CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
SIDNEY, MAYOR FIFTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, February 27th, 1854.
PRESENT—The Rt. Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald HUMPHREY; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. MOON; and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN Knt., Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
336. CHARLES MANNING was indicted for embezzling and stealing the sums of 58l. 9s. 7d., 5l. 1s., and 6l. 9s. 7d.; also, other sums which he had received on account of James Wells Taylor and another, his masters: to both of which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 40.
(MR. ROBINSON, for the prisoner, stated that the prisoner had a wife and four children dependent upon him, that he had always borne a respectable character, and had been led into the commission of this offence by a connection with betting transactions. MR. TAYLOR (of the firm of Taylor and Collison, solicitors), the prisoner's master, stated that he had been three years in their employment, and had conducted himself well until this discovery; the total amount of their loss was 160l.)— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
ALICE INGLIS . My husband is a publican, at No. 14, Old Bailey. The prisoner was our barman—on 2nd Feb., about 8 o'clock in the evening, I saw the prisoner go to the till—in consequence of something that occurred, I watched him—I saw him take something out of the till, in his hand—I went up to him, and asked him what he had got; he said, "Nothing"—I then asked him to show me his hand—he said he had got nothing—I said I insisted on seeing what he had got in his hand—he went backwards a little, and then dropped a shilling from his hand—I called my husband, and told him—I went with the prisoner and my husband into the bar parlour—my husband asked him how much he had taken.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Before your husband asked him any question, did he not tell him that if he would give him the information, he would not prosecute him? A. Never; nothing of the sort—I said he might as well, tell the truth—my husband was there—I said no more—my husband went out to look for a policeman.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. When your husband asked the prisoner what he had taken, what answer did he make? A. He said at first, "Eight shillings;" he then said he had got 7l. in his pocket, which he pulled out—he said it belonged to himself—I said, "Where did you get it from?"—he would not tell me.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Was your husband in the room at the time you told the prisoner he might as well tell the truth? A. No—he at first asked him how much he had taken, and he said, "Eight shillings"—my husband then went out to look for the policeman, and I said to the prisoner, "You may as well tell the truth "—he said, "I have got 7l. in my pocket, which belongs to myself—I said, "Where did you get it?" and he would not tell me—it was not before he said he had taken 8s. that I said, "You may as well tell the truth"—when we first went into the bar parlour, the prisoner began by saying, "I have taken 8s.," and my husband said, "That is not all you have taken "—when my husband came into the bar parlour, I told him what I had seen—he said, "I know it is not the first time he has done so; how much have you taken, George?"—he said, "Eight shillings "—"Yes," I said, "Eight shillings, and a good deal more;" and I said to Mr. Inglis, "What are you going to do? you had better look for a policeman"—he went outside, and then I said to the prisoner, "You may as well tell the truth"—he afterwards told my husband where he got the 7l.
THOMAS INGLIS . I keep the Star public house, Old Bailey. In consequence of being called by my wife on the evening of 2nd Feb., I went into the bar parlour—the prisoner and my wife were there—I saw same money lying on the table—I pointed to it, and asked the prisoner how he became possessed of it—he admitted that he had taken it, and said if I would forgive him, it should not occur again—I said, "I cannot forgive you under such circumstances"—there was 7l. 5s. 10 1/2 d. there—he said he had only 10s. when he came to me—I paid him 3s. 6d. a week, and his board and lodging.
Cross-examined. Q. Was it his duty to serve in the public house? A. Yes, to clean the pots and assist at the bar—mine is an open bar, where persons come and drink—I have no sitting rooms—I did not, before the prisoner made any statement, tell him it would be better or worse for him to do so—I am quite sure of that; nor did my wife, in my hearing, that I am aware of—I have no recollection of it—when I engaged the prisoner, he told me he had been but a few months from the country, and that he had no relations or friends in London—I have no reason to suppose that he has.
COURT. Q. You say you went in, and saw the money on the table? A. Yes; there was 7l. 5s. 10 1/2 d.—that was the first thing that passed respecting the money—I was not aware of what had passed with my wife about what he had in his hand.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did you ask him how much he had taken? A. I asked him if that was all that he had taken—that was the 7l. 5s. 10 1/2 d.; it was on the mantel shelf—he said nothing about the 8s.
COURT to ALICE INGLIS. Q. You told me that your husband asked the
prisoner "How much have you taken?" and that he said, "Eight shillings" is that so? A. Yes.
THOMAS INGLIS re-examined. That was at first, when I came down; he did say that; he said he had taken 8s.—that was in the bar parlour when I came down stairs—he had not then taken the money out of his pocket—when I first came down, I found the prisoner in the bar parlour with my wife—she asked him if that was all he had taken—he said he had taken 8s., then he pulled out the 7s. 5s. 10 1/2 d., and admitted that he had taken that.
HENRY JOHN TEAGUE (City police inspector). I took the prisoner into custody on 2nd Feb., about 9 o'clock in the evening—I told him he was charged with stealing the money I found on the mantel shelf in the room where we stood, namely, 7l. 5s. 10 1/2 d.—he said, "I did not steal the whole of it"—I took him to the station; I there searched him, and found on him purse, a knife, and a memorandum book—there was nothing in the purse.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read, as follows: "I have nothing to say; but I have a mother in the country, very badly off; I took the money to send over to her."
COURT to THOMAS INGLIS. Q. Did the prisoner tell you where he took the 7l. 10s. from? A. He admitted having taken it; he said he had taken all that was there—I said, "And how much more?"—he said he did not know—I asked him where he converted it into gold?—he said he did it when he went to Stewart and Murray's printing-office; he got it changed there—the prisoner was about four months in my employment.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
JOHN THOMPSON . I live at No. 17, Glasshouse-street, Whitechapel. I know the prisoner—he came to lodge in our house for three or four days—he slept in the same room with me, in the next bed to me—it is a lodging house—he got up before me in the morning—I missed my shoes the moment I got up—I saw him looking under my bed, but I had no idea he would have taken my shoes, for he was pitying me the day before, being an old man—he went down stairs, and went out at the back door—I never saw any more of him for five days afterwards, till he was taken up on another charge—he never came nigh our house after that—I afterwards saw my shoes at Arbour-square police-court.
Prisoner. Q. What mark have you got on the shoes? A. I never put any mark on them, further than from their being the shape of my feet, and from the holes that the maker bored in each of them—I have had them three months—there are iron tips on the heels, and nails in the soles—these (produced) are them—they were made by a man of the name of John Miller, of No. 26, Rosemary-lane, or Chapel-street—he keeps a large shop—I have worn them about three months, not every day, and I am sure they are mine—I bought them as rights and lefts—I never said my shoes were straights.
JOSEPH SAUNDERS (policeman). I took the prisoner into custody on Sunday morning, 29th Jan., on another charge—the prosecutor, hearing that he was in custody, came to the station, and saw the prisoner there, with these shoes on—he claimed them directly he saw them—I said to the prisoner, "You hear what he says; let me have those boots off"—he took them off instantly, and gave them to me—I showed them to the prosecutor, and he claimed them directly—he said, "Let me look at the bottom of them"—I
did so, and he said, "I know they are mine by these big nails that are here"—the prisoner said not a word—he said nothing at that time—just after going before the Magistrate, the prosecutor was calling him a rogue; and he said, "Well, stop it; I did take them"—I do not think that he at any time said he did not take them—I can read.
Q. I find in your deposition, "The prisoner said, 'I did not take them, and I don't know who did;" is that you signature? A. Yes; I remember how he did say so; it is a month ago—it was directly before going in before the Magistrate that he said, "I did not take them."
Q. You told me just now that when he was going in before the Magistrate he said that he did take them; is that so? A. As far as I recollect, it is; I think he said that; but it is a month ago, and I may have forgotten myself—I am quite certain he said he did not take them; but as to his saying he did take them, at this moment I cannot be quite positive—I knew there was something took place, but at the moment I could not recollect what it was.
Prisoner's Defence. I could bring the man forward to-morrow morning that I had the shoes from; he would have been here to-day, but he did not know my trial was coming on; I am innocent.
JOHN THOMPSON re-examined. When my shoes were taken, no other shoes were left in their place—I cannot say whether the prisoner had shoes when he went to bed, I did not see him go to bed; he left no shoes behind him; he was passing bad money in the house—there were three of us sleeping in the room, one of them was the landlady's son; he got up early and went to his work.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Three Months.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner for uttering counterfeit coin; for which see New Court, Tuesday.)
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEIL GIBSON . I am master of the ship Alcides, lying in the London Docks. On Tuesday evening, 21st Feb., I was at Mr. Law's-public house, at Wapping, about 9 o'clock—I saw the prisoner there; I came out with her; I went along the street with her a little bit, she wished for a glass of ale, and I went into a public house and gave her one; I paid for it with half a sovereign—I took that half sovereign out of a purse, there were twenty-three sovereigns there altogether—after taking out the half sovereign. I put back the purse in the same pocket; I am quite sure of that—that was the left trowsers pocket, and I buttoned it up—I afterwards went with the prisoner to a house that she called her mother's—she said nobody stopped there but her mother and a little niece; we went up stairs to a small room—that was three or four minutes after I had changed the half sovereign—there was a little girl in the house—she was not in the room when we first went in, the prisoner called her up—when we went into the room the prisoner told me to pull off my trowsers and stockings; 1 did so, but I insisted on her stripping a" well—I put my trowsers on two little shelves by the window—the prisoner did not strip—she went down stairs with the girl and had some communication, and came up again, and called the girl up—she only took her shawl off—it was before she went down that I took off my trowsers—she was gone about a minute and a half—nobody came into the room while she was away—when she came up again she called up the girl to put the window blind to rights—that girl is not here; she was
before the Magistrate, but she has absconded—her name is Mary Ann Harvey—the little girl went to the window, and the prisoner went along with her to the window, and took my trowsers into her hand, dropped them on the floor; they both turned, and she ran out instantly—I instantly went to my trowsers, put my hand in the pocket, and my purse and money were gone; I put my trowsers on, went down, stairs in half a second, and called out for a policeman—I was looking out for the prisoner that night and the night following with a policeman; she was not taken till the Friday night—the little girl who came into the room was a witness before the Magistrate.
Cross-examined by MR. GEARY. Q. What o'clock was it when you went into the first public house where you met the prisoner? A. About half past 8 o'clock—I only took a glass of hot grog, and 1 gave the prisoner part of it—I had a single glass of ale at the second public house, no spirits—I had put the purse in my pocket when I came out of the bank, and counted the sovereigns—I paid my crew, and then counted what cash I had left—I went with the prisoner to the house she asked me to go to; I only saw the little girl there; I think that she asked upstairs for the price of the room, and I said I would pay her by-and-bye, or afterwards—I think the price was 2s.—I forget now—the prisoner then called the little girl up again to bring a cloth and wipe up some water which was spilled at the foot of the bed—she did so, and went down stairs instantly; and the prisoner directly told me to take off my clothes, which I did, of course, directly; but she was busy about something else, and did not wish to take off her clothes, I suppose; she called the girl up again, and told her to put the window blind to rights; she did so, and the prisoner went with her, and took hold of my trowsers which were lying there; they then both went out of the room together; I got hold of my trowsers and missed my money—I saw nobody when I went down stairs, the little girl was not there, I looked for her with a policeman—I did not charge her with robbing me, I had no occasion, as I had seen the prisoner with my trowsers—I did not see the prisoner take my purse, but she had my trowsers in her hand, and dropped them directly—I went before the Magistrate on the Friday; no, on the Saturday—I do not exactly know the date; it was the day after the prisoner was found—I had been searching for her every night since Tuesday, but did not mark the day I found her—the little girl went before the Magistrate, I made no charge against her—she was bound over to appear here—I have not taken any steps to bring her here to-day; but a policeman was sent down to the house to see and find her, but could not—when this took place I was as sober as I am now.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Did the little girl touch your trowsers at all? A. No; I did not go back to the house that night—I went next night with a policeman, and saw the little girl there.
COURT. Q. Had you given the prisoner any money before she left the room? A. No; I am sure of that—nothing had taken place between us.
MARGARET ANN CLARK . I live at No. 74, Gravel-lane. Mary Ann Harvey is not my daughter, but I married her father, and have brought her up—I have not got her out of the way, but somebody else has put her out of the way for the purpose—she was a witness before the Magistrate—I saw her last on Saturday night, about 9 o'clock; I told her to remain where she was, and I would get her a situation—I do not, of my own knowledge,
know the reason that she is not here—I was out at the time—I have been after her, and have inquired everywhere, and of every little girl who I thought knew of her—I have not seen her with the prisoner lately—she did not stay with me, because I beat her for allowing two females in to one gentleman—the prisoner is not a relation of mine—she was never at my house; I never saw her before—Mr. and Mrs. Brown, the man and woman at the house where the little girl was staying, said that they would come up here; they are entire strangers to me—the house is No. 64, New Gravel-lane—I have received no communication from the little girl at all.
WILLIAM CHARLES POTTER (policeman, K 212). Last Thursday evening the prisoner was pointed out to me in High-street, Shadwell, with another girl and a man—I told her she was charged with robbing a gentleman on Tuesday night, in New Gravel-lane, of 23l. (the prosecutor was present)—she said she never knew the gentleman, and knew nothing about his money—at the station, she said all she had was 5s., that she had 3s. and gave 2s. to the girl—I found in her possession 5s. 4d. and some duplicates—I have been looking out for the little girl—I went last evening to Mr. Brown's, and he said he had not seen her since Saturday night—he is not here, nor is Mrs. Brown—I went again this morning, but could not find the little girl.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you the policeman who first saw the prosecutor on the Tuesday night when he was robbed? A. No; I do not know who that was—I was with the prosecutor two nights searching for the prisoner, and he pointed her out as soon as he saw her—I went with him to the house in New Gravel-lane, No. 74; he showed it to me—there is a girl who was with her at the time he pointed her out (pointing to a female in Court).
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
RICHARD HENRY EDGILL . I am clerk to F. W. Rolland and Co., of Union-court, Old Broad-street. On 11th Feb., about a quarter past 10 o'clock, I was passing over London-bridge, and felt a tug at my right pocket—I stopped, and saw the prisoner at my right side with my handkerchief in his right hand—I seized him, and held him till a policeman came—he asked me to let him go, and said he would not do it again, and so forth—I cannot accurately say what it was, or whether he said, "again."
JOHN CHESTER (policeman). I was on duty, on London-bridge, about a quarter past 10 o'clock—there was an obstruction, and I saw Mr. Edgill holding the prisoner—I went up, and he said the prisoner had picked his pocket—I asked him if he intended to give him into custody; he said, "Yes" the prisoner said, "I did not take the handkerchief; some other person took it, and gave it to me."
Prisoner's Defence. A lad passed by me, and gave the handkerchief into my hand; I stopped and looked, and the gentleman asked me for it; I gave it to him.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Three Months on each indictment, the second period to commence at the expiration of the first.
GEORGE DAVIS . I keep the Coach and Horses public-house, in Conduit-street. On 5th Jan., the prisoner came to my house after 4 o'clock, after banking hours—he asked for change for a check for 15l. for his employer, Mr. Stoughton, who I knew, and had changed a check for previously—I cashed it for him; this is it (produced)—on 14th Jan., he came again—I am not quite certain whether that was after banking hours—he brought a check for 15l., I gave him 3l. on account, on the assurance that it was for his master, who resided at the Burlington Hotel, Cockspur-street, and he was to call again for the remainder; he called again the same afternoon, and I gave him the remainder—I paid the two checks into the Union Bank, Argyle-place.
WILLIAM STOUGHTON . I am residing at the Burlington Hotel; the prisoner was in my service, as groom—on 1st Jan. I gave him a check for 10l., for which he brought me back the money—neither of these checks produced are in my writing.
Prisoner. Q. Did I not change those checks for you? A. No.
Prisoner. I say you did give them to me; they are not my writing.
COURT. Q. Is the writing on the checks at all like your writing? A. Not at all; I know the prisoner's writing; they are like his.
WILLIAM GODFREY (police-sergeant). I apprehended the prisoner, and told him it was for passing two forged checks for 15l. each, to Mr. Davis—he said that they were not forged; that his master signed them, and he took them to Mr. Davis, and got the money; and that there was a 10l. check drawn at the same time, and signed by his master; that he had given the money for the 15l. checks to his master; and that his master had the money in his pocket.
Prisoner. "Or had done something with it." Witness. You did not say that.
WILLIAM STOUGHTON re-examined. The prisoner did not bring me 15l. on 14th or 15th Jan.—I bank at the Union Bank of London—I kept my check book in my portmanteau, which was not locked—there are two checks missing from my check book; I have got the counterfoils—the prisoner knew my handwriting well; he has seen it frequently.
Prisoner's Defence. I have been in Mr. Stoughton's service nearly five years—I was bred and born in the family, and always did my duty. On 21st Dec., my master was taken ill, and I was obliged to stop up with him night and day; he was quite delirious; he gave me checks on several occasions; five checks; three I changed at Mr. Davis's, one I gave to the head waiter at the hotel, and another for 25l. I changed at the Bank; I gave all the money to Mr. Stoughton.
WILLIAM STOUGHTON re-examined. I have been in bad health since just before Christmas—I do not think it possible that I could have drawn a check during my illness without being aware of it—I feel confident that I never signed this check; it is not at all like my writing—this 10l. check (produced) is my writing; it was written when I was ill—I am aware that I was very delirious—I had no other servant attending on me except the servants of the hotel—I have not got my check book here, but
I have got some of my checks—I am quite positive that those two 15l. checks are not my writing—I was living alone at the hotel—I could not spend anything during my illness—I have not yet settled my score at the hotel—I am going away next week.
GEORGE DAVIS re-examined. The amount of these two checks was placed to my credit—Mr. Stoughton and myself bank at the same bank—I have had the money for them; they are put to my credit in my bankers' book—Mr. Stoughton being ill, did not have his pass book from the bankers, and therefore the checks remained at the bankers'.
NOT GUILTY .
(The facts of this case being the same as in the last, no evidence was offered.)
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Monday, February 27th, 1854.
PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., Ald.; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 49.— Confined One Month.
PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
BENJAMIN PAWLEY (policeman, T 158). I am stationed at Brentford. I saw the prisoner there on Monday last, near the waterworks, about half a mile from Mr. Woodley's—he had a sack on his shoulders, which I took very particular notice of—in the course of the same evening I, with Mr. Woodley, saw the prisoner again—Mr. Woodley asked him what the sack contained that he took to the brewery—he said sawdust—he asked him where he got it from—he said, "From Scott's"—I took him in custody—I went with Mr. Woodley to the brewery, and Mr. Allen showed us this sack, which I said I could swear to—it was the one the prisoner had in the morning—it contained two bushels and a half of malt.
Prisoner. Q. You cannot swear to this sack? A. Yes, I can; you had this part of it over your right shoulder, and this tuft of hay was sticking up—the mouth was to the left, and the bottom to the right—I took very particular notice of it.
COURT Q. Did you see the prisoner go into Mr. Allen's brewery? A. Yes, I did.
DAVID ALLEN . I am a brewer, at Old Brentford. I know the prisoner by sight; he came to my house last Monday—I did not see him bring anything with him, but he asked me if I would let him grind some malt; I said, "Yes"—I was just going out—I did not get any malt—I think he
said he had taken some malt down the yard—I went away; I got back about 5 o'clock—I did not find any malt—I had forgotten it till Mr. Woodley and the policeman came; they asked if the prisoner had brought any malt; I took them to where I supposed it was, and there was this sack—I do not think it was opened in my presence—I did not see the contents of it—I did not notice the sack which I gave to Mr. Woodley—it was not my sack.
JURY. Q. Had the prisoner ever brought any there before? A. Yes, once before, and he then brought some malt—I did not know him any other way than by his coming and having a pint of beer—I keep a public house.
JOHN WOODLEY . I am a maltster, at Strand-on-the-Green, at Chiswick. The prisoner was in my service from Oct up to last Monday; he was fore-man at one of my malt houses, and had the charge of everything there—in consequence of what I heard from the last witness, I went on Monday evening to look for the prisoner, and met him; I said to him, "You were seen to-day with a sack; what was in that sack?"—he said, "Sawdust"—I asked him where he brought it from—he said, "Scott's"—I detained him, and vent with the officer to Mr. Allen's brewery—I was there shown this sack—it was taken to the station and opened; it contained malt—I examined it, and I believe it is mine—I had a considerable bulk of it, about eighty quarters—I have examined it since, and there was some missing—it was Irish malt—I have had similar sacks to this in my possession—the malt comes in sacks, and they remain there—I believe this sack to have been on my premises.
GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 13.— Confined Fourteen Days.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .† Aged 17.— Confined Three Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .* Aged 16.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
JOHN ALLUM . I am assistant to Mr. Gouldham, the clerk of Billingsgate-market. On 11th Feb. I was in the market, between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning—I saw the prisoner remove a basket of fish from opposite Mr. Hewitt's form, and he carried it out of the market—I followed him, and told him he was doing wrong—he said it belonged to a costermonger.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me take it? A. Yes; I was standing there, and saw you—I took you to another person first, because I was not certain
from whose stock you took it—you removed it with your, feet a little way, and then took it up, and carried it before you out of the market—you told me it belonged to a costermonger—you did not ask me to come with you, and you would show me the man.
WILLIAM BISHOP . I am in the employ of Mr. Samuel Hewitt. The last witness came to me with the prisoner, and produced a pad of soles—I knew them by the tally on the basket—they belonged to Mr. Samuel Hewitt—I had not sold it.
Prisoner's Defence. I was standing in the market, and a man came to me and said he would give me a penny to take it out of the market; when this man came to me and took me, I told him to come with me, and I would take him to where the man was, and he would not, but he took me in the market.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Twelve Months.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 36.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Two Months.
JAMES EALES . I am a hay dealer. The prisoner was in my employ rather better than twelve months—on 1st Feb. I gave him 9l. 2s. 10d. and 6d.—9l. was to pay for six loads of straw, 2s. 10d. to pay the tolls, and 6d. to get refreshment on the road—this was on Wednesday, about 8 o'clock in the morning—he ought to have been back about 7 or 8 o'clock in the evening—he did not return till 5 o'clock the next morning—I asked him where he had been, and he said the foreman was not at home, and he could not get loaded before 9 o'clock at night.
THOMAS GASKIN . I am foreman to Mr. Morton. On 1st Feb. the prisoner came for some straw, about 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I was at home—there was no delay in loading his wagon—he paid me 7l. 18s. 6d., and said that was all his master gave him, and his master would send the other the next time he came—I let him have the straw.
Prisoner. I said I had lost a sovereign. Witness. No; he said that was all his master gave him.
GEORGE CHATHAM . I went with the prisoner part of the way to Rickmansworth—James Wiltshire was with the prisoner—I went with them to the Bell public-house—I saw the prisoner change a sovereign to pay for a pot of porter.
Prisoner's Defence. I was three hours and a half in getting up one hill;
I had to go back and help the others up; I offered to pay my master at 5s. a week.
GUILTY . Aged 18.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Two Months.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, February 28th, 1854.
PRESENT—Sir GEORGE CARBOLL, Knt., Ald., Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. MOON.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
357. HENRY SIMMONDS was indicted for embezzling and stealing the sums of 9s. 6d. and 9s. 9d., which he had received on account of James Thompson, his master; also, for unlawfully obtaining money by false pretences: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 47.— Confined Four Months.
MARY DENNIS . I am a widow. The prisoner lodged at my house, No. 18, Paul-street, Finsbury—he owed me, in Nov. last, about 2l. 10s. for rent—I had applied to him several times for payment, and on 25th Nov. he brought me this bill (produced), and asked me if I would take it for payment of the rent—I hesitated, but took it, thinking that it was true—I was to hold it as security, and when it became due I was to have the money—he proposed that to me—it is in the same state now as it was then—when it became due I went to where it was payable, No. 153, High-street, Borough, and showed it to Mr. Cumner, who is a draper; he said he knew nothing about it (I had advanced the prisoner 3l. 4s. besides the rent)—I sent a friend to the acceptor, William Smith, of Hammersmith, but could not find him—I told the prisoner that I had been to the Borough, and that the bill was dishonoured; he said he was much surprised, but he would get me the money from Mr. Blogg on the following Monday, before 12 o'clock—this was on Saturday—he went out on the Monday, about 9 o'clock, and did not return till 3 o'clock; he said he had been to Hammersmith, and had seen Mr. Smith, and he would send me the money on Tuesday (next day), at 3 o'clock—as no money came, I spoke to the prisoner, and I think he said it would come on Wednesday—I understood him that Mr. Blogg was to pay it—he said that on Tuesday afternoon, or Wednesday morning; after that he occasionally, from time to time, said he would get the money, and I should have it at such a time—he left my house on the following Sunday, and his wife told me that he had gone into the country—he was away three days—I had spoken to the police in the meantime, and when the prisoner came back he was taken into custody.
Prisoner. Q. When I gave you the bill, did not you agree to advance me a few shillings a week on it? A. Yes; that agreement was written down; this is it (produced)—by that agreement I was to have 18s. discount when I received the money for the bill—it is in your writing; I swear that—I cannot swear to the bill of exchange being your writing.
WILLIAM BLOGG . I am a brewer, of Clerkenwell, and reside in Great Percy-street. I have employed the prisoner, and have known him some time; he was formerly in the hop trade, and I have given him a few days
employ now and then to strain hops—I know no other William Blogg in the hop trade—this bill is not in my writing, nor did I authorise any person to write my name to it—I do not know such a person as Mr. Smith, a brewer, of Hammersmith.
JOHN CUMNER . I am a draper, of No. 153, High-street, Borough. I occupy the entire house, and have done so for eighteen years—I know nothing about this bill—I do not know William Smith, of Hammersmith, a brewer.
JAMES BRANNAN (police inspector, G). I took the prisoner at Mrs. Dennis's house—I told him I belonged to the police, and came to take him into custody for uttering to the prosecutrix, who was present, a forged bill of exchange for 9l. 18s., with intent to cheat and defraud her—he said, "I am sorry for it, it is a bad job; I suppose I must go with you?—I said, "Yes"—I have been to Hammersmith; there is no brewer of the name of Smith there; there is at Chiswick, but he knew nothing of the prisoner, or of the transaction.
Prisoner. My wife tells me that a person called on you last week to take up the bill. Witness. Yes, it was last Friday, but the bill was then in the hands of the police—he came alone, and did not give me any name or address.
(Bill read—London, Nov. 25, 1853, drawn by William Blogg on Mr. William Smith, brewer, of Hammersmith, and accepted by him; payable at No. 153, High-street, Borough, for 9l. 18s., two months after date, for value received in hops. The paper, called an agreement, was read, as follows: "Mr. W. Blogg. Dear Sir,—Mrs. Dennis agrees to take the bill for 9l. 18s., at two months, due 18th Jan., by deducting the 18s. John Chittenden.")
Prisoner's Defence. The bill is not my writing, neither have I put my name to it; I found it in Great Winchester-street, City, and as I was pressed for rent, I gave it to her.
GUILTY of uttering.
(Francis Nash deposed that he prosecuted the prisoner at this Court in 1847 or 1848, >for obtaining hops; that he was convicted, and was sentenced to six months imprisonment.) Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and BAYLEY conducted the Prosecution.
(The prisoner being a foreigner, the evidence was translated to him by on interpreter.)
OCTAIUS BADGER . I am a clerk in the Out-teller's Office of the Bank of England. On Monday, 6th Feb., about 1 o'clock in the day, I went to the office of Messrs. Westenhalz Brothers, No. 26, Mark-lane—I had this bill (produced) in my hand, to present for acceptance—(read: Dated Hamburgh, 13th Jan. 1854. Drawn on Westenholz Brothers, at one month after date, for 56l. 19s. 3d.; and endorsed, "Bank of England")—the office is on the second floor, and the door is on the staircase—I put the bill in the acceptance box—I could not see anything in the box, I could only see the orifice in the door—when I put the bill in, I saw a person standing opposite the door, leaning with his back against the banisters of the stairs, which led me to fold the bill up smaller than I should have done, if he had not been there—I am positive I put it into the box.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. There was a slit in the door? A. Yes;
a very wide one—I could not recognise the man—I am not in any office in the Bank of England which enables me to tell from whence the bill came.
MR. BAYLEY. Q. By whose direction did you take the bill? A. By the direction of the principal of the office; in the common course of business.
ROBERT OGILVY . I am clerk to Messrs. Westenholz Brothers, merchants, of No. 26, Mark-lane. It is my business to open the bill box door every morning and afternoon; I generally open it about 10 o'clock in the morning, and again about half past 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and take out any bills I find there, put them together straight, and either put them into the safe, or give them to one of the clerks—there is a door to the box on the inside, with a lock and key to it; and outside there is a brass plate with "Bills for acceptance" engraved on it—the key is kept on a hook in the office, and the box is always kept locked—on Monday, 6th Feb., I went to the box as usual, but I am not aware whether there was anything in it that morning—on the afternoon of that day two gentlemen came; I did not see them come, but I came into the office shortly after 1 o'clock, and they were there then; it might be 5 or 10 minutes past 1 o'clock—they were in the inner office, the partners' room when I went in, and there was a man, who I suppose was with them, sitting in the outer office—I did not take sufficient notice of him to be able to recognise him again—shortly afterwards one of the gentlemen told the man to go down stairs and pay for the cab which they had come in—he went out of the office, and I went out at the same time, and saw him speak to the cabman—I did not see him go up again, as I went as far as Tower-hill—I came back again in five or six minutes, and the same man was standing on the landing outside the office door—I did not see him go into the office again—I do not remember how long the two gentlemen remained—I opened the bill box about half past 4 o'clock, and found a large quantity of bills, but this bill produced was not among them.
Cross-examined. Q. How many clerks are there in the office? A. Five, including myself—I had at that time some outdoor duties to discharge; they occupied from five minutes to an hour, and sometimes longer—it was always my duty alone to open the box, but every one had access to the key; I did not take it out with me when I went on any outdoor errand.
MR. BAYLEY. Q. Have you ever known any of the other clerks open that box? A. I have occasionally, but very seldom—it was my duty alone to open it.
COURT. Q. What is the size of the opening on the outside of the door? A. About eight inches long, and an inch and a half wide—I do not recollect that I have ever taken anything out of the box from the outside, nor do I recollect anybody making the experiment in my presence.
ERNEST ADOLPHE DELCOMYM . I am a clerk, in Messrs. Westenholz's office. On Monday, 6th Feb., shortly after 1 o'clock, I went out of the office, and met two foreign gentlemen on the staircase, followed by the prisoner, who was with them—they asked me for Mr. Westenholz's, and I showed them into Mr. Westenholz's room, and asked the prisoner to go into the clerks' office and take a seat; he declined at first, but I told him it might be a long time before the gentlemen came out again, and opened the door, gave him a chair and made him sit down—I then went out, and returned in about half an hour afterwards, when the prisoner was standing outside on the landing, a little distance from the door—I said nothing to him—the next time I saw him was on the following Thursday, the 9th, outside the Mansion-house—I asked him if he knew me again; and
after some hesitation he said, "No"—I then asked him if he did not accompany two foreign gentlemen to the City last Monday, but did not mention any house; he said, "Yes, to Mincing-lane;" I said, "No, to Mark-lane," and he said, "Yes, to Mark-lane"—I then asked him if he did not meet me on the stairs; he said, "Oh, yes, and you showed me into the room, and told me to take a seat"—it was Mr. Ogilvy's duty to open the bill-box twice a day; the slit on the outside measures about eight inches by an inch and a half—I have once or twice taken letters out through the slit; not by using any instrument, but the letters were very large.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen the man who accompanied the two gentlemen before that day? A. No; when I saw him on the 9th, he was walking up and down outside the Mansion-house; an officer called him out—he had been inside the Mansion-house, in prison, but the officer brought him out in order that I might see him—he was in custody—as soon as I had called my person to his recollection, he did not hesitate about my having given him a seat—I did not speak to the person who I met on the landing; when I returned, he was standing very close to the door; a step or two from it—he faced round to me when I came up—I knew at the time I saw him at the Mansion-house that he was in custody.
MR. BAYLEY. Q. When you saw him on the landing, did you take such notice of him that you are prepared to swear that he is the man you saw? A. Yes; I have no doubt about him.
COURT. Q. It is as well to ask you the question, Did you take the bill of exchange out of the box? A. No; I did not.
MARK LUDWIG BEWILLE . I am a native of Germany, but a naturalized Englishman by Act of Parliament—I quite understand English—I am a commission agent, of 33, Seckeford-street, Clerkenwell—I was a publican in Clerkenwell for fifteen years in one house, and for six or seven years I have carried on a commission business—I have known the prisoner eighteen months or two years; when I first knew him he kept a chandler's shop, but latterly he was at the Royal Hotel, Blackfriars-bridge, as night porter; he was there within these two months to my recollection. On Wednesday, 8th Feb., between 10 and 11 o'clock, I believe, he came to my house, and said he wanted to speak to me—I asked him if it was anything particular; he said, "Yes"—I said, "I will fetch my hat, and we will go to a public house "—I went with him to the Anchor, in St. John-street—when we got there, he said his master had discharged him; I said, "Why?" he said he was accused of not doing any work that night; that must have been Tuesday night, the last night—he said, "I have spoken to the porters about it; my master is very hasty, but I dare say it will be all right again"—he then said that two Danish gentlemen who he had been cleaning clothes for, and who had come from Denmark on diplomatic service, and who had fourteen or fifteen pairs of boots, ten or twelve coats, and so on, asked him what he would charge if he went out with them, and cleaned the boots, and brushed the clothes; and that he said he would consider about it, and let them know; and that he was to go out with them as interpreter and show them the town—he then said, "I think I can buy a bill very cheap;" I said, "What bill?" he said, "I think it is a bill of the Bank of England"—I told him that there were a great many different bills of the Bank of England, and if I could see the bill I could tell him what it was—I asked him if he had got it; he said, "No, but he could buy it for a few shillings"—I said I wished I could see it; "Well,"
he said, "I tell you now, I have got it," and produced it to me; this (produced) is it—I asked him where he got it; he said he bought it of a bricklayer—I asked him whether he knew the bricklayer; he said, "Yes"—I asked him where the bricklayer found it; he said, "At the Post-office"—I told him that it was a very strange place to find a bill like that—he asked me whether I thought I could negotiate the bill; I said, "I should advise you to take it to the Bank of England, you can take it yourself; or I will go with you if you wish me, and by so doing I have no doubt but that they will give you 5l.;" and I said, "Honesty is the best policy," and told him that as his character was very black in London previously, it might be a great advantage to him in future if he took it to the Bank of England; that it would be a benefit to him—I spoke it in a friendly way, friendly advice—he said, "No, I will go down to White-chapel to the Minories, and see if I cannot negotiate it among the Jews"—I said nothing more; but in a minute or two I asked for the bill again, he gave it to me, and I noticed it particularly, so that I knew where to apply to; I then gave it back to him, and we made an appointment for the next day to meet me at my house, 33, Seckeford-street, to go to Mr. Saunders, a house agent in New Oxford-street; he then left, and I went to Smithfield, got a Directory, found out where Messrs. Westenholz lived, and went to 26, Mark-lane, where I saw one of the partners—on the following day I spoke to Spittle, the officer—next day, Thursday, the 9th, the prisoner came to my house, about 10 o'clock, I believe it was; I then went with him to Mr. Saunders; on the way there, I told him I thought I could get it discounted at Messrs. Reid's brewery, in Liquorpond street—he said, "Whatever you get, I will give you half"—I asked him for the bill; he said he had not got it with him, he had it at home and would fetch it; I said, "Very well, I will wait for you at Reid's tap, at the brewery;" there are two taps there, one for the draymen and the other for the clerks—he left me in Holborn, at the corner of Gray's Inn-lane—I met him at Reid's tap, three quarters of an hour afterwards—he said, "l am very hungry, I want some luncheon;" he had some bread and cheese and a glass of stout, and after that he gave me the bill; and said, "Now you can get it"—I said, "What name? you must endorse the bill when it is paid;" he said, "I will not put my own name"—he told me he gave the bricklayer 1l. 5s. for it; I said it was very cheap—he said that anything I got for it he would give me half—he gave me the bill in the tap; I took it into the counting house, and gave it to Spittle, the officer, who was there by previous arrangement with me.
Cross-examined. Q. When the prisoner first came to you, being an old acquaintance, you adjourned to the public house? A. Yes; that was my proposition; he was agreeable—I have been a licensed victualler for some years—the prisoner was formerly a countryman of mine; I hear that he came from the neighbourhood of Frankfort—I had known him about a year and a half, or it might be a year and nine months, or two years—I do not know that it was through my means that he got the place at this hotel; I take in the Times in the morning, and I saw the place advertised—I assisted him so far in getting it—the hotel is kept by a Belgian—I know that this is the same bill—the amount of it is 56l., and, I believe, 14s. 3d., or something like it; I could not swear to the shillings—I have seen it since several times, I did not see any acceptance; I looked at it—I noticed the amount of the money when I looked at it—I am sure of that; I am not sure as to the 14s. 3d., but I am sure as to the 56l.—I know the date for payment,
but not the date of the bill—I might have mentioned before about the prisoner going to the Minories, and getting it changed among the Jews, or I might not; he said he would go to Whitechapel or the Minories to have the bill negotiated, to get some money—I do not know whether I mentioned it before to-day—there are very likely many things that I have not mentioned that I could mention now—I believe I have mentioned before about going to Mr. Saunders, the house agent—I believe I mentioned it when the solicitor of the Bank of England took the evidence down; I can undertake to say that I have rejected the conversation accurately—I took him to Reid's by design—he told me that he had bought this bill—he never at any time said anything different from that—he had told me the previous day that he could buy it—he said, "I can get it for a few shillings, and I think I will buy it"—when I met him on Thursday, I never mentioned anything about the bill—I had not made an appointment with him about the bill, my appointment was to go to Saunders, not for the purpose of getting it discounted—he had taken a house of Saunders, and I had been there several times with him—he had said, the previous day, that he would see about getting the bill discounted; and as soon as he saw me on the Thursday, he said, "I don't think I will have anything more to do with the bill"—the principal appointment we made was to go to Saunders about this house, to have the agreement made out—I did not imply that it was for any purpose connected with the bill—I took him to Reid's for the purpose of having it discounted; he said to me at first he would not have anything more to do with the bill, but at last he said, "I bought the bill; how much do you think I bought it for?"—I attempted to deceive him about negotiating the bill, or else I should not have made the appointment—I have seen him at times while he was at the Royal Hotel; I was in the habit of associating with him.
DANIEL MAY (City-policeman, 14). On Thursday, 9th Feb., about 1 o'clock in the day, the prisoner was brought to the Bank of England, by Spittle—Spittle asked me to take charge of the prisoner, and said in his presence, that he was charged with stealing a bill, or words to that effect; Spittle went away—the prisoner afterwards said to me, "I did not steal the bill, I bought it of a man of the name of Goldsmith, in Petticoat-lane, and gave him 51l. for it; I was buying some slippers of him in Petticoat-lane, and the man Goldsmith saw that I had so much money in my purse that he asked me to buy the bill; I went with him into a public house in Whitechapel, and paid him for the bill"—he said Goldsmith lived in Goulstone-street, but that he had never been to his house—I asked him how he came to buy the bill—he said he saw "Bank of England" on the bill, and he thought it was all right; he said he paid 51l. for it—I afterwards took him to the station, he there gave his address as living in a court in Water-lane, but he did not know the number—I have since been there—in fact the prisoner showed me the house, it turns out to be a house in Huish-court, in the neighbourhood of the Royal Hotel.
Cross-examined. Q. That was the house where he resided? A. It was—it depends upon circumstances whether I ask questions of a prisoner; it depends upon where he is found, or what he is charged with—if he was found in possession of certain things which he had not accounted for, I should question him—I think that right—I asked the prisoner the questions I have stated, and he gave me those answers—he did not hesitate about it—I consider that he talked very freely—I put my questions very freely—I think that was my duty.
JOHN SPITTLE (City policeman). In consequence of information I received, I communicated with Mr. Bewille—I received instructions from the authorities of the Bank of England the day previously, the 8th—I went by arrangement to Reid's brewery, in Liquorpond-street, on the 9th—Mr; Bewille brought the bill to me, and afterwards the prisoner—this is the bill—I showed it to the prisoner, and said, "Does this bill belong to you?"—he said, "Yes"—he did not then know that I was an officer—I said, "Did you send it to the brewery by this gentleman?" meaning Mr. Bewille, who was present—he said, "Yes"—I asked him what he wished to have done with it—he said he wished it to be discounted—I said, "It will be necessary to make some inquiries about it; where did you get it I"—he said, "I got it of a man named Goldsmid, a slipper manufacturer, of No. 10, Goulstone-street, Whitechapel"—I asked him when he got it—he said, "Last Tuesday "—I then said, "We will go to Goldsmid "—he said, "I have not time; I have an appointment at 1 o'clock; I will call at the brewery again"—the prisoner and I left the brewery, and went together to the City—on our way there I said to him, "What did you give for the bill?"—he said, "51l.; and I am to have 5l. 19s. 3d. discount"—before that I asked him, "What is your name?"—he said, "John Valentine Raemer"—I said, "Where do you live?—he said, "No. 36, Turnimill-street"—he did not say where Turnmill-street was—I afterwards took him to the Bank of England, and the authorities directed me to charge him with stealing the bill—I took him to the station and searched him, and found on him six sovereigns and sixpence-halfpenny, a gold chain, a porte monnaie, and a memorandum book—I have made inquiries at No. 10, Goulstone-street; I did not find any person named Goldsmid there—I afterwards told the prisoner that no such person lived at either No. 10 (there are two Nos. 10), and he said, "I never went to Goldsmid's house, but he told me he lived there."
Cross-examined. Q. When you first saw the prisoner, Bewille was there, was he? A. He was; he was present when the prisoner talked of the bill having been sold to him by Goldsmith—the Bank of England is about a mile and a quarter from Reid's brewery—there are two Nos. 10 in Goulstone-street; I inquired at both—there are witnesses here from each house—I took a note in writing of the place where he said he lived; I have it in my book—I am sure he said Turnmill-street; it was not any court.
MR. BAYLEY Q. Have you the memorandum here that you made at the time? A. Yes, this is it (preferring to it); it is "John Valentine Raemer, No. 36, Turnmill-street"
COURT. Q. Have you inquired whether he ever lived there at any time? A. I have not inquired; but I have no doubt about it—he walked with me from the brewery into the City—I said to him, "Where are you going?"—he said, "To Blackfriars;" and I said, "That is all in the way to the City"—it was at the Bank of England that I informed him I was an officer—when we got to the corner of Farringdon-street he was going to turn off; I said, "It will be necessary to go to the Bank of England"—he said, "I have received no money from you"—I said, "No, but you must go to the Bank of England"—he said, "Very well, you must do as you like;" and then he walked on.
ISRAEL GOODMAN . I am a schoolmaster, and lodge at No. 10, Goulstone-street, Whitechapel; I have done so about five years; my wife is a shoe manufacturer. There is another No. 10 in the street—I know most of the persons who have lodged there during that period—no person of the name of Goldsmid or Goldsmith has lodged there, to my knowledge.
COURT. Q. Is it your house? A. No; it is let out in tenements; I
have the ground floor—I have never seen the prisoner at the house, to my knowledge.
Cross-examined. Q. You have not had the letting of the tenements, have you? A. No; I am acquainted with all the lodgers—those who live in the second and third floors, at times have different parties who come backwards and forwards, and may lodge in the same room—they are Irish, and those I am not acquainted with.
MR. BAYLEY. Q. You do not know the friends of the persons who lodge there? A. No; I know those who occupy the rooms; but sometimes they take an extra lodger in their own apartments—those persons, of course, I am not acquainted with—I cannot say whether any of those persons were named Goldsmith—I know the names of the persons who occupy the rooms—no person named Goldsmith has occupied a room there.
EMANUEL HART I am the rent gatherer of the other No, 10, Goulstone street. I know the names of all the persons who have occoupied rooms there; no person named Goldsmith has lived there—I have collected the rent there about four years.
Cross-examined. Q. Into how many tenements is the house divided? A. Into five tenements—receive rent from five tenants—they do not underlet; they are not at liberty to do so—I do not allow it—I am in the habit of going up to their rooms two or three times a week.
(MR. LILLEY submitted that, as the bill was without acceptance, it could not be deemed a bill of exchange, as it was alleged in the indictment to be, nor of the value stated, as. the acceptance was that which gave it validity and value. The RECORDER considered that as it was in the ordinary form of a foreign bill of exchange, there was nothing in the objection.)
ROBERT OGILY re-examined. The bill box is about a foot deep, and half a foot wide—there were, I should think, between fifteen, and twenty bills in it when I opened it—bills are generally left between 11 and 4 o'clock; it is uncertain when.
GUILTY . Aged 42.— Confined Eighteen Months.
360. THOMAS HANCOCKS , stealing, on 4th Feb., 1 concertina and 1 box, value 10s., on 6th Feb., 1 other concertina and box, value 10s. 2d.; and on 7th Feb. 1 other concertina and box, a cigar case, and a pair of spectacles, value I 1s. 8d.; also, 3 other concertinas, value 30s., the goods of Frederick Ernest Daniel Hast, his master: to all which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
(The prosecutor gave him a good character, and recommended him to mercy.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 48.— Confined Four Months on each Indictment; the second term to commence on the expiration of the first.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Six Months more.
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
WALTER TYRRELL . I am in the service of Hitchcock and Co., drapers, in St. Pauls-churchyard. I produce a bill—I do not know in whose handwriting it is—some one in our firm paid the money; I cannot say who—the bill is extracted from the file of receipts of Oct. last—no one in the house can say who actually paid the money.
WILLIAM JACKSON BATES . I am agent for the Patent Wadding Company. The name of the firm is William Bates, jun, and Co.—they have three establishments; one at Walworth, one in Knight Rider-street, and one at Manchester—the prisoner came into my service on 5th Oct. last—he had previously been in my service—he was a junior clerk—he occasionally collected orders—he had authority to collect money—he was to account for it to my brother Henry, or to Mr. Butler, the manager—there was no one else to whom he could have accounted—he left my service on 27th Oct. of his own accord—he had not given me any notice—we did not find this out till the 28th—I know his handwriting (looking at the bill)—I see his writing on this bill—there is no date to it—the words "H. N. Overton pro W. W. Co." are the prisoner's writing—(this being read, was made out to Messrs. Hitchcock and Co. as debtors to Walworth Wadding Company, for goods supplied, 1l. 11s. discount, 9d. total, 1l. 10s. 3d. Paid H. N. Overton, pro W. W. Co.)—the "W. W. Co" stands for Walworth Wadding Company"—after he went away, on the 27th, he was apprehended—I afterwards saw him in Newgate; that was at his own request—I made no promise to him, or held out any threat—that was before his last trial—he said he wanted to see me, to ask me to be as lenient as possible to him on the trial—I cannot remember the exact words he made' use of—the substance of it was, "Will you do all you can to get me off?"—I asked him whether he had received any other accounts—he said he had—he gave me the particulars of them, which I took down at the time—the amount in question is among them—I have got it down, "Hitohcocks, 1l. 10s."—he told me that he had received 1l. 10s. from Hitohcocks'; he also said he had received 9s. from Mr. Ensoll—he did not say what he had done with the money—I asked him what amount he had received—he hesitated some time, but he eventually gave me the amounts—he stated that he had been in bad company, and that was the cause of his having taken the money—he stated who the bad company was—he named the person—he said he had been with one of our men, that he had led him astray, and that he had appropriated the moneys which really belonged to us to his own purposes—I am quite sure he told me that—he never accounted to me for the money.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. do you mean that he used those words, that he appropriated the money to his own purposes? A. He did—I cannot swear to the exact words of a conversation which took place three or four months ago, but it was to that effect—I did not make a minute of it; I took down the sums—nobody was present—I said that I was sorry for him—I said so more than once—I did not say I would do all I could for him, nor that I would do anything for him, although he and the family tried over and over again to induce me to make a promise to that effect—that was before I went to see him—they called on me—I did not tell them I would do the best I could for him—on my oath, I never conveyed to him that I was able to help him, or that I would help him; I
studiously avoided it—the statement he made to me in Newgate was perfectly voluntary—he has been tried before, not on one of these cases, but upon a case that he mentioned to me—he was convicted, and relieved on a point of law—if he had not applied for 12l. or 13l., he would not have been again prosecuted—he is not married—when I speak of his family, I mean his mother and brother—he does not support them, nor does he contribute to their support.
MR. PARRY. Q. What was the amount of the former case? A. From 36l. to 37l., it was in two amounts.
MR. BALLANTINE to MR. BATES. Q. Did you not suppose that somebody had instigated the prisoner to this? A. Not at all—the person he mentioned is not now in our employment—I believe what the prisoner stated with reference to that person was true; I believe that he was the means of it originally—the prisoner was three years in our employ previously, and bore a very good character up to the time of his first leaving us.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Fifteen Months.
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN GUNN (police-sergeant, G 8). In consequence of information I received on Sunday, 12th Feb. I went to No. 27, Garnault-place, Clerken-well, which is the house of the prisoner's sister—I found the prisoner there, in the kitchen—I said to him, "You must come along with me, Mr. Pearce"—he said, "What charge have you got against me?"—I said, "The charge against you will be, returning to this country before the expiration of the term of your transportation"—he at first said, "I have never been out of England;" but on the way to the station, he said he thought he had done enough, and undergone hardships enough, in Van Diemen's Land and other places, during his period of transportation—he was a good deal in liquor—I have here a copy of the paper, which we received from Hobart Town, containing his description.
WILLIAM SINNOCK (policeman, F 91). I produce a certificate—(this being read, certified the conviction of Villiers Pearce at this Court, for felony, in Oct., 1846, and then proceeded to state that the said WILLIAM Pearce was ordered to be transported for ten years)—I was present at the trial—the prisoner is the person who was so tried—he was convicted in my hearing—I heard the sentence passed upon him—it was ten years' transportation—he is the man.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was read as follows: "At the period of the offence for which I was convicted I was suffering from the most acute pecuniary distress, with a wife and large family of children, a series of misfortunes; the most heavy was the death of my second wife, by which I lost an annuity of 150l., with a great falling off, notwithstanding all my exertions in my occupation as reporter to the public press, brought about mainly the distress in question; previous to the commission of the offence, I had through life borne an irreproachable character; in early life, from 1818 to 1822, I held some most responsible appointments in Jamaica and other West India Islands; from 1829 to 1834 I held the appointment of Magistrate's clerk and postmaster at Bong Bong in New South Wales; afterwards
was superintendent of large farms at Bathurst, over the Blue Mountains, in the same colony; at the latter period I had a wife, and family of young children; the former, a most amiable partner, I had the misfortune to lose in 1838, leaving me with seven young children; my connections are most respectable; my late father was an officer of rank, and of very meritorious services; my eldest brother is at present a major in the Royal Marine corps; I was convicted in October, 1846; was three months in Millbank Penitentiary, at which period fears were entertained that my intellects would become impaired in solitary confinement; subsequently I was three years and two months in the Warrior convict ship at Woolwich, during which period I was employed on the Government works in the dockyard; I was sent abroad in March, 1850; at Millbank and the Hulks I had the best possible character, as also on my arrival at Hobart Town, Van Diemen's Land, after a passage of four months—on my arrival I received a ticket of leave, which I retained until I left the colony, never having forfeited the game for a day by any kind of insubordinate conduct; my motive in leaving Van Diemen's Land was to proceed to the gold-diggings, in the hope I might be successful, and better the condition of my family at home, who are in very impoverished circumstances, but, although my exertions were very great in California, Victoria, and New South Wales, I was unsuccessful; it is true I made occasionally some money, but I was robbed of it on the road by armed bush-rangers, and frequently ill-used and robbed at Melbourne and Geelong by the worst of characters; I was shipwrecked twice, and once burnt out at sea, the first time in Torres Straits, between New, Holland and New Guinea, on a reef of coral rocks; upon this occasion I lost between 70l. and 80l. in cash, and all my luggage; eleven of us only got ashore, out of a ship's company of twenty-seven, chiefly Lascars, Malays, and Chinamen; after thirty days great suffering and privation, we were picked up by an American whaler, and ultimately reached Sydney, New South Wales; I was subsequently wrecked in a brigantine, called the Triton, going from Melbourne to Adelaide, and lost all I possessed in the world, having another very narrow escape of my life; in returning from San Francisco to Melbourne in a vessel called the White Squall, she caught fire about 350 miles from Tahiti (formerly called Otaheite), we were obliged to abandon her, and took to the boats, but a great number of the crew and passengers perished by fire and water, the survivors in the boats reaching Tahiti in about eight days, in a state of great exhaustion, many of whom died from the effects of the same; I had the misfortune to lose nearly all I possessed upon this occasion; on reaching Melbourne I was very ill, and went into the hospital; I left in about five weeks, intending to go again to Mount Alexander diggings, but owing to ill health, bad state of the roads from the floods, and limited means, I abandoned such; I had a twelvemonth before been to Ballarat, Mount Alexander, Forest Creek, Bendigo, and many other diggings, but at this time no police was organized, or gold escort troopers, consequently nearly all the unfortunate diggers were robbed of what they got, by hordes of bush-rangers, well mounted, and armed with revolvers and other weapons to the teeth; in returning to Melbourne from Forest Creek the last time, I was beat, stripped, and robbed of all I had, in the Black Forest, about half way between Melbourne and Mount Alexander; I left Melbourne in the brig, Kestril, for Sydney, New South Wales, at which place I was acquainted with many respectable parties, some of whom I had known as far back as 1829, when I first went to Sydney with my
wife and children; the Kestril put in at some of the settlements of New Zealand, at one of which (Auckland), was laying a barque, bound for England, in want of hands; the temptation was great to reach my dear family, for which I had mourned ever since I met with my misfortune; I shipped myself as ordinary seaman and assistant steward; we left the settlement in July, with a miserable crippled ship's company, and made a very severe passage round Cape Horn in the winter season, we carried away masts, sails, rigging, boats, bulwarks, stauncheons, &c., &c., some of the crew were lost front the yards, and most of us were frost bitten; we put into Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, South America, to refit and provision; we proceeded on our passage, crossed the Equator, touched at Terceira, one of the Azores, for two days, and reached England in Sept., after a severe passage of four months and twenty-six days from New Zealand; under all the circumstances of my present unhappy condition, I humbly hope the legislature will humanely consider the long, severe, and various description of punishments I have undergone since my conviction; I would also most respectfully call the attention of the authorities to the fact, that the offence for which I have so severely suffered, was the fist deviation from strict rectitude during my life, and that I have never since, upon any occasion whatever, received a second sentence, even of the most minor description; it was only required of me, by the then regulations of the service, that I should serve five years upon the public works at Woolwich; on my embarkation for Van Diemen's Land, I had done three years and four months; if I had completed the remainder twenty months I should have been discharged from the dockyard a free man; I also humbly beg to state, at the time I left Van Diemen's Land, six years after my conviction, I was entitled, by the regulations of the service, to a conditional pardon, which would have left me at liberty to leave the colony without further restraint; I beg to state, that during the period of three years and four months I was at the hulks I worked in all the gangs in the dockyard; upon several occasions I received severe injuries, some of which requiring me to be sent to the hospital ship; I was ruptured by carrying heavy weights, the effects of which I have frequently felt since, and do to the present day; during the two periods when the cholera raged at the hulks, I attended upon the sick at the hospital ships; I humbly implore the Government will have compassion upon me, for the sake of my numerous and respectable family, for my great mental and bodily sufferings since my conviction, and for my present weakly, worn out, debilitated state of health, and award me a mild sentence; during my captivity and absence, my unfortunate wife has suffered from great destitution, and buried two of her children; she is again bereaved of me in a distressed condition, with her only surviving child, a little girl of ten years of age."
JOHN GUNN re-examined. I have heard that statement of the prisoner read; I heard it before the Magistrate—I have not made any inquiries about it; no doubt it is true, but it all happened abroad—I knew him before he was transported; he was then a reporter—I knew him then to be a respectable man—I knew him some years before his conviction—he used to report for the public press, at the different police courts—we received a large placard from Hobart Town, which was posted up in the charge room, so that all the officers could see it—it was not in consequence of information from any of the police that I went to take him—I cannot say from whom I received it; but an anonymous letter was sent, we never
knew by whom, stating he was at large; it was from somebody that knew him, no doubt.
William Anderton, a fur skin dresser, of 4, Red Lion-street, Clerkenwell, and Catharine Anderton, his wife, deposed to the prisoner's good character prior to his conviction in 1846, and expressed their belief of the truth of the statement read.
MR. METCALFE submitted that from the defective form of the certificate, there was no legal proof that Villiers Pearce was the party sentenced, and that the prisoner was entitled to an acquittal. The RECORDER considered the objection to be well founded, and the Jury found the prisoner.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, February 28th, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald HUNTER; Mr. Ald. CHALLIS; and RUSSELL
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Sixth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months. [See page 412.]
PLEADED GUILTY .— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. ELLIS and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL JARMAN . I am clerk to the Solicitor of the Treasury. I produce a certificate of the conviction of John Entwistle—(read: Convicted of uttering counterfeit coin in Jan. 1853, and confined six months.)
Prisoner. This officer knows me as a hard working man. Witness. I know nothing of him—I have seen him in a sooty dress—he is a sweep.
JAMES GIBLETT . I am shopboy at Mr. Buekton's ham and beef shop near Leicester-square. On 17th Jan., about a quarter before 9 o'clock at night, the prisoner came in for a 1d. saveloy—I served him, he gave me a bad shilling—I found it out the moment I took it in my hand—I told him it was a bad one—he said he had it in change at a night house in Tottenham-court-road—I should know the shilling again by a out on the side of it—I gave it to the shopman—I am sure the one I gave him was the one the prisoner gave me.
Prisoner. Q. You went to my place, No. 29, Crown-street? A. Yes.
Prisoner. The shilling went through three or four different hands, and he said he took four or five bad shillings, it might have been one of them. Witness. I went to his place first, and found he lived there—I then marked
the shilling, and gave it to the policeman; I had some other bad shillings which I showed afterwards.
Prisoner. Q. You took me at my own door? A. Yes; I did.
JANE LEIGH . I am the wife of John Leigh a tobacconist, in Newport-street. On the last night in Jan., the prisoner came to my shop—he asked for 2s. worth of Pickwicks—I put them in a paper, and he tendered me a 5s. piece; I looked at it, and gave it to my son to get change—he brought it back, and I told the prisoner it was bad—he asked me to give it him—I said, "No; where did you get it?"—he said, "A gentleman gave it me to get 2s. worth of Pickwicks"—I told him I would go to the gentleman—he then tried to get out of the shop; a person stopped him, he struck her—I prevented him going; he struck me, but I detained him.
Prisoner. I did not strike you. Witness. Yes; you did—this is the 5s. piece—I did not put it in the till, and then take it out and give it to the boy.
JOHN LEIGH . I remember on the night the prisoner came, my mother gave me a 5s. piece; this is it—I took it to the next door, and gave it to the barmaid—she said it was bad; I brought it back to my mother—I did not lose sight of it while the barmaid was looking at it—she said it was bad, and gave it to Mr. Folkes; he took the pincers off the table and bent it—I did not lose sight of it.
Prisoner. He swore at the police court, that the man went back with it to a table. Witness. So he did.
JAMES GILES BARBER (policeman, C 59). I took the prisoner in New-port-street, about 10 o'clock at night—he was in the street struggling with some persons, trying to get away—I took him back to the shop, and Mrs. Leigh gave me this 5s. piecethe prisoner gave the name of John Goddard, No. 4, Ball's Pond—I have inquired, it is a false address.
Prisoner's Defence. That 5s. piece was out of my sight for a quarter of an hour; I am guilty of going in with the 5s. piece, but not knowing it was bad; the shilling I know nothing about.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MESSRS. ELLIS and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
MORRIS HARLEY . I keep the Cherry Tree public house, in Whitecross-street On Saturday, 28th Jan., the prisoners came about 3 o'clock in the afternoon; Clase asked for a quartern of gin, stating it was her birthday—I supplied them with it, and Clase, to the best of my recollection, tendered me a shilling—I put it in the till—I cannot tell whether I had any other money there—they came in again in four or five minutes afterwards; Clase again asked for gin, stating it was her birthday; she gave me a shilling, and they drank the gin there—Clase then asked Godfrey for another shilling—I did not notice her give it, because there was a partition between where I was standing and her; but Clase gave me a third shilling, which I put in
the till, and in two or three minutes afterwards, in consequence of information I received, I tried to see if the shillings were good—I then found that beside the three shillings, there was one other shilling in the till, which was found to be good—I do not know how I became possessed of that fourth shilling—I left the good shilling in the till, and put the other three in my pocket—I went out to see if I could find a policeman, but I could not—the prisoners came again, about 6 o'clock the same evening, and Godfrey asked for a quartern of gin—I supplied her with it, and she tendered me a half crown; I looked at it, and discovered it was bad—I did not say anything to the prisoners, but I drew the gin, and took it back—the prisoners left, and I followed them, and gave them into custody—during that time I did not put the half crown out of my hand; this is it—I gave that and the three shillings to the policeman at the station.
Clase. We first went in with a postman; this woman had twopence, and I was twopence; we put down fourpence. Witness. I have no recollection of that.
Godfrey. I asked you to give me some silver for some halfpence. Witness. I have no recollection of it; I could almost swear there was nothing of the sort.
Clase's Defence. We went in the house and had a quartern of gin; the postman was with us; we went in a second time; I had no silver in my possession, only tenpence in halfpence.
Godfrey's Defence. I went in with a man and had some gin; I have no recollection of going in again; we were both drunk.
CLASE— GUILTY . Aged 25.
GODFREY— GUILTY . Aged 38.
Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS. and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
ISABELLA BEECH . I am the wife of James Beech; he keeps a greengrocer's shop in High-street, Hounslow. On the evening of the 7th Feb. the prisoner came for a pennyworth of apples; I served him, and he gave me a sixpence to change—he appeared tipsy—I was frightened at him, and gave him the change before I looked at the sixpence—when he got to the door I tried the sixpence on the counter, and found it was bad—I called to the prisoner; he did not come back—I went to the door; there were some boys outside; I asked them to stop him—they met a policeman, and gave him in charge—I gave the sixpence to the policeman; I had not parted with it before—this is it.
CHARLES CHAPMAN (police sergeant, T 49). I was on duty in High-street, Hounslow, on the 7th Feb.—I received information and took the prisoner—I searched him, and found a counterfeit sixpence in his right hand trowsers pocket; I received this other sixpence from the witness—I found on the prisoner 4s. 8 1/2 d., all in copper, and 2s. 4d. in silver, in a brass tobacco box.
Prisoner's Defence. I went to a public house to change a half sovereign;
they gave me 5s. worth of copper, wrapped in paper, and the rest in silver; I went to get some apples, and when I came out the policeman took me; I was very much in liquor.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
JANE MARIS WAIT . My husband keeps the Red Lion public house, in Clarges-street. On 20th Jan. the prisoner came, and asked for 1 1/2 d. worth of rum—I served her; she gave me a half crown; I gave her change—as soon as she was gone I examined the half crown, and discovered it was bad—I locked it up apart from other money—on 1st. Feb. the prisoner came again, about the same time in the evening—she asked for half a quartern of gin; she tendered me a shilling—I knew her as the person who had been there before—I rather objected to the shilling—she said it was a good one—I took it, and gave her change—I afterwards found it was bad, and put it with the half crown—on 10th Feb. the prisoner came again, about the same time in the evening; she asked for 1 1/2 d. worth of rum—she tendered me in payment a shilling—I gave her change for it, and the moment she left the bar I perceived it was bad—I sent my potman after her; he brought her back—I charged her with having uttered bad money to me—she said she had not; and after a time she said she gave a shilling, but she did not know it was bad; and she had got a penny, which she would leave me for the rum.
Prisoner. I am not the person who went on the two former occasions. Witness. I gave her change for the second piece, because she said it was good—I recognised her the third time, but I still gave her the change.
JOHN FOSTER . I am potman to the last witness. I remember the prisoner coming to my mistress's on 20th Jan.; she was supplied with 1 1/2 d. worth of rum—I saw my mistress give her change for a half crown—I remember the prisoner coming again, about ten days afterwards, for half a quartern of gin, and she gave my mistress a shilling—I remember her coming on the last occasion, and in consequence of instructions from my mistress I followed the prisoner, and overtook her about 100 yards off—I touched her on the shoulder, and said, "Just come back with me"—when she came to the corner she said, "Where the h—are you going to take me? "—I said, "Just a little further"—I took her to the house, and she was given in charge.
COURT. Q. Did you see the prisoner the first time? A. Yes, I saw her all three times; there was nothing to call my attention to her—there are a great many persons come in.
WILLIAM CARTER . I took the prisoner into custody on 10th Feb.—she said it was the first time she had ever been in the house, and she did not know the shilling was bad—she had a sixpence in silver on her, and six-pennyworth of coppers—she refused to give her address—I received these two shillings and half crown from Mrs. Wait.
Prisoner's Defence. I never was in that house but once; I uttered the shilling, I know; it was a very cold day, and I went and had the rum; when the man came after me and took me back, the woman said, "This is a bad shilling;" I said I was not aware of it; she said, "If I am not mistaken, you are the person who uttered more bad money;" she went to a till, and she said, "I have no doubt you are the woman that gave me this other money;" I never was in the house before; she says she gave me change
three times, and she sent the potman after me the third time; I asked for a small glass of rum.
GUILTY of passing the last shilling. Aged 34.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK Conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN WILLIAM BOLTON . I keep a chandler's shop, in Russell-court, Drury-lane. On 3rd Feb., the prisoner came for half a pound of sugar—she gave me a sixpence, and I gave her 4d. change—she went out of the shop—I had kept the sixpence in my hand, and after she was gone I looked and found it was bad; it had not been out of my hand—I ran round the counter, but I did not see the prisoner—I put the sixpence on a shelf, apart from other coin—on the Wednesday after, the prisoner came again for half a pound of 5d. loaf sugar; I served her, and she put down a shilling—I took it, and said, "I don't know what sort of a shilling this is, but, at any rate, you gave me a bad sixpence"—I turned, and took the sixpence down from the shelf—she said, "I am very sorry; I was not aware it was bad"—I reached down the detector, and found the shilling was bad—I gave the shilling and sixpence to Jones, and I ran round that the prisoner should not go out—Jones put the sixpence on the counter, and the prisoner took it up and put it in her mouth—the officer came, and the prisoner was given into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. CONNERLY Q. The sixpence she gave you first, you gave her change for; are you quite sure you kept it in your hand? A. Yes, I was looking at it; and in the mean time she went out of the shop—I did not put the sixpence in the till, I put it on the shelf—there was no one but my wife in the place, and she was very unwell at the time, and did not come into the shop—I had seen the prisoner at my shop before—I was not aware she was a servant, but she came to purchase articles and gave me good money, as far as I know.
RICHARD JONES . I was at the house of the last witness, on Wednesday night, 8th Feb.—I saw the prisoner there; she gave a shilling in payment, she placed it down on the counter—Mr. Bolton gave me the shilling and a sixpence, which I believe he took from a shelf—I was looking at them both together—I placed the sixpence on the counter, and was looking at the shilling—the prisoner reached her hand out, and I let her have the shilling; she put it in her mouth—I did not see her take the sixpence.
HENRY SEXTON . I am a labouring man; I live in Russell-court. I was in the shop when this happened—I saw the prisoner there, and the last witness—I saw Mr. Bolton take a sixpence from a shelf at the back of his counter; he showed it to the prisoner, and told her she tendered it to him some nights before—he showed it to Mr. Jones, who placed the sixpence on the counter—the prisoner directly put her fingers on the sixpence, and took it up and put it in her mouth—I did not notice what she did with the shilling.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
SOPHIA DIXON . I live in Eyre-street, Fitzroy-square. On 21st Jan., Simpson came, about a quarter past 5 o'clock, for a bonnet shape—she gave me in payment a half crown—I took it in the parlour; I thought it was not good; I gave it to my sister, she thought it was good; I left it with her—I gave the prisoner change, and she left the shop—I afterwards got the half crown again—my sister left it on the table, and I took it up—I tried it, and bent it—I put it in a drawer, where there was no other money—on Wednesday, 25th Jan., the prisoner came for a bonnet shape again, and she gave me a half crown; I looked at it and saw it had much the same look as the other—it looked dull—I rang the bell, and called my brother down—he took the half crown to the public house, he brought it back, threw it on the counter and said it was bad—Simpson was at the counter at the time—the half crown was bent at that time—I told my brother it was the same woman that was there on the Saturday, and told him to fetch a policeman—he went, but could not find a policeman—he went a second time, and when he was gone the second time the prisoner Day came into the shop—he asked Simpson how much longer she was going to keep him there—she said she had given a bad half crown—he said if his wife had bought anything he would pay for it; and he took out a shilling, I believe it was, but I declined to take it, and they both went out—I put the second half crown in the drawer with the other one—the officer came to the shop with the prisoners the same evening, and I gave him the two half crowns—I had not left the shop in the interim—no one else had put anything in that drawer or taken anything out—there was other money in the till, but not in the drawer.
LOUISA HITCHCOCK I am the sister of the last witness. On 21st Jan., she brought me a half crown into the parlour—it was only in my possession a few minutes; I thought it was good, I laid it on the table—my sister did not take it up while I was in the room, but nobody else went in the room.
Day. Q. Did you ever see me before? A. No; I did not see you then.
RICHARD WAY . I was called by my sister into the shop on that day—she gave me a half crown; I took it to a neighbour, and gave it to the barmaid—my neighbour tried it—I got the same back again, I believe—I came back, and threw it on the counter—Mrs. Dixon desired me to fetch an officer—I could not find one, I returned—the two prisoners were then leaving the shop—I followed them—they stood three or four minutes talking, they then separated—I followed Simpson; I met the constable—I took Simpson to the shop, and she was given in charge—I saw Day standing at the corner of a street, and I desired the officer to take him—I saw the officer take three half crowns out of his hand at the station, they were wrapped in a piece of paper.
Day. Q. Was I with this woman when she went out of the shop? A. Yes; but you separated before I saw the policeman.
ANDREW PACKHAM (policeman, C 131). I took the prisoner, Day, in King-street; he said he had nothing to do with that woman—I had not said anything to him about the woman—I took him by the arm; he put his left hand in his pocket and took out something in paper—I seized his left hand, and found in it three counterfeit half crowns wrapped in brown paper—I found one bad half crown in his waistcoat pocket—he said he had had it given to him.
Simpson. This man is a perfect stranger to me; I asked him to hold this money; it had been given to me by a gentleman, whom I had left about two hours; this man knows nothing of it.
Day's Defence. I sold this woman five or six pounds of potatoes, and she asked me to mind the potatoes and this money for her; she went in the shop, and I went in to see what was the matter; I offered to pay for anything she had bought; we came out, and she went one way and I another; I saw her taken, and I went to know what she was taken for; the woman said, "Take that man;" and I was taken.
SIMPSON— GUILTY . Aged 29.
DAY— GUILTY . Aged 46.
Confined Nine Months.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
SEPTIMUS GILLETT . I am landlord of the Cock Tavern, in Portman-street. On 9th Feb. the prisoner and two other men came to my house—I was not present when they came in; I came in while they were there—there was no gin before them—my barmaid had taken it away again—she told me that the prisoner had put down a bad shilling that she had broken up, and thrown the pieces down, and the other two men, who came in with the prisoner, took the pieces up, and one of the other men put down another shilling, and said, "Is that a good one?" and she found that to be bad, and broke it up—I saw the pieces of the last broken shilling—I told the prisoner and his companions to go out, and they went away—I gave the pieces of the shilling to the policeman.
Prisoner. I was not in the house that day. Witness. Yes, you are the man—it was about 8 o'clock in the evening.
SARAH JERROME . My husband is a tailor; we live in Oxford-market, and sell tailors' trimmings. On 9th Feb., about 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a d. valentine—there was a shilling lying on the counter—I did not see him put it down, but I took it in my hand, and said, "Whose shilling is this?"—the prisoner said, "It is mine"—I gave him the change—there were two men standing by his side—he went out, and they went out directly after him—I did not like the look of the shilling, but I threw it in the drawer where we keep the other money—there were other shillings there, but I am able to swear to it by the look of it—it was different to any other shilling—it remained in the drawer till my husband came home, which might have been 10 or 11 o'clock—I had not taken any other shilling in the meantime—my husband went to the drawer, and picked out a bad shilling—I looked at all the other shillings in the drawer—I cannot tell how many there were.
bad money taken again; there is a bad shilling"—my wife said, "I know who I took it of—my wife gave it to the officer.
WILLIAM NEWMAN . I keep a public-house, in Old Compton-street. On 9th Feb. the prisoner came there, about 9 o'clock in the evening—there were two short men with him, who were civilians—the prisoner called for half a quartern of gin—I served him, and he gave me a counterfeit shilling—I saw it was counterfeit the moment I took it from the counter—I tried it, and said, "What do you call this?"—he said, "I thought it was good," and threw down 2d. to pay for the gin—I jumped over the counter, and said, "I will have you now; I have had so many tricks played"—I fastened the door—the prisoner began to cry, and said if I did not let him go he should be locked up for being out late—the officer came, and he was given into custody—I did not see where he took the 2d. from.
RICHARD WELLS (policeman, C 172). I took the prisoner at Mr. Newman's—I got this shilling from Mr. Newman—I went to Mr. Gillett's on the Sunday following—I got this other shilling from him, which, is broken.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not in the first house at all; I went for a penny Valentine, and gave a shilling to a girl, and the woman came in and took it; I went to the last witness's house for a glass of gin; I gave the shilling, and he said it was bad; I gave him 2d. to pay, which I had received from another person there.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARK MACER . I keep a coffee-house, at Tottenham. On 24th Jan. the prisoner came, about 9 o'clock in the evening—he had two cups of coffee, and some bread and butter, which came to 3d.—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 9d. change—the shilling jinked very well, but it bent, and I put it into my purse, where I had no other money—the prisoner sat in my house for two hours—I did not say anything to him before he went away—on 30th Jan. I saw him again, about 11 o'clock at night—he asked for a cup of coffee, which I served him with—he had a shilling and a 2d. piece in his hand—he asked which I would have—I said I was not particular, and he then said, "Take the shilling"—I took it, put it into my mouth, and bent it double—I accused him of that, and of the time before, and fetched the book, and showed him when I took it—I had put down the day—he wanted me to give him the two shillings again—I told him I would not; I would have him locked up—I sent for an officer—he made his way to the door, and he went away—I found two officers—I gave one of them the two shillings which I had received.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Were there many persons at your place on the 24th? A. Yes, five or six, taking coffee and bread and butter; I did not know at that time where the prisoner lived—his father lives about 200 yards from where I live—his father carries oranges—I directed the officer to go to the prisoner's house, because I inquired where he lived; the potman at the wagon office directed me where to go—I know it was the 24th that the prisoner came, because there was music in my house, and the
prisoner wanted a man to play who was there with an accordion—the shilling I took of the prisoner was the only one I took that night—I did not speak to him about the shilling when I found it was bad; I thought I would wait till I saw whether he would come again—I did not at that time take any means of ascertaining where he lived—I knew he lived in the neighbourhood—he had been in my house several times before.
JAMES HARRINGTON (police sergeant, N 29). I produce two counterfeit shillings, which I got from the last witness on 30th Jan. I took the prisoner at his father's house, about 200 yards from the coffee shop—I found on him a silver 2d. piece, an East Indian coin.
Cross-examined. Q. Was he in bed? A. His father said he was in bed; he was up stairs.
GUILTY of uttering the last shilling. Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
MR. CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN HAYDON . My husband keeps a beer shop, in Cleveland-street, Mile-end. On 23rd Jan., the prisoner came between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening for half a pint of 4d. ale—he gave me a counterfeit sixpence; I gave him change, and he went away—I put the sixpence in the till, where there were three shillings, but no other sixpence—soon afterwards I gave the same sixpence to Shadwell, in change for a shilling—she brought it back soon after; it was bad—I took it, and gave her a good one out of my purse—I wrapped the other in a piece of paper, and put it in my pocket—on 3rd Feb. the prisoner came again, about 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening, and had a pint of 4d. ale; I knew him again—he gave me a sixpence—I found it was bad directly—I gave it to my husband, after biting it and bending it double—I told the prisoner I took a bad sixpence of him before; he said he had never been there before—my husband went for a constable—the prisoner ran out, but they pursued and took him—I gave the two sixpences to my husband; he said he gave them to the officer, but I did not see him give them—I had put a mark on them—I bit the one that Shadwell brought back, and the other I bent nearly double—my husband is not here—I should be able to identify the sixpences again—this is the one I took first, and this is the other; it has a cross on it, and here are the marks on it that I made.
SARAH SHADWELL . On the evening of 23rd Jan., I went to the last witness's shop, and received from her a sixpence—I took it to Mr. Brooks to get a loaf;. he said it was a bad one—I did not lose sight of it—he gave it back to me—I took it to Mrs. Haydon, and got a good one for it.
CHARLES PATTEN (policeman, K 137). I took the prisoner, on 3rd Feb. After I had been to the station, I went to Mrs. Haydon's shop—I received one of these sixpences from Mr. Haydon, and one from Mrs. Haydon—the prisoner gave his address in Tower-street; I went, and there was no such place to be found—I found on him a good sixpence.
COURT to MARY ANN HAYDON. Q. You said you gave both the sixpences to your husband? A. I could not call it to my mind at first, but the one that I first took I did not give my husband, I gave it to the policeman.
Prisoner's Defence. I was never in the house before; I received the second sixpence from a gentleman, for carrying a parcel; the reason I ran away was, there were two men in the house threatening to fight me.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
PAUL FRANCIS BARROW . I assist in a coffee shop. On 26th Jan. the prisoner came between 10 and 11 o'clock in the forenoon—he called for a cup of coffee and two slices of bread and butter—I served him—he gave me a half crown—I thought it was good—I took it to the landlady, and threw it on the table—she gave me the change—I gave it to the prisoner, and he walked out.
EMMA WEAVER . My father keeps a coffee shop, in George-street. The prisoner came on 26th Jan., for some coffee and bread and butter, in the afternoon—he gave me a half crown—I had not change, and I went to Mrs. Childs—she told me it was bad—I brought it back, and gave it to the prisoner—he said he did not know it, and he gave me a penny—that did not pay for what he had had, and I took some of the coffee back again, and he left the shop—on the next day he came again, about the same time in the afternoon, just as it was getting dusk—I knew him again—he asked for a cup of coffee, and gave me a shilling—I bent it, and took it to my mother—she gave it to my father, and the prisoner was taken into custody.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me in the morning of 26th Jan.? A. No, not in the morning.
Prisoner. I was not there in the afternoon.
JANE WEAVER . I am the mother of the last witness. On Thursday, 26th Jan., Barrow brought me a counterfeit half crown—I gave it to the policeman—on the next day I received a shilling from my daughter—she bent it, and gave it me—I gave it to my husband.
ELIZA DELVER . My father keeps a baker's shop, in Cannon-street. On 26th Jan. the prisoner came about five or ten minutes after 4 o'clock in the afternoon—I served him with a 2d. loaf—he gave me a half crown—I told him it was bad, and chopped it with a knife—he asked me to give it him back—I refused to do so, and he said he would fetch a constable, and the person he took it of—my brother-in-law came in the shop, and the prisoner went away—I kept the half crown till I gave it to the policeman, on the Tuesday evening.
Prisoner. I was never in the shop in my life.
COURT. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. I never recollect seeing him before—I did not see him afterwards till I went to Arbour-square, on the Tuesday following.
Prisoner's Defence. On the day I passed the shilling, it was out of my sight a quarter of an hour.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
MARGARET GOODYER . I am barmaid at the Royal Standard, in Drury-lane. On Tuesday, 17th Jan., I was serving there, and the prisoner Sirley came in, about a quarter before 6 o'clock—he had a little stone bottle with him, and I served him half a quartern of gin in the bottle—it came to 2d.—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 10d. change, and put the shilling into the till—there was another shilling in the till—I remained serving till the constable came in—no one had been to the till in the mean time—I did not put another shilling in—I saw Mr. Walters take a shilling out of the till—I had not taken any shilling out.
WILLIAM WALTERS . I keep the Royal Standard. On Tuesday evening, 17th Jan., the constable came, about a quarter before 7 o'clock; he showed me a bad shilling—I looked in my till, and found two shillings there; I examined them, one was good, the other bad; I marked the bad one and gave it to the officer.
ELIZABETH HUNT . I am barmaid at the White Hart, in Catharine-street, Strand. On 17th Jan., I saw the prisoner Sirley a little before 6 o'clock in the evening—he brought a stone bottle, and asked for half a quartern of gin; I put the gin in the bottle—he gave me a shilling, and I gave him change, and put the shilling in the till—Mr. Pearson was in the bar at the time—he was near the till when I put the shilling in—it remained in but a very few minutes; Mr. Pearson then took the shilling out of the till—he told me it was bad—Sirley had then left the shop—the three prisoners were afterwards brought in the house together—I had looked in the till when I put the shilling in—there were several sixpences, and one other shilling—this shilling was on one side of the till, and the other on the other side—I had looked at the shilling that was in the till before—it was not at all like the one I took of the prisoner—that was a new one—the one I took of the prisoner was rather old.
Cross-examined by MR. GEARY. Q. Did you see either of the other prisoners with Sirley when he came in? A. No; our till is a drawer in the counter—Mr. Pearson was near the counter.
JOHN PEARSON . I was at the White Hart, on the evening of 17th Jan.; I saw Sirley come in with a stone bottle—I saw him give the last witness a shilling—she put it in the till—I took it out immediately—I saw it while it was in the till; I did not lose sight of it—I went out and saw the three prisoners outside walking together—I stopped them and they were brought back—I asked Sirley for the change—he gave me 4d., and Prendergast the sixpence—Sirley said he had given the sixpence to Prendergast—a constable was sent for, and they were given into custody.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoners before? A. I know Prendergast by sight, he lives in the same neighbourhood—when I went up to them I took hold of Prendergast, and Hudson and Walters took hold of Sirley.
JAMES WALTERS . On the evening of 17th Jan., I was in Drury-lane, about 6 o'clock—I saw the prisoners there together, I saw Prendergast shove Sirley; he said, "Go on"—Sirley went into Mr. Walters' public house, the Royal Standard; he had a stone bottle with him—he came out with it, came up Drury-lane, and joined the other two prisoners—they had remained there while Sirley went in the Royal Standard—when he joined them again they went along Russell street, Drury-lane; I saw Sirley give Prendergast something in his hand; and Prendergast and Hudson drank the contents of the bottle—they all went to Catharine-street, and Sirley went into the White
Hart—I saw him come out and join the other two prisoners again; I made a communication to Mr. Pearson, and they were taken into custody.
Cross-examined. Q. How near were you to the prisoners when you first saw them? A. Close to them—the first thing I noticed was the bottle in Sirley's hand, and Prendergast said to him, "Go on."
JAMES BROWN (policeman, F 142). I was called to the White Hart, on the evening of 17th Jan.; the three prisoners were there, they were charged by Mr. Pearson with uttering counterfeit money, and he gave me this shilling—I took them to the station—Sirley there said, in presence of the others, that Prendergast gave him the shilling; Prendergast said he got it from Hudson—Hudson said he knew nothing about it—Prendergast said he lived at No. 20, New Church-court, Strand; I went there about half an hour afterwards—I found his sister there when I went, and his brother came in a short time afterwards—I searched the room, and found thirty-eight half crowns, twenty-one florins, and forty shillings—Prendergast's brother was taken into custody, and was discharged—he is older than Prendergast—I afterwards went to the Royal Standard, and received this shilling from Mr. Walters.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These two shillings that were uttered are bad, and from one mould—these other shillings are bad, and amongst them are three from the same mould as the two that were uttered—this other money is bad; the florins are all from one mould—the half crowns are from two moulds.
(Mrs. Wright, a chimney sweeper;—Beaufoy, a boot maker; and—Judd, a chandler, gave Prendergast a good character.)
SIRLEY— GUILTY .—Aged 13.
PRENDERGAST— GUILTY .—Aged 15.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Judgment respited.
HUDSON— NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a detective officer of the City police. On 14th Feb., I was in Oxford-street—I saw the two prisoners in conversation together, near the shop of Mrs. Gower—Jones went in the shop, and Beard remained outside, near the shop door—before Jones went in the shop, Beard went to the shop door and looked in; he then went close to Jones, who was a few yards off, and appeared to give him something—Jones then went in the shop, and when he came out, Beard was a few yards from the door—I went in the shop and got this sixpence, and when I came out they were walking together along Oxford-street, about fifty or sixty yards from the shop; I followed them, and saw Jones and Beard both occasionally looking in shops as they passed, and Beard opened the doors of several public houses and looked in—they walked on sometimes together, and sometimes apart—they went on to the St. Alban's Hotel, in Charles-street; Beard went to the door, opened it, and looked in—he then turned round, looked towards Jones, and raised his hat—Jones was a few yards from the door—he then came forwards, and went into the public house, and Beard walked across the street towards the Opera Colonnade—I went into the hotel while Jones was there; he was being served with some gin—I saw him put down a sixpence; I said to Mrs. Smith, "I think you will find that is a bad sixpence;" she took it up and put it to her mouth, and bent it, and gave it me directly; this is it
—Jones was then taken in charge—I left him there, and I went out and saw Beard standing between two columns; I took him into custody, and told him I charged him with being concerned with another in passing bad money—I found on him 6s. 10d. in silver and copper, and on Jones, 3s. 6d. in silver—I took them both to the station—all the money found on them was good—Jones gave his address at No. 12, Albert-street, Stepney; I went there, but no such person was known—Beard gave his address in Green-street, Hammersmith; I went, and there is no Green-street there.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Was not what Beard said, that it was at Hammersmith, just before you come to Turnham green? A. No; he said Green-street, Hammersmith—he did not tell me who kept the house—it was a little before 3 o'clock when I first saw the prisoners together—during the time I saw them, Beard was not in a public house for half an hour; he was in one for about five minutes; not with a butcher, but with a man dressed like a horse dealer—I do not know whether Beard has been a horse dealer—it is about a mile from Mrs. Grower's house to St. Alban's Hotel—the public house that Beard went into, is at the corner of some street in Oxford-street; I believe it is Portman-street—Jones was waiting outside.
MR. CLERK. Q. Did you go into the public house in which Beard went while he was there? A. Yes; I came out before he did, and when I turned round the prisoners were together.
ELIZABETH NORTH LEVITT . I am assistant to Mrs. Gower, in Oxford-street. On 14th Feb., Jones came in the house for 6d. worth of postage stamps; I gave him them, and he gave me a sixpence, and left the shop—almost directly afterwards, the last witness came in, while I was looking at the sixpence—I did not give him the sixpence then, but I marked it, and soon afterwards he called again, and I gave it him—after I had marked it, I put it aside, and when he called, I gave it him.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen Jones before? A. Not that I know of—he had hardly got out of the shop, before I found the sixpence was bad—I showed it to a companion in the shop with me.
FANNY PHILPOTT . I am barmaid, at St. Alban's Hotel. On 14th Feb., Jones came and asked for 2d. worth of gin; I served him, and he put down a bad sixpence—the officer came in at that moment and told me it was bad, and Jones was taken into custody—my mistress was there.
Cross-examined. Q. How was it you did not go before the Magistrate? A. My mistress went; I did not—my mistress took the sixpence; I did not—my mistress came in the bar after I served Jones—the sixpence laid on the counter, and she took it up—there were other persons in the bar; I do not know how many—the sixpence was not handed about from one to another—it was not shown to several persons there—Mrs. Smith took it up, put it in her apron, and wiped it, and bit it.
LOUSIA SMITH . I keep the St. Alban's Hotel, in Charles-street, St. James's. On 14th Feb., my attention was called to Jones, who was having some gin—there was a sixpence lying before him, on the side of the glass; the officer called my attention to it—I tried it; it was bad—I bent it, and marked it, and gave it to Haydon.
Cross-examined. Q. Was the sixpence handed about to the persons there to look at it? A. No; I will swear that—I had it, and it was given to the officer—it was not shown to different persons to look at.
Jones's Defence. I deny having 6d. worth of stamps; I had one, and she handed the sixpence to the young woman next her, and said, "Is that good?" and she said, "Yes; good enough;" she put it in the till, and gave me five penny pieces; I went on and had this gin; I had put the one stamp on a letter; I had no more.
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, March 1st, 1854.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. FAREBROTHER; Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., Ald.; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Lord Chief Baron Pollock and the Third Jury.
380. WILLIAM ANDERSON was indicted for feloniously forging a bill of exchange for the payment of 2,480l., with intent to defraud.—2nd COUNT, for uttering the same.—Other COUNTS, for forging and uttering an acceptance and endorsement to the said bill.
MESSRS. HUDDLESTON and VALLINGS conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS RYDER . I am a merchant and commission agent, and carry on business in Old Broad-street. I had dealings with the prisoner previous to the month of Dec. last—he placed goods in my hands for sale, for which I have accounted—on 17th or 19th Dec. he called upon me, and inquired if my friend Mr. Freese would discount a bill for 2,000l., at six months' sight, on Messrs. Van Notten—he did not leave the bill then—I saw him again on the same afternoon (19th Dec), I think about 3 o'clock—he called to inquire if Mr. Freese could discount the hill of 2,000l.—I said, "Yes, Mr. Freese could do it"—I next saw the prisoner at 25 or 20 minutes to 1 o'clock on Tuesday; I cannot exactly recollect the time; it was a little before I—that was on the 20th—he said he had been to Mr. Freese's office, and made an appointment to be there at half-past 1 o'clock, and asked me to accompany him there, as he wished to buy a bill on France—I accompanied him towards Mr. Freese's office, and we met Mr. Freese by the Mansion House—I told Mr. Freese that the prisoner wished to buy a bill on France—Mr. Freese said, "Come back in a quarter of an hour"—just as Mr. Freese left, the prisoner said, "But I want 1,600l. in cash," and I stopped Mr. Freese, and told him that the prisoner required 1,600l. in cash, in order to buy a bank post bill—Mr. Freese then left—the prisoner and myself walked towards Lombard-street, and during the walk he said that Mr. Freese could deduct the cost of the French bill from the balance of the 2,480l. bill—the prisoner and myself then parted—at 2 o'clock I went back to Mr. Freese's office—I saw the prisoner, after we left, turning into Williams and Deacon's, banking house, but did not speak to him then—I saw him again at half past 3—he came accompanied by Mr. Freese and two other parties, one of whom was Forrester, and the other Mr. Clark—Mr. Freese inquired for 1,000l., I said there was no 1,000l. there—the prisoner came forward, and stated that he had given instructions for l,000l. to be left at my office, and that when it did come I was to hold it at Mr. Freese's disposal, which I said I would—the prisoner then said to Mr. Freese, "Let us go to my office; perhaps we shall find the money there"—they then left—I saw no more of the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS. Q. How long have you had transactions with the prisoner? A. Since the month of April, when
he was introduced to me by Mr. Tidkins, of the firm of Tidkins and Butcher, and recommended as a highly respectable person, and whose letters of recommendation I hold in my hand—they are brokers—I had a first rate introduction with him, as a highly respectable, industrious, and clever man of business, highly esteemed by Messrs. Van Notten—I should have had no hesitation in entering into any mercantile transaction with him—if he had given me his own bill upon a first rate house, of course I should not have objected—I have not had any transactions with the house of Van Notten—I never saw the bill in question; I had nothing to do with it in any way—the 1,000l. that was spoken of, I heard was paid to Messrs. Van Notten in exchange for a warrant—I had several transactions with the prisoner after he was introduced to me, to a considerable extent—they were mercantile transactions, in reference to produce, rice, and that kind of goods—the first transaction we had was, he gave me a consignment of cochineal to New York, upon which I gave him an advance—that was in the month of April—that was not a large operation; it was about 1,600l.—it was cochineal consigned from the port of London to New York—it was not warehoused—he gave me bills of lading—the cochineal was to arrive, and to be sold in New York, and the produce to be accounted for—no bills of exchange passed in that transaction; I gave him money—the transaction about the rice was in Nov. last—I had several parcels—he gave me, at different times, about 8,000 bags of rice, and I gave him an advance upon them, and sold them—that rice had come from Montmeuil and Bengal—no bills of exchange passed then; it was cash—I gave him advances of money.
Q. Do you know whether that rice was drawn upon by the consignor? A. I know nothing, except that I gave him money for the rice—they were warrants, not bills of lading; he gave me warrants—they were goods in port—I cannot tell the amount of those transactions; I should think from 6,000l. to 10,000l.—the other transactions were not connected with Indian produce—there was a purchase made of raisins from Smyrna, and from indirect imports by way of the continent—that was as much as 8,000l. or 10,000l., in addition to the other—I was not concerned in the currant speculations at all—on these transactions I always made him advances in money—I do not know whether the consignors had drawn upon him or Van Nottens—the transaction in Nov. was not the last I had with him previous to his applying to me about discounting this bill—the last was about the middle of Dec, as far as I can recollect—there was no transaction between the Indian rice, and the application about the bill—I had got one bill discounted for him before; that was in the beginning of Dec.—I do not know Van Notten's house from having transactions with them.
CHARLES JOHN AUSTIN . I am clerk to Mr. Ryder, of No. 76, Old Broad-street. On 20th Dec. last the prisoner gave me this bill at Mr. Ryder's office (looking at it)—he directed me to take it to Mr. Freese, to get discounted, and asked me to let him have the money before 12 o'clock—I saw him endorse the bill—I took it to Mr. Freese's office, and gave it to his clerk, Green.
EMANUEL GREEN . I am clerk to Mr. Freese, of No. 16, George-street, Mansion House. On 20th Dec. Austin left this bill with me at our office for discount—I took the particulars, and gave it to Mr. Freese—about ten minutes after I had received the bill the prisoner called—he asked me if I could give him bank notes for the bill instead of a crossed check—he mentioned that he should require a bill upon France for 600l.—I told Mr. Freese, when I saw him, what had passed, and he saw the prisoner—I kept the bill
for an hour or two, and then gave it to Mr. Freese—he went away, and after he returned I received a check from him for 2,000l.—I took it to Barclay's, and cashed it—on my return I found the prisoner at our office—I gave him 1,600l. of it, and 400l. I gave back to Over end and Gurney's, the drawers of the check—the 1,600l. I gave the prisoner consisted of a 1,000l. note, a 500l. note, and 100l. note—Mr. Freese did not buy the bill.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Did he get a bill on Havre.? A. No; the prisoner wanted one (or 600l.—Mr. Freese was to buy it, but he did not get it—the prisoner did not say that he wished it for the convenience of his transactions—he said nothing about that at all, he wanted a French bill; what for I do not know—I heard him say he wanted a bill for 600l. on France; I will not be sure of the place—he did not say that he had some transaction for which it would be convenient to have a bill on France.
PHILIP CONRAD FREESE . I am an exchange, discount, and insurance broker, carrying on business at No. 16, George-street, Mansion House. Previous to 20th Dec. I had a communication from Mr. Ryder, with reference to a bill of exchange, of about this amount, to be discounted for the prisoner—on 20th Dec. I received from my clerk, Mr. Green, a bill for 2,480l.—this produced is it—I took that bill to Messrs. Over end, Gurney, and Co.—on my way there I met Mr. Ryder and the prisoner—he then gave me instructions to get 1,600l. in cash—I got the bill discounted at Messrs. Over end, Gurney, and Co.'s—I got a check for 2,000l. on account—I gave it to my clerk to get cashed on purpose that I might give the 1,600l. cash to Anderson—my clerk gave him the 1,600l. in my presence—before that, while my clerk was gone to cash the check, the prisoner and I had a conversation with reference to a bill for 600l. on Havre or Paris—it was arranged that I should send the balance of the money to Mr. Ryder—about 3 o'clock the same day I received some information from Messrs. Over end and Gurney with respect to the bill, in consequence of which I went to Mr. Chapman, the managing partner at Overend and Gurney's—he told me that I should find the prisoner at Messrs. Womersley and Burt's offices, in Clement-lane—I went there, and found the prisoner in custody of Forrester, the officer—I demanded of him the 1,600l. that I had given him—he said that I should most likely find it at No. 76, Old Broad-street, which is the counting house of Mr. Ryder—I merely asked the prisoner for the money that he had received from me—I did not say why I asked for it—I had been instructed by Mr. Chapman to ask for it, and therefore I demanded it—Mr. Chapman had told me it was a forgery when I saw him at his office—I went to Mr. Ryder's—the prisoner went with me and Forrester, and another person with Forrester—I did not find the money there—upon that, the prisoner said that most likely it must be in Billiter-street, which was his counting house—we went to Billiter-street—I went up stairs with the prisoner, Forrester, and the other person, and the prisoner decamped down another staircase, Forrester in pursuit—he went through some counting house, and down another staircase—Forrester followed him—I also followed—the other staircase led into Billiter-street and into Fenchurch-street—I overtook him in two or three minutes—he ran away, and there was a cry of "Stop thief!" and when I came up with him he was in the cab with Forrester—I went with them in the cab to the Mansion House, and there he was searched—600l. was found upon his person, besides other documents.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You did not search him yourself, did you? A. No, I saw him searched—I was present when Mr. Anderson said that he was very anxious to see Messrs. Van Notten, to go to the acceptors
of the bill—I believe he said that if he saw Messrs. Van Notten it would be all right, or words to that effect—that was declined—I believe he repeatedly requested that he might be permitted to see Messrs. Van Notten, the acceptors of the bill, and it would be all right—he appeared to be anxious to see Messrs. Van Notten about it—there was a genuine anxiety to see them on the subject—I cannot say that I know Messrs. Van Notten—I had seen Mr. Anderson before; I had had transactions in business with him, through the introduction of Mr. Ryder; I had not fulfilled any transactions—Mr. Ryder had some previous conversation with me about a bill of about that amount, whether I could get it discounted, before I received the bill—I had no knowledge previously of Mr. Anderson's being concerned in large transactions with Messrs. Van Notten—I only got a knowledge of that kind subsequently to this transaction.
Q. I suppose it is useless for me to ask you, were you aware that Mr. Anderson was virtually in partnership with Messrs. Van Notten in many mercantile transactions? A. Not at that time.
COURT. Q. You knew nothing about it? A. Nothing.
MR. PARRY. Q. You went to his office, I think you say, in Billiter-street? A. Yes—Messrs. Van Notten's offices are in Lime-street-square; that is very near Billiter-street—he could have got to Messrs. Van Notten's in a very short time from where he was, or to Messrs. Gurney's—Messrs. Gurney's offices are in Lombard-street—I afterwards understood that 1,000l. which he obtained for this bill, was paid or given to Messrs. Van Notten—I did not trace it myself, I believe Mr. Chapman did.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You say he appeared to be anxious to see Messrs. Van Notten? A. Yes; that was before he ran away.
DAVID BARCLAY CHAPMAN . I am one of the firm of Overend, Gurney, and Co., of Lombard-street, money dealers. On 20th Dec. last, I received this bill of exchange for 2,480l. from Mr. Freese to be discounted, I gave him a check for 2,000l. on account—(bill read: "Calcutta, 4th Oct, 1853. Exchange for 2,480l. at six months after date, pay this my first of exchange, second and third unpaid, to the order of Mr. J. Dupont, the sum of 2,480l., value in account L and S., which place to account as advised." Signed "J. Le Brun." Addressed to "Messrs. P. and C. Van Notten and Co., London. Accepted for 2,480l. Payable when due, at Messrs. Marten and Co. P. and C. Van Notten and Co. Endorsed, Pay to the order of Mr. W. B. Anderson; value on account Paris, 13th Dec, 1853. Jacq. Dupont; William Anderson.")—I had previously received a bill of 3,050l., from Messrs. Womersley and Burt—we discounted that bill for them on the Saturday previous, I think the 20th was Tuesday—our house also discounted this bill for 2,250l. (looking at it) on 20th Dec.—I know we got the bill—I gave the money for it—the bill for 2,480l. was with myself personally—the bill for 3,050l. was taken on the Saturday previous by my house, I being out of town—the bill for 2,250l. was with me personally—I received it I should say between 11 and 12 o'clock in the day, from Mr. Womersley, Mr. Freese having previously left the bill for 2,480l.—my suspicions were immediately excited—I made a communication on the subject to Mr. Womersley, he left the bill with me and left the house—upon this, seeing this second bill offered by a second broker, it seemed so extraordinary, I made a communication to Messrs. Van Notten, and in consequence of what I heard from them I took other steps—the first step I took was to stop the check at the bankers, to prevent its being changed for bank notes—the next was to send to Mr. Freese to acquaint him with the circumstance,
and the next was to send to Forrester, the officer, to endeavour to apprehend the last endorser—Mr. Womersley came back and I acquainted him with what I had ascertained, namely that his bill was a forgery—I very soon afterwards went to his office—I there found Mr. Womersley and his partner Mr. Burt, the prisoner, Mr. Freese I think was there also, and Forrester—I cannot speak as to what was said, for I was not in the same room—I saw the prisoner sitting down in the room, but I heard nothing said to him, nor did I hear him say anything.
Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did you succeed in tracing out 1,000l. that had been advanced upon the bill by way of discount on one of the bills? A. Perhaps I had better explain what I did advance—the best answer I can give is this, that we succeeded in tracing the whole of the notes—the first thing we did was to send to the Bank, to know whether those numbers had been come to.
Q. I do not ask your mode of doing it, did you trace them to Van Notten's? A. 1,000l. no doubt went to Van Notten's; but that is a step which I cannot answer—as far as we are concerned, we gave Freese a check for 2,000l. on account of this bill, which he changed and gave the prisoner as I understand 1,600l. on account; I sent afterwards to the Bank to stop those notes, and eventually found that 1,000l. had been paid (this is only hearsay) to P. and C. Van Notten and Co., by the prisoner—I know Van Notten's very well—the firm consists of Mr. Charles Pole, and Mr. Lambert Pole—I suppose Mr. Charles Pole is the senior partner, he is the eldest brother and I suppose he stands first—I have known them many years—I have had very many transactions with them—very few in the way of discounting bills, it has been chiefly depositing money with us at interest, to make use of when they like, to draw it when they please—that was the chief nature of our transactions with them—we are bankers as well as bill brokers—I did not know Anderson—I believe Van Nottens have two places of business—I really do not know where they are—you will think I do not answer straightforward, but I really do not know—I seldom leave our own house; I have reason to think they have one house somewhere about Billiter-street or that direction, and another house in Token-house-yard—we have acted for them in money transactions generally, but banking has been the chief nature of our account with them—their accounts with us have been to a considerable amount—bills were never paid into our house, it was only cash that was lodged with us—we answer their checks—you will understand if you please that I give you the general character of our transactions with the house, that being the prominent feature, but we have had other transactions; we have lent them money occasionally, and we have occasionally discounted bills for them, but the chief feature has been depositing money with us, perhaps occasionally discounting bills for them—we have very rarely indeed discounted foreign bills for them, that has not been a feature of our account together—we have sometimes discounted foreign bills, very likely as high as 10,000l., but that is not of any importance in our commercial transactions—I should doubt very much whether we have taken so large an amount with them.
Q. You say you do not know Anderson; can you venture to say that on many occasions you have not discounted bills for them upon which Anderson's name was on the back, as endorser? A. I am not aware of a single transaction of that kind—I should think it extremely extraordinary if such a thing had taken place—I should say certainly not—the bills we have discounted for them have had their own endorsement—they have been the
last endorsers; it would be a most unnatural thing if it were not so—I should say we have not discounted a bill for them where Anderson's name has appeared as the previous endorser—I certainly can say that I did not know that Anderson was mixed up in very large mercantile transactions with them, for I never heard of the man's name before I saw these bills, and that is very easily proved—will you allow me to explain? when Mr. Freese brought me this bill, which was the cause of the discovery of the forgery, I would not take it because of its amount without Mr. Freese's assurance—I asked him who this Mr. Anderson was—he assured me, three times over, that Mr. Anderson was a person of the highest respectability, and had been well introduced to him, and upon that I consented to discount the bill; otherwise I am not aware that I ever heard of Mr. Anderson's name before—I have not since this affair occurred looked through the account to see the extent to which we have discounted for Van Notten's—I should doubt very much whether we have a single bill running on discount—I may just say, in answer to your inquiry (and mercantile persons will easily understand what I say), that the transactions of our house are so exceedingly numerous and large, that it would be perfectly impossible for us to look to the previous endorser—if a house of Van Notten's respectability and credit bring us bills I should pass them without looking at the endorsement at all, therefore I tell you candidly. I have not looked at any endorsement preceding Van Notten's—I should not look at the prior endorsement because I should take it on the respectability of Van Notten's—we have discounted Van Notten's acceptances on foreign bills—we have discounted two or three of their acceptances; that has been a very remote and very occasional thing indeed—that has been direct from them—we have also discounted some of their acceptances through bill brokers, foreign bills—I believe there is no Van Notten actually in the business—Mr. Charles Van Notten Pole is the senior partner—he transacts business with us, and his brother also—I am not acquainted with Mr. Hill—I have seen Mr. Lambert Pole to-day—I have not seen Mr. Charles Pole almost since this has taken place—I have not seen him here to-day—I cannot tell you who used to draw the checks—I should presume either of the brothers.
Q. Did you ever look at the endorsement when you discounted the acceptance of Van Notten and Co, or did you simply act upon their acceptance? A. Simply upon their acceptance, and I shall be very happy to do so again—I mean to say we should take the bills simply upon the credit of the acceptor.
THOMAS SCURR WOMERSLEY . I am a bill broker, carrying on business in Lombard-street Chambers, Clement's-lane, with Mr. Burt. On 17th Dec. last year, the prisoner brought me this bill for 3,050l.—I got it discounted at Messrs. Overend and Gurney's, and gave the proceeds to the prisoner—(The bill was here read; it was precisely in the same form as the previous one)—on 20th Dec. he brought me this other bill for 2,250l.—he brought it about half-past 11 o'clock in the day, to get discounted—(this was a bill in the same form as the other two)—I took that bill to Messrs. Overend and Gurney's to get discounted about half an hour after the prisoner brought it to me—I there saw Mr. Chapman—some communication took place between myself and Mr. Chapman, upon which I left the bill with him, and went back to my office—I afterwards saw the prisoner; I asked him what the bills were for—he said that Dupont, of Paris, sent him orders to buy tartaric acid, iodine, and other things, and remitted him those bills in payment—I was then coiner back to Messrs. Overend and
Gurney's, to tell Mr. Chapman, when Mr. Chapman, Jun., and Mr. Pelly came into my office—they told me something—Forrester came in immediately afterwards, and I then went with Forrester into my inner office, and said to the prisoner, "I am very sorry, Mr. Anderson, to be obliged to give you in charge for forgery"—he said, "What! I do not understand what you mean; I will soon satisfy you that that is not the case if you will go on with me to Messrs. Van Notten and Co."—I said it was useless doing so, as they had seen the signature, and denied its being their acceptance—Mr. Freese came in afterwards, and the prisoner, Mr. Freese, and Forrester went away—the 2,250l. bill was given to Forrester—it was never discounted I have seen the prisoner write—(looking at the three bills) I should say the endorsements "W. B. Anderson" upon these three bills are all in the handwriting of the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. He seemed very eager to see Van Notten's, did not he? A. Very; he expressed great anxiety to see them; he particularly wished to go on to see them—I believe after he was in custody he wished to send for them—I cannot recollect that he repeatedly insisted that the matter would be explained if he could see them—I do not know that he said, "It would be all right if I were to see Van Notten's"—I do not remember that.
Q. Did you know that Mr. Anderson was engaged in dealing in tartaric acid and matters of that sort? A. I did not know it up to the time of his bringing these bills—I am now aware of it.
COURT. Q. What do you mean by saying, you are now aware of it? A. Up to the time that the prisoner brought me the bills, when I asked him what the bills were for, I did not know that he dealt in those articles; I do know it now—he told me at that time; I did not know it prior to that.
MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. But you know it from other sources? A. Yes, I have since heard; I now know that he has dealt extensively in drugs groceries, tartaric acid, and other things of that sort.
COURT. Q. What do you mean by that? do you mean to say that you know anything about it, or that you have only heard about it? A. Only from hearsay.
MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. You know that the prisoner has since become a bankrupt, has he not? A. Yes; I had no dealings with him, either in iodine or tartaric acid, so as to prove a debt against him—I was present before the Court of Bankruptcy.
COURT. Q. Have you had any dealings with him yourself? A. No; I have had other transactions with him in bills.
MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Have they been transactions in bills connected apparently with trading in cochineal, tartaric acid, or matters of that sort? A. Yes, I think so; I do not know as to raisins.
COURT. Q. Have you ever had any dealings with him in tartaric acid at all? A. No; I think the bills led me to believe that they were for goods of that description, sold by the parties by whom they were accepted—some of them were upon Odans, Pickford, and Keen, persons who trade in those things.
JOHN MITCHELL . I am a cashier, at Messrs. Barclay's, bankers, in Lombard-street. I cashed this check for 2,000l. on 20th Dec. (referring to his book)—I gave for it a 1,000l. note, No. 93425, dated 1st April, 1853; a 500l. note, No. 90972, dated 2nd March, 1853; one for 200l., No. 59733, dated 4th Jan., 1853; another for 200l., No. 59347, dated 4th Jan., 1853; and one for 100l., No. 34924, dated 5th Aug., 1853.
merchants, in Lime-street-square, under the name of P. and C. Van Notten and Co. I have known the prisoner previous to the month of Deo.—I knew him as a merchant, carrying on business in Billiter-street, and also as principal manager to Mr. Major, the Custom-house agent—the acceptance to this bill of exchange for 2,480l. (looking at it) is not in my writing, or that of my partner—it was written without my authority—I never gave any authority whatever for my name to be used; I never gave the prisoner any authority to use my name—I have looked at this part of the acceptance, "Accepted for 2,480l. payable, when due, at Messrs. Martin and Co."—there is a clerk in our firm of the name of Hill; he is one of the principal clerks—it would be his duty to write so much of an acceptance that we are going to accept—that portion to which my attention has been called somewhat resembles his handwriting; portions of the signature, "P. and C. Van Notten and Co.," resemble my handwriting—the signature to the acceptance of this bill for 3,050l. is not mine; it is not the handwriting of my partner—it was not written by my authority—portions of it resemble my writing—the prior part of the acceptance resembles the handwriting of Hill—the acceptance to this bill for 2,250l. is not my handwriting, or my partner's—it was not written by my authority—portions of it resemble my handwriting, and the preceding part resembles the handwriting of our clerk, Mr. Hill—we bank with Messrs. Martin and Co.
Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Look at that 2,250l. bill; who showed you that for the first time? A. I believe that I saw it first at my office; to the best of my belief, it was Mr. Chapman who showed it to me—upon first looking at that bill, I did not say it was all right; I said nothing to that effect—Mr. Chapman did not show me any other bills at the same time—the 2,480l. bill I think I saw at the Mansion House—it was Mr. Chapman, jun., who showed me the 2,250l. bill—I did not say to him, when I first saw it, that it was all right, nor any words to that effect—Mr. Chapman, jun., was with me about five minutes, it may be, I cannot say exactly—nobody besides him was present at the first moment; Mr. Hill came in—I have not examined these bills over and over again; I have not looked at them—I saw them before the Grand Jury—I can hardly say in whose custody they were then—they were put into my hands in the Grand Jury room, who by I cannot say—I do not know that I have ever been asked before to-day about portions resembling my handwriting, not to my recollection—a conversation has passed with my clerk on the subject of the words previous to the signature resembling his writing—I have conversed with Hill upon the subject—that was a day, or two, or three, after the meeting at the Mansion House; it might be before or after Mr. Anderson was committed, I cannot say very positively—my brother Charles is here—I can hardly say how many years I have known Mr. Anderson, eight or ten years, possibly; I cannot speak with certainty—I have done business with him quite as many years, as clerk to Mr. Major; first of all as clerk to Mr. Major, and then we had transactions on our and his account, independent of Mr. Major—I really do not know what his age was when I first knew him—of course, ten years ago he was ten years younger looking—I cannot answer the question whether he appeared quite a young man when I first knew him—I cannot form any opinion what his age was—Mr. Major is a Custom-house agent—Mr. Major used to act for us through his clerk, Mr. Anderson, as our Custom-house agent—the transactions of our house with Anderson on his own account commenced in 1850—they have been large; certainly not some hundreds of thousands of pounds—I have got our books
here—I should say, in round numbers, it was rather above 100,000l.—it may be between 100,000l. and 150,000l., not so high as 200,000l.—in one transaction that we had we shared profits with him—that was among the earliest—that was a transaction of dried fruit—we bought and sold, and gave him half the profits; that was in the autumn of 1852—my brother Charles was not the principal partner carrying on these transactions with Anderson—we have two branches of business; they are in adjoining houses, Nos. 2 and 3, Lime-street-square—it was with No. 3 that Anderson had his transactions—our house carries on various kinds of business—we are general merchants, trading in commodities coming from all parts of the world, and drawn upon—Anderson got us a last number of consignments—bills have been drawn without our having any advice through Anderson—being his own goods, he had the direction of the sale; as a matter of courtesy to him, we gave him the power to advise as to the sale—when goods were shipped to our house upon consignments to his account, and they arrived, we spoke to Mr. Anderson as to the price to be taken for the goods on arrival—the bills would be drawn upon our house—bills were not frequently drawn without our knowing anything of the consignments—in most cases, where there were consignments, advices of drafts accompanied every consignment—there were not many cases where it was not so; there might be a case or two.
Q. Did not he over and over again arrange the whole transaction? A. Under our control; we had a commission of sale upon them—the brokers effected the sale, employed by us, through the instrumentality of Anderson—I am not aware that he always named the brokers—they were our brokers as much as his—one of his brokers was a Mr. Leask—a vast number of these transactions were carried on through his broker, Mr. Leask—Mr. Richard Witherby was another of his brokers—Mr. Witherby was one of our brokers—he was his broker as well as ours—he was introduced to the house by Anderson before he commenced his transactions with us.
Q. Was there a good deal of bill of exchange business between you and Anderson? A. I do not understand the question; we negotiated his bills on Change for him.
Q. When consignments were drawn upon, or foreign bills were drawn, used they to pass into your hands, or continue in his? A. They came into our hands for acceptance—we did not occasionally send him to Hamburgh to draw bills—I do not recollect sending him to Antwerp purposely to draw bills—when he went over to Antwerp he had repeatedly to draw on the house against documents of goods that he was shipping for his own account—the last transaction was in March, 1853—he had been over to Antwerp before, and had drawn upon us.
Q. I believe you never looked for the goods; he himself came and attended to that, did he not? A. As our Custom-house agent, he would enter the goods—Mr. Major was our Custom-house agent; and he being Mr. Major's principal clerk, the business naturally passed into his hands—we had a banking commission—our acceptances were in the shape of advances—I do not know who discounted those bills.
Q. Who used to accept them; your brother or you? A. Whoever happened to be in the way—a banking commission is a per-centage upon the amount drawn, a per-centage according to arrangement; sometimes half per cent., sometimes one per cent.; not more—in most cases the bills were to run three months—the half or one per cent, was the commission—we did not charge him a further commission—that was the commission.
COURT. Q. You mean to say there was no ether commission? A. No, MR. CHAMBERS. Q. These bills that you used to accept were not his; he was not the drawer of them, was he? A. No; they were drawn by foreign houses—it was a very rare thing for him to be the drawer—he had dealings with these foreign houses—we have not bad one of those bills to the amount of 4,000l. or 5,000l., nor 3,000l., certainly not—when we shared profits, they were foreign shipments, from the Continent; some from Hamburgh, some from Antwerp, and many from Rotterdam—they ran over a period between the autumn of 1852 and the middle of 1853; perhaps earlier than that—they did not run down to Nov.; I should say not later than July—I recollect the transaction of the raisins; it was a very large quantity of raisins—the last transaction of raisins belonged, I think, to a French house—that was in Nov. last year—that was 2,500l.—that was drawn upon, I think, on 14th Nov.—to the best of my belief, it was a foreign bill—of course, we have not got it—La Fontaine, of Paris, was the person who drew—it was accepted by me, by the house—it is among our other bills as cancelled bills, as paid bills—we have it; it is in Court—my clerk has the papers—(after the Court had adjourned for some minutes, MR. HUDDLESTON handed three bills to the witness).
COURT. Q. Are those the bills that relate to the transaction of the raisins? A. They are.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. You mention the sum of 2,500l., why, in the month of Nov. last year, was there not 1,860l., 600l., and 840l.? A. Yes, and I dare say 875l. and 763l.—without knowing from whence the bills were drawn, I can hardly say what the transactions of 1,860l. and 600l. were—the 2,500l. was the extent of that one transaction—there were very probably two others in Nov. of 1,860l. and 600l., but, without seeing the bills, I cannot answer anything about them—these three bills are as advances against fruit—I have no doubt I could answer as to the 1,860l. and the 600l., if I had the bills before me—I have not any recollection from my memory—as far as my memory serves me, they were bills drawn from Hamburgh, against fruit, currants, and dried fruit—I never myself saw any of the goods against which the bills were drawn—samples were occasionally sent up—the sales were made to pay our bills, our acceptances—the sales were made on the prisoner's account.
Q. Did you and Mr. Anderson keep accounts against each other? A. We had an account against him; I suppose he kept accounts.
Q. How used you to settle? A. When the bills were matured and were paid he generally provided the funds.
Q. Then, in point of fact, your acceptances were given for his use and accommodation? A. They were acceptances given for goods consigned to us for account to Mr. Anderson.
Q. But he provided the money to pay them when they became due, did not he? A. No; the goods when they were sold, the imports for his account, the goods themselves, paid the bills—we had the accounts of sales sent to us.
Q. And how often used you to balance accounts? A. Oh, we have not balanced accounts—we have not balanced them yet, not finally.
Q. Then the plan, as I understand you, was this, that when the goods were sold, he would send in an account of the sales; was that so? A. The account of sales would come to us.
Q. From him? A. They would come from the broker through him, in all probability—the course of business was to send up the account sales to
the house: in his case they passed through him—I am not aware whether he ticked them off with his initials—the cash concerns with him fell under our head clerk; the commercial transactions were with the two partners, my brother Charles and myself.
COURT. Q. The cash concerns were what? A. The cash concerns passed under the immediate control of our head clerk; the general management of the transactions was with ourselves.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. I do not understand what you mean by the "general management;" you told me that he had the general management of the commercial transactions? A. Under our control—I knew the names and the houses that used to draw upon us—I will swear that I knew the names of all the parties that shipped on his consignment account, because they are many of them our own correspondents, and most of them—there were not many that were not our correspondents; I cannot say how many there were who consigned goods to him, although they drew upon us (looking at some bills handed in by Mr. Huddleston)—the 1,860l. was a Paris transaction; it was an advance against goods; dried fruit, I think—the 600l. was a Paris transaction, and the 840l. 10s. was a Paris transaction—these bills are accepted by my brother Charles; the other three that were produced just now were accepted by me.
Q. From the first of your dealings, as far as you know, with Mr. Anderson on his own account, I believe the course of business was that the invoices of the goods were sent over to him invariably, and not to your house direct? A. No, not invariably; it was not the general course of business that the invoices were sent to him, and not to our house; I think the reverse—it was the general practice for him to agree with the consignor—it was not the general practice that the invoices were sent to him instead of direct to our house; I think the general practice was to send the invoices to our house—the invoices were not sent to him in all the transactions in which Mr. Witherby and Mr. Leask were the brokers; I believe the general rule was that the invoices were sent over at the time of apprising the drafts—I cannot say that that general rule was departed from; my own impression is that it was not—I do not think, when you asked me just now, whether it was not the general rule that the invoices should be sent over to him, that I said, "No, the reverse;" I think you are mistaken; I do not recollect making use of that expression—I do not think that the invoices were almost invariably either sent over to, or submitted to him, to put his initials to them—I have no doubt the invoices are here; all the papers are here—I have not stated that we were frequently called upon to accept bills before we got advices of consignments—I will swear I did not say so half an hour ago.
Q. You did say that you left all in Mr. Anderson's hands? A. Subject to our control.
Q. Since you have been out, have you been talking to anybody? A. No, I have had no conversation about what my evidence was; I have been to relieve nature—I spoke to my own clerk, and desired him to get all the papers and things into the Court immediately—that was Hill.
Q. Did you speak about what you were saying? A. No, very little indeed; I said very little indeed—I might have said I should be very glad when it was over—he said nothing to me—he said nothing about the course of business—I was not talking to Hill two minutes.
Q. Did you talk to anybody else? A. I just spoke to Mr. Tilleard, my solicitor, just for two minutes.
Q. What! is your solicitor here; you are not the prosecutor, are you? A. I suppose I may have my own friends here—I suppose I have got a solicitor here; he is here to watch the case, I have no doubt—I dare say it is for me; I must have somebody here to refer to, to get anything I want, papers and documents.
Q. You said "to watch" for you; what is he watching? A. That I cannot tell you—I have not given him instructions of any kind.
Q. Don't you pay him for coming here? A. I believe most lawyers require payment.
Q. Have you not engaged him to come here to attend to your interest? A. As a matter of course, he would come here without being instructed to come—of course I engaged him to come here to attend to my interests—I am not the prosecutor in this case—I have instructed him to retain counsel.
Q. I was going on to ask you about the ordinary course of business; the goods used to come over; then as to the receiving them, and as to the sale of them, Mr. Anderson conducted all that, did he? A. Under our control—I cannot help putting in those words, I must do it—he was to come to us for directions—we certainly reserved to ourselves a discretion and a judgment as to the rates at which he should sell the goods—there was no necessity to exercise it—he laid before us, as the owners of the goods, his views as to the sales, and if we approved of the prices, we gave him authority to sell—when I say before us, I mean before the house—I think it was chiefly before me—I used to give my judgment as to the purchase and the propriety of the selling—we did not get anything for that beyond our commission upon the advances.
Q. During all the transactions up to, as you say, July, 1852, what share of the profits used you to get, running over all the period you have mentioned, where you shared profits? A. Where we shared profits, we gave him one half, and we took one half—we did not get our commission besides, not for advances—he did not supply money as well as us—we were to supply the means—we were to be the persons to supply the means on all occasions in which we dealt—those means were sometimes by the acceptance of bills at three months; not sometimes at six months, certainly not—I know of no transaction where bills of exchange have been, accepted at as long as six months—the purchases during the time when we shared profits were made on our account; it was agreed that he was to have half—I say the purchases were made on our account, because the transaction was entered into by us; partly through him, and with our brokers—our own broken; we had the selection of the brokers—the amount of the transactions upon which we returned him one half the profit would have reached somewhere about 30,000l., or 33,000l.—it was profitable—that closed the joint account—I have not got the joint account—our accounts are made up, and gone into the estate—he got the consignments, and the purchases in a great measure were through his instrumentality, from the foreign houses—we are general merchants—all the correspondence with the foreign houses did not pass with the prisoner; I should say a great portion of it did—it was not a very rare thing for any of the foreign houses with whom he negotiated for the consignment of goods to write to us; they used to write to us, advising the drafts—we have not yet attempted to prove our accounts at the Bankruptcy Court; they are in the hands of the official assignee—in those transactions in which we were to supply means, I did not represent to the prisoner that we were able to supply to a large amount; certainly not—the prisoner did not supply the money to pay the bills; we paid all the bills; the goods
themselves supplied the money—we advanced money on goods lying in the docks, not upon the invoices—we took a valuation of the goods—we judged of the value of the goods ourselves, and, to a certain extent, from his representations of what they were.
Q. You never advanced cash, did you? you never advanced him a half, penny in solid cash? A. Oh, yes! a great many thousands of pounds—our transactions were not always through acceptances—we did not give acceptances over and over again—sometimes the goods were not sold, we paid the acceptances, and he repaid us, he took the goods—we sometimes charged one commission, and sometimes another—we used not to charge as much as six per cent. when we advanced on goods, and gave acceptances—we have charged six per cent, per annum, and commission also—I cannot say whether we have sometimes received as much as 60l. commission at a time; I should think not, I cannot answer the question without reference to books.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. The books are here? A. The books are here.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Who keeps the books? A. Mr. Hill.
Q. The prisoner always furnished the money to take up the acceptances, did he not, although you supplied it in the first instance? A. We supplied it in the first instance—he very rarely supplied it before the acceptance became due—my clerk, Mr. Hill, generally settled with him about what he was to pay—he will be able to tell you all—we first paid him either money, or if they belonged to his foreign correspondents, they drew upon us at three months date, sometimes at thirty days date.
Q. Do you recollect having a dispute with him a long time ago, when your brother and he were together, about some accommodation bill? A. We never had an accommodation bill—there is a firm of the name of Dewhurst and Co., of Manchester—they are very highly respectable—they are to a certain extent our correspondents—they are still our correspondents—I do recollect that there was some conversation about a Bill of Exchange of theirs—I think it was between Mr. Anderson, my brother, and myself—I have no recollection of coming into the room whilst he was talking to my brother about it; whether I was there first or last I do not know—I cannot say whether it was in May, 1853; it was some time in last year—the conversation bore reference to a bill drawn upon us which we did not believe was in the market—he asserted that it was in the market; it was a bill drawn by Dewhurst upon us at six months—that did not lead at all to a question about our credit, or about its being a bill that ought not to be in the market, because it was of so long a date—I really think my brother may have been the first person he spoke to about it.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You say there was something said about a bill drawn upon you at six months, being in the market? A. Yes; I do not know whether it was in the market or not—I had accepted such a bill—the transactions with the prisoner, with reference to which there was a participation of profit, were upon one description of article.
COURT. Q. One description of article, but a great many separate transactions? A. Just so; those transactions originated with both myself and my brother.
MR. HUDDLESTON Q. Be kind enough to tell us very shortly, what took place with reference to that occurrence? A. In the autumn of 1852, the blight had attacked the dried fruit in the Ionian Islands; Mr. Anderson came to us, and said, "Gentlemen, there is a large business doing in fruit, the market is going up, there is a good deal to be got by it, and there are a great many persons going into the article, and I should recommend your
turning your attention to the article"—we refused, it being Hot our business to speculate generally—we declined it for a long time, but he being very urgent in his recommendation, stating that he had been under great obligation to the house, and that he would wish to have an opportunity of returning it; and as in this instance he could give a good deal of information upon the subject, we were induced to make some purchases in the fruit, he being a man thoroughly conversant with the article; and knowing he had a good deal of knowledge of the article, we availed ourselves of the benefit of his knowledge—he had one half the profits.
COURT. Q. It was not a separate transaction, it was several transactions in the same article? A. Yes; amounting altogether to from 30,000l. to 33,000l., split up into many more than five or six transactions.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. When were they concluded? A. Those transactions concluded, I think, as far as my memory serves me, somewhere about June or July, perhaps, last year—to my knowledge no bills have been accepted in respect of consignments until we have had the warrants, or the bills of lading, in our possession; I speak for myself only.
Q. What was the course of practice, after you had received the bills of lading and the warrants, and given your acceptances, as to giving up the bills of lading or the warrants? A. In the case of the bills of lading, when there were goods consigned to our house, the bills of lading, as a matter of course, were given to Anderson as the clerk of Major, who was our Custom-house agent, to do that which was necessary with regard to the entering of the goods; in the case of the warrants, when the loan on the warrants was repaid, the warrants of course were handed up—the course of business, when the goods were sold, was for the broker to sell the goods, and when the prompt fell due the money to be received—sometimes the goods were sold and paid for before the maturity of the bills, sometimes afterwards—(looking at a letter) I received this letter from the prisoner in reference to the three, bills which have been referred to for 861l. 760l., and 875l. (letter read: "London, 21, Billiter-square; 17th Nov., 1853. Gentlemen,—Herewith, I beg to hand you warrants for 300 barrels of raisins, ex Louisa Henriette, and 102 barrels ditto, ex Haddington, making together 402; against which, with your permission, the following drafts have been made upon yourself, say at three months' date, 14th Nov.: 763l. 5s., 861l. 5s., and 875l. 10s., making together 2,500l. In consideration of your accepting the same, I engage to cover you in the amount thereof before maturity; failing which, you are authorised by the present to effect sales in order to reimburse yourselves. The commission to be charged upon this transaction is 1 per cent, unless a sale is made; and, in that case, the rate to be 2 per cent. I am, gentlemen, your obedient servant, W. B. Anderson.—P. S. It is expressly understood that the goods to which the present refers, are to be withdrawn on or before 19th Jan., 1854; failing which, you are fully empowered to effect sales to cover your acceptances. W. R A.") In consequence of that, we effected sales of those goods.
Q. Did you ever accept bills without security of that description? A. What do you mean by "that description?"
COURT Q. Did you ever accept bills without any security at all? A. To a small amount, I have.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. To what amount? A. I think, in three or four instances together, under 2,000l., in those instances, it was at the request of Anderson—generally speaking, I knew the amount of those bills when I accepted them.
COURT. Q. Did you ever give him a blank acceptance for him to fill up? A. Never.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Look at that letter, dated 13th Dec., and tell me if you received that letter also from the prisoner? A. Yes; I received that letter—it is Mr. Anderson's handwriting (read: "Messrs. P. and C. Van Notten and Co., London, 21, Billiter-square; 13th Dec., 1853. Gentlemen,—In consideration of your handing me proceeds of negotiation of my draft on Pavensaedt and Co., dated 9th instant, and producing 2,878l. 6s. 3d. I beg to hand you herewith bills of lading for 1,000 VB., 199 WB., sheep's wool, value about——l., ex Francis Henry, from Melbourne; which goods, or their proceeds, I authorise you to hold as security until the due payment of the drafts mentioned. I am, gentlemen, your obedient servant, W. B Anderson.") I think, from Antwerp and from Amiens, Mr. Anderson drew upon us altogether about five times—the state of the money market at the time quite justified the charge of 6 per cent.—since the prisoner's committal, I have had a conversation with Mr. Hill, my clerk—I have heard of a conversation that took place between him and Mr. Anderson.
Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Are you the senior partner in the house of Van Notten and Co.? A. I am—we have had numerous transactions with Mr. Anderson; they were not generally arranged with me; sometimes with me and sometimes with my brother—we have two houses of business—our dealings were in merchandize generally, all sorts of articles which could be profitable—very often making advances on goods, and accepting bills—I had confidence to a certain extent in Mr. Anderson—I cannot say I had great confidence, excepting in his honesty, I believed him to be honest—I should think our earliest transactions with him were about 1850—that was not in a joint speculation in goods—it was a loan upon a security, upon a guarantee of a third party—I think the amount of the loan was 500l.—I cannot say that that was with a view of his starting in business for himself; it was to assist him in his business, Mr. Major was the Custom-house agent with whom he was—after that, we from time to time entered into transactions with him with reference to foreign consignments for his account to a considerable amount, our profit was a commission thereon; an advance for a certain time, and bills drawn from the continent against those consignments—I should think the advance was never for so short a time as a couple of days, or three days, I should think more than that—we take our commission just the same, if the advance is only for a day or two—I should say it was generally Mr. Hill that managed that, now and then myself quite as much as Mr. Hill—I imagine Mr. Anderson generally knew the consignors—if it was represented to me that he knew the consignors, then we engaged in the transaction, if we liked it, if it was considered prudent—we had our commission upon the transactions—we did not always find that we made a good thing of it, quite the reverse—we were tired of the thing altogether, as far as the commission went, it was really no very great thing.
Q. Then being tired of the commission you went upon the division of profit system, did you not? A. No; except in one single instance—that was arranged with me, and I think with my brother, and Mr. Hill was also present I think, but I am not quite sure—that was in currants—I cannot say that it has turned out either profitable or unprofitable, for the accounts are not
made up yet—there was apparently a kind of profit on it; but the accounts are not made up—it was in raisins or currants or dried goods, raisins come from Smyrna, currants come from Zante I suppose, it is an article I do not understand much about—we saw samples of the currants and raisins—Mr. Anderson brought them to us—we saw samples before we entered into the transaction—we most certainly did not entirely rely upon him—those currants have been sold a long while ago, and the raisins also—I had nothing to do with the transactions in Oct. and Nov. last, there were one or two consignments that we had to do with, but nothing else—I cannot say that they went down as far as the beginning of Dec, for I was not in business then, I was unwell.
COURT. Q. When did you begin to be unwell? A. In Dec., but I was not in business in Dec., because my turn of duty was at an end.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Can you give us any idea of the extent to which you have accepted or negotiated bills for Anderson? A. No, that I cannot, for I have not been in business for some time, and I cannot give you a correct idea, certainly I would not bind myself to it—I should say it was not very large; in the aggregate it might be considered large, but small in amounts—I think it very likely there may have been as much as 3,500l. in one month—very probably it might be as much as 4,000l. or 5,000l. in one month—I cannot tell you whether Anderson constantly got the advices from abroad from his own consignors—they were his consignors—I cannot say that I recollect an instance of our accepting bills before we got any advice—the consignment was left to his management, under our control—I cannot say we gave him express directions, because as the consignment wan for his account we had the power, as the parties making the advance, of selling the goods if the bills were not paid—the consignments were to us, or we should not have accepted them—I cannot recollect an instance of bills coming for acceptance and our accepting them upon his representation, that the cargo was coming, or that the consignment was made—it was his consignor who sent over the currants and raisins—they were consigned to him—we never had any advice direct from the house—we did not accept upon his representation, but on the security of the bills of lading.
Q. I will see about that, and be very careful how you answer; upon your oath, on many occasions before you ever saw a bill of lading, did not you accept the bill that was drawn by the foreign house? A. I cannot say I ever did.
Q. But will you swear you did not, over and over again? A. Let me understand your question.
Q. I will repeat it again; on many occasions, did not you, before seeing any bill of lading at all, accept bills that had been drawn by foreign houses on the representations made by Anderson? A. I think we may have done so—he would not then bring us the bill of lading, and take up the bill we had accepted—he gave us security, to enable us to accept the amount of the parties consigning, to be taken up by the bill of lading when it arrived—I will name the kind of security he gave, warrant; that was invariably the case—we never accepted without the security of warrants if the bills of lading were not in our possession—I cannot say that I remember an instance with reference to the currants and raisins, of accepting the bills before the bills of lading came—I would say we may have done it in 1852, possibly—I think we did do it then—it did not go on—during the currant and raisin transactions we did not go on over and over again, accepting bills of exchange before any bills of lading appeared—I will swear it did not—I cannot
recollect an instance—whenever we accepted, the plan was that he was to supply the money to meet the bills if the goods were not sold; if they were sold, then the goods met the bills if there was enough to meet them; if there was not enough, he was to pay the amount—I think in one instance in 1852 he brought bills to me which had been sent over by a foreign house, and they opened a credit in his favour—I think the bills of lading did not invariably pass through his hands in every case—I think there were some cases in the current transactions in which they were delivered by a third party to us for his account—in the course of last year he did not render us a very essential service with regard to some bills of Dewhurst and Co.—he mentioned that bills were in the market which we did not expect to be in the market, but I could never trace the circumstance as a fact; I strove to trace it—I think that may have been in May—it was said to be a bill at six months' date—it is the usual East India custom to draw bills at as long a date as that—it was their habit—Dewhurst and Co. of Manchester are manufacturers—we were not sending goods to the East Indies; it was for an East Indian account, one of our correspondents—they were in the habit of drawing bills at that long date—it is a very usual practice that such bills should be circulated in the market—the prisoner stated to me that one was in the market—I was annoyed at hearing it, because it was contrary to the information that we received that it should not be put upon the market—that was the arrangement with Dewhurst himself—we objected to a bill of this long date being put upon the market, because it is the practice of our house not to have long dated bills—I may have said to the prisoner on that occasion, "I have been deceived if that is the case most shamefully"—I cannot say that our conversation on that occasion was particularly long—I expressed my obligation to him, because he had mentioned the circumstance which brought to light that which I should not have known otherwise—I had no conversation with him on that occasion about his other transactions with us, not at all.
Q. Did not you say to him that you had always confided in him, and that he had always acted with fairness towards you? A. Upon my word, I cannot say that I ever said anything of the kind, but I may have said so; I will not say that I did not—I certainly did not say that he had never deceived me, and that he might rely upon my confirming all his transactions—I did not say anything at ail to that effect—I said he had not deceived me—I said nothing about confiding in him to a very great extent, certainly not—I am perfectly clear that I said nothing of the kind—I trusted to him—I cannot swear that I used any such expression as that I would confirm his transactions—I certainly did not say that many of the transactions he had made abroad I had confirmed, nor that I had taken upon myself to confirm his transactions—I could not have said that I had taken upon myself to confirm his transactions, and had always found them right, because it was only some few transactions that I ever did confirm—those few had run over 1852, I should think, or 1853—the confirmation was not that bills had been drawn before the bills of lading had come, it was on the receipt of the bills of lading—our letters of confirmation were, "On receipt of the documents, such and such bills would be accepted"—we sent letters of confirmation in that way, for specified consignments—upon the occasion you refer to I do not think I stated that I had confirmed everything that I had been required to confirm—I am sure I did not—I stated that I had confided in him—on the occasions when this confirmation has taken place he has come to me prior, and spoken about it, and then I
confirmed it, after the usual and proper consideration of it, acting for ourselves.
COURT. Q. What was it you confirmed? I do not understand. A. Mercantilely speaking, confirming is stating that a credit is open: for that extent, acceptable on receipt of the shipping documents for which the bills are drawn—that is what we term confirming.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Was that to the amount of several thousand pounds? A. I should think so, taking the whole together—on my oath I cannot say to what extent, but I think about 2,000l.—I should certainly say it was not 2,000l. at a time, not on those letters of confirmation; but I cannot pledge myself—I am not quite clear whether he communicated to me that there was this advantageous speculation in currants, or whether my brother was present at the time—it was with me, as the senior partner, that the matter was first discussed.
Q. He came to you as a gentleman who had been very friendly and kind to him, did he not? A. No, I do not think it was that—I cannot say that he ever said anything about my having been very kind to him in advances, and all that—I certainly took the information be gave me about the bill being in circulation as an instance of friendship.
Q. And also the recommendation of the currants and raisins, believing that he was a man of judgment and skill? A. That I did—in Oct last I recollect meeting him at the Bedford Hotel, and having some dispute with him—the conversation did not end with my saying, "Well, Anderson, I am quite satisfied with you"—I said this, "The explanation that you have come down to give me of the non-payment of a certain sum of money that we had understood was due to us, certainly has satisfied me that there was a mistake"—I had certainly been rather angry at first; that was respecting a consignment of currants—I did not, on that occasion, say, "Well, I will confirm your operations," or words to that effect—the dispute was, that the bills were drawn, and prior to the falling due of the bills we asked the question; in fact, it was an agreed undertaking on our part that we would not accept the consignment if the advance was to be prior to the realizing of the produce for which the bills were drawn, and before the bills came due we sent to inquire what time the prompt fell due, and the time was specified on the 22nd—the 22nd, if I remember right, was on a Saturday—the money was not forthcoming, and we sent the broker to know why the prompt was not paid, why he had not sent the check in—the currants were sold, and the prompt was not paid—it appeared, from the statement of the broker, that the prompt was not due till the following Saturday, 29th, which, as I was anxious to get out of town, I felt extremely hurt about, and I went out of town with that feeling—at the interview, when Anderson explained the matter, I did not say, "Well, Anderson, I am satisfied with you, and I will confirm your transactions"—I said nothing of the kind—what I said was this, "You have explained away what I felt was extremely detrimental to you, or rather injurious to the impression I had of your regularity"—his explanation was a long one, in which he stated that it was entirely his mistake; that he had made the mistake, the prompt foiling on a Sunday—he thought the prompt falling on a Sunday ought to have been paid on the Saturday prior, whereas it was not due till the following Saturday—that was in Oct.—I think there was one other consignment of currants after that, or there may have been one or two or three, but that I really cannot pledge myself to say—I did not accept the bills for those, that I am aware of.
COURT. Q. Do you and your brother both accept in the same form,
or do you, if you accept, put your name, C, first? A. No, always in the name of the firm, P. and C.—the name of the firm is P. and C. Van Notten.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Do you recollect a transaction which you approved of, if you do not like the word "confirmed," of a cargo of rice? A. Perfectly—I accepted the bills before that cargo came—I did not say with regard to that, "I will lend you 2,000l. from this house"—I lent him 2,000l.—that was for the account of the house, a No. 2 department; it had nothing to do with Mr. Anderson whatever; it was a cargo belonging to ourselves, in No. 2, which he purchased, apparently; he purchased through our broker, of ourselves—I lent him 2,000l. on security to pay to the house the amount of the cargo—I think that was in Oct. last—he saw me about it in the usual way of business, in our own private room—that has been settled long ago—the transaction was paid for by bills drawn by himself on the parties for whom he bought the goods—I took the bills, and re-negotiated them on Change—I advanced him cash to pay when the cargo of rice was to be paid—the feet was this, it was a cargo purchased of the house some time prior to the arrival—the name of the buyer was not on the contract—the contract was, a certain sum to be paid upon arrival, and a certain sum to be paid upon its getting to its destination—I objected to receive the contract in that shape, or the payment in that shape; I insisted upon having the money, as I did not like to trust 2,000l. open; without security, as the contract was worded—I do not know anything about who the consignees were; I surmise it was a Rotterdam house, because all the bills were drawn upon a Rotterdam house—Anderson drew them, then they were handed over to us, and we negotiated them—we advanced the 2,000l. upon the bills, on the understanding that the bills were to be delivered—I think he gave me the bills a day or two afterwards; I cannot undertake to say whether it was a week afterwards, it was very shortly afterwards.
Q. Was that a mere friendly loan, or did you receive any interest for the advance? A. It was a matter of business, the interest thereon, and commission on the advance—the commission might have been a half per cent, or a quarter, and I believe 5 per cent, for interest; I cannot say exactly—I do not think I had any transaction with Anderson afterwards—I was very unwell on the day he was taken into custody—my brother was at the office that day—I do not know that my brother was not so kind to Anderson as myself; I cannot say that that was the case—I do not think I was particularly kind—I cannot say that Anderson frequently came to the office and saw me while I was transacting business—he came when there was any business which he thought we were likely to undertake for him, but that was not very often.
Q. Will you allow me to ask you, without offence, whether since Anderson has been taken up, you have drawn a good many checks, which you have afterwards torn up? A. Certainly not—there is certainly no reason for saying that I have drawn checks and torn them up—I should be very sorry to hear that my checks had been stopped at the bankers'—I am sure they have not—I am hot aware that they have—I have not been to business since Anderson has been taken up; I was under the necessity of leaving altogether two days afterwards, from illness, and confined to my bedroom—Hill, my clerk, knows where I was.
CHARLES HILL . I am the principal clerk of Messrs. Van Notten, and Co. When Calcutta bills are accepted by Messrs. Van Notten and Co., it is the usual course of business for me to write the first part of the acceptance
(looking at the bills)—the first parts of the acceptances of these bills are not in my Land writing—they are like it.
COURT. Q. It is not the hand writing of any other clerk in the house? A. No; there is nobody writes a hand like that.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you receive from the prisoner, on 20th Dec., a Bank note for 1,000l.? A. The day that he was arrested, I did; it was for 1,100 bags of rice—I did not hold the bills of lading for that rice, I held the warrants; I gave up to him the warrants and weight notes upon his paying me the 1,000l.—they were of greater value than the 1,000l.—it was about 12 or 1 o'clock in the day that I gave them up to him—I have had an interview with the prisoner since his committal; that was at his request.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Who conveyed that request to you? A. He wrote me a note to ask me—I have the note with me.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Just tell us what took place? A. It was relative to some documents that were held by the house of Van Notten and Co.—the prisoner wished to know if we were paid a certain sum of money, whether we would give up those documents—then we had a conversation relative to the health of the Mr. Poles—the health of the senior partner of the house was particularly spoken of—the prisoner regretted that he was so unwell, and said he was sorry there was so much trouble brought upon them by himself; he regretted it exceedingly, and that he should be very sorry, indeed, for them to have to appear for him, and he hoped it would not be at all necessary; that he had given directions that the senior, Mr. Pole, should not appear; but of course counsel had told him that they would have to do all they could in the shape of abusing the house, and that it would be a very great unpleasantly for them to submit to it—I said, "I don't see how they can abuse the house, I don't see what they have got; you know well enough that every transaction has been a proper transaction of business; I don't see how they can abuse the house, the house have done nothing to deserve abuse"—"Oh!" he said, "what is it they can't say?"—he said there was no knowing what they would say.
COURT. Q. Were the documents mentioned? A. Yes, they were bills of lading for wool—we had some conversation relative to accounts, but the particulars of the conversation are not fresh in my memory—I was with him some time with regard to various accounts.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Was anything said by him as to the course his counsel was going to take? A. That they would abuse the house, and do all that they possibly could—he disapproved of it—he said he should regret their being abused in that way; he did not wish it, therefore he hoped it would not be necessary at all.
COURT. Q. What documents did he ask to be given up, only some documents about wool? A. Some documents about wool, and some warrants of raisins, but the documents of wool were spoken of in the first instance.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. You say he did not approve of their being abused, what were the words he used; tell us as near as you can recollect? A. I tell you the nature of the conversation, the exact words it is impossible for me to repeat—he said he should very much regret, indeed, the house being abused, or brought into trouble through him—that was the whole of the conversation.
DANIEL FORRESTER . I am one of the principal officers of the Mansion-house. On 20th Dec., about 3 o'clock, I was at the Mansion-house, and was fetched by a clerk, I believe, from Messrs. Overend and Gurney's—I went to Overend and Gurney's, and saw Mr. Chapman, and from there I went to
Messrs. Womersley and Burt's offices—I found Mr. Womersley and Mr. Burt there—I was shown into a room where the prisoner was—one of the gentlemen said, "This is Forrester, and we must give you into custody" or "charge"—there was something said about a bill being a forgery, and the name of Van Notten was mentioned in the conversation—during the time Mr. Freese came in, and I think he asked for l,600l.—there was some conversation between the prisoner and him about 1,600l., and then I went with the prisoner and Mr. Freese, and a person of the name of Clark, to an office in Broad-street; a Mr. Ryder's I think the name was—the prisoner there had some conversation with Mr. Ryder, I do not know what the conversation was—he said something about the money; he said, "As it has not arrived here, we will go to my office;" and I think he said, "If it arrives here, you keep it for Mr. Freese," speaking of 1,600l., as I understood—we went in a cab from Mr. Womersley's offices to Broad-street; we then returned to the cab, and went to Billiter-street, as I understood, to the prisoner's own offices—he went up a staircase, I think it was No. 22—he turned very quick; he rattled a door, went in and pushed the door, it caught me—he opened another door, turned down a staircase, and ran away—he ran towards Billiter-square—I followed him, calling, "Stop thief!" he got into Fenchurch-street—several persons had a pull at him—some gentleman struck at him at the corner of Mincing-lane, and I came up with him at the corner of Mincing-lane—I afterwards searched him at the Mansion-house; I found on him a 500l. note, a 100l. note, a watch, and a warrant for a quantity of currants.
ANTOINE NARCISSE DUPONT (through an interpreter). I am a licentiate of law. I know nobody of the name of Jacq. Dupont, a merchant, of Paris—I have made ail the researches possible, and I do not know any in Paris, or in the department of the Seine among the merchants.
Cross-examined by MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did you inquire among the licentiates of law? A. No; because it was for a merchant—I inquired for every sort of merchant, banker, small trader, and so on—there are in Paris a considerable number of persons bearing the name of Dupont; it is a very common name—there are 287 electors of the name of Dupont—I know Mr. Dupont, who lives at No. 13, Rue Boulevard, he is a printer; his name is Paid Dupont, not Jacq.—Jacq. is a very common name in France.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Although there are 287 electors, are there any persons of the name of Jacq. Dupont carrying on business? A. I have found eight among the voters, but only one has Jacq. for his sole Christian name, and he is an assistant bricklayer.
MR. CHAMBERS to CHARLES HILL. Q. Did you send over to Havre a foreign bill, so as to meet some demand against the prisoner there? A. Never (looking at a letter)—this is my hand writing—(the witness was requested to read it to himself)—I have read it—I sent over to Havre to stay proceedings with reference to an attachment against his goods there—that was after he was in prison—I did not afterwards go to the Bankruptcy Court, and do some other transactions for him (looking at another letter)—this is my handwriting—I have read it—the "D. and Co.," referred to here, are Dalmaine and Co.—Dalmaine's have paid a portion of some bills that were drawn upon them—they have made a payment on account of those bills since he has been in prison, and we hope to receive the remainder of the bills from them—I think the bills were for 2,500l., but I am not certain as to the amount, drawn upon Dalmaine and Co., of Havre—besides that, I stopped the raisins being sold; that was at the prisoner's request—that is
all since he has been in prison—it was with the knowledge of my principals—there was no chance of selling the raisins except at one time—they might have been sold, but the prisoner wished them not sold, and we did not sell them.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Eight Years Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, March 1st, 1854.
PRESENT—Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart, Ald.; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. RECORDER; and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Eight Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 16.— Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 29.
(The prisoner stated that he had been in the Prussian army, and that distress had induced him to commit the offence. A certificate of good conduct was found upon his person.)— Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Two Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 22.— Judgment Respited.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Four Months.
387. JAMES DOBLES and GEORGE VIRGIN were charged upon five indictments jointly, and VIRGIN also upon one indictment singly, with stealing a quantity of currants, sugar, and rice, to the amount of about 8l., the goods of Edward Eagleton, their master: to all of which
DOUBLES pleaded GUILTY . Aged 34.
VIRGIN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 28.
Four Years Penal Servitude.
PLEADED GUILTY to the uttering. Aged 16.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor on account of his previous good character.— Judgment Respited.
389. THOMAS STERNE , stealing, on 21st Feb., 16 yards of printed cotton, and other goods, value 5l. 19s.; also on 23rd Feb., 3 yards of canvass, and 3 lbs. of rope, 4s. 6d., the goods of John Grower, his master.
MR. DUNCAN conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN GOWER . I am a warehouseman, and carry on business in Castle-court, and No. 20, Lawrence-lane. The prisoner was from seven to eight years in my service as porter—the latter part of his time his salary has been 1l. a week, and his tea; that was about the last two years—before that time it was rather less—on account of something I heard, I was induced to watch his movements—on 24th Feb. I came home about 2 o'clock in the afternoon; I saw the prisoner with a bag in his hand, coming out of the back warehouse into the passage, which connects it with the front ware-house—I turned my back for scarcely a minute to cross the court to our opposite warehouse, and on my return the prisoner was gone, and the bag was gone—I followed the prisoner down Aldermanbury, where I was informed he had probably gone—I met him; and I proceeded to Mr. Abel's, a marine store dealer, in Aldermanbury, where I found the bag with some lengths of rope in it, some travellers' patterns, and some canvass—I am able to identify the bag as the one I had seen before, from the peculiar make of it—I identify it as my property—I identify the travellers' patterns; they have a private mark on them; I could not identify the rope—this is the bag; it is differently sewn at the bottom to what it is at the side—these are the travellers patterns; they have different numbers corresponding with what we have at home—this one has a private mark, as the price on it—the others have different numbers—there was in the bag this length of wrapper—here is no mark on it—I called in Malyon, the officer, and gave him charge of the bag and its contents—I returned with the officer, and met the prisoner—I gave him in charge, and proceeded to the police station in Bow-lane—when I was giving the charge, I said to the prisoner, "You know I saw you, with the bag and its contents in your hand"—he said, "I know you did"—the bag was then open before him, and the wrapper and the patterns were out-—he gave his address at No. 1, Regency-place, Mansion House-street, Kennington—I went with Malyon and Storey, another officer, to that direction, and the officers, in my presence, searched the house—we found there property which I identified to be mine—I found sixteen yards of printed cotton; part of it was made up into a dress, part was in a drawer, and part of it was at a pawnbroker's—I think in the whole there was more than sixteen yards—it was a piece of Hoyle's five-quarter print—he is a clebrated printer, in Manchester—I have every reason to believe it is my property, but there is no mark on it—I had the same article in stock—it is rather common—here is another piece of printed cotton, which is a more particular pattern—this was delivered to me either the last day of Dec, 1853, or the 1st of Jan., 1854—this other one was delivered in the former part of 1853—these twelve yards of sheeting were found locked in a box on the prisoner's premises—it is a make of sheeting we have had by us, which is rather peculiar in the finish and make—we had got the same thing in stock—it is not made up into sheets—we found two yards of damask, I believe, in the same box—I believe it to be a portion of our stock—we had the same pattern and the same manufacture—it is not made up into anything—I did not get the key of the box—the policeman broke it open—I found six yards of silk; I cannot identify it precisely, but it is precisely the same as we had—we found this in the front room—we found ten yards of alpaca; it is of a particular pattern, which we had in the spring of 1853—I can identify it by our having the same goods—the pattern and colour are
rather unusual—I believe we found this in the box—we found two blankets—this one has a very remarkable stripe—the ordinary stripe is about one nail wide, and this is about two nails wide, and we are deficient in this particular class of blankets—these blankets were in the back room, the same room the box was in—they were laid on the bed, but were not in use—I found two counterpanes, which I cannot identify; we have the same goods—we found two shirts, which have no mark; I can only say we sell the same goods; they have not been used; they were in the same box—here are two nightcaps; I cannot identify them, but we sell them—here are six cambric handkerchiefs; these I know particularly by the pattern; we had the very same pattern; it is a particular sort of pattern—we found these in the box—five of them have never been used; one has been used, and cut—here are two other handkerchiefs; the colouring of them is rather remarkable; we had them in stock; we sold part of a piece to a customer—they kept the one that was washed, and brought the other two back, because they would not wash—we had two just the same as these; they are a very peculiar colour, and we missed these from stock—here are four pairs of stockings, and four pairs of socks, which I cannot identify—many of these articles I can swear I have not had two years, where there is a pattern to them—the plain goods I cannot tell how long, I may have had them as long as seven years—I saw Mr. Abel when I went there, and saw the bag and its contents.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do you happen to know how it is that the kerseymere is not in this indictment? A. I do not know—I have not seen a piece of kerseymere in the hands of any person who appears here on behalf of the prisoner; that I swear—I am a wholesale dealer—I cut half pieces of goods—I sell all these things; I have about half a dozen persons in my employ—they are in the habit of selling; there is one of them here—I remember having had this pattern of alpaca, it may be six or eight months—I will swear I have seen it within twelve months—I am not aware that the prisoner had a rag bag—he had not by my consent—I do not know that he had a bag in which waste strips were put—I do not know that that is a common thing in warehouses like mine—we had these patterns in stock, about Nov. 1853—we had the pieces, and we cut patterns and send them round by our travellers—here is a mark in writing on this one, No. 4, and this No. 5 as well, that is my writing—this wrapper has no mark, but the prisoner said he took it from the premises—I said, "I saw you with these things in your hand"—he said, "You did"—I recollect his bringing me two 5l. notes that he had found, and he said somebody had left them and he got 1l. for his trouble—I believe we had not got the notes changed first, I do not remember it—we had received some country notes from a customer that morning, and we sent the notes to the customer to know what he had—I had been watching the prisoner's movements about three months.
COURT. Q. Have you taken stock since this transaction? A. Not since; I have not examined the sheeting—I cannot say whether we have missed any sheeting, or printed articles—the only things I am able to say are missing are the blankets and handkerchiefs—we cannot make our stock of blankets right by three pairs—I have heard that the prisoner's wife makes dresses—these things were found in the back room on the first floor.
THOMAS ABEL . I am a rope and paper dealer, at No. 21, Aldermanbury, it amounts to the same thing as a marine store shop—I remember the prisoner coming to my place with some articles on 23rd Feb., about half past
1 o'clock in the day—he brought this canvas bag with two pieces of canvas in it, and two pieces of rope and these patterns—he wanted me to purchase the contents, and I did for 1s. 2d., I paid him that; I did not purchase this bag—he was to have that back—I had seen him before that day—the prosecutor afterwards came with an officer.
Cross-examined. Q. You deal a good deal in the rope and paper line? A. Yes; when I bought these things I let them be in the bag as they were.
WILLIAM MALYON (City-policeman, 456). On 23rd. Feb., about 2 o'clock I was called by the prosecutor, and the prisoner was given in my charge—he charged the prisoner with taking the wrapper, and cord, and patterns—I afterwards went to the prisoner in Regency-place, I found, on searching, the articles produced here—most of them were in a large green box, in a bedroom—the prisoner, in my presence, referred to that house as his residence; it was furnished very well indeed, very comfortably, very good bedding and good furniture generally.
Cross-examined. Q. How many persons were living in this house? A. Two, I think, beside the prisoner; the prisoner's brother and a woman, I believe they were not living together—the woman has one room in the house.
COURT. Q. Was this house better furnished than any respectable mechanic's or servant's? A. No; there was plenty of good things and furniture, such as many other men have.
JOHN STOREY (City-policeman, 414). I went with the others to the prisoner's residence—we found these things in various places; the chief of them in the prisoner's box; it was locked, and I broke it open—everything in the house appeared very good, and new, and respectable—the house contains four or five rooms; the front room, I believe, is let to a woman, and the wife stated that the brother lived there.
Cross-examined. Q. Is the other person that lives in the house a dressmaker? A. I believe not; she is a washerwoman.
COURT. Q. How came you to break the box? A. The wife said she could not find the key—the key taken from the prisoner did not fit the box.
ALFRED DOBSON BAYFIELD . I am a printer of cottons, and am agent to the Orrege Vale Printing Company—I identify this as being their print—it was not delivered to any house in London before 1st Jan., this year.
Cross-examined. Q. You supplied it to many other houses in London? A. Yes; this same pattern, but not before that date.
COURT. Q. Do you mean that no other house manufacture that pattern? A. Yes.
THOMAS FREEMANTLE . I am warehouseman to Craven and Company, of Wood-street—I know this alpaca is our pattern; I believe it was sold to Mrs. Gower last summer, or last spring—I can identify the pattern.
Cross-examined. Q. How many thousand pieces of this have you sold? A. I think about 2,000 pieces of different patterns.
NOT GUILTY .
and exhibits them in water inside his door. On Saturday night, 4th Feb., we had two odd ones in water, just inside the doorway—I saw the water move, as if they had been taken out—I ran up Skinner-street, and overtook the prisoner—she saw me, and threw the goloshes into a passage—I took them up, and gave her into custody—I am sure I saw her throw them.
JOHN JACOB (City policeman, 266). I took the prisoner from the last witness—I told her she was charged with stealing the goloshes—she said she had not stolen them; if she had been drunk she would not have minded stealing them—she was not tipsy.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows: "I was as tipsy as I could be.")
Prisoner's defence. I did not steal them; a woman put them into my hand, and the gentleman came and took me in charge.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.
PORTER WILLIAM DUNAWAY (policeman, H 129). On 16th Feb. I was in Upper East Smithfield, about a quarter before 4 o'clock—I saw the prisoners following a lady, and Ellis put his left hand into her dress pocket—I watched them, and saw a second lady come along, and he put his hand into her pocket; and also a third lady—they then crossed the road, went behind a gentleman, and followed him—Ellis put his hand under his coat tail—the prisoners then stepped back, and spoke together—they went through Postern-row—I ran through Little George-street, and saw them again—they went to the Happy Family, and passed it—the prosecutor and another sailor came along, arm in arm—as soon as they passed by the prisoners, they turned and followed them, and Ellis went before them, and looked back at them; he then jostled back on the right side of the prosecutor, put his right arm against his breast, and put his left hand into his waistcoat pocket—Smith was close behind him—I caught hold of the prisoners, and called to the sailor, and asked if he had lost anything—he felt his pocket, and said, "I have lost a 5l. note"—both the prisoners resisted, and tried to get away—I was surrounded, and several called out, "Let the boys go, you vagabond"—the prosecutor assisted me to get the prisoners to the Shipping-office, where I got assistance—I was surrounded by more than a hundred persons—I found no note.
Smith. Q. Did you see me near the man? A. Yes; you followed close to Ellis—I caught you, one in one hand, the other in the other.
CHARLES HOUGH . I was passing Tower-hill, with a shipmate, on 16th Feb.—I had not noticed anything, but the last witness called me back and asked if I had lost anything—I felt, and missed a 5l. note, that I had taken out of my fob, to pay for a pint of beer, in Thames-street; but my shipmate would not let me pay, and I carelessly put the note into my waistcoat pocket—I had walked straight, and spoke to no one.
Smith. Q. Did you see me near you? A. No; the other prisoner kicked my foot and pushed my breast, and I told him to keep away and walk on.
COURT. Q. Were you in liquor? A. No; I had had a little, but was not drunk.
Ellis's Defence. I was passing by East Smithfield; I passed by in a crowd; that was all I saw.
ELLIS— GUILTY .† Aged 15.— Judgment Respited.
SMITH— GUILTY .* Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.
THIRD COURT—Wednesday March 1st, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald COPELAND; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Seventh Jury.
MESSRS. CLERK and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
ALFRED FLOWERS . I am barman at the Red Lion, Brompton. On Saturday, 28th Jan., the prisoner Hughes came, and I served him with a glass of gin—he gave me a half crown—I bent it with my teeth, cracked it, returned it to him, and asked him if he had any more like that; he said he had not, and that he was a respectable man, working in Curzon-street—he offered me 1d. for the trouble I had had in drawing the gin; he did not drink it—I bent the half crown and then straightened it, but it cracked, and I returned it to him—he had 1d. worth of gin, and left.
Hughes. Q. Can you swear I was in your house? A. Yes.
MARY ANN WILLIAMS . I am barmaid, at a tavern in Knightsbridge. On Saturday, 28th Jan., about quarter to 6 o'clock in the evening, the prisoners came to the house; Hughes asked for half a quartern of gin, and threw down half a crown—I suspected it, tried it in the detector, and found it was bad—he turned round to Moore, and asked her where she took it; she said, "At a butter shop"—he said, "Why did you take such money?" and asked her if she had sufficient to pay for the gin; she took 2d. out of her pocket, and paid for it—I gave the bad half crown to Hughes; it bent easily; it was soft.
ROBERT LATHBURY . I keep the Crown and Sceptre, at Brompton. On 28th Jan., a few minutes before 6 o'clock, I saw both prisoners there, and saw my barman refuse a bad half crown—he put it on the counter before the prisoners, and said it was bad—Moore paid 2d. for the gin, and they left; I followed them—as soon as they got out a man joined them, and they walked to Brompton-square, about 300 yards—the third person stopped on the pavement, the prisoners went on—I followed them to the Bell and Horns public house; they went into one bar, and I went into the other, and communicated with Mr. Stedman, the landlord.
MARY ANN LANE . I am barmaid, at the Bell and Horns. On Saturday, 28th Jan., the prisoners came about 6 o'clock—Hughes asked for half a quartern of gin—I served him; he gave me a bad half crown—Mr. Stedman came in, and I showed it to him; he took it up off the counter—the last witness then came in—I did not put the bad half crown with any other money.
CHARLES STEDMAN . On 28th Jan., Mr. Lathbury made a communication to me—I took up a half crown, tried it in the detector, and told the prisoners it was bad—Hughes said he hoped I would not do anything in it, as he was a respectable, hardworking man—Moore gave me a good 6d.—I had drawn the gin for them—I gave them into custody, with the half crown, after marking it.
Hughes's Defence. I took the half crown of Mr. Andrew Dandon, of Tower-street, Waterloo-road, where I have worked for three years; I have been brought up there; he gave me the half crown about half past 4 o'clock on Saturday evening; my cousin asked me to go to Fulham with him; I told him I would meet him, and as I was going, I went into Mr. Lathbury's shop; the barman took the half crown, bent it very slightly, and gave it me back; I asked Elizabeth Moore, who lives next door to me, if she had any money; she said, "Yes;" I said, "Pay for this, I will give it you again;" when I got outside, I showed it to Jenkins, the son of a greengrocer, who said that it was not bad, and they could be punished for bending it; he put it between two penny pieces, tried to bend it, and said it was good; I said, "I shall try it again," and went into the other shop.
COURT. to ROBERT LATHBURY. Q. Did you see the half crown bent? A. My young man bent it—I cannot tell whether this is it.
(Hughes received a good character.)
HUGHES— GUILTY .—Aged 21.
MOORE— GUILTY .—Aged 18
Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. CLERK, SLEIGH, and POLAND, conducted the Prosecution.
FANNY AMELIA MATTHEWS . My father keeps the Rose and Crown, Drory-lane. On Friday, 14th Feb., about a quarter past 9 o'clock, I was serving at the bar—the prisoner came and asked me for a quartern of gin; I served her; she paid me with a shilling—while I was giving her change, she showed me a small brass piece, and told me she had picked it up, and thought it was half a sovereign—I gave her change for the shilling, and she left—I directly gave the same shilling-in change for half a crown, and it was returned to me as bad; I gave it to my mother—the prisoner came again about 2 o'clock, and asked for half a quartern of gin; I told my mother she was the same person—I took the shilling; it was bent—we sent for a policeman, and gave it to him with the other.
FANNY MATTHEWS . I am the mother of the last witness. On Tuesday morning, 14th Feb., my daughter brought me a counterfeit shilling—I kept it in my possession till the afternoon, when the prisoner came and tendered a shilling to my daughter—I detected that it was counterfeit, and sent for a policeman, marked the shillings, and gave them to him—I had not parted with them.
JOSEPH GENTRY (policeman, F 10). On Tuesday, 14th Feb., the prisoner was given into my custody—I received these two shillings (produced) from Mrs. Matthews—I found on the prisoner a Prince of Wales medal, which looks like a half sovereign.
Prisoner's Defence. I hope you will have mercy on me, as I have four fatherless children.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
HARRIET MARY MOORE . I keep a tobacconist's shop, in Horseferry-road, Westminster. About 10 o'clock on a Saturday night, about the middle of last month, the prisoner came for 6d. worth of lozenges for her lady's daughter, and gave me a shilling in payment, which I put by itself on the shelf—in ten minutes afterwards she came back, and said that the lozenges were so good she wanted 1s. worth more—she gave me half a
sovereign, which I put with the shilling, and gave her 9s. change—on counting my money that night, I discovered that they were both bad—I wrapped them in a piece of paper, and next morning the prisoner came for a corkscrew she had bought the night before, and I told her that the half sovereign and shilling were bad—she said, "Oh, good gracious me! The young lady's brother gave it me, and there will be a fine piece of work when they find it out," and that she would go and tell them and come back—I allowed her to go, but she did not come back—I kept the half sovereign and shilling apart, and gave them to the policeman; these are them (produced).
Prisoner. Q. Was I doing anything for you? A. You came in the middle of the week, and asked me to buy some cabbages; I said, "No"—you kept talking about your child, and I said if I wanted a job done I would get you to do it out of charity—I let you sit in the shop; I cannot force people out when they come in.
Prisoner. I did not.
COURT. Q. Are you sure of the words? A. She said, "I suppose I shall be transported for it"—I received these coins from the last witness.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows: "I was never in her shop in my life."
Prisoner. I never was before a Magistrate in my life before.
GUILTY . Aged 48.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
ELLEN CONWAY . I keep a lodging house, at No. 10, George-street, St. Giles's. On Sunday, 26th Feb., the prisoner came there with another young man—he asked me for a night's lodging; I said he could have it—he gave me half a crown in payment—I gave him the change, and put it in my pocket—he then asked me if his friend could have a lodging; I said yes, and the prisoner gave me a second half crown—I gave him change for that also—I had no other half crowns, only some coppers—the prisoner and his companion then ran away, and I examined the half crowns and found that they were bad—I took two policemen with me, and found the prisoner about half an hour afterwards at a lodging house—I am sure he is the same man—I gave the half crowns to the policeman.
JOHANNA MAHONEY . I am servant to the last witness. She gave me half a crown last Sunday, and told me to fetch her a quartern of gin—the publican said that the half crown was bad—he kept it till my mistress went and recovered it—I did not know it was bad.
Prisoner. Q. Did not that servant give you a shilling two or three weeks ago which you detected to be bad? A. Yes.
HENRY BINGHAM . I produce two half crowns, which I received from Mrs. Conway—I went with her, and took the prisoner at a lodging in Short's-gardens; she pointed him out from five or six others who were there—he said it was not him.
Prisoner's Defence. I did not move out of Mrs. Burke's kitchen from half past 6 o'clock till the policeman came and took me; I used to lodge there, and somebody put her up to it that it was me.
GUILTY .—Aged 18.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE MAYHEW WARD . I am a hosier, of Beech-street, Barbican. The prisoner came to my shop on Monday, 16th Feb., for a pair of braces, about a shilling a pair—I showed him some; he selected a pair, and offered me a crown piece; I gave him change—I asked him if there was anything else that he required: he said he should want a cravat at some future time, bat there was no harm in looking at some—I showed him some, and he ended by taking a cravat, and not the braces; it came to 18d., and he gave me 6d., more, and went out—I immediately took the crown from where I had put it, and followed him to the door with it, as the shop was rather dark—I found that it was bad, followed him, and challenged him with it—he said, "Are you sure it is the same one?"—I said, "Yes"—it had not been out of my sight at all—he went back with me, laid the cravat and change on the counter, and wished to leave the place, which I would not allow—I gave him in charge; he was remanded on 6th Feb., and discharged on the 11th.
JAMES BRENNAN (policeman). On 6th Feb. I was called, and took the prisoner—he said he was not aware that the crown was bad; it was given to him by some sailors in the Highway; that he had come from Dublin on Saturday, and had no home, and no friends to call—he was discharged on Saturday, 11th Feb.
AMY JONES . I keep a cheesemonger's shop. On Saturday, 11th Feb., about 10 minutes past 9 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came; he asked me for 1d. worth of onions, and gave me 1s.—I directly saw that it was bad, and told him if he would wait I would see if I could get change at the public house; but instead of getting change I got an officer, and gave, the 1s. to him.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware of it.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. ELLIS conducted the Prosecution.
HARRY WARD . I am barman, at the White Horse. On 6th Feb. the prisoner came with another female, about half past 6 o'clock in the evening. and called for a half quartern of gin; it came to 2d.; she offered a shilling to Mrs. Minett, who showed it to me, and I said it was bad; she bent it, and returned it to the prisoner—there was an altercation between the prisoner and the other woman about paying for the gin—I took the gin back, and demanded the shilling of the prisoner; she would not give it to me—her companion escaped, and I had a bit of a struggle with the prisoner, during which she dropped the shilling, and another one also, and said, "That is a
good one"—I put my foot on it, and afterwards picked it up, and found that it was bad—I gave them both to the constable.
CHARLOTTE MINETT . On 6th Feb. I received a shilling from the prisoner; I bent it, and she afterwards got it back—I saw Ward try to get it from her, and heard another shilling fall on the ground while she was attempting to get awaythe other woman escaped.
Prisoner. You told me to go out. Witness. I think I did.
Prisoner's Defence. It was the other woman who gave them; I never had a bad shilling about me.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Nine Months.
JOHN PHILLIPS . I am a seaman, living at No. 2, Baker-street. On the night of 19th Feb. I was at the Cock and Neptune—I went out for a short time, and when I came back the prisoner and another young woman were having a bit of a row—I told the prisoner to get out of the way, as I wanted to get into my place—I had called for a pot of half-and-half—she took up the pot, threw the half-and-half about, and cut my head with the pot—I had only touched her, and asked her to get out of the way—I had never seen her before—when I got to the station I lost my senses, through loss of blood.
Prisoner. You struck me first under the breast? Witness. I did not—I was as sober as I am now.
JAMES WHITE (policeman.) The prisoner was given into my custody—I said, "You have hurt that man very much; how did you do it?"—she said, "Well, I did do it; he struck me first"—he was so covered with blood that I could not see whether he was a black or a white man, and while he was at the station he lost his senses for half an hour—the prisoner had been drinking, but knew perfectly well what she was doing—I was hardly able to judge whether Phillips was sober, as he fainted away.
Prisoner's Defence. He struck me first, and knocked me over against the table.
GUILTY, but under circumstances of excitement. Aged 22.— Confined Six Months.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM BARRITT . I am a labourer, and live at No. 3, Union-court, Tooley-street. On a Saturday night, in the early part of last month, I went into the Red Lion, Princes-street, Westminster, between 9 and 10 o'clock—I was there before 10 o'clock—the persons there were all strangers to me—the prisoner came in some time after me—I had never seen him before—he produced four oranges, and said he would lay them against 1d.—he produced a teetotum, and said that any number exceeding four I was to win, and any number under four I was to lose—I spun for three or six times on those terms, but did not win—I lost 3d. or 6d. on the oranges—the prisoner then told the company he would spin for 6d., and I put a 6d. down against his upon the same terms as before—the prisoner spun, but I might have done it if I liked—I lost, and I then played again, and lost—I then played again
—I won once, but I lost 4s. 6d. altogether—I stopped in the taproom, and I think a man named Hibbard played on the cards next; he had been there part of the time I had been playing—he then played with the teetotum—I bet 6d. and he bet 6d. and there was 1s. down—I lost, and then I bet with the same party, and won—I do not know whether Hibbard won or lost—I had worked with him previously—I did not go into the house with him that night—I did not play with the cards.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Before the prisoner came in, you had been playing with dice? A. Yes, for half an hour, with a great number of people—I had never played with dice before; I have seen the game played since I was a boy—I have not played for money many times—I play at cards—I play at my lodgings generally; we play with the people in the house; we cannot play for money unless we have got some—I was raffling at this public house—I lost 4s. 6d. at the teetotum, and won 6d. of Hibbard; I do not include that in the 4s. 6d.—I lost 4d. at dice—I spun the teetotum myself for the oranges, and might have spun it every time if I had liked—the prisoner was given into custody twenty minutes afterwards, at the suggestion of Hibbard and myself.
JOHN FOULSHAM (policeman, B 62). I received instructions from Barritt and Hibbard to take the prisoner, I found him in the taproom of the Red Lion—I found in his pocket this teetotum, and these cards (produced)—I gave them to the inspector.
WILLIAM MORAN (police inspector, B). I produce the teetotum and cards—I have examined the teetotum, it has numbers on it from one to eight; the high and low numbers appear alternately—it is a perfect simple cheat, on one end of it on the low numbers the edges are bevelled, and nineteen times out of twenty it will not throw more than four, if it is spun on that end; then when you turn it the other way the handle moves, and it will never throw lower than five if you spin it on the high—I believe that the peg is generally stationary, but the effect would be the same whether you move the pivot or not—if you want to spin high of course you will spin on the high part, and then it will not throw less than five—I have tried it repeatedly, and found that result.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you say that it makes a difference where the spindle is put? A. No; but it would look better.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
400. THOMAS DOWNING , stealing in the dwelling house of George Ayres 2l. in money, and two foreign coins called half francs, value 10d., his property, and afterwards burglariously breaking out of the said dwelling house.
GEORGE AYRES . I keep a coffee shop, in Chiswell-street. On the last Thursday in Jan., the prisoner was there from 7 till about 10 o'clock at night; I did not see him go out of the shop, he was there when I began to shut up the shutters, and when I had closed them I did not see him there—I went to bed about 11 o'clock, I heard a noise in the course of the night, got up and listened, but thinking it was some of my lodgers I went to bed again—I was afterwards aroused by a policeman ringing the bell; I found the front door open, and one of my lodgers standing near it; I did not miss anything till the morning, when I missed about 23s. in copper; a packet containing 5s., and two half francs which had been in the cash box—I missed about 2l. altogether—I found this pair of pliers (produced), and gave them to the police.
CHARLES AYRES . The last witness is my uncle, I live with him—I assisted in shutting up the shutters on this night—the prisoner was then sitting in his seat, but when I had fastened them I did not see anybody there.
SUSAN HIGGINS . I live at No. 60, Redcross-street. I have seen the prisoner there several times—the last time was the night after Mr. Ayres' robbery—he was with three others—he had two pints of cocoa, two pints of coffee, and four loaves and butter; he gave me a half franc, a 3d. piece, and 2d.—I told him it was a half franc, and not a sixpence—he said, "Do not you take half francs?"—I said, "No"—and he gave me a sixpence.
GEORGE MATTOCK (policeman, G 162). I apprehended the prisoner, and told him he was charged with being concealed in Mr. Ayres' shop on Thursday night; breaking open the cash box and money box, and taking 2l.—he said he was not there on the Thursday night, but he was there on the Wednesday night.
CHARLES AYRES re-examined. I bolted the doors and windows, the policeman who rang the bell is not here—there are lodgers in the house, but they had no communication with the back door which was found open.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS CULLINGFORD . I am sixteen years old, and am apprentice to Messrs. Fenwick and Kean, linendrapers, of Whitechapel-road. It is my duty to sleep in the shop at night; a person named Clemow sleeps there likewise—about 2 o'clock in the morning in question I was awoke by a noise, looked up and saw a man scratching the glass of the glazed fanlight over the shop—it was a moonlight night, and I could see him stooping down cutting the glass, and about two minutes after I awoke the glass dropped on the counter—I did not look at him all the time, as I was afraid he would see me, because he had a very good sight of my bed—I saw his head touching the framework after the glass was cut, and then turned away—I have no doubt the prisoner is the man—his coat was then buttoned up to his throat—the roof is not very high—the prisoner was afterwards brought by a policeman—my bed is under the counter, it pulls open—I turned my head round under the counter, which protected me from his sight.
Cross-examined by MR. GEARY. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before? A. No; it was a moonlight night, not at all cloudy; I had a sight of him about two minutes after the glass was dropped—after he had broken the glass, he stood up straight.
ZACCHEUS CLEMOW . I am an assistant to Messrs. Fenwick and Kean, and sleep in the shop. I was awoke by a noise at the skylight, and saw a man cutting the glass; it was a moonlight night—I had not a distinct view of the person, as I had to look backwards—I heard the glass fall on the counter—the man had on a coat buttoned up to the throat, and dark whiskers—just after the glass fell he put his head through, to his shoulders; turned his head, and looked round the shop—I am quite sure his head was within the glass—I heard some person outside say, "Are they asleep?—I thought I had had enough of their company, and called out, "Halloo! what are you about?"—the person immediately withdrew his head and made off.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you sleep in the same place as the last witness? A. Yes, but not in the same bed.
JOSEPH MOLES (policeman, K 317). I was on duty in the Whitechapel-road, about 2 o'clock on the morning in question, and saw two men standing near Hope-place; I went towards them, and when I got nearer the prisoner jumped between them from the roof of a potato warehouse which adjoins Fenwick and Kean's premises—a person could get from there to the roof, it is almost on a level—one of the men tried to prevent my following the prisoner, and hit me on the breast—I knocked him on one side, and followed the prisoner till he was stopped by another policeman, 200 or 300 yards off—I am certain he is the man who dropped from the roof—I never lost sight of him, except when he turned the corner for a moment—an alarm was raised immediately afterwards—I took the prisoner back into Messrs. Fenwick and Kean's back kitchen; he said we need not search him, he threw open his coat, and pulled out this bag, and these four skeleton keys (produced); they are of a make which is very seldom seen—another constable picked up these other keys, and this rope of handkerchief, in the direction in which the prisoner ran (three or four handkerchiefs tied together)—I examined the fanlight; there was an aperture large enough to admit two men; three feet by twelve feet had been cut away, by cutting the putty with a chisel—the whole pane was cut out except one corner—when the prisoner threw down the bag, he said, "That bag has had more property in it than you or your masters are worth."
Cross-examined. Q. You did not see the prisoner at first? A. No; I went up to see what the other men were doing, because it was my duty—I lost sight of the prisoner when he turned three corners, but he was only three or four yards from me, and there was nobody eke running.
EDWARD GAMBLE (policeman). I stopped the prisoner; Moles came up, and we took him back to Fenwick and Kean's—when my brother constable went to look at the leads, the prisoner said he had been made a dupe of, and would not divulge anything—it is five or six yards, or rather more, across the roofs, from the fanlight to where the prisoner dropped down.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted)
CHARLES BULLIN (policeman, H 34). I produce a certificate—(read: Central Criminal Court; Thomas Curtis, convicted, on his own confession, Aug. 1852 of housebreaking and larceny; confined nine months)—I was present; the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY . Aged 35.— Four years Penal Servitude
GUILTY of a common assault. Aged 34.— Confined Three Months.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, March 2nd, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. Ald. MOON; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDER, Knt, Ald.; and RUSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Fourth Jury.
NOT GUILTY .
404. MARY ANN CLARK was indicted for stealing from and out of a post-office, a post letter, the property of Her Majesty's Postmaster-General.—2nd COUNT, stealing 1 post letter, 1 other letter, 1 sheet of paper, 1 piece of paper, 2 other pieces of paper, and 1 envelope; the property of Francis Bramwell.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
CAROLINE BRAMWELL . I am the wife of Francis Bramwell, and live at the St. Pancras saw-mills. On Monday, 30th Jan. last, I wrote this letter (produced)—I inclosed in it two other parts of letters, and an envelope as well, with a stamp—I put them all in an envelope, and directed it to Mrs. Joseph Swannell, Stevenage, Hertfordshire—I took it to the St. Pancras post-office, which is kept by Mrs. Jackson—I saw Mrs. Jackson there—the letter was not sealed; I borrowed a wafer of Mrs. Jackson, and wafered it in the shop—I then took it outside, and put it into the receiving box—that was as near 2 o'clock in the afternoon as I could guess—this is the letter and its contents.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You got a wafer from Mrs. Jackson; was the prisoner in the shop at that time? A. No; I saw a female, whom I did not know, and I saw Mrs. Jackson, but not the prisoner—I am sure I took the letter out and put it into the box—I never went into the shop again; I went home—I had a newspaper, which I put in at the same time—I am quite sure I put both the newspaper and the letter into the box—I lost a letter that I had put into the same post-office once before; that was last June—I did not mention that at the Magistrate's office—Mrs. Jackson said the prisoner was not with her at that time.
MARIA JACKSON . I am the wife of Walter Jackson; he keeps the St. Pancras-road post-office, near King's-cross; I attend to the duties of the post; my husband is absent in his business during the day. On 30th Jan. the prisoner had been in my service between six and seven months, as near as I can recollect—I had occasion to give her notice to leave; I had given her warning on several occasions, for neglect, I think about three weeks before 30th Jan.—she was to leave on Monday, 30th Jan.—I saw Mrs. Bramwell at my shop that day, before the prisoner left—she came, I think, for two postage stamps, and she asked me to give her a wafer at the same time—I did so; I did not take particular notice what she did with it; I was engaged in other business, serving other persons in the shop—we keep a stationer's shop—I think she had a letter with her—I did not observe what she did with it after I gave her the wafer; she left the shop—from that time until 8 o'clock I only left the shop to go into the parlour—I went down into the kitchen once during that time—the prisoner had access to the shop while I was in the parlour—she went into the shop to serve postage stamps several times between 2 and 8 o'clock—I was not aware that she was gone when she left—she had not said she was going at that time—I had occasion for her services, and rang the bell, and she was not in the house, she did not answer—that was, I think, about 8 o'clock, or a quarter after—she was to have gone that evening, but she did not say, "Good night," or anything, before she went—I knew that she had a cousin or a relation living at No. 11, Little Camden-street, and, finding she was gone, I went there—I saw a young person, answering to the name of Mary Ann Busnell—I asked her for Mary Ann Clark, and asked to see the bundle she had brought—she showed me a bundle; it was the prisoner's—I opened it in Busnell's presence, and found in it this letter—I thought at the time it was three letters—there are three pieces of paper, and two envelopes—it is addressed to Mrs. Joseph
Swannell, and the envelope inclosed is addressed to Mrs. Bramwell, at the saw-mills—the letter had been opened, and it was all crashed—the papers were all separate, and crumpled—I also found in the bundle a pair of stockings belonging to me, but they were of no use—I took the letter home to my husband—I did not leave any message with Busnell for the prisoner—I made some observation in her presence—I got home between 9 and 10 o'clock, and gave the letter and papers to my husband—next day, at near 1 o'clock, the prisoner came to our house—I told her she had been a very bed girl to take letters out of the box; that my character was at stake by her doing such an action—she said she had not done so—I told her that there were some letters in her bundle, and something else belonging to me—a letter posted at our office at 2 o'clock, on 30th Jan., would be forwarded to the chief office at a quarter to 4 o'clock—I made up and despatched the letters for that delivery—a letter put into our letter-box for that delivery would be taken out and stamped, and would bear the stamp of our office—this envelope does not bear our stamp—if it was put in at 2 o'clock, it must have been taken between 2 and 4 o'clock—the prisoner had occasion to go into the shop several times between 2 and 4 o'clock—if this letter had passed through my hands it would have borne the stamp—the prisoner had no authority to interfere with the letters at all.
Cross-examined. Q. Where is the letter box? A. Under the window board, at the right hand side; it is locked up, until I take out the letters and stamp them—it was not locked on the day in question; I had omitted to do so—I think I could not omit to stamp a letter; I can be on my oath that I did not—I think I can say positively—perhaps I omitted to lock the box, having to leave off to serve a customer or something; I have so many duties—I mean as to serving customers—I generally lock the box directly I take the letters out—there had been a stamping for delivery at half past 1 o'clock—the box was locked in the morning—my husband is a law clerk, and is not at home in the day—I manage the Post-office—I happened to leave the box unlocked on this occasion—I saw the prisoner's bundle done up in the kitchen, half an hour before she went away, or before I missed her; I had seen her a very short time before—I cannot say where she was at the time I saw her bundle in the kitchen—she was not in the kitchen—I did not look in the bundle—there was no stated time at which she was to go—when she had done certain duties she was to go, which she did not do; it was to take up some ashes that she had taken down into the back kitchen, instead of taking them into the yard, and to lay the cloth for our suppers, and to fetch the beer for supper—she was not to have gone a few days before—she was to have gone about three weeks back, but she promised me to be a good girl, and I kept her on that condition—she had neglected her duties—I cannot say her age—when she came next day at 1 o'clock, she said she had come to know what I wanted with her—I cannot say how long I was with Mary Ann Busnell, while I was looking over the bundle—I am not aware that she is rather a weak-minded girl—I never exchanged a word with her before—I have not had any communication with Mrs. Cant, the prisoner's cousin, not till this morning—the prisoner remained about ten minutes; when she came to know what I wanted, and Mr. Jackson took her on to the General Post-office in a cab—he had been to the Post-office, and came back with the Post-office authorities concerning this, and then he went to Camden-town, and while he was gone, the prisoner came—he returned while she was there, and took her in a cab to the Post-office—she merely
said that she had not taken it; I did not hear her say that somebody must have put it into her bundle; I cannot exactly swear that she did not say so, but I do not recollect it at all; I cannot say more—she said she did not put it there—the letter was open when I found it, all crushed up together inside a dress—I remember Mrs. Bramwell saying something to me before the Magistrate, about a letter that had been lost in June last; I said it was wrongly directed, and that I supposed was the reason it had not reached.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Is that a book of your own handwriting? A. No.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Do you recollect calling for the letters at 4 o'clock on 30th Jan., at that place? A. I cannot recollect that day in particular, but by referring to the office book, I find I did collect them—that is not a book kept by myself—my signature is in that book (The witness was directed to fetch the book.)
ARTHUR SPICER DOBITO . I am a clerk, in the London District Post, office. On 30th Jan., I believe, I received and opened the quarter to 4 o'clock collection from the St. Pancras Receiving-office; these are the bills which show my signature—I see my initials here to the bill that was brought that day from Mrs. Jackson's, with the number of letters—a letter arriving for Stevenage would be dispatched from the General Post-office at 8 o'clock that same night.
MARY ANN BUSNELL , (MR. PAYNE stated, that it had been suggested to him that this witness was of weak mind, and requested that she might be examined as to her knowledge of the nature of an oath. MR. JUSTICE WILLIAMS declined to take that course, upon the mere surmise of Counsel; it must be shown by cross-examination.)—I live at No. 11, little Camden-street—the prisoner is my cousin.
Q. Do you recollect her leaving her place on Monday, 30th Jan.? A. She said to me that her mistress's sister was coming home—she came to our house about 8 o'clock at night—she brought a bundle with her.
COURT. Q. Do you know the day of the month? A. No, I do not—I do not know what month it was in—I do not know what month we are in now.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Do you know what day of the week it was? A. It was on a Monday, I think—she brought a bundle with her—after she had brought the bundle she went out, and went down to her mother's—a little while after she was gone, Mrs. Jackson came—I showed her the bundle the prisoner had brought—it was then in the same state as when she brought it—I saw Mrs. Jackson open and examine it—I saw her find a letter in it—I cannot read—Mrs. Jackson took the letter away with her—the letter was open—I told the prisoner in the morning that Mrs. Jackson had been there, and what she had done—I told her that she had examined the bundle, and found a letter.
Cross-examined. Q. How old are you? A. Eighteen—I cannot read or write—I have been out in two or three places—I hardly know how long I stayed at any place—my mistress was a person of the name of Nash, an undertaker—I lived there a few days—I lived in a place in Pratt-street—I stayed there a few days—they do not call me weak-minded in the family, and say that I cannot get my own living—I am not weak-minded.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Where does Mr. Nash live? A. In St. Pancras-road
—I went there as servant of all work—I stayed there I think about a month—I left there a week ago—I went last Tuesday to Pratt-street, to Mrs. Bunker, a laundress—I am in her service now—I did not know before that I was called a weak-minded person, and could not get my living.
COURT. Q. Where were you living at the time the prisoner came with the bundle? A. With my sister, at No. 11, Little camden-street; and I am with her now—I am at Mrs. Bunker's now—I go to work there in the day time, and go back to my sister's at night—I earn a shilling as I can get it—I get 1s. at Mrs. Bunker's on a Saturday, for the week, and I get my victuals—I sleep at my sister's.
ELIZABETH CANT . I am married. I am the elder sister of the last, witness—she sleeps at my house, No. 11, Little Camden-street—she goes out for a day or so when she can get anything to do—she is not fit to give evidence—I heard her speak wrong, but she does not know—she said that she went out in the week to work, but she does not—she goes out to do a little work on a Saturday, for which she receives 1s.—I do not know the lame of the person where she goes to work—she has hex victuals at home with me—she minds my children while I am out at work, except on Saturday, when she goes out, and earns 1s., which she brings Home to me——she would work on other days, but she cannot get it—the never goes out except on Saturday—she minds my children during the week—the prisoner is my cousin—I heard of her being in prison, charged with this offence—I went to the House of Detention, to see her on the Monday, as she was to come up to be examined on the Tuesday—I said to her, "Mary Ann Clark, it is a shocking thing to come to see you here; see the disgrace that you have brought upon us; what is it you have been doing? what have you taken f what did you take the letter for? you can neither read not write., what did you want with it?"—she said she did not know—I asked her if she took it out of the letter box; she said no, she had taken it off the counter—that was all that passed—I asked her what was in the letter, and she said, "Nothing, only two envelopes"—she said nothing more to me, nor I to her.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you tell her that you were going off to the Post-office, to tell them what you had got out of her? A. No—I went there because I wanted to see her, from pity—I did not tell the Post-office about this—I was not examined before the Magistrate—this is the first time I have given evidence—a gentleman fetched me this morning from my work—I told this to a gentleman there this morning; I do not know his name—I do not know who it was that fetched me here—I did not tell anybody about it before I came here, not a soul, only my mother, and her mother-in-law-—my mother had been to see the prisoner at the House of Detention before me—I told my mother what the prisoner had said to me after I came out of the House of Detention—my mother is here—I get my living by washing and ironing—I do not know what I am to get for coming here—my mother did not come here with me; she come this morning with my sister—I have not got a husband—I am not very well off—when I said to the prisoner, "What did you take the letter for?" she said she did not know, that was all she said to me—I said, "You can neither read or write, what good was it to you?" and she said she did not know—the last witness is not very bright—she only gets a little work now and then.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did you say she was not fit to give evidence? A. She is not, only as to what she sees—she is able to do. that—I was sent for
here this morning—I think that gentleman (Mr. Peacock) put some questions to me—no, I do not think that is the gentleman; if it is, I quite forget him again, I did not look at him particularly—I heard nothing at all from the Post-office until I was sent for this morning.
COURT. Q. You say that Mary Ann Busnell has the care of your children? A. Yes; I have two; one eight years old, and the other five; I leave them in her charge all day while I am out.
ANN CLARK . I am the mother of the last witness. I remember her going to the House of Detention on Monday, 6th Feb.—I had heard that my niece (the prisoner) was in custody there—when my daughter came home, she told me what had passed between her and the prisoner—I went with her to the House of Detention, to show her where it was—I did not come here to-day with my daughter; I was here before her; she was fetched here—I mentioned to that gentleman (Mr. Peacock) what my daughter said she had heard from the prisoner, and then my daughter was sent for.
Cross-examined. Q. Pray how came you to get hold of my friend Mr. Peacock, or he hold of you? A. From the officer, I believe—I believe he is a policeman; some one connected with the Post-office, that I have repeatedly seen since this occurrence has taken place—his name is Russell, I believe—he did not come to me—I did not go to him; he was at the office here when I came down to show my youngest daughter the way—he spoke to me after I had been speaking to Mrs. Jackson, through the old lady who was with her, who I believe is her mother—I was talking to her, and then he said, "Will you step this way? I want you to speak to this gentleman"—I have seen Mrs. Jackson this morning, but not spoken to her—she was with her mother when I came here—Mrs. Jackson saw me several times—I am not aware that she heard what I said to her mother—I did not go up in a corner, I was in the thoroughfare—she might have heard, but I was not talking personally to her; she was there—I do not know whether Russell was listening—I cannot say how long it was after I was talking to Mrs. Jackson's mother, that he came up—it was not long, I dare say; perhaps a few minutes, or a quarter of an hour—he only said, "Step this way," and then he took me to Mr. Peacock, who asked me some questions—he did not tell me I was going to be a witness—I was not told I should be called—he asked me where my daughter was—I supposed she would be a witness.
WALTER JACKSON . I am the husband of Mrs. Jackson, and keep the receiving house at St. pancras. I received these letters and papers from my wife on the Monday night in question—I took them next morning to the Post-office, and I believe I gave them to Mr. Sculthorpe, he gave them back to me—I do not remember giving them to Russell, I merely received them back from Mr. Sculthorpe to put my initials to them, and then, I think, I returned them to him—Russell was present at the time—I do not remember which gentleman I gave them to.
WILLIAM RUSSELL . I was present when Mr. Jackson handed these letters to Mr. Sculthorpe—after they were handed back to him to put his initials to them, they were given to me by Mr. Sculthorpe in Mr. Jackson's presence.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 18.—Strongly recommended to mercy by the Jury, in consequence of her youth, and previous good character.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.— Five Years Penal Servitude.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, March 2nd, 1854.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HUMPHERY; Mr. RECORDER; and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder, and the Sixth Jury.
MESSRS. MONTAGUE CHAMBERS, BALLANTINE, and RODWELL, conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES RICHARD NAYLOR . I am chief clerk in the Crown Office. I produce office copies of a writ and of the return for the election of a member to serve for the borough of Rye—I have examined them with the originals—the writ was issued, July 1, in the sixteenth year of the reign of the Queen, 1852.
CHARLES BROOKSBY . I am clerk to the examiner of recognizances. I produce a recognizance entered into on a petition on the return for Rye; it was taken in my presence—(this was not read, but the name of Richard Spileman, of Friars, near Winchelsea, gentleman, appeared upon it as surely for l,000l.)
GEORGE MITCHELL . I produce the Journals of the House of Commons, for 1853—(the minutes of the House were produced by Mr. Charles Healds, and the minutes of the Select Committee by Mr. George Mitchell, in which appeared the following entry, on March 4, 1853: "The names of five members appointed were called over, and being come to the table, they were sworn by the clerk; ordered that the petition be referred to the Committee.")
H——LEY, Esq. I am second clerk of the House of Commons, I take the short minutes of the House. On 3rd March the Select Committee appointed were: the Right Hon. Sir (John Somerset Pakington, Bart, Chairman; Lieut. Colonel Brownlow; William Knox; the Right Hon. James Moncrieff; Robert Charles Tudway, Esq.; and Matthew Elias Corbally, Esq.; they were called to the table and sworn in the usual way by the clerk, on 4th March—(The petition of Thomas Smith Pix, George Augustus Lamb, Robert Horton, and William Fuller, registered electors of the borough of Rye, was then read, stating, that W. A. Mackinnon, Esq., who had been returned as representative of the borough, had himself been guilty of divers acts of bribery and corruption, as well as by the acts of many persons on his behalf; and praying the House to take into its consideration that he was not duly elected, and ought not to have been returned.)
BENJAMIN WILLIAM WEBB . I am a short-hand writer in the establishment of Messrs. Gurney. On 5th March, 1853,1 attended before the Rye Committee; Mr. Jeremiah Smith was called as a witness—he was sworn before he was examined—he gave evidence; I have a short-hand note of the evidence he gave on that occasion—he was not the first witness examined—I believe his evidence is not printed, but I have checked this manuscript
copy which I hold in my hands; perhaps it will be more easy if I read from that.
Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGER. Q. Have you the short-hand notes of all that passed on that day? A. I have.
(SIR FREDERICK THESIGER contended that it would be unjust, if the witness was only required to read the defendant's evidence, as what had passed before he was examined, should also be read. MR. CHAMBERS stated, that he would put in evidence any part of the days proceedings which the Court thought just, but at present would confine himself to the Defendant's evidence.) The witness then read the evidence, as follows: "Mr. Jeremiah Smith having been sworn, was examined by Mr. Merewether, as follows: I believe you live either in Rye or its neighbourhood? In the parish of Rye—I believe you interest yourself in elections at Rye? Certainly.—Possibly you may have shared in the general regret at Mr. Curteis's resignation? I did at the time.—That regret was mitigated possibly at finding you were to have an admirable substitute, Mr. Mackinnon? Exactly.—I must venture to ask you, was there a period before you were quite off with the old love at Rye and on with the new? I beg your pardon.—Was there a period when you were hardly off with the old love and quite on with the new? Yes, there was.—Before Mr. Curteis had quite retired, and before Mr. Mackinnon was quite a candidate? Yes, there was some time between.—Let me bring your recollection to the 2nd of July; were you present at a dinner? Yes.—Given by Mr. Curteis; it was very kind of Mr. Curteis giving a dinner? Very.—You attended? I did.—Possibly you may have heard of it before it took place? I did.—Were you surprised to see Mr. Mackinnon present at it? Not at all—A dinner does not get into a booth of itself; may I venture to ask you if you know who ordered the dinner? I did.—Mr. Lancaster has told us that he helped eat it, and Mr. Davie also, and others; so that we have now the orderer of the dinner and the eaters, and then there is the important part, the reckoning; do you happen to know who paid for it? I did.—Was it supplied by one person? By one; I made my contract with one person.—Your principal contract was with one; do you happen to know whether there were sub-Contractors? I am satisfied he called in three others to his assistance; he stated at the time he should not be able to supply it, he thought, wholly himself.—Therefore, you are pretty confident that he called in three sub-contractors; did they happen also to be publicans? Yes, of course.—That seems to be a phrase at Rye, "of course;" you took your bill to whom? I beg your pardon.—With reference to the ultimate payment, you ordered it for Mr. Curteis? Yes.—You took the bill to whom? To myself, and paid myself.—What did you say to yourself, if I may venture to say so, when you took the bill to yourself? I had an authority from Mr. Curteis to pay the bill—And you told yourself all about the authority, and paid it? I exercised myself upon that Authority.—In any further communication which you have had with yourself has Mr. Curteis paid the bill to you? I beg your pardon.—Has Mr. Curteis repaid you? He has not.—He has retired from the representation, we know? Yes.—And another gentleman at the close of the election reigned in his stead? Exactly so.—Mr. Curteis has not paid that bill; may I venture to ask you, as by the list handed in, you act as agent for Mr. Mackinnon, are Mr. Mackinnon's bills paid? I do not know; I had nothing to do with the paying of any of the bills.—Then, as far as you know, those things are unpaid; but you.
know, as a fact, that this, though paid by you, is not repaid la you? I do. By the COMMITTEE. Not repaid to you by any one? By Mr. curteis, nor anybody.—It has not been repaid to you by anybody? No, it has not been repaid. MR. MEREWETHER. We have been told by Mr. Davie, that Mr. curteis invitations were in Mr. Mackinnon's Committee-room? They might have been.—He says he is quite sure they were? I think they were sent there to me; I ordered them to be printed, and they were sent there to me; I had the authority from Mr. Curteis; he wrote his own note, and from that note I had it printed, and they were sent to me in a bundle in the Committee-room; at least in the room where we assembled to carry on the election.—To carry on whose election? Mr. Mackinnon's.—They were directed to parties from that room? I think they were, some of them; but the principal part were taken away to the George, and directed there under my superintendence.—And there were some that were directed from the Committee-room? I think some of the friends took some few of the notes, and directed them from there; I think they did to the best of my recollection.—Some of your friends took upon themselves to direct the notes there? To invite some of their own friends.—Then the invitations did not proceed direct from Mr. Curteis? They did; they proceeded direct from Mr. Curteis to me, and then he begged me to take the list of his friends to carry out, and some of our friends who were in the room begged to invite some of their friends to come, and I gave them permission.—Then it was a blank warrant for a dinner from Mr. Curteis, with liberty to yourself and other gentlemen to fill them up? No; Mr. Curteis gave me the full authority to give the general invite, and therefore, what I did there was done by my own act and deed.—That is in point of fact the case, is it not, that Mr. Curteis gave you authority to have the dinner, and to act according to your own act and deed with the dinner? I No; he did not; he did not say I was to do so, or not to do so, but he gave me authority to send out the invitations.—That is what I mean? Yes.—There are two views of things at Bye, I suppose, like other places? Upon what points?—Upon points of politics? Decidedly.—Were the invitations directed to both sides of politics, or did they happen to take one? Quite indiscriminately; many without any votes at all—no distinction as to party at all.—Of those that accepted, which party do you think predominated? That I can scarcely answer you.—Try. I should suppose that the liberal party predominated; that is merely a supposition—For instance, we will test the sentiments of the majority; the meat and those things were discussed, and then there was, as Mr. Lancaster tells us, port and sherry afterwards: Did Mr. Mackinnon address the meeting? He did.—Did he indicate liberal opinions? He did—Was that indication favourably received by the majority? It was; by the whole party.—You would possibly deduce from that, that the large majority of the party agreed with Mr. Mackinnon in opinion? I have nothing else to guide me but that.—However, there was that unanimous assent to Mr. Mackinnon's views which makes you think that the attendants were chiefly liberal? Yes.—You say that these invitations were at the Red Lion; were there other gentlemen at the Bed lion, as Mr. Davie has told us, besides yourself? Yes; many.—The gentlemen who managed Mr. Mackinnon's election? Yes.—You say that some friends of yours directed some of these letters; were those persons to whom I am referring the managers of Mr. Mackinnon's election? They begged to be allowed to invite some of their friends.—Those friends probably were of the liberal view? I do not
know at all; I do not know to whom they sent them either.—Were you safe as to the senders' views, the gentlemen who directed them? They were our friends; they were our liberal friends; I do not think we should send them to the enemy's camp.—Then I think the probabity is, that if Mr. Mackinnon's Committee directed the letters, they were most of them sent to Mr. Mackinnon's friends? I did not think it necessary to question them; there was no mistake about that. By the COMMITTEE. Do you consider Mr. Mackinnon responsible to you in respect of that dinner? Certainly not.—Either on employment or in any other way? None; I have never received a shilling.—You have not received a shilling from anybody, I understand? I No; and I have not even seen Mr. Mackinnon's money, nor has he ever promised me a farthing.—Whom do you look to, to be remunerated for that dinner? Mr. Curteis.—During the period that Mr. Curteis was the member for Rye, did you act as his agent? Yes, I did.—Did his election expenses pass though your hands? Yes, they did.—Have you been in the habit of making payments for Mr. Curteis? Yes, many years; all the time this young man has sat in the House, and his father before him.—Have you applied to Mr. Curteis for payment of the expenses of this dinner? No; Mr. Curteis and I have an open, unsettled account.—When do you expect to receive payment? Whenever it is convenient to him; I am not particular myself; it is not an object to myself—Of what nature is that open account with Mr. Curteis? is it an account for expenses, or an account for private transactions? I am a tenant; and private transactions; both; his rent is credited on the one side, and there are debits on the other.—Are you his private agent, as well as his election agent? No, I am not.—How often do you come to a settling with Mr. Curteis? Once in one, two, or three years, according to his convenience.—Are you now referring to the expenses of preceding elections? His expenses have been nothing; not the present young man; he has been returned twice, and a petition was lodged against him, which was declared as vexatious, and the expenses were thrown all upon the petitioners to pay; and I should think his whole expenses (I am speaking now from memory) were something less than. 20l. till he was petitioned against, as I have already stated.—Were you speaking of the young Mr. Curteis when you mentioned the open account? Yes.—Then if you are not Mr. Curteis's private agent, and Mr. Curteis has had no election expenses, of what nature is this open account? Kent and charities, and things of that sort, which he subscribes to.—That is one side, and what on the other? Rent on the one, and subscriptions of a variety of kinds on the other; rates and one thing and the other, which I pay for land which he has in the parish very many times, and many charities to which he subscribes, which I pay for him.—If you are in the habit of paying his local rates and his local charities, what do you mean by telling the Committee that you are no private agent for him? If you term that a private agent, I have an open account with him of that nature.—If an agent pays for his principal his local rates, do you consider that in the nature of an election account? Certainly not.—Do you consider it in the nature, in any degree, of a public account? No; it is a private running account between him and me, as landlord and tenant.—Then why did you tell the Committee that you had no private account with him? I have already stated I am a tenant; I give credit for the rent on the one side, and the different payments on the other: it is a private account between him and me, most assuredly, as land-lord and tenant.—For what land are these rates paid? For lands in the
parish of Rye, principally.—Whose lands? His: in his own occupation, some.—Why do you pay them? Because it is more convenient to get it from me than it is from him.—Are you a solicitor? No; I am a former.—Then what do you mean by saying you are not an agent, if you pay all his local rates? Not all; only a very small portion.—Them if it is a very small portion, to what extent is this open account? I cannot tell at all what my account may be; I cannot speak off-hand; perhaps 300l. or 400l.—I have no desire to inquire into Mr. Curteis's private affairs, excepting" as they are connected with this public inquiry; but after what you have said, I must ask you how does that account now stand? He is in my debt—To what extent? It may be 100l.; I will not say; something less than that—How much did the dinner cost? 226l.—And Mr. Curteis now only owes you 100l.? Something less than 100l. I should think it was—Then how was it that you stated that you had not been paid for the dinner? I have not been paid; only my running account: I have an open account with Mr. Curteis.—What is the amount of each of the two sides of that account at this time? I should say about 400l. and 500l., I am speaking now entirely from memory.—On which side would the 400l. be? The 400l. would be on the credit side, and the 500l. would be on the debit side: I am speaking now entirely from memory.—How long have you been in the habit of paying these charities and rates for Mr. Curteis? Ever since he has paid them, and for his father before him.—How long is it that Mr. Curteis has paid? This young gentleman?—Yes. Ever since the death of the father.—How long is that? I do not know how many years he has been dead; five or six, I should think: I really do not know when he died.—Was not Mr. Curteis returned in 1847 at the general election? Yes, he was.—The young man? No, the old gentleman; the father. I think, if I am not mistaken, that Mr. Curteis, the late member, was returned in 1848 first; I really cannot be positive.—What is the amount of these charities which you pay annually for Mr. Curteis? I really cannot tell you.—Have you no idea from memory what the amount is? They may be 60l., or 70l., or 80l. a year; I really cannot tell you off hand.—You think 80l. a year? I should think 80l. a year might be something like the amount but I really cannot say, because they vary according to his instructions.—Did you say that Mr. Mackinnon's bills had been paid 1 I do not know anything about them.—Do you know who paid them? I think Mr. Butler, but I am not sure as to that; a portion of them; I think he paid the printing, and so on; but that I cannot speak to of my own knowledge.—You have no knowledge of it? No. MR. MEREWETHER (through the Committee), As a fact, was this 2nd of July after the teste of the writ? The writ arrived in Rye on the 3rd of July. MR. WELSBY stated that the teste of the writ was the 30th of June. MR. SMITH. We have always been given to understand that the teste of the writ was when the Mayor had received it and signed it, and whatever occurred we were in total ignorance but what that was the law."
SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. Was 5th March the first day on which any witnesses were examined before the Committee? A. It was—Mr. Edwin James and Mr. Welsby acted in the capacity of counsel for the sitting member throughout the day.
Q. Before Mr. Smith was examined, did Mr. Edwin James state that he thought that it would be vain to contend further?
(MESSRS. CHAMBERS and BALLANTINE objected to this question, as it would introduce a body of evidence utterly irrelevant, the Committee would have the responsibility upon themselves, and would not be governed by anything
which counsel might say. The COURT considered that nothing said by counsel could be received, unless it amounted to an act; but if what passed amounted to an act, it might. SIR FREDERICK THESIGER stated that he proposed to ask whether Mr. Edwin James did not state that he thought it would be vain to contend before the Committee that Mr. Mackinnon was not in point of Parliamentary law and the ordinary construction put upon acts of agency responsible for the treating which had gone on by his agents; that he alluded particularly to the dinner of 2nd July, and that this was the result of no compromise, but was the sincere and conscientious advice of Mr. Welsby to the sitting member, and that he thought it right to state that he could not advise Mr. Mackinnon to incur the useless expense of fighting any longer against a case which he believed must result in the voidance of the seat, and that his agents had been guilty of treating at the last election).
Q. Was not that so? A. Yes.
COURT. Q. When was that? A. It was after the examination of one witness, Mr. Foster—it was before Mr. Smith was examined—I have notes of what Mr. Merewether added—they are not printed—I have the manuscript here—after Mr. Edwin James said he would not defend the seat, the parties were ordered out of the room, and on readmission, the Committee asked the counsel for the petitioners, what course they were going to pursue, and Mr. Merewether said that after the statement made by Mr. James he proposed at once to call witnesses to prove the dinner of 2nd July—I have no note that Mr. Edwin James retired—the examination of witnesses went on—there were counsel who remained in the room on the part of the sitting member, for I see Mr. Welsby cross-examined one of the witnesses after that had taken place—that witness was Mr. Lancaster—it was after that, Mr. Smith was examined.
SIR FREDERICK THESIGER . Q. I believe Mr. Smith was present as agent for Mr. Mackinnon? A. His name was given in as agent for Mr. Mackinnon—the Committee do not allow any persons to be present except their names are given in as agents—to the best of my belief Mr. Smith was present when Mr. James made that statement.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did you observe whether he continued in the room when Mr. Welsby was cross-examining? A. I did not take particular notice whether he continued in the room or left, but to the best of my belief he was in the room the whole time—the Committee adjourned till the Monday, that day being Saturday—they met again on the Monday, to deliberate on their report.
COURT. Q. Have you any note of who put the questions? A. Of the names of the counsel.
Q. But on behalf of the Committee? A. I remember who put the questions, but the rule is merely to put it as a question by the Committee—certain questions were put by Mr. Merewether as counsel, and the remainder of the examination was conducted by the chairman, Sir John Pakington.
(The report of the Committee was here read; it was dated March 7th, and declared the election of W. A. Mackinnon, Esq., to be void).
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. You mentioned that on the Monday the Committee sat with closed doors; did they reassemble afterwards? A. Not till the further inquiry—they reassembled for the further inquiry on 14th April—they may have reassembled on 18th March, and then adjourned to 14th April—I attended a portion of the time as short-hand writer, and a portion of the time another gentleman attended.
COURT. Q. It was the same inquiry? A. Yes; it was on 14th April.
WILLIAM KENT FLETCHER . I am a short hand writer. I attended, and took notes in continuation on 19th April—the Committee had then been sitting on the second occasion three days I think—I was not present on any of those days—on the fourth day I was present, and Mr. Smith was examined—he had been examined previously—I did not take the whole of the evidence on the 19th, Mr. Webb took the first part.
BENJAMIN WILLIAM WEBB re-examined. I was present the three first days—Mr. Smith was examined—he was also examined on the fourth day, and I took down the early part of his examination; the whole of what passed while I was present—it is very long—he had not, previously to that day, given any explanation about the dinner—I cannot, without going through the whole of the examination, say whether that was the first time that the subject of the dinner had been alluded to—Mr. Fletcher has the part of the examination having reference to the dinner.
Mr. Fletcher then read the evidence, as follows:—"Did any money transactions pass through your hands? What do you mean?—Did you pay any bills on account of Mr. Mackinnon? I have only paid one account.—What was it? I wish to correct my statement to the Committee with respect to Mr. Curteis's dinner—By the COMMITTEE. you are referring to the evidence you gave when the Committee first met? Yes.—By MR. RODWELL. Would you like me to call your attention to the evidence you gave on 5th March, with respect to the payment for that dinner? I have not the least objection.—There was a dinner, we understand, for which you paid a bill of 226l.? I should much rather acknowledge my error in this respect; I feel deeply as to the mistake which I made at the time: I stated here that I had paid the bill for Mr. Curteis, which I did.—By the COMMITTEE. You stated that you had not been repaid? Yes, I did.—Would it be an assistance to you, in making your explanation, if the learned Counsel, who has the short-hand writer's notes, were to read to you what you have said? I am quite satisfied, when I make this explanation to you, that it will satisfy all his inquiries.—It will be better for you, before you make any statement to the Committee, to know what was taken down by the short-hand writer? If you please.—MR. RODWELL (reading). 'Do you happen to know who paid for the dinner? I did,' &c., down to 'I knew it was from Mr. Mackinnon.'"
COURT. Q. Was what was read to the witness the same as Mr. Webb has already read? A. Yes.
The witness continued to read the examination, as follows:—"When was that paid to you, how long after the dinner? The same day.—The same day as the dinner? The 3rd of July.—The day the bill was paid? Yes.—You paid for the dinner on 3rd of July? Yes.—And that day you received 230l. of Mr. Mackinnon, in money? I received a bundle of money from Mr. Reeves, which I learned afterwards was from Mr. Mackinnon. I had no idea of saying what I did, till I made one false step; that compelled me to make a second, which I have been very much grieved about ever since; it has very much relieved my mind to have an opportunity of contradicting what I originally stated. I regret exceedingly that I should have said what I did: it was from a great desire to screen Mr. Mackinnon from the transactions; I do not know any other reason why I should do it. I feel exceedingly sorry that I did it. I should have made the same statement last Thursday which I have now made, had the subject been referred to. I have been very uncomfortable, and did not wish to lose the opportunity.
of stating it; it will be a great relief to my mind to think that I have corrected the statement: it is a very great load off my mind.—Who was Mr. Beeves? A tenant of Mr. Curteis s.—A connection of your own? No.—What is his Christian name? Mr. Laurence Reeves; he was a very active man with us in the election.—Is that the only money transaction which you had with reference to that election? That was all I had pass through my hands in any shape or form. The moment it was put into my hands I could not say that it was Mr. Mackinnon's money; but I knew it was afterwards."
SIR F. THESIGER to MR. FLETCHER. Q. Did you observe, when he said "I have an authority to pay for the dinner; I have it in my hand," whether he had any writing in his hand? A. No; I have no minute of that at all—there was none handed in.
WILLIAM ALEXANDER MACKINNON , Esq. I was a candidate to represent the borough of Rye in Parliament at the election of 1852—I recollect a dinner taking place about 2nd July—I got a sum of money from the London and County Bank, at Rye, on 3rd July—I think it was 230l., it was a bundle of notes—I did not deliver it to Mr. Laurence Reeves; I did not give it to anybody—I was desired by my agent, Mr. Butler, to put it into a particular place, which I did—I placed it behind the cushion of a sofa at the Red Lion; there was nobody in the room at the time—I did not see anybody walk in after I came out—I never saw the money again—I got no account rendered to me of what became of it, and never asked for it—it was on the day after the dinner—the defendant was a strong partizan of mine; he acted for me in canvassing, and things of that sort—I know Laurence Reeves.
Cross-examined by Sir F. THESIGER. Q. I believe you yourself were not consulted about this dinner? A. Not at all; I gave no authority for it myself, personally, in any way.
Q. I believe, on the contrary, you had a great objection to it? A. I thought we had gone far enough, certainly—Mr. Curteis and his friends seemed determined to have the dinner, and I yielded my opinion to them—when I was asked for this sum of 230l. I did not know at all what it was for—I merely knew that a sum of 230l. was wanted for some purpose, and I was requested to put it in a place where it would be found.
Q. Was it. described to you as an urgent necessity, that it was wanted immediately, or what? A. I can hardly recollect; it was the second check I drew on that day—I put the money in the place I was requested, and never saw it again.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. You talk about yielding to Mr. Curteis; had he been a candidate, or what connection had you with him? A. I had his influence; he and his friends were acting on my behalf, and I yielded to their suggestion about the dinner, but I was not consulted—I made no objection.
Q. There were two checks that day, I believe; there was more than 200l. requested to be put behind the sofa? A. Not behind the sofa—it did cost a great deal—I knew at that time that the dinner had taken place; I was present at it.
LAURENCE REEVES . I am a farmer, and live in the neighbourhood of Rye. I recollect the election of 1852, at which Mr. Mackinnon was the candidate—I know nothing of a sum of 230l. in money or notes—I gave a bundle of paper to Mr. Smith; I do not know what it contained—I swear that.
COURT. Q. Do you mean that it was wrapped in paper? A. I think it
was; it was a email roll of paper—it was something very similar to bank-note paper, but I never saw the inside of it.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Where did you get it? A. In a room at the Red Lion, on the seat of a sofa—there was nobody there to see it.
Q. Were you looking for it? A. Mr. Butler was there; he directed my attention to it, and wished me to carry it to Mr. Smith, and I did so—I handed it to Mr. Smith; he said nothing—he was in another part of the house, the Red lion—I do not know what he did with it—I cannot recollect the date—I think it was the day after the dinner—I do not know, of my knowledge, that they were notes.
COURT. Q. Were they bank notes, or were they thin paper? A. It was a roll of paper.
Q. Do you mean to pledge your oath that you cannot tell whether they were bank notes or not? A. It was similar to bank-note paper, but I cannot tell whether they were bank notes or not.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you know that they were bank notes, or not? A. I cannot conceive myself how I can be supposed to know when I did not see what was inside.
Q. Then you did not known? A. Certainly not.
Cross-examined by Sir F. THESIGNER. Q. You say you did not know of your own knowledge? A. Certainly not; I know from what I have seen in print—I have seen the statements—if I were to speak from that, I should suppose they were notes; but from looking at them I did not know that they were notes.
COURT. Q. Had you been told not to look at them? A. No; I never asked any questions—I had a belief on the subject; I might suppose; I might believe it was money—I should think it was money—I did believe it was money.
HERBERT MASCALL CURTEIS , Esq. I formerly represented the borough of Rye. I recollect a dinner that took place on 2nd July, 1852; I was present at it—the defendant had been concerned for me in election matters previous to the time of that dinner—I do not know that anything passed between him and me with respect to the dinner of 2nd July—I did not pay for that dinner—I never gave the defendant any paper authorizing him to have that dinner on 2nd July, or to invite persons to attend it—I gave him a paper the day after the dinner; that, to the best of my belief, was the only paper I gave him—I did not hand him a paper a few minutes before he was examined before the Committee; I never was in London; I was not within sixty miles of the place.
Q. Then I understand you that the only paper you gave him was the one the day after the dinner took place? A. I sent him one the day after.
Cross-examined by SIR FREDERICK THESIGNER. Q. You sent him a paper the day after the dinner; did you give him authority to pay for that dinner? A. Yes, if he chose—I gave no written authority, that I am aware of, to ask anybody to that dinner—I desired that there should be a dinner given—I had been, up to the time of the general election, the member for the borough—it was by my desire that a dinner was given to the electors of Rye—when I say I gave no authority, I mean no written authority—I recollect settling the form of invitation; I myself settled it—the invitations were in my own name—I attended the dinner—I understood that, in point of fact, the dinner was given on my retirement from the borough—that was my intention at all events—I have not paid for that dinner—the defendant is the Mayor of Rye—he became Mayor last Nov.—he acted as agent for my father a great many years, and afterwards for me, as an electioneering
agent—he has nothing to do with my rents—there is an account between him and me—he bears the very highest character for integrity—I do not know at all who is the prosecutor of this indictment; it is some sneaking coward, I should suppose, who is afraid of his own name—I have the very highest authority for saying that it is not the Government; I have it from the Government themselves.
MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did Mr. Smith inform you that he had paid for the dinner? A. No; I only know by common report that he has—he gave me no information of his having paid for it—he has never called upon me to repay him—he never showed me any account in which he charged me for the dinner—I have come to no settlement with him—I do not know that Mr. Mackinnon was to pay for the dinner—I never made any inquiry who was to pay for it—Mr. Mackinnon was introduced as a candidate upon my retirement—he attended at the dinner-—I mean to say that I expected to be called upon to pay for the dinner; it was ordered in my name—I have never made inquiries as to how much it cost—Mr. Mackinnon had a committee acting for him, I believe—I do not know who sent the invitations—I wrote out the first one—they were printed circulars—I possibly delivered the one I wrote to Mr. Smith; I really do not recollect, but it is very likely I did—there has been no account settled between me and Mr. Smith since—I never went before the Committee, nor was I in town—I recollect the Rye petition being presented—I have employed Mr. Smith as a political agent, and he has been a tenant under my family for fifty years, and his father before him, I believe—I really cannot tell you how long he has managed the elections for me and my family; I really do not know when he began hardly—I can speak to his being a truthful man—he is a private friend of mine, and I am very well able to judge—I cannot say that I did not hear the statement that he made before the Committee—I still entertain the same opinion of his being a truthful man.
COURT. Q. You say you gave him authority to pay for the dinner, if he chose; what do you mean by that? A. I gave him a written authority to pay for it, and place it to my account, and he might have done as he liked.
EDMUND HILDER . I keep the George, at Bye, and did so on 3rd July, 1852, the time of the election—I do not know anything of a bundle of notes, but I was paid, by Mr. Smith, something between 220l. and 230l. in bank notes, a day or two after the dinner—you see it is some time ago now, and I never kept an account—Mr. Smith ordered the dinner.
Cross-examined by SIR F. THESIGER. Q. I believe Mr. Smith ordered the dinner for Mr. Curteis? A. He did.
COURT to H. M. CURTEIS, Esq. Q. Before you gave Mr. Smith the authority to pay for the dinner, and charge it to you if he chose, had you had any conversation with him as to who was to be responsible for the dinner? A. I do not recollect that I had, but I should think it is very possible; it is more likely than not, but I do not recollect particularly—I am responsible, decidedly—I shall pay him now, if he has not been paid—I was to be responsible if the money was not paid—but I do not recollect that there was any conversation between us as to who was to pay it if I did not.
WILLIAM FULLER . This is my signature to the petition—I was a voter at the last election, and voted—Mr. Thomas Smith Pix is a voter—I do not know his signature; I do not know whether he voted—George Augustus Lamb is a voter, and also Robert Horton.
Cross-examined by SIR F. THESIGER. Q. I suppose you are subpoenaed to attend here, are you not? A. Yes.
(SIR F. THESIGER submitted that the authority of the Select Committee
consisted in their being appointed and sworn by the General Committee of Elections, named by the Speaker, of which no proof had been given. He farther urged, that the first Count of the indictment stated that the Chairman of the Committee was appointed by the General Committee. Now, that was not the regular mode of appointment: he ought to have been appointed from the Chairman's panel, the General Committee of Elections having nothing to do with selecting the Chairman; therefore the tribunal was improperly constituted; and the second Count, being more general, contained no proof of it; that there was no proof that fourteen days 'notice of the time and place of choosing the Committee had been given, as required by the 11th and 12th Vic, c 98, sec, 51; and, lastly, that the allegation in the indictment that the defendant said that he never received the amount of a shilling on account of the dinner, was not proved; because his words must be taken, in connection with the mode in which the questions were put, to mean that he never received a shilling in any other way, or in any other employment, than for the dinner; therefore, it was quite clear that he was not paying with his own money (referring to Rex, v. Leaf, 2 Campbell, p. 134).
(The COURT considered that the objection on the first Count was upon the record; as regarded the second Count, that it was not necessary to have such proof; with regard to the fourteen days' notice, that it mutt be presumed the proper course was taken; and that as to the last point, it was for the Jury to say what the defendant did or did not swear to.)
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
ANN PRESSLEY . I lodged, at the time this happened, at No. 13, Stephen-street, Tottenham-court-road. The prisoner is my husband; he is a cabinet maker—we have been married turned six years—on Sunday, 5th Feb., I was putting the supper on the table, and my husband was sitting having his supper—I did not give him in charge, and I do not know who did—I very much aggravated him, and it was all my own fault—I said he had been down stairs for nearly half an hour, and sending out for hall and half, and many aggravating words besides—I would not sit down to my supper, but stood up, aggravating my husband, and he got up in a passion and struck me on the forehead—I was so agitated, that I do not know whether he had anything in his hand—I did not look at his hand—I had laid him a knife and fork—he was having some corned beef—I bled—the woman down stairs came up.
COURT. Q. Do you mean, on your oath, to represent that you cannot tell what he struck you with? A. Only with his fist.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Just let me remind you, did you tell Mrs. Gaul who came up, what had been done to you? A. I do not know what I said in my agitation—I was bleeding from the blow on my forehead—I went with Mrs. Gaul to have my wound dressed at the Middlesex Hospital, and remained there from Sunday night till the Tuesday week following—my husband did not go with me—he did not go to bed before I went away—I left him with my eldest child.
Cross-examined by MR. LOGIE. Q. Mrs. Gaul lives below stairs? A. Yes; my husband only struck me once; he made no attempt to repeat the blow—I do not know in what direction his arm was—I had been quarreling with him, and aggravating him.
ANN GAUL . My husband is a scagliola manufacturer; we live in the same house as the last witness—on this Sunday night, about 9 o'clock, I heard a noise; Mrs. Pressley called out, "Mrs. Gaul, come up;" I went up, and met her in the workshop, bleeding from a wound on the forehead—she said, "My husband did it with a knife"—the prisoner said, "Do not be alarmed, Mrs. Gaul, she is only doing it to frighten you"—he was partaking of his supper at the time—the prosecutrix had her hand up to her head with a towel.
Cross-examined. Q. What part of the forehead was it; was it high up? A. Yes; I took the towel away—she asked me to take her to the hospital—she had been aggravating her husband the whole of the day, and so she had the Saturday previous; I heard her—he came down into my room on Sunday afternoon, because he would not have any more words with his wife; he brought the children with him—he gave the little girl half a sovereign to take up to her mother, and said, "Ask your mother to get me some tea, and something to eat," but she would not get it.
HENRY EBARD (policeman, E 60). I was called and went to the hospital—I went afterwards to the house, and found the prisoner in bed—I saw some clots of blood near the fireplace, and a quantity of blood from there to the workshop—I told the prisoner he must consider himself in my custody for stabbing his wife, who was in the Middlesex Hospital; he said, "Oh, very well."
ROBERT HALL BATEMAN . I am house surgeon to the Middlesex Hospital. On this Sunday night, about 10 o'clock, I saw the prosecutrix sitting in a chair in the surgery, bleeding considerably from wounds on the forehead and face—I found two wounds on her forehead, one going almost across it, from above, downwards, and the other passing directly downwards—there was a wound on the eyebrow, and one over the cheek bone—one of the wounds on the face appeared to be continued from the forehead—they had been inflicted with some sharp cutting instrument, such as a knife—I found three bruises about the body; I did not examine the whole of the body.
Cross-examined. Q. Was she in a dangerous state? A. No; the only danger was from hemorrhage.
COURT. Q. How came she to be so long in the hospital? A. It is the custom of the hospital to keep patients till Tuesday; she was not well on the first Tuesday, and was kept till the second—the two wounds on the forehead were cut to the bone; they must have been inflicted by two blows; they could not have been inflicted with the same stroke of the knife—the two on the face might have been inflicted with the same movement of the arm, but if so, the patient must have moved.
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding.— Confined Four Months.—(He received a good character.)
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, March 2nd, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Sir JAMES DUKE, Bart., M. P., Ald; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Seventh Jury.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
EMMA HUGHES GOOCH . I am the wife of Edward Gooch—he keeps a public house in the Old Bailey—the prisoner has been employed as a char-woman at our house—in consequence of something that happened I marked some money on Sunday, 19th Feb.—I put it into a box in a drawer—I locked the drawer, and put the key in my pocket—I marked 1l. 18s. 6d., all in silver, and put it into the drawer about half past 1 o'clock—the prisoner was that day in my house as a charwoman—about half past 3 o'clock I went to the drawer, and missed two shillings—I did not say anything to the prisoner till she was leaving, about 6 o'clock in the evening—I then asked her if she had any money—she said yes, she had three shillings—I asked her to let me look at it—she turned her purse out, and there were four shillings—two of them were the marked money—these produced are the two—I gave them to the officer—here is a out across the neck—I made the same mark on all the shillings—I told my husband, and the prisoner was given into custody.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Six Months.
JAMES FOSSEY, JUN., PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months. MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM HART . I am shopman to John Thomas Hart, a currier, in Commercial-street, Spitalfields. On 31st Jan., a boy presented a paper to me—that is not here—but on 1st Feb., another order was delivered to me by a boy named Coventry—this is it—(read—"Sir, please let the bearer have five of the same kind of roans that you sent yesterday. Arthur M'Namara, Paul-street, Finsbury")—Mr. M'Namara was a customer of my master's—I had delivered to the first boy three skins the day before—in consequence of this order I delivered to Coventry on 1st Feb. five skins—they were my master's property—the boy signed the book—I afterwards went to a house in Skinner-street—I found the elder Fossey and a boy in the shop—I found on the premises behind the door four of the skins I had given to Coventry—we asked the elder Fossey how they came there, and who brought them—he said he did not know, they were brought by a person who worked for him occasionally.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. Were there shutters behind the door, so that the skins might fall behind the shutters? A. I cannot say whether there were shutters—the skins were behind nothing—as soon as you opened the door there were the skins—the door did not shut full back on the skins—they were tied up just as I delivered them—they were not concealed—they were japanned skins, such as a coach maker would use—the door was shut when we got there.
WILLIAM COVENTRY . I am going on for eighteen years of age; I work for Mr. Smith, in Pelham-street, Brick-lane. On Wednesday, 1st Feb., I was going along Spitalfields, and I met Fossey the younger—he asked me if I was in a hurry for five or ten minutes—I said no—he gave me a piece of paper—I cannot read or write—he told me to go to a leather cutter's, the
second door facing Spitalfields Church—he did not tell me what to do, but to take the paper in, and give it to the shopman—he said he would wait at the corner of Union-street—I took the paper in—I cannot say that I should know the paper again—it was doubled up—I took it in, gave it to the last witness, and he gave me in return five sheepskins—I brought them out, and there was a boy waiting—he took me to Spital fields-market, and there I saw the younger Fossey—he ran away, and kept beckoning me to follow him, and he took me to a house in Skinner-street—we went into the house by the back way—I had the skins with me still, and I gave them to him—Fossey the elder was sitting down at work, and Fossey the younger said, "The boy has been carrying them a good way," and he took the skins, and put them down behind the bench, and gave me 2d.—I said, "Is that all you are going to give me?" and he gave me another 1d., and said, "If you want any more you must come down at night time"—the elder Fossey was at work, mending some harness—he did not say anything—I was sent out the front way.
Cross-examined. Q. All that you have spoken of was done by the younger man; he gave you the order, took the skins, paid you, and took you to the house where the old man was at work mending harness? A. Yes, the old man did not say anything—the skins were put down behind the bench at the back of the shop.
EDWARD M'NAMARA . I conduct the business of my father, Arthur M'Namara; he is a contractor, and lives in Finsbury—I have no knowledge of the younger prisoner—this order is not my father's writing, nor mine—it is not authorised by my father—it is my duty to give orders on printed forms—my father deals with Mr. Hart, in Spitalfields—neither of the prisoners had any right to order or receive goods for us—these five skins were never received by us.
WILLIAM HOGAN (police-sergeant, H 40). On 1st Feb. I went to the house of the elder prisoner, No. 69, Skinner-street—I found these five skins behind the door—I asked the elder prisoner who was the man who brought them to his place—he said he did not know, but he worked for him occasionally—he did not know his name or address, but he would be there early in the morning—I took him and the skins—I took the younger prisoner about 7 o'clock the same evening—he was behind a bench—I saw him stoop down—I went and told him he was my prisoner—I told him the charge.
JAMES FOSSEY, THE ELDER— NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
411. MARGARET MORAN and MARY MORAN , stealing, on 29th Dec, 5 carpet bags, value 1l., and on 14th Jan. 1 carpet bag, value 4s., and on 31st Jan. 1 carpet bag and 1 yard of carpet, value 8s., the goods of Julius Henry Fiedler, the master of Margaret Moran.
MR. LLLLEY conducted the Prosecution.
LOUIS NEWMEGAN . I am in the employ of the last witness. In consequence of directions I received, I observed the conduct of the prisoners on the morning of 31st Jan.—I first saw them about five minutes past 8 o'clock
in the morning, standing at the warehouse door—when the warehouse was opened they went in—I continued to watch, and saw Mary Moron come out and look up and down the street two or three times, and then go in again; that was about ten minutes past 8 o'clock—in about five minutes both the prisoners came out—the mother, Margaret, had a large parcel, and Mary, the daughter, was carrying something—I followed them up Phillip-lane to Mr. Kussell's, in Fore-street—I got an officer, went into Mr. Russell's shop, and gave the prisoners into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. What distance were you from them? A. About a dozen yards, when I first saw them—I was in Addle-street—the parcel the elder prisoner was carrying was her work—the younger was carrying a small flat parcel in a wrapper—I know the elder prisoner was carrying her work, because I went in and asked.
GEORGE BRACKLEY (policeman, C 115). About 9 o'clock that morning I went to Mr. Russell's, the pawnbroker's—I found the two prisoners both in one box—I asked the man who was serving, in their presence, if they had tendered anything to pawn—he said "Yes," the younger had tendered a carpet bag for 4s., and the elder a piece of carpet, which I believe was for 2s.—I asked the elder prisoner how she became possessed of the property, and the younger prisoner began to cry—she dropped down in the box, and said, "Oh, forgive us!"—I told the mother I should take her into custody, for what she had stolen from the warehouse of Mr. Fiedler—she made no reply—I produce the carpet bag.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you in uniform? A. Yes—the younger prisoner dropped down previous to my saying I would take them into custody.
ALEXANDER ADAMS . I am shopman to Mr. Russell, a pawnbroker, No. 37, Fore-street I remember Brackley coming on 31st Jan.—the prisoners were there, and before he came in the younger prisoner had offered this carpet bag to pawn for 4s. and this carpet was offered by the elder prisoner for 1s. 6d.—the officer came in, and after some conversation, which I did not hear, he took them into custody—after they were gone I had a parcel handed to me by a person who came into the box—I saw the person pick up the parcel, and told them to give it to me—it contained a number of pieces of carpet cut into slippers, and this carpet bag—I produce two other carpet bags, which were pawned on 23rd Dec, I cannot say by whom—I might take them in, but the duplicate is in the handwriting of one of our boys.
COURT. Q. Is it your custom to take in perfectly new carpet bags? A. We did not take in the last one—the other two are perfectly new—we take in carpet bags of the makers, very frequently, and have the makers' cards brought with them—when persons come we ask the question.
STEPHEN KING . I am shopman to Mr. King, a pawnbroker, No. 34, High Holborn—I have known both the prisoners for two years. On 14th Jan. I saw them at my employer's house—the elder prisoner pawned this carpet bag in the presence of the younger.
Cross-examined. Q. When was your attention called to this? A. In the latter end of Jan., by the officer calling—I am quite certain the prisoners were together; I remember it.
COURT. Q. Is it your custom to take in a perfectly new bag, as that is, without knowing where it comes from? A. We knew the party some time, and knew where she had been living, about two years ago—I did not know she worked for a carpet bag manufacturer.
Farringdon-street I produce three carpet bags—I received two of them, one on 19th Dec., and the other on 23rd—they were both offered by the elder prisoner, but both the prisoners were present—they were offered in presence of the younger prisoner on both occasions—this other was received on 16th Jan.
COURT. Q. Did you know the elder prisoner? A. No, not before that—I asked if they were her property—we ask the usual questions, the person's name and address, and they give it.
COURT. Q. Was the younger prisoner present? A. No—when we take in articles we inquire if it is the person's own property—I did not know the elder prisoner.
MR. FIEDLER re-examined. These bags are all my property—this carpet is mine—this bag, that was found at the bottom of the work, I can particularly swear to; it has my mark on it—I had not seen the work delivered out to them that morning—I can swear to all these bags without any hesitation.
JURY. Q. Was it possible they could be sold without your knowledge? A. No.
Cross-examined. Q. That one that was at the bottom of the work has your private mark on it? A. Yes—I cannot say when I had seen the others on my premises—they were on my premises on 8th Dec., because we took stock on that day—the bags were counted, and these were on my premises—I had a certain number of a certain size on my premises, and now they are gone—I cannot tell how many dozen bags we sell in the course of a year—I believe the elder prisoner has been in my service two years—there was 6s. due to her when she was taken—I only know the younger prisoner by her coming with her mother—it was not the prisoner's duty to come for work till after 9 o'clock in the morning—she got this work by petitioning the man to let her have it before 9 o'clock—I am there myself at 9 o'clock—since this occurred I find that this woman has been in the habit of coming early, and waiting till the shutters were taken down—Newmegan had watched by my desire.
MR. LILLEY. Q. If she came before 9 o'clock in the morning she came in breach of your rule? A. Yes; from having taken stock on 8th Dec, I am able to state positively that I had not sold this identical bag out of my stock.
MARGARET MORAN received a good character.
Aged 50— Confined Eighteen Months.
Aged 13.—The JURY stated, that they considered her to have acted under the compulsory influence of her mother.— Judgment Respited.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS TOWNSEND (policeman, H 54). On 17th Feb. I was on Tower-hill, there were a number of persons there, and I saw the two prisoners together—I saw Walters go to the prosecutor William Saunders, and touch his pocket—he then drew about three quarters of a yard away, and Cooper went and stood in the same place where Walker had been—he lifted the prosecutors right arm up, and put his right hand into his pocket, and I
took hold of him directly—he dropped a half crown on the ground—the prosecutor is not here—I asked him if he had lost anything—he said, "Yes, a half crown."
COURT. Q. How long before this, had you seen the prisoners? A. I had seen Cooper for about three quarters of an hour; he was going towards the London Dock and met Walters, and they went together to the prosecutor.
JURY. Q. Are you quite sure the half crown was taken from the pocket of the party? A. Yes; the prosecutor was before the Magistrate and was bound over to appear, but he has not, I expect he has been kept out of the way.
Walter's Defence. A man asked me to carry a box, and I came back and there were two men singing; the officer took this boy, and then he came and took me.
COOPER— GUILTY.* Aged 16.
WALTERS— GUILTY . Aged 16.
Confined twelve months.
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
CLARA SMITH . I am single, I am the niece of Mr. John Richard Cornock, of No. 6, Sussex-place, Kingsland; his brother was living there at this time. On Friday, 17th Feb., I was the last up in the house—I made the house safe—the back kitchen window was safe, it was secured by a catch—there were some shirts and other clothes in that kitchen belonging to my uncle's brother—I went to bed at 12 o'clock, and got up in the morning about 7 o'clock; I went into the back kitchen, the window was a little way open, and a piece of glass taken out—when that was out any one could put in their hand and arm, undo the catch and open the window—the shirts, trowsers, socks, blankets, and a bag, were all gone.
HARRIETT FLAGG . On 17th Feb., I was living as servant at Mr. Cornock's—I came down at 7 o'clock on the morning of the 18th—I found some snow on the floor in the back kitchen, a chisel under the window, and a fracture in the glass, the window was open—I know the clothes had been in the kitchen on the over night, and they were gone in the morning—they had been in a bag together, I had not heard anything in the night.
JOHN HARVEY (police sergeant, G 14). On Monday, 20th Feb., I was in Bishopsgate-street about 2 o'clock; I saw both the prisoners in company—they were each carrying a bundle—I stopped them, and asked what they had got—they said some shirts and trowsers, and they had bought them of a Jew in Golden-lane, and given 14s. for them—I took them to the station, and, found these goods which were claimed by Mr. Cornock.
WILLIAM HENRY CORNOCK . I am the brother of the prosecutor, and am a seaman. On the night of 17th Feb., I was staying at my brother's—there was some of my property in the back kitchen, and it was gone in the morning; I have seen part of it since, what I have seen is part of what was stolen that night—the value of all I lost, was about 12l.—here are seventeen shirts, seven pairs of trowsers, and seven pairs of stockings, I lost about fifty shirts.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
CATHERINE PORTER . My son is a die sinker, in Percival-street, Clerken. well. I have resided there forty years—on Wednesday, 18th Jan., the prisoner came—I saw him—he produced to me a piece of lead and a punch—the lead had the mark of a leopard's head on it——I could not discern it—he asked me if I could have them engraved; I told him I thought I could, but my son was not at home; if he would leave them with me, I would give them to him—he asked what time my son would be in; I told him I could not tell; but if he would leave them, and call again, I would tell him—he left them—I gave them to my son the next day—it was after 8 o'clock at night when the prisoner called.
HENRY WEBB PORTER . I am a die sinker—I know the prisoner—I saw him about nine months ago, at my place of business—my mother gave me this piece of lead and this punch, and the prisoner called on 19th Jan. I produced this punch and piece of lead—the prisoner said he left them on purpose for me to see, to know whether I would do them for him, and the price—I told him the price would be 7s. 6d.—I was to engrave a leopard's head, which was the impression on the lead on the punch—it was to be done on the following Saturday—the prisoner did not call on Saturday, he called on Monday evening, and a person with him, whom I did not know at the time, but I afterwards heard his name was Groves—the prisoner wanted to know if it was done; I told him to come up because I did not exactly understand about the size—he said how he wanted it done, and I said it would be done between 1 and 2 o'clock on the following day—he said if I pleased him with this, there would be another to make of a crown—he did not show me a crown then, but it was to be a size similar to what he had shown me some months ago—he was to come the following day for this punch and lead—the prisoner and Groves both came on the following day—there was not time for them to ask if the punch was ready, for the officer was there at the time—on the Monday I made the excuse for the punch not being ready, that the die was hard, and the prisoner said his man had filed it up, pointing to Groves, who was with him, and he was not aware but that it was soft.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. What part in the conversation did Groves take? A. In the evening, when he called with the prisoner, he was the man—the prisoner said that this man was the one that filed up the punch—he passed him off as his man—Groves said he had filed up the punch—when I first saw the prisoner, he said he wanted the impression done exactly as it was on the lead—I call it a leopard's head, because a leopard's head is perceptible—I was examined before the Magistrate—on that occasion Groves was charged, and discharged—he was not made a witness—I mentioned before the Magistrate about the man's filing the punch in the manner I have stated—I do not know that I have ever said, except before the Magistrate, that the prisoner called Groves his man.
THOMAS GROVES . I am a watch case maker, and live at No. 4, Northampton-buildings, North-road. The prisoner lodged in the same house, as near as I can say, between four and five years—some weeks ago he asked me if I would make some watches for him—I said I would make the cases—he told me he would find the frames—he asked me if I struck the Hall mark; I told him if I did, I should be under a heavy penalty—I did not agree to strike the Hall mark; I refused—the prisoner said he would strike them himself, and he would carry the punch to Mr. Porter.
Cross-examined. Q. Is not that house your mother's? A. Yes, it is
now; it was my father's—daring part of the time the prisoner was there, he was in a stationer's employ regularly, and statedly at work in a stationer's shop—my father's business was a watch case maker—the time when the conversation took place between me and the prisoner is about eight or nine weeks ago from the present time—I had only one conversation with him about this matter—I dare say it was a fortnight after I had the conversation that I went with him to Mr. Porter's house; I cannot tell for certainty—I had no conversation with him in this case between that time and the day I went to Mr. Porter's.
Q. When did you first see this punch which is lying before you? A. I saw it eight or nine weeks ago; the prisoner did not show it me—it was in my place—it is not my mother's; it was in my place—it is not a punch that had been used in my father's business—it had never been used at all by me, or in my presence—it was not a new punch; it was just as it is now—I first saw it up in the shop—it was not first shown to me by the prisoner; it was not shown to me at all; it was lying in my mother's workshop—I had seen it in the workshop before the conversation with the prisoner—I had seen this piece of lead before it was shown to me by the prisoner—I cannot say when I first saw it—it is a description of lead that my mother uses in the business—I thought it was a heavy penalty to counterfeit the Hall mark, and I told the prisoner so—I went with him to Mr. Porter's, because he asked me to go with him, and I accordingly went.
Q. Did you not yourself employ the prisoner to take this punch and lead to Mr. Porter's, and to represent that he was your master, and you his workman? A. No—when the prisoner was taken, a sovereign was taken from him—I did not claim that sovereign as my property, nor did my brother—my brother was not at the station when I and the prisoner were taken into custody, that I am aware of; I think he was at the station when I came out—I did not tell my brother to apply for the money that was found on the prisoner, as it was my property, and I had given it him to pay for the die—I will swear I never told him anything of the sort—I was discharged by the Magistrate.
Q. Before you were discharged by the Magistrate, had you a conversation with the gentleman who conducts this prosecution, the solicitor, as to what evidence you could give? A. Only the party I employ; I cannot tell his name—the way I came to know this lawyer was, a person came to our house, as I have been given to understand—a person came to me in the House of Detention—he did not tell me, if I would give evidence against the prisoner, I should be discharged—he did not say if I could give evidence against Mackin he would procure my discharge; nothing of the kind—he asked what was the case, and I told him—he asked me if I would give any evidence—he told me if I was discharged I should have to go as evidence against the other prisoner—I do not know a person of the name of Cooper, an attorney—I know Mr. Levine; that is the man that I employed—I did not go to Mr. Levine's office yesterday, nor the day before, nor within two or three days; I have not seen him within the last week—I saw the prisoner yesterday—I was in conversation with him last night—I told him last night that I had been to the person who came to me at the House of Detention, and had given him a guinea to instruct me in what I was to say to-day.
MR. POLAND. Q. You saw the prisoner last night? A. yes and told Him I had given a guinea to Mr. Levine for knowledge how to act—he gave Me orders beforehand, that I was not to say anything before I spoke to him—did not tell me that before the magistrate, but privately, at his own
house—when I gave him the guinea, he told me to tell Mr. Prideux what I have stated to-day—I had not told Mr. Levine before that, I could state what I have stated to-day—I had told him when I was acquitted, that I could give the evidence which I have given to day—this lead and die are not things which I use in my business—my father did not use them—they were in the shop—the die was with other punches, and pieces of steel—we have plain punches—the lead is used for laying on our own Hall marks—this piece of lead was cut off from the other two, which were in the shop—we have the lead to lay on our own Hall marks, to bring the Hall mark up in its proper place, and then the mark will come on the lead.
COURT. Q. How is it you get the impression on the lead? A. It comes by hammering this lead on the stamp on the stake, which is a piece of iron—the Hall mark goes down in a hollow, and we have to take some lead, cut in a square, or in an octagon shape, and lay it on, and strike it with the hammer to get the case in shape, and the impression will come on the lead—this punch was in the shop in my father's time—he died thirteen weeks ago last Thursday—I saw the punch lying in the shop with other punches before he died—we have our own private mark on punches similar to this, only the punch is square—when this punch was taken from my shop it was plain, and it is plain now.
JOSIAH SHARPE . I am Deputy Warden of the Goldsmith's Company, I am conversant with the Hall marks, and the mode of stamping. On this piece of lead here is the impression of the leopard's head, used by the Goldsmith's Company—it is one of their marks—this has been struck upon a Hall mark, on a silver watch case—beating a piece of lead of this kind on that, would make this impression—the Crown is one of the marks of the Goldsmith's Company.
COURT to THOMAS GROVES. Q. Had you lent any money to the prisoner previous to this transaction? A. Yes; I had lent him 1l. on the morning we went to Mr. Porter's house.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you take the money which was found on the prisoner? A. Yes; Groves did not demand a sovereign that was found on him.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
(The Jury stated that they believed him to be the dupe of the witness Groves.)
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS BOUGEARD . I am a boot maker—I became acquainted with Mr. Wood; I was in custody, and he came to me at the station house. On 10th January last, I went to his office, No. 1, Walbrook-buildings, at the back of the Mansion House, and asked for Mr. Wood—when I went, I saw the prisoner; I had not noticed him before I had seen him in company with Mr. Wood; I had never spoken to him—I asked him for Mr. Wood; his reply was, that he was in the country for some time, but it was no matter, he being the partner of Mr. Wood; I had better state my case to him—I gave him all the explanation of my case against the Company—I had these papers (produced) in my hand—I gave him this paper, and he wrote himself on the back of it, my claim against the London and North Western Railway Company, and this is his handwriting—he
said, "You know neither I nor Mr. Wood are very rich; we cannot proceed in the action without a little remuneration"—I asked him what he called a little remuneration; he said, for 4l. he would carry it to trial—I told him 4l. was too heavy for me to give at once; I most give him small sums—I went and brought 15s. that night and gave him, and he told me he would proceed with the case, and serve the writ himself the next day, and in a week's time I should have all the full particulars, and the news of the Company—there were two persons with me at the interview in the morning; not in the evening—I saw him again ten days after at the same office; Miss Clara and myself went—he said the Company seemed to fight with him, because they put in an appearance to the writ, which he served on the secretary—he asked me the list of goods, and the prices which I claimed of the Company—I did not give it him that day; I had it not with me—I saw him again on the 26th—he asked if I had brought a list of my goods; "I said, "Yet;" and gave him this list—he asked me for money; I told him I could not give him much that night, I was very short—he asked what I could give him; I gave 10s., and he put the receipt on this paper; I saw him sign it—he said he wanted the 10s. to put in the declaration of the debt, and the claim—I saw him again on 1st Feb.; he told me he had given the declaration, and he wanted money to give notice of trial; I gave him 11s., and did not ask for a receipt for it—he gave me an order for one pair of boots—I called three or four times after that; I called nearly every day—I took the boots home on Friday, accompanied by Mr. Smith and Miss clara—I asked him if we were going on all right; he said, "Yes"—he said, "I have no time to wait on you now, come next Monday, and bring more money, for fees for the counsel, and fees for the court"—I called again on the Monday before the Wednesday, the trial was to come on on Monday, 13th—I found nobody in the office only an old man, who was there to guard the place—I asked for Mr. Younger; he said he was not come in yet—I called three or four times after that; I never saw the prisoner—I gave him into custody on Friday morning, the 17th, I think—I have made inquiries at all the offices, at the Queen's Bench, at the Rolls Office, at the Writ Office, and others.
(MR. THOMPSON stated, that he was unable to carry the evidence further.)
NOT GUILTY .
MR. POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM TAYLOR . I am clerk to the Magistrate at the Westminster police court. I produce this summons—I got it from the court—it was procured from the office by Sarah Greenhalf—the defendant appeared at the court on 6th Feb., in, pursuance of this summons—it was served on him by a police officer.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Who handed this paper to you? A. The officer handed it to me, and I heard the name of James Jordan called, and he appeared—this summons would have been read if an attorney had
not appeared for him, and that form was not gone through—the first witness called was Sarah Greenhalf, and the second was Mary Aknous; they were the only two persons called—the defendant was called as a witness on his own behalf—the witnesses were sworn in a regular way, and the defendant also—I was present the whole time, and took the evidence.
(The summons against the defendant was for the support of a bastard child of which he was alleged to be the father; his evidence was ready as follows: "I live at No. 26, Exeter-street. I am a carpenter—I know the complainant; I knew her at a village called Dorchester, in Oxfordshire—I went backwards and forwards to work for my father, where she was in service—I spoke to her, that was all—I never had any connection with her, that I swear—I came up to London on 20th July—about two months afterwards I saw her she came to my lodging at Exeter-street, and inquired for me—I had not written to her—I have never written to her—she did not tell me how she found me out—there was another young woman with her, a stranger, and the complainant wanted me to have her, to marry her; I said I knowed nothing of her, and should not think of doing any such thing—the complainant took a lodging opposite where I live—I saw the witness, Aknous, some time after—about a week after the complainant first came, the witness, Mrs. Aknous, called on me, and asked me to marry complainant; I said I did not mean to do any such thing, she was nothing to me—I never sent any letter to the complainant by Mrs. Aknous while the complainant was in the workhouse, nor any tea or sugar—I wrote her no letter at the work, house.
Cross-examined by the complainant.—I did not give up my lodgings to you the first week you came into London—I never sent a letter to your aunt, Mrs. Lorman, at Enfield; I never wrote to her—I did not come every opportunity to you at the situation where you was—I did not bring an apron of buns to you and your fellow servant on Good Friday—I did not ask you to drink different sorts of tea while you were carrying the child to destroy—I did not come every night at 8, 9, or 10 o'clock, and some nights you would not let me in—I never went, only when I went to work—I never came in the morning, only to work; never so early as 5 o'clock—I did not throw up at your bedroom window to wake you. By the MAGISTRATE I first became acquainted with the complainant in April last—at that time she was in a situation in Dorchester—I was living with my father there—I worked at the house where the complainant lived two or three times a week, sometimes more, up to the time I came away in July—two months afterwards I first found she was in town—I had not sent any message to her, or received any from her before she came up—I was never at Mrs. Aknous's house—before the complainant went to the union she told me she went to Chelsea-common, to inquire for me-—I was never in Mrs. Aknous's house but on one occasion, when Mrs. Aknous asked me in, and asked me to marry the complainant—the complainant was present then—I was never present when any papers were burnt at Mr. Aknous's room—I never received any box or boxes or anything to take charge of for the complainant while she was in the union—I never saw the letter produced before—I never sent any parcel or anything to the complainant while she was in the union by Mrs. Aknous or any one else—I know Cadell, a milk-man, at Dorchester—I saw him talking at the kitchen window to her on one occasion—I never kept company with her at all—I saw the milkman Cadell with his arms round her neck one evening, and I came away and left them, and went about my business—I distinctly deny I ever had any connection with her—I saw her after she took out the summons, last Friday
night week—I met her with Mrs. Aknous—the complainant said, "you will have to go to to the Magistrate"—"Go to the Magistrate?" I Said—she said it was for her child—I told her I knowed nothing of it—she said, "You had better take and own it, and that will be the best way to decide it, and there will be no more bother about it"—I said, "You have nothing to do with me, and you know I have had no connection with you, sad that other men came to see you when I used to go there to work"—not a word was said about marriage by her on that occasion—she did not say anything when I said other men had had connection with her—Mr. Aknouss had gone on."
Q. Did the Magistrate make an order? A. Yes, 2s. a week and the expenses.
SARAH GREENHALF . I obtained a summons against the prisoner, and appeared at the police court on 6th Feb.—I came up from Dorchester in Sept. last—I had known the defendant there twelve months ago last Dec.; he left Dorchester in July, and I came in Sept—I came because he sent a letter down to me—I have not that letter—I burnt it the flight before I went(into the union—I do not know the day of the month that I wont into the union, but I had been three weeks in when I was confined—Mrs. Aknous was present when I burnt the letter, and James Jordan was present—I burnt that letter and others—I said to him, "I suppose you don't want to see those letters?" and he cast a smile, and I burnt them the aright before I went into the workhouse—I then lived in Exeter-street—after I came Up from the country I stopped one week at the defendant's lodging, And one week I went down to my aunt's—all the rest of the time I was at No. 9; Exeter-street—the defendant came to see me in Exeter-street I should think thirty or forty times—while I was in the workhouse Mary Aknous brought me tea and sugar, and a mince pie—the porter gave me a letter there—it came from the country, and was directed for me, and I had 2s.—before I went in I had a workbox that the defendant gave me—I gave it to him to take care of, and I gave him some clothes at the same time; Mrs. Aknous was present—I came out of the workhouse on 26th Jan, and I took out the summons against him on the 27th—after I had been to the police court about the summons I saw him, and took my clothes from him—Mrs. Aknous called for him—I saw him when she was present—she stopped, and saw him, and spoke to him—he went with me to my situation; while he was present Mrs. Aknous was present—when she first called on him it was the same night that I got the summons—I had a conversation with him in going home—he asked if I would marry him—he is the father of this child—I went to the workhouse because he said he could not support me.
Cross-examined. Q. Was any one present when he told you that? A. No—he sent a letter to me in the country, and that was burnt amongst the rest—I believe it was the night before I went in the Workhouse that I burnt the letters—going to the workhouse was a remarkable thing that I could not forget—I went on Saturday, and of course they were burnt on Friday night after tea—the back room on the first-floor was where I slept, and they were burnt in the front room—it is a good-sized room, and the defendant was present—he was sitting in a large chair—there was a large fire in the room—I burnt them myself—I took some out of a workbox and some out of a basket—I do not know how many there were—there were some from my friends, as well—I gave the defendant a workbox to take care of the same night—I put all my things up together—all my clothing
he took also—he took a bundle, a bonnet, and a workbox—it was a goodsized bundle—there was some baby-linen in it that I had been making—I am not allowed to take things in the workhouse—the bonnet was wrapped in one of his own silk handkerchiefs—he carried the bundle, the bonnet, the box, and the basket—he did not leave before 9 o'clock—he was not in the habit of having supper with me—he used to come after he had his own tea—he visited me thirty or forty times—every night—he used not to go in the room—he was on the stairs or in the passage—they would not let him come to the house, they made a noise about it—it was not in consequence of the noise they made that he did not go into any room, but I lodged with an old woman, and she did not like him to go in a room—when he came the interviews took place on the stairs and in the passage—he sometimes staid two hours—sometimes the old lady was out, but he did not go in the room, as I did not wish to get into any trouble—there was a land-lord—he is there now—he used to scold before the defendant came, and the landlady too—the landlord used to scold about the defendant's standing on the stairs, but, though he objected, the defendant came thirty or forty times—it was to me the landlord objected—I believe he did go in the bedroom the first time, while the old lady was out—that was on a Saturday evening; the second time he came I told him he could not go in, only she was gone out—I explained to him the reason the first time—he used to stand in the passage or on the stairs, sometimes for two hours—there was no light, he was standing in the dark—it was a lodging-house—there were six lodgers when I was there—there are three floors besides the garret, and two rooms on a floor—I was on the first-floor—the other lodgers were married people—the old lady is not here, she rented the room—I was living in the same room with her—she was my landlady—I paid rent to her and slept with her—Mrs. Aknous is married—I don't know where her husband is—I have seen him—he was out of employ when I was there—he ordinarily drove either a coach or a bus—I sometimes saw him once a day—Mrs. Aknous lodged on the same floor that I did—she was there when I went to lodge there—I did not know any of the other lodgers before I went there—I did not form acquaintance with them all—I only knew one more, Mrs. Marney—the passage led to the street-door; and our being there a couple of hours, the lodgers used to go in and out, and of course saw the defendant—they used to say "Good-night," nothing more—Mrs. Marney spoke to him once or twice—I stopped one week at the defendant's lodging—the first week I came to town, and the next week I went to my aunt at Enfield—his lodging was No. 33, Exeter-street—the same street that I was in—he sent for me—I do not know that my reason for lodging there, was because he lodged there—I did not wish to be near him—I stopped one week at his lodging—he gave up his lodging to me—I did not want him there—the landlady knew I was there—the defendant used to sleep with her son—the defendant gave up his bed to me—I do not know that there were many lodgers in that house—at the time I went to stop a week at his lodging I was in the family way by him—on the night of the day I took the summons out, I went to him—beside being at his lodging that week, I had been two or three or four times to see him in the evening—the landlady generally opened the door—her husband did once, and he knew whom I came for; and one of the lodgers, Mrs. Cox, did—she knew that I asked for the defendant—on the night of the day I took out the summons, I asked Mrs. Aknous to go and ask for the defendant—I saw her knock at the door—I do not know who opened the door—the defendant
came out directly, and Mrs. Aknous went away—I have not been before the Grand Jury—I was here yesterday—I saw the inspector, he said the trial was to be to-day—I could not see the policeman that had got the case—the policeman went for me last night; but I did not see him—on the night of the day I got the summons, the defendant offered to many me—I had taken a situation—I could not say anything about it—I told him I could not—I gave him the chance to be married before.
COURT. Q. What was the reason you did not go before the Grand Jury? A. I do not know; I appeared yesterday; I thought the case was to come on yesterday—the inspector told me they had done without me the day before—I did not come on Monday, my mistress was afraid of her child being left—the prisoner wrote a letter to my aunt—my aunt sent the letter on to me—when I came to London from my aunt's, the defendant had left London—I am in service now.
MARY AKNOUS . I live at No. 9, Exeter-street—I remember Sarah Greenhalf coming there about three months back—I know the defendant—I have seen him come there repeatedly—I cannot say how many times—about twenty times—he used generally to be in the passage or landing—he did not enter the rooms for a long while—I remember Sarah Greenhalf going in the workhouse—she went on a Saturday—before that I remember her burning some papers in my apartment, the first floor front room—the defendant was present—they appeared to be letters—she did not say anything when she burnt them, but kept burning them—the defendant was in my apartment when the things were being packed up the same night; and he took them away to take care of them whilst she was in the Union—she said that—I remember seeing her when she came out of the Union—I did not see the workbox brought back—it was brought back when I was not at home—it was given to me and some clothing.
Cross-examined. Q. You recollect the day she went into the workhouse? A. Yes, on Saturday—when the defendant came to the house, he was generally in the passage or landing—he did not enter the room for a long time after he came to the house—he never came into my room till he took the things away—I did not see him in her room, but I know he was there—I could hear a whispering—I do not know how often he might be there—it was in her room I heard the whispering—she told me he was coming there to tea—to have tea in her bedroom—I do not know that she told me that more than once—I do not know that he had tea there more than once—it might not be him—I heard a whispering—there was the old lady that she lodged with—I cannot tell what she would whisper with the old lady about.
Q. How long before she went in the Union were the letters burnt? A. On the Thursday, and she went into the Union on the Saturday—they appeared to be letters—I am sure it was on Thursday—I can read writing—they were letters, and she was burning them—she fetched the things while the defendant was there, and packed them up in my presence—I could not hear what passed between her and the defendant—I was standing at the table in the room—he was sitting in a chair beside the fire—it was a very large room—I could hear what she said—there was very little said, only her giving him the things and telling him to take care of her bonnet—the bonnet was packed up—he brought the handkerchief to tie it up; it seemed as if he brought it on purpose—it was a silk handkerchief—I think the things were in an apron—there was a parasol, a workbox, an umbrella, and a basket—they contained a great many things—he took them away from the house—I think it was about 10 o'clock when he took them—I think he
was there an hour and a half—this was in my room—my husband was not there—I cannot tell where my husband was, he would not tell me where he goes—he came home about 11 o'clock that night—this happened on Thursday, and she went into the Union on Saturday—I was not present when the things were brought back—when she came out of the workhouse I went to ask for him, and he went and fetched two bundles and the umbrella, and brought them to her in the street—he carried part nearly to where the lives, for her—I saw him bring the bundles—the workbox was brought to me afterwards when I was not in, and a basket and a bundle of clothing; they were brought the following week, after she came out of the workhouse—I had them to get washed—the workbox did not want washing—they all went together—I have been living there about six months—my husband is not in any employment at present—he is in the horse dealing—a commission man—I have known Sarah Greenhalf a very short time.
MR. POLAND. Q. Her room is on the same floor as yours? A. Yes, only the book room—I never saw the defendant in her room.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Nine Months.
OLD COURT.—Friday, March 3rd, 1854.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Baron POLLOCK; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Ald. COPELAND; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. Ald. MOON; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Williams and the First Jury.
PLEADED GUILTY .
418. JOHN DONLIN was again indicted for feloniously setting fire to ft dwelling house occupied by himself Stephen Halloran and others being therein.—2nd COUNT, setting fire to the house, with intent to defraud the Bun Fire-office.—3rd COUNT, to defraud Edward Bullock and another.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH BUBB . I am the wife of George Bubb, of No. 27, Thayer-street I know the prisoner by sight—he lived at No. 36, Thayer-street—I cannot say how long he lived there; I should say I recollect him there about two or three months—I remember a fire occurring at No. 36, on 17th Jan.—I went out on an errand that evening, about ten minutes or a quarter past 10 o'clock, and I saw the prisoner go into his house as I went by; he had nothing with him—about five minutes afterwards, at I came back, I heard a dreadful noise—I turned round to see what it was—it was like the report of a gun, and I saw the prisoner's shop in flames—the noise came from there, and as I saw the shop in flames 1 saw the prisoner come out of the private door of his house—there is a different door for the shop—I went up to him, and said, "Master, for God's sake go back to your house, for it is in flames!"—I did not know his name—he turned round and d——d the house, and away he went—he ran away up South-street, which is very nearly opposite where he lived; he went right away from the house—I saw the flames distinctly—I went home to my parents and told them what I had seen—before I went, I knocked at the private door of the prisoner's house, and then ran
rom that house to the next; I made some persons hear there, but By that time there was such a concourse of people came up that I could not tell you who opened the door—I afterwards went back and saw the home on fire, but I did not go very near in consequence of the crowd—when the prisoner left his house, he had a small bundle under his right arm.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What is your husband? A. An omnibus driver—I Live in lodgings, at No. 27, Thayer-street—the prisoner's house is near the corner of Marylebone-lane—I do not know whether he slept in the house—when 1 first passed the house I saw him go in, and in about five minutes I returned—I had been to Mr. Turnham's, the public house, for my supper beer—I heard the noise before 1 saw the prisoner come out of the house—there is a shop door and a private door—the shop window is not very large—the shutters were up—there are fiat railings, or a grating, over the kitchen window—the street door is close to the shop door—he was coming out at the private door—it was immediately I heard the noise that I saw him come out, about a minute or two after; it was the noise that made me turn round and look towards the shop—I saw the flames at the bottom of the shutters, and through, the fanlight of the window at the top of the shutters—he had got near the kerb when I spoke to him—I am quite confident of the words I said; I was not a great way from him when I said it—he would not allow me to go near him, because he moved as I said those words to him—he was not coming out of the house then, he was near the kerb—it was a very small bundle that he had with him—a fire engine came, not while I was there; I saw it there when I came back, and a fire escape too—I was not away more than five or ten minutes—I cannot tell how long it took to extinguish the fire—I know Mr. Turnham; he came out on my knocking at the door, and he saw the flames, I believe, as well as myself—he lives next door to the prisoner; it was there I went for the beer—he has not been talking to me about it since, I am sure of that.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was it there that you knocked, when you say you knocked next door? A. Yes; I was not more than two or three yards from the prisoner when I spoke to him—I am satisfied that he heard what I said, because he made me an answer—he turned round and law the flames up at the shop window—I saw the flames distinctly—I could not make any mistake between that and the gaslight or candlelight; there was no doubt at all about it.
GEORGE TURNHAM . I keep a public house in Thayer-street, next door to where the fire occurred. A little after 10 o'clock that night I heard a knocking next door, and ran out to see what it was, and saw the flames coming out from the shutters underneath; I could distinctly see that they were flames—as soon as I saw the flames, I and one or two others went and broke open the door to see what was the matter—we found the door fast—we broke it open, and found a lot of shavings all in flames—they were strewed about the shop—the shop had been used lately as a carpenter's and trunk maker's; the prisoner carried on that business—they were new shavings—when I went in, they were all in flames; there was an old carpenter's bench there, and the flames were coming up underneath that from the shavings—the flames were in different parts; they appeared just set alight to—I was there before it became one body of flame—I noticed the gas—the main pipe comes in just alongside the story post, or door post—there was a main cock there; that was turned on full—there was no other pipe—all the other pipe, the lead pipe, appeared to have been taken down, I mean all the gas fittings—the main cock was turned on full, and the gas was alight, and
protruding out, I should say, two or three feet—the flames came in contact with the doorpost—they were close to it; they had caught the doorpost, and the doorpost was in flames—I should say that the shavings had been set on fire in different parts; I do not think it could have happened from the gas burning from the main cock—the furthest patch of burning shavings was about three or four feet from the gas; there were other shavings about the shop—directly I saw what it was, I ran back and got some water, and we got a cork and put in the gas pipe and stopped it—I threw some water on the shavings, and turned the bench upside down and trampled on the shavings, before the firemen came—I could not turn the cock, so I got a cork, and the fire escape man put it in—the prisoner has lived there about two or three years.
Q. Did he say anything to you some time ago about insuring? A. There was something said about it—that was two or three days previous to the fire—he wanted me to purchase the lease of his house, that was how it came out—he came in and asked me if I liked to purchase the lease of his house—I said no, I did not want it—he pressed me very hard—he said the lease was lying at another neighbour's—he said if I would lend him 5l. or 10l. more, and get the lease away from Mr. Howland's, it would be very handy for the lease to be at my house for persons to come and look at it—he showed me his policy of insurance, and said it would make no difference to him if the house was burnt down; he had insured it—lie was vexed at my not buying the lease.
Cross-examined. Q. How far is the fire station where the engine is from this house? A. About five minutes' walk; there was no crowd when I arrived at the house—there was a female knocking at the door; I think it was Mrs. Bubb—she continued knocking when I went out—I did not see the prisoner that night; but he was about there all the evening—I went into the shop before the flames were extinguished, before the engine arrived—I suppose it was five or ten minutes before the engine arrived; it was not burning for that time, we had put it out—we put out part of it before the engine arrived; but a person came in with a candle and the gas caught alight again, and we had to put it out again, and to put a cork in—there was a flood of light from the main pipe—the shavings looked as if they had been lighted in different parts of the shop—the carpenter's bench was not a good deal burnt, we put it out too quick—all the windows were broken; the sashes were getting on nicely, if we had let them alone—the panes were broken by the fire, and the fire had reached the frames—there were sixteen or seventeen panes broken; I did not count them, I only speak from the appearance—I know they were broken by the fire, because I had seen them previously, about 12 o'clock in the daytime, and they were not broken then—I heard them breaking as the flames went up—I have known the prisoner ever since he has been there; I have not had any quarrels with him, more than if he has come into my place drunk I would not serve him—there was a bit of a quarrel about a bill—he came one day and asked me to lend him 3l., and he would bring it back next day—I lent it him; and when I asked him for it again, be told me be would pay it me when it suited him—I sent him in a bill for 3l. 16s. 8d., that was the 3l. I lent him, and 16s. 8d. for goods that he had had from my house—I did not accept 1l. 8s. in payment of that account—he used to bring me 10s. of a Saturday night, and said he would pay it off as he could, and I used to take it in that way—the story post I speak of was on the left hand side as you went in at the door; the gas pipe was close by the side of it, it was scorched; not only scorched, it was in flames—it was burnt a good bit; the fire-office was obliged to take it up
next day, and put a new one in—the prisoner used to live in the house—he did not come home that night—I know that, because I was afraid he would come back again, and I sat up all night in my own house, and there was a policeman in his house to watch whether he did come back—I do not know whether that policeman is here—I saw a policeman there—I went backwards and forwards to the house; I did not go to bed till 5 o'clock in the morning, when the house opened—it was about two or three days previous to the fire that I had this conversation with the prisoner; there was no one else present; it was in my parlour, about 11 o'clock in the day—the quarrel I speak of is the only quarrel we have had, except when he has been drunk, and I would not serve him—we had a few words about the money he borrowed; it was twelve months before he paid me—I said I would summons him—I never said I would serve him out—I swear that.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Had you any feeling against him? A. Not at all—I did not see him at all while the fire was burning; I had seen him about during the day, up to about 8 o'clock in the evening—I did not see him again till next day; he was not in custody then, I saw him walking up the street—the windows were not all broken when I first went in; they broke as the flames crept up and heated them—there is a door leading from the private passage of the house into the shop; I did not in the hurry notice whether that door was open or shut.
ROBERT HUTCHINS . I have the charge of a fire escape, in King-street, Baker-street. On Tuesday evening, 17th Jan., a little after 10 o'clock, I was called to the fire in Thayer-street; it was about two and a half or three minutes' run from the fire escape—the shop door had been broken open when I got there—I found the shop all in flames—there was a great quantity of shavings alight; they were partly burnt when I got there—there were some in one part, and some in another—the fire might have gone from one to the other—there might have been a good sized basket full of shavings, I mean those that were alight.
COURT. Q. Were there more shavings about the shop than is usually found in a carpenter's and joiner's shop? A. There had been a great quantity burnt—I am not in the habit of going into a carpenter's shop.
COURT to GEORGE TURNHAM. Q. When you first went into the shop, did you see more shavings than you usually see in a carpenter's shop such as the prisoner kept? A. Well, there was rather more—he scarcely did any business there; he had another place of business in James-street—there was more shavings than usual, considering the business—it was in such a condition as a carpenter's shop usually is.
MR. METCALFE to ROBERT HUTCHINS. Q. What was the state of the gas? A. The main tap was turned on full; that is, the cock of the main pipe—the other pipes were not there—the flame was coming out of the mouth of the main pipe, something like a yard, or a yard and a half; it was a very large body of flame; it did not touch anything; it came out into the middle of the shop, more opposite the door, close by the side of the door post—it might have caught the side of the door post as it went up; I cannot say, in the hurry of the moment, whether it did come in contact; I tried to pat it out as quickly as I possibly could—the door post was in flames—the flame came out from the pipe with a rush, in full tear—I went in to Mr. Turnham's house to borrow a screw wrench, to turn the cock off, but I could not do it, and I did it with a cork at last—I then went down into the front kitchen, and saw a man, a good sized girl, and some little children—they were in the kitchen of the house, underneath the shop.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see Mr. Turnham there when you arrived? A. In the nonplus of the moment I could not tell; there were several persons, I could not say whether he was there or not—there were a good many people there—there was a crowd round the house—I arrived there shortly after 10 o'clock—the street door was open—the flames were not extinguished when I got into the shop—there were persons in the shop trying to extinguish them—I do not belong to the fire engine, I belong to the fire escape—the engine was not used; it was brought there—there might have been a spark or two about the floor when it arrived—I did not see it arrive—I did not examine sufficiently to see whether the floor was burnt—the story post, and window, and all that, was burnt, scorched—the story post was burnt a good deal, and so was all under the facia, all under the window where the gas pipe runs from, I mean the woodwork—all the window frames were scorched, and all the glass was broken; I counted about thirty squares of glass broken—I did not stop after the fire was extinguished—I never visited the place afterwards—the story post was scorched very deeply, and so was the woodwork of the window—some of the persons that were down stairs came up and stood at the street door, and then went into the shop—the reason of my going down stairs was to see whether there was a tap down there to turn off the gas—the cock of the main pipe was just under the shop window—if the glass of the window had all fallen down, I dare say the flames would have come in contact with the shutters; but the shutters were on the outside of the glass—they could not have been burnt, except the shutter to the street door—the cock of the pipe I should say was not above two inches from the part of the pipe from which the flame came—the constable has it here—I might have been there altogether about a quarter of an hour—it was all quite out when I left—the inside of the door was burnt—it did not go through, it was scorched.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Do you mean that it was scorched, or was it charred or burnt? A. Scorched; it was not actually burnt, I think—a portion of the woodwork was burnt, both of the door and of the window.
JURY. Q. You say the shop was all in flames; was that from the gas pipe, or the shavings and gas together? A. The shavings and gas together; I partly put the shavings out myself.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you come sufficiently early to judge whether the flames were all over the shavings or not? A. No, I did not; the flames had gone too far to enable me to judge.
WILLIAM SMITH (policeman, D 204). I took the prisoner into custody—I found on him this pocket book, containing an agreement for a house in James-street, several cards, and a letter containing this policy—I produce the gas pipe; I unscrewed it from the main pipe under the shatter in the shop—the cork is still in it—the continuing pipes Appeared to have been unscrewed from it; there has not been any cutting.
Cross-examined. Q. What time did you take the prisoner? A. I think about 3 o'clock, on the Thursday, as the fire occurred on the Tuesday, is Barrett's-court, leading from Oxford-street into Wigmore-street.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you stop on the premises that night? A. I did not; the officer who did is not here.
WILLIAM JOHN BACK . I am a furrier, and live at No. 241, Regent-street. know the prisoner—I know that he lived at No. 36, Thayer-street—I insured the furniture and fixtures of that shop in the Sun Fire-office—I advised the prisoner to allow me to insure it, and he gave me permission to do so—I insured it for him—I have the receipt in my pocket—I went to
the shop on the Saturday previous to the fire—there was a carpenter's bench there; a great quantity of shavings, I should say about a sack; some strips of deal, and some boxes—I saw no furniture at that time—I did not go into any other part of the house except the shop—I had been to the house ft great many times before—I was there some four or five days before, when the brokers were in the house—there were more things there then than I saw on the Saturday.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe brokers generally take things away with them when they can, do not they? A. I believe so—the prisoner is a carpenter and trunk maker—he was in the habit of carrying on his business at this shop, and working there daily—I am not aware that he slept elsewhere; he slept in the house—he occupied rooms up stairs—I know that he had another shop in James-street, Oxford-street.
CHARLES FREETH . I am agent to the Sun Fire-office. This policy (produced) was issued from that office—I effected it, in consequence of the instructions of Mr. Back, on 15th Nov.—there is an attesting witness to it—I did not witness it—I should observe that the Sun Fire-office has nothing whatever to do with this prosecution—I do not believe the attesting witness is here; I do not know him—I am agent for the Sun Fire-office in Maryle bone—the policy was prepared and sent to me from the head office—(the attesting witness was directed to be sent for.)
EDWARD TREADWAY . I live at No. 13, Gee's-court, Oxford-street. On Tuesday, 17th Jan., the prisoner came to my place, and asked me for two or three men to come and move his things—I do jobs of that kind, and keep trucks—I and one man took two trucks, and went with the prisoner to No. 36, Thayer-street—the prisoner helped me down with part of the things; he helped me with a chest of drawers down one flight of stairs; they came from the top of the house—I took away the things he gave me in the trucks, and took them to my own place—I have not got a list of the things that were bought; I have a list of those I received, in part payment of my wages—I moved the things in three trucks; they were articles of furniture; then was a chest of drawers, and a good many other things—there was nothing left in the house except a few things that I considered were of no use—it was the top front room that we moved the things out of—it looked as if the things were put in there for storeage—I did not go into any other room except the shop—we placed the things there before putting them into the trucks—there were two carpenters' benches in the shop; they were-left; there was nothing else—none of the things were removed from the shop—I took the things to the front of my own shop—he gave me some of the things in payment, and some I took, in three boxes, to the Green Man and Still, in Oxford-street, where I left them with' the prisoner—the moving of the things occupied us close upon two hours—it was about a quarter past 2 o'clock when we finished; it was in the middle of the day.
ROBERT LAUDERDALE . I am a dealer in furniture, and live at No. 14, Gee's-court, Oxford-street. On Tuesday, 17th Jan., I bought some furniture of the prisoner—I think it must have been about 8 o'clock at night—they were two chests of drawers, a washing stand, a table, two fenders, a bedstead, a clothes horse, and other bedroom things.
WILLIAM JOHN BACK re-examined. I have heard the prisoner say that Mr. Bullock was his landlord—I do not know Mr. Bullock's Christian name—there are two brothers, I believe, in partnership; I think one of them is the landlord of the house.
two brothers, at 36, Thayer-street. I remember the fire—on that night I was down in the front kitchen—I heard a noise; I came up directly, and found the shavings in the shop all in a blaze—the shop door had not been broken open at that time—I got into the shop by the back parlour door—the fire was near the shop window when I first saw it; it was all in one place in the shavings—I could not say whether the gas was alight, for I ran down directly, and made the alarm to my father—the shavings were all in a blaze—my father, my two brothers, and my sisters, were with me in the kitchen—the youngest boy is two years old, and my sister is three years old—they were all in the kitchen immediately before I saw the fire—I had been there all day, and so had my father—my mother was out at the time; I had seen the prisoner there about 8 o'clock—I did not see him there after the fire occurred—he did not come back at all—I cannot say what part of the house he occupied besides the shop, he did not sleep in the house—he lived in the house before that time, and had rooms; but I do not know which.
Cross-examined. Q. You say he did not sleep in the house? A. Not that I am aware of; I cannot say that he did, I slept in the kitchen—Stephen Halloran is my father—he is not here—the first thing I heard was a noise in the shop, it was the noise of crackling or blazing; I went up directly—there was nobody in the shop, it was before the door had been opened—the fire was all in one place; I cannot say that I saw the flame from the gas pipe, I did not stay to look, I went down directly—the flame I saw was by the window, near the gas pipe; it had not got to the story post, it was all by the window—I did not look to see how the story post was—my father, and brothers, and sisters came up stairs directly—I opened the street door, went out into the street, and made the report—my father went into the shop.
COURT. Q. You went down into the kitchen, and told about the flames, I suppose? A. Yes; my father came up into the shop immediately, and helped to put it out—I left him in the shop, and went out into the street—I cannot say in my fright whether I found the street door open or shut—I left my father in the shop—I cannot say what he did—I cannot say exactly how long my father has lived there, it is some time—I have only been there three weeks, as I was out of a situation—I have been in the habit of going to the prisoner's shop during the day—I scarcely ever spoke to him—my father and family have been on friendly terms with him, and in the habit of going into his shop whenever they wished it—I was not in bed at the time this occurred—after going out into the street, I did not come back again to the house until it was all over; it was all out in a few minutes, but the crowd remained about the place for some time.
MR. METCALFE. Q. I suppose you went out into the street, and took the children with you? A. Yes; I took care of them till the fir was over, and then came back.
GEORGE HUNT . I am the attesting witness to this policy—(This being read, was an insurance for 50l. effeced on the goods, stock, and utensils of John Donlin, of No. 36, Thayer-street, Manchester-square, carpenter and packing case maker.)
WILLIAM CROWHURST, JUN . I live in a situation, at No. 20, St. George's-place, Hyde-park. My father deposited some things with the prisoner, at No. 36, Thayer-street; I have been there, and seen them there—I never saw the prisoner there, I have seen his wife there—I saw his wife in a bed-room there when the brokers were going over the house; they asked her
which was her room, and she showed them that room; it had a bed in it—the prisoner was not there—it was about a week or ten days before the fire.
WILLIAM CROWHURST, SEN . I deposited some goods at No. 36, Thayer-street—I have been to the house and seen the prisoner there—I took a room of the prisoner's wife to deposit the goods in, as I was going to France—I saw the prisoner when I took the goods there, and be assisted me in with them—I know that he slept there, for on the night previous to my departure for Boulogne, on 31st Dec., I went down about four or five o'clock in the morning, and knocked at his bedroom door, to ask for a light—he came to the door and handed me out a candle; he was then in his night-clothes, as if he had just got out of bed.
JURY. Q. Do you know how the shop was lighted? A. No; I do not.
MARGARET HALLORAN re-examined. The shop used to be lighted with gas when the prisoner occupied it, but the shop was closed at the time of the fire; he did not work in it then, or live in the house, not for some days before the fire—I cannot say up to what time the shop was lighted with gas; it was so for a week or a fortnight after I went there, and until the prisoner left the house, a few days before the fire—I cannot say whether there was a gasometer or not.
GEORGE TURNHAM re-examined. I have been in the shop—it used to be occupied as a fishmonger's, previous to the prisoner opening it as a trunk shop—he opened it about six weeks previous to the fire—there used to be two Argand burners, one in each window, at the time it was a fishmonger's—the prisoner altered the shop two or three times—sometimes he would put up a partition to part it off, to let it, and then take it down again—I do not know when the gas fittings were taken away; I never took any notice of them after it was used as a carpenter's shop, and cannot say whether there were any—when the prisoner was altering the shop, there used to be a light there, but whether it was gas or a candle I do not know.
WILLIAM SMITH re-examined. There was gas in the shop after the prisoner occupied it—I have seen the shop lighted up during his occupation of it after the fishmonger left—a pipe used to run up the side of the door, across the mantelpiece, where the burner was—I should say I saw the shop lighted with gas about a fortnight before the fire; I cannot say exactly to a day or two—there was no meter—the gas fittings were not taken away by the broker—part of the fittings were in the shop after the fire; some were melted by the fire—when I went into the shop, the bottom of the pipe that ran up by the side of the door was melted by the flame front the main tap; I saw that after I had taken the prisoner into custody—I think it was on the Saturday; it was two, three or four days after I took him—I went in to look for some papers, and then saw that part of the gas piping by the side of the door was melted; I should think it was about two feet from the main cock—the other part had been removed, I believe, by the men who were repairing the shop—I should think there was about six or seven inches of it remaining; it was fixed to the doorway—that was all the piping I saw remaining—I searched the remainder of the shavings that were in the shop, and in them I found the burner belonging to the pipe that led about the shop—it appeared to me to belong to it; it was a similar burner to that I had seen there before—the story post that has been spoken of, is on the left hand as you go into the shop—I saw the post; I have no part of it here.
GUILTY . Aged 33.—(The Jury stated their opinion that the prisoner had no intention of destroying the inmates.) DEATH RECORDED .
MR. MEW conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CRAMPTON . I live at Enfield-highway—I have a stable there. On Sunday afternoon, 19th Feb., between 3 and 4 o'clock, I saw then boys (the prisoners) standing against the window of the room where I was washing and cleaning myself—they could see me-—I could see the stable as I stood there—it adjoins the house; the window looks into the road—the boys stood looking at me all the time I was there, till I had done washing myself, and went into the next room—I saw nothing more of them at that time—about two minutes afterwards, my attention was attracted by hearing a plunge from my pony; my wife got up and went to the door; in consequence of what she said I went to the door, and saw my stable on fire—I went to the stable, and got my pony out as quick as I could, but it was burnt very much indeed—part of the stable was burnt down, the result of this fire.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You say in two minutes after the lads were looking in at your window, you saw the stable on fire? A. No; about two minutes afterwards I heard the pony—I went directly I heard the pony in two or three minutes: I saw smoke—when I went there, the pony was in the stable, standing with his head at the door, trying to get out; he could not get out till I untied him—the smoke was up at the corner of the stable, next the footpath—there is no window to the stable.
MR. MEW. Q. Can you see the footway from your house? A. Yes; I saw no other persons going by.
JURY. Q. Had you more than one stall in the stable? A. Only that one—there is no stable door, only an old sack hanging before the entry.
JAMES WARNER . I am a fishmonger, at Ponders End. On Sunday afternoon, 19th Feb., about 4 o'clock, I saw the two prisoners standing against the prosecutor's window for a short time, and then they moved from the window to the corner of the stable—I could not see what they were doing there; they had their backs to me—there were no other persons with them, or near the stable, that I saw—I was walking down the road; if any other persons had been there, I think I should have seen them—they stood at the corner of the stable for about half a minute, or it might be a minute, and then they ran away—after they had got a little way, I saw some smoke coming from the corner of the stable where they had I stood; it was very trifling at first, but as I walked along it increased, and I ran towards it, and gave the alarm of fire.
Cross-examined. Q. How far were you off when you first saw the boys looking in at the window of the beer shop? A. Near upon 100 yards—I was not above sixty yards from them when they were at the corner of the stable—I was walking towards the stable all the time.
SARAH GRANT . I am the wife of David Grant, of Old-road, Enfield highway. On Sunday afternoon, 19th Feb., between 3 and 4 o'clock, I saw the prisoners standing in the road against my palings—Baldwin struck two lucifer matches, one after the other, against the palings; it was between thirty and forty yards from Mr. Crampton's—Webb said, "Mind how you let it off;" that was before they commenced striking the match, when they stopped against the palings—they then went away in the direction of Mr. Crampton's beer shop—in about five minutes, I saw them return running—there was an alarm of fire; I went to the stable, and saw it partially burnt.
5 o'clock on the Sunday-afternoon, and about half an hour after, I took the prisoners into custody—I found them near where the fire took place—they lived close by—they were standing in the road, looking on, among other boys—they were within thirty yards of the stable.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe you told them that they were charged with setting fire to the place, and they denied it? A. Yes—Webb works in the neighbourhood.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Friday, March 3rd, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. MOON; and Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
MESSRS. CLARKSON and BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution; MR. CLARKSON having opened the case to the Jury, MR. LILLEY, who appeared for the prisoner, stated that he was unable to struggle with the facts, and that the prisoner would plead guilty to the charge. The COURT considered that the Jury, being charged with the case, and the prisoner having stated that he wished to plead guilty, the proper course would be for the Jury to find a verdict upon the prisoner's admission.
MR. CLARKSON requested that judgment might be postponed till the next Session, and stated that he had the authority of his clients for taking a course which would be advantageous to the prisoner, in the event of his giving full information regarding his accomplices. Judgment Respited.
MR. CONOLLY conducted the Prosecution.
(The prisoners, being foreigners, the evidence was explained to Squarraline by an Italian, and to Mattie by a German interpreter.)
HENRY DITTMAR . I keep the Angel and Crown, Sharp-Alley, Wellclose-square. On 12th Feb., about 11 o'clock at night, I was called up stair—there was a person there who had broken a wine glass—it was not one of the prisoners—he asked me the price of the glass; I said, "Sixpence;" he gave me 1s.—I went down, and brought up 6d. change—it is a large room, for refreshments—when I went up again, one of the females was complaining that one of the persons had spilled some spirits on her bonnet; I told her she should not kick up a row, I would give her money to buy another one—one man, an Italian, then struck me in the eye, and I went down to call for the police—(the man was locked up, and was afterwards discharged)—when I went to the door, Squarralino came, round; he had a large knife, and stabbed me in the right side—it was inside the room—I am quite sure he is the man; I knew him before—my nephew came to rescue me, and the prisoner Mattie was trying to hit me in the face—
he knocked my nephew down on the ground—I went down, and sent for a policeman.
Mattie. I was not in the house at all.
Cross-examined by MR. POLAND. Q. How many people were there in the room? A. There might be about twenty, but not thirty—they were mostly Italian?—I saw Squarralino taken; he was sitting down on the other side, and Mattie was sitting there—the other Italian gave me a black eye when I offered to pay for the female's bonnet, nothing having been done on my part—he was sitting alongside of the woman, but he got up before she complained about her bonnet—I had not spoken to him at all—while I was talking to her about her bonnet, Squarralino was sitting down—I had not spoken to him when he stabbed me—I knew him; he had used my house for a fortnight—I knew Mattie before, I do not know how long—I did not go down stairs directly I had the stab—there was no noise at all—I do not know how long Squarralino had been in the house, or whether he was sober, for I had not been up stairs at all—the policeman brought him back the same night, and showed him to me—I said he was the man—I do not know whether he was sober then, as I was lying down—nobody interfered when I was stabbed, seeing the knife.
COURT. Q. Have you known Mattie before? A. Three or four dap—I am sure he is the man, and that he tried to hit me in the face after I was stabbed by Squarralino.
Squarralino. If I had wished to have any dispute with the landlord, I had strength enough in my arms without using a knife.
MARTIN FRENDENSTEIN (through an Interpreter). I live at the Angel and Crown; Mr. Dittmar is my uncle—I was in the room, and saw Squarralino stab him—I am quite sure of that—I also saw Mattie throw my brother on the floor, and then the big one came and stabbed him twice—I did not see Mattie do anything to my uncle.
Cross-examined. Q. When did you go up stairs into this room? A. I was up stairs all the evening.
Squarralino. The whole of the prosecutors are agreed together against me.
MR. POLAND. Q. How many people were there? A. I cannot say, exactly; there might have been perhaps thirty—there was not a great disturbance—I do not recollect anything being spilled on a girl's bonnet, nor my uncle coming up a second time into the room and offering to pay for the bonnet—I saw an Italian give my uncle a black eye—it was not one of the prisoners—I know the prisoners; I had not seen Mattie before, but Squarralino had been there the Sunday night previous—I saw the prisoners leave the room, as they went down I went after them—nobody else left at that time, nor shortly afterwards—I found Squarralino about 12 o'clock on that night, in a lodging house in Wellclose-square, not far from the house—as he came out of the lodging house he met me in the square, and the policeman took him—afterwards, on the same night, I met Mattie in Wellclose-square, and told the police to take him in custody—Wellclose-square is close by the public house.
COURT. Q. Was Squarralino intoxicated? A. No: I cannot say whether he had been drinking—I do not know how long he had been in the house before I saw him stab my uncle—I saw nothing that should provoke him to do so.
room; ray brother was there—there were not many persons there in a stat of intoxication.
COURT. Q. Did Squarralino appear to be in liquor at all? A. No—I do not know what the disturbance was about—I did not see Squarralino strike my uncle.
ELIZABETH DITTMAR . I am the wife of Henry Dittmar—I am not English, but I understand English—I was is the bar when my husband came down with his hand to his eye, and said he was stabbed—the prisoners and another man came down after him; they came to the bar, Mattie was between the other two—he had a large knife in his hand, like this one (produced)—it does not belong to the house—my husband pointed to the two prisoners and said, "That is the man;" and then Mattie stabbed over the bar, but did not reach my husband, who was in my arms inside the bar—my mother pulled me back, we both fell against the shelf—I do not know whether he struck at me or my husband—I am sure Mattie is the man; I saw him go as far as the door—he was outside the door when Martin Frendenstein came down and said his uncle was stabbed by one of the men, and then Mattie came back and struck at him with a knife, but missed him, and the knife struck the metal of the counter—after that the prisoners went away, and I saw no more of them.
Cross-examined. Q. When Mattie went outside the house, where was Squarralino? A. He was first, but Mattie came back again—I knew Squarralino before—I hare only known Mattie about a couple of nights or so.
COURT. Q. Was there much noise up stairs? A. I did not hear any till after my husband said he was stabbed—I do not know what it was about, because I was in the bar.
JAMES CAMERON (police sergeant, H 23). On 21st Feb. I went with Martin Frendenstein to a foreign lodging house near Wellclose-square—we found Squarralino there—Frendenstein pointed him out to me, and I took him into custody—afterwards, about a quarter past 1 o'clock, I and another constable found Mattie within 200 yards of Wellclose-square—he resisted most violently, and with the assistance of another constable I succeeded in taking him into custody—the other constable is not here; but he told me he saw something thrown away, opposite the place where we took Mattie—I went there, and found the knife produced in the enclosure—Mattie heard the other constable tell me; but he could not have understood it—I found no knife on Squarralino.
Cross-examined. Q. Was Squarralino sober? A. He was—I cannot say whether he had been drinking—Mattie was perfectly sober also—I saw Dittmar lying on the sofa, wounded.
HENRY STUCKEY . I am a surgeon, of Wellclose-square—I attended Dittmar on 20th Feb.—he had received a punctured wound an inch and a half deep, on his right side, just above the right hip, on the haunch bone—there was danger to be feared from it—it was precisely such a wound as would be formed by this knife.
COURT. Q. How did it run, by the side of the bone? A. No, the point of the knife ran completely through the flesh, and entered to the depth of the eighth of an inch into the bone—it must have been done with great force—it slanted backwards towards the hip joint—if it had struck above the hip it would probably have been fatal.
with a bottle of liquor in their hands, and every now and then they was drinking—there was a female there with another Italian, dancing—I saw that there was a quarrel commencing, and I left there and went home—about an hour afterwards the landlady came with two policemen to the lodging where I was—the policeman asked the landlady if either of us was the man who had wounded her husband, and she said we were not—about a quarter of an hour afterwards, five or six policemen came and took me into custody.
HENRY DITTMAR (re-examined). I am quite sure that Squarralino is the man who struck me—I knew him before—it was not the man who hit me in the eye, he was still in the room—I and my nephews were not dancing with a bottle—I had not gone up stairs before that till I was called up.
Matties Defence. On the Monday night I left my ship in the London Docks, and was going towards the West India Docks to see my uncle—I had a companion with me; we went to and fro about London, and at last found ourselves in the house of the prosecutor; I asked my companion what he was going to do; he said, "We had better call in and see if my girl is here, and then we will amuse ourselves;" but we did not go into the house; after we had been walking a little time, three policemen took me into custody, and my companion ran away.
MR. POLAND, having been retained by the Sheriffs to watch the case on behalf of the prisoners, unshed to address the Jury. The COURT considered that as the prisoners had made their own defences, such a course was unusual; but under the present circumstances consented.
COURT to MARTIN FRENDENSTEIN. Q. When you saw him strike your uncle, did you see anything in his hand? A. Yes, a knife—it was like the one produced—I saw Mattie in the room up stairs he struck me at the bar, not up stairs. I saw him up stairs.
SQUARRALINO GUILTY . Aged 29.
MATTIE GUILTY . Aged 22.
Confined Twelve Months.
(There was another indictment against the prisoners for stabbing Caspar Frendenstein.)
MESSRS. METCALFE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS WILKINS . I live at No. 49, Alfred-street, Harrow-road, Paddington, and am town traveller and agent to Mr. Thomas Bushell, a spiced cordial manufacturer, of Hoxton—I have been about twenty weeks in his employ—I know the prisoner; he is a licensed victualler, and keeps the Coach and Horses at Kensington—I have been in the habit of supplying him with cordials on behalf of Mr. Bushell—at the latter end of Dec. I received from him an order for half a gallon of ale spice, to be sent to his brother at Ramsgate—they make ale hot, and then put the syrup in, and it makes a very nice drink—I sent it on 3rd Jan.; and on the 5th I called on the prisoner on my regular round, and told him I had sent it; he gave me the money for it, 6s., and I gave him a receipt; this is it (produced)—that was 5s. for the stuff and 1s. for the bottle—after that I received a letter from his brother, George Stupple, in consequence of which I sent two more gallons of ale spice to Ramsgate on the 10th—I do not know what train it went by—I wrote the bill on the 9th, in the evening, put a letter inside, and the porter posted it—the body of this bill (produced) is in my writing it is the one I put into the letter, it was not receipted—I saw the prisoner
on Thursday the 12th, and told him that I had sent the two gallons of ale spice and the bill for the whole; he said, "I am very glad of that, it will be a great deal off my mind, for I have quite sufficient to pay my own debts;" I said, "Then I shall be indebted to you 6s., I have not sufficient in my pocket to give it you now, but when the carman brings the peppermint, which will be to-morrow, I will send you the 6s. by the carman;" he said, "That will do very well;" he then gave me an order for half a gallon of ginger spruce—I did not go to my master's place on that evening, as I had had very severe walking, about thirty miles a day, and it wan severe weather, and I had a bad heel; I went there at 10 o'clock next morning—the carman was then gone his rounds to Kensington, and of course I could not send him the 6s.—on Thursday, 19th Jan., I met my master at the prisoner's house—I had not sent the 6s., because I had not had an opportunity—I think I had been to my master's very day after the 12th; my master gave me a holiday on the Saturday, to see if that would do my foot any good, but it was no better, and I was away until Thursday morning, the 19th; when I went to the prisoner's house, and said to him, "What charge have you got against me?" he said, "You know all about it;" I said, "I know nothing about it; I hear you say I have been receiving a bill of you for 1l. 5s. for goods which were sent to Ramsgate?—he said, "So you have," pulled out a file and pulled up some of the other bills, and held the bill up someway from me on the other side of the bar on the file—I was outside the bar, some distance from him—I said, "I will swear that that is not my handwriting; he then went into the parlour, and I saw no more of him—I had asked him to show me the bill—I left the house—I was to meet my master there—I have not received the 1l. 5s.—the receipt was not in my writing, or written by my authority—on the following Monday, I was given into custody for embezzling the 1l. 6s.—I was immediately discharged by the Magistrate; who said it was a very suspicious case, and he should detain the bill in case he should hear anything further of it—the prisoner said he had received the bill from his brother at Ramsgate, and had paid me at 10 o'clock on the morning of the 10th—the Magistrate said, "How can that be, when the letter was not posted till 8 o'clock on the 9th?"—the prisoner answered, "I did not mean to say that, I meant to say Wilkins brought it to me"—he said, "Wilkins brought me the bill"—I was then discharged directly—the prisoner was afterwards given into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. The prisoner keeps a public house at Kensington? A. Yes—I have been serving him with this stuff ever since the cold weather—I have been in this employment ever since the Season commenced—that is in Sept, when we leave off soda water, and begin ale spice—I had not been there eighteen months at that time—I have known the prisoner a long while—before I went to Mr. Bushell's I was at Mr. Anderson's soda water manufactory two years—I know something of the D division of police—I was eleven years a member of it—I left it because three women sold me by false swearing—I was not exactly dismissed the force, but my services were not any longer required—they said I had been taking money—a woman turned tail against me, because her husband was transported—the matter was investigated—our inspector immediately got me a situation in the soda water manufactory—I was summoned by the Commissioners to Guildhall, and was fined—that is four or five years ago—I fancy the prisoner is deaf—I never heard him say so—I have not had so much communication as that with him—he has pretty well understood what I said when I asked him for an order—I received this 6s. somewhere about 5th Jan., and paid it to my master with other money—I did not account to
him who I received it from, nor did I for the other money I paid him with it—I have no occasion—if I pay a couple of pounds, it is taken off my account—my master puts it on a slate—I never saw him write, nor have I ever read any of his writing while I have been in his service—I am perhaps indebted to him 4l.—we have not had a settlement yet—I never render any account of the customers' names—it is trusted to me—if a customer goes away or fails I should be at the loss, and should have to make it up, because my employer trusts no one—they are not his customers, they are mine—I got most of them myself—my master had a small business before I went—I deal with them as if they were my own—I occasionally look out the goods myself—Mr. Stupple's goods were sent by the carman—there is no entry of them, except in the delivery book of what the carman takes—if there is anything left it is put down to my account—I paid Mr. Bushell the 6s. paid me by the prisoner, with other money—I cannot say I paid him that identical 6s.
COURT. Q. Have you no book? A. No, I keep no memorandums for my own security—I see the account every night—I know he would not wrong me, nor I him—in the busy time I serve as much as 2l. 15s. in a week, and sometimes only 18s.—there is only me employed.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Do you not actually know that the two gallons of ale there went to Ramsgate? A. Not of my own knowledge—I can pledge myself that those two gallons left the establishment on the morning of 10th Jan.—I think it was on the 10th, I cannot confidently swear it—I was there on the 12th—I do not think I have denied being there on the 11th, 12th, or 13th—I recollect the dates well—I do not think I ever said I was not there on the 12 th—if I did I was in error—I did not make a snatch at the bill when the prisoner showed it to me, I was not near enough—I did not try to get possession of it, I take my oath of that—it must have been the Monday following, the 19th, that I went before the Magistrate.
Q. Then there were two 19th in the month? A. No, certainly not; it must have been 23rd Jan.—it is not a pleasant thing to recollect—the Magistrate said that it was a suspicious case—I was discharged, and nothing further passed—before the Magistrate said that, the prisoner said, "I received the bill from my brother at Ramsgate," and then the Magistrate said, "How can that be?"—I did not particularly notice anything in the prisoner's hearing when before the Magistrate—some people can hear at times quicker than others—I cannot say that I ever observed that he was deaf—when I first knew him he was a 2d. buss driver—I have been a gentleman, but I lost about 2,000l. in one year—on 11th or 12th Jan., my heel became nipped with frost—I walked about thirty miles a day during our busy time—that is not why I reside so near my master—I reside more in the centre of his customers—I have lived in Paddington for the last fifteen years—I have not been in the habit of writing in the prisoner's presence—I saw no woman in the bar when I was there on the 12 th—it must have been on the 12th, because his wife had gone over to a wedding, to give a woman away at Kensington Church—I did not see a charwoman in the bar—there was no one else in the bar during the whole time I was there—I never saw a customer there in my life—there was nobody but the wife there that I saw—I was there perhaps a quarter of an hour—I never made a practice of stopping long—this is my signature to my deposition (this being read, stated, "I was not in the prisoner's house on 11th, 12th, or 13th Jan.")
Q. Now after hearing that read, do you persist in your statement? A. I recollect that I was there on the 12th.
MR. METCALFE. Q. That is a mistake that you made before the Magistate?
A. Yes—on the 12th, when I was there, I saw the prisoner and his—I think that was the day—whether it was 19th Jan. or not when the receipt was shown to me, it was on a Thursday, and it was on the following Monday that I went before the Magistrate—if I pay my master 30s., he wipes it off the slate—he trusts me with it, he does not keep an account of the goods supplied to my orders—in our busy time the account amounts to from 27s. to 2l. a week—I was in the police eleven years, and was dismissed for receiving 3s. 6d., and the woman's husband was transported—it is contrary to the Orders of the police for a policeman to receive money—the inspector got me a situation directly—I did not go before the Commissioners.
COURT. Q. Why was the bill made out for 1l. 5s.? A. The whole amount was 1l. 6s., but his brother returned the bottle and basket, which we charged 1s. for—when I received the 6s. of the prisoner I did not account to him for the value of the basket, because I had not an opportunity—I had received the bottle and basket from the brother on the 7th—I sent the second lot of goods on the 12th—I had received back the basket and bottle then, but did not pay the prisoner, as I had not sufficient in my pocket—I said to him, "I am very glad of that; I have a great deal off my mind; I shall be indebted to you 6s."—I had got the basket and bottle then, but I was indebted to him 5s., the ale spice, and 1s., the basket, and bottle—I charged the brother 1l. 5s. because he had returned them.
COURT. Q. Are you quite sure that the prisoner said before the Magistrate "I meant that he brought the bill to met?" A. Yes, not "brought it," but "brought the bill"—I had, on that 12th, given him reason to suppose that he would not be called upon to pay it—I told him his brother wished it to be sent to him, and we were satisfied with giving his brother credit.
JOHN LEE . I am a greengrocer, of No. 133, High-street, Hoxton, and am employed by Mr. Bushell to carry out goods in my cart The prisoner lives at the Coach and Horses, Kensington—I called at his house on Friday, 13th Jan., and asked him if there were any orders for Mr. Bushell—he said "I have given orders for half a gallon of ginger spruce and half a gallon of peppermint to the traveller"—I told him I knew nothing about it; that we had not seen Wilkins since Tuesday night—he said, "Never mind anything about the spruce, I will take half a gallon of peppermint"—I delivered him some goods—as I was making out the bill he said, "I am not going to pay you for it now; I have paid the traveller 27s. 2d., and you be sure you tell Bushell of it"—I told him I hoped he would, because I had got to be answerable for the goods I had that day; I was either to take the goods back or the money—he said his wife should pay me 3s. 6d., and I made out a bill to that effect, and came away—when I got home I saw Wilkins—I went to the prisoner's house again the next week, Thursday, the 19th, I think it was—Wilkins came there after I got there—I was to meet Mr. Bushell and Wilkins there—we had a few words—Wilkins said, "What do you mean by this?"—the prisoner said, "Why, this bill;" that was a bill for 25s., which was on the file, and which he showed me—I looked at it at the same time that Wilkins did—Wilkins said it was a forgery—the prisoner said he knew he had paid it, and walked into the back parlour, and Wilkins went away, and said he would fetch witnesses to prove that it was not his handwriting—Wilkins and I were left in the bar—Mr. Bushell had not come in then—I waited till he came, but Wilkins did not—this bill (produced) is the one I saw.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know it is? A. By the heading, by the word "settled," and by the thick blots on it—I only saw it on the file—he first held it near, and then further off—I do not know whether Wilkins tried to get hold of it, as I had to get to the door to see that nothing was taken out of the cart—I saw it on the counter, and I saw it near the counter, but it was not taken off the file.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Wilkins did not try to get hold of the bill? A. Not that I saw; I did not go out of the house, I only went to the door—as far as I saw, no effort was made by Wilkins to get hold of the bill.
THOMAS BUSHELL . I am a spice and cordial manufacturer, of No. 3, Hemsworth-street, Hoxton Old Town. Wilkins has been in my service About twenty-one weeks, as traveller—sometimes he has to deliver goods, and occasionally to receive money—he has to make out all bills, and correspond with all parties—he has 200 customers to wait on every week; the prisoner is one—on Saturday, 31st Dec, I received a letter from him, requesting me to send half a gallon of spruce to his brother, at Ramsgate—I cannot see whether this produced is the letter (the witness was partially blind)—I executed the order on Tuesday, 3rd Jan.—I did not despatch the goods myself; Wilkins has a quarterly salary to discharge those duties—I sent the goods by my porter—I afterwards received the second order, and directed Wilkins to write to Mr. Stupple of Ramsgate, on the 9th, and to send the bill with the note—in consequence of something that was said to me, I went to see the prisoner at Kensington, on Saturday, the 14th, at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, but he was not at home—I went again on the following Thursday, the 19th, having made an appointment with Wilkins to meet him there—I saw the prisoner and his wife—he said Wilkins had been there, and attempted to tear the bill—I was going away—I was somewhat disappointed at not finding Wilkins stop to see me, and declare his innocence—I said to the prisoner, "When did you pay this bill?"—he said, "On 10th Jan."—I am positive he said the 10th, because of my reply—he showed me the bill on the file, and likewise another which was torn, but my sight is very bad—I said, "When did you pay it to Wilkins? what time in the morning?"—he said, "Between 10 and 11 o'clock"—I said, "Have you received any letter from your brother, at Ramsgate?"—he said, "No"—I said, "It is, very strange; your brother received these goods, and he sent no Answer"—I then said, "I had occasion to send Wilkins this way this morning; surely, he did not betray his trust, and keep this bill out of the letter"—he said, "That's it; we will hang the b—r!"—I said, "He does not lay in your hands; it must be me that must prosecute"—he then produced a bill on a file; he did not take it off—I cannot recognise it—on the following Sunday the prisoner came to my house, about 11 o'clock; he seemed to manifest great anger—he said Wilkins had told him he had received a great deal of money, or wages; that he, the prisoner, was going to let his house it Kensington, and he should like to take Wilkins's situation—I said, "That requires a great deal of consideration"—I gave Wilkins into custody myself—the prisoner told me he had paid Wilkins 1l. 1s. 2d.—Wilkins was very lame—he left my house on Tuesday, and generally used to return on Thursday—I did not see him till after the cart started on Friday morning.
Cross-examined. Q. Your sight is very defective; how is your hearing? A. The hearing of one ear is quite gone, and the other is very deficient—the prisoner seemed in anger, and talked very loudly—when he said it was 1l. 1s. 2d., I said, "You produced a bill of 1l. 5s., and another of 6s., if you reckon it up right, you will find it 1l.11s.;" he said it was 1l. 12s.—I said,
"Six and five is eleven"—I keep no debtor and creditor account; my customers are ready money—I put it down on a slate, and once in every day or two I deduct what Wilkins pays me—I can write, but I cannot see what I have written: I can see on a dark slate with chalk—I cannot say that I put down every evening what Wilkins pays me; sometimes it is three or four days before he pays me, sometimes every night, according as he receives his money.
Q. Do you know whether Wilkins paid you 6s. from the prisoner? A. Not representing that it came from the prisoner—the second time I went to the prisoner's house was 19th Jan.; I asked him about the payment of the money—I said, "Have you received any letter from your brother?"—I did not ask him if he had received any bill—he said Wilkins had presented the hill to him—this was on Thursday; it was on the following Sunday that he came to my house, about 11 o'clock—he seemed to have angry feelings, and I remonstrated with him—he only said he would take Wilkins into custody—he said that on each day, and on the 19th he said he would hang him—I am sure he told me he was going to let his own house; he said, "My house," and he repeated that he had paid it to Wilkins—he mentioned 1l. 7s. on the Sunday as the amount paid, but not on the 19th—I did not perceive any hesitation in his showing me the bill on the file.
MR. METCALFE. Q. You say Wilkins did not pay you 6s. from the prisoner; did he pay you any sum of 6s.? A. I cannot call to mind any exact sum: sometimes he would pay 4s., sometimes 2s. 6d., which was generally the lowest sum; but when he paid it he never specified that it was for the half-gallon of spice that went to Ramsgate.
COURT. Q. Did not you make him tell you who he had got the money from? A. Not at all times—I have not received payment for all the goods I sent out—I have never received the 1l. 5s., or any part of it—the 6s. was part of it—that had never been put to the prisoner's account, therefore it could not be deducted from it—it remained neutral.
GEORGE STUPPLE . I am landlord of the Ship Inn, Ramsgate; the prisoner is my brother—at the latter end of December, I received half a gallon of ale spice—I did not receive a bill with that—after that I sent am order for two gallons more, which I think I received on the 10th; I do not know the dates exactly—I received a bill by post; similar to this (produced)—it was in the same name, for the same goods, and the same amount, but I did not notice the date—I think I received it on the morning of the 10th—I think this is the letter (produced) which I received with the bill—this letter (produced) is in my writing, it bears date 10th January—I wrote it to my brother after I had received the goods—I enclosed it with the bill to my brother on the same day, the 10th—I posted it myself between 12 and 1 o'clock in the day.
COURT. Q. There are two posts from Ramsgate? A. Yes; the afternoon, post goes out at 49 minutes after 9 o'clock, and the morning at half past 10 o'clock—when I posted it, I should think it was too late for the morning post—the goods were supplied to me, and I was to pay for them—if my brother advanced the money I was to repay him.
MR. POLAND. Q. The bill was not receipted when you sent it? A. No.
RICHARD ELLIOTT (police-sergeant, T 240). On Wednesday, 25th Jan., I took the prisoner into custody—when the charge was being entered at the station he said he gave Wilkins 26s.—after hesitating a few minutes he said, "I do not see how you can prove this against me"—these two letters (produced) were delivered to me at the police court by Mr. Paynter, the Magistrate
—I do not know how he became possessed of them—the clerk said that they had been ordered to be impounded by Mr. Beadon, the Magistrate, on the Monday previous—this letter I found at the prisoner's house—(bill read: "Jan. 9th., 1854.—Mr. Stupple: Bought of T. Bushell, manufacturer of spice syrup for ale, porter, and stout, British cordials, &c., 2 gallons ale spice 1l., and half a gallon ale spice, 5s., 1l. 5s.; Settled, Thomas Wilkins"—the other had the same heading, and was as follows: "Half a gallon ale spice, 5s., basket and bottle, 1s., 6s.; Settled, Thomas Wilkins")—(Utters read: "No 3, Hemsworth-street, Hoxton Old-town, Monday night—Sir, I have taken the earliest opportunity of sending the ale spice, as I did net receive the bottle till 4 o'clock this afternoon; respecting the payment, it must rest entirely with your brother and yourself; likewise I will take the first opportunity of sending you a sample of my cordials, which, if you approve of, I should be most happy to supply you with. I remain, Sir, yours truly, Thomas Bushell"—"Ramsgate, 10th., 1854. Dear Brother, I received the half gallon of spice, and have since received two gallons, which you will see in the enclosed; but I find he is charging me at the rate of 10s. per gallon, and, as you are on the spot, I wish you would see the parties and explain it to them, as you told me it was 7s. 6d. per gallon, and the railway expenses together, makes it come heavy, as I paid 1s. for the half gallon; so if you will pay the amount of this at 7s. 6d. per gallon, I will remit you the amount by post; or if you have got any money to pay to Betsy, I will pay her, and so save the expense both ways; but please tell me at your earliest convenience how I shall act. The stuff I can do with very well; but if I have to pay 1s. per half gallon, it will take the shine off; so if you will see to this, and send me an answer at your earliest convenience, you will much oblige your affectionate Brother. G. Stupple, Ship Inn."
HENRY TWYMAN (policeman, D 80). I took Wilkins into custody—I was present before the Magistrate, and saw the bill for 1l. 5s. produced by the prisoner—the Magistrate impounded it—I should not like to swear to it, as I did not put a private mark on it.
MR. LILLEY called
HARRIET REDMAN . I am a charwoman. I know the prisoner; he keeps the Coach and Horses, at Kensington; he is rather deficient in hearing—I was there on the day the wedding took place, 12th Jan.—I from time to time char at the prisoner's house—I know Wilkins; I have seen him three times at the Coach and Horses, and at the trial—I saw him there on the day of the wedding; he was before the bar, but not in any one else's company—the prisoner was at home; I saw him speak to Wilkins, and saw him pay Wilkins about 1l., or it may be upwards, in silver money—I was not engaged that day in charring; I went to see Mrs. Stupple, to borrow 6d. of her, but she was not at home—I know where she was; she went to the wedding—I know that of my own knowledge.
Cross-examined by MR. METCALFE. Q. When did you recollect that it was on the 12th that the money passed; you did not recollect it before the Magistrate? A. No, but since then I have recollected it—when before the Magistrate I could not say within a week or so—I am sure it was more than 1l., and it was all in silver—I think it was 25s. or 26s. by the quantity of money put down—I cannot say whether it might have been 27s., I saw no halfpence—this was in front of the bar—Mr. Stupple was on one side of the bar, and Mr. Wilkins on the other—it was paid over the bar—I do not know the parties who were married on that day—I stood at the bar as Mr. Stupple said he expected his wife in—there was nobody else there—I did not notice anybody in the taproom—there was nobody in the bar but the
prisoner; be does not keep a potman—I saw nobody else in front of the bar—this was the first time I had seen Wilkins, the 12th—I saw him next at the police court—I have been at the Coach and Horses sometimes three, and sometimes four times a week, ever since the prisoner has kept it, which. is since just before Christmas—they were strangers to me when they came I am perfectly certain it was on the 12th—I was asked the question before the Magistrate, and I said I could not say exactly the day of the month—it was about the 20th that I was before the Magistrate, and yet I could not recollect whether it was a week or a fortnight before that I saw the money pass, and now I recollect perfectly.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Why is it you recollect it better now; did the wedding call it to your mind? A. Yes; when I was before the Magistrate I was asked the date on which this happened—it was with respect to the exact day that I could not tell—I recollected it afterwards, from other circumstances bringing it to my memory—it was in consequence of a day of my own, which I had to receive next day; I was to go to work on the 13th at another place—I recollected about the wedding, that assisted me in the date—I did not count the money.
COURT to THOMAS BUSHELL. Q. Did Wilkins ever speak to you about returning the 6s. to the prisoner? A. Not to me; he never asked my leave to return it; he never told me he had received it, nor did I know he had agreed to return it.
COURT to GEORGE STUPPLE. Q. Did you receive any answer to that letter of yours? A. No; when I received the bill I enclosed it to my brother; it was not receipted, as it is now.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Friday, March 4th, 1854.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald COPELAND; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt, Ald; and RUSSELL GURNET, Esq.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq., and the Third Jury.
BUSHBY PLEADED GUILTY.* Aged 15.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. METCALFE and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY WEBB . I am a detective officer of the City police—On 10th February, I was on duty by the Mansion-house, in Princes-street, about half-past three o'clock—I saw the prisoners standing at the comer of Mansion house-street, near the middle of the pavement, talking together, Taylor was smoking a cigar—I saw Bushby leave the other two, and step two or three steps on the kerb, where a lady was standing with a child in her arms—Shelly went and stood with his back against the wall, Taylor went and stood behind Bushby—I saw Bushby with his hand close to the lady's pocket, on the kerb—I went and stood in a doorway, about three yards distant on the right—I had not been there above a minute, before I saw Bushby start in a moment from the lady towards Cheapside—as he ran past me I caught hold of him by the collar—he had this coat (produced) on his right arm—when I seized him, he fell on his knees—I
did not see the other prisoners at that time—Michael Haydon came up at the moment, and I saw him pick up a purse, which was just inside the door of the shop where I was standing—I gave Bushby to another officer and went with Haydon in search of the other two prisoners—we went to the corner of the Bank, and there I saw Taylor coming from Lombard-street, towards Princes-street—Haydon took him, and gave him to me—I saw Shelly walking down Princes-street towards Moorgate-street, and Haydon took him.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. I believe at half past three o'clock that street is very much crowded? A. Very so—there were a great many busses about—Taylor was smoking part of a cigar—he was standing on the pavement talking to the other two—they were standing together—they seemed to be watching the lady—I had my eye on the lady—Bushby stood close to her right side—I lost sight of Taylor for eight or nine minutes—he was coming back.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. You had no difficulty in taking Shelly? A. No, he was walking down the street—I had not been in the Mansion-house—I do not know where Haydon was, he came up afterwards—I had not been with him previously—what I saw was all one transaction—when I stood in the doorway, Haydon came in a direction from Cheapside, and went towards where they were standing—he returned in a minute, and came to me—I took Bushby on the spot.
MICHAEL HAYDON . I am a detective officer, of the City Police—I was with Webb on Friday 10th Feb., about twenty minutes past 3 o'clock in the afternoon—I saw the three prisoners together in Princes-street, walking together in conversation—I saw them go to the right hand side of several ladies, who were passing along Princes-street—I saw Bushby walk to the right hand side of a lady, and Taylor and Shelly were close behind him—they then went a short distance, and Bushby stopped and spoke to the other two—shortly afterwards they all three went to the corner of Princes-street and Mansion-house street—I saw Bushby go by the side of the prosecutrix—Shelly placed himself a short distance from him, with his back to the wall, in Mansion-house street—Taylor stood close by the side of Bushby and the lady—as I passed, Shelly looked towards me, and appeared to recognize me—I passed on towards the European—I turned my head, and saw Bushby running—at that moment I saw Webb, and he stopped Bushby, who at that moment threw this purse in a doorway—I picked it up—I then went to the corner of Princes-street, and in eight or ten minutes I saw Taylor coming from the direction of Lombard-street—I took him, and told him the charge against him—he said I was mistaken—I handed him to Webb, and immediately after I saw Shelly going along with his coat collar up towards his face and his cap pulled over his eyes—I took him, and told him the charge—he said I was mistaken—he had before had his collar turned down and his cap up.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Had you ever seen Taylor before? A. I believe I have—I cannot speak positively—the purse was about fifty yards from where I saw the prisoners.
SARAH ANN MARRIOTT . I am single—I live in Bancroft's Alms-houses, Mile-end—I was at the corner of the Mansion-house on 10th Feb.—this purse was shown to me; it is mine—I had had it safe about five minutes before it was shown to me—I had missed it before the officer spoke to me—I saw Taylor, he stood in front of me before I missed my purse; he was there when I crossed—I was waiting for a bus—I came to him, not he to
me—I did not see him with the other—I do not know which way he went; he turned to my right hand—he pushed rudely past me—I said, "How you are pushing?"—he then went on, and in two or three minutes I found my purse was gone—I did not see Bushby at all—there were many people round waiting for an omnibus, I suppose, as I was.
TAYLOR— GUILTY.* Aged 16.— Confined Twelve Months.
SHELLY— NOT GUILTY .
424. JAMES DODD was indicted for unlawfully obtaining 5l. of Nicholas Love Jackson, 4l. 14s. of Henry Colwell, 9l. 1s. 2d. of John Beever and others, and 4l. of Thomas Drinkwater, by false pretences: to which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 44.— Judgment Respited.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Six Months.
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CHAPMAN . I keep a beer shop at Chingford, in Essex. On Sunday, 19th Feb., I had a gun in front of my bar—I saw it safe from 1 o'clock to half past 1—it was one I had borrowed the week previous, of James Birch—I missed it about half past 9 o'clock the same evening—I know the prisoner; he had been in my house more than once that day—I believe he passed through that part where the gun was—about half past 10 o'clock the same evening the gun was produced by the policeman.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How long had you known the prisoner? A. These ten years—I believe he has had an honest character—I had borrowed the gun.
THOMAS HOLDEN (policeman, N 346). Yesterday week I saw the prisoner in the evening, at Chingford Hatch—he had this gun with him—he was about 100 yards from Mr. Chapman—I stopped him, and asked him where he got the gun; he said it was given to him—I asked where he was going to take it; he said, "Home"—I asked him again, and he said, "Home"—I said I should take him to the station; he then said he was going to take it to Chapman's—I made inquiry, and found it had been taken that afternoon from Mr. Chapman—the prisoner then said he found it outside Mr. Chapman's gate.
Cross-examined. Q. Bo you know the prisoner? A. Yes, very well; he is a hard-working man, and has been for some time with the Rector—when I saw the prisoner, he was walking on—I saw the gun when I turned my light on—I asked him what he had got, and he said, "A stick"—I never heard that that is the name they give to guns—I saw it was not a stick—it was a gun.
NOT GUILTY .
mine—she remained there till the Sunday; she then asked me to change her a Scotch note—I said I could not, but I would get her change—she said I could only get it changed at one place; and if I could give her the 10s. 6d., she would leave me the note—my husband then called me, and I was away about three minutes—when I came down, she had gone with the note, the ten shillings, a handkerchief, and a decanter; and I never saw her till this day three weeks, when I saw her in Bermondsey; she was looking at some bills of apartments in windows—I am sure she is the same person—I followed her to the Old Kent-road, and gave her in charge—she offered me some duplicates of some rings, and she pulled her scarf from her person at the station, to give me; I refused to take it.
Prisoner. She said she had the handkerchief, which she lent mo as I had a sore throat. Witness. No, I did not.
JOHN DUNCAN (policeman, P 94). The last witness gave me the prisoner in charge for robbing her of 10s., a silk handkerchief, and a small decanter—the prisoner said "I know I owe you the money; I will pay you."
Prisoner. The prosecutrix said that she lent me the money. Witness. No, she did not; she said, "You robbed me of 10s."
Prisoner. I said "You lent me the money," and she said "I own I lent you the money, but you stole the handkerchief;" she is a great drinker; the handkerchief was not worth 2d.
Prisoners Defence (written). I solemnly declare the prosecutrix swears falsely against me about the old black handkerchief and a small veil; she went willingly to her drawer, and lent them to me; the veil was to bring her a quartern of gin; she lent me the money, and I expected some money, but being disappointed I absconded myself for some time; I offered her the shawl off my shoulders; I am a poor widow, and I beg for mercy.
COURT to ELIZABETH JANE CABLE. Q. How long did the prisoner take the lodging for? A. For eight weeks.
GUILTY . Aged 56.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY .—Aged 21.— Confined Six Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Two Months on each Indictment.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .** Aged 29.— Confined Twelve Months.
431. JAMES HADAWAY , embezzling, at Woolwich, the sums of 5s., 18s., and 9s. 1d.: also, 3s. 6d., 4s. 7 1/2 d., and 12s. 0 1/2 d.; also, 4l., the moneys of Robert Hughes, his master: to all of which he
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Four Months on each Indictment; each term to commence at the expiration of the former.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
TASKER PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 21.
HOAD PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 25.
ROBINSON PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 26. six months each.
(The Sergeant of the Regiment stated that the prisoners bore very good characters; that Tasker had been eight years in the Regiment, and Hoad and Robinson four years and a half each, and that they were just going abroad on service.)
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined Four Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined six Months.
(The Prevost Sergeant of Woolwich Garrison gave the prisoner a good character.)
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
ANN BOYLE . I am the wife of Michael Boyle, and reside at Woolwich. On 30th Jan. I went into a pawnbroker's, in Thomas-street, Woolwich—I pawned for 18s.—the money was handed to me—I observed the prisoner close to me—the money was laid on the counter, and there was a half sovereign amongst it—in my taking it up the half sovereign fell on the floor of the shop—I stooped to pick it up—the prisoner stooped, and I saw her pick up the half sovereign—I taxed her with having taken it—she went out of the shop—I followed her, and called a policeman, and gave her in charge for stealing a half sovereign—the policeman brought her back to the shop of the pawnbroker—he put his hand round her neck, and put his other hand to her mouth, to tell her to put it out—I went with her to the station house—I did not see her do anything there.
Prisoner. You dropped a shilling, and five or ten minutes afterwards you said you dropped a half sovereign; there were other persons nearer to you than I was; it was my wish to have a policeman.
Witness. I dropped a shilling, but I picked that up—the prisoner went out before me, and I followed her—there was one old lady near me; she never stooped.
JOHN WALKER . I am a policeman, at Woolwich—the prisoner was given into my charge, and I took her back to the pawnbrokers shop—the pawnbroker said, "It is in her mouth"—I saw her mouth in motion, and some hard substance in it—I took her throat and looked in her mouth, and there I saw a half sovereign, and three or four other persons saw it besides me—I put my finger in her mouth, and she swallowed the half sovereign—I have no doubt about it; I am sure she swallowed it—I noticed that she bad
a keeper ring on her finger, which I now produce—I took her to the station and when there she had not the ring on her finger, but she spat the ring out of her mouth and said, "There, that is the half sovereign."
COURT. Q. Did you see the ring on her finger after you saw the half sovereign in her mouth? A. Yes.
Prisoner. I was going to pawn the ring, and at the pawnbroker's I took a pin to pin my shawl, and put the ring in my mouth; I never saw the half sovereign.
ELIZABETH HOPKINS . I am married, and live at Woolwich—I was in the shop when the prisoner was brought back—I saw the officer open her mouth, and I saw a half sovereign in her mouth between her teeth—I afterwards heard a gurgling noise in her throat.
Prisoner. This woman was in the shop, and she staid there till the officer brought me back.
Witness. I was not in the shop till she was brought back.
Prisoner's Defence. I am innocent; I had my ring in my mouth, nothing else.
GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Two Months.
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES HARPER . I am in the service of Mr. Coles Child, a coal merchant, at East Greenwich—I am a trouncer—I have to pull the sacks back, and help to carry—the prisoner was in Mr. Child's service. On 26th Jan., I went with the prisoner; we left my master's premises between 10 and 11 o'clock—we had a wagon and four horses—we took about five bushels of forage; it was composed of chaff, beans, and oats; a kind of black oats; and in addition to that, the nosebags were full—we called at the Green Man, which is on the road to Bromley—we stopped there in going, and we stopped there when we returned in the afternoon; I should think about 2 o'clock—we then had the five bushels of forage in the sack—the sack had not been opened for taking out provender, from the time we received it in the morning till we came back at 2 o'clock to the Green Man—when we got there, I got up in the wagon, and threw the sack down to the prisoner—the wagoner and he filled the nosebags from the sack; I helped to hold them while the prisoner filled them—the four bags would hold about a bushel and a quarter—there was then about two bushels and a half left in the sack, and the sack was placed against the fence, near the stable yard—I placed it there—I buckled two nosebags on, one on each of two horses, and left the prisoner to buckle on his two, and I went in the taproom—I left the sack against the fence—the prisoner came in the taproom shortly after me—we remained there about an hour; we had a pot of beer, which the prisoner paid for—when we came out of the tap-room, the sack was thrown on the side of the wagon, with about a peck of forage in it—I took the whip to drive home, and the prisoner said, "Stop a bit;" and I saw the horse-keeper, or ostler, give the prisoner some coppers—I drove along towards home, and the prisoner said we would stop and have a pint of beer on the road—as I had gone before, I asked him for a penny, and he said he had no money; and when he said we would have a pint of beer, I said I supposed it was the money he got for the horses victuals; and he said, "Yes, it was"—I drove right away home—I did not stop and have any beer—I gave information to the next witness.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long have you been in Mr.
Child's employ? A. I cannot say; about two or three months—I had been previously in the employ of Mr. Bond, on the railway—I left him, because I did not get money enough—this is not the first time I have been in a court of justice; I have never been a witness before—I stood once in the dock in the other Court; I had twenty-one days—that was not in this gaol.
COURT. Q. Were you once in prison at Maidstone? A. I do not know where it was; I have been in prison twice, a great while ago.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was it a year ago? A. More than that; I have never been a year in gaol in my life—I have only been in prison twice—I will not swear that on one of those occasions I was not in prison a year.
Q. Were you not sentenced to five years' imprisonment, and let out after you had passed about two years in gaol? A. No, not as I know of.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. How long is it since you were in prison? A. I cannot say; it is more than one year—I was in the employ of a man hawking coals about the street, and a boy stole a bridle, and gave it me, and I did not know it was stolen, and I got into prison, and had twenty-one days; that was the last time—on the first occasion, I stole some money from my father in-law, and I had a week's imprisonment, and a flogging in and flogging out.
COURT. Q. How old are you? A. I shall be twenty-one on the 22nd of this month; I was between sixteen and seventeen when I was sentenced for stealing from my father-in-law, and I was about eighteen, I think, when I was imprisoned about the bridle.
JAMES LADD . I am in the service of Mr. Coles Child, as horse-keeper, and have been for ten years. The prisoner was his carman for six or seven years—I remember the wagon and horses going from my master's premises on 26th Jan.—they took out five bushels of provender in the sack, and the nosebags were full as well—the forage consisted of chaff, oats, and beans—I remember the wagon returning that day, and the last witness made some communication to me—the prisoner was given into custody in two or three days afterwards.
Cross-examined. Q. What time did the wagon come back? A. As near as I can tell, between 5 and 6 o'clock; the nosebags full and the bag full is what is ordinarily taken to feed the horses during the day.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN SAUDERS (policeman, R 178). In consequence of information, I went on Saturday, 28th Jan., to the Green Man public house, on the road to Bromley—I got there about 11 o'clock in the morning—I saw Grantham drive up there with a wagon, about half past 12 o'clock—the wagon was drawn by three horses—I saw him take a sack from the tail part of the wagon, containing about two bushels of forage—I saw him fill three nosebags, and then replace the sack in the tail part of the wagon again, with about a bushel of the forage left in it—I was in plain clothes—I was in the parlour, and could see what was going on in front—I remained in the house some few minutes after, and then went down the road towards Lewisham about 250 yards—I was standing there, and I saw Springett the ostler come down the road in the direction I had taken—I went into the Tiger's Head, to get out of his way—I remained there a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I then saw him return past the Tiger's Head towards the Green Man—I came out, and in about five minutes I saw the wagon driven away from the
Green Man by Grantham, and as it passed me I saw the sack was in the front part of the wagon, and apparently empty—I then went into the green Man, and called the ostler Springett out of the taproom—I said, "I am sure you have been receiving stolen property; I shall search your premises, and take you into custody"—I said it was horse provender, and he had just been receiving it—he said he had not—I went with him into the stable yard, and in a bin in a shed at the rear of the public house I found about a bushel of clover, black beans, and oats, which I have here—I said to him "This is what I expect you have been receiving from Mr. Coles Child's man"—he said, "I got it from a crib in front, about an hour ago"—I said "No, you could not have done that, for I have been here an hour and a half, and there has been only one crib used, and that was for hay"—he made no further reply—I took Grantham into custody about 4 o'clock the same day—I told him the charge, that he had been stealing the forage of the horses, the property of his master—he said he had done nothing of the kind—there was the sack in the wagon—I took him to Mr. Coles child's offices, and the sack was brought from the wagon—there was about a peck of forage in it—it was much smaller than what I had seen put into the wagon after the nosebags were filled—I had a sample in a handkerchief of what I had taken from the ostler, and I compared that with the sample of forage brought from the wagon—they appeared to me to be both the same Sort.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. When you saw the wagon driving from the Green Man, the sack appeared nearly empty? A. Yes—this is the sack which was in the wagon—what is in it now, is what was in it when the wagon got home—my means of observing it when it was apparently empty were as the wagon passed by—I did not take the sack from the wagon when it returned, it was brought by a lad from the wagon—I did not take the sack to the station, it was brought by Mr. Coles Child's horsekeeper to the office on the Monday—they had it from the Saturday till the Monday.
Q. When the sack was produced before the police Magistrate, were there not observations made that the quantity in the sack then was different to what it was when it was taken from the wagon, in Mr. Child's office? A. I do not remember that—I was present during the whole examination—there was no observation made, to my knowledge, that the sample produced on the second occasion was different to the sample produced on the first—the sample produced on the first occasion was much moister and darker than it was on the second occasion, because it had been a very wet day on the Saturday; and it had been kept in the dry all the time after that—I was about an hour and a half in the Green Man before the wagon drove up—I should say Grantham was at the Green Man baiting his horses for fifty minutes or an hour—I was not in the parlour all the time, I left and went down the road after I saw the nosebags filled and put to the horses' heads—I was down the road about ten minutes before I saw Springett walk down the road—I went into the Tiger's Head to avoid being seen—I went back to the Green Man in about twenty minutes—the crib to which Springett alluded is in front, at which horses are baited—there are several cribs that are used in front of the road—it is a sort of halfway house—it is a regular stopping house on the road—it is open day and night, and is a house at which a great many people stop—when I took Grantham into custody, he at once denied that he had been misappropriating his master's property.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. You have known Springett? A. Yes; I have been stationed in that neighbourhood about five or six months, the
last time—during all that time he has been in the some place—it may be five or six years since I was there before—he was not ostler there then—I could not see whether he went into a butcher's shop—I went into a public house—when I called him out of the taproom, I did not observe that he was eating, or see anything on the table—it was about twenty-five minutes, or half an hour, from the time I went away till I came back and called Springett out of the taproom—carts and wagons stop there, and the horses fed—I do not know whether they are very particular about the litter the make, it is a thing I do not know a great deal about—if there is any litter left in the crib, the ostler sweeps it away—when I called Springett out, I took him to the shed in the stable yard, which runs in a line with the left hand side of the house—the shed is at the back part of the yard, behind the house—the shed was open—I could not take on myself to say whether it has a door or not—there is a doorway, but whether there is a door I do not know—this was open in the bin—that that I took from the bin in the shed was not in the custody of the servants of Mr. Child, before it was produced before the Magistrate; but the other was—I do not recollect that Mr. Secker remarked on the difference in the two samples—there was not a dispute about the two parcels, whether they were not mixed—that which I produced, and which remained in my custody, is not dirty, as if it were sweepings—it did not look at the time as if it were dirty, and sweepings—it was good clean corn—I have never been in that business myself—I can tell beans from chaff, but I know nothing about oats, or the corn trade in general—I was standing in the road when the wagon went on its way to Greenwich—I do not know whether it went by there in the early part of the day.
JAMES LADD . I am horsekeeper to Mr. Child. On Saturday morning, 28th Jan., I remember Grantham leaving the yard with a wagon and three hones—I delivered to him about five bushels of forage in the sack, and the three nosebags, which were full—I delivered five bushels in the sack, because I did not know whether he was going to have three hones or four—we do not put them quite so much for three horses—five bushels is the quantity we put for four horses—I saw the wagon return in the afternoon, between 3 and 4 o'clock, as near as I can tell—I saw what quantity of forage the carman brought back; it was about a peck—this is the quantity, and this is the sack it was in—it is composed of chaff, oats, and beans—I have examined the forage found in the bin, and the forage that was brought home; I believe them to be Mr. Coles Child's property—I believe the beans in the two to be both one sample—I have compared the oats; they are black oats, and are both the same samples.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Is this the bag that was in the wagon? A. Yes; it is what we call a five bushel corn bag—five bushels of corn would fit in a smaller space than five bushels of this loose stuff—here is a hole in the bottom of the bag, it is quite rotten—it has been in this state some time—here is another hole in the side of it—after it was taken from the wagon it was placed in the station—Mr. Child employs a great many men—I do not know how many—he had two four-horse teams, and two two-horse teams—he does not keep all his wagons and horses in' the same stable—he has other carts, but no more horses—this is the usual forage that is given to horses about the country—I do not know that there is anything ticular in this, different from others—I do not know that there is anything different in this to what you find in any cribs or horse troughs in the kingdom.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. How long have you been horse
keeper to Mr. Coles Child? A. About eight years—I cannot tell how many sorts of black oats there are—black oats are commonly given to horses—the beans are common beans, I never heard any name for them—this chaff is red clover chaff—red clover chaff is commonly used to make up this mixture of forage—the wagon was to go to Bromley; it left the premises between 5 and 6 o'clock in the morning—I did not assist in harnessing the horses; it is the carman's place to do that—I gave five bushels of forage, besides the nosebags full—I did not measure the quantity that came back—between my master's establishment and Bromley it would be necessary to stop and bait; once going down, and once in coming back.
COLES CHILD . I am a coal merchant, and live at East Greenwich Grantham was in my employ for several years—I was in the office when the forage was brought in on that Saturday afternoon—I compared the forage produced by the constable with that produced from the wagon; in my judgment it was the same—I have no doubt of that—I examined separately the oats, the beans, and the chaff—they are the same sort, and mixed in the same proportions.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Were you before the Magistrate? A. Yes; there was a remark made that one appeared a little darker than the other—I examined that produced by the officer to see if there was any dust with it—there was none—on the second occasion, there was no dispute about the forage being put back in the wrong sample—I know nothing of the sort occurred—the samples were not more alike on the second occasion than they were on the first—in my judgment, they were in the same state.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. When it was remarked that one was a little darker than the other, what explanation was given? A. None whatever—I was asked if there was any difference, and I saw no difference whatever.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Were not these men admitted to bail? A. Yes; both of them.
JURY to JAMES LADD. Q. Was there any forage in the nosebags when they came home? A. No.
(Springett received a good character.)
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
MR. SCRIVEN conducted the Prosecution.
PHILI WALTER FROND . My father keeps the Windmill in the Lower-road, Deptford—on 29th Jan., the prisoner came for some rum—my mother served him—he paid in coppers—he then asked for some more rum, and tendered me half a crown—I rang it on the counter; my mother took it up in my presence, and put it down again immediately—I had not lost sight of it—I took it up, bent it in the detector very easily, and gave it back to the prisoner—he said he got it in change—he then went away—this (produced) resembles it, and I believe it to be the same—it is bent in the same way, and is of the same date.
and gave me half a crown—I gave it to my sister to give my father, to see if it was good, and gave the prisoner the change—as soon as he heard my father say "Try it," he ran out.
JOSIAH GODFREY VENNELL . I keep a tobacconist's shop, in Rotherhithe—on Sunday evening, 29th Jan., about a quarter to eight o'clock, the prisoner came with another soldier for some tobacco—my eldest daughter served him; I saw him give her half a crown; she gave it to my youngest daughter, who gave it to me—I had not lost sight of it—I thought it was not good; and returned it to my second daughter to give to my eldest daughter to try it—she tried it in the detector, in my presence, and said that it bent—the prisoner was not present at the time it was tried, he had just gone away with the change—there was another man with him; and as soon as he saw the half crown bent, he left in haste; so much so, that he fell out of the door—I went out after them with the half crown in my hand, and overtook the two soldiers together, and asked them to turn back with me; and said to the prisoner, "It is respecting your passing a bad half crown I wish you to return"—his companion, with an oath, objected—they returned some distance, and then stopped and endeavoured to get from me—I kept them both, called the police, and gave the prisoner in custody, with the half crown—the other soldier was allowed to go—this (produced) is it.
Prisoner. He stated at Greenwich that he was agitated at seeing two military men in his shop, and that he did not examine the half-crown; if so, how can he swear to it? Witness. I deny it—at the time the prisoner was taken, he put his hand into his skirt pocket behind, brought his arm forward, and threw something towards a hedge—I afterwards went with a policeman to that spot, and found this half crown (produced), and the same tobacco my daughter had served him with.
TIMOTHY SPARROW (policeman). I was on duty on 29th Jan., at Lower-road, Rotherhithe, and heard a cry of "Police!"—I went to the spot, and found Vennell holding the prisoner and another soldier—the prisoner was given into my custody—I took him to the station—Vennell gave me the half crown, and told me he saw the prisoner throw something away—the prisoner said nothing to that—I searched him, and then went with Vennell with a light—he pointed out the place, and I found half a crown, about three yards from the hedge, and the tobacco hanging in the hedge—I found on the prisoner 2s. 6d. in good money, but no tobacco.
Prisoners Defence. It is hard for a man to swear to tobacco when his name is not on the paper; there were plenty more soldiers on the road beside me.
GUILTY .* Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH PESTALL . My husband keeps a milkshop, in Kent-street, Borough. On a Wednesday morning in Jan, between 9 and 10 o'clock, the prisoner came for half a pint of sulk, and tendered me a crown; I put it into the detector, and found it was bad; it broke—I threw him the small piece, pushed him his mug, and he went away—I afterwards gave the crown to the policeman.
the name of Henry Knight—I have reason to believe that that is his true name—I produce the crown.
JAMES GIBLETT . I am in the service of Mr. Buckton, of No. 14, Castle-street, Leicester-square, who keeps a ham and beef shop. I recollect the prisoner coming there for half a pound of beef—he gave me half a crown; I told him it was bad—he said he had it in change—I gave him into custody, with the half crown.
JONATHAN BEARD (policeman, F 64). I received this half crown from Giblett, and took the prisoner—he gave the name of Knight, and said the half crown was given to him in change—he was remanded, and then discharged.
WILLIAM HENRY FREAME . I am a grocer, of Great George-street, Bermondsey. On Wednesday, 1st Feb., the prisoner came for some tea and sugar, which came to 3 1/2 d.—he gave me a counterfeit shilling—I detected it to be bad, and told him so; he only laughed—I gave him into custody, with the shilling—this (produced) is it.
RICHARD ROBBINS (policeman, M 167). I received a counterfeit shilling from Frame on Wednesday, 1st Feb., and took the prisoner—he gave the name of George Kempthorne,—he said lie had received it, and anybody was liable to take a bad shilling.
Prisoners Defence. It is very hard that after being discharged, the same piece should be brought against me again.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. SCRIVEN conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT TAYLOR . I keep a beer shop, in Bermondsey. On 3rd Feb. the prisoner came, and called for a pint of beer—he tendered me a shilling, which 1 put into the cash box, and gave him change—he stopped twenty minutes—I had some information, and put it apart—on the next night, Saturday, the 6th, he came again about the same time, for some beer, and gave me half a crown—I told him it was bad, and sent my son for a policeman—he wished me to give it him back, and not to bend it, and most likely he could get it changed, for he knew where he took it—I gave him in charge, with the half crown.
Prisoner's Defence. I did not know they were bad; I am very sorry it has happened.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN MARSH . I am the wife of William Marsh, a chandler, of the old Kent-road. On 13th Feb., about 7 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a loaf and some wood—they came to 7 1/4 d.—she gave me a shilling—I gave her 4 3/4 d. change, and she left—directly she was gone I discovered that the shilling was bad—I went after her, but could not find her—I wrapped it in a piece of paper, and laid it on the mantelpiece in the parlour—on the 18th the prisoner came again for some dripping, a loaf, and half an
ounce of tea, which came to 7 1/2 d., and gave me another bad shilling—I put it to my teeth, bent it, and said to my husband, "Hem is another bad shilling; this is the person who gave me the shilling on Wednesday"—the prisoner said she had not been in the shop before—she had been there frequently, and I am quite certain she is the person—I got the other shilling from the parlour shelf, and gave them both to my husband—the prisoner offered me 1s. afterwards, but I would not take it.
Prisoner. I did not say I had never been there before; I said I had not been there on Wednesday.
WILLIAM MARSH . I am the husband of the last witness—in consequence of something she told me on 15th Feb., I examined a shilling, and found It was bad—I found it wrapped up in paper—I wrapped it up again, and put it in the same place—I saw the prisoner in the shop again on the 18th, and in consequence of what my wife told me I went to the door—I saw the prisoner put down a shilling—my wife took it up, and said, "Marsh, here is another bad shilling"—I fetched a policeman, and the prisoner was given in charge—I laid the two shillings on the desk in the station house, and the sergeant gave me his penknife, and I marked them—the constable then took it up.
SARAH LEE . My husband keeps a chandler's shop in Pitt-street, Old Kent-road. On Saturday, 18th Feb., between 4 and 5 o'clock, the prisoner came, and I served her with two ounces of butter—she gave me a shilling, and I gave her change—directly after she left I found the shilling was bad, and sent a little boy after her—she returned with him, and gave me the change back, all but a halfpenny, which she said she would give me on another occasion—I gave her the shilling—she said she had taken it of her master for work, and she could get it changed directly—I am sure it was bad—I had no other shilling in the place.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not aware that it was bad.
GUILTY . Aged 34.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM STABLES . I am a gardener, of Denmark-hill On 30th Jan., about 6 o'clock in the evening, I saw the prisoners with a third party on Camberwell-green, looking into the shop windows, and watching people in and out—I watched, and saw them go towards Denniark-hill—Smith went into Mr. Parris's coffee and eating house—Sullivan remained on the other side of the way, and the third remained close outside the shop door—Smith came out in a few minutes, and joined Sullivan—I had then lost sight of the third party—I followed the prisoners to Cold Harbour-lane, about 200 yards—they went into the Sun and Doves—Sullivan called for a pot of beer, and tendered a shilling, which Mr. Insell took up—I followed them into the tap room, and Mr. Insell came, and said to Sullivan, "This is a bad shilling"—he said, "Oh, is it, master?" and immediately gave him another—I left, and went to Mr. Parris's—he followed close behind me—I went back to the Sun and Doves—the prisoners returned with us, and Smith was detained by Mr. Parris—Sullivan ran away, I ran after him—as he commenced
Tunning he stooped on the ground, as if to put something down, and he also seemed to throw something away—I followed him, and gave him into custody—I afterwards pointed out the place where he had stooped down to the officer, and saw him find a shilling at the exact spot—I know where Miss Boydell's sister lives, it is close to where I saw Sullivan throw something—it is at the corner of Wellington-street—the place has been pointed out to me by the constable where Miss Roberts picked up a counterfeit shilling—it was about two or three yards from there that I saw him throw something.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Who do you work for? A. I take jobs by the year—I am a master gardener—I work for several gentlemen—Mr. Allen, of No. 14, Brunswick-crescent, Cold Harbour-lane, is one—I never saw the prisoners before—I lost sight of the third man sear Mr. Parris's shop, it was dark; I had just returned from work in the Albany, road—I saw the prisoners pass Miss Boydell's—they ran at that corner—it is exactly opposite the Sun and Doves, and is 200 or 300 yards from Mr. Parris's.
JANE PARRIS . My father keeps an eating house, at Denmark-hill On 30th Jan. Smith came for a pennyworth of pudding, and gave me one shilling—I gave him the change—he left, and I put the shilling into the till; there was no other shilling there—Stables came three or four minutes afterwards, and I found the shilling was bad—I had not been to the till in the mean time—I gave the shilling to my father.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know the prisoners before? A. No—I gave him sixpence, threepence, and some halfpence—there was but one six-pence in the till, and one fourpenny piece—I had just put them in—my mother gave them to me as she was just going out—I had not served anybody before—I should have known Smith again if Stables had not come in—there was no gold in the till.
JOHN PARRIS . On 30th Jan. my daughter gave me a counterfeit shilling—I put it into my waistcoat pocket, and went up Cold Harbour-lane—I saw several men standing outside the Sun and Doves—Mr. Insell was there, his potman, several of his customers, and the prisoners—Sullivan said to Smith, "We will go this road"—I followed them up Wellington-street, took Smith, and gave him into custody.
WILLIAM INSELL . I keep the Sun and Doves, Cold Harbour-lane. On 30th Jan., a little after 6 o'clock, the prisoners came in one just after the other—Sullivan asked for a pot of porter, and gave me a shilling—I kept it in my hand, and gave him eightpence—I examined the shilling, found it was bad, and returned it to him—he gave me a good one—they both partook of the beer, and left.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know Smith before? A. No, neither of them.
ELIZABETH ROBERTS . I was staying with Miss Boydell, at No. 8, Denmark-terrace, on 30th Jan.—I was not her servant, but I stayed there that night—on Tuesday morning I unlocked the front garden gate, and found a piece of paper, containing four counterfeit shillings, and another paper, containing one counterfeit shilling—I kept them till next day, marked them, and gave them to the constable, and pointed out the place to him where I found them.
Cross-examined. Q. What is the garden gate made of? A. Wood, with openings between the rails—the parcel was two or three yards from the wall.
WILLIAM MARSHALL (policeman). On 30th Jan. I went towards the Sun and Doves, and saw Smith in Mr. Parris's custody, who gave me this counterfeit shilling, which I have kept ever since (produced)—I searched Smith, and found on him sixpence in silver, twopence in copper, and a tobacco box—I went with Stables to Wellington-street, surveyed the spot he pointed out, and found this counterfeit shilling (produced)—I have kept it separate—on lit Feb. I received from Miss Roberts five counterfeit shillings.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . These shillings uttered by Smith are counterfeit—these six shillings are also counterfeit—five of them are from the same mould as that uttered to Mr. Parris, and the remaining three are from one mould.
(The prisoners received good characters.)
SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 20.
SULLIVAN— GUILTY . Aged 18.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury, on account of their good characters.
Confined Four Months each.
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY . Aged 18.— Four Years Penal Servitude.
MR. LILLEY, for the prosecution, stated that the prisoner was convicted in Dec., 1853, of stealing from the person, and was sentenced to four years penal servitude, but escaped on 24 th Jan.)
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution, and MR. PAYNE the Defenses.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Russell Gurney, Esquire,
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS LEWIS BLAND . I am a collector, in the brewery of Messrs. Barclay and Perkins. On 10th Jan., I received an order from Mr. Gaman for a certain amount of copper—it is frequently the case that a man has a large quantity of copper which we cannot take away, and therefore we take a memorandum which it is my duty to deliver to Mr. Nash every Thursday—on 10th Jan., I received an order from Mr. Gaman for 30l.—on 12th Jan., an order from Mr. Huggeth for 15l., and on 17th Jan., one from Mr. Roberts for 50l.—I delivered them to Mr. Nash on the following Thursday.
MR. NASH. I am head clerk to Messrs. Barclay and Co.—I received from the last witness these three orders of 10th Jan., 12th Jan., and 19th Jan.—it was the prisoner's duty to take round these orders and receive the copper for them; and to account to—me every Thursday—when he received money on any of them, it was his duty to leave the order at the public house and bring the money to me—if he received a part of it, it was his duty to enter the part on the order and bring the order back; his producing the order to me would be a sort of guarantee that the order had not been paid—it was my duty to make an entry in this book when I received the notes—when I received the note from Mr. Bland, it was my duty to enter it in the prisoner's book and give it to him, and he would take it and make the
collection—supposing he did not receive the money till the next day of collecting, he would make an entry in his book of those which he had not received—on 19th Jan., here is in this book, "Gaman order, 30l., Huggett order, 15l.," in the prisoner's writing, and here is "Roberta's note" in my writing—by seeing this writing here I know that Roberta's note was delivered to the prisoner—on 25th Jan., I required the prisoner to make up this book and pay over to me what he had received, and he paid me over 230l.—neither of these three notes are in that amount—I asked him for the order notes that he had not collected, and he gave me them, and he gave me those three—I asked him if he had received the money for either of these; he said he had not—I asked him more particularly about one which is not in tins indictment, about which I had received some information—the prisoner was suspended, and the next day he was given into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. What are those copper order; are they a mode of eluding the Stamp Act? A. No, I would not say that they do not do that, but that is not the intention—I cannot say to what amount we cheat the Stamp Act in a year—it was the prisoner's duty to collect these—I did not expect the 30l. all in copper—I cannot answer whether this is done deliberately to avoid the Stamp Act—I cannot tell how long it has been done; it was before my being there—the prisoner has been in the employ four years—he had no other business to do—we keep a clerk solely to receive copper—we receive more than 150l. in actual copper in a year—I should think he had to go to perhaps 200 public houses; perhaps to twelve or fourteen in a day—he is not expected to take anything for the good of the house; there is nothing allowed him for that—I know that he has a wife and eight children.
(MR. BALLANTINE here stated, that it was not his intention to struggle with the facts of the case.)
GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined Twelve Months.
(The prisoner was again indicted for embezzling 83l. of Arthur Kitt Barclay and others; on which no evidence was offered.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
PLEADED GUILTY .— Confined Three Months.
MR. RYLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES OLIVER . I am a porter at the Oxford Arms Inn, in Warwick-lane. On Sunday night, 29th Jan., I was at No. 5, Bermondsey-street, about 11 o'clock at night—my brother was with me—we had had a glass or two of ale together—I was sober—I was going to take a Hackney cab—I was standing at the door of it, on the off side, and some one came behind me and bonnetted my hat over my eyes, and struck me a severe blow, which knocked me down in the middle of the street—I endeavoured to get up, and the prisoner hit me several times in the face with his fist; he cut my lip, and it bled a good deal—I had a watch with me, and I felt a pull at my watch; the prisoner took my watch out of my pocket, and ran away—the watch was hanging down by the guard—he did not get it; I called out—he ran away, and my brother pursued him—he was overtaken
I had never seen him before; he was never out of my sight—I saw my brother overtake him, and lay hold of him—there was gas light—my brother overtook him, I should say about 100 yards from me, at the corner of Bermondsey-street—I had not had anything to say to him before he bonnetted me.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Where had you been? A. At a public house, No. 5, Bermondsey-street—I had been there about two hours—my brother was with me—we had some tea, and a glass of ale or two; nothing more—no spirits—I was perfectly sober—there were three more persons came out of the house, with me and my brother—the other persons were not at the cab door when the prisoner struck me—the cab was standing at the door—the other persons were not at the cab door; they were in the house—there were only my brother, myself, and the cabman, by the cab door, when I was struck—there were persons passing up and down—there was no one that I knew close to the door of the cab, when the person came up and struck me.
MR. RYLAND. Q. Did you see any persons standing near the cab at the time you were struck? A. No.
JOHN OLIVER . I was with my brother on Sunday evening, 29th Jan,—I came out of the public house in Bermondsey-street, about 11 o'clock at night—after my brother came out I saw the prisoner knock him down—he hit him on the back part of his head, and then on the mouth, and he bled very much—he hit him three or four times—my brother cried out—the prisoner ran away, and I ran after him—I hallooed out, "Stop thief!" and the policeman stopped him—the person he stopped was the person who struck my brother—I did not lose sight of him.
Cross-examined. Q. What were you about while he struck your brother? A. He was in the street, and I was on the pavement—I was three or four yards away from my brother—I ran round the cab when I saw the prisoner strike him—it was a patent safety cab—there was a female and a man came out of the house with me and my brother, but they did not belong to us—we were a couple of hours in the public house—we were sent for to come over—it was at a friend of ours—we had some tea, and after that some ale, no spirits—there were four of us, and the landlord, who drunk—we went there between 8 and 9 o'clock—I paid for some that was drank, and my brother paid for some—the landlord did not treat us—I do not know whether anybody else paid—I do not know how much I paid, about 8d.—I cannot tell how much my brother paid—when we came out of the public house the cab was standing at the door—there was not an altercation between some persons and my brother before he was struck—there were not some words between him and some persons standing in the street before he was struck—when he was struck I was standing on the foot pavement, and he was in the highway, on the other side of the cab—the cab was between me and my brother when he was struck—when the person who struck my brother ran away, there were no persons ran but the prisoner at the bar—my brother ran in chase—the cowman did not run—the man who came out of the house with the woman did not run—I do not know where he was—he came out of the house, but I do not know where he was—I have not seen him since—my brother was very much knocked about—the first blow brought him to the ground—after the man had struck him, I saw his watch hanging dangling by the chain.
"Stop thief!"—I saw the prisoner running away from me—I ran after him and caught him—I asked him what he had been at, he said, "Nothing"—when I took him back, the prosecutor charged him with assaulting him with intent to rob him of his watch—I told the prisoner I should take him on that charge—he said, "It was not me; I have done nothing."
Cross-examined. Q. How far from where the cab was standing did you take the prisoner? A. About four or five rods—about twenty or thirty yards; it was just as he was turning the corner of the street—I did not see a man and woman when I took the prisoner in custody; there were several persons standing outside the public house—I did see a woman; I did not see a man running away at the time I saw the prisoner.
MR. RYLAND. Q. You heard a cry of stop thief? A. Yes; it was a loud one—persons generally do collect when they hear a cry of stop thief.
The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here ready as follows—"I saw the prosecutor having an altercation with some one; as I was passing they said, 'That is one of them;' the prosecutor, I thought, was about to strike me; I put up my hand and just tipped his lip, and ran away."
The prisoner received a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
ADJOURNMENT TO MONDAY, 3RD APRIL.