CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
FINNIS, MAYOR. THIRD SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, January 5th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. KENNEDY.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
182. HENRY PHILIP ARTHY was indicted for unlawfully obtaining 2 sword belts, 1 sash, and other articles, value 38l.; the goods of James Lewis, by false pretences: also, 1 coat, 1 cape, and other articles, value 7l. 10s.; the goods of Francesco Bernardo Sanguinetti, by false pretences: to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. LOCKE. conducted the Prosecution, and MR. SLEIGH. the Defence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. METCALFE. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH STORY . I am the wife of the defendant, William Story; he is a tailor and outfitter in Fleet-street. I have been for some time living at Notting-hill—I have been living away from my husband for some years—there was a decree in the Ecclesiastical Court, about three years since, at my application, for the restitution of conjugal rights, and after that a mutual separation took place between my husband and myself before Mr. Ald. Moon—there was an agreement to separate, and he agreed to allow me a guinea a week—in consideration of that I agreed not to go to my husband's house during the time he continued to pay me the guinea, and not to contract any debts, and I never contracted any during that period—after
that arrangement was made the guinea a week was paid to me for something like a year and nine months—during that time I did not go to my husband's house at all, nor did I contract any debts during the time the guinea was paid—Mr. Story then reduced it to 15s., and I was then paying just 15s. for my board at a school—that 15s. continued for something like six or seven months, or it might have been rather more—he then reduced it to 12s. 6d., and said he thought of reducing it still further—in consequence of his reducing it, I consulted my attorney, and about eight or nine months after that I went back to my husband's house—I was placed in a destitute situation—I repeatedly wrote sympathizing letters to Mr. Story, but I could not induce him to pay me any more, and on 2nd Dec. I went back to the house in Fleet-street—I went through the shop, and up stairs into a room on the first floor, that formerly used to be my sitting room, and there I saw my daughter, who is now in Court—I advanced towards her to embrace her, she looked frightened at me, and said, "Oh! don't touch me," she saw her father come into the room; he dragged me by the arm, and dragged me towards the door, calling to his shopman, Batchelor, and he said to Batchelor, "That woman is not my wife; knock her down"—the room opens into the hall—he dragged me towards the hall, and his friend Batchelor came and pushed me in the back, and pushed me out into the hall—I went to sit down on a chair, and he said to Batchelor, "Drag the chair from under that woman"—he did so—I then took another, and another, and a third, and they were all dragged from under me by the instruction of my husband—he was standing and looking on, and talking; I cannot tell what he said, he talked so very fast, and was in such a rage—he said to Batchelor, "That woman is not my wife, knock her down stairs"—he did so, but I, to save myself, clung hold of the hand rail, and held it with my left hand while Batchelor was knocking my other hand off, and at last he accomplished his purpose, and knocked me down; but before that a policeman came—I cried "Murder!" to save myself from being knocked down stairs in that way, and Mr. Story sent the shopman out to call a policeman, and he was at the bottom of the stairs, and saw me coming down, but he walked down stairs—I was knocked down stairs by Batchelor, I did not tumble down—I clung to the hand rail to save myself from falling—they got me down in that way, I was very thankful that my back was not broken—my husband was calling to Batchelor all the time to knock me down—they ultimately knocked me down stairs, and I was forced out at the side door by Batchelor—a police sergeant was outside, and he advised me to go to Guildhall.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (for Story). Q. Did the policeman come in and see you clinging to the stairs? A. He did—for many years my husband and I have, most unfortunately, not lived on friendly and affectionate terms—I have not been summoned by him—I reollect when I first went to get out a summons against Mr. Story, there was one there waiting for me, but I was perfectly innocent; that was heard before Mr. Ald. Moon, and you yourself settled it—he never summoned me for assaulting him except that once, and I did not assault him then; I went home as I went home now; I was as innocent as I am at this very moment, and you know it, because you hushed up the case, and settled it by his allowing me a guinea a week—he does not allow me 15s. a week now—there was a proposition between Mr. Lewis, jun., and Mr. Story to pay me a guinea a week during this investigation, instead of which, when I went to Guildhall, only 15s. was left for me, and I would not take it—I cannot live on
15s.—I asked for my home, to live with my family, and that was the decree—on this occasion I did not rush up stairs into the room, and seize hold of my daughter; I went with open arms to embrace her, and happy enough I was to see her—I did not seize her—I never touched her—I swear I did not take hold of her—I did not rush up stairs, fling open the door violently, and rush on my daughter, to seize her—Mr. Story did not take her from me; I swear that—I dare say I have lived away from my husband altogether about eight years—I am prevented from seeing my children—there is another daughter, if she is alive—they have been sent to school, and educated by Mr. Story—I did not hear him say, "Be cautious, and use no more violence than is necessary to put her out"—I think I should have heard it if he had made such a remark; I am sure I should—the policeman told me that Mr. Story fetched him in to give me into custody for coming home—I did not throw my arms violently about, or push and strike Batchelor; I pushed his hand off, to prevent him from pushing me down stairs, to save my own limbs from being broken—I am not aware that my solicitor wrote to Mr. Story before I went home—I made an application to the registrar of the Court, and he said undoubtedly I had a right to go home; that I was only acting up to the decree; that where my husband and my family were, that was my home—it was about 12 or a quarter past 12 o'clock in the day when I went home, my daughter was up stairs—I positively swear that I never seized her—she is nineteen years of age—I had not seen her for some time, and I was very much pleased to see her—I had had the 12s. 6d. a week for something like nine months—Mr. Story did not allege to me, as a reason for diminishing the allowance, that his business had fallen off; he made that excuse in the Court when he had stopped it; he stopped it suddenly—I was present when that excuse was made, and I think this is the very gentleman that was there. (The RECORDER.)—my husband has been summoned several times, most unfortunately; trades people have brought actions against him on my account, and I have been a witness—I have not been receiving a living from my husband—I have been totally destitue.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. (for Batchelor). Q. Had you seen Bachelor before on any occasion? A. I did not know him—my husband called him up from below while I was struggling with him—he said, "Batchelor, come up stairs"—he was very soon up stairs, and my husband said to him, "Knock that woman down, she is not my wife"—Batchelor thumped me between the shoulders—he put up his hands to push me out of the room; the effect of that pressure was to force me towards the door—when they dragged the chair from under me, I did not fall to the ground, I took care of that—I was knocked down on the ground; I was knocked down stairs—I was knocked right from the top of the stairs to the bottom—I held the hand rail till Batchelor thumped my hand, and made me leave go; and then down I went to the bottom—I did not slip down, I was knocked down—I came down on my back.
MR. METCALFE. Q. I think you said, you had no debts while the guinea a week was kept up? A. No, I had not; I had after that—the guinea week was paid in consequence of an arrangement made by Mr. Serjeant Parry, but he has not been kind enough to act up to what he said, that he would see it paid; instead of that Mr. Roe told me there was only 15s.—during these proceedings there was a promise to keep up the guinea a week; it was paid for one week, and then dropped to 15s.—my absence from home has been altogether in consequence of my husband's ill treatment—I have
been driven about like a hunted hare from one home to another; indeed I have not any real home—I have not been allowed to see my children for years—I have never had the slightest quarrel with my daughter, or either of my children—I was not contemplating any violence to my daughter.
COURT. Q. Where were you when the policeman came in? A. On the landing—he saw me coming down the stairs on my back—he was then at the bottom of the stairs.
REUBEN BUTTON . (City policeman, 322). On 2nd Dec., I was called in to Mr. Story's house, on to the first floor, I there saw Mr. and Mrs. Story, and their daughter, and Batchelor, standing at the top of the landing—Mrs. Story said she had been struck by some one behind; I did not hear her say by whom—Mr. Story asked me to put her out—I asked him who she was—he said, "Never mind who she is, put her out"—I said, "I believe it is Mrs. Story"—she said, "Yes, I am, I am his wife;" and I said, "Stop here"—I told him I could not put her out, I could not interfere if she was his wife—she then sat down in a chair—he asked Batchelor to put her out—Batchelor took hold of the back of the chair to lift it up, and Mrs. Story got up and sat down in another chair—he took that up in the same way, and took hold of Mrs. Story behind to put her towards the landing—she then caught hold of the banister, and clung to it; and while he was pulling her away I passed to the bottom of the stairs, and left him to put her down stairs—I saw the m come down stairs—I believe he had hold of her behind, pushing her in front of him—when they got to the bottom of the stairs, Mr. Story asked her to go out—she refused—he then opened the door, and told Batchelor to put her out; and he then put her out at the door—I believe she slipped down two or three steps towards the bottom of the stairs—I did not see her down on the ground—I believe Batchelor had hold of her behind, he was behind her; I was then standing at the bottom of the stairs—Batchelor was forcing her down the stairs—she did not come on her back at the bottom of the stairs; she did not tumble at all, nothing more than slipping down; she came on her backside, two or three steps from the bottom—she clung to the banisters at the top of the stairs—I believe Batchelor pulled her hands away; but I passed to the bottom of the stairs before he got them away—I did not see him strike her hands, I cannot tell whether he did or not—I heard a female scream when I entered the shop first, but not after I got on to the stairs.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Was it not the daughter who was screaming when you first entered? A. I do not know—Mrs. Story appeared very much excited—I saw her pushed down Stairs—Mr. Story might have said something about seeing what force was used, for he was afraid she would make a false charge against him—I did not hear him ask me to watch what force was used to turn her out—he sent his lad for me; it was at his request that I came—he asked his wife to leave the house quietly, and not to make a disturbance—she said it was her home, and she would stop there—Mr. Story opened the door, and directed Batchelor to remove her and to turn her out—except the scuffling on the stairs, no more violence was used than was necessary to put a person out, if resisting—I saw no extra violence, no blow struck; if there was any, it was before I got up stairs—I do not remember Mr. Story saying to Batchelor, "Don't use any more violence than is necessary"—he told him to mind that she did not fall down, when he put her out at the street door—I do not recollect hearing him ask me to stand before her at the stairs to prevent her, as she would throw herself down, and say that Batchelor had done it—I believe he did
not ask me to plant myself at the bottom of the stairs to prevent her falling down—we were perhaps ten minutes in the room before we got out.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was not the falling down two or three stairs in consequence of Batchelor pushing her? A. I have no doubt of it—I have seen Mr. Story since this matter happened—I have not been to his house since.
(MR. SERJEANT PARRY. inquired whether the Court was of opinion that Mr. Story had no right, in point of law, to compel his wife to leave the house, and to remove her if she refused. The RECORDER. was of opinion that he had no such right.)
STORY— GUILTY .
BATCHELOR— GUILTY .
(The JURY. stated that there seemed to have been great provocation on both sides, but that no more violence was used than was necessary to put the prosecutrix out of the house.) Judgment Respited.
NEW COURT.—Monday, January 5th, 1857.
PRESENT—Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart, Ald.; Mr. Ald. EAGLETON; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Fifth Jury.
MR. RIBTON. conducted the Prosecution.
ABRAHAM LAMBERT . I am car boy to Messrs. Statham and Parker. On Saturday, 15th Nov., I was in charge of a cart of their's, in Thames-street—it had in it four bags of chicory, and a case containing four boxes of tea—it was between 3 and 4 o'clock—I had loaded it at Nicholson's-wharf—shortly afterwards I saw the prisoner White—he goes by the name of Sixpence—he asked me if I had any money—I told him, "No"—he said, "I have got 2d.; let us come and spend it"—that was near Lenham's warehouse—he took me into a public house, and called for a pint of beer—I left my horse and cart outside, close by Lenham's warehouse—I saw Dennis outside the public house—he said to White, "Won't you give us a whet?"—White said, "Yes, if you come in for it"—he came in, and drank some beer—I was coming out, and Dennis said, "I have had some of your beer; I will have a pint, and give you some"—he called for a pint of beer, and gave me the pot to drink out of—I saw White wink his eye, and Dennis and he were talking about something—I went out, and found the cart was gone—I went into the public house—I found White, but Dennis was not there—I think I left him in the house—I did not see him come out—I told White the cart was gone—he would hardly believe it—he came out with me—he did not remain with me five minutes—he went away—I saw a beadle in Thames-street, and told him—I saw Dennis again on Sunday morning, when he was in custody.
COURT. Q. Who was it winked? A. White winked to Dennis, and Dennis made a sort of sneer, and Dennis said, "Will you wait?"
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you drink out of White's and Dennis's beer also? A. Yes—the room we were in looked into the street—it is next to Lenham's warehouse—the cart was about two yards from the public house door.
MR. RIBTON. Q. When you were in the house, could you see into the street? A. No; the front was too high for me to see over.
WILLIAM SAVAGE . (policeman, H 212). On Saturday, 15th Nov., I took Dennis into custody, about 12 o'clock at night—I saw him in St. George's-street, Ratcliff-highway, showing this instrument which I produce to another lad—it is such an instrument as is used by warehousemen for prising boxes open—a man named Wilmott was with him—I took Dennis to the station—when he was in the cell, he called me to the cell door, and said, "It was me and Sixpence that took the boy into the public house, but it was Wilmott and Morell that took the horse and cart away; I do not think I ought to be charged with stealing it"—I had not charged him with stealing it, but Mr. Parker had been to the station—Dennis said the same to me afterwards, in coming to the Court on Monday morning.
Cross-examined. Q. What did you tell him when you took him? A. That I should take him into custody for having this instrument in his possession—when I got to the station, the persons there knew it.
JOHN SUMMERFIELD . (City policeman, 533). I apprehended White, about 10 minutes past 2 o'clock, on 21st Nov.—I told him it was for being concerned with three others in stealing a horse and cart, containing tea and chicory, in Lower Thames-street, on Saturday, 15th Nov.—he said, "I will tell you all about it"—I told him what he said would be used against him—he said, "I was dragged into it by three others, Dennis and Morell, who have been charged at the Mansion House, and Wilmott;" and he told me that he received from Wilmott 13s. as his share of what the tea was sold for, and that Wilmott gave him 2d. to take the lad in and treat him, and then Dennis came in and stood another pint.
PETER PARKER . I am in partnership with Mr. Statham; we are carriers. On Saturday, 15th Nov., I received some information, and on the Sunday I found my horse and cart in the Green-yard at Greenwich—there were four bags of chicory in it, and an empty case—the value of the horse and cart and harness was about 28l.—White had been in my employ—he left being regularly in my employ about two years ago; since then he has been so occasionally—I saw White in custody—he said he was very sorry; he was quite dragged into it—I told him, if he told me anything, to tell nothing but the truth—he said that he had been quite dragged into it, and that one of them gave him 2d.—I think he said it was Morell, and he and Dennis were to entice the lad into the public house, and the other two were to lay their hands on anything they could get; and if they could not take a chest of tea, they were to take the horse and cart; and when he came out the horse and cart were gone; that it was agreed they were to meet at 11 o'clock at night, and they gave him 13s. for his share.
White's Defence. I have only to say that I was led into it by others. (Mr. Parker game White a good character.)
WHITE— GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Three Months.
DENNIS— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined One Month.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 47.— Confined Four Months.
MAUDE PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.
SARAH AGUILAR . I am the wife of Emanuel Aguilar; we live in Albany-street, Regent's-park. On Wednesday, 10th Dec, I was walking with my aunt, in Wilson-street, Finsbury, about 2 o'clock—I had my purse in my hand—the prisoner Maude rushed at me; he struck me, and tried to get my purse—I grasped it more tightly—he gave me another blow, and got the purse—he struck me so hard a blow on my arm, that I could not use my hand for three days—when he got my purse, I instantly called, "Thief!"—he went down a court, and my aunt ran after him—I ran straight on; I do not know why; it was fright, I suppose—in about two minutes Maude was brought back by a gentleman—I had in my purse a cheque for 8l., and 2s. in silver—the purse was found in Langham's pocket—I did not see him till he was brought to me by a gentleman.
SARAH HENRY . I was walking, with the last witness in Wilson-street, on Wednesday, 10th Dec.—I saw the prisoner Maude come up; he struck the last witness's arm—he gave her a second blow, and called out something—he ran down a court—I saw he had taken something, and I ran after him—after he had gone some way, a gentleman stopped him—I went up, and he asked if he had robbed me—I said, "No," but I begged the gentleman to hold him fast—another gentleman took Langham—I saw the purse taken out of Langham's pocket by the policeman.
WILLIAM LONG . I am a porter. I was passing through Wilson-street, on 10th Dec., about 2 o'clock—I saw four ladies, and I heard a cry, "Stop thief!"—I went up to the ladies, and saw Maude run—I made a slip, and fell over the kerb stone, and in getting up I saw Langham run away, and snatch up something—I had seen Maude apparently throw something down, and Langham took it up—I saw him go up South-place, into Cross-street—I cannot say whether he was running before he picked up something.
Langham. He says that he ran after me, but he said before that he ran after the other prisoner. Witness. I ran after you down Wilson-street, into Cross-street, where you were taken—I stood behind you when you were using threatening language.
MOSS PHILLIPS . I was in Wilson-street—I heard the cry of "Stop thief!" by the ladies—I saw Langham running, and ran as fast as I could after him—I caught him in South-street, and he threatened if I did not let him go that he would run me through with a knife—I held his hand—he wanted to get his hand in his pocket, but I would not allow him to do it—I brought him back to the policeman, and said, "Look in his pocket, he has got something he wanted to throw away"—the policeman put his hand in his pocket, and took this purse out.
Langham. I did not say any such thing as he states; I was drinking out of a ladle, and he hit me in the mouth with it. Witness. I did not, he said he wanted some water, which was only to try to get away—I kept him tight because he should not go—he is a most desperate fellow.
JAMES BROWN . (City policeman, 156). I saw Langham in custody of the last witness—I searched him, and found this purse in, his pocket—I had seen him running as fast as he could—in going across Finsbury-square he asked me to let him have some water, and I allowed him to have a drop—he had been using bad language to the last witness; said he would stick him through with a knife, and other bad language, and when he was drinking I cautioned the witness not to go near him for fear he should receive some mischief from him—no one struck him with the ladle, no one touched it but himself—this is the purse.
Langham's Defence. I went to see for some work; I saw the purse in the road, and picked it up; I know nothing of this boy, only by seeing him at the top of Long-alley, when I have been coming from breakfast.
LANGHAM— GUILTY. of receiving. Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19. Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 14.
Confined Twenty One Days, and to be sent to a Reformatory.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Six Months.
COLLEY PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 14.
HARRISON PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.
Confined One Month.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Twelve Months.
JAMES MOFFATT . (policeman, G 94.) On Monday, 1st Dec, I was in the Curtain-road, about 6 o'clock in the morning; I saw the prisoner and another man going along—the other man had a bundle—I followed them about 150 yards—they parted, and the prisoner went on the other side—I followed the man with the bundle, and stopped him—I asked him a question or two, and he threw down the bundle and ran off—the prisoner came across; I said to him, "What do you want?"—he made no reply, but went to the other side of the street—I left the bundle, and ran after the man who had carried it; but I looked back, and saw the prisoner had crossed the street, and was again by the bundle—I came back, and the prisoner ran
off—I ran after him, but I lost him—I took the bundle to the station, and found this property (produced) in it; here are ten blankets, four sheets, and other articles—while we were examining the bundle, the prisoner was brought in, and he had this table cloth, or wrapper round his neck—part of these things seem new—I charged the prisoner with having these things in his possession; he made no reply—I searched him, and found on him a few matches, a knife, and three pieces of candle.
JOHN NICHOLLS . (policeman, G 180). On the morning of 1st Dec, I saw the prisoner running, at 10 minutes past 6 o'clock—I placed myself in a corner in North-place, and stood till he came, and took him—I said, "What are you running for?"—he said, "Nothing"—I took him to the station.
GEORGE ARNOLD . I live at No. 108, Shoreditch, it is the parish of St. Leonard, Shoreditch; and it was my dwelling house at that time. On the night of 30th Nov., at half past 10 o'clock at night, I fastened the house safe—next morning I discovered this robbery—a pane of glass had been taken out of the skylight, and some things were missing—I sent word to the station house directly—a person could not get into house, he could only get his arm in, the iron bars are only about four inches apart—my house is not more than 300 yards from the Curtain-road—when I went to the top of my house I detected the robbery—I found the wrappers in which the goods had been; they had untied the wrappers in the house, and taken the articles out separately, and the wrappers were left outside on the roof—I have looked at the property that was in the bundle—the articles were mine in trust, they were pawned with me—they were all in the warehouse—one blanket is marked, and the person to whom it belongs identifies it—I am sure the things were all safe at half past 10 o'clock at night—I know this table cloth, or d'oyley cover, that was round the prisoner's neck; it had been round one blanket—here are ten blankets, and other articles—I am certain they are all such as I missed—they must have been three or four hours in doing what they did—it would take them a long time.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.) JAMES MOFFATT. (policeman, G 94). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction—(Read: Central Criminal Court, Nov. 1855; George Whateley, convicted of stealing two tables and other articles: Confined One Year)—the prisoner is the man; George Whateley is his right name, I believe.
GUILTY. Aged21.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, January 6th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY. to the 3rd Count, and received a good character. —Aged 32. Confined One Month.
MR. SHARPE. conducted the Prosecution.
STEPHEN ROSE . I am a fisherman, and live at Stanlake, Oxfordshire. About 8th or 9th Dec. I came up to town to receive 44l.—I received it on Friday, the 12th, at Groves's, and different places, and returned with it to Mr. Barwell's, of the Marlborough Arms—I left it with him, and went into New Oxford-street, and met the prisoner there—he asked me whether I had been to the cattle show—I told him I had—he then asked me if I knew where Wadley was, and Latchford, and Farringdon, which is near where I was living—I said that I did, and he asked me if I knew Mr. Goodluck, the squire—I said, "Yes"—he said that he had been living there the best part of his time, and since then at Reading—he asked me where I was going—I said, "To Mr. Barwell's, to have a glass of beer"—he said that he would go with me; he pointed to a house, and we went in—there were several people eating, and he said that we would not stop there—we went to a second, a third, and a fourth public house; the fourth was empty, and he said, "This will do, we can have a pipe here"—it was near Mr. Barwell's, close to Oxford-market—he called for a pint of porter, and paid for it; we had another pint, and I paid for that—a man then came in, and said that he had been kept out of a certain sum of money for the last six years, and had now got it; that it was 2, 500l. and twenty houses, and that there was a certain sum to be given to the poor in different parishes—(he did not appear to know the prisoner)—the prisoner said that he should like to have 20l. to distribute where he was living, Reading, and said, "I dare say my friend," meaning me, "would like to do so also?"—I said, "No, it would be only a nuisance to me"—he said, "You may as well have 20l. "—the other man said that we must have a little capital of our own, and the prisoner pulled out a sovereign and a shilling, and said that that was all the money he had got, and asked me what money I had—I said that I had 6s. in my pocket, and 44l., which I had left at Mr. Barwell's—the prisoner said that I might as well go and fetch it, to show that I had some, and he would go with me; so we went to the Blenheim-steps, and I went and fetched it, and came back, and the other man was standing outside the door—he said that if we would go down Tottenham-court-road, to his clerk's office, he would pay us—we went round the back way, and went to a public house, I forget the name; the other man said, "We will have a pint of beer"—the prisoner said, "We can drink a quart," so we had a quart—the other man paid for it, and said, "I will go to my clerk's office, and then I will pay you"—the prisoner heard that—the other man only drank a little drop out of one of the glasses, and was going out to his office when the prisoner said, "How do we know that you will come back?"—he said, "I will leave my capital in your hands," and he did so, and the prisoner put his handkerchief over it—it was a pocket book, with some notes he said they were—he showed me some papers, which he said were 5l. notes, but they were not very near to me—he came back in a little time, and said that his clerk would be there, and if we would go and get two stamped receipts he would give us the money, but said, "How do I know you will come back?"—the prisoner said, "I will leave my capital in your hands, and I dare say my friend will"—the prisoner then put his purse into the other man's hat—he had showed me a sovereign in it, as he said, and two 5l. notes—I said, "I shall not put my capital into his hat"—he went and fetched two stamped receipts, and wanted me to go outside with him, but I would not—he showed me two bits of paper, but I did not have them in my hands—he
sat down, and the other man got up and went out, and said that he had been to his clerk again, and he could not come yet—he brought two purses back, which he said he had given a shilling for in the street—the prisoner said that he should very much like to have one of them—the other man said, "You shall have one, give me your money, and I will put it in for you"—he handed him his money, and he put it in—the prisoner then said, "No doubt my friend would like to have the other purse?"—I said, "It is of no use to me, as I have got one;" but he over persuaded me to have it, and so did the other—he said, "You give me your money, and I will put it in"—I said, "No, if you like to make me a present of the purse, I will put it in"—he said, "You hold the purse, and I will put the money in "—the purse remained in my hands all the time—the prisoner said that it did not appear that his clerk was coming very quickly, and he should much like to have a sovereign for his trouble—the other man put a sovereign in, and gave him the purse back—he then said, "My friend would like to have a sovereign, no doubt," meaning me—he said, "You give me your purse, and I will put it in for you"—I said, "No, if you like to make me a present of a sovereign well and good, I can put it in"—he held out his hand for me to take the sovereign, and as I was looking, the other man snatched the purse out of my hand, and pretended to drop a sovereign into it, and then gave it to me back—I was then between them; one was on one side, and one on the other—he said that he was just going across the road to a shop, and would send the shopman across to me, and make me a present of something—they both went out, and I was almost certain that I had been cheated; that was the first time that that dawned upon me—I did not look at the purse, but went out at the door, and saw them both running very fast—I ran after them more than 100 yards, and then caught the prisoner, and said, "You have got my money"—he said, "I have not, you go and catch the other man"—I said, "No, I shall take you"—he tried to get away, but I said that it was of no use, as I intended to hold him; he struggled, but I held him, and gave him into custody—I found in the purse 14d. in coppers, and seven counterfeit sovereigns—I gave the purse to the policeman, in the same state as I received it from the third man—it was a net purse, put on the outside of the other which I had got; mine was a sort of bag—the fellow purse was not found, but I saw it when the prisoner received it from the third person; it was exactly like this—I was perfectly sober—I had only had one glass of beer before I went in, but the part of the three pints of porter which I took had a wonderful effect upon me—some of the last pint was left when they ran away—when I left the second public house I was in no wise drunk, but I found the ill effects of the two pints of porter, I was quite as well as I was when I left the first public house.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. I suppose you are not accustomed to London beer? A. I have had it a few times—I have not been in London often, twice in a year—I received the money for fish—I left it with the landlord in a sort of holland bag; there was no string to it, it was not fastened, only doubled up—his mistress returned it to me, and I counted it there, and once afterwards, in the presence of both the prisoners—I did not give my purse up, the man snatched it as I was holding it in one hand; I will not exactly say which—the priosner was talking to met at the time—my purse was not returned to me without the money, but another one was given to me exactly like mine on the outside.
MR. SHARPE. Q. Do you mean like your purse, or like the one that was
given to you? A. Like the one that was given to me—I counted my money in the second public house on the table.
HENRY TOFIELD . (policeman, E 76). I saw the prisoner struggling with the prosecutor, and went up and took him into custody—the prosecutor gave him in charge for stealing 44l.—he endeavoured to escape—I found on him at the station two receipt stamps, a purse, and a book (produced)—this purse (produced) the prosecutor gave me in the state it is now, with 14d. in halfpence, and seven counterfeit sovereigns.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see anything of the other man? A. No.
MR. RIBTON. contended, that the snatching the purse was not the act of the prisoner, as, although they might have intended to rob him, it did not follow that they intended to do so by violence. THE COURT considered, that if the Jury were of opinion that the two men were acting in concert, the act of one would be the act of both.
GUILTY .* Aged 54.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
It appearing by the evidence (for which see next page) that the pretence by which the prisoner obtained the money was that he had done the work, and not that he was employed by the Commissioners of Sewers, The court directed a verdict of
NOT GUILTY. and that a fresh bill should be preferred before the Grand Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.—(See page 262.)
JAMES DALEY . I am thirteen years old, and live at No. 12, Ratcliff-court, Glasshouse-yard. On a Saturday, about the end of Nov., I had been to Bishopsgate-street to take a bonnet, and was going up the Strand—I had a box with me, and 11s. 6d. in money—I had the money in my hand, because I had a hole in my pocket—as I was going along a boy spoke to me, it was the prisoner—he said, "Here is a bag to put your money in"—I took the bag of him, and put the money into it—he said, "Lend it to me, and I will tie it up for you"—I gave it to him—I did not see what he put into it—he then gave it me, and turned down Long-alley—when I got to Finsbury-square I examined the bag, and there was coffee in it, and no money—I saw the prisoner again, about three weeks afterwards, in Aldersgate-street—I went to get hold of him, and he ran away; I ran after him—he ran into Whitecross-street—I there threw him down, and kept him down till a policeman came, when I gave him in charge—he is bigger than me.
RICHARD WITHERIDGE . (policeman, G 207). I was called by the last witness—when I first saw him he had got the prisoner on his back in the middle of the street—when I got up to him he was on his legs—he gave the prisoner into my charge—the prisoner said he was not guilty of the charge.
Prisoners Defence. I never saw the boy before; he came and laid hold
of me, as I was walking along, and chocked me down, and accused me of stealing his money.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Four Months.
WILLIAM TURNER . (City policeman, 449). On Sunday night last I saw the prisoner in Gresham-street—he had an empty bag on his shoulder—he went into the Swan with Two Necks; he remained there a quarter of an hour, then came out, and stood talking for two or three minutes to a policeman on the beat—the policeman then went round his beat, and, as he turned the corner of Aldermanbury, the prisoner stooped down, and drew a piece of lead, with a cord attached to it, to the gateway—it weighed 48 lbs.—I saw him draw it—he then put it into the bag, and put it on his shoulder—I followed him to the corner of Aldermanbury, and said, "What have you got here?"—he said, "I think it is a piece of lead"—I said, "I shall take you into custody"—I took him to Bow-lane station—on going along, he said, "I intended taking it to the inspector at Moor-lane station"—he first said that the landlord of the Gresham Arms had given him the bag.
FORD. I am servant to Mary Davey, who keeps the Swan with Two Necks. I know the prisoner by sight, by being there, and being employed in taking things to Chaplin and Horne's—on the Sunday afternoon in question he came down into the cellar where I was at work, a little after 4 o'clock—he wanted to know where the chopper was—I said, "It is in its place; what do you want with it?"—he said, "I do not want it for anything"—he followed me up the stairs—I afterwards saw the watchman bring in the chopper—it was not in the cellar—I saw the prisoner again a little after 6 o'clock—he went away a little after 9 o'clock—I was called by the watchman to see the piece of lead; it was lying inside the gate—I stopped there with him, and after the lapse of a few minutes the lead disappeared from under the gate, drawn by a piece of strings—I then went out, and found the prisoner in custody.
WILLIAM TURNER . re-examined. I examined the roof at Mr. Chaplin's—I found that some lead had been recently removed from there—I took up this piece of lead and fitted it to the roof, and it corresponded with every nail hole; the edge was jagged as it would be if done by a chopper—it is the property of Mr. Chaplin.
Prisoner's Defence. I was talking to the constable on the Sunday evening, and when he had gone I saw a bundle lying, partly under the gateway and partly in the street; I had a bag under my arm, which was given me by the landlord of the Gresham Arms; I put the lead in it, and went in the direction of Moor-lane, when the constable took me into custody.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
existed in my drains—he said that he had put a new connecting drain pipe, and had made the communication with the sewer more complete—on that representation I paid him 6s.—he had stated from time to time, that he was in the employment of the Commissioners of Sewers.
JOHN THOMAS JONES . I live in Leadenhall-street. The prisoner came to my house about some alleged difficulty in the drainage—he said that the pipe was cracked and wanted repairing, and that he should be passing down the sewers, and was employed by the Commissioners of Sewers—I gave him directions to do it, and two hours afterwards he came and said that he had made a good job of it, and I paid him 5s.
Prisoner. He brought me into his cellar, where there were a lot of rat holes, and ordered me to get broken bottles to fill the holes up, for which I paid 1s. 6d., besides the mortar and cement; and when I was ready to do it he would not allow me, as he said it would disturb the wine, therefore he imposed upon me. Witness. That was on the next day to this, and at another house; I had my suspicions in consequence of the indirect way that he went into the sewer; and then he kicked up a row about the mortar and glass, and went away after blackguarding me.
LEWIS CHRISTOPHER HASLIP . I am clerk of the works to the Commissioners of Sewers. The prisoner was in the employment of a contractor eight years since, but since then he has had nothing to do with the sewers—I have examined the drains; King's is a brick drain, and wanted nothing done to it; Mr. Jones's is a pipe drain, put down between three and four years ago, and nothing has been done to it since.
Prisoner's Defence. Mr. Jones has perjured himself, for I never said anything about the Commissioners; I did the work, and I paid for the bottles, by which I lost 1s. 6d.
GUILTY . Aged 52.— Confined Nine Months.
MARY ANN KENT . I am the wife of John Kent, of No. 39, More-street, Chelsea. On Sunday evening, 14th Dec., I was going to my mother's lodgings, in Princes-street, Chelsea—I knocked at the door, and a man came up the steps—I. made way for him to pass, supposing him to be a lodger; he put his hand on my side, and attempted to take my chain—I had on this watch and chain (produced)—I screamed; he ran away, and I found my chain broken—I saw him about a quarter of an hour afterwards, but cannot say whether the prisoner is the man; he had something light on—I pointed out to Norman the direction he took.
WILLIAM NORMAN . I live at No. 8, Princes-street. I was sitting down stairs, and heard Mrs. Kent cry out—I went in the direction she pointed out, and saw the prisoner running forty or fifty yards in front of me—I pursued him, and only lost sight of him as he turned the corner—I came up to him in about three minutes, opposite Mr. Hinchliff's factory—he was quite out of breath, and asked what I wanted of him—I said that I would let him see in a few minutes—he said that he was not going to be humbugged in that manner, he would go home; I said that he should not—a constable came up, and I told him that he had attempted to steal a watch—the prisoner said nothing.
WILLIAM GAYGAN . I am twelve years old, and live with my father, at No. 35, Oxford-street, Chelsea. I was playing at hide and seek on the opposite side of the street, and saw the prisoner go up the steps, and put one hand on the lady's shoulder, and the other on the chain; she screamed out,
"He has got my chain!"—he ran down the steps, and across the road—I ran after him, and saw him taken by Norman—I am sure he is the person.
HENRY TENANT . I live at College-place, Chelsea. On this Sunday evening, I was in the Marlborough-road, about fifteen yards from Princes-street, and saw the man pass me, but did not take particular notice of him till I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—I then ran round one way, while he ran the other—I caught him in the act of running in a direction from Princes-street—I am positive he is the man.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
WILLIAM DOYLE . I was in the police. I produce a certificate—(Read: Robert Brown, convicted at Westminster Sessions, Oct 1854, of stealing 11s., having then been before convicted; Confined Six Months)—I was present, to prove the former conviction—the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY. Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, January 6th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. EAGLETON.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Sixth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
O'HARA PLEADED GUILTY .—Aged 40.
WARD PLEADED GUILTY .—Aged 34.
Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN MILLER . I am barmaid at the Cranbourn Hotel, in St. Martin's-lane. On 18th Dec. the prisoner came, about 1 o'clock in the morning, for half a quartern of gin—it came to 2d.—she gave me a bad shilling—I perceived it immediately, and I told her so—a gentleman who was there looked at it, and bent it with his teeth—I did not lose sight of it—I called my mistress, and gave her the shilling—a policeman was called, and the prisoner was given into custody—Mrs. Willoughby gave the shilling to the policeman—it had not been out of my sight—this is it—I recognize it by the marks on it.
Prisoner. I had crossed the road, and I could have gone away if I had been so disposed. Witness. No, the policeman met her in the passage.
Mrs. Willoughby—I saw that the prisoner had something in her hand—I asked her to let me see what it was, and she put it into her mouth—I made her put it out, and I found it was another bad shilling—this is it—there was a good sixpence found on her, and 4 1/2 d. in copper.
Prisoner. I beg for mercy; I am a poor creature.
GUILTY . Aged 36.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS PHILLIPS . I live at Knightsbridge, and am a corn dealer. On Friday, 12th Dec., about 5 o'clock, the prisoner came to my shop for a pint of oatmeal—it came to 1d—he gave me a half crown, and I gave him 2s. 5d.—from the prisoner's appearance I took it inside, and showed it to Mrs. Phillips—I put it into my waistcoat pocket, where there was no other money—on the Saturday the prisoner came again, about half past 6 or 7 o'clock—he asked for half a quartern of flour, and threw down a half crown—I recognized him, and gave him in charge with the two half crowns—the prisoner said he would pay me for the flour.
Prisoner. I went on the Saturday night, and gave him a half crown, and he said it was bad; he said if I would give him 5s. in good money he would let me go. Witness. I did not tell him so—I told him he was the person that passed the half crown the day before, and I said I was very much mistaken if I had not seen him in my shop before.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
SMITH PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES TOOMER . I keep the Manor House, in the Green-lanes. On 9th Nov. I was in my inner bar, and I was called to my outer bar by my barman, about 7 o'clock in the evening—I saw the prisoner Welch, and a bad shilling which he had presented to my barman—I put it between my teeth and defaced it, and threw it back to him—he took it up, and paid in coppers for what he had had, and went away with the bad shilling.
Welch. Q. Did you see me give the shilling to your barman? A. No—there was one other person there, who is a friend of mine—I threw the bad shilling down, and said, "I suppose you know this is a bad one," and you took it up and paid in copper—I am sure you are the person.
HENRY FRYER . I keep the Black Bull, at Edmonton. On Saturday evening, 13th Dec, the prisoner Smith came, about half past 7 o'clock—he called for half a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco—they came to 2d.—he threw down a counterfeit shilling—I said to him, "This is a bad one; where did you get it?"—he said he did not know—I wrapped it up in a
piece of paper—he said, "Are you going to give it me back?"—I said, "No, not at present"—he said it was of no use to me nor to him if it was bad—he gave me a penny for the half pint of beer, and I took the screw of tobacco back again—my house is about three miles from the last witness's, and a mile and a half from the Fox—I kept the shilling till the Tuesday, and gave it to the policeman.
EMMA PARKER . My father keeps the Fox, at Edmonton. On 13th Dec. the prisoner Smith came, between half past 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—he asked for half a pint of porter and a screw of tobacco—I served him—he offered me a half crown—I put it in the brass detector and bent it—I told him it was bad—he gave me a penny for the beer, and went away with the half crown.
ELIZA SANDERSON . My father keeps the Cock, at Edmonton. On 13th Dec. Smith came, about a quarter past 9 o'clock at night, for half a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco—he gave me a counterfeit shilling—I held it in my hand and gave him change—he drank the porter and went away—I looked more particularly at the shilling which was still in my hand—I found it was bad—I gave it to the ostler, and desired him to pursue the prisoner.
WILLIAM OWEN . I am ostler at the Cock. The last witness gave me the shilling, and in consequence of what she said I went in pursuit of Smith towards London—when I had gone some distance I saw Welch standing still—I took notice of him, but I did not speak to him—I went straight on, and overtook Smith about fifty yards ahead of Welch—I went past him without speaking to him—I then looked back, and saw them both together talking, and walking behind me—I afterwards saw the constable Phipps, and gave him the shilling, and then he and I went together in the direction where the prisoners were—we found them crossing some fields towards Hornsey, in a footpath—they were together, and were taken into custody.
WILLIAM PHIPPS . (policeman, N 331). I produce this shilling, I received it from the last witness—I went with him, and took the prisoners into custody—they were together—I told Smith he was charged with passing a bad shilling—he said he did not know it was bad—I called the assistance of two civilians to take Welch.
(Welch's statement before the Magistrate was: "It is all false.")
Welch's Defence. I know nothing about this man, only he asked me for a lucifer, and I gave it him.
WELCH— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and BODKIN. conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH HOUGH . My father keeps the Anchor and Crown, in High-street, Mile-end New Town. I was attending there on 15th Dec, about half past 4 o'clock in the afternoon—the two prisoners came in—they appeared to be in company—Brown called for 6d. worth of gin—I gave it him, and he threw down a shilling, which I perceived to be bad—I tried it in the detector, and bent it very easily—I returned it to him in the same state, bent—he took it, and threw down another shilling, and that was bad—I
treated that in the same way, and returned it to him, and he threw down a half crown—Johnson was at that time in front of the bar—the half crown was good, and I gave him change, a Victoria shilling and two sixpences—I am quite sure the shilling I gave him was a Victoria one—he took possession of that money, and he turned round with his back to me, and spoke to Johnson—I did not hear what they said—Johnson then came to the bar, and said, "See if this is good, the change you have given to my husband," and she produced one shilling and two sixpences—I found the shilling was a bad one, and of the reign of George the Fourth—it was not the one I had given to Brown, that was a Victoria—I said to Johnson, "This is not the shilling I gave your husband, it was a Victoria one"—I then said to my brother, loud enough for her to hear, "George, go and fetch a constable"—Brown was at that time not two yards from Johnson, and Brown went out of the house—my father detained Johnson in the bar—the constable Reed came, and I gave him the bad shilling, and Johnson was given into custody—Brown had come back in about five minutes.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What is your detector made of? A. Brass—Johnson was in front of the bar when Brown gave me the half crown—she was sitting down on the seat outside the bar, and she insisted upon it that the shilling she gave me was the one I had given to Brown—my brother went out to fetch a policeman at the time the two prisoners were there—Brown went out immediately after I sent my brother for the policeman, but he came in again almost directly—he was not brought back in custody, he had been out and came back before my brother got the constable—the Victoria shilling which I gave to Brown was the only shilling I had in the till—I had taken it immediately before the prisoners came in—I am quite sure it was a Victoria one—it is not my custom to look at every shilling to see of what reign it is—my brother came in about five minutes after Brown.
GEORGE HOUGH . I am brother of the last witness. On 15th Dec. I saw the two prisoners in my father's house—I heard a conversation between them and my sister—I saw the first and the second counterfeit shilling—I afterwards saw a good half crown—I saw Brown take from my sister the change out of the half crown, two sixpences and one shilling—I heard my sister say it was a George's shilling that she gave—I did not see what shilling it was—I afterwards saw a shilling and two sixpences brought by Johnson and put on the counter, and that shilling was a bad one—my sister told me to fetch a constable, and I went out for that purpose—at that time Brown was outside, about twenty-five yards from the door—he had his hands in his pockets, and he threw something away—there is a wall near there, and with his right hand he tried to throw something over the wall—I heard something link like money, and it fell on this side of the wall, it did not go over—I went back to the house, and Brown went back after he had thrown away this money—when I got back my father was there, and he was holding the prisoner Brown, who was standing against the counter, and he tried to rescue Johnson—he pulled my father on one side—two constables came, one of them went inside and searched Brown, and the other went with me to where I had seen Brown throw something—we there found one shilling—I picked it up, and gave it to the constable—it was about three feet from the brick wall.
Cross-examined. Q. What part of the bar were you in at the time of the conversation with your sister and Brown? A. I was by the back parlour door—I heard her say on two occasions it was a bad shilling—I then heard
my sister say to Johnson that it was a bad shilling—Brown went out, and I went out and saw him throw away something—at that time I did not go for an officer, I came back—I felt afraid, as Brown looked at me so much—he followed me in—I went for a constable directly afterwards—when my father was holding Johnson, Brown pushed him away, and Johnson fell.
ALFRED REED . (policeman, H 105). I was called to the house to take the prisoners—I got one counterfeit shilling and two good sixpences from Elizabeth Hough—I found two bad shillings which were straight, in Brown's trowsers pocket—I told him he was charged with uttering counterfeit coin, he made no reply—I did not take Johnson—Brown did not say anything at the time, but the next morning he said he had taken change for a half sovereign and got the silver—I saw a shilling that was thrown away—there was one good Victoria shilling found on him, which was given back to him.
HENRY GROVES . (policeman, H 72). I assisted in taking the prisoners—I went with George Hough, and got one shilling from him—this is it—I heard Brown say at the station, "So help me God, Bet, I think this is a twelvemonth's job for us," and he said to me, "Don't you think so?"
Cross-examined. Q. Where was this? A. In the dock at the station—the sergeant was present, but he is not here—Miss Hough was there, but she was not very close—I consider both the prisoners were drunk, not very drunk, but the worse for liquor.
Brown's Defence. I got change for a half sovereign, at Coates's, in Whitechapel.
BROWN— GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Twelve Months.
JOHNSON— GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM THOMAS . (police sergeant, F 17). On 19th Dec., I went to a house in Porter-street, Soho, about 9 o'clock in the evening—I was in plain clothes—before I got there, I saw Phillips come out of the shop, and go across the street—I was then six or seven yards from the shop—I went into the shop immediately—no one had gone into the shop from the time Phillips came out till I went in—there was no one in the shop—there is a counter running the length of the shop, and there is a parlour behind the shop—it is necessary to go through the counter to get to the parlour—I and Radford, another officer, went into the parlour; I found Wallis sitting down at needle work near the fire—there was a table in the room, and on the table was this small box—I said to Wallis, "What have you here?" taking up the box at the time—she made no answer—I looked in the box, and it contained counterfeit money—I took my handkerchief out of my pocket and covered the box round, and placed it on the chair where Wallis had been sitting—after leaving her in the custody of Radford—I then went to the shop door, and Phillips came to the door at the same time—I said to him, "Charley, I want you for the unlawful possession of counterfeit coin"—he made no answer—I took him into the shop, and into the back parlour, where Wallis was standing in custody of Radford—Phillips looked at Wallis, and he said, "Who brought that box here?" pointing to the table—the
box was not on the table then, but there was some needle work—a gown, I believe it was, lay on the table—Wallis did not make him any answer—I said to Phillips, "What box?"—he said, "That box" looking at the table—I did not put the gown on the table—Wallis had thrown her work carelessly on the table when I went in—it did not entirely cover the box—I took the box away, and left the gown there—I took Phillips into custody—I found this iron pot on the fire—the coals were flush with the top of the pot, and the pot was in a white heat—I found this life preserver under the counter in the shop.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is not this a glue pot? A. I believe it is part of a glue pot—I did not see any other part but this—I am not a cabinet maker—I have seen glue pots—I believe this is the inner part of the glue pot—there is no glue in this—I did not at that time know a woman named Carroll—I have known her since—I had not received any information from any one prior to my going to that shop—I went without information—I had been watching the place for some time—I received no information from Carroll—I saw Carroll after the prisoners were in custody, and before they were committed for trial—the shop faces Porter-street—there is a room behind the shop, which is partitioned off—there is a glazed door leading from the back parlour to the yard—there is a passage which communicates with the street, and with the back room—a person going down the passage might get into the back yard—it is not a public passage—there is a private door of the house which leads into the street—when I got into the shop, the door communicating between the passage and the street was not open—I am sure it was not—I saw it was shut—I did not try whether it could be easily opened or not—I saw this box on the table—it had no lid on it—there was nothing on the coin which I found in the box—it was all loose in the box, and nothing whatever covering it—when Phillips came in, I said I took him into custody for having possession of counterfeit coin—I said that in the shop before he got into the parlour—he did not make any reply—when he spoke about the box he was in the parlour—when he went in Wallis was crying—Phillips did not say, "What is the matter? what is all this about?" nothing of the kind—Wallis did not say, "They have taken me into custody, and found a box on the table with counterfeit coin in it"—nothing of the kind.
MR. BODKIN. Q. The door that comes from the passage into the street is a closed door, or private door for the lodgers? A. Yes—I saw a door in the back room which I thought was the door of a cupboard, but it opened into the passage—I tried it, and found it fast.
COURT. Q. How was it fastened? A. It was nailed up—there was no handle nor latch—there was also a door in the room leading into the yard, and that door was bolted inside—neither door could be entered without the leave of the person inside.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you go into the yard yourself? A. I did—I took the prisoners out that way—I did not know that Phillips had been robbed a few nights before.
JOHN RADFORD . (policeman, F 139.) I accompanied the last witness to the place, about 9 o'clock in the evening—I had not been there before—I saw Phillips come out of the shop, and then the last witness, and I went in—I went directly into the back parlour, and saw Wallis there, and a box containing this coin was on the table—there was nothing said, but Wallis was given into my custody—the box was wrapped in a handkerchief, and
put on a chair in one corner of the room—when we went into the room, Wallis appeared to be at needle work, and the needle work was put on the table—when Wallis was given into my charge, the last witness went into the shop, and in about two minutes he brought in Phillips—I did not hear anything that Phillips said in the shop, but when he came into the room he asked Wallis who brought in that box; pointing to the table—sergeant Thomas said, "What box?"—Phillip looked to the table, and said, "That box"—I saw this iron pot found in the fire—the prisoners were taken into custody.
Cross-examined. Q. Could you see Thomas take Phillips into custody? A. No; I was in the back parlour, I could not see from there into the shop—I could not hear him say anything—I cannot say how many yards the whole of the shop and parlour is—it is not a very large shop, nor a very large parlour—Wallis appeared to be sitting at the fire at her needle work when we went in, but she got up—the table was about the middle of the room—I should think nearer to the fire place than to the other part of the room—I went into the yard that night through that door, which is partly glazed and partly wood—the door was closed, but I opened it with my hand—I had only to turn the handle and go out—I did not see Thomas open it—the prisoners were conveyed to the station by the back door, and I was with Thomas when they were conveyed—I cannot tell who went first through the back door, we left Thomas to lock the doors up—the back door was not bolted when I went out, it might have been bolted before—I do not know a woman named Carroll—when Thomas brought Phillips into the back room, Wallis appeared to be affected, I did not see her crying—I did not hear her say, "The police have taken me about a box they found on the table"—I did not hear Phillips say anything.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you notice whether there was a bolt on the back door? A. There was a bolt—you cannot see all parts of the shop from the parlour—I did not notice whether the shutter was up at the glazed door which leads to the yard—if there were a shutter, it must have been outside—I saw the glass, I could not see through, it was dark.
COURT. to WILLIAM THOMAS. Q. Is there a shutter to the door leading from the parlour to the yard? A. Yes, but it was not up, I put it up afterwards—I had unbolted the door and gone out before the other officer did—I went out and made a general search.
WILLIAM HENRY CRAFT . I am the owner of that house, No. 1, Porter-street—I let the shop and parlour to the prisoners, I do not know exactly when—I think it is about eleven weeks from this time—they had been there about eleven weeks when this happened—they were keeping the shop and parlour on 19th Dec.—I let the house in tenements.
Cross-examined. Q. Is there a shutter to the glazed door that leads to the yard? A. Yes—you can lock the door and bolt it before the shutter is up—it was to Phillips I let the place, he has always paid the rent.
COURT. Q. How often have you seen Wallis there? A. Ten or twelve times in the daytime—I never saw her in the evening—when I have seen her, it has been in the capacity of a shopwoman.
WILLIAM WEBSTER. Here are 64 half crowns and 107 shillings in this box—it is all counterfeit—this pot may be the inner part of a glue pot—the outer part holds hot water—I never knew such a pot as this to be in the fire, but if this were in the fire, and made perfectly hot, it would answer the purpose of a crucible.
COURT. Q. Would all this coin go into that pot? A. Yes, but it would
take some little time to melt all this—ten or a dozen pieces might be put in and melted immediately—if the whole were put in, it might take a quarter of an hour to melt them all—these coins are in a fit state for immediate circulation.
PHILLIPS— GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Eighteen Months.
WALLIS— GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
LAWRENCE RYAN . (policeman, A 290). On the evening of 20th Dec. I met the prisoner in Endell-street, about a quarter past 8 o'clock—I laid hold of him, and he threw two paper parcels into the road—I do not know how he was carrying them—Brown gave the parcels to me—one contained six shillings, the other three half crowns, all counterfeit—I said to the prisoner, "What have you got to say?"—he said, "You have found no money on me."
CHARLES BROWN . (policeman, A 304). I was with the last witness—I saw him lay hold of the prisoner, and the prisoner threw two parcels into the street—Ryan called to me to pick them up—they were paper parcels—one contained six shillings, the other three half crowns.
Prisoner. Q. How far were you from the other officer? A. About five yards—I saw you jerk one parcel, and as I was coming back with that, you jerked the other—I could not get to take hold of your hand.
Prisoner's Defence. I never had the coin in my hand; I did not know what he took hold of me for; I never resisted, or said a word to him about it.
GUILTY .** Aged 40.— Confined One Year.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM TUGWELL . I am assistant to a chemist in Cheapside. On 29th Nov. the prisoner came, about 7 o'clock in the evening, for 1d. worth of strapping plaister—I gave it her, and she threw down the representation of a sixpence—I did not give her change, as I had seen these coins before—I took the piece up, and sent for a policeman, and gave it to him—the prisoner had no other money, and I gave her the plaister, as she had a cut on her right arm.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. You know it to be the same? A. Yes, I have had it ever since.
JOHN WEST JACKSON . I am assistant to Mr. Brooke, a chemist, in Fleet-street. On 8th Dec. the prisoner came, late in the evening, for 1d. worth of strapping—there was another female with her—I served the prisoner—she gave me a counterfeit sixpence—I did not give her change—I marked the coin, and gave it to the constable—the prisoner said she did not know it was bad.
HENRY FERRIS COLE . (City policeman, 337). On 8th Dec. I was called into Mr. Brooke's shop—I took the prisoner and the other woman—the prisoner was searched, and on her was found an empty purse and 1d. worth of strapping—the other woman was discharged.
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner had no other money on her? A. No.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both counterfeit, and from the same mould—they are smooth on one side—here is the head of the Queen on the other, but they have not the legend—there are farthings issued now with the head of the Queen on them—they are sold so many for a penny.
Cross-examined. Q. You would not call this an imitation of the Queen's coin? A. No, but they are just the things that might pass.
COURT. Q. Is it your opinion that there has been an impression on the other side, which has been rubbed off? A. I cannot tell whether there has been any more than there is now—they are made of brass.
NOT GUILTY .
MAIL— PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Four Months.
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE WATKINS . (City policeman, 660). On 22nd Dec. I saw the two prisoners together in Bishopsgate-street, loitering about—I saw them both go and look into the window of Mr. M'Donald's shop—Mail then went into the shop, and Nicholls walked backwards and forwards outside—Mail came out in about two minutes, and I went into the shop—Mrs. M'Donald showed me a crown piece—it was marked in my presence, and I left it with her—it was given me again last Tuesday, and I can recognize it as the same—when Mail came out of the shop, Nicholls crossed over to her, and they went away together—I lost sight of them—on Tuesday, 30th Dec., I saw the prisoners again, in Bishopsgate-street—I saw Mail alone, and I followed her, and Nicholls met her in the street in about two minutes—I at once took them into custody—I gave Mail to another officer, and Nicholls ran off—I am certain he is the same man I had seen with Mail before—I had seen them three times previously together—I ran after Nicholls, he was stopped by a gentleman, and I took him to the station—I found on him a knife, but no money—Mail was searched by the female searcher, who gave me this crown piece the next day at the Mansion House.
Nicholls. Q. Did you see me speak to this girl? A. Yes, but I do not know what you said—I had seen you together before.
LOUISA M'DONALD . My husband keeps a pastrycook's shop, in Bishopsgate-street. On the evening of 22nd Dec. Mail came and bought 6d. worth of biscuits—she gave me a crown piece—I put it in the bowl in the till, and gave her 4s. 6d. change—there was no other crown piece in the bowl—the constable came in, and my husband took the crown and marked it, and I gave it to the officer on 30th Dec.
GEORGE WATKINS . re-examined. No, he ran to get out of my way, and he got behind the busses—he ran at least a hundred yards—he ran directly I took Mail—he still ran when he was on the other side of the way, till he was stopped by some gentleman—I did not lose sight of him—I was close at his heels.
NICHOLLS— GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Six Months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Mr. Justice WILLES; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Justice Willes and the Third Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES STEEL . I am an inspector of letter carriers at the General Post-office. The prisoner was a letter carrier there, and had been so for about fourteen months—his general employment was that of a letter carrier, and in the evening he was engaged in the general business of the office at St. Martin's-le-Grand—on the evening of 18th Dec. he was employed in the office, stamping with the obliterating stamp, till 7 o'clock, in the newspaper office; after that, finishing at the Norwich-road at the Newspaper-office; and then going to the Inland-office, and carrying out the bags to the mails in the yard—about 20 minutes to 8 o'clock he went to the Inland-office, and finished there, ultimately carrying out the bags—some short time before 8 o'clock that evening, I sent for the prisoner into an inner office—Mr. Delany, another inspector, accompanied the prisoner into my office—I said to the prisoner, "A packet is missing from the facing table; do you know anything of it?"—after a little time, he said, "Yes, I do"—I then said, "Where is it?"—he put his hand into his left hand trowsers pocket, took out a packet, and gave it me—the facing table is a large table, upon which newspapers are put previous to their being put before the sorters—the prisoner was occasionally engaged at that table on that evening—it sometimes happens, in the course of the business, that packets come to the office among the newspapers—this (produced) is the packet the prisoner gave me—it is directed to Mr. Titchener, High-street, Chelmsford—I then said to him, "Have you got any more?"—he said, "No"—I then sent for Bingham, the officer, and desired him to search the prisoner—he proceeded to do so, and the prisoner produced another packet from his right hand pocket—this is it—it is directed to Mr. Wilcoxson, druggist, Nottingham—I saw Bingham then take a packet from his coat tail pocket, addressed to Mr. Birch, superintendent of police, Lodden, near Norwich—if packages of that kind had been posted at Upper Berkeley-street or Bishopsgate-street at half past 5 o'clock in the evening, they would arrive at the General Post-office in time to be dispatched by that night's mail into the country—the prisoner was given into custody—his wages were 1l. a week—he had been absent on leave for two weeks, and had returned on the Monday previous—if any wages were due to him, he would have received them upon going to the proper officer.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Is 1l. a week the amount usually paid to letter carriers, or was he paid anything extra? A. No, nothing extra—letter carriers are liable to be called upon to perform the duties of stamping and sorting, without any extra pay—the packages ought to be stamped at the district office, but they are stamped after they come to the General office—in due course they ought to go into the Inland-office, but occasionally they get mixed with newspapers—they are then put aside, and carried
down to the Inland-office, and put with the others—when they come mixed with newspapers, they are put on a large table, and the facer (the person who is put there to take papers round to the sorters) would put them in a basket to be taken to the Inland-office—the prisoner was occasionally on duty as a facer; that night he was stamping—the stampers are in the same room with the sorters and facers, but at a different table.
MR. BODKIN. Q. This was an accidental circumstance, which frequently arises, of packets of this sort being included with newspapers? A. Yes—these are considered letters—the facer's duty would be to put into a basket those which did not belong to the newspaper department—the prisoner was employed in the general business of the Facing-office.
HENRY BINGHAM . I am a police officer attached to the Post-office. I was fetched to Mr. Steel's room about 5 minutes to 8 o'clock on Thursday evening, 18th, and was ordered by him to search the prisoner—as I was in the act of doing so, he took from his right hand trowsers pocket this packet directed to Nottingham, and gave it to me, saying, "Here is another"—I searched him further, and from his coat tail pocket I took this packet, directed to Norwich—I asked him how he came to take these packets—he said, "I took them for money, because I have not received any wages for the last three weeks"—I found on him 12s. 6d. in silver, and 2d. in copper, in a purse in his pocket.
FREDERICK COX . I am an optician in Newgate-street. On 18th Dec. I made up this packet, addressed to Mr. Titchener, of Chelmsford—it contains a pair of spectacles—I put a stamp on it, and either posted it myself, or sent it to the post.
ROBERT READ . I am assistant to Mr. Parsons, a chemist, of St. Maryaxe. On 18th Dec. I made up this packet, addressed to Mr. Wilcoxon, Nottingham: it contains a sample of castor oil in a small bottle—I gave it to Sparkes to post.
Cross-examined. Q. What do you mean by "posting" it? A. I dropped it into the letter box; I think it is at No. 54, Bishopsgate-street—it is a grocer's, named Bridges—I posted another letter at the same time; that had a 10d. stamp.
---- M'CRAY. I am assistant to Messrs. Bell, chemists and druggists, of Oxford-street. On 17th Dec. I made up this packet, addressed to Mr. Buck, of Norwich—it contains a quarter of a pound of lozenges—I gave it that same day to Edward Buck.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you put it into the letter box? A. No, it was too large to go into the box, and I took it inside, and gave it to the post-master.
JAMES STEEL . re-examined. This packet bears the Inland-office stamp—that shows that it arrived that day at the General Post Office—the others do not bear that stamp, I presume they must have been taken before they went to the Inland-office—they do not bear the stamps of the district offices—they ought to do so—they appear to have been treated as newspapers, which are not stamped.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Six Tears Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Baron Martin.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
WALTER ROBERTSON SCULTHORPE . I am one of the deputy comptrollers of the Post-office. A Mr. Braden keeps the Post-office receiving house at Smithfield-bars—on 12th Dec. in consequence of something that had transpired in that district, I made up a test letter—I placed in it a half sovereign and a sixpence, which I marked, and three postage stamps, which I also marked—I placed them in an envelope, with a medallion head upon it—I also put a marked postage stamp on the letter, and directed it to a fictitious address, "Thomas Cadman, mate on board H. M. S. Lightning, Portsmouth; if sailed, to be sent to Rio Janeiro"—I fastened the letter with adhesive gum, and gave it to Mr. Cole, with directions what to do with it—if that letter had been posted at half past 11 o'clock on the following day, it ought to have arrived at the General Post-office at half past 12—I was at the Post-office on the 13th, when the half past 12 o'clock collection came from Smithfield-bars; they are accompanied by a letter bill, stating the number of letters—this is the bill that came; thirty-two letters are mentioned—the letter I had given to Cole was not among them; thirty-two letters did arrive—I afterwards proceeded to Mr. Braden's with Cole and Smee—the prisoner was not there, he had gone to his dinner—I sent Cole for him, and he shortly returned with him—Cole said to me, in the prisoner's presence, "I have found your stamps, Sir, in his plate"—he produced these four stamps, which are the same that I had put in and on the letter on the previous day—I said to the prisoner, "These are my stamps, where did you get them from?"—he said, "I found them on the floor when I was sweeping the shop"—I asked him at what time—he said, "At 8 o'clock this morning "—I told him the letter was not posted till half past 11 o'clock, and desired the officer to search him—Mr. Cole had previously produced twenty-six sovereigns—I saw Smee take some money from him—I cannot say how much, but there was some silver and gold, and I identified amongst it the half sovereign and the sixpence that I had placed in the letter.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. I believe the prisoner was not in the employ of the Post-office? A. No, he was not; he was a porter to Mr. Braden—I know this half sovereign by four marks on it.
WELCOME COLE . I am an inspector of letter carriers at the General Post-office. On 12th Dec. Mr. Sculthorpe gave me a letter to post—I kept it in my possession till 25 minutes to 12 o'clock on the 13th, when I posted it at Mr. Braden's, at Smithfield-bars, by dropping it into the letter box—Mr. Braden keeps a receiving house—I returned to the Post-office, and was there when the 12 o'clock collection came from Smithfield-bars—I received the bag from the carrier, and took it to Mr. Sculthorpe—after it had been opened I went to Mr. Braden's, with Mr. Sculthorpe and Smee—the prisoner had gone to his dinner—I went to No. 9, Greenhill's-rents, which is about 100 yards off, and found him in the kitchen, seated by a table with a cloth on it, and a plate and knife and fork, and he was smoking a pipe; there was a fire about two yards from him on his right—after questioning him as to his name, I noticed that there were five postage stamps in the plate before him—I examined them, and recognized three of them as the stamps that had been enclosed in the letter, and one that had been placed outside it; it had been torn from the letter, and part of the letter was
attached to it—the fifth had evidently been taken off a letter before it reached the General Post-office, because it had not been obliterated, nor had the other—I told the prisoner he must go with me to his master's—he was very anxious to get his hands into his trowsers pocket—I told him not to do so, and as he persisted, I put my hand into his right hand trowsers pocket, and found 26l. in gold, all loose—he told me he had found the stamps in the shop, when he was sweeping it up, in the morning—I was present when he was searched by Smee at the Post-office—I saw a leather bag taken from his pocket, and in that some paper, which contained silver and gold, and from that I saw the half sovereign and sixpence taken, which I also identified—I had seen them marked, and placed in the letter.
Cross-examined. Q. Did the prisoner say bow he had obtained the twenty-six sovereigns? A. Yes, he said he had saved them, and had been a long time doing so.
WILLIAM SMEE . I am a constable attached to the Post-office. On 13th Dec., I searched the prisoner at Mr. Braden's receiving office, in the presence of Mr. Sculthorpe, and Mr. Cole—I found in his trowsers pocket, a canvas bag with 11s. in silver, and a half sovereign wrapped up in a piece of paper—Mr. Sculthorpe identified the half sovereign, and a sixpence—he said, "Why, this is my money"—the prisoner said, "No, it is not, it is mine"—I then took him into custody—I found a key in his pocket which unlocked a box at his lodging, and in that box I found five other postage stamps, which had been on letters; portions of letters were attached to them, and they are not obliterated.
WILLIAM LEADER . I am in the employment of Mr. Braden, a grocer, of Smithfield-bars; he keeps a Post-office receiving house. I assist him in the business; the prisoner was his porter, and occasionally assisted in the business—on 13th Dec., the prisoner took the letters out of the box for the 12 o'clock collection—I made out the bill—there were thirty-two letters—he called out the number to me, and I put it down—he stamped the letters.
Cross-examined. Q. How long has he been in Mr. Braden's employment? A. About eighteen months—he was a general porter, going out with goods, and so on—he tied the letters up on this occasion; sometimes I did it—Mr. Braden had him from Mr. Urry, a grocer—I went there to inquire his chaacter, and Mr. Braden took him from my representation—in March last he lent me 10l.—I saw that he had got money in his pocket; he was showing it off, and I said to him, "You will lose that money some day; you had better let me take care of it for you; why not put it in the bank?"—he said, "I have a bank in the country, I cannot do it here"—I said, "You had better let me do it for you;" and he gave it me—I had another 5l. afterwards—it was merely an act of kindness on my part—I gave it all back to him four months ago—his wages were 15s. a week.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
218. JACOB ISRAEL was indicted for a rape upon Julia Cohen. (The prosecutrix in this case (seventeen years of age) was an idiot, and incapable of being examined. MR. SLEIGH., for the prosecution, called Dr. Winslow, and two other medical gentlemen, who had examined her recently (some months after the commission of the alleged offence), and they expressed their opinion that she was perfectly imbecile, and incapable of expressing any assent or dissent to the act in question. MR. RIBTON., for the prisoner, submitted that as no proof was offered as to her condition at the time of the alleged offence,
there was no case for the Jury. MR. JUSTICE WILLES. was of opinion, that it would be for the Jury to come to the conclusion, upon the whole of the evidence, whether or no she was incapable of consenting to the act, and if she was, whether the prisoner (who was her cousin, and lived in the same house) was in a position to know and did know her to be so incapable; but as the case was a peculiar one, the point should be reserved, if necessary.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Baron Martin.
MESSRS. GIFFARD. and BAYLEY. conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN WARREN . I am the wife of Samuel Warren, who keeps the Salisbury Arms, Bear-street, Leicester-square. On Friday, 5th Dec., between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came to the bar, and ordered a bottle of rum and a bottle of gin—he had an apron on, and no coat—I served him with a bottle of gin, and got a man who was stopping with us, to fill a bottle of rum—after I had filled a bottle with the ordinary gin, I said, "We have a better quality, sir, if you prefer it," giving him a drop in a glass—he said, "That is very good; I prefer the best, and don't mind the price"—I filled a second bottle of the best, and laid both bottles on the counter—they came to 5s.—I said I would refund 4d. on the two bottles when they were returned—he laid what appeared to me to be a 5l. Bank of England note on the counter—I took it up and looked at it, and being a dusky day I thought it a very good one—I asked him where he brought it from—he said, from Mr. Gordon, Cecil-court—I said, "Are you Mr. Gordon?"—he said, "No, but I will put Mr. Gordon's name on with pleasure"—I fetched pen and ink, and he wrote on it, "C. Gordon, Cecil-court"—this is the note (produced)—Cecil-court is quite convenient to our house—I took the note, and put it in my pocket, gave the prisoner 4l. 15s. change, and thanked him, and he left—I paid the note away, I think, on the 10th, to our brewer's collector; it came back on the following Tuesday, as a forgery—I knew that there was a Mr. Gordon living in Cecil-court; I did not know him, but I had heard customers speak of him—On 17th Dec., the prisoner came again, and asked for a bottle of the best gin—I took an empty bottle in my hand, and went into the parlour and spoke to nay husband—he is an invalid—the prisoner could not hear what I said to my husband—I came back to the bar, put the bottle of gin in paper, and laid it on the counter—the prisoner laid down a 5l. Bank of England note, apparently, to me—I took it up, and looked at it, and said, "Is this your own note?"—he said, "No, the gentleman's name and address is on it"—I said, "Yes, but it does not look to me nice"—I took it into the parlour, and spoke to my husband, and brought it back, and said to the prisoner, "They won't give me change for it, they don't think it a right one"—he said, "Give it to me, if it is a bad one I will take it back to the person"—I said, "No, I shall detain the note until you fetch the gentleman from Princes-street, who owns it"—my husband went round and came in at the front door, and left the house with the prisoner—I said to him, "Go with this gentleman to Princes-street, and fetch the gentleman that owns this note;" and I said privately to my husband, "Give him into custody, that is the person that brought the other note"—the prisoner looked very pale, but said nothing; he went quietly with my husband—I kept the note in my hand—I marked it afterwards at the station—this is it (produced)—I gave it to Ryan the constable when he came back with my husband and the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were you alone serving in the bar when he first came? A. There was a person there who affected to be a friend of ours; he was assisting in the business—he saw the man, not so well as I did—he was not standing there all the time; he was working about—he filled the bottle of rum for me—I do not think he was there when I gave the change—I asked that man to go and identify the prisoner—he was not able to do so—my husband was very ill in bed that day—there was no one in the bar but me and this man—the prisoner was there from seven to ten minutes, I should say, on that occasion—I did not serve any other customer during that time; I do not know whether the man did—that man is not here to-day; I understand he is in prison somewhere for a similar thing, forging a 10l. note—he was not engaged as a servant—he came to us as a friend, and asked for a home—my husband first saw him on the annoyance jury seven or eight years ago; that was all the acquaintance we had with him, and during the little time he was with us we were robbed—it was a dusky day; I had no gas—on the 17th the prisoner came about 7 o'clock in the evening—when I asked my husband to go with him to Prince's-street, my husband was standing outside the front door—he had come round from the parlour—I had spoken to him previously, and told him what to do—he is not here—he did not leave the prisoner, and go round the bar for his hat—he had his hat on, I think; I will not swear that he had; I will swear that he did not leave the prisoner and go for it—they walked out of the shop together, and I followed them as far as I could—I did not see them meet the policeman—when I asked him if the 5l. note was his, he said, "No," the gentleman's name and address was on it—he afterwards said a gentleman gave it him in Prince's-street—the name of "George Butcher, 24, Norton-street," is on the note—he did not say that the gentleman had asked him to get change for it—I did not think it was a good one; I had taken so much notice of the 10l. note.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Are you certain or not that the prisoner is the man who came on the 5th? A. I am certain he is the man; I recognized him as soon as he entered my door the second time—I had never seen him before the 5th to my knowledge.
LAWRENCE RYAN . (police sergeant, A). On the morning of 17th Dec. I was on duty in Bear-street, Leicester-square—I met the prisoner and Mr. Warren a few yards from the Salisbury Arms—Mr. Warren said, "This man has been to my shop with a 5l. note, which I think is a forgery"—I asked the prisoner what he had got to say to the charge—he said he had received it from a gentleman, a friend, at the corner of the street—I took him back to the shop, and Mrs. Warren said, "This is the man that gave me the forged 10l. note on the 5th"—I asked him what he had got to say to that—he said, "You want to know too much"—Mrs. Warren handed me the 5l. note, and I marked it—this is it.
Cross-examined. Q. Mr. Warren heard all the conversation? A. Yes—it was when I went back to the shop that Mrs. Warren said, "This is the man that passed the 10l. note"—I had not before that said anything to Mr. Warren about the 10l. note—I am sure of that—I had heard of the 10l. note from Mr. Warren, but not on that occasion—I did not say, "This must be the man that passed the 10l. note also"—I swear that—Mr. Warren was present when the prisoner said "You want to know too much"—I do not know whether he heard him; he might have done so—Mrs. Warren was inside the bar—the inspector asked the prisoner his name and address at the station—he gave it—I found it to be correct—I cannot
say what he is—he lived in a back attic—I saw his wife there—he gave me the address of his master, Mr. Brett, High-street, Poplar, a shoemaker—I went there—I found he had left six months ago, and since then, his master had lost sight of him; he knew nothing against him.
MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you know whether Mr. Warren is ill or well? A. He is not well, and he is not here in consequence of that.
No person of the name of Butcher lives there—I do not know the prisoner—I never sent him with a 5l. note to change.
GUILTY . Aged 32.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 28.— Six Years Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald.; Mr.RECORDER.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
(James Keeting, a warehouseman, Rowland Taylor, Mr. Baron, a warehouseman, and Thomas Lawes, warehouseman, gave the prisoner a good character.)
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT CURTIS DENHAM . I am a seaman, and lodge at No. 8, Well-street, Whitechapel. On Friday afternoon, 26th Dec., I was in the Globe public house with Lynch, a companion of mine—when we came out we saw some musicians playing, and, as far as I saw, one of the musicians had some artificial flowers in his hat—there was a crowd, and the prisoner was one in the crowd—very shortly afterwards I observed that Lynch had some artificial flowers in his hand—they appeared to me to be like the flowers in the hat—I did not see how he got them; I suppose he took them from the hat—some words took place between the musicians and Lynch about those flowers, and some blows were exchanged between them—the police came and separated Lynch and the musicians—after that, I was going away with Lynch, my companion—we walked right down a street and turned a corner, and about ten yards from the corner I heard a noise behind me—I turned, and saw about a dozen Germans running after us—they were the musicians—about half a dozen of them came to me—the prisoner was one of those that came up—I saw one of them, I cannot say which, with a knife in his hand, and I received a stab in the left side of the neck—I had turned round and exchanged some blows with about half a dozen who came up—before
I struck any blow I was struck by some of them—I do not know which way I received the blow in the neck, whether the man was before me or behind me—if I was positive which way I got it, I could tell who was the man that gave it me—I believe the prisoner to be the man—I lost blood—I went to an apothecary's, and was afterwards taken to the London Hospital—I remained there some time from the effects of the wound.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Can you say where the man was who gave the wound? A. No—there might have been half a dozen Germans round me—Lynch was not with me, he was in the middle of the street—there were other persons besides the Germans—the row was not going on more than ten minutes—the persons were following me, but they stopped when I stopped—I do not know whether Lynch is a fighting man; I never saw him fight—I do not know that he killed a man in America, only from what the paper says—I heard a report; other persons read the papers that come from America—I am an American—Lynch and I were together at the Globe—I only know that I saw the flowers in Lynch's hand, and the one who had had them in his hat had not one—the prisoner was one of the crowd—I do not know whether he played music or not—I do not think the musicians kept on playing—I suppose those who followed me were all musicians—it was about half past 12 o'clock in the day—I do not know where Lynch lives at present—I had been at one place where he had lived, right across from the Globe public house, but I think there had been some disturbance, and he had left there—he told me he had left there—I do not know the name of the street where the Globe is—Lynch had been lodging in that place about three weeks—I saw a woman living there—I do not know where Lynch is now—I have not seen him since that night—he was taken up that night, but he was freed again—I do not think he is a seaman—the musicians appeared to me to be all foreigners.
COURT. Q. The prisoner was one of the crowd? A. Yes—the person who followed me with something in his hand was one of the musicians; I mean they were with those who were playing—about six of the musicians came to me and six to Lynch—I saw about six come to me.
HENRY CLARK . I am a carver and gilder; I live in Pleasant-row, Whitechapel. I was in Mary Ann street that day, and I saw some fighting between some Germans and two sailors—the prisoner was one of the crowd I am sure—I saw two policemen come up, and they sent the Germans one way, and the sailors the other—Denham had a companion with him, Lynch—I saw a number of Germans follow them; the prisoner was the first—they went down Mary Ann street, and they caught the prosecutor against the wall, and half a dozen pitched into him—the prisoner was one amongst the half dozen—he had a knife in his hand, and made an attempt to dig it into the prosecutor, and it went into the wall—another stab went into his neck—the prisoner immediately ran away—I am positive the prisoner is the man that stabbed him; he ran away, and threw the knife away, and took it up again and gave it to me, and gave me a halfpenny at the same time—I gave the knife to the policeman.
Cross-examined. Q. Where were you? A. I was waiting to hear the musicians playing—I saw Lynch take the flowers from a shiny cap; that was the commencement of it—Lynch had nothing in his hand—a number of persons came up, men, and women, and boys—while this row was going on by the wall there were about half a dozen Germans, and a great many persons round—I was on the kerb, and they were against the wall—Lynch and the prosecutor were close together—when the musicians came up, they got away—the men did the best they could with their fists—Denham
fought too—half a dozen rushed on him altogether, and the prisoner stabbed him—Denham was standing with his back to the wall, and doing the best he could against the Germans, and the prisoner went up and stabbed him—he went up, facing him—Mr. Denham's face was towards him—plenty of people could see this as well as me—there were none between me and Mr. Denham, only the man that stabbed him—the Germans that were fighting with him were there, not other persons—the prisoner was one of the six that were fighting with him—I think the Germans that followed him were sugar bakers—I do not know whether they were the musicians—I do not know whether the music continued—the noise was too much for the music—I was with a person; we were standing to hear the music—I live at No. 6, Pleasant-row; that is near the Globe—M'Carthy was with me—Lynch has not been living in the house where I live—the prisoner gave me a half-penny, and he ran to the Magpie and Stump, where he was taken in custody—he had got from the mob, and got round a corner—I ran after him—I had never seen him before, nor the prosecutor.
THOMAS M'CARTHY . I live at No. 30, Philip-street, St. George's. I work at the coopering business—on 26th Dec. I was looking at the fight—I saw the row commence, and went over to it—I saw the prisoner and others fighting with sailors—the police parted them, and sent the Germans one way, and the seamen another—after that the two sailors walked quick, and a lot of Germans followed them—I saw the prisoner go out in the road, and call to the rest, and all the rest came running down Mary Ann street, and pitched into the two sailors—they got the prosecutor up against the wall, and five or six were beating him—the prisoner had a knife, he made one attempt to stab him—the prosecutor moved his head, and it stuck in the wall—he made a second attempt, and it went into his neck—I am sure the prisoner is the man.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he come right in front of him? A. On the side of the prosecutor—the prosecutor's back was to the wall—he was fighting with the Germans—I do not know whether he saw the prisoner, but he moved his head on one side, and the knife stuck in the wall—I was standing on the kerb—the last witness was there—there were a couple more boys and some men—they were standing as close as I was—some of them are outside—I was standing close to the Germans who were fighting—Lynch was out in the road, and the other Germans were out in the road beating him—I had never seen the prisoner before—I have not talked over this matter with the last witness, only when we were down at Arbour-square—I have spoken to him since about it—I have not told him what I recollected, and he has not told me what he recollected—we only just talked about it—we never talked about the row—I never said a word about what I saw—I first told it to the policeman—I told my father and mother, but I have never talked to Clark—I have just seen him in passing by—I live in Philip-street—Lynch has not lived in that house with me—I cannot say where he has been lodging—I saw him at the police-court—I have not seen him since that day—I work with my father as a cooper—he works in Old Street—I work there under him.
RACHEL MARVELL . I live at No. 11, Elizabeth-street, St. George's. On 26th Dec., I was standing at my door, and saw a crowd going on toward Mary Ann street—there were no musicians amongst them—the band of music stopped at the Globe public-house—the prisoner is one that followed the prosecutor—they stopped at the corner of Mary Ann street—I saw the prisoner make an aim—I did not see anything in his hand—it went in the wall—he then made a second aim—I put my arm round the prosecutor's neck, and felt
blood come on my arm—I said that he was stabbed—I am sure the prisoner is the man—I had seen the prosecutor before, and another young man—the prisoner stopped about two minutes—a policeman came up and took the prosecutor's collar, and the prisoner ran away as hard as he could, and went into No. 11 or 12, Sebbon-street—I stopped and saw him come out with several Germans, and go to the Magpie and Stump—I saw the prisoner first—I did not see anything in his hand, it was done so momentarily.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. An unfortunate girl—I had seen the prosecutor before—I had stopped with a shipmate of his, but not now; not with Lynch—this was about half past 12 o'clock—it took place first at the Globe, and then it began again at the top of Mary Ann street—the prosecutor was at the top of Mary Ann street—there were some Germans and others fighting—the prosecutor was not fighting with any one—I could see the blows distinctly, but I saw no knife—the policeman and the persons said, "Lynch has done it"—Lynch was in the road, down on the ground—the prisoner waited about two minutes—the policeman came and took the collar from the prosecutor's neck—when the policeman came, the prisoner ran away down the back turnings, and came back to Sebbon-street—he came out again, and I spoke to him—the prisoner ran away by himself—there was no one at all running with him—I watched him round the corner, and watched him into a house in Sebbon-street—there was no one with him at all—he came out of the house with several Germans, and went into the Magpie and Stump—I might be about two yards from him—I put my arm round the prosecutor's neck because I wanted to bring him away—my house is just by.
HUGH GILBERT . I live at No. 8, King David fort. On 26th Dec., I was in Mary Ann street—I saw the prisoner fetch his hand away from the prosecutor's neck with a knife in his hand—I am sure he is the man—he then shoved his hand behind him under his coat, and the blade came out under the tail—I saw the knife myself, and there was blood on it—there were so many of them that I could not see for a moment or two what became of the prisoner, but presently he came out, and my friend watched him while I went to the station—the persons who were about seemed to me to be all foreigners, but there were plenty of women screaming out "Murder!"
Cross-examined. Q. Where were you standing? A. At the bottom of the street—the prosecutor was standing right in the middle of the road at the time I saw the prisoner draw the knife from his neck—it is a very narrow street—I saw the last witness—I never saw her before to my knowledge—I was standing near her—the first thing I saw was the prisoner drawing the knife away, and he put it behind him—immediately afterwards he got in the crowd, and then came out—I was there about ten minutes before the police came up—there were two policemen came and took the man that was stabbed—I should say it was a quarter of an hour before the police came up—I saw the prisoner come out of the crowd in about a minute, and then he walked along with the others, straight up the street—I cannot say whether he turned into another street—I went for the police—when I came back he was in the Magpie and Stump—I saw these boys there (Clark and M'Carthy)—they were round the mob, and when it was over, they said, "I see him do it," and I said, "I saw him do it"—I saw Marvel standing there.
were on duty on the day in question; I saw the prisoner and several others fighting together—I sent the prisoner and several others away—I did not see them return—shortly afterwards as I was standing at the corner of the Globe public house, I saw seven or eight persons rush by me, after the prosecutor—I could not say whether the prisoner was one that I saw following him—the prosecutor was bleeding very much when I saw him afterwards in the hands of the other officer—several persons standing there, said, "That was the man"—that was Lynch—several said that—I believe they were foreigners—I took Lynch, and he was afterwards discharged—I received some information, and went to the Magpie and Stump; the boys Clark and M'Carthy were at the door—the last witness had spoken to me—my attention was pointed to the prisoner, and I took him—I told him he was charged with stabbing a man in the neck—he said, "I did it in my own defence"—he said that in pretty good English, so that I could understand it—I could not be mistaken in what he said—one of the boys gave me this knife; I believe it was Clark—the prisoner desired to see the knife—I showed it him, and he said, "It is not my knife; there is no blood on it."
Cross-examined. Q. Did he speak English pretty well? A. Yes; so that I could understand it—he said, "I did it in my own defence"—that was in broken English, but plain enough for me to understand it well—I believe he has been in England two or three years.
ROBERT DEBENHAM . I am house surgeon at the London Hospital. The prosecutor was brought there on 26th Dec.—he had a wound at the back part of the left side of his neck—it was an inch and a half long—it had passed downwards and forwards to the depth of nearly three inches—it was a punctured wound—it might have been done with this knife—the wound was not serious—had it gone deeper than it did, it might have been fatal—it is nearly well now.
Cross-examined. Q. Can you judge how it was done? A. I should say the prisoner might have been standing on his left side—this was a thrust—it might have been under-handed—the wound came from the back part, and rather on one side—I should fancy the prisoner was on the left hand side of him. Witnesses for the Defence.
JOHANN FOOTS . (through an interpreter). I live at No. 31, Grove-street. I was coming from home on the day this took place—I heard the music, and went there—I saw the prosecutor and Lynch—I saw the musicians playing; Lynch took hold of some flowers on a man's cap, and he scolded him for doing so—another sugar baker, and another sailor made a kick at him; and one sailor gave a blow to a sugar baker, and he bled—the police came up and separated them—I saw fighting going on when they got up the street—I saw one man stand close to my side with a hat on, and a black coat, and he had a knife in his hand; and when the fighting began, he jumped in, and gave a stab with the knife—he had a black dress coat, and black trowsers—I cannot say who he stabbed—he had the knife in his hand, and struck with it—it was not the prisoner—I did not see the prisoner at the time this was going on.
Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. Are you a friend of the prisoner's? A. No; I do not know the man—I listened to the music; I went towards it—I saw the prosecutor after he was stabbed—I looked at the man's face, but I did not know him—he was a tall thin man, and had a fresh colour; he was about my size—I cannot say whether he was an Englishman or a foreigner—I went to the Magistrate's, but was not examined—I did
not know that I had to say there that the prisoner was not the man—I saw the man that was stabbed, for five or six minutes—I stood very close to him—my attention was not called to the other man till I saw him jump in the crowd—I did not hear any persons, when the police came up, point to Lynch, and say, "That is the man"—I was not the person that called out, "That is the man," pointing to Lynch—I have not been a fellow workman of the prisoner's—I am a tailor.
COURT. Q. How was the prisoner dressed? A. I cannot say at all; I only saw him at the public house, where the policeman came to separate them—I did not look exactly at his dress—I did not see where the man went who stabbed somebody—I looked for him when the policeman came, but I could not find him any more—I missed him directly—I only saw that he struck with the knife—I saw that the man who stabbed had a hat on. COURT. to WILLIAM HARROLD PEARCE. Q. How was the prisoner dressed? A. As he is now, in a dark coat, and a glazed cap.
JOHN ROYAN . (through an interpreter.) I am a sugar baker. I heard some music near the Globe—I know the prisoner—he was walking at my side—we walked through Cable-street, to another street; I do not know the name of it—I saw when the sailor was stabbed; and a little fellow who was the sailor's comrade, wanted to run away, and some persons laid hold of him—when the sailor was stabbed, the prisoner was still at my side, standing still—I remember the police separating the sailors and the musicians—I stood not very close by them at the Globe—when the sailors ran fast away, the prisoner and I walked slowly behind them, with the music—the prisoner was by my side when the sailor was stabbed—it was after that that Lynch ran away—the prisoner could not be the person who stabbed the sailor, he was too far away—we were about twenty steps off—after the prosecutor was stabbed, Lynch went to run away.
Cross-examined. Q. What did you then do? A. We went on with the musicians to the public house, till the policeman came—I stopped with him two or three minutes, till they fetched him away—I never lost sight of the prisoner from the time I was first near the Globe, till he was taken; I was with him all the time—when the sailor was stabbed, the prisoner was by my side—I did not see the man who stabbed—I did not see it; I was not there present—I know the prisoner was not the man who stabbed, because he was standing with me—he stood close by me—I was not one of the men who was with the band—I came towards them—there was a row before the man was stabbed, and I ran out—the crowd was not close to him—they were about twenty steps from us—I did not hear any persons call out that Lynch was the man—I did not point out the man—I did not see the stabbing—I have known the prisoner a quarter of a year.
HENRICH KLEIS . (through the interpreter). I am a sugar baker. I saw the musicians—I saw the Germans follow the prosecutor and his companions from the Globe—the prisoner was not one who followed them—the music continued; I remained with it—I saw the prisoner behind; he was not in front with them—I did not see when the sailor was stabbed—I saw him when he was bleeding—I did not before that hear a cry that the man was stabbed—from the time that I saw the Germans following the prosecutor, I kept sight of the prisoner—I saw him during that time—he was always with the musicians—he could not have been the person who stabbed the prosecutor—I saw the last witness there—he was with the prisoner; we were all together—I went afterwards into the Magpie and Stump—I was there when the policeman came.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you go up when you saw the man stabbed? A. Yes, we went a little towards aim when we saw the police and others stand round him—I did not go before the Magistrate—I was outside, but was not called in—I do not know the witness Rachel Marvell, who has been called here—I have never seen her, or said anything to her about this case—I have not threatened her if she came here to give evidence against the prisoner.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you help to stop the prosecutor's companion, Lynch? A. No—I did not see the last witness do so.
COURT. Q. Where did you remain with the musicians when the prosecutor went away? A. The musicians did not go on playing, and they went on towards Cable-street—I do not know whether that is where the second row took place—I saw the prosecutor bleeding in a street; I do not know the name of it—that was close by the Globe public house—I first came to them when the sailors were turned out of the public house—one sailor came out, and had a knife in his hand—one sailor ran away with the knife in his hand when the others ran after the sailors—when the man was stabbed I stood down at the corner—when it was said there was one stabbed I ran to the court—I heard some one was stabbed—I did not go away from just by the public house till I heard that the man was stabbed—the prisoner remained with me all that time, and the last witness was there as well—the music remained playing all that time—I have known the prisoner half a year.
ADAM MOSELLE . I am a sugar baker. I was in the street when this was going on—I took part in stopping Lynch when he ran—I did not see the prisoner during that time, not at all during the row—I was not very near the prosecutor, who was stabbed—I was about forty steps from him—I know the prisoner—I work in the same house with him—I never saw him carry a knife like this knife produced—he never carried a knife as long as I have known him.
COURT. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. I came from the same village—he came to England before me—I have been here about three years.
JOHANN MEYERS . (through an interpreter). I am a sugar baker. I was outside the Globe when this occurred—I was one who followed the prosecutor and his companions after the police had separated them—I was attacked by Lynch—he had a strap round his hand, and something with a ball on it, such as a life preserver—I was knocked down—I did not see the prosecutor stabbed—I saw him bleeding soon after—I did not see the prosecutor at all after the police had separated them at the Globe—I think I should have seen him if he had been there—I know the prisoner, he has worked in the house with me for two years—I never saw him carry a knife.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you not yourself at the Globe, and were you not tipsy? A. No—I was not at all in liquor—I do not know Rachel Marvell—I have never seen her or spoken to her—I did not say anything to her on Monday last as she stood near her house—I did not threaten her, that if she came to speak against the prisoner I would do for her—I have never seen the girl to my knowledge—if I had said it, it is not possible that I could have forgotten it—I was not in company with the other witness when I made those threats.
MR. PLATT. to RACHEL MARVELL. Q. On Monday last did Meyers and Kleis say anything to you when you were standing at your house, and were ready to go out? A. Yes; at the other corner there were six or seven men,
and these two came to me; one of them asked if I was going to say anything about the Germans, I said I did not want to go up, but I was forced to go—he said, "If you do, I will do for you"—he spoke good English.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How long have you known the prosecutor? A. I have nothing to do with him—I stopped with a shipmate of his some time ago, and the prosecutor came to see him once—after seeing him on one occasion with a shipmate I put my arm round his neck—he has not been in the habit of coming to my house—I have not been in the habit of going anywhere with him—the other time that I saw him was about a month ago—I was with his shipmate, and they met together, and drank a glass of ale—the time he was stabbed was the second time I saw him—I put my arm round his neck; I oftentimes do that—I knew him by seeing him—I wanted him to come to my house, which is opposite—I had seen the two Germans before I saw them with the band of music, and one of them had his nose bleeding—I never saw them from that time till last Monday.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Eighteen Months.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, January 7th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. EAGLETON.; and MICHAEL PRENDERGAST., Esq.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq., and the Eighth Jury.
JOHN ARTHUR . I am a cheesemonger, of Sidney-street, Commercial-road. On 31st Dec. the prisoner came, and addressed herself to my brother—I was in the parlour—I came out, and she asked me for half a pound of butter—my brother served her, and he brought me a 5s. piece—I said that it was bad, in the prisoner's presence—the prisoner said, "Is it a bad one?"—I said, "Yes," and asked her where she lived—she said, "John-street, Lime-house-fields "—I said that it was not very likely she would bring a plate for half a pound of butter from there, and I should stop her—it was about 12 o'clock in the day—she pulled out half a crown, but I said that I would not take it till a policeman came—at the station the inspector asked her where she lived, and she said that she declined giving her address—the half pound of butter would come to 7d.—this is the crown (produced).
Prisoner. Q. Did not I tell you that I had received the 5s. piece and half crown of Mr. Harriss, and if you would be kind enough to cut it in half, I could get it changed? A. You said no such thing.
JAMES ARTHUR . I was in the shop, and the prisoner gave me the 5s. piece—she did not tell me that she had received three half crowns from Mr. Harriss, or that if the crown was cut in two, and half given to her, she could get another for it—our shop is quite a mile from John-street.
Prisoner. I have lived there five years; I asked the Magistrate if he would grant me a policeman to go there in private clothes, as I did not like to be known. Witness. I inquired at the shops, but could hear nothing about her—it is a street in which the houses are let out in lodgings; they
are numbered—I asked her the number at the station, and she would not tell me.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Six Months.
MR. SLEIGH. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE MIDDLEBROOK . I live at No. 9, United-buildings, Lisson-street, Marylebone. On 8th Nov. I went to Mr. Empson's public house, in Manning-street, and received 19s. 6d. in silver, which I put into my pocket at the bar—my wife was with me, and two of my mates and their wives—I observed nobody else—I did not see the prisoner—the public house has a swing door, partly open and partly shut, so that people could look in and see what was going on, without coming in—I received the money up stairs, but I had half a pint of gin at the bar, and changed a half sovereign in payment—a person outside the door could see that—I then left, and went about 200 yards, into Bell-street—(I went into no other public house)—my wife was two or three yards behind me, and when I got opposite to Porter's jerry shop, I was in the act of stepping off the pavement to cross the road to go home—I was immediately knocked down insensible on my face on the pavement, and was carried home in a cab, and was laid up for seven weeks—the blow was on my left temple, the skin was broken about three-quarters of an inch—I bled very much; here is blood on my jacket now—the prisoner was not taken for some time afterwards—my wife said, "That is the man," and he said that he was very sorry.
Cross-examined by MR. TORR. Q. What was the size of the shop in which you were drinking at the counter? A. About four or six feet wide—I could see from one side to the other at one glance, and if the prisoner had been in the room I must have seen him—swing doors only open when a person puts his hand to them—if a person had been peeping in at the door, I had a fair opportunity of seeing him, but I saw nobody looking in—I changed the half sovereign at the bar, my back was then to the door—I put the money into my side pocket—I had on my head only a cap made of a little bit of blue cloth, it had been made six years, and had got very thin—it was not cut through, but my head bled a great deal—I lost none of my money—I do not know that the prisoner was aware that I had any—it was 9 o'clock when I came out of the house.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it between 11 and 12 o'clock when you were struck? A. Yes.
CAROLINE MIDDLEBROOK . I am the wife of the last witness, and was with him in the public house in Manning-street—he went up stairs to get his money, I remained down stairs—he came down and got something to drink at the bar, and took out half a sovereign—at that time the prisoner was sitting on a side form—I am sure of that, and that man (pointing to a person) was with him—my husband put the change into his pocket, I believe, and we all went towards home—I was walking behind my husband in Bell-street, as I was carrying some loaves home—the prisoner was behind me, and this man with him, and as my husband got to the corner of Bell-street, the prisoner lifted up his hand and struck him; he fell down, and the other man said, "It is no go, now, Tom"—they ran away, while I called "Murder! police!"—assistance was procured, and my husband was
taken home in a cab, and lay insensible for three weeks—I saw nothing in the prisoner's hand when he struck him—it was at the moment he was struck that I called, "Murder! police!" and they both turned round and looked at him as he lay on the ground, and one cried to the other, "It is no go, Tom."
Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen either of the men before? A. No; I can say which of them spoke, because I saw his mouth move—I swear that—he was six yards off me—it is a wide street, but small carts mostly pass through it—he was close against a lamp—it was facing Lisson-street, and the light was at the corner of Little James-street, which is right facing—the blow was struck at the corner of little James-street—when they struck my husband I was behind him, and before me they passed me to get at him—although they had their backs to me I saw the man's mouth move, and therefore I know that it was he that spoke, and not the other—my husband had had a little drop of beer, I do not know how much—he generally comes home from 7 to 8 o'clock—I went to the beer house about 9 o'clock, and remained there nearly an hour—I could see that he had had a little liquor when I went there, and after that we had half a pint of gin between the lot of us—Batley and Smith, and their wives, were there—I had part of the gin.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. It occurred close against the lamp, and therefore you had no difficulty in seeing the man's face? A. Yes; I can swear to him—I was with the prosecutor from the public house to the time that he was struck, there is no pretence for saying that he struck the prisoner, or spoke to him—I went to the public house because my husband had not come home.
(MR. SLEIGH. proposed to call the Clerk of the Court to prove that the prisoner had pleaded Guilty to an assault committed at the same time. MR. TORR. contended that there was no precedent for such a course. THE COURT. considered that if admitted, it would prove nothing, the averment of the day being immaterial, and therefore excluded the evidence.)
WILLIAM HOWSE . (policeman, D 85). I took the prisoner in the Edgware-road some few weeks after the alleged offence—I had been looking after him—I said "Tom, I want you"—he said, "You do not mean that?"—I said, "Yes, I do"—I told him that it was for knocking down a man in Bell-street about five weeks ago—I did not say, "With intent to rob him"—he said, "I consider the man as bad as myself, it was a fair stand up fight"—when the charge was read at the station, he said, "I am very sorry that it should happen"—I called him Tom, as I knew him.
COURT. to CAROLINE MIDDLEBROOK. Q. Are you quite sure you saw the prisoner sitting on that seat? A. Yes; he could see my husband against the bar—the prisoner was by himself on the form, and the other man was outside the door.
MR. TORR. called
SAMUEL DYER . On 8th Nov. I was in Bell-street—(MRS. MIDDLEBROOK. here stated that this was not the man she had pointed out)—I heard screams of "Murder!" and then saw the prisoner running, and the prosecutor running behind him, the prisoner turned round and hit him, and down he went—that is all I saw—I did not see a policeman come up.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What are you? A. A labourer—I live at No. 15, Great James-street, Lisson-grove, which adjoins Bell-street—I do not know where the prisoner lives—I knew nothing of him before that night—I had not met him at that public house, and do not know that I ever saw him before—I did not wait till the policeman came up—I went
away home—it was not my business to stop—I made my appearance in this matter before the Magistrate, and was examined twice—that was on 8th Nov.—the prisoner was an utter stranger to me, but I was asked to go there by the policeman—I gave no information at the police court next day about it, but on the Sunday night following, I was standing outside the house, and the prosecutor's brother-in-law came up and said, "Did you see what happened to my brother-in-law?"—I knew the prosecutor previously, and knew that it was him when he was being knocked down, and his wife also—I saw him knocked down, and heard his wife crying "Murder!"—I thought it was no business of mine, and went home; it was not my business to interfere between man and wife.
MR. TORR. Q. You heard the cries of "Murder!" first? A. Yes; and the prosecutor was following, running after the prisoner, and then the prisoner turned and struck him, and he fell on the kerb, and lay in the gutter—he lay as if he was very much hurt—I did not see him get up.
COURT. Q. What was the exact place where the knocking down was? A. In Bell-street, Edgware-road, facing Porter's, the Jerry shop, which was shut up—Mr. Thompson's, the butcher, is two doors off on the left hand side, the same side as the Tom and Jerry shop.
COURT. to MRS. MIDDLEBROOK. Q. Did you keep sight of your husband all the time? A. Yes; he did not run after the prisoner—when I saw the man lift his arm up, I called "Murder!"—my husband was before the man when he was struck—I never saw the man till I saw him in the beer shop—I do not know the man's name whom I have pointed out.
ANN TAYLOR . I am a respectable young woman, and am a cook. I was subpœnaed by the prisoner—I left my situation on 2nd Nov. at Mrs. General Pilkington's—I was at the beer house in Manning-street—I went in at half past 9 o'clock, for a pint of ale, with my brother, who is a sailor—the prisoner was drinking some rum, and I said to my brother, "I believe that is uncle's carter"—that was a short man, who was standing near to Middlebrook—my brother took the ale round, and offered it to him to drink, and the man who was with the prisoner immediately knocked it over my brother, and that was how the row commenced—the prisoner said, "I do not like to see my friend ill used; I will go round"—he went round, and said, "I shall not allow him to be hit"—I left my child on the bar, as I saw a quarrel commencing, and took my brother by the arm, saying, "Do come out," and the little man took me by my shoulders, and put me out of the public house—they would not allow me to get my brother away—I went home, and came out again at half past 10 o'clock, and was going to Crawford-street—I passed the public house, and the prosecutor and the short man were standing outside the public house door, and my brother and the prisoner inside—Middlebrook said to the short man, "I never knew Tom, but I will lay for him"—the little man said to Middlebrook, "You hit him first"—Middlebrook said, "Well, I know I did, but you need not say so, but I will lay for him, and bury my foot in his skull, and kick his brains out," with fearful expressions which I cannot use—I went home, and at 5 minutes to 12 o'clock I heard some cries at the public house, and I went out and assisted my brother when he was fetched out, after the navigators had cut his face about—I did not go into Bell-street.
Cross-examined. Q. You know nothing about what took place in Bell-street? A. No—the prosecutor's wife was inside the public house—the conversation
took place exactly at the public house door—the prisoner was inside, but was not taking part in the conversation—he was standing with my brother—I did not see the prosecutor have any beer—I saw him call for half a pint of gin, but did not see him pay for it—they were waiting outside for this man—they said that they would lay for him—I was passing by with my sister, and said, "There has been an upset; let us listen to what they say"
MR. TORR. Q. Is your sister here? A. No; my brother is, and can show the marks on his head.
(The JURY. wished to find the prisoner guilty of an assault; but as he had pleaded guilty to that, THE COURT. considered that the course would be to find a verdict of NOT GUILTY.)
The prisoner was stated to have been twice before in custody, and was sentenced to be Confined Three Months.
WILLIAM GOGGIN . I am a tailor. On 17th Dec. I was in Whitechapel, High-street, going towards Rosemary-lane—it was about half past 1 or 2 o'clock, on the morning of the 18th, Thursday I think—I should say that I had about 1l. or upwards in my pocket, but cannot swear what—I was rather the worse for liquor—I left home with 1l. 4s. 6d., at about 10 o'clock, and went to receive 3l. at a club, but I got none of it, and did not receive it till a week or nine days afterwards—I told the police that I lost about 3l—I thought then, being in liquor, that I had drawn the 3l.—I was under a mistake, till I inquired afterwards—I gave evidence at the police office on Thursday, the day after—I was to get the money at a temperance society, No. 86, Royal Mint-street—the prisoner laid hold of me in High-street, Whitechapel, and collared me, and bursted the eyes out of my head—he thrust his knuckles into my collar—I remember that being done, and that is all I recollect, until I was taken to the station—I was not quite drunk, but I was rather the worse for liquor—I got in liquor before I went to the Temperance Society's office—I forget whether I had some rum—I do not think I went into any house—it was Scully that had hold of my throat—I know him by his features—I had never seen him before, but am certain he is the man—I know nothing about the woman—when I recovered my senses the inspector gave me 5s.—I cannot swear that I had more than that—I did not spend 1l. 4s.—I am quite sure I lost money, and that Scully is the person that thrust his hand into my pocket—he rubbed his knuckles into my neck, and my senses went then.
Scully. The constable took hold of me, and he was asked in the street if I was the man who did it, and he said, "No." Witness. No such thing—the policeman will tell you whether I was on my feet or lying down; I only know that I was collared.
FRANCIS WILLIAMS . (policeman, H 12). About half past 2 o'clock on Thursday morning, 18th Dec, I saw the female prisoner and the prosecutor come out of the Bed Lion and Spread Eagle public house, Whitechapel, and walk together towards Whitechapel Church—Scully came out of the same public house and looked after them, he then went in again, and in a minute or a minute and a half came out and walked in the same direction as they had—in five minutes I heard a noise, went and saw Scully on the pavement, holding Goggin down, with his knees upon his chest, and, as well as I could see, his hands in his pockets—Smith was
standing by his side—when I got within five or six yards of them, Scully ran away—I sent Harler after him, and detained Smith—I assisted Goggin up, he could not speak for some time—he appeared to have suffered very much—Scully was brought back by Harler—Goggin was then just able to speak, and said, "You have throttled me, you have robbed me, you thief."—Scully said, "Me, Sir!" and then fell on the pavement, and pretended to be drunk, but he had not the least appearance of it before—I had seen him five or six times in the half hour previous—he began to swear, and kick, and resisted violently all the way to the station, we were obliged to put handcuffs on him at the station, he was so violent, I saw Goggin's left waistcoat pocket turned inside out, and asked him what money he had lost, he said, "I can hardly tell"—after that he said, "I think I have lost between 3l. and 4l. "—being the worse for liquor, we detained him at the station for the night—Goggin appeared to be suffering very much, and for a week afterwards, when he was before the Magistrate.
Scully Q. Did not he say when I was taken that I was not the person? A. He did not; he identified you when you were brought back, and again at the station, when you were nearly half naked from your clothes being torn so.
WILLIAM JAMES HARLER . (policeman, H 208). I heard a cry of "Police!" went to the spot, and saw the prosecutor groping down on the ground, and Scully kneeling on his chest—he ran away and I ran after him and brought him back, and Goggin identified him, and said that he had robbed him of 4l.—Smith stood on his left side as he lay down, but I cannot say whether she did anything.
JAMES GAIR . (policeman, H 447). On 18th Dec. I was on, duty in High-street, Whitechapel, and heard a cry of "Police!"—I went across the road, and saw Goggin lying on the pavement—Williams and I lifted him up, and in a moment afterwards Scully was brought back in custody—Goggin looked at him and said, "That is the man that strangled me, and robbed me of 4l. "—Scully said, "You cannot prove that"—Goggin said, "You are the man"—Scully threw himself on the pavement as if in fits, and became very violent, he resisted very much.
Scully's Defence. I am innocent, my hair was pulled out, my shoes were taken off, and I was beaten about the head—I tried to go quietly, but they kicked me as I went along, and served me the same at the station.
COURT. to FRANCIS WILLIAMS. Q. How did the prosecutor and Smith walk? A. Arm in arm—I saw her do nothing else—I did not search her—I do not think she was searched at the station—I have seen the prisoners together in the same house that they came out of, for a week previously.
WILLIAM JAMES HARLER . re-examined. I had seen them together every night for a fortnight before, just about that spot—I searched Goggin—he had only 5s. 1 1/2 d.—I looked in every pocket—the 5s. was in his right hand trowsers pocket, and his left waistcoat pocket was turned out.
Scully. I can prove that to be an untruth, for I had not been long out of my trouble, and was sick for a week after that.
SCULLY— GUILTY . Aged 22.
SMITH— GUILTY .* Aged 17.— Confined Nine Months.
Scully was further charged with having been before convicted.
Central Criminal Court, John Scully, Convicted, March, 1856, of burglary:
Confined nine months)—he is the person—I am quite sure of him.
GUILTY.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, January 8th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Mr. Justice WILLES.; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Baron Martin, and the Fourth Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN. and CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN LEE BENHAM . I am an ironmonger, carrying on business with my partners, in Wigmore street. Our premises are part in Wigmore-street, and part in Welbeck-street—I reside on the premises—about the beginning of Dec., we were making alterations in the premises, so as to throw in the house, No. 65, Welbeck-street, and labourers were engaged there, and had been that day—there is a large shop door which enters from Wigmore-street into the shop, and communicates with the house part of the premises in Wigmore-street—there is also a door at the house, No. 65, Welbeck-street—on 10th Dec., the party wall had been thrown down, so as to communicate from No. 64, Welbeck-street, into the premises in Wigmore-street—at the back of the premises in Wigmore-street, are leads which cover the rooms on the ground floor—on 10th Dec., I retired to rest at 11 o'clock; my servants retired at the same time—the shop had been fastened up previously; the door in Wigmore-street was fastened also, but it only fastens with a patent latch, there is no bolt to it—on the morning of the 11th, I was awoke by the ringing of the bell in Wigmore-street—my bedroom is on the second floor, at the corner of Welbeck-street—I looked out at the window, and saw a policeman in Welbeck-street—I went down to the door of No. 64, Welbeck-street, and found the door standing open, and the prisoner at the door in his policeman's uniform; another policeman was there also—as I came down I heard the prisoner say to the other policeman, "Do not you leave, if you do, I will report you"—I spoke to the prisoner first—there is a large well hole, which leads down to the basement of No. 65, without any railing; and I said, "Last night I saw a candle left burning there, by the basket of one of the builders; we will go down here and see whose basket it was by which the candle stood; it may lead to some discovery"—I then went down the ladder of the well hole, to the basement floor, and found the basket and candle, and said, "We will take away this basket; I will take it into my private room, and I will find in the morning whose basket it is"—the prisoner went down with me (I had sent a person to put the candle out when I discovered it)—I afterwards discovered that the basket belonged to one of the gas fitters, one of my own workmen—you can easily get from the basement to the street by coming up the ladder—the prisoner said, "I will carry the basket"—he went forward, and did not go up the ladder that we had come down by, to my surprise, but went up a new staircase which was in an unfinished state; there are about four steps, and then the frame of a landing, but nothing to step on—that staircase brings you up into No. 65, Welbeck-street, to the ground floor; it is the intended communication from the ground floor to the basement—the house looks east at the corner of
Wigmore-street and Welbeck-street—the well hole is inside the house (The witness pointed out the different positions on a plan)—I came up the staircase which brought me up to the ground floor of No. 65, Welbeck-street again—I then went over the show room on the ground floor, which extends over the premises in Wigmore-street, and also to the back, but we went merely over the premises in Wigmore-street—a party wall had been taken down, and in the partition an aperture was made by which we go through at the west end of the other house; we went through, and then went eastward the whole length to the lamp room—nothing appeared to have been disturbed—I said to the prisoner, "Here is nothing disturbed, everything is precisely as it was"—he made no observation upon that, and we returned; I intending to take him out into the street again, to let him out—in doing so he came to a little enclosure in which there was a desk belonging to one of my sons, and he said, "Let us look in here"—it is a little recess between the shop and No. 65; it forms an aperture in the party wall—it is visible from the shop, and there is a railing, a little gallery—I looked at my son's desk, it had been apparently disturbed, the papers inside had been moved; it was shut, but not locked—I said, "Well, here is nothing gone;" for I had no suspicion of money whatever—he said, "Look here;" referring to a drawer which was standing open on the left hand, under the desk; the bolt was shot up, and it evidently had been forced open by some means—I had no suspicion that money had been kept in that drawer—I said, "It has evidently been broken open"—we then went into an adjoining office belonging to my eldest son; it leads towards Welbeck-street; the prisoner went in first—I did not cause him to go in there; I think I said, "We will go to the next desk," but I do not remember—I lifted up the desk, and saw the papers in great confusion, but said, "They have taken nothing however"—he then said, "Look here," pointing his light down to a drawer below the desk which had been forced open; he said also, "Here are two porte-monnaies lying open on a chair, and empty"—I did not know to whom they belonged, but I suspected to my son—we then went into the shop where the clerk's desks are, and he directed his light to another little drawer under the first desk which we came to—he went first, of necessity, to the clerks' desks, for on entering my second son's counting house, it is so narrow, that whoever went first must continue first—I did not direct him which way to go; he went forward into the shop first—there was another small drawer which had been forced also—he then went forward, I am not sure who went first, to another office, where the writing clerks are, and there he pointed my attention to a cash box which had been broken open—an erasing knife was lying by the side of the cash box, it had been broken evidently in the attempt to open the cash box—I was not still under the impression that nothing had been taken when I saw that the drawers had been forced; but my impression was, that they were very trifling sums—we kept money in that cash box, we generally give out 10l. among the clerks for change, and that I imagined would be the extent of the loss—I conducted the prisoner to the door by which he had entered, and the other policeman was still there—just before he went out we had been up stairs, into the drawing room of No. 65, and found the window open—the glass had been taken out of that window for the convenience of the workmen going backwards and forwards—the window opens on to the leads of the premises in Wigmore-street—the leads are bounded on one side by Easly-news—on 10th Dec., the builders were employed in going out of the room in Wigmore-street, over those leads to the mews; but the builders who ascend that ladder were not employed
there, but in a different show room; it was not the builders employed in Welbeck-street, but others—the prisoner went through the window by means of two planks that were there; he walked up the planks, looked about and came back, and said, "One of your windows is open"—I said, "We will find that out, I can see none;" and I went into the house again, and asked the servants if one of the windows was open—I found that it was not one of my windows, but one at No. 20, Wigmore-street—my drawing room window was open—we examined the street door, but there were no marks of violence whatever—the other doors were quite secure—the inspector came to me about 9 o'clock next morning.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Some three or four months before the robbery, had you occasion to require the police to watch the premises, in consequence of some suspicion which existed in your mind? A. Not to watch the premises generally, but to watch an apprentice inside the premises—the prisoner rung the bell in Wigmore-street, but it was the door of No. 65, Welbeck-street that was open—the house did not appear to have been forced—I did not go round the premises the night before to see what doors were locked—there was a bolt to that door besides the lock; that door was at that time more in the charge of the builders to fasten than of my servants, we trusted to them to leave it fast—I think the foreman of the builders had the key—ten or twelve bricklayers and carpenters were employed on the premises, and there was my own gas fitter—the repairs are not yet complete—they had been working there about two months—when I found the prisoner at the door, he had a bull's eye lantern—it was quite dark, and he preceded me through the premises—I had a candle—he appeared more familiar with the premises than I liked.
MR. BODKIN. Q. This person, of whose conduct you had some suspicion, how long is it since he quitted you? A. About six months previously—I was suspicious of petty articles being taken from the premises—I spoke to a detective officer on the subject, but never to the prisoner—the person I suspected was watched, but nothing was discovered against him.
JAMES BENHAM. I am a son of the prosecutor. On the night of this robbery I went round the premises, and can speak to all the external doors being secure, except the one at No. 65, Welbeck-street, which I did not examine—about 6 o'clock next morning my attention was called to my desk; both it and the little drawer under it were locked the night before, and about 10l. 10s. was there—there was a paper envelope with two sovereigns, a porte-monnaie with ten half sovereigns, and a brown holland bag with twelve half crowns, twenty shillings, one five-shilling piece, a two-frane piece, and the rest in shillings and sixpences—on the following morning they were all gone, and the porte-monnaie lying empty on a chair at the side; the bag was taken away—my desk adjoins the temporary partition, and is near the opening which had been made in that partition, adjoining my brother's office—there are six other drawers there, but they are without locks; this drawer had a Bramah lock, but the others had only knobs—nothing was taken from the desk, but it was turned upside down—there had been no money in it.
FREDERICK BENHAM . I am in partnership with my father. On the evening of 10th Dec. I examined the door of No. 65, Welbeck-street; it was at that time securely fastened by the latch—there are bolts, but it would not bolt—I have a desk in that shop—I left in an open box, in a drawer under the desk, three sovereigns, a half sovereign, and about 7s. 6d. in silver—there are five drawers, but the one with the lock had been forced
open, and the money gone—the desk appeared to have been disturbed, but I did not notice whether the drawers were.
PATRICK M'LAUGHLAN . On 10th Dec. last I was working at Mr. Benham's premises, in Welbeck-street, as a carpenter's labourer—about 4 o'clock, that day, I went out on to the leads, and told Michael Wallis to shut the drawing room window when he came down at night—the sashes of that window were taken out at the time we were working there—it was the shutters I told him to shut; they were there still—Wallis was there after me—I left at half past 6 o'clock—I went out by the door in Welbeck-street, and closed it after me.
MICHAEL WALLIS . I am a carpenter's labourer. On 10th Dec. I was working at Mr. Benham's premises, in Wigmore-street—in the course of that day I had been working in the drawing room in Welbeck-street, and going out on the leads—I left work about half past 6 o'clock—the sashes were taken out of one of the windows that open on to the leads—when I left the room the shutter were fastened—a bolt goes right across so as to connect the two—I fastened that bolt—it is not a bow window; there are three windows at the back; the other two windows were closed—the sashes were in one, I believe, and partly out of the centre one—the shutters of all three were closed—I put a board against the one nearest Wigmore-street; that was not the one I had been going in and out of—when I left the premises, I went out of the Welbeck-street door—I must have gone out about the same time as M'Laughlan, but I did not exactly notice whether we went out together or not.
Cross-examined. Q. During the progress of the work were you in the habit of going in and out of that window? A. Yes; it was the general window for getting in and out—I was frequently in and out of it for days, while the work was going on; we brought in the materials through that window.
JAMES HIGHWAY . I am in the service of Messrs. Benham. On the evening of the robbery I left some money in a cash box, locked, in a drawer which was unlocked, at the table at which I wrote; that was on the ground floor—I cannot say exactly how much I left, as I had not counted it from the Friday night before, but about 2l. 7s.—I know there was a sovereign and one half sovereign, I cannot say whether there was more than one half sovereign, and the remainder was in silver—I saw the cash box again about 9 o'clock next morning—it had then been broken open, and the money taken, all but the coppers—there was an erasing knife that I use, lying close by the side of it; it was broken, and appeared to have been used to open the box—I had left it in the drawer over night.
Cross-examined. Q. The cash box had evidently been forced open? A. Yes, as if by some sharp instrument—the lock itself was not burst, but the soldering had been forced—I have not got the knife here—the lock was one with double bolts.
MR. BODKIN. Q. The bolts go into a double staple? A. Yes—the soldering of the staple had given way; the lock remained intact.
CHARLES WOOD DENHAM . I am employed at Mr. Benham's. On 10th Dec., when I left, I left about 8l. 7s. 10d. in money, in a till that I used—there was about 6l. or 7l. in sovereigns and half sovereigns, about three or four florins, two or three half crowns, and several shillings—there was more than a pound's worth of silver—that till was locked when I went away at night—when I came in the morning it had been forced open, and all the contents gone, except some coppers—it was a drawer under the desk, with little round bowls for money in it.
Cross-examined. Q. How did the till appear to have been forced open? A. It had every appearance of some instrument having been passed between the upper woodwork and the till, and being prised up; it had then fallen back again, so as to secure it.
WILLIAM FORD . I am employed at Mr. Benham's. On the night of 10th Dec., when I left, I left a drawer, which I use as a till, locked, and about 29s. in it—there was one sovereign, and 9s. in silver—on the following morning I found the drawer had been forced open by some instrument, and the money gone.
EDWARD CUNNINGHAM . I am employed at Mr. Benham's. I have a desk there where I put money—on the night of 10th Dec., when I went away, I left there 10s. 7d. in silver, and seven penny pieces—it was not locked—when I came in the morning the 10s. was gone, and the coppers left—I saw a shilling at the station house, which I certainly believe to be a shilling that was in my drawer on the night of 10th Dec.—I noticed it when a porter brought it to me—a piece was knocked out of the edge of it, and it was rather black on the right hand side of the woman—I certainly believe it to be the one, but I did not swear to it at the police court—I think this (produced) is the shilling.
Cross-examined. Q. You say you could not swear to it at the police-court? A. I did not say I could not, I said I would not—I do not swear to it now, still I believe it to be the shilling—there is something dark at the right hand of the woman; there was, I do not know whether there is now or not, it has been through a good many hands since I first saw it—it appeared to me as if a person such as a sweep might have had it in his fingers, and so left the mark on it.
MR. BODKIN. Q. When did you notice it? A. When it was given to me, the porter paid me 2s.—that was something like an hour before I left, or it may be rather more, I am not quite certain—it does not appear so dark now as it was then—there is a nick just in the edge where I noticed it—and when I found the money was gone out of the desk, I spoke to Mr. Benham about the shilling before I went to the station house—I saw the shilling at the station that same afternoon—it was much darker then than it is now, in my opinion—Mackerell, the Inspector, I believe, showed it to me—it was not shown to me in consequence of what I had stated to Mr. Benham—a bowl of silver was brought forward, and I picked out this from the rest—I had previous to that described it to Mr. Benham, and I think to Mr. Mackerell.
WILLIAM HALL . (policeman, D 288). On the night of the robbery my beat was on the right hand side of Welbeck-street—that is adjoining the prisoner's beat, he took one side of Welbeck-street, and I the other—I know the prisoner's beat, I believe it describes the figure 8—he starts from the corner of Wigmore-street and Marylebone-lane, goes down Marylebone-lane, then up Bentinck-street, and up one side of Welbeck-street, he then goes down Wigmore-street as far as Wimpole-street, he then turns down Wimpole-street till he comes to Little Welbeck-street, goes along Little Welbeck-street, and then up on the other side of Welbeck-street—I suppose he then goes into Eastley's-mews—in going back he would go through Eastley's-mews—that is the whole of his beat—I should think it would take him about twenty or twenty-five minutes, walking at a usual pace—I
saw the prisoner that night a few minutes after 12 o'clock—his duty commenced at 12 o'clock—I saw him about a quarter, or rather better past 12 o'clock, at the corner of Little Welbeck-street in Welbeck-street—there is a shutter-box there, where we put away our capes if we do not want them—he and I did so that night—we then walked a short way together through Little Welbeck-street towards Wimpole-street—we had some little common conversation together—he said that he had spent 18d. of his week's money, and had given the rest to his wife, and that she had laid it out in domestic purposes, grocery, and things for the house—the wages were paid the day before—he was merely saying that he had spent 18d. out of his money, that his wife rather objected to it, and he had given her the rest, and he said he had no money—when he said he had given his wife the money, and she had spent it, I merely said that I did not lay out the money myself, but I knew pretty well what things cost, and that was the whole of the conversation, and I went on round my beat—I saw him again that night at 1 o'clock, as near as I can say, as I came round my beat—I met him in Little Welbeck-street—as I went one way he was passing another—I saw him again at a few minutes before 3 o'clock, just upon the same place, just as he was going down—each time that I had met him I met him there, passing round—he went one way and I the other—I did not see him between 1 o'clock and a few minutes to 3—I had been round my beat, and through Little Welbeck-street as usual, and I had not seen him—I saw him at 4 o'clock at the corner of Welbeck-street, at Mr. Benham's house—that was the time for me to go off my beat—I came down on the left hand side of Welbeck-street, and passed over there—he was at the corner of Welbeck-street and Wigmore-street, with his lamp turned on—he called my attention, and said there was a street door open—I saw that the street door was wide open, standing back—he was standing close by the door—it was the first door from Wigmore-street—he rang the bell—Mr. Benham came down, and the prisoner went into the house—I went in afterwards—I did not go over the place with him, I stood in the unoccupied part of the house, that is, the house that is being taken into the premises—I stood so as to have a view of the street door—we went in at that door—no person could have left the premises by that door after the prisoner went in, without my seeing them.
Cross-examined. Q. Your beat is not precisely the same beat as the prisoner's; you only meet at certain places? A. We meet at Little Welbeck-street as we pass—my beat partly joins his—we pass each other in going through Little Welbeck-street—that is the only street in the two beats in which, in the ordinary course, we should meet—it takes me much about the same time to go round my beat, as it took the prisoner to go round his—it would take me about twenty minutes, I dare say—we only occasionally met in Welbeck-street—if he or I were a few minutes behind, then we did not meet there—policemen are sometimes in the habit of receiving some trifling perquisites for ringing persons up—there is a person in Welbeck-street who was in the habit of being called, sometimes by me, and sometimes by the prisoner—it was a sweep, who lives in Little Welbeck-street—I do not remember the prisoner saying that he had had no money lately for calling that man—I do not know of any person in Bentinck-street who was in the habit of being called by the police about that-time—I do not remember his making any observation to me about not having had any money lately for calling any person in either of those streets—there was no quarrel or ill feeling between me and the prisoner about his being employed
in calling this person more frequently than me—before I was examined before the Magistrate, I made a report to the inspector—that was on Thursday, the 11th—I made a verbal report to Mr. Hughes, our superintendent, and a written report was given in to Inspector Mackerell in the usual way—I wrote it—I told Mr. Hughes about meeting the prisoner at the early part of the night, a little after 12 o'clock—I told him that the prisoner had told me he had got no money—I was examined twice before the Magistrate—I told Mr. Hughes that the prisoner said he had no money between 12 and half past 1 o'clock—I cannot say whether Mr. Mackerell was standing near when I made the communication to Superintendent Hughes—my period of going off duty was 4 o'clock—when the prisoner went into the house with Mr. Benham, I did not want to go off my beat and go away, I went in with him—I do not remember the prisoner telling me to wait there, or saying if I went away he would report me—I do not remember his saying anything about reporting—there was no other officer at the door beside myself and the prisoner—he did not say, "If you leave here before I come back I will report you"—he might have said so, I did not hear him—he was walking on to go into the premises, and I went in behind Mr. Benham and him.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Had the prisoner and Mr. Benham got into the place before you followed them? A. They were just walking in, and I walked in behind, and stood in the unoccupied part of the house—I did not hear him say so to me.
THOMAS KNIGHT . (police sergeant, D 13). On the night of 10th or morning of 11th Dec. I was on duty as sergeant to visit the different policemen on their beats—the prisoner was on duty that night on the beat that has been described—I first saw him on his beat between half past 12 and 1 o'clock; he was then working his beat all right—I had no conversation with him, I only called out, "All right?" and he answered me "All right"—I saw him again at a few minutes before 3 o'clock at the corner of Welbeck-street and Wigmore-street, Mr. Benham's corner—I asked him if it was all right—he said it was, and I told him there was a penny to pay for the widow of a late constable—it is a custom to collect a penny from all the officers in the force for the widows—he said, "I do not think I have got one"—I said, "Give me a shilling, I have plenty of coppers"—he then pulled a penny from his great coat pocket, and gave me, at the same time he said, "I am not short of a shilling either," and he pulled out his pocket book, and opened it, and it was full of large silver—I did not form any opinion as to how much there was—I said to him, "You have plenty of money, Compton"—he said, "Yes, will you have half a crown to drink my health?"—I said, "No, I do not want your money," and left him to go from him, and he slipped a half crown into my great coat pocket—my wrapper was in it, and my pocket was a little way open, and he dropped the half crown into it—he told me it was there, or else I should not have known it—he said, "It is in your pocket"—I took it out, and threw it on the pavement, and asked him the reason why he took such a liberty as that, that I did not want his money, and I ought to report him for it—he had never offered me any money before—I told him to leave his beat at 4 o'clock, and go in reserve to the station to look after the prisoners—I then proceeded on my rounds—it was my turn to go off at 4 o'clock, and go to the station—I saw the prisoner again, a little after 4 o'clock, at Mr. Benham's door, with a lamp turned on—I was not close to him—I called to him, and told him not to forget to go in as a reserve man—he was not going off till 6 o'clock, but the reserve men
were going off at 4, and he was to supply their place—he then said, "I have found a door open"—I told him to arouse the inmates, and to come in to the station house, and bring the report to me as soon as he could—I then went to the station, and waited there till nearly 5 o'clock for his report—he came to the station a few minutes before 5 o'clock, in a very confused and excited state—I asked him what was the end of finding this door open—he said, the door was open, and the house had been entered, some drawers had been broken open, and a cash box—he was in that confused state that I took him before the inspector; he could not stand still—he made a similar report to the inspector, and I made a short report on my slate, and gave it to the inspector, and asked the inspector to send word as soon as Mr. Benham was up, to know what the result of this open door was—I then left the prisoner with Mr. Mackerell—he followed me out to get some coffee—I left him and went home, and went to bed—I was called up about half past 7 o'clock, by a sergeant, to say that there had been a burglary—I did not go to Mr. Benham's—in consequence of what I heard that morning, I accompanied Mr. Mackerell to the prisoner's lodging, No. 6, Upper Weymouth-street, about 9 o'clock—he occupied two rooms at the top of the house, opening one into the other—it is a lodging house, a great many persons lodged there—the prisoner was not at home when we went in—Mr. Mackerell went down stairs, and came up in about two minutes with the prisoner—I remained in the room while he was gone—Mr. Mackerell told him that there had been a burglary at Mr. Benham's, and that he was suspected, and that he was come to search his lodging and himself—the prisoner said he had no money but what he worked hard for, but his wife and he had had a severe fall out, and he took all the money out with him—Mr. Mackerell began searching him, and he pulled out a pocket book himself, similar to that which I had seen the night before—it was opened by Mr. Mackerell; there was no silver in it then, but he said, "You will find a 5l. note"—Mr. Mackerell could not find it for a moment, but the prisoner took it himself and found it among some papers—I asked him what he had done with all the silver I saw at 3 o'clock—he said he had changed it for the 5l. note—Mr. Mackerell asked where—he said, "At Mr. Carruthers', in Marylebone-lane;" that is a public house called the New Inn—Mr. Mackerell searched him in my presence—6s. in silver was found in his trowsers pocket, two half crowns, and a shilling—I saw Mr. Mackerell find three duplicates—Mr. Mackerell also asked him who was with him at Carruthers'—he gave the numbers of six other constables—he was then taken to the station house—he was kept in custody all day, Thursday—he remained in the inspector's room at the station the whole of the Thursday, while we went to search the lodgings of the other constables that he gave the numbers of—on the Friday morning, the 12th, as I was taking him from the station to the police court, he said he should get over it—at the bottom of the street, a constable's wife looked out of the window of an empty house that she was taking care of, the prisoner swung up his arm, and said, "All serene, old gal, I shall get over this all right"—I said, "Don't be too sanguine, Compton; there will be more against you than you expect"—that was not in the hearing of the constable's wife, we had gone on, and got beyond her hearing—he made a bit of a stop, and turned round, and said, "You have not found the gold, Knight; that licks you"—the prisoner's wages were 18s. 7 1/2 d. a week—I believe he did some jobs as a shoemaker, for the police—I do not know to what extent; he could not do it to any extent, having his duties to perform—Eastley's-mews is on the prisoner's beat—it would be his duty to go down those mews every time he
passed round—he is supposed to be continually walking his beat; he walks it one way, so that I may meet him by coming round the contrary way—he could go round his beat very well in a quarter of an hour—I went round it in seventeen minutes, working every place—there happened to be a sergeant sick that night, or else I should have met him; but I did not come to the particular points so often as I should have done—the prisoner joined the force in 1852—he was put on this beat on the first Monday in Nov.
Cross-examined. Q. When in Nov.? A. The first Monday in Nov.—I did not go down Eastley's-mews next morning—I know it very well—when Mackerell spoke to the prisoner, and said that he should search him, he immediately took the pocket book out of his pocket, and said, in my hearing, that there was a 5l. note in it, which he had obtained at Carruthers'—I found out that that was true—Mackerell also asked him, in my hearing, who had been at Carruthers', and he gave the name of six constables, which I found correct—I do not recollect his asking him if he had been home that morning, nor did I ask him—it was only the constable's wife, who was looking out at the window, not the constable—his name is Wheeler—he is here; I have not seen his wife here—it was immediately after the words I have told you, that he said, "You will not find the gold;" it was all in continuation as I spoke it—I believe those are the words which he spoke—he said, "All serene, old girl," or words to the same effect—those are the words; he swung up his hand, and said, "All serene, old girl; I shall get over this all right;" and it was then I said, "Do not be too sanguine"—I believe he had been in the habit of working as a shoemaker during the five years he has been in the force—he has not frequently boasted of his money to me—I heard him say once that he lent an inspector 50l.—his father was in the force before him, and was pensioned off for good conduct—I am not aware that his wife has been doing something to earn money—I am not much acquainted with her—he had not just made a pair of boots for my wife; it was eighteen months before—I had paid him for them—there was no quarrel between us about the price, not a word—I did not object to the charge of 7s. that he made for them—I paid him three weeks after they were made—that delay was not in consequence of my objecting to pay him the amount he asked—he asked me to allow him to make them, and said, "Never mind the money; pay me when it suits you."
MR. BODKIN. Q. How long ago is it since he told you that he had lent an inspector 50l.? A. Three or four months ago—I do not believe that to be true—the woman was at the first floor window—the ground floor is a shop—we were not near enough to the window for her to hear what he said about the gold—we had turned the corner, out of her sight, at that time.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did you make a report to inspector Mackerell or Hughes as to the evidence you were to give against this man, before you were examined at the police court? A. I did, and it was taken down in writing by the superintendent—I did not state in that report all that I have stated to-day—the report was made before those words were spoken—the conversation took place before the first examination, after the report was given at the station.
GEORGE MACKERELL . (police inspector, D). On the morning on which this robbery was discovered I was at the St. Marylebone station, and saw the prisoner arrive about 20 minutes to 5 o'clock; 4 o'clock was his time to come in—he told sergeant Knight, in my hearing, of the robbery as accounting for his being delayed—I gave necessary directions about it—the prisoner said when he came in that he felt very faint, and wished me to
allow him to go and get a cup of coffee—I said, "Yes"—I afterwards noticed something unusual in his manner—I had seen very little of him before—he left to get the coffee, and I saw him back again in seven or eight minutes—I had occasion to notice him afterwards—I had to ask him a question two or three times, and he was always out of call—I told him he must keep in the way, and asked him what was the matter with him; he seemed very restless—he made no answer—he quitted the station about 6 o'clock; that was his proper time—I sent a sergeant to make inquiries at Mr. Benham's at 6 o'clock, and on his return I thought it right to go to the prisoner's lodgings—he had been away nearly two hours before—he lodged in Weymouth-street—he was not at home when I got there, but he soon afterwards came in—I met him at the foot of the stairs, and said, "Have not you but just come home?"—he said, "No, I have only just come home"—I said, "Where have you been?"—he said, "At Mr. Carruthers' public house, in Marylebone-lane"—I asked him if anybody else was with him—he said, "Yes," and mentioned the names of several other constables—while we were speaking, he stepped sideways past me, and the moment he got beside me he ran up stairs as fast as he could, and I after him, up to the attic, which was where he lived—there are two rooms, which communicate internally with each other—he was in the inner room, the bedroom, when I got in—there was nobody else there, but sergeant Knight and the prisoner's wife were in the first room—I went into the bedroom, and said, "Compton, I am come about that door that you found open this morning at Mr. Benham's; it is a very serious matter; there has been a very large sum of money stolen; you are suspected, and I am come to search you and your lodgings"—he was in a very agitated state, and said, "Very well, you are welcome"—I searched him, and in his great coat pocket I found this pocket book (produced)—he took a 5l. note out of his pocket book himself—in his trowsers pocket I found two half crowns and one shilling—I asked him no question, but he said, voluntarily, that his wife and he had a disagreement the day before, and he took away all the money he had in the house, and got it changed for that note that morning at Mr. Carruthers'—I searched the rooms minutely, but found no money—I found these four duplicates (produced)—the earliest is for a watch, pawned on 7th April, for 30s.; a waistcoat, for 2s., on 4th Nov; the next, for a coat, for 14s., on 8th Nov.; and this last for a pair of trowsers, for 6s., on 2nd Dec.; all pawned at Mr. Thompson's, in East-street, in the prisoner's name—I did not take possession of the duplicates then; I did a few days afterwards, and found them where I left them—I went to Mr. Carruthers', and received from him 5l. worth of silver, with the shilling produced among it—after the search, the prisoner was taken to the station, and detained in custody—I saw him about 8 o'clock in the evening, and he complained of being kept there so long, and wished to know whether he would not be let go home, as he was on duty all the night before, and wanted some rest—I said, "You are no worse off in that respect than I am, but I think it possible you may be kept here all night"—he said, "What for? I have done nothing"—I said, "I did not find the gold that several persons say they saw in your possession this morning"—he said, "I had no gold, and I do not care if 100 people swear that I had"—I made no reply—the charge was read to him shortly after by the inspector on duty, and the prisoner in my hearing said that he was innocent—this (produced)is the money I got from Carruthers'—one crown piece, twenty half crowns, four florins, thirty-four shillings, and six sixpences—I then returned Mr. Carruthers his 5l. note—I went to the
premises of Mr. Benham on the morning in question—I did not go to the mews—I went on to the leads; they are about thirty feet from the ground—there are two floors—I did not see the ladder there—I remember the officer Hall making a verbal report to superintendent Hughes—it was in my presence—I heard what he said.
Cross-examined. Q. When was that report made? A. On the morning of the 11th; that was before any inquiry had been commenced before the Magistrate—in making that report, Hall mentioned the prisoner having told him in the middle of the night that he had no money.
CHARLES CARRUTHBRS . I keep the New Inn, Marylebone-lane. On the morning of 11th Dec., about 6 o'clock, the prisoner came to my house with five or six other constables—I have a bagatelle table up stairs, and they went up stairs when they came in—the bar is down stairs—the prisoner asked me to give him a 5l. note for some silver, and gave me 4l. in silver and two half sovereigns—there was a 5s. piece, some half crowns, florins, shillings, and sixpences—I placed the money in a cash box, and gave him a 5l. note for it—there was 2l. in silver in the cash box when I put the 4l. in; it was silver which I had taken the day before—after that the prisoner went up stairs again to the other constables—at the time he gave me the two half sovereigns, I saw over ten sovereigns and half sovereigns in his hand—he took that gold out of his pocket, I believe—I did not take notice where he took the silver from—I afterwards went to the cash box, and took some silver out to give some one change for a sovereign: that left 5l. in silver in the cash box—Mackrill called on me that morning with the 5l. note which I had given to the prisoner, and I gave him the 5l. worth of silver that was then in the cash box—I had put no silver in after the 4l. I took from the prisoner—the constables came about half past 6 o'clock, and left about half past 8; they all left together.
Cross-examined. Q. Is yours a coffee shop or a public house? A. A public house—the sign is the New Inn—the prisoner has been in the habit of frequenting my house during twelve months—I have kept it about two years and a half—I have several times seen him with money in his possession; a little gold as well as silver—his conduct has not been particularly generous; not more than others; he paid for what he had—I know nothing about his paying for what others had—the pot-boy receives the money—there was a crown piece among the silver the prisoner gave me—the 2l. in the cash box was what I had taken the previous day and evening—I saw some sovereigns in his hand; that was not when he was playing at bagatelle, it was after he had given me the change, but whether there were five or ten I should not like to say.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What time was it that you saw the 2l. in the cash box? A. When I put the other 4l. in—I had counted it over night—we generally shut about 12 o'clock, or it might have been half past 12 o'clock at night; it was after I had closed the house—from that time until I had changed the silver for the night, I had put nothing into the cash box—I had observed him with money; I cannot say how long before—it was of no use coming to my house unless he brought some money with him—I do not know what he paid for.
JOHN CHALKLEY . (policeman, D 199). I was at Carruthers' house playing at bagatelle on the morning after this robbery—I went there a little after 6 o'clock—the prisoner came and asked me to go and play at bagatelle with him, along with some other constables—we played for drink—when we went up to the room, the prisoner produced some money; I should think
about 20l. in gold—he wrapped it up in a piece of paper, and put it in a pocket book—I saw it in his hand—I never saw it put on the table—I heard some remark made upon it by one of the other constables—I did not hear exactly what it was—I did not hear the prisoner give any account about it at the time.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you been in the force? A. About three years and seven months—I have not been frequently in the habit of going to Carruthers'—I was there once before; I cannot say how long ago—I have been in company with the prisoner—I have on other occasions seen him with money in his possession to a very small amount—I cannot say that I have seen gold in his possession—I have seen him with silver—I have never seen him with gold before this—I cannot remember that I have been with him at Carruthers' before—I think I was once at a public house in High-street with him—I only judge that the gold I saw in his hand was about 20l.—it might be a little more or less; I should say there was 20l.—it consisted of sovereigns and half sovereigns—I cannot say where he took it from—he had no money to pay me.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Had he any to pay anybody else that you saw? A. Not in the room—I could not see what object he had in bringing out the money; that was why the observation was made.
GEORGE HARRIS KING . (policeman, D 76). I went to Carruthers' about half past 6 o'clock on the morning of 11th Dec.—I went off duty at 6 o'clock—all the constables who went there had just gone off duty—I went up stairs to the bagatelle room—the prisoner came up afterwards—I saw that he had got a handful of gold in one hand, and a 5l. note in the other—he laid the gold down on the bagatelle board as soon as he came up to the table, and the 5l. note—I should judge there to be about from 10l. to 20l. in gold, nearer 20l. than 10l.—he took it off the table, put it in a piece of paper, wrapped it up, and put it in his pocket book—I said to him, "Why, Compton, you appear to have plenty of money this morning"—he said, "Yes, and I have got plenty more at home."
Cross-examined. Q. Did he say anything about his wife and he having had a quarrel? A. No, not to me, nor in my hearing—I would not pledge myself as to the number of sovereigns he had—I joined this division last Oct. twelve months—I have been frequently in his company—I have not seen money in his possession on different occasions prior to this—I have been in public houses with him, and have played bagatelle with him—he always paid his part—we played for a pint of beer each—I have seen his wife and spoken to her—I have not visited them—I did not know his father, who was in the force—I have heard the prisoner boast of having plenty of money on previous occasions.
MR. BODKIN. Q. How long since? A. About a fortnight; he said then that he had lent money, and that had straitened his circumstances just then; but before then he had always had plenty of money—he named one party to whom he had lent money—it was an inspector that was then dead—I do not remember the sum he said he had lent him.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Did he tell you that he expected to be immediately repaid by the relations of the inspector? A. He said he was then trying to get it from his widow; but whether he got it or not I do not know.
WILLIAM SPRATT . (policeman, D 213). I was at Carruthers' on the morning of the 11th—I went there about half past 6 o'clock, and remained till about half past 8 o'clock—we all came away about the same time—when I first went in, the others were in the house, and I saw the prisoner in front
of the bar, and Mr. Carrnthers inside the bar—they were transacting some business, a money affair—I did not notice much, but I saw some silver lying on the counter—I went up stairs—the prisoner came up afterwards—I saw him with about 20l. in gold in his possession—I cannot say whether it was in sovereigns or half sovereigns—I should say it was something like a pound's worth of silver in bulk—I cannot say whether it was in his left hand or on the table—it was in a piece of paper—I did not see what he did with it—I should say there was about twenty sovereigns—he did not say a word about it.
Cross-examined. Q. The amount is a mere guess on your part, I suppose? A. Yes—I did not hear one of the constables speak to him about the money.
JOHN GREGORY . (policeman, D 294). I am one of the constables who went to Carruthers' house on the morning of 11th Dec.—I saw the prisoner come into the room where the bagatelle table was—I saw about twenty sovereigns, as near as I could judge, lying on the bagatelle board, and I saw the prisoner put it in his pocket book, and put it into his pocket—I said to him, "You are rather flush this morning"—he said, "Oh, yes, and I have got twenty or forty more here; in fact, I am not short of 400 or 500 at home."
Cross-examined. Q. I presume you were all in your uniform? A. I was—this was said before all the men—I had never been in his company before—I should think I saw near upon twenty sovereigns.
WILLIAM TORRINGTON . I supply persons with breakfast early in the morning. On the morning of 11th Dec. I took my stand at the corner of St. George's Market, Oxford-street, near Gilbert-street—that is close by where I live, and not more than two minutes' walk from the station—the prisoner came to me about half past 5 o'clock that morning, and asked for a cup of coffee—I served him, and he drank it—it came to 1d—he said he had a pocket full of money, and he did not know which way to spend it fast enough—he then got in conversation with a country carter who had a load of timber—he was having a cup of coffee—the prisoner asked him if he would have another cup—he said, "Thank you, Sir"—I served him—he said, "Fill me another"—I filled him one—he said, "Give that man another one"—I did so—he then took out a pocket book, and said, "I received 40l. yesterday; I have 2l. worth of silver here"—he said to the man, "What wages do you get?"—the man said, "11s. a week"—he then opened the pocket book—it appeared to be in large money—he took out half a crown, handed it over to the man, and said, "Here, my man, take this," and he then left the stall—after he was gone, the man opened his hand and showed me the half crown, and said, "I am glad I pulled up at your stall."
RICHARD BASKET . I am assistant to Mr. Curnock, a butoher, in High-street, Marylebone. On the morning of 11th Dec., the prisoner came to our shop, about 9 o'clock, and bought some mutton, which came to 4s.—he gave me half a sovereign, and I gave him two half crowns and 1s. change—he had some brown paper in his hand at the same time, but what was in it I do not know.
HERBERT WHEELER . (policeman, D 84). On the morning of 11th Dec., I was on duty at the Marylebone station, just before 9 o'clock—as I left the station, I saw the prisoner at the door of Vere's coffee shop, in Marylebone-lane—he called out to me, "Halloo!"—I said, "Halloo, Jack! are you coming home?"—he said, "No"—he lives in the some direction as I do—I left him standing there; he was not carrying any meat at that time.
saw him once that night in Bentinck-street—that was about half past 12 o'clock—I did not see him again till 6 o'clock in the morning—I went my rounds as usual, about every twenty minutes.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about a sweep in Bentinck-street being called by the police? A. I do not—there is a sweep in Little Welbeck-street, on the prisoner's beat—I believe the prisoner called him one morning, and Hall another—I do not know whether there was any dispute between the prisoner and Hall on that subject.
WILLIAM HUNT . (policeman, D 75). On the night of the robbery, I was employed as an extra policeman—I had to patrol a part of the prisoner's beat, among others—I saw him at a quarter to 3 o'clock that morning, in Wigmore-street—I was on duty from 10 till 4 o'clock—I was about there every five or six minutes, sometimes ten minutes might elapse—I did not see him at all till a quarter to 3 o'clock.
HENRY STEVENSON . (policeman, D 290). I was on duty on the night of the robbery, in Wigmore-street—I went on duty at 12 o'clock, and remained till six in the morning; my beat adjoins the prisoner's—I never saw the prisoner that night during the hours of duty—I go my round from every quarter of an hour to twenty minutes—I met him on other nights sometimes—I met him at the corner of Wigmore-street, and Wimpole-street, and sometimes at the corner of Little Welbeck-street.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. I was not.
DAVID SURREY . (policeman, D 305). I was on duty on 11th Dec., from 12 till 6 o'clock in the morning, on the South side of Wigmore-street—my beat adjoins the prisoner's—I saw him about 20 minutes to 3 o'clock that morning—I had not seen him before—he was then with the two sergeants, walking down the street.
GEORGE SMITH PEPPER . (policeman, D 162). I was on duty at the adjoining beat to the prisoner's on the night of the robbery, from 10 till 4 o'clock—I saw the prisoner three times that night at 1 o'clock, again at 3, and again at 4 o'clock—I did not see him between 1 and 3 o'clock—I go round my beat every quarter of an hour.
Cross-examined. Q. The places at which you met him were the places where he ought to have been met, were they not? A. Yes, we often meet—he might have been at a spot where he ought to have been met during the whole of the night, without my necessarily meeting him—we only meet when we happen to come to the same street at the same time—very often we do not meet.
JAMES BENHAM . re-examined. On the morning of 11th Dec., I went out at a back door in our premises, into Eastley's-mews, and there saw a ladder leaning on its side against the next house; if that ladder had been placed against our leads, a person could have got up from the mews on to the leads with perfect ease.
Cross-examined. Q. That ladder had been left there by the men who were at work there? A. Yes, by the plumbers who were at work at the back of the premises.
HENRY ELMORE . I am assistant to Mr. Thompson, a pawnbroker, of Paddington-street. These four duplicates have been issued from our shop—the prisoner pledged two of the things which they refer to—I cannot say who pledged the others, but those two I took in myself—the prisoner has been in the habit of coming to our shop.
Cross-examined. Q. The first date is April, 1856, is it not? A. Yes;
that is for a watch; I am not certain that the prisoner pledged that—it is a waistcoat for 2s., and a coat for 14s. that I speak to and received.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Those are in Nov. last? A. Yes—there is one in Dec., I do not remember taking that in—the ticket is in the writing of the warehouse boy—I do not remember the prisoner being at the shop about that time.
GEORGE MACKERELL . re-examined by MR. SLEIGH. When I was searching the prisoner's room his wife was present—the prisoner said that he could earn plenty of money, and that he could work like a horse—his wife replied, "Yes, and you spend it like an ass."
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Transported for Life.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, January 8th, 1856.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER.; Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB.; Mr. Ald. CUBITT.; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
MR. GIFFARD. conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD ELDERTON . I am a gardener. The deceased Harben Elderton was my son—I saw him at the London Hospital—he was thirty-four years old on 24th last Aug.—I saw him three weeks before his death—he was then quite well and hearty.
CORNELIUS MARTIN . I drive a cab. I knew Harben Elderton, the deceased, for about sixteen years—on Friday, 19th Dec., about half past 2 o'clock in the morning, I was in Whitechapel High-street, opposite the Horse and Leaping-bar public house—the prisoner and the deceased were both there about 12 o'clock, when I went in, and were rowing about a shilling that the prisoner had been robbed of twelve months ago—I saw them come out of the house, and the prisoner told the deceased he would punch his head for the shilling he had been robbed of—the deceased said, "I don't want any row" and the prisoner struck at him—he struck at his head—the deceased had a pipe in his mouth—the prisoner struck at him, and either his fist or his wrist struck the bowl of the pipe—the pipe was broken and fell on the ground—I saw the deceased put his finger in his mouth, take out a little piece of pipe and throw it on the ground, and another piece about two inches in length fell with the bowl—the deceased said the pipe was in his mouth, and he walked away—this was done immediately after they came out of the house—some short time afterwards the deceased came back and made a complaint—I felt his neck, and there was a lump at the back of it.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. How old was the deceased? A. I have known him about sixteen years—his father said he was thirty-four—the prisoner and the deceased were both tipsy—this was from 2 o'clock till half past 2 in the morning—they had been talking very loudly—the prisoner would not have been able to reach to strike the deceased's face—he hit past my shoulder—the pipe the deceased had in his mouth was about twelve inches long—it was a common pipe.
into the London Hospital, and examined him—he complained of pain in the back part of his throat, and on examination I found a small piece of pipe in his tongue—I took it out—he still complained of pain at the back of his throat—I searched, but could find nothing—he was made an out patient, and came again in the morning—I attended the post mortem—the cause of death was the penetration of the carotid artery—that was quite sufficient to cause death.
JOHN LANGDON HAYDON DOWN . I am a surgeon of the London Hospital. I attended the deceased—he died on Tuesday night, 23rd Dec., of haemorrhage, but there was not so much of it externally, the greater part he swallowed—I made a post mortem examination—I found a small opening, about an inch and a half in length, at the back of the tongue—I found in it a large piece of tobacco pipe, four inches and a quarter long—it had passed through the substance of the tongue, and passing obliquely to the left, had entered the internal carotid artery—I have not the slightest doubt that that was the cause of death.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Month.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD STONEMAN . I am a last maker, and live in Gloucester-buildings, Whitecross-street. On 25th Dec., at half past 12 o'clock, I was crossing Holborn to Snow-hill—the prisoner came up to me, and laid hold of my arm—she asked me where I was going, I made her no answer, but attempted to get away, and two other women came and seized me by each of my arms and held me, while the prisoner thrust her hand in my right hand trowsers pocket, where I had a 5s. piece, a half crown, and two shillings—after that, they all three went away up Snow-hill—I missed my money directly they had gone three or four steps—I cried out, "You have robbed me"—the prisoner ran away, and I ran after her, and in so doing I received a blow from each of the other women, one on each side of my head, with their fists—the blows made me reel for the moment, but I kept on running after the prisoner, and cried out, "Police! police!" and the prisoner ran into the policeman's arms at the corner of Fox and Knott-court—I had been drinking, but I was not drunk, I knew what I was doing—I did not give the woman anything—I had nothing to say to her, nor did I see her till she came up—when she spoke to me I tried to get away, and the other two came and laid hold me.
Cross-examined by MR. MACENTEEH. Q. What hour was this? A. About half past 12 o'clock at night—our governor gave us a supper—I had been at it, and after we came out I had been into a public house and had a drop with a shopmate—I cannot say how long I was in the public house, I am not certain about that—I paid for a little drink in the shop and a little in the public house—I did not count my money when I was paying for the drink—I missed my money instantly when the women left me—I put my hand into my pocket and missed my money—I was not aware that the prisoner was robbing me at the time—if I had found my money there, I should not have been aware that she meant to rob me at all.
heard a cry of "Police!" and saw the prisoner running, and the prosecutor after her—I extended my arms, and the prisoner ran into them—the prosecutor appeared to smell of drink, but he was not drunk, he knew what he was about—he walked properly, and gave his account well.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. PLATT. conducted the Prosecution.
BENJAMIN DAVIS . I am a cattle dealer, and live in South Wales. On 11th Dec. I was near the Great Western Railway Hotel—the prisoner came to me, and said, "How are you, my dear?"—I said, "Be off, I want nothing to do with you"—she then came on my right side, another woman came on my left, and a man came at my back, and caught hold of my clothes and the back of my neck—the prisoner opened my waistcoat, and took out my purse from the inside pocket—there was in it 3l. 1s. 6d. or 3l. 2s. 6d.—there were three sovereigns—I saw the money safe in my pocket about an hour before—this is the purse or bag in which my money was—it has two pockets in it—when this had taken place the prisoner ran away, and the others ran another way—I ran after the prisoner, and called, "I have lost my money"—the constable brought her back to me—I recognized her, and said that she was the woman that robbed me—I was as sober as I am now—it had been raining, but was not at that time.
Prisoner. Q. What time did you leave Smithfield-market? A. About 6 or 7 o'clock—I did not walk all that way, I came the best half of it in a bus—I had not been with any female that evening.
WILLIAM BALES . (policeman, D 222). I was on duty in Hyde-parkgardens about 20 minutes past 10 o'clock—I saw the prosecutor—he was sober, and was calling out that he had been robbed—I had seen the prisoner come past me about a minute before, she was running, and had got this handkerchief round her bonnet—I followed her, and brought her back to the prosecutor—he said that she was the person who robbed him—the prisoner said nothing—she was quite out of breath—I went back to the place where I took her; it was about 12 o'clock then, and I found this purse within about two yards of the spot where I apprehended her.
Prisoner. Q. Was it raining? A. Yes, a little.
Prisoners Defence. It is impossible for a man to know me in a dark night in Dec., and he was in liquor; had I been in his company, or in any place with him, and drinking, he might have known me, but I was not; I never was in a place of this kind before; it was in a dark place, and it is impossible for him, seeing me only for a moment, to say, "That is her;" he had a stick in his hand at the time, and why did not he use it to prevent my taking his money.?
GUILTY . Aged 41.— Confined Eighteen Months.
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
GRESHAM CROZIER . I live at No. 24, Westbourne-place, Marylebonne. On Sunday night, 21st Dec., I was in the New-road, and saw the prisoner driving a Hansom cab from the city up towards Edgware-road at full gallop—he was just beyond Marylebonne church—I did not notice any person in the cab when I saw him first—I next saw him run into a four wheel cab—the
Hansom was stopped for a moment by the collision, but it went on again—the prisoner was thrown off, and the cab went on—I helped another man to pick up the prisoner—he was stunned—I next saw the woman lifted out of the cab, and the cab and an omnibus was in collision—I heard a crash, and the next thing I saw was one woman lifted out, and the other was out—this was about 200 yards from where the prisoner was—I afterwards saw that the pole of the omnibus was broken—I did not notice any blood upon it till the next day—I saw the omnibus driver, he had pulled up as close to the kerb as he could, on the right side of the road—the prisoner was drunk—the other cab driver seemed to try to get out of the way—I do not know whether he called to the prisoner—a good many persons did call to him to get out of the way—he did not seem to me to attempt to stop.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. When you first saw the Hansom cab, how far was the four-wheeled cab off? A. Close to it—I did not see the Hansom cab till it was very near the cab it ran against—the four-wheeled cab was near the centre of the road—it had just passed another cab—the effect of the collision between the four wheeled cab and the Hansom cab was to throw the prisoner off the box and stun him, and the cab went on—I had no means of communication with the prisoner till he was thrown off, and I helped to pick him up.
On Sunday night, 21st Dec., I was in the New-road, near Marylebonne church—I saw the prisoner driving a Hansom cab at about ten miles an hour—it wanted about a quarter to 11 o'clock—the horse was galloping—I saw another cab coming towards it—the driver of the other cab hallooed to the prisoner to get out of the way—the other cab man was in the middle of the road—I believe he endeavoured to avoid the Hansom cab—he could not draw on his right side, but he went toward Marylebonne church to make way—he could not come this side, because he had passed another cab—the left hand wheel of the prisoner's cab went over the left wheel of the other cab—it tilted the prisoner's cab on one side, and threw the prisoner into the road, and the horse of the prisoner's cab galloped on without the driver—it ran against an omnibus, which was on the proper side of the road—it was just against the kerb—I did not notice any person inside the prisoner's cab just then—I saw the horse kicking furiously, and the conductor of the omnibus held the horse—I got inside the cab, and there was a young woman lying down on the bottom of the cab—I took her out and laid her on the pavement—she groaned twice when I lifted her up in the cab—when we laid her on the pavement her eyes closed, her bottom jaw dropped, and she died—I helped to take her to the workhouse—there was blood on my right shirt sleeve which came from her when I had hold of her in the cab.
Cross-examined. Q. Was the prisoner stunned when he was knocked off? A. I cannot say—I ran after the cab—it went twenty or thirty yards before it came in contact with the omnibus—the four wheeled cab was in the middle of the road—the other cab man could not come on this side, because another cab was coming the same way—the four wheeled cab had to pass that, so that it was near the middle of the road.
WILLIAM WILSON . I live at No. 4, Newcastle-place, Edgware-road, and am an omnibus driver. On Sunday night, 21st Dec., about a quarter before 11 o'clock, I was just by Marylebonne church—I heard something
coming very fast—I pulled close to the pavement, and as soon as I had done that, I saw a Hansom cab coming, and in a moment I saw it was without a driver—I could see one lady sitting on the off side of the cab—on the other side I saw nobody—the horse was coming at a very furious rate—I was on my right side, close into the pavement—the horse of the cab was in the middle of the road, about twenty or twenty-five yards before he came to me, but he shied off, and I thought he was coming in a direction upon my horse, but just before he came to me his near side wheel took the end of my pole and broke it, and took the harness away from the near side horse, and left the off side horse, which jumped right into the cab—I could not see that the pole came in collision with anybody in the cab—she was in a dark dress, I could not see her—the prisoner came up; he was apparently drunk; I touched him on the shoulder, and warned him not to say too much, as I believed one of the ladies was dead—his answer was that if he had broken his b—neck too, there would have been two of them out of the way—he said more, and made use of very bad language to Mr. Ward—Mr. Ward told me to go to my horses, and take no notice of him.
Cross-examined. Q. You were not aware that the prisoner had been thrown off and stunned? A. I was aware that he had been thrown off.
HENRY DAY . I live at No. 17, Aldermanbury, and am a hawker—I was in York-place, New-road, on 21st Dec., about a quarter before 11 o'clock at night—I saw a Hansom cab going towards Paddington—I saw a man driving it at the rate of ten or twelve miles an hour—I cannot swear to the man who was driving it.
MARK COLLETT . (policeman, 113. D). On 21st Dec., about a quarter before 11 o'clock at night, I was in the New-road—I had a lantern—I saw the accident between the omnibus and the cab—I assisted the persons out of the cab—one was unhurt; the other was dead—I assisted in taking the deceased to the workhouse—I went back and took the prisoner—I told him I was going to take him into custody for causing the death of a female—he said he had no b—woman in his cab, and he held to that—the female who was dead had a slight bruise over her temple, and her dress was torn in front by the pole of the omnibus—I assisted in separating the cab from the omnibus—we were obliged to do that, before we could get the deceased out of the cab—the prisoner was very drunk, and very violent and abusive—he wanted me to allow him to put his horse and harness together again, and said he had no b—woman in his cab—he went with me quietly for some distance, and when we got near the station he became very violent, and showed fight, and said if he had a knife he would rip my b—guts out—with the assistance of another constable, I got him to the station—I asked him if he was the driver of the cab: he said, "Yes."
Cross-examined. Q. Did you tell him about the woman having died? A. Yes, and he said he had no b—woman in his cab—he was not dragged along by the police—I believe one of them laid hold of his hair to prevent him from biting—he said he would go if we would let him see after his horse—I told him the woman was dead—he said, "It is a bad job; I should not have cared if my neck had been broken too."
RICHARD BARTON . (police sergeant, D 3). On the night of 21st Dec. I saw the prisoner, about half past 11 o'clock, in custody of the last witness, near Stingo-lane, in the New-road—his conduct was very violent—he was drunk, and struggled very violently, and tried to getaway—I took hold of his right arm, and he said, "Leave hold of me, and I will walk"—he then threw himself on the ground, and tried to get my right hand to his mouth—I
seized his head, and held it down to the ground—he said he was a b——soldier, and belonged to the Land Transport Corps—he used very bad language, and threw himself down twice in going to the station.
GEORGE PECK . (police sergeant, G 14). I knew Sarah Tydeman, the deceased—she and her sister were on a visit at my house that night, and left me at 10 o'clock—I saw her dead the next day at Marylebone workhouse—I am sure it was her.
SEPTIMUS HENRY WARD . I live in Thornhill-crescent, Barnsbury, and am a warehouseman. I saw the prisoner on the night of 21st Dec.—he used very abusive language, and I heard him repeat five, or six times that he was a soldier—he then said that he was a Crimean soldier, and he said to a bystander that he would shoot him as soon as look at him—he was decidedly intoxicated—I asked him where he took up his fare, and the answer he gave me was that his horse had run away.
WILLIAM HUGHES MANN . I live at No. 23, York-court, and am an upholsterer's porter. On the night of 21st Dec, about a quarter before 11 o'clock, I saw the prisoner sitting on the seat of his cab—he stopped close behind me—his horse's head was towards Paddington—I heard the deceased tell the prisoner, "To the Hyde Park railway arch"—the prisoner inquired where that was—the deceased then said, "I mean the Marble Arch"—the deceased then said, "Drive me to Somers-place, Marble Arch, '" and she inquired of me which was Somers-place—I told her I did not exactly know where that was, but straight on was the way to the Marble Arch—the prisoner then drove off at a furious rate, and whipped his mare several times—I went on further, and in about three minutes I saw the prisoner off his cab, in the road—I stayed with him one or two minutes, and he inquired for his hat and whip, which I told him were up against the wall, on the pavement—he then said, "For God's sake, help me up, for I think I have broken my arm"—I helped him up, with the assistance of another young man, and placed him into a cab, and drove to where the accident happened, which was about forty yards from where he was knocked off—the prisoner there got out of the cab, and took the horse from the conductor of the omnibus—I then helped the deceased to the workhouse—when the constable and the other witness came back, the prisoner was given into custody, for threatening to stab a man—I am sure the prisoner was drunk—he had no opportunity of getting drunk from the time I first saw him till this happened.
Cross-examined. Q. At the time you were being asked questions by this young woman, did not the mare appear to be very fidgety, and was not the driver nearly pitched off? A. He nearly fell back, but the mare was standing quite still—that I swear—I have nothing to do with horses.
MAHALA TYDEMAN . I live at No. 44, Pall-mall. On Sunday night, 21st Dec., I was in company with my sister Sarah, at King's-cross, about half past 10 o'clock; we got into a Hansom cab—I believe the prisoner was the driver; I do not know—I observed that the driver drove from one side of the road to the other; he did not guide the cab at all—he kept falling on the cab, and the cab kept rolling to and fro—that was when he first began to drive—the cab did not stop exactly; I do not think it did; I was very frightened—the prisoner asked us which way we were going, and said he had lately returned from the Crimea—I never answered him at all, but my sister asked a man by the side of the road which was the way to the railway arch—she corrected herself, and said, "To the Marble Arch"—the man told the driver he was going quite right—the driver whipped the horse very
much—it stood on it's hind legs, and darted off—he went very fast, and the cab rocked to and fro—I have no distinct recollection of anything more that took place—T was not hurt when the cab stopped at last.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there a gentleman who called the cab for you when you got in? A. Yes, a little beyond King's-cross—I cannot tell how far we had gone when the cab stopped or went slowly, and the question was asked of the man—I had observed some turning before that, and I wished my sister to get out, but she would not.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you examine her sufficiently to form an opinion that the death had taken place in consequence of the collision that had occurred? A. Yes, and I made a post mortem examination—there was a fracture of the sternum, and the third, fourth, and fifth ribs, and laceration of the liver—the injury was such as might have been inflicted by the collision.
Prisoner's Defence. I have been driving a long time, and never had an accident before, and never had a summons; I was obliged to pull to the off side to pass, and that cab man did the same thing, which threw me off; I will swear I was sober, with the exception of having two glasses of ale, from 6 till half past 10 o'clock; it was a very fidgety horse; as to the cab rolling, all Hansom cabs will roll, they are not fit for a lady to ride in; if it had been a gentleman, he would have caught the reins and stopped the horse in a moment; I have but just come from the Crimea; I had the fever there, and have been very excitable ever since.
GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Twelve Months.
The Session was adjourned until Monday, the 12th, when the Grand Jury re-assembled, and found true bills in the cases of Leopold Redpath and Charles James Comyn Kent, and Pierce, Burgess, and Tester.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, January 13th, Wednesday, 14th, and Thursday, 15th, 1857.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR.; Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Mr. Justice WILLES.; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart, Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN., Knt., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
(For the case of William Pierce, James Burgess, and William George Tester, tried on these days, see Surrey Cases.)
OLD COURT.—Friday, January 16th, 1857.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron MARTIN.; Mr. Justice WILLES.; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY.; Sir FRANCIS GRAHAM MOON., Bart., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. HALE.
Before Mr. Justice Willes and the Third Jury.
231. LEOPOLD REDPATH was indicted for feloniously forging and uttering a certain deed of transfer of a certain share and interest in the capital stock of the Great Northern Railway Company, purporting to be made by John Morriss, for 312l. 10s., consolidated stock, with intent to defraud. Other COUNTS., varying the manner of stating the charge.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE., with MESSRS. BODKIN. and GIFFARD., conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY ATTERBURY . I am a clerk in the employment of the Great Northern Railway Company, and have been so since 1851. I was employed in the audit department—the registration of stock was not in my department until Feb., 1856, when, in consequence of some investigations, I was called in to assist in that department—I produce a transfer, No. 3623, dated 7th May, 1852; it purports to be a transfer of 312l. 10s., consolidated B stock, from John Morriss, of Manningtree, to William Henry Dickson—I believe this signature, "John Morriss," to be in Redpath's writing, and this signature of "Timothy Shaw," the attesting witness, also—(This being read was a transfer of 312l. 10s., consolidated B stock, from John Morriss, of Manningtree, to William Henry Dickson, for the consideration of 364l. 1s. 3d., subject to the same conditions on which the said John Morriss held the same; accepted by William Henry Dickson, and signed by him in the presence of Timothy Shaw, of Manningtree, and by John Morriss, in the presence of W. E. Gascoigne, No. 80, Old Broad-street)—at folio 223, in this register of stock (produced), John Morriss, of Manningtree, is represented as the owner of stock—this O. B. in the first item in the register book, means, "Old book;" it purports to be brought from a former book—it is not in my writing, but in Redpath's—this (produce A. is the old book; I find no entry in it of shares to the credit of Morriss—the entry following that which purports to be brought from the old book, is No. 4340, 1, 250l. B stock, in the prisoner's writing; the next are Nos. 4341, 3, 750l., A stock; 4342, 1, 625l. B stock; 4343, 1, 625l., B stock; and 5870, 1, 750l., A stock, to the credit of the account—the numbers I have mentioned refer to the numbers of the transfers—I have got the book in which the transfers are registered from 4000 to 5000—(the shares had been converted into stock)—the original transfers are pasted into this book after they are made—I find in it the first transfer I mentioned, No. 4340, it belongs to this book, but has been taken out for the purposes of this investigation—the transfers are kept in numbers from the first to the last—they are numbered—No. 4340, is a transfer of 600l., consolidated stock—(MR. SERJEANT PARRY. objected to these items, there being nothing on the face of the transfers to show that the prisoner had anything to do with them. The COURT. considered, that at present it was evidence, and was quite open to be explained hereafter.)
MR. BODKIN. Q. Go to the next item? A. No. 4341, that is a transfer from John Edward Phillips to George Walker, of 25l., consolidated stock—the next is No. 4342, from Barkworth to Sanderson, of 500l., consolidated stock; the next is No. 4343, from the same to the same, of 1, 200l., consolidated stock; the next is No. 5870, from Cothard and another, as executors
of Joseph Cothard, to Augustus Balls, of 250l. stock merely—Mr. Morriss's account in the stock book amounts to 5, 500l. A, and 5, 750l. B stock; that is all on the credit side of the account—these (produced) are the transfers that have been made of that stock, as they appear on the debit side of the account—the first is No. 3540, a transfer of 437l. 10s., from Morriss to William Henry Mote, in the writing of a clerk named Corfield; the name of Morriss is to it in Redpath's writing—I take that both from the book and the transfer—the next is No. 3540, May 7th, 1852; here is the signature of Morriss to it, and of Timothy Shaw, of Manningtree, as attesting witness; both those signatures are in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 3573, from Morriss to John William Broadhurst, on 7th May, 1852, for 125l., consolidated stock; the subscribing witness is Timothy Shaw, of Manningtree; his signature and Morriss's are both in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 3591, from John Morriss to George Wythes, 7th May, 1852, for 50l., subscribing witness, Timothy Shaw, of Manningtree; both the signatures are in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 3609, May 7th, 1852, from Morriss to Bennett Pell, for 287l. 10s. B stock, with the same witness; both those signatures are, to my belief, Redpath's writing—the next is No. 3823, already described—the next is No. 3663, from Morriss to Hardwick, 7th May, 1852, for 37l. 10s., witness, Timothy Shaw; the signatures of Morriss and Shaw are, to my belief, in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 5681, from Morriss to Hudson, and Robert John Harvey, for 1, 250l., B stock, 16th Sept., 1852; George Sidney, of Edward-street, Hampstead-road, purports to be the attesting witness; that signature, and Morriss's also, are in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 5697, for 2, 500l., consolidated A stock, from Morriss to Marriott; George Sidney purports to be the subscribing witness; I believe those signatures to be in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 5713, 75l., A consolidated stock, 30th Sept., 1852, from Morriss to Pearce; the attesting witness is George Sidney; that, as well as the signature of Morriss, is in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 5756, from Morriss to Seager, on 30th Sept, 1852, for 200l., consolidated A stock; the attesting witness is George Sidney; that, as well as the name of Morriss, is, to my belief, in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 5756, from Morriss to Figgins, 30th Sept., 1852, for 62l. 10s., consolidated A stock.
COURT. Q. Are you giving us the debit side? A. Yes—I have given the full credit side; there is consolidated A stock there—the 1, 250l. is B stock—the next is A stock, and the next is B stock; they are all consolidated—there is no difference between B stock, and consolidated A stock.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Is No. 6109 the next? A. Yes; that is a transfer of 1, 625l. consolidated B stock, dated 14th Oct., 1852, from Morriss and another to Corrie and another—John Morriss's signature is witnessed by Stephen George Hammond—the name of Morriss is in Redpath's writing, and I believe that of Hammond to be Redpath's also—the next is No. 6386, 125l. A stock, from Morriss to Parlby, 30th Sept., 1852; the subscribing witness is George Sidney—I believe those signatures to be Redpath's writing—the next is No. 6389, from Morriss to Parlby, of 750l. A stock, 30th Sept, 1852; the subscribing witness is George Sidney; both of those signatures I believe to be in Redpath's writing—the next is No. 6543, from Morriss to Ferraton, of 1, 000l. B stock, blank day of Nov., 1852, witness, George Sidney; those signatures are, in my belief, the prisoner's writing—the next is No. 6553, from Morriss to Bunham, of 625l. B stock, blank day of Nov., 1852; attesting witness, George Sidney—I say the same of those two signatures—the next is No. 6700 from Morriss to Figgins, of
l, 750l. A stock, 4th Dec., 1852, witness George Sidney—I have the same belief of those signatures—the next is No. 6711, from Morriss to Fordham, of 37l. 10s. A stock, 21st Nov., 1852; the subscribing witness is George Sidney—I have the same belief as to those signatures—that is all that appears on the debit side of the account, 5, 500l—they balance one another—these others (produced) are transfers of similar stock from Morriss.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are they referred to in Morriss's account? A. They do not appear in the ledger, not to the debit of Morriss's account—(MR. SERJEANT PARRY. submitted that these were not evidence, not being referred to in the account. MR. BODKIN. stated that he was going to give evidence as to the handwriting of them. The COURT. admitted them as evidence of the prisoner's intention. MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. stated that the transfer was of A stocky and that this evidence related to B stock.)
COURT. Q. Are these two different accounts? A. Yes; in two different columns—(MR. T. ATKINSON. stated that the B stock would receive 6l. per cent. before the A stock received anything. The COURT. considered that that was merely a question of interest, and would make no difference.)
MR. BODKIN. Q. How many are there? A. Nine—they all purport to be transfers of A and B stock, by Mr. Morriss, and I believe the signature of Morriss in all these documents to be in Redpath's writing—it is not the same attesting witness to them all, but whatever the names are, I believe them to be in Redpath's writing—they are different dates, Jan., Feb., and May, 1853.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (with MR. TINDAL ATKINSON.). Q. How long has this A and B stock been in existence? A. I believe it was about 1851, but am not prepared to say; there are other witnesses who can tell you better—there was previous to that a share ledger, that is here as relates to Morriss—I call the book in which Morriss's account is entered, the stock register—we keep a book called a register of transfers—I believe it has been kept from the commencement—I have not been referring to any share book—that book is here—I have understood that it is incumbent upon us by Act of Parliament to keep such a book—I have been in the registry office since Feb., 1856—Redpath was at the head of the office—he was the Registrar under the Company—I was lent by Mr. Reynolds to Mr. Redpath—I do not know whether Mr. Reynolds is here—he is the accountant—there were six other clerks in the registrar's office besides myself—some of them have been there for many years, and all of them longer than me—I have not been directed by the authorities of the railway to be called as a witness, because I know less about these matters than any other clerk in the office—I will swear that it is not so—there are other clerks who have been many years in that office—this 197 B refers to the register of B shares—the greater part of it is in Redpath's writing—this book is the share register—there is one other book in which A and B shares are entered—this relates to B shares only, not stock, but shares—there is an original share book—this is one of the original share books—this is founded on the original share book, but not posted from it—I have not kept this book—I have examined the old books for the purposes of this inquiry—I have never kept them—I believe Redpath kept this book, but am not in a position to swear it—it was before my time—this is what I call an original share book—I will venture to swear that the signatures of Morriss and Timothy Shaw on this transfer are by the same person—I have sworn to all these documents without hesitation—I swear that each of these signatures, from No. 3540 down to No. 6711 are in Redpath's writing, undoubtedly—I have not the shadow
of a shade of a doubt—I have seen him write many times—I cannot tell you how many—I have looked over him when writing—I have only had an opportunity of seeing his writing within the last twelve months, all these transfers are in 1852 and 1853—I had not seen Redpath write at that time—it was after February that I first saw him write—I cannot say how often since—I have taken a great many documents into his room, and have seen him write a great many—I do not swear to this Stephen George Hammond being Redpath's, I state that I believe it to be Hammond's genuine signature—I believe Hammond is here—there are three attesting witnesses, Hammond, Sidney, and Shaw, and of those three signatures I swear to two—I believe that this is Hammond's writing as an attesting witness to one of these documents—there have been mistakes made, I have no doubt, in the books, in reference to transfers in the hurry of business—I never omitted to enter a transfer in the name of the vendor, nor in the name of the purchaser—other clerks may have done so, I cannot state positively—I know more of the registry office since I have been there than the other clerks—I have been through the transfer book to about No. 18, 000 odd, or 19, 000.
Q. Are you aware of this law, "The said deed of transfer shall be delivered to the secretary, and be kept by him, and the secretary shall enter a memorial thereof in a book to be called the Register of Transfers, and endorse such entry on the deed of transfer, and shall on demand deliver a new certificate to the purchaser?" A. I have heard of it—there is such a transfer book at the Great Northern Railway—Mr. Mowatt is the secretary—the book is kept in the registry office, the office in which this has occurred—this transfer is endorsed with a corresponding number in the transfer register—none of these transfers are endorsed by the secretary; they are numbered according to the number in the register of transfers—my initials were placed at the back of these as having taken them out—I have examined 18, 000 transfers; up to the present time there are about 22, 000—there are not as many as 40, 000—we have five different kinds of stock, besides the A and B stock; they are original 25l. stock, part of these shares were converted into the A and B stock; 5 per cent perpetual preference, 5 per cent, redeemable preference, that is redeemable at 10 per cent, 4 1/2 per cent. preference stock, and 5 per cent preference stock, redeemable at 5 per cent.
Q. As regards these transfers, has the secretary ever endorsed them according to the instructions of this Act of Parliament to your knowledge? A. I believe not—he has never written his name on them—when a transfer is made, it is generally sent to the company, either by the broker of the vendor, or of the purchaser—as soon as it is received in the office, it is entered in the transfer receipt book—all these transfers are undoubtedly entered in the transfer receipt book, otherwise they would not have that number—there are no other books in which they are entered, only the ledgers—the transfer is entered in the transfer receipt book by whoever attends to the post—it is not the duty of the party who receives a transfer of stock, to see that there is that stock.
Q. Do you mean to tell me that you conduct business so loosely that if a transfer of 2, 500l. stock comes to your office, to the proper office, that you do not verify, and see whether that stock is in existence? A. Undoubtedly we do; but you asked me if the party who received the transfer did so—somebody does undoubtedly verify—all these transfers are entered in the transfer receipt book, and it is the duty of some person to verify the stock—the
transferees of these documents have all been receiving dividends from the company since 1852—I have never speculated in stock—I do not know whether any of the directors of the company are present—I know Mr. Graham Hutchinson by name, and also by sight—I know Mr. Parker, and Mr. Arbouin the chairman of the finance committee, Mr. Dennison the chairman of the company, and Mr. Reynolds the accountant; he is still in the employment of the company—these gentlemen are still directors.
Q. Do you not know that all those gentlemen have held stock in fictitious names in the Great Northern Railway? A. I do not know that; I know they have held stock—I do not know that all those gentlemen have held stock in fictitious names in the Great Northern Railway—I know that some of them have held stock in different names to their own—I do not know that some of them have held stock in one, two, or three different names to their own, I will swear that, I have never lent my name to a director—I did not know that a great many of the officers of the company speculated in shares—I mean to say that I have only found since I have been through the books, that several of the officers have held stock at different times—I do not know of several of the officers holding stock in Other names than their own—I came from Mr. Reynolds's office in Jan. or Feb.
Q. Have you borrowed mosey from Mr. Redpath? A. Never but on one occasion; I will swear that, I owe it him now—it is 15l.—I have not paid him—I shall do so whenever it is wanted—I have never borrowed money from him but that once—that was in July, last year—I do not know whether Mr. Reynolds, the accountant, has ever borrowed money of Mr. Redpath—I do not know whether he is here—I do not know that he has borrowed to the extent of 12, 000l. from Mr. Redpath; I never was in a position to know—I do not know whether Mr. Reynolds is a name in which shares have been held not belonging to him—I do not know that the chairman has held shares in that name; I had no means of knowing—I find Mr. Reynolds's name in the books of the company, not to the extent of 100, 000l., nor 50, 000l. to my knowledge; I might turn to the account and see—I do not know that they were Mr. Dennison's shares; I never was in a position to know—Mr. Redpath was at one time a bon✗ fide shareholder—Mr. Clark was the registrar in 1852—Mr. Redpath was at that time in the registration office as a ledger clerk; his duty was principally with the ledgers.
Q. The stamp that is on each of these transfers would be put by Mr. Clark, the registrar? A. I do not know who it would be put by—I cannot answer whether it was his duty to do it—it would be put by some one in the office—every transfer ought to go through the registrar's hands; whether they did so or not I do not know—they are all entered in the receipt book—the registrar might see that day by day—I do not know whether he would; it is not for me to say; I really do not know.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Who is the Mr. Hammond whose name has been mentioned? A. He was formerly, I believe, a friend of Mr. Redpath's—he did not hold any office in the company—I have seen him in Redpath's company on several occasions—I should suppose his age is about twenty-five—the party posting the transfer into the stock ledger, would look to the stock to see that there was the stock which it was proposed to transfer—if in the present case any person had looked, they would have apparently found stock standing in the name of Morriss—the prisoner's salary was 250l. a year—the 15l. that I borrowed of him was for family use—it was not in advance
of my salary; it was a private loan—I intended paying it back by my overtime—he has never asked me for it.
COURT. Q. At what time was it that Redpath was a shareholder? A. He was a shareholder in these stock ledgers, and also in the previous share ledgers, but he has oversold his accounts in all cases.
JOHN CORKILL . I am a clerk in the employment of the Great Northern Railway Company, and have been so about eight years. I have had opportunities of observing Redpath's handwriting, and seeing him write, a great many times—I believe the signature of Morriss to these transfers to be Mr. Redpath's writing—I have looked at the whole of them—I believe the signature of Morriss to this No. 3623 to be Mr. Redpath's, and the signature of Timothy Shaw, the attesting witness, is the same handwriting.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you aware, at any time, of mistakes having been made, in the omission sometimes of the vendor's name, and the purchaser's, when transfers have taken place? A. No, I am not—I believe that the names of Morriss and Shaw are written by one and the same person.
Q. Just look at the stamp on the transfer; is that the stamp of Mr. Clark, who was the registrar at that time? A. There is a brand; that is the brand that was used in the office—it is stamped before it is entered in the receipt book—the seller, or his broker, sends the stock into the office, and leaves it there, and then the brand is used, to satisfy the buyer that the stock is there—I do not mean the transfer is left, but the stock, very likely William Henry Dixon is not satisfied, that the stock is in the office, and then we represent on the stock exchange that the stock is there—I am speaking with regard to the transfer—the seller sends the transfer to the office, and we stamp it to satisfy the buyer that the stock is there—the broker generally sends it—we then issue a certificate to the buyer—that is not signed by the secretary; there is a brand with the secretary's name that is used, and that is signed by the registrar—it does not go to the secretary's office; I mean that a brand is put on, with the signature of the secretary; it does not go into the secretary's office—that has never been the practice—the brand containing the secretary's name was not in the secretary's office, nor under his control—any one in the registration department might put the brand—a certificate is not available unless it has the secretary's name on it—I believe it has no value without the secretary's name—the name of the secretary is stamped with a brand, the secretary himself not doing anything to verify the stock or the transfer—I have never speculated in stock—(MR. JUSTICE WILLES. stated that, by the 11th section of the company's Act, it did not appear that the signature of the secretary was requisite, except for the purposes of the office; he was merely an attesting witness to the common seal)—the transfer is not endorsed by the secretary.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. It is endorsed by the number, is it not? A. Yes—the number is entered in the receipt book.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Is that by the secretary? A. No.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. by the number can it be traced? A. Yes; at least it ought to be—7707 is the number of the transfer—if we looked to Morriss's account, and looked at the credit side, we should find "7707"—I was not in the registration office before Mr. Redpath came there—I assisted as an occasional clerk during the time of the London and York, before the amalgamation of the two companies—I have not been in their service ever since; I have been occasionally engaged for three years after that time.
WILLIAM ELKANAN GASCOIGNE . I am a clerk to Messrs. Williams and Son, of No. 80, Broad-street, members of the Stock Exchange. I was attesting witness to the signature of Mr. William Henry Dixon, the vendee to this transfer, No. 3623, purporting to be executed by John Morriss, of Manningtree—I paid over to the transferor a sum of 366l. 1s. 3d. on account of that transfer—I paid that to Messrs. Field and Co., stock brokers.
HENRY JAMES WOOD . I am clerk to Messrs. Field, Son, and Wood, stock brokers—they have been stock brokers to Mr. Redpath for some years. This transfer, No. 3623 was a transfer made on account of Mr. Redpath—the money was received by us and paid to his credit.
Cross-examined. Q. Did Mr. Redpath speculate largely on the Stock Exchange? A. Yes, for a period of about eight years, I think—he speculated in various descriptions of stock other than the Great Northern stock—his speculations extended to some thousands; perhaps it might have been hundreds of thousands in the course of the eight years; that is a large amount of stock to say—it was to a very large amount—he has speculated in one year to the extent of 50, 000l.—I should think not to the extent of 100, 000l., but beyond 50, 000, I should say—he speculated in the Great Indian Peninsular Railway; I do not think he made a large sum out of that; he made money, not as much at 10, 000l., nor 7, 000l.; some hundreds it was certainly confined to hundreds—I never remember his buying in 15, 000 shares at 5s., which he sold out at 4l. 10s.; I never heard it; he had some 800 open at one time, but nothing of that sort.
THOMAS MORRISS . I reside at Wix, by Manningtree, in the county of Essex—I have lived there seven years last Michaelmas—I never heard of any person named John Morriss living there—I never had any stock or shares in the Great Northern Railway.
Cross-examined. Q. How far from Manningtree do you live? A. About four miles—there are about 1, 100 persons living at Manningtree.
WILLIAM RAYNER . I have resided at Manningtree, in the county of Essex, for the last seventeen years—I was the postmaster of Manningtree during the year 1852; I was also assistant clerk to the Magistrates, clerk to the commissioners of taxes, and registrar of births, deaths, and marriages for the division within which Manningtree is—I did not know of any such persons as John Morriss or Timothy Shaw in 1852 at Manningtree—if there had been such persons there, I think I must have known it.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know everybody in Manningtree? A. I believe I do—I will not, of course, swear that I do—perhaps I do not altogether; there are about 1, 000 persons living there—I should think there are not fifty persons that I do not know, I would not swear there are not 100.
THOMAS WILLIAM COUNT . I have resided for nearly eight years at Manningtree—I was overseer from April, 1852, to April, 1853; I likewise collected the poor's rates that year—I do not know any person named John Morriss at Manningtree, or any person named Shaw—I never heard of either of such persons.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know everybody at Manningtree? A. I believe I do.
Before Mr. Baron Martin.
232. LEOPOLD REDPATH . was again indicted, with CHARLES JAMES COMYN KENT , for feloniously forging and uttering a transfer of 1, 000l., B stock and 87l. B stock of the Great Northern Railway Company; their masters, with intent to defraud.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE., with MESSRS. BODKIN. and GIFFARD., conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY ATTERBURY . I am a clerk in the audit office of the Great Northern Railway, and have been lately attending to the registrar's department. I produce a transfer No. 16774, purporting to be of 1, 087l. 10s. B stock, from Stephen George Hammond, to George Sidney, dated 10th Feb., 1855—the signature Stephen George Hammond is in full, and is in Redpath's writing; it is not witnessed at all—the attesting witness to Sidney's signature is Charles Kent—that is in the writing of the prisoner Kent—I produce the stock register No. 22, at folio 133 I find an account of George Sidney's in the writing of a clerk named Corfield—he is described as of No. 20, Edward-street, Hampstead-road, gentleman—his account here is credited with the amount mentioned in the transfer I have spoken of—I have got the stock register No. 119—at folio 153 I find an account of Stephen George Hammond, of Church-street, Chipping Norton; but a line is drawn through the address, and it is altered to Barge-yard, Bucklersbury—that account is debited with the same amount—the entry of the transfer is in Freeman's writing, a clerk in the registry office—I produce the original transfer which came into the office on 10th Feb., 1855—Hammond's account was then balanced—there was no dividend coming to him, and Sidney had oversold his account to the extent of 2, 315l.—that reduced the overplus to 1, 227l. 10s.—the total amount of A stock from Sidney is 7, 625l., and of B stock 5, 525l., as by the books, but there are other transfers—here is a transfer, No. 19259, purporting to be from Leopold Redpath, of Chester-terrace, to the Rev. Robert Spranger, of 92l. 10s. five percent pre-ference shares, redeemable at five per cent.—there is no other five per cent. preference stock except that—the date is 15th Nov., 1855—the signature of Spranger is in Redpath's writing, and is witnessed by Charles Kent, in Kent's writing—here is another transfer, No. 19585, from the same to the same, of 7l. 10s. in the same stock—the signature of Spranger is in Redpath's writing; there is no attesting witness to that. (The COURT. considered that, after the verdict in the last case, any evidence affecting Redpath alone ought not to be given, as it could only affect Kent by way of prejudice; the last transfer must therefore be struck out.)
Q. Look at No. 19298; what is the date? A. 6th Nov., 1855—that is a transfer of 95l. five per cent. preference shares of 7l. 10s. each, making 712l. 10s. from Spranger to Wedgwood—the signature of Spranger is in Redpath's writing, and is witnessed by Charles Kent in Kent's writing—No. 19211 is a transfer from Spranger to Deane of 22l. 10s. on 27th Nov., 1855—the name of Spranger is in Redpath's writing, and the attesting witness is Charles Kent, in Kent's writing—No. 19212 is a transfer from Spranger to Proctor of 7l. 10s. on 27th Nov., 1855—the signature of Spranger is in Redpath's writing—the attesting witness is Charles Kent, and the signature is in Kent's writing—No. 19470 is a transfer from Spranger to Jordan of 7l. 10s. on 30th Nov., 1855—the signature of Spranger is in Redpath's writing—the attesting witness is Charles Kent, that signature is in Kent's writing.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. (with MR. THOMPSON. for Kent.) Q. Is Hammond here? A. I believe he is, I have seen him here this morning—these two transfers, Nos. 16774 and 16775, were cut out of some book—the two being pasted on one guard, we were obliged to take
the two out—they were not in the transfer book this morning—the transfer No. 16774 is the subject of this indictment—No. 16775 is annexed to it—those two papers were taken from the transfer book on the 7th of the present month by me—before the Magistrate the books themselves were produced—the books are here—the two documents were taken out because they were both pasted on one guard, and I could not take the one Without destroying the validity of the other—my attention was not particularly directed to the other document—I will swear that—I did not know what it was—I do not know that Mr. Redpath had a great deal of stock standing in different persons names—I swear that—I knew that he had stock standing in his own name—I did not know that he had stock standing in the name of Sidney—I did not know that there was such a name until I commenced the examination—these documents are cut out of a guard book—they are pasted into that book—I have gone through the transfers up to about No. 19000—there are forty-nine transfers of Sidney's in the books, thirty-three of one sort—all the signatures of Sidney's are in the same handwriting—I believe those signatures are not attested by fifteen or sixteen different persons—(referring to the books) here is one, No. 16776, attested by S. G. Hammond—I believe that is the person whose name has been referred to—I could not say whether this is Hammond's writing—I do not know his handwriting well, not sufficiently well to be certain—I never saw him write—I believe it may be his, but I would not undertake to swear one way or the other—I cannot tell without going through the transfers, how many other attestations there are by Hammond—it will oocupy some time to do it—I never attested a signature—there are not clerks in the service of the Company who have attested the same signature—I never heard until this morning that there had been any forged signatures of Spranger's which Kent had attested—(MR. SERJEANT PARRY here stated, that as regarded Redpath, he should entirely abstain from any further examination of the witnesses, the COURT. having intimated an opinion that the evidence should be confined to matter relating to the case of Kent. MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. stated that he would proceed as if Kent alone were on his trial)—it may save time if I say that there are three entries at the commencement of this account, purporting to be to the debit of this account which do not in any way relate to Sidney's account—No. 17067 is a transfer from Rames to Wetherell and others.
Q. Are there not at least thirty-three different transfers, purporting to be executed by George Sidney, in the same handwriting? A. There are in the books thirty-three transfers, but they are not all Sidney's—No. 17067 is a transfer that does not in any way relate to Sidney's account—the transfer number appears in his account; it is Rames to Wetherell—No. 16764 is the first to the debit of the account; the attesting witness there is Stephen George Hammond—the next is No. 16769, that is witnessed by S. G. Hammond—No. 16770 is the next, that is Hammond's—I have not gone through these transfers for the purpose of seeing who the attesting witnesses are—I was asked this question a month ago, but I did not know that I should be called upon—No. 16731 is witnessed by S. G. Hammond—No. 492 is witnessed by Redpath—No. 916, 917, 574, 545, 610, 623, and 1073, are all witnessed by Redpath—No. 16777 is attested by Cork ill; that is the witness who was examined in the last case—that is a transfer from Sidney—No. 2018 is witnessed by Corkill—No. 2257 is witnessed by Redpath—Nos. 2484 and 2485 are each witnessed by Redpath and also Nos. 2550, 2571, and 2643—(The witness was requested to furnish the particulars of the remaining transfers before the dose of the case)—I do not know that holders of stock in the Great Northern hold it in a great many different names.
Q. Has it not been a matter of common talk in the office? A. Only with regard to one or two—with regard to one or two of the directors of the railway—I only know from what I have heard in the office, that Mr. Graham Hutchinson is the owner of 100, 000l. of stock in different names—I was repeatedly called on to register the transfers—I never registered any transfer from or to Sidney—the principal of that account is in Redpath's handwriting—prior to Redpath's being appointed registrar, he was the clerk whose duty it was to enter the transfers—I am told so; I do not know it of my own knowledge—apparently from the books, Redpath was the owner of a considerable quantity of stock—I had never heard the name of Sidney mentioned in the office until I called attention to it; I cannot tell how long that is ago—it was after I had began the examination of the A and B stock; some time in the course of last summer—I have never posted one transfer purporting to be signed George Sidney—I have been in the service of the company since 1851—Redpath was the principal registrar—I cannot say what Kent was when I went there; I did not pay any particular attention; I do not know—he was undoubtedly under Mr. Redpath—I do not know what his salary was—I had no means of knowing—I only know he was a clerk in the office—I know Hammond by sight only—he was occasionally at the offices of the company; not frequently—he was not a clerk there—the occasions upon which I have Been him have been when he has come into the registration office to see Mr. Redpath—I believe he was a friend of Mr. Redpath's; he used to come and ask for Mr. Redpath—I heard of these transfers signed Spranger, before this morning; some time when the examination was going on at Clerkenwell—there was no transfer purporting to be signed by Spranger, produced at Clerkenwell—I believe none was produced with reference to this prosecution until this morning—I pointed out Spranger's transfer to the officials at the office after I had been to Clerkenwell—I pointed them out to Mr. Oakley, and Mr. Brenny, and other clerks in the office—I had no reluctance to produce our documents at Clerkenwell—I heard objections made to their production—I had a request made to me to fetch those documents, and it was refused on the part of the prosecution—I really had no power in it—as far as I know, this is the first time Kent has had the opportunity of knowing the name of the attesting witnesses to these transfers—I cannot say whether they were studiously kept back from him at Clerkenwell—when the documents were asked for, it was said on the part of the prosecution, "They shall not be fetched;" I said there would be no difficulty in fetching them, because they were within five minutes of the place—there would have been no difficulty—I believe the observation was made that the only object of wanting the transfers, was to know the names of the other gentlemen who had attested the documents—after that, the prosecution refused to produce them—I have never attested any transfers, not on any occasion, either genuine or otherwise—I know nothing at all about the practice of the office with regard to the attestation—I cannot tell whether it is the practice to have a great number of them attested at the same time, or whether it frequently happens that clerks are asked to attest genuine documents which they have never seen signed at all—I have never been in a stockbroker's office—Kent was considered a respectable young man at the office, and very attentive to his duties—I knew where he lived—he has been recently
married; about eighteen months—he was living in a little cottage near Islington—he moved from there to one in Camden-town, a less expensive place—from all the opportunity I had of observing him, he appeared a steady, attentive young man—I believe he was a very great favourite with all the officials; he was with his fellow clerks—I do not know of my own knowledge that on one occasion he had a gratuity presented to him for good conduct and attention.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you go through these accounts before the parties were taken into custody? A. I did; that is, with regard to the A and B stock—I went through Sidney's account—I stated both to Redpath and Kent what I had found with respect to Sidney's account—the Company's advisers were asked before the Magistrate to produce all the books and accounts of the Company from the year 1850; Mr. Giffard, the counsel for the prosecution, answered that he would produce all documents relating to the charge, but he must decline doing so as to any other.
STEPHEN GEORGE HAMMOND . I live at No. 46, Gower-place, Eustonsquare. I am not in any business or profession—I am twenty years of age—I am no relation of Mr. Redpath's—I have lived at his house on and off for about two or three years—this transfer, No. 16774, purporting to be a transfer from me to Sidney, is not in my handwriting—I do not know anything of that transfer—I never put any money into the Great Northern Railway Company—I did not receive any money for this transfer—I was educated by Mr. Redpath for two years.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. Do you mean to say that you did not know there was stock standing in your name? A. I knew stock was in my name—he has told me that he had put stock in my name—he has told me that on several occasions.
Q. Has he told you also that he had stock standing in the name of Sidney? A. I saw a transfer in the name of Sidney—I saw the signature of Sidney, and I happened to say something about the likeness of the handwriting—he told me that he had stock standing in the name of Sidney—I do not remember his telling me so on more than one occasion—I could not swear that he did not tell me so on half a dozen different occasions—I have been asked to execute transfers—I have not refused to do so—I do not remember Mr. Redpath ever telling me that he had signed transfers in my name—I could not swear he has not—I would not swear that he has not told me so a dozen times—if he had, I think I should have remembered it—I could not say—I could not say he has not told me so a dozen times—I do not remember his ever telling me at all—I could not say that he has not told me a dozen times that he has signed transfers in my name—I was frequently at the offices of the Great Northern Railway—I used to go in to see Mr. Redpath—it might have been about stock or shares, it was not always—I do not remember exactly whether it was generally—I did not generally go there to see him about stock or shares particularly—I have been to see him about stock, but not always—I could not swear whether I had been there 100 times to see him about stock—I could not swear to how many times I have been there—I was not a speculator in stock—I had some shares given me by Mr. Redpath, not in the Great Northern, it was in a mining Company—I had no means of subsistence at all myself—Mr. Redpath partly brought me up, and educated me—he educated me from 1850 to 1852—I was in a mining office after that, the one I had the shares in—I was not a promoter or director, I was a clerk.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Have you been to see Mr. Redpath since
he has been in Newgate? A. No—I have not seen his attorney or his clerk—I have had no communication with Mr. Redpath or his attorney since he has been committed—I have seen them in Court, but had no communication with them—I have not been talking to them—I have not been subpœnaed by them, but by Mr. Humphreys.
ROBERT MAYMAN . I have for the last twelve years lived at No. 20, Edward-street, Hampstead-road—there is no other No. 20, in that street, to my knowledge—no person named George Sidney has lived there since I have lived there—Red path lived there eight or nine years ago.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. Do yon know Hammond? A. I have some little knowledge of him—I saw him there once, but he did not live there—I believe he used to visit Mr. Redpath.
THE REV. ROBERT JEFFREYS SPRANGER . I am a Clergyman of the Church of England. I live at Hursley—my father's name was Robert Spranger—he lived at Tointon, in Lincolnshire—I have no stock in the Great Northern Railway—my father died in Feb. 1850.
JAMES RYDER MOWATT . I am secretary to the Great Northern Railway Company. Redpath was originally a clerk in the registration department, and on the retirement of Mr. Clark, about three years ago, having been chief clerk and book keeper, he was appointed to succeed him—while he was principal clerk to Mr. Clark the entry of the transfer of shares was, I believe, chiefly his duty—Kent was in those days second clerk in the office, acting in concert with Redpath—since Redpath has been at the head of the office, Kent has been chief clerk, next to him—during any temporary absence of Redpath, it was Kent's duty to superintend the business of that department.
Cross-examined by MR. HAWKINS. Q. How many clerks are there in the same office? A. I think lately there were altogether five; they were, Redpath, Kent, Corkill, Freeman, and Flemming—I do not know where Redpath lived latterly—I was never on visiting terms with him—I never saw him lately out of the office—I do not know that the Directors were on visiting terms with him—I mean to swear that; I am here on a serious occasion, I will give yon all you choose to ask me on any subject whatever—Kent has been in the office for, I believe, seven or eight years, and, considering he was a youngster, his conduct has during the whole of that time been uniformly good; it was sometimes necessary to give him some good advice, and, being an old one, I took the liberty of giving it to him—his conduct was tolerably good—I have not actually given him a gratuity for good services—one was presented under peculiar circumstances.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What were the circumstances? A. It was considered, some four or five years ago, that it would be desirable to try and encourage good conduct among the servants generally, by giving a per centage on the amount of dividend, and, with the concurrence of the proprietors, that was done to all the servants indiscriminately, who had a certain amount of salary, on a certain day, and he was included with them.
MR. HAWKINS. Q. Did you know that Redpath was living in considerable style in the Regent's-park? A. No more than you did—I have heard of it—I only knew rather lately that he was the owner of a considerable amount of stock.
Cross-examined by MR. TINDAL ATKINSON. Q. Is Redpath a bankrupt? A. Yes—I have been appointed assignee of the estate—I believe it has been valued by the official assignee—I really do not know the amount(The attestation to the transfer was here read, as follows:" Signed, sealed, and
delivered by the above named George Sidney, in the presence of Charles Kent, King's Cross.")
MR. HAWKINS. to STEPHEN GEORGE HAMMOND. Q. Just take that in your hand (transfer. No. 14769); is that your writing? A. Yes—Nos. 14770 and 16776 are mine also. (Kent received a most excellent character).
REDPATH.— GUILTY .— Transported for Life.
KENT.— NOT GUILTY .
There were three other indictments against Kent, upon which no evidence being offered, an acquittal was taken: there were also other indictments against Redpath.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. DOYLE. conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY GILES . I am assistant to James Stephen Grove, in High-street, Stratford. On 18th Dec. I saw the prisoner pull down a pair of trowsers which were hanging in the doorway, and go away with them under his arm—I pursued him—he saw me, and threw them away behind an archway—I caught him, and gave him into custody—these are the trowsers (produced).
Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. What time was this? A. About 5 o'clock in the afternoon, it was not dark, we had the gas alight—I actually saw the prisoner pull the trowsers down, I was near the doorway—the prisoner was sober when I caught him, he afterwards pretended to be drunk, and had to be taken on a stretcher to the station.
THOMAS ADDINGTON .(policeman, K. 189). The prisoner was given into my charge by Giles—I believe he had been drinking a little, but he pretended to be quite drunk and senseless, he threw himself down and refused to move, and we got a stretcher and took him to the station, he was very violent.
GUILTY .** Aged 17.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
SARAH MALLEY . I reside with my mother, Amy Malley, a haberdasher, in Francis-street, Woolwich. On Monday, 22nd Dec., I missed a case of combs from the counter at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, I had seen them safe at half past 10—these are them (produced), they have my own mark on them—they are worth 3l., they are not nearly all here.
FREDERICK WILLIAM COOPER . (policeman, R. 119). I produce the combs—the prisoner was hawking them about on 23rd Dec.—he went to some gentleman's house at Old Charlton, and after he had left they missed a goose, which was found in the possession of a woman who lives with his father—he was discharged as to that—I examined the basket he had, and
found these combs in it—in consequence of information, I took them to the prosecutrix's shop, and the last witness identified them.
GUILTY.** Aged 14.— Judgment Respited.
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.
JOSEPH DISTNELL . On Friday, 17th Oct., the prisoner and a woman came to my shop and wished to see some low priced boy's cord trowsers—I showed them some, and they selected one pair at 3s. 4d., and one pair at 4s. 6d., which came to 8s.—the prisoner gave me eight single shillings, from his pocket, and they went away—they came back in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, and brought back the pair at 3s. 6d., keeping the pair at 4s. 6d., and I returned the 3s. 6d—they bought a cotton handkerchief for 1s., which the woman paid for, and they went away—they came back again in about the same time, and purchased a boy's shirt, which came to 1s. 8d., and the prisoner gave me half a crown, I gave him 4d. and 6d. in change—they came back again in about the same time, and bought a pair of boy's stockings, which came to 5 1/2 d. or 6d.—the prisoner gave me half a crown, which I put into the till with the other—there was no other half crown there—there was only about 6s.—in consequence of something that passed in my own mind I went to the till, examined the two half crowns, and found them bad—I wrapped them in a piece of paper, and put them in my desk—I had never seen the prisoner before, but he came four times—about three weeks afterwards I saw him go past with another man and two women, but I had several customers in the shop—on 12th Dec. I saw him again, and made the charge against him.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did not you know that he lives near you? A. I have heard so since—I do not know that he was in the habit of passing my shop almost daily—I only saw him once afterwards, to my knowledge—nobody attends in the shop but me, except on Saturday nights, but I have a boy to mind the goods at the door—the prisoner was not running, he was in the road, going very fast—I had nobody whom I could have called, my boys were out, and my wife never comes into the shop—I am not the owner of the shop—I manage it for Mr. George Stapleton, of Croydon—I did not give the prisoner into custody; a tobacconist who lives above me gave him in charge, and I saw him pan with a woman—I no not take a great deal of money during the day—Saturday is my principal day of business—I had taken very little silver before the prisoner called—I empty the till every night—I gave change for half a sovereign after the prisoner gave me the 8s., and I had a few shillings before—the little boy for whom the trowsers were, was not there, he represented that he was ill at home—I am an outfitter—there are several outfitters in my neighbourhood—I took money after he left the last time, I do not know exactly how much—I do not know that the woman was his wife—I might possibly know her again—I did not see her in the shop on the Tuesday afterwards—about a week before he was taken I believe she purchased a coat—I do not know whether there were two boys with her, there was one—she paid me 3s. and something for the coat—I do not know whether she wanted a second coat—I said nothing to her about the half crowns—I did not after that see them go to a house over the way, to purchase, a coat that would fit the second boy—I have no recollection of seeing a second boy—(A woman was here brought into Court)—I am not certain
whether that is the person who came in with the prisoner, but she is the person who bought the coat afterwards, the prisoner was not with her then—I am not aware that she is his wife, but she came up to me on the day he was taken, and asked me to say that he had not bought a coat there.
COURT. Q. Did she come and tell you that she was the woman that was with him? A. No—when he was first taken before the Magistrate, he asked me if I had not seen him since, if he did not buy a jacket of me about a week before—I said, "No," and the woman came up the same day, and asked me if he did not buy a coat of me last week, and if I said at the court that he did not—I said that I did not say anything of the sort—I said that they had not bought a jacket—he was not with her when she bought the coat—between 17th Oct. and 12th Dec. I kept the half crowns locked in my desk, wrapped up separate, and kept the key in my pocket—I marked them, and gave them to the policeman—these are them (produced).
HARRIETTE MINCE . My husband keeps a tobacconist's shop, in New Cross Road, Deptford. On Friday, 12th Dec., about half past 8 o'clock, the prisoner came for half an ounce of tobacco—I served him—he gave me a shilling—I took it to the light, and saw that it was counterfeit—I bent it twice, and told him I wished there was a policeman there, and I would give him in charge—he said, "Do you suppose I would give you a bad shilling when I am in the habit of coming to your shop almost every night?"—he had a good shilling ready in his hand, which he gave me, and I gave him the bad one back—I had never seen him in the shop before.
Cross-examined. A. Does somebody else serve in the shop? A. My husband—I am always in the room at the back of the shop, and I always look up when a customer comes in, but I never saw the prisoner there—I have heard since that he lives near me.
ALEXANDER READING . (policeman, R. 264). On Friday, 12th Dec., I went after the prisoner, and found him in Mill-lane, at a lodging house which he keeps—I said, "You have been passing bad money this evening; you must come along with me"—going along, he put his hands into his trowsers pockets, I told him not to do so—it was a cold evening—as we passed Mr. Distnell's shop, he came out, and made a charge against the prisoner—I took him to the station—I took care that he did not take anything out of his pockets, but I found nothing on him.
Cross-examined. Q. How far is his house from Mr. Mince's? A. 400 or 500 yards, and the same distance from Mr. Distnell's—I knew where to go for him quite well—I am on duty in the Broadway—that is near where Mr. Distnell lives; the nearest point of my beat is 100 yards from it—there was a woman at the prisoner's house, but I attended more to the prisoner—he has lived there some years.
NOT GUILTY .
THOMAS SWINYARD . I am coachman to Mrs. Heurtley, of Lewisham. On Thursday, 25th Dec., I locked the coach house door, and next morning missed a saddle, bridle, and other things—I saw on the next Monday, at the police station, at Smithfield, a saddle, two bridles, a bridle rein, and some horse cloths, worth 4l. 10s., and they correspond—I do not know the prisoner—there
were also some articles of mine; a pair of gaiters, a pair of shoes, a strop, a brush, and a pair of razors; they are mine.
JAMES BAILEY . (City policeman,. 271). On Saturday, 27th Dec., in consequence of information, I went to Mr. Duffield's, No. 1, Long-lane, Smithfield; while I was there, the prisoner came in—I did not hear him make the application for the money, but Mr. Duffield told me something, and a saddle and bridle were brought to me in the prisoner's presence—Neave was there, but at another part of the shop, out of hearing—the prisoner did not know that I was a policeman, I was in plain clothes; he did not say whether the things were his—Mr. Duffield gave me 25s., requesting that I would go with the prisoner for him to give a reference, and if I found it a respectable one, to give him the 25s.—I went with him to Leather-lane, Holborn—I did not notice the number, but he took me to a house, spoke to a man in a cellar, who said that he knew that the prisoner lived with a man who kept a beer shop, but he was not within—I told him that I should prefer seeing some one by whom he had been employed; he said that he could refer me to some persons at the west end of the town—I said that we could ride there for 6d. each, and I could see anybody there—he said that he could not do that, for they were most of them out of town—I said that if he could not give me a reference, I should go back, and he went back with me, and afterwards gave me some information about another man.
JAMES NEAVE . I am a harness maker, in the employment of Mr. Duffield. I remember a policeman coming to Mr. Duffield's on Saturday morning, the 27th—on 25th Dec., the prisoner came there, and asked me if I would buy a saddle and bridle—I said, "Yes," and asked him to bring them—he said that he could not at present; he came again on Friday, 26th, and asked me if I would come clown and look at the saddle; he gave me his address, No. 5, Vinegar-yard, Drury-lane—I went there at 7 o'clock, and he took me to the top of the house, and found a saddle, two bridles, some reins, and a cloth—I asked him the price of them, he said 30s.—I bid him 25s., and he took it—I did not pay him, thinking it looked rather suspicious, but asked him to bring them down to our place, and to call at 12 o'clock on Monday morning for the money—he and I took them down to Mr. Duffield's at that time, he carried part and I carried part—I was at Mr. Duffield's when he called for the money; the things were produced to him, and to the policeman, they are the things which were afterwards shown to Swinyard at the station.
Prisoner. I was asked to sell the things; I did not know that they were stolen.
GEORGE TUFFREY . (policeman, R. 185). On Friday, 26th Dec., about half past 5, or 20 minutes to 6 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty at Bromley-road, and saw the prisoner and another person going towards Mrs. Heurtley's house; it was quite dark.
Prisoner. He has taken a false oath. Witness. I am sure he is the man, I knew him before, when he was in Mrs. Heurtley's service.
THOMAS SWINYARD . re-examined. This is my mistress's saddle, and was safe in the stable on the night of 25th—the prisoner was in my mistress's employ before me, but I know nothing about that—I had only been there two days prior to the robbery—he left the last week in July.
GUILTY .* Aged 27.— Confined Nine Months.
WILLIAM HENRY DAY . On Wednesday, 24th Dec., about half past 9 o'clock, I was at the Rupel Arms, on the road from Woolwich to Greenwich—I called for a pint of ale—I was not drunk—I might have had three glasses of ale, but knew what I was about—I had some tools with me—the prisoner took some of my ale—I rebuked him for taking it, and he struck me on the mouth—I did not strike him again—I went and sat down, it may have been for an hour—I then went out, and went towards Greenwich—when I had got about thirty yards, the prisoner followed me out with a female—he came up to me by himself—he did not say a word, but knocked me down and kicked me—I became senseless—I had my nose and mouth split, and my teeth shattered—I was kicked under my chin, and my ankle was cut—I remained on the ground without sense for some time, and, when I came to my senses, I saw him standing over me, and said, "Where are my tools?"—he said, "They are all right," and left me—I did not see which way he went—my tools were gone—they were worth 1l.—they were all in the basket with my flannel jacket—I have never seen them since—I saw the prisoner in custody that day week—I told the policeman Tester on 26th.
Prisoner. I was not within ten miles of the place—I was working at Dartford that day till half past 5 or 6 o'clock, and was in bed by half past 9 o'clock at the Kentish Arms: it was Christmas eve. Witness. I am confident he is the man.
MARY ANN MEACH . I was in the Rupel Arms on Christmas eve, and saw Day there and the prisoner—they were drinking some ale, and a female was in their company—I was in a young man's company, not in theirs—the prisoner drank some of Day's ale—Day did not like that, and the prisoner struck him—I afterwards saw Day go out with his tools in a basket on his left shoulder, and a flannel jacket on the top of it—the prisoner and the female followed him—I went out—an altercation took place outside, and the prisoner struck him, and felled him to the ground—by an altercation I mean words—the prisoner kicked him on his mouth—I did not call out because there was nobody there—the woman was standing five or ten yards off—Day seemed senseless—he lay on the ground about five minutes—the prisoner took up the tools which were on the road, and walked towards Woolwich with them—I never saw them afterwards—I returned to the public house, and remained there till it closed—I saw no more of the woman, but it appears that she went to Dartford the same night.
Prisoner. It was one of her pals. Witness. She is no pal. of mine—she is not a girl of the town—she is a married woman that occasionally goes with other men—I am not a married woman of the same kind—I am the wife of a sailor who is at sea—I had known Day from a child, but had not seen him for many years—I knew the prisoner before by the name of Blueskin,. but did not know his name—I live at Greenwich—I saw the woman who was with the prisoner, in custody at Dartford last Saturday—on the night in question she went towards Woolwich—that will take you to Dartford also if you go on.
Prisoner. You and your sister came into the Rupel Arms with her and a man in a white jacket, who had just come from sea. Witness. No, I saw her with you, and I have done so several times—you lived with her at Dartford as man and wife, as the officer will prove.
EDWARD HOPPER . I am a coach trimmer, and live at Charlton. I have a pint of beer at the Rupel Arms every night—I saw the prisoner there, but cannot say what night it was, there was a woman with him, but when
he came in there was not a soul in the room but myself—Day came in about three minutes afterwards—I afterwards saw him go out with his tool basket on his shoulder, and the prisoner and the woman followed him—I saw the prisoner drink some of the prosecutor's beer, but did not see him strike him.
JOHN TESTER . (policeman, R 89). On the day after Christmas day, I received information from Day—I could get no trace of the prisoner till 29th Dec., and took him on the 30th, in Greenwich, at the Blue Anchor, he was sleeping on a settle—I awoke him and charged him; he denied it, and said that he was at Dartford at the time—I told him who the man was, and he said that he knew nothing of him.
Prisoner's Defence. I told him that I was at Dartford at work, and so I was, for Mr. Hall; I went there on 17th Dec., slept there that night, and went to Gravesend and Milton; I then came back to Dartford, and was there seven nights, living at the same house; and at the time this happened I was in bed and asleep, and never got out of bed till 9 o'clock on Christmas morning; I had my tea with a man who worked with me, and who gave me the job to load a barge of iron, but he is too far off to come to speak for me; the prosecutor went down to the factory to see whether I had been there, and found that I had.
JOHN TESTER ., re-examined. I went to the factory, and found that the prisoner had been there, that he left there at a quarter to 5 o'clock, and came in with the tools, and was very drunk—it is about eight miles from the Rupert Arms to Dartford, but there is a railway.
GUILTY .** Aged 27.— Confined Nine Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
GEORGE JAKES BECKETT ., I keep a boot and shoe shop in Meadow—row, New Kent—road. On Friday evening last, I left my shop about 10 o'clock—I went next morning a little after 5 o'clock—as I went to turn the handle, to open the door, there seemed to be a pressure inside, as if somebody was pushing against me; and as I pushed, the glass of the door broke all to pieces, it is a sash door—I then heard a noise as if persons were running across the shop into a shed adjoining—I called for the police, who came—he went round a street adjoining the shed, I followed him, and when I came up he had the prisoner in his custody—I then returned and examined my shop—I found that two pairs of shoes which I had left the previous evening suspended on the gas pipe, were lying on the floor, five or six yards from the window—I found some lucifer matches by the outside of the door, and likewise inside the shop—they were of a different sort to those I had—I had locked my shop—nobody sleeps there.
THOMAS NEVILLE . (policeman, P 363). I heard a cry of "Police!" last Saturday morning, ran to the spot, and heard some one on the tiles of the roof; I ran round into Thomas-street, the adjoining street, and there I saw the prisoner drop from a wall, without a hat—I asked him what he had been doing there—he said he had just been knocked down by some man—I took him into custody, and took him back to the prosecutors shop, where
the prosecutor gave me these shoes—after taking the prisoner to the station I took a pair of boots from him—I compared them with some marks in the gardens. and they corresponded—I traced the footmarks across several gardens from the prosecutor's shed to the wall I saw the prisoner drop from.
Prisoner. There were a great many persons in the garden after you took me. Witness. Only in one garden. adjoining the prosecutor's shop, and I believe you were not in that; you told me you had just left the Alfred's Head—I did not go there—two hats were found in the shop, and this umbrella and bag.
Prisoner's Defence. I know nothing of the robbery, and had nothing about me likely to commit it; I was at the Alfred's Head till half past 5 o'clock, and if the constable had gone there he could have proved that I had just left it; he did not see me drop from the wall; I told him a man had knocked me down, and I supposed he had got my hat.
GUILTY ., Aged 28.— Confined Nine Months.
Mr. COOPER. conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES FLENOT ., I live at Morton's coffee house, Blackman-street, and am a carpenter. On Sunday morning, 22nd Dec., at half past 4 o'clock, I was in Blackman-street, Borough—I there met Crosby—I asked her where I could get something to eat—she took me home and took me up stairs—she then went out of the room to get a candle, and she returned with Taylor and a man—Crosby blew out the candle, and the man attacked me on my neck, and the two together robbed me of the money I had got it was two half crowns—I know I had them in my pocket before I went up stairs, I had my hand in my pocket—they then ran out of the room together—I stopped a little, for I could not find the door—Taylor then came and opened the door, and I went out into the street and went and got a policeman—when Taylor opened the door she said, "What do you want there?"—I said, "You know very well what I want"—while I was speaking to the policeman, the two prisoners came out and went to the other side of the street with a light, and looked as if for something—the policeman spoke to them, and took them into custody—I am sure the prisoners are the two women—I was in the room about five minutes—I was two or three minutes with them before the candle was blown out—there was a small light in the room before Crosby went out for a candle.
Crosby. You can not say that I am the young woman. Witness. I am sure she is, I met her in the street and walked with her to the house.
WILLIAM WESTON . (policeman, L 65). The prosecutor came to me in the Waterloo—road, on Sunday morning, and told me he had been robbed—whilst he was telling me, the two prisoners came along with a candle—the prose—cutor said, "Wait a bit, I think these are the two coming"—he went towards them and said, "They are the two girls that robbed me"—the prisoners denied having seen him before—the prosecutor pointed out the room to me—I know that the prisoners lived there—the prosecutor was sober.
Taylors' Defence. I never saw the man before; Crosby said she had lost a shilling, and I went with her to look for it, when we were given in charge.
TAYLOR— GUILTY ., Aged 24.
CROSBY— GUILTY ., Aged 18.
Confined Twelve Months
MR. CAARTEN. conducted the Prosecution.
HESTER ALLINGHAM ., I am a widow, and live at No. 84, Borough—road. I occupy the parlours—I had three pictures hanging up in my front parlour—I left the room at a quarter past 5 o'clock, and went into the kitchen—the window was left unfastened, but closed—it was about a yard high from the street—I returned to the room about twenty minutes to 6 o'clock—I then found the windows wide open, and the pictures gone—these are them (produced).
Cross-examined by MR. LILEY. Q. Did you not lose some other things? A. Yes; a pair of marble candlesticks, a writing desk, a work box, a piece of crotchet net, and a Bible—I did not know then where the prisoner lived, I have since heard that he lives about five minutes walk from me.
EDWIN COLEMAN . (policeman, M 53). From information I received, I went to the prisoner's house, on 30th Dec.—he lives in York—street, London-road—he was sitting at a table with a woman that he lives with, in the front room up stairs—I asked him what had become of the pictures that had been hanging over the mantel piece——I had not been at his room before—he said, "There have been none hanging there, no more than there is now"—I said, "Had yon not a picture there of a little kitten playing with a ball of cotton, in a small frame?"—he said, "No; I never saw such a thing"—I searched about the room—he said I should not find anything there—I went to the cupboard, and asked him to open it—he pulled at it two or three times spitefully, and said, "There, I cannot open it; there is nothing there," or some such words—I said to a constable who was with me, "You pull it"—he pulled it and opened it, and there were the paintings inside—I showed him this one of the kitten—he did not speak for the minute, but the woman said, "Oh, a young man left them here that he has been teaching the concertina to"—he said, "Oh, I forgot, so he did; some young man left them here."
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you were in uniform? A. Yes—he was at dinner when I entered—I believe I mentioned before the Magistrate the difficulty in opening the door—it might have stuck—he looked very much confused when I asked him about the pictures, and, after they were found, he said he could eat no meat—it was not before the cupboard door was opened that the female said the young man bad left them there, it was a minute or two afterwards—I put this picture on the table, and held it up and showed it them, and then the remark was made—it was constable 82 that opened the door—he is not here—the prisoner was admitted to bail, and has surrendered—he did not mention the name of the young man that left the pictures, I asked him that particularly.
MR. LILLEY. called the following Witness for the Defence.
JOSEPH JAMES JOHSON ., I am a wood turner, and live in Market-street, Borough-road. I know the prisoner—he is a teacher of music, he has taught me—I went to his residence in York—street two or three times a week for lessons—I recollect going there about three weeks ago, on a Sunday evening, between 6 and 7 o'clock—I do not recollect the day of the month—it was two or three Sundays ago—while I was there a person came in with a parcel—I did not notice what it was in—he said they were pictures—he asked whether he might leave them there—the prisoner said, yes, he might put them in the cupboard—I saw him put them in the cupboard—I did not stop long after I heard this—I was about to go when he came in—he remained—I did not see any preparation for teaching—when he
came in, the prisoner said, "This is one of my pupils"—I had had my lesson, and left—I work for my father in Market—street, Borough-road—I was born there—my father has lived there these twenty years—I have known the prisoner all my lifetime—I am eighteen years old—I never knew him to get into trouble before—I attended at the police court and gave evidence.
Cross-examined. Q. Was this Sunday you have been speaking of about the middle of Dec.? A. It must have been in Dec, it was about three weeks ago—when I went into the room, Mr. and Mrs. Castling were there, no one else till this young man came in—the prisoner did not mention his name, or where he lived; he merely said, "This is one of my pupils"—I did not notice what the parcel was wrapped in—the young man said they were pictures—he put them into the cupboard himself, not the prisoner—he did not say when he would call for them—I had never seen him before or since—I do not think the prisoner or his wife looked at the pictures—I am certain they did not—I went away almost directly they were put into the cupboard—the young man had not begun to take his music lesson when I left—it was the prisoner who asked me to go before the Magistrate and state what I knew—he came round to me on the Wednesday or Thursday after he was taken—I do not know when he was taken—I do not know whether he had then been before the Magistrate—I do not know where I was when he asked me to go—I think I must have been at home—I went with him to the Magistrate the same day ho came for me—he asked me to come and state what I knew about these pictures being brought—I do not think I had any lessons after that Sunday night—I had been taking lessons for about three months—I do not think I was at his house afterwards—I did not mention before the Magistrate what the pictures were wrapped in—the Magistrate asked me if they were wrapped in a red handkerchief, and I said I did not know—I never saw the pictures till I saw them at the police court last Saturday.
EDWIN COLEMAN . re-examined. The prisoner was first taken before the Magistrate on Tuesday 30th, he was remanded till the Saturday, he was in prison two days and a half—he was bailed on the Thursday evening, I think.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .,
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined One Month, and then
Transported for Life.
WILLIAM MORSE ., I am a labouring man, and live in Collingwood-street, Woolwich. On Friday night, 26th Dec., I was at Astley's theatre—I left it about 12 o'clock—I went into a pie shop, and then into a public house just below the railroad bridge in the Westminster-road—the prisoner came in while I was there—I stood there drinking—I said I had no conveyance home, and I should have to take lodgings in London till the morning—the prisoner said she would show me where I could get a lodging—I went with her—she took me to a house, and up stairs—I do not know the name of the place—I could not see anything, it was dark—I beard some one on the bed—I said I was not going to stop in that place—the prisoner turned her back to the door, and said if I offered to move out of the place she would break my head with a candlestick—the other one then spoke, and
they both called out "Tom"—a man then came into the room, and seized me by the throat, and chucked me on to his hip, and the prisoner took from my pocket a sovereign, a half sovereign, 2s. 6d., and a pearl button—they then took me down stairs, and chucked me on the kerb stone—I was half stupid when I got up—I remained there till daylight, till a policeman came by—I told him of this—he took me to the station—I went with a policeman to the house, and there found the prisoner and another woman lying in the bed, one dressed and the other undressed—I was not above three or four minutes in the room.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not come home, undress yourself, and come into bed between the two of us? A. No, I did not undress myself—I did not come more than three or four feet into the room—I lost my cap when I was upstairs—this is it—I did not give you and the other girl half a crown each—I had 4s. left in my pocket.
HENRY BARRETT . (policeman, L 81). I was on duty at the station on the morning of 27th—the prosecutor came there—I went with him to a house that he pointed out, No. 6, Charles—street, Westminster—road—I there found the prisoner in bed with another female—the prosecutor pointed the prisoner out as being the party that had robbed him—she said she knew nothing about it; she did not know the man——on the way to the station, she said, "Oh, I know you now; you are the man that went home with me this morning"—on going back to search the room, I found the prosecutor's cap lying on the side of the bed—I received this pearl button from the female searcher, who searched the prisoner—the prosecutor identified it—the prisoner was asked how she came by it—she said she did not know how it came into her possession—a knife, a key, a half crown, a sixpence, and 4d. in halfpence, and two farthings, were produced at the same time.
Prisoner's Defence. I met this man at the public house, and he went home with me, and came to bed to me and the other young woman, and gave us half a crown each; when it was getting daylight he bid us good bye, and said he would see us again; I shut the door, and heard no more of him till he came up with the policeman.
GUILTY .* Aged 23.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Justice Willes.
CHARLES HOGAN . I am a clerk to the Board of Works, and live at No. 39, Upper Bemerton-street, Caledonian-road. On the night of 17th Dec. I was in the neighbourhood of Old Kent-road, about 12 o'clock—I came by the last Greenwich omnibus that was going to the West-end; I got down at the Bricklayers' Arms, to take a Favourite omnibus from London-bridge—I asked the coachman the nearest way to London-bridge——he directed me down the road—as I went along I met two women—I asked them the nearest way to London—bridge—they said, "If you will give us something to drink, we will show you"—I said, "You shall have anything you like to drink if you will show me"—we went into a public house, and had some wine and cakes—I then asked them to show me the way—they said, "Down that way," pointing to the right—I went down that way—I have no recollection of the females accompanying me—I had been drinking, but I knew what I was doing—when I went down the street, the first sensation
I had was blindness; I was thrown on my back, and the sight was taken from my eyes, by strangulation; I found my tongue protruding—I do not know the cause of it; all I know is I was nearly choked; I do not know whether it was by a hand, or cloth, or cord, or what it was; before I had time to think of myself, I was on my back, and choking; I could not breathe—there were men about me; I heard their feet pattering about me—there were no words spoken until I was nearly dead, and then a man, about two yards to the right of me, said, "Don't choke him outright"—there was a hole made in my tongue, I do not know by what means—I remember my tongue protruding, and endeavouring to scream, and I could not—there was a hole next morning; it was not quite through my tongue—it was sore for about a week; it has healed now, but there is a hole still—as soon as one of them said, "Don't choke him outright," I found myself relaxed from their grasp a little, and I could then breathe, but I was unable to move—simultaneously a hand went into my right hand pocket, and took my watch, and about 15s. in silver—I then heard them depart—nothing was said—I was unable to move; I was on my back—I lay there for about twenty minutes, I should think—I was insensible, but conscious of what had happened—one moment longer would have killed me—my impression is that one man held me by the neck, one by each arm, and one was on my breast, and I fancy that I threw that man off into the mud by my exertions—I should say I remained there about twenty minutes, but I cannot say exactly—as soon as I was able I got up and ran, and cried out, "Police!" and "Murder!"—I met a policeman, and asked him where was the station house; he directed me to the station house at Stone's—end—I went and told the sergeant on duty what had happened, and while I was doing so the two women that had directed me, came in and said they knew the men that did it—they gave a statement, which the sergeant took down—I am not aware that a man came into the public house while I was there with the females—I saw a man in his shirt sleeves, and I asked the publican if he kept men there for fighting—I never saw any of the prisoners before.
JANE EVANS . I am the wife of William Evans, and live in William-street, Star-corner. On Wednesday night, 17th Dec., between 12 and 1 o'clock, I was in the neighbourhood of the Dover—road, with Elizabeth Atkinson—we met the prosecutor—he asked us to show him the way to London—bridge; we said, "Yes," and went with him some distance—we went into a public house with him to have something to drink, and when we came out we were overtaken by two or three men, and palled down—I was knocked down, and Mr. Hogan—I do not think they meant to pull me down, but I fell down—Mr. Hogan hallooed and screamed—I and my friend screamed out, "You have murdered the man," and we ran—I got through nearly to the top of Crosby-row, and laid hold of Williams—I got in front of him—I knew him as Christopher Wilks—I had got in front of them—this was through another turning into Crosby—row, just by the turning up at the back of Guy's Hospital—I cannot say how far that was from where the prosecutor was knocked down; it was at the bottom of another street—I said to Wilks, "You have robbed the man;" he said, "I will stick my knife in you if you come any further," and he called my friend a dreadful expression, and he sent several messages and threats to me—Cole is innocent; we met him by himself in Suffolk-street, as we were going to the station, and I believe Bryant is innocent—I cannot swear to him, but Cole I know was not there; I met him with a young woman in Suffolk—street, and told him what had occurred—I saw one of the men with
a watch in his hand, but I could not swear to him—I cannot say whether he was bigger or smaller than Williams—Williams said they would say that I was connected with the robbery, and had 5s. of it—I went to the police station, and 'gave information there of what had occurred—I had known Williams by sight for some time by the name of Wilks.
ELIZABETH KILLETT . I live at No. 3, King William-street, Star-corner. On Wednesday night, 17th Dec., after 12 o'clock, I was in the neighbourhood of Dover-road, with Evans—we met the prosecutor, and went to a public house, and had some refreshment—after we left the public house, when we were going down George-street, three young men came behind us—the tallest one pulled the prosecutor backwards, and also Evans—I rau screaming "Police!"—the three men all ran past us, but Evans caught hold of Williams—he told her he would stick his knife in her, and he also told me he would serve me worse than he had the gentleman—we met a policeman a good while after in Long—lane; we told him of it, and went back to the place where it was done, and he told us to go to the station—I do not think Cole was there, we met him in Suffolk-street, with a young woman, as we were going to the station—I know nothing about Bryant.
BARBARA MOORE . I am the wife of Henry Moore, of No. 15, Falcon-court, St. George the Martyr—I am the deputy of Mr. Castle's, lodging house—I know the three prisoners—I knew Williams by the name of Christopher Wilks—he and Bryant were lodging in the house on 17th Dec—they left about half past 12 o'clock that night—a man came to fetch Wilks out, and Bryant went with him—I do not know at what time they returned—I saw Cole come in between 10 and 11 o'clock next morning—I did not notice the state of his clothes.
ELIZABETH ALLENSON . I am the wife of George Allenson—I am housekeeper to Mr. Castle, of No. 15, Falcon—court, Southwark—I remember being in the house on 17th Dec.—I went to the theatre, and when I returned, Chris Wilks was in bed, and Bryant, or Wallop as we called him, was lying on a form in the kitchen—that was about twenty minutes to 12 o'clock—after that a person came into the house—I do not know him—he called out "Chris"—I opened the parlour door and said, "If you want any one go to the kitchen door, you will find the deputy, she will answer you—he said, "I want Chris to go and do a garotting, in Kent—street"—Wallop went down to call Chris—he came up again with Chris, and all three went out; that was near 1 o'clock—they returned at very near 2 o'clock—I could not tell who returned, for I was in the parlour, and Mr. Castle would not allow me to go out—when I heard them run in, I heard them say, "Has anybody been here after us, is it all right?"—Wilks and Wallop were in the kitchen next morning at breakfast; I heard them talking about how much money they had got, and how much the breakfast would come to, and what their shares would be each—Wilks was telling Wallop how much it would come to, and how much he would give to Cole,. and how much he was to get for himself—Wallop said they had very nearly killed the old b—, and if so be they had known there was any more about him they might have done it quite—when Billy Cole came in in the morning for his shirt, I beard them arguing in the kitchen about how much he was to have—when Cole came in, he had mud on him, and he walked lame—some words passed between Williams and Cole, but I could not hear what it was—I heard that there was a watch, and that was sold for a pound, and that Billy Cole took the 15s. out of the gentleman's pocket, and Wallop took the watch—they call sharing the money their "regulars"?—that
was said at breakfast—Cole went away murmuring he would not work with them any more—the others remained in the kitchen all day.
Cole. Q. Did I go away before you went out of the kitchen? A. No—you were in the kitchen when I returned into the parlour—you had gone out into the yard to put your clean shirt on—I did not see Williams give you anything while I was there—Williams followed you out to speak to you.
COURT. Q. How came you to know what "regulars" meant? A. Only by hearing them talk of it in the kitchen.
EDWARD COLE . (policeman, M 53). I took Williams and Bryant, on the 18th, at No. 15, Falcon-court, a lodging house, and Cole on the 19th—the place was all in an uproar when I went in—I told them the charge, but I could not exactly hear what they said—it was dark—I got the master of the lodging house, and got a candle—it is a den of thieves—when they were at the station they denied all knowledge of anything about it.
Williams's Defence. I have been concerned in the robbery, but not in the assault on the gentleman; the man who committed the assault is not yet in custody.
Cole's Defence. I am innocent of what I am charged with.
WILLIAMS— GUILTY . Aged 24.— Transported for Twenty Years.
BRYANT— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
COLE.— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. LEWIS. conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD MARTI RUDDOCH . I am cashier to George Myers, of Belvidere-road, Lambeth; Brown has been employed by him, but I do not know whether Moynihan has—on 2nd Dec. Moynihan presented this paper to me—Brown was with him—(Read: "Please pay Coin, bricklayer, two days, five hours, 12s. 6d. Zincraft.")—Zincraft is the time keeper at our place in Friday-street—I asked Brown if it was for work done at our place in Friday-street—he said, "Yes"—I then asked Moynihan, and he said the same—I immediately saw that they were forgeries (there was another paper also)—I put the money down on the table, and when Brown was in the act of taking it, I had sent some clerks round to detain them, and they were taken.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where were you? A. When they came to the window, I was in the yard—there were not other men at the window—I was sent for from the yard into the office, went to the window, and the tickets were given to me by Moynihan, through Brown—I called out, "Hall," and Brown answered to the name—I said, "Is this for work at Friday-street? and he said, "Yes"—T spoke to Brown first, and then asked the other man the same question—I knew that this was Brown's ticket, because when I called out "Hall," he answered—I call him Brown, because that is his name—I did not know their names at the time—I actually saw Brown put down these two papers before me as soon as I opened the window—there are 3, 000 or 4, 000 men in the employment.
Cross-examined. Q. Is it signed without a Christian name? A. Yes, I always do so in business.
THOMAS BARTON . (policeman, L 157) I took the prisoners—they said that they were employed by Mr. Myers—when they arrived at the station, they said that they met some men in the Waterloo-road, who were drunk, and gave them the orders, and asked them to go and get them cashed for them, and they would wait at the corner of the street till they came out—I searched the prisoners, and on Moynihan I found this piece of blank paper, concealed in the lining of his jacket, at the back; it corresponds in quality with this on which the order is written.
Cross-examined. Q. Is it a very ordinary sort of paper? A. Yes—there were holes in his pockets, but they were very small; I felt the paper, but was some time before I could find the way to it—I did not take them to see if two men were waiting for them, they did not say so till after they arrived at the station—I believe the Magistrate asked me on the second occasion why I did not do so.
(The prisoners' statements before the Magistrate were here read as follows: Moynihan says: "It is a mistake, it was on Westminster-bridge that we met the men; they asked us if we knew which was Myers' yard, and we said, 'Yes,' and they gave us the tickets, and asked us to draw their money; they seemed to be intoxicated; they were to wait till we came out; one of the men said that if they asked how long I had worked, I was to say two days five hours; the other man gave Brown his ticket, and we went down the yard together; Brown handed in his ticket first, and I after, and the moment the tickets were out of our hands we were seised by a lot of men; I saw no money and received no money." Brown says: "I have nothing more to say than the other—has said.")
BROWN— GUILTY . Aged 27.
MOYNIHAN— GUILTY . Aged 23.
Confined Eighteen Months
Before Michael Prendergast, Esq.,
245. ANTONY FLOOD , feloniously forging and uttering a warrant for 10l.; also, an undertaking for the payment of 10l.; with intent to defraud: also, unlawfully obtaining 10l., by false pretences, from Thomas Hughes and another: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY .—Aged 20.
(Mr. Verrall, a surgeon, of Brighton, to whom he was apprenticed, gave him a good character.)— Judgment respited.
BROWN PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. CLERK. conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE LEFTWICH . My father is a licensed victualler, in Rotherhithe. In the afternoon of 18th Dee., the prisoner Brown came in for a pint of beer, between 4 and 5 o'clock—he tendered me a bad half crown—I told him it was bad, called my father, and gave it to him—I went outside, and saw the prisoner James, about 100 yards from the door—I came in and told my father—Brown then gave me a good half crown, and I gave him two shillings and four penny pieces; amongst them there was one penny that I knew, it had a piece off it; it was shown to me again the same evening—when I
was at the door, and saw James, he was leaning against some iron rails, and looking towards me.
JOSEPH BENJAMIN LEFTWICH . I am the father of the last witness—he called my attention to the half crown; I marked it, and kept it till I gave it to the inspector—this is it—when Brown left I followed him directly, and saw James about 200 yards off—he crossed over to meet Brown, and I should say, by the appearance, they spoke to one another; they walked together, and I saw their hands go together, as if one gave something to the other—as I went on I met the inspector, he turned back, and we followed the prisoners about 200 yards further on—they then separated—Brown went into a beer shop, and James was outside opposite—the inspector took James first; he then crossed over the road, and took Brown in the beer shop.
EDWARD WILLIAM REDDING . (police inspector). I followed the two prisoners with the last witness—I took James into custody at the Red Lion public house—I then went to the beer shop opposite, and took Brown; he was in the act of putting some money on the counter; I seized his hand, and found in it a counterfeit half crown and a good shilling—he put his hand in his trowsers pocket, and brought out some papers—I seized his hand, and found twelve half crowns in three different paper parcels—I took Brown over to the Red lion, where James was, and charged them with passing bad money—Brown said, "I am guilty, but that man is innocent, he knows nothing of it"—I found two good shillings on James, and 9d. in copper—I showed one penny piece that I found on James to George Leftwich, and he identified it—I received this half crown from Mr. Leftwich—the prisoners gave addresses—I went to both the places they named, but no such persons lived there.
James. I was not in this man's company at all.
GEORGE LEFTWICH . re-examined. This penny piece is one that I gave to Brown that evening—I can swear to it by the edge of it—it has a bright edge, which is lighter than the other part—I had it given to me half an hour before, and I had it in my hand for five minutes—I took it of a man for a pickwick.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint These half crowns are all bad, three of them are from one mould; five of them are George the Fourths, all from one mould, and six are Victorias, all from one mould.
JAMES— GUILTY .** Aged 34.— Confined Eighteen Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. PAYNE. conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN BOURKE . I live at No. 21, Gloucester-street, Lambeth, and am a shoe-maker. I have known the prisoner about two years—on Friday night, 26th Dec, about 7 o'clock, his brother took me to his house—some words passed between him and his brother, and I interfered—when I came out, the prisoner followed me, and struck me, and knocked me down at his brother's door—I came away home with my wife, and sat down in my own place at my own fire, I, and my wife, and my daughter, and in twenty minutes or half an hour's time a party came and hit the door and the shutters with stones or bricks, enough to shake the house down—I got up and went out to see what it was, and as soon as I got out I was knocked down by the prisoner with a clam—this is the clam—he struck me on the head with it—I had no hat on—it was a hard blow, it knocked
me down and cut my head—I bled very severely—after I was down, I was kicked by the prisoner's wife and this party—I had the thumb of my left hand injured—I do not recollect any further—I did not strike the prisoner first with the clam—my wife did not strike him with the poker or a pot—she did not strike him before he struck me—I was outside, and she was inside—I never called him a cuckold, nor said that I had had his wife on the stairs.
Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. Were you not drinking before this at the prisoner's brother's house? A. I said that I was there—I drank part of a glass of beer—I have known the prisoner three years—I thought he was a friend, but I have found out my mistake—when he and his brother quarrelled I merely separated them—I did not like to see quarrelling—I did not come out of my house with the clam in my hand—it was not taken out of my hand after I had struck once or twice with it—I was struck With it when I came out—I did not strike a single blow before I was struck, I had not time to do it, I went into my own house that I should have no more to do with this fellow—when the dispute took place which I tried to stop, I did not go out with the prisoner and his brother to fight—we were not put asunder—I did not say, "I want no more to do with it"—no blow was struck till he struck me in coming out of his brother's house—I did not call out, "Where is the Kerry bastard? I have had his wife upon the stairs"—there was not a quart pot in my house—my wife was not in the act of striking Courtenay with it—Robinson did not come out and take it—some money was offered me; my wife took 10s. and the Magistrate ordered me to return it—a promise was made to me of 5s. a week while I was ill—I said I did not wish to begin the new year with quarrelling, I did not wish to have anything to do with law—I have got six children to provide for—I believe I am a man of a very peaceable disposition; if I had not been, I should have been in the policeman's hands—I was not in some quarrel with a man named Collins—I did not strike an old woman—I had not been in a quarrel on that very evening—I was in a disturbance with two men, saying they had robbed me—those men were acquitted because I was not able to go down again to the court—I am not a violent man at all.
MR. PAYNE. Q. When you came out of your house, were you attacked immediately? A. Yes—my wife was not out till after I was struck—I do not know what occurred to her afterwards.
COURT. Q. Do you use such a thing as this clam? A. Yes—it is mine—the prisoner's brother had borrowed it of me, and had never returned it—they have got another one of mine in their possession now—they are always borrowing my things.
ANN BOURKE . I am the wife of the last witness—I came away with my husband from the prisoner's brother's house—we went straight home, and were at home from twenty minutes to half an hour before anything happened, and then John Courtenay and his party came to the house and broke the shutters and the door, I did not see what with—my husband went out in a minute or two, and when he went out I saw the prisoner strike my husband with the clam, and the rest of them jumped on him and kicked him, and I screamed "Murder!"—my husband bled awfully—I saw his thumb afterwards—I cannot say what had happened to it—he said it was bitten—I had not struck the prisoner at all with a poker or pot before my husband was knocked down, nor had my husband.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you come out with your husband when he came out? A. Yes—I followed him out directly—if anything had taken place
before I came out, I could not tell what it was—my husband did not take this clam out of the house—it is his, but he had lent it to the prisoner's brother three weeks before Christmas—I am certain there was no clam in my husband's house—I had not a quart pot in my hand—Robinson did not come behind me and take it away from me—I did not strike any blow, but I called him a murderer—I used no violence, I had not been able to do so—I did not hear my husband use the words, "Come out, you Kerry bastard"—directly he came out they knocked him down on the step of his own door—before the stones came, we had been drinking at the house of the prisoner's brother, and there was some dispute.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Was your daughter there? A. No, she was at home—she came out when the blows were given—my husband was inside his house when the prisoner came there.
ELLEN BOURKE . I am the daughter of the last witness. I was at home with my father and mother on the night of 26th Dec.—when the noise came to the door, we were sitting by the fire—my mother and father had been at home about twenty minutes—when the noise came my mother sent me for a policeman—when I was coming back I saw the prisoner, he struck me over the temple and heaved stones at me, and said he would have my b—life—my father was at that time lying down in the road—I did not see him struck.
Cross-examined. Q. Why did you go for the policeman? A. Because there was so much noise at the door—when I came back my father was lying down—I did not see anybody at the door when I went out—I went out the back way.
HENRY BATESON . I am a surgeon, of No. 2, Waterloo-road. I was sent for to the police station on 26th Dec—I saw Bourke bleeding from a wound on the left part of the head, very close to the temple, a little better than two inches long, and right down to the bone—he was bleeding a great deal—I examined his thumb, it appeared as if trodden upon or bruised in some manner—he had had an incised wound.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe he got well soon? A. Yes, very soon—scalp wounds are dangerous, but he recovered rapidly.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Would a person of temperate habits get well sooner than others? A. It makes a great deal of difference.
ELLEN COTTER . I am servant at No. 30, Gloucester-street, Lambeth—I was passing the prosecutor's house on 26th Dec., about 7 o'clock in the evening, and saw the prisoner knock the shutters, and kick at the door—Bourke came out, and the prisoner struck him twice over the head with a clam—that knocked him down, and the prisoner and others jumped upon him—I screamed out "Murder!" and said, "You have murdered the man!"—when I screamed, the prisoner drew a knife, and said, "I will take your b—life!"—I ran away—he seemed very violent.
THOMAS CURTIS . (policeman, L 78). The prisoner was given into my custody on 26th Dec, for violently assaulting Bourke and his wife—I saw them both lying on the floor at the house, No. 21, Gloucester-street, bleeding very much from the head—the man was quite unconscious—the prisoner said he was only taking his own part, and the man struck him first—I observed no wound on the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. Were not the words he used, "I struck him in my own defence?" A. Yes.
Witnesses for the Defence.
and so is he—on 26th Dec, he and the prosecutor 'were drinking together in my house—I went out for some beer—while I was out my brother and the prosecutor were fighting in the street—I saw Bourke hit my brother after I came in with the beer, and then run away—there was no dispute between my brother and myself—I came into my house, and brought the beer inside—I then went out to get my brother back, and I saw Bourke standing at his own door, holding up the clam—he was in the habit of having this clam in his house—he was calling out for John Courtenay, the Kerry bastard, the cuckold, and saying that he had his wife on the stairs—I saw him strike Courtenay with the clam on his shoulder, and Courtenay knocked him down, and got possession of the clam from him—I went to interfere to put them asunder—I got my brother into my own house, and took the clam from him, and brought it with me—I saw the prosecutor's wife throw some of the china ware, or china ornaments out of the door at the parties who were fighting.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did you go after your brother? A. Yes; all the neighbours were round about—I did not see any knocking at the door or shutters—when I went to fetch my brother back, I found him at Bourke's house, and Bourke was standing on the flagstone of his own door, and calling out, "Where is the Kerry bastard?"—my brother made answer to that, and said he was a liar, and he went across the road, and Bourke came after him, and hit him on the shoulder with the clam, and my brother struck Bourke once on the head.
COURT. Q. When was it he struck Bourke with the clam? A. At the time that Bourke was down.
JOHN ROBINSON . I live at No. 33, Gloucester-street, and am potman at a public house. I was standing at the door on boxing night, between 7 and 8 o'clock—I saw Mr. and Mrs. Bourke come out of their house—I did not see any person knocking at their house before they came out—when they came out Mr. Bourke had his clam in his hand—I am quite sure of that, and Mrs. Bourke had a quart pot behind her—I saw Mr. Bourke strike the prisoner with the clam, and Mrs. Bourke heaved the pot out of her hand—I took the pot up, and took it in to my mother's, and my mother said, "This belongs to Mr. Sheay"—and I went and took it into the house.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You did not see the prisoner knock the prosecutor down, and strike him on the head with the clam and make him bleed? A. No; I have had no quarrel with these parties—I never was in prison in my life—I never had fourteen days for assaulting young Bourke—I never had fourteen days in my life—I have had no dispute with young Bourke, only when he broke my mother's window, and told her she kept a bawdy house, and she never kept such a house in her life.
MR. PLATT. Q. How long have you been out of place? A. Eight weeks—I lived nine months in my last place at the Prince of Wales.
COURT. Q. Did you have any words with young Bourke? A. No; because my mother said, "Let him alone," he called my mother all manner of names, but I would not interfere—I live with my mother—it is a milk shop—there is no tossing up there—we cannot help it if persons are standing at the corner of the street, and tossing, or in the house, or out at the door—we have two lodgers—I never was in prison in my life, and I never will—there were some friends of my mother in the house, and I stopped some time—I did not take the pot over just at first—when I came out the row was over—when I saw Bourke he was by his door—and
Courtenay was coming past the pavement—I did not see either of them on the other side of the way.
GUILTY . on 2nd Count. Aged 31.— Confined Twelve Months.
There was another indictment for wounding Ann Bourke.
MR. HUGHES. conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH PARKER . I reside at No. 73, Marigold-street, Rotherhithe—I am a turner—the prisoner works in the same shop with me—on 27th Dec, he came into the shop at half past 5 o'clock in the evening—there was an apprentice there, and the prisoner said to him, "Have you left work?"—he said, "Yes"—the prisoner said, "Who told you?"—he said, "Joseph," meaning me—the prisoner said that it was like my b—impudence in doing so, and he took up the candlestick, which stands about ten inches high, took the candle out, and threw the candlestick at me—it missed me—he then took up the oil stone, which is about six inches long and weighs about three pounds, and he threw that at me—that missed me—he then took up the large hammer, and threw it at me—it struck me on the right cheek—I was knocked down senseless—the apprentice was there all the time—when I was down I do not know what took place—when I came to my senses I found the prisoner holding my head down—it was in the dark—he let go, and I got away from him—I have a wound on the top of my head—that could not be in falling, as it is on the top, and I fell on my back—I called, "Murder!"—some persons came in with a light, and I was taken away—I am suffering now from the effects of it—I cannot work. Prisoner. You have sworn it was half past 5 o'clock, and when I came in you were standing with your pipe and smoking—it was broad daylight Witness. No; it was half past 5 o'clock.
Prisoner. When I came in I said, "What do you leave off work for? and you said, "Because I am master here, and I will see you d—before he shall work any longer"—I said, "Give me the candle, and let me finish the work;" and you said, "I will see you d—before you shall have it" Witness, No; I did not—I only said, "That is my candle."
HENRY WOOD . I am apprentice to the prisoner. On Saturday, 27th Dec, I was in the shop with the last witness, about half past 5 o'clock in the evening—I had a candle alight—the prisoner came in, and the first thing he wanted to know the reason why I had left off work—I said Joseph told me to leave off—he said it was like his impudence to tell me so—I did not hear Joseph say he was master there—he said he told me to leave off work—the prisoner then took up this candlestick, and threw it at Joseph—it did not hit him—he then took the oil stone and threw it at him—that did not strike him—he then threw this hammer at him, and he fell down senseless in the dark—the prisoner was abusing him in the dark, when he was on the ground—he was close to him—I heard a scuffling, but I could not see what it was—Dixon then came in with a light—Joseph was lying on the floor senseless—I lifted him up and put him on the block—the prisoner went out, and as he was going I heard him say, "I will do for him," and he walked away.
Prisoner. Q. When the hammer was thrown at Joseph, where were you? A. Standing at the vice—I left off work because Joseph told me to leave off—I generally act by his authority—my proper time to leave off is 6 o'clock—there was not much work to do.
COURT. Q. But you ought to have done the work that night? A. Yes. CHARLOTTE DIXON. About half past 5 o'clock that night I heard a cry of "Murder!" and saw the prisoner come out of the shop—he made use of a bad expression, and said he would do for him—I went in the shop—the last witness was there, in the dark, and he said, "Come in, Mrs. Dixon; Box has knocked his eye out"—I got a light and went in, and Parker was lying on the ground—I did not see any blood—I was afraid to look.
Prisoner. Your door was shut when I was out; you are a false swearing woman. Witness. No; my door was not shut, I was in the street.
JAMES SAVILLE . I am a surgeon. On 27th Dec., the prosecutor came to me, about a quarter past 6 o'clock—he was bleeding profusely from the head—he had a contused wound on the top of the head—it was cut to the bone—it could not be done by a man falling on his back—it was a blow received from some flat instrument, or the heel of a boot—he had received a severe bruise in the face, and his eye was much saturated with blood.
Prisoner. There is a large block in the shop, that is what he fell against Witness. It might have been done by that—it is not impossible.
Prisoners Defence. All I can say is, I am very sorry it occurred; it was not done maliciously; it was a very aggravating case to see my journeyman drunk two days; he would not do the work, nor get it ready for me to do it myself; he said I had no business to go in that place, because some months ago I had my goods seized, and the prosecutor was allowed to take that place, and I was to give him 15s. a week, instead of 10s. which he had before; the agreement was that the chip money and chump money was to be put on one side for the rent; he let the room up stairs, and gave me no account; when he got drunk, he dared me to enter the shop, and he turned me out because I had allowed his name to be put up; he has been a reprobate, and was in Clerkenwell for striking his brother-in-law, and then he went passing bad money at Norwich; I took him again out of pity, and this is what I have got for it; he tried several times to take all my connection away from me; I am in such a state now that I can hardly stand; he has robbed me, and even broken open my letters, and I am now incarcerated because my spirits were up; that evening the apprentice took home 7s. worth of work, and they had it, and I had not a farthing; I am very sorry I did this; I went afterwards to the Royal George, and got half a pint of 4d. ale, and the policeman came and said, "I want you for an assault in Marigold-street I said, "Very well, I will go;" the prosecutor was in drink, and I had had a drop, as I had been about with several publicans.
COURT. to JOSEPH PARKER. Q. Were you ever taken into custody? A. Yes; for running away from my apprenticeship and for robbing my sister—that is fourteen years ago—I never was in custody at Norwich, nor had any charge against me for counterfeit money—I have been with the prisoner five years—I took the premises when he was in distress—he could not pay me—he owes me 3l. 10s. now—I was not in drink that night—I had had something to drink—I told the apprentice to leave off work, because my master allows me to be foreman over him—we generally leave at 6 o'clock.
GUILTY . of unlawfully wounding, under strong provocation.—Aged 60. Recommended by the Jury.— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Baron Martin and the Fifth Jury.
250. WILLIAM PIERCE, JAMES BURGESS , and WILLIAM GEORGE TESTER , were indicted for stealing on 15th May, 1855, 200 lbs. weight of gold; 400 oz. weight of other gold; 100 bars of gold; 10 orders for the payment of 1, 000l.; 10 warrants for the payment of 1, 000l., and money to the amount of 1, 000l., the property of the South Eastern Railway Company, their masters. 2nd COUNT., for simple larceny. 3rd COUNT., for stealing the property in the dwelling house of the company. 4th COUNT., for feloniously receiving the same.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE., with MESSRS. BODKIN. and MONK., conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD AGAR . (a prisoner). I am at present a convict under sentence of transportation for life; that is under a conviction for uttering a forged bankers' cheque—I am one of the persons by whom a robbery of gold was effected in May, 1855, on the South Eastern Railway Company—I know the three prisoners—I have known Pierce I should think about five years; it might be more—he was not in the employment of the South Eastern Railway Company when I knew him—I have known Burgess between three and four years—I knew him employed as one of the guards of that company—I have known Tester I think somewhere about the same time—he was in the employment of the company, in the superintendent of traffic's office.
Q. When did you first have any conversation with either of the prisoners upon the subject of this robbery? A. The first time I had any conversation was with Pierce about four years since, I should think—I had been to the United States of America—I saw Pierce upon this robbery after my return, but I knew him previously to going—when I returned he was a clerk at Clipstone's betting office, in King—street, Covent-garden—I met him in King-street accidentally—I had conversation with Pierce on the subject of this robbery before I went to America; it was then proposed to commit the robbery provided we could, and I declined it—I did not think it was practicable to be done—I then left and went to America, and when I returned I met Pierce accidentally; he asked me if I thought anything more about the robbery; I said I thought it was impossible to be done, unless an impression of the keys could be got—he said he thought he could get them, if I would undertake it—I had several meetings with Pierce after that; the conversation was generally how to obtain possession of these keys—upon his telling me he thought he could procure impressions of the keys, I said if he could do so I would have no objection to undertake to complete the robbery—the matter was then left—he said he would endeavour to see Tester, and when he did he would let me know—Tester and Burgess were the two names he mentioned as being connected at that time.
Q. How was that stated, in answer to any question of yours, or how? A. Merely stating, was he sure he could get the impression, it was no use my waiting if he could not, and he said, "No doubt in course of time he could do so;" that was the conversation that passed.
Q. Was anything said about how many persons were to be concerned in it? A. Yes, four, three besides myself—that was in answer to a question of mine—I asked him if he could get the impressions how many parties would be connected with it; he said there would be four, naming Tester, Burgess, himself, and myself—this was the subject of conversation several times when I met Pierce—this was about four years ago, when I first came
back from America—I went down to Folkestone about twelve months before the robbery—in the interval I had seen Burgess—I had seen Pierce several times—I had seen Burgess, but Tester I had not seen up to that time, although I knew him—I had not seen him about this robbery—before I went to Folkestone I had conversation about the robbery, at which Burgess was present, and also with Tester before I went to Folkestone—I could not state the number of times I had seen Burgess before I went to Folke-stone, it was so many—I used to meet him at Sterne's, being the usual house he went to, and I have seen him at his own house—on those occasions when Burgess has been present, I did not see Tester—I had seen Tester before I went down to Folkestone—I saw him at Margate, he was station master there, I went down there to see him—when Burgess was present with Pierce and myself, the conversation was that Pierce had communicated with Tester, because he had more control over Tester than I had—Pierce stated to me that Tester was at Margate and wished to see me, that he could show me the impression of the cash box if that would be any criterion for me to go by to make the keys for the bullion chest—I went down to Margate and saw Tester—I went with him to his lodging, took some tea with him, and I stopped there that night, and returned to London in the morning—he showed me the iron safe that was in the office at Margate; and in the morning he showed me the key belonging to a cash box that comes up the line with the money for the different stations, and he asked me if that would be any guide for me to make the keys of the bullion chest by—I said not the least—he said it was a great pity that Pierce had not named it to him before, for when he was clerk at the harbour office at Folkestone he had the keys in his possession, and that induced me and Pierce to go down to Folkestone—I should say, as near as my memory will permit, that it was about six or seven months after seeing Tester at Margate, that Pierce and I first went to Folkestone—when I returned from Margate I saw Pierce; I saw Burgess, I believe at night, or when his train came in—I went round and saw him and communicated to him what my opinion was upon what reports Tester had made to me at Margate—they asked my opinion upon it, and I said the only thing would be to go down to Folkestone, take an apartment and stop there and watch the tidal trains in and out, and see if the keys were there according to the report that Tester had given—it was arranged that that should be done—I and Pierce then went to Folkestone—that was about a year before the robbery and about six months after the conversation with Tester at Margate—Pierce and I hired two bed rooms and a sitting room at Folkestone—I do not know the name of the house, it was on the right hand side going from the up station towards the town—I went by the name of Adams there—I do not know the name that Pierce went by—I do not know whether he gave any name or not—I took the apartments in the presence of Pierce—I should think we stopped at Folkestone probably a fortnight—I could not say the time exactly—we stopped there till Pierce was driven away by the inspector of police—we used to go down to the harbour on the arrival of the train from London and the boat from Boulogne, watch the iron safe and see whether they unlocked it or what was done—we did not succeed in seeing them for some time, and by being down there so often the police took notice of us—the inspector at Folkestone followed Pierce—I told him that he was looking after him—I supposed he thought he was there for picking pockets or something of that, and Pierce took him through the town and got away from him in some way, and went to the lodging, I went to the lodging to have my tea, and met Pierce there—in consequence
of that, Pierce came up to London that same day, leaving me there—I either remained a week or stopped till the week was up, I cannot say which—I noticed on one occasion the way in which the safe that brought the bullion was—before Pierce left, we noticed generally the way in which it came—we were always there to notice whether the bullion safe was opened or not—we had not seen it opened.
COURT. Q. You said you saw it opened on one occasion? A. Yes, on one occasion which I will mention.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was that on the occasion of a parcel coming? A. No; it was before Pierce came up; a chest was going to be sent up to London empty, it was placed on the platform, and a man named Sharman, I believe a ticket porter, came out to lock the chest; and he used one key and there was another key suspended, which I supposed was the key of the other lock—I saw that done, and when he had locked it I followed him into the office, to see where he put the keys; and he put them into the cash till, a drawer under the desk that is at the office where the tickets are distributed at the harbour station—when I came up to London I saw Pierce and Burgess—during the time I remained at Folkestone after Pierce had left, I frequented a house there kept by a man of the name of Meadows, or some such name, in the upper part of the town—Chapman and Ledger, the two clerks, used to go there, and I used to go there to play at billiards with them—I did not succeed in getting any information from them—they gave me no facility whatever in the object I had in view—Pierce was living in Walnut-tree-walk, Lambeth, at this time—I mentioned to Pierce what had happened at Folkestone during his absence—I named to him that I had been down there seeing the trains in, and the policeman was always there looking for him—I stated to him that I thought we should be able to get the impressions, provided I had an introduction to one of the men, of the name of Sharman I think it was but, being a stranger, I could not make myself acquainted with him—it was then arranged (Pierce made the arrangement) that he should see Tester and make an appointment for Tester to meet me at Folkestone, and introduce me to this Sharman to walk about the station with me—Pierce met Tester, and made the arrangement to meet me there—I did not see him meet Tester—he told me that he had done so, and I was to go down to Folkestone, and stop there, and Tester was to meet me there as it were by accident—I went down alone—I should think that was something like eight or nine months previous to the robbery—I cannot speak correctly to dates—I stopped at the Pavilion Hotel that time—I only remained there two or three days, to the best of my recollection—I saw Tester at the up station on the Sunday, and we walked together down to the harbour station, and walked about—when I met him he merely asked me how I was, and such like, or if the parties were there—I said I had seen them, but I could not introduce myself to them—he said, "I will make it all right for you"—we walked arm in arm together down to the harbour station, and went into the office—he showed me about the office, and the, telegraph, and such like, and there we saw the man named Sharman, the ticket clerk—Tester introduced me to Sharman as "a friend of mine, stopping here for some little time"—when he introduced me to Sharman, it was proposed that we should go to the Pavilion to have a glass of wine—Sharman consented, and brought a friend with him—Sharman, his friend, and me and Tester went into the Pavilion—I called for some sherry and biscuits, which we partook of—Tester and Sharman were in conversation about how business was going on there, whether they had much bullion crossing, and
such like; the principal of the conversation was between Tester and Sharman, I merely sat there as any other person—I believe Sharman to be the name of the man, the ticket clerk, or something similar to that name—Tester dined with me that day at Folkestone—it was on a Sunday, I do not know the date—no one but Tester dined with me.
Q. Was anything then said about this robbery? A. He asked me what my opinion was; I said, I thought it was very likely, as I had had an introduction to Sharman I might go with him at the time he was issuing out tickets, and get an impression of the keys—Tester came up to London on that same day—I stopped at Folkestone—I used to take a walk on to the beach, or round about, to pass away my time—I generally endeavoured to throw myself in the way of Sharman, but he was a very sedate young man—I could not get further than the time of day with him; I could not get at all intimate with him—I did not see anything more of the chest, or the place where the keys were kept—finding that I could not get any way familiar with Sharman, I came up to London—I saw Burgess and Pierce—I told them that I could not make any impression with this Sharman on account of his being so sedate, but we would let it remain a little while, and we would go down again when the police had forgotten Pierce, which was consented to—during this time the key of the bullion chest was lost—Pierce communicated it to me—he told me that he had received a letter from Tester, stating that one of the keys was lost, and the bullion chest would have to come up to Mr. Chubb's to be repaired—after Pierce had made this statement to me, he stated that Tester had told him he expected the box up, and to let him have some wax to take the impression—I objected to that—I said, "No, I must take the impression myself"—he saw Tester, and communicated that to him, and then the arrangement was made between Pierce and Tester for me to be at the arcade,—near the terminus, at a given hour of the day, and if he had the key he would let me take the impression—I went there accordingly, and met Tester—he stated that he had not got the key then—I met him the next day, and the same took place for two or three days or more—eventually I told him that I did not like standing under the arcade so much, and an appointment was then made to be at a beer shop at the corner of Tooley-street, kept by a man named Waller, or some such name, Wallis—I went there, and met Tester and Pierce—Tester produced two keys; they were new keys of Chubb's make—I told him that I must take one of them up stairs for a few minutes, at which he rather hesitated for a moment; he said, could not I do it there?—I said, I should prefer going up stairs—I rang the bell, and asked the waiter if I could go up stairs and wash my hands—he called the chamber maid, and she showed me up into a bed room; and I there took the impression of one of the keys; both keys were alike—I should say they were both for one lock, they were duplicate keys—I took two or three impressions on some wax—I then came down stairs, and returned the keys to Tester, and he went away, and I and Pierce went.
Q. At this time, were you in the habit of see Burgess? A. Yes; we were in the habit of meeting Burgess; we always knew what train Burgess was upon, and if we had not any appointment made with him, we used to go to Sterne's and meet, and when he came in, if we had anything particular to talk about we used to go out into the dark—Sterne kept a public house in Tooley-street or a turning into Tooley-street, frequented by the servants of the company—I saw Burgess after taking the impressions of the key, I stated to him that we had one, that was half way, but the one was very
little use without the other—the first time of my going to Sterne's beer shop was with Pierce; I met him there several times afterwards—I and Pierce and Burgess talked the matter over, how we could obtain the second key—it was proposed that I should go down to Folkestone and stop at the Pavilion Hotel, and Pierce was to send a letter to me in the name of Archer, stating that he would forward a box to me containing 600l. or 700l.—I was possessed of money at that time, I advanced, I think, between 200l. and 300l. for that purpose, in sovereigns—I went down to Folkestone on a Saturday, and stopped at the Pavilion—I received a letter from Pierce through the post—I destroyed that letter; it stated that he would forward a box down to me in the care of either Ledger or Chapman—I do not know which, and that he had insured it to the value of 600l. or 700l., I forget which—it was to be sent in a small box, to be insured at the London terminus in the usual way and directed for E. A Archer, to the care of one or other of those persons at the Folkestone station—I received the letter on the Saturday—I went to the office in the harbour, produced the letter to Chapman or Ledger, I do not remember rightly which it was that was in the office, and asked them if they had a box for me—they said it had not then arrived; and I told them I was stopping at the Pavilion if one should arrive—I inquired again on the Sunday; it had then arrived—I went to the upper station to see the train arrive and the iron chest put out—it was taken out in the ordinary way—it was then forwarded to the lower station—I walked down to the lower station and showed my letter to Chapman; Chapman stated that he believed he had got the box for me—I saw Chapman open the safe—he only used one key—there were two locks on the safe; but by unlocking one the safe opened, there was only one key used at that time—I noticed that he took that key from a cupboard at the back of the office, on the left hand going in—he took the box out and told me I must sign a form for the receipt of it—I told him that I was not able to do so as I had met with an accident and hurt my finger, and I would trouble him to do it for me, and he did so; he filled it up for me and said, I must get you to sign it, and I signed it in the name of E. R. Archer (looking at a paper)—this signature is my writing; the other part is in Chapman's—(read: "South Eastern Railway—Specie and Finance Way Bill, London to Folkestone, Oct. 30th, 1854; received the under—mentioned case in iron chest, J. Burgess, guard—address and destination, Ledger—of whom received, Wilkins, Basinghall-street—character of contents, gold and silver—value insured, 300l.—signed Weatherhead, S. M.—package addressed Archer, Pavilion Hotel, Folkestone—Received the above, C. J. Chapman, harbour master, Folkestone—Received the above, E. R. Archer, owner")—having obtained the parcel, I went with it to the Pavilion Hotel and asked the porter for a knife, opened it and took out the bag of gold—I believe the sovereigns that I gave to Pierce to put in that box were got from the Bank of England, but I am not quite positive of that—I came up from Folkestone, I believe, that same night, I then had an interview with Pierce; I communicated to him where the key was kept, and it was agreed that Pierce and I should go down to Dover—I also saw Burgess after my return—I stated to him where the key was kept—Pierce and I did go to Dover about a week after the receipt of the box—I cannot say at what time we arrived there, it was about mid-day—we stopped at the Rose, a commercial house just by the market place, opposite the church—we did not stop at the Rose a very long while—we walked over the hills to Folkestone the same day, by the sea coast—I cannot state the time exactly
that we got there—we went there to watch the arrival of the boat from Boulogne—we waited till she came in, and went down to the harbour—I noticed that Ledger and Chapman generally when the boat arrived left their office, and went out to search the passenger's luggage—when the boat arrived we were down on the harbour, and we saw Chapman and Ledger leave the office—I and Pierce went to the door of the harbour master's office where the clerks kept the key—I stood at the door—there is only one door—it is facing the water—Pierce went in to the cupboard, and brought the key to me—I took the impression of it, and gave it to him back, and he put it into the cupboard again—the door of the office was on the latch, not locked—I cannot say whether the cupboard from which Pierce took the key, was locked, but I supposed it was not, or he would not be able to get the key—I did not take any notice of the cupboard door; I was looking to see that Chapman did not come back—we returned to Dover the same day, and had our tea at the Rose, and after tea we returned to London by the train—after I had obtained the impression of the second key, I met Burgess in London, and communicated to him the success we had met with in getting the second key, and we said that it was a very good job we should be able to complete the robbery, and he said that he would do all that lay in his power to do so—he lived at New-cross at that time—there is a house near there called the Marquis of Granby, parting the road from Lewisham to Greenwich—I met him there on one or two occasions—Pierce was with me, and I think Tester, but I will not be sure—I met Burgess there several times—I next proceeded to make keys for the bullion chest from the impressions—as I had not the convenience to make them at Pierce's house, I and Miss Kay made up our altercation that we had, and I got the keys made at Cambridge villas—I finished them myself—I filed the blanks to the impression—at this time Pierce lived at Walnut-tree-walk—I began the filing in an empty room over the gateway in his house—there was a difference between me and Fanny Kay—she was living in Harleyford-road, Vauxhall, and I used to go backwards and forwards there—she was living as my wife—I had had a child by her—we made up our difference, and I took a house at Cambridge-villas, and she went to live with me—it was there that I went on finishing the keys—Pierce at that time lived at Walnut-tree-walk, and from there he removed to Crown-terrace, or Crown-place, Hampstead-road—I cannot rightly state the time I had been at Cambridge-villas before Pierce removed to Crown-terrace—after he removed there, he was in the habit of coming to Cambridge-villas—he assisted me to remove there from Harleyford-road—he was at Cambridge-villas, and assisted me to make a file, and any little thing I wanted him to do he did—we used to do that in the wash house adjoining the garden—the tools I used were files, and a hammer and chisel, whitesmith's tools—they were my tools, and were kept in a wooden box painted green, and also in a small wainscot box—these are them (produced), and here are some of my took—here are two in particular which I know—while the filing was going on, and after the keys were finished, an arrangement was made between me and Burgess and Pierce to go down and try them with the safe—we used to communicate to Tester, as we proceeded, what progress we had made—I was to go down with Burgess, and if he had the chest, to try them—I went down seven or eight times to try them; I travelled by the train as a second or a first class passenger, and if he had got the chest, I used to get into the van and try the keys, at Reigate, or any other place—I tried them five or six times, and altered them if they did not fit, and they at last
opened it—Burgess was always the guard, I never tried them except when he was guard, he saw me open it—after I had succeeded, I met Pierce and Tester at Burgess's house often; and it was stated to him that the safe was all ready, and that they were waiting till Burgess got on to the mail train—the tidal train is the train by which bullion is generally sent, but at certain times it would go by the mail train; any bullion that came after the tidal train had gone, was sent on by the mail—it was the mail train that was robbed—we had a meeting at Burgess's, to state what was to be done with the property, and how we were to go down to complete the robbery—I can speak to Burgess, Pierce, and myself being present—it was 12, 000l. worth of gold we thought, and we were to get shot to make that weight—we calculated that the 12, 000l. worth of gold would weigh about two cwt.—12, 000l. was spoken of, as we thought that would be as much as me and Pierce would be able to carry—I and Pierce went to the shot tower, over by the Suspension-bridge—Pierce went and bought one cwt., placed it in two small carpet bags, and brought it to the gate, he had one, and I had the other; we walked across the Suspension-bridge, got on an omnibus, and took the shot to Cambridge-villas—Pierce repeated the visit to the shot tower, and bought 50 lbs. twice again, making two half cwts.—I did not go the second time, or the third time, I only went once, and he bought the half cwts. at two different times—the bags were at first placed in the parlour, and afterwards they were taken out of the canvas bags in which they were, and placed in my trunk; they were brought in canvas bags—we afterwards weighed it into 8 lbs. and 4 lbs. parcels, and they were placed in some blue check bags—Fanny Kay was at home when I arrived, and a servant named Charlotte Paynter—they were the only persons, except my child, who lived in that house—my trunk was in the first floor bed room; the house consists of two rooms on the ground floor, and three on the first floor; there are no rooms above the first floor—the room I speak of was that in which I and Fanny Kay slept—the trunk always remained there until I came away, but the shot was taken from there, and placed in the wash-house in this box (the one produced) for the convenience of weighing it into 8 lbs. and 4 lbs. parcels—I do not think Fanny Kay had any opportunity of seeing us put the shot up in parcels; if she had opened the box she would have seen it, but I do not think she had curiosity enough to do so; at times it was open, and at times it was locked—I had the key—after that had been done, we had about 10 lbs. or 12 lbs. of shot more than we required, and me and Pierce carried it out in our pockets, and distributed it, in the fields, and the road, in the neighbourhood of Pierce's house, in Crown-terrace—we then had four leather courier bags made with a strap to sling over the shoulder, and go under the arm—Pierce and me ordered them together, at the corner of Drury-lane and Queen-street—we fetched them, and then tested them; we carried them with the shot to Cambridge-villas, and in so doing a few of the stitches came undone—I made some wax ends, and sewed them up at my place—they were made of drab leather—they had such a strap as this round this box, but this is not one of them—the shot was removed to Pierce's house, Crown-terrace, in carpet bags, by a cart and horse which Pierce got—the courier bags were placed inside the carpet bags with the shot—one bag, a black leather one, was made on purpose for Tester, I had it made for him; we four met together and asked Tester to come down to Reigate, and take part of the gold up, which would lighten our load, on his return to London—he consented, and I got that bag made for him, and placed it in the carpet
bag with the others—the shot was in the bag, and all these arrangements made at Pierce's house—I first saw that bag about a month or two before the robbery took place, I cannot speak accurately—all was then in readiness for the robbery—when Burgess got on the mail train, an arrangement was made that me, Pierce, Tester, and Burgess should meet at London-bridge on certain days which were picked out from the list of tidal trains; I am speaking now of the time when Burgess was on the tidal train, and I and Pierce went to St. Thomas's-street in the Borough in a cab with the carpet bag and the tools for breaking open the boxes—we hired the cab either at the cab stand by Chalk-farm or by the Red Cap—we did not go from Pierce's house, we walked a little way to the cab—Pierce had on a black wig and whiskers, and a cloak—he carried the two courier bags, one on each side, and a carpet bug in his hand,' and I had a cloak and two courier bags, and a carpet bag containing the shot—that was the first occasion—we drove to St. Thomas's-street, near the hospital—I got out, and left Burgess in the cab—I took my courier bag off, and my cloak—I walked according to appointment, and met Tester, who stated that there was none going down that night—we repeated that for five or six nights; I will not say exactly, but as many as that—Tester was the man that I generally used to see—I saw Burgess on one occasion—on all those occasions we found that the bullion chest was not going down, and we went back to the neighbourhood of Crown-terrace, and then carried the bags—when Tester came to the cab he had a conversation with Pierce at the window, general conversation about the robbery, but what the words were I cannot tax my memory with now; I learned, while out, that the bullion chest was not going down, and then he would come and have a conversation with Pierce, who was in the cab—I remember on one occasion being at a coffee shop in College-street, not on the night of the robbery, that was by the turnpike gate; but, previous to that, Pierce carried the large bag over his shoulder to a coffee house near the Eagle in Camden-town, left me there with my two courier bags and carpet bag, while he went home to make himself up with his wig, and bring the other things out, and he brought a cab, and we went together to London-bridge—on the night of the robbery, we were in a coffee house in High-street, Camden-town, near the Southampton Arms, near the turnpike gate—we walked there, and I and Pierce went in and had our tea, and Pierce left the bag, with the two large carpet bags, and the two courier bags; and, after some time, he returned with a cab—I lifted the large bag in, and we drove to St. Thomas's-street—we had each the two courier bags, and, when we reached there, I got out and went to the station as usual, and Burgess came out and wiped his face, which was the signal agreed upon that the chest was going down—he was at the gate of the station where carriages drive in, I do not know the name of it—he then went to his train, and I went to St. Thomas's-street, and found Pierce where I had left him—I got into the cab and told the cab man to drive to the Dover station—while he was driving to the station, I placed the two courier bags on and the cloak—I saw Tester between the outer station and the incline—he said in a hurried voice, "All right," and went towards the office to get his ticket, as I judged—I went and got two first class tickets, and gave the two carpet bags to the porter, telling him that they were for Dover, and to wait till I came—I kept on my courier bags—I gave one of the first class tickets to Pierce, and went on to the platform—Pierce got into a first class carriage, and I walked to the guard's box, saw the carpet bags, and said they were for Dover—they were given to Burgess, and he put them into his van—the small leather bag was inside one of the large bags—it was
within a few minutes of the time for the train to start—I then walked on; and, when Mr. Weatherhead, the superintendent's back was turned, I got in at one of these small doors (pointing to a model of the, van), where there is a break generally—it is the guard's place—that is where the bags were put—I got into a corner, and Burgess threw his apron over me while he took the baggage in—I saw the luggage in previous to my getting in—this inner door that slides was open when I got in—Burgess closed it after the train started.
COURT. Q. Were you in the receptacle for luggage till the train started? A. Yes; in the receptacle for the guard.
MR. BODKIN. How long did you remain there? A. Five or ten minutes, but the time passed very long being in that position—after the train started I got up and got in here, where I found the two iron safes—I went into the luggage compartment as soon as the train started—I opened the iron safe and took out one of the boxes—this is one of the boxes (produced); it was fastened by these iron bands and nails through the head, and it was sealed—I had a pair of pincers to raise the iron, and box wood wedges to raise the wood part with a mallet—upon wing those things, I opened the box without much difficulty—I found in the box bars of gold—I took out the bars of gold, I think it was four that were in that box; I would not speak to the number, I believe it to be four—I placed one of them in the black bag for Tester to take, and gave it to Burgess—Burgess placed it for Tester to take, as was arranged previously—the others I packed up in the carpet bags that we had, and fastened up the box and replaced it in the iron safe—I put into the box these bags of shot, four pounds and eight pounds—they are the bags of which I have spoken, done up in the blue check—Burgess placed the black bag, for Tester, in the front part, where he stood, the guard's department—we had arrived at Reigate by this time; the train stopped there—I was then in the baggage department.
Q. Did you see, whilst the train was at Reigate, what became of the black bag? A. I do not know what became of it, further than I gave it to Burgess, and I heard Tester's voice, and I saw no more of it till the next morning—Tester said, "Where is it, where is it?"
COURT. Q. Am I to understand that you heard Tester's voice in the van? A. At the door—I do not know what part; I was in the back part, there (pointing to the model), but I heard his voice.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You did not see him at all? A. I did not—I cannot say what time it was when we got to Reigate—Pierce then got in and joined me in the baggage department—we then opened the same iron safe that the box was in, there was another small box containing American gold coin—I opened that and took the coin out, I do not know the amount of that—we took the bag of coin out, and placed shot in, screwed it down again, placed the seal on the box, and put it in the safe again—I saw those boxes yesterday, in one of the courts here—I screwed the second box down with screws, the other I fastened with iron hoops—we had got some steel seals that had been purchased previously, with initials on—I do not know the initials—we melted the wax by a small wax taper, and resealed them—the smaller box, containing the American gold coin, was opened in the presence of Pierce—I then placed them in the iron safe, and locked the iron safe; and then opened the second iron safe, which contained one box; we opened that box in the same manner as I have previously stated—that contained small bars of gold—we took some of that out; as much as we thought we had shot to replace, placed the shot in, and fastened it up in the same way—the train proceeded on to Folkestone; I and Pierce went on to
Dover—the shot we used was not all of one size; it was two different sizes, one smaller than the other—the gold was placed in the courier bags and the carpet bags—when we got to Dover, I took one carpet bag, Pierce took the other, having the courier bags on us—we walked out of the station to an hotel, I think it was the Dover Castle—Mrs. Divers, or some such name—I am not positive whether I got out of the train at Folkestone, or whether I rode in the guard's box, but Pierce had got out previously and taken his seat in a first class carriage, with the courier bag upon him—I am not positive whether I was in the guard's box, or in a first class carriage, when I arrived at Dover—I think I was in a first class carriage, but I will not speak positively on that point—the carpet bags were in the luggage department, the guard's van—I believe the train was due at Dover about 11 o'clock at night—when we went to this house we walked into the coffee room, and placed the bags under the window, in one corner, and ordered supper—while the waiter was gone to get the supper, we took the courier bags off and placed them down in the corner—the waiter inquired if we wanted beds; I told him no, we had driven in, and were going up by the mail train—the mail train leaves Dover at 2 o'clock in the morning—after supper, I took the tools that I had used, the mallet, chisels, and that, to the pier, and threw them away, to lighten our load; I returned back again; Pierce was left in the room—we paid our bill, and then asked the waiter to put us a little brandy up in a soda water bottle, and a few cigars—while he was gone for it, we replaced our courier bags on our shoulders—he brought us the brandy in the soda water bottle, and the cigars; I then took one bag, and Pierce the other, and we walked to the station—we did not take tickets for London; the porter met me at the gate, and wanted to take the bag; he very politely said he would carry it—I objected to his doing so; he offered to take it out of my hand—he asked if we had tickets—I said we had two coupons from the Ostend line—we had two Ostend tickets—Pierce had obtained them previous to starting from London—they were blue tickets—I do not know whether I had them at Dover, or whether Pierce had them, or whether we had one each—the porter asked me to show our luggage—I showed them, and he said there had been no baggage through the Custom House that day from Ostend; I at the same time put my hand in my pocket, where I had a little trifling silver, a few shillings; I put them in his hand, and said, "No; we got them through yesterday," and he passed away and left us—no further inquiries were made—we came up in a first class carriage—no one was in the carriage but ourselves—Burgess was guard of that train—I did not notice how many passengers came up by that train; there were not a very great many, but I did not notice particularly; there were not a very great many, not at starting—as we came along the line we opened the large bags, and distributed the hay, threw it away—when the train stopped at one of the stations, I do not know the name of it, Pierce got out, took the two large carpet bags, and left them in the waiting room—they were then empty; we had thrown the hay away as we came along—the gold and the coin were then in two small carpet bags that had been inside the large ones, and in the courier bags—the train arrived at the London bridge station at it's usual time in the morning; I do not remember the exact time; I think 5 o'clock was the time it was due, but I am not positive—I and Pierce got it, and walked down the station, carrying the small bags in our hands, and the courier bags on us under our cloaks; when we got outside the gate we took a cab, and told the cab man to drive to the Great Western—when we got near the Great Western we told the cab man that he was making a
mistake, that we wanted to go to Euston-square, and he drove us to Euston-square—we got out, and went to a public house that was open, and went into the parlour—we discharged the cab, and stayed there some little time—Pierce then went and fetched another cab, and we drove to the neighbourhood of Crown-terrace—we discharged the cab, and carried the bags to Pierce's house—we left the gold at Pierce's house, came out and took a cab, and drove down to London-bridge—we took the American coin with us—we discharged the cab, and I went and met Tester to receive the bar of gold that he had had the night before—that was the arrangement that was made, that I should meet him there—Tester gave me the bar of gold—I took it from him, and he went to his office, I believe—I and Pierce took a cab, and drove to Leadenhall-street, down by the side of the East India House—Pierce got out and went to a money changer's at the corner of St. Mary Axe, and there he sold part of the American coin—I remained in the cab with the bar of gold—when Pierce returned to the cab, he told me he had got upwards of 200l. for the American coin, but I do not know the full amount—he stated that they wanted to pay him in a cheque, and he refused that, and wanted English gold; he said they told him that if he would wait a bit they would send their man to the banker's for it, which he did, according to the report he gave me, and he brought English gold for it; we then drove to the Haymarket, to a money changer's on the right hand side of the way going from Pall Mall, nearly at the top—I do not know the name—Pierce went out, and sold there some more of the American coin, upwards of 200l. worth—that was the whole that remained of what we had brought out—they paid him with a cheque on the Union Bank, Pall Mall—I went there and presented it, and received 200l. in gold for it—I had the money in my possession in the cab, but when we got back to Pierce's house he had it—we drove back to Pierce's house, at least we did not drive up to the door, we got out in the neighbourhood—Pierce had the money, the proceeds of the sale of the American coin—I was not at all in want of money at that time—Pierce had no money, he was supporting himself by pledging his things, and what money I lent him; he was in destitute circumstances—when we arrived at Pierce's house, Pierce went and hired a cart, as he told me, in Grove-street; at all events, he brought a cart and horse, we placed the bag containing the gold in it, and drove to my place at Cambridge-villas—I and Pierce went with the cart; the courier bags were placed in the carpet bags, and we carried them in the cart to Cambridge-villas—Fanny Kay was at home when we arrived there—the bags were put first in the front parlour, and then I took them up stairs and placed them in my trunk that was in the bed room, the same trunk in which I had kept the shot, it was an American made trunk—Pierce did not go up stairs, he took the horse and cart back again—I did not see anything more of him that day—I saw him again, it must have been the next day or a day or two after, I could not say rightly now, it was very soon afterwards—I did not see either of the other prisoners for some time afterwards—when I did see Pierce it was at my own house, he called upon me.
Q. What did you proceed to do with the gold? A. There was 100 ounces cut off at first; Pierce was there at the time it was cut off, and he sold it for 3l. per ounce—that was very shortly after the robbery—he did not bring back the money for it, he accounted for it; I do not know whether he took it to the bank and got notes for it, or whether he kept it for some time; I had the money, it wag 300l.—it was then arranged that we should make a furnace and melt the gold—Pierce consented to bring some
fire bricks to make the furnace of—I pulled the common stove out of the first floor back room at Cambridge-villas, and there erected the furnace with, the assistance of Pierce—Pierce brought the stones in a horse and cart—(some stems were here produced)—that is one of them; I know it by this hole; it was chipped out on purpose to cause a draught stronger through the furnace—I see here a piece of gold now sticking to it—having erected the furnace, we procured some crucibles and an ingot to run the gold in in melting, to put the gold in another form, to east it into long ingots of 100 oz.; we had a pair of scales and weights—Pierce bought some of the crucibles, and I bought some—we proceeded to cut the gold bars, 100 oz. off at a time, melted them in the furnace, and poured them into the ingot—we melted them in the crucibles by charcoal and coke—it requires very great heat to melt gold—on one occasion, when I was taking one of the crucibles out of the furnace, it broke, and the gold scattered over the floor and burnt the flooring—nobody came into the room besides me and Pierce while we were so engaged—Miss Kay brought some bitter ale to the door once or twice, but we would not allow her to come in—she said, "You seem very hot; what are you about? you seem all in a perspiration"—I made some frivolous answer that it was nothing concerning her, or something to that effect, and shut the door—I do not remember anything being said about aprons—we cut up the courier bags, and part was used as a defender to prevent the fire from burning my hands; those we burnt, and a part were kept to make a covering for one of my trunks to defend it, the rest was burnt—(looking at two pieces of leather) these are part of them—that is where it was burnt by the fire—it took me three or four days to melt the gold—the heat was so great we were obliged to put the fire out for fear of setting fire to the chimney—Pierce remained with me all day on those days—he had his meals with me—on the 'first day Fanny Kay went to see the child; it was out at nurse at that time; then there was no one in the house but me and Pierce; we sent her away on purpose—she was at home when the bricks were brought—they were brought in a cart in a canvas bag I think; or covered over with something—I think Pierce brought some cement or some charcoal on the day Fanny Kay went to see the child—they were things that were to be used in the melting, and which we could not procure in the neighbourhood—Pierce went home of a night to sleep.
Q. After you had melted the whole of the gold and got it into this new shape of the ingot, what did you next do? A. I sold part of it—I sold 200 oz. the first time—I sold that to a man named Saward—I had known Saward several years—when I first became acquainted with him he kept chambers at No. 4, Hare-court, Temple, as a barrister—I have seen him at Westminster-hall, pleading as a barrister sometimes—it was in Bell's Pond road that I saw him when I had this dealing with him about the gold, at a public-house of the sign of the Alma—I think I sold him 500 oz. in all; 200 the first time and 300 afterwards—he paid me 3l. 2s. 6d. per oz. for it—he paid me in gold—he charged 6d. or 1s. per oz. commission—about this time I had another little quarrel with Fanny Kay, in consequence of which I left her at Shepherd's-bush and took apartments at Kilburn—I went by the name of Adams there—I left Fanny Kay in possession of the house at Cambridge-villas; I merely took my trunk—we had removed the gold previous to that to Crown-terrace, Pierce's house—I do not think it had been moved to Pierce's before I sold that to Saward—about this time Pierce moved from Crown-terrace to Kilburn-villa, about half a mile nearer to London than where I was lodging—I left my lodging, and went and stopped
with Pierce a little while, and then I took apartments in Stanley-place, Paddington-green, where I resided at the time I was arrested upon the charge of which I was convicted, which was on 15th Aug.—I lived in Pierce's house with him about a week, or it might be a fortnight—during the time I was there Tester and Burgess both came there by appointment which I had made—when we were all four together it was named what money there was, and a division took place—I and Pierce and Tester received 600l. each, and Burgess received 700l.—that was the produce of the gold that had been sold and the American coin—they received it in notes, all of it—we had received it in gold, and Pierce took the gold to the Bank of England and obtained notes for it—the notes that I received as my share 600l. were in my trunk at Stanley-terrace at the time I was arrested—Pierce had the remainder of the gold—he made a hole in the pantry at the bottom of the stairs of his own house at Kilburn-villa, and there he buried it, under the steps which go into the house from the front garden—there is a fore court to the house—you ascend to the house by four or five steps—the pantry is underneath those steps, and he made the hole in the pantry—we were together for some time on the evening that the division was made—I stopped there rather late, all the busses had gone—I walked with Tester and Burgess to the cab stand by the canal bridge that runs across the Paddington road, and they got into a cab. and came to town.
Q. Were you at the time of the robbery, and afterwards, in possession of any Spanish bonds? A. I had 700l. worth—they were 100l. bonds, I believe—I had bought them through Mr. Young, a stockbroker, of Bartholomew-lane—that was some considerable time before the robbery, I do not remember when—I sold 500l. worth of those bonds to Tester on the night of the division at 48l. per 100l.—he paid me for them with part of the notes that he had received as his share of the division—I never saw anything more of the remaining gold—the Spanish bonds are payable to bearer, transferble through a stockbroker—on the morning that I was arrested I saw Pierce at his house, and made an appointment with him to meet me at my lodging in Stanley-place at 2 o'clock, to walk to Shepherd's-bush to obtain the child's clothes and chaise—he had the child at that time, he fetched it from the nurse the day before—he met me at 2 o'clock at Stanley-place, we then walked across the fields to Shepherd's-bush—he went into a public house, and I went into Fanny Kay's lodging, and fetched the child's clothes and chaise, and gave them to Pierce—I there stopped and wrote a letter to send to the nurse, with part of the chaise which they had destroyed, which I intended to send by the Parcels Delivery Company—after writing that letter I got into the bus about 4 o'clock, or a quarter past 4, to come to Holborn to keep an appointment that was made previously by a man named Humphries—I was taken into custody on my way, with the note and parcel in my hand—I afterwards made an arrangement with Pierce with respect to the care of my child—I never saw him afterwards until he was arrested—I only heard from him through Mr. Wontner—I had stock to the amount of 3, 000l. at the time—Mr. Wontner had that money, and he gave it over to Pierce's wife to invest for the benefit of my child and its mother, Fanny Kay.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. (with MR. RIBTON. for Pierce). Q. How old are you? A. Forty-one—I have been in employment—I was at Mr. Davis's for one place, in Chiswell-street, a linendraper—I was there for four years—that is fourteen years ago probably, it might be twenty years—I could not say positively—I will not venture to say whether or not it was twenty-two years ago—there was not a robbery there while I was there, nor
shortly after I left, to my knowledge—I have never been in any employment since then—I have earned my living by speculating in the United States of America, buying various things—I have been to America several times—I do not know the date of my first going to America—it was not ten years after leaving Mr. Davis, probably five years—it might be five and it might be three, I cannot say—between the time I left Mr. Davis and the time of my going to America I lived on what I had got—I decline answering how I had got it—I was not engaged in forgeries—I never was engaged in forgeries—I decline answering what it was—I did not know Saward then—I decline answering how I got my living then—I speculated in America in various things, not in crime—I did not commit robberies whilst I was in America, or pass cheques—I had no cheques or bills—I have known Saward I should say probably six years; it may be longer.
Q. Is he now under charge of forgery? A. I know not what he is under charge of, I will swear that—I have been in prison—I did not see Saward at the Mansion House—I do not know that he is arrested—I never knew Saward by any other name than "barrister Saward," or "James Saward"—I have never had anything to do with him in the way of cheques—I have discounted bills for him—I have not had any transactions with cheques with him—I never presented a forged cheque in my life, nor ever caused any to be presented—I can swear that I never committed a forgery, or ever caused a forgery to be committed in my life—I am perfectly innocent of the charge I was convicted of—I was convicted upon false evidence—I never presented a forged note—I have received the proceeds of forgeries: I forget how much, a small amount—I should call a few thousands a very great amount—I had 3, 000l. in the bank, and it had been there for some years, a portion of it—that stock was purchased before this robbery took place—the 600l. Pierce had, your client—the charge I was convicted upon was a charge of uttering a forged cheque for 100l.—I was caught running away with a bag of farthings instead of sovereigns in my possession—I was tried in this Court, I believe.
Q. You tell us that you filed these keys; what were you originally by calling? A. I can work at almost anything, I worked at jewellery and carpentering—I can make jewellery.
Q. And bars of gold also? A. Well, there is proof of that—I do not know whether Pierce was a betting man, I never knew him to have any money to bet—whilst this robbery was being perpetrated I was in the railway carriage which was in motion on the railway.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. (with MR. SLEIGH. for Tester). Q. You decline to tell my Mend how you were gaining your livelihood for the three years after you left the linendraper's establishment? A. Yes—I have no particular motive for declining—I decline on the ground that I am not bound to answer—I will not answer the question unless I am compelled to do so—I am not afraid—if I am compelled so to do, I will—I am not afraid of the consequences to myself—I am not afraid of being subjected to a prosecution—I decline to answer—I had known Tester between three and four years.
Q. How was it, do you think, that Pierce suggested to you to be a party to this robbery? did he know you to be a rogue? A. He was introduced to me by two thieves, and at once opened the business, and found himself quite at home—I did not say that the first time I saw Tester was down at Margate—I did see him there, and went with him to his lodgings and took tea with him—when you went out of the station, you turned to the left and the house faced you, I do not know the
name of the place.—I have been down to Margate several times—I may have given a description of the place to the prosecution—he occupied the front parlour—an elderly female who kept the house served the tea; I do not know her name—I did not see anybody else there; I did not sleep there, I slept at a public house of the sign of the "Elephant," where Tester went and partook of a glass of grog with me in the smoking room—I met Tester on one occasion at Folkestone, and walked arm in arm with him from the up station; we usually used to walk arm in arm when we met—I say, we did so on that occasion, because we always did so, that is my only motive—I did not always walk arm in arm with him in London, I did when I met him out of town—I will not say positively, there might be an exception, but generally speaking we always walked arm in arm when I met him out of town—I am positive we walked arm in arm from the up station—I do not know whether anybody saw us arm in arm or not; it is impossible for me to say—the division of the plunder was, as near as my recollection will admit of, about two months after the robbery—it was Tester's own proposition that he should buy the Spanish bonds—he did not know that I had Spanish bonds to sell—he asked me which was the best way for him to invest his money: I told him that Spanish bonds were paying 7 per cent, and it was merely transferring a bit of paper, I had some that I bought, at 47, or something thereabout, and I would sell them to him at 48—he consented to do so, and took 500l. worth of them at 48l., without making any further inquiry—I told him whom I had purchased them of—I believe the market price was about 47 at the time—I do not know when it was I purchased them, the bill was in my trunk when I was arrested, it was some long time before, I could not state the time—I have not any of these Spanish bonds left, I had 200, Pierce had it, it was in my trunk when I was arrested, and Pierce had the remaining 200—I have not seen him since—I was arrested on a charge of uttering a forged cheque, you defended me.
Q. The evidence, and almost the only evidence against you, was that of an accomplice. A. He was not an accomplice of mine, I never knew the man—he said he was an accomplice—every word he said was a lie, you stated so yourself—Mr. Mullens was a witness against me, but he never gave any evidence against me till the day of my trial, and then he stated that he saw me outside the bank; he did not state what was true, he stated that I was outside the bank and I was at Shepherd's-bush at the time—Mr. Mullens was solicitor for the prosecution—he stated an untruth on his oath.
Q. You were a good deal upon this line, were you not? A. I was travelling up and down; I did not call myself anything, I left it to Burgess—I went to try the keys in the safe, when I had got them—I used not to travel except with a view to this robbery, I had no occasion on that line—I was called a commercial traveller, I have called myself so—I did not tell Tester that I was a commercial traveller; if any stranger asked me the question, I said so—Tester knew I was a thief, I was introduced to him as such—I have represented myself as a commercial traveller at any hotel I was stopping at—I had no communication with anybody on the line with the exception of the prisoners and the man at Folkestone also—I tried to get the impressions of the keys from the company's servant; I tried to get the keys from him—I did not try to get him to betray his trust, on my oath—I endeavoured to get the impressions of the keys unknown to the servants down there; none of them knew what I was there for—I did not try to make Sharman betray his trust—I did not try to make him an
accomplice with me—I got into communication with him, to be familiar with him, and when his back was turned, to get the keys from their place—that was part of the plan between me and Tester—I was wandering up and down the line for that purpose—I do not mean to state that Tester corrupted my innocence—I have said that I could not make any impression upon Sharman—I mean by that, I could not form any connection with him, so as to be in the office while he was there, issuing tickets, or so on.
Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. (with MESSRS. GIFFARD. and LEWIS. for Burgess). Q. How many names have you gone by? A. Three or four—Adams, Archer, Agar, which is my own name, and the other names were what Tester gave me—I have gone by the name of Roberts—Pierce gave me that name—I answered to any name they thought proper to call me—I first stated what I have told to-day, down at Portland—I first had a communication with Mr. Bees—I did not, when I first saw him, tell him that Burgess had nothing whatever to do with it—Mr. Bees did not mention Burgess's name tome; he mentioned no names—I did not, on any occasion, say that Burgess had nothing whatever to do with it, that I swear—I have never said so—after I came back from Folkestone, I communicated with Burgess—I do not remember ever saying that I did not communicate with Burgess—I do not remember whether I have or not—we were in the habit of meeting Burgess and communicating to him what had taken place—these were not the first false keys that I had made, I made some for Pierce to commit the robbery at the South Eastern station; no others that I am aware of, I might have made others for what I know—I have received the proceeds of forgeries probably three or four times—the money I had in the Bank of England was not the proceeds of forgeries—I obtained it by hard work and speculations, as I said before, in the United States; none of it was the proceeds of robberies—I never passed off any forged notes in America, or anywhere else; I have not passed off any notes that were stolen here—I saw Burgess several times after the robbery was committed, it would he impossible for me to tell the number of times I met him—I never saw him after the robbery until the night of the division.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You were asked how you got your living during a particular period of your life after you left the draper's and before you went to America, you state that you are not afraid of any prosecution in consequence of that? A. No, I am not—I did not state it, because Mr. Parry wished to force it out of me, and I was not bound to state it; that was the only motive I had for declining—I have no objection to state it—when I left Mr. Davis I had saved up a sum of money, nearly 50l—I kept myself by that for some considerable time, and pledging my clothes, and I was with a cousin of mine, a boot-closer—I used to assist him a little—I supported myself in that way until I went to the United States.
COURT. Q. There could be no reason why you should not hare told that? A. No, I had no objection; only Mr. Parry wished to force me.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You have been asked particularly about the case upon which you were convicted? A. Yes, it was for uttering a forged banker's check which a party stated I gave him—the man that gave the evidence against me gave the name of Smith—I know no further of him, whether that was his name or not I cannot say—I knew nothing of the man previous to his giving me in charge—there was a man named Humphries in it; he was an accomplice of Saward's and several others—at that time I was living with a female named Emily Campbell—Humphries was also acquainted with her—she bad at one time lived with him, and passed as Mrs. Humphries—she
was living with me at Stanley-place at the time the charge was made against me—Humphries was not examined as a witness; it was a vindictive feeling that was the cause of my being arrested—Mr. Mullens stated that which was not true; he said he was in a bank opposite, when the man went in to present the cheque, and to the best of his belief I was the man who was standing outside; he never stated it on any of the examinations—I was not there, I was at Shepherd's-bush at the time—I had never been in the city at any time that day until I was taken in charge—I was met by some man, who handed to me a bag containing farthings instead of sovereigns—he was standing at the corner of Bedford-row, where he could command a view of Humphries' house, as my appointment was to be at Humphries' house at 5 o'clock, to receive from him 235l., that I had lent him on the Monday previous—I had an appointment to meet him at his house and receive the 235l.—his house was a door or two from the corner of Bedford-row, where Smith was standing—this was on the day of my arrest—as I was going to Humphries', Smith was standing at the corner—he turned round and saw me coming down—he approached me and said, "Oh! I am watching for you, "—I asked what he was watching for me for, he said, that "Bill (meaning Humphries) had sent him to meet me, to tell me not to go to his house as there was a screw loose"—I asked him what it was about, walking my way at the same time—he said that he believed it was something about Captain Money's affair—Humphries had been arrested a week or two before, on a charge of attempting to steal Captain Money's child—in walking along, he said that Humphries had sent the 200/. by him, at the same time pulling a bag out of his pocket, and giving it me—by this time we had got near Red-lion-square—the police officers were watching—I asked him who those men were following—he said that he did not know.
Q. We need not go into the particulars; I believe directly after the police officers took you into custody? A. by his telling me to run away, he said, "I will stand here, and the officers won't know you are gone"—the moment I ran, he ran after me and called, "Stop thief!" and I stopped, and was taken into custody—Goddard, the officer, asked me if I had taken a bag from this man—I said I had—he asked where it was, and I produced it—he asked if I knew how much it contained—I said, 200l., I believed—I appealed to Smith, and asked if that was the case—he shook his head and said he did not know.
COURT. Q. You were trepanned into this by Humphries; that is your story? A. Yes.
MR. BODKIN. Q. At the time you sold the Spanish bonds to Tester, did you produce or show him Mr. Young's note of the purchase? A. I did not, I told him I would give it him, I had it not by me at the time—it was in my trunk—I got it out with a view of giving it him at the next meeting—it was found in my trunk at the time I was arrested.
COURT. Q. When did you begin to lead a course of crime, how early after you left Mr. Davis, about how soon? A. Probably about two or three years—I have been in business in South America, which can be proved; it was there that I made the greater part of my money—I continued more or less committing crimes until my arrest; from three years after I left Mr. Davis.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have not you stated before, in conversation with your fellow prisoners, and before you made a statement at Portland Island against Pierce and other men, boasted that you accomplished the robbery alone, and went over to Boulogne? A. No, I never boasted to anybody about it, to the prisoners or anybody else.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was Mr. Rees the first person that you made a statement to? A. Yes, connected with this robbery—I had not heard at the time that I made that statement to Mr. Bees that my child was in a state of destitution in London, but I had heard that Pierce had sent it to its mother—Pierce had the charge of it when I was arrested—I had heard that the mother was in a state of distress, and he had sent the child, but would not give it a change of clothing.
THOMAS SELLINS . I am bullion porter to Mr. John Chaplin, and have been so seven years. I know Messrs. Abel and Co., bullion brokers—before and in May, 1855, I was in the habit of calling at their place, to know respecting bullion which they required to be transmitted by railway—on 15th May I called there for the particulars of a box—I did not get them—I saw Mr. Rance, an elderly gentleman, there, and he told me to call again—I required the particulars to bring to Mr. Chaplin—I saw some gold bars in the window at that time—I called again about twenty minutes to 6 o'clock, as near as I can say—Mr. Chaplin was then out of town—I got the particulars, and when I came back, I met Mr. Chaplin at his office, and he gave me the receipt to go and fetch the box—I then went back with another porter to Abel's for the box—it was brought to the Spread Eagle—I saw it removed from there into a cab—Mr. Chaplin was standing at the side—I went outside the cab to the Dover station, and saw the box delivered—Mr. John Chaplin went with me, and booked it.
JOHN CHAPLIN . I sent Sellins to Messrs. Abel's for this box of gold—it was brought to me at the Spread Eagle, and delivered into my charge—it was never more than two or three yards from me—I went with it to the South Eastern Railway, and delivered it to Mr. Weatherhead, the station master.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTING. Q. TO whom would it be known that bullion was going that night? A. I sent our porter about twenty minutes before, but, to my knowledge, they could not know at the railway that bullion was going to Folkestone—until I received the receipt I did not even know that it was going—Mr. Weatherhead was the party with whom I arranged for its transmission—the Railway Company did not say that I never delivered it at all, they took an entry of it—it was even suggested to my knowledge that it was lost in the transit to the railway office.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. When did you arrive with the box at the South Eastern Railway? A. About half past 7 o'clock as near as possible—I delivered it to the station master on the platform—there is an office there—I saw it placed on the scale and weighed, and then taken into Mr. Weather-head's office and signed for—I believe this (produced) is the box, it has all the appearance of it.
EDGAR COX . In 1855 I was a clerk in Mr. Weatberhead's office at the South Eastern Railway. I speak of Mr. Weatherhead who is now governor of Newgate—he was then station master—I remember Mr. Chaplin bringing three boxes On the evening before the robbery; they were like those produced—I knew that they were supposed to contain bullion—they were placed on the side of the scale which is outside, on the platform, close to the door of the superintendent's office—the weights were taken by me—the box like this which is marked P. D. 184 weighed 1cwt. 1 qr. 16 lbs.—the box of Mr. Spiel man's weighed 18 lbs., and the other 2 cwt. 2 qrs. 15 lbs.—after they were weighed they were put on a truck or barrow, and taken into Mr. Weatherhead's office, where they remained
till the train was about to start—Tester was in Mr. Brown's office, the superintendent's, which is up stairs on the first floor—I do not think Tester in the course of his employment would have the means of ascertaining when bullion was going down—the book in which we enter the weights is in the station master's office near the platform—besides me there was a party named Bailey and Scanlan—Scanlan weighed them, and I took the weights from him.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Is that the identical box which was delivered by Mr. Chaplin to you? A. It has the same marks, that is the only thing I can swear to—it was taken from the cab, and weighed by my direction—I believe a party named Bailey carried it from the scale to the station master's office, but I cannot swear it—I believe he is here—it was in my sight the whole of the time.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Are there two porters who assist in loading the guards' van before the train starts? A. I believe not—the chests were put outside the office with 8.30 marked on them in large figures—that is the time the train starts—they were going by the 8.30 train, and any one outside the office could see that chalk mark, whether he was connected with them or not—that was not always the case—it was the course of business latterly—I cannot say for certainty how long this was the ordinary course of business in the office—it was done occasionally, but I cannot say the time.
HENRY GIBSON ABEL . I am a bullion merchant, carrying on business in Royal Exchange-buildings. On 15th May I sent six bars of gold to my agent in Paris—I had previously received from my refiner a certificate of the weight of those bars—I was present when they were weighed—I compared the weight with the certificate, it was perfectly correct—I have not got it here—it is subject to some slight difference, which is caused by the assay pieces, which are cut off the corner—the weight of the whole was 2, 125 1/2 ounces—the weight at the railway was 1 cwt. 1 qr. 16 lbs.—that was with the box and packing—I saw it packed in the box, and the box fastened down—the box was precisely similar to this, but I cannot swear to it—these are the initials of the consignee at Paris, to whom I sent it, P. D. 184—it was sealed—I do not think this seal on it is any part of our seal—(the witness examined it with a candle)—I swear that neither of these are our seals—we only seal them in one place.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I think you brought an action against the Company? A. No; we were going to—they resisted our claim from May to Dec, 1855, on the ground that the box was lost between Boulogne and Paris—they kept us out of our money the whole of that time, which we did not think very gentlemanly, if you ask me the question.
JOHN BAILEY . On 15th May, 1855, I was a porter at the South Eastern Railway station. I remember Messrs. Abel's box being brought—I saw it in the scale, and removed it from the scale to the truck, to be carried to the iron chests—I put in the three boxes of bullion, and Mr. Weatherhead locked the chests in my presence—there are two iron chests, the large box was in one, and the two small ones in the other—I believe Cox was by—the chest remained in Mr. Weatherhead's office till 5 or 10 minutes after 8 o'clock, and then I delivered them to Burgess, the guard, and put them into his van—I had two journeys of it, and he assisted me in putting them into the van.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you remember the particular
night of the 15th? you have alluded to the date? A. I remember taking them up as usual—I have a distinct remembrance of that particular night—Kennedy was a guard of that train that night—he is here.
JOHN KENNEDY . I was under guard to Burgess on the South Eastern Railway—I went with the 8.30 train, on 15th May, 1855—I was on the platform three-quarters of an hour before the train started, and continued there till it started.—the hinder van was under my management; I loaded it—it was not my duty to load the first van, Burgess loaded it—there were a good many passengers that night, and Burgess asked me to look round the train before we started, to see that the doors were all shut, and that the train was properly coupled together, as he was going out a little way—I do not know what became of him after that, I lost sight of him—I saw him return in probably a quarter of an hour,. I cannot speak to a few minutes—I went down with the train, having walked along it to see that the doors were shut, and everything right—it was going from London to Dover—I have seen Agar several times—I did not know his name to be Agar, but I saw the same man at the Mansion House—I had before that seen him with Burgess in Duke-street, that was in the latter end of April or the beginning of May, 1855, probably a fortnight or so before the robbery—it was at a public house—I do not know the name of it, but Mr. Bolton is the proprietor—there were several persons round the bar, but I know nothing of them—Burgess and Agar were talking together for perhaps five minutes—I said, "Good morning, Mr. Burgess," and he said, "Good morning"—I said nothing else at that time—I have not seen them together at any other time—I did not say just now that I had seen them together several times—I said that I bad seen Agar several times—I have seen him on the platform at the London-bridge Station—I have not seen him go down by any train—I have seen him about 8 o'clock—that was about half an hour before the train started—that has been the general time, from a quarter to 8 to 8 o'clock—Burgess was the guard of that train.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You went down with the train that evening, did not you? A. I did—I rode in the hind van—I got out at the stations; it is my duty—I never saw Burgess on the journey, from the time I left London till I got to Dover—I sometimes see passengers at the stations if they get out of one carriage into another.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Can you tell me what number of parcels you had? A. I was not in charge of the parcels—I did not deliver parcels on the way, that was Burgess's duty—he would have to get out at the stations, take the parcels, and deliver them to the party in attendance, whether it was the station master or the porter—if there were no parties there, it would not be his duty to take the parcels into the station himself—I cannot tell you whether he got out at a great many stations that night, or whether there were a great many parcels to deliver—I never saw him from the time we started till we got to Dover—at the intermediate stations I give the signal that I am ready at the hind part of the train to start—Burgess has started without that signal from me, but it is his duty to wait till I give it—I gave the signal to start on this particular occasion—I give it by lights, I hold a light at one end of the train, And it would be shown again at the other; that would be Burgess's duty—I cannot say that I received signals by light, from Burgess, at every station, but I did at probably one or two—I took no notice whether there was anything particular about that journey, or whether I received my signals as usual; it was the same as any other night—I saw nothing particular—I first heard of the
rubbery, it might be a week afterwards—I cannot tell to a day or two—I do not know who first spoke to me about it—I was not asked about it at first—I was told that such a thing had taken place with my train—I was examined by the lawyer; I cannot tell how soon after the robbery—I was not taken over as a witness to France—I never was there in my life—it was not my duty to go to Burgess's van at all, nor used I to do so, with the exception of Sunday night—the 15th May was, to the best of my recollection, Tuesday—the head guard receives the parcels from the porters, they bring them to the van—I was not there to see whether the door was wide open; "but in the ordinary course of things it is—if the head guard was away for a moment, and the doors were open, and anybody was there, they might step in—I was three months on that train—I do not know how often, on an average, the bullion box went down with the train—I have been in the company's service thirteen years—as under guard, it was my duty to open the doors of the carriages when there was an opportunity—I did when there was a chance—if I was opposite a door, and a passenger wanted to get out, I should open it, if I was not there somebody else would do it—I did not get out specially at every station to see whether any passenger wanted to get out; I certainly get out of the van at every station, that is to put my luggage out of the van, and to put luggage in; my van was not running empty, there was luggage in it—I have also to open the doors for passengers if they want to get out, and I am there—I also shut the windows up if they are open, and shut the doors when passengers have got out; and if a passenger gets in I open the door for him, provided it is shut, and anything else that is necessary—I have had no complaints of my not doing my duty on the night of 15th May—I did my duty to the beat of my ability, but a servant does not always know when his duty is done—it was not the first time I had seen Agar, when I saw him and Burgess talking together—I had seen him perhaps five or six times before, but had never said "Good morning" to him—I had seen him about London-bridge platform—I cannot tell you the first time I saw him, but it was about April—I cannot tell to a few days or weeks.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Were you in the habit of going with Burgess by the same train? A. Yes; I went with him two months—I had gone with him before that with other trains.
RICHARD HART . I live at the upper station, Folkestone. I remember the mail train arriving on the night of 15th May, 1855—I was at the upper station when it arrived, and saw the bullion chest taken out of it—Cook, the watchman, assisted in taking it out, and myself; I do not recollect anybody else—Burgess was present when it was taken out—it appeared to me as usual when I have seen it taken out (there are two of them)—I had it put on my truck after the train was gone, and took it to the harbour and delivered it to Spicer, the watchman—I was never absent from it.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you know how long it was left at Folkestone? A. No.
JOHN SPICER . On 15th May, I was night watchman at the lower station at Folkestone. I was on duty at half past 10 o'clock when the train arrived—I recollect the iron chests being taken out of the truck—they were taken into the booking office—I had charge of them during the night—they were not removed from the place where they were put, and nobody had access to them but myself—I left duty at half past 8 o'clock next morning—they were there then.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. How long was it at Folkestone?
A. I cannot say—I was on watch in the booking office—that is at the harbour, right opposite the telegraph office, inside, but on the platform of the booking office—it was not my duty to call up some of the hands that morning, but it is in the ordinary course of things—I have to call Mr. Dyne, the station master, and have to go about a quarter of a mile to do so—I was not taken over to France to be examined as a witness against the French railway—I gave my statement to the lawyer about it at the time the inquiry was going on in France, but he did not take me over.
ROBERT MACKAY . I am telegraph clerk at the lower station at Folke-stone. I was on duty on the night of the robbery, and was in the telegraph office moat part of the night—I was in the booking office and saw one of the bullion chests brought in—I was not there when the other was brought in, but I saw them standing one on the other, opposite the telegraph office—I was there all night, and from time to time saw them safe—they were not moved from the place where they were set down—I do not recollect their going off—I left at 8 o'clock—I do not know at what time they left—I did not notice them when I left—I noticed them up to the time that our own man came on duty at 6 o'clock.
JOHN MCNIE . In May, 1855, I was a police officer in the service of the South Eastern Company, at Folkestone. I remember coming on duty on the morning of 16th May, and Spicer pointing out to me two iron chests in the booking office—we generally term them bullion chests—I saw them taken down and delivered on board the boat, in the same condition in which I saw them first.
Cross-examined by Mr. GIFFARD. Q. Were you taken to France? A. No—I remember hearing of the trial that was going to take place in France—I did not give a statement to the lawyer of the South Eastern Company at that time; I was not asked.
COURT. Q. At what o'clock did the boat go? A. Between 8 and 11 o'clock, I cannot well answer the question.
JAMES GOLDER . In May, 1855, I was mate of the Lord Warden steam boat, between Folkestone and Boulogne. On 16th May, the boat started at half past 10 o'clock—I keep a log—I remember the iron safes coming on board that morning—I was present and received them, and placed them midships, on deck—they remained there during the whole of the passage, under my eye the whole time—nobody had an opportunity of interfering with them—there were ninety-five passengers—keys to open the chest were in the captain's charge—the chests were opened at Boulogne—I did not see the wooden boxes with the bullion as was supposed, in them, taken out, but I saw the larger box dragged away from the iron safe—it was in very bad condition—the side was bulged out, so that I could get my finger in—I only saw the large one.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What was the name of the captain? A. Captain Paul—I do not know Agar by sight—I have not seen him—the captain never lost the key of one of those chests, to my knowledge.
JACQUES THORON . (through an interpreter). I am employed in the Customs at Boulogne. I was present at the arrival of the Lord Warden, on 16th May, 1855, between 12 and 1 o'clock, and went on board—I saw the cash box opened, and I took out the small box—there was only one that I took out—I only arrived in time to take one out—I saw two on the cart, and took one myself—they were taken from the boat to the Douane, by persons employed by the Customs—the same parties that took the others took mine
along with them—a plank was laid down from the quay to the deck of the vessel, up which the luggage was taken—in unloading one of the boxes, I noticed that it was open the width of my fingers, and I remarked, when I removed it, that there was a bag moving about in it—it was black and white, speckled, just the same as these produced—I stopped there till Mr. Major arrived—I gave the box two knocks with ray heel, to close it—it was placed in the Custom House, in the same place where they deposit all the luggage coming from the boat, which has to be examined—on entering, the scales are to the left, and the other boxes were placed two or three feet from that place—the boxes continued in that state till Mr. Major came—I was there, and saw them all the time until his arrival.
COURT. Q. Who opened the iron safe? A. I did not see—I know Mr. Barnard perfectly well, and I believe it was one of his men who opened it.
JAMES HAMEL MAJOR . I am agent at Boulogne to the Society of the Messageries Generates. The South Eastern Company have an agent at Boulogne, Mr. Barnard—it is usual for the way bill to be produced to the broker for general merchandise, but I receive the way bill of the bullion from Mr. Chapman, and Mr. Barnard receives one from the company in duplicate—I remember the bullion chests arriving on 16th May, and their being taken to the Custom House—they were not opened there; bullion paying the highest duty it is not necessary, and it was late in the day—they were weighed at the Custom House in my presence—one box, marked P. D. 184, weighed, in French measurement, 54 kilogrammes 500 grammes—they weighed together 190 kilogrammes—the third box being so small was put on the others, and it produced then 198 kilogrammes, being 8 kilogrammes more—after they had been weighed, the large box being in bad condition, I had it nailed by the labouring men attached to the Custom House, and had it put on a truck, and had the small box put into a safe place in the truck, and the second one outside with other bales and packages, and dragged to my office—I happened to see them all the way, but I do not generally do so—when they got to my office they were unloaded, and remained there till they were sent to the rail under the charge of our guard—they were weighed separately at my office—the box P. D., 184, weighed 54 kilogrammes 500 grammes; the other, 136 kilogrammes 500 grammes, and the small box of Spiel man's, 7 kilogrammes 100 grammes; the total was 198 kilogrammes and 100 grammes—I had no idea of anything then—I afterwards received the weights taken at the London bridge terminus—I have reduced the English measures to French—the English weight of the box P. D., in London, has been sent to me as 1 cwt. 2 qrs. 16 lbs., which I calculate and represent in French measure as 70 kilogrammes 725 grammes; that is, 71 all but one quarter—in the French weight it is 16 kilometres, and a trifling fraction; less in London than in France—I have not calculated what the English weight of 16 kilogrammes 620 grammes is, but 1 cwt. is 70 kilogrammes; there are 2 lbs. avoirdupois to a kilogramme—I was informed also of the weight in London of the other two boxes, and found that the weight of them in France was something more—I went with the boxes to my office, and joined them as they were going into my yard, and went in with them immediately, as I was busy—they remained in my office under my eye all the time—the two large boxes were before me and the small one behind me, and about half past 6 o'clock or a quarter to 7, they were put on the same truck, and taken down to the railway—I did not see them down there, but I have people who generally go with them—I saw them on the truck—I saw the one marked
P. D., 184, afterwards at Paris, open, on 18th May—the others had been delivered and opened by the consignee—it had not been opened when I saw it on 18th May; it was in the same condition as when I saw it at Boulogne—I saw it opened—I was present when it was weighed—I insisted on its being weighed before me—the box and contents were weighed together, and weighed 54 kilogrammes 700 or 800 grammes and a fraction; it was a few grammes more than my weight, but substantially the same weight as mine, or little above it, but not anything of importance—the deficiency was not greater, but our scales in the office were used—it was all put in together with the lid and all, and then, of course, it was weighed to a very great nicety, and produced nearly 200 grammes more—when the box was opened, it was completely full of bags of this description, containing lead—one bag in the middle had been cut through with a knife; the box being apparently too full for the lid to lie down, and the shot had spread, and was mixed with the bags—there were two sizes of shot, the bag that was cut was the same size, I believe, but the Commissary of police found two sues.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you see the box opened? A. Yes; in fact I was called up for that purpose, but only the box, "P. D."—there was nothing in it but bags of shot, and a few wood shavings—I did not afterwards see either of the other boxes after they were opened, I returned to Boulogne—I did not see two sizes of shot, I think in the bag that was cut they were the same size—I did not afterwards see any leaves of a French pamphlet, although I heard that there was a pamphlet in one of the boxes—I saw a piece of sacking found at the messagerie—I have not brought it with me, as it was not the same at all, it was cotton stuff; it was blue, but the blue was much darker, it was chequered like this—I knew that I was coming to be examined in respect to this matter, but I never thought to bring it; it is at my house; the Commissary of police took part of it, and I took part—my attention was called to it at Boulogne—it was not found at my house, but at the house of one of my porters, by one of the Commissary's men, and brought to the chief Commissary, who was at my office at the time—I did not see the leaves of a pamphlet, I only heard it mentioned, the Commissary of police told me; I do not think he is here—I saw one quality of shot, it was in bags, which were put under seal by the Commissary—I saw the shot which was spread about in the box—my attention was not drawn to the fact of its being half English and half French manufacture; I tried it and found that it was English shot, it is much softer, you can tell by biting it—I never heard that it was half English and half French—I tried it to know whether it was English or French, not whether it was half English and half French—I am of opinion that what I tried was English—it is all here, it was put under seal by the police at Paris.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Do you find in this bag two sizes? A. I do not think there are (looking at it), there is only one size in this bag—the other (a parcel in brown paper), contains shot of different sizes, small and large; it has lost it's brightness, but it is English shot—it was the Commissary of Police, at Boulogne; the police of Paris called upon the police of Boulogne to assist them—I did not compare the two bags, but I am certain they are not the same—I had an opportunity of judging whether there was any similarity between the piece of check produced at Boulogne and the bags, and it was completely different; it was a darker blue, quite a different dye.
between the South Eastern Railway station and the town. In May, 1854, two persons lodged at our apartments, they were taken in the name of Adams—I have seen Adams since at the Mansion House, he then went by the name of Agar—I have not seen the other person who took lodgings with him; he was of rather a dark complexion, dark whiskers, and rather brown dark hair; the further one of the three prisoners is him—Pierce remained a week, and Agar a week after Pierce left—while there they went out walking chiefly, not at any particular time, but after breakfast—they were walking almost all day, except in and out, and they came in to dinner—after Pierce went, Agar went out as before—Pierce stated that business called him away to London, and he could not stay any longer in Folkestone—he did not tell me that he was going, Adams told me; Adams was head and chief—I did not know that Pierce was going, more than a day before he went.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When was that? A. On 9th May, 1854—I have got my book, which I can show you—I speak particularly to Pierce—I am quite certain of him—I described him with dark whiskers and dark brown hair—there was nothing particular going on at Folkestone then, that I know of—they went in and out like other lodgers at the sea side—we generally find lodgers go out after breakfast for the sea air—I do not remember that there was any embarkation of troops from Folkestone—I did not see Pierce again to recognise him till to-day—I have never recognised him before to-day—I was examined at the Mansion House, but I did not see Pierce—Adams was brought in for me to recognise, but not a word was said about Pierce—I do not know that I have mentioned his name in the witnesses' room to-day—I have not been asked anything about him—I did not look about enough to see him at the Mansion House—I never looked round, only to recognise Adams—I spoke of another man, but I was not asked to pick him out.
THOMAS LEDGER . I am Custom House agent at the Harbour station at Folkestone. On 28th Oct., 1854, I was married, and went away from my duties for a short time, from Saturday, 7th, till I think the following Wednesday or Thursday—I was absent on 30th Oct.—I do not know Agar by that name—I have seen a man go through the Court that I have seen at Folke-stone—I do not know his name—I saw him, previous to my marriage, at the Rose Inn, kept by Medhurst—I saw him there twice—I do not think that house is frequented by the servants of the company—I only know one who frequents it besides me, that is Mr. Chapman—I have seen the man sitting there, but not conversing with anybody—I do not recollect that I have spoken to him—there is a billiard room there and a smoking room—I recollect once Agar was introduced by the landlord when I and a clerk in the Provincial Bank were in there to supper, before my marriage—the landlord brought him in, and in consequence of what the landlord said, he came and had supper with us—after my return from my wedding trip, I saw Agar again—I now distinctly recollect seeing him on the harbour, he spoke to me, and told me that during my absence he had forwarded a valuable parcel to my address—I do not think that was many days after I returned—he did not invite me to go anywhere at that time, but I must have seen him afterwards, because he asked me if I would go to the Pavilion and take wine with him, which I declined—a person there named Conden, made a communication to me in consequence of my being with Agar—my office is close upon the harbour on the pier—I had a key of the bullion chest—I cannot say for certain the exact place where I kept it, but it must have been either in
the bullion room, or in my pocket, or in a desk which I had behind me—there is no drawer to my desk, or under it, or near it, nor in anybody else's desk, in which tickets are kept—a person named Sharland had an office quite separate from mine—when a boat arrives from Boulogne, it is my duty to attend to the landing of the passengers and render them any assistance they may require in passing their baggage, and Chapman's duty is partly the same, he sits by my side—on the arrival of a boat, I should go out to the landing of the passengers and Chapman sometimes goes—either the superintendent's clerk or Mr. Chapman's assistant would remain in the office—I have known the office to be left when a boat arrives—there are two locks on the bullion chest, but I believe only one was in use at the time of the robbery—I was on duty on the night of the robbery—I do not think I saw the bullion chests removed that night—I do not recollect it, but I saw them next morning, and saw them put on board the steam boat in the charge of McNie.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you generally keep the key either in your desk or in your pocket? A. I did then; I have kept it in the bullion room, which is in my office—Sharman is not in my office; Chapman is, and also Mr. Jones, Mr. Wellan, Mr. Lisle, and a youth that he had as an assistant, and the superintendent; it is, in fact, the steam packet office—the superintendent has a private office to himself, an inner office, I mean the captain of the harbour—when I went out I should not look round to see whether the superintendent or some of the clerks, are there, if the boat is coming in—we never all go down to meet the boat—they should go on with their duties while I go on with mine—Chapman did not always go down with me; I have a recollection of his doing so at times—I was not examined before the Magistrate; I did not get my letter soon enough, or I should have been there at 10 o'clock in the morning, but I did not get my letter till that time—that was the last examination but one, and I was not summoned on the last—I should think it must have been in the spring of 1844 that I first saw Agar—I was married in Oct., 1854, and saw him again after that.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Do you recollect the circumstance of one of the keys of the bullion chest being lost by one of the captains of the boats? A. I do, by Captain Mold—I believe it was through that that he left the service of the company; he left shortly afterwards—I cannot speak to the time, but it was certainly before I was married, some time before; I should not like to fix upon the date.
MR. BODKIN. Q. How many times have you ever known the office to be left without anybody in it, when a boat arrived? A. I cannot say for a certainty, but I have known it; I have gone and found it empty, and I should think if I said a dozen times I should not be under the mark—what we generally call the bullion room is a sort of closet in the office—I should think it is twelve feet high by about ten feet wide—it is a small room; the door of it is about four or five yards from the outer door of the office—the office is railed off, and you pass through a swing door, and then through another; you then come to Mr. Jones's desk, and directly at his back is the bullion room—there are places there where keys can be hung up; there is no light, only from the door—the key of the bullion chest has been hung up in that closet, and it would be only three or four feet from the person who opened the door, as it hung on the wall.
saw him at Folkestone in the spring of 1854—I was at that time export agent to the company and my office was on the quay—when I first saw him he was alone—when I first saw him he was in the coffee room of the Rose, Mr. Medhurst's—I remember his coming down to Folkestone in the autumn—he came to my office to inquire for a valuable parcel on Saturday, 28th Oct., which he said he expected—I told him that it had not arrived; he called on the Monday, it had then arrived and I gave it to him—I took it from the iron safe, which I unlocked before him, and he might have seen where I took the key from—I cannot say whether I replaced the key in his presence after I had taken the box out—I produced the bullion way bill to him, and asked him to sign a receipt on it—he requested me to draw it out, in consequence of having wounded two of his fingers—I saw that two of his fingers were In a black silk bag—I wrote the body of the receipt and he signed it in the name of Archer (he had inquired for a parcel in the name of Archer)—this "C. R. Archer," on this way bill (produced) is his writing.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. You kept the key of the bullion room? A. I did; I had it on my person for one week; that was in Mr. Ledger's absence—that is the only time that I have kept it—when the key was wanted it was taken away, I mean the key of the bullion room—the key of the bullion safe was never put in the bullion room—it was my custom, when I went out, to lock the bullion room door and take the key with me—Mr. Ledger will tell you whether it was his custom—I always did so to the best of my knowledge, I considered it my duty.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Were the two keys of the iron safe never put in the bullion room? A. I cannot say.
CHARLEMAGNE EVERARD . (through an interpreter). I am an assistant to the firm of Packham Neuffer and Co., of Paris. On 17th May, I received from Abel and Co., of London, a box—this is the box, I was present when it was opened; it did not contain gold, it contained shot; it was in such bags as these.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you see the whole of the box turned out? A. Yes; there was nothing in it but shot and shavings.
THOMAS SHARMAN . I keep the Torrington Arms at Merreweather, in Kent In Oct. and Nov., 1854, I was station clerk at Folkestone—I have seen the witness Agar—I recollect seeing him about that time in Folkestone—I saw him on the pier in Oct. and Nov.—I know Ledger, I remember, about the time of his being married—the last time that I saw Agar at Folke-stone was about the time that Ledger was married—I saw Tester with him on the pier—I went with them to the Pavilion Hotel—Tester, I believe, invited me to go; I had known Tester before, not intimately, but by seeing him several times—I was on speaking terms with him—I had a friend named Greenstead with me, he went with me—when I left, I left Tester and Agar together—I heard one of them, Tester, I believe, order dinner at the Pavilion, for two persons—I know Hazel—he had previously said something to me about Agar.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. When you saw Agar and Tester together, were they walking arm in arm? A. The were walking together, I cannot say whether they were arm in arm—I merely knew Tester as one of the officers of the company—the officers got passes on the line at that time, I did so, if I wanted one—I recollect Tester being married, I do not know the date, I do not think it was before the robbery, I do not recollect the time—I had seen Agar at Folkestone before—Tester
did not introduce me to him that I recollect—I was not cautioned against associating with Agar—I was not told that I had better have nothing to do with him—Hazel drew my attention to him as a suspicious character—I went, after that, and had wine and biscuits with him, through Tester inviting me—I did not tell Tester what I had heard about Agar.
MR. MONK. Q. Did you say anything to Hazel in consequence of Tester's having brought you in company with Agar. A. Yes, the next day I told him I thought our suspicions were not correct.
COURT. Q. In what office did you get your passes. A. The Superintendent's office, London-bridge.
MR. MONKS. Q. Was that an office in which Tester was employed? A. I believe so.
GEORGE DOUGLAS HAZEL . I am inspector of police to the South Eastern Railway Company, at Redhill; in 1854 I held the same appointment at Folkestone harbour—I know the three prisoners—In 1854 I saw Fierce at Folkestone harbour in company with the witness Agar; I believe it was in May, 1854, they were on the pier, standing near to where the passengers were going on board the steam-boat which was in connection with the tidal train—the tidal train had just come in—I should think they were there on that occasion about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour; I cannot say the exact time—I believe they remained there until the boat had sailed—I then saw them leave the pier and go in the direction of the town—I had some reason for noticing Pierce more than an ordinary person—I did not see what part of the town they went to after they had passed the pier—I did not follow them into the town—I cannot recollect whether any bullion was shipped on that day; it was frequently shipped about that time—I saw them together about ten or a dozen tames after that, usually on the pier at the time of the departure of the boat for Boulogne, and the arrival of the boat from Boulogne—I made a communication upon this to Mr. Steer, the superintendent of the Folkestone police—I pointed them out to Mr. Steer, and also to a man that he sent to me—I saw Agar at Folkestone in Oct. 1854—I saw him go into the booking office of the station at Folkestone harbour—he was there aboutten minutes or a quarter of an hour—he brought nothing out—I went in while he was there, and saw him looking round at Mr. Sharman, the booking clerk, whilst he was making up his money in the inner office, adjoining the booking office—Agar was in the outer office—he could see Sharman, by going to the doorway; he could look round the corner at him; he did so—I saw him again on the following day, on the pier, I think between 11 and 12 o'clock—he was with Tester—the boat was then getting ready to start for Boulogne—nobody was with him when I first saw him, but a very short time afterwards I saw him with Tester—I knew Tester perfectly well—I saw them go from the pier in the direction of the Pavilion Hotel—I did not watch them much beyond the station—the Pavilion Hotel is close to the station—I should think they must have been in my sight altogether for twenty minutes on that occasion—I believe Mr. Ledger was away at that time; his marriage was about that time—I saw Tester again that day at the harbour station—he came and went up by the train which left Folkestone harbour at half past 7 o'clock in the evening.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Had you known Agar at all? A. Not before that—everybody goes to see the steamer come in, there is very little else to see there—I cannot tell you when Tester was married, whether it was before or after the robbery—he remained in the Company's service some considerable time after the robbery—I believe he
then got another employment of a better kind—I cannot say whether he was highly recommended by the Company when he left—he went away with the reputation of a very good character, as far as I know—at the time this inquiry commenced, he was abroad, he came over and surrendered—I am the person who cautioned Sharman about Agar—I only knew Agar by seeing him about the pier, I did not like the look of him at all; he carried it in his face—I did not give Tester any hint, Tester seemed to know him so well—Tester was in the employment of the Company, and a comparatively young man.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Pierce was in the service of the Company at one time, was he not? A. Yes; as a ticket-printer—I do not know exactly when he left; I should think it was about 1852—I am not aware that his business as ticket-printer took him constantly to almost every station on the line—I should say it was not his duty to visit a station when anything was the matter with the tickets there; he was merely the printer of the tickets—all he had to do, so far as I know, was in printing the tickets—I am not aware that he ever went to put the tubes or papers to rights—I do not know how long he was in the service of the Company—I believe he was generally known over the line.
Cross-examined by Mr. GIFFARD. Q. How long had Burgess been in the employment of the Company) A. I think ten or twelve years; he was so up to the time of being taken on this charge—as soon as I officially knew of the robbery, I communicated to the railway authorities what I had seen—that was long before the Company were resisting Mr. Abel's claim; about a week or a fortnight after the robbery—I was directed by the police officers not to mention what I knew, for fear it should frustrate the ends of justice, and by their wish I kept silent; and by the wish of the railway authorities—I was directed to do so, and I did so—Captain Barlow was managing at that time for the Company—I spoke to him on the subject, and he also directed me to keep quiet—I cannot tell you the date of that; it was some short time after I had seen the detective; I should think within a month or so of the robbery.
Mr. BODKIN. Q. You had seen the detective before you saw Captain Barlow? A. Yes; the detective showed me an authority from the Company for making the inquiries he was making—I received directions from him to keep quiet what I knew; I told that to Captain Barlow, and he also told me to keep quiet.
JAMES STEER . I am superintendent of the police at Folkestone—I was at Folkestone in May, 1854—I remember seeing Pierce there about the end of May—I was in a fly, and saw him pass with Agar, whom I knew as Adams—in consequence of what had been said to me I noticed them particularly—they were on the way between Hythe and Folkestone—the first time I saw them they were in company together on Folkestone harbour between 10 and 11 o'clock in the day—I do not recollect whether it was about the time the tidal train arrived—they observed me, and generally walked away in different directions, particularly Agar—I should think Agar was there a fortnight on that occasion, and Pierce eight or ten days to the best of my recollection—I saw Agar again at the end of Aug. or the early part of Nov., opposite the Pavilion Hotel, on Folkestone harbour—he was then with a tall gentleman; they were both standing under one umbrella; it was a rainy day—when I came near to them I observed that they saw me; the tall man walked away into the Pavilion, an Agar walked away in the direction of the town—I do not know who the tall man was—I
knew Burgees at that time—I saw him in. company with Agar on one occasion on Folkestone harbour, nearly in the same place where I saw Agar in company with the tall man—I never saw Agar in Folkestone after that—I made a memorandum of this in May.
Cross-examined by Mr. GIFFARD. Q. You knew Agar at the time you saw him with Burgess? A. I did; I am quite certain of that; I believe it was in Oct. or Nov., I could not swear which; it was on the same occasion upon which I saw him with the tall gentleman—I have no doubt about it at all.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PABBT. Q. You say you saw Pierce there, was that at the time the troops were departing for the Crimea? A. No; there were no troops departing from there on that occasion—I do not recollect Lord Cardigan's departure—he might have departed by the boat, I cannot say about that.
HENRY WILLIAMS . I am a booking clerk to the South Eastern Railway Company—I was formerly a porter or night watchman at the Dover terminus. I remember this robbery—I was on duty on the night of 15th May, 1855, when the half-past 8 o'clock mail train from London arrived at Dover—it came in about 11 o'clock—Burgess and Kennedy were the guards that came with that train—I took no particular notice of anybody that came by that train—I remained in the booking office until the up train left Dover at 2 o'clock—it was an express train, with only first class carriages—I issued tickets to only two passengers by that train—besides the two persons who took those tickets, I noticed two men going through the office to go up by that train—I did not notice them enough to speak to their persons—each of them had a bag in his hand—Burgess and Kennedy were in the office at the time they went through; we were all three standing together—they might have seen the two persona going through—I recollect that one of the men was of a light complexion and one dark, but no further than that—I was about to speak to them when I saw that they did not take tickets, but Witherden, the porter, met them at the door, and asked them if they would allow him to put their bags into the carriage—I could not hear the reply they made him—he did not take their bags—I did not see those persons get into the carriage—they west on to the platform—I issued the tickets to the two passengers who went up by tickets—one was an elderly gentleman; he paid for the two tickets, to the best of my recollection; the other was much younger, perhaps twelve years, or from that to twenty—I should have taken them to be father and son.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do not you think they might have been uncle and nephew? A. Probably they might; there were very few persons in the office when they passed through—it is a train that in general takes up very few passengers—there were no porters there besides myself—Burgess, Kennedy, and I were all three talking together—as the persons passed through, two of us turned round to look at them, Kennedy was sitting facing them—there were several gas lights in the office and along the platform—they were on the platform I should think about twenty minutes before the train started—I was seven or eight yards from them as they passed through.
Cross-examined by MR. LEWIS. Q. You say Burgess and Kennedy came into the office. A. Yes; I cannot say whether they came in together.
Eastern Railway Company—I was on duty on the night of 15th May, 1855—I remember the mail train coming in—Burgess and Kennedy were the guards—I remained on duty till about 6 o'clock in the morning—I was on duty when the 2 o'clock train went—I remember seeing two men going by that train—I saw them arrive at the station—I do not know them—one was taller than the other, and they had kind of cloaks on, and slouched hats—I cannot remember exactly whether they were long or short cloaks—they came straight through the booking office—I asked them to allow me to take their bags—they did not do so—there was another porter on duty—I supposed their bags to be heavy by the way in which they carried them—I spoke to them about their tickets, and they showed me two first class tickets by way of Ostend—they were blue tickets—one of them gave me some money; I cannot say which it was; it was the one that sat nearest the door—I asked them if their bags had passed through the customs—they said, "No, we came over last evening"—I could not swear it, but to the best of my belief, the Ostend boat was not soon enough on that night for the 2 o'clock train.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. I believe the train was about twenty minutes in starting after their arrival, is that so? A. Something between twenty minutes and a quarter of an hour—I opened the carriage door for them—I did not talk to them at all, only about getting the bags passed through the customs—there was plenty of light in the office on that morning.
MR. MONKS. Q. At what particular time was it that the man near the door gave you the money. A. I was not above two or three minutes with them altogether—it was after the conversation about the Ostend tickets.
WERTER CLARK . I keep the Rose Inn at Dover, near St. Mary's church, in the upper part of the town—I recollect two men coming to my house in the early part of 1855—I could not swear positively to either of the men, but I remember one was a short man and the other rather taller—the taller man had dark hair and whiskers, and the short man had light curly hair—that I can remember, but I cannot distinguish the men after that long time—to the best of my recollection the men I speak of slept at my house, and went away in the morning—they said they were going to Folkestone—the short man asked me the way by the cliff side—I directed them, and they left—the latter man seemed to limp a little when they started, but not particularly so—I noticed it.
ROBERT CLARK . I am waiter at the Dover Castle Hotel, at Dover—I went to that situation in April 1855, on the day that the Emperor of the French landed on his visit to this country—I remember two men coming there one night after I had been there a short time—I do not know them; one was rather shorter than the other—as far as I recollect they had two bags with them—I do not recollect what sort of covering they had on—they went away by the 2 o'clock train—before they left, they told me to put some brandy in a soda water bottle—I did so—I had to leave the room in order to do that—they left about half past 1 o'clock I should think, about half an hour after I had fetched the brandy—I did not see which way they went—they took their bags with them.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Did they sup? A. No, not that I know of—they came about 11 o'clock, and left about half past 1 o'clock—there were gas lights in the room where they were sitting, there were no other persons there.
MATTHEW DICKENSON . I am a policeman in the employment of the South Eastern Railway Company, stationed at the London-bridge terminus—I remember the gold robbery—I was on duty on the morning of 16th May, as porter at the London terminus, when the train arrived which left Dover at 2 o'clock; it was due at half past 4 o'clock—I believe there were not more than four passengers came up by it—I opened the doors to let the passengers out—I let out two passengers only from the compartment that I opened, one man was a little taller than the other, and one was darker complexioned than the other—the one that stepped out of the carriage first on to the platform had a bag in his hand—I did not notice the other so much—they had no luggage but what was with them in the carriage, I believe there was not any luggage that morning in the luggage van, but Woodhouse had the collection of that, not me—the man that I let out and spoke to, had a large cape on, and he had dark hair and dark whiskers—I asked him if he wished for a cab and he declined it—he and the other man that got out with him went down the platform together—what became of them then I did not observe.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Were there any other porters on duty? A. Yes, there was one porter on duty besides me—he might open some of the carriages; four passengers is not an unusually small number for that train—I saw the four, and very probably the other porter might—they had perhaps seventy or eighty yards to walk to get out of the station; I did not speak to both of the men, only to the first, he answered me, he declined having a cab—I did not go along with him after that till we left the station—one stepped out of the carriage immediately after the other—they walked away together—there was a policeman' on duty outside, at the door through which they would have to pass, his name is Perry; there would be two policemen at the door—I will not Bay that they must have seen the men, they might have been otherwise engaged at the time; it was their duty to be at the door—I have been in the company's service two years last April.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you communicate to the railway authorities what you had seen at the time? A. I did, a few days afterwards, to Mr. Weatherhead.
MR. BODKIN. Q. As soon as you heard of the robbery, I suppose? A. Yes; the duty of one of the policemen at the door would be to book the cabs, if any went out, and the other would call out the address and destination to which the cabs were going.
WILLIAM WOODHOUSE . I am at present a guard on the South Eastern railway. In May, 1855, I was a porter at the London terminus—I was on duty there when the 2 o'clock train from Dover arrived in London on 16th May, 1855—it was my duty to unload the milk cans from the luggage van—to my recollection, none of the passengers had luggage in the luggage van that morning—I noticed three of the passengers, two walked up the platform together, and the other followed a minute or two after—I am not able to recognise the two that walked together—I noticed that one was rather taller than the other; very trifling—I cannot say what sort of covering they had on.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Did you see them come out of the carriages? A. I did not—I was about twelve or fourteen yards from them when I observed them—Dickenson was attending to the carriages—I did
not see him let two men out of the carriage—I was engaged at the luggage van at the time.
STEPHEN JONES . I am a guard in the service of the South Eastern Railway Company. In April, 1855, I was guard of the 7.30 evening train from Dover—I continued on that for the succeeding month of May—it is unusual to continue longer than one month—that train is due at Redhill at 9.25—the 8.30 train from London is due at Redhill, at 9.4—I remember, on one occasion when I reached Redhill, seeing Tester there; that was in May; it was before I heard of the gold robbery—he was just coming out of the refreshment room door, on the up side—I knew him very well as a person in the employment of the company—he had a black leather bag with him—to the best of my recollection it was about twelve or fifteen inches long—I saw him afterwards in a first class carriage—that train did not stop between Redhill and London—I did not see anything more of him that night—I know Pierce and Burgess; Burgess I knew as a guard—Pierce I have seen at Folkestone in 1854—he was there in company with some one—I do not know the man—I have not seen him since, that I know of—I have seen Agar, but I do not recollect him—J saw Pierce and the other man on the pier at Folkestone, about four or five times—I have also seen Pierce in London; I have seen him at the Green Man, in Tooley-street; and Burgess was there at the time—that was in 1853—J have not seen him there since that.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. What time was it that you saw Tester coming out of the refreshment room? A. About 9.25—the train had just arrived there from Dover—I then saw him in a first class carriage in that train—it is usual for the guards only to be one month on a train—it sometimes happens they are more—it has happened about three times to my knowledge, where the same guard has continued more than one month—I have been on one train for many months, but that is a special service by itself, and the guard is never reckoned with the other guards—Burgess was on the tidal train when it came to his turn—I have seen Tester before at Redhill—I cannot say how many times, at different times—I cannot say whether he was a friend of the station master there or not—Mr. Ness is the station master there; I do not know whether he is here—I first mentioned about this black bag, about a month or five weeks ago—I heard of the robbery five or six days after it was committed—I do not recollect mentioning about the black bag until after I had read Agar's evidence—I read a portion of Agar's evidence—I read that portion in which he charged Tester with being an accomplice of his—I never, to my knowledge, mentioned a word about the black bag until then; I do not recollect doing so; I could not swear whether I did or not—I did not know Agar—I do not know that I had ever seen him.
Q. What makes you say that you are certain this occurred before you heard of the robbery? A. Because it was not so very long before I left that train altogether—J remember it perfectly well—I was only continued on that train during April and May; and I should not have been there at any other time—I never recollect being on for two months at any other period before that—I had only been on one month—I would not swear I had not been two, because I am not positive—I can pledge my oath that it was during that two months that I saw the black bag—I will swear that I saw Tester there in May with a bag—I say it was in May, because it was the last month I worked that train—I did not mention it to anybody—I did not take particular notice of Mr. Tester—I was asked a few questions about the robbery in June—I did not then mention about seeing Tester with the
black bag in May, because I was not asked the question—I mentioned it now because I was asked—I was never asked about it before—what I was asked about in June was, if I had seen Pierce at Folkestone—I do not remember that I was asked anything else at that time—I cannot say whether when I was examined in June, I knew the night on which the robbery had been committed—I believe Tester was occasionally a relieving station master—that is a person who takes the place of the station masters when they get a holiday, or anything of that kind—I cannot say that I have seen Tester with bags of that kind often—I have seen relieving station masters with them, and other luggage as well—I cannot say what sort of bags they carried, or what sort Mr. Tester carried previous to that—I know he carried a black bag that night—I do not recollect seeing a relieving station master with a black bag—there are a great number in use—I did not see anything unusual in the bag.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You say you saw Pierce at the Green Man, in Tooley-street? A. Yes; that was not while he was in the company's service—I never knew him in the company's service—the Green Man is a house that is very much frequented by persons in the company's service.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Can you tell me whether the rotation of the under guards is the same as that of the guards? A. Not always; there is a little difference; the under guard does not usually go with the head guard on to the tidal train—with that exception, he generally takes the same rotation as the other guard, he generally gets changed every month.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you ever, to your recollection, see Tester at Redhill, with a black bag, except that night? A. No; when I was examined on this subject in June I was not questioned at all about Tester—I was asked about Pierce—the inquiry was about him.
FREDERICK RUSSELL . I am booking clerk at the London and Brighton terminus of the Greenwich Rail way. I was there in May, 1855—I know Tester and knew him at that time—I. recollect hearing of the robbery of the bullion box—I remember Tester coming to the office one night about 10 minutes after 10 o'clock—the half past 7 o'clock Dover train generally gets in at 5 minutes past 10 o'clock—I cannot say whether the half past 7 o'clock down train had arrived when I saw Tester—he lived at Lewisham at that time—a person could go to Greenwich only by that line, not to Lewisham—he came to the window and asked me if I was going home by that train, that was the last train, the 20 minutes past 10 o'clock to Greenwich—he said that he had been to Red-hill and back since his office hours—he brought nothing into the office at that time—Perry, the night watchman, was in the office at the time—Tester seemed rather excited—he came in as soon as Perry went out—there was then nobody in the office but me—he put a black bag behind me, in a recess against the fire place, and said that he would be back in a few minutes—he went away, and after he was gone Perry returned and asked me whose bag that was—I said that it was Tester's—to my best recollection it was fifteen or eighteen inches long, and nearly new—I had never seen him with it before to my knowledge—he was not in the habit of going down by that late train—he may have, but I cannot recollect it—this was some time in May, to my best belief—it was before I heard of the robbery—he returned and took the bag, and told me that he would rejoin me at the carriage—I cannot recollect seeing anything more of the bag after that; he joined me at the carriage and went with me to Greenwich, and from there to Lewisham—I did not see Perry touch the bag—I was busy booting passengers.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You say that you had not known of his going down to Red-hill before, you would not have known at that time if he had not told you? A. No, I should not be in the way of seeing—he lived about half a mile from me at that time—I do not know his family—I believe he was married at that time, and had been so about two months previously—there was a fire place in the room, and I was sitting opposite it; it was directly behind me—if this desk was the fire place, here was my booking window—he brought the bag in, and put it down directly behind me on the floor; I should say four yards from me—I should not almost kick against it, moving towards the fire place; it would be out of my way; it stood close against the boards of the wall—I cannot tell whether it was fastened, or how it fastened—he was away seven or eight minutes—I did not feel it—it was made of black shiny leather—it was the same as you might see, a common carpet bag; this sort of bag (a black leather one)—I have seen a good many thousand railway travellers without these bags—I went down with him that night, but did not notice whether he had the bag with him—whether it was before or after the robbery I do not know, but I think it was before, because when we went home, when we heard of the robbery, it was our general discourse—I afterwards knew the day on which it was committed—I was not examined about it by the authorities of the railway—I mentioned about it about three weeks before the surrender of Tester, but after the examination of Agar—we did not very often go down together at night; we might—it was not usual for him to call at my window—I should not have thought it remarkable if he had gone down without me—there was not the least cause for his putting the bag into my office.
MR. BODKIN. Q. There is a line of rail which goes to Lewisham direct? A. Yes, the North Kent line, but that train had gone—I cannot recollect ever having gone down with him before to Greenwich; I might have.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Were you, Tester, and a person named Dunnell, in the habit of very often going down by the Lewisham train? A. No; I do not know whether Tester went with me, I made no observation about it.
COURT. Q. Do you book for the Lewisham train? A. No.
JOHN PERRY . I am night watchman at the London and Greenwich terminus—I know Tester—I remember seeing him at the Greenwich booking office one night in May, 1855—it was before I heard of the gold robbery—I first saw him that night entering the Greenwich booking office; it was about ten minutes past 10 o'clock—the last train went at twenty minutes past 10 o'clock at that time—he went to Mr. Russell—there is an open window where the tickets are issued, and he spoke to him through the open window—I heard what he said; he said, "Good evening, Mr. Russell"—Mr. Russell returned the compliment, and he said that he had just come from Red-hill—Mr. Russell said that it was sharp work; because he said that he had been between office hours—I went away then, and came back about ten minutes afterwards, or not quite so much, and went into the office—Mr. Russell was then in the office; nobody else; Tester had left—Mr. Russell desired me to shift a box for him out of the way, and I saw this black bag then down against this box—I shifted the box on one side so that I could move the box, and said to Russell, "Whose bag is this? it feels very heavy and lumpy"—I took it up in my right hand, and put it on one side, and Mr. Russell said that it was Mr. Tester's—it felt heavy and lumpy, just as if a stone was in it—it was about a foot long or more—I did not remain till Tester came—I did not see him go in, neither did I see him
come out—it must have been three or four days after that that I heard of the robbery.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTTNE. Q. How did you lift the bag up? A. With my right hand—I put it on one side—I did not feel what was in it—it was about the size of the one that is here, or it might be a trifle larger—I read Agar's evidence—I never said anything about a black bag till I had read it; we had not the least thought of anything of the kind—when we read Agar's evidence it freshened our memories that it was somewhere about the time that the gold robberies took place.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Were you asked anything about the black bag until lately? A. No.
JOHN CHUBB . I am one of the firm of Chubb and Sons, lock makers, of St. Paul's Church-yard. We made the locks for the bullion chests for the South Eastern Railway—there were four bullion chests and two locks to each—there were five keys originally made to each set of locks—the left side locks on all the chests were the same and the right hand different—that is, there were two sets of locks on the four chests, and five keys to each lock—in 1854 we received these letters (produced)—I have no doubt of their being received about the time that they bear date.
WILLIAM HENRY WHITE . I am a clerk in the audit of the South Eastern Railway. I know Tester's writing—I believe these letters are in Tester's writing except the signatures. (The first letter was dated 21st July, 1854, to Messrs. Chubb, from G. W. Brown, Superintendent, South Eastern Railway, requesting to see Messrs. Chubb at the office, at their earliest convenience respecting these bullion chests. The second was dated 17th Aug., from the same to the same, giving an order to alter three of the keys, and to make one new one with all possible dispatch, with a postscript, "Let all these keys come to my office when altered, G. W. B" The third was 14th Aug., from the same to the same, requesting that the chests might be fetched the next day, that No. 1 keys might be altered.)
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Whose writing is this postscript? A. I believe it to be Tester's with the exception of the G. W. B.—I am sufficiently acquainted with it to say that the postscript is his.
JOHN CHUBB ., re-examined. I find that about 18tb Aug., the four keys were altered, and a new one was made—then on 21st and 22nd Sept., the No. 1 locks of two chests were altered, and on 21st Oct. No. 1 lock of the fourth chest was altered; that completed it—I have no doubt that the keys were from time to time sent to the superintendent's office, agreeably to the request in those letters—the first lock would necessarily be altered when the first box was done—when I heard of the robbery, I sent to the railway terminus, I did not go—the chests were all brought to me and I inspected them and the locks after the robbery—I found the whole of the No. 2 locks so corroded that the key would not act—they were all unlocked and opened, as if they had been some weeks, if not months, in that state—they were unused—that was two or three days after the robbery.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you mean the boxes which were supposed to have been opened with a false key? A. Yes, the whole of the four boxes which had been used for carrying the bullion—these letters are, the body in Tester's writing, and signed by the superintendent, purporting to be under his order.
JOHN PEAKS KNIGHT . I am out of door superintendent of the South Eastern Railway. In April, 1855, I was deputy to Mr. Brown, the superintendent of the line—Tester was one of his clerks, and ranked as third clerk in the office—there was an assistant named Finnegan, he was deputy—I
left the company in Sep. or Oct., 1855—in 1854 up to May, 1855, it was Mr. Finnigan's duty to regulate the attendance of the guards—this (produced) is the routine of the guards up to April, 1855—in April, Burgess and Kennedy were the guards of the 8.30 mail train and the second class return train from Dover—these words, "And May," are Tester's writing—that is what we call the mail train up and down—I remarked to Tester that it was irregular to continue the guards for two months together; he replied that it was of no consequence, that it had been done before, or something to that effect—I entered the service of the Company in Aug., 1854—before that I had nothing to do with transmitting bullion by railway—shortly after I came I heard a conversation between Mr. Brown and Tester respecting the keys of the bullion chest—to the best of my recollection, it was about a key being lost by one of the captains—Tester was sent to Folkestone about that—a few weeks after that, several keys were returned from Messrs. Chubb's, after the locks had been re-combined and altered, to the best of my recollection, Mr. Brown took charge of them, and put them in a drawer in his office—that is not the office in which Tester was employed—Tester's office was the outer one next to Mr. Brown's, and opened into it—Tester received instructions from Mr. Brown to dispose of the keys—I know no instances in which he has had occasion to visit Folkestone, or Dover, or Red Hill, on the Company's service, except with respect to these keys when they were lost.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you know of any occasion that he had to visit Folkestone? A. No, except in respect of the bullion keys—that was about Aug. or Sept., 1854—he was then sent there to make inquiries, to rectify the mistake—I believe I was present when the keys were returned from Chubb's—Mr. Brown took possession of them at once—I do not know whether he is here—I have not seen him—I believe I saw him put them into his own drawer; I cannot say now whether he did or not—I do not recollect consulting with him about the alteration of the time of the guards; I cannot recollect that I mentioned it to him—I will not swear I did not—I mentioned it to Tester—it was unusual for guards to remain longer than a month—it had been done before on two or three occasions, with an interval of twelve months between, perhaps—I do not think it was occasioned by some general alteration of the trains, I do not think there was one; I am only speaking from memory—I do not think there was any general alteration of the trains at that period—I do not recollect the words I used to Tester, but it was something about the irregularity of the affair—I do not recollect that Tester had mentioned to me before he entered those words that he intended to do so, or that I had consulted Mr. Brown on the subject—I do not recollect Tester mentioning it to me at all; I will not swear he did not—I never heard any conversation between Tester and Brown on the subject—I believe I saw Tester make the alteration, the entry—the whole of the guards would then, of course, continue—it did not apply to Burgess in particular, but to every guard on the line—it all went on in May as in April—I do not remember any trains being altered in the middle of the month—I do not recollect consulting Mr. Brown at all; he generally left such matters in my hands entirely.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Have you any other of these guards' duty sheets here? A. I believe there are several—Kennedy was for two months on the same train, it might possibly be three months—Mr. Finnegan is the person who up to May, 1855, is responsible for that, and was so at the very period you are inquiring about—I have not got the one
for March here—by looking at it I should be able to tell you that Burgess and Kennedy were on the 8.30 train in March—in March, April, and May Kennedy was on the same train.
MR. BODKIN. Q. He was the under guard, was he not? A. Yes—the adding the words "and May" was done at the end of April—Finnegan had not left the service of the Company then; he left about four or five months afterwards—he gave up that duty—he ceased to act in that department in April, and before this alteration was made by the addition of these words—I do not recollect that anything was said by Tester about a change in the trains when that conversation took place—the answer he gave me when I expostulated with him about it was that it was of no consequence—the effect was to continue Burgess as the head guard of the mail train for the month of May.
JOHN MATTHEWS . I manage the business of Messrs. Massey, goldsmiths and foreign money changers, of No. 116, Leadenhall-street, at the corner of St. Mary Axe—by my book I find that on the morning of 16th May, 1855, I bought 210 American eagles—the entry is in my own writing—I gave 210l. 13s. for them—it was from 9 o'clock to half past—I do not recollect the person; it was a man, and he was alone—I paid him in gold, by his desire; but, as I had not the money to pay him in the house, I sold them in the trade, got bank notes for them, and changed the notes at the Bank of England—that occupied about half an hour, and I found him remaining in the shop, and gave him the gold—I have a slight recollection of him; he was rather a tall man, and looked as if he had been travelling; he looked tired.
COURT. Q. Did you tell him the reason that you detained him? A. I told him that I should go and get the gold.
RUDOLPH PROMMELL . I am a money changer, at No. 37, Haymarket, the third house on the right hand side, near the top—I have got my book here (produced). On 16th May, 1855, in the morning, I bought 200 American eagles, for 203l. 6s. 8d.—I paid by this cheque (produced), on the Union bank, branch No. 4, Pall-mall East.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. How long did the transaction of the sale of this money take? A. Not more than ten minutes—I hardly remember anything of the transaction—I do not remember whether conversation took place about the sale—I recollect nothing but the sale.
MARY ANN PORTER . I am the wife of James Porter, of No. 13, Harleyford-road, Vauxhall—I saw a man at the Mansion-house, who went by the name of Agar—he took apartments of me in the name of Adams, in the beginning of Oct., two years ago, he had a female with him, who was called Mrs. Adams—I have frequently seen Pierce there as a visitor to Agar, in the name of Peckham—they remained there about seven weeks—Peckham came about twice the first week, and afterwards more frequently—he very frequently stopped half the day, but sometimes not so long—Agar brought the furniture, and, as far as I know, it was his—it was taken away in a van—Peckham went with them—I do not know where it was removed to, they did not tell me—they moved away the week before Christmas.
for him, it was nearly black—I did it and returned it to him—I remember his leaving the neighbourhood and going somewhere else—it was a month or five weeks before that, that I dressed the wig for him.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. When was it? A. At the latter end of 1854, it might be about Nov.—I have dressed very few wigs since that.
FANNY BOLAN KAY . Some years ago I was an assistant at the refreshment bar at the Tunbridge station, and while there was acquainted with Burgess, who introduced me to Agar, that was in 1853: some time after which I became intimately acquainted with Agar, and had a child by him—I lived with him at several places, and in Dec, 1854, went to live with him at Cambridge-villas, Shepherd's-bush—before that I had seen Pierce in Agar's company, in Harleyford-road, Vauxhall, and at Greenwich, where I lived, and at Tooley-street, at the Green Man public house, I think it was—I have seen them very often together, and taking meals and refreshments together—so far as I saw, they were well acquainted with each other—I did not see Burgess in Agar's company from the time he introduced me till we went to live at Shepherd's-bush—Pierce went by the name of Peckham—on 7th May, 1855, my child left me to be weaned; Charlotte Painter was then a servant of ours—one Sunday, a fortnight after that, I went to see the child—I remember Mrs. Bessel's death, our next door neighbour, she died on 18th May, 1855—it was after that that I went to see my child—on the Tuesday or Wednesday night before that, Agar was absent all night—he was away the week after, and a few days before—I saw him next day, in the afternoon part—I cannot say exactly the time—he came with Pierce, in a cart; they had two bags with them—I think it was two—they carried them into the washhouse—I did not see them opened—after their return Pierce was there generally every day—after 21st May, he and Agar were in the back room, first floor—I looked into that room once when they were there together, and saw that they had got the stove out and a very bright fire in the chimney—when I opened the door they both ran to it and shut it, but I do not think they said anything to me—before that they had been much in the washhouse, but I do not know what they had been doing, I never went in while they were there—sometimes they were there for the course of the morning, and I heard them hammering very often—they also brought into the house shooting bags, made of drab leather, and one black one—when I peeped into the room up stairs I heard a loud noise, a furnace, it was like the roaring of a large fire—I heard that going on for several days—I saw what appeared to me to be square pieces of stone brought down from that room by Pierce, one end was in a pail and the other he held with a duster—after I had heard that noise, they came down to their dinner and their meals, very hot and very dirty—I inquired what they were doing, and they said, "Leather apron weaving"—they gave no other answer but that—I have heard them speak of Burgess and of Tester—I have gone into the room after that noise has ceased; the stove has been replaced and blackened, and the floor burnt in a few places—about the time that my child was weaned, they wore the fashionable capes, shortish cloaks; Agar had his about two months before my child was weaned—I never saw Pierce looking otherwise in respect of the colour of his hair than he does now—I have seen him with more hair about his face, but his own hair I believe—some short time before Agar's arrest, he left me, and I remained at Cambridge Villas a short time—he went to Kilburn, but I did not at that time know that he was there—he came to see me before I heard
that he was arrested; the child was not with me at that time, he was at Rotherhithe, with a cousin of Agar's—after I had left Cambridge Villa, I saw Agar at St. George's-road, the day before his arrest; before that I had not seen him for a considerable time—after he went away I remained in lodgings in St. George's-road for some time, Pierce provided the money for that up to January—I cannot say how much he gave me, it was different sums; he was to have allowed me 1l. a week, but he did not do that—I went to live at his house in January, and remained till the latter part of April, the child was with me—I left on account of words with Pierce—while I was at his house there were two trunks of Agar's there, there were his clothes in them and a box of tools, I do not think there was anything else—I saw no money which I knew belonged to him—I saw his watch there, and a set of shirt studs, and a diamond ring, but no money or notes—I have seen Pierce with a great deal of gold before I went to live at his house; he had a little bag of sovereigns about this size—he once told me that he asked Agar to lend him a sovereign, and Agar would not; sometimes he said he could get money out of him and sometimes he could not—he has only once told me that he had asked Agar to lend him small sums of money, that was during the early part of the time that I was at Cambridge-villas—Pierce asked me to lend him a shilling when I was at Greenwich, in 1854—previous to the gold robbery, Agar used to sell his old clothes to Pierce; I suppose he sold them, I have seen Pierce take the old clothes away, and have heard them making a bargain for them—I have seen notes as well as gold in Pierces possession after the robbery, I cannot tell to what amount; I have seen a roll of notes in his hand—after I left his house in April, I had no means of support, and made application to Pierce for money, I got it, and I applied again and got it, I applied to him again and was refused—after that, I saw Mr. Weatherhead, the Governor of Newgate, and made a communication to him; I afterwards saw Mr. Rees, and made a communication to him.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Might I ask you without being impertinent how old you are, or believe yourself to be? A. 25—I left the Tunbridge station in 1852; I was dismissed—it was not for anything dishonest, I am quite sure of that—at that time I went to my mother's, to my home—I have not lived with other men besides Agar, I will swear that—I have known a person named Tress, I do not consider that my conduct has been improper with him at all—I know a person named Hart—I knew him perhaps six months after I left Tunbridge—I did not live with him, nor was I constantly in his company—he used to come up to town once a fortnight or three weeks—he did not stay with me—he used not to give me money—I will not swear that, but for no improper purpose—he has given me money, a sovereign or two sovereigns sometimes—he is no relation of mine—he is, perhaps, about thirty years of age—Mr. Tress has given me money; not in the same way—he gave me 5l. once—that was after I was dismissed—I do not know what they dismissed me for at Tunbridge—I do not know what complaint it was; I had done no harm—I wanted to go home, that was the commencement of it—I had a very comfortable situation there, 12l. a year and my board and lodging—I was not dismissed on account of improprieties with men; I have not said so before the Magistrates—I did not speak to Hart until I had left Tunbridge station—I know a gentleman named Bill Barber—he has not given me any money—he was under guard—I did not keep company with him—I do not know whether he is alive or dead, but I am quite sure he never gave me any money—Tress is not a relation
of mine—I cannot say how old he is, he is elderly—I stayed at my mother's until the Nov. following, I should think—I think I left Tunbridge in April—when I left my mother's I went to Johnson-street, Somers Town—I worked at Crosse and Blackwell's, in Soho-square—it was not then that Mr. Hart called to see me; it was at my mother's—she lived in London—he never called to see me anywhere but in London—he never gave me a sovereign in my mother's presence, he never saw my mother—after I left Johnson-street I went to Brighton with Agar; I was acquainted with him in Johnson-street—I did not know Agar's various names; I mean that I did not know him by the name of Agar, only by the name of Adams—he left me twice—that was not on account of my drunken habits, that I am aware of—he did not allege that as the reason that he left me—I was not in the habit of getting tipsy.
Q. Will you swear that your child was not registered in the name of Agar. A. I knew it when he was registered; he was two years old on 7th July last—in 1854 I knew Agar's real name—Adams and Agar are the only two names I ever knew him by—I know a person named Hodges, he never visited me—I have been in his company, but not for a very long time—he used to give me money, not less than a sovereign at a time—while I was at Pierce's I was out all night for two nights—it was not three nights—I have not been brought home there tipsy—I did not have a quarrel with Pierce on account of my drunken habits, it was on account of a letter I had from Agar, and I left the house—I will not swear that I have never been brought home drunk to Pierce's—I do not recollect being brought home drunk in a wheelbarrow to Shepherd's-bush—it might have happened—I should not think it could have happened more than once—I did not hear of something of the kind afterwards—I have not been down to Portland Island at all where Agar was—I have been supported by the Company since the disclosure which I chose to make—they do not allow me anything, I get my food and lodging, but not my clothes—I do not exactly know how long they have done so, but I suppose it is since last Oct.; two or three months—I knew that Pierce was what is called a betting or sporting man—I have not seen money in his possession, which he has stated in my presence was won by racing—I never saw him with a betting book—I never saw him making books up in the presence of his wife—I will not undertake to say that the amounts which I have received are not as much as 80l., but I do not think it; Mrs. Pierce did not say in my presence that I had—I will venture to swear it is not 100l.—Mrs. Pierce has not frequently complained of my drunken habits; she has told me that it was a pity that I should do so, but merely in a friendly way; she never had occasion to complain of me in her house.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. You said that Burgess introduced you to Agar, where was that? A. At a public house in Tooley-street, I think it was the Green Man—as near as I can remember, Agar was in the room when I went in with Burgess—I do not remember Agar making inquiry about some luggage—I lived with Agar nearly two years—from the time I was introduced to him, to the time I was before the Magistrate, I never saw Burgess—I knew him as a guard—Agar lived at Paddington when he was taken into custody—I did not know that he was living with Emily Campbell, till after he was convicted.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. You have been asked whether Tress and Hodges gave you money and you say that they did, have you any objection to state what it was for, was it for any improper intimacy with you? A. No—Hart
made honourable proposals to me after I left Tunbridge—I had not spoken to him at Tunbridge—I can hardly tell how long I continued under that engagement—it was while I was under that engagement, and after my mother's death, that he gave me money—the letter that I quarrelled with Pierce about, and which I received from Agar, was about money matters—Pierce said that Agar never had any money, that he was mad; he saw Agar's letter, and so did his wife—I never heard of a sum of 3, 000l. Consols, given by Agar to Pierce, to be settled on me to provide for me and my child; Pierce told me he had no money—the second part of the letter which caused the quarrel, was talked of between me and him, he wrote it from Pentonville; he told me I was to buy the two children, Pierce's boy and his boy, two silver cups, and several other things—he said what I was do in the letter, but I had no money to buy the things; he wanted a geography and several things, and Mrs. Pierce proposed sending him an old geography of one of her daughter's—Agar said that Pierce was to give me the money, and I told Pierce so, and his wife too—since X was first examined, I hove been living in the house of a police inspector, Thornton—I have had money, but I have been supported and my child.
COURT. Q. Have you ever heard of 3, 000l. Consols, said to have been provided for you by Agar? A. I never heard anything of it since.
(By the permission of the Court, Mr. Wontner, Pierce's solicitor, stated that Agar had 3, 000l. in the Three per Cents., which had been a long time standing in his name, that he, Mr. Wontner, had his instructions to sell it out, that it realized 2, 700l.; that a number of payments had to be made out of it, and that Agar directed him, by a written order, to hand over the balance, 2, 500l., to Pierce, which he did; that on subsequently asking Pierce if he had invested the money, he replied that he had, in Turkish bonds, and that he had traced the notes handed to Pierce, 'and found that they corresponded with the purchase of Turkish bonds.)
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. to Edward Agar. Q. Did you hear of the loss of the key on board the Folkestone packet? A. Pierce communicated that to me, stating that he had heard it from Teeter—to the best of my belief, I was not on the packet on the very night that it was lost—I did not hear of it being lost till Pierce communicated it to me.
CHARLOTTE PAYNTER . I live at No. 8, Southampton-street, Vauxhall. I am fifteen years old—at one time I lived with a Mr. and Mrs. Adams in the Harleyford-road—I have seen the man Agar who has just left the Court—he is the person that I then lived with as Mr. Adams—I was not long in their service in Harleyford-road, about two or three months—I was there when they moved—it was very cold weather when they moved—it was about Christmas time—they moved to Cambridge-villas—during the time I was with them in the Harleyford-road, I saw Pierce there—I have not often seen him there—he came to see Adams—he was there at the time of the removal—the furniture was moved in a van—Pierce helped to move the things out—I slept at home at that time, and went there to look after the child—I did not accompany them to Cambridge-villas—T went there to live with them—I was a good while in their service there—I remember hearing of the death of a Mrs. Bessell next door to us—I had been there two or three months before Mrs. Bessell died—I saw Pierce at Cambridge-villas as I had done before—he used to come there oftener than to the other place—I was mostly out with the child in the day time—I slept in the house at Cambridge-villas, in the back room up stairs—Mr. and Mrs. Adams slept in the front room—there is a washhouse at the back of the house—I have
known Pierce to be there along with Agar—I had no opportunity of seeing what was going on in the washhouse while they were there—I did not hear anything—I did not hear any noise—sometimes they were there all day—I remember going to the washhouse once, and not being able to get in—Agar and Pierce were in there then—I knocked at the door, and Agar said I could not come in—I did not hear any noise at any time when Agar and Pierce were on the premises—I saw two boxes in the washhouse, one was a green one, and the other a white one—that is the green box (looking at the one produced)—when they were not in the washhouse I could get in—I noticed a vice fixed there—I saw one bag there, a drab one, like that (the leather produced)—it had one long strap to it—I saw Agar once come into the back parlour with that bag, and put it on a chair—I think that was just before Mrs. Bessell died—I cannot tell whether there was anything in the bag—I had not to move or to lift it—there was a common stove in the room where I slept; that continued there as long as I remained—when I used to clean the washhouse I used to posh the boxes along to sweep underneath them—they appeared to be heavy.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Are you quite sure about the time that you left, do you recollect a child of Mrs. Bessell's dying? A. Yes; I did not leave before that—I left after Mrs. Bessell died—I have given my evidence before—I did not notice Pierce doing any carpentering work, or anything of that kind at any time—he helped to move the goods.
MARY ANN WILDE . I lived as servant with Mr. and Mrs. Bessell. I was living there when Mrs. Bessell died—I left about three weeks after her death—I slept in the back room, up stairs—Mr. and Mrs. Adams lived next door—from the window of my bedroom I could see the window of Mr. Adams's washhouse—I could not see into the washhouse so as to see what anybody was doing in it—I have seen Mr. Adams go into it, not often, I cannot say how many times—I have seen Agar—he is the man I call Adams—I once saw another man go into the washhouse with him—I recollect Mr. Bessell borrowing a hammer once from Mr. Adams—I fetched it—I have heard a hammering noise in the washhouse when Adams has been there—I used to hear it frequently.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Do you know Charlotte Paynter, who was servant to Mr. and Mrs. Adams? A. Yes—I remember Mrs. Bessell's death; she died on 18th May, 1855, a child of hers died before that—I did not know whether it was two or three months before or more, I cannot say for certain—Paynter did not leave before Mrs. Bessell's child died; I do not know whether she left before Mrs. Bessell died—I have not been spoken to on this subject since I was examined before the Magistrate—Paynter left after Mrs. Bessell died; she left about a month before I did—Lam sure Paynter left after Mrs. Bessell died—I recollect something that happened after she died—I was at one time under the impression that was before she died, but something brought it to my mind; I recollect showing her something after Mrs. Bessell died—Mr. Bessell was not in the habit of hammering much, he put up the clothes lines in the garden—he did not hammer at anything else in the garden, I only borrowed the hammer once, Mr. Adams lent it me at once.
ZACCHEUS LONG . I live at No. 5, Crown-terrace, Haverstock-hill. On 18th Dec., 1854, Pierce took the house, No. 4, of me, and he terminated his tenancy on 18th June, 1855, and then went to live at No. 3.
rented a house of me in Crown-terrace, No. 3—he took it on 18th May, 1855, and went into it on 4th June—he remained there about a month.
WILLIAM ELLIS WOOD . I am a cab proprietor, residing in Hawley-mews, Hawley-street, Camden-town. I drive one of my own cabs, No. 3016—I remember being out with my cab in the spring of 1855, and being called by some man, and driving to somewhere near the Prince of Wales; it was about 7 or half past 7 o'clock in the evening—I stopped about 200 or 300 yards from Crown-terrace, at the corner of the high road—the man who had called me, then went away towards Crown-terrace; he afterwards returned with another man, they had two or three bags with them—I cannot swear which, one I think was leather, and two carpet bags—they ordered me to drive to the Brighton station—when I got over London bridge, they stopped me by the Bridge Hotel, on the right hand side—one of the men was, I should say, four or five inches taller than the other—when we got to the Bridge Hotel, one got out, and went towards the station, or towards Tooley-street, the one who remained in the cab, ordered me to St. Thomas's-street—I went there, and stopped against Guy's Hospital—I was told to pull up there—the men had mantles of some description; they had not got them on when they went in, they were on their arms then, but they placed them on when they got out, at least one man did—I could not hear anything that passed inside as I went along, I merely felt the action of the cab was very different to what it out to be, as if somebody was standing up, or moving about—I never felt the bags, and could not form any opinion whether they were heavy or light—the man who got out of the cab was away, I suppose, a quarter or half an hour—when he returned they ordered me to drive back again to where I had come from—when I got up to Hampstead-road, I was ordered to turn up towards the Mother Shipton—I did so, and they discharged me there, and went away with their bags—that is about 200 or 300 yards from Crown-terrace—there are two ways by which you can go to Crown-terrace; those are the two ways. I have mentioned—I saw the men again, I cannot say whether it was a week afterwards, or it might not be so long: they came and fetched me off the rank then, near Chalk Farm; I was not on the rank the first time—it was the same man that fetched me, the shorter man—he took me to the same place, went away, and brought another man with him, and the same luggage—I think it was the same person that he had fetched on the former occasion, but I cannot swear to that—the two were of different heights—I cannot swear that the tall man was the same, but I know the shorter man that hired me was—I drove them then to St. Thomas's-street, on St. Thomas's Hospital side—I stopped there, and the shorter man got out—I noticed the same sort of action of the cab that time—they seemed to be rustling or moving about in the cab, as if they were looking out or something—after the shorter man had been away about half or three-quarters of an hour, he returned; they had some conversation, and then they ordered me back again—on that occasion they had cloaks on their arms when they got in—I then went to the Prince of Wales-road, on the Hampstead-road side—I was ordered to set them down at the other end—they got out there, and took their luggage away; I could not carry it, because you cannot get down that road—that is about 200 yards from Crown-terrace—I saw them again; it might be a week after, but I cannot remember how long it was—the one man fetched me again from the rank, the short man, the same that had fetched me on the two former occasions—he took me to the same the Hampstead-road, the Prince of Wales's corner, left me, and
fetched the same man, I think, as before, but I could not swear as to that; he was of the height of the man that had come on the former occasions—they brought their luggage and cloaks just as before—they told me to drive to St. Thomas's-street, in the Borough—I did so—I pulled up, I think, on the St. Thomas's Hospital side—the short one got out, and went away; he seemed to bend his way to the left, as if he was going towards Tooley-street; I do not know whether there is any way to the station that way—on that occasion I lifted one of their carpet bags; it was heavy; it weighed, I should say, a quarter of a cwt., or more—the man returned to the cab the third time, got in, and ordered me back to where I had come from—I should say this was the latter end of April, or the beginning of May; it was somewhere about that time, it was always dark when we returned in the evening.
Q. Did they appear to you to be equals, or that one was a person of more authority than the other? A. One appeared to me like a valet to the other; the shorter one always appeared to me as if he was a valet—the short man generally gave me directions where to go.
JOSEPH CARTER . I live at No. 143, Grove-street, Camden-town; I drive a cab, and have done so for twenty years. I remember being hired by two men at Camden-town—from the time I first spoke about it, which is nearly two months ago, it was about fifteen or sixteen months; it might have been more—Pierce was one of the men, and Agar was the other—it was in the evening part—they both came together; I was on the rank in High-street, Camden-town—they brought some bags with them, two, if not three; by the way they put them into the cab, they appeared to me to be heavy, because the cab rather sounded at the bottom—they got in, and desired me to drive St. Thomas's-street, in the Borough; I pulled up on the left hand side, at the bottom—I believe there is a way there to the arch of the railway terminus—Agar got out of the cab, and the other one remained—Agar went to the left, towards the arch—he was gone half an hour—when he returned I heard him say to Pierce, "It is not a going down to-night"—he then got into the cab—I drove them up to the top, on the near side, and I believe they had a glass of ale; one of them had, I know—they then ordered me to drive them to the Mother Shipton—they got out there—one got out first, and went into the public house, into the doorway—they took out the bags, and paid me my fare—when I was crossing the road I looked round, and saw them both going along Prince's-terrace, towards Crown-terrace; they had their bags with them—I did not take any notice of the way in which they were dressed—I had seen Pierce before, up and down Camden-town—I have seen Agar and Pierce both together, but not to know them, to have anything to do with them, before that time—I have seen them coming along together, and pass the rank in High-street, Camden-town, which is my usual place of standing, and has been for the last twenty years.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. What time in the day do you say it was that your cab was ordered? A. It was evening part, towards 5 or 6 o'clock, or it might have been a little later—it was not as late as 9 o'clock, I am quite certain—I did not hear of the gold robbery at any time; I swear that; I never heard a word of it, no further than I heard of a gold robbery, but not to know that I had anything to do concerning it; I have heard people talking about it—I was first discovered as a witness in this case, on the Friday before I gave notice at Scotland-yard—I did not go down to the Mansion-house twice before I was examined—I was not examined the first day I went there—I was there one day before—during those days I did not see Pierce and Agar brought in, neither of them
saw them standing at the bar after I went in, before the Lord Mayor—they had not been pointed out to me before—the first time I saw them since I gave information was standing in the dock at the Mansion-house charged with this offence—I did not read Agar's evidence—I swear that—I never talked about it, not a word—I heard them talk about his coming forward, but I never heard his evidence, nor heard any talk about it—the persons I drove in my cab had no cloaks, at least I did not take notice of that—I was asked, and I said I did not see any.
JOHN PACKER KNIGHT . re-examined. I have been at the place which the cabmen have described, near St. Thomas's Hospital—there are two ways from that place up to the station—there are two sets of steps; one leads from Joiner-street up to the Brighton station, and the other from Tooley-street up to the Greenwich side of the station.
MR. BODKIN. to FANNY BOLAN KAY. Q. Do you remember Pierce at any time being lame? A. Yes; he had the lumbago; that was during the time I was at Cambridge-villas.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you ever mentioned that fact before to-day? A. Not that I know of.
JAMES CLEMENTS . In May, June, and July, 1855, I kept a coffee-shop in High-street, Camden-town, adjoining the Southampton Arms, near the turnpike—I left that shop last July twelve months—some time before that I remember two persons coming to my house one evening—I cannot say exactly how long before it was, but I should think between two and three months; one was rather shorter than the other—they brought a carpet bag, I believe, with them—one of them went away and stopped for some time, about an hour, I cannot say exactly—when he came back, they took the bag and went away, and I saw no more of them—I did not see whether they had a cab or not.
JOHN ALLDAY . I live at Newbury Mews, Haverstock-hill, which is about half a quarter of a mile from Crown-terrace—I found some shot in Prince's-terrace; that leads from the Maldon road, not a stone's throw from Crown-terrace—a person going from Crown-terrace to Kentish-town, or in that direction, would go along the place where I found the shot; it was strewn along the road by the side of the kerb—I picked up about a double handful, and a lot more boys picked up some besides me—I cannot recollect when this was; it is a good while ago—I left school three years ago—it was a good while after I left school—there were two or three sizes of shot (looking at some in one of the bags produced)—there were some the size of this, and some might be a little larger.
EMMA MAY . I now reside at Mr. Holden's, No. 18, London-street, Greenwich. I formerly lived as servant with Mrs. Thomas, when she kept the Marquis of Granby, at New-cross—I lived there for five years and a half—I left in Feb., two years come next month—I know Burgess; he was in the habit of coming to the Marquis of Granby—he lived near there—I know Pierce; he also frequented that house—they came there a great many times—I cannot say how often—they used to go to the bar parlour—that was where the general run of customers went—when that was full, they used to go into the next room; that was a public room as well—they used to come in the morning between 11 and 12 o'clock, and in the evening between 7 and 8 o'clock—they did not very often come together; they did sometimes.
Q. Have you known either of them come when the other was in the house before him? A. Yes, sometimes Pierce and Agar, but I never knew
their names—I used to know them by sight—I knew Agar—I saw him last a goodish bit before I left—I did not know that his name was Agar then, I have heard it since—I saw him at the Mansion-house—he used to come to the house with Burgess and Pierce—he used to come as often as the others.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. It is a railway house, is it not, frequented very much by the railway men? A. No, there are not a great many come there—I knew where Burgess lived; he lived at New-cross—when they came in, they used to have a glass of beer or something to drink; they used generally to drink half-and-half—they came and drank like other customers, very moderately—I objected to that—the rooms I speak of are the public rooms used by the customers—if they went from one room that was full, very likely the other was half full; they would be in the presence of ten or twelve persons.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. When did you first say that you knew Agar by sight? A. I had been there a good while before I took any notice of them coming—I never heard Agar's name—I have seen Agar, Burgess, and Pierce together a good many times—I cannot say how long ago—I should think I saw them about six or eight months before I left—I left two years come next month.
WALTER STEARN . I keep the White Hart public house, St. Thomas's-street, Borough. I know Pierce and Burgess—I have known them from seven to eight years, I should think—previously to May, 1855, they had been in the habit of frequenting my house, separately and together—I do not think I had seen Agar previously to May, 1855—I cannot remember the time that I knew him—I am not aware that I saw him at my house after the middle of May, 1855—I have seen him at my house, but I do not know the dates or the times; I should think it was not since May, 1855, but I am not sure—I remember hearing of the robbery; I cannot say whether it was before I heard of the robbery or after—I have seen him with Pierce and Burgess two or three times—they have been together taking refreshment, not long together at a time, a very short time—I believe I have seen them all three together—there have been other persons in the house at the time—I remember in Feb. last a parcel being given to me by my servant—I saw Burgess a day or two afterwards, I think, and he asked me if I had a parcel for him—I said I had, and produced it—he opened it while I was in the room; I saw that it contained notes—he at the same time gave me 500l. all in notes, and consulted me as to what should be done with it—I advised him to deposit it with a banker—he objected to that, and I told him I would go up to my brewers, Messrs. Reid's, and ask them if they would receive the money—he consented to do that—I took the money to Reid's, and saw Mr. Smith, their cashier, and left the money with him—I afterwards received some interest upon it from Messrs. Reid; I left it with my barmaid, and she handed it to Burgess with the book—this (produced) is the book, and this is the entry on 19th Feb.
COURT. Q. Do you know that you deposited the money on the same day as is dated there? A. Yes.
SARAH THOMPSON . I am barmaid to Mr. Stearn, and was so in Feb. last—I remember giving Mr. Stearn a parcel containing bank notes—I received that parcel from a person named Lee—as near as I can recollect, it was addressed to Mr. Burgess—I afterwards gave Burgess 8l. 1s. 1d. for interest—I received that from Mr. Stearn—I showed Burgess this book at the time I gave him the money—Burgess did not say anything to me about the parcel when I paid him the 8l—I gave him the money, saying that Mr. Stearn had
left it, and showed him the book—I had not any conversation with him about the parcel before I received it from Lee, nor after—I never spoke to him about the parcel, nor he to me.
RICHARD LEE . I am a stockjobber, of Charlotte-street, Camberwell—I have known Burgess eight or nine years, Pierce about eight years, and Tester four years perhaps—I was formerly in the employment of the South Eastern Company, as clerk—at that time Pierce was ticket porter to the Company, and Burgess was guard—I have been in the habit of using Stearn's public house, and have seen them there occasionally—at the beginning of Feb., 1856, Burgess saw me at Mr. Stearn's, and asked me if I knew anything about Turkish bonds—I said, "Yea"—he asked me the price—I referred to the paper, and found that it was 8l., or something like that, and he gave me instructions to buy 500l. stock—I went to Hutchinsons', the broken, and asked them to do it for me, and they did—I took a note of the purchase to Burgess at Steam's—I bought for a day or two on, because being 500l., it was not so easily got as 1, 000l.—the consideration altogether was 407l. 10s.—I went to New Cross, and got the money from Mrs. Burgess—Mr. Burgess asked me when I should want the money; I said, "It does not matter for a day or two," and he said, "I will leave it at home; ask Mrs. Burgess for it;" and I did so—405l. of it was in notes, and 2l. 10s. in gold—I paid the same notes to Hutchinsons; I wrote the numbers of them, but left it at New Cross, at Mrs. Burgess's, for safety—I wrote my name on the notes—these three 100l. notes, and eight 10l. notes, are part of what I received from her, and paid to Hutchinsons—my writing is on them (the notes were Nos. 45421, 45423, and 45424 for 100l. each, 9th Jan., 1855, and eight 10l. notes, Nos. 21560 to 21567, all dated 5th June, 1855).
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. You say that you saw the prisoner at Stearn's, do you mean the whole of these three men? A. No—I never saw Tester there—I never said that I saw them all three there—I know nothing of Tester being employed on the railway, excepting that he was clerk.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. to J. P. KNIGHT. Q. What were Tester's hours of work) A. From 9 o'clock in the morning to 5 in the afternoon—it would occasionally happen that he would stay after that time, but those were his regular hours.
MR. LEE., Cross-examined by MR. GIFFABD. Q. You say that you have known Burgess seven or eight years? A. Yes—he has always borne the character of an honest man—I had 405l. in notes from Mrs. Burgess—407l. 10s. I obtained from her in all—I paid the whole at that time—you have had the notes from the banker's, and you will find my endorsement on them—I remember five weeks after the Turkish bonds were purchased, that I sold them again for him for 464l. 7s. 6d.—he obtained a profit of 57l. 10s. on that transaction—at the time he bought them, he said that he understood that they would rise 20 per cent, and they did rise 22—I sold them at 93l.
MR. BODKIN. Q. When was it you sold them? A. Some time in the beginning of Feb.—I had a cheque for them on 15th Feb.—I employed Hutchinsons to sell them, and I had half commission—they gave me a cheque on Curtis's, and I got it cashed there, put the notes in an envelope, and went over the water and left them at Mr. Stearn's, for Burgess—I gave them to the young woman, Thompson, the same notes.
books—(The bank books were here sent for)—I know of the return of those notes—I have a 100l. note of 9th Jan., 1855, No. 45420, which was returned on 14th Sep., 1855; it has the name of Tester on it—I did not see it at the time it was returned—I have taken it off the file of that day—the Christian name is torn off—here is part of a "G," and underneath is "For C. Page"—I have also a 100l. note, No. 45422, dated 9th Jan., which came in on 11th Sep., 1855; it has on it "Wm. Geo. Tester, 11 Sep., 6, St. Jermyn's Villas, Lewisham"—I only know for what it was exchanged by examining the bank books; somebody else can tell you—the next is a 10l. note, No. 44525, 9th Jan., which came in on 21st Nov., 1855, with the name on it of "Geo. Raffan, 72, Warren-street, Fitzroy-square," and "Henry Fisher"—there is also "R. B." for Royal British—the three other 100l. notes which have been put in already were taken off the file; they have the name of "J. Burgess," on them—I do not know of my own knowledge who paid them in, but I know that they came in through Robarts and Co., because I know the way in which they mark their notes—eight 10l. Bank of England notes, Nos. 221860 to 221867 inclusive, were paid in on 9th Jan. 1856, they are part of the same parcel as the three 100l. notes I have just mentioned—I remember a 100l. note, No. 42255, being taken off the file; it had the name of "Stearn" on it.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I understand you are able by the bank books to ascertain when the notes were paid in? A. Yes—of these two 100l. notes with Tester's name on them, No. 45420 was paid in on 14th Sept., 1855, and No. 45422 was changed over the counter on 11th Sept., 1855—I can find out when these notes were issued—there is nothing on the notes to tell me, there never is, but it was subsequent to the date of course; the date is 9th Jan., 1855.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Have you got a 100l. note there with the name of Raffan upon it? A. Yes.
J. P. KNIGHT., re-examined. This G. or Geo. Tester on this 100l. note 45420 is, I believe, Tester's writing, as is also this "Wm. Geo. Tester, 6, St. Jermyn's Villas, Lewisham" on No. 48422—he lived at Lewisham, I forget the exact address.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Are you quite satisfied of that? A. Yes—the two signatures resemble each other—I know the writing very well from his being in the same office with me, and I saw his writing daily—there is no concealment about it; it is quite the style.
GEORGE RAFFAN . I am a porter in the neighbourhood of Fitzroy-square—I know Pierce—he requested me to change a 100l. Bank of England note, or to get it changed—I do not know the number of it—I wrote my name on it, and took it to a person named Fisher, in Cranbrook-street, who gave me smaller notes for it—this (produced) is it, here is my name on it in my writing—I do not know Fisher's writing—about twelve or thirteen months ago from this time, Pierce asked me to go to the Bank of England, it was somewhere about the same time, they might be a month apart—I took sundry notes, and brought away 200 sovereigns for them; he told me to go over to the far end and I should see a little desk, and I could write my name on one of them—I did so, and got the money in gold for the notes.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT PARRT. Q. At that time, were you in Pierce's employment? A. Yes—I received 30s. a week from him as wages—I was in his employment thirteen or fourteen months, or it might be fifteen, I cannot say to a day or two—it was not two years—I left him about June or July last—it was in the beginning of 1855, and during a portion
of 1856, that I was in his employ—he kept a betting house, and hail considerable betting transactions—from time to time I have been In the habit of changing notes for him frequently, and giving him notes taken in business from the gentlemen with whom he bet—I took them in business, and gave them to him—I once changed the notes for gold, and once for smaller notes—I never took notes to the bank at any other time—I have known considerable sums of money in his possession from time to time arising from betting transactions—I have seen as much as 1002. or 200l. notes in husband, and more, derived from betting transactions—he used to go to the races.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. When was it that he had money derived from betting? A. From the beginning of last year, 1856, about Feb., but not previous in Panton-street—I had done business before for him—since Feb. I have seen the most extensive bets; I have seen as much as 200l.—I cannot say when; it would be in 1855, and about the spring time—the first place that I knew where he lived was in Crown-terrace—I have seen him win notes—I was an agent for him in getting—I never saw any money in Crown-terrace—he was living there when I saw the notes—but I did not see them there—he did not tell me how he got them—I never took his clothes out of pledge previous to the spring of 1855; I took a pair of boots out if you term them clothes—that was early in the spring of 1855—I cannot call to mind what they were pledged for.
Mr. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. In 1856 were not you engaged in making up a betting book, to the extent of some hundreds, for Pierce? A. No; I was not so engaged at a place called the Boar's Head—I made up a book when a horse called Saucebox won the St. Ledger—I cannot say exactly the extent—it was something like 100l.—that was in Sept., 1855.
JOHN SMITH . I am a cashier to. Reid and Co., brewers. On 19th Feb. a deposit was made there by Mr. Stearn; I took the number of the notes, and wrote my name on them—these two 100l. notes, Nos. 39538 and 42255 have the name of Stearn on them in my writing, and so have these 50l., notes, Nos. 19324, 21858, 26249, 26711, and 28489; also these two 20l. notes, Nos. 73624 and 75625, and this 10l. note, No. 21558.
ALFRED JOSEPH YOUNG . I am a stock and share broker. I know the witness, Edward Agar—on 17th Aug., 1854, he employed me to purchase, some Spanish bonds for him, in the name of Robert Adams—I bought for him 765l. Spanish Three per Cent stock—I delivered them to him in two bonds, one of 510l. and the other of 255l.—(Upon the witness being asked the number of these bonds, MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. objected, on the ground that it was giving evidence of the contents of a document, which could not be done without proof of its loss. MR. BARON MARTIK was clearly of opinion, that the evidence was admissible, not to prove the contents of a document, but for the purposes of identification, in the same way that proof of the identity of (my chattel, or the number of a cab, or the brand of oxen would be receivable; he had, in a case on the Western Circuit, allowed a party to describe the endorsement on a deed, for the purpose of identifying it: and the Court of Queen's Bench had held that decision to be correct. MR. JUSTICE WILLES had also no doubt that the evidence was receivable)—The No. of the 510l. bond was 1658, and of the 255l. bond, No. 1084—in the month of Nov. I purchased another bond for him, of 255l. stock, No. 2675.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose he paid you the money? A. Yes.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. You gave those bonds to Agar? A. Yes.
WILLIAM SINCLAIR ST. GEORGE FORRESTER . I am a stock broker, in Angel-Court, Throgmorton-street—I succeeded to the business of Mr. William Shaw, to whom I had previously been clerk—while I was his clerk the prisoner, Tester, became a customer of his in share transactions—he was introduced by his father, Mr. William Tester—I bought for the prisoner Tester 100l. consols, on 27th June, 1855, and in about two months we sold out the whole of it—in June, 1856, I purchased for him three Spanish bonds.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Do you mean that by the direction of Tester you purchased anything for him in 1856? A. "No, the only transaction we had for the prisoner was the 100l. consols.
COURT. Q. Did you ever see Tester? A. Yes, he attended himself to sell out the 100l. consols that he had bought.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. On 3rd Jan. 1856, did you sell out two bonds for Mr. William Tester? (MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. objected to this question, MR. SERJEANT SHEE. proposed to connect the prisoner with the transaction in question, but upon the objection being pressed, postponed the question,)
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Just look at the names on those two 100l. notes, and tell me whether they are in Tester's hand writing, according to your belief or not—you know his hand writing I suppose? A. I do; I should say they were—it is like his ordinary hand-writing—there is no concealment whatever—I received this bond from his father, not from him—I only know what his father told me.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. When did you first get possession of it? A. On 1st Dec 1856—I have seen the prisoner Tester since, and have spoken with him respecting that bond—he said his possession of it was perfectly legitimate.
MR. FORRESTER., re-examined. (Looking at the bond) I have no recollection of the number of the bond I purchased, without referring to my book—(referring) it corresponds with the entry in my book.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Is the entry in your own handwriting? A. Yes.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. Where did you purchase that bond? A. It appears to have been bought on 27th Feb., 1856—the consideration money given for it was 438l. 12s.—we sold other Spanish bonds, the produce of which was invested in this bond.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. Q. Who was it produced to you the bonds that were sold as part payment of that bond. A. Mr. William Tester, the father—I think I mentioned before, that we never purchased any Spanish bonds for the prisoner.
MR. SERJEANT SHEE. Q. Then you purchased the bond produced, with the proceeds of other bonds sold out by you for Mr. William Tester, the father? A. Yes; with other bonds which we had orginally bought for Mr. William Tester—I have all the entries in my book here—it was the produce of the sale of certain Spanish bonds which he brought to us, which were invested in other Spanish bonds active and deferred—on 3rd Jan., 1856, we bought for Mr. William Tester three bonds of 510l. each, Nos. 5245. 22403, and 29923.
Q. I ask you with what monies you purchased the bonds which you sold for the one produced? A. Mr. Tester brought us some bonds to sell—he
give us the bonds—we do not know how he became possessed of them—they were three bonds, one of 510l., No. 1658; and two of 255l. each, Nos. 125 and 1084—Mr. William Tester gave me those bonds on 3rd Jan., 1856—the sale of those and the purchase of the others were effected at the same time—we afterwards sold the others, and with the proceeds this bond was bought.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEAN BALLANTINE. Q. How long had you known Mr. Tester the elder? A. I believe he had been in the habit of doing business at the office many years before I came there—he is a man of respectability—I do not know his means at all, but we always considered him a highly respectable man, a man whose orders we always took—he had never been dealing with Spanish bonds before to my knowledge—Jan., 1856, was the earliest date of his dealing with Spanish bonds—he brought the bonds to us on 3rd Jan., 1856—I do not know what he is—he resides at Dover.
WILLIAM COCK TILLEY . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. On 28th May, 1855, I gave six 100l. notes for 600 sovereigns—the name of Edginton, Duke-street, was given when the exchange was made—I do not know the person who gave that name—the Nos. of the notes I gave were Nos. 45420 to 45425 inclusive, all dated 9th Jan.
ARCHIBALD GRIFFITHS . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. On 11th Sept. 1855, a 100l. Bank of England note, No. 45422, was exchanged with me for smaller notes—when that note was brought to me to be changed, it had the name on it that is on it now, "W. G. Tester, 6 St. Jermyn's-villas, Lewisham"—the Nos. of the 10l. notes I gave in exchange were Nos. 21558 to 21567 inclusive—(MR. SERJEANT SHEE produced nine of those notes, and stated that eight of them had the name of Burgees upon them, and the ninth the name of Stearn; the tenth note, MR. BAYLEY. stated, had not yet been paid in.)
EDWARD NATALI FRANCIS . I am a partner in the firm of Edgington and Co., of Duke-street The South Eastern Railway Company are occasionally customers of ours, very rarely—we carry on business close by the station—I know nothing of the exchange of 600 sovereigns for six 100l. Bank of England notes at the Bank of England, on 28th May, 1855, in the name of our firm.
RICHARD LEE . re-examined. I know Pierce—about the middle of March last, I got a small Spanish bond from him, which I took to Messrs. Hutchinson—they sold it for me and gave me a cheque for the amount—I got it cashed at Robarts's, and paid the proceeds to Pierce—he gave me no directions afterwards.
MR. SERJEANT BALLANTINE. to MR. FORRESTER. Q. What is the value of that bond at 48 per cent.? A. I must have my book again (referring)—I think the value at 52 discount would be an odd sum, I cannot tell it exactly—the Spanish government promises to pay 3 per cent—the nominal value is 1, 020l.
Q. I understand you, that you received no cash on the transaction, except cash realized by the sale of other bonds? A. I think at the last exchange there might have been a trifling balance of 1l. or 2l—the exact sum was 438l. 12s.—there was no cash passed except just to make up the balance.
CHARLES COUSINS . I am clerk to Messrs. Hutchinson and Co., stock brokers, of Lothbury. I sold a Spanish bond for Mr. Lee, No. 2, 675—I have here my entry of the sale—it was for 255l. Spanish 3 per cents.—(MR. BARON MARTIN. did not see the relevancy of this evidence and it was not pursued.)
JOHN CHARLES REES . I am solicitor to the South Eastern Railway Company. I have conducted the investigation in this matter, and am conducting this prosecution—I went to the house at Kilburn-villa, on the same day that Piece was taken into custody, it has a garden in front, and leading from the garden to the street door, there is a flight of stone steps—I went down to the basement part of that house—I found a sort of pantry underneath the front steps—I made a search there—I found that the ground had been disturbed against the wall of the pantry furthest from the house, underneath the steps—a hole had evidently been dug there at some former time, and in place of the clay which was the natural formation of the ground, I found, that the hole was filled with loose cinders and rubbish, there were appearances which enabled me to judge how recently the hole had been filled up, in the cinders were fresh leaves and autumn berries, and part of the claw of a lobster, evidently quite fresh—there were several things found in the house, some Turkish bonds to a considerable amount, I believe 2, 600l., or thereabouts, some deeds, leases, securities for money, I O U's and promissory notes, and things of that sort; the officer who has them will give the particulars—several boxes were found—the green tool box which has been produced was found in one of the attics in the same condition that it is now; these two pieces of leather were in it—I had previous to this, on 22nd Sept., been to the house, No. 3, Cambridge-villas—it was then uninhabited and empty—it was a house of two stories, with two rooms below and two above, with a small dressing room—I went up to the back room, first floor—I found an ordinary stove in the chimney place—I caused it to be removed, and behind it found the three fire bricks which have been produced—the chimney was entirely free from soot, and had evidently been subjected to a very intense heat—I examined the bricks and found appearances of gold on them—they were exactly in the same state as they are now—I looked at the floor—I found that the boards had been burnt in several places, principally in front of the fire place, between the fire place and the window—I caused some of the boards to be taken up where the burning was, and I Sound several small particles of gold—these are them (producing them)—they had evidently dropped through the boards on to the ceiling below—at the time I went to Cambridge-villas, I had not had any interview with Agar, at Portland; I had, of course, before Pierce's arrest—I did not, in my interview with Agar, say anything to him of what I had discovered at Cambridge-villas, nor did he know that I had been to the house—I had an order from the Secretary of State to be permitted to see him—upon the second occasion of my going down, he made a statement to me—he had made the statement before I went to the house at Kilburn-villas;. it was in consequence of that that I went to the cellar, as I have described.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. What was the date of your visit to Agar? A. I cannot give it you exactly—the first visit I think was about the first week in Oct., but he made no communication to me at that time—the visit at which he did make a communication, was about ten days or a fortnight afterwards, or perhaps a little more—I am not quite sure as to these dates—it was in Oct., certainly—I was not the solicitor for the South Eastern Railway Company at the time the claim of Mr. Abel was first made against them, nor in fact at any part of the time—I did not examine any witnesses with respect to the claim of Mr. Abel.
FREDERICK WILLIAMSON . I am a detective officer. I went to the house in Kilburn Villa—I discovered a box there with some tools in it—it was the green box that has been produced—I do not remember finding the leather
in that box—the box with the tools in it was conveyed to Mr. Rees' office, London-bridge, on 7th or 8th Nov.—it was found on the 5th—I also found there fourteen Turkish three per cent, bonds, three of 500l. each, five for 100l., and six for 50l., and a gold watch and chain—there is a representation of Windsor castle on the face of the watch, and the initials E. R. A. on the back—the Turkish bonds were in a tin box with a variety of memorandums, and other things—I think the green box was taken to Mr. Bees' office by Sergeant Smith.
MR. REES. re-examined. I took the green box from Pierce's to my office, and it has been there ever since—it contained these pieces of leather.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. Q. Were there some betting-books and I O U's taken from Pierce? A. Either from Pierce or from his house, I do not recollect which.
MR. SERJEANT PARRY. submitted that, as regarded Pierce, the only Count upon which he was called upon to address the Jury was the 3rd, charging a simple larceny; he was clearly not a servant of the Company at the time of the robbery, as alleged in the 1st Count; the 2nd Count, charging a larceny in a dwelling house, could not be supported, and, as to the 4th, charging him as a receiver, the evidence, if believed, pointed quite the other way; MR. SERJEANT SHEE. did not rely upon the 2nd Count, but, as to the 1st, he contended that, although Pierce was not in the Company's service at the time of the robbery, yet, as he was clearly an accessory before the fact, under 11th and 12th Victoria, c. 46, he might be treated in the same way as Burgess and Tester, who were the Company's servants and principals in the robbery; MR. BARON MARTIN. was of opinion that the 11th and 12th Victoria did not apply to such a case as the present, and that the 3rd Count was the only one which applied to the case against Pierce.
PIERCE— GUILTY . on 3rd Count. Aged 40.— Confined Two Years; Three Months Solitary.
BURGESS— GUILTY . Aged 35.
TESTER— GUILTY . Aged 26.
Transported for Fourteen Years.
251. In the case of JAMES KIMLEY , indicted at the last Sessions for a burglary in the dwelling house of Jesse East, and stealing therein 4 gowns, and other goods, the prisoner pleaded Guilty, aged 21, and was sentenced to Twelve Months Imprisonment.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, FEBRUARY. 2ND, 1857.