gave her 2s. 3 3/4 d. change—she then asked me to give her two sixpences for a shilling, because she wanted to give Brown 6d.; I gave them to her, and put the shilling into the till, where there was no other shilling—my attention was afterwards called to it, and I found it to be bad—I gave it to my brother.
GEORGE SCOTT . I am the landlord of the General Abercrombie. My. sister gave me a bad shilling, and in consequence of what she said, I saw a good shilling marked, and placed it on a shelf at the back of the bar, on Monday, 1st June, on which day the prisoners came, and Reeves asked for a quartern of gin and a pot of porter; after I had drawn the porter, she begged my pardon, and wanted a pint—they brought a bottle and a mug—Reeves tendered me a good half crown, and I gave her two old sixpences, the marked shilling, which my sister brought from the other side of the bar on purpose, and a halfpenny—I purposely turned round, and on turning round again, I saw a counterfeit shilling of George IV. lying on the counter—Reeves
said, "I am glad you gave me some small change," and was going to add more, but I did not give her time—as she pushed the shilling towards me I seized her hand, expecting to find my good shilling in it, but instead of that, found a counterfeit florin and a halfpenny—a counterfeit shilling was lying within an inch of where the other shilling had been; it had been substituted for the marked shilling—I gave them into custody, with the bad florin and shilling, and the one which was taken on the previous Saturday—a policeman came, and they then poured the gin into the beer, and drank it, saying that they supposed they should not get any more for some time to come—I rather think the policeman told them that they had better drink it, as they would get no more.
Reeves. Q. Did I give you any bad money? A. You were together; I cannot say which of you did it—it was you who pushed the bad shilling towards me.
WILLIAM HENRY HOLLIDAY . I live in Green Street, Blackfriars Road. On Monday, 1st June, I was in the General Abercrombie, between 2 and 3 o'clock, and saw the prisoners there—there was a little confusion, and they said that the prisoners had been passing bad coin—I saw Brown put her hand to her mouth, and saw either a shilling or sixpence in her hand, and after that her hand was empty—a policeman came in, and the prisoners were given in charge—I saw them drink the beer—I kept my eye on Brown, and followed her to the station, but did not see her spit anything out, or drop anything.
(Reeves produced a written defence, stating that she received the florin from Mr. Folkard, a pawnbroker, in the Blackfriars Road, and told the inspector so.)
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months each.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. O'CONNELL. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN JOHNSON . I live at No. 6, Smith's Place, Devonshire Street, Kennington, and am a labourer. The prisoner keeps pigeons, and on Sunday night he knocked one down with a prop, about half past 8 o'clock, and threw it into the pigeon house—his mother came into ray room crying—I married her daughter, and am the prisoner's brother-in-law—I went out to the prisoner, and did rather more than I ought to do; he was on a ladder, swinging by a rope, and I pulled the ladder from underneath him, and pulled him down on his back—he was from three to four feet from the ground, and as he laid on his back I struck him several times, and walked in doors—he said nothing to me then, but afterwards called me very bad names—he remained in the yard, and dared me to come out again; I went out, struck him, and either made his nose bleed or cut his lip, the blood was running from him, and as I turned round to go in again, he stabbed me on the left side, under the arm—I got a neighbour to take me to a doctor, who strapped it up, and persuaded me to go to Guy's Hospital directly, where I remained a month within three days—I lost much blood.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you kneel on me? A. Yes, I did, because you struck me very hard—I pulled the ladder away, and then held you down—I was very angry with you, and I might have threatened to kill you, I cannot say—I did say, "I will beat your brains out if you offer to kick me"—you were kicking and struggling on the ground.
COURT. Q. How old are you? A. Thirty-two—this was after tea, at half past 8 o'clock—I had been lying down, and had just got up—I might have had a pot of beer at 1 o'clock, but none after that—I was not the worse for liquor.
ALFRED ANSON . (Policeman, L 86). On Tuesday morning, 19th May, I took the prisoner—I told him I wanted him to come to the station with me for stabbing Johnson—he said, "Very well, I will comb my hair first, and come down to the station"—I asked him how he came to do it—he said that Johnson knelt on him, and that was the reason—I asked him what he had done with the knife—he said that his mother had got it in her pocket—I got this knife (produced) from his mother, showed it to the prisoner, and he said, "Yes, that is the knife."
GEORGE WILLIAMSON DANIEL . I am house surgeon to Guy's Hospital Johnson was brought there on Sunday night, 17th May, and I found a punctured wound on his left side, just below the arm pit—this knife would have made it—I probed it with my finger, and it went about three inches deep—I considered it dangerous, and he continued a patient about a month—it glanced off the ribs, which prevented it entering the chest—it is quite well now.
Prisoner's Defence. Mr. Johnson is no relation to me; he is not married to my sister, he is only living with her; he beat me about shamefully.
GUILTY. of unlawfully wounding, under aggravated circumstances—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined One Month.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, JULY. 6TH., 1857.