Old Bailey Proceedings, 17th September 1855.
Reference Number: t18550917
Reference Number: f18550917



A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.


OLD COURT.—Monday, September 17th, 1855.


Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-841

841. HENRY ROBERT MENDHAM was indicted for embezzling the sums of 1l. 7s. 5d., 8s. 10d., and 1l. 9s. 6d.; the moneys of Samuel Martin, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined four Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-842

842. WILLIAM JONES , stealing a purse, 3 half crowns, and 4 penny pieces; the property of Robert Harper, from the person of Charlotte Harper: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Four Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-843

843. JOHN HOWSE , unlawfully damaging a certain model in Hampton Court Palace.

MR. BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.

VIRTUE THIRKETTLE . I am an attendant at Hampton Court Palace. It is my duty to attend in the withdrawing room—that is a place where articles are placed, to see which the public are admitted by permission of the Queen—there is a model in that room of the Palace of Moorshelabad at Bengal—it is very large—(looking at a drawing) this correctly represents the rear and portico of it—it is an object of curiosity, and is kept there as such—on 20th Aug., between 1 and 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I was in a small room adjoining the withdrawing room, having my dinner—I heard some footsteps in the withdrawing room, and opened the door—I had a very good sight of the model—I saw only one person near it; that was the prisoner—he walked up to the model, and put his hand on a piece of the wire which represents the balcony railing of the palace, and felt it—he took his hand off, and then put it on again directly, and pulled the piece of wire

from between the columns, and put it into Ms pocket—this is it (produced)—it was between four and five feet from the ground—his arm was about level with it—he put it into his pocket, and walked away—I put on my hat, and walked quickly after him—he went down the stairs, into the quadrangle before I overtook him—he walked down by himself—there was no person with him—there were some persons talking to him—I stopped him in the yard, and told him I wanted him—he said, "What for?"—I said, "For breaking a piece of the railing off the model; you have got it in your pocket; give it to me; if you don't, I shall take it from you"—he put his hand into his pocket, took it out, and said, "Is this it?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I found it lying on the boards"—I said he must go before the superintendent of the Palace, I had nothing more to do with it—he was then given into custody—I am sure this piece of wire was not lying on the boards; it was fastened to the model, and was torn from it—the prisoner appeared to have been drinking.

Cross-examined by MR. PLATT. Q. How soon before this happened had you seen the model, to look at it? A. Perhaps half an hour; in fact, I had passed it as I was going in to have my dinner, which was much less than that—I am sure the railing was perfectly safe then—it is a very small portion—the model has been there many years—perhaps there had been 500 persons in the room during the morning—there was nothing strange about the prisoner being there—this railing formed a portion of the model—I was in the small dining room—the door was shut until I opened it, on hearing some one walking along, and looked through to see who it was—I saw him put his hand twice to the model—he did not take it the first time—he had not been looking at it before—he was feeling it when I opened the door—he had not been there half a minute—I think it would come away very easily if touched—there were other persons in the room at the time, but nobody could see him do it but myself, because this was the back part of the model—it has a very long front to it, and the prisoner was there by himself—a person standing in front could not see what was done at the back—I think he was intoxicated—he was not drunk at the time he did it—I certainly think he had been drinking, but he was not drunk then, he was very soon afterwards—I am sure he had been drinking—when I spoke to him he appeared quite intoxicated.

MR. BODKIN. Q. When you went up to him, and charged him with this offence, he presented the appearance of being drunk? A. He did—he did not present the same appearance up stairs—he had no opportunity of drinking anything in the mean time.

COURT. Q. When you were looking through the door, could you see his hand go on to the wire? A. Very plainly—I saw his hand go twice to it—he did not shake it; he merely felt it.

MR. PLATT. Q. Did he appear to have been smoking? A. Certainly not, he did not smell of smoke.

COURT. Q. How was this fastened A. With white lead, I think—the points at the bottom are put into little holes made on purpose.

BENJAMIN COLE (policeman, A 138). The prisoner was given into my custody—I took him back to the room in which the model was, and fitted the wire to it—he said nothing at that time—he had the appearance of having been drinking—I should say it was not entirely assumed—I have no doubt he had been drinking—I asked him who he was; he made no reply at the time—in conveying him to the House of Detention, he wrote his wife's name and address in my pocket book—this is it—"Mrs. Howse,

15, New-place, Limehouse"—I found that to be his correct address—he said he worked with Mr. Scapes, at the galvanised iron works, Commercial-road, and that the works were in Copenhagen-place—he also gave his masters office address; I found that correct—he asked me what punishment I thought he would get; I said I could not tell.

Cross-examined. Q. His friends came round him directly you had charge of him? A. Yes; they seemed very decent, respectable people—I was not obliged to hold him up as we went along; he leant on a friend's arm—he was quite capable of walking—he was not smoking—persons are not allowed to smoke there, but they will do it sometimes—he was first charged with taking this feloniously.

JAMES ROBINSON SAUNDERS COX . I am one of the chief clerks in the office of the Commissioners of Public Works—the Board has the charge of the models and objects of curiosity at Hampton Court-palace—this model was one of them.


Reference Number: t18550917-844

844. FREDERICK TURNER and JANE TURNER , stealing 7 yards of ribbon, value 9s.; the goods of John Lockett.

ELIZABETH EMMERSON . I am in the employ of Mr. Lockett, who keeps a lace and ribbon shop, at No. 58, St. Paul's-churchyard—last Saturday week, between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening, the female prisoner came in and asked for some brown ribbon; she bought one yard, value 3d., and one yard of other ribbon, value 7 1/2 d—I showed her a number of boxes of ribbon, but she went away without buying any more—in putting the boxes away a minute or two afterwards, I saw that there was a space in one of the boxes which I had shown to her, and missed a piece of ribbon—this (produced) is it—I received it from the policeman—here is the private mark on it—here are six or seven yards of it—there was also an empty space in one of the other boxes, but I cannot swear to this other piece of ribbon (produced) as there is no mark on it.

JANE TURNER . Q. Did not you return the boxes to their places before you went to get change for is., and brought me three halfpence out? A. I put one or two up before I took your money, but not the whole of them—I showed you so many, as you were very undecided.

MICHAEL HAYDON (City policeman, 21). On this Saturday night, at 7 o'clock, I was on duty in Ludgate-street with Brett, and saw the male prisoner opposite Mr. Willey's shop, on the other side of the road, looking towards the shop—I looked in and saw the female prisoner coming out; she went up the street towards St. Paul's-churchyard, where they joined, and walked arm-in-arm together along the north side of the churchyard—I walked then as far as Mr. Lookett's shop; the female prisoner went in and sat down at the counter—the male prisoner walked up and down outside, and occasionally peeped in at the window—I watched for about ten minutes; the female prisoner came out, passed the male prisoner without speaking, and went on to Cheapside, he following her, and I following him, having first communicated with the young woman in the shop—they went into a public house in Aldersgate together—I and Brett went in, and they immediately left without having anything—I followed them up Goswell-street, where I said to the female, "I belong to the police, you have been in a lace and ribbon shop in St. Paul's-churchyard this evening"; she said, "No, I have not, Sir"—I said, "I know you have, and if you deny it, I suspect you have stolen something"—I took her into custody, and put

her into a cab—Brett took the male prisoner and put him into the same cab—while he was doing that, I saw the female put her hand to the right side of her dress; I laid hold of her hand and said, "What have you got?" she said, "This", and pulled out this roll of ribbon—I took it from her, and desired the cabman to drive to the police station in Fleet-street—she said, "No, do not; think of the disgrace; my husband knows nothing about it, he did not know that I had it"—they were taken to the station.

FREDERICK TURNER . Q. When I came out of the public house, did not I go into the next public house? A. Yes; you had something in a spouted pot before you there.

JAMES BRETT (City policeman, 13). I was with Haydon; I took the male prisoner and put him into the cab—I searched him in the cab, and found in his hat this roll of black ribbon, and in his pockets nine other pieces of ribbon, and two pairs of new cotton stockings—at the station I found 3s. 9d. and a knife on him—there were three small pieces of ribbon in paper which appeared to be purchases, the marks were all removed from them, and I have not found out the owners.

FREDERICK TURNER'S DEFENCE . The property found on me is my own, I bought it; I met my wife in Water-lane, leading to Ludgate-hill; she said that she was going to buy a piece of ribbon; she went in, came out, and said that she could not get a piece to suit; she went into another shop, I turned my back and afterwards looked into the shop, and found that she was gone; I walked on, met a female friend, stopped a few minutes, went on again, and overtook my wife by the Post-office; we walked together, but I knew nothing of the ribbon she had; we went to a public house, four gentlemen came in, the landlord seemed too independent to serve me at the time, and I walked out, and went into another public house; when the officer took me, I said, "What I have got is my own, I bought it"; I gave 34s. for the property that was found on me.

JANE TURNER'S DEFENCE . I went in to buy a bit of brown ribbon to tie the children's hair up on Sundays, and a piece for the neck for myself; in coming out I saw a woman drop a piece of ribbon; I picked it up and put it in my pocket.

FREDERICK TURNER— GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Twelve Month .

JANE TURNER— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-845

845. JOHN HARRISON , stealing 1 watch, value 10l.; the goods of William Farrer, from the person of Mary Ann Farrer.

MR. M'ENTEER conducted the Prosecution.

MARY ANN FARRER . I am the wife of William Farrer, of No. 35, Culford-street, Kingsland. On 6th Sept. I was returning from the Crystal Palace, and between half-past 5 and 6 o'clock, was passing through Grace'. church-street, and as I passed a print shop, near Cornhill, the prisoner was passing too, and snatched my watch from my side—it was on a hook fast-ened to my dress, and a chain which was round my neck—I took hold of him by the collar, and detained him for a minute—his collar slipped from my hand—I got him by the arm; he held the watch in his hand, and said three times, "Here it is"—he threw it down at my feet and ran away—a young man ran after him, and he was taken at the corner of Cornhill, and brought back in a moment—the hook was fastened to my sash—the swivel was left on the chain.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was there a crowd? A. Yes; I

turned my head to look at the window, but did hot stop—I only saw the prisoner's face for a moment, but he was quite in front of me—the watch was under my shawl at my left side.

ROBERT TUFFELL . On 6th Sept., between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening, I was in Gracechurch-street, and saw the prisoner deliberately snatch a watch from the prosecutrix's side—he gave it a kind of a twist, and the lady cried out for help, and said, "Oh, my watch!"—he threw it down at her feet; I pursued him to Bishopgate-street, and handed him over to a policeman—I am positive that it was the prisoner.

Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the crowd? A. No—I was about two yards from the lady who was on the kerb, there was only the prisoner between us—I am cellarman at a wine merchant's at St. Mary Axe—I never lost sight of the prisoner.

CHARLES OLIVER I was in Gracechurch-street on 6th Sept, about C o'clock, and saw the prisoner come from the crowd and run towards Bishopsgate—there was a cry of stop thief—he was stopped by Tuffell, and the lady gave him in charge with this watch (produced).

MARY ANN FARRER , jun. I am a daughter of the prosecutrix, and was with her—there was a great crowd, we did not stay, but merely passed through—I saw the prisoner, but did not see him snatch the watch, but I picked it up and gave it to my mamma.

GUILTY Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-846

846. JOHN RIDER and MICHAEL CRAWLEY , stealing 1 watch value 3l.; the goods of Ebenezer Payne, from his person. 2nd Charge, charging Ryder with receiving.

EBENEZER PAYNE . I live at No. 42, Lissongrove. On Tuesday afternoon, 28th Aug., I went from the Tower-stairs in a small boat, to a sterner—I missed my watch, which I bad looked at going down the stairs—it was shown to me in the evening by the superintendent of police.

WILLIAM SAVAGE (policeman, H 212). On 28th Aug., about 3 o'clock, I was on Tower-hill, and saw the prisoners coming away from the Tower-stairs—I had known them before—I saw Crawley pass this watch (produced) to Rider, who put it in his pocket—I could see that it was a watch—they walked over Tower-hill, and I followed them about 100 yards—I took hold of Rider, and asked him to give me the watch which he had in his pocket—he took it out, and was going to throw it away, but I took it from him; while I was struggling with him, Crawley got away, and was taken by another constable on the Friday following—I knew him well by haying him in custody, and am sure he is the boy—I first saw them forty or fifty yank from the stairs—I did not see Rider run at all.

Rider. Q. Did not you see me coming from Ratcliff-highway? A. No—you had a coat over your arm.

COURT. Q. Did he say anything when you asked him for the watch? A. He said that he picked it up—he could not have picked it up.

EBENEZER PAYNE re-examined. This is my watch—it was in my waist-coat pocket, attached by a black ribbon round my neck, which passed through the ring—the ribbon was not broken, but there was nothing left on it.

(The prisoners statements before the Magistrate were here read at follows: Crawley says, "I know nothing of the watch."—Rider says, "As I ran across Tower-hill a man dropped the watch, and I picked it up.")

Rider's Defence. I never saw this boy before; I saw this watch lying

down, and picked it up; a man in private clothes asked me what I had, I told him "Nothing", not knowing that he was a policeman; I afterwards gave him the watch.

RIDER— GUILTY of Receiving. ** Aged 21.— Four Years' Penal Servitude .

CRAWLEY— GUILTY of Stealing. * Aged 14.— Confined Two Years .

NEW COURT.—Monday, September 17th, 1855.


Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Fifth jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-847

847. HUGH JOSEPH SMITH was indicted for embezzlement. (See also page 435.)

MR. PEARCE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN MOSSOP . I am a stock broker, carrying on business at Pinner's hall, Old Broad-street; in the course of last year I had several business transactions with Mr. Jessupp. On 16th May, I paid the prisoner three sums of money, 185l., 259l. 7s. 6d., and 183l. 13s. 6d., making in all 628l. 1s.—this paper (looking at it), is in his handwriting—when I received this paper I had paid him 185l., and on receiving it I paid him a further sum of 259l. 7s. 6d—I had received of Mr. Thomas Dickenson, an I 0 U of the prisoner's for 90l., which I paid him—here is the prisoner's writing; cheque 139l. 7s. 6d., notes 95l., gold 25l.—I paid him 120l. in money, in his character as clerk to the prosecutor.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. What do you mean by money? A. I mean either notes, or gold, or silver—from the paper I conclude I paid him 25l. in gold—the body of this paper is in the prisoner's writing—the 259l. on the back is in part payment of this account—the I O U was included in the 185l.—it was an I O U for 90l—Smith, for Jessupp and Dickinson, handed it to me, owing me some money—there were other cheques in the 185l.—I had had trifling dealings with the prisoner on his own account—I never had any account open with him—they were so small they are not worth talking about—I cannot tell when they commenced—it was while he was in the service of Mr. Jessupp—they were small private transactions—I did not buy shares of him—once or twice we bought one or two thousand consols jointly—we shared the profits—I do not know when; it was done at the moment; I made no entry—it is not my practice, as a broker, to sell shares and not make an entry, but this was not a a broker, it was a private transaction—I did not tell Mr. Jessupp—I did not endeavour to prevent Mr. Jessupp knowing it—there was no written account in my ledger—the only sum I appear to have received from Smith is 11l. 5s., that is in my cash book—I could not possibly say whether there were as many as a dozen transactions—I do not remember whether there was a balance due to the prisoner, I made no entry of any of the transactions—I knew the prisoner was acting for Mr. Jessupp—I have all my books here—I had no particular reason why I did not make an entry of these private transactions—it is not a customary thing for me to deal and share profit with persons—I do not know why I did it for the prisoner—I paid the prisoner on that dav on behalf of Mr. Jessupp, the whole of these sums, 185l., 259l. 7s. 6d., and 183l. 13s. 6d.—these are all entered in my book—I swear

that no part was paid to the prisoner on the account that I had with him—the 185l. was paid in a later part of the day, I suppose—the prisoner came again the same day and received 183l. 13s. 6d—it was paid that day, I have the entry in my book.

MR. PEARCE. Q. With regard to these private transactions, was it optional with you to pay the prisoner? A. Yes; those consols were standing in my own name—I was in honour bound to pay the prisoner a part, bat it was not any business transaction—I purchased these consols through Mr. Jessupp, or a stock broker, into my own name—the whole of the amount I paid the prisoner on 16th May, I paid him on behalf of the prosecutor—I believe there was no amount due from the prisoner to me that day—I might have lent him 1l., or he me—all the "Crystals" on this bill are on behalf of Mr. Jessupp, not with the prisoner on his own account.

JURY. Q. What other transaction had you with the prisoner beside these consols? A. I believe there were one or two Crystal Palace shares, but they were very small—I believe I never owed him 10l., or he me—I feel quite sure that there was nothing between me and the prisoner that at all affected this matter in the least degree.

LEVERTON JESSUPP . I am a stock broker in Token House-yard In May last year I was at Bank Chambers—on 1 6th May the prisoner was in my employ—on his receiving money on my behalf, it was his duty to bring it to me daily—on 16th May, I received several sums which the prisoner had collected for me—amongst others I had four sums as having been received from Mr. Mossop; 139l. 7s. 6d., 95l., 128l. 17s. 9d., and 54l. 15s. 9d., making 418l. 1s.; he did not give me any particulars what they were for—there was a running account with Mr. Mossop, and that balance he would have to pay that day—T had been away some time, and had only come home a day or two at that time—if these were cheques, I gave them to the prisoner to pay into the bank; if they were notes or gold, I should pay them in myself—it is all entered as cash—I have no doubt they were not gold, from the amounts being uneven—I cannot say whether they were gold or not—I have the entry in this book in my own writing, and here is a book made up by the prisoner which is a correct copy of my own book—the prisoner only paid me that day 418l. 1s.—he left me the beginning of July.

Cross-examined. Q. There was something about some Luxembourg shares? A. Yes, I found they had not been delivered, and he left; but these were discovered after the prisoner had left—it was the universal practice for the prisoner to pay every day when I was at home—I was out a good deal about that time—he had not to buy shares on my account—there was a gentleman, Mr. Broderick, to whom he was to give any sum of money if I was away—the prisoner might buy shares for me, but he could not pay for them; Mr. Broderick could—the prisoner could not sign cheques; I never made a payment except by cheques—the prisoner was never allowed to retain money to my knowledge; he was allowed half the commission on business done on his own account—his salary and commission would be nearly 80l. at the time he left.

COURT. Q. At what time on the 16th was it he paid this? A. On that day I find two sums entered together at different times; they appear to Have been at the close of the day—I received sums as paid from Mr. Moasop after that day—I find an entry, which I believe is Mr. Broderick's writing, on 23rd May—I received no sum of the prisoner as relating to the 16th May, after that time; no I O U was paid to me.


Reference Number: t18550917-848

848. HENRY COKER , stealing 12 shirt collars, value 4s.; the goods of William Aberdeen, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Three Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-849

849. JOSEPH BRITT , stealing 1 pair of sugar tongs and 19 spoons, value 4l. 2s.; the goods of Joseph Fisher, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18. (The prisoner received a good character.)— Confined One Month .

Reference Number: t18550917-850

850. HANNAH FITZPATRICK and MARY MAHONEY , stealing 1 bag, value 1d., and 10l.; the property of William Thompson, from his person.

MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM THOMPSON . I am master of the Air schooner, lying off Wool Quay. I was in a public house in Tower-street on the night before I went before the Magistrate—it was about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I had a glass of rum—I was perfectly sober—I met with the two prisoners and another, in the public house—the other went away—the prisoners stopped there—I was just done drinking the glass of rum when I got into conversation with them, and we went to a coffee shop and had a cup of coffee apiece—I paid for it—I took my purse out of my pocket, and gave the woman half a crown to pay for my coffee—there was 10l. in that purse, and I had changed two sovereigns that day—I should say there was 11l. odd in it—after I had put the change in, I put the purse into my trowsers pocket—the prisoners were sitting at the table drinking their coffee—Fitzpatrick then left the other one, and came and sat down close by me—she had not been sitting there a minute before she pulled the purse out of my pocket, and both of them whipped out of the house—as soon as I saw they jumped up and ran out of the house, I thought there was something the matter—I put my hand to my pocket, and my purse was gone—I ran out after them, I made a jump, and should have caught them, but my foot caught and I fell—I am positive that Fitzpatrick took my purse, the other was not near enough to get it—one was at one end of the table, and the other at the other—my purse was in my left pocket—she came and sat close alongside of me—she had been sitting on the right side, and she came and sat close by my side, and took my purse—there was no one else in the room—I fell down, and that enabled them to get away—I lost sight of them after that—this happened on Thursday night—I saw them again in the police station on Saturday—I should say I was with them an hour and a half, or thereabouts.

Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Where was this public house? A. Just by Seething-lane—I had a glass of rum—I suppose they drank a pint of ale, or something—there was no tossing between us—I tossed for a quartern of gin, and won it, but I had to pay for it—I was quite sober in the public house, and also in the coffee shop—I recollect myself perfectly—a glass of rum would not make me drunk—I have been examined before—what I said was taken down, and read to me—I mean I was perfectly sober—I did not tell the policeman that I was not quite sober—ray foot caught—I should have caught them sure enough, if it had not been for that—I had only that one glass of rum that day—I did not take any beer—it is a regular teetotle ship, nothing comes on board—I was about an hour and a half with the prisoners—we had a cup of coffee, and I paid—I was at one end of the table, and they at the other—I think it was my money that attracted them

—Fitzpatrick came and oat down close to me—I did not think there was much harm in it—I did not tell anybody about it till I got out of the door—I did not say anything to the landlady about this—I went to a policeman, and he would take no heed of it—he was going to take me into custody, and he took me down into St. Mary's-lane before I got from him—I do not know what he was going to take me for, I suppose he saw me when I fell, and he thought I was drunk—I do not know whether anybody had seen this money—I had paid my score—I do not know how many persons were in the public house, perhaps there might be a good many—I do not know whether there were some rough chaps, there were none where I was—the rum was good, but a cup of coffee and the rum was still better.

MR. PAYNE. Q. Did you afterwards mention this to another policeman? A. No—I went away right down on board the ship—I never intended to look after it any more.

REBECCA PAGE . I keep a coffee shop, No. 9, Tower-hill I remember the last witness being there on 9th Aug.—the two prisoners were there with him—he took out a bag, and gave me half a crown to pay for some coffee—I gave him change—he put it into the bag—I left them sitting there—Mahoney sat on the opposite side of him, and Fitzpatrick close by him—I did not see them go away.

JURY. Q. Was he sober? A. He had been drinking, I dare say, a little, but he was not to call tipsy—he was so sober as to more his purse from the side where the prisoners were sitting to his left hand pocket.

EDWIN RICHARDSON . I am a tailor; I live at No. 53, Great Tower-street In the evening of 9th Aug. I was in Seething-lane—I saw the two prisoners from my window about 7 o'clock—they were counting and dividing money—I saw Mahoney throw a parse down the area of a house in Seething-lane, right opposite me.

Cross-examined. Q. What time was this? A. little after 7 o'clock—it was just dusk—in our business we could not see to work—I was on the second floor, looking out of the window at the passers-by—I had known the prisoners before by sight about the neighbourhood—I am quite certain they are the persons—I know I saw money pass.

JURY. Q. You have no doubt they were handling coin of some sort? A. I have no doubt about it.

ELLEN ACKMAN . I live at No. 24, Seething-lane. I found this bag down my kitchen area.

WILLIAM THOMPSON re-examined. This is my bag that I had my money in.

COURT. Q. You said that Fitzpatrick came round to you; did anything pass between her and the other prisoner? A. Not that I saw—Mahoney was at the end of the table—they both ran out of the house together.

Cross-examined. Q. Had Mahoney any opportunity of assisting the other prisoner? A. Not that I saw.

THOMAS HAYDON (City policeman, 588). I took the prisoners into custody, one on the Thursday, the other on Saturday morning—the prosecutor saw one at the station, and the other at the Mansion House.



Confined Six Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-851

851. WILLIAM MURRAY, MARY SULLIVAN, MARY HART , and MARY ANN MINES , stealing 1 coat, value 30s.; the goods of Perceval Wallis and another: to which


ALFRED GREEK (City policeman). On the afternoon of 27th Aug. I was on duty in Fleet-street—I saw the four prisoners together, walking up Ludgate-hill—I followed them—Murray, Hart, and Sullivan went into a tailor's shop—Mines remained outside—in about a quarter of an hour the others came out of the shop, and joined Mines—they went up Ludgate-hill, into a stay shop—the three females went in, and Murray remained outside—the females came out—they joined company, and went to Mr. Cunningham's—Mines remained outside—the others went in, and were there some time—they then left, and Murray, Hart, and Sullivan went into Mr. White's—Mines remained outside—they left there, and were all running down Bucklersbury—I followed them to Tower-hill, and got assistance, and took them into custody.

HENRY SHIPMAN . I am assistant to Messrs. Perceval Wallis's and Perceval Baker—I came down from dinner while the prisoners were in the shop—I heard Murray say he would leave 2s. on the coat, and they went away—I did not miss anything, our stock is too large—this coat has our mark on it—the other witness, Miles, who was in the shop is not here; be is ill with a fever, and not able to attend.

(The deposition of James Daniel Miles was read as follows: "I am assistant to Perceval Wallis and Perceval Baker, No. 288, Holborn, clothiers—yesterday afternoon, between 2 and 3 o'clock, the prisoner, Murray, came into our shop, and shortly after Hart and Mines came in—Murray said he wanted to look at some coats, which I showed him—he looked at a great number, and said the price was too high, and asked to look at some cheaper ones, and then he selected one, and said he should like a little alteration—I said I would do it—he said, "If I leave a shilling deposit I suppose that will do?" Hart said, "Oh, leave him two shillings", and he gave me 2s. as a deposit, and they were to call for the coat this night—as soon as they were gone, we suspected something wrong—the coat produced is one of those I showed them—it has our ticket upon it in Mr. Wallis's writing—I did not sell them this coat—the male prisoner liked this coat, but the price was too high—the value of it is 1l. 7s. 6d.—I am quite sure it is my employer's property. J. D. Miles.")

COURT to HENRY SHIPMAN. Q. Were you present when this coat was shown to Murray? A. Yes—the other prisoners were near enough to have taken the coat without his knowing it—they were quite close to it.


Reference Number: t18550917-852

852. WILLIAM MURRAY, MARY SULLIVAN, MARY HART , and MARY ANN MINES were again indicted for stealing 1 cap, value 1s., the goods of George Cunningham: to which




Confined Nine Months .

ALFRED GREEN . I saw all the prisoners together in Fleet-street, on 27th Aug.—they went up Ludgate-hill, and Murray, Hart, and Sullivan went into a tailor's shop; they came out and joined the other—the females went into a stay shop; they came out and joined Murray, and they went to Mr. Cunningham's shop, and all but Mines went in there—they came out, and all went down Cheapside, and went into Mr. White's—they came out; I went in and spoke to the shopman; I came out, and they were all running down Bucklersbury; I followed them—I saw Murray take his own cap off and put this green one on—they got on to Tower-hill—I got

assistance, and took them to the police station—I asked them how many caps they had about them; Murray made no reply—I searched him, and in his pocket I found this cap.

JOSEPH BEAVAN . I am in the employ of Mr. George Cunningham. On the afternoon of 27th Aug. Murray, Sullivan, and Hart came into our shop—they wanted to look at some plaid caps, which I showed them, of different patterns—Murray said he saw none that he liked—I showed him some like this one, and of this make—to the best of my belief, this is one of the caps I showed them.

MURRAY'S DEFENCE . I saved up 18s., which I gave my father to mind; I asked him on Monday morning to give it me;, he would not give me the whole, for fear I should spend it; he gave me 5s.; I was going to Well-street to a clothier's and in going along I saw these girls; they asked me where I was going; I said where I could get a coat; they took me to the is gentleman's shop, and I left 2s. on a coat; we left, and when we got to the cap shop they said, "There are some nice caps"; I went in to ask the price, and I left, and when I got to Thames-street, one of the females gave me this cap, and I put it on my head.

MURRAY— GUILTY .* Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-853

853. JOHN DEAR , stealing 2 vases, and other goods, value 2l. 5s.; the goods of Robert Feast, his master: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 45— Confined Twelve Month .

OLD COURT.—Tuesday, September 18th, 1855.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-854

854. ROBERT RUSSELL , feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 3l., with intent to defraud to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.—Strongly recommended to mercy.— Confined Four Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-855

855. HENRY COE COAPE (indicted with James Ewesby King, not in custody) for unlawfully obtaining 4,000l., of Henry Porter Smith by false pretences. Other COUNTS, for conspiracy.

MESSRS. BODKIN and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY PORTER SMITH . I am not in any profession, and live upon my property at East Sheen, in the county of Surrey. In June, 1854, I attended at No. 11, Waterloo-place for the purpose of making an advance of money—Mr. Kirby acted as my agent in the matter—I believe he is a conveyancer—on that occasion I saw Mr. Coape and Mr. King at Mr. Kirby's office—No. 11, Waterloo-place is Mr. Kirby's office, it is the office of the Albert Assurance Company—on that occasion Coape and King executed a deed—after the execution of certain deeds, I paid over 4,000l. to Mr. King by direction of Mr. Coape—there was conversation, but no fact strikes me particularly—Mr. King was talking, Mr. Coape was talking, but nothing that I am aware of that bears upon this question—I paid over the money upon Mr. Kirby's advice, ho acted entirely—I was relying entirely upon Mr.

Kirby being satisfied in the transaction—there was conversation between Mr. Coape, Mr. King, and Mr. Kirby—I was induced to pay over this money to Mr. King by the direction of Mr. Coape, from statements made to me through Mr. Kirby of Mr. Coape's property.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. I suppose you are not at all connected with the Albert? A. Not in any manner—I did not employ any solicitor, I employed Mr. Kirby solely—I have known him nearly thirty yean—I looked to him to see that I had a good security—I looked to him to give me a good security, to do all the matters that a solicitor would have done on my behalf, to give me a good security—he was not to receive anything for it from me—no doubt he would get what he could out of the party, there was no agreement with me as to that—I left it to him to get what he could, I never heard what he did get—8,000l. was advanced altogether, 4,000l. by me, and 4,000l. by Sir John Wilson—I have said to Mr. Kirby that it was a most unfortunate case, but beyond an expression of that kind I do not think I have blamed him—I have not told him that I should look to him in any way—I do not think I have blamed him to himself, but I certainly blamed him in my own mind, if I am to lose money in this manner—I do not think I have said so to him—I do not know whether there is any dividend, I have inquired—I have been making the best inquiry I could, but the accounts are so contradictory—I have not received anything—I really have exerted myself to make inquiries, but I got such contradictory statements—some say I shall not get any thing, and others that I shall get some small dividend or other—I had no means of getting at the value of the property conveyed, except from the schedule—personally I have taken no means whatever—through Mr. Kirby I have taken the best means that he could suggest to carry out, but I, personally, have taken no means whatever—I have had no power of getting information, I have inquired in various quarters.

JOHN BRETT . I am clerk to Mr. Kirby, his office is at the Albert Insurance Office, Waterloo-place. He is a conveyancer—I am the subscribing witness to this deed—the parties to it are James Ewesby King of the first part, Henry Coe Coape of the second part, Henry Porter Smith of the third part, and George Goldsmith Kirby of the fourth part—it is dated 3rd June, 1854—(The deed was put in and read in part; it recited the will of Henry Coape, Esq., the father of the defendant, by which it appeared that certain lands therein named were bequeathed to the defendant with other property, which lands were assigned to Mr. Smith, as security for the advance in question).

Q. What part, if any, of that deed was read to the parties before it was executed? A. To the best of my recollection, I read nearly the whole of it, if not quite—I do not remember reading the part describing the parcels of property intended to be conveyed, as distinct from any other, but to the best of my belief I did read it; I am nearly certain that I did so—I made a memorandum on the draft of having read and explained the deed, and those parts that I did not read at length, I explained—I have got the draft with me (produced)—I went through the deed, and either read every clause, or explained the clause as I came to it; for instance, the probability is that I stated at first that it recited the father's will—I think it must have been in that way, without reading through the whole of the will-besides Mr. Coape, Mr. King, Mr. Kirby, Mr. Rogers the solicitor, was present on that occasion—he was solicitor for Mr. Coape—he represented Mr. Coape—I think nobody else was present at the reading of the deed—Mr. Smith and Sir John Wilson came in before the completion—Mr. Rogers was present as solicitor for the two parties, Mr. King and Mr.

Coape—I do not think any body else was present—Mr. Smith and Sir John Wilson were in the room at the time of completing it, but I think not during the reading of the deed; it occupied, I should think, nearly two hours altogether—a warrant of attorney was also executed at the same time—this is it (produced)—it was executed by Mr. Coape and Mr. King—Mr. Rogers acted as the solicitor for Mr. Coape, in the execution of that warrant of attorney—there was also a statutory declaration made by Mr. Coape—the filling in of the amount of rents is in my writing, and the residence of Mr. Coape at the commencement—the other parts of the writing, I think, was done by the stationer's clerk—I did not fill in the names—in the sentence, "And I further declare that each of the hereditaments are of the annual value of 1,300l", the words 1,300 are in my writing, and also the 1,700 as the annual value of the life estates—I drew the declaration, leaving the sums blank, for the purpose of obtaining them—I cannot say whether I handed it to Mr. Rogers to get the information, or whether I obtained it from Mr. Coape direct—it was either from Mr. Rogers or Mr. Coape—I obtained the information in the room during that two hours' interview, at the time of completion—it was declared at the time—the declaration was handed by me to the parties to read over and give the information, and no doubt it was read over.

COURT. Q. Did you hand it to Mr. Rogers or to the defendant? A. I cannot recollect at this distance of time the precise way in which it was done—I either handed it to Mr. Rogers or to Mr. Coape.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Can you say whether it was read, no matter by whom, at that meeting? A. It was read certainly—I do not remember seeing it signed by Mr. Coape after it was read; I have no doubt I did, but I do not remember it distinctly; there is no subscribing witness to it—after this proceeding had been gone through, I saw 8,000l. paid; 4,000l. by Mr. Smith, and 4,000l. by Sir John Wilson—the money was paid to Mr. King; he was the principal, Mr. Coape was the surety—it recites in the deed that it was paid to King with the assent of Coape—Mr. Coape was present when King took the money.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLARTHNE. Q. Can you, upon refreshing your memory, tell me whether you read the whole of that deed or not? A. I can only speak from recollection, and from the time the business took in completing; I believe I read very nearly the whole of it—I think the parties got more tired of it than I did, for I am somewhat accustomed to it—I had two more, I think, on that same day—I believe throughout the whole transaction it was avowed to be a loan for King—I do not know what was understood by the parties, I understood it to be a loan to King—Mr. Rogers was acting as solicitor for both King and Coape—we looked upon him as the solicitor for both parties—I had known Mr. Rogers before—Mr. Kirby and Mr. Rogers have done business together, I believe a good deal—Mr. Kirby did not introduce Mr. Rogers in this matter—the business was introduced by Mr. Rogers to Mr. Kirby—Mr. Rogers was the solicitor, and he brought the matter to Mr. Kirby, as to whether he could advance such a sum—Mr. Kirby had not first advised them to go to Mr. Rogers, he had no communication with the parties—as far as I know, the initiative in this matter was taken by Mr. Rogers—he introduced it to Mr. Kirby—this deed had only come from the stationers that same morning—the draft had been settled on the previous day, I think, by Mr. Whitworth; it was engrossed the same evening—I believe at the request of the parties it was completed in haste—it was stated in the course of the negotiation, that

King required the money—I do not know that it was said he had debts of honour—Mr. Rogers, I believe, supplied Mr. Kirby with the chief part of the information for the bond—when Mr. Kirby required information, he wrote to Mr. Rogers for it—I went down to Maldon, in Essex, in May—I went to make inquiry upon the subject of the allegations contained in the deed—I went with the agent of the Albert Insurance-office, just to check the statement of the parties—the negotiation for this loan had begun in February.

Q. The names of all the farms had been given to you, and you were directed, were you not, to go down into Essex to make inquiry upon the subject? A. No, it was not precisely so—a copy of the will was obtained by us, and I was directed to go to the agent of the Assurance Company, and ask him if his knowledge permitted him to say that Mr. Coape had property to that extent—I went to make inquiries—it was not my duty to make fall inquiries upon the subject—it was my duty to ask the agent of the Company to whom I was directed, whether he knew Mr. Coape, and whether he was known to be a person of property in that neighbourhood—I was not sent to ascertain the value of these securities, it was to ascertain whether it was known that Mr. Coape was a gentleman of property there—whether it was a fiction or not whether he really had property there—I should say that Mr. Coape did not know that the inquiries were made, till afterwards; he knew, at the time he signed the deed, that I had made the inquiry—Mr. Smith had been a client of Mr. Kirby for some years—I can scarcely say for what purpose he was employed by Mr. Smith.

Q. Have you the least doubt in the world that it was your duty to make inquiries on the subject of the property, and that you grossly neglected your duty? A. No; I did what I was directed to do, and no more and no less—all my instructions were to go to the agent of the Assurance Company—Mr. Kirby directed me merely to go to the agent of the Assurance Company, and I performed the duty imposed upon me—I was not directed to go round to the farms—they were not in the immediate orbit—I was informed that they lay in various directions, and that certain parts of the river or sea would prevent my getting at them—I do not know how much Mr. Kirby got for his advice and assistance to Mr. Smith in this matter—I have heard, of course—I believe it was 200l.—I did not receive the money, but I have heard in the office that it was 200 guineas in each case—that would be 400 guineas—I do not know whether Mr. Rogers got the same—I do not know what he got—various inquiries were made at the Tithe Commutation Office, and a copy of the will was bespoke at Doctors' Commons, and the stamps,' I think, you will find amount to 40l.—Mr. Kirby paid for the stamps—we made all the inquiries that we thought necessary.

MR. BODKIN. Q. When was it you went down to Maldon? A. On 11th May, 1854—I do not know whether that was at a period of the transaction when a gentleman named Gregory was making an application, or after that had ceased—the Albert Office have an agent at Maldon—I went down, and took an extract of the will with me—I went to make inquiry whether there was such a person as Mr. Coape there, and whether he was reputed to be a person of property—I found that to be so—this was not a transaction by the Insurance Company.

PHILIP DRAKE I am a notary public, my offices are at the Royal Exchange. On 3rd June, last year, I attended at Waterloo-place, where this declaration was made before me, by a gentleman calling himself Coape—I. do not recognise the defendant—(This was a declaration by the defendant,

that he was entitled to the property assigned by the deed, and that the foe simple was of the annual value of 1,300l., and was encumbered to the extent of 6,000l., and 10,000l.; and the leasehold was of the annual value of 600l., and mortgaged to the extent of 2,500l.)

COURT. Q. Are you frequently called in to do this sort of thing? A. Not very frequently—I do not suppose I have had a score of cases in the course of my practice, which is fifty-five years, and those in very recent times—the last was about a year and a quarter ago—all of them have been in the course of the last five or six years—it is a new practice—I did not read it over to him, that was no part of my duty—all 1 know is, that the declaration was made to me in the usual way—I know nothing beyond that—all I look to is, that the party signs it in my presence, that it is hit proper name and handwriting, and he believes the contents of the declaration to be true—I did not hear it read to him.

GEORGE GOLDSMITH KIRBY . I am managing director of the Albert Insurance Company, at No. 11, Waterloo-place. I am also a conveyancer—that office was established in 1838—I have been connected with it during the whole of that time—there are nine directors including myself—I know Mr. Rogers, a solicitor—in Feb. 1854, an application was made to mo by Mr. Rogers, with respect to a loan of from 3,000l. to 5,000l., as stated in this memorandum—I received this paper from Mr. Rogers, or Mr. Allen—Mr. Allen is connected with Mr. Rogers in procuring loans—in consequence of what was stated to me in reference to this loan, I procured an official extract from the will of the late Mr. Coape, the defendant's father—I know Mr. King—I saw him some three or four times during the negotiation for this loan—I had several letters from Mr. King to Mr. Rogers handed to me, and I have had one at least from Mr. King myself, if not more—Mr. King wrote to Mr. Rogers a letter that was handed to me, and one letter I had direct from Mr. King—I arranged with Mr. Rogers for the advance of 8,000l.; 4,000l. by Mr. Smith, and 4,000l. by Sir John Wilson—I saw Mr. Coape, on passing by him in my own office, ten days before this business was completed, but did not speak to him; and then on the day of its completion, he was in my clerk's office with Mr. King and Mr. Rogers, but I had no conversation with him on that day—the Albert Company advanced 750l. upon that day, or the day before, nominally for a month, upon the understanding that it was to be repaid upon the completion of the loan—it was advanced to Mr. Coape and Mr. King, upon their joint warrant of attorney—it was on 24th May—it was repaid to the Society when the loan was completed, on 3rd June—Mr. King made some hesitation about paying it on that day, and said as it was lent for a month, and that month was not up, it might as well be paid at the end of the month—I said it was agreed to be paid when the 8,000l. was advanced, and Mr. Coape recommended him to pay it then, and he did so—the whole 8,000l. was handed over to Mr. King, and out of that he paid the Company's secretary 750l.

COURT. Q. Do you mean that you went through the form of paying the whole sum, and then taking back the 750l.? A. Yes—my office is two stories above the offices of the Company.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Had the Company anything to do with this transaction more than the advancing of the 750l.? A. Nothing whatever—the Company had nothing to do with the 8,000l—I directed an inquiry to be made with respect to the property that was proposed as security for the advance—(looking at a letter) I believe this to be in the hand writing of Mr. Coape—this letter was handed to me by Mr. Rogers, I think—that was before I

had expressed myself satisfied with the security proposed—this was given in answer, as it were, to some inquiries about it—(looking at several letters) this letter, beginning "My dear Coape", I understand to be Mr. Teesdale's writing—he is a solicitor—the others are Mr. King's writing—all of these letters reached me through Mr. Rogers—there seems to be one here from Mr. King to myself—that I received from Mr. King, the others I received from Mr. Rogers—I was present when this matter was completed and the money paid—it was on 3rd June, last year—I do not think I can tell what parts of the deed were read before it was executed—I was in and out of the room while the matter was being settled, but I was there when it was actually completed, the deed signed, and the money paid—I do not think I was present when the blanks in the statutory declaration were filled up, because I remember being asked a question about the amount filled in, and as to the rents of the leasehold property, afterwards—my clerk came to me, and said that the sum had been put in—that was before the business was over, before the cheques were signed, or the money paid—my clerk came to me when I went into the room, and said the amount of rents Mr. Coape had put in was 600l. on the leasehold property, instead of 900l., as had been represented, and Mr. Coape came up to me, and said, "Yes, it was a larger amount, 900l. before; but I sold some of the leases, and the mortgage debt was reduced by the payment of the purchase money, to 2,400l".; not reduced to the extent of 2,400l., but reduced down to 2,400l.—Mr. Coape personalty gave me that explanation of his leasehold property; that is the Pamlico property—he gave me no explanation whatever with respect to the freehold property—he made one observation as to his freehold property, that there was much more of it than I had been able to find out—that was said at the same time, at the time of the meeting—he said that his property was larger than I had been able to find out, larger than I had been able to discover—I had not made out satisfactorily the whole 1,100 acres at one time—I think I made some observation of that kind to him, and he said there was a good deal more than I had been able to find out—I had sent my clerk down into the neighbourhood of Maldon to make inquiries as to the acreage of the property generally, and the value of the rents—I furnished him with the extract from Mr. Coape's father's will for that purpose—I suggested that he should apply to Mr. Bridges, of Maldon, to whom he told me he went—Mr. Bridges happened to be one of the agents of the Albert Life Office—we made a great number of searches at the Tithe Commutation Office to ascertain the parcels, and extent of the property of Mr. Coape, and we found Bridgemarsh, and Plumes, and Westwicks mentioned, or rather the parishes in which they were stated to be in, and the number of acres—I did not find there were such names, but the acreage Mr. King gave agreed with the acreage we found at the Tithe Commutation Office in those parishes—the acreage would not appear in the Tithe Commutation Office, whether the property was sold or not—they were under Mr. Coape's name—I did not make any such inquiry as would have enabled me to ascertain whether any part of this land had been sold—it never occurred to us that the property could have been sold.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. The deed recites that some of it had been mortgaged? A. Mortgaged to the extent of 6,000l. and 10,000l.—it was perfectly clear that Mr. Coape had been dealing with the property for the purpose of raising money—that was apparent on the particulars given to me, and on the face of the deed—I was acting as a conveyancer in this matter, in the same way in conveyancing business as a solicitor acts—

the business of a conveyancer is to investigate titles, and to prepare deeds—I think it is a conveyancer's business to send clerks into the country to make inquiry.

Q. Was there anything on earth to prevent you or your clerk inquiring of the tenants of these farms who was the landlord? A. Not unless the restriction that we were not to make the matter known to Mr. Teesdale, would have precluded us from doing it.

COURT. Q. Was there a restriction that you were not to make the matter known to Mr. Teesdale? A. Yes—that was made to me by Mr. Rogers, that Mr. Coape objected to my doing so.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Then you knew that Mr. Teesdale was the private solicitor of Mr. Coape? A. Yes—I believe Messrs Teesdale's to be a highly respectable firm.

Q. Did you make any inquiry of them before you advised your clients to advance 8,000l.? A. On the morning of the settlement I sent to ascertain whether the letter that had been produced to me was written by them—I did not make any inquiry of them respecting the title to the property upon which I was advising my clients to advance the 8,000l.—I was restricted from that—I made no inquiry except whether the letter was in the handwriting of Mr. Teesdale—in loan cases there are generally great objections to being allowed to make inquiries of the tenants or on the premises; it is a common thing to have that restriction imposed—that was the reason I did not make inquiry of Mr. Teesdale—I think if I had gone down to Maldon myself, I might have made some inquiry of the tenants, but my clerk thought he had got sufficient information—he told me he had gone to two persons, one of whom he was referred to by the person of whom I had directed him to make inquiry; they, professed to know the property, to be aware of the acreage and the rental of the property at Maldon, and I was satisfied—they were apparently disinterested parties—hearing that there is a mortgage upon a portion of property, would certainly make one desirous of knowing to what extent it was entangled, and I wrote a letter to Mr. Rogers stating that I could not dispense with inquiry of the first mortgagee—I did not do so, but in lieu of permitting me to make that inquiry, Mr. Rogers furnished me with the letter written by Mr. Teesdale to Mr. Coape, for the purpose of showing that there were no other incumbrances than those that he stated, namely 10,000l. and 6,000l.—I did not make inquiries of the first mortgagee; they brought me that letter to prevent my doing so—that did prevent me—they stated that those inquiries could not be made without Mr. Teesdale being made acquainted with the transaction—of course I now wish that I had made inquiry of the teuants of these farms, if I had, I have no doubt I should have learnt the full particulars.

Q. So that Mr. Smith has lost this money through your negligence? A. Rather through the restriction, not being permitted to make inquiry.

COURT. Q. That very restriction ought to have excited the suspicion of any professional man, one would have thought? A. Then they produced that letter to show----

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do you not know that these forms upon which you pretend to have advanced the money, were sold by public auction in Essex? A. I know it now—I do not know where they were sold; I forget; I know it was by public auction—I do not know whether it was in the county—I seriously mean that I advised my client, Mr. Smith, to advance this sum of money. and never ascertained the fact that the

property had been sold by public auction—the Albert Office received back the 750l. out of the money—I had 400 guineas—I have nothing to do with what Mr. Rogers had—the office derived no profit from that 750l—it was advanced for a month—they would not have lost that 750l. if the loan had not been completed—there was property then, and the Company had a warrant of attorney—I had the 400 guineas for the investigation, and preparing the securities in both cases—the office has lately presented me with a testimonial of 1,000l.—I did not make out any bill of costs; the sum was agreed upon—I do not of my own knowledge know that Mr. Rogers had 400l.; I have no doubt whatever that he had—I think Mr. King is a son of the late Admiral King—I believe Mr. Rogers is a solicitor; I have not the slightest doubt of it—I think he is; I feel quite sure of it—his name is in the Law list, therefore I ought perhaps to say he is—he has made several applications to me—we do not work together—it is not a joint affair—we do not share the people—we did not divide Mr. Smith between us, nor Mr. Cope—400 guineas was my charge—Mr. Rogers had 400l. I rather think—Mr. Rogers introduces persons wanting money—he applies to me to borrow money on behalf of persons by whom he is employed—there is very rarely a bill of costs in annuity transactions—I did not tell Mr. Smith or Sir John Wilson that I had got 400 guineas; I have not been asked—it has not yet occurred to me to return it—the statutory declaration was not for the purpose of catching them by the criminal law, in the event of matters turning out wrong—the great object was to test the accuracy of their statements—that was the only value of it.

Q. And to force a settlement from their relations by a threat of criminal proceedings? A. I never did so yet—I never proposed to anybody that the matter could be settled by this gentleman's relations paying the money—it has been talked of by two or three persons to me—several persons have asked me whether it would be settled—Mr. Semple asked me—he is one of the parties who lent Mr. Coape money before—I do not think Mr. Semple had taken a declaration, he did not tell me so—I do not think that Mr. Smith has spoken about it—Mr. Smith and I have not talked over this matter with a view to a settlement—I have never received any instructions at all from Mr. Smith—I have said to Mr. Smith that I should be very glad if it was settled—that was not a suggestion, I do not know what it was—I should have been very glad to get rid of the business—I do not know any other way of getting rid of it than by repurchasing the annuities—the annuities are repurchasable—that would have got the money back—I should have been pleased to have got rid of the thing—I have no interest, except in taking care of Mr. Smith—I have not said to Mr. Smith, "Why, Coape arranged with Semple, and we shall get the money too"—I do not think I have said anything to that effect—I will swear I have not said it—I think I have not said anything to that effect—I told Mr. Smith, of course, of Mr. Semple having had his money, and I hoped they would get him his, or something of that sort; that they would repay him; that they would repurchase the annuity—that must have been after the indictment, because the indictment went on directly it was known—I should have allowed the annuities to be repurchased after the indictment was found, if it could have been done with propriety, safely—the same sort of thing has not gone on between me and Sir John Wilson—I have not seen much of Sir John, he has been away mostly—I was acting both for him and Mr. Smith in this transaction—it was in respect of both the transactions that the costs were

paid—I remember Mr. Coape going through the Insolvent Court—I think I was subpoenaed there to produce this deed—I did not attend, my clerk did—I think I sent him with the deed—I know I did.

MR. BODKIN. Q. What answer was brought by your clerk to the inquiries you directed him to make? A. He brought me back word that the rental of Plumes, Westwicks, and Bridgemarsh farms, and some other property, Meek borough and another, I think, was somewhat more than half the rental of that which it had been first represented the fee simple property amounted to—I have since ascertained that those lands were sold by public auction ten years before—in the course of the whole proceedings neither Mr. Coape or Mr. King intimated anything to me with respect to that sale—inquiries were made to ascertain whether there were such lands, and whether Mr. Coape inherited them from his father—my clerk was to ascertain the value of the property, not the title, because that was assumed under the will—it never occurred to me that Mr. Coape had not these lands—I received this letter of Mr. Teesdale's about 21st March, within a day or two of its date—it was on the morning of 3rd June that I sent to ascertain whether it was a genuine letter of Mr. Teesdale's.

COURT. Q. Did you give instructions to the solicitor for the prosecution in this case? A. Yes—I consider that I am the prosecutor—it was by Mr. Smith's direction—I mean that Mr. Smith originated it, and told me to employ a solicitor—immediately upon hearing of this, he said he was to be prosecuted—I am acting entirely by his instructions—I did not suggest the prosecution to him—the 750l. was lent by the Society at 5l. per cent interest—their inducement to advance it was an insurance for three months on the life of Mr. King, for the amount of the loan, 750l.—the security given was a warrant of attorney by Mr. King and Mr. Coape—besides that, there was an understanding that the 750l. was to be repaid out of the 8,000l.—I do not suppose it would appear in the Society's books that the 750l. was to be paid out of the 8,000l.—it would be entered as a loan for a month—I did not negotiate this loan without letting the Directors know what the transaction was, they would know it—I should certainly state it—I do not suppose it would be on the minutes—they were entitled to know the whole circumstances of the transaction, and where the money was to come back from, and they would know—I do not think it would appear in the minute book, or any document—it was merely a private arrangement with the parties, and communicated to the Board—I swear that I communicated it, upon the occasion of the application—I swear that I communicated to the Board that I was about to negotiate a loan of 8,000l. for these person s, and to lend 750l. upon a warrant of attorney, to be repaid upon the advance of the 8,000l.—I swear that I made that communication upon the occasion of the application for the loan—I do not think it would be all written down—what would be written down would only be "Application for a loan of 750l. for a month, with an insurance", and then my explanation would be that it was for Mr. Coape and Mr. King, for whom I was raising the 8,000l.—that was my explanation—I swear that—certainly, I should not have done so otherwise.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How long have you been what you call a conveyancer? A. About twenty-five years—I was not in any business before that.

ALFRED ROGERS . I am a solicitor; my chambers are at No. 28, Regent-street, Waterloo-place. In the early part of 1854, I was applied to by Mr. King, with respect to a loan; he was alone, I never saw Mr. Coape on the subject.

Q. For whom did King represent that this loan was required? (Mr. BALLANTINE. objected to this question being asked, on the ground that there was no evidence of a combination together for the illegal purpose mentioned in the indictment. MR. BODKIN contended, that there was sufficient primafacie evidence to allow this to be given. The COURT considered that the evidence could not be given at present.)

Q. Look at these two papers (produced.) and tell me if you know whose writing they are in? A. One is my writing, and the other is that of Mr. Allen—this one in my writing is a copy of the other; I mean it is a copy of Mr. Allen's instructions on the subject.

Q. Have you ever received from Mr. Coape any of the representations in those papers, or either of them? A. I never saw him before the matter was settled—what I did was from the communications of Allen.

CHARLES ALLEN . I carry on the business of a money agent, at No. 28A, Regent-street. I procure loans on security, negotiate loans—I know Mr. Rogers, the solicitor—I acted with him in the endeavour to raise a loan of 8,000l.—I was employed in the first onset by Mr. Gregory; that went off, and I was then employed by Mr. King—I saw Mr. Coape on the transaction, but, to the best of my recollection, only once; he came to give me further information than that furnished by Mr. King—I had received information from Mr. King, and Mr. Coape came to give me further information—both these papers (produced), are in Mr. Rogers's writing; no, I think not, excuse me, only one is in Mr. Rogers's writing; this one—I supplied Mr. Rogers with the information contained in these papers—I received it from Mr. Coape—I have a rough memorandum book here; I received the particulars of the security from Mr. King, and I opened this book and entered them in it—I afterwards conversed with Mr. Coape on the subject of this entry, and took further particulars from him on a rough piece of paper, a copy of which is in Mr. Rogers's writing—the rough piece of paper I have not got—I had a conversation with Mr. Coape on the subject of the information King had given me, and the information made the security much better as it appeared—to the best of my recollection I read over to Mr. Coape the entry in the book—I cannot tell you exactly what he said, but I gave him a copy of what I had taken down on paper—if you will allow me to refer, I can tell you what he said—I did not know that I should require the rough piece of paper again, and it was destroyed; this book is merely a rough book—this memorandum is a copy of the memorandum I made, and which has been destroyed—I think it was made the following morning—Mr. Coape told me that he had fee simple property, or property partly fee simple and partly a life estate, to the extent of 2,700l. a year, but to a hundred or two I cannot say—he said that part was situated at Maldon in Essex, and at a place called Goldhanger; and he informed me that he had some property likewise at Pimlico—this memorandum is in the writing of Mr. Rogers; he wrote it by my dictation, from the lost piece of paper.

COURT. Q. Did you see him write it? A. Yes; I compared it at the time—I would not swear that I compared it word for word; but he either read it over, or I did—I must first tell you that I handed him a piece of paper with the particulars in my own writing; it was very roughly written, and he copied it afresh—the best of my recollection is, that the fee simple property was about 1,500l. a year.

MR. BODKIN. Q. In the course of the conversation with Mr. Coape, were any particulars gone into? A. I did not take down the names of the farms; the information he gave me was general, without going into

particulars—what I wanted to arrive at was the exact rental and the encumbrances—I had never seen him before—I asked Mr. King for further information, and Mr. Coape came to me to give it—I was not certain that he would come, but I expected information from him—he told me that Mr. King had requested him to call on me to give me any information that I might require, to enable me to carry out the loan—I then referred to this book, and repeated what I had got down here, that the Essex property was about 2,700l. a year, and that there was a farm at Hendon which I have no amount to—the first entry is the date his father died, 1844—then, "Property in Essex, about 2,700l. a year; farm at Hendon, blank; 10,000l. in the 3l. per cents.; the life estates are mortgaged to the extent of 10,000l. Mr. Coape, aged 42'—when I had read that over to him, he gave me fresh particulars; I do not know exactly what he said, all I know is that from what he said I mentioned to Mr. Rogers that the security was much better than I thought it before—he represented that the property was rather more, but I cannot tell what he represented without referring to Mr. Rogers's paper—that is, I believe, an exact copy of the paper which I have lost—I cannot positively swear whether I read it over, or whether it is word for word—(The COURT decided that the witness could not look at the paper)—I cannot tell you what passed between me and Mr. Coape—I will swear that he said that the fee simple property was more than 1,000l. a year, but I will not swear to a hundred or two—there are no other entries in this book on this subject with respect to this loan—No. 40, St. James's-street, was where Mr. King lived at that time—I do not recollect saying, "Mr. Coape, I have no recollection of these matters"—1 do not think I have ever seen Mr. Coape in the company of King—I received 200l. for my assistance in this matter, from Mr. Rogers; it was understood that I was to have it—whether I was applied to first or second I cannot say, but I had had previous transactions with Mr. Gregory.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Who did apply to you? A. Mr. Gregory; he is a gentleman as far as I know—he was at one time member for Derby—he may bet on the turf, I have heard so—I have a good many clients of that kind—I may say that he introduced King to me, but not personally—King called on behalf of Mr. Gregory, and if you call that introducing, he did so—I sometimes take minutes down in the book, and sometimes I do not—there is no firm—this book is the same as using a piece of rough paper—I also keep a diary, it is here—I have down in it when King called, or at all events when Mr. Coape called—I was content with 200l.—that was all I got—it was two-and-a-half per cent.—I got nothing from King—I have not had anything from him since this transaction, on my oath—I have not seen him since, and do not know where he is—I was led to believe by King that this loan was for him, as well as by Coape—it was my persuasion that Coape had no interest whatever, and did not receive a farthing.

(MR. BODKIN proposed to ash Mr. Rogers what passed between him and King with respect to this loan, as the money was to be raised on the defendant's property, who had been to Mr. Allen and made a communication to him to make him think favourably of the property. The COURT considered that it was only proved at present that the defendant attended at the request of King to give further information, and that sufficient ground was not laid to make the defendant responsible for everything King said, there being as yet no proof of any combination in any illegal act, so as to make the act of one the act of the other.)

WILLIAM HENRY HESTER I produce the proceedings of the Court of Insolvent Debtors, in the case of Henry Coe Coape, from the place of deposit where originals are kept.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you the attesting witness here? A. No, I merely bring it from the Court.

HENBY RICHARD SILVESTER I am an officer of the Insolvent Court I acted for the defendant—the signature to this schedule is his writing—I am unable to state what it does not contain—a clerk of mine prepared it—I can point out parts where descriptions of the property would be given—the description of real and personal property runs over four or five sides—the real property is described as situated in the parish of Goldhanger—the annual rental of the whole is 1,863l. 9s.—the total mortgage is 16,000l.—the estimate of the property to which he confesses himself entitled is 29,603l. 11s.—1,863l. was supposed to be his life interest in the properly, not over and above, but including the 16,000l. which had been borrowed—at another part of the schedule, here is", Amount of cash advanced by Mr. Smith on 4th June, through his agent, Mr. Kirby, etc., 4,000l., and commision 200l. "

Q. There are bills stated to be out, drawn by King and accepted by Coape, to the extent of 17,320l.? A. They are very numerous, and the statement opposite to them is that they were received by King—(The COURT considered that this evidence did not carry the case further, but rather showed a combinatian for a legal purpose, not for an illegal one.)

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Mr. Coape was examined before the Insolvent Court? A. Yes—his hearing lasted four days—he reiterated the statement with respect to the money having got into other hands—the matter was asked to be postponed, for the purpose of contradicting it, but the Commissioner gave credit to Mr. Coape's statement—he said that he believed he had been the victim, and discharged him at once—it was Mr. Commissioner Phillips—at the time the defendant swore to this schedule, he estimated his property, freehold and leasehold, at 29,463l. 11s., and the incumbrances at, I think, 16,000l.—there would be the 8,000l. likewise to be deducted—that would be 24,000l., and that leaves, according to his statement, a sum of 5,000l. for the body of general creditors—that is the lowest estimate he put on it—in my inquiries to ascertain from him what he knew about his property, I found that he was unfortunately not acquainted with it—I obtained my information from the documents, and from his mother—he appeared to have very little worldly wisdom in those matters—I found him disposed to tell me all he knew, and to give me the best information he could—a meeting of creditors was called at my office to make a composition, on the assumption that there would be enough, after paying off all incumbrances, to satisfy the creditors, by an instalment of 6s. 8d. or 7s. in the pound—from beginning to end he was anxious that the whole should go to his creditors—not a single farthing of what the money lenders let slip, came into his hands—he said several times that he was duped out of his money.

MR. BODKIN. Q. The property in this mortgage, I understand you to say, he values at 16,000l.? A. I think there was more property included in that, it was a general mortgage—the 16,000l. is a life interest in the freehold property—I have no doubt the mortgage of 10,000l. was on the life estate.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do you know that Mr. King is a connection of his through marriage? A. Only from his own statement that transpired at the hearing before the Insolvent Court.

MR. BODKIN. Q. As you have spoken about the 29,000l., how much has

been paid to his creditors? A. I am not aware; there was a meeting called at my office—it is out of my province to state whether there has been any dividend paid—the Court said that it was a proper case for the provisional assignee to manage—it is too early to have a dividend paid yet.

ARTHUR LEWIS LAING . I am a solicitor, of Colchester, in Essex. I produce a deed purporting to be the conveyance of a farm called Bridgemarsh Island farm—the date is 28th April, 1846—it is between Henry Coe Coape of the first part, the said Henry Coe Coape, James Coape, George Thomas Nicholson, and John Cole Symes of the second part, James Purkiss of the third part, and Edward Daniels of the fourth part—it is a conveyance of certain lands to Mr. Purkiss—the will of the late Mr. Coape is mentioned in the course of the deed—the consideration money is 5,420l.—I know that it was sold by auction, but I was not present—the 5,000l. includes no other property but the Bridgemarsh farm.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Are you a solicitor? A. Yes—the family is very well known in Essex—the sale took place at the Auction Mart, in London—I presume that it was advertised in the usual way.

WILLIAM RAND . I am clerk to Mr. Nicholls, a surveyor, of Southall, in Essex. I produce a deed dated 19th Dec, 1845, between William Coe Coape, Esq., of the first part, Martin Nockolds of the second part, and John Good, gentleman, of the third part—it conveys the farm and estate called Plumes and Westwicks, in the county of Essex—the purchase money is 2,970l. for Westwicks, and 2s. 5l. for Plumes—they were together the sum of 3,255l., for which here is a receipt at the back.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Has that deed been proved yet? A. I am not the attesting witness.

GEORGE LANGLEY . I am clerk to Symes and Co., solicitors, of Fen-church-street. I am the attesting witness to this deed—I saw Mr. Coape execute it.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You are a clerk of Teesdale and Symes? A. Yes—I was acquainted with the affairs of Mr. Coape up to a certain time—I know generally all the property that he was possessed of when he went through the Insolvent Court—I should say that 29,000l. was a fair value to attach to it.

JOHN SHUTTLEWORTH . I am butler to Mr. Harvey Jones. I witnessed the execution of this deed by Mr. Coape.

JOHN MARMADUKE TEESDALE . I am a solicitor. I wrote this letter (looking at it) at the desire of Mr. Coape—it refers to the estates, without reference to Plumes, Westwicks, and Bridgemarsh—I only knew by hearing in my office that they had been sold—it was merely to show what the encumbrance was which is accurately stated at 16,000l.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE, Q. You were not acquainted with the transaction with King? A. No—it was entirely concealed from me—Mr. Coape has had communications with me as to what the value of the property was—I obtained a valuation of Mr. Morgan of the life estate, Mr. Coape's interest in the settled estates under his father's will—I am not aware whether Mr. Morgan is here—I likewise obtained, some years previously, from a gentleman in Essex, a valuation of the other property—those valuations were made exclusive of that property which had been alienated, exclusive of Westwicks and Plumes—(MR. BODKIN objected to this evidence in the absence of the persons who made the valuations).

Q. You have had to deal with this property for years, you have heard the valuation attached to it by the defendant, upon his oath, in the

Insolvent Court; in your opinion and judgment, is that a reasonable valuation? A. I think it is, certainly—through the sales being forced on, I have no doubt but that the actual value was not realized; as far as the life estates were concerned, most materially so—I was myself instructed to bid for a much larger amount than the property was sold for, but I did not do it, because I got it for Mr. Coape's brother at a more reasonable rate but I should have gone higher, and at a rate which would have brought the whole proceeds of the life estate to upwards of 15,000l.—they were sold for something less than 11,000l., leaving Mr. Coape's interest in two properties unsold, which I was instructed to bid 19,000l. more for—it was about 3,000l. under the market value, the whole—my firm is Symes, Teesdale, and Sandilands, in the City—even with these forced sales, and sold in the way I have told you, there will be a balance of at least 6,000l., which will go for the 8,000l. of the first mortgagee—I have calculated it—in addition to that there is a considerable property, of which the said mortgagees will have the opportunity of entering their claim for the balance—I have known Mr. Coape I suppose for the last fifteen years; he has always been an honest, upright, honourable gentleman—he married a cousin of Mr. King's, who is a relation of Lord Kingstown, and of Admiral King—King has never shown up since, and I do not know where he is.

MR. BODKIN. Q. Is Mr. Coape what is called a betting man? A. Certainly not within that description—he does not attend races at all now; but for some years, almost I may say before my knowledge of him, I believe he had an interest in one or two horses, with Mr. King—I have not advised the family to repurchase the annuities, I advised them on the contrary, that Mr. Coape had better be where he is now, to clear his character—I am quite aware that they have only to give you the money, and to take their deeds.

MR. BALLANTINE. Q. I believe his money evaporated in some model farm? A. Yes; a great deal of it—he is a man of remarkably small personal expenses, to my knowledge of him—he fell into bad hands in the railway time, and lost a great deal of money—I can say that all his money has gone in trying to make money, and not in expenditure of his own, in speculations, or rather in bad investments.

(The Jury stated that there was no necessity for Mr. Ballantine to address them on behalf of the defendant.)


(There were three other indictments against the defendant, upon which no evidence was offered.)

NEW COURT—Tuesday, September 18th, 1855.



Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Sixth Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-856

856. ELLEN WILLIAMS , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which she

PLEADED GUILTY.* Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18550917-857

857. MARGARET JONES was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution. GEORGE HOLMES. I reside at No. 45, Homer-street, and am a confectioner.

On Saturday, 1st Sept., the prisoner came, towards dusk—she had a bottle of ginger beer; the price was a penny—she gave me a shilling; I gave her change and she left—before she left, I placed the shilling on the back counter; there were no other shillings there—within three minutes, when I had washed the glass, I took the shilling up to make up the difference of the penny, which I had taken from the till—I tried it with my teeth, and found it bad—I put it in my pocket, where I had no other shilling—when I went home at night, I placed it in a small jar, and kept it by itself—I afterwards gave it to the constable, when the prisoner was taken—on the Wednesday following, the prisoner came again about a quarter to 4 o'clock—I saw her in the shop, and knew her—she asked for a bottle of ginger beer, I served her—she gave me a bad shilling—I turned round and tried it with my teeth, and told her it was bad, and that she bad passed one with me before, and I should give her into custody—she replied that I should not nail her, and ran away—she ran out of the shop, I followed her, and caught her about fifty yards off, at the corner of Homer-street—I did not see any officer—I detained her there—she looked round and said she would walk quietly with me to the station, which was on the right-hand side—she turned the corner with me, and she had no sooner done that than a man came up and said, "What is the matter, my dear?" she said, "This man is going to give me in charge for passing bad money"—the man took hold of her hand that had the purse in, from which she gave the shilling and said, "Come along"—he pulled her away, and I let go her hand—they walked very quickly till they got to the top of John-street—the station is in a line with that—I had previously sent a boy for a constable—they saw the constable coming, and the man ran down Should-ham-street as fast as he could go—the prisoner ran down Crawford-street—she was taken, and I gave her in charge—I marked the two shillings, and gave them to the constable—I am quite sure they were the two I had received from the prisoner.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Do you keep the shop? A. Yes—I do not live there—I have a good many people come to my shop at times—I sell penny ices as well as ginger beer—I stand between two counters—there is a counter at the back, where the ginger beer bottles stand—there was nobody in the shop beside me that I can recollect—my wife was not there—I looked at the shilling, and tried it about three minutes afterwards—when the prisoner came in on the Wednesday, she denied that she had been in before.

Q. Did you not tell her this shilling was bad, and she had tendered you a bad shilling before, did not she say she had not, and did not you tell her she had, and did not she say she had not, and go away? A. She said, "You don't nail me"—I do not recollect whether I told her twice that she had passed a bad shilling before—I told her once—this is not the first time I have said anything about the man coming up—I told the prisoner she had tendered me a bad shilling before—she said she had not, and ran away, but she said, "You don't nail me" before she ran away—I always recollected that, and I recollected about the man—this is my signature to this deposition; it was read over to me before I signed it.

(The deposition being read stated: "I told her she had tendered me a bad shilling; she said she had not—I told her she had passed one on me before; she said she had not, and ran away.")

Q. Now you see there is nothing about nailing her, nor about the man? A. I stated that.

MR. POLAND. Q. Before the Magistrate did you state that this woman said, "You shan't nail me", and also about the man? A. Yes.

WILLIAM TULLEY (policeman, A 377). I took the prisoner on 5th Sept—she was running down Crawford-street—I got this shilling from Mr. Holmes, and this other shilling he brought to the station—the prisoner had one good shilling in her porte monnaie.

Cross-examined. Q. Is this correct, "When I got to the shop the prisoner was running away, and I stopped her?" A. I did not go to the shop at all—this is my signature to the deposition (read—"Yesterday I took the prisoner into custody—I received the two shillings from the prosecutor—when I got to the shop the prisoner was running away, and I stopped her—she had a porte monnaie in her hand and a good shilling in it.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These shillings are both bad.)

(The prisoner received a good character.)

GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Six Months.

Reference Number: t18550917-858

858. WILLIAM TRENCH was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

HENRY PAGE . I am a ginger beer seller, at No. 189, Bethnal Green-road On 7th Aug. I was in my shop—about 11 o'clock at night the prisoner came, and asked for three bottles of ginger beer—he asked what the price was—I said a penny a bottle, and a penny apiece he would have to leave on the bottles, which he would have back again when he returned them—he said his little boy would bring them back that night, or in the morning—he threw down a 5s. piece—we gave him change, and he was about to put up his umbrella, as it was raining—I said, "Shall I put it up?"—he said, "No, thank you"—I turned back, and felt the crown piece, put it to my teeth, and found it was bad—by that time the prisoner had got to the middle of the road—he ran down Wilmot-street, and hid himself in a door-way—I followed and collared him—I asked him for my own—he said, "Here it is, old man, don't make a noise about it"—I kept him, and the policeman came and took him.

LAWRENCE POOL (policeman, C 169). On Tuesday, 7th Aug., the prisoner was given to me by the last witness—he was taken before the Magistrate at Worship-street, and discharged, that being the only case—I produce this crown piece which I received from Mr. Page—I found on the prisoner is. 6d. in good money, and some coppers.

CATHARINE DUDLEY . I am the wife of Henry Smith Dudley, a chandler, in Green-street, Stepney. On 21st Aug., about 9 o'clock at night, the prisoner came for 6d. worth of the best eggs—I served him—he gave me a crown piece—I gave him a half crown and two shillings change—I examined the crown—I put it to my teeth, and found it was gritty—I called the policeman, and gave him the crown—he asked me to mark it, I did so, and he asked me for a description of the man.

Prisoner. Q. How was I dressed? A. As you are now—in a cloth coat, and a cap on—I did not see that you had got a black eye then—you had the next day—I told the Magistrate you had it not the night before—I thought you might have got it afterwards.

JAMES SIMMONS (policeman, K 442). I was called by the last witness—I got this crown piece from her.

GEORGE WARMAN . I am in the employ of Mr. Simmons, a butcher, in Green-street. On Tuesday, 21st Aug., I was standing just inside Mrs.

Dudley's shop—the prisoner came in, and asked for 6d. worth of eggs—I did not see what he paid, he gave Mrs. Dudley some money—I noticed him, because he pushed against me.

Prisoner. Q. How do you know me? A. By your whiskers—I do not know any one else of the same complexion as you—I know you by your look altogether.

WILLIAM COPPING (policeman, K 379). I received a description of the person who had been at Mrs. Dudley's—I went to No. 40, Skinner-street, Bishopsgate-street, and found the prisoner in bed—I asked him his name, and he gave it me—I told him I must take him into custody for passing a bad crown piece last night—he said, "I know nothing about it, I was at home all day"—on the way to the station he said, "I was in that public house on the opposite side, in the same street"

WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both bad.

Prisoners Defence. It is a very hard thing that a man must be taken out of bed for a thing he knows nothing about.

GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Twelve Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-859

859. WILLIAM BRUNTON was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

HARRIET JAKE PENNINGTON . My father keeps a tobacconist's shop. On 5th Sept., between 5 and 7 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came and asked for half an ounce of tobacco—I served him—he gave me a half crown—I gave him 2s. 4 1/2 d. change—he went out of the shop—I put the half crown into the till—there was small change there, but no other half crown—I remained in the shop till about 10 or 11 o'clock at night—I then went up stairs, leaving my mother in the shop—I know that when I went up, the half crown that I took of the prisoner was still in the till, and there was no other there—on the next day I was in the back parlour, and saw the prisoner come into the shop, about 10 o'clock, or a quarter before 10—I saw him through the window—my sister served him—in consequence of knowing him, I went into the shop, and watched to see what he put down—he put down a bad shilling—I spoke to my sister—she looked at it, and it was bad—a constable was sent for, and the prisoner was given into custody—I am quite sure he is the person who gave me the half crown.

ANN PENNINGTON . I was in my husband's shop on Wednesday, 5tb Sept.—my daughter, the last witness, was serving there—I remained in the shop when she went to bed, between 10 and 11 o'clock—after she was gone, I went to the till—I found one half crown there, and no other—I examined it—it was bad—no one had been to the till after my daughter went up till I went to it—I kept the half crown away from other money, and gave it to the constable next day.

MARY ANN PENNINGTON . I am a daughter of the last witness. On Thursday, 6th Sept., I saw the prisoner in the shop, about a quarter before 10 o'clock in the evening—he came for half an ounce of tobacco—I served him, and he gave me a shilling—my sister was in the parlour—she told me something—I looked at the shilling, and found it bad—my father sent for a constable—I gave the shilling to him.

THOMAS BALDWIN (City policeman. 273). I received the prisoner in custody—he said that he lived at No. 17, in some court facing St. George's Church; he did not know the name of it—I received this shilling, and this half crown.

COURT. Q. Is there any court facing St. George's Church? A. There is

the Mint, which is a small street—I could not find such a person lived there.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling and half crown are both bad.

Prisoner. I have two witnesses to prove I was not there on Wednesday; one is Elizabeth Booty; I do not know the name of the other; I did not come on this side of the water at all from Wednesday, at dinner time.

GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Nine Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-860

860. JAMES FRANCIS , feloniously marrying Priscilla Gallin, his wife Clara being alive: to which he PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.

(MR. RIBTON, for the Prosecution, and MR. GIFFARD, for the Defence, stated that they believed it was a mistake; the prisoner had received a letter, stating that his wife was dead, and believed it.) Confined Two Days .

Reference Number: t18550917-861

861. ANN WHITE , stealing 1 sheet, and other articles, value 7s.; the goods of George Churchill.

TEMPERANCE CHURCHILL . I am the wife of George Churchill. In May the prisoner lodged at our house, with a man named Dutton, as man and wife—I missed a ring, a brooch, a table cloth, sheet, pillow cases, and a petticoat—I did not miss them till the prisoner was gone, and I went to set my things to rights.

Prisoner. I left your house on 21st May; I worked for you a month and five days; you gave me these things for doing your work. Witness. No, I did not—you did not pay for your lodging—I gave you the lodging in return for what you did—I gave you a box of dirty clothes—I said, "If you will wash them I will give you the little box."

Prisoner. She gave me the sheet, table cloth, and two pillow cases; she is a woman very much given to drink.

COURT. Q. Did you give her this sheet or pillow cases? A. No—I gave her a pair of calico sheets, not this, and a little wooden box.

SAMUEL HORNAL . I am an officer. I received information from Duttan, and went to Stokelychurch, where the prisoner lived; I found in a box nine duplicates—I did not see the prisoner then—I took her on the following Saturday—I told her the charge was for stealing a sheet and table cloth—she said, "I am willing to go with you, I have got nothing but what I worked hard for"—I showed her these tickets on the following morning—she said, "They are my tickets."

FRANK FARNDEN . I am a pawnbroker. This sheet and table cloth were pawned with me on 28th May, in the name of Ann Dutton—I have seen the prisoner, but I could not identify her as the person who pawned these—this is the duplicate I gave.

ROBERT MILLER . I am a pawnbroker. I have a petticoat and pillow case, pawned on 8th June, in the name of Ann Dutton—I know the prisoner by sight—I cannot recollect whether she pawned these—I gave this duplicate.

TEMPERANCE CHURCHILL re-examined. This is my sheet—here is where the name has been taken out—this table cloth is mine, it has no mark—I know it by an iron mould, and a hole in it, which was made by a little dog.


Reference Number: t18550917-862

862. WILLIAM BARNETT , feloniously uttering a forged 5l. Bank of England note; also. 1 other forged 5l. Bank of England note; also. 1 other forged 5l. Bank of England note; also. I other forged 5l. Bank of England note; with intent to defraud: to all which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Six Years' Penal Servitude .

Reference Number: t18550917-863

863. HENRY WILLIAM OSWALD , stealing a letter, containing a sovereign; the property of the Postmaster General: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Four Years' Penal Servitude .

Reference Number: t18550917-864

864. ISAAC BROWN and RICHARD RICHARDSON , unlawfully obtaining money by false pretences.

MR. GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

SOLOMON COWAN . I am a general dealer, and live in Goswell-street. I had known Richardson two or three years—he first came to me about this matter about a week or ten days before 5th Aug.—he told me that he knew a person in the silk trade who was in difficulties, and was afraid he should not be able to get on, as he had some bills to meet, and he had a large quantity of bobbins of silk by him—he asked if I should like to be a buyer of them—on 5th Aug. the two prisoners came, and Richardson said, "I have brought a few of them here just to show you; there is only twenty, there will be a large quantity if you are likely to do anything with them"—I asked what they wanted for them—they asked me a shilling a bobbin for them—on 11th Aug. they came, and said, "We have got 400 bobbins here to-day, if you will like to buy them"—I told them it was a thing I did not understand—I did not know the value of them, Richardson said, "You know I would not bring them if they were not worth the money"—I told him I did not understand the value of them, I did not deal in anything of the sort before, and did not know what quantity of silk there was—they said they were well worth the money, and there were twenty-four drachms of silk on the bobbins—they said there was the trade mark on the bobbins, some four, some four and a half, and some five grains—the bobbins were marked; that was what the trade mark was, as they told me, and they showed me this bill of parcels.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Are you sure that this bill was the one produced? A. I think it is—I believe it is—here is the date, 11th Aug., on it—I will swear this was the paper—I did not have it in my hand—they put it on the table—I just looked at the amount—this is the paper—(read: Aug. 11, 1855; Mr. Brown, bought of H. C. Pawling, 100 bobbins of mixed silk, &, 23l. 15s.")

MR. GIFFARD. Q. Did you nee who the bill was made to? A. Yes, to Brown—I bought the 400 bobbins of them" for 12l.—I said I do not know anything about the buying of them—he said, "It is all right enough, and Richardson gave me a card of Brown's"—I believed the statement made to be true, certainly—I would not have advanced the 12l. if I had not believed it true—on 11th Aug. they came again, and brought 400 more bobbins, and I bought them for 12l.—I never advance money on anything—Brown said he expected he should settle his affairs soon, and if I would let him have them back, he would take them ten or twenty at a time, and give me a shilling a piece for them—I saw Mr. Cooke, I think, about 17th Aug., and he made a communication to me—on the 20th, I was at Southend—the prisoners both came to me—they asked me how I came to go out of town when there was a lot more bobbins for me—they said, "It is no use leaving your wife at home, she won't take anything, she won't buy anything"—Richardson said, "You are a d——fool for going out of town, see what I have been obliged to do, "and he produced a pawnbroker's order at Mr. Attenborough's—he said, "Give us 10l. "—I told them I did not come down there to do business, I came down for my health, and I would have nothing to do with it—they slept there that night, and said I must come

up, and they would pay my expenses, for they had a bill to pay on the Tuesday—I came up with them the next day—they told me not to be out, for they had 400 more bobbins to bring, and they should bring them in about an hour—I went to Mr. Brannan, and he was at my house when they came with the 400 bobbins, and this bill with them", 450 bobbins of silk, 52l. 9s."—Richardson took this bill out of his pocket, and said", There is property enough for money."

Cross-examined. Q. You had no idea of coming from Southend? A. No; they persuaded me—I gave directions to Brannan, when I arrived in London from the packet—the prisoners left me—I had been at Southend a fortnight or rather better—I had not been there all the time—I had been up between the times—I am a general dealer—I attend sales—I am well known to all the auctioneers in London to be a large buyer at sales—I did not know Mr. Pawling; I know nothing about him—I did not know that Brown succeeded him.

Q. Did you not before the first transaction buy a quantity of goods of Pawling? A. I bought of a gentleman that Richardson introduced me to—I do not know who it was—some Irish linens and some silk, but not on bobbins—I never bought a bobbin in my life, except once I bought 300 or 400 at Toplis's sale three or four years ago, but they were all burnt—it was a service sale—they turned out very bad—there was not one perfect bobbin—I burnt them—I showed them to one or two, and they said they were of no use; they were in such a state I could do nothing with them—I have been a general dealer about thirty years—I know some things very well, such as ironmongery and paper—I buy a great deal of paper—I mean to swear that I bought these bobbins—they were not left with me, and I advanced money on them—I never advance on anything—I was tried in this Court for buying some of Dixon's cards, and the late Recorder said, "Mr. Clarkson, where is your case?" and the case never went to trial, so you cannot slur my character with that—I had the cards at my place, and Mr. Cubitt, of Millbank, bought some of the same cards—I bought these bobbins and paid from first to last about 30l.—I paid all that I bargained to pay, decidedly—they were not left an hour at my place before I purchased them—I do not know whether they did not leave the first till I was up one Sunday morning, but that was the only time—I do not think bobbins were ever left for some hours before I paid the money, but I will not swear it—they might have been for an hour or so—I paid in the first instance 12s., and I paid one time 12l.—I did not deduct anything for interest—I never took any pledge—I did not deduct anything, what should I deduct for?—I produced a book at the Police Court which contained an account of this particular transaction, but it was not my writing, it was my daughter's, and the Magistrate would not admit it.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. How did your daughter enter these things in the book? A. From my statement, and she was present at the transaction—these are the bobbins.

WILLIAM COOKE . I am a fringe maker, and live in Banner-square. I went to Mr. Cowan in consequence of a communication made to me—I looked at some bobbins similar to these produced—these are not the bobbins usually used in trade, but when the silk is wound over them they have the appearance of bobbins used in trade—the value of these bobbins as they are is 1 1/2 d. or 2d. a bobbin, if they were the usual bobbins they would be worth from 18d. to 21d.—here is not quite a drachms of silk on these bobbins—it is usual in trade to have marks on the bobbins, to indicate

the weight of the wood—these bobbins are marked four drachms, that signifies that the wood is four drachms—the wood of these would weigh four drachma, and eight drachms added to it.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you weighed one of these? A. Yes, I weighed one of them—I do not know which—I have some respectable bobbins with me—here is one full, and one empty—this silk on this full one is worth 2s. 3d.—I will swear the silk on this one is down to the usual depth it is one of my own winding—this is the same sort of silk—these bobbins are of different sizes and bulks—some are very much thinner and some stouter.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. How long have you been in trade? A. Twenty-two years—I never saw such bobbins as these before.

Brown to MR. COWAN. Q. Tell me the first day I came to your house about this transaction? A. On Sunday, 5th Aug.—that was the time I bought the twenty bobbins—I gave you 12s. for them—you asked me 1s. a bobbin—I said I did not know the value of them—I offered you 10s., and I gave you 12s.—Mr. Richardson did not say anything about 2s. when I had the money in my hand—he did not say", Give him 9s., that will be 1s. for interest"—the only thing you said was, that if you got on you would give me 1s. a bobbin for them—I do not think I saw you again till the 11th—that was on Wednesday—I did not have any more goods of you from the 5th till the 11th—I do not remember anything about 132 bobbins on the 8th—I do not remember your being in my room on the 8th, you might have come—I think you were in my premises on Wednesday evening—I do not think I gave you any money—you said you had a lot more bobbins—I did not buy any bobbins on that day—I never paid you 30s., you know that very well—I do not know that you did not call on the 9th, but I had no business with you—you brought bobbins on the 5th, I do not remember anything of any other—you brought 200 bobbins—I did not advance for them, I paid you the money—on 11th Aug. you received 12l., that was the time you brought 400 bobbins—I did not count them, you told me there were 400—they were kept distinct, but Brannan put them together—I cannot tell you the box they were brought in on the 11th—I know this green box is yours—I cannot tell when you brought it—after the 11th you brought 200 one night—I really cannot tell when it was—I paid you 6l.—I had no more till the night I came from Southend.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you made any inquiry with regard to Mr. Pawling? A. Not any—I have never been near New-street—I do not know that there is such a person in existence—they brought other bills beside Mr. Pawling's—I think one was Brooks, in Newgate-street.

MR. GIFFARD. Q. On how many occasions did the prisoners come together? A. I think on every occasion.

JAMES BRANNAN (police inspector.) In consequence of the prosecutor speaking to me, I went to his house on 21st Aug., between 8 and 9 o'clock at night—the prisoners came after I was there—I followed them up stairs—I told them I belonged to the police, and had come to take them into custody for defrauding Mr. Cowan—they both asked what I meant—I said, "For sub stitting wood for silk"—Brown said, "He bought them with his eyes open"—Richardson said, "Of course he did"—I said they must come with me—Brown said, "It is very hard, can't it be settled?"—I said, "Not here"—Richardson said, pointing to Brown, "That is my master, he is responsible for what I have done"—I saw Brown searched, and in his possession was a

pawnbroker's deposit note, and an invoice, dated 6th Aug.—this other invoice was found on the table, in the presence of Brown—I said to him, "Is this yours?"—he said, "Yes, I have just put it down"—the prisoners were taken to the station, and I proceeded to the address given by Brown, No. 5 Rose-street, Church-street, Bethnal-green—it is a place fitted up like a shop—there were some brown paper parcels marked, which were dummies—one was a pillow case, one some old rope, one a counterpane, some pieces of thread; all were valueless—I found these bobbins without silk, and three or four ounces weight of silk in the house—there were silk winding machines there—I saw these three bobbins with silk on them found on Richardson.

Cross-examined. Q. When Richardson said, "There is my master" Brown was present? A. Yes—I have made inquiries respecting Pawling—I understand he has absconded, and that Brown took the premises—I do not know that Richardson is an ironmonger, though I have known him nearly twenty years.

JOHN NORTON . I live at No. 2, New-street, Great Queen-street. I did work for Mr. Pawling; these are two of his bill heads—neither of them are his handwriting—Mr. Pawling was not carrying on business there on 5th Aug.—he left one week before last quarter day—I know Brown—he had been in the employ of Mr. Pawling—I have seen Richardson at Mr. Pawling's—I was in Mr. Pawling's employ from sixteen to eighteen months—I never saw anything there but real bobbins.

Cross-examined. Q. What do you say to this; is it a real one or a sham one? A. It is not a real one—there were many thousand bobbins at Mr. Pawling's, but not like this—I cannot tell merely by sight whether these (the bobbins with silk on) are real or not—I had seen Richardson at Mr. Paw-ling's more than once—the last time I saw him there was about a fortnight before I left, which was the week before Mr. Brown had the premises—Mr. Brown said he had taken the premises of Mr. Pawling.

Brown. Q. Do you remember Mr. Pawling's property being sold? A. Yes; I remember some person buying the machines and silk—I should say there were 2,000 or 3,000 bobbins—I believe you had the disposal of the property.

ALFRED COTTON . I am shopman to Mr. Attenborough, No. 31, Crown-street On 17th Aug., Richardson came to me with a box of bobbins of silk—I asked him whether they were all silk—he told me they were, and that they cost him from 2s. 3d. to 2s. 6d. a bobbin—I asked him what he used them for—he told me he was a fringe maker—he handed me his card—from that I imagined he was a respectable man—I asked him what they were for—he said his friend knew more about them, and he went out and fetched in Brown—I said to Brown, "What do you use these for?"—I advanced 12l. on them—there were 500 bobbins.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you got them here? A. Yes; a sample of them—these are exactly the same quality as the others—I had three un-wound, there was a quarter of an ounce of silk on the three bobbins—I asked Richardson what the bobbins were worth a piece—he Raid from 2s. 3d. to 2s. 6d.—I asked him how much silk was on a bobbin—he said, "I do not know"; and he stepped out and fetched Brown—I think three bobbins were left with me for one day—this is the card Brown gave me: "J. Brown, No. 5, Rose-street, Church-street, Bethnal-green."

BROWN— GUILTY . Aged 26.


Confined Twelve Months.

Reference Number: t18550917-865

865. JAMES GEORGE , stealing 1 watch, value 10l.; the goods of Chahata Jassa, from his person.

CHAHATA JASSA . I live in Tavistock-street, and am an engineer. On the evening of 11th Sept., I was at the Lyceum Theatre; there were many persons going in at the same time I was—I had a gold watch in my waist-coat pocket—it had a chain through the button hole—I felt a pull at it, the prisoner tried to break my chain—it was very strong—I took his hand with my watch in it—he slipped his hand down—I saw my watch in his hand—I gave him to a policeman—I am sure he is the same person.

ANGUS FRAZER (policeman, G 110). I was on duty at the Lyceum—I heard "Police!" called; I went, and the prisoner was given to me by the prosecutor—he said he took his hand with his watch in it—the prisoner said it was not him—I found the watch close to the prisoner.

GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-866

866. EDWARD JOSEPH WORTLEY , stealing 2l.; the money of Harriet Eliza Mumford, his mistress: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 13.— Judgment Respited .

Reference Number: t18550917-867

867. GEORGE WILKINSON , stealing 119 yards of silk, value 17l. 6s. 6d.; the goods of, John Falshawe Pawson, and others; having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 30.— Four Years' Penal Servitude .

OLD COURT.—Wednesday, September 19th, 1855.

PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Justice CROMPTON; Mr. Justice CROWDER; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart, Ald.; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Sir ROBERT WALTER GARDEN, Knt., Ald.: and Mr. Ald. KENNEDY.

Before Mr. Justice Crompton and the Third Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-868

868. THOMAS CLARK , stealing, whilst employed in the Post Office, a poet letter, containing one sovereign; the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.

MESSRS. CLARKSON and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN GARDINER . I am a clerk in the General Post Office. On 13th Aug. I made up this letter (produced)—it is addressed to Mr. Charles Galloway, King's Head Hotel, Rhys—I inclosed a sovereign in it, in a card—I had previously marked it—I sealed the letter, and posted it in the hall of the General Post Office, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I gave it to Mr. Dixon, who was at the window—I had previously shown it to Mr. Forbes—on the following morning, in consequence of some information I received, I searched for that letter in the circulation department—I found it at the Chester division—it had then been sorted—it was in the same state it is now, with a rent in the corner—there is a slight fracture by the side of the wax, but not an opening—the letter has never been opened—the sovereign was not in it—besides sorting for divisions, there is also a sorting for particular boxes—this letter had not been sorted into the boxes when I found it—I do not know that it had been sorted for the divisions—when I first received information I saw a number of letters for the division, and I presumed it was there—I found it at the division—it could not have got where 1 found it unless it had undergone the process of divisional sorting—

in the regular course it would have gone off on the overnight, but it did not—it was handed to Mr. Dixon—(Mr. Edward Ellis, a clerk in the Post Office, produced the sovereign)—this is the sovereign that I inclosed in the letter.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. This was a letter not sent in the ordinary course? A. It was not—the sovereign was placed inside a note—it was first fixed in the centre of a small piece of card, and then folded in a note—I know a person named Eames—he was connected with the divisional sorting that morning—the prisoner is a messenger—he was employed in giving over the letters to the divisional sorters—it was his duty on this morning to take that portion of the letters in which, in the ordinary course, this letter would be found—it would not have to pass through any hands before it came to the prisoner's—I delivered it to Mr. Dixon—it was delivered by him to one of the deputy comptrollers on duty—the letter would pass direct into the prisoner's hands from the man who took the tray to the division—Mr. Partridge, the deputy comptroller, placed it in the tray, and the tray was carried by Eames to the prisoner—that is the course—the letter would not pass through any other person's hands—I believe Eames is a letter carrier—I am not aware that Eames was ever charged by the prisoner with defacing letters—I never heard it—I do not know how this sovereign came back.

JOHN COWHERD DIXOX . I am a clerk in the General Post Office, On the afternoon of 13th Aug. I was at the window of the Post Office, and received this letter from Mr. Gardiner—it appeared to contain coin—I gave it to Mr. Partridge, the deputy comptroller on duty at the time.

ROBERT PARTRIDGE . I am one of the deputy comptrollers of the Post Office—I received from Mr. Dixon a letter in an envelope on the afternoon of 13th Aug.; this is the letter—I locked it up in my desk that night, and about half past 6 o'clock next morning I placed it in a tray of letters for the North Western railway division, to go by the daily mail—I saw Eames take that tray, about ten minutes after I had put the letter into it, to the North Western railway division—they would be placed before the prisoner—He was one of the messengers employed in the circulation department—it was his duty to place the letters before the clerks to sort—before placing the letters in the tray, I ascertained that there was money in it, by the hand—I could feel the money—I knew that it contained money—the letter was then perfect—there was no rent at the corner; I am quite certain of that—my attention had been particularly called to the letter.

Cross-examined. Q. I believe after this matter occurred, the prisoner was brought to you? A. Not to me, to Mr. Bourne, another deputy comptroller—I know nothing of the searching of his person—what are called" Good letters", that is letters that have something more to be paid upon them, are sorted separately by other sorters—it is not the duty of the messengers to examine and see whether there are any good letters—they constantly do select those letters, and put them aside for the sorters—he places them in a distinct place—the only examination is to see whether it has a rate charged upon it—he would take it up to see whether it was a paid or an unpaid letter—I should say he would not take it up to see whether it was heavy or light—it would not be his business to see whether there was any excess due upon it—the table at which the divisional sorters stand, is a very long table—they stand about a foot apart—there are four or five sorters in that department—they stand with their backs to the messenger—they need not turn round when he delivers the letters to them; they need only make way for him to put them down—the room from

which the tray was taken is another room—there may be thirty, forty, fifty or more persons employed in that room—I put the letter in the tray among other letters, not at the top—Eames took the tray to the North Western division—it is all one room, in fact, but in different compartments—formerly they were separate rooms—there is no partition—500, 600, or 700 persons are employed in that office—there are large open spaces to admit you from one compartment to another—the letter lay in the tray about five or six minutes before Eames took it away—I do not know of the prisoner having made any accusation against Eames of defacing letters, or any accusation—I am not aware of any accusation being made against Eames by any one—I know Mr. Ely—Eames would only have to go about thirty or forty yards with the tray, before he gave it to the prisoner.

WILLIAM EAMES . I remember the morning when the prisoner was taken into custody at the Post Office—I took several bags of letters to him that morning—he was in the North Western division—I took them to him as I found them.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been blamed at all for defacing letters? A. Not that I know of—I could not forget it, because I never recollect to be charged with the like.

Q. About six weeks before this matter happened, were you not brought before the comptroller about something? A. I recollect there was something now—I did not recollect when you first asked me; I swear that—the charge was that, in having my breakfast, I put a grain of salt on the back of a letter—there were not two big letters turned upside down that I know of—there was not a lot of salt on one and a lot of watercresses on the other—I had some watercresses with my breakfast—I had not taken the letters out of the tray before I had my breakfast—I did not breakfast on the tray, I breakfasted in the road—the road is a place where we throw off letters, in the same office—I am a letter carrier—the comptroller blamed me, and told me not to breakfast off letters again—I did not accuse the prisoner of having told of me, and did not abuse him about it—I swear that—I never said anything to him about it in any way—I know Mr. Ely—I did not accuse the prisoner of having told of me, nor did he say it was not him, but Mr. Ely—Mr. Ely did tell of me—I never said to the prisoner that I would be down upon him, for what he had told against me to the comptroller.

MR. CLARKSON. Q. Was Mr. Ely's complaint against you, that you had spilt some salt upon some letters? A. Yes—I cannot tell how long that is ago; it was some time before 14th Aug.—it was Mr. Partridge who blamed me—I have been in the Post Office since 31st Jan. last—I was at Bow-street, but was not examined.

JOHN FORBES . I am a messenger in the General Post Office—in consequence of some directions given to me on 13th Aug., I observed the prisoner in the Circulation department, on the morning of the 14th, between 6 and 7 o'clock—he was in the North Western railway division—I saw Eames there—he brought the tray, and put it down on the table—the prisoner was standing by—some little time after, I saw the prisoner select a letter from the tray; he took it up in his hand, and felt it between his thumb and finger—the letter had been shown to me the previous evening—it was that same letter—I could swear to it—I can swear to seeing that letter in his hand—this (produced) is the same letter—he then laid it down on the table, and put some more letters over to the sorters—he then went and took this letter up again in his hand—he brought it about five or six yards towards me, between his two hands—I then saw him make a violent attempt to force something out of the letter—he then held it up between

him and the light—lie then took and knocked it on the table on one end—he then applied both his hands to it, thumbs and fingers—he had some considerable difficulty—he kept working it on the table with both his thumbs, trying to force something out of it—he turned half round, and put his hands behind his head, and then drew his hand over his mouth—it appeared to me that he put something in his mouth—I then saw him turn round and take the letter up again; he seemed to straighten it a little with his hand—he then placed it in front of a row of other letters, took them up, turned round, and put them down to the sorter—I then went and told the comptroller on duty—I was in such a position that the prisoner could not see me—I was above him, in a private place up stairs.

Cross-examined. Q. Upstairs in a private room? A. Yes, above the department—I was looking through a grating in the wall—I was about ten or twelve yards from the prisoner—the division is about twelve feet high, not nearly so high as this Court—I was about nine feet above him, or ten feet—the grating It looked through was in the side wall—I looked down upon him—the roof of the division is a lead flat, with sky lights—I did not look through the roof—I was between the floor and the ceiling, the prisoner was under me—the grating is visible, it is to let in air to the department—the sorters were at the table—I had felt the letter the night before—I did not break it, or push it about—I took it in my hand so as to feel whether there was a sovereign in it; that was all—I ascertained that it did contain coin—there were only two sorters where the prisoner was—there might have been a dozen other persons in the room; it is a very large room—this was about six or seven, or perhaps eight minutes taking place—he walked forward towards me to look at the letter; he had the letter in his hand—he did not walk back again with it to the tray, he put it over to the sorters—he put it in front of a row of other letters, and put them all down by the sorters—he knocked the letter on the table violently; I could hear it—I heard it and saw it—he knocked it two or three times—I heard him knock, and saw him in the act of knocking—I heard it two or three times—I was not present when he was searched and stripped in the Comptroller's office—I said I believed he had swallowed it—I did not tell the Comptroller that—I told it at Bow-street—I told Mr. Partridge, the Comptroller, that he had put it in his mouth—I said I believed he had put the sovereign in his mouth—I do not remember mentioning, until I got to Bow-street, about his swallowing it—I did not hear of his having been searched and stripped before the Comptroller, and no sovereign was found—I knew that the officers searched him, and I heard that no sovereign was found—I had mentioned about his putting the sovereign in his mouth before I heard that—I said it to the chief Comptroller, Mr. Bokenham, and others, that were present—William Smee was along with me at the grating—it was large enough for both of us to see through—I never heard of any reward being offered for the conviction of the prisoner—I have never been promised any reward of any kind—I have often watched people before; it is very necessary—I am not proud of it—I cannot tell how often I have been set to watch people, it is so many times—I have never received any gratuities from the Post Office—I get 2l. a week—the prisoner had about 30s.—I have other duties to do besides watching—I have never had a 5l. note for good service money.

MR. CLARKSON. Q. How long have you been in the Post Office? A. Above twenty-one years.

COURT. Q. Do you ever watch of your own accord, without receiving orders to watch? A. I do sometimes—I had directions on this occasion—

from what I had seen before, I had proper instructions here; it was a test letter—1 had given information about the prisoner before.

WILLIAM SMEE . I am a policeman attached to the Post Office. On the morning of 14th Aug., I was watching behind the grating with Forbes—I saw a tray of letters brought to a table where the prisoner was employed—I then saw the prisoner take several letters from the tray, and place them on the left hand side of him—I then saw him handle several letters as though he was feeling whether there was anything in them, examining them—I saw him take up two or three, and examine them—he then took one with a black mark across the centre—this is the letter to the best of my belief—he brought it in his hand three or four steps towards me, and placed it on another table—he then took the letter in his hand and pressed it, as though he was endeavouring to press something out against the seal—he then held the letter up to the light, with the back towards me, as though he was looking at it to see if there was anything in it—he then stepped back to the table with the letter in his hand, and knocked it three or four times endways on the table—he then laid it on the table, with the back-side upwards, the seal side, and placed his two thumbs on the letter, as though he was forcing something out—he then took his hands from the table, turned round, and placed both his hands behind his neck, and brought them round to his face, bringing his right hand over his mouth—I then saw a motion with his mouth, as though he had put something in his month—he then turned round to the table, took the letter, and placed it at the end of a lot more letters—he then took the letters from the table and placed them before the sorter, M'Farlane, on the table behind him—he was standing with his back to the sorter, and he had to turn round to place the letters on the sorter's table.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been long in the service of the Post Office? A. About five months—before that I was in the police, on plain clothes duty—we do not term that a detective, we call them divisional plain clothes men—people choose to call us detectives, but the detectives are combined of a small portion of men attached to Scotland-yard—this was the first time I was employed to detect at the Post Office—the first one that I have had to trial—I get 30s. a week—I had a guinea in the police—I mentioned about the prisoner swallowing the sovereign, before I was examined at Bow-street—I mentioned it to Forbes, and I said to Mr. Gardiner, one of the inspectors, that I believed he had put it in his mouth—I did not say swallowed it, because I could not prove that—I believed he had swallowed it, before I got to Bow-street—when he was searched the sovereign was not found—I believe he has been in the House of Detention—I know that he was watched there to a certain degree, to see whether the sovereign should turn up—I never heard that a reward of 5l. was offered there for watching him—I never heard of his being removed from cell to cell thirty times for the purpose of watching him—I never heard of any reward—he was first searched with his clothes on, and I afterwards stripped him to search him—I aid not find the sovereign—I did not hear the sovereign sound on the table—I could not hear it—I should say it would have been impossible to hear it at such a distance.

MATTHEW PEAK . I am one of the constables of the Post Office. On the morning of 14th Aug. I saw the prisoner at the General Post Office, about 6 o'clock—about a quarter to 7 o'clock I saw him with a letter in his hand—I noticed the letter—this is the one, or one similar, though I do not think there is another like that—I noticed the black mark across the centre—

I was afterwards sent for to the Comptroller's office, that same morning I searched the prisoner, and found on him six sovereigns, one half sovereign, seven shillings, and twopence in copper, and three five-franc pieces—I did not find the missing sovereign.

Cross-examined. Q. Are you aware that he was in the habit of letting lodgings? A. I have seen lodgers at his house, three or four—I do not know anything about his domestic affairs—I do not know who attends to the lodgers—he has a servant or two, I believe—I think he has been in the Post Office about ten or twelve years—I do not know of his being stripped—a reward of 2l. was offered if the sovereign could be found.

JOHN LOWTHER DUPLATT TAYLOR . I am employed in the office of Mr. Hill, the Secretary to the Post Office. On the 4th of this month I opened this letter (produced) at the Post Office, it contained a sovereign—I paid particular attention to it, because I had never seen a test sovereign before, and I remember the marks on it—it is an anonymous letter, addressed to the Postmaster General—(read: "Honourable Sir,—T enclose you the marked sovereign that Clark is charged with on 14th Aug. It is a check on my conscience to have the innocent suffer for the guilty.")


Reference Number: t18550917-869

869. FREDERICK MOUL , feloniously forging and uttering a deed, with intent to defraud.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and REES conducted the Prosecution.

ROBERT WILLIAM ROBERTS . In March, 1854, I was cashier in the office of the Times Life Assurance Company. I had held that office for some time previous to that—I know the prisoner, I have seen him frequently at the office of the Company—I have had conversation with him there with reference to a loan transaction for 100l., that he was carrying out with the office—this letter (produced) is his writing—I cannot say that I have seen him write, I have had letters from him, and conversed with him afterwards upon them (read; "15th Feb., 1854. Sir,—This is to inform you that Mr. Cobham, butcher, of Green's End, Woolwich, will join in the bond for 100l. He is a very respectable man, and has been in business several years on his own account. Mr. Robert Parsons, of Plumstead-common, will answer the referred letter.")—I produce a deed of assignment, Mr. Seeker is the subscribing witness.

JAMES BARNETT SECKER . I am the attesting witness to the execution of this deed by Frederick Moul, James Carrington Moul, and George Cobham—it is dated 10th March.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Do you remember the prisoner signing it? A. No, I do not—it was a person calling himself Frederick Moul—whether it was the prisoner or not, I do not know.

ROBERT WILLIAM ROBERTS , continued. The signature of Frederick Moul to this deed I believe to be the prisoner's writing—after the deed was signed, I paid the prisoner some money—I do not exactly recollect how much it was, it was by cheque—(looking at a paper) this is not the cheque I paid him—I did not give him any money in cash—I was not present when the deed was signed—I had seen the deed—I do not think it was ever in the presence of both of us after it was executed, when we had any transaction; I do not remember—at the time the piece of paper was given to him, I had some conversation with him—he thanked me for the money—I gave him some, and he could not give me the difference, and he was to remit it to me—it was a small balance.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything of this deed having been signed in blank? A. No, I do not—I can state that on my oath—(the deed was here read, together with a receipt upon it for 100l., signed by Frederick Moul)—the loan was to be repaid by quarterly instalments—I left the employment of the Times Boon after; therefore, I cannot say whether he paid any instalments—that was in another department—my department had nothing to do with the receiving of the instalments—there had been a previous loan of 50l.—that was not settled—the object of this loan was to clear off the old one, and make a new transaction—I was first aware that the name of George Cobham was alleged not to have been written by him some two months ago—I had never heard of it before—I presume that was because I had left the office—I had a communication made to me.

JAMES BARNETT SECKER re-examined by MR. PARRY. When I witnessed these signatures to the deed I do not recollect whether the parts that are in writing were in blank—I do not know that they were—the writing is Mr. Rushbrook's, the attesting witness to the signature of Robert Green Baxter, one of the sureties—there were three sureties—I do not recollect whether the deed was filled up or not—there are no dates put as to when the signatures were taken—I believe that is not the custom—I cannot give you any idea of the day of the month upon which these signatures were witnessed—I do not know that the writing parts of this deed were in blank—I never heard it till you mentioned it just now—there were other persons in the office when it was signed by the three parties.

COURT. Q. Were the three parties together when they signed it? A. I have no distinct recollection of the transaction at all—Baxter was not present—I do not recollect ever dating a deed without filling up the blanks—I cannot say whether it was filled up or when it was executed—it purports to assign two policies, one dated 16th March, 1853, and another dated 17th March, 1854—the deed is dated 10th March—that does not bring to my mind whether it was filled up when the parties came to execute it—it was my first week in the office, and I was quite a stranger to the business—Rushbrook is still in the Company's employment.

GEORGE COBHAM . I am a butcher, residing at Woolwich. There is no other butcher of my name residing there, to my knowledge—I have known the prisoner about eighteen months, or from that to two years—he was then living at Woolwich—I remember his applying to me to become surety for a loan by this Company—I think that was after I had known him about three months—that would be in May, 1854, about the commencement of May, or the latter end of April—I cannot say exactly whether it was in March—it was either March, April, or May, but which month it was I cannot say for certain—it was about that time, I know—I told him that I would not, that I would have nothing to do with it—he did not apply to me at any other time to become surety—the signature of "George Cobham" to this deed is not mine—I never executed that deed, nor gave any one authority to execute it for me.

Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever any conversation with the prisoner about a loan? A. Yes, once, when he asked me to be security for him—I told him, no, I should have nothing at all to do with it, because I did not know that I should not want to become a borrower myself—the conversation lasted just about as long as I have been in this box—he rented one stall of a stable of me—we were not on visiting terms at all—we did not go to each other's houses—he did not live opposite to me—I never gave him a hint that he might use my name for a loan, or give it in as a security for inquiries

to be made—I had no inquiries made of me—I never had any letter from the office, or any communication from anybody—I did not know whether I should borrow, or in what office—I have had a communication with this very office about a loan for myself—that was a long while afterwards—I did not procure a loan—I said nothing to the prisoner about his being security for me—I am quite sure of that—I underwent a medical examination, to see whether my life was insurable—I did not succeed in procuring the loan—the prisoner did not advise me to apply to the Times Office—I told him I was thinking of insuring in the Times Office, and he advised me to have nothing to do with it, as it was a very bad Company—that was when he asked me to become security for him—the Company never refused me a loan—the answer I received to my application was a lawyer's letter for 100l., for which I had become security for Mr. Moul, together with 9l. 9s. 9d., and 6s. 8d. for the lawyer's letter—I had not become security for him—that was about a fortnight after my application, while I was waiting for an answer to my application—that was the first I heard of Mr. Moul's job.

ARTHUR CORDY EDWARDS . I am solicitor to the Times Assurance Company. In Jan. last I sent letters to Mr. Frederick Moul, No. 15, Cannon-place, Brighton—I received letters in reply to those I had written—I know the letters I received to be Mr. Moul's—(The following copy of a letter sent by the witness was here read, as follows; it was addressed to the prisoner and signed, Edwards and Edwards:" 8th Jan., 1851. Sir,—Your letter to the Times Life Company of the 5th ultimo has been handed to us. It is impossible that we can extend to you the clemency you ask till some explanation respecting this loan is forwarded by you to us. On applying for the loan, you named Mr. George Cobham as one of your sureties, and referred to Mr. Parsons to answer inquiries as to Mr. Cobham's responsibility, etc., etc.—reference was made to Mr. Parsons, who assured the Company of Mr. Cobham's responsibility and respectability; the loan was thereupon agreed We find that Mr. George Cobham executed a deed at the office of the Company at the same time that you and Mr. James C. Moul did. Upon applying to Mr. Cobham for payment under his guarantee, you having made default, Mr. Cobham comes to us with his solicitor and emphatically denies all knowledge of the transaction; that he never was applied to by you to become security, and never executed the bond. Upon the bond being produced to him, with what we had been led to believe was his signature, he says it is a forgery; that he never executed any deed, and reiterates his denial Now this requires explanation: either you have committed a gross fraud upon the Company in introducing some one who personated Mr. Cobham, or Mr. Cobham is telling a gross lie. We expect to hear from you by return, how the matter really stands; whether Mr. George Cobham, a big, stout man, did execute the deed, Mr. Cobham, a butcher, of Woolwich, as, if he did, we are satisfied he can pay, and after his statement, he deserves to be, and shall be made to pay. Remember, by return we expect your reply."—The Prisoner's answer to this letter was as follows; "9th Jan. Sir,—I received your letter this morning. As regards Mr. Cobham, he told me he was willing to sign the bond with me; but the day before I had the money, he told me he should have nothing to do with it; this was after the Company had granted me the loan. I was then placed so that I did not know what to do. I asked another friend to sign for me, who said he would; I was not aware that he had put the name of Mr. George Cobham down, as his own name is Mr. John Williams, a master whitesmith, who is now gone to Australia,

which I did not know at the time he intended to go there. Had Mr. Cobham told me when I asked him that he would not do it, I should have given in Mr. Williams's. I am truly sorry that I was so foolish as to do what I did. As the loan was granted to me, I did not know what to do when Mr. Cobham disappointed me; and now all I can do is, to leave myself in your hands, and I do hope you will not take proceedings against me, and I will act honest and pay the loan, so that there shall be no more trouble about it. I sent Mr. Sweet, the agent of Mr. Cobham, before I filled up my loan paper"—in May, or July, I went to No. 15, Cannon-place, Brighton—the prisoner opened the door to me—I showed him this letter, and asked him whether that was his writing—he said it was—I told him that I had come down from the Times Life Office about it—he asked me to walk into a back room—when he got in he began talking about his circumstances, and telling me a long string of reasons why he had not paid the money; at last I put a stop to the conversation and went to the front door of the house, and beckoned in Terry, the constable, whom I had brought with me—I stated that I gave the prisoner into custody for forging that deed, producing the deed at the time—I pointed out the signature of George Cobham as being the signature which was forged—the prisoner said he was sorry it had come to this, he never meant to defraud the Company—we then all three went into the same back room again—he began talking about his circumstances again, and asked if there was any means of settling it, whether he could pay it in part, and give security for the remainder—I told him I should listen to nothing of the kind—he asked me whether he could speak to Mr. Sheridan, and ask him to do it—Mr. Sheridan is one of the Directors of the Company—I said that I should certainly advise Mr. Sheridan to have nothing to do with it.

Cross-examined. Q. Have you been solicitor for the Company long? A. I have only been in practice myself this present year, but I was in the office of my brother, who was solicitor to the Company, and I attended to the business; I have now joined my brother in partnership—I think I first heard of the signature of Cobham being alleged to be a forgery, about the Aug. previously—I wrote to the prisoner again in Jan.—I did not write before, because the long vacation came in, and I went out of town—I was out of town for a month, at two separate fortnights—the first fortnight was in Sept, and the last was the last fortnight of the long vacation—I went about 5th Oct.—I really cannot say what was the reason I did not press this matter—I had no definite reason for not doing so, it was neglected, and the long vacation came in—I should say it was certainly not delayed for the purpose of seeing what could be got out of the parties—I commenced an action against the prisoner in Jan., I think—I had written to him in the previous Aug.—I wrote to him with the sureties, at the same time I wrote to Mr. Cobham for the payment of the debt, and I think his answer was in Aug., one of the earliest days—the action was commenced on 3rd Jan.; we sent the writ down to Brighton on that day—we got judgment by default, probably about sixteen days afterwards—I did not go down till May, because I did not consider that the letter was true—I did not consider that a forgery had been committed, not even when I went down to arrest him—I took the policeman with me, because I went with instructions to give him into custody—it was a matter of opinion whether a forgery had been committed; my opinion was, that it was possible it might turn out that it had not—we have not sued any of the sureties, but we have written to them to get payment—I do not know of any offer of 80l. down, and these

proceedings to be stayed—I have not heard of any such offer—I know of nothing of the kind—I do not know that there was any definite reason for the length of time that elapsed before proceedings were taken, the thing slumbered—I cannot say that I was at all in hopes of getting paid—I took it up again in Jan. as a new transaction—I must have written to the parties before issuing the writ—I do not issue writs without writing letters previously.

JOSEPH RUSHBROOK . I am the attesting witness to the signature of Mr. Baxter to this deed. I recollect Mr. Baxter coming to the office, and executing that deed.

Cross-examined. Q. You have been fetched here as a witness, have you not? A. Yes; this is the first time I knew anything about being a witness, I never expected it—the gentleman who fetched me did not tell me what I was wanted for, only that I was to be a witness to one of the signatures; he said nothing to me about the body of the deed—the body of this deed is in my writing; it is partly written and partly printed—I cannot say whether the whole of the written part was filled in after the signature of Frederick Moul, James C. Moul, and George Cobham—I should say not, I should say it was put in before—as to this one of Baxter's, I can positively state that the deed was filled in before that signature was put to it—it is my positive opinion that it was all filled in before any of the signatures were affixed—nothing has been said to me about this—the clerk of Mr. Edwards fetched me, and told me I was to be a witness to the execution of the deed—I will give you one good reason for saying it was filled in before it was signed, and that is, you will find the word "Carrington" has been written in after the other part; we did not know that name, and therefore it was left blank, and upon their coming to the office that word was written in—there are no dates to the signatures.

Q. Can you account for the policy of 17th March, 1854, being recited in the body of the deed, when the deed is dated 10th March? A. That has been put in afterwards, after the signatures—there was an old policy which was assigned at the time, but that was a new one, it was not then completed, and it was put in afterwards—I cannot say as to whether that particular part was put in since the signature of Baxter; it is all in my own handwriting—I do not know Baxter, a person came and signed in that name—the word "Carrington" was not written at the same time as the other part, nor the words "17th March, 1854"—blanks were left in that part of the deed for that to be put in afterwards—I do not remember copying any portion of that policy from a previous one—it is possible that we may have had a previous policy with the name of James Carrington Moul to it, as a surety for his brother—we had a fresh proposal, and I should not go to the old papers to make out a new one—I am not sure about its being a fresh proposal, I only know it from the word "Carrington" being added.

COURT. Q. Are you speaking from memory? A. No, but from the appearance—when we fill in blanks, we spread the writing out to fill up the space, and you will find that this, instead of being written as close as the other part, is spread out to fill up the blank that had been left—I recollect Mr. Baxter coming to sign—he could scarcely write at all—he said his hand shook so, he could scarcely write his name—I do not know that these three persons put their signatures before the blanks were filled up—I only know that blanks were left, and filled up afterwards; I mean after the signatures—the other part must have been filled in before,

according to my impression—I do not know that it was so, but it is my impression that it must have been so, because we waited till the parties came, to ask them the name of Carrington, to fill in—I am not sure whether I was there when the parties came—it is my impression that they all came together, and when the name of Carrington was asked for, it was put before it was executed—it was most likely that it was put in before it was executed—what I have been saying is this, I believe the deed must have been previously filled up, before the signatures were affixed—that is what I have been saying all along—blanks were left for the name Carrington, and for the second policy—if the parties all came together, that would be put in before they signed—the regular course would be to fill in all the blanks before they signed—I do not know whether I was there when they came—I have no remembrance whether the deed was executed when it is dated—there is no one here from the office who can state that—the blank that was left for 17th March, 1854, was filled in afterwards—I cannot say whether it was after the signatures, but after the body of the deed was written—that is all I can say; whether it was after the signatures or not I cannot tell—I cannot tell positively whether it was filled in before the three parties signed the deed—it is my impression that the deed was written without the word "Carrington", and "17th March, 54, "and that those blanks were filled up before the parties executed it.

MR. PARRY. Q. You said just now your impression was that the signatures must have been filled up before the policy of 17th March? A. So I have said all along.

COURT. Q. Do you know whether it was filled in before the parties executed it? A. It is my impression that it was; not the 17th March, the word," Carrington, "I cannot say anything about the other words, because it is possible the policy might not be dated; the man might have to come and be examined some time after the loan was completed—it is possible that "17th March, 54", was filled in after the signatures; it might have been.

JAMES TERRY . I am a superintendent of police—I went with Mr. Edwards, and apprehended the prisoner at Brighton—he was given into my custody by Mr. Edwards, on a charge of forgery—I told him he was charged with forging the name of George Cobham to that document, (which was placed before him,) in connection with others, for the purpose of obtaining some money—he said, "It was not done to defraud the Company, and if they will give me time I will pay them"—he then had some conversation with Mr. Edwards, and soon after he stated that he was aware Mr. Cobham would not sign the document two or three days before it was signed, that a person named Williams had promised to become surety for him, and he supposed he must have signed Mr. Cobham's name instead of his own, and he believed Williams was gone to Australia.

(MR. PARRY submitted that the evidence given tended to invalidate the deed. MR. JUSTICE CROMPTON entertained great doubt whether it was a perfect deed at the time it was signed, and therefore such a deed as the parties intended it should be. MR. GIFFARD contended that as between the parties then executing it, it was a perfect deed, although it might not enable the Company to proceed against the securities afterwards. MR. PARRY stated that the prisoner's brother, James Carrington Moul, one of the parties to the deed, was a witness on the back of the bill, and requested that he might be called to clear up the mailer. MR. GIFFARD declining to call him, MR. JUSTICE CROMPTON directed him to be examined.)

JAMES CARRINGTON MOUL (examined by MR. PARRY). I am a brother

of the prisoner, and one of the sureties to this deed—I am a national-school master at East Wycomb, in Kent;—the signature of James Carrington Moul, to this deed, is mine—I went alone to sign it on Wednesday afternoon, 8th March—when I was called to sign the deed by Mr. Seeker, there was no writing at all upon it, and no wax at all—I told Mr. Seeker that I had called to sign the bond for 100l. for my brother—he told me it was not prepared, and if I signed I must sign it blank—I did sign it in blank—I put my name as it stands here, and there was then no other writing on the bond at all.

COURT. Q. Was not your brother's signature to it? A. No, there was no signature at all of anybody—I put my signature, and left the office—I resided in the country at that time.

MR. JUSTICE CROMPTON was of opinion that if the Jury thought from this evidence that there were blanks in the document at the time it was executed, then it was not in point of law a deed, which the prisoner was charged with forging. The JURY thought the evidence too doubtful.)


(There was another indictment against the prisoner, for which see page 556.)

NEW COURT.—Wednesday, September 19th, 1855.

PRESENT—Mr. Justice CROWDER; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., Ald.; Mr.


Before Mr. Justice Crowder and the Fifth Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-870

870. GEORGE BAILEY , stealing a post letter, containing 1 half sovereign, 1 sixpence, and 4 postage stamps; the property of the Postmaster-General: to which he


(William Waltham, a grocer, the prisoner's uncle; James Bay, a grocer, of Hammersmith; and James Bailey, the prisoner's brother, gave him a good character.)

Four Years' Penal Servitude .

Reference Number: t18550917-871

871. JOSEPH TEER , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Fisher, and stealing 120 yards of cloth, 50 yards of calico, and 1 coat, value 50l.; his goods.—2nd COUNT, feloniously receiving the same.

MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.

WILLIAM HARTING . I am shopman to Mr. Joseph Fisher, of Nos. 4 and 5, Brokers'-alley, Drury-lane—his shop door opens into the alley—the house is about ten yards from Charles-street. On Friday night, 10th Aug., I shut up the premises at 9 o'clock—I secured the shop, and a window that I afterwards found open—that was shut the night before—there were rolls of cloth hanging up to dry in a first floor room, over the shop—about 3 o'clock in the morning I fancied I heard a noise—I lay in bed till about 20 minutes before 4 o'clock—I then turned myself in bed, and sat up, and fancied I heard a noise again—I lay down again, and about 20 minutes past 4 o'clock, I heard a cab drive down Charles-street, which is about ten yards from the shop—the cab came down very slowly, and I heard some one unlock the shop door inside—I jumped out of bed, put the window up, and saw a man take a single piece of cloth to the cab—the cabman was holding the door open, and the man threw it in—I called out, "Cabman! stop thief!" as loud as I could halloo—the cabman, looked up at me, but still

kept the door in his hand, and there were four or five men brought a piece each, and chucked it into the cab, and slipped round the corner—when the last piece went into the cab, the cabman jumped on the box, and went off as fast as he could go—one man ran alongside the cab, and turned the handle of the door, to keep the goods from rolling out—when I saw that he was determined to drive away, I ran down two flights of stairs, to the ware-house—I had been on the second floor—I was in my shirt—when I got to the warehouse door the cab was just turning the corner of Castle-street, about 100 yards from the door—I ran after it till I got to Queen-street—I was making a noise all the time, and in Queen-street the policeman stopped the cab, just opposite the Freemason's Tavern—the prisoner is the man who had held the cab door, and afterwards drove away—some persons had joined me in running—I called out, and the driver must have heard me—he turned round and laughed—when I came up with him, I asked him what he was going to do with the cloth—he said a man had hired him to take it over the water—I looked at what was in the cab, and knew it as being my master's property—the prisoner was taken into custody, and we took the property down to Bow-street—I went back to my master's, and found some pieces had been removed out of the up stairs room down into the shop—there were two pieces below, and five had been taken away in the cab—my master afterwards saw them—the inspector afterwards examined the premises, and found the first floor window open, which had been safe overnight—if any one had got in at that window they could get into the shop, because I had left the key in the door—there were some lucifer matches, a crow bar, and a chisel found in the shop, which had not been there over-night—the house is in the parish of St. Martin in the Fields.

Cross-examined by MR. LAWRENCE. Q. You work for Mr. Fisher? A. Yes, and have done for three years—I always sleep on the premises—this cloth was in the first floor room—I sleep in the floor over it—at 20 minutes past 4 o'clock I heard the cab drive down Charles-street—I heard the clock go 4, and I heard it go 3—about 20 minutes past 3 o'clock I heard a noise, but I did not look out of the window till 20 minutes past 4 o'clock—the prisoner said he had been hired to take the cloth over the water, nothing else was said in my presence—I had examined the premises over night, and fastened up everything myself—a little boy was with me, who is now at home—the four men that I saw chucking the different pieces in, ran away—I did not see them for a second—one of them returned afterwards to the side of the cab, and fastened the door.

JOSEPH FISHER . I am a cloth presser, and live in Broker's-alley. I was awoke that morning about 20 minutes after 4 o'clock by my servant's cry of "Stop thief!"—I first looked out of the window, and saw the cabman get on his box—the prisoner is the man, he whipped his horse, and drove away as hard as he could tear—I went down with the last witness, and he followed the cab—I missed property—the amount of the property they had removed from the top room down to the shop door was about 300l.—they had only taken away five pieces, but they were worth about 50l.—twelve or thirteen pieces had been removed—I knew what was taken in the cab—the whole five pieces had my mark on them.

WILLIAM ABRAHAMS I am a labouring man. Early in the morning of 11th Aug. I was passing by Castle-street—I saw the first witness in his shirt running after the cab—he hallooed, "Stop thief!"—I waited some time till he got near to me—he was hallooing, "Stop cab!"—I could not make out what he said, and the caiman was hallooing out as well as he—

we followed together—I ran away from the man that was running, and over-took the cab—the policeman held his hand up—I took the horse by the head—I saw the face of the man who was driving the cab, he was hallooing as bad as I was—I did not see his face till I got to him—the prisoner is the man—he pulled off bis coat, and gave it to the man to put on—it was from 20 minutes to half past 4 o'clock—there were a good many people about the place, and a good many market carts—the cab was going at a middling pace—I could not understand till the first witness got near me what was said—not for the moment, the cab a noise, and there were different carts rattling about the street—there always are on Saturday—there is always a great deal of noise in Long-acre on market mornings—a good deal of traffic about.

JOSEPH BLACKLEY . I was a policeman. I was in Great Queen-street about 10 minutes or a quarter past 4 o'clock in the morning of 11th Aug.—the prisoner was driving a cab at a very good pace, coming towards me, while I was on duty—I saw a great many persons pursuing the cab, at least a dozen—the first witness was in his shirt—they were calling, "Stop thief!" and "Stop cabman!"—I heard that, and stopped the cab—the prisoner seemed in a very flurried state, and said, "The man has gone that way", pointing behind him—I did not understand what he meant till the first witness came up—I got on the cab, and ordered the prisoner to drive to the station—he there stated that he was employed to drive over the water—he was asked where, he said he did not know where.

Cross-examined. Q. Who asked him where? A. Mr. M'Kenzie, the inspector—I do not remember the first witness speaking to the prisoner—I saw by his manner that he did speak to him, but I did not hear distinctly what he said—I have not stated that I did hear what was said—I do not think I have said a word about this conversation with the inspector—this was 10 minutes or a quarter past 4 o'clock—the cab was going a very good pace—I cannot undertake to say at what speed it was going exactly.

MR. RYLAND. Q. There were four rolls of cloth found in the cab, which were given to Mr. Fisher? A. Yes.

ROBERT M'KKNZIE (police inspector). I was on duty at the station—the cab was brought there about half past 4 o'clock, and Harting and the last witness came—I explained to the prisoner the nature of the charge—he said he had taken a job from the Great Northern to the neighbourhood of Bow-street, for which he got a shilling, and that some man spoke to him near St. Giles's Church, and asked him to take a job over the water—I asked him where over the water, and he hung down his head and made no reply—I went and examined Mr. Fisher's premises—I found an entrance had been made by climbing up a waterspout, and opening the first floor window—the catch had been broken, and it was lying at the bottom—I found this jemmy lying in the premises, and the marks in the window corresponded in size with the jemmy with which the window had been prised open—I also found a chisel, and some lucifer matches.

JAMES FULLER . I was ostler to the prisoner at the time he was taken into custody—he kept a cab of his own and two horses—I went to his premises on 11th Aug., about a quarter before 6 o'clock; he was not there, nor his cab or horse—he sometimes went out at 8 o'clock, sometimes at 6 o'clock—I have known him to go out at 4 o'clock—sometimes he told me on the over night to come in the morning, and sometimes he did not—I had seen him on the night before, but I did not speak to him—I was in a public house, and he was in front of the bar.

ELISABETH WILSON . I and my husband reside in Castle-street, Long-acre. On 11th Aug. I had been up all night, as my husband was ill, and abort 20 minutes after 4 o'clock I heard a cab come down the street—I looked, and saw the cab and cobman—the cab stopped at the corner of Brokers'-alley, just by my door—I saw Mr. Harting come from Mr. Fisher's, and I heard him cry, "Stop thief!" and "Stop cab!" and two minutes afterwards the cab drove off—I did not hear anybody speak to the cabman—I heard Mr. Harting and Mr. Fisher call out.

GEORGE FRANCIS CHILDS . I am a brewer's man. About 4 o'clock that morning I was up to go to work—while I was washing myself, I heard a cab come down and stop opposite my house, against Mrs. Wilson's door—I saw the prisoner driving the cab, and other persons running after it.

(James Harrison, a butcher of Whitecross-street, and Thomas Newman, a tailor, near Oxford-street, gave the prisoner a good character.)

GUILTY on the 2nd Count. † Aged 40.— Four Years' Penal Servitude .

THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, September 19th, 1855.


Before Russell Gvrney, Esq., and the Seventh Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-872

872. JOHN THOMAS, alias Hackett, and ROBERT HACKETT , stealing 10 ozs. of vanille, 3 lbs. weight balsam of copaiba, and other articles, value 3l. 14s.; the goods of Charles Yexley.

MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.

RICHARD WALKER . I am a cab proprietor, and live at No. 4, Prince's-terrace, Keppel-street, Chelsea. On 17th Aug., about 8 o'clock in the evening, I was on Pelham-crescent stand, standing outside a cab on the near side, the rank is on the off side—it was twilight—I saw the prisoner and another man; John was driving a cart, and the other two were at the side of it—I saw the younger prisoner and the man who is not here, take a box off the tail of a carrier's cart which was passing; they put it on their cart, and then they turned round, and the carrier was getting off the cart—I said, "Quick, quick!" and John drove away, and the other two ran off in different directions—the younger prisoner first grabbed at the cart to get on it, but missed his hold—the carrier ran at the horse's head, but could not stop him, and then turned after the younger prisoner up Pelham-crescent; but he escaped—I have no doubt of the prisoners being the men, there was no other vehicle to impede my view.

Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. This was done momentarily? A. Yes—I never saw the younger prisoner again till a week afterwards; that was at the police court, Kennington-lane.

CHARLES YEXLEY . I am a carrier, of Wimbledon. On Friday, 17th Aug., about 8 o'clock, or half-past, I was driving my cart along the Brompton-road, and suddenly felt that something was taken from the tail of it—I looked round and saw two men in the road carrying a chest—I pulled up my horse, leaped off and followed the cart, as the chest was on the foot board, and then followed one of the men who had taken the chest; to the

best of my belief it was the younger prisoner—the box contained drugs belonging to John Aubrey, chemist, of Putney.

Cross-examined. Q. You saw Robert Hackett, the younger prisoner, next at the police court, Kennington-lane? A. Yes—I was not at my horse's head on this night, I was trotting on at the rate of six or seven miles an hour—it is a tilted cart.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. Where did you see Robert? A. In the cell; with eight or ten prisoners—I recognised him, and pointed him out as the person who, to the best of my belief, I had followed.

JOSEPH LORNES (policeman, L 40). On Friday evening, 17th Aug., I was on duty with Clifford, in Kennington-lane, at a little after 10 o'clock at night, and saw both the prisoners, and a third man—Robert was driving a cart on the other side of the road, and John and the third man were at the back of a waggon, which was standing about thirty yards from the cart—I saw them take a bale of goods from the tail of the waggon, go across the road and put it into the cart—I spoke to my brother constable, and immediately went and laid hold of the horse's head—while I was doing so, John Hackett was cutting at me with the whip—as I was getting into the cart, he and the man not in custody got out—I was knocked down with a life preserver, and then they ran to Clifford, and began beating him about the head with a life preserver—I immediately got up again, got into the cart, and as I got in John Hackett got out at the back—Robert escaped after getting out of the cart—the prisoners were right under a gas light, and I had full opportunity of seeing them—I have no doubt they are two of the three men I saw—I saw Robert eight or nine days afterwards, about 1 o'clock in the morning, in the Borough-road, and took him into custody—he was with a female; and as I went up to take him, I heard him say to her, "I know the br wants me——"—I laid hold of him and told him I wanted him for being concerned with his brother, for a robbery on the 17th—he made no reply—John was taken that night.

Cross-examined. Q. How old are you? A. Twenty-one—I have been in the force nine months—this is not the first matter I have had—I had one a few weeks ago, Mr. Moseley's case—I was on duty—this took place at a little after 10 o'clock, it was not a quarter after 10 o'clock, it was about 10 minutes past—my attention was first attracted by seeing the horse and cart on the other side, and John Hackett and the other man at the tail of the waggon—the box was off in a second, and into the cart—they tried to get away, and two of them succeeded in getting away that night—I went to the horse's head first—I did not go from there to the back—it was not a rap on the head, but on the back that I got—I had left the horse's head to get into the cart—my brother officer had hold of the horses head then—it was on 30th Aug, or 1st Sept., that I took Robert—I had been to his fathers house to make inquiries on the fourth day after it occurred, and I found that Robert Hackett is a ticket of leave man—Clifford did not go with me then—Robert went quite quietly with me.

CHARLES CLIFFORD . On Friday night, 17th Aug., I was with Lornes, at 10 o'clock, or a little after, and saw John Hackett and another man take a bale of goods off the tail of a carrier's waggon, and convey it to a cart on the opposite side of the road in which Robert Hackett was sitting—that cart was a very short distance from a gas light, and which afforded me light to see the man in the cart—we went across—I took hold of the horse's head, and we both endeavoured to get up in the cart, to get possession of the reins, but John Hackett assaulted me violently in the face with his fist—I had not

known the men before—I was also struck over the head with a life preserver, and very much damaged—John was secured, and the other two escaped—I was present on the following Thursday morning, 30th Aug., when Robert was taken into custody by Lornes—before he was taken, I heard him any to the woman, "I know the b——rs want me"—I at that time recognized him as the person I had seen on the Friday night—I am certain that he is the man who was in the cart on that occasion.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to the father's house? A. No—when Lornes took Robert, I think he said that he took him for being concerned "with others", not "with your brother."

John Hackett's Defence. I acknowledge one robbery, but deny committing any assault whatever; I am innocent of this.


JOSEPH NOAKES . I am a luncheon-house keeper. Robert Hackett has been in my service twelve months, and was so day by day up to the time of his apprehension—I always found him steady and honest in every way—his hours were from 9 o'clock in the morning to 7 o'clock at night, except Saturday, when he left at 9 or 10 o'clock—I have entrusted him with money, and sent him to different banks with, cheques—he has always brought them back all right.

Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Where is your luncheon house? A. No. 2, Cullum-street, near Fenchurch-street—I received no character with him when I took him—his mother used to come to my place to buy pieces of broken glass—he has been in my employ, without interruption, twelve months.

COURT. Q. You say that his hours were from 9 to 7 o'clock; were they regularly adhered to? A. Yes—he never left before 7 o'clock, as far as I know.

MRS. IVORY. I am a dressmaker; my husband is horse keeper to a cab proprietor. I know Robert Hackett—he has been in the habit of keeping company with my daughter rather more than twelve months, and was at our house every evening—he has not missed one evening for four or five months—he used to come about 8 o'clock, and sometimes 7 o'clock, and stayed till between 11 and 12 o'clock—I particularly recollect 17th Aug.—my attention was called to it on the 25th—Robert Hackett heard of it himself on the 25th, and told my daughter, and she told me—I can swear that he was not out of our house on 17th Aug. from 8 o'clock to a little after 12 o'clock—I recollect it, because I was making a dress for a person whom I bad not worked for for twenty years, and I sat up—my husband went to bed at half past, and Robert stopped to keep my daughter company, who was helping me make it—he always seemed a very steady lad, and very quiet—my daughter is not here—she is at her work—my son is here—my husband cannot leave his work.

Cross-examined. Q. Where do you live? A. At No. 3, Williams'-rents, Commercial-road—my husband has kept the house for three years—I have known Robert Hackett nearly three years—I became acquainted with him because he used to come to a person next door to me, named Black, who works at the Docks now—he was a ship's carpenter, but has lost his sight; and Mrs. Hackett used to live in the house I now live in—I did not know her also; I only saw her once before Robert was apprehended—we did not take the house of her—there was a tenant between—I did not know her, or any of the brothers—I saw Robert in company with John on the Sunday before Whitsuntide, when they came to our house together—Robert was

paying his addresses to ray daughter at that time—they came early in the evening—they did not come to take tea—they were there a couple of hours, and went away together—my daughter and my husband are not here—there is no one else here from the house but my son—I first gave evidence in this matter on Saturday, 1st Sept., at Lambeth police court—I saw the solicitor there—neither my son, my husband, or my daughter were there I had a conversation with the solicitor before I went into the police court—he took down what I told him, and also what my son could say—my husband was not examined, nor my daughter—we have no lodgers in the house—nobody lives there except those I have told you of—Robert Hackett was at our house every evening for the last four or five months—he never missed at all—the lady I was making the dress for is a friend of mine, at Kennington—Robert knows her too, and is in the habit of visiting her—she does not live near Kennington-lane—I am not compelled to tell you what part of Kennington it is, and I shall not tell you.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Will you tell me? A. No.

COURT. It will quite destroy the effect of your evidence if you refuse to answer. Witness. I have lost a great deal of work by my name being made public, and am pointed at in the street, and that is the reason my daughter is not here.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Will you write down the name on paper? A. No.

COURT. It shall not be made public. Witness. I will not—I have lost part of my work through it being made public, and I have ten children to support—I can tell you in what relation the person stands; she is my first husband's brother's wife—I had not seen her for some time—we live some distance off, and she asked me to make the dress for her—she was not present on this evening—she very seldom comes to my house—Robert Hackett has been two or three times with my daughter, to take tea with her.

MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long is it since she has been at your house? A. Nearly two months—she is not a relative of both the prisoners, as Robert Hackett is not married to my daughter—I know that he has been for the last twelve months with Mr. Noakes, of Culluni-street—he sometimes comes a little before 8 o'clock; I do not think it is ever after 8 o'clock—I know that he came on Friday, 17th, at 8 o'clock, because—I was busily engaged all the evening—he came before 8 o'clock that night—I know that, because my daughters were not at home, and they leave their work about half part 7 or 8 o'clock—I have five daughters and five sons—they all live at home with me, but two girls and a boy go out to work—ten live in the house with us, and are with us of an evening, and the elder ones were so that evening—the six younger ones were in bed before 7 o'clock—my two daughters came home from work, and one son was at home—one little girl went to bed about 8 o'clock; after Robert Hackett came in—she is not here—she is fourteen years old—Robert Hackett went away at a little before 12 o'clock that night—I know that, because I went to bed then—I did not leave him there; it is not likely—he left the house before I went to bed.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do your eldest daughters go out to get their living? A. Yes—they are mantle makers for a large firm in the City—the one to whom Robert is paying his addresses is in delicate health, and this has made her very ill—my husband is at work to-day—I have no interest in this matter more than speaking the truth; on the contrary, I have considerably damaged my business by coming forward—I went to the Police

Court on 1st Sept, and tendered my evidence, because I knew he was innocent, and so did my son—we were both examined there.

JAKES IVORY . I was examined before the Magistrate—I know Robert Hackett—I saw him on 17th Aug.—he came between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening, and stopped till about 12 o'clock—he was in the habit of coming night after night to visit my sister—he was at our house very regularly every night—he is a very inoffensive young man, and is honest and straightforward—I never saw him keep company with any lads.

Cross-examined. Q. How often have you seen him in company with his brother, John? A. About six months ago, I think—I went with him to John's house, which was then behind a church in the Waterloo-road—it was just about tea time, about 5 o'clock—I had been taking a walk with Robert during the whole of the afternoon; it was on a Sunday—I saw John—I stopped about two hours—I never went there with Robert on any other occasion—I have never been walking with Robert and John—that is the only time I have seen him—he has never visited at my mother's house but once, and that was the same evening as I went to his house—John and Robert walked home with me—we all three went to my mother's—he did not stay there above five minutes—(MRS. IVORY. That is false)—if my mother has sworn that he staid there for a couple of hours, that is not true—I am at Mr. Smith's, a brush finisher, in Osborne-street—I have lived with him ten months—I never was in a Court of Justice about any other matter.

MR. ROBINSON. Q. When you came home on this Sunday, did you remain at home? A. I was there about a quarter of an hour, and then went to bed—I cannot exactly recollect whether John was there at the time I went to bed.

JOHN HACKETT . I am the father of the prisoners—Robert lives at home with me—I was an officer of the City for twenty-nine years, and am receiving a pension from the City of 3s. a week—Robert bears an honest, upright, good character, I will pledge my word and my life—he has been in the habit of sleeping at home every night—he receives 6s. a week wages and his food, and allows his mother half a crown for his bed and his Sunday's dinner—as for making use of bad language, I never heard him.

MR. SLEIGH to JAMES IVORY. Q. You say that you work for Mr. Smith, a brush maker, in Osborne-street, Whitechapel, do you work for him at this present time? A. Yes—I am articled to him in the name of James Ivory—I see that policeman standing there, and in his presence I persist in the statement that I am working for a brush maker named Smith—I have been working there ten months, and am working there still.

COURT to CHARLES CLIFFORD. Q. Have you ascertained whose cart it is? A. The prisoner, John, owns it—"Lloyd, John-street", is on it—I have been there.

ROBERT HACKETT— GUILTY . Aged 35.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Three Months .


John Hackett was further charged with having been before convicted: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY. Aged 20.— Six Years' Penal Servitude .

(There were two other indictments against the prisoners.)

Reference Number: t18550917-873

873. HENRY HOLLAND , unlawfully obtaining 1s., the moneys of Henry Murphy, by false pretences: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Month .

OLD COURT.—Thursday, September 20th, 1855.


Before Mr. Justice Crompton and the Third Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-874

874. FREDERICK MOUL was again indicted (see page 542) for unlawfully obtaining money by false pretences.

MESSRS. GIFFARD and REES conducted the Prosecution, and MR. PARRY the Defence.

(The evidence in the previous case was read over to the witnesses, and acknowledged by them to be correct. No other evidence was tendered.)


Before Mr. Justice Crompton and the Fourth Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-875

875. THOMAS LANDS, alias WHITE , unlawfully obtaining goods within three months of his bankruptcy, with intent to defraud. 2nd COUNT, for concealing goods, with intent to defraud his creditors.

HENRY MACKRELL . I am assistant to Mr. Austin, a messenger in Bank-ruptcy. I produce the proceedings in the bankruptcy of Thomas Lands alias White—they bear the seal of the Court—(The following documents were read: the petition for adjudication, dated 3rd April, 1855, of Henry Rooksby, of Irthling borough, Northampton, boot and shoe manufacturer; the adjudication, of the same date, by Mr. Commissioner Holroyd, and the balance sheet of the bankrupt, by which it appeared that his debts were 6,061l. 16s. 2d., and that his purchases in the months of Sept., Oct., Nov., and Dec., 1854, amounted to 4,345l. A certified copy of the prisoner's petition to the Insolvent Court was also put in, filed, 27th Feb., 1855; also a certified copy of hit schedule, dated 9th March, 1855, by which it appeared that his losses on the sale of his stock was 1,420l.; it also contained the names of the persons firm whom he had purchased goods, among whom were Mr. Langley and Mr. Rooksby: the former supplying goods between 1st Dec., 1854, and 15th Jan. 1855, to the amount of 234l. 7s. 2d., and the latter between 14th Dec., 1854, and 4th Jan., 1855,to the amount of 145l. 8s. 9d.)

JOHN DREWETT AUSTIN . I am a messenger in Bankruptcy, attached to the Court of Mr. Commissioner Fane. I was engaged in the bankruptcy proceedings against the defendant—on 4th April, 1855, I had a search warrant placed in my hands—this is it—I executed it on the premises of William Stratton, of Sekforde-street, and Woodbridge-street, Clerken well—one portion of the house is in Sekforde-street, and the other portion in Woodbridge-street—I proceeded to search the premises, and in a back kitchen I found a large quantity of boots and shoes, chiefly packed in hampers—there was a portion not packed—there was also some unworked up leather—I think nearly the whole of the hampers appeared as if they had never been unpacked—many of them had labels on them—these (produced) are some of the labels—I brought away six, there were more there—I took these myself from the hampers that had not been unpacked—I think there must have been thirty or forty hampers, the greater portion of them appeared never to have been unpacked—there were also some boots and shoes put up in piles in a portion of the room—I had all the goods removed, and they were afterwards sold by the assignees.

CHARLES EDWARD LEWIS . I am the attorney for this prosecution, and also for the assignees. I was present at the bankrupt's examination before

Mr. Commissioner Fane—the prisoner is the person—he signed each sheet of his examination in my presence—(the bankrupt's examination was here read in part; it contained a detailed account of hit business transactions, and with respect to the goods found on the premises of Mr. Stratton, in Sekforde-street, he stated that they belonged to a Mr. Matthews, with whom he had had dealings for some time; that Matthews had lent him money, and he had deposited the goods with him as security, and given him the key of the premises.)

JOHN MATTHEWS . I am a saddler and harness maker, of No. 16, Market-place, Margate. I know the defendant—I first became acquainted with him not more than two or three years ago—I knew of his becoming bank-rupt in April this year—I did not know it till I was subpoenaed to the Bankruptcy Court—I did not see the defendant there, I had not seen him since the early part of June, 1853—I never lent him any money—I never took any goods from him in pledge, nor agreed to do so—I never took any security for money from him—I did not know anything of these goods in Clerkenwell—I do not know a person named Stratton—I do not know the house where these goods were found, it has not been pointed out to me—I do not know the neighbourhood at all—the defendant never gave me the key of those premises—I never deposited, or had deposited, any goods in those premises for me or on my account.

HENRY ROOKSBY . I am a boot and shoe manufacturer, at Irthling borough, Northampton shire. I know the defendant—I have had two transactions with him—the first was on 14th Dec.—he came to me inquiring for goods—he said he was a shoe seller, in High-street, Camden-town—he asked for goods, but I had none of those he wanted in stock—he said he had got the money in his pocket to pay for anything be bought—he said he was doing a large business—he gave an unlimited order—that was when he accepted the bill for the first amount—he bought goods to the amount of 100l. 5s.—they were sent to him about two days afterwards—I believe he was at my place again on the 12th—I supplied him with more goods on 4th Jan., 1855—the last lot I supplied him with was upwards of 40l.—both the lots were packed in hampers—the first lot was in two hampers, and the second in one—I afterwards saw those hampers in Sekforde-street, on the Thursday before Good Friday, I went there with Mr. Austin, and was these at the time of the search—I opened the last hamper I had sent—I believe it had not been unpacked, it appeared as if the string had never been cut—I do not know whether the label was on it—it corresponded with the number of the hamper that I sent, and my own name and address was printed upon it—I could swear to the goods, they bore my stamp, and were the sort of goods that were ordered—I also found the other two hampers there—they appeared as if they had been opened—they contained the goods I had sent, they had my stamp upon them—they were in the cellar or kitchen at Stratton's.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. The last lot of goods supplied on 4th Jan. was, I suppose, in accordance with the order given on 14th Dec.? A. No, it was an order sent to me at the time he accepted the bill for the first goods—this is it (produced)—it is an unlimited order—the bill was dated on the 27 with and this came about 28th Dec—I dispatched the goods on 4th Jan.

WILLIAM LANGLEY . I am a boot and shoe manufacturer, at Finedon, Northamptonshire—I am a creditor under the bankruptcy for 222l. 10s. 8d.—I supplied the bankrupt with goods in Dec.—I think I sent him six hampers, on the 1st, 4th, 18th, 22nd, and 26th—there were two on the 1st—I also sent him goods in Jan., on the 1st, 8th, and 18th, one hamper

each time—he came to my house on 28th or 29th Nov., 1854—he said he wanted part of the goods for a shipping order, and part for shop trade—I went with Mr. Austin to the place in Sekforde-street—I found one of my hampers there, and only one—it contained goods belonging to me, that I had sent up—it had a label on it—it is one of those produced—I believe that hamper was sent in Dec.—the goods I sent in Jan. were common kid Bluchers—it was all included in the order he gave me on 28th or 29th Nov.—I found a good many pairs of split Clarence boots in Sekforde-street—they were a part of the very last goods I had sent—they were piled up, not in a hamper, with a few split Bluchers, and with a great many other manufacturer's goods—altogether there were sixty-two hampers of boots and shoes, four waggon loads—the hamper that this label belonged to, I think, had not been opened at all; the label was still upon it—Mr. Austin cut it off.

WILLIAM STRATTON . I am a carman of No. 16A, Woodbridge-street, Clerkenwell. The house is in Woodbridge-street, and the gateway is in Sekforde-street—I do not know the defendant—I see the man—I first saw him at Mr. Hickson's, in Smithfield—I think it was a little after Christmas—I do not know just the day—I went to Mr. Hickson's with some goods—those goods came out of Tarling and Mead's yard in St. John-street—they are hay salesmen—I do not know where the premises lead to—I fetched the goods myself from Tarling and Mead's yard—I do not know who it was told me to go and fetch them; I was not at home at the time—I did not see the prisoner with the goods—I was out, and as I came home I had an order to move some goods—I went to Mr. Hickson's to deliver some goods—I had orders to deliver some goods there—I did not deliver them for any one in particular—I did not see the party—I saw the defendant at Mr. Hickson's when I was delivering the goods there—he did not give me any direction about the goods to my knowledge—I had directions to go from there to Wilcoxon's, of Monument-yard, and there I delivered a portion of goods—the prisoner gave me those directions—I believe he is the man—I do not know it—if he is the man that was there, he is the man that gave me the directions—I have no doubt of his being the man—that was the last time I saw him until I saw him at the Mansion House—I did not see him again in Jan.—I did not see him after that time until I saw him at the Bankruptcy Court—in Jan. or about Christmas time, some one came to my premises to inquire about taking a warehouse—it was not early in Jan.; I think it was somewhere about the middle—I did not see who came; I was not at home—I heard of it—I did not see the prisoner after that—I told you when I saw him first—there was part of a large warehouse taken—that was a part of my premises—nothing was said afterwards by anybody about taking the kitchen—I cannot read writing (looking at his deposition at the Bankruptcy Court)—I believe this is something like my mark—I was examined at the Bank-ruptcy Court—something was read over to me—they asked me if I knew the prisoner; I told them I did not know anything of him—they asked me questions in respect of moving the goods, and I said I moved the goods—those are the goods that we have been speaking of—I did not move them to my house—what I took away from Tarling and Mead's yard was delivered at Mr. Hickson's and at Mr. Wilcoxon's, of Monument-yard—I remember some goods being found in my kitchen in April—I fetched those goods from Tarling and Mead's yard—that was about Christmas time, all about Christmas time—I dare say they were all fetched in about three weeks or

a month, or something like that—I fetched them in to my place—three weeks after Christmas would cover the time that I fetched them in—I do not think I fetched in all the goods that were found in my place—I fetched three or four different loads from St. John-street—I fetched two little lots from Camden-town; I think it was High-street—I do not know the premises—I know the premises, but I do not know the name of the person belonging to them—I cannot tell the name that was on the door—it was No. 60 odd, I know, in High-street—I cannot say whether the name of White was over the door, as I am no scholar—it was a shoe shop.

CHARLES MOORE . I am a carver and gilder, in St. John-street. I am landlord of the premises, No. 29, St. John-street, occupied by the bankrupt—the back of my premises goes into Tarling and Mead's yard—we have a right of way through there—the occupier of the premises can have carts and vans there—there is a passage which comes down from the premises in front, communicating with Tarling and Mead's yard—my rent was in arrear in Jan. last, and I was obliged to put in a distress—I saw the prisoner on the subject, a week or so before, and applied for my rent—it was within a week of Christmas—four quarters' rent was due—there would have been five quarters due at Christmas—he said he could not sell his goods; the markets were so bad he was fearful he should be made a bankrupt, but there were plenty of goods for me—I was afterwards obliged to levy lor my rent.

MR. LEWIS re-examined. I have examined the prisoner's schedule in the Insolvent Court—he does not place Mr. Matthews down as a creditor, nor is his name in any way mentioned—I examined the copy of the schedule that has been produced—Mr. Matthews has not attempted to prove any debt in the Court of Bankruptcy, nor is his name entered in the prisoner's balance sheet there.

(MR. BALLANTINE submitted that there was no proof of any act of bank-ruptcy; the only attempt at proof was the production of the copy of the petition to the Insolvent Court; but that was not coupled with any identifycation of the defendant as the party presenting that petition. MR. BODKIN contended that the identity was dearly established by the examination of the defendant at the Bankruptcy Court, in which his petition to the Insolvent Court was alluded to. MR. JUSTICE CROWDER was of opinion that there wassufficient evidence for the Jury on that point, but entertained some doubt as to whether the time of filing the petition was proved, that being made the act of bankruptcy. MR. BALLANTINE also submitted that it was necessary that a copy of the Gazette should be put in. MR. JUSTICE CROWDER was not aware that it was absolutely necessary, although it was usually done. MR. BALLANTINE further submitted, with reference to the subject matter of the indictment, that there was no evidence of the defendant having obtained goods within three months of his bankruptcy, the orders given by him being beyond that period. MR. JUSTICE CROWDER thought it would depend upon the meaning of the word "obtain", whether it might or might not be said to commence with the order, and finish with the possession; he would consider the objection, and reserve the point for consideration: there was one objection that had occurred to his own mind, viz., whether under this act a party did not commit an act of bankruptcy when he obtained the goods; this point he would also reconsider. MR. BALLANTINE did not address the Jury on the facts.)

GUILTY . Aged 34.— Judgment Reserved.

NEW COURT.—Thursday, September 20th, 1855.


Before Mr. Justice Crowder, and the Sixth Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-876

876. HENRY WATTS was indicted for the wilful murder of Sarah Watts.—He was also charged on the Coroner's Inquisition with the like offence.

MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

THOMAS BRAMPTON . I am in the employ of the Great Western Railway. On the 14th July I was in the beer shop of the prisoner, No. 21, Spring-street, Paddington—just after 4 o'clock I saw the prisoner and his wife inside the bar—the little boy was there, crying—the prisoner had a cane in his hand, and he wanted to strike the boy—Mrs. Watts said, "No, you shall not strike him"—the little boy made his escape down stairs, and Mrs. Watts said to the prisoner, "It would be more to your credit to send him to school, as you ought to do, instead of keeping him at home"—on her saying that, the prisoner struck her twice with the cane across the shoulders—he was the worse for liquor—I said, "Mr. Watts, you are no man, for striking a woman"—he asked what odds it was to me—I said it made no difference to me what passed between a man and his wife, but I did not like to see a man strike a woman—he stepped up to her, and said, "I will be d——d if I don't kill you"—I said, "Not in my presence, you will not"—he made a bolt down stairs, and shut the door after him, and Mrs. Watte was left in the bar by herself—the stairs that the prisoner went down go down into the kitchen—they were the same stairs the little boy had gone down—Mrs. Watts came outside the bar—I said to her, "Don't cry, Mrs. Watts"—she had before served me with some beer—she was not the least the worse for liquor—after I had my beer I went out, and left her in the bar—I never saw any more of her.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You say the prisoner was the worse for liquor?A. Yes—this striking with the cane was a sudden thing—he wanted to beat the boy—he did not say anything about the boy taking money out of the till—Mrs. Watts was a middle sized woman, not particularly large—I am sure he did not make use of the expression, "I am d——d if I don't kill you" to me—I am quite certain of that—what he had was a cane about the size of your finger, a little yellow cane.

MR. CLERK. Q. You have been asked whether the blows were given in a hurry; how often was she struck? A. He took hold of her arm with one hand, and struck her twice with the cane, as hard as he could.

ALFRED HOULSTON . I am a confectioner; I live at Paddington. I knew the deceased Sarah Watts and her husband—on Saturday, 14th July, 1 went to their house in Spring-street, about 20 minutes before 4 o'clock—I was in the parlour which joins the bar—while there I heard a noise in the bar—I heard Mr. Watts's son crying, and his wife scream—I came out into the bar—I heard the prisoner's wife say to him, "Don't hurt Billy"; or "Don't hit Billy", I cannot be positive which—the prisoner had not anything in his hand—he pushed his wife out of the bar by forcing the door against her, to make her go out of the bar—that door goes on to a landing place, to which the staircase comes down from upstairs—the prisoner succeeded in forcing her out of the bar, and shut the door, and he remained in

the bar—I went back to the parlour, and some time afterwards I heard a woman screaming, whom I supposed to be Mrs. Watts, and something like a severe push or a fall against the wainscot—the parlour adjoins the bar, and the staircase comes down at the back of that parlour—I should say the screams came from the door at the foot of the stairs, at the back of the bar—on hearing those screams and fall, I went out into the bar—I attempted to go to that door which leads on to the staircase—the prisoner prevented me—he said I had no right to interfere—he held the door and would not allow me to go any farther—he said I had no right—I did not see anything on the other side of the door—the prisoner said she was a d—d bitch, and he would do for her—after he told me not to interfere, I went back to the parlour, and finished my letter that I was writing—I left the house about ten minutes afterwards—the next day, the 15th, I called at the house at 5 or 10 minutes after 1 o'clock—I saw the prisoner—I told him it was a great pity he had used his wife so, or words to that effect—he told me I knew nothing about it, that his wife had been drinking gin all day long with some porters belonging to the Railway, and a Mrs. Browning, and that she was drunk, and had fallen down stairs, which was the cause of her being injured—I had observed on the previous day, when I was at the her, the state the prisoner was in—I think he was drunk—when the woman brought me in the writing materials, and some ale that I had, the compliments of the season passed between us, that was all—she was in a state of perfect sobriety.

Cross-examined by MR. FRANCIS. Q. How long had you been at the house before you heard anything? A. About five minutes—I was writing a letter—there is a slight partition of wood, I believe, between the bar and the parlour—I had been in the habit of using that house, oocasionally the prisoner himself waited on me there, at other times his wife and his child—I did not see the child in the bar on this occasion—I did not see any cane—all I heard was the expression, "Don't hurt" or "hit Billy"—that was the son—I do not know whether that was his name—when I saw the prisoner on the Sunday, I said, "It is reported that you struck your wife"—he said, "In striking the child I may have struck her with the cane, but it was not intentionally"—when he used the expression about doing for her, he was in an excited state, very much so—he appeared to have been drinking that day.

JOHN KENDALL . I live at Knightsbridge. On Saturday, 14th July, I called at No. 21, Spring-street, about 4 o'clock—there was no one in the bar—I saw a child, a girl, standing just out of the bar, at the foot of the stairs, crying—the next thing I saw was a woman fall at the bottom of the stairs—she was at the foot of the stairs, with her head against the wainscot—I do not think I was there more than two minutes altogether—it was almost instantly—she came down very suddenly, and fell flat—seeing her fall, I stepped forward to assist her—I then saw the prisoner—he came forwards into the bar, and shut the door after him, which divided the staircase from the bar—he had come down stairs—I requested him to allow me to go and assist the woman—he had come forward before I stepped to her, and had shut the door after him to prevent my going—I requested him to allow me to pick the woman up—he told me it was his affair, not mine, and requested me to have nothing to do with it—he said it was his wife—I told him I had known him when he was a child—he said, "Very well, this is my affair, not yours; I beg you will not interfere"—I saw the last witness

—he came from a room adjoining the bar—he came into the bar—I did not see any more of the woman—I did not hear any scream.

Cross-examined by MR. FRANCIS. Q. You could see the place where she fell? A. I did not see the stairs—I could see the landing at the bottom of the stairs—I cannot tell whether the prisoner was on the stairs, but he came down immediately afterwards—they are winding stairs, but I should not suppose she fell further than from the first landing—a person on the winding part could not see the place where the woman fell, without they turned their head—this appeared a very violent fall—I did not see her head strike against any thing, but it must have struck against the door post, or the wainscot—there was not sufficient length for her—I knew the prisoner before—I knew him when he was a child, about twelve years old, but not afterwards—he did not recognise me at all—I examined the stairs a few days afterwards, and found the banister gone from near the top of the first landing—I did not count the steps to that place, I should fancy about eight or nine.

SARAH BROWNING . I am now living with my husband, at No. 32, Market-street, Edgware-road. I did lodge in the house kept by the prisoner when this happened—on the day this happened I heard a noise, which attracted my attention, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I heard screams, and a very heavy fall—I was then sitting in the front parlour with my husband—I went out of my room in consequence of what I heard—I found Mrs. Watts lying on the floor, at the foot of the stairs—she was screaming—her head was about half a foot from the passage door—the little boy and little girl were crying—I tried to raise her up—I was not able—I saw the prisoner on the stairs, I asked him to come and help me up with her, but he would not—he said, "I will have nothing to do with her"—my husband was at home, and I had a sister there—I called to my sister, and she and I were not able to get her up—I called to my husband, and he came, and we three got her up on her feet, and helped her the best way we could into my room, the back parlour, which I used as a bed room—it is on the same floor as the bar—we laid her down on the bed—after we placed her there, the prisoner came down stairs, and followed her into my room, and he tried to reach over me to strike her—he appeared to be tipsy—we got him out of the room—he came in again about two hours after, into the front and back parlours, he came into both the rooms—before he was put out of the room the first time, the deceased was crying, and holding her head, and just as he went out of the room she said, "Oh, Watts! what have I done to deserve this?"—I do not think he heard that, he was just out of the room—she might not know that he was out—nothing more passed at that time—in two hours afterwards he came into the front room—she was in the back room—the door was open—he came in with his two hands clenched, and said", Where is the d——d b—h?" and he said he would kill her—he tried to get into the back parlour—I was in the front parlour, I begged him not to go in, as she was trying to go to sleep—I took him by the two wrists and tried to prevent his going in, but he pushed by the sofa, and got into the back room—I still held him—he got one of his hands loose from mine, and tried to strike her—he struck at her, but did not strike her, because I pulled him back by the other arm—he said she was drunk, and not fit to live, and he would do for her—he called her Irish, and not fit to live—to the best of my recollection, that was the expression—ho said she was not fit to live, and the sooner she was dead the better—I persuaded him

not to strike her, not to ill treat her—I said, "You have ill treated her enough already, and too much I fear"—she then said, "Oh, Henry! What have I done to deserve this? you cruel man to serve me so"—he said "You are drunk, and not fit to live"—she said, "I am not drunk, the fell has upset my stomach, that has made me sick"—she had been sick frequently while she laid on my bed—in what she threw up I did not notice any smell of liquor, not the slightest—he then turned to me, and said, "You are drunk, and have been giving her gin"—I said, "I am not drunk; I have given her no gin; I have not seen any spirits for a fortnight; I have given her nothing but cold water or tea"—he said she should not stay in my room—she said, "Let me stay till I am better, I will come"—I said, "Let her stay till she is better, don't disturb her now"—I got him out, and he went back into the front room—my husband was there at work—he is a tailor—my husband persuaded him to go out, and let her abide where she was—I cannot say exactly bow long she lay in that state after he was induced to go out of the room—it might be half an hour, or an hour—she then said she was better, and she would go up and lay on her own bed—the servant had persuaded her to go before, and she said she would when she was better—she did not sleep in a room over mine—it is a sort of double house—her room is on the first floor—when she left my room to go up stairs, I went up about three steps, and asked her if I should assist her—she said, "No, I shall do nicely now, thank you Mrs. Browning"—when she got to the top, she looked over the balustrade, and said, "I shall do nicely now"—I returned to my room—after that, I heard screams, up stairs—but a minute or two before I heard the screams, I heard Watts go up stairs—I heard his voice on the stairs—I did not hear the words he said—when I heard the screams, I went down in the kitchen to the servant—she came up with me—I gave her some directions, and she went up stairs—she soon returned, and at the same time Watts ran down, and went into the bar—the servant came back and said something to me, and the child came down and said something to me—I went up, and found Mrs. Watts and two children in the room, the little boy and the little girl—I do not know their ages—I should say ten or eleven—they were in the room crying—the deceased woman was lying on the bed perfectly insensible—her eyes were half open, and she was making a noise in her throat—I went up and spoke to her; she was not able to speak—she never spoke afterwards—I called for some water; I thought she might have been faint—I tried all I could, but she did not recover—I went down and found the prisoner in the bar—I said, "Watts, I believe your wife is dying; send for a doctor"—he said, "Let her die and be d—; I won't send for a doctor"—I said, "It is no use your talking like that, tell me who your doctor is and I will fetch him"—he said, "I will not"—he said she was drunk, and had fallen down stairs—I said, "If you won't send for your doctor, I will send for mine"—he said, "Mind your own business; you dare to send for a doctor; do it at your peril"—he then went into the bar and slammed the door—I went over the way to a doctor that I thought was their doctor, but he was not at home—I sent for another, and Mr. Reece came—that might be about a quarter of an hour after I had had the conversation with the prisoner—I went up stairs before the doctor came—I found the deceased on the floor—Watts was in the room, and he had hold of her, but I did not see what he did, for directly at that time the doctor came, and I ran down to let him in—I went up stairs with the doctor—I do not remember that the prisoner said anything to him then, but he did afterwards—he said, "I did not send for you, you

have no business here, you only want to make a job"—the doctor assisted me to get her on the bed—he looked at her and said, "I fear it is a concussion of the brain"—the prisoner said she was drunk, and he frequently ordered Mr. Reece out of the room, and to leave her alone—while the doctor was in the room, the prisoner tried to assist to lift Mrs. Watts on the bed, and he said she was very tipsy—Mr. Reece desired him to leave the room, and told him he feared she would never recover—the prisoner went out for a short time, and he came in again and again ordered Mr. Reece to go away—Mr. Reece said, "I don't wish you to have me, but I shall not leave this poor woman till you send for another medical man, and send for him in my presence"—the prisoner said he would have Dr. Forbes if he had anybody, for he was a gentleman, and would not charge him anything—he was sent for, and Mr. Reece then left, giving me instructions what to do; to put a bottle of water to her feet, and to send for him if I wanted him, if Dr. Forbes did not come—when Mr. Reece took his leave the prisoner was in the room, and after Mr. Reece had left, he again dragged his wife off the bed on the floor—he got her to the hearthstone, and stretched her out straight on the hearthstone—he pulled her up by her clothes in front, and threw her head back on the hearthstone—he did that twice—he said he would bring her to her senses, he had done that before—I tried to interfere—I tried to pull him away, and he threw me across the room, and my side came in contact with the bed post—I went back again to him to try to save her, and he said he would serve me the same if I did not leave the room—I tried to persuade him to let her alone and leave the room—he said she was drunk, and not fit to live, and he would kill her—he repeated that many times—I said, "Watts, if you don't leave her alone I will call the police; you will kill her"—he then went out of the room, leaving her on the floor—I called the servant to help me to pick her up, and put her on the bed—(the servant was in the room near the door when I called her, but she ran out several times because she was afraid of him)—I and the servant succeeded in putting her on the bed—after we got her on the bed, the prisoner came in again before Dr. Forbes came—the prisoner came to the bedside, dragged his wife off again on to the floor in a sitting posture—he got behind her, took hold of her two shoulders, and pushed her forwards with his knees—he then put his foot up, and kicked her forwards—he was still making use of bad language, the same as he had done before, and saying he would bring her to her senses, and he knew where to touch her to make her feel—when he pushed her forwards with his knee, it was not towards the bed but towards the door—I got him to let her go, and she fell backwards, but I caught her—I held her shoulders on my arm, and I lowered her down gently—he then laid hold of her legs, and began shamefully treating her—I was close to him all the time, trying to pull him away, but I was not strong enough—I kept him off as well as I could—I got him to leave the room, and I and the servant got her on the bed again—Dr. Forbes then came, and he examined her in the same way that Mr. Reece had done, and made use of nearly the same words; that he feared she would never recover—during the whole time that this was going on, she was in this insensible state, with her eyes fixed—when Dr. Forbes came and was examining her, the prisoner put his hand under the bed clothes, and did something to her feet—she gave a catch—I turned down the clothes to see what he was doing; he had got hold of her toes—I spoke to Dr. Forbes about it, and he ordered him out of the room—before Dr. Forbes came, the prisoner had squeezed her at the

back of her neck, and slapped her on the breast, and pinched her ear—he said he knew where to touch her to make her feel, and he would bring her to.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. How long had you and your husband lived in this place? A. About twelve months; it may be rather more—we are indebted to Mr. Watts for rent—I do not know how much without my rent book was here—I did not pay the rent weekly; I paid it when I had it—I do not owe 7l. or 8l.—I have had no dispute about it—we were always on good terms before this—the prisoner never asked me for rent in his life—I know Mrs. Nash—she used to be a friend of Mrs. Watts—she was not there when this happened—when Dr. Forbes was there, I told him I must have some one to help me, I could not stand it much longer, and she came while he was there—to the best of my recollection I fetched her myself—there is a Mrs. Turnbull, I believe, a sister-in-law of Mrs. Watts—she was not there—she came on the Sunday—I wished her to be sent for—she was not there at all on Saturday to my knowledge—she was not there when Dr. Forbes came; he came, I think, about 9o'clock—Mrs. Turnbull knew nothing about it till she came on Sunday, and I told her about it—I did not say anything to her about having got into a pretty mess, and that my husband would send me 100 miles in the country—I said I would rather have been 100 miles off, than to have witnessed what I had witnessed, or words to that effect—I did not make use of this expression, "I have got myself into a pretty mess"—the girl who was examined before the Coroner may be about ten yean old—I believe she was examined before the Magistrate and the Coroner, I believe not before the Grand Jury—I did not say to Mrs. Turnbull that I would stay in the country, and she did not say I should be made to come back—I said before that I wished I had been in the country, and Dr. Forbes said, "It would be no good, you have seen it"—Mrs. Turnbull accused me for being in different tales about this matter, and she said I should be well rapped on the knuckles for it—I had told her about this on the Sunday when she came, and she was very much put out about it—she said her brother had no business to marry an Irish woman—Mrs. Watts died on the Monday—I have never had any quarrel with this man—he never separated me and my husband when I was tipsy—I never was tipsy in my life—nobody can come forward to say I was—my husband and he got drunk one night, and they both came into my room—my room was never on fire when I and my husband were sitting at the table drinking—my husband was in bed, and my sister and I were in the back yard, down in the wash house, when there was a cry of fire, we came in, and Mr. Watts was coming out of the room—I have never made any threats against Watts that I would hang him, or anything of that kind—I am sure I have not—on the day I came from the Police Court, I did not tell Mrs. Turnbull I would hang him if I could—I never told that to any one.

Q. On Sunday night did you, and your husband, and How it son have a gallon of beer that was drawn? A. No, I had no beer at all; I was up stairs with poor Mrs. Watts on Sunday night—my husband was going to have some supper, and some friends came there—Mrs. Turnbull drew him some beer for supper, but I was up stairs—to the best of my recollection, I never tasted it—I am quite sure I have not exaggerated this matter at all in any way—the blows on the head that I spoke of, by lifting up the head and letting it down, were very violent, and she was insensible at the time—

during this period the prisoner appeared to be tipsy—he said he was not, and told Dr. Forbes he was not.

Q. Have you not repeatedly said that he appeared to be very much intoxicated? A. I have said that he appeared to be tipsy—he appeared to be drunk, but he was able to walk into the room and out again, and when a man is very drunk, of course he falls about—he charged me with giving his wife gin—that was not true—when he was doing what I have described, he repeatedly said his wife was drunk, and it would bring her to—he said that several times during the evening—he said she was drunk—I cannot tell his thoughts—he might think so for all me—from what he said to me over and over again, it did not appear to me that he was under the impression that she was drunk—it appeared to me that he was intemperate—he said she was drunk—he did not say it in a manner as if he thought she was drunk—I thought he said it just for the sake of saying so.

Q. Was any one in the room after Mr. Reece left, and before Dr. Forbes came? A. The servant was in the room once or twice—she saw a part of what passed—she was there part of the time.

MR. CLERK. Q. Before this Saturday had you ever had any dispute with Watts about rent? A. Never—there was a running account between us—I had done some things for the children, and I made the last black dress that Mrs. Watts ever had—to the best of my recollection, I fetched Mrs. Nash on the Saturday night, and she remained with me till about 12 o'clock—she then left me, and I remained with Mrs. Watts till some old lady that did washing came—I never saw Mrs. Turnbull till Sunday in my life—I asked Mr. Watts if he had not some relation that could come to assist me, and she came on Sunday—I think it was while church was in—she told me on the Monday that I was to be well rapped on the knuckles for having told different tales, and she told me on the Sunday, frequently, to be careful what I said, for there would be other witnesses beside me.

ROBERT BROWNING . I am the husband of the last witness. I am a tailor—I lived at No. 21, Spring-street about twelve months—I and my wife had been on good terms with Watts to that date—we never had any disputes with him—on Saturday afternoon, 14th July, about 4 o'clock, I was at work at home, in the front parlour—my wife was sitting with me—I heard a heavy fall, and screaming—my wife went out to see what was the matter—my wife's sister was in the room—my wife called her sister, and then she called me—I went in the passage, and helped to pick the prisoner's wife up—I found her lying in the passage when I went out—I did not see anything of the prisoner—I assisted in carrying the deceased into the back parlour—I left her just as I got her to the edge of the bed—I went into the front room—it is not necessary to go through the front room to go to the back room—there is a way from the passage—a few minutes after she was placed on the bed I heard Watts in the room—I heard his voice, I do not know what he said—I remained in the front parlour—about two hours after, he came into the front parlour—he said, "Where is that drunken b—h?"—I advised him not to go in to her, not to ill treat her any more, and my wife tried to prevent him from going in, but he pushed by her—she advised him to go out—she got him part of the way, between the front parlour and the back parlour—he said, "The b—r is not fit to live"—he got into the back room, and my wife followed him—I heard him swearing at my wife, and saying she had nothing to do with it, and he would have the d——d b—h out—the deceased remained on my wife's bed till about 7 o'clock, I

believe—I did not notice her going up stairs—I asked my wife how she was, and she said she was gone up stairs to her own room—after that I heard a fall and a scream immediately—it was up stairs—I could not tell which room it was in—my wife went out to see what was the matter—I did not go up stairs—the prisoner was drunk when he came into the front parlour, and went out into the back parlour—I do not think Mrs. Watts was in liquor; I never knew her to be drunk.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did you go out? A. I went out after that—the prisoner said his wife was drunk, he called her a drunken b—h—he said several times that she was drunk, and he wanted to come into the room to beat her again—that was after the first fall.

HANNAH SPRATMAN . I was living with my sister, Mrs. Browning, in the prisoner's house—I had been a lodger there for some months—on Saturday afternoon, 14th July, while sitting with my sister, I heard screams and a heavy fall—my sister went out to see what was the matter—she called me and I found Mrs. Watts lying upon the stairs—my brother in law also came out—I assisted in carrying her to the bed—after she was placed on the bed I bathed her head with cold water—the prisoner came in to try to get her out—I did not hear what he said—after some time he left the room, and about two hours after he came back to the front parlour—he came in with his hands clenched, and asked where the d—d bitch was—he pushed into the back parlour where she was, and tried to strike her—he did not reach her, for my sister prevented him—he said he would kill her, she was only drank and not fit to live—after that he left the room, and went out in the passage—I saw Mrs. Watts go upstairs, and after she went up I heard Watts go up—after he went up I heard screaming from upstairs—after those screams my sister went up into this upper room—I did not see or hear any one come down from the upper room after the screaming—I did not go upstairs—I saw nothing more of Mrs. Watts that evening—from what I saw of her that day, she was sober—she vomited, but there was no smell of liquor—Watte was drunk.

GEORGE REECE . I am a surgeon, and live at No. 45, Sussex-gardens. I was sent for that Saturday evening to the prisoner's house, a little before 9 o'clock—I went immediately I had the message—Mrs. Browning met me in the passage—I went upstairs with her to the bedroom—I found the deceased on the floor perfectly insensible—her pulse was very weak, and the surface of the body very cold and clammy—I examined the eye—the pupil was very much dilated—it did not contract in the slightest degree—I at once expressed my opinion that she was in" great danger—she appeared to be suffering under some violence to the brain—either concussion or com pression of the brain—the prisoner was in room when I stated it to be my opinion that she would not recover—he asked me who sent for me, and said I had no business there, he did not wish my presence, or my interference, and that he had not sent for me—I told him his wife was in great danger, that I had no wish to interfere with the case, but I should take charge of it until he had sent for some one else—I then assisted in removing her from the floor to the bed—he then gave directions to one of his children to fetch Mr. Forbes, and the child left the room for that purpose—we assisted his wife to the bed, I and Mrs. Browning, and I think the servant—the prisoner attempted to assist, but it appeared to me that he was not in a fit state to assist—he placed himself in a position where he could not be of use, and I desired him to leave the room, and I sent for a lighted candle.

Q. Had you any opportunity of ascertaining whether she was tipsy A. My attention was drawn to that by some one saying she was tipsy, but there was nothing of the kind—I ordered hot water to her feet—a fall down a portion of the stairs might account for the symptoms I saw; supposing that fall to have produced concussion of the brain, sickness would follow as a consequence—the first impression would be insensibility, but when reaction came on it might produce fulness of the vessels of the brain.

Q. You have heard that in this case this unfortunate woman talked, and walked up stairs, and two hours elapsed after that before you saw her; would you refer the state in which you found her after such an interval as you have described, to the injuries of the fall? A. Such a thing is possible—if a person talked after this and went up stairs, and I found her two hours after in the state in which I found her, it is possible that state might be referable to the fall—there are cases in which the vessels of the brain discharge their contents, and effuse the brain little by little—that is after reaction comes on—I should think the violence I have heard described after the fall, might have produced the state that I saw her in—it certainly would have accelerated it.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. I believe Dr. Forbes' name was mentioned? A. It was by the prisoner, and he ordered the boy to go for him.

JOHN GREGORY FORBES . I am a member of the College of Surgeons On Saturday evening, 14th July, I was called to the house of the prisoner—his little boy came for me, I believe, about half past 9 o'clock—I had attended the family before that day—I went as soon as I was sent for—I went to a room up stairs—I found the deceased lying on the bed—Ma Browning, the servant, and two children, were in the room—Mrs. Watts was insensible—I examined to see if there was any sign of spirits, and there was none—I attended her till her death, on Monday 16th July—I made a post mortem examination—there was a bruise on the head, of the size of a crown piece, immediately above the right ear—there was no other mark of injury on any part of the body; no external mark but this bruise—internally, there was a large quantity of blood effused on the surface of the brain, beneath the bruise, and extending over the whole of the hemisphere of the brain—there was no evidence of any disease previous to this—I attribute death to the injury to the head—the immediate cause was the effusion of the brain, which was the effect of the injury—on my arriving at the house the prisoner was in the passage—he made a statement to me with regard to his wife—he told me that she had fallen, I think he said down stairs, I am not certain, in consequence of having taken too much—while I was examining her in the room up stairs, he was there part of the time—he put his hand under the clothes, to her feet, while I was there, to her toes—Mrs. Browning called my attention to it—what he did to the feet had an effect on the deceased—she made a start—if he had pinched her feet, or any pressure on her feet, it would make her start her leg—a tickle with a feather might produce the effect, or it might be a pinch—at the time I was there, there was a conversation passing between Mrs. Browning and the prisoner—the purport of it was, objecting to Mrs. Browning's interference—I observed her conduct while I was in the room—there was nothing in her interference that appeared to me improper; not at all—she made a statement to me as to what the prisoner had done to his wife in the room—she stated the circumstances—I could not say positively whether the prisoner was present—he was in and out of the room—I saw a girl tea or eleven years of age in the room—she made a statement to me about her

father—the prisoner was intoxicated—after the woman was dead, I was in the house when the prisoner was taken into custody, on Tuesday, the 17th—the prisoner made a statement—he said that he pushed against his wife—he said that he wished to get her back to the bar; that he followed her up stairs, and pulled her by the dress to get her back, and, not succeeding, he went up above her and pushed her, and she took hold of the rail of the banister; it gave way, and she fell—I observed that there was a banister broken, but not at that time—I dare say there were fire or sir steps from the landing place to where the banister was broken—that was where the staircase was straight, but it turned afterwards—the woman died on the Monday night—the prisoner was on the bed at the time—I told him of it, and he turned his face away and cried.

Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Was he quite sober then? A. Yes—I have attended the family, and always gratuitously, except on one occasion in her confinement—the prisoner's mother was in my family, and rendered us some assistance—of course, in sending for me, he would be sure he was sending for some one who would not charge him for attendance—I had attended this unfortunate woman—she had not complained of anything in her head except headaches, nothing more—when I saw the prisoner he was intoxicated—he said to me that his wife was drunk, but it was not true. Q. Supposing the head had been violently thrown on the hearthstone, or lifted and fallen on the hearthstone, do you believe you must have observed some marks on the back of the head? A. If it had been done with great violence—I only observed one external injury—there would have been other marks than I saw, if it had been with great violence—I think there would not have been internal wounds—the effusion had extended over one hemisphere of the brain—if a person had received a push, and had fallen from the banister, that would occasion all that I saw, because there would he no limit to the effusion—I think what the prisoner told me was that his wife was the worse for liquor, or the worse for drink—that was an erroneous impression of his, but still such an impression as a drunken man might take up—his wife was not a particularly heavy, strong woman.

COURT. Q. Do you say that a push, or a fall down stairs, would account for all you saw? A. Yes, and for her death.

MR. PARRY. Q. Would a fall without a push have occasioned it? A. Yes—I never saw the prisoner otherwise than kind and attentive to his wife—I never heard of quarrels between them—of course I attended at times when kindness was of consequence—I think there have been five such—when he cried, it appeared to be a genuine expression of emotion.

Q. You have heard Mrs. Browning's statement about the treatment on the hearth, do you believe that so much violence could have taken place without some marks of injury? A. I think the absence of marks might be attributed to the hair being on the head.

MR. BODKIN. Q. How long had you attended them? A. I think about four years—I have been there seven or eight times at different attendances, but I have been there more frequently of course—the last medical visit I paid was in Jan. this year, but I had been in the house about a month before this—the deceased was a woman of sober, temperate habits—the fall that has been described might account for all that I saw, but such violence as has been deposed to would, I think, increase or accelerate the consequences of the fall.

COURT. Q. I understood you to say that this fall down the stairs would

account for all that you saw and for her death, do you mean for her death at the time when she died? A. Yes, for her death when she died.

Q. Then what happened to her afterwards could not accelerate or increase it? A. Yes, it would have a tendency to do so, but I think all I saw might be accounted for by a fall.

CORMACK DOWNS (police sergeant, D 6). I was with inspector Grant when the prisoner was taken—the inspector left him in my charge in Mrs. Browning's room, in his own house—the prisoner told me to sit down—he said, "I won't go away, I have done nothing, and no Jury will find me guilty; I did not strike her, if I did, I ought to be hung"—he repeated that expression three or four times—he said, "Certainly I had no right to push her.

GUILTY of Manslaughter . Aged 38.— Transported for Fourteen Years.

THIRD COURT.—Thursday, September 20th. 1855.


Before Mr. Recorder and the Seventh Jury.

Reference Number: t18550917-877

877. WILLIAM MANSFIELD and CHARLES OLIVER , unlawfully attempting burglariously to break and enter the dwelling house of James Franklin, with intent to steal.

MR. ORRIDGE conducted the Prosecution,

JAMES FRANKLIN . I am a jeweller, of No. 9, Cranbourne-street. On Thursday, 6th Sept., about 10 minutes past 3 o'clock in the morning, my wife awoke, and directed my attention to a noise in the wall, which separates my house from Mr. Reeves's, as if persons were breaking in—I listened for a few minutes, and heard it myself, and then went into the dining room underneath, when I heard it more plainly—I then went into the parlour, and heard it more plainly—I then went into the street, listened at Mr. Reeves's shutters, and was quite convinced that men were at work—I spoke to a policeman, he rang the bell, and then I heard a noise, which I supposed was the dropping of their housebreaking instruments, and after that a tremendous crash, as of something falling, which turned out to be three or four feet of cooking stove—Mr. Reeves opened the door, I went in, and saw a large hole partly cut through the wall which divides his shop from mine—his is a milliner's shop, but the house was supposed to be empty, as the furniture had been removed—there might be a bedstead or two, as Mr. Reeves was living there—the shutters had been up for a day or two, and bills on them—I found a jemmy, and a stock and bit, on the floor—the circle of the hole was large enough to admit a man's body, but it was not completely through.

JAMES ULLINGHAM LACY REEVES . I live at No. 8, Cranbourne-street, next door to Mr. Franklin. On Thursday, 6th Sept, I had been aroused by my wife, and heard a sound of breaking glass in the shop, and a bell ringing—I came down to the first floor, and proceeded to the leads, under the impression that it was fire—I found out that it was not, and went down and admitted a constable and Mr. Franklin—I found a hole in my shop in the party wall, and immediately under the hole a crowbar a jemmy, a stock, and a centre bit—the back window of my shop was broken in two places, and the

coping immediately under the window thrown off—people could hare gone away that way.

COURT. Q. Did you find how they had got in? A. I presume they had descended by a deep well to the back kitchen window—the house was left safe the night before.

JUBAL EMERY . I live at No. 1, Earl's-court, at the back of Mr. Franklin's house. On Thursday morning, 6th Sept., I was aroused about 4 o'clock, by the breaking of glass—I opened my bed room window and saw a man, about two yards from me, just stepping off the tiles under my window—that is the roof of No. 6, Ryder's-court—it was nearly daylight—he was stepping on to the roof of the next outhouse—the tiles run in a line with Mr. Franklin's, and are behind Mr. Reeves's house, about thirty yards from Mr. Reeves's back premises, from which he appeared to be coming—he went down into Mr. Dillman's yard, which is next door to mine—I heard him fall, but cannot say whether he jumped or dropped—I then saw the prisoner Mansfield on his hands and knees, about a yard from the window, and he followed the other man, and went down into the same yard—I am certain he is the man—he was dressed the same as he is now.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You did not see his face did you? A. No, but I was close to him; he was crawling in front of me—I can undertake to. say that he is the man without seeing his face—I saw him sufficiently to know that it is him—I saw him not two hours afterwards at the station house—I was taken there by Mr. Franklin—Mansfield was in custody—I knew that he was taken up, and I had told the policeman where they were—I can swear positively that he is the man, without having seen his face; I have done so—Mr. Dillman's yard is in Earl's-court—I live next door to him, between his house and Mr. Franklin's—they would have to pass my house to get from Dillman's to Franklin's—there is no yard to my house, there is a little yard to Dillman's—they could drop into Earl's-court without passing my house, by going over other people's premises, but I do not know what buildings there are—it was 4 o'clock in the morning when I saw these men drop from the tiles—I did not look at a watch, but every-body said that it was 4 o'clock—it may not have been half past 4 o'clock, because it would have been lighter—my wife was there; she, of course, did not see the men, as I had no candle—my wife did not get up—I will not swear who the other man was—I went to the front door, and told a police-man where they had gone to, and saw him go to Dillman's—he took them, and I saw them pass my door, and then I went to bed again—I saw Mr. Franklin about 6 o'clock in the morning, and went with him to the station—Dillman's is a coffee house—I do not know that it is a night house; I believe they shut up at 11o'clock—I cannot see into Dillman's yard from my premises, but I saw the policemen come out of Dillman's yard with the prisoners—I did not exactly see them drop, but I saw their feet on the last part of the outhouse, and heard their feet go down into the yard.

COURT. Q. What do you know Mansfield by? A. By his general appearance—I saw no part of his features.

FREDERICK DILLMAN I keep a coffee shop, at No. 2, Earl's-court, at the back of Cranbourne-street. On Thursday morning, 6th Sept, between 4 and 5 o'clock, a policeman called me—I hurried down stairs, and saw the two prisoners standing in the passage which leads from my yard to the street door—the door of that passage had been opened—it leads from the house into the passage—there is no door into the street at the end of the passage, and the street door was closed—they were inside the passage, close to the yard

door—they would have rushed out, but the policeman stopped them when I opened the door.

Cross-examined. Q Your house is kept open very late, is it not? A. Never after 11 o'clock—I am not an Englishman—it is frequented by Germans and Frenchmen, as well as English—it is not a late house, 11 o'clock is the time to be always closed; it may sometimes be 5 minutes after 11 o'clock—only my lodgers are let in after 11 o'clock—I have three lodgers—I do not let people in for other purposes after 11 o'clock—there is a yard at the back of my house; it is closed in, but not covered over—there are other yards close to it covered over—Mr. Emery's house is next to mine, there is a yard to it, but it is covered over with leads—a person could drop from those leads into my yard—they can go from those leads all across, but there is no yard but mine that they could drop into, they are covered over—sometimes the lodgers go out into the yard, and leave the back door open.

MR. ORRIDGE. Q. You have lived there some years? A. Twenty-two years last Midsummer.

JOHN HENRY BENNETT (policeman, C 160). On Thursday, 6th Sept, about 4 o'clock in the morning, I was called to Mr. Franklin's, and from what he said, I rang the bell at Mr. Reeves's—I spoke to some people, and then went round to the back of Mr. Franklin's house—after ringing the bell, I heard a noise, and the smash of glass—I ran round into Earl's-court, and saw Oliver at the top of the leads, immediately at the back of No. 10, Cranbourne-street, adjoining Mr. Franklin's—when he saw me, he stepped back from the edge and I lost sight of him—I saw his face distinctly, and am quite certain he is the man.

Cross-examined. Q Had you known him before? A. No—I was nine or ten feet from him; he was on the top of the leads, and I was close under him, and saw him most distinctly—the leads are nine or ten feet high—I saw him for a moment—when he saw me he shifted from there, and I saw no more of him till I saw him at the station—I did not go to Mr. Dillman's house—I went to the station, because I knew that they were in custody—I saw Oliver in custody—Mr. Emery gave his evidence before me at the police court, and I heard him say that he could identify Mansfield as the man he saw on the leads—I then gave my evidence, and swore to Oliver, who was in the dock (I only saw Oliver)—after I had seen him on the leads, I sprung my rattle, obtained the assistance of other constables, and with them made search for the prisoners—I ran into Little Newport-street—we surrounded the place in order that they might not escape—I left policemen in Earl's-court, but in the hurry of the moment I cannot give you their numbers—some of them went with me into Newport-street, some went to the station house—I remained some time in Newport-street to see that the men did not escape—I went from Newport-street into Ryder's-court.

JOSEPH BRIGHTMAN (policeman, F 31). On Thursday, 6th Sept, about 4o'clock in the morning, I was called to Earl's-court—I was told something, and rang Mr. Dillman's bell; he came down and opened the door, and the prisoners were in the passage of his house—they attempted to run past him and me—I took Oliver, he was very violent on the way to the station, and struck me a very violent blow on the mouth with his fist, cut my lip, and tried to throw me down—I got the assistance of another constable, and took him to the station.

Cross-examined. Q Were you one of the constables surrounding the place? A. Yes, I was in Earl's-court all the time—Mr. Dillnian's house is there

—I did not go into Ryder's court, and do not know who was stationed there—there is no way of getting, from the leads to Ryder's-court that I am aware of.

COURT. Q. You saw the prisoners in the passage, are you sure that one was Mansfield? A. Yes; and I gave him into custody to another police-man at that spot, without losing sight of him—I had him all the time in my hand—I seized both prisoners at once.

MR. RIBTON to JAMES ULLINGHAM LACY REEVES. Q. Is it possible that they can get to the back of the houses in Ryder's-court, by passing through a house; can you get into Ryder's-court from your leads? A. Only through a house, there is no way over the leads at all, and there is no empty house that they could have gone through—they could not get from the leads into Newport-street, but it is possible that they could drop into Earl's-court.

JOSEPH GILES BARBER (policeman. C 59) I produce the housebreaking instruments found in Mr. Reeves's house, and this life preserver (produced) in the back yard—here is a crowbar, a jemmy, a stock, and two centre bits—I saw marks of both centre bits haying been used upon the wall in the brick work.

Cross-examined. Q Are they a complete set of burglar's instruments? A. Yes (The prisoners statements before the Magistrate were here read, as follows: Oliver says, "I and my friend went into the coffee house and fell asleep; I was bad in my inside"; Mansfield says, "I say the same.")

COURT to FREDERICK DILLMAN. Q. How do you get into the passage when you come down stairs? A. It is the passage of the house, it is open to the back yard—the door was not closed, it had been left open; it always is—the door from the coffee shop into the passage was locked—I did not go through it—I should have had to have done so to get into the coffee shop—it was locked, I had locked it the night before, and took the key up stairs.

MANSFIELD— GUILTY . Aged 23; OLIVER— GUILTY . Aged 19. (The officer Barber stated that Mansfield had been convicted of felony, and was out on a ticket of leave.) Confined Two Years each .

Reference Number: t18550917-878

878. ELIZA HENESSEY , unlawfully omitting to supply food and clothing to Peter Henessey, her child, the same being supplied by the father.

MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.

PATRICK M'DONALD . I own the house, No. 7, Montague-court, Bishops-gate-street. Down to Aug. the prisoner and her husband were tenants of one room there, at 2s. a week—they came there as teetotalers—the husband used to send the rent down, and the prisoner used generally to pay it—they paid pretty regularly—they lived with me seven or eight weeks, but I have known them for the last four or five years—they had two children, the youngest about three years old, to the best of my opinion—her husband used to buy old clothes, and mend them, and she used to sell them—that is called clobbering, and they could get a very good living at it: I wish I could do as well—they used to work three days in the week sometimes, and were quite the contrary of sober—the man used to work very hard—the prisoner was the chief instigator—she would come in drunk, and take him out when he was perfectly sober, and keep him out till 2 o'clock in the morning—they both got intoxicated and neglected their business—this young child, Peter, used to remain alone, and in the dark, just as it came into the world, with nothing but a lock of straw; it was so three weeks before I gave them

in charge—I looked round the room and could not see the child, but as I was coming out of the room I saw an old coat on the floor, under which I found it—there was no one there, it was 5 or 6 o'clock in the afternoon—there was no furniture in the room—when I lifted the child up its face stuck to the floor, which tore it from ear to ear—there were sores all over its body. in fact nobody could handle it—I saw it about three times afterwards—it was always in the same condition—I spoke to the prisoner about it till I was tired of speaking, she has got such a bad tongue—they were taken into custody on Wednesday, the 22nd—I had seen the child on Tuesday, in the same state, and went to the station and gave information—about three weeks after Christmas they were living at a place called Reeves'-rents—this child was with them then, and another which is dead—they left this child there desolate, in an empty room, with as much straw as I could put into my hat, no fire, and nothing but nuisance in the place—my wife washed and cleaned the child, and got abused for it—they only owe me the rent for the week in which they were taken in charge—I did nothing to try to get rid of the husband as a tenant—I had given him notice to quit about three weeks before.

Prisoner. He has stated all false.

COURT. Q. Have you ever seen her with any money? A. Yes—on the Sunday before I gave her in charge she had 4s. or 5s. in her hand, out of which she gave me 2s. for the rent, and wanted me to go and have some drink—she then wanted to send out for some beer, but I said, "No; we are teetotalers"—I saw her again on the Monday—she was then drunk, and her husband and sister were with her—on the Tuesday she went out very early in the morning, and the child was left all day by itself—I did not see them till about half past 4 o'clock—she was then sober, and on the Wednesday, when she was taken, she was sober; but on the Tuesday I only heard her on the stairs, making a noise, and calling all sorts of names, but I did not see her, because I was in bed.

REBECCA WILLIAMSON . I live with my husband, at No. 1, Montague-court. I have known the Henesseys nine or ten years, and have known them at that house passing in and out—on the day before they were taken, the last witness came and told me something about the little boy, and I went to the room, about half past 8 o'clock in the evening—the parents had been out ever since 7 o'clock in the morning—I went up to the top of the house, and found the child in a corner, on some loose straw, with a piece of a filthy rug over it—Mr. M'Donald lifted the child up, and it was all sores, and the straw sticking into the sores—it was a skeleton—there was no furniture or food in the room, not even a drop of clean water—we went down stairs, and in a little time the father came down, and wanted us to buy a coat—it had gone 12o'clock when the prisoner came home, and she went, swearing, up the stairs—I know she must have been intoxicated—I was in bed—the child was always neglected at the beginning of the week, till Tuesday or Wednesday—they could earn a good living if they stuck to their business.

COURT. Q. When the husband came to sell the coat, did he complain of having no money? A. Yes—he said, "The wife has the money"—I have never seen him give her money—I have heard him say that he could not get enough to get shaved, and he said that the mother was out drinking, and he could not get enough to give the child.

Prisoner. Q. Have you seen me come home drunk? A. Many times.

MARY GUNN . I live at No. 8, Montague-court, and have for some little time known the Henesseys—I did not see the little boy till the morning of

22nd Aug., a little after 9 o'clock, when there was a mob of people standing about, and talking about the child, and I went up like the rest—the child was lying on its face and hands on some straw, on the ground—I turned him over, and looked at his face—his head went on one side, and I thought he was dead—I got a piece of bread and butter, and put it into his hand, but he never put it to his mouth—his skin was very dirty, and all over scabs, and he was very thin—I could not stay long to see such a sight—I was one of those who gave information to the police—the room was very dirty, and had no furniture, only a bit of dirty straw—there were no signs of working.

DANIEL CARTER (City policeman. 82). About 10 o'clock, on Wednesday, when the prisoners were taken, I went into their room, and found Henessey, the child in question, about two years and a half old, and a boy about twelve—the child had a little bit of rag wrapped round it, but nothing in the shape of clothing—it was sitting on a little heap of straw, and there was no furniture or food in the room—M'Donald was there when I went in—the child was in a deplorable state, and I took him to Mr. Fowler, the surgeon, and since then he has been in the Union.

ROBERT FOWLER . I am a surgeon of No. 145, Bishops-gate-street Without. On 22nd Aug. policeman Carter brought the child to me—it appeared to be between two and three years old—the first thing that struck me was the exceedingly dirty condition of the skin—it was almost literally covered with sores, some raw, others scabbed over, and others of long standing, healed over—they arose from skin disease, insufficient food, want of clothing, and want of cleanliness—the flesh was very flabbid and emaciated—the eyes were inflamed, and closed, and discharging matter—the belly was in a tumid condition, which is a symptom of disease—it was in a very dangerous state—I saw it about a week ago, and it is very much improved.

COURT. Q. Is it likely to recover? A. I think not ultimately—mesenteric disease exists, which would be produced by such treatment.

BENJAMIN CLARK . I am surgeon to the East London Union. They have an infirmary at Homerton—the child was brought there on 22nd Aug.—I was there at the time, and instantly saw it—a woman brought it from the police office, rolled up in some cloth, and on unrolling it, it presented the most deplorable sight I ever witnessed, covered with sores, some of them bleeding—the eyes were partially open—they were highly inflamed, and there was a thick purulent discharge from them—its limbs were very much reduced—the pulse was low, and it was in an extremely sickly condition—the belly was very turgid, what we call tympanites: as tight as a drum—that is evidence of what we call affection of the mesenteric glands, which is one of the most dangerous diseases children can be exposed to—it arises from deprivation of light, food, and cleanliness, and I can attribute the child's appearance to no other causes—I saw it yesterday—it is improved, but there are still sores about it—it was put immediately into a warm bath, and a nurse appropriated to it entirely—I expect that the disease will prove fatal, or the child will be a cripple for life.

COURT. Q. I dare say your position brings you in contact with many of the poorest classes? A. Sometimes—I should say that a child about that age might be fed on a pint of milk a day, with about four ounces of bread—that would keep a child comfortably at that age, and would prevent disease.

Prisoner's Defence. On the morning that this took place, I went out quite sober, with the intention of bringing in breakfast, and before I had

time to do so they came in, and did not look for any clothing to put on the child, but took him away; there was clothing in the room; they had my husband taken, and brought another policeman to my sister's and took me; I only earn 1l. or 30s. a week; I am obliged to be out all day, but during the time I am in doors, I never neglect the child; my husband does not bring me in 1s. a week; I have to support my family and myself; I always made it a rule to stay sober when my husband got drunk, because I have nobody else to look after the children.

COURT to REBECCA WILLIAMSON. Q. What has become of the elder child? A. He is in the workhouse—he used to work with his father in the same room—the father used to work very hard while he did work—the boy was not at home on this occasion—he said that he had nothing to eat, and picked up some pieces of bread in the street and ate them.

The prisoner called

MARGARET HUTTON . I am the prisoner's sister—my husband is dead—I know that the child has been ill; it was bad last winter—I had it five weeks, from Easter to Whitsuntide—the mother sent it up to me from Liverpool by its aunt—the prisoner's husband earns money by tailoring, sometimes more and sometimes less—I cannot say how much a week—the prisoner receives the money, and buys what is necessary for their eating and drinking, not her husband—she sells the clothes, and buys the eating and drinking.

GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Two Years .

Reference Number: t18550917-879

879. JAMES HENESSEY , unlawfully and wilfully omitting to provide Peter Henessey, aged three years, with food, drink, and clothing, whereby his health was injured, and his life was in great peril.

MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution. PATRICK M'DONALD. I first took notice of the condition of the child about three weeks prior to the prisoner's apprehension—as I went into the room I missed the child, and as I was coming out I found it under an old coat, in a very bad state, dirty, covered with sores, and very sickly—I had it washed by my wife—there was no furniture or food in the room, except a piece of crust unfit to eat; no animal could eat it—I saw the child three times—it always laid in the same corner—prior to the prisoner being taken, I told him on Tuesday night that I would give him in charge if he went out and left the child in that state, and that I had been from 4 till 9 o'clock hunting the public houses for him—he said that he would go out if he liked, and I could not do anything to him for it—he was not drunk or sober then—he is a very hardworking man, and if left alone by his wife would work six days in the week, but I never knew it to be so—when he did work, and had anything for sale, I have seen her out in Petticoat-lane selling the things—I have known that she has taken money for them—I have seen a good deal of money, time after time, with her—there is one instance when I lent the prisoner half a crown, and he acknowledged to me afterwards that he had over 1l. worth of goods to spare after supporting themselves—that was three weeks previous—I knew them when they lived in Reeve's-rents—the child was awfully treated there, because they left it without a fire, in the frost and snow, in the dead of winter.

Prisoner. I did my best to work for my children, and I always gave my wife my earnings; I always fed my children as much as lay in my power.

REBECCA WILLIAMSON . Mr. M'Donald drew my attention to the child—I found it quite naked, and covered with sores—I thought it was dead

at first—it was very thin indeed—on the Tuesday night, the prisoner came in about 10 o'clock—he was not sober, but was not so much in liquor at I have seen him—I asked him if the child had had anything to eat to day—he said, "No, not since yesterday, or longer for what I know"—I asked him the cause of it—he said that the mother was out drinking with her sister, and he could not get any money from her—he wanted my husband to buy a coat, but my husband said that he never bought anything for drink, and the prisoner went out and sold it for a few halfpence, I believe—I did not see him next morning till the policeman was in the room—he was not at work—the sister fetched the wife out at 6 o'clock in the morning, and the prisoner followed, but I do not know at what time—I found the child in the same state, and M'Donald fetched the police.

Prisoner. Q. I asked you if I might leave two coats? A. I said you might leave the bundle, and you said that you were afraid your wife would sell it for drink—I did not see what was in it—you had them next morning and sold them.

DANIEL CASTER (policeman). I found the child in a wretched condition at 10 o'clock in the morning—the prisoner was in the room cutting an old coat to pieces—I asked him how it was that the child was in that state; he said that he made up clothes for the lane, and his wife took them there to sell, spent the money, and got drunk—M'Donald said that he and his wife both get drunk together, and left the child there crying for hours—he made no answer.

ROBERT FOWLER . I am medical officer of the parish—the child was brought to me in a deplorable condition, covered all over with a skin eruption, some healed, some scabbed over, and some open—it resulted from want of proper care and food—it is not out of danger yet.

Prisoner's Defence. I do not wish to say anything, but I wish to call Mr. M'Donald, my landlord.

PATRICK M'DONALD re-examined by the Prisoner. Q. Will you give me a good character? A. I am sure you would be a sober man if your wife and sister-in-law did not get you out to drink—you lived with me four years ago, and were a teetotaler—when your sister-in-law breaks out, she gets your wife to break out too—there is not a better husband or father when sober, and I never saw you get drunk except when your wife came in.

GUILTY . Aged 44.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Twelve Months.


Before Russell Gurney, Esq.

Reference Number: t18550917-880

880. JOHN WARD , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

MARY STEVENS . My husband keeps a baker's shop, at Stratford On 11th Aug. I was in the shop about half past 9 o'clock in the evening—the prisoner came for a half quartern loaf—I served him—he tendered me a 5s. piece—I put it between my teeth, and found it gave way—I went to the prisoner and said, "This is a bad one"—he said, "I am sure it is not"—I let it fall—I seized it, and he wrenched it from my hand, and ran out with it—I am sure it was bad, my teeth went right into it.

RICHARD LORD. I live at Stratford. On 13th Aug. the prisoner came to my shop for half an ounce of tobacco—my mistress served him—he tendered in payment a crown piece—I looked at it, and it was so good I could hardly tell whether it was good or bad—I gave it to him—I then said, "Let me look at it again"—he gave it me—I put it to my teeth, and bit it—I said, "I will give you into custody, you knew this was bad"—he said, "I was not aware of it"—I said, "Where did you get it?"—he said he got it in change in the Commercial-road—I could not find a constable, and said to the prisoner, "You may go, but you shall not have the money"—I nailed it on the counter, and the constable took it off the counter.

CHARLES BARNES . I keep a pastry cook's shop, at Barking. The prisoner came there on 3rd Sept.; he was served by my daughter—he tendered a 5s. piece—she passed it to me—I examined it, and found it was very bad—I told him so—I laid it on the counter—he took it, and went away with it—I saw him again last Saturday—I am sure he is the same person.

ELIZA ALABASTER . My husband keeps a baker's shop, at Stratford. On 3rd Sept. the prisoner came—I served him a biscuit, he tendered in payment a half crown—I took it up, and told him it was bad—he said, "this it, ma'am?"—I called my husband, and gave him the half crown—the prisoner was given into custody in the shop.

WILLIAM ALABASTER . On Monday, 3rd Sept., I was in the back parlour, my wife called me—I went into the shop, and found the prisoner there—my wife gave me a half crown—I found it was bad—I asked the prisoner where he came from—he told me he came from Bow—I gave him into custody to the officer, and gave the officer the half crown that my wife gave me.

WILLIAM SOUTH (policeman, K 233). On 3rd Sept. I took the prisoner at Mr. Alabaster's shop—he gave me this half crown—I got this crown piece from Mr. Lord's counter.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These are both bad.

GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18550917-881

881. FREDERICK JEX , stealing 1 metal cup, and 1 metal and bone handle, value 4s.; the goods of Charles Plater, and fixed to a building.

MR. W. J. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

CHARLES PLATER . I am a builder, of West Ham. I am the proprietor of Belgrave Villas, in the turnpike road there—about the end of June I received information, went to the house No. 1, and found that it had been entered, part of the first floor water closet fittings were broken off and taken away, the cup and handle, and also a quantity of brass taps—I gave information to the police—about the last week in Aug. Mr. Whitworth showed me a handle and cup which I recognised as my property—I compared them and they fitted—on 8th Sept., after the prisoner had been bailed by a Magistrate, he came to my house, and said, "I am very sorry that this has occurred, and I shall be very glad to make any recompense in my power"—I said that if he was innocent and did not do it, he had no occasion to come about it—he said that he hoped I should look it over in the best way I could—I said that I did not want to hurt him—he had not been employed by me to work in that house, but he had in other houses near that spot—this cup and handle (produced), are mine, and this other is the part which was fixed to the water closet.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE, SENIOR. Q. The prisoner is a contractor

sto plasterers? A. Yes; he has contracted with me altogether to about 100l., but I have unfortunately stopped for a little while, and there is about six weeks' work under his contract uncompleted—when it is completed, about 35l. or 40l. will be owing to him—he has materials to find—I have known him about nine months—when he told me he would make recompense for what be had done, he said that he found them on the grass plot.

JAMES WHITWORTH . I am a builder, of Chatsworth-road, West Ham. The prisoner was in my employ, and about the middle of June he came with these two articles, and laid them down in the yard—we had a few words on business, and he walked away and left them there on a piece of timber—they were taken into the shop by a labourer who was clearing the yard—they remained with me till 22nd or 23rd Aug., and then Mr. Plater was relating the circumstance of his place being robbed, and I showed them to him.

Cross-examined. Q. Was the prisoner employed by you as contractor for plasterers' work? A. Yes; I paid him 17l. 10s. for plastering three houses—nothing was done with these things for two months—I had heard nothing from the police, they made no inquiry of me.

COURT. Q. When he brought them and left them on the timber, was nothing said about them? A. Nothing at all—I saw him lay them down; he was not working in my yard, he should have been working at the houses, but he was not at work that day—he was in the habit of coming backwards and forwards, and leaving things at my premises—I have a screen of his and several things.

JOHN WILHEM MANNING (police sergeant, K 5). About 23rd June, I received information from the prosecutor—I went to No. 1, Belgrave Villas, and found that the brass fittings of the water closet were gone—in Aug. Mr. Plater gave me this cup and handle—I went to the house, found that they fitted, and brought the other part away—I tried to find the prisoner, but was not able to do so till 6th Sept—Benton was in search of him as well—he was not at work—I inquired for him at various builders—I did not know where his residence was.

Cross-examined. Q. You afterwards found him at his house? A. Yes, we found it from a relation of his—I inquired of persons and could not find out where he lived—he was at work when we apprehended him, at some buildings at Hudson's New Town.

COURT. Q. Who did you inquire of where he lived? A. of Mr. Palmer, a builder, and Mr. Bird, a builder—I did not inquire of Mr. Whitworth, I did not know him at that time—I was aware that Mr. Plater got the things from Mr. Whitworth; he told me so, but I did not inquire there, I thought it advisable not to do so.

JOSEPH BENTON (policeman, K 381). I am stationed at West Ham. On Thursday, 6th Sept., I went after the prisoner, and found him at Hudson's-town, in the parish of West Ham, about three quarters of a mile from this place—I asked him if he had sold any bell knobs or a cup of a water closet to Mr. Whitworth; he said, "No, I have not"—I asked him if he had taken any to his place; he said, "No"—I asked him if he had given him any; he said, "No"—he then said that he had sold some bolts and locks to Mr. Whitworth—I told him that I must take him to the station for stealing some bell knobs and the cup of a water closet, the property of Mr. Plater—he said, "Very well, the old b—owes me 40l." he asked me to let him go down stairs to put his clothes on—he went down to the kitchen, and I waited up stairs on the landing—I said, "Jex, come, you are a long while"—he had then been about five minutes—he said, "I

am coming"—he did not come—I went to see for him, and he was not there—I looked into the next house, got up, and saw him 300 or 400 yards off, running—I made inquiry as to where he lived, and went to his house at Leyton about 10 or 11 o'clock on the same night—I went the back way, and sergeant Manning went the front way—I heard the sergeant in the house—I shut the door—it was opened to me; I do not know who by as it was very dark, and Jex came down stairs—I said, "Jex, how came you to run away?" he said that he only went into the town to look after a job—I said, "You must come along with us now"—he said that he would be b—if he would—he swore for some time—I said, "You had better come quietly", and took some handcuffs from my pocket and persuaded him, and his wife said, "You had better go quiet"—I took him to the station, produced the cup and said, "Do you know anything about this cup, Jex!" he said, "No, I do not, it was never in my posssession"—I said, "Mr. Whitworth says that you took it to his place"—he said, "If Mr. Whitworth says so he must prove it."

Cross-examined. Q. When you went up stairs, what time was it? A. Half past 5 o'clock—sergeant Manning was with me part of the time—I will not be certain whether he was with me when the prisoner said, "The old b—owes me upwards of 40l. "—I believe he was within a yard or two of me; I know he was—Manning was with me in the first instances—I met him just at this side of the Castle—I had found out where the prisoner was at work—I went to Hudson's-town in consequence of information—the prisoner was in his working dress, plastering—I believe sergeant Manning was close by when I went up, and saw the prisoner 300 or 400 yards off—the sergeant was at the front of the house, and the prisoner went out at the back—there are about twenty carcases of houses there.

J. W. MANNING re-examined. I went with Benton in the day time to the carcases, where the prisoner was at work—I was opposite the row of houses some short distance off, nearly across the road—I did not go into the carcases till I was called by Benton—I was not near enough to hear what passed between him and Benton—I did not see the prisoner run away—when I was called, I saw him some 400 yards from the house, or a little more, running in a sort of nursery—about half past 10 o'clock that evening I went to his house, knocked at the front door three or four times, and sent Benton round to the back—the door was opened to me after some short time, and Benton came in shortly after me—I was present when the prisoner came down—Benton said, "What made you run away?" he said, "I went to look after work", he did not say where—Benton told him he must go to the station—he said, "I will see you b——first"—his wife persuaded him to go quietly, and he did so—I went to the station with him, and went into my room where I had the property locked up—I placed it on the desk in the charge room, and Benton said, "Do you know anything of this tap?" or, "Did you ever see this property before?"—I forget the exact words—the prisoner said, "No, I never saw it before in my life"—I do not remember whether anything was said about Mr. Whitworth—I was not taking the charge—I did not put any questions to him; I knew that it was not proper.

COURT. Q. Had you any authority over Benton, were you his superior? A. Yes—I believe something was said to him about putting those questions—there were two or three officers there—it is contrary to our instructions to put questions to prisoners—I told all that passed at Hudson's-town, and at the prisoner's house, to the Magistrate—I cannot account for it not

being taken down—it was at Hampton, before the county Magistrates—the clerk said, "You were in company with Benton," and I said, "Yes, I was"—I went with Benton to the houses to look for the prisoner, but I stopped some short distance outside—I did not hear the prisoner say anything about Mr. Plater—I was not near enough.

HENRY EDWARD CHALKLEY . I am a painter and grainer of Old Ford—I know Mr. Plater—he has some houses in Belgrave-villas—I know the prisoner—I missed these things and other fittings from this and other houses about the end of June, and gave information to Mr. Plater, and went over the premises with him—I had some of my implements at the house—I went to fetch them, and missed the articles—I had been working at the house with the prisoner, but cannot say how long he was working there before the things were missing.

COURT to MR. PLATER. Q. It was at the latter end of June that your attention was called to it? A. Yes, the works had been suspended a month before that.

(The prisoner received a good character.)



Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18550917-882

882. JOHN BLANCH , stealing, on 11th Sept, I watch, 1 guard chain, and 1 eye glass, value 12l.; the property of Elizabeth Brown, in her dwelling house: to which he

PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 23.— Four Years Penal Servitude.

Reference Number: t18550917-883

883. GEORGE FURNESS and MARY ROCHE , stealing, on 20th July, 1 coat, value 1l. 2nd COUNT, on 28th July, 1 pair of trowsers, value 15s. 3rd COUNT, on 2nd Aug., 2 pairs of trowsers, 1 coat, and 1 waistcoat, value 3l.; the goods of Henry Tuff.

JAKES LONG VINEER . I am shopman to Mr. Henry Tuff, a clothier, in Richard-street, Woolwich. On Saturday, 2nd Aug., I missed from the shop window a black cloth Oxonian coat—it is an open window, the coat could be reached from the outside—I have since gone through the stock, and missed three pairs of trowsers, a waistcoat, and another coat.

Furness. I bought the black coat of him. Witness. He did not.

Furness. I did, and also the pair of trowsers for 12s., and he gave me a pint of ale, because I was a customer—this woman was with me at the time, and he said he would sooner serve twenty men than one woman, and I went into the back shop to try on the things. Witness, I have no recollection of it, it is not true—I did not give him any ale—these trowsers would not be sold for 12s. 6d., the price of them is 9s. 6d.

Roche. Q. Don't you recollect my asking you the price of some shirts, and you said half a crown? A. No, I have no recollection of showing you any shirts; I am sure I did not—I did not take your husband into the back shop to try on the trowsers—you did not give me a 5s. piece.

JOHN THORPE . I am assistant to Mr. Moore, a pawnbroker, in Church-street, Woolwich. I produce a Tweed coat, which I took in pledge on 20th July, for 4s., of the female prisoner—I think I may safely say she is the person—I also produce a pair of trowsers, pledged by her for 3s. 6d.,

on 3rd Aug., in the name of Mary Furness—I have also a pair of black trowsers—I did not take them in, I found them in our stock—I have a black cloth Oxonian coat, that was taken in by our young man—he is not here—he was not bound over.

Roche. I own to pledging one pair of trowsers, but no more.

JAMES WESTBROOK (policeman, 114). On 14th Aug. I searched the prisoner's house, No. 11, Myrtle-place, Albert-road, Woolwich—I did not know they were living there until I went—I found them living there as man and wife—I searched a box in their bed room, and found this waist-coft and pair of black trowsers (producing them)—I found twelve duplicates in a small box in the same room; four of them relate to the articles in question—I asked Furness where he got the trowsers and waistcoat from, and some other things that were there—he said his tailor made the suit of clothes up at the dockyard—I asked where the tailor lived—he said he did not know exactly—I did not take away the things then—I followed after Roche, she was taken on another charge—I afterwards went back to the room, and found the things—I had locked up the room, and had the key—there were a great quantity of things stolen from different shops, which I have got in my possession now.

JAMES LONG VINEER . re-examined. This is the Oxonian coat I missed, our private mark is in the sleeve lining—this grey Tweed coat is ours—we only had two of them in stock—it is marked—these other things are ours—they have not been sold—we keep a book, in which all sales are entered—there is an apprentice who sells, but I enter all the sales—I am always in the shop.

JOHN THORPE re-examined. These are the duplicates that refer to the articles I have produced.

Furness's Defence. I am a hard working man; last winter I was seven months out of work, but I have been at work lately in the docks, getting 25s. and 26s. a week; I gave it to this woman every Saturday night, and never asked her what she did with it; she kept a respectable home as far as she could.

Roche's Defence. I pawned nothing but what I pawned in my own name; and that I own to; if I had stolen them I should not have pawned them in my own name, and given the number of the house where I lived; I have been in a respectable place for two years, earning 12l. a year: I always put this man's money to the best advantage; I was never a thief, and never locked up in my life.


Reference Number: t18550917-884

884. GEORGE FURNESS and MARY ROCHE were again indicted for stealing 4 pairs of boots, value 18s.; the goods of Richard Burley.

RICHARD BURLEY . I am a boot maker, of High-street, Woolwich. On Saturday evening, 11th Aug., I missed a bundle of four pairs of boots from outside the door, about half past 5 o'clock—I had seen them there safe a few minutes previously—I had a boy at the door watching—he is not here.

JAMES WESTBROOK . (policeman, R 114). I went on 14th Aug. to the prisoner's house—I asked the female prisoner if her name was Furness—she said, "Yes"—I found her there alone—I told her I was a police officer, and took her into custody—I searched the house, and found two pairs of women's boots in a large box in the bed room—these (produced) are them—I asked her where she got them from—she said a bootmaker made them up in Woolwich—I believe I mentioned that to the Magistrate, but I do not think it was taken down—the Magistrate's clerk said, "Well, they probably

were made by a bootmaker"; and I do not think he put it down—she did not mention any bootmaker's name.

Roche. What I said was, that I bought them of a man up in High-street.

RICHARD BURLEY re-examined. These are my boots—I know them by private marks upon them—I have the same mark on all boots of this quality, but I had only had these in on the previous day—they are my own make—the boy is not allowed to sell in my absence.

Roche's Defence. I bought them for 6s. 6d. of a man who had a lot of carpet slippers and boots in a bag on his back: one pair I bought for myself, and the other pair for my sister.


Reference Number: t18550917-885

885. GEORGE FURNESS and MART ROCHE were again indicted for stealing 12 yards of printed cotton and 22 yards of mousseline de lane; the goods of William Evelyn.

GEORGE CREED . I am assistant to William Evelyn, a linen draper, in Woolwich. About 23rd July I missed two de lane dresses from inside the shop—I had previously missed a piece of print from outside the shop—I cannot exactly say the date—one of the dresses was a blue, and the other a green, with a little red flower—the green one was rather a particular one, we only had one of that pattern—Mr. Evelyn serves in the shop, and a young lady as well—they are not here—they had not been sold—I had seen them safe half an hour before I missed them—they were taken from just inside the door—these (produced) are them.

JAKES WESTBROOK . (policeman). I found these two dresses in the prisoner's room at the same time I found the other things—I asked Roche about them—she said she brought them from her mother's at Northampton—I told the Magistrate that—I took her away, and afterwards returned, and found Furness there—I told him his wife was in custody for stealing some prints—these prints were lying on the bed at the time—he said, "Why, she brought them from her mother's at Northampton"—he had set heard what his wife had said.

Roche's Defence. I was at Northampton a week before, and my husband's mother made me a present of them, and also a frock for the child.

GEORGE CRIED re-examined. There is no mark on them, it has been removed—they are the same patterns as those I lost, and folded in the same way.


Before Russell Gurney, Esq.

Reference Number: t18550917-886

886. CHARLES PRESSY and RICHARD WATSON , stealing 6 forks and 7 spoons, value 10l.; the goods of William Dornford, in his dwelling-house: to which

PRESSY PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 15.— Confined Six Months.

WATSON PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined Four Months.

Reference Number: t18550917-887

887. HENRY DAY and GEORGE HAVER , stealing 7s., the moneys of Susannah Sands; having been before convicted: to which

DAY PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 16.— Confined Twelve Months.

SUSANNAH SANDS . I keep a chandler's shop, in Lucas-street, Deptford. On the afternoon of 29th Aug. I was sitting in my back room, and heard a noise in my shop—I went into the shop, and saw Day on the counter and Haver near the door—they went out, and I followed them to the Water-works—I met Harris and afterwards lost sight of the prisoners—I did not see them again till they were brought in custody the next day—I feel quite

satisfied that Haver was one of the boys—I knew them by sight—I missed the money out of the till—I do not know what money there was, but they had taken the cup that the money was in, and one of the boys threw the cup down—I think there had been from 7s. to 10s. in it.

Haver. Q. How had you known me? A. By seeing you before.

CHARLES JAMES HARRIS . I live in Greenwich, and work at a grocer's shop. On 29th Aug. I met Mrs. Sands in the Water-works—before I met her I had met Day and Haver and another boy—I had not met any other boys after I met them before I met Mrs. Sands—there was no turning in the street where I met them and met her—they were running—I had known them before by sight.

SUSANNAH SANDS re-examined. There was another boy outside, but I could not recognize him.

HAVER— GUILTY .* Aged 16.— Confined Twelve Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-888

888. MARTIN KELLY , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin.

MESSRS. CLARK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.

ARABELLA MALLEY . My mother keeps a draper's shop in Francis-street, Woolwich. I saw the prisoner in the shop on 3rd Aug., in the evening—my sister was in the shop at the time—I was in the parlour, but I could see into the shop—I had seen him in the shop a fortnight before, when he came for some black silk, and offered me in payment a bad half-crown, I returned it to him, and he went away without purchasing anything—in consequence of that I watched him when he came on 3rd Aug.—I saw my sister serve him with something, and he put down some money on the counter—I then went into the shop, and there was a shilling lying on the counter—I did not notice whether it was good or bad—it was put into the till by my sister.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see me put down the shilling? A. Yes—I could not see it was bad at the time—I was in the parlour, I saw you through the glass door—you had a dark coat on the first time you came—the last time you had the same you have now—I did not tell you the shilling was bad, I did not notice it till the following morning.

SARAH MALLEY . I am sister of the last witness. I was in the shop on 3rd Aug., when the prisoner came for 1d. worth of black thread—I served him—he gave me a shilling—he put it on the counter—I gave him change while the shilling was on the counter—my sister came out of the parlour, and looked at the shilling—I put it in the till—I had no other shilling in the till—I did not take any other shilling that evening before I went to bed—the shop was closed directly after the prisoner went away—when I went to bed I took the shilling out of the till, and placed it on the mantel piece in the back room—in the morning I found it there—there was only one shilling there, I looked at it, and found it was bad—I placed it in a small drawer of the scales—there was no other money there, it was put there separate—about ten days afterwards I gave it to the policeman—I had not put any other money in the scale drawer in the meantime—I marked the shilling when the policeman came—I am sure I gave him the same shilling I took of the prisoner.

Prisoner. Q. What time was it I gave you that shilling? A. On, 3rd Aug.—no one told me to say so—I did not tell the Magistrate I did not know what day it was—you wore the same dress you have now—I looked at the shilling, but I did not notice it was bad—I saw you at the police court about three weeks afterwards.

Prisoner. I have witnesses to prove that I was at Hampstead, and not near the place at the time.

ROBERT ANDERSON . I keep the Belvoir Arms, at Plumstead. On Wednesday evening, 15th Aug., the prisoner came, about twenty minutes before 6 o'clock—I served him a pint of porter and a short pipe—he put a shilling on the counter, I looked at it, and found it was bad—I looked at him, and said, "I think this is not the first you have passed"; he was very bounceable about it, and said he earned it honestly—I said, "Where did you get it?" he said he took it in change at a public house near the Bench—he had before this given me a good shilling, and I gave him 10d. change—I detained him—he said, "Give me that bad shilling"; I refused to give it him—when he said he took the shilling at a public house near the Bench, I said, "If you are an honest man, if you will wait till I get my clothes on, I will go with you to the place"—he went a few paces from the bar, and I went round, and saw he was putting something into his mouth—I caught him by the neck with one hand, and struck him very hard with the other—I gave him to the constable—I marked the bad shilling, and gave it to the constable—it had been in my hand the whole time.

Prisoner. Q. When I gave you the bad shilling, did you not tell me to leave the house? A. Yes, because my wife was bad in bed, or else I should have been round and taken you before you were aware of it.

WILLIAM TWYMAN (police-sergeant, R 16). I took the prisoner at Mr. Anderson's, and received this bad shilling—the prisoner stated that he had been in a bacon shop in Woolwich for half a pound of bacon, that he gave them a half crown, and they gave him two shillings, and he must have got this shilling there—I received this bad piece from Miss Malley.

Prisoner. Q. Did you see the man that gave me the shilling? A. No—I went to where you told me you got it, to a bacon shop near the Bench beer shop—I went to the only one there was—you told me to go with you to the shop where you gave a half crown and got two shillings out—that was after I told you I had been to the shop, and they had not sold you bacon—a man came to the station, and identified you as coming on the Wednesday morning and asking him for a half crown for some small silver, which he gave you, but he knew nothing about your having any bacon.

WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These shillings are both bad.

Prisoner's Defence, I was in Hampstead on 3rd Aug.; I brought two witnesses to prove it; I believe they are here to-day, Mrs. Garvey and Mrs. Whitehead.

(These persons were called, but did not answer.)

GUILTY Aged 23.— Confined Nine Months .


Before Russell Gurney, Esq.

Reference Number: t18550917-889

889. MARY ANN POLLITT, MARY ANN CONTON , and SAMUEL WOODHOUSE , stealing 1 20l. and 7 5l. Bank notes; the property of Mary Parsons, from her person: and EDWARD FOLEY , feloniously receiving 1 20l. note, part of the same.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

MARY PARSONS . I am a widow, residing at Lewisham. On Thursday,

27th July, I came to London to receive some money, and to take my grand-child to school—I went to the London and Eastern Bank, in King William-street, where I received a 20l. note, and four 5l. notes—I had 55l. there, and a 25l. note, and seven 5l. notes—I put my pocket book in the pocket of my dress, and went towards London-bridge railway station—before I arrived there, the two female prisoners and a girl came up in front of me, and asked me the way to the Crystal Palace Railway—as I lifted up my hand to point, the girl stood close to my pocket—as I went to go away, she asked me what would be the fare—I said 2s. 6d., I thoughts—the other woman said, "Shall we return for the same?"—I said, "I do not know"—the little girl then pulled the woman, and said, "Come, let us ask, Eliza"—I passed on, and did not miss my money till I reached home—it was about half past 2 o'clock—next day I got the numbers of the notes from the bankers, and stopped them.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You had not seen the women and the little girl before? A. No—I am positive Conton is the one who addressed me first, and I believe Pollitt is the other, but I did not look at her face so much—they were differently dressed—my little grandson stood on one side.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. Have you always been positive? A. Yes—I never expressed a doubt when I saw the women—I saw them next when they were apprehended—it was not a month afterwards—I do not know the day—they were then very differently dressed—they were in custody at the Mansion House—I did not see them till they were placed in the dock—what the little girl said might have been, "Let us ask elsewhere"—there was a man at a distance, and a boy cleaning shoes—it was not raining, but it had been.

HENRY FREDERICK WESTON COWLEY . I am nine years old. I was with my grandmother on London-bridge when the two women came and spoke—those are the women at the bar.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You only remember one, do you? A. I think I can remember one, Sir, the one nearest to me—I do not think I remember the other.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. Have you talked to your grandmother about this? A. Yes—I was at the Mansion House, and I thought I saw one of them there, the one on this side—they were all standing in a row before the Magistrate—I went with my grandmother and Mr. Isaacs, a policeman—we talked about it going along, and he told me that I was going to the Lord Mayor to identify the women, and when I got there there were two men standing in front—these women were pointed out as the women I was to identify.

PHŒBE WILLIAMSON . I am a widow, of No. 2, Sidney-place, Lewisham. On the afternoon of 27th July I was near the railway station, London-bridge—it rained very fast at times—I was accosted by two women that day—I am certain of the one nearest me, and I think the other is the other—they asked me if I could tell them the way to the Dover Railway—I said, "No", and the taller one came and said, "Cannot you tell us the way?"—I said, "No"—they had a little girl with them, who was close to the side of my pocket—I suspected something, crossed over, and got away from them—it was about 20 minutes past 2 o'clock—I did not see Mrs. Parsons—I did not know she was in London.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. Did they appear to be inquiring their way in earnest? A. They did not appear in a very great hurry—I did not lose anything—Mrs. Parsons is a friend of mine.

RICHARD ADYE BAILY . I am a clerk in the Issue Department of the Bank of England. I produce two cancelled 5l. notes, Nos. 37522 and 37523, both dated 3rd July, 1855—they were paid into the Bank of England on 30th July—I know that from this extract from the books, which I made myself.

JOHN SCOTT . I am a cashier to the Eastern and London Banking Company, No. 36, King William-street On 27th July I paid Mrs. Parsons 42l. 19s. 3d.—(looking at a book) this entry is in my writing—I paid her a 20l. note, No. 28956, and four 5l. notes, Nos. 37522, 37523, 37524, and 37525.

THOMAS BELL . I am shopman to Mr. Thurston, a linen draper, of Hackney-road. On 27th July Conton came there to purchase a parasol—it came to 3s. 11 1/2 d.—she gave me a 5l. note, and asked me if I could change her a 10l. note—I looked at it, and told her it was only a 5l. note—she said that she had another, and I gave her the change—I asked her what name, and she said, "Mrs. Mitchell, 36, Cumberland-street"—I wrote that on the back of it—this is it, and here is my writing on it—she asked if I could change her another—I gave it to my master, and he gave her change, in my presence—I know it was a 5l. note—I saw no other woman—Mr. Thurabon banks with Rogers, Olding, and Co.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. What was the time when she came? A. About a quarter to 4 o'clock, I think—I said before that it was half past 3, or from that to a quarter to 4 o'clock—she did not give me the note, and ask me to give her 10l.—I have been there three years and a half—I have no recollection of her dealing there on and off for the last eighteen months—I do not remember having seen her before; she may have been there without my having served her.

IRVING WATSOH . I am a detective police sergeant, of Manchester. On 24th Aug., I saw the two female prisoners there together, and from information I had received, I took them to the station house, and told them they were charged with stealing 55l. from a person in London—Pollitt said, "I know nothing about it"—Conton said, "If she says I stole it, she tells a lie"—they were locked up, and I afterwards heard Pollitt say to Conton, "I wish I had never known you"—I brought them to London, and took them to Bow-lane station—they refused to give any address—Conton went by the name of Conneton.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Do you know whether Pollitt has a sister in Manchester? A. She said that she had, and that she had come home to her.

Cross-examined by MR. W. J. PAYNE. Q. Do you know that Conton's mother lives at Manchester? A. I do not—no letter was found on her—I have never mentioned this conversation to any one before—I was examined before the Magistrate, at the Mansion House, and stated all about this conversation—it was taken down, and my depositions were read over to me.

HENRY ISAACS . I am constable of the bankers' clearing house, Post-office-court, Lombard-street—previously to anybody being in custody, I went to No. 36, Cumberland-street, Hackney-road, but could find no such person as Mrs. Mitchell there—Mr. Parsons described the two females to me, and I made inquiries, and went to Manchester—I have seen the female prisoners together many times in the neighbourhood of Shoreditch and Gracechurch-street—I have known Conton as Dibby, and Pollitt passed as Mrs. Mitchell—at the Bow-lane station, I asked them if they had any clothes in London—Pollitt said, "I have two shawls at Mrs. Palmer's"—Conton said, "The

clothes are not mine now"—they lived in the top front room—I found this box, which is directed, "Mary Conton", at Great Cambridge-street produced)—one said, "I have two shawls there"; and the other said, "The things there are not mine now."

ISRAEL WATTS (policeman, N 184). I know the female prisoners, they lived at 11 A, Great Cambridge-street, Hackney-road.

Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How do you know they resided there? A. I have frequently seen them go in and out—I never saw them inside the house, but I know that Conton lived there—she was confined there some time back, but Pollitt I have only seen there two or three times.

GEORGE RUSSELL (City policeman. 34). On 8th Aug., I was on duty at the Bank of England, and was called to the chief cashier's office, where I found a man named Bernstein—this 20l. note produced, was shown to me; there is paper pasted all over the back of it—I asked Bernstein some questions, and from his answers I went with him to No. 99, Shoreditch, to a public house, kept by Foley, who was not at home, but we waited about an hour, till he returned—on his return, I asked Bernstein, in Foley's presence, if that was the person of whom he had received the note, and he said that it was—Foley said that he had given him the note—I went inside the house, and asked him of whom he got it; he said he had not given anything for it, but he had gone out to get change for two men who came to the bar, and had 6d. worth of gin—I asked him if he knew them—he said that he knew one of them, whose name was Webb, but he could not tell where he lived—I had previously told him that when I came I had seen two men who I knew to be thieves, and skittle sharpers at his bar—one of them was Woodhouse, but I only knew the other by sight—after some consultation with his wife, he said that they were the two men of whom he had the note—I told him I should hold him responsible, and took him into custody—after a short time he said, "Well, whatever happens to me, it serves me right; I have been repeatedly cautioned by the little butcher over the way, to have no dealings with these men; this is the first time I have had any"—he stated before that, that he had been waiting at the Auction Mart tavern for Bernstein, to bring him the change for the note.

Cross-examined by MR. TALFOURD SALTER. Q. Bernstein, I believe, told you Foley's name as the person he received the note from? A. Yes, and I at once accompanied him to Foley's house—Foley did not hesitate in the slightest when I asked him these questions, nor did he by his manner at all suggest to me that he was a guilty man, except by the company that I saw at the house—it is a public house—he has been about two months in the house, I believe—it is in Shoreditch—after consulting his wife, he volun-teered a statement to me that he was waiting while the note was changed, and Bernstein had told me that he was waiting there—Foley has done his best to find out the guilty party; he has offered 5l. reward—the bills are at the station—this (produced) is one of them—his information has been useful to me—he has assisted me to the best of his power—he also told me that the men came sometimes two or three times a day, and sometimes stopped away two or three days together—Foley was bailed out at the police station.

AARON BERNSTEIN . I am a farrier, of No. 4, Hemming's-lane, City. On Wednesday, 8th Aug., I called at Foley's public house, No. 99, Shoreditch, because he owed me 2l. 10s.—I asked him for the money, and he said that if I would get change for a 20l. note he would pay me—he gave me this note (produced)—I could not get change, so persuaded him that he

had better go to the Bank of England—he did not go with me to the Bank of England, he went to the Auction Mart to get something to drink, and I went and asked whether the note would be changeable, because the number was gone—I presented it, and it was stopped—I then went back with the officer.

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How long have you known Foley? A. Three or four years—he owed me 2l. 10s. for a boa and a pair of cuffs, which I had supplied to him going on for three months ago—I had asked him for it two or three times prior—I went there on this day for the purpose of asking him—I went between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning—I did not particularly notice whether there was anybody in the place—I did not go into the parlour, I was standing at the counter—I do not know where he took the note from, but he gave it into my hand—he put his coat on, and went with me—he did not show me the note till he got to Houndsditch—I did not see his wife at the shop.

Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. you say that there were people there, but you did not notice who they were? A. Yes, I passed them at the end of the bar to ask Foley for my bill—I only passed through the general bar in my way out again with Foley—he only kept me while he put his. hat and coat on—on my return I did not notice whether the same people were there, but I saw two persons who afterwards left; while Foley was away—we went out to other places before I went to the Bank to get change—I suppose it was in consequence of the condition of the note that I was refused change, because I was refused by a particular friend of mine, a neighbour of mine—before I left Foley at the Auction coffee house, I went and saw a person named Hurley at the Bank—Foley was not with me—I. went and asked if the note would be negotiable, in the presence of Russell, the officer—Hurley came back with* me, it was his dinner hour; he saw Foley there, and said that he thought the note was negotiable.

JAMES BRAKNAN (police inspector, G). On 15th Aug., between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning, from information I received, I went with a constable to No. 19, Sarah-street, Kingaland-road, and found Woodhouse in bed—I told him I belonged to the police, and came to take him into custody for being concerned with others in stealing a quantity of money and bank notes in July last, that a man named Foley, a publican, was in custody for receiving one of the notes, and that he, Woodhouse, was recently found dealing with one of them, a 20l. note—he said, "I do not know what you are talking about, I know nothing about it, nor do I think you know what you are talking about yourself"—I told him to dress himself and said, "Pray how long do you intend to keep me here?" he said, "You know You must not ask me questions, it is not your duty"—after a time he was dressed, and we proceeded along Kingsland-road towards Shoreditch church—he said, "Where are you going to take me to?" I said, "To Foley's public house and if you are not identified you shall not be detained"—he made no answer for some time, but then said, "You can only make a witness of me, I will be a witness if you like; we went last Wednesday week with Tom what's his-name; I do not know his name, but Ted Foley knows him for the last twenty years; we asked him whether he would buy a 20l. note; we told him it was queer; he said that he did not care a d—; we told him not to take it to the Bank or it would burn him; I do not think he took the note to the Bank himself, he sent somebody else; he said he would not be gone three quarters of an hour, and he was gone two hours and a half; the note was an old ripped up thing."

Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was his wife in bed with him? A. Yes—I think he asked me to go down stairs while she dressed, but I did not—I remained in the room while she was dressing—he did not go down stairs till I went down—I think he more than once asked me to leave the room while his wife was dressing, and I declined to do so—he did not say that it was a shame—it was in the street that he made this statement—two constables were with me—I think one of them might have heard it—his name is Elams—he is not here—he was as near to me as I am to you—I did not take down what was said—I gave my evidence before the Magistrate on the very same day—the other constable was not examined—I took Woodhouse to Foley's house—we got there about ten minutes to 8 o'clock.

MR. COOPER. Q. Had you seen any of the prisoners together before? A. I have seen Conton with Woodhouse, and have seen the two women together, but not with Woodhouse—that was since June.

MR. RIBTON. Q. How long before had you seen one of the women and Woodhouse together? A. That was before June—I apprehended them in Aug.—it was before her confinement.

Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER Q. Was this conversation, which you have repeated about Foley, after you had mentioned Foley's name in connection with his apprehension? A. Yes, when I first apprehended him I mentioned Foley's name—I know the house Foley keeps—he has been there a very short time—he previously resided at Kingsland, or Dalston—he kept a public house there—he came to me when he was out on bail, and has been assisting me to apprehend another person concerned—he called at the station, and left me some bills.

MR. RIBTON. Q. You said that Woodhouse said, "We went with Ten what's-his-name; Ted Foley knows him for these twenty years, and "we asked him", did he say, "We asked him", or Tom asked him? A. No, it was "We asked him"—I take great notice—I am very particular—I am positive that it was we"—I do not think anybody takes more notice of what prisoners say than I do, and I think it necessary that all constables should—I do not think there is a mistake on my part—my deposition was read over to me and I signed it—such things as this have escaped my notice, and I have afterwards corrected them before the Judge—I did not correct this when it was read over—I know why depositions are read over, but they are read over in a hurried manner, and witnesses are ushered into the witness box rapidly.

MARY PARSONS re-examined. One of the women wore a shawl, and the other a mantle—the one who spoke to me first had a shawl on—afterwards, when they came up from Manchester, they were dressed in light things.

MR. PAYNE. Q. Was that a month afterwards? A. No—I do not always wear the same dress.

COURT. Q. Was their dress improved? A. Yes, they were much more fashionably dressed at the Mansion House.

COURT to GEORGE RUSSELL. Q. Do you know whether there is such a person as Webb? A. Yes; the description given of him exactly answers the description of the man who was standing with Woodhouse at the bar of Foley's public house—I know of no person named Webb distinct from him.

COURT to JAMES BRANNAN. Q. Do you know anything of a man named Webb, answering the description in this bill? A. Yes, and I have used every endeavour to find him—I know the fact, independently of what was told me by Foley.

(Foley received an excellent character).


WOODHOUSE— GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Twelve Months .

CONTON— GUILTY . Aged 21.—The was further charged with having been before convicted.

IRVING WATSON re-examined. I produce a certificate—(read: Manchester, Feb.. 1853; Mary Ann Connection, convicted of stealing 1 purse, and 5l. 4s. 8d. in money, from the person; Confined six months>)—Conton is the person—she was in my custody.

GUILTY.*— Confined Twelve Months .

Before Mr. Recorder.

Reference Number: t18550917-890

890. TIMOTHY BRYANT, MICHAEL FARRELL , and THOMAS CASEY , feloniously cutting and wounding Thomas Dudman, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.

THOMAS DUDMAN . I am a carpenter, of No. 2, Grove-place, South-street, Camberwell On 21st Aug. I met King at the Artichoke public house, High-street, Camberwell—we had some gin and water together at the bar with Fox—I heard a noise in the tap room, and was struck down—I did not see who by—I recollect no more after that, but I was struck on my head in six different places—Mr. Flower, the surgeon, attended me, and I was in his hands three weeks and three days.

JAMES KING . I am a gardener, and live at the Greyhound, at Dul with. I was drinking at the bar of the Artichoke, with Fox and Dudman, between 11 and 12 o'clock—at about five minutes to 12 o'clock I heard a ft row in the tap room, and directly the door came open I was knocked back-wards—the first blow was on my left eye, which was cut—I think it was done with a quart pot—I fell against the door leading from the bar—I got up again to see for my cap, and got another blow on my ear, which rendered me insensible, and I recollect no more—I had had no quarrel with anybody—I saw neither of the prisoners there—I did not see the man who struck me, it was all done so suddenly.

JAMES GIBSON . I live at Nun's Gate-cottage, Peekham. I was going into the tap room at the Artichoke about 12 o'clock on this night, and saw a man there, but was hit with a quart pot before I could see who it was—the blood ran down my back, and I went into the bar, and felt the gash—I went into the tap room again to know who it was, and before I could get in I was pulled down to the floor by my hair, and several men kicked me—I saw Casey in the tap room, with a quart pot in his hand, but did not see him hit any one—that was before I was knocked down.

CHARLES FOX . I am a lamplighter, of No. 3, Well's-cottages, North-fields, Peckham. I was with King and Dudman, drinking at the bar—I went there with King, and Dudman and his wife came in afterwards—we had a quartern of brandy, and then King fetched 4d. worth of gin and cold water—we put it on the table—there was some one dancing, and then it was all gone—I said, "This will not do; we had better go to the bar, Jem—the people in the room could hear that, if they paid attention—we went to the bar, and had 4d. worth more gin and water—Dudman came in before it was finished—1 then had half a pint of gin to take home, the bottle would not hold it, and I emptied a little out of it into a glass—I was as sober as I am at present—I had been at work all day, and had been waiting very late for my money—I had not had above two quarterns of gin all day, and the share of a quartern of brandy between three of us, and there was water with it—I heard a row in the tap room, and after some time missed Dudman and King from my side for several minutes, and then I

saw Casey strike Dudman, and saw Dudman on the ground bleeding from his head, so that I could not recognize his features—he was trying to get up into a sitting position—I saw Casey strike Dudman with a quart pot when he was in a sitting position—he hit him with the pot in this way (holding his hand over his head)—I did not see the effect of the blow, as his head was bleeding before, and I could not tell whether the last blow caused blood—he was assisted up, and staggered out of the tap room, and then I saw that it was Dudman—the policeman came—there were from six to ten men armed with quart pots—I saw Bryant with a pot in his hand, but did not see him do anything with it—when he was taken into custody there wag a a patch of blood on the thigh of his trowsers—Dudman had been drinking a little, he was affected by liquor—I should say that the men with the pots were sober—Casey and Bryant did not appear to be drunk.

Casey. Q. What time of the night was it? A. Probably morning—I saw Dudman struck down against the coal box, looking out as if he was expecting another blow—I saw you strike him—I was then looking in at the door, which was partly open.

COURT. Q. Where was Casey when he struck him? A. Just inside the tap room—he fell down in the bar—if the door had been opened, perhaps he might have stumbled in—when I missed Dudman, he had gone into the tap room.

GEORGE JONES . I live at Artichoke-place, Camberwell. I was at the Artichoke on the night in question—I look after omnibus horses, and was going to have half a pint of beer—I saw Dudman coming up the steps as I went in, but I did not know him—I opened the door of the tap room, but did not go in—I saw Dudman, King, and Fox there—there was a row between men and women, they all appeared to be quarrelling—King was not quarrelling with any of them—I saw Casey with a quart pot very much bent—he hit King with it on the side of the head, and knocked him down, and then he hit him again on the arm with the pot, and kicked him once or twice—I saw Bryant standing at his side with a quart pot in his hand, but did not see him use it—I saw him kick King once.

Bryant. Q. Did you see me with a pot in my hand? A. Yes; you had it up, not as if you were drinking, but as if you meant to do something with it.

JAMES KING re-examined. I never went into the tap room, to the best of my knowledge—after I was struck the first time, I lost my recollection, and do not know where I was—I was struck at the bar, and if I went into the tap room afterwards, I have no recollection of it—I was as sober as I am now, with the exception of what you have heard stated—I had very little of the brandy and gin.

CHARLES ALLINGHAM . I live at No. 8, Cornelius-place, Caniberwell. I was outside the Artichoke, heard a row in the tap room, ran round into the back yard, looked through the tap room window, which was open, and saw Casey and Bryant ill using Dudman and King with quart pots—I could not tell which struck which—I am sure it was Dudman and King, because there was nobody in such a state as them, and I could not tell who they were till they were washed—they were struck on the head and arms—there was a tap room full of women; one woman had a shovel, and was flaring it about all over her head.

Casey. Q. What time was it? A. Twelve o'clock, or a little after—the window was wide open—you were both by the fire place when the men were struck—they looked as if they had been dragged there—they were on the

ground, and could hardly get up—they looked weak, and were smothered with blood, their coats, shirts, and everything else.

ELIZABETH SMITH . I am the wife of William Smith, a policeman. I went to the Artichoke with him at a few minutes before 12 o'clock—I went into the tap room, and saw Bryant and Casey—Farrell was standing at the entrance of the door, Casey and Bryant had empty quart pots in their hands—Casey's pot was in this position, as if he was going to strike some one, but I did not see him do so—I heard a row, and saw Dudman brought in, very much covered in blood, and I did not know him till afterwards, when I saw him at the station house—I said, "Good God! who is this?" and with that Farrell kicked me to the ground, and I feel the effects of it to this day—he was standing where I saw him before—when Dudman was brought out, Bryant and Casey were still in the tap room with quart pots—I could see in, the door was open—they struck nobody, but Casey had got a quart pot up, as if to strike somebody—after Farrell had kicked me, he ran from the house—I did not see any pot in his hand.

Bryant. Q. Had you a fire shovel in your hand? A. No, nor a man's hat—I was not in the tap room ten minutes altogether.

Farrell. Q. Did you see me at the Artichoke? A. Yes, standing at the door, and when I saw you at the police station, you had shifted your handkerchief to a black one—you kicked me on the spine, and I was in the hands of a doctor—I cannot say that you were drunk—I could not see whether any one was drunk or sober.

Farrell. I was between Kingston and Camberwell at that very hour, on ray way home; this is the red handkerchief I was wearing at the time (producing it).

COURT. Q. What time did you see Farrell there? A. About the time of shutting the house up.

Farrell. Q. Did not you give me in charge? A. Yes, at the station house—you came there to see what was the row—you ran from the Arti—choke to the station house—I stood there seeing the people, and gave you in charge for kicking me—it was then 20 minutes or half post 12 o'clock.

COURT. Q. Had the man whom you call Farrell a red handkerchief on? A. Yes—when I saw him at the station and gave him in charge, it was not because he had a red handkerchief on—I knew his features, and said, "You villain!" and gave him in charge.

CHARLES FOX re-examined. I said before the Magistrate that I could not be certain whether I saw Farrell there, but I identified him by a red handkerchief, and the next morning he changed his handkerchief, and another man put it on—I believe him to be the man I saw, but should Hot like to swear it—it was through my mentioning the red handkerchief at the station that they changed handkerchiefs.

GEORGE OWEN . I am a potman. I found these three quart pots (produced) at this public house, half an hour after the row was ever—here is blood on them now.

GEORGE WARMAN (policeman, P 210). I heard cries of "Murder!" and "Police!" coming towards the station—I ran up, and saw Dudman standing bleeding, and two of his friends holding him up—as I was going down the steps to the tap room, I saw King just outside the house, bleeding from the head—I went into the tap room, and found a great many people with quart pots in their hands, and several couples fighting in all parts of the tap room—I saw Casey there, I think, but should not like to swear it—I took Bryant outside, and was put upon by six of them—1 drew my truncheon, but could not move till my brother constable relieved me—King

and Dudman were outside—we went to the station, and the prisoners were identified—Bryant had a patch of blood on his thigh—he was not wounded that I saw—I took him to the station, and when he was taken before the Magistrate, there was a piece torn out of his trowsers, where the blood had been—he had been drinking when I took him, but knew what he was about.

ALFRED CASTLEMAN (policeman). I was present when Mrs. Smith pave Farrell in charge—he had a red handkerchief on—it was about 1 o'clock in the morning—he was standing outside the station, and she said, "That man with the red handkerchief on I can swear was in the row—when he was brought before the Magistrate he had a black handkerchief on, and Casey had a red one—I said, "How is it that you have changed your handkerchiefs?"—he said, "Why, may we not do as we like about that?"—I took the red handkerchief off Casey's neck when the prisoners were committed, and gave it to Farrell.

Farrell. Q. Was not it half past 2 o'clock when you took me? A. No; as near 1 o'clock as possible.

JOHN SWANN FLOWER . I am surgeon to the P division of police, and live at Pine House, Camberwell-green. About 10 minutes past 1 o'clock, on the morning of 21st Aug., I was called up—I looked at the clock as I came out—it was then not a quarter past—I went to Camberwell station house, which is about 100 yards from my house—(it is about ten miles from Camberwell to Kingston)—I found Dudman, King, and a man named Gibson, there—Dudman had six scalp wounds, penetrating to the bone, but the bone was not fractured—they might have been inflicted by these pots, or by any blunt instrument—he was in such a faint, exhausted condition that I could hardly say in what state he was—I attribute that to the immense loss of blood—he had a bruise on the right shoulder, and another on the back, but not of importance,—the wounds on the head were all dangerous—it is a remarkable thing that they all healed so kindly—two of them were near the temple, which is in some respects more dangerous.

Bryant's Defence. I went to the house for five minutes, to have some beer; the company there kicked up the row, but I was not in their company; I was just going to leave, when one of the men fell against me, and the blood came on to my trowsers; when the police came, I told them that I was standing, watching an opportunity to get out; I went out, and was in this man's house half an hour, and the police came up and said, "Take him up; there is blood on his trowsers"; the men who did it are at liberty; 1 am innocent.

Casey's Defence. I was with a couple of young females at Camberwell fair; we went to have a drop of beer at the Artichoke; there were a lot of people there; some of them were dancing; one of these young men came and sat on our table, and spilled some of the beer; some one told him to come off the table, and to keep to his company; a boy, between fifteen and sixteen, came and shoved him off; he put his hand to one of them, and shoved him towards his company; they struck one another, and that was the commencement of the row; they had got pots, and everybody stood up and went on one side, for fear of getting struck; I do not know how the business happened, but when the room was cleared out, we went out, and were taken; I never hit one of the men, and never saw this man (Farrell) in the tap room.

BRYANT— GUILTY of unlawfully Wounding. Aged 28.— Confined Three Months .

CASEY— GUILTY of unlawfully Wounding. Aged 23.— Confined Five Months .


Reference Number: t18550917-891

891. THOMAS JONES , robbery on John Bagley, and stealing from his person 1 watch, and 1 watch guard chain, value 34l.; his goods.

MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN BAGLEY . I reside at No. 22, Charles-square, Hoxton, and live on my property. On 28th Aug., about 2 o'clock in the morning, I was in High-street, Southwark, coming from St. George's Church, towards London-bridge—a woman was telling me a pitiable tale in King-street, but was not within eleven inches or two feet of me—at the moment she went from me, I was iron bound, and was bent down by some one behind—I was seized round my throat, and was hurt severely—I felt it afterwards—while this person was holding my throat, there was one person on my right, and one on my left—they began pulling at my chain—it was all done in a moment—they wrenched off my buttons—the person on my right was pulling at my watch over my head—I struggled with all my might, and held my waistcoat—I held my watch as long as I could, till the one on my left wrenched my hand back—that was the prisoner—in doing that my thumb was very much out by my chain—I am quite sure the prisoner is the person who wrenched my hand away—they got away with my watch and chain—I gave 24l. for the watch, and the chain cost me 11l., or some few shillings under—two of the men went to the right, and the prisoner went to the left—I pursued him, and never lost sight of him—he had got a crutch, like that which he has now—I got up to him, and he said, "What do you want? if you do not go off I will do for you"—I said, "You shall for me, or I let you; if you will walk till I get an officer, I will let you"—we walked on till I saw a police-man, and I said, "I will give this thief in charge"—we only walked about twice the length of this Court.

Prisoner. Q. On the night that I met you at the top of King-street, did not you say, "There is the villains, there they go?" A. No—I told you that you were one of the parties who had robbed me—I did not turn round and say", Very likely you are one of them, and I shall take you whether you are or not, for I can see nobody else"—when I ran you down, and captured you, you gave yourself into custody to the policeman—you can run like a young roe—I was not intoxicated, I had only had a little from one glass of brandy and water—I drank some water at the station house, but not half of a half pint—I did not charge you with robbing me of thirty-six guineas as well—I knew very well that you had not got the watch and chain: if I had gone after those who had, they would have killed me.

COURT. Q. Did you give an alarm? A. I had not the power, and neither of the men spoke; it was all done in four or five seconds—at the time 1 followed the policeman, I called "Stop thief!"—I was making a little on him, and he turned round with all the impudence he could—I followed him about 200 yards, the street was empty—they knocked my hat off, and it was brought to the station a quarter of an hour after.

JOHN AMOY (policeman, M 65). On 28th Aug., about half past 2 o'clock, I was in the Borough, and met Mr. Bagley and the prisoner—Mr. Bagley gave the prisoner into custody for assaulting him and assisting in stealing a gold watch and chain—the prisoner said that he knew nothing about the robbery, but he thought he knew who one of the thieves was—1 took him to the station—the prosecutor was quite sober.

Prisoner. Q. Did I say, or did I not, "I will give myself in charge!" A. No.

Prisoner's Defence. I was coming over London Bridge, and met a policeman; I asked him what time it was; he said, "About 5 minutes to

2 o'clock"; I said, "I must begin getting home"; I am a tailor, and had taken some work home; when I got to the top of King-street, I met this gentleman with no hat, and running as fast as he could; I said, "What is the matter?" he said, "I have been robbed"; I said, "There they go, I suspect"; he said, "Whether they go, or not, I shall take you, whether you are one or not"; I said, "Keep your hands off me, but if you are willing, go along with me to the station house"; I went till we saw a police-man, and the prosecutor said, "I will give this man in charge for stealing my watch and chain"; he took me to the station, and the inspector asked him what he charged me with; he did not know what to say, and the inspector said that he would not take the charge, and then said, "Will you charge him with stealing your watch and chain?" he said, "I will"; they searched me, and found nothing but a tobacco box, a thimble, and a needle; the evidence he gave in the morning was, that I knew the parties, and if I did not tell it would be the worse for me; and the next time he came up, he said that I held his hands whilst his watch was taken; I denied it, and was put back for trial; if the parties had his watch and chain, why did not he run after them? anybody in the street would be liable to be taken; I know no more about it than a child.

GUILTY . **† Aged 23.

(Two police officers stated that the prisoner had been sentenced to ten years transportation, and was out on a ticket of leave.)

Transported for Fourteen Years .

Reference Number: t18550917-892

892. GEORGE WHEELER , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Henry Ell wood and another, at Christ Church, Surrey, and stealing therein 6 spoons, I seal, 1 pair of boots, and other articles value 4l. 2s., and 7s. in money, his property: to which he.


(The prosecutor, who was also his master, gave him a good character.)

Confined Twelve Months .

Before Russell Gurney, Esq.

Reference Number: t18550917-893

893. HARRIET GREGORY was indicted for bigamy.

MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.

MARIA GREGORY . I am the wife of John Gregory, and live at No. 38, Hart-street, Covent-garden. On 7th July, 1850, I was in the parish church of St. Ann's, Soho—the prisoner was there and was married to my son, Thomas Gregory—he is alive, I saw him a few minutes ago.

Cross-examined by MR. LANGFORD. Q. What is he? A. A portmantean maker—I am sure I cannot say how he used this woman—I visited their house once or twice—he used her kindly as far as I know—when she was last confined, I was with her—he treated her very kindly while I was there—the child was three months old when it died—it is about eighteen months since she was last confined—I was backwards and forwards—my son's treatment of her on the third day was very kind—he did not leave her, she went away of her own accord in Nov., and went to her mother's—I know Hannah Nash, she used to work for my son—I do not know where she lives—I do not know that at the present time, and for a long time she has been living with my son—I do not know that my son is living, and has been living, with Hannah Nash—he used to live with me—he does not live with me now—he docs not live with Nash to my knowledge.

Q. Do you know whether your son turned this woman out of doors? A. He

did not—she left him, and came to me for shelter, and slept with me three weeks—she came as my son was out of work—she said she would go to service till things turned better—she went to service for three weeks, and then came to me again—I said it was not convenient—I am sure my son did not receive the money that she earned in service—he is not in the habit of getting tipsy, he is very sober.

MR. CAARTEN. Q. What was the general conduct of your son to her? A. They were very comfortable, as far as I know—I used to call to see how B. they were—she never said he was unkind.

MR. LANGFORD. Q. She has one child? A. Yes—three yean old—she has not been allowing 3s. a week for the support of that child—she allowed nothing—I have supported it myself.

MARY ANN PORTMOUTH . I live at No. 11, Great White Lion-street, Seven Dials. I was present at Lambeth church, on 17th April, as bridesmaid to the prisoner—she was married that day to Charles Blakely—I have not seen him since the day he was married—I am sure the prisoner is the person who was married to him—he was married in the name of Charles Blakely—I did not know him before.

Cross-examined. Q. Do you know Thomas Gregory? A. I never knew him till I came to London, when I was married to my husband, five months ago yesterday—my name was Mary Ann Fazer before I was married—I have only had one husband—I know nothing at all about Thomas Gregory's conduct towards this woman—I did not know that she had been married to Gregory before she was married last.

ROBERT BRADLAY (policeman, C 182). I produce the register of the marriage of the prisoner with Thomas Gregory in 1851—I got it from the husband—I have been to the church and saw the clerk—he said it was given to the husband that day—I did not see the register—I produce the register of 17th April, at Lambeth—I got it from the husband—he produced both before the Magistrate—I have not been to Lambeth Church—I took the prisoner into custody on 29th Aug.—she was given into custody by her first husband, Thomas Gregory—she said it was true she was married to Blakely, at New Lambeth Church—she said the person who gave her into custody was her first husband, Thomas Gregory.

Cross-examined. Q. Did she say that voluntarily to you? A. Yes.

JURY. Q. Did she say Blakely, or did she give the Christian name? A. She said Charles Blakely.

(Fanny Portsmouth, the prisoner's mother, and Ann Baldwin, stated, the prisoner had been very cruelly treated by her husband.)

GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Seven Days .

Reference Number: t18550917-894

894. DANIEL DRISCOLL , robbery upon John Tuthill, and stealing from his person 1 watch, value 3l., his goods.

MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN TUTHILL . I am master of the Mary schooner, lying at Pickle Herring-wharf, Tooley-street. On Saturday night, 8th Sept., I was standing on the shore, waiting for the men to put the ladder down the side of the ship—it was a little before 8 o'clock—the prisoner came up to me—I had not seen him before—he said it was a very fine night, and talked about different affairs, and asked if the ship was finished—he seized my watch, took it out of my pocket, and broke the chain—I seized him, and be got hold of me and held me down on the ground—I held him till my mate nearly got to us, but he got away, and left his cap.

Cross-examined by MR. TALFOURD SALTER. Q. Where was the schooner lying? A. On the shore, on quite dry ground—ray mate was walking the deck at the time, and came down the ladder to me—I walked down a few steps—the vessel was fifteen or sixteen feet from the steps—I was standing between the stairs and the ship—the stairs are frequently used by persons going to vessels—a great many vessels were lying about there—I cannot recollect seeing any one but the prisoner there—there was no one—there was a gas light close to where the watch was taken from me—the light was at the foot of the steps—I had only proceeded a few feet from the steps—the prisoner followed me—he got me down, and it was just before my mate came he got away—my mate got hold of his coat as he stumbled in getting up the stairs—he had turned to run away before my mate came—they ran the same direction, and the prisoner got away.

MR. RIBTON. Q. How long was he speaking to you before he took your watch? A. It might be a minute—I had an opportunity of seeing his face—I am sure he is the man.

SAMUEL KNIGHT . I was on board the ship on Saturday night, 8th Sept—I saw this man snatch the watch from my master, and they both fell together—I was standing in the vessel at the time about ten yards from them—I got down the vessel's side, and went up to them, but a man tot me up again—I went to where they were struggling on the ground, but the prisoner got away before I could get down—I did not run after him—I was about ten yards from him—I had an opportunity of seeing this man—I saw his face while he was getting the watch away from my master—they were nine or ten yards from the gas light—I am sure the prisoner is the man.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to the Police Court? A. Yes, with the last witness—I saw the prisoner there—I was examined—I did not sign a paper—I did not talk the matter over with the last witness—I was asked if the prisoner was the man—I gave an answer, but I did not sign any paper—the first I saw was my master and some man, struggling together—I stopped to look at them—I did not stop long—I had not tine to get down the steps before the man ran away—I did not run up the steps after him—his back was turned when I got down.

MR. RIBTON. Q. you were examined at the Police Court? A. Yes—I told them what I have told you—I went away before my master left the Court—I ran on board the ship.

JURY. Q. Where was the gas light? A. At the bottom of the steps—it was behind them as I looked at them—I am quite sure it was the prisoner—I should have recollected him again.

COURT. Q. How soon afterwards did you see him? A. The same night—he was in custody when I saw him—he laid on the bench—I was taken to see if he was the person—I said it was him directly I went up.

FREDERICK HOUGH (policeman, M 112). On Sunday morning, 9th Sept, I apprehended the prisoner at No. 5, Vine-street, Tooley-street—he was in bed—I told him the charge—he said he knew nothing about it—after Knight gave his evidence, he went out of the Court, and when we looked he was gone—the depositions were not taken for three or four hours after he gave his evidence—I searched the prisoner's room—there was a cap in it—a cap was brought to the station, but I forgot to bring it here.

Cross-examined. Q. Did you find the watch? A. No—the mate was examined, and swore to the prisoner—he is not here—he was not bound over.


Reference Number: t18550917-895

895. FREDERICK NEWLAND , unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin: to which he PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months .

Reference Number: t18550917-896

896. JAMES CHIVERS was indicted for a like offence.

MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution, ANN SMITH. My husband keeps the Royal Oak, at Vauxhall. On Thursday, 6th Sept, the prisoner came between 6 and 7 o'clock—he asked for a glass of ale; he then said, "Have you any stout?"—I sid, "Yes"—he gave me half a crown—I gave him 2s. 4d. change—I had not sufficient change in the till—I asked a gentleman for change, and he gave it me—the gentleman kept the half crown till the morning, and then he told me it was bad—he is not here—on the same day, 6th Sept., the prisoner came again, between 8 and 9 o'clock; he asked for another glass of stout—it came to 1d.—he gave me half a crown—I am sure he is the same person—I did not say anything to him—I did not know the first was bad—I gave him change, and put that half crown in a cup in the till—I had no other half Crown there—I did not take any other that evening—no one served in the bar bat myself—when I went to bed I put the cup in my bed room—in the morning I had some suspicion, as I found the half crown was bad—there was only that half crown in the cup—I gave it to the officer—I did not get the first half crown, the man had made away with it.

Prisoner. Q. When I first came in your place, and gave you half a crown as you say, don't you remember I gave you halfpence? A. No, you gave me no halfpence at all—a gentleman gave change.

CHARLES FREDERICK SYRED (policeman, V 84). I produce this helf crown—I received it from the last witness on 7th Sept.

ANN HUTCHINSON . My brother in law keeps the Clapham Ale Stores, in Clapham-road. I was there on the evening of 6th Sept—the prisoner came, and I served him with some refreshment, which came to 5d—he gave me a half crown—I showed it to my brother in law, Mr. Houseton—he told the prisoner it was bad—the prisoner said he would give him a sovereign, or a 5l. note—he did not produce either—he was given into custody.

EDWARD HOUSETON . The last witness showed me a half crown on 6th Sept.—the prisoner was in my bar—I told him it was bad—he said, "I was not aware of it; I dined in Mincing-lane; I paid with a sovereign, and this was part of the change I received"—he bounced a good deal, and said he would give me a sovereign, or a 5l. note, and really, from his plausibility, I thought he was innocent—I bent the half crown up, and gave it to the policeman—when I bent it, he said, "Don't do that"—I called a constable, and gave him in charge.

MICHAEL BEST (policeman, V 322). On 6th Sept the prisoner was given into my charge—I found on him this bad half crown, three good sixpences and 2d.

WILLIAM WEBSTER I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint These half crowns are both bad.

Prisoner. I was very much in liquor at the time I paid the money.

MICHAEL BEST re-examined. He pretended to be intoxicated, but he was not so much as he pretended.

EDWABD HOUSETON Re-examined. He was not the least in liquor till he was given in charge, and then his manner changed directly.

GUILTY .** Aged 25.— Confined Eighteen Months .

Before Mr. Justice Crowder.

Reference Number: t18550917-897


MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.

JOHN WILES (policeman, P 187). On 20th June I was stationed at Penge—about half past 1 o'clock, in the middle of that day, I was called out of my bed to put an end to a fight—I went to the Crooked Billet, and in front of that house outside I found a fight going on—there were a great number of men outside, I suppose 150, shouting, and making a noise—the prisoners were all there—I went quietly to the men, and told them to give over fighting—they said they would not be interfered with by the police—Collins said he would kill all the police that came to interfere—Collins struck violently at me three times—I put my arm up to save my head—the other men pushed me back—I do not remember that Ratcliff was there at the beginning, he was there soon afterwards—Collins struck at me three times, and the other prisoners were pushing me about, with a great many others—I went and stood at a short distance from them, and in a short time Cannon, another constable, came up—I sent for more assistance, and I told Cannon what had taken place, and we considered it was best not to interfere—the men were getting up a pretended fight—I really did not notice who it was that pretended to fight, they were striking each other—they left off of their own accord soon after Cannon came, and a great number of them went into the Crooked Billet—I and Cannon remained outside, at the top of a court, leading to my house, which is close by the Crooked Billet—I then saw Pooley; she spoke to the men, and pointed out Cannon, and said, "That is the b——r that gave me a month, serve him out for it"—there were a great many persons outside the public house at that time—Pooler having said that went into the public house—she came out again is about five minutes, and Bavington, Collins, Sheppard, Dixon, and Kemmish, came out with her—Cannon and I were still standing in the same place, at the top of the court, and four Persons came up to us—Bavington was one, but whether they were all the same men that came out of the public house, I do not know—they came down two abreast—Bavington pulled off part of his clothes, and said to the man by him, "You take that b—r, and I will take this"—Bavington struck Cannon directly, and the other man struck me—who the other man was, I do not know—I was then struck by a great many—there were but four at first—the other three struck me—Cannon 'and I stood on our own defence, and directly a great number came, as many as could get near us, but how many it is impossible for me to say—beside striking us with their fists, they threw stones at us—this struggle went on at the top of the court, for five or six minutes—soon after this Cannon was separated from me, and I was knocked down a few yards down the court—I was knocked down three times—I succeeded in getting up twice—the third time I could not get up for some time, and I was knocked about and kicked, and jumped upon—I was near my own door when I was knocked down the third time by Collins—Kemmish was in the court, and while I was on the ground with the truncheon in my hand, he stood on my hand and wrenched it out of my hand, and Sheppard kicked me on my left hip—I turned to prevent their kicking me, and they got on my back—I hallooed "Murder!" as loudly as I could, till I could halloo no longer—I then heard one of the men say, "Come away, leave him, he will do now"—I do not think I laid long in that court—Cannon came down the court the third time, as I was holding by the fence—Cannon and I got into my house, we fastened the door—some persons came down the court a

very short time afterwards—I saw Bavington, Collins, Sheppard, Dixon, and Kemmish, outside my house—they looked in at the window, and then commenced throwing stones at us, and broke the window all to pieces—all the prisoners that I have mentioned took an active part in it—Cannon and I tried to keep the door shut, which we could not do, and Cannon said, "We had better leave, we shall be murdered"; the front door was burst in, and we went to the back—I saw Bavington, Collins, Sheppard, Dixon, and Kemmish, in the house—at the time they came in, Collins had this large piece of wood (looking at it) in his hand, which he had split off the bottom of the door—he held it in both his hands, and struck Cannon on the head with the edge of it—Cannon had a butcher's chopper in his band—Collins struck at Cannon's head with this board—Cannon put up his arm, and got the blow on his arm—I was attacked also in the room—I was in one corner and Cannon was in another—the furniture in the room was broken to pieces—these are the legs of my table (produced)—I saw these legs in the hands of the persons in the room—I cannot Bay positively who had them, I was too much excited—there were some legs of chairs in some of their hands—1 was knocked down—one of them pulled me by the arm out of the corner I was in, and another knocked me down—when I got up I fought my way to the door—the violence had gone on in the house from five to ten minutes before I got out of the house—I did not see Cannon there at the time I fought my way out—I believe he was there—when I got to the door a man had a knife in his hand, and he made a stab at me as I went past—who it was I cannot say.

Q. You have mentioned Bavington, Collins, Sheppard, Dixon, and Kemmish as being in the room, and that Collins struck Cannon on the head; what did the other men do? A. They were fighting with Cannon and me, and there were a great many others—the room was quite full—I do not remember Dixon doing anything particular inside the room, but outside he was trying to break the window in with his hand—Cannon put up the chopper, and Dixon put up his foot, and smashed the window sash right in—I saw Ratcliff in the court leading to my house—that was the first time to my recollection of my seeing him—he was in the court following me—I do not know whether he took any part in the attack—I do not remember seeing Hurry take any part, but he came and spoke to me previous to Cannon coming up—I do not remember seeing him afterwards—I understood Hurry to say that he had got a father in the police, but nevertheless he would not suffer one of his mates to be taken away.

Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. He spoke that quite temperately, did not he? A. He spoke it—the prisoners are all navigators, and were to go to the. Crimea the next day—I do not remember seeing one man drunk—probably they might have been excited by liquor, but they did not stagger about as if they were drunk—they had been about that neighbourhood several days, and very much alarmed the neighbourhood—there were 200 or 300 of them—I believe they did no work—I do not know whether all the others have embarked—I cannot say how many were about in this affray—there was a great confusion—I am certain that all these prisoners were there—I am certain I am not mistaken as to the part they took.

THOMAS CANNON (policeman, P 59). On 20th June, I was called by the last witness at Penge, at half past 1 o'clock—I should say I found 200 or 300 persons assembled—they were waiting to go to the Crimea—they were paid for being there, but they did nothing—all that lot have gone

except these prisoners—I saw several sham fights got up—I did not at all interfere—I saw Pooley come out of the grocer's shop with some bacon in her hand—she said, "That is the b——that gave me a calendar month serve him out, but spare the rest"—there were none of the police there but Wiles and me—she went into the public house, and came out again, and Bavington, Collins, Dixon, and Sheppard, came out of the public house—they came up to me and Wiles, took off their jackets, and Bavington said, "We are going to fight these b——policemen; I will take this, and you take the other"—Bavington then struck me with his fist in the left eye—I saw Wiles struck, but I could not say who struck him—I should say there were nearly fifty round us—I drew my truncheon and struck Bavington, and Wiles struck the other one—we kept them away as well as we could for some little time—Bavington closed on me, and shocked me up against the butcher's shop—some one called out, "Take the b—n truncheon away, and use it"—I passed my truncheon over the frost, and gave it to Mr. Wren, the butcher, who was in his shop—I then armed myself with a butcher's chopper that I saw lying in the shop—I took it to defend myself—Bavington kicked me on the leg—Mr. Wren assisted me with the long arm—I got in the shop, and Mr. Wren and I kept them oat as well as we could for Home little time, but the stones came so thick that I was obliged to retreat out at the back door—I should say there were forty or fifty in front of the shop engaged in throwing stones—all the male prisoners were there—Hurry was there while the stones were throwing but he was not throwing stones—Ratcliff was there at the commencement when Bavington commenced striking me, and Ratcliff said, "Give it the b——"—I am sure of that as to Ratcliff—I saw Ratcliff and Hurry in front of the butcher's shop—I did not see them throwing stones, but there was so many there, I could not say—I noticed Hurry jumping about and shouting, but I did not see him throwing stones—the stones were thrown so fast that I retreated out at the back door—Wiles was then gone down the court—he was not in the shop—when I got out I met Sheppard standing in the court—he said, "Here comes one b"——and he tried to prevent my going up the court—I had the chopper in one hand, and my truncheon in the other—I struck him with the truncheon, and I went on towards Wiles, whom I saw standing at his own door—I and Wiles went into hi house, and we locked and bolted the door—his house is at the back of the butcher's shop—no great distance down the court—when we got into Wiles's house, there were a number of them throwing stones through Wiles's window—I noticed amongst them Sheppard and Kennish—there were several others—I could not particularly identify any other—they were all about there—they were in the court—the court was full of people—Bavington and Collins were there—I could not positively speak to any other—after they broke the window in with the stones, they forced the door in, and we tried to escape out of the back door—I distinctly saw Collins come in with this piece of board in his hand, which had formed the bottom part of Wiles's door—Collins took up this with both hands and struck at my head—I put up my arm, and the blow broke my arm—he struck me on the head afterwards—I had seven blows on my head—one was a severe blow, I believe it was done with this board—as my arm was broken I could not use the chopper—I struck Collins with the truncheon, and retreated to a corner of the room—I had seven blows on my head—not all with this board, some with these table legs (produced)—when I was in the corner, Dixon called me out into the middle of the room, and said, "Come out, face

me like a man"—I could not say how many persons were in the room—the room was full—immediately one of them turned the table bottom upwards (it was a Pembroke table), and broke the four legs off—Bavington, Sheppard, and Dixon were amongst those who broke the table, and armed them selves with the legs—as I stood in the corner, they made strokes at my head with this board, and the legs of the table—they broke my. hat right in, and hit my head—I was then leaning against a corner in the angle of the room, supporting myself that way—I was not able to defend myself—I called out "Murder!" as well as I could, and they left me, and one of them said as they left me (I believe it was Dixon), "The b—r is dead enough now"—I was in a fainting state, leaning in the corner of the room, and when they got out, I tried to get up—I fell down—the neighbours came and got me up, washed my face, and gave me some brandy—I heard these people coming back again, and I crawled up stairs as well as I could—my head was cut all to pieces—my left arm was broken, and bruised from the shoulders to the wrist, and my left leg was bruised very much with the kicks—I saw Wiles in the room some five minutes after these persona broke in—there were so many there I could not see what position he was in—I saw some of the men strike him—the sergeant at last came, and I went away with him—I assisted in apprehending the prisoners—these men have been there about six weeks—I knew them by being about there—they had been drinking, and were about half-drunk, but every man was capable of knowing what he was about—I was a witness against Pooley; she had a month for picking pockets, on my evidence.


CILLINS—Aged 28.

Four Years'


DIXON—Aged 37.

Confined Two Years .

KEMMISH—Aged 24.— Confined Eighteen Months .

POOLEY—Aged 27.— Confined Nine Months .

RATCLIFF—Aged 20.— Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his youth .— Confined Twelve MonthS .


Reference Number: t18550917-898

898. HUMPHREY DELORA and LEWIS GOVER , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Samuel Joseph Ballard, and stealing 3 ladles, 1 cream jug, and other articles, value 9l., his property.,

MR. GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.

SAMUEL JOSEPH BALLARD . I live at No. 1, Terrace, Old Kent-road. I left my home on 7th June; I left the whole of the doors looked inside and outside—I was at Ramsgate, and on 25th July I received a note from the· police; I came to town on the 26th or 27th—I found the house in posses sion of the police—I found a family portrait had been cut up, and a carving knife with which the picture had been cut up was left sticking in the wall—I missed some spoons and forks, and amongst other things a blue cloak with a fur collar.

Cross-examined by MR. FRANCIS. Q. Did you lock the doors yourself on 7th June? A. Yes, I left no person in charge of the house—I was unwell at the time, in consequence of an accident—I did not know how long I might be away—I kept a servant, but I had sent her away two or three days before—I was staying with some friends—the house was unoccupied three

or four days before 7th June—I returned to it on 7th June—I went all over the house, and locked it all safe—the articles were safe.

COURT. Q. Did you see them on 7th June? A. I did a day or two before, and I closed the door of the room in which they were all safe.

STEPHEN EVEBSFIELD . I am a horsekeeper to the South Eastern Bail-way; I lire near the Kent-road. On the morning of 25th July, I saw the prisoner Delora coming out of Mr. Ballard's front gate, a few minutes before 1 o'clock—that was at No. 1, Terrace, Old Kent-road—there was no one with him—I did not see him with anything—he passed me, and I lost sight of him—I did not see him at any other time that morning—after he came out I saw Gover and another person on the other side of the street—the other person left Gover, and went into the house—that was about five minutes after I saw Delora come out—I saw Gover afterwards—he was going from the house down the Kent-road, and he returned—I was opposite him the width of the Old Kent-road—I have no doubt Gover is the man—Delon came close to me as I was passing the front gate—I have no doubt he is the man.

Cross-examined. Q. How long after Delora came out did You see these other persons? A. About five minutes—I was standing still, to give a man a light with a pipe—I saw Gover go into the front gate—I did not see him go into the house—I had never seen Gover before that morning—it was 20 minutes before 4 o'clock—I had seen the other person before.

MR. GIFFABD. Q. Was it light or dark? A. It was not to say clear daylight—I saw the other person go into the gate—I cannot undertake to say whether he went into the house.

COURT. Q. Had you ever seen Gover or Delora before? A. I do not recollect that I had, but I had seen the other person—his name I believe is Duke.

JOHN THOMAS . I live at No. 31, King-street, Kent-road; I am a horse-keeper keeper in the South Western Rail way. On the morning of 25th July I was walking past the house, No. 1, Terrace, Old Kent-road—I looked round, and saw a person beckon to some one to come out of the house—I did not stop, but directly I saw two persons come out at the door at the side of the house, and the three walked together for a short distance, and then one who had a cloak on advanced a little way ahead, and they kept that distance till they got to the end of Kent-street—the prisoners are the two persons that came out of the house—Gover was the one with the cloak.

Cross-examined. Q. How near were you to them? A. Opposite—the road is about as wide as this Court is long—I had never seen them before—it was daylight, but it had been raining, which made it rather dark—they walked on one side, and I on the other—they walked on to Kent-street, and went on—I went down there—I am sure it was a loose cloak, with a fur collar—I noticed it because I thought there was something amiss—I did not see the door before they came out—the door is at the side of the house—I was opposite the passage which leads to the door—I saw Delora come out first, and the other afterwards—they came out smoking; that made me notice it—the passage is about the length of this Court—I might be double the length of this Court when I saw them.

Q. Do you mean that you saw the door? A. I saw the doorway—I cannot say whether the door was shut or open—I saw the doorstep—I will swear I saw them come out, and step on that door step—they joined the other man at a short distance—those houses have a little green lawn in

front—the houses have about six windows in front—I do not know anybody that lives in these houses—I should think they are not such houses as the prisoner might have—I cannot say whether persons might get up that passage, and lie about at night—there is room for it—I cannot say whether No. 2 is inhabited.

JURY. Q. Where was the man standing who beckoned? A. Close to the gate—he beckoned for them to come out—I heard a sudden stop—that was the man who beckoned—I saw him stop at the side of the door—the door is up steps, but you go some distance before you get to the door—you go from the pavement to the fore court, and then on to the door—I am quite sure I had a good opportunity of seeing the men's faces.

Delora. Q. How far was it we walked? A. To the end of Kent-street, about three-quarters of a mile—I had suspicion that you had broken into the house, when I saw you come out—I met two policemen, but my suspicions were not strong enough at the time to give you into custody—I would not do such a thing without I was sure you had committed a robbery.

JURY. Q. When did you next see the prisoners? A. When they were taken into custody—I was taken to them, and asked if they were the persons—there were no other prisoners there.

PHILIP BROWN (policeman, M 152). On 17th Aug. I apprehended Delora—I told him the charge—he said he did not know anything respecting it.

HENRY HUNT (police sergeant, M 34). I apprehended Gover last Friday morning—I told him the charge—he said he knew nothing about it, and that I knew he did not.

COURT to SAMUEL JOSEPH BALLAKD. Q. You found your house in possession of the police? A. Yes, there were three policemen there—cooper per was one—he is not here—I lost a great number of things, a cloak, twelve tea spoons, four table spoons, twelve dessert forks, four toddy ladles, a pair of pistols, which were loaded at the time, and other things—I have never seen them since—I cannot tell how long my house had been in possession of the police.

The prisoner Gover called,

LOUISA POULTON . I am a dressmaker. I know Gover—on 25th July he was at my house, No. 5, Marigold-street, near Bermondsey New Church—he was there all night on the 25th and the morning of the 26th—my father was ill—he had been there several days before, to sit up with my father—on the 24th he was in my house, and the next door neighbours can prove the same—I made a bed for him in the kitchen, and used to call him occasionally when I wanted him—I called him twice that night—the first time was between 11 and 12 o'clock—the last time was daylight—when I called him he came.

Cross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. On the morning of the 26th, what time did he leave? A. He went away about 12 o'clock, and was back by tea time—he was nursing my father—he is my brother—it was my fathers wish to have him—I am a widow, and have four children—he was there several days and nights—a week, I may say.

JURY. Q. Did he continue to come to your house? A. Yes, every night for several weeks, both before and after the 25th.



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