CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
MOON, MAYOR. FOURTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, January 29th, 1855.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. WIRE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
JEREMIAH O'KEEFE . I am a cooper by trade, and live in Shorter's rents, Whitechapel. On the night of the last day of the year, I was going up Keate's court, Whitechapel, about half-past 8 o'clock; it is near Spitalfields-church, about five minutes' walk from where I live—I had met a young woman from Limerick, who I have known for the last five years, and I went with her to her place—she lived in that court—I went through the court, and went up stairs with her—I then left her—she stopped up stairs, and I went down and stood at the door waiting for her to come down—it was her own place, but I expect it was a bad place—I went three steps from the door, and saw these three gentlemen (the three prisoners) in the passage of a house opposite—I knew them before by sight; Rogers for the last two years, Bedborough for ten or eleven months, and Merritt for about three years—there is one gas lamp in the court—I was as sober as I am now—the prisoners sprang from the opposite door as I came from the doorway—Rogers caught me by the neck on one side, and Merritt caught me by the neck on the other side—I did very well with those two chaps, but Bedborough sprang on the back of my neck, put his two knees in my back, and pulled me down on the flat of my back in the court, and pulled the buttons right off my waistcoat—I called out "Murder!" and "Robbery!"—they took my watch from me before they knocked me down; when the third fellow sprang on my back—it was Rogers that took my watch—it
was a silver one, engine turned, capped and jewelled; it had a silver chain to it, and a gold key—I am sure I had my watch safe when I came down stairs—I had hold of it in my hand as I came down stairs—the chain was in my hand, and the watch in my pocket—I had hold of it to keep it clear of these men—I cannot say whether the chain was broken; it was not a guard chain, only a chain about eight inches long—it was not fastened; it went in between my buttons—the watch, chain, and key were attached together—when I called out "Murder!" they ran away as fast as they could through the court—I went straight to Leman-street station—the young woman did not come down stairs before I was knocked down—I saw the prisoners, Rogers and Merritt, in custody at half-past 1 o'clock that same morning—I am certain they are two of the men—I saw Bedborough, I think it was at half-past 5 o'clock in the morning, with the officer—he was in bed—I am certain he is the other man.
Rogers. He states that it was me who seized him by the neck, and likewise that I stole his watch out of his pocket; I could not do two things at once. Witness. It was Rogers who first seized me, and he is the one that took my watch.
Merritt. Q. When you went up stairs with the prostitute, did not the man she lived with follow her up stairs? A. No; no person at all.
GEORGE COVILL (policeman, H 76). I received information from the prosecutor on 31st December, about five minutes before 10 o'clock at night, at the station, in consequence of which I apprehended the prisoners—I first took Rogers about a quarter past 12 o'clock; he was walking down Keate-street alone, within about 100 yards of the court where this happened—I do not know where he lives—he asked me what I took him for; I said on suspicion of stealing a watch—he" said he knew nothing about it—I took Merritt about a quarter of an hour afterwards—I went to the house where he lived with his mother, and when I came out of the house I met him—he asked what it was for; I said on suspicion of stealing a watch—he said, "It was not me"—the prosecutor had given me a description of the men—I took Bedborough about an hour and a half afterwards; he was at home in bed, at No. 1, Keate-street—I told him what it was for; he said he knew nothing about it; he was not there—I remember the prosecutor coming to the station when Rogers and Merritt were there; that was about a quarter past 1 o'clock—they were shown to him—there were several other parties at the station—I told him to go in and see if he could identify any of those as the men who had robbed him of his watch, and he first picked out Rogers and then Merritt—he picked them out from others—there were three others—they were three civilians—I do not know whether they were prisoners; there were charges against them at the time—the prisoners were not standing by themselves; they were all standing together, with their faces towards the door—I told the prosecutor to go in and see if any of those were the men that had robbed him of his watch—he went in, and immediately he got inside the door he said, "That is the one that seized me first," pointing to Rogers, and "That is the one that seized me second," pointing to Merritt—Rogers said he must be a bad one to want to lag them for that, and Merritt said he must be a bad man to lock them up for it—the prosecutor went with me to Bedborough—I told Bedborough to dress himself—he said, "What for?"—I said on suspicion of a watch—he said, "What, for that souper up the court?"—I understood souper to mean a watch; it is a slang phrase for a watch—I then called the prosecutor up stairs to see if he was the man, and directly he entered the
door he said, "That is the man that put his knees in my back, and seized me by the throat behind"—I searched the prisoners, but found nothing on them—I have known them about twelve months.
(At this period of the case, Joseph Mate, one of the Jury, was taken ill; Mr. F. J. Dent, a surgeon, having attended the gentleman, deposed upon oath that he was suffering from premonitory symptoms of delirium tremens, and was unable to resume his duty. The Jury were then discharged from giving any verdict. Joseph Surr was substituted as a Juror instead of Mr. Mate, the whole Jury were re-sworn, and the prisoners again given in charge. The evidence already given was then read over to the witnesses, who stated that it was correct. Mr. Payne held the depositions for the Court, and Mr. Clarkson appeared for the prisoners upon the second occasion.)
GEORGE COVILL continued. I have seen the three prisoners together upon several occasions—Merritt lives in Keate-court—Bedborough lives in the opposite corner; his father keeps a chandler's shop at the corner of Keate-court, where Bedborough had been living up to within about a month—I did not find him at his father's, but at the opposite corner of Keate-court—it is a lodging house—I did not know where Rogers lived.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you been in the police? A. A little better than four years—it is nearly twelve months ago that I first learnt that souper meant watch—I do not myself speak of a watch as a souper—I learnt it on the very beat that I am now upon, where I took these parties from—the last time I had seen the prisoners together was on the Saturday evening previous to the Sunday when the robbery was committed—I have been on that beat nearly two months—I have been on the beat before, but only two months this time—I first saw the prosecutor at the station in Leman-street—he was then perfectly sober—I was in court when he was examined—I did not hear him state that he was sober—I have not found the watch—the prosecutor is a cooper, I believe—I knew him before, I dare say for nearly two years—he is not an acquaintance of mine, no more than seeing him in his shop on passing—he lived in Glasshouse-street—I was never in his shop—I did not know him at first, when he came to the station, not till he gave his address.
MR. PAYNE. Q. How many times altogether have you seen the prisoners together? A. I have seen them nearly every night until I took them into custody, with the exception of Bedborough—I have not seen him so often as I have the other two—I have seen those two together almost every night, at a public house called the White Swan, at the corner of Keate-court, passing in and out—I have seen Bedborough with the other two upon several occasions up to the last month—I saw them all together, at the same public house, on the Thursday night previous to the robbery; and on the Saturday, the night before the robbery, I saw Rogers and Merritt together—I was told by a brother officer that souper meant watch—I heard some parties talking about soupers, and I asked my brother constable what it was, and he said it was a cant word for a watch.
JEREMIAH O'KEEFE Cross-examined. The young woman is not here with whom I went up stairs—I believe I was up stairs with her about ten minutes—she is a young woman of loose character—my watch was in my waistcoat pocket—I had known the young woman before, for five years—I was forty-eight years of age last Nov., I was born in 1805—I did not go to the house of the mother of either of the prisoners—I did not offer to anybody that if they would give me 3l. I would not appear—1 said no such thing—if I had got 3l. I should still have appeared, for the ill usage I got
—I did not say I would—my wife was satisfied that I would, but I would not—I know the mother of one of the prisoners, I do not know which—she came to my place—three women came to my place last night, I did not go to their place—I was not at home when they came—I was called from the Sidney Smith public house to my place to make an agreement with them—it was one of their friends who came for me—I know that, because they have been to my house several times—I did not say if I got 3l. I would not appear—it took place, but I did not mention it—I said nothing at all, but my wife was speaking,—I sat in a chair—my wife told one of the women, that if she got 3l. I should not appear—that was before I came in—she repeated it when I came in—I said nothing at all to it—the woman said she had made two raffles, and had only got 2l. 6s.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Tell us what happened when you got home? A. The three women were there—it was a tall young woman that spoke first; I understand she lives with one of the prisoners; the other women were the mothers of Rogers and Merritt—they said if they gave me 2l. 10s., and I gave them a signature, would I be satisfied, and not come against them—I said that would not give me any satisfaction at all for the usage I got—I gave nine guineas for my watch and chain—I said the 2l. 6s. would not satisfy me for the usage, if I had got 10l. it would not have satisfied me—I did not at any time consent to take any money, and not to appear against them—my wife said, "That would suit me"—I did not offer to take the money—my wife did not state in my presence that I would take the money, and stay away—she said the least recompense that could be made would be to give her 3l. and then I would not come, but I did not say that I would take it and stay away—I said nothing at all—no money was paid, not a farthing.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did not you this morning outside this Court offer to take the 2l. 6s., which the woman said was all she had? A. No; one of the women met me this morning when I left home at 9 o'clock, and said, "Mr. Keefe, we have done the best we could, and we could not make up but 2l. 6s."—I hook my head and walked away, I did not offer to take the 2l. 6s.
BEDBOROUGH— GUILTY . Aged 20.
MERRITT— GUILTY . Aged 20.
Confined Twelve Months.
ROGERS— GUILTY . Aged 23.
(Rogers was farther charged with having been before convicted.)
THOMAS TOWNSEND (policeman, H) 54. I produce a certificate—(this certified the conviction of Richard Bardwell, at the Middlesex Sessions, in May, 1854, of larceny, and that he was sentenced to four months imprisonment.)
ROGERS—GUILTY. Four Years' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY , and received a good character. Aged 16.— Confined
234. DAVID JONES was indicted for feloniously forging and uttering an acquaintance, and receipt for money on 29th April; also, for a like offence on 25th May; also, for a like offence on 10th Jan.; and also, for a like offence on 18th Jan.; with intent to defraud: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 38.
(The prosecutor stated, that the prisoner, who was his coachman, had robbed him to the extent of 200l. or 300l. in three years, by means of fictitious bills and receipts for corn.) Four Years' Penal Servitude.
235. CHARLES EPPS , stealing on 19th Dec., 48 ozs. weight off silver, value 12l.; and within six months, 1 ewer, 2 pair of sugar tongs, 1 vinaigrette, 1 knife, and other articles, value 5l.; and within six months, 50 ozs. of silver, value 12l. 12s.; the goods of John Henry Benham, his master; also, stealing, on 20th Oct., 48 ozs. of silver, value 12l.; the goods of his said master: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25. The prosecutor stated, that his losses amounted to more than 600l.— Confined Eighteen Months.
236. JOSEPH RICHARDSON , feloniously forging and uttering a request for the delivery of 2 pieces of Coburg cloth; also, one other request for the delivery of goods; also, one other request for the delivery of goods; also, one other request for the delivery of goods, with intent to defraud: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
DAVID WILLIAM SMITH . I am foreman to Mr. John Thomas, upholsterer, of No. 73 and 74, Bishopsgate-street. The prisoner was in their employment; it was his duty to feed the machine which cleans the horse hair; other boys were employed to carry it away, the prisoner only had to feed it—he has been in the employment turned eleven years, and had 10s. a week, but did not lodge there—on the night of 15th Jan., I observed a ladder in the yard, leaning against the shed which is at the side of the premises where one of the machines runs—I asked the prisoner what business the ladder had there; he said that he had a tile to put on—I said, "Well, go up and do it"—he went up, and was out of my sight; when he came down I asked him what he had come down for; he said that he could not find the tile, and he would put a bit of board over the hole; he went up again, taking a bit of board with him—he had no light, it was about six o'clock in the evening, and was dusk—he remained up there a few minutes, and I heard something heavy drop from the roof into the ruins, which is where forty houses are being pulled down—the prisoner had taken up nothing but the board; he could not have had anything in his hand without my seeing him—I left him on the roof, and ran round to the ruins; I found nothing at first, but turned round and saw a little boy, who said, "Mr. Smith, there was a tall man ran out of that corner"—I went into the corner, which was about twenty yards off, and found two bags of hair weighing 42 lbs. with the bags; the value of the hair is 1s. per lb.—the little boy is not here; I know him, he lives in Newman's-place, Bishopsgate-street; they told me at the Mansion-house that he would not be required, or I would have brought him—I gave one of the bags to him, took the other myself, and we brought them back to the factory—the prisoner was then standing by the engine house door; he had had no opportunity of running away, as I always lock the factory door when I go in and out, and I did so at that time; everybody was gone off the premises but the prisoner and myself, and I had the key in my pocket—
I said, "Holland, this is your doing, throwing this hair over"; he said, "No, it is not, Mr. Smith"—I gave him into custody.
JOHN EDWARDS (City policeman, 651). On 15th Jan. I went to Smith's buildings to search the apartments where the prisoner lived with his father—I found there 11b. of hair—the prisoner was not there, he was in custody—as I was taking him to Newgate after the remand, he said that he would not deny the charge, he would not tell a lie about it; that he carried the hair from the warehouse on to the roof, and then threw it on to the ruins in Angel-alley—I asked him who was going to carry it away, what he was going to do with it; he said that his conscience would not let him carry it away.
Prisoner. I did not say so; he asked me whether I did throw it out, and I told him if I had thrown it out my conscience would not have let me take it away. Witness. I am sure I did not put the question to you first; I had not been speaking to you about the charge, except that you asked me what I thought you should get, and I said I did not know; you then said that you would not deny the charge.
Prisoners Defence. I hope you will deal with me as lightly as you can; I am the only one my mother is depending upon, and she has eight children; when I went on the roof there was no property there.
GUILTY . Aged 18.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Four Months.
NEW COURT.—Monday, January 29th, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. WIRE; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN MIDDLETON . I am foreman of the plumbers in the employ of Mr. John Jay, the contractor for the Houses of Parliament. He is erecting a large plot of buildings in Cannon-street—at a little before 8 o'clock in the morning of 17th Jan., I was in Bread-street—the foreman of the carpenters was with me—I had left the premises in Cannon-street about five minutes—that was about 100 yards from Cannon-street—I saw the prisoner pass with this lead pipe on his shoulder—he was going towards Thames-street—I followed him, and asked him where he was going to take the pipe—he said to the Brown Bear, in Southwark Bridge-road—I told him I thought I knew the pipe, and he had better take it back again to where he got it—he walked back to Cannon-street, and put the pipe down not five yards from where I had seen it five minutes before—I had not in any way indicated to him where it came from—there were some workmen there—I left the prisoner in charge of the foreman of the plasterers, while I got a policeman—I know this pipe—I assisted in making twenty-five lengths of it a few days before—it is worth about 1l. 5s.
Prisoner. I never knew where it came from; I followed you to the place. Witness. No; you walked back to the place—I was about a yard and a half behind you.
WILLIAM MURRELL (City policeman, 447). I was called, and took the prisoner—he gave his name Richard Pelham, No. 21, Isabella-street, Borough—I went, and found he lodged there—the Golden Last is about 100 yards from the premises in Cannon-street.
(The prisoners statement before the Magistrate was here read as follow: "This pipe was given to me at the end of the street facing the Golden Last, in Cannon-street; a man asked me to take it over the water; I was not near Mr. Jay's premises; when the foreman stopped me, he said, 'I think I know that pipe; I think I made it;' and he said I had better take it back; I went with him, and put it down; I was never near the premises before; I did not steal it."
GUILTY . Aged 47.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
SOPHIA WARREN . I am cook to Mr. Richard Comyn, No. 5, Marl-borough-place, St. John's-wood, in the parish of St. Marylebone. On Monday night, 18th Dec., I fastened up the house at 11 o'clock—the housemaid, and master and mistress, were in the house—I was not the last up—the nurse was up last—she went to bed a little after 12 o'clock—I fastened the lower door, which leads into the garden—I came down next morning, about half-past 7 o'clock, and found that door open, which I had fastened the night before at 11 o'clock—I went in the pantry, and missed all the plate—I called my master, and he came down immediately—I missed a cloak and pair of boots of mine, which had been safe the night before—I afterwards missed an umbrella, which had been left in the pantry—some jars, which had been inside the scullery window, had been removed into the garden—an iron bar outside the scullery window had been broken—my master picked up these ropes and sticks, which did not belong to the house.
ELIZABETH HOPGOOD . I am housemaid to Mr. Comyn. On Monday night, 18th Dec., I saw the plate safe, about 11 o'clock, in the basket in the pantry—I went to bed about a quarter past 12 o'clock—I got up about 3 o'clock, and went down to the dining room to fetch some fruit—I heard a noise like a scrambling—I thought it was the cat, and spoke to her—I did not come down in the morning till after the cook—I have seen the articles and the umbrella—this is it.
WILLIAM LAMBURN (police sergeant, S 11). On the night of Tuesday, 19th Dec., I went, in consequence of information, to No. 7, Snow's-rents, Westminster, about 20 minutes before 12 o'clock, at night; I went into the front room on the first floor—I knocked at the door; John Davis let me in—Ann Davis was in bed—I told them I took them in charge for breaking into Mr. Comyn's house, in St. John's-wood—John Davis said he had not been to St. John's-wood—I searched the room, and found this umbrella hanging on a nail—I took it down, and said to John Davis, "This is a nice umbrella; is it yours?"—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he was
certain—he said, "Yes"—I found a box under the bed, and in it I found these ten large forks, nine small forks, nine table spoons, eight dessert spoons, some ladles, a pair of sugar tongs, and other things, which are all here—I found a list in John Davis's trowsers pocket, which enumerates the different articles of plate which I found in the box—the list was written in pencil—I took the prisoners to the station—the woman did not say anything to me.
John Davis. Q. How can you swear to this plate? A. I can swear to these sugar tongs and one ladle—they have been rubbed at the edges; and these other articles correspond with the property that was lost that night—I can swear to the umbrella by the band that is round it—I have not the slightest doubt about it.
JOHN HOLDER (policeman, S 350). I went with the sergeant to the house, and found these things, as he has stated—I took Ann Davis to the station; I said nothing to her, but when we got into the street she said she had only known the man three months, and she wished she had never known him, for she expected it would come to this.
John Davis's Defence. The things were brought there by a man for me to take care of them for a few days; I have never seen him since; I took down the things on a bit of paper.
Ann Davis's Defence. I know nothing about the things.
JOHN DAVIS— GUILTY . Aged 26.
ANN DAVIS— GUILTY Aged 24. of Receiving.
(John Davis was further charged with having been before convicted.)
>WILLIAM DUNSFORD (policeman. D 257). I produce a certificate of John Davis's conviction—I was present, and he was in my custody—(read: "Guildhall, Westminster, Dec, 1853, Thomas Hodges, convicted of stealing a pair of shears, and other articles; confined two months>")—The prisoner John is the person.
JOHN DAVIS— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
ANN DAVIS— Confined One Month.'
ABRAHAM BECK . I live at Northalt, and am a farmer. The prisoner was in my employ for about four months—I searched for a saw—I got a warrant to search the prisoner's house, and went with a policeman to search—I did not see him find this saw, but he brought it to me, and I know it to be mine and my brother's—I had missed it about three months—I have repeatedly spoken to the prisoner about it.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Had not the prisoner lived in your family several years? A. Yes; he was a labourer, off and on, to my father—I had about this time bought the lease of some cottages, which were very much out of repair—the prisoner had not borrowed this saw of me—I do not know whether he had borrowed it of my brother—he has been in the habit of using tools occasionally—I may have tools belonging to the prisoner—I do not know that I have tools belonging to him of more
value than this saw—I know that his cottage wanted repair, but I do not know that he did anything to it—this saw is in just the same state as it was when I lost it—the prisoner's wages were 12s. a week—I had spoken about this saw in the presence of the prisoner and other men—I gave the prisoner a character two years ago—he was at that time working on my premises.
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner's wife went up with you, and did not she take the saw from under the bed? A. I think she did—she did not make any observation.
JURY to WILLIAM BECK. Q. Did you lend this saw to the prisoner? A. I do not know whether I did or not; it is so long ago.
MR. COOPER called
NOT GUILTY .
(The JURY stated that he left the bar without the slightest stain on his character.)
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, January 30th, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. WIRE; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM RATHBONE . I am the proprietor of Trigg's Wharf, Upper Thames-street, and have also a stand at each Corn Exchange; lam a corn merchant and wharfinger. Liddiard and Mark Ing were in my employment up to their apprehension, which was on a Saturday, the third week in Nov., I think—I know Jesse Ing; he is, I believe, a brother of Mark Ing, and is a corn dealer, he has been so rather less than two years—a man named Hayward was in my employ, and was apprehended on the same day as Mark Ing and Liddiard; he was afterwards examined as a witness against the others—Hayward was the first taken into custody; that was in consequence of something which Mr. Wall, one of my clerks, told me—Hayward made a statement to me, in consequence of which I ordered Mark Ing and Liddiard, who were on the premises, to be taken—when Liddiard was brought down, I told him I was informed that he had been robbing me—he said, "I have not; I have merely sold a few sweepings" (I never allow sweepings of flour to be sold)—I said, "It is useless for you to deny it, Hayward is in the next room) and has confessed to the system of robbery that has been
going on"—he then said, "I am sorry, it is true"—(I had made him no promise, nor had I told him that it would be better for him to confess)—he said, "I am sorry, it is true; I was instigated to do it by Mark Ing, who told me that it had been going on before, and had not been found out, and would not be found out now"—I then gave him into custody, and sent for Mark Ing—I told him I found that he had been robbing me, that he was the worst of the lot, and that I should prosecute him—he said, two or three times over, "I know nothing at all about it"—I gave him into custody—. my practice with reference to the delivery of goods is to send from Mark-lane one of these printed orders (produced), addressed to the superintendent of the wharf, Mr. Cook—my servants have no authority, in the first instance, to deliver goods upon a delivery order, but if an order is lodged for a large parcel, the person in whose favour the order is made may afterwards draw any portion which is still undelivered, upon his own order alone—that order would be a warrant to my servant to deliver the rest, according to the wish of the purchaser; but each time when they fetched it, the buyer's servant, or carman, would sign one of these notes, and take away the duplicate—the receipt notes are kept in a book; my servants would fill in the name of the house, and the carman would sign the name underneath, and copy the duplicate—it was Liddiard's duty to fill up the ticket, and it would then be given to the buyer's servant, showing what goods are taken and what left—the counterfoil is not signed, the name is merely filled in, and it is retained in the book—the ticket merely shows the quantity delivered; it is Mr. Cook's duty to post it through the stock book from the counterfoil into the ledger every night, or the next morning, and to endorse the buyer's order with the quantity which appears in the book—the purchaser's order remains on a file in the counting house until the delivery is completed, and then it is placed on another file with the completed orders—though the order is addressed to the superintendent, Liddiard would have authority to deliver to that order—he knew that perfectly well; he was the working foreman—Mark Ing was also perfectly aware of that practice—he had been six years in my employment—he was recommended to me by his brother, the prisoner Jesse, who, at that time, was a weekly servant to me, a carman, and he had been in the habit of coming to my wharf, as carman, for the last fifteen years—Jesse Ing was never a customer of mine—I did not sell two barrels of flour to him about 11th Aug., nor did I authorise anybody else to do so, or give any delivery order to anybody for the delivery of two barrels of flour to Jesse Ing, or authorise anybody to do so—the right time for my men to come to the warehouse is 6 o'clock, but I think they come from half-past 6 to a quarter to 7 o'clock—the watchman leaves at 7 o'clock—the clerks come at half past 9 or 10 o'clock—I know Liddiard's writing—I have searched the file of delivery orders with reference to goods supplied to Jesse Ing, and find none—this letter (produced) came by post on a Monday evening, either the last day of the old year or the first of the new—it is in Liddiard's writing—I had another party, named Whitwell, in my employ in Aug., who was authorised to give delivery orders, as well as the two clerks and myself—it was the prisoner's duty, on the receipt of a delivery order, to give the quantity mentioned in the order, or a smaller quantity—the book is not here (it was ordered to be sent for).—(Letter read—"Newgate, Saturday. Dear Sir,—It is with sorrow that I am addressing you now. I should have spoken to you on Tuesday last, but my spirits would not allow me to do so. I implore of you this once to recommend me to the Court for mercy, if it
possibly lies in your power. I am very sorry to say I am in such a place as I am. For mercy your petitioner does most earnestly pray. Henry Liddiard.")—the two barrels of flour were worth between 43s. and 48s. perhaps not so much at that time, the price varies.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How long has Liddiard been in your employ? A. About thirteen or fourteen months; he was out of employ at the time I took him—I have heard that he was a soldier in the dragoons twelve years; he showed me his discharge—he was discharged with a good character; two good conduct badges, and pay—sweepings would not be put into barrels with an honest intention—Liddiard's first remark when I said, "I am informed that you have been robbing me," was, "I have merely sold a few sweepings"—I told him that Hayward was in the next room, and had confessed—Hayward would be the party who would deliver—the comparison of the delivery order with the quantity remaining, was made by Mr. Cook or Mr. Wall, not by the men; they have nothing to do with that, but Liddiard would see whether there was anything due to answer the order of the customer, if Mr. Cook or Wall were not there—it is the duty of Cook or Wall, when a man comes with a cart, to give instructions to Liddiard—the carman comes to the counting house first, and presents the order to the clerk, who gives directions—it was Liddiard's duty always to be there.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. It was Liddiard's particular duty to receive the orders? A. Yes; he was my working foreman; Hayward and Mark Ing were under him—Whitwell is not here, he had nothing to do with the wharf; he used to write orders.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You have known Jesse Ing about twenty years? A. Perhaps I had better say fifteen or sixteen; he has been carrying on business as a corn dealer for rather less than two years—my premises are situated on the river, and in the street as well—Mr. Smith is a tenant of mine for a portion of the same premises, and carries on the business of a corn merchant likewise—his place for lading is in Upper Thames-street, and mine is down the wharf—a pair of folding doors separate my premises from his—my men land the corn into my premises from his, but our lading places are different—my buyers load down Trigg Wharf, and Mr. Smith's in Upper Thames-street—supposing a cart had loaded at Mr. Smith's, in Thames-street, it would not pass through my lading place at all; but to get from the water to Smith's premises they must pass over my premises—I believe that Jesse Ing has been in the habit of dealing with Mr. Smith for a considerable time—I knew Mr. Tann, a corn dealer, who is recently dead; Jesse Ing was in his employ, and it was while he was in his employ that he recommended his brother to me.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Does Mr. Smith deliver any goods from your loopholes? A. Yes; if they are lying on my floors, and if any goods of his were lying in my barges they would very likely be delivered through my loopholes, into carts—I had no barrels of flour of Mr. Smith's in Aug. last—Mr. Smith's foreman is Benjamin Cuffley—this book (produced) contains the counterfoils of the receipt notes from May, 1854, to Jan. 1855—I have searched through it carefully, and there is no receipt note of any flour delivered to Jesse Ing, or on his account—it is not the custom of my house to keep sweepings in flour barrels.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Have you looked at the date, 11th Aug.? A. I have, but I will look again (doing so), there is no such entry here—here are nineteen deliveries on that day.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Are you aware of each particular transaction here
to which these entries refer? A. I look through the book every morning—I do not verify every entry myself, I trust to my clerks—these entries are in Liddiard's writing more often than not; I think most of them are in his writing, but some are in Mr. Cook's and some in Mr. Wall's.
COURT. Q. You said that Mr. Whitwell sometimes wrote orders? A. Yes, at Mark-lane; he was my counting house clerk at Mark-lane, he had nothing to do with the wharf—orders written at Mark-lane would be presented at the different wharfs; they would be filed, and when the delivery was completed, they would be taken off the delivery file and placed on the completed order file.
Q. You have looked at the file, and there are no orders? A. There are none, in favour of Jesse Ing.
NATHAN DAVID COOK . I am one of Mr. Rathbone's clerks, and have authority to effect sales for him. I have never sold any goods to Jesse Ing—I did not sell or authorise any two barrels of flour to be delivered to him, or to his representative, nor did I authorise any such being taken away without a delivery order—I have examined the file, and there is no delivery order for flour, or any other article to Jesse Ing—I have also examined the book containing the counterfoils of receipt notes; there is no receipt or acknowledgment upon his account for two barrels of flour on 11th Aug.
EDWARD LEESON WALL . I am one of Mr. Rathbone's clerks, and am authorized to effect sales on his account at the wharf—I never sold or authorized the sale of any flour or other goods to Jesse Ing—I know of no delivery order for two barrels of flour to Jesse Ing on 11th Aug.—I have examined the file and the receipt book, but find no order or receipt—I received some direction from Mr. Rathbone with respect to Jesse Ing as a customer—I did not communicate that fact to Liddiard or Mark Ing.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Will you tell me what orders you did give on 11th Aug.? A. It is impossible form to recollect—I arrive at the conclusion that I never gave an order for the delivery of two barrels of flour on 11th Aug. by this file and the market book—the market book is not here, but I can also tell by this book, in which I make entries almost every day—these entries are made at the office upon the wharf—the market book is the book in which the sales are entered—there were nineteen deliveries on 11th Aug.; sometimes there are more, and sometimes less.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. You have never sold flour or any goods to Jesse Ing in your life? A. Never—I and Mr. Wall go to the office from half past 9 to 10 o'clock—Liddiard and Ing come at 7 o'clock, and the whole responsibility would rest on Liddiard till we come.
JAMES GREENLEAF . I am a carman, of No. 1, Seabright-street, Hackney-road I know Jesse Ing—in Aug. he directed me to go down to Rath-bone's with a horse and cart, for two barrels of flour—he said his brother had got the order—I was to be there early in the morning—I went next morning, and there was a fire in the neighbourhood, and I could not get any goods delivered—I went again next morning, the 11th, about 8 o'clock, with a horse and cart, and told Mark Ing that his brother Jesse said that he had got the order—Liddiard was present; it was on the wharf—I said that I had come for two barrels of flour—I got no answer from either of them, but I got the goods from Mark Ing—he brought them to me, and put them into the cart—I saw Liddiard at that time down by the loophole—I cannot say whether the barrels of flour came from a pile which was in the shed, or whether they came from the loophole—I could not get to the loophole, because there was a waggon standing there—I brought no order, and
signed no receipt—I took the two barrels to Jesse Ing's, and was paid 18d. for going the first time, and 2s. the second, when I got them—Jesse Ing had a horse and cart once, but I do not think he had at that time.,
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Was it not in Dec. that you were first spoken to about this by Mr. Rathbone? A. I think it was before Christmas.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You have been in the habit of acting as carman for Jesse Ing for some time? A. Yes, but not lately, not for five or six months—he is a corn dealer, and has employed me to cart flour and oats from different places, and take them to his establishment—I have carted a deal of corn for him from Mr. Smith's establishment, the next wharf, many a time—I generally have an order, but Ing's brother being there I did not—I have always had an order when I have taken goods—I have never executed orders before given by word of mouth; nor have I since, or any one else—when I went I said to Mark Ing, You have got the order for two barrels of flour?"—he said nothing to that, but I got my goods, and away I came—I cannot tell whether Liddiard was standing close to Ing when I addressed myself to him, but I saw Liddiard before I left—the barrels were fastened up, and I left them at Jesse Ing's, but saw nobody except the boys—I cannot say whether he was at home—I cannot say whether the barrels contained flour or sweepings; they were full of something.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. You asked for two barrels of flour? A. Yes.
BENJAMIN CUFFLEY . I am foreman to Benjamin Smith, a corn dealer—Jesse Ing was a customer of his, and has, I believe, kept a horse and cart—I have seen him go with a horse and cart to Mr. Rathbone's several times since Aug. last, but not previously that I am aware of—he used to go there with his cart empty, and return with it loaded—it was generally before 8 o'clock in the morning, before the clerks came—Jesse Ing has been with that horse and cart on all occasions—on 11th Aug. I saw Greenleaf there about half-past 8 o'clock in the morning with an empty cart—I saw Mark Ing carry two barrels, and place them in the cart, and Greenleaf drove away with them—I put down on this paper (produced) the dates on which I saw Jesse Ing go there with his horse and cart; they are Sept. 1st, when he took away three sacks; Sept. 9th, three sacks; Sept. 20th, three sacks; Oct. 13th, two sacks; and Nov. 3rd, some sacks, but the quantity I do not know—the sacks were full—I have been in Mr. Smith's employ, I think, eleven years next month—I never to my knowledge sold or delivered to Jesse Ing, from my master's place, or from Mr. Rathbone's place, any flour—I did not deliver any flour to him, or to Greenleaf on his account on 11th Aug.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long has Jesse Ing been a customer of Mr. Smith's? A. I cannot say positively, but twelve months, at all events—he has been a purchaser on several occasions—his dealings have been principally for oats, but not exclusively—Mr. Smith also deals in flour and meal—the flour trade is not generally transacted on the premises, nor the meal—Mr. Smith's premises and Mr. Rathbone's are all under one roof—Jesse Ing may have been a purchaser previous to, in, and since Sept., but I am not aware—when he was a purchaser, he would send his horse and cart for the removal of the goods.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. You sold him no goods, and had no dealings with him, on 11th August? A. No.
COURT. Q. Could any flour have been sold to him from your premises without your knowing it? A. No; I do not believe that he has ever had
any flour from our premises during the whole time he was in business—I took down these dates in consequence of my suspicions being excited, and of a communication which had been made to me.
RICHARD BARTHOLOMEW HAYWARD (a prisoner). In Dec. last I was in the employ of Mr. Rathbone—I know the prisoners—it was my duty to be on the premises at 6 o'clock in the morning—I remember Jesse Ing coming one morning about 22nd November last, with his cart to Mr. Rathbone's; he has been at other times—it was his habit to come between 7 and 8 o'clock—he has been there frequently, and about that time in the morning; before the clerks were there—he has at times taken corn away with him, and at times sweepings—he never took away more than two quarters of corn at a time; that would be four sacks—he paid for them—he used to pay 17s. a quarter for oats—the price of oats at that time was about 30s.—I at times received the money, sometimes Liddiard, and sometimes Mark Ing—after it was received by either of us it was equally divided—on the morning of 11th Aug. I was not present; I was ill at that time—I cannot say to a certainty how many times I have been paid in that way, and the money divided between us; it might have been a dozen times.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. You are in custody now? A. Yes; I have been in custody since 9th Dec.—Mr. Rathbone has promised that if I would tell all I knew, I should be examined as a witness instead of being placed in the dock; he first told me that on 9th Dec.—I had not made any confession or statement before that—I expect that Mr. Rathbone will keep his word, and not prosecute me—all the transactions I have spoken to did not occur shortly before Nov.—I have been there thirteen or fourteen months—I do not know how much I have received during that time as my share of the spoil; I never kept any account of it.
COURT. Q. Who first proposed to you to do this; or did you propose it to them? A. No, I did not propose it to them; it was proposed among us—it was about three weeks or so after I went there—I do not remember who first spoke to me about it—I have not seen Mark Ing receive money—he has sometimes received it from his brother, at his house, and brought it the next morning—he has brought money, and shared it with me; that is how I know it—he told me that he had received it from his brother—I received the money when we were together—I have never been to Jesse Ing's residence—I have received money when we were all together.
EDWARD FUNNELL (City-policeman). I took Jesse Ing into custody on the 12th—I took him to the station—I spoke to him as we went along—I made him no promise or threat—I asked him if he knew a person of the name of Greenleaf—he said he did—I asked him where he (Greenleaf) lived—he said somewhere in the Hackney-road—I asked him if he kept a horse and cart—he said, "What name did you say, Greenleaf?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I do not know any such person"—I said, "Just now, you told me you did"—he said, "No, I do not know him."
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were you in plain clothes, or in uniform? A. In plain clothes—I went to Jesse Ing's place—his lad said he was across at a public house, and I went there and found him—I told him I was an officer, and I was about to take him into custody on a charge of receiving—he said, "I suppose it is in consequence of my brother being locked up"—his brother had been taken a few days previous—Jesse Ing did not say to me, "I am entirely innocent of receiving any property, knowing it to be stolen"; nothing of the kind—he did not say that he was wholly innocent of any guilty participation in the matter—he stood and
scratched his head, and did not make any reply—H was about twenty minutes afterwards, as I was taking him to the station, that I asked him if he knew a person of the name of Greenleaf—I was not present at the interview between him and Mr. Rathbone.
JAMES GREENLEAF re-examined. I took the two barrels of flour to Jesse Ing's shop—I did not see him—I saw his boy—I delivered them there—I saw Jesse Ing afterwards, some time in the course of the day—I told him what I had done—I told him that I had brought those two barrels of flour into his shop—I was in the habit of dealing with him, and it was included in the running account—I settled with him when I settled for the corn which I had had—I cannot say how soon after 11th Aug.—I have not got my bills with me.
(The prisoners, Mark and Jesse Ing, received good characters.)
LIDDIARD— GUILTY . Aged 31.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury,
MARK ING— GUILTY . Aged 48.
on account of their previous good
JESSE ING— GUILTY . Aged 31.
Character.— Judgment respited.
LIDDIARD PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 31.— Judgment respited
MR. GIFFABD conducted the Prosecution,
WILLIAM RATHBONE . In consequence of some information that I received, I spoke to Pollard on the morning of 15th Dec., on meeting him at the corn market—I said, "I have ascertained that you have been having corn from my place, and you knew it was dishonestly obtained"—he said, "No, I never have"—I said it was useless for him to tell me so, for I was in possession of information, and I knew he had frequently had corn away; and I asked him sharply what he had done with the five quarters of oats that he had had away the week before last, and I think I mentioned the day—he hesitated for some little time, and then said, Well, he had had five quarters away; he remembered that he had, but he could not remember where he had taken them to—I told him it was of no use for him to tell me that he could not say where he had taken them to, and he must tell—he then said that he had sold them to a man that he had met, going over Southwark-bridge, for 5l.—he said he did not know the man, nor where he lived, but he delivered them from his own cart into the other man's cart—I asked him what he was to pay for the oats to my men—he said, "17s. 6d. a quarter"—I then told him that the two parties who were with me in plain clothes were policemen, and I should give him into their custody—I asked him how he could think of robbing me in that way—he said he had been urged to do it by the others; they were continually teasing him to take the corn away, and he had often done it before—I do not think he mentioned the names of the men—I do not now remember whether he said who delivered them to him, but my impression rather is that he did name some one—he said, "Some were white oats, and some black oats"—we have all our orders and receipts filed—there is no order filed for the delivery of ten sacks of oats to Pollard, or any receipt from him for that amount—he was not employed in the warehouse; he was not a servant in the actual sense of the word, but was merely employed as a carman to cart for us—when I first brought the matter to his attention, I told him that he was engaged to
take thirty-five sacks to the South Eastern Railway; and that was the time he took the five quarters of oats, and he acknowledged it.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER (for MR. RIBTON). Q. I think you have not told us all that you said to Pollard on this occasion? A. Very likely not; I have told all that I can remember—I do not remember anything more; I do not suppose I spoke very mildly to him—I spoke sharply—I threatened him with searching his house—that was before he acknowledged where the oats had gone to—what I told him was, that I should have his house searched; it was after that that the rest of the conversation that I have related took place—he certainly seemed nervous at that—the two policemen were there during the whole time I was talking to him—I do not think I have omitted anything of importance; I have told all I remember, still I might have said something that I do not now remember—I have given the substance of the conversation.
MR. RIBTON, who had been engaged in the other Court, submitted that the confession already given in evidence was inadmissible, it having been obtained in consequence of the threat used by the witness to have his house searched. Various reasons might exist which might induce a man to make an untrue statement rather than have his house searched; he might have stolen goods deposited there; or, to put an extremecase, a dead body might be concealed there; and he contended that such a threat was amply sufficient to exclude the statement.
MR. GIFFARD was about to answer the objection, but the RECORDER considered that as the statement was already before the Jury, it would be better to reserve the point, if it became necessary.)
RICHARD BARTHOLOMEW HAYWARD . On 6th Dec. last, I saw Pollard, early in the morning, under the archway of my master's wharf, which leads into Thames-street, a little after 7 o'clock; he said that he wanted thirty-five quarters of empty sacks—I told him that the foreman, Liddiard, was in the counting house, and that if he went there he would attend to him—I then went out into the street; I came back again in a few minutes—I then saw Liddiard; he said something to me; Pollard was at his cart, close by—he could not hear what Liddiard said—I afterwards went up stairs, and I saw five quarters of oats put by Liddiard into Pollard's cart—there was one quarter of black oats, two quarters of Swedes, and two quarters of Irish—Swedes and Irish are white oats—Pollard was in His cart at the time the oats were put in—I did not see Pollard afterwards—I saw Liddiard, and received 10s. from him; I understood it was part of the money he had received for the oats.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where had Pollard to take the thirty-five quarters of empty sacks to? A. I do not know; Liddiard had to deliver them to him—I saw him deliver thirty quarters of empty sacks, and I delivered the other five quarters myself—that was seventy sacks—there are two sacks to a quarter, the whole of these sacks were empty—they were put up in three bundles of nineteen each, and nine sacks put into one which made three bundles more—there were ten full sacks—I saw Liddiard deliver them.
COURT. Q. How many of you were to share in the money? A. Liddiard and myself—he said 10s. was all that he had on account.
JAMES BETTERIDGE . I am landing porter in the prosecutor's employ—I remember seeing Pollard at the wharf, on or about the morning of 6th Dec.; I cannot swear positively that it was the 6th—it was between half past 6 and 8 o'clock, before the clerks had come—he was in his cart receiving sacks filled with grain as I supposed—they were full sacks—
Liddiard was lowering them to him through the loophole—I saw Hayward there.
Cross-examined. Q. How did you happen Jo be there so early that morning? A. It was my business to go there to unload or load vessels, and the tide going out early I had to be there to suit the tide—I expected a barge to be there, laden with grain, but it did not arrive, and I had time. to look about me, and these were the observations I made; a cart there with Pollard in it, and Liddiard lowering the sacks into his cart—I have been in Mr. Rathbone's employment about twelve years—I did not mention this on the same day, because I had no suspicion that either of them were dishonest; I considered it a correct business transaction—I had seen Pollard taking away corn before, as I supposed employed by Mr. Rathbone—I mentioned this five days afterwards.
EDWABD LEESON WALL . I did not give any order or authority or delivery order to Pollard on the morning of 6th Dec., for ten sacks of corn—I have examined the file, and there is no order or receipt for ten sacks of corn on the morning of 6th Dec.
Gross-examined. Q. What file did you examine? A. The one produced; corn is not delivered without an order—when an order is received, it is put upon the file after being backed—it is my duty to put it on the file—I do not always receive orders, if I am on the premises it would come into my hands or Liddiard's, and Mr. Cook might receive them or Mr. Rathbone, If he was there.
COURT. Q. Whose duty is it to back them? A. Mine; by backing, I mean writing on the back the quantity delivered—I get that from the delivery book; it is my duty, if I am there, to put it in the delivery book, or Liddiard's, or Mr. Cook's—if Liddiard and I are both there, then it is my duty—I give out the delivery ticket if I am there, and see the signature of the carman, and when I am not there, and Liddiard is, it is his duty.
POLLARD— GUILTY . Aged 31.— Judgment Respited.
245. DUNCAN MACLEAN WRIGHT , feloniously uttering an acceptance to a bill of exchange for 157l. 2s. 3d., with intent to defraud; also, feloniously uttering a forged acceptance to one other bill for 294l. 16s. 3d.: to both which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 45.— Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.—Four Year' Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 27.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, January 30th, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. COMMON
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 67.— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Month.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD WINDEBANK . I am an assistant to an upholsterer in Leicester-square. On Saturday, 30th Dec, the prisoner came for six yards of blind cord; she gave me a bad 5s. piece—I handed it to Mr. Russell, one of the firm—he called in a policeman, and gave it to him—I did not lose sight of it at all till he gave it—I gave the prisoner into custody.
BENJAMIN LEES (policeman, C 199). On Saturday evening, 30th Dec., I was called, and took the prisoner, and received this crown piece—I took tie prisoner to the station—she gave the name of Mary Bryan—she was locked up till Monday, and then remanded till Thursday—she was then discharged.
THOMAS WESTON . I am assistant to Mr. Holton, a butcher. On 7th Jan. the prisoner came to our shop—she asked for a pound of mutton—she gave me half a crown—I thought it was bad, and gave it to my master.
GEORGE HENRY HOLTON . I am a butcher. On Saturday night, 7th Jan., I was called by the last witness, and found the prisoner there—he said she had given him a bad half crown—I took it in my hand, and sent for a policeman—I gave the prisoner in charge, with the half crown—as we were going to the station two men came behind me, and asked me to square it, not to lock the poor woman up.
THOMAS DURRANT (policeman, C 113.) On Sunday morning, 7th Jan., I was sent for by the last witness, and took the prisoner—this half crown was given to me—a good shilling and a halfpenny was found on her.
Prisoner's Defence. I did not know it was bad.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution. ROBERT MATTHEWS. I am a grocer, and live at Hendon. On 13th Jan.
the prisoner came to my shop, and asked for a pennyworth of cheese—it was about half past 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I served him—he laid down half a crown on the counter—I took it up and said to him, "Young man, this is a very bad one; I don't intend to give you this up again"—"You don't," he said, and he walked out of the shop—I ran, and caught him in the road—I said, "I mean to take you to a policeman; I think you are a smasher"—he struggled—I led him towards the house of a policeman—I found the policeman after a short time; but during that time the prisoner had dropped another half crown—he endeavoured to pick it up, but I prevented him, and my niece took it up and gave it to the officer, and I gave my half crown to him.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me throw the half crown down? A. I did not, but I heard it chink, and I looked and saw it on the ground—my niece was about three yards behind me—she was not at the bottom of the court—she came into the shop first—I was at the door, and she told me to come and serve you.
ELIZABETH TANSLEY . I am a niece of the last witness. I saw the prisoner come in; I asked him what he wanted—he said he wanted a pennyworth of cheese—being engaged, I asked my uncle to serve him—I was afterwards coming down the court and saw my uncle leading the prisoner in the road—my uncle called me, and I followed him—he went down to the bottom of the road, and I saw the prisoner throw a half crown from his hand—I saw it as it fell, and heard it chink on the stones—the prisoner struggled, and tried to get it, but my uncle prevented him, and I picked it up and gave it to the constable—I am sure it was thrown by the prisoner.
ELIZABETH HUDSON . I live at Hendon. On Saturday afternoon, 18th Jan., I saw Mr. Matthews with the prisoner—he gave him into the policeman's charge—in returning from the high road down the lane where they had been walking, I found a half crown—I gave it to the policeman.
Prisoner. Q. You went to get some water? A. Yes; I had not got the water—I saw you, and when I was going back I saw the half crown.
COURT. Q. Where did you pick up the half crown? A. About twenty yards from Mr. Matthews's shop; the way they had brought the prisoner—I did not see him come along that way—I did not see him till the policeman had taken him—I found the half crown between the policeman's house and Mr. Matthews's; it was in the direct line from Mr. Matthew's shop to the policeman.
Prisoner. Q. When you went for your water you had a pail? A. Yes—I went down the yard towards the Greyhound public house—I picked up the half crown before I had the water in the pail—I found it about ten minutes after I went out.
Prisoner. Q. Whereabouts was your niece? A. Within two or three yards; she was behind us—I did not see the half crown thrown down; I heard it jink.
CHARLES SMITH (policeman, S 63). The prisoner was given into my charge on 13th Jan., about a quarter before 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I searched him, and found a good half crown—he gave his name William Cooper, No. 7, James-street, Skinner-street, Somers-town—he said he was a shoemaker—he afterwards gave another address at a coffee shop, in Museum-street; I went there, and there was a person of that name, but not the
prisoner—I have not been able to find the prisoner as living at the address he gave—I got this half crown from Mr. Matthews, and this half crown from Elizabeth Tansley; I received this half crown from Mrs. Hudson.
Prisoner. Q. What time was it when you took me? A. About a quarter before 4 o'clock—I searched you in Mr. Matthews's shop—I found a half crown and a halfpenny—you said, "There, is not that a good one?"—I went to a coffee shop in Museum-street, and found a Mr. William Cooper, a very respectable man, who had lodged there two years—you said it was opposite the Duke's Head—it is a fishmonger's; that is where you told me to go.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY LEE . I am shopman to Mr. Knott, an outfitter at Poplar. On 9th Jan., the prisoner came for a pair of stockings—I served him—they came to 2s. 6d., and he put down what I took to be a half sovereign—I gave him, in change, three half crowns—I put the half sovereign in the back of the till—there was no other half sovereign whatever there—my master saw it, and gave it to me afterwards—I kept it in a little purse in my pocket till the 22nd—it remained there with no other—on the 22nd, the prisoner came to the shop again—he asked for a pair of stockings, the same sort as he had before—he gave me a half sovereign—I took it, and said, "This is one of the same sort that you gave me a little more than a week ago"—he said, "I think I gave you half a crown when I was here before"—I said, "No, you gave me one like this"—I sent for a policeman and gave the prisoner in charge, and gave the two half sovereigns to the policeman.
HENRY EDGELL (policeman, K 318). I took the prisoner, and received these two half sovereigns—when we got to the station, Mr. Lee said that the prisoner had been to the shop on the 9th, and purchased a pair of stockings, and he took of him a half sovereign, which turned out to be bad—the prisoner said he had been to the shop on the 9th, and purchased a pair of stockings, and had given him a half crown, not a half sovereign; and the second time, he said he did not think it was a bad one.
GUILTY . Aged 50.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
ANN FOY . I am the wife of Thomas Foy, who keeps the Ship, at Shadwell. On 15th Jan., I saw the prisoners—they had been drinking in our house for two or three hours—Clancy asked for a glass of whiskey—he gave me a shilling—I put it in the till—there was no other shilling there, only sixpences—Hogden was standing there at the time—after that, Clancy called for a pot of beer—he gave me another shilling—I put that in the till—I sent my daughter out with one of the shillings—she brought it back—I found it was bad—I then looked at the other shilling, and that was bad—I told Clancy he had given me two bad shillings—he smiled, and said he did not think he had done it—I sent for a constable, and gave him the two shillings.
Clancy. Q. How many persons beside me called for beer and other
things? A. Several others; but you gave me the two shillings—what they had was half an hour before the bad money was tendered.
COURT. Q. Did Hogden pay you anything? A. No—there were about twenty persons drinking there; but when I found the company was going, I had the till cleared, as we have been so often robbed, and I left only four sixpences in the till—that was before I took the bad money—when the policeman was sent for, I saw Clancy take some money out of his pocket and give it to Hogden.
Clancy. Q. Do you think I knew whether the money was good or bad? A. I am on my oath; I think you did know it.
MARGARET FOY . I am the daughter of the last witness. On the 15th, she sent me out with one shilling—it was given back to me as a bad one—I gave it back to my mother—it was not out of my sight till I gave it back to her.
Clancy. Q. Do you know how long I was in the house before this man came in; I was in the house half an hour before him? A. You both came in together.
WILLIAM CHARLES POTTER (policeman, K 212). I took the prisoners into custody; I told Clancy he was charged with uttering two bad shillings—he said he had the lend of them from Hogden—I searched Hogden, and found on him another bad shilling—these are the two shillings I got from Mrs. Foy, and this other one I found on Hogden—I asked the prisoners where they lived—they did not give any address—there was a good half crown, a shilling, a fourpenny piece, and some coppers found on Hogden.
Clancy's Defence. I was drunk at the time; I had been drinking all day with seven or eight more men; I did not know whether it was good or bad; I had a good character.
Hogden's Defence. I had a misfortune, and lost my thumb off my left hand; when I came out of the hospital I had some money with me, whether it was good or bad I do not know.
CLANCY— GUILTY . Aged 36.
HOGDEN— GUILTY . Aged 55.
Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CRITCHER . I am a butcher. On 14th Jan. the prisoner came, and asked for some pieces off the board—my man served her—she paid me a shilling; I gave her change, and she left the shop—I put the shilling into a bowl where there was a sixpence and a half crown, but no other shilling—another woman came and bought a breast of mutton—I then found that the shilling which the prisoner gave me was bad—I put it into my pocket in a bit of paper, and took it home; I put it by itself till 23rd Jan., I then gave it to the officer—on the 18th the prisoner came again; she took some pieces off the board, and gave me a shilling—I gave it to my boy to give her change—he said it was a bad one—the prisoner said she would go and fetch another—I told my boy to follow her.
ALFRED CRITCHER . I am the son of the last witness. On 28th Jan. the prisoner came, and bought some pieces of meat—she gave my father a shilling; he gave it to me to give change—I put the shilling to my teeth, and bent it; I said to the prisoner, "Where did you get it?"—she said she had it given her, and she would go and get another—she went away, and I followed her
to the Vinegar-ground; I got an officer, and gave her into custody—I gave the shilling to the officer.
JOSEPH BERRYMAN (policeman, G 181). The prisoner was given into my charge on the 18th—I got this shilling from the last witness, and this other from his father—the prisoner gave an address; I inquired, but could not hear of her there.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH LAWRENCE . I keep a public house, in Mile-end-road. On 10th Jan., a little girl came for half a quartern of gin—I served her, and she gave me a counterfeit sixpence—I asked her where she came from, and sent my boy with her—he returned with the child, and a woman—while the woman and the child were at the bar, the prisoner came in—she had half a pint of beer, and she gave part of it to the woman who came back with the girl—the prisoner then left the house—the other woman and the child then went away—I kept the sixpence separate, and gave it to the officer.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. The prisoner went out first leaving the woman and child? A. Yes—I bit the sixpence, and marked it before I gave it to the officer.
JOHN KITRIG . I am pot boy to the last witness. On 10th Jan., a little girl came to the public house—I went out with her—I saw the prisoner, and another woman together—the other woman joined the child—I left the prisoner in the street, and went for an officer—I then saw the prisoner stopping in a gateway.
WILLIAM FITZGERALD (policeman, K 58). The last witness pointed out the prisoner, who was behind a pair of gates stooping down, and putting her left hand towards the ground—the prisoner then came out, and I called her—she asked what I wanted her for—I told her I wanted to know what she was doing inside the gates—she said, she was tying up her stocking—I went to the place and found this black bag with twelve bad sixpences, and three bad shillings in it—that was about three feet from the place where she had been stooping—the money was wrapped in different pieces of paper—I said to the prisoner, "I see what you have been doing"—she said, she knew nothing about it—I received this other sixpence from Mrs. Lawrence.
Cross-examined. Q. When you said, "This is what you have been doing," did she not say, "You know nothing about it?"A. No; I am quite sure she said she knew nothing about it.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. CLERK and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM HENRY PRICE . I keep a public house, No. 28, Little Moor-fields. On 29th Dec. the prisoner came, with another man, about 5 o'clock—they asked for half a quartern of rum—the prisoner gave me a good sovereign of William the Fourth—the other man said, "I have got coppers; return the sovereign to my friend"—I gave it back to the prisoner—there
was then some shuffling between them, and the prisoner said, "Never mind about the coppers; take it out of this sovereign," throwing down a sovereign of Queen Victoria—I saw immediately that it was bad—I said, "I must keep this, and I shall lock you up"—I sent My potman for a policeman, and put the sovereign on a shelf—the prisoner and the other man went out, and met a third man, dressed like a carman, but I think he was a companion of theirs—I went after them, and they returned into the house—the prisoner desired to see the sovereign—I showed it him at a distance—the prisoner then went out, leaving the other two men at the bar—I followed the prisoner fifty or sixty yards, met a policeman, and gave him in charge—I gave the sovereign to the policeman—the other man escaped during my absence.
Prisoner. Q. When I gave you the sovereign what did you do with it? A. I put it in a glass, where there were only two other sovereigns.
MR. CLERK. Q. What was this glass? A. A narrow bottomed glass—two sovereigns would not lie by the side of each other; one must lie on the other—I put this one on the top of the others, and took it up again, and gave it to the policeman.
MRS. PRICE. On 29th Dec. my son gave the bad sovereign into my charge while he went after the man—he had placed it on a shelf—I gave it back into his hand—after the prisoner had left, another man remained, and he wished to see the sovereign—I would not let him, and he left the house.
Prisoner. Q. When your son took the sovereign did he place it in your hand? A. He laid it on a shelf; I took it from the shelf, and kept it in my hand.
JOHN HENRY SUCH (City policeman, 116.) On 29th Dec. I took the prisoner into custody—nothing was found on him—Mrs. Price gave me this sovereign—the prisoner gave his address, No. 4, Union-buildings, Holborn—I went there, but could not find him.
Prisoner. I said No. 14. Witness. I went to No. 14, after I had been to two No. 4's, but I could get no information about him.
Prisoner's Defence. When I first went into this person's house I gave him a sovereign; he put it into a glass, in which I think there were six or seven sovereigns; my friend said he would pay, and the landlord went to the glass, and put his hand in, and took out a sovereign; but he does not know that it was the one; I gave him the sovereign afterwards, and he said, "This is a bad one;" I said, "It is the one you gave me;" he said, "No; I shall give you in charge;" I went out, and said I was unfit to be given in charge; I was just out of a fever; he took me to the station; there was nothing found about me; they all have access to this glass his mother and the others; he never looked in the glass, but put his hand in, and gave me one out.
GUILTY . Aged 36.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. CLERK and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL JARMAN . I am clerk to the Solicitor of the Treasury, I produce a certificate of the conviction of John Vincent (read: Central Criminal Court, Nov. 1853; John Vincent, convicted of uttering counterfeit coin. Confined Six Months.)
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where was he tried? A. In this Court—I was a witness in the case.
ELIZA SARAH ANDREWS . My husband is a cheesemonger, in Pimlico. On 16th Dec., the prisoner came between 11 and 12 o'clock at night for a quarter of a pound of butter, and two eggs—he tendered me a 5s. piece, and I gave him change—he left the shop—I put the 5s. piece in the till—there was other money there, but no other 5s. piece—the moment he turned from the counter I took the 5s. piece out of the till—I examined it, and it was bad—I marked it, and put it in paper, and put it in the cash box—on Saturday night, 6th Jan., the prisoner came again between 11 and 12 o'clock for half a pound of butter—it came to 6d.—he gave me a counterfeit 5s. piece—I took it up and said, "This is a bad one, and this is the second you have given me"—he said, "You are mistaken, I am not the person"—I called my husband, and he fetched a policeman, the prisoner was given into custody in my shop—I gave the last 5s. piece to the constable, and the former 5s. piece was taken from the cash box by my husband—I saw him do it—the cash box was kept locked up in the parlour—it was wrapped up in a piece of paper—I looked at it—I had marked it on the edge on 16th Dec.—it was given to the constable—I have seen it since.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you serving alone on 16th Dec.? A. Yes; my husband was at home, but not in the shop—when I took the first 5s. piece, I put it in the till, and closed the till—I had never seen the prisoner before—there were some shillings and sixpences in the till—I cannot say whether there were any half crowns—the prisoner was in the shop about two minutes—I had three gas lights in the shop—when the prisoner came the second time, I charged him with having been there before, and he said he was not the man—he said I was mistaken—I did not say that if he would give me 5s. he might go—I said I was as glad as if any one had given me 5s. that he came that night, as we had let our shop—I did not say, "I will not charge a policeman with you if you will give me 5s.—I did not want the 5s.—I did not say, "If you won't give me the 5s. I will give you in charge, and you shall be locked up till Monday morning"—I said he would be locked up till Monday morning—I was standing behind the counter, and he was in the shop, while I had this conversation with him—I tried the 5s. piece with the trier, to see if it would bend—I said it was bad.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did you call your husband when you found this was bad? A. Yes; when my husband came in I said to the prisoner, "I am glad you have come in"—I said so, because we were about to leave on Monday—I did not make the prisoner any offer to give him back the 5s. piece if he would give me 5s.
ROBERT POLLARD (policeman, B 108.) On the evening of 6th Jan. I was sent for to the shop of the last witness—the prisoner was there, and he was given into custody for passing a crown that night and one previously—I received this money from Mr. Andrews, in presence of the last witness—the prisoner said he never was in the shop before—he gave an address, but I did not go to inquire.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These are both counterfeit. (The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"On Saturday night last I went to the shop very late for half a pound of butter; I gave her the crown, and she said, "If you will give me the change for the 5s. piece, I will not charge a policeman with you; I think you have
been here before;' I said she might do as she thought proper; she had taken a bad 5s. piece of somebody, but I could not be responsible for her taking a bad 5s. piece; I did not see why I should give her 5s., it was bad enough for me to lose this 5s. piece, if it was bad; she said, 'If you won't give me 5s. I will give you in charge, and you shall be locked up till Monday morning.'")
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Two Years.
MESSRS. CLERK and GEARY conducted the Prosecution.
CAROLINE DONNELL . I am the wife of William Donnell; we keep a brothel. On Saturday night, 23rd Dec., the prisoner came to our house and brought a woman—he asked for a room, and I showed him one—I asked him for the money—he gave me half a crown—I sent my daughter to get change; she came back and said it was bad—I gave it to the prisoner, and asked him to give me some other money—he said he had no more—I sent for a policeman, and gave him the half crown—before the policeman came I saw the prisoner put his hand in his pocket and throw a bad shilling on the ground—I heard it fall, and when the policeman came, the young woman who was with the prisoner took up the shilling, and gave it to the policeman—the prisoner was taken to the station.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. What was the prisoner to pay you? A. Fourpence—I stood at the door—the room door remained open as wide as it would go—the prisoner did not go—he did not seem the worse for liquor—I had never seen him before—I saw him walk up stairs—I said I would send for a policeman, but he did not go—I did not see him searched—I did not look at the half crown particularly—I know it was a half crown—I did not notice what reign it was—I did not know the young woman who was with the prisoner—I have carried on this occupation twelve years.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did you give the same piece of money to your daughter that the prisoner gave you? A. Yes—when my daughter brought me back a piece of money, I gave that to the officer.
PENELOPE DONNELL . I am the daughter of the last witness—I live at her house, in the parish of Whitechapel—I saw the prisoner at my mother's house that night—my mother gave me a half crown—I went to the public house and asked for change—I gave the half crown to the landlady, she tried it in a trier—I saw her do it—she gave me back the half crown—it was never out of my sight—I took it back, and gave it to my mother—I went for a constable.
Cross-examined. Q. How old are you? A. Sixteen—I live with my father and mother—I do not take any part in this business—I do not assist in keeping up the house—my mother and father keep me.
MICHAEL LONEY (policeman, H 108). On Saturday night, 23rd Dec., I was called into Mrs. Donnell's house—I found the prisoner, and a woman in the room with him—Mrs. Donnell gave me this bad half crown—she said that the prisoner had dropped some money on the floor—I told the young woman to stoop down and see if she could see any, and she found this shilling—I found a half crown on the prisoner—I took him to the station, and found eight shillings and three half crowns in his inside waistcoat pocket, wrapped up in paper—he had outside pockets, but there was nothing in them—he refused to give his address—I asked him where he got the money; he made no answer—on the 26th, he said he picked it up in the street—when I took him into custody he had had a drop to drink, but he was sober.
Cross-examined. Q. What day was it you took him? A. On Saturday
night, the 23rd; and on Tuesday, the 26th, I took him to the Court—in the meanwhile he had been locked up in the cell—I had not been in attendance upon him—I will undertake to say positively that I asked him at the station where he got the money—the sergeant and two men on the reserve were present at the station when I did so—I found only one pocket handkerchief on him—I went to see where he lived—I did not go to his master—I never saw him before that evening to my knowledge.
COURT. Q. What coin was found on him? A. Three half crowns and eight shillings, and one shilling on the floor—I did not find any good money on him.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half crown that was first produced is bad—these other three are bad, and from the same mould as the first—this, shilling that was found is bad—six of these others are bad, and from the same mould as that one—the other two shillings are from one mould.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Eighteen Months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, January 31st, 1855.
PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. LORD MAYOR; Mr. Baron PARKE; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. SALOMONS; Mr. Ald. WIRE; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Baron Parke and the Third Jury.
MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.
HANNAH SCOTT . I am a widow, and live at No. 1, Bates-buildings, Hoxton. At Christmas last, I was minding the house of my niece, Miss Swift, that is called Middleton-lodge, Dalston—the prisoner was living there as servant—on 28th Dec., there was no one in the house but me and her—about 8 or 9 o'clock that evening, she complained to me of illness; she said she had got a very bad pain all round her—I gave her a little penny-royal and gin—she then went to bed—I had not perceived before, from her personal appearance, anything indicating that she was with child—at 1 o'clock in the morning I went to her room—she was in bed—she still complained of pains in her inside, and I gave her a little more of what I had given her before; she took it—she then said she felt a little more comfortable—I then left her, and went to my bed—I did not sleep in the same room—about 6 o'clock on the same morning I went to her again; I thought perhaps she might want something, as I heard a little noise—she was then in bed—I had a light with me—I saw a lot of blood on the carpet, from the door to the bed—on seeing that, I said to the prisoner, "My God! what has been the matter?"—she said, "Don't be frightened, I am all right now"—I did not remain a great while in the room on that occasion—I told her to lie down, and I would get her some breakfast—I went down stairs into the kitchen to get her some—I opened the shutters, and found some blood on the kitchen table—there was no cloth on the table—there was quite a puddle of blood on the table—I also saw some spots of blood on the floor near the table—I got a candle, and followed the spots of blood
into the coal cellar—you go through a passage from the kitchen to the cellar—it is in front of the house in the area—I went into the coal cellar, and found a bloody cloth and a pair of stockings soaked in blood—I searched the cellar—I moved a box, and behind the box I saw the body of a dead c hild, with the head downwards; it was quite naked—the box was at the left-hand side of the cellar as you go in against the wall, and the body was between the box and the wall—there was a barrel under the box; the box was on the top of the barrel, and the child was stuffed between the barrel and the wall—the box was close against the wall a top of the barrel, and a top of that was the knife board, to heighten it to the prisoner's height to clean the knives, and that was flush against the wall; it touched the wall—I did not take up the body—I immediately sent for Mr. Herring, the surgeon, who has attended the family for years—it was about 10 o'clock when I found the body—it was at 8 o'clock that I went down to get her some breakfast, but I did not find the body till 10 o'clock—I saw the blood in the kitchen when I went down at 8 o'clock, but I did not perceive it immediately—I saw the spots of blood about 8 o'clock—I began to trace the marks directly, but I was a long while finding the child—I was about two hours in tracing the blood, before I found the child in the cellar—I could not find which way to turn, the passage was dark, and I went first to the right, and then to the left, till I could find it—I had no idea of this, but still I thought there was a something wrong—I saw a knife on the kitchen table at the same time I saw the blood; the handle of it was bloody—this (produced) is it—I afterwards gave it to the policeman—the handle was more bloody than it is now, and the blade was a little bloody on the edge.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. HOW long had this poor girl been living at your niece's as servant? A. About four years and a half, and a very good servant she was—she was a very kind, good hearted girl—the room in which she slept was upstairs—when I left her about 1 o'clock in the morning I did not leave any candle with her—there was no candle in her room—I took the lucifers, and told her to knock for me if she wanted anything—when I saw her about 6 o'clock in the morning, and saw the spots of blood on the floor, it was dark—I took a light in—she had no light in her room—it was about 11 or 12 o'clock that the doctor came—I was present when he had an interview with the prisoner—I did not, before he came, tell her that it would be better for her to tell the truth—I did tell her to tell the truth—that was after Mr. Herring came—he was not present then, it was after he had been—I do not remember that he had any conversation with her after I told her to tell the truth—the conversation he had with her was before I told her to tell the truth—I was present when he came up to her; I took him up—the first thing he said to her was, "Oh, Ann, how came you to do such a cruel thing?"—when I went to the prisoner at 6 o'clock she said she was better, she did not appear so much distressed then as she had been—she said she was more comfortable, and told me not to be frightened—she has always been a kind, good hearted girl.
WILLIAM HERRING . I am a surgeon, and live at No. 6, Newmarket-place, Dalston. I was sent for on 29th Dec., between 11 and 12 o'clock, to the house of Miss Swift, at Dalston—I saw Mrs. Scott—she showed me a table in the kitchen, upon which was a large pool of blood, about the size of a dinner plate—it was wet—I saw a knife by the side of it, similar to the one produced—it was bloody, both on the handle and blade—the blood on the knife was nearly dry—I observed spots of blood on the floor—I traced them
from the table towards the coal house door—I went into the coal cellar—Mrs. Scott pointed out a barrel to me there, standing at the edge of a heap of coals near to the wall—behind the barrel I found the body of a new born infant male child—it was half exposed, with the head downwards, resting on the coals—I took it up and placed it on a napkin on the barrel—I examined the child, and found that its throat had been cut—it was a large wound, extending from underneath the left ear, across the throat, dividing the blood vessels on the left side and the windpipe—supposing that wound to have been inflicted when the child was alive, it would certainly have caused its death—this knife would have caused such a wound—I afterwards went to the prisoner's room with Mrs. Scott—I found the prisoner in bed—I said to her, "This is a very sad thing, Ann; how could you do so cruel an act?"—her reply was, "Do what, Sir?"—I said, "How could you destroy the poor little creature?"—she made no answer to that—I then said to her, "Did you destroy it to prevent its crying?"—she said, "It did not cry, Sir"—I said, "Where did you do it?"—she said, "Down stairs"—I asked her if she had made any provision for the child in the shape of clothing—she said she had not—I then asked her what had become of the afterbirth—she did not seem to know what I meant—she said she had got nothing more—I then examined her, and found that the afterbirth had not been removed—of course she must have been recently delivered, because the afterbirth had not come—I compared the end of the navel string attached to the child, and the end attached to the afterbirth, and they agreed—I have no doubt that child must have been attached to that afterbirth—the umbilical cord was cut—I should say that would enable me to compare the end better than if it had been torn—the ends decidedly corresponded—I should say from five to six hours had elapsed between the delivery and my finding the body—next day I made a complete examination of the body of the child—I should say that it must certainly have been alive at the time the wound in the throat was inflicted—in wounds made upon a living subject, the edges are always red, everted, or turned out; and there are little spots of coagulated blood from the extremities of the vessels—that would be caused by the coagulation of the blood just before death.
COURT. Q. Would not those appearances equally occur after death whilst the circulation continued, as it will do for a short time afterwards? A. I should say not—my opinion is, that they would not occur as soon as vitality had ceased, it must be within a very few minutes after vitality has ceased for the appearances to be such—it might take place during life, or a very short time after death—my experience will not enable me to say that—it must take place during life, or some very short time afterwards—I should say a very few minutes would be sufficient to do away with the appearances that were presented here.
MR. CAARTEN. Q. Did you open the body of the child? A. I did; it was the body of a full grown, mature, healthy child—the lungs were fully inflated, and of a pale pink colour, which would not have been the case had not the child breathed for some little time; the heart was almost entirely emptied of blood—I placed the lungs in water—they were perfectly crepitant or crackling under the fingers when pressed between them, showing the presence of air—every portion of them floated in water when cut—I cut them, I think, into half a dozen separate portions, and each portion perfectly floated—the inference I draw from that is, that the child must have respired some minutes at least.
Cross-examined. Q. With respect to the appearances caused by the cut,
I gather from you, that those appearances would be presented if the cut had been made either during life, or within some few minutes after death? A. Perhaps they might within a few minutes after death—the test to which I subjected the lungs is that which is ordinarily called the hydrostatic test—I have read authors upon medical jurisprudence—I recognise Beck and Taylor as high authorities upon that subject—whether the hydrostatic test proves merely that a child has breathed, or been born alive, is, I believe, a questio vexati, but I cannot suppose it possible that the lungs can be filled with air unless it be a vital act; the lungs may be inflated with air before the body of the child comes into the world, but still the child is alive—I do not believe that when the head is in the world, and the body in the vagina, respiration may go on sufficiently to inflate the lungs, I mean not to such an extent as I saw—I do not dispute that a child may breathe before the body is completely born; I have known that in my own experience, but not to such a degree as these lungs appeared to me to be inflated—I made the examination about thirty-six hours after the supposed death—I do not think the value of the hydrostatic test is enhanced by its being applied immediately after death—as soon as I saw the wound in the child's throat, my impression was that it had been born alive—I was examined before the Magistrate—I formed the opinion which I have stated here to-day the next day, after I had made the post mortem examination, and applied the hydrostatic test, and I had formed the same opinion before, as soon as I saw it, and the appearance the wound presented; my opinion was confirmed by the post mortem examination—this is the first case of alleged infanticide in which I have been professionally concerned—I have been in practice since 1828—I have examined the bodies of a great many children soon after death, who have been prematurely born, in which the lungs have been partially inflated—I do not know whether the hydrostatic test is, in the abstract, a means by which you can determine whether or not a child has been born alive—abstractedly, I do not think it is sufficient, because if the child has not breathed with some force, the whole of the lungs would not be fully inflated—in children that I have assisted to deliver that have died within a short time, say half an hour after delivery, the lungs of which I have examined, not knowing the cause of death, I have never found the lungs so fully inflated; there has always been some large portion that would sink in water.
Q. Acquainted as you are with the authorities upon medical jurisprudence, will you tell me whether or not you subscribe to this doctrine of Professor Taylor, "The hydrostatic test is no more capable of showing that a child has been born alive or dead, than it is of proving whether it has been murdered or died from natural causes?"A. My own experience would not lead me to believe that—I have never before been engaged professionally in an inquiry of this nature—I cannot pretend to say that the opinion founded on Dr. Taylor's experience is incorrect; I am only bound to give you the result of my own experience—as far as my experience goes, I do dissent from the doctrine there laid down—I am aware that there are other tests made use of in matters of this kind by medical jurists—there is the static test, that of weighing the lungs—I did not make use of that—there is another test, called Pluca's test, but I have never tried it—the hydrostatic test is the only one I have ever applied—(At the suggestion of the COURT, MR. SLEIGH read to the witness the whole of the following passage, from p. 387 of Dr. Taylor's work: "From what has already been stated, as well as from the most simple reflection upon the circumstances accompanying the birth
of children, I think it must be evident that the hydrostatic test is no more capable of showing that a child has been born alive or dead, than it is of proving whether it has been murdered or died from natural causes. The majority of those who have made experiments upon this subject, have only pretended to show, by the use of this and other tests, whether or not a child has breathed. They merely serve to furnish, in many cases, good proof of life from the state of the lungs; and slight reflection will render it apparent, that in no case are they susceptible of doing more.")—I do not subscribe to that doctrine—the umbilical cord had been cut—there are certain presentations in which the umbilical cord is twisted round the neck of the child in utero—there was no ligature round either extremity of the cord—the length of the cord from the umbilicus of the child was six or eight inches, and that of the placenta about the same—that is about the ordinary length—where delivery is unaided by professional assistance it is likely to be longer in duration than where professional assistance is at hand—I cannot say whether respiration is then more likely to take place in the vagina—it is barely possible that a child may be more likely to breathe in the vagina; but the majority of children, even in protracted labours, do not breathe until some minutes after they are born—where a delivery is long, the possibility of breathing in the vagina is greater than where it is short.
SAMUEL CRISP (policeman, N 226). On the afternoon of 29th Dec., the prisoner was given into my custody—this knife was given to me by Mrs. Scott—it is in the same state as when I received it—I have not put anything upon it, or rubbed anything from it.
MR. SLEIGH to MR. HERRING. Q. I believe, in cases where the umbilical cord is twisted round the neck of the child, the process of cutting it by the surgeon who attends is considered so hazardous, that there is a peculiar pair of scissors manufactured for the purpose, to prevent an incision, by accident, in the throat of the child? A. We never cut the cord from the child's neck—there may be a pair of scissors for that purpose, but I do not think it necessary—there is a pair of scissors of that kind made; but I have had similar cases, and never required them—I have no doubt that the pains of unassisted labour are sometimes sufficient to cause an aberration of intellect—I cannot say whether a female under such circumstances may, from pain and anxiety, become deprived of all judgment, and destroy her offspring without being conscious of what she is doing—I believe that the pains of unassisted labour, may be such as to cause a temporary deprivation of reason.
GUILTY of concealing the birth. Aged 20.— Confined Two Years.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
263. BENJAMIN HOOPER SPIERS , feloniously forging and uttering, on 6th April, an order for the payment of 58l. 8s. 6d.; also, on 18th Dec., an order for 370l.; also, on 18th Dec., a request for the delivery of a banker's cheque book, with intent to defraud: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 24.
(Mr. George Young, manager of the Bank at Swansea, and Mr. William Benham, schoolmaster, of Gloucester, deposed to the prisoner's good character.)
MR. BODKIN, for the prosecution, stated that since the prisoner had been in custody, he had made a statement, exculpating others from all blame, and preventing much inconvenience to the Bank.)— Transported for Fifteen Years.
Before Mr. Baron Parke and the First Jury.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and BAYLEY conducted the Prosecution.
ANNE CLOUGH . I am a widow, and reside now at No. 95, London-road, Southwark; I formerly occupied a beershop, in Middle Grove-street, St. George's-in-the-East. On Wednesday, 13th Dec., the prisoner came to that beer shop, between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening—he called for a glass of ale, and I served him—he asked me if my house was to be disposed of—I told him, yes—I had previously advertised the house for sale in the newspapers—I asked him if he would like to look at the inventory—after looking at it, he went out into the neighbourhood, and looked about—he said he should like to look at the neighbourhood, to see if it was a good one, before he made any to-do about the house—he came back, and I showed him over the house—he said he liked the house very well, and it would just do for him and his son—he asked if I would have anything to drink, and we had a pint of ale between us, which he paid for—he asked how much I would take for the house—I said, "Nothing less than 25l."—he said he would not give any more than 18l.—he stuck to that from the time of his coming in until his going out—after some time had elapsed, I told him I would take 20l. for it—he said, no, he would not give any more than the 18l.—we finally agreed on 19l.—he then sent my little girl for a quartern of gin, and paid for it—I took a very little of it—he agreed to give me the 19l., and I called in Robert Baker to draw up the agreement, and witness it—this is the agreement Baker drew up—(This being read, the prisoner, described as Joseph Stanley, agreed to take the house of the witness, and pay a deposit of 1l.)—the prisoner signed this "Joseph Stanley" in my presence—he had told me during the conversation that his name was Joseph Stanley, and that he had come from Uxbridge that morning—he said he was a small farmer there—lie said it would do for his son, and he would bring his son next day; if he was not there between 12 and 2 o'clock, he would be at 4 o'clock—he said his son was lately married, and the business would just do for him—I asked him for a deposit of 3l.—he said, "No; if I give you a deposit of 3l. I shall leave myself without money; I will leave you a deposit of 1l., and I will return to you to-morrow, as I mean to do business"—I afterwards agreed with him for a deposit of 1l.—while the inventory was being written out, he handed me a 5l. note to be changed, in order to make the 1l. deposit—I asked him to write his name on the note, and he wrote on it, "Joseph Stanley," in my presence—this is the note (produced)—I took it to a neighbour, Mr. Smith, a grocer, to get it changed, and I wrote my name on it in Mr. Smith's shop—when I got back to my house I put the money down on the table—the whole of the 5l. was in silver—the prisoner picked up 4l., and left 1l. on the table for me—he then said if he did not make haste he should be too late for the bus—he said he wanted to go to Paddington—whilst he was reaching over his hand to take up the money, I noticed his hand, and noticed that the top part of his finger was off—as he went away, he said he should be to his time appointed next day—he seemed to be in a very great hurry to be off after he had got the
money—he never returned—on 21st Dec. I was sent for to the police station, and saw him there—he is the same man.
Cross-examined by MR. TORR. Q. How long had you been keeping this house? A. About four months—I had never seen the prisoner before—he was sitting in my bar whilst this agreement was being written out; it is in Baker's writing; it is merely the signature that is the prisoner's—when he had signed it he doubled it up and gave it to me—I put my signature to it also—there were two copies, and we each signed both, and each kept one.
ROBERT BAKER . I was at Mrs. Clough's beer shop on Wednesday night, between 5 and 6 o'clock—I saw the prisoner there, somewhere about 5 o'clock—I saw Mrs. Clough lead him through the house—about 10 o'clock in the evening I was asked to prepare an agreement—he gave the name of Joseph Stanley, of Uxbridge, and said he was a kind of small farmer and grazier there—after going up and examining the house, I saw him go out into the back yard—I was sitting in the back room at the time—this produced is one of the agreements that I prepared—I prepared two, one was a copy of the other—he invited me to take a drop of gin and water which he had got on the table—I saw him sign the agreements—I remember his going away, it was then a little after 10 o'clock—I had been in the house since 3 o'clock—I do not think he was there at the time—I do not know when he went out, I being in one room and Mrs. Clough in the other—I observed him in and about the premises from 5 o'clock till about half-past 10 o'clock—I have not the least doubt that he is the man—I did not notice his finger at all.
JOSEPH HOLDING . I am a plumber and glazier, of Middle Grove-street, Commercial-road. On the evening of 13th Dec, I was in Mrs. Clough's house—I frequently went into the bar—I saw the prisoner come in—he asked if that was the house that was advertised that morning—Mrs. Clough said, "Yes," and he walked in and sat down—when I went in to fetch beer I saw him there—he is the same man—he came into the tap room about 10 o'clock, and asked which was the yard—I got up and showed him—he came back, put his hand in his pocket, and pulled out a note—I saw that as I was coming from the tap room to the bar for beer—I did not see him write his name—I heard him say, in the course of the evening, that the house was for his son, who was lately married, and lived at Uxbridge.
SAMUEL SMITH . I am a grocer, of No. 31, Grove-street. On 13th Dec., Mrs. Clough came to me for change for a 5l. note—I asked her to put her name upon it—she did so—this produced is it—I took it to the bank two days afterwards.
THOMAS TOWNSEND (policeman, H 54.) In consequence of a description which I found at the station, and knowing the prisoner, I took him into custody, on 21st Dec., between 11 and 12 o'clock, in High-street, Aldgate—I said that I was looking for him, and wanted to take him to the station—he said, "What for?"—I told him it was for uttering a forged 5l. Bank of England note—he said, "I will go with you like a gentleman; you will find that it is not me"—I went to the station with him—I then went for Mrs. Clough, took her to the station, and she said that the prisoner was the man, and Mr. Baker came also, and said the same—the prisoner said that Mrs. Clough must be a wrong woman, or something like that, to say that it was him, for she had never seen him before—I afterwards searched him, and found two medals, one of the size of a sovereign, and the other of half a sovereign, and also a flash note—I asked him his name—he said, "James Crowther, 14, Saint Andrew's-road, New Kent-road," and I found that he
was lodging there—he did not tell me how long he had been living there—I did not go into the neighbourhood of Uxbridge to inquire about him—I examined his hand; the second finger of one hand, I did not notice which, was short of a joint—I mentioned that at the Thames Police Court.
Cross-examined. Q. When you went to inquire his address at the New Kent-road, who did you see? A. The woman who kept the house—I asked if there was a person living there named Crowther—she said, "Yes"—I asked what sort of a person he was—she said, "An oldish man"—I searched the place, in consequence of the prosecutrix saying that he had drab trowsers, but I could not find any.
GUILTY . Aged 50.— Five Year's Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, January 31st, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FARNCOMB; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
265. CHARLES WARWICK, JOSEPH ADAMS , and DAVID WRIGHT , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling house of James Crampton, stealing 2 tills, some mutton, and other articles, value 7s.; his property; also, stealing 93 saws, and other goods, of Simon Price, and another: to which
WARWICK— PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.
ADAMS— PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 15.
WRIGHT— PLEADED GUILTY .† Aged 15.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Three Months.
MARY ANN BLANCHETT BRETT . I keep a shop at Hampton, it has confectionery on one side, and fruit on the other. On 2nd Jan., Grout came in between 2 and 3 o'clock; he asked for a halfpenny stale bun, which I had not got—I sold him a halfpenny worth of gingerbread—I saw Richardson looking in at the window—as Grout went out I went to shut the door, and there was a piece of Christmas holly on the ground, which had been by the side of the gingerbread—I then looked, and missed a shilling cake of gingerbread that had not been in the same end of the window that Richardson was looking in—he was at the fruit window, but I should think he could see Grout take the gingerbread—I should think he could see all over the shop—as soon as I missed the gingerbread I went to the door, and saw the two prisoners going down towards Hampton Church—Mrs. Barnes told me something, and as the policeman was going by I spoke to him—he followed the prisoners, and took Richardson, and brought him back to me.
Richardson. I was not looking in the window; I was looking towards Hampton Church? Witness. No; he was looking in the window.
BENJAMIN BARKER (policeman, V 262). I was spoken to by Mrs. Brett; I followed the two prisoners, they were walking in company together—I followed them about 200 yards, and when I got to them Grout ran away—I took Richardson into custody, and he had this cake of gingerbread concealed under the right hand side of his coat—about three quarters of an hour afterwards, I took Grout—he was near the palace at Hampton Courts, by the side of the green—he said he knew what I wanted him for, he was willing to go.
Richardson. I was hungry.
Grout. We were both hungry.
RICHARDSON— GUILTY of receiving. Aged 18.— Confined Two Months.
GROUT— GUILTY of stealing. Aged 14.— Judgment Respited.
268. THOMAS ARTHUR CORLETT, stealing on 2nd Sept., 1 envelope, 1 order for payment of money, and 5 pieces of paper, and money of the Electric Telegraph Company, his masters: 2nd COUNT, a like offence on 27th Nov.; 3rd COUNT, a like offence on 16th Dec.
MESSRS. BODKIN and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY SCHUTZE WILSON . I am assistant secretary to the Electric Telegraph Company, in Lothbury. The prisoner was in the employ of the company in Sept., Oct., and Dec. last—in Sept. last, I received a written application from Mr. Harrison—I have it in my hand—(read, "Sir,—I sent a message to Weston-super-Mare, to Miss Harrison; I paid 13s. for the message; I was informed that she had paid 6s., which 6s. must be returned"—on receipt of this I caused inquiries to be made, and I found Mr. Harrison was entitled to the sum of 5s.—I instructed the prisoner to write a letter to Mr. Harrison; he did not write it in my presence—I saw the letter after it was written, he brought it to me and I signed it—I hold the letter in my hand—it refers to an order, which I hold in my hand—an order for the payment of 5s., from the company to Mr. Harrison—the order was made out by the prisoner, and signed by myself—having signed the letter, and order—the prisoner's duty was to copy the letter in a book for that purpose, and to put the letter and order in an envelope, and give it to the person whose absolute duty it was to send the letters to the post—having put it in the envelope I fastened it, and it was the prisoner's duty to pass it to another clerk to pass it to the post office—there is a drawer in the office of which the prisoner had the use, and of which he had the key—I know of no other key to it—it was a drawer for the prisoner's use—I believe there was no other communication from Mr. Harrison—the original application was dated in Sept., I cannot tell the date—the letter written by the company to Mr. Harrison, was on the 2nd of Sept.—in consequence of something that took place I made inquiries, and about the the latter end of Dec. I found accidentally the letter which I directed the prisoner to send—I found it in the drawer in the secretary's office, of which the prisoner had the key—I found also several letters—I found the envelope directed to Mr. Harrison—I have it—there is no post mark on it, and no stamp—it is apparently in the same state as it was at first—the stamp would be put on by the persons who attend to the absolute posting of the letters—the money has been paid to Mr. Harrison since the 2nd of Sept.—I issued the order for it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Was this drawer in the secretary's
office? A. Yes—this letter I gave to the prisoner, and it wag his duty to pass it—at the corner of this order there is, "Sent in stamps to Weston"—there have been rare occasions in which that has been done—this order was paid at the counter to the prisoner by a clerk; either Mr. Collingwood or Mr. Cadman—it was an irregularity for them to pay it—if this order were sent to any telegraph office, it was wrong for a clerk to pay it—they were misled by the representation of the prisoner—it was a wrongful act on their part.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Postage stamps are sent occasionally? A. Yes, occasionally they are—if postage stamps are to be sent, I should cause them to be sent by our accountant—I should draw an order on the accountant for postage stamps—this "postage stamps" is the prisoner's handwriting; he had no authority whatever to get this order cashed, instead of sending it—he had no authority whatever to keep back the letter and envelope, instead of sending them to Mr. Harrison.
WILLIAM CADMAN . I am a clerk in the office of the Electric Telegraph Company. It was my duty to pay orders when presented to me—I do not remember paying this order, but I was on duty that evening; I was the only person paying orders on the evening of the 2nd Sept.
COURT. Q. You were alone, were you? A. Yes—I do not remember paying this order; I do not undertake to say I did not—when it was paid, it was my duty to hand it over to De Conde—the only other person who could pay orders was a person of the name of Collingwood—the name of Corlett is on the order—that is the prisoner's writing, "Received of the Electric Telegraph Company, 5s. T. A. Corlett."
Cross-examined. Q. You have no recollection of paying that money at all? A. No; it is a wrong thing to pay these orders.
HUBERT DE CONDE . I would not positively swear that I received this order from Cadman, but it must have passed through my hands—I must have received it from Cadman or from Collingwood—the cheque book will show that I passed it to the other clerks, and received money of them again—these orders I take from the counter clerk, and pay them in to another clerk in the accountant's office, who pays me the money—I am responsible for that money—I advance the money for the payment of them—I pass them on, and get the money back.
COURT. Q. The counter clerks are supplied with money from the till? A. Yes, and they give me the order; I take it to the accountant's office, and they pay me the money—in the ordinary course of business, this must have passed through my hands.
HULME BESSELL . I am a clerk in the accountant's office of the Electric Telegraph Company. It was my duty to receive the orders of Mr. De Conde—I recollect receiving this order from Mr. De Conde, and paying the money to him—I remember it by having recorded it in a book on 3rd Sept.—the order was dated on 2nd Sept., and would be paid on the 3rd.
FRANCIS SCARTH . I am a friend of Mr. Richard Tarrant Harrison. At his request I took an order to the Electric Telegraph Company's office to Weston-super-Mare—in consequence of my having deposited 13s. at the time the message was taken, there was afterwards a request made for the return of 6s.—I did not receive any letter containing an order for the 6s.—I afterwards made a second application, at Mr. Harrison's request; I am unable to say when it was, it was after the long vacation—whether the second request was written, or a verbal one was made, I am not able to say—this note (looking at it) is my writing—I should think this was the first application
—I have seen Mr. Harrison to-day; he is confined to his bed, and quite unable to come here; a medical man attends him—I was present before the Magistrate—Mr. Harrison was examined; the prisoner was present, and had an opportunity to ask him any questions.
(The deposition of Mr. Harrison was here read, as follows: "Richard Tarrant Harrison on his oath saith, as follows: I am a special pleader, in Brick-court, Temple. In the month of Aug. last, I had occasion to send an electric message to my sister at Weston-super-Mare—I found I had been overcharged, and I got my friend Mr. Scaife to make an application to the company—I received a letter from Mr. Wilson, inclosing me an order, which I received, and gave a receipt on the order—this is the only sum I received from the company.")
Cross-examined. Q. Do you reside at Weston-super-Mare? A. No; I was there then.
ROBERT PACKMAN (City policeman, 133). I was called in, and searched the prisoner's desk and lodging—I found a key there—on going to the office a desk or drawer was pointed out to me—the key I found in the prisoner's box would open that drawer, but the drawer was unlocked—I did not find this letter; it had been found previously.
(William Wilson, secretary to the Melbourne and Colonial House Investment Company, gave the prisoner a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 27.— Judgment Respited.
269. JOSEPH ROWLAND , burglary in the dwelling house of Samuel Roberts, and stealing therein 7 lbs. weight of pork, and other goods, value 2l., his property; and 24 centre bits, and other goods, the property of Samuel Roberts, the younger; and 54 pieces of China, and other goods, 3l.; the goods of Ann Richardson.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES LOCKTON . I am an inspector of police. On the morning of Sunday, 21st Jan., I received information respecting Mr. Roberts's farm at Southall, in the precinct of Norwood, in Middlesex—it is called Waxlow Farm—I went there with Sergeant Mansell, and found one window had been broken clean out—the cellar flap had been forced up—that cellar communicates with the whole body of the house—the wine cellar door had been forced open, as it appeared, by a crow bar—the hinges were broken off—the lock had been broken off the door of the kitchen and the door was open—I ascertained the nature of the property which had been removed—there were some slight footmarks in the snow leading from the house towards the canal—it was then about 12 o'clock—in consequence of some other informaration, I gave directions to Neave and Mansell to search a boat on the Grand Junction Canal.
JOHN MANSELL (police sergeant, T 1). On Sunday, 21st Jan., I received directions from the last witness, and I went to Paddington with Neave—we arrived at Paddington about 5 o'clock—I think there were about a dozen boats lying in the canal—we went on board a boat called the Highgate—the prisoner and three other men were sitting in the cabin—I asked them whose boat it was—a man of the name of Pope, who ran away, said it was Mr. Tilsley's—I told them I wanted to search the boat, in consequence of a robbery that had taken place during the night near Southall (I was in uniform)—Pope said he knew nothing about it, and he pointed to the prisoner,
and said, "That is the captain"—I do not remember that the prisoner said anything—Pope came out of the cabin and made towards shore—he was going across the other vessels—I told him to stop, and not to run away—he continued going across, and got away—I had not searched the boat at that time—I did afterwards, and found in it 12 planes, 24 centre bits, 1 pair of plyers, 1 chisel, 1 screwdriver, 1 mallet, 3 saws, 1 hammer, 3 copper tea kettles, 1 lantern, 5 brushes, 2 meat covers, 12 bottles of wine, 1 Bible, 1 leg of pork, 1 goose, 1 piece of salt beef, 1 loaf, 1 piece of cheese, 5 half-pounds of butter, 54 pieces of China, 1 candlestick, 3 sheets, 9 table cloths, 36 pieces of linen towels, 2 pillow cases, 7 satin chair covers, 1 roll of satin, 1 dressing gown, 7 cotton chair covers, 7 odd pieces of print, 7 drinking glasses and tumblers, and 4 other glasses—they were all in the cabin—the linen was in a drawer under the bed, the greater portion of it—I think there were some strewed about—I am not aware that any of the articles I first mentioned are used in housebreaking.
WILLIAM MORRIS NEAVE (policeman, T 94). I have known the prisoner about two years and a half—he was potboy at Mr. Tilsley's beer shop, at Heston, near Norwood, which is rather over two miles from Waxlow Park—he afterwards worked in Mr. Tilsley's brick field—the last two months he was boating in the Highgate, one of Mr. Tilsley's boats—Mr. Tilsley, of Heston, who keeps the beer shop, has a brother who is a brick maker—on 21st Jan., I went with the last witness to Paddington—I went on board the Highgate—I found the prisoner, and Henry Pope, and two others—one was named Collins—I do not know the name of the other—Collins went with the prisoner; he belonged to the boat—Pope went off, and while he was pursued, the other two escaped—the prisoner was the last who came out of the cabin—I was standing near the stern of the boat—I apprehended the prisoner; the other two were too quick for me to stop them—when I seized the prisoner he was not out of the boat; he had got out of the cabin, and seemed as if he was going to turn himself round to get out—the Highgate and most of the boats were loaded with bricks—I looked in the boat, and saw some property—I asked the prisoner where it came from; he said he did not know—I looked in the cabin, and saw the parts of three copper tea kettles broken in pieces—I said to the prisoner, "What have you done with the goose?"—he said, "You can look in there," pointing to the stern end of the boat—I asked him for the key, and he gave it me—Mansell had not returned at that time—I unlocked the place with the key, and found a dead goose, a leg of pork, some beef, some butter, a lump of cheese, and a half quartern loaf—I set those things upon the cabin, and when the sergeant came back he searched the boat—he found in my presence the things he has mentioned—after we had packed up the things, we took the prisoner to the station and locked him up—Waxlow farm is from three quarters of a mile to a mile from the Canal—the boats stop at Northall Bridge—it is not a stopping station—there is a public house where they can put their horses up.
Gross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You have known the prisoner about two years and a half, and knew him to be captain of this boat? A. Yes—the owner of the boat is Mr. Tilsley—when I went with Mansell to the boat, the men were all in the cabin—Mansell asked whose boat it was—the other three men ran away as soon as they could get out—they all came out of the cabin, one at a time—Pope was the first that went away—the other two went out, and then the prisoner was coming—I laid my hand on his shoulder, and stopped him—I said, "You must stop with me"
—he said, "I know I am the captain of the boat, and I must take the brunt of it"—that was after Mansfield had stated what he came about—he did not say, "We suspect the stolen property is in this boat"—he said, "We must search your boat"—it was after that that the prisoner gave the key, and said, "Search the boat"—Henry Pope has been along with the prisoner on board that boat for about three weeks—another of the men has also been a labourer on board—the third man was quite a stranger—the prisoner did not say, when he gave me the key, "If there is any stolen property here, I know nothing about it"; but said they ran away like cowards, and he must take the brunt of it—I said I had heard a great deal about Pope, and he had run off like a coward to leave him—the prisoner said, "Yes, he is a coward; and he has left me to bear the brunt of it"—I opened the locker, or whatever it was, where I found the property, with the key the prisoner gave me—I do not know that there was a duplicate key to that locker—I never heard there was—the prisoner did not tell me there was another key, and one of the men had run away with it—he was feeling for the key about half a minute, and he said, "I suppose they have taken it with them"; and then he said, "Oh, no; here it is"—the chest, or whatever it may be called, was locked, and I unlocked it with the key—I am sure it was locked; I saw the padlock hanging on it—after I found the property, I think the prisoner did make some remark that he did not know how it came there—he did make the remark in the boat—he did not say it must have been put there while he was absent, or that it was put in without his knowledge.
JAMES REYNOLDS . I work for Mr. Tilsley, at Northyde; he is a beer shop keeper. I know the prisoner—Mr. Tilsley keeps the beer shop where the boats stop—Henry Pope and Collins worked for him on board the Highgate—I did not work on board that boat; I worked on board the Cadley—that boat followed the Highgate from Bull-bridge to Yealding, which is just on the other side of Wreford-green—Yeading is nearer to London than Northyde—we came from Bull-bridge and stopped at Yeading, and tied up; and we went to bed, and to sleep—the Highgate was there all night—we left about 5 o'clock on the following morning—the Highgate left just before us.
COURT. Q. Was the prisoner on board the Highgate, at Bull's Bridge? A. Yes; and when we arrived at Yeading, we tied the boats up—I did not see the prisoner on board the Highgate the next morning before it got daylight—the Highgate was about twenty yards before us—I followed him soon after—I saw the prisoner when I got to Paddington, he was stopped on his own boat—he took the horse to the stable, and he came on the boat with a nose tin after he had taken the horse away—Yeading is about three quarters of a mile from the prosecutor's house—the canal runs within 200 yards of the back of the house—they must have passed the house to have got to Yeading, where they stopped.
COURT. Q. What time did you get to Yeading? A. It was just dark, I do not know the time; we stopped for the ice about 200 yards before we got to Yeading; it was then dusk, and the Grand Junction horses pulled us to Yeading.
MARY WOODS . I am the daughter of Mr. Samuel Roberts, who lives at Waxlow farm; I reside there, it is in the precinct of Norwood, in the parish of Hayes. I remember Saturday night, 20th Jan.; T went to bed shortly after 10 o'clock; I saw that the house was fastened; I was the last person up, the larder window was closed, the cellar flap was down and fastened; I came down about half past 7 o'clock in the morning, the house
had been broken into; I missed a goose, a leg of pork, some beef and all the things that I have heard mentioned to-day—these are the articles; I know them to be my father's.
SAMUEL ROBERTS , Jun. I am the son of Mr. Samuel Roberts, the keeper of this farm. These tools are mine; they were left in the tool chest at my father', and the chest was locked—I saw it on the morning of 24th Jan.; the lock had been forced, and the tools gone—I have been a cabinet maker.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, January 31st, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUMPHREY; Mr. Ald. WIRE; Mr. COMMON
SERJEANT, and RUSSELL GUBNEY, Esq.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Seventh Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 51.— Confined Nine Months.
271. HENRY HUMPHERY STEPHENSON , stealing 2184 gloves, value 150l.; 91 pieces of paper, value 2d.; and 1 box and 1 card, value 2s., the property of William James Chaplin and another, having been before convicted: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY .** Aged 41.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
EDWARD WALDEN . I am a boot maker of West Smithfield. On Friday, 12th Jan., the prisoners came and looked in at the window—Taggell then came in, and Watkins followed him directly—Taggell said that he wanted a pair of boots new fronted, which were at home, and he would fetch them in half an hour, but that they wanted to go and have a drop of ale together first—I began measuring him—he was very particular about his bunnions, to keep my attention off—I saw some boots safe in the shop while I was measuring him—Watkins Went out, and I missed them—Taggell wanted me to run after him, but I said "No," I should keep him—I gave him into custody, and then went to a public house at the corner of Glass House-yard—I waited there three quarters of an hour; Watkins came in, and I gave him into custody.
Taggell. We might have been looking in at the window, and yet not have been together. Witness. There was nobody else there who could have taken the boots, and I afterwards missed a second pair.
JOHN BAKER (City-policeman, 225). Taggell was given into my custody by the last witness—he said that he had got a pair of boot legs at home which he wanted new footed, and told me where he lived; I went there, but found no boots—he said that he had been drinking with the other prisoner, and wanted us to go to take him—we went there, and the
landlord told us something—I waited there with the prosecutor, and about a quarter past 8 o'clock Watkins came in, and was identified by Walden—he tried to get away, and said he did not know anything of it.
Taggell's Defence. I said that the boots were at home, but I did not say at my wife's, they were at my mother's; I said that I had been drinking, but not with this man.
(Watkins was further charged with having been before convicted.)
JOHN MOSS. I produce a certificate—(Read: Central Criminal Court. John Harding, convicted June, 1851,of stealing a coat, having been before convicted: Transported for seven years")—Watkins is the person.
Watkins. I plead guilty to that.
(The officer, Moss, stated that there were fifty similar cases in which Watkins had gone into shops to be measured, while another person waited, and that he had been also sentenced to transportation in 1842, and had been seven times in Bridewell for felony. Mr. Jonas, of Newgate, stated, that Taggell had been convicted in April last, and sentenced to six months' imprisonment.)
TAGGELL. Aged 24.— Confined Twelve Months.
WATKINS. Aged 47.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
JONATHAN WARREN . I am a blacking manufacturer of Hackney Road—the prisoner was in my service in Dec. last as commission agent—I gave him this written order (produced) for one quire of emery cloth—the one quire has been altered to four quires, but he only brought me one.
HENRY GADSDEN . I am an oilman of Great Prescott-street—on the morning of 12th Dec, the prisoner brought me this paper in the state in which it is now, and I delivered to him four quires of emery cloth, two boxes of salt, and two boxes of black lead—I did not observe that it had been altered, until my account was sent in to Mr. Warren, when he drew my attention to it—(Order read: "December, 1854. Mr. Gadsden. Please let bearer have 4 quires of emery cloth, 2 boxes of salt, and 7 lbs. of black lead. Yours respectfully, Warren.")
Prisoner's Defence. I have worked for Mr. Warren for the last two years, for 1s. a day, and should have pleaded guilty if nothing else but the emery cloth had been charged against me; I wanted a few shillings, and intended to pay Mr. Warren back again.
GUILTY . Aged 54.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Three Months.
274. SIMON ABRAHAMS , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Charles Johnson, at Christ Church, Middlesex, and stealing therein 1 decanter, 20 packets of tobacco, and 60 cigars, value 11s. 6d. and 5s. in money; his property.
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL FULLER (policeman, H 153). On the morning of 13th Jan., about half past 1 o'clock, I was on duty in Crispin-street, Spitalfields, and saw the prisoner by Mr. Johnson's, the Paul's Head public house, No. 1, Crispin-street—it is at the corner of White's-row and Crispin-street—he came out of White's-row, went straight across the road, and up Artillery-passage, which is opposite—Fryingpan-alley is not twenty yards from Mr. Johnson's door—I tried Mr. Johnson's street door when I saw the prisoner, and found it safe—afterwards, about 2 o'clock, I saw the prisoner walk from
the step of Mr. Johnson's door quite sharp; I was within ten yards of him; he walked up Bell-lane—I tried the door, it went open, and I then went after the prisoner, took hold of him about thirty yards from the door and told him that I wanted him to come with me—he asked me what for—I told him to come back with me, and I would show him—I took him to Mr. Johnson's door, and asked him if he knew anything of that; he made no answer—I told him I had seen him step from that step; he replied that he came from Fryingpan-alley (he was coming in that direction)—I sprang my rattle, another constable came; we searched the prisoner, but found nothing.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER. Q. Were there other people about? A. I only saw the prisoner—I saw no one about, between the first occasion and the second, but that was the first time I had been round there again; it takes me about twenty minutes to go round my beat—the door of the Paul's Head public house is not straight with Crispin-street; it is on a slant the other way—if I were in Crispin-street, I should not see a person that came down the street till they got to the corner.
(The COURT considered that as this was the only evidence to connect the prisoner with the burglary, it was too slight to convict him, and that, therefore, the evidence to prove the burglary need not be proceeded with.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. LILLET conducted the Prosecution.
JULIEN GENDROY (through an interpreter). I am an artist, and occupy a shop and two parlours in the house of Edward M'Dermott, of No. 16, Rathbone-place; he lives in the house, and sleeps there—I believe the parish is called Middlesex—on the morning of 15th Jan., I was asleep in the back parlour; I heard a noise about 1 o'clock, and got out of bed and lighted a candle—I went out of the room, but saw no one—I then returned to bed, and about an hour afterwards I heard a noise again—I went and listened, and saw the prisoner Jones coming downstairs from the first floor, passing me—I saw a light, which I suppose came from the first floor—Jones had no light—I ran into the front parlour, and came out again; Jones passed me, and went out at the street door—I did not hear any sound of his opening it, and could not say whether it was open or not—I followed him five or six yards into the street; I was undressed—I cried, "Police!" and "Thief!"—I generally go in through the shop—there are other lodgers in the house, each of whom has a latch key.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What time did you go to bed? A. At 12 o'clock—I do not know how many lodgers there are, or whether they had all come in that night—some of them may have come in after I went to bed—I know that the door was shut when I went to bed—I had no light in my hand at 2 o'clock, nor was there any light in my room.
MR. LILLET. Q. Then how were you able to see the prisoner when he came down stairs? A. I lighted him down with a candle, which was in my right hand; I had no light in my room, but I saw the reflection of a light into my room.
COURT. Q. At the time Jones came down stairs, had he a light in his hand? A. Yes; as soon as I saw the reflection of the light coming into my room, I went up, and I lighted a candle myself—what I said just now
was, that when I saw the reflection of a light, I had no candle, nor was there one in my room then, because I was in bed.
WILLIAM FASSNIDGE (policeman, C 73). About 2 o'clock in the morning of 15th Jan., I was on duty in Oxford-street, and heard a cry of "Police!" proceeding from Rathbone-place—I saw the last witness on the door step in his shirt, with a lighted candle in his hand—I saw the two prisoners running away towards Oxford-street; they turned down different streets—I sprang my rattle, Tratt came up, and I told him to follow Jones; he did so, and I followed Kent, and overtook him in Soho-square—I afterwards saw Jones in custody, and took this rope (produced) from his pocket—I told them that they were the two men who were wanted down Rathbone-place; they both denied having been there—I examined the door of the house, it opens with a common latch key—the house is in the parish of Marylebone.
Cross-examined. Q. When were you told that it was in the parish of Marylebone? A. I am not sure that it is—I know that it is not in St. Giles's, but do not know that it is in Marylebone—I was about 150 yards from the house, when I first saw Jones running along Rathbone-place—it was in Rathbone-place that I had the conversation with him—I was not present when Tratt took him—he told me afterwards that he was only running to keep himself warm, and was going home.
WILLIAM FLOOKS (policeman, C 98). On 15th Jan., about 5 minutes to 2 o'clock in the morning I was at the corner of Sutton-street, and heard a rattle springing—I saw the prisoner Kent running by the enclosure of the square—I took him into custody, and asked him why he was running—he said that he was not running, for he came in that direction, pointing to Greek-street—I had seen him running towards Greek-street, at the top of his speed, in a direction from Rathbone-place, and he was quite out of breath—Charles-street is directly opposite—about twenty minutes afterwards I went to the enclosure of Soho-square, and found a knife within five yards of where I apprehended him, lying on the footway—I found a lucifer match in his right hand waistcoat pocket, which corresponded with some other lucifer matches which were shown to me by the inspector—Rathbone-place is in the parish of Marylebone.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know that? A. To the best of my belief; I do not pledge myself to the fact.
Kent. Q. How do you know the direction I came in? A. Because I was standing close to the enclosure, and when you passed I stooped down and saw you running swiftly; but it being dark you did not see me—there was no other person in the square, and had not been for some time before.
SAMUEL TRATT (policeman, E 124). On 15th Jan., about 2 o'clock in the morning, I was on duty in Oxford-street, and I saw the two prisoners run out of Rathbone-place into Oxford-street—I ran after Jones, who turned down Oxford-street towards Tottenham-court-road—I stopped him at the corner of Crown-street—he said, "It is not me you want; I am only running to warm my hands."
WILLIAM FAUBERT (policeman, E 180). On 15th Jan., about 2 o'clock in the morning, I went to Crown-street and Oxford-street, to make a search—I saw Tratt take Jones; and about five or six yards from that spot, I found a wax taper and some lucifer matches—I gave them to the inspector, and saw him show them to the prisoners—the matches are the same sort as that found on Kent—Rathbone-place is in the parish of Marylebone.
Cross-examined. Q. The matches are as like as three or four peas out of
the same pod, I suppose? A. Yes—I will not pledge my path that Rathbone-place is in the parish of Marylebone; but to the best of my belief it is.
MR. SLEIGH submitted, that it was an essential ingredient in burglary, that the parish should be proved as stated in the indictment, and with the same certainty as all the other facts; and that, therefore, the prisoners must be acquitted.
MR. LILLET contended that there was sufficient prima facie proof that it was St. Marylebone, unless that could be rebutted, three witnesses having sworn to the fact, to the best of their belief; and that, if it was not sufficient, there was a Juryman in Court who could prove the fact.
MR. SLEIGH objecting to MR. LILLEY calling another witness after closing his case, the COURT called.
EDWARD EVANS . I live at No. 15, Rathbone-place, next door to the house in question. My house is in St. Marylebone parish, but I do not know in what parish No. 16 is—part of Rathbone-place is in St. Pancras, and part in St. Marylebone; but I do not know where the division is, whether it lies between my house and the next, or in any other part of the place.
(The COURT considered that the question must go to the Jury.)
(MR. SLEIGH further submitted, that it was necessary to prove that the house was broken into or broken out of, between the statutable hours, but that there was no proof at what time the house was safe, or whether the last person who was up, had locked the door; and that it was possible the door might have been left open by one of the lodgers, after coming in with a latch key.
The COURT (considered that the case must go to the Jury.)
Kent's Defence. I was apprehended 300 yards from the prosecutor's house; the policeman could not see whether I came down Rathbone-place, or down Oxford-street; other persons were walking in the street, but because I was running I was apprehended; nothing was found on me but one match.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. HOREY conducted the Prosecution.
CAROLINE MARTIN . I am the prisoner's wife; we were married about sixteen months ago. I have one child—the prisoner is a carpenter—we lived at No. 6 1/2, Twigg-folly, Bethnal-green—he left me about a fortnight previous to Jan. 4, and I did not know where he was—on Thursday nighty 4th Jan., I went to the Standard Theatre, with Matilda Curnell; and on our way home we called at the King John public house, in Holywell-lane—I saw the prisoner there, standing at the bar—I did not speak to him, or he to me—after taking some ale, I left with my friend; and when I had got about twenty yards, I heard steps behind me—I was suckling my child—I turned round, and saw my husband running after me—I tried to get away from him—he overtook me, and said, "You b—cow! I will do for you now"—I felt my left arm very hot, put my hand to my arm, and found my hand full of blood—I saw the blade of a knife in the prisoner's right hand—he ran away across the road—I became very faint, and my baby fell down on the ground—I screamed out, and a policeman came—I never saw a knife like this (produced) in my husband's possession before.
Prisoner. Q. Where were you lodging? A. I was obliged to lodge at this young woman's for two nights—I do not know whether the house is a brothel—I was not living there with a man—I went to the Standard Theatre about half past 9 o'clock—I was not at a dancing room that evening,
nor were we dancing at the Neat's Tongue public house—I was going towards the Curtain-road to turn round into Shoreditch to go home—there was not a man with me—you have stabbed me twice before—I can prove one time by the London Hospital, the other time I took no notice of—I have been living with my father and mother, No. 61/2, Sidney-street, but not for long—I have sold some of the things from your house—I did it to support myself and my baby—the reason I have been knocked about is because I would not go prostituting or thieving for you—you were at costermongering for a little while just before you left me; it was through my persuasion—you did not tell me you would go away from me if I persisted in shoplifting—it was because I would not go to prostitution for you with my baby, and because I would not go out thieving for you.
MR. HORRY. Q. Are the lodgings that you are living at now the lodgings you lived at with your husband? A. Yes.
MATILDA CURNELL . I am single, and live at No. 5, Spencer-street, Shoreditch. I was with the last witness at the Standard theatre—we afterwards went to the King John public house, and saw the prisoner there—we left, and had got about twenty yards, when Mrs. Martin turned round, and then ran on the other side of the way to get out of the way of the prisoner, who was running after her—he said, "You b——y cow!"and made a strike at her with his right hand, but I did not see anything in it—she screamed out "Murder!" and "Police!"—I screamed out also, and the prisoner ran across the road, and was afterwards brought back by a policeman—the child fell, and I picked it up—the prisoner said, "Carry, did I do it?"—she said, "Yes; you are my husband; you did it."
Prisoner. Q. Was there a man with you at the King John? A. There was not—we never went into any dancing room—it is eighteen months since I had seen your wife, that was because I had been at work—I have not had twelve months in prison, but you have had eighteen months—I have never been in trouble—I took your wife to my place because you had said that you would kick her b——y brains out—I asked you if you had no respect for your child, and you said no, it was no child of yours; it was a bastard—I took her to Mrs. Bean's; that is not my mothers house—your wife slept there two nights—I shall not satisfy you whether I have ever been in trouble—I will satisfy any one else, but not you.
JAMES BONE (policeman, G 34). I was on duty in Chapel-street, about a quarter to 1 o'clock, and heard a cry of "Murder!"—I went to the corner of Holywell-lane, and saw Mrs. Martin supported by the last witness, and bleeding from the left arm—in consequence of what she said I ran across the road after the prisoner—I saw him move his left hand as though he threw something away—I took him to where the females were—he said to his wife, "Was it me, Carry, that did it?"—she said, "Yes"—I sprang my rattle for assistance, and took him to the station—I afterwards went to the spot where I had seen him move his hand, and found this knife, closed as it is now—here is a stain of blood on the small blade—this (produced) is a piece of the prosecutrix's frock—here is a cut through it, and it is all over blood.
Prisoner. Q. When you came over to me did not I say that I was going over to my father's? A. You said, "It was not me that did it; I am going home"—you were going the right road to Tabernacle-square—you told me at the time that there was a man with the females at the King John, but I saw no man with them—I was about 300 yards off when I heard the cry of "Murder!"—there is no lamp at the corner of the turning
on either side—I saw nobody else pass—several gentlemen collected round, but I saw nobody else run away.
JOHN BUBBERS MATHER . I am a surgeon, of No. 63, Bunhillrow. The prosecutrix was brought to my surgery on the morning of the 5th, her wound having been dressed at the station house—I took the dressings off, and found a punctured wound in the back part of the upper arm, two inches deep—the arm was highly inflamed—the large blade of this knife might have produced the wound; it was a dangerous wound—all punctured wounds are of a most serious description—she has been very bad, and has been since under my care.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follow;)—"I have no wish to say anything; I was excited with drink, and did not know what I was doing at the time."
COURT to JAMES BONE. Q. Did you observe in what state the prisoner was? A. I should say that he was sober, he appeared so to me.
Prisoner's Defence. I can get evidence to prove that the witness Curnell has twice been tried at this court, and had six, months each time; she has not been out more than two months, for stealing some gold rings, with two other persons, one of whom got fifteen years; my wife has been committed from Gravesend to Maidstone for trial, by Michael Haydon, the detective policeman; they are both swearing false, and if it can be proved that they are well known characters, why should not my word be taken, as well as theirs; my wife has been in trouble several times; they are both convicted thieves; my wife would persist in shop lifting, and we began to live very uncomfortably together; I told her that if she persisted in doing it, I would leave her; Mr. Jones, the publican, can prove that I kept away from her, and did not wish to see her, and she used to come to me every night, and blackguard me with words not fit for any male or female to hear; she has sold all my home since I have been here, and has been seen talking and drinking with that man who entered the King John with her; she says that the child does not belong to me, but to that man, and she wants to get me out of the country, having told people that she likes him better than me; I can prove what I am now saying, word for word, if I am allowed time.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, February 1st, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald.
FARNCOMB; Mr. Ald. WIKE; Mr. Ald. CUBTTT; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Justice Wightman and the Fourth Jury.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH SYKES . I am single, and reside at No. 9, Holborn-buildings; I am a book folder by trade. I knew Mary Kelly—she lived in Portpool-lane, Gray's Inn-lane—she was about twenty-three years of age—I do not know how she got her living—on Saturday night, 12th Jan., about 11
o'clock, I saw her at the corner of Gray's Inn-lane, Holborn—she was then sober, and in right good health—I did not see her again till I saw her dead, at 10 o'clock, on Sunday morning—whilst I was with her I did not see any person strike her or injure her—I left her at a quarter past 11 o'clock, at the corner of Gray's Inn-lane.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. How long were you in her company that evening? A. About a quarter of an hour—there was not a public house at the corner where we were standing—I was not in any public house with her.
EDWARD HICKS (policeman, G 40.) I saw the deceased in the street at half past 11 o'clock—she was in Gray's Inn-lane, crying—she was alone, on the pavement—I asked her what was the matter with her—the prisoner was not by at that time—I went on my beat—I saw her again, about 5 or 10 minutes past 12 o'clock, in Fox's-court, in company with two other females—one was holding her up—that woman said she knew her, and would see her home—she was taken by that woman and some men to Tyndal's-buildings—about twenty minutes afterwards I was fetched to her again—I then found her lying on the pavement in Tyndal's-court, quite insensible, and apparently dead—with the assistance of another constable, I took her to the hospital—I never saw her move hand or foot, and could not find that she breathed in the least—when I saw her at half past 11 o'clock she complained that some man had hit her.
Cross-examined. Q. Did she appear to have been drinking when you saw her at 5 minutes past 12 o'clock? A. I cannot say; I did not see her drink anything—they told me they thought she was in a drunken fit—I have no doubt she had been drinking; I am sure she had, because she had been along with different parties all the evening—she was perfectly sober at half past 11 o'clock—she was an unfortunate woman—one of the women is here that I saw with her, and the other I have known a good many years—I cannot say who the men were that took her away—I did not follow them close enough to observe whether they took her into the house.
MART ANN WALKER . I am thirteen years old, and live with my father, who keeps a coal shed, at No. 14, Brook-street, Holborn. On Saturday night, 12th Jan., at 12 o'clock, I saw the prisoner kick a young woman at Fox-court—I afterwards saw that same woman dead—I have no doubt it was the same—the prisoner kicked her in the stomach, and she fell back—it was a hard kick—there were two young women there—they picked her up—she fell down again—I did not hear her say anything to the prisoner—I heard him say to her, "Now then," when he kicked her—he appeared to be sober, and so did she—I saw no other person touch her, or use any violence to her.
Cross-examined. Q. How long were you there? A. About ten minutes—they were standing there all the time—it was close to a public house—I had seen the young woman before, but did not know her name, or where she lived—I was taken to see the body on the Friday at the hospital—I knew the prisoner before by sight—there were a great number of persons there when this occurred, more than a dozen, a great crowd—my father took me to the hospital—I was not so sure then that it was the woman as I am now—I knew her clothes—they asked me what sort of clothes they were—I saw the clothes where the body was lying, but apart from the body—I knew her not so much by the body as by the clothes.
MR. PLATT. Q. Did they ask you what kind of clothes she wore before you saw them? A. Yes—I gave a description of the clothes—that description
agreed with the clothes which were lying by the side of her—it was the same woman.
COURT. Q. You say that you saw her standing close to a public house? A. Yes—two women were with her—the man who kicked her was standing close to her at the public house door—they were both standing there when I first saw them—I did not hear anything said before he kicked her, except "Now then."
JOHANNA COATLEY . I am single, and live at No. 9, Bell-court, Gray's Inn-lane. On Saturday night, 13th Jan., I met the deceased, Mary Kelly, at half past 11 o'clock, and I was in her company till ten minutes past 12—it was at the corner of Fox-court; we were in a public house, and I was ten minutes with her outside, when we came out—we came out of the public house at 12 o'clock—there were other persons besides us came out; two men and a woman—I do not know who the two men were—as we came out of the public house the prisoner was outside, and directly we came out I saw him come up, and hit her on the side—I did not hear him speak before he struck her, nor did I hear her say anything—he had not been in the public house while we were there—it was with his fist that he struck her; he made a punch at her—it was a hard blow—she fell against the door place—she did not speak for about ten minutes, and then she said, "Oh, my God! I am dead"—I left her and went away; I left her standing at the end of the court—she was not leaning against anything, but standing the same as I am now—I left her with a young woman named Donovan—I did not see her again alive—she appeared to be well before she received this blow from the prisoner—she was sober, she had not received any violence from any one whilst she was with me, before the prisoner struck her.
Cross-examined. Q. You were only in her company from half part 11 till 12 o'clock. A. That was all—we had been in the public house drinking, we had a pot of ale and half a pint of gin—I had not been drinking anything before that, I do not know whether she had—I do not know who the two men were that were with us, I had seen them before; neither of them are here that I know of—there was not a considerable number of persons there, nor collected at the door; we came out of a private box—I remained with her till 10 minutes past 12 o'clock—I did not see the policeman come up—the two men did not remain with her till I left, they went away—when I left her she was talking to Donovan.
COURT. Q. Among how many of you was the pint of ale and half a pint of gin? A. Five of us—I knew the prisoner before.
JULIA CONNOR . I am the wife of Patrick Connor, of Portpool-lane. I knew the deceased, Mary Kelly—I went out with her on Saturday night, at 9 o'clock, and stopped with her till 11 o'clock—she was then well as far as I knew—she received no violence from any person during that time.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you in any public house from 9 till 11 o'clock? A. I was in one public house with her when we went out at 9 o'clock; that was across Holborn—we had one half quartern of rum there—I was not in any other—we drank that between us.
FREDEEICK JAMES GANT . I am house surgeon at the hospital in Gray's Inn-lane. On Sunday morning, 14th Jan., a little after 1 o'clock, the deceased was brought there dead—I afterwards made a post mortem examination,
assisted by Mr. Savory—I examined the cavities of the body, the head, the thorax, and the abdomen, and found all the organs healthy, but bloodless—in the cavity of the abdomen, extending from the left side downwards to the front, and also into the pelvis, I found a large clot of blood; the portion that I removed weighed about eighteen ounces, but that would not represent the whole; the fluid portion was not included in that—I found a laceration of one of the veins of the spleen, a branch of the splenic vein—I believe the greater portion of the blood, which was evidently venous, came from the splenic vein; but I would not undertake to say that a portion might not have come from some other vessel or vessels, which are very small—considering that all the organs were perfectly healthy, I am not disposed to say that the hemorrhage came from any diseased vessel or organ, but having heard that a blow and kick both had been received, and that they corresponded with the situation of the hemorrhage, and with the lacerated vessel, I am induced to believe that the hemorrhage which produced the death, was the result both of the blow and kick—a blow and kick, in such a position, might have produced that injury—I have no doubt that death was caused by that hemorrhage, and I believe that the hemorrhage was caused by violence, as far as the evidence goes—my reason for saying so is because the organs were perfectly healthy—I saw nothing which would naturally, and without some violence, cause such appearances.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you examine the external surface of the body? A. I did, corresponding with the internal hemorrhage—I did not observe there any marks of violence—that is not essential, although it is often found—a vessel may be ruptured from other causes than external violence—I do not think that drinking would have anything to do with the rupture of the vessel; but if she fell on the spot, where the clot was found, I should say that might account for it—a person in the habit of drinking is not more subject to injury from violence than a person of sober habits; there is no connexion whatever between the two—the rupture of that vessel would not be caused by great excitement—vessels of the brain may give way in those who have been accustomed to drink hard, and from excitement, but not a vessel in this situation—we scarcely ever find those vessels diseased so as to produce hemorrhage—it does not always follow that the internal injury is immediately near or under the external violence—it may sometimes be in the opposite direction—I do not think that violence on the right side, in this case; could have been the cause of the rupture of the vessel on the left—a blow on one side of the head might produce its apparent effect on the opposite, but I should say not on the body—I do not see any physical impossibility to it—there was nothing on the external surface to indicate where the blow had been inflicted.
COURT. Q. Suppose a blow and kick to have been given as described by the witnesses, should you expect that it would necessarily leave some marks of violence on the outside? A. Not necessarily; but in a very large majority of cases it is so.
(Timothy Crowley, a schoolmaster, deposed to the prisoner's good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Seven Years' Penal Servitude.
278. JOHN RISLEY was indicted (together with WILLIAM RISLEY) for feloniously accusing William Stanley of an infamous crime, with intent to extort money; also, for threatening to accuse John Stanley with a like intent
(Upon both these charges MR. CLARKSON offered no evidence against John Risky, and upon the application of MR. BALLANTINE the case of William Risley was postponed until the next Session.)
JOHN RISLEY— NOT GUILTY .
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
MARTHA HUMPHREY . I formerly lived at No. 7, Weymouth-street, Hackney-road. The prisoner rented the house—it only contained two rooms—the furniture in it was his own—he is the father of the deceased child, Frederick Bull; the mother died in Aug. last, leaving the deceased infant and another child behind; the other child is five years old—I am no relation to the prisoner, or his wife—I was living in the house at the time of his wife's death, and after her death I was placed by the prisoner in charge of the two children—I have not been paid any wages, since the mother's death—I took care of the children for sixteen months before her death—I was not with them at the time this child was born, it was two months old then—it was suckled by the mother until a fortnight before her death—it was not a healthy child, it was a thin weakly sort of child—after the mother's death, I had the entire care of both the children; the other was a girl—the prisoner continued to live in the house, after his wife's death—he used to keep the house himself, on Saturdays—he used to go out to work at 9 o'clock in the morning, and come home between 11 and 12 o'clock at night—before he went out in the morning he used to give me 6d., to get the bread and the butter with—he gave me 6d. every morning, and 3d. besides, sometimes it was only 2d.—he always left me 6d., and sometimes 2d. or 3d. besides—he sometimes had breakfast at home, that was provided out of the money he gave me—he used not to breakfast every morning, not above three times in a week—I generally provided potatoes for myself and the children with the money he left me, and half a pint of milk for the child—I had as much as I wanted to eat of bread and butter—I had not after that sufficient left to provide for the two children—I generally provided half a pint of milk for this child, and some rice for all our dinners—I have told the prisoner that I wanted something for the child, and I have got it a powder several times—I have told him that the child would like a bit of meat—I thought it was necessary for the health and support of the child that it should have some meat, but I could not get it out of 3d.—I think I have told him that two or three times—I told him so, because I thought the child was very weak—it used to drink the milk I gave it, it could have drunk more—I have told the prisoner so—he said he used to give me all the money he could—I made those complaints to him up to a short time before the child's death—his answer generally was, that he gave me as much money as he could—a few days before the child's death, the furniture was seized—for a week or two previous to its death it could not eat bread, it continued to drink the milk—it had previously been able to eat bread very heartily—I told the prisoner that the child could no longer eat bread, and he told me to take him to Doctor Baker—I did take him to Doctor Baker; no medical gentleman attended the child just before its death, only Mr. Baker; Mr. Baker did not attend him—it was rather more than a fortnight before his death that I took him to Mr. Baker—I did not take him to any doctor within the last fortnight—during the last fortnight, the child did not appear to be
affected with any malady or disease; he only seemed worse than usual in his appetite—he drank all the milk I offered to him; in my opinion, he could have drunk more—I have told the prisoner so during the last fortnight, and I have sometimes got some milk on credit, rather more than the half a pint—I do not recollect exactly what reply the prisoner made to me on those occasions—when the child died it was very thin, but it was always thin—it died on Saturday morning, about 9 o'clock—at 5 o'clock in the morning, before its death, it had convulsions, or something like it—I told the prisoner at 5 o'clock that I thought it was dying—he said, u You do not mean that, do you?"
COURT. Q. He appeared surprised? A. No, I do not think he did—the half pint of milk cost three farthings—it sometimes had a little arrowroot—I did not get that, it was in the place—sometimes it had eggs; I got them not out of the money that he had given me, but with a few halfpence that I used to earn at the needle—it was always a thin child; he was much thinner when he died—I only took him to Mr. Baker once; he gave him some medicine—I did not take him again before he died, because the money was to go for the medicine that I had first—Mr. Baker said so—I went to him to ask him if he would see the child, and he said he would have the money for the medicine first.
Prisoner. I used to provide everything in myself of a Saturday night; I used to bring in meat and things sufficient for the week; I used to have my dinner at home on Sunday, and leave the cold meat for the children and the girl, and have my dinner out; I had a hot joint every Sunday; the child was born in a consumption, and with a rupture; my wife died in a consumption; the other child that she had under her care was a strong, healthy child, and is living now; I never said that she was to give more to one than the other. Witness. He brought in meat on Saturday night—he used to keep house himself on Saturdays—the other child is alive and well—he did not tell me to treat one child differently from the other.
PETER LODWIG BURCHELL . I am a surgeon, and live near Kings-land-road. In Jan. I was requested to open the body of the deceased, and make a post mortem examination—I had never seen it during its life—I found it very much emaciated; I understood it was about a year and seven months old—there was no organic disease in any part of the body—the stomach was empty, the intestines also, and contracted—I could form no absolute opinion what the cause of death was without hearing evidence—I could detect no symptoms of disease whatever—on the left lung there was merely a small tubercle, which had not taken on any diseased action, and therefore was not in any way the cause of death—I have heard the evidence given to-day—I believe half a pint of milk was not sufficient to sustain it in life and health—if it had meat, arrow root and eggs in a continuous order, that would have been sufficient—I have examined the bodies of persons alleged to have died of starvation—I could not positively state what was the cause of the death of this child.
RICHARD WALLIS . I am a surgeon, in the neighbourhood of the Hackney-road. I was called in to examine the body of the deceased child, on 16th Jan—Mr. Burchell had previously made a post mortem examination—I examined the viscera with a view to ascertain, if possible, the cause of death—from the emaciated state of the body, and from the emptiness of the viscera, and there being no fatty matter in any of the tissues or organs of the body, I could come to no other probable conclusion than that it was in want, either in quantity or quality, of nutritious food—1 could detect no
symptoms of organic disease in any part, excepting at the apex of the left lung there was a tubercular deposit, but not developed into disease, and therefore, in my opinion, could be no cause of its death—it is, of course, possible that the child might have died from some natural cause, wholly irrespective of absolute want of food—I am not warranted in speaking positively—I should say the quantity of milk stated was not sufficient to sustain life for any duration; but having eggs, rice, arrow root, and meat occasionally, it is probable that might not be the decided cause of death.
Prisoner's Defence. My wife died about five months ago, leaving me with three children; my father is taking care of one of them; I got the witness to take care of the other two, the eldest and the youngest; the youngest died in a consumption; the doctor told me it was born in a consumption; that is Dr. Baker, who I had to attend to my wife; this has been a spite between me and my neighbours, because I owed the man of the chandler's shop opposite a little money for a few things that I had when I was out of work, about three months ago; he summoned me for 4s. 9d., at the same time my child was very bad; the money was to be paid on boxing day; I had not got it; I sent the young woman to ask him to wait till Saturday, but he put in the broker, and took away part of my goods for the money; the child died the next morning; I was to have the goods back by paying him 15s. on the Saturday, and the landlord took them and locked them up in his back yard; and when I offered him the money on the Saturday night, he would not give me my goods without he had a fortnight's rent; I said it was very hard, and I should not get the money till the following Saturday; we had a few words, and two days afterwards, he sent the same broker again, and seized the rest of my goods, taking away my bed and everything, leaving me with the young woman in the two rooms, with the corpse on a broken chair; that was all the furniture we had left; they went and told Mr. Maddox, the beadle, that I had neglected my children, and that one had died from want; I went to the beadle's place, and took him to Mr. Baker, who said it was his belief that the child died from consumption; the beadle said he should write to the Coroner on the subject, and then it was delayed a whole week without any notice being taken of it, and I was calling at the beadle's house every morning; the Inquest was on the following Saturday, and the very man that seized my things was on the Jury; they were all decided except that one man, and he said he would not have it settled in that way; I have been told since that I ought not to have had such a man on the Jury, but I did not know anything of it then, not having had such a thing happen to me before.
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 26.—Recommended to mercy.— confined Eighteen Months.
THIRD COURT, Thursday, February 1st, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. SALOMONS; Mr. Ald. WIRE; Mr. Ald. CUBITT; Mr. Ald. ROSE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Eighth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Four Months.
MR. W. J. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD GILLBY . I live at No. 41, Ludgate-hill, as assistant to Charles Richmond Pottinger, a photographic printer. He occupies the whole house, excepting one room and the shop, which is occupied by Mr. Raylis, a confectioner—the prisoner was in Mr. Raylis's service for about a week—on Saturday night, 2nd Dec, I had a porte monnaie, containing 2l. 18s. 8d.—there were two sovereigns, some silver, and 2d. in copper—I placed it in a bookcase, in a room on the third floor, in Mr. Pottinger's occupation, between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening—I went out, and returned about 11 o'clock the same evening, Saturday—on Monday morning I missed the purse and money—this is the purse (produced)—it is mine—the money was Mr. Pottinger's.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. This is an ordinary porte monnaie; are you quite certain that it is yours? A. Yes—I know it by its being so shabby, and by the inner catch being out of order, and there is a good deal of rust about it—I did not see it safe between the 2nd and the 4th—nobody, but two young ladies who live in the house, had access to the bookcase—they are the only persons living in the house besides me.
GEORGINA SAUNDERS . I am shopwoman to Mr. Raylis. The prisoner was in his employ for about a week—on 4th Dec. I sent him to the room on the third floor, in which the bookcase is, to fetch some things—he brought them, and was then cleaning the windows, but a few minutes afterwards I missed him, and he never came back—I expected him back—I had been in the room on the Sunday, but had not been to the bookcase.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know that the purse was there? A. No—the prisoner was errand boy—we had sent him on Saturday to Claudet and Houghton's for some glass shades, but the shop was closed, and he was too late—I did not send him again on the Monday, but I thought he might have gone there—I think this letter (produced) is in his writing.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Supposing he had got the glass shades on Monday, was it his duty to have brought them to you? A. Yes, but he never came back at all—we had told him to fetch them as he went home on the Saturday night—he did not sleep in the house.
RICHARD COOK . I am a blacksmith, of No. 19, Long-yard, Lamb's Conduit-street. I know the prisoner—on a Monday morning, about 5th Dec, he came to me at a coffee shop, in Dean-street, Holborn, and asked me if I would have a cup of tea—after that, he said, "I am going down to Uxbridge; have you any mind to come with me?" and I went—before we
got to the Great Western Railway station, we went into a stationer's shop, where he bought a purse, took a sovereign, two half sovereigns, and some silver out of his old purse, and put it into the new one—he then gave the old one to me—I cannot say whether this (produced) is it—we then went down to Uxbridge by railway, and went to the Prince Albert public house—we stayed there two or three hours—we lodged at a beer shop for three days—the prisoner paid for everything—he came back to London by the coach, and left me to walk—I had known him about six weeks—the prisoner afterwards came to me, and I got the purse for him; I had given it away—I saw the landlord's daughter at Uxbridge give the prisoner a purse.
Cross-examined. Q. Where do you work? A. At Mr. Blackmore's, Long-yard. I had never been to Uxbridge before—I went because he asked me—I was out of work, and had been so about three months—my father was keeping me—I am eighteen years old—my father lives in East-street, Red Lion-square—I was put into prison once on suspicion of stealing some things, because I should not appear against a prisoner at Guildhall, but I was discharged—the prisoner's father brought the charge—it was about a fortnight ago—I was taken up for a silver spoon and for a sheet—I was quite innocent of that—I had a spoon, which I gave to a friend of mine, and he would sell it—I do not know what I was charged with—I can write and read, and say the Lord's Prayer—I do not think I was charged with stealing the spoon—I do not know what I was charged with—it was my father's spoon—I suppose I was charged with stealing it, I do not know—it was at the Town-hall, at Uxbridge, while I was there—I had not been there before—a policeman charged me—it was not a spoon I had got at Uxbridge—my father's name was on it—I was dismissed by the Magistrate—there was nothing but the sheet and the spoon—I was never charged with highway robbery—I have never been locked up on any other charge—I did not know where the prisoner worked.
MR. PAYNE, Q. The case of the sheet was at Guildhall? A. Yes, and the spoon at Uxbridge—the prisoner was taken before the Magistrate with me, and was sentenced to one month—I was discharged.
HONOR CROSS . I live with my mother, who keeps a beer shop at Hillingdon, near Uxbridge. The prisoner came there in the early part of Dec., and Cook was with him—they came on a Monday morning, went away to dinner somewhere, and came back to sleep; they stopped about two days—the prisoner paid—during the time they were there, I noticed the prisoner's purse, and told him that it was a very pretty one—he said that if I would give him another one for it, I should have it—I gave him this steel one (produced) for it—his was a porte monnaie—he took two half sovereigns and some silver out of it, and put them into the purse which I gave him—I afterwards gave the porte monnaie which he gave me to a police sergeant.
THOMAS WILLIAM KEY . I am a stationer, of No. 18, Whitborne-place, Paddington, and sell purses. On 4th Dec. I sold a purse to the prisoner; Cook was with him—to the best of my recollection, this is the purse—it was paid for in gold, and he took the money out of hid old purse, put it into the one he had purchased of me, and gave the old purse to Cook—I did not notice the old purse—they wanted to look at some better purses, but I refused to show them, as I did not like their appearance.
SARAH TIMBRELL . I am in Mr. Key's employment. I recollect the prisoner coming; he bought a purse like this, and paid 1s. for it—Cook was with him—he put his money into the new purse, and gave the old one to Cook—the old one had steel round it.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you in Mr. Key's employment? A. I am his niece, and assist in the shop.
JAMES RATCLIFF (City policeman, 375). I received information, went to Long-yard Lamb's Conduit-street, and found Cook there—he gave me this purse; I ✗en went in search of the prisoner, and found that he was in custody, under sentence of one month—he came out of the House of Correction, Coldbath-fields on 6th Jan., and I took him into custody; he said that he knew nothing about it—I took him to the station, searched him, and found this steel purse and 7d. on him.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.
WILLIAM HENRY SCOTT . On 10th Jan., between 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning, a robbery was committed on my premises, the White Horse public house, Rupert-street, St. James's. I was knocked up by an officer about half past 4 o'clock, and the tap room window was broken open from the back; the parlour door had been broken open and closed again, and about 30l. or 40l. worth of property stolen, and some spirits—among the property stolen was this hydrometer (produced)—on that evening the prisoner came and said, "Have you been robbed?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "What have you lost?"—(I had seen him several times before as a customer)—I named to him the articles of jewellery and this hydrometer—he said, "I think I can get the hydrometer back for you"—I said, "Can you; how is that?"—he said, "I was at a house last night where they were talking about doing a drum over"—I understand that that is breaking into a house—1 said, "If you can get it back I will give you a sovereign"—he said, "Very well, I will go and see"—I expressed a wish to go with him, which he declined; he said it would not look well to see us both together, and told me to wait at a house which I followed him to, the Thirteen Cantons—he left me there, and walked in the direction of King-street—he came back, and said, "I can get it in half an hour"—he said that he would bring it to me at the corner of Lisle-street and Leicester-place, the Prince of Wales Hotel—I waited there, and he brought it to me—we walked back to my house, and I wished him to go down to the station, but he declined—I then returned to my house, and got Sergeant Barnes and a policeman on duty, and persuaded the prisoner to walk down to the station—he went with us, and told the inspector on duty that if he would let an officer go with him he would show us the man who gave it to him—on that I went with him and an officer to a public house in Hayes-court, kept by a man named Graham—the prisoner said that he would go in and see if they were there, and come and let us know—we waited outside very nearly an hour and a half; he came out between 9 and 10 o'clock, and the sergeant said, "Where are those parties? have you seen them?"—he said, "No. Did you see a short stout man, with a rough coat on and a cap, go out?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "That is one of them that gave it to me"—Godfrey said, "Why did not you come out and tell us that—he said, "Because he has gone to fetch the other; but I dare say if you wait he will be back"—we promised to be back in an hour and a half, and when we went the house was closed, and no one was there—on the next evening the prisoner came to my place
again—I asked him if he had heard anything more of them—he said that he had not—I had a policeman waiting, and gave him into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. How long had you known Wilson? A. Very nearly twelve months, by his using a house which I kept over the water, before I came to Rupert-street—I had only been there ten days—he used to come to see a friend of his, Mr. Greatorex, who used the house—I do not know his father—I understand he is a publican—I do not know that he kept the Thirteen Cantons for twenty-five years—it was between 7 and 8 o'clock that the conversation took place about the robbery—he said that he was in a house the night previous and heard that conversation—he did not say, when I mentioned the hydrometer, "That is what I will inquire about"; or, "That is the best thing for me to inquire about"—he said, "I think I can get it back for you"—Mr. Graham is a publican—I saw him at the police court on the second examination—he came to make a statement about the hydrometer—I did not give the prisoner any money—I did not act under the advice of the police, but at my discretion—the conversation did not last many minutes, certainly not twenty minutes—when he was given into custody, he said to the sergeant, "I would not have had it happen for 50l."—he appeared surprised when I gave him into custody—I do not recollect that he also said, "It might be the ruin of me."
WILLIAM GODFREY (police-sergeant, C 5). On 10th Jan., at night, the prosecutor and the prisoner came to the station—the prisoner had a hydrometer—I asked him where be got it from—he told me that he had it in a public house at Hayes Court—I asked "From whom?"—he said that he did not know the name of the man who gave it to him—I said, "What sort of a man was he?"—he said, "He is a man about five feet six or seven, rather thin, lightish hair; dressed in a dark paletot, black hat, bell crown, with the brim turned up with silk"—I said, "You had better go back; I and Mr. Scott will wait outside, and you can see if the man is there; and if he is, come out and let us know immediately"—we waited there more than an hour, or an hour and a half—several people came in and out—the prisoner came out, and I asked him if the man was there—he said, "No; the man is gone. Did you see a man come out: a short, stiff built man, dressed in a rough coat and a cap, smoking?"—I said, "Yes, we did"—he said, "That is one of the men who brought it to me"—I said, "Why did not you come out and let us know?"—he hesitated, and said, "I think he has gone to fetch the other man"—I said, "It is not very likely he will come back"—we left him there with an understanding that he should wait; we came back in an hour and a half, and the house was closed—when he mentioned the man who gave him the hydrometer, he did not mention any other person, nor has he done so at all—he has not mentioned that the landlord gave it to him—he has never mentioned the landlord's name to me in the transaction.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he give you that description as one of the men who he had heard speak of the matter? A. No; I asked him from whom he had obtained the hydrometer, and he gave me that description.
RICHARD EDMONDS (policeman, C 137). I took the prisoner on the 11th, at 8 o'clock in the evening—he said he was very sorry; he had rather have given 50l.; that he had received the hydrometer from a man named Graham, the keeper of a public house in Hayes-court.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not he say, "I had rather have given 50l. than my name should have been mixed up in this matter?"A. No; he said that
it might be the ruin of him—he was excited at the time—he was rather surprised and hurt when he was given into custody—I do not know his father—I do not know that he kept the Thirteen Cantons—I believe the prisoner kept it himself—I do not know the Two Spies in Catherine-street, Strand.
MR. PARRY called
JOHN GRAHAM . I keep the Geneva Arms, Hayes-court, Leicester-square, and have done so for ten months—I have been a licensed victualler about eight years—I have known the prisoner ever since I hare been there—I do not know his father—I attended at the police court to make a statement on the prisoner's behalf—he called at my house on 10th Jan., about 7 o'clock in the evening, and I showed him this hydrometer which had been left with me, about 6 o'clock, by a customer of mine, named Pike; and said to him, "You may know of somebody who will buy it"—he said that he thought he knew a gentleman who would—I entrusted it to him for sale the same evening, having had it in my possession about an hour and a half—I afterwards heard that he was in custody, and felt it my duty to attend at the police court and make a statement—I have endeavoured to apprehend the man who left it with me, and have placed the matter in the hands of the police—I have not seen the man since—I could not have done more than I have done.
Cross-examined by MR. SALTER. Q. Where were you before you were at the Geneva Arms? A. At the Golden Anchor public house, St. John-street, Clerkenwell—I left there twelve months' ago last Nov.—I was there nearly four years—between the time of leaving there and going to the Geneva Arms, I was out of business, and lived with my brother, who keeps the Duchess of Kent, in the Dover-road, and part of the time I was at ray brother-in-law's—I cannot say particularly whether any people met at my house on the evening of the 9th—I do not recollect the prisoner being there, and do not believe that he was—he does not come there with any one particularly; sometimes with one, and sometimes with another—I have seen a man named Greatorex, but do not think I should know him if I were to see him again—I am not in the habit of having things left in this way a great deal, but I always have done so—it is not unusual to have watches and one thing or another to sell or put up to raffle—I have not had much property at my house lately; I do not think I have had anything—I cannot recollect a single article being left before at that house, but if a customer asks me to do such a thing, I do it, but am not in the habit of it—I do not know much of Pike; he is a customer, and came in that night as usual, and offered the instrument to me, and asked if I would buy it; I said that I did not want it—he said, "If you do not want it, take care of it for me while I go up stairs to smoke, and in the mean time if you know anybody who is likely to buy it, you can sell it for two guineas," which I thought was a very fair price—when Wilson came in I spoke to him about it, and he undertook to sell it, and had it away from me for that purpose—he did not bring it back to me, but he came back to the house afterwards, and said that it was in the hands of the police—that was about 10 o'clock; it might be before or after—the man who left it, was there when he came in—when he returned at 10 o'clock, there were several persons up stairs, but I do not know their names; there were two or three regular customers of mine—the prisoner was not with them; he was walking about in front of the bar and in the tap room—he said to me, "This is a very singular thing, but I happened to take it to the very man who has lost it, and now
the matter is in the hands of the police, so I shall not give it to you back again"—he did not make any inquiry for Pike, and asked no questions as to who gave it to me.
MR. PARRY. Q. You stated that Pike gave it to you; I only ask you this, have you told us the truth? A. That is the real truth just as it occurred—I know nothing about the representations that the prisoner made, and do not know what possessed him to tell a lie about it—I mentioned to one of the officers that it was a pity he did not, tell the truth in the first place—I have been a licensed victualler eight years, and have a license from the Magistrates to carry on my business.
(MR. PARRY inquired of the Court whether it was necessary for him to call witnesses to show where the prisoner was the night before. The COURT considered that it was not, being no part of the issue.)
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
(The Jury considered that Mr. Graham deserved great censure for not obtaining the address of the person from whom he received the hydrometer, and that He prisoner had acted highly improperly.)
MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH WILLIAMS . I am the wife of Thomas Williams, of No. 7, Quaker-street, Spitalfields. Caroline Haines used to lodge there with me, before this took place—I know the prisoner; he kept company with her, but did not live in the house—on Tuesday, 2nd Jan., about half past 12 o'clock at night, I was in bed in the down stairs room—the prisoner and Caroline Haines came up to the street door, and were quarrelling there some time—Caroline Haines afterwards came into my bedroom, and said that a young man had assaulted her at a public house—the prisoner was at the door and could hear every word, and while she was telling me he came into my room, and said, "It is a lie Bet, all that she has told you"—she said, "I have told her all the truth, Bill"—he said, "If you say another word, I will cut your throat with a razor"—there was a razor with a fixed wooden handle which I use in my business, lying on the table—he took it up, rushed towards her, and said he would cut her b—y throat; she put her arm across, and it cut her right arm—I did not see what part of her person it was pointed at, as he ran so quick—the wound bled very much—the prisoner then ran out, and I fetched Haines's father—I was not in the house, when the prisoner returned—Haines was taken to the hospital—she had very much aggravated the prisoner, but had not done anything to him—she often aggravated him; he is a very passionate man, and she knows very well that he cannot take aggravation.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Do not you know from her that she scratched his face that evening? A. No; I saw no mark on his face—I have known the prisoner about three years and a half—Caroline Haines has lodged there about seven months; the prisoner has been keeping company with her between three and four years—I use the razor for cutting cane—I am not living with my husband; I should not think it concerns the case for me to say why—he is in trouble, more to my misfortune, for lie has left me unprotected and unprovided for, with a young child—he is under penal servitude, but I cannot help his faults; I have to work very hard for my living—1 was there when the prisoner came; the prosecutrix brought him to the door—the prisoner appeared sober, and as if he knew
what he was about, but he was in a violent passion—I was sitting up in bed—I work in the room, cutting cane—I cane chairs and sofas, that is my trade—that is the only room I occupy.
CAROLINE HAINES . At this time I lodged at No. 7, Quaker-street, Spitalfields—I have been keeping company with the prisoner for three years and a half—I had been to a public house with him on the night of 1st Jan.; we left about 12 o'clock or a quarter past—two oyster men were quarrelling there, and I said that they ought to know better than to serve a poor man like that, and that I would give one of them in charge—as I came along with the prisoner to No. 7, Quaker-street, we had words, and also at the door—I went to the room which Mrs. Williams occupies, and left the prisoner at the street door—while I was telling Mrs. Williams what had happened at the public house the prisoner came in and said, "It is false"; and began to tell Mrs. Williams what it was himself—I told him he was frightened of the men there, or he would have allowed me to go in, and we had a few words—I said I had told the truth, and he said that it was a lie—I did not see a razor on the table; I was at the door, and the prisoner was at Mrs. Williams's bed side; the table was about a quarter of a yard from the bed—I did not see the prisoner take anything off the table—he was standing about two yards from me—he came towards me and up with his hand; I thought he was going to hit me—I thought he made the blow at my face and put my arm up to save my face, and received the blow on my right arm—it bled very much—I did not see the razor, until he heaved it at me—I was taken to a hospital, and remained there a fortnight all but two days.
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner has a great impediment in his speech? A. Yes; and it is difficult to understand him—I had been quarrelling with him, and had given him a slight scratch on the face—I was a little excited—I did not scratch him as strongly and as sharply as I could—it was sharp enough to make him feel—that was just before I went into the room where Williams was, and he followed in afterwards—we had both been drinking—he had been drinking a good deal of ale and wine, and was certainly the worse for liquor—I did not hear him say anything when he ran towards me.
MR. CAARTEN. Q. How far is the public house from where you lived? A. The next turning, five minutes' walk—the prisoner had had a great deal of ale up stairs—we had gone out together, and walked home together—I was with him all the time he was drinking—he drank a great deal, and was rather the worse for liquor—I cannot say whether he knew what he was about.
EDMUND CARLTON (policeman, H 79). On Tuesday morning, 2nd Jan., I was on duty in Quaker-street, about 200 or 300 yards from No. 7—the prisoner ran up to me, and said, "Come along with me"—he took me to No. 7, Quaker-street, and I found the prosecutrix in a front room on the ground floor, bleeding from the right wrist—there was a great deal of blood on the floor—the girl's father gave the prisoner in charge, and I took him to the station—I afterwards went back, and Mrs. Williams gave me a razor—the prisoner appeared sober to me—he ran to me, and spoke to me.
Cross-examined. Q. He appeared to be excited, did not he? A. Yes—I had never seen him before, to my knowledge.
MR. CAARTEN. Q. Did the excitement appear to be from drink, or any other cause? A. I cannot tell; but to the best of my belief, he was sober—the station is half or quarter of a mile from Quaker-street—he walked to the station—I had not to hold him up; 1 took him by the arm.
DAVID CLARK THORSTHILL . I am one of the house surgeons at the London Hospital. On 2nd Jan., about 1 o'clock, Caroline Haines was brought there, bleeding from a wound on the wrist, about three or four inches long—this razor would be likely to inflict such a wound—she continued in the hospital about tea days, and then became an out patient.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe it was not a deep wound? A. No.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Aged 22.— Confined Four Months.
285. JESSE SAVAGE and ROBERT GOODAWAY , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Eltein, at Kensington, and stealing there from 2 pairs of boots and 1 orange, value 1l. 0s. 1d.; and 2s. in money; his property.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH ELTEIN . I am a grocer, of High-street, Kensington. On Saturday night, 13th Jan., I went to bed between 12 and 1 o'clock—I had not got into a firm sleep when I heard a noise below, and awoke up, and saw a light coming from my door, which I had closed before; and by that light I saw a man standing at my glass—he stooped down when I rose in bed—I said, "Who are you?" and he turned his face towards me—it was the prisoner, Savage—I am quite positive of him; I shall never forget him—I said, "You thief!" and rose up from my bed—he sprang out of the room, and I followed him down stairs, and heard him escape by the staircase window before I could reach him—this lantern (produced) was just outride my door—I went into the parlour—the window had been tried to be forced open, but they had not succeeded; they had afterwards opened it from the inside, and I found it wide open—I found both my tills open, and all the copper extracted—I missed an orange, which was in the parlour cupboard the night before—I found two pairs of boots of mine outside the parlour window—the windows were all fastened when I went to bed, except the staircase window, which had no fastening, but it was closed—I called the police—next morning I found this pair of strange boots (produced) under the table—I found some green wax on a chair in the parlour, and the policeman afterwards showed me some green wax which corresponded with it.
COURT. Q. Is it your dwelling house? A. Yes—it is in the parish of St. Mary Abbotts, Kensington—I was the last person up that night.
GEORGE ROBINS (policeman, T 231). At a quarter past 3 o'clock on this night, I was on duty in High-street, Kensington—I heard a call, and went to, the rear of Mr. Eltein's house—I saw another constable who I left in the rear, and I went to the front door and knocked—as soon as I got in, I saw that the back parlour window was open—I went out at the window, and saw marks of somebody sliding over the roof of one of the outhouses; the mortar was removed from the tiles—the marks went from the roof towards the Wheat Sheaf—my attention was called to a pair of Blucher boots—I afterwards saw a ladder in Mr. Jones's yard, placed in such a way as a person could get up from the Wheat Sheaf yard—I descended by it and got into the Wheat Sheaf yard, and found the prisoner Good away in a water closet there—one of his feet was covered at the bottom with black mud, and slightly scratched, as if by glass, and bleeding a little—there was glass under the window in the yard—I asked him what he did there; he said that he went there to sleep—I said, "Where are your boots?" he said, "They are over
the wall in the street"—on going to the station, I said that I supposed he took his boots off that he should go up stairs the quieter—he said, "No"; and that he did not go up stairs, it was the other man—I found on him an orange, a small wax taper, and some lucifer matches (produced); this taper does not correspond with the wax marks; this is a white one—here is some wax on his cap (produced), which corresponds with that found at Mr. Eltein's house—I searched the water closet, but previous to that the potman had been there and found this screwdriver (produced), which I compared with the shutters, and it corresponded—this (produced), is a piece of the shutter which was wrenched off—there was mud on the roof and tiles corresponding with the mud on Good away's feet.
JOHN EMBLEM . I am in the service of Mr. Jones, who keeps the Wheat Sheaf. The prisoners are strangers to me—I was disturbed on this Sunday morning by a violent ringing at the bell, and came down and let the police in, who had the prisoners in custody—the house had been closed at 12 o'clock the night before—I found this screwdriver in the water closet, and gave it to my master—the ladder was removed before I saw it—a piece of glass in the kitchen window was broken.
JAMES CLARK (policeman, T 183). On Sunday, 14th Jan., I received this screwdriver—on the 17th I apprehended Savage in a court at Westminster—I told him the charge; he said, "I know nothing of it, I am innocent"—I found a pair of boots in the room, but did not compare them with those I received from Mr. Eltein; I did another pair—I found this memorandum book (produced) on the mantel shelf—it contains this entry, "Belton, 1st door on the right in King-street, No. 2, Wentworth-street, Whitechapel; Richard Irving, and Jesse Irving"—I believe Good away goes by the name of Irving—I received a pair of boots from Mr. Eltein, and fitted them on to Savage; they fitted him well—he denied their being his.
SAMUEL LANCASTER (policeman, V 260). On Saturday night, 13th Jan., about 12 o'clock, I was on duty in Bond-street, Chelsea, and met the prisoners, one about four yards behind the other, going towards Kensington.
ELIZABETH SULLIVAN . I live at No. 6, Snow's-rents, York-street, Westminster. I frequent Goodaway's company—Mary Madden, who keeps company with the other prisoner, lives with me—on this Saturday night the prisoners left our place at about 11 o'clock—Savage returned at about 8 o'clock next morning without any boots; I asked him where his boots were; he said he had got into a row and lost them—I asked him where Irving was; he answered me very sharply, that he was locked up—I have seen this memorandum book in Savage's possession.
Savage. Q. Were not you gone up stairs to bed when I came home at 8 o'clock? A. Yes—you had been in the parlour before you came up stairs. Savage's Defence. I do not get my living by thieving; I have been convicted once, but am innocent of this; I certainly was along with Goodaway.
(The prisoners were both further charged with having been before convicted.) JOSEPH HANSON (policeman, M 9). I produce certificate—(read—Guildhall', Westminster; Jesse Savage, convicted Nov., 1851, of stealing a gun; confined six months)—I was present—Savage is the man.
GEORGE HEATH (policeman, V 345). I produce a certificate—(read—Guildhall. Westminster; Richard Irving convicted June, 1854, of stealing bacon; confined six months)—Good away is the person.
SAVAGE—GUILTY. Aged 22.
GOODAWAY—GUILTY Aged 17.
Four year's Penal Servitude.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZA MOORE . I am single, and have been living with the prisoner as his servant. On 13th Jan., between 8 and 9 o'clock at night, I was in a back room of the prisoner's house, No. 19, Wilmer's-gardens, Kingsland-road—I went there to fetch away the remainder of my clothes—I and the prisoner had been to several public houses previous to that—when he got to his house he was about to unlock the street door to go in—I snatched the key from him, and ran away with it—I was a good deal excited at the time—in about a quarter of an hour I went back to the prisoner's house, and he let me in—I went with him to the back room—there was a light there—directly I got into the room he stabbed me under the jaw—I raised my hand, and he nearly cut my finger off, I cannot tell what with—I bled very much from my neck—I called for assistance, and was taken to the hospital.
COURT. Q. Had anything passed between you before you snatched the key? A. There were some unpleasant words, but not quarrelling—I have known the prisoner just upon four months, by living with him as his servant—when I came back, after running away with the key, he was looking out of the up-stairs window—he had another key, but I do not know how he got in—we had nothing but a little porter at each public house—I went to fetch away my clothes, because I had left him then one week and three days—we continued good friends, although I had left—we did not speak to each other when I first went in; I went straight up stairs; I did not sit down; I had no time, and I did not go with that intention.
MR. COOPER. Q. Do you mean to say that you said nothing to him which caused this? A. No—he had not spoken angrily to me before, and had never threatened me—we had been good friends, save a few words—I never saw the prisoner the worse for liquor, but I think he is passionate.
JAMES M'CULLOCH (policeman, N 86). About 10 o'clock, on this Saturday night, I went to the prisoner's house, and saw the prosecutrix sitting in a chair in the first floor front room, bleeding from her right hand and neck—the floor was covered with blood—I went up stairs, and found the prisoner in the back bedroom—I told him that he was charged with stabbing a woman, and must go to the station—he said, "I know I have done it, and I meant to have done it, and meant to have killed her, and I would not care if I had swung for it"—I took him to the station, and found this common hack knife (produced) in his left hand waistcoat pocket, covered with blood.
EDWARD TAYLOR . I live with Mr. Coward, surgeon to the police, of the New North-road. Between 10 and 11 o'clock on this Saturday night, I was called to the police station, and found the prosecutrix with an incised wound on the cheek, and a gash inside the fore finger of the right hand—the wound on the cheek was three quarters of an inch wide, and down to the bone—a knife like this would produce both the wounds—neither of them was dangerous, no vital part was injured—I did what was necessary, and she was afterwards taken to a hospital.
Prisoner's Defence. When she came in from upstairs I had another young person attending on my wife, and I said to the young person, "Just give her her things," and they went into the room together; the young person said, "Here are your clothes"; she said, "Do not you know how to answer better, you dirty bitch"; I ran into the room with a knife in my
hand to stop her from knocking her down, but whether I did it or not I do not know.
GUILTY . Aged 60.— Confined Twelve Months.
OLD COURT.—Friday, February 2nd, 1855.
PRESENT—MR. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCES WILLCOCKS . I am the wife of John Willcocks, of No. 26, Mary-street, Hampstead-road. On Monday, 23rd Oct., my husband wrote a letter to the Great Northern Railway Company, in my presence—this (produced) is it—(read: "Oct. 23rd. Sir,—I wish you to send me 1 1/2 ton of first class coals, as soon as you can. J. Willcocks, 26, Mary-street, Hampstead-road—Silkstones." The letter was not addressed to anybody)—it was put into an envelope which was addressed to Mr. Herbert Clarke—(MR. BALLANTINE submitted that neither the letter or the envelope were receivable in evidence, not being brought to the knowledge of the prisoners. The COURT considered the evidence admissible as proof of an allegation in the Indictment, but would make a note of the point)—on 25th Oct. we received an answer to that letter—it is destroyed—it stated that they could not deliver Silkstones until 30th Nov., but that Wall send could be had in a week—on the same day my husband wrote this letter (produced—MR. PARRY objected to this letter, as being written by a man whom the prisoners could not be shown to have any cognizance of. The COURT considered, upon looking at the letter, that it amounted to an order, and came within the same category as the other letter—read: "Oct. 25th. I wish you to send me one ton of Wall send coals, at the time you state. J. Willcocks, Mary-street, Harapstead-road.")—on the 27th I received this answer—(read: "Great Northern Railway, Coal department, King's-cross. Sir,—In acknowledging the receipt of your order for coals, I beg to inform you that the same shall be executed on 27th Nov., at 28s. per ton."—MR. BALLANTINE renewed his objection, and contended that the Court had no power to allow the letters to be read, even de bene esse. MR. BODKIN stated that he was in a position to prove that King was informed of the order being given, and that it was about to be executed. The COURT considered that it was evidence of the fact of the contract, although not brought to the knowledge of the prisoners.)—on 26th Oct. King called at our house, and said, "I have come from the Great Northern Railway, to solicit an order for coals"—I said, "We have given an order for some"—he said, "For many?"—I said, "For a ton and a half"—he said, "Silkstones?"—I said, "No, Wallsend"—he said, "They are 28s., for they have rose"—I said, "Yes, they are; Mr. Willcocks wrote for Silkstones, but they could not deliver those until 30th Nov., but Wallsend they could deliver a week after the order was given," and that as they could not deliver the coals for
that length of time, and We should be obliged to purchase, the cheapest way would be to have the best—he said that although there was only 2s. difference in the price, there was 10s. in the quality between Wallsend and Silkstones, and he was sorry he did not call before—I said that if he had, and the coals had been the same, he might have had the order—he said, "They would be precisely the same, for I come direct from the railway; I am an agent of the Great Northern Railway Company"—I said that another time if he was passing, and we wanted coals, he should have the order—he said, "Good morning," and went away—on the following Tuesday, 31st Oct., a ton and a half of coals were brought by James Dark, a carman—he brought these two papers (produced) with him—one is an invoice, and the other the vendor's ticket—I paid the carman two guineas—about two hours afterwards I heard some statement, and went to the Railway coal office, and made inquiries, and in consequence of what I heard I went to Bidborough-street, the place named on the ticket which I received—that is in the immediate neighbourhood of the railway—I saw Mrs. King, and as I came away I met King, and asked him who authorised him to send me those coals—I said, "You do not mean to say that I gave you the order last week when you called?"—he paid, "Certainly not; but a young girl, called last evening, and told me to send them"—I said, "I never sent any one to you"—he said, "I certainly received the order, or else I should not have sent them"—I said, "I do not believe that they have come from the railway at all"—he said, "They have, I can assure you, and I should like to see Mr. Willcocks"—I said, "He will be at home this evening at half past 7 o'clock"—he said that he would call at 8 o'clock—I said, "If you do not call, some one shall hall on you"—he said, "You make me laugh," and I left him in the street—he never called—I gave information to the company, and gave a (sample of the coals to Lockerby, the officer, on 28th Nov.—on the second morning after the coals were delivered, Bates came to me and said, "Is Mr. Willcocks at home"; I said, "No, but I am Mrs. Willcocks"—he said, "I have called about some coals from Mrs. King, that were delivered the day before yesterday, and to save any bother about it, Mrs. King has got me to come here to offer to take the coals away"—I said, "I do not think we can allow them to be taken away; we have been to a solicitor about it, and he told us not to let the coals be taken away, or accept of any money"—he said that Mr. King came home the night before beastly drunk, and had broken his arm and damaged his nose; he gave him a dreadful character for drunkenness, and said that it was not out of respect for him, but out of respect for Mrs. King that he came, for he did not wish her to have any trouble with it—he seemed to persuade me very much to let the coals go away—I said that Mr. Willcocks had lost the whole of yesterday, and I could not let the coals go without seeing him, and told him to call again, and I would let him know whether he would let him take them away or not—he went away and came again that evening, and offered 6a. for Mr. Willcocks's loss of time (Mr. Willcocks is a coach wheeler)—I said that it was not likely I should let them go when we should have the lawyer to pay, and the mess of the coals—he said, "I will tell you what I will do, Mrs. Willcocks; I will do it on my own responsibility, I will give you 12s. as the difference on the coals, which will make 18s." (that was 12s. besides the 6s.)—I said, "I do not think we can do it, for the solicitor tells us not to make a compromise in any way; if Mr. Willcocks will agree to it, I will call upon you to-morrow morning"—I knew where he lived; I went
there to see if I could find out who the carman was, and I went to three. shops to see if I could find out who had done business for King—in the afternoon, after he called on me in the morning, I went into the shop, not knowing it was the same, and Bates came into the shop—it was in Seymour-street, they sold potatoes—I am not certain whether they sold greengrocery—Mr. Willcocks afterwards wrote a letter to Mr. King, and Mrs. King came with a waggon for the coals, but on the previous evening, 27th Nov., Mrs. King and Mr. Bates came—they saw Mr. Willcocks first, he opened the door to them; he is here—they made an arrangement to take the coals away, and Mr. Bates in my presence offered to give Mr. Willcocks 10s. as a difference on the coals—I said that they were very bad, and I had said so before—the name of the coals was not mentioned at all—when I said that they were very bad, Bates said that they were not Wallsend, and he offered 10s. for the difference—my husband said, "What do you want to offer me 10s. for now; you offered me 12s. before?"—he said that Mr. King had been at such a great expense, that he thought Mr. Willcocks might take the 10s.—my husband agreed to take it, and he was going to make out a receipt for the money, when Bates said, "No, I must have it written down that it is a compromise, that you will not proceed any further in the case"—Mr. Willcocks said, no he would not write that—I said, "Take the coals away, I had rather you would do that" he said, "Very well, we will"; and turned round, and said to Mrs. King, "If we take the coals away, they cannot proceed any further"—they said that they would come the next morning at 9 o'clock to take them away, and they did so, and Mrs. King paid 1. 6s. 2d. for them; that was at the rate of 28s. a ton for what was left; we had burned part of them—two carmen took them away, but I do not know them—I could recognise them, they were different men to those that brought them—I have not seen them since—on 2nd Nov. I saw the same man Dark delivering a load of coals at Mr. Veitch's, next door; I called him and had some conversation with him, and I afterwards spoke to Mrs. Veitch on the subject—the sample was taken out on the same day that the coals were taken away—Lockerby came and told us to save a sample, and we did so before the carman took the coals away.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did you take a sum of 1l. 6s. 2d.? A. Yes—that was not to settle the matter—I was very glad to get rid of them; but they could not suppose that we were going to settle the matter when Mr. Willcocks would not write out a compromise—I gave them a receipt for the money—we had received instructions from Lockerby to take the money—we took the 1l. 6s. 2d., and returned the coals which we had not used—I do not call that settling the matter—I have not got the 116s. 2d. by me now; but we have got that sum at home—we did not give it to Lockerby, we kept it—the coals were weighed before they were taken away—they were very bad—we have dealt with the Great Northern Company for four or five years, and have found the coals very good—this bill is headed, "Debtor to John King, "and the delivery note has at the bottom, "J. King, seller"—I saw that at the time, and noticed it.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What induced you to pay the two guineas? A. I considered that I was paying it to the railway authorities, and that I had had the coals from there.
AGNES EASTOE . I am the wife of Robert Eastoe, and live at No. 24, William-street, Hampstead-road. On 30th Oct. King called at our house—he said, "What coals do you require for the winter, Ma'am?"—I said we had ordered our coals for the winter—he said, "Is there any lodger in the
house that requires any coals?"—I said if he would leave a circular I would give it to them—he said he did not carry circulars when he came direct from the office, but would I allow him to call with one on the following day—I said he might—he then said, "I come from the Great Northern Railway Company"—I said we had ordered a ton of Silkstone coals from them—he said, "They are up in price"—I said they were not up in price to us, we had ordered them a fortnight ago; they were 26s., and we were to have them on Thursday, 2nd Nov.—he said would we not like them in earlier; he could get them sent in earlier if I liked—I told him I would hear what my husband said about it—he then said, "Good afternoon," and went away—the next afternoon he came again; he said nothing about the circular, but wished to know if I wanted the coals earlier—I told him no; that my husband had an acknowledgment from Mr. Herbert Clarke on Thursday, and we were in no hurry for the coals—I asked him if he had come from Mr. Herbert Clarke, and he said, "Yes, I come from Mr. Herbert Clarke"—he bid me "Good afternoon, "and said he must brush along—on Thursday, 2nd Nov., a waggon of coals came to our house about a quarter past 10 o'clock in the morning—Dark, the carman, came with them—one ton was brought—he brought this paper (produced)—! Particularly noticed this writing on the back of it, "before 11 o'clock, "and thought I was favoured by having the coals delivered so early—I paid the bill—it was 26s.—I paid it to Dark—(This bill was headed, "Mrs. Eastoe, Dr. to John King, agent to the Great Northern Railway Company"; but the words, "agent" and "Great" were scratched through with ink; it was receipted, "Paid, J. King. ")—The paper was in this state when it was delivered, with the word "agent" struck out—I was induced to pay the 26s., because I expected my coals that I had ordered from the Great Northern Railway Company, and I quite believed they were the coals that we had ordered from them—they turned out to be rubbish, dust, and a quantity of stones—they were very bad indeed, dust and waste—I afterwards pointed them out to Lockerby, the officer, and stood by him while he took a sample of them—that was the first day I was examined at Clerkenwell Police Court—he took a sample of the same coal that was sent to us on 2nd. Nov.—I communicated with the Company the same day that the coals came, and about an hour afterwards, when the coals came that we had ordered from the Company—my husband immediately went to the office, and from there to King's house—I did not go with him, I took the coals in; I did not see King after that; his wife called on Saturday morning with a note which my husband had written to King; he had some conversation; she did not pay me any money then—that was nearly a month after, a few days before King was apprehended, when she came accompanied by Bates—she had been twice before wishing us to take money, and we refused; she came with another man, not Bates—the third time she came with Bates, and he was spokesman on behalf of Mr. King—he told my husband and me that King was keeping out of the way—that it was 15l. or 20l. out of King's pocket being out of the way; and he could not make his appearance for fear of being tapped on The shoulder, and being told that he was wanted—he did not say what King was out of the way for—Lockerby had called several times before this—. Bates wished us to accept of is.; he proposed it—my husband said, "Well, I don't care about taking a few shillings, I am not going to sell myself for a few shillings"; we had refused the money twice before—my husband was present when Bates came, and he said he did not wish any money—it was not said why this money was to be paid; we understood that it was a portion
of the money being returned on account of the coals being sent that we had not ordered, and their turning out to be so bad—in the end is. Was paid by Mrs. King, in Bates's presence—he told my husband that he would take his word that he had received the is., he need not write it down—my husband is a pianoforte maker, and is foreman to Mr. Reed, Dinah-place, New-road.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You did eventually receive the 4s.? A. Yes; after they had been twice before to offer us 4 s., and we had refused.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Had you, between the time when you refused to take the 4s., and the time when your husband took it, seen Lockerby? A. Yes.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Bid your husband know that you were seeing Lockerby? A. Yes; I do not do any transaction without my husband's knowledge.
EMMA BAGLEY . I do needle work. On the last Thursday in Oct., I was working at Mrs. Veitch's, at No. 25, Mary-street, Hampstead-road; that is next door to Mrs. Willcocks—I remember a knock coming to the door, which I answered, and the prisoner King was there; he asked if I would please to say that he had called from the Great Northern Railway Company about some coals—I went and told Mrs. Veitch, and she came to the door—I left her and King together.
ELIZABETH VEITCH . I am the wife of Robert Veitch, a carpenter; I live next door to Mrs. Willcocks. I was at home the last Thursday in Oct. when Bagley answered the door—she came and told me that a person from the Great Northern Railway Company had called—I went into the passage and saw King—I asked him if he had called from the Great Northern Railway Company about coals—he said, "Yes"—I asked him the price; he told me they were 25s., and 27s. and 28s.—I asked him the price of the Silkstone coals; he said they were 27s.—I then said I should not mind half a ton, but the Company did not sell half tons—he said, "Oh, yes! they do; we have made new regulations for that "; but he thought I had better have a ton, as the coals were rising in price—I then gave him the order for a ton of the best Silkstone coals—he said I should have them on that day week, which would be 2nd Nov.—on that day, a little before 11 o'clock, a ton of coals came; Dark, the carman, came with them, and brought this paper—(this was similar to the other)—I paid him 27s., which is charged here—the coals were put in my cellar—I afterwards saw Lockerby, and allowed him to go down and take a sample of the coals from where they were put—I pointed out to him where they were put—I had no other coals on that side of the cellar; there were some more in the cellar—I pointed out to Lockerby the side these coals were on, and I am sure he took the sample from them—I was induced to pay the 27s. because King told me that for that price he would deliver to me the best Silkstone coals, and I thought I was paying the money for the Great Northern Railway coals, and that it had been their agent that had called upon me for the order—that was the reason I gave the order for the coals.
JAMES DARK . I have been in the employ of Mr. Bates, as carman, for upwards of two years—I live in Drummond-crescent—I am still in his employment—my employment consisted in the delivery of coals to different persons—I remember taking some coals to Mr. Willcocks, in Mary-street, Hampstead-road—it was either a ton or a ton and a half, I do not remember which—I cannot write—I got those coals from the Great Northern Railway—Mr. Bates sent me there—he also desired me to take them to Mr. Willcocks—he gave me the tickets, which I delivered—these
(produced) are the same tickets, I believe—I gave at the house of Willcocks the papers that I received from Mr. Bates—I did not see Mr. Bates write' on them before he gave them to me—I cannot say at what time I got to the Great Northern Railway that morning; I forget; it was some time in the morning—I remember receiving 2l. 2s. at Mr. Willcocks'—the receipt was signed when I took it; it was signed in the name of King, when it was given me by Mr. Bates—when I returned, I gave the two guineas to Mr. Bates—I have seen King—I have seen him once or twice at my master's, before this case came on—I did not receive any instructions from my master to say anything when I got to Willcock's—he did not tell me what coal it was I was to take—I remember going to Mrs. Eastoe's, No. 24, William-street, Hampstead-road; I think I took a ton of coals there—I got them at the Great Northern Railway, by Mr. Bates's desire—I received this paper (produced) from him when I went out—I delivered that at Mrs. Eastoe's, with the coals—I do not know what the amount was that I received; I believe it was 26s.—I gave that to my master, Mr. Bates—on the same day I delivered some coals close by Willcocks'; I do not know at what number it was—I think I delivered a ton—I saw the lady (looking at Mrs. Veitch)—I think that is the lady I saw—she paid me for the coals—I forget what it was; it was the amount that was on the bill I know—I left the bill that Mr. Bates had given me.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTTNE. Q. Is the defendant, Bates, your master? A. Yes—he is a carman—I believe he has four waggons—he used to work for any persons that employed him, removing goods or anything else.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Does he also deal in coals? A. Yes; he keeps a coal shed—he does not keep a greengrocer's shop, or sell potatoes.
JURY. Q. What were your master's orders when you went to the railway for the coals? A. I had some tickets to get a load of coals and deliver them—I took a sort of paper that we have, to the railway—my master did not give me a written paper; it is a sort of paper that the railway people give—I did not take any order from my master; he gave me a paper—I do not mean the paper that I have seen here; it is left at the railway.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Are those the papers that your master gave you (producing some)? A. They are the sort of papers we have—I cannot read—I can see the printed word "Hartley"—I cannot read writing—I can read print a little—I delivered the tickets that my master gave me, to the Company, for the purpose of procuring the coals—I cannot remember whether the papers he gave me had the word "Hartley" on them.
JOSEPH HIRD . I am a clerk in the coal department of the Great Northern Railway Company—it is my duty to deliver dealers' tickets to the dealers who come for coals to the station—they pay for the coals, and take the ticket to the place where the coals are, and get them—dealers are not allowed any discount; all parties who fetch coals from the station are charged one price, but we deliver coals to the public ourselves—any person coming with a horse and cart would give me a ticket in the same way—it is my duty to make an entry of the transactions in a book—I know Bates—these four tickets (produced) were either issued to Bates or to his order on 31st Oct., and I received the money—we have no other dealer of the name of Bates; and at the time these tickets were issued for Hartley coals, we had only a small quantity of Hartley's to sell—the name of Bates here is my writing—that enables me to say they were issued either to Bates himself or his order—these four tickets represent altogether thirteen
tons of Hartley coals, all on the same day, 31st Oct.—the price was 17s. per ton.—these tickets came from the coal office; they do not come back to me, they are left with the weigh bridge clerk—I have the book here with the entries of all the coals sold on that day—no coals were sold to Bates on 31st Oct., except these thirteen tons—the issue of these tickets from our office entitles the holder of them to the delivery of coals corresponding with these mentioned here—I have looked through my book—I find entries of other tickets for Hartley coals delivered to Bates about that time—on 21st Oct., he had two tons of Hartley coals.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Are there other descriptions of coals sold to him besides Hartley coals? A. Not on that day—I have not looked over my books with reference to other days—he has had coals of different descriptions—he comes every day to the office—Wallsend coals come up by us—he had none that day—on 30th Oct. he had three tons of Belmonts—they are called a Wallsend coal, I believe, though I do not know the term "Wallsend"; I only know the terms used at our office—we have Barnsley coals, distinct from Hartleys—I believe the Hartleys we have come from Yorkshire, but I am not safficiently well informed to say—I have never burnt the Barnsley coal—I am not a householder—I do not burn the coals; I merely sell them—I do not know what they burn at the Great Northern; it is not my duty to inquire—Hartley is the name of a coal; I do not know of any place of that name.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Whatever coals they were that were sold to Bates, they were sold as Hartley coals, were they not? A. Yes—I do not know of a place called Hartley—I have never sold Barnsley coals, and called them Hartleys—I have not, to my knowledge, sold Barnsley coals, and sent out Hartley tickets; I am sure of it.
COURT. Q. Are these tickets given out upon separate applications? A. No—these thirteen tons were given out on one application—we have different tickets for different kinds of coal—we do not supply blank forms to customers—they are obliged to take the quantity mentioned in the ticket—a van will carry three tons, and some four—as he wants to fetch the coals so he must take the tickets—he must take off the premises the quantity specified in the tickets—he must take them away the same day, but is not obliged to take them at that particular time.
HENRY FUSBER . I am a clerk in the coal department of the Great Northern Railway Company. It is my duty to make an entry of the coals that are sold to persons who are not dealers, to whom we deliver coals—I have my book here—I do not find any entry on 31st Oct. of any coals to Mr. Willcocks, or on 3rd Nov. to Eastoe—I have not brought the right book.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Do you know anything at all about how the Company manage with their coals, or are you simply a clerk in a department? A. I am a clerk, but I know in general; I know nothing about how the mixing business is carried on; I have nothing to do with it; I do not know that it is done—I do not know that there are men kept for that purpose—I do not know that one quality of coal is mixed with another—I mean to say, on my oath, that I have never seen it done; I never heard of its being done; I do not believe it is done—my salary is 25s. a week—I am in Mr. Herbert Clarke's office.
HERBERT CLARKE . I am sole agent for the sale of coals on the part of the Great Northern Railway Company, and have filled that situation since last April. 1 know King—he was not employed or authorised by me to act
as agent of the company for the sale of coals; and I am the head of the coal department—I know Bates; he is a dealer with the company.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. I thought Mr. Coles Child was the manager? A. No; he has no connection with the company now—I succeeded him—a great many of our customers are dealers, who supply the coals afterwards; we have a great many of them in London—our coals, I believe, have great fame—I do not visit the dealers myself; we have collecting clerks—it is the common practice for dealers supplied by us to put up, "Great Northern Railway coals, "but they have no right to call themselves our agents—there are several dealers who represent themselves as agents of the Great Northern Railway Company, by calling themselves Great Northern coal companies, and other things: approaching to it as nearly as they can, to endeavour to mystify the public—the railway company never attempt to mystify the public, nor do I—we supply anybody, whether they mystify the public or no—I am sole agent for the sale of coal in London, and as far as Peterborough—I consider it wrong for King to call himself agent for the company, even if he bought the coals of us and sold them again.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Is that (produced) the letter you addressed to Mr. Willcocks? A. Yes, I believe so; it is not written by me, but by one of my clerks—it is acknowledging the order, and fixing the day for executing it—the price, delivered, of Walls-end coals at that time, 27th Oct., was 1l. 8s.; but the books are in Court—the price of Hartley coals, at the station, is 17s.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is a clerk, named Bowen, here? A. A foreman, named Bowen, is—he does not mix the coals at the station at all—they are mixed; there are four pits of Silkstone coals, and we do not keep them separate—they are all sold at the same price—I will not say whether they are all equally good—one man will ask for coals from one pit, and one from another, when they write for coals, and we generally give them the mixture, but they are all Silkstone coals—there is not a difference of 10s. between the price of the best pit and the worst; but the value is a matter of opinion—there is not the same difference that there is between Barnsley and Silkstone—I cannot explain to you what the difference is exactly; all the Silkstone coals are better than the Barnsley—I cannot tell you the difference between the worst Silkstone pit and the best; I mean to swear that—I do not know what the difference in price is—it is not 8s. or 10s. or 7s. or 8s., and, I should think, not 5s. or 6s.—I have not said that when customers send for the best pit, we give them a mixture with the worst—we have so many pits set apart for Silkstone coals, and we shoot them all together—we do not undertake to serve customers from any particular pit—we do not tell them at the time that it is a mixture; it is all Silkstone coal—I am not aware that I have said that we mix inferior coal with the good.
COURT. Q. I understood you to say so? A. No; I said that there was a difference between the Barnsley coal.
Q. You said that there was not a difference of 10s., but that there might be of 5s. or 6s.? A. I did not understand the question—there may be a difference of 5s. or 6s. at least between the value of some pits of Silkstones and other pits of Silkstones—I am not a coal merchant; I am the servant of the company.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When I, or my Lord, or the gentlemen of the Jury, send for the Silkstone coal, you give them a mixture? A. Yes—we do not
tell them so—I do not call that obtaining money by false pretences, because it is all Silkstone—it is obtaining money by false pretences, if we sell Barnsley for Silkstone.
COURT. Q. When a customer writes for a particular coal by name, you give him a mixed coal, do you inform your customer of that? A. No.
COURT. Then it is a very dishonest practice. Witness. I cannot see the dishonesty of it; we sell the particular coal which he sends for—all our advertisements specify the names of the coal, but we cannot specify the pits.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do you mean to say that it is only the Silkstone coals that you mix? A. We do not always undertake to sell Wallsend coals from any particular pit; if you ask anybody acquainted with the coal trade, they will tell you that there are a great many different Wallsend coals; Wallsend is almost a conventional term—for Wallsend, we generally send out the Earl of Durham's coal, the Lambton coal—if anybody sends for Lambton coal, we generally send it out, but not always—we do not tell them so—that is not a false pretence, because we do not profess always to sell Lambton coal; we sell Wallsend—there are, I believe, instances in which we have done so, but we have not told the customer so—on my oath, we never mix Barnsley with Lambton coal—Bowen is here; he is not employed to mix coals; I swear that—he has never been employed to do so that I am aware of; not by me—I must explain to you that the coals are not actually mixed; there are different bays, and the coals are sometimes shot side by side—Bowen is not directed to mix coals—I am not afraid of being contradicted—on second thoughts, I think he may have been employed to mix coals—I have not much temper, my lord, I cannot be bullied.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You say he may have been employed; do not you know it? A. No, I cannot say that he has; I think that he has.
COURT. Q. It is my duty to warn you that you are in some peril if you prevaricate? A. I do not prevaricate; as a general practice, he is not so employed.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do not you know it? A. I think there are cases in which he has been employed to mix them—I do not know it.
Q. Then you never gave the order yourself? A. I think I have—I wish to be very particular in what I answer, but I am not allowed much latitude of explanation; he has had instructions—I gave him the instructions—I have said that I have ordered Silkstone coals to be mixed, and I believe also, sometimes, Wallsend—I have given that order myself to Bowen, or to the wharf clerk—I know of a man named Murray; I have heard of him—I have been a great many things—I came from Australia last; from Port Philip—I was digging there—I went out to be a sheep farmer, in Dec. 1851—before that I was manager of the South Devon Railway; I left there; I resigned, because I was tired of it, and because I wanted to go to Australia—I was manager five years and a half—before that I was commercial traveller to my uncle—I was appointed to my present situation by the Board; I have a salary, to manage on their behalf; I have no commission—I do not know whether or not the Directors know that we mix the coals—there is a difference between Barnsley and Hartley coals; they come from the same county, York, but the arrangements in the north are not made by me—the Hartley coals are never mixed—I never send Barnsley coals when Hartleys are sent for, without specifying that they are Barnsley, and that they are a different price; I have never sent out one description of coal for
another, intentionally; I cannot answer for what error any clerk may have made—I see perfectly well that I am thoroughly misunderstood; his lord-ship has said that my examination has been a disgrace to me; what I say to you I am telling you on oath; that appearance of prevarication was occasioned by my fear and dread of saying what is not the case—I do not know that Bowen has sent out Barnsley coals when Hartleys have been sent for—I have not given directions for that.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Have you any interest whatever in the amount of business done by the Company in coals? A. None—the pits are not the Company's property; they carry the coal to London, acting as agents for the pit owners in the north—coal has not been sent out of a different description to that given of it in the document which accompanied it, unless it was done by a mistake of a clerk—there are different degrees of the coal bearing the name of Silkstone, and different pits which bear the name of Wallsend—I have never sent out Silkstone for Wallsend, or Hartley for Barnsley—I am paid by salary entirely.
JEREMIAH LOCKERBY (policeman, S 123). I produce samples of coal from Mr. Willcock's, Mr. Eastoe's, and Mr. Veitch's houses—in consequence of directions I received, I went, in the early part of Nov., to No. 28, Bid-borough-street, to apprehend King, but could not find him—I was searching for him from 3rd Nov. to the 30th, when I took him into custody at No. 23, Clarendon-street, Somers-town—I went, on the evening of 5th Dec., to the defendant Bates, with Williams, the inspector of the Great Northern Railway line; he is a constable attached to the railway—it was after King had been taken—I called Bates out of a back room, and Williams produced a printed form, which had been delivered with Mr. Eastoe's coals—Williams asked Bates who gave his foreman that form; Bates said, "I did"—he asked who gave it to him; Bates said, "Mr. King"—he was asked whose writing was on the face of it; he said, "Mine"—Williams said, "Did you write the signature of King?"—he said, "I dare say I did; but it is so long ago, I can scarcely recollect"—Williams then showed him the book, and said, "Who wrote those words, '1 ton, the 26th, before 11 o'clock'?"—he said that he thought that was King's—King then came out of a back room of the house, passed us, and went up the street; he was out on bail at that time—he had been bailed by Bates, I believe—they were not both charged at that time—Bates was not under charge, but he was ultimately summoned to attend the Court as a defendant—on Sunday, 26th Nov., I saw Bates in the street—I knew him before—I had been told by another con-stable that he wished to see me—he asked me if I could not assist in settling this affair of King's—I told him that 1 believed the parties had written a letter for the purpose of settling it; but, before that, he told me that if I could do so, I could put 1l. in my pocket; and I was to meet him and Mrs. King the following evening, Monday—next day I went to Mr. Williams, and told him what Bates had. said to me; and whatever I did afterwards, was with the cognizance of Williams—I went to the authorities of Clerkenwell Police Court—I met Bates and Mrs. King' on the Monday evening, and walked with them as far as Mary-street, and saw them go in at Mr. Willcocks' door—I saw them come out again, and Bates said that they could not settle with Mrs. Willcocks, that they had settled with Mrs. Eastoe, and told me that I could have 2l. for my trouble—this was all before Bates had been charged—on the evening of 1st Dec., the day after I took King into custody, I saw Bates at his house, No. 42, Seymour-street—he told me that he had advised King to go away, but he thought it would have been better for him
to have stopped, and that it was a bad job—I forget whether it was that time, but I think it was, that Bates said that he thought it was a case of obtaining money by false pretences; and he said that he should be well defended, and should have a good counsel, one of the best that could be got.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When this first 1l. was offered to you, you did not take it, I suppose? A. No; I told him I believed the parties had written for the purpose of settling it, and I said that I would see the parties—I did not intend to convey to him that I would lend myself to a settlement—I meant to convey that I would see the parties, and by that means I might be enabled to apprehend the prisoner King—I did not mean to convey that to them; I thought that Bates might think, at the time, that I would take the 1l., and by his thinking so I might be able to apprehend King—it was not what we call a trap—that was not by Mr. Mould's order—in the first instance, Mrs. Willcocks told me that Mr. King had sent to settle; I told him not to do so, and I went to Clerkenwell, and Mr. Mould said that he did not think it would make any difference, but advised me to see Mr. Williams and let him settle it; and he said that he had seen Mr. Humphreys, who said that it would make no difference—I was not laying a trap, certainly not: I considered that they were laying a trap for me—I induced them to think that I was open to a bribe—I also led King's wife to think so—I was not making her a party to the betrayal of her husband, but I saw that I should be better able to apprehend King; if Bates chose to introduce the wife, I could not help it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did not you go with him to the houses of the parties to settle? A. No; I went with them as far as the street, and employed two parties to watch—I did not advise them to go and settle—I told them they could do so if they liked.
HENRY EDWARDS (policeman, S 128). On 5th Dec. I had a conversation with King—he asked me how I thought he should get on on the morrow—I said, "I do not know"—he said, "If Bates had sent in better coal I should not have been In this trouble, but he is over grabbing; he had as much to do with it as I have, but I have got to bear all the blame."
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Have you been examined before? A. No—this is the first time the prisoners have heard of this conversation.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Were you before the Magistrate? A. I was there-, but the solicitor did not think fit to call me—I had mentioned this conversation at that time—Mr. Mould did not say that it was not necessary for me to be examined—I had no conversation with him—King said that if Bates had sent in better coal, he should not have been in that trouble, but he was over grabbing, and that Bates had as much to do with it as he had, but he had to bear all the blame—I mentioned that to Lockerby the same night, and I believe I mentioned it to the superintendent of the railway—I did not say that I mentioned it to the attorney.
PETER MARTIN MIDDLEMAN I live at Doncaster, and am mineral agent for the Great Northern Railway Company. I am acquainted with the different qualities of coal which the counties of Yorkshire and Durham produce—I have examined the specimens shown to me by Lockerby; they are Barnsley and Hartley—Mr. Willcocks' are of two kinds, Barnsley and Hartley—Mrs. Eastoe's are much about the same; there is the same mixture
—there was no Silkstone coal among them at all, nor any Wallsend—Barnsley coal is dearer than Hartley.
COURT. Q. Where is Hartley? A. In the West Riding—Barnsley coal is somewhere about 18d. a ton better than Hartley.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How many pits are there from which the Silkstone coal comes? A. Three—they are all the same quality there is no difference in the kind of coal—there are more than three pits, but there are only three which the Company get their coals from—there are three collieries in the Barnsley district—there may be half a dozen shafts—none of the real Silkstone are of an inferior quality.
COURT. Q. Is there good Silkstone and bad Silkstone? A. Yes—I do not know whether any of the inferior is brought up by our railway—I know what does come up, it is all from the best pits.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is there none of an inferior quality? A. No, it is all good coal—all the Silkstone coal brought up by the Great Northern Railway is not from the same beds, but it is all of the same quality—it is all of equal value—I swear that all the Silkstone coal, and all coal coming from the Silkstone pits, is of the same quality and of the same value.
COURT. Q. Give me the names of the pits? A. Newton's, Chansworth's Thorncliff colliery, and Clark's Silkstone; that is at Silkstone, near the village of Silkstone—Chansworth is nearer Bamsley—these are all allowed to be of the same quality—the Thorncliff coal is a little larger, but it is of the same value.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. If the coal has been mixed with an inferior quality it cannot be Silkstone? A. I know nothing about what is done in London—I do not know that there is any such difference as 5s. or 6*. a ton; I should say not, and to the best of my knowledge I will swear that there is not—Silkstone coals cost about 10*. at the mouth of the pit, the beat quality, but I cannot speak correctly.
ALEXANDER NAPIER . I am a printer, of Seymour-street, Euston-square. I printed 1,000 of these forms—I received the order from Bates, for Mr. King—he told me that they were for King, and expressed his regret that he was not earlier in recommending me to Mr. King, as he had had 1,000 cards printed—I sent my boy to Mr. Bates with the forms, and he brought me back the money, 8s.—that was on 23rd Sept.
FREDERICK BROWN . I am the landlord of No. 28, Bedborough-street, King's-cross. King had the first floor back, and after that he had the back parlour—no other person named King lived in the house—he lived there between two and three months, and left about the last Monday in Nov,—I often did not see him for two or three weeks together, and I think that was the case the two or three weeks before the termination of his tenancy.
MARTHA LEE . I live at No. 23, Clarendon-street, Somers-town. King came to lodge there in Nov., the 23rd, I think—he referred me for his character to Mr. Bates, of Seymour-street—I saw Mr. Bates, who said that the Kings were very respectable people, and in consequence of that I let them come in.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. I hope you did not find them otherwise than respectable? A. No.
MR. BALLANTINE to HERBERT CLARKE. Q. Is Bowen still in the service of the Company? A. Yes; he is outside—(MR. BODKIN stated that he had no such witness on his brief.)
(The prisoners received good characters.)
(MR. PARRY submitted that there was no case to go to the Jury against
King, as there was no evidence of his having received a farthing of the money, and the evidence only amounted to a misrepresentation, for which he would be civilly liable. The COURT considered that he might be so connected with Bates as to make him his agent; and left the case to the Jury. The JURY, after an hour's consultation, stated that they were unable to agree; upon which the COURT, with the consent of Mr. Giffard, and of Mr. Lewis, the attorney for the prisoners, discharged the Jury from giving any verdict. The prisoners were discharged upon their own recognizances.
NEW COURT.—Friday, February 2nd, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. WIRE, and MR. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
MR. CARTER conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES FRANCIS REHDEN . I am a collector, and live at No. 8, Powell-street West, Goswell-road—I collect money for one house in particular—on Saturday, 13th Jan., I had been out collecting, and in the evening I was in the Green Gate public house, at the corner of Bath-street, City-road—I went with a friend to fetch a gentleman out—I drank some rum and water and some ale—a few minutes before 12 o'clock the landlord called out, "Now, gentlemen, it's time to close, "and two of the persons who were there, Hitchings and Prior, asked me to lend them some money—they both said, "Lend me two or three shillings"; I pulled out some gold and silver loose in my hand—I saw the prisoner, Brown, close by me; he was touching my right arm at the time—T took my money out of my pocket; he was in such a position that he could see the money in my hand—I took out a few shillings and lent it, and put the remainder back in my pocket—after that I had some rum and water—I continued there seven or eight minutes, or ten minutes; I took no account of it—I then left the house in company with a female; in fact, all came out—we went across towards the doctor's, at the other corner—we crossed for the purpose of avoiding the people on the left hand, to go round and come into the City-road—as we crossed, we went through the posts, and there is a piece of vacant ground—I did not see Brown outside amongst the people—in passing through the posts we were pushed against the posts—the people seemed to fall against us; no one did anything to us there—we crossed the road to have some supper—we had no sooner crossed, than they all rushed against us—my friend asked what they wanted, and I wanted to know what they wanted—four or five came and pressed on us, and the prisoner, Brown, struck me on the arm and the eye—I had not struck any of those persons at that time; I did afterwards strike all I could strike—the first blows I had were on the arm and eye—my coat was torn down the pocket; my coat was buttoned over my trowsers pocket—it was a loose coat or cape; any person pulling it would get it open—Brown pulled my coat—I saw Home; he was the man that was fighting anybody; he tried to fight me—I took hold of Brown then; I laid hold of his arm—several persons called "Police!"and some called "Murder!"—the policeman came up while I was holding Brown—
I said, "I charge this man for striking me, and attempting to rob me"—I was as sober as I am now—Brown appeared sober.
Cross-examined by TALFOURD SALTER. Q. Are you called by any other name? A. Yes; "One armed Charley"—parties 1 have met at the Eagle and the Green Gate have called me so—I never answered to the name of Flash Charley—I am in the habit of going to that house—I collect for a wholesale colonial broker's; I have collected for them on and off for thirteen years—I had under 20l. in my pocket that night—I am in the habit of carrying money about me on Saturday evenings, a great deal more than that—I think I went to this house about ten minutes or a quarter past 11 o'clock—I accompanied one friend there to fetch home two others—those persons all lodge where I do—I went to the house with Hitchings—there were two or three more associating with me there—I do not know their names—I was drinking with Mr. Hitchings and Mr. Prior—I went with one man, and was joined by two others; we were drinking together, and the female who was with me—I do not recollect any one else—that female came in about half past 11 o'clock—she came with a young man and an elderly female—there were four persons with me at the time I showed this handful of gold and silver—I was drinking about half an hour—when I left, Woodward was with me, and Hitchings and another female with him, Mr. Prior and two others; they were all in my company when I came out—they were all with me at the time that what I relate took place—none of them are here to day, except the female who was with me—there were lamps at the place where I was assaulted, but it was very dark—I could see anything—it was sufficiently light for me to see all those persons, but still it was very dark—there were a number of persons—I cannot say whether they were coming out of the Eagle Tavern—there were other persons there—I should think not a hundred—there were plenty of people, not a great crowd—Brown first struck me—he was behind me—I turned round, and he was before me when he struck me—I got by the rails to protect myself—I had not got to the rails before he struck me—I had not the opportunity—nothing had taken place between him and me before he struck me—I had three men in my company—Brown struck me on the arm, and tried to catch hold of me—some one called out "On to them!"meaning to me, and the three gentlemen who were with me—it was called out by one of the six or, seven who crossed the road on our footsteps—Brown struck me on the left arm and on the eye—he rushed in to me three or four times—he struck me with his fist—I spoke about my eye at the police court, and produced my coat and waistcoat, which were torn—I have been charged myself, in connection with my uncle, but was discharged by the Jury—it was a charge of receiving stolen goods—I was never charged with felony—I have been to Worship-street on a charge of assault on a policeman, with striking him—I was fined 3l., or one month—the money has been offered me back by the policeman.
MR. CARTER. Q. When you left this public house, had a female hold of your arm? A. She had; she took hold of my arm at the door—she was the nearest to me—the other persons and I all went out of the house together.
MR. SALTER. Q. Do you know the female you were with? A. Yes; she is a lace worker—she is here, I fetched her—I have not talked with her about the evidence she was to give.
about half past 11 or 20 minutes to 12 o'clock; the prosecutor was there with two or three friends; I saw the prisoner Brown and several others—Brown was standing in front of the bar—I and the prosecutor left the house together—I went across Bath-street through the posts to the doctor's shop, and then crossed the City-road—when we first came out there was Brown, and several others round the house—we crossed the City-road, and the prosecutor turned to his friends to speak to them, and Brown and several others pressed round him, and Brown struck the prosecutor—I was at that time leaning on his arm—Brown struck him on the chest, and across the face and arm—the prosecutor had not interfered with them, in any way before that—I saw the prosecutor take some money out of his pocket—he took out gold and silver, and I said, "Why did you take out your money, when so many are round you?"—at that time Brown was close by—I saw Brown strike him on the chest, and across the face and the arm—I saw Home, he came up and rushed at him—the prosecutor laid hold of Brown to defend himself—the policeman came up at the time—the prosecutor was quite sober.
Cross-examined. Q. Who accompanied you to this public house? A. A female and her husband, and another person—I joined the prosecutor about half past 11 or 20 minutes to 12 o'clock—I had some rum and water—there were three other gentlemen with the prosecutor, at the time this money was produced—I do not know whether they were with him at the time this assault was committed—my friends were gone—they were going different roads—the prosecutor said he would see me home—when we got out, I saw the prisoner and several others—the place where this took place was rather dark—I saw Brown strike the prosecutor on the chest, the arm, and the face—I have before said, that I saw Brown strike him in the face—Brown was at that time in front of him—before the prosecutor was struck he turned round to look for his friends, and seeing the people he said, "What do you want with me?"—the people were then before him—after he was struck he put his hand on Brown's shoulder, and the policeman came up—Home was in the act of striking him, and the policeman took him—I have been in that public house once or twice since—I swear to the blows that were struck—there was nothing more done to the prosecutor.
WILLIAM HOPPER (policeman, N 358). I know the Green Grate public house—I was on duty in that neighbourhood on the night of 13th Jan.—I heard a disturbance about 12 o'clock, and a call of "Police!"—I ran up, and saw the prosecutor fighting with his stick—I saw Home; he was using bad language, and was in the act of rushing at him—I laid hold of his collar to prevent him—the prosecutor said, "I charge that man with assaulting me, and attempting to rob me"—Brown was at that time close by the prosecutor, and the prosecutor said, "Here is another) I charge him also"—in the mean time another officer came up, and took him—there were a great number of other men about—some of them followed us to the station—a great many made use of bad language—I saw nothing till after the assault was committed—the place was rather dark—it was on the Eagle side—there was a great crowd there.
CHARLES DYE (policeman,. K 418). I was on duty in the neighbourhood of the Green Gate, on 13th Jan.—I heard the cry of "Police!"—I went up, and saw the prosecutor—he had got his hand on Brown—he charged him with assaulting, and attempting to rob him.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
WILLIAM HUMPHREYS . I am a farmer, and live at Chingford. Last Thursday night, I went in my stable about half past 5 o'clock in the evening; I saw the prisoner who worked for me standing at the corn bin, in the act of filling his bag with oats—he had no business there—there was nothing for him to do at that time of night, and he had a candle which we never do have in the stable—he had no right at any time to go to the corn bin—I think he saw me, and he went to the chaff bin—he was then coming from the corn bin to go out—he had his bag in his hand—I said to him, "You did not eat your dinner to-day?"—he said, "No, I was not very well, I did not eat it"—I took hold of the bag, and said, "These are oats, where did you get them?"—he said, "At Cash's"—that is a corn chandler's—I said, "No, you took them out of the bin, I saw you"—he said, "That is a lie"—I took the fork to strike him, but he ran amongst the horses—I sent for an officer, but he did not come so fast as he should; I said I would go for him—I left my man at the door to mind the prisoner, but before I got out of the yard, he ran away—I know the oats to be mine—they were worth about 2d.
JOHN HAWTREY (policeman, N 423). I was sent for to take the prisoner—when I got to Mr. Humphreys' the prisoner had run away; I was looking for him all that evening—I did not apprehend him till the next morning; I told him he was charged with stealing oats—he said yes, be had stolen them.
Prisoner. I hope my master will forgive me.
GUILTY . Aged 16.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury and the Prosecutor.— Confined Fourteen Days.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD EVERINGTON . I am in the employ of Messrs. Peto, Betts, and Co., contractors; I am at present employed at the Victoria Docks. On Sat, 30th Dec. I gave a person, named Munday, 3l., and instructed him to send the prisoner to the Great Western Railway to fetch some goods—he was to pay the carriage, whatever it amounted to—just after he left, we received this invoice (produced) from the Great Western Railway, by which it appears that the sum to be paid was 1l. 7s. 5d.—on the prisoner's return he produced this receipt to me (produced), and paid me 1l. 2s. 7d. deducting 1l. 17s. 5d. as having been paid by him—the very same goods are specified in this invoice—I said that I had received an invoice that morning, stating that there was 1l. 7s. 8d. to pay; he said he "believed he had paid 1l. 17s. 5d., and gave me the receipt—in consequence of inquiries I made at the Railway, I gave him into custody—going to the police court, I asked him whether the receipt had gone from his hands after he left the station—he said, "No."
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long has the prisoner been in the employment of Messrs. Peto and Co.? A. Twelve months—the money
was given to him in ignorance of how much the charge would be—this occurred on Saturday, and he was taken into custody on the following Tuesday.
WILLIAM CECIL PENN . I am a clerk at the Great Western Railway Station, at Paddington. On Saturday, 30th Dec, I received this receipt, but not in the state in which it is now—here is a "1" placed before the figure "7," and "teen" after the word "seven"—this other was a counter-part of it—I only received 1l. 7s. 5d.—there is not the slightest doubt but that the alteration has been made since it left the station.
Cross-examined. Q. You are not in a condition to identify the prisoner as the person? A. No, not positively—these receipts are written out in a book similar to a cheque book, and left out to be given to the persons when they call, and the clerk signs them—Mr. Penn and myself are the only clerks—we relieve each other—this signature is mine—it may not have been delivered by the other clerk, we have to account for the whole of the money we sign for—I cannot say who the person was that I gave this receipt to.
MR. METCALFE. Did you take this other receipt also? A. I issued it—the person did not sign it in my presence, but in that of the warehouseman—I gave the receipt to the person from whom I received the money, and I believe I gave change to the person.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
291. JAMES COLLINS , stealing on 20th Jan., at Little Ilford, 1 pewter pot, value 1s., the goods of James Wood: also, stealing at West Ham, 1 pewter pot, value 1s., the goods of James Appleford: to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
(There were two similar indictments against the prisoner.)
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
ELLEN TURNER . I am in the service of Mr. Mills, of Holly-lane, New Kent-road. On 28th Nov., I sent a parcel by the prisoner, who is a carrier, for which he gave me this receipt (produced)—here is "Paid, C. Wadham," on it—I gave him 16s. 9 1/2 d. for the laundress—he gave me change for a sovereign.
SAMUEL ROGERS . I am a carrier of Woolwich—the prisoner has been in my service not exceeding two months—he was so on 28th Nov., 13th Dec, and 17th Dec.—he had charge of a horse and cart—it was his duty to book all parcels received, and account for them—he calls them out on
his paper, and I enter them in a book—it is his duty to do that on the following morning—on the morning of 29th Nov., he went over his account with me, and I wrote down in my book all the amounts which he stated that he had received—he gave me 16s. 9 1/2 d. for the laundress—he did not account with me on 14th Dec. for the money received on 13th—he never entered the things—this (produced) is his cash book—he has not entered here 3s. received on 13th Dec, or 10s. on 18th Dec.—I made the entries from his statement—he gave me no account whatever of having received the money, and never stated to me that he had had these goods to carry—it was his duty to enter them on a list, and call them over to me—he did not call them over—he remained in my service up to 26th Dec.
Prisoner. I have been imprisoned ever since that date—I have offered to work the money out with my employer, but he said that he would make an example of me. Witness. There are several parcels which are not accounted for.
JOHN NEWELL (policeman, R 340). On 26th Dec. I took the prisoner, and told him he was charged with receiving money on account of his master, and not accounting for it; he said that he had done so, and he thought it was about 24s.
Prisoner. The 24s. I told you I was behind, was money which I was indebted to my employer, and nothing to do with the charge I am upon now.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Nine Months.
ELIZABETH MARTIN . I am the wife of William Martin, who keeps a marine store shop, in South-street, Greenwich. On Saturday, 23rd Dec, I was ironing some linen in the back parlour, about 10 o'clock in the evening—I saw my husband's silver watch on the mantelpiece at that time—the prisoner came through the shop into the parlour, and asked me where my husband was—I said that he was at the greengrocer's round the corner, and if he wanted to see him I would send for him—I sent for him, and the prisoner waited at the shop door, and asked for something to drink—he was in the parlour about five minutes—he placed himself before the fire, and was within reach of the watch—nobody else was in the room—I had sent the child for my husband—I missed the watch about ten minutes afterwards—I had not left the room since seeing it safe, and nobody but the prisoner had been in.
WILLIAM MARTIN . I am the husband of the last witness. On Saturday, 23rd Dec., a little child was sent for me—I went to my shop, and met the prisoner by the counter—I had frequently seen him go backwards and forwards past my door—he asked me if I would come and have a drop of something to drink with him—I said, "No"—he said, "Do not go in doors; come and have a drop of something to drink"—I said, "No, thank you; on account of Christmas being so near, I will not have any now"—I went in doors, and in a minute or two missed my watch off the mantelpiece—I went in search of the prisoner, and found him between 11 and 12 o'clock on Sunday morning, and gave him into custody.
Prisoner. Q. When I met you in the shop did not I tell you I had got some old things for sale, and did not you buy them of me? A. I did not; you did not offer me any.
Prisoners Defence. It is only a shed; I went to the door of it, and asked for her husband; I asked him to buy some things; he said, "No," and
I asked him to have something to drink; I do not know anything of the watch.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
WILLIAM FORD (policeman, R 225). I produce a certificate—(read—Central Criminal Court; William Stagg, convicted June, 1852, of stealing a coat; Confined eight month)—I had him in custody, and was present at the trial—the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY, † Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
WILSON PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.
BOOKING PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.
Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
JOHN STONE . I am a linendraper, in Richard-street, Woolwich. I remember the prisoner coming to the shop on 6th Jan.—she asked to look at a bonnet—I showed her some—she selected one, and purchased it—there was another person with her—one of them paid for it—the prisoner then asked for some ribbon—there was one yard of ribbon purchased, which was also paid for, I believe by the other party; I will not be quite positive—the prisoner then asked for some stockings; but after having shown her the ribbons, I missed one piece—I showed her the stockings; but previous to showing her them, I marked how many there were—she did not like them, and I showed her some more; and on putting them away, I found there was one pair gone from each paper, and she had only paid for one pair—I directed one of my young men to get an officer, and I went on showing her some belts and other things—they then wanted ribbons again—I showed them one drawer, and they did not like that—I showed them another, and I missed one piece of ribbon from that drawer—I missed, in all, two pieces of ribbon and one pair of stockings—I was positive about the stockings, because I marked them.
Prisoner. It was the other party paid 2s. 11 1/2 d.; I did not purchase anything.
THOMAS BARNES THOMPSON (police sergeant, R 12). I was called into Mr. Stone's, and the prisoner was given into my custody—I found a pair of stockings on the ground, between the prisoner and the counter, and one roll of ribbon partly attached to her dress, and partly on the ground—the roll was on the ground, and the ribbon attached to her; whether in her pocket or the folds of her dress, I cannot tell—this other ribbon I found
on the top of this basket, which the prisoner said belonged to her—I asked her if she had anything else belonging to Mr. Stone; she said, "No"—I felt outside her dress, and felt something in her pocket—I put my hand in, and found this belt—she had a baby sitting on the counter.
COURT to JOHN STONE. Q. Are these the stockings you missed? A. Yes—these are not the ribbons I sold her—that was not on a block—they bought one belt, but that was quite a different one to this—this belt has my young man's mark on it—I know the mark quite well—he is a brother of mine—the belt I sold was quite different to this—it was leather, and this is glazed linen—it was quite a different fastening to this—the other woman had got the belt which she had bought, but she was not detained—there was nothing found on her—the ribbons and stockings had been shown to them two or three yards from the place where these things were found—the other woman did not appear to me to be in liquor.
Prisoner's Defence. I went to the shop with Mrs. Tyrrell; she being a little intoxicated, I was anxious to pay her a little attention; she purchased a belt; I went to the end of the counter, and saw a similar belt on the counter; I said, "Your belt has not been made up with the other things, I will put it in my pocket for you"; Mr. Stone gave me into custody.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
JAMES STRACHAN . I am seaman's schoolmaster, on board the Albion, which is lying off Woolwich. The prisoner was a marine on board—on 27th Dec. I had two sovereigns—I put them into a cap which was a little way from me on the deck, between 10 and 11 o'clock in the evening—I was asleep, when the prisoner came and woke me up—I was sober—it is a general rule to lie down and go to sleep on the deck—the prisoner did not wake me—(The witness appeared to be ill, and the COURT desired that he should be taken into the air, and a medical gentleman who happened to be present was requested to attend him).
JOHN JONES . I am a corporal in the Marines. I know that the last witness has been complaining the last two or three days of a violent cold—I was on board the Albion on 5th Jan.—I went to the prisoner with the last witness—I asked him if he knew anything of the sovereign that was lost—he said he had taken the sovereign, and he would pay it back again the first chance he had.
Prisoner. I deny having said that I took the sovereign. Witness. He said he took the sovereign from him, and he would pay it back the first chance he had.,
JAMES GROVE (policeman, 397 R). I took the prisoner on the 10th Jan., about 3 o'clock, on board the Albion, lying in the Thames, off Woolwich dockyard—I told the prisoner he must go to the station with me, he was charged with stealing money—he said, "I know I be."
(The medical gentleman who had attended the witness, Strachan, stated that the witness would not beable to resume his evidence at present; he was afraid he was under the influence of drink. The COURT thought it would be hardly satisfactory to depend on his evidence if he did come.)
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. BALLANTINE and ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK GREENWOOD HALES . I reside in Grove street, Camdentown; I am a carpenter and turner. I know the prisoner—I first saw him about the 12th Sept.—I went then to where he resided, at No. 42, King-street, Woolwich—I was first introduced to him by a man of the name of Thompson—the prisoner said to me, "You are the party that wants to go to Australia, are you not?"—I told him I was—he asked me what I was—I told him I was a carpenter and turner—he asked if I was married—I told him I was, and I had three children—he asked me their ages—I told him a little girl six years old next birth day, a little boy three years of age, and another little boy about sixteen months—I asked him if he could get me out—he said, "Oh, yes," and he gave me a printed form—there was nothing done at that time with that form; it was not written on, it was folded up—he asked for a sovereign, and I paid it—nothing further was said with respect to the price at that time—he told me to take that form home, and fill it up according to the directions on it, and bring it to him in about a week's time—I filled up that form, and went to him about a week afterwards myself, along with a man of the name of Hindes—I took the printed form which I had filled up, with me—I gave it to the prisoner—he looked at it, and said it was filled up incorrectly, on account of my name—there was a mistake in my name, and he gave me another one to fill up, and said I was to send it down to him as soon as I could—but then there were three of us wished to go, and it was agreed I should act for them—there were three families, myself, my wife, and children; Learmond, and his wife and family; and Hindes and his family—that was mentioned to the prisoner on the second occasion—I mentioned it to him myself—I said, "Now, Sir, let us understand: what have we to pay you to get us out?"(the other persons had had an introduction to him, and he had given them a form the same as me)—I said, "What have we to pay you to get us out?"—he said, "Let me see, how many of you are there going?"—I told him the three families, that was Hindes, and myself, and Learmond—I told him how many there were, and I said, "There was something said about 20l"—he considered for half a minute, and he said, "Yes, that will do"—he said, "I would rather treat with you than a good many, and I will look to you for the money"—I had 2l. with me, and he said, "You make me up 5l. now, and the other 5l. when I obtain for you what is called an approval order, and the other 10l. when I obtain for you the embarkation order"—I said to him, "1l. I paid you when I got the form, Learmond has paid you 1l., which I paid you myself, and Hindes 1l., and here are 2l., which makes 5l. "—previous to paying the 2l., I asked if he had authority to get us out, and he said, "I have sufficient influence to do all I say I will do, and all I promise you"—there were two different papers given me to fill up—this is the last one (looking at it)—he could not have the other, because I destroyed that myself—at the time he gave me the second form, he said he had influence to get me out—the form was to be directed to S. Walcott, Esq., Park-street, Westminster—he did not mention the Commissioners, or Park-street, before I paid the 2l., but afterwards—he said that he could send me—he did not say anything about having authority to receive any money; no more than he said he could do it and he would do it—he did not say he had authority to receive money—I saw him again after the second interview—he said I was to see him again in a week or ten days—I filled up the form and sent it to him by post—I did not post it myself, but this is the form—I saw him again in about a week or ten days, at Woolwich—I always saw him at Woolwich—he told me that my
paper was right, I should go—I told him I thought I could not go—he said, "Why not?"—I told him I had three children under seven years of age—I he said, "That is all nonsense; I will make that right"—he then turned round and took a memorandum book off the sofa, or some place, and he said, "Mr. Bishop," or "Mr. Bailey has passed you all; you, Learmond, and Hindes, and you are all right."
Q. Did he say anything about the number of persons who were waiting for turns? A. Yes—one and another were talking, and I said, "How is it we can get out?" and he said, "If you apply to Park-street, in the ordinary way, you will have to wait your turn of 15,000 or 16,000"—he said if we paid him the money, he would get us out when we pleased—I believe he said that every time—he said it before he got the money—he said, on the first occasion, "Mark down on your paper the time you want to go"—I said I wanted to go about Feb.—he said, "That will do"—he said on the first occasion, "I can get you out any time you want to go "; and he asked me what time, and I said, "February"; and in the course of the same conversation he said, "I can get you out any time you want to go"—I believe nothing was said about our having to wait our turn of 15,000 or 16,000 on the first occasion—I believe that was on the second occasion—it was before I paid the 2l., because directly I paid the 2l. we came away—he told me to destroy the first form—on the bottom of this second form here is, "Wish to embark at the end of Feb., 1855"; that is my wife's writing—the first form was filled up just as this is—I can swear that "Wish to embark at the end of Feb., 1855," was on the first form—I wrote it myself—on the second occasion he said, if we applied to Park-street, we should have to wait our turn of 15,000 or 16,000, and it would take us two years, as all these applications were before us.
Q. What induced you to pay him the 2l.? A. I was introduced to the prisoner by Thompson.
Q. But what representation of the prisoner was it that induced you to pay that 2l.?A. He did not represent anything, he only said that he could do it—that was the whole and sole reason—I paid the 2l., because I knew that he had got other men out, and he said he would get me out in the same way—I took his word for it, and paid him the money—he said he would do all that he promised to do, he would get us out to Adelaide—it was his promise induced me to do it, certainly.
COURT. Q. What did you believe him to be? A. A gentleman—I did not at that time believe him to hold any office—I relied on his promise, and his saying he had influence and power to do it, and would do it.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. On the third or fourth occasion, having told you you were passed, did he say anything about the orders waiting? A. Yes, on the third occasion he said, "You are passed"—I then asked him when we could have our approval orders—he said, "When you like; they are all ready, waiting for you "; and he said we had to pay him our 5l.—I said, "Will it do if we come for them in about a week's time; we may have our 5l. ready by that time; can we have the approval orders?"—he said, "Yes," we could have them—I made some inquiries on a Saturday at the emigration office—I got some information—I saw the prisoner afterwards on 3rd Dec; I told him he had been deceiving us; he could not send us; he had no power to do it; "You have no power to get us out, "I think I said—that was on the Sunday—I told him the papers were not at Park-street; he had told me that they Were when he told me that they were waiting
for me, he told me they were at Park-street—I told him the papers were not at Park-street—he said it was all d—stuff, he had the power to send us, and he would send us; he had the power to do so, and would do so, in spite of the Commissioners, or anybody—he brought up some papers and said, "I have heard from the Commissioners in Park-street; I shall go up there to-morrow and set this right," and he would come round and fetch us all in a cab, and take us to Park-street—that was on the Sunday previous to his being apprehended—he did not come and fetch us—I did not see him again till he was in custody—I never paid him the second 5l.
Prisoner. Q. Before you came to me, had you seen me? A. No; I had heard of you from Thompson—he knowing that I had a wish to go to Australia, said, "I will take you to a man that can get you there"—I went to you in consequence of Thompson telling me that.
COURT. Q. Who is Thompson? A. A working man, a sawyer; he is gone to Australia.
Prisoner. Q. Do you know whether it was through my agency that Thompson went out? A. I only know what Thompson told me, that you got him out—I came to you with Thompson on the first occasion—it was on that first occasion that I came to you that you gave me the printed form—Thompson did not say in my presence, "This man wishes to go out in a similar manner to what we are going"—you did not point out to me on the form under what regulations persons would be sent out—the form was not opened—I never opened the form till I got home—you did not tell me to read it—you said, "Fill up that form, and bring it down with you in a week's time to me"—I read it when I got home—the form stated under what qualifications or regulations I would be taken out, and that was the reason I pointed out to you respecting the children—I told you I was not qualified, and you told me you could do it—I believe I pointed out that to you every time I saw you, because I had my doubts about it—after I had discovered it, I pointed it out to you, and you told me you would settle that—on the third occasion you told me I was passed—(at the prisoner's request the witness's deposition was here read)—I said on the first occasion that I was not eligible on account of having three children; that was after I had filled up the first paper—when I brought you the first paper I told you that—you took out a memorandum book, and told me Mr. Bailey or Mr. Bishop had passed me—it was an ordinary penny memorandum book—I think it had red covers, but not being sure I did not say so—I know it was an ordinary penny memorandum book.
Q. Your object was to employ me to get you to Australia 1A. My object was to go there—I went to you because I thought you could get me out—I did not know by what means—I took your word for it—you told me you could get me out—I went to you in consequence of what Thompson told me, that you could get me out—that was the reason I went to you—when I stated that my friends had paid you 2l., I meant that my friends Learmond and Hindes had paid you 2l., 1l. each—I believe Learmond and Hindes had applied to you previous to my coming—they told me they had been there—when I brought the first form to you, you told me it was incorrectly filled up—I applied to you in the name of Frederick Greenwood and the first form I filled up in the name of Frederick Greenwood—I signed the declaration attached to the form—you looked at me and said, "I thought your name was Hales"—I said, I thought it was no consequence; I was illegitimate—I took my marriage certificate on the second occasion,
but it was with the first paper that I took back that the name was Greenwood.
COURT. Q. Then you took the certificate on the second occasion? A. Yes; when I took the form back—on the certificate, the name is "Frederick Greenwood Hales," and in consequence of that, the defendant said my name was incorrect as Frederick Greenwood—I took Greenwood as a Christian name—I had not gone by the name of Frederick Greenwood Hales—I went by the name of Greenwood—my shopmates knowing me by the name of Greenwood, and Thompson knowing me by that name, I was introduced to the prisoner in that name.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not state to me that you had seen a letter from Mr. Bailey to Thompson, saying that if he did not pay me he could not go? A. I am certain I never did state that to you—I do not believe that I ever did state so—I did to Mr. Bailey.
Q. Did you not at my lodging say that you saw a letter from Mr. Bailey to Mr. Daniel Thompson saying, that if he did not pay me he could not go? A. I cannot say for certainty that I did or did not; I cannot recollect whether I said in course of conversation that I thought you must have great power, for I had seen a letter from Mr. Bailey to Thompson saying, that he could not let him go without he paid you—I do not recollect—when I first had the form, I paid you 1l.—I paid you 2l. afterwards which made 3l., and I then paid you 2l. more on account of the 20l. that was mentioned to get us all out—on account of the whole of us.
Q. Did you not understand that this was for my expenses and loss of time; going up to town and inquiring? A. No; I never understood any-thing of that sort—I gave you the 1l. to get us to Adelaide—I did not know for what services, or how you were to do it—you said you would get us to Adelaide, if we paid you that money.
Q. Did not the offer of paying me 20l. emanate from yourself, or did I demand 20l. from you? A. I said there was something said about 20l.; you said, "Yes; 20l. will do; I will get you out for 20l. "—it was about the 12th Sept. I first came to you—I do not know that you stated on the first occasion, that I should have to wait my turn of 15,000 or 16,000—you did on the second occasion, I will swear that.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do I understand you went by the name of Greenwood amongst your workpeople? A. Yes; but my certificate was in the name of Hales—my wife's relations found out more than I did, and I was compelled to be married in the name of Hales—I have been married eight years; but I have gone by the name of Greenwood—I was bound apprentice in the name of Greenwood, and persons who worked with me knew me by the name of Greenwood; but my wife went by the name of Hales—Hindes and Learmond were workpeople—they knew me by no other name than Greenwood, nor did Thompson.
Q. You have been asked whether you had seen a letter from Mr. Bailey, saying that he would not let Thompson go out, unless he paid the defendant? A. Yes; it was shown me by Thompson—he said, "Look here what I have got from Mr. Bailey," and he showed it me—the name of Bailey was signed to it, saying that if he did not call and pay the 2l. to Mr. Maturin, he should not go—Thompson told me that Maturin had got him out—my deposition, and what I stated on cross-examination is true to the best of my belief—there may be a little word or two altered—I said, on the second time I showed him the printed form and said I did not think I was eligible, because I had three children under seven—he said, "I can do
that," and laughed—he took out a book and said, "Mr. some name has passed you"—the first time he merely gave me the form—I signed the declaration after I had called his attention to the ages of the children, because he said it was all right, he could do it.
Prisoner. Q. On the Sunday did I not read to you a letter which I had received from the Commissioners? A. You read some long paper—I could not say what was in it—that was on the Sunday previous to your being given into custody—you did produce a letter, and said it was a letter you had had from the Commissioners at Park-street—that was on the Sunday before you were apprehended—you read it, and you read what you represented as your reply, but I do not know what was in it—I did not read the letter which Thompson told me he received from Mr. Bailey—Thompson came down with a letter in his hand, and said, "Look here, what I have received from Mr. Bailey"—I saw the name of Bailey on it—it was not a form—it was on a small sheet of note paper.
Prisoner. Q. Did you ever hear of Thompson, or know him at all? A. I know that a person of the name of Thompson went as an emigrant—I do not know that I ever saw him.
COURT to FREDERICK GREENWOOD HALES. Q. Just collect your mind, and answer me correctly this question; was it in consequence of the representations on the part of the defendant that he had power to get you out, or was it in consequence of the statements you heard from Thompson, that you paid him the 2l.? A. It was in consequence of what the defendant said himself, that he had the power to get me out—he said he bad the power—I did not believe him to be an authorized agent when I first went to him, nor when I paid him the 2l.
Q. What power did you believe him to have? A. I believed, certainly, that he could do it, because I knew that he had done it for others, or else I should not have gone to him.
Q. Was it because he had done it for others, or because he said he could do it, that you paid the money? A. It was both—I was not aware when I first applied to him that my family would make me ineligible—not till I took the form home.
ARCHIBALD LEARMOND . I reside in Upper Harland-street, Kentish-town, and am a carpenter. In September I was desirous to emigrate—I saw the defendant at his house, at Woolwich, about 12th Sept.—I was introduced by a person named Thompson—the defendant asked my age, my family, and my occupation—I told him I had a child two months old, and I had a boy nearly three years of age—I said, "Do you think there is any chance of my getting out?"—he said, "Certainly, you are eligible; I will send you out in spite of everything, or else I should not take your money"—there was nothing said that night about the pay he was-to have, but we paid him 2l., Hales and me, the first night—I paid him that, because Thompson had told me before—Thompson was with us—Thompson introduced me—he said, "This is Learmond, the party I told you about"—the prisoner said, "Take a seat"—I sat down, and he asked my age and my family's age—I said, "Am I eligible? can you send me out?"—he said, "Certainly, I will send you out in spite of everything"—he gave me some papers, one form for me and one for Greenwood Hales, and I. paid him 1l.—he said, "I will get you out in spite of everything, or else I should not take your money"—I paid
that pound became he told me he had sufficient influence and power to send me out, and he had a brother out there—he said that after I paid the money, and before also.
COURT. Q. Then he said it twice? A. Yes; he used that word "power," that he had power to send me out, before I paid my money.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. He told you you were eligible; was anything said even if you were not eligible? A. No, he said nothing about that—what induced me to part with my money, was his saying that he had power; and I knew very well that he had power, he was actually getting Thompson and some other fellow workmen of mine away—I only knew at that time that he was getting Thompson away, from what Thompson had told me—I knew it from what Mr. Maturin himself told me, but that was afterwards—I have told you the main substance of what took place on the first occasion—I saw him again about 1st Oct.; that was at Woolwich—I asked him about my approval orders; he said, "They are ready, whenever you are ready with your money"—he said, "Let me know when you are ready"—I told him I would—I had not raised the money then—I did not pay him any money on 1st Oct.—all the money I paid him was 1l. on the first occasion, with my own hand; but Greenwood Hales paid him 13s. on my account—it was the third time he told me it was through his influence Thompson was sent—I said, if he was not very sure of my getting out, I would not go on with this—he said, "You have got proof of it; I have sent Thompson, and I have sent Marsh, your shopmates."
COURT. Q. When was this? A. About 9th Nov.; I asked him for my approval orders—I had expected them before—I told him I was not going to part with my money, without I got my approval orders—I asked him, over again, if there was any chance of my getting out—I said he had put me to great expense and inconvenience, and I wished to know if he had power to send me away—he said, "Certainly, I have the power; you see I have; I sent out your shopmates; I sent Thompson, and I sent Marsh."
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you, at any time, pay him any money for Seamer? A. Yes; I paid him 2l. 10s. for Seamer, I think about 12th Nov.—that was in consequence of Seamer having directed me to do it, and giving me the money.
Prisoner. It was Thompson and yourself came to me. Witness. Yes; Hales was not with us—it was about 12th Sept.—I do not know whether Hales had been then—it was on the very first occasion you told me you had power or influence to take me out, or else you should not have had any money—I did not see you on 9th Nov., in consequence of your sending for me—you never wrote to me at all—I remember stating to you, on that day, that I was perfectly satisfied with what you had dope; but I cannot do so now—I did not go to the Emigration Office on 9th Nov.—I went into Park-street, but not into the office—you did not want me that day.
COURT. Q. Did he go into the office? A. Yes, he went in.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not, on one occasion, go with me to the Emigration Office? A. Yes; but that was about the 12th or 13th, for my application form—you went into the passage, and told me to go up stairs to one Mr. Bishop for my application form—you gave me a note to Mr. Bishop—I went up and delivered the note, and likewise my papers—I saw Mr. Bishop; he took them, and looked at them—you were not there at that time—you told me, if there was anything wrong, you would be over in Fendall's Hotel; I could get you there.
COURT. Q. That is in Palace-yard? A. Yes—there was a difficulty
about my papers, and I went to Fendall's, and found the defendant there—I said, "Mr. Maturin, Mr. Bishop says I must have more certificates, the certificates of my children and my wife" (the baptismal certificates)—the defendant said, "I will come along with you"—he went back along with me—he went up to Mr. Bishop's office—Mr. Bishop said he did not see anything against me, but it was out of his power, or any other man's, to offer me a passage—I said to the defendant, "I can't get the certificates of my wife and children so quickly as they are wanted"; and he said, "You can make an affidavit of their ages"; and Mr. Bishop said that was perfectly right, that would do as well as my certificates—I was not passed at all—I was told to get these certificates—Mr. Bishop did not say I was eligible; but he said he saw nothing against me, if I got my certificates or the affidavits—he said that neither he nor any other man had got any power to offer me a passage, until the Commissioners had given their consent.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not leave the office with me, perfectly satisfied? A. No; I felt a doubt—I did not express to you any doubt at that time—I do not recollect that you remarked to me that you returned money to some persons—I saw you pay 2l. to a man that you could not get away—he wished to go to Melbourne, I think, and you could not get him there, and you returned him 2l.—it was a man of the name of Peddy—that is all I remember.
Q. You wished to go in Feb., and I told you I was going to Wales—I told you if your application went in, you would have to go almost immediately; did you not state to Mr. Bishop you wished to go in Feb.? A. Yes—I do not remember being told about two men, that they would come round in turn, if you sent them in about six weeks' time—I said one day that I came on account of Greenwood Hales, because he had a bad leg.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Where was this money given back to Peddy? A. In Storey's-gate Hotel.
JOHN HENRY SEAMER . I am a sawyer—I live in Lea Bourne-road, Camden-town—I was working at Collard's—Hales and Learmond were working there—Thompson had worked there—I sent in an application to the Emigration Office, in Park-street, Westminster, and on 22nd Oct., I received a refusal order—from something I heard, I went on 29th Oct. to No. 42, King-street, Woolwich—I saw the defendant—he first sent his servant to know who it was—after a little waiting, another party came, and the defendant came down—he said to the other party, "Have you got your papers?"—he settled with that man, and then he said to me, "Are you the man that wants to see me"; I said, "Yes; I have come about a passage to Australia"—he asked me where I wanted to go; I told him to Sydney, but I said, "Before we go any further, I wish to state I have applied to Park-street, and received a refusal answer"—I opened the envelope and handed it to him; he took it from me, and laughed at it—he said, "Because there are so many applications, 15,000 or 16,000, there must be some refusals; they must refuse somebody, but you are the very party they want out there, having a wife and no family"—he took the order and said, "I will see into it"—I thanked him and was coming away, and he said, "Do you know what you will have to pay for going to Sydney?" I said, "Yes, 15l. according to the regulations—5l. to the commissioners, and 10l. within fourteen days after my arrival in the colony"—he said, "You had better go to Adelaide; you will only have to pay 2l., and I will give you a letter"; I said I thought it would not suit me so well—he said, "I have a brother there; I have influence"—I declined to go there, and he then
said, "You will pay me the 5l., as I have a percentage from the Government; 1' I told him I had noticed that nothing was said about paying the money in the form—he said, "Well, I can do nothing in it without the papers and the money; meet me to-morrow morning at my office in Park-street"—previous to my coming away he said, "By-the-by, it will be better to meet me between 1 and 2 o'clock, when the clerks go to lunch at Story's Hotel"; I was to meet him there—I went about a quarter before 1 o'clock, and had my marriage certificate and my wife's certificate—I said I could only raise him 1l., which I gave him; he said it was all d—d stuff, and he could do nothing without the remainder of the money, because he had got so many parties their approval and shipping orders, and they had never paid him the money—on 5th Nov. I went to his private house at Woolwich; I paid him 30s., and he gave me a new form—he told me it must be sent directly, as he was going to Wales; I filled it up, and sent it down to his house by post on 8th Nov.—this is the first form (looking at it) that I sent into Park-street; I got a refusal answer to this—this other is the form which I obtained from the prisoner, and sent him by post filled up—I had given him at Storey's-gate, and 30s. at Woolwich, because he told me he was authorised to take the to obtain my approval and embarkation orders—if he had not told me he was authorised, I should not have parted with my money; most decidedly not; I work too hard for it—I believed he was authorised by Government—on 12th Nov. I went to him again, and he told me I was passed, and that I must go directly—he told me he had my approval order, and everything ready for me, and I must go directly; I told him I was not ready—he got up and walked about the room, and said, "If you don't go it is not my fault, mind that"—I told him I would be ready when I obtained my orders, and he said, "Send the remainder of the money by Learmond; it will save your losing time"; I sent 2l. 10s. on 13th Nov.—I said to Learmond, "Here is 2l. 10s., don't part with that till you get my orders"—it was in the belief that the defend-ant had the orders, that I sent the money—I parted with everything, and sold every individual thing during that week, because he told me I was to go early in Dec.—I was not able to get my passage, and have never got any of my money back.
Prisoner. Q. Do Learmond and you work together? A. Yes, in various parts; it is all for one employer—when I went to you, you took up one of the forms and said, "A sawyer; you must be eligible, because it states so in the form"—you did not say there must be some mistake in my application; you laughed, and said there were so many applications, 15,000 or 16,000, there must be some refusals—I did not tell you I was ineligible, because I had worked at some machinery—I was not at that time aware that Learmond and others had applied to you; I was induced to come to you, because Thompson had worked there, and when I received my refusal order, many men spoke to me, and it was in consequence of that I went to ask advice—I knew nothing of you, I naturally thought you were a gentleman connected with Park-street, as you said that your office was there—I swear that you told me the first time that you bad an office in Park-street—you said, "At my office in Park-street," and as I was coming away you said it would be convenient to me to meet you at my dinner hour, and as the clerks went to lunch about 1 o'clock—I did not understand that the money I paid you was for your services—the second time you told me you were going to Wales immediately—you said you would inquire at the office the reason I did not go out—you told me that money was to be paid to
Government for my embarkation order, and you told me you had a per centage, and you were authorised to take the money for Government, because I pointed out the law on the paper—you told me when I brought the papers to Story's-gate that you could do nothing without the money, as so many had gone away without paying, and you mentioned the name of one—I remember coming to you, and you giving me a note to go to Park-street—that was on Sunday, the 26th Nov.—it was directed to Mr. Baynes, Esq.
COURT. Q. Did you take it to the person to whom it was directed? A. Yes, I did.
Prisoner. Q. Can you read? A. Yes; I think "W. Baynes, Esq." was on it—I remember you directing me to meet you at the Captain's Room at the Royal Exchange the next day—that was after I had taken the note—I recollect your stating that you had received a note from Park-street in reply; you showed it me—I did not read it—you read it to me, but you held your hand over the bottom.
COURT. Q. Did you afterwards read that note? A. Yes, on Sunday evening, the 3rd Dec.
Prisoner. Q. Did not the note state that your case would be taken into consideration in its regular turn? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. Was this before you had given the money to Learmond? A. No; it was on the 3rd Dec. I saw that note.
Prisoner. Q. Do you remember what I stated to you about my having got into a mess? A. When you came out of the Captain's room, you pulled a note out of your pocket, and it was sealed with a key—you said, "Do you know what this means?"—I said,"Secrecy, I suppose"—you said, "A d—pretty mess you got me in yesterday at the office; you keep as that key denotes next time, and keep yourself quiet"—I said if the key was turned, it would open—I said I did not know what mess I had got you in, what mess I had got you in was your own fault—you opened the letter and read it out to me, but there was so much traffic that I could not hear what it was—I told you I had reason to believe the note was a forgery, and you opened the note and showed me the postmark, and said, "Can there be any forgery in that?"—I said, "No, that is all right"—it was dated the 29th; I believe the postmark was the 30th.
Q. Did you not say, "If I have got you into a scrape it is all the fault of that little man, Mr. Baynes, for I took care to call him out to know that his name was Baynes, before I gave him your note?" A. No, I did not—you said, "I have done wrong in sending you to that fool, Baynes; I ought to have sent you to Bailey, for he has got your papers, and I will make him tremble"—you told me to be particular and give the note to Mr. Baynes—I did not tell you at the Royal Exchange that I had called Mr. Baynes out.
Q. Do you swear solemnly that you did not tell me that you were so particular that you called him out and inquired whether he was Mr. Baynes before you gave him the note? A. I asked him if he was Mr. Baynes, and he said he was, before I gave him the note—I do not know the gentleman's name—I think Mr. Kent received the note out of Mr. Baynes' hand, and then Mr. Cooper, and they all came round and read the note—Mr. Cooper and them advised me, after they had read the note, to get my money back, for you had no influence whatever—I told you on the 3rd Dec. that you had no authority whatever to obtain me a passage—you said you had—I said I had learned from Park-street that you had no authority.
COURT. Q. What did he say to that? A. He went on a great deal, and said, "To show you that I have authority I will show you this"—he opened
a portfolio, and produced a note which he read, but what it contained I do not know—that was on the rd Dec.—he said it came from Mr. Bishop, and it had all our names down—he said, "You see I have got all your names down who have applied at Park-street"—he read, he said, "To show you that I have authority I will read my brief"—he said the note came from Park-street, and they were surprised he was collecting emigrants at Woolwich, when he ought to have been at his post in Wales.
Prisoner. Q. Did I read a reply to that letter? A. You read a good many papers over—I remember your saying that was your reply, and you said you would fetch us in a cab—you said Mr. Kent had been down on Saturday night and brought you that letter—I did not seek your assistance as the others had done—you said on the first occasion that I was to pay you 5l., as you had a per centage from Government for obtaining emigrants.
COURT. Q. You gave Learmond directions not to part with your money without he got your order? A. I did—I would not have sent that 2l. 10s. by Learmond unless the defendant had told me that he had got my orders—I should not have sent that, nor have parted with my own.
COURT to ARCHIBALD LEARMOND. Q. How came you to part with this 2l. 10s.? A. I said, "Here is s. from Mr. Seamer, and he told me I was not to part with it without I got his approval"—I told him Seamer had told me not to part with the money without he gave me the order—he said, "That is all right; I have not time to write an acknowledgment for the money, but I will send it tomorrow the first thing"—he had got the money before that—he said, "You must give me the money before I can give you the approval order," as he had been taken in so often—he did not represent that he had got the approval, but that he could not get it till he had got the money.
Q. What were the words he said? A. He shuffled it off in this way—he did not come to any conclusion about giving me the order—I told him Seamer had desired me not to part with the money till I had got the order—he said, "The orders are all right, he shall have them," but he did not say when—I parted with the money on that.
Prisoner. As I would not work for nothing? Witness. Yes.
COURT. Q. Did he tell you he had not got the orders, or that he had the orders, but would not give them to you A. He did not give me any positive answer—he said, "I must have the money before I deliver up the orders"—I am sure he made use of that expression.
Prisoner. You put the. s. in my hand, and said, "Here is Seamer's money, give me his approval order." Witness. I told you, you had consented to give this order as soon as I brought down the a—you told; me you could not get the order till I gave the money, as you would not work for nothing.
SARAH LEE GREENWOOD HALES (examined by the prisoner). I remember coming to the Royal Exchange on one occasion, and your making a remark that Seamer had got you into a mess—I do not remember Seamer saying, "It was not my fault"—I stood on one side, you having told me you would speak to me in a few minutes—I remember you had a letter in your hand—I do not remember your reading that letter to Seamer—there were many gentlemen there, and I was the only female—I was confused at the time—I do not remember Seamer making any remark or saying anything about Mr. Baynes.
certain persons on cheaper terrace than they can emigrate themselves—we have certain restrictions respecting persons who emigrate; Seamer would not be eligible, country sawyers only are, and he had worked at the City Saw Mills; Seamer's application was to go to New South Wales—here is one of the regulations which was found in the prisoner's lodgings—the emigrant must be of those callings most in demand, which, at present, are country mechanics, such as masons, sawyers, wheelwrights, and gardeners; a sawyer in the City Saw Mills would not be eligible—I know the prisoner; on 3rd Oct. he was appointed an agent for collecting emigrants for the county of Carnarvon; he had no authority whatever to procure emigrants from Woolwich; his authority reached to Merionethshire, but would not reach to Woolwich—he applied to be appointed to select emigrants, and this answer was sent him: "Sir, with reference to your application for the appointment of selecting agent, I am directed to state that the Board will be happy to avail themselves of your services for selecting emigrants on the terms inclosed; the district within which your operations are to be carried on is the county of Carnarvon, &c.,"—(A copy of the regulations was here read, relating to the qualifications of persons intending to emigrate. The instructions to agents was also read; by the 10th rule of which the agent was directed on no account to promise a passage to any one, but to warn applicants that the fact of filling up the forms conferred no claims whatever to a free passage; the 16th rule directed that no agent should canvass for or select emigrants out of his own district; and by the 17th, he was forbidden to receive any fee or remuneration from any person except the Commissioners, in respect of the emigrants he might select.)—The prisoner had no connection with the office, except for the county of Carnarvon—he did not reside or have any office in Park-street—he had no right to receive money from any emigrant, he was expressly forbidden to do so—I returned from leave of absence about the end of Sept., and as soon as I returned I had the account taken, and the number of persons on our books at that time was something under 3,000, not 15,000—supposing any approval order had been given to Seamer, I should have known it—I am able to say, on my oath, that no order for embarkation or approval had been given to him—I am the person who would know if any such had come.
COURT. Q. Could an order for embarkation or approval have issued from your office without yourself, or some of the gentlemen who are here now, knowing it? A. They must have known it—the date of the defendant's appointment was the 3rd of Oct.—some of these transactions began before he was appointed, and some after—he was desired to go to Wales, but from time to time we received excuses that he was not able to go.
CHARLES CHURCH BAILEY re-examined. The prisoner had an appointment for Carnarvon—I heard he was not gone, and I said to him that it was very desirable that he should go and attend to his duty—he said that he was going in a few days—he had no authority to act for Woolwich as an agent—he had no right to receive money—I believe no approval order was issued for Seamer—he had been refused, and no approval order was afterwards issued.
WALTER BAYNES . I am a clerk in the Emigration Office. I know the prisoner—this letter is his handwriting—(read: "Dear Baynes,—The bearer, John Seamer, is the man I spoke to you about, whose papers I inclose. Will you let him go as soon as possible?")—this letter was brought to me by Seamer—the prisoner had never spoken to me about Seamer.
Prisoner. Q. Do you remember addressing a note to me? A. Yes; I
believe I can recollect what the contents were: "Sir,—I do not recollect ever having spoken to you about Seamer, or any other emigrant If the man has applied, the case will be treated in the usual manner, and in its turn"—that, to the best of my belief, was every word in the note.
Prisoner. Q. Are you aware whether any persons proceeded to Australia through my agency? A. I am aware that two or three persons whom you recommended, whose cases were brought forward, have gone out; I do not remember how many—I remember Thompson—I remember a Mr. Taylor going—I remember George Hibden and his family going—I believe a man of the name of Collins has gone—I merely know from inspecting the office books that they are gone—I remember a man named Ellis going.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Were they recommended by him? A. Some of them were—he was considered as a private gentleman—it was known that his brother held an influential situation in Adelaide—the defendant had no office in the Emigration Office in Park-street—no approval of Seamer had passed through that office—the defendant had no right to obtain money in the name of the office—I believe he has never accounted at the office, or handed over any money that he has received.
Prisoner's Defence. My lord, I stand before you under the greatest disadvantage; in the first place, my case has been placed since the last Session in the hands of a solicitor, and I was under the impression and informed that my brief and the whole of my case has been in the hands of Mr. Clark-son, and I was further informed that Mr. Ballantine and Mr. Clarkson had agreed that my case should come on this day; I paid no attention to this matter, resting sure I was in good hands, I gave myself no concern, but to my great astonishment I was brought up on Monday morning without a brief, or anything, and told that my trial was put off till this day. The witness has stated that he remarked to me when he brought the form filled up, that he was ineligible on account of the children, and that I told him he had passed; how was it possible for me to tell him that when he knew that the case had not gone up to Park-street? to him, and to every man who applied to me, I gave them the Government form, stating the regulations on which they can be conveyed; they are there informed that they are not to pay any money to any one; they! are informed that no person has any power or authority to grant or promise a passage, except the Commissioners, and they are not to give up their business till they have received the approval of the Commissioners; every man who applied to me was in possession of that; I was cautious in pointing it out; I asked them all if they could read and write, and they had days to look at the form and study, and read it, and therefore they had sense enough to know whether they were doing right in coming to me; I was at the dockyard one day, when a man of the name of Thompson came to me, and said, "I know you are very well connected in Australia; there is one of our men who wishes very much to go out; he is a hardworking man, will you be kind enough to try and get him out? his name is Neale"; I said, "I have no means of getting him out, but if he goes to the Commissioners' Office no doubt he will go"; this man came to me on several occasions, and I said the first time I was in town I would inquire at the Emigration Office; I went and spoke to some one; I have
no idea who, and I obtained a form and gave it to this man Neale, and I said, "If you will fill it up, if you are eligible, you will go out"; it went to Park-street, and he got an order; for this I received no remuneration; it never entered my head; a few weeks after, Thompson came to me at my lodgings, and said, "I want to speak to you particularly; my brother and three shopmates are very anxious to go out to Australia"; I said, "What nonsense are you talking? if a man has not money to pay, let him go to the Emigration Office"; he said, "They would give you 5l., if you could get them off"; he went away, and he came again, and said the men could not leave their work, and they knew if I would undertake it, I could get them off, and they would give me 5l. a piece; I said I would consider it; I considered whether I was justified in acting as an agent for these persons, and I spoke to others about it, and asked their opinion whether I could act as an agent; the person came a second time, and said, "Will you do it?" I said, "Bring the men here to me," and he said, "Very well"; his brother, Daniel Thompson, Chamberlain, and another came; they said they wished to go as soon as they possibly could; this, I think, was in the early part of Aug.; I had no form, I had nothing of the kind; I went to Park-street, and asked them to give me three forms; these were given, and I brought them down, and gave them to the men.; I desired them to fill them up, and bring them to me, or take them to Park-street; they brought them to me; I told them to take them to Park-street; they took them, and in a few days they came and told me they had received approval orders, and they brought me 2l. 10s., and in a few days they received their embarkation "orders; a few days after Taylor brought me his boy, who had been thrown on his hands; he had been: to school, and they were desirous to take him; I came and spoke to Mr. Kent, and he let me have another order; this gained great notoriety; they knew on what terms these persons had gone, and they all came to me from Camden-town and the different suburbs; they all came to me, knowing the advantage they would have in coming to me; knowing that they would get there for 2l.; this was the reason why so many persons sought me; when Hales came to me, he came with Thompson, and he must have had conversation with him, and he must have known what he had said; I said, "I am not going to run about for you without I am paid for it"; he then gave me., 1l., as be states to you, and he said he would leave that; I said, "I don't want any more money till you get your orders"; in case of any one not going whom I apply for, I return their money; Hales states that he was not to pay me till he received his approval order, and then only a portion, and the remainder when he got his embarkation order; this was my own proposal; this shows that no felonious intention was in my mind; from the confidence which these persons had in me, I might have obtained from them and the numerous persons who applied, a vast amount of money had I chosen to act fraudulently; I had every possible means of leaving the country, and going where I thought proper—having been in the earlier part of my life in the Royal Navy, I had volunteered for the Black Sea, the ships were going out day after day; I might have lined my pockets pretty well, and joined one of the ships in the Mediterranean, or the Black Sea; if I were desirous of remaining at home, my residence was in Wales where my mother and the whole of my family reside; I was anxious to go there and retire for a short while, and then go to the Mediterranean; the whole of our family are known in Carnarvon and Monmouthshire; under these circumstances, I applied to the Commissioners to appoint me their agent there; if I had designed to defraud these men, it is not likely should have applied
to the Commissioners; I must hare known it would eventually have come to their knowledge; Learmond said to me, "Mr. Maturin, you have always behaved to me as a gentleman; I am perfectly satisfied with what you hare done"; Osborn went with me there, and he expressed himself satisfied; another man was found ineligible, and he said he would like to go to some other place, and afterwards he said he would not go at all; I said, "Very well; I must return your money; I will not retain any man's money that I do not do the business for"; Learmond gave me 1l., and I never saw him again till I was taken; Hales states that I took out a red memorandum book, and told him that Bailey or Bishop had passed him, and when Mr. Pelham held up the only book that was found in my possession, he said that was not the book, it was a red memorandum book that I read to him; now I will prove that I never had such a book in my possession; he stated that Thompson paid me 2l., and subsequently he denied that he said so; afterwards he said that he meant Learmond and Hindes; it is very odd that Thompson should have been there the same day, and yet they should have been there separately; he knows very well that he had only paid 1l., and on a subsequent occasion he gave me another pound, and that was given me to pay my expenses, and from these persons I received no other sum whatever, neither have I demanded any; when the forms were brought to me they all stated that they did not want to go till Feb., 1855; I said, "What do you come to me now for, when you don't want to go till February? there the forms must lie; I will put them in at the proper time"; I presume that would have been in the latter end of October; I therefore retained the applications till I considered it was a fitting period to send them in; during a conversation I had with one of the officers of the Emigration Office, I said, "If applications are sent in, what is the usual time they come in?" he said, "It depends very much on the number of applications on the books"; I said, "Persons intending to go in February, when should they come in?" he said, "In about six weeks' time"; I said, "Very well; there are two persons I wish to send out"; Hales states in his evidence that he came to me in consequence of what he heard from Thompson, who told him I could send him out; he says he did not know in what manner I could send him, and that I did not represent that I belonged to the Emigration Office—with respect to the amount offered to me, when they offered me 20l. I told them all I required was to remunerate me for my loss of time and the expenses I was at; I cannot recollect all the conversation, and I am perfectly certain they cannot; with respect to Seamer's evidence, he acknowledges that it was in conesquence of what he beard from Thompson that he came to me; now he had applied to Park-street, he knew very well the proper form to go through, he had gone through it, and was unsuccessful; he knew that his other shopmates had got away, and he came to me to obtain my services; it is not likely he would have come to me, a perfect stranger, to get him over to Australia, or to give him advice, without he had known or imagined that I had some influence, and if he paid me I would get over that difficulty; he states that I said, "You know what you will have to pay for going to Sydney, 5l. here, and 10l. after you get there"; I said, "You are a very foolish man; you had better go to Adelaide, that is a registered colony; you would do better there"; he said, No, he would rather go where he said; I told him there must be some mistake, which I believed to be so, because on the face of the form it states that sawyers are eligible, and I now request that the Jury may see the form; he says that I said, "I will do nothing for you unless" you pay me, for I have got so many off who have not paid me"; now having
told him that, how could he believe that what I received was on the part of Government; these men came to me because they had an idea that I could get them off; when persons applied to me, I said I would inquire for them; I took Seamer's case, because he was out of work, and he said he would be very much obliged to me to get him there; I thought he was a most eligible person; I read the form, and told him that there must be some mistake in his mode of application; I said, "Meet me at Storey's-gate, I will make some inquiries, bring your certificates of your marriage, your birth, and your trade"; he came and spoke to me, and put something in my hand; I could not tell you what it was, for I put it in my pocket with other money; I do not know what it was; I said, "Very well, I will make some inquiries; I will give you a new form"; I gave it him; I told him I was going to Wales, and the sooner he sent it me the better; he sent it by post, but I was taken ill, and was attended by a doctor; that was the reason the application did not go up; as to my saying that I had his approval order, I deny it; he must have been aware that I had not got that order; he knew that I sent a note to Mr. Baynes, and he heard the reply of Mr. Baynes to me, where he says the case would be taken in turn; I intended to have taken his papers in, but I was ill, and not able to do so; when he sent the money by Learmond, I received it; I said I would not get his orders; I would not work for nothing; I was perfectly justified as a private individual to act as an agent for any one that came to me; if a person applies to you, and you think you are able to perform the service, you merely receiving enough to pay your expenses, on an understanding that they are afterwards to pay you for the service that you agree to perform for them, have you not a right to do so; I was not in the employ or payment of the Emigration Commission, nor have I ever received one farthing from them; I had a perfect right to act in the county of Kent; I had been appointed an agent in Wales, but I bad never gone there; I will prove that after my appointment, I gave instructions that no more persons could apply to me on the subject of emigration; I trust you will see that I had no fraudulent intention; thirty-five or forty persons have gone out through me, and they have gone on with their work till the time they were to go, and they are on their way to Australia; Mr. Kent has acknowledged, that several persons have gone out through my recommendation; it has been stated that I have in several cases returned their money; Hales never demanded his money from me, nor did Seamer; all they desired was to get away; when they came to me that Sunday, I read to them the letters from the Board of Commissioners, and my reply; I said, "You see the situation I am in, I can do nothing more, but I am determined to take every man of you to Park-street to see the Commissioners"; that was my intention, but I could not; I was sitting at dinner on Friday, and was taken by the officers; the Commissioners considered that I had acted a fraudulent part if I had received that money, but I stated on what terms I received it; I would have returned the money if I had had time, but I was not permitted to do it; I have been kept here two months; I will now leave my case entirely in your hands, if I have been in error or thoughtless I have borne punishment enough for it; but as for any idea of defrauding one of these men, such a thought never entered my mind; I have been in her Majesty's service, and suffered as no man ever suffered, in the West Indies, and other places; my thought and ideas were of a very different nature to this; could I have obtained access to my papers, I could have shown you what has been my situation and my intentions; when my country required my
service, I volunteered to go to service again in the Mediterranean; I obtained this agency to go on with till I went in the spring; I intended to go to Wales to my mother, to stay there till I went away; I trust you will give me every justice, though a great deal of the truth has been concealed from you; though you can see that as Learmond, and Seamer, and Hales gave their evidence, there was a degree of vindictiveness, I believe, to excite compassion on the part of the public; I have nothing more to say, I throw myself on your hands; I firmly believe that whatever verdict you give will be according to conscience, and whether you return me guilty or not guilty, it is the will of God, and I am prepared to meet it.
ELIZA BARR . I reside with my mother—I remember your coming to reside at our place, about eleven months ago I think—I remember Mr. Thompson applying to you on the subject of emigration—he came to you to get his brother to Australia—I remember your saying you had no influence, the only way in which you could assist them was in a private manner—I know there were a great number came—some of them are gone—you said that those persons had paid you various sums of money for your expenses—I remember your stating that you would consult your friends whether you could assist them—you made no secret of the manner in which you did it—I had no idea that you were acting fraudulently in anything you were doing—I had no idea of it—there were so many came to you—I do not remember any of them by name—I am not aware of your returning money to any persons who had paid any—I have heard you repeat that you had no power or authority with the Emigration Committee—I have let emigrants in once or twice when they have come—I remember Hales and Learmond—I remember the name of Seamer—I do not know the person—I recollect Hales coming one Sunday evening when you was absent—he said he heard that you had no influence.
COURT to ARCHIBALD LEARMOND. Q. What day was it you went and gave him the 2l. 10s.? A. On the 13th Nov.—I am sure of that.
GUILTY on Seamer's case only. Aged 32.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his being in custody so long a time.— Judgment Respited.
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE LENNARD . I am a painter, and live at No. 1, Arthur-street, Old Kent-road; the prisoner lives opposite, and keeps a chandler's and greengrocer's shop. On 19th Jan., at 5 o'clock in the evening, I was coming from my work—as I turned the corner into the street, I saw the prisoner's wife shoved from inside their door into the street by main force, and the door slammed to—she then turned round and hammered at the door with the knocker, and she said, "My husband has kicked me"—I had nearly got up to my door by this time—I called to my wife, and stood with her at my door—the prisoner's wife continued knocking at their door for about two minutes—she then came across to me—there was a great
quantity of blood running down from her person, between her petticoats—when she was about half way across the street, the prisoner opened the door and said, "Look at her, she is drunk"—she said, "I am not drunk, look at the blood where you kicked me"—he said, "It is not blood, it is more like water"—she then came across to my door, and sat on the step of the door—the prisoner shut his door and went in; I supported the woman up between my knees—I sent for a constable directly; before the constable came the prisoner came across, and asked his wife to go in—she said, "I sha'n't, you have kicked me, and you have murdered me"—he then went back, and shut the door again—the constable then came—there was then blood to be seen from one side of the street to the other, where she had walked—the constable asked where the prisoner was—the deceased said he was in doors, and the constable went into the house to him; in about a quarter of an hour he came out with the prisoner, and crossed the street—the woman was then lying between my knees—the prisoner said to her, "My dear Jane, will you come in"—she said, "Yes"—he lifted her up in his arms, and carried her in, and she said, "You are my lawful husband, you have murdered me, and you are my murderer"—I was afterwards called over to the house, and saw the woman—I was present at her death; in my opinion she had had no liquor in the least, no more than I have now—the prisoner was sober.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. The woman was quite sobert? A. Yes; I swear that—I swear that she said in my presence, that he kicked her—I have been examined before—I am sure she said he had kicked her—I have always remembered that—she said, "You have kicked me, and you have murdered me"—I swear that: she said, "My husband has kicked me, and he has killed me"—she was speaking to her husband—she said it in the street to me; I have been over to the prisoner's house since this affair, not constantly, not every day—I have not been taking any money from there, or removed anything, no furniture, nor any article—I swear that—there is his son, I have not removed the property, the boy did it himself—what has been removed, he has removed; I do not know what he has removed—I have not been removing his property, and turning it into money.
GEORGE WELLS (policeman, P 271). On 19th Jan., about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, I was called by Lennard; I found the deceased sitting down on the cill of the door, supported by Lennard—she was bleeding most profusely—from what she told me, I went to the prisoner's house; I told him he must consider himself my prisoner for, violently assaulting his wife, whereby her life was in danger—he made no reply—I remained with him some time; he requested me to shut up the shop—he then asked me to take him across to his wife—I went across with him, and he asked her to come in doors—she said, "Charles, you are my lawful husband, you are my murderer, and you have murdered me"—he then took her up in his arms, and carried her into his kitchen; I accompanied him—when we re-entered the house, I said nothing to him—he told me that she had been out, and she flew at him when she came home, and said she would have his heart's blood out, and he said to me immediately, "Would you not have done it under the same circumstances?"—I said, "No, nor no other man"; and he pointed to the kitchen and said, "There is where it was done"—I took him to the police station—in going along he told me that he should be most happy to die on the scaffold for her, for then he should know his worst—on the following morning, as I was taking him to the police court,
he asked me if it was true his wife was dead—I said it was—he made no reply, I then again assured him it was the fact that she was dead—he said, "I have killed her, and I can meet nothing but death"—his wife had died about a quarter to 11 o'clock on that same night; when I saw her she was in a dying state, a doctor was there with her—I produce a pair of boots, which I took from the prisoner's feet—they are heavily nailed—he was wearing them that evening.
Cross-examined. Q. You have been examined before about this, both before the Magistrate and before the Coroner? A. I have so—I did not, when I went into the house, say, "You must consider yourself in my custody for violently assaulting your wife, by kicking her"—I did not use the word "kicking"—I said, "whereby her life is in danger"—it was not then that he said, "I am very sorry, but she flew at me, and caught me by the throat, and said, 'I will have your heart's blood out'"—that did not take place at first.
JAMES DANN (policeman, P 35). I was on duty at the station house when the prisoner was brought there, about half past 6 o'clock in the evening—I wrote down the charge, and read it over to him; it was for violently assaulting his wife—I told him it was a very serious charge—he said, "Drink is the cause of it; she has brought it all upon herself—I saw him at half past 9 o'clock next morning, and then announced to him his wife's death—he said the policeman had told him she was getting better—I said that was incorrect, she died at 11 o'clock last night—he said, "Is she really dead?"—I said, "She is"—he said, "It is all her own doing"—I said, "Why, you caused the injury by kicking her"—he said, "I did not kick her; we had some words, she seized me by the neck handkerchief and fell backwards down two steps in the passage; I partly fell, and trod upon her, but did not kick her; the cause of quarrel was, she went out to purchase a new bonnet, and returned the worse for liquor."
Cross-examined. Q. He appeared very much grieved, did he not? A. He did, at the announcement of his wife's death—he did not point out to me where she had fallen—there are two steps leading from the passage into the kitchen of his house.
CHARLES FRANCIS M'DONALD . I am a surgeon, and reside at No. 1, Alpha-place, Old Kent-road. I was called in to see the dying woman—I first saw her between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening of the 19th—she was in a very excited state, as far as talking goes—she appeared in a sinking state—the lower part of her dress was saturated with blood—I took her up stairs, and laid her on the bed—I then examined, to see from what part the blood came—it came from the private parts—I could not tell at that time what was ruptured—she continued to sink, and died—after her death, I examined her person—I observed a bruised spot near where the blood came from—a kick or a blow might have produced that—on removing the skin, I found a rupture of the femoral artery—the hemorrhage from that rupture was the cause of death—the rupture corresponded with the external mark, and the bleeding was through the tissues of the upper part of the private parts—I observed other bruises about her person.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you clearly trace the rupture to the bruise? A. I think so; I have not the slightest doubt about it—the skin was not broken—it was just over the pubic bone, just above the groin—the artery comes out over that bone—the rupture was immediately under the bruise, and within a quarter of an inch of it—the arteries of the lower extremities of all women who have borne many children are diseased, from
the pressure upon them in labour—I understood she had had fourteen children—six are living—if the prisoner had fallen upon her with his knee, that would have accounted for the bruise—it is very difficult to say whether she was or not under the influence of liquor when I first saw her—she was either under the influence of liquor or very much excited—her temperament was very excitable—hemorrhage is exceedingly depressing; it would not at all tend to excite a person—I have a doubt whether her excitement was from liquor; when I made the post mortem, her stomach smelt very faintly of gin—I made that examination on the Tuesday, after her death on the Friday—all the tissues were locked up so that I think it might be expected that the smell could not go off in the interval—it is true that spirit evaporates, but here it was locked up in the stomach—I should, of course, expect to find the smell more strong immediately after death—my impression at the time was that she was under the influence of liquor, from her excited manner of speaking—she used a good deal of bad language—the hemorrhage would tend to diminish any drunkenness—if she had been drunk, it would to a certain extent sober her—in cases of hemorrhage, we generally find persons in a state of torpor or collapse, unless they are under the influence of liquor; they sink very rapidly.
MR. COOPER. Q. You judge of her being in liquor, more from her state of excitement than anything else? A. Yes, only from that—it might he only her excitable temperament; that would cause it equally with liquor—I could form no impression as to what the cause of the excitement was.
----LYON (examined by MR. BALLANTINE.) I am the prisoner's son; I am seventeen years old. I go round the streets with green grocery for my father—I was out of the way when this happened—I have never seen my mother do anything to my father—I have not seen her with a knife in her hand—I have seen her throw cups at him—my mother was very violent at times in her passion—I have heard her threaten to stab my father, and say that she would do for him—I am the eldest of the family; there are five younger—me and my mother used to do the work, and father used to go to market—three of my brothers and sisters have been in the workhouse since this—they were not in the workhouse until this occurred.
GUILTY. Aged 44.—Recommended to mercy on account of the provocation
he received— Confined One Year.
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
BENJAMIN YARWOOD . I am an engineer, and live at No. 72 1/2, Union-street, Borough. The deceased was my wife; her name was Caroline; she was forty-five years old—I saw her dead about 3 o'clock on Thursday afternoon, 11th Jan.—I had seen her last alive at 25 minutes past 8 o'clock in the morning—she was not in good health, but I had no occasion to fear her death.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did you attend before the Magistrate upon this charge being preferred against the prisoner? A. No; I was before the Grand Jury—I do not know whether any bill was found or not.
CHARLES RUTT . I am foreman to my father, a timber merchant, at No. 1, Bear-lane, opposite Mr. Ede's yard. On Thursday, 11th Jan., I saw a waggon, loaded with timber, drive up to Mr. Ede's yard—my attention was particularly called to it; there were three very large trees at the back of
the waggon—it was not a timber carriage, it was a sugar waggon: what they use for carrying hogsheads of sugar, and it drew out and expanded, and the front part of the waggon had a beam across it, and two of the trees laid upon it—the back of the trees extended four or five feet above the sides of the waggon, so that they could not draw into the gateway, and Mr. Ede's men had to cut the limbs off—the timber was fastened on by a rope and a chain, which bound the three trees together—I did not notice whether one of the trees was lying on the other two—they took off one branch and drew it down into Mr. Ede's yard—they must have undone the rope and chain—I did not see them actually do it—I did not notice how many pieces were cut off—I lost sight of it for an hour and a half—I went about my business—I saw it again about 1 o'clock—I then saw the carman backing the two horses, pushing them back one in each hand—by the carman I mean the prisoner—he was backing them to get farther off, apparently to draw the waggon into the yard—I then went into my own place—I did not see the accident occur—I heard the waggon move, and then heard something fall; it might be in about a minute or two afterwards—I went out and saw the tree on the ground, in fact two, and under it was a little girl, about thirteen or fourteen years old—after I got the girl out, I saw the deceased underneath, and the tree on her head, she was dead—the girl was hurt but very little—the waggon was then in motion, and I did not notice it then—I attended to the tree—I was about six yards from it when I came out of the gateway—I assisted in taking the woman to the workhouse—Bear-lane is a very great thoroughfare for foot passengers—I did not notice where the persons were standing before the accident occurred—when I saw the woman on the ground she was on the pavement, at least there is no pavement, or very little just where she fell, there are two or three very small flags—she was on the footway, and about fifty or sixty yards from the gateway down which the waggon was going.
WILLIAM NEHEMIAH PARSONS . I am an engineer, living at 34, Gravel-lane. On Thursday, 11th Jan., I went to Mr. Ede's—I arrived there a little before 1 o'clock—the men were then cutting off the limbs of the trees—they were on what is called an expanding trolly—I think there were no chains round the trees at that time—after the limbs were no cut off the trees I spoke to the carman—I should not have recognised the prisoner again as the man—I said to "him, "Young man, which way are you coming in this gateway with this load; because if you are going to turn round, you have very bad ground to go over; and I would recommend you to look at the ground before you start"—he was then under the carriage, and I believe he said, "Oh, I think we shall be all right"—the ground lays considerably on the incline there, and the pavement is in a very bad condition—my fear was, there being very large holes in the pavement, that the trees not being chained, would jolt off—I believe the load was not secured—I went to the back of the carriage and took a second survey of it—I then spoke to the old sawyer who stood there—I do not think the prisoner could hear what I said to him, he was under the carriage—the old sawyer said he thought it would be safe to go over the ground—if the three trees had been bound together by means of a chain and a rope, I do not think they would have fallen off—they were three walnut trees, very crooked—if they had had a binding chain round the carriage, I think they would have been perfectly safe.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. The roads are very bad there?
A. Very bad indeed—the old sawyer said he thought it might pass over securely—I said to him, "You must be cautious; if you throw these trees off you will perhaps kill somebody at this corner"—the prisoner was standing by the carriage, doing something under it—I fancy the prisoner is not the man I spoke to; I am not sure; I did not take any very particular notice of the man—I fancy it was a shorter man, rather fuller in the face—I am not sure to whom it was I said this; it was to somebody officiating with the load—I do not think the man I spoke to had a red covered book in his hand—I cannot say whether there were two persons in charge of the trolly, or only one—there were a great many of Mr. Ede's men there—there are places on the trolly to fasten chains to, but no place for the putlocks—I know it had places to fasten chains to—I took particular notice of the carriage; it was a very wide one indeed, made to expand for the purpose of receiving trees; it expanded out about three feet—I was not before the Magistrate, or before the Grand Jury.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. Did you see the carriage at the time the trees fell off? A. No; I had left about five minutes, and when I came back the woman was killed—I did not see the carriage in motion at all.
WILLIAM CHAPLIN NEALE . I am in the employ of Mr. Ede, of No. 37, Bear-lane. I remember a load of timber coming on 11th Jan.—I cannot say in whose care it was—the prisoner, I believe, drove it—I understood he came from the North Western Railway at Camden-town—there was a book carrier with the prisoner, but whether he was in charge with him I do not know—I should say he was about twenty years of age—I cannot say what his duty was—I never saw either of them before—the waggon was drawn by four horses—there were three walnut-trees on it—it was too wide to admit it into the gateway, and two limbs of the trees were obliged to be cut off to let it in—Bear-lane is a great thoroughfare for foot passengers—I saw the carriage turn to go back into the gateway—I was coming up the yard when he started from the gateway—I had been to put one of the limbs on the pile, and as I was returning he started from the gateway—I did not see him until after he had turned the horses; he was then at the head of the horses, and the carriage was in motion—I saw the underneath tree shift, and in a few seconds it fell, carrying a second one with it—I saw a child entangled underneath one of the trees by its clothes—it had a scratch on the face—whether it was hurt or not I cannot say—I saw a female under the same tree—I assisted in lifting the tree off her—she was totally dead by the time we got the tree off—I dare say the tree weighed from a ton to 30 cwts., as near as I could judge—I did not see how the timber was secured when it arrived—it had arrived there some time previous to my coming to the gate—they were not secured at the time they fell—I did not see any rope or chain belonging to the carriage with the timber—if the trees had been bound together by a chain and rope I should say it would have passed in with safety.
Cross-examined. Q. Were there several of your master's servants there in attendance upon the trolly when the waggon started? A. We were all down the yard when he started—I cannot tell what he started for—he was at the head of his horses—I should say it is the carman's place to attend principally to his horses—I cannot say whether he or the book carrier should attend to the security of the load—the prisoner was charged before the Magistrate, and admitted to bail—I was there as a witness—the Magistrate discharged him, and he was then taken upon the Coroner's
warrant—I believe the inquest was held while the prisoner was on bail—I attended here before the Grand Jury—I do not know whether they threw out the bill.
ROBERT FLEMING (policeman, A 459.) From information I received on Thursday, 11th Jan., about 1 o'clock, I went to Bear-lane, and saw the deceased—I believe she was quite dead then—I caused her to be removed to the workhouse—I inquired of the people there who was the driver; they pointed out the prisoner—I went to him and asked him if he was the driver of the carriage, pointing to the timber carriage—he said he was—I asked him how the accident occurred—he said it was in consequence of the load being too large to go into the gate; they had to take off the fastenings, to cut off some limbs, and that he went on and neglected to put them on again—I took him into custody—the book carrier was there—he is here to-day.
Gross-examined by MR. GIFFARD. Q. Just tell me exactly what it was he said; how the accident had happened? A. He said it occurred in consequence of his going on, and they neglected to put the fastenings on before he removed.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. Just try and recollect as accurately as you can; are you sure it was, "And they neglected?"A. Yes; perfectly sure.
COURT. Q. Then you were wrong before; because what you first said was, that he went on and neglected to put them on again? A. It was "they neglected."
EDWARD NEWLING . I am a book carrier, and live at No. 3, James-street, Camden-town. I was book carrier with the trolly—my duty is to bind the load, and see it delivered, and get the goods signed for—on 11th Jan., I accompanied the prisoner with a load of timber to Mr. Ede's, in Bear-lane; the prisoner was the driver (the-witness was informed by the Court, that he was not obliged to answer any questions which he considered might involve him in trouble)—then I would rather not say anything—it was the prisoner's duty to drive the horses straight to the place where we were going to—he had nothing to do with the binding—by binding I mean securing the timber together.
NOT GUILTY .
MR., ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM RANSOM . I am managing assistant clerk of the Southwark County Court of Surrey. I produce a summons which was issued out of our Court in the cause of William King, v. William Richard Smith; it was heard on 6th Jan.—I produce the certificate of the judgment.
WILLIAM RICHARD SMITH . I am a cornchandler, and reside at No. 2, Windsor-place, Old Kent-road. The prisoner was in my service as carman—he had 15s. a week—on Thursday, 7th Dec., he was sent to Mrs. Cunningham's, in the Old Kent-road, to remove some goods—I did not see him again until the next morning, at 20 minutes to 1 o'clock, when he came home—he said he had made 9s. of the job; that they were a mean shabby lot, they had not given him any beer, or anything to drink—he gave me a half sovereign, and I gave him the 1s. change, and also another shilling for himself, because he was out so late at night—he did not tell me in what coin he had been paid, he simply gave me the half sovereign, and I gave him the shilling out—on the Friday evening I saw Mr. Drapper, senior, who made some communication to me—in consequence of that, at the close of business, as the prisoner was going to leave, I called him into my private parlour on
the Friday evening, and told him I wanted to know the reason why he had charged 10s. 6d. and given me only 9s.—he said he had only received 9s.—I then told him that I would sift the matter, let it cost me what it might, and I let him go that night—I saw Mr. Drapper again on the subject that night, and made further inquiry of him, and he made a further communication to me—in consequence of that I got up very early next morning, and met the prisoner the moment he came to work—I opened the gate to him—I told him I had sufficient evidence that he had received 10s., and two 4d. pieces, and that in consequence of his saying he had had no beer, the lady took the 4d. piece back and gave him 6d., and that I should not allow him to come on my premises again—he said, I knew more than he did, and went away; but previous to his going I told him to come in the after part of the day, and I would consider what I would do with him—he came again in the afternoon, and I tendered his wages to him minus—I tendered him 9s.—his weekly wages were 15s., but he had drawn half a crown on account, during the week, which he frequently did; there was 2s. for a clock which he had purchased of me during the week, and 18d. that he had wronged me of—that was what I said to him; and I said, "There is 9s."—he disputed it—I cannot give his exact words, but he would not allow it—a few words passed that I cannot exactly recollect now, and he left—I laid the 9s. down on the counter, but he would not take it—he afterwards summoned me to the County Court; I received this summons, and appeared on the day named—Mr. Clive was the Judge—it came on on Tuesday, 16th Jan.—the prisoner was sworn, and examined by Mr. Clive.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I pay you half a sovereign? A. You did—I gave you 1s. and two sixpences for yourself—it was not 6d. that I gave you in change; I am quite sure it was a shilling, I swear it—I asked you next morning where I had put the half sovereign—I could not find it in my pocket, because I had some more money there; I had for the time mislaid it—you told me where I had put it, and I found it—I had put it in a drawer along with some papers.
COURT. Q. Had he seen you put it there? A. Yes.
SARAH CUNNINGHAM . I am the wife of William Cunningham, of No. 3, Union-terrace, Notting-hill. On Thursday, 7th Dec, I employed Mr. Smith to remove some things for me—the prisoner came with a van to do the job—when he had finished the job he came to me, and said, "Your good gentleman says that you will settle with me"—I said, "What have I to pay?"—he said, "10s. 6d. "—I gave him half a sovereign and two 4d. pieces—I said to him, "Did you have any beer?"—he said no, he had not had any—I then told him to give me one of the 4d. pieces back, and I gave him 6d., and said, "That is 4d. for yourself"—I had not told him where I was going; it was not quite decided; we did think of going to America, but we went to Scotland—the prisoner might have heard it talked about that we were going to a distance, but I cannot say that he did—Mr. Drapper was present when I paid him the money—I was afterwards present at the Southwark County Court when this cause came on to be tried before Mr. Clive—I saw the prisoner sworn, and heard him examined—he stated that he had received half a sovereign from me, and that he had given me three 4d. pieces in change—after he had said that, I was examined—the prisoner was then recalled by Mr. Clive—he was cautioned; Mr. Clive told him to be careful what he said, or he might commit him to the Old Bailey—after t hat he stated that he had received half a sovereign and 6d. from me, and had given me back three id. pieces—I was examined in his presence, and
so was Mr. Smith—we were both examined before the prisoner was recalled—Mr. Smith said the prisoner had given him half a sovereign, and had charged him 9s.—the prisoner said when he was recalled that he paid Mr. Smith 9s. 6d.—he did not say so before he was recalled; what he said at first was that he had paid Mil Smith 9s.
HENRY DRAPPER . I am a clerk, in the service of the Brighton Railway Company, and live at No. 3, Hartley-place, Old Kent-road. I was present on the evening of 7th Dec., when Mrs. Cunningham asked the prisoner what she had to pay for the job—he said, "10s. 6d. "—she gave him half a sovereign and two 4d. pieces—she then asked if he had had anything to drink; be said he had not, and Mrs. Cunningham gave him 6d., and asked him to return her a 4d. piece, and said 4d. was for himself—I had been in the house ever since 11 o'clock; I was there when he came, but I had not seen him before—I was present at the trial before Mr. Clive—I do not know exactly the words the prisoner said in the first instance, I did not hear it—I heard him recalled; I do not exactly recollect whether I was called before the prisoner was examined—when he was recalled, Mr. Clive told him to be careful, or else he would have to be sent to the Old Bailey—he then stated that he had received 9s. 6d. from Mrs. Cunningham; he said he had received a half sovereign and 6d., and had returned her three 4d. pieces.
Prisoner. Q. Where were you at the time Mrs. Cunningham paid me? A. Standing by her side—I was looking at the direction on a barrel of oysters in the shop—my father keeps the shop; he is Mrs. Cunningham's uncle—this took place in the room behind the shop—my sister was standing by, near enough to hear the conversation; she is about twenty-one years of age—I had no particular reason for attending to what took place—my attention was called to it next day.
GEORGE BARNES . I am ushers at the Southwark County Court. I recollect this cause coming on to be tried—I swore the prisoner—I did not attend to the case until after Mr. Clive gave the caution to the prisoner—he then stated that he received half a sovereign and 6d.; that he gave three 4d. pieces back to Mrs. Cunningham, and that she gave him one back for himself—he did not say what for: eventually Mr. Clive committed him.
WILLIAM RANSOM re-examined. I recollect this trial perfectly—I made a minute in the minute book of the result; I have brought the extract—I have the Judge's notes; I examined them the same evening; they precisely corresponded with my recollection of what took place—I have here a copy of the notes in my own writing; I made it last Monday evening; I have not got the original notes here—without reference to the notes, I have a recollection of what took place at the trial: as near as I can recollect, the prisoner first stated that he had charged Mrs. Cunningham 9s. for the job; in fact, I may say that I am all but positive those were the words—I am positive as to the substance—he said that Mrs. Cunningham gave him half a sovereign, and that he gave her in change all the money he had in his pocket, which was a shilling—Mr. Smith, Mrs. Cunningham, and Mr. Drapper were then examined, and then the prisoner was recalled; in fact, he never went out of the box.
COURT. Q. The suit was for the wages? A. Yes, for 12s. 6d. wages—the demand was by the prisoner against Mr. Smith, and the defence set up by the defendant, the now prosecutor, was, that he had discharged him at a moment's notice on the ground of the dishonesty which he had practised, in keeping 1s. 6d. back, and making a false statement to him: and it was upon that evidence, after hearing Mrs. Cunningham and Mr. Drapper, that Mr. Clive
recalled the prisoner—it is necessary to give notice of a set-off—there was no notice of set-off in this case, it went off on a different ground—the defence was, that he had discharged the then plaintiff at a moment's notice, on the ground of dishonesty, and that that exempted him from paying wages altogether—the point is this, the prisoner was a weekly servant, at 15s. per week; for that stipend he was faithfully and honestly to serve his employer; he breaks faith in that contract, and having broken faith in that contract, he was not entitled to that sum for doing that which he had contracted to do—Mr. Smith, in effect, set that up as his defence, that he had never earned his wages, because before the time came he had discharged him, for a good reason.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Eventually, I believe, Mr. Clive decided in favour of the defendant? A. Yes, and ordered the plaintiff to pay his costs—when the prisoner was recalled, he was cautioned by Mr. Clive, and Mr. Clive wrote his words down; he then swore that Mrs. Cunningham gave him half a sovereign and a 6d., and that he gave her three 4d. pieces in change—Mr. Clive then asked him, "Are you sure?" and he said, "Yes."
COURT. Q. Did he say the second time anything about what he had charged? A. No.
Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent; I made the charge of 9s. 6d. to Mrs. Cunningham; she gave me a half sovereign and a 6d.; I put my hand into my pocket, and gave her three 4d. pieces, and she gave me 4d. for a drop of beer, leaving 9s. 6d.; I brought my master half a sovereign, and he gave me 6d. out, that made 9s. 6d.; I paid my employer for the job, and he gave me 6d. for myself, and after I had done, when I shut the door, he gave me another 6d. for myself, because it was late.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of his good
Character.— Confined One Year.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
303. JOHN FISH, MARY JANE FISH , and JANE FISH , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Joseph Alderson, at Lambeth, and stealing therein 1000 yards of ribbon, 100 yards of velvet, and 2000 yards of silk, value 335l., his property.
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH ALDERSON . I am a linendraper, of No. 32, Mount-street, Lambeth. On 9th Dec. I went to bed about 11 o'clock, leaving the property on my premises perfectly safe—on coming down next morning, I found the shop door half open, and a panel out—a basket had been taken away with a large quantity of silks—the parties had got in by the skylight, which had been shut the night before, but not fastened—a rope was hanging from it, by which they must have let themselves down—I have lost velvets and silks to the amount of 400l. or 500l.—on 5th Jan. I accompanied the police to Wilstead-court, Somers-town, and found the three prisoners there, the females downstairs and the male upstairs—he was brought down by sergeant Harris, and told to consider himself in custody—we commenced a search, and found a quantity of short lengths of silks and ribbons (produced)—this other parcel (produced) was found upstairs, but not in my presence—I have examined all these articles, they are all my property—I have a pattern of silk which will match with this piece—these patterns (produced) were cut two days previously to send into the country to a person, and were returned
to me afterwards—I had sold some of this silk before the robbery, but none afterwards—I do not know to whom—this pattern fits this piece exactly.
M. J. Fish. That black silk belongs to me, and so does the mantle.
Witness. The velvet of this mantle answers the description of some velvet which we lost.
MARGARET GOODBEER . I am a servant, in Mr. Alderson's employ. On 9th Dec. 1 got up, and found the house in disorder—I found the shop door open, and a panel cut out—it was safe at 10 o'clock the night before—I went and told my master.
WILLIAM ROMAIN (policemm, L 14). On 9th Dec., soon after 7 o'clock, I was called to Mr. Alderson's—a street runs at the back of the premises, and I saw recent marks of a person having come down from the roof of the house into the yard—there was a table in the yard, on which there were marks also, and there were footsteps on the staircase window, from whence they got on to a roof—there were marks of men's feet along the roof—a rope was fastened to the skylight window, round the water pipe, and hung down on the counter, so that they could lower themselves down—I went to Wilstead-street from information, and saw Mrs. Fish inside the door—I asked her if her name was Fish—she said, "Yes"—we went in—the two female prisoners were downstairs—I told them to consider themselves in custody—Harris went upstairs, came down with the male prisoner, and handed him to me—I told him to consider himself in custody for being concerned, with others, for burglariously breaking into the house of Mr. Alderson—we then commenced a search, and in a drawer downstairs, in the room where the female prisoners were, found these pieces of silk and satin—the prisoners were then brought away in custody—there were 177 pawnbrokers' duplicates found, two of which relate to this property—the elder prisoner said that the property found was left there by two travellers, her lodgers—the pieces of silk were all together in one drawer, not packed up in any way—there were three pieces of ribbon under the table in front of the window.
SAMUEL HARRIS (police-sergeant, L 6). I went with Romain—I went upstairs, and found the male prisoner in the front room, first floor, standing up by the side of a table, where I found some velvet—I said, "Is your name Fish?"—he said, "Yes"—I passed him down stairs, and then commenced searching the room, and found three pieces of velvet, forming parts of a mantle, lying on a table close by where the male prisoner stood—I found two separate boxes, containing lengths of silk, in the room in which the male prisoner was—here are ten small pieces of coloured silk here, and a piece of calico.
GEORGE BUDD (policeman, L 164). I accompanied Harris and Romain—I found this waistcoat (produced) in a box in the first floor front room—when I came downstairs the male prisoner said that it was his, and the elder female prisoner said that she gave him the stuff to make it, and that it was left there by some travellers—the female searcher produced this piece of blue ribbon at the station, and said that she found it in the younger female prisoner's pocket, who then said that it was a portion of the property which was left by the travellers.
JOHN KITOHNER . I am a tailor, of No. 11A, King's-row, Pentonville—I know the female prisoners, but not the male. On 11th Dec., two young men came to my house with some velvet, to be made into a waistcoat—they ordered two waistcoats at first, and they were fetched away on the Saturday by the younger female prisoner, who told me that if I would call at No. 130,
King's-row, on Tuesday morning, there was another young man who wanted something—I called on the Monday afternoon, and he was not at home; they told me that he would call on me the next day (that was the Monday before Christmas)—on the Tuesday, a young man, not the prisoner, called, and I made him a waistcoat, which was taken away by the younger female prisoner on the Sunday before Christmas day, and on the next day she brought some velvet, and I made another waistcoat, similar to this, but the velvet was more of a maroon—I made four altogether.
RICHARD PURKIN . I am assistant to Mr. Purkin, of No. 2, Albion-place, Battlebridge—I produce a piece of silk pawned with us by a female on Tuesday, 2nd Jan.—this is the duplicate (produced)—I do not know the prisoners. (The duplicate was the corresponding part of one of those found at the house).
SAMUEL WRAY . I am a clerk to a house agent—I was called to put a distress into No. 3, King's row, Pentonville—the prisoners lived there—after the man had been in possession five days, we agreed to let the prisoners go on their paying the expense of the distress, and the elder prisoner pledged some silk to pay the expense, and gave me the ticket as security—I was there on four or five occasions, and always saw them living there; that was from 29th Dec. to 2nd Jan., on which night they left.
THOMAS BOWSKILL . I was placed in possession at No. 3, Kings-row—the prisoners, all three, lived there; it is a nine roomed house—on the day that they had to make up the money, the elder prisoner produced a piece of silk from somewhere at the back of the premises; she complained of the place being damp, and held it to the fire to dry it—she said, "I am going to raise money now on this to get the money"—after drying it, I held it, while she doubled it into lengths, but previous to doing that she cut a piece off.
COURT. Q. I suppose you tried to find what property there was on the premises? A. Of course if anything had been taken out or in I should have stopped it directly, but I did not look into the drawers.
MR. PARRY. Q. I believe she was allowed to go as soon as she had paid the expenses? A. Yes.
John Fish's Defence. I have no knowledge of the robbery; I live with my mother.
Mary Jane Fish's Defence. The mantle belongs to me, likewise the silk, I have had them a long time; I have been a mantle and dress maker for years; I never concealed anything, and never locked anything up; these two shot dresses I bought last summer at a shop that was selling off in Oxford-street; I have a very large family, and have had a heavy struggle to manage; my daughter knows nothing at all about it; this mantle was cut out eleven months ago.
MARY JANE FISH— GUILTY . Aged 58.— Confined Twelve Months. JOHN and JANE FISH— NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY to stealing the waistcoats and handkerchiefs. Aged 22. Confined Four Months.
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARTHA CHASE . My husband keeps the Bull in the Pound, in Black-friars. On 9th Jan., two men and two females came-in—the prisoners, Marshall and Williams, were two of them—Marshall called for pot of stout; I served him—he gave me half a crown—I doubted it, but I showed it to a person, who thought it was good—I gave Marshall 2s.—I gave the half crown to my husband—he tried it, and it was bad—I cannot say whether Quinlan was the other man.
JOHN CHASE . I am husband of the last witness. On the evening of 9th Jan., I came down to the bar, and received a half crown from my wife—Marshall and Williams were two of the persons who were present—there was another man and woman there—I first thought the half crown was good, but I found it was bad—I gave it to an officer.
MARY WHEELER . My husband keeps the Northumberland Arms, in Blackfriars-road. On the evening of 9th Jan., Marshall, Williams, and another man came—I cannot recognise Quinlan as the man—Marshall asked for some gin, and he gave me a bad half crown—I gave it him back, and he paid me a 4d. piece—they drank the gin, and went away.
JOHN ADAMS . I keep the Kennett ale stores, in Blackfriars-road. On the evening of 9th Jan., the three prisoners came, about 10 o'clock—my house is about three minutes' walk from Mr. Wheeler's—Marshall called for a pot of stout—he gave me a bad half crown—he put it down on the counter—my wife made a remark to me in a whisper, and Marshall put his head across the counter, and said, "Is that a bad half crown?"—I had not said anything about what had been said by my wife—Marshall asked to look at it—I said, "No, not this time"—he produced a shilling, and 5d. in coppers; he asked if they were bad—I jumped over the bar to prevent the prisoners going out, and a policeman came up and took them—I gave the officer the half crown I had received from Marshall.
HENRY BARRATT (policeman, L 81). I followed the prisoners, on 9th Jan., between 9 and 10 o'clock, from the Rising Sun to the Northumberland Arms—I saw them all go in there—I followed them from there to Mr. Adams's—I waited there, and I was called, and took them into custody—I received this half crown from Mr. Adams at the station—I found nothing on Quinlan.
Quinlan. He swears falsely about my being with this man; I had not been in his company two minutes when I was taken; he asked me to have something to drink, and I said, "Yes."
CHARLES COOK (policeman, L 146). I received this half crown from Mr. Chase—on 9th Jan., I went to Mr. Adams's, when the prisoners were taken—I searched Marshall at the station, and found on him 1s. 5 1/2 d.—I asked him where he lived; he said, "Anywhere."
Marshall's Defence. I had been playing at skittles, and took a good deal of money; I went into the Bull in the Pound, and had a pot of stout; I
then met this young man, and asked him to have something to drink; I told him to come with me, and we were taken.
Williams's Defence. I am unfortunate; I met this man, and he asked me to have something to drink; I went to have it; I know nothing about the money.
MARSHALL— GUILTY .* Aged 29.— Confined Eighteen Months.
QUINLAN and WILLIAMS— NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH ANN KIBBLEWHITE . I keep the Hope public house in Gravel-lane, Southwark. On 4th Jan. the prisoner Willis came, about 11 o'clock in the evening—he called for half a quartern of gin, and gave me a bad shilling—I took it up and saw it was bad—I called my husband's attention to it, and he detained Willis in the house—I went for a constable and saw White—he was a house and a half off—as I passed him I heard him say, "So help me G—he is kept"—I went for the constable, and when I came back I found White and Willis inside our house—they were both given into custody.
Willis. Q. What was the reason that you thought I knew this young man? Did you ever see me in his company? A. No.
ALFRED AUGUSTUS KIBBLEWHITE . I saw Willis give a shilling to my wife on 4th Jan., about 11 o'clock at night—she said it was bad, and handed it to me—I went round the bar, and asked Willis if he had got any more—he said he had not, and then he appeared to be tipsy—I sent my wife for a constable, and White came in in five or six minutes with a female and two young lads—directly White came in I knew him from a former circumstance—he had been in the house before—when he came in he said something to Willis, in an under tone, which I did not hear—I gave them both into custody—at the station White was sitting on a stool near the door, and I noticed something fall between his legs—the officer took it up, it was unwrapped, and it was a bad half crown.
White. Q. What did I call for? A. For a pot of beer, just to take my attention off from Willis, but you did not drink it—you said something to Willis, but I cannot tell what it was.
Willis. Q. You never saw me in this man's company before? A. No.
WILLIAM HESKET (policeman, M 85.) I went to the station with White—he was sitting on a form—my attention was called to something that fell—I saw it fall from White's hand—I took it up; it was this half crown, in a piece of paper—White said, "That is all right; any one would know that is a bad one; it is a brass one."
Willis's Defence. There is no proof that I was the companion of this man; the half crown I know nothing about; I did not know the shilling was counterfeit, or I would not have uttered it.
While's Defence. On 5th Jan. I was standing at the Southwark Police Court, and there was so little evidence I was discharged, and on the following Saturday I was committed as being an associate with this other man; I wish to know whether it is legal for me to be tried again for the same offence; as to the half crown I knew it was bad.
Willis's Defence. The woman says she was a house and a half from the
door when she saw me; I never saw this man in my life before; he did not speak to me.
COURT to SARAH ANN KIBBLEWHITE. Q. Are you sure White is the man you saw outside your shop? A. Yes; and he was in the shop when I came back.
WILLIS— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Nine Months.
WHITE*— GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined One Year.
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN WORBY . I keep a chandler's shop, in Swan-street, Newington. On 1st Jan. I saw the prisoners come to the shop, between 6 and 7 o'clock—I am sure they are the persons—Bennett asked for half an ounce of tea and a quarter of a pound of sugar—they came to 10 1/2 d.—she gave me a shilling—my husband found it was bad—an officer was called in, and the prisoners were given into custody.
JAMES WORBY . My wife served the prisoners with the tea and sugar—Bennett gave her a shilling—I tried it and found it was bad—Bennett asked for it back—I said, "No"—I sent for a constable—I gave the prisoners into custody, and gave the constable the shilling.
SARAH ANN FENSAM . I am searcher at the station. On 1st let Jan., the prisoners were brought there—I searched them, I found nothing on Bennett—I then asked Goodman if she had anything on her; she said, "No"—I found some tickets in her bosom, and in the pocket of her petticoat I found a bad shilling.
BENNETT— GUILTY .* Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
GOODMAN— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Nine Months.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH TURTLE . I keep a chandler's shop in York-road, Batterses On 23rd Jan., the prisoner came—I have no doubt he is the young man, he purchased an ounce of tobacco—it was put in a paper—I have seen part of it since—it is the same sort of paper, and the same sort of tobacco—the price of it was 3d.—he gave me in payment a half crown, I gave him 3d. out of the till—I had no silver there—I went into the adjoining room where my husband was sitting at tea; I asked him if he had got 2s.—while he was putting his hand in his pocket, I bit the half crown; I turned to the prisoner and said, "I don't like the look of this half crown; I don't like to change it"—he said, "It is a very good one"; and he put his hand in his pocket, and gave me a good one—I said, "This does not want any looking at"; and I returned him the bad one—when I had given him the 3d., and was going into the parlour for the two shillings, he was going out of the shop—I said to him, "You have not got all your change w—he said, "All right," and he turned back—I bit the bad half crown, and gave it him—while I was serving him a man came in, and wanted a cigar—I finished serving the tobacco, and then I served the cigar, and he laid down 1 1/2 d.—he jocularly said something to the prisoner, I do not know what, and left the shop first.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before? A. No; it was gas light—I knew the prisoner again, the moment I saw him at the police court—I am quite sure I never entertained or expressed a doubt about him—the paper was a common sort of paper, in which other persons wrap up goods—no one pointed out the prisoner to me, when I knew him—I was fetched from my house to the Court, and the prisoner was in the dock, and nobody else there—I was asked by a gentleman in the room, whether there was any one there that I knew, and I saw the prisoner—I pledge my oath, that he is the same young man that bought the tobacco—when I told, him the half crown was bad, he said, "I don't think there is much doubt about it, I took it at the Lord Auckland; "and he said, he wished he had a sack full of them—I do not recollect what was said by the other young man—I bit the half crown—I have seen it since.
MARTHA JONES . I keep a milliner's shop in Edward-place, York-road. On 23rd Jan., the prisoner came in about 7 o'clock—I had two customers in the shop—the prisoner said, "serve me directly, I am in a hurry"—I left the calico shop and served him—he asked for a pair of socks, and said his feet were wet—they came to 8 1/2 d.; he gave me a half crown—I gave him 3 1/2 d. and 1s. 6d. in silver—I let the half crown lie on the counter, and directly he was gone 1 said, "This is a bad one"—finding it was bad, I went out to go to my brother-in-law, and as I crossed the road, I saw two men going to Mr. Cox's—I went to my brother-in-law—I had the half crown in my hand—I saw a constable passing my brother-in-law's window; I made a communication to him—I went with him to Mr. Cox's; I did not go into the shop, but I passed the window—I saw the prisoner and another man come out of the shop—the constable took the prisoner into custody—I do not know what became of the other man—I sell wool cuffs; I had them in my window that night—the prisoner was taken to my shop first, and then to the station—I followed him, and on the way Burdett gave me the pair of socks which I had sold to the prisoner—I gave the half crown I received from the prisoner to the constable.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know the socks were yours? A. I knew them again; I had the same sort at home—many other shopkeepers have the same sort of socks—when the prisoner was taken into custody, I did not notice the other man—I was before the Magistrate, and gave evidence—I have not said before, that the other man made the best of his way off—I did not see him—I have three gas lights in my shop—I suppose Mr. Cox's is about fifty yards from mine, on the opposite side of the way, in the same street—the socks were picked up and given to me about a mile from my shop; I should say ten minutes' walk from the station, as I was walking near the Red Lion, between Battersea and Wandsworth—I suppose my shop is a mile and a half or two miles from the station—I did not notice Burdett till he gave me the socks.
FREDERICK JAMES COX . I live in York-road, Battersea—I deal in precisely the same articles as Miss Jones does—in the evening of 23rd Jan., the prisoner came to my shop with another man, who had a cigar in his mouth which was not lighted—the prisoner asked for a pair of woollen cuffs; they came to 3 1/2 d.—he gave me a half crown, and I gave him 2s. 2 1/2 d. change—the other man had four yards of black braid, which came to 1s. 2d.; he paid me in good money—they left the shop together—I saw the constable outside, and he took the prisoner—the other man went away as quick as ever he could—I bit the half crown, made a mark on it with my
teeth, and gave it to the officer—the prisoner and the other man came in together, and they were talking as if they had known each other some time.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know the Lord Auckland? A. I have seen it, but I do not know exactly where it is; I have heard of matches going on there—I am sure it was the prisoner put down the money—I had two lights in my window, and one in the back—my shop may be fifty yards from Miss Jones's; it is just across the road—the other man had been in my shop once; he came by himself about a fortnight before; I did not like him, and I called my wife into the shop.
JOHN JOHNS (policeman, V 69). Miss Jones made a communication to me on the night of 23rd Jan.—in consequence of that, I went to Mr. Cox's shop—I saw the prisoner and another man in the shop—I stopped the prisoner when he came out—I received a counterfeit half crown from Miss Jones, and another from Mr. Cox—as I was taking the prisoner to the station, he said he had passed the two half crowns, and did not know they were bad—he said, "I have been to the Lord Auckland to a shooting match; it did not come off, and we went to cards"—I asked him the knew the other man; he said he saw him at the Lord Auckland, and not before then, and if I would let him go he would give me 2l.—I searched him at the station, and found a 5s.-piece, 2s., and 5 1/2 d. in coppers; a pair of woollen cuffs in his pocket, and a small piece of tobacco in paper—I received a pair of socks from Miss Jones—I examined the prisoner's feet, and they were quite dry—he gave his right address—he was not going towards his home from the Lord Auckland, but in a different direction.
Cross-examined. Q. How far is Miss Jones's shop from the station? A. About a mile, or a little better; it is not two miles; not a mile and a half, I should think—I do not know what Miss Jones said about it—the prisoner said that the other man was quite a stranger to him—I went to North-street, Clapham, where the prisoner said he lived—when I took the prisoner he was coming out of the door at Mr. Cox's—I saw the other man no more after I took the prisoner—Miss Jones's shop is between the Lord Auckland and Mr. Cox's—I know that shooting matches often take place at the Lord Auckland—I went and made inquiry—there was one that day, though the prisoner denied that there was—I went there to inquire by the Magistrate's order.
GEORGE BURDETT . I live in York-place; I work at Price's candle factory, and have done for three years. On Tuesday, 23rd Jan., I was walking along York-road—I saw the prisoner in the custody of the officer—I followed them, and near the Red Lion, at Wandsworth, I saw the prisoner put his hand behind him, into his hind pocket, and draw out a small paper parcel—I saw it fall to the ground—I was about three yards from him—I immediately picked it up, and looked at it—there was a pair of socks in it—the paper was in two pieces—one piece fell off as it dropped—I gave the socks to Miss Jones, in the same paper as I picked them up in—Miss Jones was about two yards from me.
Cross-examined. Q. What sort of a night was it? A. Not so very light—there are gas lights nearly all the way to the station—they cease for about 200 yards—there were gas lights near the Bed lion—they extend up the road—they cease at Mr. Phillips's.
MR. CLERK. Q. Have you any doubt whether there was light enough for you to see the prisoner put his hand into his pocket and pull out a pair of socks? A. I saw him do it.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury on account of his
Character.— Confined Four Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Sixteen Months.
THOMAS THOMPSON . I am shopman to Richard Moser and Sons, ironmongers, of No. 165, High-street, Borough. On 24th Jan. the witness Lucas came to our house—I saw him go into the counting-house—we have customers named Dale and Son—shortly after Lucas came I received this paper from one of my employers, Mr. John Moser—this paper has the name of Dale and Son on it—in consequence of receiving this, I delivered to Lucas all I could of the order; one dozen of flat files, 14 inch and 15 inch; and two dozen of hand files, 12 inch; and some others—the value of the goods was above 3l.—I delivered this invoice with the goods.
Prisoner. That order is not in my handwriting.
EDWARD LUCAS . I am a dock labourer. The prisoner was also a dock labourer—we did not work together—I was with him some days ago, I believe it was on Wednesday last, at St. Katharine's Dock—he asked me if I would take an order for him; I said I would—that was not the first time he spoke about it—he had asked me on Tuesday morning, and I told him "No"—he asked me again, and I said, what was it for?—he would not tell me what it was for, but he asked me to wait till 12 o'clock, and he would get the order—I told him, "No"—on Wednesday, before our wharfinger came out, the prisoner said to me, "If you don't get on, will you take that order for me? for I have brought the things with me to do it"—I said, "Come along"—we went over London-bridge, and he went into a stationer's shop—he told me to wait outside a moment, And I did wait—from there we went to a public house; I believe it was the Black Bull—when we got there, he called for a pint of beer, and asked the landlady if she would lend him some ink—he did not want a pen, he had got one—they gave him some ink—he had some paper, and he wrote three or four orders—he tore this order off, gave it to me, and told me to take it to Moser and Sons, and if they should ask me any questions, to tell them that Mr. Dale's son, who had just come out of the Blue-coat School, wrote it—he said it would be a very good thing, it would be about 12s. 6d. each, and there was no fear of their finding us out, for they always gave Mr. Dale six months' credit, and we could go there and get some more things afterwards—I consented to take it, and after I had done so, I made a communication at the Southwark station—I then went to Mr. Moser's, and his shopman sent me into the counting house—I saw Mr. Moser, and gave the order to him—he gave it to the shopman, who gave me the goods and the invoice—I told the shopman about my having been to the police, and he gave me the goods under these circumstances—the prisoner had told me, when I got the goods to come back to the Black Bull, and tap at the window, and he would come and receive them of me—when I came out with the goods, the prisoner was standing in the street,
looking in a coffee shop window—I gave him the invoice, and asked him to take the goods—he would not take them; he said he had to go across the road, to speak to Mr. Sharp—the policeman came up, and took him into custody—before we got to the Black Bull, the prisoner took off his apron, and said to me, "Take my apron, and put it on you."
Prisoner. Q. Do you say I bought a sheet of paper? A. I cannot say—you went in the first stationer's shop over London Bridge—I stopped outside—I might have been two or three yards from the door—I was not at the corner of York-street when you came out; I was by the railings—you gave me your apron in the Borough—it was not opposite the Adelaide tavern—it was on the other side of the bridge—I told the inspector that you wrote three more papers like this—I did not tell him you had them in your pocket—I left you with them—I do not know what you did with them—the police asked if you had got any other orders—I said you wrote three or four orders—I belong to the City Militia—I was disbanded on Whit-Monday—during the time I was embodied I was a private—I never had ten days in the black hole in my life—I am in the Militia still.
JAMES DALE . I am in partnership with my father; we are coppersmiths, and live in Thames-street. The prisoner was in our service as a labourer for about eight months—that is about two months ago—he was not in our service on 24th Jan.—this paper is not the writing of my father or myself, or of any person in our employ—I never gave authority to the prisoner, or to any person, to write this—we are customers of Messrs. Moser—we have not sent for anything of this sort lately—I have a brother who was in the Blue-coat School—the prisoner had the means of knowing that—my brother used to come about our premises in the guise of the Blue-coat School, but not at the time the prisoner was there, I believe—this is not my brother's writing.
Prisoner. Q. Can you say that this is my writing? A. No, I cannot say that—I do not know your writing.
EDWIN WEST (policeman, M 136). On Wednesday, 24th Jan., Lucas came to me at the station, between 9 and 10 o'clock—the inspector was there—some communication passed between us, and I went up the Borough in my uniform—I saw Lucas; he went into Mr. Moser's, and staid there some time—he came out, and walked towards London Bridge—he had two paper parcels—he saw the prisoner looking in a coffee shop—Lucas passed a bill to the prisoner, they crossed the road, and I went and took the prisoner into custody—I told him he must go to the station with me—there was another policeman behind me, and I told him to bring Lucas to the station—on the way the prisoner asked what he was charged with, as he said he knew nothing about it—he was told at the station what he was charged with, and he said he must do something for a living—I took from Lucas these five brown paper parcels (produced)—the prisoner gave me this invoice—the paper that I saw Lucas hand to him looked like this.
Prisoner. This order is not addressed to any one.
GUILTY .† Aged 53.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. O'BRIEN conducted the Prosecution.
niece on Sunday, 14th Jan., at Limehouse Church. After the wedding festivities were over, we were returning by a boat from Limehouse Hole Stairs—I could not exactly tell the time, but it must have been after the time of shutting up—Daniel Hurley, the father and mother, and the sister of the young woman who was married, accompanied us to the stairs—when I got on the stairs, I met the prisoner—he said, "Halloo, Timmins"—I said, "I don't know you, you have got the advantage of me"—he said, "Oh, I know you"—I said, "Are you going over the water?"—he said, "Yes"—I went into the boat and said, "Hand my mistress in, if you please"—he helped my mistress into the boat, but she and he got into the water first—we were then ferried over the water—we got out of the boat, on the Surrey side—the prisoner got out first, my wife next—I stopped, and paid the waterman the fare for all—we went down the alley, and turned down the street, making our way home—the prisoner laid hold of my wife's arm sometimes and sometimes he let it alone; my wife walked behind us two—as we got about ten yards from my house I said, "Well, my man, which way are you going? I am at home"—I was just going to say, "Good night," and at that moment my foot was kicked from under me, and he laid hold of my guard—he kicked my leg; I was obliged to go to the hospital—he snatched my watch out of my pocket; I saw it in his hand afterwards—he ran away; my guard was a silver one—it had been broken before, and was sewn together with black thread—I cannot tell where it broke, whether on the thread or where it was broken away from my neck and nothing left—when he kicked me I was obligated to fall; I had no power to help myself; my wife ran after the prisoner—I got up again as quickly as I could, and got to the top of the alley—he went round the Seven Houses, I saw him pass the top of those houses; I gave the alarm, "Stop thief!" as loud as ever I could, and ran after him as well as I could—my watch was silver, it cost me 3l. 5s.—I had been drinking some little at the wedding—I have no recollection of seeing the prisoner before that night—I have no doubt he was the man who accosted me, and did this to me—I saw him again, when the policeman brought him to my house the same night—I should think about half past 1 o'clock—he was dressed exactly in the same way as he was when I saw him first.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. In the same way that he is now? A. The same way that he is now—Hurley and his two daughters, and his wife, were with me in going to the boat; this was a sort of jollification; we had a little gin, a little ale, a little beer, and we had a little rum—I was none the worse for liquor when I went out of the boat—I was not the worse for knowledge than I am now—I do not think my mistress was a little intoxicated; she fell into the water, but that was an accident—when the prisoner first came up we were going into the boat; he called me Timmins; he said, "Is that you?" I said, "You have got the advantage of me"—he said, he had known me at the Commercial Docks twelve months ago, and he had worked for me (I was foreman of the Commercial Docks twelve months ago)—I said to him, "Are you going over the water?" and we all went over—I understand the waterman is here who took us over—he was examined before the Magistrate; he did not go before the Grand Jury—I should think my house is half a mile from the river—we met very few persons; one old man, I think—when I called, "Stop thief!" I made a great alarm; there were plenty of people round—I do not think I saw women, but there were men—my watch was gone; I have never seen it since.
husband attended the wedding of my niece, on Sunday, 14th Jan.—we were returning home to Limehouse Stairs about 10 o'clock, but I cannot say to a minute or two—some friends accompanied us to the stairs—as we got near the stairs, I saw the prisoner; he made very much of my husband, and called him by name—when we got to the stairs my husband got in the boat first, and he asked the prisoner to hand me into the boat—he took bold of my hand to hand me in, but instead of that I fell into the water—we were ferried over the water, and when we got out on the other side, we went to the stairs—the prisoner got out first, I followed, and my husband staid in the boat to pay the boatman—we went to Rotherhithe, where my husband lives—as we got near the house, my husband said, "Where are you going, my boy?" and before be spoke the word, the prisoner knocked his feet from under him, and took his watch and guard—the prisoner ran round the Seven Horses—I ran, and called, "Murder!"—I caught him by the breast of his coat—he knocked me down on the pavement—I was all out to pieces—I saw a policeman, and showed my face to him, about half past 1 o'clock, when the prisoner was brought to our house—I did not see anything of the prisoner from the time I was knocked down, till the policeman brought him—I had not seen the prisoner before 14th Jan.; I have no doubt he is the person who accosted my husband, and acted in the way I have described—I had not been drinking—I was sober.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you not been drinking at all? A. I do not think I drank half a pint of beer all day long—it does not agree with me—my husband is not a man that drinks much—I drank a drop of ale and beer, and one thing or another—I had no gin, nor rum—they were all poor people, and could not afford much—I had a drop of beer and ale, very little of that—we were all in one room, in Ann-street, Limehouse—it was not far from where we took the boat—I cannot say how far Limehouse Hole is from Limehouse Church—the mother, and two daughters, and the husband came down to the boat—when we crossed, my husband stopped to pay the boat—I waited for him—all the public houses were shirt up when we went to Limehouse Hole—the robbery happened at about half past 10 o'clock—you can come across the river in four or live minutes—we walked on from the river to our house, which is half a mile—I am sure it was not half past 10 o'clock when we were at Limehouse Stairs—I cannot exactly say whether it was a quarter past 10 o'clock, but all the houses were shut up; it must have been after 10 o'clock, but only a few minutes.
DANIEL HURLEY . I went with Mr. and Mrs. Timmins, on 14th Jan., down to Limehouse Stairs—I cannot tell exactly the-time the public houses were shut up—I met the prisoner on the stairs—he spoke to Timmins, and asked him how he was—he said, "You have the advantage of me"—Timmins got into the boat, and he said, "If you know me, hand my wife in"; and she fell into the water—I said to him, "Are you going over the water?"—he said, "Yes"—I was very glad they were going together.
Gross-examined. Q. It was your daughter that was married? A. Yes; she was married by license, about half past 9 o'olock in the morning—we went to my house in Ann-street, Limehouse; we remained together after that till we broke up at night; I should say about 10 o'clock—the drink I had I brought in on the Saturday night; two pots of porter, and three half pints of different liquors; rum, brandy, and gin, I think it was—Mr. and Mrs. Timmins had a little drop—we all went down to the boat together.
down to Limehouse Stairs on the 14th Jan.—I saw the prisoner speak to my uncle—he is the man.
Cross-examined. Q. Where did you afterwards see the prisoner? A. The next day before the Magistrate—that was the first time I saw him, after I saw him on Limehouse Stairs—he was standing in the dock.
ANN HURLEY . I accompanied my husband and my friends to Limehouse Stairs on Sunday, 14th Jan.—I saw the prisoner speak to Mr. Timmins—he is the man—I had not seen him before—I next saw him at the police station at Greenwich.
CHARLES CROUCH . I live at No. 2, Cow-lane, Rotherhithe. I was in Queen-street about half past 10 o'clock on Sunday night, 14th Jan.—I heard some one halloo out, "Stop thief, he has got my watch!"—I saw some man coming towards me—I asked him if he had got anything belonging to that man—I allowed him to pass; he went by me two or three yards, and began to run—I ran after him—I did not see his face at all; I can only say I saw his back—he was not much taller than myself, if any—I saw the prisoner at Greenwich on the Monday—I can only say that the person I saw had a coat on—I noticed his coat and his cap—he was dressed in the same coat as the prisoner was when I saw him—when I ran after the man, I saw him try to run into a doorway, and he could not—I followed him till he got to the palings—I saw him, as he ran up Queen-street, chuck something over the palings—I followed him from the bottom of Queen-street to the top of Queen-street—he then went over some palings into the back gardens—he went over into a rope ground—I saw some one running after him—I did not stop to see him: I ran after the prisoner—I do not know whether it was the man who was hallooing out—I heard the hallooing at the bottom of Queen-street.
Cross-examined. Q. You saw some man coming up the road, you followed that man, and saw him get over the palings, and you saw him throw something over the palings; do you know whether anything was found there? A. The sergeant of police found a pipe—we both went over together—the prosecutor lives in Albert's Cottages, a quarter of a mile from where the man threw something over.
MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Are the Seven Houses near where the prosecutor lives? A. Yes—I dare say I was more than 200 yards from the Seven Houses.
THOMAS PIGEON . I am potman at the White House, in Lower Queen-street. On Sunday night, 14th Jan., while at my supper, I heard a cry of "Stop thief 1" about half past 10 o'clock—that is about a quarter of a mile from where the prosecutor lives—I immediately went to the door, and saw two men running, the policeman and another—I could not identify the other man, he had his cap over his eyes—he turned down Silver-street, and I turned down too—at the time I got to the corner I caught a glimpse of him turning into Button's-place, which is no thoroughfare—he turned into the gardens, and it caused a disturbance; lights were brought, and I saw a man get over in the rope ground—I got over the rope ground, and saw him get on the tiles of the rope ground, and he went over the other side—there is a ditch and a little space of ground—I saw him slip down the tiles—I thought there was a space, but there was not—I lost sight of him for a few moments—I saw him again go over the Commercial Dock fence—I was near to him—I could touch the toe of his boot as he came down the tiles—I could not see his face, he had his cap so over it; but I saw him get over the dock fence into Commercial Dock—I got in likewise—I observed tar
on the fence, and I got in a mess by getting over—I took notice of his dress, and said to him, "I shall know you again; I can see you have either got a red waistcoat or else a red collar"—when I saw him before the Magistrate I knew him again—I observed that he had the same waistcoat on, and his hands were all tar—I saw the prisoner on the Monday, the day after.
Cross-examined. Q. This is the same rope walk that Crouch was speaking of? A. Yes—the Commercial ground is over beyond the rope ground—it is not the dock, it is ground belonging to the Dock Company—there are thoroughfares into the dock at several places, but not there—Silver-street leads to it, but there is no thoroughfare into the dock there—I saw the man go into Silver-street and Button-place—you can get over the fence, and then the rope ground is there, and the other side is the Commercial Dock fence—there is not a road on the other side—it is Mr. Duncan's garden, a private thoroughfare.
JOHN BRODERICK (policeman, M 276). On Sunday night, 14th Jan., I was in Lower Queen-street, Rotherhithe—about a quarter to 11 o'clock I heard a cry of "Stop thief!" and saw a number of persons running—I saw the last witness at the back of Silver-street, looking where the prisoner went over—in consequence of what he said, I saw a man on the top of the rope shed tiles—1 got into the rope walk—the man got over the tiles—I expected 'he would come down the rope walk, but he got down on to the fence leading to the Commercial Dock—I heard the last witness cry—I came to him, and he said he had just got over the dock—I got over the palings, they were rather tarry, and the witness and I looked over, and could not see anything of him—I then placed myself at the top of Silver-street, and remained there till near 1 o'clock—there are two entrances coming out of the dock, and I placed myself in a position to command both entrances—I could not be seen—about ten minutes past 1 o'clock I saw the prisoner coming out of Mr. Bridges' wharf, looking up and down the road very curiously—when I saw him he pretended to sham drunk, and put his hands in his pockets—I said, "Where have you been?"—he said he had had a spree at Deptford, and had been drinking with some companions—I said, "Who were they?"—he said "Nobody," he did not know nobody there—I said, "You are charged with a highway robbery; you must come with me to Mr. Timmins; if he can recognize you you must go to the station"—he said, "I did not take no watch"—I had said he was charged with taking a watch—when I got him to Mr. Timmins' house he appeared as sober as I was—when I got there I knocked at the door, and Mrs. Timmins came down with her face saturated with blood—I said, "Do you know this man?"—she said, "Yes, that is the man that assaulted me and robbed my husband"—I took him to the station house, and examined him—his trowsers were quite wet to his knees, and the front of his shirt also, and his hands were all over tar, the same as mine were—I had got the tar on my hands from getting over the Commercial Dock palings.
Q. Do you know how a person could get from where you lost the prisoner into the wharf? A. There are two entrances—it is divided in two places by separate gates—he could come back the same way he went, and he could get back over the palings into Silver-street—the place where I lost him does not communicate with anything near the water—I lost him as he was going in the Commercial Dock—on the opposite side to which he got in, the dock is inclosed with palings on this side—I got over them, and so did Pidgeon—on the opposite side I cannot say what incloses it—it is all timber piles, and a stream of water on the other side.
Cross-examined. Q. He got over the rope ground, and into the dock? A. Yes—I stationed myself at the comer of Silver-street—I know the India Arms—I should think that is about 300 yards from the Seven Houses.
Q. How long would it take to go from there to Limehouse, including the chance of getting a boat immediately? A. I should say five minutes to cross the water, and about five minutes to get to the water—that would depend on the state of the tide, and whether you could get a boat directly—if you went as quickly as you could to the river side, and jumped into a boat immediately, it would take about ten minutes; but if the tide were against you, and you could not get a boat immediately, it would take a longer time.
MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Could a person get from the place where you saw the man get into the dock, into Bridges-wharf? A. Yes, but he must come into the main road—he must go across the main road to Bridges-wharf.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Supposing him in the main road, how could he get into Bridges-wharf? A. It is an open wharf; there is no fence—I saw him walk out of the wharf to the road.
MR. O'BRIEN. Q. From where you were, could you see Trinity-street? A. No. Witnesses for the Defence.
JURY. Q. Are you the Sunday ferryman? A. No; they knock off at 10 o'clock in winter time, and we commence the night work.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you remember rowing over Mr. and Mrs. Timmins on Sunday night, 14th Jan.? A. Yes, from 10 to half past 10 o'clock—I did not notice anybody else on the shore—I took them into the boat—Mrs. Timmins tumbled into the water—she was rather in a state of liquor—they were both in a state of liquor—I did not see the prisoner there at all—I never saw the man in my life, till I saw him before the Magistrate—I will swear deliberately that I did not take that man over that night—there was nobody but me and the two persons in the boat.
COURT. Q. You did not take any third person over? A. No.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. How many did you take over that night? A. Two—I cannot say how many I took altogether—I did not keep an account—sometimes we take four over—I did not take any threes that night at all—I stopped till 2 o'clock in the morning—I took several parties of two—I might have taken a couple of fours—on my oath, I did not take a party of three—I took three or four twos and two fours—I took no ones—I came there at 10 o'clock—the ferryman was there with me—he knocked off—he left off the ferry—he was on the wharf when Timmins came over—his name is Henry Temple—he was at Limehouse Stairs when I pushed off, and he left to go home—that was my first voyage that night—it was from 10 to half-past 10 o'clock—I did not see Mr. Hurley (looking at him) to my knowledge—he did not come down to the boat with the man.
Q. Look at this woman (Mrs. Hurley); was she there? A. I did not notice; it being dark I could not recognise her; I cannot say whether she was there—the prosecutor's wife was there—I did not notice any other "woman that came down to the wharf.
Q. Look at this young woman (Mrs. Wenham); now do you mean that these three persons did not come down to the wharf, and did not Hurley shove off the boat? A. I did not see them—I was before the Magistrate
last Tuesday—I was not summoned—nobody in particular brought me there—there was inquirer about the waterman, and I went voluntarily—I did not know the prisoner before.
Q. Did any one go with you to the Magistrate? A. There were some people walking down, several parties, other folk going down to hear the case—they were all strangers to me—I saw Mr. Pelham in the Court since I was before the Magistrate, not to have any conversation with him.
Q. Did you see any friend of the prisoner when you were before the Magistrate? A. I believe there was somebody who claimed him as a relation; I believe he was his uncle—I have not seen the uncle since—I saw him on Tuesday before the Magistrate.
Q. Did you go with the uncle to the police-office? A. We went and had a drop of something to drink in a public house—that was before I gave my evidence—I first met the uncle towards the East Country Dock, in going to Greenwich—he was alone—he and I walked together to Greenwich, and we had something to drink—I was examined on the part of the prosecution.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Who directed you to be called? A. I was called by the officer of the Court, "The waterman who took Mr. Timmins and his wife over the water," and I gave my evidence, the same evidence as I have to-day—I have had no conversation with the policeman then, nor since—I saw Mr. Timmins at the Court—I had no conversation with him before nor since; no more than I have rowed him over the water occasionally—I knew Mm by sight, but not by name—I am certain he was the person I rowed over the water that night, and his wife fell in the water, and there was no one else in thg boat.
JURY. Q. Who helped her out of the water? A. I helped her out—no one handed her into the boat.
MR. METCALFE. Q. When they went away from the boat on the other Bide, was any one with them then? A. Not a soul—I had not seen the prisoner's uncle, or anybody, before I went to the Police Court—I under-stood that some inquiry had been made for the ferryman, and in consequence I went to the Police Court—there was one young man subpoenaed to attend the Police Court of the name of Ashdown; he, was a waterman, but, he was on the opposite side of the water when I rowed them over.
COURT. Q. As you were going to Greenwich you met the uncle? A. Yes; I did not know he was the man—I merely saw him going down, and it snowed very hard, and we had a drop of something to drink; it was about a quarter before 10 o'clock in the morning—I fell in with him by his walking the same road that I did.
JURY. Q. Who paid for the drink you had; did you treat the uncle? A. Yes, not knowing he was the uncle—when I rowed over the water, Mr. Timmins paid me; he gave me 4d.—if I had had three passengers I must have had 6d.—it is 2d. each on a Sunday.
JOSEPH FREDERICK BRAGGER . I am landlord of the India Arms, Trinity-street, Rotherhithe—I know nothing further of the prisoner than coming to my house—I saw him at my house on Sunday, 14th Jan.; he was there from about 7 o'clock in the evening till about three minutes to 10 o'clock, when I closed the house—he went just at the time I closed—John Watham, Henry Taylor, and John Kirk, were with him; they all went out together when I closed the house—I know nothing about the prisoner only the night he came in.
last witness's house till a few minutes before 10 o'clock—the prisoner was there, and left with me, and Taylor, and Kirk; we all left together—I only went outside the door—I left Kirk, and Taylor, and the prisoner—we stood two or three minutes talking, and then we parted—I have been over at Limehouse Stairs—I should think it would take a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes to go from where I left them to Limehouse Stairs.
HENRY TAYLOR . I left Mr. Braggart's public house, with Watham, when the house was closed—the prisoner was with us; we all left together; that was about three minutes before 10 o'clock when it closed—it must have been about five minutes past when we left the door—I went to my own room; I live close by there—I left Kirk with the prisoner—I know Limehouse Stairs—it would take about ten minutes to walk to the stairs.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Bid you know the prisoner before? A. Yes; for six years—the last time I knew where he lived was at James-place, King-street, Wapping—if he had to go home he would go to cross the water, or through the Tunnel—I should say the India Arms is a mile and a Half from the Seven Houses.
JOHN KIRK . I came out of the India Arms with the prisoner and the last witness, and Watham—I remained with the prisoner about ten minutes—I parted with him opposite Nelson's Dry Dock—we came from Braggart's about three minutes before 10 o'clock; we were talking a few minutes at the door—I left the prisoner about a quarter or 20 minutes after 10 o'clock—I do not know how long it would take to get from the place I left him to Limehouse Stairs—I left him about 150 yards in Rotherhithe—he would have to go to the Horns, at Rotherhithe, and then to cross.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Did the prisoner go home? A. He turned back to speak to Taylor—I do not know whether he saw him—he lives in Wapping.
MR. METCALFE. Q. How far is Wapping from Limehouse Stain? A. About two miles.
HENRY TAYLOR re-examined. I have known the prisoner about six years—he was always a very good character; he worked with me at Mr. Shepherd's, at Lynn, in Norfolk—I came up twelve months last Oct.; he had not left then—he had never been in any scrape—he has had employ in London—I worked with him in the New Commercial Dock.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Four years Penal Servitude.
(The witness Campion was committed to prison.)