CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
FINNIS, MAYOR. FIFTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, March 2nd, 1857.
PRESENT—Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. RECORDER.; Sir ROBERT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
The prosecutor did not appear.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS TOMKINS . (a prisoner). I was tried and convicted at the last session of stealing this heifer—I do not know how I originally became possessed of that heifer—I saw it at Kingston on Wednesday, 12th Nov., about 10 o'clock in the morning, in the meadow, along with the other beasts—Mr. Beauchamp let me into the meadow—I first saw the other beasts that the heifer was with, in the meadow; I saw them all in the meadow together that morning—I recollect seeing Mr. Beauchamp on the 13th; we were then getting them out of the field to take them to the fair—that was on the Thursday; I was acting for Missenden—I saw Missenden that Wednesday morning, he was along with me; there were five or six of us together—I had come from Kingsbury on the Tuesday morning, the 11th—I went to meet some beasts at the Harrow station; they were Missenden's beasts—I did not see Missenden on the Tuesday; he sent his man down to me from London to tell me to go to Harrow to meet the beasts; that was a drover of his, Joseph Hosier—on the Tuesday I drove those beasts from the Harrow Station to Hampton Wick—a gentleman they called Mr. Beauchamp took them away from me on the bridge, some of them; there were
four more persons besides me with them—I expect he put them into the field; they were there on the Wednesday morning when I went there—to my knowledge that was the first time I saw that heifer—I do not believe I ever saw it before, I do not recollect; it might have been among the rest, without my noticing it—I saw Missenden on the morning of the fair, and the beasts were driven to the fair—the heifer was left in the field, and Missenden said, he should not take it into the fair, because it had had the bull, and was not fit to go into the fair; and the bull, he said, was not trimmed, and he should not have that in—the beasts that were taken to the fair, and were unsold, were brought back in the evening, and put into the field again, where the heifer and the bull were—they went out again next morning, the heifer and the bull were still left—the beasts were all sold on the second day—the bull and heifer were still left there—I did not hear any conversation between Missenden and Beauchamp about the bull and heifer being left—I left Kingston after the fair—I believe Missenden left also—I saw Missenden again about a fortnight afterwards; nothing was then said about the beasts; it was about a week after that that he spoke about the bull and heifer, he then ordered me to fetch them away and sell them—I then went down to Mr. Beauchamp, and got them away—it was in Smithfield that I saw Missenden—he said, "I think you had better go down to Kingston, and get the bull and heifer, and sell them, for it has been very sharp weather, and they will want a bit of hay; they will get worse if they lay there any longer, perhaps"—I said, "Very well," and I went and did it—he did not say anything further; he did not say anything about what I was to do with the money; he owed me some money, and he said I was to see him after they were sold, and then we would square up our accounts—I do not know what it was that he owed me; it was for work done for him, and keep and money I had paid his men, and one thing or another—there was an account between us—I did get both the bull and heifer, and sold them; I did not see Missenden afterwards until I saw him at Edgware after I was in custody.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where did you live? A. At Kingsbury—I know Mr. Gibson, the prosecutor—I believe he lives at Greenford, he told me so; I do not know where he lives, except from what he told me—Greenford is about three and a half or four miles from my place—I am a drover; I have got a bit of land—I know Mr. Kench, the owner of the bull; he lives at Woodcock-hill farm, in Harrow parish, about two and a half miles from where I live—I live four miles from Harrow station—it was on the Tuesday morning that I went to the Harrow station with the beasts—I received thirty-four beasts at the Harrow station; they were heifers and bullocks; some lad of Missenden's was there with them, I do not know his name—(looking at a boy named Hickmott) that is the boy—I counted them—they were to be driven to my field—I am sure there were thirty—four—I do not know whether the boy counted them or not—I did—he and I did not have any conversation about the number; that was the only number I received on the Saturday—a second lot came in the night—they were bullocks and heifers, I believe; there were fifty of them on the Sunday morning when I went into the field—I do not know how many there were put in my field, because I was abed when they came; I only know that I found fifty on the Sunday morning—I had nobody up to receive them, they knew where the field was—I do not know that I was responsible to Missenden for them—I was not up when that second lot arrived; I suppose it was about 11 o'clock—I did not go with the boy to the field next morning—a
person named Goodchild helped me to drive the first lot, and helped me to put them into the field—the two lots were not put into the same field—I believe the second lot was put into the field where I counted the fifty next morning—the first lot arrived at Harrow station about 2 o'clock—they got to my place about 4 o'clock, I believe—I was abed when the second lot arrived; I believe it was about 11 o'clock when they called up at my window—I went into the field next morning where the fifty beasts were, but the boy never went with me, I will swear that—the boy was not in the field with me—I did not ask the boy next day how many he had brought—James Barton helped bring the second lot, I believe—I am sure the boy did not say to me, "Why, here are fifty, and only forty-nine are my master's; that bull is not ours"—I believe that was the only bull among that lot—I saw the heifer at Kingston, but I did not know but it belonged to Missenden—I know the description of heifer—I cannot undertake to say whether she was among the fifty that morning; I will not say one way or the other—there were Borne of all sorts among the fifty—I think there were some half—bred heifers—the first I saw of the heifer was at Kingston—Barton, and Hosier, and Mark Richardson drove one lot; Barton and Hosier drove the fifty, among which was the bull; Mark Richardson drove the thirty-four—I went to the Harrow station, to meet his man with some more; that was on the Tuesday—I do not know what number I received on the Tuesday—there were some bullocks and some heifers, some of all sorts—we took them straight from the station to Kingston; the other two lots had started from my place at 8 o'clock, and this lot did not arrive from the Harrow station till 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon—the first lot started between 7 and 8 o'clock, and the other about 8 o'clock or a little after—I saw them; they were counted; I counted thirty—four in one lot, and fifty in another, and then I went to the station for the others—I had not seen Missenden since the Friday before—he had made arrangements that whatever number of cattle there was, they should stop at my place, and that I was to assist in driving them to the fair——I arrived at Kingston on the Tuesday night—there were three lots put into Mr. Beauchamp's field—the two lots that started from my place were put into the same field—there were some cattle of Mr. Beauchamp's in the field, I believe, I do not know how many there were of them j the rest were taken to a field, some of them were bulls—the bulls were separated from the rest—we divided them on Kingston bridge—I separated all the bulls that were in that lot—we took them on, I helped to drive them; there was myself and three or four more—Mr. Beauchamp took the oxen and heifers away from me, and drove them into his field, I suppose—I do not know what he did with them, they were there in the morning—that was on the Tuesday—I did not see Missenden on the Wednesday—I was trimming bulls on the Wednesday—I went to Mr. Beauchamp's on the Wednesday, to see if there was a dead one among them, or anything the matter—Mr. Beauchamp and I had no conversation about the number—I mean to say, that although I was driving Mr. Missenden's cattle, I did not know what the exact number was, because his own men came up with them by rail; they knew the number, I did not—I saw Mr. Beauchamp on the Thursday morning in the field, between 7 and 8 o'clock—I saw Missenden—that was before the cattle were driven out of the field—he had got more men there to attend to the bulls; there were eleven or twelve men altogether.
Q. Do yon mean to say that all the cattle were driven out of the field with the exception of the bull and heifer? A. There were some left of Mr.
Beauchamp's, and somebody else's, I do not know what number—I assisted in driving them out, I helped to drive a lot of heifers, I believe there were fifty-four of them; I helped to drive them with two more men and a boy—I remained at Kingston fair during the Thursday and Friday—I returned home on Saturday—I was paid a little money in Kingston fair, by Missenden, it was 2l.; that was for what I had paid away for his men, and one thing or another; no, it was 4l—he paid me that on the second day of the fair, nobody was present—he had owed me money for three months before then—the 4l. did not pay me all that he owed me; I do not know how much was left, for I never reckoned it up—perhaps it might have been 10l., or 20l—it was not so much as 30l., and I do not think it was 20l.; but I am not sure, I cannot say what it was—I had an account written down on paper; I have not got that with me, I have lost it, I lost it coming home from Kingston—I brought it to Kingston with me; I did not look at it there—I know I had it, because I had pulled it out in the fair once, and had it in my hand—when Missenden gave me the 4l., I did not show him the document, and say, "Why, you owe me a great deal more than that;" he gave me the 4l., and I thought it was on account, of course—some gentleman was about buying some beasts of him, and he left me—I lost the book on my way home—I had no conversation with Mr. Beauchamp about selling either the bull or the heifer—when I fetched it away I had; I did not do so after the fair and before I left, for I never saw Beauchamp after the fair—I did not ask Mr. Beauchamp more than once to buy the bull or heifer—I will swear that—I sold the heifer to Mr. Vickers, he is a farmer, living near me—it was in Smithfield that Mr. Missenden told me to go down and fetch the bull and heifer; Joseph Barton was present, nobody else; it was against his sheep pens, where he stands, in Smithfield—I was in the dock on the last occasion—I heard Barton give evidence—I believe he was close to me at the time—Missenden said I was to fetch them away and sell them, and after I had sold them, I was to see him and square our accounts—I believe they were the exact words—I believe Barton heard that—it was about ten days after that that I sold the heifer—I went down to Kingston that same night, and took the heifer and bull away next day; the heifer was at home in my field for that ten days—I sold the bull on the Tuesday night to Mr. Fairey, the same day that I took it away from Kingston—Mr. Fairey paid me 9l. for it—I did not send an account of it to Missenden, because I had not then sold the heifer—I did not tell Fairey to whom the bull belonged, I said nothing about it—I did not tell Fairey that I had bought the bull at Hendon, I will swear that—ten days elapsed before I disposed of the heifer, it was in my field during that time, not among other cattle—I did not tell Mr. Fairey that I had brought the bull from Hendon, I told him I had brought it to sell, that was all—I sold the heifer to Mr. Vickers—I got no money from him.
Q. That went to pay an account that you owed him? A. He never said anything to me about what I owed him when I sold him the heifer; he never said anything to me about its going towards my account—I did not ask him for the money, because I had got some sheep in the road, and I did not stop to take the sheep into the field—he was to give me 8l. for it—I should have asked him for the money two or three days afterwards, when I saw him—I did owe him some money, I do not know exactly how much—it was two days after I had sold the heifer to Mr. Vickers that I was taken up—while I was before the Magistrate, I believe the heifer was brought there to be identified—I did not say when I was apprehended, that I had sent
the bull down into the country—I told Missenden's man I had taken it away, I did not say where I had taken it to—I did not say I had sent it down into the country to Missenden—I had not time to account with Missenden for the money for the bull or the heifer.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. What did you tell the officer when you were apprehended)? A. I told him that I was employed by Missenden to sell them, and I had sold them—I went to Harrow by Missenden's directions to meet these cattle; there were other men there belonging to Missenden—I remained with these cattle until they were delivered at Kingston—Barton was called on the last occasion, I do not think he was called for the prosecution—Hicktmott is a boy working for Missenden—I believe he was called by Missenden at the last trial, and Hosier also—I did ask Mr. Beauchamp to buy the heifer, when I fetched it away—I was taken into custody on the Sunday, I saw Missenden on the Monday morning.
WILLIAM GIBSON . I am a farmer, and reside at Sudbury. I had a heifer at Mr. Wilson's, at Greenford, and saw it there on 9th Nov.—I missed it on the 11th—I did not see it again until Sunday, 21st Dec; it was then in Mr. Vickers's field—that was the day Tomkins was apprehended—that was my heifer—I saw Tomkins, and bad some communication with him—I went down to Missenden's place on Saturday, the 19th, with Mr. Kench, to whom the bull belonged—I had previously seen him on the Friday in Smithfield; I then said to him, "Did you leave a bull and heifer at Hampton paddock?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "It is my heifer, not the least doubt"—he said, "What can you tell it by?"—I said, "There is a man in the market here now that has seen them there"—I went and fetched the man to him, and said, "That is the man that told me about my heifer being in Hampton paddock"—it was Mr. Monk's man; he was not called last time; I forget his name; he is. here now—he said, "You keep quiet till Monday, and I will see about it"—I then went and told Mr. Kench—I had some conversation with him, and next morning we went down to Mr. Missenden's, at Water Eaton; we saw him, and I said to him, "I seem. very uneasy about this heifer Mr. Missenden"—he said, "I promised to meet you on Monday, but I cannot, for I have got to go to Newport Pagnel fair;" and he begged of us to leave it over till Tuesday; he said, "Leave it by, I can't say where it is"—I said, "You know where it is now"—he said, "I can't tell you where it is now, but you shall have your bull and heifer at Harrow station, between 9 and 10 o'clock, on Tuesday morning"—I said to Mr. Kench, "I am not very easy about them; I think Mr. Missenden knows a great deal more about this"—I said that in Missenden's hearing—Mr. Kench said we had better go home, and we did; and as soon as I had got home, a person came and told me where the heifer was—I went to Kingsbury, and saw it on the Sunday—on Monday I went down again, and saw Missenden; I said, "Halloo! who would have thought of seeing you here?"—he found out that the policeman was there, and said, "I suppose you mean about this heifer then; I don't know anything of it I remained there with him all that night, but he did not say anything else—he did not give me any account whatever as to how he had become possessed of the animals—we then brought him to Edgware, and there he saw Tomkins—he said to him, "Tom, what have you done with the bull?—Tomkins said, "What did you tell me to do with it?"—he said, "What did I?"—Tomkins said, "Did you not tell me to take it to the Ram yard, Smithfield, to Bill Fairey's, and have it killed?"—he said, "I don't know anything of it"—they then shut the door, and would not allow him to say any more; the policeman was present—I believe I had told the prisoner on
the Sunday that I had found the heifer at Mr. Vickers's—I do not recollect what he said upon that—he did not seem particularly surprised about it.
COURT. Q. Did he say at any time where he believed he had bought the heifer? A. At one time he said he fancied he had bought it of Shadrach Tomkins; he had bought some heifers, but he said all Shadrach Tomkins's heifers were marked, and it could not be one of those; they were half bred heifers, and this was a half bred heifer.
WILLIAM GIBSON . Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. I believe, on the same day that you found your heifer, you saw Tomkins? A. Yes, on the Sunday morning—Mr. Kench was with me; he said to Tomkins, "Gibson has found his heifer, and where is the bull?"—Tomkins replied, "I had the heifer, and the bull has gone down by Missenden's man"—he afterwards said, "I shan't say any more, and you can't make me"—he was then taken into custody—I did not know that Tomkins had sold the bull to Fairey until after Missenden was in custody—it had not been arranged with the policeman that Missenden should put the questions he did to Tomkins About the bull.
NATHANIEL KINCH . I went down with Mr. Gibson on the Saturday; that was the first time I saw Missenden with reference to this matter—I have heard the statement Mr. Gibson has made—it is correct as to the meaning, but not exactly the same words—Missenden was not at home when we went, we waited till he came home; we then told him that we had come to see about a bull and a heifer—I understood from Mr. Gibson that they were in Kingston paddock—he said that it was a most singular thing, but he had not sold a bull since Kingston fair, and sometimes he had sold eight, or ten, or twenty in that time—he also told us that the bull and the heifer should be at the Harrow station on the Tuesday—I do not now recollect anything which was said on the Sunday which Mr. Gibson has not told you.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear Mr. Gibson give any description of the heifer to Missenden? A. Yes; he described it as a half bred heifer, with a speckled face—after that I heard Missenden say that he had bought some half bred heifers of a man named Shadrach Tomkins, and he fancied he might have bought it among them—I asked him if they were marked—he said, "No"——I said, "This heifer was not marked"—he said, "No"—they had not all a private mark; this heifer had a mark by which I should know her again, because it was a remarkable one.
COURT. Q. Do you mean that you asked Missenden whether this heifer was marked, and he said "No?" A. Yes.
JOHN BEAUCHAMP . I am a dairyman of Hampton Wick; I let out my field to persons having cattle for the fair. In November last Missenden came and asked if I had got some grass to let; he looked at it, took it, and said that he was going to turn some cattle in to grass for the fair—he was to pay 6l.; he paid me 1l. deposit, and the remainder when he took the things out—I cannot say how many he turned in, as it is so long ago; but not so many as he had agreed—I afterwards saw Tomkins driving some bulls and heifers—I separated them, and put the heifers on my land—Mr. Gibson's heifer was not among them—some bulls came with the heifers, but I cannot say whether this particular bull came—I recollect the bull and
heifer which were left, not taken into the fair—I cannot tell when the bull came—I recollect the morning of the fair; I went to open the gate to let the things out, and Missenden said that he should not take the heifer out, because she had taken the bull the night before, and was not fit to go—a bull was also left; that was the same bull which three weeks afterwards was taken away by Tomkins—he gave no reason why he left the bull; he never said a word about it—the bull and heifer having been left at my place, I saw some of the cattle which were not sold, brought hack in the evening—they were taken out again on the next morning, but the bull and heifer were left in my field still—on 14th Nov., the second day of the fair, I saw John Smith, and took him down from his own house, when I was going into the field—we saw Missenden there, but what we said was not in his hearing, as there are eighty-six acres of land there; I just got into the field, and said, "There is Mr. Missenden, he will tell you all about it," and then walked away, and left them talking together—after Smith went away, I went and looked at the cattle, and said to Missenden, if he had anything left, to put them in the field; and when I went over to the fair, Missenden said, "What I have left I will pay you 18d. per head per week for; and whatever I put in the field, I will send one of my men or a note"—the same bull and heifer were left there three weeks and a half; Tomkins and another man then came for them, and Tomkins paid me 10s. 6d., which was right, and I receipted the bill in pencil, which is the bill found on Tomkins.
COURT. to THOMAS TOMKINS. Q. When you sent away the bull and heifer from Mr. Beauchamp's, was anybody with you? A. James Barton, who was examined here last time.
JOHN BEAUCHAMP . Cross-examined Q. Do you know the man's name? A. I do not—throughout the whole of this transaction Missenden never said anything about the bull—when he said that the heifer had had the bull, he was about twenty yards from the heifer, or perhaps fifty—she was grazing by herself, but other cows were in the field; she was a half bred heifer—there were other half bred heifers among Mr. Missenden's cattle—Tomkins said, two or three times, before he came out of the meadow gate, when he came to fetch them, "Why do you not buy the heifer?" and he also said so when he got through Kingston gate—I said, "I do not want"—he asked me twice what I thought the bull was worth, and I said, "About 9l. "—I had never had dealings with Missenden before—he engaged to pay me a certain sum for the grass, and he did pay it.
COURT. Q. Could you see that the heifer had had the bull? A. Yes.
JOHN CLOWES SMITH . I was at Kingston on the second day of the fair, the 14th—Beauchamp called on me, and I went down to the field with him—he first pointed out the heifer which was for sale, and then pointed out Missenden, and said to him, "Here is Mr. Smith, and he will buy the heifer"—I asked Missenden the price; he said, "11l.;" I said, "Oh, no; I cannot think of giving that price;" he said that he could not take less, and I walked out again.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there other cattle in the field? A. Yes; a good many—I was 300 yards from the heifer—I did not draw his attention to this particular heifer; nothing was said but, "the heifer"—Missenden and another man were driving some other beasts out of the field, and there were other beasts in the field; I do not know whether they were heifers or what—the bull might have been there, but I did not see him to my knowledge.
(The prisoner received an excellent character.)
NOT GUILTY .
JOHN HOPKINS . I am apprentice to Mr. Laxton, of Spring-street, Paddington. On 21st Jan., the prisoner called at the shop for 2l. 0s. 6d., which was paid him, and he gave this receipt: "Received of Mr. Laxton, 2l. 0s. 6d., for value received. James Berry. Jan. 21, 1857."
JOHN LYON . I have been in partnership with Rees Perry Napoleon Price since 2nd June last; previous to which 2l. 0s. 6d. was due to him. The prisoner was engaged in Dec. last, as traveller and warehouseman—I carry on the City portion of the business, and Mr. Price the West End—I gave the prisoner instructions to bring all money at once to me, immediately he received it—he knew nothing about what moneys belonged to the firm before I joined it—he produced an order from Mr. Laxton, and I said, "Have you got his money?"—he said, "No, I did not know there was anything due"—I said, "If you will refer to the paper I gave you, you will see that there is 2l. 0s. 6d. due"—he said, "I will call for it"—he has never accounted to me for it, and I was not aware that he had received it till he was before the Lord Mayor, on another charge—he left our service; I had engaged him for a month, but finding he was doing so little, I advised him to get something better—his salary was paid him when he left, and when the orders were paid he was to receive 2 1/2 percent., but nothing was due to him.
Prisoner's Defence. With regard to the embezzlement, I have a set off due to me for commission on goods sold, and the prosecutors have a letter of guarantee for 100l. from my father.
Prisoner. I made an application to you for a sovereign commission on the night when I was supposed to be discharged. Witness. You did not.
GUILTY. Aged 29. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Twelve Months.
(There were two other indictments against the prisoner).
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Eighteen Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.
EDWARD JOHN CORN . I am a bootmaker, of Constitution—road, Gray's Inn—road. On Saturday, 7th Feb., I went to bed at 12 o'clock, having shut up my shop—the fan light was safe—I was called up between 7 and 8 o'clock, and found the fan light broken—I missed a boot which had hung close to the fan light, and which could be reached through it by means of a stick and hook, which have been shown to me by the constable—the shop
forms part of the house—this is the boot, it is my property, and this is the fellow to it (produced).
JOHN LOTT . (policeman, G 144). On the morning of 8th Feb., I was on duty in Gray's Inn-road, in plain clothes, and about 20 minutes to 6 o'clock saw the prisoners outside the prosecutor's shop—I watched them till about half past 6 o'clock, and then asked them what they were doing there; they both said that they were waiting for a man coming from the railway; another policeman came up, and we took them both—I found on Smith the boot produced, he said that he found it at the station; I found on Harrison this treacle plaster—I went to the fanlight and found it broken, and dirtied with treacle plaster, which is used to prevent the glass from falling and making a noise—at a quarter before 6 o'clock Harrison had this stick, with this hook (produced) attached to it; but when I took him the hook was in his pocket.
Harrison. It was past 6 o'clock when I first saw the officer; a milk man can say the same thing. Witness. I am sure it was only half past 5 o'clock, and that the window must have been broken before, a quarter to 6 o'clock.
Smith's Defence. I picked the boot up, and was looking round to see if I could see any more.
HARRISON— GUILTY . Aged 19.
SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 19.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury.
Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Monday, March 2nd, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. WIRE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fourth Jury.
MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution,
LEONARD LAIDMAN . I live at No. 100, Chancery-lane. On 13th Jan. the prisoner Spurgeon called on me, and asked me if I knew Mr. Woodmass—I said, "Yes"—he said that he was very ill, and he had come into some property under a will, some thousands of pounds, and that he was about to raise money on it in some Insurance-office, and had been doing some business for Mr. Emas, I think he said in a Chancery suit, who had given him this promissory note (produced)—it is for 24l., and is drawn by Thomas Henry Emas—he said that Woodmass being very ill, he required a little money for present use, he being in a very bad state, wholly out of order, would I advance 30s. on it merely for a temporary purpose—he said Mr. Emas did not wish the bill to be discounted, and, as Woodmass owed me a little money, he wished me to take that and the 30s. from the note when it became due—I said, "The better plan will be for you to get from Woodmass a note to that effect, stating what he really wants, and call on me to-morrow"—he went away, and took the note with him—on the morrow Spurgeon came again, about 12 o'clock—he said that he had left me a note in the morning, which I had not received, but I looked about, and saw it lying on the desk—I opened it in his presence, and said, "Here it is then"—I read a portion of it—he said that was his note, and he then handed me this memorandum—I said to him, "Where is Woodmass?"—he
did not answer—I said again, "Is he at Islington now?" as I knew he did live there—he said, "No, he is staying at a coffee house"—I know Mr. Emas's writing, and it occurred to me that this note was not his writing—this memorandum is signed by Woodmass—I desired my son to give him 30s., and he gave him a sovereign and a half sovereign—the prisoners were taken between 4 and 5 o'clock on the same afternoon.
Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Did not Spurgeon say that the memorandum was his own writing, except Woodmass's signature? A. Yes—Woodmass was by at the time; he made no reply—the policeman put the question about the promissory note, and Spurgeon said that the body of it was Woodmass's writing—when Spurgeon came to me there was no hesitation about his manner—he put the case straightforward—he said that he would see Woodmass, who was very ill, and was staying at a coffee house—he said it was under a will that this property was coming to him—I do not recollect that he mentioned Mr. Nicholl's name—Spurgeon had a sovereign when he was at the station; it was the one which my son handed to him—I said to Spurgeon, "What have you done with the money?"—he said, "I have given Woodmass a part, and spent something for him besides"—I said, "Where is the remainder?"—he said, "I have got a part of it"—I said, "What have you got?" and he produced a sovereign, and offered it to the policeman—he said he had been laying out some money for Woodmass for necessaries—I do not believe that I told him that I knew Mr. Emas, but they both knew that I knew him—I did not, in conversation with Spurgeon, say that I knew Mr. Emas, and that he had left Nelson and Guyer's—he mentioned it himself—I knew where he was.
Woodmass. Q. When the note was given to you, was it not stated that it was not to be negotiated? A. Yes, that it was not to be discounted, and it was stated that I was to deduct a former sum due to me, and the 30s., when the note was due—I have no recollection of its being stated that, if the money was not paid before it came to maturity, then I might deduct what I advanced, and what was due to me—I verily believe that Spurgeon stated that the note was in your writing—it was shown to him—I have seen your writing, and I believe the signature to the memorandum to be yours.
COURT. Q. Have you any opinion that the writing of the note is Woodmass's? A. I believe it is—I have had his writing before to-day—I have seen him write.
Woodmass. Q. When? A. When I lent you some money for your employer, over the water, Mr. George Homer.
THOMAS HENRY EMAS . I have known Woodmass for twenty or twenty-five years—I know nothing of Spurgeon; I never saw him—this note is not my writing, nor is the signature—I know the writing of Woodmass; the body of this note is his writing; I have not the slightest doubt of it—I do not know the writing of the body of this memorandum, but the signature, I have no doubt, is Woodmass's—I never authorised any one to sign this note for me.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you sign your notes at all in this way? A. No—none of this note is my writing—Woodmass has copied letters for me—I do not think he ever wrote my name—I believe the body of this note is his writing, and I am of opinion the signature is his also, though it is disguised.
Woodmass. Q. How many times have you seen me write your name? A. I cannot tell; you have copied a great many letters for me—I cannot
swear that this is your signature to this note, but I believe it—it is not at all like my own.
COURT. Q. Did you ever give him a promissory note in your life? A. No.
CHARLES SALTER . (police sergeant, G 32). I took the prisoners—they were both lodging in one lodging house, not a coffee shop—I told them the charge—Spurgeon said that what he had done, he had done for Woodmass—Woodmass was by at the time, and he said he knew nothing about it—I took them to the station, and found on Spurgeon a sovereign and 2d., which he said was part of the money he had from the prosecutor—he said he had given Woodmass 7s. or 8s. of the money—I showed Spurgeon the promissory note, and asked him whose writing it was—he said it was Woodmass's—Woodmass was present; he made no reply.
Cross-examined. Q. How long did you ascertain that Spurgeon had been lodging at that house? A. About six weeks, and Woodmass since April—he was known there by the name of Herbert—I told them the charge—Spurgeon said that what he had done, he had done for Woodmass; Wood—mass said that he knew nothing about the forgery—I do not remember that Spurgeon asked if the note was a forgery.
Woodmass. Q. Do you say that Spurgeon Raid the writing of the note was mine? A. No; the signature on the back of it—I asked whose signature the endorsement was, and he said it was Woodmass's—this conversation took place in the station house—you appeared to be very ill.
(Note read: "Jan. 14, 1857. Two months after date I promise to pay to Mr. Arthur Woodmass, or order, 24l. Thomas Henry Emas."—Memorandum: "I, the undersigned, being indebted to Mr. Laidman 2l. 10s., and 1l. 10s. lent this day, leave this note with him; and in the event of my not paying him the 4l. before it becomes due, he shall be at liberty to deduct it")
Woodmass's Defence. There is no evidence that the note is my writing; Mr. Emas believes it, but will not swear to it, and that is not sufficient to establish it; you have the evidence of Mr. Laidman that it was a mere deposit with him; it is not a promissory note within the meaning of the Statute, but a mere document; is it to he said that that was an uttering of that note? there is a document on which I want to borrow a small sum of money, and he was to hold it till the money was paid; that is not the passing of a note in the ordinary course of business; it was a mere deposit for a small sum of money borrowed for a few days, and there is no proof of its being my writing; I have written hundreds of times for him, and surely he would be able to swear to it if it were my writing; I call on the prosecution to prove that is my writing, and, that not being done, you cannot find me guilty of forgery, and, as to the second Count, there is no proof that I wished to utter it as a note; it was merely a deposit for a small sum of money, not an uttering within the meaning of the Act.
SPURGEON— NOT GUILTY .
WOODMASS— GUILTY. of the Forgery. Aged 54.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN RENWICK . I live in Gifford—street, Kingsland. On the night of Sunday, 11th Jan., I was in Church—street, Shoreditch, a little before 10 o'clock—I saw both the prisoners—three men attacked me—I was not perfectly
sober, but sober enough to know what I was doing—they struck me, and knocked me—I fell against a door, which flew open, and I fell into the passage—Chiverall then threw himself upon me while I was on the ground—I grasped him with my arms, and M'Cormick kicked me in the face—I called out, "Police!"—while Chiverall was on me, he attempted to tear my coat open and take my pocket book, which was in my breast pocket—my coat was buttoned as it is now—I got partly up, and Chiverall knocked me down again—Mr. Jackson came to help me, he pulled Chiverall off me, I got up and seized Chiverall by the throat—a policeman came up, and I gave Chiverall into custody—M'Cormick kicked me in the face while I was on the ground, and then ran away—I received a kick from him in the ribs when I was knocked down, and Chiverall threw himself on me—I was very ill for several days, and under a doctor; my lip was cut, and my forehead, and I had a black eye—I did not know either of the prisoners before—I had no quarrel with them—nothing was taken from me.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did this all take place in the presence of Mr. Jackson? A. No—he keeps a public house—I do not know that he was standing at his door, I did not see him there—I will swear, that to my knowledge this did not all take place in his presence—I do not know what part it was that he could not see—I know now that he saw the whole of it—I had not been drinking the whole evening—I did not leave home till past 8 o'clock—this took place about 10 o'clock—I did not want to fight the prisoners, decidedly not—I seized Chiverall by the throat, and gave him to the constable—I did not, to my knowledge, when at the station, attempt to strike Chiverall, nor was I prevented by two constables—I have no recollection of it—I went into Mr. Jackson's just before this—I did not stop there a moment—I came out of the side door, and then came past his house—Mr. Jackson had not been drinking inside—I did not see him at all there—there were two ladies in the bar—this did not take a minute—the police—man and Mr. Jackson came up almost in an instant—I did not say a word to the policeman about Chiverall striking me at all—I mean to swear now that he did strike me; decidedly—if it had not been for this pocket book I should have been severely injured—I did not show the police the bruise on the side, I went to the doctor the next morning—there was nothing particular, it was only a slight bruise—I did not see the constable before he came up.
JAMES JACKSON . I keep the King's Head, in Church-street. On Sunday night, 11th Jan., I saw the prosecutor at my door—I was then going out—he was coming out—I went to the other door, the bottle department, and stood there—I saw two young men about ten yards from the door—the prisoner Chiverall was one; they were together—the prosecutor wan passing, and they turned round immediately behind him, and Chiverall attempted to put his hand into his pocket—the prosecutor turned round and seized Chiverall by the collar, and as soon as he had done that the other person struck the prosecutor in the face, and knocked him against a door—the door flew open, and he fell in the passage—I ran up immediately, and the other one ran away—I took hold of Chiverall by the collar, and pulled him off the prosecutor—the prosecutor got up, took hold of Chiverall by his collar, and called out "Police!"—a policeman came and took him—the other man ran up Boundary—street, the direction the policeman was coming down—I saw the second person, and from M'Cormick's stature and appearance, I believe him to be the man.
Cross-examined. Q. Did the prosecutor pass you? A. Yes; and the
two persons stood with their backs towards the window—they turned, and the hand of one, I could see distinctly, attempted to put in the pocket—they were standing ten yards off and when they did this they had not gone, I should think, more than one yard further—they were at that time between the prosecutor and me—I saw Chiverall's hand going from him in a direction to the prosecutor's pocket—I am certain of it—he touched him, and directly the prosecutor turned round and seized him—that appeared to me to be in consequence of his feeling something done to him; and directly on that M'Cormick knocked him down—I cannot say whether the prosecutor had hold of Chiverall till he fell—when I got up Chiverall was upon the prosecutor in the passage, whether he pulled him down I cannot tell—I staid till the policeman came, which was in half a minute—I did not see the policeman till he came up—there were other persons round after this was done—a great many persons were about, but whether they had been with the prisoners, I cannot tell—the prosecutor had a black eye, and his nose was hurt; I believe he had a scratch on his neck; I did not notice his lip—I did not see any conversation with the prosecutor and these men before this happened.
JOHN ROSS . (policeman, U 227). I was on duty in Church-street, on the night of 11th Jan.—I saw the prisoners pass about ten minutes before this happened—they were in company, and Chiverall had a coat on his left arm—they were going in a direction towards Bethnal Green—road—shortly afterwards I heard a cry of "Police!"—I went to the spot, and saw the prosecutor trying to get up, and Chiverall on him—the prosecutor had hold of Chiverall—I saw M'Cormick run towards Shoreditch, I cannot say whether he turned the corner of Boundary—street or not.
(Chiverall's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follow; "I am very sorry for it; I did not strike him.")
COURT. to JAMES JACKSON. Q. How was the prosecutor? A. He was the worse for drink, but quite conscious of what he was about.
JURY. to JOHN BOSS. Q. Did you know M'Cormick before? A. Yes, I have known him the last twelve months.
Chiverall was also charged with having been before convicted.
GEORGE LOCKYEE . I am an officer of the House of Correction. I produce a certificate of Chiverall's conviction—(Read: "Clerkenwell, April, 1856; William Jones, Convicted of stealing a coat; Confined four months ")—he is the person.
CHIVERALL.—GUILTY.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
M'CORMICK.—Aged 18.*— Transported for Fifteen Years.
KING PLEADED GUILTY .** Aged 17.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
BROWN PLEADED GUILTY .† Aged 17.— Confined Two Years.
PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 29.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Three Months.
I lost a coat on 16th Feb., the day before I was before the Magistrate—it was in the lobby of my shop—I saw it safe at 6 o'clock—it had been there all day—I missed it at 20 minutes before 7 o'clock, and the prisoner was directly afterwards brought to my door by two policemen, with the coat on—this is it—I do not know the prisoner—he had no business to take it—the value of it is 3l.
GEORGE COLLETT . I am a porter, of No. 150, Bishopsgate—street. I was passing through Bishopsgate—street on the evening of 16th Feb., about half past 6 o'clock—I know the prosecutor's—the prisoner and another man were lurking about—one was looking in at the door of the lobby, and the prisoner was looking in at the window of the shop, apparently watching the shop—I walked on a little way, crossed, and came back opposite the shop; by that time the two men had gone away, and walked to the corner of Great St. Helens—in a few seconds one of them came and laid his hand on the collar of the coat, and took the label off—the coat was hanging for sale—he walked away again, and in a few seconds another came, and walked back, and took the coat off the block that it was on, and ran to Clarke—place with it—the other man followed—I ran round into Camomile—street, and saw the man come out of the other end of Clarke—place with the coat, and in a few seconds the prisoner put on the coat, and they went on together—when they got to St. Mary Axe they made a short stop—they then went on, and then made another stop—I walked past them, and stood in a doorway—they walked past me, and stopped by Brown's—buildings—the one who had the coat stood still, and the other went away—I walked over the road, collared the prisoner, and told him he had stolen the coat—he said, "What do you mean by stopping me? I am a respectable man"—in about four minutes a constable came, and I gave him into custody—the other man had escaped—I am sure the prisoner was one of the two persons I saw watching the shop.
JOHN FAIREY . (City policeman, 631). I took the prisoner—Collett had him—he had this coat on him—he said that he had not stolen it, he would go with me to the shop and prove it—as I was taking him along he tried to throw me down and escape from me, but a gentleman came and assisted me till another constable came up.
Prisoner. I was standing in St. Mary Axe; the coat was thrown on my arm, I did not steal it; I was in liquor. Witness. You were quite sober.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Four Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, March 3rd, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir GEORGE CARROLL., Knt., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. Ald. HALE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
(The prisoner, being a foreigner, had the evidence interpreted to him.)
MR. LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN PARKES . I am waiter to Mr. Benjamin Poole, of the Wine Shades, London Bridge. About 3 o'clock in the afternoon of 13th Feb. I saw the prisoner—he came into the wine room, and asked for a glass of sherry; I
served him, and he paid for it—he sat down and drank it—I retired into the lobby—I afterwards went down stairs to serve another gentleman that came in—the prisoner then began to come across the room and walk out; I left off serving my customer, and got upon the stairs and watched the prisoner through a glass door—I saw him take a coat off a nail in the lobby—it was my master, Mr. Benjamin Poole's—he threw the coat over hit arm, and walked deliberately into the street; I allowed him to go out into Thames-street, and then caught hold of him by the collar—he wanted to know what I was going to do with him; I said, to give him in charge of the police; he begged me not to do so; he wrestled with me a little while, but finding he could not get away, he begged me to take him inside, and he would give me any money, which I refused to take—he appeared to understand me perfectly when I spoke English to him—he threw the coat down, and I believe my fellow witness Rhodes threw it into the passage—I gave the prisoner into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. You were watching through the glass door, were you? A. Yes—I went down stairs to serve a gentleman, but as I had my suspicions, I got upon the stairs to look after the prisoner—while I was down stairs the prisoner was up stairs drinking his sherry; he finished the sherry, and I heard him wait; across the room—there were three or four others in the room—I heard this man get up and walk across the room; I did not know the prisoner's foot, I thought it was him I heard—it is a large room—I had suspicion of him because he had come in half an hour before, and looked round and then went out again, perhaps the way was not clear enough—I had lost things previously; I lost a coat off my back, one that I wore in the business—my employer looks to me as responsible for the property left in the room—Rhodes is an assistant in the hotel—he was not before the Magistrate, it was by the Lord Mayor's wish that he was subpœnaed—I was out of the prisoner's sight while I was down stairs—I did not leave him standing in the lobby, he was in the wine room—that is a good distance from the lobby; it communicates with the lobby—Rhodes was in the luncheon bar—I was standing on the stairs when the prisoner took the coat off the nail—I should say I was about three or four yards from where the coat was—the other persons were still in the wine room; to the best of my recollection there were five or six—there are always a good many people coming in and out.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Did you see the prisoner come in? A. I did—he had no coat on his arm at that time—I was looking through a glass window; I had a clear opportunity of seeing—the coat I had lost was a dress coat, the only coat I wear in the afternoon in business.
GEORGE RHODES . I manage the refreshment room at Mr. Poole's hotel. I saw Parkes collar the prisoner, and saw the coat on the prisoner's arm—I could not go out to his assistance just at that time, as I was busy; I sent the porter out to help him, as I saw that the prisoner was rather over-powering him—I went and picked the coat up, and threw it into the passage.
Cross-examined. Q. Where was it that you saw the coat on his arm? A. In the street, not in the lobby.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe you found a letter on the prisoner containing a sovereign and a half? A. Yes; he had no other money—he gave his correct name and address at the station.
(The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was read as follows: "The coat was lying on the ground by the door; I took it up by my left hand, and hung it on a kind of banister that goes down into the cellar; upon that the witness came upon me; I had not the coat in my hand; he said, "What do you want with that coat?" I said, "What do you want?" as I did not understand very well; he said, "You want to steal the coat," and thereupon he seized me, and held me fast by the door, within the house, and then he said he would give me in charge.")
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY. Aged 32.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Two Months.
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution.
EBENEZER EDGERLEY CLARKE . I am a draper's assistant, at No. 70, St. Paul's—churchyard. On 20th Feb. I met the prisoner near Savage-gardens, Tower-hill, about a quarter to 9 o'clock in the evening; she said something about the weather, and asked me in what direction I was going; I continued to walk on, and turned down a street which was in my road—she followed me; I stopped immediately, and while I was standing there, which was about two minutes, I felt her fingers or my purse go from my pocket; two men came round to prevent my securing her, and asked me the way to some place—I ran round them, and pursued her, having missed my purse, which was safe when I left St. Paul's-churchyard, 20 minutes previously, and I had not taken it out—it contained two half crowns, one shilling, one sixpence, two receipt stamps, I think, and one postage stamp, and two or three cards—I overtook the prisoner rather more than 200 yards off; I kept by her side, and demanded my purse; she gave it me empty as I thought, but I found a sixpence in it, and the stamps—I am sure it was the same purse, it has my name on it—two men from the crowd tried to prevent my keeping with her; I believe they were the same men, but cannot swear to them—the prisoner got away from me some 12 yards in consequence, but I called a constable, and she was taken in my presence.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Had you just come from the shop? A. Yes, I was quite sober—I had not the slightest idea that she had put her hand into my pocket until I found that my purse was gone—there were several people round when she gave me the purse, but she gave it to me under her cloak; it was not till two or three minutes after that that the constable came up.
HENRY STUTTLE . (City policeman, 577). I saw the prosecutor in a crowd of 150 or 200 people, holding the prisoner—she got away from him, and I went after her, and took her; she said that she knew nothing about it—a shilling and a farthing were found on her at the station.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Six Months.
HARRIETT WEST . I am a widow, and live at No. 18, North-street, Sloane-street. The prisoner lived next door to me—I have been in the habit of receiving some money from Newark towards the support of my child, by Post Office orders—I have asked the prisoner to write several letters for me, but on this occasion she wrote on her own behalf—shortly
before that I asked her to write a letter to James Andrews, thinking for the money; she wrote the letter, and took it out, saying that she was going to have it directed, and brought back a letter, which I supposed Was the same, directed and ready for the post—this is it (produced)—I had suspicions, and went into my aunt's, and opened it—I can read—(The letter was to James Andrews, and was signed H. West; it stated that she had not one penny left, and that her brother was going to send a gentleman down to summon Andrews, for the child's sake)—I immediately sent for her into my aunt's house, and said, "This is not the letter you wrote; that was thanking for money I have received;" she said, "Yes it is, I have only said a little more, as you are always so easy"—my aunt said, "No, you have done quite enough"—I saw her afterwards, and she said, "Well, Mrs. West, what do you mean to do? I will pay you 2s. at a time"—I said, "No, I have spoken to those I cannot trifle with"—about the second day after I found it out, the prisoner gave me this letter (This, being read, contained the following: "Mrs. West, if you knew how wretched I am, you would forgive me, as you know I have not had one night's rest since I so cruelly used you; but pray forgive me; it never happened before, and never shall again. You shall have every penny back again. Edgill has got the promise of work next week, and you shall have 2s. a week till I pay you all Do not say a word to Edgill; for if he knows it, he will nearly kill me")—I did not receive this Post Office order (produced)—I signed nothing of this kind—I did not tell the prisoner to sign it for me, I never saw it.
Prisoner. You are aware that I never wrote either of those letters, and that I and my husband have supported you and your child for weeks and months. Witness. She gave my child a pair of socks, and nursed it, and was kind to it, and I paid her 6d. and 9d. a day, according to what I had—I never had 1d. of her but what I paid her back.
THOMAS WALKER . I am assistant to Mr. Peach, postmaster, of No. 65, Piccadilly. In consequence of advices I received from Newark, I paid 20s. on this Post Office order to a woman who I have no recollection of, but she signed the order, "Received the above, Harriette West."
Prisoner's Defence. I went the week before, as this gentleman knows, and received the money for Mrs. West; I never wrote either of these letters, and never robbed her of a halfpenny.
GUILTY. of uttering. Aged 24.— Confined Twelve Months.
376. GEORGE DIXEY , stealing 600 pairs of gloves, value 76l., 240 pairs of gloves, 627 pairs of gloves, 348 shirt collars, and 3 boxes; the goods of John Boucher and others, his masters: and THOMAS HULME , feloniously receiving the same: to which
DIXEY PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.—
He also PLEADED GUILTY . to another indictment.— Confined Two Years.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and POLAND. Conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN BOUCHER . I am a member of the firm of Dent, Alcroft, and Co., of No. 97, Wood-street, Cheapside, sole consignees of Dumond's gloves. Dixey was in our service from Feb. to Dec. last year—on Feb. 3rd, we received information from Haydon. the detective officer, who accompanied me to Messrs. Edgcumbe's, in Wood—street, which is not above 100 yards from our warehouse—it is a wholesale fringe and trimming warehouse—we went into the counting house, saw one of the partners, and Hulme was Sent
for—when he came, I said that some gloves had been traced to his possession or rather that he had offered some for sale to a party at Croydon, and wished to know how he became possessed of them—he stated, after a little hesitation, that a friend of his in the Custom House, or who had bought them at a Custom House sale, had supplied him—I said that it would be necessary to have his friend's name; after hesitating some little time, he stated that it was a person named Dixey—I said, "Did not you know that he was in our employment 1"—he said, "Yes; but I did not know bow he became possessed of the gloves"—I asked him Dixey's address—he said, "I cannot give it to you"—I asked him what price he gave Dixey for the gloves; he said, "I gave 12s. 6d. a dozen"—I said, "You knew the value of these goods, for you sold them to Mr. Messent, of Croydon, for 22s. a dozen"—I said that it would be necessary to search his lodging, in conesquence of having disposed of some of our property—he said that he had none of our property with him, but afterwards recollected that he had about two dozen pairs, which we should find at his lodging—at the same interview view his landlord, who is also in Messrs. Edgcumbe's employment, was introduced into the counting house, and I asked him if he had seen any quantity of gloves in Hulme's possession during the time he had been living with him—he said that he had seen some, and that Hulme had made him a present of three pairs, one pair of which he had worn, and the other two he gave me on the following day—I then went with Haydon and Hulme to Dixey's lodgings—he was not at home, but we waited a short time, and be came in—I pointed to Hulme, and said, "You see this young man, you have disposed of various lots of gloves to him; how did you become possessed of them?"—he sank on a chair, and remained probably for five minutes without uttering a word—I said, "You must not put off our time in this way; you must account for the goods you have disposed of to him"—he then said, "I stole them"—we then searched his lodgings; some articles were found, which Haydon took possession of, and he was given into custody—this was about 7 o'clock in the evening—Hulme was not taken, but was desired to attend Dixey's examination before the Magistrate on the following day, which he did; and Dixey was remanded till 7th Feb., when Hulme was desired to attend again; he did so, and was given into custody by the Magistrate's direction—the trade price of the gloves was, at that time, 36s. or 36s. 6d.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was the name "Dumont" of them? A. On a portion, and "D" on the others—I have been examined twice before—when I asked Hulme whether he had any of the goods still in his possession, he at first said that he had not any—I do not think I have been asked that before—I swear that to the best of my belief he said that he got them from a friend in the Custom House—I have stated that before, I swear that—I asked him to whom he had sold the gloves, and he said, "To Mr. Messent and Mr. Harriss, of Croydon"—before that I had said that we had discovered two parties to whom he had sold them, and mentioned their names—he did not say that he had sold them for his brother—that conversation took place, I believe, on 3rd Feb., and he was not given into custody till the 7th—I was not present when his place was searched—when we saw Dixey we took Hulme into the room with us; I did not tell him when I came out, that what he had stated entirely corresponded with what I had heard, nor words to that effect—the conversation with Dixey was the same evening.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You asked Hulme if he had any of your goods
home, was that before or after you said that you must search his lodgings? A. Before; his answer was, that to the best of his belief he had not; and it was then that I said that it would be necessary to search his lodgings; and then he said that he had them in his possession.
MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a City detective officer. On 3rd Feb. I accompanied the prosecutor to Edgcumbe's about 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon—their premises are 150 or 200 yards from the prosecutors—Hulme was brought into the counting house where we were, and Mr. Boucher said that he had received information that he had been disposing of a large quantity; of gloves, and he was desirous of asking him from whom he received them—after some hesitation, he said, "From a young man named Dixey"—Mr. Boucher asked him if he knew that Dixey had been in his service—he said, after some hesitation, "Yes"—he was asked what price he paid for them; and he said, "12s. 6d. a dozen pair;" and that Dixey informed him that they were the proceeds of Custom House sales—nothing more was said about the Custom House that I heard—I did not at that time know anything about Mr. Messent having bought some of them—we then proceeded to Dixey's house, No. 59, Acton-street, Gray's Inn-lane, and remained in the front parlour till he came home—I then told him that I was a constable and that Hulme, pointing to him, had informed me that he had received a large quantity of gloves from him—after some hesitation, Dixey said, "I stole them"—he was then taken into custody, and Hulme was desired to attend on the following day at the Mansion House—he did so, and again after the remand—I searched Hulme's lodgings on the 9th, and found a box there—I opened it with a key which I found on Hulme when I took him into custody, and in it found these three boxes (produced), containing eighteen and a half dozen collars—I also found some brown paper with "G. Dixey, till called for," written on it.
Cross-examined. Q. Was that over the boxes? A. On the top of one of them—this was on 8th Feb.—I first searched the place, and brought away one box, and on the following day I brought away the other two—I got the key of the box on the 7th—some mention was made of Mr. Messent and Mr. Harriss at the first interview, but I do not remember the substance of it.
MR. ROBINSON. to MICHAEL HAYDON. Q. Did you go to Edgcumbe's with Hulme, and come back with him? A. Yes, and I was there the whole time when I went to Dixey's.
WILLIAM AIRS . I am a draper, of No. 8, High-street, Croydon. In April last, I received from my brother Thomas two pairs of gloves—I afterwards spoke to Frederick Hulme, a brother of the prisoner Hulme, about them, and he brought me on that occasion about fifty dozen of gloves, which I bought at 22s. 6d., and gave him a cheque for 55l. 15s.—they were Paris gloves; the maker's name was Courvoisier.
Cross-examined. Q. How long did they remain on your premises? A. Some were sold at once, and others remained in my stock for a month or two—I sold them at 2s. 9d. a pair, 33s. a dozen—I have some of them still—this colour always sells well; they were not all of one colour—I dare say I have other pairs left in my stock, but I cannot identify them.
FREDERICK HULME . I am the prisoner Hulme's brother, and am in the employment of Bartram and Harvey of Holborn-hill. In April last, my brother told me that a friend of his had bought about fifty dozen gloves at a sale, and asked me if I knew any one who would be likely to purchase them—he showed me two pairs like these produced—I mentioned the name
of Airs, of Croydon, to him, and he gave me two pairs to send as a sample—Mr. Thomas Airs sent them down, and I afterwards saw Mr. Airs, of Croydon, who came up to London—the price my brother desired me to mention was 22s. 6d. per dozen pair, and Mr. Airs bought them of me at that price—there were between forty and fifty dozen—I received them of my brother, and received a cheque for 55l. 15s., for them, which was handed over to my brother.
Cross-examined. Q. What character has your brother invariably borne? A. A good one; there was never the slightest imputation cast upon his character—I have known Dixey about four years, and have every reason to believe he is an honest, respectable person—I knew him at Ipswich, where he was in the linen drapery trade.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did he transact business in that trade? A. Yes, as an assistant to Messrs. Footman and Co.; I lived there with him two years—my brother was there also at the time Dixey was; that is very nearly two years ago—that house dealt in gloves, but not in French gloves.
CHARLES MESSENT . I am a draper, of Croydon. I have known the prisoner, Hulme, for twelve months—in Aug. last, he came to Croydon to see me, and brought some gloves, thirty dozen, I think—they were Courvoisier's—I bought them at 22s. 6d. per dozen—they were of various colours, but principally violet—I said that I did not want so many of a colour, but if I could sell them again I would take them all, and the thirty dozen were left at my premises—I saw him again a few days after, and told him I could do with all the violet that he had—I paid him on that occasion for the thirty dozen that he had previously left—about 4th Sept. I saw him again at Croydon; he brought 'down twenty dozen more, and I think I paid him for them—he spoke to me again, about 2nd Oct., and on the next day he brought twenty dozen and a half at the same price—they were all French gloves of various makers; there were some of Dumond's, and Caldesar's, and Serrusier's—there were none of Courvoisier's there, but they were all Courvoisier's on the first occasion—I afterwards spoke to Mr. Johnson, who is in the employment of Hitchcock and Co., and spoke to him about the gloves; I also saw Mr. Gilbert, who is in the employ of Alcroft and Co., on the same day; that was about 4th or 5th Feb.—on the next day, I gave eighteen dozen pairs of gloves to Mr. Gilbert; those brought on 1st Nov. were also taken; they were all received from Hulme—I believe this letter to be in Hulme's writing—(This was dated Feb. 2nd, signed C. Hulme, and requested to know when the witness would let him have some more money on the account)—I received that on 2nd Feb.—soon after I had given those goods to Gilbert, I saw Hulme at my house; he asked me what I intended to do about Dixey's case—I asked him what he was doing; he said that he had not been back to his employment yet—it was on Friday, 6th Feb.; I told him he had better go back; he said, "I suppose we shall be all right in the matter"—I asked him who he meant; he said, "You, Mr. Harris, and myself;" I said, "The best thing you can do will be to appear to-morrow"—he said at that time that Dixey had bought them at a sale in Oxford-street; that was the first time that Dixey's name had ever been mentioned to me—I knew at that time that Dixey was in custody, I had been present at his examination on the 5th.
Cross-examined. Q. Did the conversation take place on 6th Feb? A. Yes—I mean to state that—he did not say at that conversation that they were bought at a Custom House sale; he said that when I first bought the gloves—he said that Dixey had bought them at a sale in Oxford-street,
with other goods—I think the word "Sale" was used—I had no suspicions when I took the gloves—it was I who gave information, it was given at my request—I had no suspicions whatever until the goods were shown to Messrs. Hitchcock—some of them remained on my premises until the first examination tomorrow—I expressed a dislike to so many violet-coloured ones.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Under what circumstances was it that he told you that they had been bought at a Custom House sale? A. I heard it first from Hulme, at Croydon, when Mr. Harris bought his in Feb., that was the first parcel—he did not say by whom they were bought at a Custom House sale, I merely heard it incidentally—I did not hear Dixey's name till he was taken—I went to Hitchcock's to sell some of them, and showed Mr. Johnson a sample, but in consequence of what passed between us I did not sell them—I afterwards saw the prosecutor, and gave them over to Gilbert.
ROBERT JOHNSON . I am glove buyer to Messrs. Hitchcock. Mr. Messent offered me some gloves, the first lot about Oct. or Nov., and the second lot about a month ago—I bought the first lot at 27s. 6d., which was what he asked; there were about thirty dozen—when he brought the second lot, for reasons I had, I communicated with my principals, and did not buy them—I have not given up any of the first lot; Mr. Messent brought me the second lot to ask me whether they were the goods I thought them to be, or not; I had said something which induced him to bring me the two dozen—I found them to be of three different makers; these are the two dozen (produced), they are marked, "L. N. C.," which is a mark known in the trade—some persons call them "L. N. C.'s," and others Caldesar's—these others are made by Dumont, the name is inside—the third maker is Courvoisier, there is only one pair of his.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Are these gloves all the same price? A. No; the others are 6d. a dozen less.
JOHN GILBERT . I am manager of the glove department in the house of Dent, Alcroft, and Co., of No. 97, Wood-street, Cheapside. I have examined these two dozen pairs of gloves produced, from Hitchcock's—they are of three different makes; we are the only persons who receive those of Dumont's and those marked "L. N. C."—all the gloves that come to London from those houses are consigned to us, by contract with the manufacturers; we contract with them for the whole of their produce—I have not seen any of these gloves in London through any house but ours—I have been fifteen years in the trade—of these two dozen there is only one pair of Courvoisier's, the others are Dumont's and L. N. C.'s—the value of these gloves at the time in question was 33s. 6d. a dozen—that was the price we charged to the trade, to sell again—here are sixteen dozen other gloves from Messent's; they are the make of Dumont, L. N. C., and Serrusier; we are the only importers of those; they are of the same value within 6d. or 7d. a dozen.
Cross-examined. Q. Then Messrs. Dent do not make gloves for themselves? A. Oh, yes, they do, in very large quantities; but they also import—we purchase of a great many different makers; all those that I have mentioned, manufacture exclusively for us; they may also make a great many for the French trade.
JOHN STEPHEN JERVIS . I am in the employment of Dent, Alcroft, and Co. I have examined these collars; here are eleven dozen of one sort, ten and a half of another, and seven of another—I believe that they have formed part of my employers' stock—they have not our private mark upon them, nor have the boxes any mark; we never mark this class of good—the
boxes are of the same colour and construction as those made for us by my direction—here is a piece of brown paper with "G. Dixey, till called for," upon it—I believe that to be the writing of the prisoner Dixey.
JOHN BOUCHER . re-examined. I have looked at the gloves produced; they are the manufacture of Dumont, Courvoisier, Caldesar, and Serrusier; they are goods that had been consigned to us from those houses, and formed part of our stock—I cannot speak so positively to the collars, but I believe them to be part of ours; there is no mark upon them, or on the boxes.
(The prisoners received good characters.)
HULME— GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Two Years.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Nine Months.
(The officer stated that there were many similar charges against the prisoner.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 12.— The officer stated that the prisoner had been four times in custody.—Judgment Respited.
SAMUEL SHAYER . I am assistant to Mr. Henry Withers, a hosier, of No. 9, Poultry. On the afternoon of 26th Feb., I was in the shop, and saw the prisoner come in, take this handkerchief off the side of the counter, place it in his trowsers pocket, and walk away—I ran out after him; he had got two doors off—I brought him back again—he took the handkerchief out of his pocket, threw it in the doorway, and said, "I have not got it"—he then offered to pay for it, and said, "How much is it?"—I saw him searched, and he had not a sous about him.
Prisoner. I was in liquor at the time; I had been drinking all the afternoon; there was a female who had half a crown pf mine, and she went into the shop, and put it on the counter; I went to get it, and she threw the handkerchief at me; I had no intention of stealing it; I did not know what I was doing. Witness. He was perfectly sober—there was no other person in the shop; there was no female there until the officer came in, and took the prisoner, and then a woman from the crowd outside came and asked what he had been doing, and seemed to sympathise with him.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
GEORGE BATT . I produce a certificate—(Read: "William Crocker, Convicted at the Surrey Sessions, July, 1855, of larceny, and Confined three months)—I was present at the trial; the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY.* Aged 26.— Confined Twelve Months.
381. WALTER SMITH , burglary in the dwelling house of Josiah William Fernayhaugh, and stealing a knife and other goods, and 8s. in money; his property: also, 3 5l. Bank notes; the property of William Edward Bareham, in his dwelling house: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 14.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
(The prosecutor, who was the prisoner's stepfather, stated that he had been continually robbed by the prisoner for the last five years, and that he had done all in his power to reclaim him.)
PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 32.— Confined Twelve Months.
CAMPBELL POOLE . I am assistant to Thomas and William Ayres, of Hill-street, Hammersmith. In the afternoon of 4th Feb. I was standing at the shop, by our front window—I heard a smash of the glass, immediately ran out, and saw the prisoner running at full speed towards the Broadway—at the same time he was pointed out to me by a lad—I followed him for about a quarter of a mile—I did not lose sight of him—I cried out, "Stop thief!"—he stopped when I got within about two yards of him, and asked what I wanted of him—I told him he had broken my employers' window, and I suspected he had stolen something—he said he had not stolen anything, and if he had broken the window he would pay for it—I gave him into custody—I went to the station, and afterwards returned to the shop, and found that a diamond ring, marked twenty guineas, was missing—it had been in the front window, directly opposite where the pane of glass was broken—the ring has not been found; here is the box in which it was; that was left in the window, with the card—I did not see anybody else near there at the time; I did not see anybody to whom the ring could have been handed—I rushed out immediately, the window having been smashed on a previous occasion, and the prisoner was not above a yard from the window.
JURY. Q. You left the window to go after the prisoner? A. Yes—it was about twenty minutes before I returned to the shop—I am sure the prisoner is the person that the boy pointed out to me.
WILLIAM JOHN TOMLJNSON . I live with my father and mother, at Brook-green, Hammersmith. On Wednesday afternoon, 4th Feb., I was standing at the door of Mr. Ayres's shop—I saw a man push his hand against the window, and then run away—I heard the window break—I did not see the man's face; I pointed out to Mr. Poole the person I saw push against the window—he did not fall against it.
Prisoner. On the first examination the boy said it was not me, it was a taller man, with a jacket on. Witness. I did not say he was not the man; I never noticed his height.
REBECCA FOREST . I live opposite Mr. Ayres's. On the afternoon of 4th Feb. I saw the prisoner walking up and down for about three quarters of an hour, and at Mr. Ayres's window—he turned round several times, and looked up at my window—I heard the glass smash, but did not see the window broken—I had seen the prisoner speaking to a woman; I cannot remember how long that was before I heard the glass smash.
Prisoner. She said at first she supposed I was the person, and afterwards she was positive. Witness. I swore to him the first time I saw him—I knew he was the man that I had seen walking up and down so long.
NORRIS BAKER . On the afternoon of 4th Feb. I was in the Broadway, Hammersmith, and saw the prisoner running, followed by Poole—I saw him stopped—I saw him take his hand from his pocket, and like throw something; I did not see anything go from his hand—there are gardens all along there—we went and looked there after we came back, but were not able to find anything.
THOMAS AYRES . I saw the prisoner at the station house—I gave him into custody, for breaking the window, and stealing the ring—he said he had not stolen anything, but if he had broken the window he would pay for it—a knife was found; it was compared with marks in the putty of the window, and fitted exactly—there were two holes made in the putty—that would crack the glass, and enable him to push it in—the knife fitted those marks exactly—immediately my young man ran out of the shop, I also ran out, and missed the ring; that was within one or two minutes of the smash; I stopped, and had the shutters put up immediately—there was not sufficient time for anybody to have got to the window and taken anything.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not say I was drunk? A. You were very much in liquor, but quite sensible; you knew what you were about; I did not see you running.
Prisoner's Defence. It is true that I have been connected with a bad young man; I was transported for stealing a pair of boots; I got off after nearly four years, and have worked hard ever since; I joined the Rifles, and went out and served fourteen months in the Crimea, in the Land Transport Corps; I am tailor by trade, and can have a good character.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
GEORGE HODGES . (policeman, S 36). I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; James Godwin, Convicted April, 1851, of larceny, after a previous conviction; Transported for Seven Years")—I was present at that trial—the prisoner is the person—he has been in the Crimea since then—I know nothing against him since he has returned.
GUILTY. Aged 22.— Confined Nine Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, March 3rd, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. SALOMONS.; Mr. Ald. WIRE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 43.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRENNAN . I was an inspector of police, but have now resigned. On 12th Jan., between 9 and 10 o'clock at night, I went to a cottage in Montague-place, Montague-street, Spitalfields—it consists of one room on the
ground floor—I found the door fast—it opens immediately into the one room—no one opened it, and I began to break it in—I made a hole in the middle of the door, that enabled me to look into the room—I saw the prisoner throwing things about the room indiscriminately—some of the officers who went with me, broke in the window, and while that was doing the door gave way, and I went in, and found the prisoner and two children—I found on the table which stood near the fire, twelve counterfeit shillings, one good florin, and one good shilling, a galvanic battery jar with solution in it, a cup with solution, and two shillings in the cup—I found a file with white metal in its teeth, an iron spoon used as a ladle, and a purse with four shillings and a farthing in good money—I also found some bottles—there is no internal communication between that house and the adjoining one—the adjoining house is unoccupied—the door of it was open; it is in a very dilapidated state—I went in it, and in a recess between the plaster and the brickwork, I found these two moulds, one for making florins, the other for making shillings—they were in the down stairs room on the ground floor—there were no persons in that house—I, took the moulds into the room where the prisoner was, and stated in her hearing that I had found them—she said she had a presentiment half an hour previous that I was coming, and she put the things away, and threw the galvanic battery down the privy—I said, "That is not correct, for I am sure it is here"—soon afterwards I saw another officer find the galvanic battery plates, wet, in a corner of the room—the prisoner made several observations, and said she did it to keep her children from starving—I accompanied her to the station, and on the way she said, "I am the wife of the man you took here on Thursday; what do you think he will get I do you think he will get off with four years?"—I said, "We are not allowed to answer any such question, or to give any opinion at all on such matters"—she said, "Well, I did it to keep my children from starving"—the children are, I think, one about seven years old, and the other about five—I took them in a cab to the workhouse, and they are in the workhouse now—the man who passed as the prisoner's husband had been taken in the same place on the Thursday before, and he was at that time in confinement—I took away all I found in the house at that time, and made a diligent search, too, so that all that I found on Monday must have been brought in after his apprehension—I omitted to state that the florin and shilling which I found on the table were the pattern pieces from which the counterfeits had been taken.
ARTHUR ELLIOTT . (policeman). I accompanied Brannan to take the prisoner—I found five counterfeit shillings, which I produce—I secured the prisoner, and went with her and the other officer to the station.
BENJAMIN BRIANT . (police inspector). I accompanied the other officers to the cottage, and assisted in searching it—on the sideboard near the fire place, I found a saucer containing six counterfeit shillings that correspond in reign and date with the double mould—on the floor near the fireplace I found three more counterfeit shillings, and in a corner of the room where the battery plates were found, I found a good shilling, which had apparently been used in solution for coating the counterfeit money—I was present when the moulds were found in the other cottage, and I heard the statement made by the prisoner.
JAMES BRANNAN . (police sergeant 21). I accompanied the other officers to the cottage, and on the floor near the fireplace I found five shillings corresponding in reign and date with the double mould—I searched the cottage with the other officers.
THOMAS EVANS . (policeman, G 145). I assisted the other officers, and behind the door I found this battery plate and wire amongst some dirty linen clothes—I heard something drop, and I saw inspector Brannan pick up a good shilling; I found three counterfeit shillings close by.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. This mould is for shillings, and several shillings from this mould produced by Mr. Brannan and the officers are of the same date and mould—the mould of the pattern shilling is not here—this other mould is for a florin, and the good florin is the pattern of this mould—here are no specimens cast from it—it has not been used—here is the battery and tools, and everything necessary for making counterfeit coin.
Prisoner's Defence. I desire to state to the Court, that on the Thursday when my husband was taken, certain coins and implements were left by him in the house, an empty one, adjoining ours; and at the time of my visiting him, when under remand, he directed me to go to the next house, fetch away the coins which I might find there, and endeavour to finish them in order to obtain counsel for his defence; but, should I find myself incapable of so doing, then to utterly destroy them; finding that I could not do as my husband directed me, I was about to destroy them by melting them in a spoon, when the officers came in and seized me, and searched the house, and found the partly finished coins which my husband had left in the empty house next door—they also searched that house, and found the moulds which had been left there by my husband, with the coin; such are the real facts; and I, my Lord, a woman with three young children, am a perfectly innocent agent in this transaction, having acted solely under my husband's direction.
JAMES BRANNAN . re-examined. I know that the prisoner and her husband lived together—we paid them a visit in August, they were living together then—I am sure these things were not left there when we took the husband—we made a very diligent search—they could not have been in that empty house—we made a diligent search there.
COURT. Q. Was there anything in the appearance of the instruments or the battery which would enable you to judge whether they had been used for coining within a few days? A. No, but two shillings were in the cup, undergoing the process of solution—the file appeared with white metal in it's teeth, as if it had been used on that occasion—there was this piece of white metal in the spoon.
GUILTY . Aged 36.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS BRYAN . On 21st Jan. the prisoner came to my shop, about 7 o'clock, for a quarter of a pound of butter; she paid me with a bad shilling—I handed it to my brother-in-law, and he gave her into custody—I marked the shilling, and gave it to the constable—I had bitten it, and know it was bad.
WILLIAM SMITH . I am brother-in-law of the last witness. I saw the prisoner pay him a shilling, which he handed to me; I asked how she became possessed of it—she said she got it at a butcher's shop up the street—I said I would go to the butcher's, and see—she said, "I should not like to go there; perhaps I did not get it there"—I asked her where she lived; she said, nowhere, she had no place of abode—I gave her in charge, and handed the shilling to the officer.
GEORGE HIGGINS . I am a butcher, and live at Paddington. On 2nd Feb. the prisoner came to my shop for two mutton chops—she gave me a shilling—I did not see that it was bad—I gave her 6d. change—I put the shilling into a drawer, where there was no other money—about five minutes afterwards she came again for three more chops, and she gave me a 2s. piece, which I noticed was bad—I told her so, and gave it her back; she said she would go and change it at the linendraper's close by, where she said she had taken it—she went away, taking the florin with her, and leaving the chops, saying she would call for them—when she was gone, I went to the drawer, and found the shilling was bad, and there was no other coin with it—I went after the prisoner, and found her in the street—I told her of it; she said if I would go with her to Stevens-street, she would show me where she took the bad money, and all would be explained—I refused to go, and she struck me—the policeman came up, and took her into custody.
Prisoner. I never was near the shop; he came to me in the street, and said, "You gave me a bad shilling;" I said, "I did not; there is a public house where I have been drinking all the afternoon; if you will go there, I will show you the persons with whom I have been drinking." Witness. Yes, you said you had been drinking in a public house.
COURT. Q. What time did she come to your shop? A. About half past 5 o'clock—I am quite positive that she came to my shop—when I first taxed her with this, she did not at all deny that she had been to my shop.
JOHN DRAIN . (policeman, D 98). The prisoner was given to me by the last witness—she was very violent, and kicked me two or three times on the legs, and struck me in the face—she had been drinking—I produce the shilling given me by the last witness.
GEORGE BALL . I am a draper, in Church—way, Somers-town. On 13th Jan. the prisoner came to my shop, about half past 5 o'clock; she asked to look at some calico—I said we had some at 8d. a yard, but I thought that would be too good—she looked at it, and said that would do, and she had a quarter of a yard—she offered me in payment a 2s. piece; I tried it in the money detector, and found it bad—I asked her how she became possessed of it; she said a gentleman gave it her in the New-road, whom she had seen several times—I marked the 2s. piece, and gave it to the policeman.
GEORGE FURNIVAL . (policeman, P 249). I produce a certificate—(Read: At this Court, April, 1855, Louisa Bentley was convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and confined six months)—I was the officer in that case—the prisoner is the person who was then convicted.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Two Years.
MESSRS. CLERK. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE HORSPOOL . I am a baker, and live in High-street, Poplar. On Thursday, 12th Feb., the prisoner came, about 5 o'clock in the evening, for a half quartern loaf, and tendered me a half crown; I gave him change,
2s. 2 1/2 d., and he left the shop before I had well put the half crown out of my hand—after he was gone, I turned on the gas, and looked at the half crown—I bit a piece out of it, and put the remainder under a glass—on 14th Feb. my wife sent for me into the shop about 12 o'clock—I found the prisoner there—my wife gave me a half crown; I saw it was bad directly, and I said to the prisoner, "This is bad, and you were here on Thursday, and gave me one"—he said, "I am sure I have not been in the neighbourhood before"—I am quite certain he is the person—I sent for a constable, and when he came the prisoner said his mother had given him the half crown—I gave him into custody, with the coin.
ABRAHAM GODWIN . (police sergeant, K 24). I was called to Mr. Horspool's shop, and took the prisoner—I received this half crown and part of another from Mr. Horspool—the prisoner said his mother gave it to him—that was the one he uttered on the 14th—I found no money on him.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. CLERK. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM RYAN . (policeman, B 214). I produce a certificate—(Read: At this Court, June, 1856, George Holloway was convicted of uttering counterfeit coin, and sentenced to six months imprisonment)—I was present, the prisoner is the man.
JULIA O'NEIL . On 17th Feb., the prisoner had a night's lodging at my house; he paid me a shilling—I put it into my purse, where I had no other shilling, and gave him a sixpence—I found the shilling was bad about a couple of hours afterwards—I gave that shilling to the constable on the Wednesday—I had it two days—I am sure it was the same—I saw the prisoner over at the public house after I found the shilling was bad—I went to him, and told him he had passed a bad shilling—he said if I would give him the shilling he would give me a good one—the policeman came, I gave him the shilling, and gave the prisoner into custody.
Prisoner. Q. What night did I come and ask you for a lodging? A. On Tuesday—you slept there a night before you gave me the shilling—you had paid me the first night with a good sixpence.
COURT. Q. Did he come and pay you when he came down in the morning? A. No, he left the house and came back and paid for a lodging he was to have the next night, and he came in the evening and slept there—I had then found that the shilling was bad, but he was drunk, and I did not speak to him—he slept there that night, I saw him in the morning when he came down—I told him he gave me a bad shilling—he said if I would give it him he would give me another—I said, "No, I shall not, I will give you into custody"—he said nothing, but walked away, and I did not see him till the evening at the public house where I saw him, and spoke to him—it was on the Tuesday morning I told him he gave me a bad shilling—there was a woman outside my door at the time he gave it me.
evening, 18th Feb.; I stopped outside the George and Bull public house—between 8 and 9 o'clock, I saw the prisoner in the house, and Mrs. O'Neil was there—she came out with the prisoner, and made this charge against him, of passing the shilling—she had the shilling with her, and gave it to me—I asked the prisoner to let me see if he had any money; he would not—I took him into custody—he struggled very violently—I saw him put some money into his month—I saw the edge of one shilling in his mouth—he swallowed it, and got convulsed—I had another constable with me to assist me—he assaulted the other constable, and bit his finger—I hit him on the back—he swallowed the shilling—at the station he took this half crown out of his mouth—I took it out of his hand, he had no coin on him—he swallowed the other—he put either two or three pieces into his mouth—I saw the edge of one shilling between his teeth, and I heard them gurgle in his mouth—when Mrs. O'Neil said to him that he had passed a bad shilling, he said he would give her a good one if she would come to his lodging, but she would not.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not swear it was on Thursday you took me? A. Yes, I did, but it was a mistake, it was on Wednesday.
COURT. Q. Have the shillings he swallowed been found? A. No—he said at the time, "I wish I had forty in my mouth, I could swallow them."
Prisoner's Defence. I went to her house on Sunday night, and on the following day I went to secure my lodging, and gave her a shilling; she gave me a sixpence out, and I went there the same night, which I would not have done if I had known it was bad; on the following morning she said it was bad, after putting it into her purse with other money; it would have been the last of my thoughts to have gone there, if I had given her bad money; I have known her twenty-eight years; on-the following morning she told me the shilling was bad; I said I was sorry, but I would make it right before night; I went to have a bit of bread and cheese at the public house which is right opposite to her house, which I should not have done if I had known the money was bad; this constable and some others threw me down, and kept me down twenty minutes on my back, and they put their hands into my mouth; I bit one of them, and I would again; as to the half crown, that was taken at the station; I do not know how I became possessed of it; I was drunk.
GUILTY . Aged 37.— Four Years Penal Servitude
MESSRS. CLERK. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN CLARK . (policeman, N 345). On 12th Feb., I was in Albion-road, Stoke Newington; I saw the prisoner carrying a bag, I asked him what he had got in his bag—he said he had nothing—I said, "You must have something"—he threw the bag down, and tried to run away—I caught hold of him, and while I was struggling with him, he put his hand into his waistcoat pocket, and I saw something in his hand—he was trying to throw it away—I struck him on the arm and it fell down, I took it up, and he said, "That don't belong to me"—I said, "What don't belong to you?"—he said, "That bad money"—before that I had not made any observation as to the contents of the paper—I took him to the station, and found in the paper two half crowns and one shilling.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Were there other persons there? A. There was no one at all before I took him into custody—it was not a milkman picked up the paper—no one touched it but myself—I distinctly
saw the paper go from the prisoner's hand—it fell directly against my foot.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months. (See New Court, Wednesday.)
MESSRS. CLERK. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS KELLY . (policeman, H 130). I produce a certificate—(Read: At this Court, June, 1855, George Saunders was convicted for having counterfeit coin in his possession, and was sentenced to be confined eighteen months)—I was present, the prisoner is the man.
WILLIAM THOMAS . (police sergeant, F 17). I went with Radford to the Goldsmiths' Arms, Bedfordbury, on the 13th Feb., between 1 and 2 o'clock—I found the prisoner in the tap room, and there was a man named William Green, who I believe is his brother (seenextcase;) they were standing up—there were other persons in the room, but not close to them—I went up to the prisoner and told Radford to search him, which he did in my presence—(I only knew the prisoner by the name of Green)—I saw Radford take from his pocket several paper parcels containing counterfeit half crowns—I opened them, and saw they contained coins—these are them—there was 16s. 10d. in good money found on the prisoner—I told Radford to search William Green, and he made a plunge towards the fireplace, and threw a paper parcel towards the fire—it fell back on the floor—there were three parcels, they burst as they fell on the floor—I picked up the contents of the whole of them—this is the money—I had watched William Green and the prisoner, I saw them first in Bedfordbury, six or seven yards from the house—they walked close together; I cannot say that I saw them speak, they went into the house, and I went in directly afterwards—in the parcels were eighteen shillings, three half crowns, and one crown piece, which I picked off the floor—I took both the men to the station—I searched the prisoner, and found in one of his coat pockets twenty florins—there was a coal box in the tap room near which the prisoner and William Green were standing—I went back to the tap room, and looked in that coal box; I found in it three paper parcels, containing ninety-eight shillings and eight crown pieces, all counterfeit.
Prisoner. Q. Do you say I was in company with somebody else? A. Yes; I watched you six or seven yards—there were other persons in the tap room, but none that I knew—you made no resistance after you were searched—I did not see you throw anything away, or attempt it—when I told Radford to search William Green he resisted, and when I went and assisted him, this prisoner attempted to escape—he had got a stick and attempted to strike me, but I avoided it—there was time for him to throw anything into the coal box without my seeing him.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . Here are ten half crowns taken from the 'prisoner, all bad; five of them are of the date, 1818, from one mould—two of 1820, from one mould, and two of 1849, from one mould—these twenty florins, taken from his coat pocket, are all counterfeit; eleven are from one mould, and nine from another—these ninety—eight shillings, and eight crowns, found in the coal box, are all bad; five of the crowns are of one mould—these shillings
are from six different moulds, several from each mould—the money thrown away by William Green is all bad; the three half crowns are from the same mould as the five of 1818—the crown is from the same mould as those found in the coal box, and five of the shillings are from the same mould as twenty-eight found in the coal box.
Prisoner's Defence. I admit having the pieces found on me; the remainder I know nothing about; there were seven or eight persons in the room; several were playing at cards, and some of them asked me to take care of this money, which I did, and I should have returned them, when the policeman came in and took me; I was aware what they were, and that I was running a great risk, but I was completely entrapped into it; the persons who gave the information were the persons who gave me these things to hold; I only state this in hopes of having some mitigation of my sentence; as to uttering the coins, I had not the most remote idea in the world; I wish the policeman to state whether there were men playing at cards.
GUILTY . Aged 41.— Ten Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM THOMAS . (police sergeant, F 17). On 13th Feb., about half past 1 o'clock, I was in the Goldsmiths' Arms, in Bedfordbury—Radford was with me—I saw the prisoner there—I desired Radford to search him—the prisoner thrust his hands into his pockets, and made his way to the fireplace, and threw a paper parcel out of his hand—it struck against the fireplace, and bounced back into the room—it contained eighteen shillings, three half crowns, and a crown piece, all counterfeit.
Prisoner's Defence I know nothing about those things at all; on Friday, 13th Feb., I went into the house, between 1 and 2 o'clock, to have my dinner, and while I was waiting the officers entered the room; they spoke to the other prisoner, and began to search him; if I had anything of the kind in my possession, I had plenty of time and opportunity to have got rid of them while they were searching the other prisoner; after they had done searching him, one of them said to the other, "See what that young man has got;" I asked them, "What for?" and, without giving me any answer, or telling me what they were, one of them caught hold of me, and thrust one of his hands into my trowsers pocket; I tried to get away from him, and then the other one caught hold of me, and we had a straggle; they say that I rushed to the fireplace; that is true, for there is no other place in the room that I could get to while I was struggling with the officers; if there was a paper thrown down, as he states, it must have been thrown down by some other person that was in the room, for there were eight or nine other persons present in the taproom.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Two Years.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
Holborn. On 9th Feb. the prisoner came, and had a glass of ale—he gave me a sovereign; I gave him a new half sovereign in change, and three half crowns—he said, "I can pay for the ale in halfpence if you will give me the full change"—I gave him the full change, another half crown, and he then wanted change for the half sovereign—I had not change there—Mr. Britton came in, looked at the half sovereign, and said it was bad—that was not the half sovereign I had given to the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you been in your master's service? A. About three months—we have many customers—I had been attending there the whole of that day—this was about 9 o'clock in the evening—my master had been serving that day—the money that was taken from the customers was all put into the same till—the gold is separate from the silver—there are two little bowls in the till, one for gold, one for silver—my master had not gone out five minutes before the prisoner came—there were two gentlemen in the house, who were there before the prisoner came in—they are customers of my master—they were in when my master came back, and heard what he said to the prisoner—I did not say, when my master came in, that the prisoner changed the half sovereign—those other gentlemen stood close to the prisoner—they are not here—I did not hear the prisoner ask that the police might be sent for; he did not ask to be searched—my master told the policeman to search him—I did not hear the prisoner say, "Search me"—I was not far from him—he might have said it, and I not heard it—a good many other people were in the bar when the policeman came in—my master spoke to the prisoner about ringing the changes, and he said he had not done so, it was the same that I gave him—he did not say, "I am a respectable man; I will give you my name and address"—he wanted ten minutes to do that.
Q. What, ten minutes to think of his name? A. Yes—he said he lived at No. 15, Exeter-street—I did not hear him say he was a traveller—no one, besides my master and myself, had been serving customers—my master takes money out of the till at different times during the day—it might have been a quarter of an hour before this that my master had been to the till—he took out 10s. in silver—when he takes money in that way he does not give me any account—he puts the money into a glass case—he does not make any memorandum of it on a paper or slate—if he puts any money in he does not make any memorandum.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Were the other persons tradesmen in the neighbourhood? A. Yes—they were sitting down—the prisoner was standing up—I had noticed the half sovereign before I gave it him—it was a new one—I had taken it that day, and put it into the till—it was the only half sovereign there.
EDWARD BRITTON . I am landlord of the Kent Hotel; I attend to the till and the money in it. I remember the prisoner being there—I had been to the till about five minutes before he was there—I noticed one half sovereign in it, which was good—I left the 'bar for about five minutes—the last witness was to attend to it in my absence—when I returned I heard some talk about change—the last witness said the gentleman wanted smaller change for the half sovereign she had given him—I picked it up, and it struck me directly that it was bad—I can swear it was not the half sovereign which had been in my till just before—I told the prisoner he had been ringing the changes—he said that he had not—I told him unless he would give me his address I would give him in charge—he refused for some time, and wanted me to give him ten minutes to go out, and said
that he would return and give me his address—I declined that—an officer came, and the prisoner gave his address, No. 15, Exeter-street, Strand, and his name, 0. Stauffer—I accommodated him with pen and ink, and he wrote it down—this is it—I have been there, and they know nothing of him, more than his calling there—it is a very low house in appearance.
Cross-examined. Q. Did the persons know him? A. Yes; he required ten minutes to go away and bring his address back with him—I think I have made that statement before to day; to the policeman and the parties present—they were customers of mine—when the policeman was sent for, I said something about wishing the prisoner to be searched—the prisoner did not express his willingness to be searched—he did not say, "Search me"—the policeman said that he had not power to search him then—I went with him to the station—we had taken an average sum of money that day; a few pounds—I had taken money out of the till—I had not taken any gold out of the place where this was—I had not taken a half sovereign that day out of the till—I had not taken any gold out of the till; I had put in silver and gold; 4l. or 5l., or something like that—that was early in the evening—T had not taken any money out of the till for about an hour On two before I went out—I had gone to the till to give change—I had given change that evening for gold—I had to go and change a cheque, and the half sovereign that was in the till I had got in change—I gave the gentleman the rest of the gold—this half sovereign I had put into the till five or ten minutes before the prisoner came in.
MR. BODKIN. Q. On what house was the cheque? A. On the Union Bank; I received it between 8 and 9 o'clock—I got the money for it at Henniker, Abbott, and Co.—I am sure the half sovereign was one I received for that cheque, and it was good—I am sure this half sovereign which the prisoner gave is not the half sovereign I put into the till.
COURT. Q. Was the gentleman you took the cheque from in your house? A. Yes; I took the cheque and gave him the full change—the waiter was serving him—the change included the half sovereign—the gentleman paid for the refreshment to me and to the barmaid—he paid the half sovereign and a sovereign—the barmaid took the money up—the cheque was 7l. 10i.—the change was given to the prisoner out of the case and the till—the half sovereign was given to the prisoner from the case—we never keep gold in the till.
MR. SLEIGH. to ELIZA SHAD. Q. Where did you take the half sovereign from which you gave the prisoner? A. Out of the glass case—not out of the till.
COURT. Q. What are those bowls in the till that you spoke of? A. One for halfpence, one for silver—there is a third bowl, in which we sometimes keep sixpences, and sometimes fourpenny pieces—I took the silver from the till—I put the half sovereign in the case—the gentleman who paid for the luncheon gave me the half sovereign, and a sovereign—I took them up and put them into the glass case.
CHARLES WALKER . (police sergeant, E 62). I took the prisoner and received this half sovereign—he gave his address, No. 15, Exeter-street, Strand—I have been there; the landlord did not know him—many people live in the house—when we got to Coram-street, I heard something jink on the pavement—I had not time to search for it, as there were so many people following him—I saw the prisoner put his hand to his right hand pocket several times.
Cross-examined. Q. What do you mean by saying that at the house
they did not know the prisoner? A. They said that he had called there several times, but they did not know anything about him; he did not live there.
GUILTY .** Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, March 4th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Rt Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Justice ERLE.; Mr. Baron BRAMWELL.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Erle and the Third Jury.
393. GEORGE EDWIN SELBY was indicted for stealing, whilst employed under the Post Office, a post letter containing 1 half sovereign and 4 shillings; the moneys of Her Majesty's Postmaster General: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 11.— Confined Six Months, and then Confined Five Years in a Reformatory.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 46.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
396. MIALL MEAGHER was indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a warrant for the delivery of goods; also, for a like offence; also, for unlawfully obtaining goods by false pretences: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Eight Years Penal Servitude.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. and MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
MARK BENJAMIN BENHAM . I am managing clerk to Mr. Jones, an attorney. In May, 1856, I took a house at the corner of Finsbury-square—I entered into an agreement with Dr. Winn; it was in writing—I was to live in the house, and he was to have two rooms on the ground floor, one back bed room on the second floor, and a small room in the basement—he was to carry on his profession there as a physician, but his family was not to reside there—the bed room that he occupied was on the same floor as my bed room—previous to 29th Sept. there had been a great many disputes between us—Tinley is his servant, and lives in the house—on 29th Dec., at near a quarter to 12 o'clock at night, I was going up to my bed room—I had reached the landing of my bed room, and was about a foot or eighteen inches in my room; the door was open, and I was just in the act of entering—I had a wrapper hanging on my left arm, and my hat and a chamber candlestick, with a lighted candle, in my right hand—when I was about twelve or eighteen inches in my room, Dr. Winn ran after me, and struck me twice or thrice on the back of the neck—that was whilst my back was towards him—they were violent blows, struck with the fist—he then caught hold of me by the stock and shirt, and pulled me round, and kept beating me about the shoulders and head—at the time he struck me,
I dropped all that I had on my arms; there was a gas light over my bed room door—at this time my wife was on the next flight of stairs—my daughters were also on the stairs, going up with my wife to see the younger children—when he dragged me round, he caught hold of me by the back of the hair; I struck up, and tried to get away from him; he held me by the back of the hair, and held my head down, and called out, "Tinley, Tinley!"—Tinley replied, "I am coming, I will give him a pill, I will give him a pill"—he said it twice—Tinley came and struck me with something on the head three or four times, such as I never felt in my life before—I said, "My God, Sarah, they are murdering me; they have either got a life preserver or some deadly weapon, for it is not the hand of a man that I have been struck with"—the blows stunned me, and an immense quantity of blood began to flow; I was saturated with blood in a few minutes—I lost my senses for some time, not very long; I found myself in the middle of the bed room a minute or two after—I was taken in a cab to Mr. Jenkins, my medical man; he lives in Great Prescott—street, and has attended my family ten or twelve years—I had my wounds dressed.
Cross-examined by MR. SEBJEANT PARRY. (with MR. SLEIGH.) Q. My friend Serjeant Ballantine said that you had been convicted some years ago? A. Yes, fourteen years ago; it was for conspiracy to defraud—the sentence was eighteen calendar months, from which I subsequently received a free pardon—I did not serve more than a year—after that I received Her Majesty's free pardon; I have not got it; it was shown to me when I was discharged, but not given to me—I swear that—if I am not mistaken, it had the signature of Her Majesty to it, but I am not sure of it, it is so many years ago—it was shown to me by the Governor, Captain Groves—I never saw Her Majesty write, but it was a signature I believe to be hers—I occupy as tenant under Dr. Winn; I believe Dr. Winn has a lease of the house for thirteen years—there has been some discussion about it—there has been no anxiety on my part, not the least—I wanted to purchase his lease when I first entered the house, but when he said he did not want to dispose of it I gave up all idea of it—I never ordered my family to do anything in order to drive Dr. Winn out of the house; I have expended too much money upon the house to make things uncomfortable; I have never given any directions to my family or my servants to do everything to drive Dr. Winn out of the house; I did not do so up to Christmas Day last, or three or four days before this matter occurred; I have been very unhappy in the house, in consequence of his not paying his rent, and my goods being liable to be distrained—I paid 80l. a year; the whole rent is about 100l.—I paid my rent—my father's name was Mark Benjamin, my name is Mark Benjamin Benham; I will swear that; I was married in that name nineteen years ago, by the late Dr. Herschell—I am thirty-nine years of age—up to the age of about fifteen I went by the name of Mark Benjamin; I then adopted the name of Benham—I have never been bankrupt—I was insolvent years ago; I took the benefit of the Act for 5, 084l., and I have got a release in my pocket for 5, 050l. which I have paid my creditors; there is 34l. now outstanding, and allow me to explain why I cannot pay that, because I cannot find the persons, and it is my intention to pay the money into court, and obtain a re-vesting order—it has cost me about 1, 000l. to get released—I was remanded for six months, under the 76th section, what is called a discretionary clause; it was not for any fraud; the Commissioner said I had been living at too expensive a rate, but my detaining creditor sent my discharge two or three days after I was
remanded; it may have been fourteen days, it was a short period after, I will swear it was within a month—I was but twenty-two years of age then—I owed 5, 000l. or 6, 000l.—I carried on the business of an army and navy tailor at Greenwich.
Q. Have you ever used any abusive language to Dr. Winn? A. None, to my knowledge—on the night in question Dr. Winn was in his bed room as I passed the door—I do not recollect ever having called him a swindler—I will not swear I did not, but I have no recollection of having used any such words—I may have said that he was a swindler as I was passing his door, but I have no recollection of having said it—I will not swear that I did not say it, for I had been that day to the Comptroller's office, and found that a distress was about to come in for three quarters rent—I may, as I passed the door, have called him a swindler—there was nobody in the house but my family, and Dr. Winn and Tinley—I had never called him a swindler before to my knowledge—I do not know that I have—I think I may safely swear it—I do not think I have, I will not swear it; but I do not believe that I have—I have not repeatedly called him a swindler—I do not recollect having called him a swindler at all, but I was much annoyed when I found that my things were likely to go away for rent which I had paid—I will swear that I have not repeatedly called him so—I do not remember ever having called him so; I may have said so, but not often certainly, for I had not spoken to him for a month before this happened—I have not repeatedly said to other persons that he was a swindler—I may have said that he got up two bubble companies, or was a party to them; he told me so himself of one, the Caxton—he did not use the word "bubble," but he talked of it to me—I have not told his patients when they came to the door that he was a swindler—Dr. Conquest lives next door; I do not know him particularly; I knew him by sight before this matter, as I might know any gentleman of the bar, but never to speak to him—I have never been to his house except ten years ago, when I went to consult him; never since I have been at Dr. Winn's;—my family are not on visiting terms with him—Dr. Conquest has called upon me once or twice at Mr. Jones's office since this affair; he is practising next door.
Q. Do you know whether Dr. Winn purchased the practice from Dr. Conquest? A. I was not present, but I have heard very different—I will swear that Dr. Winn has told me himself, that he did not purchase it of him; he bought his furniture of him and fixtures—Dr. Conquest formerly lived in that house—I swear solemnly that I had not had several interviews with Dr. Conquest before this matter occurred; I am not on intimate terms with Dr. Conquest—I never prevented Dr. Winn from coming home, or barred the outer door; he had a key in his pocket—I did not when he came home late one night in Nov., call out to him from the top of the stairs that he had been out to pawn his trowsers, or his coat, or anything—I might have said he had been to a pawnbroker's—I do not think I called out anything else—I was in bed when he rang at the bell—I got out of bed—I believe I called out to him from the top of the stairs, that he had been to a pawnbroker's—I do not believe I said he was a swindler—I will not swear it, but I do not believe I did—I have not directed my children to make noises over Dr. Winn's head, I will swear that—Dr. Winn has not complained of their making noises, and disturbing him; that was what I complained of to him—he lives down stairs—I have not told my children to make noises above his head to annoy him—to my knowledge they have not repeatedly done so—I am managing clerk to Mr. William Jones, a solicitor—I
am also a discounter, and have been so seven or eight years—on the night in question, Dr. Winn came out of his bed room in his shirt, trowsers, and boots—I mean to represent that I have told the truth in all that I have stated about his holding me, and that he overpowered me—he had not any weapon in his hand.
Q. Did you not, as Dr. Winn came out of his room, turn round and deliberately strike him a blow on the eye? A. No; I could not have done so—I did not—he ran down stairs when he heard my family cry "Murder!" and he heard the police breaking in, and I am told that he said to the policeman that he would charge me—what he said was, "I will charge him"—they both ran away after they had assaulted me.
Q. When he cried out to his servant, "Tilney! Tilney!" were you not holding him on the ground and strangling him, or attempting to do so? A. On my solemn oath he was standing as upright as I am now, and he was holding me down by the back of my hair—I represent that solemnly—Dr. Winn had a black eye, but he has always discolored eyes, you must understand; I do not mean it offensively—(Dr. Winn, who wore coloured spectacles, was here requested to remove them)—I do not mean that his eyes were only like that; his left eye was black—I saw that next morning at the police court, I can explain how it happened.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. We may as well know? A. No doubt I struck up in order to get away from him, and I must have struck him in the eye—I have no doubt at all of it—the conviction for conspiracy took place more than fourteen years ago—it was a prosecution by my stepfather, mother, and sister; I have never spoken to them since—I brought the facts to the attention of the Crown, and received a free pardon—I had an uncle named Benham; he carried on business in Jermyn-street, St. James's—I did not carry on that business after him; he died before I went to Greenwich—after the remand in the Insolvent Court, the petitioning creditor withdrew his opposition, and discharged me, and since that time I have paid l, 000l., and obtained a release from all my creditors—when I went up stairs on the night in question, Dr. Winn was in his room—I did not see him as I passed—his bed room is on the same flight as mine—I believe his door was shut—my last quarter's rent was due on Christmas day; this occurred on the 29th Dec.; I had paid my rent on the morning of the 26th—Dr. Winn holds a lease from the City of London—I have a good deal of furniture and seizable property in the house.
Q. What is this about the pawnbroker and the breeches? A. I have repeatedly applied to Dr. Winn after 12 o'clock to allow' the street door to be fastened by the bolts, for I do not deem it safe to go to bed leaving it on the mere latch; he has refused time after time to allow it—one night, I did not know that he was out, we went to bed soon after 12 o'clock, and by the merest accident we bolted the door; when he came home he rang the bell violently; I was in bed at the time, it caused me to jump out of bed, my servants, and my little babes; I desired my son to run down stairs, and he opened the door; but Dr. Winn had broken the bell before he could arrive—I was angry, because I thought it was a fire—it was on that occasion that I said something about the pawnbroker's—we were all dreadfully excited; we thought the house was on fire, in consequence of the violent ringing—it was a very large night bell, and he rang it incessantly for several minutes until it broke.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Has there ever been a distress for rent in the house? A. No; but I believe there have been other things in—I will not
pledge my oath that there has been an execution in the house, but I have heard it.
SARAH BENHAM . I am the prosecutor's wife. On the night this assault occurred upon my husband, I was going upstairs to bed with him—I was behind him—my two daughters and my son were also going up with us—we were all behind my husband—we were going up the nursery stairs—we passed Dr. Winn's bed room door—it was closed—I was at that time behind my husband—my son sleeps up stairs—he is sixteen years old—my daughters sleep in the next room to mine, on the same floor—my husband was going into his room as we were going up the nursery stairs to see the younger children—I was close behind my husband at the time he passed Dr. Winn's door—he did not use the word "swindler," or anything of that sort; I never heard him utter a word—as I was going up the nursery stairs, I heard the doctor open his door, and he rushed out, and fairly jumped upon my husband's back—he struck him several blows on the back of his neck; and with that, my husband let the articles fall that he had in his hands—Dr. Winn then pulled him round, and struck him in front, and in dragging him round, he tore the wristband of his shirt off, and threw it on the ground—by some means he caught hold of the back of his neck, and my husband hit him up in this manner to beat him off—the doctor then called out, "Tinley, Tinley, come and help me fight this man!"—Tinley immediately answered, "I am coming, I will give him a pill;" and I saw him come up the stairs—I saw something shine, I thought he had a gun in his hand—when he came up to my husband, the doctor had my husband's head down in this position, by the back of his head, holding his head back—Tinley came up, and struck him immediately two or three times on the back of his head, and I then perceived that it was a poker—my husband called out to me to come immediately—I did not call out, I ran away to cry for assistance—I did not see my husband again until he came down into the hall—during the whole of this proceeding, neither my husband nor Dr. Winn were on the ground—when I saw him in the hall the police had come in—he was then bleeding dreadfully; his face and neck were covered with blood—he was taken off in a cab to the police station, and afterwards to Mr. Jenkins—he was in a dreadful state when he came back—I could scarcely keep life in him, he was swooning continually—I wanted to persuade him to lie down, but he would not; I was obliged to bathe his hands and face with vinegar—that lasted till we went to the police court—two or three days before this, Dr. Winn put his fist in my face, and called me a very improper word, and said, "I know something of your husband, and I will do for him"—he called me a common prostitute.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe you have never mentioned that before in the hearing of Dr. Winn? A. Not in Court; I have mentioned it to several persons before to day, repeatedly, but not in Dr. Winn's presence—I never charged him with it, but he knows it is true—I told my husband that he had put his fist in my face; and every one in the house knew it—I did not think it necessary to mention it at the station—I did not, in Oct. and Nov. last, repeatedly call Dr. Winn a swindler—I do not make use of such language as that—I will swear that I have never called him a swindler; I have often said that I considered his conduct very disgraceful, nothing further than that—I have not repeatedly said to persons who have come there, that he was a swindler, and connected with bubble companies—I never spoke to any one connected with the doctor—I have never directed my children to annoy him; I have never
placed dirty things in the passage——I have not seen my children do it; nor had them taken back—I have babies in the nursery, and they play some-times, nothing more than that—there have not been boys of thirteen or fourteen years of age hammering and knocking over Dr. Winn's head, I have but one son at home, he has not done so—Dr. Winn's son has annoyed us; we were too frightened to annoy him—I have not repeatedly said, in the hearing of other persons, two or three months before Christmas last, that Dr. Winn was the greatest swindler on the face of the earth—I can swear most positively that I never uttered such a word—I have not repeatedly said to Tinley that I and my husband meant to turn the doctor out of the house—I never uttered such a word—I have never said that we meant to turn him out of the house, and that we were all but masters of the lease; nothing of the kind; I said we had a right to do as we liked in our own house, nothing further—I have not said that my husband Was determined to turn him out of the house.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You have young children up stain in the nursery; what ages are they? A. The eldest is nine and the youngest is four—my son Albert is sixteen, and I have two daughters—it was my son and my two daughters who were going up stairs with us; the younger children occupy the nursery—they do not play about in the rooms below, they always keep in the nursery—sometimes they come down for half an hour into the dining room—they were the only children in the house—I have another son at Paris.
ALBERT BENHAM . I am the prosecutor's son. On the night of 29th Dec, I was going up to bed at the same time as my father and mother—when we got on the floor of the bedrooms, my father was behind me—I sleep on the third floor; as I was going up, Dr. Winn rushed upon my father without any provocation whatever; he took hold of him sideways, in the front, took hold of him by the back of the head, and drew him down in that manner, and held him down for a time, and called Tinley; he drew him out of his room, he was about two or three feet in his room—Tinley came; as he wag coming up, he said, "I am coming, I will give him a pill"—he repeated those words twice; he came up with some weapon and struck my father on the head, and blood flowed; I could not tell exactly what he had in his hand—I directly ran to mamma's bedroom, smashed a couple of windows, and made an alarm; I called out, "Police!"—the police came; but before that I asked mamma for the rattle, and went into my sister's room and sprang it—on the afternoon of that day, I was in the library with young Somellera, and my two sisters; I was getting up a few sentences of poetry with master Somellera, and rose from my seat to recite them, when Dr. Winn, and his servant, Tinley, suddenly rushed up and opened the door—Dr. Winn told Tinley to come in, and made use of a bad expression, and said, "Take hold of the young vagabond by the throat; they are making a noise, and I will not allow a parcel of strangers in my house"—Tinley came and took hold of me by the throat—my sisters went down and told papa that Dr. Winn and Tinley were fighting me, and papa came up; Dr. Winn asked him to fight, and papa replied, "I am not a fighting man"—as they were going down stairs I heard Tinley say, "You shall suffer before the night is out," that meant my pa, because it was said to him—Dr. Winn replied, "Yes, he shall."
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I suppose when Dr. Winn came up and asked your father to fight, he had his coat off? A. No—he wetted his hands, and put himself in a fighting attitude, squaring up to him—he refused to fight, went down stairs, and Dr. Winn followed ham—Dr.
Winn did not strike him, he went and put his fist in his face, in a menacing way; this was about 9 o'clock in the evening—Joseph Somellera and my sisters were present—I mentioned this at Worship-street police court—Dr. Winn was complaining of our making a noise over his head—young Somellera is a Mexican boy, a companion of mine, living with Mrs. Bedal, in the next house—Dr. Winn complained of a noise going on, he did not say who made it; we were not stamping on the floor, and kicking up a row—I have not often done so, never—I do not say we were quite quiet, because a ruler happened to fall off the table, and it made a noise on the floor; it did not fall more than once, I am quite sure of that; my sisters and Somellera were sitting down, and I was standing up, reciting the few sentences that I had written—I was not kicking my feet on the floor, and knocking on the floor with the ruler, for the purpose of annoying Dr. Winn; I have never been told to do so—Dr. Winn has not repeatedly complained to me of making a noise, not over head, nor on the same floor, never—he has complained two or three times of my making a noise and annoying him—I have not done so, never on purpose—I do not know a Dr. Godfrey, a friend of Dr. Winn's—I never said to any friend of Dr. Winn's that he was a swindler, never in my life, or to any one—I am sixteen years old—I live at home—I go to school—I know a coachman of the name of Philip, I do not know that his name is Wall—I have never heard Dr. Winn complain of my putting dirty things in the passage at the time his patients were coming; he has never complained to me—I have not done it, I never put a slop pail there, or a pail out of the yard, or littered the old chairs about the passage—he has complained of it to my pa, only once—I was sitting on a chair, but making no noise; pa was in the room, in the parlour opposite—I never said to Philip, the coachman, that my pa was determined to get Dr. Winn out of the house—I never said that we meant to turn him out, and ruin his practice—I never said to Tinley, in my elder brother's presence, that my pa was determined to get the lease of the house, and that he had better leave Dr. Winn's employment—I never said to Tinley, "Papa, when he is tipsy, is very violent, and he is twice as strong as Dr. Winn"—I will swear that, never anything of the sort—I deny saying so at any time—I never told Tinley it would be better for him to leave Dr. Winn's service, and that my father was a richer man than Dr. Winn; I will swear that I never said such a thing—I have never called Dr. Winn a swindler—I have never said so to the little Mexican boy, nor have my sisters—I never said to Dr. Godfrey, or any gentleman, when I opened the door to him, "I suppose you are one of his pals, and want your supper."
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You have been asked whether you said something about your father when he was drunk; have you ever seen your father drunk? A. Never in my life—I go to school at King's College, this makes my second term; before that I was at the City of London School—when I was sitting on the chair in the passage, I was not doing anything to annoy Dr. Winn, or anybody else.
JOSEPH SOMELLERA . I am between thirteen and fourteen years of age; I live at No. 14, Finsbury-square, next door to Mr. Benham's, I go in and play with young master Benham; I come from Mexico, my guardian has the care of me. On 29th Dec. I was in the library with Albert Benham and his sister, when the two prisoners came up; I was not making a noise—as they went down stairs I heard Tinley say, "You shall suffer before the night is out," and Dr. Winn replied, "Yes, you shall."
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Dr. Winn has complained of
your making a noise a little, has be not? A. Not to me; he has come in when I have been in the room—I and young Benham were not dancing about, and making a noise, nothing of the kind; Benham got out of his chair, and was just going to explain a little poetry, and Dr. Winn and his man came up—I do not think we had made any noise to disturb them; but if we had, and his man servant had come up, and told us to keep quiet, we would have kept quiet with great pleasure.
JULIA BENHAM . I am fourteen years old. On the night of 29th Dec I was going up to bed with my parents—just as papa had entered his room, we were going up the nursery stairs, and Dr. Winn rushed out of his room, caught bold of papa at the back of his neck, and struck him two or three times, and he called out, "Tinley, Tinley, come and help me fight this man"—Tinley said, "I am coming, I will give him pill"—he came up with a poker, and struck papa three or four times on the head—I was in the library in the afternoon, with my sister, when the little Mexican boy and my brother were there.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did your father and Dr. Winn struggle together? A. Yes, they were not thrown together on the ground—I am quite sure they were not at all on the ground.
ISAAC WAKEFIELD . (policeman, G 133). About 12 o'clock on the night in question I was on duty in Finsbury-square—I heard a cry of "Murder!" and a rattle spring—I knocked at the door of Dr. Winn's house; it appeared to me to be opened by Dr. Winn—I found him in the passage—he said, "I will give him in charge, I will give him in charge"—in two or three minutes I saw Mr. Benham come down stairs; his face and head were covered with blood, and all the front of his shirt—I saw a little blood on Dr. Winn's lips—I could not see whether there was any wound; I saw nothing, only the blood—another constable took them both to the station in a cab—Mr. Benham told me what had happened—we found nothing up stairs; I found a poker in the back room, on the ground floor, which I have here—that was one of Dr Winn's rooms—we knocked at that door; it appeared to be locked—after two or three minutes it was opened by Tinley; I told him if he did not open it, I should break it open—the poker was in the fireplace—there were several spots of blood on it, they appeared to be fresh.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you in the street when the door was opened? A. I was on the steps against the door—I knocked for admittance—I heard somebody calling out, "Police!" I knocked two or three times, and then the door appeared to be opened by Dr. Winn; I saw him immediately the door was opened—I saw next morning that he had a black eye.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. When you said both were taken into custody, do you mean the prosecutor and prisoner? A. No, the two prisoners.
GEORGE MARSH . (policeman, G 179). I went to the house in consequence of the outcries I heard, and saw the prosecutor, Dr. Winn, and Tinley, in the hall—I was first asked by Mr. Benham to take the prisoner into custody—I asked him the circumstances of the case—he said he had been almost murdered with some weapon—I went up to Mr. Winn, and told him he' must go with me to the station—he then said that he gave Mr. Benham into custody—I said, "You must go with me to the station, and you can explain the matter there"—Mr. Benham was covered with blood, and quite in a fainting state, with his back against the wall.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not Dr. Winn charge Benham with having struck him first, and give him into custody for the assault? A. No.
GEORGE EDWARD JENKINS . I am a medical man. I have attended Mr. Benham for ten or twelve years—he was brought to me in a cab on the night of the 29th—I examined his head, and found two wounds on the scalp; the larger one two inches and three eighths, and the other one inch and two eighths, and three inches apart; the larger wound had penetrated the scalp; it was exactly where the junction of the bones takes place—he has been under my care ever since, until within this fortnight; the wounds were not necessarily severe in this case, being applied to a man of good constitution and temperate habits; erysipelas or concussion might have ensued, but it healed favourably from the first—I think a poker might have inflicted such a wound.
Cross-examined. Q. He is permanently recovered, I hope? A. I hope so.
(A great number of witnesses deposed to the excellent character of Dr. Winn.)
NOT GUILTY .
(There was another indictment for a common assault, upon which MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. offered no evidence. )
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and M'INTYRE. conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT WOODWARD . I am the collector of the Poor and Church rates of the parish of St. Andrew Undershaft, in the City of London. I had paid some money on account of that parish to the prisoner Paul before 18th Nov. last, 200l. up to that date, and on that day a further sum of 90l., making 290l.—he was to pay it into the bankers', Smith, Payne, and Smith—one of the partners of that firm is treasurer to the City of London Union—Paul told me he would give me a receipt from the bankers; he brought it to me—I suppose that is the receipt (produced); I do not know; I have no mark on it; I will not swear to it—I handed the receipt that I received from Paul to Mr. Thornton, at a meeting of the Board of Guardians—I know the prisoner Hawes—he was a clerk in the office of the union—that is at No. 51, St. Mary Axe.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. (for Hawes). Q. Did you say he was clerk to the guardians or to Paul? A. I believe him to be a clerk to the Board of Guardians; I have seen him writing papers for the Board of Guardians—the front counting house is divided off into stalls, one of which is occupied by Mr. Hawes—that is not in the same department of the office as that which is occupied by Paul—Paul's office is at the back of the house, and this is at the front of the house—Hawes would be principally directed by Paul what to do, I suppose; it was his duty to write parochial statistics and accounts, and anything that might be directed by Paul.
COURT. Q. Did you know anything about it more than any one that would go and find him there? A. I did not.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was your attendance at the office then to pay money only? A. Well, gossip more than anything else; I have frequently seen Hawes there writing papers—I do not know how long he has been so employed; occasionally, for many months, I should say—it has been my habit, during the last two or three years, to pay the money into, Paul's hands at the office of the union—I do not know whether it would be his duty to pay the money into the bank immediately; I had no right to
demand that of him; lie was kind enough to say that he would send it to the bankers for me—it was the next day after I paid him the sum that made up the 290l., that he handed me the receipt—I have paid money into Smith, Payne, and Smith's, myself—I paid 100l. a fortnight ago, since that time—I am not in the habit of paying it to any particular clerk; the clerk that I usually paid it to in times past, I did not pay to in the last instance—I only know Mr. Crosier, whose signature purports to be to this receipt, by meeting him here; I did not know him before.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You have seen Hawes engaged in the union business? A. I have; I supposed him to be so—on all former occasions, when I paid money at St. Mary Axe, I have had receipts of this kind—I should think that habit of receiving money there, and taking receipts, would be known to Hawes; I do not know that it was.
STEPHEN HOBSON HEATH . I am one of the guardians of the City of London Union. Paul was assistant clerk to the board, and had been for some years—Hawes filled the situation of an occasional assistant to Paul; he was not an officer of the board; he was engaged by Paul, and paid by Paul—I was in the office when this forged receipt was brought there by Mr. Woodward; I saw it—this is it—Mr. Thornton was there at the time—he is chairman to the board—it was handed to him—I put my initials to it.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known Hawes as being employed by Paul? A. Personally, I have only known him for twelve months; I know as a fact that he has been employed longer, but I have only been a member of the board twelve months—during that time I do not think he has been almost continually employed by Paul at the offices of the union; I think, from questions we put to Hawes in the course of the investigation, it has been on the average about two or three days a week, during the whole of the time; he would be a week or two there constantly, and then he would be absent for a week or two—he was occupied during the days he was there in writing whatever Paul might desire him to write—I have seen him there engaged in writing—I never knew him to be other than a well conducted man—there was not a serious discussion among the guardians as to whether Hawes should be prosecuted for this offence—I believe there was not a difference of opinion upon the subject; this matter has been discussed at the board in my presence—it was discussed after this matter was investigated before the Magistrate.
EDWIN STONE CROSIER . I am a cashier in the banking house of Smith, Payne, and Smith—Mr. Samuel George Smith is Treasurer of the City of London Union—the signature to this receipt is not mine, nor the filling up; it does not bear the slightest resemblance to my writing—it is one of the forms provided by the board—I sign my name E. S. Crosier—there is no S. to the receipt—there is no other clerk in our bank of my name.
GEORGE HOOPER . I was a clerk to the City of London Union—I am acquainted with Hawes's handwriting; I believe this receipt to be his writing, the whole of the filling—up, and the signature; it is in his ordinary handwriting, not at all altered. (Receipt read: "City of London Union.—Received 19th Nov., 1856, of the Overseers of the Poor of the Parish of St. Andrew Undershaft, the sum of 290l. towards the relief of the poor thereof, and towards defraying such of the general expense of the union as is legally chargeable on the said parish.—For Samuel George Smith, treasurer. E. Crosier.")
Cross-examined. Q. I believe when this receipt was produced before the Magistrate, the prisoner voluntarily said, "It is my writing; I have
nothing to conceal; I admit, at once, it is my writing"? A. He did, at once, and I believe him.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Was that suggested to him by anybody? A. I believe not; he had a professional adviser there, Mr. Tomlinson.
(Hawes's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I did not do it feloniously in any way whatever; and I disguised my band in no way whatever; I was called suddenly from my desk by Mr. Paul into his private office, and he placed the paper before me, and be wished me to write, 'Received the sum of 290l. from St. Andrew Undershaft,' and sign the name E. Crosier; I wrote it in the ordinary style, not thinking for a moment what I was doing; and no other words passed, and I left the office.")
COURT. to GEORGE HOOPER. Q. Is it the practice of the different parishes to pay their money to the offices of the guardians, and then for the persons there to pay into the bankers? A. It is not the ordinary practice; the ordinary practice is to pay direct to the bankers, but it is occasionally done in this way; the receipt is obtained from the bankers; we supply the bankers with these receipts; they are kept in our office; they would give the receipt to the collector who brought the money, as a voucher—several of the collectors were on terms of intimacy with Mr. Paul, and they have given him the money to take to the treasurer—I know that it was the practice to give such collectors a receipt as if from the bankers—I am not aware who gave the receipt, or who paid in the money to the bankers, I have never done it—the collector ought, in strictness, to take the money himself to the treasurer; it was not the business of Paul or anybody else to do it, but if Paul went, he got the receipt and gave it to the collector; if Hawes went he would do so—I have not known any instance of his going there of my own knowledge—I think he was occasionally employed by Paul to do so, but I do not know it of my own knowledge—I say so because be acted as his clerk, to go to his private bankers, and do his private transactions.
ROBERT WOODWARD . re-examined. I have given Paul money before, several times—I have always got a receipt; I dare say Paul has given me that receipt—he has always given it me—he must always have given it, because I produced it at the audit; I did not get it from anybody else; I always got it from him—I have always got it from the hands of Paul—Hawes never gave it me—I never gave Hawes money when Paul was not there; I have always given it to Paul; I have given sometimes, to Eldred for Mr. Paul, but never to Hawes—Hawes might have been there when I have given Paul money, but he would not know what I was doing; if he was there; it was privately given; it was given doubled up—if Hawes hap—pened to be there, which I think he was not, he would not know what he gave me.
PAUL— GUILTY .
HAWES— NOT GUILTY .
(No farther sentence was passed upon Paul beyond that upon his conviction last Session, See page 430).
Before Mr. Justice Erle.
MR. HORRY. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN DUHM . I live at No. 6, Pelham-street, Spitalfields. On the morning of 17th Feb., about 2 o'clock, I was in High—street, Whitechapel—I saw the two prisoners, another man, and a woman—Sadlier spoke to me, and asked me what I had been insulting his girl for; I said I had not seen her or him before—he then said he would punch my b—eye out;
with that I stepped back about a yard, and Lee seized me by the throat, and nearly strangled me, holding me in a bending position, while Sadliexr tore my waistcoat open, and put his hand into one of my waistcoat pockets; there was nothing in it—he then made a snatch at my watch guard, but fortunately the police came up at the time, and he threw me on the ground, and they ran away, one one way, and one another; I called out, "Police!"—the officer brought back Sadlier to me—I knew him as one of the persons directly.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. (for Lee). Q. Where did the woman come from? A. She was with them; they came up to me in company, all four together—I was coming home; I had been to see a friend home, a young man of the name of Fink previous to that; I had been at a public house—I cannot say how long I had been there, I think about three quarters of an hour elapsed after I had left the public house—I was not intoxicated, I was perfectly sober—before that I had been at Mr. Drew's public house, in Church—street, Shoreditch—I dare say I was there from about half past 9 till past 12 o'clock—I did drink something there, but I was not intoxicated—I came away with Fink, and went into another house close against my own house—I dare say I staid in the other house about three quarters of an hour—my friend was with me all the evening—I had left him when I met these persons—when I came out of that public house, I went to see my Mend home; that was in some street in the Commercial—road—I had been drinking with him and other persons all the evening, but at the time I was almost a teetotaler—the prisoners did not at all appear to have been drinking—I had a watch and guard with me, and some money with me—I have lost nothing at all.
MR. HORRY. Q. You were in a condition to observe what took place when you met the prisoners? A. Yes, I was; I do not wish to hurt Sadlier, on account of his aged mother.
MARGARET ENGLISH . I am a shoe binder, and live at No. 8, Richard-street, Stepney. About 2 o'clock on the morning of 17th Feb. I wag in High—street, Whitechapel—I saw the two prisoners go over to the prosecutor, and hold him by the neck, and hold him in a bent position; with that I ran away, I was so frightened, and did not see any more of it—I saw a third person, but he ran away—the prisoners are the men I saw.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see a woman there? A. No; there was a woman, but she ran away.
GEORGE WOODWARD . (policeman). On 17th Feb., about 2 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in High-street, Whitechapel; I saw the prisoners and another man struggling with the prosecutor in the middle of the road; just before I got up to them, they threw the prosecutor on his back, and all three ran away—I followed Sadlier, and caught him against the Red Lion and Eagle public house; I brought him back to the prosecutor, and he identified him directly—Sadlier said he had only just come out of the public house.
LAURENCE BURGESS . (policeman, H 190). On 17th Feb. I was on duty in High—street, Whitechapel; I heard the cry of "Police!" and saw Lee run across the road, and the prosecutor after him, and he had just got hold of him when I came up, and he gave him in charge for assaulting him—I followed him about ten yards; I took him into custody, and said, "What have you got to say to the charge?"—he said, "It is all right;"—at the station, after the charge was taken, he pleaded guilty, and before the Magistrate he pleaded guilty as well.
(The prisoners received a good character.) LEE— GUILTY .
SADLIER— GUILTY . Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
MR. CARTER. Conducted the Prosecution.
EDWIN WHITE . I live at No. 8, Attwell-street, Goswell-street, and am a smith's labourer at present. Last Saturday fortnight I was coming from the pay table with my wife, and was coming home—I met the prisoner underneath the passage entering into Attwell—street; she accosted me, and said she wanted to speak to me—I said I did not want to speak to her—she asked if I had any money for her—I said, "Not half a farthing"—she deliberately took a knife from underneath her shawl, made aim, and stuck it into my breast; it was in the dark, I could not see what kind of knife it was, I felt the blow—I felt the blade of the knife on the breast—I ran away direct to the station, and made a complaint there—I then went with the officer to point out the prisoner, and give her into custody—I afterwards went to Mr. Mather's, the surgeon, who dressed my wound—I had cohabited with the prisoner in 1851—I have been married about seven months—I was never married to the prisoner—her name is Honora M'Sweeney.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Have you told all that took place that night? A. I have told everything—I am quite sure of that—she did not come to me by appointment; she had left word on the Friday evening with the potman who brings the beer to our factory, that if I did not come to some arrangement with her on Saturday, she would do that which should take my life—she did not come by appointment with me—her sister was with her at the time she spoke to me and struck me—her sister never told me not to come to her house—her sister has been to me since this job happened, and asked me not to go against her—I hare not called at her house within the last eight months; I called there then on business, to see the sister, as I had just come to London—I did not go to look after the prisoner—I knew her sister in 1851, when I was in London previously, the prisoner was not at home when I called—I have been sentenced to seven years transportation; that was at Hicks's Hall, in 1851—I have been home two years, and have got an eighteen months good character (handing in a paper)—I did not come from prison seven or eight months ago, I had been at Bristol, and left there on account of slackness of work—I have never passed as the prisoner's husband since 1851—I had no private interview with her in prison—I went to see her at Brixton, on 10th July—I did not see her there as her husband—she had got the chaplain to write to my parents, and ask whether I would marry her—I did not go to the sister's house on 12th Feb. last to see her, and leave a message for her to meet me—her sister, Ann Hunter, was with her on the night in question; nothing more passed than I have stated—she asked if I had any money for her, I said, "Not half a farthing," and she stabbed me directly—no blows passed; I know nothing about what passed between her and my wife afterwards, for I ran away directly to the station; there were no blows, or any disturbance before I left the spot—I know that the prisoner has been in custody for stealing; I was not living with her then, I was undergoing my sentence.
COURT. Q. How long were you in prison? A. Three years and four months; I was then discharged—I lived with the prisoner before I was sentenced; I have not seen her since, up to July—I knew her in 1845—I lived with her at different periods from 1845 to 1851; at the time I was a bad character, except when she or I was in prison—when I came out of prison she was in prison—I saw her in Brixton prison in July—she has been out about three weeks or a month.
ABIGAIL WHITE . I am the prosecutor's wife. I was walking with him on the evening of Saturday fortnight; when we got under an archway, near Goswell-street, the prisoner and her sister came up, and accosted my husband—the prisoner asked me to stand on one side, and she went about four yards distance from me with my husband—I heard her ask him for money, or else to allow her so much a week—I did not hear what else she said—she said a great deal, but I did not hear it—I was about four yards away—she said if he did not give her money she would do something to him; it was some threatening language—I do not remember exactly what it was—he said he would not give her half a farthing, and I saw her lift her right hand, and hit my husband; I then saw him run away—I went towards home, and the prisoner accosted me—I was about five doors from the house where I live; a struggle ensued between us, and T felt the knife with her, I got a cut on the wrist with it—I do not exactly know in whose hand the, knife was then, whether hers or her sister's, for I was struggling with them both—I got it away in the struggle, I believe from the prisoner, but I was so faint, I do not know whether I dropped it, or what became of it.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to meet your husband? A. Yes; he did not know I was coming—the knife has never been found—I do not know how I got rid of it—the prisoner's sister was with her—my husband and the prisoner went aside about three yards from me at first; he wanted to go away, but she would not let him—I did not have any struggle with the prisoner until after my husband was struck—she shoved me away at first—I did not slap either of their faces—I was going after my husband when they accosted me—there was a fight afterwards; I believe a young man, named Hodd, came up and parted us—I am not bound to answer whether I have ever been under sentence—whatever struggle occurred between the prisoner and me, was after my husband had run away—I did not know that he was wounded; I thought he had run away to save a disturbance.
JOHN BUBBEBS MATHER . I am a surgeon, and live at No. 63, Bunhillrow, Finsbury—the prosecutor was brought to my surgery about 7 o'clock on the evening in question—I found a punctured wound an inch and a half above the left breast, towards the centre of the chest, it had struck on the rib—I merely dressed it—it was a simple wound, and he has done well since—it was in a very dangerous place—I presume that the blow was made at the heart, and had not the instrument struck on the rib it must have entered the breast, and, the man would have died on the spot; his wife came with him, she had a cut on the wrist—I examined his clothes, there were corresponding marks on the waistcoat, the shirt, and the flannel shirt, just opposite the wound on the chest.
WILLIAM HENRY MARSHALL . (police serjeant, S 4). I took the prisoner into custody—I found her at a public house in Old—street, St. Luke's—the prosecutor went with me and pointed her out—I charged her with stabbing him—she said, "It is my husband, take care of him; will go to Newgate for him before I have done."
Cross-examined. Q. At what time was it you took her? A. A quarter past 6 o'clock, about ten minutes after the occurrence; she appeared excited—I knew nothing of any of the parties before.
MR. MATHER. re-examined. The wound was only skin deep, the instrument having struck against the rib—I could not distinguish whether the bone was wounded; a wound with a pointed instrument would graze the bone—if the point had been very sharp it might have cut through the bone; from the appearance of the wound I do not think the point could have been very sharp; I think the bone would be strong enough to resist such a blow; it might in some cases break the rib, but, in this case, the blow being given by a woman, I think the rib might be uninjured.
MR. HORRY. called the following Witnesses for the Defence.
ANN HUNTER . I am a milkwoman, and my husband is a milkman—we live at No. 3, Chapel-street, Spital-square—lam the prisoner's sister—I wag with her on the evening in question, I came with her from my own house; she had asked me all the week to come with her; she said that Edwin White had promised her some money, and she was to meet him at 4 o'clock, but I was not ready to come with her till half past 5 o'clock—we met the prosecutor at the corner of Attfield—street, against the arch; she said to me, "There he is, Ann"—I said I did not want to speak to him, and I stood a little on one side while she went and spoke to him for about three or four minutes; while they were speaking I saw the prosecutor's wife go close up to him, and I went close up—the prosecutor's wife made a hit at my sister, and the prosecutor ran away, and then a general fight took place between my sister and the prosecutor's wife—a man came up and parted them—I did not see my sister with a knife in her hand; I saw no knife—she did not take a knife out with her, that I am aware of; no knife was missing from my place, and she was at my place that day, and all that week, and had left with me—the prosecutor's wife struck my sister three times before she hit her at all; she struck the first blow; I held my sister to keep her away—I did not see the prosecutor's wife move to follow her husband—she says that I struck her, but I never lifted my hand.
Cross-examined by MR. CARTER. Q. Spital-square is a considerable distance from this place, is it not? A. Yes—I went with my sister because she told me she went by appointment to meet him, and that he had promised to give her some money; he had given her some the previous week—my sister spoke first, she went up and spoke to him—he was walking along with his wife—I did not hear what passed between him and my sister—I did not see my sister push the prosecutor's wife—I did not see the prosecutor strike any blow—the fight between my sister and the prosecutor's wife was after he had run away—I did not see my sister strike any blow towards the prosecutor—I swear that—I can swear positively that I did not see her hand advance towards him—I did not see anything of a knife—I first heard of it when he came into the public house and charged her with sticking him—my sister said to the policeman, "Very well, take care of him; I will go with you," and that was all that passed—I did not hear her say, "He is my husband," or "I will go to Newgate for him before I have done."
FREDERICK HODD . I am a painter and glazier, and live at No. 8, Cherry—street—alley, Attfield-street. I was coming along Attfield—street, from my work, on this evening, about 6 o'clock, and saw the prosecutor at a distance, with the prisoner; I saw his wife—I afterwards saw the two women fighting—I did not see any blow struck by either of them before
that—I saw no knife in the prisoner's hands, or in either of their hands, or anywhere about the spot—I saw no knife thrown away; I could not say whether the prosecutor's wife took a knife away from the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. It was dark, I believe? A. Yes—I could not swear that there was no knife—either party might have had a knife without my seeing it; I did not look for any knife.
COURT. to MR. MATHER. Q. Was this a wound that a person could have inflicted upon himself? A. Yes, I think he might—it must have been given with considerable violence, because it had cut through the woollen dress, the waistcoat, shirt, and flannel shirt, and cut through the skin to the bone—if a person intended to do himself a mischief, he might give himself such a blow; but if he only intended to give himself a wound in order to get some one else into trouble, it would be a dangerous thing to do; it was a providential thing that the knife did not slip in between the ribs—I think the wound would have taken the same direction had it been given with the right hand—the wound itself was trifling—if the breast was exposed, it could have been made without much danger—I looked particularly at his clothes, and saw that they corresponded with the cut—he came to me about 7 o'clock, or a little after—he was taken first to the station, and then to my surgery, which would account for the time.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
GUILTY. Aged 28.— Confined Nine Months.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, March 4th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CHALLIS.; Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
SAMUEL WILKINSON . I live in Swan—yard, High-street, Islington. On Saturday night, 21st Feb., I went to bed about 20 minutes before 12 o'clock—my windows and doors were fastened—I was called the next morning, at 20 minutes before 8 o'clock—I looked into the kitchen, and missed the children's boots, some pinafores, a piece of bed curtain, and other things, and four loaves of bread from the safe—they had cut a gate open, broke through a window, and gone out at the street door.
SARAH HUGHES . I live with my father and mother, at No. 1, Swan-yard. On the Sunday morning on which the prosecutor's house was robbed, I was standing at the top of the court, between 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning, waiting for my father and mother—I saw the prisoner turn round the corner; he had some bread under his arm—he had more than one loaf—I knew him before; he lives in the next court to me—he turned down his own court—there is a gas light in the middle of the court—I am sure it was him—I saw two policeman at the time drinking some coffee.
standing near Swan—yard, drinking a cup of coffee—I saw the prisoner come up the yard—I knew him before—he had two loaves and two pieces on the top of them.
JAMES COMPTON . I am an officer. I took the prisoner into custody, at 9 o'clock on the Sunday night after the burglary—I told him he was charged with breaking into the house; he said he knew nothing about it—as we were going to the station a female followed him—he called her by her name, and told her to tell his mother to go to Mrs. Wilkinson and square it.
Prisoner. I never spoke to any one. Witness. Yes, you did—there was another constable with me, but the Magistrate did not bind him over.
SARAH REECE . I was in the fish shop at the corner of Swan—yard, on Sunday morning, 22nd Feb.; the shop was not closed till 3 o'clock—I saw the prisoner at the shop at 12 o'clock; he bought some fish—he came again at half past 12 o'clock, and borrowed a penny—I knew him before quite well.
Prisoner. It is false; I was not there at all; I have a witness to prove that I was in bed; there are a great number of persons down the court; I work very hard for my living; I know nothing about it; they searched my mother's place, and there was nothing found there.
SARAH BAILEY . I live at the prisoner's mother's—he sleeps in the next room to me—I saw him on that Saturday night, about half past 10 o'clock—he asked his mother for a piece of bread and butter, and she gave him some bread and dripping—he unlaced his boots to go to bed, and I left the room—I heard his mother call him to his breakfast the next morning, about 8 o'clock.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN CLARK . (policeman, N 345). On Thursday afternoon, 12th Feb., about 4 o'clock, I saw the prisoner in Albion Road, Stoke Newington, carrying a bag—I asked what he had got in the bag; he said, "Nothing"—I said, "You must have something;" he said, "I have not," and he chucked the bag down, and ran away—I ran after him a few yards, took him, and brought him back—I looked into the bag, and found it contained a leg of mutton—I delivered it to Jane Towers the next day.
JANE TOWERS . I am servant to Rebecca Moline, No. 2, Park-road, Stoke Newington—she is single. On the afternoon of 12th Feb. we had a leg of mutton in the pantry—I saw it safe at 2 o'clock, I missed it a little before 4—I saw the prisoner come to the area door a little before 4 o'clock, go up the area steps, and go away—he had a bag on his back, which seemed to contain something—I missed the leg of mutton directly—I went to Clerkenwell, and the last witness gave me the leg of mutton—it was my mistress's, and the same I had seen safe at 2 o'clock the day before.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Month.—(See page 581.)
MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution
and live in Brown's-lane, Spitalfields. On Saturday, 24th Jan., about a quarter before 11 o'clock in the evening, I was sitting in the parlour, which is four or five yards from the shop window—I commanded a view of the shop window—I heard a smash of glass, I ran to the shop, and saw Walbey with his hand on the bottom of the glass case; he had broken through the glass of the window and the glass of the case—I did not see whether he had taken anything—I ran out directly, and called, "Stop thief!"—shortly afterwards Walbey was brought back by the policeman, with his hand bleeding—my husband had removed the glass case—I looked into it, and missed two gold watches—shortly afterwards a gold watch was brought back to me by Moule; it was one that had been taken from the glass case—Moule gave the watch to the policeman—I am certain that Walbey is the one whose hand I saw through the window.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. How far is your parlour from the window? A. About four or five yards—we have a gas light in the window, and the butcher's next door gives a very strong light—I saw the features of Walbey as plain as I see you—he is the young man—he is dark—I cannot say whether he is marked with small pox—I only saw one man at the window.
JOHN MOULE . I am a brewer's servant, and live in Princes-street, Spitalfields. About a quarter before 11 o'clock on Saturday night, 24th Jan., I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" as I was coming up Montague-street—that was thirty or forty yards from Mr. Wagstaff's shop—I saw Walbey running towards me in a direction from Mr. Wagstaff's—he passed me, and as he passed he threw something out of his hand—it hit the wall, and then struck my leg, and I heard the sound of glass—I turned, and picked tip a gold watch—I took it to Mrs. Wagstaff, and gave it to the policeman in her presence—I was in the shop when Walbey was brought back in about five minutes—he is the man who threw something from his hand and struck my leg.
Cross-examined. Q. How far was the gas lamp from where you were? A. There was one right opposite—I saw Walbey commence running when he was about twenty yards from me—he threw the watch towards me—it hit the wall, and struck my leg—I turned, and picked it up.
GEORGE BAKER . I am a wheelwright, and live in Deal-street On the evening of 24th Jan. I was at the corner of Spital-street—I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I saw Walbey running towards me—I pursued and caught him in Little Spital—street—he said, "It was but a lark"—he repeated that two or three times—I held him till the constable came, and gave him to him.
THOMAS FRANCIS JAMES . I lived with my uncle, at No. 21, Montague-street. On 24th Jan. I saw a person stopped in Little Spital—street by George Baker—at the place where I saw him stopped I found a gold watch; it was lying in the street, just above the water, in the gutter—I gave the watch to my uncle, and I saw him show it to Mr. Wagstaff.
WILLIAM WILLIAMSON . (policeman, H 173). On Saturday night, 24th Jan., I was on duty in Montague—street, about a quarter before 11 o'clock——heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw three or four people running from the direction of Mr. Wagstaff's house—Walbey was one of them; he
was running at the top of his speed—I followed him, shouting, "Stop thief!"—I stopped one, who was ahead of Walbey—I cannot speak as to his identity—while I had got him, some one cried out, "Stop the other one!"—I let go the one I had, and pursued Walbey—he ran by the spot where the witness found the gold watch—I saw Walbey taken by Baker, and he was given into my custody—I examined his right hand, and the second, third, and fourth fingers were cut, and smeared with blood—it seemed newly done—I took him to Mr. Wagstaff's shop, and in the shop I received a gold watch from Mrs. Wagstaff—I do not know whether Moule was present, but he came to the station—I received this other gold watch at the station, from Francis Robinson.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you examine Walbey's hand closely? A. Yes—I will swear that they were cuts on his hand—they were not scratches—they were bleeding—it seemed as if they had been cut with something sharp—I noticed his hand when it was not bleeding, at the Police Court, on Monday—the cuts were healed a little; they had a slight skin on them.
JAMES BURROWS . (policeman, N 392). I took the prisoner Cole into custody on Monday. 26th Jan.—I found him in Pitfield-street, Hoxton—I told him I wanted him for a robbery of some watches, on Saturday, with the countryman—he said he was not with the countryman on Saturday night—I had known Walbey before going by the nick name of the countryman.
WILLIAM LOW . (policeman, H 152). About 5 minutes past 10 o'clock on Saturday night, 24th Jan., I saw the two prisoners together with another man, looking in at Mr. Wagstaff's window—they remained looking in for about three minutes—they then left the window in company—they went just round the corner, in Montagu-street—they returned in about a minute and a half; Walbey and the other who is not in custody crossed over about sixty yards from Mr. Wagstafs, and Cole stood with his hands on the post at the corner of Montague—street—I went to Cole, and asked him what he was doing there—he made no answer, but walked away, and joined the other two—I then went away, and immediately after I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I was then at the corner of Montague—street and Little Spital-street; I afterwards saw Cole stopped by William Williamson, and he let him go—I saw him after that stopped by a butcher, and he let him go—I ran after him, but I lost sight of him.
Cole. Q. What sort of clothes had I on? A. The same you had on Monday morning—you were gone down Montague—street about a minute and a half before you came back, and stood with your elbows on the post at the corner.
SAMUEL GORICK . I am a butcher, and live at No. 17, Brown's-lane, next door to Mr. Wagstaff—I was at my door about 20 minutes before 11 o'clock on Saturday night, 24th Jan.—I heard a smash of glass; I turned, and saw Cole pick up something from the gutter; he ran away, and I ran after him; I saw the policeman Williamson stop him, and he let him go—I caught him afterwards, and he said, "What do you want to detain me for? you see the policeman let me go; I had nothing to do with it"—I then let him go—I am sure he is the same person I saw run away when I heard the smash, and the one I seized and let go.
Cole. Q. When you turned, how far was I from the window? A. At the edge of the pavement, which is about four feet wide—I did not say that you were picking a gold watch out of the gutter—I did not know what
it was you picked up; you were about 150 yards down the street when the constable let you go—it was a light place—I should have taken you when I saw you pick something up if I had known what it meant.
WALBEY— GUILTY .
COLE— GUILTY .
(The prisoners were also charged with having been before convicted.)
JOHN MILTON . (policeman, N 150). I produce the certificate—(Read: "At Clerkenwell, Sept., 1853, James Phillips was convicted, and sentenced to two years confinement")—Walbey is the person—I knew him before and since—he had been summarily convicted before, and has been the associate of thieves.
(John Robinson, of White's Mews, White-street, Moorfields, gave Cole a good character.)
WALBEY—GUILTY. Aged 20.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
COLE—GUILTY. Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. BAKER SMITH. conducted the Prosecution,
DANIEL SMITH . (policeman, K 415). On the morning of 1st Feb., I was on duty in Mile End Road, about a quarter before 6 o'clock—I saw the prisoner and three other men standing at the doors of Mr. Avila, a pawnbroker, in Park-place—the prisoner was at the door of No. 16, there was a man at the door of No. 17, a man at the door of No. 18, and a man at the shutters of No. 16, where the prisoner was at the door—I was then about fifty yards from him—I went within ten or twelve yards of him, and I law him moving his arm as if boring something into the door; and to my belief the other men were doing the same as he was—the prisoner turned round, and came towards me—I went up to the door to see what he had been doing, and I saw this gimlet made fast into the door, and, to the best of my belief, the prisoner had been working with it—I took hold of him by the collar and sprung my rattle for assistance—as soon as I did that, the other three men ran down the Mile End Road, towards Bow—the prisoner said, "You need not make that noise"—assistance came, and we took him to the station, and found this gimlet and knife on him.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. What was the time? A. About 10 minutes or a quarter before 6 o'clock—I will swear it was not past 6 o'clock—I have a watch, I did not look at it—when I got to the station it was half past 6 o'clock—the station is half a mile from Mr. Avila's—I will not be positive to a minute, I will to five minutes—I will swear it was not 35 minutes pant 6 o'clock—it was about the half hour—I hare not measured the distance—I form an opinion; it is about half a mile—it was rather a light morning with the gas—I could see very well—I could not say with certainty what the prisoner was doing—he had gone away fourteen or fifteen yards, when I took him—he walked away in a leisurely manner with his hands down—the other men left; I did not stop the prisoner when he met me, because I wanted to know whether he had been doing anything—I did not take the other men, because the prisoner was at the door nearest
to me—I do not know what the other men had been doing—the prisoner keeps a beer shop—I found nothing on him but a gimlet and a common knife—I had looked at my watch at 5 o'clock—we searched the prisoner in the road as soon as my brother constable came up, in six or seven minutes.
MR. SMITH. Q. Did you hear the clock strike 6? A. Yes; after I had got the prisoner in custody I heard two clocks strike—I should say that was seven or eight minutes after I had the prisoner—I have reason to believe that this gimlet, which I found in the door, had been used by the prisoner—I saw the prisoner as if he was using a gimlet—I should say a gimlet is a necessary thing for a person to keep in a beer shop.
COURT. Q. Is a gimlet used for house breaking? A. Yes; I have seen such gimlets as these taken from persons who have been taken for housebreaking, and found them in door and shutters where houses have been broken—by these they can see whether a door is lined with iron inside.
WILLIAM LONG . (policeman, K 77). On the morning of 1st Feb., I was on duty at a quarter before 6 o'clock, in Whitechapel—road, near the premises of Mr. Avila, Nos. 16, 17, and 18, Park-place—I was there about 10 minutes before 6 o'clock as near as I can guess, and saw the last witness with the prisoner in his custody—I heard the clock strike after I had seen the prisoner in custody; it might be seven, or eight, or ten minutes after—I cannot say to a minute—the prisoner did not say anything in my presence—I examined the premises—I found, at No. 17, a gimlet near the keyhole and at No. 18, one gimlet bored near the key hole, and another near the door post; and from what I was told in the prisoner's presence—I went near to Mr. A Vila's shop, and there found a fourth gimlet.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you carry a watch? A. Yes; it might have been an hour or an hour and a half before I heard the rattle spring that I had looked at my watch—I did not look at it when I heard the rattle—I think we got to the station about half past 6 o'clock—I believe that was about the time as near as I can guess—I cannot say that I looked at the clock—the station is three quarters of a mile from Mr. Avila's, as near as I can guess—I should think it is more than 900 yards—the clock of the London Hospital is exactly opposite to my beat, I hear it every hour—I am positive I heard it strike after the prisoner was in custody, and the hour struck was 6—the prisoner was searched at the station in my presence, and this gimlet was found in his pocket—I called up the people in the house.
MR. SMITH. Q. Are you perfectly sure you heard the clock strike 6 after the prisoner was in custody? A. Yes; I am quite certain.
JAMES HENRY HARPER . I am shopman to Mr. Josiah Benjamin Avila, On the morning of 1st Feb., my attention was drawn to a gimlet having been in the door of the shop—there was no such thing in the shop door when I shut it up at night.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you look what o'clock it was when the police knocked you up? A. The clock struck 6 after we were called down—I had shut up the shop at 8 o'clock at night.
He was also charged with having been before convicted of felony: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 24.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, March 4th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. WIRE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
MESSRS. W. J. PAYNE. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL JARMAN . I produce a certificate—(Read: "Central Criminal Courtf Aprily 1856; Charles Buss, Convicted, on his own confession, of uttering two counterfeit half crowns on the same day; Confined nine months")
Prisoner. I plead guilty to that, but not to this.
BENJAMIN HUREN . I am a butcher, of Park-lane, Dorset-square. On 16th Feb., about 12 o'clock in the day, the prisoner came for half a pound of beef steak; I cut nine ounces, which came to 4½d.—he tendered me a bad shilling, I bent it nearly double with my teeth, gave it to him again, and he left without the steak, not being able to pay for it—I followed him up the street, and he joined a woman, Ann Dillon (See page 608), about 100 yards off—they went together to a public house in Upper Park-place, and I informed the police—a few minutes afterwards I saw them in Mr. Webb's shop, a few yards from the public house; they came out, and went up the street—some time afterwards I saw them in a public house next door to my house, and they were taken into custody.
Prisoner. Q. How long did you see me with this woman? A. Half an hour—I chopped the shilling nearly in two after I had bent it, and was foolish enough to give it back to you.
ASCOTT WILLIAM BRAUND . I keep a chemist's shop, at No. 20, New-street, Dorset-square. On 16th Feb., Ann Dillon came, and I served her with Id. worth of pills; she gave me a counterfeit shilling, I cut it in two, and detained the pieces—I said, "I will give you into custody if I see you here again, and likewise your companion;" that was the prisoner, whom I saw looking in at the window—she left the shop, and I saw the prisoner pass the door in the same direction as she went—I gave the two pieces of the shilling to Oake.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me speak to the woman? A. No, nor did I see you join her.
CHARLOTTE WEBB . I am the wife of William Webb, and keep a chandler's shop in Upper Park-place. On 16th Feb. the prisoner and Dillon came; the prisoner asked for half an ounce of tobacco, he gave me a good shilling, and I gave him 10d. change—Dillon then asked for 4d. worth of sweets, and gave me a bad shilling; I bent it with my teeth, and gave it to her back—she left the sweets, and they went away together—this shilling (produced) was afterwards shown me by a policeman; to the best of my knowledge, it is the same; I only bent it a little.
HENRY JOHN GRIFFITHS . My father is a licensed victualler, of No. 26, New-street, Dorset-square. On Monday, 16th Feb., I was in the bar; the prisoner and Dillon came together—Dillon asked for half a quartern of rum, and put down a bad shilling; I did not touch it, but told them it was bad,
and the prisoner paid in coppers, and asked her where she got it: she said, "From a shop"—two policeman came in, and they were taken into custody.
Prisoner. Q. Had you seen me at your house before? A. Yes, about twice, and I think you were there with Dillon the same morning—I never knew you to pass bad money.
JAMES OAKE . (policeman, D 256). On 16th Feb. Mr. Huren pointed the prisoner and Dillon out to me, in Upper Park-place, Dorset-square—I watched them, and saw them come out of the Gloucester Arms, and go into Mrs. Webb's; they came out together, and went up Park—place into Boston-place; they returned down Upper Park-place into Park-street, and went into Mr. Griffiths—I went in with another constable, and found them in front of the bar; I told them they must consider themselves in my custody for passing counterfeit money—when outside, I saw the prisoner's hand clenched, I seized it, and took this shilling from it, which is a little bent—I showed it to Mrs. Webb; it has the mark of her teeth on it—Mr. Braund came up, and gave me this shilling and two pieces—the prisoner said that he had passed no bad money; he had been drinking, but was not drunk.
Prisoner's Defence. I was tipsy, and the woman forced herself on my company; when I found the shilling was bad, I paid in coppers.
GUILTY .—(MR. PAYNE stated that he had been twice convicted of similar offences.)— Six Years Penal Servitude.
DILLON PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
MR. PAYNE. offered no evidence against WILSON, the facts being the same.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES TURNER . I now keep the Globe public house, Regent-street, Lambeth-walk. On Saturday night, 31st Jan., about 10 minutes before 12 o'clock, the prisoner came to the Feathers public house, which I kept then, and asked for half a quartern of gin; the lad served her, and she put down a bad 2s. piece; I bit it in two, and she immediately gave me another; a constable was sent for, and I gave him the florins.
JOHN AVERY . (policeman, L 155). I was called to the Feathers public house, and received from Mr. Turner a bad florin broken in two—I took the prisoner, took her before the Magistrate, she was remanded till the 7th, and then discharged—she said that her husband had given her 15s. that night, in which were three florins, and that this was one of them, but before the Magistrate she said that her little boy picked it up in Union-street, Borough.
Prisoner. Have not I kept a stall in the street? A. Yes, for seven or eight years, but not for the last year.
RICHARD LOCK . I keep the Enterprise public house, Walton-street, Chelsea. On Tuesday, 6th Feb., about 6 o'clock, the prisoner came for 2d. worth of brandy, and gave me a counterfeit shilling—I said, "This is a bad
one;" she feigned great surprise, and said, "I will give you another;" she did so, and that was bad also—as I took it she dropped a good shilling on the counter—a constable was at the bar, and I gave her in charge with the two bad shillings, which I marked—she turned out two half ounces of tea, done up in separate papers, 4d. in copper, a 4d. piece, a florin, and some other good silver—she was sober.
CHARLES STEPHENS . (policeman, B 260). I was at the bar of the Enterprise public house—I produce two counterfeit shillings, given to me by Mr. Lock—I took the prisoner, and took from her two half ounces of tea, differently done up, as if from different tradesmen, some cough drops, a florin, three shillings, a sixpence, two 4d. pieces, and 4d. in copper, in good money.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware that I had any bad money.
GUILTY .— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT WATT . I am a baker, of Shepherd's Bush. On 16th Feb. Pearce came for a 2d. loaf, about 9 o'clock in the evening; I served him—he gave me a coin resembling a shilling, I told him it was bad, and asked him where he got it; he said, "From a gentleman, for carrying a parcel"—a constable was present, but I declined to give him in charge, as he turned out his pockets, and had no more bad money—I marked the shilling, kept it till next day, and gave it to sergeant Lee—I did not see Scott.
JOHN LUNN . I keep the Cock and Magpie. My wife, who was in the bar, gave me a bad shilling, about 5 minutes past 10 o'clock, and said, in the presence of Scott, who was there, that he had given it to her for a screw of tobacco, and half a pint of beer—I asked him where he got it, he said that a gentleman gave it to him—I asked him if he had been to Westminster or Holborn lately, he said that he had been to Westminster once with his father—I said that I should keep the shilling, and if he did not like that, to go out and meet a policeman, and I would give him the shilling—I saw a policeman about a quarter of an hour afterwards, and gave it to him.
JAMES BARNARD . I kept the Chaise and Horses, Hammersmith. On 16th Feb., about half past 10 o'clock at night, Pearce came for half a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco—he gave me a bad shilling—I opened the door to look for a policeman, saw sergeant Neave at the door, he came in, and I gave him into custody with the shilling, which I marked—going to the station, Scott came up to me, and said, "What has that young man been doing?" I appeared to know nothing about it; the officer spoke to him, and I gave him in charge.
THOMAS HADLAND . I keep a beer house and coffee house, in King-street, Hammersmith. On 16th Feb., between 10 and 11 o'clock at night, Pearce came for half a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco; he gave me a shilling, and I gave him a 6d. and 4d. change—he left, and I put the shilling into the till; there was no other shilling there; I took it out again when I went up to bed; it was still the only shilling there, the till having been cleared half an hour before—I kept it separate, and next morning the police came, and I found that it was bad, marked it, and gave it to Neave.
WILLIAMNORRISSNEAVE. (police sergeant, T 28). I am stationed at Hammersmith. On 16th Feb. I received information, and looked after the
prisoners—I met them together about seventy yards from Mr. Lunn's, going towards Mr. Barnard's—Scott went on ahead, but Pearce went into Mr. Barnard's, and I saw him throw a shilling on the counter; Mr. Barnard came outside and made a communication to me—I went in, and Pearce was given into my charge, with this shilling (produced)—on the way to the station I took Scott, and searched him, but found nothing on him—I received these three coins (produced) from Lunn, Watt, and Hadland—Scott said that he knew nothing about it or about Pearce.
Pearce's Defence. I know nothing of this lad; the shillings were given to me, I did not know that they were bad.
PEARCE— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
SCOTT— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES HEMMING . I am a butcher, of Leman-street, Whitechapel. On 7th Feb., about 8 o'clock, the prisoner came for a piece of mutton—I am sure of her—it came to 10d., she gave me a crown, I gave her the change, and she went away—I put it into a box, and ten minutes afterwards I found that it was bad—I had no other crown—she came again on the 17th, about 6 o'clock in the evening, for a piece of sausage or mutton, she did not know which she wanted—she had some sausages, which came to 4 1/2 d., and gave me a bad half crown; I told her so, and that the crown was bad; she said that she was never in my shop before—I gave them both to the constable.
DONALD MILLER . (policeman, H 218). On 17th Feb. the prisoner was given into my custody at Mr. Hemming's, with a crown and half crown—she said that she knew nothing at all about the crown, and the half crown she got from a sailor about half an hour before.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware that they were bad—Mr. Hemming first said that it was a week before that I came to the shop, and then he Raid that it was a fortnight.
COURT. to CHARLES HEMMING. Q. Did you recognize her when she came in on the 17th? A. Yes, and I spoke, to my brother in German as soon as she came in—I then served her, intending to look particularly at the money.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JAMES LEWIS . I am a licensed victualler, of the New North-road. On Saturday, 7th Feb., between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for half a quartern of rum; she brought a bottle, and my daughter put the rum into it, and brought me a half crown, which was bad—I told the prisoner it was bad; she said, "Dear me! is it?" I said, "Yes," and broke it before her, and threw the best part of it into a punch bowl, and afterwards gave it to a policeman—I took the rum from her, and told her not to come for any more, or I should lock her up—on the 18th she came again with a bottle for half a quartern of rum—I suspected that she was the same woman when she first came in—she offered me a bad half crown, and I told her it was bad, and that she had been there before, which she denied—I said that I was sure of her, and should give her in charge;
she said that she hoped I should not, for her sight was so bad; I told her it was her heart that was so bad, and gave her in charge, with the half crown and the broken pieces—I am certain she is the same person who came on the 7th.
COURT. Q. Did you ever see her on any occasion besides those two? A. I have no doubt that I saw her there on the Saturday before the second time; she came for some rum then, and my son served her.
ELIZABETH LEWIS . I live with my father. I saw the prisoner come for the rum on 2nd Feb., and am certain of her—I served her with half a quartern of rum, which I put into a bottle, and she gave me a half crown; I gave it to my father—I had never seen her before—on the 18th she came again, and my father served her—I am certain she is the same person.
Prisoner's Defence. My sight is so bad that I cannot discover bad money; that is the whole cause of my present trouble.
GUILTY . Aged 50.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE SYMPSON . I am servant to Mr. Empson, who keeps the Black Boll, Holborn—hill On 7th Feb., between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came, and asked for half a pint of beer—he offered me a bad sixpence; I bent it nearly double in a detector—he said that he did not know it was bad, took it back, and gave me a good one.
Prisoner. Q. Are you sure it was me? A. Yes, I took particular notice of you.
JOHN EMPSON . I am the master of the last witness. I was at home on the 7th, and I think I saw the prisoner, but will not swear—on 10th Feb., at 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came, and called for half a pint of beer; my sister—in—law served him; he put down 6d., I saw her trying to bend it, took it from her, and found it—was bad—he said, "A gentleman in Holborn gave it to me for holding his horse"—he then gave me a good sixpence, and I gave him 5d. change—I sent for a constable, and gave him in charge, with the sixpence.
CHARLES JOHN FORSTER . (City policeman, 269). I took the prisoner, and received this sixpence (produced)—I found on him at the station 5½d., in copper—he gave his address, No. 24, Queen-street, Seven Dials—I made inquiry there, and he was not known.
Prisoner's Defence. A gentleman gave me the sixpence for holding his horse in Holborn; as to being there on Saturday evening; I was on the other side of the water from 4 o'clock till half past 11; they did not know my name when the policeman went, as it is a model lodging house.
COURT. to GEORGE STMPSON. Q. Did you see the prisoner on the 10th? A. Yes, I was up stairs, and Mr. Empson sent for me, and I recognized him
in a moment as being there on Saturday night, the 7th, and giving me a bad sixpence, so I went for the police.
GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. CLERK. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH DONALD . I am assistant to Mr. Birkett, a stationer, of Norton Folgate. On 20th Feb., between 4 and 5 o'clock, the prisoner came for 6d. worth of receipt stamps, and gave me a half crown; I tried it with a detector, bent it, and gave it to Mr. Birkett, who came into the shop, and the prisoner paid with a sixpence, and left—Mr. Birkett sent the errand boy to follow her.
WILLIAM JOHN BURTON . I am errand boy to Mr. Birkett. He told me to follow the prisoner; I did so, and she met a man at the corner of Primrose—street, spoke to him, and they walked together to Skinner-street—the man then crossed over, and looked into Mr. Turner's shop, in Bishopsgate—street—the prisoner walked on, and the man turned and walked back as far as Angel—alley with her, and then back to Acorn-street—the prisoner then went into Mr. Turner's shop—I crossed over, and looked in at the window, and saw her put down some money—I then walked in, and told Emma Child, in the prisoner's presence, that she had been passing a bad half crown higher up; she denied it, a policeman was sent for, and she was given into custody.
EMMA CHILD . I am assistant to Mr. Turner. On 20th Feb., in the afternoon, the prisoner came to look at some handkerchiefs; she selected some at 5d., and offered me a half crown—while I was trying it in the detector, Burton came in, and said that she had passed a bad half crown at his master's shop—she was given into custody, with the half crown—I had seen her before, but not lately.
DANIEL WHALE . (City policeman, 650). The prisoner was given into my custody, and I received the half crown from Miss Child—the prisoner said, "I did not know it was bad; if they lock me up, what can they do with me?" and that if she was locked up she would set the law at defiance—I said, "Do not halloo too soon," and then she begged for mercy. Prisoner. I said no such thing.
Prisoner's Defence (written). On Friday, 20th Feb., the prisoner was in Bishopsgate—street, and purchased some stamps, for which she tendered a half crown, which the shopkeeper said was bad, and she afterwards paid with a sixpence; she was afterwards seen to enter a linendraper's; she tendered another half crown, and was given into custody; it is submitted to the Court that there is no direct evidence to show that the first half crown was bad (The particulars of a similar case at Southwark were then related); in reference to the second half crown, it is not likely she believed
it to be bad; she took it the same day for services rendered; there was nothing found on the prisoner to show that she was engaged in the pursuit of passing bad money; it may he said that she threw the stamps and half crown away, but she lost them; it is not likely that she would throw them away after paying for them; a person not being aware that she had got any bad money, might utter it without guilty knowledge; the Court is therefore reasonably called upon to give the prisoner the benefit of the doubt, as no case is made out as to the first being bad, or of her being possessed of the same.
GUILTY . **†
(Inspector Brennan stated that she had been convicted four times of single utterings, and that she attends all the Police Courts, making inquiries about persons charged with uttering counterfeit coin.) Confined Two Years.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, March 5th, 1857.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK.; Mr. Baron BRAMWELL.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS.; Mr. Ald. WIRE.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock and the Second Jury.
SIR FREDERICK THESIGER., with MESSRS. BODKIN. and SLEIGH., conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY ATWELL . I am at present a prisoner in Newgate, under sentence of transportation for life—I was convicted here a few Sessions since of the crime of forgery, with a person of the name of Hardwicke—I know Saward and Anderson—I became acquainted with Saward first—I was introduced to him by a person of the name of Saunders, a scalemaker and smith, in the Old-street road—it is now turned twelve months back since that introduction took place—it was in the year 1855—it is now about thirteen months back, I think—I had at that time in my possession three cancelled cheques, and two blank cheques—I received them from a person; I believe they came from a burglary—they were afterwards torn up—they were drawn on Barclay's bank by a person in Brick-lane, of the name of Doe, I think—I had some conversation with Saunders on the subject of those cheques, in consequence of which I appointed to meet him again, and did meet him again soon afterwards at his own house—Saward was present when I met him the second time—I had never seen Saward before—Saunders gave me the cheques that I had left with him, and then I showed them to Saward; Saunders said, "That is the person I mentioned to you"—Saward and I had some very trifling conversation inside; I came out with him from Saunders's, and he asked me then if I knew where they came from; I told him I believed they came from a burglary at a person's of the name of Doe, in Spitalfields; he said he should like to know where the person was, and who he was; and if I would go with him he should feel obliged—I went with him as far as Doe's place—before we went there Saward said that the two cheques that were not cancelled were to be filled up, to be forged—he said he had a man who he called his sender, who would send them to the bank when they were filled up—Mr. Doe's
premises are in Brick-lane, Spitalfields—on seeing the premises he said that it was a very small place; he did not think he should be able to get much money from them—I then left him—I gave the cheques to Saward—he took them all five—I had an appointment to meet him a short time afterwards, and he met me, and told me that he had them all ready on a certain day—on the day that we went to see Doe's premises I made an appointment to meet him another time, I met him, to the best of my belief, a little above Old—street road first, that was the time before, before the cheques were sent, and I then had an appointment to meet him in the New-road, Spitalfields, to the best of my belief, where he then introduced the two cheques that I had given him in blank, filled up—it was on the second occasion that be brought the cheques—I believe those (produced) to be the two cheques that were in blank, and which he brought to me on the second occasion that I met him—when he produced them he said he had filled them up, and he showed me the three that were cancelled, to compare with the two that he had filled up; he asked me if I thought they were a very good imitation—I said "Yes," to the best of my belief; I looked at them all—after I had examined and compared the three cancelled cheques with the other two, he said these were of no use, and we tore them up.
(The two cheques were here ready they were dated 9th and 10th Jan., and were for 46l. 15s. 6d. 95l. 17s. 6d., and were signed J. B. Doe, jun.; payable at Barclay's)—after the other cheques had been destroyed I went into the neighbourhood of Leman-street, Whitechapel, with Saward; three other persons were with him—one of them was Anderson, whom he called his sender, and two other persons not in custody—we then went into a house near Leman-street, where Anderson bad taken lodgings, and wrote a letter to some person—I did not go into the house—Anderson went in, no one else—he told me he had written a letter for a person to come—this was on the day that the cheque was sent to the bankers—the lodging was taken, and the letter was written unbeknown to me—he told me that be bad done it before; it was not done that day—he did not say where he had written it to; he said he had written it to a man who advertises generally in the papers for a situation—whilst we were in Leman-street a young man came to the same house were the lodgings were taken—I do not know his name; I should know the young man—(The witness Draper was here called in)—I believe that is the young man that came there that morning—when he came Anderson was to give him this cheque to go to the bankers; I was to follow him there to see whether the money was paid; I did so, and saw the money paid—it was the smallest cheque of the two, for 40l. odd—I saw him receive the money at Barclay's—when he had received the money he came straight down to Leman-street—I followed him back to the lodging—the arrangement made by Anderson was, that a man who went with me to know whether the money was paid, was to run back and tell him; Anderson would not be in the lodging at the time, be would come out after he had given the man the cheque, and he was to go back and tell him whether the money was paid—I sent a message through that man that the money was paid—when I got back to Leman-street I found Anderson in the house—the money was given to Anderson; I believe he brought it out with him—the young man then went away—I did not hear anything said to him by Anderson—I and Anderson then went to a public house in the neighbourhood of Spitalfields, and stopped some little time, and had a glass of something to drink; and from there we went to the Eastern Counties Railway, where he proposed to meet another person to take the other cheque—that
was the same day—Saward was with us all day—when I returned on the cheque being paid, Saward was in Leman-street, not with Anderson, Anderson was inside, and Saward outside—we all joined, and went together to the Eastern Counties—the money was given to Saward by Anderson before we went to the Eastern Counties—the gold was shared, and the notes were given to Saward—there were five of us there; Anderson, Saward, and two other persons—one man they commonly called Fred and the other Tom; I do not know them by any other names—the notes were given to Saward—he said he would keep them until the other cheque was sent, to see if it was paid—we then went to the Eastern Counties Railway—I there saw another young man—I do not know his name—I should know him—(Edward Brown was here called in)—that is the young man—Anderson spoke to him, took him into a sort of public house, and there gave him a cheque for 90l. odd—he was to take it to the bankers and get it cashed as the other man had done—at this time Saward was waiting outside, in the neighbourhood; I followed this young man to the banking house, as I had done the other—the cheque was paid, and I followed the young man back—at first he was going over London Bridge instead of going back to the Eastern Counties—I went and tapped him on the shoulder, and told him I thought he was going the, wrong way—he said that he was only going over to his master to inquire about his character; he did not mean anything dishonest—he turned round and came the right way, and gave the money to Anderson, right opposite Spital-square—I can hardly say whether it was in the street, or whether Anderson took him into a house; if it was in a house it was just round the corner—I think he did take him into a house, but I saw him give him the money—I saw Saward there; he was on the opposite side of the way—as Anderson was coming down one side Saward was coming down on the other—I had sent a message this time, the same as before, to say that it was all right—we then went into the neighbourhood of the Hackney-road—we went into a public house, and Saward took the notes to try and dispose of them for gold; to sell them; I mean the last notes as well as the first—he said he would go and try and sell them to a person that he knew—he mentioned a person of the name of Hall, to the best of my belief—I do not recollect Hall's Christian name being mentioned—Saward left us for that purpose, and took the notes with him—he was gone about an hour, or an hour and a quarter—when he came back he brought us so much gold for the notes—I believe the cost of them was about 8l. 10s. for each of the 10l. notes—we then shared the money—it was put up in sixes—there were five of us there—I took a share for bringing the papers, and that I gave the person of the name of Saunders a part of, for the introduction—I had somewhere about 30l. or 40l., I think—I had two shares, because I had the papers—we then separated—Saward told me if I should ever have anything of that kind I was to let him know, and he said he would let me know—I gave him my address where I lived in Cottage-lane, and he said he would write to me, or I might always find him through Mr. Saunders—he did not give me his address at the time—I was then living in Cottage-lane—I went by the name of Hawkes—a female was living with me as my wife—her name is Elizabeth Evans, I believe—I lived with her a little better than two years, I think—I have an aunt of the name of Elizabeth Haydon—she occasionally used to visit me at Cottage-lane—Saward came to me in Cottage-lane about two months after the transaction at Barclay's, I think, or it might be less; I cannot speak to the time—I saw him more than once there, I believe—I saw him twice in Cottage-lane—I
remember the presentation of the cheque at Smith, Payne, and Smith's—he called at my place on that day—he said that he had some business on hand, and if I wished to join in, as I had done before, I could come; which I agreed to do—he showed me some cheques—(looking at some) these are them—they are nine cancelled cheques—they are signed by a person of the name of Ash—he also showed me this one (looking at it)—this is a cheque for 91l. on the same bankers, and in the same name of Ash—he said that was to be sent to the bankers, in the same way of business as the one to Barclay's—I compared this with the cancelled cheques, and said I thought it appeared very perfect—he did not tell me then how he had got these cheques, but I believe I heard afterwards how they were got; they were the produce of a burglary—he told me that there was a place taken in Oakley-crescent, City-road, I think—he said the same person as before was going to present this cheque; Anderson, the sender; and I was to follow the man to the bankers in the same way—he left the cancelled cheques at my place for me to take care of—I then met Anderson out in the road—Saward was with me—we all went to a public house in the neighbourhood of the City-road, and then Anderson dressed up for the occasion, as he used to do—he wore a wig; sometimes he would wear whiskers, and sometimes not—I did not go with him to Oakleycrescent—I was waiting in the neighbourhood—I saw a young man come there—(The witness Humphreys was here called in)—I believe he looks something like the young man—he went to the lodging in Oakley-crescent, where Anderson was—he was sent at first on some errand to the railway at Camden Town—I waited in the neighbourhood until lie came back—Anderson went into the lodging before he returned—the young man then came out, and went in the direction of the City—I followed him—I saw him present the cheque at Smith, Payne, and Smith's—it was not paid—on that, I came back, and met the other persons, who were outside—I sent them on, and then I came on myself, and told them it was stopped—(The cheque was here read, dated 21 Feb., 1856, for 91l., drawn by Charles F. Ash, on Smith, Payne, and Smith)—at the time these nine cancelled cheques were deposited with me by Saward, I was in the front room of my house, in Cottage-lane—I then had the whole of that house—Elizabeth Evans came into the room whilst this was being done—a sheet of paper was left at the same time—this (produced) is it—I received it from Saward, at the same time—(This was stated to be a sheet of blank cheques upon the North Western Bank of England)—they all continued in my custody for some time—Saward asked me to take care of them; they would come in very useful—I gave the cancelled cheques and this sheet of paper to Elizabeth Evans, to take care of them for me; to put them where I might know where to find them at any time—they continued under her care until I was taken into custody—after this, Saward left a letter with my brother one evening, stating that I was to meet him—I did meet him—I believe he called at my place the next morning, and told me that he had received a book of cheques from a banker's at the corner of the Haymarket, which they had sent for, that they had taken some lodgings, and they wished me to go and follow the young man to the banker's, as I had done before, with some of the cheques out of that book; I agreed to that—I followed three young men, each with a separate cheque—one was sent from the neighbourhood of Park-street, Camden Town, and the other two from the neighbourhood of St. John's Wood-lodgings were taken for the purpose, in the same way as before—(The witness Bowells was here called in)—I cannot say that that is
the young man that went from Park-street—I have no doubt he is, but I cannot swear it; I cannot call his features to mind—soon after this, I saw Saward about a bill of exchange—I remember a lodging being taken in Cumberland-street, Hackney-road—Saward said that he had a bill ready filled up, which he wished to try upon the bankers, and I was to go with them and get a lodging—I met them against Shoreditch Church; Saward, Anderson, and another person—Anderson went and took a lodging in Cumberland-street—I waited in the neighbourhood—Saward did not show me the bill that day—he did the next day—I believe this to be the bill—(This was a bill for 386l. 17s. 10d., dated Jan. 15, 1856, at three months, payable to W. F. Jennings and Co., addressed, "Samuel Dobree, 6, Tokenhouse-yard, London;" accepted at Hankers, for Samuel Dobree and Sons, Thomas Gray)—this bill was sent from Cumberland-street by Anderson—he was then dressed the same as he usually was, with a wig—I do not know whether he had false whiskers then or not—the young man was despatched from there with that bill—that is the young man (looking at Wigzell)—I followed him to Hankey's bank, and saw him present the bill—it was not paid—upon that I went to a coffee house, in Shoreditch, where I found Saward and Anderson—I told them the bill was not paid, and we separated—I had seen something written on the back of the bill that day, in the coffee house, by Saward, before it was sent—the bill was detained, it did not come back—I do not know exactly what it was that Saward wrote; it was some little trifling thing—the date of the month was generally put to them on the day they were dated, making them due that day; otherwise, if they were dated before, I have heard him say they would not be payable at all, provided they were negligent as to the date—I believe he wrote nothing except the day of the month—In April last I went to the office of Mr. Turner, a solicitor, in Bed lion-square—that was in consequence of an arrangement made by Saward, myself, Anderson, and another person—Saward gave me an I O U, which I was to take to Mr. Turner, and give him instructions to write for payment, for the purpose of getting a cheque of Mr. Turner's, after the money was paid—I went to the office with the I O U, and instructed Mr. Turner, or his clerk, to proceed to recover the payment of that money—I described myself to Mr. Turner as Mr. Hunter—Saward suggested that name to me—he said, as the debt I applied for was under 50l., I might give the name of Hunter; that Mr. Turner should write the letters "Hun," which would be half of the word "Hundred," and so get the cheque from him in order to forge others—Mr. Hesp was the name of the supposed debtor—I do not recollect the address; I know the place very well; it is in the neighbourhood of the New-road—Anderson took a lodging there, for the purpose of having the letters to Mr. Hesp addressed there—I advanced, I think, 40l. in money for the payment of this debt—my brother took it to Mr. Turner's—I gave it to him—a few days afterwards I called at Mr. Turner's, and his clerk paid me the money in cash—I saw Saward afterwards, and told him—he said, "We cannot help it; it must stand over till another time; we must try it again"—About this time I became acquainted with Hardwicke—Saward first mentioned Hard-wicke to me—he told me that he had an old friend of his that he had known many years; that he was going to meet him, and he would introduce me to him; that he had come from Australia, and had some business to do—I went with Saward and Anderson to Farringdon-market, and met Hardwicke—we went into a public house, and had a glass of something to drink, and some little conversation passed between us
about having some papers—we met again that same evening, at a house in the Southwark-bridge-road, Hardwicke, Saward, Anderson, and myself—we had something to drink, and we had something to eat that evening—they had no cooked victuals in the house—we asked the landlord whether he had anything cooked; he said, "No," but he would send out and get us something; he did so, and got some boiled beef ready cooked; in consequence of that we always called that house "The beef house"—we met several times afterwards at that house, Hardwicke being one of the party—on one occasion of our being there Hardwicke produced this bill (looking at one) with some others; all the other persons were present when he produced it; he had some blank forms that he had brought from Australia, and a forgery was to be committed by copying this; the bill and the other papers were given to Saward; these (produced) are some of the blank forms, this one was in blank—the whole of the papers were given to Saward—Saward afterwards told me that he had the bills ready to present at the bankers; we were then at the same house, the beef house—we were all present—he did not produce any that evening; he told me there were two bills, one for 1, 000l., and I believe the other was to be for 900l.; but I saw nothing of them on that occasion—I saw the 1, 000l. bill on the morning it was presented at the bank—this is it (produced)—(The 200l. bill was here read; it was dated Hobart Town, Feb. 16, 1856, payable to the order of Mr. William Crosby and Co., at Messrs. Heywood's. The 1, 000l. bill was dated Hobart Town, Jan. 18, 1856, payable to the order of Mr. F. R. T. Riley, at Heywood and Co.'s, with the following receipt written on it: "Received per Heywood and Co. F. R. Riley.")—About this time I happened to be at a hatter's, in Bread-street, Cheapeide, with Hardwicke and Anderson—whilst we were there a young man came in to ask if they knew of a situation—(the witness Clemence was here called in)—that is the young man—he was told that they did not know of one, and he went out—Hardwicke followed him out, and spoke to him—he came back and told us that the young man was out of a situation, and that he was a very likely man to suit Anderson to go to the bankers to take the bill that was to be presented—this was told to Saward—Saward was not there at that time, I believe we met in the evening at the beef house, as we called it; it was there arranged that a letter should be addressed to this young man, and I believe Hardwicke went to him, and left a letter at his house—an apartment was taken in a turning out of the Kingsland-road—Anderson there assumed the name of Riley—we met that morning at a public house in Old-street—road; afterwards we met in Inglefield-road—we got there rather early, I suppose about 9 o'clock in the morning—I believe the sign of the house was the Inglefield Arms, but I am not positive, I know it was some Arms—it is a largish house with a small bit of grass plot in front, and stabling, and coach house at the back—the rooms were not ready for customers, and a female came in to make some apology about the house being dirty, and not being cleared up—Hardwicke produced a 20l. note at that house; pen and ink was brought by the servant I believe, or a female; Hardwicke gave it to Saward, and he wrote an address upon it—this is the note (produced)—this is what Saward wrote, "R. Riley, No. 2, De Beauvoir-place, Kingsland-road"—that was the place where the lodgings were taken by Anderson in the name of Riley—Clemence was to go into the City to get the note cashed; it was a sort of trial, to see whether he was capable of going right for the 1, 000l. bill—he was sent to get the note changed, and to bring two 10s. bill stamps from the City—Clemence came there and was dispatched with the note—I saw him
return, he brought the two stamps with him—Anderson sent Clemence out, I believe to go and get some refreshment, while he brought the stamps to Saward—we were still at the public house; Saward took one of the stamps and placed it on the back of the 1, 000l. bill, and wrote the address across the stamp—the change for the 20l. note was given to Anderson, and he gave it to Hardwicke, it was Hardwicke's note; the other 10s. stamp was given to me to take care of—I kept it, it was in my pocket book; this is it (produced)—when the stamp was put on, and the 1, 000l. bill was ready, Anderson took it from the public house—he was then dressed, and had his wig on—Clemence was sent with the bill—I followed him, I rode down on the same bus with him to the City—Hardwicke and Saward also went in the neighbourhood of the banking house, not to the bank—Anderson was to wait at a public house in Bishopsgate churchyard, or passage, whilst the bill was being presented—Clemence went to Heywood's bank, I do not know whether it is in Lombard-street, it is on the same side of the way as the Mansion House, in King William-street, I think—I saw him go in with the bill—Saward was at that time waiting under the clock, right opposite, not the clock that sticks out, but the one under the archway, in King William-street, near the old Post-office—Hardwicke followed the young man into the banking house—soon after, Hardwicke came out and gave me a sort of signal, and I went in directly after him—I saw that the money was stopped; it had been paid to the young man by the appearance, but I could see by the finish of it that the money was being taken back—I then came out and went away with Saward and Hardwicke—I saw Saward outside in the passage—I went to him and told him that the money was not paid, and we all went to Anderson at the public house in Biahopsgate Churchyard, where he was supposed to be waiting till our return—we waited there some little time, and then separated—after this I employed Mr. Turner again, in the same way as before—I think T went there on the Monday as the bill foiled on the Saturday—we met at a public house, I believe in Duke-street, Lincoln's Inn-fields, to arrange the second application to Mr. Turner—Anderson, myself Saward, and Hardwicke were there, and another person who had the blanks, those that were written out, forged—an I O U was then written—I cannot call to my recollection now the name of the supposed debtor in that case, there have been so many different names—I believe Hart was the name—I went to Mr. Turner's and gave instructions in the same way; the debt was 103l., I think, I cannot tell exactly—a lodging was taken by Anderson for the supposed Mr. Hart, in the New-road, near St. Pancras Churc—a few days after the 103l. was advanced by Hardwicke—he sent it to Mr. Turner by some person—a few days after it had been sent, I called at Mr. Turner's—I still kept the name of Hunter—they told me that the debt had been paid, but Mr. Turner was not within when I called in the morning—on calling again, I got a cheque, this is it (produced), and this is the receipt I signed—(The cheque teas dated, June, 24th, 1856, on Gosling and Sharp, for 103l. 8s. 10d., signed Alfred Turner. The receipt was of same date, and signed H. Hunter.")—Mr. Turner wrote me the cheque, and I brought it out and gave it to Saward—he took it away for a short time, and brought it back in about an hour and a half, to the public house in Duke-street—he did not produce any other cheque at that time; he said he would get the blank cheques from the person who had them; that was the person who was with him that morning, but he had not got them with him—I was told that those cheques were got out of Mr. Turner's pocket book by robbery—Saward
returned me the cheque that I had received from Mr. Turner; I took it to the banker's, and got the money; I received a 100l. note; I gave it to Havdwicke, it was his money—About this time several letters were written to persons who advertised for situations; among them was one near Moruington-crescent—I saw the young man that came there—Anderson had taken a lodging there, I do not remember in what name just now; he was to meet him at the University Hotel, in Tottenham Court Road; I do not remember the day—I, and Anderson, and Saward, met together the first thing that morning, at a public house in the neighbourhood of the New-road, Hardwicke waiting in the neighbourhood of the banking house to see whether the young man came, because it was some distance—Saward produced a cheque—I believe this to be the one—(This was a cheque for 410l. 7s. 4d., dated 28th June, 1856, on Gosling and Sharp, signed Alfred Turner)—the cheque was given to Anderson, to give to the young man, to take to the bank—I was to watch the young man to the bank—I saw the young man leave the University Hotel, and go to the bank—I followed him—(the witness Hardy was called in)—I believe that to be the young man—Hardwicke went inside the banking house whilst the young man was there; I did not go in—it had been arranged that if the young man came out, I was to follow him—I followed him back to Mornington-crescent; as he was going along, he was stopped by Anderson, and I saw him hand the money to Anderson; I did not hear what passed—we subsequently met at a public house near the Haymarket Theatre, I, Anderson, and Saward, and the other man that was with us; Hardwicke was not there—we waited some time for Hardwicke, but he did not come; we then went to a coffee house in the neighbourhood of the Blackfriars-road, I do not remember the sign; it was leading up the Elephant and Castle way, in the same road; Saward said he knew where he could find Hardwicke if he was at home, and he went and fetched him—eight 50l. notes were then produced, and some gold, the difference of the cheque for 410l. 17s. 4d.—Hardwicke had the notes; he gave cash for them at the time; he gave 35l. for each 50l. note—the money was divided into five parts, for me, Saward, Anderson, Hardwicke, and the other person not in custody; he had a share because he found the three blank cheques; he had produced them, and given them to Saward; he had them from Mr. Turner; he picked his pocket, I believe; he was considered entitled to a fifth share—Hardwicke and I then went to Hamburg with the 50l. notes, and got them changed there—In Aug. last I remember a transaction of the same kind at Hankey's bank; Hardwicke received a check from some one who I do not know, for a small amount of money; he showed it to Saward, Saward said that he had some blanks which would fit it—we met by appointment at the house in Bishopsgate-churchyard, where we had met before; I Saward, Hardwicke, and Anderson, attended that meeting; it was on a Saturday—Saward then produced some cheques (looking at three cheques, one for 60l., and two for 100l., signed Daniel Baldwin)—these are what he produced—he said that Anderson was to take them, one of them which he gave him first, for 50l. to the White Hart, in Bishopsgate street, and send the boots from there with it—the did so—Saward was to be at the Magpie, in Bishopsgate-street—we all four went to the Magpie, and there arranged our business, in the back parlour—I was to watch the man to the banker's, as I did before; I do not know his name—I should know the young man; that is him (looking at Mitchenton)—I went to the banker's after him—I did not see the cheque paid, Hardwicke saw the first cheque paid; I was outside the
bank—I saw the young man come out, and followed him back—when I got to the Magpie, Anderson and Saward were there—we told them that the cheque was paid, and Anderson went over to the White Hart, and received the money from the young man, and brought it over to the Magpie; it consisted of three 10l. notes, and the rest in gold—I took those three 10l. notes to Mr. Baum's, in Leadenhall-street, and got Napoleons for them—I wrote the name of Hunter on the back of the notes—these are them (produced)—I brought the Napoleons back to the Magpie; Saward, Anderson, and Hardwicke, were there—I gave the gold to Saward—another cheque for 100l. was then given to Anderson, one of these, to go to the Four Swans, and the porter of the Four Swans was sent with it by Anderson; I followed him; and saw that it was paid; the other cheque was not sent that day, it was too late—we had 150l. that day altogether—Hardwicke took a portion of the notes that were received for the 100l. cheque, at 8l. 10s. each note—the money was equally shared among us, Saward taking a portion something more than the rest for finding the blanks, as he called them—we met again on the Monday, against Gregory's Hotel, in Cheapside; it was arranged that the other 100l. cheque should be sent from there—I did not go into Gregory'a myself, no one but Anderson went in there; we went to a house somewhere at the bottom of Wood-street, Cheapside; I do not know the sign of the house, but it is something of a booking office as well as a public house; it was arranged that I and Hardwicke were to go and watch the young man who took the 100l. cheque from Gregory's—(looking at Richard Sounders) I believe that is the young man—we went to the public house in Wood-street before the cheque was sent, me, Anderson, Saward, and Hardwicke were there—I believe some money was given to me there, money passed to me; it was Hardwicke's money, I believe Hardwicke gave it to me—Saward was present; it was 50l.—I cannot say who gave me the money, but Saward was present, whether I received it out of Saward's hands or Hardwicke's, it was Hardwicke's money I know; they were both present—it was given to me for the purpose of going into the banker's with, so that if I was asked what business I had there, I should pay in that money to go into the country, upon the cheque being stopped—Anderson took the 100l. cheque, and the young man took it from Gregory's Hotel; it was not paid—I directly returned to Wood-street—I found Anderson and Saward there—I told them what had happened—Soon after this I went to Yarmouth with Hardwicke; he had a cheque on a bank there—Saward was aware of our going to Yarmouth—Hardwicke went somewhere about a week before I did, I joined him there—he went by the name of Ralph, I went by the name of Attwood—at Yarmouth I employed several solicitors to write for debts, as I had Mr. Turner; I went to Yarmouth for that purpose—I went to the offices of Mr. Chamberlain, Messrs. Reynolds and Palmer, and Mr. Preston, and to Miller and Son, of Norwich—the names of the debtors in London to whom I directed them to write were, I believe, Mr. Dixon and Mr. Jones—Anderson had arranged to take places in London to receive the letters that should be sent—(looking at three letters) I received these letters from Saward, in London; I came up to London with Hardwicke to pay the money into the banker's here—I went and paid in some at the Royal British Bank, in Threadneedle-street, and I believe Anderson paid in some money at Barclay's; I did not see him pay it in, he went with Hardwicke—he told me when he came back that he had paid it in; it was something over 100l. for the debts—upon that day we dined together at the bottom
of Queen-street, I, Saward, Anderson, and Hardwicke; we had some chops and potatoes for dinner; I think it was on a Thursday or Friday, but I cannot say—on that occasion I saw Saward write these three letters (producect); he wrote them in my presence; we were all four together—these letters were sent to the persons at Yarmouth and Norwich—soon after this I was taken into custody.
WILLIAM SALT HARDWICKE . I am now a prisoner in Newgate, under sentence of transportation for life. Many years ago I was sentenced to a term of transportation for felony from Brecon; I expiated a crime that I never committed; I was transported to Van Diemen's Land—I established myself in business at Hobart Town—after the expiration of my term of transportation I returned to England, and continued to return about every three years—I have known Saward from twenty-four to twenty-six years, perhaps a little longer, I cannot confine myself to a year or two—I had known him some years previous to my first conviction for felony—on my occasional visits to this country from Van Diemen's Land, I used to see Saward from time to time—this day twelve months I took my passage at Melbourne, and arrived here on 26th May last—I and my wife took lodgings in Nelson-square, Blackfriars-road—shortly afterwards I met Saward in Suffolk-street, Borough—he met me with astonishment, and asked me how long I had been in England—I said some time; I did not satisfy him at first how long I had been here—he said, "How is it you have never called upon me?"—I said, "I never intended to call, from the manner in which you have treated me, I never intend to call upon you again"—he said, "Oh! never mind, old fellow, we will pay up all arrears, and we will go together, and get some money; I will put your passage money into your pocket again"—we drank together, and next day, or a few days after, I met him by appointment in Farringdon Market—he said that he would introduce me to the parties that he was then working with; I did not know their names at that time—I was introduced to them in June, in Farringdon Market, and we afterwards drank together at the Coach and Horses; I was introduced to Anderson and Atwell—Atwell was known by the name of Hawkes at that time; he was called Harry, Anderson was called Bob.—I subsequently met Anderson and Atwell at a house in Guildford-street, Southwark, which we called the beef house—when I came from Australia, I brought with me a bill of exchange for 200l., and others; this is one of them (produced)—I had about l, 200l. in Treasury bills; and I had some blank forms of bills with me—I had to draw on a house for 100l., and took the blank forms with me, but when I arrived there they had got the bills already drawn to accommodate me, so that I should not be delayed in going on board the ship, so I brought the blank bills to England with me—I met Saward at the beef house, and showed him what I had, and he said he thought some business might be done with them; we could go into business—I gave him the bill to take a copy from it for the purpose of taking Stephen's name off—I saw him on the following day, and he returned me the bill, saying he had done what ho wanted—I then paid the bill into Coutts's.
Q. In the course of conversation between you, Saward, and Anderson, what plan was to be adopted for the purpose of making use of the acceptances which he forged? A. I was to find the money for out of pocket expenses, and Anderson was to be the sender, that is, the sender of the forged bills, and Atwell was to be implicated to watch what took place—that was the plan arranged upon between us—shortly after this plan was
arranged I went with Anderson and Atwell to Townsend, the hatter's, in the neighbourhood of Cheapside, to purchase a large sized hat—Anderson was trying on the hat—Saward was not there, he was not in our company that morning—a young man named, Clemence came into the shop, to inquire for employment—after seeing that young man, I told Saward that a very likely young man had been into the hatter's shop, seeking for employment, and that I had got his address—Saward and I arranged that when the bill was ready, and we were to go into the transaction on the Saturday following, this young man was to be written to, to be engaged by Anderson—the taking the apartment was left to Anderson and Atwell—Saward had arranged with them to go and take the lodging for the purpose—I believe a lodging was taken, for that special purpose, somewhere by the De Beauvoir-road; I never went there—Saward met me in the Borough, and we went to the Kingsland-road—I think that was on a Saturday morning, 14th June—we went into a public house on that occasion, it was an old fashioned public house, for Anderson to change his dress; that was to put on his wig and whiskers—I do not remember the name of that public house—I had never been there before; I am speaking of where we first met, that was at the Sussex Arms in the house where we went afterwards in the Inglefield-road—I am confounding myself—previous to his taking the lodging, he had dressed at a public house in Kiogsland-road, but on this occasion he dressed at the Sussex Arms in the Inglefield-road—that was about 9 o'clock in the morning—we had some brandy and milk there—the landlady apologised for the room not being ready, having had company the evening previous; but I got the newspaper from her, and I held the newspaper, and pen and ink was called for—I had a 20l. note with me—I gave it, I think, into Anderson's hands, but Saward put the name and address upon it, across the nice of the note—I believe this is the note (looking at it)—that note was given to Clemeuce, its I understand, but I did not see it given—the change was handed over to me when he came back; 19l. and two 10s. stamps—Anderson gave the stamps to Saward; he pasted one on the back of the 1, 000l. bill, and filled up the date on the bill—(looking at it) this is the portion, written by Saward—that bill was afterwards given to Clemence for the purpose of being taken to Heywood's—I went to Hey wood's, and saw Clemence go in—I saw the money paid, and the last of the sovereigns put into the bag—after the sovereigns were put in, it was taken from Clemence's hand, and put on one side of the counter—in consequence of that I came out, and made a signal, and motioned Atwell to go in—Saward was waiting under the old Post Office-passage, in Lombard-street, by the clock—he was made aware of what had occurred, and he went off directly to tell Anderson that it had failed—we afterwards went into a public house in Bishopsgate-churchyard, and dined—upon a Monday soon afterwards, I, Saward, Anderson, and Atwell, met in reference to another transaction; that was about Mr. Turner's matter—Saward said that they had failed in the first instance in getting Mr. Turner's signature, not having sufficient money, but would I advance a further sum, say 100l. or so, for another application to be made to Mr. Turner; and let the money remain a few days in his hands, so that it should be paid into his bankers', and get his cheque—I advanced 104l., I think—we met in reference to that matter at a public house in Duke-street, Lincoln's Inn-fields—an I O U was written on that occasion by Saward, and given to Atwell—on the day when Atwell was to go to Mr. Turner's office, we were all in Kingsgate-street, waiting for him—Mr. Turner was not in at the first application—myself, Anderson,
Atwell, and Saward were standing in Kingsgate-street in front of the house, when Mr. Turner passed by, and Saward said, "That is Mr. Turner"—in a few minutes Atwell followed him into his office—he brought a cheque out with him, and it was given to Saward to take the signature from—I consented for him to take the cheque away (it was my money), and do what was necessary with it, to take a fac simile) of the signature—I was not at that time engaged with any person in reference to some blank cheques on Gosling's—I do not know the party at all; I have seen him—Anderson and Saward were the parties that had this man with the blank cheques—on Saturday, 28th June, we all met at a public house near St. Pancras Church—that was the day on which it was arranged to utter one of the cheques—a cheque for 410l. 7s. 4d., purporting to be signed by Mr. Turner, was given to a young man, and sent to the bank—I went to the bank myself—I went inside and saw the cheque presented—I was making inquiry about a dishonoured bill drawn by a Mr. Richards—that was merely to take the clerk's attention—I saw the money paid, and the man leave the place—I afterwards sought to meet Saward and Anderson, but I forgot the house where I was to meet them, and I went home, and from there I went to a Mrs. Dixon's, a cousin of mine, in Union-street, Borough-road; they have the care of St. Michael's Chapel—I said, if the elderly gentleman that used to call on me, should call and ask for me, to say I had been waiting for him, but I had gone home—on coming out of the gate I met Saward—he said, "It is all right, old boy; where have you been to?"—he took me to a coffee shop where the rest of the party were waiting; Anderson, Atwell, and the man that had brought the cheque—on that occasion there was a division of the produce of the forged cheques—I purchased the 50l. notes at the request of Saward—Saward put the price upon them, and I found the gold to pay—I gave 35l. each for the 50l. notes; it was all paid in gold—shortly after that, I and Atwell went to Hamburg, and there I changed the notes—I was away about seven or eight days—shortly after my return, a cheque on Messrs. Hankey's, signed by Mr. Baldwin, fell into my possession—I was going into the City to get it cashed, and I showed it to Saward—he said that he could fit it, meaning that he had got similar cheques—he said he could fit, it, he had other cheques of the same description; I left the cheque in his possession—I cannot say whether it was returned the same day or the following, but I had it returned in an envelope—I met Saward shortly after—I do not at this moment recollect at what particular house—we were in the habit of meeting at the Magpie and Stump, but we had so many meetings that I got confused with the different places—an arrangement was come to between Saward and myself with reference to some cheques upon Hankey's—he said as he could, fit the cheque, he should send in some cheques for money—he showed me three cheques prepared for that purpose, one for 50i., and two for 100l. each—on that Saturday two of those cheques were sent to be cashed by a young man, one from the White Hart in Bishopsgate-street—I went to Messrs. Hankey's as I had gone to the previous bank, and saw the first cheque paid—Saward, Anderson, and I were at different places that day—we did not part till the 100l. cheque was paid—I subsequently had an interview with Anderson and Saward on the subject, at the Magpie and Horseshoe, or the Magpie and Punchbowl, in Bishopsgate-street—we made an arrangement to meet on the Monday—we met on Monday at Gregory's Hotel, I think they call it, in Cheapside, under an archway—the other cheque was presented for payment that day—I had two of the 10l. notes, the proceeds of the cheques, and
Saward had two—I paid 8l. 10s. each for them in gold—I remember being at the Gresham Arms, in Wood-street—there was some money of mine counted out there on the table, bank-notes, and gold—that was in case any question should arise about a stranger being in the bank, he should pay in a sum to some one in the country, so as to be afterwards received—I believe the money passed between Atwell and Saward—I let them have the money out of my pocket, and they were counting it—I am not certain whether Atwell had it, or whether I had it, but it was returned to me—Atwell was at the table at the time, and he and Saward, I believe, were both counting it—shortly after I went down to Yarmouth in the name of James Ralph—I took a small furnished house in that name—before going, I made an arrangement that letters directed to James Ralph should be left at the Chapter Coffee-house, Paternoster-row—when I came to London, I found the Chapter Coffee-house was closed, and, as I understood it was in Chancery, I called on the persons inhabiting the house, and asked them, if any letters should arrive in the name of James Ralph, to take charge of them for me, and I would reward them for it, which I did—Saward went with me to the Chapter Coffee-house—I introduced him to the young girl who took in the letters, and told her if any letters arrived in the name of James Ralph, she was to be kind enough to give them to that gentleman, which was done.
Q. When you went down to Yarmouth, you were aware, I believe, that letters were to be sent to solicitors there? A. Atwell was to have the whole management of sending up to London to parties upon I O U's, and Anderson was to take lodgings in fictitious names, and receive the letters sent from the solicitors—after being some little time at Yarmouth, I came up to London to see the result of the letters, and to find the money to pay the proceeds to the different attorneys who had been applied to—I met Saward, Anderson, and Atwell in Queen-street on that afternoon—upon that occasion Saward wrote to the different parties whom Atwell had been in correspondence with about these assumed debts—in pursuance of the arrangement, I changed a 500l. note, and a 100l. note, to get 600l. in gold—the whole of the money remitted to the country was somewhere about 314l.—I found the balance very heavy to carry in my pocket, and being anxious to return to Yarmouth that evening, I paid 250l. into Barclay's bank—I paid it in in the name of Whitney, but I forgot to put that it was for James Ralph, the name that I was assuming at that time; I was flurried at the time—when I got to Yarmouth I applied through Messrs. Gurney's for the money, as James Ralph, and then discovered the mistake I had made—inconsequence of that I wrote to Saward under the name of James Ralph, at the Chapter Coffee-house—he got that letter, and returned an answer which I never got—I was apprehended on the 15th.
RICHARD MULLENS . I am the solicitor for this prosecution. I served a notice on the prisoner, Saward, on Saturday last, to produce a letter, dated 15th Sept. 1856, addressed to James Ralph, Esq., Chapter Coffee-house—I served that notice on Saward, in Newgate.
Saioard. I can produce no letter.
WILLIAM SALT HARDWICKE . re-examined. The letter I wrote to Saward was about the error I had made—I said I was afraid there would be a difficulty about it, and would he be kind enough to get Mr. Bob, meaning Anderson, to go to the bank, as he was with me at the time I paid the money in, and try to rectify it—I believe the writing on this envelope to be Sward's, unquestionably (looking at it)—this is a letter addressed to me.
WILLIAM GEORGE STURT . I live at Harfield-villas, St. Paul's-road, Islington, I am a commercial traveller. I am landlord of the house in which the prisoner, Saward, lived for about six or seven years—during that time I became acquainted with his handwriting—I believe this letter, dated 15th Sept., to be his writing—these three letters of 3rd Sept. resemble his handwriting very much, but I could not be so positive as I am of the previous one—I should believe them to be his—the name of Riley on this note I am not able to speak to, I cannot form an opinion as to that, it is not so firm as his general handwriting—I should say this (the 1, 000l. bill) is like his handwriting; "Received for Mr. Riley, John Clemence," I believe that to be his—these three letters of 11th Sept. bear a similarity to his writing—there is a resemblance, but I should not like to say that they are—I should not have acted upon them as coming from him, there is a similarity, but not so strong as the others, I have not looked at them all—the second one is more like; I believe that to be his, but I should not like to swear to the other two—I believe the direction to be his.
Saward. I have bad several communications with Mr. Sturt, and he ought to know my handwriting very well, so as to speak more positively, he hesitated and doubted very much—(These letters were here put in and read, one from Mr. Chamberlain, of Yarmouth, to Mr. Edward Dixon, of No. 10, Ampten-street, Gray's Inn-road, applying for payment of 104l. 3s. 5d., due to Mr. Henry Attwood; one from Messrs. Reynolds and Palmer, of Great Yarmouth, to W. H. Jones, No. 13, Union-terrace, Bagnigge Wells-road, for payment of 105l. 14s. 6d., due to the same person; and one from Messrs. Miller, Son, and Bugg, of Norwich, to the same person, for 105l. 14s., due to Mr. Henry Cornwall. Three letters, dated Sept. 3, purporting to be answers to the above, were also read; and three others, dated 11th Sept., stating that the money had been paid in to the bankers on that day—The following letter was also read: "James Ralph, Esq., No. I, Trafalgar-place, Great Yarmouth. Monday: I did not write on Saturday, because I expected today to have been able to have rectified fully your unfortunate mishap. Mr. Roberts attended again this morning at B—'s, to know their determination under the circumstances. It is this, that Mr. Whitney must attend himself at B—'s, and explain the matter, and sign a fresh note with his name, the same as he signed the paying in note, the writing of course being the same by comparison—they will then send a fresh note as instruction for G—'s to pay to James Ralph; the paying in note has been sent to G—'a, and they have it; they would not show it to Mr. Roberts when he applied there on Saturday, but said that Whitney had paid it in to his own credit. Now, I considered the matter seriatim yesterday, and you must do this, literally: just do as I state; go to G—'s, see the paying in note, mind you must see it; state you have written to Mr. Whitney, and he will rectify it at B—'s, and you will call on them again in a day or two. Come up directly, go to B—'s, write a fresh note for them to send to G—'s, and then return, and you will get the cash. Pray do not move further in other matters until this is arranged, I beg of you not to do so. I can see through a brick wall sometimes, and I see through one now; be guided by me, for I am generally secure by caution;cavendo tutus, as Ovid says. Mr. Roberts told B—'s this morning, that he thought Mr. Whitney might have gone on a tour of pleasure up the Rhine, but he did not know positively; they said they could not help it. If you can accomplish what you have to do, we will meet you to-morrow night, Tuesday, at 9, at the beef house, but if we do not see you there at that time, we will meet you the next day, Wednesday morning, at
12, where we had the chops when you were up on Thursday. Now, lastly, make no move in other matters until this is arranged. I have written fully, but I hope you will not think it a bore reading. Yours faithfully, J.—As we cannot see the note, and they will give no positive information as to it, you must see it to know its exact import, or the cash may remain longer in jeopardy. You must come up directly.")
JOSEPH BOLTON DOE . I am an iron founder, in Whitechapel I have an account with Messrs. Barclay and Co.—at Christmas, 1855, my premises were broken into—amongst other things, I lost three cancelled cheques—counterfoils and all were taken—they were taken out of the book—all the other counterfoils are there—these two cheques, which are now filled up, are the two that were taken away at that time—they are not in my handwriting—I authorised no one to sign them.
WILLIAM ISAIAH DUTTSON . I am cashier to Messrs. Barclay and Co., the bankers. This cheque for 46l. 15s. 6d., dated 10th Jan., 1856, was presented to me for payment—I paid it in two 10l. notes, and 26l. 15s. 6d. in cash.
MAUDESLEY LANCASTER DRAPER . In the beginning of last year I advertised for a situation—I received an answer; in consequence of which, I went to Leman-street, Goodman's-fields, to see a Mr. Davis—I saw a person there who called himself Davis—it was the prisoner Anderson—he sent me to Moore's auction rooms for a catalogue of to-morrow's sale—I went there—they told me they had no sale on to-morrow—I went back, and told Anderson so—he then gave me a cheque to take to Barclay, Bevan, Tritton, and Co., in Lombard-street—this cheque for 46s. 15s. 6d. looks like the same—I got the money for it, went back to Leman-street, and gave it to Anderson—I did not see him after that.
MARY ANN SMITH . I am the wife of Sampson Smith, of No. 103, Leman-street, Whitechapel. In Jan., last year, a person hired a room at my house—he gave the name of Davis—the prisoner Anderson is the person—he only came about an hour for two or three successive days—he did not sleep in the place—he said his luggage had not come—the last day he was there, the witness Draper came—he told me that he came in answer to an advertisement—Anderson came to the door, and called him in.
EDWARD BROWN . In the beginning of last year I advertised for a situation—I received an answer, directing me to go to No. 103, Leman-street, Whitechapel—I went there, and saw Anderson, and he engaged me for a situation to go down to Rugby—he told me he would go after my character, and meet me next day at the Eastern Counties Railway—he sent me to a house in Bishopsgate-street, to get a bill of their wholesale and retail prices of spirits, as he said he wanted to take some down to Rugby—I went, and got it, and gave it to him—he told me I could be gone half an hour; that I had no occasion to hurry myself, as his friend had not come up by the railway—he afterwards sent me to Barclay's banking house, in Lombard-street, with a cheque for 95l. 17s. 6d.—the name of Doe was on it—I believe this to be the cheque (looking at it)—I took it to Barclay's, and got the money—I was then walking towards London-bridge—I was going to Mr. Burrell's where I had lived as boots, to see whether he had been about my character—a young man tapped me on the shoulder, and asked me whether I was not going the wrong way—I told him I was not going the
wrong way; I was going over to Mr. Burreirs, as he had not said anything about the character—he advised me to go back with him—that was Atwell—I went back with him, and met Atwell in Bishopsgate-street—he took me into a public house, and there I gave him the money—he gave me 3s.—he asked me whether I wanted any money, and I said a little would do—he said he had been to Mr. Burrell's, but he was not at home, and he would wjrite next day, and let me know when to come down—he never did write.
ELIZABETH EVANS . I am a single woman. In the early part of 1856 I was living with Atwell as his wife—I lived with him for about two years and a half—I remember living in Cottagp-lane, in the City-road—Atwell went by the name of Hawkes, and I was called Mrs. Hawkes—I know Saward—I have seen him twice at Cottage-lane—the first time he came was to see Atwell—he was at home, and did see him—I did not hear anything pass between them—I should think he stayed about half an hour—they were in a room by themselves—I was in the same room—I cannot exactly say how long it was before he came again; I should think about a week or a fortnight—Atwell was not at home then—he came again, but then I was not at home—the second time that I saw him, Atwell was at home; he came into the parlour with Atwell—I was in the parlour when he came in—he spoke to Atwell, but I could not hear what it was that he said—he produced some papers like cheques on that occasion: he took them out of his pocket, and opened them—they were about the size of bankers' cheques; I could see some engraving at the back of them—these are the cheques (looking at the nine produced)—they remained in my possession for about four or five weeks, until Atwell was taken into custody—I kept them up stairs, on the chimney piece, in my bedroom—I moved from Cottage-lane, and took them with me—I was with Atwell at Yarmouth when he was taken into custody—I did not see Saward afterwards.
ELIZABETH HAYDON . I am the wife of Thomas Haydon, a wheelwright, of No. 20, Suffolk-street, St. Pancras'-road. Atwell is my nephew—n the early part of last year he was living in Cottage-lane, City-road, in the name of Hawkes—I used to go there nearly every day—I have seen Saward there—I first saw him in Feb., last year—he was standing against the Sportsman public-house, City-road, which is nearly opposite Cottage-lane—I was sent to him by Atwell with a message—I did not know him personally, only by the description Atwell had given me; I went up to him, and said, "I beg your pardon, sir; I hope you will excuse the liberty I am taking, but are you waiting for a gentleman of the name of Hawkes?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "He is engaged this morning, and will not be able to meet you, but he will meet you at the appointed place on Wednesday"—soon afterwards I happened to be at my nephew's when Saward called—I saw him—my nephew was not at home, and I told him so—a little after that, he called again while I was there; I let him in, and showed him into the parlour—while he was there with Atwell, I happened to go into the room, and I saw a small roll, about the size of my finger, lying on the table—I believe these cheques were the parcel I saw, but they were not folded in this manner; more like a roll—I saw these papers at my nephew's, for several days afterwards, on the chimney piece in the front room up stairs, my nephew's bed-room—they were then tied with a small portion of string.
CHARLES FREDERICK ASH . I am a timber merchant in Upper Thames-street—I have a banking account with Messrs. Smith, Payne, and Smith's—In the beginning of last year my premises were broken into—amongst other things I lost some cancelled cheques, and also some blank cheques taken out
of my book—these nine cheques are the cheques I lost—this cheque for 91l. is one of those that were taken from the book—I know it by the number—the writing on it is not mine, nor is it written by my authority.
COURT. Q. I see upon this there is orders not to pay; I suppose you took that precaution? A. Yes; I gave notice, after discovering the robbery, not to pay those numbers.
JAMES HUMPHREYS . In Feb. last I was out of a situation; I advertised for one, and in consequence of a letter which I received I went to Oakley-crescent, City-road, and inquired for a Mr. Hammond—I saw a person there calling himself Hammond—I believe Anderson to be that person—he first sent me to the railway, and then to the bank of Smith, Payne, and Smith's, in Lombard-street, with a cheque—I believe this cheque for 91l. to be the cheque I was sent with—it was not paid—I was detained—I did not see Anderson afterwards until he was in custody.
ANDREW STEPHENS . I am a cashier to Messrs. Bramah and Co., the engineers—they keep an account with Messrs. Ransom and Co.—the signatures to these three cheques are not the signatures of the partner who usually draws our cheques—they are a very good imitation of it—the filling up is an imitation of my writing—I always fill up the cheques—these have been returned by the bank, included in our account as paid.
GEORGE HENRY BOWELLS . In March, 1856, I was looking for a situation—I received a letter, in consequence of which I went to Stanhope-street, Regent's-park—I do not remember the number—I there saw the person who was supposed to have written to me—I asked for Mr. Bates—I think Anderson is the person I saw—he directed me to go to the Camden Town station to inquire if his luggage had come, and when I returned I was sent to Messrs. Ransom's, Fall Mall East, with a cheque for 87l. 10s—I believe this to be the cheque (looking at it)—I took it there, got the money, and gave it to Anderson at Stanhope-street—there was nobody else there at the time.
MARY ANN PARKER . I live at No. 16, Stanhope-street, Regent's-park—in March last year, a person took a room at my house in the name of Bates—Anderson is the person, I am sure of him—he stopped in the house half an hour—he did not sleep there at all—I did not see the young man come there, but I know he came; I saw him afterwards with the constable—I did not see him speak to Anderson, or Anderson to him.
JOHN WIGZELL . In April last I was out of a situation; I advertised in the Times—in consequence of receiving an answer I went to a house in Cumberland-street, Hackney-road—I there saw a person very much like Anderson; he went by the name of White—after talking about employing me, he sent me on a message to a street in Fenchurch-street, and when I came back he sent me to Messrs. Hankeys', the bankers, with a bill for 386l. 17s. 10d.; I presented the bill, but it was not paid, and I was detained—went back to Cumberland-street, but could not find Anderson.
LOUISA BARNES . I and my husband live at No. 16, Cumberland-street, Hackney-road—in April last a person came to hire apartments—Anderson is very much like that person—he took them in the name of White, and came the two following mornings—the next day I saw Wigzell at my house—the man washed his hands each day, and called for pen and ink.
bills in behalf of the firm—this bill for 386l. odd is not my handwriting, nor was it written by my authority.
JOHN CLEMENCE . I live in Devonshire. In June, 1856, I was up in town looking for a situation—among other places, I went to a hatter's in the neighbourhood of Cheapside, and inquired if they knew of any situation of the kind I wanted; after I left the shop Hardwicke followed me, and put some questions to me—I afterwards received a letter telling me to go to No. 3, Beauchamp-villas, Kingsland-road—I went there, and asked for Mr. Riley—Anderson opened the door to me, and answered to the name of Riley—he told me to call there the following day; I did so, and Anderson came to me with a 20l. Bank of England note; I was to get it changed, and to bring two adhesive 10s. stamps—I got the note changed, and got the stamps, and gave them to Anderson; he sent me on an errand; he afterwards gave me a bill of exchange for 1, 000l.—I went on an omnibus to the City, and took the bill to Hey wood's—it was not paid; they gave me part, and then stopped the rest, and I was detained—I did not see Anderson afterwards till I saw him at the Mansion House—I saw nothing of Saward—I believe the handwriting to this bill to be the same as the note that was written to me—I gave that note to Anderson to show I was the person that had been written to, and he kept it.
WILLIAM PIKE NICHOLLS . I am a cashier at Messrs. Heywood's. I remember this 1, 000l. bill being presented—I had begun to pay it, but had some misgivings, and stopped the money and the person who brought the bill—I did not quite like the appearance of the signature; the first part I considered a very good imitation, but not the second part; and the way in which payment was required seemed rather strange, 100l. in gold, eight 50l., and five 100l. notes.
ELIZABETH COLE . I reside at No. 3, Beauchamp-villas, Be Beauvoir Town, Kingsland—in June last a person took an apartment at my house in the name of Riley—Anderson is the person—I recollect the witness Clemence coming to him there.
SUSANNAH DAVIS . My husband keeps the Sussex Arms in Inglefield-road, Kingsland—early one morning in the course of last summer, I remember four persons coming to our house; it was between 9 and 10 o'clock—I can hardly remember whether or not the house was in order at the time; they ordered brandy and milk—our house has a small green before it—I cannot swear to any of the persons—I knew them all by sight in the general way of business, I think, but I cannot swear to their coming to the house that morning—I do not know that I ever saw them together—I know each individually—I think I have seen them at the house at various times—I have seen Anderson and Saward, and I have seen Atwell and Hardwicke—I have seen them all four at our house—I cannot say that I have seen them all four together—I cannot say that I have seen two or three of them together.
ROBERT WILSON . I am clerk to Mr. Alfred Turner, solicitor, of Red Lion-square. In April, 1856, I was employed by a person who gave the name of Hunter, to endeavour to recover a debt; it was the witness Atwell; the name of the debtor to whom I was to apply, was Mr. John Hesp, of No. 58 Charrington-street, Oakley-square—the money was afterwards paid to Mr. Turner, and I gave it to Atwell—I got a cheque for it, got it cashed, and gave it in cash to Atwell—he came again on 19th June,
and instructed me to write for 103l. to a Mr. Hart, of Milton-street, Euston-square—I wrote, and on 21st June the money was brought—on the 24th I paid Atwell by a cheque on Gosling's—this is the cheque, and this is the receipt he gave me.
ALFRED TURNER . I am a solicitor, in Bed lion-square. In March, last year, I lost a pocket book, I cannot say in what way—I believe it contained some blank cheques on Gosling's—I remember Atwell applying at my office about the recovery of two debts, he saw my clerk, Mr. Wilson, who mentioned it to me—this cheque for 103l. was the cheque given on the second application—this cheque for 410l. is not my writing, or written by my authority, I think it is an imitation.
ELIZABETH SHOEBROOK . I live in Charrington-street, Oakley-square. A person going by the name of Hesp engaged a back parlour at my house last year, Anderson is the person—he took the apartment on the Tuesday, and said he would send his luggage—it never came, he called on the Thursday—two letters had come during that time, I gave them to him, and never saw him any more.
ELIZA BREWER . I live at No. 35, Cardington-street, Hampetead-road; in June last I lived in Milton-street, Euston-square. In June last a person hired a parlour at our house in the name of Hart, it was Anderson—he said if any letters came would I be kind enough to take care of them; a letter came on the Tuesday evening—he fetched it away on Wednesday morning—a second letter came on Friday evening; that was given to him on Saturday morning—I saw nothing more of him after that.
AUGUSTUS BAILEY BUSHNELL . I am a cashier at Messrs. Goslings, the bankers—this cheque for 410l. odd was presented on the 28th June—I paid it in eight 50l. notes, and the rest in gold and silver—I know Hardwicke, he was in the bank at the time, and put some questions to me at the time the cheque was being presented.
WILLIAM HARDY . In June last I was out of employment. I advertised for a situation, and in consequence of a letter which I received I went to Albert-road, Regent's-park—I inquired for a Mr. Taylor, and saw the prisoner Anderson—he engaged me, and I was to meet him at half past 1 o'clock the following day, at the University Hotel—I went there, and he sent me with a cheque for 410l. to Gosling's; he told me to ask for eight 50l. notes, and the rest in gold—I went and did it; as I returned I met Anderson, by Mornington-crescent, and gave him the money; I never heard anything more of him.
JONATHAN GRIERSON . I am cashier at Messrs. Hankeys, the bankers. Messrs. Smith and Knight keep an account there; their cheques are signed by Mr. Baldwin, their managing man—on Saturday, 16th Aug. last, this cheque for 50l. was presented to me for payment; it purports to be signed by Mr. Baldwin—I paid it in three 10l. notes, and the rest in gold—on that same day this cheque for 100l. was also presented to me for payment—I paid it in six tens and the rest in gold; that also purports to be signed by Mr. Baldwin—on the next Monday a third cheque was presented for 100l., purporting to be signed by Mr. Baldwin, I did not pay that.
DANIEL BALDWIN . I am in the employment of Messrs. Smith and Knight, railway contractors; it is part of my duty to draw cheques on their behalf—these cheques for 50l. and two for 100l. are not signed by me, or by my authority.
into the coffee room and saw Anderson sitting in one of the boxes—he asked me to go to the bank and change a cheque for him; this is the cheque, it is for 50l., on Messrs. Hankey's—I went and got three 10l. notes and the rest in gold, and brought it back to the White Hart—Anderson was not there then, he came in a few minutes afterwards, and I gave him the money—I did not see him afterwards till I went to Newgate.
GEORGE ENGLISH . In Aug. last, I was boots at the Four Swans Tavern, in Bishopsgate-street. On a Saturday in that month, in consequence of something the waiter Raid to me, I went into the coffee room and saw the prisoner, Anderson—he asked me to change a cheque for him for 100l.—this is it—he asked me to get him six 10l. notes and 40l. in gold—I took it to Messrs. Hankey's bank, got the money, took it back to the coffee room, and gave it to Anderson; he was not there when I got back.
ELIZABETH DIXON . I live in Chapel-court, Union-street, Blackfriars-road, Hardwicke is my mother's nephew. I know Saward as Mr. Sharp—I remember his leaving a letter at my house—at that time I had heard of Hardwicke being in custody—he called on me after the letter was left, my mother was present at that time—he asked me if I had heard from Mr. Hardwicke, or seen anything of him—I told him that the officers had been to the square, and searched Mr. Hardwicke's apartments—Hardwicke lived in Nelson-square at that time—Saward seemed very much surprised—I then said to him that the officers had been there, and they expected to find some plate—he said, indeed, he could not make that out at all—I then said to him, "Sir, as you are a friend of Mr. Hardwicke's, of course you know his affairs, have you no idea what he is detained in Yarmouth fort?"—he said, "Well, there is nothing of any consequence there, but there is no telling what it may lead to"—he then asked me where the letters were that he had left for him—I gave them to him—they were directed to Hardwicke; one of the letters was the one that Saward had brought himself; I gave those letters to him, and he burnt them—he said, if any inquiries were made at my house whether any letters were left there, I was to say, "Yes, there were letters left there for a gentleman of the name of Sharp, but a lady called for them."
MARY WILLIAMS . I am the mother of Mrs. Dixon. I was there when Mr. saward came, he did not say what his name was; I did not recollect him till he made himself known to me, I had seen him once some years before—he said to my daughter, "Have you seen Hardwicke, do you know when they are coming home?"—I believe my daughter said, "My mother has just come to tell me"—I had heard something unpleasant, and had gone to my daughter's to tell her, but had not had time to do so up to that moment—he asked if there were any letters in the name of Sharp—my daughter said yes, she had two—he said, "Burn them"—I looked at him, and touched my daughter and said, "Let the gentleman burn them himself if it is anything wrong," and he put them in the fire.
SAMUEL COLE . I am now living at Warwick. In Aug. last, I was barman at the Magpie, in Bishopsgate-street, Mr. Wimbush was the landlord—I remember on a Saturday in that month some persons being there that attracted my attention—there was one person in particular who was there for the greater part of the day, it was the prisoner Saward—I did not see any other persons with him, but there were two going in and out; I know one of those two, it was the grey-headed gent; I have seen him here today, it was Hardwicke—I have seen Anderson before, but not to know anything of him—I did not see him at the Magpie that day—Saward came there about 11 o'clock, and staid till something like 4 or 5 o'clock in the
afternoon—I did not see the two persons who came in speak to Saward, because I was busy taking the orders into the parlour, and waiting on the bar—Saward was in the parlour; they went into that room, there was only that one room to go in—they went to Saward.
EDWARD JOHN WIMBUSH . I am the landlord of the Magpie, in Bishops-gate-street. On Saturday, 16th Aug., Cole called my attention to some person being there for some time; I walked into the parlour to look round, and saw the prisoner Saward—I would not swear it was him, I feel confident that it was, but he sat in such a bad light, that I had not a good view of his face—I believe it was him, I have very little doubt about it—I did not see him more than once that day—I did not see any other person there, I was out part of the day—I can fix the very day of this, in consequence of having paid a doctor's bill that day—it was 16th Aug.
RICHARD SAUNDERS . I was a porter at Gregory's Hotel, in the course of last year. On Monday, 18th Aug., a person came there, and sent me to a banker's—I believe it was Anderson—he gave me a 100l. cheque to take to Hankey's—I took it, but it was not paid, and I was detained—this is very like the cheque (looking at it), I think it must be the same.
WILLIAM HENRY KNIGHT . I am a clerk to Messrs. Chaplin and Horne. I was at the Gresham Arms, in Wood-street, one morning in the course of last summer—I cannot say the day of the week or the day of the month, for I am there nearly every day—I was in the parlour, I saw Atwell there, and I have every reason to believe, Saward; there was a third person, that was Hardwicke—Atwell and Saward were sitting together at a table—I saw gold passing from the person I suppose to be Saward to Atwell—Hardwicke went out to fetch the directory, I do not think he was present when the gold passed, I thought they were on business and withdrew; before I withdrew, I was sitting at the same table with them.
MARGARET HARDWICKE . I am the wife of the witness Hardwicke. I live at No. 20, Nelson-square, Blackfriars-road—my husband was an acquaintance of Saward's for many years—I am not certain whether they were acquainted before my husband went to Australia for the first time, I fancy I had seen Saward before, but I cannot be positive, I always accompanied my husband, except once, I then remained in Australia—Saward visited us frequently in London; the first time I knew him, he lived at Kennington Cross; we then lived in Goswell-street—Mrs. Saward visited us once, and I visited them once at Kennington Cross—Saward frequently came to see us in the evening, he has been two or three times a week—my husband was not in any way of business at that time, he was having remittances from Australia, he had no business with Saward that I know of.
MARY ANN HARRISON . I am the wife of Mr. Harrison, of Rosoman-street, Clerkenwell. I am a cousin of Mrs. Hardwicke's, in 1844 they lived in Wellington-street, Goswell-street—at that time, Saward was an acquaintance of their's—I have seen him there very frequently, they appeared to be intimate, he took tea there.
ANN FRYER . I live at Bray. I knew Mr. and Mrs. Hardwicke in 1844, when they lived in Wellington-street, Goswell-street; I know Saward—he was frequently at our house—he appeared to be very intimate with Hardwicke.
MARY BOXALL . I live at Mr. Turner's, at the Crown and Anchor, Guildford-street, Southwark. I am there as a friend, I make it my home—in the course of the last summer, I used to see the prisoners there—the
first time they came, they wanted some refreshment, and we sent out for some boiled beef—I also recognise Hardwicke and Atwell—I can only call to mind two occasions on which I have seen them there together.
ELIZABETH WILLIAMS . I live at the Chapter coffee house, in Paternoster-row. It has been left in charge of my brother-in-law, Charles Ogborn; I knew Hardwicke by the name of Ralph—he came to the Chapter coffee house several times, to call for letters—I recollect his coming with a friend, Mr. Saward; he said that he was going away into the country, and for the future, would I give him the letters, and he would forward them on to him; letters came directed for Mr. Ralph, and I delivered them to Saward.
COURT. Q. Did you understand his name to be Saward, or did he mention any name? A. They did not mention his name, merely as a friend, no name was mentioned—I did not know him before.
CHARLES OGBORN . (City policeman, 26). I am the brother-in-law of the last witness—I had the care of the Chapter coffee house—I remember letters being left there for Mr. Ralph—I know Saward—I saw him come to the door of the Chapter coffee house twice; I do not know what he called for the first time, I was then in the street, off duty, in private clothes; the second time he came for letters, my sister-in-law gave him some, they were addressed to Mr. Ralph.
CAROLINE HILL . I live in Union-terrace, Bagnigge-wells-road. In Aug. or Sept. last the prisoner Anderson took a lodging at my house, in the name of Jones, for a friend that was coming from Brighton—two letters came—he called for them, and I gave them to him—I think they were from Yar-mouth—I think this is one of the letters (looking at one)—it looks very much like it, I go by the handwriting.
ELIZABETH ATTWOOD . I live at No. 18, Ampton-street, Gray's Inn Road. A person hired a lodging at my house in Aug. or Sept. last, in the name of Dixon—it was the prisoner Anderson—he said he hired it for a friend; he said I was to take in any letters that came in the name of Edward Dixon—a letter came; I gave it to my child, and she delivered it to him.
CHARLES HENRY CHAMBERLAIN . I am an attorney at Yarmouth. On 30th Aug. a person calling himself Atwood came to me, and instructed me to apply for a debt—it was the prisoner Atwell—in consequence of his instructions, I wrote a letter to a Mr. Edmund Dixon, at No. 18, Ampton-street, Gray's-inn-road, for the payment of 104l—I afterwards received these two letters, dated the 3rd and 11th of Sept., purporting to come from Mr. Dixon.
CHARLES JOHN PALMER . I am a solicitor, practising at Great Yarmouth. On 30th Aug. the prisoner Atwell gave me instructions to apply for payment of a debt for 105l. 14s., due by William Henry Jones, of Union-terrace, Bagnigge-wells-road—I wrote a letter, and received these two of the 3rd and 11th of Sept, in reply—I received, through Messrs. Gurney and Co., bankers at Yarmouth, 105l., in conformity with the intimation in these letters.
HENRY BLAKE MILLER . I am a solicitor at Norwich. I know Atwell by the name of Henry Cornwall—he applied to me on the 1st of Sept. to write to a Mr. Jones, of Union-terrace, Bagnigge-wells-road, for 105l. 14s.—I afterwards received two letters from Mr. Jones, dated 3rd and 11th Sept.—I also received an amount of money, of which this letter gave me advice.
JAMES EAGLETON . I am a waiter at the Sugar-loaf public house, Queen-street, Cheapside. In Sept. last I remember four persons coming there, and having some refreshment—they had chops and steaks—Saward was one of the four, and Hardwicke was another—they were writing.
ALFRED WHITTINGTON MORRIS . I am clerk to Messrs. Barclay and Co., bunkers. On the 11th of Sept last, the sum of 250l. was paid into the country department of the bank, in the name of Whitney, for the purpose of being transmitted to Gurney and Co., of Yarmouth—Hardwicke was the person who made that payment—a few days afterwards, the prisoner Anderson came to make inquiries about that money, and requested me to send it in the name of James Ralph—no name had been given by the person who paid it in—I inquired of Anderson where Mr. Whitney was; he said he had gone to Germany or up the Rhine.
JOHN MOSS . I am one of the officers of the City police. On 26th Dec. last I went with Huggett to No. 9, John-street, Oxford-street, for the purpose of apprehending Saward—it is a sort of dining-room—I inquired for Mr. Hopkins; I was told that Mr. Hopkins had just gone out; that he had been gone three or four minutes—that was said by a female who came from the back room—she said that he was gone to the second public house on the left hand side in Oxford Market—upon that Huggett went to Oxford Market, and I remained at the house—shortly after Huggett had gone, I observed the door leading into the room at the back very gently close—I went and looked into the room, and saw the prisoner Saward—I said, "Oh! Mr. Hopkins, we have been looking for you"—he said, "My name is not Hopkins, Sir;" I said, "No, I believe it is Saward;" he said, "You are quite mistaken"—at this time Huggett returned—we then charged him with being concerned with Hardwicke, Atwell, and Anderson in forging a bill for l, 000l. on Heywood, Kennard, and Co., of Lombard-street, on the 14th Jan.—he said he knew nothing about the forgery or the parties; he said he should not go with us unless we forced him; he meant merely placing our hands upon him—when we were about to remove him, he said, "Before you remove me, I shall be glad if you would allow me to go to the closet;" I said, "Yes; but before you go there, we must see what you have got"—Huggett searched him, and took from his pocket two blank cheques of the London and Westminster Bank, St. James's branch—these are them (produced)—Saward said, "Oh! they are nothing; destroy them"—after that he did not wish to retire, as he had done before—nothing more was said—we put him into a cab, and brought him into the City—he said, "Well, I suppose it is no use holding out any longer; my name is Jim Saward."
Saward, I denied that strenuously at the Mansion House, and I deny it now most emphatically; I should not think of making use of the observation, "I am Jim Saward;" common sense must tell you so.
JOSEPH HUGGETT . I belong to the City police—I accompanied Moss—I went to Oxford Market, leaving him in the house in John-street—on my return I saw Saward and Moss together—I said to the prisoner, "I believe your name is James Saward, and we shall require you to go to the City with us"—he said, "I am not the person you allude to"—I said, "Well, we are two officers belonging to the City, and we charge you with forging and uttering, on the 14th June, a bill of exchange for l, 000l. on Heywood and Co.'s bank, of Lombard-street; likewise with being concerned with Hardwicke, Anderson, and Atwell, now in custody"—he said, "I do not know the parties you allude to, neither am I the person you take me to be"—he was taken into custody, and brought into the City—as we came along in the cab, after a little conversation he said, "Well, I suppose it is no use my holding out any longer, I am Jim Saward"—I told him then that I should
have to make use of that before the Magistrate, as he had all along denied his name to me.
Saward. I deny it; I certainly said in the cab, "You ought to have let me retire, for it was requisite I should do so;" and when I got to the station house, I asked him to let me retire; he did, and I retired.
Saward's Defence. I shall leave the case in the hands of your Lordship, as far as I am concerned; I am quite unprepared, being quite unrepresented.
Anderson. I have nothing to say.
SAWARD— GUILTY . Aged 58.
ANDERSON— GUILTY . Aged 36.
Transported for Life.
(There were other indictments against the prisoners.)
NEW COURT.—Thursday, March 5th, 1857.
PRESENT—MR. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. WIRE.; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and Sixth Jury.
MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.
CHRISTOPHER CUFF . I am registrar at the Westminster County Court. On 27th Jan. this summons (looking at it) came on to be heard before Mr. Bailey—Mary Simpson was the plaintiff, and Mr. Cregreen was the defendant—Mary Simpson was sworn—I heard her give evidence—there was only one particular point that made much impression on my mind; I remember her swearing that she had lent sums of money to the defendant—she was asked on cross-examination whether the defendant had ever been surety for her to a loan society, and she said he had not—I have no particular recollection of anything else—after she had given evidence, the case was adjourned till 4th Feb.—I was not present when the documents were produced, but I was when she was ordered into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. When the prisoner was asked if she had had a loan from a society, was any promissory note produced or shown to her? A. No; I have no distinct remembrance of her being asked whether any person was present when she lent money to the defendant—I know there was something of that kind—I think she said that the defendant's wife and servant were present when she lent him money—I am not able to say whether she was examined on the second day.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Were some papers put into her hand? A. I saw some papers—I think they were put into her hand as a sort of warning when she was asked about the loan—I do not know whether these are the papers.
JAMES AUSTIN . I am clerk to my father, who is the attorney in this case—I was present when the case was tried—Mary Simpson was sworn—I recollect my attention being called more particularly to the fact regarding a certain loan—after she had been warned, she stated, in answer to a question put by my father, that she never had a loan—that Mr. Cregreen was not security for the payment of that loan, and Mr. Tomsett was not joint security with Mr. Cregreen—my father then cautioned her to be careful how she answered—he had these two notes in his hand, and he read from them, and said, "Have you not had money from the Brunswick
Street branch office?"—she said, "No; never—she also swore that she had lent Mr. Cregreen money in July, and several other months in 1856, and that Mr. Cregreen never advanced her any money at all—she was asked whether Mr. Cregreen had lent her money; she said, no, he had put his name down to certain papers as subscriptions for her, but never paid her any money.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not your father ask her who was present at any time when the money was advanced? A. Yes; she said that Mr. Cregreen's wife was present on some occasions—and she said that the servant had borrowed money of her on Mr. Cregreen's account—Mr. Oregreen was then the defendant—11l. 10s. was the amount that she said she had lent—there was money on both sides struck off—the defendant pleaded a set off—this is the set off—it is my writing—a portion was struck off because they were transactions with the husband.
DANIEL CREGREEN . I am an assistant engineer. This defendant's husband was foreman to Mr. Jay, the contractor, but under my direction—in consequence of that, I became acquainted with the prisoner and her husband—Mary Simpson never lent me any money—I have lent money to her on repeated occasions; and, amongst other matters, I am sorry to say, I became security for her. to a loan society—this is my signature to this paper (looking at it)—she signed it also, and William Tomsett was the other surety—this is dated 21st July, 1856, and is a promissory note to pay 3l., at twenty days after date for value received; it is signed Mary Simpson, William Tomsett, (a boot and shoe maker,) and Daniel Cregreen—I did not receive the money.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you not on very friendly terms with the late Mr. Simpson? A. As far as friendship was concerned, I was on amicable terms with him, because he was foreman under my superintendence—we were on friendly and intimate terms—I have lent money to him on several occasions—I may have borrowed of him to meet contingencies—at the time of his death, I continued on friendly terms with the widow—I did her all the service that laid in my power, for the sake of her family—I got up more than one, two, or three subscriptions for her—I think the first was 5l. subscribed—I do not know the exact amount—I headed it with a sum, and I paid the sums over to the prisoner—I put my name down half a sovereign—I swear that—I did not get up a couple of raffles, but I instructed the foreman who took the place of her deceased husband to get up the raffles as a mere assistant to her—I took no part, except instructing him to exercise all the influence he could amongst the men (about 100) to get up money for a brother foreman's widow—I never threw at these raffles—I heard her husband say that he belonged to a benefit society—I do not know that his widow received 10l.—she might or might not—she did not receive it to my knowledge—I am aware that there was some money due from the employer of her late husband that she was entitled to receive—I believe Mr. Jones, the engineer, said 8l. was all she was entitled to, but on my representation, she received a greater amount—about 12l. it might be: and out of that she bought a mangle—I have got the receipt of it—I did not say at the Westminster County Court that I bought the mangle—I said I held the receipt for the mangle—I went about it—a certain portion of it was paid for with her money—I paid the rest out of my own benevolence—I paid 10s. or 1l., I forget which—it cost 6l. altogether—it broke down, and they had to have it repaired, and there was a board to notify that mangling was done, and altogether amounted to 6l.—I
believe her husband died 19th June, 1855—I do not know on what date she received the 12l., but the application for the money was made to the directors of the London Gas Works, on 25th July, 1855—while her husband was ill, I did not borrow or receive any money from her—I did not in June while her husband was ill, receive some money from her—I do not remember her getting 5l. from the Gas Works on the morning of her husband's death—I do not know whether she received 5l. or any at all—I do pledge myself that during her husband's illness I never had any money from her—her husband had good wages; 35s. a week; or 30s., more or less—he was a very good workman—I never was engaged in any other loan proposal beside that on the Brunswick Branch—there was another proposal, and that was refused—both the forms that were sent in were written by me, because she cannot write herself, and she brought the forms, and asked my wife to endeavour to get me to be security—there was a formal proposal filled up by myself and sent in to some loan society—it was not sent in by me—it was returned to the poor woman, and that was refused—it was not carried out—the date of this loan by the Brunswick Branch is 21st July—I am not aware that any money was advanced.
Q. Do you know that when the note was first signed, there was only your name and the name of Mrs. Simpson to it? A. The three names were signed one after another on the same afternoon—some agent called on me, and told me that they had refused to lend the money without another security, and I myself went to Mr. Tomsett, and asked him to become security, and Mary Simpson went afterwards—I did not see the money paid, I had it from hear say—the loan man made application to me for the money she had received—I do not know that the money she received was 2l., except what I have been told—I do not know what money she received except from what I have heard—I do not know that Tomsett had 5s.—I do not know that my wife received 1l. of that money—I know nothing about it—I might have heard it in the County Court—I candidly believe my wife never received a farthing—I was not, to my knowledge, asked in the County Court whether my wife received 1l.—I do not know whether or not I was asked whether my wife received 1l. of that money received from the loan office—I do not know whether the question was put to me—I know not whether my wife did receive 1l. of that money—my wife is not here—I did not hear Mr. Austin ask Mr. Simpson whether anybody was present when she lent me money—I was out of the Court—I believe I was asked the question whether my wife was present when I received any of these loans—I did not take my wife to the County Court—I do not know whether I have the same servant still in my employ as I had when Mrs. Simpson says she lent me these sums—I never had a person named Caroline in my service—the 2l. I claimed as advanced by me on the 13th was not got from the society—I believe I did not say at the County Court that I never had been sued—I could not swear that I have not been sued, because I know I have—I believe I can swear that the question was never asked me—I should not like to swear that I did not swear I had never been sued—if you wish to know, I have been sued—I believe I did not swear I had not—I could not swear I had not.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was the question asked you at the County Court? A. It was not, as far as I recollect—there was a Counsel at the County Court, and a great many questions were asked me—the 2l. spoken of on 13th Aug. was in 1855, and the loan was in 1856—I advanced a small sum of money to assist her in buying the mangle, and got up raffles and
subscriptions, and got the workmen to join in subscribing—I did that because she was the widow of a fellow workman—it was to assist her—her husband was ill for a considerable period of time, and during that period he was out of work—I believe 35s. a week was about the amount of wages that Mr. Jones paid him—when the branch bank declined to advance the loan on one security, I, in consequence, obtained the signature of Tomsett—that was to the knowledge of Simpson—she called on Tomsett.
WILLIAM TOMSETT . I know the prisoner and the last witness—this is my signature to this note—I was asked to sign it by the last witness—I saw Simpson before I signed it—she went with me to the office—I saw her sign it—she received a cheque for the money—it was put into her hand—she came to me before I went to the office—she did not ask me to sign it.
Cross-examined. Q. What was this cheque, was it on a banker? A. It was partly printed and partly written, but what it contained I do not know—I did not get anything—I did not get 5s. nor five farthings, nor one farthing—I did not get for my trouble and loss, of time 5s. from the prisoner on the Sunday morning; not one farthing, that I swear—I had a notice from the society that the note was not paid.
FRANCIS THOMPSON . I am clerk of the Brunswick-street Branch Loan Office. I remember this note being signed at the office—I paid 2l. to Mary Simpson; she was alone when she brought the cheque, and I gave her this money.
Cross-examined. Q. Was it you who called on Mr. Cregreen about this loan? A. No—this note is for 3l.; there has only been 6s. paid on it—at the time persons receive the loan they have a look—I gave 2l., and they will have to pay 2l. 10s. back, at 2s. 2d. a week—there is 10s. interest.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE CUFF . I live in Agar Town, and am a labourer. I knew the deceased Richard Cotterell well. On the morning of 31st Jan. I was with him—we had been in the City, and were returning from it in a direction to King's Cross—we were at the railway station, King's Cross, about a quarter past 1 o'clock—there was a pie shop open; I went into that shop, and left Cotterell outside, and he walked on—I went into the shop, and called for two pies—when I found that Cotterell had walked on, I returned to the door, and called "Dick" two or three times—I then saw three men on the opposite side of the way—they were the prisoner, and Hughes, and Moore—the prisoner made use of foul language, and said, "Who the b—hell are you calling to?"—I said I was not talking to them, or calling them, but I was calling a friend of mine—the prisoner said he would learn me how to call Dick—he did not appear to be sober—he struck me in the chest, and I very nearly went backwards, but I kept on my legs—I asked him what he was doing it for—the other two came up, and surrounded me; I pushed the prisoner aside, and rap away towards King's Cross, and the three followed after me—I overtook Cotterell at the corner of King's Cross, close to the railway station—when I was with him, those persons overtook me, and Hughes struck me twice with a stick—I saw the prisoner at that time standing close by Cotterell, and Moore close by him—I saw the prisoner strike Cotterell on the breast, and I saw him fall backwards against the kerb stone; Cotterell had not done or said anything to the prisoner before he struck him on the breast—when I saw Cotterell fall, I ran towards the Great Northern
hotel, and they all ran after me—I saw the Great Northern policeman take the prisoner into custody, and I went back to where Cotterell was—another policeman was fetched, and I gave all, the three into custody—when I came back, Cotterell was lying as if he was dead; there was no sense in him—he bled very much—the three men were taken to the station, and the Great Northern policeman raised Cotterell up, and led him to the station—after the charge was booked, I and the constable conveyed Cotterell to University Hospital—his head was dressed and bandaged up and I led him back home to his mother, in York-place, Agar Town—we got to his mother's between 3 and 4 o'clock—he was sober.
Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. What kind of night was it? A. Very slippery—there was a good deal of snow—it was not foggy—the prisoner and the others were strangers to me—previous to coming to the pie shop, Cotterell and I had been in the City to see some friends—we were there about half past 5 o'clock in the afternoon—I had seen Cotterell in the morning, before 12 o'clock; I then left him, and went home—when I saw him at half past 5 o'clock, we had two or three pots of porter, and staid two or three hours—after that we walked round about—we went round Old-street, and as far as Pentonville; we did not call anywhere, we only went on walking round—we left the public house two or three hours after half past 5 o'clock—it was the Nottingham Castle, in Angel-street—it was there we had two or three pots of porter—we then went up Aldersgate-street, and went to Old-street—we did not call at any other public house—we went for a walk—we did not call any where till we got to the pie shop at Battle Bridge—I mean to swear that, with the exception of the two or three pots of beer, we had nothing from half past 5 o'clock till the morning, and had been walking about—I do not know whether Cotterell had had anything to drink before I saw him—when we got to King's Cross, these men spoke to us, and I pushed the prisoner aside—I mean to swear that was all I did—I did not tell Mrs. Cotterell, the widow of the deceased, that I kicked one man in the mouth, and his head was so big I could not miss it—I know Elizabeth Lake; I cannot say whether I saw her on 3rd Feb., but it was before the man died—I did not say to her that I had given one man two black eyes, and hit another in the mouth—I did not tell her that one man's head was so big I could not miss it—there was some scuffling when Hughes struck me with the stick, but not much when we were all together in the street—I do not recollect the Coroner telling me he would commit me for prevaricating—I recollect his cautioning me, but I do not recollect what he said—I will not undertake to say that he did not say that he would commit me—when the deceased went towards the railway station, and the party came to him, he was standing still—I was four or five yards from him when he was struck—Hughes was then striking me on the back—I was struck in the chest—one man was striking me; the others were there—I was walking towards the Great Northern police constable—the man struck me hard—I saw the constable at that time—I did not call to him—one of those men was dressed in a buttoned up coat, a kind of black—Hughes had got a cap on with a gold band round it—I believe Moore had got a hat on—when the men were given into custody, I made a charge against one particularly—it was a very slippery night—that was not the reason why we were walking slowly—I did not observe any scuffling between Cotterell and the two men who were near him—I saw the prisoner strike Cotterell, nothing more—I did not see the other man do anything—I was four or five yards off.
four pots of beer were drinking? A. Three or four of us—Cotterell had no stick with him—he did not say or do anything to the prisoner before he struck him—Cotterell lived with his wife, but I took him to his mother's, because he preferred going there.
HENRY TOBSILL . (Great Northern Railway policeman, No. 12). On the Saturday morning on which this matter happened I was on duty at King's-cross—I saw the deceased standing in the middle of the road—I saw the last witness run up to him, and heard him say, "They are coming"—I stood in a gateway, and the last witness and Cotterell ran towards me, and the prisoner, and Moore, and Hughes followed them—when Cotterell was coming towards me I could see him plainly—the three men followed; they got within ten yards of me, and struck at him—Cotterell turned round to face them, and he said, "Save me!" or words to that effect—there was a blow struck by each of them—the prisoner was on the left side—he struck the last blow, and Cotterell fell, and his head came in contact with the kerb stone—he fell just as a dead man would fall backwards—Hughes and the last witness were engaged on the left of me—they had a bit of a scuffle, and the other two ran off, and turned up Western-street—I followed them, and called one of our men—we went, and overtook the prisoner—I told him I wished him to go back with me—he said, "I suppose you intend to take me into custody?"—I said, "I will tell you what my intentions are when I see what injury the man has received who was knocked down"—I went back, and saw the deceased in the same position as before, and the blood was running—I asked some stranger to fetch a metropolitan constable—one came belonging to the E division—he said he did not like to have anything to do with it—after that another came, and he took the prisoner into custody—when Cotterell was insensible, the last witness and I took him to the station—Cotterell did not do anything before he was struck—he and the last witness were running towards me—I do not think Cotterell uttered a word except "Save me," or something of that kind—the prisoner was drunk; he could not walk steady, and Hughes was drunk.
Cross-examined. Q. How was Cuff? A. He had been drinking—when I first saw these men they came round the corner—there were five men coming towards the station, running towards me, and then I saw what was going on—when these men went away they were walking in a line—I addressed the prisoner first—the deceased did not cry out loudly—he put his hands up, and said, "Save me!" or something of that sort, and as soon as he said that he fell—previous to that his face was towards me—both the men were striking—Mocre struck at him; I cannot say whether he struck him—they were running after him—there were only one or two blows made at him—he did not fall till after the second blow.
SUSAN BLACKWELL . I am a needlewoman. About 1 o'clock, on Saturday morning, 31st Jan., I was going home—I had been to Sadler's Wells Theatre—I was bidding some friends good night—I saw Hughes and Moore coming down the road from Battle-bridge, following the deceased Cotterell and Cuff—I saw Cotterell run from the three men towards the grand entrance of the Great Northern Railway—I saw the constable there—Cotterell went in a direction towards him—I saw Hughes run after Cuff, and strike him twice on the back with a stick—when Cotterell was going towards the railway entrance, I saw the prisoner strike him, and with the strike he fell—his head struck on the kerb, and I saw the blood the next
morning—I went after the man to see whether he was hurt—before the prisoner struck Cotterell, I did not hear Cotterell say anything, or see him strike him, or do anything.
Cross-examined. Q. How was the man dressed that struck him? A. I did not notice—Hughes had a hat on, and a great coat—I did not hear any crying out, only by Cotterell—I am sure he was running towards the entrance of the Great Northern Railway—I was about ten yards off, between the grand entrance and the Maidenhead public house—I was standing in the middle of the road—at the time Cotterell fell I was about ten yards from him—I never saw any of them before that evening—Cuff and Cotterell ran by me very quickly—Hughes followed, but he made a full stop—the other two ran towards the Great Northern Railway.
WILLIAM JONES . I am the resident medical officer of University College Hospital. I saw the deceased on 31st Jan.—he was in a semi-conscious state, suffering from concussion of the brain—I was told it arose from a blow in a drunken brawl, and I considered he might be suffering from drink—I admitted him into the hospital, but he went away in an hour or two—he came again in the evening of the same day—I saw him on the Sunday morning—he had recovered his consciousness; he was perfectly conscious—he remained in the hospital till the following Tuesday—I assisted in making a post mortem examination after his death—I discovered a bruise on the back of the head, and blood on the surface of the brain—the membrane was inflamed, and the substance of the brain, and the front of the brain, exactly, opposite to the blow—there was a wound on the scalp, rather, more than one inch long, extending upwards three-fourths of an inch—the appearances were exactly what I should have expected from a fall backwards against any hard substance—I attribute his death to depression of the brain from the blood—it was such an injury as might be occasioned by the blow—the internal injury would result from the external injury.
Cross-examined. Q. Do not you think if he had remained in the hospital under your care he might have survived the accident? A. I am confident he could not have lived after the injury—there was an abrasion on him which I was told arose from a fall that he had two days before.
COURT. to HENRY FOSSILL. Q. Did you see whether the blow struck by the prisoner struck the deceased? A. Yes, it certainly did strike him, but it was not hard, and on that he fell.
Witnesses for the Defence.
AARON HUGHES . I was with Moore and the prisoner that night—I was coming down a street which is the first turning on the left from the Great Northern Railway—I and Moore were walking eight or ten yards behind Hammond—I heard a man calling "Dick;" I took no notice of him at that time—I looked again, and Cuff had knocked Hammond down in the middle of the street; I stepped forward to pick Hammond up, and a man struck me a violent blow on the lip, and ran away—I ran after him with Hammond, but Hammond out-ran me, and ran the man close to the gates of the Great Northern Railway—that man was Cuff; I do not know whether there was any blow struck, but they were there in a fighting attitude—I saw the deceased coming across; Hammond was ten yards from him—Moore was the nearest to him; whether he struck him or not I do not know; Moore says he did—that was all that I saw.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. When Cuff called "Dick" did Hammond say anything? A. There was something said, but I do not know
what was said—Hammond did not say, in my hearing, that he could call "Dick" as well—there were words passed, but I was not near enough to hear—I did not swear before that Hammond said that—I did not sign my statement before the Coroner—I was sworn, but I was not asked to sign—I did not see Cuff by the window of the pie shop—I heard "Dick" called—I did not hear Hammond say that he could call "Dick" also—I did not see Hammond knocked down, but he must have been struck—Hammond was ten yards from the deceased at the time he fell, as near as I can guess; and Moore was about five yards—Hammond was near enough to knock the deceased down—I saw the railway policeman afterwards—he was not there looking on—he came out of the gate of the terminus—I did not see the young woman Blackwall there—it was said that I struck Cuff on the back twice with a stick, but I did not—I do not know whether it was possible for the deceased to fall of his own accord—I saw him the moment he fell—I did not see him fall; I was not looking—I was a little agitated from receiving a tremendous blow—I was slightly in liquor, but very slightly; Hammond was drunk—I do not mean to say, that the deceased fell without any one striking him—I heard the fall, and looked—I did not see him fall, only when he was down I saw him—there was not sufficient time for Hammond to strike him and get away—if any one has sworn that Moore and Hammond both struck the deceased, that is not true.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined One Month.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH WOODHOUSE . I am in the employ of Theophilus Bergeron, No. 75, Judd-street. On 24th Feb. I went out from his place, carrying 72 bunches of artificial flowers, in 4 boxes—they were left under Mr. Scholes's gateway, in Cripplegate Buildings, while I went into Mr. Andrews's—I came out and missed all my boxes.
CHARLES PORTER . I live at No. 32, North-street, Mile End road. I am a job buyer of artificial flowers. On the morning of Tuesday, 24th Feb., the prisoner, William Henry, came to me; he brought me a bunch of flowers—he asked me 1s. for it—I bought it; he said he had got some more, if I would buy them—I said I was a buyer, if they suited me—both the prisoners returned to me again about half past 12 o'clock the same day, and brought one box of flowers, Thomas Henry carried them—these are the flowers—I bought them; there were three dozen and one bunches—I paid 1s. a bunch for them, 37s.; I paid it to William Henry—Thomas Henry was present, and took the empty box away—I saw William Henry again the same evening; he came to my stall for the remainder of the money—I had not paid him all—I had not got the money; he said he wanted some, and I gave him 2s.—the moment I got the flowers I put them out on my stall, and when William Henry came in the evening he said, "I would not put them out for a day or two"—he did not state any reason for that—he went away with the 2s.—I had known the prisoners for four years—I have bought things of them; they are both dealers in this sort of goods.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. Q. You have known them for four years; dealers, like yourself, in job lots? A. Yes—job lots means articles bought below the usual price of goods-neither of the prisoners keep a shop—I
know it was on Tuesday, the 24th, that they came to me—it was last Tuesday week—my attention was drawn to the prisoners the same evening—I am quite sore of that—I did not take notice what weather it was—some of the delicate flowers suffer from exposure to the air; they get soiled and damaged—I have had dealings in business with both the prisoners several times——when he said, "I would not put out the flowers for a day or two," I said, "I want the money," and he went away—when Thomas Henry came he carried the box, but he did not speak or say anything—the money I paid was paid to William Henry.
JOHN GOODWIN . I am in the employ of Mr. Cook, No. 150, Whitechapel-road—I have known the prisoners three or four years as selling artificial flowers. On 24th Feb. William Henry came to our shop with a box similar to this one, and asked me to let him leave it; in a day or two afterwards the same box was taken away by Leonard.
Cross-examined. Q. You had known the prisoners before? A. Yes, by selling flowers opposite our house for three or four year—a box had been left at our shop before on several occasions when they have gone to dinner, or they have come in the evening, or when it has been raining—they have come again the same day or the next morning—I only know the prisoners by standing there; I do not know their character—I did not know their names—the box was put behind the bacon block.
JOHN LEONARD . (City policeman, 119). On 25th Feb. I went with Wood-house to a public house, about 11 o'clock in the morning—I remained there till half past I—while I was there Thomas Henry came in, and I took him into custody—William Henry was afterwards brought in by Porter, and I took him into custody—I told him the charge was for having a box of flowers in his possession, supposed to be stolen—William Henry said he had not stolen them, he had bought them of a man he did not know, nor where he lived—Thomas Henry said nothing—I took William Henry; he first said he lived any where, and then he said he lived at Johnson's lodging house, Spitalfields—I went afterwards to Mr. Cook's, and brought away this box of flowers.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not one of the prisoners tell you there were flowers at the cheesemonger's? A. No, William Henry told Woodhouse so in my presence—he said they would be found at Goodwin's, and I went and found them.
JOSEPH WOODHOUSE . re-examined. I went to Porter's on the evening of 24th Feb.—these are part of the property stolen—the other box was left at Mr. Cook, the cheesemonger's—the boxes are not mine, but the flowers are.
Cross-examined. Q. Are they flowers of your own make? A. No, my employer manufactures them on our premises—they are called French flowers; people think they are French—my master supplies about six houses in the City—we never supply them in a retail way, no further than Mr. Warren, in Long-alley—my master supplies no more than six houses—if they give us notice, we take them down—we do not sell to sixty persons, not in a year—we sell seeds, and silk for flowers—some persons send to us, and we take flowers down—we have not been to more than six customers.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Are these wholesale houses? A. Yes, and they sell to other persons—I am able to speak to these flowers as my master's.
COURT. Q. What time did you leave these? A. About 20 minutes before 11 o'clock—they were worth 5l. 8s.
COURT. to CHARLES PORTER. Q. Do you know the residence of the prisoners? A. No; William Henry first came to me about 12 o'clock.
WILLIAM HENRY— GUILTY. of stealing. Aged 29.
THOMAS HENRY— GUILTY. of receiving. Aged 24.
Confined Two Years.
(MR. DOYLE. stated that there were several other charges against the prisoners.)
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SHARPS. defended the prisoner.
(The prisoner received a good character).
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Nine Months
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, March 5th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; Mr. Ald. HALE.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
(For trials this day, see Kent and Surrey Cases.)
OLD COURT.—Friday, March 6th, 1857.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK.; Mr. Baron BBAMWKLL.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.: and Mr. Ald. HALE.
(For trials this day, see Surrey Cases.)
NEW COURT.—Friday, March 6th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. CHALLIS.; Mr. RECORDER.; and Mr. Ald. HALX.
(For trials this day, see Surrey Cases.)
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM HENRY SADLER . I am a boot and shoe maker of Stratfordgrove, West Ham. I have known the prisoner four or five years, in the employment of Mr. Kayess—he. came to my shop on the evening of 14th Feb., and said, "Mr. Kayess says, if you have any ready made boots and shoes which you think will fit me, you are to let me have some to take for his approval"—I gave him a pair of boots, and on Monday morning, 16th Feb., he came and said that Mr. Kayess had not decided on keeping the boots altogether, but he wished to see a pair of shoes, if I had any that would fit him, Smith; I showed him a pair of shoes, and tie took them away—he came again on Tuesday morning, and said that Mr. Kayess had decided
on keeping the boots and the shoes, and wished to have a bill of them—I afterwards made inquiries which induced me to make this charge—the boots were worth 14s., and the shoes 10s.—I had been in the habit of supplying him on the credit of Mr. Kayess.
JAMES KAYESS . I am a silk printer, of West Ham. The prisoner was formerly in my employment, he left on 24th Dec, he had no authority from me in Feb. to go to Mr. Sadler for boots and shoes—I supplied him with boots and shoes, while he was in my employment.
Prisoner. I came to you on 29th Dec. Witness. You were discharged on 24th Dec.; you came down again after the Christmas holidays, and were told that you were discharged; you came to me asking for assistance, on the very day that you obtained the boots.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here ready as follows: "When I went to Mr. Sadler's on the Saturday night, I asked him to let me have a pair of shoes, he did so; Mr. Kayess's name was not mentioned; he said he had seen the governors house; I went to him on the Monday again, and asked him to let me have another pair, he said he had only got a low pair, but I took them, and he asked me if I would take a bill, and I said yes.")
(The prisoner produced a written defence, stating that about four years ago he hurt his left arm and right side, which disabled him from getting a living, and having no fattier, Mr. Kayess said, at his mother's death, that he should never want for anything; but being young and foolish, did not appreciate his kindness, and was sent away; that Mr. Kayess used to find him in clothes, and when his shoes were worn out, he used to go and get another pair; that when he went to work, the foreman told him he was not wanted, and he did not see Mr. Kayess, the foreman saying that he was out; that he was not told not to get any more boots, on Mr. Kayess's account; nor was the boot maker told not to supply them; that he obtained the boots and shoes, but, being in distress, was obliged to pledge them; that false tales about him had been told to Mr. Kayess, through jealousy of his kindness; and that he did not mention Mr. Kayess name when lie got the boots, though Mr. Sadler did.)
GUILTY. Aged 17. (The prosecutor stated that he was dismissed on account of great irregularities, and had admitted one act of dishonesty, but that he was anxious to save him, and would endeavour to get him into a reformatory.)— Judgment respited.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY. to the 2nd Count. Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.
DACEY PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 15.
EBDEN PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 16.
Four Year's Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY. to stealing the waistcoat.
JOHN WILLIAMS . I am in the service of my father, at Deptford. On Thursday last the prisoner came into the shop, and offered some periodicals for sale—after he was gone, I missed a waistcoat—I pursued him, and found it under his arm—he was searched, and this duplicate found on him—these trousers(produced)are my father's; I had missed them on the Saturday week previous, they being outside.
Prisoner. I bought them. Witness. I am sure we had not sold them.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES GILES . I keep the Dover Castle, Church-street, Greenwich. On 6th Feb., about 11 o'clock, Patrick Donoghue came and called for a pint of beer—I served him—he tendered me a shilling, which I put into the till—there were ten or twelve other shillings there—he drank the beer very quickly, so I looked in the till, and found a bad shilling—I took it out, and put it into my waistcoat pocket—a few minutes afterwards he came in again with the other prisoner, and called for a pint of beer—he laid a sixpence on the counter—I saw that it was bad, but did not tell him so, but gave him the change, and put it in a compartment of the till by itself—the prisoners drank the beer together, and in a minute or two Patrick called for another pint of beer, and laid down a sixpence—I found that it was bad, bit it before them, and put it with the other, but did not say that it was bad—they drank the beer between them—Jeremiah then said, "Master, I do not see that it is any use having a pint, give us a quart," and put down a shilling—I saw immediately that it was bad, and bent it three times one way, and again the contrary way, for the purpose of knowing it—a customer drew my attention off, which made me put it down, and the moment I did so, Jeremiah snatched it up, and said, "You have no business to bend it"—I took it—I watched my opportunity of getting round the counter, and went out to look for a policeman—Jeremiah tried to get away, and fought with me for some considerable time; he pulled the door open, and struck me, and, being stronger than me, he got out of doors, and I having hold of his collar, he dragged me several yards, and got away—I secured him after he had run about 200 yards, and he appeared to chuck something away—I hallooed out, "Police"—we got 300 or 400 yards further, and he struck me again; we struggled, and he got away, and ran up a passage by a Church—I caught him again by the collar, and, about 200 yards down the street, met the other prisoner; I grabbed him with my left hand, and held them both;
a policeman came, and I gave one up to him and kept the other; he attacked me in my throat—another policeman came and got his hand from my neck—I am sure the prisoners are the men; I never lost sight of them.
Prisoner Jeremiah. Q. Did not you put the first shilling into the till and give me the change, and then fetch it and say, "I do not like this shilling? A. No—I did not say at the station, when asked what I had done, with the shilling you snatched off the counter, that I was fool enough to give it to you back.
Prisoner Patrick. Q. Was it your wife or your bar-maid who served me? A. It was me; my wife was in bed, and my servant also.
SAMUEL PIMLETT . (policeman R 197). On Friday, near half past 12 o'clock, I was on duty in Church-street, and saw the prosecutor holding the prisoners—I took Jeremiah—he said that he knew nothing of the bad money—I found a penny on him, and on Patrick a good sixpence and a penny—Mr. Giles gave me these two bad sixpences (produced)—I went to a spot which he described to me, and found this bad shilling (produced)on the footpath; it is bent.
Prisoner Jeremiah. Q. What did Mr. Giles say when you asked him what he had done with the piece I gave him? A. That you snatched it up and ran away with it; he did not say to me, "I was fool enough to give it to him back."
Jeremiah'8 Defence. Is it likely that Mr. Giles could keep us both if we wanted to get away? I never made an attempt to run away.
JEREMIAH DONOGHUE GUILTY .—Aged 24.
PATRICK DONOGHUE GUILTY .—Aged 22.
Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. CLERK. and LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
PETER FIRTH . (policeman, R 280). I produce a certificate of the conviction of David Neville, from Mr. Clark's office—(Read: "Central Criminal Court; Jan. 7, 1855, David Neville, convicted on his own confession, of uttering counterfeit coin; Confined nine months")—the prisoner is the person; I was present, and had him in custody.
ELEANOR KING . My husband keeps a chandler's shop in Woolwich. On Saturday, 24th Jan., the prisoner came for a quarter of a pound of cheese, between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—it came to 2½d., he tendered me in payment, a shilling—I bent it nearly double in a detector, and told the prisoner it was bad—he said that he took it at a beer shop in the market, and he would get it changed—I gave it him back, and he left the cheese and went away—he did not come back.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Had you ever seen him before? A. No—I saw him again at the Greenwich police Court, on the next Saturday, in custody—he was not pointed out to me—he was in the Court, standing in the dock; when I first saw him there I had some doubt about him—it was dark when he came to my shop—I am positive he is the man.
MR. CLERK. Q. What light had you in your shop? A. Two gas burners, one in each window; the prisoner was not many steps from the gas light—he had a dark cap on his head—on the Saturday following, at the police office, he had a dark cap put on—I went by myself to the police Court—the prisoner
was not pointed out to me—a policeman came for me to go to the police court—the prisoner was in the dock, he was there alone; the examination was not going on when I came in—no one said anything to me before I recognised the prisoner; I have no doubt, and am prepared to swear that he is the person—I went in consequence of what the policeman said—he came on Sunday night and said that he was taken, my husband had watched him through the town on the 24th.
COURT. Q. Had you said something to your husband? A. Yes, and he went out and watched for him—he followed him, and put him under two policemen's care.
MR. CLERK. Q. When did the policeman come to your house? A. On the next evening—the Sunday evening, and it was a week after that that I went to the police court—my husband had been to the station in the meantime.
MR. DOYLE. Q. When the man went out your husband went out? A. Yes; I did not follow my husband, nor see anything he did, nor hear anything he said—it was on the Sunday evening I heard the man was in custody—my husband went for the purpose of identifying him, and after he went they sent for me—my husband is not here.
COURT. Q. Was your husband in the shop when this man came in? A. No, he was busy in the back room, there was a glass door between—I gave a description of a person to my husband before he went out to watch—it was after the prisoner's cap was put on in the dock that I recognised him.
WALTER PENN . I am in the service of Mr. Sloman, who keeps the Ship Tavern, in Woolwich; I should think that is a quarter of a mile from Mr. King's shop, in Nelson-street. On that Saturday night the prisoner came between 9 and 10 o'clock, he asked for a small glass of rum, and I gave him 2d. worth; he gave me a shilling, I bent it in the detector, and told him it was bad—he then put down a 4d. piece to pay for the rum—I took it and the shilling to my master—he came to the bar and asked the prisoner how he got the shilling—he told him he got it in change for half a crown for some cheese he had bought—we called a policeman, and the prisoner was taken.
Cross-examined. Q. Where was your master? A. In the coffee room, I was in the bar—the 4d. piece was good—I kept that and gave it to Mr. Sloman.
WILLIAM SLOMAN . I keep the Ship Tavern, at Woolwich; I should think that is a quarter of a mile from Nelson-street. The last witness came to me on the night of 24th Jan., he gave me a shilling and a 4d. piece—I went into the bar and asked the prisoner how he got the money—he made no reply immediately—my anxiety was to get to the other side of the bar—I went round to get towards the prisoner's side; I asked him how he obtained the shilling—he told me he changed half a crown at the end of the town, and bought a quartern of cheese—I asked what he had done with the cheese, he said he had eaten it—I asked if he had got the remaining change of the half crown, he made no answer—I sent for a constable—before the constable came the prisoner told me he was a bookbinder, and came to Woolwich to get work—I gave him in charge, with the shilling—I had laid it on the counter three or four seconds before the constable arrived—the prisoner was at my side, and I saw the motion of his arm—he touched the counter, but my hand was there quicker—he wan not quick enough to touch the shilling.
Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner remain till you came out of the coffee room? A. Yes; I cannot tell you whether he might have escaped.
WINDERTON. (policeman, R 296). I was called to Mr. Sloman on the night of 24th Jan.—I took the prisoner to the station—I found on him four halfpence, and a paper of tobacco—I was at the station when Mr. King came; no other time—that was on Monday, the 26th Jan.—the prisoner was remanded till the Saturday—Mrs. King did not give evidence on the 26th; her husband came on the 26th—Mrs. King came on the Saturday, when the prisoner was at the bar.
GUILTY .* Aged 19.— Confined Two Years.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 44.— Judgment Respited
GUILTY. Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined One Month
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
On Thursday night, 19th Feb., I closed my shop and saw it all safe and secure at 11 o'clock—I went to bed, and was roused some time afterwards; I opened the window, and a man in the road called out, "There are persons robbing you, come down quick"—I came down and found my window all broken—the shutter had been taken down, the glass broken; the things scattered about, and same had been taken—I had previously seen the goods there—I know all the goods that were taken.
GEORGE CREED . I am a labourer, and reside at Woolwich. On the night of 19th Feb. I was watching opposite the prosecutor's shop, between 12 and 1 o'clock I heard a window break—I stepped forward, and saw several marines standing by, and the prisoner taking things out of the window, and carrying them up Black Boy-alley—I went to the corner of the next street, and informed a constable—I was present when the prisoner was taken on the spot—I had not lost sight of him at all—I went to the corner and called the police—I came back and kept my eye on the prisoner—I had not lost sight of him till he was taken.
Prisoner. There was another marine taken before I was. Witness. You were both taken at one time, but the other I could not positively swear to.
COURT. Q. Do you say you saw the prisoner take the things out of the window, and go up Black Boy-alley? A. Yes; he took them up the alley, and threw them down, and came back and fetched more things—he did it three times—that was after I went for the policeman—I did not notice anything till I came back—then I saw distinctly this prisoner taking things out of the window where the glass was broken, and taking them into the alley—I pointed him out.
the prisoner come out of Black Boy-alley towards the shop—the last witness pointed him out as one of the men engaged in taking things from the window—another marine was close to the window, whom I took as well as the prisoner—the prisoner said he knew nothing about it—I told him I should take him into custody on the evidence of the man for breaking the window; he said if he had his belt he would break my b—head, I should not take him—he was sober.
RICHARD AUSTIN . (policeman, R 439). I was on duty that night, and was called by Wilkinson, I went into Black Boy-alley, and found a pair of skates—half a dozen chest handles, a marlin spike, two candlesticks, a tin can and some other things—they were on the ground scattered about.
Prisoner's Defence. I was coming past, and was the worse for liquor—I saw the shutter down, and the window open—I stood there, and this witness could see me—there was only one other marine left, and I was taken into custody.
GUILTY. of stealing only. Aged 20.— Confined Three Months
Before Mr. Common Serjeant
MESSRS. CLARKE. and POLAND. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES DUNMELL . I live at Tanner's-hill, Deptford. On 18th Feb., from half past 2 to 3 o'clock in the afternoon, I was near the Naval School, Deptford, hawking water cresses, and saw Mears, who I had seen twice before, sitting by the road side, and Clayton was about 100 yards off, hawking apples, Mears had a barrow with rabbits, he asked me how I was getting on in trade, I told him very bad; he asked where my brother was, I him he was in Southwark house of correction, for passing bad money—Clayton came up and spoke to Mears, I had never seen him before; Clayton said to me, "Will you buy any bad money?"—I said "Yes," and be produced out of his pocket two florins and a half crown, and told me I might have them—I declined buying it, and told him I had not sufficient money in my pocket, I did not ask the price—Clayton put them into his pocket again, and Mears took the basket of apples, and went towards the Marquis of Granby, Clayton had had it before; he then went to get his barrow, and I went off with my cresses—I went right facing the Marquis of Granby, saw a constable named Farrar, in plain clothes, and told him.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. I suppose you know the constables pretty well, and they know you? A. Yes—I do not know whether they know my brother—I am not a stranger in Deptford—I know a man named Moore, who picked the money up, I have known him since last Thursday week, I had not seen him before that, to my knowledge, he is a boiler maker—I have never been in trouble about uttering bad money—my brother is two years older than me—after I told Mears that my brother was in the Southwark house of correction for passing bad money, he asked me whether I did anything in that trade myself, and I told him I did; if anybody says that I told him no, it is wrong—Clayton was not there when Mears asked where my brother was, if anybody says he was, he is wrong—Clayton was some distance off when I first saw Mears; lie came up in a
minute or two after Mears asked me where my brother was; he was by my side when Mears asked if I did anything in that trade now, he came up between the two answers—I did not tell him that I did anything in that trade now—they were both together by my side when Mears said, "There is one that is in our game"—I know the price of bad money, florins are 3d. a piece, and half crowns are 4½d—I cannot say how much I had—when he said that I might have them if I liked, I told him I did not care about them just now, and I told him afterwards that I bad not money enough in my pocket to buy them—Clayton was not present when Mears asked me where my brother was, I swear that—I said that I did not do anything in that trade now, because I did not require it, it was no good my passing bad money—they said that I was in their game because Mears had seen me once go up with my brother to buy some for a police constable for evidence—I never had any quarrel or words with Mears—I had not split against him that I had been put to buy them for a police constable—I swear I never had any spite against him—I had seen him two months before, I cannot say to a certainty—I have known the policeman in plain clothes five or six years, he is not the one I bought the money for, that was Chapman—I have only bought money for the police once—I was not with my brother when he was tried, I was in the Court—there were three of them, they were charged with passing a bad two shilling piece—he got three months imprisonment, it was last Dec.—it was some time last summer that he and I bought the money for the police—I did not go into the Marquis of Granby, I went on selling my cresses—I did not go into the Windsor Castle beer shop.
MR. CLARK. Q. With regard to Moore, whom you saw last Thursday week, was that the day after you had seen these two men at Deptford? A. Yes, next morning at the police court—that was the first time I had seen him; he gave evidence before the Magistrate—Clayton was about 100 yards off, when Mears came up and spoke tome; he was stopping at the gate of a house for a servant to come and give an answer—when Mears saw me go with my brother to buy some money, I went to the Tally Ho beer-house in East-lane, Walworth, I do not know who keeps it, I had never been there before—we saw Mears in the tap room, he did not know that I had come to get money with my brother; he thought it was for ourselves, I did not get it myself, my brother got it—I do not know that Mears knew our object—my brother got it of somebody who came into the Tally Ho—I have never had any words with Mears—I had never seen either of them at Deptford before, and I had never seen Clayton before at all.
COURT. Q. Had you seen Mears twice at the Tally Ho? A. Yes, I went there once to get some bad money for a person, and again to get some for the Mint solicitor—I cannot say who sent me, it is my brother who knows about it; I went with him on both occasions—I am not in the service of the Mint—when I bought the money for the police constable, it was to take some of those parties who pass bad money; it was me and my brother who wanted them taken; I informed the policeman of it, my brother gave information to Chapman afterwards—I do not know whether anybody was taken up after that—I do not know whether Chapman is in the police now—I do not know the name of the man who used to sell the money at the Tally Ho, but I have seen him twice—I have heard his name—I do not know a man named Bradbury.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Did not you say that you had been doing the same thing for a living yourself, and had reformed? A. No, nor anything to that effect—I and Mears do not buy against one another at the same market the
things which we sell—they may buy their things at the same market as me, but I do not know that I ever saw them in the market—they had apples and rabbits that day, and I sell water cresses—I did not go to the Marquis of Granby afterwards, I went round the back streets hawking my cresses, Douglas-street and Wilsey-street.
JOSIAH TURNER . I was on duty in Deptford on 18th Feb., near the Marquis of Granby, in plain clothes, and saw Dunmell hawking water cresses; he made a statement to me, in consequence of which I called another constable to go with me to the Windsor Castle beer shop, which is rather better than fifty yards from the Marquis of Granby; when we got there Mears was sitting outside, with a basket of apples in front of him, and there was a barrow on the opposite side, with some baskets in it, and some rabbits—I went into the beer shop, and saw Clayton skinning a rabbit in front of the bar; there was only one other person there, James Moore—but the landlord was behind the bar—I asked Clayton what he had got about him, as I was a police officer, and wanted to know; he said that he would not be searched there, if I wanted to search him I must take him to the station house—I told him that I should not, and took hold of him; we struggled together for one or two minutes, during which time Adams brought in Mears—while we were struggling Moore came behind us and said, "What is this?"—I looked round and said, "That is what I am looking for, that is what I want"—I saw either a florin or a half crown lying on the floor, and beside it a piece of blue paper, which was picked up and laid on the counter, it contained two florins, and a half crown, or two half crowns, and one florin was loose; I put them in my outside coat pocket, where there was no other money—these are the coins and the paper (produced)—Clayton took out what he had in his pockets and laid it on the bar, there was 3l. 6s. 2½d. in good money; two sovereigns, 1s. or. eighteen pence in copper, and about 25s. in silver—he said that he knew nothing at all about the other man or the money, meaning the bad money—I had seen Mears come round the corner of the Marquis of Granby with a basket of apples, and go towards Deptford, a different direction to which I found him; I did not see him come back, but he must have—I had not seen Clayton before.
GEORGE ADAMS . (Policeman R, 162). I went with Turner to the Windsor Castle, and saw Mears sitting outside—when Turner went in I took Mears, and said that it was for having bad money in his possession, with the other man inside—he said that he knew nothing of the man inside—I took him in, and told him I should search him; he said that he would not be searched there, he would go to the station to be searched—I pushed him from the corner of the counter towards the corner of the room, and heard something drop on the floor—Moore, who was there when we went in, picked up a piece of paper; some money fell out of it, which he put on the counter; Turner picked it up, and it contained half a crown, and two florins (produced)—they were in a blue paper, but I lost that—Clayton was five feet from me at the time I heard something fall—it was about two or three feet from me when I looked round; about five feet from Turner—I knew Moore; he sometimes works for Mr. Hughes, of New Cross, the boiler maker; he is out of work sometimes.
Cross-examined. Q. Was the person you saw the money nearest to, Moore? A. Yes; and he kicked against it, and picked it up, saying, "What is this?"—he was out of work at that time, but I do not know how long he had been so—he has never been employed by me, nor has Dunmell—I know Chapman, a policeman of East Greenwich; he is still in the
force—I never sent Dunmell or his brother to buy money—when I saw the money Turner was behind me with Clayton, and I was pushing Mears from me into a corner.
JAMES MOORE . I am a boiler maker—I am not working for anybody at present—the last person I worked for was Mr. Hughes, of New Cross—I worked for him off and on eighteen months—I last worked for him about three months ago; I have hurt my leg, and that is the reason I am not at work—I worked for Mr. Scott, a boiler maker of Deptford, for a fortnight—on the afternoon of 18th Feb., I was at the Windsor Castle; Clayton came in when I had been there nearly three hours smoking my pipe; he was an entire stranger to me—he offered some rabbits to the landlady for sale, and she bought two, which he skinned at the bar—as he stood there Turner came in, and, I think, he accused him of having something improper about his person—Edmonds then came in with Mears, whom I had never seen before; a scuffle took place, and the prisoner and the policeman were hustling one another—I moved from one end of the bar to the other, to get out of the way on account of my leg, and knocked against this money, two florins and a half crown in paper—I said, "What is this?" I looked down, and saw a 2s. piece or half crown fall out of the paper; I picked it up, and put it on the counter—I had never seen either of those coins before I kicked against them; I swear that—that was the money that Turner took up—after that I saw a paper with 2s. in it on the floor, six or eight inches from the other place, and near to a crack in the floor—I picked that up and put it on the counter, too—I had never seen it before; I did not open it—I had never seen either of the prisoners before.
Cross-examined. Q. Who took up the 2s. in the paper? A. I put it on the counter, and a butcher took it and opened it, and a constable took it from him—there were a number of people outside the house during the scuffle; they did not come in at first; the noise did attract some of them afterwards—there is only one door, and the bar is about two feet from it.
MR. CLARK. Q. How many people were in the house at the time you kicked against the piece of paper? A. I cannot say, but there was no one at that end of the bar but the two prisoners, the two policemen and myself; that is the furthest end from the door—the butcher was not in the house before the prisoners came in—I have seen Dunmell but had never spoken to him before.
MR. PAYNE. Q. When did you see him before? A. I had never noticed him; I had heard him singing out "Water cresses"—I have seen him often—I knew the policemen; Evans lives close to the shop.
COURT. Q. Does the bar run parallel to the front of the house? A. No, end ways; it is seven or eight feet long.
COURT. to J. TURNER. Q. How long is the bar? A. Nine or ten feet; it goes round the corner—the space allowed for customers is about four feet; not more—the space of floor on which this took place is about ten feet by four—after seeing Dunmell and calling Edmonds, I went to the Windsor Castle, but I went to other places first—there was nothing in what Dunmell said to me to take me to the Windsor Castle.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. CLARKE. conducted the Prosecution.
28th Dec. a man whom I believe to be the prisoner came about 9 o'clock in the evening—my wife served him; he gave her sixpence, which she handed to me; I tried it, and found it was bad—he said that he got it in change for a shilling at Greenwich—I asked him where he lived; he said, "Cherry Garden-street, Rotherhithe"—I said, "I do not think there is such a place there, but there is at Bermondsey," and sent for a constable, and gave him in charge, with the 6d
JOHN LUKE . (Policeman, R 295). I took the prisoner, and received this sixpence—I took him before a Magistrate on the 29th; he was remanded till 3rd Jan., and discharged, there being no other charge against him.
CHARLOTTE WESTON . I keep the Robin Hood, at Putney-vale. The prisoner came there on 18th Feb., about dusk, for a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco; he put down half a crown; I took it to Mrs. Lucas, who bit it, and said that it was bad—she marked it with her teeth—I gave it back to the prisoner, and told him it was bad; he said, "Is it?"—he had, drunk some of the beer—I said, "Can you pay for it?" he said, "No, but I will use some of the tobacco and some of the beer, and give you 1d.," which he did—my house is half a mile from the Bald Faced Stag.
MATILDA MAGNUS . I am barmaid at the Bald Faced Stag, Putney Vale, kept by Mr. Oxenham. On 18th Feb., about 20 minutes to 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a pint of beer, and gave me a bad half crown, which was afterwards given to the constable by the ostler, in my presence—I am sure it was the same—it was not out of my sight.
Prisoner. Q. What did Mrs. Oxenham do with it? A. She put it into her mouth, and then brought it to you, and insisted on your biting it, and you hit a piece out of it, and gave it to the ostler—you had no opportunity of going away; the ostler stood at the door all the while.
Prisoner's Defence. When the ostler was sent, he asked me for the other piece, and I gave it to him; should I have done so if I had known that it was bad?
GUILTY .** Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRIETTA MARIA SUCH . My father is a tobacconist, of Union-street, St. Saviour's. On 18th Feb., about 3 o'clock, the prisoner came for half an ounce of tobacco, which came to 11d., and gave me a bad shilling—I took it to my mother, in the kitchen, leaving him in the shop; she came back with me, and had some conversation with the prisoner—next day he came again, at 7 o'clock in the evening, for a London Journal, which is a penny paper—I knew him again when he came in—he gave me a bad shilling; I took it to my mother, in the kitchen, and gave it to her; she came into the shop, and sent for a constable.
EMMA SUCH . On Wednesday, 18th Feb., my daughter brought me a shilling into the kitchen; I went into the shop, and found the prisoner there; I asked him if he dealt in bad money; he said that he was not aware that it was bad, he had it given him for carrying a basket—I called in a policeman, but I let him go, because he said that he did not know it was bad—I bent the shilling all round, and put it on the drawers, in a piece of paper—next evening my daughter again called me, and gave me a shilling—I found the prisoner in the shop, sent for the same constable, and my little
girl marked the shillings, and gave them to him—the prisoner said that he had it given to him.
JOSEPH ALLEN . On 11th Feb. I was called, and found the prisoner at Mrs. Such's, but she did not press the charge, as I searched him, and found nothing on him—on the 19th I was called again about 7 o'clock, and received 2s. from Mrs. Such; I searched the prisoner then, and found nothing on him.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN OLIVER . I live at No. 18, Meeting House-lane, Peckham. On a Saturday evening the prisoner spoke to me opposite Mr. Smith's, in High-street, Peckham—he gave me a shilling, and said, "Go, and get me 1d. worth of apples"—I went to Mrs. Smith's, and she said that she did not make pennyworths; I went back, and told him so, and he said, "Go and get two 1d. apples"—I went back, and Mrs. Smith said that the shilling was bad, and gave it to me—I went across the road, and Mr. Waite took it from me.
MARY ANN SMITH . I am the wife of William Smith, of High-street, Peckham, a greengrocer. On 7th Feb. the little boy Oliver came to me for 1d. worth of apples; I said, "We do not make pennyworths of apples," and he went away, and came back for two 1d. apples; he put a shilling down—his brother was with him—I detected that the shilling was bad, and pushed it back—I do not know which of them took it—he told me a man had sent him with it.
RICHARD WAITE . I am a butcher, of High-street, Peckham. On 7th Feb., about 7 o'clock, I saw the two boys Oliver, at Mr. Smith's; I received this shilling from one of them, and went with them from the shop to the corner of Marlborough-street, where they stated that the man was, but found no man—I took the shilling home, put it on the block, chopped it in two, and gave it to a policeman on Sunday morning—I know the boys, they live close by.
JOHN BOND . (Police sergeant, P 2). I produce the shilling; I have had it ever since Mr. Waite gave it to me—I heard that a man had been taken for passing bad money, and took the boys to the station, showed the prisoner to them, and they said, without the least hesitation, that he was the man; he made no reply.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you say to your father that you knew me by the red handkerchief round my neck? A. No—I have seen you about Peckham a good many times.
WILLIAM YOUNG . On 7th Feb., about 7 o'clock, the prisoner crossed the street to me, and gave me a shilling to go over to the doctor's, and get him an ounce of salts; I did so, and the gentleman said that it was cracked, and he would not have it—I gave it to my father, who said that it was bad, and gave it to the policeman in my presence.
shilling from him on 7th Feb., and looked for the man who gave it to him, but could not find him—I gave it to Tabernacle.
Prisoner. Q. Did not you say to your son, "Is this the man?" A. Yes—he did not say that he knew you by your red handkerchief—I also applied to another boy, twelve months older than mine, who said, "I am positive that that is the man."
GEORGE TABERNACLE . I am a livery stable keeper, of Peckham-lane. On 7th Feb. I was passing Mr. Young's, and saw the prisoner in custody—Mr. Young asked me to take a bad shilling to the station, which I did, and gave it to the constable on duty, in the sergeant's presence.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM PANTER . I am a baker, of Bermondsey-street. On 26th Jan, the prisoner came for half a quartern loaf—I knew her before—it came to 33d.—she offered me this bad florin (produced), and I gave her into custody, with the florin.
MARY GILLHAM . I am the wife of William Gillham, of No. 6, Long-lane, Bermondsey. On 7th Feb. the prisoner came for a 1/4 cwt of coals; they came to 3d.—she tendered me a half crown—I gave her 2s. 2d. change—in the evening I found it was bad, and gave it to a policeman—I had kept it in my pocket, where there was no other money at the time, but I took two half crowns afterwards, which I put with it—this (produced) is the one I took of the prisoner—I know it because it is rather brighter than the others—I had not received information when I took them out of my pocket—it was then after midnight—I then looked at them, found that two of them were bad, and gave them to a policeman.
HENRY HURST . (Policeman, M 34). I received two bad half crowns from the last witness on the 18th—this is one of them (produced)—the other is not here, that was broken—they only differ from one another by one being broken—I do not know whether they are from the same mould.
MARY GILLHAM . re-examined. Q. Where was the half crown till you gave it to the policeman? A. On the mantle piece—they were both kept together there—I gave it to the policeman because he came and asked me for it—I am sure of the prisoner; I have seen her backwards and forwards about the door, but she has never been into the shop—I saw her next up at the police court, three or four days after the policeman called, and am quite sure she is the same party—I cannot recollect who passed the other half crown, whether it was a man or a woman; if anybody was put before me I could not tell—that half crown my husband broke with his teeth—only my little boy, who is not here, was in the shop, who took the coals to her house, and lives a few doors from me, just round the corner.
JAMES BRUNNING . I am a green grocer, of Long-lane, Bermondsey. On Saturday, 14th Feb., about half past 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for 1d. worth of apples—I gave them to her, and she then said that she would like 2d. worth more, and tendered me this florin—I saw that it was had, and asked her if she had any more of that kind about her—she said,
"No," and that she got that in change at a coal shed, where she had bought some coals—I called in a constable, and she told him her mistress gave it to her for two days work.
Prisoner. I did not tell him I got it in change at a coal shed. Witness. I am not mistaken.
GUILTY . Aged 19.—(The police stated that she was the dupe of other persons, who were for trial. See page 660).— Confined Three Months.
SMITH PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. ROBINSON. conducted the Prosecution.
AUGUSTA GREEN . I keep the King's Head, High-street, Wandsworth. On 23rd Feb., about 10 minutes to 10 o'clock, Smith came and asked for 1d. worth of gin—she gave me this sixpence—I put it into the till, and made some remark with regard to its appearance—there were two other sixpences there, which were very plainly stamped on both sides—I can swear that this is the one she gave me—shortly after she left, Oatley, a policeman, came in, and I gave it to him.
THOMAS OATLEY . (Policeman, N 190). On Sunday night, 23rd Feb., I received information from Mr. Yates, and saw Smith leave there—she was joined by the other two about 300 or 400 yards from Mr. Green's; they went there together—they appeared to be talking together, and all three stood outside for about a minute or two, and then Smith walked in, and the others walked on—just as Smith was in the act of leaving the bar, I walked in, and received this sixpence from Mrs. Green—I came out, and saw Smith cross over to the right hand side of the street, and pass the others as if she did not know them—I concealed myself, and saw the other two pass together—Smith was then ahead, and they all joined at the foot of West—hill, a little further on—I lost sight of them for a minute or two, and then saw them all together upon the road—I afterwards saw them outside the Napier Arms—Graham went in, and Cole and Smith walked ahead—Graham was coming out when I went up to him—he said, "Oh, policeman, this woman says that I have been trying to pass a bad sixpence here"—I said, "Well, I think it is very likely too"—went in, and Mrs. Serjeant gave me a sixpence.
Graham. I was in the middle of the road, and I said, "Will you come over and see?" Witness. You did say so—you were just coming off the footpath on to the road.
THOMAS BASSETT . (Policeman, V 70). On the evening of 23rd Feb. I saw the three prisoners at the King's Head, just before Smith went in; I saw her come out, and go in the direction of the other prisoners; she passed them, crossed the road, and went on a little; they joined her at the bottom of East—road, and I lost sight of them—I went to the back of the Fishmongers' Arms, stood in the shade of the moon, and they all three passed me together—Smith said to the other two, "You are a b——deal too fast"—I had before seen Smith coming away from the Fishmongers' Arms—I went there, and received a sixpence from the landlady—I then followed them to the Napier Arms, and saw Graham go in, and come out—I ran on to apprehend
Smith, who was talking with Cole—she turned round, saw me coming, and stooped down as if doing something to her boot, and as I took her I heard money rattle—as I took her back to the Napier Arms, I saw two constables, and directed them to go to the spot—going to the station, a constable said, "We will go Putney way; they have come that way;" Graham said, "No, we did not come that road, and we will not give you that trouble"—they were coming in a direction from Putney when first we saw them, about a mile from it.
ALBERT JOHN SEYMOUR . (Policeman, V 135). I saw the prisoners together, Smith was in advance of the others about a yard—they walked up to the hill, to the Fishmongers' Arms—the two last witnesses spoke to me and we went round to the shade, and saw Smith go into the Fishmonger's Arms, the others walked on—I did not see Smith come out—I took Cole, and found on him 9s.; 10d. in coppers, six 4d. pieces, and three 3d. pieces, all good—I told him I was going to search him, he told me what I should find, and that a portion of it belonged to his master.
JOSEPH COLLINS . I keep the Fishmongers' Arms. Smith came there for half a pint of porter, and gave me a sixpence; I put it in the till, and gave her change, there was no other sixpence there—Bassett came in almost immediately, and I marked it and gave it to him; this is it (produced).
SARAH ANN SERJEANT . I keep the Napier Arms. On the night of 23rd Feb., Graham came for a penny worth of peppermint, and put down this sixpence—having received information, I said, "Where have you got this?"—he said, "I got it in change at Hammersmith"—I said, "You know what it is as well as I do, and I shall keep it"—he said, "No, Ma'am, please to give it to me, it is a good one"—I said, "No, if you think it is, fetch a policeman, and if he says it is good you shall have it"—I marked it and gave it to a policeman, it did not go out of my hand.
Graham. Q. Did I go outside? A. Yes, and a policeman brought you in—I do not know whether you fetched him.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These coins are all bad—these nine sixpences are all struck from cast dies, seven from one die, and two from another—there are more made from dies now than there ever were before—these shillings are from the same die—these are medals struck from cast dies, and ground down to make them appear worn on one side; if persons looked at the other side they would see that they are not equally worn.
Cole's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I do not know these other two."
Graham's Defence. I sold some paste jewellery at Hammersmith in the morning for 10s., which I changed at an apple stall; I felt very ill, and went into the Napier Arms for a pennyworth of peppermint, and they said that the sixpence was bad; she said, "Go and fetch a constable;" I went outside, and asked one to come in with me, and she gave me into custody; I never saw either of these prisoners before.
Cole's Defence. I was coming from Kent, and Smith asked me if I would show her the way to Vauxhall-bridge; we walked together, and the other prisoner was twenty or thirty yards behind us; the policeman took me, and
I said that he would find no bad money about me; my master, Mr. Middlebank, was here on Monday, but was tired of waiting.
COURT. to ALBERT JOHN SEYMOUR. Q. Did Cole tell you the sum of money that would be found on him? A. Yes, 12s. 7d.—he said that 6s. 7d. was his, and the rest was his master's.
GRAHAM— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
COLE— NOT GUILTY .
MR. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN . I was an inspector of the G division of police. On 31st Feb., from directions I received from the authorities of the Mint, I went to Castle-buildings, Bermondsey, about 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning, accompanied by inspector Bryant, and other officers; the street door was fastened, I broke it open with a sledge hammer, and on entering saw the male prisoner coming down stairs with the side of a bedstead in his hand—he called out loudly, "Emma!"—I rushed in, and a scuffle ensued at the bottom of the stairs, which, I believe, was intended to prevent our going up—I pushed him into the yard, and he was seized by inspector Bryant, and sergeant Brannan—I left a constable outside in case anything was thrown out of the window, rushed up stairs, and found Evans, a policeman, pulling the female prisoner from the fire, and pushing her on the bed as she was stamping on these pieces of plaster of Paris mould (produced)—there was a clear bright fire, and a number of counterfeit shillings on it, three of which I picked off, two partly burnt, and I saw several melt, which I could not succeed in getting—there was a ladle on the fire containing fused white metal—I also found this counterfeit florin, and this file with white metal in the teeth—in a cupboard in the room I found this galvanic battery in action, and a jar confining solution, a portion of which I preserved; also a number of bottles containing acid, and all the implements for making and coating counterfeit coin—here is a piece of tin with plaster of Paris adhering to it, as if a mould had been made on it; it was more visible then, it has been rubbed—I also found some wet sand, which is used to scour the coin, and some plaster of Paris for making moulds.
Prisoner George. Q. How could you see me come down stairs, nobody can see the stairs till they get to the foot of them? A. I had abundant opportunity of seeing you, you had a piece of a bedstead in your hand in an attitude to strike, and I believe that was your intention—there were some pieces of wood sawn, in the back parlour under the stairs.
Prisoner Emma. Q. What violence did you see me use? A. I saw you struggling with a constable, and he pushed you on the bed.
JAMES BRANNAN . Junior (Policeman, G 21). I accompanied my father, the last witness, and saw the male prisoner struggling with him; he was secured and handcuffed—in his jacket pocket I found a half crown and a shilling, which I believe to be pattern pieces for making moulds, as they are both old coins; they seem as if they had been scoured, and there is plaster of Paris adhering to them.
BENJAMIN BRYANT . (Police inspector, G). I accompanied the Brannans to No. 7, Castle—buildings—on entering the house, I saw the male prisoner coming down stairs with the side of a bedstead on his shoulder; I assisted in securing him, went up stairs, and found three counterfeit florins; and on the table several pieces of tin (produced) which are used for putting in the centre of the coins.
Prisoner George. Q. Where was I? A. I saw you meet him at the foot of the stairs—we were in the back room when you were coming down; there are four rooms, two up and two down.
THOMAS EVANS . (Policeman, G 145). I went with the other policemen, and saw the female prisoner stamping on some plaster of Paris moulds by the fireplace—I laid hold of her—she struggled violently, and I pushed her on the bed—these are her boots (produced)—here is plaster of Paris on them—I found a counterfeit half—crown on the mantlepiece—when I went down, the male prisoner said, "Have you found anything?" I said, "A little"—he said, "You would not have found so much if I had been up there."
Prisoner George. You said that there were two counterfeit half-crowns; they are florins. Witness. I made a mistake.
ARTHUR ELLIOTT . (Policeman, G 104). I accompanied the other policemen—I found two counterfeit florins on the floor, in front of the fireplace, and down stairs, in the front parlour cupboard, I found nearly a dozen pieces of moulds, with the impressions scraped off (produced).
WILLIAM WEBSTER . There is everything here necessary for coining; plaster, sand, acids, and a battery—from these fragments of moulds I have been able to pick out a fragment of one for halfcrowns and one for shillings—this good halfcrown and shilling are like the patterns for these two moulds—these coins are all bad.
George Smith's Defence, I was not coming down stairs; I had not been up stairs at all; I was in the parlour, sawing wood; it is a very strange thing if the man who was behind saw me coming down stairs, and the one in front did not; I was out nearly all day on the Friday; the staircase is not in sight till you get near to the back door; another man swears that he found two halfcrowns; they turn out to be florins; and when he is found out, he says it is a mistake; I wish to call Thomas Kemp.
THOMAS KEMP . examined by the prisoner George. Q. Can you see anybody coming down stairs in that house? A. Yes; as soon as you enter the middle door, you can see some one through the banister rails; there are eight or ten rails—when you get to the doorway, you can see them come in; you must get out of the doorway to get to the front room—you cannot see anybody till you get to the staircase—I saw some wood cut up down stairs on the morning you were taken.
COURT. Q. Are you the agent for collecting the rents at No. 7? A. Yes—the prisoners lived together as man and wife—I have no reason to suppose that they are not—I have only known them there six weeks.
EMMA SMITH— NOT GUILTY .
GEORGE SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 36.
The elder Brannan stated that he had been convicted of uttering at Maid-stone and at Croydon, and that the young woman Johnson (see page 657) was one of his dupes; and that he was also convicted at this Court, in the name of Kent, with a man named Jaggers, who is now undergoing his imprisonment.
Transported for Life.
MR. LOCKE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN JONES . I am usher of the County Court, Southwark, held at Swan-street, in the parish of St. Mary, Newington. It is part of my duty to administer the oath to witnesses who appear to give evidence—I was in Court on 3rd Feb., when a plaint was brought on of Judd v. Green—the defendant Green was there—I administered the usual oath to him—Mr.
Clive was the Judge at that time—I paid no attention to the evidence.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do you ever pay attention to the evidence? A. Not often—I pay attention to the persons I swear—I do not swear 100 persons in a day—I only swear defendants, there is another officer to swear plaintiffs—I recollect the act of swearing this defendant perfectly.
WILLIAM RANSOM . I am managing assistant clerk at the Southwark County Court. I produce two certified copies of entries in the minute book belonging to the Court; they are certificates of the judgment under the seal of the Court; they purport to be signed by the Registrar of the Court—here is likewise the plaint; it represents the entry of the cause of action in Judd v. Green, on 18th Dec, 1856, marked J. 14535—the amount is 18l. 7s. 1d.—here are the particulars which they are bound to deliver.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Is that the original? A. Yes—the defendant is served with a copy of it; there are two copies filed—I can say that that was so in this instance, because we annex them to the summons—I did not serve the summons.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Did Green appear? A. He did—the next document is the judgment—on 16th Jan. it was adjourned to 3rd Feb., for the production of the books, and also of the plaintiffs wife, as there was a dispute about the bread book—on 3rd Feb. Mr. Hughes appeared as counsel for the defendant, and this book was produced; I have it in my possession, the Judge ordered me to impound it, and also the I O U and a copy of the certificate—this is the I O U (produced)—it was produced by Judd, the plaintiff—I affixed the seal of the Court to it, and it has been in my possession ever since—this is the certificate—it was produced by Green, and also this book (produced)—they have not been out of my possession since—the wife was examined—I was present on both occasions—I recollect the circumstances, and the particular caution which Mr. Clive gave the defendant—this (produced) is an extract from the book, made under the 111th section of the Act of Parliament. (MR. ROBINSON. objected to this being admitted, and contended that, even if the book was produced, the entry in it would not be the entry of the cause of action, which could only be proved by the production of the plaint note, and proof of it being served on the defendant, it being necessary that the evidence he gave should be material to the issue, for which purpose it became necessary to prove that he knew what the issue was, which could only be done by proving the plaint.)
MR. LOCKE. Q. Is that the plaint? (produced). A. That is the entry of the plaint, which is the record of the Court—if the defendant had not appeared, the officer would have been called forward, and sworn to the service. (MR. LOCKE. produced the Act of Parliament, which stated: "Such entries, or a copy thereof, bearing the seal of the Court, shall at all times be admitted without further proof" THE COURT. was of opinion that, if the defendant was proved to have sworn falsely, it was not necessary to prove that he was aware of the materiality). On 3rd Feb. Mr. Judd was examined, and afterwards his wife—the claim was likewise for board and for rent—the defendant tendered himself as a witness—he was sworn by the last witness, in the presence of the Judge—he gave evidence, and was cautioned by the Judge over and over again—the Judge told him to be cautious in what he was stating—as near as I can remember, after frequent cautioning on the part of Mr. Clive, he told him that three of the witnesses were in Court, Ford, Cuttress, and Dallor, and that he should
take his answers down—he then asked him if he knew Reynolds, Ford, Cuttress, and Dallor?—he replied that he did—the Judge then asked him whether he had admitted to them owing Judd any money?—he replied that he had never admitted to any of them that he did—as near as I can recollect, he said, "I never said to any of them that I owe Judd money"—he was then asked about an I O U—he was asked whether he had stated to any of the witnesses that he had given Judd an I O U? and he said that he had never seen the I O U till the last Court day, meaning 16th Jan.—he was then asked about board and rent, and said, "I never said anything to anybody about board or rent," or "about money I owe to Judd for board or rent," as near as I can recollect, that was it—three of the four persons mentioned to him were called, that was after he was put into the box—they were Ford, Cuttress, and Dallor—their evidence decidedly contradicted him; judgment was then given for the whole amount—the Judge ordered him into custody, and he found one bail in 40l.—the money was paid, with the costs, ten days from that day—it was what we call a short order—the defendant came to the office, and paid the money himself—this is the certificate of the Judge; it is under the seal of the Court, and is signed by Mr. Clive. (MR. ROBINSON. contended that this was not evidence, and THE COURT., having looked at it, considered that it ought not to be read.)
Cross-examined. Q. How many causes are you in the habit of hearing in a day? A. We enter sometimes 200, sometimes 250 causes in a day—I cannot help listening to them—I endeavour to dismiss them from my mind, but cannot always succeed—the plaintiff having completed his case, the defendant was examined before the other witnesses—the plaintiff being examined, an adjournment was taken, as he repudiated the name S. Judd; he said that it was signed by the wife—he did not say that he saw her sign it, or that the money was paid by a person named Pocock; he said, "My lad paid the money and brought the book"—I do not know whether Pocock was the name, I never beard it till yesterday—Pocock was not examined—I do not know that Pocock was his lad; I only know it now from what I have heard—he did not tell me that that was the way it was usually paid; that the lad took the money and brought the book—the Judge took down what he said, and I have his notes.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Did Green say anything about the name of Pocock before the Judge at the County Court? A. Not a word; he said, "My lad paid the money and brought back the book"—he did not offer to produce any lad as a witness—the defendant said that it was the signature of the wife, and the Judge adjourned the case for the purpose of having Mrs. Judd called to contradict that.
EDWARD JUDD . I am a baker, and live at Broad Green, Croydon. In Dec., 1850, I took a house in Redcross-street, Borough; the defendant was occupying apartments in it when I took it, and continued my tenant—that is how I became acquainted with him—he paid 3s. a week for his apartments—I cannot say how long he paid it; the man who collects my rent, made this bill (produced) out at my direction—he paid the 3s. a week up to 2nd June, 1851, when he told me that he was coming into a great deal of property, and if I would allow the rent to run on, it would be a great benefit, and would enable him to get certificates from the different Courts—I allowed it to run on till Jan., 1853; 103 weeks, which amounted to fifteen guineas—this account is neither in my writing, nor my wife's, not the figures—my wife principally served him with bread, and she kept the books—I sued him for 2l. odd, for bread; my wife will prove that—he had
his bread of us during those months—I said that I could not let the bread and rent go on without money; and he said, "You have behaved very cruel to me, and I will leave"—I said, "If you leave, you must give me an acknowledgment for what you owe me;" and he went up stairs, and sent down this I O U (produced) by his servant—I received it—we then had a fresh arrangement, and he paid me 2s. a week regularly, till I left the house; about the half quarter, 1854—I then went to Croydon—I met him several times at a public house, and he said, "I am ashamed to see you"—I heard that he had received the money—he said, "I cannot pay you, but I will pay you in June"—I went in June, and he said, "I do not know when I shall pay you"—I said, "I shall not come, I shall send somebody else," and employed Dallor to go for the money—I did not make out a bill to him till I was at the County Court; it was given to him; this is a copy of it—the agent made out the bill, and he said to me, "You hold this as a copy"—I will swear the defendant had it because I gave it to him—that was the same day that Pocock brought me the I O U—I afterwards proceeded against him in the County Court, for the amount, 18l. 7s. 1d., and received the money out of Court for it—I never saw his writing.
Cross-examined. Q. Is he a person of rather weak intellect? A. I do not know that he is—there is a suit in Chancery, and he has told the witnesses that he has got the money, or received a portion of it—he was to receive some millions; all Woolwich—I do not know whether there is a Chancery suit at this moment—I know there was one at the time he was allowed to go in my debt: that is the reason I let him go on—he told me that he would give me a house in Woolwich when he recovered the property.
Q. From 1853 to 1856, was not the arrangement between you, that when he got into possession of the property, he was to pay you, otherwise he was not to pay you? A. He cannot produce any writing to prove it—I received this I O U after he went up stairs, from his servant, a boy; I do not know his name, or whether it is Long; I know the person—I never saw any of the defendant's writing—I know that his servant gave me this piece of paper—I do not know that that servant has gone to Australia; he was in Court to day; that is him (Pointing to Peacock)—I made no demand upon him till 1856, when I heard that he had come into some of his property—I never showed him the document at all—he did not say that he had not given it; he never mentioned about it, and I never mentioned it to him that I know of—I asked him for the money he owed me, and he said, "In June I will pay you the whole amount;" that was said in the street—I went home directly, and found that I had this I O U for 15l. 15s. in my cash box, and looked at the amount; I kept it there as money—I do not know the name of Long at all.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Was the occasion of your applying to him, in the street? A. I went to his house, and saw him and his wife last May; he did not want his wife to know that he owed the money, and he came out into the street, and said, "I cannot pay you to day, but at the latter end of June I will pay you;" and when I went again, he hummed and ahed, and said, "I do not know whether I shall pay you at all;" and then I sent Dallor—I went home, looked at my I O U, and found that it was 15l. 15s., and there was the bread besides.
COURT. Q. You say that when he proposed to leave, and said that you had behaved cruelly, you asked him for an acknowledgment? A. Yes; but we came to a fresh arrangement, and he lived there the whole time I
was there—when I asked for the acknowledgment, he said, "I will," and went up stairs, and the I O U was sent down during the same day—the fresh arrangement was made after that—I did not say anything to him next time I saw him about the I O U, and I never asked him for the money till last May—I never showed it to him, or mentioned it to him till I was at the County Court at Southwark, but it was in my cash box all the time—he complained that it was very cruel of me to make him give an acknowledgment; I said, "It is quite right that I should have an acknowledgment after all this money you owe me"—he then went up stairs, and then went into the hospital about his business—I cannot say how long it was before the I O U came down, but it was all in the same day; it might be an hour, or it might be two hours afterwards—I bad other business to attend to—no message was brought with it, only, "Here is the acknowledgment that Mr. Green owes you the money"—(There was no signature to the I O U.)
GEORGE FORD . I am a baker, of No. 23, Redcross—street, Borough. I succeeded Mr. Judd—I have known the defendant five or six years—I knew him before I took the business—he was a lodger of mine—I have known Mr. Judd twenty years, I married his sister—I was subpœnaed by him in Jan. last, to attend as a witness, at Southwark County Court; the cause was adjourned to 3rd Feb., when I attended again—the defendant was examined, and was asked, "Did you ever, directly or indirectly, acknowledge to Cuttress, Ford, or Dallor, that you gave an I O U"?—he said, "No," and that he had never given one—I had had conversations with him several times previous to the action, and had spoken to him about the I O U—he was my lodger, and he said that he did not consider Judd so good a man of business as me, and he thought it very hard on him that he should force him to give an I O U, or an acknowledgment, and I understood him that he had given one to Judd for rent; that Judd had caused him to do it—that conversation has happened many times—he said, on another occasion, after the cholera, that when he had paid Dr. Roberts, he would come to some arrangement to pay Mr. Judd 6d. or 1s. a week, if my wife would receive it for him—I understood from him that he owed Mr. Judd about 20l.—he did not say distinctly what it was for; I understood that it was for rent.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you had any conversation with year brother-in-law about this? A. On several occasions, in the shape of family matters—we may have talked it over for three or four years for aught I know—I cannot say when the I O U was given—Green complained of the cruelty or unfairness of Judd—I do not know a person named Long at all—he has never told me that he has heard from Long that an I O U had been given without his consent.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Was it after he became your lodger that he first made the statement? A. Yes—I took the business of Mr. Judd, two years and a half ago last Aug.—I had another conversation with him on 16th Jan., and he said that Judd had treated him badly, and if it had been me instead of Judd, he would have paid me the best way he could, 6d., or 1s., or 1s. 6d. a week—it was in Swann—street, opposite the County Court, that he said that—he does not owe me anything.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Has he paid you all he owed you? A. Every farthing—he left off dealing with me, because the bread did not suit him; he found fault with the weight—I left him the bread on Monday morning, in the usual way, and said that I would call again—I said, "I have spoken
the matter over with my wife, and I decline to deal with you"—I did not believe it, and I declined his custom—I believe that was the first time he complained, but it is rather hard of you to put these questions.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Did you consider that it was short weight? A. I did not, in the way of business, because there is so much allowed for over weight—sometimes it might weigh an ounce or two short, and sometimes it weighed more—he had the bread like other people, and I was generally insulted there, but not by him.
COURT. Q. Was it through his complaints? A. Through some parties who he employed—I declined to serve him, and he paid me.
GEORGE CUTTRESS . I am a publican, and keep the Old Justice, Little Suffolk-street, Southwark-bridge-road. I know the defendant, he resided at St. Andrew's-road, Newington, I believe, but I have never been to his house—I have known him a couple of years—I have known Mr. Judd four or five years—on 3rd Feb. I was in the County Court, Southwark, at the hearing of Judd v. Green—I had been subpœnaed, or I should not have attended—Mr. Green told me eighteen months ago that he owed Mr. Judd for board and rent between 18l. and 19l.—that was when I first knew him, and when he lived with Judd and with Ford—he has said that half a dozen times—he also said, "Mr. Judd has an I O U from me"—he has talked to me about the I O U several times, when we have been smoking our pipes together in the parlour—he was sober at the time—I do not believe I ever saw him the worse for liquor—I heard him examined at the County Court; the Judge asked him whether the debt was just, and he said, "No;" and whether he gave an I O U to Mr. Judd, and he said, "No;" but it was proved—the Judge or the Counsel asked him whether he had ever said anything about the I O U to me, or told me about it, and he denied it—I was asked by Green to arrange the debt for him, but I cannot tell you when; it was before this action was brought, but after the debt was due—I told him that if he would give me 5l. to pay over to Mr. Judd, I would arrange it with Mr. Judd, and 1l. afterwards in a month, and he promised to bring it to me, but no money came, and it was not done—Mr. Judd would have accepted it then—it was to be altogether liquidated for 6l.—this was twelve months ago, but I cannot say exactly; it was before he went into the shop—Green said that he was going to have some money by some lawsuit—he asked me to make an arrangement, and I said that I could accommodate him—he did not ask me if I thought Judd would press him for the amount.
Cross-examined. Q. You managed to persuade him to promise to give the 5l. and 1l. Yes—I had not received my instructions from Mr. Judd, but I spoke to him afterwards, and he agreed to it—I told the defendant that I thought I could manage to settle the debt of 18l. for 5l., and 1l. at the end of a month—I of course had had a conversation with Judd before that, and arranged it, and if he had brought the money it would have been all right—I have known Judd eighteen months or two years—the defendant was living with him when I first knew him, and he shopped in the house when Ford took it.
Q. You say that he told you he owed Judd a sum of money for board and rent? was not it that Mr. Judd said that he owed him a sum of money for board and rent? A. Yes, he did claim that money of him—I shall not say more than I know—he was put in one box at the County Court at the same time that I was put in the other box—I do not think he is a man of very strong intellect; I think his upper works are a little soft, from his
talking, for some time, and I really do not think he if quite right—he is not very excitable, he is not big enough for that—I mean that I never saw him quarrelsome.
JOHN DALLOR . I am a house agent, of Charlotte-street, Blackfriars-road. I know the prosecutor and defendant—I was subpœnaed by Mr. Judd to the Southwark County Court on 3rd Feb.—I had before that been employed by him to apply to Green for a debt which he owed—I saw Green two or three times, about Aug., 1856, and applied to him for 15l. rent, and something for board, about 18l. together—he stated that he owed. the money, and referred me to his solicitor, stating that some property was coming to him—I went there, but they did not seem to entertain the idea that he had much prospect—I saw Green again several times, and had conversations with him, and suggested to him that he had better pay it; I offered to take it at 5s. a week at one time—I was present on 3rd Feb., when he denied the debt—the Judge told him to be particularly guarded and read over the evidence to him, and said, "I will again read it over to you that you may know what you are stating;" and he asked one of the officers of the Court whether he had been sworn, and was told that he had; he then asked him whether he owed the money or not, and he denied it—the Judge ordered the payment forthwith, and ordered him to be committed—the Judge asked him whether he had signed an I O U, but I do not recollect his answer.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know his writing? A. No, I never saw him write, I had not known him before—his solicitor is at Hibernia Chambers, Gooddy, or some name like that—they did not seem to think he was the party entitled in the Chancery suit; he had broached the matter to the solicitor, but he did not think it sufficiently strong, they said that they had made inquiries, but did not feel disposed to go any further.
COURT. Q. Did you say anything to him about an I O U? A. I do not recollect that I did, I have mentioned it since in casual conversation, I know that it is in existence—I first heard it from Judd, and think that was when I applied for the money—I did not say anything to Green about it, I simply applied for the debt.
JAMES REYNOLDS . I live at No. 10, Horsley-street, Walworth, and know the prosecutor and defendant—I have been at Cuttress's house with Green several times, and recollect Green telling me that Mr. Judd held an I O U for the amount, 12l. or 14l.—I do not know the exact amount—he said that more than once or twice—after he had received the summons from the County Court, I had a conversation with him at my house, he said, "I have got it at last;" I said, "What?" he said, "I have got a summons from Mr. Judd;" I said, "Well, you owe him the money, you know, and how do you think you can pay it?"—he said, "I do not know how I can pay it"—I said, "You had better try and settle it, if you can," he paused a bit and said, "It would be the best way"—I said, "Perhaps I can settle it for you for 6l. "—he said, "If you could, I wish you would," and proposed for me to write to Mr. Judd—I said, "No, perhaps I may see him"—on the next Sunday, Mr. Judd called on me about something else, and had tea with me, and I spoke to him about it—I do not think I saw Green after that, but he has spoken to me about the debt, I dare say as many as ten times.
Cross-examined. Q. How was it you told Green that you could settle it for 5l. or 6l.? A. I thought Mr. Judd might settle it, as there was not much prospect of his getting it—on my oath, I do not think I had had any
conversation with Mr. Judd before I offered to settle it for 5l. or 6l.; it was my own imagination, I thought I might settle it for that—I had never heard a word about it from Judd that I recollect—I had heard Mr. Judd say many times that he owed him money, and if he did not pay him, he would summon him for it, but he said nothing about taking 6l.—I was not at the County Court—it is ten or twelve months ago since the first statement was made to me about Green, or perhaps a little more—Green and I smoke our pipes together—he is not a man of very strong intellect, I think he is very forgetful—I always considered him a very honest man, he frequently talks very strangely, and is very forgetful; he lived with me three or four years, and I have had abundant opportunity of knowing his character, and believe him to be a very honest fellow.
GUILTY.— Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of his good character.—Judgment respited.
Before Mr. Recorder.
SMITH PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.
BREED PLEADED GUILTY .
Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. LOCKE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN HURNE . I was formerly porter in the service of Mr. Galibert, in Union-street, St. Saviour's, Southwark. I went into his employ five years ago—I have known the prisoner Carroll about nine months, and Boulanger about six months, he is a hatter, and lives in Worcester-street, about five minutes' walk from Mr. Galibert's—Mr. Galibert is a manufacturer of silk plush, used for hats—I first became acquainted with Boulanger by taking to him my own hat to have it cleaned and brushed up—he said if I had any pieces of plush about in the warehouse, to bring them in—that was about Oct. last—I took him in some corner pieces and long pieces about that time—they were of this sort (looking at some)—he knew where I lived, and that I was in the prosecutor's service—when I took them, he used to give me sometimes 3d. and a glass of gin—I took things similar to these, about eight or nine times—after that he said these pieces were no use at all, he could not cut anything out of them; he said if I had a piece, I could bring it in—he did not say what sort of a piece—I had taken those pieces out of the drawer; when they were cut off, they were flung in there—after he had spoken to me about a larger piece, I recollect taking a large piece in Dec.—it was a whole piece, about forty yards—I did not take it all at once, I took fifteen or sixteen yards first, and the other afterwards—for that he gave me 5l. altogether, by instalments—I believe that piece was upwards of forty yards—I do not know the value of it—the next I took was in Feb.—I saw Carroll about that time, at his own house—he works at a wharf—I told him I would bring a piece to him, and he said he would get rid of it—I took him a piece of plush, about thirty yards—I took that at once—I took a part of that about six yards, or not quite
six yards, and I went to Boulanger with Carroll, and took the six yards—Boulanger was there, and he paid Carroll for it at the rate of 5s. 6d. a yard—I knew the value of it was about 12s. a yard—I told Carroll the value of it—I received 1l. 2s. of the money that Carroll received, and Carroll kept the remainder—I told Carroll the value of it on the Sunday morning when we were cutting it off—Carroll and I came out together from Boulanger's—there was a remainder of about thirty—three yard—I did not see anything of it afterwards—I saw Carroll afterwards, at his house—I asked him what he had done with the remainder of the plush—he said he had not had the money for it yet—I went round to his place again, and his wife gave me a sovereign—I have also disposed of some far and white wool to Carroll, for which he has paid me—it is used for making hats—I took 2lbs. of white wool—I went with it eighteen or twenty times—I also took some brown satin to Boulanger; that was about Oct—it was about half a yard or three quarters of a yard, which I cut off the piece—I took him that brown satin three or four times; he sometimes gave me 1s., and sometimes less, and a glass of gin sometimes—I do not know what was the value of that satin—I also took some hat leathers to Boulanger; some in Oct, and some in Jan.—he gave me 3d. each for them—I do not know how much they were worth—when I took the piece of plush to Boulanger, he said I had better cut the mark off, and I said I had done so—he said it was no use to bring this common piece, I might as well have brought better—I did not take any better to him, I took it to Carroll—the piece that Carroll and I went with was better; Boulanger said it was better, but he said he could not afford to give more than 5s., 6d. a yard for it—my master spoke to me about this—I at first denied it—I afterwards made a statement to him.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Were you given into custody? A. I was threatened to be given into custody, before I said a word about my own thefts—my master told me if I made a statement, he would not give me into custody, and then it was I told him—I was a porter, and had access to the goods, not whenever I liked, but I took these away—I began taking in Oct., never before that—I was examined in Feb.—I did not begin to take things six months before that—I did not take some silk about six months before I was examined—it was in Oct. I took some—my master has two clerks in his employ—I took a whole piece to Carroll's, which I took from the warehouse—I took it one Saturday evening, under my arm, with my great coat—it was about twenty-seven inches long, and two inches thick.
ESPRIT GALIBERT . I live at No. 30, Union-street. I have been a silk plush importer for these twenty years—we take stock every month, and on 30th Dec. we found there was a piece of plush missing, a piece which cost me 4s. 11d. a yard—we sell it about 5s. 6d. a yard—it contained about forty-three or forty-five yards—after that I found that ay porter had charged me 6d. extra in some charges—I gave him notice to leave at the end of Jan.—on 15th Feb. we took stock, and missed a piece of the best goods, which had only come into the house a few days back—I called Hurne, and said, "There is another piece missed, I am afraid you are the thief"—he said, "No, I am not," but afterwards he confessed it—on that I discharged him—I afterwards sent for him again, to know if he would acknowledge it; he acknowledged it, and I sent for the policeman—I went with the policeman to Boulanger—I saw him, and the policeman spoke to him—a small quantity of the first piece of plush was found there,
and some brown satin, which I recognize as my own goods—we found none of the best quality—this we found is worth about 5s. 6d. a yard—this is the brown satin—I am sure about that; it is manufactured for me for a patent—I can swear that Boulanger never bought any of these articles.
JURY. Q. Has he dealt with you? A. Only twice; about six months ago he bought three yards of common plush—I cannot recollect whether that was similar to this, unless I refer to my books.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Did he ever buy any satin of you? A. No; I have seen some of the best plush—it was shown to me—it was brought from Mr. Glaentzer—this is it; it is the very best that is made—it is a similar article to the thirty three yards, the piece missing in Feb.; it is exactly the same quality; it is the very best that is made—we sell it at 12s. 5d. a yard in the piece—we sell hat leathers—the value of them is 1s. 6d. each; they are for the purpose of being used in hats—hatters, who make common quality hats, seldom use this best plush; only hatters who supply the West End.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you a hatter? A. I was a hatter, but am now an importer of plush, and have been these twenty years—I use the best plush—my employers supply the West End—this is manufactured in France—those manufacturers supply me, and I supply all the manufacturers in England and Scotland—this has been manufactured about twelve months—I have had about fifty pieces of it over, and sold them—sometimes one piece; sometimes two or three pieces—hatters do not use this; only those who are manufacturers—this plush is of the very best quality—the manufacturers manufacture it to sell it to the West End houses, and to any other houses that choose to have it—my porter Hurne overcharged me—I sent a parcel over, and instead of charging 6d., which he paid, he charged 1s.—I did not find many of those overcharges; that was the first—I said if he would acknowledge he was the thief of the plush, I would forgive him—I promised him he should go to America, he said he would like to go; I said I would pay his passage; his wife did not wish to go; she was afraid of him—the morning he acknowledged this he acknowledged that he was going to kill two of his children, and to kill himself—he said he would destroy the two youngest children, because he would not have so much burden to his wife; his wife was living in Worcester-street; he went, but she was awake, and saved the children; he threatened to kill her—she is destitute; I support her—she is living as my housekeeper—I am married, and live in Paris—he did not talk of killing his wife because I was living with her—I have not been living with his wife; certainly not—he did not say that I had—she never thought, nor did I, think of it—Hurne did not tell me that that was the reason he wanted to murder his wife—neither the wife, nor himself, nor anybody else.
MR. LOCKE. Q. Is there the slightest pretence for such a thing? A. No, not the slightest—I never expected such a question, if I had, I do not think I should have prosecuted—I am only here about a week at a time—after I have supported the family, and done so much for them, I did not expect this—his wife said, was before he attempted his own life.
GEORGE GLAENTZER . I am a hatter; and live at No. 11, Richmond-street, Soho. I have known Boulanger about ten years—he came to my place on 10th Feb.—he had a parcel with him—he offered the plush for sale—I asked him how much it was, he said twenty-seven yards; I measured it, it was only twenty-six—I gave the remainder of it up to the prosecutor—I asked Boulanger what he would sell it for—he wanted to sell it for 8s. 6d. per yard—he said it was worth about 12s., but he wanted the money
very particularly—I refused to take it, and said I did not want it—afterwards I said I had not money enough to pay for it—he said he must have the money—I told him he had better take it away, I did not want it; and I told him I had not more than 5l.—he at first said he wanted the money that day, but he afterwards said, "Could you give me the balance tomorrow morning, but mind, can I depend on it, because I must have the money?"—I gave him 5l., and he left the plush; I paid him the next morning 6l. 1s.;—he said this was better than some that I had had from a house I dealt with in Charlotte-street, Blackfriars-road—this was the first transaction I had with Boulanger—I cut the plush, and used some of it the very same day—what I gave to the policeman is part of what Boulanger sold me—on Saturday morning, 20th Feb., I received a note from Boulanger—I was so excited that I did not keep it, I tore it up, but I recollect every word of it—it was written by his wife; he cannot write—I had not received letters from him before—he came to me on the Friday evening, and told me the plush he had sold me had been stolen, but he did not know it—he made use of a French word, and said "Mouchez le plush" that means do away with it in any way you can—that was on the Friday evening, about eight o'clock—I received a note the next afternoon; and on Saturday evening a message came from him, but I would not receive it—I sent word I would give him in charge.
Cross-examined. Q. You paid 8s. 6d. a yard for it? A. Yes; I used some, and gave up the remainder to the policeman—I have known Boulanger about ten years—I have not sold him things—some seven years ago he worked for me for some time, and afterwards he worked for himself—he came to me with this about dinner time on 10th Feb.—he always spoke French—I am sufficient French scholar to understand him—there would be no difficulty in getting such plush as this at a great many places—this satin is nothing that I have to do with—never use it.
COURT. to JOHN HURNE. Q. When did you take this piece of plush? A. I took it on the Saturday night to Carroll's—it was taken to Boulanger on the Sunday morning.
LOUISE DALAN . I live at No. 4, Gray's Inn-lane. I know Boulanger; he called on me last Saturday week; he said he wanted to see my husband—my husband came in, and he told him to go to Mr. Glaentzer, and tell him to put the plush somewhere, or burn it, because if he did not put the plush somewhere he should have eighteen months' imprisonment—my husband said he could not go, and I went to Mr. Glaentzer—Boulanger said if he put the plush somewhere till Thursday, after Thursday he could use it—this was on Saturday; I appeared before the Magistrate on the Thursday following.
Cross-examined. Q. You are the wife of Eugene Dalan? A. Yes—my husband is at work—he did not go before the Magistrate—this was told to my husband—I was in my own room—I am a French woman—this was said in French—it was on Saturday week—Boulanger had never come in our house before—I am sure I do not know what we had to do with him—I knew him before—I know he mends some old hats sometimes—I know Glaentzer.
EDWIN WEST . (Policeman, M 136). I went to Carroll's house on 18th Feb., and took him into custody when he came in—I asked him if his name was Carroll—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he knew a man of the name of Hurne, in the employ of Mr. Galibert, No. 30, Union-street, Borough—he said, "No;, I do not"—I asked if he had bought or received any plush
at any time of any one—he said, "No, I have not"—I told him I must take him into custody on suspicion of receiving a quantity of plush of Mr. Galibert, No. 30, Union-street—he said, "Well, I want to say something, but I will not say it now"—I searched his premises, but found nothing—I went to Boulanger with Coleman—Mr. Galibert was with me—I found these pieces of satin, which Mr. Galibert claimed.
EDWIN COLEMAN . (Policeman, M 53). On 18th Feb. I went to Boulanger's shop—I asked him if he had sold any silk plush to any one—he said, "No"—I asked him if he had offered any to pledge anywhere—he said he had not—I asked him if he knew a man of the name of Hurne, a porter to Mr. Galibert—he said, "No, I do not"—I asked him if Mr. Galibert's porter had been to his house—he said, "No, he has not"—I asked him what plush he had in his house—he said, "I have some, I have got a receipt for it; it was damaged silk; I am obliged to dye it again before I can use it"—I searched the place with the prosecutor, and up stairs this plush was found—I got this other plush from Mr. Glaentzer on the 24th.
Cross-examined Q. Did not Boulanger say he had a bill? A. Yes; here is the bill—he showed me this—the silk which he pointed out as being a bad colour was not identified by the prosecutor—this other piece he did claim as part of his plush, but not this large quantity.
CARROLL— NOT GUILTY .
BOULANGER— GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. LILLEY. Conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL WARREN . I am a grocer and cheesemonger; I live at No. 1, Dean-street, in the parish of St. Thomas, Southwark. On 18th Feb. I was called up by the police about half past 4 o'clock in the morning; I found the parlour door forced open, and, on going into the shop it was in confusion, and about 20s. worth of copper money was gone—the parlour door had been forced open by this screwdriver, which I found on my parlour table—it does not belong to me, and it had not been in my house the night before—I have compared the marks on the door with this screwdriver, and they correspond exactly—the kitchen door had been forced likewise by the same instrument—it is a half door—the upper part is glass—the entrance had been made by forcing the door open with the screwdriver—they entered by taking up the bar of the area grating and forcing open the kitchen door, and getting into the kitchen—the grating is over the kitchen window—when I went to bed, the bar was secure; in the morning, the bar was taken up—that was sufficient to allow a person to pass through—it is my dwelling house.
JULIA WARREN . I am the sister of the last witness, and live with him. On the night of 17th Feb. before I went to bed I saw the house was all safe, and properly fastened—the kitchen door was fastened top and bottom—the glass was sound, and the iron bars were all safe—I saw the state it was in on the following morning.
GEORGE ATKINSON . (Policeman, M 95). I was on duty in Dean-street on the morning of 18th Feb.—about half past 4 o'clock, my attention was directed to the prosecutor's house—I heard a cracking noise like wood splitting—I heard a lucifer match strike, and saw a light, and I heard a rattling like copper money—I got assistance, and I saw the prisoner on a wall adjoining the
prosecutor's house—I was then in the Broadway—he had a coat and a cap on—he could not get over the wall, and I saw him rush out of a doorway—his cap fell off his head, and he had then no coat on—the house I saw him come from the back of, was No. 11—I took the cap, and my brother officer pursued and took him into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. How far were you from the prisoner? A. I was close to him—I caught hold of his legs—I saw him jump on the wall—he was trying to get over—he was lying his full length on the wall—he had got one leg over the wall, coming into the Broadway—the wall is about eight feet high—I had a lantern—it was not raining—the prisoner was not on the wall half a minute—he saw me try to get him—he got down—I stood in the Broadway, seeing which door he came out of—I searched him, and found 4s. 6d. in silver and 4d. in copper money in his possession—I saw the cap on his head in the station—it was large enough for him—the coat was a loose coat, such as working men wear—it would not fit me, it was not long enough—when he came out of the doorway I was close to him—I could not take hold of him—I was not aware of his coming out.
MR. LILLEY. Q. How near were you to the door when he came out? A. About four feet—I saw his face when he was on the wall—there was a gas lamp close to us—I saw his cap fall off—I have fitted the coat on him—he is shorter than I am—I think he was searched by another constable.
JOHN BASTON . (policeman, M 74). On the morning of 18th Feb. I was on duty in Thomas-street—I was called by the last witness—I went to the prosecutor's premises—I saw the' prisoner on the top of the wall—he had a coat and a cap on—I afterwards saw the door was open, and the prisoner came from the direction of the door, without a cap or a coat—I ran after him, and, with the assistance of a brother constable, apprehended him in Tooley-Street—I searched him at the station, and found on him 4s. 5d. in silver money—I had only lost sight of him at turning the corner for half a second.
Cross-examined. Q. What was he doing when you first saw him? A. He was on the wall, lying down—I cannot swear whether his leg was over—I was about eight yards from him—the last witness was within three yards of him, he might be nearer—he tiled to reach him, but could not—he reached him with his hands as well as his staff—he struck at him—I ran after the man who escaped—he got out of my sight at the turn of the corner—he was out of my sight half a second, no more than while I turned round the corner, it was not half a minute—I was four yards from him when lie turned—my brother constable apprehended him in my presence—he stopped him when I was running after him.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Were you near enough to hear whether he said anything when he was taken? A. No—I was fourteen or fifteen yards from him when he was taken—the man who was stopped, wan the man whom I had seen on the wall, and who rushed out of the doorway—he had neither coat nor cap on.
THOMAS RICHARDS . I am a police inspector in the London and Brighton Railway Company. Between 4 and 5 o'clock on the morning of 18th Feb. my attention was attracted by a noise which came from the rear of the prosecutor's premises—I got up and looked out, and saw two policemen standing near the prosecutor's house, and one of them sprung his rattle—I saw two men on the walls—one was on the wall of the prosecutor's house, the other on the adjoining wall, and coming from the prosecutor's—I believe
the prisoner was one—I saw him go over tour other walls—there is a gas light there—I called the attention of the police, and directed them in what yard the men were—the men got into the yard nearly opposite to me, and I told them if they got into another yard I would shoot them—they did not go over another; they let themselves out by the doorway in the yard of No. 11—I saw one man take his coat off in the yard, but I cannot tell which man it was—the other man kept his coat on—I saw the cap of one fall off in coming out of the gate—I compared the screwdriver with the marks on the prosecutor's premises, and the impression corresponds exactly.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the prisoner after he was apprehended? A. Yes—he was sober, but I should say he had had a little drink—he was in a very bad state, his face was bleeding—I should think he had a very heavy fall in getting over the wall—I did not see him apprehended; I remained in my bedroom—I saw him cross four walls, but the first was the wall of the prosecutor's I suppose that was fifty yards from me, but he came in a direction towards me—when he was at the nearest point of view, he was a little more than the width of this Court—I am not aware that I have ever made a mistake in the identity of a man—I should be very sorry if I thought I had—I might have gone up to a man in the street, and spoken to him, and found he was not the man I took him for.
COURT. Q. Was the man from whom you saw the cap fall off, one of the men you saw on the walls? A. Yes, he was.
HARRIETT HUTTON . I live at No. 14, St. Thomas-street. The yard of my house joins the prosecutor's—on the morning of 18th Feb. I found two. paper parcels on the wall, between 7 and 8 o'clock—they were two 5s. papers of halfpence—I went and fetched Mr. Warren.
JOHN BASTON . re-examined. The prisoner was fourteen yards from me at the time he was apprehended—he was only four yards from me when he turned the corner, but he ran faster than I could, and gained upon me—there was no person passing at the time I saw him turn the corner—there was one person going the other way—there was no one but the prisoner without a hat and coat.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.
GIFFORD HIGGINS . I am foreman to Mr. Edward Jones, a tallow chandler, at No. 301, Kent-street, in the Borough; it is in the parish of St. Mary, Newington; he resides in that house. On the morning of 24th Feb., I was awoke about 3 o'clock—I went down into the shop, and found two policemen—the shop was in order, but we missed four boxes of candles on examination—a bag of alum had been removed, and two balls of candle cotton—before I went to bed I had gone round the premises at 1 o'clock that morning—at that time the side door leading to the warehouse was shut—I did not try it, but it was apparently fast; it was shut to—when I came down again, it was open, and the lock was broken.
GEORGE BONSER . (policeman, M 121). On the night of 24th Feb., I was on duty in Church-street, at the corner of Kent-street—I saw the two prisoners and another man come from a passage alongside of the coffee shop, next door to Mr. Jones's—Callaghan was carrying a box of candles—I followed the two prisoners and the other man to Fox's-buildings, which is a
sort of court having no outlet—both the prisoners went down there—I gave information to Maxwell, and told him to remain at the top of the buildings—I went down the buildings, and met Clark and the other man coming out—I went down and saw a box of candles lying on the ground I came back and spoke to Maxwell—I then went back and saw Callaghan; I told him I should take him into custody for having had a box of candles in his possession, supposed to be stolen—he said he would see me d—before he would go with me—another constable came and took him—I sent him to the station—I then went to Mr. Jones's premises, and found the door leading to the warehouse open, and the lock half wrenched off—I called another man, and he called up the last witness, and he came down.
Callaghan. Q. When you asked me what I had been doing, what did I say? A. You made no reply—you did not say you were casing up a young man to go to market—I caught you by the neck.
Clark. Q. Did you see me come out of the passage? A. Yes; I can swear it was you.
WILLIAM MAXWELL . (Policeman, M 126). About 3 o'clock in the morning, on 24th Feb., my attention was called by the last witness to the two prisoners and another man—Callaghan was some distance from me, but he appeared to be carrying a box—they went down Fox's-buildings—I watched at the top of the buildings, and the last witness went down—Clark and another man returned while I was at the top of the buildings—I afterwards saw Callaghan down the buildings, ten or twelve yards from the spot where the box was—I saw Callaghan taken into custody—I afterwards went after Clark—I went up Kent—street to a court close by Mr. Jones's, and took Clark, into custody on a charge of being concerned with two others in having a box of candles in their possession, supposed to be stolen.
Clark. There were two girls standing there, and you did not say what I was charged with. Witness. Yes, I told you what you were charged with.
Clark. You asked me whether I was in Fox's-buildings, and I said, "No;" and you asked where I came from, and I told you I came from over the water. Witness. No, I did not—you did not tell me where you came from.
MR. LILLET. Q. You saw him come out of Fox's-buildings? A. Yes; I had an opportunity of seeing his face—I went after him, and brought him out of the court under the lamp to be certain he was the man.
THOMAS ROBERTS . (police sergeant, M 28). About half past 3 o'clock that morning, I went to the prosecutor's premises, and examined them—I found the lock of the door leading to the warehouse broken, as I now produce it—in the yard adjoining the premises I found three boxes of mould candles; I produce some candles taken from each, and also a sample of the candles taken from the box found in Fox's-buildings—I know the prisoners by sight very well; I had seen them in company before that night many times.
Clark. Q. Where had you seen me with this other prisoner? A. In both Kent-street and Mint-street, and also with the other party.
GIFFORD HIGGINS . re-examined. These are the candles found in the boxes in the yard, these were in the box found in Fox's-buildings—they belong to Mr. Edward Jones—his candles are manufactured on his premises—I identify the boxes, and also the candles.
Clark's Defence. I am innocent, I was just come from over the water; I had not seen this man that night, nor been in Fox's-buildings.
†CALLAGHAN— GUILTY . Aged 25.
†CLARK— GUILTY . Aged 25.
Confined Twelve Months.
439. MICHAEL MIGEL , burglary in the dwelling-house of William Hill, and stealing 1 tea pot, 1 candlestick, and other goods, value 2l.; his property. ( The prisoner, being a foreigner, had the evidence explained to him by an interpreter.)
WILLIAM HILL . I live at No. 32, Deverell-street, in the New Kent-road, in the parish of St. Mary, Newington. On Saturday morning, 14th Feb., I got, up at a little after 5 o'clock—I went into the kitchen, and found the things strewed about—I looked at the window, and it was partly open—on the previous night, I had shut down that window—I went to bed at 11 o'clock, it was quite closed then.
Prisoner. I was not in that house.
KETURAH HILL . I am the wife of the last witness. He called me down on Saturday morning, 14th Feb., I examined to see what things were missing—I missed six spoons, five towels, two bedgowns and other things, they had all been safe on the previous evening, and they were kept in the kitchen—I went into the garden, and heard a noise in Mr. Clark's garden, the next garden but one.
Prisoner. I know nothing of all this; I was not there, I was in a different place.
GEORGE CLARK . I live near Mr. Hill's. I was awoke on Saturday morning, 14th Feb., by Mrs. Hill, about half past 5 o'clock—I went into my yard, I did not see any one there the first time—I went back and put on some clothes, and got a light—I went and opened my coal cellar door; I saw the prisoner standing inside my coal shed—I flew at him and caught him by the throat, and pulled him into the yard—I asked him what he did there; he said in broken English, "Don't take me, don't take me," and struck me on the head—he struggled very violently—I held him till the constable came, and took him—I then searched the coal shed, and found these two bundles, which contain the different articles which have been mentioned—my house is the end house, and there is a wall eight or nine feet high round the garden, from the street—my coal shed adjoins the street, and there were marks of my tiles having been disturbed—they got over my garden, and to the other garden, and came back again—there were marks of some one getting over the wall, and over to the next gardens.
Prisoner. There was another man with me, an Englishman; he climbed over the wall, not me.
JOSEPH DELAFORCE . (Policeman, M 224) The prisoner was given into my custody on 14th Feb., about 6 o'clock in the morning—I searched him, and found these half dozen spoons in his left hand coat pocket—these two bundles were lying in the shed.
Prisoner. These spoons were given to me by the other man who was with me.
Prisoners Defence. I did not steal these things; they were given to me by another man, an Englishman; he took me over the wall, and stole them, and gave them to me.
GUILTY . Aged 40.— Confined Nine Months.
Before Mr. Baron Bramwell.
440. EDWIN THOMPSON, JOHN HYDE , and MARY ANN SAGE were indicted, with William Sage, Reuben Watts, and Theodore Johnson , not in custody, for breaking and entering the dwelling house of Edward Harris Rabbits, and stealing therein 470 boots, value 120l.; his goods.
MESSRS. RIBTON. and LILLEY. conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD HARRIS RABBITS . I live at No. 1, Crosby-row, Walworth, and occupy several adjoining houses; I am a boot and shoe manufacturer. On Thursday morning, 11th Dec., a little before 8 o'clock, I went into my warehouse, and discovered a hole in the roof—two or three rails, on which shoes had been suspended just under the hole, were broken—it appears as if the individual who got through the hole had used the rails as a ladder, as there was damp dirt on the broken rails—the warehouse communicates with my private house, by a short lobby, and is in the parish of St. Mary, Newington—I missed about 120l. worth of property; the most popular articles of the season, those which could be soonest converted into money—they were selected from various parts of the warehouse, which abounds with passages, and has such a multitudinous number of rails, that a stranger would have been bewildered there—the iron bar which had fastened the door next to the garden had been taken down, and the door was half open—I went into the garden, and found marks of cart wheels and horse's feet—such a vehicle had never been there before—a cart had been backed into the garden from the passage, which is behind—I had seen the door safe in the afternoon, and it was not opened afterwards—the hole was in a part of the roof, between two stacks of chimneys—one stack prevents, to a great extent, any one in the private house from seeing the hole, and the other partially covered them from any person going down the side street—the prisoner Thompson had been in my employment—he left a few weeks before—he had been in my warehouse many times, and was conversant with the shoe trade—I found in the warehouse a pair of boots covered with wet mud, similar to that which was in the garden—I saw these boots tried on Thompson, and, according to my experience, they were a good fit—the mark of the toes seemed to fit his toes very precisely—I also missed five or six over—shoe boxes—boots transferred from the warehouse to the shop for sale, receive an additional mark; the selling price is attached to each pair in plain figures, and also a figure representing the month of the year; also, a stamped letter R, and various other marks, by which I know them—this (produced) is a correct sketch of my premises, and of the place where the entry was made in the roof—the hole was about eighteen inches square; it would not admit a very large man.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long was Thompson in your employment? A. Three or four months—he gave me the name of the person with whom he previously lived—I did not say that these old boots were mine—I had a reference with him, but unfortunately I did not go for his character.
(The COURT. considered that, upon Mr. Lilley's opening, there was no case against Sage, and that she ought to be acquitted at once.)
SAGE— NOT GUILTY .
THOMAS MOTT . I live in Dean's row, Walworth-road, and keep a coffee stall in the road, nearly opposite the end of York-street On Thursday morning, 11th Dec, Thompson came to my stall, and had a cup of coffee—there was a female and a wooden legged man with him—the wooden legged man was not in his company—he came in first and sat down, and then Thompson and the female came in, and when Thompson bade me good night, he went across the road and down York—street—the wooden legged man got up about five minutes afterwards, and asked me what time the
public house opposite opened—I said, "About a quarter to 6 o'clock"—he said, "Not before?"—I said, "No"—he got tip, and looked up and down the road, and went down York-street—the King's Head is very near my stall—he left about five minutes after Thompson.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. At what hour in the morning do you open your stall? A. About 11 o'clock at night—the wooden legged man came before them, and went after them—it was the wooden legged man who asked me the question about the King's Head—the person who I say was Thompson had his coffee, and went away with the female—I have seen him. at the King's Head several times—he used to work at Mr. Rabbits', and I spoke to him on that morning—he said, "Good morning, Mott," and I said, "Good morning"—that was all the conversation that took place—I did not go to the police office till a week afterwards—sergeant Coppin came to me first—that was on the same morning—he asked me if I had had any strangers about—he did not take me to the station to see this man—I saw him go by with him to the station in custody, and he stopped and spoke to me then, and asked me whether that was the man, and I said, "Yes"—he said, "Do you know anything of him?" and I told him that he was the man who came and had the coffee—I did not at first say, "No, I cannot say that he is"—I said, "That is the man;" but he had a hat on and a different coat—that did not alter his face—I did not doubt him at all, nor did I say that I did—dress does alter a man's appearance very much, but I did not feel any doubt in my mind when he was brought to me, although I mentioned about the different dress.
MR. LILLEY. Q. How many times do you think you had seen Thompson at the King's Head, when he worked for Mr. Rabbits? A. It may be twenty times, and it may not be so many—I had never seen him at my stall before, because I had not had it long opened at that time.
WILLIAM FRANCIS MILLETT . I am the landlord of the King's Head, in the Walworth-road, opposite Mr. Rabbits' door. On Thursday morning, 11th Dec, I saw Thompson at my house, about a quarter or twenty minutes before 6 o'clock; he called for a pint of porter, and went away—there was a wooden legged man there the same morning, and a second party with him—he left about twenty minutes after Thompson—I did not see in which direction he went, as I was behind the bar.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had you known Thompson before? A. Yes, I knew him while he worked for Mr. Rabbits.
SAMUEL COPPIN . (police sergeant, P 15). I received information, and on 12th Dec. went to where Thompson lives, in St. George's-row, Southwark-bridge Road—something passed between us, not material, and I went a second time, and told him that I should take him into custody for being concerned, with others, in committing a robbery at Mr. Rabbits' on the morning before—he said that he knew nothing about it—I told him that I had information that he had been in the Walworth-road that morning—he said that he was not in the Walworth-road, and could prove it, and he had not been there for a fortnight—his wife, who stood there, also made a statement—I tried on him, at the station, some old boots which I obtained from Mr. Rabbits, and they fitted as well as ever I saw a pair of boots fit in my life—when I had them they were wet and dirty.
COURT. to THOMAS MOTT. Q. On what morning was it you saw the police sergeant with Thompson? A. The Saturday after the robbery, which was on Thursday.
the following morning I took him to Mr. Mott's—I afterwards went to a house in York-street, London-road, occupied by Sage and his wife I did not know him before—there were two constables with me, one of whom took these boots from a shelf, and showed them to me—this other pair (produced) was taken from under the bed—they had been on for a few minutes, or an hour or two—Hewlett was one of the constables with me—on the 20th we went to Hyde's house—he keeps a boot shop in Little Chapel-street, Westminster——I told him that Lush had made a statement to me, and asked him whether he knew a man named Lush, who lived in Bell Yard, York-street, Westminster—he said, "No"—I said, "You must know the old man that has the care of the yard there"—he said, "No"—I said, "At all events he has told me that you had, on the evening of the 12th, a quantity of boots brought to the Bell Yard by a cabman named Johnson, and that you and a man named Watts had taken them away"—he said, "If he has said so, he has told a lie"—sergeant Hewlett was with me—I asked him if he had any objection for me to look over his place—he said, "No," and that I might search, which I did, but found nothing relative to the robbery—one of Mr. Rabbits' men was with me—Hyde went with me from there to Watts' in Regent-street, Westminster—I asked him to do so—I made the same statement to Watts that I had to Hyde, and he said that he had not got any of them—I asked him whether he would allow me to search his house, and he did so—I ordered Watts and Hyde to attend at the Police Court—they did so on the 27th, and were taken up—they were afterwards bailed, but did not appear on the remand—they absconded, and Watts has never been seen since.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it on the Friday that you called at Thompson's? A. Yes—I searched his house—I told him that we were searching it in reference to the robbery—I told him of the robbery previous to that—I did not take him into custody then; that was about 12 o'clock in the day—I took him at 6 o'clock that evening—he repudiated all knowledge of the robbery, and said that he was perfectly innocent—I asked him whether he would see or meet me again in the evening—he said, "Certainly, at any time you like," and he met me in the evening, to his appointment, several hours intervening and, and I then, took him into custody, in consequence of further information I had got—it was on the next morning, Saturday, that I took him to the station, past the stall of the coffee house keeper—I asked him whether he had been at the Walworth—road, but not whether he had been at the coffee stall—I think I told him afterwards that I should be able to show that he had been at the Walworth-road, and had some coffee—it was not then that he said that he had not been at it for a fortnight—I think that was after I got him to—the station—I remember making that remark to him—I fitted these boots on him that night at the station, about an hour or an hour and a half afterwards—he denied them being his, and I said, "They fit yon as well as I ever saw a pair in my life;" he said, "No, they are a little too large"—I have never been a boot maker.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was Lush apprehended by you? A. No; by one of the C division, who is here—he was charged with being concerned in the robbery—I went to Marlborough Street Police Court, to hear the statement he had to make, and that was the cause of my going to Hyde—he was remanded the first week, and I went on the remand—I cannot say how many times he was remanded—it was seven or eight weeks—he was then called as a witness, but the Magistrate ordered
him to be kept in custody for safety—he was a prisoner for eight weeks, remanded on the charge, and was brought there each time as a prisoner on that charge—it was only on the last hearing that he was called as a witness—he was let out then—he applied for his discharge, but the Magistrate said it would be better for him, in the long run, to remain in custody, in case he should be tampered with—he was let out this day fortnight or three weeks—I have not been tampering with him—he has not been in my company except here—I have seen him once, when I served his notice papers—I have not been drinking with him—I told Mr. Hyde to come to the Police Court, and he came—he was charged the first time he came—Lush gave the name of Ellis.
MR. LILLEY. Q. What is his name? A. He goes by the name of John Ellis Lush—I did not mention the coffee stall in the Walworth-road before Thompson said that he had not been in the Walworth-road for the last fortnight.
EDWARD HARRIS RABBITS . re-examined. These are the boots I found in my warehouse—the other boots produced are my property; they have not been sold—I have had no other robbery within the last month or two—I had this pair in my hands on the day preceding the robbery—I missed 100 pairs of this kind—these old boots were wet and damp; the drying had not caused any alteration in their original appearance, as far as the marks are concerned, but dry dirt is a different colour to wet dirt—here is a mark where the toe nail comes—it would be possible for a person to put them on, and the toe nail not to come to this mark; I should then conclude that they had not been worn by that person; but if the toe seemed to go into the mark, I should conclude that they fitted—they show the shape of the particular feet that have worn them.
EDWARD HEWLETT . (Police sergeant). I was with Coppin on 12th Dec.—I followed two parties to a beer shop about 11 o'clock in the morning—one was named Sage, a wooden legged man—he has lost his right leg—I saw Thompson sitting in the beer shop, and saw them all three in conversation together—I had seen Thompson and Sage in company before, on the 11th, and two or three times before that—I found a pair of boots in the room occupied by Sage, in York-street—I went with Coppin to Hyde's house, in Little Chapel-street, Westminster, on the night of 20th, and assisted him in searching the house—I remained with Hyde while Coppin searched Watts' house—on one of the remands, on the 27th, Hyde and Watts were ordered into custody—they were admitted to bail, and on 2nd Jan., the day appointed, they did not appear, and I bad orders to apprehend them when I saw them—on 5th Jan. I was in the Kingsland-road, by the canal bridge, and saw Hyde; he crossed the road opposite to me—I said, "Halloo, Mr. Hyde! I want you for absconding from your bail;" he said, "Very well; I saw you coming, I am very glad you have got me"—I said, "Why did you go away from your bail?"—he said, "I should not have gone, but the parties who were bail for me haunted me both night and day; I could have no rest for them"—I asked him where Watts was; he said that he did not know; I have been all over London to look for him, and have not been able to find him.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you say that Thompson was one of the parties who was walking towards the beer shop? A. No; two parties were walking towards the beer shop; I followed them in, and found Thompson sitting there, drinking and conversing with two others.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Were you on the opposite
side of the road when you saw Hyde pass? A. Yes—he crossed the road almost opposite to me—I cannot say whether he saw me—I saw him cross the road towards me, and as he came near me I spoke to him—the words he said were, as near as possible, "I am very glad I have met you; I saw you coming, and I am very glad you have got me, as I meant to have given myself up"—I asked him why he did not attend on the previous Friday; he said, as near as I can say, "I should have done so, but I was worried nearly out of my life, both day and night, by the bail"—he did not say that his bail had worried him to deposit the amount of the bail I asked him whether he knew anything of the robbery; he said that he knew nothing about it, and he did not know where Watts was.
COURT. Q. Were you looking for him in the Kingsland Road? A. Yes; I had been there on the Sunday night from private information—he crossed right opposite to me before I spoke to him—he crossed the road just before I came to him; if he had not crossed the road I should have crossed it, because I saw him—it was about 12 o'clock.
JOHN WARING . (Policeman, C 33). On 13th Dec I was called to a pawnbroker's shop in St. James's, and saw John Ellis Lush—I received at the same time this pair of boots, and took them to the station—I found another pair of boots in his pocket.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did he give you any address? A. Yes; it was false.
WILLIAM CHILDS . I live at No. 2, Banner-street, St. Luke's, and am an inquiry agent. On the evening of 10th Dec. I had occasion to see Thompson—he made a statement to me, he was a little the worse for liquor—I had seen him twice before; he said that there was going to be a shoe shop cracked in the Walworth—road that night, or the night following, he was not sure; it was to have been done before; but they could not get the drag that was to move it—I said, "How are you going to get in?"—he said, "We are going to take the slates off, and drop through the roof;" that there were three men in it besides himself, who wanted him to be an insider, but he said, "I shall not be an insider, I do not see the fun of that, as if I get nailed I shall get copped at once; I have worked there, and then I shall get settled"—I said, "If you get nailed for this it will be a settler for you," and asked him where it was; he said, "In the Walworth—road"—I asked him what the name of the place was, but he did not tell me—the word "crack" means breaking into a house, and "copped" means taken—he meant that, being a workman on the premises, he should get taken at once—I gave information, but I did not know it till the Sunday evening when I went into the Borough and heard of the robbery, and then I gave information—I did not give information as soon as I heard it, because he was to have met me at Clerkenwell-green at 10 o'clock on Thursday morning to show me where some goods were secreted in the very transaction I was seeking after.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Where is your office? A. At Basinghall Chambers—I have only taken it since this robbery, but I have been in contemplation for it for the last twelve months—I was an officer in the City for many years—I have held myself out to the world as what I term an inquiry, agent, between four and five years—the City never had the value of my services—I never was an officer of theirs in the police—I held a warrant as a peace officer, but was not in the police—I was beadle of Trinitysquare for twenty years—I was never deprived of that office—I do not hold it still—I retained it after the case of Parker and Neale was investigated at
Guildhall, before Alderman Wilson—I tell you that on my oath—I held the warrant from the City, not from the Government—I have been a witness in this Court some hundreds of times—I was in the employment of the Trade Protection Society long before Parker and Neale's business—I left when it was broken up, and I have been working for the City since, and am with them now in Messrs. Goddard and Ayres' employment to make inquiries for them, and to serve their writs—I am not a servant of their's—if they employ me to do a certain thing, I go and do it—if a prosecution is instituted on my information I am not paid any more than if there was no prosecution at all—I am not paid a salary—I do not have a commission on the evidence I give—I get so much a day—I have known Stowell, the informer, for many years, but have no connection with him—he is a man I would not touch—I have never been a witness on his behalf, nor have I been a witness in betting house cases, or in reference to brothels—I have not laid informations against persons for keeping brothels—I have never done so at the Lambeth Police Court—the hundreds of times I have been here have been felony prosecutions—I had visited Thompson in reference to some bankrupt affairs in the shoe trade, which I was making inquiries about; his wife was not present, there was no one there but a party who did not hear the conversation—I have never been a witness in a case of perjury—Thompson did not meet me on Friday morning, and therefore I thought the story of the burglary was a fabrication—I did not know the shop where it was to be committed—I, being a person concerned in hundreds of prosecutions, did not think it necessary to give information to the police—it is true that I had seen Thompson twice before—I never said that I had not seen him before in my life; if I did, it was a mistake—I might have said that I had not seen him before this affair—I have never said that I never saw him before the night when he told me of this robbery—I never said such a thing; I corrected Mr. Perry at the police Court, at the time my statement was read over.
COURT. Q. You are not asked what you did at the police Court, but, leaving that out of the question, have you not said that you never saw Thompson before? A. I never did.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. After Thompson was taken into custody, did you then know anything about the matter till you saw it in a newspaper? A. I never saw it in a newspaper; I heard of it on Sunday, and on Monday I went to Horsemonger Lane Gaol to see Thompson, having made a communication to superintendent Lund about the matter, on the Sunday evening—I saw Thompson's wife on the Sunday evening; and on Monday morning, I saw him in the gaol—there was nobody present at our interview—I did not tell him that I could be of great assistance to him, and get him out of it if he would give me a sovereign—I did not tell him that I had seen his poor wife the night before, and that she could find the money if he would authorize it—I said nothing to her about getting him out—I did not talk to her about a sovereign—I did not know that she cannot be examined today—I say on my oath that I do not know that a man's wife cannot be examined in the matter—it was at Thompson's wish that I went to see him.
MR. LILLEY. Q. How many years did you hold the office of beadle of Trinity Square? A. Nineteen years and nine months—I left of my own accord; I have got a testimonial in my pocket of good conduct—I continued in that office about three years after Parker and Neale's matter—I was never on friendly terms with Stowell, he is a man I would not touch on any account whatever—I went to see Thompson in gaol, because his
wife told me on Sunday evening that he wanted to tee me very particularly—at that time I was engaged in making some inquiries respecting Bainbridge and Dell's bankruptcy, in the Southwark Bridge-road—I discharged myself from the Trade Protection Society, because I could better myself.
COURT. Q. I thought you said that they broke up? A. They did break up; but still they are keeping on now; the establishment is very low—I went to Wood Street then, and now I am opening an establishment myself—I never saw Thompson but twice before—I never saw him to my knowledge till I had to make inquiries respecting Bainbridge and Dells matter—I did not make them of Thompson, but they led to my seeing him on the 10th; I having previously seen him twice before, on the same matter; about a fortnight before—I went into the Borough on Sunday night, having the direction of a person named Garner, whom I wanted, and I went to see if it was right—I never heard that there had been a robbery till I called at Thompson's house, and found it shut, when he was locked up—I did not see his wife then—I was with a person named Lloyd, who was assisting me in this matter; we passed Thompson's house, and I said, "He is locked up"—I then went down to the police—I saw the police about 7 o'clock, before I saw his wife, and made the statement which I have made to day—I did not see his wife till between 10 and 11 o'clock that night at her own house—I did not tell her I had been to the police—I went to know what it was—I never made her any offer—her brother was in the house all the time, and heard what was said—I went to make inquiries about what the scrape was that Thompson had got into.
JOHN ELLIS LUSH . I live at No. 1, Bell-yard, York-street, Westminster; there is a public house there which is shut up; I had the key of it, and had charge of it on 12th Dec. On that night a cab came in with luggage, about half past 8 o'clock, driven by a man named Johnson—he took the luggage off the roof of the cab, and put it into an empty room, in an old closet on one side, and nailed the door up—they were nearly all empty rooms—he put hit horse into the stable, and fed it, and was going out again; and about twenty minutes after that, Watts and Hyde came in—I gave Johnson a light—Watts asked me what Johnson had done with the luggage—Hyde was with him—I told him that he had put it into the empty room, in the little closet—Watts asked me if I had not the key of the Bell; I said that I had—he said, "We had better put it in there; it would be better there than in the other place"—I gave him the key of the Bell, and gave him a light, and Watts and Hyde went into the room where the luggage was—I did not see them burst the door open, but I was in the yard and heard them; and after that Hyde came out with a sack on his back, and went into the Bell—there were two sacks—Hyde received the sacks, and Mr. Watts was in with him all the time—Hyde threw the sack down, and I saw the bottom of a new boot or shoe, as there was a hole in it—Watts gave me a bundle to carry, tied up in a shawl, or something of that sort—it contained boots or shoes, by the feel—I took it to Watts's house, in Regent Street, about half a mile from the yard—I did not look into it—after they looked the door they took the key away—I did not keep it after that, and as Watts went out at the gate he asked me to take the bundle up to his house, and said that his wife was to give me a pint of beer—I afterwards found two pairs of hoots in the yard, two or three yards from where Johnson's cab had gone—from the place where they moved the things out across the yard, to the Bell, is about twenty yards—they very nearly passed the spot where I found the boots—I
took the boots and attempted to pawn them on the 13th, in the afternoon, and was given in charge to Warring, the policeman—the boots I attempted to pawn were those I had found in the yard.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What is your name? A. Thomas Ellis Lush—it is not Lush Ellis—T never go by any other name—persons may sometimes call me Ellis, and sometimes Lush—I was taken into custody in the name of Ellis—they did not know my other name for some little time—I had been out of work pretty well eight weeks when I was taken—I am out of work now, and have been ever since—I have had about two days' work since I have been out—my wife does a little needlework, and sometimes I get a little job—I do not know how much a day I shall get here, I have not inquired—I have not had any money given to me—I believe the Magistrate gave my wife a trifle out of the poor box when I was in prison—I got nothing—the Magistrate gave my wife 7s. on the day I was discharged—I was made a witness—two or three friends of mine have also given me 1s. or 6d.—the police have not given me any money—I was taken up with a pair of shoes in my pocket—I was offering one pair in pawn, and had another pair in my pocket—the pawnbroker asked me if they were my own property—I said, "Yes," and told him that I had bought one pair for my wife, and the other pair for my daughter—I did not tell him where; he never asked me—(I have got two daughters)—that was completely false, and I gave the policeman a false direction purposely—I purposely told the pawnbroker a falsehood about the boots, because I thought it would hurt me, but if I had told the truth, and given a proper direction, Mr. Hyde and Mr. Watts would have been here; the policeman would have gone and taken the property then, and Watts, and Hyde, and Johnson would have been taken there and then—if I had known they were stolen, do you suppose I should have gone and offered the boots in pawn, when I could have gone and got 20l. reward?—I heard of a reward of 20l.—I did not give my right name or address to the pawnbroker, but I gave them to the constable when I was taken at the pawnbroker's—I did not give any account of myself at the shop—I gave the name of Ellis—I have been known by that name all my life, for what I know—I have been in difficulties twice—you do not ask Mr. Hyde what he has been in difficulties about, and he has been transported—I have had three months twice for pewter pots—I have never been locked up besides—no other charge has been made against me—I was remanded nine times at the Police Court—my wife was not, to my knowledge, receiving support from the Magistrate during the whole of that time; she had some trifle—nothing was said to me about it being better for me to turn witness—Mrs. Johnson told my wife that if I had gone on as I had gone on at the first, and not told anything; I should have been the better for it—I did not ask to be a witness—Mr. Norton said, when I told him that I was very ill in prison, and wished to be let out on my own recognisance, "Never you mind, it will be better for you in the end," and in the end I became a witness—my wife was a witness before that.
MR. LILLEY. Q. How soon after you were first taken before the Magistrate did you tell all you have told us to—day? A. A week afterwards—the first week I came up I was remanded—the Magistrate turned the case over to Kennington-lane, and the officer said that if I gave a good account of myself, and where I got the boots, I should get off—I made the statement that I have made to-day—a week afterwards I was taken before the Magistrate at Lambeth, it was on the first hearing—I have had charge of
the Bell Yard nearly twelve months—it is twelve or thirteen years ago since I was in difficulties about the pewter pots—I have been getting my living honestly since then.
COURT. Q. Yon say that it was the second time you were before the Magistrate that you told him how you got the boots; why did not you tell him the first time? A. The first time I was remanded for a week, and the Magistrate sent me to the House of Detention—I was put at the bar, and charged with stealing the boots, or having them, and was called upon to say what I had to say for myself—the policeman said that I would not give any satisfactory answers, and the Magistrate said, "Remand him for a week, and see if we can find out the owner of the property"—they did not know where I lived, or my true name; but when I came up to Marlborough-street again I told the officer where I lived, and how I got the boots, before I went before the Magistrate the second time—I knew Hyde and Watts before this—Watts is the master of the yard—he is not the regular master, but he drawed the rents, and let the place—I did not know that it was boots that were stolen till after the things came in the cab, and were locked up in the cupboard—I thought they were the fair property of Watts and Hyde—I picked the boots up in the yard—I do not know how they came there.
EMMA LUSH . I am the wife of the last witness, and live with him at Old Bell Yard, Westminster; we occupy a cottage inside the yard. On Friday night, 12th Dec, about 7 o'clock, or a quarter past, Johnson drove a cab into the yard—I did not see him come in, but I heard him—it was not his cab, it was a man's named Banbury; but Johnson used to drive it of a night, and Banbury in the day—I did not notice what was done, because I was shut in the place—I had seen Hyde and Watts before, and I saw Watts that evening after the cab came in, and saw that there was another Person there; I cannot say who it was—I lent a candle to Mr. Watts—I saw one person carrying a load across the yard, but only one; I could not discern who it was—I had the care of the key, but afterwards we gave it up to Mr. Watts—he took it to the next door, and Miss Watts brought it to me on the Saturday night—I heard my husband ask Mr., Watts on that Friday night if he should carry the bundle which they took away—I could not see what the bundle was, but I saw Mr. Watts take a bundle down the yard with another gentleman—I never saw who the other person was—I saw the man, but could not discern who it was, as the light was twenty yards from me—on Saturday morning I saw Hyde and Watts in the Bell Yard, it was about 10 o'clock when they came—I could not see what they did; I was in my own place, and they were inside this public house, but I saw them go away, and Mr. Watts had something under his arm, in a yellow handkerchief and I saw the impression of a boot in it—Hyde was not carrying anything—in the afternoon they were both there, and they went out of the yard under the gate-way, each with a bag on his back, with a string over the shoulder—our cottage is eighteen or twenty yards from the gateway—it was not dark; it was about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and the days were very short—the key was not returned to me till late, perhaps it might be 10 o'clock at night—I have seen Johnson there since; he was there the whole of the week, up to the Saturday—the police came to me on the next Saturday—I never saw him after that.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did you see Hyde in the yard on the Saturday? A. Yes, twice; I had seen him several times in the yard before that—about three weeks or a month
before, Watts had brought some boxes and packages to the Bell Inn; they were put in his stable by this very cowman, but he drove home in a cart—Banbury, the owner of the cab, stands in the same yard—he did leave, but he has come back again—since my husband has been in prison, I have received money from the police Magistrate; I think it is six or seven weeks, I cannot tell which—I received 5s. one week, and the other weeks 7s.—my husband was in custody on this charge—he did not show me the boots; I never saw them till to-day—when he came out he received 7s. from the Magistrate; he had it in his hand; he has not had anything since, I am quite sure; not a farthing.
MR. LILLEY. Q. You say that your husband had it in his hand; what do you mean? A. It was given to my husband, but he gave it to me when he got out.
(MR. SERJEANT PARRY. contended that there was no corroboration, except by Lush and his wife, which was no corroboration at all. MR. RIBTON. submitted, that Lush was only an accomplice as far as he was dealing with property recently stolen, and that the evidence he gave to exculpate himself would be evidence against the prisoners. THE COURT. considered, that as Lush had not admitted being an accomplice, the question would depend upon whether the Jury considered him so or not.)
NOT GUILTY .
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY., 6TH APRIL., 1857.