CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
MOON, MAYOR. THIRD SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, January 1st, 1855.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; Mr. RECORDER; and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
MR. BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JOHN VIAN . I am secretary to the Agua Fria Gold Mining Company, Old Broad-street I produce a bill for 160l., dated 14th July, drawn by the managing director of the Company in California, in favour of Faulkner, Bell, and Co., our agents in California, and indorsed by them to Donald Ross—it is drawn on myself, as secretary of the Company—it would require the indorsement of Donald Ross before it could be paid—it bears my acceptance—it was brought to my office on 22nd Aug., I accepted it, and on 23rd Aug., the prisoner called and fetched it away—he asked whether it would be paid at maturity—I said that it would most undoubtedly—he asked me to discount it, but that was not in my power—it was drawn at one month's sight, and was payable a month after I accepted it, through the London and Westminster Bank—I made it payable at our bankers, the Commercial Bank.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Do you see the indorsement of Mr. Ross? A. "D. Ross"—I did not notice that when it was originally brought to me—it is not usual for bills to be indorsed before they are accepted, and therefore I did not look.
SARAH WREN . I live at No. 9, Gill-street, Limehouse. I was formerly acquainted with a person of the name of Donald Ross—I lived next door to him when he kept the Lord Nelson public house, at Limehouse—I knew
him afterwards, living at Claremont-place, Walworth—his family consisted of his wife, and one daughter, who was in her tenth year—I remember his death, on 3rd July—I saw him in his coffin, and was there at the time of his funeral—I continued to know his wife after his death—she died of cholera, on 31st Aug., having taken tea with me on the day before—she had removed to the next house to that in which her husband died, or the next door but one—I know that she had a brother in California—I saw the prisoner at the funeral of Mr. Ross.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. No; I never saw him till he was at Mr. Ross's funeral—I have had notes from Mrs. Ross, on which I have acted, but never saw her write—I should say that this signature, "D. Ross," is not her writing—I have seen it very often before—there is a note in Court with which I have compared it, and they were compared by the Magistrate at the Mansion-house—I know a woman called Aunt Peggy—she has been three months from Scotland, and has been living with me—her name is Monroe—she was sent for by the friends, and came for the purpose of taking the child—I had a note from Mr. M'Donald, telling me that the aunt would be up—I cannot talk Gaelic—Aunt Peggy talks to me in English—M'Donald paid me for Aunt Peggy's board and lodging for one week—I have not seen the Rev. Mr. Campbell, and do not know him—I have seen Mr. Ross's brother from Scotland—I can understand what he says—I have seen him here; I have not heard him say that Aunt Peggy is mad.
WILLIAM SMITH . I keep the Royal Shades Hotel, Leicester-square. I have known the prisoner some years—he brought me this bill on 23rd Dec., and asked me if I would pay it through my banker's—it is dated at San Francisco—he said that it came from California, and that he came by it unexpectedly—I did not ask him on what account, or any particulars about it—I was not inquisitive about it, or interested in it—it had some few days to run because there was a grace upon it—I consented, and advanced him 38l. at different periods in the course of those few days—there was a funeral at the time for which he wanted an advance—I afterwards, on 27th Sept., wrote him a cheque for the balance, 122l.—I think the indorsement of D. Ross was upon the bill, but I will not be certain—the prisoner, at my request, wrote his name upon it—I paid him every halfpenny—I took no consideration whatever.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he say that it had come from California, or that he had got it from California? A. I think he said that it came from California; but I cannot pledge myself to it—I have known him, I should think, twenty years—I think he was a clerk in Messrs. Campbell's, which is some great mercantile house—I knew him as frequenting my house—I never thought that he was given to drunken habits—I knew him slightly when he was a partner with Mr. M'Queen, the successor to Messrs. Campbell, but not sufficiently—I never knew anything to the contrary of his being a respectable man.
Q. I do not know whether the prisoner has consulted you about getting the child into the Caledonian Asylum? A. I never heard it till I was at the Mansion-house—I heard no application there by the prisoner's solicitor to know who the prosecutor was.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Do you know what he was for the last year or two? A. I think he was an emigration agent—he did not run up an account at B. my house for drink—I understood him to be a single man.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Had you visited at his house? A. Never but once, some years ago—I have very little knowledge whether he is married
or single, but I always anticipated that he was single—I am not single—I never heard of his being married.
MARGARET COCKFIELD . I am the wife of Christopher Cockfield, an engine driver, of No. 7, Claremont-place, Walworth. Donald Ross did not lodge there; his widow did—I knew him in his lifetime, by coming in and out; and after his death, Mrs. Ross came to my house to live—I saw the prisoner there once before her death; and about an hour after her death he came, and wished to go up into the room and see the corpse; they only occupied one room—I went up with him, and he asked me for her keys—they were lying on a box by the side of the bed—he took them, opened a box, and searched in it for some time—he said he wanted a Californian note; he could not find it—he only searched in that one box—he locked it, locked the room door, and took the keys with him—he came back next morning, went up with me, and gave me the door key to open the door—I did so, and he went in with me—he did not look about the room; he only looked in that one box—the note was found in a pincushion, in the box—this is it—he looked at it, said that it was the note he wanted, and took it away, and also a gold watch—he took nothing else—he paid me 1l. 6s., or thereabouts, which Mrs. Ross owed me—there was a silver watch and three rings in my possession, which I gave to him—lie sent a man to take away the things, and the furniture also; that was after the funeral—the funeral came to 3l. 5s. or 3l. 10s.—he paid that; he showed me the bill—he took the child away on the day of the funeral, and next day part of the furniture was taken—he came, and asked me if it was all taken away—I said, "No;" and he sent the same man again for it—I do not know where the child is now—(MR. BALLANTINE stated that the child was close by, and should be brought into Court if desired).
Cross-examined. Q. Before taking away the articles, was an inventory taken of every single thing by a person named Gunn? A. Not in the house; it was done after they were taken away, he told me—I know nothing about the prisoner paying a subscription to the Caledonian charity—I only saw him once previous to Mrs. Ross's death—I do not know whether he appeared to be very kind to her—I do not know her writing—she only lived with me five days—I only knew her as a neighbour before—when she died I sent for M'Donald, because he was a, friend of hers; she had told me so on the day that he called—she had not said anything about his being sent for.
MR. BODKIN. Q. She said so when he called? A. Yes; and I, remembering that, sent for him.
ALEXANDER CORBITT . I am butler, at Arthur's Club, St. James's-street, and was a friend of Donald Ross—he fell into distress, after keeping a public house, and went to live with his wife and child—he had no relations in London that I know of—I am acquainted with his writing—this indorsement, "D. Ross," is certainly not his writing—I knew his brother, John, who went to California—on 4th Sept I heard of Mrs. Ross's death, and, in consequence of information I received, I that same day went to the prisoner, and found him at his house, No. 102, Leadenhall-street—(I do not know whether the house is his property or not)—I asked him about Mrs. Ross's property, and what had become of it—he said that there was scarcely sufficient to bury her—it was then about half past 2 o'clock in the afternoon—he was in a beastly state of intoxication, and nothing more passed at that interview—he was in what I believe he terms the office, which is two or three stories up—I should say that it was a back room—
nobody was in the room but himself—he was tipsy, and I came away—I saw him again a week or ten days afterwards, in the same place, and in the same state—he was alone—I had heard nothing about the bill from California when I first saw him—the second time I saw him was in Nov., and I told him that I was given to understand that a bill had come from California, and asked him the amount of it—he said he would not tell me the amount; that it was not paid, and that he was afraid it never would be—I saw him after that several times, in the same place, and in the same state—I repeated my application to him about the bill, and got the same answer on all occasions, that there was scarcely sufficient to bury her.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you any of the property of the deceased? A. I have a Bible, which the deceased sent me during my absence in Scotland—I am not making any claim against the property—I have made a claim for my sister for a picture which the prisoner had in his possession—I have in former years, but that has nothing to do with this; that was for 25l.—I have not made any claim against the estate for that—I have alluded to it in conversation—I have not claimed 100l. for my sister of late years—I have alluded in conversation to 100l. being owing to my sister.
Q. The Californian bill? A. I wish I could get hold of it, and then it would be in safe custody—I am not the next of kin; I am merely a friend of the deceased—I allege a debt to my sister of 100l., and to myself of 25l.—Mr. Alexander Ross, the next of kin, is in Court, and so is Mr. Campbell—I have not been in communication with Mr. Campbell; I have with Mr. Ross—the prisoner has not communicated continually with Mr. Ross; he communicated with him once only; Mr. Ross has told me that—I am not the prosecutor of this indictment; Mr. Alexander Ross is—I heard that question asked at the police court—I do not remember hearing a refusal to tell—I do not recollect that the solicitor on the other side refused to tell—I do not swear that it was not so, but I have no recollection of it.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was it at Mr. Alexander Ross's instance that you interfered? A. Latterly it was—I interfered because I knew the family so well, and knew that she was the last of the family, and having just come from the north of Scotland myself, where I saw both the parents, Mr. Ross's mother and Mrs. Ross's mother—Mr. Alexander Ross came up to London at my request; he accompanied me to the prisoner, and we were refused admittance; I looked through the key hole, and saw the prisoner sitting drunk in a chair—Mr. Ross also attended before the Magistrate—my sister lent the Ross's 100l. when they went into business some years ago, and I lent Mr. Ross 25l. seven or eight years ago, when he came to me in great emergency: but I have given it up years ago—I did not prefer any claim, certainly not.
HENRY WEBB (City policeman). I took the prisoner on Wednesday, 6th Dec., at No. 102, Leadenhall-street, on the fourth top floor—it was a back room, I believe; two Irishmen, who were not known to me, were in the room with him, and a child—he was drunk—the place was in a very dirty state—he told me that he was not occupying any other part of the premises, and his housekeeper told me so likewise—the prisoner has the lease of the house, and lets it out in offices—it is up a gateway, opposite Billiter-street—I told him that I apprehended him on a charge of forging the name of Donald Ross, to a bill for 160l., and afterwards uttering it—he said that he did not forge it, and that he had acted entirely through the instructions of his solicitor, Mr. Mayhew—after some considerable time I got him down stairs, and took him to the police station in Bishopsgate-street—on the road there,
I asked him if Mr. or Mrs. Ross had left a will—he said, "No, but I have nothing to fear, as I saw Mrs. Boss endorse her husband's name on the bill before she died"—I searched him and found four sovereigns, and two keys in his pocket—on his being taken back from the Mansion-house on one of the examinations, he asked me to give him some sandwiches—I went and saw his housekeeper, and told her that he required some sandwiches—I then went and told him that I had desired her to bring him some; he said it was a bad job, he certainly had received the money and spent part of it, but in the course of a week the whole of the money would be invested in some funds for the child.
Cross-examined. Q. Has not he had a fit of delirium, tremens? A. Yes; he had seven in one night at the police station.
ALEXANDER ROSS . I live in Boss-shire, North Britain, and have come up to London on this business. I am the brother of Donald Ross—I arrived on 3rd Dec., and saw Mr. Corbitt; I went with him to Leadenhall-street to see the prisoner—I attended at the Mansion-house, when the charge was preferred against the prisoner—I saw the child the day I was at M'Donald's, but I have not seen her since—an application was made to the Magistrate for the production of the child; the prisoner said nothing upon that—they did not produce the child.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you desirous to take the child back to Scotland? A. Yes; it is for that purpose that I have come to London—I have a relation, who is called Auntie Peggy; she came up for the child; she was sent for by the prisoner—I did not recommend that she should not be trusted with the child—I did not consider that she was a proper person to be trusted with the child—M'Donald said that Auntie Peggy would whip the child, and throw it into the sea; and that the child would not come home with her till uncle Sandy came for her; that is myself—Auntie Peggy had come to London before me—she was a proper person to be trusted with the child—I suggested in the letter that she should be entrusted to the stewardess—I have only had one letter from M'Donald, which I think Mr. Campbell has—the other letter was not to me, but to Mr. Campbell—I think Mr. Wontner has that—this (produced) is the letter to me—(This was addressed to the witness from the prisoner, dated 5th Sept., 1854, informing him of the death of Mrs. Ross, that he had paid all expenses, and intended sending the child to the Scotch school; that the child wished to stay with the witness, or with her grandmother, Mrs. Monroe, until her admission to the school was accomplished, and 'that when she grew up she would be entitled to 100l., and requesting to know the witness's wishes with respect to the child)—Mrs. Monroe is Auntie Peggy—on the receipt of that letter I went to the Rev. Mr. Campbell, the minister of our parish, who afterwards corresponded, for a length of time, with the prisoner—he is here—I know that M'Donald also wrote to the grandmother—(MR. BALLANTINE here stated that the child was now in Court).
MARGARET MONROE . I have been in London on this business since 16th Sept.—I have seen the little girl just now—I have been endeavouring to find her often, since I have been in London—I was always looking for her, but could not find her—I went to the prisoner for the child, and he said he never would give her up, or anything belonging to her; that he would not give me a stitch of her mother's clothes, and told me not to lay a hand on them—I said, I ken'd that there was plenty of clothes, and he said that there was not.
Cross-examined. Q. The child was with you for a week? 4. Yes—she
did not run away, but she would not come back again—she was lodging in the same lodging with me, at Limehouse, for a week—that was after the death of the mother—it was the week I came up—I found her in the lodging—I live in the same parish with Mr. Campbell, in Scotland—he did not advise me not to come up—I did not see him—they call me Aunt Peggy—when I came up to London, I went to the prisoner's, and the prisoner immediately came to me, to where the child was living—he left me there, and paid for the lodging—I took the child to him one day, and she would not return—I was not for her to stop with him—I wanted her with me, and she would not come—I had not corrected or whipped her, I had no occasion—I never laid a hand on her.
MR. BALLANTINE to ALEXANDER ROSS. Q. In consultation with Mr. Campbell, was it Dot considered by you and him that Mrs. Monroe was not a proper person to have the child? Did not Mr. Campbell consider that she was not a proper person to have the child? A. I do not know—I was not there—I never heard that Mrs. Monroe had occasional fits of mental derangement.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you know of Aunt Peggy coming up to London on this business? A. Yes—I told her that it would be better for her to stop a few days till we got another letter—I wrote for the child to come home as soon as I got that letter—Mr. Campbell told me that Aunt Peggy's mother was sometimes deranged—her mother is not my mother—the prisoner said nothing to me about it.
RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I produce seven 10l. notes from the Bank of England, Nos. 59416 to 59421, and No. 59424, all dated 5th July; three of them came into the Bank on Sept. 29th, one on Sept. 30th, one on 11th Oct.; two on 27th Nov., and one on 6th Dec.
GUILTY of uttering. — Four Years' Penal Servitude .
NEW COURT.—Monday, January 1st, 1855.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. KENNEDY, and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM HOOPER . I am in the employ of Mr. Firth, No. 2, Aldgate, a woollen warehouseman—I know the prisoner—he carried on business as a tailor in White Rose-court, Coleman-street—he had dealt with Mr. Firth—on 13th Oct. last, I called on the prisoner to solicit orders—he told me he wanted a nice smart doe skin about 4s. a yard—he had given me an order for black beaver in Sept.—we send out goods on approbation, when parties
are in want of these things; we send them in about the price they mention and they can return the goods if not approved—this beaver and doe skin were sent on approbation to the prisoner—he held out a ticket and said, "I am coming out in this style," and on the ticket was "Bumble's guinea trowsers"—I believed the statement he made that he was coming out in that style—I called on him again a day or two afterwards, and he said he thought it would do—the black doe skin he said he should like damped—it was sent back to be damped, and was sent to him again; that was what he had on 13th Oct.—I believed his statement about the guinea trowsers—I had no other inducement to let him have those goods, but that he had dealt with us before.
COURT. Q. Supposing he had said he wanted so much doe skin, without saying anything about guinea trowsers, would you have let him had it? A. Yes.
THOMAS BONEY . I am of the firm of Boney and Newton, woolen warehousemen—the prisoner dealt with us—he said he wanted a black beaver from 6s. to 7s.—he said he wanted it to make up boys' coats, as he worked for a great many families—he selected a piece—I believed the statement he made that he wanted it for boys' coats, and that he was working for a great many families—he took thirteen yards at 6s. 9d., and said he wanted another that he was obliged to make better; I showed him a better, and he selected thirteen and a quarter yards—he then said he wanted another piece of black doe skin, the same as the last, alluding to one he had of me before; I told him I had not one at the same price—when he bought the first piece, he said he wanted it for guinea trowsers—he selected eventually thirty-eight yards of the last piece I showed him—he said he had sold almost all the previous one to boot makers to make ladies' boots—the goods that he alluded to were sold on 5th Oct.—we had not done business with him very long, and I called on him on 5th Oct., and sold him some goods—a bill that we had drawn on him before, was due on 4th Oct.—I had sold him these goods on the 5th, and I intended not to have sold him any more—I was induced to part with the goods on 26th Oct., because I believed the statement he made was true, and that he wanted them for coats and guinea trowsers—I had not intended supplying him again, and three weeks had elapsed, and I had not called on him—the amount of the goods he obtained on 26th Oct. was 20l.—I have seen the duplicates of the goods he had on the 26th, and of the goods he had on 5th Oct, that he said he had sold to boot makers.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. How long had he dealt with you? A. About seven or eight months—he had had six or seven transactions with us, but only two or three of importance—during that time we had sold him goods on credit—our terms were the running month, a clear month and two and a half per cent., or a three months' bill—he had paid but very little during the time he dealt with us, just little accounts, such as, perhaps, 30s., that he might send the lad with—the 26l. bill became due on 13th Oct.—he took up that bill, and on 26th Oct., he came again for more goods—I intended not to let him have any more goods—if he had not said anything about trowsers, I should have let him have the cloth, as he had called.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did the representation that he made to you, operate on your mind to induce you to part with your goods? A. It did—I have a partner—I should have conversed with him about them—I should have had a hesitancy—I said nothing to my partner—the statement he made about making coats and making trowsers did away with my hesitancy—on
13th Oct., he paid us a 26l. bill—he owes us about 50l. altogether, including those goods on 26th Oct.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Suppose that on 26th Oct., Mr. Rumble had walked into your shop, and asked for those goods, would you have sold them? A. I should have hesitated, and consulted my partner, if he had said nothing about the coats and trowsers.
GEORGE HAWKINS . I am assistant to Mr. Anderson, a pawnbroker. On 27th Oct., I received in pawn from the prisoner, this doe skin for 6l.—this is the order he sent to me "Sir, please have the kindness to oblige me with the loan of 7l. on thirty-nine yards of doe skin. Richard Rumble."
ROBERT ROSIER . I am shopman to Mr. Reeves, a pawnbroker, in Red-Cross-street. I took in this beaver on 27th Oct., from a person that the prisoner sent—I received this order from Mr. Rumble; "Sir, be kind enough to supply me with 6l. on these thirteen yards of black beaver. Richard Rumble"—I supplied him with 4l.
WILLIAM BARKER I am assistant to Mr. Green, a pawnbroker, in London-wall. I produce this cloth, which I took in on an order from Mr. Rumble; "Sir, have the kindness to oblige me with 4l. 10s., on thirteen yards of woollen dyed black beaver. Richard Rumble."—I lent 3l. 10s.
THOMAS BONEY re-examined. This black beaver is what we supplied to the prisoner on 26th, and this thirty-eight yards of doe skin, it generally runs a yard and a half over; and this thirteen yards of woollen dyed black beaver.
Cross-examined. Q. Is this black doe skin similar to what you supplied? A. Yes—I had not sold him some of the same before—it was at a different price—there was a fag end to this, but that has been cut off—such cloth could have been supplied by other persons in the trade—I do not swear to it positively; but it is the same sort.
MR. PARRY. Q. Are these articles like what he had? A. I believe this to be the one he had; I am not sure about it—this thirteen yards of black beaver I know by a pattern that I have.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. Nearly twelve months—he was a customer of mine, and I trusted him—he has made an assignment of all his effects to his creditors—there was a meeting of his creditors, and every one declined to have anything to do with it—he made an assignment of his estate and effects to me, and I accepted it, and took possession of the effects, what there were—these duplicates were brought to me by him or his attorney; they were both present—I knew nothing of the pawning, till he called and told me—he brought me the duplicates that they might come in as assets.
MR. PARRY. Q. What was the amount of the assets? A. Perhaps 50l. or 60l.—the amount of his debts was about 1,100l.—I think the date of the assignment was 8th Nov.—he has pawned goods, in the last few months, to the amount of 184l. 6s.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
(There were two other indictments against the prisoner, on which MR. PARRY offered no evidence.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 53.— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined
PLEADED GUILTY . Recommended to mercy.— Confined Two Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, January 2nd,. 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FAREBROTHER; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; and Mr.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
HENRY KNUBLEY . I am a basket maker. On 5th Dec. I was at the King's Arms, Market-hill, Shadwell—the prisoner was there, and two women with him, drinking—one of the women gave me some gin and water—a mate of mine then gave some ale that went round—we were all good friends up to that time—the prisoner went out, and brought in a mate of his—I do not know that man's name—I then paid for two more pots of ale—I put down my pot behind me, and when I looked for it it was gone—I thought somebody had taken it—the prisoner afterwards came with a glass of ale to offer me as a recompense—I said, "You may keep it," and tried to chuck it over him—I believe some of it did go over him—he had a comforter on—he took it off—I expected he was offended with me, and he wanted to fight—his mate came and caught hold of me right round the arm, and I was quite helpless—I sang out for help, and his mate let me go when two men came out of the tap room—I went towards the prisoner, and made a hit at him—I had my fists up in a fighting attitude—I struck him on the top of the nose, and as I struck him he ran a knife into my belly, right in the lower part of the groin—I did not see the knife in his hand when I went towards him, I did afterwards—the potman caught hold of me round the back, and would not let me go towards him any more—I was taken to the hospital, and remained there three weeks.
Prisoner. He struck me twice. Witness. I only struck him once—I did not try to strike him more than once.
COURT. Q. How long had you and he been drinking there? A. About three hours—we had all been drinking a good deal—the prisoner was fresh—he had been drinking all the afternoon, not in my company—there was not much noise—I am quite sure I did not strike him twice.
DANIEL LEAY . I am potman at the King's Arms. I saw the prisoner and prosecutor drinking there—Bailey went out and brought in a shipmate, and they had some more drink—they were drinking there from about 9 o'clock till 11 at night—the shipmate called for a pot of ale—Knubley said that was his pot, and there was a wrangle between him and the prisoner about it—I saw Knubley throw it over the prisoner's face, and strike him on the nose, close alongside the beer engine—the prisoner went back, and
Knubley followed him up to the front door, and struck him once or twice more—the prisoner then drew his knife, and stabbed him in the lower part of the belly—it was a spring back knife—they were fresh in liquor—they had been drinking all the afternoon.
JAMES LAWRENCE . I was house surgeon at the London Hospital when Knubley was brought in, on 5th Dec., between 11 and 12 o'clock at night—I found a wound in the lower part of the abdomen; it had evidently been inflicted by a sharp instrument, about one-third of an inch in breadth; the depth could not be ascertained, it had gone through the walls of the abdomen—it was just over the seat of the bladder, in a dangerous place—he was under my care about three weeks—the bowels were not punctured; he had acute inflammation come on next day, and he was in a dangerous condition for a week—we despaired of his life for a time; he was very drunk indeed when he came in—that would be very likely to assist in bringing on inflammation.
EDWARD DILLON (policeman, K 213). I apprehended the prisoner on the night of the 5th, at a coffee house in Shadwell—I told him I took him for stabbing a man; he said, "I think he gave me quite as much as I gave him; I was first insulted by him, having a glass of ale thrown in my face, I had a knife in my hand, and I do not deny that I shoved it through him"—he said the knife was taken out of his hand by another man, and thrown into the river Thames.
Prisoner. I do not know what to say; I have no witness; I know no one at all, I am a stranger.
GUILTY> of unlawfully wounding . Aged 20.— Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined Three Months.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES GRAY . I am clerk to Messrs. George Edward Eyre, and Mr. Spottiswoode, printers, of No. 189, Fleet-street; they are printers of the Bible to Her Majesty. I have known the prisoner about six years, as being in the service of Messrs. Leighton and Co., the binders—he was frequently in the habit of coming to the shop for Messrs. Leighton—on or about 7th Dec., he came there about 4 o'clock in the afternoon; he said he had a friend going to Australia, who wished for a good family Bible—I gave him a catalogue and a specimen of types to show to his friend—he went away with them, and returned in about half an hour—he said his friend was not particular to price, but wished a really good Bible, and would I let him have two for his friend to select from, and he would return one in an hour, and pay for the other—I said I would do so—I was very busy then, and told him to call again—he said he would, and he did in about half or three-quarters of an hour—I said I was not ready for him yet—he said he was going round to Messrs. Leighton, in Harp-alley, where he should be about half an hour, and he would then return for them—while our man was gone
up stairs to bring down the two quarto Bibles, I said, "Are you still in Messrs. Leighton's employ?" wishing to make myself very sure upon that point—he said, "Yes," he was—as we knew him when he used to drive the cart, I asked him about his change of occupation, and he said he preferred the in-door occupation now, but at first it had affected his health—I had seen Messrs. Leighton in the mean time, and himself too; he had been to our warehouse, and I understood he was warehouseman to Messrs. Leighton—I then delivered him the books—I did not see him again until the morning of the 19th, when he was in custody—if I had known that he was not at that time in Messrs. Leighton's service, I certainly would not have delivered him the books; the two were worth 3l. 12s.—he never returned them.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Was one worth more than the other? A. One was 2l., and the other 1l. 12s.—he did not ask me what he should charge for them—I gave him the trade catalogue to know what they would cost him, and left the price he would charge to his friend to himself—I did not tell him he might charge two guineas for the one, and two and a half for the other—I know Messrs. Leighton's place of business very well, there was formerly an entrance in Harp-alley—I cannot say whether there was at the time—I always used to go in at the Harp-alley entrance—I have not been in Harp-alley for three or four years—I am quite certain he said he was still at Mr. Leighton's—he said at the station house that the Bibles had not been parted with, and he could bring them if he was allowed to go to the place—I did not hear him say so when he was taken—the two Bibles came back on Saturday last by the Parcels Delivery Company—the cheaper of the two has the mark of 25s. in it, since it left our warehouse—that was after he was committed; with the exception of that mark they are not in any way the worse.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did he explain this mark of 25s. to you? A. He said nothing to me, but that he could return them, that he had not parted with them—I said I could not speak to him in the matter, and there was no conversation—1l. 12s. was the price we should charge a bookseller to sell again—I have not seen the prisoner since the Bibles were returned—I cannot say the exact day that the Bibles were obtained.
MR. PAYNE. Q. What time was it when you finally let him have the books? A. Between 5 and 6 o'clock; nearly 6 o'clock I should think—. we close at 7 o'clock—no mention was made about our time of closing, nor did I say, "You may bring it back to-morrow."
MR. CLARKSON. Q. You have been open every day since, I suppose? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. When did you first give any information, or have any measures taken to have him apprehended? A. On the 18th; I gave information to Gaylor—that was the first step I took.
ROBERT LEIGHTON . I am one of the firm of Leighton and Co., bookbinders. The prisoner has been in the employ for many years; first as a carman, and latterly as packer and warehouseman, and confidential messenger—he was discharged about the end of Sept.—he has never been in the employ since.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he leave you, to set up in business as a greengrocer? A. Yes—I do not know whether or not that answered—he came to me afterwards in great distress, and I took him back; that is between three and four years since—we then took him as an in-door servant—he had previously been carman—he left us last either at the end of Sept., or very early in Oct.—he has a wife and children.
COURT. Q. Did he leave of his own accord, or did you discharge him? A. I discharged him for reasons.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he tell you when you took him that he could get them in an hour if you would let him? A. He did—the books are not here, they are at Messrs. Spottiswoode's.
COURT. Q. Why did you not try to recover the property? A. I did try—I went to pawnbrokers and different places—he did not tell me where they were—I did not ask him—his wife said she would let me know where they were.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows:—"I have nothing to say.")
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. CLARKSON and PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES GRAY . I am in the employ of Messrs. Eyre and Spottiswoode—I knew the prisoner to be in the employ of Messrs. Leighton, of Harp-alley, Shoe-lane, bookbinders—about 7th Dec, he came to me and said that he had a friend going to Australia, who wished for a good family Bible; I gave him a catalogue and a specimen of types; he went away with them, and returned in half an hour, saying that his friend wished a really good Bible, and would I lend him one or two for his friend to select from; he said that he was not particular about the expense—I said I was very busy then, and he said he would call again—he returned in about half an hour, and I was not ready for him, having been much occupied—he said that he was going to Messrs. Leighton's, in Harp-alley, where he should be about half an hour, and then he would call again—he came again—I sent one of the men up stairs to get the Bibles—one was worth 2l., and the other 1l. 12s.—while he was bringing them down, I asked the prisoner if he was still in the employment of Mr. Leighton; he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he liked being in the warehouse better than in his old situation; he said he did; that he did not like the in-door employment at first, but now he liked it much better than the out-door occupation—I then delivered the two Bibles to him; one was to be returned, and the other paid for—I never saw him again till he was in custody on the morning of the 19th—if I had known that he was not in Mr. Leighton's employ, I certainly should not have allowed him to have the Bibles—I believed the statement that he made, and that he was in Mr. Leighton's employment—inquiries were made at Mr. Leighton's—I then gave information to the police, and the prisoner was apprehended—I was not present, but I was sent for, and he said, "Mr. Gray, I meant no harm, I could return the books in an hour"—the books were returned last Saturday afternoon by the Parcels Delivery Company—this (produced) is one of them; it is worth 1l. 12s. to the trade—"25s." is marked in the corner of it.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. It was not till he had gone away and come back again, that he casually said that he was going to call at Leighton's? A. He said that the last time he came in—I am sure he said he was going to Leighton's, in Harp-alley—the entrance is in Shoe-lane, but the premises are in Harp-alley—as far as I know, that is the only entrance now—I cannot say for certain on what day the books were obtained.
MR. PARRY. Q. He told you in the first instance that he would return one of them in an hour? A. Yes—the statement about returning them both, was after he was given into custody.
COURT. Q. You had made up your mind to let him have them before you put the question whether he was in Mr. Leighton's employment? A. No; that was why I did not bring the books myself—I sent the man up in order that I might have an opportunity of making the inquiry—it was on his telling me that he was in Mr. Leighton's employment, that I let him have the books—I did not intend to part with the property in the books, unless one was brought back, and the other paid for.
(MR. PAYNE contended that in order to find the prisoner guilty, the Jury must be of opinion that Gray had parted with the property in the books; whereas it appeared by the evidence, that he never intended to doso, except on the terms that one book was to be returned in an hour, and the other paid for, and that the only false pretence was that he had a friend going to Australia, which had not been negatived; and that the Jury could not now find the prisoner guilty of larceny, as they had decided that it was not larceny by their former verdict. The COURT considered that if the verdict of the Jury in the former case was founded on the belief that the prisoner did not intend to keep the books when he obtained them, but that he afterwards retained them with a view to deprive the owner of them, then it would not be right to ask them to come to a directly opposite conclusion in the present case: but if not, and if they believed that Gray was induced to part with the books by the false pretences the prisoner made, it was still open to them, on the clearer evidence now given, to find the prisoner guilty of larceny.)
NOT GUILTY .
WILLIAM TACKLEY . I am a tailor, of No. 88, Upper-street, Islington. On 18th Dec., about a quarter to 12 o'clock in the day, I was opposite St. Ann's-lane, waiting at a crossing for a cart to pass—I felt something against my left side, looked round, and saw a lad with my handkerchief in his hand, which I had had in my pocket behind—it was the prisoner—I ran after him, and he was stopped four or five yards off by a gentleman who is not here—I never lost sight of him—he was only two yards from me when I first saw him running from me—I gave him in charge with the handkerchief—I saw another boy running away—the prisoner begged me to forgive him and let him off.
JOHN SCOTT (City policeman, 156). On 18th Dec. I was coming along St. Ann's-lane, and saw Mr. Tackley pull out a handkerchief; this is it (produced)—I saw the prisoner stopped, and took him into custody—he begged Mr. Tackley to forgive him, and said that if he would he would never do so again—he said that at least twenty times on the way to the station.
GUILTY . Aged 15.— Judgment Respited.
(The officer stated that the whole family were the associates of thieves).
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, January 2nd, 1855.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. KENNEDY; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined One Year.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Nine Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
LOUISA CRUMP . I am barmaid at the Pump public house, in Paul-street, Lisson-grove. On Wednesday evening, the 6th Dec, the prisoner came and asked for half a pint of beer; I served him, and he gave me a shilling—I took it to Mr. Stroud, and gave it him—it was bad—I told the prisoner I thought it was bad, and gave it to my master—he bent it, and I went in the parlour.
Prisoner. Q. Did you go for a policeman? A. No—I do not know how long it was before the policeman came—I do not know whether you stayed and smoked your pipe.
WILLIAM STROUD . I am the landlord of the Pump public-house. On Wednesday, 6th Dec, the last witness brought me a shilling—I examined it—it was bad, and some stuff came off it—I said to the prisoner, "You ought to know better than to bring me such a shilling as this; I have had a great many pass through my hands"—he paid for the beer with a penny—he did not go away; my mistress wanted him to go, and he would not—I sent for an officer as he was rather saucy—I gave the shilling to the officer.
Prisoner. Q. Had not I an opportunity of going away if I liked? A. Certainly; but you would not go—I suppose it was five minutes before the policeman came—I do not know whether you smoked a pipe; you drank the beer.
WILLIAM WALKER (policeman, D 184). I took the prisoner—he said, "I did not know it was bad"—I got this shilling from the landlord—I searched the prisoner, and found in his right hand pocket a bad sixpence, two good sixpences, and some halfpence; and in his left pocket two sixpences, a 3d. piece, and some halfpence—this is the bad sixpence.
Prisoner's Defence. I went to market on Tuesday morning, and as we keep our market money separate, I put it in my pocket; they told me the shilling was bad; I paid with a penny; I did not know the shilling was bad; I must have had time to go away if I had known it was bad; I had had a drop to drink, and did not know what I was doing.
GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES SKINNER . I am a coal dealer, and live in Gloucester-street, Haggerstone. On 13th Dec., about 7 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came, and wanted a quarter of a hundred of coals and a bundle of wood, to go to No. 5, Gloucester-street; they came to 5d.—she gave me a crown piece, and I gave her four shillings, a sixpence, and two halfpence; she left, and in leas than two minutes I walked up to the light, and found the crown was bad—I kept it in my hand, and ran after the prisoner directly—I gave the same crown to the policeman after I had put a mark on it—this is it.
Prisoner. I was not nigh the shop. Witness. You were.
WILLIAM GEORGE TOWNDROW . I am a greengrocer, and live in Crown-street, Finsbury-square. On 14th Dec. the prisoner came to my shop for a quarter of a hundred of coals and a bundle of wood, to be sent to No. 9, Clifton-street; they came to 5 1/2 d.—she gave me a crown piece—I found in about ten minutes that it was bad—I looked at it, and put it into the scale—I marked it, and put it into a bit of paper—I gave it to the policeman on Tuesday last.
Prisoner. I was not nigh your shop. Witness. You were.
WILLIAM LOCKTON . I am a greengrocer, and live in Margaret-street, Haggerstone. On 21st Dec. the prisoner came, about half past 9 o'clock at night—she asked for a quarter of a hundred of coals, and a bundle of wood—they came to 5d.—she told me to take them to No. 45, Dove-row, which is directly at the back of my house—she paid me with a crown—I showed it to my wife, and found it was bad—I told the prisoner so—she said she was not aware of it, and she stated that a gentleman gave it her—my wife came to the door, and we thrust the prisoner into the shop, and detained her till a policeman came.
Prisoner. Q. What did you do with the crown? A. I walked to the parlour door, and showed it my wife, and she gave it to me—it was not out of my sight—it was only into my wife's hand, and back into mine—I saw it all the while.
Prisoner. When I was in the cell, one of the gentlemen came, and was asked if I was the woman; he said "No" at first, and afterwards he looked at me with my bonnet on, and said, "I think it is."
GEORGE TOWNDROW re-examined. I said so at first, but it was impossible for me to see her in the dark—when I saw her in the light I said directly that was the woman—she first stood in the corner of the cell; I could not see her, but I saw her plainly when the money was uttered.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined One Fear.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
in first, about half past 9 o'clock in the evening—he asked to look at a pair of boys' blucher boots—I showed him a pair, and told him the price was 5s. 6d.—he said he would have them, and he gave me a sovereign—I examined it; it was a good one—I was certain of it, and it was of the reign of George the Third—I placed it back on a shelf, where I generally place gold—it was apart from any other coin—I gave him change, 14s. 6d.—I laid it on the counter—I wrapped up the boots in a bit of paper, and when I was about to give them to him, he said that, on second thoughts, he would not have them; he would bring the boy to the shop to be measured—I gave him back the sovereign—I am positive it was the same, and it was good—the 14s. 6d. still remained on the counter—at this moment the prisoner Daley came in—I had noticed him looking in as the window before Hudson came in—he placed his foot on the counter, and said, "Serve me with a pair of shoes as quick as possible"—Hudson then said, "If these boots don't fit will you change them?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "Then I will take them"—he took them, and the change, and gave me a sovereign—I imagined it was the same I had had before, and I put it in the same place where I had placed the other—Hudson left the shop, and Daley was standing all the while with his foot on the counter—I then looked at him, and said, "I have nothing to suit you"—he said, "I must have a pair to-night," and he left the shop immediately—I knew him before—he had been in my shop on three other occasions—when he had gone I looked at the sovereign, and found it was bad—it was not of the same reign as the first one; it was a Victoria, and a bad one—I ran out to try to find the prisoners, but I did not find them—I sent for a policeman—I showed him the sovereign—I marked it, and locked it up—I ultimately gave it to the policeman, but I had before marked it, and locked it up, and I found it locked up again, and my mark on it—this is it—it has my mark on it—I am positive it is the one I received of Hudson—on 9th Dec. I was sent for to the City-road—I found four men there, and amongst them were the two prisoners—I pointed them out, and they were taken into custody.
Hudson. I was never in your shop; I do not remember ever being in your shop. Witness. Yes, you were.
COURT. Q. How long did Daley stop in your shop after Hudson went out? A. About half a second.
ALFRED HAWKES . I was in Mr. Arnold's shop—I saw Hudson come in—I am sure he is the man—he bought a pair of boys' boots, for 5s. 6d., and he laid down a sovereign—I saw Daley looking in at the window, and then he came in and asked for a pair of shoes.
ISRAEL WATTS (policeman, N 184).) I produce this sovereign, which I received from Mr. Arnold—on 9th Dec., from the description I had received, I recognised the prisoners in the City-road—I sent for Mr. Arnold, and pointed to four men, and he pointed out the two prisoners.
Hudson. There were five or six more men. Witness. There was Daley, and three or four others, talking with you for half an hour.
Hudson's Defence. I was walking down the City-road, and five or six men came to me; the policeman came and took hold of me, and took me to the station; I know nothing about the prosecutor nor his shop; I never remember being in his shop.
HUDSON— GUILTY . Aged 32.
Confined One Year.
DALEY— GUILTY . Aged 19.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN CHAPPLE . I am a draper, of Harrow-road. On 16th Dec. the prisoner John Jolly came, about 9 o'clock in the evening, and bought a pair of men's unbleached cotton stockings—they came to 4 3/4 d.—he gave me a bad shilling—I said, "This is a bad one"—he said, "Is it? I must have taken it for herrings"—he had a basket with a few herrings—I broke the shilling in two, and he paid me with a good half crown—he took away the broken shilling with him.
John Jolly. Q. You said you did not like the appearance of it, and did not I tell you to break it up? A. Yes, and you said you must have taken it of some one for herrings.
CHARLES SILVESTER (policeman, D 197). On Saturday evening, 16th Dec., I saw the prisoner John in Mr. Chappie's shop—I watched him—he came out, and joined Jane—they went down the Edgware-road, to John-street, into Crawford-street, and on to Upper Baker street—John there went into a greengrocer's shop, and bought some potatoes—I saw him come out, and one of my fellow-constables went in—when John came out he joined Jane again—the other constable then came out of the shop, and he and I jointly took the two prisoners—I found 2s. 6d. in silver, and 3 1/4 d., on John, all good, and he had a basket, and some herrings and potatoes—when he was taken he said, "Oh, dear, I have done it for life! but don't hurt the poor woman, for I have brought her into it"—I asked Jane where the stockings were that her husband had bought—she took them out of her pocket, and said, "Here they are"—these are them.
John Jolly. You asked me what money I had, and I said, "I suppose you think you are going to do for me for life, but I have got nothing on me." Witness. You said, "I have done it for life."
GEORGE SNOOK (policeman, D 242). I was near the greengrocer's shop in Baker-street, on that night—I saw John Jolly come out of the shop, and join Jane—I took Jane into custody—I noticed she had something in her hand—I asked her what she had got in her hand; she said, "Nothing"—she put her hand behind her, and threw a shilling on the ground—I picked it up—it was bad—this is it—I then opened her hand, and found one shilling, one sixpence, and 1 1/2 d.; the halfpence were good, the shilling and sixpence were bad—I took her to the station, and she took a canvas bag from her pocket containing seven sixpences, three shillings, and a half crown, all bad—when I took her she said, "Oh, Johnny, it is not my fault, you dragged me out"—and he said, "I ought to be hung."
John Jolly's Defence. I am perfectly innocent of the knowledge of any other coins; the shilling I had was bad; I know nothing of this coin at all.
Susan Jolly's Defence. On that Saturday evening my husband came in, and asked me to go with him to "buy a second hand pair of shoes; we went to the Harrow-road, and he met a man that I thought was a baker; I went on, and when my husband came I said, "Why did you keep me in the cold?" he said, "Never mind, here is a pair of stockings," and he gave them to me; we went on to Seymour-place, and he said, "Wait here while I go up Stingo-lane, to see if I can get a pair of shoes;" I stayed I should say ten minutes, and a respectable man came to me, and tapped me on the
shoulder, and said, "You have dropped this;" I turned and said, "No, I have dropped nothing;" he said, "Take it, it belongs to you;" he put it in my hand, and left me; my husband came in about two minutes, and I said, "Have you bought your shoes?" he said, "No, come with me;" I said, I wanted to go home; I looked in the paper that the man gave me, and it was money; my husband went into a shop, and the policeman came and touched me, and said, "I want you," and he took me into custody; they then took my husband; I said, "If there is anything wrong it is unknown to me;" I knew not before they were put in my hand that anything was wrong.
JOHN JOLLY— GUILTY .* Aged 48.
SUSAN JOLLY— GUILTY .* Aged 48.
Confined Eighteen Months .
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Four Months .
212. GEORGE GIBSON, SAMUEL CORNISH , and JOHN PASK , breaking and entering the dwelling house of William Gardner, and stealing 24 engravings, 1 handkerchief, and 1 glaziers' diamond, value 18l. 12s.; his property. 2nd COUNT, feloniously receiving the said goods.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM GARDNER . I am a carver and gilder, of No. 10, City-road, in the parish of St. Luke's. On the night of 27th Nov., as is my usual custom, I saw that my house was properly fastened up—the next morning I found two of the doors and the back window were open—they had forced the moulding off one door, and pushed the door open, and by the use of a chisel somebody had opened the window—there was a hole cut through the second door, by which a person could introduce his hand and undo the bolt—I missed twenty-four engravings, worth about 20l., a glaziers' diamond, and some money—some of those engravings were valuable—three of them were worth four guineas each—these are them—I know Gibson—he worked for Mr. Cook, who has the lower workshop—he could get a knowledge of my premises.
HENRY JAMES ADAMS . I am a pawnbroker, in Wentworth-street, Whitechapel. On Tuesday, 28th Nov., the prisoner, Gibson, came to me—he had nothing with him—he asked me if I wanted to buy any pictures—I told him no, we were not in the habit of buying anything, we took in pledges—he came in in rather a flurried manner, which excited my attention—I told him I would look at the pictures, and he left—in about half an hour a person came—I cannot recognise either of the other prisoners as the person—he brought a parcel containing the pictures in a bag—he laid the parcel on the counter, and left it with me—in about half an hour Gibson came again, with two other persons—I think Cornish was one, but I should not like to swear it—Gibson said, had I looked at the pictures—I told him I had, and that I feared he had not come honestly by them, and if they were stolen to give up such a vicious course—I declined to have anything to do with them, and they all went away—Gibson had said that he wanted 3l. for them, and whoever bought them would have to put them by for a short time, but he would make a d——good bargain; he might make 5l.
THOMAS EVANS (policeman, G 145). From information, I took Gibson, on Tuesday night, 5th Dec., in a coffee house in Whitechapel—I told him he was charged with stealing some pictures from Mr. Gardner, in the City-road
—he said, "Oh, very well"—Mr. Adams identified him as the person who brought the pictures to his shop—on the way to the station, Gibson said, "This is my first time; I offered them at the pawnbroker's for sale; you won't find out that I offered them anywhere else"—on 12th Dec., I took Cornish into custody—I explained the charge to him, and mentioned Gibson's name—I told him it was for being concerned with Gibson in stealing some pictures—he said, "Gibson gave them to me to take to the pawnbrokers, and I afterwards sold them at a coffee house, in Whitechapel, for 8s."—I found this handkerchief on Cornish's sister—she said her brother gave it her—I took Cornish into custody at his sister's.
CHARLOTTE CORNISH . My husband is a carpenter; we live in Elizabeth-place, Cambridge-road. The prisoner is my son—in the beginning of Dec., Gibson came with my son to my house—there was another man with them—it was not Pask—Gibson asked me to pawn some brushes for him, and a glazier's diamond—he said the things were his own property—I pawned them for 8s., and gave Gibson the money and the ticket, and he burned it.
Gibson. The linen that Mr. Gardner lost she had, and burnt it. Witness. No, I did not.
JOHN HENRY CRIND . I am a picture frame maker. At the latter end of Nov., Pask came to my shop—he brought these twenty-two engravings—he asked me 12s. for the lot—I declined to buy them—he took them away, and brought them again in half an hour—I then purchased them—I told him I would give him 10s. for them, I should have some money in the morning—he left the engravings, and came in the morning—I then gave him a half sovereign—I disposed of them afterwards to Mr. Pashley—Pask told me he had met two young chaps in the street with the engravings, and bought them—I had known him a long while.
Pask. Q. Did you not give me a character? A. Yes, for honesty, I can.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Has Pask been employed by you? A. No; but he has been employed in the same shop that I work in, at Mr. Pashley's, to whom I sold the engravings.
JOHN PASHLEY . I am a picture frame maker, in Black Lion-yard, Whitechapel. I purchased these engravings of the last witness for 13s.—I kept them in my possession till the policeman took charge of them—I occupy some workshops, and let a portion of them—I have known Pask, he has worked there three or four years.
COURT. Q. Did you look at these engravings? A. I did; but I did not look at them particularly—he said, "There are some pictures, will you buy them?"—I said, "What do you want for them?"—he said, "15s."—I said, "I don't want them, I will give you 13s. for them," and he took it.
Gibson's Defence. I offered them at the pawnbroker's, but as to where they came from, I am innocent; Mrs. Cornish and her son pawned the things, and the duplicates were burned in their room; the linen that Mr. Gardner lost, was burnt in their room.
Cornish's Defence. When the money for the goods was brought in, Gibson received it; I pawned the goods for 3s. 6d., and he put the money in his pocket; he said the things were his own.
Pask's Defence. I bought the pictures of Samuel Cornish.
GIBSON— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Eighteen Months .
CORNISH— GUILTY on 2nd Count. Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months .
PASK— NOT GUILTY .
(There was another indictment against the prisoners, on which no evidence was offered.)
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, January 3rd, 1854.
PRESENT—The LORD MAYOR; LORD CHIEF JUSTICE CAMPBELL; Mr. JUSTICE CROWDER; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Lord Chief Justice Campbell and the Third Jury.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and COXON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM THOMAS AUSTIN . I live at No. 178, Prospect-place, Maida-hill, Edgware-road. I know the prisoner—I believe him to be a jeweller—about the middle of Aug. last, I ordered him to make a signet ring, to weigh 8 dwts. of gold, to be hall marked, of the standard of 18 carats fine—the price was to be 3l.—the prisoner resides in the Goswell-road—I gave him the order in his shop—he told me he would execute the order—he produced a bunch of sizes, made of wire; and after fitting a great many upon my finger, I got one that fitted, and pointed it out to him; he then put a small piece of paper on the size, and sealed it with a bit of sealing wax, and stated that he would have the ring ready within a fortnight—I chose an onyx stone to put in the ring; that was to be included in the 3l.—I called again at the shop at the time appointed, within a fortnight—it was near the latter end of July—I do not recollect the exact day—I saw him in his shop—he said, "I am not ready for you yet"—I asked him what he had done in the matter—he said, "I will let you see"—he went into a place at the rear of the shop, and brought out the ring—I believe this (produced) to be the ring—it was then in a coarse state, and without the stone—I fitted it on my third finger—I told him that the size answered, and handed it back to him—he said it was ready to go to the Hall to be marked, and that it would be detained some time—there was no mark on the ring at that time—he told me to call between the 10th and 11th of the following month—I said I would call on the 11th—I did call on 11th Aug.—I did not see the prisoner on that occasion—I saw Mrs. Nunn, the prisoner's wife—the ring was then produced by Mrs. Nunn; it was in the same state in which it now is, with the exception of this piece being cut off; it has been tested at the Hall—this bill of parcels was delivered to me by the prisoner's wife, with the ring—I paid 3l. for the ring—I afterwards found out that the mark was not correct—about three weeks ago I showed the ring to Mr. Cogswell, a pawnbroker, in Copenhagen-street, Islington—he is here—before that I thought that it appeared very much obliterated—I was buying an article of Cogswell, and I asked him his opinion of the ring—I saw him looking at it as it was on my finger—in consequence of what Cogswell said, I went, next day, to Goldsmiths' Hall, with the ring—I there saw Mr. Sharp, the deputy warden of the Company.
Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS. Q. Pray, what are you? A. I live private, at present—I have been in Government employment, from the year 1832 until latterly—I am nothing at present—the last Government employment was as superintendent of convicts in the island of Van Diemen's Land—before that, I was an inspector of police in the town of Manchester—I was not sent out from there; there was an interval—if you will allow me to refer to my papers, I will tell you how long that interval was—I think it was from 1841 to 1843—I was then undergoing the necessary routine of discipline at the New Model prison, Pentonville, to fit me for the office of superintendent of convicts in the island of Van Diemen's Land—I went there to qualify myself for the office—I was a warder there—I went there voluntarily—I made the application upon receiving my appointment—I was not there two years; I was there about eleven months—I got the appointment, and went to Van Diemen's Land, upon the recommendation of the Rev. Mr. Russell, one of the General Inspectors of Prisons at that time—I got the appointment at the end of the eleven months—between that time and my departure, I was waiting for the appointment—I was about three months waiting for it—I did not start immediately—I was doing nothing between the time I actually got it and my starting—I left Van Diemen's Land on 8th Aug., 1845—I have not been living private ever since my return—in the first instance I received half pay from the Government, on returning here—between 1845 and the present time, I have been in communication with the Archbishop of Dublin and the then Lord Lieutenant, upon the subject of convict discipline, and drawing up a scheme for the management of the convicts—that is not all that I have been doing to gain my living—I have been twice employed by the Government since I came home, for three months at a time; I got 15l. each time—I have got my living in different ways—I do not mean to say that the 30l. was my ostensible means of living—I have 65l. a year, an annuity in right of my wife—my wife is dead—it is not payable at the Bank of England; it is a private annuity—that is not the only means I have had of living, except the two sums of 15l. each—I have had means from my brothers and relatives—that is the way in which I have lived—I have never been a rent collector—I have never collected rents for any one—I did not first become acquainted with Mr. Nunn by going to collect a portion of rent that was due to his landlord, Mr. Young—my friend, Dr. Young, with whom I have been acquainted and intimately connected, was the medical attendant of Nunn's family—Mr. Young purchased a diamond ring from Nunn; and he told me, if I wanted anything, Nunn would be a proper person to apply to—I do not know whether Nunn owed him a debt—I never applied for it—I now live at No. 187, Prospect-place, Maida-hill—I have lived between No. 10 and No. 178, for the last two years—my wife has been dead since-1850—in 1851, I recollect lodging at a Mr. Nightingale's—Mrs. Austin was not living with me there—I will swear that there was not a Mrs. Austin lodging with me there—there was a lady lodging with me there—she passed as my wife, by the name of Mrs. Austin—that was a Mrs. Murray—Mrs. Murray is at present residing at No. 1, Matilda-street—she passes by the name of Mrs. Murray—I believe she did live at No. 7, Dorset-crescent, New North-road—in point of fact, I know she did—she lodged there—she passed by the name of Keymer there, her maiden name—I visited her constantly, and sometimes staid all night, and two nights together on one occasion; but then she was in a dying state—I believe where she lodges now, in Matilda-street, she passes by the name of Keymer—I have never represented myself
there to be her brother-in-law, never, to any person, I distinctly swear I have not—I cannot say what she may have said, but I will swear distinctly that I never represented myself as any connexion whatever, more than to be the friend of Mrs. Murray—I have never heard her mention to the people of the house what connexion or relation I was of hers—she was ill while she was at Matilda-street—I went to order this ring last July—in July, 1853, I was not at Bow station—I was at the Thames police court, and that for a charitable act, and immediately moving under the direction of Mr. Cowan, the member for Edinburgh—it was on a charge of obtaining a guinea by false pretences from Mr. Frederick Soames—I did not go under any pretence—I went in my proper person, without any pretence whatever—I went according to the fact—Murray preferred such a charge against me, that is, the husband of Mrs. Murray—I had got the pound, and handed it to Mrs. Murray—that was not at the time I was living with her as her husband; she had then ceased to live with me as my wife—she was then living at South Ockenden, in Essex, with her family—Mr. Murray was a schoolmaster at South Ockenden—I believe they had four children—I believe the eldest was thirteen years of age—Murray's distress was such that he had neither clothing, nor a bed to lie upon for a period of three years—I was written to by his wife to go and see the position they were in, and to know if I could do anything to assist them out of it; and his youngest child was dying at the time—I went down—I never took Mrs. Murray to live with me as Mrs. Austin, but when I went down on that occasion I asked Murray what could be done under the circumstances—he said, "If you wait on my friend Mr. Cowan, on my behalf, and explain what you see, I think he will assist me"—he wrote a letter, which he wished me to take to Mr. Cowan—on the following day I went to the Reform Club, saw Mr. Cowan, and represented the state of distress and destitution Murray was in—he said to me, "I gave him some money to go down there some time ago; I am sorry to hear of his state of distress; what can be done?"—I said, "Sir, it appears to me that Mr. Seymour Clarke, at the King's-cross station, will have regard to your application, and in all probability you may get him a clerkship there; I will be the bearer of any letter, and will explain the circumstances to Mr. Seymour Clarke for you"—he said, "Well, that is very good"—I said, "The next consideration is that he should be put in a way to come to show his qualifications to Mr. Clarke"—he asked me how much would do it—I said I could not say exactly, but they were in a very distressed state—he said, "I will draw up a document; Mrs. Murray is highly respectable in her connexions, and I will place 5l. as my subscription"—I said, "Very well; I shall wait upon Mrs. Murray's friends, Fladgate and Clark, of Craven-street, and the Rev. Mr. Drummond, the executors"—I waited upon them, and upon seeing Mr. Cowan's document, Mr. Fladgate said, "Murray is a very bad man, and nothing will I notice except what emanates from the clergyman of the parish where he has been residing for the last three years"—I then said, "Under the circumstances, I will go down and bring you a certificate from the minister of the parish"—I went down, and saw both the rector and the curate—the curate said, "I am sorry to hear that Murray and his family are in such utter distress; but the fact is, he has been here for the last three years, as I am informed, and I never heard of his being outside his door; what can I say for him?"—when I explained matters, he wrote upon this document that such a person was in the capacity of village schoolmaster, and that he heard nothing against his reputation during the time he was there—he sent him 5s., which was delivered
to Mrs. Murray and her children in Murray's presence—the curate told me that he wanted to take his female child to have her educated by his governess, but Murray refused, and said the curate wanted his child for sinister purposes, and he would not allow her to go there—I returned with that statement to Mr. Cowan—I went to Mr. Fladgate, and from this representation he sent a guinea for the use of Mrs. Murray—the Rev. Mr. Drummond, of Charlton, her executor, also sent her a guinea—I went and delivered those sums over to her and to Murray, and as soon as he got it, with a portion of clothing that I brought him, he ran away, and left his wife and children at the Tillage of South Ockenden—the consequence was, that she was turned out of the place with her children—the money I got from Mr. Soames I handed over to her, with which she came to town—she made application to the Lambeth authorities—Murray was found, and made to take his children—Mr. Cowan gave him employment, and when he heard of the conduct he had pursued, having his name brought up at the Police Court, and all that sort of thing, he dismissed him from his place in Thames-street, and Murray left, and has not since been heard of—I have not lived with Mrs. Murray from that day to the present—it was previous to 1851, that I lived with her—I was told that Murray had been three years without a bed to sleep on, and when I went there I saw neither bed or bed clothes—he and his children slept indiscriminately on the bare floor—I did not know Murray until Mrs. Murray sent to me, stating the distress they were in—Murray was examined at the Police Court, and I called Mrs. Murray as my witness—I did not refuse to give my address at the police station—there was a remand, for the purpose of obtaining Mr. Cowan—I did refuse to give my address and for this purpose, until Mr. Soames was sent for to sign the charge sheet—I explained to the inspector that it was a vindictive and virulent proceeding on the part of Murray to prefer this charge, for which there was no foundation, and at that time I was living at No. 4, Kingsland-road—the charge sheet is there, which will show the date when I was first before the Magistrate—I was remanded to the following Tuesday, and for this purpose, I expected that Mr. Soames would come forward and sign the charge sheet, and I intended, if so, to remain under detention to make the charge of false imprisonment against me more complete than it would otherwise be—I remained in custody until the following Tuesday, and was then discharged—I cannot tell exactly how long I remained in custody, I think it was from the Saturday until the following Tuesday or Wednesday—I went to the House of Detention, Clerkenwell—when I came up again on the Tuesday, I might have refused to give any address; I could not swear that I did; Mr. Soames and Mr. Murray were examined; and I called Mrs. Murray to prove that she wrote to Mr. Soames to acknowledge the receipt of a sovereign, as Murray had at that time deserted her, and that he was not present to receive what was forthcoming—Mr. Soames said he could not swear whether he received the letter or not, but that he might have done so; and Murray admitted on that occasion before the Magistrate, that the clothing he was then wearing was what I had given to him—I recollect buying a case of pistols in the Goswell-road, for the sum of 3l.—that was about two or two and a half years ago; there was the crest of a nobleman upon them; I wanted to have that removed, and my own initials put on—I applied to an engraver of the name of Halliday, to know to whom I should go to have it carefully done—he recommended me to a house in Northampton-street, and I went up to a garret there—I found some working
men there, more than three—I asked to have the marks taken off, and one of them immediately agreed to do it—it was done while I waited, as I was particular about it.
Q. In the course of talking with the person or persons there, did you mention that it would be a good speculation to go out to Australia and make sovereigns? A. I have not the most distant recollection of any such conversation—I will swear distinctly that no such conversation passed—I was not ten minutes in the place—I was there on two occasions—I swear distinctly that no such conversation passed on either occasion—I did not go there on a third occasion; never but twice, to the best of my knowledge—to the best of my knowledge I was never there except on the two occasions, to get my guard chain mended, and to get the pistols done; no such conversation took place, or ever entered my head—when I went to get my guard chain mended, I stated that it had been cut at the Eagle Tavern—I said that I suspected it was done with such nippers as they, the chain makers, usually work with; not such nippers as thieves used, I never saw one—I have seen instruments used by thieves, but I did not see the instrument that was used upon that particular occasion.
Q. Do you understand much about gold, the standard and all that, connected with it? A. I understand that there is eighteen carat gold, and twenty-two carat—I had not purchased any article of Mr. Nunn previous to the ring being made—I recommended him two sisters as customers, to make a purchase—there was no gratuity given me for that recommendation—I do not remember recommending any other person who made any other purchase—I stated to Nunn that a third sister would be likely to make a purchase of him, if he would wait upon her and show her some of his jewellery—I was not to have a gratuity for that; the things they wanted were not to be standard gold of eighteen carats, there was no stipulation of that kind; I am sorry that there was not, for they turn out to be very bad—I recollect giving the precise directions as to the eighteen carats—I do not think I repeated my orders more than once that it was to be eighteen carats—he unquestionably said it should be so—I gave directions that he should have the ring made of standard gold of eighteen carats fine, which I believe to be the standard usually in use—I knew it from public accounts; I have seen an account given in the London Journal, of the hall mark, and the usual letters used, and all that sort of thing—I cannot exactly tell you when I saw that; but I have seen it—I might have seen it before I gave the order; I had decidedly—I cannot tell you when it was, but I was always led to believe that by having any particular article of jewellery hall marked, it is beyond all question or doubt a genuine article, and that was the prominent reason why in getting that ring made, I wished to have it done—I said "eighteen carats fine"—the expression "fine gold" I have seen very early in life—I was never in the jewellery line—I said it was to be hall marked, and eighteen carats fine—I named that the stone was to be an onyx, but left the selection of it to Nunn—I fixed the precise weight 8 dwts.—I had not knowledge enough of jewellery to know what sort of solidity a ring of 8 dwts. would present—I fixed upon 8 dwts. because I thought the size of my finger would afford a substantial ring, and I thought that would be large and strong enough—I never weighed any jewellery, so as to know what sort of thing a ring of 8 dwts. would be; it was mere guess—when I called according to appointment, it was the prisoner who brought out the ring from the back of the premises—I put it on my finger, and fitted it, and said it would answer; I then took
it off and looked at it—the prisoner remarked to me that it was then ready to go to the Hall to be marked, which would take some time—upon my oath, the words he used were not that it would take some time to finish it—I swear distinctly, if I was to appear before my Maker, these are the words he expressed to me distinctly, that the ring was then ready to go to the Hall to be marked, and that it would take some time to do it—he did not say that it would take some time to finish—I did not inquire how long it would take to finish—he said, "I will have it done by the 10th or the 11th"—I said, "As I have no other business in this neighbourhood from where I live, I will say the 11th, and do not disappoint me"—on the 11th, after leaving Mr. Nunn's shop, I took it and had it weighed at the next surgeon's shop, Mr. Roper's, I think—in consequence of not seeing the prisoner to receive the ring from him, I went into Roper's shop, and had it weighed—there was a young gentleman in the place, and I asked him to weigh it, and he did—it weighed more than 8 dwts.; I cannot exactly say how much it weighed, but it was beyond the 8 dwts.; that was the stone and all—I had it weighed just for my own information—before I left Nunn's shop, it occurred to me (though I did not express anything) that they did their work very slovenly at the Hall, as I could discover nothing plain in the mark with the exception of the number 18 and the crown; and it also occurred to me that the particular parts that were not plain, might have occurred in the finishing of the ring after it left the Hall—I did not know what I should find besides the number and the crown—I did not know what the precise mark of the Goldsmiths' Company in London was—I had read the account in the London Journal long before that, but could not bear in mind what the particulars were—where the mark of Her Majesty's head ought to he was not plain—it was about three weeks ago that I went to the pawnbroker's and showed him the ring—the pawnbroker was not a friend of mine—I considered it a friendly action to give me a candid opinion—I had never seen the man before, and when I appeared at the police office, I did not know his name—I stated that I had shown it to a great many persons—some valued it at nine guineas—I stated at the police court that I had shown it to a friend of mine who had found out that it was an old mark, but he said it wad a good ring—I meant Cogswell, the pawnbroker—he told me that late in the afternoon, and I went to Goldsmiths' Hall the following day—I do not know that the very day I went to the Hall, Mrs. Murray went to the prisoner's shop—I will swear positively that I do not know it—on Sunday evening last she confessed to me that she did go there—it was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon that I went to Goldsmiths' Hall, as near as I can remember—I cannot say that Mrs. Murray had been to the prisoner's shop that very morning—I believe Mrs. Murray is not here—I saw her the same night that I had been to the pawnbroker's.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Whether Mrs. Murray went to the prisoner's shop or not, did she go with your consent, or with your knowledge? A. Not with my consent—I was never in Mr. Roper's shop before—I went there to get the ring weighed—my wife died in June, 1850—I was originally intended for the medical profession—I was never apprenticed—my uncle was in the profession—after being with him some time I entered the Irish Constabulary—I remained in that for six years—I quitted it on my own account—I was never charged with any offence while I was there—from there I went to Manchester, on preferment, under Sir Charles Shaw—I remained there three years—I then went to the Model Prison—there was
never any charge, or any suggestion, to my prejudice there—I went from the Model Prison, after a short interval, to Van Diemen's Land—I remained there for two years—when I came home I was placed on half pay, up to the expiration of my agreement, which was to serve Her Majesty in the island of Van Diemen's Land for three years—I did not come home on account of any charge affecting my integrity or honesty—I have collected the duty on hops for the Inland Revenue upon two occasions, in 1849 and 1850—that was only temporary—I have an annuity in right of my wife, and also the assistance of my friends—I was never a collector of rents—I first became acquainted with Mrs. Murray about five years ago—I was at that time living apart from my wife—Mrs. Nash is my landlady, under whom I have lived for two years—with the exception of the matter at the Thames police, I was never charged with any offence in my life.
(LORD CAMPBELL inquired whether MR. CLARKSON had any evidence to corroborate this witness as to what passed between the defendant and himself. MR. CLARKSON replied that he had not, and as LORD CAMPBELL expressed an opinion, in which the Jury concurred, that corroboration was required, MR. CLARKSON at once withdrew from the prosecution.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Justice Crowder.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK WILLIAM TICKLE . I reside at No. 32, Brewer-street, St. Pancras. On 22nd Dec., between 1 and 2 o'clock, I was in the New-road, and saw a truck wheeled by a boy, who I at first thought was my own son, who wheels a similar truck and dresses in the same way, which made me pay attention to him—I saw him forty or fifty yards before I came to him—I was meeting him, and walked on the kerb till I came within two yards of him, and then a gentleman passed me—I then saw a van, driven by the prisoner, behind the truck, and proceeding in the same direction—the boy was within nine inches or a foot of the kerb, which was on his left all the way—there were three horses in the van—the prisoner was sitting on the box, in front; and the load was piled up on each side of him in such a manner as he could see before him, but not behind him—he told me himself that he could see the boy before he came to him—the New-road is on an incline at that part, and they were both going down hill—just as I came to the truck, I heard a sharp crack, and saw the boy instantaneously knocked between the fore and hind wheels of the van—I hallooed directly, and held up my hands to the driver, and told him that a boy was under the wheels—he began to pull up directly—he had not attempted to stop his horses before the collision took place—he could not see the collision—the road was not obstructed in any way, to make it necessary for the prisoner to drive close to the kerb—there was plenty of room for the prisoner to have passed the truck—he pulled up as soon as he possibly could, but the van proceeded seven or eight yards before he was able to stop it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Was the road very slippery? A. Yes; it is stone pavement there—this was a costermonger's truck—the deceased was pushing behind it—he had no occasion to be in front, because he was going down hill—I do not know whether he would have as much control over it in that way—the prisoner was driving two wheelers and a leader—he had the reins in his hand—the moment that the van came close to the boy, he looked up, and was knocked momentarily under the wheel—he did not turn the handle of the truck, and turn himself towards the kerb—the handle
of the truck was in front of him; he was holding it—he did not turn the truck so as to strike the waggon—I have not changed my mind upon this matter.
COURT. Q. Did the boy turn, or not? A. I should say that he did not; but the handle of the truck may have turned at the time he looked up—there might have been room for the van to have passed, if the boy had not turned—I cannot say the exact distance between the wheel of his truck and the van—I could not see between the wheel and the truck; I was on the side of the kerb.
MR. PARRY. Q. Do not tell us anything you said before the Magistrate or the Coroner; have you not, in conversation about the matter, said that there was room for the van to have passed, if the boy had not turned? A. I do not believe I have—I said, at the Coroner's inquest, that there might have been room to turn without touching the truck, if the boy had not shifted the handles of the truck; but I did not see the boy move the truck.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do you know how wide the New-road is at that place) A. I never measured it; I have been told that it is thirteen yards—there is not room for four or five vans to pass abreast; nor, I think, for four—there may be for three—there was room for the prisoner to drive without coming near the boy's truck.
GEORGE HUBERT . I had just turned into the New-road, and saw the truck and the van two or three minutes before the accident happened—I was going the same way, not meeting them, and was on the opposite side of the road—I did not see the collision—I cannot form any opinion at what rate the prisoner was driving—the van was about the middle of the road—I should say that the truck was about a foot and a half from the kerb.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the boy turn the truck? A. Yes, he turned the-handle towards the kerb, so that the back was outwards—there seemed to be something at the kerb, as if he was going round it, and was going in towards the kerb again—he was pushing behind the truck; the hind part was turned out toward the waggon—I cannot say what it was that he tried to avoid.
HENRY KIALLMARK . I am house surgeon to University College Hospital. The poor lad was brought there in the afternoon, and died the same evening, about half past 9 o'clock, in consequence of the injuries he had received, which were very serious.
JOHN ALTIN (policeman, S 77). I went to the hospital with the brother of the deceased on the night of his death. I asked the deceased if he thought that he should die; he said he did—I then asked him about the occurrence; he said that he was going towards King's-cross with his barrow, within ten inches of the kerb; that he did not see Pickford's van coming until it got close to him; that the fore wheel of the van touched the wheel of his truck, and threw him between the two wheels of the van, and dragged him about twelve yards along the road—he said nothing about the road being up hill or down hill—I saw the van; it was heavily laden on each side of the driver, and behind him.
WILLIAM HILL (police sergeant, S 39). I was on duty at Pratt-street station when the prisoner was brought in—the charge against him was entered by me—I asked him how it should occur; he said that he saw the boy in front of him, who was going the same way as he was, and as he got up to the boy, a cab came by, which caused him to go nearer to the truck—I said, "Then you sacrificed the boy's life rather than drive into the cab?"—he said that if he had driven into the cab he should have had to pay for it.
Cross-examined. Q. It was your expression about sacrificing life? A. It was—he did not say in which direction the cab was coming.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
MARY PAGE . I am the wife of Henry Page, of No. 1, Garden-walk, Willow-walk, Shoreditch. I knew the deceased, Elizabeth Hyson; the prisoner was her daughter—seventy-two was the age upon the deceased's coffin—they had both been living with me for six years and a half; they used to quarrel very frequently at times—on Tuesday, 14th Nov., about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I was alone in my front parlour; the prisoner and her mother were at home in their room, the first floor back—I could not hear anything which took place in the room unless I was listening—I did not hear anything, but the prisoner came down into my room very much excited, and said, "I think I have given the old devil her death blow"—I said, "What have you been doing?"—she said that she had stuck a pair of sharp pointed scissors into her mother's hand—I said, "Oh, dear! how came you to do so?"—she said, "She had been teasing me, because I was so long over my bonnet; she would interfere with me and my bonnet"—I said, "What is that on your hand?"—she said, "It is some of the old woman's blood," and took up her apron and wiped her hand—I said, "Pray do, Sophia, put on your bonnet and go out;" but before that she took up my scissors, I being at needlework, and said, "I have scratched her across the hand, in that position"—I did not think it a very serious matter, and did not go up, nor did I on the Wednesday; but on Wednesday the prisoner came and told me how bad her mother's hand was—I asked her what she had done to it; she said she had put some dripping to it—I said, "Pray do not put that to it any more, put a poultice to it;" and she did so—on Wednesday night she told me that her mother's hand was very much worse, and was full of pain—I told her to apply a warmer poultice, and to send for a doctor in the morning, and she did so—on the Thursday morning, before the doctor came, I went in to see the old lady, and I never saw such a wound in my life; it was on the back of her hand, across these three bones—the deceased said, in the prisoner's presence, "The girl has done this;" the prisoner said nothing to that—a doctor came, and attended the deceased from this time—she died on the 19th—the prisoner remained with her mother till about the Thursday week, and was then sent away by order of the doctor, and a nurse came from the workhouse.
Prisoner. I think it was on the 7th that I hurt my mother's hand, it was the day after Guy Fawkes day; my mother lived six weeks after I hurt her hand. Witness. It was on the 14th, Tuesday; I am sure I saw your mother's hand on the Thursday, before the doctor came.
Prisoner. On the Tuesday I did it, and I went and said to my mother, "Poultice your hand;" and she said, "Go away."
FRANCES ROYAL . I am a nurse in Shoreditch workhouse. I was sent for in Nov., to nurse the deceased; I cannot say the day—the doctor saw her every day—on the day she died, I had gone away to the house for my food a short time before, and left Ann Deeson with her; when I came back I found that she was dead—I believe that was on 19th Dec.
ANN DEESON . I am a widow, of Appleby-street, Shoreditch. On the day the poor woman died, T called to see her about 11 o'clock; I found her in a dying condition, and she died shortly afterwards—she said nothing at all to me.
PETER LODWICK BURCHELL . I am a surgeon of Kingsland-road, Shoreditch. I know the house where the deceased lodged; it is in that parish—I was sent for on 16th Nov., and found a wound on the back of her right hand, about an inch or an inch and a half in length—there was a good deal of erysipelas about it, and a commencement of sloughing; that condition kept getting worse, until she sunk on 19th Dec.—I did all I could to save her—when I first went, I found that the wound had been poulticed—I saw the prisoner on every visit; she said that she had done it—that wound was the primary cause of death, it produced erysipelas, which went on to mortification—there was a post mortem examination of the body, and there was no other cause of death—erysipelas is a very common effect of a wound on an old subject.
COURT. Q. What was the nature of the wound? A. It was deep; but I saw it two days afterwards, and could not form any positive opinion about it, because erysipelas had set in, and the hand was very much swollen; it was a gaping wound—I should consider that it had been done with violence from what I have been told since—it was through the skin, but did not go to the bones—a pair of scissors dragged across the hand would have produced such a wound.
Prisoner's Defence. I did the best I could for my mother, and a lady advised me to poultice it; I understand that my mother was opened, and that she was found to be sound; I did not know till I was brought here that my mother had died in consequence of her hand, as she did not die sooner.
Witnesses for the Defence.
JOHN BROWN . I am a weaver; the prisoner is a cousin of mine. I have merely come to state her insanity—I have known her all her life—she has not been fit to live with her mother for some years past, but it was her mother's wish—she came out of Peckham mad house, she has been there twice—the last time was eight or nine years ago.
Prisoner. Ten years ago.
Witness continued. She did not come out cured, but she was not bad enough to be in the asylum—it was the wish of the parish to have her under their care, but her mother wished to have her with her—before that, she was confined in Miles's mad house, and she has been in St. Lukes' mad house; that is about twelve or fourteen years ago—her mother was a poor woman for the last thirty years, and always lived on charity—fifteen or sixteen years back the prisoner was in service, and used to give a portion of her earnings to support her mother—for the last eight years the mother has been expected to die day after day, and the prisoner being so excited, they used to worret one another—I have not been at her mother's house for the last seven or eight years, but the prisoner has been at my house over and over again.
Cross-examined by MR. RYLAND. Q. Can you tell us when you saw her last before 14th Nov.? A. About two months before, at my own mother's—I have not seen her for two months.
COURT to PETER LODWICK BURCHELL. Q. How long did you see the prisoner at her mother's, before you ordered a nurse? A. A week—I have known her some years, and she has always been somewhat eccentric, but I was not aware that she had been in a lunatic asylum until after her mother's
death—her conduct was so queer, that it was my opinion that she was not in her right mind, and I ordered her to be removed—her conduct appeared strange on 23rd Nov., and I considered that she was not in her right mind; she treated the wound violently, and pulled it about roughly in my presence, and talked at random about her mother—she said that she had always said that she should be the death of her mother; that her mother was more like a beast than a woman; and I made up my mind that she was not a proper person to be there—that expression did not appear to me to come from a person of sound mind—I did not know at that time that she had been two or three times in confinement.
COURT to MARY PAGE. Q. You say that they lodged at your house six and a half years, did you continually see both of them? A. Sophia I saw daily, but not her mother, as she was not able to come down stairs—at times the prisoner was very bad in her mind, and would not speak for six months, or talk at all; at other times she was very high and very excitable—I am sure she was not in her right mind when she done her mother's hand, because she was so excited when she came and told me—I do not think it was done in anger, or spite, or that it was a premeditated thing at all—on various occasions we had been annoyed by her—sometimes she would get up in the night and sing; on another occasion she put a saucepan on her mother's head; at another time we had not a bit of rest, because her cat stopped out all night; but they always paid their rent well, and therefore I overlooked all those things—on one occasion she was very violent, my husband had to go up and take her from her mother's throat, or else she would have choked her.
Prisoner. That was when we first came to you. Witness. I am quite convinced that she is not right in her mind—she is a single woman, and is forty-five years of age.
NOT GUILTY being insane.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday January 3rd, 1855.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER, and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .
Aged 18.— Four Years' Penal Servitude.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CARNEY . I belong to the schooner Darlington, lying in the Thames, opposite Union Stairs. On 31st Dec. I was out late; I came on board about a quarter past 1 o'clock in the morning of the 1st Jan.—when I got on the deck I saw a man come out of the forecastle—it was one of the prisoners—I cannot tell which—I did not lose sight of that man till he was in custody, almost immediately afterwards—I saw another man at the bulwarks, who was the other prisoner—I could not see his face—that man was
taken into custody directly afterwards—I did not lose sight of him till he was taken—the man who came out of the forecastle went towards the bulwarks, where the other man was, and I saw him heave something over our bows—there was a boat lying alongside, but we did not see it till afterwards—I called a man and a boy out of the forecastle—with the exception of that man and the boy, and myself, there was no person on board, except the two prisoners, only us five—the man who came up was Bradley—he followed the two prisoners, and I saw him struggling with Taylor on board the inside vessel in the tier, and I saw Donovan on board that vessel, forward, hidden under some ropes—I am sure he was the other man, whom I had not lost sight of—the police boat was going by, and the prisoners were given into custody—I went down into my own ship, and also into the boat of the Auckland—on going into that boat, which was moored to our bows, I found these two pairs of trowsers.
Taylor. Q. Where were you when you first saw us? A. It was directly I stepped on board the vessel—I am not aware of anything being missing out of our vessel—I cannot say what was thrown over the bows, or whether it went into the boat or into the water.
JOHN RIGG BURDON . I am master of the Auckland. I was called up on the morning of 1st Jan. by one of the seamen belonging to the Darlington, who brought these two pairs of trowsers on board—this pair is mine—I had taken them off the night before, and laid them on the locker when I went to bed—this other pair were hanging on a nail in the steerage—they belong to the mate.
JOHN JUDGE (Thames police inspector). I heard a cry of "Police!" and went on board a vessel—I saw Carney and Bradley holding the prisoner Taylor—I went forward, and found Donovan concealed under some rope on board the inside schooner—I am sure he is the man—after pulling him out from under the rope, he made a violent kick at one of the men—I asked him how he came there—he said he came there to sleep—I asked Taylor how he came there, and he said he came off in a boat—I asked how he came in the boat, and he made no answer—I went on board the Auckland, and received these two pairs of trowsers.
COURT to WILLIAM CARNEY. Q. When you saw Bradley struggling with Taylor did you go to him? A. Yes; I joined him and helped him.
Taylor's Defence. We were! not found in the vessel where the property was lost, nor did they find the property on us.
Donovan. He says he saw something roll over the vessel; he cannot say whether it went into the water or not.
TAYLOR— GUILTY ; Aged 22.— Confined Two Years.
DONOVAN— GUILTY . Aged 23— Confined Six Months.
(Judge stated that Taylor had been fourteen times summarily convicted, and once committed to Newgate, but the prosecutor did not appear.)
OLD COURT.—Thursday, January 4th, 1855.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Justice CAMPBELL; Mr. Justice CROWDER; Mr. Ald COPELAND; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. KENNEDY; and Mr. Ald. ROSE.
Before Lord Chief Justice Campbell and the Fourth Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution. CHARLOTTE BENNETT. I was servant to Mr. George Moore in Dec. last. He resided at No. 73, Warren-street, Fitzroy-square—he was a soda water manufacturer—he was at home on the evening of 8th Dec. last—Mr. Moore, myself, and his grandson, who is eight years of age, resided in the house—there was nobody else in the house besides Mr. Moore, his grandson, and myself, about half past 8 o'clock, on the evening of 8th Dec.—about that time I heard a knock at the front door, and a ring at the bell—I opened the door, and it was the prisoner, in company with a female—I had seen the prisoner before, when he came to repair the engine—I could not distinguish the features of the female—the prisoner asked if Mr. Moore was at home—I told him that he was—he was in the back parlour—I showed the prisoner into that room—he and the female both walked in—I do not know whether the door of the room was closed after they went in—I went up stairs directly after they went in—about ten minutes afterwards my attention was attracted by a noise in that room—upon that I came down stairs, and saw the prisoner, and the young woman next, and Mr. Moore next, all coming out of the parlour into the passage—I was then two or three stairs up from the passage, coming down the stairs—they had not all three come out into the passage when I first saw them; they were coming out of the room—Mr. Moore was not doing anything at that time—I ran to the front door with the intention of opening it—I was in the act of getting it open, when I saw a pistol in the prisoner's hand, and he put it to Mr. Moore's head—it was nearly up to Mr. Moore's head when I saw it—the prisoner was nearly close to Mr. Moore at the time—I saw the pistol fired off while it was in the prisoner's hand—I then ran out—I did not see what happened after that—I ran out into Warren-street—the prisoner ran out too after the shot was fired—there is a small iron gate beyond the house door in Warrenstreet—when I got to the house door there were some persons standing round that gate—the prisoner did not go through the gate; he ran back into the house, and bolted the door—I was left outside on the steps—I heard him bolt the door—among the persons who were outside the door at the time I was bolted out, there was one named Charles Collard—I spoke to him, and told him that I thought Mr. Moore was shot—I asked him to run round to the New-road, as I thought the man would get out the back way—he ran directly—he was a greengrocer, and lived next door; he kept a small greengrocer's shop—there is a back gate to Mr. Moore's premises, which leads out into the New-road—about an hour after I had been bolted out, I was let into the house—I do not know who it was that unbolted the door; I think it was a policeman who let me in, but I am not sure—when the door was opened I saw my master lying dead in the passage.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. I think you said that you had Seen the prisoner before; had he more than once come to your master's house? A. Only to repair the engine—he was employed by my master to repair the engine for manufacturing soda water—I never saw him conversing with my master upon those occasions.
COURT. Q. Had he been employed more than once? A. Yes, upon two occasions.
MR. COLLIER. Q. But he had come to the house more than twice before? A. Yes, about half a dozen times before this—my master was not present upon either of those occasions—I never saw him speak to my master.
COURT. Q. For what purpose did he come upon those other occasions? A. To repair the engine—he came twice to repair the engine, and as often as he came it was about the engine.
MR. COLLIER, Q. You say, on this evening, your master, yourself, and the child, were the only persons in the house; where was the child? A. Up stairs, in the first floor, just above where my master was—it was not in bed—the child ran down at the time I ran down, and was in the passage when this transaction took place—my master was in the back parlour when I let the prisoner and the female in—I showed them in as I showed other visitors, and then went up stairs—it was about ten minutes before I heard anything that attracted my attention—I do not think it was longer than that—it might have been somewhat longer, I cannot say—I could not see the features of the female—I had a light in my hand—that was the only light there was in the passage—it was a small tallow candle—when I came down stairs afterwards I brought down the candle—I took it to the door—I did not take it out of the door with me—I dropped it before I left the house, just as I was getting the door open—I did not put the candle to see the lock of the door to open it; I knew the lock—I do not remember which hand I had the candle in—I came down stairs in consequence of hearing a noise—it was the sound of persons scuffling—it was the sort of noise that might be produced by persons struggling together violently and upsetting a chair.
Q. How long did that struggling and scuffling go on? A. I ran down directly; I do not know how long it had been going on—I was up stairs at the time.
Q. When you opened the door, was not a crowd collected outside by the noise that had been going on inside? A. There were only two or three persons there.
Q. Was Mr. Moore pushing the prisoner in the passage? A. He had his hand up; whether he was pushing him or holding him back I cannot say—while he was doing that the prisoner was getting his pistol, I suppose—I was getting the door open then—I could not see what he was doing then.
COURT. Q. When you saw Mr. Moore holding up his hand, was he touching the prisoner at that time; did he touch him with his hand? A. I do not know at that time—I do not know what the prisoner was doing when Mr. Moore was holding up his hand; I was getting the door open.
MR. COLLIER. Q. You said that Mr. Moore's hand was up, but you could not tell whether he was pushing the prisoner or pulling him back; was there not a pushing and struggling going on in the passage? A. No, no struggling; he only had his hand up—I could not swear that Mr. Moore did not push the prisoner in the passage, because I do not know whether he was pushing him or whether he was holding him back—he had his hand upon him, and he was doing cither one or the other.
Q. At the time the pistol went off were they not shoving each other? A. I do not think they were—I could not swear that they were not—he had his hand up; it was all in a minute—the transaction was so sudden, and there was so much confusion, that I did not observe—I saw the pistol in his hand directly, as he lifted it up to Mr. Moore's head—I did not observe whether they were shoving each other or not at the time the pistol went off—that was in consequence of the confusion, and its being so sudden—I did not observe, because there was so much confusion, and the whole matter was so sudden.
COURT. Q. Did you distinctly see the pistol in the hand of the prisoner? A. Yes, I did; I saw him holding it up to the head of Mr. Moore—it was nearly up to his head.
MR. COLLIER. Q. You say he had the pistol in his hand, in which hand? A. I do not know—he had on a coat with loose sleeves—it was not a large cloak—it was a large great coat with loose sleeves—at the time he had the pistol in his hand it went off immediately, as soon as I saw it—at the time it went off, I do not think that the prisoner and Mr. Moore were pushing each other about; all I saw was Mr. Moore's hand up.
COURT. Q. When the pistol went off, how were they standing? A. Mr. Moore had his hand up.
MR. COLLIER. Q. Is that the occasion you spoke of just now, when you said he had his hand upon him, and was pushing him or pulling him back? A. That was the time.
COURT. Q. Do you mean that was the time when the pistol went off? A. Mr. Moore had his hand up; that was the time I spoke of when I said his hand was up—I saw Mr. Moore's hand touch the prisoner, upon his shoulder.
MR. COLLIER. Q. Was that the time that the pistol went off? A. Yes—I have not said that they were shoving each other when the pistol went off.
(MR. COLLIER proposed to put the witness's depositions into her hand, for the purpose of refreshing her memory, and then to ask her whether or not such was the fact. He did not intend to use the depositions as evidence, or in order to prove a contradiction, but merely to call her attention to a fact; this course had been permitted by many Judges, and he apprehended he was entitled to take it. MR. BODKIN contended that it would be an indirect mode of doing that for which a direct course had been provided. LORD CAMPBELL was of opinion that the course proposed could not be adopted. This was a question which had frequently arisen; and in a recent case, reserved for the Court of Criminal Appeal (Reg. v. Ford, 2nd Denisoris Crown Cases, p. 245), the Judges were unanimously of opinion that it could not be permitted, but that the proper course was to read the deposition to the witness, and then to cross-examine him upon it. Upon the authority of that solemn decision, he, with the concurrence of MR. JUSTICE CROWDER, must refuse the application.)
Q. When you went out at the door, about how many persons did you see; you said you saw Collard? A. Yes; about three, I said—I went out directly the pistol was fired—the persons I saw outside were not inside the railings; they were in the street, close to the gate—they were standing; Collard was, I know—I do not know whether the others were passing at the time—at the time I spoke to Collard, he did not tell me what he had come there for—neither Collard nor anybody in his presence said they had come there in consequence of hearing the noise and scuffling in the house—I did not ask any of them what they had come for—they did not say anything about having come to the door in consequence of hearing the scuffling
going on inside the house—they did not say, "What is the matter?" or anything to that effect—I have never said to anybody, that when I went out there was a crowd collected outside the door.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You have said that you could not distinguish the features of the female? A. No; she had a fall, or veil, over her face—I recognised the features of the prisoner, at once, as those of a person I had seen before—when I came down stairs, bringing the light in my hand, I went to the door as fast as I could—I brought the light down in my hand—the door of the back parlour was open—there was a light in that room—when I first went to the door, I did not succeed in opening it directly—the prisoner put his hand before my mouth—I was then close to the door—it was directly after that that the pistol was fired—it was all done in a minute—I did not open the door until after the pistol was fired—I was opening it at the time it was fired—I do not know whether my candle was still burning when the pistol was fired, but there was a light shone in from the street, through the fan light over the street door—I am not sure whether my candle went out or not; I know I dropped it—I dropped it inside, close against the door—when the prisoner put his hand over my mouth, his face was towards the door—when the pistol was fired, his face was looking towards Mr. Moore, towards the staircase—(the witness was here directed to describe the way in which the prisoner held his arm when the pistol was discharged)—it was held in that position (slightly raised), up to Mr. Moore's head—both arms, I think, were up—I saw the pistol—the pistol did not make a very loud report—I do not know whether it was loud enough to be heard outside—I did not see anything in either of Mr. Moore's hands—from the time they came out of the room until the pistol was fired, no blow was struck by anybody.
RICHARD CHECKLEY (police inspector; E). I knew the deceased Charles Collard, he was in the police force for some time—on the night of 8th Dec., about 10 o'clock, I went to the University Hospital, and saw him in bed there—he made a statement to me, after being told by the surgeon in my presence that he was dying—I took down what he said in writing, I produced it at the Police Court—it is attached to the depositions—this is the statement (produced), it is in my writing—(the COURT considered that the statement could not be read, until it was proved that the man had received a mortal wound)—on the following day the prisoner was brought into the room where Collard was at the hospital, and I asked Collard to make a statement to me with reference to his being shot; he then repeated what he had said before—I read to him in the prisoner's presence the statement which he had made the day before, and when I had read it he looked at the prisoner and said, "That is the man who shot me"—he did not point to him, he was too weak—the prisoner made no observation whatever—Collard also said to him, "Oh, you cruel man;" he made no observation upon that.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. You went into the house in Warren-street, No. 73? A. Yes; on the night of the murder—the door of the inner parlour is twenty-six feet from the street door—I measured it.
HENRY KIALLMARK . I am house surgeon at the University Hospital. On Friday evening, 8th Dec, about a quarter to 9 o'clock, Charles Collard was brought there—he had been shot through the belly; the ball was lodging in the back, on the left of the spine, about a quarter of an inch from the surface—I cut down upon it. and removed it—it was then in my judgment
a fatal wound, and he was told so, not by me, but Mr. Erichsen, the surgeon—to the best of my recollection, the expression he used was, "My good man, you are in a dying state"—I was present next day, when the prisoner was brought to the bedside of Collard; Collard was perfectly sensible at that time; Checkley read over in the prisoner's presence the statement that he had taken down the night before, and Collard said that it was correct—Collard saw the prisoner and said, "That is the man that shot me;" and he also said, "Oh, you cruel man," addressing the prisoner—the prisoner said nothing.
JOHN ERICHSEN . I am surgeon to the University College Hospital. I saw the deceased Charles Collard, about half an hour after his admission—I have heard the wound described, it was from a pistol bullet apparently, and was a fatal wound—I told him that I considered him in a dying state—nothing occurred to alter that opinion—he lived as nearly as possible twenty-four hours after he was brought in, and then died of the wound that he had received.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. About what time in the night was this deposition taken? A. About 10 o'clock on the Friday night—as far as I recollect, the whole of this statement was made at that time, with the exception of the words, "The man who I now see is him who shot me;" that was not made at the time.
MR. COLLIER to RICHARD CHECKLEY. Q. I wish to ask you whether this statement of Collard was made at 10 o'clock on Friday night? A. Yes; all except that which refers to the presence of the prisoner.
MR. CLERK. Q. Was the statement read over in the presence of the prisoner with that addition, or before that addition was made? A. With that addition—this mark was made by Collard on the evening of the 8th.
(The statement was here read as follows:—"Charles Collard, of No. 14, Warren-street says:—About a quarter to 9 o'clock, p. m., this day, I heard the report of a pistol and a cry of "Murder!" at No. 73, Warren-street—I went there, and found a man attempting to escape—I prevented him—he then re-entered the house, fastened the door in Warren-street, and got out at the back—I ran into the New-road, and caught hold of him as he was getting over the wall, when he pulled a pistol from his pocket and shot me through, and I fell—the man then ran away—another man was standing near me at the time, who tried to hold the prisoner, but he got away—the man I now see is him who shot me—I have made this statement believing that I am dying. Charles Collard, his mark. ")
WILLIAM BEETLESON . I am waterman at a hackney carriage stand—I know the house in Warren-street lately in the occupation of Mr. Moore, No. 73—I was in the New-road, near the back gate of that house, on the night this matter happened—it opens into the New-road—about twenty minutes to 9 o'clock, I heard a cry of "Police!" and "Murder!"—I was then just against the lamp post, at the corner of Tottenham Court-road, just against the soup kitchen—I was between the end of Tottenham Court-road and the back entrance to Mr. Moore's—a person came towards me crying "Police!" and "Murder!" and I saw the prisoner falling from the palings, his hat fell off and bounded on the pavement—I was going towards Tottenham Court-road, and about ten yards from the gate—on hearing the noise I turned round and looked towards Mr. Moore's premises, and saw the prisoner fall over the palings on to the pavement; he alighted on his feet—Collard came from round Tottenham Court-road, and he and I took hold of the prisoner at the same time—Collard said, "For God's sake take
care, or he will shoot some one," and directly he uttered those words the pistol went off, and Collard said, "Good God, I am shot! I am murdered!" and fell on the causeway—(I did not see any pistol till afterwards)—I endeavoured to hold the prisoner, hut he turned round and dealt me a blow under the ear with a pistol, and got away from me—I wrenched from his hand this piece of cane (produced), and that is the way he extricated himself from me—it has a piece of string attached to it—I could not see whether it was round his wrist—when he got from my grasp, he went down the New-road towards Fitzroy-street; that is away from Tottenham Court-road.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. Do I understand you that when he came over the palings, you were coming from one side, and Collard from the other? A. Yes—we were not both equally distant from him, but Collard came quicker than I did—we both took hold of him together, as nigh as I can judge—when I took hold of him, he was upon the ground; it was immediately upon his fall—I do not know how it was that his hat fell off—he made an effort to jump down—he did not slip as he jumped down—he was getting over the palings, but I could not see whether he was jumping—the palings are about six feet high—I cannot say whether he took a clean jump down, or whether he scrambled down—I caught him on his left, and Collard on his right—I caught hold of him by his left arm—we had scarcely hold of him when the words came from Collard's mouth, and the pistol went off—he struggled with me after Collard fell—immediately we took hold of him he began to struggle—the cane was in his left hand—he had an over coat on with bell sleeves—there were people opposite and round about, but there was nobody on the premises just at the moment—at the time of the struggle some people came up; I do not know any of them—it was light at the time—there was a lamp on the other side of the street, about three or four yards from the place—it was a dark, wet night.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You say that the fence was about six feet high? A. About that—I saw him come over—he dropped on his feet.
COURT. Q. When you say that he was on the ground, do you mean that he was standing up? A. Yes—he remained on his feet all the time after he came down.
WILLIAM HENRY MADDEN . On the night of 8th Dec I was passing along the New-road, at the back of No. 73, Warren-street, at from 25 to 20 minutes to 9 o'clock—I saw a group of persons standing just outside the premises—I heard the report of a pistol, and saw the flash, and saw a man fall; he cried out, "I am shot!"—I instantly saw a person leave the group; I followed him; it was the prisoner; he ran towards Trinity Church, New-road—that is in the opposite direction to Tottenham Court-road—I came up with and grappled with him; he instantly turned round, and assaulted me with a pistol; it was in his left hand, and he struck me on my left eye and cut my eyebrow open—he struck me three times with the pistol; the first blow I warded off with my arm, the second was on my eye, and the third took the top of my ear off, all but a little bit of skin, and then he ran the muzzle into my head and cut the scalp—I retained my hold of him until the crowd came in and overpowered him—I did not see him taken by the police, but I heard a person make a charge to the police, and saw him taken away by the police—when I first saw him in that group of persons, he had a pistol in his right hand, and as soon as I grappled with him he changed it.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. There was a group of persons
standing by the lamp post you say? A. Yes; that was immediately behind No. 73—they were not waiting for him to come out; he must have been one of the group—I cannot say whether the group were all pressing round him, he was on the opposite side of the way—it was then that I saw the flash, and heard the report—he had the pistol by the handle.
MR. BODKIN. Q. About how many persons do you judge formed the group? A. About half a dozen—the whole width of the New-road was between us.
MR. COLLIER. Q. When you heard the report of the pistol, and saw the flash, was the prisoner in the road, or in the street? A. On the pavement.
JOHN BELL . I am a cabinet maker, of Henry-street, Hampstead-road. On 8th Dec. I was going along the New-road, on the opposite side to Mr. Moore's house—the first I heard was a cry of "Help!" and I turned my head round and saw the flash and heard the report of a pistol—I then saw the prisoner break away from another man—I could not, on the opposite side of the way, see who fired the pistol—I knew the deceased, Collard; I dealt with him; I saw him fall as soon as the pistol went off—I cannot say whether there were two or three beside the prisoner; they appeared to be all of a lump—as soon as the pistol went off, the prisoner broke away from only one man that I saw—I ran after him, and saw him strike a man two or three times—as soon as he was secured, he dropped the pistol down behind him, like this (dropping his arm)—I picked it up, and gave it to the police; this (produced) is it—it is in the same state as when I picked it up—the hammer is down (there was a discharged percussion cap remaining upon the nipple)
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER, Q. You say that they appeared all of a lump, how many were there? A. I cannot say—I do not think there were half a dozen; I think there were about four with the prisoner—I am not at all sure that there were not other people about, there may have been.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Whatever there might have been, did you see any more? A. No; I was about ten yards from them.
JOHN MUNDY (police-sergeant, S 33). On 8th Dec, I was on duty in the New-road, about 20 minutes to 9 o'clock—I heard the report of a pistol, and saw a flash, exactly opposite the back of Mr. Moore's house, in the New-road—I was about 130 yards off; I ran there directly, and saw the prisoner running towards me—I ran across the road and met him—I saw him stopped by a man named Cope; I was about three paces off, and came up and took him into custody—there were one or two other persons round him at the time—a man named Moseley, said, "Take him in charge, he has shot a man further down"—I took him to the station, at George-street, St. Giles's—at the corner of Warren-street, he asked me if I would let him have a cab; I said "No, there is no cab allowed for you"—I searched him at the station, and found this dagger (produced), the sheath of which was sewn to the lining of his body coat—in the pocket of the same coat I found twenty-four ball cartridges which all fit the pistol produced; I have tried them—they also fit this other pistol (produced), which was given to me by Checkley—I also found a quantity of percussion caps in the same pocket, I have not tried them to the nipples of the pistols—I also found two door keys, 8 1/2 d. in money, and three cigars (produced).
DAVID LATTO (policeman, E 144). I went to Mr. Moore's house on hearing of this occurrence, about half past 8 o'clock—the person who lives next door, No. 72, got over the wall, and let me in by the front door—I saw the body of Mr. Moore lying behind the front door in the passage, on its back;
the head was towards the stairs—the feet were across the passage, about a yard from the front door—I sent directly for a medical man; Mr. Carter came, and he was found to be quite dead—I assisted in carrying the body to the back parlour, and placed it on a sofa there—there was no weapon of any kind in the passage—I found this knob of lead on the floor by the parlour door; it fits to this piece of cane, and appears to have been broken off it; part of the cane is left in the lead—there was a strong mahogany chair in the back room, not an arm chair; it was turned over and broken—this is part of it which I picked up, and which was broken off (one of the rails of the back)—I noticed blood on the wall, about the height of the head of a man who was sitting on a chair.
(MR. COLLIER wished to take the opinion of the Court, whether these facts should be gone into, as the prisoner was upon his trial for the murder of Collard, and not of Moore. The COURT considered that they were trying whether this homicide, was under such circumstances as would amount to murder or not, which could not be ascertained without this investigation.)
Q. Did you notice any blood on the floor? A. I did—I traced that blood from immediately behind the parlour door to the passage; it was at the foot of the sofa, where we placed the body—I saw that blood before the body was moved from the passage—on the table there were three bottles, one contained soda water, one lemonade, and one ginger beer; and there were three glass tumblers on the table; the corks were all drawn, and the bottles were empty—one glass had been used and was empty, the other two were half full, one with lemonade, and one with ginger beer—this corkscrew with a cork upon it (produced), was on the table; here is blood on the cork—I did not notice an iron safe in the room, nor did I find any key there.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. How many chairs were there in the room? A. I do not know—I did not count them—only one was overturned, and that was broken—it was a heavy chair—Mr. Mearing, the cabinet maker, let me in—he is not here—only he and I were on the premises when I went in—he had a candle—there was no light except that—but for that candle we should not have been able to see the body—there is a glass fanlight at the top of the door, but the light from that would not be enough to enable me to see the body—the head might have been a couple of yards, or perhaps a little more, from the door of the back parlour, where I found the soda water and corkscrew—I made the examination of the blood when Mr. Carter came—we made it together—the first thing we did when he came was to examine the body—the next thing was not to take the body and put it on the sofa; we examined the parlour before removing the body—when I speak of the blood marks, I speak entirely of the examination we made before removing the body—I do not think we examined the blood marks at all after we had removed the body, not particularly as regarded the blood marks—we did not make an examination as to the blood marks after we removed the body—I do not know whether it is a panelled room—I did not observe whether there was a skirting or moulding round the room, nor did I observe the passage—the room was not panelled where the blood was—I looked round the room, but did not pay particular attention whether it was panelled or not, but where the blood was I know that it was papered.
MR. BODKIN. Q. How long was it after you sent for Mr. Carter before he came? A. About three minutes—I did not put out the candle to try the effect of the light that comes in at the fanlight—when I said that
without the candle I could not have seen the body, that is my opinion—when I saw the body it was lying on its back—the fanlight lights the upper part rather than the floor.
RICHARD SLAUGHTER CARTER . I am a surgeon, residing in Fitzroy-street. On the night of 8th Dec. I was called to No. 73, Warren-street, between half past 8 and 9 o'clock—I found the body of a man lying in the passage on his back—he was quite dead—the head was lying in a pool of blood—the constable, Latto, was in the passage when I got there—the first thing I did was to examine the body to see if there were any wounds—I found three lacerated wounds on the crown of the head—they were three distinct wounds—there was a smaller wound above the right eyelid, through which blood and brains were flowing—there was another small wound on the back of his head—having made this examination, I went into the back parlour to look a candle, for we had but little light—I think there were one or two went with me—I am not quite certain that the policeman did—I think he did—I made an examination of the state of the room at that time, when we found a candle—we found a candle there, and lighted it by the one we had taken into the room—I then observed a broken chair, and splashes of blood on the sofa cover and on the chair cover—they were sprinkled with blood, covered with spots of blood, and there were large splashes of blood on the wall, about the height that the head of a man sitting in a chair would reach—I do not think I traced any blood across the room in any particular direction—I saw the constable pick up this leaden weight from the floor—I looked at it at the time—it had then the broken cane in the lead, exactly as it has now—such an instrument as this would have produced the lacerated wounds which I saw on the crown of the head—I did not notice any blood on the floor of the room—I did not look for it—I afterwards examined the head of Mr. Moore, and found a pistol bullet in the brain—it had entered by the wound above the eyebrow, and passed through the brain—death would have been instantaneous from that wound.
Cross-examined by MR. COLLIER. Q. Do I understand you, that you made your examination, as to the blood marks, entirely before the body was removed? A. Before the body was removed out of the passage—I have described all the places where I noticed blood.
WILLIAM SMITH (policeman, E 16). I produce a key; I found it on the floor of the back parlour of No. 73, Warren-street, about half past 1 o'clock on the night of 8th Dec.—there was an iron safe in the front parlour; the key I found fitted that safe—the safe was locked—there is a door which communicates between the front and back rooms, but it was closed and fastened.
CHARLOTTE BENNETT re-examined. I never saw this cane and this lead in Mr. Moore's possession, or in the house—Mr. Moore usually sat in the back parlour; there was no chair there that he usually sat in more than another, he sat in any—there was an iron safe in the front room—Mr. Moore kept his books and his cash box there—he was in the habit of keeping the key of that safe in his pocket—he paid the men in his employment their wages on Saturday.
Cross-examined. Q. He had a banking account, had he not, and kept a cheque book? A. Yes—I am quite certain that I had never seen this instrument before; I will swear it—I never saw the cane and lead until they were picked up on the night of 8th Dec.—the soda water manufactory was carried on at the back—I was not very often in the habit of going into the manufactory—I do not know what instrument is used in the manufactory for the purpose of beating down the corks of the bottles a wooden
mallet, I think they call it—some heavy instrument is used for the purpose of corking the bottles; I do not know how many kinds of instruments were used for that purpose in the manufactory.
WILLIAM PAGE . On the night of 8th Dec. I picked up a pistol, two inches from the gutter, on the kerb in Bath-place, New-road, about the width of the pavement from the back of Mr. Moore's premises; about two yards from the wall of the premises, which premises front to Warren-street—the body of a wounded man was lying there, in the gutter, at the time—I gave that pistol to inspector Checkley at the station house that same night.
RICHARD CHECKLEY re-examined. I produce the pistol which Page gave me; it had been discharged, the hammer was down, and there was a discharged percussion cap under it; it matches the other pistol, they are pairs—I saw the prisoner that night, about ten minutes after he was brought to the station house—he did not present the least appearance of personal injury.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you examine him for the purpose of ascertaining? A. I did not.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did he make any complaint? A. He had no outward appearance of any, and he made no complaint.
GUILTY . Aged 32.—Strongly recommended to the merciful consideration of the Court, and Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. BALLAKTINE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN ILLINGSWORTH (policeman, K 299). On the 14th Dec., about half past 5 o'clock in the afternoon, I was on duty in Marshgate-lane, Stratford—I observed three men coming along from the Eastern Counties Railway, the prisoner was one, and he was carrying a short piece of iron, and his companions had one larger piece between the two—the prisoner saw me, he threw the iron from his shoulder and ran away—I followed him, but he escaped—I took another of the men—the prisoner was taken on the 22nd of Dec, I told him he was one of the men who took some iron from the railway—he said he knew nothing about it—I have not the least doubt that he is the man—I had seen him before on several occasions.
SAMUEL HALE . I am a plate layer, in the employ of the Eastern Counties Railway Company. This piece of iron that the prisoner had on his shoulder, belongs to the railway—it is different to other, and is only used between Stratford and London—I have no doubt it is theirs.
COURT to JOHN ILLINGSWORTH. Q. Is this the piece that you saw the prisoner with on his shoulder, and saw him drop? A. Yes; it is.
Prisoner. I was not there; I was in doors at that present time; my landlady has been very bad or she would have been here to-day; why did not he take me before; he had seen me; I work at Mr. Beeson's wharf, and lodge at Mr. Thompson's.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Four Months.
JOSEPH BENTON (policeman, K 381). On Monday night, the 18th Dec, about half past 7 o'clock, I was on duty in Stratford; I saw the prisoner near a marine store shop—I went and hid myself in a dark place—I saw the prisoner go into the shop—it was Mr. Rayner's marine store shop—I followed the prisoner in and he was putting some brass letters into the scale, and a quantity of brass beading; I examined it, and asked the prisoner how he came by it—he said he found it in some dust—I said it had recently been broken off somewhere—he then said, "I shan't tell you how I did come by it"—I took him to the station—he gave me his address, and I went to his lodging and found these two iron plates—I found the brass corresponded with these iron plates, the name of the "Rob Roy"—I found at his lodging a hammer and chisel, and in his pocket, some more letters, and some brass beading.
WILLIAM WADE . I am a carpenter, in the employ of Mr. Thomas Pearce. I have seen this brass, and these iron plates;—I know them all, they are all Mr. Pearce's—they came from a locomotive engine, belonging to Mr. Pearce—I had not seen the engine at all for three months, till Christmas day—the plates were then taken off, and the letters too—when I had seen it before, it was all right—the name of the engine was the "Rob Roy."
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Four Months .
Before Mr. Recorder.
222. HENRY KIRKBY , stealing on 6th Dec., a metal tripod, and 6 lbs weight of brass, the property of Our Lady the Queen, his mistress. 2nd COUNT: stealing, within six months, 22 lbs. weight of lead, value 3s. 8d.; the property of the Queen.
MESSRS. BODKIN and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH DEMPSTER . I am shopman to Thomas Charles Andrews of Woolwich; he keeps a large china and glass warehouse; we deal a little in the marine store way. On Wednesday, 6th Dec., the prisoner brought some brass—I weighed it, and paid him 2s. 2d. for it—these are the pieces (produced); they did not weigh quite 61/2 lbs.—I gave him 4d. a pound—I asked where he had brought it from—he told me that an officer on the common that he was working for had given it to him—he had on a military overcoat—on the following Saturday he came again, arid brought some lead; there was 221bs. weight of it; there was only one piece, I did not notice two pieces—he offered it for sale—in consequence of something that had occurred between the Wednesday and Saturday, I sent for my master; he asked the
prisoner where he got it from—he told my master the same that he had told me on the previous Wednesday, that he was at work for a gentleman on the common, and that he gave it him for his labour—my master was not satisfied, and said he must go up and see the officer, and they both left the shop together with that intention—in about twenty minutes my master and the policeman came back together, and the lead and brass was delivered to the officer, in the same state that I received them—I saw no more of the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Is your master here? A. I believe not—when I asked the prisoner about the brass, he told me that he was at work for an officer on the common—he mentioned the name, I think it was Capt. Tidy, or something like that, and that he had given it to him for the labour that he had done—when my master spoke on the Saturday, about going up and seeing the officer, he said he should not like to get the man into trouble, that he was a man that had a family—he told my master that he was at work for an officer—he did not say, "a gentleman"—I should buy this for brass; I am not exactly a judge of what it is composed of—I have been in this establishment altogether, about ten years—I was there before Mr. Andrews came into it—I am pretty well used to the Government marks—I cannot swear to this lead, I fancy this is the same piece; I did not examine it, it was put into the scale and weighed—while I sent for my master the lead remained in the scale; I never lost sight of it until it was delivered to the policeman.
COURT. Q. What did you give for the lead? A. We did not purchase it—my master is at home very ill; he has been confined to his bed since Saturday—he was before the Magistrate.
MICHAEL BURNETT . I am foreman in the proof department at the arsenal, at Woolwich; it is where they prove all the cannon—the prisoner was employed in the same department for above twelve months I think—this lead is very much like that which is used at the arsenal; it is used to put on the vents of the guns when it is wet weather; I have a piece with me—the prisoner could go at all times to the place where it is kept, at any time there is a proof—to the best of my belief this is lead which was in the proof department at the arsenal shortly prior to 6th Dec.
COURT. Q. There are great numbers of those things there, are there not? A. Yes; there may be from thirty to forty—I am not able to say whether there were any missing—I did not know that there were any missing—I did not know how many there were there.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose a great many persons besides the prisoner had access to the place where these things were kept? A. Yes, all that were engaged upon the proofs—sixteen or seventeen, perhaps, were engaged upon a proof—sometimes proofs take place two or three times a week latterly—we are rather busy now—I have not seen any old pieces about—I have been in the service nearly three years—there have been old pieces; they are returned to the storekeeper as old lead—I do not know what is done with them.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Had any person in the arsenal any authority to take them away or consider them as perquisites? A. No; I do not know of any authority to dispose of them—all old stores are sent back to the storekeeper's—these are serviceable pieces; they would not be sent to the storekeeper as useless.
on Small Arms, in the proof departments—during my employment in the arsenal, from the middle of March last to Aug., there was a brass top of a telescope stand that was used in rifle practice under my charge in the armoury, and I believe it has been since missing—it was of the shape of this piece of brass (produced)—these pieces all formed one article—it was marked with the broad arrow in four places—I believe these pieces of brass to have formed that telescope stand—this piece has been marked in four places; two of the marks have been obliterated by a hammer, the other two are partially obliterated, but a sufficiency of the broad arrow remains for me to identify it—this round piece is a composition of brass, afterwards bronzed; it formed the swivel top which the telescope fitted into—the broad arrow is the Government mark—these screws were marked with a small arrow, but they have been hammered; there is no mark that I can swear to—to the best of my belief, this round piece is the property of the Crown, and these other pieces I believe to have formed a portion of the same article—I do not swear that they did, but they are similar—the telescope stand was in my care until I left the employment in the middle of August, and I then delivered it over safe to Bombardier M'Cullum, the non-commissioned officer that remained in charge—he was employed with me in the small armoury where the small arms were kept—I left this telescope in the small armoury, in a press or cupboard.
Cross-examined. Q. Was this used while you were there, from March till August? A. No; it was not put by with old materials, it was put for safety in a cupboard, where select rifles were kept—I have handled it almost daily; in taking out rifles it was generally on the shelf at the back, and I always had to take hold of it to prevent it from falling, and latterly I placed it in the bottom part of the cupboard for safety, and to give no trouble—there was only that one instrument of that description in the establishment—I have not seen any other of that make in the whole arsenal—it is by the marks that I swear it is Government property—I did not know the prisoner before March last—he has borne a high character in the regiment to my knowledge for that period—he has four stripes; they are marks of good conduct—if he had not behaved well, he would not have got them—I do not know that he would now have been entitled to another stripe from length of service—I am not aware of his length of service.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you put the telescope stand aside in the cupboard, was it in pieces as it is now? A. No; it was complete—it had never been in pieces while I knew it.
COURT. Q. You say you were there till 15th Aug.? A. Yes; I was then promoted to a higher grade, and left the proof department altogether—I knew nothing about the telescope after that.
ELIAS M'CULLUM . I am a bombardier in the Royal Artillery, at Woolwich—when Fitzsimon left, the small armoury came under my charge, until another non-commissioned officer, a sergeant, came—I remember the telescope stand being there—an article resembling this was there until a short time ago; it was kept in the bottom of the cupboard; it was in an entire state, not broken up at all—I last saw it about a fortnight or three weeks previous to the prisoner's committal; I cannot state to a day or two—in consequence of a communication made to me about 11th Dec., I searched for it in the place where I had last seen it, and found it was missing—I believe these pieces formed that telescope stand—I have no particular mark upon it, but there is a sufficiency of the broad arrow remaining to show it is Government property—these pieces are of the same
shape as the stand was—there was only one of that description in the place.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you the charge of this thing? A. I had for a short time—there are two non-commissioned officers there, but at all times the things are as much in my charge as in theirs—when Fitzaimon left, all the articles were given over into my charge—they remained in my special charge for a week or better, until Sergeant Wilkinson came and took possession of them—he is not here—I remained there still, but under the sergeant—it was my duty to take charge of the things—I missed this stand on 11th Dec.—I had seen it about three weeks or a fortnight before; it might be a month; I could not say precisely the time—I have known the prisoner since I have been employed there; since Feb. last—I believe he has always borne the highest character—the cupboard in which the stand was kept was not locked during the day; it was in the afternoon when we left—there were only four persons employed there; another man besides the sergeant, the prisoner, and myself.
COURT. Q. Then the prisoner had access to this during the day if he chose? A. He had; he had charge of the arms, and the cleaning of them—it was not part of his duty to clean this, but it was deposited in the cupboard where the arms were, which it was his duty to clean daily.
WILLIAM TWYMAN (police sergeant). The prisoner came to the station with Mr. Andrews, who gave him into custody—I told him he was charged with having possession of lead and brass, and not giving a satisfactory account of it—he said that an officer gave it him, and afterwards he said a man of the name of Tate gave it to him; that was at the same time, before he was put into the cell.
Cross-examined. Q. Was Dempster present when he made that statement? A. No.
COURT to ELIAS M'CULLUM. Q. Was the prisoner employed in any particular experiments or proofs at that time? A. All parties employed in the proof department are present when proofs are carried on—Colonel Chalmers is the officer in command—I am not aware of any person named Tate being employed there—there are many labourers there—there might be a man of that name, but none that I am aware of; no military man—I did not give the prisoner these things.
MR. ROBINSON called
ROBERT KETTLE . I am a sergeant major, in the artillery. I have known the prisoner about eighteen months—he has been in the service about twenty-three years—he has always borne a very high character—I have examined the books in the office, and find he has always borne an exemplary character—I have been sent here by the adjutant, for the purpose of giving him this character—he lived with me as my servant, when I was first appointed sergeant major, from Malta, eighteen months ago, and he had been living in that capacity with my predecessor—he was about six months with me, and I recommended him to this situation in the arsenal—he is married, and his wife is about to be confined with her sixth child.
COURT. Q. Can any person in the proof department have metal with the broad arrow upon it, to dispose of, under any circumstances? A. I am not sure about that—I know there are old stores—they are sold by contract, by the Government—I have never had anything to do with it—no old stores are given to the persons employed as perquisites.
GUILTY . Aged 45.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury, in consequence of his previous good character.— Confined Two Months .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Nine Months .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months .
MR. RYLAND offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK OUGHTON . I live at No. 5, Pollard's-gardens, Tower-street, Waterloo-road. On Saturday morning, 23rd Dec., I was at work in my premises, in Barrow's-place, at half past 6 o'clock—my premises are opposite Mr. Harris's warehouse—my attention was attracted by a noise of footsteps walking on the pathway—I went in at a side door of my shop, looked, and saw the small door of Mr. Harris's harness room open—it opens into the street—I saw a person there, there might have been two—I went to the station, and gave information.
MORRIS HARRIS . I live at No. 4, Haddon-street, Waterloo-road, and am a rag merchant. I have a warehouse in Barrow's-place—the gate of the harness room opens into the street—there is a bar placed across the door; it goes into a square hole on one side, and on the other into a hook—any one could open the gate by inserting a knife from the outside, and lifting up the bar—the harness room leads to the stable; over that is a hay loft, in which there is an opening, which was formerly a window, and through that you could get into the warehouse, where I had rags of all descriptions—on 23rd Dec. a policeman came, and I went to my warehouse—I found the gates closed, and the bar down in its place—I got the keys of the stable, and my son and the policeman went in—neither of the prisoners had any right to be there—the carman, Durrant, should have come about 8 or 9 o'clock that morning, to clean and feed his horse—Randall had no business there at all, as we never have any work done on the sabbath.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. How long has Randall been in your service? A. Eight or nine month—he was to do general work in the warehouse as a sorter and packer—I do not know that it was nearer to get in that way than by coming to me to fetch the keys—my house is within half a minute's walk—I had a good opinion of Randall—I lent him some money some time ago, when his wife lay in.
JAMES STERRY (policeman, L 89). On Saturday morning, 23rd Dec., I was on duty in Tower-street station—in consequence of information, I went to the warehouse in Barrow's-place—I left another officer to mind the door, and I went to Mr. Harris's house, which is not above thirty yards from the warehouse—Mr. Harris accompanied me back to the warehouse—I opened
the stable door with a key, and went into the hay loft—I saw Durrant on the top of some bags in the warehouse—I saw him come out of the window, and took him—I looked in the warehouse, and saw Randall stooping behind some bags—I called another officer, and he came and took Randall—I asked Durrant what he was doing there—he made no reply—I found this knife in Durrant's pocket—it appears that it had been put through the crack, and raised the bar—I was able to raise the bar with it—Mr. Harris's son accom panied me.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. What knife did you raise the bar with? A. This knife—I tried another knife, and I had great difficulty in doing it with that—putting the other knife in would not do it so easily as this one did.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLET. Q. What hour was this? A. At half past 6 o'clock on Saturday morning, 23rd Dec.—I had a light that I got from Mr. Harris—I stated that I saw Randall stooping and concealing himself behind the bags—I suppose the bags were three or four feet high—I did not enter the warehouse—I only saw these two men in the ware-house.
MR. ROBINSON to MORRIS HARRIS. Q. How long had Durrant been in your service? A. Three or four months—I had a written character with him from the railway—I missed nothing that morning—nothing had been removed—the keys were at my place—my son was in bed, and we were rung up by the police—I have a chaise there as well as a cart—I do no business on Saturday—I heard Durrant say that he had opened the bar once for my son in that way, but it appeared that Durrant had broken one key, and my son told him to go round to open it, and he said, "No, I can do it in this way," and he did it.
JACOB MORRIS HARRIS . I am the son of the prosecutor. On Saturday morning, 23rd Dec. I was awakened by the ring of the bell—I went with my father to the warehouse—I went in—the constable went up, and I heard him say, "Here they are"—I ran up, and saw Durrant in custody in the hay loft—I said, "There must be another"—I looked through the hole and saw Randall on the bags of rags—they were new white cuttings in bags stacked one on the other, three or four feet high—I told him to come down, and he said, "By God, we are caught!"—at the station, the inspector asked how they got in there, and Durrant said, "As I have got in before, by raising the bar."
NOT GUILTY .
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Nine Months .
HARRIS PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 45.— Confined One Year.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
IRENA MAGNISS . I am barmaid at the Coal-hole, in Blackfriars-road. On 21st Dec. the two prisoners came in—Harris called for some gin—he gave me in payment a shilling, and I gave him change—Reeves was standing by his side, and they drank the gin together—I had put the shilling by itself, not with any other money—in a short time Harris called for some more gin, and gave me another shilling—Reeves was standing by the side of him, and they both drank the gin—I put that shilling with the other, and gave Harris change—I gave him a sixpence, and 4d. in copper, for the
first shilling, and the same for the second shilling—Harris came a third time for some gin, and again he paid me with a shilling—I gave him in change a 4d. bit and a sixpence—both the prisoners drank the gin—I put the third shilling along with those I had received before—they were all three put by themselves inside the counter—I did not open the till to put the money in—I put them by themselves, and I put no other money in the same place—it was about half an hour from the time they first called for the gin till the last—after the third time that they had had the gin they came for some peppermint—Harris gave me another shilling, and Beeves was by him—they did not drink the peppermint, for I detected that the shilling was bad and I did not give change for it—I had only given change for the three—when I found that shilling was bad I looked at the other three, and found they were all bad—I told the prisoners that, and Harris said, "Have I given them you?"—I said, "Yes"—I broke two of the shillings and put the pieces on the counter—Harris took them up and went out, and came back again—I sent for a policeman, and during that time Harris went away again, and our waiter brought him back—I gave Reeves in charge, and gave the officer the two shillings that I had not broken.
JOSEPH HAYNES . I am waiter at the Surrey Coal-hole. On 21st Dec. the last witness called me and sent me for a policeman—Harris left the house, and I went after him and brought him back—the policeman took Reeves—the last witness put two bad shillings in my hand—I put them oh the counter, and the policeman took them up.
Reeves's Defence. About half-past 1 o'clock that morning, I was in the Coal-hole; this prisoner came in and we got in conversation; he asked me to drink, but as to knowing about the coin being bad, I know nothing about it; when the barmaid said the money was bad, Harris went out and was out a quarter of an hour.
REEVES— GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined One Year .
THOMAS PURSSELL . I am a labourer—on Sunday, 24th Dec, about 1 o'clock in the morning, I was going along the London-road, carrying a bundle under my arm, containing two sheets, four pillow cases, and a petticoat; it was wrapped in a handkerchief—as I was walking along, a man came up and knocked me down—I do not know what he hit me with—he hit me on the side of my mouth, and the back of my head—I had a hat on; it was knocked off, but I got it again—the consequence of the blow was that I was quite unsensed—I cannot tell for how long; I think for an hour—when I came to myself I felt very uncomfortable, and all blood and mud—I bled from my head and face, and I have been very ill ever since—I was hurt all over—I do not know that I was struck anywhere else—I never saw my bundle again till the policeman brought it to me—I
do not know who it was that did this to me—the policeman took me to the station—I there saw my bundle; the prisoner was there.
Prisoner. You were so intoxicated you could not stand—the inspector asked you if that was your bundle, and you said "No"—he asked where you lived, and you said you did not know—he asked your name, and you did not know. Witness. I might very likely; I was quite insensible.
COURT. Q. Were you sober before you were knocked down? A. Yes; I had had nothing to drink; I had just come from my labour—I came up to town to come to my son's to spend my Christmas.
SAMUEL JOSEPH ROUSE I am a waiter, and live at Walworth—I was going along the London-road about 1 o'clock on 24th Dec.—I was going towards the Elephant and Castle—I saw the prisoner and two other persons running, and they met the prosecutor—they either pushed or knocked him down—I ran across and picked him up, and while I was doing so, the prisoner stooped and picked up the bundle, and ran away with it—the prosecutor was quite insensible, lying on his back, and I saw he was bleeding from the mouth and the back of his head—I went to the station, and found the prisoner there—I am sure he is the person who picked up the bundle—I had seen him before, very frequently, and I was quite certain as to his person—the prosecutor was brought to the station, but he was in such an insensible state, that when they asked him the questions all he could say was, "I don't know."
Prisoner. The inspector asked you if you saw me nigh the prosecutor, and you said "No." Witness. No, I did not—I said you were the person that picked up the bundle—I saw you pick it up, and run away—the constable came up in less than half a minute—you ran before he came—you got the start of him some fifty yards.
CHARLES CARPENTER (policeman, L 134). On Sunday morning, 24th Dec., I was on duty in the London-road—I saw a mob of fifteen or sixteen people assembled at the top of the London-road—I hastened to the spot and looked over the people; I saw the prosecutor on his back apparently insensible—Mr. Rouse was assisting him up—a woman touched me on the shoulder and said, "There goes a man with a bundle; it belongs to this man"—I turned round and saw the prisoner—I knew him before, and I chased him through three or four streets—he ran into the hands of a plain clothes constable, who took hint—I had seen him with the bundle, but he had dropped it—he had not got it when he was taken—I saw the prosecutor afterwards; he appeared to be in an insensible state—I found the bundle had been taken back, and was by the side of the prosecutor—with the assistance of another officer, I got him to the station—he was insensible, and not able to answer questions at first; after about twenty minutes he recovered himself—he did not appear at all drunk.
JOSEPH SMITH (policeman, L 152). I was on duty in St. George's-road, and heard a rattle—I saw the prisoner come running in a direction from where the prosecutor was knocked down—I took the prisoner—he said, "It was not me; I have done nothing"—I asked him why he was running, and he made me no answer—when he was at the station he said, "I did pick up the bundle, and threw it away, as a matter of course, when the officer pursued me, but I did not strike the prosecutor."
Prisoner's Defence. I was coming from Blackfriars-road; I had been drinking; as I came along, two young fellows were running rather intoxicated; they pushed against me, and got fighting; there was a mob of people; the constable came up, and I ran away; I went to a coffee shop, and stopped half an hour; I came out, kicked against the bundle, and took
it up; it was all mud; I put it down, and said it was not mine; I was going on, and the officer stopped me, and took me to the station; the prosecutor was there; the inspector asked him if he had a bundle, and he said "No;" he asked him where he lived, and he said "No;" the constable says that he went up, and a woman told him that she saw me take the bundle.
GUILTY of stealing from the person . Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months .
Before Mr. Recorder, and a Jury half consisting of foreigners.
MR. CAARTEN conducted the Prosecution.
(The prisoners, being foreigners, had the evidence interpreted to them.)
WILLIAM RAYSON . I keep a coffee house, and reside at No. 252, Blackfriars-road. I know the prisoner, Longuille—he lodged at my house for a fortnight—that was about a month before 15th Dec.—since that time he has visited at my house—on Friday night, 15th Dec., I fastened up my house at 10 o'clock—I remember fastening, the back door quite well—that door fastens by a lock—it opens into a passage which leads into Holland-street—there is a door to that passage opening into Holland-street—that door was not fastened by any lock—it was shut—about half past 3 o'clock on Saturday morning, 16th Dec., I was awoke by the police—I went down stairs, and found that the back door which I had locked the night previously had been forced open—I observed some marks upon it close by the lock—a crowbar was afterwards shown to me—I saw that crowbar fitted to those marks—it fitted them exactly—there is a door opening from my parlour into that passage—the back door and the parlour door both open into the passage which leads to Holland-street—you would go into the parlour immediately from that passage—there were marks upon the door leading to the parlour—the same kind of marks as were on the other door, and they fitted the crowbar—that door had been bolted and locked, and it was still shut—the lock had been tried, but had not been forced open—I did not miss any property.
Buclerk. Q. Had you ever seen me before at your coffee house, or any where else? A. No.
STEPHEN NORRIS (policeman, M 99). On the morning of 16th Dec. I was on duty in Holland-street, about a quarter past 3 o'clock—I saw the prisoner Buclerk—he put his head out of the passage door leading to Holland-street—I should think I was about ten yards from him—he saw me, and ran away towards Blackfriars-bridge—he came out of the passage when he ran away—I went up to the door—it was partly open, and in the passage I saw the prisoner, Longuille—I asked him what he did there—he said, "Me do nothing"—I asked him what he had got about him—he said, "Me got nothing"—he took these keys out of his pocket, and gave them to me—I seized him and took him outside—he tried to get away—I took him to the station—while going along he dropped this crowbar, I think from the leg of his trowsers—it fell from him—I took it up—I searched him at the station, and in his right trowsers pocket I found this small saw.
Longuille. I gave it him myself just as I was going in the station; I unbuttoned myself, and said, "Gentlemen, here is another thing." Witness. No, I found it when I searched him—he did not tell me he had got it; if he did, I did not understand him.
Buclerk. It rained that night; I passed by him; I did not run, I walked.
Witness. No, he ran—I was farther from the door than he was—he ran away from me—I was not near enough to take him—I saw his face,—when I got to the door the prisoner, Longuille, was just coming out of the passage—I had seen the two prisoners before that, standing in a door way.
COURT to WILLIAM RAYSON. Q. When you examined your house did you find any disorder? A. No, nothing disturbed—I found no marks in the house, only on the doors—I did not see any foot marks.
JOSEPH HANSON (police sergeant, M 9). From information which I received, I went on the morning of 16th Dec. to No. 4, Horse-shoe-court, St. Clement's-lane, Strand, about 8 o'clock—I found the prisoner Buclerk in bed, in the upstairs back room—I said, "Get up"—he did not understand me—I spoke in French, and he got up—I told him in French, to dress himself, and he did so—I said, in French, "I arrest you for being with another in breaking into a house, No. 252, Blackfriars-road"—he said, "Pas moi;" "Not me"—he said again, "You are deceived; I know nothing about it"—I searched the room, and on a table I found this dark lantern, a box of lucifers, and these goloshes, which were quite wet—it had been wet the night before—I likewise found this pocket book, which contained a 10l. Bank of England note and some papers—I took him to the station—as we were going over Blackfriars-bridge, I said in French, "Do you know this bridge?"—he said, "I passed it at 4 o'clock this morning"—in going past Mr. Rayson's house, he pointed to it, and said, "I was at the back of that house last night with my friend, with whom I quitted at 4 o'clock this morning"—he said, "That is my friend's lodging"—I went afterwards to Mr. Rayson's house; I took this crowbar with me; I compared it with the marks on the door and doorpost; it fitted exactly—I saw the marks on both the doors, and it fitted the marks on each—the marks were near the lock—the door leading directly into the house, and the parlour door also—the house is in the parish of Christ Church, Surrey.
Buclerk. Q. Did you find the door open, on which you say you saw some marks? A. No; shut—that was about 9 o'clock in the morning—the lock was not torn off.
COURT to STEPHEN NORMS. Q. Did you call up Mr. Rayson? A. Yes; after I took Longuille to the station I came back, and called Mr. Rayson up—the back door was then open—that was about 20 minutes before 4 o'clock—the lock had been drawn, but not broken.
MARY ANN SPENCER . I am the wife of James Spencer, of No. 4, Horse-shoe-court, Clement's-lane, Strand. On Friday, 15th Dec, the two prisoners came to engage our top room, as a lodging for both of them—they were to pay 4s. a week—they took the room, but went away as soon as they had taken it—that was between 1 and 2 o'clock in the day—they both returned in about two hours, and Longuille asked me to lend him the key of the street door, and I did so—it was a latch key—they went away again, and returned a second time before 8 o'clock—I cannot exactly say when they went out for the last time—I did not see them go out, but I heard them—it must have been after 10 o'clock, or about 10 o'clock—I did not go in their room that evening—about half past 6 o'clock the next morning, Buclerk come back—I was up and I saw him and gave him a light, and he went up stairs—about 8 o'clock a policeman came, and he was taken away.
COURT. Q. Did they speak English? A. Yes; Longuille spoke in broken English—the other prisoner was present, but he did not speak—
when he came in, in the morning, he did not speak to me—I asked whether the lodging was for both of them, and Longuille said, "Oui"—Buclerk paid me a week in advance.
Buclerk. The other man had a lodging; I wanted this for myself.
(The prisoners, in their defence, each read a statement to the Jury in the French language, which was not interpreted.)
LONGUILLE— GUILTY . Aged 25.
BUCLERK— GUILTY . Aged 29.
Judgment Respited .
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, JANUARY 29TH, 1855.