CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
CHALLIS, MAYOR. NINTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—an obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, July 4th, 1853.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. CARDEN; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Eighteen Months.
GUILTY. Aged 23.— Judgment respited.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Transported for Seven Years.
JOHN FREDERICK FORDHAM . I live at Road-green, near Royston, in Hertfordshire. On 20th June, about 11 o'clock, I was in Fenchurch-street, and felt something behind me—I turned round, and saw the prisoner doubling my handkerchief up in his hand—I collared him, took it from him, and took him to the station.
Prisoner's Defence. I saw the handkerchief drop from the gentleman's pocket; I picked it up, and was going to give it to him, when he turned round and caught hold of me.
GUILTY .** Aged 27.— Confined Twelve Months.
ANN CARTER . I am a widow, and keep the Horns public house, in Petticoat-lane. The prisoner was in my service twice—she left me, and came back about two months afterwards—she was the only servant I had—I had a purse with eleven new sovereigns in it, locked up in a little box, which I kept in a leather trunk, also locked, which was kept in my bedroom, which communicated with the prisoner's bedroom with folding doors—it was sometimes in her room and sometimes in mine—I kept the keys—I was saving the sovereigns to pay for my license, which was 13l.—I had seen the eleven sovereigns safe four or five weeks before—the prisoner left my service on a Thursday, about four weeks ago—I was not aware of her going till after she left—I then went to the box and missed my purse and sovereigns, and also four or five foreign coins—the box bad not been broken open, and I had had the key all the time in my pocket, on a ring with my other keys—I' am sure I did not take the money out myself—it was a bead purse, which I had had for twenty years—two orphan children who I keep, slept in the room—a week or two before the prisoner left I told her she must look out for another situation, as she kept company with a married man—I received some information, in consequence of which I said to the prisoner, "Ellen, are you going?" she said, "Yes; that man's wife follows me so, and brings a crowd about the house, and says she will have my life"—I asked her to stop, and she said she would stop till I got another servant—that was on the Thursday night, about two hours before she left—I did not see her go, I suppose she took her box out at the side door—a woman named Connor, a sister-in-law of her's, used to come backwards and forwards—I charged Connor with taking the box away, not the money—they were both put to the bar before the Magistrate, and Connor was discharged because there was no case against her—I charged her with taking the prisoner's box—it was just getting dark in the evening when I asked the prisoner to stop till I got another maid.
Prisoner. She gave me warning to leave on Thursday, and asked me what was in my box, and said she would burn it; I said "I will take it away," and I got my sister to take it. Witness. I said that if she wore such a bonnet I would burn it—she had a white drawn silk bonnet, full of flowers, and a green parasol—I said they were not fit for a public house, and that I would not wear them myself, they were too smart.
Prisoner. I got my sister-in-law to take my box to a house where I used to lodge when I was out of place; Mrs. Carter brought up a dress against me which she had bought for me. Witness. I bought it for her out of her wages, and she took it to the dressmaker's—I have made no charge against her about it, but I think I am entitled to the things, a poor woman like me—I never parted with my keys to my knowledge, unless it was while I was changing my dress.
TIMOTHY DONOGHUE . I am a labourer, of No. 1, Little Love-court, Petticoat-lane. I sometimes frequent Mrs. Carter's house—I remember the prisoner as a servant there—on Friday, 10th June, I was passing, and saw Mrs.
Carter—I went with her to look for the prisoner—I did not see her that day hut on the Sunday following I saw her at a dressmaker's in Petticoat-lane—seven or eight people were in the room—I knew pretty well all of them—Ellen Connor was not there at that time—I told the prisoner that her mistress had told me she had stolen her money—she made no answer at that time, but moved in among the people, and I saw her drop her parse out of her hand on to a chair close by; I picked it up, and asked her if that was not her mistress's purse; she said, "No," but told me to conceal it, and not give it to Mrs. Carter, and some of the people there told me the same—I said I should show it to Mrs. Carter, and went for her—I saw silver and copper in the purse, but I did not count it—I saw no gold in it—I gave it to Mrs. Carter in the same state as I picked it up—this (produced) is it—the expression the prisoner used was, "Do not you show the purse to Mrs. Carter. "
Prisoner. I bought the purse in the lane, and you took it out of my hand; I never made you that answer. Witness. You did—there is no witness here who saw me pick it up off the chair.
THOMAS DUNLAYSON (City policeman, 68). On Sunday, 12th June, about half past 1 o'clock, Mrs. Carter gave the prisoner into my custody at No. 123, Petticoat-lane, a mantle maker's—Mrs. Carter handed me this purse, and charged the prisoner with stealing it—she never uttered a word, and was taken to the station—this purse is in the same state as when I received it, except that 1s. 10d. has been expended from it for refreshment for the prisoner, I do not know by whose orders—I think the superintendent ordered 1s. to be taken out—there is 7 1/2 d. in it now—when I received it it contained 1s., a 4d.-piece, 1d., and two farthings.
Prisoner's Defence. She never had that purse, it is my own; I bought it on Sunday morning in Petticoat-lane; I never took anything belonging to her; I went three times to her, and she would' not give me a character; she gave me warning, and I left.
ANN CARTER re-examined. No duplicate keys have been found which will open my box—I know the purse, because it was never finished; there was no tassel or clasp to it—the pattern on it is flowers—I never saw an unfinished one to be sold.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
JAMES VALENTINE ALLEN . I am the prisoner's husband; we live at No. 9, New Cavendish-street; I am coachman to Mr. Chapman. On Saturday afternoon, 4th June, about 20 minutes past 4 o'clock, the prisoner was brought home to me very drunk—I got her up stairs as well as I could, and she was lying on the floor—I could make her understand nothing—I went out, and returned a little before 12 o'clock at night—she was then lying on the bed, and had been sick—she was not then so drunk as she had been, but was not sober—I attempted to make the bed, and shifted her foot on one side to make room for me to lie down, upon which she got out of bed, took the poker, and hit me on the head as I was pulling my coat off—I was taken to a surgeon, who dressed the wound, but as it would not leave off bleeding, I was taken to the Middlesex Hospital.
Prisoner. He has made a false oath; he struck me first with his fist, and at the lighted candle to my nostrils. Witness. I did not.
JAMES DOHERTY (policeman, D 51). I was called, and met the prosecutor outside his house, bleeding very much; his face was covered with blood—I went up into the room to the prisoner—she was sober, but I could see that she had been drinking—she was lying on the bed in her clothes—I told her she had better get up, put on her bonnet and shawl, and come with me—she said she would see me d——d first—I could not get her out of the room, she kept shutting the door as I got her to it—I fetched another constable, and we got her to the station—the inspector said, "You might have killed him with that blow, and then you would be hung;" she said, "I should be satisfied to be hung, if he was dead first. "
WILLIAM HENRY FLOWER . I am one of the house surgeons at Westminster Hospital. The prosecutor was brought there about half past 2 o'clock in the morning with a contused wound, an inch and a half or two inches long—it went to the bone—it must have been a blow of considerable violence—it could be done with a poker—it bled very much.
Prisoner's Defence. He came home tipsy about half past 12 o'clock, and struck me with his fist, and tried to put the glare of the lighted candle up my nostrils, saying, "I will do for you."
GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. Aged 41.— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY . Aged 44.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutrix.— Confined Three Months.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK LOUIS ROSSE . I am a watchmaker, of No. 4, Newman-street, and am in partnership with Sigismund Lucien Imer. I first became acquainted with the prisoner in Aug. last, when he became our clerk at a salary of 1l. per week, and his expenses paid—it was part of his duty if I sent him to receive money for articles sold, to bring me the money the same day—if he has received 19l. 2s. from Mr. Simmons, of Newington, he has not paid me—I sent him for the money, and it was his duty to pay me the whole sum; he paid me 11l. 2s. only—this receipt (produced) is in his writing.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you give information to the police, or take means to give him into custody? A. Yes; Mr. Russell came to me, and I told him to take him into custody—he sent me a bill in Jan. to settle this money, which I negotiated—I took his bill for 11l. 2s.—the acceptor was John Mackin; the prisoner was the drawer—I obtained money on it, and it was paid on 7th Jan.—a letter was sent to me, telling me how much he had kept, admitting that he had received it, and giving me a bill for the balance—here is on this invoice, "Received, 30th Dec, 19l. 2s."—I have another bill at home for 25l.; he gave me that to be discounted before this took place in Dec.—I have not discounted it—I sent it to Switzerland—I am not bringing an action upon it—it is due—I know nothing about whether my attorney has brought an action upon it; I gave it to Mr. Brendall, my attorney—I have not returned it to the prisoner—I gave it Mr. Brendall to get the money if he could—I do not know that he is here; his clerk is—I do not know that he sued a person upon it, and then took him into custody on execution.
MR. PAYNE. Q. When was it the prisoner's duty to pay the money to you? A. On the last day of December—he came home and told me that 11l. 2s. was all he had received, and Mr. Simmons would pay the 8l. on some other watches—he first told me about having received the whole in a letter after he left—I charge him altogether with stealing twenty-one watches.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see him afterwards? A. Yes; he did not tell me he had not paid it to his master—I did not speak to him about it, as I had not heard that he had not paid it.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear of the embezzlement from the prosecutor? A. Yes; and likewise of the charge of the watches—I told him I knew where to find the prisoner, and asked him to go with me and give him into custody, but he declined to go.
MR. PAYNE. Q. But he told you to take him, if you saw him in the streets? A. Yes
COURT to MR. ROSSE. Q. You received some money on the bill? A. Yes; 11l. 2s.—the prisoner sent me that bill on 11th Feb. in a letter, written in French.
NOT GUILTY .
770. HENRY PUREY was again indicted for stealing I watch, value 30s.; the goods of Sigismund Lucien Imer and another his masters; also stealing, within six months, 2 other watches, value 7l.; and within six months, 20 other watches, value 40l.; the goods of his said masters.
MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK LOUIS ROSSE . I am in partnership with Mr. Imer, carrying on business in Geneva, with a branch establishment in London, which is conducted by me. In Aug., 1852, I engaged the prisoner as clerk and traveller at a salary of 1l. a week and his expenses—his duty was to collect orders and sell goods when I sent him for them—I used to take stock every month, and come to an understanding with the prisoner of what had been done by him—I was in the habit of entrusting watches to him for the purposes of sale for me, and he was to bring me back the money or the watches—I took stock in Nov., and missed four watches—I told the prisoner of it; he said he had them at home, and would bring them the day after, or in a few days—I had given them to him to sell, and ho had never returned them—I took stock on 3rd Jan., and missed then thirty-five watches, including the four I had previously missed—I believe I had entrusted twenty-six watches to him in Dec, or perhaps not quite so many—I then missed seven other watches which I had not entrusted to him; they had been taken from my stock without my knowledge—I told the prisoner I missed seven watches, and that I was quite surprised about it—he said he did not know anything about it, but he thought I was right—he then said he would bring the whole of the watches on 6th Jan.—on 7th Jan. the prisoner sent me two letters; this (produced) is one of them—some duplicates were enclosed in it, in consequence of which I made inquiries at the various pawnbrokers indicated on the tickets, and found the watches in pledge—Russell, the police officer, came to me, and I went with him to the prisoner's lodgings several times, and made efforts to take him, but we were unsuccessful—from 7th Jan., until the prisoner was seen at Westminster Hall, I had no opportunity of taking him—
he was ten weeks in Germany, at Leipzic fair—I afterwards heard of his being in England, and told Russell to take him if he could.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is it true that you would not go with Russell? A. I never refused, except at the first moment, when I could not go from my business; I said I had no time to go, and I was not anxious to take him—I never employed him to pledge watches for me. Q. Did you employ him to negotiate with Mr. Attenborough for you? A. Mr. Attenborough gave me 300l. for a case of watches for three months, which I paid in ten days—those were watches which I had bought in Switzerland; I had paid for them—I did not employ the prisoner to go to Attenborough about it—he told me he knew Mr. Attenborough, and introduced me to him—in Dec. the prisoner gave me a bill of his own for 25l. to discount—I did not promise to get it discounted for him; I said if I could get it discounted I would give the money to him—I said that, because I knew he could not do it himself—the prisoner has not been the means of getting any bills of mine discounted—he did not get any discounted—I do not recollect a bill in the name of Hartnell—I know Hartnell; I sold him some watches. Q. I am speaking of a bill of a person named Hedges: did you get that discounted by Hartnell? A. No; I had such a bill; the prisoner did not get it discounted by Hartnell—he told me he knew a person at the Hall of Commerce who would do it—Mr. Hartnell went with me to Mr. Swan, who discounted it—I became acquainted with Hartnell through the prisoner—I have never given the prisoner back that 25l. bill of his; I never saw him, so how could I?—it is not my property—it was entrusted to me to get the prisoner the money; not to get it discounted, but to get it paid—I sent it to Switzerland after the prisoner left—that was not for anybody's benefit" but I could not find him—I never got any money for it—it is here; this is it (produced)—I have not sued any body upon it—I gave it to my solicitor; that was to have it paid without expense—I did not promise him that if Hedges' bill was done through his friend I would do the 25l. bill for him—the prisoner sent me the bill to discount—I would not do it, and gave it him back two or three times, and he said he could not manage it, and he should like to have the money paid by me—I sent it to Switzerland to put it in circulation, and to get money for it to give to Mr. Purey—I mean to swear that I intended to give it to Mr. Purey.
Q. After Purey had left you, and had robbed you, you sent the bill to Switzerland to get money to pay him? A. Yes; I swear that—I expected that the bill would have been paid, and I should then have paid the money to Mr. Purey, but he was not in custody and I could not—he afterwards became a witness in a case against me, and I gave him into custody; I never could take him before—the bill I received for 11l. 2s. has been paid—these (produced) are the two I O U's I received—they have not been paid—one is the I O U of a Mr. Green—I do not know him.
MR. SLEIGH. Q. When was it the prisoner gave you the 25l. bill? A. In Dec.; I was unable to get it cashed for him, and sent it to Switzerland—I wanted to give it back to him on 3rd Jan., and he said, "You may keep it"—it has never been paid—several bills were returned to me unpaid; they were bills which the prisoner had taken for watches of mine, which he had sold—my watches went away, and these bills came back, in consequence of which I was obliged to go to a pawnbroker to raise money; my necessities were caused by the bad debts made by the prisoner—I became acquainted with Hartnell through Purey—I brought an action against him on a bill given by the prisoner which had never been paid—it was in March that Russell told.
me that the prisoner was to be found over the water—I told him I was obliged to be absent in Germany, and could not appear against him—I told Russell to take him if he could—these I O U's have never been paid.
COURT. Q. When was it that Attenborough advanced the 300l.? A. In Dec.; I think it was on the last day of Dec.
WILLIAM HENRY WARRE . I am a pawnbroker, of Skinner-street, Snow-hill. I have known the prisoner rive or six years—I do not particularly recollect seeing him at my shop on 29th Oct.; but on that day two gold watches were pledged at my shop, to which this ticket (produced) refers—it is in the name of John Purey, for two gold watches, pledgedfor 5l.—the prisoner was there on 3rd Nov., and pawned three silver watches for 4l. 10s., and on 24th Nov. a silver watch for 1l. 5s., and on 7th Jan. five silver watches for 7l.—the watch pawned on 7th Jan. had been previously pawned—I do not recollect seeing the prisoner at my shop on 7th Jan.; he merely paid the interest on the watches, and got a fresh ticket.
Cross-examined. Q. What is the value of the watches? A. They are pledged for 30l.; the selling price in the market in England would be about 35l., including the duty, as near as I Can say—there are a vast number of these watches in this country—the prisoner is a watchmaker, and I always considered him a respectable man—he produced his card at the first pledging, which I have lost; but it stated that he was a dealer or importer—I only knew him in the course of business.
JAMES GILL . I am shopman to Matthew Filmer, a pawnbroker, of 3, Kent-place, Old Kent-road; I produce a silver watch, pledged by the prisoner on 20th Sep.—I have not the slightest doubt of him—this (produced) is the duplicate.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him? A. Five years, as a watch agent; I believe he has borne a respectable character—I know nothing to the contrary.
FREDERICK LOUIS ROSSE re-examined. These watches are mine, and were in my establishment—here are among them the seven watches which I missed from my stock, and which I had not entrusted to the prisoner: three gold ones, and four silver ones.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Had not he a right to take any watches out of your stock to sell, if he pleased? A. No; I am sure of that.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Monday, July 4th, 1853.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HOOPER; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
MESSRS. SLEIGH and BYERLY THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
ANN PERKINS . I am the wife of Samuel Perkins, of No. 84, White-street, Bethnal-green-road. In Jan., 1851, my husband was sent to Horsemonger-lane prison—he was afterwards removed by habeas to the Queen's
Bench prison—I was frequently with him whilst he was there—I saw the prisoner there; I had not known him at that time—he introduced himself to me and my husband as an attorney—my husband asked him if he was an attorney—he said, Yes, he was—he asked him if he was on the rolls—he said, Yes, he was—my husband, on the faith of his being an attorney, consented to employ him—the first thing he said was, he heard we were in difficulties, and if we told him the truth, and told him all about it, he might be able to do something for us—he said he had got out a man that was in the room below, who was in the greatest difficulties—I touched my husband under the foot, and the prisoner looked very hard at me—I said to him, "Sir, it is a bold question to ask you, but are you a proper attorney?"—he said, "Yes, I am"—the prisoner said he would go and search the book to see what was against us, if my husband would give him half a crown—my husband gave him the half crown—he came in the evening, and brought a paper from the book—he said there was 5l. on Baron Martin's book only, and there was 5l. on the paper, and he could get my husband out, he thought, under a writ of error—he said it would have a very large seal, and it would cost a good bit of money, 8l. or 9l.—I gave him a 5l. note to go on with; that was about the middle of March—he went away, and came again in a few days afterwards, and said it was not money enough; he wanted more money, and I gave him 2l.—my husband was present at that time, and saw me pay the money—the prisoner had an additional 1l. 10s., which made 8l. 10s.—he said he would see what he could do—he came again, and said he could not get us out under a writ of error, as my husband was an insolvent—I said, "If you could not get him out under the writ of error because he was an insolvent, you ought to have known that before you took my money, if you are a proper attorney"—he said he thought the best way would be to try and compromise it—my husband had been arrested for 72l. at the suit of Nicholson—in the early part of May I paid the prisoner some more money to serve a writ on Mr. Sturgess, to get some money back out of Court—I paid the prisoner altogether, on the faith of his being an attorney, between 60l. and 70l.—on 21st June I paid him three guineas for the Counsel's fee for Sir Frederick Thesiger, and two guineas for Mr. Harrison—he said Mr. Harrison was a counsellor, and he was to be junior counsel to Sir Frederick Thesiger—I gave him 5l. 10s. altogether—the 5s. was for clerk's fees—I paid the money in presence of my husband—on 19th Feb., 1852, I paid the prisoner 17s. 6d.—I put down what I paid him from time to time, as I made the payments, on this paper—it was wearing out, and I made this other paper—on 19th April, 1852, I paid the prisoner 1l. 5s. for Mr. Harrison, the counsel, at the Judges' Chambers, to go on with the writ of error—on 12th May I saw the prisoner again; he came to our house, and I paid him 2l. 4s. 6d. for Mr. Harrison to go on with the trial in the Court of Exchequer, and we sat in the Court for several days to hear the trial—the prisoner gave me a receipt—this is it (read: "Mrs. Perkins has handed me 5l. 9s. 6d. before and up to this day. George Hetherington. ")—on 23rd Nov., 1852, I again saw the prisoner—he wanted 6l. to set aside a judgment, in consequence of Mr. Walker swearing to a false affidavit—I paid him 6l., and he gave a receipt for it—this is it—he said he had not been able to obtain his certificate, in consequence of not having my business settled—we had before employed a person, who was not an attorney, and we told Mr. Hetherington that, and asked him if he was an attorney—we should not have employed him if we had not thought he was an attorney, and it was on that faith we paid him these sums of money (Receipt read: "Mrs. Perkins has handed me 6l. for to
pay the costs of letting aside judgment under Judge's orders. George Hetherington. 23rd Nov., 1852. ")
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. How came your husband to be a prisoner? A. It was an action brought for slander; it was tried before Baron Martin in 1850, and there were no damages obtained—there was 5l. put down, and Baron Martin said the jury would not allow any expenses, and my husband was arrested for the costs in that action—when the prisoner was introduced to us, no one was present but me and my husband—there might have been a Mr. Borer in the prison—I know Mr. Huggett now; I did not know him then—neither Mr. Borer nor Mr. Huggett brought the prisoner to my husband's room—there was no person present at the time he came up—the prisoner first said he would go and search the book, and he did—I bare not seen this paper before (looking at one); it was a little slip of paper he had in his hand—he told me the entry in the judgment book was only 5l., that was all—if we had owed the money we should have paid it, but not owing it we did not wish to pay, and my husband was in prison for it.
Q. I suppose you told the prisoner you did not owe the money? A. We told him there was something wrong, because the Sherriff told us we ought not to go to prison—the prisoner told me to go and get the papers, and I brought them him—it was before I brought him the papers that he suggested the writ of error—Mr. Sorrell had the papers before; he was our attorney—he was an attorney—the person who came to us, and whom my husband asked to file the schedule in the Insolvent Debtors' Court, was not an attorney—when the prisoner came to us, it was between 15th March and 4th April, 1851—he said he could get us out under the writ of error, but, if not, he could get bail—I do not remember the prisoner suggesting to my husband that he would introduce him to an attorney—my husband did not say, "We want no more attorneys," never; nothing of the kind—the prisoner never brought us a document purporting to be a writ of error—before we saw the prisoner, my husband had applied to the Insolvent Debtors' Court—we told the prisoner that; we told him we bad applied on 15th March, and the Commissioner, Mr. Laws, told us that he would remand it till 4th April, and he told us on 4th April what Baron Martin had said—there was a meeting to give bail, to bail ray husband out of prison—that had nothing to do with the writ of error.
Q. When the two gentlemen came to give bail, did the prisoner say to them that the matter required consideration? A. He told them that the bail was no good, that my husband could not get out under bail, because he was an insolvent—he did not say, that because my husband was insolvent, it would he waste of money, to proceed; he said bail was of no good, because my husband was insolvent—the prisoner came to me after that—he did not express some disappointment about the way matters had turned out; about my not having told him the whole truth—he said that a writ of error would not do, and we had better compromise, and he would go with me; that was after we went up on 4th April—I did not ask the prisoner to assist us in this insolvent proceeding—I gave him half a guinea and a brief to deliver to Mr. Nicholson, but I believed the prisoner was an attorney—on 4th April my husband was heard at the Insolvent Debtors' Court, and the Commissioner said he had been to see Baron Martin, and he said he should do nothing till he was in Court—he appointed Mr. Nicholson assignee—he was the opposing creditor; he was the man that had my husband in prison—the reason of this delay from April to Nov. was to see Baron Martin—my husbandwas
remanded till 4th Nov" and Nicholson, the opposing creditor, was appointed assignee—I cannot tell the reason of this remand—there was no concealment of property in the case—my husband assigned a house to my brother—it was mine; I had bought it at the hammer—my husband assigned it to my brother some time before he went to prison; it was not with a view to his insolvency—I cannot tell whether he was remanded on account of that assignment—he was remanded till 4th Nov.; I do not know why he was remanded—Mr. Law did not say it was a fraudulent assignment of property—it was after that that the prisoner advised me to compromise—he did not say we had better pay the debt and costs; he said we had better compromise, and he went with me to Mr. May and asked what he would take, and he said 100l., and I said I would try and get it.
Q. Your husband was in prison for 72l., and he petitioned the Insolvent Court to be discharged? A. Yes; he was remanded from March till April, and from April till Nov.—we paid the whole of the schedule debts, 104l.—during all this time my brother-in-law collected the rents—the money did not find its way to my husband; sometimes it did—if my brother wanted the money he had it—the money did find its way to my husband, but that has nothing to do with it—we sometimes had it; sometimes my brother had it.
Q. What part of the prison was your husband in? A. The back part; he received 5s. a week—he did nothing at all to get that 5s.—he was put there for a false debt—Baron Martin said each party was to pay their own costs—my husband was discharged on paying 104l.; I got the money of my brother—I have not paid it him; I still owe it to him—the freehold house is still in my brother's name—that is not to protect us from our creditors; we have no creditors—the house is still in my brother's name, but it is our property.
Q. And being in possession of this, your husband went on the poor side of the prison, and after he was discharged he paid his debts? A. No; he paid his schedule debts, but was not discharged for three days afterwards, 11th Nov.—the debts were paid on the 8th—after my husband was got out there was a notice went to Mr. Sturgess—I was present when the prisoner advised my husband to bring an action against Mr. Sturgess—he said, "Get the money back"—I did not talk to other persons in the prison about bringing this action—there were no papers left at our house about that action of Mr. Sturgess, nothing of the kind—I never saw this paper before to my recollection—(produced)—I see how it is addressed; we lived there—I do not know anything about this paper—I never saw any more papers—I talked with the prisoner about employing a counsel—a counsel had been employed over and over again—in this particular action the prisoner said they had got big men against us, and we must have a big man—he said they had got Sir Fitzroy Kelly against us, and he must have Sir Frederick Thesiger—the record was withdrawn—I do not know what a nonsuit is—I do not know that there was a nonsuit in this case—we never owed a penny—there was another action after this against my brother, but that has nothing at all to do with it—there was an action brought against him by Sturgess to make him pay all the rents he had paid us, and to get back the deeds—he charged my husband with fraudulently making an assignment—the action went into Court—Mr. Atkinson was not our attorney—we never gave him any instructions whatever—there was a verdict against my brother for 60l.—the prisoner consented to a verdict—Mr. Yeovill and Mr. Lush were the counsel engaged—there were some witnesses, and they wanted to get into the witness-box—I do not know whether Mr. Lush would
not allow them—Mr. Yeovill and Mr. Lush contented to a Verdict—I did not charge the prisoner with having sold us on that occasion to Harrison and Walker—I never said to anybody that he had sold us—it was through him that the verdict was found—I did not say he had sold us—I had good reason to believe it—we employed the prisoner from March, 1851, till last Nov., and then he said he was not able to obtain his certificate on account of not having settled my business—I found last Nov. that he was not an attorney—I had not the slightest idea of it before—I know Mr. Huggett; I met him at Worship street—he never said anything to me about the prisoner not being an attorney—he said nothing about it—he said he was a most clever man—he did not say he was not an attorney—he said there were many lawyers who could not do what he could—he said there were not many lawyers that knew the points of law as he did—my husband asked the prisoner whether his name was on the roll—I suppose that means having a certificate—the prisoner said he was an attorney, and I asked him myself—I was examined at Worship-Street, and told the whole truth, every word—I told the Magistrate that I repeatedly asked the prisoner whether he was an attorney—I did not ask him that every time—I told the Magistrate every word that I have told here to-day—the prisoner said he was an attorney, and his rather an attorney before him.
Q. Have you always passed in your own name of Perkins? A. When I attended to my brother's business I used his name—I never introduced my husband as my brother—I never did to Mr. Barton—I never introduced him as Mr. Foster—I never said I was Mrs. Foster, nor that I Was the wife of Foster.
MR. B. THOMPSON. Q. At the time of this assignment you had no debts? A. No; the first action was against my husband for defamation—we had so debts then, and the cause of my husband being in this trouble was those costs—they were to pay their costs, and did not pay ours—the amount was 72l.—my husband became insolvent in March—while the prisoner was out on his own recognizances he came and offered me 100l. to forego this prosecution.
SAMUEL PERKINS . I was in prison for a debt of 72l.—while I was there the prisoner came and offered to assist me—my wife paid him several sums of money, at different times, on the faith that he Was an attorney—he said to me that he was an attorney—I had before seen a man of the name of Sorrell that I bad paid money to, and lost it—it was entirely on the faith of the prisoner being an attorney that I advanced him sums of money—the money was paid by my wife, in my presence—it was money we borrowed, and money I worked for, and I pawned our things, and got it in the best manner we could—the first time I saw the prisoner he said I was in a bad state, and I was to tell him the truth, and perhaps he might do some food for me—I said, "What are you?"—he said, "An attorney"—I said, "I have been taken in once before"—he said, "I am an attorney; I can get you out by getting a writ of error; if you will give me half a crown I will go and see what is against you"—I gave it him—he went, and came back, add said, "I can get you out by a writ of error, but it will have a large seal, and cost a good bit of money"—I said, "What?"—he said "8l. or 9l."—my mistress whispered to me, "Be careful what you are doing," and she trod on my toe, and she said to him, "Are you an attorney?"—he said, "Yes," and we advanced the money—I asked him, "Be you on the roll?"—he said, "Yea"—I said, "Have you ever been here?"—he said, "Yes, I was here a little while"—I was present when 100l. was offered by the prisoner to settle this prosecution—he offered 100l. to settle it, and said be would pay by instalments.
Cross-examined. Q. You have had a great deal of law? A. I have had too much—I was in the Queen's Bench at this time; I was in the back part, the pauper part; I was a pauper; I had not got 5l. in the world—I had paid it all away—I swore I was not worth 5l. in the world—I had no property worth 5l. then—I had no savings then; I swear that—I had assigned the house to my brother three months before—I assigned it because the lawyers would take away my property—I was arrested for 5l.—I assigned this to avoid the costs, because the lawyers put the costs on me—I was detained in prison for the costs—I assigned the house to avoid paying these costs, because I did not owe them—my brother received the rent of that house—a part of the rents came to me—I did receive some for some time—I did not collect the rents; my brother did—I did not have them for some time afterwards—I swore that I was not worth 10l.; I had then assigned the house away—the house was my own all the time—it was worth 470l.
Q. And you took your oath that you were not worth 5l., and you were the owner of that house? A. No, my brother was the owner, if I assigned it to him—I had not got a farthing at that time—my brother paid me nothing for the house; it was assigned to him.
Q. Was your motive, in assigning that to your brother-in-law, to get it out of the way of being answerable for your debts? A. I did not owe them—it was put upon me to pay, but I did not answer it.
COURT. Q. Your object was to get rid of the creditors, whether real or assumed? A. Yes
MR. DOYLE. Q. Do you mean to tell this Jury that that house was not substantially your house at the time you went in prison? A. No, because I had assigned it away—I did not receive anything for that assignment—I never went through the Insolvent Court—it was agreed the rents were to be paid to me—I do not know whether the rents were coming to me all the time or not—I do not know whether I was entitled to the rents at the time I went in prison—I do not know whether it is my house now—they seem to say it is not.
COURT. Q. You assigned the house to your brother, because some persons were claiming debts of you that you did not owe? A. Yes—I had not got 5l. in the world; I had no savings—what savings I had I paid the lawyers—what I had I pawned prior to going to prison.
MR. DOYLE. Q. When did you go to the Insolvent Court? A. I do not know—I cannot say the date—I cannot say about the date—I did not put it down; I am no scholar at all—I was there two or three times—the first time I was remanded—I was remanded the second time for two or three days—it was for my brother to bring a book, or something—I cannot remember the last date I was brought up; I did not keep an account of the date—I was remanded the last time for four months—the lawyer made it up in order to go in on ray property, if I had any—the Commissioner said I was falsely imprisoned, and he ordered me to go out of the box—I was not remanded because the Commissioner said I was falsely imprisoned—I was sworn at the Insolvent Debtors' Court—my brother-in-law was not sworn there when I went to be examined—I was examined, and I was sworn.
Q. Did Mr. Commissioner Law believe what you said? A. He will not believe nothing at all—I was examined about this assignment of my property—my brother-in-law was examined about the assignment—we were never asked the question whose property it was, because there were persons come there who would swear to anything—they swore the house was mine, and then they swore it was not—they swore backwards and forwards, and
you want to bring them again to swear again now—they did not ask me whose the house was—I was remanded for four months.
Q. Did the prisoner recommend you to do anything at that time? A. I did not know the prisoner till some time after that—it was not directly after I was remanded that the prisoner came to me—it might be a fortnight or three weeks afterwards—I am quite certain I did not know the prisoner at that time.
Q. If any person comes here and swears it was before the remand, would that person tell the truth? A. I was remanded so many times—when I was remanded for four months I did not know the prisoner—when I first became acquainted with the prisoner it was several weeks after—he came and said that he recommended himself to me—I cannot say to a day or two when it was—I was not remanded for four months the first time; I think it was only two days—I was brought up again, and it was adjourned for four months—I believe it was after the second time that I became acquainted with the prisoner—I paid my debts in Court, twenty shillings in the pound—I did not pay; my friends did for me—I did not see the money at all; it was paid by my wife and the prisoner—I am answerable for it—I think my acquaintance with the prisoner occurred subsequently to the second adjournment, but I do not recollect the day—I had been put back for four months, and a week afterwards the prisoner came and recommended himself to me.
Q. After you came out you brought this action against Mr. Sturgess? A. I wanted the money back—I saw several papers in the second action—some papers were left at my house—I did not particularly see them—I cannot read them—I believe there was an action brought against Mr. Foster after that of mine—of course it was against my brother—they seemed to follow the house—whether it was an action against me or the house I cannot tell—the action was brought against my brother-in-law—I did not see the papers myself—I was in Court when that action came on for trial—Mr. Atkinson never had any instruction from me, nor yet from my brother-in-law—he did not know him—I did not see Mr. Atkinson there the first day—on the second day he came to me and said, "Who is Foster?" I said "I don't know"—I saw Atkinson the second day; he was not acting as attorney—I do not know who were the counsel in that action—I was not called before any counsel—I had no conversation with Mr. Lush.
MR. BYERLY THOMPSON . Q. Was not the first an action for defamation against you? A. Yes—each party was to pay their own costs, and I was to pay 5l. damages—the costs were not to exceed 8l., but I do not know what the costs were adjudged at—they were trying to make me pay the costs of both parties; that Is what I mean by saying the debt was not mine—that was the reason why I went to prison, because I did not choose to pay a debt that was not my own—at the time this house was assigned to Foster, I did it in order that those who I thought were unjust creditors might not get it—I had no intention then of insolvency—the petition in the Insolvent Debtors' Court was filed against my own wishes—I did not wish to become an insolvent—at the time I assigned this house over to my brother, I believed that it had become absolutely his property—I could not myself have sold it—it has never been re-assigned to me—I have never tried to sell it—I do not suppose I could if I were to try—at the time I swore I was not worth. 5l. in the world, I had not received a farthing of the rents from that house after it had been assigned—at the time I assigned it I had no debts of my, own—all my debts were these lawyers' bills, this 72l.; in fact, there was no fraudulent making away of property.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Did you not afterwards receive rents? A. Yes—I have not been trying to sell the house; my brother-in-law has—no one ever told me that the prisoner was not an attorney—they always told me he was, and he told me so himself over and over again.
WILLIAM GEORGE BOWER . I am clerk to Sir Frederick Thesiger. I never received a fee of three guineas from the prisoner—I have seen the prisoner about, and spoken to him—he has never paid me a fee at any time—a fee may be left for me—Sir Frederick Thesiger never held a brief from the prisoner.
Q. Did the prisoner ever ask you about taking a brief? A. He certainly did bring some papers, and I would not take a fee of three guineas.
PETER HARRISON . I have not been called to the bar—I could not give a brief to Sir Frederick Thesiger—the prisoner called on me about Feb. last, and brought some papers—he asked me whether this had been paid—the case is marked with my name, and I presume the fee has been paid, one guinea—I cannot say that he gave it me, whether my clerk received it, or whether one of my pupils—this fee was about June, 1851—I did not receive any fee in May, 1852.
Cross-examined. Q. There have been papers in your chambers? A. I do not know how these papers came to my chambers, but they were in my chambers by having my mark on them—I have no entry in my book of them.
MR. B. THOMPSON. Q. Is this a draft of a declaration? A. Yes; it is the handwriting of one of my pupils—the instructions contain no name—we thought it was a mistake.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you look to those who have been admitted since 1847? A. Yes, it was the admitted roll I searched.
JOHN THOMAS HALL . I am clerk to the Law Incorporated Society. We keep a register of all certificated attorneys, and all those who are bond fide in practice as attorneys—it is made out from a declaration made by any solicitor who wishes to commence practice—it is a copy of his declaration—it must necessarily contain the names of all the solicitors who are entitled to practice—there is an annual roll and a continued roll—I have searched both, and do not find the name of the prisoner there—I am perfectly satisfied he could not have been an attorney in practice—this will not inform me whether at any time he had been admitted as an attorney—he is not entitled to practice without a certificate, and he must necessarily, previous to obtaining a a certificate, lodge a declaration, and he is not on the roll.
COURT. Q. He might be an attorney, but not certificated? A. Yes
COURT to JOHN VANN. Q. Does the roll you searched contain the attorneys who were attorneys previous to that roll being made up? A. No—supposing a man were an attorney in 1850, and ceased to be one in 1852, he would not appear in 1852.
Cross-examined. Q. A person admitted in 1846 would not appear in 1847? A. No—when an attorney is admitted first his name is entered—I am able to swear the prisoner was not an attorney in 1851—supposing an attorney were admitted twenty years before, and he had not taken his certificate in 1850, his name would not appear.
1843 I do—it is a copy of the Queen's Bench roll and the Exchequer, and other Courts—we have it under the 6th and 7th of Victoria—all attorneys are obliged to come to us, and we compare their declaration with this book previous to their obtaining their certificates—in consequence of that I am able to say that the prisoner is not on the rolls of those Courts.
Cross-examined. Q. Will searching the Queen's Bench roll only, show all the attorneys in the various Courts? A. No; he might be an attorney of the Exchequer, or other Courts—he may be on their rolls—an attorney may not go to Somerset House, and pay the certificate duty, without coming to us—it is a violation of the practice if they take the money there—I believe it has been done.
CORNELIUS FOAY (police sergeant, H 7). On 16th Feb. I went to the prisoner's lodging, No. 2, Gough-square—I told him I came to take him into custody for obtaining various sums of money from Mrs. Perkins, and representing himself an attorney—I said, "Are you an attorney?"—he replied, "I am not"—he said, "I have been a friend to Mrs. Perkins, and now I am about getting an appointment, they want to rain me"—I took him into custody, and he was placed at the bar in the Magistrate's Court—there was an adjournment for a short time—during that time the prisoner was let out on his own recognizances—he did not return—he was afterwards taken on a warrant—I arrested him the second time—he then said he thought it was all settled; that he had written to Mrs. Perkins, wishing to know what money she wanted.
Cross-examined. Q. On 18th Feb. he was first taken? A. Yes, and remanded on his own recognizances till the 25th—he then appeared, and absconded an hour afterwards—he said afterwards that he ran away for fear of an arrest by a Sheriff's officer.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read as follows:—"I deny that when I was first introduced to the prosecutor and ins wife that I ever said I was an attorney, nor did the gentleman who introduced me state that I was an attorney; the prosecutor's wife was not present when I went into the prosecutor's room, but came in twenty minutes."
MR. DOYLE called
JOSEPH HUGGETT . I am a licensed victualler, in Ship-yard, Temple-bar. I have known the prosecutor about two years and a half, and known the prisoner close upon three years—I have had a good deal of conversation with the prosecutor and his wife about the prisoner within the last two years—I told them he was not an attorney—we were chatting in the Temple about eighteen months ago, when I told them that—they said they were aware he was not an attorney—I remember meeting them at Worship-street Police-court—they were at my house after the warrant was got for the prisoner's apprehension, and they said if Atkinson would get his bill of costs they would withdraw the prosecution, and say no more about it.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Is your house a house the prisoner frequented? A. Yes, the same as you might; I have been there better than two years—I was well aware the prisoner was not an attorney—there have been persons at my house to ask his advice, persons that I have introduced: not to ask his advice as an attorney, but about county courts and little jobs elsewhere—I told Perkins he was not an attorney, and they admitted that they knew he was not an attorney eighteen months ago—that was in the passage in Devereux-court, in the Temple—the conversation was about a little matter that the prisoner had in hand for me, getting a little bill discounted—I have had the misfortune to be in the Queen's Bench—I had not
seen the prisoner while I was there—I did not see Perkins while I was there—I did not send the prisoner to Perkins—I first knew Perkins by his coming to ray house close on two years ago—I heard that he was in prison—I did not know he was in prison at the time the prisoner first went to him—I was with the person who suggested to the prisoner that he would find Perkins there, and he would employ him—this offer about the money took place in my house, sitting at my bar.
MR. DOYLE. Q. Do you mean by the prisoner frequenting your house that he drank so much? A. No, he did not; he was a sober man.
CHARLES COLWILL . I am clerk to the Governor of the Queen's Bench Prison. I remember the prosecutor being a prisoner there—he was on the county or pauper side—he swore he was not worth 10l. in all the world, and had no means of subsistence without the provisions afforded under the Act.
Cross-examined by MR. B. THOMPSON. Q. Was the Act read over to him? A. Yes; it is invariably read over, and the prosecutor put his mark to it—I know the last witness—he was in the Queen's Bench—I have no means at this moment of knowing whether he was there at the time the prosecutor was, but it was about the same time—Huggett was in the habit of coming often to the parlour—I have seen him there, but not very often—I am not aware that the prisoner was in the habit of coming there for the purpose of soliciting practice—I knew him as an agent for persons there—it would be known in the prison that he was acting in that capacity—I do not know that it was a matter of general reputation that he was a law agent—he came as a visitor.
ROBERT CALNE BURTON . I am a solicitor. I know the prosecutor's wife—I became acquainted with them with reference to a mortgage—I understood she was the wife of Foster—Foster has accompanied her to my office; her husband did not till lately—I watched the case in the action of Sturgess against Foster—I was not the attorney in the case.
THOMAS SHIRWILL . I am clerk to Mr. Lush. I have some remembrance of the prisoner bringing a brief to our chambers about June, 1851—I declined taking it—I know the prisoner; he has come to our chambers as clerk to a solicitor.
(William Pulsford, a solicitor, and George Pritchard, an attorney, gave the prisoner a good character.)
MR. B. THOMPSON called
WILLIAM JOHN MACBETH . I am a solicitor and attorney. I prosecuted the prisoner for an offence similar to this, and he was acquitted on a technical point—I have known him for several years, since 1849—he has been living by representing himself as an attorney, and robbing and plundering the world as much as he could—I have had several cases of this kind brought to me of tavern keepers and other persons—this is a check he passed on me where he had no effects, and he obtained 5l. from me—I was not subpœnaed here; I came from curiosity to see whether he would get off this time.
Cross-examined by MR. DOYLE. Q. Can you state any particular case of those you speak of? A. Yes; one was M'Cormack—he there represented himself as an attorney, and he was employed to collect moneys for him; and there was a poor woman that he was the means of turning out of house and home.
JOHN BAPTISTE SMITH . I am a barrister. In the course of last year the prisoner took chambers "belonging to me, through a friend of mine who had the letting of them when I was in the country—when I returned to town in consequence of something I heard, I asked the prisoner if he was what he represented, a parliamentary agent; he said, "Yes, my name appears on the
roll at Westminster, a parliamentary agent"—several persons came to me, representing frauds he bad committed on them, and under a clause in the agreement I ejected him—I have been a loser of 7l. 15s. by him.
GUILTY . Aged 39.— Confined Twelve Months.
(MR. BALLANTINE, for the prosecution, offered no evidence.)
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, July 5th, 1853.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HOOPER; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. RECORDER, and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
773. THOMAS JONES , burglary in the dwelling house of Elizabeth Boardman, and stealing therein 4 salt cellars, 1 pair of trowsers, 4 brushes, and I duster, value 17s. 6d., her goods; and I coat, 1 waistcoat, 1 comb, 1 shirt, and 1 apron, value 8s., the property of Robert Johnson, to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Twelve Months.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Fourteen Days.
GUILTY , and received a good character. Aged 31. Recommended to mercy.— Confined Twelve Months.
THOMAS TOWNSEND (City policeman, 54). On 1st July I was with Dunnaway on Tower-hill, in plain clothes—I saw the prisoners, and followed them, having known them previously—they were following the prosecutor, and were both close together; I had seen them together ten minutes before that—Pearce put his hand in the prosecutor's pocket and took out a handkerchief, which he put into his pocket—Green was by his side, looking towards the prosecutor, and must have seen him do it—Pearce then went to a fruit stall, and Green went on and followed the gentleman—I laid hold of Pearce, and asked him to give me the handkerchief; he shuffled away and said, "What handkerchief"—I threw him down and took it from his pocket.
PETER WILLIAM DUNNAWAY (policeman), I was with Townsend, and saw the prisoners together—Green put his right hand in the gentleman's left hand coat pocket; and then Pearce put his hand into the same pocket and drew out a handkerchief—I said to Townsend, "He has got it," and went and spoke to the prosecutor—I afterwards took Green, and told him I wanted him for being concerned with another one in picking a gentleman's pocket—he said, "You are mistaken," and looking over his shoulder at Pearce, who had been taken, said, "I do not know him"—I had been watching them for an hour.
Pearce's Defence. I saw the handkerchief lying on the ground, picked it up, put it in my pocket, and the police laid hold of me.
Green's Defence. A gentleman tapped me on the shoulder and said I had stolen his handkerchief: I said he was mistaken; I knew nothing of it: if I had been guilty, I should not have walked by the gentleman's side afterwards as I did; the other prisoner is a stranger to me.
PEARCE— GUILTY .† Aged 22.
GREEN— GUILTY .† Aged 26. Confined Six Months .
MESSRS. PARRY and BYERLY THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
----THURSTON. I am clerk to Commissioner Fane of the Bankruptcy Court. I produce the proceedings in Bankruptcy of Joseph and John Legge—I have the adjudication here—(this was dated 2nd April, 1853, and declared Joseph and John Legge, upholsterers and cabinet makers, to be bankrupts, within the meaning of the Act. Signed, "Edward Goulbourn, Commissioner.") I also produce the declaration made by the defendant on 4th April (read: "I Joseph Legge, being declared a bankrupt, do solemnly promise and declare that I will make true answer to all such questions as may be proposed to me respecting all the property of me the said defendant, and all dealings and transactions relating thereto; and that I will make a full and true disclosure of all that has been done to the best of my knowledge, information, and belief")—I was present on 4th April before Mr. Commissioner Evans, at some part of the defendant's examination, but not the whole time—his signature is to each page of it—I did not see him sign it, but I know his writing—(part of the defendant's examination was then read as follows: "Mr. Marshall is the landlord of No. 4, York-terrace aforesaid. He is no relation of mine. I have not taken any portion of that house. About two month's since I applied to Mr. Marshall for an advance of money. Mr. Marshall is not in trade, he is a speculator in anything and everything. I have known Mr. Marshall about two or three years, I imagine he was always a speculator and never in business. I think it was about two month's since Mr. Marshall agreed to let me have what money I required upon my stock in trade, as also of my partner. It was upon a portion of my stock about a month ago. Mr. Marshall gave me 50l. in money, all gold, to the best of my belief, as a loan on personal security. I gave him no security whatever, nor did my partner to my knowledge; but I promised to do so in case any further sum was advanced. He did make to myself and partner one advance of 68l., about a fortnight since. It was paid partly in notes and partly in gold. I cannot positively state whether any one was present")—that examination is sealed with the seal of the Court—on 5th April, the defendant was examined before Commissioner Fane, as follows: "Have you anything further to add to your examination of yesterday as to your books? All memorandums or books that I have, to my knowledge, are at Southampton.—Where at Southampton? They are with Mr. Marshall, whose address I do not know, with the exception of a few memorandums, which the officer who took me has in his possession.—Where did you see those books? At Southampton, in the house in which I was arrested: I wish to state that all memorandums were there when I left, relating to my transactions—Where were the books, were they in a desk? In a desk.—Describe those books?
They were chiefly memorandums and invoices, bankers' books, checks, and other memorandums; I cannot remember anything else at present.—Were those books and papers the only books you kept in your business? They were, to the best of my belief.—Did you keep a ledger? There was a ledger, but there was no entry in it.—As the property you speak of was deposited with Mr. Marshall for the benefit of your creditors, was Mr. Marshall selected to receive that property and deposit by your creditors, or any of them? He was not.—By whom was he chosen? He was chosen by myself and brother.—How came you and your brother, or you alone, to choose him? For the security of the property until we could make arrangements.—I ask you, why you selected Marshall more than any body else? Because we had known him.—How long had you known him? Two or three years. As what? As a cabinet maker, at Canterbury.—Where is he now? At Southampton. "On 9th April, 1853, the defendant was again examined as follows: "Do you adhere to the statement you made on your first examination? No.—In what respect do you wish to depart from that? That Marshall is a relation of mine—he is my father; that he has all the property I have or had deposited with him at Southampton, at No. 4, York-terrace, New Town, Southampton, That is the only thing that I can remember in my examinations that I can correct; I wish to correct others, but I cannot remember them.—Who took the house at Southampton? Marshall Legge, the person I have spoken of before as Mr. Marshall.—Was Marshall Legge, your father, ever in business?Yes—Where are the account books relating to your business? The memorandums and papers were at Southampton, in York-place, when I left; they were in a desk, and all the books I had, except a pocket book and banker's book.—Where is the 80l. you received from Gingell? 70l. deposited with Marshall Legge, my father, 7l. 15s. was paid to Mr. Fisher, my former landlord, for rent, and the rest was spent in going to Southampton, and other little expenses.—What were your intentions when you went to Southampton? To rest for a short time, and to make arrangements for the benefit of my creditors.—By the Commissioner—I am not satisfied with that last answer, because it is impossible to believe you went to Southampton, and put your goods into the hands of your father, assuming a false name, with any intention to benefit your creditors; I therefore again call upon you to state what your real intention was? The sole reason I had in placing the goods there, or one of the motives, was to preserve them for the benefit of my creditors at a future time as soon as I recovered myself, as I was very ill at the time: I intended to see them to make them an offer, and to throw myself upon their mercy I had this motive also, which was to prevent one or two creditors coming in and sweeping off what there was, and thus deprive the whole of the remainder of the benefit of them, that was my motive; I also wished to prevent an execution coming in, and I had been threatened by the holder of a 50l. bill; signed, Joseph Legge. "On that occasion the defendant was re-committed to the Queen's prison, the answers not being satisfactory.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. They were not satisfactory to Mr. Commissioner Fane, who had him sent to gaol? A. Sent to the Queen's prison; that was on 5th April-his wife was not committed too by Mr. Commissioner Fane—I was present at the original examination before Commissioner Evans—the bankrupt was cross-examined by the adverse solicitor, Mr. Payne—I did not hear Mr. Commissioner Evans say that the examination was being conducted in a very unfair way, or that advantage was being taken of his position—I was not present at the examination before Commissioner Evans, except a very short time—I believe Mr. Commissioner Evans did
desire Mr. Payne to put his questions in another form—the fiat came on, as a matter of course, before Mr. Commissioner Evans, who was the sitting Commissioner; if Mr. Commissioner Fane had been there, it would have been taken before him—the commission was appointed for Mr. Commissioner Goulburn—Mr. Payne was present on the second occasion, and the examination was conducted by him—I was present on the second occasion the whole time, but am not aware, without reading the book, that the bankrupt desired to add something to his evidence; most certainly not, in my presence—I believe I was present at the conclusion—I do not recollect Mr. Commissioner Fane taking his lunch, and having it put on the mantelpiece; he does not take it above once a month—I think I have a recollection of his lunch being brought in—I have an indistinct recollection of something of the kind, of tome sandwiches being brought in the middle of the examination—the Commissioner got up, and went on eating his sandwiches during the examination—I do not think the lunch terminated the examination—on the third examination I believe Mr. Linklater, the solicitor, was present for the bankrupt—I do not recollect that Mr. Linklater pressed Mr. Commissioner Fane to hear further statements by the bankrupt, and that he refused, neither is it his practice—I do not recollect that it happened on this occasion; but if Mr. Linklater was putting improper questions, I dare say he would not hear any more—he may have refused to hear him, but I have no recollection of it.
MR. PARRY. Q. On the first examination was Mr. Commissioner Evans presiding in open Court? A. He was—I did not see any lunch brought to him—I heard the bankrupt asked questions about his father by Commissioner Evans—I heard him say before Commissioner Fane that he had known Mr. Marshall two or three years—the questions were put to him by the solicitor to the petition, and they were then reduced to writing, as they appear here; it was then read over to him—I believe Mr. Fane was taking his lunch at the time it was read over to him—I saw the defendant affix his signature after it had been read—both when he was being examined, and afterwards while he was putting his signature, Mr. Commissioner Fane cautioned him as to what be had been saying—I heard him do so two or three times—I believe the bankrupt was attended, on the second examination, by Mr. Linklater, or Mr. Wallinger, the attorneys—I am not quite sure, but I think Mr. Wallinger appeared; he acted as the defendant's attorney while he was giving these answers before Mr. Commissioner Fane—I have no recollection of Mr. Commissioner Fane refusing to hear more, and I was present almost the whole time—in the course of signing the depositions on the second occasion, and while Mr. Fane was cautioning him about his answers, the bankrupt had ample opportunity of making any statement he wished to Mr. Fane—he was brought up at his own request on the third occasion.
ROBERT JOHNSON . I am usher to Mr. Commissioner Evans Here are my initials to this declaration, which has been signed by Joseph Legge—I did not see it signed—I asked him whether it was his signature—he said, "Yes"—I asked him if he had read it—he said, "No," it had been read over to him, and that he quite understood it—I explained to him that it had the same effect as an oath, and after that he was examined before the Commissioner—I was present all the time, and have no doubt I saw him sign the depositions; they were either read over to him or he read them himself—I put my initials to the declaration; it was taken in the ordinary course.
JOHN SPITTLE (City policeman). On 2nd April I received directions to apprehend Joseph and John Legge, and the warrant of the Commissioner of Bankruptcy, which is on the proceedings, was placed in my hands—Mr.
Zuccani, one of the creditors, went with me to No. 4, York-terrace, New Town, Southampton—we searched the greater part of the house for the prisoner and his brother—after immense difficulty, caused by a man who called himself Marshall, who has since told me his name is Legge: and the prisoner's wife—on my return from the coal cellar they attempted to keep me from getting into the house again; but with the assistance of Mr. Zuccani I got in again, and proceeded up stairs, when Marshall got two upholsterer's hammers, and the prisoner's wife a very large stick—I kept them at bay, and sent Zuccani up stairs—we eventually captured the defendant, who came from the upper part of the house—I did not see John Legge, the other bankrupt, there—I took possession of the furniture that was there—the house was full of cabinet and upholstery work, some finished and some not—I should say it would weigh full four tons, and there was more furniture at No. 5, as No. 4 would not hold the whole—on the following day, Monday, 4th April, I took the defendant up to London—I was present at his examination, at the Bankruptcy Court, on 8th April, I think it was—I then saw the man who had represented himself to be Marshall—on 20th April I again saw him at Guildhall, and having been told something, I said to him in the defendant's presence, "Your son has given you some money, what is it?"—the defendant heard it, and said, "I have not given him any"—I said, "You have"——Marshall then said that Mr. Wontner, his attorney, had given him some—since that I have twice seen the defendant and Samuel Marshall Legge together, at Guildhall police court—I have 'not heard them say anything about their relationship, but have always heard them address each other as father and son; I cannot give the exact words—I heard them conversing together for half an hour, and they appeared to understand each other perfectly well as father and son, but I cannot recollect any of the words that passed between them; they identified each other in a general way—I was not present in the Court of Bankruptcy on 9th April, when the defendant was examined, and said Marshall was his father.
Cross-examined. Q. You took him into custody on Sunday? A. Yes, about 2 o'clock in the day—I took him to London next day—he was examined, was allowed to go at large, and surrendered next morning—I took his wife into custody; that was for conspiracy—I did so because Mr. Nicholson, one of the creditors, was ready to charge her, and I knew that he was acting under the directions of two solicitors, who I thought knew better than me—I took her in London, in Queen-street, Cheapside—I also took Samuel Marshall Legge for conspiracy—the father, the son, and the son's wife were all charged—there were four examinations—the wife was not discharged immediately; she was remanded by Mr. Alderman Cubitt, and was ultimately discharged—the defendant had been examined before Mr. Commissioner Fane and Commissioner Evans before he was taken up for conspiracy—I think the case of conspiracy was dismissed on 14th May—as far as this particular charge goes we have not been before a Magistrate at all.
MR. PARRY. Q. Do you know that four different Aldermen heard the charge of conspiracy? A. No; I was out of town—I was present at four examinations, and went before two Aldermen, Alderman Cubitt and Alderman Farebrother—I believe the case was remanded four times.
MR. BALLANTINE to ROBERT JOHNSON. Q. Who took down the examination of the bankrupt? A. I think it was the clerk of Mr. Payne, the attorney for the commission—that is the usual practice—it was conducted in the ordinary way—it is the practice for the clerk to the solicitor for the petitioning creditor, to take down the examination verbatim.
EMILIO ZUCCANI . I am a creditor of Joseph and John Legge, to the amount of 252l. 8s. 11d. I accompanied Spittle to Southampton to execute the warrant—I was the petitioning creditor—I heard that the parties had subsequently taken—I acquainted Mr. Tipling, another creditor, and we acted together—when we got to Southampton I saw a person representing himself as Mr. Marshall—I have been in Court, and heard Spittle examined—the interruption he speaks of is correct—we had great difficulty in apprehending the defendant—I have since seen the man calling himself Marshall, before the Magistrate, but have heard no conversation between him and the defendant in reference to their relationship—on one occasion, when the examination was over, they retired into a little back office, and some conversation took place between the father and the son, and some inquiry was made about some money passing, and Spittle insisted on searching, and said that some money had passed from the son to the father—the son said he had not passed any money—the goods seized at Southampton realized 500l.—the greater part of them were mine.
JOHN THOMAS TREHERN . I am managing clerk to Mr. Payne, one of the solicitors to the bankruptcy. I was present on the 4th, 6th, and 9th April at the Bankruptcy Court, when the defendant was examined—I took down what he stated, accurately and verbatim, I believe—on the second occasion Mr. Wallinger, an attorney, was present for the defendant—he did not put questions to him—Mr. Linklater was the attorney acting for him on the third occasion—he is a gentleman of great practice in the Court of Bankruptcy—after the examinations were taken down, they were read over to the bankrupt before he signed them'—I was present when he made the declaration—on the first occasion he was rather excited, having been brought up from Southampton, but on the other occasions he was perfectly calm—I was present before the Magistrate when a charge of conspiracy was made against the father, the son, and the wife, by Mr. Nicholson, as the largest creditor, on behalf of himself and all the others—there were five examinations, I think; the two first were before Mr. Alderman Cubitt, the third before Mr. Alderman Copeland, the fourth before Sir Peter Laurie, and the fifth before Mr. Alderman Farebrother—it was the act of Alderman Farebrother to discharge them—he had not heard the whole of the evidence.
Cross-examined. Q. Alderman Farebrother ultimately discharged the case, but was not Alderman Copeland on the bench at the time? A. Part of the time he was—the last examination took seven or eight hours, and each examination took a long time—I do not think all the examinations were read over by Mr. Wood, the clerk, but they were explained by him.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did you see the father and son together at all? A. Frequently; I was within hearing when they were conversing together, but cannot say what passed between them—I did not hear them call one another son and father—there is a warrant granted against the father, but they have not been able to get him to my knowledge.
WILLIAM HENRY BELEN PAYNE . I am the son of Mr. Payne, the solicitor, and am his articled clerk. I saw the defendant at the Queen's Bench prison after the last examination—we were talking about whether the indictment for perjury was to be carried out or not; he asked me whether it would—I said I believed it would, and he said he could never be convicted—I said, "Well, what can be stronger perjury than stating that you do not know your own father?"—he said, "If I had not chosen to have admitted that he was my father, they could never have proved it against me. "
Cross-examined. Q. Did you not go down and smoke a pipe with this man? A. Yes; my father knows I smoke pipes—I am twenty-three years old—I did not tell the defendant that the whole of the conversation between us should be confidential—I do not remember that anything of the kind passed; I will not swear it—i will tell you what was said: when I went away I said, "You need not mention that I smoked a pipe here with yon;" that was the confidential part of it, and he promised he would not—I then came home, and told the conversation he bad with me.
GUILTY Aged 33.
MR. BALLANTINE requested that a verdict might be taken separately upon each assignment.
The JURY stated that they found that the person calling himself Marshall was the father of the defendant, and that there was no evidence of the defendant having taken the house in York-terrace.
MR. PARRY contended that a verdict of Guilty generally should be entered on the first Count, it being only necessary for the Jury to find that the defendant gave false evidence on any material point.
The COURT, upon the authority of a recent decision of Lord Denman, directed a verdict to be entered of Guilty on the first Count, on the first and third assignments of perjury, and Not Guilty on the second and fourth assignments. MR. BALLANTINE then moved in arrest of judgment; first, that in the indictment the declaration, was averred to be made in pursuance of an Act entitled"An act to amend and consolidate the laws relating to Bankruptcy," whereas no such Act existed; and therefore there could be no jurisdiction to administer the declaration, the real title of the Act being "An Act to amend and consolidate the laws relating to Bankrupts;" and that as the words in question supported a material allegation, they were not matter of form, but matter of substance, and therefore could not be amended by the Court; secondly, that the indictment averred "that it became material to inquire what was the nature of the said Joseph Legge's dealings with one Mr. Marshall," but making no mention of Mr. Marshall Legge, and that the Jury had in reality found by their verdict that there was such a person as Mr. Marshall, although the allegation stated that there was no such person; and thirdly, that there was, in point of fact, no allegation of materiality whatever in the indictment.
MESSRS. PARRY and BYERLY THOMPSON contended that under the 254th section of the Act, it was sufficient to support the indictment, that false evidence was proved to be given before the Commissioner, and that the 93rd section recognized the word "bankruptcy."
The COURT took time to consider its decision, and on a subsequent day, July 7th, stated that after having consulted Mr. Baron Parke, it had come to the decision that judgment must be arrested, and that the prisoner must be sent back to the Queen's Bench prison.
MARY SEABROOK . I am cook and housekeeper at No. 39, Upper Brook-street. On the morning of 24th June, after 9 o'clock, I left my room door open for five minutes; it is at the bottom of the area steps—I was absent five minutes, or a little more, and then went into the area, and saw somebody lying on the hearth rug in my room—I went in and saw the prisoner—I said, "What brought you here, you wretch?"—he said, "I came to buy bottles," and wanted to go from the door, but I would not let him go out—I lost my senses—the servant came, and I sent her for the footman—I then examined
a cupboard, and missed two tea spoons of my own, which I had placed in a sugar bason not ten minutes before—nobody had any communication with my room but myself—after the prisoner was taken away I found the spoons placed in my bonnet, on the sideboard—these are them (produced)—they are mine—the bonnet was about a yard and a half from the cupboard—I am sure I did not remove the spoons from the cupboard myself.
Prisoner's Defence. I had called at the house before to know if there were any bottles to sell, and a servant told me to call on 24th June; I called, and nobody was there; I saw the door open, and sat down on the sofa; the lady came and found me there, and thought I had robbed the place; she must have mislaid the spoons
MARY SEABROOK re-examined. The hearth rug which the prisoner was upon is near the cupboard—the place where the spoons were is higher than the hand; it would not be necessary for him to go down on his knees to get there—if he called before, I did not see him—he had no basket or bag with him.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
WILLIAM MILLERMAN (policeman, B 98). I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction (read—"Thomas Millard, convicted June, 1852, of larceny, and confined six months")—I was present, and am sure he is the man,
GUILTY.*† Aged 44.— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, July 5th 1853.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. Ald. MOON; and Mr. COMMON
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
MARIA EDWARDS . My husband's name is George Edwards; he is a butcher in Finsbury-market. On 3rd May the prisoner came for a pound of steak, which came to 9d.—he offered me a crown piece—I had not sufficient change, and went to a neighbour, Mr. Squire—he said it was bad—it was not out of my sight—I took it back to my shop, and told the prisoner it was a bad one—he asked me to give it him back; I said, "No, I will go to another neighbour to see if it is bad"—I saw a policeman, and gave him the crown—the prisoner said he did not know it was bad, and he took it in Bishopsgate-street for a few coals.
JOHN THORPE (policeman, G 193). I took the prisoner—I found on him 2 1/2 d. in copper—he said he lived at No. 20, John-street, Houndsditch, and he gave the name of Charles Harrison—I inquired, and could find no such place—the prisoner was discharged on the 10th—this is the crown (produced).
MARIA JOHNSON . My husband keeps a greengrocer's shop in Bethnal-green. On Saturday evening, 28th May, the prisoner came, and I served him with vegetables, which came to 5d.—he gave me a crown piece—I took it to the next neighbour, and found it was bad—I did not lose sight of it—I took it back, and gave it to my husband—an officer was sent for, and the prisoner was given into custody.
WILLIAM MALCOLM (policeman, K 214). On Saturday, 28th May, the prisoner was given into my custody by the last witness, and he handed me this crown—the prisoner gave his address No. 20, St. John-street, Brick-lane—I made every inquiry—there is a St. John-street, but I could hear nothing of the prisoner.
Prisoner. I had the misfortune to take them; the direction I gave was where my uncle lives, the only friend I have, at No. 20, St. John-street, Brick-lane.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months ,
MESSRS. ELLIS and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS PUZEY . I am barman at the Ben Jonson, in Clerkenwell. On Monday, 6th June, the prisoner came, and I served him with half a pint of porter—he paid me with a shilling, I gave him ll 1/4 d. change—he left, I put the shilling in the till—there were two sixpences in the till, but no other shilling—after the prisoner had left I had occasion to go to the till in about five minutes; I noticed that the shilling was counterfeit—I gave it to my brother Charles—I saw him mark it and put it on a shelf—on the following day the prisoner came again—I served him with some beer and tobacco—he paid me with a bad half crown—I called my brother, and gave it to him—I told the prisoner it was bad, and that he had been there before, passing a bad shilling—he denied it—I have no doubt that he is the same man that came on the former day.
CHARLES PUZEY . Lam landlord of the Ben Jonson; the last witness is my brother and barman. On Monday evening, 6th June, I got a shilling from him—I marked it, and put it on the shelf—on the next evening my brother called me, and said it was the same man he took the shilling of—I saw the prisoner then—I had seen him the night before—my brother said, "This man was here last night"—I asked the prisoner where he got the half crown; he said his wife gave it him—my brother gave me the half crown—I marked it, broke it, and gave it to the officer, and the shilling too.
CHARLES HATTON (policeman, G 203). I produce this shilling and the broken half crown, which I got from the last witness—I took the prisoner, and told him he was charged with passing the bad half crown—I asked him his address, he said he had no address.
Prisoner. Q. Did I not tell you I was at work at the Exhibition? A. Yes.
Prisoner's Defence (written). I had received my wages at the Exhibition, Sydenham, on the Saturday before; I did not know it was bad money; I think I must have taken it in change of a sovereign I received at the Exhibition; I was never in this man's house before, and was never locked up in my life.
GUILTY . Aged 35.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN MORRIS . I keep the Rum Puncheon in Old-street, St. Luke's. On Wednesday, 15th June, I was in the bar serving about 9 o'clock at night—the prisoner came a little after 9 o'clock—I served him with half a pint of 4d. ale—he gave me a shilling, and I gave him change—I placed the shilling on some 2s. pieces that were in the till—I saw it just as the prisoner was passing out—I said, "This is a bad shilling"—I did not mix it at all, and never lost sight of it—I tried it in the detector and bent it—I went after the prisoner, but I could not see him—I put the shilling on a shelf behind the bar—I saw the prisoner again the next evening about the same time—I then served him with half a pint of beer, and he gave me another shilling which was bad—I saw he was the same man by the mark on his face—I said, "This is a bad shilling"—he said "Is it; I live across the road, I will get a good one"—he went across the road, and I after him—I caught him, and was going to take him to the station, but the policeman came along and I gave him into custody—the shilling was in my hand, and I gave it to the policeman before he took the prisoner—he came down with me and took the other shilling, which had been on the shelf at the back of the bar.
JOHN CHURCHILL (policeman, G 187). On 16th June I took the prisoner into custody from the last witness—he gave me one shilling at the time, and afterwards another at his house, which was bent—these are them.
Prisoner's Defence. I was never running away; I walked across the road; I told him I took the shilling of a man; he came and asked me to come back; I said "Very well;" he said 'Here comes a constable, that will do as well."
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH ASHFORD . I keep a Berlin wool shop, in Norland-road. On 11th June a person came to my shop, who, I believe, was the prisoner, between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—a person who was there served her with some Berlin wool—she laid down a crown; I gave it to my cousin to get change, because we had no small change.
Prisoner. Q. When you first saw me in Mrs. Howlett's shop you could not swear to me; when you saw me on the second remand you said it was me? A. I believe you to be the woman; I have very little doubt about it.
JANE CRAWLEY . I am cousin of the last witness. On 11th June the prisoner came to the shop, she asked for some Berlin wool—I saw her served—I shortly afterwards had a crown given me by Sarah Ashford—I took it over to Mr. Butlin's, a baker, to get change—I gave it to Mrs. Butlin; she put it in the till, and gave me five shillings in change—she then took the crown out of the till again—I am able to say it was the same crown I gave her—I had not lost sight of it—she gave it to Mr. Butlin to see if it was good, and he tried it—I saw him bend it, and he took it over to Mr. Serl—I did not go with him; I stayed in the shop—he came back and gave it me, and I took it back to my cousin's shop—when he gave me back the crown, I gave him back the five shillings I had received in change—when I got back to my cousin's shop, the prisoner was there waiting—I laid the crown on the counter and the prisoner took it up—I told her it was bad—she took it up and went out, and said "I have no more change; I must call for the
wool on Monday evening" I understood it—Mr. Butlin told me the crown was bad when he returned it to me.
WILLIAM BUTLIN . I am a baker, and live in Norland-road. The last witness came to my shop—I saw a crown taken from the till by my wife—she gave it me—I tried it in the detector, and found it was bad—I bent it—I tried it in two or three places—I took it to Mr. Serl, and returned it to the last witness.
MARY ANN NELL . I am assistant to Mrs. Howlett, of Shepherd's-bush. On 11th June the prisoner came to the shop, a little before 9 o'clock—I served her with an infant's cap, which she agreed to buy for 4s., 6d.—she gave me a half sovereign—I found it was very light—I gave it to Mrs. Hewlett.
CHARLOTTE HOWLETT . On Saturday, 11th June, I saw the prisoner in my shop, about 9 o'clock in the evening—I received a half sovereign from the last witness—I took it to Mr. Miller's shop for change—he kept it—I returned to my shop, and found the prisoner waiting there—I told her it was bad—she said she was not aware of it—she was given into custody.
JOSEPH MILLER . I keep the Mail Coach, at Shepherd's-bush. On that evening I received a half sovereign from the last witness—I found it was Very light—I bent it double on the counter with my fingers, and then bent it straight again—I gave it to the constable.
WILLIAM SERL (police sergeant, T 4). On Saturday, 11th June, I received a half-sovereign from the last witness, about 9 o'clock in the evening—this is it—I went to Mrs. Howlett's, and found the prisoner there—she was given into my custody—i had seen her go from Mrs. Ashford's shop, and watched her all the way to Mrs. Howlett's—Mr. Butlin had called my attention to her—when I took the prisoner she said she was a servant, but the would not tell where till she got to the station—she then said, "At No. 14, Westbourne-grove"—I went, but could not find anything of her.
Prisoner. I received the half sovereign for some work I did for a lady.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. DAWSON and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JANE SWEET . My husband is a corn dealer, and lives in Leather-lane. On 14th June the prisoner came, about 8 o'clock in the evening—I served him with half a quartern of flour—he gave me a half Crown—I gave him a shilling and two sixpences—they were all good—I am sure of that—he shook the change in his hand for two or three minutes, and then he said he would not take the flour; he would send his mistress for it—he required the half crown back—I told him I was quite sure he did not want the flour when he came into the shop—he put down the change which I gave him, but I found the shilling which he put down was not the one which I had given him—the shilling I gave him was a Victoria shilling, a new one—the one he put down was an old one, and much worn—I told him it was not the same shilling immediately—he declared that it was—(he had been in the shop before on a similar errand)—I took the shilling which he gave me, marked it, and gave it to the policeman—I went up stairs, and called my servant to fetch her master from the yard—the prisoner wished to leave the shop; in fact he did leave it for a moment, but our man prevented him—when I came down he was asking our man to let him go, and the man would not—the prisoner declared that I had given him the bad shilling—I sent for a constable, and gave him in charge, with the shilling, to the constable.
Prisoner. Q. When had I been in the shop? A. I cannot say when it was; it was some time ago; but I know you had been in the shop on a similar errand.
COURT. Q. What did he do? A. He came in one evening, in a great hurry, with half a crown for change—I took it, and said it was a bad one—he said, "That will do," and he went out.
GEORGE MARSHMAN . I am carman to Mr. Sweet. On 14th June my mistress called me, and said the prisoner had come in; he asked for half a quartern of flour, and said it was too dear—she said, "I suppose you want me to give, you your half crown back;" and she went to take the change up, and said, "This is not the shilling I gave you"—he declared it was—my mistress told me to call my master; and as I was going she said, "No, I will call the servant"—when she was gone, the prisoner took up the flour and the change, and was going out of the shop—I went behind him, and told him wherever he went I would follow him—he stood a minute, and came back, and I said to him, "It shows you are guilty; why did you want to take the flour and change, and go out of the shop?"—he said, "I will go now if you will let me"—my master then came, and I was sent for a policeman.
JOHN BURGESS (policeman, G 97). On 14th June, about 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner was given in my custody by Mrs. Sweet—he said, "I did not give her a bad shilling"—I received this bad shilling.
Prisoner. I had but one half crown; I went and called for half a quartern of flour—it was too dear—I never took the change off the counter—the half crown was all the money I had.
COURT to MRS. SWEET. Q. When you gave him the change what did he do? A. He held it in his hand about three minutes—I gave him the change in his hand—it was a shilling and two sixpences—I am quite sure it was a new shilling.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH ARGYLE . I was shopman to Mr. Turner, a draper, in High-street, Islington; I have now left. On 4th June the prisoner came there, and asked for two yards of calico—she paid me with a bad half crown—I told her it was bad—she said she did not know it, and if I would give it her back she would take it to where she got it from, and come back in a few minutes, and I was to keep the goods till she returned—I gave it her—she did not come back again—I am certain the shilling was bad—I tried it and bent it—on 18th June she came again for a pair of black stockings—she bought a pair at 10 1/2 d.—she paid with a bad half crown—I called the cashier, and gave it him—it was not out of my sight—it was a bad one—the prisoner was then given in charge—I gave the last half crown to the officer—I had seen the prisoner in the shop with bad money on 5th June, but I did not speak to her, as we were very busy; but I told the young men that that was the woman who had passed bad money—when she was given in custody for the last half crown I told her that she had been in the shop three times before—she said she had never been in the shop but once before—she said she lived at Peckham, but did not say where there.
at Mr. Turner's shop—she said she had been living a week with her daughter at Peckham, but she had got no home—this is the half crown.
Prisoner's Defence. I worked, and earned 4s.—I went to the shop for a pair of stockings, and he said it was a bad half crown.
GUILTY . Aged 57.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY LAMBERT . I keep the Printers' Arms, in New Church-court, Strand. On 2nd June, between 9 and 10 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came, and called for a pint of 6d. ale—she gave me a shilling—I put it in the till, and gave her change, a sixpence and 3d. worth of halfpence—I am sure there was nothing in the till but a few sixpences when I put the shilling in—when the prisoner was about to leave the place I thought it right to look at the shilling—it was the only shilling that was in the till—on looking at it more closely I found it was bad—she was then just outside the door—I sent the waiter for her, and gave him the shilling—he gave the prisoner in charge.
WILLIAM SAVORY . Mr. Lambert gave roe a shilling, and desired me to follow this woman—I found her in the same court, five or six yards off—there were two of them together—I asked the prisoner to come back, as she had passed a bad shilling—she said she would not come back—I kept her in sight till I saw a constable, and gave her in charge, with the shilling.
HANNAH GREEN . I am searcher at Bow-street station. The prisoner was brought in, and I was called to search her—there appeared to be something in her mouth—I mentioned it to her—she then took something out of her mouth, and threw it under the seat—I still thought I heard something rattle in her mouth, and called a constable—she went down on her knees, and said, "It is no use to call a constable in, I have swallowed it"—I looked under the seat, and there found a half crown—I marked it, and gave it to the officer.
GUILTY . Aged 31.— Confined Six Months ,
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
ANN DOBSON . I am the niece of Henry Dobson; he keeps a fish shop at Knightsbridge. On the afternoon of 7th June the prisoner came and wanted a haddock—I asked her 4d. for it—she stood some time, and wanted me to take 3d.—I said I could not—she went away, came back, and I agreed to take 3 1/2 d.—she paid me with a shilling—I tried it in the detector, and it was bad—I told her so—she said, "I just took it down the street; I will take it back to where I took it from"—I gave it her back—she went away, and did not come back to fetch the haddock.
CHARLES ANSLOW . I am a cab driver. On the afternoon of 15th June I was in the Swan, in Sloane-street, Knightsbridge, about half-past 12 o'clock at noon—the prisoner came in, and I saw her served with half a quartern of gin—she put down a shilling—I saw the barmaid examine it—she bent it, and got a pair of pincers, and broke it—she said, "This is a bad one"—the prisoner said, "I have got no more money; give me a 1d. worth; I have
only got a penny"—she threw the shilling back to the barmaid, who threw it back again—the prisoner went out—the barmaid asked me to follow her—she went into Hooper's-court, and there spoke to a man, who had a child, who I suppose was her husband—I did not hear what she said at first, but afterwards I heard her say, "Stop here till I come back"—she parted from him, and I followed her to Mrs. Lucas's shop, in High-street, Knightsbridge—I saw her go in, and when she came out I went in, and Mrs. Lucas gave me a counterfeit shilling—I bent it, followed the prisoner, and brought her back to the shop, called a constable, and Lucas gave her in charge—I gave the shilling back to Lucas.
HARRIET LUCAS . My mistress keeps an earthenware shop in High-street, Knightsbridge. On 15th June the prisoner came and wanted a baking dish—the price of it was 10d.—she wanted me to take 9d.—I told her I could not, and she asked me to put in a little basin, which I consented to—she gave me a shilling—I gave her 2d. change—she left the shop, and the last witness came in—from what he told me I examined the shilling, and found it was bad—I gave it to him—I saw him bend it—he followed the prisoner, and brought her back—I gave her into custody—the shilling I gave him was the same I received from the prisoner; I had not another in the till—when he brought the prisoner back he gave the shilling to me—the prisoner snatched it out of my hand, and broke it in two pieces—she returned one piece to me, and threw the other away—I saw a little boy pick it up—he brought it to the shop, and gave it to me—I delivered both the parts to the constable.
ROBERT CLARK (policeman, B 57). I took the prisoner in the Highroad, Knightsbridge—I received this broken shilling from the last witness—I requested the prisoner to allow Lucas to search her pocket—she refused—I requested her to let me search her—I took from her pocket three sixpences, one 4d. piece, and 5 3/4 d., in copper, all good—she said she did not care; I could only give her a b—y month for it; I could not transport her.
GUILTY . Aged 31.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN, DAWSON, and POLAND, conducted the Prosecution.
MART ANN LAMPARD . I am in the service of Mr. Stimpson, who keeps the Antelope, in Pimlico. On Saturday, 11th June, the prisoner came between I and 2 o'clock—I served him with a glass of half and half—he gave me a shilling—I gave him 10 1/2 d. change—I put the shilling in the till—there were two half crowns, but no other shilling there—in a short time Mr. Stimpson went to the till—no one had been there in the meantime—he took the shilling out, and told me I bad taken a bad shilling—he laid it down on the mantelpiece, and in the evening he threw it on the fire—on 13th June the prisoner came again, about the same time in the afternoon—I served him with 2d. worth of gin and cold water, he paid me with a shilling, I gave him 10d. change, and put the shilling in the till, there was no other shilling there—Mr. Stimpson went to the till afterwards—no one had been there in the meantime, he took that shilling out and laid it on one side—I looked at it, it was a bad one—on Thursday 16th, the prisoner came again about a quarter before 2 o'clock, I served him with a glass of half and half—he gave me a shilling in payment for that—I recollected the man by his making a similar remark to one he had made before, about the weather—that led me to notice the shilling, I noticed it was a similar one to the other
two—I told him it was bad—I called Mr. Stimpson from the cellar, and gave it him.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Did you not say that Mr. Stimpson had put both the shillings in the fire? A. Yes; but he put it on one side—I serve occasionally in the bar—I serve every day.
MR. DAWSON. Q. Had you an opportunity of hearing the prisoner speak two or three times? A. Yes; I recognised the similarity of his voice, and his general appearance.
THOMAS STIMPSON . I am landlord of the Antelope. On 11th June I took a shilling out of my till, it was bad—the girl said that I put it in the fire, that is the way we do with bad money—I could not swear I did so with that—on the 13th I found another shilling there, I took it out and put it on the mantelpiece—I put it from there to the cash box, and I gave it to the constable on the day the prisoner was examined at Westminster—On 16th June I was called up from the cellar by the last witness, she gave me the shilling in the cellar, I went up and found the prisoner there at my bar—I said to him, "Did you pass this shilling"—he said, "Yes, is it a bad one"—I said, "Yes, and I will give you in charge"—he said, "I will give you another one for it"—I said to the witness, "Is this the person who passed the other shillings"—she said, "Yes"—I sent for a constable, and gave him in charge with the third shilling—the second one I took to Westminster, and gave it to the constable—the second shilling had been in the meantime in the cash box, which was locked—no one had been there but me.
Cross-examined. Q. You did not give the second shilling till the 20th? A. No; that was the day of the second hearing before the Magistrate—I marked the second shilling on the 20th—I cannot tell how long it remained on the mantelpiece before I put it in the cash box, but no one was in the bar but myself till I put it in the cash box.
MATTHEW BAILEY (policeman, B 133). On 16th June the prisoner was given into my custody at the Antelope—I received from the last witness a bad shilling—this is it; and on 20th June I received this other bad shilling from him—I found on the prisoner three shillings, one sixpence, and 7d. in copper—he gave his address No. 22, St. Clement's-lane, Strand—I went there, and could not hear anything of him.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you ask him whereabouts the house was? A. No; I went to No. 22—I did not go anywhere else—I did not go back and tell him I could not find it—I told the Magistrate so—I have not anybody here from any house in St. Clement's-lane.
GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Six Months
MESSRS. DAWSON and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE BROWN . I am barman at the Dolphin, in Whitechapel-road. On 25th June the prisoner came about half-past 6 o'clock in the morning—she asked for half a quartern of gin—I served her, she gave me a half crown—I examined it, tried it with my teeth, and bent it—it was bad—the prisoner got away as quickly as she could—I put the half crown on a shelf at the back of the counter—I gave it afterwards to the policeman—I am sure it was the one I took from the prisoner—I am quite sure she is the woman.
Prisoner. You know I never was in the place; you know you are not telling the truth. Witness. It was you.
SARAH GRIMES . My husband keeps the Hat and Plough, in High-street, Whitechapel. On 27th June the prisoner came between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening—she was served with some porter—she gave me half a crown—I put it in the till—there was no other half crown there—I gave her change, and she left—in a few minutes my barman went to the till—(no one had been there in the mean time)—in consequence of something he said, I took the half crown out; I found it was bad—I bent it, and kept it in my possession—in about twenty minutes the prisoner came again—she was served by my barman Carter, and he gave me a second half crown—I saw the prisoner give it him—I gave the first and second half crown to the officer.
JAMES CARTER . I am barman at the Hat and Plough. I saw the prisoner on 27th June; she asked for a pot of porter, and gave me a half crown—I detained it, and gave it to my mistress—the prisoner ran out, I jumped over the counter, and detained the prisoner till I got a constable.
ALFRED ALEXANDER HALL (policeman, H 127). On 27th June I took the prisoner, and received the two half crowns from Mrs. Grimes—the prisoner said she was a respectable married woman, and bad got a family of children—she said at the station that she was an unfortunate woman—she gave an address—I went there, but could not hear anything of her.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. DAWSON and POLAND conducted the Prosecution,
MARY WISKAR . I am barmaid at the Red Lion, St. George's-in—the East. On 28th June the prisoner came about half-past 8 o'clock in the evening—he asked for half a quartern of gin, I served him—he threw down a shilling; I looked at it, took it up, and tried it with my teeth—I told him it was a bad one, and he then threw down a half crown, and said, "Take it out of that"—I examined that with my teeth, found it was bad, and sent for a policeman—the prisoner walked out—I gave the policeman a description of the prisoner, and he went and brought him back—he was the same man—I gave him in charge, with the shilling and half crown.
JAMES GILLETT (policeman, H 80). On 28th June the prisoner was given into my custody by the last witness, at the Red Lion—on the way to the station the prisoner said he knew he had done wrong, and he had changed forty before—when I apprehended him he was in front of St. Katharine's Docks, walking very slowly, with his hands in front of him—when I took him he appeared to be drunk, but he was not so—this is the shilling and half crown (produced),
GUILTY . Aged 42.— Confined Six Months ,
MESSRS. DAWSON and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
REBECCA FEBRAI . I keep a shop in Oakey-street, Warrington-square. On 21st June the prisoner came there, about half-past 9 o'clock in the evening—I served him with a half quartern loaf, he gave me a half crown—I examined it, and found it was bad—I told him so, and he put down a good shilling—a constable came in, I gave the half crown to him, and gave the prisoner into custody.
JAMES ABRAHAMS (policeman, S 296). On 21st June I was on duty in plain clothes—I saw the prisoner in company with another one—I had known the prisoner previously—I watched him, and saw him go into the last witness's shop—I went in and took him—he said, "Well, you may take me, and lock me up till Saturday, and then I shall be turned up"—Saturday is the day on which all persons passing bad money are remanded to, and if there is nothing known of them then they are turned up, that is, discharged—at the station the prisoner said, "You can search me, I have got no more on me; I am too clever for you"—I found he had no more, only two good shillings.
Prisoner's Defence. What the constable says is quite false about my saying I might be locked up till Saturday, and then turned up; he certainly knew me, from my being in custody four years ago, and by seeing me about Somers-town.
GUILTY .* Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE EDWIN FLETCHER (policeman, T 110). I attended the examination of the prisoners at the police court at Hammersmith—I saw. Mrs. Weatherly there—she was examined, and her deposition was read over to her, in the prisoners' presence—they had the opportunity of cross-examining her—(deposition read: "Ann Elizabeth Weatherly—' I am the wife of John Weatherly, and live at the Half Moon, Brentford End. On Wednesday evening, 15th June, about 8 o'clock, the prisoners Bond and Fitzgerald came to our house; I served them with a pint of beer, and Bond gave me a half crown; before I took up the half crown, the prisoner Young came in, and asked for half a pint of beer; I served him, and he put down a shilling; I gave Bond the change out of his half crown, and Young the change out of his shilling; I picked up the two coins; Young immediately left the house, leaving half his beer behind him; Bond and Fitzgerald went into the tap room; I bit the shilling, and found it was bad, and sent my potboy to fetch Young back, and he did so; I told him it was bad, and he gave me a good shilling; I returned the bad shiling, and he bit it, and went away; I then tried the half crown; I found that to be bad; I went into the tap room to Bond and Fitzgerald, and told them they had given me a bad half crown; Bond said if it was bad he should be the loser of 1s. 6d., as he had held a gentleman's horse on the race-course, and had given him 1s. 6d. change out of that half crown; Bond bit and bent the half crown, and between them they made up the sum of 2s. 8d.; I asked them if they knew that third party that came in behind them, for his shilling was bad; they said, "No;" they remained a short time in the tap room, drank their beer, and left the house.")
ELIZABETH CLARK . I keep the Gardeners' Arms, at Brentford. On Wednesday, 15th June, Young and Fitzgerald came to my house—my daughter served them with half a pint of cider—I saw Fitzgerald pay my daughter a shilling, and Young gave me a shilling to pay for half a pint of cider—I said it was a bad one—he said he was sorry, and he would give me another—I returned it to him, and he paid with a good one—he went out of the door, and was gone for some little time—he came back, and said, "You have not given me the right change"—he laid the change down on the
counter—there was 10d.—I had given him 10 1/2 d.—I told him I had given it right, and I should give no more—he stopped some time, and afterwards went away—after he was gone my daughter brought a shilling to me—it was bad—I weighed it, and marked it, and gave it to the constable.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You keep a beershop? A. Yes; sometimes we have a good many people in the shop, and sometimes but few—this took place about half-past 9 o'clock in the evening—there were not a good many other persons drinking at that time—Fitzgerald came in first, and drank his cider, and went away, before Young came in at all—I had no previous acquaintance with Young—I had told the officer that I had taken the money, and he went and got the men—he told me he thought he had the men—I went to Hammersmith police station, and I saw Young in the deposition room by the side of the Magistrate—I was in the room before he came, and he was brought in—the policeman did not introduce him to my notice; certainly not—the solicitor asked me who I knew, and I pointed to these persons—the three prisoners were there, and another person who has been discharged, a boy; I have seen nothing of him since—they brought these persons in, as the persons who passed bad money at my shop.
MR. BODKIN. Q. How long after Fitzgerald had succeeded in passing a bad shilling did Young come in with another? A. In a few minutes; no officer or anybody else pointed out anybody, or influenced me in identifying these men—I knew them directly—Young came back—I saw him twice.
MATILDA HESTER CLARK . I am a daughter of the last witness. I assist her in managing her business—I remember Fitzgerald and Young coming on 15th June; I am sure of them—Fitzgerald came first—he asked for half a pint of cider—I served him—he paid me with a shilling—I took it as a good one, and gave him 10 1/2 d. in change—he went away directly he drank his cider—I afterwards gave that shilling to my mother—after Fitzgerald was gone Young came in; he asked for half a pint of cider—he proposed to pay with a shilling—my mother attended to him, and received the shilling from him—after he had gone he returned and complained of not having the right change—my mother would not give him any more—I had then a second opportunity of seeing him—I am quite sure these are the two men.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe you had never seen Young before? A. No; he passed this money on Wednesday, and I saw him two days afterwards, on the Friday, at the Court—my mother did not go there till the Friday week—I am sure about that—it is not true that my mother went the first Friday—I was the only one who went the first Friday—it was at the Hammersmith police station—I saw Young before the Magistrate—the other two prisoners were there, and a boy that was taken—the policeman did not tell me that they were the men he had taken for passing bad money at our house—I was told that our case was then called on, and these were the prisoners—there were no other persons at our house on the night Young was there.
Q. Have you not said that you could not identify any of them? A. I did on the first Friday, because I only saw the side face of Fitzgerald—I did not say I was afraid I should not be able to swear positively to any of them—I said I did not know him.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was what you said in reference to Fitzgerald, and him only? Yes; I knew Young directly—I had no doubt about his being the man—I only saw Fitzgerald's side face, and without his cap—his cap was not put on that day, but it was the next day—I have no doubt that he is the man.
night, 15th June; I went along the Brentford-road, towards London—I saw the three prisoners and a boy talking together in the Brentford-road—they then separated—Fitzgerald and the boy went on one side, and Bond and Young on the other—I went up to Bond and Young, took them in custody, and told them it was for passing bad money—I laid hold of them, but Young put his hand in the breast of his coat, and ran across the road—I saw him throw away something over Mr. Bayley's premises, but I could not see what—another constable was on the other side of the road, about 150 yards from me—I took Bond to the station, and found on him 12s. and a farthing, good money, principally in sixpences and 4d.-pieces—a man stopped Young, and he was taken.
DAVID ACRES (policeman, T 111.) I accompanied Fletcher in pursuit of these men—he took Bond and Young—Young ran across the road to where I was standing—I saw him throw something over the wall of Mr. Bayley's premises—I searched there about 3 o'clock in the morning, as soon as it got daylight, and found twenty-six counterfeit shillings three or four feet from the wall, in this old rag, and wrapped in paper to separate each shilling from another—Mr. Bayley's premises are enclosed—it is called Linden-grove.
JOHN HUBAND . I am a labourer. On Wednesday evening, 15th June, I was in the Brentford-road—I saw the prisoners and a boy talking along the road—Bond and Young went towards the John Bull, and the boy and Fitzgerald went a little way in the road—they sat down by the road side, and I passed them—they then all passed me again, and went into Mr. Maye's house, and I saw Young passing something into Fitzgerald's hand—they then passed a little before me, and the officers came and took them—Young escaped, and I stopped him.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . This shilling which was received from Mrs. Clark is bad—these thrown away by Young are all counterfeit; eleven of them are George the 3rd—five are from one mould and six from another—fifteen of them are William the 4th; five of them are from the same mould as the one uttered by Fitzgerald—the other ten are from one mould—they are all bad.
Bond's Defence. I was coming home on Wednesday night, and met Young, and Fitzgerald, and the boy, on the Brentford-road; I was walking along, when the officer came and took me.
BOND. GUILTY .—Aged 20,
YOUNG. GUILTY .—Aged 23.
FITZGERALD. GUILTY .—Aged 22. Confined Eighteen Months.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY WILLIAM TAME . I am a cow keeper, and live at Prince's-row, Notting-hill. I have known the prisoner two or three years—there was a little dealing between us—in May last there was no money due by me to the prisoner—on 24th May Hutchins came to my house between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening—Duffield was with him—he banded me this piece of paper, and said "I have brought this paper, a writ from Mr. Lewis"—I said I did not owe Mr. Lewis anything at all—he said, Mr. Lewis instructed him to take any sum of money he could get from me—he said, could I give him 10s. he would take that and give me a receipt, and I should have no more trouble—I said, "No, not a farthing"—he called me on one side, and said "Can't you manage to give me 5s.?" I said, "No, not a farthing"—he then
left—he came to my sister's house, where I lodge, two or three times, but I was not at home—Duffield was present when the writ was given to me, but I do not think he heard the conversation.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Was not the prisoner taken before a Magistrate? A. Yes; he was not discharged—Hutchings was charged—he was remanded, and the case against him was dismissed—I have known the prisoner three or four years—he has not been continually in my employment—I employed him to collect money for me—I only spoke to him once about it—I gave him so many debts at one time—I do not remember giving him more afterwards—that is about a year and a half ago—he sent me in a bill after I had sued him at the County Court—he did not make a charge against me for remuneration for the trouble and expense he had been put to in trying to collect my debts—he never said anything to me about it.
Q. Do you pledge your oath that he did not, before you sued him, tell you that you were indebted to him? A. He said indebted to him, but he did not say how much—I have no memorandum of his making a demand on me—he never sent in the bill for the demand—I never had a bill sent to me.
Q. Did he not, long before you sued him in the County Court, make a demand for remuneration for collecting your debts? A. It is so long ago, I cannot give a decided answer—he never asked me for remuneration, or recompense, or payment, before I sued him—he sent a man with a bill to me afterwards—when I sued him in the County Court he pleaded a set off against my claim, and I believe his set off was allowed—he did not say in the Court that I was still further indebted to him—he did not say in my presence that I was indebted to him in a still greater amount—I sued him because he never gave me the money that he had collected—he never gave me any money at all—I cannot say exactly how much the debts amounted to—I keep the books, but the books are not with me—I do not know whether the debts I gave him to collect were in these books—I can tell very nigh what amount they were; it was about 3l. altogether—he did not, after the County Court business, send me in a bill of 1l. 8s. for collecting; it was 15s.—the bill was sent to me afterwards—I believe he sent it by Mr. Watts, and that person in his name demanded payment—he said he brought it from Mr. Lewis—I have not that bill here; it is on the file at my brother's—I cannot say exactly when that bill was brought to me—I believe the County Court business was in April—he sent the bill in a week afterwards—he made no applications to me for payment of the 15s.—Mr. Watts made application when he brought the bill—I received this copy of a writ about 24th May—I sued the prisoner for 17s. 4d. in the County Court—I gave him very nearly 3l. in debts to collect—that was long before May—he did collect some of the debts; I know that by his handwriting on the bills—I had witnesses to prove at the County Court that he received them—I have received other money.
Mr. RIBTON. Q. You authorized him to receive some debts, amounting to about 3l.? A. Yes; he did receive part of that, and it was for that I sued him, 17s. 4d.—I believe he pleaded at the County Court that I was indebted to him—I do not know what was the amount of the set-off—the set-off was allowed by the Judge—this was in April, and after that he sent a bill by Watts for 15s.—I refused to pay him—I did not owe him 15s., or any sum of money—whatever sums he collected, I have never received any of the money.
to collect? A. More than twelve months; I know that from time to time he was calling and dunning the people for the money—there was no sale of any property of mine—there was a negotiation about the sale of some property to my brother—I did not instruct the prisoner to draw up an agreement; he drew it up of his own accord—I drew up one myself, and he drew one—he did draw up an agreement between me and the other party after he and I had some conversation about it—he charged nothing for doing it at the time, and I stood a pot of ale—he has since made a charge of 10s.
COURT. Q. Did you employ him to make this agreement? A. No; he did it on his own account—I drew one, and he said, "It won't do," and he drew me one up, and charged me nothing for it.
WILLIAM HUTCHINGS . I am a commission agent. About 12th May I saw the prisoner at the Yorkshire Stingo—this is my handwriting on this writ—I filled it up at the Yorkshire Stingo—the prisoner gave me directions so to do—after I filled it up I handed it back to him—he kept it a fortnight—on 23rd May I saw him again at the Yorkshire Stingo—he then made an appointment for me to meet him at his house, in the Latimer-road, on the 24th—I went, and he was not at home—I was directed to another house, the Hand and Friend beershop, in the Harrow-road—I saw him there, and he handed me this same paper that I had filled up—he gave me directions to serve it on Tame, for which he said he would give me 2s.—I was directed to call on Mrs. Lewis for the 2s.—he said I was to come to some arrangement, if I possibly could, with Tame; if I could get 10s., I was to take it; and if not, 5s.; and if I could not get 5s., I was to come to some arrangement with him—in consequence of these instructions, I went to Mr. Tame the same day—I think about 6 o'clock in the evening I saw him, and in due form I served him with this paper—I left it with him.—I said the same terms to him as I was directed to speak by Lewis—he said he should neither pay 10s. nor 5s., nor come to any arrangement, for he did not owe the money—I have been in the habit of serving writs before.
Cross-examined. Q. How long haveyouknown Lewis? A. By attending the Marylebone County Court, three or four years—he told me that Tame owed him 15s., and he mentioned it at the Marylebone County Court, and said he had no doubt if he were summoned he would pay.
JAMES DUFFIELD . I am a collector of debts by commission. I was present on 24th May, at the Hand and Friend, when the last witness and the prisoner were there—the prisoner handed a copy of a writ to Hutchings, and told him to serve that on Tame, and if he could get 10s. he was to get it; if not, to take 5s.; and to call on his wife, and she would give him 2s.—I did not have it in my hand—I think I said to Lewis, "Have you got the original?" and he said, "I is all right. "
ISAAC BURMAN . I am in the Exchequer-office. A principe is brought to the office by the person who wants to get a writ—the principe is left and filed with us—we have the means of knowing whether a writ has been issued from the office—this is one of the ordinary forms they get at the stationer's—it is filled up at the time it is left with us—the original is stamped by us—the person who gets it keeps the original, and serves a copy—this is a copy—supposing there had been a writ, there would be a principe on the file—I have searched the file, and there is no such name there—if there had been a writ, it would have been there at the present time.
GUILTY. Aged 53.— Recommended to mercy by the Jury.—Judgment Respited.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, July 6th, 1853.
PRESENT—The LORD MAYOR; Mr. Justice TALFOURD; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. Ald. WIRE; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Talfourd and the Third Jury.
MESSRS. PARRY and SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution.
(MR. SERJEANT MILLER appeared on behalf of the prisoner Cunningham, MR. DUNCAN for Currie, and MR. ROBINSON for Thomas.)
(The particulars of the case were of a nature totally unfit for publication.)
CUNNINGHAM— GUILTY . Aged 48.— Transported for Fifteen Years.
CURRIE and THOMAS— NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, July 6th, 1853.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; and MR. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Eight Months.
GUILTY .** Aged 72.— Confined Twelve Months.
EDMUND HALL . I am a soldier, of the Coldstream Guards. On 29th June, about 11 o'clock in the evening, I was in the Crooked Billet, on Tower-hill, sitting in front of the bar, and William Thomson was on my right hand side; he was rather the worse for liquor, but was sensible enough to know that he lost something—he was sitting between the two prisoners—I saw Foley put his hand in Thomson's pocket, and take out a box—he shook it, and I heard something like money in it—he then knocked Thomson down, gave the box into the hands of Justice, and they both went out together.
ROBERT CHICKLEY (police sergeant). On 29th June, about 11 o'clock, I saw Justice run out of the Crooked Billet, and Foley followed him close, without his cap—in consequence of information I overtook them, and desired them to come back with me—I saw Justice put his hand in his pocket; I did not see him give anything to the constable, but I saw the constable take something from his pocket—Thomson gave them in charge—coming out of the public house I saw Foley's hand closed, and in it I found 1s. 4d.—he said, "I have not got the box; the other one has got the box in his pocket."
WILLIAM THOMSON . I am a mason. On 29th June I went to the Crooked Billet, Tower-hill—I was tolerably drunk—I recollect sitting between two soldiers—I paid some money out of a box in my jacket pocket, and they saw it—I drank with them—I afterwards felt one of them at my pocket, and asked him what he wanted; he said he wanted bacca—that was not the pocket the box was in—he afterwards knocked me down, and then took the box from me—this is my box (produced)—there were three sovereigns in it at first, but I changed one of them.
Foley. Q. Did you tell me not to go away? A. No; I did not say I had been in company with some girls, who took my money from me—the box was not in my hand; you knocked me down, and took it from my pocket.
Foley's Defence. I have been nearly fourteen years in the service; the prosecutor was as full of beer as he could hold; I never took the box out of his pocket; he had it in his hand, and a man took it from him, and said to me, "Let us divide it," and I said, "No. "
Justice's Defence. I was just going out of the house, and this man handed me the box, and I went out with it; he came out after me, and said it was Thomson's box; I said, "Then, take it back again;" I never saw the other prisoner before.
(Justice received a good character.)
FOLEY— GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Twelve Months.
JUSTICE— GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.
Confined Two Months.
797. JOHN LEONARD, WILLIAM CONNETT , and WILLIAM MORRIS , were indicted for stealing I purse, value 6d., and 1s. 8 1/4 d. in money; the property of a certain woman whose name is unknown, from her person.
CHARLES BRYANT . I live at the Tiger public house, Tower-hill. On 29th June, I was at the first floor window looking at some tumblers—a good many people were looking on—the prisoners walked round the ring several times, close together—I saw Morris feel several ladies' pockets as he went round; Leonard was right at his back, and Connett was a little distance from him, about a couple of yards behind—they both could see what Morris was doing—after feeling several ladies' pockets, Connett and Leonard went and stood by a post, while Morris stood against the mob—Morris then went to them, and stood with them a few minutes—two ladies then came by the crowd, and went to look over the people's shoulders to see the conjuring; Morris walked towards them, followed close behind by Leonard—Connett then left the post, and went after them—Leonard kept his hands at his coat behind Morris, and Connett was standing behind Leonard—the lady raised herself up to look over the people's shoulders, and Morris tried to put his hand in her pocket, but she made two or three moves—I then saw him put his hand in her pocket, and she moved; he then moved close up to her, and gave her a bit of a shove, and pulled her purse out; I saw the beads at the end of it, as he was putting it into his left hand pocket—he then walked towards Thames-street, and the other two followed him—I went out and saw Connett and Leonard at the corner of Thames-street; I followed behind them a few yards, and heard Connett say to Leonard, "Make haste," or
"Look sharp"—I saw a City policeman, called him, and ran after Morris, who I took, and told him he had been picking a lady's pocket—he said, "Me! I have not done such a thing;" I said, "You have, and you have got it in this pocket"—I pulled his hand out of his pocket, and the purse fell out at the bottom of his trowsers' leg; the policeman picked it up directly—I stopped Morris—the other two came up, and I pointed them out to the policeman; I left them with him, and went to find the lady, but could not see her.
Cross-examined by MR. WOOLLETT. Q. There was a very large crowd? A. Yes; I was sitting up stairs at the first floor window, and had to look over the crowd—I had not seen Connett before—no other persons talked to Leonard.
GEORGE HYDE (City policeman, No. 516). I took the prisoners—I began to search Morris, and he said, "I have not got any purse at all"—while searching him, I saw the end of this purse (produced) hanging from the leg of his trowsers; I took it from him, and he said, "I did not take it from anybody's pocket, I found it on Tower-hill, and put it in my pocket"—Connett said, "I do not know anything of them two, I have only just left my master"—Leonard said, "I do not known anything of this boy. "
Leonard's Defence. I saw the crowd, and thinking it was men called to the wharf, I went, thinking to get a job, and found this boy in custody; I had not been in the crowd at all.
Morris's Defence. I was coming across Tower-hill, and saw something shining; it was a purse; I picked it up, looked at it, and put in my pocket.
GUILTY.(The prisoner Connett was further charged with having been previously convicted.)
GEORGE JOSEPH BROWN (policeman, K 47). I produce a certificate from Clerkenwell—(read: William Connett, convicted, Jan., 1847, of stealing a handkerchief from the person; Confined three months)—I was present, Connett is the person.
Connett. I have been at work very hard since that, and I was not with the other prisoners at all. Witness. He has been in custody repeatedly since, and has been summarily convicted.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you present when he was summarily convicted? A. Yes; at the Thames police court—I cannot call the date to mind, but I think it was two years ago—he was locked up for stealing some things from Spitalfields market—I was not present, but it occurred at our station.
COURT. Q. How often have you known him convicted of your own knowledge? A. Only at this time which I produce the certificate of, but I have been called upon before the Magistrate, when he has been acquitted—he has never done any work.
CONNETT— GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Eighteen Months.
LEONARD— GUILTY .—Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
MORRIS— GUILTY . Aged 14. Confined Six Months.
MICHAEL HAYDON (City policeman). On Saturday afternoon, 25th June, about half past 4 o'clock, I was with Bassett, on the Surrey side of London-bridge, and saw the prisoner who I knew; we followed him into the City, he went down Arthur-street, King William-street, and East Cheap—there was no one with him—I and Bassett spoke together, in consequence of which I
remained opposite the prosecutor, Mr. Jannings's shop, for five or ten minutes, and saw the prisoner come out from there—I had not seen him go in—I went into the shop and said something, and then joined Bassett—we went along Lime-street, Leadenhall-street, and Bishopgate-street—we still saw the prisoner; he went into an oil shop, and came out with three sheets of brown paper in his hand; he went to the corner of Liverpool-street, where I went up to him, and saw something bulky under his coat—he went along Bishopsgate-street, took these handkerchiefs (produced) from under his coat, and put them into the brown paper—we then stopped him, and laid hold of the parcel—in reply to what I said to him, he told me he had bought the handkerchiefs in Manchester of a man named Hartman, whose address he did not know, and that he got his living by selling such things—I took him back to the shop, and the property was identified.
Cross-examined by MR. DUNCAN. Q. Did you take them from his pocket? A. No; from underneath his coat—I do not know whether he had a breast pocket; they seemed to be lower down than that—I am sure he said Manchester.
CORNELIUS BASSETT (City policeman), I was with Haydon, following the prisoner—I saw him go into Mr. Jannings' shop, and come out about ten minutes afterwards—he kept his left arm close to his side, ran across Fenchurch-street, and then walked hurriedly away down Lime-street—we followed him—he went into an oil shop and got some brown paper, into which he put the handkerchiefs in Liverpool-street—we stopped him, took him to Mr. Jannings' shop, and the handkerchiefs were identified.
HART DAVIES . I am assistant to Mr. Jannings, a hosier. On 25th June, about half past 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the prisoner came and asked to look at a black handkerchief with embroidered corners—I showed him some, but we had not got exactly what he wanted—I went to the other end of the shop to inquire if we had anything likely to suit him, leaving him at the counter, and the handkerchiefs before him—I returned to him, and said those were the nearest we had got—he then asked to look at some white embroidered waistcoats—I took him up stairs, but not having anything likely to suit him, we came down again—he asked me if I could get them for him—I said I would endeavour to do so, and he said he would call again on Tuesday, and asked me for a card of the shop—he made no purchase—I know these handkerchiefs, they belong to Charles Jannings; some of them have his private mark on them—I did not miss any till Haydon brought the prisoner to the shop, but when we were shown the handkerchiefs we knew them to be our goods—I cannot positively say how many were gone, but we found that the stock was short.
Cross-examined, Q. What is the value of them all put together? A. 2 I observed no bulk about the prisoner as he left the shop—Haydon came about half an hour afterwards, and I said I had not missed anything; but directly I saw them I identified them—I only identify positively these three with the private mark on them—I cannot say whether Mr. Jannings keeps a stock book; I have never seen one; I have been there five years—three young men and a youth serve in the shop besides me—I remember that these handkerchiefs were in stock the day before, and I have made inquiries, and found they have not been sold—we mark all goods with a private mark, but it occasionally gets off—the mark is in Mr. Jannings' writing—he is not here—I know his writing; these tickets are his writing—we never leave marks on handkerchiefs when we sell them.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
GUILTY. Aged 38.— Transported for Seven Years.
(See also page 125).
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, July 6th, 1853.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. WIRE; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 39.— Confined Eighteen Months.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner, upon which no evidence was offered.)
MESSRS. BODKIN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN (police inspector). On Saturday, 4th June, in consequence of information, I went to No. 14, Newton-street, Holborn, accompanied by Maskall and another officer—I went to the back room on the third floor, it was about a quarter past 6 o'clock in the evening—I found the two prisoners in the room, and another man—on my entering the room, Newton stood up, and picked from off the hob some pieces of plaster of Paris mould, and dashed them into the fire—I said I belonged to the police, and I seized hold of him—a part of the mould was scattered from the fire on the floor, and he commenced trampling upon them—I seized him, and he resisted violently—I pulled him from the fireplace, and pushed him back against the window, and his head came against the frame; I then put him into the hands of Sergeant Maskall—while I was engaged with Newton, I saw Price throw something on the fire—I saw two shillings distinctly, and they melted—another shilling went into the crucible—I saw her throw more than two shillings out of her hand—one of them went into this crucible, and I got it off before it was quite melted—this is the crucible, with part of the shilling in it—I also took from the fireplace these moulds for casting 4d.-pieces—one mould is whole, and there are several other pieces of moulds—they were in the fire, near where a pipkin was—some of these pieces I found on the floor, which I prevented Newton from destroying—these are moulds for casting 4d., pieces, and here is a mould for making shillings—on the table near the fire was this jar, and in it I found thirty-nine counterfeit shillings (produced)—in a little box on the mantelshelf there were four counterfeit sixpences, and fourteen fourpenny counterfeit pieces—the fourpenny pieces are finished—the shillings are not finished—some of the sixpences are finished—on the table I found this file with white metal in its teeth—on the window cill I found a galvanic battery, wire, and plate; also a jar, and a jar containing acid solution, a portion of which I have got—I went to the cupboard, and in it I found this piece of glass, which is used for making plaster of Paris moulds, bearing on it marks of plaster of Paris, and some sand, which is also used—I forgot to mention that in the jar which was on the table there was, I believe, seventeen sixpences,
some finished and some unfinished—I saw the other officer take Price, and saw her drop a sixpence from her hand, or from her dress.
Cross-examined by MR. BAILEY. Q. Where were those moulds? A. On the hob of the stove; there was another man in the room—another officer took him, and he was discharged before the Magistrate at Bow-street—directly I entered the door, Newton threw some moulds into the fire, and then he commenced trampling on some—I laid hold of him—it was after he was trampling that I rushed up and seized him.
COURT. Q. You said before that you seized him, and he began trampling, and now you say you seized him afterwards? A. It was all the work of a moment; he commenced trampling before I could get across the table to him—I am sure of that.
WILLIAM HENRY MASKALL (policeman, A 403). I accompanied the last witness to the house where the seizure took place—when I entered I saw Newton take the moulds from the hob, and dash them into the fire—he was immediately seized by Brannan—he resisted very violently—some portion of the moulds remained in the fire, and some flew out on the floor, and Newton commenced trampling on them as soon as ever they were on the floor—Brannan seized him, it was all the act of a moment—I assisted in removing him to the other side of the room; he was there given into custody—I searched him on the spot; in his left hand waistcoat pocket I found three paper parcels containing counterfeit coin—one parcel contained ten shillings, the next five shillings, and the other twenty counterfeit sixpences—they appeared to be in a finished state, and were wrapped up separately—in his right hand waistcoat pocket I found a good half crown—he was then taken to the station house.
THOMAS EVANS (policeman, G 145). On 4th June I accompanied the other officers to No. 14, Newton-street—I took Price—I took her to the corner of the room, and found she was very fidgetty—I asked what she had got in her pocket; she said, "Nothing"—I said, "Turn out your pocket;" and this, a counterfeit 6d., dropped from her hand as she was turning out her pocket—she gave me a little box out of her pocket, which contained three good shillings and two good sixpences—I examined the mantelshelf, and found three counterfeit shillings—I did not ask Price any questions; she said she knew nothing about the affair; that she had come up there to see the young man, and she did not live there.
Price. William Harvey gave me that box. Witness. There was a man taken of the name of Harvey; he was discharged.
COURT. Q. When she said she came to see the young man, did she mean Harvey or Newton? A. Newton; because he was near to her—Harvey was at a distance—he was in the room—I understood her to mean Newton.
Price. William Harvey had something in his mouth, and he threw down the money; I had nothing in my hand. Witness. Yes; she had the 6d. in her hand, I have no doubt—it did not come from her pocket, I saw it come from her hand—it did not come from the young man; he was at some distance—the room is not very large.
JOHN KING . I am porter to Mr. Brown, of Holborn. He is the landlord of No. 14, Newton-street—I remember the prisoners applying for a room in that house on 21st May—it was the back room on the third floor—they were, to pay 2s. a week—they were both together—I went and showed them the room—I came back nearly to my master's shop, and then left them—I have been in the house, and seen them going up and down the stairs—sometimes the man, and sometimes the woman—I saw the woman in the house once or twice.
JAMES HASLETT . I am in the employ of Mr. Brown, I collect the rents of the house in Newton-street—I have collected the rent of the room occupied by the prisoners—the woman paid one shilling on 21st May, when the room was taken—they were only there a fortnight—the woman paid the first shilling that was advanced, and after they had been there a week another shilling was brought to me by King—I am sure he brought it to me—that was all I received.
JOHN KING re-examined. I took a shilling to Haslett for the first week's rent—I received it of Newton in the house; he was coming down the stairs, and gave it to me—I saw the woman in the house about twice—she had her bonnet on—I never saw her in the room.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. This is part of a crucible for melting metal, and there is a little fused metal on the side of it—here is the part of a shilling that was found in it—these moulds are for casting 4d. pieces, and here are a lot of 4d. pieces cast in this mould—here is part of a mould for casting shillings—here is just enough of it left to prove that some shillings which are produced were cast in it—here are thirty-nine counterfeit shillings, and most of them were cast in this mould—these seventeen sixpences are all counterfeit, and are in an unfinished state—here is a file with white metal in the teeth of it—it is used for clearing the coin—here is part of a galvanic battery; the cup, and plate, and wire—these are used for the purpose of electrotyping the coin—this piece of glass is used for preparing the mould, and this sand for rubbing the coin—these paper parcels contain counterfeit coin; one has ten shillings, the other five shillings, and the other twenty sixpences—they are all finished, and ready for circulation; and some of these are also from the mould—in the box taken from the woman one of the shillings is of the date of 1839; it is a good shilling, and is the model from which the mould has been made—I can tell that from corresponding marks on this good shilling and some of the counterfeit shillings—this paper contains six 4d. pieces, and here is the mould that they were made in—I can say that certainly from peculiarities I find in it.
Price's Defence. I met this young man that morning in Drury-lane; he asked me to go and have a cup of tea in his room, while I was there the officers came; I did not drop the sixpence.
NEWTON— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Transported for Ten Years.
PRICE— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Seven Years.
MR. RIBTON conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH BANNISTER . I am servant to Mr. John Wood, No. 65, Upper Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square. I recollect going to bed on the night of Thursday, 2nd June, about a quarter before 11 o'clock—I secured the house, I fastened the doors and windows in the usual way—I came down in the morning, at a quarter past 6 o'clock; I found the house very confused, the dining room door was open—the back parlour, and the door of the drawing room was open—they were all closed when I went to bed—I examined the kitchen, the window was closed, and the shutters were to, and a box put before them—the shutters had been closed the night before, and a wooden bar put against them—in the morning the bar was found in the dust place outside—there was no bolt on the window, the window could have been opened from outside, and the bar was gone—I am quite certain I put it up
the night before—I went back to see that I had done to—I found that in the parlour six pictures had been cut from the stretchers, and were gone—the sideboard had been burst open, and the contents taken out—I had seen the pictures safe the night before—these are them.
JOHN WOOD . I am an artist, and live at No. 65, Upper Charlotte-street, St. Pancras. On the morning of 3rd June, I came down stairs about a quarter past 6 o'clock (I had gone to bed about a quarter before 10 o'clock the night before)—I found the dining room in the greatest possible confusion—the pictures which had been against the walls bad had the stretchers taken out of the frames, and the pictures cut out in the most careful manner—the pictures were my own productions, and were of the greatest value—I value them at 1,000l. altogether—one of them was in a heavy frame, and the ornaments must have been removed from the mantelpiece before taking it down—it would have taken at least two men to do it—these are the pictures (produced)—I had looked at them the day before.
JANE LOCOCK . I am married, and live in Foley-street. I know Mr. Wood's house in Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square—I passed it on 2nd June, at 11 o'clock at night, I saw three men standing at the door—there are three steps—there was one man on each step—I. passed close to the steps—I had a flowerpot in my hand, and I stopped to change it from one hand to the other—I believe the prisoner Gillings to be one of the men—I had an opportunity of seeing his face from the gas lamp, which was four or five yards from the spot—he had a bushy moustache then, and looked very different to what he does now; still I feel justified in saying he is the man—he was at first looking down the area—after he looked down there he looked towards me, his eye met mine.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You were going home as rapidly as you could? A. Yes; I had no particular reason for stopping, only to change the flowerpot from one hand to the other—I do not think I put down the flowerpot; I put down a jug I had, on a step, before Mr. Wood's door—the person, who I believe was Gillings, had a moustache as dark as the hair on his head—that moustache would give him a foreign air—I said in my statement he appeared like a foreigner—I saw him again last Thursday, four weeks afterwards—I was required to go to Marlborough-street—I work only two doors from Mr. Wood's, and of course I was easily communicated with—I gave a description of the men the following morning—I was told I was going to see them, a policeman came for me—the men were not there, they were brought in afterwards—I was asked if I knew either of them, and I said I believed this man to be one—I feel disposed to swear to him—the more I think of it the more certain I am—he had a hat on—he had black clothes, not the same dress he has now.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. You gave a description the morning after? A. Yes; two policemen came to where I work, and I gave the description of them—when I came to mistress in the morning, she said Mr. Wood had been robbed, and I told what I had seen—I gave a description of what I had seen the night before—I only saw these two men when I was at the police office.
JAMESCOFFEE (police sergeant, 27 31). On 22nd June I went to No. 50, Regent-street, Westminster; the name of Gillings is over the door—Gillings and Benge live in that house—it is a marine store dealer's shop—I entered by the shop, and went to the first floor back room—the door of that room was locked—I first knocked, and Benge came up stairs from the lower part of the house—I had received a key from another constable, and I put it
in the door, and opened it—when Benge came up I told him I came from Mr. Minton, a metal dealer over the water, to purchase some paintings—Benge was then present; he went into the room with us—I do not believe he knew where we got the key—when I went in I found these six paintings rolled up on a box in the room—I looked at them, and asked Benge who they belonged to—he said, "To my nephew and me"—I said, "What do you want for them?"—he said, "I don't know, my nephew is out; would you call again?"—I said, "Do you live in this house?"—he said, "I do I live in the kitchen; I have lived there some time"—I then put the bolt on the door, and told him we were officers of police, and these paintings were the produce of a burglary, and I should take him in custody on suspicion of being concerned in the burglary—he said, "Oh, indeed! I am only a lodger in the house, I know nothing at all about them"—I made a search, and found three silver watches in a box in the room, and four duplicates, three of which relate to watches and a chain.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. When you went in the shop you went up stairs? A. Yes, and the other officer followed me up; I knocked once, and was going to knock a second time when I received the key—I did not go down in the kitchen at all.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. You say there was some name over the door? A. Yes; it was either Benge or Gillings; but I forget which—I swear it was either Benge or Gillings.
WILLIAM MILLERMAN (policeman, B 95). On 22nd June I apprehended Gillings, at No. 6, White Horse-street, Lambeth, about 6 o'clock in the evening: when I went in I found four or five more with him—I said to him, "Bill, I want you about these paintings; you must come along with me; they were found in your room"—he said he did not know anything about them—if they were there somebody must have put them there—I took him to the station—I have known the house in Westminster for years—the names of Benge and William Gillings are both over the door.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Do not you know that neither Gillings nor Benge are the persons who are the proprietors of that house? A. Not to my knowledge; I have known the house eight or nine years—I think the "William Gillings" has been put up within the last twelve months—I do not know that the name of Gillings has been over the door as long as I remember the house; I had no occasion to notice it—I believe there is another Gillings, a brother of this one—I cannot say that he is much older than this one—I do not know that another person of the name of Gillings was residing in that house, only this one—I have seen this one go in and out there at late hours—I do not know that he is the proprietor of it—I know he has a brother—I will not say about his being older than this one—he seemed younger.
MR. RIBTON. Q. How long have you known this Gillings? A. I suppose these ten years; I have seen him go in and out of that house—there is William Gillings over the door—I cannot say how long it has been there.
COURT. Q. Do you know any other person of the name of Benge who lives in that house? A. No; I do not know that there are several persons living in that house—I know a brother of Gillings—I have seen him at that house, but I do not know that he lived there—it is four or five years since I saw the brother.
WILLIAM SMEE (policeman, E 110). I went with Coffee, on 22nd June, to the house in Regent-street—the name of Gillings is over the window, and Alfred Benge is over the front of the shop—it has the appearance of a marine store shop—when we went in, Coffee went up stairs first, and when hewas
up, knocking at the door, he asked if I could give him a key that would open the back room door—I took the key out of the back parlour door and took it up to Coffee—I went in the room with him—it was about a quarter past 8 o'clock in the evening—I remained in the room all the time, and heard the conversation.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Who did you find in the shop? A. Three or four children—Benge came up the kitchen stain.
Benge received a good character.
BENGE— GUILTY of receiving. Aged 37.— Confined Six Months.
GILLINGS— GUILTY of burglary. Aged 19.
Gillings was further charged with having been before convicted.
BENJAMIN BRETT (policeman, B 129). I produce a certificate of Gillings' conviction—(read: "William Gillings, convicted of burglary, Oct. 1851.—Confined six months")—I was present at the trial—he is the man.
GUILTY. †— Transported for Ten Tears.
COLEMAN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 25.—Recommended to mercy. Confined Three Months.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES SWADLING (policeman, R 174). On 17th June I was on duty in Evelyn-street, Deptford, about 1 o'clock in the morning—I saw Hennessey, he had a hamper on his shoulder, and a bundle tied on the top of it—I said, "What have you got there?"—he said, "Some old clothes"—I asked where he brought them from—he said, "From my brother"—I asked him where his brother lived—he said, "In the Borough"—I asked him in what street—he said he did not know—I asked him if he could point out the street if I went back with him—he said he did not know—I looked in the bundle that was tied on the top of the hamper, and found this coat and waistcoat in it—I took him to the station—I found in the hamper four bars of soap at the top of it, and two at the bottom of it; some black lead, black lead brushes, packets of starch, six pounds of mould candles, and about two pounds of uncooked ham—I then asked him a third time where he got them—he said, "From a young woman"—I asked him where she lived—he said he did not know—I asked who she was, he denied knowing who she was—I found in his pockets a key of a box—he told me he lived in Tinderbox-alley—I went to a house there, and found in it a box which the key opened—it contained three shirt fronts, two packets of starch, nine towels, and several linen articles—I found on the soap this direction, "The Rev. Mr. Bakewell, Clarendon-road, Notting-hill"—I went to Mr. Bakewell, and he has identified part, of the property—I took Coleman into custody there.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Was the hamper covered over? A. No; it was tied down with string, and this coat and waistcoat were in a bundle on the top of it.
EDWARD WILLIAM RENNING (police sergeant, R 6). I acted as inspector at the station when Hennessey was brought in—I asked him where he got the property from—he said a girl named Mary Coleman gave them to him, who was living with Mr. Bakewell, Clarendon-road, Notting-hill.
JOHN BAKEWELL . I am a dissenting minister, and take pupils; I live in Clarendon-road, Notting-hill. Coleman had been in my service five years on the day this matter transpired—she was to have left me on the Monday following
for the purpose of being married—this old coat and waistcoat are mine, and two of these shirt fronts have my name on them—I had a pupil named Seymour; here are some towels with his name on them—they were in my care and custody—we have soap and candles like these in use.
Cross-examined, Q. Could you say at all when you saw this old coat and waistcoat last? A. No; this was a cast-off coat—I have not seen it for some time—I had one female servant besides Coleman—Coleman had been with me five years—she had no perquisites—she was strictly forbidden to receive anything from the pupils—I had never seen Hennessey there—I was not aware that any one was in the habit of coming to see Coleman.
HENNESSEY— GUILTY of receiving. Aged 27.—Recommended to mercy by the prosecutor.— Confined Three Months.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, July 7th, 1853.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron PARKE; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HOOPER; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Baron Parke and the Fourth Jury.
MESSRS. BODKIN and HUDDLESTON conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL DEBENHAM . I am a clerk in the Union Bank of London; Sir Peter Laurie and other gentlemen are shareholders in that bank; the business is carried on in Princes-street, London. We have correspondents in New York, carrying on business under the name of Duncan, Shearman, and Co.—they furnish persons coming from the United States with letters of credit upon our bank—those letters of credit contain a list of their correspondents in the principal towns on the Continent—they are called circular letters of credit—it is the practice, upon a person applying for a sum of money to any of those correspondents, for him to draw upon the Union Bank of London, and for the bankers cashing the draft to endorse the sum on the back of the letters of credit—that is in the case of the letter of credit being used abroad—I have never been in Berlin or St. Petersburg, but I have seen many hundreds of these bills—the object of the endorsement on the letter by the bankers cashing the draft, is to let the bank see that the amount mentioned in the body of the bill has not been exceeded—when the last sum which the bearer is entitled to draw upon is drawn, the last banker keeps the letter of credit—I have seen this letter of credit (looking at one produced)—it is in the usual form—in Nov., 1852, we received advice from Duncan and Shearman of a letter of credit having been issued to Gabriel Sans Garrett.
WILLIAM BASE . I am clerk to Messrs. Bush and Mullens, solicitors for the prosecution. I served the defendant with this notice—(this being read, was a notice to produee a letter of credit issued to the defendant in Nov., 1852, and numbered 41. It was not produced.)
SAMUEL DEBENHAM (continued.) We received advice from Duncan, Shearman, and Co. with reference to a letter of advice. On 11th Dec, 1852, the prisoner came to our bank, and presented to me a letter of credit—I believe I told him I must compare it with the letter of advice that we had received from Duncan, Shearman, and Co.—I did compare it, whether I told him so or not—I compared it in his presence—I found that it corresponded—(the witness was asked the contents of the letter of credit.)
MR. ROBINSON. Q. You have said that when a letter of credit is exhausted it is left with the person who pays the last amount; is not that so? A. Yes; I know that 210l. was paid on this letter of credit—I paid 100l., and I have received advice that 110l. has been paid since.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you also receive advice that the letter was not given up? A. We know that it did not appear in the usual course with the final draft; we had no advice that the 210l. bill had been altered to 5,210l.; we have heard it, not from what is usually termed advice; we have heard it from other sources.
COURT. Q. How do you know that the 210l. has been paid? A. By the appearance of the drafts for that amount; there appear to have been four payments.
MR. BODKIN. Q. If the 210l. had been exhausted on those drafts would the letter have been remitted to you with those drafts? A. It certainly should have been remitted with the last draft, it would have been in the ordinary course; it was not—(MR. ROBINSON submitted, upon these facts, that the letter of credit was not sufficiently traced to the possession of the prisoner to entitle the prosecutor to give secondary evidence of its contents. MR. BARON PARKE was of opinion that the force of the evidence was the other way, and that the evidence might be given)—the letter of credit which the prisoner produced was numbered 41, in favour of Gabriel Sans Garrett, for 210l.—it was drawn upon a form identical with this (looking at one produced)—I have the letter of which we received from Duncan, Shearman, and Co.—I should not produce that to the party presenting the letter of credit; I should compare it for my own information—we have not received any advice of any other letter of credit issued to a person of that name, or of any other numbered 41—after I had compared the letter of credit with the advice, the prisoner drew a check—this is it (producing it)—he drew this at the time—(read—"London, 11th Dec, 1852. Union Bank of London. Pay self general L. of C, or bearer, number 41, fifty pounds, on account of Duncan, Shearman, and Co. Gabriel S. Garrett")—"General L. of C." means general letter of credit—I endorsed on the letter of credit the 50l. that I advanced that day—it would be written probably a little higher up than it is upon the one that has been produced, nearer the top, to prevent anything being interlined above—on 17th Dec. the prisoner came again—he then drew a further sum of 20l., which I paid him—I also endorsed that on the same letter of credit—he drew a check exactly in the same form as the other.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Do you recollect doing these things, or do you speak merely from reference to certain books and papers? A. Merely from reference to certain books and papers; I do not speak from any book as to the fact of endorsing these sums on the letter, but from the fact that the thing is always done in regular course—the endorsement is made before the check is paid; that is the regular course—that is all I know about it—I knew the contents of the letter of credit from comparing it with the advice—I have the letter of advice here with which I have compared it.
MR. BODKIN. Q. When you paid the prisoner money on account of this letter of credit, it was on checks, such as that which has been read? A. Yes; I have the other check here—I filled those checks up myself at the time—looking at them now, I know that I paid the money, and that I endorsed the payments on the back of the letter (two other similar checks for 20l. and 80l., dated 17th Dec. and 23rd Dec, were also read)—upon paying those sums, I returned the letter of credit to the prisoner with the endorsements upon it—no other money was drawn by him in London upon that
letter of credit—I produce five bills of exchange; they were presented at our counter for payment—they are dated, "Berlin, 5th Jan., 1853, for 25l.," "Berlin, 5th Jan., 10l.," "St. Petersburg, 18th Jan., 40l.," "Moscow, 20th Jan., 25l.," and "Moscow, 5th Feb., 10l."—I have seen the prisoner write—I believe the name of the drawer to these bills to be in his handwriting (one of these bills was read, as follows: "Moscow, 24th Jan., 1853 (Old style, agreeing with 5th Feb., new style); 10l. sterling—at sight. Pay this my first of exchange, to the order of Messrs. A. Marc and Co., the sum of 10l. sterling, value received, on a letter of credit of Messrs. Duncan, Shearman, and Co., No. 41, without advice, from Gabriel Sans Garrett. To the Union Bank of London.") Those bills were all paid by our bank—they exhausted the 210l. letter of credit; we paid the last on 19th Feb.—on 11th March this year, in consequence of information that was given to me, I went to the shop of Moses and Son, the dealers in clothing, and there saw the prisoner—I think he noticed me—he was not taken then.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. You say that no advice of any additional letter of credit has been received from New York? A. Not in favour of that party or of that number—I am a clerk in what is termed the country office—the country office transacts the foreign business as well—I do not open the letters; they are opened by the manager—he is not here—I have not myself received any letters of advice from Duncan, Shearman, and Co. of the nature you refer to—there are two managers who would open letters.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Would a letter from Duncan, Shearman, and Co., come into your department? A. Yes; I should be sure to know it.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. How many clerks are there in the country office? A. Ten.
MR. BODKIN. Q. How many are there in the particular department you speak of? A. There would be but two to whom letters would come, myself and Mr. Drewitt—he is here.
COURT. Q. You are the only two clerks who transact the foreign business? A. Business of that nature, relating to letters of credit.
THOMAS DREWITT . I am a clerk, in the Union Bank of London. I am employed with Mr. Debenham in that department which refers to letters of credit from New York—I have not received any advice of any other letter of credit in favour of a person of the name of Gabriel Sans Garrett, and numbered "41" than the one that is the subject of this inquiry; only that one for 210l.—I have received no advice of any other numbered "41," or any other, in favour of that name—since Dec. last I have frequently had advices from that house—none of them contained any reference to any other letter of credit—we can produce the letters that have been received (the witness was directed to fetch them)—on or about 3rd March this year, these three bills for 60l., 40l., and 1,200l. were presented to me at the bank for payment—here is a memorandum of mine on each of them—I have never seen the prisoner write, to my knowledge.
JAMES MURRAY WILSON . I am a merchant, residing at St. Petersburg. These four bills were drawn by the prisoner—I saw him sign them (these bills were in French; they were read as follows: "St. Petersburg, Feb., 1853. At sight, pay to the order of Messrs. John Wilson, Jun., and Co., the sum of 60l. sterling, drawn in pursuance of, and endorsed on the back of, the letter of credit 41. Gabriel Sans Garrett;" addressed, "To the Union Bank of London, on account of Messrs. D. S. and Co." Three others in a similar form, for 40l., 1,200l., and 2,800l., were also read.)
THOMAS DREWITT (Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON). Q. Do you know by whom those bills were presented? A. I believe by Williams, Deacon, and Co.'s clerk—this is my writing on the face—the writing on the back is that of the clerk who presented them—there are two persons at our bank that open letters of advice, the manager and the assistant manager.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What are their names? A. The manager is Mr. Scrinegour, and the assistant manager is Mr. Barton; all letters of advice of this nature would come into my department, after they were opened by the manager or the assistant—it would be the business of myself and Mr. Debenham to attend to them.
WILLIAM CORNELIUS VAN KEMPEN . I am clerk to Mr. Burwash, a notary public, in the City; he is employed by Williams, Deacon, and Co. I presented three of these four bills for payment, those for 2,500l., 1,200l., and 40l.—there is one for 60l.; I did not present that—I presented them on 3rd March, at the Union bank—they were not paid.
EDWARD WILSON . I am a merchant, carrying on business at No. 5, Adam-court, Old Broad-street, City. We have also a house of business at St. Petersburg, the firm there is Wilson and Co.; in London it is John Wilson, jun., and Co.—our house at St. Petersburg is in the habit of paying letters of credit from the house of Duncan, Shearman, and Co., of New York—we received the four bills that have been produced from our house at St. Petersburg, three of them on 2nd March, and the other on 4th March, by post—we keep an account with Williams, Deacon, and Co., of Birchin-lane—we paid three of the bills into our account there, the other, the one for 1,200l. we presented ourselves—it was afterwards presented by Mr. Burwash, on our account—none of them were paid—they are all made payable to our firm.
JAMES MURRAY WILSON re-examined. On 17th Jan. I saw the prisoner at St. Petersburg; he produced a letter of credit from the house of Duncan, Shearman, and Co.; it was numbered 41, and was in favour of himself, for the amount of 5,210l.—I noticed the endorsements on the letter, they purported to be endorsements of payments previously made on the same letter by the Union Bank, of London, and by Brothers Schincklen, of Berlin—I do not remember positively the amount of the first endorsement of payment by the Union Bank of London, I believe it was for 500l.—the prisoner requested an advance from our house in favour of the letter—I advanced him 40l. in the first instance, and he drew this bill for 40l.—I endorsed that 40l. on the letter of credit, and returned the letter to him—on 21st Feb. (New Style), he came again, and produced the same letter—we then advanced him a further sum of 100l., and endorsed that on the letter—he then drew these two bills for 40l. and 60l.—on 22nd Feb. he came again, and stated that he wanted a larger sum of money, to pay for some diamonds which he had purchased—he mentioned in the first instance that he should want 2,500l.; we advanced him that sum—that was on the faith of the letter of credit—on that same afternoon he made another application for 1,200l. more, which we also advanced—we paid him in Russian money, or rather we paid parties to whom he had given orders on us—I paid him myself a small sum in cash—I ultimately arranged the balance with him, on the footing of the advance of 1,200l. and 2,500l.; I endorsed those advances, as I had done the others, on the letter of credit,
and returned it to him—those advances did not exhaust the letter of credit as altered to 2,510l., therefore it was returned to him.
Cross-examined. Q. You saw no symptoms of alteration about it, I suppose? A. No, I did not, or I should not have paid him; everything appeared to be perfectly regular.
RUDOLPH PROMVILLE . I am manager at Mr. Montleo's money-changing office, 37, Haymarket. On 5th March the prisoner came there, and I bought of him some florins, Frederic d'ors, and Napoleons, amounting to 604l. 1s. 3d.; I paid him by a check on Ransom and Co., our bankers; he gave the name of Louis Oriel, residing in the Commercial-road—he afterwards brought me 1,000 Russian imperials in the afternoon, a little before 4 o'clock, and I paid him for those 814l. 11s. 8d.
Cross-examined, Q. Did he tell you that he was a political refugee? A. No, he did not; nor that the money had been placed in his hands for political purposes.
JOHN ARTHUR BARTON . I am assistant manager of the Union Bank of London, I am not aware of any letter of advice from the house of Duncan, Shearman, and Co., of New York, or of any letter of credit in favour of a person named Gabriel Sans Garrett, except the one that has been inquired about—I have not had advice of any other letter of credit issued by them, numbered 41—I believe we have all the letters here that we have received from that house for the last six or eight months—(a number of letters were here produced).
Cross-examined. Q. Are those all the letters of advice, advising letters of credit, which you have received from Duncan, Shearman, and Co., within that time? A. Mr. Debenham can tell you that—there are two persons in the bank who open letters; Mr. Scrinegour the manager, and myself.
MR. ROBINSON to MR. BARTON. Q. You were receiving letters during the whole of 1852? A. Yes
JOHN BAUM . I am a money changer, in the Regent-circus. In March last the prisoner came to my place of business, and sold me a quantity of Russian gold, half imperials; they amounted to 680l.—I paid him in bank notes—I went with him, at his desire, to the Bank, to change the notes—I do not remember the name he gave; I do not think he gave my name, bringing gold.
MICHAEL DEARBERG . I am in the employment of Moses and Sons, clothiers, of Aldgate. On 20th Dec. the prisoner came to our shop, and ordered some goods—I have the order book (producing it)—he gave the name of "Macedo, Miller's Hotel, Blackfriars"—I did not enter it myself, I saw it entered.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Did you hear him give the name? A. He put it down.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What, the prisoner? A. Yes, he wrote it in my presence; this is what he wrote—on 11th March Mr. Debenham came to the shop—the prisoner was there—I saw nothing more of him after Mr. Debenham appeared, until I saw him at the Mansion House.
SUSANNAH ABBOTT . I am the wife of John Abbott, of No. 53, Cambridge-street, Edgware-road. I know the prisoner—he lodged in our house in April last, from the 15th to the 29th—he gave the name of Mr. Pruisental, and went by that name there.
Moses and Son, in Aldgate—I saw the prisoner there—I followed him to Bridge-street, and there I lost him; I afterwards took him into custody, in Bryanstone-street, Oxford-street—I asked him if his name was Mi. Macedo; he said, "No, no"—I then asked him if his name was Gabriel Sans Garrett; he said, "No, no"—I told him I was an officer, and that I wanted bins, on suspicion of committing a forgery on the firm of Wilson and Co., of Broad-street, City, and St. Petersburg—he said nothing more at that time—I then put him into a cab, and conveyed him to the station—he did not at any time tell me what his name was; he was asked, and refused.
MR. ROBINSON submitted that no case had been made out showing that the prisoner had committed any offence in this country, giving this Court jurisdiction; and that the facts disclosed no crime known to the law. The charge was an attempt by the prisoner to obtain by false pretences, money from the Union Bank; and it must be made out; 1st, that he made a false pretence, either himself or by a person recognised by law as his agent; and, 2nd, that it was done with intent to gain to himself money. With respect to the first point, he submitted that the person presenting the check could not be deemed the agent of the prisoner for that purpose, any more than a person purchasing goods could be held to be the agent of the seller. As to the second question, it could not be contended that there was any intent to obtain money by the prisoner in this country, the transaction as far as he was concerned, was closed when he received the money; it must have been a matter of indifference to him what became of the bills, he could have no interest in their presentation; indeed it would have been more to his advantage that they should never be presented at all. The case of Reg. v. Nash, 2nd Dennison's Crown Cases, p. 493, (to which the Court was referred by MR. BODKIN), did not apply there, no intent was charged to obtain money; it was merely an intent to defraud; but under the act upon which this indictment was founded, he contended that the uttering to obtain money was an essential ingredient, MR. GIFFORD was heard on the same side, MR. BARON PARKE stated, that the doubt he entertained was, whether the intent to obtain was meant to apply solely to the persons committing the fraud, and that point he would reserve; the rest of the case was for the Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Judgment Reserved.
MESSRS. BODKIN and BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK JOHN WHITEMAN . I am an engraver and printer, of No. 19. Little Queen-street, Lincoln's Inn-fields. On Saturday 11th June, about the middle of the day, the prisoner Broese came to my shop (he gave me his name Buray, but not on that occasion)—he said he wanted a plate made exactly like a tracing, and produced a small piece of paper which he had back from me with the proofs—I have not seen it since, this is it (produced)—there were two pieces of paper, one was the tracing, and the other was a piece printed in red ink—he said he wanted a plate made exactly like the patterns, and inquired the price, I told him about 25s., or 30s.—he said he did not think the person it was for was particular to 4s. or 5s., but he would ask him first, and call again—he said he should very likely want a great number done perhaps 1,000, but he should want 200 at first—he then took both the papers away—as far as I can recollect of the piece he took away, it would correspond in size with the piece cut out of this note (produced)—I should think it would have fitted into it—I returned him the tracing, and
the little bit of paper, that was to show me the kind of margin there was to be to it—he said he wanted it exactly like the tracing, and the small piece of paper that was printed in red ink, and to be very particular to do it in every respect like the red printing—at 6 o'clock on the same evening he came again with the same small piece of paper, he left the papers with me, requesting me to execute the order he had given me in the morning—I asked him his name, he wrote it down on a small piece of paper—this is it, I think (produced, "Mr. Burai" was written on it), he wrote it, except the first letter—I asked his address; at first he seemed surprised, and did not seem willing to give it—he did not give it, and I did not press him—I told him it was usual for strangers to leave a deposit, I should require 12s. 6d.—he left 5s., and said he would call again on Monday and bring the remainder of the deposit and some paper that he wanted printed—he wished the paper printed from the plate—this is the paper that he brought (produced)—he brought it on the Monday or Tuesday evening about 6 o'clock, and said he should want it printed from the plate which I was to make—he also brought a piece of paper with some writing on it; this (produced) is it; it was brought that I might make out some of the words more distinctly—they are the same words on the tracing and on the paper, they are more legible on the paper—the letters are extremely small on the tracing—he said he should want 200 done, and should want the proofs first to show this other person—he said he would call on the following evening, Tuesday, for it; he gave me another 5s. as a deposit, and left—on the Tuesday evening, between and 7 o'clock, he called again, the plate was then partially engraved; it was engraved from the tracing with the assistance of the letters on the paper—he examined it, and said he thought we were doing it very well—he asked when he could have a proof; I told him I would endeavour to let him have one on Thursday—on the Monday I had called on the Dutch Consul, and made a communication to him—in the proceedings I took afterwards, I acted by his directions—on the Thursday Broese called about o'clock in the evening, and asked if the proof was ready—I told him we had not finished the plate, and we would have one ready on the Friday evening for him—he left the remainder of the deposit 2s. 6d., and called again on the Friday evening and asked if the proof was ready—I had about a dozen of them printed, and gave ten of them to him—he examined them, and pointed out one or two necessary alterations—he said he must show them the other person, and took them away—he returned almost immediately, and asked for the small piece of paper printed in red ink; I gave it to him, and he left, saying he would call again that evening, or early the next morning—I did not see him again till he was in custody—I have got the plate I engraved; it is complete, with the exception of the alterations which the prisoner directed me to make; they were not made—the ten impressions I gave him were impressions from the plate—he spoke to me during the whole of the time in English, and seemed to understand my answers very well—I understood him very distinctly—I thought he spoke English very well for a foreigner.
DANIEL FORRESTER . I am an officer of the police of the City. In consequence of a communication from Mr. Whiteman I went with him to the Consul-General of the Netherlands on 13th or 14th June—I received instructions from the Consul, and on Thursday, 16th June, went to Mr. Whiteman's shop, about 7 o'clock in the evening—I was secreted in the back parlour, and saw Broese in the shop—I remained on the spot till he came out, and then followed him out, and saw De Leenu standing still at the
bottom of Great Queen-street, near Lincoln's-inn Fields—he was just on the move, almost standing still, and looking about him, about thirty or forty yards from Mr. Whiteman's shop—Broese went in that direction, but proceeded along Lincoln's Inn-fields—De Leenu followed, and when they came near Turnstile they joined company—I followed them; they walked together, apparently in conversation—when they came to the Globe Insurance, in Cornhill, Broese turned to the right, towards London-bridge, and De Leenu went in the direction of Whitechapel—I followed him, and missed him near Gulstone-street—I went again on the Friday evening to the same neighbourhood, with Inspector Shaw, and an officer named Williamson—we took up our position so that we could see Mr. Whiteman's shop—about 6 o'clock I saw Broese coming along, and pointed him out to them—he entered Mr. Whiteman's shop, and further up Little Queen-street, towards Holborn, I saw De Leenu standing on the right hand side of the way, and drew Shaw's attention to him—he was about forty yards from the shop—I saw Broese come out of the shop and go towards Holborn, towards where De Leenu stood, but he suddenly turned back again, and re-entered the shop of Mr. Whiteman, and at that time De Leenu came towards the shop, towards Great Queen-street—he continued to advance, but I lost sight of him for a short time, because I kept my eye on the door till Broese came out again, which he did in a minute or two, and turned into Great Queen-street, towards Long Acre—I went into the street, and saw the prisoners on opposite sides of the way, both going westwards—I think Broese came over to De Leenu, and then they walked in company together till they got into Long Acre, when we took them into custody—I took hold of De Leenu, and took this pocket book from his hand, in which I found one of Mr. Whiteman's cards, and the card of another engraver, in Holborn; also a note of the Bank of the Netherlands, with a piece cot out of the margin; also this list (produced)—I believe it is in Dutch—(this being interpreted, contained the following list of articles, with their prices: a screw, 1s. 8d.; a file, 5d.; a leather, 9d.; paper, 7d.; paint, a small piece, 8d.; pens, 6d.; pencils, 6d.; paper for notes, 2s.; plate, 1s.; printing, 1s.; coupons, 7s.; changing a note, 2s.; ink and pumice stone, 2d.; gum and lead, 3d.)—I also found this paper (produced), on which is the tracing of part of a note (this being read had "1000" on the upper part, and"40" at the bottom)—the prisoners were then taken to the station house—I told Broese he was charged with having a plate engraved to represent an Amsterdam bank note, and asked him by whose order he got it done—I told him he was not bound to answer me without he pleased—he told me that a person of the name of Smith, living in John-street, employed him to get it done—I could not make out who he meant by Smith, of John-street, and he pointed to De Leenu, and said, "That is not the man"—he did not tell me what John-street, or give me a description of the person—he declared that he did not know De Leenu, and that he had never seen him before—I asked him if he was quite sure of that—he said, "Yes"—that was in De Leenu's presence—as far as I could understand him he said he was asking De Leenu to direct him to some place, and that he was directing him, and De Leenu, at the time they were apprehended, said so also—one of them gave the address, No. 10, Tenterden-street, Whitechapel; they both said they lived there—I went to Whitechapel—I could not find Tenterden-street, but found Tenter-street—I could not ascertain correctly that Broese lived there, but I ascertained that De Leenu did—I went into a kitchen of that house, which was used as a bedroom also, and on a chest of drawers there I found this parcel (produced), tied up in this way, in which I found three Amsterdam bank
notes and this glass frame—I cannot say whether it might be used for taking tracings; it is a pane of plain glass, not looking glass—in the same bundle I found some crow quills, some black lead pencils, a knife, a piece of wax, three pieces of pumice stone, three pieces of red paint, some black chalk, Indian rubber, some gum arabic, a small fine brush, a piece of white paint, and a piece of Indian ink—I also found a plate pierced for water mark (produced), and some paper, on which are tracings of parts of these notes—I have not been able to find out Broese's residence; I have used all the diligence I can respecting it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Were the two papers that the interpreter read, found in the hands of De Leenu, in the pocket book? A. Yes; there was what I understand is a genuine note in the pocket book, and also this tracing paper, and these two cards—there was no partition in the kitchen—De Leenu and his wife and three children lived there, I believe—I saw no hesitation as to his giving me his address—I should think he understood English very imperfectly—he expressed himself very imperfectly, he did not say much—I mean to say, he was able to speak to me about asking the direction—this is my signature to my depositions—I cannot say why I did not mention what De Leenu said to me before the Magistrate—I say on my oath that he did say that.
HENRY ADLARD . I am an engraver, and have had a good deal of experience for many years in these matters. I have seen the genuine note found on De Leenu—the papers given to Mr. Whiteman are all fac-simile tracings of the note, copies of parts of it—the plate produced by Mr. Whiteman would not produce this genuine note.
HENRY ADLARD continued. I have no doubt that these ten notes have been taken from this plate, and are, as far as they go, imitations of the genuine Amsterdam note; but the genuine note is not produced from a plate, but from type—this piece of lead (produced) is what we call the stencil plate; if this is put on a piece of paper and rubbed with sweet oil, or any greasy substance, it produces the imitation of a watermark—I have no doubt that it has been traced from the watermark on the genuine note—this piece has been cut from the genuine note—this glass produced, the crowquills, red and white paint, and Indian ink, are all materials for making fac-similes of documents or bank notes—the glass is used to put slantways, to put a strong light in order to make the tracing easy—this is tracing paper, which we make fac-similes with.
CATHERINE GARNER . I am a lodger, at No. 10, Tenter-street, Whitechapel. I know De Leenu—I have known him three weeks yesterday—he occupied the kitchen of that house—he has not occupied it more than two months, I think—he was there when I went; his wife lived with him—I cannot say whether they had any children living there.
Cross-examined. Q. Did not Broese lodge there? A. I cannot say that he lodged there; I have frequently seen him in and out, as though he had a right to come there; and I saw him on the Thursday morning before he was apprehended on Friday, sharpening a knife with a stone, about a quarter or half-past 7 o'clock.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you hire a lodging there? A. Yes; of Mr. De Leenu—the front room up stain.
JOHANNES ADRIAAN HINSBECK (through an interpreter), I am chief cashier of the Netherlands Bank, at Amsterdam. This is one of the notes of that bank—such notes circulate in that country—these other three notes are forgeries—such notes circulate by the authority of the directors of that bank.
Cross-examined. Q. Is that a private bank? A. It is a company of shareholders; the Government is in connection with it, there is a decree of the King—the shareholders divide the profits among themselves by way of dividend, like a railway company—these are the notes they issue to their customers.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is there any other bank in the Netherlands that issues such notes? A. No; they are received at the Government offices through the whole country—there is not a national bank besides.
Broese's Defence. I am not guilty of committing any forgery; I had the plate engraved by order of Mr. Schmidt; it was merely an errand that I executed, and I was paid for it; the articles found at the house of De Leenu were not my property, but were given into his wife's keeping by Schmidt, and he gave me directions to fetch him from the railway at London-bridge; he accompanied me, and gave him all that is contained in the handkerchief, saying, "Take care of this till to-morrow morning, I will then fetch the proof;" he told me on the same evening, Thursday, that he would come to fetch the proof, which I was to get from the engraver on Friday evening; I went to fetch the proof, and was taken into custody; I have been very much deceived by these people.
BROESE— GUILTY . Aged 41.— Confined One Year.
DE LEENU— GUILTY . Aged 53.— Transported for Ten Years.
MESSRS. ROBINSON and GIFFARD conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD JOHNSON SEATON . I am one of the partners in the prosecutors' firm; we are brewers at Ratcliffe. In Sept. last the prisoner came to the brewery, and said his name was Thomas Chambers, and he wanted to borrow some money; that he would deposit the assignment of the lease of a house to him in our hands, that it was a chandler's shop or corn dealer's in Felix-terrace, Liverpool-road, and he wanted money for the purpose of converting it into a beer shop—he was not selling beer at that time, I presume—having looked at the premises a day or two afterwards, I agreed to advance the money on that security—there was an agreement that he was to be supplied with his beer from our brewery—in about a week or ten days he came again, and brought the various assignments up to the tenant previous to him, and alleged as the reason for not producing the assignment to him that it was in the hands of his solicitor, to whom be owed money, and he could not bring it—he wanted a check for 10l. to give his solicitor, and so bring the assignment—I gave him the 10l., and in a few days after he came again, and brought this deed (produced)—I then gave him these two 10l. checks (produced) for the rest of the money—he signed his name on the back of them, at my request—we supplied him with beer on several occasions to the amount of 30l. or 40l.—the deed was to he security for the money and the beer—if I had known his name was Plum I certainly should not have advanced him the money, as beer had been supplied by the firm in 1849 to Plum, and brought away again in consequence of it not being paid for, and because we heard the character of the man—I did not know him personally
before that—before I trusted him I communicated with Mr. Larchin, a member of our firm—on 17th Dec. I gave the prisoner into custody on a charge of forging the deed—he said he had altered it from the name of Plum to Chambers, for his name was Chambers equally so with Plum—I asked him why he had done that—he said it was not my business, or he did not choose to tell me, or some answer of that sort, I cannot tell exactly—before that time I had received some information about him, and the house he was then in—I had that information at the time he was given into custody—I told him that his name was Plum, and that he was the same man that had been at the brewery in the Kingsland-road, and that we heard he was about disposing of his business—he said yes, it was quite true, he intended to dispose of it.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When was the prisoner first given into custody? A. I cannot say the exact date; it was in Dec.—he was taken before Mr. Ingham, and was then brought before Mr. Yardley, and discharged—I attended by solicitors, Messrs. Goddard and Eyre—I had the prisoner taken into custody again a short time ago—he was taken before Mr. Norton—he did not discharge him, I believe—I was not present—he was merely taken before Mr. Norton to be identified.
Q. What is the reason that, after preferring a charge as far back as Dec, and taking him before a Magistrate, that you indict him without going before a Magistrate now? A. We were induced by our solicitors to believe that the Magistrate's decision was incorrect—they directed us to come before the Grand Jury, and get a bill without going before a Magistrate—it would have been difficult to give him notice, for he could not be found—we learned that his name was Plum a few days before he was given into custody—we did not learn it three or four months before—I did not know his name was Plum before I made him an advance, and I believe my partner did not—he is here—I saw the person who professes to be the prisoner's landlord—I believe his name is Davis—I do not know whether he is here—I went to make inquiries of Davis before I made the advance to the prisoner—I told Davis that a person of the name of Chambers had a house of his, and wanted to borrow money, and after that I advanced him money—after I knew this to be a forgery, I asked him for an assignment of the lease—that was before I had seen my solicitor—I do not say that we should not have prosecuted him if we could have got the assignment—it is impossible to say what we should have done.
Q. Do you mean to say you would have got this assignment from him and prosecuted him also? A. I think if he had fulfilled the terms of his agreement with us, that is, to assign the lease to us in default of paying the money advanced to him and for the beer, there would have been no prosecution—he had agreed to assign the lease to us, and before giving him in charge we asked him to assign the lease, and he refused—we would not have settled it if we could.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Who told you to go to Mr. Davis? A. Mr. Chambers referred me—I have not seen Mr. Davis here—I asked him about Mr. Chambers—this case was discharged by Mr. Yardley, because he considered it was not a forgery in law.
CHARLES PALMER . I am an auctioneer and estate agent, living in Islington. In Jan., 1852, I knew the prisoner by the name of Plum; I got this deed prepared, and attested the execution of it—at that time the name of Plum was throughout the deed—the receipt has been altered in the same way as the body of the deed—all are altered from Plum to Chambers—
it was prepared by Plum's direction, and the Plum mentioned here is the prisoner—I delivered the deed unaltered to the prisoner on the morning of its execution.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see it executed yourself? A. There is my name to it as the attesting witness; I acted for Plum in carrying out the assignment from Mr. Wales the assignor to him—I believe Davis is the present landlord.
WILLIAM GRAFTON . I am a drayman, in the service of the prosecutors; I have been in their service six or seven years. In May, 1849, by the directions of Mr. Larchin, I took two loads of beer to a beer shop in Back-lane, Kingsland, kept in the name of Plum—I do not know exactly the amount of the beer I took, but suppose it was somewhere about 20l. or 80l. worth—I unloaded it from my drays in front of the house, the prisoner was there doing something to his cellar; he said he would not have it in just then—we went in, he signed the loading ticket, and I went away to a short distance to a lady's house, that I serve with beer regularly—I made inquiry there, and made a communication to Messrs. Larchin, in consequence of which I went to try to get the beer away, and succeeded—I saw Plum there, he saw it taken away, and sent for the police to give us into custody, but they refused to do anything of the kind.
MR. BALLANTINE to EDWARD JOHNSON SEATON. Q. Did not Mr. Davis distinctly tell you that this man's name was Plum, and not Chambers? A. No, he did not; he said there had been an exchange of tenants, and he did not exactly know the name of the person that was in there; he said he had heard that his name was Plum—I think that was in Sept.—I applied to Mr. Davis, on the prisoner referring me to him—this was before I trusted Plum with the money—he said there had been so many changes in the house that he did not know exactly that his name was Plum—I knew nothing of the beer being taken away at that time, nor did Mr. Larchin till we became acquainted with the name of Plum—when I advanced the money, I did not know that a person of the name of Plum had endeavoured to get beer for nothing—I advanced it to a man of the name of Chambers.
COURT. Q. Did he represent his name to be Chambers? A. He did, independent of the lease he said his name was Chambers—he was trading in the neighbourhood in the name of Chambers.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. I believe you were not a partner in 1849? A. No; the first time I heard the name of Plum was when I heard it mentioned by Mr. Davis—I mentioned the name of Chambers only to Mr. Larchin, and told him of the offer that bad been made; I did not mention the name of Plum—I consulted with Mr. Larchin before I paid the prisoner the money at all.
HENRY LARCHIN, JUN . I took the order in 1849, for beer to be sent to the prisoner in the name of Plum, and I gave instructions to have it brought back again—I knew the name of Plum well—Mr. Seaton made a communication to me about an offer that had been made by a person named Chambers—I would not have advanced the money, or allowed Mr. Seaton to do so, if I had known that the person's name was Plum.
Cross-examined. Q. Would you not, if be had given good security? A. No; certainly not myself—I would not have taken the assignment of the lease to have settled the whole of this affair, nor should I have let my partner do it—we offered to take the assignment at one time; but we should have prosecuted the man afterwards for the attempt to swindle, if we could
have done so—I should myself have first got all I could out of him, and then prosecuted him—our house has a sign, it is the Queen's Head.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. BIRNIE conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD MORGAN . I am a brewer's servant, and live at No. 6, Cottage-place, Rumley-street. On 3rd July, about half past 10 o'clock at night, I was going to my own home—as I was passing the corner of Rumley-street, I saw two men standing on the opposite side, against a post in the road; the prisoner is one of them—I had not known him before—I was scarcely five yards from my home; I live in a court, called Cottage-court—as I passed, one of the men, not the prisoner, came behind me, caught me round the neck, and the other one gave me a blow and knocked me down—the prisoner tried to rob me of my watch and money while the other one had me on the ground; we were all three on the ground together—it was the prisoner who knocked me down, he hit me in the stomach—I had a good hard struggle to hold my watch, the prisoner was trying to take it—a window opened on the other side, and the one who had me round the neck got up and ran away, and the prisoner got up and followed as fast as he could—I followed them to the corner of Marshall-street, and then came back to Rumley-street—I followed them down to the corner of the Horseferry-road, and stood to see if I could see a policeman to give them in charge—I could not, and they crossed the road and knocked me down again a second time—that was, I should say, about 180 yards off—I swear the prisoner is one of them, I never lost sight of him; a policeman came, and took him into custody—no other party came up to my assistance—these are the trowsers I had on at the time (produced), the fob is torn.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Where have these trowsers been since? A. Tied up in this handkerchief, at my own house; I was not told to keep them in that way; I was ordered to keep them, as they might be wanted at the Court—I had not been drinking; I had only been away from my house about an hour and a half—I was coming from Pimlico—all I had had was three halfpenny-worth of gin, at the King's Head—I had not been drinking anywhere that day; beer is not allowed at the brewery on Sunday—the prisoners had had some beer, but nothing out of the way—no words whatever passed between us—I never challenged them to fight, or spoke a word to them till the policeman came up—here is my watch and chain—the chain was not found my neck, it would have been taken if I had not held my hand at the bottom part—the prisoner was never out of my sight—they did not try my watch the second time they knocked me down—they both knocked me down, here is the blow on my temple now.
SAMUEL POLLARD . I am a printer, and live in Peter-street, Westminster. On 3rd July, about a quarter past 10 o'clock at night, I saw the prisoner and another man standing at the corner of Market-street and Earl-street—the prosecutor was hallooing out for a policeman, and the prisoner and another man rushed from the opposite side to him and fought with him—as soon as they heard somebody coming, they felled him to the ground, and ran away—I went to his assistance, a policeman came up, and I gave the prisoner in charge; I had never lost sight of him—the other man ran away—this was in the Horseferry-road.
JOHN HELLIER (policeman), I took the prisoner—he was not drank, he had had a little drink—Morgan's pocket was nearly torn out; I did not notice which pocket it was, but I saw it hanging out, and his coat was all dirt, as if he had been on the ground—his trowsers were blue.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he appear to have been drinking? A. I cannot say he had not, but he was not the worse for drink.
(The prisoner's statement before the Magistrate was here read, as follows:"I was standing at the corner; I stood at the post, and had a drop drunk; he struck me, and throwed me down; I stand up then, and throwed him down; he got me round the neck, and tore the two buttons out of my shirt, and kicked me, and broke my hat, and the tip of his shoe touched me in the nose; after I got up my mate dragged me away, and we went down to Laundry-street; I was close home, and saw the policeman after me, and he said he would take me in charge; I turned after him, and was rather intoxicated; I had not taken drink for two months till yesterday; I never meddled with his watch or pockets, 1 am sure; I am a hard-working man.
GUILTY . Aged 27.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Six Months.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, July 7th, 1853.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. HOOPER; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
JOHN DERRICK . I am a labourer, and live in Lambeth—I have known the prisoner between five and six months—I worked with him. On 21st May we went to Chelsea together, and bad three or four pots of beer at the Nell Gwynne public-house—two or three drank with us—we were both a little the worse for liquor—between 10 and 11 o'clock at night we quarrelled—some blows with our fists passed in the house—he struck me while I was in the house—I then went out in the road, and he followed me, and pitched into me again in the road—I did not see him have anything in his hand; we both went down together, and when I got up he was gone—I did not know at that time that anything had been done to me, but afterwards I found blood coming about my body—I became insensible, and did not know anything till Sunday morning, when I found myself in St. George's Hospital; I remained there three weeks and three days—I had worked with the prisoner five or six months at the Exhibition—the quarrel was about some beer that I upset—we had not had any quarrel before that day.
WILLIAM BLOOMFIELD (policeman, B 143). I was on duty that night in Chelsea—I found a mob outside the Nell Gwynne—there was a fight; Page was there, and he was in liquor—the last witness had been taken away by some civilians—it was about a quarter before 11 o'clock—Page was lying in the road—I picked him up—he said he had been fighting with a man, and he wished to give him into custody—I said, "Do you know the man?"—he said "Yes"—I said, "the only thing you can do is to summon him"—I did not know what had happened, and Page went away—in consequence of information, I went to a house in Nell Gwynne-court, and found the prosecutor insensible—I found two stabs under his lower rib on the left side, and one on the right side of the chest—his trowsers and shirt were soaked in blood—he was taken to the Hospital.
JOHN HOWLETT (policeman, B 198). I apprehended the prisoner on 27th June, at his mother's house, No. 13, York-street, Blackfriars-road—I told him there was a warrant against him for stabbing John Derrick—he said he was very sorry for it—they were fighting, and he found Derrick was getting the upper hand of him, and he was determined to have his revenge—he said a great deal more—he said, "I have done it, and I deserve to suffer for it; I done it in self defence. "
FRANCIS BUCKLAND . I am house-surgeon at St. George's Hospital—Derrick was brought there on 21st May, at 11 o'clock in the evening—he was wounded in six places—five were incised wounds; and one, which was below the right collar bone, was decidedly a stab, and done with a very sharp instrument—the wounds on the side were very dangerous—the lower one had very nearly penetrated the abdomen—that was the one I was most afraid of—he was discharged on 15th June.
COURT to JOHN DERRICK. Q. While you were fighting, did you use anything but your fists? A. No; I do not know that the crowd made a ring for us—he came and pitched into me unawares—I did not see that the crowd interfered—when we went down I think I was uppermost—I did not challenge him to come and fight—I was going home.
Prisoner's Defence. We first had some ale together; then he asked me if I would go to the play; I said "No;" he then said "Come with me to Chelsea;" I refused going, and we went and had three or four drops of beer; from there we went over to Chelsea, where we were drinking till about half past 10 o'clock, beer, ale, and rum—we came out and went into another house, and had a pot of beer, he upset it, and I said something to him, and he blacked both my eyes, and he caught hold of me and knocked my head on the floor; the landlady said she would not have it; we came out and he kicked me, and caught my handkerchief and pulled me down; we both went down together; he began the fight by blacking my eyes.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
JACOB VANDENBERG . I am a Dutchman; I have two shops in Royal Mint-street—on Saturday, 23rd April, the prisoner came with a coupon, and I advanced him 11.s.—on the 25th he came again, and he produced these two Dutch coupons, Nos. 631 and 7722—I said, "Why did not you take the first one back, as you promised me?" for he had told me that the first one he should take back on Monday—he said, "The gentleman they belong to has got on the spree, and, if you will let me have 61. 10s. on them altogether, I will come and take them back from you to-morrow"—I asked him where he lived—he said at Shad well, and his name was Harrison—I gave him as much as made the amount of 01. 10s. on the three—I treated them as good coupons—they are worth nothing now—the prisoner did not come the next morning and take them back, and I took them to the Bullion-office in the City—they were kept there an hour for examination—as I came back I met the prisoner in company with a man who has been tried in the other Court for making forged notes—I said to the prisoner, "I think there is something the matter with those coupons"—he said, "I have got no time to talk with you now; I will come to-night at G o'clock"—he did not come—I tried to find him, and we took him in custody on 3rd June, in a cellar—he spoke in Dutch, and said,
"Don't say anything before other persons"—he came up, and the officer said, "I want you for uttering Dutch coupons, knowing they were bad"—the prisoner said, "I will give you a sovereign, and 2s. every week in part of the money"—I said I could not take it, he must take the consequences of the case—the officer-went to the Bullion-office, and got the coupons
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. What would be the value of these, if they were good? A. Nearly 100 guilders; about 8l. the three—one of these two is worth about 2l. 1s. 3d., and the other 4l. 1s.—I gave six good sovereigns and a half for them.
CONRAD VANDENBERG (through an interpreter), I am a stock-broker, and live in Pell-street, St. George's—these are coupons for the interest of stock in the Dutch Funds—they are paid by advertisement every six months—the money can be received directly after the advertisement—this coupon, No. 631, is not good—there is no Dutch coupon that bean five per cent, interest—that has ceased since 1849—the highest rate of interest in the Dutch Funds now is four per cent—I can detect an alteration in this, No. 631, with this magnifying glass—the five has been altered, and there does not exist in Holland any stock that has got a capital of 2,000 guilders—I cannot see any other alteration—I cannot tell whether there was two and a half, or what was there before the five.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you a member of the Stock Exchange? A. No; I carry on business at Mr. Simon's, in Leman-street—I have been eight years in this country—my country is Holland—I lived in Holland, at Amsterdam, until I came to London—I mean by a stock-broker a man who buys stock and sells it.
MR. PAYNE. Q. Have you had dealings in the Dutch Funds, and do you know from that what the funds there are? A. Yes
JAN JONKER . I am a merchant and dealer, and live in Redman's-row, Mile-end; I deal in Dutch funds as well. I know the prisoner; he called on me three days before he was taken—he came on the Tuesday, and he was taken on the Friday—he said, "Can I speak to you?"—I said, "Yes"—he told me that he was in trouble; that he had passed three false coupons to the prosecutor, and he took 67. 10s. for them—he said he had them from a strange man, and passed them for him, and he had a trifle for his trouble—he asked me whether there were not persons who came to fetch coupons of a small amount; I said, "Yes"—he told me if these small coupons were fetched from my house, they were all altered to a larger amount—he said some other coupons that were fetched by a person from my house were altered to a larger amount—he said, "You know I did not fetch them"—he said, "I cannot write nor read"—I said, "I know that"—he said, "If you might be called as a witness, I hope you will speak the truth, and know what is the truth; I want you to speak the truth"—he told me he went to Mr. Voss before he went to Vandenberg, and asked Mr. Voss to change a coupon for him; and Mr. Voss said, "Let me see the coupon;" and Mr. Voss said, "What do you allow upon it?" and the prisoner said, "1d. on a guilder"—this coupon is twenty-five guilders, and Mr. Voss said, "I don't know, you look like a poor man; what is the most you allow?" and he said, well, he did not care, he would give him half a crown for the twenty-five guilders; and Mr. Voss said, "My good man, you look like a poor man; if you go to Leadenhall-street, you can get them for 8d. or 4d.; it is better that you go to the City; any bullion-office will do them for you for 3d. or 4d.;" and Mr. Voss then told him he thought the coupon was not right—that was before he went to Mr. Vandenberg.
Cross-examined. Q. When was it you saw this man? A. On the Tuesday before the Friday that he was taken—I went to Mr. Voss, and he told me just the same thing—I have known the prisoner eighteen years—he dealt with me—his name is Anthony Watjohn.
WILLIAM SMITH (policeman, K 28). On the morning of 3rd June I went with the prosecutor to look for the prisoner; we found him in the kitchen of a house in Gun-street—I said-to him, "I belong to the police; you will have to go with me to Arbour-square, for obtaining 6l. 10s. on some coupons"—he said, "I changed them for the man who makes them; the same man was transported in Holland, for ten years, for forgery; I had 10s. "
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 31.— Confined Twelve Months.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS COPPICK . I am in the employ of Mrs. Woodham, a greengrocer, of No. 27, Charlotte-street, Fitzroy-square. On 26th March I was in Keppel-street, Russell-square—Dr. Daley lives at No. 34, there—as I was passing, the prisoner came from the step there, and asked me if I would go on an errand for Dr. Daley—I said, "I will, if it won't take me too long"—he told me it was only to go to Mr. Selth's, in Tottenham-court-road, and take a note, and wait for an answer—he gave me a note, and told me to take it to Mr. Selth, and when I came back I was to ring the bell—all this time he stood on the step of Dr. Daley's door—I believe this is the note he gave me (produced)—I took it to Mr. Selth—he opened it in my presence, and gave me twelve sovereigns and a half-sovereign—he asked me where it came from—I said, "Mr. Daley"—I took back the money to Keppel-street—I saw the prisoner—he came off the steps at Dr. Daley's—I thought he came out of the house—I am sure he came off the steps—I gave him the money—he gave me 4d. for going, and went away.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORD. Q. This was between 9 and 10 o'clock at night? A. Yes; the conversation that took place was not above a minute or two—I was shown the prisoner at the police station—a person brought him outside—that was about three months afterwards—I had never seen the prisoner from the time I saw him on Dr. Daley's steps till I saw him at the station—when I came back with the money, the prisoner came off the steps, and out of the house, I thought—I did not see the door open—I have been five months in Mrs. Woodham's employ, who keeps a greengrocers shop—before that I was at Mr. Brown's, in Store-street, twelve months—I left to get more wages—it is about five minutes' walk from where the prisoner was standing to the shop I went to; it is out of sight—if I had been disposed I might have gone away.
MR. PLATT. Q. Had you plenty of time to see the man's face? A. Yes; he is the man, I have no doubt.
ROBERT SELTH . I am a poulterer, in Tottenham-court-road. On 26th March the last witness brought this note to me—I opened it, and found this check inside it—it is dated 26th March, 1853, on Messrs. Praed and Co., for 12l. 10s„ drawn by Mary May hew, payable to R. Daley, Esq.—this is the note—(read: "Will Mr. Selth oblige Mrs. Daley with cash for the inclosed check immediately, by the bearer. 34, Keppel-street")—I know Mr. Daley, and have cashed checks repeatedly for him—on this occasion I
believed the note came from him—I delivered the boy the twelve sovereigns and a half—I marked the check, and gave it in at the station.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Was the check crossed when it came to you? A. No; I crossed it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Do you know the names of persons who keep accounts at your bank by the ledger? A. Yes; the ledger is not in Court—it is only by consulting the ledger that I know what names are in it—that is the only way we can speak positively—I am City clerk—I take the Bank and Lombard-street walk, and in the afternoon I write off the debits in the cash book—I have no knowledge of Mrs. Mayhew—I have examined the book—no person of the name of Mary Mayhew keeps an account there.
MR. PARRY. Q. Who opens the accounts at your bank? A. The ledger keeper; I have posted in the ledger, but it is not my regular duty.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Transported for Ten Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
THIRD COURT. Thursday, July 7th, 1853.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. HOOPER; Mr. Ald. HUNTER; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. COMMON SERJEANT; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Eighth Jury.
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES FITCH . I am a vellum binder, in the employ of William Fitch, of Fish-street-hill, who, having lost a large quantity of paper, desired me to mark some reams of paper, and I marked two out of these three reams (produced)—the third-ream is not marked—the mark is three small dots; here is the instrument which I made it with (producing it)—I am able to swear that these three reams were marked by roe, and that they are my master's property—I marked some on Friday, some on Sunday, and some on Monday.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. What is the instrument? A. It is called a stabber; there are only three points left on it—every stationer in London may have the same sort of paper—I only swear to it by these marks—the paper was safe on the Wednesday night, and was missed on the Thursday—I looked before I left on Wednesday, and there were about nine reams, I am not certain: but there was one ream which stood by itself on the ground, and that was gone; and another ream was taken from the top which was underneath a board—I did not count the reams on Wednesday night—I only missed two reams on Thursday morning.
told me, I received orders to be at the station at quarter to 1 o'clock in the morning; I went, and a policeman accompanied me to my master's premises—I got in through the cellar into the warehouse, and after seeing that everything was safe, went to sleep till 7 o'clock in the morning—the policeman did not stay with me—shortly after 7 o'clock I saw the prisoner Ralph go into the counting house in his shirt sleeves, and without his shoes—he was there about half a minute, and came out again—there are departments round one aisle of the warehouse, from which he took one ream of paper in a light wrapper, and another ream in a blue wrapper, like these produced—he put them on his left shoulder, went up stairs, and I heard him ascend to the second floor—he took the paper from the ground floor, level with the street—I heard no more of him—he works at Mr. Broad's, at the corner of Fish-street-bill, the engine factory and gas fitters—he attends the engine which supplies the factory with steam—the floor of our warehouse is over his engine room, and there was a large board taken out, and a ladder put to the place in his workshop, by which means a person could get into my master's premises—I had been on the watch several other nights before, but had not seen Ralph before on the premises—if he came up the ladder that would bring him on to the first floor of the factory, but the second Poor of the house—when he got to the end of the factory he would have to go into the house, and would have to descend three flights of stairs to get into the counting house, where I first saw him—I believe these two reams of paper to be my master's property—I helped to mark one of them.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Who does Ralph work for? A. Mr. Broad, a gas fitter—I do not know how many men there are in his employ, but I know there are only two employed in the engine room—I was comfortably asleep from I till 7 o'clock—I required a little sleep, as 1 had been there three days and two nights—I was positive how it was done, or I should not have had confidence to go to sleep—I got up at 7 o'clock, saw that no one was there, and went into my hiding place again, which was under a bench, with the bottom part of my body covered with some rolls of paper—my shoulders were not covered—I did not see the hole till two hours after I got out of my hiding place, when every body was on the premises—when I first saw Ralph, he was about four yards from me as I was peeping out of my hiding place; he went further from me—our men come to work at 8 o'clock—my master employs fifty or sixty men and women; I cannot tell you exactly—a great part of them are women—there are about sixteen men—they do not all come at 8 o'clock in the morning; about three came at 8 o'clock that morning—I have been two years and a half in Mr. Fitch's employment—I have known Ralph fifteen months—I never had any quarrel with him, or any dispute—there was something said about a sovereign—I had two sovereigns given into my charge, and one of them was gone after I came from dinner—the men were not in the habit of chaffing me about it; neither Ralph nor Ingram chaffed me about it—I have spoken to Ralph sometimes three times in a day—I mean to say nothing has passed between him and me about the sovereign.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Is Mr. Broad's steam power used for the purposes of your factory? A. Yes; it is rented by Mr. Fitch—there are pipes laid through our factory, and the engine is employed to drive our machine.
MR. PARRY. Q. How was it that you missed the sovereign? A. I bad two sovereigns given to me by Mr. Fitch—I put them in a small drawer under the counter, and when I came back from dinner I found only one there;
inquiry was made, and Mr. Mitchell questioned me about it, and some others—I never found the sovereign—I am still in the service.
SAMUEL EVANS (City policeman, 459). On Thursday morning, 16th June, at a quarter to 8 o'clock, I was watching Mr. Fitch's premises, standing near Mr. Broad's engine room door, which is part of Mr. Fitch's premises—I saw Ingram come into the court with an empty basket—he took it into the engine room, and Ralph came out to a basket full of carpenters' shavings which was standing outside, and took them in also—Ralph then came outside, and stood in the doorway; he remained there a few minutes, and then assisted Ingram out with what appeared to be a basket of shavings—Ralph put it on to Ingram's shoulder—it appeared very heavy from the way in which he lifted it; it would not have appeared near so heavy if it only contained shavings, but I could only see shavings in it—the basket that Ralph took in was much larger, and he carried that himself—I believe the basket that was brought out was the same that Ingram had taken in empty—I followed Ingram to the door of No. 1, Old Fish-street, and Lambeth-hill—there is no number on the door—I left him at the door, and did not watch him further that morning.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Is it not customary for the engine men to have baskets of shavings go in? A. Yes; a great many shavings go in—I do not know that the men used to take away some of the shavings—I never saw but one basket of shavings go away, and those were taken to a public house opposite the engine room door.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How far is Lambeth-hill from Mr. Fitch's premises? A. About two minutes' walk.
GEORGE LEGG (City policeman, 440). On 16th June, by the direction of my inspector, I went to watch the house, No. 1, Old Fish-street, or No. 1, Lambeth-hill, for it is a double house; the private entrance is in Lambeth-hill—at a quarter to 8 o'clock I saw Ball, who is a jobbing porter, and lives there, come out, go to the corner of Old Fish-street and look about—he absconded the same day, and has not been found since—he then went in, and shut the door—Ingram then came with a basket on his shoulder, which appeared very heavy—he rang the bell, Ball opened the door to him, and he went into the passage—I saw Ball help the basket off his shoulder—Ingram and Ball then came out together; in about a minute Ingram left, and Ball went in again—in the course of ten minutes afterwards I saw Ralph com—Ball opened the door to him, and they went in together—Ralph remained there about half an hour, came out, and went away—I still continued to watch, and about 11 o'clock I saw Ball come out a third time, followed by the prisoner Davis (Ralph was then in the house—Davis had a parcel on his shoulder, corded up in a wrapper; I followed him, and was joined by another constable, Knight—we followed him to the Red Lion, in the City-road, which is a mile or more—he was there joined by the prisoner Griffin—I saw a parcel put down on the settle in front of the bar—Griffin went out into the front room, and Davis followed him, leaving the parcel there—they remained a minute or two, came in again, and the parcel was lifted on to Davis's shoulder, and Davis and Griffin went away with it into Norton Folgate to Mr. Burkitt's, a stationer's shop there—Griffin lifted it off Davis's shoulder, uncorded it, took the wrapper off, gave the cord and wrapper to Davis, and put the paper down in the shop—they were about to leave the shop, when I and Knight went in, and asked the young man if they had bought the paper; he replied, "Yes"—we said we were two officers, and should take the paper, being stolen property, and should take the prisoners into custody—Mr. Burkitt stepped up directly, and said, "No, we have not bought it; we might
have bought it"—we asked Griffin where he brought the paper from; he said from the New North-road, and that it was his father's property—I fetched a cab, and put the paper into it—Griffin said, "No, you shall not take the paper away; it is my father's property;" I said, "You will go with it," and took it and the prisoners in the cab to the station house—I then went with another officer to Fish-street-hill, and apprehended Ingram—I told him he was charged with being concerned in stealing paper from Mr. Fitch's warehouse—he gave me his address—I went and searched his lodging, No. 15, Hill-street, Clare-market, and found this blank memorandum book, which Mr. Fitch identifies—I produce three reams of paper, and this wrapper and cord.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Who did you see at Clare-market? A. A person who said she was Ingram's mother—I found the book in a box; it has Mr. Fitch's private mark on it.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. What kind of man in appearance is Ball? A. He looks something like a navigator; he is a very big man, and wears a white smock.
Cross-examined by MR. HIGGINS. Q. You asked Griffin where he came from? A. Where he brought the property from, and he said, "From the New North-road," and that it was his father's—I did not say, "Where did you come from?" but asked him where he brought the property from—I believe his father does live in the New North-road, but do not know it—Mr. Burkitt said he knew Griffin's father, and had purchased paper of him—the New North-road is near the City-road—Griffin repeated more than once that it was his father's property.
JOSEPH COMBER KNIGHT (City policeman). I was with Legg, and followed Davis and Griffin to Norton Folgate—I saw these reams of paper taken out of the wrapper by Griffin—I asked the shopman if he had bought the paper; he said, "Yes," but that was afterwards denied—they were taken into custody—I afterwards took Ralph on Old Fish-street-hill, and said I should take him into custody for stealing paper from Mr. Fitch's warehouse—he said, "I know nothing at all about it."
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. You asked Davis where he brought the paper from? A. Yes; he said first from a house on Bread-street-hill—I said, "Are you sure it was Bread-street-hill?"—he said, "I am not positive whether it was Bread-street-hill or Lambeth-hill, but I think it was a house on the top of Lambeth-hill"—I asked him whether it was his property, or whether he was sent with it; he said, "I have been sent with it by a man named Ball; he employed me to take it"—he said Ball had agreed to give him 1s. to take it to the Red Lion in the City-road, and that he employed him to do it in Thames-street.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. What time were they taken to the station? A. About 1 o'clock—I was on Fish-street-hill about a quarter past 1 o'clock—there were other persons there at the same time.
WILLIAM JAMES MITCHELL (City police inspector). On Thursday, 16th June, I saw Griffin at the Red Lion in the City-road—the prisoner Fitch was there, and I heard Griffin say in his presence, "That is the man I had the paper of"—I said to Fitch, "Is that so?"—he said, "Yes, I bought it of a strange man in Thames-street, and gave him a guinea for it"—I know Fitch in the neighbourhood as a porter—he does not deal in paper that I am aware of—I said I should take him in charge for receiving the paper, well knowing it to be stolen from the establishment of Mr. Fitch, and took him to the station.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Do not you know that a great deal of paper is sold in Thames-street, hawked about? A. No; Thames-street is my district.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did you ever see a man hawking three reams of paper in Thames-street, and selling it to a perfect stranger for a guinea? A. No.
Cross-examined, by MR. HIGGINS. Q. Do you know Griffin? A. No; he is not known to the police—I know nothing against him.
WILLIAM FITCH . I am a wholesale stationer, of No. 3, Old Fish-street-hill. This paper is my property—none of the prisoners are in my employ—I know Griffin's father—he is a general dealer—I should say Griffin has never come to my premises—I have missed a large quantity of paper during the last twelve months—I communicated with the police—the wholesale value of this paper is 35s.—this memorandum book has my private mark on it, both the cost and the selling price.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Have you known Fitch? A. I have seen him about more than once with waste paper—he has never offered to sell me any—I once wanted him to buy some waste paper.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. How many men have you in your employment? A. About twenty or twenty-five, and about twenty women; it is an extensive concern—I have only discharged one man in the last six months—they have not been constantly leaving my employ and going elsewhere, but some of the women have.
Cross-examined by MR. HIGGINS. Q. Do you know anything of Griffin? A. Yes, I know him to be the son of the old Griffin alluded to, who is a respectable person.
(Ralph, Ingram, and Davis received good characters.)
INGRAM and DAVIS— NOT GUILTY .
RALPH— GUILTY . Aged 38.
GRIFFIN— GUILTY . Aged 27.
FITCH— GUILTY . Aged 28. Confined Twelve Month
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK PHARO (policeman, P 248). On 19th June, about midnight, I saw sixteen people come out of the George public house, Walham green, Fulham—most of them were tipsy—they were shouting, cursing, and swearing—I told them to go away quietly, and waited that they might do so—I was alone—another constable came up, and we both persuaded them to go away quietly—they refused, and continued shouting, swearing, and saying they did not care for the police and no one else—on that I took one of them into custody, when the others assaulted us, struck us several times, trod on our toes, and endeavoured to get their companion away—one man seized me by the throat, and drove his knuckles into my stock—that was Morris Roach—I took him into custody—the others still assaulted me, and tried to take him away—we did not take out our staves—we struck no woman there—we did not drive the people to Lord Ravensworth's gates; we were driven there by them—there was no staff drawn—I saw the defendant standing on the path—she never spoke to me—we took our prisoners to the police office—the defendant's husband was in our custody, and there was no other witness there but the defendant.
Cross-examined by MR. RIBTON. Q. Was not she near her awn house? A. Yes, about ten yards from it—Lord Ravensworth's park is about sixty
yards from the George—I do not know who the first man was that we took into custody, but he is here as a witness for the other side—I know him perfectly well—he has just gone out of Court with the rest of the witnesses—the defendant was the only witness at the police court—I called no witnesses—there was no witness present, at the police court but me and the other officer—Mrs. Bowen keeps the George—she is here—the people were moving on very slowly when I arrested the other man—he was shouting and hallooing, and we had no means of preventing a disturbance without taking some of them into custody—I have been in the force eleven years—I was suspended once for a month, but was not out of the force; it is four years ago—there was a disturbance at North-end, I and the summoning officer were assaulted, and I struck a man on the head with my staff—he was in the hospital some time—he was not very nearly dying—he had a slight fracture of the skull, but I was reinstated without blame—it was not for drawing my staff without proper cause, for I had the whole of my pay back—the name of the other policeman is Holdenby—it was about 12 o'clock when the people came out of the public house—they were staggering about, but they knew what they were doing—they were able to stand—most of the women were drunk—they knew what they were about—I had my staff with me that night—I did not use it.
Q. Now, I caution you; I have got witnesses here; do you mean to swear you did not strike a woman on the head with your staff? A. There never was a staff drawn at all—I do not know Bridget Connor—the row was on Sunday night, and on the Thursday a woman presented herself at the police court, and showed her hand, where she said she had been struck by a staff—I did not see her hand, but I believe you will find that Mr. Paynter remarked that he saw nothing the matter with her hand—I know Mrs. Bowen perfectly well; I have not seen her here—I do not know who prosecutes this case, or whether the police authorities have taken it up; on my oath, I do not know that they have not—we had an attorney at Hammersmith police court, Mr. Ball; he is not the attorney to the police authorities; we took him there—there is no one here to-day to undertake the case for us, I never received an order from my superior to that effect—the defendant gave evidence first on the Monday, and she was put into the dock on the Thursday—she was not committed then, it was adjourned till the Saturday, and from then to the Wednesday following, when she was finally committed—I brought Mrs. Bowen as a witness on the Saturday, and she gave her testimony—I do not know whether she is here to-day—I also called Mr. Hartley's son-in-law, Mr. George Bowman—we did not subpoena him because he came and gave evidence for us respecting the disturbance—he is not here to day—we also called the butler to Madame Grisi, who lives at Lord Ravensworth's house; he is not here to-day; there is nobody here but me and the other constable.
MR. COOPER. The Magistrate bound over certain witnesses to give evidence? A. Yes
GEORGE HOLDENBY (policeman, P 313). I was with Pharo on 19th June—I did not see the people come out of the George, but I saw fourteen or sixteen men and women standing on the carriage road, using obscene language, and creating very great confusion in the street—they appeared to be drunk—we went up to them, and requested them repeatedly to go away home, and keep quiet, but they would not, and one of them was taken into custody; upon which they all turned on us with great violence, and struck me several times on the breast, and kicked me on my legs—I saw one of
them, Roach, attack Pharo, and try to rescue the man from him; and I assisted Pharo in taking Roach—I did not draw my staff that night, and I did not see Pharo draw his—I do not believe there was a staff drawn—I did not hit a woman, or see him do so—we did not charge the people at Lord Raven worth's gates.
Cross-examined. Q. You will not undertake to say Pharo might not have drawn his staff without your seeing it? A. I do not think he could; I had not my eyes on him the whole time—it is immaterial to me whether the defendant is convicted or not—I do not think I shall be promoted by the police authorities if she is convicted.
JOHN WILLIAM NICHOLS . I am second clerk at Hammersmith police court. On 20th June there was a charge there made by Pharo and Holdenby against Roach—the defendant gave evidence in favour of Roach—the usher administered the oath to her in my presence—I have my minute book here, in which I took notes of her evidence—(this being read, only stated," The constable Pharo drew his staff; J swear that;" and at the assignment in the indictment was that the defendant swore that Frederick Pharo and John Holdenby drew their staves, MR. RIBTON suggested that the indictment was bad, and could not be amended by the COURT, as such amendment would be matter of substance, and not of form. The COURT was of the same opinion.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
RICHARD SKELTON . I am a veterinary surgeon, and live at Lay ton, in Essex. On 25th June, about 12 o'clock in the day, I was out in my pony chaise, at Forest-gate, in the parish of West Ham—I tied my pony up to the iron gates of a gentleman's premises, within two yards of some cottages; it is a much frequented road, there are houses on each side of the gates—I returned in about a quarter of an hour, and missed the horse and chaise—I walked to Layton, which is about two miles, and then drove to Woodford, which is three miles, in another vehicle, then to Leytonstone, and then to Wanstead, where I found the prisoner in the chaise with two officers—I had given information to the police.
EMANUEL HARVIE (policeman, K 78). I received information, and went on horseback to the Green Man, at Leytonstone, and got there between I and 2 o'clock, and saw the prisoner driving a pony in a gig at a furious rate, of eight or ten miles an hour; but just before I got up to him he was going slower, about four miles an hour—I do not suppose he knew I was following him—as the pony got tired I got up to him, but he drove as fast as he could, and as long as he could—I called to a party who is not here to stop him, and he did so—I took him in charge, and took him back to Mr. Skelton—Forest-gate is not more than two miles from where I stopped him.
GILBERT M'MURDO (Surgeon of Newgate). I have seen the prisoner from the time of his committal—he is of a flighty disposition decidedly—he is in an unsettled condition; a flighty state—from the conversation I have had with him I think he thought he was doing a lark—he would not admit any wilful taking of the horse and chaise—I think he is capable of distinguishing between right and wrong.
Prisoner's Defence. I had come out of Ilford gaol that morning, there were two or three horses and carts round the gaol; I did not know what they were there for: I took a walk round Forest-gate, and had a pint of beer and a screw of tobacco; I saw the horse and chaise, and took a fancy to have a ride; I had a ride round the forest in the horse and chaise, a man came up and followed me, and I said, "You had better get up and have a ride," two policemen got in alongside of me, took me to the station house, and I was taken to Ilford gaol and committed for trial.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
GEORGE WILLIAM TRIPP . I am in partnership with Mr. Lainson, we are drapers. On Saturday evening, 2nd July, about 7 o'clock, I missed a piece of printed cotton from the shop; I do not know how it went—I received information, went to. Mill-lane, Deptford, with a constable, and saw the prisoners Jackson and Russell there, Crowley ran round the corner just as I got up—the constable took Russell, and directed me to go to the side of a drain about sixty yards off—I went and found the piece of print wrapped up in a blue handkerchief (produced); it is our property, and has our mark on it.
Russell. Q. Did you see me and Jackson together? A. Yes
WILLIAM LINES . I am a warehouse boy, my master's shop is opposite Mr. Tripp's. On this Saturday evening, I was at my master's window, and saw Russell try to take a piece of print from outside Mr. Tripp's lobby—I had not known him before, but am sure he is the boy—Jackson was by the side of him, and Crowley about fifteen yards off—he did not succeed—I watched for three quarters of an hour; Russell then came back, took the print, and gave it to Jackson; they wrapped it up in a blue handkerchief and gave it to Crowley, who put it under his arm, and they went away together—I told Mr. Tripp.
EDWARD WILLIAM REDING (police-sergeant, 6). About a quarter past 8 o'clock on this evening, I saw Jackson at the bottom of a lane, coming from the water side—I took him, and said he was charged with stealing a piece of print; he said he knew nothing about it—the other two prisoners were thirty or forty yards off, they both ran; Russell stopped, and I took him and sent for Tripp to the water side, while I kept the prisoners—Crowley was brought to the station the same night.
Russell's Defence. I was coming by the Kent-street water-works, and saw the constable with Jackson; I ran away, and the constable came and took me to the station.
(Crowley received a good character.)
CROWLEY— GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined One Month.
JACKSON— GUILTY .* Aged 16.— Confined Six Months.
RUSSELL GUILTY .** Aged 16.— Confined Nine Months.
MESSRS. DAWSON and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
Woolwich. On 26th Jane the prisoner came between 8 and 9 o'clock in the evening, she asked for half a pint of porter—I gave it her, it came to 1d.—she laid down a shilling on the counter—I put it in the till where there was only one half crown, no other shilling—I did not give her change, because Mr. Young a neighbour asked me to look at the money, which she had given me—he looked at the shilling, and I looked at it too—it was bad—Mr. Young said the prisoner had offered him a bad sixpence for half a pint of porter—he asked her what she had done with the sixpence—she said she had thrown it away—Mr. Young went for the policeman, and he gave her into custody—I marked the shilling, and gave it to the policeman—I am sure it was the same I had received from her—I saw the policeman take from the prisoner's hand a tin box, which contained a bad sixpence, and a bad shilling—he took her to the station.
JOHN RANDALL (policeman, R 337). On Sunday night 26th June, I went to Mrs. Parson's, and the prisoner was given into custody for uttering a bad shilling—she had a tin box in her hand, I took it from her—it contained a bad sixpence, and a bad shilling—I told her they were bad, she said she did not know it—I afterwards apprehended a man, and while I was searching him in a public house, at a short distance from where I took the prisoner into custody; I saw the prisoner had got a paper in her hand which she dropped, I took it up and found in it a sixpence—a female searched the prisoner, and found on her one farthing—I produce the money.
Prisoner's Defence. I wanted change for a half crown, they gave me two shillings and a sixpence in a public house; I did not know anything about its being bad.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MARTHA BOWEN . I am the wife of Thomas Bowen, of Charlotte-street, Plumstead. On 24th June, I employed Amelia Dible to assist in moving my goods from one house to another—I was changing my residence, my things had to be carried three quarters of a mile, or not quite so far—I had amongst other things, this hand basket—there were some gloves in it, and in one of the gloves there were three sovereigns—I had put them in the glove about a quarter of an hour before in the front room in the house which I was moving out of—there was nobody in the house but my husband and me, and this girl—when I came out I had this basket on my arm, and a clothes basket with some crockery in it—I put both the baskets down in the street, and took them up again after we had changed hands—Amelia Dible helped me to carry the large basket—when we got to the new house she said she was ill, and must go home—she had had plenty of opportunity of taking the money out of the small basket, when I put it down at the corner of a street—she had opportunity of taking it without my knowing it—my arm ached, and I was not looking at her—after the basket had been about a quarter of an hour in the new house I then looked, and missed the glove and money—I went to see if I could find her—I found her in the street, near her own home—I asked her for the money, she said she had never seen it, and knew nothing about it—I took her to my own home, and sent for an
officer—I again told her she had got my money, and she said again that she had not seen it.
Q. Before she said any more, did you hold out any expectation of mercy to her if she would tell you the truth? A. Yes; I sympathised in that way; I told her I only wanted my money—she then pulled the glove out of her bosom; there was no money in it—it was the same glove I had lost, and that the money had been in—it was about half past 1 o'clock when I missed the money.
JOHN SARGENT (policeman, 107 R). I was sent for by the last witness between 6 and 7 o'clock in the evening, and took this child into custody—I afterwards went to where her sister, Lavinia Dible lives—Lavinia was not at home, she did not return that night—I went about 8 or 9 o'clock at night; I searched her boxes; I knew Lavinia Dible lived there, because Amelia Dible said that she lived with her sister at No. 23, Taylor's-buildings, and that was where I went to—I searched some boxes there, and found 3 bonnets, I pairs of boots, 1 pair of stays, 2 dresses, and some other articles, which I have here—the next night I found Lavinia Dible at this No. 23, and took her into custody—I told her it was on suspicion of receiving a sovereign of her sister, knowing it to be stolen—she said she knew nothing about it—she said she heard that her sister bad found money and bought some clothing, but she was not with her when the articles were purchased.
HANNAH GREEN . I keep a bonnet shop, in Powis-street, Woolwich. On 24th June, the two prisoners came to my shop—I do not think I ever saw them before—I am quite sure they are the persons—I think it was between 4 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon—there was another little girl with them—Amelia Dible asked for a mourning bonnet—I served her with one—this is it (produced)—the price of it was 5s.; she paid me a sovereign; I gave her 15s. change—Lavinia Dible then asked for a mourning bonnet—I showed her one, and she purchased it—she then purchased a small bonnet—her own bonnet was 4s., and the small bonnet 3s., these are them—this cap front, and this flower she purchased afterwards—the front was 1s. 4d., and the flower 9d.—she gave me a sovereign, I gave her 6s. 11d. change—while they were buying the bonnets, there was a conversation between them—one of them said in presence of the other, that they had received a cheque for 3l. to go into mourning, on account of the death of an uncle.
Q. Are you sure who paid for the bonnets? A. One of them paid for one bonnet, and one for two, but I am not quite sure which—there was a pair of stays purchased, I believe, by Amelia—I dare say they were in my shop a quarter of an hour—these are the bonnets and stays I sold.
MARTHA BOWEN re-examined. I moved these things about 12 o'clock, it might be a little after—I missed this money in a quarter of an hour after, and then I went to see for the prisoner—I suppose I was two hours looking for her—I found her about half past 4 or nearly 5 o'clock—when I found her, I took her to my house, and there she remained till she was taken—when I found her, she was talking with two other young persons
Amelia Dible. I was helping this woman—she stood the great basket down, and said to me "You go home;" as I was going, I picked up the glove and the money in it—I went to the other house and filled the basket again—I felt very ill, and she said "You had better go home to your sister." Witness. She went backwards and forwards twice—when she first came to me she had one load without the basket—I then went with her and the large basket, and left the small basket at home with the gloves in it—I did not know the girl before.
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. CLARKSON and GORDON conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN EVELEIGH (police sergeant, R 44). I am stationed at Woolwich. I saw the prisoner some time before 13th March, at his home at Rushgrove-street, Woolwich—I told him I wanted him to go to a coffee shop to see if he could get some gin and tobacco—I said they were selling without a license—I took Sergeant Thompson to his house, I believe, on the Wednesday—I said to Thompson, "This is the man I was speaking to you about"—Thompson had some conversation with the prisoner about going to Rice's house—it was the same house I meant when I spoke to him first:—there was an arrangement made that the prisoner was to go to Rice's house on Sunday morning, the 13th March—the prisoner was to come to the station and meet Thompson on the Sunday morning—I saw the prisoner on Saturday night, 12th March, about 8 o'clock; I asked him if he intended to come—he said he did not know—I told him he was not forced to come, but he agreed with me that be would come the next morning—he said something about his mates hearing of it—I came with him to within about ten yards of the Marine Barrack gate—he there met his wife and went back with her—he came to the station on Sunday morning about half-past 7 o'clock—Sergeant Thompson and myself were there—I saw Thompson give him a small stone bottle in the station—he said something to him about his going down to Rice's coffee shop—he said that was the bottle to see if he could get some gin, and he gave him 1s.—the prisoner was perfectly sober on the Saturday night and on the Sunday morning—I saw the prisoner and Thompson go out of the door of the station together—I saw the prisoner again, I believe, on the next Saturday night, either in Powis-street or Hare-street—he said he went to Rice's coffee shop, he asked for a cup of coffee, and they told him they had none, but they would give him something better—he said, "I had four glasses of gin which was drank there, and I had another glass, which I put into the bottle"—and he likewise had a 1d. worth of tobacco, that he smoked a part of it there, and the other part he had brought away with him—he was quite sober—I saw him again on the Saturday afterwards, and he told me the same tale—this was on Saturday the 26th, the second Saturday after he had been to Rice's.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Are you engaged in this information business by your superintendent? A. No; I had not been engaged in laying informations for the Excise before—this was the first time—Thompson held the warrant—the first time I saw the prisoner was on the Wednesday before 13th March—I saw him at the station on Sunday morning—I did not see him again till Saturday the 19th—it was at that time he made the statement I have narrated, and he was perfectly sober—this conversation, when he narrated what took place at Rice's, was either in Powis-street or Hare-street—his wife was with him—I did not reduce this conversation to writing—I made this statement to Mr. Dwelling, I think, on the Tuesday before I went before the Magistrate, but I do not recollect the date—that was three or four weeks after—I did not communicate it to any one till I did to Mr. Dwelling—I had no occasion to do it.
THOMAS BARNES THOMPSON (police sergeant» R 12). Before 13th March I had information come to me on the subject of a man of the name of Rice, of High-street, Woolwich—I hold the warrant of the Commissioners of Inland Revenue—in consequence of information I accompanied Eveleigh to the prisoner's house in Rushgrove-street, Woolwich—that was the first time I ever saw the prisoner—Eveleigh had reported to me that Wall was willing to assist—I asked the prisoner if he were the person who Sergeant Eveleigh
said would go with me to Rice's to obtain some gin?—he said he would go—I said if he made up his mind to go he must let me know on the following Sunday morning, and come to the station to me—I explained to him the object I had—I told him he was to go to Rice's to obtain some gin—he was selling without a license, and I said he should give his evidence in Court afterwards with regard to what he had done there—he said he would go—at that time he appeared to me to be perfectly sober—on the Sunday morning I was at the station on duty—Eveleigh was there by appointment—Wall came between 7 and 8 o'clock; he was then perfectly sober—I asked him if he was prepared to go to Rice's; he said, "Yes"—I gave him a shilling, and a stone bottle—I explained to him that he was to go there, and if he could to procure some gin—he said he was prepared to go—this is the bottle I gave him; and he was to get tobacco if he could get it—when I gave him the bottle it was empty—he put it in the side pocket of his great coat—he had his great coat on and his foraging cap—Rice's house is about a quarter of a mile from the station—the prisoner went about a dozen yards in front of me—I did not lose sight of him at all—he went to Rice's house, which is a coffee house in the High-street—I saw him knock at the door, and go in—I placed myself within view of the door—he remained inside from half an hour to three quarters—I did not leave the spot that commanded a view of the door, from the time he went in till he came out again—when he came out, he came towards me; he joined me—I asked what he had done, or whether he had succeeded, and he said, "It is all right"—we walked on from there towards the dockyard—there is a station at the dockyard gate—as we went along the road, I said, "Give me the bottle;" and he gave it me—there was then something in it—I tasted the contents—it was gin—I went with him to the dockyard gate, and when I got into the sergeant's office, he gave me this paper of tobacco—he said he went to the door, and knocked at the door, and asked for some coffee—they said they had no coffee, but they would give him a drop of gin if he liked—he stated that he had four glasses of gin served him by Mr. Rice's boy, one of which the boy drank; and a glass I got in the bottle—I understood he had five glasses altogether, of which the boy drank one, and he had one in the bottle—he said he had a pennyworth of tobacco, which he produced—this is the paper of tobacco—when he gave me this account, he did not appear to be affected by liquor at all—I asked the sergeant for some sealing-wax, and be gave it me, and I sealed up the bottle with a button of Walls's great coat—I then folded the tobacco up; I put the wax on it, and Wall sealed that with his jacket button—I then went with him as far as the dockyard gate, and he went to the barracks—I had given him a shilling, as well as the bottle, before he went to Rice's, and when he gave me this account, he gave me a penny change—after I had sealed up the gin and tobacco he said there was a penny left out of the shilling—I saw him again a few days afterwards; he said, "How is this case getting on?"—I told him I bad reported the case to the Board of Excise, and I dared to say there would be a summons granted—I saw him again about a fortnight afterwards—I had not sent for him—he came to the station—he asked me how the case was getting on—I said to Mr. Payne, the inspector, "This is the man, Wall, Sir, in respect of Rice's gin"—I told the prisoner I had heard no more about it—(I meant from the Excise)—the prisoner said they had been to the barracks—he did not mention any name; he said they had been to the barracks to find out the man who had purchased the gin at Rice's, and they could not find him out, because he was at work in the garden; and that they had been offering any money to find the man—I do not recollect that he mentioned any name—Mr. Payne, the
inspector on duty, was present at the time—some time after this I served Wall with a summons to appear as a witness at the Woolwich police court—I think the information was to be tried on 28th April—I attended as a witness on 28th April—when I served Wall with the summons he said, "It if all right, I will appear"—on the night before 28th April, I went to Wall's house, Mr. Batten, the Supervisor of Excise, went with me—I saw Wall, and I heard Mr. Batten ask him if he had used any artifice to get the gin, such as having the stomach ache, or anything of that kind?—he said, "None whatever"—he was ordered to be at the George the Fourth at 2 o'clock on the following day, and he said he would—I saw him on the following day at the George the Fourth, when he was examined by Mr. Dwelling, where he was appointed to meet Mr. Dwelling.
Cross-examined. Q. You had a warrant under the Excise for the purpose of seizing contraband goods? A. Yes, I have the instructions and warrant, which I have received from the officers of Inland Revenue—it is my duty to give information; I have done so on several occasions previously—I never saw the prisoner before the introduction by Eveleigh—I do not usually obtain the assistance of soldiers, but any person that offers to give me information—I do not hold out to any person the prospect of a reward in the shape of a moiety of the penalty—I said to Wall the penalty on the tobacco was 50l., besides the gin, and if he gave information he would be entitled to a moiety of the penalty—I did not make that statement to him at an early interview, but some time after the information was laid—I did not tell him that before he went to Rice's house—I did not send Eveleigh to him—Eveleigh told me he thought he was a person who would go—Eveleigh did not tell him he would be entitled to a portion—when I had conversations with the prisoner I reduced the conversation to writing immediately afterwards—I took a copy of them on a rough piece of paper, and entered them in my book, on the same evening—I have destroyed the original—I have my book here—here it is—Mr. Eveleigh had a conversation with Wall—he narrated it to me the same evening, the evening of 9th March, the Wednesday before 13th March.
Q. On the Saturday night after Wall had been to Rice's, Eveleigh has told us that he had a conversation with him, and he narrated to him what took place at Rice's; how soon after did he narrate the conversation to you? A. He told me that Wall stated he had received the gin at Rice's—that was the next morning—this was after he had been to Rice's house—Wall was in Rice's house half an hour or three quarters—no person went in or came out during that time.
COURT. Q. When was it Eveleigh told you what Wall bad done, on the Monday morning? A. No, some few days afterwards.
Q. It was on Sunday Wall went to Rice's; how soon afterwards did Eveleigh make any communication to you? A. It was a few days afterwards, one day in the following week—I made no memorandum of that, I had had information before—I might have said to Eveleigh, "I know all about it, because Wall has been with me himself, I do not recollect it"—I put down what Wall said to me on paper, and copied it into this book.
WILLIAM KING (police sergeant, R 22). I am stationed at Woolwich. On Sunday, 13th March, I remember Wall and Thompson coming in to the office at the gate, about 9 o'clock in the morning—Thompson said, "I have employed this man to go to Rice's coffee shop to get me some gin and tobacco"—he asked me for some paper and some sealing wax—I saw some tobacco in a paper—I saw Thompson had a small stone bottle, and he put his tongue to
it, and said, "This is gin"—Thompson sealed the bottle with the sealing wax with the button of Wall's great coat, and the tobacco was sealed with the jacket button of the soldier's coat—Thompson held the paper, and Wall put the button on himself—I heard Wall say he had had four glasses of gin—he appeared quite sober—I heard him say about appearing as a witness—he said he should like to know a day or two before it was coming on, that he might get a day or two's leave, as he should not like them to know at the barracks.
Cross-examined. Q. How far is this place from Rice's? A. About five minutes' walk—it may be 300 or 400 yards—Wall was perfectly sober—he had no appearance of having been drinking—I was not there during the whole time of this conversation—I was not there by appointment; I was on duty.
COURT. Q. Thompson went with him to Rice's? A. Yes, and came back to the station, where I was on duty—Thompson was not on duty.
HENRY PAYNE (police inspector). I am stationed at Woolwich. I remember about the middle of April I had been out, and when I came in I found the prisoner, and his wife, and Thompson, at the station—Thompson said (pointing to Wall), "This is my witness about Rice"—I knew what Rice's case was, I had beard a great deal about it—on his making that observation, I believe I made the remark to Wall, "Well, you were able to get some gin very well, were you?"—he said, "Yes, very well"—he told me he had three or four glasses; he told me he also got a small quantity of tobacco, and he told me also that he brought out a small quantity of gin in a bottle—he told me he had heard that Rice had been to the barracks to endeavour to find him out; but he said, "I am working in the garden, and he can't find me out, and I will take care be don't"—upon that occasion he was quite sober.
ROBERT BATTEN . I am a supervisor of Excise. In consequence of information from Thompson I went to the Marine Barracks, at Woolwich, on 29th March—parade was going on—Wall came to me directly after parade was over—I asked him whether he was the person who bought the spirits at Rice's—he said he was—I asked him how he obtained it—he said he went and asked for some coffee, and was answered there was no coffee, but he might have a drop of gin if he chose—he said he was admitted into the house, and he had four glasses of gin, for which he paid 2d. a glass, and half a quartern he put into a small bottle, and brought away with him which he gave to Sergeant Thompson—he told me a boy in Rice's shop took part of the gin with him, and he had also 1d. worth of tobacco—I read Sergeant Thompson's statement to him; that at a quarter past 8 o'clock that day he went to the house, knocking at the door of George Rice—he asked for some coffee—the answer was he had no coffee, "You can have a drop of gin"—he went in the house, had four glasses of gin, at 2d. a glass, and he had a 1d. worth of tobacco, and a glass of gin in the bottle; the tobacco and gin I took from him—I read this to him, and asked him if that was correct—he said it was correct—I asked him whether he was sober at the time he bought the spirits, and whether he used any artifice to obtain it—he said he was perfectly sober, and he used no artifice to obtain it—I was at the George the Fourth on the morning of 28th April—I saw the prisoner there, and heard him give a statement to Mr. Dwelling—that was the morning the information was laid before Mr. Traill, the first occasion—I heard the prisoner give the information to Mr. Dwelling—it was the same statement he had made before me—I saw the prisoner again on 13th May, at the guard room of the Marine Barracks—he was working in the garden—I took him a summons to attend the second hearing against Rice on 20th May—he said he was sorry he had had anything
to do with it, for, being situated in the barracks, he lived a most miserable life with his companions or comrades; companions, I believe, was the word he made use of, and he would not have done it if he had known it.
JOHN HOLMES DWELLING . I acted as assistant to the Solicitor of Island Revenue on the occasion of preferring this information—by the statute it is necessary that there should be ten clear days' notice given before the examination—the first examination was on 28th April—I was in attendance—before I went there I went to the George the Fourth to take the evidence of the witnesses—amongst others who made a statement before me relative to the transaction the prisoner was one of them—I took the evidence that he proposed to give from his own mouth (reads—"On Sunday morning, 13th March, at 10 minutes past 8 o'clock, I went to the defendant's coffee house, in High-street—I found the door shut; I knocked; a man opened it; I asked for a cup of coffee—he said, 'You can have no coffee this, morning; you can have some gin'—I went in, and entered the front room—the man told me to come in the inner room—I went in, and sat down by the fire—them was a boy and girl there—the man said to the boy, 'Give him some gin'—the boy got him a glass, and he drank it—it was gin—he put down a shilling, and had 10d. change—he then had another glass, and paid 2d.—he asked the boy far 1d. worth of tobacco—the boy said he did not know whether ha had any, but he brought him some—that he had two more glasses of gin, he drank one, and took the other away in the bottle")—that was the substance of the evidence he gave me—this was on the morning of the day on which the first information was to be heard—he was in attendance; but on discovering that there had not been the ten days' notice given, it was necessary to withdraw that action—the defendant did not appear—in the course of the account that Wall gave me I did not discover any hesitation or apparent want of memory in his relation, not the least, and he was perfectly sober—the information was heard on 20th May before the same Magistrate, Mr. Traill—m consequence of what passed on that occasion, Mr. Traill ordered a communication to be made to the Commissioners of Inland Revenue.
WILLIAM NOKES . I am a solicitor, and live at Woolwich. I am one of the clerks to the Justices of the Greenwich and Woolwich division of police—I acted in that capacity on 20th May, on the bearing of the second information against Rice—Mr. Traill was the Magistrate—I have the information that was then produced—it is an information against George Rice for selling spirits and tobacco without a license—I produce the original examination of the prisoner—he was called as a witness on the part of the Crown—he was perfectly sober—the questions were put to him by the Magistrate, Mr. Traill—I took down his answers after be had been sworn (read—"James Wall says, 'I don't recollect going in the month of March last with Sergeant Thompson to the house of George Rice—Sergeant Thompson did speak to me a week or two ago, I believe about going to the house of Mr. Rice——I do not recollect going—I had been drinking for two or these days and I was quite drunk, and I do not recollect going with Sergeant Thompson on the Sunday, 13th March last—I have no recollection of going into the defendant's house with a bottle—I have no recollection of Sergeant Thompson giving me a bottle—I do not recollect coming out of the house with a bottle, and giving it to Sergeant Thompson—I do not recollect going down to the dockyard gate with Sergeant Thompson—I do not recollect telling Sergeant Thompson that I had had four glasses of gin, and Mr. Rice's boy had one of them—I do not recollect telling him that a glass of gin was taken out of the bottle—I recollect two or three days afterwards Sergeant Thompson coming to my
house—he began first—I did not ask him how the case was getting on—he asked me if I recollected about going to the coffee shop, and I said I did not—Sergeant Thompson then told me to say that I had had four glasses of gin at 2d. per glass, and then he would knock the rowdy out of them—I told him I should speak the truth when I came before the Magistrate—he also said that I was to say that I paid for the tobacco separate from the gin—I saw Sergeant Thompson again when he brought me the summons—I do not recollect going to the station with my wife to inquire about the case—I do not recollect seeing Inspector Payne at the station house—I do not recollect asking Sergeant Thompson how the case was going on—I have no recollection of saying to Sergeant Thompson that I wished the thing kept quiet, as I did not wish it to be known among my comrades—I recollect Sergeant Thompson giving me the summons, and I told him that I knew nothing about it, and he said, "O nonsense! we will have the tin out of him"—I went before that gentleman' (pointing to the solicitor's assistant)—'I told that gentleman that I had had some glasses of gin—I told him so because Sergeant Thompson said be would get the rowdy of them—I do not recollect sealing the tobacco with a marine's button, and giving it to Sergeant Thompson. "Signed, JAMES WALL."
THOMAS BARNES THOMPSON re-examined. I never at any time, from the beginning to the end of this transaction, told the prisoner to say that be had had four glasses of gin, at 2d. a glass, nor that then I would knock the rowdy out of them—I never said such a thing—I never said that he was to say that he paid for the tobacco separate from the gin—he never said to me when I gave him the summons that he knew nothing about it—I did not say to him, "O nonsense! we will have the tin out of them;" nothing of the kind.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you go yourself to the police office? A. I did, and laid the information myself personally.
(Charles Watch, colour sergeant of the 64th Company of Royal Marines, and James Abdey, sergeant-major of the regiment, gave the prisoner a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 40.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
NATHANIEL GODFREY . I live in the parish of St. Giles, Camberwell. On 26th June, about a quarter past 4 o'clock in the morning, I was alarmed by the barking of a dog in my house—I got out of bed, looked out at the window, and saw two men getting over the yard into the road—I sprang a rattle—they had a bundle with them, which they threw into the garden adjoining, and ran away—I could not see their faces—the police came, and shortly afterwards the prisoners were brought back by two policemen—I sent Charles James, my servant, into the next garden for the bundle—he is not here, but I saw him find it; I never lost sight of it—I examined the house, found the parlour window open, and the whole of the drawers ransacked—
that room is on the ground floor, but there is a flight of steps up to it—persons could get to that window with the help of the water-closet roof and the dust bin—I had gone to bed about half-past 9 o'clock—the window was then shut close, but not fastened—there was not the least aperture left—I cannot swear to the prisoners, but I observed that one man was taller than the other.
SAMUEL LEWIS (policeman). On this morning I heard the springing of rattle, and saw two men jump over the prosecutor's gate—the tall one had a bundle, which he chucked into the garden of the next house—they ran—I ran after them, and, with the assistance of another constable, took them—I told them they were charged with breaking into the house—they denied it—the other constable, who had Glover in custody, called out to me, and showed me a pair of sugar tongs, which he said he had picked up—the men had run by that spot—I am able to say that the prisoners are the persons who got over the gate—I only lost sight of them in turning a corner—I overtook them between 200 and 300 yards from the house—they said they had been bathing in the Surrey Canal, which is at the back of Mr. Godfrey's house—their hair was wet—I took them to the station, took off their boots, and compared them with some marks in Mr. Godfrey's garden, and they corresponded—I made impressions by the side of the marks—Glover's boots were very heavily nailed, and corresponded exactly—on Kingsley's boots there was a plate, which exactly agreed with the marks.
DANIEL DAY (policeman) I was on duty in the Clapham-road, about half-past 4 o'clock, and saw the prisoners coming towards town, in a direction from the prosecutor's house—in consequence of what Lewis said to me, I stopped them—they said they had been bathing in the canal—as we got near Mr. Godfrey's house, Kingsley said, "Here is something," and pointed to the ground—I looked down, and saw this pair of sugar tongs—I compared Kingsley's boots with the marks in the garden, and they corresponded.
NATHANIEL GODFREY re-examined. I was present when the marks were tried—my opinion is that they corresponded exactly; there were thirteen nails in the impression, and thirteen nails in one boot—this teapot is mine—it has been 100 years in my family, and has my father's initials on it.
Kingsley's Defence. I met this man; he said his mother had a broker put in the house, and he was going to stop out all night; I stopped out with him; we slept at a coffee-shop, and had a wash in the canal; the policeman came and took us, and said we had broken into the house; I said it was no such thing, I had not been over the bridge these six months; I did not run; I cannot, having had a sprained ankle since Christmas.
Glover's Defence. The policeman is swearing false; we never went as far as the bridge, and never were on that side of the way at all.
(The prosecutor stated that two or three witnesses gave the prisoners good characters before the Magistrate.)
KINGSLEY— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.
GLOVER— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Eighteen Months.
818. CHARLES COX, ANN COHEN, HENRY SADLER, JOHN SPICER , and ELIZABETH MERTON , burglary, in the dwelling house of Frederick Dunn, and stealing 1 coat, 14 pairs of boots, and 3 pairs of shoes, value 9l.; his goods.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
FREDERICK DUNN . I am a shoemaker, of No. 43, Gibson-street, Waterloo-road. On 30th May I went to bed about halt-past 12 o'clock—I was the last person up—I saw the house fastened—in shutting up the shop I broke a
portion of the glass in the fanlight over the street door—I left twenty-five pairs of boots and shoes in the window—I missed twenty pairs next morning, and found the glass doors of the window thrown open—I also missed a coat—the glass of the fan light was broken away more, and was lying on the pavement; a full-sized man could get through there; there was dirt on the shutters and on the fan light—I gave information to the police, and on 12th June I was taken to No. 5, Granby-street, Waterloo-road, by three constables—the pair of women's boots (produced) were shown to me there, and I identified them—I afterwards went to Johanna-street, and identified these other pair of boots (produced)—they are mine, and are part of what I lost Cross-examined by MR. MICHAEL PRENDERGAST. Q. All the property you have found are those two pairs of boots? A. Yes; I went in with the constable at Granby-street, and saw Cox, the boy Sadler, and Cohen—I saw the other prisoners at Johanna-street—we went there about half an hour afterwards, having been to the station first.
ALFRED SPICE (policeman, V 47). On 12th June, I accompanied the other constables and Dunn, to No. 5, Granby-street, Waterloo-road—we found Cox and Cohen sleeping in one bed, and Sadler on a bed on the floor—I knew them before, but had not seen them together—I found this pair of boots under the bed Cox and Cohen were sleeping in—Mr. Dunn identified them, and I asked Cohen how she accounted for having them—she said they were hers, and that she bought them over the water, in Petticoat-lane—I saw Blackburn find a jemmy between the bed and the sacking.
WILLIAM BLACKBURN (policeman, V 257). I was with the two last witnesses in Granby-street—I searched the room, and found the jemmy or small crowbar between the bed and the sacking; and under the bed I found a box with a quantity of duplicates in it—I afterwards went with Mr. Dunn to Johanna-street, and found Spicer and Merton; Merton jumped out of bed, and put on a pair of boots—I took them off her feet, and handed them to Mr. Dunn, who claimed them.
HENRY MORTON (policeman, L 63). I went with Blackburn to Johanna-street—I knocked at the door, Merton opened it, we told them the charge, Merton said she knew nothing about it; and Spicer said if he had known it be should have molled up, which means being with another woman away from these, because the girl made answer "If you had gone with anybody else you would not have had me"—between the bed and the truss I found this new boot (produced)—Spicer said he knew nothing about it; Merton said she had found it—I heard her tell Blackburn that she bought the other pair in Petticoat-lane.
Cross-examined. Q. How often have you seen Cohen before? A. Not very often—I took these boots in of her myself between 12 and 1 o'clock in the day—they are Wellingtons
Cross-examined. Q. Do you know her? A. I had never seen her before that morning—she asked seven shillings on them—I looked at them and said that they were new footed—she said "What do you call new footed?" and at that time I looked up at her and remember her.
I produce a pair of boots pledged on 31st May by Cohen, in the name of Ann Turner.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen her before? A. Not to my knowledge—it is a populous neighbourhood.
NOT GUILTY .
819. CHARLES COX, ANN COHEN, HENRY SADLER, JOHN SPICER , and ELIZABETH MERTON , were again indicted for breaking and entering the dwelling house of Mary Haines, and stealing 1 shawl, 2 brooches, 2 rings, 2 buckles, and 2 buttons, value 3l. 1s. 6d., her goods. 2nd COUNT, feloniously receiving the same.
MARY HAINES . I am a widow of Regent-street, Lambeth. On Saturday, 2nd April, I left my shop at 8 o'clock in the morning to go to work, I returned between 1 and 2 o'clock, entered with a key, searched for the candle and it was not there—I found the house locked as I had left it—it only contains two rooms—I kicked against this caddy, which was open on the floor, and empty—I had left it locked, and the key was in my pocket; it had contained 2 brooches, 2 rings, 2 pairs of earrings, 3s. in money, some buttons, and 2 buckles—I called a policeman; we went up stairs, and saw my clothes' boxes ransacked—they bad not been locked—I left them quite full of nightgowns, chemises, and other things, and found them empty—these articles (produced) are mine—my house is in the parish of Lambeth.
Cross-examined by MR. M. PRENDERGAST. Q. Do you live alone in the house? A. No; 1 have 8 lodger; she is not here, she is gone to Australia—I saw this brooch at the pawnbroker's, about a fortnight or three weeks ago—these buttons are for dresses; I have never worn them.
ALFRED SPICE (policeman, V 47) On 12th June, I went with other officers to Granby-street, we found Cox, Cohen, and Sadler there—there was a shawl on the rail of the bed—I asked Cohen how she accounted for having it, she said it was her own and she wore it—I examined the box, it has marks on it made apparently by a jemmy, and which correspond with this jemmy (produced), which was found by Blackburn in my presence—they are such marks as would be caused by an instrument of this kind.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you been trying it? A. I matched it on the same day; I am not a carpenter, nor yet a joiner or cabinet maker.
WILLIAM BLACKBURN (policeman, V 237). I went with Spice and Morton to No. 2, Johanna-street, New Cut, on 12th June—we found Spicer and Merton in bed together, and took them into custody—I searched the room and found a small workbox on the sideboard, in which were these buttons and these two buckles—I was with the other constables at Granby-street, and found some duplicates in a box under the bed, one of which relates to a brooch pawned for 15s.
RIG BY WARR KENT . I am assistant to Mr. Dickenson, a pawnbroker, of Nos. 82, 83, and 84, Lower Marsh, Lambeth. On 2nd June, the two female prisoners came there, and Cohen pledged a brooch for 155. in the name of Ann Turner, No. 14, Cornwall-road—I knew her before—here is the brooch and the duplicate (produced).
COX, SADLER, and SPICER— NOT GUILTY .
MERTON— GUILTY on 2nd COUNT. Aged 21.— Confined Six Months
COHEN— GUILTY on 2nd COUNT. Aged 21.
820. CHARLES COX, HENRY SADLER , and ANN COHEN were again indicted for a burglary in the dwelling house of James Biddies, at Lambeth, and stealing therein 1 coat, 1 handkerchief, 2 brushes, 8 pairs of stockings, and I hat, value 2l. 3s.; his property: upon which MR. HORRY offered no evidence.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
821. CHARLES COX, ANN COHEN , and HENRY SADLER , burglary in the dwelling house of the President, Vice-President, Treasurer, and Governors of Magdalen Hospital, at St. George's-the-Martyr, Southwark, and stealing therein 3 shirts, 20 yards of linen, 2 petticoats, and other articles, value 3l. 15s. 3d.; their property: 2nd COUNT receiving the same.
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
MARIA GREEN . I am matron of the Magdalen Hospital, in the Blackfriars-road. On the night of 7th June, I had charge of ward No. 1—the door was closed at half past 12 o'clock at night, it was not locked—I got up at ten minutes past 6 o'clock next morning, and found that door locked outside; I had to force it open—when I got into the day ward, I found the cupboard drawers broken open; I missed three or four shirts partly made, two petticoats, and a night shirt—the wristband of a shirt was marked "Smaile," and the gusset of a shirt "S"—they had been sent there to be made—two of the windows in the garden were found open, they had been closed the night before, they are about three feet from the garden—on the following Monday a constable called, and brought me these three pieces of linen (produced) which were in my charge the night before.
WILLIAM ROMAIN (police sergeant, L 14). On Sunday morning 12th June, I was at the Tower station-house when the prisoners were brought in—I went to No. 5, Granby-street, and there was no one there then—I found three new shirts, which are not identified, and these strips of linen with a name in pencil on them (produced), they have been in my custody ever since—I do not know whether any of the prisoners lived there.
ALFRED SPICE (policeman, V 47). I produce a crowbar found under the bed at No. 5, Granby-street, in which Cox and Cohen were sleeping, I saw Blackburn find it there—Sadler was sleeping in another bed, this crow-bar corresponds with the marks on a piece of wood produced by a gentleman from the Magdalen, who is not here to-day; he was yesterday, it was taken off the door of the cupboard.
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. This house is a common lodging house, is it not? A. I suppose so; there are a large quantity of thieves in the same street, but I am a stranger there.
RIGBY WARR KENT . I am in the employ of Mr. Dickenson, a pawnbroker, of No. 82, Lower Marsh, Lambeth—I produce a petticoat and a shirt, pawned on 10th June, by the prisoner Cohen, in the name of Ann Turner.
Cross-examined. Q. Has she often pawned these before? A. Yes; she is what we call a customer.
Cross-examined. Q. Was she a regular customer? A. She has been there before.
MART ANN SMAILE . I am the wife of George Smaile, a boot maker, of No. 59, Newington-crescent. I am in the habit of sending things to be made at the Magdalen Hospital—these three pieces of linen have my writing on them—I cannot speak to any of the other things—I have not given out things to any other house to be made.
Cross-examined. Q. You only know them by the writing on them? A. No, but I can safely swear it is my writing.
GRACE ROGERS . I live at No. 5, Granby-street, Walworth-road. I rent the house—Cohen took a room of me, and I have seen Cox and Cohen there together about three times, but I never saw them in the room together.
MARIA GREEN re-examined. I believe this holland to be part of what was stolen—there were articles similar to all these, and one piece was written on—I know this petticoat was in the ward that night—there is no mark on it, but I can swear to it—it is the property of Mrs. Shreeves, and was made in my ward—these things were all in my case, as assistant matron.
COHEN— GUILTY of receiving.
COX and SADLER— NOT GUILTY .
JAMES LAURENCE . I am a zinc manufacturer, of York-place, Lambeth. On 6th June, about 8 o'clock in the evening, I missed a coat and waistcoat from my desk—I had seen them safe there at 12 o'clock in the day—in the pocket of the coat was a rule and some letters, and in the waistcoat a knife and a latch key—the desk was at the back of the shop.
ALFRED SPICE (policeman, V 47). I found Cohen in a back room at No. 5, Granby-street, and took her to the station—Cox and Cohen were in one bed, and Sadler in another—this was on Sunday, and on the Tuesday I found a key in a cupboard in that room.
HENRY MORTON (policeman). I was present when the prisoner was taken—Cox was in bed; I searched him at the station, and found this pen knife; he said it was his, and told me to take care of it—I found this rule on the mantelpiece.
Cross-examined. Q. Can you tell me the maker's name? A. No—I believe there is a name on it, but cannot say positively.
COX— GUILTY .
SADLER— NOT GUILTY .
COHEN— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
(Cox was further charged with having been before convicted.)
JAMES DENDY (policeman, L 27). I produce a certificate—(read—Surrey Sessions, September, 1852; Charles Smith, convicted of stealing leaden pipe, fixed to a building—Confined four months)—I was present—Cox is the person—I had him in custody.
GUILTY. † Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.
823. WILLIAM KING and JAMES PHILLIPS, alias RICHARD PALMER , burglary in the dwelling house of Luke Riley, at St. Mary Newington, and stealing therein 1 pair of boots, 1 pair of slippers, and 1 sheet, value 14s.; his goods; 2 counterpanes, 10s.; of John Hilyard; and 1 shawl, 8s.; of Ann Mahony.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD SEWELL . I am a hatter, of No. 3, Union-terrace, Horsemonger-lane; the back of my house is in a direct line behind Mr. Riley's house, in Horsemonger-lane. On 30th June, about 4 o'clock in the morning, I was looking out of my window, and saw the two prisoners at the back of the house adjoining Mr. Riley's—they came out of a privy, and ascended a wall into the back of Mr. Riley's garden—one disappeared very shortly after he got over the wall—he went towards Mr. Riley's house; the other remained in my sight on something elevated—he was moving about cautiously—one of them handed the other a bundle over the wall from Mr. Riley's garden—I tapped at the window, and they got over the wall and walked deliberately up the garden, a distance of 100 yards, directly opposite my window; I had a full view of his face; one of them then had no shoes—they got into the main street and turned to the right, and as one of them went along I saw a large hole in his stocking; I rather think it was Phillips—I told the prisoner to take off his shoes at the station, and there was a hole in his stocking.
ANN MAHONY . I am servant to Luke Riley, of No. 3, Montague-place, Horsemonger-lane in the night of 30th June I saw the house fastened—next morning the police came, and showed me a bundle containing these articles (produced)—the slippers and boots are my master's; the counterpane belongs to Mr. Hilyard, who was lodging up stairs—the shawl is mine—they were all in the house the day before.
THOMAS GARDNER (police sergeant, M 23). On Wednesday night, 28th June, I saw the prisoners in company in Brunswick-street a few minutes before 12 o'clock, going in a direction of where the robbery was committed, about 200 yards from the house.
GEORGE WILDING (policeman, M 276). In consequence of information, I took the prisoner in St. Andrew's-road—King had this pair of boots in his pocket—I asked them where they came from; King said he came from Kent-street—I asked him where he was going, and he said, "To the London-road"—it was about five minutes to 6 o'clock in the morning—I told them the charge; they made no observation—I found the bundle lying on some leads in Mr. Riley's yard—Phillips had a hole in his stocking—I found the back door of the house open, but did not see how it had been opened.
KING— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
PHILLIPS— GUILTY . He was further charged with having been before convicted.
THOMAS GARDNER (policeman), I produce a certificate—(read: Richard Palmer', convicted at the Surrey Sessions, Oct. 1852, of stealing a handkerchief from the person; confined six months and once privately whipped)—I was present, Phillips is the person.
GUILTY † Aged 20.— Transported for Seven Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoners.)
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS WEBB . I live at No. 3, Kenaston-row, in the parish of St. Mary Magdelene. On Saturday, 2nd July, I went to bed about 10 minutes to 11 o'clock, leaving the house safe, but the staircase window was about two inches up for the draught, being summer time; that window could be approached by getting over the gardens, and into the water closet, when they could easily push the window open—about a quarter to 3 o'clock, I was out of bed, and heard a window pushed up or down—I immediately heard foot-steps on the stairs, and thought it was my lodger—I saw the handle of my room door move; I opened the door, and saw two persons in the passage, the prisoner is one, I am positive of that—they had their boots in their hands—they ran to the street door, pulled the lock back, and ran out; they threw their boots over the iron railings, and jumped over themselves—I lost nothing—I ran out in my shirt, and saw them both until they came to the end of Paulin-street, where I lost sight of one of them—I saw the constable Duff, told him what was the matter, and went back again—after a time, Duff came back with the prisoners, and I recognised him as one of the persons
Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. Wereyoulooking out at the front window? A. No, the back—my room is on the ground floor—when I opened the door the men rushed along the passage—I saw the prisoner's face when he was opposite my door—he had a hat on—his hair was curled as it is now.
HENRY JUST (policeman, M 219). On Sunday morning, 3rd July, I was on duty in Great George-street, Bermondsey, and heard a cry of "Stop thief!"—it was 10 minutes or a quarter-before 3 o'clock—I saw the prosecutor run out of Little George-street in his shirt—he gave me information—I saw a man running, but lost sight of him at the corner of Maltby-street about 200 yards from the spot, and about a quarter of a mile from the prosecutor's house—I cannot swear to the prisoner—other constables came, and I gave them directions—I put a constable to watch, went into the dust yard, and found the prisoner in a ditch there, which is alongside the sewer—I said, "There you are"—he said, "Here I am; I am very sorry; I never came out to do a dishonest act before. "
Cross-examined, Q. How long was it from the time you heard the cry of "Police!" till you found the prisoner? A. Five minutes at the outside—he was in a stooping position in the ditch—he rose up when I was about seven yards from him—he was not drunk or worse for liquor—there was not the slightest appearance of his having been drinking—the position in which he was was that of a person who was performing an act of nature, but he had not his trowsers down—I make no mistake about what he said—it was not, "I never came out of doors to do an indecent act before," but a "dishonest act. "
MR. HORRY. Q. Did the person, whoever he was, go in the direction of the dust yard? A. Yes; it was in consequence of what I observed that I went into the dust yard—I knew the ground, and knew that he could not get out without being seen by the other constables—he appeared excited and flurried—he was in a stooping position; he could not lie—his clothes were fastened in the usual way.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN BEECH . I am a leather manufacturer at Bermondsey. On 16th June the prisoner came about 11 o'clock in the morning to my warehouse—he purchased some white leather pieces for making balls, which came to 4s. 4d.—he paid me with two half crowns—I gave him change, and he went away—I tried the half crowns immediately after he was gone, and they were both bad—I went after the prisoner, but could not see him—I marked the half crowns, and locked them up in my desk—they have been in my possession ever since.
WILLIAM BEECH . I am partner with the last witness. On 21st June the prisoner came to our manufactory—I served him with some leather, which came to 4s. 4d.—he paid me eight sixpences and 4d. in copper—the whole of the eight sixpences were bad—I tried them between my teeth and bent them—I went and brought the prisoner back—he had only just got outside the gates of the manufactory—I sent for a policeman, and gave him in charge.
JOHN RAIN (policeman, M 73). I received charge of the prisoner on 21st June from the last witness—I found in the prisoner's waistcoat pocket three bad sixpences, a half sovereign, and 1d.—I took him to the station, and found four bad sixpences in his cap—these are the eight sixpences I received from Mr. Beech—these are what I found in his waistcoat, and these are the four that were in his cap—the half sovereign and 1d. were good.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . I am Inspector of coin to the Royal Mint. These half crowns are bad, and from the same mould—the eight sixpences are bad, three from one mould and five from another—the three sixpences found in his pocket are bad and from the same mould as the three of the eight—the four sixpences found in his cap are bad, three of them are from the same mould as the three of the eight, and one is from the same mould as the five of the eight.
Prisoner's Defence. I am a toy maker; I had the misfortune to take the sixpences and half crowns from a man.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Eighteen Months.
MESSRS. SCRIVEN and POLAND conducted the Prosecution.
JANE KERSLEY . My husband keeps a chandler's shop in Holland-street, Blackfriars. On 6th June the prisoner came for some tobacco—I served him—he gave me a shilling—I gave him a sixpence and 4 1/2 d. in change, and he left the shop—I put the shilling into the till where there was no other shilling—it remained there till my husband came home from work—I gave it to him between 7 and 8 o'clock—he gave it me back at 10 o'clock the same evening—I then saw that it was bent—I put it into the till—on 8th June the prisoner came again about half past 5 o'clock for a loaf and some tea and sugar and tobacco—he gave me a half crown—I took it to a public house, and they told me it was bad—it was not out of my possession—I went back to my shop—I found the prisoner there—I told him it was bad, and that he had given me a bad shilling on the Monday before—he said the half crown was not bad, and asked if I would allow him to leave his coat while he went and got change for it—he endeavoured to push out of the door—I tried to prevent him, and he pulled my dress out of the gathers, but a gentleman who was coming by pushed him in and kept him till the constable came—I gave the shilling and the half crown to the officer.
JAMES KERSLEY . On Monday evening, 6th June, my wife gave me a shilling—I put it in my right-hand trowsers' pocket, where there was no other money—I gave it to the landlord of the White Horse public house, in payment for some beer—he bent it, and returned it to me—I discovered it was bad—I am certain it was the same shilling, it never went out of my possession.
HENRY HOUGHAM (policeman, L 159). I received charge of the prisoner on 8th June, from Mrs. Kersley; she gave me this half crown and shilling—the prisoner said he knew nothing about the shilling on Monday, and he could bring witnesses to prove that he was not there on the Monday, and he was not aware that the half crown was bad.
Prisoner's Defence. I had some things to carry to the boat, and received the half crown; I was not aware it was bad; I was not in the shop on Monday, when the lady brought the half crown back.
GUILTY .* Aged 23.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY. Aged 55.— Judgment respited.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, AUGUST 15TH.